# Earbuds Round-Up



## ClieOS (Jun 27, 2021)

This thread is dedicated to Tom (@HungryPanda), our friend and fellow earbuds lover that we lost to COVID-19.

Please *DO NOT* PM me for any question.












Sennheiser MX985, Blox TM7, Venture Electronic Zen 1.0, Rose Technology Mojito.





From top to bottom, left to right:
Audio Technica ATH-CM999
Dasetn Mod M760
Dasetn MC5
Musa SP2
Hifikiwi (晨光M&G) 'Lyrebird' H1
Hifikiwi (晨光M&G) 'Honey Buzzard' H1
Ucotech ES1003

Tingo TC200
HiSound AS-Feeling
Pioneer SE-CE521
Sidy (BGVP) DX1
HiSound AS-Miss
HiSound AS-Charm
Boarseman MX98s

Panasonic RP-HZE70
Tingo TC-100
Tingo TG-38S
HiSound PAA-1
HiSound PAA-1 Pro
HiSound Living
1More金澈 (EO320)

Ucotech ES903
Ostry KC08
MrZ (MusicMaker / ToneKing) Ting
MrZ (MusicMaker / ToneKing) Tomahawk
NineWave Studio Pro
JiuShao E600
JiuShao E300






From top to bottom, left to right:
Blox MC2
Hifiman ES100
湖西小筑DIY DDM
Yuin PK1
Creative Air
Headphone Association 400ohm
AKG K319

FiiO EM3 retail
Apple stock (2nd Gen.)
DUNU Alpha 1
VE Asura 1.0 beta
VE Zen 1.0
B&O A8 (Earphone / Earset 3I)
Audio Technica ATH-CM707

FiiO EM3 (M3 stock)
BenQ Stock (Sennheiser MX500 equal)
Shozy Cygnus
VE Asura 2.0
Sennheiser MX760
Marshall Minor

Panasonic HJ329
Sovov S20
SoundMAGIC PH-10
AKG K311
Sony E888
Sennheiser MX985
Panasonic RP-HV600






From top to bottom, left to right:
M1N (水月雨) V5
M1N (水月雨) VX
Sidy KT100
潜69
潜39
潜25
VE Asura 1.0 final

Final Audio Design Piano Forte II
JVC HA-F130
Baldoor E100
Celsus Sound Gramo One
Sennheiser MX50
Beyerdynamic DP100
VE Zen 2.0 Balanced

Vsonic UU2
AKG Y15
Sennheiser MX581
Sennheiser MX580
SoundMAGIC EP30
Edifier H101
Edifier H190

Blox ANV3
Blox TM7
潜25 red/blue edtion
Edifier H180
Edifier H185
Audio Technica ATH-CHX7
Edifier H186P

Blox BX III (TM7 beta）
Rose Technology Mojito
CrossRoads HR2
CrossRoads HR1





Left to right:
Hifikiwi (晨光M&G) 'Lyrebird' H2
VE Monk+
Fareal (original)
Pai Audio 3.14 (PR1)

Sound Tuner's 'Queen'
TY (Hi-Z) 400ohm
VE Monk
MrZ (MusicMaker / ToneKing) TO300





Ucotech ES1103
舜仕01B (Extraordinary Sound ESP-01B)
Fareal 64ohm 1.0
Fareall 300ohm 2.0





Fareal 64ohm 2.0
AuGlamour RX-1
TY (Hi-Z) HP-400s





DaiK DK-宋 (Song)
MoonDrop (水月雨） VX Pro
PureSound (醇声) PS100-500Ω Extreme Edition (= Classic Edition) Balanced





T&Y Audio (腾阳) 16ohm
T&Y Audio (腾阳) 300ohm
MrZ (MusicMaker / ToneKing) TY2





Atomic Floyd AirJax Sport
HY耳机 (HY Headphone) HY-1





TY (Hi-Z) 32ohm
TY (Hi-Z) HP-650
K's Earphone 500ohm Balanced





Yuin OK1
bengkelMACRO Edimun V3





Sennheiser MX375
Rose Technology Masya
VSONIC VSD3P
Sony Ericsson HPM-62 (recabled)





Sanyo EAH-Z3E
1MORE E320 Piston Earphone
Shozy BK (Stardust) Balanced





Yinman HiFi (音曼) 醇净2.0 500ohm
Rose Technology 64ohm
Heavenly Sound Concerto





Koss KE7
Koss KE10
**** PT15





Z-sound
1MORE E1008 hybrid dual driver
Lenovo 500





道具工厂(Prop's Factory) 1E39
BingZu (冰族) 梅花 (Plum)
Yincrow (音可若瓦) X6





QingYin (磬音坊) QY-550 Silver
QingYin (磬音坊) QY-550 Gold
PureSound (醇声) PS100-600Ω Balanced
PureSound (醇声) PS100-64Ω





AKG K318
Koss KDE/250





AKG Y10
AKG Y16A
NTT DoCoMo P01 (stock earphone for NTT DoCoMo FOMA P901iTV)





Kube 2 (a.k.a EK2 or EarKube 2)
Orin Sound Orin-300ohm
VJJB C1s
Handel SS-300





K's (凯) earphone K64 (64ohm 福利塞)
K's (凯) earphone 300ohm v2
K's (凯) earphone 500ohm 轮回 v2





Astrotec Lyra Classic (Lyra 3rd Gen.）
Svara L





Hi-Z HP-314P
PMV B01 Aoede
Sunrise SW-Dragon 2





K's (凯) earphone K200
Shozy Cygnus(?) Limited Edition
FaShaoZhe (发烧者) M90





NiceHCK EB200
NiceHCK DIY PK2
Vido (原道) stock earbud





SeaHF (虫哥) 400ohm new edition
Yinman HiFi (音曼) 醇净2.0 150ohm
MoonDrop (水月雨) Liebesleid (爱之悲)





**** Tank
DaiK DK-Song(宋) High Impedance Edition 155ohm
OURART Ti7





**** Z&W
Aidex ADX-SII-10001 (a.k.a. NineWave NW-Studio)
K's 300ohm (latest)





Seahf AWK-F64
Seahf 32ohm (latest)
NiceHCK DIY Graphene





南飞科技 QY-888 (previously known as QingYin 磬音坊)
Walnut E1





Moondrop (水月雨) Nameless / 无名
潜韵 (Qian) 潜69 2nd Gen.
YinCrow RW-777





JTS WM-42
Plextone X30mw
Plextone X33m
Z&W Panda (PK2S) Balanced





匠音  双动圈平头塞 (dual dynamic)
Toneking Unicorn
调音师 / 宏韵电声 HY1000 (方丈)
Z&W Panda (PK2S)





Svara Pro
NiceHCK EBX





Benjie BJ-49
K's Earphones 'White Bell' (White Ling)
K's Earphones 'Black Bell' (Black Ling)
K's Earphones / FinalAcoustics Poseidon





BGVP DX3
Penon BS-1 Official


----------



## PharaohsVizier

Excellent work as usual. Sad to see that the PH10's didn't do as well as I hoped. Time to cancel an order.


----------



## ClieOS (May 29, 2020)

- deleted -


----------



## a_tumiwa

love this thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 , hope u will add cm700 to your collection in the future 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 already bookmark this thread


----------



## tetsu85

MX90vc?? what a surprise..!!


----------



## kjk1281

Nicely done! Thanks ClieOS!

 The subtle differences you described between the Yuin PK1 and CrossRoads HR1 are interesting to note if I ever decide to upgrade to high-end earbuds. Surprised to see that you own the LX90; I almost pulled the trigger once when I saw it for $20, but the design just seems too awkward to be comfortable or to get a good fit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, good to see that the SoundMagic PH-10 is a solid earbud for the price. I'd like to see them make a higher end open model, but the market may not be big enough to justify it.

 Finally, I don't think we'll ever see designs like the Panasonic RP-HV600 again. I should have gotten into this hobby sooner, as many of the Japanese companies had some rather interesting earbuds released throughout the 1990s.

 FAKE EDIT: Just realized that the HV600 was first released in Japan in 1991. See boys and girls, if you take care of your stuff, it will last forever, or at least 18 or so years. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Like a_tumiwa, I'll be watching this thread closely. Thanks again!


----------



## mrarroyo

Very nice comparison! Hope you add the OK1 and OK2 both are outstanding in their price points, with the OK1 the best bud I have heard.


----------



## ClieOS

IIRC, I bought my HV600 back in 1999, then it was boxed up and went to the storage room around 2001 for a good 5~6 yrs (I went oversea during those time) before I dug it up just yrs ago.


----------



## Drpepper

Hi ClieOS,
 I've always been tempted to pick up the PK3's,but I missed out on the group buy and never got around to it. I have both the MX90VC's and MX760, which you rate above the PK3s. Am I missing out on something not having the PK3s?

 P.S. anxiously awaiting Fuze LOD.


----------



## tstarn06

Another contender in the top two categories is the Hisoundaudio PAA-1 buds that come stock with the Amp3. Excellent buds, comparable to the PK3, but a little higher SQ across the spectrum. Unfortunately, not for sale individually, but I heard they may be someday.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drpepper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Am I missing out on something not having the PK3s?_

 

PK3 is unique in a way that it is very fun and engaging. Many actually find the kind of coloration to be great. Personally, I find PK3 to be slightly too fun and it becomes a weakness in some genre of music.


----------



## chicaman

Where is PK2 o.O missing?


----------



## james444

Well, I'm not so much into earbuds, but hey that's an impressive collection, LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Excellent overview for potential buyers with spot on descriptions, as always - thanks!


----------



## a_tumiwa

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chicaman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where is PK2 o.O missing?_

 

you can send it to ClieoS


----------



## ClieOS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *a_tumiwa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you can send it to ClieoS 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

x2. Send one to him so he can add it to the list!


----------



## Opentoe

How do these work? From the looks of them they don't 'plug' into your ear canal but just rest on top of it? No seal there, is the music ok?


----------



## DeusEx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Opentoe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do these work? From the looks of them they don't 'plug' into your ear canal but just rest on top of it? No seal there, is the music ok?_

 

Made my day.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Just think of Apple iBuds..


 My new MX760 (per kjk1281's advice, and several others) are very, very nice. Full, but balanced sound, great soundstage. The cable is a bummer though. Short one's too short, long one's too long....same problem with my SE530s...don't these earphone makers have any idea?... Although I'm getting used to it now....


----------



## kjk1281

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ClieOS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Quote:


  Originally Posted by *a_tumiwa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
you can send it to ClieoS 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 

x2. Send one to him so he can add it to the list! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

x3 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Opentoe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do these work? From the looks of them they don't 'plug' into your ear canal but just rest on top of it? No seal there, is the music ok?_

 

Someone help me! My sarcasm meter is broken today! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DeusEx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My new MX760 (per kjk1281's advice, and several others) are very, very nice. Full, but balanced sound, great soundstage. The cable is a bummer though. Short one's too short, long one's too long....same problem with my SE530s...don't these earphone makers have any idea?... Although I'm getting used to it now...._

 

Glad you're liking them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I agree with the cable, but just like you, I too am becoming accustomed to it. Sennheiser really needs to make a standard long-cable version.


----------



## lz1gjd

I think you should consider adding AKG K314P to your list of good earbuds, it deserves its place there.


----------



## kjk1281

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ClieOS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IIRC, I bought my HV600 back in 1999, then it was boxed up and went to the storage room around 2001 for a good 5~6 yrs (I went oversea during those time) before I dug it up just yrs ago._

 

Ah, sorry about that. You would have been 12 years old if you bought it in 1991. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But 10 years (even with 5 in storage) is still pretty good, so my point stands. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lz1gjd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you should consider adding AKG K314P to your list of good earbuds, it deserves its place there._

 

I'm pretty sure the list is only for earbuds that are in ClieOS' current collection. Since he doesn't own the K314P, he can't rank it.

 Of course, if you want him to review it:
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *a_tumiwa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you can send it to ClieoS 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## a_tumiwa

so, this is Multiple Earbuds Shootut v1


----------



## a_tumiwa

ClieOS, we are waiting


----------



## ClieOS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *a_tumiwa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ClieOS, we are waiting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

For what? I am not going to rewrite in a more detail manner. I am getting too lazy these days


----------



## mark2410

so are you saying the mx760 is better than the pk3?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mark2410* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so are you saying the mx760 is better than the pk3?_

 

I am. Through not as lively, MX760 sounds more faithful and less harsh than PK3. One thing about the top class vs. the rest is that they give me more of big can feel - that is, I am less noticeble to the fact that I am listening to earbud, if you know what I mean.


----------



## mark2410

hmm well i just ordered a pair last night, is it wrong that seeing americans in a huff about senn not selling it there any more made me want to order a set?

 seems vastly cheap to be getting top rating in your buds comparison though, like from reputable sellers in the uk for under £20 seems odd it should be in the same grouping as the pk1



 grrrr amazon and their 1 to 3 month delivery thing, so picked black at £22.40 to get them quicker


----------



## mvw2

ClieOS, ever give a listen to a pair of OK1?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mvw2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ClieOS, ever give a listen to a pair of OK1?_

 

Not yet. Almost wanted to get a pair last year, but it was out of stock on the local store and I ended up blowing my budget in something else. Since I am using earbud lesser and lesser, I question myself whether I really need another pair of high-end earbud


----------



## mvw2

I kind of see it as if I want isolation or not or sometimes if I want something shoved in my ears or not. It tends to be situational. I whittled my inventory down to just one for simplicity and ended up with the OK1. However, I recently ordered the Triple.Fi just to have an IEM to use when I want one. I tell you what. If you want to try out the OK1 and give it a thorough review, I'll send mine your way once my Triple.Fi shows up. Take your time and give it a good shake down. When you've had adequate time, toss them back to me. It'll give me some quality time alone with the Triple.Fis as I break then in and get used to them. I'd really like a solid review of these other then myself and my own bias by someone who's heard a wide array of hardware and that can give a decently unbiased interpretation.


----------



## mark2410

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ClieOS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am. Through not as lively, MX760 sounds more faithful and less harsh than PK3. One thing about the top class vs. the rest is that they give me more of big can feel - that is, I am less noticeble to the fact that I am listening to earbud, if you know what I mean._

 

hmm they arrived the other day and i know they were cheap but are you sure they belong in the top tier of buds?

 i assume the pk1 must be on a different planet from them then?


----------



## ljokerl

Yes, I have to admit that I prefer the PK2 to the MX760. Something about it just doesn't sound right. Yes, the MX760 is airy and has that big-can feel, but unlike the PK2/PK3 it seems artificially so. They're not done burning in yet, but unless there's a huge jump in smoothness I really can't imagine how they can be in on-level with the PK1. As of right now I prefer the PK2 and maybe even the PK3 to them.


----------



## DeusEx

+1. MX760 is incredibly airy. =0


----------



## ClieOS

Haven't listen to PK2 for a long long time (> 4 yrs), but on the topic of where MX760 should belong: I think there is no doubt the PK1 (and maybe PK2) sound better than MX760, but whether PK1 is $130 better than MX760 (I can find MX760 for ~$30 in big retailer now) is what put them both in the same category. Also, it is obvious to me MX760 doesn't belong to the next tier. Plus, if you consider PK1's requirement of an amp and the ease of driving MX760 w/o one (it is the only one in the top category that doesn't need amping to sound good), I reckon MX760 deserves its place on the ranking.


----------



## ljokerl

I am not questioning your ranking. On the contrary, I am very glad someone else can come out and say that the high end gear isn't always worth 5 or 10x more than the budget picks. I guess what throws me off is that looking at your ranking people will think the MX760 is a top-tier earphone, which it is not. Only when one considers the rankings to be price and gear-conscious does the high position of the MX760 make sense. I paid $15 for mine and would gladly recommend it to anyone at that price. A PK2 killer it is not.


----------



## ClieOS

Thus comes the problem of a simple ranking: there are simply not enough space to fill in all the detail (and unrealistic for doing so). Instead of reading the ranking and thinking that PK1, HR1, MX90vc, MX760 and LX90 are all comparably great earbud that have similar performance, the actual message is more like: PK1, HR1, MX90vc, MX760 and LX90 are all better than most other earbuds, and in b/w them, PK1 is better than HR1, which is better than MX90vc,... and so on.


----------



## a_tumiwa

any plan to create a diagram?


----------



## mvw2

I like what you did on your first shootout where you ranked the group by both raw SQ and then by value. I think it's a good way to look at products, both from an absolute as well as a relative term. However, it's typically good to provide both views together to provide a better sense of reality.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *a_tumiwa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_any plan to create a diagram?_

 

A diagram might be easier for the eyes, but I am not sure it will add anything new to what already been said.


----------



## mark2410

i think my ears just dont like buds, id forgotten just how horribly uncomfortable they are so i bought some slicsound things for them (thingys from sensaphonics) 


 gonna burn them in more i think


----------



## a_tumiwa

EKT Electronics
 i found that the shop is selling many uncommon series of Sony Earbuds,
 do you think this shop sell the genuine Sony earbuds?


----------



## ClieOS

Searching their Toronto address turns out to be a retirement home. Not very assuring if you asked me.


----------



## a_tumiwa

i found this review , it is said that the legendary Sony E484 is the best Earbuds by Sony, better than E888, do u know anything about this model??

Google Translate

 searching in ebay, amazon, etc... can`t find any shop selling it


----------



## ClieOS

Of course you can't find it. IIRC, E484 predates E888 and has been out-of-production for over 10 yrs now. In any case, don't read to much into old review - Those might be the best of their time, but I doubt they will be the best of our time. Earbuds' world sure changed a lot since the introduction of Yuin.


----------



## Sparky191

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mvw2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like what you did on your first shootout where you ranked the group by both raw SQ and then by value. I think it's a good way to look at products, both from an absolute as well as a relative term. However, it's typically good to provide both views together to provide a better sense of reality._

 

Tha would be cool. Though the prices differ around the world their relative cost to one another would be the same.


----------



## mvw2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *a_tumiwa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EKT Electronics
 i found that the shop is selling many uncommon series of Sony Earbuds,
 do you think this shop sell the genuine Sony earbuds?_

 

Looks like complete fail to me. Packaging sucks, layouts on the packing looks wrong, the product inside isn't even right. Example, look at the MDR-CD550. It's a completely different phone versus the real one.


----------



## RASeymour

Maybe we need people to take pictures of their ears to see if there is some consistency between people for whom they are uncomfortable, such as Mark above.

 I wear earbuds for hours at a time with no discomfort whatsoever. What is physically different about our ears ( I assume it is a physical difference as opposed to a philosophical one )?

 On the other hand I know that I have narrow ear canals and bi or tri flanges are completely out of the question. I look as some of those tri-flanges and wonder who has ear tunnels that big?


----------



## a_tumiwa

i am looking for the legendary sony earbuds mdr-484, do u think these shops sell the genuine one? the price is really expensive, 2950 Yuan (around $460?) , which one do u think the genuine one?

ÈËÆøsony mdr-E484 - ÌÔ±¦Íø


----------



## originalsnuffy

Buds matter to me. So I appreciate this thread. I have some IEMs, but I prefer buds.

 I agree on the Yuin PK3s. Great for the price. Since I throw buds in travel bags and pant pockets, I am reluctant to spend much on them. Also true for my two IEMs.

 I like my old Sennheisers (MX 400s I think). I have an old mid-range pair of Sonys somewhere that are not bad. But generally I grab the Yuins when I can.

 Did Apple improve the ibuds? The ones that I have listened to generally sound quite shrill to me. Hey, I like a bargain (as in included with your toys so basically free) so it would be great if they were even half way decent.


----------



## maporter

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that this, and all of ClieOS' round up reviews should be made it to a 'stickies', so they always appear that the top of the forum pages - I personally find all of them useful and I'm pretty certain it would stop a lot of the endless questions such as:

_'Please advise me of the best IEM's, Earbuds etc'...._

 Can someone make it happen, please, please, please....


----------



## a_tumiwa

i don`t think admin or mod want to sticky this, even though this thread is very usefull and great, but sound quality is subjective thing


----------



## Pappucho

I've got a pair of E484's that could be auditioned for review purposes if there's any interest. ClieOS, I've just sent you a PM.....


----------



## a_tumiwa

Pappucho, can you take the picture of E484`s box pls??


----------



## Noir7

guys got a suggestion between senns mx 460-560 and akg k311-313-315-317? im thinking to try an earbud for casual listening.


----------



## Sparky191

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Noir7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_guys got a suggestion between senns mx 460-560 and akg k311-313-315-317? im thinking to try an earbud for casual listening._

 

I thought the MX 760 was good bit better then the 460. The 560 I've not heard. I found the 760 a pain with massive connector in the middle. won't wrap around anything and pulls the cable with the weight. Also on all the Senns the cable always tangle far worse then the Sony EX 082 I'd had. Probably the 660 is a good compromise. The AKG I've not heard.


----------



## kurtzi

This thread reminds me of the times before I discovered IEM/canalphones and Senn MX or AKG buds used to be my main portable phones in rotation with the PX100. Now I really cannot stand the lack of isolation and bass impact of earbuds.

 Many thanks for sharing!

 Regards
 K.


----------



## Sparky191

There are times when you can't be in isolation. You need to hear external sounds.


----------



## kjk1281

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sparky191* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought the MX 760 was good bit better then the 460. The 560 I've not heard. I found the 760 a pain with massive connector in the middle. won't wrap around anything and pulls the cable with the weight. Also on all the Senns the cable always tangle far worse then the Sony EX 082 I'd had. Probably the 660 is a good compromise. The AKG I've not heard._

 

Agreed on both the MX760 being much better than the MX460 and the annoyance of the MX760's connectors. I hope Sennheiser is working on some new earbuds...

 Not sure if this is helpful, but here's a link to my old comparison review between some of Sennheiser's current line of earbuds. The MX660 may be a good compromise but there is a drop noticeable decrease in sound quality compared to the MX760.


----------



## Sparky191

I forgot to say I've only got the 360, 460 and 760. Oh and my old MX500's. 

 The 760 is much better than all of them. But the cable is annoying.


----------



## a_tumiwa

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Noir7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_guys got a suggestion between senns mx 460-560 and akg k311-313-315-317? im thinking to try an earbud for casual listening._

 

vote for mx760


----------



## Noir7

hmm thanks for the input, maybe i'll try looking at mx460 or akg k311 for budget, mx 760 seems to expensive just for a casual usage.
 btw that mx460 are better than standard apple earbuds right?


----------



## barleyguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kurtzi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This thread reminds me of the times before I discovered IEM/canalphones and Senn MX or AKG buds used to be my main portable phones in rotation with the PX100. Now I really cannot stand the lack of isolation and bass impact of earbuds.

 Many thanks for sharing!

 Regards
 K._

 

The lack of isolation is a good point. But the Yuin PK series does not in any way lack bass impact. They have real bass, and have the impact that feels like it's at the forehead, similar to an IEM. A rare thing with earbuds, but it's there.


----------



## Sparky191

Apple ear buds have meant to improved over time. So there may be different versions. The ones I heard I few years ago were woeful. The ones with my 2G Touch I've not listened to. The ones with a 2G Shuffle we have here, I thought weren't as bad as I remembered, but they weren't good either. I've not directly compared them with the senns I have. I might do that this week. The 460 should be better.


----------



## a_tumiwa

for me, mx460 is still better than apple earbuds (don`t know what version of ibuds, they all looks same physically)


----------



## DeusEx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sparky191* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_= I found the 760 a *pain with massive connector* in the middle. won't wrap around anything and pulls the cable with the weight. Also on all the Senns the cable always* tangle far worse* then the Sony EX 082 I'd had._

 

+1. You can't have it all...one of the reasons my 760s are assigned to bedside duty.


----------



## ClieOS

To my knowledge, there are two generations of iBud. I am not sure who OEM the first gen., but the 2nd gen. comes from the same series as MX500, OEM'ed by Foster Japan. This is why they share a very close sound signature as MX500.


----------



## Noir7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ClieOS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To my knowledge, there are two generations of iBud. I am not sure who OEM the first gen., but the 2nd gen. comes from the same series as MX500, OEM'ed by Foster Japan. This is why they share a very close sound signature as MX500._

 

wow thats sounds interesting, haven't heard about foster jp but seeing that the senns also have an oem version from them it give me impression that not all senns product are their actual built?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Noir7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wow thats sounds interesting, haven't heard about foster jp but seeing that the senns also have an oem version from them it give me impression that not all senns product are their actual built?_

 

Now this is just pure rumor: I heard that the reason why there are very high quality IE8 clone in the market is because, when Senn. wanted to find OEM for their IE series, they sent out a few mold to different manufacturers and some of these mold didn't make their way back (guess where it goes? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)

 Also, a few years back I heard there was a dispute on PX100 quality control b/w Senn and its Chinese OEM.

 Don't be shock if people tell you that most headphone in the world are made in one province in China, cause it might very well be true.


----------



## Noir7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ClieOS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now this is just pure rumor: I heard that the reason why there are very high quality IE8 clone in the market is because, when Senn. wanted to find OEM for their IE series, they sent out a few mold to different manufacturers and some of these mold didn't make their way back (guess where it goes? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 Also, a few years back I heard there was a dispute on PX100 quality control b/w Senn and its Chinese OEM.

 Don't be shock if people tell you that most headphone in the world are made in one province in China, cause it might very well be true._

 

yeah i wouldn't shock by its "made in china" thing since most mass product items are built in china factory anyway regardless which brand it comes from.

 oh well maybe i'll just try the mx 460 first, besides the reason for me to hunt down an earbud is only for my own curiosity.
 lately i've got a new phone its samsung valencia (C6625) it shipped with standard stereo handsfree, its an earbud which i dont know what type is it and im quite surprise by its sounding. it have good bass response without sacrificing the mid and high, the bass isn't muddy i can feel the thumping it fast and clear the mid are ok overall the bgm and the vocal are quite clear even though i cant compare to my SE210 but definitly better than my (late) apple earbud.


----------



## a_tumiwa

can u show us the picture of that stock earbuds?


----------



## Noir7

sure thing, here it is a little bit blurry


----------



## Noir7

now that i've got the mx 460 and compare it with these samsung buds....... i may not judge the mx 460 till i burn in (quite comparable since those samsung buds aren't burn in either) but out of the box with the foam on the mx 460 sound warmer, it doesnt have the fast bass response and the soundstage are better than samsung buds but still it doesn't have the... what u call it "i can feel the music beat clearer"


----------



## Sparky191

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Noir7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hmm thanks for the input, maybe i'll try looking at mx460 or akg k311 for budget, mx 760 seems to expensive just for a casual usage.
 btw that mx460 are better than standard apple earbuds right?_

 

After a bit of digging I found I have the following. Apple buds, Senn MX360/460/500/760. I gave them a quick 2 mins listen and my unscientific opinion is as follows.

 The Apple buds are ok, not as tinny as I remember, maybe that was a earlier model. Usable, but a little bit muddy, but surprisingly musical. The MX360 and MX500 are a tiny bit better, being clearer. But significantly better then all of those are the MX460. Big jump in quality. Much better bass and clarity in everything. I wouldn't get anything less than the MX460. The MX760 is a another jump better than the MX460. 

 I also have these Denon C351 and Sony Ericsson HPM-70. The Denon C351 just dire, sound weak and muddy. The Sony Ericsson HPM-70 is better not as weak but still muddy. MX460 is far better than both.


----------



## a_tumiwa

Tai, any plan to review Fischer Audio earbuds??


----------



## KLS

ClieOS, do you heard of Creative Aurvana Air? From what I have read it seems to be a pretty good earbuds for the price.


----------



## Sparky191

Whats the price?


----------



## KLS

In Japan, it is around 9000yen.


----------



## a_tumiwa

unfortunately, it is earbuds with clip, not a true earbuds, i dont like it


----------



## ClieOS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KLS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ClieOS, do you heard of Creative Aurvana Air? From what I have read it seems to be a pretty good earbuds for the price._

 

I have read a few positive reviews of it, but never did see one in real life. I was in Singapore few weeks ago and surprisingly didn't find one in all the stores I visited, which is weird consider it is the country where Creative belongs to.


----------



## KLS

@ClieOS, I asked the same question in http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/sen...burner-195209/, but since it is in the Headphone forum, I think it is better trying here.

 I see that you are using your MX90 with the foams. Just wonder what's the difference in sound with foams-on and no-foams.

 I have a pair of MX90 actually, but lost all the accessories coming with them...


----------



## ClieOS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KLS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@ClieOS, I asked the same question in http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/sen...burner-195209/, but since it is in the Headphone forum, I think it is better trying here.

 I see that you are using your MX90 with the foams. Just wonder what's the difference in sound with foams-on and no-foams.

 I have a pair of MX90 actually, but lost all the accessories coming with them..._

 

MX90vc is designed to be worn both ways (foam or foam-less). In the early days I use to use the flange / rubber rings as it gives better treble and detail, and sounds less warm and more balanced. The problem with that is the glue (under the rubber ring) Senn used to hold the transducer / grille hates moisture and it starts to deteriorate / disintegrate and turns yellow~brownish. So then my MX90vc is back on the foam again.


----------



## KLS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ClieOS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_MX90vc is designed to be worn both ways (foam or foam-less). In the early days I use to use the flange / rubber rings as it gives better treble and detail, and sounds less warm and more balanced. The problem with that is the glue (under the rubber ring) Senn used to hold the transducer / grille hates moisture and it starts to deteriorate / disintegrate and turns yellow~brownish. So then my MX90vc is back on the foam again._

 

Oh I have the same problem like you. In fact I have to clean them every time I used them because the gluish thing + earwax = something disgusting...It's fine then if you are not using the rubber ring anymore. I think I should get some foams for them


----------



## Br777

Has anyone heard any of the following earbuds.  I would love to hear some feedback on them.
   
  thanks
   
Blox TM5
   
Sennheiser-MX-980
   
Sennheiser-OMX-980


----------



## mcnoiserdc

well there is this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/492165/sennheiser-mx-series-vs-yuin-pk-series-6-earbuds-compared-and-reviewed
 There are more, there people comparing the highly regarded IE 8 with the mx 980, so it means they are great. If you search you'll find the comparison. 
  After reading much of these threads, I decided to go with sennheiser mx 880 which is cheaper and one of the reviewers said it was better than yuin pk-1 so I tried my luck as I can't afford the much more expensive mx 980
  Quote: 





br777 said:


> Has anyone heard any of the following earbuds.  I would love to hear some feedback on them.
> 
> thanks
> 
> ...


----------



## ClieOS

I do have plan to review MX980 but for some unknown reason the local Senn distro still has not received their stock. For now all I can do is wait. I have not plan for TM5 though.


----------



## Szadzik

Have been using MX980s for some time now and very impressed with them.
   
   
  Quote: 





br777 said:


> Has anyone heard any of the following earbuds.  I would love to hear some feedback on them.
> 
> thanks
> 
> ...


----------



## Br777

thanks.   thats kind of where i'm at too - thinking about just going for the 880.  the mx980 definately costs a bit much, though it seems to be regarded as one of if not THE best earbud.  Though what i really want is the omx980 because having ear hooks would be great for the context i would use them in, but of course the price is outrageous. 
  i too have heard that the 880's are still pretty darn good, and of course they do cost less, but im one of those people who always has that little niggle knowing there is a better sounding pair available...  and then of course there is the hassle of returning or reselling if they dont sound like i prefer...  oh the tribulations of an audiophile 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





mcnoiserdc said:


> well there is this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/492165/sennheiser-mx-series-vs-yuin-pk-series-6-earbuds-compared-and-reviewed
> There are more, there people comparing the highly regarded IE 8 with the mx 980, so it means they are great. If you search you'll find the comparison.
> After reading much of these threads, I decided to go with sennheiser mx 880 which is cheaper and one of the reviewers said it was better than yuin pk-1 so I tried my luck as I can't afford the much more expensive mx 980


----------



## X-Nemesis

Have any of you had the opportunity to listen to the stock buds packaged with the Sansa Clip+?  I've never been a bud fan at all but these sound pretty damn good.  I'm certainly no an audiophile so maybe that has something to do with me liking these but I'd surely like to here some of you who may have listen to these as well and can give some feedback in comparison to the buds reviewed in this thread.


----------



## maximon

New to the forum here but following some threads for a while now, this thread has my special attention because I've been using a Sony MDR e741 for a while now and more and more,
  after trying several cheaper in ear models, I love the sound these buds are producing!
  Very airy, open and involving, as I would describe them. 
   
  So now I am curious how these compare to the newer earbuds of this era. My estimation is that the mdr e741's have
  a respectable age of 18 years now! (bought them with a WM-EX302 walkman back then)
   
  Anyone here in the community still have these too or maybe a comparable model from that time?


----------



## Angelopsaro

I was always a fan of earbads. So i might grab some a pair. I was surprised when i saw that some of the most high rated from clieos cost like 20 euros!
  I especially like the mx 760.
  Is there a trap?  They r sold by in amazon, but not "by" amazon. This means that their genuinity is not guaranteed?
   
  Last. Clieos... why do you think earbuds as cheap as mx760 can keep up with pk1 or crossroads which cost 10x more and yuin is not a big brand like sennheiser. Maybe it should had been the opposite.


----------



## ClieOS

The thing about MX760 is there are simply tons and tons of fake out there. But of you can find the real one, it is a pretty good earbud to listen to. I won't say it beats the PK1 or HR1, though it was at one time Sennheiser;s earbud flagship. Ultimately the basic manufacturing of each unit isn't really that different between Yuin and Sennheiser But given Yuin sells much much less each year, the hidden cost becomes very very high, and so is the price. On the other hand Senn own a larger market and sell a lot more earbuds than Yuin, so they can sell it at cheaper price. It is the size of the economy that drives them into different sale pattern.


----------



## Angelopsaro

Quote: 





clieos said:


> The thing about MX760 is there are simply tons and tons of fake out there. But of you can find the real one, it is a pretty good earbud to listen to. I won't say it beats the PK1 or HR1, though it was at one time Sennheiser;s earbud flagship. Ultimately the basic manufacturing of each unit isn't really that different between Yuin and Sennheiser But given Yuin sells much much less each year, the hidden cost becomes very very high, and so is the price. On the other hand Senn own a larger market and sell a lot more earbuds than Yuin, so they can sell it at cheaper price. It is the size of the economy that drives them into different sale pattern.


 


  Yes that is what i thoughts so, but considering that brainwavz or other small brands can keep up with high buck for the money i am not very convinced 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I wish those mx 760 where sold by amazon . It would be a sure deal.


----------



## ClieOS

But you need to remember Brainwavz and other brand like it comes from OEM that also make and sell other models as well. Yuin has their own factory (and as I heard, a very small one) and make the earbud themselves. HR1 is another story. They are just trying to price it in line with their competitor. Here is another truth about earbud and IEM alike - beside a little variation on material cost, the lower end and the higher end of each company don't different that much. The whole point of pricing some really expensive while other very cheaply has more to do with the targeted customer and what they are willing to pay for it. This is essentially the basic business model of any luxury item.


----------



## 3602

Sennheiser used to have _many _earbuds. I have the MXL 51 as a replacement to IEMs. They used to make a line of lime-green sport earbuds. These things sound _extremely_ clear although this effect may be induced by the fact that they have little to no bass. Yeah, Basswind isn't helping.


----------



## ClieOS

This is yet another pair of earbuds I picked up from an electronic chain store just to get a feel of how consumer level earbuds sound this days. I am not going into detail on this one, since there really isn't much to say about it. If anything, PQ5 is more of a fashion statement than a serious earbuds. For $15 or less however, I guess you can't really expect much from Sony.
  





  





  
 Basically this is a very warm sounding earbuds. Bass is decently bodied but lacks a touch of speed. Mid is full and forward but often get overly thick especially when a little bass is called for. Treble rolls off early and feel overshadowed by the thickness of the mid and bass.
  
 Overall, PQ5 isn't a bad earbud for the asking price. But then again there are much better Sennheiser's options if you add a little more than $10 to the price tag.
  
 See first page for ranking.


----------



## 3602

At least the biggest PiiQ (the pink/black one) sounds better than Monster Solo. I call that a win.
  Also I don't know whether Sony deliberately designed these buds as gas masks. Come on. Played too much Stalker?
   
  EDIT: Oh the PiiQ microsite actually calls this one the Bass Masq. Skullcandy is catching on.


----------



## kanuka

after reading again the crossroads h1 and sunrise charm reviews and  their comparison with the pk1, i understand that the h1 and charm are slight better in vocals matters over the pk1. but which one of the h1 and charm are better?


----------



## chrislangley4253

any chance of you doing a review of the BeB "black buds" Clieos? 
   
  I feel they are slightly better than the PK3's and I'm very interested to know what you would think about them. They are only 25 bucks shipped.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> any chance of you doing a review of the BeB "black buds" Clieos?
> 
> I feel they are slightly better than the PK3's and I'm very interested to know what you would think about them. They are only 25 bucks shipped.


 
  I'll see what I can do. It is usually not the price tag that stops me but the shipping (or the lack of).


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





clieos said:


> I'll see what I can do. It is usually not the price tag that stops me but the shipping (or the lack of).


 

 Ah.. Good point. I sometimes forget you are so far off. If you think it would be easier with a middle man (I buy them and then ship them to you) I'd be willing to ship em off to ya. No S&H  Not sure if that is realistic though, I don't know how much it is to ship something over there.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> Ah.. Good point. I sometimes forget you are so far off. If you think it would be easier with a middle man (I buy them and then ship them to you) I'd be willing to ship em off to ya. No S&H  Not sure if that is realistic though, I don't know how much it is to ship something over there.


 
  Thanks for the offer and I'll take a rain check on it. I have two Hisound earbuds under review currently and let see how things go from there.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> Ah.. Good point....


 


 Just received the sample from BeB and you are totally right, the 'Black' turns out to be a major competitor to the PK3 even before any burn-in. At $25, it will get my recommendation as is. But rest assure the review will in later time.


----------



## Sparky191

Quote: 





x-nemesis said:


> Have any of you had the opportunity to listen to the stock buds packaged with the Sansa Clip+?  I've never been a bud fan at all but these sound pretty **** good.  I'm certainly no an audiophile so maybe that has something to do with me liking these but I'd surely like to here some of you who may have listen to these as well and can give some feedback in comparison to the buds reviewed in this thread.


 

  
  I have the mx760.  The stock  Sansa Clip+ buds seem to me to be move like mx500's, or mx460's. Not bad at all, I put them as decent. But not as good the mx760. 
   
  I had some mx95vc but I just couldn't get a good fit to use them, or even to test them.  So I passed them on. Seemed similar to the mx760.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Just received the sample from BeB and you are totally right, the 'Black' turns out to be a major competitor to the PK3 even before any burn-in. At $25, it will get my recommendation as is. But rest assure the review will in later time.


 

 glad that your ears are hearing it the same way! I thought they were pretty impressive out of the box too. I will be doing a complete comparo in a few weeks once I get my clip back. I like to listen to one pair for a week or so and then make a switch, it makes any differences jump out more. It will be interested to see how close our comparisons are. I still think the PK3 is good sounding, the BeB totally gives it a run for its money though. In time I'll post which one is actually my favorite between the two and why. 
   


  Quote: 





sparky191 said:


> I have the mx760.  The stock  Sansa Clip+ buds seem to me to be move like mx500's, or mx460's. Not bad at all, I put them as decent. But not as good the mx760.
> 
> I had some mx95vc but I just couldn't get a good fit to use them, or even to test them.  So I passed them on. Seemed similar to the mx760.


 
  I couldn't find the original question about the stock buds, so I just quoted this. 
   
  The stock sansa buds are pretty terrible. The 25 dollar BeB's and the PK3's both outclass the stock clip buds by a really great amount to my ears. To the point where I tossed my stock buds, I wouldn't use them even as a back up. The fact that you would compare them to any senn buds really surprises me.


----------



## bonglee23

+1 on both points. How the stock Sansa buds could even be compared to any of the buds discussed here is beyond me.
  The BEBs are realy really nice. My only problem with them is, I can't get as good a fit with them as with the Senn 580. But sound-wise they are excellent


----------



## Sparky191

Well thats what they sound like when I compare them back to back. Some of those low end senns are really not that good. I have the MX460 and Sansa, and MX760, and* *Meeleec M6 either on me or in my desk. Only recently I gave the MX500's to someone on the next desk. I really only use the  M6 and MX760's. The others are only backups in case I forget the main pair. Have you ever directly compared the MX460 and the Sansa's. People say the Sansa are muddy, but I don't like a lot of bass, so perhaps what source is used, or how its EQ'd  makes all the difference. I thought they were better than the newer stock ipod buds anyway. But thats not saying a whole lot. 
   
  That the BeB's and the PK3 are better doesn't surprise me as they 2 or 3 times more expensive. Theres a big jump from the MX460 to the MX760.
   
  That said I'm more of a low fi kinda guy.


----------



## ClieOS

Actually I just give two (not the same) of the stock Clip+ earbuds a listen. Surprisingly they are quite decent. Once of them are actually quite good - while I won't say it is beating PK3 and BeB Black, it certainly is close. In any case, both are good enough to be included in future review.


----------



## Sparky191

I vaguely remember people talking about senn having some involvement with the sansa buds. Maybe I'm mistaken (or they were) . 
   
  But if you have a clip+ say and upgrade from the stock buds to say the M6's or the MX760, if you've any interest in SQ you should hear a noticeable difference. If I do the same on my Mobile I won't notice the because my phone SQ isn't that great to begin with. The sansa's sound better than the stock iPod's too. But its not a huge difference. 
   
  I'm sitting here listening to my Clip+ with the MX760, and some classical and for me (for the price) its great.


----------



## ClieOS

Most Sennheiser lower end earbuds are pretty much coming from OEM, so I doubt they have anything to do with Sandisk, besides the possibility of sharing the same OEM.


----------



## Sparky191

Makes sense when you think about it. I don't think they sound similar either, but roughly around the same quality level. If that makes sense.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





sparky191 said:


> Well thats what they sound like when I compare them back to back. Some of those low end senns are really not that good. I have the MX460 and Sansa, and MX760, and* *Meeleec M6 either on me or in my desk. Only recently I gave the MX500's to someone on the next desk. I really only use the  M6 and MX760's. The others are only backups in case I forget the main pair. Have you ever directly compared the MX460 and the Sansa's. People say the Sansa are muddy, but I don't like a lot of bass, so perhaps what source is used, or how its EQ'd  makes all the difference. I thought they were better than the newer stock ipod buds anyway. But thats not saying a whole lot.
> 
> That the BeB's and the PK3 are better doesn't surprise me as they 2 or 3 times more expensive. Theres a big jump from the MX460 to the MX760.
> 
> That said I'm more of a low fi kinda guy.


 

 The BeB's run 25 dollars. I wasn't aware that senn even had an earbud cheaper than that. 
   
  Anyways, point of the matter is the stock sansa buds are pretty bad. large improvements can be had, with very little money.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





sparky191 said:


> Makes sense when you think about it. I don't think they sound similar either, but roughly around the same quality level. If that makes sense.


 


  makes sense


----------



## inter10

where is Sennheiser IE7 or 8?


----------



## Sparky191

Quote: 





inter10 said:


> where is Sennheiser IE7 or 8?


 


  They aren't buds.


----------



## Sparky191

Is there a link to the BeB's?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





sparky191 said:


> Is there a link to the BeB's?


 

 http://blueeverblue.com/products.html


----------



## Sparky191

Thanks I've never heard of them before.


----------



## bonglee23

Get them here, worked great for me: http://biolinks.webstorepowered.com/Earphones-Products/b/2998295011?ie=UTF8&title=Earphones


----------



## chrislangley4253

your thread is the only one i'm checking anymore clieos.. Awaiting your review of the BeB's


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> your thread is the only one i'm checking anymore clieos.. Awaiting your review of the BeB's


 


 It will take sometime as I have a few other reviews to finish first, including two HiSound earbuds which are both pretty good.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





clieos said:


> It will take sometime as I have a few other reviews to finish first, including two HiSound earbuds which are both pretty good.


 


  quite understandable.


----------



## smith

I have been using the BeB for about a week now and think they are a fantastic earbud.


----------



## ClieOS

BeB 328R added to the list. Check out the full review here.


----------



## kanuka

would it be a waste to buy the PK1/OK1 , as well as 150+ ohm earphones , if there's no intention to use it with a decent amp? how 'bad' will they sound?


----------



## ClieOS

Don't know about OK1, but generally speaking they will still sound pretty good, just not at their best. Of course this also depends on how good the source is.


----------



## kanuka

i'm looking for a new earbud
  i have the mx471 and the akg k312.
  both are great. the mx471 (as the 581) is overall better
  i'd like something brighter with more (or ar leasta bit more) fwd mids/vocals
  faster (i need more speed) and more detail
   
  any suggestions? more than one option would be better
  thanks


----------



## sofastreamer

which one will have the best pinpoint accuracy in imaging besides the yuins?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





sofastreamer said:


> which one will have the best pinpoint accuracy in imaging besides the yuins?


 

 Creative Aurvana Air, but not quite as easy to find now.


----------



## Angelopsaro

Amazon UK has stock of the creative aurvana and actually recent the price was quite low. They probably want to get rid of the last stock.
And ebay has a pair for $70
   
  WOW! i feel bad now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





,  suggesting you to spend your money xD


----------



## JK1

Quote: 





kanuka said:


> i'm looking for a new earbud
> i have the mx471 and the akg k312.
> both are great. the mx471 (as the 581) is overall better
> i'd like something brighter with more (or ar leasta bit more) fwd mids/vocals
> ...


 


 The Sony E888 is nice. It has so much detail and is so dynamic. There are many fakes around though, so make sure to get a real  one. I guess the Sennheiser MX880 might also be close to what you are looking for. I haven't heard it yet. I haven't heard the MX471. I don't know how much better the MX580 is. I do like the MX580 though.


----------



## sofastreamer

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Creative Aurvana Air, but not quite as easy to find now.


 

 even better than on the mx980s?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





sofastreamer said:


> even better than on the mx980s?


 


 IIRC, MX980's soundstage isn't the best I have heard (though still quite good). Aurvana Air on the other hand has really good soundstage.


----------



## sofastreamer

here is what i wrote in my earbud thread: ok, i have recieved the m980s. they are ok, but they are not better than the mx580 in my opinion. they have more of a v shaped sound, while the 580s are more midcentric. the mx980 do not offer more details and that was what i was looking for. you can easily test that with micheal buble "cry me a river". just in the beginning there is a very low piano  playing in the lows and you cannot figure it out with any of the two. so i will give the aurvanas a shot.


----------



## JK1

The Sony E888 probably has the detail you want. It is much more detailed and much more dynamic than the MX580. The MX580 is very nice sounding considering it is just $25. I see new e888 on ebay for $50. I don't know how you tell if these are real or not.
  I bought my E888 more than 10 years ago, when it was a current model in the US. It may still be a current model in parts of Asia.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





jk1 said:


> The Sony E888 probably has the detail you want. It is much more detailed and much more dynamic than the MX580. The MX580 is very nice sounding considering it is just $25. I see new e888 on ebay for $50. I don't know how you tell if these are real or not.
> I bought my E888 more than 10 years ago, when it was a current model in the US. It may still be a current model in parts of Asia.


 


  E888 has never been discontinued, but the production has moved from Japan to other Asian countries - thus some says the current production is not quite as nice as the original Japanese version.


----------



## Sparky191

How can you get a genuine one though.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





sparky191 said:


> How can you get a genuine one though.


 
  Fake E888 is extremely well made, I won't recommend any place that is less than very reputable. It is still a very popular model in Asia so picking one up from a Sony store or authorized dealer is still pretty easy, but online is a different matter of its own.


----------



## kjk1281

The E888 has been nearly impossible to find from Japanese online retailers for a while now. Kakaku.com for example isn't showing any stores that have E888s available. They are not listed on Sony's website as discontinued, but they are currently out of stock at Sony's online store. (Actually, 販売終了 is more literally translated as "no longer for sale" as if they are not expecting another shipment.) If I recall correctly, the latest E888s were made in Thailand, but I'm not sure if the flooding there has anything to do with the lack of supply.


----------



## jant71

http://www.warehouse123.com/store/product_information.php?pid=21903&ptext=Sony-MDR-E888LP-Earphone-Gold
   
  I've had nothing but good dealings with them. Though none recently. The price has gone up recently as well. They were $50.


----------



## ClieOS

HiSound Audio PAA-1 Pro and Living added. Review can be found here.


----------



## chrislangley4253

any idea when you might get the Blox m2c posted?


----------



## ClieOS

chrislangley4253 said:


> any idea when you might get the Blox m2c posted?




Within the next few weeks.


----------



## kanuka

which one 'd you consider best value for the money
   
  sunrise as-feeling  $23~24
  blox m2c $47
  HSA paa-1 $25
  (shipping included)
   
  the sunrise are very comfortable 
  the other 2 are ok, just a bit big maybe
   
  thanks!
  and congrats for the 10k posts! very nice amp-thread


----------



## ClieOS

kanuka said:


> which one 'd you consider best value for the money
> 
> sunrise as-feeling  $23~24
> blox m2c $47
> ...




M2c without a doubt.


----------



## airomjosh

Hi Clieos, Good day! Have you tried the newer version of AS Feeling which is AS Feeling2 with titanium dynamic driver?


----------



## ClieOS

No, I haven't tried any of the new Sunrise.


----------



## kanuka

would you say the  paa pro share a similar sound with the pk1?


----------



## chrislangley4253

Clieos,

Y U no post Blox M2C?


----------



## ClieOS

kanuka said:


> would you say the  paa pro share a similar sound with the pk1?




No, not totally. They both share a sense of warmness in their presentation, but ultimately PK1 is much open sounding than PAA-1 Pro.



chrislangley4253 said:


> Clieos,
> Y U no post Blox M2C?




Because I am quite busy recently. and still recovering from a bad case of flu, so I haven't been able to finish it up. Anyway,. I'll post it up by the end of the week.


----------



## a_tumiwa

i just notice that Hisound living and live are different model.
  Does Hisound Living has a thin sound character and thin bass like B&O A8 ?


----------



## swbf2cheater

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Almost fell right out of my chair when I read that.


----------



## ClieOS

a_tumiwa said:


> i just notice that Hisound living and live are different model.
> Does Hisound Living has a thin sound character and thin bass like B&O A8 ?




Yes, Living and Live are two different model.

Also yes, Living does has a similar thin sound like the A8. But here is a mod you can do to make A8 thicker sounding.


----------



## e19650826

ever tried the ATH CM7? It's out of production now... and I always wanted to get my hands on one... although AT is now making a lot "better" dynamic IEMs.. but lots of people believe that the CM7 still has the most original AT SQ (vocal central) If anyone knows a place where I can get a genuine pair, please share it... it is much appreciated...


----------



## ClieOS

I heard a CM7 once, a very long time ago. It has been discontinued for such a long time, finding a genuine pair will be difficult since there are a lot of fake CM7 coming out of China. If you don't mind the ear clip, B&O A8 will be the closest thing to a CM7. They are both OEM'ed by the same company and has been compared side-by-side during their prime time for their similarity in sound.


----------



## kanuka

Quote: 





swbf2cheater said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 why's that? dont you agree?


----------



## swbf2cheater

The last thing I would ever describe the Pk1 as is spacious, open, airy or having a good sound stage.  Under no circumstances did I find the Pk1 to even remotely come close to the Paa1 Pro in sound stage qualities, not even with spacious sources and amps like the Studio V or the Asgard.  Funny how we all hear differently.  I'd stake my life on the Hisound buds being significantly more open and spacious sounding than the Pk1, but thats just my view.  Maybe I'm insane, not sure really


----------



## ClieOS

swbf2cheater said:


> The last thing I would ever describe the Pk1 as is spacious, open, airy or having a good sound stage.  Under no circumstances did I find the Pk1 to even remotely come close to the Paa1 Pro in sound stage qualities, not even with spacious sources and amps like the Studio V or the Asgard.  Funny how we all hear differently.  I'd stake my life on the Hisound buds being significantly more open and spacious sounding than the Pk1, but thats just my view.  Maybe I'm insane, not sure really




I listened to both again just a few hours ago and definitely reached a different conclusion from you. But as you said, we all hear differently.

If you don't mind me asking, where did you get your PK1? I have a very old pair from back in 2008, so I wonder if there is change during the year or worst, fake, since Yuin has been known to be cloned for the last few years. Just wonder....


----------



## kanuka

and the diffrence in fit also plays here


----------



## swbf2cheater

I've had maybe 4 or 5 PK1s since they were released.  Hisound specifically and purposely bested all the major earbuds in terms of sound staging, this was their_ highest goal_.  Seriously, go ask them what their intent was and it will be something in regards to achieving the best sound staging possible.  I think this is a matter of having a different opinion on what "open" means.  Mike from Headfonia also disagrees with pretty much everything I have concluded, which always shocked me to the core.  Some listeners sense a more open sound when a set of iems have prominent stage depth, sets like the Pk1 have this type of sound.  When properly amped, the stage depth is good, better than the Paa1 Pro but still heavily lacking width and height, which is significantly better on the hisound buds.  I can see how to some that would give off a sense of openness, again as we both said we all hear differently.  Some ears might pick up on this type of signature and produce an open sound, I just don't hear it.  When I A/B both sets together I find the Hisound Pro to be significantly taller, wider, and more open.  My definition of Open is a sense of airiness and separation qualities, in this regard the Pk1 pales in comparison to the Paa1 Pro, which again was literally designed to trump the Pk1 and other similar earbuds.  
   
  Just my two cents, nobody is wrong or right when it comes to opinion.


----------



## ClieOS

4~5 PK1? That's really something. If soundstage is HiSound's goal, I will agree that they do quite well with the Living, but not that much on the PAA-1 Pro IMO.


----------



## purk

Nice thread.  From my experience, the E484 and Sennheiser MX-980 reign supreme in the earbuds world.  I'm not sure which of the two I like better but the Sony MDR-E484 is just simply excellent sounding.  Of course, tracking one down is highly unlikely due to how old it is.


----------



## Danneq

Quote: 





purk said:


> Nice thread.  From my experience, the E484 and Sennheiser MX-980 reign supreme in the earbuds world.  I'm not sure which of the two I like better but the Sony MDR-E484 is just simply excellent sounding.  Of course, tracking one down is highly unlikely due to how old it is.


 


  I've found MDR-E484, E282 & Aiwa HP D9 on Ebay in the recent 6 months. And I just bought a pair of MX980. I'd say that my top 5 now looks something like this:
   
  1. MX980
  2. Aiwa HP-D9
  3. MDR-E282
  4. MDR-E484
  5. ATH CM700TI
   
  The MX980 really sound like full size headphones. The highs are not as sharp as on the Sony earbuds, and almost sound recessed compared to the Sony earbuds. But still there's a lot of detail along with great imaging and instrument separation. I'd say that the Aiwa D9 are slightly better when it comes to those things, but the D9 is severly bass anemic...
  Anyway, I love vintage earbuds and I find it amazing, and a bit sad, that Sony made so much better earbuds 20 years ago than they do today...
   
  I remember seeing you on old threads about vintage Sony and Aiwa earbuds. I'm still looking for Aiwa HP-V99 and V9. Hopefully I'll find a pair that I don't have to pay through my nose for...


----------



## purk

@ Danneq:
   
  Yup, I'm a big fan of earbuds listening and still have several of them in my collection.  I am not surprised seeing the MX980 at the top of your list as they do sound like a full size headphones.  I bought the MX980 2 years ago only to give it away to my cousin.  No comparison was made to my E484 but I do feel that they do sound better as well.  I am curious on why you like the E282 better than the E484?  At the moment, I still have 2 E484s, 2 E472s, 1 E565, and 5 E888s in my collection.


----------



## kanuka

Quote: 





purk said:


> @ Danneq:
> 
> Yup, I'm a big fan of earbuds listening and still have several of them in my collection.  I am not surprised seeing the MX980 at the top of your list as they do sound like a full size headphones.  I bought the MX980 2 years ago only to give it away to my cousin.  No comparison was made to my E484 but I do feel that they do sound better as well.  I am curious on why you like the E282 better than the E484?  At the moment, I still have 2 E484s, 2 E472s, 1 E565, and 5 E888s in my collection.


 

  
  then, have you tried the akg k312/4 ? my first head-fi buy


----------



## purk

Quote: 





kanuka said:


> then, have you tried the akg k312/4 ? my first head-fi buy


 


  No I have not, and likely won't even though they probably sound great.  My days of listening purely on earbuds are now over especially after I bought the Shure SE530.  Since my 530 broke down, I was fortunate enough to buy the JH13pro and SE535 as my portable phones of choice.  I found that IEM allows me to listen at much lower volume thus minimizing additional hearing damage posted by most headphones listening.


----------



## Danneq

Quote: 





purk said:


> @ Danneq:
> 
> Yup, I'm a big fan of earbuds listening and still have several of them in my collection.  I am not surprised seeing the MX980 at the top of your list as they do sound like a full size headphones.  I bought the MX980 2 years ago only to give it away to my cousin.  No comparison was made to my E484 but I do feel that they do sound better as well.  I am curious on why you like the E282 better than the E484?  At the moment, I still have 2 E484s, 2 E472s, 1 E565, and 5 E888s in my collection.


 


  I feel that the E282 sound more spacious than the E484. The E484 do have more punch in their sound and more detail, but the E282 is closer to full size headphones. Still the E484 is heads and sholders above most current earbud models


----------



## a_tumiwa

Quote: 





danneq said:


> I've found MDR-E484, E282 & Aiwa HP D9 on Ebay in the recent 6 months. And I just bought a pair of MX980. I'd say that my top 5 now looks something like this:
> 
> 1. MX980
> 2. Aiwa HP-D9
> ...


 

 hi Danneq, nice to see you again.
  My top 5 earbuds: 
  1. PK1
  2. Blox TM5
  3. Crossroads HR1
  4. OK1
  5. CM700
  then the next 15 are: Crossroads HR2, AKG K319, ok2, ok3, Radius Woody, Beyerdynamics Mipro E8E, PK3, Sennheiser mx760, mx90vc, v-moda remix m-class, hisound paa-1, soundmagic ph10, Cresyn EP800, Nokia HS450, Philips SHE7850
   
   
   
   
   
  i am searching the legendary Sony E484 since a long time ago, but the price is always too high , at least $200 at ebay, and the japanese auction site is even crazier.
  i hope someday i can try mx980 and hisound living/live/paa1pro and blox m2c


----------



## Danneq

Hello a_tumiwa!
   
  I'm curious about the Blox TM5, but the Blox M2C is said to sound almost as good as the TM5. There's also a new version of the M2C that probably will be released soon.
   
  I have missed the Crossroads earbuds...
   
  Well, recently I have wanted to try out old Sony and Aiwa earbuds and I have bought all of them from German Ebay. It is a good place for old vintage earbuds. But the prices are of course a bit high. I have paid around or over $200 each for the three Sony and Aiwa earbuds that I like the most. But since they are discontinued and very rare, I understand that they are difficult to find and that the price therefor becomes much higher.
   
  You really should try to get the Sennheiser MX980. It definitely beats most other earbuds in the overall sound. Very deep bass and great detail and instrument separation. It sounds like much more than just earbuds. It has been discontinued, and I think that prices will slowly go up from now. Sennheiser has not yet come with a replacement model...
   
  Still I really like other earbuds as well and they all have different and equally fascinating sound characteristics.
   
  I also want to try out the Hisoundaudio earbuds. But I think I will take it easy with earbuds for a while now since I have spent too much on them during the last 6 months...


----------



## ClieOS

You'll want to look out for the next Blox flagship as well. I have a beta pair for evaluation and it is great sounding, nothing short of PK1 / MX980's level of SQ and it is not the final version yet.


----------



## Danneq

Quote: 





clieos said:


> You'll want to look out for the next Blox flagship as well. I have a beta pair for evaluation and it is great sounding, nothing short of PK1 / MX980's level of SQ and it is not the final version yet.


 


  I have read about that one. Do you think it will be released? Blox seems to only concentrate on one earbud model at a time and I've read that this new Blox flagship earbud might not leave the prototype stage...


----------



## ClieOS

They certainly is taking their time. Even on current stage, I'll think it is ready to be release. I can only hope it will be even better by the time of release.


----------



## kanonathena

Quote: 





clieos said:


> You'll want to look out for the next Blox flagship as well. I have a beta pair for evaluation and it is great sounding, nothing short of PK1 / MX980's level of SQ and it is not the final version yet.


 


  Only pk1/mx980 level? How does it compare to Living? I am considering selling my Living but was under the impression that the next Blox should be as least as good as Living technically ...


----------



## kanuka

Quote: 





kanonathena said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  you could also wait for the next Hisound ...


----------



## ClieOS

kanonathena said:


> Only pk1/mx980 level? How does it compare to Living? I am considering selling my Living but was under the impression that the next Blox should be as least as good as Living technically ...



If you haven't noticed, I already placed Living ahead of PK1 in the ranking.

Anyway, it is a figure of speech to show what kind of level its will be, so don't overthink / overextend the meaning of the words I used.


----------



## a_tumiwa

what is the price tag for this new Blox earbuds? the Blox TM5 cost $180 and i think if this new blox around the level of pk1/mx980/living, so the price should be around $180 too


----------



## purk

Went to check on one of my E484 today and discovered that one of the driver is toasted.  Not sure why.  I soldered in a new wire but still no sound.  Down to one E484 now.    Got to take care of my precious!


----------



## Danneq

Quote: 





purk said:


> Went to check on one of my E484 today and discovered that one of the driver is toasted.  Not sure why.  I soldered in a new wire but still no sound.  Down to one E484 now.    Got to take care of my precious!


 

 Ahhh! That sucks!
   
  Did you just solder the wire that is connected to the driver? It's not a problem somewhere along the cable? I baby my vintage earbuds and all of them are okay.
   
  Well, when I received my Aiwa HP-D9, the left bud sounded really bad. It sounded like a bad transistor radio. I left it in a drawer for a few weeks and then I decided to open it up and see what was the problem. There was a tiny hole in the diaphragm, so I put a tiny piece of scotch tape over the hole. Amazingly it worked and now it sounds like normal.
   
  Do you think that a driver can stop functioning just like that? Granted, the E484 are old, but without outside influence in the form of high air humidity or big changes in temperature they should be like new if they are not used.


----------



## ClieOS

a_tumiwa said:


> what is the price tag for this new Blox earbuds? the Blox TM5 cost $180 and i think if this new blox around the level of pk1/mx980/living, so the price should be around $180 too




Don't know. I was not informed about the price, or even when it will be released.


----------



## ClieOS

Updated with Blox M2c, and you can find the full review here.

p/s: Now I think of it, I do remember being told that the next Blox flagship 'will not be cheap'.


----------



## a_tumiwa

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Updated with Blox M2c, and you can find the full review here.
> p/s: Now I think of it, I do remember being told that the next Blox flagship 'will not be cheap'.


 


   
  good sound and affordable, nice combo,
  only lack of advertising and distribution.


----------



## a_tumiwa

just tested Blox M2C, i think these earbuds are for Natural-lover , the included foams are also very good and thick
  M2C have difference sound character than Blox TM2, which is more Bass oriented


----------



## chrislangley4253

natural is my *thing* and they are my favorite bud thus far


----------



## Yao Si Ting

How does Blox m2c vs Yuin pk1 ClieOS..?


----------



## ClieOS

yao si ting said:


> How does Blox m2c vs Yuin pk1 ClieOS..?




M2c vs. PK1 is somewhat covered in my M2c review. You can find it here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/603310/review-blox-m2c

In short, I think M2c is on the top-tier level as PK1, but not quite beating other top dogs just yet.


----------



## a_tumiwa

how about Sansa Buds? do u think it should be on category 3 or 4?


----------



## ClieOS

a_tumiwa said:


> how about Sansa Buds? do u think it should be on category 3 or 4?




I have two different Sansa earbuds (one from Fuze while the other from Clip+, forget which is which), one of them is actually quite decent (a category 3) while the other is mediocre (lower category 3 or category 4). I'll put them into the ranking on my next earbud review, and perhaps some picture as well.


----------



## ShenaRingo326

Have you had a chance to listen to the HiSoundAudio *Live *(not Living)?  I am looking for another earbud to compliment my PK1, so I'm looking for something that has better speed/PRaT with decent bass.  Therefore I am considering either the HiSoundAudio Live or the NineWave NW Studio Pro.  I will mainly be using it with RSA Mustang + iPod, and I listen to quite a bit of rock and hip-hop.
   
  Any recommendations for my needs is greatly appreciated!

 Thanks!


----------



## apurvmj

Forgive me if it sounds stupid or repeated but,
  Can we have custom earbuds and I'm not talking about custom dynamic drivers to solve fit and isolation issue?
  Thanks.


----------



## ClieOS

shenaringo326 said:


> Have you had a chance to listen to the HiSoundAudio *Live* (not Living)?




Unfortunately no.



apurvmj said:


> Forgive me if it sounds stupid or repeated but,
> Can we have custom earbuds and I'm not talking about custom dynamic drivers to solve fit and isolation issue?
> Thanks.




Not really understand what you are referring as custom... like build to order earbuds? I know Audio Technical has a website where you can order earbuds with custom color, which is about as custom as it gets.


----------



## apurvmj

No I'm not talking about cosmetics and not about custom tips but like custom iem.
  I like sound directly coming from drivers like earbuds and not through narrow tube/pipes like iem, but fit is an issue with most of earbuds and so is isolation.
  Would it be a good idea to have custom molded earbuds so they can have good fit & decent isolation.
  Hope I'm clear this time.


----------



## ClieOS

apurvmj said:


> No I'm not talking about cosmetics but like custom iem.
> I like sound directly coming from drivers like earbuds and not through narrow tube/pipes like iem, but fit is an issue with most of earbuds and so is isolation.
> Would it be a good idea to have custom molded earbuds so they can have good fit & decent isolation.
> Hope I'm clear this time.




The problem is, once you put a custom mold on earbuds, you are more or less turning it into an IEM and loss the point of a 'cutom earbuds' anymore. Also, almost any mold will make an earbud sounds worst because it changes the acoustic impedance of the earbud. This is because most earbuds are designed to best in open air and mold will add seal. You might as well get a decent IEM instead.


----------



## apurvmj

I think we will make it IEM only if we channel the sound through tube like part.
  What I mean that putting earbud inner mechanism in custom shells while keeping the output as wide and open as we normally use.
  My main objective is to eliminate fit & isolation issue.
  Am I expressing myself correctly?


----------



## chrislangley4253

apurvmj said:


> I think we will make it IEM only if we channel the sound through tube like part.
> What I mean that putting earbud inner mechanism in custom shells while keeping the output as wide and open as we normally use.
> My main objective is to eliminate fit & isolation issue.
> Am I expressing myself correctly?




Yes, but you misunderstand what makes buds sound the way they do. It is not just the wide open tubeless output, but also the lack of seal and the air that is present around the bud. If you change the fit, they will sound different. It is most likely going to be bad.


----------



## ClieOS

You can try Yurbud, or its adapter. I don't think it is quite as good sounding as some of the earbuds we are discussing here, but it does give you somewhat of a more secure fit.


----------



## kanuka

clieos,
   what's your opinion on the Paa-1 (not Pro)?


----------



## chrislangley4253

kanuka said:


> clieos,
> what's your opinion on the Paa-1 (not Pro)?




I know I'm not clieos.. but get yourself a pair of Blox.


----------



## kanuka

no doubt of that! i'll probably get a m2c when they come to stock...


----------



## ClieOS

kanuka said:


> clieos,
> what's your opinion on the Paa-1 (not Pro)?




Decent but nothing spectacular. I haven't really spent much time on it but I'll say the SQ is roughly equal to Piano Forte II's level.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





kanuka said:


> no doubt of that! i'll probably get a m2c when they come to stock...


 
  I need a new one, i washed and dried mine. maybe we can try to organize yet another group buy.


----------



## kanuka

the k319 for $25 at a local store, is it still that good or already outdated?


----------



## ClieOS

kanuka said:


> the k319 for $25 at a local store, is it still that good or already outdated?




Sounds like a good buy to me, but is it real?

Anyway, K319 is a decent earbud, but it is warm, smooth and doesn't stand out on any particular area. If you already have any one of those earbuds I rated higher than K319, then you can skip it altogether,


----------



## kanuka

it should be real, the store is listed at AKG site as a dealer.
   
  but i can skip it (*still waiting for the M2c stock, sigh*)


----------



## ClieOS

K319 have been discontinued, so they might be clearing overstock.


----------



## JK1

How does the JVC HA-FX40 IEM compare with the Sony MDR-E484? The HA-FX40 IEM is only around $20. The HA-FX40 has so much detail. I just did a comparison of the HA-FX40 and the Sony E888. While both sound good, the HA-FX40 has much better bass and better detail overall. The E888 is a bit warmer sounding than the FX40, but not as warm as the Panasonic HJE-355.
   
  The Sennheiser MX580 sounds almost as warm as the HJE355, however the HJE355 has better bass and better detail.
   
   
  I guess this explains why I reach for an IEM or headphone when I have a choice, and usually only use traditional style earbuds when I must hear my surroundings.
   
  The market has clearly moved away from traditional earbuds except perhaps at the lowest price points.


----------



## Danneq

Quote: 





kanuka said:


> the k319 for $25 at a local store, is it still that good or already outdated?


 
   
  I think it's a good deal. I think that it's better than Yuin PK3 and almost on the same level as PK2. Blox M2C might be a bit better than both PK2 and K319, but at $25 you can't go wrong!


----------



## chrislangley4253

soooo. I ran into a bunch of people calling the PK3 "warm"

 did I have a bad unit or something?


----------



## ClieOS

jk1 said:


> How does the JVC HA-FX40 IEM compare with the Sony MDR-E484?




If you are asking me, then the answer is, I don't know since I have heard neither.




chrislangley4253 said:


> soooo. I ran into a bunch of people calling the PK3 "warm"
> 
> did I have a bad unit or something?



No, I won't call PK3 warm myself. It is on the lush side of sound but calling it warm is a bit over-the-top IMO.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Is it worth it to get the expensive pmx 980 (120 euros) , when all you want  is something as good or better than your k317 (broken) ?
 I  know that k317 has same sound as k319, they just  don't have the volume control. Can't find a good replacement of k317 on the online store I use.
 I  liked especially k317 treble & soundstage. I know that the pmx 980 are discontinued too, the only reason that they don't disappear fast, is their price. .


----------



## ClieOS

PMX980? DO you mean OMX980 instead? Unless you really want the ear clip, I really see no reason to get the OMX980 when MX980 is available.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





clieos said:


> PMX980? DO you mean OMX980 instead? Unless you really want the ear clip, I really see no reason to get the OMX980 when MX980 is available.


 

 Ooops I meant the MX980. I already have the PMX680 (treble is meh) , hence the confusion.


----------



## airomjosh

I hope you can also review the new earbuds of sunrise, the SWD2 and the AS Feeling2.


----------



## FoxSpirit

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> I need a new one, i washed and dried mine. maybe we can try to organize yet another group buy.


 
  I literally fried mine in a plane by being too curious. Why is my ear getting hot? *funny smell* One channel burnt out. Fortunately I had my K319 also with me so I wasn't without music on the trip.
   
  Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Is it worth it to get the expensive pmx 980 (120 euros) , when all you want  is something as good or better than your k317 (broken) ?
> I  know that k317 has same sound as k319, they just  don't have the volume control. Can't find a good replacement of k317 on the online store I use.
> I  liked especially k317 treble & soundstage. I know that the pmx 980 are discontinued too, the only reason that they don't disappear fast, is their price. .


 
  Short answer: depends. Mine would be no, not if you can get Blox M2C. Besides, most people find the MX880/980 really big and uncomfortable, I know I do.
  As for quality, the K319 isn't too thrilling in any department so upgrading should be easy, even my AS-sunrise sound better 
   
  Personal fave is M2C, as comfortable as the 317 but with a ton better sound and a super price... once they are available again or we get another group buy.
   
  edit: also really curious about the new BLOX, I hope they go for a great price again. Seriously, small nigglings apart I found the M2C to be near perfect and I still liked them next to €4k Monitor audio towers


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





foxspirit said:


> As for quality, the K319 isn't too thrilling in any department so upgrading should be easy, even my AS-sunrise sound better


 
  I  don't know I  liked my k317 a lot (supposed to be same as k319).
 I'm not thrilled by many of supposed superior headphone, so there's a also a matter of taste.

 I will just get the yamaha eph-100 soon, I hope they'll have some pleasing highs, and that they are enough comfy.


----------



## chrislangley4253

any suggestions on a carrying case for a pair of earbuds clieOS?


----------



## Danneq

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> any suggestions on a carrying case for a pair of earbuds clieOS?


 
   
  Well, I'm not ClieOS, but I can give you a few suggestions.
   
  I've got this one, and this one. They both serve their purpose well.
   
  If you want to be with the in-crowd, you can get this one or this one.


----------



## ClieOS

I have a few fake Beat hard case from eBay, dirt cheap and well built so no complains here. For the more expensive variety, Shure soft case and the Westone monitor vault is okay. as well. Of course if you are the adventure type, Otter box 1000 series is relative cheap on eBay as well, but not nearly as good looking as Pelican box.


----------



## chrislangley4253

thanks!


----------



## Danneq

As I wrote in another earbud thread:
   
  If anyone's interested in a pair of Sony MDR-E282 and is able to replace defective cables, there's a pair up for auction here: http://www.ebay.de/itm/SONY-MDR-E-282-GOLD-mit-BOX-TASCHE-for-DIGITAL-10-25-000-Hz-SPITZENMODELL-/350602634828?pt=Kopfh%C3%B6rer&hash=item51a18ba64c
   
  I'm not affiliated with the seller, I just like finding vintage earbuds. If someone is able to fix the cable, it is a great pair of vintage Sony earbuds...


----------



## ClieOS

I am definitely interested, but that guy only ships within Germany, I think.


----------



## chrislangley4253

man those look cool. I'm willing to bet they are too large for me though


----------



## Danneq

I bought my pair of E282 from a German seller. Just ask if they ship outside of Germany and to the country where you live. Most sellers don't have a problem with that. But many German sellers like this one don't use Paypal, and instead you have to transfer money to their bank account. I have not had any problems yet, and I've bought both vintage earbuds, MP3 players and a cellphone from Germany. AND a turntable AND a DVD-player...
   
  The E282 and E484 are pretty big, but not in the same way as the Sennheiser MX980. They are quite light and stick well in your ears.
   
  The E282 was sold between 1985-1990. To me, the only earbuds that beat it is the MX980 and TM7...


----------



## ClieOS

Apple Earpods added.


----------



## nammoc

Does anyone know if the Sennheiser OMX90VC have the same sound signature with MX90VC?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





nammoc said:


> Does anyone know if the Sennheiser OMX90VC have the same sound signature with MX90VC?


 
   
  Yes, they are.


----------



## nammoc

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Yes, they are.


 
   
  Thanks for the confirmation, Tai.
  Ah btw just wanna ask if it is worth $45 for a brand new OMX90VC in you opinion?


----------



## ClieOS

nammoc said:


> Thanks for the confirmation, Tai.
> Ah btw just wanna ask if it is worth $45 for a brand new OMX90VC in you opinion?




Yes, but you need to be sure it is genuine..


----------



## nammoc

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Yes, but you need to be sure it is genuine..


 
   
  Yeah, it comes from an authorized distributor for Sennheiser in my country


----------



## ClieOS

A quick update: ordered CM707 last week and MX985 about a hour ago. No really sure when they will come since it is close to the Holidays. With any luck, both should be here before Christmas, but it could very well be 2013.


----------



## flkin

Oh, look forward to your opinion of the mx985. Wasn't overly impressed with the 980, hoping this update brings improvements.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





flkin said:


> Oh, look forward to your opinion of the mx985. Wasn't overly impressed with the 980, hoping this update brings improvements.


 
   
  Some said they are the same thing though - my audio memory of MX980 has been fainted all away so I really won't be able to make any comparison, and my several email inquires to Sennheiser customer service have had no response whatsoever. I think their CS is slipping...


----------



## kjk1281

clieos said:


> A quick update: ordered CM707 last week and MX985 about a hour ago. No really sure when they will come since it is close to the Holidays. With any luck, both should be here before Christmas, but it could very well be 2013.




Can't wait for your impressions. I'd like to see if your opinion of the CM707 mirrors that of other reviewers who say that the 707 is more bassy than previous Audio-Technicas. And of course, interested to hear your views on the MX985. I've always wanted to try the MX980, but the price was just too high for me to pull the trigger. The MX985 seems to be cheaper in most regions, but Sennheiser USA doesn't distribute them! I just can't win! :rolleyes:



flkin said:


> Oh, look forward to your opinion of the mx985. Wasn't overly impressed with the 980, hoping this update brings improvements.




What was it that turned you off on the MX980? Save me some money, man! Talk me out of buying a MX985!


----------



## jant71

Cool stuff
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




! We need more impressions of the AT.
   
  The MX985 doesn't seem different from MX980 outside of the cable with the new plug and Y. The press releases always mention the CX985 sound improvements over the CX980 but never any mention for the MX changing anything but physical stuff.
   
  Anyone have/hear a Sunrise SWD2 yet? I read one review vs. the MX980 that the Sunrise has more treble and a wider stage than the Senn but the reviewer still preferred the Senn low end. Of course the lacking low end may be a function of the power needed with the Sunrise being 120Ohm. The Sunrise are $111 shipped from bigbargainonline making them $50 cheaper than the MX985(for me anyway). More info needed on those.
   
  Any new info on the next BLOX??


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





kjk1281 said:


> ... The MX985 seems to be cheaper in most regions, but Sennheiser USA doesn't distribute them! I just can't win!


 
   
  The only places beside Germany that has the MX985 seems to be China. I am taking a risk and order one from Hong Kong, hopefully everything will go smoothly.
   
   
  Quote: 





jant71 said:


> Cool stuff
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I don't think Blox has enough TM7 out there yet...but their stock is unpredictable.
   
  I talked to Sunrise a while back. Last I heard, the international version of SWD2 will be different from the Chinese version, and I think they are not yet ready to release it yet. Their Chinese model is generally the lesser of the two versions.


----------



## jant71

Thanks for the update. Yep, you are right there! If anything I have seen with Sunrise, it is wise to wait and not to buy the first version of a phone cause there will probably be another version with tweaks/fixes coming.


----------



## flkin

kjk1281 said:


> What was it that turned you off on the MX980? Save me some money, man! Talk me out of buying a MX985!




Ah, that wouldn't be fair on the Mx985 would it?  I haven't hear it yet, might be super!

Don't get me wrong, I found the 980 generally good. The bass was astonishing. Hope they manage to keep that in the 985. Just that it wasn't a clear winner against the Yuin PK1 and Blok TM7. I seem to remember I also had a problem with fit, it was a tad thick with the foams on for me.


----------



## kjk1281

clieos said:


> Some said they are the same thing though - my audio memory of MX980 has been fainted all away so I really won't be able to make any comparison, and my several email inquires to Sennheiser customer service have had no response whatsoever.* I think their CS is slipping...*




That's not good. Did you try PMing Rosmadi here on Head-Fi? He may not know the answer, but maybe he can get in touch with someone who does.




flkin said:


> Ah, that wouldn't be fair on the Mx985 would it?  I haven't hear it yet, might be super!
> Don't get me wrong, I found the 980 generally good. The bass was astonishing. Hope they manage to keep that in the 985. Just that it wasn't a clear winner against the Yuin PK1 and Blok TM7. I seem to remember I also had a problem with fit, it was a tad thick with the foams on for me.




It might be. I'm personally not looking for the "best" (which doesn't exist), but rather something to compliment my Creative Aurvana Air. I have the M2C so I have Blox covered, and I've always been interested in the PK1 but not enough to buy one _and_ a portable amp.
.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





kjk1281 said:


> That's not good. Did you try PMing Rosmadi here on Head-Fi? He may not know the answer, but maybe he can get in touch with someone who does.


 
   
  I already bought the MX985, so it doesn't matter that much to me any more. For what ever reason, my experience with Sennheiser was never particularly good. Their press office is polite but not helpful, the local distributor cares nothing but making money, now there is the CS that doesn't bother to reply inquires. My expectation of Sennheiser is minimum at best.


----------



## ClieOS

CM707 is here.
   
  It isn't quite the CM700 sibling I was hoping for as it isn't the lean and clean sound of the old AT earbuds, but really warm and upfront. A classic warm+sweet sound with a slightly shadowed treble. Still a top-tier, but not a TM7 killer at this point. Those who look for a comfortable fit will be disappointed as the housing is actually 1mm larger the TM7 and less comfortable.


----------



## kjk1281

Thanks for the early impressions on the CM707! It's strange that they're deviating from the classic formula that AT used to employ, but at least it seems to be good-sounding in its own right. I wonder why they decided to go with the warm and sweet signature? Is that the direction AT is going in, or is it just for certain models?


----------



## purk

Forgot my JH13pro at home today and has been listening to a $5 Koss Earbuds without any cushioned on.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Not completely horrible but I want my good phones again.


----------



## Danneq

Quote: 





purk said:


> Forgot my JH13pro at home today and has been listening to a $5 Koss Earbuds without any cushioned on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  What has happened to your Sony E484? I remember seeing you when I looked through old threads looking for info on old Sony and Aiwa earbuds.
   
  I've built quite a collection of old Sony and Aiwa earbuds. I've got all the Sony models that I want and need: E252, E282, E484 and E464, I rank the SQ in that order. The E252 is clearly the best one and sound amazing considering that it's an almost 30 years old model. They are in the same league as Sennheiser MX980 and Blox TM7.
 As for Aiwa I've got HP-D9, HP-S400, HP-D2 and HP-V541. I rank the SQ in that order. The D9 is the only high end Aiwa I've got. The Aiwa auctions on Ebay always end up at a very high price. I recently bid on a pair of mint Aiwa HP-V9, and I stopped bidding at €611. The auction ended at €805...
   
  I find Blox TM7 to be 1 on my list with Sony MDR-E252 coming in at number 2 followed by Sennheiser MX980 at number 3. I don't care about Yuin PK1 or other earbuds with high impedance. I really like the PK2 and PK3, but the PK2 are probably on the lower part of my top 10 list, and the PK3 don't make it there at all...
   
  @ClieOS - thanks for your impressions on the CM707. I think I'll skip these. The CM700 was my first high end earbud and my favorite until I started collecting earbuds. A few months ago I bought a mint pair of CM7, and I find myself prefering it over the CM700.


----------



## ClieOS

I think I saw someone trying to sell an E282 on eBay for $500+, and it doesn't even look good in shape. 
   
  I have given CM707 around 12 hours of burn-in, maybe a little less than that. So far the mid seems to be just a tab less thick and the overall sound has opened  up a tiny bit. It is however still in line with my previous observation and I don't expect any improvement at this point.


----------



## Danneq

I saw that auction for E282 as well. I got mine for $200 or $300. Not in perfect shape, but they are functioning perfectly well. There's also an auction for E262 on Ebay right now. I think the seller wants $300 for them. A bit too much, but they are very rare...


----------



## morpheusx

I'm very curious how Sennheiser MX985 compare with Yuin PK1


----------



## purk

Quote: 





danneq said:


> I saw that auction for E282 as well. I got mine for $200 or $300. Not in perfect shape, but they are functioning perfectly well. There's also an auction for E262 on Ebay right now. I think the seller wants $300 for them. A bit too much, but they are very rare...


 
   
  Wow....I'm an earbud fanatic but I don't understand why such a high price.  I love my E484 but it can't even measure up to the Shure SE530 that I have.  Care to explain why the 282 is any better?


----------



## purk

Quote: 





danneq said:


> What has happened to your Sony E484? I remember seeing you when I looked through old threads looking for info on old Sony and Aiwa earbuds.
> 
> I've built quite a collection of old Sony and Aiwa earbuds. I've got all the Sony models that I want and need: E252, E282, E484 and E464, I rank the SQ in that order. The E252 is clearly the best one and sound amazing considering that it's an almost 30 years old model. They are in the same league as Sennheiser MX980 and Blox TM7.
> As for Aiwa I've got HP-D9, HP-S400, HP-D2 and HP-V541. I rank the SQ in that order. The D9 is the only high end Aiwa I've got. The Aiwa auctions on Ebay always end up at a very high price. I recently bid on a pair of mint Aiwa HP-V9, and I stopped bidding at €611. The auction ended at €805...
> ...


 
   
  Sorry, I realized that I never reply to your inquiry.  Yes, still have the E484.  Two of them in fact as well as 4-5 pairs of E888.  I just left all of them at home and only use the Qualia and JH13pro at work.  That day, I left both the phones at home but needed the music bad.  I dug around and found a Koss Earbud in my car with very bad sound quality.  This remind me to at least leave one of my E888 at work as a backup


----------



## Danneq

Quote: 





purk said:


> Wow....I'm an earbud fanatic but I don't understand why such a high price.  I love my E484 but it can't even measure up to the Shure SE530 that I have.  Care to explain why the 282 is any better?


 
   
  I do not like IEM's at all ws if I want something small and portable, I only have earbuds. Nowadays there aren't that many earbud models to choose from.

 I think that the E282 has got a wider soundstage than the E484, and since I like that sort of presentation I prefer the E282 over the E484.
 The old E252 is a (small) step above the E282 and E484 when it comes to soundstage and detail.
   
  Nowadays there are only small Chinese makers that make earbuds, and in my opinion Blox make the best earbuds. Especially the TM7 and ANV3 are on a level of their own.


----------



## purk

Quote: 





danneq said:


> I do not like IEM's at all ws if I want something small and portable, I only have earbuds. Nowadays there aren't that many earbud models to choose from.
> 
> I think that the E282 has got a wider soundstage than the E484, and since I like that sort of presentation I prefer the E282 over the E484.
> The old E252 is a (small) step above the E282 and E484 when it comes to soundstage and detail.
> ...


 
  Thanks.  Where does the Senn MX980 ranked among the best in your opinion.  When I listened to it briefly, I was very impressed by it and thought it was better than the E484.


----------



## Danneq

Quote: 





purk said:


> Thanks.  Where does the Senn MX980 ranked among the best in your opinion.  When I listened to it briefly, I was very impressed by it and thought it was better than the E484.


 
   
  I'd say that the MX980 is on about the same level as the Blox TM7. Bass is slightly deeper with the MX980, but otherwise they are very close in sound. The thing that brings the Mx980 down for me is the fit - the housing is slightly bigger than most other earbuds. I have removed the small rubber ring around the earpiece and that makes the fit better, but it's still pretty big. Blox uses standard Sennheiser MX400 housing for their earbuds. They might look dull, but sound great and the fit is good as well.
   
  I have not heard the new MX985, but it looks like it's the same as the MX980 except for some changes in design.
   
  My top 5 would have to be:
  Blox TM7
  Sennheiser MX980
  Blox ANV3 (a model released to celebrate the third anniversary of Blox. TM7 drivers in different housing)
  Sony MDR-E252
  Aiwa HP-D9 (best highs and details of all my earbuds, but very bass aenemic...)
   
  I think that E282 would be no 6 and E484 no 7. Still the E484 is much better than most current earbud models...


----------



## ClieOS

Danneq, you might want to give the new Sunrise SW-Dragon 2 a listen. I won't say it beat TM7 or MX985, but it definitely belongs to the top-tier category.


----------



## Danneq

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Danneq, you might want to give the new Sunrise SW-Dragon 2 a listen. I won't say it beat TM7 or MX985, but it definitely belongs to the top-tier category.


 
   
  How's the impedance on them? I don't bother with high impedance earbuds since I want to use earbuds portably without using a headphone amp.

 I did recently buy the new Sunrise Charm 3. They have good detail and a "clean" and analytical sound without sounding sibilant. They are not close to TM7 or MX980/985, but I think they are better than Hisoundaudio Live and almost as good as Yuin PK2 (however I still prefer PK2 to Charm 3). Overall they are close to the AKG K319 in sound.


----------



## EPICFAILXD

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Danneq, you might want to give the new Sunrise SW-Dragon 2 a listen. I won't say it beat TM7 or MX985, but it definitely belongs to the top-tier category.


 
  ClieOS, what's your opinion on the MX985? I'm curious, even though I own a pair myself and find them to be absolutely fantastic.


----------



## blazer78

I'm curious about your CM707 impressions as I'm an oldie from the MDR-E888/CM7 era. I still use the CM7Ti occasionally, and remember forking out so much for it -_-
  I recently ordered the NW-Studio Pro W, in the hopes I can use that on a day to day basis and preserve my CM7Ti.
   
  In terms of detail retrieval, treble presentation and extension (all together), I really haven't found any earphone that surpasses it yet.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





danneq said:


> How's the impedance on them? I don't bother with high impedance earbuds since I want to use earbuds portably without using a headphone amp.
> 
> I did recently buy the new Sunrise Charm 3. They have good detail and a "clean" and analytical sound without sounding sibilant. They are not close to TM7 or MX980/985, but I think they are better than Hisoundaudio Live and almost as good as Yuin PK2 (however I still prefer PK2 to Charm 3). Overall they are close to the AKG K319 in sound.


 
   
  Yeah, there might be a problem as Dragon is 120ohm. I have the Charm 3 as well, not a bad earbuds at all. The new AS-Feeling is quite good too. Sunrise really has some nice earbuds recently.
   
   
  Quote: 





epicfailxd said:


> ClieOS, what's your opinion on the MX985? I'm curious, even though I own a pair myself and find them to be absolutely fantastic.


 
   
  It _is_ absolutely fantastic. TM7 is the only earbud that can measure up to it side by side.
   
   
  Quote: 





blazer78 said:


> I'm curious about your CM707 impressions as I'm an oldie from the MDR-E888/CM7 era. I still use the CM7Ti occasionally, and remember forking out so much for it -_-
> I recently ordered the NW-Studio Pro W, in the hopes I can use that on a day to day basis and preserve my CM7Ti.
> 
> In terms of detail retrieval, treble presentation and extension (all together), I really haven't found any earphone that surpasses it yet.


 
   
  If I am not mistaken, Studio Pro W is just the white version of normal Studio. In that case, you probably won't find the same level of detail retrieval as Studio does better in bass than in treble. HiSound Living might be more up to your taste. B&O A8, which is a clip-on, might be even closer. However, from what I have heard it is using a different driver now, warmer and less airy. Still I would think it is a closer approximation than CM707. Creative Aurvana Air  (also clip-on) is another good alternative as well.


----------



## sofastreamer

which would be the smallest and flattest, so that it wont hurt sleeping on the side with? i have tried bedphones, but these things suck in soundquality and comfort.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





sofastreamer said:


> which would be the smallest and flattest, so that it wont hurt sleeping on the side with? i have tried bedphones, but these things suck in soundquality and comfort.


 
   
  Apple Earpods? It isn't the greatest sounding ever, but it is really comfortable.


----------



## blazer78

Quote:  





> If I am not mistaken, Studio Pro W is just the white version of normal Studio. In that case, you probably won't find the same level of detail retrieval as Studio does better in bass than in treble. HiSound Living might be more up to your taste. B&O A8, which is a clip-on, might be even closer. However, from what I have heard it is using a different driver now, warmer and less airy. Still I would think it is a closer approximation than CM707. Creative Aurvana Air  (also clip-on) is another good alternative as well.


 
   
  Are you using foamies with the CM707?


----------



## sofastreamer

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Apple Earpods? It isn't the greatest sounding ever, but it is really comfortable.


 
  i own them, but they are way to bulky.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





blazer78 said:


> Are you using foamies with the CM707?


 
   
  Donut foam (foam with hole).
   
  Quote: 





sofastreamer said:


> i own them, but they are way to bulky.


 
   
  Why not just stick to IEM? It is unlikely that you will ever find a small earbuds. They are almost always has a driver that is 10mm and up.


----------



## sofastreamer

its not the ear bud itself, but the strain relief that sticks out. inears are no option for me anymore, as i cannot stad anything in my ears anymore.


----------



## Danneq

Quote: 





sofastreamer said:


> its not the ear bud itself, but the strain relief that sticks out. inears are no option for me anymore, as i cannot stad anything in my ears anymore.


 
   
  How about Yuin PK3 or PK2? Those are the smallest regular earbuds that I know about...


----------



## bonglee23

Does anybody have an idea where I would be able to buy a pair of Blox TM7 or M2C? They ever seem to be available anywhere, not even ebay...
  Thanks, Steve


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





bonglee23 said:


> Does anybody have an idea where I would be able to buy a pair of Blox TM7 or M2C? They ever seem to be available anywhere, not even ebay...
> Thanks, Steve


 
   
Blox is the only place you will find them. They are only made in small batch and almost always sale out in a few days so they never seem to be available for long. You can either go for a used pair or keep checking their website for them to go back on stock.


----------



## bonglee23

Thanks Tai, I almost feared so


----------



## purk

Due to this thread, I just bought a used Senn MX-980 just to rekindle my love for earbuds.  All of you are to blame!!


----------



## Danneq

Quote: 





purk said:


> Due to this thread, I just bought a used Senn MX-980 just to rekindle my love for earbuds.  All of you are to blame!!


 
  I probably speak for us all when I say this: We're sorry for your wallet!


----------



## sofastreamer

if you look at his inventory, he might already have paid quazillions in headphones


----------



## swmkdr

Quote: 





bonglee23 said:


> Does anybody have an idea where I would be able to buy a pair of Blox TM7 or M2C? They ever seem to be available anywhere, not even ebay...
> Thanks, Steve


 
  fleasbaby has a pair of TM7s up for sale in the forum. I don't know if he'll ship to Germany or not though.


----------



## ClieOS

Finally listened to Blox ANV3. Needless to say, exceptionally good and very similar to TM7. The only thing I can tell is that ANV3 is just a tab more forward and not quite as specious as TM7. Otherwise, it will be very hard to tell them apart without A/Bing.


----------



## karistep

What about the creative aurvana air ? In which category do you put them ?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





karistep said:


> What about the creative aurvana air ? In which category do you put them ?


 

 It will be among the mid /lower end of top-tier. Analytical, good soundstage, but light on bass and finicky on fitting because of the ear clip. However, great price for the SQ as Creative has lowered the price a lot. However, it is not easy to find unless you are in Signapore, China or Japan.


----------



## Zelda

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Yeah, there might be a problem as Dragon is 120ohm. I have the Charm 3 as well, not a bad earbuds at all. *The new AS-Feeling is quite good too*. Sunrise really has some nice earbuds recently.


 
  how about the Vsonic UU2 vs Feeling2 ? 
  what category would you rank them?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





zelda said:


> how about the Vsonic UU2 vs Feeling2 ?
> what category would you rank them?


 
   
  UU2 is more at the mid of category 2 (The Good). AS-Feeling is either at the top of category 2 or lower end of category 1 (The Great) - I haven't made up my mind yet.


----------



## Zelda

Quote: 





clieos said:


> UU2 is more at the mid of category 2 (The Good). *AS-Feeling is either at the top of category 2 or lower end of category 1 (The Great)* - I haven't made up my mind yet.


 
  sounds good! what kind of sound they have?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





zelda said:


> sounds good! what kind of sound they have?


 
   
  AS-Feeling has the Sunrise house sound, which is typically warm and sweet with a smooth treble. UU2 is kind of airy but not harsh, good clarity but lacks bass impact.


----------



## Zelda

Quote: 





clieos said:


> AS-Feeling has the Sunrise house sound, which is typically warm and sweet with a smooth treble. UU2 is kind of airy but not harsh, good clarity but lacks bass impact.


 
  i see. thank you. 
  neither of them an alternative/upgrade for the PK3 then


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





zelda said:


> i see. thank you.
> neither of them an alternative/upgrade for the PK3 then


 
   
  Well, not direct upgrade at least. M2c is the only earbud that I think can be properly called a PK3 upgrade.


----------



## Zelda

1) do you think the feeling2 is at the PK2 level?
   
  2) did you have a chance to try the OK's series?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





zelda said:


> 1) do you think the feeling2 is at the PK2 level?
> 
> 2) did you have a chance to try the OK's series?


 

 1) My last listen to PK2 is way too long ago so I realy don't remember much about it. But if I have to make an educational guess, I'll say they are close.
   
  2) No.


----------



## ostewart

What is your opinion on the Sunrise Dragon2?
  I really enjoy them amped with the JDS O2 amp.
  fast clean and detailed, slightly on the leaner side.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> What is your opinion on the Sunrise Dragon2?
> I really enjoy them amped with the JDS O2 amp.
> fast clean and detailed, slightly on the leaner side.


 
   
  Dangon 2 is an excellent earbud, definitely the best Sunrise has ever made and nothing less even compared to that of PK1. I really like it as well.


----------



## ostewart

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Dangon 2 is an excellent earbud, definitely the best Sunrise has ever made and nothing less even compared to that of PK1. I really like it as well.


 
  Glad you think so too, i always use foams with it.
   
  And some people ask how it is compared to PK1, i've not heard PK1, but what are the main differences?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> Glad you think so too, i always use foams with it.
> 
> And some people ask how it is compared to PK1, i've not heard PK1, but what are the main differences?


 
   
  PK1 has a denser, fuller mid range and smoothness over the whole range; Dragon 2 has wider image with better positioning and handle micro detail a little better. Otherwise the two share more similarity than difference.


----------



## ostewart

Thanks as always ClieOS!
Hope you like my reviews, you inspired me to become a reviewer.


----------



## purk

This is a re-post from the other earbuds thread.  But I would like to share my take on the MX-980.
   
   To my ears, the Senn MX-980 is an incredible earbuds.  I bought mine used recently for $100 and couldn't be happier.  Superb sound in many aspects.  By far, the best sounding earbuds in my experience.  I wonder how Sennheiser was able to manage to pull this off.  Listening to the 980 is like listening to a full-sized phones.  What I've found to be most impressive about the MX980 is its rendering of soundstage and the excellent imaging.  Heck, my JH13pro can't even best the MX980 in the soundstage & imaging department.  Of course, the 13pro is on another level on everything else though.
   
  Compared to my other buds namely Sony MDR-E484, E472, and E888.  The MX-980 slaughtered them all.  The difference is very noticeable even coming from the legendary Sony MDR-E484.  I'm using it out of my Sony NW-F807 unamped using nothing but Flac files.  Well done Sennheiser!!  Has anyone tried the MX-985?


----------



## Danneq

Yep, the MX980 are great. I'm also curious about the MX985, but since the MX980 are so great the MX985 can surely only have cosmetic changes...

 I still think that the sony E484 are great. The sound is much more in your face than the MX980, and the soundstage is smaller, but the music still feels layered. The E282 are slightly better than the E484, and I find the old E252 to be even better and very close to the MX980 (and Blox TM7 which sound as good as the MX980). It's sad that Sony made their best earbuds 30 years ago and then each model slowly got worse.
   
  If you have the opportunity, check out Blox ANV3 or TM7. Those are amazing as well!


----------



## purk

Quote: 





danneq said:


> Yep, the MX980 are great. I'm also curious about the MX985, but since the MX980 are so great the MX985 can surely only have cosmetic changes...
> 
> I still think that the sony E484 are great. The sound is much more in your face than the MX980, and the soundstage is smaller, but the music still feels layered. The E282 are slightly better than the E484, and I find the old E252 to be even better and very close to the MX980 (and Blox TM7 which sound as good as the MX980). It's sad that Sony made their best earbuds 30 years ago and then each model slowly got worse.
> 
> If you have the opportunity, check out Blox ANV3 or TM7. Those are amazing as well!


 
   
  Thanks.  I probably stop at the MX980 as I don't really need any more phones and my JH13 take care of the portable duties for me.
   
  To my ears, it is more difficult to achieve bigger and deeper soundstage for earbuds or IEMs.  Yes, I'm hearing what you are hearing about the E484.  I love my E484 and that's the primary reason why I held on to two of them for this long.  The E484 and E888 have tremendous sentimental value to me, as they were my constant companion during my college days together with my Sharp MD-SS323 player.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





danneq said:


> Yep, the MX980 are great. I'm also curious about the MX985, but since the MX980 are so great the MX985 can surely only have cosmetic changes...
> 
> I still think that the sony E484 are great. The sound is much more in your face than the MX980, and the soundstage is smaller, but the music still feels layered. The E282 are slightly better than the E484, and I find the old E252 to be even better and very close to the MX980 (and Blox TM7 which sound as good as the MX980). It's sad that Sony made their best earbuds 30 years ago and then each model slowly got worse.
> 
> If you have the opportunity, check out Blox ANV3 or TM7. Those are amazing as well!


 
   
  MX985 can be found on Japan much easier than any place, oddly enough. Even with shipping, it comes out around $150 or so and quite good consider its SQ and build quality. Other wise MX985 is just an very difficult to find earbuds, and often severally overpriced by the Hong Kong eBayer.
   
  I don't think Sony makes worst and worst earbuds over the last 30 years, but they just don't want to dedicate the resource to make good earbuds any more and naturally the quality decreased. They surge back for earphone on the recent years but it is for IEM and not earbuds. This is probably true for most brand name and an unfortunate news for earbuds lover.


----------



## purk

Quote: 





clieos said:


> MX985 can be found on Japan much easier than any place, oddly enough. Even with shipping, it comes out around $150 or so and quite good consider its SQ and build quality. Other wise MX985 is just an very difficult to find earbuds, and often severally overpriced by the Hong Kong eBayer.
> 
> I don't think Sony makes worst and worst earbuds over the last 30 years, but they just don't want to dedicate the resource to make good earbuds any more and naturally the quality decreased. They surge back for earphone on the recent years but it is for IEM and not earbuds. This is probably true for most brand name and an unfortunate news for earbuds lover.


 
   
  Well, it is quite sad but IEMs offer better bang for the bucks than earbuds...not to mention some passive noise canceling to boot.   I personally prefer custom IEM myself but will forever have a place for really good sounding pair of earbuds.


----------



## bonfirehay

Is the list in the first post ordered? i.e does ClieOS prefer Blox TM7 to HiSound Audio Living?
   
  Also would love to see where the MX980 would rank on the list. What are ClieOS thoughts on those?
   
  Thanks


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





bonfirehay said:


> Is the list in the first post ordered? i.e does ClieOS prefer Blox TM7 to HiSound Audio Living?


 
   
  Yes, it is in order of ranking. Also yes, ClieOS does prefer TM7.
   
  Quote: 





bonfirehay said:


> Also would love to see where the MX980 would rank on the list. What are ClieOS thoughts on those?


 
   
  MX980 has been discontinued, so ClieOS has no thought on it whatsoever. He does have a pair of MX985 and will add it to the list in time. But for a quick preview, he think it is on par with TM7.


----------



## tri adi

hi ClieOS. i'm new in this. but please help me decide which one i should choose. yuin pk1 (i own fiio e11 to amp it) or hi sound living? i own brainwavz b2, turned out i don't really into analytical type of sound. just found out that i'd prefer earbud rather than iem. thanks b4


----------



## Danneq

I'm sure that CloeOS can give you good advice, but I'd like to add my views as well.

 I don't own Yuin PK1 since I don't like high impedance earbuds, but I've got a pair of PK2 as well as a pair of Hisound audio Living. Overall, I'd say that the PK2 offer a more balanced sound, while the Living have less bass and more detail. The PK1 are better than the PK2, so I'd say that those are an even better choice than the Living.
   
  Are your inner ears big or small (not the ear canals, but the outer parts of your inner ear)? I can recommend the Sennheiser MX985 over both the Yuin PK1 & Hisound audio Living. Or the slightly older MX980. That model is discontinued but you can find it new if you are lucky, or second hand on Ebay. I am sure that there are no fakes of the MX980 sold on Ebay.
 The problem with MX980 (also with 985?) is that they are bigger than other earbuds, so if you have smaller inner ears, you will not get a good fit.

 I think that the Sennheiser MX980/985 together with the Blox TM7 are the best earbuds around. They are very detailed for earbuds and have good bass and a very open and big soundstage.


----------



## tri adi

danneq said:


> I'm sure that CloeOS can give you good advice, but I'd like to add my views as well.
> 
> 
> I don't own Yuin PK1 since I don't like high impedance earbuds, but I've got a pair of PK2 as well as a pair of Hisound audio Living. Overall, I'd say that the PK2 offer a more balanced sound, while the Living have less bass and more detail. The PK1 are better than the PK2, so I'd say that those are an even better choice than the Living.
> ...




thanks for the reply. guess imma get mx985 for sure. hope they still have it in jakarta.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





danneq said:


> Are your inner ears big or small (not the ear canals, but the outer parts of your inner ear)? *I can recommend the Sennheiser MX985* over both the Yuin PK1 & Hisound audio Living. Or the slightly older MX980. That model is discontinued but you can find it new if you are lucky, or second hand on Ebay. I am sure that there are no fakes of the MX980 sold on Ebay.


 
   
  That's exactly what I have recommended him over PM.


----------



## chrislangley4253

It makes me so sad to have small inner ears


----------



## fleasbaby

...was trawling about on eBay to see MX985/980 prices and found these...
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sennheiser-MX-400-In-Ear-Headphones-with-HARD-CASE-included-/281121288546?pt=US_Headphones&hash=item4174227162
   
  Do those casings look familiar at all?


----------



## F900EX

LOL


----------



## sh4d3

Quote: 





fleasbaby said:


> Do those casings look familiar at all?


----------



## bonfirehay

I wish M2C/TM7 were available. Got some MX760 but the cable not very ergonomic. Afraid MX985 suffers the same problem with the volume control and oversized plug..


----------



## fleasbaby

Just out of curiosity, how did the MX760 sound?


----------



## bonfirehay

Quote: 





fleasbaby said:


> Just out of curiosity, how did the MX760 sound?


 
   
  They have more bass then the Yuin Pk3, however not as tight. Nevertheless it's still more tight then the bass of the Apple Earpods. The bass has a certain woofer/surround feel I don't like so much, but it's minimal. They are warmer then the Yuin PK3 and more enjoyable overall then both. They are more sensitive then both. I would describe the sound of the Yuin PK3 to be more natural and less distracting, but the MX760 to be more detailed and provide more instrument separation.
   
  This review should be taken with a grain of salt since my Yuin PK3 were already broken before I got the MX760
   
  The weakest points of the MX760 are the cable, plugs, connectors, and the size of the earpieces. The yuin pk3 has a plug as small as the apple earpods, the cable is great, minimal and tangle free, and the earpieces are small and super confortable with foams, you practically don't feel them.


----------



## ClieOS

Actually you impression of MX760 is pretty much spotted on. Good job.


----------



## fleasbaby

Thanks for those notes...might try them out sometime. Hard to say no at the price. I have been enjoying a pair of PK3 lately, between Grado sessions, and they are a remarkable earbud. It's a little overkill, but I have been amping them with a graham Slee Voyager...


----------



## kanonathena

Hi, ClieOS
   
  How does the fit of Mx985 compare to TM7, is it even bigger shell?  How do you compare Mx985 to TM7 in terms of speed and soundstage?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





kanonathena said:


> Hi, ClieOS
> 
> How does the fit of Mx985 compare to TM7, is it even bigger shell?  How do you compare Mx985 to TM7 in terms of speed and soundstage?


 

 Diameter wise, TM7 is about 1mm or so wider. However, MX985's earpieces are rounded on the back so it is by no mean smaller in size.
   
  They are comparable in speed. TM7 is larger in soundstage as MX985 is more upfront in comparison.


----------



## kanonathena

Another question, ClieOS. How forward is MX985? Is it forward like M2C? How does the speed and soundstage compare to M2C? How is the width and depth of MX985? How is the bass amount compare to Pk1? Do you think it is suitable for classical music? Sorry about all these question, I'm desperate for a pair of earbuds with good speed and soundstage.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





kanonathena said:


> Another question, ClieOS. How forward is MX985? Is it forward like M2C? How does the speed and soundstage compare to M2C? How is the width and depth of MX985? How is the bass amount compare to Pk1? Do you think it is suitable for classical music? Sorry about all these question, I'm desperate for a pair of earbuds with good speed and soundstage.


 
   
  No as forwarded as M2c, and has bigger soundstage. MX985 is just a really good all-arounder and I have not found any real weakness on it. TM7 might have a bigger soundstage but it doesn't in any way means MX985 is poor in that aspect. In fact, I am inclined to think MX985 is more adaptive than TM7 when it comes to different genre of music. It is just a terrific earbuds.


----------



## JK1

I would like to see a hybrid between earbuds and IEMs. While I like using an isolating IEM sometimes, I need to use something very open to hear my surroundings at other times. The problem with traditional earbuds is that they fall out much too easily, and the ones with earhooks are cumbersome and the hooks might not fit properly.
   
  I really like the Sennheiser MX580 except for the volume control. I wish Sennheiser would bring it back, but this time leave off the volume control. They could price it even cheaper then. I paid $23 each for MX580 earphones a few years ago. I was an idiot as I only bought two of them before they were gone. I kept telling myself there would be a better replacement, or even the same thing but without the vey annoying volume control. Imo the MX580 was almost as good as the Sony E888 but at a much lower price.


----------



## purk

Is the MX985 an improvement over MX980? 
   
   


> Imo the MX580 was almost as good as the Sony E888 but at a much lower price.


 
   
  The E888 these days are getting pricier.  The E888 in Japan are now commanding over $130.


----------



## laon

Quote: 





jk1 said:


> I would like to see a hybrid between earbuds and IEMs. While I like using an isolating IEM sometimes, I need to use something very open to hear my surroundings at other times. The problem with traditional earbuds is that they fall out much too easily, and the ones with earhooks are cumbersome and the hooks might not fit properly.
> 
> I really like the Sennheiser MX580 except for the volume control. I wish Sennheiser would bring it back, but this time leave off the volume control. They could price it even cheaper then. I paid $23 each for MX580 earphones a few years ago. I was an idiot as I only bought two of them before they were gone. I kept telling myself there would be a better replacement, or even the same thing but without the vey annoying volume control. Imo the MX580 was almost as good as the Sony E888 but at a much lower price.


 

 MX580 is still available on amazon and local shop here


----------



## JK1

MX580 is not available from Amazon. It is available from some third party sellers I never heard of before on Amazon, and for over $50 with shipping. I only like to buy Sennheiser products from authorized dealers, as I worry about the possibility of not getting a real one. One seller wants $74 plus $110 shipping! $110 shipping for an earphone????? This is not a 30 foot couch!


----------



## laon

Quote: 





jk1 said:


> $110 shipping for an earphone????? This is not a 30 foot couch!


 

 PK1 is worth every penny I paid for it, and then some.


----------



## JK1

Quote: 





laon said:


> PK1 is worth every penny I paid for it, and then some.


 
  You didn't pay $110 SHIIPPING when you bought your PK1. What did it cost, around $180?


----------



## laon

Whoops yeah I did not, that seller looks dodgy guess the 0% ranking is not coincidence. At least I could get MX580 for about $50 here, of course it's not like I would though.


----------



## JK1

Quote: 





laon said:


> MX580 is still available on amazon and local shop here


 
  Are you in Europe? it seems like in the US the MX580 disappeared around a year and half ago.


----------



## laon

Quote: 





jk1 said:


> Are you in Europe? it seems like in the US the MX580 disappeared around a year and half ago.


 

 I'm in Asia, it looks like we still have some stock left on this part of the world. Those Amazon affiliates are also mostly based on Asia.


----------



## Sparky191

Quote: 





jk1 said:


> I would like to see a hybrid between earbuds and IEMs. While I like using an isolating IEM sometimes, I need to use something very open to hear my surroundings at other times. The problem with traditional earbuds is that they fall out much too easily, and the ones with earhooks are cumbersome and the hooks might not fit properly....


 
   
  I have the MX760 and also MX460, As you say great when you need to hear your surroundings. I don't know what is similar in current models.  
   
  For a hybrid design I like the design of Sony earphones that came with the A818 (Sony MDREX85) and X1050 (MDR-NC020). The MDREX85 I could never find for reasonable money when mine broke, and the NC020 only work with the X1050/60 players. I'd love to know what is the current sony equivalent of the EX85. 
   
  I'm using a CX200 at the moment for night time as you can lie on them. Which I can't with the MX ones as I lose the sponges and the NC020 stick out too far to be comfortable. I never like the CX300 as being too bassy.


----------



## ejheflin

No love for the PK2?  Perhaps i need to broaden my portfolio...


----------



## fleasbaby

I had 'em for a while...they just never sounded right to me, not sure why...I have heard some on this thread sing their praises though...


----------



## laon

Quote: 





ejheflin said:


> No love for the PK2?  Perhaps i need to broaden my portfolio...


 

 I prefer PK1


----------



## blazer78

I ordered the MX985  After I felt that the 9Wave Studio Pro W was a complete disappointment compared to my ATH-CM7Ti


----------



## kjk1281

Thanks for the update Tai, even though it was probably the last. 

I'll be looking for your earbud reviews in your corner of the web, but with you no longer posting, there are no more earbud reviewers left on Head-Fi...



blazer78 said:


> I ordered the MX985




Be sure to post your impressions when you get them. I'm glad I finally got myself a pair!


----------



## ejheflin

Quote: 





laon said:


> I prefer PK1


 
  I had a PK2 for about 2 years and LOVED them. They were recently stolen and now i am debating on springing for the PK1 or just replacing the PK2's. I use them with my android phone for my morning run and then on my laptop all day long at work. I keep reading great things about the PK1s (when properly amped). I really don't want to carry an amp and im afraid that its going to be a waste unamped.
   
  I also read about the BLOX TM5 but it seems absolutely impossible to find anywhere...
   
  Would love some input before i pull the trigger.


----------



## ClieOS

Blox is just damn hard to find, but totally worth it if you can find it. TM5 has already been discontinued for many years now, you are more likely to find TM7, ANV3, ANV3se or M2c from Blox. If you don't want to spend time hunting down a Blox, get yourself a Sennheiser MX985.


----------



## fleasbaby

I liked my PK1 a lot, but an amp is a must, even if its just a little FiiO E6.


----------



## RASeymour

The Sennheiser MX985 seem to be difficult to find in the U.S.  A search only brings them up under Amazon U.K.  Amazon U.S. only has them through a re-seller at high price.  I wonder why so difficult to find in U.S.  Discontinued?


----------



## kjk1281

The MX985 was never released here in the US. I ended up purchasing my pair from e-earphone in Japan and had them forwarded via Tenso. They seem to be out of stock currently, and Amazon Japan either sells them for way above normal street price (which is about ¥10,800) or has them available only from third party sellers. 

Another option is to check the other European Amazon sites. Amazon Spain has them for about $130 shipped.
-


----------



## laon

Quote: 





ejheflin said:


> I had a PK2 for about 2 years and LOVED them. They were recently stolen and now i am debating on springing for the PK1 or just replacing the PK2's. I use them with my android phone for my morning run and then on my laptop all day long at work. I keep reading great things about the PK1s (when properly amped). I really don't want to carry an amp and im afraid that its going to be a waste unamped.
> 
> I also read about the BLOX TM5 but it seems absolutely impossible to find anywhere...
> 
> Would love some input before i pull the trigger.


 

 Well then PK1 is probably too cumbersome to use with amp, not to mention it still wouldn't sound noticeably better since you're using it outside. MX985 is probably a better choice, can't say much since I haven't heard it.


----------



## steampunk

kjk1281 said:


> The MX985 was never released here in the US. I ended up purchasing my pair from e-earphone in Japan and had them forwarded via Tenso. They seem to be out of stock currently, and Amazon Japan either sells them for way above normal street price (which is about ¥10,800) or has them available only from third party sellers.
> 
> Another option is to check the other European Amazon sites. Amazon Spain has them for about $130 shipped.
> -




I found this from Hongkong Ebay, dunno its fake or not.
Because the price is too much different with Japan Ebay.


----------



## laon

Quote: 





steampunk said:


> I found this from Hongkong Ebay, dunno its fake or not.
> Because the price is too much different with Japan Ebay.


 

 Do you honestly believe that the japan's is the sane priced one?


----------



## ejheflin

I found the MX985 for $119 shipped from accessoryjack.com. I did a little googling on them and they appear to be legit. Anyone ever heard of these guys? Here is a link to the listing: http://www.accessoryjack.com/sennheiser-mx985-earphones-with-3-button-remote-for-iphone-ipad-ipod-black.html


----------



## JK1

Quote: 





ejheflin said:


> I found the MX985 for $119 shipped from accessoryjack.com. I did a little googling on them and they appear to be legit. Anyone ever heard of these guys? Here is a link to the listing: http://www.accessoryjack.com/sennheiser-mx985-earphones-with-3-button-remote-for-iphone-ipad-ipod-black.html


 
  Unless this is a very new  model (MX985i?) it seems like an error though as everything I read says the MX985 has a volume control but no ipod remote.
   
http://www.sennheisernordic.com/nordic/home_en.nsf/root/press_releases_300812-perfect-soundhttp://www.sennheisernordic.com/nordic/home_en.nsf/root/press_releases_300812-perfect-sound
   
  Some people on the forums here said they ordered from Accessory Jack and everything was fine. Search the forums. I would question them about the ipod controls though.


----------



## bonfirehay

Quote: 





jk1 said:


> Unless this is a very new  model (MX985i?) it seems like an error though as everything I read says the MX985 has a volume control but no ipod remote.
> 
> http://www.sennheisernordic.com/nordic/home_en.nsf/root/press_releases_300812-perfect-soundhttp://www.sennheisernordic.com/nordic/home_en.nsf/root/press_releases_300812-perfect-sound
> 
> Some people on the forums here said they ordered from Accessory Jack and everything was fine. Search the forums. I would question them about the ipod controls though.


 
   
  So the volume control is a resistance in the cable, not adjusted in the iPod?


----------



## JK1

Yes, the volume control is a resistance in the cable for the MX985. I hate having the volume control on the cable on my MX580, as if the volume isn't set on maximum on the control, the volume on the two channels may differ. The volume control on the MX985 may be better, but it is still a weight on the cable that makes it easier for the earbuds to fall out of the ears. it also is a nuisance when you try to wind up the earphone cord to put them away. Imo Sennheiser should put the volume control on a short extension cable on future models, so people can have the option of using it with the volume control or without it.


----------



## fleasbaby

That volume control has always stopped me from trying the MX980/MX985...


----------



## Glow Fish

Has anyone tried the Sunrise Dragon 2? Might be a good follow up to the PK 2.


----------



## fleasbaby

Not the Dragon II, but I have been using the AS Feeling...it's a little too neutral for my tastes, but still worth keeping instead of selling.


----------



## Harijs

Hi!
  Which should I choose and why:
  YUIN PK3 ($28) or HiSoundAudio PAA-1pro ($50)
  Other sugestions? Budget <$50
  Thanks.


----------



## laon

Paa-1 pro has better bass but the mid is recessed, I personally like PK3 more.


----------



## Harijs

Quote: 





laon said:


> Paa-1 pro has better bass but the mid is recessed, I personally like PK3 more.


 
  Paa-1 is more V-shaped than PK3?


----------



## laon

I wouldn't call it v-shaped, they both have rather subdued high. I suppose Paa-1 pro is the more "fun" earbud to listen for most people.


----------



## ejheflin

Quote: 





jk1 said:


> Yes, the volume control is a resistance in the cable for the MX985. I hate having the volume control on the cable on my MX580, as if the volume isn't set on maximum on the control, the volume on the two channels may differ. The volume control on the MX985 may be better, but it is still a weight on the cable that makes it easier for the earbuds to fall out of the ears. it also is a nuisance when you try to wind up the earphone cord to put them away. Imo Sennheiser should put the volume control on a short extension cable on future models, so people can have the option of using it with the volume control or without it.


 
  I just got the MX985 this week and wished that i listened to you. They sound good but they fall out of my ears when running. The little metal volume slider certainly doesn't help. Perhaps they are also a bit big for my ears, or im just used to the smaller yuins fitting in deeper with the lighter plastic. Sigh, I may see about swapping them out for some pk1's instead.


----------



## Danneq

Quote: 





ejheflin said:


> I just got the MX985 this week and wished that i listened to you. They sound good but they fall out of my ears when running. The little metal volume slider certainly doesn't help. Perhaps they are also a bit big for my ears, or im just used to the smaller yuins fitting in deeper with the lighter plastic. Sigh, I may see about swapping them out for some pk1's instead.


 
   
  Have you removed the silicone ring around the tip of the earbud? After doing that, the MX980 fit my ears much better even if have foams on them. The silicone rings are easy to remove, and not as easy to put back in case you want to sell them, and removing them do make for a better overall fit.
   
  I read earlier in the thread that you liked the Yuin PK2. Why not buy a pair of PK2 for when you are out running and then using the MX985 other times? I think both are great and I will not get rid of my pair of PK2's. There are other earbuds that are better overall, but I love the airy sound of the PK2.


----------



## bonfirehay

There is nothing better in fit and confort for me than yuins.
  If got myself the MX760 but am considering going back to PK3 because of ergonomics..


----------



## ejheflin

Quote: 





danneq said:


> Have you removed the silicone ring around the tip of the earbud? After doing that, the MX980 fit my ears much better even if have foams on them. The silicone rings are easy to remove, and not as easy to put back in case you want to sell them, and removing them do make for a better overall fit.
> 
> I read earlier in the thread that you liked the Yuin PK2. Why not buy a pair of PK2 for when you are out running and then using the MX985 other times? I think both are great and I will not get rid of my pair of PK2's. There are other earbuds that are better overall, but I love the airy sound of the PK2.


 
  I have not removed the ring. I may look into that. I sent an email to inquire about returning them but i suspect that with international shipping and possible restocking fee will kill that. I did mention that i loved my PK2's and it gave me the bug i guess. When they were stolen it made me wonder if i loved them so much, maybe i would like ______ better. Hence the upgrade fever. If i can't return/sell these for a decent price i prob will just get a pk2 for jogging and keep the MX985's for my work listening. Sure wish there was a local place to demo the PK1 though. That will always be in the back of my mind...


----------



## JK1

Even the PK1 will probably fall out of your ears when running. Even when walking traditional earbuds tend to fall out of my ears which is why I now mostly use traditional earbuds with ear hooks while walking around. For years I used traditional earbuds without ear hooks while walking around, however I am willing to sacrifice some sound quality to avoid the nuisance of having earbuds falling out. The $11 Panasonic RP-HS 33 has nice highs, but not such great bass. With the bass boosted 8db on my player though, the RP-HS33 is quite adequate while I am active and need to hear my surroundings. The $9 JVC HA-EB75 has slightly lower sound quality than the RP-HS33, but will fit better on those with smaller ears. It also needs a +8 db  bass boost.


----------



## kanonathena

Quote: 





danneq said:


> Have you removed the silicone ring around the tip of the earbud? After doing that, the MX980 fit my ears much better even if have foams on them. The silicone rings are easy to remove, and not as easy to put back in case you want to sell them, and removing them do make for a better overall fit.
> 
> I read earlier in the thread that you liked the Yuin PK2. Why not buy a pair of PK2 for when you are out running and then using the MX985 other times? I think both are great and I will not get rid of my pair of PK2's. There are other earbuds that are better overall, but I love the airy sound of the PK2.


 
   
   
  Hi Danneq
   
  Can you wear MX985 without the silicone ring and foam? Does big is the shell comparing to the PK2 after the ring is removed?


----------



## Danneq

Quote: 





ejheflin said:


> I have not removed the ring. I may look into that. I sent an email to inquire about returning them but i suspect that with international shipping and possible restocking fee will kill that. I did mention that i loved my PK2's and it gave me the bug i guess. When they were stolen it made me wonder if i loved them so much, maybe i would like ______ better. Hence the upgrade fever. If i can't return/sell these for a decent price i prob will just get a pk2 for jogging and keep the MX985's for my work listening. Sure wish there was a local place to demo the PK1 though. That will always be in the back of my mind...


 
   
   
  I think you should try them without the silicone ring. It does make some difference. I have not heard the PK1 and I would not be surprised if they are much better than the PK2, but I don't like the idea of being forced to use a headphone amplifier for earbuds. That's why I stay away from high impedance earbuds such as PK1, Sunrise Charm & Sunrise Dragon 2...

 Like JK1 writes above, earbuds with hooks can be a good solution. There doesn't seem to be an OMX985 released, but you could see if you can find a pair of OMX980. I think I saw a pair of those in the For sale forum a while ago...
   
  Quote: 





kanonathena said:


> Hi Danneq
> 
> Can you wear MX985 without the silicone ring and foam? Does big is the shell comparing to the PK2 after the ring is removed?


 
   
  I have the MX980, not the MX985. The basic design and size of the housing seem to be identical, so I think I can comment on the size of the MX985.
 I can use my MX980 without either the silicone rings or foams, but I think they stick easier in your ears if there is something that creates friction. The PK2 are small enough to go into your outer ear and sort of hook into place. The MX980 doesn't do that and might fall out or become loose if you move too much.


----------



## goldenSHK

So is there a consensus for a best sounding earbud that has an inline mic and volume control *both*? I'd really like to have a high quality earbud connected to my smartphone at all times for taking calls and listening to music instead of lugging around my full size closed cans. Before anyone says IEMs, I prefer earbuds due to comfort, but if there doesn't seem to be a tier 1 earbud with both inline mic and volume controls I guess I'll look into IEMs at that point. Basically I am looking for the best sounding, most convenient/feature packed earbud. Thank you for any suggestions. I was looking at the Sennheiser 985s, but unfortunately they do not have the inline mic.


----------



## kanonathena

Quote: 





danneq said:


> I can use my MX980 without either the silicone rings or foams, but I think they stick easier in your ears if there is something that creates friction. The PK2 are small enough to go into your outer ear and sort of hook into place. The MX980 doesn't do that and might fall out or become loose if you move too much.


 
   
  So with silicon ring removed the shell of mx980 is even smaller then pk2? If that's the case the big shell problem of mx980 is solved for me.


----------



## Danneq

Quote: 





kanonathena said:


> So with silicon ring removed the shell of mx980 is even smaller then pk2? If that's the case the big shell problem of mx980 is solved for me.


 
   
  No, it's still bigger than the PK2. I think that without both silicone ring and foams the MX980 are still bigger than the PK2 with foams. But without silicone ring, at least for me the fit becomes much better.


----------



## laon

Funnily enough I need to use double foam to make PK1 secure in my ears, Guess I would not have problem with MX985.


----------



## Hghuy

Guys,how to fit the earbud properly?there is no instruction to fit it perfectly


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





hghuy said:


> Guys,how to fit the earbud properly?there is no instruction to fit it perfectly


 
   
  Because there isn't any one way that will fit everyone perfectly. Basically it is a trial and error process.


----------



## Hghuy

I asked that because there is way to fit iem properly.there may be a general way for earbud


----------



## purk

Quote: 





hghuy said:


> I asked that because there is way to fit iem properly.there may be a general way for earbud


 
  Your buds maybe too small or too large for your ears if you can't get it to fit right.  If too small, try foam cushion to see if you can get a better fit.


----------



## Danneq

Earbuds are all about trial and error. Some earbuds are just too big for some people's ears...

 On another note. I want to tip y'all about this seller on Ebay who sells DIY earbuds. He's got DIY mods of Yuin PK2 & PK3 and a mod of Sennheiser MX500 as well as a DIY mod of a generic design. I have won two auctions - one for the cheapest model ($6.50 in total) and one for a pair of modded PK2 ($18,50 in total). I don't expect big things from the earbuds, but it's interesting to try out. Also I'm looking forward to compare the modded PK2 to my pair.
 I should receive them next week...


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





danneq said:


> On another note. I want to tip y'all about this seller on Ebay who sells DIY earbuds. He's got DIY mods of Yuin PK2 & PK3 and a mod of Sennheiser MX500 as well as a DIY mod of a generic design. I have won two auctions - one for the cheapest model ($6.50 in total) and one for a pair of modded PK2 ($18,50 in total). I don't expect big things from the earbuds, but it's interesting to try out. Also I'm looking forward to compare the modded PK2 to my pair.
> I should receive them next week...


 
   
  Do update us about those DIY Yuin. I have been looking at them for a while now, not sure whether if this guy is real or too much wishing thinking.


----------



## fleasbaby

The seller doesn't mention what he does to the buds...aside from the re-cable, do you think he is doing anything else? I saw a mysterious white glob on those PK3....


----------



## Danneq

I'm a bit suspicious about DIY, but for less than $20 I can take a chance. I'll compare them to my PK2 and post my impressions...


----------



## fleasbaby

I have never been the biggest PK2 fan, but I am a sucker for modded/DIY kit...the PK3 might be worth a go...and I see he does a version of the MX500.


----------



## Zelda

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Do update us about those DIY Yuin. I have been looking at them for a while now, not sure whether if this guy is real or too much wishing thinking.


 
  x2. i tried to win an auction there, but no luck. would try again if they're the real thing


----------



## Danneq

Quote: 





zelda said:


> x2. i tried to win an auction there, but no luck. would try again if they're the real thing


 
   
  Well, he keps putting new ones up, and some auctions finish under $20. My auction finished at $18.50. The one after that finished at $15.50. If it really sounds anywhere close to Yuin PK2 that's a great price.


----------



## chrislangley4253

eagerly awaiting impressions danneq!


----------



## audiobot

Hey ClieOS, why not add the Bose mie2 buds to this list? I'm really interested in seeing how they stack up to the Blox. They are essentially a pair of earbuds since the ear tips do not deeply insert into the ear canal. Also, does the bass response on the* *ES903 good enough for hip-hop? Thanks in advance.


----------



## KillerQ

danneq said:


> I'm a bit suspicious about DIY, but for less than $20 I can take a chance. I'll compare them to my PK2 and post my impressions...




Danneq, 

Can't wait to hear your DIY / PK2 analysis!


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





audiobot said:


> Hey ClieOS, why not add the Bose mie2 buds to this list? I am really interested to see how they stack up to the Blox. They are essentially a pair of earbuds since the ear tips do not go in entirely. Also, does the base response on the* *ES903 good enough for hip-hop? Thanks in advance.


 
   
  Just got a chance to listen to MIE2 a few days ago - yes, you are right that it doesn't go into the ear canal at all and should be considered as earbud. I don't have one to listen in detail so it is not going into the ranking, but the SQ is actually quite good.
   
  ES903 does quite well with hip-hop, but I am not a big hip-hop fan so I don't know how much can be counted as enough. Personally I find it to be adequate.


----------



## KillerQ

clieos said:


> Do update us about those DIY Yuin. I have been looking at them for a while now, not sure whether if this guy is real or too much wishing thinking.




I just won an auction for the DIY PK2's from the seller mentioned a few posts ago - the total only came to $15.99 U. S. shipped!


----------



## Danneq

Quote: 





killerq said:


> I just won an auction for the DIY PK2's from the seller mentioned a few posts ago - the total only came to $15.99 U. S. shipped!


 
   
  That's a great price! I paid $18.50 for my pair. It hasn't arrived yet, though...


----------



## Danneq

I got something in the mail today...
  
  A pair of DIY earbuds from the seller who's got the modded PK2 earbuds.
   

   
   
  I paid $6,50 for this pair and it's well worth it! Heck, I'd pay $50 or more for this!
   
  The sound character is a bit on the dark side, a bit like Sennheiser MX400, but with an actual 3D soundstage! Bass doesn't go very deep, and mids feel a bit harsh compared to the lush mids on PK2. But this pair of earbuds has got a soundstage that can almost rival the Blox TM7. Well, at least in depth. It hasn't got the same resolution and instrument separation as the TM7, but for someone like me, who loves a deep soundstage, these earbuds are keepers!

 Heck, they easily walk all over my Hisoundaudio Living when it comes to soundstage, and they do it without sounding thin with harsh highs. I have nothing against Hisoundaudio, but I feel that the guy making these earbuds could make better earbuds than them, while not beating Yuin or Blox.

 Listening to Kate Bush (Oh to be in Love from The Kick Inside), and the soundstage feels really expansive in the beginning. Damn, these earbuds make me don't really miss my Aiwa or Sony vintage earbuds when it comes to soundstage!
   

   
   
  The DIY guy seems to have come across cheap Audio Technica earbuds and taken parts from them. The jack plug and Y splitter have got ATH symbols on them.

   
   
  Or are these ATH earbuds that he has modded? These earbuds don't sound anything like my CM7 or CM700...
  Actually the design does remind me of EC700 when I compare photos.

 Anyway, these earbuds are definitely worth trying out!


----------



## Hghuy

How about the DIY pk2?also he has another DIY Mx500 give it a try and left us impressions.


----------



## KillerQ

danneq said:


> I got something in the mail today...
> 
> 
> A pair of DIY earbuds from the seller who's got the modded PK2 earbuds.
> ...





Great review! 

By the way, Are you aware of any songs that when, listened to with low-end earbuds, there are parts that are simply missed/not audible - but when listened to on quality buds, the sound is noticeable? I am looking for some good songs that will make me say "wow, I never heard that part before" - to let me know that the trouble and money of these nicer earbuds are worth it.....haha.

Thanks, 

Matt!


----------



## Danneq

Quote: 





hghuy said:


> How about the DIY pk2?also he has another DIY Mx500 give it a try and left us impressions.


 
   
  I have not yet received the PK2. I'm interested in the DIY MX500 and might buy it in a few weeks. But they are really cheap, so I think you should take a chance and buy them and post YOUR impressions!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





killerq said:


> Great review!
> 
> By the way, Are you aware of any songs that when, listened to with low-end earbuds, there are parts that are simply missed/not audible - but when listened to on quality buds, the sound is noticeable? I am looking for some good songs that will make me say "wow, I never heard that part before" - to let me know that the trouble and money of these nicer earbuds are worth it.....haha.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well, I wouldn't call it a review.  More like some impressions. ClieOS, who started this thread, is a great reviewer. I'm just an earbud freak who likes to share his impressions...
   
  For me, the biggest difference between low- and high-end earbuds is in how the soundstage is presented. Really good ones can give you a sense of 3D space, where you do not only hear instruments along the width of the soundstage, but also deeper in the soundstage in front of you. It's even better if there's good layering and you can "sense" instruments at different depths in front of you.
 Still, there are a lot of great earbuds that has little to no depth in the soundstage: Audio Technica CM700 and Yuin PK2 are two examples. ATH CM700 has got a very clean and almost analytic sound signature and sounds great. PK2 has got wonderful mids and a very airy quality to its sound. When it comes to the PK2, I don't really miss not having any depth in the soundstage. 

 Anyway, you would have to go REALLY low-end for things to become inaudible. Usually you can hear most of what's going on, but sometimes the instruments sort of blend into each other (i.e. lack resolution) and when you change to a better pair of earbuds, you can hear the individual instruments much better. As for songs, I mainly use my head- and earphones to listen to the music I like. Sometimes it can be a well produced album, and sometimes something like a thrash metal demo from the 80's with really crappy production. The Kate Bush album is an example of a well produced album (long before the loudness war started...)
 There are audiophile recordings, but I don't really know much about that.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Speaking in Tongues - Talking Heads 

 My favorite test album.

 Those buds are interesting danneq, how is the size on them. They are bigger than yuins, yes? My dumb ears can't fit anything bigger than a yuin. Still eagerly awaiting your impressions on the diy pk2.


----------



## Aitch

Quote: 





goldenshk said:


> So is there a consensus for a best sounding earbud that has an inline mic and volume control *both*? I'd really like to have a high quality earbud connected to my smartphone at all times for taking calls and listening to music instead of lugging around my full size closed cans. Before anyone says IEMs, I prefer earbuds due to comfort, but if there doesn't seem to be a tier 1 earbud with both inline mic and volume controls I guess I'll look into IEMs at that point. Basically I am looking for the best sounding, most convenient/feature packed earbud. Thank you for any suggestions. I was looking at the Sennheiser 985s, but unfortunately they do not have the inline mic.


 
   
  I'm looking for the same and am gob-smacked that there isn't a huge market for high-end earbuds for phones!
   
  I've heard that adding a mic inline can/does reduce sound quality - is this true?


----------



## KillerQ

aitch said:


> I'm looking for the same and am gob-smacked that there isn't a huge market for high-end earbuds for phones!
> 
> I've heard that adding a mic inline can/does reduce sound quality - is this true?




Technically, yes. Anytime additional circuitry is added to a component, unwanted noise and draw is introduced. The extent of this, and the measures in place to reduce this is beyond my pay grade.


----------



## nammoc

Hi ClieOS,

Which one between Ubiquo ES903, CM707, 9wave Studio Pro will you recommend if I mainly listen to pop and female vocal?


----------



## ClieOS

ES903. CM707 will work if you are willing to EQ the treble up a bit.


----------



## marlonmarabe

Quote: 





nammoc said:


> Hi ClieOS,
> 
> Which one between Ubiquo ES903, CM707, 9wave Studio Pro will you recommend if I mainly listen to pop and female vocal?


 
   
  i got the es903. very good for pop. my sleeping earbuds


----------



## Danneq

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Do update us about those DIY Yuin. I have been looking at them for a while now, not sure whether if this guy is real or too much wishing thinking.


 


 This guy's for real!

 Will update more later, but I can say that the modded PK2 don't sound exactly like the regular ones. They are a bit more quiet and the mids are less forward. However, the soundstage has got a very good depth/3D feel, something that the regular PK2 lacks completly. Just imagine the soundstage on the regular PK2 as an accordian that's pushed together. This guy's mods seem to have pulled out the accordian/soundstage so that you get a great sense of depth, and better imaging and instrument separation as well. Much of the nice PK2 mids seem to have gotten lost in the process, but now I would say that these earbuds are closer to the Blox ANV3 & TM7, and Sennheiser MX980 when it comes to the overall balance.

 You SHOULD REALLY get the cheap Dasetn Audio AP8 (the ones I wrote about before) considering the price (around $10). The modded PK2 are also a sure recommendation!

 Like I wrote, I'll compare the regular PK2 to the modded version later.

 Edit: the only concerns I have is about how he can be consistent in the earbuds he makes. If it's all DIY, how can he guaranteee that all earbuds from the same series sound similar?


----------



## chrislangley4253

I'mma buy one of his DIY PK2's, can't resist.


----------



## Hghuy

Danneq surely give this guy a big promotion .i have a pair of yuin pk2 from this guy but do not have the original so i can not compare but one thing i do not like is the cable is not straight down but curve


----------



## Danneq

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> I'mma buy one of his DIY PK2's, can't resist.


 
   
  You should try to win an auction. $40 with free shipping is good considering how they sound, but you can get them cheap if you win an auction. I won my pair for $18,50 and I've seen them go for less than that.
   
   
  Quote: 





hghuy said:


> Danneq surely give this guy a big promotion
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  If he can keep the quality on what he makes, he could be a competitor to Blox and Yuin. The cable is harder than on regular Yuin earbuds, but it feels like quality cables.
 Overall, the regular Yuin has got a more forward and lively presentation. I really like the sweet mids on it.
 The modded version feels much more distant, so you have to turn the volume up a bit. But what you lose in forwardness you gain in sense of soundstage.
 Yuin should hire the guy and release this earbud as Yuin PK22 or Yuin PK2 V2 (or something like that).


----------



## Aitch

Are they really Yuin components though?
   
  Is he using another little-know (and much cheaper) brand and selling them as Yuin?
   
  Does Yuin really sell their gear for other people to Mod?


----------



## bonfirehay

How is the size of the Dasetn Audio AP8 compared with the Yuin PK3?
  Got the MX760 but am thinking about replacing them with some PK3 because they are smaller, more confortable and faster to fit.


----------



## Danneq

Quote: 





aitch said:


> Are they really Yuin components though?
> 
> Is he using another little-know (and much cheaper) brand and selling them as Yuin?
> 
> Does Yuin really sell their gear for other people to Mod?


 
   
  The housing is definitely the same as the Yuin PK series. There are no markings on the earbuds except for the L and R. They do sound different from the PK2, but to my ears the difference is mainly the soundstage being deeper. There's no loss of detail or anything. Rather you get more detail becuase of the improved depth and sense of instrument placement in the soundstage. However, you do lose much of the great mids from the regular PK2. The overall sound character of the PK2 mod would be a PK2 where you are moved further back from the stage. You lose the intimate feel but instead get a better overview.
 I have always experienced the PK2 as very 2D in its presentation. I really like the mids and the airy quality, but at the same time I love deep soundstages, like on Blox TM7, Sennheiser MX980 and vintage earbuds such as Aiwa HP D9 and Sony MDR-E252. To my ears. there's a definite depth in the soundstage on both the AP8 and PK2 mod that's lacking in most current earbud models.

 Overall, the build quality of both the AP8 and PK2 mod feel like very high quality. I'd say they feel more professional than the Blox earbuds (even if they don't reach the same level in sound). The AP8 must be made from counterfeit ATH EC700 parts that the seller has got cheap (ATH EC700 is an older clip-on earbud model from Audio Technica). The housing appears to be the same as on the ATH EC700 and there's the ATH logo on the Y splitter and on the plug. If I didn't know better, I would mistake them for a new ATH earbud model.
 I don't know how the EC700 sounds like. I do have the CM700, which is the regular earbud model released around the same time as the EC700. I don't know if the AP8 sounds anything like the EC700, but it sounds nothing like the CM700. CM700 has got much smoother mids and a more clear quality to its sound. The AP8 sounds more rough around the edges, as if the mids aren't fully "tamed". But while the CM700 has got a wider soundstage than the AP8, it doesn't have much depth. The AP8 has got good depth and okay width. For something that costs around $10 it sounds amazing.
   
   
  Quote: 





bonfirehay said:


> How is the size of the Dasetn Audio AP8 compared with the Yuin PK3?
> Got the MX760 but am thinking about replacing them with some PK3 because they are smaller, more confortable and faster to fit.


 

 The AP8 are about as big as the MX760 and bigger than the PK series housings.


----------



## Danneq

Here are some photos of the PK2 mod and AP8:
   
   
   
  First, the PK2 mod:

   
  I received a case with the earbuds:

   
  The mod feels more sturdy than the regular PK2, with the cable, Y splitter and plug looking and feeling like quality stuff:

   
  A closer look at the Y-splitter:

   
  The grill is the same as on the regular PK2:

   
   
   
   
  Comparison between the regular PK2 and the modded version: Thicker, right?
   



   
   
  Two more photos of the AP8, with the Audio Technica plug:


----------



## bonfirehay

Ok, I'm sick of my mx 760. I hate the cable, the plug, and the bass causes them to distort easily (this is my second pair)
   
  Since the MC2 are not available I'm thinking in buying a my 3rd pair of PK3. Anyone knows where these can be bought with shipping to europe?
  Buying in ebay is risky because of the counterfeit ones right?
   
  Thanks in advance.


----------



## Sparky191

you must crank the bass I've never had my mx760 distort. even with dance tracks but I generally use a flat eq. are the pk3 still the closest thing I thought they'd be something new by now


----------



## Danneq

Quote: 





bonfirehay said:


> Ok, I'm sick of my mx 760. I hate the cable, the plug, and the bass causes them to distort easily (this is my second pair)
> 
> Since the MC2 are not available I'm thinking in buying a my 3rd pair of PK3. Anyone knows where these can be bought with shipping to europe?
> Buying in ebay is risky because of the counterfeit ones right?
> ...


 


 I second Sparky191. The MX760 don't distort from bass. They must be broken or you are pushing the volume too high.

 About Yuin earbuds, I don't think that it is common with fakes. I've bought 2 pairs of PK2 & 2 pairs of PK3 from Ebay sellers with good reputation. I have no reason to doubt that I have received the real thing. Chinese are not interested in copying Chinese brands. They care about Japanese, German or US brands. Just about all Audio Technica headphones are copied in China. The same is true for Sennheiser. But usually Chinese look down in domestic brands and therefore those do not need to worry about having their products copied.
   
  Anyway, that is my experience.


----------



## bonfirehay

I thought my first pair was faulty so I exchanged them. Now the second pair is showing the same faults. 
  It's not necessarily from the base, but some frequencies make them distort.
   
  I use the volume really low, 1, 2, or 3  bars out of the 16 my macbook has. Never ever passed from the middle (8 bars)...
  It is unlikely, but it is possible that both units were faulty.
   
  Nevertheless, besides the PK3's my other option are the apple earpods..
   
  Thoughts?


----------



## kjk1281

Just wanted to give some quick first impressions on the Dasetn AP8 and modded Yuin PK2.

First off: the AP8s are excellent! Fit is a bit of an issue, but I'm really liking the warm and relaxed sound. Nice depth of soundstage!

As for the modded Yuin PK2: I don't really like these at all. The mids are just to far forward to the point of sounding bloated, and they have very little soundstage. It's still early and I'll give them some more time, but I'm really regretting buying two pairs of these. (I must have been drunk or something as I didn't realize I bid on two listings! :rolleyes: ) I've never had the chance to try the stock PK2, but I'm almost wondering if I got some bum pairs. To point out the positives: I like the cable, and the cases these came with are pretty good, at least.


----------



## Danneq

Quote: 





kjk1281 said:


> Just wanted to give some quick first impressions on the Dasetn AP8 and modded Yuin PK2.


 

 I've been waiting for someone else to chime in! 

 Agree completely on the AP8! Great and dirt cheap!
   
  However, to me the modded PK2 have got much thinner/pushed back mids compared to the regular version. The regular version is a bit warmer and seems to be more forgiving of different styles of music. The modded PK2 seems to work best with acoustic and more laid back music. Despite the mids being pushed back compared to the regular PK2, there seems to be a sort of spike somwhere in the upper (?) mids. I notice it with some harder music and after comparing it to my regular PK2, I have noticed that it's there on them as well. Just not as apparent. You are perhaps sensitive to that spike in the mids?

 The soundstage is huge, at least on my pair. It's pretty wide and tall on the regular PK2, but the modded has got great depth as well.
 Perhaps the seller hasn't had such a good quality control and our pairs sound different? Have you compared the two pairs that you bought?
 Or we are having different impressions of them?
   
  The seller recommends burn in. While I am not 100% convinced of burn in changing the sound signature of headphones, the mids on the AP8 seem to have become a bit softer after a few hours of use.

 I won a pair of modded PK3 ($8,50!) as well and next week I'll buy a pair of the MX1. Then I'll have a complete collection of his earbud models. All for around the same price as a new pair of regular Yuin PK2!


----------



## chrislangley4253

I caved in and bought a pair of the DIY PK2's 

 I will share impressions whenever they show up!


----------



## 23t23dS

I bought a pair of the DIY PK2s, and have a pair of the DIY PK3s on the way. 

Impressions of the PK2s... Not very impressive out of the box, veiled sounding and not very clear.

But they really opened up with some burn in, and now the sound is really quite something. Smooth, warm and completely non-fatiguing. The kind of sound that you can listen to for hours.


----------



## kjk1281

danneq said:


> Have you compared the two pairs that you bought?
> 
> Or we are having different impressions of them?
> 
> The seller recommends burn in. While I am not 100% convinced of burn in changing the sound signature of headphones, the mids on the AP8 seem to have become a bit softer after a few hours of use.




Both pairs sound about the same to me. It's funny because I agree 100% with your impressions on the AP8 (including the lessening of the midrange harshness), but these PK2s just sound disappointing. I'll let them burn-in a little, but I'm not expecting miracles. Both pairs will probably be up for sale eventually.

Anyway, looking forward to your impressions on the other modded buds!




23t23ds said:


> I bought a pair of the DIY PK2s, and have a pair of the DIY PK3s on the way.
> 
> Impressions of the PK2s... Not very impressive out of the box, veiled sounding and not very clear.
> 
> But they really opened up with some burn in, and now the sound is really quite something. Smooth, warm and completely non-fatiguing. The kind of sound that you can listen to for hours.




That's good to hear. I'll give the PK2s a little more time.


----------



## kjk1281

Sorry for the double post, and for derailing your thread, Tai...

I went ahead and burned in the modded PK2s overnight. They seem to be slightly more open-sounding, but I can't help but feel like I'm listening to a different earphone than others (when looking at reviews of the original PK2). I tried searching the forums, seeing people commenting about the lively sound and smooth, musical mids, and as I read I became more and more confused, thinking I have two broken pairs. That is, until I found this post which describes what I'm hearing almost exactly. I'm wondering if there is a quality control issue, and if there is, does it lie with Dasetn or Yuin?

For the heck of it, I decided to use more porous and thin foams; this seems to work much better. The foams that came with my modded PK2s are much too thick. The PK2s now sound much more transparent. I'm still not used to the midrange coloration, but I'll give these guys a little bit more time before I decide what to do with them. I will probably sell one of the two pairs though as I don't see any reason for me to keep two of them.

Going back to your question about the mids, Danneq (sorry for missing it the first time):
The peak I hear isn't quite in the upper mids, though I can't pinpoint exactly where it is. All I can say is it's a similar peak / resonance to what I heard with the Hifiman (then Head-Direct) RE2, which led me to selling them. I'm very sensitive when it comes to mids, while I have a bit more tolerance for upper mids. That's why in general I tend to gravitate toward earbuds and IEMs with slightly recessed and / or laid-back mids, the Etymotic HF3 being a notable exception; I hear no such resonance with the Etys, strangely enough. I was kind of anticipating having the issue with the PK2s, but thought the increase in soundstage would help it out a bit. Apparently it wasn't enough for my cursed ears! 
EDIT: Surprisingly, the thin foams seem to make the midrange resonance a lot less noticeable. I think these might work out after all!
.


----------



## Aitch

Dudes, how are you burning in your buds?
   
  By just playing the radio all night long or do you use a special burning in soundtrack? 
   
  How many hours would y'all recommend and how high do you keep the volume?
   
  Do you have to use a proper HiFi deck or can I just plug them in to my iPod?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## fleasbaby

Burn in needs to be performed for precisely 7 hours, 10 minutes and 36 seconds. Volume needs to be set at exactly -14.325 decibals. Sounds need to include Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music, Captain Beefheart's Trout Mask Replica, several Merzbow albums (take your pick) and Coltrane's Ascension album.

Best results are achieved at 5000 feet above sea level, using WAV files and during the full moon.


----------



## fleasbaby

For the record, when I have burned in, it was using static on my integrated reciever, at a mildly uncomfortable volume


----------



## Aitch

Static like White Noise? Mildly uncomfortable volume? Were you sat there for the whole 7:10:36 listening to static?


----------



## fleasbaby

LOL...yup...doubled as a sonic palate cleanser for my mind and ears. 

Doubtless real music would be better than static, I was just didn't want to find a station ( I hate radio ), and didn't want to leave my PC on overnight...


----------



## fleasbaby

Got a pleasant surprise today...I bid on a pair of the Dasetn, and lost yesterday. Today I got an offer to "Buy It Now" a pair for $5...snapped it up


----------



## Danneq

Quote: 





kjk1281 said:


> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well, the modded PK2 and the regular don't sound that much alike. They share the overall character, but I find the modded more enjoyable than the regular version (except for the mids which I find to be better on the regular version).

 Overall, the modded PK2 are not as musical as the regular ones and have a somewhat cold and clinical sound. But at the same time I find them to be more transparent, mainly because of the increased soundstage and improved instrument placement.

 I've just put donut foams on them. At first I used regular foams that were a bit thick, and the donut foams might reduce the midrange resonance. About the resonance, I'm just taking a swing at where it might be since I have not seen a FQ curve of the modded PK2 (and don't really know how to produce one myself). The peak might be in the lower mids. Anyway, I find it most noticable when guitar chords or voices ring out.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





fleasbaby said:


> Got a pleasant surprise today...I bid on a pair of the Dasetn, and lost yesterday. Today I got an offer to "Buy It Now" a pair for $5...snapped it up


 
   
  Which model? That's a great price no matter what!
   
   
  Hmmm... It's actually a bit sad. The state of the earbud market, that is. There are new IEM's introduced every week and with only a handful of earbud makers, here we are getting excited over a DIY guy's earbuds. I really wish that more companies would get into the earbud market. Well, at least Blox might release a new model late this year/early next winter...


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





fleasbaby said:


> Got a pleasant surprise today...I bid on a pair of the Dasetn, and lost yesterday. Today I got an offer to "Buy It Now" a pair for $5...snapped it up


 
   
  Nice! I got my pair of DIY PK2's for 15.50 and 2 shipping by winning an auction.
   
  Quote: 





danneq said:


> Which model? That's a great price no matter what!
> 
> 
> Hmmm... It's actually a bit sad. The state of the earbud market, that is. There are new IEM's introduced every week and with only a handful of earbud makers, here we are getting excited over a DIY guy's earbuds. I really wish that more companies would get into the earbud market. Well, at least Blox might release a new model late this year/early next winter...


 
   
  Couldn't agree more Danneq. Especially since I have small inner ears and am limited to yuin and yuin knockoffs. lol


----------



## fleasbaby

I got the ones that come with the AT cable (the little silver-backed ones). I noticed the usual price is $10 for Buy It Now.

Indeed, the earbud market is a touch sparse, but its rather fun to come across something like the Dasetn stuff...a small-time, little eBay seller with low prices for what seems to be a decent product...


----------



## kanonathena

Hi  ClieOS
   
  How SWD2 compare to TM7 in terms of details and soundstage?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





kanonathena said:


> Hi  ClieOS
> 
> How SWD2 compare to TM7 in terms of details and soundstage?
> 
> Thanks.


 
   
  While SWD2 is good, it isn't the top-of-the-top as TM7 on overall performance, including detail and soundstage, The only earbud that can be compared to TM7 is MX985.


----------



## kanonathena

I hope Blox can come up with a pair of earbuds for smaller ears soon like their discontinued TM5.


----------



## philip697

I went on eBay and bought some "dasetn ap8's" because they were so cheap and I've seen people in this thread talking about them. Have I done good? Can someone tell me what (if anything) I need to do to them? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  It just seems such a cheap price for earphones for them to be really good out of the box...


----------



## kjk1281

danneq said:


> Well, the modded PK2 and the regular don't sound that much alike. They share the overall character, but I find the modded more enjoyable than the regular version (except for the mids which I find to be better on the regular version).
> 
> 
> Overall, the modded PK2 are not as musical as the regular ones and have a somewhat cold and clinical sound. But at the same time I find them to be more transparent, mainly because of the increased soundstage and improved instrument placement.
> ...




I didn't mean to say that they sound exactly like the PK2. Sorry if I came across that way. I just couldn't help be see some of the similarities in his impressions and mine. kostalex's impressions of the PK2 also seem to be similar.

As I listen to them some more, even though they seem more transparent, they still exhibit that midbass and other midrange coloration that I really don't care for. The earphones have good detail, but it's hiding behind that coloration. I guess I'm allergic to the sound signature since I find my Pioneer SE-C521 and Sennheiser MX375 (as well as the Dasetn AP8) to be much more to my liking despite having a little bit less detail overall. They both excellent soundstage depth but with a sense of air and transparency that's just lacking in the modded PK2s. Maybe I just have brazen ears, or perhaps I'm just a closet Foster fanboy. 




danneq said:


> Hmmm... It's actually a bit sad. The state of the earbud market, that is. There are new IEM's introduced every week and with only a handful of earbud makers, here we are getting excited over a DIY guy's earbuds. I really wish that more companies would get into the earbud market. Well, at least Blox might release a new model late this year/early next winter...




The state of the earbud market is sad, but if it was booming, excellent DIYers like Dasetn wouldn't exist.




philip697 said:


> I went on eBay and bought some "dasetn ap8's" because they were so cheap and I've seen people in this thread talking about them. Have I done good? Can someone tell me what (if anything) I need to do to them?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yes, you have done good!  When you receive them, just plug them in, listen, and enjoy! Then later you can come back and post your impressions!


----------



## Danneq

Quote: 





philip697 said:


> I went on eBay and bought some "dasetn ap8's" because they were so cheap and I've seen people in this thread talking about them. Have I done good? Can someone tell me what (if anything) I need to do to them?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I second kjk1281: jsut enjoy them out of the box. You might notice some change after a few hours of use. I have never done anything special with my earbuds or headphones to burn them in. I just use them. You could experiment with different foams to see what you prefer. I use donut shaped foams and that sounds good to me.
   
  Quote: 





kjk1281 said:


> I didn't mean to say that they sound exactly like the PK2. Sorry if I came across that way. I just couldn't help be see some of the similarities in his impressions and mine. kostalex's impressions of the PK2 also seem to be similar.
> 
> As I listen to them some more, even though they seem more transparent, they still exhibit that midbass and other midrange coloration that I really don't care for. The earphones have good detail, but it's hiding behind that coloration. I guess I'm allergic to the sound signature since I find my Pioneer SE-C521 and Sennheiser MX375 (as well as the Dasetn AP8) to be much more to my liking despite having a little bit less detail overall. They both excellent soundstage depth but with a sense of air and transparency that's just lacking in the modded PK2s. Maybe I just have brazen ears, or perhaps I'm just a closet Foster fanboy.
> 
> ...


 
   
  What sort of foams do you use? I've put on donut foams and that seems to soften the sound a bit. I both like these and the AP8 a lot. Tehy are much better than some regular earbud maker's current models (I won't mention any names...)
 I look forward to trying out the modded PK3 and the Dasetn MX1!


----------



## fleasbaby

I am waiting on my Dasetn ap8...I bought them on the 23rd of this month, so I am assuming still a way to go before they reach California...


----------



## ejheflin

How is the size of the Dasetns? Would they be good for smaller ears?


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





ejheflin said:


> How is the size of the Dasetns? Would they be good for smaller ears?


 
  only the modded pk2/pk3 would be good for smaller ears


----------



## Wokei

danneq said:


> I've been waiting for someone else to chime in!
> 
> 
> Agree completely on the AP8! Great and dirt cheap!
> ...




Just wanna say i owned three unit of DIY PK2 from Daestn and I got them in early April and from the pictures that you have posted and they are difference from those I owned ...they are no Y cable separator and 3.5mm jack look like high end knockoff with the brand name Yongsheng . I also received the PK2 that you have last week and totally agree with with your review of the model you have . The only difference with the one I have is that the soundstage is more middle instead of back and the details and separation is better .


----------



## Wokei

I also own three unit of AP8 ...initially bought one but was so impressed with its warm and depth of soundstage and totally agree with the harsh mid but with burn in ...gets better. For the price I think it represent value for money ...better than buying off the shelf earbud in the mall.

As for the Modded PK3 which I also owned ...it was a disappointment because having modded PK2 old version ( different 3.5mm jack) , new version of PK2 ( pic posted by Danneq) and AP8 and the expectations garnered from these two has set the bar quite high. 

The PK3 just don't have the bass impact and separation n details were a bit poor compared to PK2 and AP8. Have been on burn in for about 50 hrs but still getting the same impression ...the sound is quite thin on all aspects and sound like you are at the back of the hall and everything sounds like the volume is on the low eventhough actual volume is at high. The higher the volume the sound feels even further back. I hope it makes sense ..that is how i feel the sound is ... 

My only complaint with AP8 is fitting issue but I do like Dasetn old and new PK2.


----------



## kjk1281

danneq said:


> What sort of foams do you use? I've put on donut foams and that seems to soften the sound a bit. I both like these and the AP8 a lot. Tehy are much better than some regular earbud maker's current models (I won't mention any names...)
> 
> I look forward to trying out the modded PK3 and the Dasetn MX1!




I've used all sorts of foams: thin foams, thicker foams, Sennheiser foams (can't recall the part number...), Sennheiser ear sleeves, and a combination of foams and ear sleeves. At your suggestion, I've tried some donut foams of the "home-made" variety and they seem to sound best with them. This seems to bring forward a bit more transparency but the mids are still a bit colored and the grainy midbass is still present. At this point they remind me a bit of the original PX100s: a very good headphone with nice amounts of detail but ultimately comes short of excellence due to some graininess and a bit too much midbass. Maybe my expectations were too high, and/or perhaps I just got a dud (or two)...

The AP8s are just excellent! I'll probably grab another pair or two one of these days.



wokei said:


> Just wanna say i owned three unit of DIY PK2 from Daestn and I got them in early April and from the pictures that you have posted and they are difference from those I owned ...they are no Y cable separator and 3.5mm jack look like high end knockoff with the brand name Yongsheng . I also received the PK2 that you have last week and totally agree with with your review of the model you have . The only difference with the one I have is that the soundstage is more middle instead of back and the details and separation is better .




Thanks for the explanation on the differences between old and new. Interesting that there seems to be the possibility of some slight differences between individual units. My pairs have very little in the way of soundstage.


----------



## Hghuy

danneq said:


> Edit: the only concerns I have is about how he can be consistent in the earbuds he makes. If it's all DIY, how can he guaranteee that all earbuds from the same series sound similar?



I do not think that all earbuds from the same series sound similar since my AP8's left channel is louder than the right!


----------



## fleasbaby

Quote: 





hghuy said:


> I do not think that all earbuds from the same series sound similar since my AP8's left channel is louder than the right!


 
   
  Oh dear...I hope my pair aren't like that...LOL


----------



## Wokei

hghuy said:


> I do not think that all earbuds from the same series sound similar since my AP8's left channel is louder than the right!




My three unit of AP8 sound quite similar but one unit has better bass impact and brighter treble comapred to the the other two. Also it could be that particular unit has the longest burn in period and often used when comparing the three unit of AP8.


----------



## Hghuy

May i ask you guys to try this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-Philips-SHE3800-In-Ear-Earbud-Headphones-Earphones-/261218242864?pt=US_Headphones&hash=item3cd1d2113
Best p/p earbud i ever have!i have a collection of earbud but this one have much bass while still good as other aspects! also,the fit is better than yuin series


----------



## chrislangley4253

Soooo, I'm supposed to be taking a break from the computer. But, my DIY PK2 came in!
   
  The sound definitely depends on the foams. Without any foams they sounded very odd indeed, with the stock foams it was better.. but I found the highs slightly muffled. Moved to some thinner foams from a pair of sansa stock buds and cut them into donut foams. These are the clear winners. I think differences in the foams could be attributed to some of the differences in impressions on these.

 With the donut foams I am very impressed with the sound. They don't beat my portapros on sound, but they come closer than I believed they would. They certainly are more portable than the portapros!

 These will be my new go-to portable set, replacing my portapros. I think I might try to order 4 more sets, 2 to give as gifts and 2 to keep as spares 
   
  TL;DR - If you have small ears and need a truly portable set of headphones.. This is definitely the best budget option, if not the best option period. Buy a set.


----------



## fleasbaby

...AP8 arrived today! Have them plugged into my integrated amp at the moment getting a little burning in...Will probably give them a listen once my family hits the hay.


----------



## fleasbaby

So far rather nice...delightful mids, okay highs, not much in the way of bass (but few and far between are the buds that have that).

I did a brief side-by-side with my PK3 and actually like the AP8 more. My Sportapros beat both. I think the AP8 will replace my PK3 as my "toss-in-a-bag" rig.


----------



## Danneq

If someone is curious about vintage Sony earbuds, there's an auction on German Ebay right now for a pair of MDR-E484, the top model between ca 1988-1995. I've got a pair and they are really great earbuds.
  
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Sony-MDR-E484-Kopfhorer-schwarz-/231054485802?pt=Kopfh%C3%B6rer&hash=item35cbeba92a#ht_319wt_1399


----------



## chrislangley4253

danneq said:


> If someone is curious about vintage Sony earbuds, there's an auction on German Ebay right now for a pair of MDR-E484, the top model between ca 1988-1995. I've got a pair and they are really great earbuds.
> 
> http://www.ebay.de/itm/Sony-MDR-E484-Kopfhorer-schwarz-/231054485802?pt=Kopfh%C3%B6rer&hash=item35cbeba92a#ht_319wt_1399


 
  
 Very interesting, if I wasn't actively reducing my number of possessions in this world, I would pick them up. lol

 If anyone does, please post impressions, they look neat.
  
 How would these fit with someone that can wear Yuin but not Blox?


----------



## Danneq

chrislangley4253 said:


> Very interesting, if I wasn't actively reducing my number of possessions in this world, I would pick them up. lol
> 
> If anyone does, please post impressions, they look neat.
> 
> How would these fit with someone that can wear Yuin but not Blox?


 
  
 The circumference is bigger than Blox earbud but the earpieces are a bit flatter and don't stick out from your ears as much, so I find it easier to keep them in my ears. I think the E484 have 16mm drivers which is pretty big for earbuds. They have a pretty forward sound with great bass for earbuds. Still they present a pretty good soundstage.

 By the way, I hope that I will start reducing my number of possessions soon. Got too many dang earbuds!


----------



## bonfirehay

chrislangley4253 said:


> TL;DR - If you have small ears and need a truly portable set of headphones.. This is definitely the best budget option, if not the best option period. Buy a set.


 
  
 So do you think these modded pk2 are better than original pk3? I would also like to know the opinion of the OP.
  
 Thank you


----------



## Hghuy

It is a good earbud for its price but there is no way it can compare with the original yuin pk1.one more thing, i talked to datsen before and he said he could make me a yuin pk1 modded for $70 but i decided to buy the original one! it is the best earbud i have so far including yuin ok1,mx980,blox anv3 and mdr-e888! Danneq give pk1 a try and you won't regret it! The amp actually pump them up but without the amp it still sound great!


----------



## bonfirehay

hghuy said:


> It is a good earbud for its price but there is no way it can compare with the original yuin pk1.one more thing, i talked to datsen before and he said he could make me a yuin pk1 modded for $70 but i decided to buy the original one!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I meant modded pk2 vs original pk3


----------



## fredrikhasth

dump your possesions on me! i am currently looking for a little of this and that! (pk1) (pk2) (blox tm7) etc.
  
 (paying good fair price ofcourse)


----------



## Hghuy

If you want to reduce the collection please contact me i need hp-d9 or mdr-e484,e464


----------



## bonfirehay

chrislangley4253 said:


> Soooo, I'm supposed to be taking a break from the computer. But, my DIY PK2 came in!
> 
> The sound definitely depends on the foams. Without any foams they sounded very odd indeed, with the stock foams it was better.. but I found the highs slightly muffled. Moved to some thinner foams from a pair of sansa stock buds and cut them into donut foams. These are the clear winners. I think differences in the foams could be attributed to some of the differences in impressions on these.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I just ordered a pair of DIY PK2 since I couldn't find I couldn't find cheap PK3 in europe.
 Cheap as they get, 7$ shipping included: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-HIFI-YUIN-PK2-DIY-boutique-sound-quality-of-the-headphones-powerful-bass-wood-headset/854376207.html
  
 Offtopic: Do portapros/sportapros have better sound than the KSC75?


----------



## Aitch

Wow! Are those genuine? Maybe this is where the ebay guy has been getting them?


----------



## kanonathena

Hi ClieOS
  
 I just got MX985 and SWD2. MX985 has a very dense sound which reminds me of Re272. Unfortunately I don't have Re272 anymore from memory Re272 has fuller sound and perhaps more information. What's your take on this?
  
 SWD2 is very smooth and quite mid-centric, effortless detail. I found it very enjoyable and non-fatiguing at first but over time the sound is a bit too sweet for me. MX985 is realistic and textured, SWD2 is about smoothness and sweetness. Even though the overall sound is very well balanced, SWD2 lacks presence in the lower end so missing quite some instrument there.
  
 I will keep burning these in see how they changes.


----------



## ClieOS

kanonathena said:


> I just got MX985 and SWD2. MX985 has a very dense sound which reminds me of Re272. Unfortunately I don't have Re272 anymore from memory Re272 has fuller sound and perhaps more information. What's your take on this?


 
  
 Yes,you are right. MX985 does share a good portion of its sound signature with RE272. However, MX985 does has a bigger soundstage while RE272 has a bit more upper detail, which are not surprisingly given one is earbuds while the other is IEM,


----------



## kanonathena

I forgot to mention that the fit of MX985 isn't as bad as I thought. They are smaller than on the photos. I have trouble with M2C and OK2 but this fits quite well, I have yet to see if I can wear these for longer period of time.


----------



## Aitch

bonfirehay said:


> I just ordered a pair of DIY PK2 since I couldn't find I couldn't find cheap PK3 in europe.
> Cheap as they get, 7$ shipping included: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-HIFI-YUIN-PK2-DIY-boutique-sound-quality-of-the-headphones-powerful-bass-wood-headset/854376207.html
> 
> Offtopic: Do portapros/sportapros have better sound than the KSC75?


 
  
 Wow! Are those genuine? Maybe this is where the ebay guy has been getting them?


----------



## Danneq

My modded PK2 look nothing like that. But the modded PK3 that I got look about the same...


----------



## Aitch

Does that mean we have been scammed?


----------



## Aitch

danneq said:


> My modded PK2 look nothing like that. But the modded PK3 that I got look about the same...


 
  
 Does that mean we have been scammed?


----------



## Danneq

aitch said:


> Does that mean we have been scammed?


 
  
  
 No, I think that the cheap PK2 from Aliexpress are different from the PK3 from the Ebay seller.
  
 There are other mods of PK2 on Aliexpress:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ancient-line-diy-earphones-yuin-pk2-hifi/776501012.html
 (I think this is the same seller as on Ebay)

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Diy-ancient-earphones-yuin-pk2-pakwai-silverstrand-rainmaker/1121170771.html
  
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Diy-yuin-pk2-earphones-heatshrinked-high-pitch-mould/713737107.html
 (this one looks much like the cheap one linked to in an earlier post. Also it looks like my pair of modded PK3)
  
  
 Apparently there are many modders in China and they get their parts from pretty much the same place...


----------



## bonfirehay

If the shells and the drivers are original, I will be happy.


----------



## fredrikhasth

is the pk3 more bassy then pk2?
  
 And anyone know a good place to buy pk1 and pk2 from ? any happy buyers our there?


----------



## chrislangley4253

bonfirehay said:


> I just ordered a pair of DIY PK2 since I couldn't find I couldn't find cheap PK3 in europe.
> Cheap as they get, 7$ shipping included: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-HIFI-YUIN-PK2-DIY-boutique-sound-quality-of-the-headphones-powerful-bass-wood-headset/854376207.html
> 
> Offtopic: Do portapros/sportapros have better sound than the KSC75?


 
 I prefer portapros. I find the KSc75 too bright, but it's totally up to personal preference.


----------



## userrname

I bought the GR07 MK2 (first IEM ever), I tried all the tips and not a single one made me feel comfortable wearing it. The sound with the right tip for me is great, but in terms of  comfortability is a pain in the ass. I don't get how anyone can wear these for more than 30 minutes without discomfort. I've been recomended the Comply Comfort tips but im scared I will buy them for nothing and I have the possibility to return the GR07 and get the money back so... I think I will not risk it. I just want to buy an earbud (or whatever you call this, an earphone that doesn't need you to stick the tip INSIDE your ear canal), it has to sit comfortably outside the ear and barely be noticeable so I can wear them for a long time. It also has to have the best isolation and sound quality possible WITHOUT compromising comfortability.
 It would be great if they are good enough to produce with them besides casual usage. I have headphones as my main weapon for production but the headband gives me a headache after a while, so I want to take rests with a super comfortable non-headband device at night (i cant use speakers at night)
 Thanks


----------



## Hghuy

What type of music you are listen to?


----------



## ClieOS

userrname said:


> I bought the GR07 MK2 (first IEM ever), I tried all the tips and not a single one made me feel comfortable wearing it. The sound with the right tip for me is great, but in terms of  comfortability is a pain in the ass. I don't get how anyone can wear these for more than 30 minutes without discomfort. I've been recomended the Comply Comfort tips but im scared I will buy them for nothing and I have the possibility to return the GR07 and get the money back so... I think I will not risk it. I just want to buy an earbud (or whatever you call this, an earphone that doesn't need you to stick the tip INSIDE your ear canal), it has to sit comfortably outside the ear and barely be noticeable so I can wear them for a long time. It also has to have the best isolation and sound quality possible WITHOUT compromising comfortability.
> It would be great if they are good enough to produce with them besides casual usage. I have headphones as my main weapon for production but the headband gives me a headache after a while, so I want to take rests with a super comfortable non-headband device at night (i cant use speakers at night)
> Thanks


 
  
 IEM just needs some getting used to. Most people will eventually find them comfortable enough in the long run. Of course, there will be some that will never get used to it. The point is, if you never _want to_ get used to it, you'll never do. But it is a decision you have to make.
  
 There is really no such thing as an earbuds with isolation. It would be like double-decker bus with sport car handling. You just can't have them all.


----------



## bonfirehay

userrname said:


> I bought the GR07 MK2 (first IEM ever), I tried all the tips and not a single one made me feel comfortable wearing it. The sound with the right tip for me is great, but in terms of  comfortability is a pain in the ass. I don't get how anyone can wear these for more than 30 minutes without discomfort. I've been recomended the Comply Comfort tips but im scared I will buy them for nothing and I have the possibility to return the GR07 and get the money back so... I think I will not risk it. I just want to buy an earbud (or whatever you call this, an earphone that doesn't need you to stick the tip INSIDE your ear canal), it has to sit comfortably outside the ear and barely be noticeable so I can wear them for a long time. It also has to have the best isolation and sound quality possible WITHOUT compromising comfortability.
> It would be great if they are good enough to produce with them besides casual usage. I have headphones as my main weapon for production but the headband gives me a headache after a while, so I want to take rests with a super comfortable non-headband device at night (i cant use speakers at night)
> Thanks


 
  
 In terms of comfort I don't think anything beats the Yuin PK line, but it depends on the size of your ear entrance. If you have big ear entrance you might find the bigger earbuds as comfortable, in which case, judging by the appreciation of everyone I know which tried them, the best buy right now might be the Sennheiser MX 985. If you have ears like mine, you will prefer the Yuin PK3 (cheaper and don't need amp), or the Yuin PK1 (better but as expensive as MX 985 and people say it needs a good amp), but it might be worth it if you plan to produce music with them. Another thing I dislike on the Sennheiser are the controls on the cable which add some weight and might get trapped in clothes, but this is a personal annoyance as it seems.
  
 NOTE: Take my advise with a grain of salt because it is mostly based on what I read here and in my experience with the following headphones: Yuin PK3 (2 pairs), Sennheiser MX560 (2 pairs), Sennheiser CX300, Audio Technica ATH M-50 and AKG K550.


----------



## userrname

Nice. What about the Blox ones? everyone say they sound great. What about comfortable factor??


----------



## bonfirehay

userrname said:


> Nice. What about the Blox ones? everyone say they sound great. What about comfortable factor??


 
 I would like to buy some Blox M2C myself but they are out of stock since a very long time. It is uncertain when or if they will be available again.
 The comfort should be the same as generic sennheiser earbuds since the shell is the same. Which means they will be bigger then Yuin PK's, however they don't have volume control on the cable like the MX 985, which in my opinion is a good thing.
  
*To anyone who has tried both*:
 Is the shell of the Blox M2C smaller than the one of the MX 985?


----------



## F900EX

Shell is smaller on the M2C vs the MX 985, not by much but it is smaller.


----------



## LordZero

Hi, I'm looking for good earbuds to use without a good amp(behringer uca202) and most of the times at low volumes(since I will be using this at work and some people may call me, that is why I'm not going with iems), but I have been searching cheap and good sounding earbuds and now it seems impossible to find them(pk3 are hard to find), I'm looking into Apple Earpods or the Soundmagic EP10 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/SoundMAGIC-Dynamic-Stereo-Earbud-Earphones/dp/B00EVSXU0O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381704419&sr=8-1&keywords=soundmagic+ep10), it's there more better options on the market, that are not that hard to find? I normally like a warm sound, with a good bass.

 Best Regards


----------



## kjk1281

Hi LordZero,

I would advise against the EP10. I'm probably the only person here on Head-Fi to have them, but they just don't sound all that great to my ears. SoundMagic was trying to go for a bright and detailed sound, but instead the EP10 just sounds etched and harsh, with little actual detail, and it's the complete opposite of the sound signature you're looking for. 

I would take a look at the Sennheiser MX375 instead for 5 quid more. They have the warmer, bassier sound you seem to want.


----------



## LordZero

kjk1281, thank you very much, I will try to find them here or order from amazon.co.uk. Have your heard them? They sound muddy? I like bass, but I don't like when it get all over my music =P


----------



## kjk1281

LordZero,

They're definitely not muddy. I wouldn't recommend them if that were the case.


----------



## LordZero

kjk1281 said:


> LordZero,
> 
> They're definitely not muddy. I wouldn't recommend them if that were the case.


 
 Thank you! That is what I tough, sorry for asking =P I found them here, just have one last question before i pull the trigger, in comparation with Apple Earpods, can you give your opinion?


----------



## kjk1281

Sure! The EarPods are the bassier of the two, with more quantity and presence, and is boomy when compared to the Senns. The EarPod's bass presentation isn't what I would call muddy, but the (upper) bass does seem to thicken and veil the mids a bit. The MX375's bass in contrast doesn't bleed, and sounds clearer and more open in the midrange as a result. The Senns have more articulate and extended treble. Presentation-wise, the EarPods are fuller-sounding, with a soundstage that provides good depth but lacks in width. The MX375 has a crisper, more open sound, and while its soundstage isn't as deep, it does sound more spacious and natural. Some people may perceive this as more laid-back and less forward, however.

Of course, what I'm hearing is dependent on the fit of the earbuds, so you may hear the two somewhat differently. I seem to hear more bass out of the EarPods than most, so take that into consideration as well!


----------



## LordZero

kjk1281 said:


> Sure! The EarPods are the bassier of the two, with more quantity and presence, and is boomy when compared to the Senns. The EarPod's bass presentation isn't what I would call muddy, but the (upper) bass does seem to thicken and veil the mids a bit. The MX375's bass in contrast doesn't bleed, and sounds clearer and more open in the midrange as a result. The Senns have more articulate and extended treble. Presentation-wise, the EarPods are fuller-sounding, with a soundstage that provides good depth but lacks in width. The MX375 has a crisper, more open sound, and while its soundstage isn't as deep, it does sound more spacious and natural. Some people may perceive this as more laid-back and less forward, however.
> 
> Of course, what I'm hearing is dependent on the fit of the earbuds, so you may hear the two somewhat differently. I seem to hear more bass out of the EarPods than most, so take that into consideration as well!


 
 Oh thanks you very much for the detailed comparation, now my head is spinning, it's kinda hard to decide on both, the Earpods is twice the price of the MX375, but they have the inline remote control(not that i'm using that a lot with my ipod, but ok), hard decisions to make... Thanks for your great help kjk1281*!*


----------



## blazer78

The earpods that came with my 5S, can compete with the MX985. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But they are a bit finnicky in terms of the angle the grill faces (i.e. rotation in the ear). Changing the angle has noticeable effects on the sound.


----------



## userrname

If im in france and I want to buy the PK3 what is the best shop? and how do I make sure im buying the latest batch and not the old one with the L cable??


----------



## Waqar

Anybody had any user experience with Dasetn Audio mx1?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-Dasetn-Audio-mx1-Diy-Project-clear-voice-Professional-hifi-Earphone-/380666184867?pt=US_Headphones&hash=item58a17904a3


----------



## bonfirehay

lordzero said:


> Hi, I'm looking for good earbuds to use without a good amp(behringer uca202) and most of the times at low volumes(since I will be using this at work and some people may call me, that is why I'm not going with iems), but I have been searching cheap and good sounding earbuds and now it seems impossible to find them(pk3 are hard to find), I'm looking into Apple Earpods or the Soundmagic EP10 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/SoundMAGIC-Dynamic-Stereo-Earbud-Earphones/dp/B00EVSXU0O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381704419&sr=8-1&keywords=soundmagic+ep10), it's there more better options on the market, that are not that hard to find? I normally like a warm sound, with a good bass.
> 
> Best Regards


 
  
 If you don't care for the volume control I have 2 pairs of Sennheiser MX 760 pretty much new. I can sell one for 20€, shipping from Portugal, Europe.
 They are in the Category 1 as described by the OP.
  
 They have about the same amount of bass as the EarPods but it is a little bit more tight, less loose, more punchy. They also sound a little bit less artificial, and more energetic.
  


clieos said:


> *Category 1: THE GREAT*
> 
> 
> *Sennheiser MX985* - Share the top spot with TM7. Warm and rich, not as wide a soundstage as TM7, but more immersive. Excellent all-arounder.
> ...


----------



## bonfirehay

The 7$ DIY Yuin PK2 (cough cough) have arrived from China 40 days after the order.
 They are so stylish. The cable is red from skull candy and the shells look like the ones from Yuin. 
 Except they say Sony in them 
  
 Nevertheless who knows what is inside them? Who cares what they say, if they sound good?
 If the shape of the shell is the same, and the driver is actually from some Yuin PK2, they should sound the same right?
 We already know that it is common for different brands to use the same shell: M2C <=> Sennheiser. Yuin probably does the same with Sony.
  
 Now, the sound..
 I never heard original PK2, so I can't possibly say if they sound the same. The only thing I can say, is they don't sound that good. 
 They have a lot of treble emphasis, and are very detailed, and very forward, but almost no bass.
 I remember the PK3 were no bass monsters, but they were much more balanced. The sound was natural.
 I would say these fake PK2 also share some of this natural characteristics but the treble/ hi mids are so pronounced. They are not sibilant, they are just have a great emphasis one mid-high frequencies. And they lack bass.
  
 It's a shame with such stylish red cable. Maybe I will attempts a reacable of one of my Sennheiser MX 760 
  
 PS: I'm also interested on the best place to buy original PK3 in Europe.


----------



## musicday

Name the person who sold you the pk2 so can other avoid buying fakes.
I have order it a PK1 from a serious seller from eBay.


----------



## bonfirehay

musicday said:


> Name the person who sold you the pk2 so can other avoid buying fakes.
> I have order it a PK1 from a serious seller from eBay.


 
  
 This is where I bought them from: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-HIFI-YUIN-PK2-DIY-boutique-sound-quality-of-the-headphones-powerful-bass-wood-headset/854376207.html
 This was already expected though. He warns the customers he is out of normal shells and is shipping shells without the Yuin symbol. He doesn't mention they say Sony though. Quoting from the seller's page:
  

  
 Anyway, even if they had the Yuin symbol, they would still be built with parts from different headphones. It would be impossible to know if the drivers are actually Yuin or not, in one case or another. And in the end it really doesn't matter. What matters is the sound, which in this case I don't like, but afaik I might not either like the sound of the original PK2.
  
 Also, who knows how many different drivers has Yuin been shipping in different batches of the same model? It is known that heaphones change depending on the batch even in reputable companies. Almost no one buys multiple pairs of Yuin from different batches to compare, and if they did I bet they would find differences. The cable and connector of PK3 has been changing overtime. I didn't like my 2nd PK3 as much I did like my 1st PK3. If you buy some PK3 right now there are chances you won't be getting the same sound the OP got when he reviewed the earbuds.
  
 I want some Blox M2C/ANV3


----------



## Hghuy

bonfirehay said:


> This is where I bought them from: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-HIFI-YUIN-PK2-DIY-boutique-sound-quality-of-the-headphones-powerful-bass-wood-headset/854376207.html
> This was already expected though. He warns the customers he is out of normal shells and is shipping shells without the Yuin symbol. He doesn't mention they say Sony though. Quoting from the seller's page:
> 
> 
> ...



The question is how much you pay for it?is it worth your money?why do you jump to the conclusion when you did not try the original one?the pk2 is described as bass light!


----------



## bonfirehay

I paid 7$ which is worth the chance of trying them out.
 Would I buy another pair? Probably not.
 Which conclusion are you talking about?
 I didn't say they didn't sound like PK2, I said I didn't like the sound.
 Maybe PK2 are just ****ty headphones, they are not very popular... maybe that is for a reason.
  
 PS: I think I would pay 7$ just for this nice looking cable.


----------



## Danneq

musicday said:


> Name the person who sold you the pk2 so can other avoid buying fakes.
> I have order it a PK1 from a serious seller from eBay.


 
  
  aristidesfl knew that he did not buy real PK2. It was a pair of DIY earbuds where the drivers was supposed to be PK2 drivers. I have not yet seen "real" fakes of Yuin earbuds. Lately, there have been different DIY earbuds on E-bay for example and Yuin earbuds seem to be popular to make DIY (Do It Yourself) versions of.
 I like the DIY PK2 that I bought, although they work best for calmer music than for rock, but I'm not too crazy about the DIY PK3 that I bought.
  
  
 Quote:


bonfirehay said:


> I paid 7$ which is worth the chance of trying them out.
> Would I buy another pair? Probably not.
> Which conclusion are you talking about?
> I didn't say they didn't sound like PK2, I said I didn't like the sound.
> ...


 
  
 I prefer PK2 over PK3 since they have a more neutral sound. There are however much better earbuds out there...


----------



## goldenSHK

Are you guys sure that the extremely cheap Yuin DIY kits on Alibaba aren't really PK3 drivers? I mean, it would make a lot more sense especially about the price. In addition, the listed impedance for the drivers on Alibaba is 32 ohms which is the listed specs for the PK3 on Yuin's website and Amazon. It'd make more sense if they took the drivers out of a ~$30 headphone and sold it without labor just as parts for ~$7 than took the ~$50 PK2 and did that. The frequency response and ohms of the alibaba drivers and the PK3 are identical.


----------



## bonfirehay

danneq said:


> I prefer PK2 over PK3 since they have a more neutral sound. There are however much better earbuds out there...


 
  
 Which ones have more bass? PK2 or PK3?
  


goldenshk said:


> Are you guys sure that the extremely cheap Yuin DIY kits on Alibaba aren't really PK3 drivers? I mean, it would make a lot more sense especially about the price. In addition, the listed impedance for the drivers on Alibaba is 32 ohms which is the listed specs for the PK3 on Yuin's website and Amazon. It'd make more sense if they took the drivers out of a ~$30 headphone and sold it without labor just as parts for ~$7 than took the ~$50 PK2 and did that. The frequency response and ohms of the alibaba drivers and the PK3 are identical.


 
  
 I could bet the drivers on the PK3, PK2 and PK1 cost about the same to produce. The components from the factory are extremely cheap.


----------



## goldenSHK

bonfirehay said:


> I could bet the drivers on the PK3, PK2 and PK1 cost about the same to produce. The components from the factory are extremely cheap.


 
 That could be true, but that still doesn't mean that the drivers on Alibaba that have the same specs as the PK3 drivers are really PK2 drivers. It would make more sense that Alibaba sellers are just falsely advertising and hoping no one catches the specs of their products. But then again, they could have falsely advertised the specs too if they wanted to so I'm not sure why they left the PK3 specs on their listing and branded them PK2 drivers instead of just going full out and falsely advertising both the specs and the name.


----------



## Danneq

bonfirehay said:


> Which ones have more bass? PK2 or PK3?


 
  
  
 None of them are bass monsters. I haven't compared them for a loooooong time, but as I remember, PK3 has got more quantity and PK2 has got more quality. None of them have real bass slam or bass depth. PK3 does feel a bit more deep but with less detail/texture. PK2 has got more detail/texture. I usually prefer more detail/texture and then I can EQ bass on my MP3 player to compensate for any lack of bass...


----------



## goldenSHK

danneq said:


> None of them are bass monsters. I haven't compared them for a loooooong time, but as I remember, PK3 has got more quantity and PK2 has got more quality. None of them have real bass slam or bass depth. PK3 does feel a bit more deep but with less detail/texture. PK2 has got more detail/texture. I usually prefer more detail/texture and then I can EQ bass on my MP3 player to compensate for any lack of bass...


 
 How would you say the bass compares with to bass quality type headphones such as the Ultrasone Pro 900 and Fostex TH600/900? I currently use the Pro 900 for most of my portable listening.


----------



## Danneq

goldenshk said:


> How would you say the bass compares with to bass quality type headphones such as the Ultrasone Pro 900 and Fostex TH600/900? I currently use the Pro 900 for most of my portable listening.


 
  
 I've never heard those headphones and can only compare to ATH ES10 or Sennheiser HD25, and there's no competition there. The earbuds don't stand a chance when it comes to bass. However, those headphones are probably more bass heavy than the ones you use. Still, the quality is better on both the ES10 and HD25. I suppose that IEM's also are better when it comes to bass. The great thing about earbuds is that you can get a really open sound with them.


----------



## bonfirehay

danneq said:


> None of them are bass monsters. I haven't compared them for a loooooong time, but as I remember, PK3 has got more quantity and PK2 has got more quality. None of them have real bass slam or bass depth. PK3 does feel a bit more deep but with less detail/texture. PK2 has got more detail/texture. I usually prefer more detail/texture and then I can EQ bass on my MP3 player to compensate for any lack of bass...


 
  
 It seems like you are trying to justify the difference in price of those headphones.


----------



## Danneq

bonfirehay said:


> It seems like you are trying to justify the difference in price of those headphones.


 
  
 Does it? Well, I didn't mean for it to sound like that. I bought my pair of PK3 for $35 and my pair of PK2 for $55, so there wasn't that much of a difference.
  
 I bought a pair of modded/DIY PK2 for around $20 from an Ebay seller and I think that sounds better than both the original PK2 and the PK3. The regular PK2 doesn't have any depth in the soundstage and the modded version improves on that. However, for some reason the modded PK2 works best with softer music than with rock. The soundstage makes acoustic and classical music sound very nice but with rock there's something that sounds a bit off.
 The DIY earbud model Dasetn AP8 that I bought for around $7 sound better than all the other 3.


----------



## Ymer

Which would you dub the best for classical music? With enough resolution, soundstage and bass? Thanks!


----------



## Hghuy

Definitely mx980!


----------



## fredrikhasth

hghuy said:


> Definitely mx980!


 
 bought and returned the mx 985 last month! 
 definitely not my kind of liking.
  
 I was waiting for the Bass to kick in all the time, and the Treble was mouch higher then the Lows and Mids aswell so i had to crank up the volume alot to hear those frequencies proper but then the treble became to intrusive to my ears.
  
 So maybe it was something with my unit or i am not used to  that kind of sound signature.
  
 the fit was good for me and the clarity and quality in the sound was very good otherwise,


----------



## Hghuy

fredrikhasth said:


> bought and returned the mx 985 last month!
> definitely not my kind of liking.
> 
> I was waiting for the Bass to kick in all the time, and the Treble was mouch higher then the Lows and Mids aswell so i had to crank up the volume alot to hear those frequencies proper but then the treble became to intrusive to my ears.
> ...



I think the mx980 is the best for classical music!i have not tried the Mx985 but it should not be too much differences from the mx980.i listened to many earbuds;the mx980 is one of the most boomier that you can find in term of earbud.however,the mx980's mid is really thin!


----------



## bonfirehay

fredrikhasth said:


> bought and returned the mx 985 last month!
> definitely not my kind of liking.
> 
> I was waiting for the Bass to kick in all the time, and the Treble was mouch higher then the Lows and Mids aswell so i had to crank up the volume alot to hear those frequencies proper but then the treble became to intrusive to my ears.
> ...


 
  
 We all have different ears and just the shape of the ear channel will make the sound different for everyone.


----------



## imported_Alex_T

I am currently using PK1. It performs very well and I love its sound signature. But, wished it could be more revealing (I find the treble could be better).
 Which one do you think, MX980/985 or TM7 (impossible to find brand new at the moment), a better upgrade?


----------



## Sparky191

How does the  mx 980/985 compare with the lower end MX760 which I have?


----------



## fredrikhasth

hghuy said:


> I think the mx980 is the best for classical music!i have not tried the Mx985 but it should not be too much differences from the mx980.i listened to many earbuds;the mx980 is one of the most boomier that you can find in term of earbud.however,the mx980's mid is really thin!


 
   yes this is probably true ! since i listen to mainly electronic music that is not always the best recorded this was a bit of a bad choice from  my side. but hey you learn as you go!  
  
 I am thinking of ordering the *Audio Technica CM707 maybe they will be better for me who knows. *
*they are described as warm and thick. this sounds like they could be good with house and trance music.*
  
  
  


bonfirehay said:


> We all have different ears and just the shape of the ear channel will make the sound different for everyone.


 
 Ok yeah im very new to high end earbuds and audio in general so my taste is still a bit coloured i guess in comparison to other people on here that have very refined ears and tatse.
  
 I was a bit naive at first coming to this forum thinking the highest rated headphones will be the best for me and everyone  haha.


----------



## chompy

Hi,
  
 Sorry for my English…
 Currently I'm owning a pair of Yuin PK3 I’m quite happy with them paired with my Sansa Clip Zip, but I miss some bass (even with the equalizer set in V shape) and I would like to know which earbuds would you recommend me.
  
 These tips should help your recommendations:
 -          I only listen dance music (mainly trance).
 -          I love the sound of the Beyerdynamic DT 770 (80 ohm) I use at home. Great bass and nice highs.
 -          I don’t like the sound of Sennheiser MX471 I also have. I found the bass similar to PK3, but MX471 has more mids and less highs which I don’t like (I’ll describe it as nasal sound)
  
 If it’s possible the earbuds should costs less than 50€ and be available to buy from Europe (Amazon, eBay…)
  
 Thanks


----------



## BB 808

chompy said:


> Hi,
> 
> Sorry for my English…
> Currently I'm owning a pair of Yuin PK3 I’m quite happy with them paired with my Sansa Clip Zip, but I miss some bass (even with the equalizer set in V shape) and I would like to know which earbuds would you recommend me.
> ...




The PAA-1 Pro has awesome BASS for earbuds and it's only $49 USD.


----------



## chompy

bb 808 said:


> The PAA-1 Pro has awesome BASS for earbuds and it's only $49 USD.


 
  
 Thanks, I've read that PAA-1 Pro have the treble rolled off and that's what I don't like from my MX471, has anybody compared its treble with PK3?
  
 I have small ears and while PK3 fit perfectly, MX471 aren't so confortable... What's the size of PAA-1 Pro?
  
 Should I be aware of fake PAA-1 Pro? I've found in eBay 3 dealers that sell them from China / Hong Kong... Where do you recommend to buy them?
  
 Thanks


----------



## BB 808

chompy said:


> Thanks, I've read that PAA-1 Pro have the treble rolled off and that's what I don't like from my MX471, has anybody compared its treble with PK3?
> 
> I have small ears and while PK3 fit perfectly, MX471 aren't so confortable... What's the size of PAA-1 Pro?
> 
> ...




Yeah, I wish there was more treble, but it sounds pretty good overall. The PAA-1 Pro is slightly bigger than an Apple earbud. I got mine direct from Jack at Hisoundaudio. On eBay, it looks like they're all legit, but I can't be sure because I never bought from any of them.


----------



## chompy

My local dealer has Soundmagic EP10 and Sunrise Audio AS Feeling 2 in stock, will any of them improve my PK3 (knowing that I want V shape sound) or is PAA-1 Pro a better option?


----------



## BB 808

chompy said:


> My local dealer has Soundmagic EP10 and Sunrise Audio AS Feeling 2 in stock, will any of them improve my PK3 (knowing that I want V shape sound) or is PAA-1 Pro a better option?




I have not heard the Soundmagic EP10 or Sunrise Audio AS Feeling 2. I had the PK2 several years ago and I liked it until it broke. Ask your local dealer if you can try before you buy.


----------



## kjk1281

sparky191 said:


> How does the  mx 980/985 compare with the lower end MX760 which I have?




I can't really give a good, in-depth comparison, but the MX985 has better extension from bottom to top, and the presentation is more lively and less laid-back than the MX760. The MX760 has a more relaxed presentation with a wider soundstage, while the MX985 is thicker, brighter, and more immersive. I actually think they sound pretty different for two earbuds from the same manufacturer.



chompy said:


> My local dealer has Soundmagic EP10 and Sunrise Audio AS Feeling 2 in stock, will any of them improve my PK3 (knowing that I want V shape sound) or is PAA-1 Pro a better option?




Can't speak for the AS Feeling 2, but the EP10 is tuned to give a false sense of detail, and the resulting sound is harsh and bright. They're really a disappointing product as I expect better from Soundmagic and I don't recommend them.

Also, are you using foams and/or ear sleeves (rubber rings) on your MX471. I too found the MX471 a bit nasally in the midrange until I used both the ear sleeves AND the foams.


----------



## chompy

kjk1281 said:


> Can't speak for the AS Feeling 2, but the EP10 is tuned to give a false sense of detail, and the resulting sound is harsh and bright. They're really a disappointing product as I expect better from Soundmagic and I don't recommend them.
> 
> Also, are you using foams and/or ear sleeves (rubber rings) on your MX471. I too found the MX471 a bit nasally in the midrange until I used both the ear sleeves AND the foams.


 
  
 Thank you for the info... I only use ear sleeves with my MX471 (well, in fact they are from my wife) as foams "died" long time ago I've just buy from eBay a pack of foams and I'll give a new audition.
  
 I've also found a dealer that has the Sunrise AS Charm 3 for a similar price to PAA-1 Pro, and I've read that they have a slighted V shaped sound (what I'm looking for) will they be and improvement in this area compared with my PK3? Which one has better bass/treble from these three: PK3, PAA-1 Pro, Charm 3?
  
 Edit: I can also get PK2 for the same price... So please add them to my previous question (but from what I've read PK2 has even less bass than PK3, but with more "quality").


----------



## hukkfinn

Is there a way to tell if you are getting real vs. fake MX-980's?
  
 I'm in the U.S.  and have these options:
  
 EBAY:
  
  - $136 new in box from Australia
  
  - $187 new from Australia
  
  - $210 - $225 from S. Korea -- all these prices seem very low for new MX-980s??
  
 AMAZON:
  
  - $199 used, like new, but missing foam ear pieces, from Pennsylvania
  
 Same kind of story for MX-985's... $150 from Hong Kong, $250 from S. Korea.  What do the pro's in here think... take a chance that these are legit?  Some way to investigate first?  I only ask because it seems the retail price of these was MUCH higher.


----------



## airomjosh

hukkfinn said:


> Is there a way to tell if you are getting real vs. fake MX-980's?
> 
> I'm in the U.S.  and have these options:
> 
> ...


 
 Considering the price, I think those low price you posted is just the average price of BNIB MX980/985 I can get from authorized reseller of Senns here in China. You wont believe, the price here is only 123-140 USD bnew and with full warranty from Senn. I am talking about legit senns not fakes.
  
 IMO there is only one way to know if you bought legit or not, and that is after you submit your senns for authetication at their website. http://qr-sennheiser.com/index.php?id=5&L=1&id=5


----------



## hukkfinn

danneq said:


> I bought my pair of PK3 for $35 and my pair of PK2 for $55, so there wasn't that much of a difference.
> 
> I bought a pair of modded/DIY PK2 for around $20 from an Ebay seller and I think that sounds better than both the original PK2 and the PK3. The regular PK2 doesn't have any depth in the soundstage and the modded version improves on that. However, for some reason the modded PK2 works best with softer music than with rock. The soundstage makes acoustic and classical music sound very nice but with rock there's something that sounds a bit off.
> 
> The DIY earbud model Dasetn AP8 that I bought for around $7 sound better than all the other 3.



Wait,,, are you saying those $7 modded ones sound better to you than real Yuin PK2 and PK3?


----------



## Danneq

hukkfinn said:


> Wait,,, are you saying those $7 modded ones sound better to you than real Yuin PK2 and PK3?


 
  
 Yep. At least in my opinion. Mostly because of the relatively deep soundstage with good instrument placement. The regular Yuin PK 2 & 3 earbuds have a soundstage that's pretty flat...


----------



## hukkfinn

danneq said:


> Yep. At least in my opinion. Mostly because of the relatively deep soundstage with good instrument placement. The regular Yuin PK 2 & 3 earbuds have a soundstage that's pretty flat...


 

 So that would be the "AP8" right?   I'm gonna check those out!


----------



## Danneq

If the seller on Ebay still has them...


----------



## hukkfinn

Danneq, ClieOS, others:
 Any preference between Yuin OK2 vs. Sennheiser MX980/985?


----------



## ClieOS

Haven't listened to any of the OK series myself actually. But I do prefer MX985 over all the PK series for sure.


----------



## Hghuy

It depend on the genres that you are listening to!i found out that the mx980 sound too thin in the mid and too digital for me as i listen to vocal!


----------



## chompy

And how do you compare the sound of the Sunrise Charm 3 vs. Yuin PK3 vs. PAA-1 Pro?
  
 Thanks


----------



## hukkfinn

Just bought a pair of MX-985 from Ebay, for $159 including shipping, from Hong Kong.
  
 Of course, I am sweating with fear that these will be counterfeit.
  
 Will report back, once I've received and attempted to verify on Sennheiser's website.
  
 Cheers!
 -Hukk


----------



## RixNox

Guys, unfortunately may ears shape will only hold correctly in-ear earphones; I see that in the reviewed ones in this thread, there are no in-ear earphones.....


----------



## Sparky191

rixnox said:


> Guys, unfortunately may ears shape will only hold correctly in-ear earphones; I see that in the reviewed ones in this thread, there are no in-ear earphones.....


 
  
  
 You're in the wrong thread.  This is earbuds, not in ears. 
  
  
 You want this one
http://www.head-fi.org/t/478568/multi-iem-review-303-iems-compared-noble-4s-added-11-28-13-p-813/12210


----------



## RixNox

Thanks! While here, is it just me with this ear shape problem?


----------



## Sparky191

Theres lots of comments about people not liking the fit of an earphones, or not being able to keep it in their ear. So I think its fairly common. One earphone works, then next one doesn't. 
  
 You might prefer something that goes over the ear
  
http://www.topreviewshop.com/earphones_ear_monitors_and_earbuds_faq


----------



## Danneq

rixnox said:


> Guys, unfortunately may ears shape will only hold correctly in-ear earphones; I see that in the reviewed ones in this thread, there are no in-ear earphones.....


 
  
 The market for earbuds nowadays is very small and this is one of few active threads about eabuds here on Head-fi. There are many threads about canal earphones and in ear monitors.
 Personally I dislike to shove things inside my ear canals and love the open sound that earbuds give me, but that's just my subjective opinion.

 Yuin with their PK series probably have the smallest earbuds on the market.


----------



## RixNox

thanks


----------



## Hghuy

Hi,i want to try the hp-d9,hp-v99 pleaze pm me if you want to let these go.i also willing to buy the sony mdr-e484,mdr-e565.i found out that the vintage earbuds really attract me!


----------



## TwelveTrains

Just got the Sennheiser MX 365 earbuds after using Apple earbuds and Sony Fashion earbuds my whole life. Gotta say I am VERY impressed with the MX 365's!


----------



## hukkfinn

airomjosh said:


> Considering the price, I think those low price you posted is just the average price of BNIB MX980/985 I can get from authorized reseller of Senns here in China. You wont believe, the price here is only 123-140 USD bnew and with full warranty from Senn. I am talking about legit senns not fakes.
> 
> IMO there is only one way to know if you bought legit or not, and that is after you submit your senns for authetication at their website. http://qr-sennheiser.com/index.php?id=5&L=1&id=5


 
 I just received my MX985 new in box.  I went to the Sennheiser website you mentioned.
 But, there is no way to authenticate.  This box does not have the sticker that they show in their video.  It has nothing that says "QR CODE" anywhere that I can find.
 Can anybody help?
 There are five -- count 'e, FIVE - stickers on the back of the box that have Chinese writing on them.  But no "QR CODE". 
  
 Sigh.  I hope these are not fuggin' fakes.
 -Hukk


----------



## airomjosh

hukkfinn said:


> I just received my MX985 new in box.  I went to the Sennheiser website you mentioned.
> But, there is no way to authenticate.  This box does not have the sticker that they show in their video.  It has nothing that says "QR CODE" anywhere that I can find.
> Can anybody help?
> There are five -- count 'e, FIVE - stickers on the back of the box that have Chinese writing on them.  But no "QR CODE".
> ...


 
 where did you buy them?


----------



## Edouard

Just bought a pair of sennheiser mx 985 as my first pair of earbud.
 I'm really impressed on how good these sounds, they do almost everything well !
  
 The more I listen to these the more I like them !


----------



## hukkfinn

airomjosh said:


> where did you buy them?


 

 Ebay seller bigbargainonline, who has 10,000 transactions and 99.9% pos feedback
  
 Sennheiser authentication website doesn't work with their box.  That's what got me worried.  HOWEVER, the seller has now told me that Sennheisers from China are governed by a chinese authentication website, located here....
  
*http://www.sennheiser.com.cn/service-support/anti-counterfeit*
  
 Of course, it's all in chinese, so I am having trouble authenticating.  But the fact that he showed this to me and showed me which sticker on the box to check is a positive sign.


----------



## airomjosh

hukkfinn said:


> Ebay seller bigbargainonline, who has 10,000 transactions and 99.9% pos feedback
> 
> Sennheiser authentication website doesn't work with their box.  That's what got me worried.  HOWEVER, the seller has now told me that Sennheisers from China are governed by a chinese authentication website, located here....
> 
> ...


 
 oh, i see now. i agree with you, i had the chance to deal with that guy and i can vouch for his integrity as an online seller.


----------



## Edouard

Even if Bigbargain online was not an official retailer doesn't necessary mean he is selling counterfait products .
 I personaly have no doubt about what he sells !
 It"s a risk worth taking I?O


----------



## ClieOS

I have bought items from bigbargainonline over the years as well, and the transactions have always been quite positive.


----------



## Elvenefris

Exactly the thread I wanted to read, any possibility of throwing in some earbuds released closer to the ear end?
  
 I think 985 is for me. Would a portable amp make any difference to the 985?
  
*Edit*: I have a 58% off deal on the Sennheiser LX90, is it true that these keep falling out frequently? With this price I might as well pick this up and get an amp.


----------



## kanonathena

I found the MX985 to have limited dynamics or PRaT comparing to my old Blox prototype (very similar to Blox TM5 in sound quality with less bass and more highs). I say this because I couldn't feel the clear space or the edge between instruments, they all seem to grouped together by some dark fluid. No matter how explosive the music is, the sound is always tamed down and I don't get exited. And my MX985 have burnt in for more than 2 months now.
  
 MX985 reminds me of the sound IEM produces rather than the full-size can like my old Blox does. Based on my short sessions with SWD2, SWD2 has better dynamics and although my SWD2 lost sound on one side quite a while ago.


----------



## ClieOS

elvenefris said:


> *Edit*: I have a 58% off deal on the Sennheiser LX90, is it true that these keep falling out frequently? With this price I might as well pick this up and get an amp.


 
  
 Yes, fit is always a problem with all the 90 series.


----------



## chompy

> Originally Posted by *chompy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I've also found a dealer that has the Sunrise AS Charm 3 for a similar price to PAA-1 Pro, and I've read that they have a slighted V shaped sound (what I'm looking for). Will they be and improvement in this area compared with my PK3? Which one has better bass/treble from these three: PK3, PAA-1 Pro, Charm 3?


 
  
 Anybody please?


----------



## Danneq

Well, I don't think that I can contribute too much since I haven't heard the PAA-1 Pro, but at least I can give my quick opinions on the Sunrise AS Charm 3 and Yuin PK3. I'd say that the PK3 have got a much more "fun" sound than the Charm 3, which has got a thinner and more "analytic" sound. The PK3 has got fuller and more forward mids and slightly "boomy" bass. The Charm 3 doesn't have the same nice mids but on the other hand, bass is slightly more detailed.
 From what I have read about the PAA-1 Pro, they are pretty dark and bassy, so the 3 earbuds are quite different in sound: Sunrise Charm 3 is pretty neutral with clear highs, PK3 has got great mids and the PAA-1 Pro has got a lot of bass...

 Here are two reviews of the Charm 3:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/642007/review-the-charming-sunrise-charm-3-sr80
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/657551/review-sunrise-audio-charm3-and-dragon2


 There's also the Vsonic UU2:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/290877755704?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649
  
 And the Sunrise AS Feeling 2:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/380463178064?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

 I think both of those are around Yuin PK3 or slightly below when it comes to sound quality...

 Edit: If the seller ships to your country, I'd really recommend these earbuds: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=141131804999&item=141131804999&vectorid=229466
  
 They are not very bassy and highs are slightly harsh, but the Dasetn AP8 has got great depth in its soundstage. The soundstages of the Yuin PK3 and Sunrise AS Charm 3 sound very flat in comparison. For this low price they are really recommended!


----------



## hukkfinn

hukkfinn said:


> I bought my Sennheiser MX-985 from:
> Ebay seller bigbargainonline, who has 10,000 transactions and 99.9% pos feedback
> 
> Sennheiser authentication website doesn't work with their box.  That's what got me worried.  HOWEVER, the seller has now told me that Sennheisers from China are governed by a chinese authentication website, located here....
> ...


 
  
 UPDATE:  Sennheiser USA says these earbuds are genuine.  I never could use the Chinese website, so I mailed them to Sennheiser in CT.  They were VERY nice, friendly and helpful.
  
 Happy Ending.  Whew.  Bigbargainonline, sorry I doubted you.


----------



## airomjosh

hukkfinn said:


> UPDATE:  Sennheiser USA says these earbuds are genuine.  I never could use the Chinese website, so I mailed them to Sennheiser in CT.  They were VERY nice, friendly and helpful.
> 
> Happy Ending.  Whew.  Bigbargainonline, sorry I doubted you.


 
 Congrats, no more sleepless nights. Enjoy the holidays with your MX-985


----------



## hukkfinn

hukkfinn said:


> I just received my MX985 new in box.


 
 OK, so how do the Sennheiser MX-985 sound?
  
 Direct into my iPhone 4S, they sound great.  They completely crush the Apple i-anything white earbuds, which actually sound very good if you use the black fuzzies which keep them more secure in your ears.  The MX985 have much better bass, dynamics, and air/space/transparency.  Very punchy compared to the Apple earbuds.  And much more realistic midrange.
  
 However, the MX985 are not "world class" in terms of treble purity, space, and transparency.  Good, and pleasing, but not Rolls-Royce superior.   My home stereo sounds better (then again, my home stereo is very serious).
  
 Note that I'm a very picky mofo, and if I say the MX985 are "good", that is a strong recommendation from me.  Most audio gear falls into the "fail" or "total fail" category for me.
  
 I will wait until my JDS C5 portable amp and Fiio L3 line out dock arrive, and post more thoughts then.  It will be fun to see if Rolls Royce sound can come from a total investment of $350 in 'buds, amp and LOD.
  
 -Hukk


----------



## goldenSHK

The Blox ANV3se has been on sale for ~3 days now meaning either Blox has finally stepped up their production capacities and got a few hundred ANV3se buds made or Blox is having major sales trouble as before they usually all sold out within 1 day.


----------



## BenF

goldenshk said:


> The Blox ANV3se has been on sale for ~3 days now meaning either Blox has finally stepped up their production capacities and got a few hundred ANV3se buds made or Blox is having major sales trouble as before they usually all sold out within 1 day.


 
  
 I think they might have damaged their image with the BI3.
 People aren't as excited about Blox products as before.


----------



## goldenSHK

benf said:


> I think they might have damaged their image with the BI3.
> People aren't as excited about Blox products as before.


 
 Blox ANV3se is still up for sale even now. WOW. I think at this point it means a combination of both.
  
  
 EDIT: lol just refreshed the page 30 seconds ago and they are gone. Whoops.


----------



## chompy

danneq said:


> Well, I don't think that I can contribute too much since I haven't heard the PAA-1 Pro, but at least I can give my quick opinions on the Sunrise AS Charm 3 and Yuin PK3. I'd say that the PK3 have got a much more "fun" sound than the Charm 3, which has got a thinner and more "analytic" sound. The PK3 has got fuller and more forward mids and slightly "boomy" bass. The Charm 3 doesn't have the same nice mids but on the other hand, bass is slightly more detailed.
> From what I have read about the PAA-1 Pro, they are pretty dark and bassy, so the 3 earbuds are quite different in sound: Sunrise Charm 3 is pretty neutral with clear highs, PK3 has got great mids and the PAA-1 Pro has got a lot of bass...
> 
> Here are two reviews of the Charm 3:
> ...


 
  
 Lots of thanks Danneq for your detailed answer!!
  
 Best wishes


----------



## goldenSHK

My Dasetn AP8 earbuds that I bought on eBay arrived today, and after a couple of hours of listening I wanted to chime in on some preliminary impressions (they've only been burned in ~10 hours). The soundstage is much deeper than I thought for something I bought for $13. It is really deep, but not as wide as my Ultrasone Pro 900. Also, I'm very impressed about the bass. Much more bassy than I thought, but the bass is impressive and not really muddy. The highs are a bit harsh/sibilant, but revealing. Maybe with some burn in they will round out a bit. If not, I'm fine with them as is. The mids are not overshadowed by either the highs or the bass which means an overall balanced signature with a bassy tilt. I don't have Blox to compare them to at this time, but I am going to bet that they beat the Blox at least on build quality. I'm pretty stringent on what I would like to listen to even in terms of beater gym headphones; however, I have to say that I'm pretty impressed with these so I'll be tossing them in my backpack every morning. These things seem pretty well made and built of quality materials (I mean, these things do have Audio Technica logos on the cable so that could be why). I'll let them burn in a bit more and listen to them some more before writing a real review. Danneq, since you're the only person I know with the AP8s, does this sound in line with your pair as well? 
  
  
 I'm wondering if ClieOS could get these since he has heard so many buds then he could tell us where these stack up in the hierarchy. Honestly, if he doesn't want to get them, I might be willing to chip in the $13 for these to send to him just because I am that curious where these stack up. Please get these ClieOS! 
  
 Will be back in a couple of days to write a longer review.


----------



## Wokei

goldenshk said:


> My Dasetn AP8 earbuds that I bought on eBay arrived today, and after a couple of hours of listening I wanted to chime in on some preliminary impressions (they've only been burned in ~10 hours). The soundstage is much deeper than I thought for something I bought for $13. It is really deep, but not as wide as my Ultrasone Pro 900. Also, I'm very impressed about the bass. Much more bassy than I thought, but the bass is impressive and not really muddy. The highs are a bit harsh/sibilant, but revealing. Maybe with some burn in they will round out a bit. If not, I'm fine with them as is. The mids are not overshadowed by either the highs or the bass which means an overall balanced signature with a bassy tilt. I don't have Blox to compare them to at this time, but I am going to bet that they beat the Blox at least on build quality. I'm pretty stringent on what I would like to listen to even in terms of beater gym headphones; however, I have to say that I'm pretty impressed with these so I'll be tossing them in my backpack every morning. These things seem pretty well made and built of quality materials (I mean, these things do have Audio Technica logos on the cable so that could be why). I'll let them burn in a bit more and listen to them some more before writing a real review. Danneq, since you're the only person I know with the AP8s, does this sound in line with your pair as well?
> 
> 
> I'm wondering if ClieOS could get these since he has heard so many buds then he could tell us where these stack up in the hierarchy. Honestly, if he doesn't want to get them, I might be willing to chip in the $13 for these to send to him just because I am that curious where these stack up. Please get these ClieOS!
> ...




Yes they are that good but I got them about a year ago. Sad to say I don't own any high end bud like Blox or Sennheiser. With a little burn in.. The high will be tamed and it is one of my favourite go to bud. 

Good one you got there


----------



## Misterbushido-

This maybe out of question, but if you have to choose earbuds for Movie and gaming,
  
 Which one do you prefered?


----------



## Wokei

misterbushido- said:


> This maybe out of question, but if you have to choose earbuds for Movie and gaming,
> 
> Which one do you prefered?




Between the DIY Yuin and AP8....... I would go for AP8 because the soundstage is just excellent and for the price... It's a no brainer for less then usd20. 

I don't own any other brand earbuds except Yuin and DIY Yuin PK2 n PK3 and lastly AP8...... So that is my basis of comparison.


----------



## goldenSHK

wokei said:


> Between the DIY Yuin and AP8....... I would go for AP8 because the soundstage is just excellent and for the price... It's a no brainer for less then usd20.
> 
> I don't own any other brand earbuds except Yuin and DIY Yuin PK2 n PK3 and lastly AP8...... So that is my basis of comparison.


 
 Wokei, since you own the Yuins, how do you think the AP8 compares to them? Is it worth buying the PK2 and PK3 after getting the AP8 or should I not bother and only save up for better buds (I heard there's a new Blox coming in 2014).


----------



## Wokei

goldenshk said:


> Wokei, since you own the Yuins, how do you think the AP8 compares to them? Is it worth buying the PK2 and PK3 after getting the AP8 or should I not bother and only save up for better buds (I heard there's a new Blox coming in 2014).




For me.... Just get the AP8s for the moment and if you think you would like to try Yuin... Then do so later after you have tried AP8. 

AP8 definitely have better soundstage n separation compared to the original Yuin PK3 and the DIY Yuin PK2 and PK3 that I owned. To go a little further., my original Yuin PK3 did not last that long about 6 months with delicate TLC but my Dasetn DIY Yuin PK2 and PK3 have better cable and both have lasted almost +1 year and still look to be in very good condition. Even the sound of the DIY Yuin is better than the original PK3. 

But I still think AP8 is the best of the lot.


----------



## goldenSHK

wokei said:


> For me.... Just get the AP8s for the moment and if you think you would like to try Yuin... Then do so later after you have tried AP8.
> 
> AP8 definitely have better soundstage n separation compared to the original Yuin PK3 and the DIY Yuin PK2 and PK3 that I owned. To go a little further., my original Yuin PK3 did not last that long about 6 months with delicate TLC but my Dasetn DIY Yuin PK2 and PK3 have better cable and both have lasted almost +1 year and still look to be in very good condition. Even the sound of the DIY Yuin is better than the original PK3.
> 
> But I still think AP8 is the best of the lot.


 
 That's good to hear. I've been listening to the AP8 most of today and comparing to my Denon and Ultrasone headphones. The modded Denon D2000 appears to be in a different league, but for $12 this thing is pretty darn good haha. The bass has mellowed out a bit, but not much more has happened after hours of burn in. I'm pretty satisfied with these although I wish I could find an earbud that is in the league of the old Denons and Fostex cans.These will definitely be in my pocket everyday though. They are as good as I suspected.


----------



## Danneq

Great that you like the AP8, goldenSHK! I will comment more on your impressions when I have more time.
  
 I have sent a message to Dasetn on Ebay complimenting on his earbuds and suggested that he branch out. He replied:
 "Yes, I can sell to you! Can you help me to sell to your country, I am building a company! Next year I will to customize headphone like ue and westone... If you are interested, please tell me, thank you sincerely! Waiting for your reply"
  
 Now, I cannot help much except buying his stuff, but I replied that I will spread this on Head-fi and then perhaps someone can come with suggestions. I wrote that I hoped that he will focus in earbuds since he easily can compete with other Chinese makers such as Hisoundaudio and Yuin and the earbud market is small. But of course he would probably want to expand into the IEM market as well...

 If he would try to make an audio company, I suppose that he would have to stop using stuff from Audio Technica and other makers since that could get him into trouble. He could still use generic Sennheiser MX400 style housing as Blox does.
 Anyway, there's big talent there that I hope don't go to waste.


----------



## goldenSHK

danneq said:


> Great that you like the AP8, goldenSHK! I will comment more on your impressions when I have more time.
> 
> I have sent a message to Dasetn on Ebay complimenting on his earbuds and suggested that he branch out. He replied:
> "Yes, I can sell to you! Can you help me to sell to your country, I am building a company! Next year I will to customize headphone like ue and westone... If you are interested, please tell me, thank you sincerely! Waiting for your reply"
> ...


 
 I sent a message on eBay to Dasetn asking him when his MX1 earbuds will be back in stock. I doubt any time soon, but one can hope. I honestly think he would be better off if he just focused on earbuds and didn't spread his limited resources too thin. His only earbud that I have is pretty decent and can't wait to compare it to the ANV3se soon. I would love to buy his MX1 for $15. I think if he focused on his niche, he would make enough money and start a good following after enough people hear about these buds. Trying to compete with Westone and all the other CIEM companies seems like David taking on Goliath. Why not just partner up with Blox or just learn from them and find European and American distributors for the buds? He could sell these like hotcakes if they take off.


----------



## kcee

Does anyone have a good recommendation for a solid sounding earbud with a mic for phone calls ?
  
 I use pk2's for everything these days, and just find the earbud style to be the most comfortable....cannot get iem's to fit comfortably.
 I have seen a few dead links to ebay pages that had modified pk2's with a mic cable, or at least that was said to be true, never saw an actual alive link.
  
 When trying to search for actual earbuds with mic on ebay or amazon or wherever, it is very challenging because most people do not differentiate between iem's and earbuds. The searching I have done on head-fi is either really old and unavailable stuff or just leads nowhere.
  
 Anyways, if anyone has a recommendation, it would be greatly appreciated. I am starting to lose my mind a little bit searching for these.


----------



## bonfirehay

kcee said:


> Does anyone have a good recommendation for a solid sounding earbud with a mic for phone calls ?
> 
> I use pk2's for everything these days, and just find the earbud style to be the most comfortable....cannot get iem's to fit comfortably.
> I have seen a few dead links to ebay pages that had modified pk2's with a mic cable, or at least that was said to be true, never saw an actual alive link.
> ...


 
 Apple Earpods


----------



## kcee

bonfirehay said:


> Apple Earpods


 
  
 Thanks for that, I had no idea those even existed....at all.
  
 Just in case anyone is interested, I did find a pair of Sunrise AS-Feeling II with mic for sale on ebay.
 Legit or not I figured it was worth a shot because they fit my criteria and the seller has alot of feedback.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Before I found this thread, I paid full "Buy it now" price for the Yuin PK3 DIY (From eBay seller: joco70901).

Personally, I REALLY like them a lot. I think they are wonderful for watching Movies and TV Shows. Soundstage and detail are great. 

Also, never thought I would be into earbuds, but they are SUPER comfortable. 

I made the mistake of letting my girlfriend try them. They are now hers. She loves how they sound and that she can have them in her ears while she lays down on her pillow while we watch TV. (We have to use earbuds so we do not wake up her 9 year old daughter). 

So, after giving the PK3 DIY to my girl, I needed to get another pair. This time I bid on the PK2 DIY and got them for $10.57 USD and free shipping!

They are currently on the way accross the ocean, I will have to wait a few weeks to try them out, but will post my thoughts then.


Also looking to get a pair of the Dasetn AP8. I just got out bid, I will keep trying until I can get a pair for a good price.

..


----------



## bonfirehay

the PK3 are DIY or originals? looking forward to ear your comparisonn with the diy pk2


----------



## fleasbaby

bloodypenguin said:


> Before I found this thread, I paid full "Buy it now" price for the Yuin PK3 DIY (From eBay seller: joco70901).
> 
> Personally, I REALLY like them a lot. I think they are wonderful for watching Movies and TV Shows. Soundstage and detail are great.
> 
> ...




I got a pair of the AP8 and they haven't gotten much love...I battled with fit, and the sound wasn't quite what I like...drop me a PM if you want a pair for the cost of shipping


----------



## kjk1281

If anybody's interested, I started a Head-Fi group for earbud lovers.

http://www.head-fi.org/groups/show/29/earbud-enthusiasts

Feel free to join and start a thread!


----------



## fleasbaby

Nice. Just subbed.


----------



## goldenSHK

fleasbaby said:


> I got a pair of the AP8 and they haven't gotten much love...I battled with fit, and the sound wasn't quite what I like...drop me a PM if you want a pair for the cost of shipping


 
 I enjoy the AP8 even loosely fit. It gives up some bass for a more airy soundstage. Although some songs I prefer the fit to be different for that extra bass, do you not enjoy their sound signature or do you mean fit in terms of pain and discomfort?


----------



## fleasbaby

I have some funky ears I think...the left stayed in fine, with or without foamies...the right just wouldn't. It kept feeling like it would fall out...


----------



## costas23

nice and very informative review on page 1 and thread in general - thanks a lot for the effort!

  

 only recently and after an extensive and expensive search for the perfect earphones I found out by accident, that I enjoy earbuds the most, more than IEMs and even my big headphones.
 This is mainly due to the easy fit and open sound of the buds which leads to a nice and natural soundstage. Being light and comfortable and having no seal, it is also easy to forget about them in your ears and they sound more like speakers than any other form of ear/head-phones IMO.

  

 Unfortunately, I found this out only recently and after spending a large amount of cash on headphones and IEMs.

  

 When I cleaned up my basement 2 months ago I found my old Sony e888 earbuds in a little box with my Sony MD Player which I packed away when we moved 10 years ago. They were like new and practically unused when I packed them away and now that I found them again they are vintage, haha.

 I bought those e888 around the year 2000 and totally forgot about them. However this old gems IMO still deliver!

  

 I searched up this thread as I wanted to read how these oldie-buds keep up to recent technology and was surprised to see them being rated far worse compared to other earbuds (last one of the „good“ ones). I don’t intend to disagree and totally respect the reviewers effort and opinion as I haven’t heard the other earbuds mentioned in the round-up (except the Sennheiser mx985).

  

 However, I had the great opportunity to try some well regarded IEMs, thanks to a very generous friend and fellow head-fier (james, if you ever happen to read this, thanks a LOT!)

 Many of those IEMs were great and some of them really amazed me (like the AKG 3003, jvc fx700, ie800, sony ex1000 and others), but the Sony e888 still have the most natural sound IMO. It's not the best, the others are technically much better, but the e888 sounds IMO more natural (maybe its a coloration, I don't know). Maybe because of the earbud design that just suits me better but also the bio-cellulose driver of the e888 sounds very clean and effortless for a dynamic one. It sounds similar to Vsonic Gr07 mk2 but without the subbass due to earbud design, but with better soundstage and midrange.

  

 I am not skillful enough to point out subtle differences of sounds as I am not a musician, I just enjoy music and my search for the perfect sound was to find the (to me) most natural sounding phone. So maybe it is just the nostalgia factor that brain-washes me, and the e888 isn‘t actually as good as I think. I also have to admit, that in general I prefer dynamic driver sound to balanced armatures. BAs though often clearer than DDs just don‘t create the same kind of emotion and thus sound less natural to me. ( btw I have no experience with CIEMs)

 The dilemma is also, that I haven’t even been to live performances that often and can’t objectively say if an instrument sounds natural or not, so please take my findings with a large spoon of salt and as just my own humble opinion!

  

 So for me the e888 beats my Sennheiser ie80 and Hifiman re262 as well as my big guys - Grado RS1i, Grado 325i (which I love for its PRaT), Hifiman HE400 and Sony 7520 in the naturality of the sound presentation!

  

 To cut the story short, I bought the Sennheiser MX985 some weeks ago due to its well regarded sound quality. I just wanted the best earbud on the market (I also have the Blox TM7 coming in soon, which I am also eager to compare).

 When I put the mx985 in my ears (after some burn in) I like the sound quality with the nice punchy mid-bass and the clear sound. It is very enjoyable and sounds like a good modern earbud without reasonable flaws but the subtle details and „magic“ in the voices and the natural instrument placement and sound just isn’t there compared to the Sony.

  

 There are many reviews of the e888 which state that it is just an average earphone, but maybe there are just too many fakes around or Sony had bad quality control back then (or more likely my ears just hear differently), I don’t know. I have the japanese version and my source is the Hifiman hm801, so maybe it is just a good match between them, as my sansa clip+ doesn’t show the full potential of the soundstage that is possible with these earbuds.

  

 So the point of this whole writing is to show that those old vintage earbuds still deliver and if you find one on ebay or whereever just grab them. I am also dreaming of those nice Aiwa phones, but they are just so hard to get.    

  

 Sorry for bothering you with a long read, guess I just have to admit, that I am a total e888-fanboy. However, there is just something about earbuds, that I guess only us earbud afficionados can understand. I am glad I finally found out


----------



## Danneq

Hi costas23 and thanks for your post.

 I haven't heard the E888, but I own a few older Sony models, such as E484, E282 and E252. They all sound great. Would I say that I prefer them to my Sennheiser MX980 or Blox TM7? Perhaps not. But it's all a matter of personal preference. The MX980 and TM7 have a fuller sound than the older Sony models, but perhaps voices aren't accentuated in the same way?
 If you have read about the DIY earbuds from a guy in Hong Kong who calls himself Dasetn, I'd try to track one of his earbuds down if I were you. They sound amazing considering the low price. I'm especially amazed by a pair of Dasetn MX1, based on the old Sennheiser MX400 housing, that rivals my Blox TM7. I paid $150 for the Blox and around $20 for the MX1. The soundstage and detail is better on the MX1 with great depth and instrument layering while bass and "overall fullness" is better on the TM7.
 Dasetn used to sell his stuff on Ebay. He's trying to start his own company and make earbuds that he can sell. I just hope he sticks to his own earbud models (such as the MX1), that are based on more generic designs rather than doing DIY modificiations of well known brands...

 I wish you the best of luck in exploring the (small) earbud world.


----------



## costas23

Thanks Danneq for your post, I just sent Dasetn an email via Ebay. Hope he still produces them as there is no item listed in his ebay-shop at the moment.
I read your and others positive impressions on the Dasetn earbuds so I’m very interested, especially at those prices. 
 
Btw how do his DIY yuin buds compare to the original ones? The price difference is considerable and I was planning to buy one of the yuins soon.
 
 About the Sony e888, yes its definitely a matter of personal preference and I hope I could make it clear and not generalize it in my previous post. 
 I just was surprised at the low rating as I am really impressed by it and have compared it to many well regarded IEMs and headphones. I especially like that they sound rather neutral without any spikes and overly done accentuations, presenting a very natural sound.
  
 My mx985 is very good, fun and clear sounding and totally deserves high regards but it is less neutral and has less detail in the lows/mids and highs to my ears. Maybe my mx985 unit is worse than normal, as it has some spikes in the mid-bass and highs but i’ll get the TM7 soon so I’ll post my impressions and compare the 3 with each other. 
  
 I mainly want to point out that the quality of vintage buds should not be neglected. Producers at those times (before IEMs) were putting a lot more effort and spent more R&D-money on earbuds and their dynamic drivers than today. Think of Aiwa and its diamond covered drivers, Sony’s bio-cellulose technology and other exotic materials and so on… todays top-tier IEMs are mainly based around BA-technology and DD-technology gets less attention unfortunately. 
  
 So it‘s good to know that there are still people behind Blox, Yuin and Dasetn, who despite low budgets and limited accessories/materials try to push the earbud technology further


----------



## fleasbaby

Not sure if this is being talked about elsewhere, but I just picked up a pair of M2C on the Blox website. Looks like they have stock again...


----------



## Hghuy

Mdr-e888 have a narrow soundstage compare to other vintage earbuds.i also feel that the high is not well extended.i don't know about the mx985 but i had the mx980,the sound of the mx980 is digital compare to other vintage earbuds.It also depend on your DAP.


----------



## kcee

fleasbaby said:


> Not sure if this is being talked about elsewhere, but I just picked up a pair of M2C on the Blox website. Looks like they have stock again...


 
  
 Thanks for the tip ! Ordered !


----------



## fleasbaby

...for those wondering about the M2c's latest iteration and the tuning of the drivers, Woo has confirmed that they did indeed change them. He did not specify how though. The materials are still the same.

I had a pair of the old ones quite a while back. I hope I can recall enough to tell the differences when I receive the new ones.

@Clieos, have you tried the newer ones?


----------



## costas23

just got a reply from Dasetn (or the guy behind it), he writes that he will introduce more headphones (however no info on what kind of phones and which models). He also launched a website dasetn(dot)com
 just checked the website out but no earbuds at the moment.... hope that we will see some new earbuds from him soon (I'm especially interested in the mx1  )


----------



## audioops

costas23 said:


> just got a reply from Dasetn (or the guy behind it), he writes that he will introduce more headphones (however no info on what kind of phones and which models). He also launched a website dasetn(dot)com
> just checked the website out but no earbuds at the moment.... hope that we will see some new earbuds from him soon (I'm especially interested in the mx1  )


 
 Please be aware that there is reason to be cautious about dealing with Dasetn (see: http://www.head-fi.org/t/707468/diy-yuin-pk3s-failed-about-a-few-months-seller-dasetn-now-refuses-to-reply).


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I currently have four earbuds by Dasetn. Two DIY PK3, One DIY PK2 and One DIY AP8. I have yet to have an issue with any of them. But if I do, I will make sure to post it here.


----------



## Danneq

Haven't had any problem with my Dasetn stuff yet and he's been very nice. I bought a pair of Dasetn MX1 for around $15 that never arrived. I contacted him and told him that I never received the MX1, and then he cancelled the purchase and refunded my money. I bought a new pair that did reach me (these cost $20 since he had added shipping costs).
  
 He seems to be doing this alone and doesn't seem to be 100% fluent in English, so I think he's doing a good job considering his limited resources...


----------



## goldenSHK

bloodypenguin said:


> I currently have four earbuds by Dasetn. Two DIY PK3, One DIY PK2 and One DIY AP8. I have yet to have an issue with any of them. But if I do, I will make sure to post it here.


 
 Which model do you like the best from Dasetn in terms of overall sound quality?


----------



## BenF

costas23 said:


> just got a reply from Dasetn (or the guy behind it), he writes that he will introduce more headphones (however no info on what kind of phones and which models). He also launched a website dasetn(dot)com
> just checked the website out but no earbuds at the moment.... hope that we will see some new earbuds from him soon (I'm especially interested in the mx1  )


 
  
 MX1 is discontinued.
 I have his new flagship - MX760. It is fantastic!
 I am waiting for him to answer some of my questions before publishing a review.


----------



## Hghuy

WHere did he list the mx760.i want to try


----------



## BenF

hghuy said:


> WHere did he list the mx760.i want to try


 

 Bought directly from him.
 It will be released soon, I am waiting for him to tell exactly when and where.


----------



## Hghuy

benf said:


> Bought directly from him.
> It will be released soon, I am waiting for him to tell exactly when and where.



How much does it cost?how is the sound signature?can you post the information when you receive it from him?thanks


----------



## ClieOS

fleasbaby said:


> @Clieos, have you tried the newer ones?


 
  
 Sorry for the late reply. No, I haven't heard the new one.


----------



## BenF

hghuy said:


> How much does it cost?how is the sound signature?can you post the information when you receive it from him?thanks


 

 The retail price isn't known yet. I got it at the "introductory" price, which doesn't necessarily represent the final price.
 I will post the full review as soon as he responds to my questions.


----------



## Danneq

This is what worries me about some of Dasetn's designs: when he decides to release a DIY mod version of established maker's earbud models. He should not have done a straight mod of the Sennheiser MX760. I love my MX1 and have no doubt that the MX760 sound great, but he should have continued with the generic housing of the MX1 (although that was originally also a Sennheiser design - for the MX400 model). I mean, I don't want Dasetn to be sued by a established company when he's got a real talent for making good sounding earbuds...


----------



## BenF

danneq said:


> This is what worries me about some of Dasetn's designs: when he decides to release a DIY mod version of established maker's earbud models. He should not have done a straight mod of the Sennheiser MX760. I love my MX1 and have no doubt that the MX760 sound great, but he should have continued with the generic housing of the MX1 (although that was originally also a Sennheiser design - for the MX400 model). I mean, I don't want Dasetn to be sued by a established company when he's got a real talent for making good sounding earbuds...


 

  
 He did recable the MX760 to the proper length, but left the "MX760" part on it.
 The housing does have "Sennheiser" on it, but he is very clear that this is not the original Sennheiser product.
 Technically, you can buy a Ford car, mod it and sell it for higher price - it's not illegal, even if you leave the "Ford" trademark on it.
  
 He is too small to be sued.
 Go to taobao and see how many Sennheiser fakes are there.
 Even on Amazon.com people complain of getting fake IE80.


----------



## Danneq

Well, I do hope that Dasetn doesn't get in any trouble. Still, I think his products could reach a bigger audience if he went with generic housings instead of re-using those of well known brands (especially with the brand name still on them!).

 This guy's got some talent for making good sounding earbuds with great detail and an expansive soundstage, and with more resources he could compete with Blox.


----------



## BenF

danneq said:


> Well, I do hope that Dasetn doesn't get in any trouble. Still, I think his products could reach a bigger audience if he went with generic housings instead of re-using those of well known brands (especially with the brand name still on them!).
> 
> This guy's got some talent for making good sounding earbuds with great detail and an expansive soundstage, and with more resources he could compete with Blox.


 

 If he would concentrate on the earbuds, he could definitely outshine Blox.
 MX760 is as good or better than ANV3SE, which is a great earbud that sells out very quickly at 100$.
 He could make some serious money with MX760, if he prices it right.


----------



## costas23

I don't believe that he could get in trouble, he hopefully legitimately bought the sennheiser mx760 parts somewhere, and if he uses and even highly modifies them for something else that is not illegal IMO.
  
 However this Dasetn guy is a mystery, how can he charge only 20$ for hand-made earbuds with quality parts and stil make profit out of it (and even give a guarantee time to customers)??
  
 @Benf: I guess you are in contact to Dasetn, do you happen to know when the mx760 or mx1 will be available?
 Or does anybody else here, who has contact to him, has an idea?
  
 What about a group order, so that he can estimate demand better? Count me in!
  
 btw. if you google "Dasetn mx760" there is already a group order in a french forum. I don't speak french but googles translation helped a bit....


----------



## BenF

MX1 won't be available anymore.
 MX760 will be available real soon, but I don't know the exact date.
  
 I don't think he'll keep the 20$ price as with MX1, MX760 is even better sounding (according to him) and can easily compete with other top earbuds.


----------



## jant71

I'd be in for one. Time for me to try something of his. Are they gonna cost enough that we really need a group buy? Doubt it.
  
 Don't know about estimating demand. He is most likely gonna make what he can based on the parts then make another model. Surprised if there is not a limited amount of 760 parts and that will be the factor that controls the production run of this particular model of his. Get them while you can 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## costas23

I received the Blox TM7 today and it is a really nice earbud. I did not have much time with it yet but it met my expectations and didn't dissapoint .
 A little more lower bass and punch in general would be nice but it sounds very refined, clear and has a nice soundstage.
 I am looking forward to listen to it more on the weekend and maybe post some subjective impressions also compared to the sennheiser mx985 and Sony e888.


----------



## BenF

costas23 said:


> I received the Blox TM7 today and it is a really nice earbud. I did not have much time with it yet but it met my expectations and didn't dissapoint .
> A little more lower bass and punch in general would be nice but it sounds very refined, clear and has a nice soundstage.
> I am looking forward to listen to it more on the weekend and maybe post some subjective impressions also compared to the sennheiser mx985 and Sony e888.


 

 Where did you get it from?
 And are you sure it is TM7? All the M2C/ANV3/ANV3SE/TM7 look the same...


----------



## costas23

bought it used from a fellow head-fier -> http://www.head-fi.org/t/702730/blox-tm7-rare
  
 yes it should be the TM7, says so on the box and it is black, think the others are dark grey or something. Besides the seller seems very trustworthy and I believe him. I'll try to post some pictures when I'll do the comparison


----------



## Danneq

Yep, they look like my TM7 that I bought from Blox...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

My personal scores on these three Dasetn earbuds:









Notes:

PK3 - The PK3 DIY Mod is the clear winner for me. For $10 paid (eBay winning bid), it is an amazing earbud. I could not be happier with it. 


PK2 - Looks great, but something about the sound is just not right, seems messy. HUGE Soundstage and great looks though.


AP8 - Large, heavy earbuds. Hard to get a good fit. Will fall out easy with any movement. Also gets tangled VERY easily. Sound is just average.

..


----------



## fleasbaby

Looks like my new M2C arrived today...can't wait to hear them and see how the "new version" stacks up.


----------



## fleasbaby

Very brief, first impressions...from what I recall, the original M2C was rather crisp and clean, and the soundstage was almost unnaturally wide. These are warmer, and the soundstage is less artificial, more natural. I am expecting the warmth to cool down a little with burn-in...
  
 Next to my PK3 they sound more like a pair of full-size cans. The sound is richer...more reminiscent of what I recall my TM7 sounding like. I need to spend more time with them, but so far I like what I hear...


----------



## fleasbaby

bloodypenguin said:


> My personal scores on these three Dasetn earbuds:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I agree on the AP8....too much emphasis on durability, not enough emphasis on comfort and sound...


----------



## fleasbaby

Two hours in with the M2C and still liking what I hear. Switched from my decrepit old Sony MP3 player, to an iPod Touch 1G for a while, then to my Clip +...

The ever-so-slightly heavy warmth is gone now, and I am getting deep, detailed bass, and clean highs. Soundstage sounds natural and placement is great...

These definitely are an improvement over what I recall of the old M2C, and a good substitute for anyone who doesn't have the TM7 on hand.

...more to come.


----------



## Grayson73

Is the purpose of earbuds over IEMs so that you can hear your surroundings?  Will open or semi-open IEMs have the same effect?
  
 Also, how loud will they be to the neighbor?  Wondering if my co-workers will be able to hear what I'm listening to.


----------



## BenF

grayson73 said:


> Is the purpose of earbuds over IEMs so that you can hear your surroundings?  Will open or semi-open IEMs have the same effect?
> 
> Also, how loud will they be to the neighbor?  Wondering if my co-workers will be able to hear what I'm listening to.


 

 Earbuds have very little isolation, which means you may need to up the volume to dangerous levels to enjoy your music in a noisy environment.
 I never listen to music when walking around. Use earbuds for my quiet office, when I need to hear the phone ringing.
 If there are people around me, I only use closed headphones or IEMs, don't want them to listen to my music.
  
 Semi-open IEMs (e.g. RE-400) will usually isolate better.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

fleasbaby said:


> Two hours in with the M2C and still liking what I hear. Switched from my decrepit old Sony MP3 player, to an iPod Touch 1G for a while, then to my Clip +...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Crap! I should have ordered a pair! Too late now, they are sold out.

..


----------



## The Dan of Steel

> Crap! I should have ordered a pair! Too late now, they are sold out.
> 
> ..


 
 I too had these open in a tab and was trying to make up my mind when I saw your post. Oh well. Pulled the trigger on the now renamed M760 on Dasetn's page. I had also contacted BeB about their lineup and they are still available. To the poster who asked about an earbud with a mic (much earlier), the Beb 328rm has a mic and is 32.99.


----------



## Grayson73

benf said:


> Earbuds have very little isolation, which means you may need to up the volume to dangerous levels to enjoy your music in a noisy environment.
> I never listen to music when walking around. Use earbuds for my quiet office, when I need to hear the phone ringing.
> If there are people around me, I only use closed headphones or IEMs, don't want them to listen to my music.
> 
> Semi-open IEMs (e.g. RE-400) will usually isolate better.


 
 I was thinking the opposite.  I need to be able to hear what people are saying and I need to be able to hear the phone ring, so earbuds or open IEMs would be better than closed or super isolating IEMs.


----------



## jant71

So, Dasetn talks a bit about what he did with that M3 but not so much with the M760. What is modded on them? "Balanced sound" also makes me weary as in they might be bass light in reality. I have a UU2 so balanced is covered. Not convinced to pull the trigger.


----------



## goldenSHK

I think the M760 is the flagship earbud model currently. Is this correct?


----------



## smith

the dan of steel said:


> I too had these open in a tab and was trying to make up my mind when I saw your post. Oh well. Pulled the trigger on the now renamed M760 on Dasetn's page. I had also contacted BeB about their lineup and they are still available. To the poster who asked about an earbud with a mic (much earlier), the Beb 328rm has a mic and is 32.99.





The BeB earbud is fantastic for the price ! ....Great bass and it handles vocals very well.


----------



## oopeteroo

is dasetn M760 good for vocal/mids ?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

smith said:


> The BeB earbud is fantastic for the price ! ....Great bass and it handles vocals very well.



 


Awesome, I read some reviews on the Blue Ever Blue (BeB) 328R "The Black". Seems to be a decent one for the price. 

I ended up emailing BeB's General Inquiries, telling them I head read about it here on Head-Fi and asked if there were any promotions. 

I got this responce: 

____

"Hi Justin,

There is no promotion code for them, but we ship free to the US and Canada. I can give you a $5 discount since you saw us on Head-Fi.org. 

I can have a Paypal invoice sent to you for $19.99 if you want to proceed.


Best regards,

Bentley Plummer
Customer Service
Blue Ever Blue LLC"
____


So of course I ordered a pair! 

I'm totally hooked on Earbuds now, really wish I had found this thread sooner! 

Head-Fi is still crushing my wallet, but making my ears so happy.

..


----------



## oopeteroo

did anyone order from dasetn.com ?
bought the m760 but didn't get any order confirmation or tracking number


----------



## The Dan of Steel

I did but haven't gotten anything yet either. Was planning on sending an email tomorrow to follow up. By the way BeB stated they are giving anyone who mentions head-fi the $5 discount on their 328r and 328rm only. I'll probably order one of those too.


----------



## Richard Ray

checking number 1 week can ,checking


----------



## oopeteroo

richard ray said:


> checking number 1 week can ,checking


 
  
 i have emailed lisa from the site, but have yet got any response.
 I didnt get any tracking number or any order confirmation by email..
  
 and while we are at it, which one earphone would you recommend for vocal music?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I've been listening to the:: Blue Ever Blue (BeB) - 328R the last few days. REALLY like it. It is much smoother and relaxed than the DIY PK3 Mod.

Kinda reminds me of an earbud version of my HD650. 

The 328R is a great overall earbud. It is the kind you can listen to for hours with little to no fatigue.
Highs are rolled off just a tad early, but that is what gives it the smooth, relaxed sound signature.
Bass is impressive for an earbud, goes down more than I thought it could without bleading into the mids.
Mids themself just every so slightly recessed. Vocals could be just a little more forward. 

I do not think it is "better" or "worse" than my DIY PK3 Mod, but it is just a different listening option. 

I think they are quite amazing for the $20 I spent on them.


(Please forgive the crappy cellphone picture).







..


----------



## bonglee23

Absolutely agree. I have had the BeB for over 2 years now, listening to then every now and then. Always pleasantly surprised by the great sound they deliver.


----------



## kanonathena

Deleted, posted to the wrong thread.


----------



## BenF

BE5 is on sale for 88$ + 7$ shipping!
http://bloxearphone.com/purchase.htm


----------



## oopeteroo

anyone tried the Dasetn Mod M760, how is it compared to m2c or anv3?


----------



## BenF

oopeteroo said:


> anyone tried the Dasetn Mod M760, how is it compared to m2c or anv3?


 
 Greatly superior to both, but quality may vary from earbud to earbud.
  
 Paypal seems to be broken on their website, and the quantities they offer are too high for DIY - I'm not 100% sure Dasetn is really behind dasetn.com.


----------



## The Dan of Steel

I have placed an order in dasetn website. I had some issue with the PayPal transaction but he has assured me that the order went through. I'm awaiting receipt at this time.


----------



## BenF

the dan of steel said:


> I have placed an order in dasetn website. I had some issue with the PayPal transaction but he has assured me that the order went through. I'm awaiting receipt at this time.


 

 You didn't get this?


----------



## The Dan of Steel

benf said:


> You didn't get this?


 
 I did see that at first but when I did it again the order went through.
  
 Did you create an account on the site? I think once I did that I was able to place the order. I never received an invoice or anything so I was nervous but I contacted him on here. Language barrier caused an issue but we got it squared away. Turns out the buds are in Orlando as of today and should be here tomorrow.


----------



## BenF

the dan of steel said:


> I did see that at first but when I did it again the order went through.
> 
> Did you create an account on the site? I think once I did that I was able to place the order. I never received an invoice or anything so I was nervous but I contacted him on here. Language barrier caused an issue but we got it squared away. Turns out the buds are in Orlando as of today and should be here tomorrow.


 

 Their website makes a bit uneasy.

 I left a message in their contact form - no reaction.
 The real Dasetn stopped answering my emails weeks ago.
 His eBay store has nothing new listed since last June - people don't walk away from 6437 feedback so easily.
 Paypal shows an error message, yet the website takes your Paypal login info - *big red flag*.
 Richard Ray, who is registered as Dasetn.com MOT here, obviously is not really called Richard Ray - English is clearly not his mother tongue.
  
 Maybe all this is just a coincidence, and both website and Richard are legit, but it just looks very suspicious.
 If Paypal worked fine, I'd buy every single IEM and earbud they are selling, as their M760 is fantastic!


----------



## Danneq

I sent Dasetn a message on Ebay about 2 weeks ago, wondering if I could buy a pair of M760. He sent me this reply:


> hi，you can go to my website , dasetn (dog) com , new item ie8 sound mod ..thank you


 
  
 I've given it a shot and ordered 3 pairs of earbuds (M760, M3 & M1). I only had good experiences when dealing with Dasetn on Ebay, and when I sent him a message about his earbuds in January he replied and wondered if I wanted to become a reseller in Sweden. I replied that I'm just a user who likes his earbuds. He replied:


> Respect of customer, very glad you can tell me all this! Next year I plan to set up web site, will launch more products. Ebay charge high fees, if you like my headphones, we can paypal deal. I can be a musician, I plan to carry out research and development of a team to headphones.


 
  
 I think that his intentions are honest and I hope he's not getting in over his head with the new web site. If bad word of mouth starts spreading it would be bad for him.
  
 About the Blox BE5, it's typical that it's released and sold out in a 2 hour period when I'm away from the computer...


----------



## BenF

danneq said:


> I sent Dasetn a message on Ebay about 2 weeks ago, wondering if I could buy a pair of M760. He sent me this reply:
> 
> I've given it a shot and ordered 3 pairs of earbuds (M760, M3 & M1). I only had good experiences when dealing with Dasetn on Ebay, and when I sent him a message about his earbuds in January he replied and wondered if I wanted to become a reseller in Sweden. I replied that I'm just a user who likes his earbuds. He replied:
> 
> ...


 

 Well, if the website is really related to Dasetn, I guess it should be OK.
 Although the Paypal thing really bothers me...
  
 When did you purchase and how did you pay?


----------



## Danneq

I'm positive that it's the same seller that I bought stuff on Ebay from. This is the e-mail address of the seller from yesterday when I ordered the earbuds: dasetn360@gmail.com
 It's the same as when I bought from him on Ebay. His real name seems to be Lei Yuling. I've got the same name on the newest order and from when I bought from him on Ebay last year.
  
 I'm still taking a chance with this order. When I first bought my pair of MX1 last year it never arrived and I wrote that to him. He refunded the $16 and I placed a new order. This time he added $4 in shipping but since the earbuds arrived this time it was okay.

 I paid using Paypal and got the same error message as in the screen dump you posted. I decided to take a chance and could later confirm that it was the same old e-mail address that was the recepient.

 You could always order a cheaper earbud at first and after that arrives order a pair of M760...


----------



## BenF

danneq said:


> I'm positive that it's the same seller that I bought stuff on Ebay from. This is the e-mail address of the seller from yesterday when I ordered the earbuds: dasetn360@gmail.com
> It's the same as when I bought from him on Ebay. His real name seems to be Lei Yuling. I've got the same name on the newest order and from when I bought from him on Ebay last year.
> 
> I'm still taking a chance with this order. When I first bought my pair of MX1 last year it never arrived and I wrote that to him. He refunded the $16 and I placed a new order. This time he added $4 in shipping but since the earbuds arrived this time it was okay.
> ...


 

 I already have 2 pairs of M760.
 Did you have to register to use Paypal? Did you receive an email receipt from Paypal?


----------



## Danneq

Yep, I created a new account and after I had placed the order I received an e-mail receipt from Paypal with the correct information (as described above).


----------



## evilhippie

Thats reassuring to know that its likely safe to order from the web site.  I was interested in placing an order for the various buds he had up there, especially the mx760 variant.  I was a bit scared off however when I saw that paypal warning message, but I possibly think it could be more due to lazy site coding than an actual issue if the payment was actually sent and received.  Think I might go ahead and order myself a pair or two, having missed out on the BE5 this morning


----------



## BenF

danneq said:


> Yep, I created a new account and after I had placed the order I received an e-mail receipt from Paypal with the correct information (as described above).


 

 You really shouldn't have exposed his info, now Woo will take a contract out on him


----------



## Danneq

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *evilhippie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Thats reassuring to know that its likely safe to order from the web site. I was interested in placing an order for the various buds he had up there, especially the mx760 variant. I was a bit scared off however when I saw that paypal warning message, but I possibly think it could be more due to lazy site coding than an actual issue if the payment was actually sent and received. Think I might go ahead and order myself a pair or two, having missed out on the BE5 this morning


 
  

  
 You could always start with one pair, and when it arrives you can order more. I think that Dasetn is an ambitious amateur with good intentions. He'll have to remember to have good customer service so that he doesn't scare people away.
  
  
 Quote:


benf said:


> You really shouldn't have exposed his info, now Woo will take a contract out on him


 

 Well, Woo will just have to step up his game an release bigger batches of his earbuds!


----------



## mochill

I placed an order for the mx760 balanced mod as well from dasetn.com and received a message to create. An account and I did an tried again buying them using PayPal and it worked, but I'll see if the come in a week because I used EMS shipping


----------



## The Dan of Steel

mochill said:


> I placed an order for the mx760 balanced mod as well from dasetn.com and received a message to create. An account and I did an tried again buying them using PayPal and it worked, but I'll see if the come in a week because I used EMS shipping


 
 You're down here in FL too. I thought they might make it to me today since they were in Orlando at 6AM yesterday but no update as of today so probably en route to Tampa. I ordered on 3/11 so two weeks ago today with standard shipping.


----------



## mochill

Yes I'm in Florida ....will see how low it takes, haven't heard the sennhesier mx760 ever so I wouldn't know him it compares


----------



## fleasbaby

...when he says balanced...is this something you can take advantage of with a standard output on a DAP, or does it require a special amp/DAP output? 

The only DAP with a balanced 1/8th inch output is the Hifiman HM700...


----------



## BenF

fleasbaby said:


> ...when he says balanced...is this something you can take advantage of with a standard output on a DAP, or does it require a special amp/DAP output?
> 
> The only DAP with a balanced 1/8th inch output is the Hifiman HM700...


 

 It's "balanced" as in "balanced SQ", not the "balanced jack"


----------



## fleasbaby

Ah! I thought as much ...

I noticed everyone seems to be running for the M760...might have to give them a go next to my Blox M2C


----------



## Im2bz2p

Wow, such a great topic with a lot of useful information. Thanks for all the work that went into these comparisons ClieOS.
  
 ~ Im2bz2p


----------



## BenF

Here is another great topic:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/711844/dasetn-m760-m1-m3-ap8-earbuds-review-impressions-appreciation


----------



## laon

Anyone heard Astrotec Lyra?


----------



## fishu

Does anyone know where I can buy some Sennheiser MX581's? I used to have some but they broke and really liked the size. If not, anyone know some good earbuds around the same size?


----------



## BenF

fishu said:


> Does anyone know where I can buy some Sennheiser MX581's? I used to have some but they broke and really liked the size. If not, anyone know some good earbuds around the same size?


 

 335$:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1050M27940
 248$:
http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-Headphone-Intergrated-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B0034L53Z4
 41.66$:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sennheiser-Ergonomic-Earphones-Integrated-Control/dp/B0034L53Z4
  
 You can pay as much as you want


----------



## jant71

fishu said:


> Does anyone know where I can buy some Sennheiser MX581's? I used to have some but they broke and really liked the size. If not, anyone know some good earbuds around the same size?


 
 There is a new MX585...http://en-de.sennheiser.com/stereo-earphones-mx-585
  
 Probably have to get them at AmazonUK or a UK/EUR seller at this point though.


----------



## fishu

benf said:


> 335$:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1050M27940
> 248$:
> http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-Headphone-Intergrated-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B0034L53Z4
> ...


 
  


jant71 said:


> There is a new MX585...http://en-de.sennheiser.com/stereo-earphones-mx-585
> 
> Probably have to get them at AmazonUK or a UK/EUR seller at this point though.


 
  
  
 Thanks guys, but I ended  up buying the Blue Ever Blue 328R (the black) after reading how they were pretty comfortable and almost as good as the PK3. Hopefully they'll be a good fit.
  
 The guy I talked to while ordering also gave me a $5 discount after I said I heard about the buds on head-fi. So if anyone else wants to order from BeB you can get $5 off if you mention head-fi! The payment method on the site is being changed though, so you just have to email the address on their contact page and they can set up a paypal transaction and send you an invoice.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Did anyone get their orders from Dasetn dot com? Just wondering the quailty and if the site is legit.

Thanks.

..


----------



## The Dan of Steel

Head over to this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/711844/dasetn-m760-m1-m3-ap8-earbuds-review-impressions-appreciation
  
 There are a bunch of us discussing them over there. I did receive my order. It took about two weeks to arrive at my door. A week of which was just going an hour drive.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

the dan of steel said:


> Head over to this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/711844/dasetn-m760-m1-m3-ap8-earbuds-review-impressions-appreciation
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Thanks for the link. I think I will order a few pairs to try out. I LOVE my Dasetn PK3 DIY. I also have the Dasetn PK2 DIY and Dasetn AP8 which are ok.

..


----------



## watsaname

Hey, I was looking at some earbuds for a friend of mine. He says that he really likes the Apple Earpods, I was wondering if there was a sort of "direct upgrade" from them with a better build quality. He was looking to spending around ~80-90 USD on them, but going up a bit more isn't a problem.
  
 Thank you.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

watsaname said:


> Hey, I was looking at some earbuds for a friend of mine. He says that he really likes the Apple Earpods, I was wondering if there was a sort of "direct upgrade" from them with a better build quality. He was looking to spending around ~80-90 USD on them, but going up a bit more isn't a problem.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


I'd say just get the BEB 328RM (Has the in-line mic) and only $33: http://blueeverblue.com/product-black.html


----------



## goldenSHK

There's a bunch of new DIY earbuds out in the market that people are thinking give Blox and Yuin a run for their money. I am skeptical so I'm wondering if ClieOS would be down to do some reviews of these earbuds and put them up on the list since this list is way overdue for some updates? I am mainly talking about the Dasetn 760, Dasetn M1, and Tingo Croons TG38S. These seem be the best general consensus in the budget earbud thread that's very active currently.


----------



## fleasbaby

I second that request...would be good to see if the list needs updating.


----------



## ClieOS

I'll see what I can do.


----------



## fleasbaby

Thanks ClieOS! I know its a labor of love, so anything you do is much appreciated!


----------



## goldenSHK

clieos said:


> I'll see what I can do.


 
 You're great, thank you. It's because we trust your word so much that we are making the request. Let us know if you can't find any of the earbuds online.


----------



## ClieOS

Not that I can't find them, just that I spent too much money last few months so I am trying to better balance my budget


----------



## goldenSHK

clieos said:


> Not that I can't find them, just that I spent too much money last few months so I am trying to better balance my budget


 
 Ya totally understandable. At least they are mostly very cheap and aren't each as expensive as Blox models. HAH! 
  
 Perhaps the member Richard Ray (from Dasetn) can get you a review sample of 2-3 of them? I can't see why not since it probably costs them a fraction of the actual price of one. Since you are pretty much the de defacto earbud guru I'd say they'd have a lot to gain by sending you their 2-3 most popular models (I'm guessing the M760, M1, and TG38S?).


----------



## willy156

whats a good upgrade from the yuin pk3 with a budget of $60?


----------



## golov17

Scullcandy Fix and Iriver IDP1000 cheap and much better and more natural sound than the line Dasetn


----------



## fnkcow

Could anyone who owned or tried any of these comment on how comfortable they are for side-sleeping: Yuin OK1, PK1, Sennheiser MX985, Blox BE3?


----------



## golov17

YuinPK1.


----------



## kanonathena

PK1 would be the most suitable for side-sleeping of the bunch. SWD2 also use the same shell as PK1. But I wholeheartedly recommend Hifiman's new ES100 earbuds, they are very comfortable too and sound quality is very very good.


----------



## golov17

Tell us a little about the sound ES100, I think many here would be interested.


----------



## fnkcow

kanonathena said:


> PK1 would be the most suitable for side-sleeping of the bunch. SWD2 also use the same shell as PK1. But I wholeheartedly recommend Hifiman's new ES100 earbuds, they are very comfortable too and sound quality is very very good.


 
 ES100 and Blox BE3 both use 15mm dynamic driver. ES100 is comfortable for side-sleeping but BE3 is not? Wonder how different their designs are


----------



## kanonathena

golov17 said:


> Tell us a little about the sound ES100, I think many here would be interested.


 
  
 I think it's safe to say that in terms of pure sound quality ES100 is the best I have tried so far. It sort of resembles the sound of an IEM, very detailed and refined with terrific bass response and an intimate presentation. The Blox BE7 I have has a more open and airy soundstage (although I have yet to fully burn in ES100 to see), a more of headphone like feeling but it is not quite as good in the fineness of sound. ES100 is indeed something very special in the earbuds crowd.
  


fnkcow said:


> ES100 and Blox BE3 both use 15mm dynamic driver. ES100 is comfortable for side-sleeping but BE3 is not? Wonder how different their designs are


 
  
 They use different housing, BE3 use the old MX500 housing which is quite thick. ES100 is very flat.


----------



## fnkcow

kanonathena said:


> ES100 is the best earbuds I have tried so far, it is super refined, the detail level and bass performance resemble that of an IEM. Same with its presentation, it is very intimate. I have not fully burnt these in yet so don't want to say much about its soundstage.
> 
> 
> They use different housing, BE3 use the old MX500 housing which is quite thick. ES100 is very flat.


 
 thanks for the explanation!


----------



## kjk1281

How comfortable an earbud is during sleep is also dependent on ear anatomy. My ears stick out a bit and face forward, so MX500s and similar style earbuds aren't really an issue for me. Of course, if an earbud isn't comfortable in the ear during normal use, then they won't be while lying down, either.


----------



## golov17

These, too, are comfortable
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





[/IMG]


----------



## golov17




----------



## fnkcow

golov17 said:


> These, too, are comfortable[attach]1215565[/attach][/quote]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## golov17

Iriver IDP1000,Skullcandy FIX Bud.


----------



## fnkcow

Thanks mate


----------



## golov17

I want to share with you. Today I received in ear headphones Sony MDR E808. Loved the sound and comfort. I recommend!


----------



## JK1

There doesn't seem to be much interest here in ear buds with ear hooks, however traditional earbuds without hooks fall out of the ears much too often when one is active. When I have a choice I prefer to use IEMs as I do want at least partial isolation, and better bass. When I don't have a choice though, and need to hear my surroundings for safety reasons, I choose open earphones that have ear hooks, and keep the volume low. I haven't bought any traditional earbuds without ear hooks in a very long time. When using these open earphones with ear hooks, I boost the bass on my player by around 8 db to help compensate for the lack of bass. It helps, however it isn't perfect.


----------



## golov17

I no IEM man, only earbuds.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> I want to share with you. Today I received in ear headphones Sony MDR E808. Loved the sound and comfort. I recommend!




Where did you get them? Are they white colored? They look yellow in the picture. They look like old Walkman Earbuds, not the Sony MDR E808. ???

..


----------



## golov17

They are pure white. This picture with the flash in the dark. Bought on Ebay, last. they J cable, asymmetrical. 16 Ohm. Build quality is good.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> They are pure white. This picture with the flash in the dark. Bought on Ebay, last. they J cable, asymmetrical. 16 Ohm. Build quality is good.



 


The earbuds you bought looks JUST like the ones you get with the Sony Walkman CD Player









The Sony MDR E808 looks like this:






..


----------



## ben7337

kanonathena said:


> I think it's safe to say that in terms of pure sound quality ES100 is the best I have tried so far. It sort of resembles the sound of an IEM, very detailed and refined with terrific bass response and an intimate presentation. The Blox BE7 I have has a more open and airy soundstage (although I have yet to fully burn in ES100 to see), a more of headphone like feeling but it is not quite as good in the fineness of sound. ES100 is indeed something very special in the earbuds crowd.
> 
> 
> They use different housing, BE3 use the old MX500 housing which is quite thick. ES100 is very flat.


 
 So the BE3 should sound a lot like the ES100 since they use the same drivers, just different housings?
  
 I ask because I have a Yuin OK3 and used to have the PK3's before that. I love my OK3's, but want a pair to regularly bring to work and a pair for home, and looking for something as good or better, but possibly cheaper. The ES100's sound like they may be better, if not definitely, but are even more expensive, while the BE3's are much cheaper at $37 shipped.
  
 I should also note I bought the tingo tg-38s cheap things from aliexpress and was very disappointed, for $15 I guess I shouldn't be, but they sound somewhere between the $0.97 headphones I bought at walmart once to see how they were, and a cheap $10 pair of sony's. They definitely are not quality in sound or build and sound muddled when trying to play anything with bass. They also have their channels flipped from my Yuins. Not sure who screwed up there, but someone is flipping the audio channels.
  
 Anyway, if the BE3's would sound largely the same, I think I'd be willing to go with them, even if they have the same crappy housing as the tingo earbuds I got, though I do see appeal to the ES100's with a much more open looking casing which reminds me of the big hole in the ok3's that lends greatly to their sound quality.


----------



## kanonathena

ben7337 said:


> So the BE3 should sound a lot like the ES100 since they use the same drivers, just different housings?
> 
> I ask because I have a Yuin OK3 and used to have the PK3's before that. I love my OK3's, but want a pair to regularly bring to work and a pair for home, and looking for something as good or better, but possibly cheaper. The ES100's sound like they may be better, if not definitely, but are even more expensive, while the BE3's are much cheaper at $37 shipped.
> 
> ...


 
  
 BE3 and ES100 use different drivers, ES100's driver is developed by Hifiman specifically for ES100 while Blox has their own driver for BE3.
  
 I haven't tried BE3, but based on my experience with BE7 which I rightfully believe is better than BE3, ES100 is definitely better than BE3. Based on my experience with M2C which offer similar performance to BE3 as I heard, BE3 would in turn be big step from OK3.


----------



## bonfirehay

kanonathena said:


> BE3 and ES100 use different drivers, ES100's driver is developed by Hifiman specifically for ES100 while Blox has their own driver for BE3.
> 
> I haven't tried BE3, but based on my experience with BE7 which I rightfully believe is better than BE3, ES100 is definitely better than BE3. Based on my experience with M2C which offer similar performance to BE3 as I heard, BE3 would in turn be big step from OK3.



 


Why do you rightfully believe BE7 > BE3 if you never listened to BE3?


----------



## kanonathena

bonfirehay said:


> kanonathena said:
> 
> 
> > BE3 and ES100 use different drivers, ES100's driver is developed by Hifiman specifically for ES100 while Blox has their own driver for BE3.
> ...


 
  
 I think that's how Blox number their earbud models.
  
 Blox has suggested somewhere that BE3 is equivalent or better than M2C and to me BE7 is certainly a big step up from M2C. I also found BE7 to be better than BE5. So it appears to me that Blox number their models based on their performance.


----------



## bonfirehay

Sure, but just because they say it, doesn't mean it is. That's just the way they price and market their products 
Audio performance is hard evaluate subjectively and even harder to measure objectively..
I mean, the materials are mostly the same, the techniques are mostly the same and the cost of production is probably mostly the same.
It is quite possible that in a blind test the appreciation of their line of headphones ends up *not* being BE7 > BE5 > BE3 > M2C for many people.

All this just to say it is not good for the consumer to presume blindly BE7 > BE5 > BE3 > M2C. It's probably a good idea to be skeptical and try it for yourself.


----------



## ben7337

kanonathena said:


> BE3 and ES100 use different drivers, ES100's driver is developed by Hifiman specifically for ES100 while Blox has their own driver for BE3.
> 
> I haven't tried BE3, but based on my experience with BE7 which I rightfully believe is better than BE3, ES100 is definitely better than BE3. Based on my experience with M2C which offer similar performance to BE3 as I heard, BE3 would in turn be big step from OK3.


 
  
 By big step, I'm guessing you mean big step down in terms of quality? Do the Baldoor E100's fall on anyone's radar? They also seem pretty popular, but it looks like they have volume controls built into the cable, and I can't really tell if they are necessarily good as well, or also just hyped by fake voters and people who don't know any better.


----------



## kanonathena

ben7337 said:


> By big step, I'm guessing you mean big step down in terms of quality? Do the Baldoor E100's fall on anyone's radar? They also seem pretty popular, but it looks like they have volume controls built into the cable, and I can't really tell if they are necessarily good as well, or also just hyped by fake voters and people who don't know any better.


 
  
 Sorry, I meant a big step up from OK3. OK3 is similar to PK2, both below OK2's level, M2C is a big step up from OK2. Nowadays the price of good earbuds have come down so much that it's best not to judge their performance by their price if they are not from the same company.


----------



## Soused

Anybody tried the Sennheiser OMX185 buds? I picked up a pair yesterday and with the foams on they sound really nice to my ears.
  
 Also, how much of an upgrade would it be from these to the OMX980 do you think?


----------



## Sparky191

Have you any experience with any other "better" earbuds. It kinda depends on what you are used to, and what you like, and what you will be using it with.


----------



## Soused

sparky191 said:


> Have you any experience with any other "better" earbuds. It kinda depends on what you are used to, and what you like, and what you will be using it with.


 
  
 Not really. I've had a long history with IEMs, and only recently got back to using earbuds again.   I've tried the Sennheiser MX375s and really liked them, but the fit of the OMX185 is better, with the behind-ear loops.
  
 The thing that astounds me is that people (myself more than included) spend so much time and money on IEMs, when a simple pair of cheapish earbuds sound so much better. Seriously, IEMs are crippled sonically next to earbuds - at least thats the way my ears now see it.
  
 So any advice you can offer on where - if anywhere - I might look to go from the OMX185s would be much appreciated.
  
 If it helps, I'm listening via a HTC One M8, no extra amp.


----------



## kjk1281

I'm not sure if this is completely helpful since I own the MX985 and MX375 and not the earhook variants, but here's my take on the differences: 

In terms of sound, the MX985 is much full-bodied and rich with deeper bass and more extended treble. The MX375 doesn't have the same amount of detail (in terms of articulation or texture), but does seem a bit more airy with a larger soundstage.

Ergonomically, the MX375 housing seems to fit my ear better, while the MX985's housing is a bit on the thick side. I'm thinking the earhook of the OMX980 might help a bit there, but I would recommend trying them out first if possible.

The build would certainly be better on the OMX980 as opposed to MX375/OMX185, but that goes without saying.


----------



## Soused

kjk1281 said:


> I'm not sure if this is completely helpful since I own the MX985 and MX375 and not the earhook variants, but here's my take on the differences:
> 
> In terms of sound, the MX985 is much full-bodied and rich with deeper bass and more extended treble. The MX375 doesn't have the same amount of detail (in terms of articulation or texture), but does seem a bit more airy with a larger soundstage.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the reply.  I've done and AB between my MX375 and OMX185 and I prefer the latter - nicer depth of sound and balance, and just more immersive all round.
  
 I'd love to try out the OMX980 or MX980/985 but sadly I don't know anyway to do that without buying them, and I don't have the funds to take such a punt really. Oh well, maybe one day....


----------



## Soused

OK, so I've found a place here in UK which sells the OMX980 for only £75.00, and I bought them on a hunch.

They arrived about an hour ago.

First up, the packaging is just beautiful - a real class act. And as someone else pointed out elsewhere, it takes bloody ages to get into the thing!  A lovely treat for those who get their kicks unboxing their gifts....

That sheer class extends to the OMX980s themselves.  I love the quality of these things - they exude love and attention to detail.  How about that adjustable silver jack? There's a very cool art deco aesthetic going on with the design of these, I feel

The acid test, of course, comes when you put them on the old ear holes.  Bingo! With the foams placed on (according to the - again, classy - manual, the foams are recommended for optimum sound), the buds fit secure as anything into my ears, and the ear hooks hinge behind my ears with ease.  Can hardly feel the things once they're on - and crucially, if I move my head, there's absolutely zero movement from the buds. Excellent - definitely the best fit I've ever had from an earbud,

So, how do they sound? Plugged straight into my HTC One M8, I hit play on a few test tracks. 

Woah! Are these full size headphones?  Seriously, these sound better than any IEM I've tried over the years, even those costing 5 times the amount. And while I'm not into headphones themselves, I've tested a fair few before. While it's very early days, I can tell right out the box the OMX980s will become a new drug for me.

Clarity is just wonderful, really transparent.  Bass is unbelievable for an earbud, really present and correct but totally balanced with the rest of the spectrum.  Mids are just where they need to be too.  Soundstage is full of depth and separation, with a beautiful sense of space and the 'room' the music is taking place in.  That's why I think the rise and rise of IEMs is a bit depressing - I've never had this openness and airiness from an IEM before.

Everything just seems 'right' about these things. The honeymoon flush of a new toy? Hmm, I hope not! But let's see. Certainly, straight from the box - well, not even the box, the padded envelope really - the OMX980s have got me excited to go through all my music again.


Good stuff. Thanks to all of you who have pointed the way and continued to shine that light in the growing darkness.


----------



## golov17

Congrats! I have the MX980, and it's really excellent headphones.


----------



## kjk1281

soused said:


> OK, so I've found a place here in UK which sells the OMX980 for only £75.00, and I bought them on a hunch.
> 
> They arrived about an hour ago.
> 
> ...




I'm glad the OMX980 worked out for you! I knew you'd love the sound but wasn't sure about the fit since everybody's ears are different. Happy listening!


----------



## Soused

kjk1281 said:


> I'm glad the OMX980 worked out for you! I knew you'd love the sound but wasn't sure about the fit since everybody's ears are different. Happy listening!




Thanks. I seem to have pretty standard size ears, based on experience with IEMs. But I was a little nervous reading all the reports of poor fit with the MX980s. I can see how they might not be snug for smaller ears. But the OMX980 have the flexible ear hooks which really do help keep the buds secure and unmoveable, so perhaps Sennheiser produced them in response to criticism? Either way, I am really loving the fact that I don't have to fiddle around with different tips or the fit with these - just plug and play, pretty much. 

For only £75 these offer ridiculously beautiful build and sound quality. I am, as we say here, dead chuffed.


----------



## SLO7_MACHIN3

which are the best <50$ earphones that can be bought in Canada right now?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

slo7_machin3 said:


> which are the best <50$ earphones that can be bought in Canada right now?


 
 I would guess the Yuin PK3?  
  
 http://www.amazon.ca/YUIN-Yuin-PK3-Earbuds/dp/B002OGEP2M/
  
 ..


----------



## SLO7_MACHIN3

I was going to buy just that, but because i didn't know if they would fit i bought the dasetn pk3 a month ago but they haven't yet arrived


----------



## Wokei

Massdrop for Yuin PK3 for 30$ now


----------



## golov17

It is better to buy a Pioneer SE-CE521-K, excellent headphones.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

wokei said:


> Massdrop for Yuin PK3 for 30$ now


 
 I think that is the J cord one though...  Most prefer the Y cord...  but maybe it is not a big deal to some.
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

[/IMG]All have a different sound. Ivery winner among them, IMHO.


----------



## Toom

golov17 said:


> It is better to buy a Pioneer SE-CE521-K, excellent headphones.




Thanks for the recommendation. I have had these Pioneer earbuds for a week now and they have blown me away. Unbelieveably good sound for only £10.


----------



## golov17

I want to give a new recommendation, VE MONK $ 10, will be available soon on AliExpress. Although I have a pre-release version from the manufacturer, they are amazing for a low price, 32 ohm


----------



## BloodyPenguin

toom said:


> Thanks for the recommendation. I have had these Pioneer earbuds for a week now and the Pioneer SE-CE521-K have blown me away. Unbelieveably good sound for only £10.


 
  
  
  


golov17 said:


> I want to give a new recommendation, VE MONK $ 10, will be available soon on AliExpress. Although I have a pre-release version from the manufacturer, they are amazing for a low price, 32 ohm


 
  
  
 Great, have to buy both of these now.   Thank goodness they are both not too pricey though.
  
 ..


----------



## fleasbaby

Just doing some light thread-crapping...if you're in the US and interested in trying the new VE Zen and Asura earbuds, join the tour!

http://www.head-fi.org/t/760065/ve-zen-and-asura-usa-tour#post_11497331


----------



## emusic13

Anyone have any reviews on the Astrotec Lyra? There's only one that I've seen.


----------



## Toom

toom said:


> Thanks for the recommendation. I have had these Pioneer earbuds for a week now and they have blown me away. Unbelieveably good sound for only £10.


 
  
 Just wanted to share a tip for those who have these excellent buds.
  
 I've discovered that when using foam covers, if I stretch the foams back to fit across the top of the stem of the bud (to cover the last few letters of the Pioneer sign), it really seems to improve the sound quality.  
  
 Beautiful value for a tenner, these things.


----------



## ULUL

Hope this is OK to post. Read the first few pages and last couple and realize that I currently can't quite read the entire 47 page thread. Currently using the KLIPSCH X1 iem with dragonfly DAC/amp for on the road travel. 

For my ministry trips, I often make it to China. If I want to purchase the best performing earbud (not iEM), what model should I look for where I can also take advantage of getting a better value while in China? I love a large soundstage (though not fuzzy wide like the AKG 701 series but more like the Senn HD800), solid bass extension and quantity though not bloated where it leaks into the mids and mudy it up, fast transients, and a bit of warmth - meaning not sterile studio monitor accurate. Hope this helps. 

Currently with IEM, I really miss a wider soundstage of open headphones but traveling often,just can't haul a full sized HP. 

Thanks!

ULUL


----------



## golov17

http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20150413060436&SearchText=ivery+is-8


----------



## golov17

Headset for Android & Iphone Ivery IS-8, good headphones at a low cost. Recommend.


----------



## golov17

ulul said:


> Hope this is OK to post. Read the first few pages and last couple and realize that I currently can't quite read the entire 47 page thread. Currently using the KLIPSCH X1 iem with dragonfly DAC/amp for on the road travel.
> 
> For my ministry trips, I often make it to China. If I want to purchase the best performing earbud (not iEM), what model should I look for where I can also take advantage of getting a better value while in China? I love a large soundstage (though not fuzzy wide like the AKG 701 series but more like the Senn HD800), solid bass extension and quantity though not bloated where it leaks into the mids and mudy it up, fast transients, and a bit of warmth - meaning not sterile studio monitor accurate. Hope this helps.
> 
> ...



VE ZEN 320 Ohm


----------



## god-bluff

Just got a pair of *Atomic Floyd Airjax Titanium 2*s for less than 1/3 of their original price to try to sell on. as usual I couldn't resist giving them a try & much to my suprise will be keeping them. I dont know whether they can be classed as a pure earbud or more of a hybrid. Theyre an earbud for me anyway, with earhooks.
  
 This models been around for about 6 years and the lack of coverage is probably because they are dismissed as a beats like fashion brand and they are pricey. Also some of Atomic Floyds in ear phones are not really that good. 
  
 I am a long term earbud user my first serious one was the MX760 which was a revelation. The soundstage put any iem and most full size Id tried to shame. I then moved (in theory) up with MX880s and 980s. Currently have MX760 & K319 among others. I sold the MX980s because I finally found an iem that easily matched it in every way(almost on the treble) whilst being more comfortable and noise isolating; the Musical Fidelity EB50. Just never wore them.
  
 Anyway these Airjax sound absolutely wonderful to me, better from memory, and using the EB50 as a guide, than the MX980.The exception would be the highs of the 980 which were the best of anything I've heard with their extension and smoothness.  Im not the best at describing sound but they have the usual vast and open soundstage of a good earbud,very clear  with the right amount of bass. Just a lovely neutral to warmish perfectly balanced sound. Like the first time I heard the 760 I find it mind blowing that a tiny earphone can pull off the trick of sounding like a full size open headphone, 
  
 The only sticking point with Airjax, apart from the normally crazy price, is the awkward fit. Initially they feel like some kind of  torture device with the pins formed from the bottom of the earhooks threatening to draw blood from the ear lobe. Okay if your'e into piercing I suppose. However spend some time adjusting them and they can be very comfy and secure. Its just a bit of a fiddle really.
  
 The materials used and the build quality are great and although they look a bit flash are fairly low key when they're worn. I was always a bit embarrassed wearing the over styled MX980.
  
 If you love earbuds, can find them at a decent price and don't have a fear of needles then they are certainly worth a try.
  
 PS. Apologies if you found this post drawn out & boring. As everyone seems to tell me, I do witter on a bit !


----------



## golov17

Who has Blox be7mk1 & mk2? It is worth to buy a mk2? The difference in the sound, any experience, please,and compare with be5


----------



## golov17

http://review-hub.com/atomic-floyd-airjax-review/


----------



## god-bluff

golov17 said:


> http://review-hub.com/atomic-floyd-airjax-review/


 
 Thats the one although mine are the non-remote version. Although the review looses much credibility when it talks of rich, deep (correct) thumping (incorrect) bass. They are definately not bass heavy headphones, just beautifully balanced ones which probably sound better for classical music than hip hop. There's a lack of professional reviews for these possibly because they weren't taken seriously or were perceived to be over priced ? The daft thing is the sound probably is worthy of the asking price in today's market of ridiculously overpriced and often mediocre sounding style/fashion headphones and the £1000 earphone. Seven years ago and at £130 things were different.


----------



## golov17

Reasonable comments. It is very expensive to pay for the appearance. I prefer the sound against the beautiful view. How Blox


----------



## Ruben123

Dont know if my question could be fully answered here P) but Id like to know how Mrice/Baldoor E100 compare to:
  
 - Monoprice 8320
 - KZ ANV
 - Soundsoul S018
 - Havi B3P1
 - name it???
  
 Im from Europe so both Soundsoul and Mrice are hard to get THOUGH I found the E100s on ALIEX for $19. I do have MP8320 and Havi B3p1.
 If Mrices are equal enough to Havis I might sell them.


----------



## Toom

ruben123 said:


> Dont know if my question could be fully answered here P) but Id like to know how Mrice/Baldoor E100 compare to:
> 
> - Monoprice 8320
> - KZ ANV
> ...


 
  
 This site appear to ship all over Europe
  
 http://www.lightinthebox.com/mrice-e100-earbell-shape-earbud-in-ear-stereo-earphone-for-android-mobile-phone_p1503635.html


----------



## Ruben123

Great find!!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

ruben123 said:


> Great find!!


 
 Not sure where you are located, but they also sell them on Amazon:  http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=E100+earphones
  
 ..


----------



## Ruben123

Unfortunately their shipping costs are $25 to get them here...
Anyone knows how they compare though ?


----------



## golov17

ruben123 said:


> Unfortunately their shipping costs are $25 to get them here...
> Anyone knows how they compare though ?


http://www.lightinthebox.com/mrice-e100-earbell-shape-earbud-in-ear-stereo-earphone-for-android-mobile-phone_p1503635.html


----------



## Ruben123

Thanks a lot man. Only want to know how they compare to what I have


----------



## golov17

http://ru.aliexpress.com/item/Boxed-Original-Syun-SAP1-14-8mm-Large-Dynamic-Single-Moving-Coil-Super-Bass-Professional-Hifi-DJ/2052459917.html?recommendVersion=1
Some thing new..


----------



## golov17

http://m.aliexpress.com/item/1797590616.html?spm=0.0.0.0.qm0duO
Aurvana Air, B&O A8
http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32263845686.html?spm=0.0.0.0.pCd6WG


----------



## god-bluff

golov17 said:


> http://m.aliexpress.com/item/1797590616.html?spm=0.0.0.0.qm0duO
> Aurvana Air, B&O A8
> http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32263845686.html?spm=0.0.0.0.pCd6WG




Those A8s will be fake. I think you should be more careful


----------



## golov17

I also thought about it..


----------



## golov17

Good SQ  
http://ru.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-Brand-Original-New-Edifier-H185-earbud-stereo-music-headphones-fashionable-sport-headphone/32242440516.html?recommendVersion=1


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> Good SQ
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I've heard some people like these better than the H180.  It seems both are very decent for their price.  I have yet to try either one yet.
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

✌


----------



## god-bluff

golov17 said:


> Good SQ
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well at least they don't look anything like my old MX400s this time


----------



## ClieOS

Just a 'slight' update after 1.5yrs.


----------



## emusic13

*湖西小筑 DIY Dual Driver: Where would I be able to order these? And wow, seems like a lot of the top listed earbuds are pretty cheap now.*


----------



## Ruben123

So the Baldoor is the cheapest of the ''The Great'' list... it seems? Didnt check all of them though. I feel I need to get them although I dont need them at all lol


----------



## kjk1281

Thanks for the awesome update! Good to see the Pioneer SE-CE521 getting the recognition I feel it deserves. Just wish they would sell them here in the US.



ruben123 said:


> So the Baldoor is the cheapest of the ''The Great'' list... it seems? Didnt check all of them though. I feel I need to get them although I dont need them at all lol




In Japan, the Pioneers may be cheaper at around ¥1050 (~$8.85 US) shipped.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

kjk1281 said:


> Thanks for the awesome update! Good to see the Pioneer SE-CE521 getting the recognition I feel it deserves. Just wish they would sell them here in the US.
> In Japan, the Pioneers may be cheaper at around ¥1050 (~$8.85 US) shipped.


 
 Yeah, they are about double that on eBay in the US.  Lowest ones run about $20:  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=Pioneer+SE-CE521&_sop=15
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

I do not recommend Edifier h190, also Jiushao E600. They are not worth the money. IMHO.


----------



## ClieOS

emusic13 said:


> *湖西小筑 DIY Dual Driver: Where would I be able to order these? And wow, seems like a lot of the top listed earbuds are pretty cheap now.*


 
  
 Only one place: Taobao. More specifically here: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.1-c.w4004-1246925537.8.Kh8xIN&id=37119460429
  


ruben123 said:


> So the Baldoor is the cheapest of the ''The Great'' list... it seems? Didnt check all of them though. I feel I need to get them although I dont need them at all lol


 
  
 Quite a few are under $20 actually, provided you ordered them from Taobao directly from the manufacturer and not from reseller on places like Aliexpress.
  
 This is of course a reflection of how good cheap earbuds has became.
  


golov17 said:


> I do not recommend Edifier h190, also Jiushao E600. They are not worth the money. IMHO.


 
  
 Just want to mention the price has nothing to do with the earbuds ranking in the list, and of course we all have different opinion about what each should worth.
  
 I do however have an Edifier H190 (as well as H185 and H180 nonetheless) coming in that cost me about $17, so we will see how it fairs. JiuShao E600 is about $11 from the manufacturer directly, and I don't consider that a bad deal at all.


----------



## golov17

Well, yes, you're right, I mean the price AliExpress. In advertising sellers on AliExpress, says that it Jiushao E600, it's E300 +. But they have nothing to do in the signature sound, so the winner of the E300, albeit at a lower price. IMHO.


----------



## tukangketik

clieos said:


> Only one place: Taobao. More specifically here: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.1-c.w4004-1246925537.8.Kh8xIN&id=37119460429




If I want to buy, which one of the option I should make, ClieOS. As I see there are different cables and jack option on the earbud? Thanks.


----------



## Toom

Thanks for the update ClieOS. 

Couldn't agree more with your description of the Earbell E100 - its an amazingly addictive sounding earbud and for its price just mindblowingly awesome value. The Pioneers are also superb value, albeit very much in the sonic shadow of the mighty Earbell. 

To be honest, having owned the Senn Omx980 too, I would put the E100s way above those based purely on sound quality. When you factor in price as well, it becomes ridiculous.


----------



## ClieOS

tukangketik said:


> If I want to buy, which one of the option I should make, ClieOS. As I see there are different cables and jack option on the earbud? Thanks.


 
 Given the price, I think you should just buy the most expensive one. The one I have is a special version that based on another cable in very limited quantity. They seems to have ran out of that cable already.


----------



## gandroider

Great update Clieos, but I see no Blox BE series (eg. BE3 or BE7)... LOL


----------



## golov17

tukangketik said:


> If I want to buy, which one of the option I should make, ClieOS. As I see there are different cables and jack option on the earbud? Thanks.


Just ordered them through an intermediary Rayshoppinga.ru, for $ 40
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.1-c.w4004-1246925537.8.Kh8xIN&id=37119460429


----------



## ClieOS

gandroider said:


> Great update Clieos, but I see no Blox BE series (eg. BE3 or BE7)... LOL


 
 You can always send me one for review, I won't mind at all.


----------



## golov17

Does anyone describe their sound? MrZ Tomahawk http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=40405680265


----------



## tusharthegamer

i have tested mh750 from sony and they sound awesome.. from the OP's list i get very few earphones in india thats cheap.. Can you guys suggest me something similar to sony mh750 as original are very hard to find.


----------



## altrunox

OMG, this Earbell is just US$19?! 
 And it's on "The Great" category, really?!
 I'm getting one


----------



## cocopro

Kudos to ClieOS for updating this post with sub $50 high performance earbuds!


----------



## Toom

altrunox said:


> OMG, this Earbell is just US$19?!
> And it's on "The Great" category, really?!
> I'm getting one




Hopefully you will not be disappointed.


----------



## golov17

http://www.dasetn.com/products_new.html?productsort=5&zenid=c79c5ea982b85c9460aad459a144386c
New products of Dasetn.com


----------



## ClieOS

Maybe it is just me but I am not impressed with Dasetn's build quality. The MC5 falls apart even before I open its box up (which I have to glue it back but it is at least still functional) while the Mod M760 has channel imbalance so bad that I can only concluded that they didn't bother to QC their products (hence I never include it into the review). These are some of the worst DIY earphone I ever have, so_ no recommendation from me_.
  
 p/s: separating the top three into a category of their own, which I think they deserve as much.


----------



## golov17

I agree. But they have many followers, and here HeadFi, and other resources. Everyone can take a chance to check that personally.  Buyer's right to information.


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> I agree. But they have many followers, and here HeadFi, and other resources. Everyone can take a chance to check that personally.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Just as much right to be informed why it isn't recommended.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I will not but anymore Dasetn products. They have way to high of a failure rate. Over 50% I bought were broke either on arrival or within days.

Plus, one of my big orders from them did not even arrive. Then Dasetn did not reply to any of my emails. I had to get my money back through PayPal.

So, no more Dasetn for me.

..


----------



## zephex

Dasetn is kinda famous for bad qc, would recommend them to any despite the positive reviewa


----------



## golov17

ClieOS,西小筑DIY Dual Driver, can tell me more about them?


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> ClieOS,西小筑DIY Dual Driver, can tell me more about them?


 

 They claimed to use the same DDM driver that was used on PowerBeats. DDM isn't specific to PowerBeats but can be found on other dual driver dynamic IEM. I am pretty sure all of them come from the same Chinese OEM. Basically it is a way of fusing a 15mm bass and midrange driver and a 7mm driver treble driver together to form a single assembly.
  
 As for the cable options - they are basically silver plated copper wire for the more expensive one and pure copper wire for the cheaper one.


----------



## golov17

Thank You.


----------



## tusharthegamer

can someone suggest me a good earphone's under $50 .. i am very impressed by mh750 quality... someone plz suggest me earphones from sony sennheiser jbl soundmagic philips as these are the only one's available in india..


----------



## cocopro

golov17 said:


> I do not recommend Edifier h190, also Jiushao E600. They are not worth the money. IMHO.


 
 Have you try amping the Edifier h190s? It's pretty power hungry from what I've hear.


----------



## cocopro

clieos said:


> They claimed to use the same DDM driver that was used on PowerBeats. DDM isn't specific to PowerBeats but can be found on other dual driver dynamic IEM. I am pretty sure all of them come from the same Chinese OEM. Basically it is a way of fusing a 15mm bass and midrange driver and a 7mm driver treble driver together to form a single assembly.
> 
> As for the cable options - they are basically silver plated copper wire for the more expensive one and pure copper wire for the cheaper one.


 
 It's probably a good idea to try something like modified yurbuds enhancers for these buds, better seal should bring out more bass. 
 There isn't much to lose consider PowerBeats is more or less a completely sealed version.


----------



## ClieOS

cocopro said:


> It's probably a good idea to try something like modified yurbuds enhancers for these buds, better seal should bring out more bass.
> There isn't much to lose consider PowerBeats is more or less a completely sealed version.


 
  
 That will defeat my purpose of wearing an earbuds in the first place. That is, I don't want a tight seal. If I want a tight seal, I already have great IEMs that do that very well.


----------



## golov17

cocopro said:


> Have you try amping the Edifier h190s? It's pretty power hungry from what I've hear.


OK, I'll check.
Although, there is no, I already gave them to someone


----------



## god-bluff

Agree with that. The wonderful open sound of a really good earbud relies in them not being sealed. A bit like an open vs closed full size headphone but possibly more so. Very few if any iems can match the soundstaging and feeling of airiness and separation
  
 Back to *Atomic Floyd Airjax Titaniums*, if your in the UK these are selling for £49.99 on a certain large auction site at the moment, Not quite the TK Maxx deal but still an almighty bargain. As I said they are easily in the MX980 class in terms of sound. The name and to some extent the looks might indicate form over function or a bloated bassy mess (a la Beats) but not this time.


----------



## golov17

Where links? Found. http://review-hub.com/atomic-floyd-airjax-review/
http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/ears-on-with-the-atomic-floyd-airjax-earphones/


----------



## golov17

Mixed reviews ...
http://technabob.com/blog/2008/12/07/atomic-floyd-jax-titanium2-headphones-ears-on-review/


----------



## cocopro

clieos said:


> That will defeat my purpose of wearing an earbuds in the first place. That is, I don't want a tight seal. If I want a tight seal, I already have great IEMs that do that very well.


 
  
 I too prefer the open design, but others might appreciate more balanced sound with a semi-open design. 
 I've seen moded ES100 with jawbone era silicon tips that have a huge cutout in them to expose all the metal mesh, and the owner loves them=)
  
 Speaking of IEM, which ones have the best sound stage? I'm looking for something to replace my RE400s for a more out-of-head sound, thanks!


----------



## golov17

Spoiler


----------



## ClieOS

cocopro said:


> Speaking of IEM, which ones have the best sound stage? I'm looking for something to replace my RE400s for a more out-of-head sound, thanks!


 
  
 I won't say this is the best soundstage I ever heard of an IEM (as I never really rate IEM on soundstage alone and therefore don't keep track of it), but it is one of the best I have heard in recent time - Dunu Titan 1.


----------



## cocopro

clieos said:


> I won't say this is the best soundstage I ever heard of an IEM (as I never really rate IEM on soundstage alone and therefore don't keep track of it), but it is one of the best I have heard in recent time - Dunu Titan 1.


 
 Thanks a lot ClieOS, I will definitely check those out.


----------



## god-bluff

golov17 said:


> Mixed reviews ...
> http://technabob.com/blog/2008/12/07/atomic-floyd-jax-titanium2-headphones-ears-on-review


 
 As I said originally there aren't many professional reviews of these despite being on the market for 7 years. And I know people are unlikely to take my relatively inexperienced word for it when I say these are great. But worth a try if you get the chance
  
 From what I've read they are unlike the Atomic Floyds in ears which by all accounts are not great. By accident or design these are like listening to a very nicely balanced full size open phone while feeling (when correctly adjusted) nothing on or in your ears. Quite a trick..
  
 They sound very good with all my music namely classic progressive rock (including the Floyd of course !!) but are they are also particularly wonderful with classical and jazz as (very good) earbuds tend to be. 
  
 PS I don't do links to a particular seller but the deal is easy to find.


----------



## mochill

Isn't the Ve Zen 320ohm??


----------



## ClieOS

mochill said:


> Isn't the Ve Zen 320ohm??


 
  
 It is.


----------



## rymd

clieos said:


> They claimed to use the same DDM driver that was used on PowerBeats. DDM isn't specific to PowerBeats but can be found on other dual driver dynamic IEM. I am pretty sure all of them come from the same Chinese OEM. Basically it is a way of fusing a 15mm bass and midrange driver and a 7mm driver treble driver together to form a single assembly.


 
  
 Did a double take when I saw that same pic on their taobao as the one on the Radius DDM site. Do they sound similar to or as good as the Radius? It's still my go-to IEM after so many years and i'd love to have an earbud like that. But if you say it lacks bass extension/depth, i'm not too hopeful.
  
 and wow, surprised to see the TG-38s that low, even under the MC5. I guess I'm one of the few who actually like their sound lol


----------



## ClieOS

I don't compare SQ between IEM to earbuds. To me there is too much of an orange to apple to make sense. However, it is definitely quite different sounding from Radius DDM. Also TC100 is DDM based as well, if I am not mistaken, but also different sounding.


----------



## jant71

TC100, IIRC , is 16mm dual layered single diaphragm.
  
 I compare IEMs and earbuds are both cabled speakers that go in my ears, plug into the same devices and get played the same stuff through them. Apples to apples baby 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Bass, mids, treble, detail, etc. they both have them. Just isolation is not on the table.


----------



## fnkcow

+1 to Baldoor E100. Definitely worth the great category
 Still hoping to see how OK1 fares on the list


----------



## ClieOS

jant71 said:


> TC100, IIRC , is 16mm dual layered single diaphragm.
> 
> I compare IEMs and earbuds are both cabled speakers that go in my ears, plug into the same devices and get played the same stuff through them. Apples to apples baby
> 
> ...


 
  
 According to Tingo's spec, TC100 is based on ’co-axial dual driver', they also happen to sell DIY DDM driver as well.


----------



## cocopro

Anyone tried TC200? It's based on MX985 driver.


----------



## ClieOS

cocopro said:


> Anyone tried TC200? It's based on MX985 driver.


 
  
 Allegedly, and Tingo says it will limited to only 1000 pair. Kind of hard to believe they can get their hand of real MX985's driver though, but I am interested nonetheless.


----------



## cocopro

clieos said:


> Allegedly, and Tingo says it will limited to only 1000 pair. Kind of hard to believe they can get their hand of real MX985's driver though, but I am interested nonetheless.


 
 Exactly, the price is much higher than TC100 and killed my impulsive buying urge=)


----------



## golov17

Drivers MX980


Spoiler


----------



## god-bluff

golov17 said:


> Drivers MX980
> 
> 
> Spoiler




What on earth have you done there and why ?


----------



## golov17

I changed the cable to remove the iron control and bulky minijack


----------



## gandroider

golov17 said:


> I changed the cable to remove the iron control and bulky minijack


 
 Hi golov17,
  
 have you compared the MX985 and MX980? in terms of sound-quality... 
 I have been using MX980 until now, and considering to buy MX985.
  
 Thanks


----------



## hohohohi888

This may be a dumb question, but is there any difference between the e100 and e100a, the smartphone version?
  
 And more importantly, is the e100 worth getting?  It seems like the sound is dependent on a good fit, which is apparently hard to achieve.
  
 Owners of baldoor e100's, any thoughts?


----------



## golov17

gandroider said:


> Hi golov17,
> 
> have you compared the MX985 and MX980? in terms of sound-quality...
> I have been using MX980 until now, and considering to buy MX985.
> ...



As far as I know, they use the same driver.


----------



## ClieOS

hohohohi888 said:


> This may be a dumb question, but is there any difference between the e100 and e100a, the smartphone version?
> 
> And more importantly, is the e100 worth getting?  It seems like the sound is dependent on a good fit, which is apparently hard to achieve.
> 
> Owners of baldoor e100's, any thoughts?


 
  
 Don't really think there is any difference between the two version.
  
 Fit is not an problem on E100. It isn't a particularly tricky earbuds when it comes to fitting... and definitely worth the price. In fact, worth double the price, I'll say.


----------



## god-bluff

clieos said:


> Don't really think there is any difference between the two version.
> 
> Fit is not an problem on E100. It isn't a particularly tricky earbuds when it comes to fitting... and definitely worth the price. In fact, worth double the price, I'll say.


 
 Based on that you're saying they only have a £22 or  $28 sound so they cant be that great. Certainly no giant killer by sounds of it.
  
 I sometimes use cheap Philips SHE2105 earbuds with remote whilst I'm working with my mobile phone. Decent enough sounding for non critical 'background' listening, ultra light, comfortable, very rugged  and most of all cheap so don't care what happens to them. Was considering the Earbells as an alternative but maybe not a worthwhile improvement for that use ?


----------



## golov17

http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=4057
You can try these. Warm, comfortable sound with natural tone.


----------



## gandroider

Anybody know tme MSRP of 

DIY Powerbeats
Jiushao E600
Jiushao E300

Any link to purchase them?

Thanks


----------



## golov17

http://ru.aliexpress.com/item/JiuShao-E600-E300-Upgrade-Version-High-Fidelity-Quality-Professional-Stereo-Earbuds-Earphones/32264665274.html?recommendVersion=1
http://ru.aliexpress.com/item/JiuShao-E300-High-Fidelity-Quality-Professional-Stereo-Earbuds-Earphones/1510638150.html?recommendVersion=1
http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=37119460429
I bought them here


----------



## ClieOS

396629 said:


> Based on that you're saying they only have a £22 or  $28 sound so they cant be that great. Certainly no giant killer by sounds of it.
> 
> I sometimes use cheap Philips SHE2105 earbuds with remote whilst I'm working with my mobile phone. Decent enough sounding for non critical 'background' listening, ultra light, comfortable, very rugged  and most of all cheap so don't care what happens to them. Was considering the Earbells as an alternative but maybe not a worthwhile improvement for that use ?


 
  
 You certainly has a very imaginative mind that reads the literally content out from a figure of speech


----------



## god-bluff

clieos said:


> You certainly has a very imaginative mind that reads the literally content out from a figure of speech


 
 Well yes I took it literally. If you say something is worth twice its price it doesn't take a lot of imagination to work outs its value does it ? Especially such a low priced item. Twice as good as something that's not great probably still isn't great. 
  
 Now I'm quite confident, for example, when I say my DT150s are worth at least twice their value and that does mean something.
  
 £96 x 2 (current price) = £192. £192 wont get you anything better, different but not better IMO
  
 Do you get my logic now ?


----------



## kjk1281

396629 said:


> I sometimes use cheap Philips SHE2105 earbuds with remote whilst I'm working with my mobile phone. Decent enough sounding for non critical 'background' listening, ultra light, comfortable, very rugged  and most of all cheap so don't care what happens to them. Was considering the Earbells as an alternative but maybe not a worthwhile improvement for that use?




I have the SHE2105 and the E100 and I find the latter to be a noticeable improvement. I actually think the Earbells are better for background listening as they are more open and spacious and less mid-centric when compared to the Philips.


----------



## god-bluff

kjk1281 said:


> I have the SHE2105 and the E100 and I find the latter to be a noticeable improvement. I actually think the Earbells are better for background listening as they are more open and spacious and less mid-centric when compared to the Philips.


 
 Thanks I may well get a pair for what they cost then.


----------



## ClieOS

396629 said:


> Do you get my logic now ?


 
  
 No, I am not good with math.


----------



## god-bluff

Fair enough


----------



## Daijiro

clieos said:


> They claimed to use the same DDM driver that was used on PowerBeats. DDM isn't specific to PowerBeats but can be found on other dual driver dynamic IEM. I am pretty sure all of them come from the same Chinese OEM. Basically it is a way of fusing a 15mm bass and midrange driver and a 7mm driver treble driver together to form a single assembly.
> 
> As for the cable options - they are basically silver plated copper wire for the more expensive one and pure copper wire for the cheaper one.


may i have ur recommendation between this earbud vs e100/pk3? Whats their pros and cons? 
And, have u tried musa sp1?


----------



## ClieOS

daijiro said:


> may i have ur recommendation between this earbud vs e100/pk3? Whats their pros and cons?
> And, have u tried musa sp1?


 
  
 My recommendation is on thew first post. The only con about it is that the bass depth and texture isn't quite there, so it is only for those who value detail and soundstage much more than bass. E100 and PK3 are more for the mainstream listener.
  
 No, never actually heard of Musa SP1 before - a quick google seems to suggest it is an Indonesia brand...


----------



## golov17

Music bunch 


Spoiler


----------



## ClieOS

Have the Edifier H180 / H185 / and H190 with me right now, plus HIFIKIWI 'Honey Buzzard' H1 and 'Lyrebird' H1.
  
 All three Edifier actually sound quite decent to me, and H185 is definitely the highlight of them.
  
 HIFIKIWI on the other hand is a relatively new brand from China, made by a Chinese office supply company. The interesting bit isn't about these H1's sound quality, but they are more like the "reproduction" model of the discontinued AKG K314P and Sennheiser MX500. As the story goes, HIFIKIWI has partnered up with Foster (which I believe is the OEM for both models) to bring these earbuds back under a its own brand. Well, I never listened to a K314P before, but the Lyrebird H1 does sounds pretty close to a MX500.


----------



## golov17

HIFIKIWI 



Spoiler


----------



## ClieOS

clieos said:


> No, never actually heard of Musa SP1 before - a quick google seems to suggest it is an Indonesia brand...


 
  
 Correction - it is Chinese. Kind of an rare earbud even in China.


----------



## chompy

clieos said:


> Have the Edifier H180 / H185 / and H190 with me right now, plus HIFIKIWI 'Honey Buzzard' H1 and 'Lyrebird' H1.
> 
> All three Edifier actually sound quite decent to me, and H185 is definitely the highlight of them.
> 
> HIFIKIWI on the other hand is a relatively new brand from China, made by a Chinese office supply company. The interesting bit isn't about these H1's sound quality, but they are more like the "reproduction" model of the discontinued AKG K314P and Sennheiser MX500. As the story goes, HIFIKIWI has partnered up with Foster (which I believe is the OEM for both models) to bring these earbuds back under a its own brand. Well, I never listened to a K314P before, but the Lyrebird H1 does sounds pretty close to a MX500.


 
  
 Where would you put those Edifier in your recommendation list?
  
 I have a pair of H180 which I much prefer over the Yuin PK3 I previously had, but even if H180 bass is great I find its highs are quite limited and I miss some enphasis in this area... Knowing that love V shaped sound and that my dap is a FiiO X3II (custom V shaped equalized), would you recommend any other earbud that would improve my audio experience?


----------



## golov17

Chompy, h185, lmho


----------



## golov17

Suvov S50 And Edifier M212, sounds like AKGs


Spoiler


----------



## ClieOS

chompy said:


> Where would you put those Edifier in your recommendation list?
> 
> I have a pair of H180 which I much prefer over the Yuin PK3 I previously had, but even if H180 bass is great I find its highs are quite limited and I miss some enphasis in this area... Knowing that love V shaped sound and that my dap is a FiiO X3II (custom V shaped equalized), would you recommend any other earbud that would improve my audio experience?


 

 I have not listened to the Edifier enough to put them into the list. But I reckon you might like the Panasonic HJ329, which is as V-shaped as any earbud I have heard. There are still a few floating in Taobao, but there is no guarantee it will be genuine (though I don't think this particular model is hot in the counterfeiter's list either). If you can't find HJ329, then H185 isn't a bad second choice.


----------



## golov17

Edifier / H101 not bad, really..
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/h101/32254165612.html


Spoiler


----------



## Daijiro

clieos said:


> My recommendation is on thew first post. The only con about it is that the bass depth and texture isn't quite there, so it is only for those who value detail and soundstage much more than bass. E100 and PK3 are more for the mainstream listener.
> 
> No, never actually heard of Musa SP1 before - a quick google seems to suggest it is an Indonesia brand...


hmm,,is it like an earbud version of havi b3 p1?


Yes, Musa is a china brand, some people said it's have better soundsig than e100,maybe u have to try it, i wanna know where would u rank it on ur list


----------



## rymd

What's the difference between H180 and H185? I really did not like the H180 because of its boomy mid bass and lack of sub bass extension. I thought the E100 was better in almost every way, though it's not as bassy. It does have highs though. If the H185 is clearly better than the H180, then darn I should've gotten that instead because their prices are nearly the same.


----------



## Toom

For those with the E100 having fit issues, perhaps try reversing the earpieces - I've discovered that if I put the right bud in my left ear and vice-versa this fits better and more securely.
  
 Of course, this reverses the channels of the music, but I use Neutron app on my HTC phone and this has the option to switch the channels, so its all good.


----------



## ClieOS

daijiro said:


> hmm,,is it like an earbud version of havi b3 p1?
> 
> Yes, Musa is a china brand, some people said it's have better soundsig than e100,maybe u have to try it, i wanna know where would u rank it on ur list


 
  
 In some way, yes, you can say it is like an earbud version of Havi B3 Pro1.
  
 I might try out the Musa sometime, though I can't make any promise. Also, the red transparent Musa is actually SP2 (though it seems many refer it as SP1). The actual SP1 is even rarer and it has a black housing, or so I read.
  


rymd said:


> What's the difference between H180 and H185? I really did not like the H180 because of its boomy mid bass and lack of sub bass extension. I thought the E100 was better in almost every way, though it's not as bassy. It does have highs though. If the H185 is clearly better than the H180, then darn I should've gotten that instead because their prices are nearly the same.


 
  
 H185 is in comparison more U-shaped sounding, so less mid-bass and better bass extension. Though if you are looking for sub-bass, I don't think it will be better than E100. I think it is best to keep to your E100 for now.
  


toom said:


> For those with the E100 having fit issues, perhaps try reversing the earpieces - I've discovered that if I put the right bud in my left ear and vice-versa this fits better and more securely.
> 
> Of course, this reverses the channels of the music, but I use Neutron app on my HTC phone and this has the option to switch the channels, so its all good.


 
  
 That's curious, consider E100's earpiece is bilateral in design.


----------



## gandroider

Anybody have tried Dunu EX150?


----------



## fleasbaby

gandroider said:


> Anybody have tried Dunu EX150?


 
  
 No...have always kind of wanted to though. Any for sale anywhere still?


----------



## golov17

http://search.taobao.com/search?q=dunu+%E8%BE%BE%E9%9F%B3%E7%A7%91+ex-150


----------



## golov17

Dear ClieOS, could you add to your ranking BGVP Cidy KT100? This is a very decent earbuds, IMHO. Thank you.


Spoiler






http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=39516878957


----------



## mochill

I have the kt100 also , its great cheap bud


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> Dear ClieOS, could you add to your ranking BGVP Cidy KT100? This is a very decent earbuds, IMHO. Thank you.


 
  
 Maybe, right now I have too many things I want, not enough money to spend around


----------



## golov17

For the future ...


----------



## golov17

http://www.head-fi.org/t/764808/newsmy-g1-pocket-lossless-player#post_11565928
Join ..


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/764808/newsmy-g1-pocket-lossless-player#post_11565928
> Join ..


 

 Err?


----------



## golov17

Unknown DAC.


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> Unknown DAC.


 
 Let continue the discussion over to that thread.


----------



## golov17

Rare earbuds Suvov S30 in the case of Philips, if someone is caught, then I highly recommend.



Spoiler


----------



## fleasbaby

golov17 said:


> http://search.taobao.com/search?q=dunu+%E8%BE%BE%E9%9F%B3%E7%A7%91+ex-150




Thanks golov! Next question, how do you guys buy from Taobao? I have never really explored that...


----------



## golov17

We need a mediator for each country has its own. If you look, you find. Google search is still running.


----------



## fleasbaby

golov17 said:


> We need a mediator for each country has its own. If you look, you find. Google search is still running.




Thanks golov...found them on aliexpress as well. Not much out there about them...interesting.


----------



## golov17

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-selling-DUNU-EX150-high-impedance-earphones-high-quality-reduction-degree-HIFI-headphones/32330437004.html


----------



## davotrail12

Yea Aliexpress is a nice point, though you can as well get it in Amazon


----------



## Toom

Really great review of the E100s here. 
http://headfonics.com/2015/05/the-12-e100-iem-by-baldoor/


----------



## god-bluff

toom said:


> Really great review of the E100s here.
> http://headfonics.com/2015/05/the-12-e100-iem-by-baldoor/



That is a serious amount of hyperbole


----------



## Toom

396629 said:


> That is a serious amount of hyperbole




Not really.


----------



## cocopro

Just got my E100s, very impressive bass performance, almost comparable to poorly driven HE400i=)
 1 more vote to not a hype=)


----------



## kjk1281

396629 said:


> That is a serious amount of hyperbole




Par for the course considering the author. This is the guy who praised the terrible mediocre FAD Piano Forte II only to back track a bit later. 

Anyway, I don't think it's respectful to ClieOS to post other people's reviews in his thread. I also question people posting about random earbuds. If you have something to share, there's another thread for that, or better yet, start a new one.


----------



## god-bluff

I did actually get some E100As today and only had a brief listen but they're not bad at all in terms of sound  To say, however, these, I quote: '*outperforms the MX980 series buds in every single way*' might mean this bloke's got a great sense of humour, is ineberated or he's been paid to say this claptrap.
 
Of course he might actually believe what he says I suppose, each to their own but he is just a bit over enthusiastic. 
 
One thing I have to ask though  is what is the remote for ? It has no effect when used with my (android) phone and only the pause/play button works with an iPod. The volume buttons have no effect at all.
 
Is this normal or are they defective ? As it is I wish I'd just got the none remote version or maybe not bothered at all. They might just end up in a drawer with many other similar cheap earphones I've accumulated over the years, like so much multi coloured spaghetti !


----------



## swmkdr

396629 said:


> I did actually get some E100As today and only had a brief listen but they're not bad at all in terms of sound  To say, however, these, I quote: '*outperforms the MX980 series buds in every single way*' might mean this bloke's got a great sense of humour, is ineberated or he's been paid to say this claptrap. 
 Agreed, they're very good for the price but nothing noteworthy. I have owned the vast majority of highly rated earbuds and still own the MX980s, ANV3 and BE7. The E100s don't compare - they're decent and that's about it, tonality is also a little unnatural. I should also be able to compare to the VE earbuds soon as I am going to order shortly. 
  
 I will admit that I refuse to wear them 'sideways', even though I agree the sound improves a little, because it defeats the main advantage of earbuds. They should be effortless to use.
  
 I remember a few of that guy's earbud reviews on head-fi and they were often incredibly hyperbolic. The E100 hype is also odd in that it seems to be just a few very vociferous people going crazy for them and most people figuratively shrugging when they try them out.
  
 Edit: As I was writing this I was reminded of the hype for the Tingo earbuds a while back. They were hyped in a similarly feverish way by one person in particular. I found them to be the most artificially coloured, grating earbuds I had ever owned.


----------



## Pokersound

Hi friends.
  
 I have the Yuin PK1 that I use with my Galaxy S5 and Fiio E17, some times with Cowon J3 and the E17 and with the DX100 that will be with me soon again after a battery repair.
  
 I think that will be great if I try another earbud, I wonder which one?
  
 What do you think could I buy?
  
 I woul like a better earbud,
  
 ClieOS, could you give me some advise.
  
 If could be bought on Amazon will be wreat.
  
 Thanks


----------



## golov17

pokersound said:


> Hi friends.
> 
> I have the Yuin PK1 that I use with my Galaxy S5 and Fiio E17, some times with Cowon J3 and the E17 and with the DX100 that will be with me soon again after a battery repair.
> 
> ...



VE Asura, imho


----------



## ClieOS

pokersound said:


> Hi friends.
> 
> I have the Yuin PK1 that I use with my Galaxy S5 and Fiio E17, some times with Cowon J3 and the E17 and with the DX100 that will be with me soon again after a battery repair.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The only top end earbud on Amazon is probably Sennheiser MX985, which is also quite overpriced with almost $100 more than it MSRP. You already have a pretty good setup, so Zen should be more of a natural choice. Maybe the newer Blox might worth a look into as well, but I haven't listened to any of the BE series to comment on them.


----------



## golov17

Blox BE7 excellent headphones for operation without an amplifier.


----------



## mochill

Es100,asura,Zen ,alpha1,kt100 are good choice for earbuds


----------



## Toom

396629 said:


> I did actually get some E100As today and only had a brief listen but they're not bad at all in terms of sound  To say, however, these, I quote: [COLOR=FF0000]'*outperforms the MX980 series buds in every single way*'[/COLOR] might mean this bloke's got a great sense of humour, is ineberated or he's been paid to say this claptrap.
> 
> Of course he might actually believe what he says I suppose, each to their own but he is just a bit over enthusiastic.




No, he is perfectly correct - I have MX985 and the E100 wipe the floor with them.


----------



## golov17

This, to a greater extent depends on personal preferences signature sound.


----------



## ClieOS

toom said:


> No, he is perfectly correct - I have MX985 and the E100 wipe the floor with them.


 
  
 Unfortunately not my floor. But as said, everyone has his/her own preference. If you really like E100 that much, all the better for you.


----------



## chompy

golov17 said:


> This, to a greater extent depends on personal preferences signature sound.


 
  
 I think you're right, it all depends on personal sound tastes: what someone would think it's the best earbud / headphone / speaker because it sound so natural another one could think it's the worst thing he has ever heard becuase it's boring and you cannot do anything about it.
  
 It's really great to have people here who shares their impressions and could help others decide between one or another equipment, but the end user will have the last word, there's no universal thruth in this world, anybody will always have their own opinion.


----------



## god-bluff

What about this remote though. Is it just for show or does it work ? Anyone tried the E100a with any devices; apple or android or whatever. Maybe its for Blackberries ?!?


----------



## Toom

396629 said:


> What about this remote though. Is it just for show or does it work ? Anyone tried the E100a with any devices; apple or android or whatever. Maybe its for Blackberries ?!?


 
  
 I dont know - I only have the non-remote version of the E100, although I do use it with my Android phone.  Usually the remote on IEMs is designed for iPhones and with Android only allows for changing or pausing tracks, not for volume adjustment. But like I say, I dont have the E100a so cant confirm.


----------



## fnkcow

clieos said:


> Have the Edifier H180 / H185 / and H190 with me right now, plus HIFIKIWI 'Honey Buzzard' H1 and 'Lyrebird' H1.
> 
> All three Edifier actually sound quite decent to me, and H185 is definitely the highlight of them.
> 
> HIFIKIWI on the other hand is a relatively new brand from China, made by a Chinese office supply company. The interesting bit isn't about these H1's sound quality, but they are more like the "reproduction" model of the discontinued AKG K314P and Sennheiser MX500. As the story goes, HIFIKIWI has partnered up with Foster (which I believe is the OEM for both models) to bring these earbuds back under a its own brand. Well, I never listened to a K314P before, but the Lyrebird H1 does sounds pretty close to a MX500.


 
  
 How are the Honey Buzzard and the Lyrebird? 
 Do they have any remote chance at belonging in the good and above category, or just plain decent?


----------



## ClieOS

fnkcow said:


> How are the Honey Buzzard and the Lyrebird?
> Do they have any remote chance at belonging in the good and above category, or just plain decent?


 
  
 They are just decent and nothing particularly special.


----------



## ClieOS

Another update with Edifier - I just went to a local bookstore and find out they start stocking some Edifier recently, so I picked up another earbud, the H101. The surprising part is that, not only it is pretty consistent in overall SQ with the rest of the line-up, but it is probably the most balanced and neutral of the four. In contrast, H180 tends to be more bass dominant, H185 is more U-shaped and fun, where H190 is more warm and smooth.


----------



## golov17

Some time ago, I bought Edifier h101 on Aliexpress. The problem manifested itself in the fact that the left and right earpiece sounded not identical to each other. Maybe I was just unlucky.


----------



## chompy

clieos said:


> Another update with Edifier - I just went to a local bookstore and find out they start stocking some Edifier recently, so I picked up another earbud, the H101. The surprising part is that, not only it is pretty consistent in overall SQ with the rest of the line-up, but it is probably the most balanced and neutral of the four. In contrast, H180 tends to be more bass dominant, H185 is more U-shaped and fun, where H190 is more warm and smooth.


 

 Thanks for the update ClieOS, ¿how would you compare H185 bass to H180?


----------



## golov17

http://www.hifiheadphones.co.uk/reviews/soundmagics-earbuds-ep10-ep20-and-ep30-review/
Does anyone listen to them?


----------



## ClieOS

chompy said:


> Thanks for the update ClieOS, ¿how would you compare H185 bass to H180?


 
  
 H185 has less mid-bass, but deeper bass depth and faster impact. So basically H185's bass has more quality and less quantity (but not lacking in any way).


----------



## goldenSHK

This new list is great, good job ClieOS! But I have to say, it can't be complete without an analysis of at least some of the new Blox BE series buds 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I have the Blox BE5 and it is almost as good as my MX985. In fact, I mostly prefer listening to my BE5s most of the time because it just has slightly better PRaT. The Sennheisers are a bit dry and too neutral but very detailed, but the BE5 is almost as detailed if not missing the mark a tiny bit, but has a touch of warmth to bring out the soul of the music. I think Woo from Blox said that the BE7 is the BE5 with just a slightly differing sound signature so they are almost the same. I haven't heard the BE3 or BE7, which most people say are amazing, but for me the BE5 leaves me completely satisfied for the time being until it inevitably breaks (which I really hope it doesn't, but it's very delicate like most Blox buds). The bass is very smooth and present. I haven't heard a bud with better bass, it isn't copious or overbearing, but it is there like full sized cans. Impressed.


----------



## golov17

goldenshk, http://www.head-fi.org/t/759219/ve-a-new-and-impressive-earbuds-brand/270#post_11568531


----------



## daveyostrow

ClieOs, I think you should add the apply earpods to the list. They aren't amazing, but surpriaingly good. Very comfortable as well.
I'd love to see how they stack up.


----------



## Toom

daveyostrow said:


> ClieOs, I think you should add the apply earpods to the list. They aren't amazing, but surpriaingly good. Very comfortable as well.
> I'd love to see how they stack up.


 
  
 They are number 10 in the Good category.


----------



## jant71

Okay, so the Earpods are covered. How about adding the Sony version, the STH30 
  


 Try that with Earpods


----------



## Pokersound

Thanks CleiOS and golov17 for your answers.
  
 Where can I buy this VE Asura and Zen?


----------



## golov17

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Venture-Electronic-VE-Zen-high-impedance-320-ohms-earbud/32302987270.html


----------



## golov17

http://www.head-fi.org/t/759219/ve-a-new-and-impressive-earbuds-brand
Asura will be available soon, as well, and Monk, follow this theme.


----------



## daveyostrow

toom said:


> They are number 10 in the Good category.


 

 thanks, i totally looked that over.


----------



## ClieOS

jant71 said:


> Okay, so the Earpods are covered. How about adding the Sony version, the STH30
> 
> ...
> 
> Try that with Earpods


 
  
 Won't mind trying it out once it reaches the local Sony store.


----------



## waynes world

Now that I seem to have morphed over to the dark (aka "bud") side, I think this is the thread for me! Great stuff ClieOS


----------



## mochill

Glad to have you onboard


----------



## ben7337

Any idea where to get the BE5's? They always seem to be out of stock on the blox website which seems to be the only place to buy them, can't even get the BE3's anymore, glad I have a pair, but worried about when they die.


----------



## golov17

http://www.head-fi.org/t/730946/fs-brand-new-blox-be5-will-ship-worldwide#post_11436532
Recommended seller


----------



## goldenSHK

ben7337 said:


> Any idea where to get the BE5's? They always seem to be out of stock on the blox website which seems to be the only place to buy them, can't even get the BE3's anymore, glad I have a pair, but worried about when they die.


 
 I think the new Blox flagship is going to come out soon in the coming month or two, so if you want to shell out over $120+ on that one then maybe wait on the BE5s, but I have the BE5 and they are my current favorite earbud tied with the MX985 so for ~$75 for new BE5s like golov17 linked, they are a great deal.


----------



## chompy

What can we expect from Ostry KC08? Are there any preview units out there or has anybody listened to preproduction versions?
  
 Could anybody with Chinese knowledge please translate the only info that is currently availble on Ostry website:
  

  
 Thank you!


----------



## golov17

I wrote to them, they said, about june, and details are not reported, even though I asked them.


----------



## golov17

Who knows something about this headset?


Spoiler






http://crossupshin.com/product/ubiquo-uct-em905-double-dome-driver-mic-earphone/


----------



## waynes world

chompy said:


> What can we expect from Ostry KC08? Are there any preview units out there or has anybody listened to preproduction versions?
> 
> Could anybody with Chinese knowledge please translate the only info that is currently availble on Ostry website:




Before getting the Zens, I would have outright ignored those "earbuds" in spite of loving my ostry kc06 and kc06a's. But now that I am a full earbud convert, the kc08's seem very interesting!


----------



## golov17

If you do not plan to use the amplifier for a source with low output firepower, the choice Blox BE7 for $ 100, 22 Ohm, 112 db obvious, IMHO.


----------



## gandroider

Both Blox BE3 and BE7 are v-shaped, any review for BE5? Are they in-between those BE3-BE7 or a different SQ?
 Because Yuin PK2 is quite different than its PK1 and PK3.
  
 Thanks


----------



## RedJohn456

so I have officially converted to an earbud believer. Wasnt really planning on it and I am ashamed to admit that I looked down on earbuds before. But am really warming up to the form factor and advantages. Subbed


----------



## golov17

gandroider said:


> Both Blox BE3 and BE7 are v-shaped, any review for BE5? Are they in-between those BE3-BE7 or a different SQ?
> Because Yuin PK2 is quite different than its PK1 and PK3.
> 
> Thanks


The fact that I have BE7mk1, and they can not V-shaped, BE5 is a marked improvement from the BE3mk1, with a similar signature sound. The site Blox now sell BE3mk2 and BE7mk2, the sound of which I can not comment, because it could change. All of the above, IMHO.


----------



## golov17

As you rightly pointed out, PK2 different from PK1 & 3 also BE7mk1 differs from BE3mk1 & BE5.


----------



## goldenSHK

gandroider said:


> Both Blox BE3 and BE7 are v-shaped, any review for BE5? Are they in-between those BE3-BE7 or a different SQ?
> Because Yuin PK2 is quite different than its PK1 and PK3.
> 
> Thanks


 
 I have the BE5s. They are pretty neutral with a very slight dash of warmth. Smoother than the BE3s and a bit more neutral. Haven't heard the BE7s so can't comment on that. Woo said that the BE7s are just a retuned version of the BE5s so they are identical in materials and driver minus tuning.


----------



## RedJohn456

Have the zen in my ears now, and honestly if they are this good I can't imagine how good the Blox TM7 and Sennheiser MX985 must sound. I checked out the Blox site and they only list the M2C. Is the TM7 out of production?


----------



## Pokersound

Hi friends
  
 I'm thinking to buy the Zen but what do you think could be a good dac-amp to use with that earbuds?


----------



## waynes world

pokersound said:


> Hi friends
> 
> I'm thinking to buy the Zen but what do you think could be a good dac-amp to use with that earbuds?


 
  
 ClieOS is probably your man.
  
 But I am enjoying them very much off of my laptop + foobar2000 + Hifimediy U2 Sabre Dac + Cayin C5.


----------



## Pokersound

Thank you waynes world.
  
 I have the Fiio E17 but I wonder if the Zen deserve something better


----------



## waynes world

pokersound said:


> Thank you waynes world.
> 
> I have the Fiio E17 but I wonder if the Zen deserve something better


 
  
@RedJohn456 has an E17, so he'll probably have some thoughts. The Zen loves good amping and scales well though, so I wouldn't be surprised if other gear have a large impact with them. For me for now though, the C5 it doing the trick.
  
 Having said that, I just switched to the Zen straigtht off of my ihifi 770 dap, and it still sounds friggin' awesome. But when I throw the C5 into the mix, the bass has more authority and depth, and the headspace/soundstage is increased, making for an even more fuller, immersive sound.


----------



## RedJohn456

pokersound said:


> Thank you waynes world.
> 
> I have the Fiio E17 but I wonder if the Zen deserve something better


 

 I am using the E17 and am using it on 12 gain. It sounds nice and full with that setting however these do scale nicely with better gear. these definitely deserve better and I will be definitely saving up for a good amp


----------



## golov17

The site Bloxearphone.com all sold out.  We are waiting for the new flagship?


----------



## waynes world

So what are your favorite buds golov17?


----------



## golov17

They are all my children  It's hard to choose and how to choose? 
You can only know who is older, someone younger.


----------



## golov17

Suppose shorts or coat .. Do you need to choose one thing? Everything has its time, IMHO.


----------



## golov17

VE Zen & Blox BE7mk1 is older.


----------



## golov17

I ordered DUNU EX150, I hope they are worth the money hectic.


----------



## B9Scrambler

I did complete a search, with no results. Has anyone here tried the Sennheiser MX470? Prior to owning these the only buds I had listened to were those terrible ones that came with cheap electronics, so its safe to say my earbud experience to date has been limited at best. That said, I took a chance scooping up the MX470 when it went on sale, and I've been completely happy with the purchase. They sound slightly dry compared to my extensive iem collection, but have a nice soundstage, decent detailing, and good bass. They do distort at high volumes, but I never listen that loud (was curious to see how they would handle stupidly high volumes). The fit is also great since the driver housing is reasonably small.
  
​


----------



## golov17

MX 375,560,760,880



Spoiler






They're not bad, you can buy any of what you will find on sale.


----------



## golov17

But it is better buy a Pioneer SE-CE521, a good ear buds.



Spoiler


----------



## golov17

http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=a1z5f.7632060.0.0&id=8542857321 For Collection


----------



## RedJohn456

waynes world said:


> @RedJohn456 has an E17, so he'll probably have some thoughts. The Zen loves good amping and scales well though, so I wouldn't be surprised if other gear have a large impact with them. For me for now though, the C5 it doing the trick.
> 
> Having said that, I just switched to the Zen straigtht off of my ihifi 770 dap, and it still sounds friggin' awesome. But when I throw the C5 into the mix, the bass has more authority and depth, and the headspace/soundstage is increased, making for an even more fuller, immersive sound.


 

 I agree. It sounds okay out of my phone and laptop but when I add the E17, it sounds a lot fuller and details are much easier to hear. Soundstage is more defined and instrument positioning is pretty good as well!
  
 Edit: Sorry Wayne don't know why I missed you post earlier


----------



## RedJohn456

So I was looking up the sennheiser MX895 and Blox Tm7 and both appear to be discontinued   Are there any other ear buds which are currently out that can match the aforementioned ones?


----------



## god-bluff

redjohn456 said:


> So I was looking up the sennheiser MX895 and Blox Tm7 and both appear to be discontinued   Are there any other ear buds which are currently out that can match the aforementioned ones?



Well I've got to mention Atomic Floyd Earjax I suppose;an easy match for MX980 but only my opinion. But I doubt you'd be anyone else to agree as not many have heard them

 If you believe some of the posts on here the Earbells but they're nothing like to me. Totally unnatural sound compared to the Earjax not in same class.


----------



## Toom

396629 said:


> Well I've got to mention Atomic Floyd Earjax I suppose;an easy match for MX980 but only my opinion. But I doubt you'd be anyone else to agree as not many have heard them
> 
> If you believe some of the posts on here the Earbells but they're nothing like to me. Totally unnatural sound compared to the Earjax not in same class.


 
  
 'Unnatural sound' is probably the last description I'd use about the E100s. Have you tried putting them in your ears?


----------



## god-bluff

toom said:


> 'Unnatural sound' is probably the last description I'd use about the E100s. Have you tried putting them in your ears? :wink_face:



Oh no. I haven't, was shoving em down me trousers will try in ears later


----------



## god-bluff

Long day but I finally got a chance to ear these in my ears.
  
 Still sound a bit weird .Similar to some Sennheiser (CX275s)  in ears I have, the soundtaging seems all wrong. All left or right and little in the centre; difficult to explain. Either my hearings out or you need to try some other phones if these sound natural. As it is I look at them as £13 wasted when combined with ornamental non functioning remote. They're not terrible, their tone is quite good, but they are inferior imo to the cheaper K311 (a real under appreciated earbud), let alone the MX760 or K317/319 and it would a bit silly to compare them to MX980 or Airjax.
  
 I however realise I'm probably a minority of one and these are indeed the absolute pinnacle of earbud design Which by definition they have to be according to that expert understated review which states as fact they are better than the MX980 at 1/10 price. 
  
 Buy with confidence and ignore my ramblings. Believe the hype.


----------



## kjk1281

Although I think the E100 is worthy of its price and I'm generally happy with them, as somebody who also owns the CX275S, I get what you're saying about the soundstage. It's as if the phones could use a crossfeed filter to get rid of a slight bit of hollowness in the presentation. In fact it's this reason why I agreed that the one review linked was a bit hyperbolic. They're certainly not in the same league as the MX985 or Zen, at least to these ears.


----------



## god-bluff

kjk1281 said:


> Although I think the E100 is worthy of its price and I'm generally happy with them, as somebody who also owns the CX275S, I get what you're saying about the soundstage. It's as if the phones could use a crossfeed filter to get rid of a slight bit of hollowness in the presentation. In fact it's this reason why I agreed that the one review linked was a bit hyperbolic. They're certainly not in the same league as the MX985 or Zen, at least to these ears.




Yes they're worth the money. I was just expecting a lot morr. I just end up accumulating a lot of cheap phones I don't end up using which is still a waste of money.


----------



## Toom

I have the non-remote version. Maybe they sound different? 

Most probably it's the shape of your ears, because I have tried many many different earphones over the years and the soundstaging on the E100 is brilliant in my view. 

I assume you are using them with the donut foams?


----------



## RedJohn456

396629 said:


> Well I've got to mention Atomic Floyd Earjax I suppose;an easy match for MX980 but only my opinion. But I doubt you'd be anyone else to agree as not many have heard them
> 
> If you believe some of the posts on here the Earbells but they're nothing like to me. Totally unnatural sound compared to the Earjax not in same class.


 
  
 Haven't heard those unfortunately but E100 I do have. Its not bad for the price and very enjoyable 
  


396629 said:


> Long day but I finally got a chance to ear these in my ears.
> 
> Still sound a bit weird .Similar to some Sennheiser (CX275s)  in ears I have, the soundtaging seems all wrong. All left or right and little in the centre; difficult to explain. Either my hearings out or you need to try some other phones if these sound natural. As it is I look at them as £13 wasted when combined with ornamental non functioning remote. They're not terrible, their tone is quite good, but they are inferior imo to the cheaper K311 (a real under appreciated earbud), let alone the MX760 or K317/319 and it would a bit silly to compare them to MX980 or Airjax.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah that review was a bit hyperbolic but the E100s are pretty good for the price but not a giant killer imo. The cable for one thing really annoys me
  


kjk1281 said:


> Although I think the E100 is worthy of its price and I'm generally happy with them, as somebody who also owns the CX275S, I get what you're saying about the soundstage. It's as if the phones could use a crossfeed filter to get rid of a slight bit of hollowness in the presentation. In fact it's this reason why I agreed that the one review linked was a bit hyperbolic. They're certainly not in the same league as the MX985 or Zen, at least to these ears.


 
  
 Yup I have both the E100 and Zens right now, and to my ears Zens are in a different league compared to the E100. Again E100 aren't bad, they are good for the price but like you said they are NOT in the same league as Zens imo.
  
 I love the soundstage of the Zens and it gives an excellent out of head sounstage experience. Sound does not feel like its coming from inside the head. Easy and non fatiguing while retaining tons of detail which is a feat itself. Where as the E100 has treble that makes my ear ring and fatigue after listening.


----------



## Toom

How can anyone dislike the E100 cable? Its one of the best cables I have ever seen.
  
 As for the Headfonics review being hyperbolic - no, it's not. 
  
 With regards to the VE Zen, I would love to try them but they are too expensive and I dont own a portable amp any more. These 2 obstacles are not small, in my humble opinion. How much does an amp + Zen total?


----------



## goldenSHK

396629 said:


> Long day but I finally got a chance to ear these in my ears.
> 
> Still sound a bit weird .Similar to some Sennheiser (CX275s)  in ears I have, the soundtaging seems all wrong. All left or right and little in the centre; difficult to explain. Either my hearings out or you need to try some other phones if these sound natural. As it is I look at them as £13 wasted when combined with ornamental non functioning remote. They're not terrible, their tone is quite good, but they are inferior imo to the cheaper K311 (a real under appreciated earbud), let alone the MX760 or K317/319 and it would a bit silly to compare them to MX980 or Airjax.
> 
> ...


 
 Honestly, I wanted to report that last link to the E100 review to get the post deleted. That has got to be the most hyperbolic and looney review I've read about something in a really long time. I don't care if it's the best thing since sliced bread, it's not comparable to $1000 summit fi headphones lol. That was an amusing read, but I feel bad for giving the site a page view.  

 I'm sure the E100 is really good for reference, but reviews like that make actual impressions about the product seem non-credible. 
  
 EDIT: the review I was referring to is this, not ClieOSs review of the E100 which I think is very fair.


----------



## Tarnum

I've heard E100 for near a year, it's great and I think the position in ClieOS round-up is not wrong.
 Actually, E100 is not just pretty good for its price.
 It can be a giant killer for small budget....but not the champion slayer....haha
 Cable is ok, but I prefered Tingo's cable.
 Straight jack plug is bad for long-term using.


----------



## Toom

goldenshk said:


> Honestly, I wanted to report that last link to the E100 review to get the post deleted. That has got to be the most hyperbolic and looney review I've read about something in a really long time. I don't care if it's the best thing since sliced bread, it's not comparable to $1000 summit fi headphones lol. That was an amusing read, but I feel bad for giving the site a page view.
> 
> I'm sure the E100 is really good for reference, but reviews like that make actual impressions about the product seem non-credible.
> 
> EDIT: the review I was referring to is this, not ClieOSs review of the E100 which I think is very fair.


 
  
 Where is ClieOS review?
  
 I loved the Headfonics review of the E100 - seemed very astute to me, pointing out just how much you can get for so little money and what that might mean in an industry predicated on shaking you down when you walk in the door.


----------



## Danneq

Long time since I posted here, but I have to comment on the Earbell E100. I own earbuds such as Sennheiser MX980 and Blox TM7 together with vintage earbuds such as Sony MDR E484 and Aiwa HP-D9.

 Overall, I would put the Sennheisers and Blox at the top of my list. They are very similar and don't really lack anything. Fully textured bass, highs that are detailed without being piercing, wide and deep soundstage with a 3D feel...

 The Sony E484 have got the best bass I've ever heard in a pair of earbuds. However, after a driver on one of my two pairs died, I was forced to start using my NIB backup pair and now I'm afraid to bring them outside. The Aiwas have the best soundstage I've heard in a pair of earbuds/headphones. I haven't heard the more expensive over ear headphones (except ATH A2000X), but these D9's are just incredible. It's like being inside of a huge dome where every instrument is clear and can be exactly positioned. However, bass is not very good on these Aiwas. I feel the same about them as the vintage Sony earbuds and don't bring them outside.

 Cheap Chinese earbuds are like a godsend. I have enjoyed the Dasetn earbuds and looked up many other ones that have been introduced in this and other earbud threads on Head fi.
 Overall, Earbell E100 is my budget favorite by far, when it comes to the sound. It is a bit thin sounding overall and it might not agree with some sources (for instance, I discovered yesterday that my otherwise good sounding Samsung YH-J70 HDD MP3 player doesn't work with the E100, but really well with my Blox BE3).

 I have owned Sennheiser MX760 and sold them. I did not like the "sterile" sound combined with an unnatural soundstage. I still have my pair of AKG K319. I still like their dry sound even if they completely lack that 3D aspect of the soundstage.
 The cheap Earbell E100 blow both the MX760 and AKG K319 away. They are not as good as the MX980 and TM7, and while the E100 might not be as good as the Sony E484 and Aiwa D9, they have a more balanced sound overall.

 My only complaint is the fit...


----------



## Toom

danneq said:


> Long time since I posted here, but I have to comment on the Earbell E100. I own earbuds such as Sennheiser MX980 and Blox TM7 together with vintage earbuds such as Sony MDR E484 and Aiwa HP-D9.
> 
> Overall, I would put the Sennheisers and Blox at the top of my list. They are very similar and don't really lack anything. Fully textured bass, highs that are detailed without being piercing, wide and deep soundstage with a 3D feel...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice comments, but I would say that for me, the E100 easily beat the MX980 I had (until it broke last week), for both fit and sound.  The 980s were too heavy and needed constant re-arrangement, and the bass was anaemic.  So I found them a lot more thin sounding than the E100s - using the donut foams on the Earbells, the sound is rich and very addictive. 

 I guess this underlines just how subjective audio is, especially when it comes to biological interfaces. Not only do we all have different tastes in music but our lugholes are all shaped differently. Actually, I guess the latter probably determines the former to a large degree, but you know what I mean.....
  
 The bottom line for me is that I am not made of money like some of the people here, and for me the E100 represent the perfect sweet spot.


----------



## Danneq

> Spoiler: Originally Posted by Toom
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 To me, the bass of the MX980 is "heavier" and more deep than the E100. However, the bass of the E100 is more detailed.

 I can see what you mean about the subjectiveness of audio. Half of the time when I buy something that others recommend, I end up not liking it and selling it.

 Cheap Chinese earbuds are also great for me. I used to be able to spend more on audio than these days when I have a family to support...


----------



## goldenSHK

danneq said:


> Long time since I posted here, but I have to comment on the Earbell E100. I own earbuds such as Sennheiser MX980 and Blox TM7 together with vintage earbuds such as Sony MDR E484 and Aiwa HP-D9.
> 
> Overall, I would put the Sennheisers and Blox at the top of my list. They are very similar and don't really lack anything. Fully textured bass, highs that are detailed without being piercing, wide and deep soundstage with a 3D feel...
> 
> ...


 
 This seems like a really reasonable and most likely true assessment. I have found that my MX985 is clearly technically superior to all the Chinese budget brands, although some come closer than others like the E100. My Blox BE5 is a close second but my personal favorite for listening on the go and for enjoyment because it has a slightly more musical sound and lusher bass.


----------



## golov17

Price Drop $62
http://penonaudio.com/Hifiman-ES100?search=hifiman%20es100


----------



## Toom

goldenshk said:


> This seems like a really reasonable and most likely true assessment. I have found that my MX985 is clearly technically superior to all the Chinese budget brands, although some come closer than others like the E100. My Blox BE5 is a close second but my personal favorite for listening on the go and for enjoyment because it has a slightly more musical sound and lusher bass.


 
  
 And yet that's not what I found,   
  
 What I struggle with is the concept of 'technical superiority' vs 'musicality'.
  
 Whichever way it slices, you're playing music through the things.


----------



## ClieOS

toom said:


> Where is ClieOS review?
> 
> I loved the Headfonics review of the E100 - seemed very astute to me, pointing out just how much you can get for so little money and what that might mean in an industry predicated on shaking you down when you walk in the door.


 
  
 Read the first page.
  
 E100 isn't special enough for me to write a full review.
  


toom said:


> And yet that's not what I found,
> 
> What I struggle with is the concept of 'technical superiority' vs 'musicality'.
> 
> Whichever way it slices, you're playing music through the things.


 
  
 You just need to live with the fact the you don't seem to share the majority's opinion, regardless of how much you disagree with it.


----------



## Toom

clieos said:


> Read the first page.
> 
> E100 isn't special enough for me to write a full review.
> 
> ...


 
  
 They referred to your review, thats why I asked where it was.
  
 And no, you misunderstand me and are being a bit insulting.  Where is this 'majority opinion' of which you speak?  Three or four members of this forum does not constitute a consensus. And anyway, thats not the point - I have no issue in hearing what I hear and saying I enjoy the E100 far more than the MX980/985.  It would seem that others disagree, but thats not the point.

 What I wondered was why I keep seeing the descriptors 'technical' and 'musical' used without any real explanation of what that means. It baffles me. 
  
 Can you clarify? How can something designed to play music be technically superior to another item similarly designed which is deemed more musical?


----------



## god-bluff

Its great you've found something that's suits you so well and it seems you're not he only one that loves the Earbell; its got plenty of great reviews on Amazon after all. Everyone's entitled to their opinion and that's all it is an opinion.  No-ones right or wrong. Your're just so vociferous in your defence of this particularly earphone. You're obviously passionate about it !
  
  I could go on and on about my headphones including the seemingly ignored Earjax (I promise I wont mention them again !) but no-one would be that interested and it's a bit boring really.
  
 I still however think the majority of people who given the chance to listen to a range of good earbuds would not find this to be the best. Its good but people will disagree if its the very best ever earbud in the history of headphone design.


----------



## ClieOS

toom said:


> They referred to your review, thats why I asked where it was.
> 
> And no, you misunderstand me and are being a bit insulting.  Where is this 'majority opinion' of which you speak?  Three or four members of this forum does not constitute a consensus. And anyway, thats not the point - I have no issue in hearing what I hear and saying I enjoy the E100 far more than the MX980/985.  It would seem that others disagree, but thats not the point.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Now let me ask a question, what qualifies you to judge one earbud to be more musical than another? Well, whatever qualifies you to think E100 is better is that same qualification I have to say it is not better. Same goes for everyone else.
  
 Now let count back how many people in this thread that said E100 is no better than MX985, or Blox, or Zen, or whatever top-tier that you have claimed to be inferior, then you tell me who are the majority opinion here - I have just quickly read back the last ten pages or so (till the time of my last update) and it would seem you are the ONLY person who have claimed E100 to be the best of the best. Then I counted about 9 persons, me included, who own one or more than one of those top-tier (as well as E100) to disagree with you. At least in this thread, you are in the minority. Now if you find a thread where the majority (or maybe just more than 9?) of top-tier earbuds owner agree with your assessment that E100 beats them all, please share it with us.


----------



## Toom

396629 said:


> Its great you've found something that's suits you so well and it seems you're not he only one that loves the Earbell; its got plenty of great reviews on Amazon after all. Everyone's entitled to their opinion and that's all it is an opinion.  No-ones right or wrong. Your're just so vociferous in your defence of this particularly earphone. You're obviously passionate about it !
> 
> I could go on and on about my headphones including the seemingly ignored Earjax (I promise I wont mention them again !) but no-one would be that interested and it's a bit boring really.
> 
> I still however think the majority of people who given the chance to listen to a range of good earbuds would not find this to be the best. Its good but people will disagree if its the very best ever earbud in the history of headphone design.


 
  
 Calm down mate. I never said it was that. You are putting words in my mouth. I just disagree that the MX980 is superior, that's all, and I also disagree that the Headfonics review is hype.  You're the one that went off the deep end wanting to report it and calling it loony etc. Take it easy eh.


----------



## Toom

clieos said:


> Now let me ask a question, what qualifies you to judge one earbud to be more musical than another? Well, whatever qualifies you to think E100 is better is that same qualification I have to say it is not better. Same goes for everyone else.
> 
> Now let count back how many people in this thread that said E100 is no better than MX985, or Blox, or Zen, or whatever top-tier that you have claimed to be inferior, then you tell me who are the majority opinion here - I have just quickly read back the last ten pages or so (till the time of my last update) and it would seem you are the ONLY person who have claimed E100 to be the best of the best. Then I counted about 9 persons, me included, who own one or more than one of those top-tier (as well as E100) to disagree with you. At least in this thread, you are in the minority. Now if you find a thread where the majority (or maybe just more than 9?) of top-tier earbuds owner agree with your assessment that E100 beats them all, please share it with us.


 
  
 I just want clarification of technical vs musical.
  
 As for the E100 vs other earbuds, here's the only poll I have found, which does seem to show people liking it.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/727309/high-end-earbuds-dasetn-tingo-blox-yuin-etc-and-earbud-gear-discussion-impressions-thread
  
 I never said the E100 beats every other earbud out there. On a purely price-level vs sound basis, I'd say its got to be in with a chance, but like I say I haven't tried any of those top tier ones apart from the Senns, which I found wanting in comparison.


----------



## god-bluff

toom said:


> Calm down mate. I never said it was that. You are putting words in my mouth. I just disagree that the MX980 is superior, that's all, and I also disagree that the Headfonics review is hype.  You're the one that went off the deep end wanting to report it and calling it loony etc. Take it easy eh.


 
 I think you might need to look back a the posts. It wasn't me who was going to report. Please be careful with you're accusations. i did however find it 'loony' as most people would. It was quite a funny read in fact. Look at Amazon reviews if you want to see some less biased positive reviews from normal people. i was'nt putting words in your mouth you have stated that the E100 is superior to MX980/985 which would put it in the top three earbuds if not the very best, automatically.
  
 And to say i need to take it easy and calm down.  Don't worry yourself i  am calm. I was not trying to be funny when I said I was pleased you liked the ear buds i was being genuine but you throw it back at me. Maybe you should relax, end this now and enjoy your earbuds.
  
 I'm not getting involved anymore its turning into pathetic argument with no end.


----------



## Toom

396629 said:


> I think you might need to look back a the posts. It wasn't me who was going to report. Please be careful with you're accusations. i did however find it 'loony' as most people would. It was quite a funny read in fact. Look at Amazon reviews if you want to see some less biased positive reviews from normal people. i was'nt putting words in your mouth you have stated that the E100 is superior to MX980/985 which would put it in the top three earbuds if not the very best, automatically.
> 
> And to say i need to take it easy and calm down.  Don't worry yourself i  am calm. I was not trying to be funny when I said I was pleased you liked the ear buds i was being genuine but you throw it back at me. Maybe you should relax, end this now and enjoy your earbuds.
> 
> I'm not getting involved anymore its turning into pathetic argument with no end.


 
  
 Yes, sorry, I was getting you confused with someone else who said they wanted to report the review.  Apologies.
  
 However, your statement that me thinking the E100 superior to the MX980 puts it in the top or at the top is incorrect.  I haven't said that its the best earbud ever. Its just better than the mX980/985 thats all. As I havent tried all other earbuds, its impossible for me to rank them that way. Your own prejudice and bias determines your reading that way, its not mine.
  
 I'd also like to know how the Headfonics review is somehow more 'loony and biased' than others.  It seems perfectly well written and thought out to me.  If you disagree with his hearing of the product that's one thing, but you seem to be implying mental and critical imbalance. Is there some previous history with this reviewer I am not aware of?


----------



## ClieOS

toom said:


> I just want clarification of technical vs musical.
> 
> As for the E100 vs other earbuds, here's the only poll I have found, which does seem to show people liking it.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/727309/high-end-earbuds-dasetn-tingo-blox-yuin-etc-and-earbud-gear-discussion-impressions-thread
> ...


 
  
 It is all but the same - what make you think your definition of musicality is right? Or what make your words more correct than mine, or vise versa? None, really. There is no absolute standard that defines what is 'technical' or 'musical' in our world. Each of us has our own explanation that comes from our own listening experience - and therefore each of us classifies 'technical' and 'musical' based what we believe in. That is, whether it is technical or musical, it is but a person's opinion. Now I have said it on the VE thread and I have said it again - the repeating argument itself is POINTLESS. We have all expressed our opinion, and that should be enough. Trying to disproof another person listening taste with your own is POINTLESS. If you have to jump out every time you read something you disagree with, then of course you have to expect people will want to defend themselves - but to what end? All you have done is nothing but going round and round. How can you argue that your listening preference is better than everyone else? At the end, we can only agree that there will be some people who agree with you, and some who don't. In this case, I'll say most (or I should say just 'more') of us are disagreeing with you. Again, live and let live.
  
 Now I don't think anyone, even in this thread, has a problem with E100. It is by all mean a good earbud for the price. But a few of us certainly don't think of it as the end-all-be-all of earbuds. That, however, doesn't diminish the value of E100 in anyway - and certainly doesn't require E100 to be defended every time someone said (s)he doesn't consider E100 as a top-tier or better than MX980/985.
  


toom said:


> ... Is there some previous history with this reviewer I am not aware of?


 
  
 We are not allowed to discuss why forum member (*and yes, the reviewer used to be member here) get banned, but let say there is a reason for it.


----------



## Toom

clieos said:


> It is all but the same - what make you think your definition of musicality is right? Or what make your words more correct than mine, or vise versa? None, really. There is no absolute standard that defines what is 'technical' or 'musical' in our world. Each of us has our own explanation that comes from our own listening experience - and therefore each of us classifies 'technical' and 'musical' based what we believe in. That is, whether it is technical or musical, it is but a person's opinion. Now I have said it on the VE thread and I have said it again - the repeating argument itself is POINTLESS. We have all expressed our opinion, and that should be enough. Trying to disproof another person listening taste with your own is POINTLESS. If you have to jump out every time you read something you disagree with, then of course you have to expect people will want to defend themselves - but to what end? All you have done is nothing but going round and round. How can you argue that your listening preference is better than everyone else? At the end, we can only agree that there will be some people who agree with you, and some who don't. In this case, I'll say most (or I should say just 'more') of us are disagreeing with you. Again, live and let live.
> 
> Now I don't think anyone, even in this thread, has a problem with E100. It is by all mean a good earbud for the price. But a few of us certainly don't think of it as the end-all-be-all of earbuds. That, however, doesn't diminish the value of E100 in anyway - and certainly doesn't require E100 to be defended every time someone said (s)he doesn't consider E100 as a top-tier or better than MX980/985.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ah, so that explains why his review is being slammed. Thanks for the heads up.  Not knowing him (or her - but I doubt it), I consider it an accurate reflection of how I hear the E100 myself, but hey, I don't want to go on about the E100 because this is not the E100 appreciation thread, after all.  In that respect you are perfectly right to tell me not to keep praising the E100 so much here, in what is essentially your creation.
  
 But if you can humour me this one last time, I will bow out with a simple, definitive comment on the Earbells, for the record:
  
*THEY ROCK.*


----------



## RedJohn456

toom said:


> How can anyone dislike the E100 cable? Its one of the best cables I have ever seen.
> 
> As for the Headfonics review being hyperbolic - no, it's not.
> 
> With regards to the VE Zen, I would love to try them but they are too expensive and I dont own a portable amp any more. These 2 obstacles are not small, in my humble opinion. How much does an amp + Zen total?


 

 The Cable isn't as long as I would like and I am not a fan of the thick triangular cable because it gets caught on stuff and contorts. Small things but over time it adds up for me 
  
 Well, there is something to be said for remaining professional in reviews. Slamming all other brands and declaring that all other earbuds are overpriced and have to learn from the Baldoors is a bit hyperbolic don't you think? Seems pretty hyperbolic to me. But ymmv
  
 Well yes it is not a small obstacle. I have one portable amp a Fiio E17 that I pick up for 60 canadian dollars used at a shop. However, there are PLENTLY of portable amps in the sub 70 dollar range brand new that would do wonders for the Zen. Have you heard of the Topping NX1 or NX2? http://www.amazon.com/Topping-Portable-Earphone-Amplifier-Black/dp/B00HFMNR4M 
  
 Its 38 dollars at the moment and is the budget king   And this is just after 1 minute of searching. I am sure the good folks over at the Chinese iem and amps thread are more familiar with amps that are incredible for the price. As for the Zen price, yes they are not cheap. But that is not a valid reason to knock them, because that is completely disregarding what they are capable of. The price easily justified in my opinion, it compares VERY favoribly to some of my more expensive gear, many times its price. And as for the comment that not all of us are made of money, I don't know about you but I don't really spend my money or other things than audio at this point. I don't really go have expensive dinners outside or go out drinking or clubbing with friends. So I just use my disposable income towards this hobby   I even saw a post on reddit last night where someone ate ramen for two months to be able to afford the Aurisonics ASG 2.5 which costs 600-700 dollars. So its possible to save up right? 
  
 If you really want to give the Zen a fair chance, why don't you get yourself the Topping NX1 from amazon and sign up for the american Zen tour. If by the end you don't like the Zen you will be sending it on its way anyway so no harm done and can return the portable amp to amazon


----------



## Wokei

Good post RedJohn456


----------



## Toom

redjohn456 said:


> The Cable isn't as long as I would like and I am not a fat of the thick triangular cable because it gets caught on stuff and contorts. Small things but over time it adds up for me
> 
> Well, there is something to be said for remaining professional in reviews. Slamming all other brands and declaring that all other earbuds are overpriced and have to learn from the Baldoors is a bit hyperbolic don't you think? Seems pretty hyperbolic to me. But ymmv
> 
> ...


 
  
 I live in London, UK. If there's a UK tour as well, I'm in!   I'd love to trial the Zen, for sure.  Something tells me they are indeed rather special. 
  
 I guess I'm a little burned out on portable amps, having gone down that route in the past and finding them a right faff when out and about. But I'm prepared to start again if need be.


----------



## Ruben123

So some of you members already helped me - wanting the Earbells even more, but I still dont know I "need" them (which is sort of a problem because I could use the money for books or so).
  
 I have Sennheiser HD439, warm neutral sound. More warm than neutral, great for acoustic music while relaxing.
 Havi B3: flat FR, I think theyre too great for acoustic music. Why would anyone not want a flat FR.
 And a MP8320 for while on the streets. Neutral-bright sound, like it for symphonies etc.
  
 Do the E100s add something to this list? I listen mainly classical, acoustic (Bob Dylan etc.) and well I like Pink Floyd too.


----------



## gandroider

Hi All,
  
 I've just received Sennheiser MX985. I was kind-of.. surprise when I open the package and listened to. Not that it was damaged nor sound bad or something like that.
  
 But... It is not as I expected to be. As I am a very satisfied user of MX980, expecting this MX985 to be better in matter of packaging, built-quality and sound-quality.
  
 1st, The packaging:
  
 - It is a premium product. One of the best earbud packaging I've ever seen and experienced.... but compare to MX980, Still MX980 has the best one. (Sorry, forgot to take pictures or photos to compare both...)
  
 - Same as MX980, both was given a leather-pouch, flight adapter, 2 pairs of foam (standard, non-donut foam), clips, manuals etc.
  
  
 2nd, The build-quality:
  

  
 This is the MX985, as you can see the driver-housing looks neat and glossy. Difference occur on the volume-adjuster and the jack.
  
 Let's compare to what we have on MX980 below:
  

  
 On MX985, the driver-housing looks matte and has the same size with MX985. While the volume-adjuster looks and feels smaller than MX985. And the jacks, eventhough MX985 has better-looks I still prefer the MX980, because it has better protection to the cable. While MX985, if you keep on changing the jack from L-shaped to straight-shaped, it will wear-off the cable. This is only my personal opinion. Some-user will find this a non-problem.
  
  
 3rd, Sound quality:
  
 Comparing both the MX980 and MX985 do not really have any significant improvement, but only the low section. MX985 seems to have better impact in this area. Overall, both are the same.
  
  
 Conclusion:
  
 Well, I'm a bit disappointed to find that MX985 have no significant improvement compare to its older-brother the MX980. I was hoping that MX985 is much better (comparing its premium-price to MX980). But, both are very-beautiful sounding earbud whether you will use it with portable amplifier or direct with no-amplifier. No doubt, ClieOS classified this MX985 in to the Champion earbud. 
  
 What makes my day is, I am a proud owner of these great earbud from Sennheiser. I even contact and thanked their customer service by email to express my gratitude for their hard-work to create such a beutiful earbuds.
  
  
 Thank you ClieOS for your amazing thread, now I am still searching for Blox TM7. I want to listen to it so bad ... LOL


----------



## golov17

Thank you for an interesting comparison.


----------



## F900EX

It's a pitty Sennheiser did not try make the earbud shell smaller... otherwise it would be game over. It's always been the downside of the MX980, fantastic sound, but just never quite fit well in your ear.


----------



## Toom

ruben123 said:


> So some of you members already helped me - wanting the Earbells even more, but I still dont know I "need" them (which is sort of a problem because I could use the money for books or so).
> 
> I have Sennheiser HD439, warm neutral sound. More warm than neutral, great for acoustic music while relaxing.
> Havi B3: flat FR, I think theyre too great for acoustic music. Why would anyone not want a flat FR.
> ...




I love Dylan and he sound great through the E100s. But then so does anything I play. I have been listening to a lot of Radiohead recently, for example, and it's pretty mind-blowing how something as cheap as the Earbell can put a smile on my face like this.


----------



## Ruben123

toom said:


> I love Dylan and he sound great through the E100s. But then so does anything I play. I have been listening to a lot of Radiohead recently, for example, and it's pretty mind-blowing how something as cheap as the Earbell can put a smile on my face like this.




Well lets get them then! Thanks.


----------



## goldenSHK

Does anyone know where I can get some rubber donut covers (not foam, but silicon) like the ones in this post on the Blox earbuds? I feel like they would improve the sound a ton. Especially the bass. 

 http://www.head-fi.org/t/620467/blox-earbuds-discussion-tm7-m2c-anv3-be3-be5-be7/90#post_8642625


----------



## BloodyPenguin

goldenshk said:


> Does anyone know where I can get some rubber donut covers (not foam, but silicon) like the ones in this post on the Blox earbuds? I feel like they would improve the sound a ton. Especially the bass.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/620467/blox-earbuds-discussion-tm7-m2c-anv3-be3-be5-be7/90#post_8642625




Something like this?








http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32324321353.html

..


----------



## goldenSHK

bloodypenguin said:


> Something like this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes! Thanks, just bought.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

goldenshk said:


> Yes! Thanks, just bought.




Welcome. . Please let us know how they work out for you when you get them.

..


----------



## jay-w

I'm really missing my Blox while they are off in Thailand being repaired. 
  
 I went from 2 Blox, 2 Yuin, 1 Apple buds to nothing. Now my ears are hurting from wearing headphones and my ear canals are rebelling against my iems. I might just buy a cheap pair of Sony or Panasonic instore to tide me over. Note to self: remember your N+1 rule and always have a spare pair.


----------



## Toom

jay-w said:


> I'm really missing my Blox while they are off in Thailand being repaired.
> 
> I went from 2 Blox, 2 Yuin, 1 Apple buds to nothing. Now my ears are hurting from wearing headphones and my ear canals are rebelling against my iems. I might just buy a cheap pair of Sony or Panasonic instore to tide me over. Note to self: remember your N+1 rule and always have a spare pair.


 
  
 The N+1 rule is a good one! I must remember that myself.


----------



## golov17

I received today Powerbeats 湖西小筑DIY with Taobao. Very disappointed. The seller sent the defective goods. Right earphone plays perfectly on the left there is without bass and the sound is bad, worse than on the right earpiece. The risk is not justified, beware of DIY products.



Spoiler


----------



## hohohohi888

Can anyone who has the MX375 provide a brief review on its sound?
  
 Thanks


----------



## golov17

Conventional headphones with signature Sennheiser earbuds, not bad, but not something special. The cable is thin, the hull shape of the country. You can take.


----------



## kjk1281

hohohohi888 said:


> Can anyone who has the MX375 provide a brief review on its sound?
> 
> Thanks




The MX375 is a balanced, slightly dark earbud that's open-sounding and a touch dry. Its soundstage is more about depth than height or width. The Sennheisers are reasonably articulate but tend to get congested with more complicated passages. I like them overall but much prefer the slightly more expensive MX475 as it sounds cleaner and more linear.


----------



## jant71

kjk1281 said:


> The MX375 is a balanced, slightly dark earbud that's open-sounding and a touch dry. Its soundstage is more about depth than height or width. The Sennheisers are reasonably articulate but tend to get congested with more complicated passages. I like them overall but much prefer the slightly more expensive MX475 as it sounds cleaner and more linear.


 

 Would you happened to have ever heard the Sony E0921? How does it compare to the MX375?


----------



## golov17

Fans of bass and a U-shaped sound. Suvov S20 blue with an asymmetrical cable and volume control. S10 black, asymmetrical, without controller. Cheap and cheerful. 


Spoiler


----------



## golov17

S10 are vocal, a bit closer than the S20. S20 prettier sound at high frequencies. The timbre of the voice a natural and complete. Pleased with purchase. It is best to use a thin foam, thick bass a lot, IMHO.


----------



## jincuteguy

Very nice thread regarding earbuds.  It is very hard to find a thread like this dedicated to earbuds since everyone on the planet is doing IEMs.  
  
 So im looking for a high end earbuds (not IEM) and trying to decide between VE Zen, PK1, Senn MX985, and Dunu Alpha 1.  Which one out of these has more bass? 
 Also is the PK1 and MX985 came out 2 or 3 years ago? Any infos would be appreciated.


----------



## goldenSHK

jincuteguy said:


> Very nice thread regarding earbuds.  It is very hard to find a thread like this dedicated to earbuds since everyone on the planet is doing IEMs.
> 
> So im looking for a high end earbuds (not IEM) and trying to decide between VE Zen, PK1, Senn MX985, and Dunu Alpha 1.  Which one out of these has more bass?
> Also is the PK1 and MX985 came out 2 or 3 years ago? Any infos would be appreciated.


 
 Try the Blox BE3 or Blox BE7 as well. They have very good sound and are available on their website currently. Stocks are usually low so they sell out somewhat fast.


----------



## jincuteguy

goldenshk said:


> Try the Blox BE3 or Blox BE7 as well. They have very good sound and are available on their website currently. Stocks are usually low so they sell out somewhat fast.


 
 What about the Blox TM7? what happened to it? i don't see it on their website? Why are they only selling the cheap BE3 and BE7? 
 What about the Dunu Alpha 1 and Senn MX985? where can i buy the MX985? Can't find it anywhere except Ebay.


----------



## kjk1281

jant71 said:


> Would you happened to have ever heard the Sony E0921? How does it compare to the MX375?




The Sony is a touch more bassy and fuller sounding with a more aggressive, up-front presentation and V-shaped response. The Sennheiser is more open and spacious, slightly more neutral, and has better frequency extension, especially in the higher frequencies. Detail through the bass and mids are more or less similar between the two models, but the MX pulls ahead in treble resolution, though the E0921 has more of it.


----------



## Father Schu

Blox BE7 or VE zen?  You can only have one . . .


----------



## golov17

Amp, Not Amp..


----------



## Father Schu

Amped Zen or unAmped BE7??


----------



## jincuteguy

father schu said:


> Amped Zen or unAmped BE7??


 
 isn't the BE7 is cheaper?


----------



## golov17

Amped Zen


----------



## Singleton

_@jincuteguy: The Senn MX985 was discontinued sadly. It looks like ebay is the only place to get them as luckily for me I'd  managed to receive the __Senn MX985 as a Christmas present from my mum in 2013 where she was on a business trip mid to late 2013 to Tokyo and on her way back at Tokyo Narita Airport she bought two one for me and one for my little brother...._ *ahm* storytelling aside...._  ....idk for some unknown reason senn decided to discontinue the MX985 during 2014. _
  
_If i where you i'd quickly pick up a pair new on ebay before they disappear for good in the near future.  _


----------



## jincuteguy

singleton said:


> _@jincuteguy: The Senn MX985 was discontinued sadly. It looks like ebay is the only place to get them as luckily for me I'd  managed to receive the __Senn MX985 as a Christmas present from my mum in 2013 where she was on a business trip mid to late 2013 to Tokyo and on her way back at Tokyo Narita Airport she bought two one for me and one for my little brother...._ *ahm* storytelling aside...._  ....idk for some unknown reason senn decided to discontinue the MX985 during 2014. _
> 
> _If i where you i'd quickly pick up a pair new on ebay before they disappear for good in the near future.  _


 
 Hey thx for the infos.  But is the MX985 worth the price? Like is it worth it that I go ahead and buy it from Ebay? I mean I woulnd't mind if it's worth the price.
  
 Also someone mentioned that it has an inline microphone? but i just dont see anywhere that says it has a microphone?


----------



## Toom

jincuteguy said:


> Hey thx for the infos.  But is the MX985 worth the price? Like is it worth it that I go ahead and buy it from Ebay? I mean I woulnd't mind if it's worth the price.
> 
> Also someone mentioned that it has an inline microphone? but i just dont see anywhere that says it has a microphone?


 
  
 I wouldnt buy the MX985 again - I liked the pair I had, but the E100 spanks it roundly in sound, comfort and price.


----------



## Singleton

jincuteguy said:


> Hey thx for the infos.  But is the MX985 worth the price? Like is it worth it that I go ahead and buy it from Ebay? I mean I woulnd't mind if it's worth the price.
> 
> Also someone mentioned that it has an inline microphone? but i just dont see anywhere that says it has a microphone?


 
  
 The MX985 doesn't have a mic and the best price to get it for is around the $200 mark or less with shipping from a reputable  ebay seller.


----------



## kahaluu

The MX985 is definitely on my watch list.


----------



## Shawn71

kahaluu said:


> The MX985 is definitely on my watch list.


 
 same here......


----------



## gandroider

jincuteguy said:


> Hey thx for the infos.  But is the MX985 worth the price? Like is it worth it that I go ahead and buy it from Ebay? I mean I woulnd't mind if it's worth the price.
> 
> Also someone mentioned that it has an inline microphone? but i just dont see anywhere that says it has a microphone?


 
  
  
 Surely the MX985 is one of the best earbud ever existed. The only thing I regret owning one is.. it is on-par (in term of sound-quality) with its older brother the MX980. If you love earbuds, I think you should try or even own one of them. They are good even when unamped, once amped they're even better. Only Zen can surpass them... (according to my ears). Too bad I do not own Blox TM7 to compare... LOL
  
 And, no... the MX985 nor MX980 had any microphone in their line.
  
  


kahaluu said:


> The MX985 is definitely on my watch list.


 
  


shawn71 said:


> same here......


 
  
  
 MX985 already discontinued. Sennheiser confirmed they stop the production of MX985 in early 2014. I think you guys should hunt them soon. Once they depleted in stock, the price will soar high. I can see that now seller put USD 200-300 for a new one.


----------



## Shawn71

gandroider said:


> MX985 already discontinued. Sennheiser confirmed they stop the production of MX985 in early 2014. I think you guys should hunt them soon. Once they depleted in stock, the price will soar high. I can see that now seller put USD 200-300 for a new one.


 
 Yeah, ebay selling in that price range....is it still worth that price? may be get used ones in good condition immediately, if found......


----------



## knives

gandroider said:


> MX985 already discontinued. Sennheiser confirmed they stop the production of MX985 in early 2014. I think you guys should hunt them soon. Once they depleted in stock, the price will soar high. I can see that now seller put USD 200-300 for a new one.


 
 Only if Sennheiser doesn't release a new model in the future.


----------



## jincuteguy

gandroider said:


> Surely the MX985 is one of the best earbud ever existed. The only thing I regret owning one is.. it is on-par (in term of sound-quality) with its older brother the MX980. If you love earbuds, I think you should try or even own one of them. They are good even when unamped, once amped they're even better. Only Zen can surpass them... (according to my ears). Too bad I do not own Blox TM7 to compare... LOL
> 
> And, no... the MX985 nor MX980 had any microphone in their line.
> 
> ...


 
 Yea someone told me on here that the MX985 ones on Ebay are fake from China? So that's why I'm still skeptical if i should get one from Ebay.


----------



## gandroider

shawn71 said:


> Yeah, ebay selling in that price range....is it still worth that price? may be get used ones in good condition immediately, if found......


 
  
  
 Well... the word "*worth*" tend to subjective measure. If it is according to me, I'll think twice before buying one. Why? Because we have VE Zen now. With half-price of the MX985, you'll get a better earbud - when amped of course (it is also a subjective opinion, because I have tried both). MX985 still the best for unamped music experience. 
  
 But, if you're an earbud collector. Then price is not the burden... 
  
 At the end, if you can afford and find used one in good condition, why not? As long it's an authentic and original one, eh? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


jincuteguy said:


> Yea someone told me on here that the MX985 ones on Ebay are fake from China? So that's why I'm still skeptical if i should get one from Ebay.


 
  
 Amazon USA still have some in their stock... I think they're legit.
  
  


knives said:


> Only if Sennheiser doesn't release a new model in the future.


 
  
 Hopefully they will release a new one... maybe MX990? LOL...


----------



## jincuteguy

gandroider said:


> Well... the word "*worth*" tend to subjective measure. If it is according to me, I'll think twice before buying one. Why? Because we have VE Zen now. With half-price of the MX985, you'll get a better earbud - when amped of course (it is also a subjective opinion, because I have tried both). MX985 still the best for unamped music experience.
> 
> But, if you're an earbud collector. Then price is not the burden...
> 
> ...


 
 Where do you see they have from Amazon USA? I checked last night and they only have sellers from Korea.  LIke if I bought one right now through Amazon USA, they will ship from Korea from those Korean sellers.


----------



## kjk1281

I wouldn't buy from Amazon since all of the sellers are from outside the US. Of course, that makes sense since the MX985 was never officially released here in the first place.


----------



## golov17

sellers all from Korea?


----------



## jincuteguy

golov17 said:


> sellers all from Korea?


 
 Yea they're all from Korea.  That's why i didn't buy


----------



## gandroider

jincuteguy said:


> Where do you see they have from Amazon USA? I checked last night and they only have sellers from Korea.  LIke if I bought one right now through Amazon USA, they will ship from Korea from those Korean sellers.


 
  
 I just have a look from http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-MX-985-In-Ear-Headphones/dp/B00D5P6RNG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1432046930&sr=8-1&keywords=mx985


----------



## god-bluff

Crazy prices IMO. Limited or poor seller feedback and what are all those MX985s doing in Korea and only Korea ?  Have they been made in the North ? Kim Jong Un's latest way of bringing in the much needed western capital ? A bit fishy but i might / probably be wrong.


----------



## god-bluff

One things for sure based on this speculatioon I gave my MX980s away. Only got 50 quid for them from the only bidder who was interested in them at the time. Any way got my Airjax brand new for lessthan that  so okay in long run.


----------



## kahaluu

gandroider said:


> I just have a look from http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-MX-985-In-Ear-Headphones/dp/B00D5P6RNG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1432046930&sr=8-1&keywords=mx985


 
 All the sellers from Amazon and eBay are from Korea. No U.S. sellers.


----------



## jincuteguy

396629 said:


> Crazy prices IMO. Limited or poor seller feedback and what are all those MX985s doing in Korea and only Korea ?  Have they been made in the North ? Kim Jong Un's latest way of bringing in the much needed western capital ? A bit fishy but i might / probably be wrong.


 
 Ya I don't know.  That's why I didn't buy.


----------



## Toom

Got mine from here;
  
 http://www.rubadub.co.uk/sennheiser-omx980-metal-crafted-over-ear-headphones-w-volume-control-502872?gclid=CMiSyMGZzsUCFQEXwwodUK4AtA


----------



## ClieOS

Be very worry about MX985 / 980 from China, or any close proximity of China. Do note that it is one of the most counterfeited models in Sennheiser line-up after IE8/80/800 in China.


----------



## Toom

clieos said:


> Be very worry about MX985 / 980 from China, or any close proximity of China. Do note that it is one of the most counterfeited models in Sennheiser line-up after IE8/80/800 in China.


 
  
 The ones I linked to above came from Scotland.  Is that too close to China?


----------



## god-bluff

£75 - that's more like it and for the genuine article albeit OMX version. Tempting.
  
 Good Find.


----------



## god-bluff

There were similar deals not so long ago on the CM700ti and their earhook derivative, from Audio Affair I think.
  
 That's one earbud that's alluded me Wanted them since seeing them compared to the SE315, PFR-V1, Klipsch X10 and IE8 (a very odd line up !) in a Hifi mag a few years ago
  
 They came out tops. Could kick myself for not getting them..


----------



## jincuteguy

toom said:


> The ones I linked to above came from Scotland.  Is that too close to China?


 
 Anyone knows anything about the Blox BE7? Like where are they located at? US?


----------



## kahaluu

clieos said:


> Be very worry about MX985 / 980 from China, or any close proximity of China. Do note that it is one of the most counterfeited models in Sennheiser line-up after IE8/80/800 in China.


 
 Thanks for the heads up. It doesn't look to promising in purchasing these now without an authorized dealer. It seems like you're taking a big risk, since it's one of the most counterfeited model in the Sennheiser lineup. I already had a bad experience a while back with a counterfeit IE8.


----------



## god-bluff

kahaluu said:


> Thanks for the heads up. It doesn't look to promising in purchasing these now without an authorized dealer. It seems like you're taking a big risk, since it's one of the most counterfeited model in the Sennheiser lineup. I already had a bad experience a while back with a counterfeit IE8.


 
 Well if you really want a pair of real (omx) 980s why don't you try the Glasgow company 'Rubadub' as per Toom's link. They take PayPal and might sell overseas, worth a try ?


----------



## golov17

jincuteguy said:


> Anyone knows anything about the Blox BE7? Like where are they located at? US?


Thailand


----------



## kahaluu

396629 said:


> Well if you really want a pair of real (omx) 980s why don't you try the Glasgow company 'Rubadub' as per Toom's link. They take PayPal and might sell overseas, worth a try ?


 
 I'm not interested in the 980's. Interested in the MX985's.


----------



## god-bluff

Same headphone except volume control integrated into splitter, different jack and carrying case.  But fine; each to their own


----------



## Singleton

> Originally Posted by *gandroider* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> MX985 already discontinued. Sennheiser confirmed they stop the production of MX985 in early 2014. I think you guys should hunt them soon. Once they depleted in stock, the price will soar high. I can see that now seller put USD 200-300 for a new one.


 
 My guess is that senn decided to do a limited production run of the MX985. This means that the MX985 will become a rare earbud gem in the near future and possibly be a classic audio equipment who knows but only time would tell the MX985's fate decades later.


----------



## jincuteguy

singleton said:


> My guess is that senn decided to do a limited production run of the MX985. This means that the MX985 will become a rare earbud gem in the near future and possibly be a classic audio equipment who knows but only time would tell the MX985's fate decades later.


 
 But as of right now, you can't buy the MX985 anymore, only fake ones on Amazon and Ebay.  So it's already too late now if you're looking for the MX985.
 I don't see anywhere else that still selling a legit MX985 anymore.


----------



## golov17

link


----------



## jincuteguy

golov17 said:


> link


 
 What's this? That's not Sennheiser MX985


----------



## god-bluff

Its the very nice MX980 outer case put to good use I believe. Looks good. My GS Voyager would never fit but a Ricoh camera case works.


----------



## rymd

If you want that OMX980, you can go for their B-stock version as well, which costs 6 GBP less. When I emailed them to ask what that meant, they said


> B Stock would be a return or maybe damaged packaging but in this case the B Stock ones we have are 100% new.  They were end of line and instead of us discounting them Sennheiser asked us to list them as B Stock so you can buy the B Stock one at the cheaper price and still get a brand new set.  Slightly confusing I know but that's how they asked us to list them!


 
  
 Maybe you don't trust that... but I'm taking the risk anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 http://www.rubadub.co.uk/sennheiser-omx980-metal-crafted-over-ear-headphones-w-volume-control-b-stock-502872
  
 nvm, I think I just got their last one marked as B stock. But if you're outside the UK, the actual price for the regular OMX980 is actually 62.50 GBP, not 75 which includes tax. You'll see the actual price when you enter your address. with shipping included, it's only around $108 USD which is still a great price.


----------



## knives

I was thinking in getting the Tingo TC200 for $50, but instead of taking this risk i decided that it is safer to pay 3x more and buy a MX985 from shenzhenaudio, a store that i believe be a reputable seller.
 Now i will wait hopping that i will not receive a fake one.


----------



## jincuteguy

knives said:


> I was thinking in getting the Tingo TC200 for $50, but instead of taking this risk i decided that it is safer to pay 3x more and buy a MX985 from shenzhenaudio, a store that i believe be a reputable seller.
> Now i will wait hopping that i will not receive a fake one.


 
 Where is Shenzhenaudio?
  
 I don't see any MX985 on Shenzhen audio at all.


----------



## knives

jincuteguy said:


> Where is Shenzhenaudio?


 
 www.shenzhenaudio.com


----------



## ClieOS

Since we are talking about TC200 - I already got one. While it is a pretty good earbud, I can say in certainty the it is not on the same level as MX985 (no surprise here, I guess).
  
 Also got Musa SP2 (*the red transparent one is SP2, black normal housing is SP1) and Sidy / BGVP KT100, though haven't really had time to listen to them yet. Also incoming are the Soundmaigc EP30 and Sovov S20, but they probably won't be here by end of next week/


----------



## knives

jincuteguy said:


> Where is Shenzhenaudio?
> 
> I don't see any MX985 on Shenzhen audio at all.


 
 I believe that i bought the last one.


clieos said:


> Since we are talking about TC200 - I already got one. While it is a pretty good earbud, I can say in certainty the it is not on the same level as MX985 (no surprise here, I guess).
> 
> Also got Musa SP2 (*the red transparent one is SP2, black normal housing is SP1) and Sidy / BGVP KT100, though haven't really had time to listen to them yet. Also incoming are the Soundmaigc EP30 and Sovov S20, but they probably won't be here by end of next week/


 
 In The Great category? better than Asura, E100 and E600?


----------



## golov17

knives said:


> www.shenzhenaudio.com


There not mx980,985, only mx880 for $92.98


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> Also got Musa SP2 (*the red transparent one is SP2, black normal housing is SP1) and Sidy / BGVP KT100, though haven't really had time to listen to them yet. Also incoming are the Soundmaigc EP30 and Sovov S20, but they probably won't be here by end of next week/


We are looking forward to your resume to them all.


----------



## jincuteguy

So who else just bought the Zen and loving it so far?


----------



## golov17

You doubt about Zen? They are worth every dollar, IMHO (with amplifier).


----------



## ClieOS

knives said:


> In The Great category? better than Asura, E100 and E600?


 
  
 For now, probably somewhere in between. Will need to burn it in first before I give it a good listen.


----------



## golov17

Spoiler: TC200









Spoiler: MX980


----------



## golov17

Tomahawk MR Z I think this is a birds of a feather.


----------



## gandroider

Anybody have information about reputable online seller for

Panasonic HJ329
Pioneer SE-CE521

Especially with available stock, been searching some store on taobao with no result.

Thanks


----------



## golov17

Panasonic on Taobao


----------



## BloodyPenguin

gandroider said:


> Anybody have information about reputable online seller for
> 
> Panasonic HJ329
> Pioneer SE-CE521
> ...




How about eBay for the Pioneer SE-CE521? 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=Pioneer+SE-CE521&_sop=15

..


----------



## golov17

Pioneer eBay


----------



## satansmutt

I got a pair of Pioneer SE-CE521( black) a couple of months ago on Amazon uk site for as little as £8.50 if that's any help


----------



## BloodyPenguin

clieos said:


> Since we are talking about TC200.
> 
> Also got Musa SP2 (*the red transparent one is SP2, black normal housing is SP1) and Sidy / BGVP KT100, though haven't really had time to listen to them yet. Also incoming are the Soundmaigc EP30 and Sovov S20, but they probably won't be here by end of next week/




Do you have links for the Musa SP2 and Sovov S20? I did a Google search but some how ended up on some Asian site for buying a wife I think. Think it is best if I do not search anymore.


----------



## golov17

Suvov S20 only on Taobao


----------



## ClieOS

bloodypenguin said:


> Do you have links for the Musa SP2 and Sovov S20? I did a Google search but some how ended up on some Asian site for buying a wife I think. Think it is best if I do not search anymore.


 
  
 I bought them straight from Taobao and use a forwarding service.


----------



## golov17

Lee told me about the successful testing of the new VE Monk! Our congratulations and look forward to the start of sales


----------



## tukangketik

bloodypenguin said:


> clieos said:
> 
> 
> > Do you have links for the Musa SP2 and Sovov S20? I did a Google search but some how ended up on some Asian site for buying a wife I think. Think it is best if I do not search anymore.
> ...


----------



## ClieOS

Unless you really just want to try it out, my personal opinion is that TC200 can be skipped. There is really nothing particularly special about its sound.


----------



## jincuteguy

clieos said:


> Unless you really just want to try it out, my personal opinion is that TC200 can be skipped. There is really nothing particularly special about its sound.


 
 So is there anything else better than Zen atm?


----------



## goldenSHK

jincuteguy said:


> So is there anything else better than Zen atm?


 
 I haven't heard the Zen keep in mind, but the new Blox earbuds seem to be very very comparable in terms of quality by everyone else who seems to have both to compare.


----------



## ClieOS

jincuteguy said:


> So is there anything else better than Zen atm?


 
  
 Nothing as far as I know. I am however waiting for the new Blox, though it is hard to say when they will release it...


----------



## golov17

The simplest mod Vsonic uu2. Everything on the latches understand and increase the hole in the body thin screwdriver. The result is a little less tedious sound.


Spoiler


----------



## jincuteguy

clieos said:


> Nothing as far as I know. I am however waiting for the new Blox, though it is hard to say when they will release it...


 
 How is the Zen compare to the Yuin PK1? I thought PK1 was pretty good already. Can the Zen annihiliated it?


----------



## ClieOS

jincuteguy said:


> How is the Zen compare to the Yuin PK1? I thought PK1 was pretty good already. Can the Zen annihiliated it?


 
  
 Annihilate? Not sure that's the word I will use. But IMO, PK1 can't touch a well driven Zen.
  
  
 On unrelated news: just order a pair of Sony STH30 as well. Just interested to know how a Sony's clone of earpod might sound like...


----------



## golov17

I never tried earpods, how they fit into your ears? Recently ClieOS got a lot of new earbuds. We are waiting for updates and additions to your rankings? I think all this is very interesting.


----------



## kjk1281

clieos said:


> On unrelated news: just order a pair of Sony STH30 as well. Just interested to know how a Sony's clone of earpod might sound like...




Nice! Interested in the comparison.

Also looking forward to the SoundMAGIC EP30 to see if they're better than their lower-end brethren. I have the EP10 and EP20. The latter is decent but the former is pretty bad.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Curious about the SoundMAGIC EP30 as well.

I just ordered the MEIZU PT850 and Awei ES12i for a total of less than $10. Budget buys.

..


----------



## golov17

I have AWEI ES12, they do not like the bass, as the famous ES10, but have a very pleasant sound with natural tones.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> I have AWEI ES12, they do not like the bass, as the famous ES10, but have a very pleasant sound with natural tones.




To be honest, I really do enjoy the fun bass on the ES10, and needed a cheap earbud when I walk to work that could get rained on and thrown around, so I thought I would try out the cheap ES12i.

..


----------



## jincuteguy

What is the best earbuds that is under $50?


----------



## gandroider

bloodypenguin said:


> I just ordered the *MEIZU PT850* and Awei ES12i for a total of less than $10. Budget buys.
> 
> ..


 
  
 Hi BloodyPenguin,
  
 How's your review on the Meizu PT850? Is it veiled or not? I'm about to throw some cash to purchase it. Because it is cheap.. LOL
  
  


jincuteguy said:


> What is the best earbuds that is under $50?


 
  
 For me, the Blox M2C.
 But, reading some review here about Baldoor E100, I may also try it.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

gandroider said:


> Hi BloodyPenguin,
> 
> How's your review on the Meizu PT850? Is it veiled or not? I'm about to throw some cash to purchase it. Because it is cheap.. LOL




Yeah, that is why I got it, because it was cheap and I needed a pair I could just beat up on.

I'll let you know how they are when I get them in a week or so.

..


----------



## golov17

Spoiler: Meizu EP20


----------



## gandroider

golov17 said:


> Spoiler: Meizu EP21


 
  
 Hi golov,
  
 Have you compare this to Meizu EP10 or PT850?
  
 And thanks to your message, looking forward to contact the seller..


----------



## golov17

This is better than the EP10, but there are low-pass filter from 50Hz (EP20)


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> I never tried earpods, how they fit into your ears? Recently ClieOS got a lot of new earbuds. We are waiting for updates and additions to your rankings? I think all this is very interesting.


 
  
 Earpod has a great fit. Apple might not know to make great sounding stock earphone, but they usually get the engineering / ergonomics right.
  


kjk1281 said:


> Nice! Interested in the comparison.
> 
> Also looking forward to the SoundMAGIC EP30 to see if they're better than their lower-end brethren. I have the EP10 and EP20. The latter is decent but the former is pretty bad.


 
  
 From track record, I won't expect too much from SoundMAGIC to compete against the best of the best, but hopefully it will be decent enough. Fingers crossed.


----------



## golov17

Meizu EP20 



Spoiler


----------



## golov17

In any case, I ordered Meizu EP21HD 128 Ohm 20Hz-20kHz, will compare with other high-impedance earbuds.


----------



## waynes world

golov17 said:


> Meizu EP20
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler




What the heck is that graph?


----------



## golov17

The dependence of the resistance to the frequency.


----------



## golov17

Spoiler: DUNU EX150






Not bad, interesting light sound. It needs amplifier. Lovers bass pass by.


----------



## jincuteguy

Just checked my Zen shipping tracking, and....
  

2015-05-19  16:55:00SHENYANG Posting  2015-05-19  17:44:38SHENYANG Despatch from Sorting Center  2015-05-19  19:09:55SHENYANG Arrival at Sorting Center  2015-05-19  20:39:40SHENYANG Despatch from Sorting Center  2015-05-22  13:39:00UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ISC SAN FRANCISCO EPACKET Arrival at Sorting Center  
 Now it's been exactly 1 week since I ordered it.  And I still haven't got it yet


----------



## Toom

One week! We should launch an international investigation with teams working shifts.


----------



## jincuteguy

toom said:


> One week! We should launch an international investigation with teams working shifts.


 
 What do you mean? Take too long? or too short?


----------



## RedJohn456

jincuteguy said:


> What do you mean? Take too long? or too short?


 

 too short  He's just being sarcastic haha


----------



## golov17

Its fast ship


----------



## golov17

golov17 said:


> Spoiler: DUNU EX150
> 
> 
> 
> ...



P.S. Burn-in is recommended. After 10 hours, a marked improvement.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> In any case, I ordered Meizu EP21HD 128 Ohm 20Hz-20kHz, will compare with other high-impedance earbuds.




One of the many Earbuds I'm curious about.


----------



## golov17

Cresyn c500e Korean sound for $20


Spoiler


----------



## Tarnum

@golov17 : how's about its sound ? compared to Mrice E100 ? 
 I just heard once without foam and the bass is not enough for me....
 Anyway, housing build quality is superb.


----------



## golov17

E100>c500e


----------



## golov17

Spoiler: Cresyn AXE4






I like This..


----------



## Singleton

golov17 said:


> Spoiler: Cresyn AXE4
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Interesting choice... ...would you care to please elaborate on why do you like the Cresyn AXE4?


----------



## golov17

Well, their sound is similar to the Blue ever Blue 328R, but the diameter of the membrane more convenient to my ears. It is more relaxing sound, with the original taste. Listening without foams, since the fine details of music can only be heard without them.


----------



## Singleton

golov17 said:


> Well, their sound is similar to the Blue ever Blue 328R, but the diameter of the membrane more convenient to my ears. It is more relaxing sound, with the original taste. Listening without foams, since the fine details of music can only be heard without them.


 
 Valid point and thank you for giving a honest opinion in your elaboration 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  ^+1


----------



## golov17

Also, I paid for them no more than $ 10, and for the price they are interesting.


----------



## Singleton

golov17 said:


> Also, I paid for them no more than $ 10, and for the price they are interesting.


 
  
 Would you please provide me with a link to where you have purchased this product? Thanks


----------



## golov17

Unfortunately not. They sell it only within my country Russia. Sorry.


----------



## golov17

Spoiler: Skullcandy FIX BUDS






http://m.ebay.com/itm/271528592271?_mwBanner=1
Seller refurbished $6.99 on eBay


----------



## ClieOS

singleton said:


> Would you please provide me with a link to where you have purchased this product? Thanks


 
  
 It can be found on eBay.
  


golov17 said:


> Spoiler: Skullcandy FIX BUDS
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yike...


----------



## golov17

Yike...:confused_face: 
[/quote] 



Spoiler


----------



## Singleton

clieos said:


> It can be found on eBay.
> 
> 
> Yike...


 
  
 Thanks


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> I have AWEI ES12, they do not like the bass, as the famous ES10, but have a very pleasant sound with natural tones.


 
 Got the Awei ES12i today.  Not as good as the ES10 at all.  Not fun, not engaging.  So I am selling it to my co-worker.
  
 Money would be better spent getting the VE Monk when it comes out.


----------



## The Dan of Steel

Has anyone been able to try the Meizu EP21HD? The 128 ohm version?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

the dan of steel said:


> Has anyone been able to try the Meizu EP21HD? The 128 ohm version?


 
 I know golov17 ordered one.  I am sure he will review once he gets it.
  
 I'm very curious about it as well.
  
 ..


----------



## The Dan of Steel

bloodypenguin said:


> I know golov17 ordered one.  I am sure he will review once he gets it.
> 
> I'm very curious about it as well.
> 
> ..


 
 Looks to be tough to get the 128ohm version as comments on the that one still state they received 32 ohm ones.


----------



## golov17

I took  a chance and ordered . In a letter to the seller promises that this is a genuine EP21HD. We'll see.
Original Meizu EP21HD link


----------



## ClieOS

Just received the SoundMAGIC EP30 and Sovov S20. I'll say both are pretty good overall, quite comparable to the Sidy KT-100 I received awhile back, should have no problem finding themselves in the great category.


----------



## golov17

http://m.johnlewis.com/mt/www.johnlewis.com/store/happy-plugs-earbud/p1787261?sku=234144934&colour=Silver&isd2c=false&isClicked=true&un_jtt_v_dummy=yes#page_loaded
What is it?


----------



## B9Scrambler

golov17 said:


> http://m.johnlewis.com/mt/www.johnlewis.com/store/happy-plugs-earbud/p1787261?sku=234144934&colour=Silver&isd2c=false&isClicked=true&un_jtt_v_dummy=yes#page_loaded
> What is it?




Most likely a waste of time. I see those for sale all the time here in Ontario, Canada for around 10-15 CAD. Haven't tried them yet, but given they appear in big box stores at such a low price, probably not worth.


----------



## golov17

Thanks.


----------



## golov17

beta Asura are unique to me. I impressed them a lot so far. Hopefully brother Lee will release their sale without changing their signature sound.


----------



## RedJohn456

golov17 said:


> beta Asura are unique to me. I impressed them a lot so far. Hopefully brother Lee will release their sale without changing their signature sound.


 

 It has already been confirmed that is has been tweaked a bit I think, more in line with the Zen, atleast I remember reading that in the Zen thread.


----------



## RedJohn456

b9scrambler said:


> Most likely a waste of time. I see those for sale all the time here in Ontario, Canada for around 10-15 CAD. Haven't tried them yet, but given they appear in big box stores at such a low price, probably not worth.


 

 B9 you a canuck? Are you from Toronto as well?


----------



## B9Scrambler

redjohn456 said:


> B9 you a canuck? Are you from Toronto as well?




London actually  

- Canada's London, lol


----------



## jincuteguy

Anyone in here has both the ASG-2.5 and Zen ?


----------



## tukangketik

jincuteguy said:


> Anyone in here has both the ASG-2.5 and Zen ?




I think @mochill have them.


----------



## mochill

asg1plus and Zen


----------



## mochill

zen has more bass , but thats with 600hrs of burn in and ultra thin foam pad


----------



## jincuteguy

mochill said:


> zen has more bass , but thats with 600hrs of burn in and ultra thin foam pad


 
 Damn really Zen has more bass? I thought ASG1Plus or most ASG from Aurisonics are already Bass heavy.


----------



## mochill

the asg1,1.5,2,2.5 are the bassier version and the most neutral of the asg line is the one plus , that why I wanted it and love it . They still have bass but not overly exaggerated but in a true realistic way


----------



## jincuteguy

mochill said:


> the asg1,1.5,2,2.5 are the bassier version and the most neutral of the asg line is the one plus , that why I wanted it and love it . They still have bass but not overly exaggerated but in a true realistic way


 
 Do you know where I can get some Red Color Earbud Foam tips that is high quality?


----------



## mochill

http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-Pcs-Red-Replacement-Foam-Ear-Cushions-Sponge-Earpads-for-Earbuds-Headphones/221371999258?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D777000%26algo%3DABA.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D31236%26meid%3D40127d03256c4424b75ec04d3ff1384b%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D321321200509

Check it out


----------



## BloodyPenguin

mochill said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/221371999258
> 
> Check it out


 
  
 Can we confirm those are High Quality?
  
  
 BTW, I bought some red foams and about half were broken, so don't buy from here:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/121538550967
  
 ..


----------



## fnkcow

clieos said:


> On unrelated news: just order a pair of Sony STH30 as well. Just interested to know how a Sony's clone of earpod might sound like...


 
  
 Interesting...
  
 Which reminds me of Amazon's own version of the earpod:
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HX0SRXW
  
 Anyone tried it before?
 Wanted to try it out but unfortunately they don't ship to here


----------



## mochill

I never bought earpads.....so I dont know about quality.. But I know heigi earpads are awesome


----------



## jincuteguy

mochill said:


> I never bought earpads.....so I dont know about quality.. But I know heigi earpads are awesome


 
 Does Heigi make earbud foam? Or only silicon tips for IEM?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

jincuteguy said:


> Does Heigi make earbud foam? Or only silicon tips for IEM?


 
 Foam Covers from HIeGI:
  
 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CBTOMV6/
  
 http://penonaudio.com/Hiegi-White-Foam-Cushions
  
 ..


----------



## mochill

Thank you penguin


----------



## golov17

More Hiegi, http://m.shenzhenaudio.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=Hiegi


----------



## golov17

Good foames, http://ru.aliexpress.com/item/No-Tracking-New-100PCS-Earphone-Sponge-Plug-Soft-Foam-Ear-Pad-Earphone-Cover/32234182195.html


----------



## kjk1281

There needs to be an ongoing survey of earbud foams. Thanks to everybody for posting the better examples as there's way too much crap available on eBay and elsewhere.

Another option here in the US is the EP 01-EP. These were actually drop shipped from Sennheiser when I ordered them which explains why delivery takes a while.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1044928-REG/sennheiser_ep_01_ep_spare_ear_pads_ep.html


----------



## ClieOS

fnkcow said:


> Interesting...
> 
> Which reminds me of Amazon's own version of the earpod:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HX0SRXW
> ...


 
  
 Received the STH30 yesterday actually. So far, nothing really stands out. Perhaps just a little better than earpod but still remains in the Good category for the most part. Just another 'nothing to be missed even when not tried' kind of offering.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

***Earhoox Discount**  *
  
 Been a lot of talk about the Earhoox on the earbud threads lately.
  
 So I got in contact with Derrick at Earhoox and he said he could do a limited time, exclusive deal for JUST us Head-Fiers.
  
 Now through June 12th you can get *50% Off* of your ENTIRE order with the coupon code:  *Headfiers50*
  
*www.earhoox.com/shop*
  
  
           
  
  
 ..


----------



## Father Schu

Do these really work to keep the earbuds secure and in the right position, and are they comfortable?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

father schu said:


> Do these really work to keep the earbuds secure and in the right position, and are they comfortable?




I'll let you know soon, I have a set on the way.

..


----------



## The Dan of Steel

bloodypenguin said:


> I'll let you know soon, I have a set on the way.
> 
> ..



I should get mine tomorrow, thanks for the discount. They're about a 2 hour drive away but takes two days by mail lol.


----------



## RedJohn456

the dan of steel said:


> I should get mine tomorrow, thanks for the discount. They're about a 2 hour drive away but takes two days by mail lol.


 

 let me know how well it works with the zens   Btw you planning to get the RunAround amp for the zen?


----------



## The Dan of Steel

redjohn456 said:


> let me know how well it works with the zens   Btw you planning to get the RunAround amp for the zen?


I'm avidly following their FB posts. A little set back with that battery issue but they just redesigned the board and back in business. Can't wait!


----------



## jincuteguy

redjohn456 said:


> let me know how well it works with the zens   Btw you planning to get the RunAround amp for the zen?


 
 I bought the Earhoox couple days for my Zen.  They keep slipping off the earbuds when I put them in my ears.  So I dont think it's a good product.  I'm not using them anymore, just using the regular foam tips now.


----------



## golov17

I think it depends on the shape of the ears. For someone running and someone does not fit.


----------



## jincuteguy

Also, if anyone is interested in buying the Zen, I only used mine for couple days.  I will give you a much lower price and will give you the Earhoox free and about 20 pairs of Foam Tips all for free.  
  
 PM me if you're interested.


----------



## golov17

http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=a1z5f.7632060.0.0&id=42513796502
"Musa SP2 RED" Do the owners? Worth buying? Any thoughts, please.


----------



## RedJohn456

the dan of steel said:


> I'm avidly following their FB posts. A little set back with that battery issue but they just redesigned the board and back in business. Can't wait!


 
  
 Yes same, but the amp seems to have come along well and the charging thing is the last thing to sort out. Cant wait to see how it plays with the zen and all my gear
  


jincuteguy said:


> I bought the Earhoox couple days for my Zen.  They keep slipping off the earbuds when I put them in my ears.  So I dont think it's a good product.  I'm not using them anymore, just using the regular foam tips now.


 

 Thanks, might pass on them then


----------



## golov17

b9scrambler said:


> London actually
> 
> - Canada's London, lol


 a country of warm beer and cold women? Lol


----------



## golov17

Now I can buy new earbuds Audio-Technica ATH-EC7GM for $ 140. Somebody tell about their signature sound, I will be grateful to anyone who knows something. Thank you.


----------



## kjk1281

golov17 said:


> a country of warm beer and cold women? Lol




It's the birthplace of the Hawaiian Pizza.



golov17 said:


> Now I can buy new earbuds Audio-Technica ATH-EC7GM for $ 140. Somebody tell about their signature sound, I will be grateful to anyone who knows something. Thank you.




Haven't tried them, but I would just warn you to be careful of where or who you're buying them from. I'm nervous because there are way too many fake Audio-Technica earbuds out there, and the EC7 has been discontinued for a while now.


----------



## golov17

Haha, pizza  And about the headphones, they kind of in Russia, a large dealer serious, OZON.RU. I've never had any problems from them in the past. Hopefully, now would also be good.


----------



## golov17

ATH-EC7 removed
PS. I canceled the order, they did not send me a detailed picture when I asked. I do not want to run a fake.


----------



## The Dan of Steel

The good news is the Earhoox come two sets per package, which I didn't expect. Bad news is I now have 4 pairs of something I can't use. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I think it's just the shape of my ear maybe and the fins are just too big? My left ear just won't accept them. I love the idea of these and I bought 2 sets (1 black and 1 white) but they will go unused unfortunately. Can't really fit foams over them either without some modification. So... I can't get a decent seal and they hurt my left ear.


----------



## jant71

Too big but there are two sizes(or should be). Yes, the large is pretty huge and useless but the smaller works for me(they need a medium size, IMO). Of course they work both ways so try with both the crest pointing forward and backward as one way will probably/possibly work better than the other.


----------



## The Dan of Steel

jant71 said:


> Too big but there are two sizes(or should be). Yes, the large is pretty huge and useless but the smaller works for me(they need a medium size, IMO). Of course they work both ways so try with both the crest pointing forward and backward as one way will probably/possibly work better than the other.


 
 You know what, you are right I am an idiot and didn't see the size difference. I'll try those instead!
  
 Edit: Much better fit for me with the small but I feel like they make them sit just outside of where they sit with foams and just feels farther away. Like suspended outside of my ear instead of just pressing against the canal.


----------



## jant71

Hopefully you'll get them to work out.


----------



## mochill

Small fits great , sound good to


----------



## golov17

Authentic ATH EC7 vs replicas for information.



Spoiler


----------



## mochill

King of buds are zen


----------



## jincuteguy

jant71 said:


> Too big but there are two sizes(or should be). Yes, the large is pretty huge and useless but the smaller works for me(they need a medium size, IMO). Of course they work both ways so try with both the crest pointing forward and backward as one way will probably/possibly work better than the other.


 
 What you mean 2 sizes? It comes with 2 different sizes?


----------



## sbose

@ClieOS
 between BALDOOR E100 and JiuShao E600 which is better overall ?


----------



## abaynp

golov17 said:


> http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=a1z5f.7632060.0.0&id=42513796502
> "Musa SP2 RED" Do the owners? Worth buying? Any thoughts, please.


 

 just give it a tray, warm-balance signature


----------



## abaynp

golov17 said:


> "Musa SP2 RED" Do the owners? Worth buying? Any thoughts, please.


 
 just give it a try, warm balance signature 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm waiting EP21HD review


----------



## golov17

He left the customs. Soon.


----------



## ClieOS

sbose said:


> @ClieOS
> between BALDOOR E100 and JiuShao E600 which is better overall ?


 
  
 On that first page, mate.


----------



## mochill

Where will the kt100 be ranked


----------



## golov17

However, where the rest: the category The Great


----------



## jant71

jincuteguy said:


> What you mean 2 sizes? It comes with 2 different sizes?


 

 Yes, like in this pic I just grabbed off Google images...


----------



## jincuteguy

If anyone looking for the new  VE Zen ( best earbuds period), I am selling it on the Sale thread right now, will ship from CAlifornia.  I also throw in 20pairs of Earbud foam tips and 2 pairs of Earhoox.  Only used the Zen for couple days.
  
 You can check out my Sale thread or PM me if you're interested in the Zen.


----------



## Raketen

Been meaning to try a modern earbud.... a lot of the recommendations here like VE and Sunrise are a little hard to find. Would try Blox but can't do long shipping wait atm. Not sure I want to fiddle with amping Zen, can't find VE Asura anywhere.
  
Looking for some up-to date RAPID FIRE recommendation beyond clie's ranking;  which of the following (which appear to be readily available from amazon/penon/etc) would anyone recommend- Senn 365 vs 375 vs 475 vs 575? Hisound PAA Pro // Audio-Technica CM707 vs EC707? Creative Aurvana Air // Yuin PK2
  
Maybe better to get some cheapo 365, to see if I will use earbuds at all, and then get a pricy model like an Alpha, Zen, PK1 or Gramo One later?
  
I ususally like flat/bright signatures, but wouldn't mind a warm/bassy sig for an earbud.
  
 Well nevermind, got a good price on the cm707 & don't have to wait for import, hopefully not too bad


----------



## JK1

golov17 said:


> Now I can buy new earbuds Audio-Technica ATH-EC7GM for $ 140. Somebody tell about their signature sound, I will be grateful to anyone who knows something. Thank you.


 
 That seems very expensive for earbuds with hooks. I like the JVC HA-EB75 earbuds with hooks. It is under $13 and has decent enough highs and midrange for when I am active. For the price it is a great deal. As for the bass, I boost the bass 8 db on the player, and the bass is decent enough while I am active. I keep the volume low so I can still hear my surroundings. I haven't tried the Sennheiser earbuds with ear hooks, as those would have been the next to try if the HA-EB75 didn't satisfy me. I believe those go from around $28 to $70 or so? I bought the Panasonic RP-HS16 and didn't like the sound. I also bought the Panasonic RP-HS 33 and found it slightly better sounding than the JVC HA-EB75(but also bass deficient). The HS33 has a non adjustable ear hook though, and it is much too large for my ears.


----------



## golov17

Meizu EP21HD 128 Ohm


Spoiler


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> Meizu EP21HD 128 Ohm
> 
> 
> Spoiler




Looking forward to impressions.

..


----------



## golov17

Few bass, natural tone of voice, a beautiful mid and high frequencies. Need amplifier. The signature sound style Dunu EX150, light, airy, detailed, unobtrusive. Beautifully played acoustic jazz, acoustic guitar, classical. Conflicting earduds .. The collection can be taken, but the main do not recommend. IMHO.


----------



## golov17

Despite their shortcomings, they liked me. Atmospheric intimate sound. Beautiful sound.


----------



## golov17

Right EP21HD 128 ohm, left EP21 32 ohm


Spoiler


----------



## The Dan of Steel

golov17 said:


> Right EP21HD 128 ohm, left EP21 32 ohm


 
 So 32 ohm has grey ring and the 128 has white is that correct? That makes it easy to identify, provided the seller has correct pictures posted. Thanks!


----------



## Toom

the dan of steel said:


> So 32 ohm has grey ring and the 128 has white is that correct? That makes it easy to identify, provided the seller has correct pictures posted. Thanks!




Does HD mean Hard to Drive?


----------



## golov17

high definition


----------



## golov17

the dan of steel said:


> So 32 ohm has grey ring and the 128 has white is that correct? That makes it easy to identify, provided the seller has correct pictures posted. Thanks!



EP21 soft rubber on the connector and the cable yellow-gray tint of white, EP21HD plastic on the connector and white cable.


----------



## jincuteguy

So no one wants the VE Zen? Im selling it right now for cheap price.  Best EArbuds on the market righ tnow period.


----------



## golov17

golov17 said:


> Few bass, natural tone of voice, a beautiful mid and high frequencies. Need amplifier. The signature sound style Dunu EX150, light, airy, detailed, unobtrusive. Beautifully played acoustic jazz, acoustic guitar, classical. Conflicting earduds .. The collection can be taken, but the main do not recommend. IMHO.


Well, Supplement. After 8 hours, the burn, increased sensitivity of the headset are now "singing" and without headamp with Meizu MX2 with a library of sounds from a third Flyme.


----------



## golov17

golov17 said:


> Well, Supplement. After 8 hours, the burn, increased sensitivity of the headset are now "singing" and without headamp with Meizu MX2 with a library of sounds from a third Flyme.


 26 horuse of burn .., normal flight.. fly a more ..


----------



## golov17

I can recommend earbuds CoGoo!! DX400. J cables, fat tires, a good minijack. The sound is warm, thick texture of the vocal field, soft good bass. Among the shortcomings, only a few would be more high end.. but this is nitpicking. For its price, very good.


----------



## golov17

Cogoo dx400 music earphones hifi earphone for mobile phone mp3 bass earplugs classic with retail box
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Cogoo-dx400-music-earphones-hifi-earphone-for-mobile-phone-mp3-bass-earplugs-classic-with-retail-box/32296427379.html
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> I can recommend earbuds CoGoo!! DX400. J cables, fat tires, a good minijack. The sound is warm, thick texture of the vocal field, soft good bass. Among the shortcomings, only a few would be more high end.. but this is nitpicking. For its price, very good.


 
  
 I have the CoGoo!! DX550 coming soon.
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

golov17 said:


> 26 horuse of burn .., normal flight.. fly a more ..


 Outcome. Meizu EP21HD. 50 h burn. Significant improvement in all aspects of the sound. First of all, now it sounds acceptable to weak DAPs and smartphones. Added bass and the air in the signature. For $ 12, it stolen


----------



## golov17

Buy this: Original Meizu EP21HD Earphones for MX4 pro High Quality Headphone HIFI Headset with Remote MIC mx4 earphone
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-Meizu-EP21HD-Earphones-for-MX4-pro-High-Quality-Headphone-HIFI-Headset-with-Remote-MIC-mx4/32253231098.html
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## ClieOS

toom said:


> Does HD mean Hard to Drive?


 
  
 Read this:
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparison-beyerdynamic-dt-880-32-ohm-dt-880-250-ohm-and-dt-880-600-ohm-headphones
  
 There is good reason why sometime higher impedance makes for better headphone.


----------



## Toom

clieos said:


> Read this:
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparison-beyerdynamic-dt-880-32-ohm-dt-880-250-ohm-and-dt-880-600-ohm-headphones
> 
> There is good reason why sometime higher impedance makes for better headphone.


 
  
 Was a joke.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> Read this:
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparison-beyerdynamic-dt-880-32-ohm-dt-880-250-ohm-and-dt-880-600-ohm-headphones
> 
> There is good reason why sometime higher impedance makes for better headphone.


 Simple and accessible overview explaining the complicated phenomenon. Thank you.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Took me a while to figure out how, but I got these things working pretty well now.
  
  
*Earhoox:*
  
  
 
  
  

  
  
  

  
 ..


----------



## Raketen

Love those Innnerfidelity explainer articles... still have the Freq Response ones open in tabs, been meaning to read.
  
 Earhoox look interesting- is the fit similar to the Dunu 'shark fins'? Recently got some Dunus and am surprised how much I like the fin accessories.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

raketen said:


> Earhoox look interesting- is the fit similar to the Dunu 'shark fins'? Recently got some Dunus and am surprised how much I like the fin accessories.


 
  
 Never tried the Dunu Shark Fins, so not sure.
  
 The Earhoox are just yet another good tool to help earbuds stay in place.  Great for on the go.
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

IMHO, Philips SHE3800 have the most balanced sound from cheap earbuds. I love it. Recomend 


Spoiler


----------



## golov17

http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=1116


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> IMHO, Philips SHE3800 have the most balanced sound from cheap earbuds. I love it.Recomended


 


golov17 said:


> http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=1116


 
  
 Thanks for the heads up.
  
  
 BTW, I am a big fan of Lunashops.  It is a great site.
  
 ..


----------



## golov17




----------



## Raketen

Got the audio-technica CM707 in. ClieOS' notes seem pretty spot on- finding myself EQing a little treble in.  Not sure I'd want to pay MSRP, but quite decent. Kinda skimp on the foamies - only one pair? Also sensitivity seems a little low for a 16 ohm driver. Enjoying the form factor, though, nice indoor alternative to full size cans in the summer heat. Not sure about comfort yet, but I've had IEMs that are worse. Thinking maybe I'll try ordering some of the new Blox whenever they come out. Earbuds, who'da thunk it...


----------



## golov17

If you buy the Zen, you will get a discount on the amplifier Runabout and a new flagship Nirvana. Excellent offer. If you have not bought a VE Zen.


----------



## golov17

Wild Lee
also, the perks for Nirvana will of course be expired as soon as the nirvana is ready to ship, as it is only a way to compensate for those who is ready to buy Zen now. and whoever then owns a authentic Zen before the shipment of Nirvana will be hold this perk for a limited period of time, not sure how long , but definitely long enough for one to place the order lol.(so at least a week, maybe two)


----------



## golov17

Many of this type of earbuds, this buds hitting sound great! I recommend! The detail level Powerbeats DIY, but with more natural tones. Style Audio-technica sound. Very high quality.


Spoiler


----------



## Ruben123

How should I wear the earbell e100s? They really are big


----------



## Expansion

golov17 said:


> Many of this type of earbuds, this buds hitting sound great! I recommend! The detail level Powerbeats DIY, but with more natural tones. Style Audio-technica sound. Very high quality.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


 
 Can you post a link?


----------



## golov17

sold out 
 but the picture on the site shows other earbuds, these I have, and there is quite a different sound


----------



## Expansion

golov17, below 20$, what would you recommend?


----------



## golov17

Suvov S20


----------



## Expansion

Can't find them in stock.


----------



## golov17

http://www.mistertao.com/beta/search?keyword=Suvov+s20&cn_keyword=Suvov%2520s20&type=all


----------



## sbose

golov17 said:


> http://www.mistertao.com/beta/search?keyword=Suvov+s20&cn_keyword=Suvov%2520s20&type=all


 
  i did not quite understand. it costs only 3$.
 what is the best can i get with a 20$ budget.


----------



## jincuteguy

Anyone still interested in the Zen? PM me.


----------



## johndoe12

Just wanted to give some feedback on the Earbuds listed here. I'm a long time lurker.
  
 I have TM7, As Charms, Pk1, pk3 (broke), ok3, Baldoor Es100 (just got), 9wave studio (gave away) , mx760.
  
 Sound wise : Tm7 beats them all with clarity and separation, although could use a tiny bit more bass, however due to my ear size, I can feel them after a while of using them.
  
 My favorite and most comfortable pair is the pk1, but unfortunately it requires an amp to shine. I have small ears, so the pk1s are very comfortable and have great bass.
  
 As Charms are pretty awful when you hear the others (maybe my pair came defective?)
  
 Pk1s might be old, but they still sound great, although I wish they were cheaper.
  
 Pk3s have horrible durability, but do sound good for $40. (Don't know if yuin improved the cable quality on these since 2008)


----------



## fleasbaby

johndoe12 said:


> Just wanted to give some feedback on the Earbuds listed here. I'm a long time lurker.
> 
> I have TM7, As Charms, Pk1, pk3 (broke), ok3, Baldoor Es100 (just got), 9wave studio (gave away) , mx760.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I tried the AS Charm a long time ago as well....I didn't like them much at all...


----------



## golov17

New Arrival


----------



## golov17

Korean triad Pleomax 


Spoiler


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> New Arrival


 
  
  


golov17 said:


> Korean triad Pleomax
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


 
 Any of those any good?
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

Pleomax PEP700,760,970: they all have a very good bass presentation: a thick, warm, vintage sound like an old tube radio. Junior is good for speech programs, television, radio, and so on. The average model has mid-range has a forward, with bright sources of bad, but with the dark, on the contrary, very good. The older model is the most balanced of the three, and it is best for SQ. It's not boring, successful acquisition, IMHO.


----------



## golov17

For lovers bass in AWEI, recomended


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> For lovers bass in AWEI, recomended


 
 Awei ES10 / ES11.  Big Bass.


----------



## chompy

bloodypenguin said:


> Awei ES10 / ES11.  Big Bass.




Similar to Edifier H180? What about their highs (I found they are slightly rolled off in H180) and soundstage?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

chompy said:


> Similar to Edifier H180? What about their highs (I found they are slightly rolled off in H180) and soundstage?


 
 I've never tried the H180.
  
 I will say the highs are rolled off a little early giving it a fun overall sound without being fatiguing.  
 Soundstage is very decent, along with good instrument separation. For $6 USD or less, these are quite awesome little earbuds IMO.
  
 ..


----------



## rymd

chompy said:


> Similar to Edifier H180? What about their highs (I found they are slightly rolled off in H180) and soundstage?


 
 Similar in that they're both heavily oriented around the lows, maybe. But I think the H180 is better in almost every way. If you think the H180 has rolled off highs (sounds v-shaped to me), you're not gonna like the ES10 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. like bloodypenguin said, highs are rolled off, but to the extreme imo. What the ES10 does have though is gobs of bass. Extends much lower than the H180, which has more of a mid-bass emphasis. But that's about it. Detail wise, there's no contest.


----------



## jincuteguy

golov17 said:


> New Arrival


 
  
 Wow why you buy so many Earbuds for?


----------



## golov17

Why not?


----------



## golov17

WITH various DAP different headphones sound differently. It is an various synergy


----------



## chompy

Thanks @BloodyPenguin and @rymd
  
 ... I know I'm maybe asking for too much, but are there any earbuds then on the market with Awei bass and more extended highs than H180?


----------



## korzena

Would Creative brand be recommended for cheap earbuds ($5-$15)?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

chompy said:


> Thanks @BloodyPenguin and @rymd
> 
> ... I know I'm maybe asking for too much, but are there any earbuds then on the market with Awei bass and more extended highs than H180?




I'm thinking the new VE Monk might solve all those needs once it comes out very soon. 

..


----------



## chompy

bloodypenguin said:


> I'm thinking the new VE Monk might solve all those needs once it comes out very soon.
> 
> ..




Thanks again, I'm following VE thread waiting for Monk first impressions as well as retail Asura final sound.


----------



## mochill

+1 on VE monk


----------



## golov17

+2 on VE Monk


----------



## rymd

chompy said:


> Thanks @BloodyPenguin and @rymd
> 
> ... I know I'm maybe asking for too much, but are there any earbuds then on the market with Awei bass and more extended highs than H180?


 
 Maybe, but I don't know of any. I have not heard the Monk (though looking forward) and don't know how it's supposed to sound. If it's going to be like the Asura/Zen, then maybe. My beta Asura sure has Awei level bass, but in much higher quality. The highs may not be as extended as you like though.
  
 The closest thing I can think of is the E100, which has bass as extended as the Awei, but without the emphasis or boom. A bit less quantity than the H180 also, but not at all bass light. And its highs are fairly extended, also more detailed than the H180's.


----------



## chompy

rymd said:


> Maybe, but I don't know of any. I have not heard the Monk (though looking forward) and don't know how it's supposed to sound. If it's going to be like the Asura/Zen, then maybe. My beta Asura sure has Awei level bass, but in much higher quality. The highs may not be as extended as you like though.
> 
> The closest thing I can think of is the E100, which has bass as extended as the Awei, but without the emphasis or boom. A bit less quantity than the H180 also, but not at all bass light. And its highs are fairly extended, also more detailed than the H180's.


 

 Thanks for your detailed reply.
  
 I think I'll have fitting problems with E100, so I'll wait for Monk and see what it can deliver. I'm also interested in Ostry KC8 that should be released soon, they look really nice, but I dont have any clue about their sound signature.


----------



## RedJohn456

rymd said:


> Maybe, but I don't know of any. I have not heard the Monk (though looking forward) and don't know how it's supposed to sound. If it's going to be like the Asura/Zen, then maybe. My beta Asura sure has Awei level bass, but in much higher quality. The highs may not be as extended as you like though.
> 
> The closest thing I can think of is the E100, which has bass as extended as the Awei, but without the emphasis or boom. A bit less quantity than the H180 also, but not at all bass light. And its highs are fairly extended, also more detailed than the H180's.


 

 Retail asura is tuned differently iirc


----------



## waynes world

chompy said:


> Thanks for your detailed reply.
> 
> I think I'll have fitting problems with E100, so I'll wait for Monk and see what it can deliver. *I'm also interested in Ostry KC8* that should be released soon, they look really nice, but I dont have any clue about their sound signature.


 
  
 Me too. I really like the kc06/kc06a iems, so I have high hopes for the kc08 earbud.


----------



## RedJohn456

waynes world said:


> Me too. I really like the kc06/kc06a iems, so I have high hopes for the kc08 earbud.


 

 Me too bud. they kind of dropped off the radar, no updates since January.


----------



## golov17

Something Ostry KC08 muddy history now do not respond to emails, and in the net from a page in Chinese, KC08 disappeared. However, on english language versions of a page is, without specifics. I hope to release them on sale, maybe..


----------



## golov17

My opinion on bass earbuds: VE beta Asura ≥ VE beta Monk > Pleomax PEP970,700,760 ≥ AWEI ES10


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Nevermind..


----------



## jincuteguy

Anyone interested in buying the Zen? PM me.


----------



## golov17

Got both new VE Asura and new Blox M2C. It is immediately clear that the headphones are outstanding. Very satisfied. Now burn them


----------



## golov17

Asura wins, IMHO


----------



## RedJohn456

anyone know when is the new blox flagship coming out? What would be the best place to get them?


----------



## golov17

Contender for the Asura, it Blox BE5,7, but Asura tone of voice more natural & balanced .. and more air in the sound. IMHO


----------



## golov17

RedJohn456, The work goes on, as far as I know. Maybe by the Q3 or end of the year we will know definitively.


----------



## cocopro

Asura's sound stage is weird, good width but disconnected, not nearly as immersive as the Zen.


----------



## RedJohn456

Quote:


golov17 said:


> RedJohn456, The work goes on, as far as I know. Maybe by the Q3 or end of the year we will know definitively.


 
  

 Ah okay, thanks Golov 
  


cocopro said:


> Asura's sound stage is weird, good width but disconnected, not nearly as immersive as the Zen.


 
  
 I am assuming you are talking about the beta version? The retail version sounds better imo


----------



## cocopro

redjohn456 said:


> Quote:
> 
> I am assuming you are talking about the beta version? The retail version sounds better imo


 
  
 That's right, you bought the retail version? cool


----------



## golov17

More impressions .. If they evaluate critically, one can find flaws, but they do not want to evaluate critically .. I want to just enjoy the music .. And what else is needed??  Its magic VE, IMHO


----------



## RedJohn456

cocopro said:


> That's right, you bought the retail version? cool


 

 I am only saying that to highlight that its sound has been tweaked since the beta unit, for the better imho


----------



## kcdecker

Worst thing in the world:  Losing my PK3's when someone robbed our lockers at work...coming on this thread, and then finding that none of the top contenders on the original post are available for purchase anywhere.


----------



## Raketen

kcdecker said:


> Worst thing in the world:  Losing my PK3's when someone robbed our lockers at work...coming on this thread, and then finding that none of the top contenders on the original post are available for purchase anywhere.


 
  
 That's awful  You can find the Zen on aliexpress, the other two also occasionally pop up used in the for sale forums, fair number in the "great" and "good" category are still in production, as well as the PK3, or more recent models that aren't in the list- amazon/ebay, etc...or sometimes direct from the manufacturer like Blox.


----------



## tukangketik

redjohn456 said:


> anyone know when is the new blox flagship coming out? What would be the best place to get them?



I have been intensively emailing with Woo for the past months. As far as I heard from him, Blox will release new model on Q3 but Not a flagship. It seems they are taking a new approach so the development is a bit slow, which Woo mention earlier, one of them is that they are making buds with smaller housing. That is all I can say. I could be wrong tho'.


----------



## golov17

Blox M2C it as a good near-field monitors! A new Asura it as a good outdoor speakers, IMHO. If you know what I mean. The difference in the supply and presentation of musical material  Both are worthy!


----------



## RedJohn456

golov17 said:


> Blox M2C it as a good near-field monitors! A new Asura it as a good outdoor speakers, IMHO. If you know what I mean. The difference in the supply and presentation of musical material  Both are worthy!




How much is the Blox m2c? What's the best place to buy it?


----------



## golov17

In blox e-mail for $55


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I have a couple extra sets of those Earhoox for sale if anyone is interested.
  
 They sell sets for about $10 each on Amazon.  
  
 I'm just asking *$5 each* (with free shipping), plus I am throwing in some free Earbud Foam Covers.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/773897/brand-new-earhoox-blue-or-black-plus-bonus-earbud-foam-covers
  
  
 I really enjoy the set I have.
  
    
  
  
 ..


----------



## RedJohn456

bloodypenguin said:


> I have a couple extra sets of those Earhoox for sale if anyone is interested.
> 
> They sell sets for about $10 each on Amazon.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Crap wish you had posted this earlier, I wouldn't have bought it from the site then. How many do you have left? I need one for my asura and Baldoors as well.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

redjohn456 said:


> Crap wish you had posted this earlier, I wouldn't have bought it from the site then. How many do you have left? I need one for my asura and Baldoors as well.


 
 I have one set of the Blue ones left.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 ..


----------



## RedJohn456

bloodypenguin said:


> I have one set of the Blue ones left.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Mine!  PMed you


----------



## golov17

who agree to sell to me beta Asura? PM to me..


----------



## davakhrs

Hey guys I'm from Indonesia, i just want to ask. What is the best earbuds under 15$?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

davakhrs said:


> Hey guys I'm from Indonesia, i just want to ask. What is the best earbuds under 15$?


 
 What kind of sound signature are you looking for?  Bassy?  Neutral?
  
 ..


----------



## davakhrs

bloodypenguin said:


> What kind of sound signature are you looking for?  Bassy?  Neutral?
> 
> ..


I'm looking for the all rounder one


----------



## whitemass

I guess what I've learned, and if there's anything to judge by all this is simple.
  
 IEMs, & Earbuds should mandatory by standards have a detachable cables.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

whitemass said:


> I guess what I've learned, and if there's anything to judge by all this is simple.
> 
> IEMs, & Earbuds should mandatory by standards have a detachable cables.


 
 I've contacted numerous earbud companies, looking for one of them to produce a removable cable.  I have yet to find one that thinks it is an idea worthy of production.
  
 ..


----------



## whitemass

bloodypenguin said:


> I've contacted numerous earbud companies, looking for one of them to produce a removable cable.  I have yet to find one that thinks it is an idea worthy of production.
> 
> ..


 
 Goes as easy as saying you're probably contacting the wrong people.
 Take into play that all the Higher End Audio Companies who have designed an IEM have made it detachable.
 The only reason not to is when it's budget.
 There's a bigger advantage to Detachables.
  
  
 But I'm gonna quit quoting you, because I'm not gonna start a war over opinions that fit to a certain person.


----------



## davakhrs

What you guys think about Suvov S20? Is it worth to buy earbuds below 15$?


----------



## abaynp

davakhrs said:


> What you guys think about Suvov S20? Is it worth to buy earbuds below 15$?


 

 I know you Dava Kharis 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 for me S20, below 15$. Baldoor E100 for under $25 or may be the DIY Powerbeats


----------



## Hitokage

Hi all, I have gotten myself a Yuin PK3 a month back, and it's the most expensive earbud I have ever purchased =P
 It's clearly the clearest (no pun intended) thing I have ever listened to, but would like to seek an upgrade.
 I know little about music stuffs, so please bear with me as I try describing everything in layman style. 

 Here is my main concern for PK3 which I don't experience in my other cheaper earbuds:

 Low-energy / quiet stuffs (e.g. a quiet solo piano) sounds very weak, constipated. While louder stuffs can come out too strong, with certain sound causing discomfort for my ears (very short, fairly sharp pain), or in other words, piercing sound. The difference in soft and loud sounds is a tad too great. Turning volume down/up solves this problem, but I have many songs which goes from soft to loud or vice-versa in matters of seconds. In any cases, it's too troublesome (and ridiculous) to adjust volume during the same song.

 Does this have anything to do with PK3's higher-than-average resistance (32) and sensitivity (120)? My other earbuds are all 16 ohms and below 110 DBs, and reading the descriptions of resistance and sensitivity, it does make sense to me. If so, I'm going for earbuds with less resistance and sensitivity.

 Another concern (a minor one) is that I find the vocals -slightly- underwhelming. Not that I want to focus more on vocals, but isn't it the normal for vocal to be more dominant, since it is the main melody anyways?

 So yeah, I'm looking for any upgrade that can address my concerns. Other than the above problems, I'm fine with the sound signature of PK3. Currently I'm stumped at Yuin PK2 / OK2, Audio Technica CM707 and a hybrid earphone CHX7IS. Any thing else is far too expensive for me. Reading reviews of these doesn't help, and we have both praisers and critisisers, so I prefer to get help after talking about a bit of my own taste.

 Thanks for reading ^^ I think I will make a thread only if I can't get sufficient respondants.


----------



## golov17

Try Blox BE3 38 Ohm, BE5 24 Ohm


----------



## Raketen

hitokage said:


> Here is my main concern for PK3 which I don't experience in my other cheaper earbuds:
> 
> Does this have anything to do with PK3's higher-than-average resistance (32) and sensitivity (120)? My other earbuds are all 16 ohms and below 110 DBs, and reading the descriptions of resistance and sensitivity, it does make sense to me. If so, I'm going for earbuds with less resistance and sensitivity.
> 
> Another concern (a minor one) is that I find the vocals -slightly- underwhelming. Not that I want to focus more on vocals, but isn't it the normal for vocal to be more dominant, since it is the main melody anyways?


 
 I think the sensitivity really means that you should get the full  dynamic range at lower volume/voltage, including the quiet parts-  What are you listening with? I don't think any device should have trouble driving anything with those specs.
  
 Have you tried holding the buds with different positioning in you ears? are you using foams? Sorry if it is super obvious to you- Just recently got my first earbuds in a long time and have found that can very dramatically affect the sound (not to mention reports of the Baldoor becoming a magical unicorn killer if you pinch and fold your ears in just the right way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). How does the shape compare to your other buds? May just be a bad fit for you.
  
 I have not heard the PK3, but I think the CM707 sound very nice for piano, vocal parts- if you like 'clear sound' of the PK3, they might not be the best choice, because the highs and details can sound a little recessed on the 707- if you don't mind using EQ they can be corrected.


----------



## davakhrs

abaynp said:


> I know you Dava Kharis :tongue_smile:
> 
> for me S20, below 15$. Baldoor E100 for under $25 or may be the DIY Powerbeats


haha ada bang Akbar Nur Pribadi 

I think I'm gonna collect cheap earbuds below 15$ again, got any suggestions? except Edifier H180


----------



## golov17

VE Monk


----------



## Hitokage

golov17 said:


> Try Blox BE3 38 Ohm, BE5 24 Ohm


 

 For now I'm a little concerned about resistance higher than 19. Need to know more in depth first as to why I'm experiencing what I'm experiencing with my PK3.
  


raketen said:


> I think the sensitivity really means that you should get the full  dynamic range at lower volume/voltage, including the quiet parts-  What are you listening with? I don't think any device should have trouble driving anything with those specs.
> 
> Have you tried holding the buds with different positioning in you ears? are you using foams? Sorry if it is super obvious to you- Just recently got my first earbuds in a long time and have found that can very dramatically affect the sound (not to mention reports of the Baldoor becoming a magical unicorn killer if you pinch and fold your ears in just the right way
> 
> ...


 

 Yes I understand that about sensitivity, except that I have a feeling high resistance don't work well with high sensitivity. The high resistance causes the soft piano to sound constipated, which will sound normal when you turn the volume up. But with such volume, some parts with more energy suddenly sound too piercing due to high sensitivity. This is what I can explain, as a newbie. I would welcome any other explanations as to why I would be experiencing what I'm experiencing. I'm listening with my smartphone (will always be smartphone), which is currently Samsung S4.

 Yup, I tried different positioning, the difference is as good as negligent. I'm not using foams as I'm very comfortable with how it fits, though I did try using one, and I felt that lots of details are lost.

 I find that the PK3 does deliver most instruments very beautifully, including piano. The only problem is the vast volume difference between softer and louder parts. So if the CM707 indeed doesn't have such issue (which shouldn't, from my own theory of lower resistance and sensitivity) then I should be fine with it. I don't mind using EQ, I'm currently using it.
 Speaking of EQ, this is how I meddled with it for all my earbuds. Though with slight difference between each earbuds, I always prefer to have more bass and treble. I left 500 untouched, while boosting up 31 the most, followed by 8k, and then followed by 62, 16k and 4k at almost same level with each other. The rest I just boost a little bit. In other words, 250-2k are almost untouched. Generally I don't like the sound that these ranges produced. Hope this gives more insight to my musical preference, and whether CM707 is still a good choice.

 As always, thanks for the attention!


----------



## golov17

CM707 not good sound signature, IMHO


----------



## golov17

In addition, VE Asura 150 Ohm great playing with my Meizu MX2 without power amp.. Volume 50℅


----------



## Raketen

hitokage said:


> For now I'm a little concerned about resistance higher than 19. Need to know more in depth first as to why I'm experiencing what I'm experiencing with my PK3.
> 
> 
> Yes I understand that about sensitivity, except that I have a feeling high resistance don't work well with high sensitivity. The high resistance causes the soft piano to sound constipated, which will sound normal when you turn the volume up. But with such volume, some parts with more energy suddenly sound too piercing due to high sensitivity. This is what I can explain, as a newbie. I would welcome any other explanations as to why I would be experiencing what I'm experiencing. I'm listening with my smartphone (will always be smartphone), which is currently Samsung S4.
> ...


 
 This is well past my level of understanding, but I think you may be reading too directly into impedance- there are many additional factors which would contribute to your experience of excessive dynamic range, including the actual intended tuning of the pk3, how it interacts with your device, etc.. - by which  I mean you could try a different headphone with the same ratings that produces completely different dynamics.
  
 The S4 should be well capable of avoiding any such impedance related problems (i.e. constrained piano at lower volumes) at that level-  Interestngly, did a quick search and saw some posts saying the S4 actually had a problem with lower impedances that produced some distortion/peakiness in the higher frequencies, which seems to have been addressed in a firmware update- might be worth checking that your device is updated- though idk if the actual problems produced would be audible or have any bearing on your situtation: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=43868988&postcount=849
  
 I do not experience exaggerated dynamics with the CM707, but it could just be my ears are used to that type of sound- I tend to be a fairly low volume listener as well. It is however, somewhat 'warm' sounding, which might be a problem for you in that low to midrange area- although I also have a bit of a preference for  'v or u-shaped' signatures- fortunately I am "blessed" with a very short audio memory and adapt to new sound quickly (some people it takes a whole week to be used to a headphone)- I mostly listen to it flat, will occasionally do a small bump at 6.3k, sometimes 2.5k and 16k with a dip at 400.
  
 side note: I find this chart incredibly helpful in playing around with EQ http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm
  
 Sorry, wish I had better answers- I'm sure golov17 can suggest some good v or u shaped ones- seems like he tries everything


----------



## Hitokage

golov17 said:


> In addition, VE Asura 150 Ohm great playing with my Meizu MX2 without power amp.. Volume 50℅


 
  
 VE Asura looks very interesting, but is it the predecessor to Zen? I can't find it on sales anywhere.


raketen said:


> This is well past my level of understanding, but I think you may be reading too directly into impedance- there are many additional factors which would contribute to your experience of excessive dynamic range, including the actual intended tuning of the pk3, how it interacts with your device, etc.. - by which  I mean you could try a different headphone with the same ratings that produces completely different dynamics.
> 
> The S4 should be well capable of avoiding any such impedance related problems (i.e. constrained piano at lower volumes) at that level-  Interestngly, did a quick search and saw some posts saying the S4 actually had a problem with lower impedances that produced some distortion/peakiness in the higher frequencies, which seems to have been addressed in a firmware update- might be worth checking that your device is updated- though idk if the actual problems produced would be audible or have any bearing on your situtation: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=43868988&postcount=849
> 
> ...


 

 My S4 is actually LTE-A model rather than the regular one, but regardless, it is already at lollipop.
 Ah yes, I guess I don't like where CM707 is being focused at. That frequency chart doesn't help as I have too many types of songs with all different instruments. I just adjust the equalizer to suit as many songs as possible, though songs like techno and electro seems to be easily sounds good.

 Anyways, to slightly counter the piercing issue, I reduce the 8k slider. While to address the vocal issues, instead of having 500 as default, I have the lowest and highest of midrange (250 and 2k) at default, and slightly boost everything in between. So now, the overall pattern looks like W instead of V or U. This really made more songs sound much better, though I don't see anyone talking about W signature. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Overall, I still feel that this PK3 really wants you to keep adjusting your volume. Furthermore I am already using ReplayGain to level out the volume of all songs. Without ReplayGain, it's much worse.

 I think I'll be more willing to freely buy and try out more earphones after completing my studies 2 years later. For now, if possible, I would look for something that suit my taste and is also the best bang for bucks. When it comes to this, I tend to look more at Audio Technica stuffs due to the amazing exchange rate of Japan Yen. Afterall, the CM707 cost over USD100 2 years+ back and is now literally half price mainly due to the exchange rate.

 If not, I shall just spend this 2 years learning more about earbuds-related and relevant musical stuffs ^^


----------



## golov17

I bought cm707 at the beginning of the release of $ 150. Today, the price dropped by half, and now it is more than adequate..


----------



## Expansion

Can you describe CM707?
 Is it airy, is it harsh?
 How is the bass/mids/impact/soundstage?


----------



## golov17

This warm, bass, thick sound, but there are unpleasant to my ears the emphasis in the medium - high range, but if you use an equalizer, then for you it will not be a problem... I do not use equalizer.


----------



## golov17

SQ good, but I do not like tonal balance. For you, it might be different ..


----------



## Expansion

Golov, how do you find Sennheiser PX-100?
 I find it lacking a lot of air/highs, and too much forward sounding, like there's not distance between you and the stage. 
 They're not sweet at all, they're harsh sounding.


----------



## golov17

Yes, i agree. This not like me more.. , too dark sound


----------



## golov17

В конце концов, я дал другу CM707 и дал девушке px100-2


----------



## Expansion

For twice the price.


----------



## golov17

since I did not use them, it's better they will serve for those who are interested in, lol


----------



## Ucong

My JS e600 worthed every penny... its about USD21 price tag at my local dealer... thx for the update mr. "C"...


----------



## Expansion

Golov17, Jiushao E600 vs Suvov S20?


----------



## golov17

Suvov best for my ears, fun, imho
Or Jiushao e300


----------



## MRK1

I'm a 100% earbud person and I have no issue fitting them or using them, I vastly prefer earbuds to in-ears which cause discomfort in my ears.
  
 After reading this thread and lurking around for a while, I found out that many cheapo chinese earbuds are supposed to sound really good, which, if true, makes me kind of a fool since I always bought expensive ones.
  
 Anyway, right now I'm looking for some new earbuds and I can spend up to 70€. Again, I don't have issues fitting them, never had a pair falling off, etc.
  
 Which one should I buy considering I listen mostly to electronic music? Favourite genres are Trance (mostly Uplifting), Techno, Japanese stuff (mostly vocaloid), chiptunes, but I also listen to a lot of instrumental and classical music. If I were to describe the sound I'm looking for, it should have bass but not muddy (eventually I have no problem equalizing to create a bigger bass), forward mids and crisp high (but I hate when they "sparkle" and make listening fatiguing). I'm pretty sure this is what you would describe as V Shape sound. Again I don't mind equalizing my 'buds, so if one is lacking, say, in bass, I don't mind bumping up the bass via software.
  
 Right now I have the Sennheiser MX570 and AKG Y15. The Sennheiser is pretty good but lacks in bass, the AKG is overall average but not a whole lot worse than the Senn, this one has slightly muddy sound and since it has crazy high impedance (64Ohm) for whatever reason it has low volume.
  
 What should I buy given the info I gave you? Should I get one of those chinese sub $20 earbuds like the Baldoor/Mrice E100, Edifier H180? Or get another high end earbud? On the high end I was looking at the AudioTechnica CHX7 which is a hybrid earbud. I was also considering the Sony STH30 headset which according to reviews should be similar to the Apple Airpods or whatever they're called but better sounding. Also what about those VE (Venture Electronics) that I keep hearing about, any way to buy them in Europe?
  
 Please respond, and thanks in advance.


----------



## golov17

I recommend waiting VE Asura, or if you do not want to wait, Blox BE5. 150 ohm vs 24 ohm.


----------



## MRK1

Can't find Blox be5 anywhere. Also 150 ohms is way too much, I don't have an amp. Finally, another earbud that I loved was the akg k319, amazing detail and mid but it lacked in bass.

By the way, I have to mention that everytime I tried cheap Chinese earbuds they've always been absolutely dreadful.


----------



## golov17

http://www.head-fi.org/t/730946/fs-brand-new-blox-be5-will-ship-worldwide#post_11725791


----------



## MRK1

golov17 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/730946/fs-brand-new-blox-be5-will-ship-worldwide#post_11725791


 
 Thank you but I'd rather not buy used.


----------



## golov17

This NEW Buds!


----------



## MRK1

I mean that I prefer to buy from stores and not private sellers. And also I'd rather buy only from the European Union.


----------



## golov17

Well, good luck .. But such a sound in the European Union is not for sale, lol


----------



## golov17

Made in Thailand


----------



## golov17

Venture Electronics® Made in China


----------



## golov17

This is more best AKG K317,319 & Sennheiser MX880, IMHO


----------



## MRK1

Buying electronics other than cables or cheap little stuff from outside the EU will get the packet blocked by the customs and I will have to pay taxes on it on top of waiting several additional days for delivery due to inspections, unless I get lucky, which I wont


----------



## golov17

This in Italy?  Bad this for you..


----------



## MRK1

Bought Mrice E100 from Amazon IT and JiuShao E300 from Aliexpress. I'm not so sure about dirt cheap headphones being higher rated than some of my favourites that costed me more than twice as much, but maybe I've been a fool all along and high quality can really be found for low prices. Both are rated higher than the AKG K319 which is probably my favourite earbud ever (costed 70€). The E100 should come pretty soon and I'll post a review, the JiuShao comes from China so it will take at least two weeks (won't pay custom taxes because price is low enough). Last 2 times I bought obscure chinese brand cheap earbuds in local stores they were literally unlistenable so I have a bit of a bias against them.


----------



## Hitokage

golov17 said:


> In addition, VE Asura 150 Ohm great playing with my Meizu MX2 without power amp.. Volume 50℅


 
  
 Very interested in Asura, but really not sure if my phone can drive it. Currently with my PK3, I already need to set preamp (poweramp) to maximum and volume at about 60%+ while taking bus, 50% at home. This is mainly due to all my songs containing ReplayGain.
  


mrk1 said:


> What should I buy given the info I gave you? Should I get one of those chinese sub $20 earbuds like the Baldoor/Mrice E100, Edifier H180? Or get another high end earbud? On the high end I was looking at the AudioTechnica CHX7 which is a hybrid earbud. I was also considering the Sony STH30 headset which according to reviews should be similar to the Apple Airpods or whatever they're called but better sounding. Also what about those VE (Venture Electronics) that I keep hearing about, any way to buy them in Europe?
> 
> Please respond, and thanks in advance.


 
   
 Is CHX7 high end? They are available from CDJapan at 40 bucks with shipping, while around 45 for CHX7IS.
 I would love to try it as well, so far I have only tested CHX5, and I don't like it, but CHX7 is said to have a different signature/tuning.
  
  
 Quote:


mrk1 said:


> Bought Mrice E100 from Amazon IT and JiuShao E300 from Aliexpress. I'm not so sure about dirt cheap headphones being higher rated than some of my favourites that costed me more than twice as much, but maybe I've been a fool all along and high quality can really be found for low prices. Both are rated higher than the AKG K319 which is probably my favourite earbud ever (costed 70€). The E100 should come pretty soon and I'll post a review, the JiuShao comes from China so it will take at least two weeks (won't pay custom taxes because price is low enough). Last 2 times I bought obscure chinese brand cheap earbuds in local stores they were literally unlistenable so I have a bit of a bias against them.


 

 Looking forward to your reviews, especially the indeed dirt cheap JiuShao ^^


----------



## golov17

http://www.amazon.com/ATH-CHX7iS-SonicFuel-Headphones-Smartphones-ATH-CHX7ISWH/dp/B00HC019C4 $35 Amazon


----------



## MRK1

Golov are you some kind of earbud collector? Do you have Akg K319, Akg Y15, sennheiser mx580 or mx880? If you have them howdo you like them?


----------



## golov17

I do not understand what your question is? 
It's all good earbuds. AKG have signature akg, the same is true for Sennheiser. VE & Blox presented to us a new sound. IMHO.


----------



## golov17

Panasonic HJ329 earbuds


----------



## Expansion

My pair of Awei ES10 has just arrived. I bought them out of curiosity.
 They sound nice, but I wouldn't call them bassy.
 There is some sibilance which I hope that will disappear after the burn-in period.
  
 I'm already thinking about what to buy next. I want more detailed highs.
 Any suggestions?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

expansion said:


> My pair of Awei ES10 has just arrived. I bought them out of curiosity.
> They sound nice, but I wouldn't call them bassy.
> There is some sibilance which I hope that will disappear after the burn-in period.
> 
> ...


 
 Weird, I would describe them the completely opposite way.  
  
 Super bassy for me with no sibilance at all.  Strange....  Maybe I'm just getting a much better seal?
  
  
 For what to buy next.  I STRONGLY suggest the VE Monk when it comes out very soon.
  
 And the Suvov S20:  http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/19980338125.html


----------



## Expansion

I want to buy those Suvov's, but this is what the mistertao.com page says after 3-5 seconds, and I it doesn't let me buy the product:
  
  
*Dear Customer,*

All products related to keywords *"vov"* are banned to sell.
Please try to search other products you like. Thank you!
 

Mistertao team.


----------



## golov17

http://m.intl.taobao.com/search/search.html?q=Suvov%20s20


----------



## golov17

Copies the link into Taobao search and paste in Mistertao search


----------



## MRK1

I have a hard time believing that headphones that cost less than the material they're made of are going to sound any good. Sure, if they don't sound absolutely awful it's still going to be a good deal for $2, but good deal and good sound are two very different thing.
  
 I'd rather have a bad deal and buy something good than having an amazing deal on something awful.


----------



## Expansion

MRK1, what earbud would you buy?


----------



## MRK1

expansion said:


> MRK1, what earbud would you buy?


 
  
 I don't know, I just said I have a hard time believing that a $2 earbud would sound any good. If no-name chinese company #38756 can make "good" earbuds for $2 then everyone else is either doing it wrong or getting scammed. Right now I bought the Earbell and the JiuShao, because I have an easier time believing that $20 earbuds can sound good, since I have a few that costed me around that price and were definitely ok or good. But a $2 one sounding good? I'm doubtful.
  
 I'll give you another example. Let's assume the Earbell is as good as the AKG K319, which costed $70. Remove the brand name, fancy package, fancy accessories, and cheaper manufacturing (no metal grills, no inline volume, no extension cable) from the K319 and you can get an identical earbud that costs around $20, right? So it makes sense that the Earbell can sound as good as a headphone that cost 3x its price. But even being very generous saying that the $2 suvov is worth 5 times the price, that's sure a good deal but I don't recall any $10 earbud creating good sound, and I've had plenty. The cheapest one I have now is the AKG Y15 which costs 15€, and it sounds just decent. So if you want a decent earbud just hit the shopping mall and get the AKG Y15 which has good build quality, you don't have to wait a million years for it to get delivered, and you can take it back if it's defective out of the box.
  
 Do you get what I'm saying?
  
 But then again who knows, I don't have the Suvov, I can't even get the site to let me buy them (I get the "vov" banned message too), maybe some unknown acoustics genius engineer is working at Suvov and pumping out $2 earbuds by the truckload for the world to enjoy audio bliss, and I'm just a fool who gets tricked by fancy packages and brand names


----------



## BloodyPenguin

mrk1 said:


> I don't know, I just said I have a hard time believing that a $2 earbud would sound any good. If no-name chinese company #38756 can make "good" earbuds for $2 then everyone else is either doing it wrong or getting scammed. Right now I bought the Earbell and the JiuShao, because I have an easier time believing that $20 earbuds can sound good, since I have a few that costed me around that price and were definitely ok or good. But a $2 one sounding good? I'm doubtful.
> 
> ...


 
 I do get your point. 
  
 I just know what my ears tell me.  The Suvov S20 is not a giant killer, it cost about $8USD after all the fees.  It is just a really fun sounding earbud for a low price.  I like the Suvov S20 more than the Awei ES10 BTW.
  
 Also, not to beat a dead horse 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, but VE is releasing the Monk soon which will be about $5USD which is said to be very good.
  
  
 I've had a LOT of headphone/earphone/earbuds over the years.  About 50 in the last 4 years to be exact and some of the cheaper ones really do sound good to me. 
 Examples:  Koss KSC75, SoundSoul S-018, Suvov S20 and Monoprice 8320.  I purchased all of these for less than $10 each.
  
  
 Though I am not saying that more expensive products are not worth it.  I LOVED my Alessandro MS1 / Sennheiser HD650 before I sold them.  Both were worth every penny. 
 I'm just saying there are very good inexpensive earbuds out there that I enjoy using everyday.
  
 ..


----------



## Expansion

Maybe you'd buy the Awei ES10 too, and we'd have a common comparison point for start. 
  
 http://www.focalprice.com/EP0287B/AWEI_ES10_In_Ear_Hi_Fi_Headphone_Black.html?Currency=EUR
  
 AKG Y15 are 20 euros in my country. 
 I don't want just "decent" at this pricepoint, I want a "rocket". 
 Why a rocket? Because my gut feeling tells me that 20 euros is enough for building/selling a tier 1 earbud. 
 Yeah, they'll come and say that it's not true, etc, etc.


----------



## jailhouselounge

Where can US residents order VE earbuds? Been googling it to no avail... Thanks.


----------



## golov17

jailhouselounge said:


> Where can US residents order VE earbuds? Been googling it to no avail... Thanks.


Always on site Aliexpress.


----------



## golov17

Sennheiser mx880 for $92,98 AKG K319 for $99,98
 Big prices for collectors


----------



## Expansion

Golov17, so, I have Awei ES10, and I'm not amazed, should I still buy Mrice/Baldoor E100? Or should I buy something more high-end?
 And what should it be? 
 I want to be amazed.


----------



## golov17

Blox & VE


----------



## Expansion

VE is out of question, because I find it overpriced for that low quality, even if it sounds good. And it needs an amp...
 Blox, there's not flagship at the moment...
  
 Any other choices?


----------



## golov17

Tingo TG38S Brilliant impressive earbuds


----------



## fleasbaby

golov17 said:


> Tingo TG38S Brilliant impressive earbuds


 
  
 Oh dear....not the Tingo TG38 again!
  
 Sorry, just remembering the incredibly polarized reviews and massive arguments over them a while back...LOL


----------



## golov17

fleasbaby said:


> Oh dear....not the Tingo TG38 again!
> 
> Sorry, just remembering the incredibly polarized reviews and massive arguments over them a while back...LOL


 Maybe he likes it, lol


----------



## jincuteguy

golov17 said:


> Asura wins, IMHO


 
 How much is the Asura?


----------



## golov17

jincuteguy said:


> How much is the Asura?


Price has not been announced, but I think not more than $ 60


----------



## gacyde

Hi all
 which best at all these criteria 
 1. clarity
 2. soundstage 
 3. separation
  
 Please give 5 option with +/-


----------



## MRK1

Hey everyone. I got the E100 yesterday and I've been playing with them for a while. The exact model I bought was the "GranVela Mrice E100". Box is marked Mrice and comes with the headphones in a small plastic bag and two pairs of foams (one donut type). Headphones are marked "Baldoor" on the plug, so yeah there's some weird chinese corporation stuff going on with these in Europe. These costed me 20€ shipped.
  
 That being said, a quick first impression review.
  
 Build quality: pretty good all-plastic, cable is interesting to say the least, seems very sturdy. Manufacturing quality is overall ok. Jack is "gold" plated.
  
 Comfort: these are relatively big and I wish they had that part extending downward from the driver (sorry for the crude explanation, my English is not cooperating this morning) like regular earbuds because this way they are kinda hard to keep in place, as soon as you touch the cable you get some slight movement. Other than that they're regular earbuds and don't take much adjusting to do. You'd have to have a gaping ear canal to fit these sideways or insert them, so I wear them normally.
  
 My usage: I bought these as portable and chillout headphones for when I don't want to wear my fullsize cans and because I don't like ear-canal earbuds. Most of my collection is 320kbps mostly, and I have no amps. My PC has a Xonar DGX low end dedicated soundcard, and I have two smartphones, a Sony Xperia Z3 and a Samsung Galaxy S4. I highly recommend using the foams, I use regular foams.
  
 Sound: these do sound really good (for earbuds). There's literally no way these sound better than full size headphones or IEMs, but when it comes to earbuds, I'd say they're like a darker sounding K319 with much better bass, which is top tier in my opinion. The K319 was extremely bright with insane amounts of treble detail but these are less bright than those and just as detailed. They definitely beat the Senn MX580 and MX880 in all respects, and there's no competition with the cheaper AKG Y15 (15€). There is lots of micro details, bass is punchy and not bloated, and midrange is ok. Vocals sound very nice on those, especially female vocals. These can also resolve fast and "messy" music very well, stuff like uplifting trance, japanese eurobeat, chiptune and stuff like that definitely sounds good and well defined. Classical also sounds good to me, I'm no connoisseur and unfortunately I've never been to a live performance, but I think my favourite classical cd (Vivaldi La Stravaganza by Rachel Podger) sounds very good, not as good as my Senn HD558 obviously but totally listenable.
 Something that I expected to be better is Soundstage, it's there but I feel like there's something missing, sound is not as spacy as I hoped, but still pretty good for earbuds.
 Finally, one note on the volume, these are insanely loud, you will blow your ears off if you max out the volume on a PC. On my PC, the AKG Y15 needs 90-100 to sound loud, these are loud enough at 40. My phones can drive these well enough, volume is good at around 70%. Unfortunately since Android only has 15 steps, there's quite a bit of a sound gap between say, 12 and 13, so since these are this crazy loud you'll have some songs sounding either too low or too loud.
  
 Prices MX580 (35€) E100 (20€) Y15 (15€)
 Comfort MX580 (literally perfect for me) -> Y15 (just as good as the MX but slightly bigger) ----> E100 (average)
 Build Quality Y15 (metal meshes, high quality plastic, ok cable) ----> E100 (good cable, good plastic) -> Mx580 (crappy everything)
 Sound E100 (highest details and bass quality) -> MX580 (laid back, darker, good detail) ----> Y15 (muddy)
 Volume output E100 ----> MX580 ---------> Y15
  
 There's no K319 because I broke them, I can only remember their impressive clarity. Also note that E100doesn't have a volume control, MX580 has it but it's worthless and has been uneven and with huge gaps since day one, Y15 has it and it works well (same piece as the one on K319 actually).
  
 Thanks for reading, I'll update this if the sound changes with burn in or if I find out something else about them. Now I'm waiting for the JiuShao, hoping the do arrive at some point.


----------



## golov17

Mrice Baldoor e100 for $12


----------



## golov17

Blox BE7 mk1 за $65
 Blox BE3 mk1 за $31


----------



## waynes world

golov17 said:


> Blox BE7 mk1 за $65
> Blox BE3 mk1 за $31


 
  
 Golov, you seem to have a weeee bit of experience with earbuds lol. My first and only pair of earbuds comprise of the VE Zen and Asura beta. I didn't think I'd really like earbuds in general, but it turns out that I like them better than iems (I find them much more comfortable and healthier for the ears also imo), and the Zens are now probably my most listened to head gear (due to many factors including SQ).
  
 I know that you also like the Zens, so my question to you is, what other earbuds would you consider worthy for an earbud neophyte?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## golov17

Вlox BE5,7 Edifier H101,185


----------



## waynes world

golov17 said:


> Вlox BE5,7 Edifier H101,185


 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Daijiro

golov17 said:


> Вlox BE5,7 Edifier H101,185


golov, i saw your posts about Coogoo dx400 & suvov s20. 
My local seller starting to sell them. 
Which one have better bass & vocal quality? 

And how about meizu ep21hd? Is it have thin bass just like DIY Powerbeats?


----------



## Expansion

mrk1 said:


> Hey everyone. I got the E100 yesterday and I've been playing with them for a while. The exact model I bought was the "GranVela Mrice E100". Box is marked Mrice and comes with the headphones in a small plastic bag and two pairs of foams (one donut type). Headphones are marked "Baldoor" on the plug, so yeah there's some weird chinese corporation stuff going on with these in Europe. These costed me 20€ shipped.
> 
> That being said, a quick first impression review.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you for the review. However, I'm afraid about that dark sound. I don't like it to be dark, i want it to be airy, even if it's only distortion. 
 About Awei ES10, you can forget them. The more I listen to them, the more I realize that they have a bad voicing. They don't sound right, detailed, nor engaging.
 Back to scratch again, I don't know what to buy. E100 were on my shopping list, but now I have some doubts.


----------



## golov17

daijiro said:


> golov, i saw your posts about Coogoo dx400 & suvov s20.
> My local seller starting to sell them.
> Which one have better bass & vocal quality?
> 
> And how about meizu ep21hd? Is it have thin bass just like DIY Powerbeats?


Cogoo DX400 for vocal, Suvov S20 for rock, pop music. Meizu EP21HD not recomended..


----------



## golov17

Handing out advice, it is not rewarding activity, lol. All that I say, IMHO, based on my personal preference and experience. Please, take it critically


----------



## Daijiro

golov17 said:


> Cogoo DX400 for vocal, Suvov S20 for rock, pop music. Meizu EP21HD not recomended..


thanks bro 
Looks like dx400 suit me best.. 

If i ask you about Jiushao e300 vs ve monk, which one would you choose for all rounder listening? 
Both have almost similar price


----------



## golov17

Really only Monk  
 I no listen new Monk, lol


----------



## Danneq

I've got the Baldoor Earbell E100, which is the same as Mrice E100. I would not consider them dark. I've also got the AKG K319 in my somewhat too big collection, and the K319 are a bit brighter than the E100. Bass is better overall on the E100. To me, the K319 lack depth in the soundstage and instrument separation is so so. E100 has got a better depth than the K319 and better instrument separation. So overall, I prefer the E100 to the K319. But I like the sort of dry sound of the K319 which is why I keep them. Also, they have good synergy with my somewhat digital sounding Cowon MP3 players (X5 and S9). My E100 don't go well together with my Cowon DAP:s and highs become too harsh and bright.

 My biggest problem with the E100 is the fit. They are a bit too big and the earbud housing lacks a stem that can help secure the earbuds in my ears. Considering price/performance, I put the E100 on the number 1 position on my earbud list. They are not the best sounding ones, but definitely in my top 10 list. I've bought earbuds for 10 times the price of the E100 that don't sound as good...


----------



## Expansion

Danneq, thank you for the input.
  
 Can you also enumerate the top 10 earbuds for you, regardless of price?


----------



## Topazus

How come the Sennheiser MX 375 and MX365 are barely mentioned here? Are these cheap crappy earbuds not even worthy of the briefest commentary?
  
Quite surprising because elsewhere on the web, they are well discussed, reviewed... Just not here.


----------



## Danneq

expansion said:


> Danneq, thank you for the input.
> 
> Can you also enumerate the top 10 earbuds for you, regardless of price?


 


 Well, I can only roughly rank the earbuds since my preferences might change and different earbuds will have different synergy with different sources.

 My number 1 and 2 earbuds are pretty much constant, and it will take a lot for an earbud to make it into my top 5.

 Please note that many of my earbuds are discontinued...

 1. Blox TM7 (balance, detail and just about anything I could want from an earbud)
 2. Sennheiser MX980 (Very close to Blox TM7 in sound except for bass not being as good)
 3. Sony MDR E252 (Vintage Sony earbud that also is close to TM7, although not as good)
 4. Sony MDR E282 (Another vintage Sony earbud)
 5. Sony MDR E484 (Perhaps the most legendary Sony vintage earbud. Bass is amazingly deep but still bass detail is great)
 6. Aiwa HP D9 (Top end Aiwa earbud from the early 90's. It is not very balanced since bass is very poor, but the highs are amazing and detail and soundstage is out of this world).
 7. Baldoor Earbell E100 (Great detail and soundstage and a pretty good balanced pair of earbuds)
 8. Blox BE3 (a bit more bassy than the E100. Great sound considering they cost only $38 with shipping included...)
 9. Aiwa HP V2 (really old Aiwa earbuds that still sound quite good. A bit thin but still detailed and sweet sound).
 10. Dasetn M760 (A better version of the Sennheiser MX760. I owned the MX760 but sold them since they sounded a bit artificial to me. M760 has got a big soundstage like the MX760 but a much more natural sound)

 (I would probably place AKG K319 on place 11 or 12...)


 If I were to make a list of only earbuds that are currenntly sold it would probably be something like this:
 1. Baldoor Earbell E100
 2. Blox BE3
 3. Dasetn M760
 4. Pioneer SE-CE521K
 5. Dasetn M1/MX1 (MX was an earlier version of M1 with better quality cable)
 6. KZ OMX2 (quite dark sounding, but with with some EQing, they sound very good)
 7. Yuin PK2
 8. Tingo TC100

 I think I'll leave it at 8 since the other ones of my earbuds that currently are in production do not really qualify...

 Right now, the only earbud I'm waiting for is the new flagship earbud from Blox. If it beats the TM7, it will be my new number 1...


----------



## golov17

Why you no buy VE earbuds?? Great buds


----------



## MRK1

expansion said:


> Thank you for the review. However, I'm afraid about that dark sound. I don't like it to be dark, i want it to be airy, even if it's only distortion.
> About Awei ES10, you can forget them. The more I listen to them, the more I realize that they have a bad voicing. They don't sound right, detailed, nor engaging.
> Back to scratch again, I don't know what to buy. E100 were on my shopping list, but now I have some doubts.


 
 I said they were slightly darker than the K319 which was insanely bright. I always use some bass boost on my earbuds because they always lack bass and I like a bit of warmth in the low end. You really can't go wrong with these, especially if you order from those dirt cheap asian sites. I'm very impressed with them to be honest.
  


danneq said:


> I've got the Baldoor Earbell E100, which is the same as Mrice E100. I would not consider them dark. I've also got the AKG K319 in my somewhat too big collection, and the K319 are a bit brighter than the E100. Bass is better overall on the E100. To me, the K319 lack depth in the soundstage and instrument separation is so so. E100 has got a better depth than the K319 and better instrument separation. So overall, I prefer the E100 to the K319. But I like the sort of dry sound of the K319 which is why I keep them. Also, they have good synergy with my somewhat digital sounding Cowon MP3 players (X5 and S9). My E100 don't go well together with my Cowon DAP:s and highs become too harsh and bright.
> 
> My biggest problem with the E100 is the fit. They are a bit too big and the earbud housing lacks a stem that can help secure the earbuds in my ears. Considering price/performance, I put the E100 on the number 1 position on my earbud list. They are not the best sounding ones, but definitely in my top 10 list. I've bought earbuds for 10 times the price of the E100 that don't sound as good...


 
 100% agree. I don't remember the K319 perfectly other than the unmatched clarity which was perfect for trance. Fit may be an issue but at least in my case they fit well, if you're very used to earbuds you shouldn't have any problem with fit.


----------



## Danneq

golov17 - I have noticed that cheap Chinese earbuds are not too far from expensive brand earbuds. I used to collect vintage Sony and Aiwa earbuds. These 20-30 year old earbuds are still amazing! But why pay $300 for something when I can get a pair of earbuds that sound almost as good for $30? Well, when collecting vintage equipment you are mostly paying for the exclusivity of owning something that has not been sold for many many years...

 If I were sure to find something that beat Blox TM7, I would buy it even if it cost $100-$200. But right now I'm, happy with what I've got...


----------



## golov17

Reasonable position. Let me just say that according ClieOS VE impressive brand, and I fully agree with him.


----------



## golov17

But,i have a rare Suvov S30 and Samsung Pleomax PEP760,970 I much pleased with them, even though they cost me less than $ 30 for all.


----------



## golov17

On the other hand, in the big leagues earbuds no one can win, IMHO. This is already self-sufficient products with individual character sounds signature .. So, your expectations may be longer times ..


----------



## cocopro

Hey Clieos, any update on the Edifier series? I'm particularly interested in H190 because everyone seems to praise H185 and ignore the flagship=)


----------



## golov17

cocopro said:


> Hey Clieos, any update on the Edifier series? I'm particularly interested in H190 because everyone seems to praise H185 and ignore the flagship=)


http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up-update-april-25th-2015/780#post_11560505


----------



## golov17

Also, 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up-update-april-25th-2015/825#post_11572568


----------



## cocopro

Thanks golov17, did you get the dual drive DIY buds?


----------



## golov17

Yes, but this defective..


----------



## cocopro

Damn, I feel you man, the pain of international return shipping or "screw this I'm gonna fix it myself"


----------



## golov17

Only cable in memory.. for DIY, maybe.. 



Spoiler


----------



## gacyde

wah no one answer some guest like me
 nevermind


----------



## Raketen

gacyde said:


> wah no one answer some guest like me
> nevermind


 


gacyde said:


> Hi all
> which best at all these criteria
> 1. clarity
> 2. soundstage
> ...


 
 Too much homework already 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I only have one earbud, so I cannot comment, but did you read ClieOS's list? the first few that I think are still in production that mention those things - DIY Powerbeats knockoff, Creative Aurvana Air, Blox M2c, Tingo TC-100, Baldoor E100


----------



## golov17

http://www.tellementnomade.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=7420


----------



## ClieOS

gacyde said:


> Hi all
> which best at all these criteria
> 1. clarity
> 2. soundstage
> ...


 
  
  


gacyde said:


> wah no one answer some guest like me
> nevermind


 
  
 If anything, it is not because you are a 'guest'.
  
 If might not occur to you, but you are really asking the wrong question, the wrong way. This kind of non-specific question generally get ignored everywhere, because you think we have some quick answer tucked away somewhere just waiting for anyone to ask. You assumed people have the time to rank all the their earbuds on different criteria, though the process of getting the answer is neither simple nor fast (*don't know about others, but it will take me a good day or two, assuming I have no better thing to do) - not to mention they will need a decently large collection (*sample size) to ensure the answer is at least making sense in some way, not just for you but also for others who read the forum. That being said, it is just too much work.
  
 If you want more (or just any) people to respond, then ask a more specific question. If you can't come up with a specific question, then do more research and reading on your own until you can. If that still doesn't get you anywhere, sometime you just have to follow your guts and pick something up for your own, then either be glad or regret it later - because sometime we just don't have all the answer ready for everyone.


----------



## kjk1281

Very eloquently put!

To quote and reappropriate a saying from one of my high school teachers: Head-Fi is not a drive-thru window.


----------



## davakhrs

I'm looking for earbud for all rounder listening under 15$ & 10$ for my sister. Got any suggestions?


----------



## golov17

Buy Suvov S20 for himself and his sister, or Edifier H101,185


----------



## gacyde

clieos said:


> If anything, it is not because you are a 'guest'.
> 
> If might not occur to you, but you are really asking the wrong question, the wrong way. This kind of non-specific question generally get ignored everywhere, because you think we have some quick answer tucked away somewhere just waiting for anyone to ask. You assumed people have the time to rank all the their earbuds on different criteria, though the process of getting the answer is neither simple nor fast (*don't know about others, but it will take me a good day or two, assuming I have no better thing to do) - not to mention they will need a decently large collection (*sample size) to ensure the answer is at least making sense in some way, not just for you but also for others who read the forum. That being said, it is just too much work.
> 
> If you want more (or just any) people to respond, then ask a more specific question. If you can't come up with a specific question, then do more research and reading on your own until you can. If that still doesn't get you anywhere, sometime you just have to follow your guts and pick something up for your own, then either be glad or regret it later - because sometime we just don't have all the answer ready for everyone.


 


 I'm sorry sir
 Thanks for your feedback
 __________
  
 Hi all
 Sorry for before
  
 I need earbuds for monitor mixing, my budget is arround $50
  
 Thanks for your feedback


----------



## Ucong

i am curious Golov... may i ask your opinion by rank about these budget earbuds: VE Monk, JS E300 and JS E600?


----------



## golov17

Hmm, good question .. IMHO, Monk > E300 ≥ E600. In general indicators..


----------



## Ucong

thx for the quick answer.. hehe...


----------



## Expansion

I've ordered a pair of Mrice E100.


----------



## golov17

All Blox sold out on the site


----------



## gacyde

raketen said:


> Too much homework already
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes i read already
 But don't know which one best for monitoring


----------



## ClieOS

Actually I would think earbuds are not a particularly good choice for monitoring / mixing. None of them really has flat enough response and the result of mixing might end up sounding very different on loudspeaker.


----------



## Ucong

and for ClieOS, Jiushao E300 v E600 which one will you prefer?  

#from the SQ not the price


----------



## gacyde

clieos said:


> Actually I would think earbuds are not a particularly good choice for monitoring / mixing. None of them really has flat enough response and the result of mixing might end up sounding very different on loudspeaker.


 

 The worst option for that sir?


----------



## ClieOS

ucong said:


> and for ClieOS, Jiushao E300 v E600 which one will you prefer?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Won't say one of obviously better than the other. For mainstream music, I'll pick E300. For instrument and Classical, probably E600.
  


gacyde said:


> The worst option for that sir?


 
  
 Add $9 more to your $50 budget and you can get Etymotic MK5, which is about as reference flat as it can be under $100. But it is an IEM, not an earbud. To mix with earbuds, or with any kind of headphone, you need to beware not to over compensate. The point is to understand what you listen on headphone will not be the same as on loudspeaker.


----------



## golov17

Spoiler: If you like earbuds, and you still do not have Philips SHE3800, then you have to buy them


----------



## Ucong

well, thx again Mr. "C"..


----------



## mebaali

Philips SHE 1360/97 -  Not sure if this has been discussed here before, just wanted to share my experience with these cheap earbuds. I bought these for Indian rupee 90 (roughly US$ 1.5) few months back from amazon. For such low price, these earbuds are surprisingly very good sounding ones for me.
 
I am no aural expert but to my ears, these are sounding more airy, 3 dimensional, and lively than many of the costly earphones/buds that I have used before. I also couldn't find any exaggerated bass or treble peaks (though i do feel there is a slight bit of prominence of mids) with these. I found them to be easy to drive with most of my audio devices (especially with my 6 years old Nokia N97, 3 years old Galaxy Y) but when used with Topping NX1, these excels even better.
 
These are relatively bigger sized buds which may cause discomfort around the inner ear (or whatever it is called) when worn for long hours. In my case, by wearing it not too tight (i mean not pushing it too closer/inside the ears) and adding a earbud cover/cushion makes away with inner ear discomfort and I can use it for extended periods of listening. #YMMV
  
 http://www.amazon.in/Philips-SHE1360-97-Headphone-Black/dp/B005YH826S


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> Spoiler: If you like earbuds, and you still do not have Philips SHE3800, then you have to buy them
> 
> 
> 
> *If you like earbuds, and you still do not have Philips SHE3800, then you have to buy them*


 
 I ended up getting a pair.  $6USD on Lunashops.  http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=1116
  

  
  
 If they were my first pair of earbuds, I would be happy with them, but they are just OK IMO.
  
 The cable is a little prone to microphonics.  They are just a tad muddy for my taste as well.
  
 One of the more comfortable earbuds I have tried and they are surprisingly light.
  
 The Suvov S20 is still my top budget earbud, though I am EAGERLY waiting the arrival of the VE Monk.
  
  
 ..


----------



## Raketen

Koss is having a 20% off promotion on their website, which brings the price down to about what they normally cost everywhere else 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyone rate their earbuds at all? They even have some camoflage ones, in case you're a Treant or something...


----------



## MRK1

How would you compare the Earbell E100 to the JiuShao offerings? I'm still waiting on them but so far I'm super impressed with the E100, it just sounds amazingly good (for an earbud), sound seems to be improving, not sure if it's burn in or I'm just getting addicted to their sound signature.


----------



## ClieOS

mrk1 said:


> How would you compare the Earbell E100 to the JiuShao offerings? I'm still waiting on them but so far I'm super impressed with the E100, it just sounds amazingly good (for an earbud), sound seems to be improving, not sure if it's burn in or I'm just getting addicted to their sound signature.


 
  
 If you like E100, keep it. JiuShao is more like side-stepping and the sound signature is very different.


----------



## RedJohn456

I was listening to the Monk today, and I think its pretty impressive, specially considering their price. They are supposed to get better with a bit of burn in as well (the bass especially). I wasn't expecting it to sound as well it does, so needless to say I was pleasantly surprised!


----------



## ronako

Where can you buy the VE Monk?


----------



## RedJohn456

ronako said:


> Where can you buy the VE Monk?


 
  
 It will be available on their aliexpress store soon. I am just helping to give some feedback on it before its fully released.


----------



## RedJohn456

here are some pics of the monk, I also posted it in the VE thread as well.
  

  
  

  
 The cable is very sturdy to say the least! Will refrain from commenting on sound specifics till I burn it in


----------



## golov17

Well, how are Monk?


----------



## kedip3x

They're good hehehe


----------



## golov17




----------



## RedJohn456

golov17 said:


> Well, how are Monk?


 

 Sorry man haven't had as much ear time with them as I would like. will listen some more later and post some impressions if I get a chance.


----------



## golov17

OK man


----------



## golov17

Tuna cm6


Spoiler






Clear sound, good bass, low price. Recomended


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> Tuna cm6
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


 
 They are even slightly cheaper from the Official Tuna Shop:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tuna-CM6-Original-headset-heavy-bass-headpone-mobile-phone-earphones-HIFI-headset-noise-cancelling-music-stereo/32248306886.html
  
  
  
 EDIT, these also use the exact same housing as the Dasetn AP8, but don't buy the ones below, they are AWFUL!
  
 http://www.dasetn.com/1pcsmod-ap8-clear-sound-earbuds-earphone-professional-diy_p3297.html?zenid=9b8a2ca82fbda8adfa221bc3c13f952d


----------



## golov17

Thanks 
Better to take a red cord, black hard


----------



## golov17

VE MONK on SALE for $8


----------



## Ruben123

golov17 said:


> VE MONK on SALE for $8




How are they?


----------



## golov17

I dont, i use old Monk, its goood


----------



## golov17

25 h burn, Tuna cm-6, very nice  

Recomended for all bass lovers  
Very not bad for $7


----------



## AkashDesign

I'm surprised Xoami headphones aren't mentioned...


----------



## kurtextrem

mrk1 said:


> Hey everyone. I got the E100 yesterday and I've been playing with them for a while. The exact model I bought was the "GranVela Mrice E100". Box is marked Mrice and comes with the headphones in a small plastic bag and two pairs of foams (one donut type). Headphones are marked "Baldoor" on the plug, so yeah there's some weird chinese corporation stuff going on with these in Europe. These costed me 20€ shipped.
> 
> That being said, a quick first impression review.
> 
> ...


 
 I don't know if I got used to the AKG Y15 / 16 so much, but for me the "muddy" is "clearer", it sounds nearer and more detailed. The E100 sounds somehow tinny to me. Should I get used to the E100? 
 I mainly use them for gaming (ajajaja, I'm probably the only guy in the world who uses earbuds for gaming. But my ears get to hot under everything else and in ears hurt during long gaming sessions. Earbuds are perfect: Cold ears, not hurting)


----------



## BloodyPenguin

@golov17

 Thank you for the suggestion of the HieGi foam covers. They are built consistent and strong. The cut outs are all lined up dead center. The foam itself is soft yet durable.

 These are so much better than the ones you can buy off of eBay.

 I also contacted a representative from HieGi and they were able to add the Middle Empty versions up on Amazon.

 White: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B011AXWY2W/

 Black: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B011AXO90C/


----------



## golov17

Well, OK, HIEGI: it is important to remember - foams without holes - thick, add a lot of bass, but with holes - thin and does not add a lot of bass.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> Well, OK, HIEGI: it is important to remember - foams without holes - thick, add a lot of bass, but with holes - thin and does not add a lot of bass.


 
  
 Great info!
  
 ..


----------



## Daijiro

Panasonic hj 329 >> is it worth for the price? 
Wanna try but, It's almost twice the e600


----------



## ClieOS

daijiro said:


> Panasonic hj 329 >> is it worth for the price?
> Wanna try but, It's almost twice the e600


 
  
 If you are looking on value for money, then I'll suggest you keep the E600 instead.


----------



## golov17

Ucotech from Japan (korean?) for $160 & $250


----------



## Expansion

I've received the Mrice E100 headphones yesterday.
  
 For the moment all that I can say is that they sound rich and very dynamic. 
 They also have a high sensitivity, which can cause noise issues depending on your source.


----------



## p4s2p0

clieos said:


> Actually I would think earbuds are not a particularly good choice for monitoring / mixing. None of them really has flat enough response and the result of mixing might end up sounding very different on loudspeaker.


 
 That would be an opinion with how many musicians use earbuds for live performances.


----------



## ClieOS

p4s2p0 said:


> That would be an opinion with how many musicians use earbuds for live performances.


 
  
 Musicians these days use mostly IEM, not earbuds.
  
 Also, in live performance, musicians will have their IEM running (either wired or wireless) from a mixing console and usually each performers has his/her individual channel customized specifically to his/her need, which doesn't really have much to do with SQ but more to do with keeping everyone on the same page. For example, most members in a band will probably have a heavier mix of drum into their channel because drummer is usually the one who set the pace of the song. The singer in the band will require more mixing of his/her own voice back into the channel or else the pitch will be wrong.
  
 In contrast, monitoring / mixing for making music is very difference from stage monitoring - where stage monitor is focusing on getting individual performer the mix they need to perform, monitoring / mixing music is about getting the right sound you want for the recording.


----------



## golov17

Nice comment, thanks


----------



## kurtextrem

expansion said:


> I've received the Mrice E100 headphones yesterday.
> 
> For the moment all that I can say is that they sound rich and very dynamic.
> They also have a high sensitivity, which can cause noise issues depending on your source.


 
 I still can't get used to them. For me the AKG Y15/16 sound just better.


----------



## golov17

in my experience with the AKG K317,319, I will say that after hearing them difficult to adapt to other sound signature, IMHO


----------



## golov17

Habit is second nature..


----------



## golov17

I recabled this, fine out..


----------



## Expansion

The problem is that I can't listen to them on my work laptop because it has a noisy output, which is enhanced by E100. 
 Other headphones do not do this.


----------



## golov17

buy this buds


----------



## Expansion

I think I'll stop with these acquisitions. There's nothing that special, it's all a matter of taste.
 I want to buy a pair of on-ears similar to PX-100, but more airy, and I'm done.


----------



## golov17

Good luck


----------



## Danneq

expansion said:


> I think I'll stop with these acquisitions. There's nothing that special, it's all a matter of taste.
> I want to buy a pair of on-ears similar to PX-100, but more airy, and I'm done.


 


 You could try to find a pair of Yuin G2A. I bought a pair on Ebay a few years ago and they sound wonderful. Very airy and detailed. You can still find the more expensive G1A on Ebay. The G1A is 150 OHM and The G2A is 60 OHM, so that's why I chose the G2A. I can no longer find the G2A on Ebay, but I did find a store on Aliexpress that sells them. I think the price is a bit high (I paid around $40 for my pair), and I am always a bit cautious about Chinese sellers.
 You can also find Dunu DN-C60II on Ebay. Not as good as the Yuin clip-on earphones in my opinion, but still very good. Perhaps the Dunu is a safer choice than the Yuin G2A. Or if you are prepared to pay for the Yuin G1A...


----------



## golov17

Yuin G2a for $31 on Taobao


----------



## garysohn

Where do find the "donut" type of covers for Baldoor E100? I looked on Amazon and could not find them. thank you.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

garysohn said:


> Where do find the "donut" type of covers for Baldoor E100? I looked on Amazon and could not find them. thank you.


 
 SHENZHENAUDIO was really cool and put these up on Amazon at my request.  (Though no Prime Shipping Available).
  
 $5 with free shipping for either set of 6 pairs.
  
  
 Black: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B011AXO90C/
  
 White:  http://www.amazon.com/dp/B011AXWY2W/
  
 ..


----------



## RedJohn456

garysohn said:


> Where do find the "donut" type of covers for Baldoor E100? I looked on Amazon and could not find them. thank you.


 

 Same here. The foams with the Baldoor are the best I have used personally and would like to find a source where I can buy a pack of it.


----------



## RedJohn456

bloodypenguin said:


> SHENZHENAUDIO was really cool and put these up on Amazon at my request.  (Though no Prime Shipping Available).
> 
> $5 with free shipping for either set of 6 pairs.
> 
> ...


 

 they are shipping directly from China right? How long would it take to reach u?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

redjohn456 said:


> they are shipping directly from China right? How long would it take to reach u?


 
 From China, correct.  Took less than two weeks for me I believe.
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

All the same, for a game without an amplifier, Sennheiser mx980 very best to my ears 
Very delicate sound signature..


----------



## kurtextrem

golov17 said:


> buy this buds


 
 Difference between http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-100-Original-VJJB-C1-Diy-Hifi-Metal-Earphones-Heatshrinked-Mobile-Phone-Computer-Sports-mp3/32372533758.html  and http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-100-Original-VJJB-C1-Diy-hifi-metal-earphones-heatshrinked-mobile-phone-computer-sports-mp3/32352727004.html ? Seems like the second has a red foam and the first doesn't?


----------



## golov17

C1S with mic, C1 without mic. Done.


----------



## kurtextrem

golov17 said:


> C1S with mic, C1 without mic. Done.


 
 Thanks, but check the links again. Both offer the C1 variant, yet only one link shows the red foam.


----------



## golov17




----------



## kurtextrem

golov17 said:


>


 
 Yes.. that is the one where u see the red foam. But here: http://de.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-100-Original-VJJB-C1-Diy-Hifi-Metal-Earphones-Heatshrinked-Mobile-Phone-Computer-Sports-mp3/32372533758.html you don't. That probably means it doesn't have them (although it's the same earbud)?


----------



## golov17

The price has risen, lol


----------



## golov17

Try to use the mobile version of the site or ask a question to seller


----------



## golov17

Anybody willing to give me Blox TM7 instead of all these ??


----------



## MrHubert

Hey all, following Golov's advice, I'll paste one of my posts here:
  
 Hey guys, Hubert here. I've been reading your posts for some time now, and finally decided to join the community.
  
 Thought you might be interested in the fact I've been using the Sudio TVÅ for a couple of weeks now (it seems quite absent from Head-Fi). Or maybe I missed the posts, so... let me know if you wanna know more.
  
 Also, I was planning to sell my Baldoor e100, as I was finding them quite... flat, in despite of the good clarity, and then I read about turning them 90 degrees in the ear and... wow. I know some of you don't approve the trick, but still, in my case it does fit better, and the soundstage opens up like anything! The bass is also more present... definitely sticking to them!
 Isn't it a bit like how manufacturers incline the drivers of their full-size headphones? Or maybe I'm being ridiculously naive, eheh 
 Still... thanks a ton to the guy who posted abt it first!
 (I must precise I am a fan of big wide-open cans, and listen mostly to acoustic folk, jazz or blues...)
  
 Then, I thought "why not trying the same thing with my HiFiman ES100" -on my list of items to sell too-, and obtained the same huge improvement. The fit is not that satisfying though, but still kinda works.
  
 Finally, just received my yearly salary premium, and ordered the Celsus Sound Gramo One... should reach in a couple of weeks.
 Will tell my impressions then, if anybody is interested. I really hope they'll be worth the crazy investment.


----------



## golov17

Well, we all look forward to your impressions of expensive earbuds


----------



## golov17

http://www.celsus-sound.com/index.php/product/gramo-one


----------



## MrHubert

Oh, ok, so I'll start with the TVÅ by Sudio, from Sweden (can't post pics yet due to my newbie profile).
 Just take into consideration I'm just a "Junior Head-Fier", so... far from an expert audiophile and reviewer. But I can hear and type, that should help.

 First of all, the presentation is pretty good, essential and modern, with a classy touch of retro, but there are too many stylish-though-awfully-sounding headphones, so lets focus on what really matters.
  
 The fit is simply really good, like all their similarly designed siblings on the market.

 The build is good I would say, even though fully in plastic... and the flat tangle-free cable quite efficient -not tangling-. There's a one-button remote which is kind of solid (that's one pretty week point of the Mrice e100a IMHO, their remote is super cheap and feels it's constantly on the verge of breaking). But again, we don't buy these for their remotes.
 In despite of what I just wrote, I wouldn't say the general feeling is of great strength, especially considering their price (around 45 USD!).

 More important, how do they sound.
 Generally, I find them slightly on the dark side (especially compared to the e100), but still, the highs are not absent. Just a bit more recessed. Can be a partially compensated at an EQ level.
 The bass is more present and deep than the Mrice e100's or HiFiMan es100's (normal fit), but not artificially pumped-up. I feel what they tried to do is an analytical earbud, but on the engaging side. I would not call it "fun"... absolutely different from my HiSoundAudio PAA-1, which to me sounds heavily equalized and sort of messy at the end.
 What I immediately liked about the TVÅ is their soundstage. It is well extended horizontally, and has a satisfying depth too. Then the separation and definition is pretty good, what always gives a sense of good SQ.
 At the end, without being "exciting", they made me want to re-listen to all my tracks again.

 So, generally, I would definitely not put them is the stylish-but-awfully-sounding category.
  
 Still, the real question is are they worth their price??
 I have not had the chance to try any Blox earbud,VE, Dasetn -non-US international purchases not easy from India, where I work- and had to return the Yuin PK1 I had ordered because their left bud was silent (not much of a welding guy yet :/ ), so I couldn't compare with what you guys seem to be well aware of, but... - here comes the major drawback-
  
 >> Since I read about turning the e100 90 degrees in the outer-ear - and did the same with my es100-, well, the soundstage of the TVÅ has been outclassed by both, their bass impact almost reached, and as I mentioned their treble was already more recessed, so... I simply stopped using them.
 I feel sorry about admitting it, because I had really been pleasantly surprised by them right out of the box, and had decided to sell both e100 and es100, as well as PAA-1 and ATH-c505iS (of course), but now I'll be keeping the two first ones instead.
  
 My feeling is then that if you guys should spend 45 USD to get them, you would surely find them not worth the price.
 Still, they sound good in my opinion.

 That's it, my first mini-review trial, hopefully not too vague and useless! :/


----------



## golov17

Where did you find them for $45??


----------



## sepinho

golov17 said:


> Yuin G2a for $31 on Taobao


 
  
 Can we be sure it's legit?
  


golov17 said:


> All the same, for a game without an amplifier, Sennheiser mx980 very best to my ears
> Very delicate sound signature..


 
  
 I love the MX980 and regret not buying one when they were still produced. I'm regularly browsing Ebay for used ones, but they seem to be really rare.


----------



## golov17

I ordered one more Yuin g2a, will tell more after ..


----------



## golov17

Sennheiser mx985 from Korea for all world


----------



## MrHubert

Well, from an Indian website! I work and live there.


----------



## golov17

World wide shipping for this??


----------



## MrHubert

golov17 said:


> Where did you find them for $45??


 
 (Sorry, forgot the quote)
 Also, it seems to be the price from their official website, with free international shipping.


----------



## MrHubert

golov17 said:


> World wide shipping for this??


 

 Yeah, it seems: http://www.sudiosweden.com/en/earphones-collection


----------



## golov17

This?

Thx for link


----------



## MrHubert

golov17 said:


> This?
> 
> Thx for link


 

 Yes, this


----------



## sepinho

golov17 said:


> Sennheiser mx985 from Korea for all world


 
 Awesome find, thank you. But unfortunately "International Shipping: Germany is not available"
 Isn't that ironic, a German being denied to buy a German product from a Korean shop?


----------



## golov17

Germany available, Indonesia is not available.


----------



## golov17

http://mg.gmarket.co.kr/Item?goodscode=371363265


----------



## garysohn

I ordered those "donuts" from Amazon.  When I placed the order they said "to be shipped Sept 12-23". But later in the day I received word they had already shipped.


----------



## apenjuri

Hello Folks,
  
 After going through the thread, i wanted a suggestion from you guys.
  
 I am looking for an earbud with the following features.
  
 1. In-line MIC.
 2. No Cable Noise.
  
 My Budget is $15 to $20.
  
 Please suggest some.
  
 Thanks In Advance...


----------



## golov17

VE Monk, Edifier H101,185, Baldoor E100


----------



## apenjuri

Hi golov17,
  
 Thanks for quick reply.
  
 I have considered VE Monk initially and when i contacted the seller on Ali Express, got the response that it has some cable noise. Also, seller is not even has the product image which shows up the MIC.
  
 So, i ended up dropping it.
  
 Will look into your other suggestions too.
  
 Thanks...


----------



## golov17

Do you want it with a microphone?


----------



## apenjuri

Yes golov17.


----------



## golov17

Edifier H185P, IMHO


----------



## golov17

Blue ever blue 328RM


----------



## golov17

golov17 said:


> I ordered one more Yuin g2a, will tell more after ..


 sold out


----------



## Raketen

Curious abou those G2a... love clip-ons, but the clips look the same as KSC75 which I have never had last longer than a month or two 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Have you tried the Dunu dual-driver ones? I have only ever seen them listed on Penon http://penonaudio.com/DUNU-DN-C60II
 There was some rumor on one of the clip-on threads that audio technica may be bringing the ath-em7x back in china or something, would be nice...


----------



## golov17

G2A best of the best clip for price


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> G2A best of the best clip for price


 
 Not that these are earbuds at all...  but I want a pair.  I love my KSC75 headband mod.
  
  
 Ok, back to earbuds now...  
  
 ..


----------



## Raketen

hehe, yeah sorry... just all the clip on threads seem kinda dead, figured this was the best place to ask about untrendy form factors


----------



## golov17

G2a mod


----------



## knives

golov17 said:


> G2a mod


 
 Do you know where i can buy a headband like this one?


----------



## golov17

Koss PortaPro lol


----------



## tsirorret

Hi golov17,

I'm newbie here. I'm just amazed by your experience in earbuds and your contribution to this thread. I'm just wondering, could you share your own top 10 best earbuds?
Thank you.


----------



## golov17

Thank you for the nice words, but I love them all, and sometimes I need shorts, sometimes coat .. ideal is not there, IMHO. Rating is not my prerogative to say that I agree with the distinguished ClieOS, he gives honest performance and I recommend everyone to follow his opinion. He still speaks truthfully


----------



## golov17

But, i dont like JBL Tempo J02, Vsonic UU2, Jiushao E600, Suvov S700, also Sunrise Feeling, Tingo TG38S, Baldoor E100


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I don't like: Tingo TG38S, MUSA SP2, Dasetn AP8, Dasetn PK3, Philips SHE3800, MEIZU PT850, Sony E0921 and AKG K318.


----------



## golov17

I think you got fake SHE3800, IMHO


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> I think you got fake SHE3800, IMHO




I ordered from here: http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=1116

..


----------



## golov17

Cable Y or J? My 3800 Y


----------



## golov17

While everyone has their own ears... Also, it may be defective, of 5 pieces that I bought, only one was a perfect balance of sound. But I bought not Lunashop


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> Cable Y or J? My 3800 Y




I can't remember. 

..


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> While everyone has their own ears... Also, it may be defective, of 5 pieces that I bought, only one was a perfect balance of sound. But I bought not Lunashop




Maybe it was a fake, maybe it was just bad. Not sure.


----------



## golov17

The good news is that they are not worth the $$$, lol


----------



## tsirorret

I never tried the she 3800, but i do tried she 1350/1360. It's durable and cheap with unappropriate bass, i don't know how to say it, the bass covers other sounds. 
Or it's just me being a non-basshead, because right know i'm using sennheiser mx375 with lack of bass IMO, and i'm pretty happy with it.


----------



## kurtextrem

I wonder if anyone compared earbuds for gaming. I'm still using the AKG Y15/16 for that.


----------



## RedJohn456

kurtextrem said:


> I wonder if anyone compared earbuds for gaming. I'm still using the AKG Y15/16 for that.


 

 I used the Zen + Fiio E17 with my PS3 for gaming. For music I listen to it foamless, but for gaming, I use foam because the in game sound effects sound meatier if that makes any sense. 
  
 Earbuds are really good for gaming imo, because of the nice airy soundstage, and you can hear if people are calling for you etc.


----------



## rggz

Guys, I need help! 

 I just bought one pair of Baldoors/Mrice and I love how this small piece sounds big and I have a personal preference for vocals, so... I really like them. My question here is, What the most solid upgrade from this little bud of 15 bucks?

 My friend have one pair of MX985 for sell arround ~$250, this will be a huge upgrade? However I would like more options too, thanks!


----------



## Raketen

rggz said:


> Guys, I need help!
> 
> I just bought one pair of Baldoors/Mrice and I love how this small piece sounds big and I have a personal preference for vocals, so... I really like them. My question here is, What the most solid upgrade from this little bud of 15 bucks?
> 
> My friend have one pair of MX985 for sell arround ~$250, this will be a huge upgrade? However I would like more options too, thanks!


 

 little rough to pay such a premium for an out of production model
  
 I only have my one pair of earbuds in the ATH-cm707 so I am hesitant to recommend since I have so little experience with different buds, but I will say they have a bass-mids leaning kinda sound that is pretty nice for a lot of vocals. Going by what I've read on this thread you can probably find better for less, though.


----------



## golov17

rggz said:


> Guys, I need help!
> 
> 
> I just bought one pair of Baldoors/Mrice and I love how this small piece sounds big and I have a personal preference for vocals, so... I really like them. My question here is, What the most solid upgrade from this little bud of 15 bucks?
> ...


VE Monk, VE Asura, IMHO


----------



## golov17

Try Monk for $ 5, and if you like their sound signature, Asura will step up.


----------



## rggz

I appreciate the help guys, thanks! I'll try the VE sound house, maybe I try ATH in the future too, I have one pair of IM70 and enjoy them but the baldoors show me how earbuds sounds more "airy" over mid-fi IEMs and less "claustrophobic" in my ears, lol.


----------



## golov17

EarBudsMan


----------



## iyonk

Hi all..i'm newbie here. Being a silent reader on this thread for a months, and this thread really helps me choosing a good SQ earbuds. I dont really like a build quality from some of chinese brands mentioned on the list.
There is many cheap earbuds from well-known brands like philips and panasonic sells around $5-$20 in my country and it comes with 1-2 years warranty. Anyone tried them? Is it bad? How about the SQ compare to chinese brands on the same price? Thanks...


----------



## golov17

This thread is for all lovers of EarBuds from around the world, and all models, noteworthy are mentioned here with the aim to share with other worthy instances, whether from China, or from any other country. Austria AKG, Sennheiser Germany, Blox Thailand, Panasonic, Audio Technica, Pioneer Japan,Ubiquo, Cresyn Korea, VE, China, and so on. And it does not depend on the country and the availability of, but only on SQ, IMHO.


----------



## golov17

In addition, most of the major brands earbuds are made in factories in China, respectively, small companies from China are familiar with their sound and can offer their customers an new idea about the sound.


----------



## Raketen

*edit* well golov got there a few seconds before me


----------



## golov17

Spoiler






Nice sound from Korea for vocal lovers and acoustic music


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I know there are lots of cheap foam covers out there, but these are my favorite by Suvov:
  
 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=969229165
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

Suvov very good buds, agree


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Love the *Suvov S20*:  (My wife has the same pair in white).
  

  
 ..


----------



## kurtextrem

Today is a kind of sale on AliExpress. Any recommendations to buy? (earbuds or foams ofc)


----------



## golov17

⛔


----------



## oopeteroo

so my blox m2c broke =(
 been away for a while.
 So which one is the best for the buck earbud nowdays ?
 one that does not need an amp?


----------



## golov17

VE Monk, Asura, IMHO


----------



## kurtextrem

Speaking of Suvov: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-SUVOV-K700-earphone-computer-headset-with-microphone-stereo-headphone-2m-cable-free-shipping/32243977906.html How is this one (compared to Baldoor E100 or AKG Y15)?
 I'm also thinking about buying http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-original-VJJB-C1-C1S-customized-HIFI-metal-in-ear-headphones-earphones-with-Remote-and-Micphone/32274549971.html but the E100 doesn't fit my ear and as the shape is similar I guess that doesn't fit either.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

kurtextrem said:


> Speaking of Suvov: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-SUVOV-K700-earphone-computer-headset-with-microphone-stereo-headphone-2m-cable-free-shipping/32243977906.html How is this one (compared to Baldoor E100 or AKG Y15)?
> I'm also thinking about buying http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-original-VJJB-C1-C1S-customized-HIFI-metal-in-ear-headphones-earphones-with-Remote-and-Micphone/32274549971.html but the E100 doesn't fit my ear and as the shape is similar I guess that doesn't fit either.


 
 I've heard (not personally) both the Suvov K700 and VJJB-C1-C1S are not that great.
  
 ..


----------



## shockdoc

Subbed


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Anyone know what these little rubber things are called or which are the best ones to buy?
  

  
 I wanted to buy the ones above, but they are out of stock:  https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=39836851866


----------



## jant71

You could get these...http://www.earplugstore.com/breppies-earbud-covers.html 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Just an example. There are other places to get them esp. if you want more color choices. Haven't tried the new snap on Gripeez yet myself. I Probably should.
  
 If you don't have Earhoox, Breppies, PMX70 or 80 caps, and multiple types/densities of foamies in your collection then you aren't taking journey into earbuds seriously enough


----------



## BloodyPenguin

jant71 said:


> You could get these...http://www.earplugstore.com/breppies-earbud-covers.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You are my hero.  Very well said!


----------



## jant71

Yes you can still get PMX70 caps...http://www.custom-cable.co.uk/sennheiser-pmx70-earpads-green-4-pack.html
 Good if you want to cap off a fully open front bud for a little more warmth or build up the thickness to fit in the ear better.
  
 Actually looking at it, there may not be much selection on the Brepps stuff anymore. The website is gone as well. Maybe get them while you you still can and with the snap on rings which should be thicker and stiffer than the last round.


----------



## davakhrs

Which one is better, Jiushao E300, or VE Monk ? I'm looking for good vocal, good soundstage and separation.


----------



## Daijiro

davakhrs said:


> Which one is better, Jiushao E300, or VE Monk ? I'm looking for good vocal, good soundstage and separation.


if you look for vocal,, separation, and detail,, imho Jiushao e600 is better than both of your list. 
But if you prefer more bass, ve monk is really good.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

My wife wants to know if there are Bluetooth Earbuds out there?


----------



## golov17

Bluedio  

Or this http://www.dx.com/p/bluedio-w699-bluetooth-2-0-stereo-caller-id-headset-handsfree-3-hour-talk-time-50-hour-standby-34311


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> Bluedio
> 
> Or this http://www.dx.com/p/bluedio-w699-bluetooth-2-0-stereo-caller-id-headset-handsfree-3-hour-talk-time-50-hour-standby-34311




Great idea.


----------



## lonewolfe2015

Has anyone here that prefers earbuds to in ear monitors tried the Bose QC20s? I'd like to add some noise cancelling to my travel setup, but in ears are quite uncomfortable for me at any size tips I've tried. I'm not sure if there's any suggested alternatives besides going over-ear, which adds some bulk.


----------



## golov17

Bose not earbuds


----------



## kurtextrem

I'm loving the VE Monk. First time an earbud fits better than the AKG Y16 AND has the same or even better soundstage (even though I'm based because of 2 years AKG usage )
 May I ask, which one of those is the best upgrade now (without an amp)?
 jiushao e600, VE Asura, Yuin PK3?
  
 Thanks guys again. Without you I would never have found the Monk (and believed there is nothing better than AKG )


----------



## golov17

VE Asura, IMHO


----------



## shockdoc

kurtextrem said:


> I'm loving the VE Monk. First time an earbud fits better than the AKG Y16 AND has the same or even better soundstage (even though I'm based because of 2 years AKG usage )
> May I ask, which one of those is the best upgrade now (without an amp)?
> jiushao e600, VE Asura, Yuin PK3?
> 
> Thanks guys again. Without you I would never have found the Monk (and believed there is nothing better than AKG )


 
 Where can one purchase the VE Monk? TIA


----------



## kurtextrem

Was on sale a few weeks or days ago on AliExpress. Now it's gone it seems.
 Also, is that only me or has the prices of Zen and Asura risen SO much? I mean 500€? LOL


----------



## BloodyPenguin

kurtextrem said:


> Was on sale a few weeks or days ago on AliExpress. Now it's gone it seems.
> Also, is that only me or has the prices of Zen and Asura risen SO much? I mean 500€? LOL


 
  
 They are price that high so people do not accidentally buy them.  They are currently being re-stocked.
  
 ..


----------



## waynes world

bloodypenguin said:


> They are price that high so people do not accidentally buy them.  They are currently being re-stocked.
> 
> ..


 
  
 Huh! Strange that they can't just be updated with an "out of stock" status to stop them from being ordered. I would think that potential customers could be lost by having the prices artificially raised like that.
  
 Ah, I just saw this on the listing:


> *sorry guys, we need to update some settings on our AE store, the Zen is not sold out , it is the same 128USD, when we are back.*
> 
> *p.s. I(zhibli06 a.k.a lee) is helpless around our new printer, and my partner went oversea for vacation , so I think this could be a good time to correct the issue of our shipping fee settings and stuff. *
> 
> *Thanks a lot for your support! *


----------



## golov17

Expected Arrivals


----------



## golov17

Also can compare Mrice vs Baldoor e100, although I believe that they are the same, but decided to check personally


----------



## chompy

Hi,
  
 Mainly for listening the following electronic genres: Uplifting Trance, Hands Up, some Hardcore and from time to time some Pop what would you recommend? VE Monk, VE Asura, Edifier H185, something else?
  
 They should extend nicely to both ends of the spectrum, with deep and punchy bass and no highs roll-off and they need to have enough speed to handle the high bpm music I listen (from 138 to 180 more or less) without messing the sound.
  
 Thanks


----------



## golov17

VE MONK FINE EARBUDS!!!! RECOMENDED FOR ALL


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> Expected Arrivals


 
  
 My Expected Arrivals:


----------



## golov17

Suvov360 buy?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> Suvov360 buy?


 
 Yes, it should be here in about a week.
  
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> Yes, it should be here in about a week.
> 
> 
> ..


 Nice


----------



## waynes world

golov17 said:


> Price Drop $62
> http://penonaudio.com/Hifiman-ES100?search=hifiman%20es100


 
  
 Hey Golov, have you heard them? How do they stack up against the Zens?
  
 Edit: Nevermind - I just read ClieOS's 1st page summary.


----------



## chompy

golov17 said:


> VE MONK FINE EARBUDS!!!! RECOMENDED FOR ALL


 

 Ok, thanks... I'll wait for them being available on Aliexpress again.


----------



## Tarnum

Newest flagship of Ubiquo (Ucotech, Korea) was released today : http://item2.gmarket.co.kr/Item/detailview/Item.aspx?goodscode=714061752&GoodsSale=Y&jaehuid=200002657&service_id=elecdn


----------



## golov17

tarnum said:


> Newest flagship of Ubiquo (Ucotech, Korea) was released today : http://item2.gmarket.co.kr/Item/detailview/Item.aspx?goodscode=714061752&GoodsSale=Y&jaehuid=200002657&service_id=elecdn


 Big price $160


----------



## golov17

International Shipping Unavailable


----------



## kanonathena

waynes world said:


> Hey Golov, have you heard them? How do they stack up against the Zens?
> 
> Edit: Nevermind - I just read ClieOS's 1st page summary.


 
  
 I suggest people who own ES100 seriously burn them in. I was not impressed too when I first tried them, very mid centric and muddy sound, although the resolution is extremely good. After burn them in for serveral hundred hours and more, the sound is clear, full, authentic and speaker like, the first earbud I tried that gives me the impression of audio-pile like. The fullness, articulation and above all realism of its sound is just something to behold.


----------



## golov17

Partly agree, any earbuds require more time alone, for an objective assessment. IMHO


----------



## golov17

Physically and psychologically


----------



## cocopro

I've had VE monk, H185, and the two HIFIKIWI buds for couple of weeks now, they are all decent buds but that's about it. E100s beat them in sub bass performance and VE Zens are still the biggest sounding earbuds I've heard. 
  
 Sound signature wise VE monk is a hair darker sounding, H185 has significantly more treble energy than the others, and the two HIFIKIWI buds are more mid-centric.


----------



## golov17

Spoiler: Why do I have so many earbuds?






 LOL


----------



## chompy

cocopro said:


> I've had VE monk, H185, and the two HIFIKIWI buds for couple of weeks now, they are all decent buds but that's about it. E100s beat them in sub bass performance and VE Zens are still the biggest sounding earbuds I've heard.
> 
> Sound signature wise VE monk is a hair darker sounding, H185 has significantly more treble energy than the others, and the two HIFIKIWI buds are more mid-centric.




Could you please compare H185 and Monk bass? Which one goes deeper and is more punchy?
You also say that H185 has more highs, is this due to being too prominent in this earbud, or is it due to highs roll off in Monk? 

Thanks


----------



## cocopro

chompy said:


> Could you please compare H185 and Monk bass? Which one goes deeper and is more punchy?
> You also say that H185 has more highs, is this due to being too prominent in this earbud, or is it due to highs roll off in Monk?
> 
> Thanks


 
 Not too much difference between bass depth and slam, VE Monks are slightly more forward feeling due to it's darker sound signature.
 Highs on H185 are definitely more prominent, I'm using regular foams on these and donut foams on others, the H185s are still brighter, but sibilance are well controlled so they are not harsh sounding.


----------



## chompy

cocopro said:


> Not too much difference between bass depth and slam, VE Monks are slightly more forward feeling due to it's darker sound signature.
> Highs on H185 are definitely more prominent, I'm using regular foams on these and donut foams on others, the H185s are still brighter, but sibilance are well controlled so they are not harsh sounding.


 
  
 Thanks for your detailed explanation... I've read lot of praises for Monk, but they aren't now in stock so maybe I should try H185 (I have H180 and I like them, but I find they have some highs roll off, so maybe H185 will fill my needs as maybe Monk are more similar sounding to H180).
  
 I'm after a happy V sounding earbuds, nothing analitical nor flat sounding, what would you recommend Monk, H185 or anything else?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

chompy said:


> I'm after a happy V sounding earbuds, nothing analitical nor flat sounding, what would you recommend Monk, H185 or anything else?


 
 If you can get your hands on a Suvov S20, it has the best bass I have personally heard on an earbud and is very fun.
  
 ..


----------



## cocopro

chompy said:


> Thanks for your detailed explanation... I've read lot of praises for Monk, but they aren't now in stock so maybe I should try H185 (I have H180 and I like them, but I find they have some highs roll off, so maybe H185 will fill my needs as maybe Monk are more similar sounding to H180).
> 
> I'm after a happy V sounding earbuds, nothing analitical nor flat sounding, what would you recommend Monk, H185 or anything else?


 
 H185 is definitely more V sounding compared to Monk, but both have typical earbuds bass - lack depth.


----------



## chompy

Thanks to both of you...
  
 Quote:


bloodypenguin said:


> If you can get your hands on a Suvov S20, it has the best bass I have personally heard on an earbud and is very fun.
> 
> ..


 
  
 I cannot find them on Aliexpress, do you know where could I get them (with shipping to Europe)? How are they highs, do you have H180 or PK3 to compare with them?
  
_(Edit: I've found them on MisterTao)_
  


cocopro said:


> H185 is definitely more V sounding compared to Monk, but both have typical earbuds bass - lack depth.


 
  
 Then I think H185 would fit better my needs, now I'm also curious about Suvov S20 BloodyPenguin has told (if I'm able to find them)


----------



## BloodyPenguin

chompy said:


> I cannot find them on Aliexpress, do you know where could I get them (with shipping to Europe)? How are they highs, do you have H180 or PK3 to compare with them?
> 
> 
> Then I think H185 would fit better my needs, now I'm also curious about Suvov S20 BloodyPenguin has told (if I'm able to find them)


 
 I have to buy them through a Taobao Dealer.  I use MisterTao.com.  I've bought 5 pairs of the Suvov S20 through them.
  
 http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/19980338125.html  
  
 They have huge controlled bass, great fun mids and highs that are very easy easy on the ears.  Highs are not recessed, but rolled off slightly without loosing much detail.
  
 ..


----------



## chompy

bloodypenguin said:


> I have to buy them through a Taobao Dealer.  I use MisterTao.com.  I've bought 5 pairs of the Suvov S20 through them.
> 
> http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/19980338125.html
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks, I also see that there's also Suvov S700 on MisterTao and DarkZenith talked well about them, have you listened them?
  
 As they quite cheap I could buy both of them and find which I like more...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

chompy said:


> Thanks, I also see that there's also Suvov S700 on MisterTao and DarkZenith talked well about them, have you listened them?
> 
> As they quite cheap I could buy both of them and find which I like more...


 
 I have personally not heard the S700, but golov17 has and he said he was not a fan of them.
  
 The Suvov S10 is also supposed to sound close to the S20, but with no volume control.  I will have a set of them soon to test.
  
 I also have the Suvov M360 on the way as well.  I will report on those when I receive them.
  
 ..


----------



## abaynp

anybody can tell me, what's real difference between trio dual driver powerbeats, tingo tc100 and pan hj329. since they have same overall impression (good detail and soundstage)


----------



## Trzystatrzy

some earbuds a bit warmer than JiuShao E300? but not as warm as Edifier H180


----------



## golov17

Pioneer SE-CE521


----------



## HieuVietNam

. Seahf earbud, copy ve zen


----------



## golov17

hieuvietnam said:


> . Seahf earbud, copy ve zen


 This 32 Ohm?


----------



## HieuVietNam

32ohm 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 . http://world.taobao.com/item/40076268292.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a312a.7700824.w4004-4309254038.2.Z3l4hE ( 32ohm )
- http://world.taobao.com/item/42915780942.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a312a.7700824.w4002-2705102940.52.vgNzES ( 150 ohm)


----------



## Trzystatrzy

golov17 said:


> Pioneer SE-CE521



What about SE-CE511? The same model with microphone?


----------



## golov17

trzystatrzy said:


> What about SE-CE511? The same model with microphone?


 No, other


----------



## golov17

I got Mrice E100 with Aliexpress, to compare with Baldoor E100, which I have for a long time .. So, Mrice winner, I recommend to all fans of earbuds


----------



## golov17

I apologize for the controversy about Mrice  I always thought that they have the same drivers Baldoor, and I was wrong


----------



## RedJohn456

golov17 said:


> I apologize for the controversy about Mrice  I always thought that they have the same drivers Baldoor, and I was wrong


 

 I bought mrice e100 off of amazon. So is not the same thing as baldoor e100? Does it have more treble than the baldoor?


----------



## golov17

They have everything perfectly with a range of frequencies, a little on the bright side, but they have the best tonal balance of the two.


----------



## rggz

golov17 said:


> I got Mrice E100 with Aliexpress, to compare with Baldoor E100, which I have for a long time .. So, Mrice winner, I recommend to all fans of earbuds


 
 Oh.. paranoia is back.

 I'm lucky because I bought 3 pairs for differents sellers, one send me with Mrice box and they sounds identical (this one have mrice and baldoor names on 3.5mm plug), but I've see this guy with new E100 sounds poor over old pair, and your comment now makes me think if really have two types of E100 the good ones and the bad ones haha.

 IMO E100 is a great value, but after read this thread I'm waiting for VE Zen return on Aliexpress, I think this bud is the next level, right?


----------



## golov17

Haha, paranoia does not come back, lol. I only said what I said. Do not fantasize. VE Zen is a different beast on the mountain.


----------



## alpha421

I hope to own the VE Zen soon.


----------



## waynes world

golov17 said:


> VE Zen is a different beast on the mountain.


 
  
 Nice way of describing the Zens! I'm spoiled because I've jumped into the earbud game with the Zens. Which others compete? Do you also like the Sennheiser MX985 and Blox TM7 that ClieOS rates highly?
  


alpha421 said:


> I hope to own the VE Zen soon.


 
  
 Awesome - you'll love them!


----------



## alpha421

It was either the Zen or OK1, and I'm betting on the the Zen.


----------



## golov17

I like mx980, but i don't know tm7 soundsig, but i will searching it..


----------



## golov17

Where Zen can be too spicy for some records, mx980 smooths the rough edges ..


----------



## golov17

My favourites today VEZen & mx980


----------



## Trzystatrzy

golov17 said:


> Pioneer SE-CE521


 
 How they sound against MX471?


----------



## golov17

I don't use mx471


----------



## jant71

For those who may be interested in the US anyhow(though they seem to ship international)...http://www.ebay.com/itm/Edifier-M220-Earphones-Orange-Earbuds-New-Open-Box-/181462944572
  
 The older Edifier M220 which was also the Beyer MTX20(but the Edifier was said to have better/more bass)






  
 If one wants to try for not much money though I have not much info one them except the three things I took from looking around. Slightly better than the Beyer version, Bassier than the Edifier H200, and needed better foams than they came with for the best sound. Not sure how they actually stack up though so a bit of a gamble  but still only ~$12


----------



## oopeteroo

question again 
 i need a new earbud that doesnt need an amp, will use it with my sansa clip+ mp3 player.
 what is the best for the buck earbud for that?
 im listening to ballads and female vocal mostly.
 So i would love to have awsome mids


----------



## rggz

oopeteroo said:


> question again
> i need a new earbud that doesnt need an amp, will use it with my sansa clip+ mp3 player.
> what is the best for the buck earbud for that?
> im listening to ballads and female vocal mostly.
> So i would love to have awsome mids


 
 I make a similar question some time ago, and I think Mrice E100 or VE Asura are good choices, for use only with clip+ my vote is E100.


----------



## oopeteroo

rggz said:


> I make a similar question some time ago, and I think Mrice E100 or VE Asura are good choices, for use only with clip+ my vote is E100.


 

 where can i buy it ? i heard there was a few version of e100 with diff sound? is ebay ok ? hope its not like the dastn build quality


----------



## golov17

Original Mrice Fashion Wired Earphone In-Ear 3.5mm Earphone Earbuds Headset HeadPhone For Cellphone Mp3 Mp4 
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-Quality-Baldoor-E100-Fashion-Wired-Earphone-with-3-5mm-Gold-Plated-Plug-Compatible-With-All/32367579595.html


----------



## oopeteroo

golov17 said:


> Original Mrice Fashion Wired Earphone In-Ear 3.5mm Earphone Earbuds Headset HeadPhone For Cellphone Mp3 Mp4
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-Quality-Baldoor-E100-Fashion-Wired-Earphone-with-3-5mm-Gold-Plated-Plug-Compatible-With-All/32367579595.html


 

 doesnt ebay seems a little cheaper ? oh.. the only thing is i dont like the red cable =(


----------



## golov17

I bought from this seller for $ 9, I do not know why prices rose


----------



## RedJohn456

golov17 said:


> I bought from this seller for $ 9, I do not know why prices rose


 

 how many different versions have you heard? I didn't know they sounded different. which one is the best? I have the mrice version


----------



## golov17

Baldoor not like, mrice like


----------



## oopeteroo

what is the next best earbud that i can get unamped with amazing mids ?
 just to see what i can choose btw cuz i dont like the red cable on mrice


----------



## golov17

Ubiquo es903


----------



## golov17

the middle is amazing with the new DAP, not Sansa, lol


----------



## oopeteroo

golov17 said:


> Ubiquo es903


 

 ****.........its...........expensive xD sorry forgot to say, needs to be cheap as mrice xD


----------



## golov17

oopeteroo said:


> ****.........its...........expensive xD sorry forgot to say, needs to be cheap as mrice xD


 Cogoo DX400


----------



## golov17

I got a gift from a friend of the homeland Blox Thailand budget earbuds OKER DS300, and I'm very impressed. This, to my ears, as a budget option Blox BE5. Highly recommend.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

New Test Subjects:
  
  
*Silver* (SRS?) - http://world.taobao.com/item/5274912326.htm

*Black* (Suvov S10) - http://world.taobao.com/item/15929241639.htm
  
*Red* (Fake Sennheiser MX500) - http://world.taobao.com/item/1228643277.htm
  
  

  

 Quick listen shows they all sound very good.  I will burn in and go more detail later.


----------



## golov17

Good earbuds for vocal lovers. Shozy like 16 Ohm pk1, interesting sound signature..


----------



## earbudslover

Hello guys, I'm looking for the best audio quality earbuds.
  
 I tried looking for the Sennheiser MX985 or the Blox TM7 but I couldn't find any place to buy them (I live in Europe)
  
 Any suggestions? (unlimited budget)
  
 Thanks!


----------



## oopeteroo

golov17 said:


> Good earbuds for vocal lovers. Shozy like 16 Ohm pk1, interesting sound signature..


 
  
 so which one to buy for vocal/mids for sansa clip+ without amp..... Mrice E100 vs Cogoo DX400?
 or the other u have tried?


----------



## golov17

Shozy & OKER


----------



## golov17

earbudslover said:


> Hello guys, I'm looking for the best audio quality earbuds.
> 
> I tried looking for the Sennheiser MX985 or the Blox TM7 but I couldn't find any place to buy them (I live in Europe)
> 
> ...


VE Zen, VE Asura


----------



## golov17

http://mg.gmarket.co.kr/Search/Search?topKeyword=mx985


----------



## Siriphum

Where do you buy the shozy earbud, how much, and what it sound like ? Thanks


----------



## golov17

Taobao, $15-20, bass-vocal, dark HF, 16 Ohm, but this DIY, QQ low


----------



## Siriphum

golov17 said:


> Taobao, $15-20, bass-vocal, dark HF, 16 Ohm, but this DIY, QQ low


 
 is it diy from siemens earbud ??? it's the siemens shape


----------



## golov17

Not, not.. Only housing, not sounds.


----------



## oopeteroo

golov17 said:


> Shozy & OKER


 
 can u link me please :3


----------



## golov17

Taobao & Thailand


----------



## golov17

http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=43155670595&cpp=1&sourceType=item&un=14e56b9e2a50d4d403c6109e527695c7&share_crt_v=1&_navigation_params=%7B"needdismiss"%3A1%7D


----------



## oatp1b1

What're the thoughts about Sennheiser MX985? I've always thought (due to its sound and looks) it to be one of the better 'buds, but now when I've attempted to sell them I've had zero responses. Are there better ones that's cheaper now a days?


----------



## RedJohn456

Does anyone know if its still possible to buy the MX895 brand new? From reputable sources preferably   Its been discontinued for awhile now right?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=43155670595&cpp=1&sourceType=item&un=14e56b9e2a50d4d403c6109e527695c7&share_crt_v=1&_navigation_params=%7B"needdismiss"%3A1%7D




My wallet hates you. 

..


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> My wallet hates you.
> 
> ..


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Finally got my hands on the Mrice E100A.  (Quick picture I took of them).
  

  
 I meant to order them in black, but I made a mistake.  Oh well, the white is not horrible.
  
 I think they sound pretty decent.  Fit has not been an issue for me because I am using these thick foam covers:  http://world.taobao.com/item/969229165.htm


 EDIT:  I completed a full review as well:  http://www.head-fi.org/products/baldoor-earbell-e100/reviews/14124
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

Baldoor not Mrice!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> Baldoor not Mrice!




Mine has both names on it.


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> Mine has both names on it.


----------



## golov17




----------



## golov17

Mrice glossy, Baldoor matte black Connectors. Sound other.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I'll get other versions to compare.


----------



## daveyostrow

bloodypenguin said:


> I think they sound pretty decent.  Fit has not been an issue for me because I am using these thick foam covers:  http://world.taobao.com/item/969229165.htm
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Best is to get the yurbud covers. Fit is snug and sound improves. They are cheap enough to buy for the included covers. Call quality is horrible on mine, so much static noise.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

daveyostrow said:


> Best is to get the yurbud covers. Fit is snug and sound improves. They are cheap enough to buy for the included covers. Call quality is horrible on mine, so much static noise.


 
  
 I tried the Yurbud covers a little while ago.  I like the idea of them, but they did not fit my ears correctly (and I tried multiple sizes).  The best for me is just the thick foam covers, I have them on all my earbuds.
  
 ..


----------



## Axaion

Hey everyone, im guessing this question has been asked and answered but i tried searching, and googling, no results.
  
 Anyone know how the Nokia/Microsoft WH-308's earbuds/pods that looks a lot like the apple earpods stack up against them?
  
 Reason im asking is because the earpods is very comfortable, and has decent sound, but alas, it being APPLEL they dont really work right with android (mic, up/down button)
  
 Also, theyre cheaper than the earpods.
  
  
 Lot of us just want some decent cheap earbuds thats comfy.
  
 Anyhow, thanks for reading my little rant/question


----------



## fayby

Just digged out my MX985 from years ago and compared it with $10 Edifier P180 I just bought. I still don't think MX985 has what it takes to make it to the top. I loved the MX500 fifteen years ago and thought the MX985 must be very lovable. Turned out, apart from being slightly bigger to fit my pathetic ears, it didn't share much of the characteristics of the old MX500 (at least from what I remembered). On the other hand the P180 at only 1/20 of the price worked a lot better for me. P180 doesn't have as good a sound stage as the MX980 for sure, but details wise it sound cleaner and I like that when I'm listening on the go. 
  
 One thing tho the MX985 does look fantastic, I think it's the best looking ear buds I ever bought and I've kept it in the nice box it came in for years on the shelf and will continue that way.


----------



## kurtextrem

daveyostrow said:


> Best is to get the yurbud covers. Fit is snug and sound improves. They are cheap enough to buy for the included covers. Call quality is horrible on mine, so much static noise.


 
 I'm really going to buy ****ty earbuds for 12€ just to get the covers... right?


----------



## daveyostrow

kurtextrem said:


> I'm really going to buy ****ty earbuds for 12€ just to get the covers... right?


 

 I hear, but considering they can be used with all/most earbuds they are an investment themselves. Regular iems dont keep a seal when working out, and earbuds arent snug enough... I would not be able to work out with earbuds otherwise.


----------



## kurtextrem

There are alternatives out there however: 
 http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00C96CAZQ?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_1&smid=A1F1NB6MN6FR8H
 http://www.amazon.de/Jabra-Active-Headset-kabelgebunden-schwarz-Nordeurop%C3%A4ische-Verpackung/dp/B004AHKSLA
  
 I wonder which ones are better? Yurbud, Jabra or these Philips (only the covers.. not the earbuds themselves)?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Just wanted to give you earbud lovers a heads up.
  
 I have a brand new, sealed *Creative Aurvana Air* for *$55* (Free shipping to the Continental US if funds sent as a gift.)
  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/783591/creative-aurvana-air-brand-new-sealed
  
  

  
  
  
  
 --


----------



## davitantra

Hey, it's just recently that i have interest in earbuds and tried them. up till now i've tried DIY 150ohm PK1, Ve Monk and Blue Ever Blue 328r 'Black', all of them are great sounding and everyone has its uniqueness and speciality. but i like Ve Monk the most because it's very warm, dark, the highs are not hurting, the bass impact and detail. i'm looking for an upgrade that has the same sound signature but has more separation, detail and my budget is $30. any recommendation?


----------



## waynes world

davitantra said:


> Hey, it's just recently that i have interest in earbuds and tried them. up till now i've tried DIY 150ohm PK1, Ve Monk and Blue Ever Blue 328r 'Black', all of them are great sounding and everyone has its uniqueness and speciality. but i like Ve Monk the most because it's very warm, dark, the highs are not hurting, the bass impact and detail. i'm looking for an upgrade that has the same sound signature but has more separation, detail and my budget is $30. any recommendation?




The Asura's might be the logical choice for you.


----------



## davitantra

waynes world said:


> The Asura's might be the logical choice for you.




i think so, but asura costs like $50-60 here in Indonesia (out of my budget), has anyone tried Boarseman MX98s, Seahf 32ohm and Edifier H180 with de'mun cable? i like it warm, dark, smooth treble, high PRaT, but delivers good detail and texture


----------



## golov17

Maybe OKER DS300 for you?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> Maybe OKER DS300 for you?


 
  
 I wonder if this can be bought in the US somehow?
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

Let me remind you, good buds from Pioneer


----------



## Trzystatrzy

Hey, what about Sennheiser MX475?


----------



## golov17

Norm, but more best Pioneer 521 & VE Monk


----------



## Vignelli

the only good bud from senn are mx760 and mx985/980


----------



## golov17

MX880 also not bad, imho


----------



## davitantra

have anybody tried the DIY MX760? hard to find the original one, but there are a lot (3 types) of DIY versions and some people stated that those have identical SQ


----------



## golov17

DIY Dasetn m 760 can send and good quality and bad. QQ controversial, IMHO. Also with other DIY, like the lottery, maybe lucky for you, but maybe not...


----------



## davitantra

sir, if you are interestedhttps://www.tokopedia.com/1bestchoice/diy-sennheiser-mx760-champagne-speacial-tipe-red-cable-diamond-sound-high-quality-earphone-headset-earbud


----------



## golov17

davitantra said:


> sir, if you are interestedhttps://www.tokopedia.com/1bestchoice/diy-sennheiser-mx760-champagne-speacial-tipe-red-cable-diamond-sound-high-quality-earphone-headset-earbud


from Dasetn


----------



## davitantra

golov17 said:


> from Dasetn


 

so is it the Dasetn M760?


----------



## golov17




----------



## SoundWolf

Great, thanks for the awesome review, i was planning on buying the best ear buds i could get and i'll go with your 1# pick: the Blox TM7, also previously read your review about the new VE brand and they aslo sound great.


----------



## golov17

You try VE Zen 1.0 & 2.0


----------



## myemaildw

golov17 said:


>






siriphum said:


> Where do you buy the shozy earbud, how much, and what it sound like ? Thanks




ive got these earbuds if anyone interested. i cant call them used cause i only listened to them for five minutes. one foam is missing not sure if i lost it or if it wasnt included. the foam isnt on picture. post from ireland, post is 2 euro. ive no idea how much it cost etc. it sounds quite detailed. the first thing is they sound very open. when i try to add bass with bass amplifier bass distorts. the have rubber on the tip where cable comes out so there is good stress aleviation. the cables are cheap and thin. etc, but they are nice, so if anyone wants. cheers


----------



## golov17

http://m.shenzhenaudio.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=Hiegi


----------



## MRK1

I bought a pair of those Monks from Aliexpress, since I need to replace my Baldoor E100 which has become unbearable for my ears for whatever reason. They're absolutely uncomfortable for me recently, not sure why, I can't use them more than 5 minutes. Speaking of which, does anyone located in Europe wants to exchange another pair of earbuds for my E100? They're barely used and even then I always kept the foams (full foams not the donut foams). I'm interested in the JiuShao or the Edifier. If you want to exchange and the earbuds are absolutely clean and fully working just like mine I'm willing to exchange them. Mine are the Baldoor branded model that came in the Mrice box, paid 20€ for them on Amazon Italy. Send me a message if you're interested.
  
 I'm waiting for the Monks to arrive, considering they have a generic earbud shape, they're definitely going to be more comfortable.
  
 Anyway, does anyone knows where I can find silicone rings for the Sennheiser MX 580 or a similar kind of silicone rings?


----------



## golov17

This? or this?


----------



## golov17

when we combine vocal OKER and purity Monk, we get the BOE. Recommended.

$22 without shipping 
https://m.facebook.com/earbudsthailand


----------



## davitantra

BOE! interesting earbud


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> when we combine vocal OKER and purity Monk, we get the BOE. Recommended.
> 
> $22 without shipping
> https://m.facebook.com/earbudsthailand


 
  
 OK @golov17 I should have a pair in about a month or so.  I will let you know how I like the BOE then.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 ..


----------



## golov17

That's good, Justin. Ask him to send you an additional couple of OKER, cheap, but ...


----------



## Trzystatrzy

somebody can compare Awei ES10 with Yuin PK3?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

trzystatrzy said:


> somebody can compare Awei ES10 with Yuin PK3?


 


 I've owned both.  I can say there really is no comparison.  The PK3 does everything better, though it will have a little less sub-bass than the ES10.
  
 I used to be a big ES10 fanboy, but now many others have replaced it and I find that I do not use mine anymore.  I even gave my ES10 and ES11 away to friends.
  
  
 My personal choice right now is the Suvov S20/S10.  I think it is an amazing earphone for the price if you can get your hands on one.


----------



## golov17

Do not miss OKERrrr


----------



## Trzystatrzy

thx for opinion  I like ES10 and I'm looking for update for it. Suvov are too big for my ears, I'm looking small earbuds and PK3 looks nice


----------



## golov17

Only not buy Yuin PK3 DIY, this sucks..


----------



## golov17

I do not remember .. Earhoox has different dimensions for earbuds or universal?


----------



## goodyfresh

Where the heck can I actually buy Blox earbuds?


----------



## waynes world

goodyfresh said:


> Where the heck can I actually buy Blox earbuds?


 
  
 If you like the Monks, just get the Zens... you're going to get them someday anyway! Then you can look into Blox's and Senn's etc (but maybe not even bother lol). I say this partly in jest because I'm not familiar with anything other than the VE's. But really, _everyone_ should have a Zen. And will your X3ii push them well enough... I'm pretty sure it will.


----------



## goodyfresh

waynes world said:


> If you like the Monks, just get the Zens... you're going to get them someday anyway! Then you can look into Blox's and Senn's etc (but maybe not even bother lol). I say this partly in jest because I'm not familiar with anything other than the VE's. But really, _everyone_ should have a Zen. And will your X3ii push them well enough... I'm pretty sure it will.


 
 I dunno if my X3ii really can push them to their full potential or even anywhere near it, man. . .lots of folks seem to think it can't.

 I KNOW WHO TO ASK!  I'll ask Brooko!  He should know


----------



## nick n

golov17 I see you have some Cresyn. Are there any that are currently around you think are decent?
  
 I have an AXEiii but it is giving me some odd behaviour at the moment.
  
 Those 700's I saw in that picture ( the mistake picture )  I do not see those around at all.


----------



## golov17

They are good for the low price.. And rare stuff


----------



## nick n

Closest I can find to those is the ones that look the same , but are pink  and a lower model number.


----------



## DJScope

The VE Monk absolutely deserves to be on that list!


----------



## golov17

The fact that we are discussing here are good buds that people can buy or on Ali or Tao .. But there is a worthy copies that sell only in their own countries. If we could get a lot of models earbuds from Indonesia, which we have not even heard. But as far as I know, the most "vicious" fans earbuds and a huge variety of models and names, it is in Indonesia, and only in Indonesia.


----------



## golov17

djscope said:


> The VE Monk absolutely deserves to be on that list!


For the user, Earbuds must have not only great sound for a good price, but also a good cable and jack. Nobody can not be beat VE Monk for $ 5!


----------



## DJScope

golov17 said:


> For the user, Earbuds must have not only great sound for a good price, but also a good cable and jack. No one can not be beat VE Monk for $ 5!


 
  
 Monk is the budget GOD!


----------



## golov17

not blasphemy, lol  prince or king


----------



## DJScope

golov17 said:


> not blasphemy, lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 More like Emperor!


----------



## kurtextrem

golov17 said:


> when we combine vocal OKER and purity Monk, we get the BOE. Recommended.
> 
> $22 without shipping
> https://m.facebook.com/earbudsthailand


 
 I really wonder how you get... can't wait for your review


----------



## goodyfresh

Does anybody here have any experience with Yurbuds earbud-enhancers and how much they affect sound-quality and tone and signature?

 If so, what size of them should I use with the Monks or Zens?


----------



## golov17

kurtextrem said:


> I really wonder how you get... can't wait for your review


To my ears, a wonderful combination of softness and purity. Very good HF. Ideal for vocal jazz and blues, I am very pleased and impressed. They definitely did a good job for music lovers, like i ..


----------



## golov17




----------



## goodyfresh

Does anybody have experience with Yurbuds Earbuds enhancers (These things: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yurbuds-Replacement-Ear-Buds-Earbuds-Cover-Size-5-for-Focus-Inspire-Ironman-Duro-/351461713022?var=&hash=item51d4c0247emnOEhgvtJ3C3uakcRVkKrdA) and could tell me whether or not they negatively affect the sound of earbuds in any way?

 I am looking for a solution whereby I can get better a better seal and fit in my outer-ears with my VE Monks and later, once I get them, some Zen 2.0's.  I have very small ears and teh Monks don't stay in and while I know I'm not supposed to get a true SEAL with them, I can't even get the kind of PARTIAL seal from them, in my case, which allows for them to achieve the kind of subbass quantity that they are truly capable of.  I am wondering if the Yurbuds Enhancers could help with that without affecting the sound NEGATIVELY in any way.  Any advice you guys could give me concerning those, or toher products that may be able to help, would be much appreciated!


----------



## golov17

As to the question how to buy Blox, I recommend to write a letter to Woo on sale@bloxearphone.com, maybe he can help you.


----------



## apenjuri

Hi All,
  
 After going through this thread, I bought Edifier H-180p.
  
 I am very satisfied with the buds and they sound great for the price. Also, i got a good mic with a decent quality with it as a bonus.
  
 After H-180p, now i am planning another earbud.
  
 Could you please suggest a one which can block outside noise with microphone.
  
 Thanks In Advance.


----------



## yalper

We need a VE Monk vs. Edifier H180 comparison


----------



## golov17

H185p?


----------



## chompy

yalper said:


> We need a VE Monk vs. Edifier H180 comparison



+1


----------



## apenjuri

If VE Monk is with me then I could have tried a comparison. I am planning to order one.


----------



## apenjuri

Thanks golov17. Will try your suggestion.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

apenjuri said:


> Thanks golov17. Will try your suggestion.


 
@golov17 has awesome suggestions.  That is how I found about the Suvov S20 and a few others.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Currently waiting to get my BOE earbuds.
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

Well, as I understand it, the man is searching with a microphone..


----------



## golov17

For the second night shift I listen BOE with Meizu .. awesome earbuds


----------



## nightgost

Can I buy the VE ASURA to Portugal (Europe)? from china, thailand, anywhere?  
  
 please give me some info on how to buy them. i see them at aliexpress at 618$ -.- 
 (i've tried holysai.com and dontblameyourears.com but they dont ship to portugal)   
  
 Thank You folks!


----------



## golov17

http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/43363020413.html


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> @golov17
> has awesome suggestions.  That is how I found about the Suvov S20 and a few others.
> 
> 
> ...



This pics from my friend from Thailand: xduoo x3 with BOE


----------



## RedJohn456

You know what sucks? 
  
 The Zen 1.0!
  
 You want to know why?
  
 Because I have been listening to these and they are so much better the Zen 1 isn't going to get anymore listening time.... like at all. 
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  
 The Zen 2 has been rocking my world today since it arrived. Can't take them out of my ears! 
  
 The new custom transparent shells are more comfortable and the new cable looks sexy af and is much easier to handle than the Zen 1.0 cable. Very much like the Duke Cable also has an L shaped cable. 
  
 Most importantt thing: It is a noticeable jump in sound quality, not just aesthetics. So let me talk about the sound quality first.
  
 The Zen 2 is MUCH MUCH easier to drive. Much more sensitive than the first Zen. Ignore the first pic with the Amp, it runs just fine out of the X7, but a high quality amp will always improve things! You can run it out of anything with decent power (other FiiO daps and such I would imagine). Much appreciated improvement over the Zen 1.0.
  
  
  
 Do note that I am using my earbuds foamless and out of my Geek Out V2 and the X7 and these are my initial impressions:
  
  

these immediately sound fuller without using foams 
much more detailed with better micro details 
denser sound and richer and still has that PRaT factor
The Zen 1.0 sounded subpar with my phone whereas the Zen 2.0 actually sounds enjoyable but still not as good as with a DAP or attaching an amp to the phone but the Zen 2.0 is still much easier to drive than the Zen 1.0
Soundstage sounds like I am using full size open backs. No joke. Massive soundstage with great depth height and width
Treble sounds articulate and precise - cymbal splashes are defined without being crispy
The Zen 2.0 isn't just marginally better but quite a bit better than the 1.0, an upgrade in every sense of the word
Guitars sound so damn good thanks due to the midrange, good body and imaging as well!
Dat bass control and texture!
  
 I will update with more impresses after burning them in more. 
  
 My summary of the Zen 2.0: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (my face while listening to it)


----------



## fleasbaby

redjohn456 said:


> You know what sucks?
> 
> The Zen 1.0!
> 
> ...


 

 Oh lawdy...
  
 Can't wait to hear these balanced. Going to have to wait a little though. *SIGH*


----------



## myemaildw

anyone still interested in shozy diy earbud? 12 euro


----------



## golov17

myemaildw said:


> anyone still interested in shozy diy earbud? 12 euro


very good buds, lush, rich sound, with good vocals


----------



## ryanjsoo

Hey, anyone have channel imbalance on their e100`s, got a set a month ago and the right side is noticeably louder, they have no warranty so I`m kinda bummed, any fix for this or are they duds? Any other earbud recommendations? H185`s look pretty good, thanks.


----------



## golov17

This is defect. A couple of my Edifier H101 also had a similar defect, unfortunately


----------



## myemaildw

i lower price for diy bud to 10 euro, mids and high are nice and clear, vocals are clean and detailed. the bass is weak for my liking which is why it is going. if you like mids and high and dont care about bass it is for you. open sounding, well its a bud so probably why. better than apple earbuds ofcourse. very wide soundstage. buy it now before i decide to keep em  cheers


----------



## RedJohn456

Can anyone guess what this is? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




​
  
  
  
 Its the Zen 2.0 Black edition (cardas cable premium version)


----------



## emusic13

redjohn456 said:


> Can anyone guess what this is?  ​
> 
> [COLOR=FF4400]
> [/COLOR]
> ...



Have you listened to it? Any differences between the normal 2.0?


----------



## RedJohn456

emusic13 said:


> Have you listened to it? Any differences between the normal 2.0?


 

 Pic isn't mine, I just have the regular Zen 2.0. Funny to call the Zen 2.0 just the regular edition considering how mind glowingly good it is. No idea how Zen 2.0 Black Edition sounds..


----------



## chompy

I've just received my pair of Monk and after burning 10 hours, and it's been a disappointment to me, but probably due to my ears shape: I find them quite bass anemic, far far away from my Beyer DT770 Pro, but also quite worse than my Edifier H180, but if I press the Monk with my fingers to my ears, then I start getting the bass you all seem to enjoy in VE thread.
  
 I’ll give them some more time, because medium and highs are nice but this lack of bass for my own taste it’s unacceptable, sorry. And it’s a shame, because as I said it seems that the only problem I have with them it’s their shape, H180 have the perfect size for my ear and I can wear them 5 hours without noticing them, but Monk are difficult to handle even after a few minutes.
  
 I forget to say that all these tests have been done using the included donut foams.
  
 I would have upgraded to Asura or Zen, but due to this problem with VE shells I’ll have to temporally look somewhere else... What would you recommend me? It needs to have at least H180 bass (and size) but with improved highs (similar to Monk), maybe Edifier H185 or will it also be too big for my ears?
  
 Thanks


----------



## golov17

H101, H185 small buds


----------



## chompy

golov17 said:


> H101, H185 small buds


 
  
 Thanks golov, could you tell me the sound signature differences between them?


----------



## golov17

Н101 more flat, h185 more V-sig.
For me SQ: 101>185>180=190 Edifiers family, IMHO


----------



## chompy

golov17 said:


> Н101 more flat, h185 more V-sig.
> For me SQ: 101>185>180=190 Edifiers family, IMHO


 
  
 Thanks again golov, then as I like V shapped sound, I'll try H185. Any other recommendation in addition to Edifier family?


----------



## golov17

Shozy DIY, drivers size, like Yuins. For vocal lovers.


----------



## chompy

golov17 said:


> Shozy DIY, drivers size, like Yuins. For vocal lovers.


 
  
 Thanks, I'll use them almost only for EDM, so I think H185 will suit better my tastes.


----------



## golov17

chompy said:


> Thanks, I'll use them almost only for EDM, so I think H185 will suit better my tastes.


OK,


----------



## myemaildw

ive sold them but here is review if you need. fidue a73 is a lot better than these but price is also different, these are only about 10 euro plus minus postage if its not free etc.
[VIDEO]http://youtu.be/A0y_6qmq760[/VIDEO]


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Anyone on the USA that wants to try and review the *Edifier P180* go to the link below:
  

  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/787292/new-edifier-iems-earphones-lineup-in-north-america-seeking-reviewers
  
  
 I should have a pair of the white (unfortunately not black) version in the next few days to try out.
  
  
 ..


----------



## DarkZenith

P180 are just H180 with a mic, right?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

darkzenith said:


> P180 are just H180 with a mic, right?


 
  
 Correct.  
  
 ..


----------



## Trzystatrzy

PK3 in da house. Why I didn't buy them before?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Hello guys, 

 I was recently bitten by the earbud bug, and after looking around and having some help by fellow forum members golov and Mr Tachikoma (cute things these are) the thread author, I have decided to purchase a *BGVP/SIDY KT100 *for it's wide sounstage. The problem is, I can't find a single written review of the earbud. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Anyone who owns these babies care to give me any pointers on thier sound and build quality?

 Thank-you


----------



## tukangketik

audionewbi3 said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> 
> I was recently bitten by the earbud bug, and after looking around and having some help by fellow forum members golov and Mr Tachikoma (cute things these are) the thread author, I have decided to purchase a *BGVP/SIDY KT100 *for it's wide sounstage. The problem is, I can't find a single written review of the earbud. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Anyone who owns these babies care to give me any pointers on thier sound and build quality?
> ...



I think the chinese review quite understandable if you are using google translator. I am quite agree with this. 
http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3168443319

Housing is rather cheap quality, but cable and jack is good. 
I know Indonesian review but its on facebook and it is not very comprehensive with soo many other type.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Thanks mate! Yeah I am Chinese, so reading the review shouldn't be too much of a problem.


----------



## Eugene Filipp

Hello everyone!
  
 I have Venture Monks, they are nice sounding earbuds.
  
 What would be the next upgrade, without braking the bank, and something easy to drive???
  
 What are the options?


----------



## emusic13

eugene filipp said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> I have Venture Monks, they are nice sounding earbuds.
> 
> ...



Id recommend Yuin PK2


----------



## Eugene Filipp

link? as there are so many sellers selling different versions...


----------



## emusic13

The one on Amazon or bigbargain online on ebay. Those are originals not diy


----------



## DarkZenith

eugene filipp said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> I have Venture Monks, they are nice sounding earbuds.
> 
> ...


 

 IMHO absolutely nothing compares to Monks under $50. Those marvels are even better for me than all Blox BEx, and I own a pretty big collection of earbuds. (I'm a french Golov of sorts...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## Eugene Filipp

darkzenith said:


> IMHO absolutely nothing compares to Monks under $50. Those marvels are even better for me than all Blox BEx, and I own a pretty big collection of earbuds. (I'm a french Golov of sorts...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Wow ok., do you think after some burn time like 50 hours Monks will sound any better? Or it just irrelevant for Monks?


----------



## DarkZenith

Monks sounded excellent for me right out of the box, so maybe you don't like their sound sig?
 Monks are fairly mid-centric, with a lot of presence and very good articulation, but their frequency response has some roll-off at each end.
 Why don't you try earbuds with a V sound sig, like Jiushao E300 or Edifier H180?
 You can also test ones with a flatter response: Pioneer SE-CE521, Baldoor (Mrice) E100...


----------



## DJScope

To me it felt like 4 hours was enough for them to be in peak performance.


----------



## chompy

Seems that finally Ostry KC08 is near...


----------



## B9Scrambler

@chompy Oh man. I hope they sound as good as they look!


----------



## davitantra

has anyone tried recabling or reterminating Ve Monk? i'm looking for a combination to make the mid a tad forward and the separation better


----------



## golov17

Yes, you can easily open the case at the monk: FB Pics


----------



## Eugene Filipp

Are there headphones sound as good as Venture Electronics VE ZEN but cost at half price?


----------



## Eugene Filipp

golov17 said:


> Yes, you can easily open the case at the monk: FB Pics


 
  
 looks very nice., did you mod them yourself?


----------



## golov17

Not my pics, but.. This my work & pics


----------



## Eugene Filipp

golov17 said:


> Not my pics, but.. This my work & pics


 
 Wow brother... you are smoking..... looks very good....


----------



## golov17

there is a will, lol


----------



## golov17

Senn-OPPO received a gift from Thailand. Sound like a younger brother Blox m2c (new revision). Very satisfied.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

eugene filipp said:


> Are there headphones sound as good as Venture Electronics VE ZEN but cost at half price?


 
  
 The VE Asura.  Though at this point, someone else might have to post up where you can buy one.
  
 Here is my review of it, a fantastic Earbud:  http://www.head-fi.org/products/venture-electronics-ve-asura/reviews/14117
  
 --


----------



## davitantra

so sir, which cable and connector combination will work best (at low cost) for monk? 





golov17 said:


> Yes, you can easily open the case at the monk: FB Pics


----------



## golov17

Despite my skepticism on this issue, many people are doing it, so you can try it for yourself ..


----------



## oopeteroo

how much will the ostry kc08 cost ?


----------



## emusic13

Im going to guess around $100-150 if the astrotec lyra which is quite similar in build and also has hybrid drivers (from what ive read) is any indication. That is, if kc08 ever comes out :rolleyes: and if it even will have a hybrid driver


----------



## goodyfresh

emusic13 said:


> Im going to guess around $100-150 if the astrotec lyra which is quite similar in build and also has hybrid drivers (from what ive read) is any indication. That is, if kc08 ever comes out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Are hybrid-driver earbuds even any good, really, the way that hybrid-driver IEM's tend to be?


----------



## DarkZenith

golov17 said:


> Despite *my skepticism on this issue*, many people are doing it, so you can try it for yourself ..


 

 So, no VE Zen 2.0 with Cardas cable for you?


----------



## emusic13

goodyfresh said:


> Are hybrid-driver earbuds even any good, really, the way that hybrid-driver IEM's tend to be?




I think they should be good based on reviews. I wanted to try the Lyra but regret not getting it when it was $99 on Amazon. Since the lyra 6 came out, its around $160.


----------



## jant71

emusic13 said:


> I think they should be good based on reviews. I wanted to try the Lyra but regret not getting it when it was $99 on Amazon. Since the lyra 6 came out, its around $160.


 

 Lyra are not hybrid only 15.2mm dynamic.


----------



## emusic13

jant71 said:


> Lyra are not hybrid only 15.2mm dynamic.




Amazon must have gotten the description mixed up with the AX-60 then because thats what was in the description when I last saw it. I thought it was similar to the Dunu Alpha series.


----------



## golov17

darkzenith said:


> So, no VE Zen 2.0 with Cardas cable for you?


yup


----------



## goodyfresh

So if there is such a thing as HYBRID-driver earbuds, then does that mean that the VE earbuds (Zen and Zen 2.0) which only have a single dynamic driver, are actually *not the best earbuds in the world*, as many claim them to be?  Are hybrid ones capable of sounding even better than the ones from VE?  If so, which ones?  If not, then why?


----------



## DJScope

goodyfresh said:


> So if there is such a thing as HYBRID-driver earbuds, then does that mean that the VE earbuds (Zen and Zen 2.0) which only have a single dynamic driver, are actually *not the best earbuds in the world*, as many claim them to be?  Are hybrid ones capable of sounding even better than the ones from VE?  If so, which ones?  If not, then why?


 
  
 The only REAL hybrid earbud is the DUNU Alpha 1 and they have a patent on the design. I've not seen any other legitimate hybrid earbuds.
  
 http://www.dunu-topsound.com/ALPHA1.html


----------



## jant71

The only thing that is important is the design and tuning success. Best earbud could be any configuration just done right or best. VE are done better. Hard enough to tune a hybrid for an in-ear and that would be more difficult for a bud. VE tunes well and is far above just getting different driver types to mesh and be cohesive. Obviously no issue with that being single dynamic and VE buds are natural sounding and emotive, and have very good PRaT. Keeping those traits with a hybrid earbud design would be some feat. My money would not be bet on a hybrid for best bud because there are more hurdles making it less likely than a dynamic.
  
 DUNU even did a decent job with a hybrid earbud but it is too big for many people and one hurdle they didn't get past. Also seemed to have tuned the life out of them as more than few call them cold or sterile. Yes, you made them cohesive and, yes, you highlighted the armature detail and separation but not one person extols any of the virtues that they do with the VE phones. Natural, nope. Toe tapping, nope. Rich satisfying bass, nope. One reviewer didn't even do a sound section for the Alpha since they weren't able to fit them. Maybe if they tried again with a 12mm driver and armature instead of a 16mm driver they would have better luck.


----------



## goodyfresh

jant71 said:


> The only thing that is important is the design and tuning success. Best earbud could be any configuration just done right or best. VE are done better. Hard enough to tune a hybrid for an in-ear and that would be more difficult for a bud. VE tunes well and is far above just getting different driver types to mesh and be cohesive. Obviously no issue with that being single dynamic and VE buds are natural sounding and emotive, and have very good PRaT. Keeping those traits with a hybrid earbud design would be some feat. My money would not be bet on a hybrid for best bud because there are more hurdles making it less likely than a dynamic.
> 
> DUNU even did a decent job with a hybrid earbud but it is too big for many people and one hurdle they didn't get past. Also seemed to have tuned the life out of them as more than few call them cold or sterile. Yes, you made them cohesive and, yes, you highlighted the armature detail and separation but not one person extols any of the virtues that they do with the VE phones. Natural, nope. Toe tapping, nope. Rich satisfying bass, nope. One reviewer didn't even do a sound section for the Alpha since they weren't able to fit them. Maybe if they tried again with a 12mm driver and armature instead of a 16mm driver they would have better luck.


 

 Heck, I have trouble even *getting a good fit with* the VE buds (my Monks), as in, I can't get them to actully slide under and sit snugly behind the ridges of my teeny-tiny little ears.  As a result, I unfortunately get reallyyyy anemic bass from them that is lacking in almost any content below 65Hz or so.  But I still love the sound anyway.
  
 Now apparently, the VE Zen 2.0 have managed to get a sound-signature that is actually BEST without the usual kind of "semi-sort-of-'seal'" that many people like to get with earbuds, and still gets good bass even then, and so I am looking forward to getting the Zen 2.0 as they should be perfect-sounding for someone like me with tiny ears who wears earbuds by having them sit loosely against the outer parts of my ear openings rather than being able to slide them to fit under the ridges


----------



## goodyfresh

So, elaborating on my last post:  Are there any REALLY GOOD earbuds out there that are a few millimeters smaller than the ones from VE, and would thus fit snugly behind the ridges in my outer ears to achieve a good semi-seal with good bass, and would thus _*possibly *_provide a better upgrade over the Monks for me than the Zen 2.0 would?


----------



## chompy

goodyfresh said:


> So, elaborating on my last post:  Are there any REALLY GOOD earbuds out there that are a few millimeters smaller than the ones from VE, and would thus fit snugly behind the ridges in my outer ears to achieve a good semi-seal with good bass, and would thus _*possibly *_provide a better upgrade over the Monks for me than the Zen 2.0 would?


 
  
 I have the same problem with my Monks, and definitely my Edifier H180 fit better in my ears giving me a much better bass, but I miss Monks highs, so maybe I'll buy soon Edifier H185 that golov has recocommended me as it seems they have H180 bass with better treble extension.
  
 Other buds I have that fit ok in my ears are Yuin PK3, but I prefer H180 over them (better bass).


----------



## rggz

goodyfresh said:


> So, elaborating on my last post:  Are there any REALLY GOOD earbuds out there that are a few millimeters smaller than the ones from VE, and would thus fit snugly behind the ridges in my outer ears to achieve a good semi-seal with good bass, and would thus _*possibly *_provide a better upgrade over the Monks for me than the Zen 2.0 would?


 

 Try a Mrice E100, they are more suitable for vocals, had a nice treble extension specially with cymbals (w/ foams), and E100 is bit smaller than Monk. For just ~$15 will be nice for your journey with earbuds. They're similar to Grados_ Love–hate relationship _for me is love 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Trzystatrzy

Good, V-shaped sound (just like Blox BE3), but in smaller housing? Love fit of my Yuin Pk3 and looking for different sound signature. Just for fun


----------



## rymd

goodyfresh said:


> So, elaborating on my last post:  Are there any REALLY GOOD earbuds out there that are a few millimeters smaller than the ones from VE, and would thus fit snugly behind the ridges in my outer ears to achieve a good semi-seal with good bass, and would thus _*possibly *_provide a better upgrade over the Monks for me than the Zen 2.0 would?


 
 I don't think so, as VE uses a pretty standard shell you'll find everywhere. E100 as already mentioned is much smaller and probably my choice, but not an upgrade over Monk (sidegrade). The Yuins are only very slightly smaller. Senn MX98x is a bit smaller in diameter, but also thicker/bulkier. H180 is smaller but not an upgrade. Apple's EarPods, with their unorthodox but ergonomic design, might be your best bet for getting a "semi-seal with good bass" out of any earbud product. But EarPods are also not quite an upgrade from Monk, though still enjoyable to me. With earbuds, comfort is just something you have to toss out and deal with. The first few months of using earbuds caused great pain for me (< hour before extreme pain), but gradually I got used to it and can now keep an MX500 shell in for hours at a time.


----------



## jant71

These...http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Active-In-Ear-Headset-Sapphire/dp/B0118DWJQA...are small.
  
 Too small for me actually as I use Earhoox over the caps to get the right fit/sound/bass. They are my best bud right now. Slightly better than the P180 and then the E100 comes in third place for me.
  
 Not sure how they compare to the Monk yet but I get the Monks tomorrow if USPS tracking is on point  I know they would fit better but probably be a side grade.


----------



## B9Scrambler

goodyfresh said:


> So, elaborating on my last post:  Are there any REALLY GOOD earbuds out there that are a few millimeters smaller than the ones from VE, and would thus fit snugly behind the ridges in my outer ears to achieve a good semi-seal with good bass, and would thus _*possibly*_ provide a better upgrade over the Monks for me than the Zen 2.0 would?




I don't know if they're considered really good, but I like them quite a bit; the Sennheiser MX470. Has a pretty small driver for an earbud, and as a result is pretty dang comfortable. Fairly neutral sound with nice bass. Might be worth looking into *shrug*.


----------



## goodyfresh

rymd said:


> I don't think so, as VE uses a pretty standard shell you'll find everywhere. E100 as already mentioned is much smaller and probably my choice, but not an upgrade over Monk (sidegrade). The Yuins are only very slightly smaller. Senn MX98x is a bit smaller in diameter, but also thicker/bulkier. H180 is smaller but not an upgrade. Apple's EarPods, with their unorthodox but ergonomic design, might be your best bet for getting a "semi-seal with good bass" out of any earbud product. But EarPods are also not quite an upgrade from Monk, though still enjoyable to me. With earbuds, comfort is just something you have to toss out and deal with. The first few months of using earbuds caused great pain for me (< hour before extreme pain), but gradually I got used to it and can now keep an MX500 shell in for hours at a time.


 

 It's not that it even causes pain for me to keep the Monks in my ears.  I can't even actually get them IN my ears, as in, I can't get them to fit snugly under the ridges in my ears AT ALL, they just kind of sit loosely in the very outside of my ears and I can't get them any further than that, let alone actually make them nestle down into the crook/ridges.
  
  
 Anyway, thanks for all the advice, guys.  I think I'll just get the Zen 2.0 since apparently they actually have EXCESSIVE bass when one does achieve a good fit and true seal, and according to Brooko, as a result they have GOOD, balanced bass with a poor seal, so they should probably be perfect for me.

@golov17, as the big "earbud man" on this site, have YOU got any advice for me when it comes to earbuds, as a guy with really small ears with the fit-problems with the Monks that I have described?


----------



## DJScope

Just got the VE Zen 2.0 and OMG they're brilliant!


----------



## RedJohn456

goodyfresh said:


> It's not that it even causes pain for me to keep the Monks in my ears.  I can't even actually get them IN my ears, as in, I can't get them to fit snugly under the ridges in my ears AT ALL, they just kind of sit loosely in the very outside of my ears and I can't get them any further than that, let alone actually make them nestle down into the crook/ridges.
> 
> 
> Anyway, thanks for all the advice, guys.  I think I'll just get the Zen 2.0 since apparently they actually have EXCESSIVE bass when one does achieve a good fit and true seal, and according to Brooko, as a result they have GOOD, balanced bass with a poor seal, so they should probably be perfect for me.
> ...


 

 uhh they dont have excessive bass with a good fit, not sure where you got that from, they have a good balanced bass with a correct seal for me.


----------



## goodyfresh

redjohn456 said:


> uhh they dont have excessive bass with a good fit, not sure where you got that from, they have a good balanced bass with a correct seal for me.


 

 I got that from Brooko's "with foams" measurements. . . .


----------



## golov17

everything has already been said, nothing to add. I think the problem is not to fit to your ears, but with your inexperience use earbuds form-factor, imho


----------



## RedJohn456

goodyfresh said:


> I got that from Brooko's "with foams" measurements. . . .


 

 thats just it though, the earbuds are not bassy in and of themselves. The foam makes it too bassy, the Zen 2.0 is meant to be used foamless. It goes without saying that measurements only tell half the story. I think you are misinterpreting the graph 
  
 The Zen 2.0 is tonally balanced top to bottom. Best bet would be to use earhoox or get those circular rubber rims for earbuds. The rims give me the best seal and great bass extension, and the sub bass sounds great as well


----------



## golov17

people! earbuds is not IEM! they do not require a tight fit. just bit turned the sound varies, with different foams sound varies, and a great variety of options to bring joy to the listener. Graphic's is only half the story, IMHO


----------



## goodyfresh

redjohn456 said:


> thats just it though, the earbuds are not bassy in and of themselves. The foam makes it too bassy, the Zen 2.0 is meant to be used foamless. It goes without saying that measurements only tell half the story. I think you are misinterpreting the graph
> 
> The Zen 2.0 is tonally balanced top to bottom. Best bet would be to use earhoox or get those circular rubber rims for earbuds. The rims give me the best seal and great bass extension, and the sub bass sounds great as well


 

 In MY case, getting rubber rims would make the fit even worse, since the issue is the diameter is too large for them to nestle into the ridges of my ears.


----------



## RedJohn456

goodyfresh said:


> In MY case, getting rubber rims would make the fit even worse, since the issue is the diameter is too large for them to nestle into the ridges of my ears.


 

 Its provides good grip in my case, but ymmv ofc


----------



## goodyfresh

redjohn456 said:


> Its provides good grip in my case, but ymmv ofc


 

 You have to understand, I have very small ears for a 5'8" tall adult male.


----------



## DJScope

redjohn456 said:


> uhh they dont have excessive bass with a good fit, not sure where you got that from, they have a good balanced bass with a correct seal for me.


 
  
 I concur with this. I am using the Zen 2.0 with the Heigi foam donuts and they don't have excessive bass or loose bass. I would call them warm, but still natural and organic sounding with lots of detail up top.


----------



## golov17

goodyfresh said:


> It's not that it even causes pain for me to keep the Monks in my ears.  I can't even actually get them IN my ears, as in, I can't get them to fit snugly under the ridges in my ears AT ALL, they just kind of sit loosely in the very outside of my ears and I can't get them any further than that, let alone actually make them nestle down into the crook/ridges.
> 
> 
> Anyway, thanks for all the advice, guys.  I think I'll just get the Zen 2.0 since apparently they actually have EXCESSIVE bass when one does achieve a good fit and true seal, and according to Brooko, as a result they have GOOD, balanced bass with a poor seal, so they should probably be perfect for me.
> ...



Just try this


----------



## RedJohn456

golov17 said:


> people! earbuds is not IEM! they do not require a tight fit. just bit turned the sound varies, with different foams sound varies, and a great variety of options to bring joy to the listener. Graphic's is only half the story, IMHO


 
  
 I agree, I actually hate how an earbud sounds when you get 100% seal, loses soundstage and becomes too congested. A an ever so slightly loose fit gives me the most clear sound.
  


djscope said:


> I concur with this. I am using the Zen 2.0 with the Heigi foam donuts and they don't have excessive bass or loose bass. I would call them warm, but still natural and organic sounding with lots of detail up top.


 

 Igor, try and running them commando, they have quite amazing clarity when run out of a good source. Personally speaking I find it too be too warm with any sort of foam but as with anything ymmv 
  
 Here is what I did to get mine to sound awesome
  

  
 If you can spare a pair of earhoox, attach it and remove the fins. This gives me good grip and traction. Awesome tight balance top to bottom! Without giving a full seal (which would degrade the sound) it gives enough of a seal around most of the circumference of the earbud that you can ear bass extension all the way to sub bass.
  
 Try this at your risk, only if you have a pair to spare. I am gonna be sacrificing all my earhoox for this little "mod".


----------



## golov17

Thank you, I will also try it ... Excess steam earhook is available


----------



## goodyfresh

golov17 said:


> Just try this


 
 Thanks for teh recommendation, "earbud man!"   I sent you a PM asking for a couple details about your impressions of those.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

goodyfresh said:


> Thanks for teh recommendation, "earbud man!"   I sent you a PM asking for a couple details about your impressions of those.


 
  
 The 328R/328RM are currently on sale at Massdrop too:  https://www.massdrop.com/buy/blue-ever-blue-328r
  
  
 Also I agree 100% that @golov17 should have the custom title "Earbud Man".
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> The 328R/328RM are currently on sale at Massdrop too:  https://www.massdrop.com/buy/blue-ever-blue-328r
> 
> 
> Also I agree 100% that @golov17
> ...


do not exaggerate..


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> do not exaggerate..


 


 Honestly man, no one here knows more about them than you.  You are very helpful to many of the members here, including me.  
  
 So thank you!


----------



## golov17

Sizes comparison..


----------



## goodyfresh

bloodypenguin said:


> The 328R/328RM are currently on sale at Massdrop too:  https://www.massdrop.com/buy/blue-ever-blue-328r
> 
> 
> Also I agree 100% that @golov17 should have the custom title "Earbud Man".
> ...


 
  


bloodypenguin said:


> Honestly man, no one here knows more about them than you.  You are very helpful to many of the members here, including me.
> 
> So thank you!


 
 Don't be so shy about it @golov17, from what I've seen this guy here is right, nobody on this site seems to be as into earbuds, specifically, as you are.
  
 Me, I like earbuds in certain respects more than IEM's.  I obviously like IEM's for the better isolation, and for the fact they are able to get a more balanced signature with better sub-bass and less distortion.  On the other hand, earbuds have some great strengths compared to IEM's. . .specifically, they have a more open sound resulting in better separation and VASTLY better soundstage, with excellent imaging capabilities.  I'd say that between earbuds and IEM's is a real trade-off. . .sometimes I'm more in the mood for one, sometimes for the other.


----------



## goodyfresh

golov17 said:


> Sizes comparison..


 

 Thank you for that!  Those look like they should fit my ears much better than the VE Buds 

 Not that I'm not still gonna get the Zen 2.0 at some point of course   But I'll probably get the 328R for when I want a more snug fit from earbuds 
  
 So do the 328R manage to get sub-bass with reasonably low distortion?


 OH OH OH and could you take one more pic for me?  Specifically, a comparison of the THICKNESS of the housings rather than just the diameter?  That would be amazing if you could 

 One further question.  How do the Yuin PK-x line and the Blox earbuds compare, in terms of housing-size, to the VE buds?


----------



## golov17

No problem..


----------



## goodyfresh

golov17 said:


> No problem..


 

 Hmmmmm. . .well thanks!  Definitely looks like somethign that might work for me in terms of fit  And for only 30 bucks I don't see why I shouldn't just go out on a limb and give it a try


----------



## goodyfresh

golov17 said:


> No problem..


 

 So, another question.  How would you say the size of the Yuin PK1 housings and the various Sennheiser earbuds' housings, and the Blox earbuds' housings, compare to those of the VE Monks?  I know you have all three (the Yuins, some Senn's if I remember correctly that you said so once, and some Blox), think you could make a comparison with some pics sometime?  Since I have small ears, shopping for earbuds is tough fo rme, so I really hjust want to get a good idea of the various sizes they come in.


----------



## golov17

Absolutely identical housing VE & Blox


----------



## goodyfresh

golov17 said:


> Absolutely identical housing VE & Blox


 

 Gah, okay.  ANd not sure about the Yuins or the Sennheisers?


----------



## golov17

All yuin also


----------



## rymd

No, that's not true. Yuin shells are considerably slimmer than MX500 (VE/Blox) shells.
  
 I did some quick measurements by eye, so probably a bit of error here:
  
 MX500 diameter: 1.8 cm
 Yuin diameter: 1.6 cm
 Senn MX98x diameter: 1.7 cm
  
 MX500 thickness at the widest part: 0.5 cm
 Yuin thickness at the widest part: 0.35 cm
 Senn MX98x thickness at the widest part: 0.4 cm


----------



## goodyfresh

rymd said:


> No, that's not true. Yuin shells are considerably slimmer than MX500 (VE/Blox) shells.
> 
> I did some quick measurements by eye, so probably a bit of error here:
> 
> ...


 

 Um. . .1.8mm and 0.5mm?  Do you mean 18mm and 5mm?  Lol?


----------



## golov17

rymd said:


> No, that's not true. Yuin shells are considerably slimmer than MX500 (VE/Blox) shells.
> 
> I did some quick measurements by eye, so probably a bit of error here:
> 
> ...


between themselves (yuins) lol


----------



## rggz

@golov17  Do you like the PK1? What's your favorites buds? =D


----------



## goodyfresh

So here's a question, guys.  Does Tyll from Innerfidelity not know how to properly set up his rig to measure earbus?  Because his earbuds measurements always seem to end up looking like this:
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/YuinPK1.pdf

 Holy crap.  LOOK AT THAT DISTORTION.  Look at that COMPLETE LACK OF BASS.  I find it impossible to believe that a product costing over 100 dollars, which people seem to love a great deal, measures that damn badly, because with measuremetns like that it couldn't possibly sound good.
  
 Thoughts, anyone?  Does Tyll just not like earbuds much and so he doesn't bother setting up the measuring rig well for them, or something?


----------



## golov17

rggz said:


> @golov17
> Do you like the PK1? What's your favorites buds? =D


 After VE beta Asura, no


----------



## emusic13

I think the PK1 is good( I use donut foams if that matters) but that may change once I get Zen 2.0 But then again, Ive had my PK1 for about 4 years so it could be its time anyway


----------



## rymd

goodyfresh said:


> Um. . .1.8mm and 0.5mm?  Do you mean 18mm and 5mm?  Lol?


 
 yeah... that was supposed to be cm.
  


golov17 said:


> between themselves (yuins) lol


 
 o
 but he was asking about yuins vs other


----------



## golov17

Blue ever Blue vs VE


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

goodyfresh said:


> So here's a question, guys.  Does Tyll from Innerfidelity not know how to properly set up his rig to measure earbus?  Because his earbuds measurements always seem to end up looking like this:
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/YuinPK1.pdf
> 
> ...


 
  
 They're ear buds, and lack any kind of good seal.  Ear buds are _the worst_ of all types of headphone because of it. The PK1 actually measures pretty well compared to other ear buds.


----------



## goodyfresh

tyll hertsens said:


> They're ear buds, and lack any kind of good seal.  Ear buds are _the worst_ of all types of headphone because of it. The PK1 actually measures pretty well compared to other ear buds.


 
 I don't hear levels of distortion THAT high from earbuds though, man :-/


----------



## chrisjackson

goodyfresh said:


> I don't hear levels of distortion THAT high from earbuds though, man :-/


 
 Don't worry about it. Some mammals remember when wow, flutter and rumble measurements were the only available criteria for judging a turntable.


----------



## chrisjackson

BTW on a serious note (OK not very) I find a difference between the VE Monk and AKG K317 in that I prefer the former with as tight a seal as possible in my ears. I see the latter doesn't have any holes on the rear of the housing and does sound congested to me when fitting very tightly.


----------



## goodyfresh

chrisjackson said:


> Don't worry about it. Some mammals remember when wow, flutter and rumble measurements were the only available criteria for judging a turntable.


 

 LMAO I am not an elephant-seal, dude


----------



## waynes world

chrisjackson said:


> BTW on a serious note (OK not very) I find a difference between the VE Monk and AKG K317 in that I prefer the former with as tight a seal as possible in my ears. I see the latter doesn't have any holes on the rear of the housing and does sound congested to me when fitting very tightly.


 
  
 You avatar... V7... good headphone!


----------



## waynes world

tyll hertsens said:


> They're ear buds, and lack any kind of good seal.  Ear buds are _the worst_ of all types of headphone because of it. The PK1 actually measures pretty well compared to other ear buds.


 
  
 Hi Tyll, thanks for dropping by. I think that you would love the VE Zens (regardless of how they measure). Hopefully you get a chance to hear them some day.


----------



## chrisjackson

goodyfresh said:


> LMAO I am not an elephant-seal, dude


 
 Sorry, no offence intended; it wasn't meant to be a picture of you.
 My understanding is that your all-consuming issue is _lack of_ seal rather than _being one_. Maybe it was unconscious tact at work which prevented me from posting these links to pictures of Monk Seals :
 http://www.hawaiipictureoftheday.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/hawaiian-monk-seal.jpg
 https://www.nwf.org/~/media/Content/National%20Wildlife%20Magazine%20Layouts/2013/monk-seals-DJ13-1.ashx
 Seriously, do hope you can find a satisfactory solution to your requirements.


----------



## chrisjackson

waynes world said:


> You avatar... V7... good headphone!


 
 They were about £70 back in 1989/90 which might seem quite a lot now but I suppose such things were more expensive. Still I reckon they gave good service : got plenty of use and at no time felt like they would fail me. Usual postscript : with a nephew now...


----------



## goodyfresh

waynes world said:


> Hi Tyll, thanks for dropping by. I think that you would love the VE Zens (regardless of how they measure). Hopefully you get a chance to hear them some day.


 

 I bet he'd even love the Monks, especially given the pricetag on them!  Despite how earbuds seem to measure with his rig, I do NOT hear such high levels of distortion in the bass from the Monks, ever, I mean really, 10% or higher THD+N at 100Hz???  That is NOT what I hear from the Monks.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I guess I am lucky, I get a very nice seal in some of my earbuds.  The bass quality on my Suvov S20/S10 is one of the best of any of my inventory.
  
 --


----------



## golov17

Del


----------



## goodyfresh

@golov17
  
 I joined the BeB 328R Mass Drop   I'll let you know what I think of them once they get to me in mid-to-late December!
  
 Thanks again for the recommendation!  I'm hoping they'll fit my ears better than the Monks do, and will sound better than the Monks too, as you seem to think they probably will in my case :-D  If not, it's no big deal, they were only 20 dollars and if I end up not liking them they could make a good gift to a friend for Christmas


----------



## golov17

goodyfresh said:


> @golov17
> 
> 
> I joined the BeB 328R Mass Drop   I'll let you know what I think of them once they get to me in mid-to-late December!
> ...


OK, good luck


----------



## chrisjackson

bloodypenguin said:


> I guess I am lucky, I get a very nice seal in some of my earbuds.


 
 My recollection is that quite a lot of perseverance was involved?...


----------



## chrisjackson

Creative Aurvana Air as cheap as have ever seen 'em :
 http://uk.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/aurvana-air


----------



## BloodyPenguin

chrisjackson said:


> Creative Aurvana Air as cheap as have ever seen 'em :
> http://uk.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/aurvana-air




Prices should be coming down as there is an updated version coming. Not sure the eta though.


----------



## yacobx

hey man, where did you get your Musa sp2's from.... i can not find them at all....


----------



## BloodyPenguin

yacobx said:


> hey man, where did you get your Musa sp2's from.... i can not find them at all....


 
 Got them from here:  http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/42513796502.html
  
 But to be honest, they were no that good.  I gave them to my niece to beat up on.  I regret buying them.
  
 --


----------



## yacobx

bloodypenguin said:


> Got them from here:  http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/42513796502.html
> 
> But to be honest, they were no that good.  I gave them to my niece to beat up on.  I regret buying them.
> 
> --


 
 dang it. but they look so good.


----------



## golov17

http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=42058513071&wp_m=hotsell_goods_-1&wp_pk=shop/index_68094326_15734509&from=inshop&wp_app=weapp&wp_p=42058513071
Guys from Indonesia recommended this


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=42058513071&wp_m=hotsell_goods_-1&wp_pk=shop/index_68094326_15734509&from=inshop&wp_app=weapp&wp_p=42058513071
> Guys from Indonesia recommended this


 
  
 I should have bought those instead.
  
  
 Here is the non-mobile link:  http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/43065667673.html
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

do not worry, when purchasing new models without listening to earbuds from Taobao, there are some unpleasant moments, but there are and pleasant, lol


----------



## AudioNewbi3

So, has anyone tried the boarsman? How do they compare to the Musa SP?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

By the way, my Sidy/BGVP KT100 just arrived from taobao today. Now I have a question to ask about them. 

My KT100 does not have any y split, instead, it is just 2 silver wires, each of the wires going to a single earpiece and then straight down into the connector. I'll post a picture later.

Is this normal?


----------



## DarkZenith

audionewbi3 said:


> So, has anyone tried the boarsman? How do they compare to the Musa SP?


 

 I bought a pair a long time ago and I think they have a very warm sound sig and a fairly poor resolution (= lack of details). Awei ES10 are far better in that category, imho (or even Dasetn M3).


----------



## BloodyPenguin

darkzenith said:


> I bought a pair a long time ago and I think they have a very warm sound sig and a fairly poor resolution (= lack of details). Awei ES10 are far better in that category, imho (or even Dasetn M3).


 

 Are you saying the Boarsman or Musa SP2 has the poor resolution?


----------



## DarkZenith

Sorry: I meant the Boarseman 25.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

darkzenith said:


> Sorry: I meant the Boarseman 25.


 

 No problem.  Guess I will avoid the Boarseman as well.
  
  
 Too be honest, ever since I got my Suvov S10/S20 I have not really had any desire to purchase any more earbuds.  The Suvov is just the perfect blend of fun, soundstage and clarity that I have yet to find in any other earbud.
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> By the way, my Sidy/BGVP KT100 just arrived from taobao today. Now I have a question to ask about them.
> 
> My KT100 does not have any y split, instead, it is just 2 silver wires, each of the wires going to a single earpiece and then straight down into the connector. I'll post a picture later.
> 
> Is this normal?


Break them with force to the splitter


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> Break them with force to the splitter




Ah Thanks for the pictures mate! I saw that on my KT100, thought was some tape. Never knew it was the spliter. Luckily I did not remive that part.

Cheers!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

By the way Mr Golov, mind I ask what accesories did your KT100 came with? 

Mine came with a beats earbud case and a white sennheiser shirt clip. Is that normal?

And does the KT100 need burn in?


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> By the way Mr Golov, mind I ask what accesories did your KT100 came with?
> 
> Mine came with a beats earbud case and a white sennheiser shirt clip. Is that normal?
> 
> And does the KT100 need burn in?


I do not remember, sorry


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> I do not remember, sorry




Nah its okay mate !


----------



## golov17

Well, VeZen2.0. After the burn, increased mid-bass has passed, and now it's a very delicate headphones to my ears. I'm impressed, really. For those who love Senn mx980 is strongly recommended!


----------



## DarkZenith

golov17 said:


> Well, VeZen2.0. After the burn, increased mid-bass has passed, and now it's a very delicate headphones to my ears. I'm impressed, really. For those who love Senn mx980 is strongly recommended!


 

 With or without foams, golov17?


----------



## golov17

With rubber rings without foams!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Mr Golov, can I kindly know whether the Sidy KT100 needs burn in? If so, how long?


----------



## DarkZenith

golov17 said:


> With rubber rings without foams!


 

 Smart! Thank you.


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Mr Golov, can I kindly know whether the Sidy KT100 needs burn in? If so, how long?


maybe 24 h


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> maybe 24 h


 
 Alright! Thanks for the info mate!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> With rubber rings without foams!


 
  
 Are these the same rubber rings?  http://world.taobao.com/item/39836851866.htm
  
 --


----------



## golov17

Hmm, this from Cresyn & Thomson


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> Are these the same rubber rings?  http://world.taobao.com/item/39836851866.htm
> 
> --


 
 Hey mate, those are rubber band used to tied your amp with your dap


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> Hey mate, those are rubber band used to tied your amp with your dap


 
 Thanks, then that is NOT what I need then.  Ha..


----------



## rggz

golov17 said:


> With rubber rings without foams!


 

 Idk if this a "fair play", but.. Can you compare them with Mrice E100 for vocals/mids/speed? E100 is my reference for good vocals and crisp sound in earbud world... so will be cool some point of view between them.


----------



## golov17

Sorry, no. This unreal for me..
too different beasts. Ask in thread VE. I think there is somebody, can help for you.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Mr Golov, may I kindly know where did you get your earpiece rubber?
  
 EDIT: Found it
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.53.KoVTad&id=37863152784&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> Mr Golov, may I kindly know where did you get your earpiece rubber?
> 
> EDIT: Found it
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.53.KoVTad&id=37863152784&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail


 
 Awesome.  I need a set.
  
 ..


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Guys, I am just so in love with my BGVP KT100 right now! I am listening more with it compared to my Sony XBA10 and Hifiman RE400.
I am thinking of getting a Musa SP2, will that be a downgrade or sidegrade? Or can anything top the KT100 (No diy) besides the Asuras and Zens?


----------



## golov17

http://www.blueeverblue.com/product_model_328.html
& Yuin pk2


----------



## AudioNewbi3

O





golov17 said:


> http://www.blueeverblue.com/product_model_328.html
> & Yuin pk2



Thanks for the reply mate! Since the PK2 and the Asura are so similar in price, which would you go for?


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> O
> Thanks for the reply mate! Since the PK2 and the Asura are so similar in price, which would you go for?


16 Ohm vs 150 Ohm. Both


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> 16 Ohm vs 150 Ohm. Both



Hahaha I also wish I could afford both mate! But it's hard being a student on a budget...... 

If you could only choose one, which one would it be?


----------



## golov17

Asura, done


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> Asura, done




Asura it is then. Thanks mate!


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Asura it is then. Thanks mate!


 Cheers


----------



## Grayson73

Can someone compare Monk and E100 in these respects:
  
 1.  More bass slam
 2.  Bigger soundstage / more separation / more airy
 3.  Better female vocals
 4.  Sounds good from cellphone


----------



## cocopro

grayson73 said:


> Can someone compare Monk and E100 in these respects:
> 
> 1.  More bass slam
> 2.  Bigger soundstage / more separation / more airy
> ...


 
 E100's bass goes a lot deeper (but slightly less mid bass), no big difference in soundstage and drivability to my ears.


----------



## ForceMajeure

The problem with the E100 is you don't know what you will get, apparently the earlier ones were great sounding but the latest iterations seems to not be on par. 
 It's a bit of a lottery. Those who got the good ones praise them like there's no tomorrow, but others that got them recently don't know what was the hype all about.
 Another problem with the E100 is the fit.
 Personally I was interested in the E100  but lost interest after hearing about it not being as good as it was supposed to be, I then heard about this Monk, took a bite as soon as they were on sale on Ali and never regreted it (we are talking about 8 dollars including shipping... right). 
 The best aspects about the Monk are: wide soundstage with nice layering, not the typical missing earbud bass, bass have punch and presence, goes low without making the all presentation muddy. Mids and high are in line with each other. They have a bit of darkness to them that makes them them not sounding tiny and sibilant.


----------



## kurtextrem

Yeah, the E100 hurt my ears. Monk fits perfectly and sounds better


----------



## yacobx

i cant wait to try these


----------



## Grayson73

ClieOS, when are you going to try the monk and put them in this thread?  They are back for sale now, $5!


----------



## ClieOS

grayson73 said:


> ClieOS, when are you going to try the monk and put them in this thread?  They are back for sale now, $5!




Already have it. It is time I need.


----------



## golov17

Fiio m3 buds

Buds Remax rm303

Similar or not?


----------



## chompy

Have you listened them? 



golov17 said:


> Fiio m3 buds
> 
> Buds Remax rm303
> 
> Similar or not?


----------



## golov17

Also not, but..


----------



## Saoshyant

I've only given the included Fiio M3 earbuds a very short try so far, but they're really not terrible. I'll try to remember to unpack my other earbuds to compare soonish.


----------



## goodyfresh

So I received my Blue Ever Blue 328R earbuds from Massdrop and I have to say, they do fit me much better (with their smaller-diameter housings) than the Monks, and sound very very good for the price I paid of only 20 dollars!

 Thank you for the recommendation, @golov17


----------



## BloodyPenguin

goodyfresh said:


> So I received my Blue Ever Blue 328R earbuds from Massdrop and I have to say, they do fit me much better (with their smaller-diameter housings) than the Monks, and sound very very good for the price I paid of only 20 dollars!
> 
> Thank you for the recommendation, @golov17


 
  
 Vote @golov17 for Earbud President!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 I have the RM Version of these and they are very decent.  Though I really need to start cleaning up my earbud inventory, it is getting out of hand.
  
 I have the Blue Ever Blue 328RM, Sunrise AS-Feeling II and Mrice E100 I think I will be selling off soon here.  I'll post up a link when I get the for sale thread together.  Think I might throw a few other earbuds in there as well.
  
 ..


----------



## jant71

Zelda alerted me to these suckers seemingly showing themselves finally...

  

  
 They do look good though!


----------



## golov17

http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=a1z5f.7632060.0.0&id=525100961450
$95 on Tao


----------



## ClieOS

jant71 said:


> Zelda alerted me to these suckers seemingly showing themselves finally..
> 
> 
> They do look good though!


 
  
 Early impression from the Chinese review tour seems to suggest Ostry has a winner at hand, unfortunately it is only on pre-order as of now and not release just yet. I'll love to pre-order one on Taobao but you'll need a Chinese debit or credit card for that. Shame.


----------



## waynes world

clieos said:


> Early impression from the Chinese review tour seems to suggest Ostry has a winner at hand, unfortunately it is only on pre-order as of now and not release just yet. I'll love to pre-order one on Taobao but you'll need a Chinese debit or credit card for that. Shame.


 
  
 I'm glad to read this! I've love my kc06a's, so I've always had high hopes for their supposed earbuds. Awesome!


----------



## waynes world

jant71 said:


> Zelda alerted me to these suckers seemingly showing themselves finally...
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> ...


 
  
 Damn, they do!


----------



## golov17

Also balanced Shozy Cygnus +20$


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, I've ordered a Senn MX-985. Everything I've read makes it sound like an earbud I'll most likely enjoy, and i must admit it looks utterly gorgeous from the pictures I've seen


----------



## Danneq

Damn it! Add KC08 to the other high end earbuds I have to check out (Astrotec Lyra, VE Zen 2.0, Hifiman ES100, Celsus Gramo One, Dunu Alpha 1)!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> Also balanced Shozy Cygnus +20$


 
  
 Do you have a link where to buy?  
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

http://m.intl.taobao.com/search/search.html?q=shozy&_from=tw_product


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> http://m.intl.taobao.com/search/search.html?q=shozy&_from=tw_product


 


 Thank you for the link, not quite working for me though.  I will keep messing with it and see what I can do.
  
  
 EDIT, I found this link, but it is showing up as about $85 USD, not $20:  http://world.taobao.com/item/525119752436.htm?fromSite=main
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

Nonono, balanced edition +20$ 

$85-105


----------



## nightgost

I bougth the ve zen from mistertao with dhl shipping (3-7 working days for 27$) on November 25th ... they say its shipped on 3rd December and i got nothing until now, not even tracking works -.-  
  
 oh and they answer like machines, i think my questions are being translated to chinese, they write in chinese and its translated back to english, so they have to double check everything i say...
  
 I WANT TO FLY!!! (running with monks xD)


----------



## golov17

ve monk in stock again  200 pcs


----------



## shankar

Edit: This was meant to be a reply to @BloodyPenguin's post about sellling the BEB 328RM.
  
 Please let me know when you have decided on the BEB 328RM. Would love to try it out.
  
 Ordered the VE Monk today in AE and VE says that I could receive it even before Christmas. 
  
 My Mrice E100A experiment was a disappointment. Hope one of these work out!
  
 Also, where can I get Suvov S20 or S10 and what is the difference between them? Thanks!


----------



## golov17

waynes world said:


> I'm glad to read this! I've love my kc06a's, so I've always had high hopes for their supposed earbuds. Awesome!



not enough bass.. From review


----------



## waynes world

golov17 said:


> not enough bass.. From review


 
  
 Huh - too bad! If you see any English reviews worth linking, please do so! Thanks golov!


----------



## golov17

Maybe, ClieOS, will receive it..


----------



## golov17

I think that the best choice at this time, it Zen2.0


----------



## golov17

Also, we will wait Ve Asura2.0, which will be set up for vocal lovers


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> Also, we will wait Ve Asura2.0, which will be set up for vocal lovers




Will there be a ASURA 2.0? The official seller at Taobao mentioned that they will not be producing anymore Asura for the next 2 months. I guess thats because theyre developing the 2.0?


----------



## golov17

In the future..


----------



## chompy

Too bad... Ostry KC08 few bass and Asura 2.0 tuned for vocal... It seems there's nothing good in the horizon for V shaped sound lovers: don't like Monks (extremely mid centric for me), Edifier H180 is too dark (highs are really rolled off) and Edifier H185 is too bright (equallizing them with a +12dB bass bust gives me the best approach to what I'm looking for).


----------



## golov17

Suvov S20 U-sig for you..


----------



## chrisjackson

Welcome shankar.
  
 Suvov S10 vs S20 (hope  golov17 doesn't mind) :
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up-update-april-25th-2015/930#post_11614153
  
 The taobao and mistertao sites seem to have sellers :
 http://world.taobao.com/search/search.htm?_ksTS=1450343643768_48&spm=a21bp.7806943.20151106.1&_input_charset=utf-8&navigator=all&json=on&q=suvov&callback=__jsonp_cb&abtest=_AB-LR854-LR895-PR854-PV895_2351
 http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/19980338125.html
 I wouldn't know where to start there though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I think BloodyPenguin and/or his wife may be Chinese speaker.
  
 Wonder why you didn't get along with the E100A. Looks like the E100A (with the in-line control) generally gets worse reviews than E100?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> Suvov S20 V-sig for you..


 

 Love the Suvov thanks to @golov17, however I do not quite hear them as V Shaped, at best maybe U Shaped. 
  
 The sub-bass is one of my favorite of all the headphones/earphones/earbuds I own.  Also, I find the mids to be extremely musical and present.  The highs have enough detail, but do roll off a bit early, creating a wonderful, fun, non-fatiguing sound signature.
  
 I REALLY need to do a full review of the S10/S20 soon.  Unfortunately I am back up with a bunch of other models.  I have to make time for the Suvov.
  
 ..


----------



## BloodyPenguin

chrisjackson said:


> I wouldn't know where to start there though
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Neither of us speak Chinese unfortunately (wish I could).  My wife is from Guatemala, so she does speak fluent Spanish of course.
  
 --


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> Love the Suvov thanks to @golov17
> , however I do not quite hear them as V Shaped, at best maybe U Shaped.
> 
> The sub-bass is one of my favorite of all the headphones/earphones/earbuds I own.  Also, I find the mids to be extremely musical and present.  The highs have enough detail, but do roll off a bit early, creating a wonderful, fun, non-fatiguing sound signature.
> ...


Well, yes, then Jiushao e300 V-sig, thanks for corrected


----------



## chrisjackson

bloodypenguin said:


> Neither of us speak Chinese unfortunately (wish I could).  My wife is from Guatemala, so she does speak fluent Spanish of course.
> 
> --


 

 Oh sorry, got the idea into my little brain that your success at negotiating those Chinese sites meant you could read it. Guess you have some other ingenuity at work there. Aliexpress for ordering the VE Monks even with all the English and correct currency was challenge enough for me


----------



## BloodyPenguin

chrisjackson said:


> Oh sorry, got the idea into my little brain that your success at negotiating those Chinese sites meant you could read it. Guess you have some other ingenuity at work there. Aliexpress for ordering the VE Monks even with all the English and correct currency was challenge enough for me


 

 No need to be sorry.  I just use Google Translate and a lot of guessing on those Chinese sites.
  
 ..


----------



## chrisjackson

bloodypenguin said:


> No need to be sorry.  I just use Google Translate and a lot of guessing on those Chinese sites.
> 
> ..


 

 Aha! Persistence 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Mind you even with Google translate and guessing reckon I'd still be left wondering what this is all about 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 http://tw.taobao.com/item/521902725397.htm?spm=a1z3o.7695283.0.0.Bqj6Mh


----------



## golov17




----------



## chrisjackson

golov17 said:


>


 






 Well yes, I suppose that's the important bit...
  
 Good to see that in all the Venture Electronics excitement, other tastes/ear shapes are being catered for. Unlike Chompy above for my fit I need to cut a bit of bass and boost the mids to get where I want to with the Monks. Happy to do that to take advantage of its qualities.


----------



## golov17

This thread for all buds


----------



## shankar

chrisjackson said:


> Welcome shankar.
> 
> Suvov S10 vs S20 (hope  golov17 doesn't mind) :
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up-update-april-25th-2015/930#post_11614153
> ...


 
 Thanks @chrisjackson! You have answered all my questions. With E100A, I could never get a good fit and seal. So, they sounded worse than my Apple Earpods. Looking at the negative reviews, I wonder if they also had hardware issues in the later models of E100 and E100A. So, I figured that a more traditional earbud design would probably be better for me. Again, with VE Monk, I think they are bigger sized earbuds. So, not sure how that is going to work for me. So, I am considering trying out something smaller like the BEB 328RM also.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

chrisjackson said:


> Aha! Persistence
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What that shop means that the seller is sort of like an agent who helps individual to shop for overseas (American and Japanese) items. In this case, the Creatives' from the description of the seller are bought directly from Amazon Japan.


----------



## shankar

I have begun the long drawn process of buying the Suvov S20 from MisterTao. So, that's two earbuds (VE Monk and Suvov S20) scheduled to arrive over the next 2-3 weeks hopefully


----------



## BloodyPenguin

shankar said:


> I have begun the long drawn process of buying the Suvov S20 from MisterTao. So, that's two earbuds (VE Monk and Suvov S20) scheduled to arrive over the next 2-3 weeks hopefully


 
 Then sometimes, they get lost in the mail.  Then you have to start the whole process over.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 --


----------



## shankar

bloodypenguin said:


> Then sometimes, they get lost in the mail.  Then you have to start the whole process over.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 hehehe...the things we do to get a good earbud


----------



## jwong

FYI, for anyone interested, the Blue Ever Blue 328R are $7.38 on Amazon right now. The picture for the item is wrong, but I just got them today and the proper 328R Black came in the mail.


----------



## golov17

jwong said:


> FYI, for anyone interested, the Blue Ever Blue 328R are $7.38 on Amazon right now. The picture for the item is wrong, but I just got them today and the proper 328R Black came in the mail.





Spoiler


----------



## jwong

Yep, it was the second one there, the one direct from Amazon with the incorrect white in-ear pictured.


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, decided to pick up the BEB 328r on Amazon, as of my purchasing, there's 4 left in stock by the seller.  The 328r is a prime add-on item, but it gave me excuse to pick up a new headphone stand for my HD700 that'll work nicely with my desk.


----------



## chrisjackson

Folks, don't sell those old buds; breathe new life into them.
  
 Was its signature too mid-centric for you or not enough? No worries the excentric® signature was designed for you.
  
 At last one simple technique to solve all those budbears in one :
  
 Amping - No need to let ohms and mWs and dBs get you in a tangle
  
 Cable noise - check
  
 Leakage - No worries. The adjacent seat on public transport is always vacant.
  
 Isolation - yep, plenty (see leakage).
  
 Excellent for anaerobic sports activities, I give you :
  
  

  
 Best wishes to all over festive season


----------



## golov17

chrisjackson said:


> Folks, don't sell those old buds; breathe new life into them.
> 
> Was its signature too mid-centric for you or not enough? No worries the excentric® signature was designed for you.
> 
> ...


----------



## golov17

For users with small ears: not bad for money


Spoiler






link


----------



## shankar

Got my VE Monks today. Ordered from AE and just took 6 days via ePacket. Lee is doing some awesome work getting these sent out. Kudos!
  
 My first impressions here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/783669/venture-electronics-ve-monk-a-5-earbud-that-seriously-deserves-a-place-here/945#post_12189597


----------



## Saoshyant

My Senn MX 985 arrived just in time for Christmas, and I must admit the detail with my gen 1 Fiio X5 is lovely! I will give it a try with the Kogan later.... Man that piano just sounds articulate.


----------



## airomjosh

for those who are waiting for the release of Ostry KC08, they are now sold in taobao for 599 yuan...


----------



## golov17

airomjosh said:


> for those who are waiting for the release of Ostry KC08, they are now sold in taobao for 599 yuan...


----------



## yacobx

airomjosh said:


> for those who are waiting for the release of Ostry KC08, they are now sold in taobao for 599 yuan...




Interesting


----------



## chompy

Anybody has more info about Ostry KC08 sound signature? Is it true that they lack bass?


----------



## golov17

chompy said:


> Anybody has more info about Ostry KC08 sound signature? Is it true that they lack bass?


search in erji.net


----------



## jant71

Man why couldn't they release the KC08A at the same time?? We want more bass, LOL!! Just joking(I know of no such thing as a KC08A)


----------



## golov17

jant71 said:


> Man why couldn't they release the KC08A at the same time?? We want more bass, LOL!! Just joking(I know of no such thing as a KC08A):evil:


maybe later


----------



## chompy

golov17 said:


> search in erji.net


 
  
 I've only found this thread where they seem to compare them to SR225, Q701, K601 and HD598... but that's the only thing I've understood using google translator 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
http://erji.net/read.php?tid=1874126&keyword=kc08


----------



## ClieOS

airomjosh said:


> for those who are waiting for the release of Ostry KC08, they are now sold in taobao for 599 yuan...


 
  
 They are *pre-*sold on taobao for RMB599, which means the actual stock has not arrived yet... and as per taoabo policy, you can't pre-order an item unless you have a debit or credit card issued in China. Of course you can go through a buying agent, but they won't have it either since the stock has not arrived. However, I do have good info that the stock will arrive next week.
  
 The few impression you guys saw on Chinese forum are from the samples Ostry sent out.


----------



## Danneq

So now I've jumped on the VE bandwagon with a pair of Zen 2.0 (with a pair of bonus Monks included). Also recently bought a pair of Hifiman ES100 and a pair of Astrotec Lyra.

The Zens are definitely up there with Blox TM7 and Sennheiser MX980. However the high impedance is a bit annoying and now I'm looking for a decent portable headphone amp. My old Fiio E11 is okay, but I've been considering the Cayin C5 or something similar for under $200...

Anyway, Hifiman ES100 is a definite step down from VE Zen. They are okay if you can find a pair for between $40-50.

Soundwise, I actually liked Astrotec Lyra the best. They have quite an analytic sound with very dry mids. Not at all like the almost subwoofer like bass as on the Zens. But the dry mids and somewhat cold presentation of the Lyras makes for a very expansive soundstage, and that is something that I like. The soundstage isn't necessarily bigger than on the Zens, but the overall sound signature put more focus on upper mids and treble (without being sibilant). However, fit is pretty awful, and I can understand that Astrotec now only makes the earhook version Lyra6.

I want to try the Celsus Gramo One, but the price is just too high for me at the moment.

My conclusion is that the Zen 2.0 are the best earbuds currently sold, even if I prefer the leaner sound signature of the Astrotec Lyra...


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> So now I've jumped on the VE bandwagon with a pair of Zen 2.0 (with a pair of bonus Monks included). Also recently bought a pair of Hifiman ES100 and a pair of Astrotec Lyra.
> 
> The Zens are definitely up there with Blox TM7 and Sennheiser MX980. However the high impedance is a bit annoying and now I'm looking for a decent portable headphone amp. My old Fiio E11 is okay, but I've been considering the Cayin C5 or something similar for under $200...
> 
> ...


http://www.head-fi.org/t/620775/the-sub-200-portable-amps-shootout-13-11-amps-compared


----------



## ClieOS

danneq said:


> ...
> 
> Soundwise, I actually liked Astrotec Lyra the best. They have quite an analytic sound with very dry mids. Not at all like the almost subwoofer like bass as on the Zens. But the dry mids and somewhat cold presentation of the Lyras makes for a very expansive soundstage, and that is something that I like. The soundstage isn't necessarily bigger than on the Zens, but the overall sound signature put more focus on upper mids and treble (without being sibilant). However, fit is pretty awful, and I can understand that Astrotec now only makes the earhook version Lyra6.


 
  
 Judging from your impression, I might actually like the Lyra as well.


----------



## Danneq

clieos said:


> Judging from your impression, I might actually like the Lyra as well.




If you can find a pair of Lyra6 with earhooks for a decent price, you should really give them a chance!

I forgot to mention the Monks. I'll have to listen to them more, but from listening to them just a few minutes they are very close to or even beat my pair of Blox BE3. Amazing for a pair of $5 earbuds!


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/620775/the-sub-200-portable-amps-shootout-13-11-amps-compared




Thanks for the tip!

The C&C BH2 looks nice. But it appears to be difficult to find nowadays. I found some places that sell it, though...


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> Thanks for the tip!
> 
> The C&C BH2 looks nice. But it appears to be difficult to find nowadays. I found some places that sell it, though...


http://www.head-fi.org/t/780539/ve-runabout-impressions-thread


----------



## golov17

New models from AT


----------



## chompy

golov17 said:


> New models from AT


 
  
 Those (Iron Man) ATH-C999 if are true deep bass sounding look promising... Do you know how they really sound?


----------



## golov17

http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=a1z5f.7632060.0.0&id=524451337037


----------



## golov17

http://m.genk.vn/do-choi-so/can-canh-bo-ba-tai-nghe-earbud-nong-bong-tay-cua-audio-technica-ath-c555-ath-c777-va-ath-c999-20151117120859022.chn


----------



## chompy

golov17 said:


> http://m.genk.vn/do-choi-so/can-canh-bo-ba-tai-nghe-earbud-nong-bong-tay-cua-audio-technica-ath-c555-ath-c777-va-ath-c999-20151117120859022.chn


 
  
 Thanks, will wait for their review if nobody test them before.
  
_Edit: I see in ClieOS profile that he already has a pair of ATH-C999 so maybe he can tell us how they sound_


----------



## Danneq

clieos said:


> Judging from your impression, I might actually like the Lyra as well.


 


 I found a review of the Astrotec Lyra 6, the version with earhooks, and the reviewer writes that on the Lyra 6
  


> a filter and a driver tuning was changed (with slightly enhanced bass)


 
  
http://forum.xda-developers.com/general/accessories/review-astrotec-lyra-6-earbuds-lots-pics-t2968184
  

 The Lyra has been discontinued and only the Lyra 6 is sold now...


----------



## ClieOS

chompy said:


> Thanks, will wait for their review if nobody test them before.
> 
> _Edit: I see in ClieOS profile that he already has a pair of *ATH-C999 *so maybe he can tell us how they sound_


 
  
 It looks absolutely nice for the price (and a bonus if you like Iron Man), but as far as SQ goes, I'll just skip this one.
  


danneq said:


> I found a review of the Astrotec Lyra 6, the version with earhooks, and the reviewer writes that on the Lyra 6
> 
> 
> http://forum.xda-developers.com/general/accessories/review-astrotec-lyra-6-earbuds-lots-pics-t2968184
> ...


 
  
 Actually Lyra can be easily found on Taobao, for the same price as Lyra 6 no less. Though it is the high asking price that has stopped me from getting either one. In fact, I just spent the same amount of money on both KC08 and an new 400ohm earbud and should have them by next week.


----------



## Danneq

clieos said:


> Actually Lyra can be easily found on Taobao, for the same price as Lyra 6 no less. Though it is the high asking price that has stopped me from getting either one. In fact, I just spent the same amount of money on both KC08 and an new 400ohm earbud and should have them by next week.


 

 I first bought a pair of Lyra on Ebay from a Chinese seller, but he refunded the money since the Lyra was discontinued and they couldn't get a pair. I have seen it on Aliexpress and I asked one seller if they still have it, but got a reply saying that it was discontinued. As I understand it, I can't buy from Taobao since I don't have a Chinese credit or debit card.

 I ended up buying a used pair of Lyra from Ebay. The cable was modified with a 2.5 mm balanced jack that was connected to an extension cable with an RSA/ALO connection. It might even be the pair in this review:
http://www.inearspace.co.uk/inearspace/Astrotec_Lyra_Earbud_Review.html
  
 It has got the same exact jack and everything.

 To use it, I had to buy a 2.5 mm balanced -> 3.5 mm adapter.

 Having first the jack from the earbuds, then the adapter and lastly the jack of the 3.5 mm extension cable makes the cable quite heavy, so I have to use a clip to fasten the cable to my clothes.

 If I can find a pair of Lyra with ordinary cable and 3.5 mm jack in a good condition I'll buy that one instead and sell my pair to someone with a DAP (Astell & Kern, probably)  with balanced RSA/ALO input...

 By the way, what earbud is it that is 400ohm!?!?!


----------



## tukangketik

clieos said:


> an new 400ohm earbud and should have them by next week.



Finally, ClieOS.. Can't wait for your impression. I was also waiting for this. 
Also Danneq, glad you are active in here again. Cheers


----------



## chompy

clieos said:


> It looks absolutely nice for the price (and a bonus if you like Iron Man), but as far as SQ goes, I'll just skip this one.
> 
> 
> Actually Lyra can be easily found on Taobao, for the same price as Lyra 6 no less. Though it is the high asking price that has stopped me from getting either one. In fact, I just spent the same amount of money on both KC08 and an new 400ohm earbud and should have them by next week.




Thanks for your impressions about ath-c999, what's wrong with their sound? (I've found my sound tastes differ from the majority, as I prefer extremely V shaped profiles with lots of bass, and in example, VE Monks are not for me). 

It will be very nice to also read your KC08 impressions when you get them. 

Greetings


----------



## ClieOS

danneq said:


> ... As I understand it, I can't buy from Taobao since I don't have a Chinese credit or debit card.
> 
> ...
> By the way, what earbud is it that is 400ohm!?!?!


 
  
 Oh no, you don't need Chinese credit or debit card to buy things on Taobao, that only applies to pre-order or service type items. If you are buying regular items, any Visa or Master card will do and Taobao will even handle the forwarding, but unfortunately this is limited to a few nations only. So for the rest of the world, paying a buying agent to buy things from Taobao is still the way to go.
  
 About the new 400ohm earbud - according to unofficial story, the guy (whom is a well known DIY'er / small scale manufacturer) that make this earbud is the same guy who once OEM'ed for VE. But now he is partnering with a new company and the 400ohm earbud will be the first product they release together.
  
 Here it is: http://world.taobao.com/item/525116914319.htm


----------



## ClieOS

chompy said:


> Thanks for your impressions about ath-c999, what's wrong with their sound? (I've found my sound tastes differ from the majority, as I prefer extremely V shaped profiles with lots of bass, and in example, VE Monks are not for me).
> 
> It will be very nice to also read your KC08 impressions when you get them.
> 
> Greetings


 
  
 Nothing wrong with its sound except that it really isn't particularly good in anyway.


----------



## golov17




----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


>


 
  
 You sure are quick


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, now that I'm finally getting a chance to sit down and try out my Christmas/Birthday present, I figure nothing would be better than one of my 3 favorite albums to listen to.  Right now I'm relaxing in my computer chair listening to my new Senn MX985 with a Gen 1 Fiio X5 playing Tom Petty's Wildflowers.  Beautiful album, and the earbuds certainly do it justice...  I have to admit I'm a true believer in Sennheiser's ability to make an amazing product.  My favorite full size, IEM and earbud are now all Sennheisers.  I swear, I could just recline and take a nap like this.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> You sure are quick


no  only pics


----------



## golov17




----------



## ClieOS

saoshyant said:


> Well, now that I'm finally getting a chance to sit down and try out my Christmas/Birthday present, I figure nothing would be better than one of my 3 favorite albums to listen to.  Right now I'm relaxing in my computer chair listening to my new* Senn MX985 with a Gen 1 Fiio X5 *playing Tom Petty's Wildflowers.  Beautiful album, and the earbuds certainly do it justice...  I have to admit I'm a true believer in Sennheiser's ability to make an amazing product.  My favorite full size, IEM and earbud are now all Sennheisers.  I swear, I could just recline and take a nap like this.


 
  
 That's a great pairing indeed.


----------



## chompy

golov17 said:


>


 
  
 Do you have them? I don't see any info on Beyderdynamic site about them... When you have time please share your findings about them.


----------



## yacobx

golov17 said:


> no  only pics




How'd they compare to the zen?


----------



## Saoshyant

Still using the Fiio X5 as source, the MX985 proves to me at least it's greatest strength is with softer albums like Beck's Sea Changes or Peter Gabriel's OK.  This is by no means to imply it should only be relegated towards similar music.  Listening to Kenna's New Sacred Cow, it handled the album beautifully.  While I would have appreciated a little more quantity of bass, the qu ality was certainly there with enough quantity to accomplish a smile on my fairly unemotive face, so hopefully that conveys my appreciation for the earbuds so far.  Once I finish with Beck's album, I think I shall have to try it with something decidedly bass oriented just to see how it handles it.


----------



## golov17

About Shozy Cygnus..


----------



## golov17

And for those who do not like the brightness and sibilance, good without foams TUNA CM-6 for $7


----------



## golov17

Happy New Year for all earbuds lovers! And more new good buds


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Another year to enjoy earbuds!  (Dasetn Earbuds I do not Use Anymore Pictured)  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  

  
 ..


----------



## Danneq

bloodypenguin said:


> Another year to enjoy earbuds!  (Dasetn Earbuds I do not Use Anymore Pictured)
> ..





Dasetn MC5! (I don't use my pair anymore either)

Happy new earbud year!


----------



## chompy

@ClieOS
  
 I see in your profile that you also have the Beyerdynamic DP100... Could you please make a quick sound comparation to VE Monks and Edifier H180/H185 (specially regarding their bass and treble quantity and quality)?
  
 Thanks


----------



## ClieOS

chompy said:


> @ClieOS
> 
> I see in your profile that you also have the Beyerdynamic DP100... Could you please make a quick sound comparation to VE Monks and Edifier H180/H185 (specially regarding their bass and treble quantity and quality)?
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 DP100 is a solid earbud - warm sounding with a good vocal and doesn't have any particular strength or weakness. You can think of it as Monk with a slightly thicker mid range. Both Edifier will offer better upper extension and overall an more exciting sound, particularly H185 with a more V-shaped sound. Overall, I'll probably rate Edifier higher.


----------



## chompy

clieos said:


> DP100 is a solid earbud - warm sounding with a good vocal and doesn't have any particular strength or weakness. You can think of it as Monk with a slightly thicker mid range. Both Edifier will offer better upper extension and overall an more exciting sound, particularly H185 with a more V-shaped sound. Overall, I'll probably rate Edifier higher.


 
  
 Lots of thanks for your detailed report... Then one option less for me, it seems I'll have to jump to the IEM wagon if I want something more "radical" than H185 because I love their highs, but their bass isn't enough for me, maybe due to fit problems, as I just tried for the first time IEMs yestarday (a pair of Xiaomi Piston 3 and Xiaomi Hybrid, which I prefer over piston 3) and they have plenty of bass but I find them very congested with few highs for my taste.
  
 Happy New Year!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Happy New Year EVERYONE!
  
 So Mr Golov, Judging by the review of the Shozy Cygnus screen shots you posted, is it safe to say that the Zen 2.0 has finally been dethroned by the Cygnus?


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Happy New Year EVERYONE!
> 
> So Mr Golov, Judging by the review of the Shozy Cygnus screen shots you posted, is it safe to say that the Zen 2.0 has finally been dethroned by the Cygnus?


 I have not tried it


----------



## golov17

Low price Edifier h101


----------



## JacobJones

Thanks for that Golov, I like the sound of the H180 so I'll give this a go.


----------



## golov17

jacobjones said:


> Thanks for that Golov, I like the sound of the H180 so I'll give this a go.


also can try h185


----------



## golov17

I was asked to compare the BOE vs Blox BE3, the main difference in the lighter sound of BOE, as if the equalizer lifted the edge of the frequency band, BE3 sounds more detached, BOE closer, the sound quality they are comparable, IMHO


----------



## ballog

Thanks Golov for your "BOE vs Blox BE3" clear & precise impression - very helpful as always. I wonder if the BOE from Earbuds Thailand is known around on Head-Fi?


----------



## golov17

ballog said:


> Thanks Golov for your "BOE vs Blox BE3" clear & precise impression - very helpful as always. I wonder if the BOE from Earbuds Thailand is known around on Head-Fi?


LE, sorry


----------



## BloodyPenguin

ballog said:


> Thanks Golov for your "BOE vs Blox BE3" clear & precise impression - very helpful as always. I wonder if the BOE from Earbuds Thailand is known around on Head-Fi?


 
  
 Well, earbuds in general and not that big on Head-Fi, though I have noticed they are getting more popular over the years.
  
  
 As for the BOE, I love hearing @golov17 impressions.  I too will be receiving a pair very soon, at which point I will most likely will be doing a full review of it.
  
 --


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> Well, earbuds in general and not that big on Head-Fi, though I have noticed they are getting more popular over the years.
> 
> 
> As for the BOE, I love hearing @golov17
> ...


BOE good buds, but long time waiting after buying


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> BOE good buds, but long time waiting after buying


 
 Luckily mine are already in the United States, should be to my house any day now.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 My wait was because they were out of stock, but once they were in stock it is only taking a few weeks to get to me.
  
 ..


----------



## ballog

bloodypenguin said:


> Luckily mine are already in the United States, should be to my house any day now.
> 
> My wait was because they were out of stock, but once they were in stock it is only taking a few weeks to get to me.
> 
> ..



Thanks for your input. Would love to read your review. I'm looking for a step up to Blox BE3 but not at VE Zen price point. I would appreciate to find something under USD100.


----------



## golov17

ballog said:


> Thanks for your input. Would love to read your review. I'm looking for a step up to Blox BE3 but not at VE Zen price point. I would appreciate to find something under USD100.


Maybe Shozy Cygnus?


----------



## ballog

golov17 said:


> Maybe Shozy Cygnus?



How much is the Cygnus Golov?


----------



## golov17

ballog said:


> How much is the Cygnus Golov?


----------



## golov17

Poor sound quality, I do not recommend


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> Poor sound quality, I do not recommend


 
  
 I've tried a few VJJB products, all have sounded bad.  Though I have read that the VJJB V1 is not that awful.  
  
 --


----------



## golov17

I've bought them for a long time, but thought maybe defective caught, decided to buy again, the result is the same.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> I've bought them for a long time, but thought maybe defective caught, decided to buy again, the result is the same.


 
  
 Don't buy anymore.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 --


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> Don't buy anymore.
> 
> --


Haha, for donor organs good


----------



## ClieOS

Look at what the cat dragged in...
  



  
 ...and guess who received two ToTL earbuds today? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The white one is the 400 ohm earbud from SeaHF and its partner (my unofficial translated name is 'Headphone Union') - really good, but a bit hard to drive and I am not sure even my FiiO X7 is doing it justice. Will need to listen to it on a desktop amp to really tell how good it will be. But I'll give it a bit burn-in before any serious listening.
  
 The main course is of course the Ostry KC08 - very impressive on first listen and if you haven't done so - order yourself a pair immediately!!! The overall presentation is slightly on the leaner, cleaner side but I'll still consider to be overall balanced. Treble extension is very refined - crisp, detailed, but not bright or hash. Mid and bass range are almost neutral in quantity, and soundstage is excellent. I think I won't be too far off to describe the KC08 as a pair of Etymotic ER4P with big soudnstage.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ClieOS Those Ostrys look very interesting. VE Monk has made me very interested in ear buds, so the KC08 are definitely on my radar. How is the build quality?


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> Look at what the cat dragged in...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cool, but where Cygnus?


----------



## ClieOS

b9scrambler said:


> @ClieOS Those Ostrys look very interesting. VE Monk has made me very interested in ear buds, so the KC08 are definitely on my radar. How is the build quality?


 
  
 Best build quality I ever seen on any Chinese earbuds. The only other earbuds that I'll consider to be equal in build quality will be the Sennheiser MX985, and that's saying a lot for Ostry.


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> Cool, but where Cygnus?


 
  
 Cygnus is almost the same price as KC08, and I just don't have enough confidence with Shozy to pay that kind of price. I do own a pair of Shozy dual dynamic IEM and it is just okay.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> Cygnus is almost the same price as KC08, and I just don't have enough confidence with Shozy to pay that kind of price. I do own a pair of Shozy dual dynamic IEM and it is just okay.


OK, you have Zen2.0?


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> OK, you have Zen2.0?


 
  
 Still in burn-in, haven't really made up my mind about it yet.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> Still in burn-in, haven't really made up my mind about it yet.


Nice, more works..


----------



## tukangketik

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


clieos said:


> Look at what the cat dragged in...
> 
> 
> 
> ...





  

 I got my 400 ohm 3 days ago. But it comes in black. It is written 400 9u on the sticker. But I am pretty sure it is different compared to the white version.



  

 Confirm it is harder to drive than my previous seaHF 300 ohm. And it is surely a step up, more detail and edgy. Can not compare it with my Zen as it is still on loan after 3 months. 
 I also bought the seahf 150 ohm black version, it is also very good. 
 And now there is KC08. My wallet is not going to like it if you make it to TOTL there, ClieOS.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I've had my eye on *seahf* for a while now.  Very curious about impressions of them.
  
  
 --


----------



## chompy

clieos said:


> The main course is of course the Ostry KC08 - very impressive on first listen and if you haven't done so - order yourself a pair immediately!!! The overall presentation is slightly on the leaner, cleaner side but I'll still consider to be overall balanced. Treble extension is very refined - crisp, detailed, but not bright or hash. Mid and bass range are almost neutral in quantity, and soundstage is excellent. I think I won't be too far off to describe the KC08 as a pair of Etymotic ER4P with big soudnstage.




Thanks for your first impressions, how big are they and are they difficult to fit?

When you say that bass and mids are almost neutral, are they up or down from neutrality?


----------



## ClieOS

chompy said:


> Thanks for your first impressions, how big are they and are they difficult to fit?
> 
> When you say that bass and mids are almost neutral, are they up or down from neutrality?


 
  
 They are no difficult to fit at all, but then again, I seldom run into fit problem on earbuds so I am not the best judge on that.
  
 I'll say it is right about neutral. It is earbuds so slight change in fit can give or take away a bit of body and depth and so it is hard to say precisely.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> They are no difficult to fit at all, but then again, I seldom run into fit problem on earbuds so I am not the best judge on that.
> 
> I'll say it is right about neutral. It is earbuds so slight change in fit can give or take away a bit of body and depth and so it is hard to say precisely.


similar with AKG's signature?


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> similar with AKG's signature?


 
  
 Not really. All the AKG earbuds I have heard are on the warmer side of things. The KC08 is very obviously on the colder side of things.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> Not really. All the AKG earbuds I have heard are on the warmer side of things. The KC08 is very obviously on the colder side of things.


 Thanks


----------



## ballog

clieos said:


> Not really. All the AKG earbuds I have heard are on the warmer side of things. The KC08 is very obviously on the colder side of things.



Thanks Clieos for your impressions. How much does the KC08 cost and where can it be purchased? Does it compare favorably with the Zen 2.0? The build quality sure looks impressive and the design is a welcome change to the ubiquitous earbud shell.


----------



## waynes world

clieos said:


> Still in burn-in, haven't really made up my mind about it yet.


 
  
 Very interested in your comparison of them (Zen 2.0's, naked of course) with the KC08's! Thanks in advance.


----------



## golov17

waynes world said:


> Very interested in your comparison of them (Zen 2.0's, naked of course) with the KC08's! Thanks in advance.


not really, vs zen1.0, IMHO


----------



## waynes world

golov17 said:


> not really, vs zen1.0, IMHO


 
  
 Yeah, I'm interested in the comparison vs the 1.0's as well. I presume though (possibly incorrectly) that the 2.0's have a more similar signature with the kc08's than the 1.0's do?


----------



## golov17

Different signatures can be compared only in terms of price / quality and personal preferences, IMHO
Who likes salty, someone sweet..


----------



## chompy

Hello,
  
 If I'm not wrong, I've seen someone who used something similar to this from my old Sonys to attach over buds to improve bass, but I don't find the post with the name of the product and where find it... Could anybody please help me?


----------



## B9Scrambler

clieos said:


> Best build quality I ever seen on any Chinese earbuds. The only other earbuds that I'll consider to be equal in build quality will be the Sennheiser MX985, and that's saying a lot for Ostry.




Excellent news!


----------



## waynes world

golov17 said:


> Different signatures can be compared only in terms of price / quality and personal preferences, IMHO
> Who likes salty, someone sweet..


 
  
 So you prefer salty do you?


----------



## golov17

waynes world said:


> So you prefer salty do you? :wink_face:


si


----------



## ClieOS

ballog said:


> Thanks Clieos for your impressions. How much does the KC08 cost and where can it be purchased? Does it compare favorably with the Zen 2.0? The build quality sure looks impressive and the design is a welcome change to the ubiquitous earbud shell.


 
  
 RMB599, or roughly USD92 on today's rate - but that's Taobao price, I'll assume by the time retailer around the world picked it up, it will be around USB$100, if not more. Right now, you can only get one from Taobao, so a buying agent (and extra cost) is mostly the only way you can get one. Unless of course you are from either Taiwan, HK, NZ, AUS, MY or SG - then you can buy one from Taobao and they will forward it to you.
  


waynes world said:


> Very interested in your comparison of them (Zen 2.0's, naked of course) with the KC08's! Thanks in advance.


 
  


golov17 said:


> not really, vs zen1.0, IMHO


 
  
 Will do both, in due time of course. Personally I am still no sure about my feeling on Zen 2.0 - at first I don't think it is any better than Zen 1, but then I listened to it on the FiiO K5 (fed by X7) and it kind of changes my opinion about it. Right now I am giving it a full burn-in first, then I'll see if it is indeed better with desktop amp than portable source.
  


waynes world said:


> Yeah, I'm interested in the comparison vs the 1.0's as well. I presume though (possibly incorrectly) that the 2.0's have a more similar signature with the kc08's than the 1.0's do?


 
  
 Actually both Zen 1 and 2 has quite a different sound signature from each other, but they are still on the warm side. So they are definitely different from the KC08 more neutral and colder side of presentation.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Okay Guys, so here is the rundown, I am planning to save up for an "end game" earbud right now.


I have owned the SIDY KT100 and is loving every minute of it. I have asked for he opinion of Mr Golov and Mr Ceil before and both would agree that the VE Asura is the next way to go. However, the Asuras are no longer being produced as VE has the Asura 2.0 in the works which I heard from Mr Golov and read on VE's Official Taoba Store.


So I thought, why not save up and buy an end game ear bud. My list are


1. Zen 2.0

2. Ostry KC-08

3. SeaHF 320Ohm v2 (https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5-c.w4002-2612110495.35.jYEBOo&id=525608265905) 

4. Earphone Association "MX500" style 300Ohm (https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-1958545936.32.dSpwNE&id=524820529079)

5*. Earphone Association 400Ohm  (https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-1958545936.20.dSpwNE&id=525116914319)
6. Shozy Cygnus 



* A note on number 5, I was referred to by SeaHF to Earphone Association if I wanted to buy the 400Ohm version of earbud. SeaHF does not currently sell any 400Ohm Earbuds and thus recommended that I look at Earphone Association's 400Ohm.


So, which should I choose? The ZEN 2.0 is the most expensive, followed by the OSTRY.


----------



## golov17

http://s.aliexpress.com/yEbMJF3A
Very nice earset for low price, with good sound,recommended


----------



## shankar

golov17 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/yEbMJF3A
> Very nice earset for low price, with good sound,recommended


 
 Does this have controls (mic, volume stuff)?
  
 Update: Nevermind. I saw the mic/play/pause control in the pictures. Thanks for the reco! Placed an order for one


----------



## leobigfield

golov17 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/yEbMJF3A
> Very nice earset for low price, with good sound,recommended


 
  
 Better than the monks?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

No where near @golov17 collection, but here is my current inventory of earbuds:
  
 (I had a few more earbuds, but I ran out of room to put in the case.  I've also given away about 20 of them to friends/family).
  

  
  
  
 I have told myself that I do not need anymore than 12 earbuds at a time and I have a few more coming soon.
  
 So anyone interest, I will be putting a few up a few for sale.  My BEB (Blue Ever Blue) 328RM and Sunrise AS-Feeling II will soon be up on the classifies.  Both come with all accessories and original packaging.  Contact me if you are in the US and interested.
  
 --


----------



## golov17

leobigfield said:


> Better than the monks?


 Monk champion!


----------



## listen4joy

waiting for ClieOS review on the VE MONK and their place in rankings.


----------



## ozkan

Should I buy Edifier H180 if I already have Monk? What are the differences between them?


----------



## chompy

ozkan said:


> Should I buy Edifier H180 if I already have Monk? What are the differences between them?


 
  
 Most will tell that Monk is better, but I prefer Edifier H180 sound signature... Monks are to mid centric for my tastes. But H180's treble is quite rolled off so at the end of day I prefer Edifier H185 with some bass boost from my X3 II (I have small ears and it's difficult to get good bass from earbuds if they are not really small).


----------



## AudioNewbi3

audionewbi3 said:


> Okay Guys, so here is the rundown, I am planning to save up for an "end game" earbud right now.
> 
> 
> I have owned the SIDY KT100 and is loving every minute of it. I have asked for he opinion of Mr Golov and Mr Ceil before and both would agree that the VE Asura is the next way to go. However, the Asuras are no longer being produced as VE has the Asura 2.0 in the works which I heard from Mr Golov and read on VE's Official Taoba Store.
> ...


 
  
 Anyone? *sobs*


----------



## yacobx

audionewbi3 said:


> Anyone? *sobs*




I only have the zen 2.0 off this list. With the right dap and amp the zen' are king.


----------



## Danneq

Regarding "end game" earbuds, has anyone heard something from Blox? There has been little activity there the last few months. If Blox could improve on TM7 they would have one of the best earbud ever, including vintage Sony and Aiwa models. At first I felt that the VE Zen 2.0 fell short compared to the TM7, but after a while I started to appreciate its qualities. The TM7 has got more "shimmer" in the treble than the Zen 2.0 and therefore you can hear more microdetails in the treble. Bass hits a little bit deeper on the TM7 (I've used a Fiio E11 amp to power them). Overall I sort of see TM7 as an improved Sennheiser MX980, which can sound a bit congested during busy passages in songs.

Anyway, should we give up hope of ever seeing a new Blox flagship?


----------



## golov17

From what I know, the issue of new Blox postponed indefinitely, and now Woo makes a limited number of Blox M2C mk3


----------



## ballog

danneq said:


> Regarding "end game" earbuds, has anyone heard something from Blox? There has been little activity there the last few months. If Blox could improve on TM7 they would have one of the best earbud ever, including vintage Sony and Aiwa models. At first I felt that the VE Zen 2.0 fell short compared to the TM7, but after a while I started to appreciate its qualities. The TM7 has got more "shimmer" in the treble than the Zen 2.0 and therefore you can hear more microdetails in the treble. Bass hits a little bit deeper on the TM7 (I've used a Fiio E11 amp to power them). Overall I sort of see TM7 as an improved Sennheiser MX980, which can sound a bit congested during busy passages in songs.
> 
> Anyway, should we give up hope of ever seeing a new Blox flagship?


I've been really looking forward to hear from Blox too. I'm a big Blox fan after my MC2 & BE3. Personally the Blox BE3 sound suits me more than the Monk.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

BTW, selling a few earbuds to make room for some new:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/794041/earbuds-beb-328rm-sunrise-as-feeling-ii-mrice-earbell-e100-more
  
  
 Also, JUST received the Earbud Thailand Black Onyx Earbud or BOE a few minutes ago.  Looking forward to testing those out this weekend.
  
 ..


----------



## Saoshyant

@BloodyPenguin AndroidVageta has been looking for an e100 in the for sale section for a little bit


----------



## BloodyPenguin

saoshyant said:


> @BloodyPenguin AndroidVageta has been looking for an e100 in the for sale section for a little bit




Thank you for the heads up, I've already spoke with him. My E100 is still for sale.

..


----------



## Jcee

Anyone know if Dasetn is still around? Just noticed their site is down...


----------



## golov17

jcee said:


> Anyone know if Dasetn is still around? Just noticed their site is down...


 blown away Daseth..


----------



## shankar

bloodypenguin said:


> Then sometimes, they get lost in the mail.  Then you have to start the whole process over.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 This almost happened with my Suvov order. I chose Singpost as the carrier in MisterTao. I guess that was a mistake. The tracking info got stuck at "shipped to overseas" and I had no further info for more than 10 days. I was almost resigning myself to assuming it is lost. But, it just appeared on my mailbox yesterday. No update on the tracking in the website yet though


----------



## ballog

Are there any info, impression or review of Shozy Cygnus on Head-Fi? I've seen them at 89USD on Penonaudio.


----------



## yacobx

ballog said:


> Are there any info, impression or review of Shozy Cygnus on Head-Fi? I've seen them at 89USD on Penonaudio.


 
  I have heard the are more detailed then the zen but that is due to the fact that they are bright.... from my understanding is that the Zen is more enjoyable to listen to.


----------



## Frederick Wang

Sadly for Shozy Cygnus, the cable easily turns green when exposed to moisture... 
 (Original source of the picture is on the bottom right)


----------



## BloodyPenguin

frederick wang said:


> Sadly for Shozy Cygnus, the cable easily turns green when exposed to moisture...
> (Original source of the picture is on the bottom right)


 
 Thank you for the heads up on this.  I was interested in them.  Now, not so much.
  
  
 On another note, I have a few more earbuds coming, the Suvov M360 and the Cogoo DX550.  So in about a month I will report on how those sound.
  
 ..


----------



## Frederick Wang

audionewbi3 said:


> Okay Guys, so here is the rundown, I am planning to save up for an "end game" earbud right now.
> 
> 
> I have owned the SIDY KT100 and is loving every minute of it. I have asked for he opinion of Mr Golov and Mr Ceil before and both would agree that the VE Asura is the next way to go. However, the Asuras are no longer being produced as VE has the Asura 2.0 in the works which I heard from Mr Golov and read on VE's Official Taoba Store.
> ...


 
 Thanks for bringing those earbuds to my attention, I did some research on Chinese forums, the #3 #4 #5 are developed by the same team, #5 being the newest. From the very limited reviews, opinions seem to favor the #5, 400ohm version. 
  
 http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4209779979 (in Chinese)
  
 very oddly, some say that the new 300ohm version is harder to drive than the 400ohm version
  
 Anyway, I have ordered the 400ohm just now, will put up my impressions after I receive them, but my experience in describing earphones is very scanty, so, plz bear with me...


----------



## jant71

frederick wang said:


> Sadly for Shozy Cygnus, the cable easily turns green when exposed to moisture...
> (Original source of the picture is on the bottom right)


 

 That is cool! Nothing wrong with that. A natural process.




 Here in NY we admire the lovely green patina. Not sadly she turned green  Not we are no longer interested now that she turned green!
  
 To quote "Why do our earphone cable turn green" article...
  
 "Unlike other destructive oxidation, the patina acts as a protective layer. This is the reason as to why copper is considered as an important metal, as it is resistant to corrosion. The patina prevents further corrosion of the copper beneath the oxidized layer

 Whilst not necessarily being that attractive to the eye, oxidation of your earphone cable does not affect the sound of them. Note also that oxidation occurs regardless of the color of your cable, so even if the outer part of your cable is black, white, beige or any other color, the copper on the inside we still turn green, you just can’t see it!"


----------



## AudioNewbi3

frederick wang said:


> Thanks for bringing those earbuds to my attention, I did some research on Chinese forums, the #3 #4 #5 are developed by the same team, #5 being the newest. From the very limited reviews, opinions seem to favor the #5, 400ohm version.
> 
> http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4209779979 (in Chinese)
> 
> ...


 
 You are welcome mate. I have personally seen and read most of the baidu teiba myself.

 However, I have personally contacted "bug bro" and according to him, the 320ohm v2 （灵动2.0）is the newer version of the old 320ohm and "bug bro" has fixed the issue of the 320ohm being harder to drive than the 400ohms. Interestingly, he also mentioned that there are 2 versions of the 灵动2.0 due to the fact that he was provided with 2 different types of 320ohm drivers by the manufacturer. But rest assured, according to "bug bro", he has meticulously tuned both types of drivers  so that both of them come out having the same or very similar signature.

 Let me know how you like them 400ohms mate.

 Link for new 320ohm review
http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4197454026 


 Also Edit:
 After reading this Baidu, it seems that "bug bro" or 虫哥 is also the supplier for Ventura Electronics. There Zen 1.0 uses the same driver as the old 300Ohm of "bug bro"
  http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4300886915
http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4302205952


----------



## Whataudiophile

clieos said:


> PH-10 is a very well made earbud, consider that it only costs $10. It just lacks a bit of airiness and detail to make it to the next level.


 
 Do you own Monk,dude? If yes,where does it stand against these?


----------



## golov17

whataudiophile said:


> Do you own Monk,dude? If yes,where does it stand against these?


what is it? PH10?


----------



## Whataudiophile

golov17 said:


> what is it? PH10?


 
 No,dude.It is an earbud from Venture Electronics.It is just $5 and sounds amazing for the price.You can check out in the head-fi  top earbuds page.


----------



## Frederick Wang

Having VE monk for 30 hours, here are my impressions:
  
 Comfort-wise: I see posts stating how well they stay in their ears, but this is not the case for me, the rim of the earbuds is just too hard, my ears get sore after 10 minutes.
  
 I currently have a Flare audio r2a in my possession, so did some A-B of the two. To put it in a nutshell, Monk wins on Clarity, R2a wins on refinement. The immediate impression you get switching from r2a to Monk is like stepping out of a little bar into a grand concert hall, the sound stage is phenomenal, and Monk seems to able to pick up more details, but its shortcomings are equally apparent. Imaging is definitely inferior to r2a, instruments tend to be bigger than they actually are on the Monk, wile on r2a they are precise and stable. The gentle plucking of violins is so delicious on r2a, but not on the Monk.
  
 To my ears, Monk has some problem with "the reality of sound" , esp when it come to man's voice and ultra-treble. If they can improve on that, this earbud can be "it".
  
 That being said, I do enjoy music more on Monk than on r2a. I seriously recommend them to everyone. As for the ear-comfort problem, I will see a doctor about it later, no worries.


----------



## Frederick Wang

audionewbi3 said:


> You are welcome mate. I have personally seen and read most of the baidu teiba myself.
> 
> However, I have personally contacted "bug bro" and according to him, the 320ohm v2 （灵动2.0）is the newer version of the old 320ohm and "bug bro" has fixed the issue of the 320ohm being harder to drive than the 400ohms. Interestingly, he also mentioned that there are 2 versions of the 灵动2.0 due to the fact that he was provided with 2 different types of 320ohm drivers by the manufacturer. But rest assured, according to "bug bro", he has meticulously tuned both types of drivers  so that both of them come out having the same or very similar signature.
> 
> ...


 
 So you can speak Chinese? 
 I talked to "bug bro" myself, very nice guy. He says he will have something good to offer after the Chinese New year, I'm very much looking forward to it. 
 His partnership with VE ended last November, it seems there is a love/feud goes on, I don't want to probe into that. 
 But he did say that he was behind Monk and Zen 1.0, while he has nothing to do with Zen 2.0


----------



## AudioNewbi3

frederick wang said:


> So you can speak Chinese?
> I talked to "bug bro" myself, very nice guy. He says he will have something good to offer after the Chinese New year, I'm very much looking forward to it.
> His partnership with VE ended last November, it seems there is a love/feud goes on, I don't want to probe into that.
> But he did say that he was behind Monk and Zen 1.0, while he has nothing to do with Zen 2.0


 
 Hahaha yep, I speak Chinese, English, Malay, and Japanese (not that fluent). 

 Yeah "bug bro" is a very very nice guy. He is mentions that he only wants the best for his customer. He was also extremely humble and answered each of my question very very patiently. Do you know what will the new product be?

 I am planning to buy a pair of 灵动2.0 for myself as a birthday present. However, if the new offering from 虫哥 is going to be a brand new high impedance headphone, I may very well hold of my purchase.
  
 As for the the partnership with VE, It think that there was a fundamental difference in how 小刀 and 虫哥 does their business, thus leading to the dissolvement of the partnership.


----------



## Whataudiophile

frederick wang said:


> Having VE monk for 30 hours, here are my impressions:
> 
> Comfort-wise: I see posts stating how well they stay in their ears, but this is not the case for me, the rim of the earbuds is just too hard, my ears get sore after 10 minutes.
> 
> ...


 
 Monk is great for the price.The vocals definitely sounds fatter than normal. It takes the cake for its huge soundstage and warmish overall presentation.Monk doesn't hurt my ears at all.I own a couple of earphones but Monk is my favorite as it provides a non-fatiguing sound. For the price I paid,I gasped in astonishment when I heard it first.


----------



## Frederick Wang

audionewbi3 said:


> Do you know what will the new product be?


 
 Not specifically, but he said he has more than ten versions of 300ohm, and 4-5 versions of 400 ohm... 
 As we discussed the streamlining of products, he apologized (a very nice and very humble guy like you said!) for being otherwise engaged, that he cannot concentrate all his effort on earbuds for now, then he asked me to contact him again after the Lunar new year, when he will have the time to offer "something different". 
  
  
 Quote:


audionewbi3 said:


> I am planning to buy a pair of 灵动2.0 for myself as a birthday present. However, if the new offering from 虫哥 is going to be a brand new high impedance headphone, I may very well hold of my purchase.


 
  
 I believe in the audio world, good things are always "around the corner." One can never have the perfect timing to purchase the perfect earphone. So if the on-sale ones are already good, I wouldn't hold off my birthday if I were you


----------



## shankar

I tried to translate some of the chinese terms here using Google translate. I got these:
  
 灵动2.0 = Smart 2.0
 小刀 = Knife
 虫哥 - Insect Brother


----------



## AudioNewbi3

frederick wang said:


> I believe in the audio world, good things are always "around the corner." One can never have the perfect timing to purchase the perfect earphone. So if the on-sale ones are already good, I wouldn't hold off my birthday if I were you


 
 Hahaha, that is a very very good point indeed. Yup he also told me that there are 10 versions of the 320ohm and he himself is sometimes confused as to which to offer to the market. Good to know there are still people like him around. A very humble man indeed.
  
 Guess its the 2.0 then hahaha


----------



## Frederick Wang

whataudiophile said:


> Monk is great for the price.The vocals definitely sounds fatter than normal. It takes the cake for its huge soundstage and warmish overall presentation.Monk doesn't hurt my ears at all.I own a couple of earphones but Monk is my favorite as it provides a non-fatiguing sound. For the price I paid,I gasped in astonishment when I heard it first.


 
 Gasp in astonishment, same here. 
 The reason I didn't mention price to performance ratio is that, I'm in hunt for a perfect earphone, value is not top priority for me.
 If I can buy something suit my needs for 1000 dollar, I will be thrilled; if I can buy something suit my needs for 5 dollar, I will be thrilled, plus, I will be happy for saving money. but that plus happiness is not a goal for me.
  
 That's why I criticized Monk on its shortcomings, but, hey, I was comparing it to something 50 times its price, that's unfair in the first place and in the end I preferred Monk! 
  
 For the price I'd recommend it to everyone, regardless of the price, I'd highly recommend it, though it's by no means a perfect choice.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

shankar said:


> I tried to translate some of the chinese terms here using Google translate. I got these:
> 
> 灵动2.0 = Smart 2.0
> 小刀 = Knife
> 虫哥 - Insect Brother


 
  
 灵动2.0=Seahf 320ohm v2 (New Version)
 小刀 (xiao dao)    = direct translation “small knife" who according to the baidu thread, is one of the individual directly or indirectly affiliated, or the founder of ventura electronics, which bought you the monk and asura and zen. "Small Knife" is sort of a nickname or what we chinese like to refers to others by i.e. I am slim and my friends would call me "thin guy".
  虫哥 (chong ge)   = direct translation "bug bro" who was once in the past, the creator of the monk, asura(?), zen 1.0 for ventura electronics before their partnership went south. "Bug bro" used to be the distributor for VE.

 Hope this helps


----------



## shankar

audionewbi3 said:


> 灵动2.0=Seahf 320ohm v2 (New Version)
> 小刀 (xiao dao)    = direct translation “small knife" who according to the baidu thread, is one of the individual directly or indirectly affiliated, or the founder of ventura electronics, which bought you the monk and asura and zen. "Small Knife" is sort of a nickname or what we chinese like to refers to others by i.e. I am slim and my friends would call me "thin guy".
> 虫哥 (chong ge)   = direct translation "bug bro" who was once in the past, the creator of the monk, asura(?), zen 1.0 for ventura electronics before their partnership went south. "Bug bro" used to be the distributor for VE.
> 
> Hope this helps


 
 Thank you! That makes a lot of sense


----------



## Whataudiophile

frederick wang said:


> Gasp in astonishment, same here.
> The reason I didn't mention price to performance ratio is that, I'm in hunt for a perfect earphone, value is not top priority for me.
> If I can buy something suit my needs for 1000 dollar, I will be thrilled; if I can buy something suit my needs for 5 dollar, I will be thrilled, plus, I will be happy for saving money. but that plus happiness is not a goal for me.
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah,I concur. Whatever I am missing in Monk,I hope Zen 2.0 delivers.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

shankar said:


> Thank you! That makes a lot of sense


 
 Welcome mate~ Glad I was able to help you out.


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> 灵动2.0=Seahf 320ohm v2 (New Version)
> 小刀 (xiao dao)    = direct translation “small knife" who according to the baidu thread, is one of the individual directly or indirectly affiliated, or the founder of ventura electronics, which bought you the monk and asura and zen. "Small Knife" is sort of a nickname or what we chinese like to refers to others by i.e. I am slim and my friends would call me "thin guy".
> 虫哥 (chong ge)   = direct translation "bug bro" who was once in the past, the creator of the monk, asura(?), zen 1.0 for ventura electronics before their partnership went south. "Bug bro" used to be the distributor for VE.
> 
> Hope this helps


 
  
Okay, let's be more clear on this - 小刀 is @zhibli06 here in the forum  and he is the boss of VE. 虫哥 runs the factory that OEM'ed Zen 1.0 / Asura / Monk, but he also OEMs earbuds for other lesser known earbuds brand in China as well. He is sort of a well known manufacturer in the earbuds circle in China.
  
 I am not really sure you can call 虫哥 the distributor for VE. For example, VSONIC recently starts to OEM for Pioneer in China, but you certainly won't refer VSONIC as Pioneer's distributor.
  
*[EDIT] Okay, a bit of self-correction. I got it from good authority that 虫哥 isn't the actual OEM for VE. He was somewhat involved in the early VE models R&D, but not in any technical or manufacturing way. Can't really comment more on this but let just say something happened and they have to part their way very early on. *


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> Okay, let's be more clear on this - 小刀 is @zhibli06 here in the forum  and he is the boss of VE. 虫哥 runs the factory that OEM'ed Zen 1.0 / Asura / Monk, but he also OEMs earbuds for other lesser known earbuds brand in China as well. He is sort of a well known manufacturer in the earbuds circle in China.
> 
> I am not really sure you can call 虫哥 the distributor for VE. For example, VSONIC recently starts to OEM for Pioneer in China, but you certainly won't refer VSONIC as Pioneer's distributor.


yes


Spoiler


----------



## golov17

On our theme: HisoundAudio e351: after receiving them, I was not particularly impressed and connect them for a burn, after 100 hours, it was much better, and after 200 hours of very good. Small body, I recommend


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Okay, let's be more clear on this - 小刀 is @zhibli06 here in the forum  and he is the boss of VE. 虫哥 runs the factory that OEM'ed Zen 1.0 / Asura / Monk, but he also OEMs earbuds for other lesser known earbuds brand in China as well. He is sort of a well known manufacturer in the earbuds circle in China.
> 
> I am not really sure you can call 虫哥 the distributor for VE. For example, VSONIC recently starts to OEM for Pioneer in China, but you certainly won't refer VSONIC as Pioneer's distributor.


 
 Ah I see I see, then I must apologize for my mistake to zhibli06 as well as to other members for making this mistake. 

 I am sorry I have mislead the members of this forum based on my personal understanding. I hope no offense was taken. If there was any, once again I deeply apologize.


----------



## golov17

Let's discuss earbuds, not people..


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> Let's discuss earbuds, not people..


 
 Yes that is true. Once again, I am sorry.


----------



## ronako

There have been a lot of earbuds mentioned...is there a way we can summarize things into some kind of list or grouping to have a better list of what's currently available and how they rank possibly?


----------



## Danneq

If I can add another earbud recommendation, here's a nice wood earbud, the DK-PU: I bought the one with red cable, which actually is cooper colored. The blue one didn't look as nice...

They are described as being close to Sennheiser MX985. I'm comparing them to my pair of MX980, which should sound very close to MX985, and do not agree. Out of the box, the DK-PU wood earbuds sound a bit more "boxed in". They might open up more with burn in. Still, the soundstage is quite deep with perfectly okay instrument separation and detail. Definitely a keeper. The price I paid, $61.75 with shipping from China included, is okay. They are a step below earbuds such as Sennheiser MX980 or VE Zen 2.0, but better than stuff like Yuin PK2 which costs around the same price.

And the DK-PU wood earbuds are sweet looking....


----------



## golov17

$30 on Taobao


----------



## Danneq

Even better! Definitely recommended. Although you have to use a Taobao agent plus no English (why I don't bother with Taobao).


----------



## golov17

http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/45343859756.html


----------



## tukangketik

golov17 said:


> $30 on Taobao



It is actually 199+69rmb for copper cable (brown cable), Golov. For 199rmb you got the default cable (blue). I Have been aiming this for a while, seems like worth to buy if Danneq suggest to.


----------



## golov17

tukangketik said:


> It is actually 199+69rmb for copper cable (brown cable), Golov. For 199rmb you got the default cable (blue). I Have been aiming this for a while, seems like worth to buy if Danneq suggest to.


 This?


----------



## Danneq

tukangketik said:


> It is actually 199+69rmb for copper cable (brown cable), Golov. For 199rmb you got the default cable (blue). I Have been aiming this for a while, seems like worth to buy if Danneq suggest to.




On Aliexpress, the copper colored cable cost $9 more than the blue one, but was worth it. Anyway, soundwise, these earbuds are definitely worth $60 so if you can get them cheaper with shipping and everything included, it's a recommended purchase!


----------



## golov17

This cable soft or hard?


----------



## Danneq

The cable feels more hard than the "standard" cable (Blox and similar earbuds). It looks similar to what I have seen on pictures of the Shozy Cygnus.


----------



## golov17

http://s.aliexpress.com/InyuUFRn

From this seller


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/InyuUFRn
> 
> From this seller




That is the one I want! Anyone know how it sounds?

..


----------



## chompy

@Danneq:
  
 What sound signature do the DK-PU have?


----------



## Danneq

chompy said:


> @Danneq:
> 
> What sound signature do the DK-PU have?




Out of the box I got the impression that it is slightly "boxy", ie that the soundstage is not overly wide. That might improve with burn in. It does not feel as open as Sennheiser MX980, Blox TM7 or VE Zen 2.0. But the depth of the soundstage is quite good, together with instrument separation and detail. Bass is pretty strong and deep. This is feedback left by a Japanese buyer:


> I really expected this wood housing clone type of MX985, it seems like having the huge driver in. 1st impression is quite boomy and treble rolls out. Then after burned in, bass gets solid and tight with extended treble. This feeling is listening with headphone than earbud. If you are searching deep bass with headphone signature stuff, you can have it. Also I chose copper cable one, it looks like the vintage of 60's.




I agree with it although I don't think that bass is overly boomy...


----------



## Whataudiophile

danneq said:


> If I can add another earbud recommendation, here's a nice wood earbud, the DK-PU: I bought the one with red cable, which actually is cooper colored. The blue one didn't look as nice...
> 
> They are described as being close to Sennheiser MX985. I'm comparing them to my pair of MX980, which should sound very close to MX985, and do not agree. Out of the box, the DK-PU wood earbuds sound a bit more "boxed in". They might open up more with burn in. Still, the soundstage is quite deep with perfectly okay instrument separation and detail. Definitely a keeper. The price I paid, $61.75 with shipping from China included, is okay. They are a step below earbuds such as Sennheiser MX980 or VE Zen 2.0, but better than stuff like Yuin PK2 which costs around the same price.
> 
> And the DK-PU wood earbuds are sweet looking....


 
 Dude,can it compete with Monk? How would you rate both DK-PU and Monk on a scale of one to ten?


----------



## Danneq

whataudiophile said:


> Dude,can it compete with Monk? How would you rate both DK-PU and Monk on a scale of one to ten?




If you look at the price/performance ratio of the Monk and the DK-PU wood earbuds, the Monk beats the DK-PU. I haven't listened much to my pair of Monks that I got with my pair of Zen 2.0. 
I don't like putting numbers on them, but if you consider soundstage, the Monks beat the DK-PU. The Monks have a very open and expansive sound. The DK-PU feel more closed in with a more narrow soundstage (depth however is quite good). The lower end on the Monks feel like they are lacking a bit of punch and control. The DK-PU give me a more balanced sound from lows to highs while the Monks are more focused on mids and highs. If both cost the same, I would pick the DK-PU in a heartbeat. But that $5 for the Monks cannot be beaten.

I think that the Monks could easily be sold for the same as Blox BE3 and Yuin PK3, ie around $30.


----------



## Whataudiophile

danneq said:


> If you look at the price/performance ratio of the Monk and the DK-PU wood earbuds, the Monk beats the DK-PU. I haven't listened much to my pair of Monks that I got with my pair of Zen 2.0.
> I don't like putting numbers on them, but if you consider soundstage, the Monks beat the DK-PU. The Monks have a very open and expansive sound. The DK-PU feel more closed in with a more narrow soundstage (depth however is quite good). The lower end on the Monks feel like they are lacking a bit of punch and control. The DK-PU give me a more balanced sound from lows to highs while the Monks are more focused on mids and highs. If both cost the same, I would pick the DK-PU in a heartbeat. But that $5 for the Monks cannot be beaten.
> 
> I think that the Monks could easily be sold for the same as Blox BE3 and Yuin PK3, ie around $30.


 

 Do you think Zen 2.0 is worth the price given the Monk only costs $5? Is Zen's mids,highs and bass significantly better than the monk?


----------



## Danneq

If you are looking for bang for the buck, there's not much that beats the Monks. To me, the Zen 2.0 is on another level than the Monks. We are talking full size headphone sound from a pair of earbuds. Unfortunately, highs seem to be a bit tame on the Zen 2.0 and I prefer the highs on the Sennheiser MX980 or Blox TM7 (or even the DK-PU wood earbuds). But with good amplification, the Zen 2.0 still sound amazing.

I suppose that's the difference between expensive high end earbuds and cheaper ones - the expensive ones usually sound like full size headphones while the cheaper ones sound like earbuds.


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/InyuUFRn
> 
> From this seller




I forgot to thank Golov17 for this one. Bought it right away! I have been curious about the Tomahawk for a long time. I bought the DK-PU wood earbuds from the same Aliexpress seller, but he didn't have the Tomahawk 3 weeks ago. And here I wanted to go easy on buying new earbuds after buying the Celsus Gramo One a few days ago! $249 is a lot for a pair of earbuds, but I recently sold some headphones that I didn't use anymore (Sennheiser PX100, AKG K420 & K518DJ) plus some old FiiO headphone amps (E3 & E5) and a bunch of DVD & Blu ray movies and I got close to $220 in total for my old stuff. So I suppose I "only" paid around $30 in "new money" for the Gramo One.

Will share my impressions of both the Gramo One and the Tomahawks when they have arrived.


----------



## Whataudiophile

danneq said:


> If you are looking for bang for the buck, there's not much that beats the Monks. To me, the Zen 2.0 is on another level than the Monks. We are talking full size headphone sound from a pair of earbuds. Unfortunately, highs seem to be a bit tame on the Zen 2.0 and I prefer the highs on the Sennheiser MX980 or Blox TM7 (or even the DK-PU wood earbuds). But with good amplification, the Zen 2.0 still sound amazing.
> 
> I suppose that's the difference between expensive high end earbuds and cheaper ones - the expensive ones usually sound like full size headphones while the cheaper ones sound like earbuds.


 

 At least the highs are better than the Monk,right?


----------



## Danneq

whataudiophile said:


> At least the highs are better than the Monk,right?




More controlled, yes. To me, the highs on the Monks are almost borderline sibilant. Well, not really sibilant, but a bit bright. Too bad I never heard the Zen 1.0...


----------



## Whataudiophile

danneq said:


> More controlled, yes. To me, the highs on the Monks are almost borderline sibilant. Well, not really sibilant, but a bit bright. Too bad I never heard the Zen 1.0...


 

 Dude,any thoughts on Edifier h180? How does it perform compared to the Monk?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

danneq said:


> I forgot to thank Golov17 for this one. Bought it right away! I have been curious about the Tomahawk for a long time.





> Will share my impressions of both the Gramo One and the Tomahawks when they have arrived.


 
  
 Can't wait for both reviews!  Though I really want to know about the Tomahawks.
  
 ..


----------



## Danneq

whataudiophile said:


> Dude,any thoughts on Edifier h180? How does it perform compared to the Monk?




Haven't heard those...


----------



## Whataudiophile

danneq said:


> Haven't heard those...


 

 In one of the reviews on head-fi, Sharanbova compares it with Sony XB90 iem and says Edifier is better...and that really had me thinking....


----------



## yacobx

whataudiophile said:


> In one of the reviews on head-fi, Sharanbova compares it with Sony XB90 iem and says Edifier is better...and that really had me thinking....




I call bs. I have the xb90... There is no way that a earbud can have sub bass like that iem


----------



## Whataudiophile

yacobx said:


> I call bs. I have the xb90... There is no way that a earbud can have sub bass like that iem


 

 That's what even I thought while reading it. Dude,is it worth going for xb90 as we have so many options these days? I always wanted to buy them.


----------



## rymd

whataudiophile said:


> Dude,any thoughts on Edifier h180? How does it perform compared to the Monk?


 
 If you have the Monk, then skip the Edifier. The H180 is nowhere as good - boomy bass with poor extension - a combination of the worst qualities to have. The only earbud I've heard with worse bass extension is the Tingo TG-38s, which is pretty sad.
  
 And for your earlier question. both the Monk and Zen are worth their prices. Every part of the Zen is significantly better than that of the Monk, but the Zen 2 does have a different sound signature. The Zen 1 would be more like an upgraded Monk.


----------



## Whataudiophile

rymd said:


> If you have the Monk, then skip the Edifier. The H180 is nowhere as good - boomy bass with poor extension - a combination of the worst qualities to have. The only earbud I've heard with worse bass extension is the Tingo TG-38s, which is pretty sad.
> 
> And for your earlier question. both the Monk and Zen are worth their prices. Every part of the Zen is significantly better than that of the Monk, but the Zen 2 does have a different sound signature. The Zen 1 would be more like an upgraded Monk.


 

 Different sound signature?! Is it because it is a little bit on the brighter side?


----------



## rymd

whataudiophile said:


> Different sound signature?! Is it because it is a little bit on the brighter side?


 
 Look at Brooko's VE Zen reviews. I know there's a Monk vs. Zen 2 frequency response comparison somewhere, but maybe I couldn't find it. Here's his Zen 1 vs. Zen 2 comparison chart. Just replace the Zen 1 with Monk since their sound is so similar. Brighter yes, but I'm not really thinking about that as much as how the bass/mid-bass got a massive kick up.


----------



## Whataudiophile

rymd said:


> Look at Brooko's VE Zen reviews. I know there's a Monk vs. Zen 2 frequency response comparison somewhere, but maybe I couldn't find it. Here's his Zen 1 vs. Zen 2 comparison chart. Just replace the Zen 1 with Monk since their sound is so similar. Brighter yes, but I'm not really thinking about that as much as how the bass/mid-bass got a massive kick up.


 

 Thanks,dude.Now I got it clearly.


----------



## ozkan

whataudiophile said:


> Dude,any thoughts on Edifier h180? How does it perform compared to the Monk?




I'm also interested in this comparison as well. I love my Monk but I do wonder how Edifier H180 performs as my pc speakers are Edifier and I like them.


----------



## Whataudiophile

ozkan said:


> I'm also interested in this comparison as well. I love my Monk but I do wonder how Edifier H180 performs as my pc speakers are Edifier and I like them.


 
  
 Dude,check this out. This really had me thinking.....http://www.head-fi.org/products/edifier-hi-fi-stereo-headphone-h180-black/reviews/13194
 I also own Edifier 5.1 da5000 PC speakers. They sound good.


----------



## Saoshyant

I knew that Edifier sounded familiar!  Never had a chance to listen to them, but I have to admit they have very interesting designs.


----------



## yacobx

whataudiophile said:


> That's what even I thought while reading it. Dude,is it worth going for xb90 as we have so many options these days? I always wanted to buy them.




I really really really liked them when I was into bass music. I am very much so into acoustic and classical pieces now. Lol, it's the progression of most people here. Anywho, I might be willing to sell mine.


----------



## Raketen

yacobx said:


> I really really really liked them when I was into bass music. I am very much so into acoustic and classical pieces now. Lol, it's the progression of most people here. Anywho, I might be willing to sell mine.


 
 +1 for xb90ex... well, they're pretty good for those genres too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 though I have been using my FXH30s a lot more for some reason... <$100 headphones are crazy good these days. Still, I wish I lived in a place quiet enough I could use the Zen 2 and others on the go... really like that almost open-back sound quality earbuds seem to have & also not needing to jam them into my ears.


----------



## Whataudiophile

yacobx said:


> I really really really liked them when I was into bass music. I am very much so into acoustic and classical pieces now. Lol, it's the progression of most people here. Anywho, I might be willing to sell mine.


 

 No, thanks dude! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I got your point... haha I think that guy really messed up his review. He said it sounded similar to some Grado over-ear headphones!


----------



## chompy

More than a progression I'll just call it personal taste: I have both Monks and H180 and although I prefer Monk's mids and highs I overly prefer H180 sound, it's more funny to listen, Monks are too mid centric to me (I mainly listen trance music if that means something). 

But H180 treble is really rolled off, so my favourite bud right now is Edifier H185 as it has nice highs and with some bass boost it sounds quite good.


----------



## Whataudiophile

chompy said:


> More than a progression I'll just call it personal taste: I have both Monks and H180 and although I prefer Monk's mids and highs I overly prefer H180 sound, it's more funny to listen, Monks are too mid centric to me (I mainly listen trance music if that means something).
> 
> But H180 treble is really rolled off, so my favourite bud right now is Edifier H185 as it has nice highs and with some bass boost it sounds quite good.


 

 Thanks for your opinion,dude! How are the mids and lows(especially subbass) of 185 compared to the Monk?


----------



## chompy

whataudiophile said:


> Thanks for your opinion,dude! How are the mids and lows(especially subbass) of 185 compared to the Monk?


 
  
 H185 has much better bass than Monks, maybe it's due to fit problems, but Monk's bass is really anemic for my tastes. And mids are the oposite, in H185 they are quite recessed and in Monk they are more present.
  
 As I told, all depends to what you prefer, it seems that most here prefer Monk's sound signature, but I prefer V shaped sound, and right now the earbud I found that gives me the most similar sound to my Beyerdynamic DT770 are H185 (with aditional bass boost), but I'm not really an expert (I only have Yuin PK3, VE Monk, Edifier H180 and Edifier H185) and maybe there are other options that would suit better my tastes.


----------



## Whataudiophile

chompy said:


> H185 has much better bass than Monks, maybe it's due to fit problems, but Monk's bass is really anemic for my tastes. And mids are the oposite, in H185 they are quite recessed and in Monk they are more present.
> 
> As I told, all depends to what you prefer, it seems that most here prefer Monk's sound signature, but I prefer V shaped sound, and right now the earbud I found that gives me the most similar sound to my Beyerdynamic DT770 are H185 (with aditional bass boost), but I'm not really an expert (I only have Yuin PK3, VE Monk, Edifier H180 and Edifier H185) and maybe there are other options that would suit better my tastes.


 

 How is the soundstage? Did you buy it from Ali? I am gonna buy now and I don't want to end up with a fake one.


----------



## ozkan

chompy said:


> More than a progression I'll just call it personal taste: I have both Monks and H180 and although I prefer Monk's mids and highs I overly prefer H180 sound, it's more funny to listen, Monks are too mid centric to me (I mainly listen trance music if that means something).
> 
> But H180 treble is really rolled off, so my favourite bud right now is Edifier H185 as it has nice highs and with some bass boost it sounds quite good.


 
  
 Are you using any foams on H180 or naked? Can you please compare Monk and H180 with donut foams on? Thank you.


----------



## rggz

[off] I'm trying to read some posts in Thailand language with google translate because have some much stuff about earbuds, but can someone help me with "55" "555" meaning?


----------



## chompy

As I said I'm not an expert, but I find that soundstage is right (maybe ClieOS and Golov who also have all these buds could help you better) and yes I purchased all of them throught Aliexpress (except PK3 that I bought locally).
  
 I always use earbuds with foams, because other way they don't feel confy and I wear them sometimes all the morning. I've used with donuts and with full foams and I prefer H180 with donuts (they are boomy and highs are rolled off so this way I get some more treble from them), with Monks it doesn't matter which foams I use because neither bass nor treble is good for me (maybe donuts improves highs a bit) and I use H185 with full foams as their highs are really bright but it lacks some bass (not in quality but in quantity) and then I get some warmer sound from them.


----------



## tukangketik

rggz said:


> [off] I'm trying to read some posts in [COLOR=222222]Thailand language with google translate because have some much stuff about earbuds, but can someone help me with "55" "555" [/COLOR]meaning?



Its LOL in english. Or HaHaHa the more the longer the laugh


----------



## Trzystatrzy

hey!
 Does anyone know of a decent headphones with earpieces? I mean something like this
 http://www.amazon.com/Philips-SHS3200BK-37-Flexible-Headphones/dp/B003CJTR82
  
 This earpieces are very helpful when I run


----------



## golov17

trzystatrzy said:


> hey!
> Does anyone know of a decent headphones with earpieces? I mean something like this
> http://www.amazon.com/Philips-SHS3200BK-37-Flexible-Headphones/dp/B003CJTR82
> 
> This earpieces are very helpful when I run


Sennheiser omx-series..


----------



## Danneq

trzystatrzy said:


> hey!
> Does anyone know of a decent headphones with earpieces? I mean something like this
> http://www.amazon.com/Philips-SHS3200BK-37-Flexible-Headphones/dp/B003CJTR82
> 
> This earpieces are very helpful when I run


 


 If you are prepared to pay a bit more (all of them between $100-200): B&O A8 (or the newer smartphone version B&O 3i), Creative Aurvana, Audio Technica ATH EC707 or Astrotec Lyra 6.


----------



## Danneq

A package from Hong Kong arrived yesterday. In it, there was a pair of Celsus Gramo One earbuds (I bought from bigbargainonline on Ebay, which is the same as Penon Audio).

 How do they sound? Well, I have never before heard such neutral earbuds. Completely transparent and no coloration at all. When I compared them to Blox TM7 and other expensive earbuds, everything sounds very colored and EQ'd compared to the Gramo One. I love the fun factor in TM7, and the Gramo One are so flat that they almost sound "boring" when you come from a pair of more colored earbuds.

 I'd have to say that the Celsus Gramo One truly are reference earbuds. Nothing really sticks out, ie bass, mids or treble. Everything is in its perfect place. Still they are very detailed and soundstage is very wide and deep. The only small complaint I have (except for them being too neutral and transparent) is that soundstage is not as tall as I would want.

 Are they worth $249? Well, they are not $100 better than Blox TM7 or VE Zen 2.0, just different. They should cost no more than $199 and they could easily cost $150 considering the only accessories included is a leather pouch and a few donut foams.

 One interesting thing is that the earbuds have got a vent in the back and if you cover it with your finger the sound changes completely, ie bass disappears and soundstage collapses. I have never before encountered earbuds with such an open design.

 (Not my photo):

  


 If you are looking for the perfect neutral and transparent earbud, there is only one current option: Celsus Gramo One. If only the price only could be lowered to around the same level as other high end earbuds (around $150)...


----------



## ClieOS

danneq said:


> If you are looking for the perfect neutral and transparent earbud, there is only one current option: Celsus Gramo One. If only the price only could be lowered to around the same level as other high end earbuds (around $150)...




Always interested in Celsus Gramo One myself, but price has been the biggest factor that stops me.


----------



## Danneq

clieos said:


> Always interested in Celsus Gramo One myself, but price has been the biggest factor that stops me.


 

 I agree. If I hadn't sold some stuff it would have been difficult to justify the price. Although I have paid more for earbuds earlier. I think I paid around $250 for my pair of Sony MDR-E252 about 3 years ago. But that was a pair of 30 year old earbuds new in the box. Other vintage Sony and Aiwa earbuds can demand high prices. I once took part in an auction on Ebay for a pair of Aiwa HP-V9, and I stopped bidding around €600. They finished at over €800!

 Anyway, the Gramo One are very good, but could easily cost $100 less...


----------



## golov17

http://www.head-fi.org/t/761288/review-celsus-sound-gramo-one-a-fantastic-open-backed-earbud#post_11480910


----------



## Danneq

Apparently, the prototype had more forward mids but the final version has got a more flat sound...


----------



## golov17

I got it for a change. Strange experience: the designer was drunk? Sound whitefish, they wanted AKG signature, but it not very good .. Rubber ring for what? Increase the diameter? Burn


----------



## golov17

earth vs sky, lolz


----------



## golov17

Also, save money on Asura 2.0 (month), this tuned for vocal lovers


----------



## ozkan

golov17 said:


> Also, save money on Asura 2.0 (month), this tuned for vocal lovers




Any info about the price?


----------



## golov17

Price to be announced, in addition, VE Runabout amp will also be available for international buyers, revised from the preliminary version, for best results.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> Price to be announced, in addition, VE Runabout amp will also be available for international buyers, revised from the preliminary version, for best results.


 
 I thought the roundabout was already being sold on Taobao?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I am REALLY enjoying these Earbud Thailand BOE, the sound just keeps getting better and better.
  

  
 --


----------



## yacobx

bloodypenguin said:


> I am REALLY enjoying these Earbud Thailand BOE, the sound just keeps getting better and better.
> 
> 
> 
> --


 
 which model is that?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

yacobx said:


> which model is that?


 
  
 Earbud Thailand - Black Onyx Earbud
  

  
  
 My Review:  http://www.head-fi.org/products/earbud-thailand-black-onyx-earbud-boe/reviews/14988
  
 --


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Just bought a pair of 灵动2.0 320Ohms from Seahf for myself as an early birthday present! Can't wait for it to arrive!


----------



## yacobx

bloodypenguin said:


> Earbud Thailand - Black Onyx Earbud
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Excellent review sir


----------



## Zani004

danneq said:


> I forgot to thank Golov17 for this one. Bought it right away! I have been curious about the Tomahawk for a long time. I bought the DK-PU wood earbuds from the same Aliexpress seller, but he didn't have the Tomahawk 3 weeks ago. And here I wanted to go easy on buying new earbuds after buying the Celsus Gramo One a few days ago! $249 is a lot for a pair of earbuds, but I recently sold some headphones that I didn't use anymore (Sennheiser PX100, AKG K420 & K518DJ) plus some old FiiO headphone amps (E3 & E5) and a bunch of DVD & Blu ray movies and I got close to $220 in total for my old stuff. So I suppose I "only" paid around $30 in "new money" for the Gramo One.
> 
> *Will share my impressions of* both the Gramo One and *the Tomahawks when they have arrived*.


 
 Danneq, did you receive these yet? My impatience to hear your findings forced this serial lurker to join up.


----------



## ozkan

bloodypenguin said:


> Earbud Thailand - Black Onyx Earbud
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Great review. Do you prefer it over Monk?


----------



## Danneq

zani004 said:


> Danneq, did you receive these yet? My impatience to hear your findings forced this serial lurker to join up.


 
  
 Hi,

 I just ordered these on the 17th, and when I bought the DK-PU wood earbuds from the same seller, it took a little over 14 days from China to Sweden. So I might receive the earbuds the first week in February...


----------



## Danneq

bloodypenguin said:


> Earbud Thailand - Black Onyx Earbud
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 They look a lot like Blox TM7! Is the black color matte or more shiny?

 Here's a picture of the TM7 (once again, not mine):
  


Spoiler: Blox TM7


----------



## Zani004

danneq said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just ordered these on the 17th, and when I bought the DK-PU wood earbuds from the same seller, it took a little over 14 days from China to Sweden. So I might receive the earbuds the first week in February...


 

 Ah, didn't realize you'd only just ordered them. Have to hold back my enthusiasm for a few weeks then.


----------



## golov17

BOE


----------



## BloodyPenguin

danneq said:


> They look a lot like Blox TM7! Is the black color matte or more shiny?
> 
> Here's a picture of the TM7 (once again, not mine):
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, they do look identical on the outside, though my guess is they are different on the inside.  But with so many OEM companies making earbuds, who knows??
  
 I've never tried the TM7, I just know I REALLY like the BOE.
  
 --


----------



## Whataudiophile

ozkan said:


> Great review. Do you prefer it over Monk?


 
 I asked him the same question on the page but still no answer.


----------



## golov17

Strange you people: why should he prefer something than over that? For example, I want to have 20 fingers on my hands and I use them all, each in its time, lolz


----------



## BloodyPenguin

ozkan said:


> Great review. Do you prefer it over Monk?


 
  
  


whataudiophile said:


> I asked him the same question on the page but still no answer.


 
  
 Ha, totally missed these questions as I have been SUPER busy reviewing a bunch of awesome products.
  
  
 BOE vs Monk.  
  
  
 Well first of all, you could have 6 Monks for the price of one BOE.  So I find it hard to compare the two.
  
 The Monk is a budget beast.  Build with the toughest cable I have ever seen on an earbud.  Where the BOE is much more delicate.  
  
 Sound wise they are not that far off, both not being too colored or overall bassy.  The BOE does have a bigger soundstage and a little more "meat" to the sound signature though.
  
  
 To which I prefer, well I guess it depends on the situation.  The Monk is my travel pair, easy to throw in a bag or just leave laying around as it is built to take it.
  
 I use the BOE for more analytical applications, like when I am editing photos on reviews for hours at a time.
  
  
 Hope that helps answer your question a little.  I say just buy both.  Enjoy.
  
  
  
  
  
 EDIT, here is what I wrote in the comment section about the Monk vs Asura vs BOE:
  


> Let me do my best to break them down.  Best Sound for a budget, the Monk wins hands down with its overall smooth yet still detailed sound signature and super tough build.   My thoughts on the Asura can be found in my review link a couple comments up.  I will say the Asura and BOE are a closer match.  The Asura has a slight edge in analytical presentation and build quality with its awesome cable.  The BOE has the bigger soundstage and great solid, controlled bass.  I love all three earbuds for what they each can do.


 
  
 ..


----------



## ozkan

bloodypenguin said:


> Ha, totally missed these questions as I have been SUPER busy reviewing a bunch of awesome products.
> 
> 
> BOE vs Monk.
> ...




Does BOE sound more airy than Monk? How do you compare them in treble wise?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

ozkan said:


> Does BOE sound more airy than Monk? How do you compare them in treble wise?


 
 Yes, the BOE is much more airy than the Monk.
  
 Treble wise, the BOE extends just a tad farther and cleaner, but still relatively close to the Monk.  
  
 --


----------



## listen4joy

ClieOS are you going to review and rank the MONKS?


----------



## ClieOS

listen4joy said:


> ClieOS are you going to review and rank the MONKS?


 
  
 In due course, yes.


----------



## Whataudiophile

golov17 said:


> Strange you people: why should he prefer something than over that? For example, I want to have 20 fingers on my hands and I use them all, each in its time, lolz


 
 lol....  It is pretty strange that you compared earbuds with fingers.They are two different worlds.You made my day,dude!


----------



## golov17

whataudiophile said:


> lol....  It is pretty strange that you compared earbuds with fingers.They are two different worlds.You made my day,dude!


Well, nothing unusual, lol. Fingers are helping to capture something of any shape, different earbuds help capture the music, differents, for the soul, and how it will get to do better, what is worse, IMHO


----------



## Nec3

I'm very much enjoying my Baldoor-Mrice E100's, except I lost both sets of foam... So I'm going to order a bunch of earbud covers and experiment with another set of cheap earbuds! I've been looking at the Edifier H180 and someone said they sounded like mini-grados?

 I hope so, because I quite like grado.

 If you guys disagree on my purchase decisions, any suggestions for earbuds with inline mics?


----------



## golov17

nec3 said:


> I'm very much enjoying my Baldoor-Mrice E100's, except I lost both sets of foam... So I'm going to order a bunch of earbud covers and experiment with another set of cheap earbuds! I've been looking at the Edifier H180 and someone said they sounded like mini-grados?
> 
> 
> I hope so, because I quite like grado.
> ...


Edifier h185p with mic and better, than h180, IMHO


----------



## Nec3

golov17 said:


> Edifier h185p with mic and better, than h180, IMHO


 
 My mind was generally set on Edifier, so I'll give the H185P a go and I'll let you know my impressions :

 Edit: thanks ;D


----------



## golov17

nec3 said:


> My mind was generally set on Edifier, so I'll give the H185P a go and I'll let you know my impressions :
> 
> 
> Edit: thanks ;D


 Nice. Also try h101 
http://s.aliexpress.com/q2iaueue


----------



## golov17

Recommended for 0,8 bucks 
http://s.aliexpress.com/q2iaueue


----------



## golov17

Ve Asura 2.0 comming.. soon


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> Recommended for 0,8 bucks
> http://s.aliexpress.com/q2iaueue




+1. I have one and is pretty cool. I like it a lot.

--


----------



## ballog

ClieOS do you have info about Shozy Cygnus (sound signature). They are at 89usd so in the same price bracket as Asura 2.0 (78usd). I was eager to get the Asura 2.0 but Lee said they will be brighter than Zen 2.0, also the price seems a bit steep compared to Asura 1.0 (50usd).


----------



## ClieOS

ballog said:


> @ClieOS do you have info about Shozy Cygnus (sound signature). They are at 89usd so in the same price bracket as Asura 2.0 (78usd). I was eager to get the Asura 2.0 but Lee said they will be brighter than Zen 2.0, also the price seems a bit steep compared to Asura 1.0 (50usd).


 
  
 No, haven't listened to that one yet.


----------



## Frederick Wang

Got my pair of Seahf 2.0 320ohm
 Bet they are better than chocolate, huh?


----------



## ozkan

golov17 said:


> Nice. Also try h101
> http://s.aliexpress.com/q2iaueue




Are they comparable to Monk or better than H180? What do you think golov17?

Wow this was my 2000th post.


----------



## Frederick Wang

Right out of the box, Seahf 2.0 picks up more detail than VE Monk, makes the later sounds on the anemic side, bass is more controlled, but treble is noticeably brighter. The source is HM901U with balanced amp card. I'm not sure that DAP have enough power to drive it properly. will be back with more impressions


----------



## golov17

ozkan said:


> Are they comparable to Monk or better than H180? What do you think golov17?
> 
> Wow this was my 2000th post.


 for me: Monk>h101>h185>h180


----------



## ozkan

golov17 said:


> for me: Monk>h101>h185>h180




When is the Chinese holiday?


----------



## golov17

ozkan said:


> When is the Chinese holiday?


 http://www.timeanddate.com/holidays/china/


----------



## AudioNewbi3

frederick wang said:


> Got my pair of Seahf 2.0 320ohm
> Bet they are better than chocolate, huh?


 
  
 Can't wait to get mine~!
 PLEASE! Do make a review of the buds


----------



## golov17

my voice in the minority


----------



## Frederick Wang

audionewbi3 said:


> Can't wait to get mine~!
> PLEASE! Do make a review of the buds


 
 Will do, this little thing definitely need more power than my DAP can produce, so I ordered a new amp which is still on the way.
 I wouldn't give any premature "impressions" before I have proper gears. 
  
 By the by, I have been using VE monks for several days, my discontent with it grows. Besides its faulty treble and unreal timbre, I found its soundstage to be over-stretched, a fact made more manifest by duets, or if you use it for movies, the artificiality of soundstage is just unbearable. The buds are still something, but I will cross it off my "hi-fi" list.


----------



## golov17

$5, lolzz. Buy Zen, dude


----------



## RedJohn456

frederick wang said:


> Right out of the box, Seahf 2.0 picks up more detail than VE Monk, makes the later sounds on the anemic side, bass is more controlled, but treble is noticeably brighter. The source is HM901U with balanced amp card. I'm not sure that DAP have enough power to drive it properly. will be back with more impressions


 

 That explains why you're harping on the monk lmao 
  
 Btw you do know that Seahf is a company that steals from other companies, in addition to making fake products? As in they take other companies products and just put their name on it claiming its theirs. 
  
 So you say VE Monk sounds anemic in comparison (Monk has more than enough bass, so that would make the Seahf 2.0 like beats lol) then you say the Seahf is more controlled. so which is it? Just find it funny that you start talking bad about the monk when tons of respected reviewers have said completely opposite things. But seeing you gush about seahf, its starting to make sense why you're talking bad about the monk. Nice try tho, gotta try harder.


----------



## golov17

What!!


----------



## Danneq

Haha! Don't trash the Monks!

 BTW, I listened to my pair of Monks that I got free with the Zen 2.0 and put them in a drawer. Don't dislike them, but not my type of sound...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Okay, let's be more clear on this - 小刀 is @zhibli06 here in the forum  and he is the boss of VE. 虫哥 runs the factory that OEM'ed Zen 1.0 / Asura / Monk, but he also OEMs earbuds for other lesser known earbuds brand in China as well. He is sort of a well known manufacturer in the earbuds circle in China.
> 
> I am not really sure you can call 虫哥 the distributor for VE. For example, VSONIC recently starts to OEM for Pioneer in China, but you certainly won't refer VSONIC as Pioneer's distributor.


 
  
  


redjohn456 said:


> That explains why you're harping on the monk lmao
> 
> Btw you do know that Seahf is a company that steals from other companies, in addition to making fake products? As in they take other companies products and just put their name on it claiming its theirs.
> 
> So you say VE Monk sounds anemic in comparison (Monk has more than enough bass, so that would make the Seahf 2.0 like beats lol) then you say the Seahf is more controlled. so which is it? Just find it funny that you start talking crap about the monk when tons of respected reviewers have said completely opposite things. But seeing you gush about seahf, its starting to make sense why you're talking crap about the monk. Nice try tho, gotta try harder.


 
  
 So yeah RedJohn......... Calm down everyone. Lets' have fun discussing earbuds. Spread the love not hate. 

 p.s. 虫哥=seahf


----------



## golov17

Hmm..


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> Hmm..


 
 SEXY SMEXY


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> SEXY SMEXY


----------



## chompy

golov17 said:


> Hmm..


 
  
 Thanks, it seems that you have already purchased one pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Let's us know when you receive them how they compare to H180 and H185...


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> clieos said:
> 
> 
> > Okay, let's be more clear on this - 小刀 is @zhibli06 here in the forum  and he is the boss of VE. 虫哥 runs the factory that OEM'ed Zen 1.0 / Asura / Monk, but he also OEMs earbuds for other lesser known earbuds brand in China as well. He is sort of a well known manufacturer in the earbuds circle in China.
> ...


 
  
 Okay, I don't want to drill on this topic either, but a bit of self-correction is in order. I just got it from good authority that 虫哥 isn't the actual OEM for VE. He was somewhat involved in the early VE models R&D, but not in any technical or manufacturing way. Rather not comment more on this but let just say something happened and they have to part their way very early on.
  
 Now let's back to the regular program.


----------



## Frederick Wang

redjohn456 said:


> That explains why you're harping on the monk lmao
> 
> Btw you do know that Seahf is a company that steals from other companies, in addition to making fake products? As in they take other companies products and just put their name on it claiming its theirs.
> 
> So you say VE Monk sounds anemic in comparison (Monk has more than enough bass, so that would make the Seahf 2.0 like beats lol) then you say the Seahf is more controlled. so which is it? Just find it funny that you start talking crap about the monk when tons of respected reviewers have said completely opposite things. But seeing you gush about seahf, its starting to make sense why you're talking crap about the monk. Nice try tho, gotta try harder.


 
  
  
  
  
 I didn't "talk crap about the monk", if you read my post on the monk several pages earlier, I actually said some very nice things about it, and I said I'd recommend it to everyone considering the price. 
  
 I actually saw some rumors about the feud between the Seahf company and VE company, there are contradictory allegations. What is the truth? Honestly, as a music enthusiast and an earphone hunter,  I cannot care less. 
  
 I tried to give my frank impressions, immature/inaccurate as they may be, for I'm new to the hobby and unversed in the terminologies. But rest assured I have no vested interest in the trade nor the dishonesty to spread lies around. 
  
 But you sir, with all due respect, what you said about me borders on offense. I hope it could be sincere exchange of opinions, I don't appreciate the language you used.


----------



## Frederick Wang

clieos said:


> Okay, I don't want to drill on this topic either, but a bit of self-correction is in order. I just got it from good authority that 虫哥 isn't the actual OEM for VE. He was somewhat involved in the early VE models R&D, but not in any technical or manufacturing way. Rather not comment more on this but let just say something happened and they have to part their way very early on.
> 
> Now let's back to the regular program.


 
 Yep. Let's keep it clean. 
 It's about earbuds & music people


----------



## Saoshyant

Everyone please keep in mind, for all items in this hobby, there are people that will love it and others that will hate it.  People that think the item in question is amazing, and others that find it lackluster.  Keeping this in mind, let's just agree to disagree.  The arguing detracts for the rest of us.
  
 Now for a change of pace:


----------



## Frederick Wang

saoshyant said:


> Everyone please keep in mind, for all items in this hobby, there are people that will love it and others that will hate it.  People that think the item in question is amazing, and others that find it lackluster.  Keeping this in mind, let's just agree to disagree.  The arguing detracts for the rest of us.


 
 Sorry for the ruckus I caused, wouldn't respond to it anymore


----------



## AudioNewbi3

chompy said:


> Thanks, it seems that you have already purchased one pair
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I am also bloody eager to know hahaha


clieos said:


> Okay, I don't want to drill on this topic either, but a bit of self-correction is in order. I just got it from good authority that 虫哥 isn't the actual OEM for VE. He was somewhat involved in the early VE models R&D, but not in any technical or manufacturing way. Rather not comment more on this but let just say something happened and they have to part their way very early on.
> 
> Now let's back to the regular program.


 
  
  


frederick wang said:


> Sorry for the ruckus I caused, wouldn't respond to it anymore


 
  
 MAke love not war~! Hahaha


----------



## golov17

Of course, guys, I'll let you know


----------



## RedJohn456

audionewbi3 said:


> So yeah RedJohn......... Calm down everyone. Lets' have fun discussing earbuds. Spread the love not hate.
> 
> p.s. 虫哥=seahf


 

 nothing against the poster (I wasnt being offensive in my post), as a principle I dont like dishonest companies in general so I was a bit blunt but thats the last i will speak of this too. to each their own


----------



## Nec3

"Good news is we are in the process of bringing full line of Edifier headphones to Canada. The first batch should be arriving in Canada in about a week and available for purchase by mid February. Subscribe to our newletters on edifier.ca to keep tuned for the announcement."
 -Edifier Representative

 Looks like I'll be waiting 3 weeks, which is the minimum shipping time for aliexpress to arrive to my doorstep. Might as well :>


----------



## RedJohn456

nec3 said:


> "Good news is we are in the process of bringing full line of Edifier headphones to Canada. The first batch should be arriving in Canada in about a week and available for purchase by mid February. Subscribe to our newletters on edifier.ca to keep tuned for the announcement."
> -Edifier Representative
> 
> Looks like I'll be waiting 3 weeks, which is the minimum shipping time for aliexpress to arrive to my doorstep. Might as well :>


 

 will they have local distributors? would be cool to try out their stuff at local stores.


----------



## Nec3

redjohn456 said:


> will they have local distributors? would be cool to try out their stuff at local stores.


 
 I specifically asked about online orders, I'll send them another email and ask about local stores.

 If they are, forbid they release it at best buy... prices would be jacked up pretty high.


----------



## Trzystatrzy

Monks are playing good, fast, great resolution and nice bass impact, but they are too big and uncomfortable. And could have a *little* more warmth on midrange. Yuin PK3 are extremely comfortable, but they play too warm and have a very extended midrange. What headphones will be free from defects in the above models and combine their advantages? Remote is a nice addition. Maybe the Pioneer SE-CE521? Remax 303? Blue Ever Blue 328R? Sidy / _BGVP KT100?_


----------



## Nec3

trzystatrzy said:


> Monks are playing good, fast, great resolution and nice bass impact, but they are too big and uncomfortable. And could have a *little* more warmth on midrange. Yuin PK3 are extremely comfortable, but they play too warm and have a very extended midrange. What headphones will be free from defects in the above models and combine their advantages? Remote is a nice addition. Maybe the Pioneer SE-CE521? Remax 303? Blue Ever Blue 328R? Sidy / _BGVP KT100?_


 
 Just want to comment that most of the good earbuds are pretty big for some reason.


----------



## Raketen

nec3 said:


> Just want to comment that most of the good earbuds are pretty big for some reason.


 
 If I had to guess the larger driver size allows for more bass/air movement, which is important because the unsealed/open-ear design?


----------



## nightgost

extended midrange?? can you elaborate on that thought please? Nec3


----------



## Nec3

nightgost said:


> extended midrange?? can you elaborate on that thought please? Nec3


 
 I think you mean @Trzystatrzy 

 Although one can assume an extended midrange means forward.


----------



## Trzystatrzy

yes, forward  sorry for my english
  
 And bass that rumbles too much - I don't like it


----------



## golov17

trzystatrzy said:


> Monks are playing good, fast, great resolution and nice bass impact, but they are too big and uncomfortable. And could have a *little* more warmth on midrange. Yuin PK3 are extremely comfortable, but they play too warm and have a very extended midrange. What headphones will be free from defects in the above models and combine their advantages? Remote is a nice addition. Maybe the Pioneer SE-CE521? Remax 303? Blue Ever Blue 328R? Sidy / _BGVP KT100?_


Yuin pk2


----------



## yacobx

golov17 said:


> Yuin pk2



How's the bass on these?
Also how do they compare to the zens?


----------



## golov17

Bass completely controlled by good quality, but less than that of Zen


----------



## yacobx

golov17 said:


> Bass completely controlled by good quality, but less than that of Zen




Are the ear pieces smaller that what lee uses?


----------



## golov17

yacobx said:


> Are the ear pieces smaller that what lee uses?


Yes small size


----------



## yacobx

golov17 said:


> Yes small size




I might have to get me some then. Is there I big difference between the pk2 and pk3?

Also isn't the shouzy in the same housing?


----------



## Nec3

raketen said:


> If I had to guess the larger driver size allows for more bass/air movement, which is important because the unsealed/open-ear design?


 
 Sorry for not answering to your post earlier, totally missed it.

 Larger drivers seem to correlate to larger soundstage very often in the headphones I've seen and heard. Like, look at the HD800's, 56mm drivers are massive!
 With the extra power, they might also relate to sub-bass as you said, the Sony XB1000's have 70mm drivers.


----------



## golov17

yacobx said:


> I might have to get me some then. Is there I big difference between the pk2 and pk3?
> 
> Also isn't the shouzy in the same housing?


similar housing, but other sound sig


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Just a head's up people, the VE Asura 2.0 like Golov mentioned is tuned for vocals and has already been released in there official Taobao store
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.1-c.w4004-4479688957.12.QQNrFW&id=43363020413


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Just a head's up people, the VE Asura 2.0 like Golov mentioned is tuned for vocals and has already been released in there official Taobao store
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.1-c.w4004-4479688957.12.QQNrFW&id=43363020413


Soon on Aliexpress..


----------



## shankar

trzystatrzy said:


> Monks are playing good, fast, great resolution and nice bass impact, but they are too big and uncomfortable. And could have a *little* more warmth on midrange. Yuin PK3 are extremely comfortable, but they play too warm and have a very extended midrange. What headphones will be free from defects in the above models and combine their advantages? Remote is a nice addition. Maybe the Pioneer SE-CE521? Remax 303? Blue Ever Blue 328R? Sidy / _BGVP KT100?_


 
 I have tried the Remax and the BEB and I prefer my Monks better.


----------



## Saoshyant

The BEB 328r is fun, but I'll grab the Monk over it every time. I do want to try the Edifier h180p at some point.


----------



## Trzystatrzy

For me, Monks are much better than H180. Edifier has too boomy bass and too soft highs


----------



## golov17

Go.. go..


----------



## kenman345

hey, anyone know whats with the $178 version of the VE Zen 2.0?


----------



## golov17

kenman345 said:


> hey, anyone know whats with the $178 version of the VE Zen 2.0?


balanced edition for PONO, etc..


----------



## kenman345

golov17 said:


> balanced edition for PONO, etc..


 
 Does it come with adapters for the AK players and for SE usage?


----------



## golov17

what you want, just contact Lee via email for details if you are interested in purchasing
 小刀-Lee
geargeeksp@qq.com
http://www.head-fi.org/t/759219/ve-a-new-and-impressive-earbuds-brand


----------



## WillTirta

kenman345 said:


> Does it come with adapters for the AK players and for SE usage?



Yes.. you will get converter..


----------



## music4mhell

Guys i just bought my Chord Mojo.
  
 I am thinking of buying VE ZEN 2.0
  
 Any alternative i should think of ?
  
 Thanks in advance guys.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

music4mhell said:


> Guys i just bought my Chord Mojo.
> 
> I am thinking of buying VE ZEN 2.0
> 
> ...


 
  
 While I have not heard either the Chord Mojo, or the VE Zen 2.0, I can tell you right now, that is my DREAM setup.  I can't even imagine how awesome the two of them would sound together!
  
 ..


----------



## music4mhell

bloodypenguin said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Guys i just bought my Chord Mojo.
> ...


 
 wow that's a bold statement...i think i should go ahead and order VE Zen 2.0 ASAP


----------



## BloodyPenguin

music4mhell said:


> wow that's a bold statement...i think i should go ahead and order VE Zen 2.0 ASAP


 
  
 It is a 100% honest statement.  Yeah, you should, you totally should order the VE Zen 2.0.  I look forward to hearing how the two of them pair together.  I am sure it is magical.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 --


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> It is a 100% honest statement.  Yeah, you should, you totally should order the VE Zen 2.0.  I look forward to hearing how the two of them pair together.  I am sure it is magical.
> 
> --


 Black Edition better


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> bloodypenguin said:
> 
> 
> > It is a 100% honest statement.  Yeah, you should, you totally should order the VE Zen 2.0.  I look forward to hearing how the two of them pair together.  I am sure it is magical.
> ...


 
 I just ordered the normal ver 2.0
  
 Black edition seems a bit expensive to me, may be i will order that later after some months.


----------



## Saoshyant

I really should break down and pick up a Mojo...  As silly as it sounds, I know my first listen will be with the Monk


----------



## ozkan

saoshyant said:


> I really should break down and pick up a Mojo...  As silly as it sounds, I know my first listen will be with the Monk




Not silly. My friend has listened the Monk through Mojo and he said it was a wonderful pairing.


----------



## kenman345

I ordered the Zen v2 and will use them at work with my mojo. I have heard the Zen can benefit from around 200+ hours of burn in?


----------



## apmusson

kenman345 said:


> I ordered the Zen v2 and will use them at work with my mojo. I have heard the Zen can benefit from around 200+ hours of burn in?




I have ordered the v2 as well. Looking forward to listening to them with the Mojo / android phone and Tera player too


----------



## Pokersound

bloodypenguin said:


> While I have not heard either the Chord Mojo, or the VE Zen 2.0, I can tell you right now, that is my DREAM setup.  I can't even imagine how awesome the two of them would sound together!
> 
> ..


 
 I have the Mojo and Zen 1.0.
  
 Is the BEST I've listened.
  
 Hope to buy Zen 2.0 soon


----------



## music4mhell

apmusson said:


> kenman345 said:
> 
> 
> > I ordered the Zen v2 and will use them at work with my mojo. I have heard the Zen can benefit from around 200+ hours of burn in?
> ...


 
 I also ordered VE Zen 2.0 Wow it's quite famous among Mojo owners


----------



## Danneq

Today I received the Tomahawk earbuds that I ordered 2 weeks ago.

 Out of the box they sound pretty good. They have a nice airy quality with good detail. In the ad they are compared to Sony MDR-E282 and Sennheiser MX985. I've got a pair of E282 and have compared them. I would say that the balance between lows, mids and highs as well as the soundstage is pretty similar. But the E282 have got much more "dry" sounding mids overall. The Tomahawks have also got more "sparkle" in the highs. A bit more like the VE Monks. Perhaps the Tomahawks could be described as a sort of cross between the Sony MDR-E282 and the VE Monk?

 Build quality is good. The jack is made from metal. The housing seems to also be made from metal as it is a bit compact/heavy. The front grill is plastic. It's the same one as used in earbuds that uses Sennheiser MX400-housings, for example Blox earbuds. The cable feels like it's of good quality. It has got as slightly rubbery feel to it.

 Right now you can buy the Tomahawk from Easy earphones on Aliexpress for $49.50. You can get a $1 discount and a $2 coupon which puts the total price at $46.50 with (free registered) shipping included. Definitely recommended.

  


Spoiler: Music Maker Tomahaws photos



 



 The earbud case that was included:


----------



## Zani004

danneq said:


> Today I received the Tomahawk earbuds that I ordered 2 weeks ago.
> 
> Out of the box they sound pretty good. They have a nice airy quality with good detail. In the ad they are compared to Sony MDR-E282 and Sennheiser MX985. I've got a pair of E282 and have compared them. I would say that the balance between lows, mids and highs as well as the soundstage is pretty similar. But the E282 have got much more "dry" sounding mids overall. The Tomahawks have also got more "sparkle" in the highs. A bit more like the VE Monks. Perhaps the Tomahawks could be described as a sort of cross between the Sony MDR-E282 and the VE Monk?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the thoughts. Been waiting patiently for your review (well, not that patient, as I went ahead and ordered them anyway).
  
 How do they compare to Sennheiser MX980 and Zen 2.0?


----------



## golov17

To all!


----------



## Danneq

zani004 said:


> Thanks for the thoughts. Been waiting patiently for your review (well, not that patient, as I went ahead and ordered them anyway).
> 
> How do they compare to Sennheiser MX980 and Zen 2.0?


 


 I did compare them, however not very thoroughly, with some of my other earbuds, MX980 and Zen 2.0 included.

 First, I have to say that bass is deeper and hits harder on both MX980 and especially Zen 2.0. The Tomahawks have less bass impact. But they are still quite balanced and bass is not at all lean.

 Perhaps the MX980 and Zen 2.0 are closer to a "headphone sound" with their stronger bass impact, but the Tomahawks are still very good sounding with a pretty wide and deep soundstage and good detail and instrument separation. I have too many earbuds nowadays and too little time to bother ranking them, but considering build and sound quality, these should belong in my top 10 (the Blox TM7 are still no 1 in overall performance, the Celsus Gramo One being no 1 if I look at neutrality in sound and detail/instrument separation).


----------



## Zani004

Thanks for that. I guess for the money you can't expect them to equal the heavy hitters. Shame the Blox is no longer available.


----------



## golov17

In fact, Woo is now working on new models and he sent for the guys from Thailand, are some demo ..


----------



## yacobx

golov17 said:


> In fact, Woo is now working on new models and he sent for the guys from Thailand, are some demo ..


 
 Im excited! ive always wanted to get a pair of Blox.


----------



## Zani004

A flagship model? I sent him an email, but got no reply.


----------



## Danneq

zani004 said:


> Thanks for that. I guess for the money you can't expect them to equal the heavy hitters. Shame the Blox is no longer available.


 


 But if you want heavy hitting bass, you should go for IEMs. I'm listening to the Tomahawks now on my (vintage) Cowon X5 and bass is by no means weak. It is where you want and need it to be. But it's not the subwoofer like bass as the Zen 2.0 and Blox TM7 have. I you feel that bass is lacking, you should be able to boost it a bit...


----------



## golov17

zani004 said:


> A flagship model? I sent him an email, but got no reply.


not flagship, but..


----------



## Zani004

danneq said:


> But if you want heavy hitting bass, you should go for IEMs. I'm listening to the Tomahawks now on my (vintage) Cowon X5 and bass is by no means weak. It is where you want and need it to be. But it's not the subwoofer like bass as the Zen 2.0 and Blox TM7 have. I you feel that bass is lacking, you should be able to boost it a bit...


 

 No, I don't want or need a dominant bass. It was a bad choice of words. By "heavy hitters", I meant the flagship earbuds, mx985, TM7, Zen etc.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Anyone wants to try this?
  
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.70.ludDwb&id=524222823803&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail
  
 And this

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.22.ludDwb&id=526206994969&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> Anyone wants to try this?
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.70.ludDwb&id=524222823803&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail


 
  
 You mean "anyone tried this?" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Just got it a few days ago actually, haven't spent much time listen to it since I am so busy - but the first impression is really good. A big improvement over their previous model, the V5. Overall it has quite a balanced sound, neither particularly warm nor cold. Though not a mid-centric sound by definition, I do think its vocal is really well tuned. For now, I'll place it among the upper tier in the Great category. Overall a really good buy for the price. Highly recommended.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> You mean "anyone tried this?"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hohohoho, looks like my "Ang Pau" money will not be safe this year.

 CeilOs, your Tachikoma must be helping you out very much to dig up this gem. I encountered the buds on TB by chance during my regular browsing.

 How's the soundstaging?


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> Hohohoho, looks like my "Ang Pau" money will not be safe this year.
> 
> CeilOs, your Tachikoma must be helping you out very much to dig up this gem. I encountered the buds on TB by chance during my regular browsing.
> 
> How's the soundstaging?


 
  
 Earbuds are still kind of a big thing in China, and I frequent some Chinese headphone forums so I am somewhat aware of which one is making all the buzz.
  
 Soundstage is average, neither really good nor bad, which is what you will expect from something that has a good vocal (*mid range and soundastage tends to works against each other).


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Earbuds are still kind of a big thing in China, and I frequent some Chinese headphone forums so I am somewhat aware of which one is making all the buzz.
> 
> Soundstage is average, neither really good nor bad, which is what you will expect from something that has a good vocal (*mid range and soundastage tends to works against each other).


 
 Ah I see I see. Thanks for the reply. 

 The reason I was asking was because they seem to be an open design so I was wondering about it. But still, can you kindly do a more detail first impression or even brief review of this beauty?

 After what you have mentioned, I am going to have to consider buying these hahaha.

 Btw, mind I ask which chinese forum do you frequent?

 Teiba Baidu and Erji.net?


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> Ah I see I see. Thanks for the reply.
> 
> The reason I was asking was because they seem to be an open design so I was wondering about it. But still, can you kindly do a more detail first impression or even brief review of this beauty?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Don't really have time right now for a detail impression.
  
 Yep, I do visit both places.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Don't really have time right now for a detail impression.
> 
> Yep, I do visit both places.


 
 Alright, it's okay. Thanks for the brief impressions anyways mate!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

clieos said:


> Earbuds are still kind of a big thing in China, and I frequent some Chinese headphone forums so I am somewhat aware of which one is making all the buzz.


 
  
 If you have free time, could you post a few Earbuds making the "buzz"?  I am always on the lookout for some new ones to purchase.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 --


----------



## ClieOS

bloodypenguin said:


> If you have free time, could you post a few Earbuds making the "buzz"?  I am always on the lookout for some new ones to purchase.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think you guys already cover them well in this thread, namely the new Ostry awhile back and more recently, the Shozy.


----------



## music4mhell

Hey guys,
  
 How is Sudio TVA compare to VE Monk or *Baldoor E100 or JiuShao E600.*
  
*I just ordere VE Monk and ZEn 2.0.  I am tempted to buy Sudio TVA. *
*Give some inputs guys.*


----------



## golov17

What about ATH EC7gm, guys?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

ultimate buds

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.69.s4wq5Y&id=43414853614&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail


----------



## Danneq

I really like the idea with a detachable cable on earbuds! I wonder why no one has done that before? IEM's have had it for a long time, but not earbuds...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

danneq said:


> I really like the idea with a detachable cable on earbuds! I wonder why no one has done that before? IEM's have had it for a long time, but not earbuds...




I've sent emails to many earbud companies asking the same thing.

Never got a serious response.

..


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> I really like the idea with a detachable cable on earbuds! I wonder why no one has done that before? IEM's have had it for a long time, but not earbuds...


----------



## fleasbaby

golov17 said:


>


 
  
  
 I think I just queefed.


----------



## Saoshyant

golov17 said:


>




Well, my interest has certainly been drawn


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> Well, my interest has certainly been drawn



http://s.aliexpress.com/MjYJVnAf


----------



## Saoshyant

@golov17 That is fairly tempting, and a cable for it should be easily acquired. So roughly $100 USD total or so, depending on the cost of the cable.


----------



## DTKZ

Welp, I had decided to order a pair of the Earphone Association 400Ohm and they've just arrived.
  
 Don't want to be too hasty due to new toy syndrome, but I'm really liking what I hear. Early impressions is that they take some of the things I really enjoyed about the Zen 1.0 and improved on them. Lovely tactile bass but tightened up a bit and a more airy presentation.


----------



## Nec3

dtkz said:


> Welp, I had decided to order a pair of the Earphone Association 400Ohm and they've just arrived.
> 
> Don't want to be too hasty due to new toy syndrome, but I'm really liking what I hear. Early impressions is that they take some of the things I really enjoyed about the Zen 1.0 and improved on them. Lovely tactile bass but tightened up a bit and a more airy presentation.


 
 Just when I thought the 320 Ohm Zen was ridiculous.


----------



## DTKZ

It's actually not that hard to drive. It can still get fairly loud on my cellphone, a Sony Z5. It definitely does sound better on my Cayin N5 or when using an amp though.


----------



## Raketen

Not such a fan of detachable cables... prefer a robust strain relief. Good option though for all those people that want to add a Mic or something.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

My 320Ohms just arrived from bug bro. Brief impression is that driving them through my Z3 compact, they already sound better than the SIDY KT100 driven by the same phone. 
  
 It really makes me wonder, how can a low impedance bud, sounded less when being driven by a mobilephone when compared to a higher impedance bud?


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> My 320Ohms just arrived from bug bro. Brief impression is that driving them through my Z3 compact, they already sound better than the SIDY KT100 driven by the same phone.
> 
> It really makes me wonder, how can a low impedance bud, sounded less when being driven by a mobilephone when compared to a higher impedance bud?


 More high sensitivity..


----------



## yacobx

clieos said:


> I think you guys already cover them well in this thread, namely the new Ostry awhile back and more recently, the Shozy.




Are up gonna review the cyngus?


----------



## ClieOS

yacobx said:


> Are up gonna review the cyngus?


 
  
 Still haven't decided whether I'll get one or not.


----------



## Danneq

clieos said:


> > Originally Posted by *yacobx*
> >
> >
> >
> ...


 

 You should try the ones with a silly name: MrZ Music Maker Tomahawk.

 Most definitely a grower. These puppies have now busted their way into my top 5 (I do not really rank them in an exact order but think that Blox TM7, Sennheiser MX980 & Sony MDR E252 sound better overall, so the Tomahawks might be 4 or 5). I'm still on the fence about the VE Zens. They sound like headphones with a full sound, but the top end is a bit too tame for me. I would like a bit more sparkle. Still I'll keep the Zens as I want to collect top end/flagship earbuds...

 The Tomahawks have got a wide soundstage, great instrument separation and detail and better bass than I at first thought. They have the treble sparkle of the VE Monks with slightly less sharpness together with better balance between highs, mids & lows (no, they are not 10 times better than the Monks considering they cost $50 while the Monks cost $5, but I definitely find the Tomahawks to be more balanced and prefer them to the Monks).

 I compare the Tomahawks to cheaper stuff like Dasetn M1 & M760 or Baldoor Earbell E100. The Dasetn & Baldoor buds sound like earbuds while the Tomahawks join the TM7, MX980, E252, E282, E484 & VE Zens in the "earbuds that sound like headphones" category..

 As I wrote before, the Tomahawks are slightly below earbuds such as TM7, MX980 & VE Zen, but they only fall short by a little and I'd say that they are on the same level as the legendary Sony MDR E484. They sound a bit different than the E484, but are on the same overall level when it comes to overall sound quality.

 I almost forget to listen to the other earbuds I've bought lately, even Astrotec Lyra or Cesus Gramo One, because the Tomahawks are so sweet sounding...


----------



## yacobx

clieos said:


> Still haven't decided whether I'll get one or not.


 

 I decided to pick up a pair of Asura 2.0's for now. I read somewhere that they are tuned for use without foams and that intrigues me. I'll let you know my thoughts if you want and how they compare to the Zen's.


----------



## Zani004

danneq said:


> You should try the ones with a silly name: MrZ Music Maker Tomahawk.
> 
> Most definitely a grower. These puppies have now busted their way into my top 5 (I do not really rank them in an exact order but think that Blox TM7, Sennheiser MX980 & Sony MDR E252 sound better overall, so the Tomahawks might be 4 or 5). I'm still on the fence about the VE Zens. They sound like headphones with a full sound, but the top end is a bit too tame for me. I would like a bit more sparkle. Still I'll keep the Zens as I want to collect top end/flagship earbuds...
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's great news. I was hoping they might improve with some hours on them.
  
 Can't wait 'til my pair arrives. Have some Monks on the way too.


----------



## golov17

What is it?
http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32598013058.html


----------



## Angular Mo

I am grateful for this thread of our earbud community, and thank everyone for their contribution.

I gave up on earphones that have the rubber plugs; my ears are too small, don't like the pressure of sealing my ears and the cumbersomeness of removing one quickly.

I wish though that firms would invest in a mold similar to Apple's as a poor-man's IEM. Those foam covers wear out (and tear) too quickly for me.


----------



## golov17

angular mo said:


> I am grateful for this thread of our earbud community, and thank everyone for their contribution.
> 
> I gave up on earphones that have the rubber plugs; my ears are too small, don't like the pressure of sealing my ears and the cumbersomeness of removing one quickly.
> 
> I wish though that firms would invest in a mold similar to Apple's as a poor-man's IEM. Those foam covers wear out (and tear) too quickly for me.


 just, buy more..


----------



## music4mhell

How is Monk compare to *JiuShao E600/*Ubiquo ES903/Mrice E100.
  
 Thanks in advance guys.


----------



## Tarnum

@Danneq: I just curious about the extension of bass on the Tomahawk. Could you compare the extension and amount of Tomahawk's bass to VE Monk ? I wanna get new earbud that has deeper bass and more energy, forward in mid-range than Monk with price of 50$. Thank you very much !


----------



## Danneq

tarnum said:


> @Danneq: I just curious about the extension of bass on the Tomahawk. Could you compare the extension and amount of Tomahawk's bass to VE Monk ? I wanna get new earbud that has deeper bass and more energy, forward in mid-range than Monk with price of 50$. Thank you very much !


 


 I haven't listened too much to my Monks that I got for free with my pair of Zen 2.0. I find them a bit imbalanced with a focus on upper mids and treble (very nice soundstage, though!). Good bass texture but not too deep bass that seems to become even more light because of the focus on higher frequencies. I can compare them more closely later when I have a chance. About the bass on the Tomahawks, it is well textured. Perhaps slightly deeper than on the Monks, but not by much. The Tomahawks are very balanced with bass, mids & treble not overpowering each other. So that might give the bass more room in the music.

 Flagship earbuds such as Blox TM7, Sennheiser MX980/985 and Zen 2.0 have got another weight in their bass than most cheaper earbuds. They have both quantity and quality while cheaper earbuds usually only have one or the other.
 Both the Monks and Tomahawks have less bass than the other earbuds I mention. But as I wrote, the Tomahawks have got a very nice balanced sound.

 The Tomahawks have got nice mids. They are not the most forward that I've heard, rather I would charactarize them as a little bit laid back. They are forward enough to work great with rock music and still distant enough to not make the soundstage smaller and obscure details in the music.

 I can think of a lot of earbuds that have are great at a single thing but not as good at other things. Either they lack in bass, have too small soundstage (or not enough soundstage depth), too overpowering mids or too sharp highs.

 Then there are earbuds that I find more well balanced. The Tomahawks are one of those. (Yes, I notice that I use the word "balanced" a lot, but that's the way that I like to the describe them...)


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> What is it?
> http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32598013058.html


 


 Who's willing to try this DHUN1 and the more expensive DHUN2?

 My earbud spending money are used for some time now...


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> Who's willing to try this DHUN1 and the more expensive DHUN2?
> 
> 
> My earbud spending money are used for some time now...


Sweet Asura2.0, bro! Recommended!


----------



## golov17

Not bad, not good.. Norm. IMHO


----------



## music4mhell

music4mhell said:


> How is Monk compare to *JiuShao E600/*Ubiquo ES903/Mrice E100.
> 
> Thanks in advance guys.


 
 Any comment guys ?


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> Sweet Asura2.0, bro! Recommended!


 
 If the Asura 2.0 are a mix of Monk and Zen 2.0 I might like those the best out of the VE earbuds...


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> If the Asura 2.0 are a mix of Monk and Zen 2.0 I might like those the best out of the VE earbuds...


 tamed bass, vocals beautifully accents, HF with glitter. Certainly, Asura 2.0 is the jewel in the crown of VE. Especially when you consider the price. I am very impressed with a lot of gear emotions


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> tamed bass, vocals beautifully accents, HF with glitter. Certainly, Asura 2.0 is the jewel in the crown of VE. Especially when you consider the price. I am very impressed with a lot of gear emotions


 


 Too bad I bought too much stuff lately! I had to check out the DK-PU wood earbuds and Tomahawks on Aliexpress. Also the Celsus Gramo One (even if I got about $150 when I sold stuff and "only paid $100 of my own money for them - I counted wrong the first time - I sold stuff for $150, not $200-220).

 Well well. Hopefully the Asura will not sell out too soon...


----------



## golov17

Definitely worth it to keep on your radar


----------



## Danneq

tarnum said:


> @Danneq: I just curious about the extension of bass on the Tomahawk. Could you compare the extension and amount of Tomahawk's bass to VE Monk ? I wanna get new earbud that has deeper bass and more energy, forward in mid-range than Monk with price of 50$. Thank you very much !


 

 Right now I'm listening to both of them on my Rockboxed iRiver H120. The Monks have great detail and could easily be sold for $30. They are definitely on the same level as, or even above, Yuin PK3 and Blox BE3. Soundstage is really great on the Monks. When I switch to the Tomahawks, I do hear more punch in the bass. Instrument separation and layering is also better. But soundstage is slightly less extended. The Monks sound like $30 or $40 earbuds while the Tomahawks sound like $100 earbuds. At least in my ears...

 I can say that the Monks beat my DK-PU wood eabuds that I bought from Aliexpress for $59. Well, bass is deeper and punchier on the DK-PU, but soundstage is much smaller and instrument separation is not as good as on the Monks.


----------



## Tarnum

Danneq Thank you so much for the detailed comparison. I just ordered the Tomahawk. According to your description, it can be suitable for me.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

@Danneq, which do you think have the widest and deepest soundstage? The Monk, DK-PU, or Tomahawks?

 Thank-you


----------



## Danneq

The difference between the soundstage on the Monks and Tomahawk is not that big.

 Going only be soundstage (depth & width), I would rank them: Monk -> Tomahawk -> DK-PU


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> The difference between the soundstage on the Monks and Tomahawk is not that big.
> 
> Going only be soundstage (depth & width), I would rank them: Monk -> Tomahawk -> DK-PU


 
 Alright, thanks for the info mate~!


----------



## music4mhell

music4mhell said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > How is Monk compare to *JiuShao E600/*Ubiquo ES903/Mrice E100.
> ...


 
 Please comment buddies.


----------



## waynes world

danneq said:


> Right now I'm listening to both of them on my Rockboxed iRiver H120. The Monks have great detail and could easily be sold for $30. They are definitely on the same level as, or even above, Yuin PK3 and Blox BE3. Soundstage is really great on the Monks. When I switch to the Tomahawks, I do hear more punch in the bass. Instrument separation and layering is also better. But soundstage is slightly less extended. The Monks sound like $30 or $40 earbuds while the Tomahawks sound like $100 earbuds. At least in my ears...
> 
> I can say that the Monks beat my DK-PU wood eabuds that I bought from Aliexpress for $59. Well, bass is deeper and punchier on the DK-PU, but soundstage is much smaller and instrument separation is not as good as on the Monks.


 
  
 You have much more monetarily decisive ears than me, that's for sure! All I know is that if I spent $100 on the Monks, I'd probably think that I got a good deal


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> Please comment buddies.


 E600 boring, es903 bright, Mrice not comfortable fit, even though a good sound, they are all different in price. IMHO


----------



## Decommo

Has anyone own "OSTRY KC08 HiFi Audiophile Grade Earbuds"? Love to hear impression on this earbud. It looks amazing. Love to find out how it compare with VE Asura | Zen | Tomahawk.


----------



## Raketen

kinda curious about these, almost like supersized earbuds with 23mm drivers http://www.bedphones.com/FAQ.html


----------



## Saoshyant

Kind of.  I'd guess maybe something like earclips, the size seems about right.  I know I toss and turn a bit, so I'm not sure these would work for me.


----------



## music4mhell

raketen said:


> kinda curious about these, almost like supersized earbuds with 23mm drivers http://www.bedphones.com/FAQ.html




 No mention of Freq details... THD.. Resistance etc.. etc.. such basic information. Huh.


----------



## Raketen

music4mhell said:


> No mention of Freq details... THD.. Resistance etc.. etc.. such basic information. Huh.


 

 lol... hardly worse than a lot of MFRs though... also, at the bottom:

Driver Diameter: 23mm 
Sensitivity: 116 dB/V ±5dB @ 1 kHz
Impedance: 32 Ω ±15%
Plug: standard 3.5mm stereo, gold-plated
Cable Length: 59"/150cm
Frequency Range: 20-20kHz


----------



## Danneq

waynes world said:


> You have much more monetarily decisive ears than me, that's for sure! All I know is that if I spent $100 on the Monks, I'd probably think that I got a good deal


 


 Haha! I'm just comparing the Monks to earbuds that I think are around the same level, such as Yuin PK3 (around $30-35) and Blox BE3 (around $30). And, yeah. If the Monks had fancy packaging and accessories, they could probably be sold for $100.

 Edit: And if you would be willing to spend $100 on the Monks, you should really consider the Tomahawks for $50!


----------



## golov17

https://m.facebook.com/groups/4623534735?view=permalink&id=10154022690459736&ref=m_notif&notif_t=group_activity


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> https://m.facebook.com/groups/4623534735?view=permalink&id=10154022690459736&ref=m_notif¬if_t=group_activity


 


 Oh! Same company that makes the Tomahawk! The Ting has got the same housing as the Tomahawk, but silver or white instead of black. The front grill is different than on the Tomahawk. I wonder if this is a lower or higher level earbud than the Tomahawk. Must be higher since it competes with the Zen 1.0...

 I feel as excited now as in the old Blox days when the TM7 was announced!


----------



## Decommo

@Danneq If you don't mind asking, how good Tomahawk is against VE Asura 2.0 and Zen 2.0 in terms of sound quality? Just your personal impression would be fine and greatly appreciated.


----------



## diavolo rosso

golov17 said:


> https://m.facebook.com/groups/4623534735?view=permalink&id=10154022690459736&ref=m_notif¬if_t=group_activity


 
  
 how does it compare with tomahawk?


----------



## Danneq

decommo said:


> @Danneq If you don't mind asking, how good Tomahawk is against VE Asura 2.0 and Zen 2.0 in terms of sound quality? Just your personal impression would be fine and greatly appreciated.


 


 I haven't heard the Asura 2.0. Overall, I would say that Zen 2.0 has got deeper bass and a fuller sound than the Tomahawks. Quite amazing lows for a pair of earbuds. The Zen 2.0 has got a wide soundstage with good detail. Highs are okay. My slight problem with the Zen 2.0 is that the focus is a bit too strong on lows. I used to love my Yuin PK2 because of their mids, but now I have recently sold them.
 Perhaps I'm getting older, but I prefer a good balance between lows, mids and highs with no special focus on any of them. This combined with an open soundstage and good detail and instrument separation.

 I feel that the Tomahawk give me that. Bass is good but not as deep as on the Zen 2.0. It's deeper than on the Monks, though. Vocals are okay. Perhaps not as much in focus as on the Asura 2.0 (I'm guessing). The thing I like the best besides the good balance, is instrument separation. It is easy to distinguish between different details and locate them in the soundstage.

 Like, if a rock or metal song is playing and the music is busy with guitars, and the drummer hits a crash or splash cymbal, you can easily make out the cymbal continue to reverberate on the Tomahawks. On many earbuds, and headphones, often different sounds flow together when the music is busy. The Tomahawk can keep the sounds and instruments apart, as some of my favorite earbuds can (Blox TM7, Sennheiser MX980, Aiwa HP-D9, Celsus Gramo One, Sony MDR E252, 282 & 484). The good thing is that while many of the earbud models that I mention are either discontinued or cost a lot, the Tomahawks are relatively cheap.


  


> Originally Posted by *diavolo rosso* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> how does it compare with tomahawk?


 

 I wonder that as well! And where can I find them? Didn't find them on Taobao. Hope they show up on Aliexpress...


----------



## golov17

Well, guys. I spent two days listening to Nancy Wilson with the new Asura, and I'm still in shock .. It is the best earbuds in terms of price / quality! For me. IMHO


----------



## ozkan

I'm getting my Zen 2.0 tomorrow. Very excited to hear them!


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> Well, guys. I spent two days listening to Nancy Wilson with the new Asura, and I'm still in shock .. It is the best earbuds in terms of price / quality! For me. IMHO




Moreso than the zen?
I didn't end up buying an asura or zen. Keep having 2nd thoughts about spending that much on buds.


----------



## Decommo

@Danneq THANK YOU SO MUCH for such a detailed feedback. It was very helpful..


----------



## rudi0504

danneq said:


> I haven't heard the Asura 2.0. Overall, I would say that Zen 2.0 has got deeper bass and a fuller sound than the Tomahawks. Quite amazing lows for a pair of earbuds. The Zen 2.0 has got a wide soundstage with good detail. Highs are okay. My slight problem with the Zen 2.0 is that the focus is a bit too strong on lows. I used to love my Yuin PK2 because of their mids, but now I have recently sold them.
> 
> Perhaps I'm getting older, but I prefer a good balance between lows, mids and highs with no special focus on any of them. This combined with an open soundstage and good detail and instrument separation.
> 
> ...




Thank you for very nice comparison between Tomahawk with other ear buds.
My Impression more or less like what you already mentioned above.

Tomahawk vs Ting 
If you like Tomahawk , you will love Ting more .
Timg is nore refine and has fuller sound compare Tomahawk.

Has wider and deeper aoundstage .

After i heard Ting , Tomahawk sound a bit harsh to me.

This is at the level from my Yuin PK1.
Ting and Yuin PK1 clarity is better than my VE Zen v1 330 Ohm.


----------



## Decommo

Where can we purchase Ting earbud? I found Tomahawk on Aliexpress but could not find Ting earbud.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

decommo said:


> Where can we purchase Ting earbud? I found Tomahawk on Aliexpress but could not find Ting earbud.


 

 I think you meant 
  
 ..


----------



## Decommo

Yes. I could not find any online store selling Ting earbud.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Moreso than the zen?
> I didn't end up buying an asura or zen. Keep having 2nd thoughts about spending that much on buds.


 Zen for bass lovers, Asura for vocal lovers, IMHO


----------



## AudioNewbi3

decommo said:


> Yes. I could not find any online store selling Ting earbud.


 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-12351271510.43.I9lMoR&id=522773400641
  
 here you go. It is made by the same the person who made the Tomahawks. (If I am not mistaken)


----------



## golov17

I think that this is all purely individual musical taste and personal preferences in sound, synergy with your sources and personal musical tastes. Ideal earbuds for all does not exist. Take everything with a grain of salt.


----------



## rudi0504

decommo said:


> Where can we purchase Ting earbud? I found Tomahawk on Aliexpress but could not find Ting earbud.




I bought from my friend locally in Indonesia


----------



## Decommo

@AudioNewbi3 Thank you very much. I checked and I just could not understand Chinese even if I use google translate. i will just wait for it to be available on Aliexpress since I have account with Aliexpress. Thank you very much Again.


----------



## Decommo

@rudi0504 Do you prefer Ting earbud over VE Zen 2.0?
  
 If I understood correctly, VE Zen 2.0 has deeper bass, a fuller sound and wider sound stage than Tomahawk but Zen 2.0 has focus a bit too strong on lows. 
 On the other hand, Tomahawk has good balance & great instrument separation.
  
 How about Ting against Zen 2.0? Is Ting more focus on lows like Zen 2.0? 
  
 Love to hear your thoughts. Thank you.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Okay so overall which earbud is the best for the price,

 Asura 2.0, Tomahawk, OR M1N VX? 

 All 3 earbuds are priced about the same.


----------



## music4mhell

Just for curiosity,
  
 I ordered JVC gummy bud ($10) and AWEI earbud ($4)..
 I am super disappoint with JVC Gummy, it has ZERO bass, literally ZERO bass. Waste of $10. I will never buy any JVC in my this life and next life too.
  
 But AWEI is awesome, i feel it's the best value for money earbud. At $4, damn i couldn't believe the sound clarity, quality and bass i was getting.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

music4mhell said:


> AWEI is awesome, i feel it's the best value for money earbud. At $4, damn i couldn't believe the sound clarity, quality and bass i was getting.


 
  
 The AWEI ES10 is what got me into earbuds.  I was blown away on how good they sounded for the price.
  
 That said, I gave all of them away once I upgraded to some other budget earbuds like the Suvov S10/S20 or VE Monk.
  
  
 --


----------



## music4mhell

bloodypenguin said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > AWEI is awesome, i feel it's the best value for money earbud. At $4, damn i couldn't believe the sound clarity, quality and bass i was getting.
> ...


 
 I have ordered VE ZEn 2.0, Monk, Mrice, Jiushao E300.. everything is in transit 
 So couldn't resist myself, and ordered those earbuds which are available in India.
  
 I am thinking of ordering Tomahawk earbud now...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Got a few new earbuds.  Still testing them out, but here are my quick thoughts:
  
  
*Suvov MX360* on the Left   ---------------  *BENJIE BJ-49* on the Right
  

  
  
 The *Suvov MX360 *has an interesting design and fit.  I actually found wearing them backwards (Right in Left and Left in Right) provides the clearest sound.  Bass seems decently neutral with equal sub-bass and mid-bass, Mids seem just a bit veil while still detailed enough and Highs are rolled off early, giving the earbuds a relaxed sound signature.  The MX360, like the S10/S20 has a J Cord that is shorter than most.  I found the 3.5mm plug does show signs of static if moved in the source.
  

  
  
  
  
 The *BENJIE BJ-49* is a decent budget earbud as well.  Tight Controlled Bass, ever so slightly recessed mids and tame highs.  Enjoyable sound, though no where near my favorite.  The housing and cable look good from far away, but show some blemishes up close.  It has a Y cord that is feels good and a good length. 
  

  
  
  
 --


----------



## AudioNewbi3

audionewbi3 said:


> Okay so overall which earbud is the best for the price,
> 
> Asura 2.0, Tomahawk, OR M1N VX?
> 
> All 3 earbuds are priced about the same.


 
 TOMAHAWK vs ASURA 2.0? anyone? Who have these 2 buds?


----------



## rggz

golov17 said:


> Zen for bass lovers, Asura for vocal lovers, IMHO


 

 Treble-head here, definitely Asura is my sweet spot now, atm my earbud for vocals still mrice E100 and because I like how they renderize cymbals with a really good extension and speed. Does Asura 2 make these things better?


----------



## golov17

rggz said:


> Treble-head here, definitely Asura is my sweet spot now, atm my earbud for vocals still mrice E100 and because I like how they renderize cymbals with a really good extension and speed. Does Asura 2 make these things better?


 Try AKG K319


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> TOMAHAWK vs ASURA 2.0? anyone? Who have these 2 buds?


 

 If someone is willing to buy my Zen 2.0 with Monks as bonus for a little over $100 with registered shipping (only about 20 hours of use on the Zens), I would be happy to buy the Asura 2.0...
  


golov17 said:


> Try AKG K319


 

 Pretty good earbuds, but now they are difficult to find for resonable prices since they have been discontinued for a few years...


----------



## Saoshyant

@Danneq I'd be tempted if I haven't just spent around $800 on gear in the past week...  still, that's really tempting.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> If someone is willing to buy my Zen 2.0 with Monks as bonus for a little over $100 with registered shipping (only about 20 hours of use on the Zens), I would be happy to buy the Asura 2.0...
> 
> 
> Pretty good earbuds, but now they are difficult to find for resonable prices since they have been discontinued for a few years...


 
 So this means, in your book, the Tomahawk has already won over you eh?


----------



## golov17

You do not need to sell the Zen, you can change the damping by means of rubber rings on Senns, one rear bass port closed.


----------



## golov17

I think of the many new experiences from many new earbuds, you can not appreciate the taste Zen2.0. Try to only Zen use them for a week, and then you can sell if you want ..


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> So this means, in your book, the Tomahawk has already won over you eh?


 


 Well, the Asura 2.0 sounds very tempting and might fit my tastes better than Zen 2.0. I cannot afford much now and to buy the Asura I would have to sell off some stuff...

 Too many different earbuds. Too little money...


----------



## golov17

Because, at first, I had similar thoughts, and I wrote an indignant letter to Lee, but he laughed and said, wait, brother, and you love them. Now I listen to them more than 700 hours, and forced to admit that the Lee was right


----------



## fleasbaby

danneq said:


> Well, the Asura 2.0 sounds very tempting and might fit my tastes better than Zen 2.0. I cannot afford much now and to buy the Asura I would have to sell off some stuff...
> 
> Too many different earbuds. Too little money...


 
  
 I am about 16 hours into burn-in for my Asura 2.0. They definitely aren't the Zen. They are maybe the anti-Zen? Sound is tight and lively. They appeal very much to the Grado-fan in me...
  
 I felt the same way when I compared the Sennheiser HD650 and my collection of Grados...
  
 If you go for the Asura 2.0, and if you still listen to a lot of Metal (I recall you mentioning this somewhere...), I suspect you'll enjoy the Asura more...I suspect anyway. YMMV.


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> Because, at first, I had similar thoughts, and I wrote an indignant letter to Lee, but he laughed and said, wait, brother, and you love them. Now I listen to them more than 700 hours, and forced to admit that the Lee was right


 
  
  
 700 hours!?!?

 I listen perhaps 3-4 hours a day to music and not only the Zens. Then I'd have to wait perhaps 2-3 years.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I'll try to block one of the bass ports in the rear.

 I want to try to focus only on the earbuds that I like and use (except for vintage Sony and Aiwa that are sort of collector's items) and then I can sell off stuff that I will not use. I have already listed the Hifiman ES100 that I bought around the same time as the Zen 2.0. They are pretty good, but not the droids that I'm looking for...


  


fleasbaby said:


> I am about 16 hours into burn-in for my Asura 2.0. They definitely aren't the Zen. They are maybe the anti-Zen? Sound is tight and lively. They appeal very much to the Grado-fan in me...
> 
> I felt the same way when I compared the Sennheiser HD650 and my collection of Grados...
> 
> If you go for the Asura 2.0, and if you still listen to a lot of Metal (I recall you mentioning this somewhere...), I suspect you'll enjoy the Asura more...I suspect anyway. YMMV.


 

 I mainly listen to prog rock and metal, and love me some nice cymbal work. While I don't like overly bright head- and earphones, I do like it when the top end has got a nice "shine" to it...


----------



## golov17

Right now with my Zen2.0


----------



## fleasbaby

danneq said:


> 700 hours!?!?
> 
> I listen perhaps 3-4 hours a day to music and not only the Zens. Then I'd have to wait perhaps 2-3 years.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I switched to full foams this morning (was using donuts before) and that made the treble a little less fizzy on the Asura 2.0.
  
 Regarding trying to keep the collection under control, I understand...I just cleared out 3 pairs of over-ears and am still sitting on another three. I need to root through my earbuds and the few IEMs I have and do the same again...it starts to just feel wasteful.


----------



## Danneq

Yeah, I've got over 30 pairs of earbuds and want to come down to "only" around 20. But it's difficult since there seem to be a lot of new ones coming out right now (Ostry KC08, Dunu Alpha 1 etc etc)...

 At least I have reduced my headphones to only two pairs (ATH ES10 & Sennheiser HD25).


----------



## Raketen

danneq said:


> Yeah, I've got over 30 pairs of earbuds and want to come down to "only" around 20. But it's difficult since there seem to be a lot of new ones coming out right now (Ostry KC08, Dunu Alpha 1 etc etc)...
> 
> At least I have reduced my headphones to only two pairs (ATH ES10 & Sennheiser HD25).


 






 Sold HD25?!  *derp, total misunderstanding*
  
 Those are the last thing sold, just before my soul (Well, my pair are broken right now so maybe... but I am total hypocrite anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## vapman

I've been regretting selling my Senn HD25-1 II for the last couple years.


----------



## Danneq

raketen said:


> Sold HD25?!  Those are the last thing sold, just before my soul (Well, my pair are broken right now so maybe... but I am total hypocrite anyway
> 
> 
> 
> ...





No no. I mean that I sold all my headphones except for ATH ES10 and HD25.

I do prefer the ES10, and have briefly thought of selling the HD25, but I will probably stick with them.

Anyway, I'll keep my focus to earbuds now that more and more good ones are being released.


----------



## Raketen

Oh lol... totally misread that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Panic averted. Order Restored.
  
 Don't reallly have room in my life for open-backed headphones atm, so I find the Zen 2 are a nice compact compromise when I don't need isolation. Only problem is now I want Asura and Monk too. so much for compactness...


----------



## Decommo

Wow, many people like HD-25. I sold my almost new Amperior because clamping force is too high and it is not getting used much.
  
 This got me interested in ear bud since I do not like ear tips going inside my ear canal.
 I am just waiting for anyone's impression on KC 08 and Ting by Mr Z Music maker, and purchase VE Asura or any one of those two new ones.
  
 Has anyone has KC08 or Ting by Mr Z by any chance ?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

@ClieOS  Is the *湖西小筑 earbuds  * still a good buy after all this times?

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5-c.w4002-1246925529.31.Ri8uHq&id=37119460429


----------



## Danneq

decommo said:


> Has anyone has KC08 or Ting by Mr Z by any chance ?


 

 I don't think anyone has both of them...


----------



## diavolo rosso

fleasbaby said:


> I am about 16 hours into burn-in for my Asura 2.0. They definitely aren't the Zen. They are maybe the anti-Zen? Sound is tight and lively. *They appeal very much to the Grado-fan* in me...
> 
> I felt the same way when I compared the Sennheiser HD650 and my collection of Grados...
> 
> If you go for the Asura 2.0, and if you still listen to a lot of Metal (I recall you mentioning this somewhere...), I suspect you'll enjoy the Asura more...I suspect anyway. YMMV.


 
  
 That's interesting. I'm Grado fan too. And I'm looking for earbud that sound like Grado.
 Have you ever tried Tomahawk and PK2?
  
  
 How does Asura 2.0 compare with Tomahawk and PK2?


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> @ClieOS  Is the *湖西小筑 earbuds  * still a good buy after all this times?
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5-c.w4002-1246925529.31.Ri8uHq&id=37119460429


 
  
 If neutral is your thing, sure.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> If neutral is your thing, sure.




Hoho. DIY it is then! Btw, is there a diff between the normal wire and upgrade wire?


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> Hoho. DIY it is then! Btw, is there a diff between the normal wire and upgrade wire?


 
  
 Dunno, I only have the upgraded cable.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Dunno, I only have the upgraded cable.




Alright, thanks for the reply


----------



## Decommo

@Danneq Thank you for your response. Yes, I guess that KC08 is still very new and just started selling to market this month so could not find any review as yet. Ting earbuds by Mr Z music maker is also no review as yet as far as I am aware of. I might wait for reviews from others on those two earbuds and pull the trigger. Zen 2.0 might not be ideal for me since it has too high impedance but Asura 2.0, KC08 and Ting should be fine. So many choices and hard to make decision.....


----------



## Danneq

The only mention of Musicmaker Ting I've seen is the link that golov17 posted. And it seems like it is only available on Taobao. It's not impossible to buy from there if you are not Chinese. There are different Taobao agents.

 I have contacted Easy Earphone on Aliexpress, who's selling Musicmaker Tomahawk, and asked if it's possible for them to sell the Ting. Perhaps if more people do it, they might start selling the Ting?

 And you should consider the Tomahawk. Great sounding for a relatively low price (okay, not $5 like the Monks, but that price is just ridiculous!)

 As to the Ostry KC08, I'm still waiting for the first review of it on Head fi...


----------



## Decommo

rudi0504 said:


> Thank you for very nice comparison between Tomahawk with other ear buds.
> My Impression more or less like what you already mentioned above.
> 
> Tomahawk vs Ting
> ...


 
@Danneq  This quote got me interested in Ting earbud.   And you beat me on it that I was going to contact Easy Earphone to find out if they can source Ting earbud and I found that they are away for Lunar New year and will be back 20th Feb. Might need to wait till then.  Tomahawk is definitely on the list to purchase.


----------



## kenman345

Do the Zen 2.0 benefit from Burn In? I just got my pair and listening with a Mojo at work and its quite nice. Feeling satisfied with the purchase but they are brand new and wondering if they will perhaps get better with age like most of my other headphones


----------



## fleasbaby

diavolo rosso said:


> That's interesting. I'm Grado fan too. And I'm looking for earbud that sound like Grado.
> Have you ever tried Tomahawk and PK2?
> 
> 
> How does Asura 2.0 compare with Tomahawk and PK2?


 
  
 I had the PK 2 years ago. If memory serves me correctly, the Asura 2.0 is clearer, more articulate. I've never heard the Tomahawk...


----------



## fleasbaby

kenman345 said:


> Do the Zen 2.0 benefit from Burn In? I just got my pair and listening with a Mojo at work and its quite nice. Feeling satisfied with the purchase but they are brand new and wondering if they will perhaps get better with age like most of my other headphones


 
  
 They do indeed age well...burn-in helps them.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

danneq said:


> The only mention of Musicmaker Ting I've seen is the link that golov17 posted. And it seems like it is only available on Taobao. It's not impossible to buy from there if you are not Chinese. There are different Taobao agents.


 
  
 I use: www.mistertao.com all the time for a Taobao Agent.  Their fees and shipping are priced well.  They will also reply to all requests (though it may take a few days).
  
 ..


----------



## XipeTotec

Hello, I would like to try EarBell E100 but does someone knows the difference between this:
  
 http://www.amazon.com/BALDOOR-Earphone-Durable-Headphone-Laptops/dp/B00K75XZQE?tag=vglnk-c294-20
  
 that seems the original one
  
 and this:
  
 http://www.amazon.com/GranVela-Fidelity-Earphones-Designed-Resistance/dp/B00O0I384I/ref=pd_sim_sbs_107_2?ie=UTF8&dpID=31uwYW4GLDL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=15THHM859JG975H7DMNX
  
 Price is the same. But the second one has a lot of good reviews compared to the first one (namely, the original one).


----------



## golov17

xipetotec said:


> Hello, I would like to try EarBell E100 but does someone knows the difference between this:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/BALDOOR-Earphone-Durable-Headphone-Laptops/dp/B00K75XZQE?tag=vglnk-c294-20
> 
> ...



Lol


----------



## golov17

Mrice e100 better than Baldoor, IMHO


----------



## XipeTotec

golov17 said:


> Mrice e100 better than Baldoor, IMHO


 
 sound signature, build quality or both?
 btw, 9 bucks ahah. what store is that?


----------



## golov17

xipetotec said:


> sound signature, build quality or both?
> btw, 9 bucks ahah. what store is that?


 Norm prices on Aliexpress, good earbuds, try this


----------



## XipeTotec

golov17 said:


> Norm prices on Aliexpress, good earbuds, try this


 
 ill check tem out thank you


----------



## ozkan

golov17 said:


> Mrice e100 better than Baldoor, IMHO




What's the difference between Mrice and Baldoor?


----------



## golov17

More balanced sound sig, IMHO


----------



## Tarnum

@ozkan: it's totally different by cases. I think there can be difference in Baldoor / Mrice and also the difference of production batches.
 My current best pair are Baldoor one, has fuller sound with deeper & more impact bass, more forward & mid, as well as more coherent sound. Recently, I ordered 4-5 pairs of E100 for my friends, 1 of them are Baldoor and the others are Mrice. They cannot reach the same tier of my best pair. Actually, they just fall a little bit behind VE Monk.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Guys, I want to ask a question.
  
 I was listening to music from my XduooX3===>Miu Audio MRA amplifier. Being the idiot that I am, I decided to swtich the gain from low to high while the music was still playing. Midway through flipping the gain switch, the amp went hey-wire and suddenly produced a loud white noise on the right channel.
  
 This resulted in my BugBro 320Ohms earbud having a sudden spike in volume on the right earpiece. I immediately took off the buds and switched off the amp.
  
 My question is, will a sudden spike in volume destroy the driver of the buds, or more specifically, will sudden loud volumes over a short period/burst of time damage any form of headphone/earphones?


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> Guys, I want to ask a question.
> 
> I was listening to music from my XduooX3===>Miu Audio MRA amplifier. Being the idiot that I am, I decided to swtich the gain from low to high while the music was still playing. Midway through flipping the gain switch, the amp went hey-wire and suddenly produced a loud white noise on the right channel.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Depends on how fragile the diaphragm and voice coil are. Just plug it back in and listen normally. If you didn't hear anything out of the normal, then you are usually fine. Typically higher ohm headphone is more resilience to sudden loud burst.
  
 It is also a good practice to remember not to change gain on-the-fly and if you must do it, lower the volume first.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Depends on how fragile the diaphragm and voice coil are. Just plug it back in and listen normally. If you didn't hear anything out of the normal, then you are usually fine. Typically higher ohm headphone is more resilience to sudden loud burst.
> 
> It is also a good practice to remember not to change gain on-the-fly and if you must do it, lower the volume first.


 
 Thanks for the reply! I shall give them a good listen and see if anything is out of the ordinary. Hopefully nothing


----------



## apmusson

fleasbaby said:


> They do indeed age well...burn-in helps them.




I agree. They also respond very well to good amplification.


----------



## golov17

15 mm, light and comfortable, 32 Ohm, 101dB, low bass, vocal forward, soft sound, warm. I like.. Without burn, first impression..


----------



## golov17

http://www.taobao.com/product/漫步者-h186p耳機.htm


----------



## Saoshyant

That's an interesting looking little DAP.  I completely forgot about the N2, assuming I'm recognizing that one correctly.  Always meant to give it a listen, but it never happened.


----------



## music4mhell

My VE ZEN 2.0 is coming tomorrow. I am so much excited. I will compare to my HD650.
  
 I have ordered VE MONK, Jiushao E300, Mrice E100, Edifier H190. All are on the way.
 I will compare every all soon .
  
 By the way how is OSTRY KC08 compare to VE ASSURA and Go Pro MrZ Tomahawk ?
 Thanks guys.


----------



## Decommo

Awesome. Love to hear your feedback on Zen 2.0.  I have ordered Mrice E100, VJJB C1S and another pair of Monk (back up pair) and they are all on its way. I am also waiting some impression or review on Ostry KC08 since I could not find any on web at the moment. in terms of look/appearance, KC08 look most attractive to me.


----------



## music4mhell

decommo said:


> Awesome. Love to hear your feedback on Zen 2.0.  I have ordered Mrice E100, VJJB C1S and another pair of Monk (back up pair) and they are all on its way. I am also waiting some impression or review on Ostry KC08 since I could not find any on web at the moment. in terms of look/appearance, KC08 look most attractive to me.


 
 I also want to hear your comments on VJJB C1S.
  
 By the way how is VE Assura compare to Tomahawk ?


----------



## chompy

golov17 said:


> 15 mm, light and comfortable, 32 Ohm, 101dB, low bass, vocal forward, soft sound, warm. I like.. Without burn, first impression..




Thanks, how you would compare them to H180 and H185?


----------



## golov17

chompy said:


> Thanks, how you would compare them to H180 and H185?


I crash my 180  

H185 has a bright sound, H186 matt, unlike brilliant 185. Some people do not like the excessive brightness, they may prefer a softer sound H186. It is difficult to explain more clearly ..


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> chompy said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks, how you would compare them to H180 and H185?
> ...


 
 Any idea how Edifier H190 sounds ?


----------



## golov17

I do not prefer H190, boring for me, sorry


----------



## ozkan

golov17 said:


> I do not prefer H190, boring for me, sorry




Is Monk still the best?


----------



## golov17

ozkan said:


> Is Monk still the best?


Maybe Monk, maybe Asura, maybe Zen, maybe Blox... etc


----------



## rggz

I'm just curious after see this picture, is MX985 manufactured in China or Germany? Did someone hear about fakes in this model?
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



*from this thread*


----------



## Saoshyant

rggz said:


> I'm just curious after see this picture, is MX985 manufactured in China or Germany? Did someone hear about fakes in this model?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Made in China


----------



## Danneq

Designed in Germany and made in China.

 Haven't heard of faked MX/OMX 980/985. Recently bought a pair of OMX980 for £45 of Ebay in an unopened box. Was a bit worried that they were fakes, but they aren't.


----------



## chompy

golov17 said:


> I crash my 180
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks, then it seems H186 highs are similar to H180, I'll keep then H185 as although as you say they are really bright I can easily adjust them wit hthe equalizer while H180 highs shortness is more difficult to adjust.


----------



## golov17

I'm not using eq, so I prefer H101 with thick foams


----------



## Decommo

Certainly. I will provide my impression on VJJB C1S once I get it.  I do not own Assura or Tomahawk so cannot comment. 


music4mhell said:


> decommo said:
> 
> 
> > Awesome. Love to hear your feedback on Zen 2.0.  I have ordered Mrice E100, VJJB C1S and another pair of Monk (back up pair) and they are all on its way. I am also waiting some impression or review on Ostry KC08 since I could not find any on web at the moment. in terms of look/appearance, KC08 look most attractive to me.
> ...


----------



## music4mhell

decommo said:


> Awesome. Love to hear your feedback on Zen 2.0.  I have ordered Mrice E100, VJJB C1S and another pair of Monk (back up pair) and they are all on its way. I am also waiting some impression or review on Ostry KC08 since I could not find any on web at the moment. in terms of look/appearance, KC08 look most attractive to me.


 
 Hello,
  
 Just now, i received the VE ZEN 2.0 with an VE MONK as a goody plus so many foams .
 I used Donut foam on both.
 Now come to sound quality, VE ZEN is almost equal to my HD650, i will say ZEN lacks a bit of tight bass impact. I am using ZEN with my CHord Mojo.
 VE Monk is ever green, i am gonna buy 5 more pieces of Monk.
  
 I have one question, how much burn in needed for VE ZEN ? Any idea guys ?


----------



## tgx78

music4mhell said:


> Hello,
> 
> Just now, i received the VE ZEN 2.0 with an VE MONK as a goody plus so many foams .
> I used Donut foam on both.
> ...


 
  
 Zen sounds too thick and warm with donut foam for me. Much clearer sounding without any foam covering it. Monk however sounds better with foam.
  
 Zen's driver settled down around 40-50 hours mark for me.
  
 In another note, I bought a pair of MEEaudio P1 today and it basically sounds like Zen 2.0 with better sub-bass extension.


----------



## music4mhell

tgx78 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Hello,
> ...


 
 But MEEaudio P1 is not a ear bud, it's an IEM.
 Thanks for the info on ZEN, i will write a detailed review and comparison after burn in.


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> But MEEaudio P1 is not a ear bud, it's an IEM.
> Thanks for the info on ZEN, i will write a detailed review and comparison after burn in.


Zen and Asura are configured to use without foams, so .. try this for better sound sig


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > But MEEaudio P1 is not a ear bud, it's an IEM.
> ...


 
 Thanks for the tips, i will use without foams then , i am just a newbie, so keep guiding me into Audiophile world


----------



## waynes world

music4mhell said:


> Thanks for the tips, i will use without foams then , i am just a newbie, so keep guiding me into Audiophile world




Yes, the consensus is zen 2.0 naked and the monk donutized. And btw, congrats!


----------



## music4mhell

waynes world said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the tips, i will use without foams then
> ...


 
 But i am feeling more good while wearing ZEN with the donut foam. May be because i am getting a bit more bass at low sound even and i am enjoying that extra bass at very low sound.


----------



## Saoshyant

I want to like the donuts, I really do, but they refuse to stay on, so it'll be full covers for me.


----------



## Raketen

Donuts, them things is tricky.


----------



## music4mhell

saoshyant said:


> I want to like the donuts, I really do, but they refuse to stay on, so it'll be full covers for me.


 
 True, it doesn't stick , i am back to naked again


----------



## yacobx

music4mhell said:


> saoshyant said:
> 
> 
> > I want to like the donuts, I really do, but they refuse to stay on, so it'll be full covers for me.
> ...


 
 The struggle is real. Foamless sounds so think but clean, full foam is so smooth but details become lost. and the donuts just dont stay on well. I just use a case with donuts so i dont loose them.


----------



## music4mhell

yacobx said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > saoshyant said:
> ...


 
 Hey share a pic, how did you use a case on Donut


----------



## rggz

danneq said:


> Designed in Germany and made in China.
> 
> Haven't heard of faked MX/OMX 980/985. Recently bought a pair of OMX980 for £45 of Ebay in an unopened box. Was a bit worried that they were fakes, but they aren't.


 

 Thanks for infos, now I feel relieved! I bought a pair of MX985 and was a bit worried too after see _"made in china_" but I didn't find anything about fake models on google, after see how level of detail this earbud has I'd imagine was not easy fake them.

 I changed to Monk donuts foams now I'm very happy with MX985. Btw, what earbud do you think make a good "contrast" with your Mx980?


----------



## Danneq

rggz said:


> Thanks for infos, now I feel relieved! I bought a pair of MX985 and was a bit worried too after see _"made in china_" but I didn't find anything about fake models on google, after see how level of detail this earbud has I'd imagine was not easy fake them.
> 
> I changed to Monk donuts foams now I'm very happy with MX985. Btw, what earbud do you think make a good "contrast" with your Mx980?


 
 Well, almost everything is made in China nowadays. I already have a pair of MX980 and I could compare the boxes and details on the earbuds (only the earhooks differ the OMX from the MX).

 For me, the sound that the (O)MX980 (and probably 985 as well) present is very close to my preference: natural sound with a relatively large soundstage, good bass respone (although the 980 is slightly slow sometimes with faster music), good details and instrument separation. Perhaps an earbud with a slightly leaner sound where more detail and instrument separation can be heard would be a good contrast?
 Ostry KC08 seems interesting and I'll buy that later. Musicmaker Ting (big brother of Musicmaker MrZ Tomahawk, that I like very much) seems very interesting as well.

 Astrotec Lyra has been discontinued but it was pretty good. You can still find the version with earhooks - Lyra6 - but apparently it sounds slightly different. Bass is a bit heavier on the Lyra6 because of added filters. I liked the analytic sound of the Lyra though...
 Celsus Gramo One is also more analytical than (O)MX980/985, but perhaps a bit too neutral. It is very very detailed, but a bit too flat for its own good. It's also the most expensive earbud sold right now - $249. Reduce the price by $100 and it will be more resonable...

 VE Asura seems interesting as well, with a focus on vocals. Or if you like bass and want something heavier than the MX985, how about the VE Zen 2.0?


----------



## rggz

danneq said:


> Well, almost everything is made in China nowadays. I already have a pair of MX980 and I could compare the boxes and details on the earbuds (only the earhooks differ the OMX from the MX).
> 
> VE Asura seems interesting as well, with a focus on vocals. Or if you like bass and want something heavier than the MX985, how about the VE Zen 2.0?


 

 Thanks again! You're right, I'm used to associate Sennheiser with "made in germany" my bad. 

 I never listen Zen 2 but I think it is developed for bass lovers, I'm not bass-head, just like more bass punchy without muddying up the mids or highs, however I enjoy more signatures with focus with clarity/speed on mids, not "bright" sound but with good extension on highs and open-back sensation, IMO I think those qualities make earbuds a big deal for me.

 Well from what you have said, I gonna try Asura 2. I was searching for TM7 but it's hard to find it, PK1 maybe overpriced for nowadays, Ostry KC08 seems a good deal but I no have idea how it sounds I hope read some review soon.


----------



## Raketen

rggz said:


> Thanks again! You're right, I'm used to associate Sennheiser with "made in germany" my bad.
> 
> I never listen Zen 2 but I think it is developed for bass lovers, I'm not bass-head, just like more bass punchy without muddying up the mids or highs, however I enjoy more signatures with focus with clarity/speed on mids, not "bright" sound but with good extension on highs and open-back sensation, IMO I think those qualities make earbuds a big deal for me.
> 
> Well from what you have said, I gonna try Asura 2. I was searching for TM7 but it's hard to find it, PK1 maybe overpriced for nowadays, Ostry KC08 seems a good deal but I no have idea how it sounds I hope read some review soon.


 
 Whenever people talk about Zen2's bass I think it needs to be qualified with "for an earbud"  because in practice it is not at all a basshead type of level- though affected by fit and it will sound a little more or less bassy depending on how tightly it sits against your ears or if you're using foams.


----------



## Danneq

rggz said:


> Thanks again! You'r[COLOR=0C0C0C]e [/COLOR][COLOR=181818]right,[/COLOR] I'm used to associate Sennheiser with "made in germany" my bad.
> 
> 
> I never listen Zen 2 but I think it is developed for bass lovers, I'm not bass-head, just like more bass punchy without muddying up the mids or highs, however I enjoy more signatures with focus with clarity/speed on mids, not "bright" sound but with good extension on highs and open-back sensation, IMO I think those qualities make earbuds a big deal for me.
> ...




Regarding PK1, there is a massdrop where you can get it for $115 as the cheapest without shipping. That's a good price.


----------



## yacobx

has anyone tried the HCK MX1??????
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-Newest-HCK-MX1-In-Ear-Earphone-BA-Double-Unit-Headphone-HIFI-Fever-DIY-Headset-As/32591304629.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.1.9nRKOE&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_1,searchweb201644_1_505_506_503_504_502_10014_10001_10002_10017_10010_10005_10011_10006_10003_10004_10009_10008_9999,searchweb201560_1,searchweb1451318400_-1,searchweb1451318411_6448&btsid=ce387bb5-7008-4f70-924d-3a72cb495209


----------



## golov17

yacobx said:


> has anyone tried the HCK MX1??????
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-Newest-HCK-MX1-In-Ear-Earphone-BA-Double-Unit-Headphone-HIFI-Fever-DIY-Headset-As/32591304629.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.1.9nRKOE&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_1,searchweb201644_1_505_506_503_504_502_10014_10001_10002_10017_10010_10005_10011_10006_10003_10004_10009_10008_9999,searchweb201560_1,searchweb1451318400_-1,searchweb1451318411_6448&btsid=ce387bb5-7008-4f70-924d-3a72cb495209


 Silver Tomahawk Mr Z?


----------



## yacobx

golov17 said:


> yacobx said:
> 
> 
> > has anyone tried the HCK MX1??????
> ...


 
 Im confused by what you meant?


----------



## golov17

Similar products from other sellers, no?


----------



## yacobx

golov17 said:


> Similar products from other sellers, no?


 

 oooooooooohhhhhh yes


----------



## munchzilla

Hi, sorry for being a bit lazy but I am looking at trying an earbud due to problems with comfort for IEMs.
  
 I like a good forward midrange, detailed but "full", and a bass that adds some warmth (doesn't have to be super sub bass, as I understand that is virtually impossible with earbuds).
 highs, not sibilant, and not peaky.
  
 budget? none yet, would like to see my options and how you folks value them first 
  
 Cheers!


----------



## golov17

munchzilla said:


> Hi, sorry for being a bit lazy but I am looking at trying an earbud due to problems with comfort for IEMs.
> 
> I like a good forward midrange, detailed but "full", and a bass that adds some warmth (doesn't have to be super sub bass, as I understand that is virtually impossible with earbuds).
> highs, not sibilant, and not peaky.
> ...


Ve Asura2.0


----------



## Danneq

munchzilla said:


> Hi, sorry for being a bit lazy but I am looking at trying an earbud due to problems with comfort for IEMs.
> 
> I like a good forward midrange, detailed but "full", and a bass that adds some warmth (doesn't have to be super sub bass, as I understand that is virtually impossible with earbuds).
> highs, not sibilant, and not peaky.
> ...




Yuin PK2 is an older earbud, released almost 10 years ago, that can still compete with current earbud models. They got great mids, ok bass (more texture than fullness) and overall a very airy sound. They are still a good place to start. You can find them from around $40. Compared to current earbuds they might be a bit overpriced. There was recently a massdrop for the PK2 and the price was around $25. That's quite good.
My current favorite (although not all time favorite) is the Musicmaker MrZ Tomahawk. You can mainly find that for sale on Aliexpress. Bass is textured but still quite full. Mids are not as great as on the PK2 but sill very good and detailed. Highs can be slightly sharp sometimes but not sibilant. Detail on the Tomahawk is exquisite.
Asura 2.0 seem to be popuilar among vocal lovers so that could also be an alternative.


----------



## munchzilla

golov17 said:


> Ve Asura2.0



Cool!
I was looking at these but I would like to find more reviews.
I saw a rough measurement of the Zen? and it had a very big scooped out midrange- if the Asura shares the same midrange then I don't think they would be for me, but would have to confirm of course. 
Do you happen to have either of these at hand/or both?
And would be able to confirm?

Thank you!

I would like to avoid harsh sibilance, but the Pk2 do seem intriguing even if they are older. 
Is there anyone who has any reliable measurements for earbud FR? I can't imagine it being easy to measure.


----------



## golov17

There are owners?


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> Oh! Same company that makes the Tomahawk! The Ting has got the same housing as the Tomahawk, but silver or white instead of black. The front grill is different than on the Tomahawk. I wonder if this is a lower or higher level earbud than the Tomahawk. Must be higher since it competes with the Zen 1.0...
> 
> 
> I feel as excited now as in the old Blox days when the TM7 was announced!


 http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/522773400641.html


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> There are owners?




I own a pair of ATH CM7, which is the same as the as EC7 but without earhooks. I think they are the best Audio Technica earbuds. Balanced sound with a big soundstage. Recommended if you can find a pair for less than $100 used. Well, around $70 would be more resonable...

A review of EC7 with comparisons to B&O A8.





Spoiler: ATH CM7 photo (not mine)


----------



## Raketen

Quote:


danneq said:


> I own a pair of ATH CM7, which is the same as the as EC7 but without earhooks. I think they are the best Audio Technica earbuds. Balanced sound with a big soundstage. Recommended if you can find a pair for less than $100 used. Well, around $70 would be more resonable...
> 
> A review of EC7 with comparisons to B&O A8.


 
  
 Not sure how they compare but I have a pair of CM707 which I think are the successor to those- I'd sell for a little more than the cost of shipping if the asker wants to try them out- though like Clie's OP notes say, can sound veiled sometimes with foams, without a little peaky (honestly after hearing Zen, I'd guess Asura is probably a better bet than 707).


----------



## golov17

raketen said:


> Not sure how they compare but I have a pair of CM707 which I think are the successor to those- I'd sell for a little more than the cost of shipping if the asker wants to try them out- though like Clie's OP notes say, can sound veiled sometimes with foams, without a little peaky (honestly after hearing Zen, I'd guess Asura is probably a better bet than 707).


I had 707 at the beginning of the sales, and I gave them to a friend, not my cup of tea, unfortunately...
 I spend $150, lol


----------



## Raketen

golov17 said:


> I had 707 at the beginning of the sales, and I gave them to a friend, not my cup of tea, unfortunately...
> I spend $150, lol


 






ouch! Guess I got lucky, mine were much cheaper- first earbud I've had since original iPod and sansa clip- they were good enough to convince me an earbud like Zen 2 was worth buying, but now I hardly use them.


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> I had 707 at the beginning of the sales, and I gave them to a friend, not my cup of tea, unfortunately...
> I spend $150, lol


 

 Well, the EC7 & CM7 were released around 10 years ago and then replaced by the EC700 & CM700 around 2009 or 2010.

 I bought my pair of CM7 for £56 + £10 shipping on Ebay in 2012 from a UK seller. He had received the pair from a representative of ATH and had never really used them and they appear to be quite genuine.

 They are old and have been discontinued for perhaps 7 years so if they are genuine $150 is not too much. If they are in a good condition. They do sound very good and is a top level earbud.

 However, there seem to be fakes of ATH earbuds, so especially if you buy from China there is a risk of getting a fake.


----------



## Danneq

raketen said:


> Not sure how they compare but I have a pair of CM707 which I think are the successor to those- I'd sell for a little more than the cost of shipping if the asker wants to try them out- though like Clie's OP notes say, can sound veiled sometimes with foams, without a little peaky (honestly after hearing Zen, I'd guess Asura is probably a better bet than 707).





I think that CM7/EC7 was released around 2005. Then replaced by CM700/EC700 around 2009. Then by CM707 around 2011 (if I remember correctly). Apparently, the sound of ATHs 7xx series has become slightly "worse" by each release. CM700 is very clear, but the soundstage is not tall at all. It is wide and deep, but not tall. It doesn't go over your head, but ends around your eyebrows, if you know that I mean... CM7 is much better overall. I haven't heard 707, but after reading reviews and impressions of it, I won't take a chance...


----------



## golov17

Radically changed AT signature (CM707)
For new EC7 want $86


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> Radically changed AT signature (CM707)
> For new EC7 want $86




Oh, then I misunderstood. You paid $150 for CM707!?!? It costs around 6000 yen in Japan and that should be around $70.

$86 for a pair of EC7, if they are genuine, is a good deal.

And I have to correct the history of the ATH earbuds. Apparently the CM700 was available for sale in 2006, so the CM7 must be even older...

CM7 vs CM700 - thread from 2006

Review of the CM7


----------



## golov17

Yes, at the beginning of sales was MSRP 707 $150, MPSR EC7 $250


----------



## Raketen

danneq said:


> I think that CM7/EC7 was released around 2005. Then replaced by CM700/EC700 around 2009. Then by CM707 around 2011 (if I remember correctly). Apparently, the sound of ATHs 7xx series has become slightly "worse" by each release. CM700 is very clear, but the soundstage is not tall at all. It is wide and deep, but not tall. It doesn't go over your head, but ends around your eyebrows, if you know that I mean... CM7 is much better overall. I haven't heard 707, but after reading reviews and impressions of it, I won't take a chance...


 

 yeah, I'm not the most sensitive to soundstage but this sounds about right for 707 too, without depth maybe - been listening without foams this morning and compared to zen2 I'd say 707 has a little more open feeling and a wider sound with more clear seperation, but Zen 2 feels a lot more enveloping, though neither to me has an 'out of head' kind of sound (again, a little insensitive to this stuff).
  
 Sound-wise are actually kind of tough to compare because of the volume difference and such totally different signatures it takes my brain a lot of time to adjust and they each sound strange switching from one to the other lol. Again without foams i'm actually liking 707 more than I remembered after using Zen2 as my only earbud for a few months- Z2's def a bit warmer/softer in a good way (I hadn't even noticed this before, it's only in direct comparison to 707 I can say this), even though I'm a bit trebleheaded, but with vox maybe a touch too soft- 707's vocals can sound more realistic/impactful, to me, but it also has the weird unevenness in mids & treble where it can sound sort of both a little peaky and veiled/scooped-out at the same time, whereas Zen is just a lot more consistent.
  
 Overall though, with some brain burn in 707 is decent... cost me $47 or something last year, which is ~ 1/3 price of Zen2 so not such a bad deal, but there are probably better options- I skipped all the budget stuff so kinda missed out I think.


----------



## golov17

Now discount on the silver Tomahawk


----------



## Arvan

Can anyone give me a recommendation for a bud that has a much brighter sound than the Monk? I do like the monk but it is way to thick for me. I want a balanced sound with emphasis on detail. I mostly have "monitor" style headphones and i do enjoy that signature the most.


----------



## Danneq

arvan said:


> Can anyone give me a recommendation for a bud that has a much brighter sound than the Monk? I do like the monk but it is way to thick for me. I want a balanced sound with emphasis on detail. I mostly have "monitor" style headphones and i do enjoy that signature the most.




Musicmaker MrZ Tomahawk is a relatively cheap ($50) alternative. The overall sound is similar to the Monk's but better balance (deeper bass) and detail. Going from Monk to Tomahawk is like removing a thick blanket from a speaker. You can get the Tomahawk on Aliexpress. There is another Musicmaker earbud, Ting, which is supposed to be even more clear and detailed than Tomahawk. Right now you can only get it from Taobao and the price is around $80.

Other alternatives, that I have not heard, are Shozy Cygnus, VE Asura 2.0 and Ostry KC08.

If you are prepared to pay $249, Celsus Gramo One are very neutral and transparent with amazing detail. But I think that's $100 too much...


----------



## Zani004

golov17 said:


> http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/522773400641.html


 
  
*Struggling to decipher that persons thoughts. Anyone know what they said? Very interested in the Ting.*


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> Now discount on the silver Tomahawk


 
  
 I ordered one!  It has already been shipped.  I will post up my thoughts when I get it.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 --


----------



## AudioNewbi3

http://www.paiaudio.com/p_productShowEn.asp?id=147
  

 Anyone hear of them?


----------



## Zani004

audionewbi3 said:


> http://www.paiaudio.com/p_productShowEn.asp?id=147
> 
> 
> Anyone hear of them?


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/3-14-paiaudio-flat-earbuds/reviews/14043


----------



## AudioNewbi3

zani004 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/products/3-14-paiaudio-flat-earbuds/reviews/14043


 
 Nice. Thanks for the links mate!


----------



## Arvan

danneq said:


> Musicmaker MrZ Tomahawk is a relatively cheap ($50) alternative. The overall sound is similar to the Monk's but better balance (deeper bass) and detail. Going from Monk to Tomahawk is like removing a thick blanket from a speaker. You can get the Tomahawk on Aliexpress. There is another Musicmaker earbud, Ting, which is supposed to be even more clear and detailed than Tomahawk. Right now you can only get it from Taobao and the price is around $80.
> 
> Other alternatives, that I have not heard, are Shozy Cygnus, VE Asura 2.0 and Ostry KC08.
> 
> If you are prepared to pay $249, Celsus Gramo One are very neutral and transparent with amazing detail. But I think that's $100 too much...


 
 Thank you for the recommendations. i have had my eye on the KC08 for a while now. But it´s hard to find earbud reviews, yet alone on the kc08.


----------



## golov17




----------



## Decommo

Great. I contacted Easy Earphone on Aliexpress and they are also going to launch Ting earbud this week. (They meant to launch it yesterday but they got too much work and promised to launch it this coming week. Fingers Crossed.


----------



## golov17

This best for all buyers


----------



## Trzystatrzy

danneq said:


> munchzilla said:
> 
> 
> > Hi, sorry for being a bit lazy but I am looking at trying an earbud due to problems with comfort for IEMs.
> ...



Hey, where can I buy Pk2 for 40$?


----------



## Danneq

You csn find it for $45 here.


----------



## music4mhell

Hey Guys,
  
 Now i have the Zen 2.0, it's really good.
  
 Could give any alternative to Zen, not like upgrade but side grade wise at least ?


----------



## ozkan

music4mhell said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Now i have the Zen 2.0, it's really good.
> 
> Could give any alternative to Zen, not like upgrade but side grade wise at least ?




Asura 2.0?


----------



## music4mhell

ozkan said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Guys,
> ...


 
 Yes i am going to order Assura, but i don't feel that will be side grade, it will be a bit of downgrade to Zen.


----------



## golov17

ozkan said:


> Asura 2.0?


+1


----------



## yacobx

music4mhell said:


> ozkan said:
> 
> 
> > music4mhell said:
> ...




It's not a downgrade, it's just has better mids and highs but less bass. It is picky on what it likes but when you find the right song it is incredible!


----------



## Zani004

music4mhell said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Now i have the Zen 2.0, it's really good.
> 
> Could give any alternative to Zen, not like upgrade but side grade wise at least ?


 
 What about Ostry KC08?
 Don't know if they're at Zen's level, but the 320 ohm and 400 ohm models from Seahf.
 Another I'm interested in, but nobody seems to have is the Shozy Cygnus.


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> Yes i am going to order Assura, but i don't feel that will be side grade, it will be a bit of downgrade to Zen.


 

 I think it's an upgrade, but others might disagree: Sennheiser MX/OMX 980 or 985. The only problem is that it is discontinued and might be difficult to find. Fit is not ideal since they are pretty big so the OMX version with ear hooks might be better for some than the MX version without ear hooks...


----------



## golov17

Spoiler



http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up-update-april-25th-2015/1905#post_12222853


People, you are reading the topic generally, or only the latest posts ??


----------



## Decommo

Hello. Easy Earphone finally launched Mr Z Music Maker Ting Earbud. It is currently at $99 incl. shipping. I am checking with them if they can offer special discount for Head-Fi community. Will update if they agree to provide further discount. Here is the link, http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-Go-Pro-MrZ-Tomahawk-Music-Maker-Hifi-Earbuds-In-Ear-Earphone-Alloy-Tune-Earbuds-Such/519064_32611955603.html     Anyone interested?


----------



## yacobx

decommo said:


> Hello. Easy Earphone finally launched Mr Z Music Maker Ting Earbud. It is currently at $99 incl. shipping. I am checking with them if they can offer special discount for Head-Fi community. Will update if they agree to provide further discount. Here is the link, http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-Go-Pro-MrZ-Tomahawk-Music-Maker-Hifi-Earbuds-In-Ear-Earphone-Alloy-Tune-Earbuds-Such/519064_32611955603.html     Anyone interested?





If we get a discount I'm in!!


----------



## music4mhell

Thank for your inputs.
  
 So then, once i get this month salary 
  
 I will order :
  

Assura
Ostry KC 08
2016 Tomahwak
Cygnus earbud
  
 Feb 29, please come asap.


----------



## Decommo

yacobx said:


> decommo said:
> 
> 
> > Hello. Easy Earphone finally launched Mr Z Music Maker Ting Earbud. It is currently at $99 incl. shipping. I am checking with them if they can offer special discount for Head-Fi community. Will update if they agree to provide further discount. Here is the link, http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-Go-Pro-MrZ-Tomahawk-Music-Maker-Hifi-Earbuds-In-Ear-Earphone-Alloy-Tune-Earbuds-Such/519064_32611955603.html     Anyone interested?
> ...


 
  
 $85 including shipping to worldwide. I think that it is not a bad deal since Taobao is selling at around US$90. Just waiting for their discount coupon code and will post here to share with everyone.


----------



## Danneq

decommo said:


> $85 including shipping to worldwide. I think that it is not a bad deal since Taobao is selling at around US$90. Just waiting for their discount coupon code and will post here to share with everyone.


 


 Great! Too bad that I cannot buy them until March. I told Easy Earphone to keep a pair for me at the end of March!


----------



## Decommo

danneq said:


> decommo said:
> 
> 
> > $85 including shipping to worldwide. I think that it is not a bad deal since Taobao is selling at around US$90. Just waiting for their discount coupon code and will post here to share with everyone.
> ...


 
 No worries.  Easy Earphone told me that they cannot issue coupon since Aliexpress does not allow it but they will adjust the price once customer place an order so only $85 charged. Please refer below screenshot for their message.


----------



## apmusson

music4mhell said:


> My VE ZEN 2.0 is coming tomorrow. I am so much excited. I will compare to my HD650.
> 
> I have ordered VE MONK, Jiushao E300, Mrice E100, Edifier H190. All are on the way.
> I will compare every all soon .
> ...


 
  
 What did you think of the Xduoo with the Zen?  How does it compare to the Mojo IYO?


----------



## Saoshyant

@Danneq The cost of the MX985 is pretty inhibitive, a new one costing me $250 a couple months ago.  This was before I had heard about the Zen, so I doubt I'll go that route, at least for now.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

decommo said:


> Hello. Easy Earphone finally launched Mr Z Music Maker Ting Earbud. It is currently at $99 incl. shipping. I am checking with them if they can offer special discount for Head-Fi community. Will update if they agree to provide further discount. Here is the link, http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-Go-Pro-MrZ-Tomahawk-Music-Maker-Hifi-Earbuds-In-Ear-Earphone-Alloy-Tune-Earbuds-Such/519064_32611955603.html     Anyone interested?


 
  


decommo said:


> $85 including shipping to worldwide. I think that it is not a bad deal since Taobao is selling at around US$90. Just waiting for their discount coupon code and will post here to share with everyone.


 
  
 If anyone is hesitant about purchasing the Go Pro MrZ Tomahawk Music Maker Hifi Alloy Tune Earbuds, I have a pair already on order and will post up my thoughts when I get it in.
  
 --


----------



## Danneq

saoshyant said:


> @Danneq The cost of the MX985 is pretty inhibitive, a new one costing me $250 a couple months ago.  This was before I had heard about the Zen, so I doubt I'll go that route, at least for now.


 

 $250 is a bit over the top! I recently bought a pair of OMX980, the version with ear hooks, from Ebay UK for £52.50 with shipping included. However, that was probably from an old shop or something. The seller described them as shop returns, but the box was unopened and they were genuine.

 If you can find (O)MX 980/985 in good condition for $100-150, it's a good deal. $250 is too expensive even if liquid gold comes out of the earbuds...


----------



## Saoshyant

@Danneq Eh, it was basically a present, so it didn't really cost me anything.  From reading reviews it was very promising sounding for what I was after, so I decided why not.


----------



## Danneq

Well well. Still $250 is a bit too much. I paid the same for Celsus Gramo One, although I used a little more than $100 that I had received when I sold old headphones and DVD & Blu ray movies. So I really "only" paid $150 of my own money.


----------



## Saoshyant

@Danneq  I have no complaints personally.  And ultimately, price is kind of a person by person basis for whether it's worth it.  I've had a couple of what I'd consider amazing deals in this hobby, so splurging a little didn't bother me.


----------



## Danneq

What I mean is, that the best earbuds I've heard were the Blox TM7, which cost around $149, so that's sort of what I go by when judging prices.

 And you can get an earbud that sounds as good or better than Yuin PK3 (~$35) or PK2 (~$50) in the $5 VE Monks, so sometimes earbuds can be overpriced (and in rare cases, underpriced as in the case of the Monks).

 And of my recent purchases, I enjoy the Tomahawks ($45.50 after discounts) more than the Celsus Gramo One ($249).

 Well well... Difficult hobby this is, as Yoda would say...


----------



## golov17

> Well well... Difficult hobby this is, as Yoda would say...


----------



## Saoshyant

@Danneq I certainly understand the point you're trying to make, but I have no regrets in having the MX985, even if a better value could have been attained.  Then again, if I had been aware of it at the time, I probably would have gone for the Zen.   Although, I really do like how they sound on my Mojo!


----------



## Zani004

golov17 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I've read through every post. I don't remember the Seahf models, or the KC08, being compared to Zen, so I don't know where they stand in the pecking order. Also haven't seen anyone mention owning the Cygnus.


----------



## golov17

They are all in one in their right, a matter of personal preference and different the impedance for the amplifier, it's like, sometimes I choose the AKG, sometimes Senn, there is no "better" or "worse", lol. All of them are of high quality and comparable cost ..


----------



## Zani004

golov17 said:


> They are all in one in their right, a matter of personal preference and different the impedance for the amplifier, it's like, sometimes I choose the AKG, sometimes Senn, there is no "better" or "worse", lol. All of them are of high quality and comparable cost ..





> Yes, I know comparisons are tricky. But music4mhell was asking about earbuds at Zen's level. Have you heard the Cygnus, or read any opinions on it? The only real mentions of it said it was bright and detailed. Bright usually also means lacking in bass, which I wouldn't like.





>


----------



## golov17

If it were possible to make the perfect headphone for all in the top price segment, they would long ago would have been made. But it is not, it is a utopia.


----------



## golov17

Everyone with whom I spoke to in the headphones groups prefer Cygnus over kc08, if it helps ..


----------



## music4mhell

apmusson said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > My VE ZEN 2.0 is coming tomorrow. I am so much excited. I will compare to my HD650.
> ...


 
 If i give you an analogy :
  
 Mojo ~ Zen
 XDuoo X3 ~ Assura
  
 Difference is there, but not too big, X3 has Cirrius logic DAC chip, so you can't underestimate it's capability 
 Fyi . I am going to buy another XDuoo X3 as a gift to my brother with a good earbud like Assura/2016 Tomahawk/Cygnus/Ostry


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> Everyone with whom I spoke to in the headphones groups prefer Cygnus over kc08, if it helps ..




Damn it! I did not plan on buying Cygnus but I did plan on buying KC08. But I might have to buy Cygnus as well. Poor wallet!


----------



## Zani004

golov17 said:


> Everyone with whom I spoke to in the headphones groups prefer Cygnus over kc08, if it helps ..


 

 Yes, It helps me, but maybe not Danneq, lol.


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> Damn it! I did not plan on buying Cygnus but I did plan on buying KC08. But I might have to buy Cygnus as well. Poor wallet!


 I agree, it becomes ruinous hobby these days ..


----------



## music4mhell

How is "Celsus Sound - Gramo One" ? 
 It's quite expensive - $249 
  
 Any idea guys ?


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> How is "Celsus Sound - Gramo One" ?
> It's quite expensive - $249
> 
> Any idea guys ?




I bought a pair about 2 months ago. First I'd like to say that they are a bit overpriced. $149-199 would have been a better price for them. Build quality is good but not much better than other high end earbuds. When it comes to sound they can be described as small studio monitors. The sound is transparent and neutral. They are very detailed and you can easily make out different instruments. But they work best in a quiet environment. Overall they can sound a bit "boring" since they are so neutral. For example, I think that Tomahawk is almost as detailed but much more fun to listen to and you can get 5 Tomahawk for 1 Gramo One. Still, if you are an earbud collector as I am or if you want that neutral studio monitor type of sound, you might like Gramo One.


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > How is "Celsus Sound - Gramo One" ?
> ...


 
 Thanks a lot for your valuable inputs,
  
 So next month items are done:
  
 1st 2016 Tomahawk
 2nd Cygnus
 3rd Ostry KC 08
  
 Rest for next month


----------



## supplehope

Getting a Ostry KC08 soon somewhere around mid March. Heard @ClieOS's pair and I immediately liked the sound. More impression about them to come.


----------



## music4mhell

Just received Jiushao E300, well it's a nice earbud with forward sound, but bass is not that much tight and sound is a bit thinner compare to Monk.


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> Thanks a lot for your valuable inputs,
> 
> So next month items are done:
> 
> ...




Here's a good review of the Gramo One

Another one

Are you buying the newly posted Musicmaker earbud from Easy Earphones on Aliexpress? It must be Ting and not Tomahawk. The one for $99 is Ting. Easy Earphone must have made a mistake with the name of the earbuds. The one for $50 is Tomahawk. 
Anyway, I look forward to your impression of all three!


Edit: Now Easy Earphone has changed the title to "Ting"


----------



## BloodyPenguin

In transit I have:
  
 MrZ Tomahawk
 MrZ Ting
 Dark Horse G400
  
 (And two more VE Monks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).
  
  
 Gosh I just love earbuds!


----------



## Danneq

bloodypenguin said:


> In transit I have:
> 
> MrZ Tomahawk
> MrZ Ting
> ...




Which Dark Horse is it? I've found this and this on Aliexpress...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

danneq said:


> Which Dark Horse is it? I've found this and this on Aliexpress...


 
  
 Same seller, but yeah it won't come up if you do a search, strange.
  
 Dark Horse G400 (400 ohm):  http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-Newest-Dark-Horse-G400-Music-Hall-HIFI-Headset-DIY-High-Impedance-Headphones-Dynamic-Drive-unit/32606418594.html
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> Same seller, but yeah it won't come up if you do a search, strange.
> 
> Dark Horse G400 (400 ohm):  http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-Newest-Dark-Horse-G400-Music-Hall-HIFI-Headset-DIY-High-Impedance-Headphones-Dynamic-Drive-unit/32606418594.html
> 
> ..


 This SeaHF 400


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> This SeaHF 400


 

 Ohhh.  I see.  Thanks for the heads up.
  
 Is it any good?


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> Ohhh.  I see.  Thanks for the heads up.
> 
> Is it any good?


ClieOS owner


----------



## BloodyPenguin

@ClieOS, sorry we all keep bugging you.
  
 But can you post up your impressions of the Seahf 400?  As it seems I just bought one.
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

Not bad for $14,45


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> @ClieOS, sorry we all keep bugging you.
> 
> But can you post up your impressions of the Seahf 400?  As it seems I just bought one.
> 
> ..


 
 I think @ClieOS's is the SeaHf 320Ohms New version no?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Oh,btw, I have owned the 320Ohms SeaHf (new ver) for sometime now, and I must say they sound bloody fantastic for the price.
  
 From my limited experience and audio review vocabulary, the seahf 320ohms, sounds a little "warm", high's are what I would consider "smooth" like drinking a cup of whiskey smooth. They are not sibilant at all and I can listen to them for more than 2 whole albums with 11~15 titles each. That compared to my Sony XBA10 and Hifiman RE-400, where listening to one album is all tha I can manage before fatigue sets in. (They do sound great though). Bass is good, it is there when you need it. (Sorry, I am not a fan of bass and I have no idea how to describe them) Mids, therefore I guess is where this bud really shines. Listening to Jazz vocal feels like someone is massaging your ear canals and brain with warm butter...........delicious. Soundstage is quite wide in comparison with my other gear, the Sony, Hifiman, Sidy KT100, and ATH EW-9. I think the Seahf edges out even when compared to the EW-9 for soundstaging.
  
 Overall, a very impressive bud for the price. Now I am patiently waiting for my *湖西小筑 *_*DIY Dual Driver*_ and I look forward to seeing how they stack up against the Seahf.


----------



## munchzilla

audionewbi3 said:


> Oh,btw, I have owned the 320Ohms SeaHf (new ver) for sometime now, and I must say they sound bloody fantastic for the price.
> 
> From my limited experience and audio review vocabulary, the seahf 320ohms, sounds a little "warm", high's are what I would consider "smooth" like drinking a cup of whiskey smooth. They are not sibilant at all and I can listen to them for more than 2 whole albums with 11~15 titles each. That compared to my Sony XBA10 and Hifiman RE-400, where listening to one album is all tha I can manage before fatigue sets in. (They do sound great though). Bass is good, it is there when you need it. (Sorry, I am not a fan of bass and I have no idea how to describe them) Mids, therefore I guess is where this bud really shines. Listening to Jazz vocal feels like someone is massaging your ear canals and brain with warm butter...........delicious. Soundstage is quite wide in comparison with my other gear, the Sony, Hifiman, Sidy KT100, and ATH EW-9. I think the Seahf edges out even when compared to the EW-9 for soundstaging.
> 
> Overall, a very impressive bud for the price. Now I am patiently waiting for my *湖西小筑 *_*DIY Dual Driver*_ and I look forward to seeing how they stack up against the Seahf.


 
 very intrigued by these now, I'm not too familiar with your funny sounding terminology but I do like a mid-forward set with smooth but detailed treble. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Where can I get these and how much are they?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

munchzilla said:


> very intrigued by these now, I'm not too familiar with your funny sounding terminology but I do like a mid-forward set with smooth but detailed treble.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hahaha, here you go mate

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.jyYd3G&id=525608265905&_u=p2i926dje189


----------



## music4mhell

audionewbi3 said:


> Oh,btw, I have owned the 320Ohms SeaHf (new ver) for sometime now, and I must say they sound bloody fantastic for the price.
> 
> From my limited experience and audio review vocabulary, the seahf 320ohms, sounds a little "warm", high's are what I would consider "smooth" like drinking a cup of whiskey smooth. They are not sibilant at all and I can listen to them for more than 2 whole albums with 11~15 titles each. That compared to my Sony XBA10 and Hifiman RE-400, where listening to one album is all tha I can manage before fatigue sets in. (They do sound great though). Bass is good, it is there when you need it. (Sorry, I am not a fan of bass and I have no idea how to describe them) Mids, therefore I guess is where this bud really shines. Listening to Jazz vocal feels like someone is massaging your ear canals and brain with warm butter...........delicious. Soundstage is quite wide in comparison with my other gear, the Sony, Hifiman, Sidy KT100, and ATH EW-9. I think the Seahf edges out even when compared to the EW-9 for soundstaging.
> 
> Overall, a very impressive bud for the price. Now I am patiently waiting for my *湖西小筑 *_*DIY Dual Driver*_ and I look forward to seeing how they stack up against the Seahf.


 
 where can i get *湖西小筑* _*DIY Dual Driver ?*_


----------



## ClieOS

bloodypenguin said:


> @ClieOS, sorry we all keep bugging you.
> 
> But can you post up your impressions of the Seahf 400?  As it seems I just bought one.
> 
> ..


 
  
 Warm, smooth, and definitely very good. Not quite have the wow factor like the Zen 1.0 but otherwise a very solid upper tier earbud. I don't think you will be disappointed.
  


audionewbi3 said:


> I think @ClieOS's is the SeaHf 320Ohms New version no?


 
  
 No, the 400ohm. I have a couple of SeaHF actually for testing, including a couple variations of 150ohm and 320ohm, and they go from decent to really good. Can't really tell you more as they have pretty much minimum labeling and I don't really know which is which.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Warm, smooth, and definitely very good. Not quite have the wow factor like the Zen 1.0 but otherwise a very solid upper tier earbud. I don't think you will be disappointed.
> 
> 
> No, the 400ohm. I have a couple of SeaHF actually for testing, including a couple variations of 150ohm and 320ohm, and they go from decent to really good. Can't really tell you more as they have pretty much minimum labeling and I don't really know which is which.


 
 Ah I see I see. Trying amping them and looking at the volume knob maybe? hahaha


----------



## AudioNewbi3

music4mhell said:


> where can i get *湖西小筑* _*DIY Dual Driver ?*_


 
 Here you go mate:

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.W6AQDw&id=37119460429&_u=p2i926dj9fa1


----------



## ClieOS

Just want to shout out for Ostry KC08 as it doesn't seem to get much attention after release. I brought it to CanJam Singapore and let a couple of local Head-fier tried it out and the feedback are all very positive. Mind of that some of them are MX985 and Zen owner.


----------



## munchzilla

audionewbi3 said:


> Hahaha, here you go mate
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.jyYd3G&id=525608265905&_u=p2i926dje189


 
  
 Thank you
  
 I just realized, this probably won't work too well straight out of phone...? iPhone 6.
 320Ohm and relatively low sensitivity is not a great combination for that.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

munchzilla said:


> Thank you
> 
> I just realized, this probably won't work too well straight out of phone...? iPhone 6.
> 320Ohm and relatively low sensitivity is not a great combination for that.




I had a chat with bugbro and he mentioned that the new version 320ohms are easier to drive and can be driven by your average smartphone. However, theu do really shine when they are amped. I can drive the phones with my z3 compact, but they sounded better when pluged into my XduooX3


----------



## music4mhell

audionewbi3 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > where can i get *湖西小筑* _*DIY Dual Driver ?*_
> ...


 
 Does this seller have this product listed on Aliexpress ?
 I never tried taobao, also i don't know chinese


----------



## AudioNewbi3 (Dec 19, 2017)

music4mhell said:


> Does this seller have this product listed on Aliexpress ?
> I never tried taobao, also i don't know chinese


 
 I don't think so, I am sorry. If you want to buy from Taobao, try using mister tao.


----------



## music4mhell

audionewbi3 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Does this seller have this product listed on Aliexpress ?
> ...


 
 I live in India, ohk then my bad luck, let me have all the good earbuds which are present on Aliexpress atleast 
 just 5 days more


----------



## AudioNewbi3

music4mhell said:


> I live in India, ohk then my bad luck, let me have all the good earbuds which are present on Aliexpress atleast
> just 5 days more


 
 too bad, but at least there is still ae hahaha


----------



## music4mhell

bloodypenguin said:


> In transit I have:
> 
> MrZ Tomahawk
> MrZ Ting
> ...


 
 Now i am more inclined to buy Dark horse G400 first before MrZ Ting.
 When will you get ?
 I want to know your first impression.


----------



## Danneq

clieos said:


> Just want to shout out for Ostry KC08 as it doesn't seem to get much attention after release. I brought it to CanJam Singapore and let a couple of local Head-fier tried it out and the feedback are all very positive. Mind of that some of them are MX985 and Zen owner.




It's on my "to buy" list.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

music4mhell said:


> Now i am more inclined to buy Dark horse G400 first before MrZ Ting.
> When will you get ?
> I want to know your first impression.


 

 Well, they have all been shipped and are on their way from China to me in the US.  So hopefully no longer than a few weeks.

 I plan on doing full reviews of each, but I will post up quick impressions when I get them.
  
 --


----------



## Decommo

Easy earphone is sending those who ordered Mr Z Ting earbud today and shared actual product photos they just took. It looks very attractive. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am saving money to purchase own pair and can't wait.


----------



## music4mhell

decommo said:


> Easy earphone is sending those who ordered Mr Z Ting earbud today and shared actual product photos they just took. It looks very attractive.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yummy, just 3 days more, and i gonna order


----------



## golov17

Del


----------



## Danneq

I almost forgot: the Yuin PK1 massdrop ends today. You can get a pair for $115 excluding shipping. I have been curious about the PK1 for years and joined the massdrop, so Ting, Ostry KC08 and other new earbuds will have to wait...


----------



## Decommo

danneq said:


> I almost forgot: the Yuin PK1 massdrop ends today. You can get a pair for $115 excluding shipping. I have been curious about the PK1 for years and joined the massdrop, so Ting, Ostry KC08 and other new earbuds will have to wait...


 
 Love to hear your impression when you get it.


----------



## golov17

decommo said:


> Love to hear your impression when you get it.


+1  
Also, try cheap Panasonic


----------



## golov17

Good Panasonic, recommended


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> Good Panasonic, recommended


 
  
 Crap, now I have to buy one...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  





 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 $6 on eBay:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/262104004591
  
 --


----------



## golov17

Crap


----------



## golov17

Crap


----------



## golov17

Crap


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> Crap


 
  
 I want all that Crap.
  
 ..


----------



## AudioNewbi3

我的妈呀。。。
 Oh god........so many buds to try so little funding.. Now on my list are

 1. MIN VX
 2. TOMAHAWK
 3. TING
 4. HAVI B3 PRO 1 (I know it's not a bud but.........)
 5. SEAHF 400OHMS

 Which to bu....which to buy with my limited budget......sigh.......


----------



## yacobx

audionewbi3 said:


> 我的妈呀。。。
> Oh god........so many buds to try so little funding.. Now on my list are
> 
> 
> ...




Actually the havi reminds me on the zen 2.0 so I totally understand your list


----------



## Saoshyant

This is why I like earbuds...  even the most costly buds are less than some of the headphones I'm looking at for a closed set.  I certainly don't need a closed headphone as it would essentially be covered by my IE800 (less noise to bother people, probably bass-centric.)  To get what I'd really want, I'd have to convince myself to spend at least $900...  and I'm having a very hard time doing that.  I can still pick up something inexpensive and highly enjoyable in the chinese IEM/earbud markets that I won't regret getting and won't feel the cost of nearly as much.  Well, not to mention that a good fit on an earbud is like there's nothing there, it's the ultimate in comfort.


----------



## ozkan

audionewbi3 said:


> 我的妈呀。。。
> Oh god........so many buds to try so little funding.. Now on my list are
> 
> 
> ...




Monk.


----------



## music4mhell

audionewbi3 said:


> 我的妈呀。。。
> Oh god........so many buds to try so little funding.. Now on my list are
> 
> 
> ...




link for min vx plz


----------



## To.M

+1 Monk


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> 我的妈呀。。。
> Oh god........so many buds to try so little funding.. Now on my list are
> 
> 1. MIN VX
> ...


 
  
 Tomahawk. Relatively cheap at around $50 with shipping included and the overall sound is quite close to that of VE Monk, but more detailed. Going from Monk to Tomahawk is like removing a thick blanket from a speaker...
  
  


saoshyant said:


> This is why I like earbuds...  even the most costly buds are less than some of the headphones I'm looking at for a closed set.  I certainly don't need a closed headphone as it would essentially be covered by my IE800 (less noise to bother people, probably bass-centric.)  To get what I'd really want, I'd have to convince myself to spend at least $900...  and I'm having a very hard time doing that.  I can still pick up something inexpensive and highly enjoyable in the chinese IEM/earbud markets that I won't regret getting and won't feel the cost of nearly as much.  Well, not to mention that a good fit on an earbud is like there's nothing there, it's the ultimate in comfort.


 
   
Also, the most expensive earbuds (right now Celsus Gramo One at $249, if you do not count the special editions of VE Asura 2.0 & Zen 2.0) are many times cheaper than the most expensive IEM's. So you can collect the 4-5 most expensive earbuds and still spend less money than you would if you bought a high end IEM...


----------



## Decommo

How does SQ differ if we compare top end IEM and Ear buds?


----------



## To.M

AudioNewbi3, save money, buy Monks and be happy!


----------



## Danneq

decommo said:


> How does SQ differ if we compare top end IEM and Ear buds?


 
  
 Sorry, can't contribute to that discussion...
  


to.m said:


> AudioNewbi3, save money, buy Monks and be happy!


 

 Money should be spent! Especially on audio stuff! And he can get both the Monk and Tomahawk for less than $60. But that's like buying the DVD (Monk) and Blu ray (Tomahawk) version of the same movie since the overall sound is similar (mainly bass has got more body on the Tomahawks. Also other instruments get more body and "fullness" on the Tomahawk, while highs are slightly more peaky and the soundstage slightly bigger on the Monks)...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

music4mhell said:


> link for min vx plz


 
 here you go mate
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.66.KmPgEt&id=524222823803&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail


----------



## AudioNewbi3

ozkan said:


> Monk.


 
  
  


to.m said:


> +1 Monk


 
  
  


to.m said:


> AudioNewbi3, save money, buy Monks and be happy!


 
  
 Thanks for the suggestions guys, but I hear that the monks are quite the bang for the buck, but how does it do in terms of recreating detail? I like airy and neutral or mid centric sound.
  
    Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Danneq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Tomahawk. Relatively cheap at around $50 with shipping included and the overall sound is quite close to that of VE Monk, but more detailed. Going from Monk to Tomahawk is like removing a thick blanket from a speaker...


 


danneq said:


> Money should be spent! Especially on audio stuff! And he can get both the Monk and Tomahawk for less than $60. But that's like buying the DVD (Monk) and Blu ray (Tomahawk) version of the same movie since the overall sound is similar (mainly bass has got more body on the Tomahawks. Also other instruments get more body and "fullness" on the Tomahawk, while highs are slightly more peaky and the soundstage slightly bigger on the Monks)...


 
  
 I was eyeing the Tomahawk, then the Hype with Ting started.......so now I am more torn. I was already planning the for the Tomahawks, then bam came the Tings. Have you gotten the Tings yet? Maybe I'll decide from comparison between the Tings and Tomahawk.  






 Now for that MIN VX, @ClieOS have you listened to them after getting them?

 Thank-you


----------



## Danneq

I don't think anyone except for one guy from Indonesia (?) has heard the Ting. I've really like my pair of Tomahawk and if Ting is a big improvement of Tomahawk it should really be amazing.

 I won't buy Ting for at least 1 month. I joined a massdrop for Yuin PK1 ($115 excluding shipping) so my earbud spending money are used for this month...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> I don't think anyone except for one guy from Indonesia (?) has heard the Ting. I've got Tomahawk and really like them. If the Ting is a big improvement of Tomahawk it should really be amazing.
> 
> I won't buy Ting for at least 1 month. I joined a massdrop for Yuin PK1 ($115 excluding shipping) so my earbud spending money are used for this month...


 
 Ah I see I see. Has anyone in the tread ordered the Tings and owns the Tomahawks?


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Ah I see I see. Has anyone in the tread ordered the Tings and owns the Tomahawks?


----------



## Danneq

BloodyPenguin ordered both Tomahawk and Ting a few days ago so he should get them within 2 weeks...


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


>


 


 Beat me by 6 seconds!


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> Beat me by 6 seconds!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

@BloodyPenguin my hero!


----------



## music4mhell

audionewbi3 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > link for min vx plz
> ...




Could you plz ask the seller, if he can list on aliexpress, i nev used taobao


----------



## AudioNewbi3

music4mhell said:


> Could you plz ask the seller, if he can list on aliexpress, i nev used taobao


 
 I can try, but most probably you won't get a "yes". Most of the time sellers are only willing to sell in Taobao.


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> Could you plz ask the seller, if he can list on aliexpress, i nev used taobao


 


 You can ask Easy Earphone, who sells Tomahawk and Ting on Aliexpress. If enough people ask, they will probably start selling M1N VX. They started selling Ting after they got requests from a bunch of people (probably all of the from Head fi).


----------



## tukangketik

music4mhell said:


> Could you plz ask the seller, if he can list on aliexpress, i nev used taobao



I once asked the seller. Has a basic english. He can‘t shipped directly from China to overseas, which probably can not open a shop on aliexpress either. 

I think his M1N VX is good. Unfortunately I had the first batch so I can't comment much. But I think the sound is not for everyone. Rather toward neutral with crisp and extended treble. Focus on upper mid to hi. Bass is quite tight. Soundstage not very wide. Some of my friend prefer it for female audiophile but it works for me mostly on metal genre. Housing us small, might be smaller than yuins.

Also, like Gramo One, when you close the vent on the back it would sound thin and compressed.

I also have the diacontinued M1N V2 which also sounds good. Well not bad either. 

Hope that help.


----------



## rggz

Guys, where can I find those sponge foams?

  


Spoiler: Picture



  


 
 Edit: I find it here, please sell it on Aliexpress or ebay!


----------



## Zani004

rggz said:


> Guys, where can I find those sponge foams?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Plenty available on ebay
 http://www.ebay.com/bhp/earbud-covers


----------



## Zani004

danneq said:


> Tomahawk. Relatively cheap at around $50 with shipping included and the overall sound is quite close to that of VE Monk, but more detailed. Going from Monk to Tomahawk is like removing a thick blanket from a speaker...


 
  
 I finally received my Tomahawks and Monks a few days ago. I've been swapping back and forward between them ever since, and your blanket analogy is completely true.
 The Tomahawks are much better and the Monks now reside in a drawer.
  
 Can't wait for the Tomahawk / Ting comparisons, and also Ting /Asura / Zen.


----------



## Decommo

zani004 said:


> danneq said:
> 
> 
> > Tomahawk. Relatively cheap at around $50 with shipping included and the overall sound is quite close to that of VE Monk, but more detailed. Going from Monk to Tomahawk is like removing a thick blanket from a speaker...
> ...


 
 Awesome. Thank you very much for sharing your impression.


----------



## Decommo

I guess that I read somewhere that Shozy Cygnus favored against Ostry KC8. For me, the list comes down to;
  
 1. SHOZY CYGNUS
 2. TOMAHAWK
 3. TING
 4. SEAHF 320 OR 400 OHMS
  
 If those earphone company can lend review units to reputable head-fi members who can do honest review on those, it would be just FABULOUS. But it may not be possible since those companies are relatively small and may focus on domestic markets in China. :|


----------



## golov17

I will try cygnus (i like pk2)/


----------



## Decommo

golov17 said:


> I will try cygnus (i like pk2)/


 
  
 Awesome.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tukangketik said:


> I once asked the seller. Has a basic english. He can‘t shipped directly from China to overseas, which probably can not open a shop on aliexpress either.
> 
> I think his M1N VX is good. Unfortunately I had the first batch so I can't comment much. But I think the sound is not for everyone. Rather toward neutral with crisp and extended treble. Focus on upper mid to hi. Bass is quite tight. Soundstage not very wide. Some of my friend prefer it for female audiophile but it works for me mostly on metal genre. Housing us small, might be smaller than yuins.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank-you for taking the time to write up your impression.

 If I remember correctly, the old version of the MIN VX is the MIN V5. When you mentioned that you have the first batch, does it mean that you have the MIN V5? Because AFAIK, there is only one version of the MIN VX correct? Did the company changed anything on the MIN VX on the 2nd or 3rd batch?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

decommo said:


> I guess that I read somewhere that Shozy Cygnus favored against Ostry KC8. For me, the list comes down to;
> 
> 1. SHOZY CYGNUS
> 2. TOMAHAWK
> ...


 
 SEAHF 320 OHMS goodling


----------



## AudioNewbi3

zani004 said:


> I finally received my Tomahawks and Monks a few days ago. I've been swapping back and forward between them ever since, and your blanket analogy is completely true.
> The Tomahawks are much better and the Monks now reside in a drawer.
> 
> Can't wait for the Tomahawk / Ting comparisons, and also Ting /Asura / Zen.


 


 Well then, out with the monks I guess hahaha.

 Now the lists comes down to:
  
 MIN VX
 TOMAHAWK
 SEAHF 400 OHMS
 TING
 HAVI B3 PRO I


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Oh btw guys, which brand of foam is the best for earbuds? 

I am planning to use doughnuts. Any brand reconmended?


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Oh btw guys, which brand of foam is the best for earbuds?
> 
> I am planning to use doughnuts. Any brand reconmended?


 http://m.shenzhenaudio.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=Hiegi
http://m.intl.taobao.com/search/search.html?q=HieGi%20海捷進口加厚耳


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I'll have the *Tomahawk* by *Feb 29th*, unfortunately I bought the *Ting* from a different seller and that one just went overseas today, so *another week or so* for it to arrive.
  
 Not sure when the *Dark Horse G400/Seahf 400* will arrive, not seeing any tracking on it.
  
 The anticipation is killing me.
  
 --


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> http://m.shenzhenaudio.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=Hiegi
> http://m.intl.taobao.com/search/search.html?q=HieGi%20海捷進口加厚耳


 
 Thanks for the info mate!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> I'll have the *Tomahawk* by *Feb 29th*, unfortunately I bought the *Ting* from a different seller and that one just went overseas today, so *another week or so* for it to arrive.
> 
> Not sure when the *Dark Horse G400/Seahf 400* will arrive, not seeing any tracking on it.
> 
> ...


 
 Can you kindly do a comparison between the Tomahawks and the Tings when you have both of them on hand?


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Thanks for the info mate!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> Can you kindly do a comparison between the Tomahawks and the Tings when you have both of them on hand?


 

 That is the plan!


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> That is the plan!


i'm waiting


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> That is the plan!


 
 I think I am as anxious as you are for the arrival of your buds. Though I am mainly anxious for the comparison hahaha!


----------



## tukangketik

audionewbi3 said:


> Thank-you for taking the time to write up your impression.
> 
> If I remember correctly, the old version of the MIN VX is the MIN V5. When you mentioned that you have the first batch, does it mean that you have the MIN V5? Because AFAIK, there is only one version of the MIN VX correct? Did the company changed anything on the MIN VX on the 2nd or 3rd batch?


 
 You are correct. The early version is V5 which comes with a blister box. Then it is replaced by VX, but some of the buyer wanted M1N to enhance the vocal department, hence there is the VX batch 2 with improvements.
 Mine is the first batch of M1N VX. Here is the picture. I have to use rubber seal with buldge so it could stays on my ears. I have problem with smaller housing because it is fell off easily.

 Add.
 An impression of VX on Baidu. Which I think you could read it easily. 
 http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4303756763


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> Well then, out with the monks I guess hahaha.
> 
> 
> Now the lists comes down to:
> ...




I have to stand up for the Monks a bit. They are probably the best bang for the buck earbuds ever. I see them as on the same level, but a bit better than, earbuds such as Yuin PK3 and Blox BE3 or M2C. All of those cost around $30 so the Monks could easily be sold for $30 or 40. There are better ones, but still the Monks are great value earbuds. I will probably sell my Zen 2.0, since I cannot seem to appreciate the sound even if I have tried hard. I'll probably include the Monks that I got with the Zens, but then I'll buy a new pair of Monks. They're great to have around as a spare pair...


----------



## Decommo

danneq said:


> audionewbi3 said:
> 
> 
> > Well then, out with the monks I guess hahaha.
> ...


 
  
 Yes, Monk is Fantastic. For me, it opened my eyes and made me wanting to try other higher end earbuds. Before Monk, I have not even thinking about trying Earbud but use IEM only. Now I am willing to try other higher end earbuds to see what earbuds can do comparing with higher end IEM. I guess that there are many people who tried Monk want to try higher end audiophile grade earbuds for the same reason. (or it is just me.)


----------



## Decommo

In addition, Monk is great but it is to be desired. I hear the distortion when it is turned up the volume and it lacks a bit of clarity (soundstage was very good for me) though. Hence eager to try higher end earbuds.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Yes, I fully understand that the Monks have legendary status in the audiophile world. However, here is my problem: since I have already decided to purchase either the Tomahawks, Tings, or MIN VX's, I highly doubt I would go back and listen to the Monks. Instead, the Monks would enter an eternal slumber in my plastic divider box, and suffer the same fate as my SIDY BGVP KT100 after  have gotten the SeaHF 320OHMS new version.

 Do anyone of you go back to listen to your monks extensively after you have heard other buds like the Tomahawk? (Just curious)


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tukangketik said:


> You are correct. The early version is V5 which comes with a blister box. Then it is replaced by VX, but some of the buyer wanted M1N to enhance the vocal department, hence there is the VX batch 2 with improvements.
> Mine is the first batch of M1N VX. Here is the picture. I have to use rubber seal with buldge so it could stays on my ears. I have problem with smaller housing because it is fell off easily.
> 
> Add.
> ...


 
 Ah I see I see. Thanks for the information mate! Any ideas how one would identify or differentiate between v1 and v2?


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Yes, I fully understand that the Monks have legendary status in the audiophile world. However, here is my problem: since I have already decided to purchase either the Tomahawks, Tings, or MIN VX's, I highly doubt I would go back and listen to the Monks. Instead, the Monks would enter an eternal slumber in my plastic divider box, and suffer the same fate as my SIDY BGVP KT100 after  have gotten the SeaHF 320OHMS new version.
> 
> 
> Do anyone of you go back to listen to your monks extensively after you have heard other buds like the Tomahawk? (Just curious)


Not problem for used all my earbuds, time to time


----------



## tukangketik

audionewbi3 said:


> Ah I see I see. Thanks for the information mate! Any ideas how one would identify or differentiate between v1 and v2?



I don't know. You shold be safe if purchasing from the official store. Because mk1 already been discontinued and replaced. I wouldn't know if mine was the mk1 if the seller didn't inform me. He mention about it after I receive my package. 

So I am also burning the seahf 400ohm and 320ohm mk2 now.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> Not problem for used all my earbuds, time to time




Ah I see I see. Guess I should try to love buds more!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tukangketik said:


> I don't know. You shold be safe if purchasing from the official store. Because mk1 already been discontinued and replaced. I wouldn't know if mine was the mk1 if the seller didn't inform me. He mention about it after I receive my package.
> 
> So I am also burning the seahf 400ohm and 320ohm mk2 now.




Mind telling me what is the difference between the 320 v2 and 400ohms are? I already habe the 320v2 and I was thinking of buying the 400. If they sound about the same, then i can cross them outta my list hahaha


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> ....
> Now for that MIN VX, @ClieOS have you listened to them after getting them?
> 
> Thank-you


 
  
 Of course I did, and it is a solid earbuds and an good improvement over their previous flagship, the V5. Somewhat of a neutral sound with slight warmth and a pretty good soundstage. It doesn't really have any big wow factor, but also doesn't really any particular weakness. If I am nitpicking, I'll say the bass can use just a bit more body. Right now I'll probably rate it somewhere in the mid to upper mid area in the 'great' category.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Of course I did, and it is a solid earbuds and an good improvement over their previous flagship, the V5. Somewhat of a neutral sound with slight warmth and a pretty good soundstage. It doesn't really have any big wow factor, but also doesn't really any particular weakness. If I am nitpicking, I'll say the bass can use just a bit more body. Right now I'll probably rate it somewhere in the mid to upper mid area in the 'great' category.


 
  
 Thanks for the information as always Clie, seeing as I have already bought the DIY dual drivers, should I still get these?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

LOOKS DELICIOUS

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-2090452647.32.46X7Qa&id=40825121925
  
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5-c.w4002-2090463127.89.w1BLKP&id=520415325390


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> Thanks for the information as always Clie, seeing as I have already bought the DIY dual drivers, should I still get these?


 
  
 They are different enough that I think it is worth a buy - but then again, I am biased for being a person who keep buying earbuds.


----------



## fleasbaby

audionewbi3 said:


> Yes, I fully understand that the Monks have legendary status in the audiophile world. However, here is my problem: since I have already decided to purchase either the Tomahawks, Tings, or MIN VX's, I highly doubt I would go back and listen to the Monks. Instead, the Monks would enter an eternal slumber in my plastic divider box, and suffer the same fate as my SIDY BGVP KT100 after  have gotten the SeaHF 320OHMS new version.
> 
> Do anyone of you go back to listen to your monks extensively after you have heard other buds like the Tomahawk? (Just curious)


 
  
 I find myself frequently going back to the Monk from the Zen V1 and Zen V2. My Monks are single ended. My Zens are balanced for use with the Pono. They also often get put on instead of my custom built Magnum V6 and Ypsilon full-size headphones and my vintage pink driver Grado SR80 (both the stock ones and the pair in African Blackwood). Part of this is convenience. A lot of it is simply their quality. They punch way above their weight and classification.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

fleasbaby said:


> I find myself frequently going back to the Monk from the Zen V1 and Zen V2. My Monks are single ended. My Zens are balanced for use with the Pono. They also often get put on instead of my custom built Magnum V6 and Ypsilon full-size headphones and my vintage pink driver Grado SR80 (both the stock ones and the pair in African Blackwood). Part of this is convenience. A lot of it is simply their quality. They punch way above their weight and classification.


 
 Thanks for your response mate. Seeing as I do not have a balanced setup (nor would I have the money for it), I shall still remain firm and skip the Monks (I am probably going to get stabbed for the statement). Let's say if you had the Zen's in single ended form, would you still go back to your monks?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> They are different enough that I think it is worth a buy - but then again, I am biased for being a person who keep buying earbuds.


 
 Hahaha Thanks for the info! So my list remains I guess.


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Thanks for your response mate. Seeing as I do not have a balanced setup (nor would I have the money for it), I shall still remain firm and skip the Monks (I am probably going to get stabbed for the statement). Let's say if you had the Zen's in single ended form, would you still go back to your monks?


----------



## fleasbaby

audionewbi3 said:


> Thanks for your response mate. Seeing as I do not have a balanced setup (nor would I have the money for it), I shall still remain firm and skip the Monks (I am probably going to get stabbed for the statement). Let's say if you had the Zen's in single ended form, would you still go back to your monks?


 

 LOL...well...I had the Zen V1 in single ended format before I heard the new Monks, so I didn't have them side-by-side...but I probably would still reach for them. That simply because the Monks sound damn good, and I wouldn't need my stack or Pono to drive them properly...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Damn it...the question still remains, to Monk or not to Monk if one is planning to get the Tings or Tomahawks.

 Any other feedback?


----------



## ozkan

audionewbi3 said:


> Damn it...the question still remains, to Monk or not to Monk if one is planning to get the Tings or Tomahawks.
> 
> 
> Any other feedback?




Monk is great and cheap! Why bother at $5? You should be kidding I guess. 

Really Lee should be selling the Monk for maybe $20-50 to draw more attention. Because general consensus is if something is cheap it cannot be good. So if I were Lee I would sell the Monk for $20 at least.YMMW.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

ozkan said:


> Monk is great and cheap! Why bother at $5? You should be kidding I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes I understand they are terrific value for the money and bloody punch waaay above their own weight. However what I am worried about is that if I buy the Monks and the Tomahawks at the same time, the Tomahawks will be out-performing the Monks that I won't even care to listen to them and in the end, I could have used those $5USD to buy myself better earpads or save up the same 5USD for future upgrade. Just my honest opinion.

 Guess it comes down to just how similar are the Tomahawks and Monk sound. The blanket analogy has got me thinking. That is how I came to my conclusion.


----------



## Zani004

audionewbi3 said:


> Yes I understand they are terrific value for the money and bloody punch waaay above their own weight. However what I am worried about is that if I buy the Monks and the Tomahawks at the same time, the Tomahawks will be out-performing the Monks that I won't even care to listen to them and in the end, I could have used those $5USD to buy myself better earpads or save up the same 5USD for future upgrade. Just my honest opinion.
> 
> Guess it comes down to just how similar are the Tomahawks and Monk sound. The blanket analogy has got me thinking. That is how I came to my conclusion.


 

 Looks like I caused this lol. I bought the Monks because of their reputation and really, for $5, cost isn't a consideration. As value for money, they are unbeatable, but I was comparing sound quality, and I don't care what the cost is. If they were better I would have been happy to say so. Will I use them when I could just as easily grab the Tomahawks, no.


----------



## Decommo

Just got VJJB earbud 10mins ago. Good thing is that the packaging and overall presentation is outstanding and lots of accessories. However it does not sit in ear well and sound is very quiet comparing with VE Monk at same volume level tested so have to crank up the volume. And the major issue is kink on cable. I do not recommend this earbud. I will just use it to make phone call.


----------



## Decommo

Just tested VJJB made some phone calls and call quality is quite good and clear.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

zani004 said:


> Looks like I caused this lol. I bought the Monks because of their reputation and really, for $5, cost isn't a consideration. As value for money, they are unbeatable, but I was comparing sound quality, and I don't care what the cost is. If they were better I would have been happy to say so. Will I use them when I could just as easily grab the Tomahawks, no.


 
 That is exactly what I would fear if I buy both the monks and the tomahawks


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> That is exactly what I would fear if I buy both the monks and the tomahawks


 


 When I'm commuting to work on bus and subway (and sometimes train), I don't mind using Monk. Earbuds are not very isolating so I cannot catch all the details anyway. But if I know I'll be in a more quiet environment I prefer more detailed earbuds...


----------



## chompy

I also have a pair of Monks that I don't use at all. They are cheap, yes, but if you have something better sounding or with a different sound signature that you like more, then IMHO buying them it's just a waste of money... If you add shipping cost to the Monks, then I have other options available which I prefer (Monks are mid centric, without enough bass and rolled off highs and I like V shaped sound).


----------



## music4mhell

I used Monk only 2/3 times. I use only Zen now a days.
 Monk is good, no doubt, but it lacks the details, sound is thick.


----------



## ozkan

chompy said:


> I also have a pair of Monks that I don't use at all. They are cheap, yes, but if you have something better sounding or with a different sound signature that you like more, then IMHO buying them it's just a waste of money... If you add shipping cost to the Monks, then I have other options available which I prefer (Monks are mid centric, without enough bass and rolled off highs and I like V shaped sound).




What's better than the Monk under $50 price range may I ask?



music4mhell said:


> I used Monk only 2/3 times. I use only Zen now a days.
> Monk is good, no doubt, but it lacks the details, sound is thick.




Which source are you pairing the Zen 2.0 with?


----------



## music4mhell

ozkan said:


> chompy said:
> 
> 
> > I also have a pair of Monks that I don't use at all. They are cheap, yes, but if you have something better sounding or with a different sound signature that you like more, then IMHO buying them it's just a waste of money... If you add shipping cost to the Monks, then I have other options available which I prefer (Monks are mid centric, without enough bass and rolled off highs and I like V shaped sound).
> ...


 
 Chord Mojo, i am no audiophile, i have only one source


----------



## markkkun

danneq said:


> When I'm commuting to work on bus and subway (and sometimes train), I don't mind using Monk. Earbuds are not very isolating so I cannot catch all the details anyway. But if I know I'll be in a more quiet environment I prefer more detailed earbuds...


 
 I'm rediscovering the world of earbuds thanks to the Monk. I'm looking for a better earbuds without spending much money. Considering that I'm enjoying a lot the monk. Are there many differences between Tomahawks/VE Assura 2.0? Which do you recommend me to buy?


----------



## Danneq

ozkan said:


> What's better than the Monk under $50 price range may I ask?


 


 I got my pair of Tomahawk for around $46 with shipping included. You should be able to get them for around that price and perhaps that can count as "under $50 price range"?
 I also really like my pair of Dasetn M760 (modified Sennheiser MX760) that cost something like $25. But since those are not available anymore they are not an option. And quality control on those were not the best as 2 pairs could sound different.

 I think that Monks beat Yuin PK3 (cost around $35) and in some areas are better than the over $50 PK2 (mainly soundstage) and some not (mids).

 I also prefer the Monks to Blox BE3 which is discontinued and cost around $30 (+ $8 in shipping if I remember correctly) when they were sold.

 So the Monks are very good when you consider price vs performance.
  


markkkun said:


> I'm rediscovering the world of earbuds thanks to the Monk. I'm looking for a better earbuds without spending much money. Considering that I'm enjoying a lot the monk. Are there many differences between Tomahawks/VE Assura 2.0? Which do you recommend me to buy?


 

 I haven't heard Asura 2.0. As for Tomahawk, I think that the overall sound signature is similar to Monks. But clarity and detail and also bass impact is much better on the Tomahawk...


----------



## markkkun

danneq said:


> I haven't heard Asura 2.0. As for Tomahawk, I think that the overall sound signature is similar to Monks. But clarity and detail and also bass impact is much better on the Tomahawk...


 
 Ok, I think that I finally will buy the Tomahawk... Besides, the Tomahawk are cheaper than the assura.


----------



## Danneq

And then there's the Ting, from the same maker as Tomahawk (Musicmaker is the name of the brand if I understand correctly). It costs $99 on Aliexpress (right now Easy Earphone have lowered the price to $89.10) and is supposed to be a big improvement of Tomahawk. And I already think Tomahawk are great. Still, I'll try to buy Ting as soon as possible.


----------



## Danneq

More new DIY earbuds on Easy Earphone:

  


Spoiler: New earbuds



ES-E1:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-New-Arrived-ES-E1-In-Ear-Earbuds-In-Ear-Earphone-Alloy-Tune-Earbuds-Such-as/519064_32614589263.html

 ES-E2:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-New-Arrived-ES-E2-Extreme-Queen-In-Ear-Earbuds-In-Ear-Earphone-Alloy-Tune-Earbuds/519064_32614618706.html

 The same as this? (Dark Horse DHST2):
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Newest-Dark-Horse-DHST2-Custom-made-Extreme-HIFI-Fever-Earphone-Dynamic-and-Armature-Headphones-DIY-Stereo/32598388100.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.280.2HepAz

 ES-E3:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-New-Arrived-ES-E3-Hifi-In-Ear-Earbuds-In-Ear-Earphone-Alloy-Tune-Earbuds-DIY/519064_32616527815.html

 ES-E4:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-New-Arrived-ES-E4-Hifi-In-Ear-Earbuds-In-Ear-Earphone-Alloy-Tune-Earbuds-DIY/519064_32614629171.html

 The same as this? (Dark Horse DHUN1):
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-Dark-Horse-Audio-DHUN1-Custom-made-In-ear-Dynamic-Earphones-Hifi-Stereo-Headphone-Wired-3/32598013058.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.277.2HepAz


----------



## AudioNewbi3

If I may, here is my 2 cents worth of conclusion from what I have read (kindly correct me if I am wrong):
  
 The Monks, although only priced at $5, bloody punches above their own weight, and in some cases or areas, will out perform other earbuds which are 5~10 times their price. They (the Monks) are a very very good introduction for an individual who wishes to explore the earbud realm and discover just how good "audiophile" grade earbuds can be. It is sort of like a "gateway" earbud to the kingdom of earbuds, like a appetizers before a main course.
  
 However (purely based on my opinion and observation), these are $5 earbuds and they are bound to have their own limitations and quirks. Sure they outperform every single earbud in their prince range, but if one is willing to spend more, heck a lot more, say close to 10 times more (in the case of the Tomahawks), you will get a pair of earbuds which will undoubtedly outperform the Monks. How well do they outperform the Monks at close to 10x the price, I do not know as I do not own both of them.

 If one already has some nice earbuds (in my case the SeaHF 320Ohms), and one would like to purchase another earbud AND is wiling to spend a bit more, then I personally think it is totally okay to skip the Monks and just buy another earbud which is more expensive than the Monks and will outperform them. I also think that if in my case, I were to purchase both the Monks and Tomahawks, I would end up with redundant earbuds, and in the end, I may ignore the Monks altogether and only listen to the Tomahawks (but of course, that is just me). The $5 could have been used to fund another purchase or saved up for future earbuds. 

 BUT, being the head-fier that we are, we all know that music is subjective and "one man's meat, maybe another man's poison". I hope that you take my statement with a grain of salt and enjoy doing, purchasing, and listening to what you do! In the end, it's all the different opinions and preferences that are discussed throughout the site that we get to see things from so many new perspective.

 Cheers~!


----------



## Decommo

VJJB C1 Works unexpectedly well with old but powerful MD player.


----------



## Saoshyant

@AudioNewbi3 I know for me, and I imagine I'm not the only one, I'm more willing to bring a less expensive pair of headphones/IEMs/Earbuds/whatever with me when I'm out and about and especially at work, than a rather expensive one just in case something happens.  In this respect, the Monk is invaluable to me, and is often what I bring to work as it's quite enjoyable, and the lack of isolation can be helpful.  At home though, I don't really listen to them as there's better options.  But yes, I agree for anyone thinking of getting into the earbud world, or thinking of trying something from the Asian market as the price vs performance ratio on many new items is outstanding, the Monk is easily a worthwhile purchase.


----------



## golov17

decommo said:


> VJJB C1 Works unexpectedly well with old but powerful MD player.


 Well, good cable for my Monk


----------



## ozkan

I bet Monk can beat Tomahawk when you add 75 ohm adapter.  Well I tried and found it more cleaner and faster than the stock form.


----------



## Danneq

ozkan said:


> I bet Monk can beat Tomahawk when you add 75 ohm adapter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 You just need to buy or borrow a pair of Tomahawk and compare...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

saoshyant said:


> @AudioNewbi3 I know for me, and I imagine I'm not the only one, I'm more willing to bring a less expensive pair of headphones/IEMs/Earbuds/whatever with me when I'm out and about and especially at work, than a rather expensive one just in case something happens.  In this respect, the Monk is invaluable to me, and is often what I bring to work as it's quite enjoyable, and the lack of isolation can be helpful.  At home though, I don't really listen to them as there's better options.  But yes, I agree for anyone thinking of getting into the earbud world, or thinking of trying something from the Asian market as the price vs performance ratio on many new items is outstanding, the Monk is easily a worthwhile purchase.


 
  
 Yes, I totally agree with your statement about bring expensive things around. However, I have been abusing the crap out of my Sony XBA 10 and they are more expensive than my most expensive earbud, plus the setup I have got (xduoo x3 + amp) is already expensive. So I guess I am used to bringing them around? (though around only means at the office and in university)


ozkan said:


> I bet Monk can beat Tomahawk when you add 75 ohm adapter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Are you serious?! WOW! Did you try and compared the adapted Monks with Tomahawks?


----------



## ozkan

audionewbi3 said:


> Are you serious?! WOW! Did you try and compared the adapted Monks with Tomahawks?




Sorry, I don't have a Tomahawk but Monk with 75 ohm transforms like ER4P to ER4S if you know what I mean.


----------



## ozkan

danneq said:


> You just need to buy or borrow a pair of Tomahawk and compare...




Well maybe you can send yours to compare.


----------



## Danneq

ozkan said:


> Well maybe you can send yours to compare.


 

 I plan on being buried with them when I die.


----------



## chompy

ozkan said:


> What's better than the Monk under $50 price range may I ask?


 
  
 For my personal taste Edifier H185 give me almost everything I miss in Monks (which as Danneq I also find better than Yuin PK3), congrats to everybody that enjoy their Monks, unfortunately they are not for me (they also hurt my ears and I listed music with earbuds near 5 hours a day so this is also really important for me).
  
 That said, I'm still searching an earbud that gives me Beyerdynamic DT770 sound...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

danneq said:


> I got my pair of Tomahawk for around $46 with shipping included. You should be able to get them for around that price and perhaps that can count as "under $50 price range"?
> 
> I think that Monks beat Yuin PK3 (cost around $35) and in some areas are better than the over $50 PK2 (mainly soundstage) and some not (mids).
> 
> ...


 
  
 I agree with you 100%  

 I was not a big fan of the Blox BE3, or Yuin PK3.
  
 For me, I think the Monk is just great for gifts.  My friends and family are always hitting me up for earphones, so I give out the Monk like candy. 

 I also have not heard the Asura 2.0 (I have the 1.0 and like it a lot).  I also still have yet to have the pleasure of listening to the Zen 1.0 or 2.0
  
  
 --


----------



## music4mhell

How is astrotec lyra ?
any idea guys..its quite expensive


----------



## satansmutt

chompy said:


> For my personal taste Edifier H185 give me almost everything I miss in Monks (which as Danneq I also find better than Yuin PK3), congrats to everybody that enjoy their Monks, unfortunately they are not for me (they also hurt my ears and I listed music with earbuds near 5 hours a day so this is also really important for me).
> 
> That said, I'm still searching an earbud that gives me Beyerdynamic DT770 sound...


 
  
 I've also got the Edifier H185 although a different sound signature from the monks they are a very good cheap earbuds. I bought them along with a pair of Edifier H101 and they are both excellent for their price. I use them every day in rotation with the monks while out walking my dogs where I have learnt to my cost that it is better to leave the expensive earphones in the house and find a cheap decent pair out with me lol


----------



## ozkan

danneq said:


> Tomahawk. Relatively cheap at around $50 with shipping included and the overall sound is quite close to that of VE Monk, but more detailed. Going from Monk to Tomahawk is like removing a thick blanket from a speaker...




Does your "removing a thick blanket from a speaker" analogy apply Monk with donuts or naked? Are they more comfortable than Monk?


----------



## Danneq

ozkan said:


> Does your "removing a thick blanket from a speaker" analogy apply Monk with donuts or naked? Are they more comfortable than Monk?




I like clarity but am a bit sensitive to sibilance, so I have full foams on both the Monks and the Tomahawks. The treble on them is quite similar.


----------



## ozkan

danneq said:


> I like clarity but am a bit sensitive to sibilance, so I have full foams on both the Monks and the Tomahawks. The treble on them is quite similar.


 
  
 Thank you sir!
  
  
 Btw, I liked the Grado-ish design of Tomahawks. So odd and sexy!


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> How is astrotec lyra ?
> any idea guys..its quite expensive




I've got a pair and like the sound but not the physical earbuds themselves. The regular Astrotec Lyra is discontinued and now you can only find Lyra6, with earhooks. Apparently there have been some changes made to the Lyra6 with new filters, so they are more bassy. Overall the Lyra (non earhooks) have a very clean and detailed sound. 

Now to why I don't like my pair: I could only find a pair on Ebay that was modified with a balanced plug, adapted to Astell & Kern DAP (AK120 I think). I had to buy an adapter from 2.5 mm balanced to 3.5 mm regular and then I use an extension cord. So there are 3 plugs together (2.5 mm balanced/adapter/3.5mm extension) and it becomes a bit heavy...

If anyone here owns a DAP or amp with balanced RSA/ALO input you are welcome to buy my pair of Lyra.

I think that my pair of Lyra is the actual pair in this review. They are identical.




ozkan said:


> Are they more comfortable than Monk?




Forgot to reply to this... Monks use the old Sennheiser MX400 housing, the same as Blox and many other Chinese brands use. Tomahawk uses a housing that seems to be custom made. The front/grill on the Tomahawk is the same one as used on Blox earbuds. They are as big but for I think that Tomahawk is a little bit easier to get a good fit.


----------



## Zani004

danneq said:


> Monks use the old Sennheiser MX400 housing, the same as Blox and many other Chinese brands use. Tomahawk uses a housing that seems to be custom made. The front/grill on the Tomahawk is the same one as used on Blox earbuds. They are as big but for I think that Tomahawk is a little bit easier to get a good fit.


 
  
 I couldn't get a comfortable fit with the Monks, they kept losing their seal (with full covers), and although the Tomahawks appear the same size, they're shaped differently and were no trouble to fit. Of course everyone's ears are different.


----------



## jant71

Anyone know about these?? Want to get a handle on the tuning differences of the E2, E3, and E4...
  

 



2016 New Arrived ES-E4 Hifi In Ear Earbuds In Ear... *US $43.00* / piece

  
 



2016 New Arrived ES-E3 Hifi In Ear Earbuds In Ear... *US $45.00* / piece

  
 



2016 New Arrived ES-E2 Extreme Queen In Ear Earbuds In... *US $49.00* / piece

  
 



2016 New Arrived ES-E1 In Ear Earbuds In Ear Earphone... *US $13.90* / piece


----------



## AudioNewbi3

@Bloodypenguine have you received your Tomahawks and Tings yet?


----------



## golov17

satansmutt said:


> I've also got the Edifier H185 although a different sound signature from the monks they are a very good cheap earbuds. I bought them along with a pair of Edifier H101 and they are both excellent for their price. I use them every day in rotation with the monks while out walking my dogs where I have learnt to my cost that it is better to leave the expensive earphones in the house and find a cheap decent pair out with me lol


 This?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> @Bloodypenguine have you received your Tomahawks and Tings yet?


 

 Tomahawks yes.  Tings no (they just left China unfortunately). 
  
 I've been burning in the Tomahawks for almost 10 hours now.  Going to give them a little more time, pull an all nighter and hopefully have up a full review very, very soon.
  
 --


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> Tomahawks yes.  Tings no (they just left China unfortunately).
> 
> I've been burning in the Tomahawks for almost 10 hours now.  Going to give them a little more time, pull an all nighter and hopefully have up a full review very, very soon.
> 
> --


 
 Links!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Once you are done with your review. Thanks mate!


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Links!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Once you are done with your review. Thanks mate!


 http://www.head-fi.org/t/753577/mrz-tomahawk-music-maker-earbuds#post_12384222


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/753577/mrz-tomahawk-music-maker-earbuds#post_12384222


 

 Yes, that is my link for more info on the Tomahawk, but the review link will be up in hopefully very soon.
  
 Ok, back to work I go.
  
 --


----------



## music4mhell

bloodypenguin said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.head-fi.org/t/753577/mrz-tomahawk-music-maker-earbuds#post_12384222
> ...


 
 Please share an early impression for Tomahwak with respect to other high end earbuds.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

music4mhell said:


> Please share an early impression for Tomahwak with respect to other high end earbuds.


 

 Early impressions are good.  Unfortunately I do not have many of the High-End Earbuds to compare the Tomahawk with.
  
 The two best earphones I currently own are the VE Asura 1.0 and the Earbud Thailand BOE.  I will include these two comparisons in my full review of the Tomahawk, which I am trying very hard to finish.
  
 I then have the MrZ MusicMaker Ting and Dark Horse G400/Seahf 400 in route and I will add those to my full review as they arrive.
  
 I wish I could compare them to the Zen 1.0 & 2.0, but as of now, I have never had the chance to listen to either one.
  
 --


----------



## music4mhell

Hey guys,
  
 Any1 know about Surnrise SW-Deagon SWD2 SR120 Titanium Diaphragm ?


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Any1 know about Surnrise SW-Deagon SWD2 SR120 Titanium Diaphragm ?


 http://www.head-fi.org/t/657551/review-sunrise-audio-charm3-and-dragon2


----------



## music4mhell

Hey guys,
  
 I just ordered  Ting, Dark horse(400 Ohms), Cygnus and Ostry KC08.
 Let see how long it will take to reach 
  
 Did i miss any other good earbud other than Sunrise Dragon2 ?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

music4mhell said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I just ordered  Ting, Dark horse(400 Ohms), Cygnus and Ostry KC08.
> Let see how long it will take to reach
> ...


 
 Wow, that is a loooot of money....at least from my perspective hahaha


----------



## yacobx

ozkan said:


> I bet Monk can beat Tomahawk when you add 75 ohm adapter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I agree with this. One of my amps has an 75ohm adapter on it and it helps the monk, I really enjoy the monk.


----------



## music4mhell

audionewbi3 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Hey guys,
> ...


 
 I couldn't add Assura, Tomahwak, HisoundAudio Living and Sunrise  , may be next month .. no money left for this month


----------



## Danneq

yacobx said:


> I agree with this. One of my amps has an 75ohm adapter on it and it helps the monk, I really enjoy the monk.


 


 I've got one 75ohm adapter and one 150ohm adapter and I tried the 75ohm one with my Monks yesterday. Better weight in the bass area, but I still felt that Tomahawk had better balance and more "body" to the music.
  


music4mhell said:


> I couldn't add Assura, Tomahwak, HisoundAudio Living and Sunrise  , may be next month .. no money left for this month


 

 I've got a pair of Hisoundaudio Living for sale...


----------



## music4mhell

How do you compare HisoundAudio living to Tomahawaks ?


----------



## Danneq

I prefer Tomahawk. I am sensitive to sibilance and the treble on the Living is quite strong and with some songs and sources it can be a bit sibilant...


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> I prefer Tomahawk. I am sensitive to sibilance and the treble on the Living is quite strong and with some songs and sources it can be a bit sibilant...


also, like AKG K326..


----------



## Danneq

I have not heard K326. How are they compared to K319?


----------



## WillTirta

clieos said:


> Just want to shout out for Ostry KC08 as it doesn't seem to get much attention after release. I brought it to CanJam Singapore and let a couple of local Head-fier tried it out and the feedback are all very positive. Mind of that some of them are MX985 and Zen owner.


 
YESS.. i love ostry too.. have been trying:
Zen 2.0
Shozy Cygnus
Tomahawk
And Ostry KC08

Each has their own strength, but betwwen these Four i Prefer Vzen When in need of warmer sound and Ostry KC08 which followed by Cygnus to get detailed and brighter sound..
I put Kc08 ahead Cygnus because in my preference, Kc08 has better Bass whuch is in the balanced amount..
So i also agree with Clieos you guys should try this onee too..

..
I don‘t really prefer tomahawk.. its a bit harsh in my ear..


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> I have not heard K326. How are they compared to K319?


k326 drivers are smaller in size, and are more prone to hiss. k319 still have the most balanced sound of all, and is one of my favorite (about Tone)


----------



## music4mhell

willtirta said:


> clieos said:
> 
> 
> > Just want to shout out for Ostry KC08 as it doesn't seem to get much attention after release. I brought it to CanJam Singapore and let a couple of local Head-fier tried it out and the feedback are all very positive. Mind of that some of them are MX985 and Zen owner.
> ...


 
 I am really happy that you have put Ostry, Cygnus on the same line with Zen 2.0.
 I am glad that i ordered these


----------



## Danneq

Don't forget Ting! It should be an improvement of Tomahawk. I see Tomahawk as a sort of upgraded Monk with an overall similar sound (and somewhat sharp highs that are reduced by full foams - at least for me). And Ting is supposed to be better at just about everything compared to Tomahawk.

 My shopping list this spring is already full! Ting, KC08, Cygnus...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I was trying to finish my Tomahawk review tonight, but it is super late and I am getting really tired.
  
 In the meantime, here is a teaser photo from my shoot:
  
  

  
  
 --


----------



## ForceMajeure

Boy this thread is on fire, new golden era for buds?...


----------



## yacobx

forcemajeure said:


> Boy this thread is on fire, new golden era for buds?...


 
 The history books will mention us for being the driving factor for reviving the wonderful world of earbuds


----------



## golov17

Earbuds forever!


----------



## music4mhell

Hail Earbuds,
  
 I am just a newbie, let see how long it will take me to make a good collection of earbuds.


----------



## B9Scrambler

These look interesting: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-New-Arrived-ES-E4-Hifi-In-Ear-Earbuds-In-Ear-Earphone-Alloy-Tune-Earbuds-DIY/519064_32614629171.html
  
 In the first few pictures they are open backed, in the final few they are closed. I am wondering if the back cap screws off so you can swap them from open to closed. An earbud with tuning filters perhaps?


----------



## Danneq

b9scrambler said:


> These look interesting: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-New-Arrived-ES-E4-Hifi-In-Ear-Earbuds-In-Ear-Earphone-Alloy-Tune-Earbuds-DIY/519064_32614629171.html
> 
> In the first few pictures they are open backed, in the final few they are closed. I am wondering if the back cap screws off so you can swap them from open to closed. An earbud with tuning filters perhaps?


 


Same ones here from a different seller who's had them for a month or 2. Still no buyers, though. I think Easy Earphone even used some of the same photos.

 Different names, though (ES-E4 at Easy Earphone and Dark Horse Audio DHUN1 at Goals Smart-life mall).

 It would be interesting if you could change from open to closed.

 I've got 3 earbuds with filters in the back: Celsus Gramo One, Astrotec Lyra and Knowledge Zenith OMX2. The only ones that are affected if you block the filters are the Gramo One...


----------



## golov17

Open back Cresyn c500e


----------



## AudioNewbi3

yacobx said:


> The history books will mention us for being the driving factor for reviving the wonderful world of earbuds


 
  I like the sound of that. Imagine reading an audio related magazine

 "Flame of earbud Renaissance started by head-fi members of the Earbuds round-up thread" hahaha


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> Open back Cresyn c500e


 
  
 O.o Looks interesting.


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> O.o Looks interesting.


yeah


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> yeah


 
  
 If ClieOS is the King of earbuds, then I think you would be the Prince of Earbuds. 

 How do they sound? Are they worth it?


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> If ClieOS is the King of earbuds, then I think you would be the Prince of Earbuds.
> 
> 
> How do they sound? Are they worth it?


light sound, for lovers.. Dunu ex150 & Meizu ep21hd


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> light sound, for lovers.. Dunu ex150 & Meizu ep21hd


 
  
 Can you kindly elaborate more on light sound? Does it mean airy sound? 
 Do they sound similar to the Dunu and Meizu?


----------



## golov17

yes, similar sig, but DUNU 150 Ohm, Meizu 128 Ohm, Cresyn 32 Ohm


----------



## golov17

Also, old thread, but..
http://www.head-fi.org/t/371235/earbud-buyers-guide-feat-tm5-ok1-pk1-ath-cm700-ok2-k319-ok3-pk3-pk2


----------



## AudioNewbi3

@golov17 now you got me interested in the DUNU EX150's..........Do you have them?


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> @golov17
> now you got me interested in the DUNU EX150's..........Do you have them?



Although, in fact, they look better than playing


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


>


 
 Nice! How do they sound? Are they mid centric, bass heavy? Or are they airy with a wide sound stage?


----------



## golov17

little bass more air


----------



## ozkan

golov17 said:


> little bass more air




Do you also have Aiwa hp-v99?


----------



## golov17

Unfortunately, at that time I prefer a stationary audio and was not interested in earbuds, except for Sony Walkman


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Whooo Hoo!  Finally finished my review of the *MrZ MusicMaker Tomahawk*.
  
 Spoiler Alert, I really like it!  
  

  
 You can find it here:  http://www.head-fi.org/products/musicmaker-mrz-tomahawk-hifi-earbud/reviews/15402
  
 --


----------



## Danneq

Will read the Tomahawk review ASAP!

 About the silver color. Do you think it is a sort of aluminum basic color that is polished or do you think that is it silver color that is painted on?

 I thought the silver ones looked a bit silly on Aliexpress photos, but you photos really make them look good!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

danneq said:


> Will read the Tomahawk review ASAP!
> 
> About the silver color. Do you think it is a sort of aluminum basic color that is polished or do you think that is it silver color that is painted on?
> 
> I thought the silver ones looked a bit silly on Aliexpress photos, but you photos really make them look good!


 
  
@Danneq, I studied the Silver Tomahawk very closely.  It seems to me that the housing is the actual buffed metal and not painted on.  I won't say I am 100% sure, more like 95% sure.  It looks REALLY good in person.  
  
 EDIT:  I wonder if the Black Version is Actually the Silver Version Painted?  Not sure.
  
  
 The cable is also really nice, though a bit rubbery and a tad sticky, but I like it.
  
 I tried to get a close up as I could with my photos so people could really see how well these are made.
  
 --


----------



## Danneq

bloodypenguin said:


> @Danneq
> , I studied the Silver Tomahawk very closely.  It seems to me that the housing is the actual buffed metal and not painted on.  I won't say I am 100% sure, more like 95% sure.  It looks REALLY good in person.
> 
> EDIT:  I wonder if the Black Version is Actually the Silver Version Painted?  Not sure.




That might be the case. The black Tomahawks might be painted.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> little bass more air




Ah I see I see. Thanks fir the info mate!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> Whooo Hoo!  Finally finished my review of the *MrZ MusicMaker Tomahawk*.
> 
> Spoiler Alert, I really like it!
> 
> ...




Thank you for taking the time and effort to review the Tomahawks. It was easy to understand.

Now to compare it to the Darkhorse and Tings. Can't wait!

Edit: Sorry for asking, but I thought a mid-centric sound was unable to produce a wide soundstage? In my limited knowledge, I accustom wide stage to v shape sig.


----------



## music4mhell

bloodypenguin said:


> Whooo Hoo!  Finally finished my review of the *MrZ MusicMaker Tomahawk*.
> 
> Spoiler Alert, I really like it!
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you so much for the great review.
  
 I will compare Zen 2.0, Ting, Dark Horse G400, Cygnus, Ostry all together


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Anyone heard of them before?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vivanco-SRE-80-Stereo-Headphones-Black-black/dp/B000KPQ4KA


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Anyone heard of them before?
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vivanco-SRE-80-Stereo-Headphones-Black-black/dp/B000KPQ4KA


http://m.ebay.com/itm/VIVANCO-SRE-80-22090-BRILLIANT-SOUND-STEREO-IN-EAR-HEADPHONES-/261818899512
Unknown horse


----------



## Danneq

Not very bassy sound according to reviews on German Amazon (translated into English...)


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> http://m.ebay.com/itm/VIVANCO-SRE-80-22090-BRILLIANT-SOUND-STEREO-IN-EAR-HEADPHONES-/261818899512
> Unknown horse


 
  
  


danneq said:


> Not very bassy sound according to reviews on German Amazon (translated into English...)


 
  
 I see I see. I guess it's not worth it then.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Lately, I have been considering to buy the Tomahawks instead of the Tings. 

 Main reason is due to I found some vintage buds on Taobao, are these worth it?
  
 AIWA V061
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5-c.w4002-1245498853.71.YKHbuF&id=522123111975
  
 NoBrand OEM AIWA'S ?
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5-c.w4002-1259749696.22.HbMjF4&id=39404305406
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=2013.1.20141003.8.UYCnF3&scm=1007.10011.21135.100200300000004&id=38861926700&pvid=0ebe98c5-4234-4fe5-ab6f-b88eff6a9ad7
  
 JVC's
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5-c.w4002-2090463127.109.O6xKcu&id=40825121925
  
 No Brand Blue Red (maybe Goldstar? inquired the seller and was told it was either made in the US or Korea)
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z0d.6639537.1997196601.15.k9NUmF&id=524552942556
  

 Most of them are NOS.


----------



## Danneq

I've got a few vintage earbuds myself, mainly Sony and Aiwa. I'm not familiar with the ones in your links. The low price is good. But lower end vintage earbuds usually do not sound that good. The high end ones can sound as good as the best ones today or even better, but then you will have to pay a lot or be lucky to find a pair cheap...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> I've got a few vintage earbuds myself, mainly Sony and Aiwa. I'm not familiar with the ones in your links. The low price is good. But lower end vintage earbuds usually do not sound that good. The high end ones can sound as good as the best ones today or even better, but then you will have to pay a lot or be lucky to find a pair cheap...


 
  
 Guess, by purchasing either of the above mentioned, I really am taking a gamble aren't I?


----------



## ozkan

audionewbi3 said:


> Guess, by purchasing either of the above mentioned, I really am taking a gamble aren't I?




As far as I remember Aiwa V061 was quite good when I had them 20 years ago.


----------



## Decommo

Just got exercise earbud Panasonic RP-HS33 for jogging. To my surprise, it sounds pretty good for cheap exercise water resistant earbud.


----------



## music4mhell

This thread is on a roll.


----------



## supplehope

Although not an earbud user myself, I am honestly glad to see this thread and the people that truly loves earbuds this dedicated.

Here in Singapore, it is impossible for me to find any decent earbuds unless I go online (don't have the ability to do that for now).

I did had a chance to tried out the very first VE Zen and Asura a very long time ago. I was like: "How earbuds can sound so good?"

At least, I am going to have the KC08, so I will have a real taste of how good can earbuds sound soon.

Keep the train going guys!


----------



## music4mhell

Any new good earbud in the market 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ?


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> Any new good earbud in the market
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Not since yesterday.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> Not since yesterday.


 
 What came out yesterday?


----------



## golov17

http://m.pcpop.com/article_1023045.html


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> What came out yesterday?


 

  
 I mean, that nothing new has been released since yesterday...
  
  


golov17 said:


> http://m.pcpop.com/article_1023045.html


 

 http://www.head-fi.org/t/738087/akg-y15-and-y16a-earbuds-theyre-pretty-good


----------



## golov17

K318 sensitivity 127 vs 93 of the y15,16


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> I mean, that nothing new has been released since yesterday...


 
 Ah, I see I see. Sorry for misunderstanding


----------



## WillTirta

Just tease every one here..lol.. since ostry seems underated..this one has become my daily earphone for a week now.. since i am not good at review i cannot write a review.. but one think for sure.. this earbud build quality is great.. but i havent found suitable foam for this.. maybe will try hiegi sooms since it really comfy with my zen and cygnus.. ma6 be for ostry too..


----------



## Zani004

willtirta said:


> Just tease every one here..lol.. since ostry seems underated..this one has become my daily earphone for a week now.. since i am not good at review i cannot write a review.. but one think for sure.. this earbud build quality is great.. but i havent found suitable foam for this.. maybe will try hiegi sooms since it really comfy with my zen and cygnus.. ma6 be for ostry too..


 

 Don't need a review, but a few impressions and how it compares to those other two, would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## supplehope

willtirta said:


> Just tease every one here..lol.. since ostry seems underated..this one has become my daily earphone for a week now.. since i am not good at review i cannot write a review.. but one think for sure.. this earbud build quality is great.. but i havent found suitable foam for this.. maybe will try hiegi sooms since it really comfy with my zen and cygnus.. ma6 be for ostry too..



Nice to see another KC08 user. Good luck on finding the right foams!
I will give a little bit of my impressions about them as soon as I have a listen to these.
PS: The build and the cable of KC08 is really amazing. Nothing is like this for 599 Chinese Yuen.


----------



## golov17

I heard about the different versions kc08 for the Chinese and international markets, any thoughts on the matter, guys?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Guys, I have just pulled the trigger on these:

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.T732cU&id=39404305406&_u=42i926djf85e
  
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.T732cU&id=40405680265&_u=42i926djacfa
  
 While my DIY Dual driver and Hifiman ES100 just arrived today. Safe to say at this point in time,I listen to earbuds more than my IEM's.
  
 By the way, I got my ES100 and HM700S through a Chinese Lunar New Year "Lucky Bag" draw whereby participants for RMB399 have a chance to get either A 601, 602, 603 or HM 700 or 700s with ES100  
http://world.tmall.com/item/526937484700.htm?id=526937484700&spm=a1z09.2.0.0.T732cU&_u=42i926dj51f0


----------



## Raketen

ooh... did discover a good use for the Audio Technica 707's- great for low volume listening without the foams- just got back from a week long trip where I couldn't have isolation or lug around a bunch of stuff, so took just them with my walkman and was surprisingly satisfied with it... little more reluctant to get rid of them now- collecting instinct is my worst enemy


----------



## WillTirta

zani004 said:


> Don't need a review, but a few impressions and how it compares to those other two, would be greatly appreciated.




I have in thebprevious post..


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> I heard about the different versions kc08 for the Chinese and international markets, any thoughts on the matter, guys?


 
 I ordered from Penon Audio, hope they give the chinese version.


----------



## Danneq

BloodyPenguin's review of Tomahawk is featured on the front page! Hopefully that will open more people's eyes to the Tomahawks!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

danneq said:


> BloodyPenguin's review of Tomahawk is featured on the front page! Hopefully that will open more people's eyes to the Tomahawks!


 
  
 Yes, I just saw that too!  It was quite a nice surprise.  
  
 As of all the earbuds I have tried thus far, the Tomahawk is by far my favorite.  Things could change soon, as the Ting should be arriving any day now.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 No idea still where the Dark Horse G400/Seahf 400 is at this point...  I'll just have to keep my eye out for it.
  
 --


----------



## music4mhell

bloodypenguin said:


> danneq said:
> 
> 
> > BloodyPenguin's review of Tomahawk is featured on the front page! Hopefully that will open more people's eyes to the Tomahawks!
> ...




We r eagerly waiting for ur early comparision...


----------



## music4mhell

How is soundmagic ep30 ?
i have ep20, and it's one of the worst earbud


----------



## ozkan

bloodypenguin said:


> Yes, I just saw that too!  It was quite a nice surprise.
> 
> As of all the earbuds I have tried thus far, the Tomahawk is by far my favorite.  Things could change soon, as the Ting should be arriving any day now.
> 
> ...




I think you got the Monk. How does it compare to the Tomahawks?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

ozkan said:


> I think you got the Monk. How does it compare to the Tomahawks?




I will try and compare the two when I can. I tried last night, but our 10 month old had other plans.

--


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Just wanted to know, how do you guys burn in your earbuds? 

White Noise, Pink Noise?
Volume?
Duration?
Any rest period?


----------



## golov17

http://s.aliexpress.com/ZBN7V3uE

 It really works, I recommend. It changes the sound of any earbuds. I like


----------



## satansmutt

golov17 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/ZBN7V3uE
> 
> It really works, I recommend. It changes the sound of any earbuds. I like


 
  
 Man of few words. More details please


----------



## golov17

It is difficult to explain the changes in emphasis and tone balance. Just try it.


----------



## satansmutt

Ok I will give them a try but I warn you if the don't make a huge difference to my earbuds I will hunt you down and beat you about the head with them until you say ouch! haha


----------



## golov17

satansmutt said:


> Ok I will give them a try but I warn you if the don't make a huge difference to my earbuds I will hunt you down and beat you about the head with them until you say ouch! haha  :atsmile:


----------



## ozkan

Haha I love you and this thread guys.


----------



## jant71

I order them earlier along with a Dark Horse ES-E4. Ordered with EMS as well so they should be here soon enough
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 Easy stocks good stuff so worth a try at $11-ish.


----------



## golov17

jant71 said:


> I order them earlier along with a Dark Horse ES-E4. Ordered with EMS as well so they should be here soon enough:bigsmile_face:
> Easy stocks good stuff so worth a try at $11-ish.


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/ZBN7V3uE
> 
> It really works, I recommend. It changes the sound of any earbuds. I like




It sounds like snake oil, but it's not too expensive for 3 plugs. So I might test it. But then you don't really need to buy new earbuds, just use these to change the sound... :rolleyes:


----------



## veikko77

danneq said:


> It sounds like snake oil, but it's not too expensive for 3 plugs. So I might test it. But then you don't really need to buy new earbuds, just use these to change the sound...


 

 Really wondering too what those do.


----------



## jant71

Not really too much snake oil. I can hook up my Ety P-to S and it will reduce bass and tend to flatten the F.R. of certain phones to a certain degree like the A is supposed to. Assuming we have the same sort of thing here perhaps for all three ways; treble reduction, bass reduction, and both I guess. It does have that line about 8-40 Ohm headphones seeing impedance difference. Though not sure about the soundstage expansion esp. when you reduce bass and treble to bring vocals up. Only thing there might be extra separation of the channels to work the stage there and not on the other two. Or something like that which makes it sound analytical not really increasing resolution but allowing you to maybe hear things easier than before.  Easier to pick out with spacing things. 
  
 Fun to try. Not gonna expect that much. I was gonna buy an lower value impedance adapter than the Ety I have and I think one is in there for about the same price plus two more cables thrown in is a good deal.


----------



## Raketen

veikko77 said:


> Really wondering too what those do.


 
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/musings-headphone-amplifier-output-impedance


----------



## Danneq

I didn't look through the ad carefully before writing my post. At first I thought it was just a silver plated cable adapter, and I was really doubtful that sound will improve if you plug in a plug with a short silver plated cable.

 But it probably works like an impedance adapter. For such a low price it's worth trying if you are curious...


----------



## golov17

By analogy, it is like adding seasoning or spices to your favorite dish to achieve a better synergy with different DAPs and etc..


Spoiler



ABC is BGVP years of research experience in the electro-acoustic tuning product design, install it with a headset attachment between the tront end, directly on the headset, the headset inherent change and improve sound quality It can not only change the high, medium and low volume, you can adjust the sound tieid, resolution, and other voice characteristics. The effect is obvious accuracy, high reliability, ease of operation. ABC line can be freely combined, make a pair of headphones to have at least eight different sound effects. Respond to various types of music


----------



## AudioNewbi3

My brief impression of the 西湖DIY Dual Drivers:

 1. They sound very much like / close to my Hifiman RE400
 2. Sound-stage is extremely wide, wider than my Seahf 320Ohms and ATH EW-9 (Both which I consider wide sounding)
 3. They sound very "lean and dry", like drinking dry white wine
 4. Mids, to my ears at leasts, sounds a bit recessed. Just a weeeeeeeeee bit
 5. Bass is very very lean. 
 6. Detail is on-par or even above the Hifiman RE400. No, they are definitely above.
 7. They work oh so well for orchestral pieces, close your eyes and you will feel like you are sitting in the front 3rd or 4th roll of the concert.
 8. They sound meh......for modern music. 
 9. Cymbals, snares, guitar strings...sound oh so damn good.
 10. For Jazz vocal, (i.e. Shigeko Suzuki) sounds very good, the subtle details in music can be heard, however, the 'warm" feeling I get from listening to Jazz Vocals is lost. The buds managed to turn the whole song "cold" or less intimidate.

@ClieOS, does your pair sound like mine?


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> My brief impression of the 西湖DIY Dual Drivers:
> 
> 1. They sound very much like / close to my Hifiman RE400
> 2. Sound-stage is extremely wide, wider than my Seahf 320Ohms and ATH EW-9 (Both which I consider wide sounding)
> ...


 
  
 I don't compare IEM to earbuds but otherwise I think you description is pretty close to to  mine. You might want to play with the foam pad to get better fit and bass might come out just a little more. I use mine with donut.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> I don't compare IEM to earbuds but otherwise I think you description is pretty close to to  mine. You might want to play with the foam pad to get better fit and bass might come out just a little more. I use mine with donut.


 
 Thanks for the reply mate! I will wait for my Hiegi doughnuts to arrive from taobao and give them a try. I currently use mine naked.


----------



## mc0ne

Dear ClieOS,
  
 thanks for your reviews and overview, have used it in the past many times! 
  
 Wanted to ask, if you had the chance to listen to the VE Monk earbuds and if yes, where would you place them in your listing?
  
 Haven't read many pages, so if the question has already been asked, sorry for that! 
  
 Thanks and greetings


----------



## Nec3

Just dropping this here to remind everyone what branding does. Did I mention I don't even use a case for the E100's? I sleep on them, stuff them in a side pocket, toss them in wooden boxes... Bose IE2's? I keep the IE2's in the case they came with, use them strictly for running and pretty much had to repair them 3 times because of terrible strain relief! Then one day I pulled them out of my phone and had to use super glue and a Q-Tip to remove the jack tip that was stuck inside my phone!



danneq said:


> It sounds like snake oil, but it's not too expensive for 3 plugs. So I might test it. But then you don't really need to buy new earbuds, just use these to change the sound...


 It's still going to go through a copper cable after. I had silver cables before, and if I recall it sounds more like conductivity. On the Etymotic ER4, less resistance in the cable meant a brighter signature that equated to an ER4PT, more resistance meant more bass quantity, turning it into an ER4S.


----------



## golov17

Future Venture Electronics, wait


----------



## ClieOS

mc0ne said:


> Dear ClieOS,
> 
> thanks for your reviews and overview, have used it in the past many times!
> 
> ...


 
  
 I do have a pair of Monk. Haven't really give it a lot of thought regarding raking but I'll say, probably somewhere in the upper tier of 'The Good'.


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> Future Venture Electronics, wait


 
 When it will launch ?


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> When it will launch ?


details unknown


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > When it will launch ?
> ...


 
 Ohk let me start saving money then


----------



## Tarnum

@Danneq: I just received Tomahawk today. Need time to burn-in but first impression is very nice earbud, sound rather balance with "Hi-fi" taste. It makes me remember the sound-sign of the Ubiquo ES-1103 or ES-1003 series. Compare to the VE Monk that I gave my friend as gift: obvious better, more life-like in vocal, more detail, and just a little bit deeper in bass. Compare to my beloved Baldoor E100: Tomahawk has better treble extension, bigger sound-stage and a little better in vocal, however E100 has better bass (very clear winner), the "background bass" can appear in E100, while lacking in Tomahawk (for ex: the song "The Puppet Opera" of Stockfisch Record).
 For my ear, overall sound:
 -VE Monk is really like a monk, calm-down, relaxed, wide sound-stage and emotionless vocal. 7/10.
 -Baldoor E100 (my best E100 pair): really nice bass, everything cohesive, sweet voice, smooth but still energetic, emotional. 8.5/10.
 -Tomahawk: balance between relaxed and energetic, 3D-soundstage, high detail (make Hi-fi taste). 9/10. 
           
 Hearing this sond with Tomahawk is nice:


----------



## music4mhell

tarnum said:


> @Danneq: I just received Tomahawk today. Need time to burn-in but first impression is very nice earbud, sound rather balance with "Hi-fi" taste. It makes me remember the sound-sign of the Ubiquo ES-1103 or ES-1003 series. Compare to the VE Monk that I gave my friend as gift: obvious better, more life-like in vocal, more detail, and just a little bit deeper in bass. Compare to my beloved Baldoor E100: Tomahawk has better treble extension, bigger sound-stage and a little better in vocal, however E100 has better bass (very clear winner), the "background bass" can appear in E100, while lacking in Tomahawk (for ex: the song "The Puppet Opera" of Stockfisch Record).
> For my ear, overall sound:
> -VE Monk is really like a monk, calm-down, relaxed, wide sound-stage and emotionless vocal. 7/10.
> -Baldoor E100 (my best E100 pair): really nice bass, everything cohesive, sweet voice, smooth but still energetic, emotional. 8.5/10.
> ...


 
 Thanks a lot for your short review 
 Do you have any other Highend Earbuds like Assura/Zen ? or something else ?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I would also like to add a bit about the Monk vs. Tomahawk. 
  
 I am quoting what I just put up in my Official Review of the MrZ MusicMaker Tomahawk. 
  
 Quote (Myself): 





> Thank you @Danneq for stepping in with answering few of these questions and comparisons.
> 
> I really did not want to mention the Monk along side the Tomahawk as both are in completely different price brackets.  Though, there seems to be a lot of interest between the two.  So, I decided to spent a LOT of time with the Monk and Tomahawk the last few days.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'd also like to say that I am very much in agreement of @Tarnum's thoughts of the Monk and Tomahawk, I think he is hearing them like I am.
  
 --


----------



## Tarnum

@music4mhell: I haven't heard MX985 or Zen or TM7, the only high-end earbud I heard is Ubiquo ES1103 Grandiose, which combine mid/treble of Tomahawk (with a little more impactful) + bass of my Baldoor E100 (a little lesser in quantity), which is 10/10 for me.


----------



## Whataudiophile

taobao


bloodypenguin said:


> I would also like to add a bit about the Monk vs. Tomahawk.
> 
> I am quoting what I just put up in my Official Review of the MrZ MusicMaker Tomahawk.
> 
> ...


 

 Dude,is Tomahawk available only on ''taobao''?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

whataudiophile said:


> taobao
> 
> Dude,is Tomahawk available only on ''taobao''?


 

 Not at all, I have a link for it on AliExpress on my review:  >*CLICK HERE*<
  
 --


----------



## Zani004

tarnum said:


> @music4mhell: I haven't heard MX985 or Zen or TM7, the only high-end earbud I heard is Ubiquo ES1103 Grandiose, which combine mid/treble of Tomahawk (with a little more impactful) + bass of my Baldoor E100 (a little lesser in quantity), which is 10/10 for me.


 

 I hadn't heard of the Ubiquo before, but it has my attention now. Pretty spendy though at about $212 AUS on gmarket.
  
 https://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=ko&u=http://www.buyking.com/news/2015/08/news201508260954046&prev=search


----------



## music4mhell

tarnum said:


> @music4mhell: I haven't heard MX985 or Zen or TM7, the only high-end earbud I heard is Ubiquo ES1103 Grandiose, which combine mid/treble of Tomahawk (with a little more impactful) + bass of my Baldoor E100 (a little lesser in quantity), which is 10/10 for me.


 
 I have ordered the latest version of Tomahawk, i.e. Musicmaker TING(2016), i am thinking should i order the Tomahwaks too 
 I am so confused !


----------



## AudioNewbi3

music4mhell said:


> I have ordered the latest version of Tomahawk, i.e. Musicmaker TING(2016), i am thinking should i order the Tomahwaks too
> I am so confused !


 
 If I am not mistaken, the Ting's are upgrade of the tomahawks, so I don't think you're missing out on anything.


----------



## Danneq

@Tarnum - Very nice impressions!
 I recently sold my last pair of Earbell and listened to them before I put them in the package. They sound really good, and I remember I paid around $18 for them. Great price for such a good sound. I almost regret selling them, but I have decided to focus on upper tier earbuds, that is, mainly what we can call "high end earbuds". Still, I'll keep my Monks. They sound very good paired with my new Cayin C5 amp with bass boost turned on.

 Now that you have got Tomahawk you have to buy Ting as well... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I haven't heard MX985, but MX980 should be about the same, and I rank my pair of 980 over Tomahawk. I also rank my pair of Blox TM7 over Tomahawk, as well as my vintage pair of Sony MDR E252 (it was released around 1982!).

 But Tomahawk definitely is in my top 5.

 Still there are some top end earbuds that I want to try: Music Maker Ting, VE Zen 1, Asura 2, Ostry KC08, Shozy Cygnus & Dunu Alpha 1.

 Poor wallet!!!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

danneq said:


> Still there are some top end earbuds that I want to try: VE Zen 1, Asura 2, Ostry KC08, Shozy Cygnus & Dunu Alpha 1.


 
  
 I want to try all of these as well!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 --


----------



## music4mhell

Just received Mrice E100, OK type sound.
  
 In a nutshell, Mrice E100 = Monk - Bit of bass + More of Mid and High freQ


----------



## mc0ne

Thanks @ClieOS for the info on the Monk regarding your ranking! 
  
 Interesting, that there is obviously much more room for SQ improvement, which is nice to hear (=
  
@music4mhell will receive a pair of E100 too. Sofar got the impression that it should have more bass than the Monk, but will report back aswell


----------



## golov17

http://m.fiio.net/en/products/52


----------



## Saoshyant

golov17 said:


> http://m.fiio.net/en/products/52


 
  
 That looks exactly like the earbud that came with the M3.  Haven't really given it a listen though.  I did find it amusing that the M3 came with an earbud with a mic.


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> That looks exactly like the earbud that came with the M3.  Haven't really given it a listen though.  I did find it amusing that the M3 came with an earbud with a mic.


47 Ohm? This other model with angle jack..


----------



## Saoshyant

Looking at the physical design of the earbud itself, and the keeping in mind the fact that this one is white where that one is black, except for the jack they look alike.  The different jack could indicate it's a different earbud just using the same shells, or it could be that they changed the jack to something people typically request when they started selling it.  Either way, I should give the ones I have a listen.


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> Looking at the physical design of the earbud itself, and the keeping in mind the fact that this one is white where that one is black, except for the jack they look alike.  The different jack could indicate it's a different earbud just using the same shells, or it could be that they changed the jack to something people typically request when they started selling it.  Either way, I should give the ones I have a listen.


This new model with twins housing, IMHO


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Brief impression of the Hifiman ES100
  
 1. Sound signature is warmer than DIY Dual Drivers, but not as warm as my SeaHf 320Ohms
 2. Sound-stage is just a tad wider than the Seahf 320Ohms (If not, they are the same)
 3. Detail are not as clear as the SeaHf or DIY Dual Drivers
 4. I guess, one could this a general purpose omnivorous hi-fi earbud?

 Ranking currently

 Details
 DIY Dual Drivers==>SeaHf320Ohms==>HifimanES100=SidyBGVPKT100
  
 Sound Stage
 DIY Dual Driver==>HifimanES100=/==>SeaHF320Ohms==========================>SidyBGVPKT100 
  
 Sound temperature spectrum
 DIY Dual Driver==========>HifimanES100==========>SeaHF320Ohms==========>SidyBGVPKT100
 Cold/Neutral/Airy                                Luke-Warm?                            Warm                                       Very Warm        
  
  
 *DIY Dual Driver running on Naked
 *All earphones save for the SeaHf and Sidy have less than 20 Hours of Burn in


----------



## Saoshyant

@AudioNewbi3 I really wanted to like the ES100...  maybe I need to try it with different sources and see if maybe it needs something to bring out it's potential.


----------



## Danneq

saoshyant said:


> @AudioNewbi3 I really wanted to like the ES100...  maybe I need to try it with different sources and see if maybe it needs something to bring out it's potential.


 
  
 Same here. It's got potential but there's just no "spark". Which is why I decided to sell my pair...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

saoshyant said:


> @AudioNewbi3 I really wanted to like the ES100...  maybe I need to try it with different sources and see if maybe it needs something to bring out it's potential.


 
 I don't think the ES100 and the Sidy BGVP KT100 are the same.

 Link to KT100
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.23.DnKxKk&id=520052981102&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail


----------



## Saoshyant

Never had a chance to listen to the KT100, but given your impressions of the two and it's relatively inexpensive cost, I may want to change that.
  
 I picked up the ES100 right when it first showed upon Penon Audio...  pretty sure that's who I bought it from at least.  I had an issue with something being loose in one of the earbuds, so had to have them sent back so they could be inspected and a new pair sent out.  I think it ended up being roughly 6 weeks after purchase before I had a working pair, and some extra cost too due to return shipping.  So, I suppose when I did listen to them, I very well might have been soured by the experience and never gave them a real chance.  I should dig them out and remedy that soon enough.
  
 Edit:  Ever just have one of those moments when you realize you "might" have done something stupid...  like possibly try out an earbud made by a very well respected company, but you never remembered to try them with foam covers to help with the seal?


----------



## Zani004

bloodypenguin said:


> I want to try all of these as well!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Do you have an ETA on the ting?


----------



## Danneq

jant71 said:


> I order them earlier along with a Dark Horse ES-E4. Ordered with EMS as well so they should be here soon enough
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I forgot... Please share your impressions of Dark Horse ES-E4. I'm very curious about all three Dark Horse earbuds in the Easy earphones store.


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> jant71 said:
> 
> 
> > I order them earlier along with a Dark Horse ES-E4. Ordered with EMS as well so they should be here soon enough
> ...


 
 I am also interested to know the performance of all Dark Horse Earbuds


----------



## golov17

Reviews and compare.. 
http://hifiearbuds.net


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> Reviews and compare..
> http://hifiearbuds.net


 

 Annoying that my Japanese is getting worse all the time. Well, at least the reading part...

 I used Google translate instead and here were comparisons between the Chinese version and the overseas version (apparently all Ostry KC08 sold outside of China have the same tuning):
  


> At the store, it was compared Japan plates by IC-CONNECT like regular agency and (= Overseas Version) the sound of the China domestic version. As mentioned in the text, the KC08 There are two types of different domestic Chinese version and the overseas edition of the tuning, but that of the "things that are regular sales in Japan" = "overseas edition".The tuning of the overseas edition, is so sound quality based on the feedback from countries including Japan have been adjusted. Comparing these two, a clear difference in sound quality was seen. Although both mid-range also does not change the dry trend, the center of gravity of the low frequency is lowered in the overseas edition, vocal range had changed to a more neutral direction. In addition, have also been suppressed hysterical stimulus of high frequency, we had the impression that has been totally brush up. When you purchase a KC08, not the China domestic version, we recommend the purchase of "overseas edition" that are regular sales in Japan.


 

 How do you tell the difference between the Chinese and the overseas version?


> as How to identify on the appearance of China's domestic version and the overseas edition (including Japan Version), there is a color of OSTRY's logo printed on the body. In China domestic version slender yellow character, overseas edition is printed in bold white letters.


 
  

 I'm going to Japan in May, but the Ostry are very expensive there, around twice as expensive as from Penon audio or from Aliexpress...
 20 000 yen from Yodobashi!!! 18 000 yen from E Earphone!!!

 But I think I would like the overseas version better than the Chinese one. But how to find it?


----------



## golov17

Good question.. 
Those who ordered them to the Penon, I hope, will give us detailed photos of the body and the logo that we could know


----------



## BloodyPenguin

zani004 said:


> Do you have an ETA on the ting?


 
  
 I might....  It may already be here....  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 [Quick Cellphone Picture]


  
 --


----------



## Saoshyant

@BloodyPenguin Those look absolutely gorgeous.


----------



## Danneq

More about the overseas version of KC08.

 Photos from E earphone's homepage (Japanese headphone seller with shops in Tokyo and Osaka):
  


Spoiler: Ostry KC08 overseas version



  
  
  


 
 Notice how "Ostry" is written in white letters...


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> More about the overseas version of KC08.
> 
> 
> Photos from E earphone's homepage (Japanese headphone seller with shops in Tokyo and Osaka):
> ...


big price


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> I might....  It may already be here....
> 
> 
> [Quick Cellphone Picture]
> ...


like it?


----------



## supplehope

Hmm honestly, I don't think there will be a lot of differences between the Chinese and the Japan versions of the KC08s. Just a guess.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> like it?


 

 I'm letting the Ting burn in for a while longer before I really give my thoughts, but so far, I'm liking the forward sound of the Tomahawk a bit better.
  
 ..


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> big price


 


 I know! It's about $100 if you buy it from Penon, and if you buy it inside of Japan it costs close to $200!

 But foreign products are always more expensive in Japan, while Japanese products are usually cheaper than abroad...


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> I'm letting the Ting burn in for a while longer before I really give my thoughts, but so far, I'm liking the forward sound of the Tomahawk a bit better.
> 
> ..


other sig..


----------



## Danneq

supplehope said:


> Hmm honestly, I don't think there will be a lot of differences between the Chinese and the Japan versions of the KC08s. Just a guess.


 

 According to the Japanese blog that golov17 linked to, the KC08 that are sold outside of China are tuned differently than the ones sold in China...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> other sig..


 
  
 Yes.
  
 So far the Ting has a more neutral signature than the Tomahawk.  
  
 --


----------



## supplehope

danneq said:


> According to the Japanese blog that golov17 linked to, the KC08 that are sold outside of China are tuned differently than the ones sold in China...


 

 Ohh pardon me. The only way to find out is to have both versions.


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> Yes.
> 
> So far the Ting has a more neutral signature than the Tomahawk.
> 
> --


Almost all high-end earbuds, sacrificing musicality, for the sake of technicality, IMHO
Therefore many like fun Ve Monk


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> Almost all high-end earbuds, sacrificing musicality, for the sake of technicality, IMHO
> Therefore many like fun Ve Monk


 
  
 Exactly why I like the Suvov S10/S20 so much, it is tons of fun.
  
  
 The Tomahawk, for me, has the best of both worlds;  High quality playback, with a fun signature..
  
 --


----------



## AudioNewbi3

saoshyant said:


> Never had a chance to listen to the KT100, but given your impressions of the two and it's relatively inexpensive cost, I may want to change that.
> 
> I picked up the ES100 right when it first showed upon Penon Audio...  pretty sure that's who I bought it from at least.  I had an issue with something being loose in one of the earbuds, so had to have them sent back so they could be inspected and a new pair sent out.  I think it ended up being roughly 6 weeks after purchase before I had a working pair, and some extra cost too due to return shipping.  So, I suppose when I did listen to them, I very well might have been soured by the experience and never gave them a real chance.  I should dig them out and remedy that soon enough.
> 
> Edit:  Ever just have one of those moments when you realize you "might" have done something stupid...  like possibly try out an earbud made by a very well respected company, but you never remembered to try them with foam covers to help with the seal?


 
 Please，do give the KT100 a try if you have the chance.


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> Exactly why I like the Suvov S10/S20 so much, it is tons of fun.
> 
> 
> The Tomahawk, for me, has the best of both worlds;  High quality playback, with a fun signature..
> ...


memorize


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> http://hifiearbuds.net


 
 Wohoo! A japanese website about hifi earbuds, now I have something to read (very slowly) regarding how Japanese think of earbuds. Thank Golov!


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Wohoo! A japanese website about hifi earbuds, now I have something to read (very slowly) regarding how Japanese think of earbuds. Thank Golov!


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Please，do give the KT100 a try if you have the chance.


+1


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> I might....  It may already be here....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sexy beast, looking forward to your review mate! 

 Any news on the SeaHF400Ohms? AKA Dark Horse? I am quite eager to know how they sound, so I can make a comparison between them and my 320.


----------



## golov17

http://s.aliexpress.com/y2aiINFN


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> Sexy beast, looking forward to your review mate!
> 
> Any news on the SeaHF400Ohms? AKA Dark Horse? I am quite eager to know how they sound, so I can make a comparison between them and my 320.


 
  
 I still have NO idea where the Dark Horse G400/Seahf 400 Ohm earbuds are.  Tracking seems to be all messed up.  I hope any day now.
  


 I also have a top secret earbud on the way.  Something completely different, that has never been mentioned on here...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Hope to have it soon as well.
  
 --


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> I still have NO idea where the Dark Horse G400/Seahf 400 Ohm earbuds are.  Tracking seems to be all messed up.  I hope any day now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fennix Viper?  


Spoiler


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> Fennix Viper?


 

 No, something very strange.  Nothing like a normal earbuds.
  
  
 I will post the secret product once I have it in about a week or so.  
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> No, something very strange.  Nothing like a normal earbuds.
> 
> 
> I will post the secret product once I have it in about a week or so.
> ...


OK, thanks


----------



## music4mhell

bloodypenguin said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > Fennix Viper?
> ...




Dunu Alpha ?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

music4mhell said:


> Dunu Alpha ?


 
  
 No, not those.  And pretty sure the Dunu Alpha has been mentioned in this thread.
  
 --


----------



## chompy

golov17 said:


> Reviews and compare..
> http://hifiearbuds.net


 
  
 Thanks,
  
 If I can trust Google Translator, does this mean that KC08 Chinese version has V shaped sound and international version is more neutral?


----------



## jant71

danneq said:


> I forgot... Please share your impressions of Dark Horse ES-E4. I'm very curious about all three Dark Horse earbuds in the Easy earphones store.


 

 Will do. Needless to say I am pretty curious myself.


----------



## Zani004

bloodypenguin said:


> Exactly why I like the Suvov S10/S20 so much, it is tons of fun.
> 
> 
> The Tomahawk, for me, has the best of both worlds;  High quality playback, with a fun signature..
> ...


 

 Can't wait for your Ting review, but glad now I didn't jump over Tomahawk and go straight for Ting.


----------



## golov17

Unknown korean buds for $20 
http://www.ixtin.com/ixtin/front/earphoneList.php


----------



## Decommo

golov17 said:


> Unknown korean buds for $20
> http://www.ixtin.com/ixtin/front/earphoneList.php




Looks very promising. How do we purchase it? I clicked purchase putton but does not do anything.


----------



## Decommo

decommo said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > Unknown korean buds for $20
> ...




It says that it took 2 years to develop this earbud.


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> Unknown korean buds for $20
> http://www.ixtin.com/ixtin/front/earphoneList.php


 
 I sent a mail, let see if they reply


----------



## Decommo

music4mhell said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > Unknown korean buds for $20
> ...



Awesome.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

*Quick Update*
  
 There is unfortunately going to be a delay on my Ting review.  An issue with the build (as they are handmade).
  
 For the replacement, I am going to get the red version.  It is going to be a few weeks, at least, before I can post up a full review.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 --


----------



## music4mhell

Just received Shozy Cygnus.
  
 Oh boy it sounds awesome, even it's just out of box.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

music4mhell said:


> Just received Shozy Cygnus.
> 
> Oh boy it sounds awesome, even it's just out of box.


 
 Maybe a brief impression?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> *Quick Update*
> 
> There is unfortunately going to be a delay on my Ting review.  An issue with the build (as they are handmade).
> 
> ...


 
 That is unfortunate, but is there any brief impressions?


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> *Quick Update*
> 
> There is unfortunately going to be a delay on my Ting review.  An issue with the build (as they are handmade).
> 
> ...


----------



## music4mhell

audionewbi3 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Just received Shozy Cygnus.
> ...


 
 Hmm,, ohk plz dont kill me, i think i will replace my daily driver Zen 2.
  
 Cygnus has all Zen SQ with more refined and Thump Bass ( I just loved it, all my office colleagues said it's better than Zen 2). It recreates the Bass which i feel with my Genelec Subwoofer which i feel at my home.


----------



## noxa

music4mhell said:


> Hmm,, ohk plz dont kill me, i think i will replace my daily driver Zen 2.
> 
> 
> 
> Cygnus has all Zen SQ with more refined and Thump Bass ( I just loved it, all my office colleagues said it's better than Zen 2). It recreates the Bass which i feel with my Genelec Subwoofer which i feel at my home.




X2, I can confirm that the Cygnus is better than the Zen 2.0 IMO. I listened very briefly but they just have a nicer signature to my ears, I personally found the Zen to be a bit too veiled for my liking, take with a pinch of salt though as I recieved my Stax at the same time as my Zen so they were going to sound veiled in comparison.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Nonononononono, my wallet is never going to forgive me now.....Why! oh WHY!


----------



## Saoshyant

Hmm, I very well might have to look into the Cygnus then.  The price isn't bad either!


----------



## music4mhell

I will do a full comparison after some days of use.


----------



## Danneq

saoshyant said:


> Hmm, I very well might have to look into the Cygnus then.  The price isn't bad either!


 

 And don't forget Ostry KC08 (overseas and/or Chinese version), Music maker Ting (and Tomahawk if you don't have it), Astrotec Lyra 6, Dunu Alpha 1, the three Dark Horse earbuds that Easy earphone is selling etc etc etc...


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> And don't forget Ostry KC08 (overseas and/or Chinese version), Music maker Ting (and Tomahawk if you don't have it), Astrotec Lyra 6, Dunu Alpha 1, the three Dark Horse earbuds that Easy earphone is selling etc etc etc...


+100500 lol 
Memory Blox's


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> +100500 lol
> Memory Blox's


 

 How do you tell the Blox BE earbuds apart? They are identical. I just sold my pair of BE3, so now I only have TM7 (I have previously owned M2C, ANV3 & BE3).


----------



## rggz

danneq said:


> And don't forget Ostry KC08 (overseas and/or Chinese version), Music maker Ting (and Tomahawk if you don't have it), Astrotec Lyra 6, Dunu Alpha 1, the three Dark Horse earbuds that Easy earphone is selling etc etc etc...


 

 Also you can pray for Lee finish the VE Nirvana, lol.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> +100500 lol
> Memory Blox's


 
 Mr Golov, mind telling what player and amplifier (portable only) do you use and own?


----------



## Danneq

rggz said:


> Also you can pray for Lee finish the VE Nirvana, lol.


 

 I just got a flash vision of my money flying out the window.

 Well, at least I'll listen to good music on good earbuds while that happens...


----------



## golov17

This train is always in motion ..


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> How do you tell the Blox BE earbuds apart? They are identical. I just sold my pair of BE3, so now I only have TM7 (I have previously owned M2C, ANV3 & BE3).


Easily distinguished by sound or resistance: 22,24,38,32 Ohm


----------



## music4mhell

rggz said:


> danneq said:
> 
> 
> > And don't forget Ostry KC08 (overseas and/or Chinese version), Music maker Ting (and Tomahawk if you don't have it), Astrotec Lyra 6, Dunu Alpha 1, the three Dark Horse earbuds that Easy earphone is selling etc etc etc...
> ...





It will release in 2017.


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Mr Golov, mind telling what player and amplifier (portable only) do you use and own?


Nationite Nanite N2, Newsmy G1, Colorfly ck4+, Meizu mx2, C&C bh2, Ve Runabout, Little Bear b3


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> Easily distinguished by sound or resistance: 22,24,38,32 Ohm


 


 Yeah, sound should tell them apart. But I mean if you use different cases or markings to tell them apart? I can see that one pair in the picture has got different color foams. It would be annoying to have to listen to the earbuds first when you just want to bring a special pair when going out...


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> Yeah, sound should tell them apart. But I mean if you use different cases or markings to tell them apart? I can see that one pair in the picture has got different color foams. It would be annoying to have to listen to the earbuds first when you just want to bring a special pair when going out...


Of course, there are visible differences, for convenience


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> Nationite Nanite N2, Newsmy G1, Colorfly ck4+, Meizu mx2, C&C bh2, Ve Runabout, Little Bear b3


 
 Thanks mate! May I kindly know what is your current most used/favorite combo?


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Thanks mate! May I kindly know what is your current most used/favorite combo?


With a variety of earbuds, types of music, mood, portability, always different


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> With a variety of earbuds, types of music, mood, portability, always different


 
 Alright, makes sense I guess. Thanks for the information mate!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> That is unfortunate, but is there any brief impressions?


 
  
 Neutral, simple and quality.
  


golov17 said:


>


 
  
 No worries, new one is already on the way!
  
  


> Originally Posted by @Danneq
> 
> Too bad. Did you buy them from Easy earphones? Hopefully their customer service is good...


 
  
 Yes, got them from Easy Earphones.  Their customer service is great.
  
 --


----------



## rggz

Just curious about Cygnus... Will this cable on Cygnus turning to green color after some time? It looks like my old Shure cable and "patina" effect is a little ugly but hopefully with Shure you can change the cable.


----------



## yacobx

noxa said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm,, ohk plz dont kill me, i think i will replace my daily driver Zen 2.
> ...




Hifibuds that jap website said the cyngus had a smaller sound stage and was bassier than the asura 2.0. Which sounds like a monk. Can you tell us what stands out better than the zen? P.s. I've always had my eye on the cyngus. I really want one just curious if its really worth it


----------



## music4mhell

yacobx said:


> noxa said:
> 
> 
> > music4mhell said:
> ...



Please wait 2/3 days,i will come with quantitative analysis


----------



## yacobx

music4mhell said:


> yacobx said:
> 
> 
> > noxa said:
> ...




Lol, welp. I just bought them. Couldn't wait as they are limited editions.


----------



## music4mhell

yacobx said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > yacobx said:
> ...


i bet u won't regret this decission..


----------



## noxa

yacobx said:


> Hifibuds that jap website said the cyngus had a smaller sound stage and was bassier than the asura 2.0. Which sounds like a monk. Can you tell us what stands out better than the zen? P.s. I've always had my eye on the cyngus. I really want one just curious if its really worth it




Well it was a very brief listen but you kind of answered your own question in the sense that I personally preferred the Monk to the Zen, my main gripe with the Zen was no matter the fit the sound felt high up in my head, poor description I know but it always felt as if I was looking up at the sound. For me the tonality of the Cygnet was a little cooler a little sharper and a tad more separated, I felt the Zen was a bit too cohesive but to others that would be seen as a major advantage.


----------



## ozkan

Finally I got my 75 ohm adapter from Bocur Audio which sounds amazing compared to the original Etymotic 75 ohm cable.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

ozkan said:


> Finally I got my 75 ohm adapter from Bocur Audio which sounds amazing compared to the original Etymotic 75 ohm cable.


 

 Purchase Link?


----------



## ozkan

bloodypenguin said:


> Purchase Link?



 
bocuraudio.com

http://m.ebay.com/itm/BOCUR-AUDIO-PURE-COPPER-99-99-75OHM-ADAPTER-CABLE-FREE-SHIPPING-TO-WORLDWIDE-/331798876094?nav=SEARCH


----------



## yacobx

noxa said:


> yacobx said:
> 
> 
> > Hifibuds that jap website said the cyngus had a smaller sound stage and was bassier than the asura 2.0. Which sounds like a monk. Can you tell us what stands out better than the zen? P.s. I've always had my eye on the cyngus. I really want one just curious if its really worth it
> ...




I can understand all of those points! The main thing is that you said you could hear sub bass. I miss the sub bass in my buds.


----------



## music4mhell

yacobx said:


> noxa said:
> 
> 
> > yacobx said:
> ...


 
 Yes dear, i was feeling the same like you.
 I have a 6 Inch Subwoofer from Genelec ($1000,  ), so i know how the real bass sounds. 
 I was missing that Sub, Mid and tight bass in my HD650, Zen 2. The bass is there in Monk, but i.e. Bloated bass, not fluid and smooth and tight and impact.
  
 In short, i got all the SQ which i get from my Studio monitors and SUB inside Cygnus  Eureka Eureka.
  
 It's not only me, my frnds, GF feel the same way. She uses Apple Earpods and she couldn't feel any difference between Earpod and HD650 or Earpod and Zen 2 (Obvi she is not an Audiophile Like me). But she instantly said that Cygnus is better that Earpods 
  
 My Ostry KC08, Ting and Dark Horse are on the way, once i get all these, i will think which earbud i will gift to my bro with Xduoo X3 
 For now, Cygnus surpassed my Zen 2 and HD650.


----------



## supplehope

Hmm guys I have a stupid question.

As a total noob about earbuds, am I suppose to just put them outside or insert them inside the ears? Have read somewhere that earbuds sounds somewhat better when insert them inside, but my ears are just too unique to put most earbuds in.

Thank you.


----------



## yacobx

music4mhell said:


> yacobx said:
> 
> 
> > noxa said:
> ...


 

 HAHAHAHAHA! I know how you feel, my GF has a bunch of my older IEM's and she can't tell the difference. I think we have similar tastes in sound SIG. Im excited for the cyngus. Im a huge fan of the Zen 2.0, I've had trouble enjoying the Asura 2.0, It seriously is the most pickly when it comes to music it wants to play. Anything acoustic, it loves but I'm all over the play and i need a bud that can play everything so i done have to switch buds mid listening session.
  
 Cheers,
  
 Jacob
  
 P.s. Does anyone know what ohm the Cygnus is?


----------



## music4mhell

supplehope said:


> Hmm guys I have a stupid question.
> 
> As a total noob about earbuds, am I suppose to just put them outside or insert them inside the ears? Have read somewhere that earbuds sounds somewhat better when insert them inside, but my ears are just too unique to put most earbuds in.
> 
> Thank you.


 
 Earbuds don't go inside ears, that is called are IEM (in-ears), Earbuds just stay outside of your ear canal, so it don't block the airflow.
 Another thing, Earbuds are such big, you can't insert in your ears


----------



## music4mhell

Good thing about CHord Mojo is it has 2 headphone out,
  
 I can easily connect 2 Earbuds and check side by side putting L & R side from different earbuds,
 Right now i am doing with Zen 2 and Cygnus.


----------



## Zani004

music4mhell said:


> For now, Cygnus surpassed my Zen 2 and HD650.


 
 After waivering for ages, you pushed me over the edge. Cygnus ordered.


----------



## googlebutt

I've been scouring the internet for new work headphones. At my work, I sometimes can only wear one headphone in at a time and I find that very awkward with IEM's and I just don't find them comfortable in general. Does your listening environment need to be quiet/silent for high quality ear buds (cygnus for example) to sound good? My workplace isn't incredibly loud, but I haven't owned an expensive pair of earbuds and I don't want to be disappointed! 
  
 For reference I've been wearing my massive Beyrdynamic DT770's at work, obviously not ideal because they're so large.


----------



## music4mhell

googlebutt said:


> I've been scouring the internet for new work headphones. At my work, I sometimes can only wear one headphone in at a time and I find that very awkward with IEM's and I just don't find them comfortable in general. Does your listening environment need to be quiet/silent for high quality ear buds (cygnus for example) to sound good? My workplace isn't incredibly loud, but I haven't owned an expensive pair of earbuds and I don't want to be disappointed!
> 
> For reference I've been wearing my massive Beyrdynamic DT770's at work, obviously not ideal because they're so large.


 
 I was at your place some months back.
 I bought Senn HD650 just to hear at my work place 
  
 But now i use only my Earbuds Zen 2 & Cygnus.


----------



## googlebutt

music4mhell said:


> I was at your place some months back.
> I bought Senn HD650 just to hear at my work place
> 
> But now i use only my Earbuds Zen 2 & Cygnus.


 

  Do you find your experience with earbuds to be effected greatly when listening in environments that aren't totally silent? I work in a production type facility, it's not incredibly loud, but there is a decent amount of noise in my area.


----------



## supplehope

googlebutt said:


> I've been scouring the internet for new work headphones. At my work, I sometimes can only wear one headphone in at a time and I find that very awkward with IEM's and I just don't find them comfortable in general. Does your listening environment need to be quiet/silent for high quality ear buds (cygnus for example) to sound good? My workplace isn't incredibly loud, but I haven't owned an expensive pair of earbuds and I don't want to be disappointed!
> 
> For reference I've been wearing my massive Beyrdynamic DT770's at work, obviously not ideal because they're so large.




For me, it is most ideal to listen to your music in a *completely* quiet environment. 

When I always go outside, I always feel distanced from the music that I listen to with my Sony and the IM02 (not enough isolation), especially where it is crowded (train).

Maybe you can consider something that isolates well? Maybe some other members here can give you some advice.


----------



## ozkan

googlebutt said:


> I've been scouring the internet for new work headphones. At my work, I sometimes can only wear one headphone in at a time and I find that very awkward with IEM's and I just don't find them comfortable in general. Does your listening environment need to be quiet/silent for high quality ear buds (cygnus for example) to sound good? My workplace isn't incredibly loud, but I haven't owned an expensive pair of earbuds and I don't want to be disappointed!
> 
> For reference I've been wearing my massive Beyrdynamic DT770's at work, obviously not ideal because they're so large.




I can wear my Monk even at public transport. No problem.


----------



## googlebutt

supplehope said:


> For me, it is most ideal to listen to your music in a *completely* quiet environment.
> 
> When I always go outside, I always feel distanced from the music that I listen to with my Sony and the IM02 (not enough isolation), especially where it is crowded (train).
> 
> Maybe you can consider something that isolates well? Maybe some other members here cab give you some advice.


 
  
 I hadn't considered that earbuds can offer any considerable amount of isolation, or that they vary from pair to pair! I just can't stand things in my ear canals, I don't want to wear heavy headphones because I'm constantly walking and working with my hands and I want high quality sound to get me through the day. My budget is around $100.
  
  
 You guys are fast to reply, it's great!


----------



## music4mhell

googlebutt said:


> supplehope said:
> 
> 
> > For me, it is most ideal to listen to your music in a *completely* quiet environment.
> ...


 
 Just order 1 pair of Monk @ $5 and then decide whether you should go for high end earbuds or not !


----------



## googlebutt

music4mhell said:


> Just order 1 pair of Monk @ $5 and then decide whether you should go for high eand earbudsor not !


 
  
 ..woah! Okay, done. How many steps above in sound quality are earbuds like the Cygnus? Are you mostly paying for build quality?


----------



## googlebutt

I just wen to VE's AE page and it looks like the Monk is no longer available


----------



## jonsim86

Hi. Have anyone tried TDK EB90?

Any thoughts?


----------



## Danneq

googlebutt said:


> ..woah! Okay, done. How many steps above in sound quality are earbuds like the Cygnus? Are you mostly paying for build quality?


 


 Monk is a sort of freak earbud. It could easily be sold for $30 or $40, but somehow VE sells it for just $5. I think it beats Yuin PK3 (costs from around $30 and up), which has been sold for around 10 years and now is a classic earbud, and it is close to or even beats Yuin PK2 (which is sold for between $50-70).

 Earbuds such as Cygnus are better technically, but they cost many times as much. You will never get the same price/performance as Monks. But you can get better sounding earbuds.

 My current favorites are Music Maker MrZ Tomahawk, that are sold for around $50 on Aliexpress. My all time favorites are Blox TM7, that I bought for around $150 when it was sold, Sennheiser MX980, that cost between $150-200 when it was sold, and a pair of over 30 year old Sony MDR-E252, that I bought for around $250 a few years ago (they have been discontinued since 1985/1986 and were NIB when I won the Ebay auction).

 I'll buy and try most earbuds mentioned here during the coming months. Some might sell out fast if they are limited edition. But as a Blox fan, I know that you have to be fast to buy...


----------



## googlebutt

danneq said:


> Monk is a sort of freak earbud. It could easily be sold for $30 or $40, but somehow VE sells it for just $5. I think it beats Yuin PK3 (costs from around $30 and up), which has been sold for around 10 years and now is a classic earbud, and it is close to or even beats Yuin PK2 (which is sold for between $50-70).
> 
> Earbuds such as Cygnus are better technically, but they cost many times as much. You will never get the same price/performance as Monks. But you can get better sounding earbuds.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Those Tomahawks look really nice! Has anyone directly compared them to the Cygnus?


----------



## music4mhell

googlebutt said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Just order 1 pair of Monk @ $5 and then decide whether you should go for high eand earbudsor not !
> ...


 
 I give Zero (0) importance to build quality.
 For me only and only sound quality matters. Well how many steps, hmm it's hard to answer in one line, i will come with detail comparison


----------



## Danneq

googlebutt said:


> Those Tomahawks look really nice! Has anyone directly compared them to the Cygnus?


 


 Not that I know. I will buy the Cygnus later.

 I think that Tomahawk sound like a more refined version of Monk with better detail, bass etc. The only thing that Monk does better than Tomahawk is the size of the soundstage. I have described that going from Monk to Tomahawk is like removing a thick blanket from a speaker.


----------



## screwedpeep

can anyone share the link to purchase VE Monk? i bookmark a link from aliexpress but it seems the seller has no more stocks.


----------



## music4mhell

screwedpeep said:


> can anyone share the link to purchase VE Monk? i bookmark a link from aliexpress but it seems the seller has no more stocks.


 
 Wait for some days, it will be back in stock soon


----------



## Danneq

They might be sold out temporary and become available again when stock is refilled...


----------



## screwedpeep

music4mhell said:


> Wait for some days, it will be back in stock soon


 
 ah i see. thanks for the head up.


----------



## googlebutt

Just ordered the cygnus, I'm pretty desperate and with hk transit times and all..


----------



## jant71

Anyone own these...http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-New-Rose-Mojito-Flat-Head-Earphone-Double-Dynamic-HIFI-Monitor-Headphone-DIY-Headset-With-TF/1825606_32616371529.html[size=20.0px]
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








[/size]


----------



## Danneq

bloodypenguin said:


> I also have a top secret earbud on the way.  Something completely different, that has never been mentioned on here...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 I think I figured out which one it is!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I won't say anything. Except Celsus Gramo One. No, it's not Gramo One, but there's something that the top secret earbud has in common with the Gramo One...


----------



## Danneq

Spoiler: Quote



Quote:


jant71 said:


> Anyone own these...http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-New-Rose-Mojito-Flat-Head-Earphone-Double-Dynamic-HIFI-Monitor-Headphone-DIY-Headset-With-TF/1825606_32616371529.html





  


 I think someone might have mentioned them, perhaps golov17?, a while back.

 Interesting with earbuds with detachable cable.

 I do remember golov17 linking these, also with detachable cable:


Spoiler: Earbuds


----------



## Saoshyant

Hmmm, I do like the look of that earbud.  I wonder how it sounds.


----------



## Danneq

Third post in a short while...

 I don't remember, but has anyone posted this one?

  


Spoiler: Picture of DIY earbuds



  


 
 I cannot make anything out from the confusing description. 

 Quote:


> but overall A8 still win a chip , transparent, charm are quite good.


 


 Well well, you can choose the color of cable and that's nice.


 WHAT IS THIS?!?!
  


Spoiler: Click me



http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-Design-Music-Maker-TK13-DIY-Custom-Hybrid-Headset-Dynamically-10mm-Unit-Bass-Headphone-HIFI-Fever/1980524_32620840406.html


----------



## jant71

Yes they took the Tomahawk driver and made an in-ear version.


----------



## Saoshyant

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention about the Tomahawk Z.  I was surprised when it popped up in the Asian audio thread.


----------



## golov17

yacobx said:


> HAHAHAHAHA! I know how you feel, my GF has a bunch of my older IEM's and she can't tell the difference. I think we have similar tastes in sound SIG. Im excited for the cyngus. Im a huge fan of the Zen 2.0, I've had trouble enjoying the Asura 2.0, It seriously is the most pickly when it comes to music it wants to play. Anything acoustic, it loves but I'm all over the play and i need a bud that can play everything so i done have to switch buds mid listening session.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> ...


16 Ohm, 102db, 20-22000 Hz


----------



## BloodyPenguin

danneq said:


> I think I figured out which one it is!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
 \/ It is the one @jant71 just posted below.\/  Guess it is not so secret.  Ha!
  
 Quote:


jant71 said:


> Anyone own these...http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-New-Rose-Mojito-Flat-Head-Earphone-Double-Dynamic-HIFI-Monitor-Headphone-DIY-Headset-With-TF/1825606_32616371529.html[size=20.0px]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, I should have this one in hopefully less than a week.  I am VERY curious to check it out.

 Build quality looks "plasticy" from the photos.  I wonder what they will be like in person.  I am also wondering with that design, how they will fit in the ears.


 I will post up my quick thoughts right after I get them.
  
 --


----------



## Tarnum

Double dynamic driver earbud ? like this design ? http://www.amazon.com/Fanny-Wang-FW-BUDS-BLK-Definition-Microphone/dp/B008LTBHY0


----------



## Danneq

bloodypenguin said:


> Yes, I should have this one in hopefully less than a week.  I am VERY curious to check it out.
> 
> Build quality looks "plasticy" from the photos.  I wonder what they will be like in person.  I am also wondering with that design, how they will fit in the ears.
> 
> ...


 


 I figured it out after seeing jant71's post, but didn't want to let the cat out of the bag. So I changed the subject.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 


  


tarnum said:


> Double dynamic driver earbud ? like this design ? http://www.amazon.com/Fanny-Wang-FW-BUDS-BLK-Definition-Microphone/dp/B008LTBHY0


 

 Strange design. It's not really an earbud but not really an IEM. It reminds me a bit of Final Audio Piano Forte II.

 But I don't want to put anything called "Fanny" or "Wang" in my ears...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

danneq said:


> I figured it out after seeing jant71's post, but didn't want to let the cat out of the bag. So I changed the subject.


 
  
 I actually knew you would figure it out.
  

 I was also wondering when someone was going to post them up on this thread.
  
 It is a strange breed, that Rose Mojito.  So looking forward to seeing what it is all about.
  
 ..


----------



## fleasbaby

bloodypenguin said:


> I actually knew you would figure it out.
> 
> 
> I was also wondering when someone was going to post them up on this thread.
> ...


 

 Looks REALLY interesting...no pics of the cables provided though (says 2 cables). Looking forward to your thoughts. Its up there in price...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

fleasbaby said:


> Looks REALLY interesting...no pics of the cables provided though (says 2 cables). Looking forward to your thoughts. Its up there in price...


 
  
 Yes.  There are a lot of strange things with these earbuds; High Price, no pictures of the cables, questionable build and the Double dynamic drivers(?)   

 I will do my best to explain all of this with words and photos when they arrive.


----------



## Danneq

And at the regular price it's more expensive than Celsus Gramo One. I do not think that Gramo One is $100 better than $150 earbuds. But the sound is quite neutral. A bit too neutral even for me who likes such a sound...

 Apparently the prototype of Gramo One had more focus on mids and was therefore slightly less neutral. But those who tested it loved the mids and thought that the mids were on the same level as mid fi closed headphones (we're probably talking $400-600 headphones). Recently I sent Celsus Sound a mail asking if they were considering releasing a new earbud, perhaps a "Celsus Gramo Two" with the sound of the prototype with more focus on mids. I received a reply that right now they are focusing on producing and releasing special silicone tips to increase the fit of the Gramo One and that there are no special plans of any new earbuds, even if they definitely can consider that in the future. Also Jason (Lim, I presume?) wrote that he didn't think that the difference between the prototype and final version was that big...

 Well well... I do not want to be tempted to buy the Rose Mojito since it's pretty expensive. I could get a pair of Ting, Shozy Cygnus and a Dark Horse earbud (from Ali Express) for the same price as one Rose Mojito.

 But the sound justifies the price, the temptation might be too big...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

audionewbi3 said:


> ultimate buds
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.69.s4wq5Y&id=43414853614&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail


 
 Yup I posted the rose 4 weeks ago post #2159 of 2771
  
 Never thought that I would seriously see someone from this thread actually purchasing them. 

 Looking forward to their review! Wohoo！ This thread is on fire


----------



## AudioNewbi3

> WHAT IS THIS?!?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 According to Music Maker's official Taobao page, it is an IEM Version of the Tomahawks.


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> Yup I posted the rose 4 weeks ago post #2159 of 2771
> 
> Never thought that I would seriously see someone from this thread actually purchasing them.
> 
> Looking forward to their review! Wohoo！ This thread is on fire


 


 Ah! So it was you? Sorry, I thought it was golov17. I knew that I had seen them here.

 All hail earbuds!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> Ah! So it was you? Sorry, I thought it was golov17. I knew that I had seen them here.
> 
> All hail earbuds!


 
 Nah it's cool mate.
  
 It got penguin to notice and eventually buy it (I presume), so it's all good!
  
 Now onwards to penguin's review!!!!!!!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> Yup I posted the rose 4 weeks ago post #2159 of 2771
> 
> Never thought that I would seriously see someone from this thread actually purchasing them.
> 
> Looking forward to their review! Wohoo！ This thread is on fire


 
  
 I thought I remembered seeing them.  But when I did a search for "Rose Mojito", nothing came up.
  
 I guess we should start labeling our posts, so we can reference them.  Hard to go through 185 pages.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


audionewbi3 said:


> According to Music Maker's official Taobao page, it is an IEM Version of the Tomahawks.


 
  
 Nice Find!  I MUST HAVE THOSE!!!
  
 --


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> I thought I remembered seeing them.  But when I did a search for "Rose Mojito", nothing came up.
> 
> I guess we should start labeling our posts, so we can reference them.  Hard to go through 185 pages.


 
  I am sorry mate hahaha!

 I will properly label my interesting finds from Taobao in the future hahaha!


----------



## yacobx

golov17 said:


> yacobx said:
> 
> 
> > HAHAHAHAHA! I know how you feel, my GF has a bunch of my older IEM's and she can't tell the difference. I think we have similar tastes in sound SIG. Im excited for the cyngus. Im a huge fan of the Zen 2.0, I've had trouble enjoying the Asura 2.0, It seriously is the most pickly when it comes to music it wants to play. Anything acoustic, it loves but I'm all over the play and i need a bud that can play everything so i done have to switch buds mid listening session.
> ...


 

 Thank you, @Golov17


----------



## music4mhell

This thread is on a roll !


----------



## supplehope

As someone who is not capable of affording but still have mild interest in audio gears (especially earbuds) now, this thread is really poisoning.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

BTW, I also forgot to mention...  I have a pair of the new *FiiO EM3* on the way as well.  Totally forgot about that!   Ha...
  
 I'm curious to test it next to the stock earbuds that come with the M3.  They look similar, but I have a feeling they are going to sound quite different.  FiiO has personally told me they are not the same.
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> BTW, I also forgot to mention...  I have a pair of the new *FiiO EM3* on the way as well.  Totally forgot about that!   Ha...
> 
> I'm curious to test it next to the stock earbuds that come with the M3.  They look similar, but I have a feeling they are going to sound quite different.  FiiO has personally told me they are not the same.
> 
> ..


  Where?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> Where?


 


 FiiO reached out to me a few days ago.  I think with my recent earbud reviews, they are interested in getting my take on the EM3.  
  
 --


----------



## Saoshyant

@BloodyPenguin I imagine I can say that we're all whole heartedly awaiting your impressions!


----------



## music4mhell

YMHFPJ DIY HiFi All-metal aluminum 300 ohm high impedance headphones ear buds Headset Wire Earphone for huawei iphone xiaomi
http://s.aliexpress.com/Mv2Yrumq
(from AliExpress Android)

Any idea guys ?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

audionewbi3 said:


> Anyone wants to try this?
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.70.ludDwb&id=524222823803&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail
> 
> ...


 
  Posted about them some time back....


----------



## AudioNewbi3

music4mhell said:


> YMHFPJ DIY HiFi All-metal aluminum 300 ohm high impedance headphones ear buds Headset Wire Earphone for huawei iphone xiaomi
> http://s.aliexpress.com/Mv2Yrumq
> (from AliExpress Android)
> 
> Any idea guys ?


 
  
  


audionewbi3 said:


> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.22.ludDwb&id=526206994969&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail


----------



## ClieOS

I have the FiiO EM3 prototype for awhile now. For $10, it is doubt the price of VE Monk but IMO, still retains excellent value and compatible SQ. Compared to Monk, EM3 has a smaller soundstage but a warmer and more textured mid range with a more 'rounded' and fuller presentation. I won't call it a mid-centric earbud per se, but it is certainly neutral tilting toward mid. I reckon it will makes for a good compliment for Monk or just a good choice for any vocal music - pop, rock, etc. Mind you this is just impression on the prototype, I will also have the retail version in a week or two. But if the prototype is of any indication of the retail version, this will prove to be another budget king.


----------



## kiler

How is the fit comparing to the Monks? It is the only slight gripe I currently have with them


----------



## ClieOS

kiler said:


> How is the fit comparing to the Monks? It is the only slight gripe I currently have with them


 
  
 It sits deeper in the ear because of its design so I'll say it is a bit more comfortable / easier fitting than the Monk.


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> YMHFPJ DIY HiFi All-metal aluminum 300 ohm high impedance headphones ear buds Headset Wire Earphone for huawei iphone xiaomi
> http://s.aliexpress.com/Mv2Yrumq
> (from AliExpress Android)
> 
> Any idea guys ?


 
 They seem to have the same housing as these:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Diy-metal-fever-earphones-bass-hifi-0931-cotton/1666791263.html

 and these:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-earphone-Single-crystal-copper-wire-DIY15-4mm-earbuds/32571382393.html


----------



## kiler

clieos said:


> It sits deeper in the ear because of its design so I'll say it is a bit more comfortable / easier fitting than the Monk.


 
 Quite interesting then, it might be worth a try once they are out of prototype phase. Thanks for the input!


----------



## golov17

Del


----------



## music4mhell

thank you @golov ....now i won't buy..


----------



## vapman

hmmm... light bass? that's too bad.
 need more earbuds with solid bass!
  
 i will probably buy the DK-Jin today.


----------



## ClieOS

kiler said:


> Quite interesting then, it might be worth a try once they are out of prototype phase. Thanks for the input!


 
  
 It is already officially released a few days ago.


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> hmmm... light bass? that's too bad.
> need more earbuds with solid bass!
> 
> i will probably buy the DK-Jin today.


same hare... i can compromise with mids or highs...but no nev with lows ...so rejected


----------



## AudioNewbi3

music4mhell said:


> same hare... i can compromise with mids or highs...but no nev with lows ...so rejected


 
  
  


vapman said:


> hmmm... light bass? that's too bad.
> need more earbuds with solid bass!
> 
> i will probably buy the DK-Jin today.


 
  
 I am the exact opposite. I can compromise a lack of bass, but not mids or highs hahahaha.


----------



## music4mhell

audionewbi3 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > same hare... i can compromise with mids or highs...but no nev with lows ...so rejected
> ...


then u will love the assura


----------



## Saoshyant

The DK-jin looks interesting, can't seem to find much in the way of reviews, but I'm most likely not looking in the right spot


----------



## golov17

http://www.head-fi.org/t/800834/introduction-to-fiio-em3-open-earbuds


----------



## Danneq

saoshyant said:


> The DK-jin looks interesting, can't seem to find much in the way of reviews, but I'm most likely not looking in the right spot




Hard hitting and deep bass. Strong treble that still isn't harsh. Somewhat narrow soundstage that still is deep. If you have heard Sennheiser HD25 you can imagine the size of the soundstage on the DK-Jin. Not a bad earbud, but not what I seek so I recently traded my pair away...


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> Hard hitting and deep bass. Strong treble that still isn't harsh. Somewhat narrow soundstage that still is deep. If you have heard Sennheiser HD25 you can imagine the size of the soundstage on the DK-Jin. Not a bad earbud, but not what I seek so I recently traded my pair away...


 

 Are they similar tone-wise to the HD25-1 II as well? I loved those headphones when I had em...
  
 Where can you guys get rubber rings that will fit on the monk? I'm interested to try them with those instead of foams...


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> Are they similar tone-wise to the HD25-1 II as well? I loved those headphones when I had em...
> 
> Where can you guys get rubber rings that will fit on the monk? I'm interested to try them with those instead of foams...




Just the size of the soundstage. It it's not very big and overall DK-Jin has got an upfront and in your face sound. Like the HD25 do. However treble is a bit more energetic on the DK-Jin than on the HD25.


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> Just the size of the soundstage. It it's not very big and overall DK-Jin has got an upfront and in your face sound. Like the HD25 do. However treble is a bit more energetic on the DK-Jin than on the HD25.


 

 I think i'll end up grabbing a set for curiosity's sake as well, maybe I'll order a few buds i've never heard of or seen before. and some extra E100's... i'm actually preferring those to the Monk from time to time with the Mojo.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Anyone know about these [T&Y] Earbuds?
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/diy-earphone-5N-silver-plated-wire/32523696282.html
  

  
 --


----------



## music4mhell

bloodypenguin said:


> Anyone know about these [T&Y] Earbuds?
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/diy-earphone-5N-silver-plated-wire/32523696282.html
> 
> ...


looks intersting ...


----------



## Zani004

music4mhell said:


> Please wait 2/3 days,i will come with quantitative analysis


 

 You haven't forgotten about your Cygnus impressions I hope. Don't worry about work, and time with family and friends, remember what's really important, we're counting on you.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> Anyone know about these [T&Y] Earbuds?
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/diy-earphone-5N-silver-plated-wire/32523696282.html
> 
> ...


 
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.236.jtvwut&id=522577881433&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail
  
 According to the item's Taobao page, it seems that they use Ultimate Ears cable and Taiwan imported 3.5mm Jack


----------



## rggz

I sell my HD 25-1 yesterday and bought the MrZ Tomahawk and Cygnus I'm very curious about how those beasts sound, I hope get they soon!

 Now my actual favorites still my good pair of Mrice E100 and MX985 with electric guitars and some prog/post-rock. I like this combo because they complement each other with different proposals.
  
 Ehh, I post some question about Cygnus cable days ago, and it confirm:
  
  
  
 The cable will be greening at some time, I prefer black cables to avoid this problem with aesthetics, but okey we always can open and solder another cable.


----------



## yacobx

rggz said:


> I sell my HD 25-1 yesterday and bought the MrZ Tomahawk and Cygnus I'm very curious about how those beasts sound, I hope get they soon!
> 
> Now my actual favorites still my good pair of Mrice E100 and MX985 with electric guitars and some prog/post-rock. I like this combo because they complement each other with different proposals.
> 
> ...


 
 Patina


----------



## vapman

I went and sprung for some of the MMZ Tomahawk's! I almost ordered the DK-JIN but i didn't cause of the V signature and I like my phones flatter.
  
 I also got one set of the Asura 2.0, which I would have had by now if I ordered before Chinese New Year 
  
 I may put in an order for those T&Y earbuds, they look cool and would match my Aurisonics ASG-B.


----------



## chompy

Could anybody please compare Tomahawks's to DK-RU's bass and treble amounts and extension?
  
 Thanks


----------



## yacobx

vapman said:


> I went and sprung for some of the MMZ Tomahawk's! I almost ordered the DK-JIN but i didn't cause of the V signature and I like my phones flatter.
> 
> I also got one set of the Asura 2.0, which I would have had by now if I ordered before Chinese New Year
> 
> I may put in an order for those T&Y earbuds, they look cool and would match my Aurisonics ASG-B.




The Asuras are amazing with classical and acoustic stuff.


----------



## vapman

The reason I keep so many Monk around is they scale so well with any source. I'm enjoying them more than ever with the Mojo though.
  
 I keep a few E100 around because they're good at specific jobs but they're not all arounders.
  
 I got my Tomahawk with the
  
 I may place an order for the DK JIN later. We'll see. Curiosity might get the best of me and it might be another thing I get just to hear it and toss on the classifieds for a slight less, we'll see


----------



## Danneq

chompy said:


> Could anybody please compare Tomahawks's to DK-RU's bass and treble amounts and extension?
> 
> Thanks




Do you mean the wood earbuds DK-Jin/DK-PU?

DK-Jin/DK-PU has got punchier bass than Tomahawk. Not necessarily better, but definitely more. At first it's slightly boomy but after a few hours it becomes more refined. Tomahawk's bass isn't as in your face. It's just where it's supposed to be and definitely not weak.
Neither DK-Jin/DK-PU nor Tomahawk have harsh treble, although both can be slightly sharp at times. That can improve with time. When I put full foams on the Tomahawks the slight tendency towards sharpness went away. I'm a bit sensitive to sibilance and might be more sensitive than the average person when it comes to treble.


----------



## phiely

Hoping for ranking/comparisons of Ting - Tomahawk - Cygnus

Based on this tread's info I've just ordered the Venture V2, and thinking of getting one of the above.

Plus, any other below $150 contenders?


----------



## yacobx

phiely said:


> Hoping for ranking/comparisons of Ting - Tomahawk - Cygnus
> 
> Based on this tread's info I've just ordered the Venture V2, and thinking of getting one of the above.
> 
> Plus, any other below $150 contenders?


 
 I settled on the Cyngus. Im being very impatient about  the shipping time....  HKpost needs to be faster.


----------



## chompy

danneq said:


> Do you mean the wood earbuds DK-Jin/DK-PU?
> 
> DK-Jin/DK-PU has got punchier bass than Tomahawk. Not necessarily better, but definitely more. At first it's slightly boomy but after a few hours it becomes more refined. Tomahawk's bass isn't as in your face. It's just where it's supposed to be and definitely not weak.
> Neither DK-Jin/DK-PU nor Tomahawk have harsh treble, although both can be slightly sharp at times. That can improve with time. When I put full foams on the Tomahawks the slight tendency towards sharpness went away. I'm a bit sensitive to sibilance and might be more sensitive than the average person when it comes to treble.


 
  
 Thanks, yes I meant DK-Jin/DK-PU and as a V shaped fun (love deep punchy bass and sharp highs) I'm after the option of improving my Edifier H185 which right now is my favourite earbud (I also have ie the Monks but I find them too mid centric with rolled off highs and few bass for my taste) and in the area around $50 it seems for what you say that DK-Jin/DK-PU should be my best bet, because if I jump to the $100 zone, will I find any V shaped highend earbud? From what I've read in this price area everyone is aiming to linearity, some being more warm and some more bright, but nobody seems to have a V shaped fun sounding earbud in their catalog.


----------



## Danneq

chompy said:


> Thanks, yes I meant DK-Jin/DK-PU and as a V shaped fun (love deep punchy bass and sharp highs) I'm after the option of improving my Edifier H185 which right now is my favourite earbud (I also have ie the Monks but I find them too mid centric with rolled off highs and few bass for my taste) and in the area around $50 it seems for what you say that DK-Jin/DK-PU should be my best bet, because if I jump to the $100 zone, will I find any V shaped highend earbud? From what I've read in this price area everyone is aiming to linearity, some being more warm and some more bright, but nobody seems to have a V shaped fun sounding earbud in their catalog.




I agree that the higher the price, the more earbud makers aim for a more linear sound. If you don't mind a more intimate sound with slightly narrow soundstage, as on Sennheiser HD25, you will probably like DK-Jin. Also, they are beautiful. But the blue cable version looks cheap. It's worth getting the copper colored cable even if it's $8-9 more. Apparenly that cable is better quality than the blue one...


----------



## Saoshyant

danneq said:


> I agree that the higher the price, the more earbud makers aim for a more linear sound. If you don't mind a more intimate sound with slightly narrow soundstage, as on Sennheiser HD25, you will probably like DK-Jin. Also, they are beautiful. But the blue cable version looks cheap. It's worth getting the copper colored cable even if it's $8-9 more. Apparenly that cable is better quality than the blue one...




Ok, was debating which color cable I wanted, and was hoping the red was higher quality due to the $10 or so proce difference. I think I'll order it soon. Thanks sir!


----------



## chompy

danneq said:


> I agree that the higher the price, the more earbud makers aim for a more linear sound. If you don't mind a more intimate sound with slightly narrow soundstage, as on Sennheiser HD25, you will probably like DK-Jin. Also, they are beautiful. But the blue cable version looks cheap. It's worth getting the copper colored cable even if it's $8-9 more. Apparenly that cable is better quality than the blue one...


 
  
 Thanks, then I'll wait for more impressions with pricier buds that some of you will get soon before my final purchase is made, but at this price point if I'm after V shaped sound my options are now DK-Jin/DK-PU (with cooper cable) > Tomahawk >> Asura v2... ¿any other possible contender?
  
 Fit is also very important for me (Monks felt quite uncomfortable), do you remember if they were more bigger than Yuin PK3 (perfect in size for my ears)?


----------



## Danneq

chompy said:


> Thanks, then I'll wait for more impressions with pricier buds that some of you will get soon before my final purchase is made, but at this price point if I'm after V shaped sound my options are now DK-Jin/DK-PU (with cooper cable) > Tomahawk >> Asura v2... ¿any other possible contender?
> 
> Fit is also very important for me (Monks felt quite uncomfortable), do you remember if they were more bigger than Yuin PK3 (perfect in size for my ears)?




Tomahawk is fairly balanced between bass, mids and treble...

The drivers on DK-Jin seem to be pretty big. Perhaps the same as Monks or a bit bigger. But for me fit was better than Monks. The design of the housing is better than the one that Ve and Blox uses. So fit might be better for you as well...


----------



## listen4joy

i think its time to update this thread and the rankings. there are a lot of new players in 2016 that deserves a spot i am sure Monks in top 3 and in unbeaten price.


----------



## goldenSHK

listen4joy said:


> i think its time to update this thread and the rankings. there are a lot of new players in 2016 that deserves a spot i am sure Monks in top 3 and in unbeaten price.


 
 I'm sorry but I don't think top 3...I don't have the Zen but I have the MX985, have heard the Blox TM7 before too. I can surely say the Monks are absolutely insane and unbelievable for the price at $5. Simply ridiculous deal, however, it's clearly not better than the MX985. Hearing them side by side, there's no doubt about that. I also doubt that they are better than the Zen just by common sense (Zen is flagship of the same brand as the Monks) so it would already be out of the top 3 of ClieOS's rankings...


----------



## Danneq

goldenshk said:


> I'm sorry but I don't think top 3...I don't have the Zen but I have the MX985, have heard the Blox TM7 before too. I can surely say the Monks are absolutely insane and unbelievable for the price at $5. Simply ridiculous deal, however, it's clearly not better than the MX985. Hearing them side by side, there's no doubt about that. I also doubt that they are better than the Zen just by common sense (Zen is flagship of the same brand as the Monks) so it would already be out of the top 3 of ClieOS's rankings...




Have you heard MX980? If you have, how close to MX985 is it? I though is was just a revised version with new design on the plug and volume control, but some have noticed a tiny difference in sound...

TM7 is my unchallenged favorite with vintage sony MDR-E252 as no 2 and MX/OMX 980 (I've got both) as no 3. Right now, Tomahawk might be in the top 5 (haven't bothered to go further than the top 3). Monk is probably in the top 10, mainly because they scale so well with better equipment.

Tomahawk has got an overall similar sound to Monk, but with better clarity and detail. But there are a lot of new high end earbuds I haven't heard yet. Shozy Cygnus, Ostry KC08, Dunu Alpha 1 etc...


----------



## ozkan

Can someone compare Edifier H180 to the Monk please? Which one has better treble presentation?Thank you.


----------



## ClieOS

listen4joy said:


> i think its time to update this thread and the rankings. there are a lot of new players in 2016 that deserves a spot i am sure Monks in top 3 and in unbeaten price.


 
  
 Even if the thread is updated, I can assure you Monk will not make top 3 in my ranking. But this is not to say I disagree with you that Monk has incredible value - because it does.
  
 ...and sorry that the ranking isn't updated as frequent as it should. I am working very long hours each day (it is a family business, so no escaping from that) and it is surprising that I still have the time and energy to visit HF. I barely spend enough time listening to music, so doing review or ranking isn't my top priority. But rest assure I'll at least try to do a 'yearly' update


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Even if the thread is updated, I can assure you Monk will not make top 3 in my ranking. But this is not to say I disagree with you that Monk has incredible value - because it does.
> 
> ...and sorry that the ranking isn't updated as frequent as it should. I am working very long hours each day (it is a family business, so no escaping from that) and it is surprising that I still have the time and energy to visit HF. I barely spend enough time listening to music, so doing review or ranking isn't my top priority. But rest assure I'll at least try to do a 'yearly' update


 
  Nah it's okay mate, the fact that you started this thread was a godsend to individuals who were into earbuds. I would like to personally thank you reeling me into the world of buds.
  
 Now my buds outnumber my iems.............After hearing some nice buds, I highly doubt I will go back to IEM's unless the pricier ones. Hahahaha


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Alright ladies and gents, pardon me for my ignorance, but is B&O A8 an earbud or IEM of some sort? Many seller on Taobao seem to use B&O A8 drivers for DIY ear buds.

 Some links:

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.99.EUuXEi&id=523146463759&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail
  
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.82.EUuXEi&id=42945802063&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail
  
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.93.EUuXEi&id=528176633540&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail
  
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.105.EUuXEi&id=40919870439&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail
  
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.20.EUuXEi&id=21172935711&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail
  
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5-c.w4002-207760909.57.4P88sM&id=15086638587
  
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.37.xOjkAv&id=524572963462&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail


----------



## rggz

danneq said:


> Have you heard MX980? If you have, how close to MX985 is it? I though is was just a revised version with new design on the plug and volume control, but some have noticed a tiny difference in sound...


 

 You can see the measurements by Golden Ears: MX980 and MX985 - seems very similar I'd imagine measure earbuds isn't easy because just move some mm or fit slightly different will change some dBs.


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> Alright ladies and gents, pardon me for my ignorance, but is B&O A8 an earbud or IEM of some sort? Many seller on Taobao seem to use B&O A8 drivers for DIY ear buds.


 
  
 B&O A8 is still in production actually, and possibly one of the longest running earbuds model around. A8 is its original model name, but right now B&O calls it 'Earphone 3i'. You might recall it as the headset Tom Cruise (and others) used in Minority Report. It has kind of a legendary status on China due to historical reason, but A8 is OEM'ed by Foster Japan (the mother company of Fostex) and shares its DNA with some of the greatest earbuds of its time. Those so called DIY A8 earbuds are most likely fake. Foster Japan is known for their quality control and having their dynamic driver leaking out to the market is pretty much unheard of. But that's not going to stop people from trying to make some quick bucks out of it.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> B&O A8 is still in production actually, and possibly one of the longest running earbuds model around. A8 is its original model name, but right now B&O calls it 'Earphone 3i'. You might recall it as the headset Tom Cruise (and others) used in Minority Report. It has kind of a legendary status on China due to historical reason, but A8 is OEM'ed by Foster Japan (the mother company of Fostex) and shares its DNA with some of the greatest earbuds of its time. Those so called DIY A8 earbuds are most likely fake. Foster Japan is known for their quality control and having their dynamic driver leaking out to the market is pretty much unheard of. But that's not going to stop people from trying to make some quick bucks out of it.


 
  
 WOW! Thanks for the info mate! I guess I won't bother purchasing any of them then. But how about these 2?

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.45.wRCYwG&id=527410664009&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail
  
 The seller of the above states that the driver unit they use are scavenged A8 drivers (possibly from old and discarded A8's?)

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.93.EUuXEi&id=528176633540&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail

 The seller of the above outright states that they are not original A8 drivers, but they sound similar according to the seller. Are they still worth the price?

 Oh last question,
  
 is Fostex = 非达？


----------



## tukangketik

danneq said:


> Have you heard MX980? If you have, how close to MX985 is it? I though is was just a revised version with new design on the plug and volume control, but some have noticed a tiny difference in sound...


 
 Sorry to answer. haha.
 as far as I remembered, both have same signature, while mx980 have more "wilder" attitude being its treble more harsh and bass a bit bigger. while mx985 have a more controlled signature and fuller, but the bass reach deeper than the 980.


----------



## golov17

tukangketik said:


> Sorry to answer. haha.
> as far as I remembered, both have same signature, while mx980 have more "wilder" attitude being its treble more harsh and bass a bit bigger. while mx985 have a more controlled signature and fuller, but the bass reach deeper than the 980.


http://www.head-fi.org/t/483650/sennheiser-mx-980-expression/255#post_9757064


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> WOW! Thanks for the info mate! I guess I won't bother purchasing any of them then. But how about these 2?
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.45.wRCYwG&id=527410664009&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail
> 
> ...


 
  
 Foster Japan is 丰达. Fostex is sometime referred to the same name as well, as Fostex doesn't have a Chinese name of its own.
  
 Can't really tell you which one is worth buying. A8 is so popular at one point, even the fake dynamic driver is made to look very similar to the real thing. You will have to buy one to find out for yourself.  As a general rule of thumb, I don't buy into those claim - as those really serious DIYer generally won't spend the time trying to use scrap parts nor trying to recreate some long-gone model. While A8 might be be famous among the Chinese, it is no longer competing on the top level. A capable DIYer will not bother trying to recreate something that is can't compete. If they did, they are most likely only doing (faking) it to make a quick bucks.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Foster Japan is 丰达. Fostex is sometime referred to the same name as well, as Fostex doesn't have a Chinese name of its own.
> 
> Can't really tell you which one is worth buying. A8 is so popular at one point, even the fake dynamic driver is made to look very similar to the real thing. You will have to buy one to find out for yourself.  As a general rule of thumb, I don't buy into those claim - as those really serious DIYer generally won't spend the time trying to use scrap parts nor trying to recreate some long-gone model. While A8 might be be famous among the Chinese, it is no longer competing on the top level. A capable DIYer will not bother trying to recreate something that is can't compete. If they did, they are most likely only doing (faking) it to make a quick bucks.


 
  
 Oh wow, guess I should not have underestimated the "copy and paste" power of Mainlanders hahaha. Guess I will save myself some cash and skip on these earbuds. 

 Hmm, maybe I should use the money to purchase myself a Music Valley Rocoon RC2......Have you heard of that amp before?


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> Hmm, maybe I should use the money to purchase myself a Music Valley Rocoon RC2......Have you heard of that amp before?


 
  
 Nope.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Nope.


 
 Thanks anyways mate! Next time if I ever want to purchase any doggy DIY earbuds, I will be sure to post them here first, so that I can avoid spending needless cash hahaha!


----------



## goldenSHK

danneq said:


> Have you heard MX980? If you have, how close to MX985 is it? I though is was just a revised version with new design on the plug and volume control, but some have noticed a tiny difference in sound...
> 
> TM7 is my unchallenged favorite with vintage sony MDR-E252 as no 2 and MX/OMX 980 (I've got both) as no 3. Right now, Tomahawk might be in the top 5 (haven't bothered to go further than the top 3). Monk is probably in the top 10, mainly because they scale so well with better equipment.
> 
> Tomahawk has got an overall similar sound to Monk, but with better clarity and detail. But there are a lot of new high end earbuds I haven't heard yet. Shozy Cygnus, Ostry KC08, Dunu Alpha 1 etc...


 
 Unfortunately I haven't heard the 980. I have heard the PK1 OK1 and although they are quite impressive amped they sound about exactly what I expect them to.
  
 You've got me really interested in the Tomahawk, must resist lol. I just picked up a VE Zen 2.0 to see if it's worth it when it arrives. Let's hope it is. Something tells me I won't be as impressed with them as the VE Monk since I am expecting a lot due to how much they go for (although I got mine second hand). The VE Monk absolutely blew me away because I really wasn't expecting anything for $5.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

@ClieOS, B&O A8's aside, what about the so-called DIY PK1's on Taobao, are they reputable?


----------



## music4mhell

audionewbi3 said:


> @ClieOS, B&O A8's aside, what about the so-called DIY PK1's on Taobao, are they reputable?


 
 How many questions u will ask the big guy in a day ? Give him a break


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> @ClieOS, B&O A8's aside, what about the so-called DIY PK1's on Taobao, are they reputable?


 
  
 It is also well known that Yuin makes their own transducer so the chance of it leaks out from the factory or somehow it can be sourced from some OEM is slim to none. That should tell you how trustworthy a DIY PK1 is.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> It is also well known that Yuin makes their own transducer so the chance of it leaks out from the factory or somehow it can be sourced from some OEM is slim to none. That should tell you how trustworthy a DIY PK1 is.


 
  
 Ah I see I see. Thank-you once gain for the valuable information! I guess, I will refrain from purchasing any DIY buds on the Tao which claim to have "XX Maker's" original driver and what not. Guess some things are just too good to be true hahaha.
  
 Thank-you!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

music4mhell said:


> How many questions u will ask the big guy in a day ? Give him a break


 
  
 I am burning with curiosity mate. Jokes aside, I do admit I've been asking quite a lot of questions lately, if that is bothering you, I am sorry mate. I am not expecting our great ClieOS to answer them so fast, but nontheless, I thank him for taking the time and effort admist his busy workday to answer them for me.


----------



## music4mhell

Guys Just got the Ostry KC08, It's Nice, I really need some mroe time to compare Cygnus and Ostry


----------



## music4mhell

music4mhell said:


> Guys Just got the Ostry KC08, It's Nice, I really need some mroe time to compare Cygnus and Ostry


 
 Ohk done .. Cygnus > Zen > Monk > Ostry KC08, Ostry has very thin vocals and small soundstage .. i think i wasted money on Ostry


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> Ostry has very thin vocals and small soundstage .. i think i wasted money on Ostry


 

 Hmmm.. Did you perhaps get the Chinese version and not the overseas one? What color is "Ostry" written with on the earbuds? Where did you order it from?


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Ostry has very thin vocals and small soundstage .. i think i wasted money on Ostry
> ...


 
 I ordered from Penonaudio and color is white color .. damn i am really disappointed  ..  but positive side is , you will enjoy more trance and EDM on this earphones, let see what happens after some burn-in hours.. ....
  
  
 Good decisions come from Experience, and EXP come from bad decisions.


----------



## golov17

Spend time at least one day with kc08, without any comparisons, and see what happens in the end..


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> Spend time at least one day with kc08, without any comparisons, and see what happens in the end..


yes this was just early impression, let see what happens after burn in time


----------



## chompy

music4mhell said:


> I ordered from Penonaudio and color is white color .. damn i am really disappointed  ..  but positive side is , you will enjoy more trance and EDM on this earphones, let see what happens after some burn-in hours.. ....
> 
> 
> Good decisions come from Experience, and EXP come from bad decisions.


 
  
 Interesting, as I almost only listen trance... Could you please tell us how are its bass and highs compared to your other earbuds? Thanks


----------



## yacobx

music4mhell said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Guys Just got the Ostry KC08, It's Nice, I really need some mroe time to compare Cygnus and Ostry
> ...


 
 Im so excited for the Cyngus. Besides the bass, is there anything else about the buds that make it better that the zen?


----------



## chompy

ozkan said:


> Can someone compare Edifier H180 to the Monk please? Which one has better treble presentation?Thank you.


 
  
 For me H180 treble is quite rolled-off, Monks have slightly better highs but still not good enough for me... At this price point Edifier H185 has the best treble for my tastes.


----------



## oopeteroo

here iam again xD
which earbud to get for less than 100usd for vocal music, ballad, kpop, jpop, cpop?
for the clip+ without amp ?
monk ? also will I need an amp for tomahawk ?


----------



## music4mhell

oopeteroo said:


> here iam again xD
> which earbud to get for less than 100usd for vocal music, ballad, kpop, jpop, cpop?
> for the clip+ without amp ?
> monk ? also will I need an amp for tomahawk ?


VE Asura ...


----------



## oopeteroo

doesn't ve asura need an amp ?


----------



## oopeteroo

doesn't ve asura need an amp ?


----------



## Raketen

oopeteroo said:


> doesn't ve asura need an amp ?


 

 I don't have them but the sensitivity rating is 120db, so at very least can probably get them to listenable volumes if not at their best (I checked Zen2 and Clip+ sounds decent).


----------



## yacobx

oopeteroo said:


> doesn't ve asura need an amp ?




I've used my asura with my iPhone and it sounded pretty good still. It's obviously better with an amp but it will work.


----------



## Danneq

rggz said:


> You can see the measurements by Golden Ears: MX980 and MX985 - seems very similar I'd imagine measure earbuds isn't easy because just move some mm or fit slightly different will change some dBs.


 

 About measurement with FQ graphs, I agree with you. DK-Jin is fairly close to MX985 on a FQ graph, but it doesn't sound very much like my MX980. DK-Jin isn't bad, but it has a different type of sound than MX980. And MX985 should be very close or identical to MX980...
  


tukangketik said:


> Sorry to answer. haha.
> as far as I remembered, both have same signature, while mx980 have more "wilder" attitude being its treble more harsh and bass a bit bigger. while mx985 have a more controlled signature and fuller, but the bass reach deeper than the 980.


 
  
  


golov17 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/483650/sennheiser-mx-980-expression/255#post_9757064


 


 It seems like opinions are different. MX980 had a winning sound, so there would be no need for change, but it's strange if Sennheiser released an upgraded version where only plug and volume control are changed and only have that version on the market for about 1 year...


----------



## Danneq

oopeteroo said:


> here iam again xD
> which earbud to get for less than 100usd for vocal music, ballad, kpop, jpop, cpop?
> for the clip+ without amp ?
> monk ? also will I need an amp for tomahawk ?


 


 If you can find Yuin PK2 for around $50 it's pretty good with vocals and softer music. But newer earbuds can be better in other areas...


----------



## klove4252

yacobx said:


> Im so excited for the Cyngus. Besides the bass, is there anything else about the buds that make it better that the zen?


 
 My Cyngus come in today. I feel like a kid on Christmas morning.


----------



## golov17

klove4252 said:


> My Cyngus come in today. I feel like a kid on Christmas morning.


in post-office?


----------



## yacobx

klove4252 said:


> yacobx said:
> 
> 
> > Im so excited for the Cyngus. Besides the bass, is there anything else about the buds that make it better that the zen?
> ...


 

!!!lucky!!!! Mine just left Hong Kong. Please share your thoughts today


----------



## klove4252

golov17 said:


> in post-office?


 
 They are at the post office in my town now. It says the delivery day is today, but they are not actually out for delivery yet. This might be a tease and I will have to wait for tomorrow.


----------



## golov17

klove4252 said:


> They are at the post office in my town now. It says the delivery day is today, but they are not actually out for delivery yet. This might be a tease and I will have to wait for tomorrow.


 In any case, it is already close to you, closer than for us..


----------



## klove4252

golov17 said:


> In any case, it is already close to you, closer than for us..


 
 I'll update if the post office decides to be nice and deliver me a christmas gift in March.


----------



## rggz

danneq said:


> It seems like opinions are different. MX980 had a winning sound, so there would be no need for change, but it's strange if Sennheiser released an upgraded version where only plug and volume control are changed and only have that version on the market for about 1 year...


 
  
 I'm not an expert but when I see this fragile cable on MX980/5 and I'd imagine normal people putting it on pocket and broken it after some time this could only lead to disaster for Sennheiser making they didn't profit with high-end earbuds or something like that.
  
Also I find this company on Thai and they mod a lot high-end earbuds: https://twitter.com/BRabbitHiFi it is always good to know if this cable broken one day.


----------



## pfloyd

Here's my modest contribution to the budget earbud community. The Philips Shs3200. They came with a pretty poor MP3 player called the Dot but I was pleasantly surprised with the buds. They are ear clip style with a functional flared bass port. Put your finger on the port and bass disappears. The port contributes to an airy wide soundstage. They compete with my pk3's and monks with a warmer tilt than both of them. You have to supply your own foams and that is how I wear them and I find them very comfy as well. Can be had for about 8 bucks prime shipped.
http://www.amazon.com/Philips-SHS3200BK-37-Flexible-Headphones/dp/B003CJTR82/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1457972656&sr=1-1&keywords=Shs3200


----------



## golov17

Del


----------



## BloodyPenguin

The *Dark Horse G400* (400Ω) just arrived!
  
 I have not had a chance to listen to them yet on my home system.

 I did try them quickly on my cellphone, being 400Ω, they of course did not sound that great.

 Starting the burn in process now.  
  
  
  

 [_Here is a quick cellphone picture_]:
  

  
 --


----------



## klove4252

bloodypenguin said:


> The *Dark Horse G400* (400Ω) just arrived!
> 
> I have not had a chance to listen to them yet on my home system.
> 
> ...


 
 Those look amazing. My Cyngus just arrived and they are also great looking. They come with a useful carrying case too. Now I get to listen to them all night.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

klove4252 said:


> Those look amazing. My Cyngus just arrived and they are also great looking. They come with a useful carrying case too. Now I get to listen to them all night.


 

 The Dark Horse G400 also came with a very unique carrying case that you will see when my full review come out.
  
  
 BTW, borrowed a technicians multimeter at work and I can confirm that the G400 is rated at .405 evenly.  
  
 --


----------



## ozkan

klove4252 said:


> Those look amazing. My Cyngus just arrived and they are also great looking. They come with a useful carrying case too. Now I get to listen to them all night.


 
  


bloodypenguin said:


> The Dark Horse G400 also came with a very unique carrying case that you will see when my full review come out.
> 
> 
> BTW, borrowed a technicians multimeter at work and I can confirm that the G400 is rated at .405 evenly.
> ...


 
  
 Looking forward to both of your reviews. Please keep us posted guys.


----------



## Zani004

yacobx said:


> !!!lucky!!!! Mine just left Hong Kong. Please share your thoughts today


 

 My Cygnus left Hong Kong yesterday too.


----------



## goldenSHK

Just picked up a second hand pair of VE Zen 2.0 for $60. Let's see if it's worth it. I'm pretty excited. Already looking into my next pickup before the Zen's even arrive lol. Looking at the Tomahawks or another heavy bass but clear sounding bud next.


----------



## Danneq

goldenshk said:


> Just picked up a second hand pair of VE Zen 2.0 for $60. Let's see if it's worth it. I'm pretty excited. Already looking into my next pickup before the Zen's even arrive lol. Looking at the Tomahawks or another heavy bass but clear sounding bud next.




Addictive, isn't it?


----------



## golov17

Spring sprouts fresh impressions?


----------



## kiler

Sorry for those that are watching this for second time, but I haven't posted the review of the Monk in here!!
  
 Also, any buds with heavy bass and low price? :b


----------



## klove4252

bloodypenguin said:


> The Dark Horse G400 also came with a very unique carrying case that you will see when my full review come out.
> 
> 
> BTW, borrowed a technicians multimeter at work and I can confirm that the G400 is rated at .405 evenly.
> ...


 
 Did you get yours from AliExpress? I see a few different sellers on there with different prices, but I'm assuming the best seller would be Dark Horse Audio.


----------



## goldenSHK

danneq said:


> Addictive, isn't it?


 
 Yes, and also expensive.


----------



## yacobx

goldenshk said:


> danneq said:
> 
> 
> > Addictive, isn't it?
> ...


 
 yeahhh.... i go over my budget for headphones everymonth


----------



## yacobx

klove4252 said:


> bloodypenguin said:
> 
> 
> > The *Dark Horse G400* (400Ω) just arrived!
> ...


 
 I need the Cyngus reviews!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> The *Dark Horse G400* (400Ω) just arrived!
> 
> I have not had a chance to listen to them yet on my home system.
> 
> ...


 
 Can't wait for the review and comparison!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Guys I need your advise. 
  
 Should I spend money on the Shozy Cygnus 
  
 or
  
 Use the money to purchase a headphone amplifier (portable)
  
 Assuming that in my scenario I already have headphone amp and a source.
  
 The amplifier and the shozy is about the same price give or take 50 RMB
  
 Thoughts?
  
 Thank-you


----------



## yacobx

audionewbi3 said:


> Guys I need your advise.
> 
> Should I spend money on the Shozy Cygnus
> 
> ...


 
 having a good DAC/AMP is an exptremly important. On the other hand the Cygnus is a limited edition.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

yacobx said:


> having a good DAC/AMP is an exptremly important. On the other hand the Cygnus is a limited edition.


 
 My current inventory
  
 Source:
 Hifiman HM700 (8GB)
 Xduoo X3 
  
 Amp
 Trasam HA2 (Extreme edition)
 LongSi J20s (RSA Blackbird clone)


----------



## yacobx

audionewbi3 said:


> yacobx said:
> 
> 
> > having a good DAC/AMP is an exptremly important. On the other hand the Cygnus is a limited edition.
> ...


 
 If your are gonna get a new amp it should be in a different price bracket. I think you know why you asked this thread tho. You want us to say, get the Cyngus. GET THE CYNGUS!!!!!!


----------



## klove4252

yacobx said:


> I need the Cyngus reviews!




My first impression is tat I am wowed. The sound is just so much better than I ever expected.


----------



## yacobx

klove4252 said:


> yacobx said:
> 
> 
> > I need the Cyngus reviews!
> ...


 
 I need my pair to get here asap!


----------



## music4mhell

klove4252 said:


> yacobx said:
> 
> 
> > I need the Cyngus reviews!
> ...


 
 +100


----------



## ozkan

klove4252 said:


> My first impression is tat I am wowed. The sound is just so much better than I ever expected.






yacobx said:


> If your are gonna get a new amp it should be in a different price bracket. I think you know why you asked this thread tho. You want us to say, get the Cyngus. GET THE CYNGUS!!!!!!




Shut up and take my money!


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, ordered the DK-Jin.  I'm curious about the sound, and I'm not ashamed to admit the looks also factored in.


----------



## yacobx

Someone needs to make s cyngus thread tho


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Doughnuts foam with Tomahawks is quite nice


----------



## AudioNewbi3

yacobx said:


> If your are gonna get a new amp it should be in a different price bracket. I think you know why you asked this thread tho. You want us to say, get the Cyngus. GET THE CYNGUS!!!!!!


 
 Damn it......hahaha


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> Doughnuts foam with Tomahawks is quite nice


 


 I prefer full foams. But Tomahawks are nice no matter how you listen to them!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> I prefer full foams. But Tomahawks are nice no matter how you listen to them!


 
 Yes, I personally categorize them as "omnivorous" earbuds. In that I think they are good for almost any genre of music. A sort of Jack of all trades and master of none.
  
 Well at least that is my opinion. You can provide some feedback of you disagree hahaha


----------



## klove4252

audionewbi3 said:


> Damn it......hahaha


 
 If it makes your decision any easier, I just did a little test with the Cyngus. My source was the Aune M2P and B1. First, I used the K10U IEM, then the Oriveti Primacy, and then the Cyngus. They are obviously all very different and vary from price point, but the Cyngus performed well beyond its price.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Guess, now comes the million dollar question, where do the awesome people of this awesome thread purchase their Cygnus?

 Aliexpress? Taobao? Penon?

 Is Penon or AE a reputable seller?
  
 EDIT: Will the Cygnus sound good with my budget set up? XduooX3 and Trasam HA2 (Extreme Edition) (supposedly to be a fiio E12 clone or contender)


----------



## Saoshyant

@AudioNewbi3 Penon Audio is one of those very well recommended websites for Head-Fi.  I've personally had nothing but good experiences.


----------



## rggz

@AudioNewbi3 I find this seller on Aliexpress with better price (-$10) than Penon and balanced option of Cygnus, apparently the store has a good reputation but Penon is 100% safe.


----------



## music4mhell

audionewbi3 said:


> Guess, now comes the million dollar question, where do the awesome people of this awesome thread purchase their Cygnus?
> 
> 
> Aliexpress? Taobao? Penon?
> ...


i bought from penon, the ostry and cygnus.. they r very nice..i will order yuin pk1 from them very soon.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

saoshyant said:


> @AudioNewbi3 Penon Audio is one of those very well recommended websites for Head-Fi.  I've personally had nothing but good experiences.


 
  
  


rggz said:


> @AudioNewbi3 I find this seller on Aliexpress with better price (-$10) than Penon and balanced option of Cygnus, apparently the store has a good reputation but Penon is 100% safe.


 
  
  


music4mhell said:


> i bought from penon, the ostry and cygnus.. they r very nice..i will order yuin pk1 from them very soon.


 
  
 Thanks for the reply guys. Guess I will eventually buy the Cygnus from Penon then. 
  
 A very stupid question though, do you guys use guest checkout or sign-up for an account?


----------



## Saoshyant

I wish the balanced Cygnus was 3.5mm


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> Doughnuts foam with Tomahawks is quite nice


 

 Everything about the Tomahawk is quite nice.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 --


----------



## rggz

MRW I find a blog (http://hifiearbuds.net) with reviews of the products I'm waiting/want and it is written in Japonese.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

rggz said:


> MRW I find a blog (http://hifiearbuds.net) with reviews of the products I'm waiting/want and it is written in Japonese.


 
 Translate it using google.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> Everything about the Tomahawk is quite nice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Agreed mate!


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> Yes, I personally categorize them as "omnivorous" earbuds. In that I think they are good for almost any genre of music. A sort of Jack of all trades and master of none.
> 
> Well at least that is my opinion. You can provide some feedback of you disagree hahaha




I agree. The Tomahawks work with just about everything. I only disagree with the donut part. It made the sound slightly too sharp for me...


----------



## Danneq

By the way. I just welcomed two new friends into my house: Asura 2 and Zen 1 via a trade with DarkZenith. He got my Zen 2 & DK-Jin plus some money to cover the difference between Asura & DK-Jin. I really like Zen 1 from only listening to it a few minutes. Closer to my preference than Zen 2, I suppose. Asura has got lovely mids, but a bit too much of 'em. Wish i still had my Yuin PK2 so that I couild compare. PK2 have the nicest mids I've heard in an earbud, but now Asura might challenge that...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Quick impressions - FiiO EM3:
  
 For the life of me, though FiiO says they are not the same, the EM3 sounds JUST like the earbuds that come with the M3 DAP.  And I was not a fan of those.
  
 With little burn in, the EM3 is almost muddy, with a big veil over all frequencies.  Sound signature seems about the same no matter what source I have used so far. 
  
  
 Few quick pictures I took:
  

  
  
  
  
 Original M3 Earbuds White - EM3 Black


  
  
 --


----------



## yacobx

bloodypenguin said:


> Quick impressions - FiiO EM3:
> 
> For the life of me, though FiiO says they are not the same, the EM3 sounds JUST like the earbuds that come with the M3 DAP.  And I was not a fan of those.
> 
> ...


----------



## leobigfield

Listening to the monks exclusively in the last weeks. I just can't take them from my ears and now i'm carving for more. But unfortunately i can't afford the others VE offerings. Is there anything better than the monks around 30$?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

leobigfield said:


> Listening to the monks exclusively in the last weeks. I just can't take them from my ears and now i'm carving for more. But unfortunately i can't afford the others VE offerings. Is there anything better than the monks around 30$?


 

 Better, for $30.  Not that I am aware of.
  
 Jump up to $50 and get the MrZ MusicMaker Tomahawk, now that is an impressive earbud.
  
 ..


----------



## Danneq

leobigfield said:


> Listening to the monks exclusively in the last weeks. I just can't take them from my ears and now i'm carving for more. But unfortunately i can't afford the others VE offerings. Is there anything better than the monks around 30$?




Nope...

You'd have to to around $45-50 to find something better. And that something is Music maker MrZ Tomahawk...


----------



## klove4252

Does anyone have any recommendations for foams for the KC08? Mine just came in today, but I'm struggling with both pairs of stock foams. It is tough to get a good sound impression.


----------



## golov17

klove4252 said:


> Does anyone have any recommendations for foams for the KC08? Mine just came in today, but I'm struggling with both pairs of stock foams. It is tough to get a good sound impression.


maybe Hiegi?


----------



## golov17

http://m.shenzhenaudio.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=Hiegi


----------



## leobigfield

bloodypenguin said:


> Better, for $30.  Not that I am aware of.
> 
> Jump up to $50 and get the MrZ MusicMaker Tomahawk, now that is an impressive earbud.
> 
> ..


 
  


danneq said:


> Nope...
> 
> You'd have to to around $45-50 to find something better. And that something is Music maker MrZ Tomahawk...


 
  
 But how much better? Slightly better, somewhat side upgrade or a nice improvement? I could get them for $40.


----------



## yacobx

leobigfield said:


> bloodypenguin said:
> 
> 
> > Better, for $30.  Not that I am aware of.
> ...


 

 bloody penguin posted a review that you should check out.


----------



## Danneq

leobigfield said:


> But how much better? Slightly better, somewhat side upgrade or a nice improvement? I could get them for $40.




I have described it as going from Monk to Tomahawk is like removing a thick blanket from a speaker. They have a similar sound overall, but details, bass depth, instrument separation etc is better on Tomahawk. Monk's soundstage is slightly bigger.


----------



## leobigfield

yacobx said:


> bloody penguin posted a review that you should check out.


 
 I've already read it but he wasn't with the monks at the time of reviewing for comparison.


----------



## leobigfield

danneq said:


> I have described it as going from Monk to Tomahawk is like removing a thick blanket from a speaker. They have a similar sound overall, but details, bass depth, instrument separation etc is better on Tomahawk. Monk's soundstage is slightly bigger.


 
 Thanks for your thoughts guys!


----------



## klove4252

golov17 said:


> maybe Hiegi?


 
 Thanks for the heads up. I just bought some and will try them out when they arrive. I've been using some of the buds that came with the Yuin PK1, and that has been better so far. The fit isn't great, but I think they are better than the stock foams from the KC08


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> I agree. The Tomahawks work with just about everything. I only disagree with the donut part. It made the sound slightly too sharp for me...


 
  I see I see. I tried them with full foams, but find that the high notes (sometimes) were too muffled for my taste. Guess we just have different preference for high frequencies mate!


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> I see I see. I tried them with full foams, but find that the high notes (sometimes) were too muffled for my taste. Guess we just have different preference for high frequencies mate!


 

 Well, I've got a tiny bit of tinnitus which makes me sensitive to high frequencies. At first I used donuts on my Tomahawks but I felt that highs were a bit too sharp for my liking. Full foams work great and it doesn't remove any detail, in my opinion...


----------



## jrazmar

hope Lee can make a VE Monk 2.0 as I am really loving the Monk (donut foam) better than the Zen 2.0 (foamless) now. and wish it would not be high impedance like the Zen.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> Well, I've got a tiny bit of tinnitus which makes me sensitive to high frequencies. At first I used donuts on my Tomahawks but I felt that highs were a bit too sharp for my liking. Full foams work great and it doesn't remove any detail, in my opinion...


 
 Hmm, guess I will give full foams a try next time.
  
 I have also noticed that by switching all of my bud foams to doughnuts, I seem to get a "cleaner" or less "muffled" sound. Maybe it's a placebo effect? I am not sure,


----------



## AudioNewbi3

audionewbi3 said:


> Thanks for the reply guys. Guess I will eventually buy the Cygnus from Penon then.
> 
> A very stupid question though, do you guys use guest checkout or sign-up for an account?


 
 bump


----------



## kurtextrem

So I've got the Asura 2.0 and wondered if the SHOZY Cygnus are an upgrade or downgrade?


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> Hmm, guess I will give full foams a try next time.
> 
> I have also noticed that by switching all of my bud foams to doughnuts, I seem to get a "cleaner" or less "muffled" sound. Maybe it's a placebo effect? I am not sure,


 

 I think the is a slight reduction in highs with full foams. This is why I put them on my Tomahawks. And different earbuds react differently to full vs donut foams...

  


audionewbi3 said:


> Thanks for the reply guys. Guess I will eventually buy the Cygnus from Penon then.
> 
> A very stupid question though, do you guys use guest checkout or sign-up for an account?


 


 It should be best to register. Then you can follow your orders. I have only bought from Penon on Ebay (the name of the store is Bigbargainonline). But I'll buy from their homepage in the future since shipping is cheaper than from Ebay...


----------



## yacobx

kurtextrem said:


> So I've got the Asura 2.0 and wondered if the SHOZY Cygnus are an upgrade or downgrade?




I have the asura, and my cyngus is on the way. From what I've heard so far it's an upgrade. The asura is very picky about what music it wants to play. It absolutely shines while playing Spanish guitar ballads and classical foamless.


----------



## kurtextrem

yacobx said:


> I have the asura, and my cyngus is on the way. From what I've heard so far it's an upgrade. The asura is very picky about what music it wants to play. It absolutely shines while playing Spanish guitar ballads and classical foamless.


 
 For me the Asura 2.0 fits better without foams, but it hurts without foams  So I use it with.
 Monk fits perfect with foams.
  
 I'll wait for your feedback then


----------



## yacobx

kurtextrem said:


> yacobx said:
> 
> 
> > I have the asura, and my cyngus is on the way. From what I've heard so far it's an upgrade. The asura is very picky about what music it wants to play. It absolutely shines while playing Spanish guitar ballads and classical foamless.
> ...




I find with the donut foams, it has congested mids. I actually like it with full foam but it looses resolution. I ordered the higie foams but the got lost in the mail. That reminds me I need to re order some lol. I'll give you my feedback I'm a week or so. Hifibuds that Japan website actually reviewed them against each other. The translation does work do well but it explains the difference


----------



## kurtextrem

yacobx said:


> I find with the donut foams, it has congested mids. I actually like it with full foam but it looses resolution. I ordered the higie foams but the got lost in the mail. That reminds me I need to re order some lol. I'll give you my feedback I'm a week or so. Hifibuds that Japan website actually reviewed them against each other. The translation does work do well but it explains the difference


 
 Oh you'd say the higie foams are better than the included ones?
 Can you link the comparison?


----------



## music4mhell

Deleted, later i will add


----------



## yacobx

kurtextrem said:


> yacobx said:
> 
> 
> > I find with the donut foams, it has congested mids. I actually like it with full foam but it looses resolution. I ordered the higie foams but the got lost in the mail. That reminds me I need to re order some lol. I'll give you my feedback I'm a week or so. Hifibuds that Japan website actually reviewed them against each other. The translation does work do well but it explains the difference
> ...




Sorry hiegi *** the are just a lil thinner and good quality


----------



## Danneq

Here's a new Tomahawk review


----------



## BloodyPenguin

danneq said:


> Here's a new Tomahawk review


 
  
 Just saw this as well.
  
 Looks like the Tomahawk is quickly picking up steam.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It is by far my favorite earbud I have heard so far, though, there are still MANY others I have yet to have the pleasure of listening to.


----------



## kurtextrem

So... Cygnus vs Tomahawk?


----------



## Danneq

bloodypenguin said:


> Just saw this as well.
> 
> Looks like the Tomahawk is quickly picking up steam.
> 
> ...


 

 Yep. It deserves all the praise it's getting. VE Zen 1 beats Tomahawk in my book (just got those yesterday and have to mention them...). Zen 1 is like a supercalifragilisticexpialidocious version of VE Monk. As amazingly immersive as some people describe Zen 2, but which I couldn't hear with my pair (perhaps I didn't take enough time for burn in?)

 Tomahawk has an overall cleaner sound than Zen 1 while not as immersive. Still, for around $50 it's truly a great deal and they could easily sell for $30-40 more!

 Anyway, will buy a pair of Ting at the end of the month, and perhaps a silver pair of Tomahawk as spare. Also I want to get a pair of Shozy Cygnus before they sell out. Also I heard that Blox might release a "mid fi" earbud in the spring (perhaps around the same level as M2C or BE5 <- my guess after hearing rumors)...

 No rest for the earbud fan these days...


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> bloodypenguin said:
> 
> 
> > Just saw this as well.
> ...


i am going to order tomahawk tomoro..i cnt wait more..even my ting is on the way


----------



## rggz

My pair of Tomahawk's just left China today to my country, so I hope get them in some weeks!

 Could anybody please compare Tomahawks's to E100's on bass and treble amounts and extension? I think compare E100's is a little problematic because apparently some new pairs doesn't match with old pairs on SQ, but will be cool for my hype train also E100 is one of my favorites.


----------



## fleasbaby

danneq said:


> Yep. It deserves all the praise it's getting. VE Zen 1 beats Tomahawk in my book (just got those yesterday and have to mention them...). Zen 1 is like a supercalifragilisticexpialidocious version of VE Monk. As amazingly immersive as some people describe Zen 2, but which I couldn't hear with my pair (perhaps I didn't take enough time for burn in?)
> 
> Tomahawk has an overall cleaner sound than Zen 1 while not as immersive. Still, for around $50 it's truly a great deal and they could easily sell for $30-40 more!
> 
> ...


 

 ...ordered a pair of Tomahawk this morning...you buggers have me curious.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Is it just my pair of Tomahawks or is this common across all Hawks in that I find the cable to be a bit sticky and not smooth.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

http://www.head-fi.org/products/shozy-cygnus/reviews/15495
  
 Someone reviewed the Cygnus!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> Is it just my pair of Tomahawks or is this common across all Hawks in that I find the cable to be a bit sticky and not smooth.


 

 In my review, one of my only "cons" is the rubbery sticky cable.
  
 ..


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> In my review, one of my only "cons" is the rubbery sticky cable.
> 
> ..


 
 Yes I read your review. But the other review of the Tomahawk got me a wee bit confused hahaha


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/products/shozy-cygnus/reviews/15495
> 
> Someone reviewed the Cygnus!


 http://www.hifi-resolution.com/cygnus/


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> http://www.hifi-resolution.com/cygnus/


 
 Yup, the same guy alright.


----------



## Joy Boy

Tomahawk has been my Top buds to. Others is zen 1&2, boarseman mx98. But now i'm so curious about Ting (tomahawks brother) and shozy cygnus.
I want to buy both, but still not enough money.

So, it you're in my position, wich one you should buy? Ting or shozy?
And does anyone have ever heard of Dx.V4 earbuds? It says that it's so limited DIY bud from thailand. More rare than blox series (and someone says that it's also has V2 too).
Thank you so much...

*i'm one of Earbud Lover Indonesia


----------



## golov17

ELI rulez!  dx v4 like blox m2c SQ


----------



## Joy Boy

golov17 said:


> ELI rulez!




Yeah 
I'm waiting for your advice sir, between cygnus and ting.
What about V2? Does it really use the blox driver?


----------



## golov17

Don't know about blox drivers.. Sorry. I buy Cygnus..


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> Don't know about blox drivers.. Sorry. I buy Cygnus..


 
 Golov, where did yo purchase your Cygnus from?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

joy boy said:


> So, it you're in my position, which one you should buy? Ting or shozy?
> 
> *i'm one of Earbud Lover Indonesia


 

 I say Shozy, from the reviews I have read and the little time I spent with the Ting.  I think the Cygnus would be the more exciting of the two.
  

 My replacement Ting is already on the way and I hope to have it any day now.
  
 ..


----------



## klove4252

audionewbi3 said:


> Golov, where did yo purchase your Cygnus from?


 
 I can't speak for Golov, but I got mine from Penon. They were delivered very very fast too. I bought from the site directly to ship to the US


----------



## yacobx

klove4252 said:


> audionewbi3 said:
> 
> 
> > Golov, where did yo purchase your Cygnus from?
> ...


 

 how many days was it for you?


----------



## kiler

These Cygnus look good as well  Also how long does Penon take shipping to EU?


----------



## Joy Boy

bloodypenguin said:


> I say Shozy, from the reviews I have read and the little time I spent with the Ting.  I think the Cygnus would be the more exciting of the two.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thank you sir 
My tomahawk is quite outstanding. Just curious how it's brother sound. But yeah, cygnus steal my attention too


----------



## klove4252

yacobx said:


> how many days was it for you?


 
 I ordered on the 7th of March, and they came in on March 14th.


----------



## yacobx

klove4252 said:


> yacobx said:
> 
> 
> > how many days was it for you?
> ...


 

 dang! I ordered mine on the 9th. That means I should have got mine today  They were a little slow with shipping mine out. They sent it out on the 12th


----------



## Decommo

What is this? Is this real Mr Speaker Tomahawk IEM version? 
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-Design-Music-Maker-TK13-DIY-Custom-Hybrid-Headset-Dynamically-10mm-Unit-Bass-Headphone-HIFI-Fever/32620840406.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.351.yxcv0d


----------



## yacobx

Speaking of the, tomahawk. Can anyone tell me if the metal they use if actually aluminum? I have a problem with Nickel metal and I really want to get it but don't want to have a reaction. does anyone have a contact with the maker?


----------



## Decommo

Has anyone tried Vsonic UU2 earbud? The cable looks amazing but not sure how it sounds.


----------



## hex182

A couple of questions for you earbud connoisseurs.
 1.Forget this one, it was a quick google search and they are the same, in case anyone else is wondering.
 Is OMX 980/985 and MX 980/985 the same thing when it comes to sound?
 2.What are the sound differences between Zen and Zen 2.0?
 3.Forget this one as well, I was just being hopeful.
 Does anyone around here use or listened to the HD800 and is there any earbud similar? Obviously I don't expect the earbud to be as good as the HD800 at anything but is there anything neutral and analytical yet exiting, very revealing yet not overbearing, airy yet impactful... and all that good stuff?


----------



## klove4252

hex182 said:


> A couple of questions for you earbud connoisseurs.
> 1.Forget this one, it was a quick google search and they are the same, in case anyone else is wondering.
> Is OMX 980/985 and MX 980/985 the same thing when it comes to sound?
> 2.What are the sound differences between Zen and Zen 2.0?
> ...


 
 For question 3, it is very tough to compare most earbuds to the HD800, but I can see similarities in one I've tried. I own the HD800 S and the Shozy Cygnus might be what you are looking for. It does have a somewhat neutral sound with exciting mids. It is not overbearing either though, and I think they give off the airy signature you might be looking for.
  
 Hope that helps.


----------



## hex182

klove4252 said:


> For question 3, it is very tough to compare most earbuds to the HD800, but I can see similarities in one I've tried. I own the HD800 S and the Shozy Cygnus might be what you are looking for. It does have a somewhat neutral sound with exciting mids. It is not overbearing either though, and I think they give off the airy signature you might be looking for.
> 
> Hope that helps.


 
 Thanks for the input!
 These things look ghetto, in a good way. I managed to find them on aliexpress however I can't find their specs anywhere, even the shozy website didn't bother with these details. Are they easy to drive, did you ever try to use them with a phone or only dap/amp?


----------



## golov17

hex182 said:


> Thanks for the input!
> These things look ghetto, in a good way. I managed to find them on aliexpress however I can't find their specs anywhere, even the shozy website didn't bother with these details. Are they easy to drive, did you ever try to use them with a phone or only dap/amp?


http://hifiearbuds.net/?p=111


----------



## golov17

decommo said:


> Has anyone tried Vsonic UU2 earbud? The cable looks amazing but not sure how it sounds.


 not good sound, IMHO


----------



## Decommo

golov17 said:


> decommo said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone tried Vsonic UU2 earbud? The cable looks amazing but not sure how it sounds.
> ...



Thank you. You saved me $30


----------



## BloodyPenguin

decommo said:


> What is this? Is this real Mr Speaker Tomahawk IEM version?
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-Design-Music-Maker-TK13-DIY-Custom-Hybrid-Headset-Dynamically-10mm-Unit-Bass-Headphone-HIFI-Fever/32620840406.html


 
  
 Someone did post this a little bit back.  I am going to try and get my hands on pair soon.  Just have to finish up my work/reviews on a few other earbuds first.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 --


----------



## Joy Boy

decommo said:


> Has anyone tried Vsonic UU2 earbud? The cable looks amazing but not sure how it sounds.
> 
> 
> 
> It's too bright for my ears. Lack of bass. A little peaky. But good detail and clarity


----------



## AudioNewbi3

I swear, for the love of God, I promised myself that my SeaHf 320Ohms would be the last earbud which i will ever purchase. I THOUGHT it was going to be an end game earbud for me. How naive I was. 
  
 After the 320Ohms, came the DIY PowerBeats Dual Drivers and the Hifiman ES100 (Got it in a bundle), after that, came the Tomahawks and a pair of vintage Aiwa V14 OEM's.
  
 The final nail in the coffin came today. After I have woken up, refreshed myself and was sitting infront of my computer, I felt a strange urge to login to my newly created Penon account. I clicked the Cygnus and before I knew it, I received a Paypal confirmation letter in my email..............
  
  
 What have I become.......what have I become............


----------



## Saoshyant

AudioNewbi3 Your best bet is to take a break from Head-fi. Not reading about this stuff daily gets it off yor mind


----------



## music4mhell

audionewbi3 said:


> I swear, for the love of God, I promised myself that my SeaHf 320Ohms would be the last earbud which i will ever purchase. I THOUGHT it was going to be an end game earbud for me. How naive I was.
> 
> After the 320Ohms, came the DIY PowerBeats Dual Drivers and the Hifiman ES100 (Got it in a bundle), after that, came the Tomahawks and a pair of vintage Aiwa V14 OEM's.
> 
> ...


 
 Luckily i don't have a Paypal account, i order every thing from Aliexpress  Now i will never create paypal


----------



## Decommo

saoshyant said:


> AudioNewbi3 Your best bet is to take a break from Head-fi. Not reading about this stuff daily gets it off yor mind



Very well said. This is becoming a habit and can't get away easily. Addictive habit


----------



## Zani004

audionewbi3 said:


> I swear, for the love of God, I promised myself that my SeaHf 320Ohms would be the last earbud which i will ever purchase. I THOUGHT it was going to be an end game earbud for me. How naive I was.
> 
> After the 320Ohms, came the DIY PowerBeats Dual Drivers and the Hifiman ES100 (Got it in a bundle), after that, came the Tomahawks and a pair of vintage Aiwa V14 OEM's.
> 
> ...


 

 LOL


----------



## Danneq

hex182 said:


> A couple of questions for you earbud connoisseurs.
> 
> 1.Forget this one, it was a quick google search and they are the same, in case anyone else is wondering.
> Is OMX 980/985 and MX 980/985 the same thing when it comes to sound?
> ...




I can answer 1 and perhaps 2:

1. I've got a pair of MX980 & OMX980 and the only difference between them is that OMX has got ear hooks. I actually find OMX more comfortable...

2. My subjective impressions are that Zen 2 has got more focus on lower frequencies which leads to a slight lack of details in higher frequencies. I prefer Zen as it feels more balanced to me. Zen is more like Monk in sound but much much better...


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> I swear, for the love of God, I promised myself that my SeaHf 320Ohms would be the last earbud which i will ever purchase. I THOUGHT it was going to be an end game earbud for me. How naive I was.
> 
> After the 320Ohms, came the DIY PowerBeats Dual Drivers and the Hifiman ES100 (Got it in a bundle), after that, came the Tomahawks and a pair of vintage Aiwa V14 OEM's.
> 
> ...




Yeah, that's how it is... Well, at least you try to keep from buying everything at once? I try to only buy 1 or 2 earbuds a month and I am very strict - if I do not like it enough I sell or trade it.


----------



## music4mhell

This thread is on Nitro


----------



## Decommo

danneq said:


> audionewbi3 said:
> 
> 
> > I swear, for the love of God, I promised myself that my SeaHf 320Ohms would be the last earbud which i will ever purchase. I THOUGHT it was going to be an end game earbud for me. How naive I was.
> ...




Good idea. I might do that too.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

saoshyant said:


> @AudioNewbi3 Your best bet is to take a break from Head-fi. Not reading about this stuff daily gets it off yor mind


 
  
 Yes, I should probably go on a hiatus from this thread or head-fi once my Shozy arrives......
  


music4mhell said:


> Luckily i don't have a Paypal account, i order every thing from Aliexpress  Now i will never create paypal


 
  
 Paypal is actually quite useful even not for purchasing stuff online. Penon also accepts credit and debit cards by the way...........so you know what to do.
   
 Quote:


> Very well said. This is becoming a habit and can't get away easily. Addictive habit


 
  
 Lets just hope that a few days or weeks away from this thread will be a good solution hahahaha.
  


danneq said:


> Yeah, that's how it is... Well, at least you try to keep from buying everything at once? I try to only buy 1 or 2 earbuds a month and I am very strict - if I do not like it enough I sell of trade it.


 
  
 Yes, that is exactly what I do. Being a student is though, in order to purchase buds, I may have to skimp on other things, i.e. eating cheaper and overall spending less hahaha. The problem here is that it is quite hard to sell off 2nd hand buds.


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> Yes, that is exactly what I do. Being a student is though, in order to purchase buds, I may have to skimp on other things, i.e. eating cheaper and overall spending less hahaha. The problem here is that it is quite hard to sell off 2nd hand buds.


 

 I understand. I've got a 1,5 year old son and shouldn't spend too much either. But then again, right now spending money on audio stuff is my only "sin".
 If you want to sell something you could mention it here. Perhaps not too loud since it might be against forum rules, but you could probably sell second hand earbuds on Head Fi.

 I used to sell my old earbuds on Ebay and sometimes got good money. However I had a bad experience with one buyer and after that I don't sell on Ebay anymore...


----------



## Joy Boy

danneq said:


> Yeah, that's how it is... Well, at least you try to keep from buying everything at once? I try to only buy 1 or 2 earbuds a month and I am very strict - if I do not like it enough I sell or trade it.




That's what i'm doing. But trust me, this "poison" of bud will never end. It's so addictive. I've ever had more than 100 buds before, now i just spend 7 of them. And probably will sell 2 of them so i can buy cygnus or Ting


----------



## Saoshyant

I'm honestly debating selling my HE400 to pickup the Cygnus. Great headphone, but it's almost never used these days.


----------



## yacobx

saoshyant said:


> I'm honestly debating selling my HE400 to pickup the Cygnus. Great headphone, but it's almost never used these days.




Wow!


----------



## music4mhell

My Tomahawk Ting has reached my city post office 
 May be in next 1/2 days i will get it, i am curious to compare between Ting and Cygnus & Zen 2.


----------



## jant71

Well, I got my Dark Horse E4 and adapter/tuning cables cables today.
  
 Quick first impression is kinda all over the place. Pics to come 
  
 Nice looking and feeling earbuds. Come with the thin square carbon fiber look zip case with a red zipper. A clip and several solid an donut foams. Part of the reason for all over the place is the stock foams are a bit thinner so my right side wants to start popping out from the top edge. Gonna have to go to thicker foams. Now I have Earhoox on them. They are made for perfect Earhoox fit. Haven't tried Earhoox plus foams yet. They are well balance and quite clear and clean w/o anything on the front. Still want some foam or some bass boost to give them some punch. They look like this...





 The slender metal rods the cable routs though are the reason the top will tend to tip out esp. on my right ear. Fairly thin so they are out a bit and not resting against any ear parts, then the cable weight puls down and then they can start to point or angle in. Of course when the rod angles in the top edge of the bud angles out.  Earhooks fixes it and of course ear anatomy will dictate if this may or may not be any kind of issue. Something to go over the rods and build up the thickness there is also another possible fix.
  
 The other thing is that I am trying those damn cables on them. They do work!! but they are a bitch to plug into them with a very tight fit that takes good force to snap in the last bit. They do what they say as far as one does give more bass. one dials in the vocals and the third balances sound but kinda hard to hear on these dark horse with just Earhoox as they are well balanced already. Need to try with other buds.  All three cables seem to accentuate mids as well so the mids one does the mids(mid-foward only), the bass one does the bass but brings the mids even with it(bass and mid-foward), and the last kinda gives some more of all three in it's pursuit of balance. Noticeable but not gonna be night and day difference. Nice quality as well only issue is the annoyingly hard to snap in jacks.
  
 I'll have to take some pics of the stuff and stop with the New Toy Syndrome and just get down to checking out/learning about the Dark Horse!


----------



## goldenSHK

Picked up a second hand Zen 2.0 for $60. I'm very impressed with the value although obviously that's not it's real price brand new. First impressions are highly positive compared to the MX985. Will continue to listen and report back. It's not too hard to power properly so I don't really know what a lot of people here are complaining about. It's definitely not a "plug straight into the phone" type earbud, but some people are claiming pretty crazy things about its power requirement which just isn't true. Will try to come up with a comparison with the MX985 when ready.


----------



## waynes world

goldenshk said:


> Picked up a second hand Zen 2.0 for $60. I'm very impressed with the value although obviously that's not it's real price brand new. First impressions are highly positive compared to the MX985. Will continue to listen and report back. It's not too hard to power properly so I don't really know what a lot of people here are complaining about. It's definitely not a "plug straight into the phone" type earbud, but some people are claiming pretty crazy things about its power requirement which just isn't true. Will try to come up with a comparison with the MX985 when ready.


 
  
 The 2.0 is pretty much perfection. Great deal - congrats!


----------



## yacobx

goldenshk said:


> Picked up a second hand Zen 2.0 for $60. I'm very impressed with the value although obviously that's not it's real price brand new. First impressions are highly positive compared to the MX985. Will continue to listen and report back. It's not too hard to power properly so I don't really know what a lot of people here are complaining about. It's definitely not a "plug straight into the phone" type earbud, but some people are claiming pretty crazy things about its power requirement which just isn't true. Will try to come up with a comparison with the MX985 when ready.



60? Lee warned about fakes being released in China. If they are the real deal, congrats man!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Hey guys, how long does it take for Penon to process one's order? I ordered my Cygnus yesterday and it (my order) is still being processed today.


----------



## Zani004

audionewbi3 said:


> Hey guys, how long does it take for Penon to process one's order? I ordered my Cygnus yesterday and it (my order) is still being processed today.


 

 Took them 4 days to send mine.


----------



## music4mhell

Just got the Ting, much awaited earbud after zen 2.
  
 Well Ting is more neutral than cygnus, cygnus has a bit more highs and lows 
 That's the only difference in my 1st 5 mins side by side comparison.
  
 I ordered Tomahwak 2015 edition to compare more.
  
 As usual, in depth review is on the way


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Almost done with my Dark Horse G400 Review, I hope to have it finished in the next day or so
  
 I won't say much, but I think the title will give you a good idea how I feel about this earbud:
  
  
 "*The Dark Horse G400 is no Black Beauty*"
  

  
  
 --


----------



## goldenSHK

yacobx said:


> 60? Lee warned about fakes being released in China. If they are the real deal, congrats man!


 
 I got them from someone that bought it straight from the verified AliExpress shop. So I think I'm good!  
  
  
 Really liking them so far too. I don't think anyone would need anymore earbuds after the MX985 and Zen 2.0. They go quite well with each other.


----------



## Danneq

goldenshk said:


> I got them from someone that bought it straight from the verified AliExpress shop. So I think I'm good!
> 
> 
> Really liking them so far too. I don't think anyone would need anymore earbuds after the MX985 and Zen 2.0. They go quite well with each other.


 

 You should try to find a second hand pair of Zen 1.0 as well. And you can't stop buying earbuds! What about Shozy Cygnus? Music Maker Ting? Music Maker MrZ Tomahawk? Ostry KC08? Dunu Alpha 1?


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> goldenshk said:
> 
> 
> > I got them from someone that bought it straight from the verified AliExpress shop. So I think I'm good!
> ...


 
 You forgot Darkhorse G400 (400 Ohms)


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> You forgot Darkhorse G400 (400 Ohms)


 

 And perhaps a few more...


----------



## kurtextrem

danneq said:


> You should try to find a second hand pair of Zen 1.0 as well. And you can't stop buying earbuds! What about Shozy Cygnus? Music Maker Ting? Music Maker MrZ Tomahawk? Ostry KC08? Dunu Alpha 1?


 
 Ok. Too much to buy!
 Which one of those is "better" than the Asura 2.0? You guys make me wanna buy so many things...
  
 One thing I've noticed: The Music Maker buds seem to be huge. The Asura 2.0 + foams are slightly too large already for my ears. Monks + foams fit perfectly. Which of those are similar to the Monk?


----------



## Danneq

kurtextrem said:


> Ok. Too much to buy!
> Which one of those is "better" than the Asura 2.0? You guys make me wanna buy so many things...
> 
> One thing I've noticed: The Music Maker buds seem to be huge. The Asura 2.0 + foams are slightly too large already for my ears. Monks + foams fit perfectly. Which of those are similar to the Monk?


 

 Well, at least the earbud world is a lot smaller than the IEM one. And you could buy all the high end earbuds, including Celsus Gramo One ($249) and Rose Mojito (around $230 from Aliexpress) for less than one high end custom IEM (example here).

 I cannot comment on Ting, but Tomahawk has got better fit in my ears than VE & Blox earbuds. The Music Maker buds are not much bigger than those. Perhaps they are about the same size? But the design of the housing is better for at least my ears.


----------



## goldenSHK

danneq said:


> You should try to find a second hand pair of Zen 1.0 as well. And you can't stop buying earbuds! What about Shozy Cygnus? Music Maker Ting? Music Maker MrZ Tomahawk? Ostry KC08? Dunu Alpha 1?


 
 I will try to find a pair of Zen 1.0 after awhile. I've heard they are good too just different than 2.0. I thought that it was generally acknowledged that the Zen 2.0 and MX985 (top spot in ClieOS's rankings) were pretty much the best of the entire earbud world. I know that at the top it's "just taste" but the MX985 and the Zen 2.0 really do seem to my ears to be objectively better in bass, detail, and soundstage than all other earbuds I've heard. If you think any of the ones you named are equals to the Zen 2.0 or MX985 I'll give those a fair chance and order a pair of them as well.


----------



## Danneq

goldenshk said:


> I will try to find a pair of Zen 1.0 after awhile. I've heard they are good too just different than 2.0. I thought that it was generally acknowledged that the Zen 2.0 and MX985 (top spot in ClieOS's rankings) were pretty much the best of the entire earbud world. I know that at the top it's "just taste" but the MX985 and the Zen 2.0 really do seem to my ears to be objectively better in bass, detail, and soundstage than all other earbuds I've heard. If you think any of the ones you named are equals to the Zen 2.0 or MX985 I'll give those a fair chance and order a pair of them as well.


 

 Tomahawk is a step down from MX980 ( haven't heard MX985 but they should be close or even identical to MX980). But it definitely is a top end earbud if you go by sound. Detail, soundstage, instrument separation etc is very very good.

 I traded my Zen 2.0 for a pair of Zen 1.0. I understand that Zen 2.0 technically is great, but for me highs sounded subdued, no matter what sources I used. I did try to EQ high frequencies +10dB and then it sounded more balanced.
 Perhaps the subdued highs have got something to do with inadequate burn in? Well well, I loved Zen 1.0 from the first second I heard it. Now it's no 4 on my top 5 (Blox TM7 as no1, Sony MDR-E252 as no 2, Sennheiser MX980 as no 3 and Tomahawk as no 5. Well, I have to compare Tomahawk to my old Sony E282 & E484...)

 At least Shozy Cygnus seems to be very good, especially for the price. Tomahawk is a definite recommendation. Tomahawks big brother Ting seems to be very good but much more neutral than Tomahawk.
 I'll get 'em all even if it takes some time and then sell the ones that do not suit my tastes...


----------



## music4mhell

i wanna trade my zen 2 for Zen 1, any1 intersted ?


----------



## lexus91

danneq said:


> Tomahawk is a step down from MX980 ( haven't heard MX985 but they should be close or even identical to MX980). But it definitely is a top end earbud if you go by sound. Detail, soundstage, instrument separation etc is very very good.
> 
> I traded my Zen 2.0 for a pair of Zen 1.0. I understand that Zen 2.0 technically is great, but for me highs sounded subdued, no matter what sources I used. I did try to EQ high frequencies +10dB and then it sounded more balanced.
> Perhaps the subdued highs have got something to do with inadequate burn in? Well well, I loved Zen 1.0 from the first second I heard it. Now it's no 4 on my top 5 (Blox TM7 as no1, Sony MDR-E252 as no 2, Sennheiser MX980 as no 3 and Tomahawk as no 5. Well, I have to compare Tomahawk to my old Sony E282 & E484...)
> ...


 
 how about Black Onyx Earbuds ? 
  
 I owned Zen 1 and tomahawk. haven't heard the mx985/980. 
  
 Zen 1 is very good (mine still relatively new around 70ish hour of usage), tomahawk is brand new. the Black Onyx has the most play time. 
  
 i don't know but for me even between zen 1 and BOE is a very though choice. its about the presentation of zen 1 is bothering me slightly. I definetly love them without foam. hands down the best. but the bass is lacking without foam. tried the donut foam, its good, but i feel that somehow they could be better somehow..
  
 probably just new toy syndrome but i love the tomahawk. that mids..


----------



## Danneq

lexus91 said:


> how about Black Onyx Earbuds ?
> 
> I owned Zen 1 and tomahawk. haven't heard the mx985/980.
> 
> ...


 

 Haven't heard Black Onyx, but BloodyPenguin seems to like them a lot.

 I suppose you could say that I had some problems with the presentation of Zen 2.0, but I don't have any with Zen 1.0. They remind me of Monk, but a sort of perfected version of the Monks. Bass isn't as heavy as on Zen 2.0, but it's very detailed and well textured. With some slight EQing you get more weight in the lower end. For me they work well with full foams.

 And yeah, mids are nice on Tomahawk and there's nothing bad I can say about them. 

  


music4mhell said:


> i wanna trade my zen 2 for Zen 1, any1 intersted ?


 

 You could always start a trade listing in the sales forum.


----------



## lexus91

danneq said:


> Haven't heard Black Onyx, but BloodyPenguin seems to like them a lot.
> 
> I suppose you could say that I had some problems with the presentation of Zen 2.0, but I don't have any with Zen 1.0. They remind me of Monk, but a sort of perfected version of the Monks. Bass isn't as heavy as on Zen 2.0, but it's very detailed and well textured. With some slight EQing you get more weight in the lower end. For me they work well with full foams.
> 
> ...


 
 I just loved the BOE in general. the way they presenting the music suits my taste very well. Zen 1.0 without foam exceeds even this. Honestly Zen 1.0 foamless sounds heavenly. its just the bass is lacking. . I'm looking for thinner donut foam that covers only small parts of the bud's face. i think it could fix this. just haven't found the suitable foam yet.
  
 i feel like the tomahawk is right in between zen 1.0 (with foam) and onyx. i think that's why i love em so much even out of the box.


----------



## yacobx

lexus91 said:


> danneq said:
> 
> 
> > Haven't heard Black Onyx, but BloodyPenguin seems to like them a lot.
> ...




You guys are making me curious about the zen 1


----------



## BloodyPenguin

lexus91 said:


> how about Black Onyx Earbuds ?
> 
> probably just new toy syndrome but i love the tomahawk. that mids..


 

 Quote: 





danneq said:


> Haven't heard Black Onyx, but BloodyPenguin seems to like them a lot.
> 
> And yeah, mids are nice on Tomahawk and there's nothing bad I can say about them.


 
  
  
 Yes, I really like the BOE:  http://www.head-fi.org/products/earbud-thailand-black-onyx-earbud-boe/reviews/14988

 Though they are out of stock and will not sell that model again.  They are working on something better now.
  
  
 The Tomahawk has the best mids I have ever heard in an earbud.
  
 --


----------



## yacobx

bloodypenguin said:


> lexus91 said:
> 
> 
> > how about Black Onyx Earbuds ?
> ...




Do you have asura 2.0?


----------



## Danneq

I think that Yuin PK2 has got sweeter mids. But Tomahawk beats PK2 in everything else...


----------



## kurtextrem

danneq said:


> Well, at least the earbud world is a lot smaller than the IEM one. And you could buy all the high end earbuds, including Celsus Gramo One ($249) and Rose Mojito (around $230 from Aliexpress) for less than one high end custom IEM (example here).
> 
> I cannot comment on Ting, but Tomahawk has got better fit in my ears than VE & Blox earbuds. The Music Maker buds are not much bigger than those. Perhaps they are about the same size? But the design of the housing is better for at least my ears.


 
 That is a bit too much for my taste.
  
 Everything under 100$ is okay for me (although I feel that price is still "huge").
  
 Now I'm torn between Cygnus, Tomahawk and the Ting. Damn...


----------



## Danneq

kurtextrem said:


> That is a bit too much for my taste.
> 
> Everything under 100$ is okay for me (although I feel that price is still "huge").
> 
> Now I'm torn between Cygnus, Tomahawk and the Ting. Damn...


 

 I thought like that once. Then I got into vintage Sony and Aiwa earbuds and then all budget restraints flew out the window. Now I don't have as much to spend because of having a kid, and the two Aiwa earbuds I need to complete my collection, V99 & V9, are the two most expensive. You can expect to pay more than $400 for a pair of V99 in good condition and $600-800 for a pair of V9 in good condition. These old buds sound stellar and can even beat most of the best ones today. But you are mainly paying for collectors items...

 About Cygnus, Tomahawk and Ting: how about one a month for the next three months?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

yacobx said:


> Do you have asura 2.0?


 

 No, wish I did.  I would love to hear how they compare.
  
 ..


----------



## AudioNewbi3

My Cygnus has just been sent by Penon Audio. Now fingers crossed, I should be getting it by next week.......well hopefully...........
 Now the waiting game commences. Eager to compared the performance of the Cygnus against the Tomahawk.
  
 Side question, does the green layer of cooper oxide (I presume) which forms on the Cygnus's cable detrimental to the overall performance of the earbud? Or does the oxide layer actually serve as a barrier against further oxygenation?  
  
 Thank-you


----------



## lexus91

bloodypenguin said:


> Yes, I really like the BOE:  http://www.head-fi.org/products/earbud-thailand-black-onyx-earbud-boe/reviews/14988
> 
> Though they are out of stock and will not sell that model again.  They are working on something better now.
> 
> ...


 
 really? i was planning to buy another pair or two of the BOE because i like them that much. no wonder its so hard to get one, even i bought mine second hand..


----------



## lexus91

audionewbi3 said:


> My Cygnus has just been sent by Penon Audio. Now fingers crossed, I should be getting it by next week.......well hopefully...........
> Now the waiting game commences. Eager to compared the performance of the Cygnus against the Tomahawk.
> 
> Side question, does the green layer of cooper oxide (I presume) which forms on the Cygnus's cable detrimental to the overall performance of the earbud? Or does the oxide layer actually serve as a barrier against further oxygenation?
> ...


 
 I don't know about cygnus' but i owned UE 11, and the oxidation affects the highs quality, become muddier than before.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

lexus91 said:


> really? i was planning to buy another pair or two of the BOE because i like them that much. no wonder its so hard to get one, even i bought mine second hand..


 

 I've spoken with the owner of Earbud Thailand and he said:  "I've been improving the quality of sound, appearance and packaging of my earbud, I will let you know when I am finished".
  
  
 I'm excited to see he comes up with, but I wish I had been able to purchase a 2nd pair for a back up.
  
 --


----------



## klove4252

I just got my Tomahawks in yesterday and Asura 2 in the day before. I haven't had that much time to do a real initial impression, but I've been listening to them through various sources, and based on the very small sample size I like the Tomahawks better. The soundstage on the Tomahawks is just awesome.
  
 I'm obsessed with the Cyngus too.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

klove4252 said:


> I just got my Tomahawks in yesterday and Asura 2 in the day before. I haven't had that much time to do a real initial impression, but I've been listening to them through various sources, and based on the very small sample size I like the Tomahawks better. The soundstage on the Tomahawks is just awesome.
> 
> I'm obsessed with the Cyngus too.


 
 can you elaborate more on Toma vs Cygnus? and has your cable turned green?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

lexus91 said:


> I don't know about cygnus' but i owned UE 11, and the oxidation affects the highs quality, become muddier than before.


 
 That is not what I wanted to hear....sigh


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> My Cygnus has just been sent by Penon Audio. Now fingers crossed, I should be getting it by next week.......well hopefully...........
> Now the waiting game commences. Eager to compared the performance of the Cygnus against the Tomahawk.
> 
> Side question, does the green layer of cooper oxide (I presume) which forms on the Cygnus's cable detrimental to the overall performance of the earbud? Or does the oxide layer actually serve as a barrier against further oxygenation?
> ...


 

 Is the cable not covered by rubber or some other material? I asked Shozy about the Cygnus cable on their Facebook page:
  
 Danneq: 





> How quick does this happen (cable turning green?) At around how high air humidity? During winter air humidity is only around 30-40% in Sweden but in July/August it can go up to 65-70%


 
  
 Shozy: 





> all depends... but yah it will get green eventually


 
  
  
 They recommend that you get a dry box if you live in a country with high air humidity. Perhaps I should be glad for living in Sweden, where your skin cracks and breaks in winter because of the dry air...

 But Shozy should release a Cygnus 2.0 with new cable or something that prevents that sort of oxidation.


----------



## AudioNewbi3 (Dec 9, 2017)

danneq said:


> Is the cable not covered by rubber or some other material? I asked Shozy about the Cygnus cable on their Facebook page:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Cygnus 2.0?! Care to elaborate my friend? Bad news for me I guess, maybe I should have canceled my order with Penon.......


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> Cygnus 2.0?! Care to elaborate my friend? Bad news for me I guess. I live in Malaysia a TROPICAL country..........wow...just wow.....maybe I should have canceled my order with Penon.......


 

 I mean that they should use another cable. That version of Cygnus with new cable can be called "Cygnus 2.0"...


----------



## Joy Boy

If they'll realease cygnus 2.0, then i should delay to buy it. I still confused wich one i should buy next between cygnus or ting. 
Zen 1.0 & 2.0 still on my top list. Followed by tomahawk, mx985 (already sold), asura beta, boars mx98 (yeah you should try it), and edifier h180 mod.

And i still try to find TM7 or ANV3/se & KZ-OMX2. So hard to find someone who wanna sell it new/second hand 
Still waiting for my dx.v4 earbud from thai.


----------



## lexus91

joy boy said:


> If they'll realease cygnus 2.0, then i should delay to buy it. I still confused wich one i should buy next between cygnus or ting.
> Zen 1.0 & 2.0 still on my top list. Followed by tomahawk, mx985 (already sold), asura beta, boars mx98 (yeah you should try it), and edifier h180 mod.
> 
> And i still try to find TM7 or ANV3/se & KZ-OMX2. So hard to find someone who wanna sell it new/second hand
> ...


 
 I'm also curious of how ting sounds. i heard they sounds neutral compared to tomahawk.


----------



## kurtextrem

Don't get confused, I don't think they plan a Cygnus 2.0 (or not yet). The 2.0 was only a suggestion by Danneq.


----------



## supplehope

Based on what I have read about The Cygnus so far, maybe I can make a suggestion to Shozy - use a sleeve or just use a cliche but simple black cable if there would be 2.0, in my experience with a pure copper in-ears cable that went both annoyingly stiff and oxidised.


----------



## rggz

Well, I think if you storage your Cygnus with silica gel you'll delay this effect. 
  
 If I am not mistaken in black cables with same conductive material has the same effect of oxidation but you won't see like white/transparent cables. IMO it's more an issue with aesthetics.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

My replacement Ting should be here any day now.  Really looking forward to spending some time with it.  I want to put it head to head with the Dark Horse G400, I think the Ting is going to win out, but I will find out for sure very soon.
  
 ..


----------



## Joy Boy

Is it true that the oxidation affect cygnus sounds?
I don' really care about the color. I mean it becomes a little bit unique. 
But if the sound became sidegrade/downgrade than previous, it makes me so worry to have it


----------



## golov17

Guys, take it easy. I am sure that the patina will not affect the sound, like Zen1.0, some also was green, but without a change in the sound. IMHO.


----------



## supplehope

In my experience with the cable that I had with IM02 (in-ears, so little off topic), only the ergonomics on that alone had changed my thinking about cables in general. Do "better" cables sounds better, but also worth for? That's one to find out, but for me, I just personally prefer cables that doesn't go stiff, regardless of the fact that most cables, if not all do oxidise.
  
 Let's just drop the cable talk, shall we?


----------



## klove4252

audionewbi3 said:


> can you elaborate more on Toma vs Cygnus? and has your cable turned green?


 
 I haven't had enough time with the Tomahawk's yet to do a full comparison. They are both fairly easily to drive, and they both have clear mids. As of right now, I prefer the Cygnus, but that might just be because I've had more time with them.


----------



## vapman

I wasn't aware Shozy had earbuds out. I'd be interested to try them!
  
 I bought a couple buds during the last Easy Earphones the other week but I'm thinking about putting in a second order soon, so maybe I'll try the Cygnus too.


----------



## Joy Boy

golov17 said:


> Guys, take it easy. I am sure that the patina will not affect the sound, like Zen1.0, some also was green, but without a change in the sound. IMHO.




Then glad to hear that. Someone told me that the different sound sensation may be just a suggestion. Some aftershock reaction when see the cable changing


----------



## golov17

joy boy said:


> Then glad to hear that. Someone told me that the different sound sensation may be just a suggestion. Some aftershock reaction when see the cable changing


 Yes, am I think it's more like a debate about burn in earbuds and brain


----------



## golov17

If I can not see the wind, I see what he is doing, and I do not need to have proof. Although for someone it is not so obvious, lol


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> I mean that they should use another cable. That version of Cygnus with new cable can be called "Cygnus 2.0"...


 
  
 Ah I see I see. For a second there I thought Cygnus 2.0 was going to be out soon.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
 Quote:


joy boy said:


> If they'll realease cygnus 2.0, then i should delay to buy it. I still confused wich one i should buy next between cygnus or ting.
> Zen 1.0 & 2.0 still on my top list. Followed by tomahawk, mx985 (already sold), asura beta, boars mx98 (yeah you should try it), and edifier h180 mod.
> 
> And i still try to find TM7 or ANV3/se & KZ-OMX2. So hard to find someone who wanna sell it new/second hand
> ...


 
  
 dx. v4 earbud? care to elaborate and provide links mate?
   
 Quote:


kurtextrem said:


> Don't get confused, I don't think they plan a Cygnus 2.0 (or not yet). The 2.0 was only a suggestion by Danneq.


 
  
 Ah I see I see.
  


rggz said:


> Well, I think if you storage your Cygnus with silica gel you'll delay this effect.
> 
> If I am not mistaken in black cables with same conductive material has the same effect of oxidation but you won't see like white/transparent cables. IMO it's more an issue with aesthetics.


 
  
 Yes using silica gel will delay the effect, but then again the cable will be green in the end though. I could care less about how they look, as long as they continue to sound great haha. Having a green cable is unique in it's own way.
  


golov17 said:


> Guys, take it easy. I am sure that the patina will not affect the sound, like Zen1.0, some also was green, but without a change in the sound. IMHO.


 
  
 O.o I never knew that even the Zen 1.0's cable would turn green. I thought it was pure silver cable
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


supplehope said:


> In my experience with the cable that I had with IM02 (in-ears, so little off topic), only the ergonomics on that alone had changed my thinking about cables in general. Do "better" cables sounds better, but also worth for? That's one to find out, but for me, I just personally prefer cables that doesn't go stiff, regardless of the fact that most cables, if not all do oxidise.
> 
> Let's just drop the cable talk, shall we?


 
  
 I too hope that, the cable of the Cygnus won't go stiff in the long run. A change in cable color is quite welcomed in my book, as long as they DO NOT affect the sound on an audible level.


----------



## Joy Boy

AudioNewbi3 there's no link. Very limited product. Even in my country there's only 2 of them, and i bought it from my friend. Someone says its rarer than blox series. I'll share the review later


----------



## music4mhell

This thread is on a roll


----------



## golov17

https://www.facebook.com/okerdx/


----------



## vapman

Is Penon the only people selling the Cygnus?


----------



## rggz

vapman said:


> Is Penon the only people selling the Cygnus?


 
  
 I bought mine from Penon because the store has a good reputation, but I find this other seller on Aliexpress with better price than Penon and balanced version for A&K daps.


----------



## vapman

I was just hoping I didn't have to import it


----------



## yacobx

Has anyone seen this yet?

http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32616527815.html


----------



## BloodyPenguin

yacobx said:


> Has anyone seen this yet?
> 
> http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32616527815.html


 

 Seen, yes it has been posted up a few times.
  
 Though, not sure if anyone has heard it yet.
  
 --


----------



## jant71

I hope the Cygnus cable doesn't harden. We should all know that copper is going to turn green and is still doing so even if we can't see it behind black sheathing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 Back to more on the Dark Horse E4. Even w/o foams today they were not bad outside on a very windy day. With foam they should do well to seal a bit more of the sound in. Cable is great. Not much noise, lays well, and is supple but doesn't seem to bounce around. Temps are going to freezing over the weekend so I'll test the sheathing out.
  
 Had a quick A/B test vs. the Monk. Tone is more accurate on voice, guitar, piano(everything) on the DH. Extension is better than the Monk. Bass is quicker and tighter and only slightly less than the Monk even with foams on. Bass decay is slower and bloat is heard but to be fair I need to take the foams off of the Monk(difference will be less but Monk will still lose). So, it is a bit closer but DH still wins. Separation and positioning is much better one the DH and it can 3D render better including front to back blending and it makes it even more cohesive and quite fun. DH is voiced pretty similar to the Monk but the Monk is slower and a bit tired sounding in comparison and positions a bit less speaker like. They are both pretty similar with regards to sound balance. DH sounds similar to the Monk, more than the Zen 2.0 did since the DH has more treble and the mid, bass, and treble amounts are nearly the same just better on the DH than on the Monk.
  
 Need to do more burn-in and testing but the DH should at least fall in between the Monk and Tomahawk(Which I haven't heard). With the right fit they may just match the Tomahawk. I push them in exactly right and they sound quite lovely. Had the Tomahawk in the cart first but switched and ordered the DH instead. Not regretting it so far. Cable is smooth, more plastic-like and glides over stuff unlike the reports of the Tomahawk cable. Pretty sure the Tomahawk would do better for fit though which is a pretty big deal.
  
 As for my fit with the DH,  I am going to sacrifice some ear guides to make caps to snap onto and build up the stems and make the fit better.


----------



## music4mhell

no activity ?

by da way in last 1 day, i came to conclusion that cygnus > ting in all aspects...


----------



## Zani004

music4mhell said:


> no activity ?
> 
> by da way in last 1 day, i came to conclusion that cygnus > ting in all aspects...


 

 That sort of talk is just making me all the more impatient for mine to arrive.


----------



## markkkun

I hate this thread. Finally I've bought the Tomahawks. No more recommendations please


----------



## Decommo

Great to know cygnus is better than Ting. Now it would be great comparing between Cygnus and Tomahawk..


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Where are all the review of them new buds hahahaha. Jokes aside, reviewers, I am very much looking forward to reviews....oh and comparisons of the recent ear buds mentioned here.

 Tings, Cygnus, Dark Horse....................... etc


----------



## kurtextrem

Just bought the Tomahawk. Didn't want to miss the sale on AliExpress.... anyway the Cygnus is still on my list


----------



## yacobx

My cyngus is in Chicago! I'm stopping on this bus for a while. Lol. I mean I'm going to try too.


----------



## oopeteroo

tomahawks on sale ? how much is it compare to the normal price ?

also I remember someone posted two links to a Chinese hi-fi site? anyone remember those? I'm looking for a Chinese head-fi for my dad as he only can read Chinese.....

also I don't know if it's allowed to ask, sorry if itsnt and mod can delete. Does anyone know a good site on Chinese that I can get Chinese music in flac ? looking for my dad


----------



## Danneq

decommo said:


> Great to know cygnus is better than Ting. Now it would be great comparing between Cygnus and Tomahawk..




I haven't heard any of them, but Ting seems to be more neutral and sometimes neutral can be less "fun" than a sound signature with more bass & treble (v shaped) or warmer mids. I seldom choose my Celsus Gramo One since they are a bit too neutral for their own good. But I wouldn't say that they are worse than more fun sounding earbuds. They work well for critical listening in a quiet environment since they are very detailed. Tomahawk or better/more expensive earbuds with a more engaging sound work in just about any situation...


----------



## lexus91

danneq said:


> I haven't heard any of them, but Ting seems to be more neutral and sometimes neutral can be less "fun" than a sound signature with more bass & treble (v shaped) or warmer mids. I seldom choose my Celsus Gramo One since they are a bit too neutral for their own good. But I wouldn't say that they are worse than more fun sounding earbuds. They work well for critical listening in a quiet environment since they are very detailed. Tomahawk or better/more expensive earbuds with a more engaging sound work in just about any situation...


 
 true on this. i was looking to buy the Ting. but a lot of people are saying that they are probably better in technicalities and tuned to be mo neutral - reference like. which discourage me from getting them and chose tomahawk instead. for me musicality and "fun" factors are more important since too neutral and clean will tire me for prolonged listening.


----------



## jant71

Indeed. All the way back to the Hisound Live and Living. A bit too neutral for their own good. And many are not tuned for the real world. Perhaps enough bass to sit around indoors fairly quiet. Once outside they just don't work well. Realize that you need to tune for the purpose of an earbud. Portability, small and light and easy to carry around means outside use. Too many neutral tuned and power hungry buds out there and not enough that you can commute with or take to the park for a walk or jog.
  
 Sounds like Ting is out. Cygnus already seemed to be a better choice. I also want to hear about the Cygnus signature vs. the Tomahawk signature.
  
 Geez, how many buds does Dark Horse have now? The E1, E2,E3, E4, G150, G300, G400. G150 says "direct push" from your mobile phone and is only $30 from them.


----------



## Danneq

Those too neutral earbuds can still be used at home if they are high end. Still, Garmo One responds well to EQ, and I usually boost lower frequencies when using them outside while I prefer as flat as possible when in a quiet environment. I prefered Live to Living, but have sold them both. Even Monk easily beat those two.

Dark Horse Audio on Ali express doesn't sell the E4 & E2 (I think) anymore. I asked them and got a reply saying that those models aren't sold any more. But it's strange that Easy earphone sells them... I'll try the three that Easy's selling, but not for perhaps 2 months. Hope they still are selling them by then...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

oopeteroo said:


> tomahawks on sale ? how much is it compare to the normal price ?
> 
> also I remember someone posted two links to a Chinese hi-fi site? anyone remember those? I'm looking for a Chinese head-fi for my dad as he only can read Chinese.....
> 
> also I don't know if it's allowed to ask, sorry if itsnt and mod can delete. Does anyone know a good site on Chinese that I can get Chinese music in flac ? looking for my dad


 
  Gekkan Shojou Nozaki Kun!
  
 That aside, you can check out erji.net, which is China's equivalent of Head-fi. course you maybe have to sign up to read posts. I think there is a set limit on how many threads can a non-member view per day. As for downloading chinese songs, I have no idea.


----------



## Frederick Wang

oopeteroo said:


> Does anyone know a good site on Chinese that I can get Chinese music in flac ? looking for my dad


 
  


audionewbi3 said:


> Gekkan Shojou Nozaki Kun!
> 
> As for downloading chinese songs, I have no idea.


 
  
 Try music.163.com, 320kbs mp3 for free


----------



## golov17

I want


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> I want


 
  
 You don't.
  
 It doesn't worth $100 and besides, the storage case looks wrong and could well be fake.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> You don't.
> 
> It doesn't worth $100 and besides, the storage case looks wrong and could well be fake.


price stops me, but .. 

Yes, I have a backup K319, but my white k317 have been lost or stolen, and I wanted to try this ..


----------



## Lionlian

I suspect that Creative Aurvana Air is a CM700 in disguise, and Audio-technica discontinue a CM700 too.
  
 and there is no more ANV3, I really wonder if PK1 shall satisfy me as ANV3 did?


----------



## jant71

I think you mean EC700 and not CM700.


----------



## Lionlian

jant71 said:


> I think you mean EC700 and not CM700.


 
  
 That it!


----------



## Danneq

jant71 said:


> I think you mean EC700 and not CM700.





jant71 said:


> I think you mean EC700 and not CM700.




But weren't they the same with the ear hooks as the only difference?


----------



## yacobx

http://www.head-fi.org/t/802230/shozy-cygnus-official-thread
  
 made a lil thread for people that wanna talk about the cygnus


----------



## leobigfield

Damn you guys, ordered the tomahawks! Hope it lives the hype!


----------



## Tarnum

Tomahawk is good in almost every aspect, you will hardly to find its weakness. It's an easy going earphone, not the best but enough for every type of music, it's kind of "plug and play" earbud.


----------



## Decommo

tarnum said:


> Tomahawk is good in almost every aspect, you will hardly to find its weakness. It's an easy going earphone, not the best but enough for every type of music, it's kind of "plug and play" earbud.


 
 Great to know.  I got general impression in terms of build quality and overall appearance and it would be great sound signature difference between Tomahawk and Cygnus. Does anyone listen both and can share their impression in terms of sound quality and signature?


----------



## Lionlian

which one is the most closer to TM7, ANV3 or BE7.
 If not I think I'm going to try a VE Monk 2.0 or pk1.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

tarnum said:


> Tomahawk is good in almost every aspect, you will hardly to find its weakness. It's an easy going earphone, not the best but enough for every type of music, it's kind of "plug and play" earbud.


 
  
 I could not agree more.  One thing I noticed with Tomahawk is how well it played through all my devices.  From my phone (Samsung S4), to the FiiO M3, then to my higher end DAC/Amps.  Always fun and detailed.
  
 ..


----------



## BloodyPenguin

*Update*
  
 I just finished my full review of the *Dark Horse G400*:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/dark-horse-g400/reviews/15536
  

  
  
 **Note - I was planning on comparing it to MusicMaker Ting, but the Ting seems to have wandered off to another state and I am not sure when or if it is coming back**
  
 --


----------



## Joy Boy

bloodypenguin said:


> *Update*
> 
> I just finished my full review of the *Dark Horse G400*:
> 
> ...




I noticed something, Is it true that the dark horse builder is same company that produce seahf? Because when i read the review, i think the sound sign is a little bit same like seahf series, especially seahf 300ohm.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

joy boy said:


> I noticed something, Is it true that the dark horse builder is same company that produce seahf? Because when i read the review, i think the sound sign is a little bit same like seahf series, especially seahf 300ohm.


 

 From what I have heard, the Dark Horse G400 is basically the Seahf 400.  But I never did read any reviews about how the Seahf sounds
 ..


----------



## Joy Boy

bloodypenguin said:


> From what I have heard, the Dark Horse G400 is basically the Seahf 400.  But I never did read any reviews about how the Seahf sounded.
> 
> ..




Seahf sound similar as you write for dark horse. I never try dark horse, but i've ever had seahf 32, 150, and 300ohm. When i read the review, suddenly i remember seahf sound. A bunch of bass and recess mid and small soundstage


----------



## AudioNewbi3

joy boy said:


> I noticed something, Is it true that the dark horse builder is same company that produce seahf? Because when i read the review, i think the sound sign is a little bit same like seahf series, especially seahf 300ohm.


 
  Yes, you are correct, SeaHf is the producer of the Darkhorse G400.
  
 Darkhorse G150, G320 are all in reality SeaHf earbuds. SeaHf is like an OEM of sorts, that or it is working with darkhorse to release a 400Ohm earbud.
  
 But basically, SeaHf=Darkhorse high impedance earbud.
  
 SeaHf is the producer, designer of the earbuds, and maybe licensed them to be sold by another party. 
  
 Edit: Taobao Link for G400
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.46.UmhhSJ&id=525116914319&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail
  
 Edit: Looks like they have updated the G400 and gave it the following:
         A&K 2.5mm Balance, Hifiman 3.5mm Balanced, 4PIN Balanced


----------



## AudioNewbi3

SeaHf officila Taobao Store
https://ibetterearphone.taobao.com/search.htm?spm=a1z10.1-c.0.0.OnuWzD&search=y


----------



## Joy Boy

audionewbi3 said:


> Yes, you are correct, SeaHf is the producer of the Darkhorse G400.
> 
> Darkhorse G150, G320 are all in reality SeaHf earbuds. SeaHf is like an OEM of sorts, that or it is working with darkhorse to release a 400Ohm earbud.
> 
> ...




Glad to know that. Now i think i'll pass. Already try 3 different series, and it's just not my type of sound. 

Anyone here ever try Boarseman and Fareal earbuds? I think it's pretty good. Fareal is the competitor of ve monk for its price to performance (yeah it cost around $5).
And for headbanger, boarseman mx98 is one of the best choice. A little bit cold sound with good detail & separation


----------



## golov17

Mx98s better than mx98?


----------



## mc0ne

mc0ne said:


> Thanks @ClieOS for the info on the Monk regarding your ranking!
> 
> Interesting, that there is obviously much more room for SQ improvement, which is nice to hear (=
> 
> @music4mhell will receive a pair of E100 too. Sofar got the impression that it should have more bass than the Monk, but will report back aswell


 
  
 Update: @ClieOS , @music4mhell and @ others
  
 Did a review in the Monk thread, comparing it to the Edifier H180 and the Mrice E100 earbells. ClieOS you said, you would position the Monks under The Good. The earbells are under The Great. It would be interesting to know where you would place the H180 then 
  
 Happy listening to all


----------



## Decommo

It must be just me.. I recently got Mprice E100 and found surprisingly good and feel that it competes with Monk head to head.. 
Monk = Bigger soundstage, analogue tasteful sound sig. 
E100 = Atreactive unique design, better clarity and bass. Fit can troublesome.. Fit just fine for me though with foam cover. 

Love both


----------



## Joy Boy

golov17 said:


> Mx98s better than mx98?




It would be hard to compare them because they have different sound sign.
While mx98 sounds cold and agressive, mx98s is a little bit warm and relaxing


----------



## golov17

joy boy said:


> It would be hard to compare them because they have different sound sign.
> While mx98 sounds cold and agressive, mx98s is a little bit warm and relaxing


i see, thanks


----------



## music4mhell

bloodypenguin said:


> joy boy said:
> 
> 
> > I noticed something, Is it true that the dark horse builder is same company that produce seahf? Because when i read the review, i think the sound sign is a little bit same like seahf series, especially seahf 300ohm.
> ...


 
 Any update on Rose Mojito ?
 I am very much interested  so need ur early impressions..


----------



## BloodyPenguin

music4mhell said:


> Any update on Rose Mojito ?
> I am very much interested  so need ur early impressions..




Still waiting for them to arrive. They left China 10 days ago, so the should hopefully be to me any day now.

I am super curious about them as well.

I should also have my replacement MusicMaker Ting in the next two days as well.

--


----------



## goldenSHK

mc0ne said:


> Update: @ClieOS , @music4mhell and @ others
> 
> Did a review in the Monk thread, comparing it to the Edifier H180 and the Mrice E100 earbells. ClieOS you said, you would position the Monks under The Good. The earbells are under The Great. It would be interesting to know where you would place the H180 then
> 
> Happy listening to all


 
 He said he'd put the Monks under "good"? Hmm that's disappointing I guess. I thought they are way better than the earbuds in that category hands down.


----------



## music4mhell

bloodypenguin said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Any update on Rose Mojito ?
> ...


 
 I got my Ting, the tomahawk is on the way. Also the Dark horse G400.


----------



## golov17

goldenshk said:


> He said he'd put the Monks under "good"? Hmm that's disappointing I guess. I thought they are way better than the earbuds in that category hands down.


all IMHO, man..


----------



## haiku

I judge the quality of a head - or earphone by looking at my choice each day, and make my conclusion after a month or two. I also give each new headphone at least 50 hours of burn in time. It´s beyond me how some folks think they can judge any headphone right out of the box. They don´t do the gear much justice imo.


----------



## ryanjsoo

Just got my Fiio EM3`s in the mail, initial impressions are strong when running them through my Fiio Q1. They have deep bass response for an earbud and smooth mids with good body, they sound much better sound than my Apple Earpods and so far I like them about as much as the renowned Baldoor e100, the soundstage is excellent. Typical of Fiio, they have a very nice build for the price but are a bit large (probably due to the damping system), the matte housings with gloss accents do look striking though. The cabling is thick and the right angle jack is great, they should hold up well. I would prefer if they came with doughnut foams though, or at least 1 pair of the 3. Anyway that`s a brief impression, look forwards to the full review, these might become a new budget staple.


----------



## Decommo

Thank you for sharing impression. I was interested in this earbud but after reading @BloodyPenguin 's initial impression was okay at the best so hold off purchasing it. Do you mind asking how do you compare with VE Monk and e100?


----------



## chompy

mc0ne said:


> Update: @ClieOS
> , @music4mhell
> and @ others
> 
> ...


 

You cannot say those things on this forum where Monks are almost divinities 

I also preferred H180 to Monks, bass is so much better... When people do reviews, they should say which kind of sound do they prefer, as Monks been so mid centric can be glorious for those who like this sound signature, but if you like V shaped sound, then they are just boring. 

All that said, H180 aren't the perfect buds for me as they treble roll off is too much for me and right now I'm using H185 with some equallizing until I find something better...


----------



## ryanjsoo

decommo said:


> Thank you for sharing impression. I was interested in this earbud but after reading @BloodyPenguin 's initial impression was okay at the best so hold off purchasing it. Do you mind asking how do you compare with VE Monk and e100?


 
  
 I share pretty much the same impressions as BloodyPenguin, I don`t think they`re that bad but as soon as I put them in they did sound dull and muddy. This is because they have quite a warm midrange and can sound veiled compared to the bright, clarity orientated Baldoor E100.
  
 They have their own merits, but I wouldn`t listen to them with foams since they are already very rich sounding. Bass is slightly less textured than the e100, whilst the midrange is the good with a well sculpted body that is balanced with the bass, organic, smooth and impressively detailed if veiled. The e100`s are more neutral and have more clarity. Highs are neutral and carry good amounts of information, they`re not as sparkly or excited as the e100`s but are superior quality wise, the e100`s are grainy and thin. The soundstage and imaging are very good. They take some time getting used to and benefit from an amp. They are very full sounding, on the line of congestion for me, but they tread it carefully. Sorry, haven`t heard the Monks so I can`t comment on them. 
  
 Fiio needs to tune the EM3`s a bit more, tone down the mid/upper-bass and reduce the lower mids very slightly to add more midrange clarity and it`ll be a gem. Still as they are, they`re a solid performer for $10 which is about the same as the e100`s or Monks after shipping. They will be good for those looking for a more relaxed listen.


----------



## Decommo

ryanjsoo said:


> decommo said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you for sharing impression. I was interested in this earbud but after reading @BloodyPenguin 's initial impression was okay at the best so hold off purchasing it. Do you mind asking how do you compare with VE Monk and e100?
> ...


 
  
 Thank you so much for explaining further. Yes, I agree 100% on your impression of e100. I also found that it is bright, clarity oriented with tight bass. Love to hear your impression when you get hands on Monk.  And I will pass EM3 until newer improved version comes out.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Just wanted to post a heads-up,
  
 The gloriously soft cable on my seahf is starting to turn itself green. Still gloriously soft though.


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Just wanted to post a heads-up,
> 
> The gloriously soft cable on my seahf is starting to turn itself green. Still gloriously soft though.


green lines (from FB)


----------



## Danneq

Penon audio has started to sell Tomahawk!


----------



## Joy Boy

golov17 said:


> green lines (from FB)




Yeah, some buds like seahf, cygnus, ve zen, sidy kt100 turn green after several months (or week?). My ve zen and seahf 150ohm experience it too. But fortunately still sounds great. No change i could hear before and after oxidation. So, don't worry about it


----------



## golov17

joy boy said:


> Yeah, some buds like seahf, cygnus, ve zen, sidy kt100 turn green after several months (or week?). My ve zen and seahf 150ohm experience it too. But fortunately still sounds great. No change i could hear before and after oxidation. So, don't worry about it


good news


----------



## leobigfield

I had the e100 earbells right after the initial hype and was not impressed by them. They were good, but not worth the effort to me. Sold with no regrets. Now the monks are different story. Bought two, wanna buy more just to have for spare or gift. 

Thinking on buying these just for the hooks:

2016 New Original Rock Mucu Stereo Earphone Headphones Headset 3.5mm In Ear Earphone With Mic For IPhone Samsung Free Shipping
http://s.aliexpress.com/VZvE3A7R
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## BloodyPenguin

leobigfield said:


> Thinking on buying these just for the hooks:
> 
> 2016 New Original Rock Mucu Stereo Earphone Headphones Headset 3.5mm In Ear Earphone With Mic For IPhone Samsung Free Shipping
> http://s.aliexpress.com/VZvE3A7R
> (from AliExpress Android)


 
  
 Interesting.  It seems to combine the EarHoox and Yurbuds designs into one.  Most definitely worth checking out.  
  
 Too bad you can not just buy the hooks on their own though.
  
 --


----------



## klove4252

leobigfield said:


> I had the e100 earbells right after the initial hype and was not impressed by them. They were good, but not worth the effort to me. Sold with no regrets. Now the monks are different story. Bought two, wanna buy more just to have for spare or gift.
> 
> Thinking on buying these just for the hooks:
> 
> ...


 
 I agree about the e100. I just couldn't enjoy the sound. I feel the same way about the kc08. I really want to like them, but they just do it for me. The monks are worth the hype though to me. They sound incredible regardless of price.


----------



## golov17




----------



## kiler

Got these today, courtesy of the review program from FiiO. Can't add much yet but they seem to have a nice warm sound to them, will see if they open up with time.


----------



## vapman

kiler said:


> Got these today, courtesy of the review program from FiiO. Can't add much yet but they seem to have a nice warm sound to them, will see if they open up with time.


 

 How do you get set up on the review program? I'd absolutely love to try a pair to review! Having spent around $200 on earbuds this month and contemplating adding on the Shozy this month too still I can't just buy them all...


----------



## kiler

They had a thread up in here  Go look at my post history I'm sure you can find it ^^


----------



## vapman

leobigfield said:


> I had the e100 earbells right after the initial hype and was not impressed by them. They were good, but not worth the effort to me. Sold with no regrets. Now the monks are different story. Bought two, wanna buy more just to have for spare or gift.
> 
> Thinking on buying these just for the hooks:
> 
> ...




I think the earbell are pretty underwhelming unless you use VERY powerful gear (mojo, vintage amp, cayin c5) - I actually use my earbell in a recording studio with gear that expects you have these massive 600ohm cans 

E100 can be very good but powerful amp is a must!!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Replacement *MusicMaker Ting* just arrived.  Sounds a bit better than I remember the first version I received.
  
  
 [Quick Cellphone Picture of it Burning In]
  

  
 --


----------



## golov17

I like first Shozy DIY Earbuds


----------



## RedJohn456

Got a review FiiO Em3 as well, always fun unboxing new gear!
  


 What a time to be an earbud fan!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

joy boy said:


> Yeah, some buds like seahf, cygnus, ve zen, sidy kt100 turn green after several months (or week?). My ve zen and seahf 150ohm experience it too. But fortunately still sounds great. No change i could hear before and after oxidation. So, don't worry about it


 
 good news indeed


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> Replacement *MusicMaker Ting* just arrived.  Sounds a bit better than I remember the first version I received.
> 
> 
> [Quick Cellphone Picture of it Burning In]
> ...


 
 Now for the long awaited comparison hahaha


----------



## music4mhell

audionewbi3 said:


> bloodypenguin said:
> 
> 
> > Replacement *MusicMaker Ting* just arrived.  Sounds a bit better than I remember the first version I received.
> ...


 
 Everything is awesome in TIng,
  
 except it has less bass, means it's neutral bass, not boomy, if u like bass at low volume also, you will miss it, else in soundstage 10/10, mid 10/10, high 10/10, tonality 10/10


----------



## AudioNewbi3

music4mhell said:


> Everything is awesome in TIng,
> 
> except it has less bass, means it's neutral bass, not boomy, if u like bass at low volume also, you will miss it, else in soundstage 10/10, mid 10/10, high 10/10, tonality 10/10


 
 Wow, you're making me kinda regret purchasing the Cygnus hahaha


----------



## music4mhell

audionewbi3 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Everything is awesome in TIng,
> ...


 
 It's nothing like that, i use cygnus and Ting both. It depends upon the song and the mood.
 Some times you listen at low volume, that time cygnus is more fun, but when you listen at higher volume Ting is more fun.
  
 My tomahawk is on the way, let see how it performs.


----------



## lexus91

Please do comparison between tomahawk and ting once you get em. Considering to get ting...


music4mhell said:


> It's nothing like that, i use cygnus and Ting both. It depends upon the song and the mood.
> Some times you listen at low volume, that time cygnus is more fun, but when you listen at higher volume Ting is more fun.
> 
> My tomahawk is on the way, let see how it performs.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> Now for the long awaited comparison hahaha


 
  
 Not too long, I'm pretty good about getting my earbud reviews up lately.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 My Ting Review is about 40% done.. 
  
  


music4mhell said:


> Everything is awesome in Ting,
> 
> except it has less bass, means it's neutral bass, not boomy, if u like bass at low volume also, you will miss it, else in soundstage 10/10, mid 10/10, high 10/10, tonality 10/10


 
  
 I agree 100%.  VERY good earbud.  Quite engaging with a very neutral bass production.
  
  


audionewbi3 said:


> Wow, you're making me kinda regret purchasing the Cygnus hahaha


 
  
 Never regret an earbud purchase!  I'd love to have a Cygnus and a Ting.  The more, the merrier. 
  
 --


----------



## golov17

Zen2.0 with BGVP "C" cable very nice for female vocal! For my ears


----------



## BloodyPenguin

lexus91 said:


> Please do comparison between tomahawk and ting once you get em. Considering to get ting...


 
  
 I can do a quick sound comparison for you. 
  
  
 [This does not represent quality, just signature]
 ~~~ 1-10 (10 Being the Most Prominent) ~~~
  
*Tomahawk*: [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]
 Lows - 6 / Mids - 8 / Highs - 6 / Soundstage - 8 / [/color]
  
*Ting*:
 Lows - 4 / Mids - 7 / Highs - 7 / Soundstage - 8
  
  
 And because someone is going to ask....
  
 Monk[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]: [/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]Lows - 5 / Mids - 6 / Highs - 6 / Soundstage - 6[/color]
  
 --
  
 Clarity wise the Tomahawk and Ting are very close, with the ever so slightest edge going to the Ting.
  
 The Monk, while good can not complete with the MusicMaker earbuds, but it is not meant to.  For that, I would need to get my hands on the Asura 2.0.
  
 ..


----------



## lexus91

bloodypenguin said:


> I can do a quick sound comparison for you.
> 
> 
> [This does not represent quality, just signature]
> ...




Its quantity wise not quality? So meaning even if tomahawk has more bass doesnt necessarily ting has inferior bass quality?

Can we say that ting is "reference neutral" while tomahawk is more "fun" tuned?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

lexus91 said:


> Its quantity wise not quality? So meaning even if tomahawk has more bass doesnt necessarily ting has inferior bass quality?
> 
> Can we say that ting is "reference neutral" while tomahawk is more "fun" tuned?


 

 EXACTLY!  Spot on. 
  
 That is just my ratings of sound signature, not quality.
  
 Quality wise, the Ting and Tomahawk are both fantastic.  The Tomahawk just has a "fun" sound while the Ting is closer to neutral, with quality bass, just not a lot of it. 

 Both MusicMaker earbuds are a must have.  Both are just wonderful.
  
 --


----------



## lexus91

bloodypenguin said:


> EXACTLY!  Spot on.
> 
> That is just my ratings of sound signature, not quality.
> 
> ...



Buying ting is not exactly an upgrade from tomahawk then? More of buying different flavor of earbuds?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> Zen2.0 with BGVP "C" cable very nice for female vocal! For my ears


 
  
 May I kindly know how do you line out your Newsmy? If I am not mistaken, the Newsmy only has H/O correct?

 Are you double amping? i.e. setting volume to 100% on DAP and then Headphone out to amp, and adjusting volume on amp?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

music4mhell said:


> It's nothing like that, i use cygnus and Ting both. It depends upon the song and the mood.
> Some times you listen at low volume, that time cygnus is more fun, but when you listen at higher volume Ting is more fun.
> 
> My tomahawk is on the way, let see how it performs.


 
  
 Ah I see I see.... I mainly listen at lower volumes, so we'll see how it goes.


bloodypenguin said:


> I can do a quick sound comparison for you.
> 
> 
> [This does not represent quality, just signature]
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the comparison mate!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Currently here are some of the comparison I am interested in:

 Cygnus vs Ting
 Ting vs Tomahawk
 Tomahawk vs Cygnus
 G400 vs Cygnus, Ting, Tomahawks

 Hahaha basically a battle royal of buds!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

lexus91 said:


> Buying ting is not exactly an upgrade from tomahawk then? More of buying different flavor of earbuds?


 
  
 When talking about the the Ting and Tomahawk, no, I would never use the word upgrade.  I would used "different flavor" to describe them as you say.
  
 For Monitor/Analytical listening I would reach for the Ting.
  
 For Fun/Exciting sound, I would reach for the Tomahawk.
  
 --


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> Currently here are some of the comparison I am interested in:
> 
> Cygnus vs Ting
> Ting vs Tomahawk
> ...


 
  
 I would suggest taking the G400 off that list.  While it is not a bad earbud, it is unfortunately not anything special.
  
 I would be most interested to hear the Cygnus vs Ting.
  
 ..


----------



## Saoshyant

I'm curious about the Rose Mojito myself, especially considering it's on sale for the Aliexpress anniversary


----------



## BloodyPenguin

saoshyant said:


> I'm curious about the Rose Mojito myself, especially considering it's on sale for the Aliexpress anniversary


 
  
 Yes, I am REALLY very curious about it as well.  The mean mailman will not drop them off.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They really should be to me very soon I would think.  I will post up impressions as quick as I can when they get to me.
  
 --


----------



## Saoshyant

Thank you sir. If you can get initial impressions up by the anniversary sale, I might bite depending on how they sound. Then again, I might try out the new Audeze instead.


----------



## music4mhell

bloodypenguin said:


> audionewbi3 said:
> 
> 
> > Currently here are some of the comparison I am interested in:
> ...


 
 It means i got some homework to do this week


----------



## AudioNewbi3

music4mhell said:


> It means i got some homework to do this week


 
 Thanks a lot for the effort mate !


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> May I kindly know how do you line out your Newsmy? If I am not mistaken, the Newsmy only has H/O correct?
> 
> 
> Are you double amping? i.e. setting volume to 100% on DAP and then Headphone out to amp, and adjusting volume on amp?


 35-37 on Newsmy better, IMHO


----------



## chompy

bloodypenguin said:


> I can do a quick sound comparison for you.
> 
> 
> [This does not represent quality, just signature]
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for you quick comparation, then with these numbers in mind, should I understand that Tomahack although fun sounding is still a mid centric earbud (similar to what most say about Monks and their fun sound)? Is there any quality new earbud with a sound signature similar to this: [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]Lows - 8 / Mids - 6 / Highs - 8?[/color]
  
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]It seems that neither Tomahack, nor Ting, nor Cygnus, nor G400 meet my needs... Maybe Ostry KC08 or DK-Pu/JIN?[/color]
  
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]Thanks[/color]


----------



## oopeteroo

is the ting worth double the price of hawk?


----------



## golov17

chompy said:


> Thanks for you quick comparation, then with these numbers in mind, should I understand that Tomahack although fun sounding is still a mid centric earbud (similar to what most say about Monks and their fun sound)? Is there any quality new earbud with a sound signature similar to this:Lows - 8 / Mids - 6 / Highs - 8?
> 
> It seems that neither Tomahack, nor Ting, nor Cygnus, nor G400 meet my needs... Maybe Ostry KC08 or DK-Pu/JIN?
> 
> Thanks


zen1.0?


----------



## Danneq

chompy said:


> Thanks for you quick comparation, then with these numbers in mind, should I understand that Tomahack although fun sounding is still a mid centric earbud (similar to what most say about Monks and their fun sound)? Is there any quality new earbud with a sound signature similar to this: [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]Lows - 8 / Mids - 6 / Highs - 8?[/color]
> 
> [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]It seems that neither Tomahack, nor Ting, nor Cygnus, nor G400 meet my needs... Maybe Ostry KC08 or DK-Pu/JIN?[/color]
> 
> [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]Thanks[/color]


 


 DK-Jin has got plenty of bass & treble, but a very intimate sound with a narrow soundstage (with okay depth).

 Also, I think that Tomahawk isn't mid centric. It has got a balanced sound, but the mids are really nice. Asura 2.0 is a good example of a mid centric earbud.

  


golov17 said:


> zen1.0?


 

 I think that Zen 1 is quite similar to Monk, but much much better in just about everything. I like it better than Tomahawk, but think they are quite similar.

 DK-Jin has got more bass & upper mids/treble than it has got (lower) mids. At least it sounded like that to my ears...


----------



## supplehope

Talking about the Ostry KC08, after hearing them with at least 100 hours of burn in (for the specific ones), here's my honest impressions about them as a total earbuds noob:

Fit: Used both the standard and the "fancy" versions of foams. Both fit fine for my picky ears and the "fancy" foam does sound less bright and more engaging yet clear, in my experience. Maybe Ostry can sell packs of the "fancy" foams on Taobao somehow? Sticking with the standard foams myself for now, anyways.

Gears used: Fiio X1 --> Ibasso D12, Sony ZX1.
Pretty easy to drive, but as someone who listen to loud music as well, the ZX1 (I know its problems) is not enough even at max volume. I recommend pairing the KC08 with a setup that is slightly towards the warm side if you really want the KC08 to really show what they are capable of.

Bass: Not the best I have heard, but at least the mids and the lows are presented pretty nicely. Personally, it could have extended much more, but it is pretty fun otherwise, in my opinion.

Mids: From what I have read about earbuds like VE Monk, I can see why the KC08 are not as popular as I honestly think they should be. For me, the mids of these are more of slightly bright and reference type rather than the typical warm and engaging type that most would have enjoyed, unfortunately. I personally like the mids of the KC08 though, as they perform extremely well with complex music like metal, in my opinion. Despite whatever I actually said about the mids, the vocals are very engaging though, for me at least.

High: Beautiful and well-extended for my preferences, but how good can they sound also depends on the recordings as well, in my opinion. Pay attention, cymbals lovers.

Soundstage: For me and as someone who doesn't really care about soundstage and imaging on in-ears, they are good enough. From what I have read though, I am sure there are some who think that they could have extended as earbuds though.

Overall, the KC08 somehow reminded me of the Stax SR009 (total exaggeration, but just something I can refer to) with much dryer mids and more fun but still not-bleeded bass while have a similar presentation otherwise. I personally believe that these will sound better with more listening. For those who like a pair of earbuds that does most genres just well, these will be it. Unfortunately, stay away if you ever like engaging mids and incredible soundstage and imaging, even as a big Ostry fan myself, I admit.

Back to the music and I hope that my brief impressions of the KC08 helped a little for those who wants to get a pair of them.

PS: The KC08 are the standard, or the Mainland version as some of you prefered.


----------



## chompy

golov17 said:


> zen1.0?


 
  


danneq said:


> DK-Jin has got plenty of bass & treble, but a very intimate sound with a narrow soundstage (with okay depth).
> 
> Also, I think that Tomahawk isn't mid centric. It has got a balanced sound, but the mids are really nice. Asura 2.0 is a good example of a mid centric earbud.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks both for your opinions, my main problem with VE earbuds (at least with Monks) is that even with foams they hurt my ears, so after a shot time using them I cannot bear them and then there's the problem to fins now a Zen v1. In the other hand DK-Jin got my interest since I read Danneq impressions but I decided to wait until some reviews for all these earbuds released lately were made. Unfortunately everything I've read so far seem to go away from my preferences, KC08 seemed to be my last option, but after supplehope review (thanks!!) it seems to have the highs I'm after, but their bass would not fill my needs so it seems that I'll have to start looking seriously to DK-Jin.


----------



## Joy Boy

bloodypenguin said:


> When talking about the the Ting and Tomahawk, no, I would never use the word upgrade.  I would used "different flavor" to describe them as you say.
> 
> For Monitor/Analytical listening I would reach for the Ting.
> 
> ...




Then tomawahk & ting are more like zen v.1 & v.2. Not an upgrade ver, but a total different sound.
I wanna ask something, is it worth to have Ting on its price? (Double tomahawk)
And if i already have tomahawk, is it necessary to have Ting too? Or is it better if I used the money for another earbud?


----------



## lexus91

joy boy said:


> Then tomawahk & ting are more like zen v.1 & v.2. Not an upgrade ver, but a total different sound.
> I wanna ask something, is it worth to have Ting on its price? (Double tomahawk)
> And if i already have tomahawk, is it necessary to have Ting too? Or is it better if I used the money for another earbud?




I think it depends on what you are looking for. For me personally i won't be buying ting in the near forseeable future. I prefer something more fun and engaging. I would eventualy buy them but not on my priority list.



chompy said:


> Thanks both for your opinions, my main problem with VE earbuds (at least with Monks) is that even with foams they hurt my ears, so after a shot time using them I cannot bear them and then there's the problem to fins now a Zen v1. In the other hand DK-Jin got my interest since I read Danneq impressions but I decided to wait until some reviews for all these earbuds released lately were made. Unfortunately everything I've read so far seem to go away from my preferences, KC08 seemed to be my last option, but after supplehope review (thanks!!) it seems to have the highs I'm after, but their bass would not fill my needs so it seems that I'll have to start looking seriously to DK-Jin.




I also think ve zen 1 could he what you are lookinh for..


----------



## Saoshyant

I have to admit, if given a chance to buy the Zen 1, I'd probably take it myself.  Too bad I came in too late to pick one up.  Oh well, there will always be another earbud at some point!


----------



## Joy Boy

lexus91 i agree. Can you give me some advice for another great buds? I prefer something that suitable for metal genre. Till now I prefer my boarseman mx98 and ve zen v1 for that


----------



## klove4252

saoshyant said:


> I have to admit, if given a chance to buy the Zen 1, I'd probably take it myself.  Too bad I came in too late to pick one up.  Oh well, there will always be another earbud at some point!


 
 I'm in the same boat as you. I wish I could grab the Zen 1. There are so many great earbuds out right now though at all different price points. I'm starting to enjoy my Gramo One more and more. They are not the best in terms of value, but after listening to them with a few different sources, I really like how they pair with the Aune M2 Pro. I don't know if Zen and the Gramo One are very similar, but I guess they fall into the same "high-end" earbud category.


----------



## lexus91

joy boy said:


> lexus91 i agree. Can you give me some advice for another great buds? I prefer something that suitable for metal genre. Till now I prefer my boarseman mx98 and ve zen v1 for that




I dont listen to metal. But recently i frequently listen to tomahawk.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

danneq said:


> Also, I think that Tomahawk isn't mid centric. It has got a balanced sound, but the mids are really nice. Asura 2.0 is a good example of a mid centric earbud.


 

 I'd love to see a full review of the Tomahawk by you.  Though it seems you have not done one in about 5 years.
  
 Maybe it is the superb clarity that makes the mids seem forward to me.  All I know is they sound fantastic.
  
 ..


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> 35-37 on Newsmy better, IMHO


 
 Thank-you!


----------



## leobigfield

Tomahawk on sale at Easy earphones! $36! Sad I've bought them at $40 a couple of days ago..

2015 Go Pro MrZ Tomahawk MusicMaker Z In Ear Earbuds In Ear Earphone Alloy Tune Earbuds Such as Armature Earphone MX985
http://s.aliexpress.com/ArAj2yyY
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## golov17

leobigfield said:


> Tomahawk on sale at Easy earphones! $36! Sad I've bought them at $40 a couple of days ago..
> 
> 2015 Go Pro MrZ Tomahawk MusicMaker Z In Ear Earbuds In Ear Earphone Alloy Tune Earbuds Such as Armature Earphone MX985
> http://s.aliexpress.com/ArAj2yyY
> (from AliExpress Android)


woow, black cable soft, guys?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> woow, black cable soft, guys?


 
 Sorry I cannot help you with that, I have the silver version.


----------



## oopeteroo

it says 55 on the page ?


----------



## clee290

oopeteroo said:


> it says 55 on the page ?


 

 You have to buy from their mobile app.


----------



## Saoshyant

Hmm, Rose Mojito will be below $200 when the sale starts.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

saoshyant said:


> Hmm, Rose Mojito will be below $200 when the sale starts.


 
  
 I hope to have mine before then (03/29), to hopefully give my quick impressions.
  
 ..


----------



## Saoshyant

Worst comes to worst, it's only a minor savings. I'll of course have to find a balanced cable if the Mojito has a wonderful sound to it, so more money will be spent either way.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Okay ladies and gents, I have a question to ask regarding the following earbuds. 

 Have anyone heard of these before?

 Hifikiwi H1 ( Apparently the driver of this earbud is designed/produced by Fostex of Japan)
https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5-b.w4011-13534329969.67.zss69Y&id=41899638364&rn=5d5581ef6004ea6f3a6093ee6f9120ed&abbucket=13

 Boarseman MX98 (Senn MX Hommage?)
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.1-c.w8593808-4115753015.14.cbLjtz&id=520345602957
  
 Boarseman MX98s (Senn MX Hommage? 2x more expensive than MX98)
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.1-c.w8593808-4115753015.23.cbLjtz&id=43252041466
  
 Sunrise Feeling AS-2 (Titanium coated diaphragm)
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.4.0BFRzn&id=14159175554&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail 
  
  
 Any feedback on the above is very much welcomed, especially for the Sunrise Feeling AS-2 or Hifikiwi H1.

 Thank-you


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> Okay ladies and gents, I have a question to ask regarding the following earbuds.
> 
> Have anyone heard of these before?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have the Sunrise Feeling AS-2.  Good overall balanced sound, slightly smaller soundstage and has a microphone.
  
 I don't listen to it much, I've had it on sale here a few times with no takers.
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

Feeling2 dryer for my taste, could not fall in love with them. Although it tried, lol. For metal fans, I think it will be good, though


----------



## Joy Boy

audionewbi3 said:


> Okay ladies and gents, I have a question to ask regarding the following earbuds.
> 
> 
> Have anyone heard of these before?
> ...




I've had 3 of them. 
1. As feeling-2: a little bit dry, good detail but lack of bass. Sounds artificial with its titanium diaphraghm driver

2. Mx98: cold, good detail & clarity. Wide soundstage, very good separation. Best for metal genre. In fact, it's on my Top 5 bud, together with zen & tomahawk.

3. Mx98s: has warmer soundstage than mx98. It's said to be the flagship of boarseman series and tuned as like senn mx985, but i think it's just a gimmick. It produce good sound, feels so relaxing. Mid centric (maybe), thick vocal. Less agressive for metal/progressive song.

Never try hifikiwi


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> I have the Sunrise Feeling AS-2.  Good overall balanced sound, slightly smaller soundstage and has a microphone.
> 
> I don't listen to it much, I've had it on sale here a few times with no takers.
> 
> ..


 
 Can you kindly compare them to the Tomahawks? How well do they stack up?

 Thank-you


golov17 said:


> Feeling2 dryer for my taste, could not fall in love with them. Although it tried, lol. For metal fans, I think it will be good, though


 
  
 Hmm, are they good for vocals?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

joy boy said:


> I've had 3 of them.
> 1. As feeling-2: a little bit dry, good detail but lack of bass. Sounds artificial with its dynamic driver
> 
> 2. Mx98: cold, good detail & clarity. Wide soundstage, very good separation. Best for metal genre. In fact, it's on my Top 5 bud, together with zen & tomahawk.
> ...


 
  
 Are the AS and MX98 good for vocals?


----------



## golov17

No, no. For vocal good Shozy DIY, IMHO


----------



## Joy Boy

audionewbi3 said:


> Are the AS and MX98 good for vocals?




They're not best for vocal. But out of 3 of them, mx98s has best vocal. 
As v tomahawk: tomahawk far more better in all aspect, including vocal.
And if you're not a headbanger, don't bother to try mx98


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Playing around on Aliexpress.  Found these for a $1.48 (or $1.26 on 03/29).
  
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/MX500-In-ear-Headset-Earphone-Heavy-bass-Music-Wired-Headphone-with-volume-adjustment-for-MP3-Cellphone/32498425938.html

 Look JUST like the Suvov S20.  Think I will have to order a pair just to check them out.
  
  
 Nevermind, @golov17 says it is not such a good idea.
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> Playing around on Aliexpress.  Found these for a $1.48 (or $1.26 on 03/29).
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/MX500-In-ear-Headset-Earphone-Heavy-bass-Music-Wired-Headphone-with-volume-adjustment-for-MP3-Cellphone/32498425938.html
> 
> ...


Once, I tried .. and they all went in the trash, lol. Although, I wish you to be more successful than I


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> Once, I tried .. and they all went in the trash, lol. Although, I wish you to be more successful than I


 
  
 Ha!  Nevermind then!  Thanks for the heads up!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 --


----------



## golov17

It is necessary to ask the sellers on Aliexpress, added to its range Suvov, Shozy DIY and Cogoo, and Boarseman mx98s


----------



## golov17

Wow, again on sale!


----------



## Saoshyant

It's awfully temping golov17 but considering I already have 2 wonderful portable amps... I'm not sure I can convince myself to get it


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> No, no. For vocal good Shozy DIY, IMHO


 
  
 Hmm, alright, Thanks for the info mate!


joy boy said:


> They're not best for vocal. But out of 3 of them, mx98s has best vocal.
> As v tomahawk: tomahawk far more better in all aspect, including vocal.
> And if you're not a headbanger, don't bother to try mx98


 
  
 So meaning the Tomahawks will outperform all 3 of the buds?


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> It's awfully temping golov17 but considering I already have 2 wonderful portable amps... I'm not sure I can convince myself to get it


Well, let it be for those who are looking for first compact amplifier with two outputs "zero" and "plus 100 Ohm", also works 80 hours on a single charge, and with a removable battery Samsung mobile phone


----------



## Danneq

Wow! A lot happening on this thread while I'm away!

About me doing reviews, I've sort of become too lazy to take the time to write 'em. 
But I'm happy to share my impressions.

About midcentric earbuds, I find Yuin PK2 & 3 and even more so Sunrise AS-Feeling or Asura 2 to be midcentric. Lows and highs give way to mids in a way that it doesn't on Tomahawk. Tomahawk keeps a good balance between all frequencies even if mids are sweet sounding and therefor come slightly in focus.

About Gramo One vs Zen 1, they are not very similar. Both have great detail but Zen 1 has got a more full sound while Gramo One is more analytical. Tomahawk works for any genre so you should try that one.

Also, Easy earphone has got Ting on sale for $77 on the Aliexpress app.

I think that's all for now...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> Wow! A lot happening on this thread while I'm away!
> 
> About me doing reviews, I've sort of become too lazy to take the time to write 'em.
> But I'm happy to share my impressions.
> ...


 
 Is your Sunrise AS Feeling I or II?


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> Is your Sunrise AS Feeling I or II?




I sold them over 1 year ago but think it was II...


----------



## yacobx

Man, Im loving the Cygnus


----------



## jant71

saoshyant said:


> Hmm, Rose Mojito will be below $200 when the sale starts.


 

 Wish it was offered w/o cables. Wonder what they would charge then?


----------



## yacobx

So I'm getting over a cold right now so my hearing is not perfect but what i can tell you is the Zen2.0 is still better than Cygnus. However, the Cygnus is better that Asura 2.0 IMHO. The one thing i really love right now about the Cygnus is that smaller housing unit that it uses vs VE mx400 housing. The fit is amazing and it is the prettiest of all the buds I own(until the cable turns green lol)


----------



## golov17

yacobx said:


> So I'm getting over a cold right now so my hearing is not perfect but what i can tell you is the Zen2.0 is still better than Cygnus. However, the Cygnus is better that Asura 2.0 IMHO. The one thing i really love right now about the Cygnus is that smaller housing unit that it uses vs VE mx400 housing. The fit is amazing and it is the prettiest of all the buds I own(until the cable turns green lol)


nice to know


----------



## yacobx

golov17 said:


> yacobx said:
> 
> 
> > So I'm getting over a cold right now so my hearing is not perfect but what i can tell you is the Zen2.0 is still better than Cygnus. However, the Cygnus is better that Asura 2.0 IMHO. The one thing i really love right now about the Cygnus is that smaller housing unit that it uses vs VE mx400 housing. The fit is amazing and it is the prettiest of all the buds I own(until the cable turns green lol)
> ...


 

 BTW it does not have like what one head fi er called "sub bass" the cut off is similar to the asura...... I would say id does have more presence around the 100hZ and up mark with makes it bassy... but sorry... no sub bass as in the 20-30hz stuff.


----------



## yacobx

yacobx said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > yacobx said:
> ...


 

 You know what. Im gonna say the Asura and Cygnus are more of a tie. lol. Asura has better separation and soundstage but I listen to a lot of electronic music and the cygnus handles that stuff better than Asura.


----------



## Joy Boy

audionewbi3 said:


> Hmm, alright, Thanks for the info mate!
> 
> So meaning the Tomahawks will outperform all 3 of the buds?




Definitely. Tomahawk is a very great earbud


----------



## AudioNewbi3

@BloodyPenguin how does Earbud Thailand's BOE stack up against the Tomahawks?

 Thank-you


----------



## jrazmar

what's the final take on Tomahawk vs Ting? I fell off the bait and bought the Tomahawk. Still on its way though. now I'm curious why the Ting is more expensive than the TH. Anyone has thoughts on this so far?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> @BloodyPenguin how does Earbud Thailand's BOE stack up against the Tomahawks?
> 
> Thank-you


 
  
 The BOE has a relaxed, yet highly detailed sound, that is closer to neutral than the Tomahawk.  The Tomahawk in comparison is more forward with a touch more sub-bass.
  
 Both are wonderful earbuds, but with different sound signatures.  I'm enjoying listening to the two against each other.
  
  


jrazmar said:


> what's the final take on Tomahawk vs Ting? I fell off the bait and bought the Tomahawk. Still on its way though. now I'm curious why the Ting is more expensive than the TH. Anyone has thoughts on this so far?


 
  
 I'm currently working on that.
  
 Testing as much as I can right now.  After lots of burn in, I find the Tomahawk to be a bit more forward, just like against the BOE.
 The Ting is still a tad forward as well.  Both MusicMaker earbuds have a fantastic clarity.  In your face with every note.
  
 The Tomahawk is the better value.  Little more bass and smoother highs, a very fun signature.
 The Ting is the King of the MusicMaker earbuds, very revealing and honest.  Very high quality sound.
  
 You really can't go wrong with purchasing either one.
  

  
 --


----------



## ymelon111

Does anyone here who has the Monk have any interest in the Fiio EM3? I've just ordered the Fiio EM3 off of amazon, can't wait for them to arrive.
 My only other pair of earbuds are the BlueEverBlue 328R which I've been using for a little over a year now. I may do my best to compare the two but I am mostly curious about a comparison to the Monk.
  
 The prices of these 3 earbuds are relatively different but since they are all in the lower range and I do not have the Monk I thought I'd ask.


----------



## ballog

leobigfield said:


> Tomahawk on sale at Easy earphones! $36! Sad I've bought them at $40 a couple of days ago..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Just ordered a few minutes ago - $37.70 shipped. I wanted the silver one but EasyEarphones only had the 'Black' and 'Blue' in stock. Cleared it up with them and they said the 'Blue' is in fact the silver one. So I ordered 'Blue'.

@BloodyPenguin can you tell me how is the packaging? If there is a box I will tell them to forego it - it will be easier to pass customs for me.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> The BOE has a relaxed, yet highly detailed sound, that is closer to neutral than the Tomahawk.  The Tomahawk in comparison is more forward with a touch more sub-bass.
> 
> Both are wonderful earbuds, but with different sound signatures.  I'm enjoying listening to the two against each other.


 
  
 Damn, I am bloody tempted to buy the earbuds now hahaha


----------



## music4mhell

audionewbi3 said:


> bloodypenguin said:
> 
> 
> > The BOE has a relaxed, yet highly detailed sound, that is closer to neutral than the Tomahawk.  The Tomahawk in comparison is more forward with a touch more sub-bass.
> ...


 
 Hmm, i m gonna buy BOE then  Without BOE, my earbud collection will be incomplete.


----------



## lexus91

IMHO BOE super open, relaxing, wide staging earbuds. Headphome like presentation. For me they are amazing pallate cleanser 



bloodypenguin said:


> The BOE has a relaxed, yet highly detailed sound, that is closer to neutral than the Tomahawk.  The Tomahawk in comparison is more forward with a touch more sub-bass.
> 
> Both are wonderful earbuds, but with different sound signatures.  I'm enjoying listening to the two against each other.
> 
> ...


----------



## goldenSHK

yacobx said:


> BTW it does not have like what one head fi er called "sub bass" the cut off is similar to the asura...... I would say id does have more presence around the 100hZ and up mark with makes it bassy... but sorry... no sub bass as in the 20-30hz stuff.


 
 Does any earbud have that though? I don't think I've ever heard good subbass in the 20-30hz range from any earbud. The Zen 2.0 and MX985 come close maybe, but no.


----------



## yacobx

goldenshk said:


> yacobx said:
> 
> 
> > BTW it does not have like what one head fi er called "sub bass" the cut off is similar to the asura...... I would say id does have more presence around the 100hZ and up mark with makes it bassy... but sorry... no sub bass as in the 20-30hz stuff.
> ...


 
 My point exactly. The claim of "sub bass" was the reason I actually jumped so quickly on the Cygnus. The bud that I know of with the best sub bass is actually the Monk. I was hoping this was gonna be like a upgraded Monk while keeping that stubby bass.


----------



## ballog

yacobx said:


> ................... The bud that I know of with the best sub bass is actually the Monk.


 
 You're joking right?
 For my part the earbud with best sub-bass I own is the Edifier H180.


----------



## golov17

Beta Asura with better sub-bass, IMHO


----------



## yacobx

ballog said:


> yacobx said:
> 
> 
> > ................... The bud that I know of with the best sub bass is actually the Monk.
> ...







golov17 said:


> Beta Asura with better sub-bass, IMHO




I never had the h180  I've heard great things about beta asura. Check out brooko graphs, it shows the monks sub bass.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

ballog said:


> Just ordered a few minutes ago - $37.70 shipped. I wanted the silver one but EasyEarphones only had the 'Black' and 'Blue' in stock. Cleared it up with them and they said the 'Blue' is in fact the silver one. So I ordered 'Blue'.
> 
> @BloodyPenguin can you tell me how is the packaging? If there is a box I will tell them to forego it - it will be easier to pass customs for me.


 

 You are going to LOVE the Tomahawk. 
  
 I answered your question via IM, but it come with just the pouch.  But it was shipped to me in a small cardboard box that was wrapped up VERY well.  I am not sure if they use the same method for everyone.
  
 --


----------



## Danneq

bloodypenguin said:


> I answered your question via IM, but it come with just the pouch.  But it was shipped to me in a small cardboard box that was wrapped up VERY well.  I am not sure if they use the same method for everyone.
> 
> --


 

 It has been the same the two times that I have bought earbuds from them (first DK-Jin and then Tomahawk).


----------



## oopeteroo

can't decide to get asura 2.0 or ting or hawk or pk2 :O but asura, ting, pk2 need amp to shine? I'm going to use with my clip+ or if i upgrade to fiio m3 or cowon m2


----------



## BloodyPenguin

oopeteroo said:


> can't decide to get asura 2.0 or ting or hawk or pk2 :O but asura, ting, pk2 need amp to shine? I'm going to use with my clip+ or if i upgrade to fiio m3 or cowon m2


 
  
 Ting and Tomahawk both work just fine from little DAPs.  Sounds great with my little FiiO M3.  

 I am sure they would both do just fine out of the Clip+ as well, wish I could test that for you, but I sold mine.
  
 --


----------



## klove4252

oopeteroo said:


> can't decide to get asura 2.0 or ting or hawk or pk2 :O but asura, ting, pk2 need amp to shine? I'm going to use with my clip+ or if i upgrade to fiio m3 or cowon m2


 
 I think the Asura needs a bit more power than the M3 to get it to its full potential. I have the M3, and it works fine with the Tomahawks. I have the PK1, and the M3 does not really push that to its full potential, but it should be able to get the PK2 there. I typically use the Paw Gold with the Asura and PK1.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

BTW, glad I have made some friends in China.  Have a buddy who is trying to get me the Tomahawk In-Ear Earphone.
  
 Those interested can also pick up a pair (For a little over $50) from a Taobao agent like MisterTao:  http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/39172442020.html
  
  
 EDIT, Here is the Official Page for it:  https://item.taobao.com/item.html?id=39172442020
  
 2nd Edit, seems there are 3 tuning options, not sure if I like that. [_Optional tuning style: bass, balanced, high-resolution_]

 Not sure what style I will be getting (fingers crossed all three!)  
  
  
 Really looking forward to getting to try these out! I'll post up about them when they hopefully come in!  


  
 --


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Guys....guess what..........I just bought the Earbud Thailand BOE............Goddamit all.........goddamit all...............


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> Guys....guess what..........I just bought the Earbud Thailand BOE............Goddamit all.........goddamit all...............


 
  
 Congrats!  Great Earbud for your collection, you will enjoy them very much.  Great purchase!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 --


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> Guys....guess what..........I just bought the Earbud Thailand BOE............Goddamit all.........goddamit all...............


 

 Weren't those discontinued?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> Congrats!  Great Earbud for your collection, you will enjoy them very much.  Great purchase!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the consolation mate.

 Okay This WILL BE MY LAST EARBUD......IT HAS TO BE......IT HAS TO.......it just has to......................


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> Weren't those discontinued?


 
 Nope still available. I just confirmed it from their FB page. BOE is also thier FS for 2016.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

danneq said:


> Weren't those discontinued?


 

 I was told by the owner they were, but I guess they did another run of them.
  
 ..


----------



## rggz

Today I'm trying a weird thing, just add my Genelec subwoofer on my FiiO E17 lineout and my earbud to headphone out to play both together, and wow crazy acoustic effect!! If you have a preamp and an active sub will be a great fun.(the problem is fix the volume match)


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Guys....guess what..........I just bought the Earbud Thailand BOE............Goddamit all.........goddamit all...............


Congrats, bro


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> Thanks for the consolation mate.
> 
> Okay This WILL BE MY LAST EARBUD......IT HAS TO BE......IT HAS TO.......it just has to......................


 


 You mean: your last earbud in March? Then comes April, then May, then June...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> Congrats, bro


 
  
 Thanks mate.


danneq said:


> You mean: your last earbud in March? Then comes April, then May, then June...


 
  
 Nah, I seriously think this is my last earbud for a while, semester break is almost over and uni is about to start, that means more saving to buy buds or vice versa.
  
 I think I am pretty satisfied with my current lineup of buds:

 Sidy BGVP KT100
 DIY Power Beats Dual Driver
 SeaHf 320Ohms
 Hifiman ES100
 Vintage AIWA V14 OEM (Lookalike)
 MrZ Tomahawk
 Shozy Cygnus
 Earbud Thailand BOE

 But I am only bring the following back to Uni
  
 Tomahawk
 SeaHf 320Ohms
 Dual Driver
 Cygnus 
 BOE


 Oh and Hifiman RE400 IEM for the plane ride.


----------



## haiku

audionewbi3 said:


> Thanks mate.
> 
> Nah, I seriously think this is my last earbud for a while, semester break is almost over and uni is about to start, that means more saving to buy buds or vice versa.
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, Hifiman ES100, great earbud, too. Wonder why it doesn´t get mentioned more often.


----------



## Danneq

I recently sold a little over 20 pairs of earbuds (including Hifiman ES100). Still my collection is well over 20, and there are still 5-6 of the current ones that I want to buy...
  


Spoiler: Right now:



Aiwa HP D9
 Aiwa HP V2
 Aiwa HP V3
 AKG K14P
 AKG K319
 Astrotec Lyra (with silly balanced plug)
 ATH CM7SV
 ATH CM700TI
 Blox TM7
 Celsus Gramo One
 Dasetn MX1
 Dasetn M760
 Music Maker MrZ Tomahawk 
 Pioneer SE-CE521KK
 Sennheiser MX980
 Sennheiser OMX980
 Sony MDR E252
 Sony MDR E282
 Sony MDR E484
 Sony MDR W20 (some sort of earbuds attached to a headband)
 VE Monk
 VE Zen 1


----------



## supplehope

I am actually still quite interested with the Hifiman ES100 even before I joined Head-Fi. I also noticed that (the quietness around the Hifimans besides a review) as well long ago.


----------



## ballog

bloodypenguin said:


> You are going to LOVE the Tomahawk.
> 
> I answered your question via IM, but it come with just the pouch.  But it was shipped to me in a small cardboard box that was wrapped up VERY well.  I am not sure if they use the same method for everyone.
> 
> --



Thanks for your reply man. I already have the Edifier H180, Baldoor E100, VE Monk and my favorite Blox BE3 (had the MC2 with crap cable before). I have been looking for a more balanced upgrade to the BE3 at around $50 for some time now, Blox seems to be out of business (well no longer want to wait) and the Tomahawk fits the bill perfectly. I have been following your earbud reviews for some time, i like your taste and i have faith in your recommendations. Thanks again bro.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> I recently sold a little over 20 pairs of earbuds (including Hifiman ES100). Still my collection is well over 20, and there are still 5-6 of the current ones that I want to buy...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It will take me a long........long time to get to this stage..............and money......and dedication. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





supplehope said:


> I am actually still quite interested with the Hifiman ES100 even before I joined Head-Fi. I also noticed that (the quietness around the Hifimans besides a review) as well long ago.


 
  
  


haiku said:


> Yeah, Hifiman ES100, great earbud, too. Wonder why it doesn´t get mentioned more often.


 
  
 IMHO, there seems to be nothing wrong with the ES100, but also nothing particularly special about them. Out of all my earbuds, I find them to be very "normal" sounding. I guess that is why they are not as popular as say the Tomahawks (which are "fun" sounding) I presume.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Since we are listing current earbuds, I have not sold, but given away a lot lately to family and friends (which they are very happy about).

 I just don't need to have a bunch of ones laying around that I am not going to use. If I have not given them away, I'd have about 40 or so earbuds.
  
  
 What I have left over:
  
 MusicMaker Tomahawk
 MusicMaker Ting
 Dark Horse G400 (Though not a fan of these)
 Earbud Thailand BOE
 Suvov S20
 VE Monk
 VE Asura (1.0)
  
  
 What I have on the way:
  
 Rose Mojito
  
  
  
 What I still have to sell or give away:
  
 Sunrise Feeling AS-II
  
 --


----------



## Joy Boy

Wow, everyone listing their earbud now. Then, let me join the list too.

What I have now:
Boarseman Mx98
Dx.V4 (thai diy)
Fareal (black cable)
MrZ Tomahawk
Seahf 150ohm
Ve monk
Ve asura 1.0
Ve zen 1.0
Ve zen 2.0
Edifier H180 hi-mod (recable de'mun cab + jack rhodium plated)

But lately i think i wanna sell my ve asura & seahf 150ohm


----------



## vapman

If anyone's looking for those Sennheiser rubber rings, I bought a set but didn't particularly care for them, selling them now.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> What I have on the way:
> 
> Rose Mojito
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Rose Mojito, I am very very much interested to hear your impressions and maybe even a review of them.
  
 As for the Feeling II, as mentioned a few posts back, I was seriously considering them, until that is I reread your and hifiearbuds' review of the BOE.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

joy boy said:


> Wow, everyone listing their earbud now. Then, let me join the list too.
> 
> What I have now:
> Boarseman Mx98
> ...


 
 Fareal? Which earbud is that?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> The Rose Mojito, I am very very much interested to hear your impressions and maybe even a review of them.
> 
> As for the Feeling II, as mentioned a few posts back, I was seriously considering them, until that is I reread your and hifiearbuds' review of the BOE.


 
  
 I really hope today is the day I get the Mojito!  Fingers crossed!
  
  
 Yes, the BOE is the better Earbud by far, though it is almost twice as expensive as the Feeling II.
  
 --


----------



## vapman

@Joy Boy How do you like the Edifier H180? I sold mine to one of my friends before ever getting to hear it.
  
 Has anyone directly compared the Shozy Cygnus to the Asura 2.0?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

joy boy said:


> Wow, everyone listing their earbud now. Then, let me join the list too.
> 
> What I have now:
> ..
> ...


 


audionewbi3 said:


> Fareal? Which earbud is that?


 
  
 Yes, I was wondering the exact same thing.  I have seen the Fareal, I want to know how I can get my hands on one in the US.
  
 Is there an official website for them?
  
 --


----------



## golov17

Rose Mojito In ear?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> In ear?


 
  
 There are two versions.  In-Ear and Earbud:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-New-Rose-Mojito-Flat-Head-Earphone-Double-Dynamic-HIFI-Monitor-Headphone-DIY-Headset-With-TF/32616371529.html


----------



## music4mhell

My turn:

Ve zen 2
Ve monk
Tomahawk
Ting
Cygnus
Ostry Kc08
Mrice E100
Edifier 190
Soundmagic ep20
Bose soundsport
Dark horse g400 + 150 ohm version
Tingo 38s
Jiushao e300
Boarsman k25
Awei es10, ws1

fyi. i bought my first earbud ve zen 2 jjust 2 months back.


----------



## satansmutt

I don't have as many as most of you but my collection is steadily growing
  
 Marshall minors
 Baldoor earbell E100
 VE Monk
 VE Zen 2.0
 VE Asura 2.0
 Edifier H185
 Edifier H101
  
 I might pull the trigger on the tomahawks and Boarsman k25 if they are any good
  
 I was also thinking of the Shozy cygnus but I think they might be too similar to the Asura 2
  
 I also really really really hope and pray those rose mojitos sound absolutely terrible lol or they might just about push me over the edge


----------



## ClieOS

bloodypenguin said:


> There are two versions.  In-Ear and Earbud:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-New-Rose-Mojito-Flat-Head-Earphone-Double-Dynamic-HIFI-Monitor-Headphone-DIY-Headset-With-TF/32616371529.html




They are two different models, not the same product that is made into both earbud and in-ear.


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> It will take me a long........long time to get to this stage..............and money......and dedication.


 

 Well, I've been into earbuds since around 2008 when I bought a pair of Yuin PK3. Then PK2. Then ATH CM700.

 Vintage Sony and Aiwa demand the most dedication and money. After I became a father 1,5 year ago I do not have as much money to spend or time to search, so now I focus on current and more modern earbuds...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

clieos said:


> They are two different models, not the same product that is made into both earbud and in-ear.


 
  
 Exactly.
  
 --


----------



## Danneq

By the way, I hope that golov17 will not list all of his earbuds. That list should take up 2-3 pages!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

danneq said:


> By the way, I hope that golov17 will not list all of his earbuds. That list should take up 2-3 pages!


 
  
 Haa!!  It would be like Jay Leno listing how many cars he owns!


----------



## satansmutt

danneq said:


> By the way, I hope that golov17 will not list all of his earbuds. That list should take up 2-3 pages!


 
  
 If he lists all of his earbuds the internet will break


----------



## haiku

audionewbi3 said:


> It will take me a long........long time to get to this stage..............and money......and dedication.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, some say "normal" others say "neutral". It definitely isn´t an earbud that wows you at first. But after a while I started to like the balanced mids and airy highs. Especially when I´m out for a walk I´ve noticed that the soundstage really opens up and delivers a veeery nice sonic experience.


----------



## Danneq

ballog said:


> Blox seems to be out of business (well no longer want to wait)


 

 Actually, they are still in business. I recently exchanged some e-mails with Woo, the owner. Blox might release a new earbud later in the spring. It is not yet completely ready for sale so they cannot say any date yet. Perhaps before the summer. It might be around the level of BE3 or M2C (my guess).

 Blox is a small company that develops just about everything themselves, so it takes time since they do not have the resourses of other makers such as VE or Yuin...


----------



## ozkan

How does Seahf 320 ohm sound compare to Monk or Tomahawks?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Just got confirmation through the Postal Service that the *Rose **Mojito* is almost here!  I hope it gets to me in at least the next two days!  
  
 --


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> Actually, they are still in business. I recently exchanged some e-mails with Woo, the owner. Blox might release a new earbud later in the spring. It is not yet completely ready for sale so they cannot say any date yet. Perhaps before the summer. It might be around the level of BE3 or M2C (my guess).
> 
> 
> Blox is a small company that develops just about everything themselves, so it takes time since they do not have the resourses of other makers such as VE or Yuin...


it's true..


----------



## yacobx

saw this picture on fb. What earbuds are these?


----------



## golov17

yacobx said:


> saw this picture on fb. What earbuds are these?


Ubiquo-Ucotech es1003 16 Ohm,1103 80 Ohm


----------



## yacobx

@golov17  dude..... you are amazing, your knowledge of earbuds is massive. Do you have these?


----------



## golov17

yacobx said:


> @golov17
> dude..... you are amazing, your knowledge of earbuds is massive. Do you have these?


only es903


----------



## lexus91

Its not earbuds. But still based on tomahawk? Can't wait for em to arrive!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

ozkan said:


> How does Seahf 320 ohm sound compare to Monk or Tomahawks?


 
 The Soundstage of the 320Ohm is smaller than that of the Tomahawks. I feel that the 320Ohms provides a warm and lush sounding signature. 

 Kindly read bloody penguin's Dark Horse G400 review. Someone mentioned that they sound similar to the 320Ohms. Though after some PM exchange with a fellowe forum member who owned both the 400 and 320 ohms, the owner mentions that he prefers the 320Ohm because the 400Ohm just sounds too "thick" and will need a properamp to shine.


----------



## Joy Boy

audionewbi3 said:


> Fareal? Which earbud is that?







bloodypenguin said:


> Yes, I was wondering the exact same thing.  I have seen the Fareal, I want to know how I can get my hands on one in the US.
> 
> Is there an official website for them?
> 
> --



I got them from group buy. My friends said he bought it from taobao. There's 3 kind of cable, black-twisted-blue.
Just info, for the ordinary black cable type, it's said that the driver is the old monk driver (red mark). And it produced by same factory too.
I'll ask my friend where to buy them then i'll share it


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> @Joy Boy
> How do you like the Edifier H180? I sold mine to one of my friends before ever getting to hear it.
> 
> Has anyone directly compared the Shozy Cygnus to the Asura 2.0?



I love it. Very good bass quality. And it's famous by local modder as the best potential driver. If you modified it with de'mun cable and rhodium jack, it sound very great. The bass quality and impact could compete with even be zen 1 (i know it's crazy, right?)


----------



## vapman

joy boy said:


> I love it. Very good bass quality. And it's famous by local modder as the best potential driver. If you modified it with de'mun cable and rhodium jack, it sound very great. The bass quality and impact could compete with even be zen 1 (i know it's crazy, right?)


 

 Wow. Maybe I made a mistake selling my friend the P180 before hearing it. Does it need to have a new cable for the best sound or is it still good with the stock cable?
  
 What is so special about the driver? I'm interested to know more about it. Maybe I'll buy it again.


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> Wow. Maybe I made a mistake selling my friend the P180 before hearing it. Does it need to have a new cable for the best sound or is it still good with the stock cable?
> 
> What is so special about the driver? I'm interested to know more about it. Maybe I'll buy it again.



With stock cable it can compete to ve monk. But after mod, it can compete with tomahawk, ve asura, even Ve zen. But if you like it with more detail and brighter, just try H185.

And for seahf 320ohm, it's sound warm and rich with thick vocal. But lack of detail & clarity. Bass quality is not too good, sound boomy sometimes. If you compare it to tomahawk, it's a total win for tomahawk in all aspect i think


----------



## Joy Boy

Fareal black cable --> http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=527381154674&wp_m=hotsell_goods_-1&wp_pk=shop/index_2094353800_&wp_app=weapp&from=inshop


----------



## Decommo

joy boy said:


> Fareal black cable --> http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=527381154674&wp_m=hotsell_goods_-1&wp_pk=shop/index_2094353800_&wp_app=weapp&from=inshop


 
  
 Can we purchase this cable from Aliexpress too?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

joy boy said:


> And for seahf 320ohm, it's sound warm and rich with thick vocal. But lack of detail & clarity. Bass quality is not too good, sound boomy sometimes. If you compare it to tomahawk, it's a total win for tomahawk in all aspect i think




Hmm, so far in my 2 months use of the SeaHf 320Ohms, I have not found the bass on the 320 boomy, but then again, maybe I do not have any music with boomy base. 

However, for Vocal Jazz, I do prefer my 320 over the Tomahawks. This is because, the 320 Ohms, give me an image of listening to live Jazz performance in an underground smooky Jazz bar.

That is just me at least hahaha.


----------



## Joy Boy

decommo said:


> Can we purchase this cable from Aliexpress too?



I didn't find aliexpress link 



audionewbi3 said:


> Hmm, so far in my 2 months use of the SeaHf 320Ohms, I have not found the bass on the 320 boomy, but then again, maybe I do not have any music with boomy base.
> 
> However, for Vocal Jazz, I do prefer my 320 over the Tomahawks. This is because, the 320 Ohms, give me an image of listening to live Jazz performance in an underground smooky Jazz bar.
> 
> That is just me at least hahaha.



O i remember, seahf 320ohm has 2 kind cable. Black-twisted & white (like zen cable). The builder said that it had different sound.
Mine is black twisted. He said that "zen cable" has better clarity than black cable. When i compare seahf 320 (black) and my seahf 150ohm (yes, 150ohm use white cable like zen too), i feel 150ohm bass is not boomy and a less warm


----------



## AudioNewbi3

joy boy said:


> I didn't find aliexpress link
> O i remember, seahf 320ohm has 2 kind cable. Black-twisted & white (like zen cable). The builder said that it had different sound.
> Mine is black twisted. He said that "zen cable" has better clarity than black cable. When i compare seahf 320 (black) and my seahf 150ohm (yes, 150ohm use white cable like zen too), i feel 150ohm bass is not boomy and a less warm




That may explain a lot. My cable is silver not black


----------



## vapman

joy boy said:


> Fareal black cable --> http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=527381154674&wp_m=hotsell_goods_-1&wp_pk=shop/index_2094353800_&wp_app=weapp&from=inshop


 

 Thanks a bunch for the good info. This is a DIY cable i assume, as in you do the soldering yourself?


----------



## ryanjsoo

Just finished my Fiio EM3 review, you can view it in the review area or on my blog, https://everydaylisteningblog.wordpress.com/. Hope you enjoy the review, they`re a solid budget earbud.


----------



## klove4252

ryanjsoo said:


> Just finished my Fiio EM3 review, you can view it in the review area or on my blog, https://everydaylisteningblog.wordpress.com/. Hope you enjoy the review, they`re a solid budget earbud.


 
 Great review. I wasn't planning on grabbing a pair of these when they went on sale, but after reading your review I will.


----------



## ClieOS




----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


>


 
 So, we have 2 Mojito's in the house?

 Oh btw, is it true that they are made in some university?


----------



## vapman

My EE and VE orders shipped on the same day but no EE yet. Hopefully it'll show up today.
  
 Impressions of the Asura 2.0 though are that I expected them to be a lot more similar to the Monk than they are. They are amazing and I prefer them on nearly every track. On tracks the Monk is too forward at times, the Asura has wonderful spacing and imaging.
  
 Don't take this as a sales pitch because you see one for sale in my signature.... that's because I bought two of them and only need one, but I don't mind having two 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 I have to know how those Rose sound...


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> So, we have 2 Mojito's in the house?
> 
> 
> Oh btw, is it true that they are made in some university?


what?


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> So, we have 2 Mojito's in the house?
> 
> *Oh btw, is it true that they are made in some university?*


 
  
 According to the address on the box, yes. A bit of googling suggests that the address belongs to a college owned center that specializes in helping out startup companies from students.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

clieos said:


>


 
  
 Any quick impressions???
  
 --


----------



## ClieOS

bloodypenguin said:


> Any quick impressions???
> 
> --


 
  
 Pretty much what the Chinese have been saying about it - bright (though I don't consider it to be particularly bright when used with foam pad) with a super airy soundstage. Overall, it has more or less a neutral to slightly cold tone. I think it is particularly well suited for classical and any kind of orchestral works. No doubt another ToTL earbuds.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

clieos said:


> Pretty much what the Chinese have been saying about it - bright (though I don't consider it to be particularly bright when used with foam pad) with a super airy soundstage. Overall, it has more or less a neutral to slightly cold tone. I think it is particularly well suited for classical and any kind of orchestral works. No doubt another ToTL earbuds.


 
  
 Awesome, thanks for your quick take.
  
 Now I am even more excited to hear them for myself...  
  
 ..


----------



## vapman

Agreed, I may have to get a pair for myself!
  
 The Asura 2.0 is really surprising me. It sounds so nice with everything play thru them. I have thought about keeping my second set at work or something...
  
 Hopefully the Tomahawk etc aren't far off - I can't wait to compare to all those


----------



## ClieOS

I am listening to some of my most familiar classical music right now and it is giving me goosebump. The soundstage is almost to die for. No kidding.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

clieos said:


> I am listening to some of my most familiar classical music right now and it is giving me goosebump. The soundstage is almost to die for. No kidding.


 

 Ok, that is enough...  Stop it.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Mail- person did not deliver them today...  I have to wait at least another 24 hours....  
  
 --


----------



## music4mhell

clieos said:


> I am listening to some of my most familiar classical music right now and it is giving me goosebump. The soundstage is almost to die for. No kidding.


where you will keep the rose in your ranking ?


----------



## ClieOS

music4mhell said:


> where you will keep the rose in your ranking ?


 
  
 Somewhere near the summit?


----------



## vapman

clieos said:


> Somewhere near the summit?




Does it have decent bass or is it too thin?


----------



## klove4252

clieos said:


> Somewhere near the summit?


 
 Well... Looks like I'm going to throw some more money at my screen to buy these. When my kids ask me why I don't have money to afford their college tuition, I will direct them to these forums.


----------



## rggz

klove4252 said:


> Well... Looks like I'm going to throw some more money at my screen to buy these. When my kids ask me why I don't have money to afford their college tuition, I will direct them to these forums.


 
  
 I remember that, lol


----------



## Danneq

clieos said:


> Pretty much what the Chinese have been saying about it - bright (though I don't consider it to be particularly bright when used with foam pad) with a super airy soundstage. Overall, it has more or less a neutral to slightly cold tone. I think it is particularly well suited for classical and any kind of orchestral works. No doubt another ToTL earbuds.




It sounds like it's not too far from Celsus Gramo One...


----------



## golov17

This thread is in the fire!


----------



## jant71

On fire? or in the fire? One would be good the other not so good


----------



## golov17

jant71 said:


> On fire? or in the fire? One would be good the other not so good :wink_face:


Norm


----------



## AudioNewbi3

@ClieOS
  
 Quote:


clieos said:


> According to the address on the box, yes. A bit of googling suggests that the address belongs to a college owned center that specializes in helping out startup companies from students.


 
  
 Thanks for the confirmation sifu! Because I read some reviews on the Chinese forums and some guy mentioned that he was quite glad to get a pair of earphone made by young University female students hahahaha.


clieos said:


> Pretty much what the Chinese have been saying about it - bright (though I don't consider it to be particularly bright when used with foam pad) with a super airy soundstage. Overall, it has more or less a neutral to slightly cold tone. I think it is particularly well suited for classical and any kind of orchestral works. No doubt another ToTL earbuds.


 
  
 How would you compare them with the DIY Dual Drivers? And which cable were you using? Black? White?

 Thank-you


----------



## ClieOS

vapman said:


> Does it have decent bass or is it too thin?


 
  
 If you are looking for big bass, look elsewhere as I'll say it has almost neutral amount of bass.
  


klove4252 said:


> Well... Looks like I'm going to throw some more money at my screen to buy these. When my kids ask me why I don't have money to afford their college tuition, I will direct them to these forums.


 
  
 If you want to get one, don't wait for too long. It is said that production will stop once they run out of the bass driver, which is a vintage Panasonic driver from the old days when Panasonic made their legendary dual driver earbuds. Rose Tech. said in the past that they are only planning to do a limited run of 100 pairs and currently there should be around 11 pairs still left on Taobao.
  


danneq said:


> It sounds like it's not too far from Celsus Gramo One...


 
  
 Scored a 2nd hand Gramo One from a fellow HFer recently actually. Should be interesting to compare them.
  


audionewbi3 said:


> Thanks for the confirmation sifu! Because I read some reviews on the Chinese forums and some guy mentioned that he was quite glad to get a pair of earphone made by young University female students hahahaha.
> 
> How would you compare them with the DIY Dual Drivers? And which cable were you using? Black? White?
> 
> Thank-you


 
  
 Cable as in Mojito's? I am keeping it to the black cable for now.
  
 If we were to compare the mid-range only, then maybe the DIY dual driver has some advantage. But for overall SQ, the Mojito is another level above, especially if you consider Mojito is beating DIY dual driver on both its strengths (soundstage and micro-detail). But I'll say this - if you are listening to a big mix of mainstream music, then probably the DIY dual driver is an easier going choice. Mojito, while excellent on many levels, only truly excels in music that required big soundstage and doesn't need any emphasis on the mid range.


----------



## Joy Boy

OMG!!!


----------



## vapman

clieos said:


> If you are looking for big bass, look elsewhere as I'll say it has almost neutral amount of bass.


 
 I'm less concerned with big bass as bass presence. Neutral amount is okay, but by your description I was worried it might be too bright & thin for me, like a DT880/990. As long as bass isn't totally not there.


----------



## ClieOS

vapman said:


> I'm less concerned with big bass as bass presence. Neutral amount is okay, but by your description I was worried it might be too bright & thin for me, like a DT880/990. As long as bass isn't totally not there.


 
  
 Bass presence is fine IMO. There is a way to tune up the mid range by sandwiching a small piece of foam (cut from foam pad) between the foam pad the the front treble driver (which is somewhat opposite of a donut foam) , but in exchange you will lose about 20% of the soundstage and micro-detail.


----------



## Joy Boy

OMG! Is it officially launched? Where to find them?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Cable as in Mojito's? I am keeping it to the black cable for now.
> 
> If we were to compare the mid-range only, then maybe the DIY dual driver has some advantage. But for overall SQ, the Mojito is another level above, especially if you consider Mojito is beating DIY dual driver on both its strengths (soundstage and micro-detail). But I'll say this - if you are listening to a big mix of mainstream music, then probably the DIY dual driver is an easier going choice. Mojito, while excellent on many levels, only truly excels in music that required big soundstage and doesn't need any emphasis on the mid range.


 
 Yup, cable of the Mojito, cause I heard thst they came with 2 cables.
  
 Wow, I cant not even begin to imagine an earbud having a wider soundstage than the Dual Drivers. Too bad, the price is way beyond what I can afford.

 Listen it in good health sifu!


----------



## golov17

joy boy said:


> OMG!!!


 This?

PS. Thanks Taufan from ELI


----------



## Joy Boy

golov17 said:


> This?
> 
> PS. Thanks Taufan from ELI



What??! You already got it sir? I should contact him ASAP


----------



## WillTirta

Hmm.. daik jin..has it quite a long time. but havent touch it.. now try to use and give impression after use it for a while.. just wait


----------



## yacobx




----------



## golov17

joy boy said:


> What??! You already got it sir? I should contact him ASAP


No, I'm not interested in Blox now


----------



## goldenSHK

I bet the new Blox flagship will rival or even surpass the VE Zen. It has been in the works for over a year now if I recall correctly. Perhaps it'll best the TM7 in all categories as well??


----------



## Sylmar

They look very nice, kind of retro. I'm very interested in your impressions. 
  
 Quote:


willtirta said:


> Hmm.. daik jin..has it quite a long time. but havent touch it.. now try to use and give impression after use it for a while.. just wait


----------



## Danneq

sylmar said:


> They look very nice, kind of retro. I'm very interested in your impressions




I bought them about 2 months ago and then traded them away. While they sound real good, it wasn't my type of sound...

My impressions from a PM I wrote to another head fier:


> Bass is deep and really good for earbuds (beefy without being to "flabby" and loose). Highs are sharp without being harsh. The soundstage is pretty deep and detail is okay.
> 
> But the overall sound is a bit too intimate for me. I want a soundstage that is more wide and open.


----------



## Sylmar

danneq said:


> I bought them about 2 months ago and then traded them away. While they sound real good, it wasn't my type of sound...
> 
> My impressions from a PM I wrote to another head fier:


 
 I see. Shame that the soundstage is lacking. That is the main factor I'd opt for earbuds over inears. Might go for the Tomahawk's instead. Just waiting for the Aliexpress sale to start.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

sylmar said:


> I see. Shame that the soundstage is lacking. That is the main factor I'd opt for earbuds over inears. Might go for the Tomahawk's instead. Just waiting for the Aliexpress sale to start.


 
 Todate, the largest soundstage earbud in my collection is the DIY DUAL drivers.


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> Todate, the largest soundstage earbud in my collection is the DIY DUAL drivers.


 

 Which is this? That's an awful generic name to search, haha.
  
 I'm very much enjoying the Dasetn MC5. too bad they stopped making it, because it truly is an earbud bassheads will be happy with. It doesn't have close to the impact of IEMs or headphones, but easily the best sub and mid bass I've heard out of some buds.


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> Todate, the largest soundstage earbud in my collection is the DIY DUAL drivers.




Aiwa HP D9! Amazing soundstage but very lean bass. But apparently V99 has got an even bigger soundstage together with better bass. Tomahawk's soundstage is very good, and definitely recommended.


----------



## ClieOS

vapman said:


> Which is this? That's an awful generic name to search, haha.


 
  
 This: http://world.taobao.com/item/37119460429.htm


----------



## vapman

Pretty nice looking. I think I saw those but assumed the DIY meant you'd get some kind of "some assembly required" kit


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Which is this? That's an awful generic name to search, haha.
> 
> I'm very much enjoying the Dasetn MC5. too bad they stopped making it, because it truly is an earbud bassheads will be happy with. It doesn't have close to the impact of IEMs or headphones, but easily the best sub and mid bass I've heard out of some buds.


 try similar
http://www.head-fi.org/products/3-14-paiaudio-flat-earbuds

http://s.aliexpress.com/aMbuaeq2


----------



## AudioNewbi3

If anyone would like to buy the TING AND TOMAHAWK, here is something I randomly found on AE
  
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-MrZ-Tomahawk-MusicMaker-Z-In-Ear-Earbuds-With-MusicMaker-Ting-In-Ear-Earphone-Alloy-Tune/519064_32636595516.html


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> Aiwa HP D9! Amazing soundstage but very lean bass. But apparently V99 has got an even bigger soundstage together with better bass. Tomahawk's soundstage is very good, and definitely recommended.


 
  
 I would purchase the Mojitos before I purchase those legendary Aiwa's hahaha. The price of an Aiwa maybe equivalent to 3 Mojitos at least?


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> I would purchase the Mojitos before I purchase those legendary Aiwa's hahaha. The price of an Aiwa maybe equivalent to 3 Mojitos at least?




Probably... I paid around 110 euro for my pair a few years ago. They came with a defective Aiwa audio recorder and weren't marked in the listing. I just recognized them in the photo. If they had been listed as well price might have been 2-3 times higher...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> If anyone would like to buy the TING AND TOMAHAWK, here is something I randomly found on AE
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-MrZ-Tomahawk-MusicMaker-Z-In-Ear-Earbuds-With-MusicMaker-Ting-In-Ear-Earphone-Alloy-Tune/519064_32636595516.html


 
  
 Nice find.  BTW, looks EE is using my silver Tomahawk pictures from my review.  Cool... Cool.
  
 I wonder if they with use my Ting photos as well when the full review hopefully comes out later today.
  
 ...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> Probably... I paid around 110 euro for my pair a few years ago. They came with a defective Aiwa audio recorder and weren't marked in the listing. I just recognized them in the photo. If they had been listed as well price might have been 2-3 times higher...


 
  
 Oh, the value goes up with a recorder? I seriously thought that the value of Aiwa's were only in the buds themselves.


bloodypenguin said:


> Nice find.  BTW, looks EE is using my silver Tomahawk pictures from my review.  Cool... Cool.
> 
> I wonder if they with use my Ting photos as well when the full review hopefully comes out later today.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice mate! Looking forward to your review.

 Mind I ask which camera, lens and lighting set up do you use for your shots?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Oh btw, I just wanted to mention a great album I have been enjoying for a long time. Have a search if you guys have the time.

 Himawari : Tribute album to KAWAI Eri

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Aria_soundtracks#Himawari
  
http://www.game-ost.com/albums/27122/himawari_-_kawai_eri_tribute/
  
 I am very much enjoying them.

 Edit: I recommend you have a listen to track

 2 & 3 & 15.

 Damn, I bet they would sound heavenly with the Mojito's


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> Oh, the value goes up with a recorder? I seriously thought that the value of Aiwa's were only in the buds themselves.




I think the other bidders wanted the recorder. If the earbuds had been listed, the auction might have finished around 200-300 euro...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> I think the other bidders wanted the recorder. If the earbuds had been listed, the auction might have finished around 200-300 euro...


 
 Ah I see I see.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> Mind I ask which camera, lens and lighting set up do you use for your shots?


 
  
 Yeah no problem.  Picked up one of these a few years ago:
  

  
  
  
  






  I bought a 2009 *Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH1* about 6 years ago.  It is a micro 4/3rds camera and I got it for a great price because the replacement GH2 was just being released.
  
 I only have two extra lenses; a Panasonic 45-200mm (which cost me as much as the camera) and a extremely cheap macro.  For lighting, I just use random lamps around they house.  I don't have a professional lighting setup.
  
 --


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> Yeah no problem.  Picked up one of these a few years ago:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Ah I see I see. It's amazing what the micro 4/3rds can pump out in term of image quality. That is very interesting that you do not have a proper lighting set up, yet, the images looks so professionally done.

 Keep up the good job mate!


 Btw, I used to (well still is) shoot with my Nikons but now I am moving back towards film hahaha


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> Yeah no problem.  Picked up one of these a few years ago:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 always beautiful pics, thanks


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> Ah I see I see. It's amazing what the micro 4/3rds can pump out in term of image quality. That is very interesting that you do not have a proper lighting set up, yet, the images looks so professionally done.
> 
> Keep up the good job mate!
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't want to get too off topic, but yeah I am really impressed what the little 7 year old camera can do.  Even without a proper lighting setup, it can take great images.  I do hope to get some professional lighting in the future.  We are moving soon and I should have a MUCH larger area to take my photos at the new place.  
  
 I will add, I am quite good a Photoshop for the post editing.
  
  

 To stay on topic, here is on teaser pic from my upcoming Ting Review:
  

  
 --


----------



## AudioNewbi3

The sexy red devil finally appears!


----------



## music4mhell

How is 1more piston earbud ? 
any1 tried yet ?


----------



## ClieOS

music4mhell said:


> How is 1more piston earbud ?
> any1 tried yet ?


 
  
 That one is not worth trying.


----------



## vapman

I wonder if I can stand waiting for a Ting vs Mojito comparison or if I'll end up just buying both.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> I wonder if I can stand waiting for a Ting vs Mojito comparison or if I'll end up just buying both.


 


 My Mojito is out for Delivery!!!   I should hopefully have it in about an hour!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 --


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> I wonder if I can stand waiting for a Ting vs Mojito comparison or if I'll end up just buying both.




Don't forget Celsus Gramo One ($249). This is one expensive hobby!


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> Don't forget Celsus Gramo One ($249). This is one expensive hobby!




Bah, not colorful! What's the point of spending nearly 300 on earbuds if they don't look like candy too?


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> Bah, not colorful! What's the point of spending nearly 300 on earbuds if they don't look like candy too?




Well, it looks a bit like scandinavian licorice...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Finally!  My Official *MusicMaker Ting* review just went live:  http://www.head-fi.org/products/musicmaker-ting/reviews/15584
  
  
 --


----------



## BloodyPenguin

On the same day that I finished my MusicMaker Ting review.... I got something else in the mail:
  
  
 The *Rose Mojito*!!!!
  
 (Please forgive the $15 cellphone picture quality):
  

  

  
  
  
  
 I also JUST got confirmation that the Tomahawk In-Ear Earphone is on the way to me as well.  Though I am not sure which or how many versions I am getting.
  
 Today Rocks!


----------



## ClieOS

bloodypenguin said:


> On the same day that I finished my MusicMaker Ting review.... I got something else in the mail:
> 
> 
> The *Rose Mojito*!!!!
> ...


 
  
 Not to be too cynical about it, but your Mojito does seem to come with nicer case and packaging (then mine as well as any other Mojito packagings I have saw). If they know about your unit is going to be reviewed and therefore giving you the better treatment, I don't think that is the right way to go about it.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

clieos said:


> Not to be too cynical about it, but your Mojito does seem to come with nicer case and packaging (then mine as well as any other Mojito packagings I have saw). If they know about your unit is going to be reviewed and therefore giving you the better treatment, I don't think that is the right way to go about it.


 

 Every time I get an email notification that you quoted me, I cringe.  I am like, what did I do wrong now?
  
  
 I do appreciate all the information though, I did not realize my review unit was different than others.  I will reach out to the seller and see if this is something new going forward.

 I got mine from here, BTW:  http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-New-Rose-Mojito-Flat-Head-Earphone-Double-Dynamic-HIFI-Monitor-Headphone-DIY-Headset-With-TF/32616371529.html
  
 ..


----------



## ClieOS

bloodypenguin said:


> Every time I get an email notification that you quoted me, I cringe.  I am like, what did I do wrong now?
> 
> 
> I do appreciate all the information though, I did not realize my review unit was different than others.  I will reach out to the seller and see if this is something new going forward.
> ...


 
  
 Maybe the Aliexpress seller upgrades yours (as in all international order)? Could very well be the case as I got mine directly from Taobao and definitely not as expensive as Aliexpress.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

clieos said:


> Maybe the Aliexpress seller upgrades yours (as in all international order)? Could very well be the case as I got mine directly from Taobao and definitely not as expensive as Aliexpress.


 
  
 I have contacted the seller.  I will find out if that higher price is due the the "extras" included, that are not with Taobao orders.
  
 --


----------



## vapman

@Joy Boy do you know if the Edifier P180 and H180 are the same driver? I would assume so...
  
 I have to give the Hifiman ES100 credit for having way better bass extension than I thought. It just doesn't like hardware EQing. With software EQ into my Project Starlight rocking a RCA cleartop 12au7 it's very capable of excellent bass depth.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> @Joy Boy
> do you know if the Edifier P180 and H180 are the same driver? I would assume so...
> 
> I have to give the Hifiman ES100 credit for having way better bass extension than I thought. It just doesn't like hardware EQing. With software EQ into my Project Starlight rocking a RCA cleartop 12au7 it's very capable of excellent bass depth.


similar drivers with and without mic


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I just got a message back from  Shenzhen HCkexin Electronic Technology Co., Ltd.on Aliexpress about the *Rose Mojito* and they say, I quote:
  


> "Of course, every order of the Rose Mojito will comes with "Carrying Case, Two Pairs of Cables, cleaning cloth and the Rose Pouch" and “some sponge tips”.


 
  
 So, I did not get any special review package, it is just the normal package anyone would get when buying from here:  http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-New-Rose-Mojito-Flat-Head-Earphone-Double-Dynamic-HIFI-Monitor-Headphone-DIY-Headset-With-TF/32616371529.html
  
 --


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Maybe the Aliexpress seller upgrades yours (as in all international order)? Could very well be the case as I got mine directly from Taobao and definitely not as expensive as Aliexpress.




If I remember correctly, the stsndard packaging came in a white cardbox and the wires are not packed that nicely correct?

Btw, if you buy earphones as expensive as these, wony kastam give you a ring?


----------



## ClieOS

bloodypenguin said:


> I just got a message back from  Shenzhen HCkexin Electronic Technology Co., Ltd.on Aliexpress about the *Rose Mojito* and they say, I quote:
> 
> 
> So, I did not get any special review package, it is just the normal package anyone would get when buying from here:  http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-New-Rose-Mojito-Flat-Head-Earphone-Double-Dynamic-HIFI-Monitor-Headphone-DIY-Headset-With-TF/32616371529.html
> ...


 
  
 This is what the rest (and I assume most) of us is getting: http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4217056440. Definitely not as nice as the one you have - but having save USD$50+ from Taobao, I think I can't complain much.
  


audionewbi3 said:


> If I remember correctly, the stsndard packaging came in a white cardbox and the wires are not packed that nicely correct?
> 
> Btw, if you buy earphones as expensive as these, wony kastam give you a ring?


 
  
 Yep, see link above.
  
 If you use 4PX as your Taobao forwarding agent to Malaysia, it would seem they usually will 'take' care' of any tax issue, if you know what I means...


----------



## AudioNewbi3 (Jan 2, 2018)

Ah yes yes. That is why I was wondering. Cause the official Teiba unboxing is somewhat diff to penguin's.

 Ah so you are using 4PX as your forwarding agent eh? I use my best. It also "take cares of things" when it arrives hahaha!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> Finally!  My Official *MusicMaker Ting* review just went live:  http://www.head-fi.org/products/musicmaker-ting/reviews/15584
> 
> 
> --


 
 Mate, thanks for the review! 

 But after reading it, I think there are a few instances where you mixed up Tomahawk with Tings's or is that just me?


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> Ah yes yes. That is why I was wondering. Cause the official Teiba unboxing is somewhat diff to penguin's.
> 
> Ah so you are using 4PX as your forwarding agent eh? I use my best. It also "take cares of things" when it arrives hahaha!


 
  
 Tried just about every forwarding agents on Taobao actually, and 4PX is by far the most consistent in my experience.
  
  
 On unrelated news:
  
 I got into contact with Ostry regarding the so called mainland China vs. international version of KC08 - the situation is a bit more complicated than first thought. While there is a mainland China version of KC08 (those on Taobao), but there isn't just one international version. According to them, they are working to retune KC08 based on the local distributor's feedback to create regional KC08 that is best suited for that particular market. So potentially there will be more than one version of these so called international KC08 in the future.


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> @Joy Boy
> do you know if the Edifier P180 and H180 are the same driver? I would assume so...
> 
> I have to give the Hifiman ES100 credit for having way better bass extension than I thought. It just doesn't like hardware EQing. With software EQ into my Project Starlight rocking a RCA cleartop 12au7 it's very capable of excellent bass depth.







golov17 said:


> similar drivers with and without mic



Like sir.golov said, the difference is just "P" is mic versios of "H". It's same driver.

Btw, what is the difference of rose mojito and rose magenta?


----------



## ClieOS

joy boy said:


> Btw, what is the difference of rose mojito and rose magenta?




Besides that they both have two dynamics drivers and made by the same company? Not much.

p/s: it is called margarita, not magenta.


----------



## golov17

why Taobao price is higher than Aliexpress ??


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> why Taobao price is higher than Aliexpress ??


 
 O.O That is interesting，TB prices are usually cheaper than AE.

 Any thoughts @ClieOS?


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> O.O That is interesting，TB prices are usually cheaper than AE.
> 
> Any thoughts @ClieOS?


 
  
 Must be an error on the AE mobile app as I just checked on AE main site and it still said US$298.75. So grab it while you can?


----------



## golov17

it is not a mistake...


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> On the same day that I finished my MusicMaker Ting review.... I got something else in the mail:
> 
> 
> The *[COLOR=FF0000]Rose[/COLOR] [COLOR=0000FF]Mojito[/COLOR]*!!!!
> ...


some quick impressions and thoughts, Justin?


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> it is not a mistake...




Not a mistake, but probably an error.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> Not a mistake, but probably an error.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


>


 
 Now wait until the sale, then grab it! Hahahaha


----------



## satansmutt

Sometimes there is a big difference in prices between aliexpress web site and mobile app especially with the sale approaching. On the web site Tomahawks are £40 but on mobile app I bought them for just £26 and I've also noticed a difference in price for the rose mojitos


----------



## Joy Boy

clieos said:


> Besides that they both have two dynamics drivers and made by the same company? Not much.
> 
> p/s: it is called margarita, not magenta.



Thanx man 
Very excited with this bud. But i can't stand the price. It's almost twice ve zen v1


----------



## Joy Boy

Proudly present, Elibud Sabia. First bud from indonesia (ELi= Earbud Lovers Indonesia).
I already try the prototypes, it sounds so great!
Maybe best bud under $30 that i've ever tried (it's price around $10).
I heard that Sir golov17 will be sent as an honor member 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=887454728043228&id=880770205378347


----------



## golov17

joy boy said:


> Proudly present, Elibud Sabia. First bud from indonesia (ELi= Earbud Lovers Indonesia).
> I already try the prototypes, it sounds so great!
> Maybe best bud under $30 that i've ever tried (it's price around $10).
> I heard that Sir golov17 will be sent as an honor member
> ...


Hmm, interesting


----------



## AudioNewbi3

joy boy said:


> Proudly present, Elibud Sabia. First bud from indonesia (ELi= Earbud Lovers Indonesia).
> I already try the prototypes, it sounds so great!
> Maybe best bud under $30 that i've ever tried (it's price around $10).
> I heard that Sir golov17 will be sent as an honor member
> ...




After having a look at the pictures, the soundstage head inside of me is really intruigue. Can we purchase them internationally?


----------



## Joy Boy

audionewbi3 said:


> After having a look at the pictures, the soundstage head inside of me is really intruigue. Can we purchase them internationally?



I'll ask the builder. May be i'll suggest them to sell it via aliexpress too


----------



## ClieOS

joy boy said:


> I'll ask the builder. May be i'll suggest them to sell it via aliexpress too


 
  
 Aliexpress is really built for the Chinese as a gateway to international market. Better ask them to start from eBay.


----------



## Saoshyant

clieos said:


> Not a mistake, but probably an error.


 
 I'd guess you're correct.  It's a roughly 30% discount when using the mobile app, with the price dropping roughly another $15USD during the anniversary sale.


----------



## Joy Boy

clieos said:


> Aliexpress is really built for the Chinese as a gateway to international market. Better ask them to start from eBay.



Oh i see. And i already contact them. They said after launch, you could buy it via ebay or contact them via email (i'll give you their email later). You also can use paypal for transaction


----------



## AudioNewbi3

joy boy said:


> Oh i see. And i already contact them. They said after launch, you could buy it via ebay or contact them via email (i'll give you their email later). You also can use paypal for transaction


 
 great news! Can you kindly keep us updated mate?


----------



## Joy Boy

audionewbi3 said:


> great news! Can you kindly keep us updated mate?



Of course mate. They will launch it on early april. I'll update it after launching


----------



## leobigfield

clieos said:


> Must be an error on the AE mobile app as I just checked on AE main site and it still said US$298.75. So grab it while you can?




Mobile APP price are generally better than the site. My Tomahawk is on its way and cost $36 through the app! Also bought these earhooks for $9.90 

ROCK Original Stereo Bass earphone Headphones Metal handsfree Headset 3.5mm Earbuds For IPhone XIAOMI Samsung MP3 Player In ear
http://s.aliexpress.com/jAjM7Ff6
(from AliExpress Android)

And they will come with a free earbud . If it's at least a decent earbud it's ok. Too bad shipping from China takes usually more than 1 month


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> Mate, thanks for the review!
> 
> But after reading it, I think there are a few instances where you mixed up Tomahawk with Tings's or is that just me?


 

 You are 100% correct.  I re-read my review and I found a few times when I used Tomahawk instead of Ting.  Thank you for the heads up.  I have fixed any issues.
  
  
 Quote:


golov17 said:


> some quick impressions and thoughts, Justin?


  
 The *Rose Mojito *seems to have its own unique sound signature. 
  
 Overall quality is quite good.  I really need to spend more time with them to get a better feel.  But I like them.
  
  
 Quote:


clieos said:


> Must be an error on the AE mobile app as I just checked on AE main site and it still said US$298.75. So grab it while you can?


 
  
 Prices on the App are lower for a promo of their 6th Anniversary sale. 
  
 ..


----------



## AudioNewbi3

You are welcome mate!


----------



## vapman

Another day, another day the box from easy earphones isn't here... I'll hear the Tomahawks eventually!

And many thanks to BloodyPenguin i will soon be making my first review ever for these bad boys:



He refused to let me pay shipping but the stamp says exactly how much I should pay him to send these my way 

edit: Sorry PenguinWarrior for tagging you!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> Another day, another day the box from easy earphones isn't here... I'll hear the Tomahawks eventually!
> 
> And many thanks to @BloodyPenguin I will soon be making my first review ever for these bad boys:
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think you meant @BloodyPenguin, so I changed that for you.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I am looking forward to reading your FIRST review!! 
  
 --


----------



## vapman

bloodypenguin said:


> I think you meant @BloodyPenguin, so I changed that for you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The funny thing is I started typing BloodyPenguin and then went back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 crazy brain slips! i'll remind you when it's posted  and thanks again!


----------



## music4mhell

bloodypenguin said:


> clieos said:
> 
> 
> > Must be an error on the AE mobile app as I just checked on AE main site and it still said US$298.75. So grab it while you can?
> ...


How is the comfort ?
can you wear 1/2 hour straight ?

cause i sense it will be a bit uncomfortable from its design ?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

music4mhell said:


> How is the comfort ?
> can you wear 1/2 hour straight ?
> 
> cause i sense it will be a bit uncomfortable from its design ?




They do get a bit uncomfortable after about 30 minutes of use.

--


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> They do get a bit uncomfortable after about 30 minutes of use.
> 
> --


do you think, this justify their cost?


----------



## ClieOS

bloodypenguin said:


> They do get a bit uncomfortable after about 30 minutes of use.
> 
> --


 
  
 I can quite happily wear it for a much longer time.
  


golov17 said:


> do you think, this justify their cost?


 
  
 Do I think it is expensive? Yes. Will I pay for it if given another chance? Yes as well. While it is expensive for an earbud, I regularly sample IEM that is twice as expensive but not necessarily better sounding, So that is enough to justify the price. However, this is built on the assumption that you do enjoy a more neutral'ish and bright sound. I am just happen to be a Etymotic fan as well, so that works perfectly well for me.


----------



## Saoshyant

I suspect I won't be getting the Mojito, which is fine as I still like my HF5 for detailed listening. I'm just too much of a fan of a fun signature.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> I can quite happily wear it for a much longer time.
> 
> 
> Do I think it is expensive? Yes. Will I pay for it if given another chance? Yes as well. While it is expensive for an earbud, I regularly sample IEM that is twice as expensive but not necessarily better sounding, So that is enough to justify the price. However, this is built on the assumption that you do enjoy a more neutral'ish and bright sound. I am just happen to be a Etymotic fan as well, so that works perfectly well for me.


you've got Gramo One for comparison?


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> you've got Gramo One for comparison?


 
  
 It is still in shipping and probably won't arrive for another week or two.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> It is still in shipping and probably won't arrive for another week or two.


Well, my Cygnus also got stuck somewhere on the way to me, lol


----------



## vapman

Is Mojito uncomfortable for some people because it's bigger than most earbuds? just guessing from the photos, but that would be a plus for me.
  
 Similar to Etymotic sound signature would be amazing too. However I have really been taking to the Hifiman ES100 as a very neutral, Ety-like earbud. They are a few years old now and require a lot of power (I never keep my tube headphone amp turned below halfway with them!) but I have been finding they're my new go-to for reference & critical listening. I expect I may start using them instead of E100's for my recording and mastering purposes (when recording, I like to monitor with all different grades of headphones and speakers, so I know how my mix will sound with all levels of stereo gear)
  
 Something about E and the number 100.
  
 edit: If anyone can recommend me an earbud with a very similar sound signature to the ES100, please let me know. Mine are on their way out and I could buy a second set always but I'm hoping Hifiman will let me pay to send them in and get them fixed up. If they won't fix them, I can afford another ES100, not the end of the world, but I should probably wait for the Tomahawks to get here so I can try those out first.
  
 edit: Hifiman support got back to me REALLY quickly! Since these are well out of warranty I'll gladly be paying the $25 to get them repaired and sent back. The damn things sound so nice, it's a shame the left driver's been buzzy. At first I thought it couldn't deal with the bass I was giving it but then realized the right side was 100% fine and the left side was fine if i squeezed it in a weird way...


----------



## music4mhell

Why so Silent


----------



## yacobx

golov17 said:


> clieos said:
> 
> 
> > It is still in shipping and probably won't arrive for another week or two.
> ...


 
 That sucks man.


----------



## golov17

not terrible, zen2.0 always with me, lol


----------



## AudioNewbi3

I spy with my eyes, something white:

  

  

  
 The accessories that with this bud is laughable.....


----------



## kurtextrem

Finally got my Hiegi foams. They are a bit tighter around the Asura 2.0's, but that is great. Now they fit perfectly with foams (while with the original foams they don't really fit)


----------



## music4mhell

kurtextrem said:


> Finally got my Hiegi foams. They are a bit tighter around the Asura 2.0's, but that is great. Now they fit perfectly with foams (while with the original foams they don't really fit)


 
 Awesome, i have also ordered Heigi Foams, if it's tight then it will be awesome for my earbuds.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Man oh man, the sound from the Shozy for vocals to me is pure bliss!

 Although not as warm as the 320Ohm (Spreading melted butter across your eardrums), to me it some is more engaging, more life like (somehow like a veil have been lifted from the 320.
 Soundstage of the Cygnus is also imho "deep" instead of "wide". That is just me. 

 That is just an initial impression btw.


----------



## music4mhell

audionewbi3 said:


> Man oh man, the sound from the Shozy for vocals to me is pure bliss!
> 
> Although not as warm as the 320Ohm (Spreading melted butter across your eardrums), to me it some is more engaging, more life like (somehow like a veil have been lifted from the 320.
> Soundstage of the Cygnus is also imho "deep" instead of "wide". That is just me.
> ...


 
 You will end up listening to Cygnus more than any other earbud


----------



## supplehope

Just curious, Tomahawk or Cygnus, if you have the money for only either?


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Man oh man, the sound from the Shozy for vocals to me is pure bliss!
> 
> 
> Although not as warm as the 320Ohm (Spreading melted butter across your eardrums), to me it some is more engaging, more life like (somehow like a veil have been lifted from the 320.
> ...


----------



## Sylmar

Bought the Tomahawk yesterday, with that lowered price I couldn't resist. Can't wait.


----------



## ryanjsoo

sylmar said:


> Bought the Tomahawk yesterday, with that lowered price I couldn't resist. Can't wait.


 
  
 Where`s you buy them from, if you don`t mind me asking? Since Aud exchange rate is atrocious, they`re quite a bit more expensive to get in Australia.


----------



## golov17

ryanjsoo said:


> Where`s you buy them from, if you don`t mind me asking? Since Aud exchange rate is atrocious, they`re quite a bit more expensive to get in Australia.


----------



## Sylmar

ryanjsoo said:


> Where`s you buy them from, if you don`t mind me asking? Since Aud exchange rate is atrocious, they`re quite a bit more expensive to get in Australia.



Bought them from Aliexpress from the Netherlands for 33 euro's. Seemed a good deal to me but I probably would have bought them without a discount as well.  Bought through the mobile app by the way, but paid by PC.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

music4mhell said:


> You will end up listening to Cygnus more than any other earbud


 
  
 Nah, just had a listened to Joe Hisaishi Melodyphony, all I can say is, for ochestral I still prefer the DIY DUAL DRIVERS. They are just that good to me. The Cygnus to me lack the SS necessary to make ochestral pieces nice. Just my honest opinion though. 


supplehope said:


> Just curious, Tomahawk or Cygnus, if you have the money for only either?


 
 Depends on how many earbuds you have. IMHO if this your first bud, get the Tomahawks as they are "Omnivorous", in that any typre of music will sound good with them. 
 The Cygnus on the other hand is a specialized bud....to me at least.


----------



## fleasbaby

clieos said:


> This: http://world.taobao.com/item/37119460429.htm


 

 Hey ClieOS, any chance you know where to get those on AliExpress or somewhere like that? Am in the US.


----------



## golov17

fleasbaby said:


> Hey ClieOS, any chance you know where to get those on AliExpress or somewhere like that? Am in the US.


http://mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/37119460429.html


----------



## fleasbaby

golov17 said:


> http://mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/37119460429.html


 
  
 Thanks mate .
  
 A little worried by @ClieOS' description  now that I read it though. Apparently they aren't very bassy? Was hoping they would have some reach. Might pass.


----------



## Miyaichi

Actually there are two versions of the DIY Dual Driver. Which version is the preferred one? And can it keep up with the Blox TM7 or HisoundAudio Living in terms of soundstage? And what about the Zen 2.0?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

miyaichi said:


> Actually there are two versions of the DIY Dual Driver. Which version is the preferred one? And keep up with the Blox TM7 or HisoundAudio Living?


 
 I believe the difference between the 2 versions are just cable. 

 The black cable is apparently copper while the blue is silver plated copper. But maybe  @ClieOS can help you better.


----------



## Frederick Wang

audionewbi3 said:


> Nah, just had a listened to Joe Hisaishi Melodyphony, all I can say is, for ochestral I still prefer the DIY DUAL DRIVERS. They are just that good to me. The Cygnus to me lack the SS necessary to make ochestral pieces nice. Just my honest opinion though.
> Depends on how many earbuds you have. IMHO if this your first bud, get the Tomahawks as they are "Omnivorous", in that any typre of music will sound good with them.
> The Cygnus on the other hand is a specialized bud....to me at least.


 
 So how's Tomahawk's SS as opposed to that of Cygnus, is it a better choice for orchestral music?


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> I believe the difference between the 2 versions are just cable.
> 
> The black cable is apparently copper while the blue is silver plated copper. But maybe  @ClieOS can help you better.


 
  
 Actually the black cable should be Chinese made silver plated OFC. The blue cable is supposedly the so called 'goddess' cable. There are a couple of very well known name when it comes to cable in China, namely 'Furutech' cable, 'goddess' cable and 'heart of the sea' cable. But the fact is most of these so called famous cables might just be fake or regular cable that has its price jacked up. In situation like this, I'll usually go for the expensive one if the price difference isn't too big, but keep to the cheaper one is it is.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

frederick wang said:


> So how's Tomahawk's SS as opposed to that of Cygnus, is it a better choice for orchestral music?


 
 Oh by SS I mean sound stage and not sound signature mate. My bad.......On sound signature, I do not have enough experience nor the vocab required to describe them, but I will try anyway.

 The sound of the dual driver are very "dry" in that I find that they are the most neutral of my buds.

 The Tomahawks, to me feels a bit "warm" if compared to the DD's and sound stage is also not as wide as the DD's. Although, although the base is more prominent on the Tomahawks.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Actually the black cable should be Chinese made silver plated OFC. The blue cable is supposedly the so called 'goddess' cable. There are a couple of very well known name when it comes to cable in China, namely 'Furutech' cable, 'goddess' cable and 'heart of the sea' cable. But the fact is most of these so called famous cables might just be fake or regular cable that has its price jacked up. In situation like this, I'll usually go for the expensive one if the price difference isn't too big, but keep to the cheaper one is it is.


 
 Ah I see I see. I have always thought that normal cables are OFC while "Goddess, Heart of Ocean, Old River" are Silver plated haha


----------



## Frederick Wang

audionewbi3 said:


> Oh by SS I mean sound stage and not sound signature mate. My bad.......On sound signature, I do not have enough experience nor the vocab required to describe them, but I will try anyway.
> 
> The sound of the dual driver are very "dry" in that I find that they are the most neutral of my buds.
> 
> The Tomahawks, to me feels a bit "warm" if compared to the DD's and sound stage is also not as wide as the DD's. Although, although the base is more prominent on the Tomahawks.


 
 By SS I refered to Sound stage too mate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Actually that cleared my doubts. 
 I think I will give Rose Mojito a try, only less than 10 pairs left for grab on Taobao...


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> Ah I see I see. I have always thought that normal cables are OFC while "Goddess, Heart of Ocean, Old River" are Silver plated haha


 
  
 Cable has big profit in it (just as true in China as it is for the rest of the world), so snake oil / hyped up cable is a regular thing among the Chinese DIY cable seller as much as it is for the Western market. My policy is always to get the 'honest' cable (those that tell you what it is made of without adding any fancy name in front of it) rather than famous cable unless there price difference isn't that big. If the price difference is small, the general rule of thumb is the slightly more expensive cable usually does give you better build quality that is worth the difference. Even if not, you are still not losing out much.


----------



## fleasbaby

clieos said:


> Cable has big profit in it (just as true in China as it is for the rest of the world), so snake oil / hyped up cable is a regular thing among the Chinese DIY cable seller as much as it is for the Western market. My policy is always to get the 'honest' cable (those that tell you what it is made of without adding any fancy name in front of it) rather than famous cable unless there price difference isn't that big. If the price difference is small, the general rule of thumb is the slightly more expensive cable usually does give you better build quality that is worth the difference. Even if not, you are still not losing out much.


 

@ClieOS ...on the Dual Driver, you mention the bass doesn't reach very deeply. Is it similar to the Sunrise AS Feeling?


----------



## ClieOS

fleasbaby said:


> @ClieOS ...on the Dual Driver, you mention the bass doesn't reach very deeply. Is it similar to the Sunrise AS Feeling?


 
  
 Haven't listened to AS-Feeling for ages and I don't want to go through the storage. As far as DIY Dual Driver goes, it is really more of a neutral amount of bass so you don't get much of 'rumbling' body of bass even though it does reach down 20Hz. Think Etymotic here.


----------



## rggz

audionewbi3 said:


> Man oh man, the sound from the Shozy for vocals to me is pure bliss!
> 
> Although not as warm as the 320Ohm (Spreading melted butter across your eardrums), to me it some is more engaging, more life like (somehow like a veil have been lifted from the 320.
> Soundstage of the Cygnus is also imho "deep" instead of "wide". That is just me.
> ...


 

 Really nice! Generally when an earbud make me smile just after opening the package that is a good sign. I was reading just about Cygnus bass here and if they shine with vocals too I'll love them, atm I just listen rock/post/prog/fusion with earbuds, maybe they will fit very very well to my mini collection.


----------



## Danneq

frederick wang said:


> By SS I refered to Sound stage too mate
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Don't forget Tomahawks more neutral big brother Ting!


----------



## Miyaichi

Do you think the DIY Dual Driver will fit the purpose? I'm searching for a headphone for some Jazz and watching movies. I already got enough IEMs and headphones to cover other genres, but now I am looking for something more open with a great deep and wide sound stage. Imaging and instrument separation needs to be good for an immersive experience, so it shouldn't have a sound stage that is artificially wide compared to the depth. I would go for a TOTL Grado or a Sennheiser HD800, but much prefer to try my luck with earbuds first. The comfort of portability is just too compelling


----------



## goldenSHK

clieos said:


> Haven't listened to AS-Feeling for ages and I don't want to go through the storage. As far as DIY Dual Driver goes, it is really more of a neutral amount of bass so you don't get much of 'rumbling' body of bass even though it does reach down 20Hz. Think Etymotic here.


 
 Does the dual driver have more or less bass than the VE Monk? In terms of amount as well as clarity? Also, where would you place the Monk in the list of buds?


----------



## golov17

goldenshk said:


> Does the dual driver have more or less bass than the VE Monk? In terms of amount as well as clarity? Also, where would you place the Monk in the list of buds?



http://bbs.imp3.net/thread-20854-1-1.html


----------



## fleasbaby

golov17 said:


> http://mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/37119460429.html


 
  
 Dang. I like that service....but they charge quite a bit for the shipping....
  



clieos said:


> Haven't listened to AS-Feeling for ages and I don't want to go through the storage. As far as DIY Dual Driver goes, it is really more of a neutral amount of bass so you don't get much of 'rumbling' body of bass even though it does reach down 20Hz. Think Etymotic here.


 
  
 Well that's pretty promising...


----------



## vapman

How's everyone feeling about the Rose Mojito after a couple days with it now? I'm itching it buy a set!


----------



## leobigfield

audionewbi3 said:


> Nah, just had a listened to Joe Hisaishi Melodyphony, all I can say is, for ochestral I still prefer the DIY DUAL DRIVERS. They are just that good to me. The Cygnus to me lack the SS necessary to make ochestral pieces nice. Just my honest opinion though.
> Depends on how many earbuds you have. IMHO if this your first bud, get the Tomahawks as they are "Omnivorous", in that any typre of music will sound good with them.
> The Cygnus on the other hand is a specialized bud....to me at least.


 
  What are those DIY DUAL DRIVERS?
  
 Edit: Sorry the conversation wasn't update in my browser


----------



## vapman

Are there any direct Tomahawk to Cygnus comparisons?
  
 The Tomahawk is a killer but it's just ever slightly too bright for my tastes. With some EQ roll off I love it, but I'm also ridiculously treble sensitive.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

frederick wang said:


> By SS I refered to Sound stage too mate
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 According to sifu clieos, the Mojito is on another completely different level than the DD's, both in terms of SS and Micro Details. I think the Mojito's will wipe the floor using the DD's. 


clieos said:


> Cable has big profit in it (just as true in China as it is for the rest of the world), so snake oil / hyped up cable is a regular thing among the Chinese DIY cable seller as much as it is for the Western market. My policy is always to get the 'honest' cable (those that tell you what it is made of without adding any fancy name in front of it) rather than famous cable unless there price difference isn't that big. If the price difference is small, the general rule of thumb is the slightly more expensive cable usually does give you better build quality that is worth the difference. Even if not, you are still not losing out much.


 
  
 When you put it that way, it makes a lot of sense. I shall look out them so called "Goddess,Heart" cable sellers on TB. But I will purchase them, only if the price diff is not big. Thank-you once again for the tip sifu!


rggz said:


> Really nice! Generally when an earbud make me smile just after opening the package that is a good sign. I was reading just about Cygnus bass here and if they shine with vocals too I'll love them, atm I just listen rock/post/prog/fusion with earbuds, maybe they will fit very very well to my mini collection.


 
  
 Yup, to me at least. The Cygnus is by far the best bud for vocal in my collection, a close 2nd would be the SeaHf's.


miyaichi said:


> Do you think the DIY Dual Driver will fit the purpose? I'm searching for a headphone for some Jazz and watching movies. I already got enough IEMs and headphones to cover other genres, but now I am looking for something more open with a great deep and wide sound stage. Imaging and instrument separation needs to be good for an immersive experience, so it shouldn't have a sound stage that is artificially wide compared to the depth. I would go for a TOTL Grado or a Sennheiser HD800, but much prefer to try my luck with earbuds first. The comfort of portability is just too compelling


 
 Personally, I do not use my DD's that much for Jazz, this is because I feel that it gives me a feeling of being too "cold". But sometimes I do use the DD's for Vocal Jazz....sometimes. Mainly for Vocal Jazz, I use my SeaHf 320Ohms or maybe the Cygnus, once I have burned them in enough.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

leobigfield said:


> What are those DIY DUAL DRIVERS?


 
 mate it is just a few posts up.
http://mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/37119460429.html


----------



## leobigfield

leobigfield said:


> What are those DIY DUAL DRIVERS?
> 
> Edit: Sorry the conversation wasn't update in my browser


 
  
  


audionewbi3 said:


> mate it is just a few posts up.
> http://mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/37119460429.html


 
  
 Damn Shockwave Flash plug-in!


----------



## vapman

leobigfield said:


> Damn Shockwave Flash plug-in!


 

 I can't be the only one who's shocked Flash hasn't been dead for years now. I have no idea what keeps it going.
  
 I really see why you guys love the Tomahawk so much. I'm not a fan of sparkle in my sound signature though, so keep that in mind of you do or don't like sparkle. It's not too much though, they're very balanced.


----------



## ClieOS

goldenshk said:


> Does the dual driver have more or less bass than the VE Monk? In terms of amount as well as clarity? Also, where would you place the Monk in the list of buds?


 
  
 Noticeably less, more so in quantity than in quality.
  


clieos said:


> I do have a pair of Monk. Haven't really give it a lot of thought regarding raking but I'll say, probably somewhere in the upper tier of 'The Good'.


----------



## lescanadiens

Sorry if this had been asked before.
 Just wondering of anybody owned / compared Yuin PK1 vs Zen 1.0 / 2.0
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> Are there any direct Tomahawk to Cygnus comparisons?
> 
> The Tomahawk is a killer but it's just ever slightly too bright for my tastes. With some EQ roll off I love it, but I'm also ridiculously treble sensitive.


 


 Are you using full foams? I'm a bit treble sensitive as well and changing from donut to full foams made a lot of difference.


----------



## Frederick Wang

Guys, mojito is on sale NOW on aliexpress.

It's 194.19usd and there is a 7usd coupon available.

Anyone in California bought stuff from aliexpess, do you have to pay tax in addition to that price?


----------



## Frederick Wang

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danneq View Post

Don't forget Tomahawks more neutral big brother Ting!


---------

Yep, Ting is pretty tempting too, but the supply is plenty, while mojito is disappearing...

I just cannot pass the chance to see what the heck all the hype is really about.


----------



## music4mhell

I will wait for Rose Mojito reviews from different persons, rather than spending almost $200 just on the face value.


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> I will wait for Rose Mojito reviews from different persons, rather than spending almost $200 just on the face value.


 


http://penonaudio.com/Earphones/earbuds/Celsus-Gramo-One


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I will wait for Rose Mojito reviews from different persons, rather than spending almost $200 just on the face value.
> ...


 
 He he, that's the reason i have not bought the Gramo yet


----------



## Raketen

Somoene had a used pair for 125 last week... I almost grabbed but decided I need to clean out my collection first... missed out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But last thing I need is another pair of headphones in my pile so maybe I secretly won too


----------



## Miyaichi

audionewbi3 said:


> Personally, I do not use my DD's that much for Jazz, this is because I feel that it gives me a feeling of being too "cold". But sometimes I do use the DD's for Vocal Jazz....sometimes. Mainly for Vocal Jazz, I use my SeaHf 320Ohms or maybe the Cygnus, once I have burned them in enough


 
  
 Do you think that it can keep up with the sound stage which I need for the cinematic experience? I'm all out for some nice sound stage without recessed mids


----------



## golov17

http://s.aliexpress.com/R7B7vM7Z
Wow! Today Shozy Cygnus only for $71,98


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> Are you using full foams? I'm a bit treble sensitive as well and changing from donut to full foams made a lot of difference.


 

 Full foams.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

miyaichi said:


> Do you think that it can keep up with the sound stage which I need for the cinematic experience? I'm all out for some nice sound stage without recessed mids


 
 I would not know, as I have never used my buds other than for the purpose of listening to music. I am sorry.


----------



## supplehope

Spoiler: My first impressions.



Talking about the Ostry KC08, after hearing them with at least 100 hours of burn in (for the specific ones), here's my honest impressions about them as a total earbuds noob:
  
 Fit: Used both the standard and the "fancy" versions of foams. Both fit fine for my picky ears and the "fancy" foam does sound less bright and more engaging yet clear, in my experience. Maybe Ostry can sell packs of the "fancy" foams on Taobao somehow? Sticking with the standard foams myself for now, anyways.
  
 Gears used: Fiio X1 --> Ibasso D12, Sony ZX1.
 Pretty easy to drive, but as someone who listen to loud music as well, the ZX1 (I know its problems) is not enough even at max volume. I recommend pairing the KC08 with a setup that is slightly towards the warm side if you really want the KC08 to really show what they are capable of.
  
 Bass: Not the best I have heard, but at least the mids and the lows are presented pretty nicely. Personally, it could have extended much more, but it is pretty fun otherwise, in my opinion.
  
 Mids: From what I have read about earbuds like VE Monk, I can see why the KC08 are not as popular as I honestly think they should be. For me, the mids of these are more of slightly bright and reference type rather than the typical warm and engaging type that most would have enjoyed, unfortunately. I personally like the mids of the KC08 though, as they perform extremely well with complex music like metal, in my opinion. Despite whatever I actually said about the mids, the vocals are very engaging though, for me at least.
  
 High: Beautiful and well-extended for my preferences, but how good can they sound also depends on the recordings as well, in my opinion. Pay attention, cymbals lovers.
  
 Soundstage: For me and as someone who doesn't really care about soundstage and imaging on in-ears, they are good enough. From what I have read though, I am sure there are some who think that they could have extended as earbuds though.
  
 Overall, the KC08 somehow reminded me of the Stax SR009 (total exaggeration, but just something I can refer to) with much dryer mids and more fun but still not-bleeded bass while have a similar presentation otherwise. I personally believe that these will sound better with more listening. For those who like a pair of earbuds that does most genres just well, these will be it. Unfortunately, stay away if you ever like engaging mids and incredible soundstage and imaging, even as a big Ostry fan myself, I admit.
  
 Back to the music and I hope that my brief impressions of the KC08 helped a little for those who wants to get a pair of them.
  
 PS: The KC08 are the standard, or the Mainland version as some of you prefered.


  
 Some update about my own KC08. Using them on the Microstreamer, now the bass is some of the most fleshed out ones I have heard. I can actually hear the emphasis quite well even compared to some of the best in-ears that I have heard of (in terms of bass emphasis) in the past two years. Still, the sub-bass is no monster, but still pretty good coming from earbuds. Like I've said, it's still acceptable for what the KC08 is all about - recreating a proper studio recording rather than giving the feel of a live concert, for me at least.
  
 Not justifying my purchase here, but personally, I really liking my mainland KC08 (not more than the music in the first place, anyway), regardless of Tai (ClieOS) said about other versions of them on the works.
  
 Below are some of my own vague experiences of the genres that I have used the KC08 with:
  
 Ideal: Metal (the genre to use them with in my opinion, but the guitars can sound too flat and dry for my taste as well depending on the recordings), post-rock, mathcore, male and female vocals (anime and vocaloid fans *may *love the KC08 if they don't mind dry mids), acoustics, classical etc... Whatever that appeals the detail freaks, in my opinion.
  
 Not ideal: Electronics, hip-hop, noise/drone/ambient (not enough mids to flesh out the atmosphere that those genres suppose to give). Music that are really mid-focused, in general.
  
 Now back to the music once again...


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/R7B7vM7Z
> Wow! Today Shozy Cygnus only for $71,98


 

 Hmm.... How is the treble compared to asura 2.0 or tomahawk?
 Is it bright?
 hoping for something slightly warmer than those two to complement them.


----------



## golov17

Also not Arrived my Cygnus..


----------



## vapman

Darn! Someone here must own a Cygnus.


----------



## Saoshyant

Can someone do me a favor and link some recommended earbud covers?  I'm noticing I'm just about out, and I really don't want to be caught unprepared the next time an earbud-buying bug bites me.  I think I've read Heigi or something like that is recommended, but can't quite remember...


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> Can someone do me a favor and link some recommended earbud covers?  I'm noticing I'm just about out, and I really don't want to be caught unprepared the next time an earbud-buying bug bites me.  I think I've read Heigi or something like that is recommended, but can't quite remember...


 

 If full cover ones are okay with you, they're dirt cheap. I got something like 25 or 50 pairs on ebay from Turkey for $2.50 shipped or thereabouts (was the cheapest with shipping on ebay, china included?)
  
 The donut style ones are Heigi or whatever it's called.


----------



## music4mhell

saoshyant said:


> Can someone do me a favor and link some recommended earbud covers?  I'm noticing I'm just about out, and I really don't want to be caught unprepared the next time an earbud-buying bug bites me.  I think I've read Heigi or something like that is recommended, but can't quite remember...




http://penonaudio.com/Hiegi-White-Foam-Cushions

i have orered this one, same is available on aliexpress also


----------



## Saoshyant

Seems Amazon Prime carries Hiegi as both full and donuts, so I can wait and order when I need.


----------



## Sylmar

I've ordered these silicone ones from AliExpress, to try them out instead of foam.
  
 http://nl.aliexpress.com/item/3-pairs-Universal-Silicone-Replacement-Tips-Earbuds-for-Headphone-Earphone/32598379873.html


----------



## Danneq

I was soooooo close to pulling the trigger on Rose Mojito even if I wasn't too crazy about the description of the sound. But I resisted the temptation. Now I feel like rewarding myself for being so good. :tongue_smile:

Anyway, you can get them for $187 in total if you use the Ali express app. You can get a $7 coupon to add to the app price of $194.


----------



## vapman

I'm still deciding if it'll be the cygnus or the mojito today...


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> I'm still deciding if it'll be the cygnus or the mojito today...




You can buy the Mojitos and sell them to me second hand if you don't like them. :tongue_smile:


----------



## goldenSHK

vapman said:


> I'm still deciding if it'll be the cygnus or the mojito today...


 
 Is the Cygnus on sale today like the Mojitos and Tomahawks?


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> You can buy the Mojitos and sell them to me second hand if you don't like them. :tongue_smile:




Ah I misunderstood your post and thought you bought some!

I'm still deciding...


----------



## vapman

Haha, well I went and bought the Mojitos, cause I sold an amp today 

Thanks Danneq for saving me that $7!

Using the aliexpress app was a nightmare on a blackberry - a little surprised I actually managed to place my order, haha!

I'll definitely post my thoughts when they arrive!


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> Haha, well I went and bought the Mojitos, cause I sold an amp today
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Looking forward to your impressions. After selling off some earbuds I bought a bunch of stuff: Hiegi foams, a custom silver plated copper cable for my Sennheiser HD25, Music Maker Ting & Shozy Cygnus. So I have done my head fi-spending for this month. I also managed to track down a relatively cheap second hand pair of Astrotec Lyra, non modded, that I should receive in the beginning of next week.

 Plus the Yuin PK1 that I bought on Massdrop about 1 month ago has finally been sent.

 So right now I've got 4 earbuds to look forward to!

 Hoping to be able to buy Ostry KC08, Astrotec Lyra6 (earhook version with slightly modified sound compared to hook less Lyra), Dunu Alpha 1 + some Dark Horse Audio earbuds off Ali Express in the upcoming months.


----------



## vapman

I'm going to be dying for the cygnus comparisons. Almost got one but the non sale price of the cygnus is a lot more agreeable than that o the Mojito.


----------



## fleasbaby

vapman said:


> I'm going to be dying for the cygnus comparisons. Almost got one but the non sale price of the cygnus is a lot more agreeable than that o the Mojito.


 

 I am waaaaaiiiiitiiiing for my Cygnus and Tomahawks. *sigh*
  
 Hoping today will be the day they show up. Looking forward to comparing them to the VE Zen Asura 2.0, VE Zen 2.0 and 1.0, the Monk, the Blox M2C, Blox BE3 and maybe the Yuin PK3. Haven't been able to listen to the PK3 for a while. Too spoiled with the other buds...


----------



## vapman

fleasbaby said:


> I am waaaaaiiiiitiiiing for my Cygnus and Tomahawks. *sigh*
> 
> Hoping today will be the day they show up. Looking forward to comparing them to the VE Zen Asura 2.0, VE Zen 2.0 and 1.0, the Monk, the Blox M2C, Blox BE3 and maybe the Yuin PK3. Haven't been able to listen to the PK3 for a while. Too spoiled with the other buds...


 

 There's so many good buds out there. At this point I'm just so happy that earbuds are in again that I'm buying everything that ends up on the hype train and inevitably selling off most of it later...


----------



## yacobx

vapman said:


> Darn! Someone here must own a Cygnus.




I have mine, what's the question?


----------



## vapman

yacobx said:


> I have mine, what's the question?


 

 1. Is the cable stiff?
  
 2. Do you have any other earbuds like Tomahawk, Monk, Asura, Zen, etc.... just curious how it compares in terms of brightness/warmth.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> 1. Is the cable stiff?
> 
> 2. Do you have any other earbuds like Tomahawk, Monk, Asura, Zen, etc.... just curious how it compares in terms of brightness/warmth.


 
 1) Cynus Cable is as soft as soft served ice-cream. I suspect they somehow use the same cable as in the SeaHf earbuds. But the SeaHf cables are just a wee bit softer.
  
 2) I have the Tomahawks. And to me, The Cygnus is not warmer than the Tomahawks. I would say the Tomahawks is actually warmer than the Cygnus. Soundstage wise, Tomahawks are "wide" where as Cygnus are "deep".
  
 Don't take my word for it. As my IGN suggest, I am still a newb. The above are just my impressions.

 *Note: If you want a warm ud, try looking at SeaHf or G400 I guess.


----------



## yacobx

vapman said:


> yacobx said:
> 
> 
> > I have mine, what's the question?
> ...




Cable is soft and beautiful right now. 

It's more of a tie between the asura and Cygnus. It's not in the zen league. With the Cygnus is more of a all arounder bc I can play with foams and change to the sig I want also it's not dependent on an amp also. The asura without foams is amazing but I don't think it does well on my iPhone or when I put foams on it. If I had to choose between the Cygnus or asura I would choose Cygnus. On the other hand if I didn't have the zen I would save up and skip both asura and Cygnus and just get the zen if I had a solid potable rig. 

Ps Cygnus has smaller ear peices so with foam it fits really comfortable unlike the VE buds.

I would highly recommend the Cygnus to anyone it's a limited edition and it a great part of my collection.

Edit:

I have monk asura 2 zen 2 Cygnus 

asura does better with mids and highs but bc I can't use foams on it the bottom is lost.


----------



## rymd

I can throw in my 2 pennies worth on the Cygnus. I've had mine for the past couple of days and I'm really diggin the sound. It's very balanced with a smooth upper end that's not too rolled off, and wonderful mids. Vocals are just beautiful, with almost no sibilance whatsoever. So sound signature wise, I'd slot it in between my OMX980 and Zen 1/Zen 2. Not as bright or thin as the OMX980 and not as thick or warm as the VE buds.
  
 It's not as technically competent as either of my MX980/Zen 1/Zen 2 but it's also not that far behind, which is understandable for the price.
  
 Bass - rolls off just a bit too early. Similar extension to the Zen 2 and OMX980 but not quite as good quality wise. No comparison at all to the Zen 1, which has the best bass I've heard in an earbud by far.
 Mids - the star of the show. Makes the OMX980 mids sound thin and the Zen 2 sound veiled. However, the quality still lacks compared to the other three buds. I'd say it's close to the OMX980, but a good bit behind the Zen 1/2.
 Highs - just slightly rolled off and not as sparkly as the MX980. But moreso than the Zen's. The quantity is perfect to me but again, highs are still better on the other earbuds.
 Soundstage/separation - the weakest point IMO. Soundstage feels very squashed and 2 dimensional. MX980, Zen 1, Zen 2 all have more depth and width. Also noticeably worse/fuzzier instrument separation than the other three, especially compared to the Zen 2. AudioNewbi3 and whoever else said it were bang on. I wouldn't pick up the Cygnus for live/acoustic kinda music.
  
 In summary: I think the Cygnus is a fantastic value for the price. I'm certainly enjoying it more than my MX980, and just as much as my Zen 1/2 (at least for now with new toy syndrome 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). Build quality is solid and I'm really happy to see it in the smaller Yuin shell, which I find extremely comfortable. Only problem is that the accessories are terrible! Especially the included doughnut foams, which drive the bass off a cliff. Swap them out to full foams (I like the Zen 2's) asap.


----------



## music4mhell

rymd said:


> I can throw in my 2 pennies worth on the Cygnus. I've had mine for the past couple of days and I'm really diggin the sound. It's very balanced with a smooth upper end that's not too rolled off, and wonderful mids. Vocals are just beautiful, with almost no sibilance whatsoever. So sound signature wise, I'd slot it in between my OMX980 and Zen 1/Zen 2. Not as bright or thin as the OMX980 and not as thick or warm as the VE buds.
> 
> It's not as technically competent as either of my MX980/Zen 1/Zen 2 but it's also not that far behind, which is understandable for the price.
> 
> ...


 
 Very nicely explained  You can be a good writer.
 I am waiting for my Hiegi Foams, let see how cygnus performs with those foams, i feel the foam type and quality decides almost 30% of SQ of any earphone


----------



## golov17

Also, I heard that Shozy are experimenting with a new cable for the Cygnus, not to be verdant. Maybe we will know more something, soon


----------



## AudioNewbi3

rymd said:


> I can throw in my 2 pennies worth on the Cygnus. I've had mine for the past couple of days and I'm really diggin the sound. It's very balanced with a smooth upper end that's not too rolled off, and wonderful mids. Vocals are just beautiful, with almost no sibilance whatsoever. So sound signature wise, I'd slot it in between my OMX980 and Zen 1/Zen 2. Not as bright or thin as the OMX980 and not as thick or warm as the VE buds.
> 
> It's not as technically competent as either of my MX980/Zen 1/Zen 2 but it's also not that far behind, which is understandable for the price.
> 
> ...


 
 Do you use full foams with your Cygnus?

 Currently I am in love with hole foams!


----------



## yacobx

Anyone got a zen 1 forsale?


----------



## RedJohn456

yacobx said:


> Anyone got a zen 1 forsale?


 

 how much you willing to pay?
  
 JK I'm never parting with mine, will have to grab it from my cold dead hands lol.   
  
 Keep an eye on the F/S, they pop up time to time.


----------



## yacobx

redjohn456 said:


> yacobx said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone got a zen 1 forsale?
> ...


 
 Ouch! lol
  
 yeah ive been looking but I have had no luck


----------



## stilleh

I´ve got a pair of Cygnus on the way too... now the wait begins...


----------



## knives

I cant decide between DK-JIN, MrZ Tomahawk and Shozy Cygnus.
 MrZ Tomahawk is really cheap right now on aliexpres, probably is the best bang for buck.


----------



## yacobx

golov17 said:


> Also, I heard that Shozy are experimenting with a new cable for the Cygnus, not to be verdant. Maybe we will know more something, soon




They should offer a massive discount to us that bought the green cable.


----------



## klove4252

knives said:


> I cant decide between DK-JIN, MrZ Tomahawk and Shozy Cygnus.
> MrZ Tomahawk is really cheap right now on aliexpres, probably is the best bang for buck.


 
 I haven't heard the DK, but I am a big fan of both the Tomahawk and the Cygnus. I prefer the Cygnus, but that is really just a personal preference. With the same, the Tomahawk is probably the better value out of the two.


----------



## vapman

klove4252 said:


> I haven't heard the DK, but I am a big fan of both the Tomahawk and the Cygnus. I prefer the Cygnus, but that is really just a personal preference. With the same, the Tomahawk is probably the better value out of the two.




Do you amp? I find I actually prefer tomahawk directly from my DAP MORE than amped which I can not say for any of my other headphones.

I'm curious if the cygnus scales up with better amps like the VE buds or if they're pretty similar thru anything like tomahawk.


----------



## rymd

audionewbi3 said:


> Do you use full foams with your Cygnus?
> 
> Currently I am in love with hole foams!


 
 yep, using the Zen 2.0 full foams. Doughnut foams are alright but they don't give the same bass extension as the thick full foams.
  
 @vapman the Cygnus is incredibly efficient so I doubt it. So efficient I can barely use them with my desktop DAC/amps even on low gain. Gotta turn the pots all the way down, possibly into channel imbalance range.


----------



## vapman

yacobx said:


> They should offer a massive discount to us that bought the green cable.


 

 Is it weird that I want one with a green cable?
  
 Anyone who doesn't like their green cable Cygnus can feel free to PM me


----------



## AudioNewbi3

knives said:


> I cant decide between DK-JIN, MrZ Tomahawk and Shozy Cygnus.
> MrZ Tomahawk is really cheap right now on aliexpres, probably is the best bang for buck.


 
  
 If it is your first bud, go with the Tomahawks IMHO. The Cygnus as I have previously mention is not as versatile as the hawks, in my opinion.


vapman said:


> Is it weird that I want one with a green cable?
> 
> Anyone who doesn't like their green cable Cygnus can feel free to PM me


 
 Green is good. Plus is does not affect sound quality. My SeaHf is going Green now


----------



## golov17

tomorrow VE will present us something interesting ... wait


----------



## klove4252

golov17 said:


> tomorrow VE will present us something interesting ... wait


 
 I'm officially excited now. Today is a good day. My PK2 from Massdrop came in, and my ZMF Omni came in as well. Then, this news was just the icing on the cake.


----------



## golov17




----------



## leobigfield

golov17 said:


>




VE CLAN??? Count me in!!!


----------



## golov17




----------



## jrazmar

OMG! What is that thing??? Getting excited now.


----------



## leobigfield

The ve monk inscription in retro-gaming stile is awesome!


----------



## gattari

Only a different design?


----------



## yacobx

golov17 said:


>




Whoa!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


>




Same sound sig as the old monk?


----------



## music4mhell

When they will release the Nirvana


----------



## yacobx

music4mhell said:


> When they will release the Nirvana


 
 i think lee joked 2017


----------



## Danneq

This looks interesting...


----------



## Saoshyant

danneq said:


> This looks interesting...


 
 I don't even know what to think about that...


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> This looks interesting...


OMG


----------



## Saoshyant

Considering the Aliexpress sale going, can anyone recommend an earbud with microphone?  My current one is Marshall Minor, and I occasionally have some comfort issues due to the strange design.


----------



## ryanjsoo

saoshyant said:


> Considering the Aliexpress sale going, can anyone recommend an earbud with microphone?  My current one is Marshall Minor, and I occasionally have some comfort issues due to the strange design.


 
  
 Probably not all of them, but these are the standouts:
  
 - Edifier h180, 185 and 190 all have a mic/remote model
 - Fiio EM3, all units have a one button remote and mic
 - Baldoor E100a, the "a" model has a mic and 3 button android remote


----------



## golov17

ryanjsoo said:


> Probably not all of them, but these are the standouts:
> 
> - Edifier h180, 185 and 190 all have a mic/remote model
> - Fiio EM3, al unitsl have a one button remote and mic
> - Baldoor E100a, the "a" model has a mic and 3 button android remote


+100


----------



## kurtextrem

Or the Monk with a mic... but it's gone forever. I have it, though


----------



## Saoshyant

golov17 said:


> +100




Sir, which Edifier would you recommend?

Also, does anyone have any thoughts on this earbud? http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32376155736.html


----------



## golov17

DZAT not interested, I love the classic shape in ear buds, and to recommend from Edifiers, it depends on whether how you prefer the sound sig


----------



## Saoshyant

golov17 said:


> DZAT not interested, I love the classic shape in ear buds, and to recommend from Edifiers, it depends on whether how you prefer the sound sig




I tend to prefer a fun sound sig, so a little boost in bass.


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> I tend to prefer a fun sound sig, so a little boost in bass.


Edifier h185p


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Listening to music does NOT make things easier to understand......*sobs*


----------



## To.M

capitalism vs socialism, well as a person living in the Central Europe I know a thing or two from my own experience good luck with studying!


----------



## fleasbaby

ts simple, one offers financial freedom in a repressive environment, and the other offers financial repression in a free environment.Quote: 





audionewbi3 said:


> Listening to music does NOT make things easier to understand......*sobs*


 
  
 Its simple, one offers financial freedom in a repressive environment, and the other offers financial repression in a free environment.
  


to.m said:


> capitalism vs socialism, well as a person living in the Central Europe I know a thing or two from my own experience good luck with studying!


 
  
 That said....you probably know that in practice (i.e.: when run by humans) its more like financial repression in a repressive environment and financial repression in a free environment...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

to.m said:


> capitalism vs socialism, well as a person living in the Central Europe I know a thing or two from my own experience good luck with studying!


 
  
  


fleasbaby said:


> Its simple, one offers financial freedom in a repressive environment, and the other offers financial repression in a free environment.
> 
> 
> That said....you probably know that in practice (i.e.: when run by humans) its more like financial repression in a repressive environment and financial repression in a free environment...


 
  
  
 Both look bleak................very bleak


----------



## endia

hi,
 i'm using yuin pk1 for years at work but recently i had more fun with monks..
 but missing pk1's resolution, detail and especially soundstage..
 trying to decide between tomahawk and diy dual driver, how do you compare them?
 thanks in advance..


----------



## golov17

endia said:


> hi,
> i'm using yuin pk1 for years at work but recently i had more fun with monks..
> but missing pk1's resolution, detail and especially soundstage..
> trying to decide between tomahawk and diy dual driver, how do you compare them?
> thanks in advance..


https://m.facebook.com/groups/404097262992260?view=permalink&id=998526820215965&ref=m_notif%C2%ACif_t=group_activity%C2%ACif_id=1459412907212586


----------



## fleasbaby

audionewbi3 said:


> Both look bleak................very bleak


 

 Well, only if you let financial matters weigh you down. Sometimes the best things in life are indeed free, or damn cheap...like a pair of VE Monks (see that swing back to being on topic right there? )


----------



## AudioNewbi3

endia said:


> hi,
> i'm using yuin pk1 for years at work but recently i had more fun with monks..
> but missing pk1's resolution, detail and especially soundstage..
> trying to decide between tomahawk and diy dual driver, how do you compare them?
> thanks in advance..


 
 Dual Driver
  
 Good:
 More Highs
 Micro Details
 Wide soundstage
  
 Bad:
 Very lean bass
 Not very versatile
  
 Tomahawks:

 Jack of all trade, master of none

 My opinion


----------



## AudioNewbi3

fleasbaby said:


> Well, only if you let financial matters weigh you down. Sometimes the best things in life are indeed free, or damn cheap...like a pair of VE Monks (see that swing back to being on topic right there? )


 
 I see what you did there mate!


----------



## Joy Boy

Anyone got info? They seem interesting. I would like to try at least 1 of them. And who knows if it's as good as blox or at least dx.v-, right? 

https://m.facebook.com/GoodSoundGG/photos/a.635894236522412.1073741898.409495712495600/639907752787727/?type=3


----------



## endia

golov17 said:


> https://m.facebook.com/groups/404097262992260?view=permalink&id=998526820215965&ref=m_notif%C2%ACif_t=group_activity%C2%ACif_id=1459412907212586




thanks mate but I have no fb account unfortunately.. any chance for a screenshot?




audionewbi3 said:


> Dual Driver
> 
> Good:
> More Highs
> ...




so, there is not easy answer for me.. thanks a lot..


----------



## golov17

Spoiler


----------



## Saoshyant

Sadly @endia there are few easy answers in this hobby.  I mean heck, a Beats headphone is on the Innerfidelity Wall of Fame still, as is a Skullcandy headphone, and I respect Tyll's opinion highly.  Even with the best of IEMs and headphones, very experienced people will disagree on which ones are worth getting.  As with many things in life, everything comes down to personal preference, and nobody has your ears.  So all you can do is take a chance and hope it turns out well.  And if it doesn't, you can give it away, sell it, or give it some time to see if it grows on you.


----------



## endia

golov17, thank you very much for screenshots, will consider them..

Saoshyant, that is the only way unfortunately in this hobby but it's worth to all expense. thank you.


----------



## golov17

endia said:


> golov17, thank you very much for screenshots, will consider them..
> 
> Saoshyant, that is the only way unfortunately in this hobby but it's worth to all expense. thank you.


----------



## music4mhell

Any New Earbuds guy 
 Got the salary ..lol  Let me spend my money at least on one earbud this month..
  
 Any suggestions ? (Except Rose Mojito, Gramo One & Astrotec Lyra)
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> Any New Earbuds guy
> Got the salary ..lol  Let me spend my money at least on one earbud this month..
> 
> Any suggestions ? (Except Rose Mojito, Gramo One & Astrotec Lyra)
> ...


Zen2.0, Shozy Cygnus, Asura2.0, Tomahawk, Ting


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Any New Earbuds guy
> ...


 
 Already bought all of them  Except Asura.


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> Already bought all of them  Except Asura.


Good man


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Already bought all of them
> ...


 
 Buddy which earbud is best for Bass + Mid, even if there is no Highs, i am ok with it.
 Any suggestions from your such vast and long experience


----------



## golov17

Try Remax RM303, Ubiquo-Ucotech es903,1003 or 1103 80 Ohm

https://m.facebook.com/goUCT/


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> Any New Earbuds guy
> Got the salary ..lol  Let me spend my money at least on one earbud this month..
> 
> Any suggestions ? (Except Rose Mojito, Gramo One & Astrotec Lyra)
> ...


 


Tingo TC200 (about $34 when using the Ali express app)
  
Dark Horse ES-E2 ($45 when using the Ali express app)
  
Dark Horse ES-E4 ($39.50 when using the Ali express app)
  
DK-Jin with copper colored cable ($50.60 when using the Ali express app)
  
 I'm mostly curious about the two Dark Horse earbuds. DK-Jin was pretty good technically, but not my type of sound with too small soundstage. Very upfront and energetic presentation, though.

 Tingo seems to be okay. I've owned two Tingo and TC100 was okay. Still, I sold it...


----------



## emusic13

music4mhell said:


> Any New Earbuds guy
> Got the salary ..lol  Let me spend my money at least on one earbud this month..
> 
> Any suggestions ? (Except Rose Mojito, Gramo One & Astrotec Lyra)
> ...




You know you want the Gramos though


----------



## AudioNewbi3

joy boy said:


> Anyone got info? They seem interesting. I would like to try at least 1 of them. And who knows if it's as good as blox or at least dx.v-, right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Does the seller even do international shipping in the first place?


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> Try Remax RM303, Ubiquo-Ucotech es903,1003 or 1103 80 Ohm
> 
> https://m.facebook.com/goUCT/


 
 Could you please share any link from Aliexpress ? Please


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> Could you please share any link from Aliexpress ? Please


nope, Ucotech only g-market in Korea, sorry 
But http://s.aliexpress.com/vyUj6vIf


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Any New Earbuds guy
> ...


 
 Thanks a lot for your suggestions, i have already ordered Dark Horse 400 Ohms model. 
 I am really intersted in Tingo TC200, i have Tingo TG-38S, could you please share how TC100 is different from TG-38S.
 DK Jin has smaller sound stage, so i will skip it. I will try this Tingo TC200


----------



## emusic13

Sennheiser mx90 are pretty good from what I remember. Don't see them too much now though


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> Thanks a lot for your suggestions, i have already ordered Dark Horse 400 Ohms model.
> I am really intersted in Tingo TC200, i have Tingo TG-38S, could you please share how TC100 is different from TG-38S.
> DK Jin has smaller sound stage, so i will skip it. I will try this Tingo TC200


 


 I remember that I didn't like TG-38S very much. Much too bright. TC100 had better balance between lows, mids & highs. It was a bit thin sounding, though. Something like Monk easily beat it.

 TC200 is probably better than TC100, though.


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks a lot for your suggestions, i have already ordered Dark Horse 400 Ohms model.
> ...


 
 Ohk then, Tingo TC200 is my this month's earbud


----------



## yacobx

music4mhell said:


> danneq said:
> 
> 
> > music4mhell said:
> ...


 
 what is this Tingo AIR>>>??????


----------



## AudioNewbi3

yacobx said:


> what is this Tingo AIR>>>??????


 
 创新AIR = CREATIVE ARUNA AIR


----------



## WillTirta

Hey guys.. i have come back with some impression of dk jin.. with copper cable.. i think it is good in detail, bass is there but not much.. this earbud in my opinion focused more on vocal.. the minus is soundstage...it doesnt have wide soudstage which i prefer more.. so i for sometimes move my earbud to lyra6..

LYRA6..MAN..This earbud is dope! Wide soundstage.. good clarity, alittle warm, and for my ear.. it has my best portion of bass.. lol (it is subjective though..)

Ps: now focusing on burning lyra6..
So far my favourite earbud..


----------



## music4mhell

willtirta said:


> Hey guys.. i have come back with some impression of dk jin.. with copper cable.. i think it is good in detail, bass is there but not much.. this earbud in my opinion focused more on vocal.. the minus is soundstage...it doesnt have wide soudstage which i prefer more.. so i for sometimes move my earbud to lyra6..
> 
> LYRA6..MAN..This earbud is dope! Wide soundstage.. good clarity, alittle warm, and for my ear.. it has my best portion of bass.. lol (it is subjective though..)
> 
> ...


ohhh no..now i hv to check out lyra then..

by da way my dark horse 400 ohms version has reached the local post office..i will get it tomor


----------



## vapman

willtirta said:


> Hey guys.. i have come back with some impression of dk jin.. with copper cable.. i think it is good in detail, bass is there but not much.. this earbud in my opinion focused more on vocal.. the minus is soundstage...it doesnt have wide soudstage which i prefer more.. so i for sometimes move my earbud to lyra6..
> 
> LYRA6..MAN..This earbud is dope! Wide soundstage.. good clarity, alittle warm, and for my ear.. it has my best portion of bass.. lol (it is subjective though..)
> 
> ...


 

 Do you have any other buds than the Lyra and DK Jin? I'm curious how other people think the DK Jin and other buds in its price range compare.


----------



## music4mhell

willtirta said:


> Hey guys.. i have come back with some impression of dk jin.. with copper cable.. i think it is good in detail, bass is there but not much.. this earbud in my opinion focused more on vocal.. the minus is soundstage...it doesnt have wide soudstage which i prefer more.. so i for sometimes move my earbud to lyra6..
> 
> LYRA6..MAN..This earbud is dope! Wide soundstage.. good clarity, alittle warm, and for my ear.. it has my best portion of bass.. lol (it is subjective though..)
> 
> ...


guess what ..

i just ordered the lyra, this month's quota is over... no more earbuds


----------



## WillTirta

vapman said:


> Do you have any other buds than the Lyra and DK Jin? I'm curious how other people think the DK Jin and other buds in its price range compare.





vapman said:


> Do you have any other buds than the Lyra and DK Jin? I'm curious how other people think the DK Jin and other buds in its price range compare.



I have ve zen 2.0 cygnus, Ostry kc08, dk jin, aurvana air, used to have tomhawk but sold it..
My fav is lyra6, followed by aurvana and cygnus, ostry and then ve zen before dk jin.. it my subjecrive preference not to say that one is better than another.. 

For warm and long listening with all good state ve zen is the one.. to get more soundstage and followed by good bass, which still maintain nice detail i prefer lyra 6..

For clarity and swweter sound with detail and nice vocal i prefer aurvana air..and then the scond choice is cygnus..but i dont have the cygnus anymore..

Then ostry kc08 which is quite balanced which accompany ve zen as everday earbud, 
plus it is easier to drive than ve zen..

For tomahawk i dont remember it well, but i can say that it also nice as allarounder.. nice earbud but need to tighten the cost.


----------



## vapman

willtirta said:


> I have ve zen 2.0 cygnus, Ostry kc08, dk jin, aurvana air, used to have tomhawk but sold it..
> My fav is lyra6, followed by aurvana and cygnus, ostry and then ve zen before dk jin.. it my subjecrive preference not to say that one is better than another..
> 
> For warm and long listening with all good state ve zen is the one.. to get more soundstage and followed by good bass, which still maintain nice detail i prefer lyra 6..
> ...


 

 Hadn't considered the aurvana air seriously. I'll look into it.
  
 I have asura 2.0 but haven't heard zen 2.0 yet, feel like i should. I hope to hear the Cygnus soon though.
  
 Of all the ones you know what do you think is closest to DK Jin's sound signature?


----------



## ClieOS

Life's good.


----------



## WillTirta

clieos said:


> Life's good.



how is live and rose compare to cygnus.. just want to hear the king impression.. 
Rose mojito.. is it worth it.. it priced around mx985 with these day price..


----------



## USHI

@ClieOS how's the Gramo One and the cygnus?


----------



## Danneq

clieos said:


> Life's good.




I'm only missing the Rose Mojito. Got a pair of Cygnus on the way. Is that a pair of MX980 or 985?


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> I'm only missing the Rose Mojito. Got a pair of Cygnus on the way. Is that a pair of MX980 or 985?




Did you buy the $70 Cygnus? 

I'll be able to compare Cygnus and Mojito in a few weeks


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> guess what ..
> 
> i just ordered the lyra, this month's quota is over... no more earbuds




Haha!

You mean Lyra6, with ear hooks? The regular Lyra is discontinued. I looked for a while but only found a modded pair with balanced RSA/ALO cable. Didn't like the weight if adding adapters so now I've tracked down a second hand pair of Lyra. Might check out Lyra6 as well since the sound is modified a bit compared to the hook less Lyra...


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> Did you buy the $70 Cygnus?
> 
> I'll be able to compare Cygnus and Mojito in a few weeks




Nope. I bought it from Penon audio before the Ali express sale ($89)...


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > guess what ..
> ...


ohh sorry, i bought the lyra6 ..simple earbud no earhook model...let see how it compares to the big players like zen 2, cygnus, dark horse, tomahawk, ting etc.

by da way wat's the difference between lyra and lyra6 ?


----------



## rggz

I think we have a new picture for the category* "** THE CHAMPIONS"** *in the rank! But Zen 1 and TM7 it's pretty hard to find in nowadays.


----------



## foba

http://www.head-fi.org/t/783669/venture-electronics-ve-monk-a-5-earbud-that-seriously-deserves-a-place-here/2460#post_12465636
  
 I don´t want to derail that thread, especially since everyone is just waiting for Monk+.
  
 I´ve dwelled deeper into Tomahawks. I finally found good fit and also ran these with Gustard H10 (and not my portable setup Oppo Find 7A, or Sansa Clip Sport (and or XDuoo XQ10). Better fit + better source finally scaled these bad boys up to expectations. It´s funny because with Monk I can be almost careless with the fit since loose fit just makes the sound pleasantly airier but with Tomahawks if the fit is slightly off the sound kinda falls apart in a not very noticeable way - little cut from the bottom frequencies makes these earbuds really fatiguing. I can also run Monks with just about every source and they sound listenable, I guess not so much with the Tomahawks at least with my limited experience.
  
 But I´m happy to report that Tomahawks have earned "Monk 1.5" status for me and thats good enough sound for the price for sure. These are just my humble impressions, feel free to ask for more detailed earbud comparisons (Currently own Tomahawk/Monk/Mrice E100/Edifier H180)


----------



## rggz

foba said:


> But I´m happy to report that Tomahawks have earned "Monk 1.5" status for me and thats good enough sound for the price for sure. These are just my humble impressions, feel free to ask for more detailed earbud comparisons (Currently own Tomahawk/Monk/Mrice E100/Edifier H180)


 

 I'm waiting my pair of Tomahawk's atm, but do you prefer it over E100? I think E100 has a good and bads batchs and this make a controversy opinion about them, but always cool a comparison!


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> ohh sorry, i bought the lyra6 ..simple earbud no earhook model...let see how it compares to the big players like zen 2, cygnus, dark horse, tomahawk, ting etc.
> 
> by da way wat's the difference between lyra and lyra6 ?




Lyra without ear hooks.

Lyra6 released later and has got ear hooks. Sound is also changed a bit with some more focus on bass...



> Taking after the modern industrial design of Astrotec’s recent products, the LYRA 6 is a re-tuned and re-tooled LYRA. The columnar metal filters coming out of the backside of the LYRA 6 are said to be different from the ones used on the original LYRA, radiating sound energy in a unique pattern so as to optimize the sound signature. Of course, the biggest change is in the form factor — the LYRA 6 now possesses ear hooks.



Review of Lyra6 (together with Gramo One & Dunu Alpha 1)

I think he's too hard on Lyra6. I've only heard Lyra but find the sound to be smoother than Gramo One which can be a bit sharp and thin sometimes...


----------



## foba

rggz said:


> I'm waiting my pair of Tomahawk's atm, but do you prefer it over E100? I think E100 has a good and bads batchs and this make a controversy opinion about them, but always cool a comparison!


 
  
 Yes, I prefer the sound of Tomahawks over my current E100´s. Also Monk over E100. But E100 are almost perfect fit for my ears, that´s where they excel. Nowdays I prefer to run earbuds behind my earlobes, bear in mind. I´ve actually had couple of E100´s: I think the previous ones were little better sounding but since they broke and I had to order new ones I´ve forgotten what the signature was exactly like and can´t do comparison. Shame.


----------



## foba

Dare I say Tomahawks are a cross between Monks and E100´s?


----------



## rggz

foba said:


> Yes, I prefer the sound of Tomahawks over my current E100´s. Also Monk over E100. But E100 are almost perfect fit for my ears, that´s where they excel. Nowdays I prefer to run earbuds behind my earlobes, bear in mind. I´ve actually had couple of E100´s i think the previous ones where little better sounding but since they broke and I had to order new ones I´ve forgotten what the signature was exactly like and can´t do comparison. Shame.


 

 Thanks, mate! Yes, I have the similar impression my old pair the "bell housing" is a little bigger and sound more refined I bought a new pair some weeks ago and I noted the housing is a bit smaller and sound has a bit less extension on extremes too. Now I'm more hyped and anxious for check how the Tomahawk's sounds!


----------



## foba

rggz said:


> Thanks, mate! Yes, I have the similar impression my old pair the "bell housing" is a little bigger and sound more refined I bought a new pair some weeks ago and I noted the housing is a bit smaller and sound has a bit less extension on extremes too. Now I'm more hyped and anxious for check how the Tomahawk's sounds!


 
  
 Think of Tomahawks as a refining the sound you already get, so maybe not the best bang for buck, but for the price still great product. Also sexy as f.


----------



## ballog

foba said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/783669/venture-electronics-ve-monk-a-5-earbud-that-seriously-deserves-a-place-here/2460#post_12465636
> 
> I don´t want to derail that thread, especially since everyone is just waiting for Monk+.
> 
> ...



I have the same earbuds the Tomahawk is on its way (hopefully soon) plus i also have the Blox BE3.
What's your favorite of these earbuds? 
For my part i like the Edifier's clarity and low end,the Monk's mid and the organic sound of the Blox. I am kind of hoping the Tomahawk will be the jack-of-all-trade.


----------



## leobigfield

foba said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/783669/venture-electronics-ve-monk-a-5-earbud-that-seriously-deserves-a-place-here/2460#post_12465636
> 
> I don´t want to derail that thread, especially since everyone is just waiting for Monk+.
> 
> ...


 
  
 So the Tomahawks should cost $7.5 ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 LOL just messing with you. I've also bought the tomahawk but didn't arrive yet. Soo anxious!


----------



## knives

clieos said:


> Life's good.


 
 What earbud is that between TM7 and Zen?


----------



## RedJohn456

clieos said:


> Life's good.


 

 Ballin'
  
 I got the Sygnus on the way as well, pretty excited to see what they sound like  How do the rose sound?


----------



## supplehope

knives said:


> What earbud is that between TM7 and Zen?




Celsus Gramo One, iiac.


----------



## ClieOS

willtirta said:


> how is live and rose compare to cygnus.. just want to hear the king impression..
> Rose mojito.. is it worth it.. it priced around mx985 with these day price..


 
  
 Live and Mojito are both on the colder, more analytical sounding side. I don't hear the same on Cygnus as it is more on the usual warm sounding side. That means Cygnus is better for mainstream music while Live and Mojito will always be better to a more selective listener.
  
 I'll still pay full price (which I did) for the Mojito, because it does classical like no other and I enjoy it deeply. That being said (and I have said it a few times now), it is not for everyone and every music genre. It is way too analytical and thus it isn't particularly musical, it is way too revealing and thus old recording sounds just awful. It has too wide a soundstage so vocal isn't particularly intimate - absolutely great if you are an analytical listener, only listen to good recording and partial to instrumental, classical, or new age and that alike. Otherwise, I don't see it as much of a versatile choice if your taste of music varies quite a bit. Like I said before, it is the earbuds' equivalence of Etymotic ER4 - you either like it or you don't.
  


ushi said:


> @ClieOS how's the Gramo One and the cygnus?


 
  
 Really good, but not beyond TM7, Zen 1 or MX985.
  


danneq said:


> I'm only missing the Rose Mojito. Got a pair of Cygnus on the way. Is that a pair of MX980 or 985?


 
  
 MX985


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Life's good.


 
  
 Oh my god! Is this the new "Champions" category picture?! 
 How many times larger would the soundstage of the rose be compared to dualdrivers?


willtirta said:


> how is live and rose compare to cygnus.. just want to hear the king impression..
> Rose mojito.. is it worth it.. it priced around mx985 with these day price..


 
  what is live earbud? Hi-sound live?


----------



## goldenSHK

I've ramped up my earbud acquisitions to find one that I can use as my daily driver. Recently I got the VE Asura 2.0 and it was a bit underwhelming coming from the VE Zen 2.0 and MX985. I was hoping for a more full sound instead got a bit thin and harsh overall signature. It's very good though in terms of detail and crushes the Monks in resolution, don't get me wrong. But with all due respect ClieOS, I would not compare these to the Zen 2.0 or rank them so closely together. I don't know what you heard that I am missing...they are good earbuds for sure, but they are not MX985 good or perform close to an amped Zen 2.0. 
  
 Oh well, search continues to find the best portable earbud.


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> Oh my god! Is this the new "Champions" category picture?!
> How many times larger would the soundstage of the rose be compared to dualdrivers?


 
  
 No, it is not the new Champions portrait. I haven't spent nearly enough time on Gramo One or Cygnus to make any decision on them yet.
  
 DIY Dual driver's soundstage is big for an earbud, but Mojito's soundstage is big like a full size.
  
  
 Quote:


goldenshk said:


> I've ramped up my earbud acquisitions to find one that I can use as my daily driver. Recently I got the VE Asura 2.0 and it was a bit underwhelming coming from the VE Zen 2.0 and MX985. I was hoping for a more full sound instead got a bit thin and harsh overall signature. It's very good though in terms of detail and crushes the Monks in resolution, don't get me wrong. *But with all due respect ClieOS, I would not compare these to the Zen 2.0 or rank them so closely together. I don't know what you heard that I am missing*...they are good earbuds for sure, but they are not MX985 good or perform close to an amped Zen 2.0.
> 
> Oh well, search continues to find the best portable earbud.


 
  
 Err... I haven't actually ranked Asura 2.0 or even Zen 2.0?


----------



## goldenSHK

clieos said:


> Err... I haven't actually ranked Asura 2.0 or even Zen 2.0?


 
 I'm sorry, my mistake. I didn't see the (beta) part on your Asura ranking. But you should really do a 2.0 ranking now that you're building your collection.


----------



## ClieOS

goldenshk said:


> I'm sorry, my mistake. I didn't see the (beta) part on your Asura ranking. But you should really do a 2.0 ranking now that you're building your collection.


 
  
 I guess as much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Just note that the original Zen and Asura (beta as well the official but short-lived Asura 1.0) are pretty much different beasts when compared to Zen 2 and Asura 2 as VE changes their OEM as well as the sound signature between the generation.


----------



## goldenSHK

clieos said:


> I guess as much
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, I figured as much, that's why I took back my comment. I am still trying very hard to find a more refined version of the VE Monk. I really like the Monk sound signature but it is quite grainy and the resolution is poor compared to top line earbuds (but still amazing value for $5). I still would have ranked it higher than "the good" category you said you'd put them in. They have some resolution problems. If I could just find a VE Monk signature earbud but with better bass resolution and complete black background/no grain my earbud search would be completely over!


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > ohh sorry, i bought the lyra6 ..simple earbud no earhook model...let see how it compares to the big players like zen 2, cygnus, dark horse, tomahawk, ting etc.
> ...


i just confirmed with the seller, it's lyra model without the hook


----------



## music4mhell

goldenshk said:


> clieos said:
> 
> 
> > I guess as much  . Just note that the original Zen and Asura (beta as well the official but short-lived Asura 1.0) are pretty much different beasts when compared to Zen 2 and Asura 2 as VE changes their OEM as well as the sound signature between the generation.
> ...


+1000

if zen 2 can hv monk's bass, then it will be the perfect earbud for me ..


----------



## golov17

At first I was puzzled by the sound sig at Zen2.0. It took a long time for evaluate the true. So, at the moment I am very attached to their sig, and I find it hard to return to Zen1.0, for me, though, I'm very fond of them. Magic. This is my story. For information.


----------



## music4mhell

two dark horse models one 400 ohm ans one 150 ohms


----------



## AudioNewbi3

music4mhell said:


> two dark horse models one 400 ohm ans one 150 ohms


 
 That is some seriously nice packaging. But then again, that is what you pay more for I guess?


----------



## music4mhell

audionewbi3 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > two dark horse models one 400 ohm ans one 150 ohms
> ...


for g150, i will say yes,

400 ohm model is on par with zen 2, cygnus, ting etc.... i like it..let see how better it becomes after some hours burn in...


----------



## rymd

goldenshk said:


> Yes, I figured as much, that's why I took back my comment. I am still trying very hard to find a more refined version of the VE Monk. I really like the Monk sound signature but it is quite grainy and the resolution is poor compared to top line earbuds (but still amazing value for $5). I still would have ranked it higher than "the good" category you said you'd put them in. They have some resolution problems. If I could just find a VE Monk signature earbud but with better bass resolution and complete black background/no grain my earbud search would be completely over!


 


 That would be the Zen 1 if you can find one that is, cause it looks like they're starting to become as rare in the wild as the TM7.
  
 but yeah, I still go back to the Zen 1 occasionally even though my Zen 2 is more resolving because the Zen 1 bass is unparalleled. The Zen 2 and Monk both roll off too early for my tastes. That was most disappointing when I first got the Zen 2, and why I felt like they took 2 steps forward 1 step back with it. Most earbud people probably aren't as obsessed with bass like me though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Weird thing to associate earbuds with amazing bass, but VE has somehow made it possible.


----------



## goldenSHK

rymd said:


> That would be the Zen 1 if you can find one that is, cause it looks like they're starting to become as rare in the wild as the TM7.
> 
> but yeah, I still go back to the Zen 1 occasionally even though my Zen 2 is more resolving because the Zen 1 bass is unparalleled. The Zen 2 and Monk both roll off too early for my tastes. That was most disappointing when I first got the Zen 2, and why I felt like they took 2 steps forward 1 step back with it. Most earbud people probably aren't as obsessed with bass like me though
> 
> ...


 
 Actually I didn't find the Zen 2.0 to have thin bass. When properly amped, I was very satisfied with the sound signature. It was mainly the Asura I thought was a bit thin.


----------



## foba

ballog said:


> I have the same earbuds the Tomahawk is on its way (hopefully soon) plus i also have the Blox BE3.
> What's your favorite of these earbuds?
> For my part i like the Edifier's clarity and low end,the Monk's mid and the organic sound of the Blox. I am kind of hoping the Tomahawk will be the jack-of-all-trade.


 
  
 Monks are my favourite: enough bass impact, wide and realistic soundstage, glorious mids. I´ve yet to hear Blox. If you don´t have any fitment issues and your source is not over emphasizing treble you will love Tomahawk. Too bad they still hurt my ears little.
  
 Also consider this: with both earphones I´ve encountered songs/albums that are barely listenable, but with Monks there have been actually LESS bad sounding records to my ears. Smoothing out the edges


----------



## Raketen

Yeah Zen 2 bass is decent for me as well, cm707 isn't too bad either.... but I wasn't expecting much from them so maybe just pleasantly surprised.


----------



## oopeteroo

finally could install the aliexpress app...... wanted to buy the Hawks for 36 USD.......did I just missed the deal ?:O


----------



## ryanjsoo

oopeteroo said:


> finally could install the aliexpress app...... wanted to buy the Hawks for 36 USD.......did I just missed the deal ?:O


 
  
 Some items in my cart still have a lower price in the app, the anniversary sale has ended however.


----------



## golov17

oopeteroo said:


> finally could install the aliexpress app...... wanted to buy the Hawks for 36 USD.......did I just missed the deal ?:O


----------



## ozkan

goldenshk said:


> Yes, I figured as much, that's why I took back my comment. I am still trying very hard to find a more refined version of the VE Monk. I really like the Monk sound signature but it is quite grainy and the resolution is poor compared to top line earbuds (but still amazing value for $5). I still would have ranked it higher than "the good" category you said you'd put them in. They have some resolution problems. If I could just find a VE Monk signature earbud but with better bass resolution and complete black background/no grain my earbud search would be completely over!




I strongly recommend using 75 ohm adapter to remove that grainy presentation. They are my favorite after I added the adapter to the Monk. You'll appreciate the improvement I guess.


----------



## goldenSHK

ozkan said:


> I strongly recommend using 75 ohm adapter to remove that grainy presentation. They are my favorite after I added the adapter to the Monk. You'll appreciate the improvement I guess.


 
 Link to such an adapter? I've never tried such a thing with previous headphones.


----------



## oopeteroo

now I'm sad


----------



## ozkan

goldenshk said:


> Link to such an adapter? I've never tried such a thing with previous headphones.


 

I'm using this one but unfortunately it is out of stock now. Some head-fiers also bought this cable. 

http://m.ebay.com/itm/BOCUR-AUDIO-PURE-COPPER-99-99-75OHM-ADAPTER-CABLE-FREE-SHIPPING-TO-WORLDWIDE-/331798876094?nav=SEARCH

There is also this one which is cheaper but I don't know if it is better or worser than mine. 

http://penonaudio.com/3.5mm-Inpedance-Plug


----------



## golov17

oopeteroo said:


> now I'm sad


----------



## jant71

music4mhell said:


> two dark horse models one 400 ohm ans one 150 ohms


 
  
 NIce! I know I love my DH! Tempted to grab a G150.


audionewbi3 said:


> That is some seriously nice packaging. But then again, that is what you pay more for I guess?


 
 The G150 are $29.60. I paid $40 for my ES-E4 and didn't get that packaging. Paid more for BLOX, Zen 2.0, YUIN, Senn, etc. and didn't get it either


----------



## goldenSHK

ozkan said:


> I'm using this one but unfortunately it is out of stock now. Some head-fiers also bought this cable.
> 
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/BOCUR-AUDIO-PURE-COPPER-99-99-75OHM-ADAPTER-CABLE-FREE-SHIPPING-TO-WORLDWIDE-/331798876094?nav=SEARCH
> 
> ...


 
 Interesting. I'll try to find another similar plug like yours on ebay then. I have never heard them actually improving sound quality though. I imagine it just makes the headphone slightly harder to drive thereby reducing the background grain of the headphone. It still wouldn't solve the resolution of the Monk being slightly inferior to that of the Zen 2.0, but it'd be a good start I guess. The bass on the MX985 and Zen 2.0 is noticeably more textured and layered than the Monk's. It is very noticeable on tracks that have deep bass that is quick and fast in transition.


----------



## golov17

goldenshk said:


> Interesting. I'll try to find another similar plug like yours on ebay then. I have never heard them actually improving sound quality though. I imagine it just makes the headphone slightly harder to drive thereby reducing the background grain of the headphone. It still wouldn't solve the resolution of the Monk being slightly inferior to that of the Zen 2.0, but it'd be a good start I guess. The bass on the MX985 and Zen 2.0 is noticeably more textured and layered than the Monk's. It is very noticeable on tracks that have deep bass that is quick and fast in transition.



http://m.ebay.com/itm/291329605627?
http://s.aliexpress.com/eInqmqeQ


----------



## goldenSHK

golov17 said:


> http://m.ebay.com/itm/291329605627?


 
 Wow thanks for that. It looks good.


----------



## ozkan

goldenshk said:


> Interesting. I'll try to find another similar plug like yours on ebay then. I have never heard them actually improving sound quality though. I imagine it just makes the headphone slightly harder to drive thereby reducing the background grain of the headphone. It still wouldn't solve the resolution of the Monk being slightly inferior to that of the Zen 2.0, but it'd be a good start I guess. The bass on the MX985 and Zen 2.0 is noticeably more textured and layered than the Monk's. It is very noticeable on tracks that have deep bass that is quick and fast in transition.




Nope not only makes your Monk hard to drive but also improves the sound especially the bass and treble are effected mostly. You'll probably need an amp or some powerful source after adding it to the chain. Any phone won't be enough to drive the Monk when added an 75 adapter.


----------



## ozkan

golov17 said:


> http://m.ebay.com/itm/291329605627?
> http://s.aliexpress.com/eInqmqeQ




I wouldn't recommend this adapter as it is inferior to the cable adapter.


----------



## golov17

ozkan said:


> I wouldn't recommend this adapter as it is inferior to the cable adapter.


bocur better? I need 150 or 200 Ohm


----------



## ClieOS

ozkan said:


> I wouldn't recommend this adapter as it is inferior to the cable adapter.


 
  
 Awwan 75ohm is just fine, so is Dunu's. Adding extra piece of cable doesn't electronically make a 75ohm adapter better, the opposite is however true. You always want the shortest path for your analog signal.


----------



## ozkan

golov17 said:


> bocur better?




Yes better.


----------



## ozkan

clieos said:


> Awwan 75ohm is just fine, so is Dunu's. Adding extra piece of cable doesn't electronically make a 75ohm adapter better, the opposite is however true. You always want the shortest path for your analog signal.




I'm taking about the resistors used in the plug @ClieOS not the cable.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> Awwan 75ohm is just fine, so is Dunu's. Adding extra piece of cable doesn't electronically make a 75ohm adapter better, the opposite is however true. You always want the shortest path for your analog signal.


i use DUNU, but don't try BOCUR.


----------



## ClieOS

ozkan said:


> I'm taking about the resistors used in the plug @ClieOS not the cable.


 

 They are all metal film, just like everyone else.


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> i just confirmed with the seller, it's lyra model without the hook




Cool! Then the seller has access to some of the old Lyra!


----------



## ClieOS

danneq said:


> Cool! Then the seller has access to some of the old Lyra!


 
  
 Actually I am pretty sure I saw some Lyra floating around Aliexpress.


----------



## golov17

Free Shipping 2014 100% original Astrotec LYRA in-ear headphones flat plug moving-coil HIFI fever music earplugs in-ear 
http://s.aliexpress.com/zaemuaMz
About lyra's 
http://androidforums.com/threads/review-of-astrotec-lyra-6-earbuds-w-lots-of-pics.887778/


----------



## ozkan

clieos said:


> They are all metal film, just like everyone else.




Funny that you are ignoring the quality of the resistors used in several brand adapters. Everyone has different skin color and character blah blah so do the resistors.


----------



## Danneq

clieos said:


> Actually I am pretty sure I saw some Lyra floating around Aliexpress.




When I was searching for Lyra in November/December I bought a pair from Penon audio/Bigbargainonline on Ebay, but after I paid I got a message that they were sold out and discontinued and my money was refunded. I asked a seller on Ali express about the Lyra and got a reply that they only had Lyra6. So then I tried to find Lyra used instead...


----------



## ClieOS

ozkan said:


> Funny that you are ignoring the quality of the resistors used in several brand adapters. Everyone has different skin color and character blah blah so do the resistors.


 
  
 Some EE already wrote an article about the effect of varies kind of resistors in audio circuit using data from experiment, but apparently not everyone agree with what EE said these days and like to make their own claim.
  


danneq said:


> When I was searching for Lyra in November/December I bought a pair from Penon audi/Bigbargainonline, but after I paid I got a message that they were sold out and discontinued and my money was refunded. I asked a seller on Ali express about the Lyra and got a reply that they only had Lyra6. So then I tried to find Lyra used instead...


 
  
 I guess that does happen a lot when AE sellers don't actually have any stock but still list things anyway. Won't surprise me if they only went out to buy from Taobao and ship it on AE and still make money out of it, given there is a significant price difference between the two places.


----------



## fleasbaby

clieos said:


> Some EE already wrote an article about the effect of varies kind of resistors in audio circuit using data from experiment, but apparently not everyone agree with what EE said these days and like to make their own claim.
> 
> 
> I guess that does happen a lot when AE sellers don't actually have any stock but still list things anyway. Won't surprise me if they only went out to buy from Taobao and ship it on AE and still make money out of it, given there is a significant price difference between the two places.


 
  
 Speaking of good buds now discontinued....anyone know a good place to pick up a pair of MX985?


----------



## golov17

fleasbaby said:


> Speaking of good buds now discontinued....anyone know a good place to pick up a pair of MX985?


G-market Korean
http://gsearch.gmarket.co.kr/Listview/Search?keyword=Sennheiser%20mx985


----------



## vapman

Who's the other person that bought a Rose Mojito? I can recognize @BloodyPenguin and myself in the buyer list on Ali but not sure who that third person is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







  
 Speaking of which I'm doing the finishing touches on my *FiiO EM3* review! to be posted soon
  
 Wow if those MX985 are new I might get one.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

ozkan said:


> I strongly recommend using 75 ohm adapter to remove that grainy presentation. They are my favorite after I added the adapter to the Monk. You'll appreciate the improvement I guess.


 
  
  


goldenshk said:


> Link to such an adapter? I've never tried such a thing with previous headphones.


 
  
 If you have access to Taobao, you can actually find a lot of such adapters. Ranging from 33-75-150 or even 300Ohms
  
 Here is my custom 33 Ohm

  
  
 Dunu Alpha adapter from PENON is by DUNU ALPHA, which is good. The other silver posted by Golov one is by Music Valley, makers of the Rocoon RC-1 and RC-2 amp
  
  


ozkan said:


> Nope not only makes your Monk hard to drive but also improves the sound especially the bass and treble are effected mostly. You'll probably need an amp or some powerful source after adding it to the chain. Any phone won't be enough to drive the Monk when added an 75 adapter.


 
  
 By adding an adapter between your source and bud, you are basically reducing background noise and maybe to a certain extent "dulling" the higher frequencies, at least that is what I experience with both my 33Ohms and Dunu.
  


clieos said:


> Awwan 75ohm is just fine, so is Dunu's. Adding extra piece of cable doesn't electronically make a 75ohm adapter better, the opposite is however true. You always want the shortest path for your analog signal.


 
 I agree fully, but sometimes if your amp has no gain switch and excessively high output, I would no doubt turn to these adapters hahaha.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

On a side note, just wanted to inform brother and sisters in the thread that the following seller (who speaks English, though not perfect) of earbud from Thailand will ship internationally.
  
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.788074577971043.1073741959.409495712495600&type=3
  
 Good Sound Gadget

 Some of their work: (image credit to Good Sound Credit)


----------



## fleasbaby

golov17 said:


> G-market Korean
> http://gsearch.gmarket.co.kr/Listview/Search?keyword=Sennheiser%20mx985


 

 ...are they genuine?I saw a few from Korea on eBay too...


----------



## golov17

fleasbaby said:


> ...are they genuine?I saw a few from Korea on eBay too...


...a matter of faith. no one complained, so far...


----------



## ozkan

audionewbi3 said:


> If you have access to Taobao, you can actually find a lot of such adapters. Ranging from 33-75-150 or even 300Ohms
> 
> Here is my custom 33 Ohm
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oh than you should be knowing that 75 ohm adapters don't work the same on all headphones/IEMs. Sometimes it does nothing other than decreasing the volume and removing the hiss. However they can do some magic on some earphones/IEMs. Monk, ER4P, HF5 are good examples and do benefit from the resistors.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

ozkan said:


> Oh than you should be knowing that 75 ohm adapters don't work the same on all headphones/IEMs. Sometimes it does nothing other than decreasing the volume and removing the hiss. However they can do some magic on some earphones/IEMs. Monk, ER4P, HF5 are good examples and do benefit from the resistors.


 
  Maybe, because for me generally, I use impedance adapters on my buds or iems when mating them with an amp of no gain switch. I started out with the 75Ohm Dunu's, but I found that yes, although background noise is reduced and I can then turn the volume knob more (out of the area of channel imbalance), the sound has somewhat been changed I guess, the highs were not as lively as they used to be. 
  
 Thus, I order another one, which is only 33Ohms (according to sellers, 33 Ohms is close to the absolute minimum value usable for my situation). In conclusion, I only use Impadance adapters to reduce channel imbalance on my amps, and not for changing the sound sig.


----------



## TDanz

Does anyone try Pi Audio 3.14 FLAT?
How bout the sound?
Some people said that this pi audio have smooth and lush vocals, but i cant get the full review from any websites.
By the way pi audio 3.14 FLAT looks similiar to Dasetn MC5 when viewed from the box
Could it be have the same sound?


----------



## fleasbaby

I've spent the last few days using the VE Asura 2.0. I have to say, I felt the 1.0 version got lost in the storm between the Zen and the Monk, despite it being a solid earbud. 

The same is happening with the 2.0. It requires a solid amount of burn in (at least about 200 hours), but the end result is rewarding.


----------



## vapman

fleasbaby said:


> I've spent the last few days using the VE Asura 2.0. I have to say, I felt the 1.0 version got lost in the storm between the Zen and the Monk, despite it being a solid earbud.
> 
> The same is happening with the 2.0. It requires a solid amount of burn in (at least about 200 hours), but the end result is rewarding.


 

 I still haven't heard a Zen but I love my Asura and it only gets better with time. I haven't reached for the Monk at home in so long.


----------



## goldenSHK

fleasbaby said:


> I've spent the last few days using the VE Asura 2.0. I have to say, I felt the 1.0 version got lost in the storm between the Zen and the Monk, despite it being a solid earbud.
> 
> The same is happening with the 2.0. It requires a solid amount of burn in (at least about 200 hours), but the end result is rewarding.


 
 The problem with the Asura 2.0 is that it is "another one of those good earbuds." It's not anything special like the Zen 2.0 or MX985 because it is very easy for earbuds to have the Asura type of sound signature (clear, midcentric, flat but tight bass, rather neutral in highs). There are many earbuds with this type of sound signature. Of course the Asura 2.0 is great and it's usually better than most, but the reason "great" earbuds are just that great is that they hit deep, sub-bass well, maintain clarity and an open sound. There are just too many "mid centric" good sounding earbuds for the Asura to impress me unfortunately. With that said, it's quite a good earbud, definitely not better than the Zen 2.0 or too close to it.


----------



## Zani004

audionewbi3 said:


> On a side note, just wanted to inform brother and sisters in the thread that the following seller (who speaks English, though not perfect) of earbud from Thailand will ship internationally.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.788074577971043.1073741959.409495712495600&type=3
> 
> ...


 

 Have you ordered from him?


----------



## golov17

What about HSA Living earbuds, owners?


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> What about HSA Living earbuds, owners?


how is HSA living compare to zen2 ?
specially of Bass part


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> What about HSA Living earbuds, owners?




I recently sold my pair. The sound was thin and bright. Very bright. I prefered HSA Live to Living. But just VE Monk on its own blows all HSA earbuds away. So I prefer other earbud makers than HSA...


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> I recently sold my pair. The sound was thin and bright. Very bright. I prefered HSA Live to Living. But just VE Monk on its own blows all HSA earbuds away. So I prefer other earbud makers than HSA...


 hehe


----------



## music4mhell

Any one ordered new monk plus ? now it's live on aliexpress


----------



## Saoshyant

music4mhell said:


> Any one ordered new monk plus ? now it's live on aliexpress


 Waiting on a price adjustment, so hopefully it goes through.


----------



## golov17

oopeteroo said:


> now I'm sad


 right now


----------



## AudioNewbi3

zani004 said:


> Have you ordered from him?


 
 Yup Blackbud supreme


----------



## music4mhell

saoshyant said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Any one ordered new monk plus ? now it's live on aliexpress
> ...


same here, i ordered 2


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> Yup Blackbud supreme




How did you order? Through Facebook or e-mail? And how did you pay for them? I'm curious about Supreme and A-phile...


----------



## golov17

FB message, PayPal paid
http://www.kaidee.com/member/listing/150106


----------



## golov17

Ve monk vs Fiio em3 
http://www.thesoundfreq.com/fiio-em3/


----------



## B9Scrambler

golov17 said:


> Ve monk vs Fiio em3
> http://www.thesoundfreq.com/fiio-em3/




Interesting. I hear the complete opposite; Monk is the darker, warmer, less treble prominent of the two. Different ears, different hears. Haha


----------



## golov17

b9scrambler said:


> Interesting. I hear the complete opposite; Monk is the darker, warmer, less treble prominent of the two. Different ears, different hears. Haha


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> How did you order? Through Facebook or e-mail? And how did you pay for them? I'm curious about Supreme and A-phile...


 
 Just pm him via Fb message and mention that you would like to purchase the Supreme or A-phile.

 Then he would promt you to choose your "layout"

 For example:
  
 I bought my Supreme for 1580Bhat which is the Supreme driver and housing, with V-monk cable (Out of choice of 4 basic cables) . This combo is recommended by the seller.
  
 Or if you have deeper pockets you can opt for:
  
 Supreme Driver                                   1480Bhat
 Oyaide Gold Plated Headphone Jack  690Bhat
Supreme Wire                                      890Bhat
  
Which totals for 3000+Bhat.
  
Payment is process is painless and you just fb msg him your email then he will send you an invoice.

 Hope this explains it.

 Cheers


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> FB message, PayPal paid
> http://www.kaidee.com/member/listing/150106


 
 You have bought buds from him before?


----------



## golov17

hard to choose, i expect price list in usd


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> hard to choose, i expect price list in usd


 
 Ah I see I see.


----------



## golov17

Yuin OK1 review & compare from Japan


----------



## pinoyman

whats the best earbud right now?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jant71

pinoyman said:


> whats the best earbud right now?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 

 You gotta find the best for you and your gear, tastes, etc. from the better ones we know of atm. There is no outright "best".


----------



## supplehope

jant71 said:


> You gotta find the best for you and your gear, tastes, etc. from the better ones we know of atm. There is no outright "best".




True that. And also, choose what's the best for *you*, not what anyone else consider the best.


----------



## haiku

The best earbud right now is the Monk...... for me!


----------



## Jackhomo

Ostry KC08 vs. VE Monk?


----------



## vapman

How's the Zen 2.0 stack up against the Cygnus, asura 2.0 and the other almost-but-not-quite $100 buds?
  
 I haven't heard it yet and still unsure if it's an earbud I want, so I'm hesitant to drop $140~ on it, even though I spent a bit more on the Mojito, haha.
  
 Also I'm still _very_ interested to know if the Korean marketplace golov found stocks NOS mx980/985. I might try to send them a badly google translated message.


----------



## fleasbaby

vapman said:


> How's the Zen 2.0 stack up against the Cygnus, asura 2.0 and the other almost-but-not-quite $100 buds?
> 
> I haven't heard it yet and still unsure if it's an earbud I want, so I'm hesitant to drop $140~ on it, even though I spent a bit more on the Mojito, haha.
> 
> Also I'm still _very_ interested to know if the Korean marketplace golov found stocks NOS mx980/985. I might try to send them a badly google translated message.


 
  
 I intend to stack the Zen 2.0 and Asura 2.0 against the Cygnus and the Mr Z Tomahawk shortly...as soon as the Cygnus and Tomahawk arrive. Been waiting, waiting, waiting...


----------



## vapman

fleasbaby said:


> I intend to stack the Zen 2.0 and Asura 2.0 against the Cygnus and the Mr Z Tomahawk shortly...as soon as the Cygnus and Tomahawk arrive. Been waiting, waiting, waiting...


 

 I'm very familiar with the Asura 2.0 (owned 2 at one point) if you could compare the Zen to it!


----------



## fleasbaby

vapman said:


> I'm very familiar with the Asura 2.0 (owned 2 at one point) if you could compare the Zen to it!


 
  
 Will do. Will likely pull out my Zen 1.0 as well. I know I have Asura 1.0 somewhere in here...I think I lent them to my running buddy (not for running though...listening at work). I am long overdue for some reviewing again.


----------



## goldenSHK

vapman said:


> How's the Zen 2.0 stack up against the Cygnus, asura 2.0 and the other almost-but-not-quite $100 buds?
> 
> I haven't heard it yet and still unsure if it's an earbud I want, so I'm hesitant to drop $140~ on it, even though I spent a bit more on the Mojito, haha.
> 
> Also I'm still _very_ interested to know if the Korean marketplace golov found stocks NOS mx980/985. I might try to send them a badly google translated message.


 

 I highly prefer the ve Zen 2.0 to the ve Asura 2.0 (I bought the Asura from you haha). The Asura is great, but it does not have as deep bass as a highly amped Zen. I'd highly recommend you pick up a Zen 2.0. I use the Asura right now as my daily earbud. But it does not reach as deep bass as the Zen 2.0. It's a different sound signature. The Zen is much more full and warm, something most earbuds can't do well. If that is the type of sound you enjoy, you'll be very satisfied by the Zen.


----------



## vapman

I'll have to get a zen eventually. I was thinking today the bass extension was pretty nice on the Asura but the other nice thing about the Asura is you can use it directly out of a DAP as it doesn't require too much power. Probably wouldn't use it with a smartphone but I haven't tried and have no reason to.


----------



## fleasbaby

vapman said:


> I'll have to get a zen eventually. I was thinking today the bass extension was pretty nice on the Asura but the other nice thing about the Asura is you can use it directly out of a DAP as it doesn't require too much power. Probably wouldn't use it with a smartphone but I haven't tried and have no reason to.


 
  
 Just posted my review on the Asura 2.0...
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/venture-electronics-asura-2-0/reviews/15671
  
 You should hear some Zen 2.0 if you can...but you should burn the hell out of your Asura 2.0...


----------



## goldenSHK

vapman said:


> I'll have to get a zen eventually. I was thinking today the bass extension was pretty nice on the Asura but the other nice thing about the Asura is you can use it directly out of a DAP as it doesn't require too much power. Probably wouldn't use it with a smartphone but I haven't tried and have no reason to.


 
 You definitely can't play the Zen out of a smartphone, that's the only reason I use the Asura as my daily earbud.


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> On a side note, just wanted to inform brother and sisters in the thread that the following seller (who speaks English, though not perfect) of earbud from Thailand will ship internationally.
> 
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.788074577971043.1073741959.409495712495600&type=3
> ...


Price in USD without shipping:
Good Sound Gadget
My DIY model in USD.

หูฟัง เอียร์บัด EARBUD Earphone Headphone.>

New arrival..

- Sony Ericsson HPM-64 Punchy bass <> $11 usd.
- หูฟังโอห์มสูง 320 Ohm Natural sound high detail flat tone < https://goo.gl/WLzSZD > $24 usd. - WhiteBud - Bass forward < https://goo.gl/L4ddWd > $11 usd.

BlackBud - Supreme - High impedance 150 Ohm. Beautiful sound rich dynamic < http://goo.gl/4Zz3bo > $45 usd. BlackBud - A-phile - High impedance 150 Ohm. Flat monitor sound < http://goo.gl/I5vaz0 > $19 usd. BlackBud - Red - fully equipped sound < http://goo.gl/kQPFVu > $19 usd. BlackBud - Live! - Live sound concert < http://goo.gl/lZdnp3 > $19 usd. BlackBud - Delight - Mid to High crisp sound < http://goo.gl/DJQOOS > $19 usd. BlueBud - bass foward < http://goo.gl/wpiRl2 > $14 usd.

VE. MONK by Goodsound - Rich dynamic < https://goo.gl/bqpBuX > $13 usd. Tingo TG-38s - Rich dynamic < http://goo.gl/dYQfEv > $16 usd.

iDeal Earbud < http://goo.gl/hNhw95 > (ไม่มีอีก Ref)

หูฟัง SIEMENS XELIBRI (NOS) Since 2002 < https://goo.gl/T0h7DD > (หมด)

Feedback ความเห็นจากผู้ฟัง.. < http://goo.gl/yRkOS2 >

And you can upgrade sound quality with Earphones cable price $7 - 25 usd.


----------



## vapman

goldenshk said:


> You definitely can't play the Zen out of a smartphone, that's the only reason I use the Asura as my daily earbud.


 

 I only ever use a tube powered headphone amp so I'm fine with something that can't be used with a smartphone/laptop/etc directly.


----------



## Zani004

audionewbi3 said:


> Just pm him via Fb message and mention that you would like to purchase the Supreme or A-phile.
> 
> Then he would promt you to choose your "layout"
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for this information. Did he recommend the cable you ordered over the other three basic cables? or over the supreme cable as well?
  
 Is this using the Yuin shell like the Cygnus? Because I find that supremely comfortable fit.


----------



## yacobx

zani004 said:


> audionewbi3 said:
> 
> 
> > Just pm him via Fb message and mention that you would like to purchase the Supreme or A-phile.
> ...





I wish VE would switch to yuin shell it's my favorite. I wonder if I can mod it with my zen driver


----------



## haiku

golov17 said:


> Price in USD without shipping:
> Good Sound Gadget
> My DIY model in USD.
> 
> ...


 

 Hey Golov. Do you know their email address? I´m not on fb, but I´m interested in their Monk mod!


----------



## golov17

haiku said:


> Hey Golov. Do you know their email address? I´m not on fb, but I´m interested in their Monk mod!


GoodsoundGadget@gmail.com


----------



## haiku

golov17 said:


> GoodsoundGadget@gmail.com


 

 Thanks, mate!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

zani004 said:


> Thanks for this information. Did he recommend the cable you ordered over the other three basic cables? or over the supreme cable as well?
> 
> Is this using the Yuin shell like the Cygnus? Because I find that supremely comfortable fit.


 
 For what I was willing and able to pay (a total of 1580 Bhat), GSG recommended me to use the V-Monk Cable for the BlackBud Supreme.
  
 There are 4 basic cable types to choose from and given my budget, he recommended the V-Monk, which is one of the basic cable. 

 If money was not an issue, he would recommend using Supreme Cable. But the cable and oyaide jack was already the same price as the BlackBud Supreme with basic cable. 
  
 Seeing as I can hardly tell the diff between cables, I opted to save some $$$ and just purchased the basic version.

 And as for housing, yup, GSG uses Yuin PK shells, which if it is the same as my Cygnus, is one of the best fitting earbud ever!


----------



## Zani004

audionewbi3 said:


> For what I was willing and able to pay (a total of 1580 Bhat), GSG recommended me to use the V-Monk Cable for the BlackBud Supreme.
> 
> There are 4 basic cable types to choose from and given my budget, he recommended the V-Monk, which is one of the basic cable.
> 
> ...


 

 Many thanks. Although, saying that, it looks like you just made a further dent in my bank balance


----------



## AudioNewbi3

zani004 said:


> Many thanks. Although, saying that, it looks like you just made a further dent in my bank balance


 
 For that, I apologize hahahaha


----------



## golov17

wives need to close the thread, lolzzz 
...but, Cygnus in my post office


----------



## music4mhell

Is it a phobia or i am feeling it ?
  
 Why every time the newest earbud sounds better than others 
 Right now i feel Dark Horse G400 is @ Summit


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> Is it a phobia or i am feeling it ?
> 
> Why every time the newest earbud sounds better than others
> Right now i feel Dark Horse G400 is @ Summit


 Hmm... just made a further dent in our bank balance??


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Is it a phobia or i am feeling it ?
> ...


 
 I don't have any bank balance left  there is no place for dent even


----------



## golov17

Waiting.....
Waiting.....
Waiting.....
Done!


----------



## pinoyman

may i know what are the best earphones right now?
 my mx980 just died and stopped working.


----------



## golov17

pinoyman said:


> may i know what are the best earphones right now?
> my mx980 just died and stopped working.


see first page


----------



## ryanjsoo

Just ordered the MRZ Tomahawks during the Aliexpress sale, very excited but shipping is so slow! Expect a comprehensive review in the next few weeks with comparison to the Baldoor e100`s and the brand new Fiio Em3`s!
  
 BTW, does anyone know if they`re dual BA or dynamic driver earphones? The official alliexpress store says dual BA but some other sellers say dynamic, very strange...


----------



## ClieOS

ryanjsoo said:


> Just ordered the MRZ Tomahawks during the Aliexpress sale, very excited but shipping is so slow! Expect a comprehensive review in the next few weeks with comparison to the Baldoor e100`s and the brand new Fiio Em3`s!
> 
> BTW, does anyone know if they`re dual BA or dynamic driver earphones? The official alliexpress store says dual BA but some other sellers say dynamic, very strange...


 
  
 Of course it is dynamic driver. There is only one earbud ever made that has a BA inside (along with a dynamic to form a hybrid configuration) and it is by DUNU.
  
 Don't worry too much about the BA thingy as it is probably just the usual lost-in-translation moment for the Chinese seller that doesn't speak much English. The actual original Chinese description on Tomahawks said 'as analytical as a BA driver', but by the time you saw it on Aliexpress, it somehow becomes a 'BA earbud' in itself. Just silly mistake.


----------



## TDanz

Does anyone try Pai Audio 3.14 PR1?
Is that worth to buy for earbuds under $20?


----------



## Saoshyant

tdanz said:


> Does anyone try Pai Audio 3.14 PR1?
> Is that worth to buy for earbuds under $20?


 
 There is a review of those up on http://www.head-fi.org/t/781399/audio-pai-audio
  
 Hopefully it will help you decide whether or not to give them a try.


----------



## n1xon

Are there any earphones on that list that are better than pk2's but share the same or similar shell as them? they were comfortable and the backup earphones I have now are painful to the ears over time. I won't be running an amp though so I may be asking too much. Any help would be great!
  
 Or should I just go through the facebook guy posted in this thread a few pages prior to this one?


----------



## vapman

n1xon said:


> Are there any earphones on that list that are better than pk2's but share the same or similar shell as them? they were comfortable and the backup earphones I have now are painful to the ears over time. I won't be running an amp though so I may be asking too much. Any help would be great!
> 
> Or should I just go through the facebook guy posted in this thread a few pages prior to this one?


 

 Fiio EM3 if you like present highs


----------



## AudioNewbi3

n1xon said:


> Are there any earphones on that list that are better than pk2's but share the same or similar shell as them? they were comfortable and the backup earphones I have now are painful to the ears over time. I won't be running an amp though so I may be asking too much. Any help would be great!
> 
> Or should I just go through the facebook guy posted in this thread a few pages prior to this one?





If you listen to a lot of vocal or pop, try the Cygnus. Same shell


----------



## TDanz

saoshyant said:


> There is a review of those up on http://www.head-fi.org/t/781399/audio-pai-audio
> 
> Hopefully it will help you decide whether or not to give them a try.




Wow thanks 
if i want to buy earbuds with great soundstage, lush vocal, warm soundsig, can you give me some advice?


----------



## music4mhell

tdanz said:


> saoshyant said:
> 
> 
> > There is a review of those up on http://www.head-fi.org/t/781399/audio-pai-audio
> ...


 
 Monk


----------



## music4mhell

Guys, How is PK1 compare to Zen 2 or Cygnus or Tomahawk ?


----------



## goldenSHK

And while we are asking for comparisons to Zen and Cygnus, how is the Cygnus bass and sub bass specifically compared to top end earbud bass like the Zen 2.0 and MX985? For me, sub bass and bass presence is important in finding the perfect earbud because I am trying to replace full size headphones.


----------



## yacobx

goldenshk said:


> And while we are asking for comparisons to Zen and Cygnus, how is the Cygnus bass and sub bass specifically compared to top end earbud bass like the Zen 2.0 and MX985? For me, sub bass and bass presence is important in finding the perfect earbud because I am trying to replace full size headphones.




I have heard zen 1 is best. Zen 2 is better than Cygnus. Cygnus is the most comfortable and still has good bass presence.


----------



## golov17

goldenshk said:


> And while we are asking for comparisons to Zen and Cygnus, how is the Cygnus bass and sub bass specifically compared to top end earbud bass like the Zen 2.0 and MX985? For me, sub bass and bass presence is important in finding the perfect earbud because I am trying to replace full size headphones.


zen1.0 win (better sub bass of the world)


----------



## Zani004

golov17 said:


> zen1.0 win (better sub bas of the world)


 

 Did you get the cygnus today? What do you think? (early impressions I know)


----------



## golov17

maybe in a few hours ... there is no way to get to the post office, unfortunately, a lot of work ..


----------



## AudioNewbi3

So my BOE arrived today. Very happy, but a wee bit surprised at the lack of a proper hard-case for earbud storage. Came with 2 pais of doughnut foams (Which is one more pair when compared to the Cygnus....SCORE!). 

 As one can see from my photo, that is all you get.

 Now, as for my initial impressions

 The sound of the earbud is quite "thick", "thicker" than the Tomahawks, more so than the Cygnus.
 Soundstaging is about on par or below the Tomahwaks, but maybe due to the "thickness" of the sound, it can feel a wee bit intimidate.  
  
 But one thing that hits me straight in the head is bass presence, but maybe that is just me though.

 In my personal experience (or lack of), I would categorize this bud as "mid-centric"

@BloodyPenguin would you agree?


----------



## golov17

http://s.aliexpress.com/A3eyqeq6


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/A3eyqeq6


 
 I have ordered 10 of them last month  All on the way !


----------



## endia

guys, do not forgot your beloved one 
  

  
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Factory-Price-Portable-Mini-Zipper-Earphone-Bags-Headphone-SD-Card-Box-Bag-Carrying-Pouch-Storage-Freeshipping/32634221273.html


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> So my BOE arrived today. Very happy, but a wee bit surprised at the lack of a proper hard-case for earbud storage. Came with 2 pais of doughnut foams (Which is one more pair when compared to the Cygnus....SCORE!).
> 
> As one can see from my photo, that is all you get.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I completely agree.  I still like the BOE a lot, but I heard them before the Tomahawks.  I find the Tomahawk to have a much more clear presentation than the BOE.
  
 I also find that the BOE has that wonderful bass presence as well.  I would also say that the BOE has a slight bump in the mids, giving it nice, smooth, upfront vocals.
  
 --


----------



## Saoshyant

That reminds me, the earbud case that came with my DK Jin was HUGE.  I mean probably around twice what I'd standardly see.  I decided to move my RE-262 with it's adapters to the big one, and the DK Jin to a smaller spare one.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/A3eyqeq6


 
  


endia said:


> guys, do not forgot your beloved one
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 best solution, chepo pelican case from taobao!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> I completely agree.  I still like the BOE a lot, but I heard them before the Tomahawks.  I find the Tomahawk to have a much more clear presentation than the BOE.
> 
> I also find that the BOE has that wonderful bass presence as well.  I would also say that the BOE has a slight bump in the mids, giving it nice, smooth, upfront vocals.
> 
> --


 
 Yes, the mids are liquid smooth, dare I say better presented than the Tomahawks? Maybe. Right now still in the process of trying my usual play-list on the BOE. 

 Taking the Hawks into consideration, the BOE is still quite the value for money. Though still a long-shot away from them freak Monks.


----------



## golov17

zani004 said:


> Did you get the cygnus today? What do you think? (early impressions I know)


Arrived. Cygnus good for collection, but Asura better for life. IMHO


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> Arrived. Cygnus good for collection, but Asura better for life. IMHO


 
 Ah okay okay. I have not had the chance to listen to Asura 2.0


----------



## Saoshyant

Has anyone tried the Tennmak diy EC70?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

saoshyant said:


> Has anyone tried the Tennmak diy EC70?


 
  
 There are also a few other DIY versions I have been keeping my eye one like this design:  https://world.taobao.com/item/43985821330.htm
  

  
 ..


----------



## Saoshyant

I've been hearing a lot of good things about Tennmak lately, making this seem a little tempting.


----------



## music4mhell

audionewbi3 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > link for min vx plz
> ...


how is ur minx compre tp tomahawk or cygnus ?


----------



## ClieOS

music4mhell said:


> how is ur minx compre tp tomahawk or cygnus ?


 
  
 It is called M1N, as in M(one)N, btw. VX is quite good, well in the upper tier on the Great, but not as good as Cygnus.


----------



## music4mhell

clieos said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > how is ur minx compre tp tomahawk or cygnus ?
> ...


 
 Thank you so much for reply


----------



## music4mhell

Where is every one today ?


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> Where is every one today ?


i'm hear with Cygnus


----------



## gattari

golov17 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Where is every one today ?
> ...



Mine just arrived.


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Where is every one today ?
> ...


 
 So which one you prefer ? Cygnus/Zen/Tomahawk ?
 Do the ranking please


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> So which one you prefer ? Cygnus/Zen/Tomahawk ?
> Do the ranking please


zen2.0≥1.0>asura2.0>cygnus (price/SQ)


----------



## golov17

with all the beauty in Shozy there is a problem with the identity selection of the drivers in pair, I will buy another pair to make the final cut (for someone, perhaps, it is not critical, by the way)


----------



## gattari

golov17 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > So which one you prefer ? Cygnus/Zen/Tomahawk ?
> ...



Golov have you also the tomahawk?


----------



## golov17

I do not see the need to have it, as mx980 long ago lie in a box


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> I do not see the need to have it, as mx980 long ago lie in a box




But Tomahawk does not sound like MX980/985. The description on Ali express is incorrect in my opinion.


----------



## jrazmar

Has anyone heard the Blox TM7 nowadays? I'm still intrigued how it sounds compared to the current earbuds lineup and why it is up there with the Champions.


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> But Tomahawk does not sound like MX980/985. The description on Ali express is incorrect in my opinion.


maybe I have to choose between him and woody DK Jin buds..


----------



## Danneq

jrazmar said:


> Has anyone heard the Blox TM7 nowadays? I'm still intrigued how it sounds compared to the current earbuds lineup and why it is up there with the Champions.




For me it's still number one (but then again, number two on my earbud top 5 is Sony MDR-E252 from ca 1982-83...)


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> maybe I have to choose between him and woody DK Jin buds..




Both are great and different people might like different types of sound... But none of them sound like MX980 (and I like those very much). DK-Jin has got an intimate soundstage and a lot of punch in the sound. Tomahawk is like a colder and cleaner and more detailed Monk...


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> Both are great and different people might like different types of sound... But none of them sound like MX980 (and I like those very much). DK-Jin has got an intimate soundstage and a lot of punch in the sound. Tomahawk is like a colder and cleaner and more detailed Monk...


thanks, interesting for the future, bookmark


----------



## vapman

Speaking of which, if anyone's got DK Jins and wants to try out the Tomahawks, let me know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 
  
@Danneq I can't find anywhere selling the TM7. Is it an older model? Sorry because I glazed over Blox chat when we talked about them earlier in this thread.


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> Speaking of which, if anyone's got DK Jins and wants to try out the Tomahawks, let me know
> 
> @Danneq
> I can't find anywhere selling the TM7. Is it an older model? Sorry because I glazed over Blox chat when we talked about them earlier in this thread.




Blox' flagship earbud from around 2012...


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> Blox' flagship earbud from around 2012...


 
 I figured I was out of luck when Google brought me to reviews from 2012 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Let me know if Blox makes another one as good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 (Or if anyone's got a Zen 1.0 they don't mind selling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  
 edit: here's a question for you guys, given the opportunity to buy a NIB MX985 or a new Zen 2.0, which would you pick? for those who know both buds.


----------



## Joy Boy

audionewbi3 said:


> On a side note, just wanted to inform brother and sisters in the thread that the following seller (who speaks English, though not perfect) of earbud from Thailand will ship internationally.
> 
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.788074577971043.1073741959.409495712495600&type=3
> ...



Wow, you bought it? The good sound gadget?
Is it arrived already? Please share the impression




vapman said:


> I figured I was out of luck when Google brought me to reviews from 2012
> Let me know if Blox makes another one as good
> 
> (Or if anyone's got a Zen 1.0 they don't mind selling  )
> ...



Blox already made their new product. But it's on the level of m2c or be3. Not like TM/Anv3 series.

If you like wide soundstage and lively image, try mxm985. But if you like more relaxing, darker, more danceable, try ve zen 2.0.
It will be nice if you have that both "bud-king"


----------



## TDanz

golov17 said:


> thanks, interesting for the future, bookmark




Hello mr oleg, would you mind to reply my message in your FB thanks


----------



## gattari

If anyone like to work on this :

Let me know, yes it is an mx 980.


----------



## golov17

tdanz said:


> Hello mr oleg, would you mind to reply my message in your FB thanks





tdanz said:


> Hello mr oleg, would you mind to reply my message in your FB thanks


OK


----------



## golov17

gattari said:


> If anyone like to work on this :
> 
> Let me know, yes it is an mx 980.


this?


----------



## jpelg

Hey all - great thread. Nice to see the classic earbud form-factor still having a following.
  
 I'm particularly interested in high-impedance 'buds with >150ohms load. Here's the list I've compiled:
  
 Hifiman ES100 (150 ohms) - $69 (Amazon)
 VE Asura (150 ohms) - $78 (Aliexpress)
 Yuin PK1 (150 ohms) - $155 (Amazon)
 Yuin OK1 (150 ohms) - $225 (Amazon)
 Seahf 150 (150 ohms) - $ (???)
 VE Zen 2 (320 ohms) - $149 (Aliexpress)
 SeaHf 320 (320 ohms) - $  (???)
 Dark Horse G400 (400 ohms) - $137 (Aliexpress)
  
  
 Does that seem complete view of that portion of the current market?


----------



## gattari

Yes an old mx 980, I don't have manuality. Do you think is not a good idea to recable.


----------



## golov17

jpelg said:


> Hey all - great thread. Nice to see the classic earbud form-factor still having a following.
> 
> I'm particularly interested in high-impedance 'buds with >150ohms load. Here's the list I've compiled:
> 
> ...


DUNU EX150 & Meizu EP21HD


----------



## TDanz

Need advice..which one?


Or this one?


Both of them have same range price
Need earbud with warm sound and lush vocal
(Pls dont suggest vemonk or edifier because i've try it and dont like their highs)


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> jpelg said:
> 
> 
> > Hey all - great thread. Nice to see the classic earbud form-factor still having a following.
> ...


how is the sound of meizu ep21hd ?


----------



## music4mhell

jpelg said:


> Hey all - great thread. Nice to see the classic earbud form-factor still having a following.
> 
> I'm particularly interested in high-impedance 'buds with >150ohms load. Here's the list I've compiled:
> 
> ...


Dark horse G300 also


----------



## vapman

jpelg said:


> Hey all - great thread. Nice to see the classic earbud form-factor still having a following.
> 
> I'm particularly interested in high-impedance 'buds with >150ohms load. Here's the list I've compiled:
> 
> ...




With golov's additions I think that is all, yup.

I thought rose mojito was 120ohm but it's only 12 ohms?

BTW even though the Hifiman is the cheapest of those you posted prices for, it's my favorite of all & any earbud I've heard so far. I understand why some say it's too dark or lifeless, but I find it to have very good and honest sound reproduction. However if you like sparkle or "life" in your sound, consider an Asura or Zen.

The yuins are good but I don't think they're anything special compared to the Tomahawk or Asura.

Haven't heard the Dark Horse but I want to, and


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> how is the sound of meizu ep21hd ?


light, sweet & airy


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > how is the sound of meizu ep21hd ?
> ...


what abt the soundstage ?


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> what abt the soundstage ?


not champion, but this earset, lol


----------



## golov17

Meizu EP51 BT with APTX, not earbuds

I wait new model earbuds, lolz


----------



## Joy Boy

tdanz said:


> Need advice..which one?
> 
> 
> Or this one?
> ...



FAREAL sound a little bit similar with ve monk, with better clarity & detail. 
Jiushao e300 sound warm with a sweet, thick, and lush vocal. Very good detail & separation.
So if you dont like monk/edifier sound sig, better try jiushao e300. It's one of the best price to performance earbud too. IMHO


----------



## TDanz

joy boy said:


> FAREAL sound a little bit similar with ve monk, with better clarity & detail.
> Jiushao e300 sound warm with a sweet, thick, and lush vocal. Very good detail & separation.
> So if you dont like monk/edifier sound sig, better try jiushao e300. It's one of the best price to performance earbud too. IMHO



Wow..okay thanks for advice.
But if you have another advice (not always jiushao e300) pls do not hesitate to tell me
Thanks


----------



## music4mhell

Any1 has tries Sudio Earbud from Sweden ?
 I am thinking of getting one.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Just a heads up, 
The Darkhorse G150, G320 are the same as SeaHf 150, 320. They are all made by SeaHf but sold under another name. The G400 if not mistaken is also made by SeaHf.

For Fareal Earbuds, there is a rumour that Fareal with black cable uses VE Monk driver.


----------



## golov17

Ve old Monk drivers


----------



## ballog

audionewbi3 said:


> Just a heads up,
> The Darkhorse G150, G320 are the same as SeaHf 150, 320. They are all made by SeaHf but sold under another name. The G400 if not mistaken is also made by SeaHf.
> 
> For Fareal Earbuds, there is a rumour that Fareal with black cable uses VE Monk driver.




Guys are the Darkhorse G150/SeaHF 150 related to the VE Asura 1.0?


----------



## Blazer39

golov17 said:


> light, sweet & airy


 

 hmm..its only 10$ more than monk..
  
 can you compare both and which is better?
  
 the only earbud i ever tried is apple earpods, which i actually like the sound signature
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 but the clarity is..meh, kinda muddy and grainy.


----------



## Joy Boy

tdanz said:


> Wow..okay thanks for advice.
> But if you have another advice (not always jiushao e300) pls do not hesitate to tell me
> Thanks



Maybe Black Onyx Earbud suit the character you've searched too.




audionewbi3 said:


> Just a heads up,
> The Darkhorse G150, G320 are the same as SeaHf 150, 320. They are all made by SeaHf but sold under another name. The G400 if not mistaken is also made by SeaHf.
> 
> For Fareal Earbuds, there is a rumour that Fareal with black cable uses VE Monk driver.



I hear that fareal first batch (black housing with black cable) used old monk driver (monk red mark). They're produced by same factory too.
But fareal wih blue cable & twisted cable used different composition. And maybe that's why i feel familiar whean i hear fareal black at first. It's so similar with ve monk, but better clarity


----------



## vapman

If anyone owns both the Hifiman ES100 and Black Horse 400 I would LOVE a comparison.
  
 The ES100' are too dark some but spot on perfect forme  Curious to know how they stack up directly.


----------



## Frederick Wang

I had Rose Mojito for several days but eventually decided to return it, with reluctance, of course... 
  
 Everything that is said of its grand soundstage and micro-details is true, also it is very easy to drive, when plugged to my cellphone or laptop, the music is enjoyable. 
  
 But bass on the other hand is not its strong suit, but I'm not a bass-head either, I can live with the amount of bass it produce. 
  
 The thing that trigger off my decision was last night, when I used it to watch a 1987 English movie, Hope and Glory, the sound of motor engine and river currents, among others, appear very not "fidelitous" to the reality. 
  
 MHO from my perspective


----------



## music4mhell

Oh boy the magic or Heigi Foams.
 Now i can feel that bass impact on my Zen 2, Ting 
 Superb  Every one should try this quality Foams


----------



## music4mhell

frederick wang said:


> I had Rose Mojito for several days but eventually decided to return it, with reluctance, of course...
> 
> Everything that is said of its grand soundstage and micro-details is true, also it is very easy to drive, when plugged to my cellphone or laptop, the music is enjoyable.
> 
> ...


 
 Hmmm interesting


----------



## Frederick Wang

music4mhell said:


> Oh boy the magic or Heigi Foams.
> Now i can feel that bass impact on my Zen 2, Ting
> Superb  Every one should try this quality Foams


 
 I'm gonna choose form Ting and Tomahawk, I saw that you have both of them, would you please enlighten me on their differences? Thanks.


----------



## jrazmar

music4mhell said:


> Oh boy the magic or Heigi Foams.
> Now i can feel that bass impact on my Zen 2, Ting
> Superb  Every one should try this quality Foams


 
  
 where can I buy this? link please.


----------



## lexus91

Okay i know this is not an earbuds. But here's tomahawk iem. Early impressions : amazing amazing bass. (Well better fit and isolation)

Will do some comparisons with tomahawk later on.

edit: slightly v-shaped compared to original tomahawk. will try to use the spinfits and see how it fares. for me not bad at all since i'm used to v-shaped iem/headphones. but might bother some who's looking for tomahawk's bud exact replica in sound.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

joy boy said:


> Wow, you bought it? The good sound gadget?
> Is it arrived already? Please share the impression


 
  
 No problem mate, I will do so once they arrive. However, do not expect too much from my limited knowledge and vocabulary


----------



## music4mhell

frederick wang said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Oh boy the magic or Heigi Foams.
> ...


 
 I luv my Ting, the tomahawk is on the way, so you have to wait for some more day.
  
 1 thing is for sure, i enjoy Ting more than other earbuds like zen, cygnus, Dark Horse, Monk etc.


----------



## music4mhell

jrazmar said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Oh boy the magic or Heigi Foams.
> ...


 
 You can buy from penonaudio site or the penonaudio seller page on aliexpress.
 I bought from aliexpress. As i am in office, i have no access to both sites, so can't share the link now


----------



## Frederick Wang

I just found out that Mrz is selling a new product, a green version of Ting!
  
 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5-c.w4002-12351263810.34.bgE8sq&id=529433029900
  
  


  
  
 The price suggests a big downgrade(599 vs 188 rmb, it's cheeper than Tomahawk, but still named Ting). From the look of it, the front panel are different, but the literature pretty much states nothing that may shed light on the product itself. 
  
 I just inquired Mr Zhong about the difference, waiting for his answer.


----------



## golov17

blazer39 said:


> hmm..its only 10$ more than monk..
> 
> can you compare both and which is better?
> 
> ...


just, try this 
Original Meizu EP21HD Earphones for MX4 pro High Quality Headphone HIFI Headset with Remote MIC mx4 earphone
http://s.aliexpress.com/NZFrYjmU
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## golov17

jrazmar said:


> where can I buy this? link please.


http://m.shenzhenaudio.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=Hiegi


----------



## Frederick Wang

frederick wang said:


> I just found out that Mrz is selling a new product, a green version of Ting!
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5-c.w4002-12351263810.34.bgE8sq&id=529433029900
> 
> ...


 
 Mr. Zhong replied that the Limited version Ting has brighter treble and more details. Compared to the green Ting, Tomahawk is easier to drive, has better bass and warmer tone. That's so much for now.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

lexus91 said:


> Okay i know this is not an earbuds. But here's tomahawk iem. Early impressions : amazing amazing bass. (Well better fit and isolation)
> 
> Will do some comparisons with tomahawk later on.
> 
> edit: slightly v-shaped compared to original tomahawk. will try to use the spinfits and see how it fares. for me not bad at all since i'm used to v-shaped iem/headphones. but might bother some who's looking for tomahawk's bud exact replica in sound.


 


 Oooh! Nice!  My pair should be here any day.  
  
  
 Which version did you get?  There are three different ones;
*- Balanced *
*- High Definition *
*- Subwoofer (Bass Heavy)* 
  
  

 Mine is the *Balanced *version.  The first option:  https://world.taobao.com/item/527304931814.htm
  
 ..


----------



## jrazmar

golov17 said:


> http://m.shenzhenaudio.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=Hiegi




ordered! thanks golov.


----------



## n1xon

vapman said:


> Fiio EM3 if you like present highs


 
  
 How is the bass compared to others?
  


audionewbi3 said:


> If you listen to a lot of vocal or pop, try the Cygnus. Same shell


 
  
 I listen to a lot of things, my main concerns are comfort (which is why I mentioned the pk2s) and not requiring an amp. minor concern would be cord length.
  
 Thank you to both of you. If anyone else has suggestions for a earphones that don't require an amp, have the same shell or same comfort as the pk2s please let me know.


----------



## golov17

n1xon said:


> How is the bass compared to others?
> 
> 
> I listen to a lot of things, my main concerns are comfort (which is why I mentioned the pk2s) and not requiring an amp. minor concern would be cord length.
> ...


Shozy Cygnus better than pk2, really


----------



## yacobx




----------



## golov17

yacobx said:


>


----------



## yacobx

golov17 said:


> yacobx said:
> 
> 
> >






"Music gets me high" LOL


----------



## rggz

Nice picture @yacobx! I was thinking about putting some heat shrink (like that) or cable sleeve on my Cygnus when it arrives, cheap solution for aesthetics lol.


----------



## golov17

Del


----------



## Saoshyant

Random pictures with no purpose are kinda getting off topic


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> Random pictures with no purpose are kinda getting off topic


----------



## Spirulina780

Can anyone reccommend me an allround earbud for  60 usd or below that won't need an amplifier. 3D soundstage would be fun.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

spirulina780 said:


> Can anyone reccommend me an allround earbud for  60 usd or below that won't need an amplifier. 3D soundstage would be fun.


 
  
 MusicMaker Tomahawk.  Done.
  
 --


----------



## vapman

spirulina780 said:


> Can anyone reccommend me an allround earbud for  60 usd or below that won't need an amplifier. 3D soundstage would be fun.


 

 Tomahawk Z. it literally sounds no different with an amp than without an amp IMO. Soundstage is great too. Can't beat it for the quality you get. Sounds like many $80 buds that DO require an amp actually.


----------



## yacobx

saoshyant said:


> Random pictures with no purpose are kinda getting off topic




They have a purpose. The purpose of having fun.


----------



## n1xon

golov17 said:


> Shozy Cygnus better than pk2, really


 
  
 Thanks, safe place to order them from? ( US )


----------



## golov17

n1xon said:


> Thanks, safe place to order them from? ( US )


Penon, Aliexpress


----------



## yacobx

n1xon said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > Shozy Cygnus better than pk2, really
> ...


 

 I like Penon


----------



## AudioNewbi3

n1xon said:


> Thanks, safe place to order them from? ( US )




I live in SEA and I order from Penon


----------



## music4mhell

i asked easyearphone to list the new musicmaker ting cheaper version, they did in just one day, and i ordered, let see how it compares to tomahawk n ting.

2016 Go Pro Music Maker Ting Hifi Earbuds In Ear Earphone Alloy Tune Earbuds Such as Armature Earphone
http://s.aliexpress.com/JJjyyimu
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## AudioNewbi3

New bud?


----------



## music4mhell

audionewbi3 said:


> New bud?


this one is old, no gud reviews on it, may be midfi type, so i didn't buy it


----------



## ryanjsoo

Yeah, they look just like the other xiaomi buds, none of the reviews were positive unfortunately, I had high hopes as the piston 3`s were superb.


----------



## lexus91

I'm getting bass version. Bass punchy and tight. Very good quality. Slightly v shaped because of the elevated bass but spinfits helps them. 

Its basically tomahawk on steroids. Amazing imagimg, much better separations. 



bloodypenguin said:


> Oooh! Nice!  My pair should be here any day.
> 
> 
> Which version did you get?  There are three different ones;
> ...


----------



## Saoshyant

I haven't been paying much attention to the Ting, but is there a reason this new green one is a bit less expensive than the standard version?


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> I haven't been paying much attention to the Ting, but is there a reason this new green one is a bit less expensive than the standard version?


more bright sound sig (not for all)


----------



## Saoshyant

Good thing I'm not treble sensitive


----------



## music4mhell

saoshyant said:


> Good thing I'm not treble sensitive


i got the ting,

green ting and tomahawk are on the eayy, if you can hv some patience i will compare all three side by side


----------



## vapman

joy boy said:


> I love it. Very good bass quality. And it's famous by local modder as the best potential driver. If you modified it with de'mun cable and rhodium jack, it sound very great. The bass quality and impact could compete with even be zen 1 (i know it's crazy, right?)


 

 Is de'mun cable only from Taobao?
 if so, any other cable with similar quality?
 would like to just order everything at once from AliExpress 
  
 PS anyone can compare MX980/985 to cygnus? (and maybe Dark Horse if anyone is familiar with any combo of those 3?)
  
 also- if anyone knows how hifiman ES100 compares to higher end buds like Dark Horse, Zen, etc I would be interested to know, as ES100 is currently my 100% favorite earbud all around. I don't like a lot of sparkle in my soinds so they are dead flat honst and straight up. My favorite earbuds I own


----------



## golov17

Del


----------



## AudioNewbi3

saoshyant said:


> I haven't been paying much attention to the Ting, but is there a reason this new green one is a bit less expensive than the standard version?




That is what I woukd like to know too.


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> That is what I woukd like to know too.


 Read taobao market


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> Read taobao market


 
 Ah thanks for the heads up mate, must have missed it when I was glancing through the product page
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Edit: Read the description......
 A little bit warm and a little bit separated......if that makes any sense. hahaha


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Alright guys, below, after using my buds for sometime, I have had a general impressions of them and I would like to share my thoughts with fellow brothers and sisters here:

 *Bare in mind that this is just my own honest opinion and if you disagree, kindly state your comments. So onwards................

*Earbud Thailand BOE*
_Thick and lush vocals, good bass presence, highs are "rounded off" or smooth, okay soundstage_
_I use BOE for Vocal Jazz, from the like of Diana Krall to Lisa Ono _
  
*Tomahawks*
_I think these buds are balanced and slightly warm, very decent soundstage _
_Jacks of all trade, master of none  
 I mainly use this when I know I will switch between different genres of music during my listening session._
  
*DIY Dual Drivers*
_Amazing micro detail, wide soundstage, very lean bass, neutral sound signature, clean sounding, very nice highs
 I will use these earbuds when I want to listen to orchestral pieces, instrumental jazz, piano pieces from the likes of Joe Hisaishi  to Ludovico Einaudi._
  
*Shozy Cygnus*
_Very clean mids, bass is okay, overall to me, a better version of the Tomahawks , with emphasis on mids and to a certain extent highs, soundstage is not wide but deep. _
_Again, I mainly use Cygnus for my vocal jazz and j-pop music from artist like Lisa Ono to Utada Hikaru and my other Anime OST's_
  
*SeaHf 320Ohms*
_Very similar to the Earbud Thailand BOE, but less bass presence and a better soundstage and less emphasis on mids. Highs to my ears are the almost the same. Maybe the SeaHf is better? I am not sure =p But more balance sound signature compared to BOE
 I use this bud also mainly for Vocal Jazz and Instrumental Jazz and maybe piano pieces.
 When you listen to Vocal Jazz, you will feel like you are in an underground jazz bar._
  
 *Kindly note that this is purely my own impressions, all tracks are played out of my RBed Xduoo X3 to my Trasam HA2 (Extreme Edition) Amplifier.

 Hope this helps anyone.
 Cheers


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Someone needs to take my internet access away.
  
 I just ordered 4 more random earbuds off of Taobao.  Did I need them?  No.  I just love trying out different budget earbuds (all under $10 USD).
  
 Worst case, if they are bad, I just give them out to friends and family who are more than happy to use them.
  
  
 I just looked up my MisterTao account (the Taobao Agent I use) and I have bought 15 earbuds from them in a years time.  Of which I given most away as gifts.  Though a few gems in the mix like the Suvov S10/S20 and a fake Sennheiser MX500 that sounds pretty decent.  
  
 --


----------



## kurtextrem

my tomahawks arrived today (normal edition). Would you guys use them with donuts, full foam or no foam? Fit is great without already.
 In comparison with the Asura 2.0 the Tomahawks are way more airy (Asura full foam, Tomahawks no foam.. maybe because of that?)


----------



## AudioNewbi3

kurtextrem said:


> my tomahawks arrived today (normal edition). Would you guys use them with donuts, full foam or no foam? Fit is great without already.
> In comparison with the Asura 2.0 the Tomahawks are way more airy (Asura full foam, Tomahawks no foam.. maybe because of that?)


 
 I use mine with Heigi doughnuts foam.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

kurtextrem said:


> my tomahawks arrived today (normal edition). Would you guys use them with donuts, full foam or no foam? Fit is great without already.
> In comparison with the Asura 2.0 the Tomahawks are way more airy (Asura full foam, Tomahawks no foam.. maybe because of that?)


 
  
 With earbuds, just use what works best for you.  I like @AudioNewbi3 use Heigi doughnuts foam, but that doesn't mean it will work for you.
  
 Just try a bunch of different ways and listen for which sound you like the most.  
  
 --


----------



## rggz

My Tomahawk's arrives today too! Cygnus in the next week, oh boy, earbuds are dangers for wallet...

 First impression of Tomahawk's the cable is slight thinner than I thought looking for ad pictures, now I'll check how it sounds. : P


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> With earbuds, just use what works best for you.  I like @AudioNewbi3 use Heigi doughnuts foam, but that doesn't mean it will work for you.
> 
> Just try a bunch of different ways and listen for which sound you like the most.
> 
> --


 
 Yes, you are very much correct my friend. 
 Don't get limited by what we tell you, instead, experiment more! Like what Bloody Penguin mentioned, find the combination which you like the most!


----------



## vapman

I've got a spare set of Tomahawk because I went a little crazy during the Aliexpress sale. If anyone's in need of earbuds and doesn't want to wait from China I have waaaay more than I mentioned 
  
@AudioNewbi3 it sounds like you think the Cygnus has most bass of all, or am i wrong to assume that?


----------



## vapman

Major shouts out to *Hifiman*! My ES100 (favorite earbuds I own regardless of price) developed a buzzing in one of the drivers. Got in touch with their support, sent mine back, today is less than a week since I sent 'em back and I got a brand new set with me right now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 ES100 deserves more respect than it gets IMO, however I completely understand why people who aren't fans of dark & flat signatures wouldn't like it. Those who like sparkle in their treble need not apply


----------



## fleasbaby

If anyone is keen to get some Astrotec Lyra, Massdrop will do a drop if they get 200 requests:
  
 https://www.massdrop.com/buy/astrotec-lyra-earbuds


----------



## vapman

fleasbaby said:


> If anyone is keen to get some Astrotec Lyra, Massdrop will do a drop if they get 200 requests:
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/astrotec-lyra-earbuds


 

 Are these the "old Lyras" that have a lot of praise in this thread?
  
 I'm so happy to have my ES100 back again. I think I'm going to buy a second pair. I don't like additional sparkle not in the original recording and the ES100 are still the most neutral, honest, unbiased earbud I have ever heard. Asura 2.0 is VERY close to the ES100 sound but Asura has more emphasis on mids & vocals but still tends to favor the mids of the vocal range.
  
 the ES100 is more balanced and I find it has no bias at all towards any frequencies. When A/B the ES100 with the Monk, the Monk has significantly more present & mids, even compared to the Asura 2.0. It also has less treble sparkle. I notice a lot of people in this thread are a fan of a bit of sparkle, but I am not a very big fan of sparkle. I like my highs to be clear but subdued and can not stand overemphasis of highs or upper mids.
  
 The ES100 is extremely similar to the Sony MDR 7550 in terms of sound signature, I believe. It does not have the best bass extension of all earbuds I own, but it's without a question my favorite earbud I own currently.
  
 I would compare it to the Tomahawk in that it is a jack of all trades but I would never call the ES100 "master of nothing". It is the master of doing everything well.
  
 If it had bass like the Dasetn MC5 it would be a basshead's dream earbud. I would actually dare to call it a more refined MC5 with tighter bass and not quite as low extending.


----------



## vapman

Garage 1217 Project Starlight with 6h30p-dr. ES100 has most similar sound signature to my home stereo (hafler dh500, paradigm 7se, b&w DM5)


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> I've got a spare set of Tomahawk because I went a little crazy during the Aliexpress sale. If anyone's in need of earbuds and doesn't want to wait from China I have waaaay more than I mentioned
> 
> @AudioNewbi3 it sounds like you think the Cygnus has most bass of all, or am i wrong to assume that?


 
 In term of quantity alone, BOE has the most bass in my collection. However, in quality, the Shozy beats it.

 I feel that the base of the Shozy is very "tight" and it "hits" very accurately without sounding slow.


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> In term of quantity alone, BOE has the most bass in my collection. However, in quality, the Shozy beats it.
> 
> I feel that the base of the Shozy is very "tight" and it "hits" very accurately without sounding slow.


 

 thanks for the impression. My Cygnus is still stuck in China post and it's driving me nuts. I can't wait to hear it.
  
 Does it scale with amps better than the Tomahawk did? The Tomahawk really didn't care if you had a smartphone or a fancy tube amp, same sound out of both. Not a very pressing question... I'll have my Cygnus soon enough.
  
 At least the tracking has updated - the tracking for my Rose Mojitos is still "invalid"


----------



## goldenSHK

audionewbi3 said:


> In term of quantity alone, BOE has the most bass in my collection. However, in quality, the Shozy beats it.
> 
> I feel that the base of the Shozy is very "tight" and it "hits" very accurately without sounding slow.


 
 Shozy has more bass than a Zen 2.0? I thought Zen 2.0 has the warmest sound of the high end buds?


----------



## vapman

goldenshk said:


> Shozy has more bass than a Zen 2.0? I thought Zen 2.0 has the warmest sound of the high end buds?


 

 I don't think he owns Zen 2.0
 I don't either, but I really want to buy some.


----------



## kurtextrem

So compared to the Asura 2.0, the Tomahawk sound is airy for me (maybe slightly tinny, but I think it's airy). Tried donut, full and no foam... full is a mix between airy and "normal".
 I guess I've found my "open headset" vs "closed headset", but for earbuds lol
  
 When listening with the Tomahawks I feel like music and voice is slightly divided (that is a good thing), but the sound is not as full as with the Asura 2.0's. With them I can hear every ever so slight detail in the music; for me those details sometimes make the singer voice fade into the background. But I think Asuras bass is a little lacking, but I can't compare...
 Guess time for Cygnus?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> thanks for the impression. My Cygnus is still stuck in China post and it's driving me nuts. I can't wait to hear it.
> 
> Does it scale with amps better than the Tomahawk did? The Tomahawk really didn't care if you had a smartphone or a fancy tube amp, same sound out of both. Not a very pressing question... I'll have my Cygnus soon enough.
> 
> At least the tracking has updated - the tracking for my Rose Mojitos is still "invalid"


 
  
 Hmm, I am sorry, but I seldom go unamped when using my earbuds. Even if I did, I still may not accurately describe the sound signature. I am sorry. 


goldenshk said:


> Shozy has more bass than a Zen 2.0? I thought Zen 2.0 has the warmest sound of the high end buds?


 
 Never did I mention the Shozy was better than Zen. Heck, I do not even own a Zen hahaha.


----------



## TDanz

Does anyone know about boarseman k25s and boarseman mx98s?
How about their sound?


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> Hmm, I am sorry, but I seldom go unamped when using my earbuds. Even if I did, I still may not accurately describe the sound signature. I am sorry.
> Never did I mention the Shozy was better than Zen. Heck, I do not even own a Zen hahaha.


 

 There is no right or wrong when describing sound signature! It is as subjective as describing colors 
  
 You can tell someone something's a flat red and someone else will call it a bright red. It's all relative, so no need to worry too much about getting it perfect.


----------



## gattari

We need an audiophile master to describe the sound


----------



## gattari

Anyway I try to describe what I don't like in Chozy Cignus:
 To me it's a little bit too sweet I like more energetic signature. not the best in neutrality.
  
 What I like
 Overall these have a good sound, tridimensional, soundstage ok, high airy quite extensive and never annoying.Cygnus also have good layering sound and micro detail.
  
 All naturally imho


----------



## Joy Boy

tdanz said:


> Does anyone know about boarseman k25s and boarseman mx98s?
> How about their sound?



K25s is allrounder. Nothing more or less special from its sound.
Mx98s is warm, midcentric earbud. Thick vocal, but still good detail.
If you like "fast" music (metal, progressive,etc), you should try mx98 (without "s"). Its best bud under $50 on my list




gattari said:


> Anyway I try to describe what I don't like in Chozy Cignus:
> To me it's a little bit too sweet I like more energetic signature. not the best in neutrality.
> 
> What I like
> ...



If you seacrh for energetic sound but sound sign still like cygnus (may be better), ve zen v1 is the best choice, i think


----------



## gattari

Thanks Joyboy, actually can I buy the zen1 or only zen 2 in Aliexpress?


----------



## diavolo rosso

hello all
  
 anyone know what is upgrade from edifier H185 for under $40?


----------



## TDanz

joy boy said:


> K25s is allrounder. Nothing more or less special from its sound.
> Mx98s is warm, midcentric earbud. Thick vocal, but still good detail.
> If you like "fast" music (metal, progressive,etc), you should try mx98 (without "s"). Its best bud under $50 on my list




Are they (mx98 with "s" and without "s") have big difference?


----------



## Joy Boy

gattari said:


> Thanks Joyboy, actually can I buy the zen1 or only zen 2 in Aliexpress?



Unfortunately, Zen v1 is discontinued. Not sure if there's seller out there has its stock. May be a few years later it will be a treasure like TM7




tdanz said:


> Are they (mx98 with "s" and without "s") have big difference?



Very big difference. Mx98s is very good in vocal. Thick & lush. But for bass its kinda decay. Not good in fast genre.
Mx98 is balance to bright. Some say it's cold. Lean bass but very good impact. And instrumen detail is superb. But vocal is laidback and thin


----------



## Lionlian

Mx980 and mx985 has a questionable cable build quality and they are discontinued.
 Blox tm7 are discontinued as well, that made the VE ZEN is the King of this era,
 I shall tryout how good the Princess (Ve monk) is first.


----------



## vapman

@Joy Boy I remember the cable you linked me when we were discussing upgrading the Edifier 180. Is Taobao the only place to get that cable and do you know what makes it so special? as in is there a reason to get that cable over another similarly priced cable?
  
 I don't really know where to look for cables meant for recabling IEM & earbuds so I'm just listening to your' guys advice!


----------



## ClieOS

lionlian said:


> Mx980 and mx985 has a questionable cable build quality and they are discontinued.
> Blox tm7 are discontinued as well, that made the VE ZEN is the King of this era,
> I shall tryout how good the Princess (Ve monk) is first.


 
  
 You can still find MX985 in Japan and China (not cheap though), which are really where they are mostly being sold and probably where Sennheiser keep most of their stock.
  
 I think I am fair to say Sennheiser never really got their cable right, and the issue goes back much longer than just MX98x era and pretty much affects most of their better earbuds for a decade or two. The cable they use are of good quality at first look, but have the tendency to degrade fast in less than perfect storage condition (which is hard to ask anyone to keep unless you never use them at all). I am actually in the process of recabling my MX90VC at the moment. Funny is that their lower end earbuds tends to have less-then-best-looking cable yet usually last longer.
  


vapman said:


> I don't really know where to look for cables meant for recabling IEM & earbuds so I'm just listening to your' guys advice!


 
  
 Lunashops sells decently priced cable. I use their cable for my ER4 recabling project and probably will again on my MX90VC recabling as well.


----------



## vapman

clieos said:


> Lunashops sells decently priced cable. I use their cable for my ER4 recabling project and probably will again on my MX90VC recabling as well.


 
 Thanks for the quick response 
  
 BTW your Mojito came with 2 cables, right? Not that I'd butcher a 2 pin cable to rewire earbuds but just curious how you think of them.
  
 But the seller only shipped my Mojito yesterday despite ordering over a week ago. grrrrrr. I don't think I'll be using this one Aliexpress seller again.


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> @Joy Boy
> I remember the cable you linked me when we were discussing upgrading the Edifier 180. Is Taobao the only place to get that cable and do you know what makes it so special? as in is there a reason to get that cable over another similarly priced cable?
> 
> I don't really know where to look for cables meant for recabling IEM & earbuds so I'm just listening to your' guys advice!



De'mun cable? I'm not a modder. But in my country there's so many modder and variaty of cable they used. There're copper, super copper, silvercoated, pure silver, even gold plated silver. 
Many of them bought it from taobao. I'm not sure where to buy the cable on the link i've ever post. 
I'll ask my friend in local forum. I'm sorry



lionlian said:


> Mx980 and mx985 has a questionable cable build quality and they are discontinued.
> Blox tm7 are discontinued as well, that made the VE ZEN is the King of this era,
> I shall tryout how good the Princess (Ve monk) is first.



I agree with you. Considering TM7 sold out everywhere, while mx985 is very rare too and if it's available, the price is so damn expensive. Ve Zen is the king that we could reach so far.
But ve zen v.1 (one of king earbud in ClieOs list) is nearly extinct too. Discontinued and only a few stock in market. If you could find one of it, buy it and keep it. Got a feeling that it would be a legendary like TM7. IMO


----------



## ClieOS

vapman said:


> Thanks for the quick response
> 
> BTW your Mojito came with 2 cables, right? Not that I'd butcher a 2 pin cable to rewire earbuds but just curious how you think of them.
> 
> But the seller only shipped my Mojito yesterday despite ordering over a week ago. grrrrrr. I don't think I'll be using this one Aliexpress seller again.


 
  
 Yes, Mojito comes with two cables - the braided black cable and the white cable. Haven't spend much time on the white cable and the black cable works just fine for me. They are not particularly special cable by any mean and won't be my choice for recabling (but obviously can do the job if you want it to).
  
 This is the Lunashops cable I used: link. I have probably built at least 15~20 ER4 replacement cable out of it and I am quite happy with its build quality.
  


joy boy said:


> De'mun cable? I'm not a modder. But in my country there's so many modder and variaty of cable they used. There're copper, super copper, silvercoated, pure silver, even gold plated silver.
> Many of them bought it from taobao. I'm not sure where to buy the cable on the link i've ever post.
> I'll ask my friend in local forum. I'm sorry
> ...


 
  
 Just a word of caution: it is really hard to tell how legit Taobao cable are from time to time. So I won't want to spent too much money on them as you might not getting what you've paid for.


----------



## vapman

Joy Boy please do not apologize! Your answer was very helpful 

I'm just curious as there is no documentation of the de'mun on English language forums.


----------



## Joy Boy

clieos said:


> Just a word of caution: it is really hard to tell how legit Taobao cable are from time to time. So I won't want to spent too much money on them as you might not getting what you've paid for.



Yeah, i've heard it. Maybe you should buy it or aks for help from local modder, considering they have experience with it



vapman said:


> Joy Boy please do not apologize! Your answer was very helpful
> 
> I'm just curious as there is no documentation of the de'mun on English language forums.



Thanks 

Btw, may be you can ask my friend in this facebook page. De'mun cable is his specialization: https://m.facebook.com/Demun-1712608572317586/


----------



## music4mhell

hmmm, this thread is getting more attention now a days..

gud for all earbud lovers ..


----------



## endia

clieos said:


> This is the Lunashops cable I used: link. I have probably built at least 15~20 ER4 replacement cable out of it and I am quite happy with its build quality.




ClieOS, how is its' microphonics? thanks..


----------



## ClieOS

endia said:


> ClieOS, how is its' microphonics? thanks..


 
  
 As in on ER4 cable? There is pretty much no microphonics on it.


----------



## endia

clieos said:


> As in on ER4 cable? There is pretty much no microphonics on it.


does it depend where to connect them? I'm planning to build a custom cable for flc8s..
thank you very much.


----------



## ClieOS

endia said:


> does it depend where to connect them? I'm planning to build a custom cable for flc8s..
> thank you very much.


 
  
 If it is going over-the-ears then microphonics won't be a problem for most cable.


----------



## rggz

Well, my initial impressions of Tomahawk's are good! I'm trying to use now with fit like E100* which I'm used and the narrow soundstage sensation of Tomahawks looks slight wide and mids/vocals a bit more neutral fitting in this way, very sweet. *picture (sorry for bad quality, old logitech webcam).


----------



## Joy Boy

Hi all, i remember someone here has hifiman es100. How is it sound? Is it worth on it's price?
I'm interesting because i love all Hifiman DAP. But never try it's bud. Maybe it's great to have one


----------



## haiku

joy boy said:


> Hi all, i remember someone here has hifiman es100. How is it sound? Is it worth on it's price?
> I'm interesting because i love all Hifiman DAP. But never try it's bud. Maybe it's great to have one


 

 I have it. It´s airy and has good mids, but imo it lacks bass. Price? Well, compared to the Monk almost all earbuds are too expensive. But I like it more than the Stagediver SD2 I also own.


----------



## Joy Boy

haiku said:


> I have it. It´s airy and has good miss, but imo it lacks bass. Price? Well, compared to the Monk almost all earbuds are too expensive. But I like it more than the Stagediver SD2 I also own.



Thanks mate. As i guess, neautral buds always lack of bass. May be you've ever compared it to tomahawk? I have chance to get this bud from my friend only $35, as i see the new one in amazone is around $69


----------



## haiku

joy boy said:


> Thanks mate. As i guess, neautral buds always lack of bass. May be you've ever compared it to tomahawk? I have chance to get this bud from my friend only $35, as i see the new one in amazone is around $69


 

 It´s neutral, but also kinda sweet sounding. No, I haven´t heard the tomahawk, but if you don´t know the VE Monks, I´d suggest listening to them first, before you think about spending more money. They might be all you need.


----------



## Joy Boy

haiku said:


> It´s neutral, but also kinda sweet sounding. No, I haven´t heard the tomahawk, but if you don´t know the VE Monks, I´d suggest listening to them first, before you think about spending more money. They might be all you need.



Thanks for the advice. I already have ve monk, asura beta&v1, ve zen 1&2, tomahawk.
Just wanna try different sound


----------



## fleasbaby

Looks like it's going to be a busy week for me. I should be seeing my Monk Plus, Tomahawk and hopefully my Shozy Cygnus as well over the next few days...

Been listening mostly to my Asura 2.0 lately...


----------



## vapman

joy boy said:


> Hi all, i remember someone here has hifiman es100. How is it sound? Is it worth on it's price?
> I'm interesting because i love all Hifiman DAP. But never try it's bud. Maybe it's great to have one




Did you see the pic of my ES100 with my g1217 amp a few pages ago?

They are my favorite earbud. Period. I have not yet heard Zen or Cygnus but the only thing that could make ES100 better IMO is a bit better bass extension.

I seem to be in the minority for loving ES100 but all other earbuds I find are not as balanced or honest sounding.

They sound like nothing else you have. Probably closest to asura 2.0 but ES100 is better at.. well... everything IMO. Except maybe female vocals.


----------



## vapman

fleasbaby said:


> Looks like it's going to be a busy week for me. I should be seeing my Monk Plus, Tomahawk and hopefully my Shozy Cygnus as well over the next few days...
> 
> Been listening mostly to my Asura 2.0 lately...




Almost the same here  got the asura 2.0 and tomahawk out the door, and monk plus/zen2.0/rose mojito/cygnus on their way in!


----------



## vapman

I lost the auction for the MX985 on ebay, haha. My max bid was 95 but it sold for just shy of 130. Did anyone here get it?


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> Did you see the pic of my ES100 with my g1217 amp a few pages ago?
> 
> They are my favorite earbud. Period. I have not yet heard Zen or Cygnus but the only thing that could make ES100 better IMO is a bit better bass extension.
> 
> ...



But unfortunately my dap is bright type too. Lack of bass, not sure if i use it with es100 it will extend the bass. And i'm not an "amp" guy. Much prefer direct set up for daily.
Maybe i'll try es100 or gramo one someday. Thx mate


----------



## vapman

joy boy said:


> But unfortunately my dap is bright type too. Lack of bass, not sure if i use it with es100 it will extend the bass. And i'm not an "amp" guy. Much prefer direct set up for daily.
> Maybe i'll try es100 or gramo one someday. Thx mate


 

 The only thing to keep in mind then, is they're 150ohm. My Xduoo X3 can do about 200mW/32 ohms and I have to keep volume at ~70 where I usually use ~50. If your DAP is weak they might not be a good mix. But if they can power the ES100 they are so amazing. The detail and accuracy is really amazing.


----------



## golov17

soon $5


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Guys, can anyone kindly pitch the Monk+ against the Monks and Tomohawks? 

Thank you


----------



## goldenSHK

VE Monk+ is on sale now, just picked up 2 pairs, let's see how they do against everything else. 
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Venture-Electronic-VE-MONK-earbud-earphone/32417311324.html


----------



## music4mhell

goldenshk said:


> VE Monk+ is on sale now, just picked up 2 pairs, let's see how they do against everything else.
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Venture-Electronic-VE-MONK-earbud-earphone/32417311324.html


 
 Ordered 2


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Too bad monk plus is not yet available on Taobao. Guess Lee is prioritizing AE first? maybe?


----------



## ryanjsoo

audionewbi3 said:


> Guys, can anyone kindly pitch the Monk+ against the Monks and Tomohawks?
> 
> Thank you


 
  
 Just ordered the Monk+ and ordered the Tomahawks last week. Hopefully I`ll make another comparison review in the coming weeks.


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Too bad monk plus is not yet available on Taobao. Guess Lee is prioritizing AE first? maybe?


maybe... soon?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> maybe... soon?


 
 Golov, those are just the accessories.
 The title says
 Earbud assessors set.


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Golov, those are just the accessories.
> 
> The title says
> 
> Earbud assessors set.


yup..


----------



## radosuaf

I just got myself a Moto G 3rd and it comes without a headset. I currently have the standard phones that come with Lumia 735 and Quadbeats 3 - don't like them at all. Lumia headset, unfortunately, has no remote control.
 So, I'm looking for earbuds (don't want anything isolating, I like to hear what's happening around) with at least volume controls + answering calls, next/previous track/FM station would be a very welcome addition. I want something wired, of course. They will be used for running, but nothing really special - the Lumia standard ones do well in terms of fit, so I guess 95% of headphones will do.
 I don't want to pay more than 25 USD .
  
 I found Sony STH30 (which come in lovely lime colour that would fit my phone perfectly) for around 19 USD here and also AKG Y16A for around 25 USD so far. Which would be better or is there anything else I should look for?


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> The only thing to keep in mind then, is they're 150ohm. My Xduoo X3 can do about 200mW/32 ohms and I have to keep volume at ~70 where I usually use ~50. If your DAP is weak they might not be a good mix. But if they can power the ES100 they are so amazing. The detail and accuracy is really amazing.



My DAP is Xduoo X2 mod ver.
Yeah it can drive even ve zen, but i think the sound that came out wasn't the best it can produce.
Maybe i should pair it with xduoo xq-10 or other "small size" amp to keep its portability.

And anyone here could share comparation monk vs monk+?
I hope it sounds better than ordinary monk


----------



## gattari

Just ordered zen 2. This is the last order, I promise to myself.
No more no more. Stop.


----------



## Decommo

I was away over a week and just came here to check what I have been missing and surprised to find out Monk + came out. I just placed an order of complete set of Monk + with full accessories. Hope it is improved version of original Monk.


----------



## golov17

decommo said:


> I was away over a week and just came here to check what I have been missing and surprised to find out Monk + came out. I just placed an order of complete set of Monk + with full accessories. Hope it is improved version of original Monk.


 Yup


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> Yup


 
 I see that you already own the Monks, based on post on FB ELI Group hahaha.

 So how do they compare to regular Monks? Better?


----------



## golov17

For me, yes. Also, there are differences, less brightness, excellent vocals, I like them!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Sweet, I ordered the Monk Plus with Extension Pack.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   Because I need more earbuds...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 --


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> For me, yes. Also, there are differences, less brightness, excellent vocals, I like them!


 
  
 Ah okay okay. Thanks for the info.
  


bloodypenguin said:


> Sweet, I ordered the Monk Plus with Extension Pack.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Can you do a comparison of it vs the Tomahawks and BOE once it arrives?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> Ah okay okay. Thanks for the info.
> 
> 
> Can you do a comparison of it vs the Tomahawks and BOE once it arrives?


 
  
 Of course I will!  
  
 --


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> Of course I will!
> 
> --


 
 Epic! Thanks mate!


----------



## golov17

excellent foams for better sound! Better than even Hiegi!


----------



## DarkZenith

What are those ?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Fluffy _and_ sparkly ? Neeeeed !
  
 No, seriously, golov : link, please.


----------



## mochill

new VE foam from the expansion pack


----------



## stilleh

Received the Shozy Cygnus today. Cable is so soft and smooth and shells are so comfy. Initial impression is that the sound is very congested and the music feels damp and muddy out of the Fiio X7. Can't believe I've read posts that compare and equal these to the VE Zen 2.0 (I have the black edition). They are nowhere near the Zens which are in a whole other league. Hoping burnin will open them up some but they will have to change _a lot_ to be anywhere near...


----------



## gattari

Let pass two or tree day, initially I had your same impression.


----------



## golov17

gattari said:


> Let pass two or tree day, initially I had your same impression.


amen


----------



## golov17

darkzenith said:


> What are those ?! :eek:
> Fluffy _and_ sparkly ? Neeeeed !
> 
> No, seriously, golov : link, please.



http://s.aliexpress.com/jmiiUZbq


----------



## DarkZenith

Oh, OK... Thanks.


----------



## Lionlian

I just order VE Monk a few days ago, and now that I found they have Monk+...
 I hope they're not too far off in SQ.


----------



## Lionlian

The one good thing is monk+ and zen 2.0 seem to look exactly alike, so I shall have no problem to discern between Original monk and zen 2.0 at all.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

So, another day, another bud arrives........from THAILAND!
 My Black Bud Supreme from Good Sound Gadget finally arrive, after placing an order on April the 4th.


  

  
 First impression, the bud came with a ton of foams, 10 pairs to be precise, from doughnuts to full foams.....(though admittedly, I ripped through a pair of red full foams when I tried to changed them) Build quality is excellent, the cable may be one of the thickest in my collection yet (non-braided). It is thicker than even the cable of Hifiman ES100 or Earbud Thailand's BOE! (Btw, I got the V-Monk cables) The buds feel indestructible.
  

  
 So here is my current set up, RB Xduoo X3 ===> DIY Cable ===> Trasam HA2 Extreme Edition.

 Initial impressions:

 The mids reminded me of my Cygnus.....yeah...no kidding, but is it as good as the Cygnus, not quite but close I guess. 
  
 The highs on the buds! Oh my god! They just sparkle. Though maybe due to insufficient burn-in they borderline being sibilant. Still, the highs........oh so glorious. Strings sounds so good on them.
  
 Soundstaging is also very good, wider than the Tomahawks, but not deeper than the Cygnus.
  
 Bass is good, but not abundant. It is there when you need it and do not bleed into the mids. It is what I would describe it to be "tight" and "quick"
  
 I think I just have found another bud which I consider to be Jack of all trade, but this time, I would call the Supreme master of "bright" I guess.
  
 Thank-you 

_*Kindly note that these are my own personal impression after having receive and listening to the bud with ZERO burn in! My usage of vocabulary may also lead to some confusion as they reflect my own personal preference and limited ability to describe how they sound.

 *Kindly take my impressions with a grain of salt and as always, YMMW_ 
  
 Link to GSG on FB
https://www.facebook.com/GoodSoundGG/timeline
  
 For inquiries, kindly fb message or email them.


----------



## yacobx

Del


----------



## jant71

Another newish bud...http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-New-ES-01-Extreme-Queen-In-Ear-Earbuds-In-Ear-Earphone-Alloy-Tune-Earbuds-DIY/519064_32651803338.html
  
 Other than "like Musicmaker" earbuds not much to go on as far as what they may sound like. Easy picks out good/more proven stuff. Probably solid but we need more info.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

jant71 said:


> Another newish bud...http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-New-ES-01-Extreme-Queen-In-Ear-Earbuds-In-Ear-Earphone-Alloy-Tune-Earbuds-DIY/519064_32651803338.html
> 
> Other than "like Musicmaker" earbuds not much to go on as far as what they may sound like. Easy picks out good/more proven stuff. Probably solid but we need more info.


 
 Basically those are NOS JVC earbuds which have been recabled. I mentioned those before in a previous post

 According to the original seller of the buds, the original cable which came with the bud was cut off by the Chinese Customs (why? I do not know) and he has since recabled them.

 Suitable for rock, pop and basically an omnivorous earbud

 *Link on Taobao
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5-c.w4002-2090463127.103.UbUQF5&id=40825121925


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> Basically those are NOS JVC earbuds which have been recabled. I mentioned those before in a previous post
> 
> According to the original seller of the buds, the original cable which came with the bud was cut off by the Chinese Customs *(why? I do not know)* and he has since recabled them.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Import like these are generally referred as 'foreign trash' by the Chinese, similar to large scare 2nd hand import by the grey market importer. That means they don't pay tax as normal goods and often declare for recycle, so custom agent cut the wire to ensure they won't be repackaged and sold as normal goods.
  
 I'll say the housing does look too much like the old Audio Technica ATH-CM7, make me wonder how true they are actually JVC.


----------



## jant71

I don't recognize those as a JVC model or that particular JVC logo but I do as a possible Cresyn variant. That might explain why they were cut when they came in. JVC may have been able to brand a Cresyn for a particular market only and would be destroyed coming in. That JVC logo with the blocks floating off makes me think they are not a Japanese JVC almost as much as the AT/Cresyn relationship which would make those not a possibility in Japan. 
  
 If an old Cresyn they would be solid and could benefit from today's Earhoox and such to coax more bass out of them.


----------



## fleasbaby

Had a slew of stuff come in with last night's mail...the Monk Plus, the Tomahawk and the Cygnus. Also got a mystery IEM with the Cygnus, by Shozy, that's made out of wood. Asking them for details.
  
 When I got the Cygnus, I also picked up their DAP, the Alien, since I have been following it for a while. Going to be a fun week.
  
 Listening to the Monk Plus from the Alien right now...it's going to be hard to tear myself away and try the other buds! LOL...


----------



## clee290

fleasbaby said:


> Had a slew of stuff come in with last night's mail...the Monk Plus, the Tomahawk and the Cygnus. Also got a mystery IEM with the Cygnus, by Shozy, that's made out of wood. Asking them for details.
> 
> When I got the Cygnus, I also picked up their DAP, the Alien, since I have been following it for a while. Going to be a fun week.
> 
> Listening to the Monk Plus from the Alien right now...it's going to be hard to tear myself away and try the other buds! LOL...


 

 Could be this? Shozy Zero


----------



## fleasbaby

clee290 said:


> Could be this? Shozy Zero


 
  
 That's the one it seems ...came in a packet, no case, a few extra tips, nothing else. Had a brief listen on my X5 gen 1 last night. Very nice sound signature. And for once, with an IEM, I didn't hear myself breathing.


----------



## Saoshyant

fleasbaby said:


> Had a slew of stuff come in with last night's mail...the Monk Plus, the Tomahawk and the Cygnus. Also got a mystery IEM with the Cygnus, by Shozy, that's made out of wood. Asking them for details.
> 
> When I got the Cygnus, I also picked up their DAP, the Alien, since I have been following it for a while. Going to be a fun week.
> 
> Listening to the Monk Plus from the Alien right now...it's going to be hard to tear myself away and try the other buds! LOL...




Sounds like the Shozy Zero, please post your impressions of it in the Asian thread as I know there are people who are quite curious about Shozy's new wooden IEM.


----------



## Tomasz2D

This new Monk+. Looking at printed logo, is it Minecraft edition?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Import like these are generally referred as 'foreign trash' by the Chinese, similar to large scare 2nd hand import by the grey market importer. That means they don't pay tax as normal goods and often declare for recycle, so custom agent cut the wire to ensure they won't be repackaged and sold as normal goods.
> 
> I'll say the housing does look too much like the old Audio Technica ATH-CM7, make me wonder how true they are actually JVC.


 
  
  


jant71 said:


> I don't recognize those as a JVC model or that particular JVC logo but I do as a possible Cresyn variant. That might explain why they were cut when they came in. JVC may have been able to brand a Cresyn for a particular market only and would be destroyed coming in. That JVC logo with the blocks floating off makes me think they are not a Japanese JVC almost as much as the AT/Cresyn relationship which would make those not a possibility in Japan.
> 
> If an old Cresyn they would be solid and could benefit from today's Earhoox and such to coax more bass out of them.


 
  
 I guess one really never stops learning about new things do they eh? 

 Thank-you to both of you for the very informative reply! I have learned a lot of new things


----------



## AudioNewbi3

fleasbaby said:


> Had a slew of stuff come in with last night's mail...the Monk Plus, the Tomahawk and the Cygnus. Also got a mystery IEM with the Cygnus, by Shozy, that's made out of wood. Asking them for details.
> 
> When I got the Cygnus, I also picked up their DAP, the Alien, since I have been following it for a while. Going to be a fun week.
> 
> Listening to the Monk Plus from the Alien right now...it's going to be hard to tear myself away and try the other buds! LOL...


 
 Monk+ vs Tomahawks vs Cygnus


----------



## golov17

clee290 said:


> Could be this? Shozy Zero


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=578488598998920&id=163023947212056&ref=m_notif&notif_t=group_comment


----------



## golov17

http://s.aliexpress.com/2iy2Q3yu


----------



## vapman

I've had my Cygnus for a day now and I can say I would not miss the Asura 2.0 or Tomahawk at all with these.
  
 I preferred the Asura 2.0 to the Tomahawk's sound, especially when amped, but Cygnus is best to me.
  
 I did the ultimate test IMO - recordings I made myself as well as some of my favorite tracks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I feel the Cygnus is closer to the Asura 2.0 sound than the Tomahawk. The bass on it is my favorite of all my earbuds though. Really deep and good extension. I don't have Zen 2.0 yet but I have Dasetn MC5. These have better depth, extension and refinement. MC5 has more bass impact though. I'm using full foams from some VE's right now just to tame the highs a bit. I think this earbud will open up more with time too, that said that soundstage is still pretty great, and the overall sound is very balanced and honest. Like the ES100 but more fun.
  
 Build quality beats all other mentioned earbuds. Tomahawk and Asura 2.0 are both very good, don't get me wrong, but the Cygnus' cable is exceptional.
  
 Still, if you only have the Cygnus and never heard the Asura or Tomahawk, well maybe you can skip the Tomahawk (especially if you amp) but check out the Asura.
  
 I think if you like a brighter sound then the Tomahawk is for you.
  
 Personally... ES100 > Cygnus > Asura 2.0 > E100 / Monk tie > MC5 > Tomahawk


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> I've had my Cygnus for a day now and I can say I would not miss the Asura 2.0 or Tomahawk at all with these.
> 
> I preferred the Asura 2.0 to the Tomahawk's sound, especially when amped, but Cygnus is best to me.
> 
> ...




Nice write up mate!


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> Nice write up mate!


 

 I feel like I didn't touch on a lot of other points people might be curious about, so feel free to ask if you have any other questions. I'm very glad I got them if that wasn't clear.
  
 I think I'm going to keep my Cygnus in my ASG 2.5's case and my ASG 2.5's in my Cygnus case! It's so nice and roomy. Yet it's almost funny when you upen the case up because it takes up so little of the case.
  
 edit: i find myself listening to my Cygnus louder than usual... not cause I need to but because it's so much fun to listen to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyone else?


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> audionewbi3 said:
> 
> 
> > Nice write up mate!
> ...


 
 Try the new Musicmaker Ting, i feel it's more musical than all other earbuds


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> Try the new Musicmaker Ting, i feel it's more musical than all other earbuds


 

 I have been wanting to try Ting. But my concerns are same as Tomahawk: no noticable improvement when using an amp vs. directly out of a DAP/phone/etc, Or does it respond  to amping better? If they are a bit less bright than Tomahawk I'd try them


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Try the new Musicmaker Ting, i feel it's more musical than all other earbuds
> ...


 
 My tomahawk just reached my local post office, i will get it today, i will tell you the difference between Tomahawk and Ting later of today


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> My tomahawk just reached my local post office, i will get it today, i will tell you the difference between Tomahawk and Ting later of today


 

 Let me know how you think about it vs. Cygnus as well! We have a lot of the same gear I just noticed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'll have Zen 2.0 any day. Wish I had bought it sooner though!


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > My tomahawk just reached my local post office, i will get it today, i will tell you the difference between Tomahawk and Ting later of today
> ...


 
 I am just a newbie, around 3 months old in Headfi & high end audio gear.
 You are far more experienced than me  May be someday i will gain as much knowledge like you


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> I am just a newbie, around 3 months old in Headfi & high end audio gear.
> You are far more experienced than me  May be someday i will gain as much knowledge like you


 

 Well, for a newbie you're doing really well! I've been on Head Fi since 2006 and I too prefer the Mojo and Xduoo X3. so that's a good sign you have good taste 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I hear a lot of newer guys like you say stuff like this, but always like to remind everyone, one doesn't need experience to be able to have their own opinion. Everyone here has a different opinion and personal taste, so everything anyone says here is totally subjective and opinion and equally valid whether they've been here 15 years or 1 day IMO


----------



## Lionlian

I used to get mx980 from japan around $100, and now is up to $300 both mx980/985, deal break lol.


----------



## kurtextrem

vapman said:


> Personally... ES100 > Cygnus > Asura 2.0 > E100 / Monk tie > MC5 > Tomahawk


 
 So.... should I go with ES100 directly (as upgrade to the Asura 2.0), or should I wait for Ting vs Cygnus?
  
 By the way, I'm not using any amp... just straight out of my PC/Laptop


----------



## vapman

kurtextrem said:


> So.... should I go with ES100 directly (as upgrade to the Asura 2.0), or should I wait for Ting vs Cygnus?
> 
> By the way, I'm not using any amp... just straight out of my PC/Laptop


 

 Why not wait for ting vs. cygnus comparisons from people who own both anyway? 
  
 IDK which earbuds you have. If you only have the Asura 2.0, definitely try the ES100.
  
 It might sound a bit non-exciting because it has a really honestly flat & un-biased sound, so get a different bud if you like things like treble sparkle. Still waiting for my Rose Mojito but ES100 remains best in terms of detail & refinement I've heard.


----------



## kurtextrem

Well I have VE Monk, VE Asura 2.0, AKG Y16, E100, MrZ Tomahawks
 Took me some time to get away from the AKG sound signature, Monk sounded worse at first, but way better later..The E100 don't fit my ear, Tomahwaks are too airy for me (and slightly too big as well). 
 Currently listening (and gaming) with Asura 2.0


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > My tomahawk just reached my local post office, i will get it today, i will tell you the difference between Tomahawk and Ting later of today
> ...


 
 Ohk done with early impression.
  
 The tomahawk sound is a bit colored, having a boost in low & high freq.
 Other hand Ting is neutral but more refined and also mid centric, that's why i feel it's more musical and the bass is more in tomahawk.
  
 In short, there is slight difference. Thanks to Mojo, because of it's 2 headphone out, i was able to compare easily & quickly on my office desk 
 On physical side, ting is smaller than tomahawk, the earbuds.


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> Ohk done with early impression.
> 
> The tomahawk sound is a bit colored, having a boost in low & high freq.
> Other hand Ting is neutral but more refined and also mid centric, that's why i feel it's more musical and the bass is more in tomahawk.
> ...


 

 Sounds like Ting might be very similar to ES100! Thanks for sharing!
  


kurtextrem said:


> Well I have VE Monk, VE Asura 2.0, AKG Y16, E100, MrZ Tomahawks
> Took me some time to get away from the AKG sound signature, Monk sounded worse at first, but way better later..The E100 don't fit my ear, Tomahwaks are too airy for me (and slightly too big as well).
> Currently listening (and gaming) with Asura 2.0


 

 I had kinda similar feelings about Tomahawk... you might like ES100 or Cygnus, or both. I love E100 with a good amp but they fit me well.


----------



## music4mhell

music4mhell said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > music4mhell said:
> ...


 
 Little more update, i feel Tomahawk a bit bigger to my ears  can't wear for longer duration where as Ting sits nicely.
 And bass in Ting is more refined and tight


----------



## AudioNewbi3

audionewbi3 said:


> So, another day, another bud arrives........from THAILAND!
> My Black Bud Supreme from Good Sound Gadget finally arrive, after placing an order on April the 4th.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Holy crap, switched to doughnut foams, to me the soundstage of these just opened up! 
 I rate the soundstage only belowe the DIY Dual Drivers.


----------



## vapman

Cygnus bass is so good! I love it! Even if Zen 2.0 has better bass, I'll still love to use these often.
  
 Don't even need to fiddle with the fit to get great refined sub bass. Amazing and impressive for an earbud.
  
 I doubted the 15Hz claim on item description heavily but I am happily proven wrong.
  
 Only earbud I know that can out-bass it is MC5 but I don't think it's as refined and clear and Cygnus does it.
  
 G1217 Project Starlight w/ 6N6P -> cygnus (thin full foams)


----------



## haiku

kurtextrem said:


> Well I have VE Monk, VE Asura 2.0, AKG Y16, E100, MrZ Tomahawks
> Took me some time to get away from the AKG sound signature, Monk sounded worse at first, but way better later..The E100 don't fit my ear, Tomahwaks are too airy for me (and slightly too big as well).
> Currently listening (and gaming) with Asura 2.0


 

 ES100 need 200hours burn in minimum according to Fang Bian, Monk a minimum of 300hours acc. to Wild Lee. You can´t really compare them if you don´t give them the time to settle.


----------



## kurtextrem

Yeah, that could be why I didn't like them at first.


----------



## leobigfield

Has anyone heard these? 

DIY Handmade PHEB01 24ohm Hi-Fi DDM Dual Diaphragm Matrix Dynamic Audiophile Earphone Earbuds
http://s.aliexpress.com/mAzYzaaq
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## music4mhell

leobigfield said:


> Has anyone heard these?
> 
> DIY Handmade PHEB01 24ohm Hi-Fi DDM Dual Diaphragm Matrix Dynamic Audiophile Earphone Earbuds
> http://s.aliexpress.com/mAzYzaaq
> (from AliExpress Android)


 
 I have ordered this from Penonaudio.
 I only asked him to list this product, cause it was available only on taobao.


----------



## endia

leobigfield said:


> Has anyone heard these?
> 
> DIY Handmade PHEB01 24ohm Hi-Fi DDM Dual Diaphragm Matrix Dynamic Audiophile Earphone Earbuds
> http://s.aliexpress.com/mAzYzaaq
> (from AliExpress Android)


 
 it is number 2 on ClieOS's "the great" category..


----------



## golov17

leobigfield said:


> Has anyone heard these?
> 
> DIY Handmade PHEB01 24ohm Hi-Fi DDM Dual Diaphragm Matrix Dynamic Audiophile Earphone Earbuds
> http://s.aliexpress.com/mAzYzaaq
> (from AliExpress Android)


This PowerBeats DIY?
湖西 小筑 DIY Dual Driver


----------



## chompy

vapman said:


> I hear a lot of newer guys like you say stuff like this, but always like to remind everyone, one doesn't need experience to be able to have their own opinion. Everyone here has a different opinion and personal taste, so everything anyone says here is totally subjective and opinion and equally valid whether they've been here 15 years or 1 day IMO


 
  
 That's really true... It's nice to see that someone says XXX bud has perfect bass and others say that XXX bud lacks bass, the same with treble, soundstage...
  
 Everybody has his own tastes and although it's very helpfull to read other opinions, at the end of the day your ears will tell what is good or wrong for you


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> leobigfield said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone heard these?
> ...


 
 Yes sir from Taobao


----------



## leobigfield

endia said:


> it is number 2 on ClieOS's "the great" category..







music4mhell said:


> Yes sir from Taobao




Whoa so these are the Taobao dual driver? Would never thought about that since the name in the first post is in chinese LOL


----------



## AudioNewbi3

leobigfield said:


> Has anyone heard these?
> 
> DIY Handmade PHEB01 24ohm Hi-Fi DDM Dual Diaphragm Matrix Dynamic Audiophile Earphone Earbuds
> http://s.aliexpress.com/mAzYzaaq
> (from AliExpress Android)


 
  
  


endia said:


> it is number 2 on ClieOS's "the great" category..


 
  
  


golov17 said:


> This PowerBeats DIY?
> 湖西 小筑 DIY Dual Driver


 
  
  


music4mhell said:


> Yes sir from Taobao


 
  
  


leobigfield said:


> Whoa so these are the Taobao dual driver? Would never thought about that since the name in the first post is in chinese LOL


 
  
 From the looks of it, yes they are the DDM Power Beats Dual Drivers. However, it seems like it only comes with the "standard" cable option. 

 Here is the link for them on Taobao, so maybe you can cross check. But on my initial examinations, looks like they are the same.
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.qWa4eI&id=37119460429&_u=d2i926djaf6b


----------



## Joy Boy

audionewbi3 said:


> From the looks of it, yes they are the DDM Power Beats Dual Drivers. However, it seems like it only comes with the "standard" cable option.
> 
> 
> Here is the link for them on Taobao, so maybe you can cross check. But on my initial examinations, looks like they are the same.
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.qWa4eI&id=37119460429&_u=d2i926djaf6b



I've ever tried it. Some say it's powerbeats gen 2 or 3 (i forgot).
Sound similar like old powerbeats (copper twisted). High is not too extend, smaller soundstage (not to far). Still lack of bass, but very good clarity


----------



## Lionlian

Are not the PK1 are Underrated here? from my region, pk1 with the right amp, they are on par or better than mx985.


----------



## Joy Boy

Just realize that ClieOs has updated the list. More bud like ve asura, tingo Tc-200, ve monk, ucotech, dp100 enter the list. That's great


----------



## vapman

lionlian said:


> Are not the PK1 are Underrated here? from my region, pk1 with the right amp, they are on par or better than mx985.


 

 That's a matter of opinion highly. Personally I don't like the PK1 very much at all.
  
 I went through all the Yuin PK's right when they came out and sold them all. I prefer the monk to all of them strongly, but I know people who think the Yuins are a lot better than the Monk. It's all preference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I haven't heard the MX985 still.


----------



## ClieOS

joy boy said:


> Just realize that ClieOs has updated the list. More bud like ve asura, tingo Tc-200, ve monk, ucotech, dp100 enter the list. That's great


 
  
 Will fully update the list before the end of the month, hopefully.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

joy boy said:


> I've ever tried it. Some say it's powerbeats gen 2 or 3 (i forgot).
> Sound similar like old powerbeats (copper twisted). High is not too extend, smaller soundstage (not to far). Still lack of bass, but very good clarity


 
  
 Ah I see I see. I have only heard one version, so I can't comment on that.


clieos said:


> Will fully update the list before the end of the month, hopefully.


 
 God bless you mate!


----------



## Danneq

lionlian said:


> Are not the PK1 are Underrated here? from my region, pk1 with the right amp, they are on par or better than mx985.








The Yuins have been around an eternity compared to other earbuds. I just received my first pair of PK1, but since I've been sick for 2 weeks and haven't listened much to music, I have not had time to compare them. With my Cayin C5 amp they sounded pretty damn good, though.



Even if I prefer other earbuds to PK2 & 3, I still think that the PK series is pretty good. The only thing is that nowadays you can get better sounding earbuds for much less money. To be competative in 2016, PK3 should cost around $15, PK2 around $30 and PK1 around $80. This considering how old they are and that you can get good sounding earbuds for around those prices.


----------



## vapman

I have to say. The Cygnus is so much like the Asura 2.0 but less constrained. Better bass too. I think the soundstage is about the same but everything sounds less compressed and freer. Will be very interested to pit them against the Zen 2.0.
  
 I wasn't sure how to describe my feeling on the Asura 2.0 sound well, but I think Clieos nailed it with calling it slightly compressed. I can't imagine the 2.0 is too different from Asura beta & 1.
  
  


danneq said:


> I still think that the PK series is pretty good. The only thing is that nowadays you can get better sounding earbuds for much less money.


 
 This is more or less how I feel about the PK, they should have dropped prices drastically ages ago. When they came out the cheapest one was around the price of the Asura 2.0 and there is no competition there IMO. The Asura 2.0 competes against the higher end PK's.


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> I have to say. The Cygnus is so much like the Asura 2.0 but less constrained. Better bass too. I think the soundstage is about the same but everything sounds less compressed and freer. Will be very interested to pit them against the Zen 2.0.


 

 My pair of Cygnus is held hostage by Swedish customs. The second time in a row that I have to pay import taxes when I buy something from Penon audio. I got the people at Penon to write me an e-mail that looks like it's a person and not a company that's sending me the Cygnus as a gift. Hopefully customs will change their decision...

 Don't want to feed the Swedish tax machine more than I'm already doing...


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> My pair of Cygnus is held hostage by Swedish customs. The second time in a row that I have to pay import taxes when I buy something from Penon audio. I got the people at Penon to write me an e-mail that looks like it's a person and not a company that's sending me the Cygnus as a gift. Hopefully customs will change their decision...
> 
> Don't want to feed the Swedish tax machine more than I'm already doing...


 

 Argh! I was about to ask if you ever got yours 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I've seen some come with retail box and some without. Mine came in just the case. Either way they're really good and I think you'll love them.
  
 I also  love the C5 but I want to find a way to modify it to have an ultra low gain mode, because as I'm sure you know, only the first tiny bit of the volume knob is usable, or else you're gonna blow out your earbuds!
  
  
  
 On an unrelated note, anyone here own a Dark Horse ES-E2 or E4? I was getting a new EE order together and was curious about em.


----------



## rggz

chompy said:


> That's really true... It's nice to see that someone says XXX bud has perfect bass and others say that XXX bud lacks bass, the same with treble, soundstage...
> 
> Everybody has his own tastes and although it's very helpfull to read other opinions, at the end of the day your ears will tell what is good or wrong for you


 

 Yes! I couldn't agree more.

 I've been reading the last pages and so many controversial opinions about Zen 2 and Cygnus, I think in headphone world is a hobby very subjective but in earbud world is a bit more difficult because I just can imagine those things will affect the experience: type of foams, ear shape/anatomy, good/poor fit, resonance of individual ear canal, treble sensitive, favorites genres, reference of good sound, quality of amp/source... etc.

 So many options in the equation and make a bit hard trust in an opinion like _"X is better than Y!"_, I think if you like something or it is better than other, you need describe more, tell your tastes.. It's more helpful for beginners and people who are used with X earbud.


----------



## Joy Boy

lionlian said:


> Are not the PK1 are Underrated here? from my region, pk1 with the right amp, they are on par or better than mx985.



Not underrated, PK1 is great when amped. It just too segmented. Lush vocal, but less agressive and weak impact. 
And yeah, i agree with opinion above, there's so many great buds for vocal lover nowadays that cost cheaper (far cheaper) than PK1. While we also want a bud with good impact and PRaT to enjoy most of genre, PK1 couldn't give us that sensation.
It's a great bud, but the price to performance isn't that good


----------



## haiku

joy boy said:


> Not underrated, PK1 is great when amped. It just too segmented. Lush vocal, but less agressive and weak impact.
> And yeah, i agree with opinion above, there's so many great buds for vocal lover nowadays that cost cheaper (far cheaper) than PK1. While we also want a bud with good impact and PRaT to enjoy most of genre, PK1 couldn't give us that sensation.
> It's a great bud, but the price to performance isn't that good


 

 Great post, mate. I wish more people would take as much time for describing the sound of earbuds in detail. Can´t stand reading "the new earbud x is better than ....". Uhu? Better in what way? That just sucks.


----------



## vapman

If someone sold me a PK1 for like $30 or less I would probably take it but I think it has a limited range of things it's good at. so things like high speed techno were completely out of the question, but the right genres sounded great on it. There are so many legitimately great all rounders you can get now for $30.
  
 edit: In other news, the Cygnus has won #1 place over the ES100. Sorry ES100, you're #2 now


----------



## golov17

New VE foams perfectly! 




P.S. another one useless post


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> New VE foams perfectly!
> P.S. another one useless post


 
 Are they fuzzy?
 I can't wait to get mine


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Are they fuzzy?
> I can't wait to get mine


I have a lot of different foams, a few hundred, but, these I have not met even once, very transparent for sound


----------



## yacobx

golov17 said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > Are they fuzzy?
> ...




I do agree, these are the only full foams I've ever used that do not reduce detail.


----------



## Decommo

Has anyone tried Tingo TC200? I saw on Aliexpress and looks good but no idea how it sounds.


----------



## music4mhell

decommo said:


> Has anyone tried Tingo TC200? I saw on Aliexpress and looks good but no idea how it sounds.


i have ordered it, it's on the way


----------



## Decommo

music4mhell said:


> decommo said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone tried Tingo TC200? I saw on Aliexpress and looks good but no idea how it sounds.
> ...




Wow. Great. Love to hear your impression.


----------



## golov17

Category 2: THE GREAT
N°9


----------



## ClieOS

In general I won't recommend Tingo unless you are the adventurous type. They don't really have any consistency when it comes to build quality ... and TC200 definitely doesn't have the MX985 driver like they have claimed.


----------



## foba

Anyone else using these ´earhooks´? I think its the way to go!


----------



## rggz

foba said:


> Anyone else using these ´earhooks´? I think its the way to go!


 

 I'm not using with earhooks, but definitely fitting like CIEM style provide the best fit and SQ _for me_ with Tomahawk's, using it like traditional earbud fit with my hobbit ears the bass sounds a bit muddy.


----------



## Joy Boy

haiku said:


> Great post, mate. I wish more people would take as much time for describing the sound of earbuds in detail. Can´t stand reading "the new earbud x is better than ....". Uhu? Better in what way? That just sucks.



Thanks mate. Just wanna make it clear that every bud is great on it's own way. It's just..not every bud has all factor that could satisfied everyones ear. Choose your best or gambling on it and hope you'll find the one


----------



## supplehope

haiku said:


> Great post, mate. I wish more people would take as much time for describing the sound of earbuds in detail. Can´t stand reading "the new earbud x is better than ....". Uhu? Better in what way? That just sucks.


 

 Yea that's what bugs me, but what can we do?


----------



## rggz

I just received my Cygnus... Very happy, but NOT... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 unfortunately the left side has sounding like a blown driver with an audible distortion below ~150 Hz (checking on this site http://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_subwooferharmonicdistortion.php). I just can't enjoy my music with that issue, I hope Penon can solve it. 

 I have changed the foams, no hair on it, no high volumes, just a bass distortion on left side. Man, sad day...


----------



## Saoshyant

Contact Penon and they can help, had to do the same with an ES100. Unfortunately for me it meant more time and money to remedy the issue.


----------



## Decommo

clieos said:


> In general I won't recommend Tingo unless you are the adventurous type. They don't really have any consistency when it comes to build quality ... and TC200 definitely doesn't have the MX985 driver like they have claimed.


 
  
 Thank you. I missed page 1 the list and it was there.


----------



## Decommo

Does anyone can recommend earbud that has big spacious soundstage with very high clarity? I do not like bass heavy earbud but look for high clarity earbud. One of my favorite IEM is Ety ER4 and look for an earbud that has similar sound signature if there is any.


----------



## leobigfield

Rose Mojito?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

decommo said:


> Does anyone can recommend earbud that has big spacious soundstage with very high clarity? I do not like bass heavy earbud but look for high clarity earbud. One of my favorite IEM is Ety ER4 and look for an earbud that has similar sound signature if there is any.




Green Ting?: http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32647342362.html

--


----------



## ClieOS

leobigfield said:


> Rose Mojito?


 
  
 That ^^^


----------



## AudioNewbi3

decommo said:


> Does anyone can recommend earbud that has big spacious soundstage with very high clarity? I do not like bass heavy earbud but look for high clarity earbud. One of my favorite IEM is Ety ER4 and look for an earbud that has similar sound signature if there is any.




Powerbeats DIY DUAL DRIVER


----------



## music4mhell

decommo said:


> Does anyone can recommend earbud that has big spacious soundstage with very high clarity? I do not like bass heavy earbud but look for high clarity earbud. One of my favorite IEM is Ety ER4 and look for an earbud that has similar sound signature if there is any.


 
 Musicmaker Ting.


----------



## tayo15

I'm glad I found you guys over here, due to a medical condition I was born with a defect in one of my ears and so iems don't fit inside my right ear, ear buds were always my go to, until iems took over. Anyone able to recommend a really good ear bud with nice soundstage, balanced sound is preferred or warm and slightly bassy. I tend to lean balanced or warm. I was trying to buy the tm7 but it no longer is sold. Also how is isolation on earbuds?

I listen to all styles, my current headphones are Mad Dogs (t50rp) and NAD viso hp50. I listen to all styles but I do tend to sometimes enjoy metal, edm, hip hop and pop. So I prefer neutral or warm neutral or warm bassy if that makes any sense. I also have a love for female vocals or vocals in general.


----------



## Decommo

bloodypenguin said:


> decommo said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone can recommend earbud that has big spacious soundstage with very high clarity? I do not like bass heavy earbud but look for high clarity earbud. One of my favorite IEM is Ety ER4 and look for an earbud that has similar sound signature if there is any.
> ...


 
  
 Thank you so much for the suggestion. I checked and looks very promising. Have you tried it? If so, how does it sound? Thank you.


----------



## Decommo

audionewbi3 said:


> decommo said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone can recommend earbud that has big spacious soundstage with very high clarity? I do not like bass heavy earbud but look for high clarity earbud. One of my favorite IEM is Ety ER4 and look for an earbud that has similar sound signature if there is any.
> ...


 
  
 Thank you. Where can I purchase this? Do you have any link to go to website to purchase? Thank you again.


----------



## supplehope

tayo15 said:


> I'm glad I found you guys over here, due to a medical condition I was born with a defect in one of my ears and so iems don't fit inside my right ear, ear buds were always my go to, until iems took over. Anyone able to recommend a really good ear bud with nice soundstage, balanced sound is preferred or warm and slightly bassy. I tend to lean balanced or warm. I was trying to buy the tm7 but it no longer is sold. Also how is isolation on earbuds?
> 
> I listen to all styles, my current headphones are Mad Dogs (t50rp) and NAD viso hp50. I listen to all styles but I do tend to sometimes enjoy metal, edm, hip hop and pop. So I prefer neutral or warm neutral or warm bassy if that makes any sense. I also have a love for female vocals or vocals in general.




Welcome to the Earbuds thread and hope you are okay. 

Well, I am not trying to do shameless promoting here, but the Ostry KC08 may be good for a pair of balanced sounding earbuds, although soundstage is more on the normal area. Based on what I have read so far, some other ones that you can consider are the MrZ Musicmaker Tomahawk, Ting and the Shozy Cygnus. Take note though that earbuds are never the best for sub bass, in my experience with my own KC08.


----------



## Decommo

music4mhell said:


> decommo said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone can recommend earbud that has big spacious soundstage with very high clarity? I do not like bass heavy earbud but look for high clarity earbud. One of my favorite IEM is Ety ER4 and look for an earbud that has similar sound signature if there is any.
> ...


 
  
 Thank you for the suggestion. It is definitely one of earbuds that I am keen to check it out.


----------



## music4mhell

decommo said:


> bloodypenguin said:
> 
> 
> > decommo said:
> ...


 
 It's on my way  You have to wait some more days to get the impressions on Tingo 200 & green ting


----------



## music4mhell

supplehope said:


> tayo15 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm glad I found you guys over here, due to a medical condition I was born with a defect in one of my ears and so iems don't fit inside my right ear, ear buds were always my go to, until iems took over. Anyone able to recommend a really good ear bud with nice soundstage, balanced sound is preferred or warm and slightly bassy. I tend to lean balanced or warm. I was trying to buy the tm7 but it no longer is sold. Also how is isolation on earbuds?
> ...


 
 No no no not at all, please please don't buy Ostry KC08.
 Everything is best in KC08, but mids, yuck, i used the KC08 only 2/3 times.
 You will enjoy the EDM/trance music genre on KC08.


----------



## Decommo

leobigfield said:


> Rose Mojito?


 
 Thank you for the suggestion. Is it over $200? If so, it is out of my budget. My budget is under $100.


----------



## Decommo

music4mhell said:


> decommo said:
> 
> 
> > bloodypenguin said:
> ...


 
 Wow, you have a lot coming your way.   I will be patiently waiting for your impression on them. Thanks.


----------



## supplehope

music4mhell said:


> No no no not at all, please please don't buy Ostry KC08.
> Everything is best in KC08, but mids, yuck, i used the KC08 only 2/3 times.
> You will enjoy the EDM/trance music genre on KC08.




Well actually, the mids are opening up nicely as I listen to them much more, but in the end, it's up to your hearing. Pardons.


----------



## music4mhell

supplehope said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > No no no not at all, please please don't buy Ostry KC08.
> ...


 
 I am sorry, but if you hear side by side from any other earbud, then you realize that KC08 lacks the Mids


----------



## supplehope

music4mhell said:


> I am sorry, but if you hear side by side from any other earbud, then you realize that KC08 lacks the Mids




Fair enough. I am indeed lacking in experience when it comes to many different earbuds. You are not wrong, I do need to listen to more earbuds soon and I am definielty not stopping at KC08 as I am not really satisfied with the sub bass, width and even the mids at all. Thanks for the enlightment.


----------



## music4mhell

supplehope said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I am sorry, but if you hear side by side from any other earbud, then you realize that KC08 lacks the Mids
> ...


 
 Order 1 Monk+ @ $5  whole world will open in front of you


----------



## leobigfield

music4mhell said:


> Order 1 Monk+ @ $5  whole world will open in front of you




Now that's true!


----------



## golov17

Asura2.0 What!! GO-go-go! This buds perfectly for price!


----------



## yacobx

golov17 said:


> Asura2.0 What!! GO-go-go! This buds perfectly for price!


 
 what?


----------



## golov17

yacobx said:


> what?


this 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up-update-april-25th-2015/3915#post_12506797
Just buy Asura2.0 and get the expansion pack and the old Monk for free!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

BTW, earlier today I got the MusicMaker Tomahawk IEM version.
  
 It is basically a Tomahawk + Comply Earbud Enhancer.
  
 The IEM tip is ALL metal, like the rest of the housing.  The chord is flat, unlike the normal round version on the original.
  
 I have no burn in at all, but first listen proves that with a good seal, these will produce even deeper and more abundant bass.

 Again, mine is the Balanced version.  I think I would want to try the "Hi-Fi" version next.
  
  
 Here are a few quick pictures I just took:
  

  

  
  
 --


----------



## stilleh

I have been burning in the Shozy Cygnus for about 50 hours now and, like some people here declared, they have opened up alot. They are nowhere near as congested and muddy as I felt they were out of the box. Bass is extremely pleasant and, lacking a better word, focused. What I mean by that is that the bass doesn´t take over or spoil the rest of the sound. It comes out when needed to and it comes out with fierce force.
  
 Personally I feel that the Zen 2.0 black edition still has the edge over the Cygnus in sound. Cable, and shells are just perfect on the Cygnus and I like them much more than on the Zen. Another excellent buy nonetheless


----------



## golov17

stilleh said:


> I have been burning in the Shozy Cygnus for about 50 hours now and, like some people here declared, they have opened up alot. They are nowhere near as congested and muddy as I felt they were out of the box. Bass is extremely pleasant and, lacking a better word, focused. What I mean by that is that the bass doesn´t take over or spoil the rest of the sound. It comes out when needed to and it comes out with fierce force.
> 
> Personally I feel that the Zen 2.0 black edition still has the edge over the Cygnus in sound. Cable, and shells are just perfect on the Cygnus and I like them much more than on the Zen. Another excellent buy nonetheless


Hmm.. I will burn it


----------



## music4mhell

stilleh said:


> I have been burning in the Shozy Cygnus for about 50 hours now and, like some people here declared, they have opened up alot. They are nowhere near as congested and muddy as I felt they were out of the box. Bass is extremely pleasant and, lacking a better word, focused. What I mean by that is that the bass doesn´t take over or spoil the rest of the sound. It comes out when needed to and it comes out with fierce force.
> 
> Personally I feel that the Zen 2.0 black edition still has the edge over the Cygnus in sound. Cable, and shells are just perfect on the Cygnus and I like them much more than on the Zen. Another excellent buy nonetheless


 
 Ohk then, let me put my cygnus on fire


----------



## supplehope

music4mhell said:


> Order 1 Monk+ @ $5  whole world will open in front of you




Definitely I will be getting one of those Monks+. As long as things settles eventually, there is no way I am getting more than I can afford now unfortunately. I do have plans for more earbuds like the two MrZs, Cygnus and the Asura 2 (Zen 2 was too dark for my flavor when I tried them and ClieOS personally adviced that the Asura are actually the better buy somehow) to come in (not really into in-ears anymore after the contact with KC08).

Maybe I am seem to be more serious and unpopular when it comes to opinions, but I am willing to try out anything as long as I am able to. When I started this hobby, I had a lot of fun collecting and listening to different in-ears, until I realised that the game was all over for me.

I love music more than audio, but that doesn't mean that I am not concerned about the gears that I have used all along. It's great to have new stuff coming in, as much as I am more serious than just a typical head-fier.

Back to lurking I go. Have to focus.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

decommo said:


> Thank you. Where can I purchase this? Do you have any link to go to website to purchase? Thank you again.


 

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-Handmade-PB-24ohm-Hi-Fi-DDM-Dual-Diaphragm-Matrix-Dynamic-Audiophile-Earphone-Earbuds/32651127312.html?shortkey=mAzYzaaq&addresstype=600
  
 Here you go mate! Enjoy!


----------



## golov17

Wow! Rare item 

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207742803240497&id=1605876721&set=gm.554930421355192&source=48&ref=m_notif&notif_t=group_activity


----------



## goldenSHK

audionewbi3 said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-Handmade-PB-24ohm-Hi-Fi-DDM-Dual-Diaphragm-Matrix-Dynamic-Audiophile-Earphone-Earbuds/32651127312.html?shortkey=mAzYzaaq&addresstype=600
> 
> Here you go mate! Enjoy!


 
 Is this the exact same earbud clieOS mentions in the rankings as:
  


> 湖西小筑 DIY Dual Driver - OEM Dual Dynamic Matrix driver from PowerBeats, some of the best soundstage and micro-detail, but very neutral and doesn't have much bass reach or depth.


 
 Is it the same seller from Toaboa or confirmed same model?


----------



## music4mhell

goldenshk said:


> audionewbi3 said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-Handmade-PB-24ohm-Hi-Fi-DDM-Dual-Diaphragm-Matrix-Dynamic-Audiophile-Earphone-Earbuds/32651127312.html?shortkey=mAzYzaaq&addresstype=600
> ...


 
 Yes it's the same


----------



## Danneq

tayo15 said:


> I'm glad I found you guys over here, due to a medical condition I was born with a defect in one of my ears and so iems don't fit inside my right ear, ear buds were always my go to, until iems took over. Anyone able to recommend a really good ear bud with nice soundstage, balanced sound is preferred or warm and slightly bassy. I tend to lean balanced or warm. I was trying to buy the tm7 but it no longer is sold. Also how is isolation on earbuds?
> 
> I listen to all styles, my current headphones are Mad Dogs (t50rp) and NAD viso hp50. I listen to all styles but I do tend to sometimes enjoy metal, edm, hip hop and pop. So I prefer neutral or warm neutral or warm bassy if that makes any sense. I also have a love for female vocals or vocals in general.




I second the Shozy Cygnus recommendation. Also, Yuin PK1 has got a warm sound but since it's got 150ohm impedance you need a headphone amp to drive it properly. Plus, the Yuin PK series is a bit old. That isn't a problem in itself, but prices are a bit high compared to newer earbuds. Currently you can find PK1 for around $130-140. Personally I think that the price should be lowered to around $80-90 condidering current competition.

A current favorite of mine is Musicmaker Tomahawk. It is quite forward and still detailed. Bass is good but not overpowering. However, I wouldn't call Tomahawk "warm".

Also, about Blox, they will release a new earbud later in the spring. It's more of a mid level earbud. Blox is working on the driver for a new flagship earbud but they are small company with small resources so work is progressing slowly.


----------



## goldenSHK

music4mhell said:


> Yes it's the same


 
 Thanks! Time to buy... >_>


----------



## rggz

saoshyant said:


> Contact Penon and they can help, had to do the same with an ES100. Unfortunately for me it meant more time and money to remedy the issue.


 

 They reply very quickly and will send me another pair! The only problem it is the long time for waiting after arrives to my country, and possibly customs duty.

 --
  
 Btw, my little family is growing up! I give my VE Monk to my friend and I hope my new Monk+ arrives to me as quickly as possible.


(potato pic)

 The German duo Meier + MX985 are my favorites with electric guitar records, E100 and Tomahawk's are my all-arounders and daily earbuds, sounds so good even with my iPhone output and Cygnus I can't hear anything with much bass because mine pair arrives unfortunately with a blown driver on left side, I hope enjoy them when my replacement pair come out!


----------



## music4mhell

rggz said:


> saoshyant said:
> 
> 
> > Contact Penon and they can help, had to do the same with an ES100. Unfortunately for me it meant more time and money to remedy the issue.
> ...


 
 Hey it seems you have Genelecs, which do you own ?
 I have 8010 pair & F-One Sub & i use Chord Mojo as a pre-Amp


----------



## rggz

music4mhell said:


> Hey it seems you have Genelecs, which do you own ?
> I have 8010 pair & F-One Sub & i use Chord Mojo as a pre-Amp


 

 Cool I have the same setup too! But my pre-amp it's a DIY Nelson Pass B1 and my dac a simple but good Schiit Modi 2. I just read good things about Mojo, damn nice setup!


----------



## music4mhell

rggz said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Hey it seems you have Genelecs, which do you own ?
> ...


 
 Thank You, i use Mojo @ my office desk with earbuds @ home it's genelecs


----------



## Joy Boy

golov17 said:


> Wow! Rare item
> 
> https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207742803240497&id=1605876721&set=gm.554930421355192&source=48&ref=m_notif&notif_t=group_activity



May be it's the last stock out there? Grab it fast! Soon it will be legendary like TM7


----------



## tayo15

danneq said:


> I second the Shozy Cygnus recommendation.
> 
> A current favorite of mine is Musicmaker Tomahawk. It is quite forward and still detailed. Bass is good but not overpowering. However, I wouldn't call Tomahawk "warm".
> 
> Also, about Blox, they will release a new earbud later in the spring. It's more of a mid level earbud. Blox is working on the driver for a new flagship earbud but they are small company with small resources so work is progressing slowly.




Now my interest has piqued and now I am turned: What are some differences between MrZ (musicmaker) Tomahawk and Ting?? Also is shozy cygnus better than both of these?? One last thing to add is, is there a way to create better isolation with earbuds?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Just pre-ordered the Elibuds Sabia.

Check out the invoice number: *007*. 




--


----------



## Joy Boy

bloodypenguin said:


> Just pre-ordered the Elibuds Sabia.
> 
> Check out the invoice number: *007*.
> 
> ...



Wow..nice! 
Mine will be sent around 20th of april. I'll share mine later


----------



## music4mhell

link plz


----------



## BloodyPenguin

music4mhell said:


> link plz


 
 For the *Elibuds Sabia*?
  
 There was a pre-order link on their Facebook page, but not sure where it is now.  Or if the links still work.
  
  
 You can try here:  https://www.facebook.com/EliAudioIndonesia/timeline
  
 ..


----------



## jpcastro

Hello,
  
 First of all, i would like to say that i can't get used to these new "in ear" earphones and it seems the market is flooded with them.
 I can't find a pair of decent "non in ear" buds with a microphone and android controls and, as i'm a basshead, lot's of bass power 
  
 do you guys know anything that can meet these specs?
  
 Regards


----------



## music4mhell

jpcastro said:


> Hello,
> 
> First of all, i would like to say that i can't get used to these new "in ear" earphones and it seems the market is flooded with them.
> I can't find a pair of decent "non in ear" buds with a microphone and android controls and, as i'm a basshead, lot's of bass power
> ...


AWEI ES11


----------



## jpcastro

thanks 
  
 do they really have powerfull bass? like yuin pk3?


----------



## Danneq

tayo15 said:


> Now my interest has piqued and now I am turned: What are some differences between MrZ (musicmaker) Tomahawk and Ting?? Also is shozy cygnus better than both of these?? One last thing to add is, is there a way to create better isolation with earbuds?




I've been sick for a while so I haven't compared Tomahawk to Ting. I've had Tomahawk for a few months and recently receicved a pair of Ting. My overall impression is that Tomahawk is more up front and in your face while Ting is more distanced sounding. More in a reference headphone way.

Today I finally could get my pair of Cygnus (and I didn't need to pay import taxes). Haven't listened to them much but they sound good. Still I prefer Tomahawk to Ting & Cygnus but that might change when I have listened more to them (plus burn in both of earbuds & my brain to the sound...).


----------



## BloodyPenguin

danneq said:


> My overall impression is that Tomahawk is more up front and in your face while Ting is more distanced sounding. More in a reference headphone way.


 
  
 I agree 100% with that description.

 --


----------



## springbay

danneq said:


> I've been sick for a while so I haven't compared Tomahawk to Ting. I've had Tomahawk for a few months and recently receicved a pair of Ting. My overall impression is that Tomahawk is more up front and in your face while Ting is more distanced sounding. More in a reference headphone way.
> 
> Today I finally could get my pair of Cygnus (and I didn't need to pay import taxes). Haven't listened to them much but they sound good. Still I prefer Tomahawk to Ting & Cygnus but that might change when I have listened more to them (plus burn in both of earbuds & my brain to the sound...).


 
  
 Good to hear about the import taxes being avoided. What was the problem, did Penon mark the package as a free gift, or why did Post Nord hold it? I'm always weary when first ordering from a seller outside of the EU before knowing what value they will declare on the package. I've sent a whole lot of money to Post Nords kaffekassa during the years. 
  
 Also about the MusicMaker buds. I received my Tomahawk and Ting earlier this week. They have tremendous highs and mids to my ears. Child in Time - Live in Japan, is just heavenly, and the sound stage on K-electronica like Neon Bunny is just amazing on the Tings. But I'm lacking the bass on both of the buds when listening to K-hiphop like Keith Ape and other genres with prominent bass.
  
 I was thinking this has to do with me not getting a proper seal. The buds are just too small for my ears. The 32 ohm Monks with dognut foams fit perfect in my ears and provide that decent bass, but the MusicMaker buds feels like the don't grip. It's not like they are falling out, but I can't feel them connecting all around in my ears like the Monks do.
  
 This evening I tried putting on an additional pair of donut foams on the Tings (double donuts). This made them fit a bit better, but still it feels like I don't get the same kind of grip/seal as with the Monks. And I've not found the bass yet.
  
 So my question, should I not expect the same level of bass from the MusicMaker buds as from the Monks, or do you have a suggestion on how I can achieve a proper seal on the MusicMaker buds and experience the good bass people are suggesting the buds can provide? Could rubber rings with foams outside help and in that case what dimension should the rubber rings be?


----------



## vapman

Cygnus sound pretty good at first but I have about 3 straight days of burning it in and they seem to sound better each time


----------



## Danneq

springbay said:


> Good to hear about the import taxes being avoided. What was the problem, did Penon mark the package as a free gift, or why did Post Nord hold it? I'm always weary when first ordering from a seller outside of the EU before knowing what value they will declare on the package. I've sent a whole lot of money to Post Nords kaffekassa during the years.
> 
> Also about the MusicMaker buds. I received my Tomahawk and Ting earlier this week. They have tremendous highs and mids to my ears. Child in Time - Live in Japan, is just heavenly, and the sound stage on K-electronica like Neon Bunny is just amazing on the Tings. But I'm lacking the bass on both of the buds when listening to K-hiphop like Keith Ape and other genres with prominent bass.
> 
> ...




I don't really know why the package got import fees placed on it in the first place. Penon said it was marked as gift. I asked Penon to write me an e-mail saying that the gift we agreed upon was sent and that e-mail was enough for the import fees to be removed. The last time I ordered from Penon, when I bought a pair of Celsus Gramo One, it was sent through DHL and also it was marked as "sample". The value was " only" marked as $49 but that together with it being marked as "sample" led to me being forced to pay around 200 SEK in import fees...

I never had a problem with Easy earphone. They always mark the value as $5 or $10 and also mark it as "gift".

About bass on Ting and Tomahawk, I think that Ting seems to have high quality bass, but in a more neutral sense. To me Tomahawk has got more bass than Monk. I actually find Monk to be a bit bass shy and somewhat sharp in the highs. Tomahawk reminds me of Monk but with better balance between lows, mids & highs (although highs are slightly sharp if I do not use full foams). Also Monk has got an overall warmer sound to me while Tomahawk is slightly " colder". This sense of warmth might have something to do with the mids...

You could always put a rubber ring around Ting & Tomahawk and then foams. That might be the best suggestion...


----------



## vapman

jpcastro said:


> thanks
> 
> do they really have powerfull bass? like yuin pk3?


 

 Which earbuds are you familiar with? Didn't expect you would know yuin pk3 cause you mentioned none in your first post :O


----------



## springbay

danneq said:


> I don't really know why the package got import fees placed on it in the first place. Penon said it was marked as gift. I asked Penon to write me an e-mail saying that the gift we agreed upon was sent and that e-mail was enough for the import fees to be removed. The last time I ordered from Penon, when I bought a pair of Celsus Gramo One, it was sent through DHL and also it was marked as "sample". The value was " only" marked as $49 but that together with it being marked as "sample" led to me being forced to pay around 200 SEK in import fees...
> 
> I never had a problem with Easy earphone. They always mark the value as $5 or $10 and also mark it as "gift".
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ok 200 SEK import extras sound rather decent for a $250 bud. That is what I've paid for several $50 orders from Massdrop. I'll just continue to order from Easy, both the Tings and Tomahawks where marked as $10 and passed through Post Nord without hickups.
  
 I'll try and see if Igor can guide me where to find rubber rings in the right dimension for the MusicMakers and give it another try.
  
 I've been playing around with Alexandre Desplat - Canto at Gabelmeister's Peak on the Monks/Tomahawks/Tings
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bXTtWntlf0
 I would had hoped that the Tings could handle the bass from around 00:16 to 00:30 a bit better than the Monks given the retail price. But no, neither the Monks not the Tomahawks or the Tings can do anything near what I get with IEM's or headphones.
  
 On the other hand, my Monks will do decent justice to Yezi - Cider
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YJFr4pwwl0
 while the MusicMaker buds just feels terribly bass shy


----------



## B9Scrambler

Review of the FiiO EM3. What a nice little earbud!
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/fiio-em3-open-earbud-earphones-with-in-line-microphone-black/reviews/15771


----------



## tayo15

danneq said:


> I've been sick for a while so I haven't compared Tomahawk to Ting. I've had Tomahawk for a few months and recently receicved a pair of Ting. My overall impression is that Tomahawk is more up front and in your face while Ting is more distanced sounding. More in a reference headphone way.




when you say distant sounding do you mean wide or deep soundstage, and instrument separation?? Imaging?? I actually love soundstage and I might just end up buying both xD


----------



## kurtextrem

tayo15 said:


> when you say distant sounding do you mean wide or deep soundstage, and instrument separation?? Imaging?? I actually love soundstage and I might just end up buying both xD


 
 well for me the Tomahawks sound airy, the sound is not in your ear but somewhere... else. For the Asura and Monk the voice/sound is in your ear, directly next to you


----------



## Danneq

tayo15 said:


> when you say distant sounding do you mean wide or deep soundstage, and instrument separation?? Imaging?? I actually love soundstage and I might just end up buying both xD




I haven't compared Ting to Tomahawk too closely. Like Kurtextrem writes, Tomahawk does have an airy quality to it and both soundstage and instrument separation is top notch. But compared to Ting, Tomahawk does sound more up front. Or rather, Ting is more "laid back" than Tomahawk. Have to compare them more closely, though...



kurtextrem said:


> well for me the Tomahawks sound airy, the sound is not in your ear but somewhere... else. For the Asura and Monk the voice/sound is in your ear, directly next to you




Agree with you that Monk is more up front than Tomahawk. But Ting goes much further than Tomahawk in that sense...


----------



## goldenSHK

danneq said:


> I haven't compared Ting to Tomahawk too closely. Like Kurtextrem writes, Tomahawk does have an airy quality to it and both soundstage and instrument separation is top notch. But compared to Ting, Tomahawk does sound more up front. Or rather, Ting is more "laid back" than Tomahawk. Have to compare them more closely, though...
> Agree with you that Monk is more up front than Tomahawk. But Ting goes much further than Tomahawk in that sense...


 
 Where does Shozy compare in this? I am interested to know how top tier the Cygnus is, or isn't.


----------



## Danneq

goldenshk said:


> Where does Shozy compare in this? I am interested to know how top tier the Cygnus is, or isn't.




Well, I haven't compared Cygnus directly to my Blox TM7, Sennheiser MX980 or VE Zen1. From a very brief impression I'd say that it's slightly below these three. But it's quite close to them. And considering those other three are discontinued, Cygnus is definitely in the top tier of earbuds that are currently sold.


----------



## goldenSHK

danneq said:


> Well, I haven't compared Cygnus directly to my Blox TM7, Sennheiser MX980 or VE Zen1. From a very brief impression I'd say that it's slightly below these three. But it's quite close to them. And considering those other three are discontinued, Cygnus is definitely in the top tier of earbuds that are currently sold.


 
 That's great to hear especially because I have one coming on the way. I should have a decent collection now with that added to it, I can probably do a mini top list like ClieOS soon hopefully.


----------



## music4mhell

goldenshk said:


> danneq said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I haven't compared Cygnus directly to my Blox TM7, Sennheiser MX980 or VE Zen1. From a very brief impression I'd say that it's slightly below these three. But it's quite close to them. And considering those other three are discontinued, Cygnus is definitely in the top tier of earbuds that are currently sold.
> ...


i am in the same league.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Does anyone here has any experience with Pioneer SE CE 511 or SE CE 521?


----------



## golov17

521 better


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> 521 better




Can you reupload the image, I cant seem to get it to load.

Btw, have you owned the 521 before? 
How do they sound?
Are they worth the price?


----------



## golov17

Category 2: THE GREAT
N°26 on the first page in this thread  
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t35.0-12/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12999582_10209608591556723_2003920407_o.png.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=9c1c0fb2700b0376552ccbbca2a158fe&oe=57143459


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> Category 2: THE GREAT
> N°26 on the first page in this thread
> https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t35.0-12/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12999582_10209608591556723_2003920407_o.png.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=9c1c0fb2700b0376552ccbbca2a158fe&oe=57143459


 
 Ah! Thanks for pointing that out! I guess I can save some $$$ by buying the Jiusiaos hahaha.
 What about the Pioneer SE-CS22 or CS 12?


----------



## golov17

Don't know


----------



## zecha

hi
can i get comparison between ostry kc08 and yuin pk1?
i miss the widest soundstage from pk1 but i lost the detail


----------



## chompy

Thanks ClieOS for updating again today your list!!
  
 My current favourite earbud is Edifier H185 (with bass boosted) if I would like to improve it (mainly to bet better bass while keeping their highs), what would you recommend, Ostry KC08 or Music Maker Tomahawk (or anything else)? Soundstage is not quite important for me and I like V shaped sound to hear mostly uplifting trance and quick techno music.


----------



## supplehope

Looks like there are obviously some more unknown earbuds than only "Ohh, VE Monk!!!" (joking) that need to be in my bucket list. Really appreciate the update of the list. Agree with the description of the KC08 as well, as much as they are somehow got quite the cold shoulders, in my opinion.

[rule]
Quote:


> My current favourite earbud is Edifier H185 (with bass boosted) if I would like to improve it (mainly to bet better bass while keeping their highs), what would you recommend, Ostry KC08 or Music Maker Tomahawk (or anything else)? Soundstage is not quite important for me and I like V shaped sound to hear mostly uplifting trance and quick techno music




I may not be helping at all, but after hearing the KC08 for like more than 200 hours or so, I can confirm that they are pretty much an all-rounder with good highs, tight bass (sub-bass could have been better, but personally I really dig the kicks with bass drums) but obviously still dry mids (again, but I find them to be slightly more forward now). I actually appreciate these more with my own pretty varied music library as they at least don't sound fatigue but at the same time, surprisingly not something that I am bored at all (my taste is boring, so maybe I am really one of those weird ones).

I know that someone mentioned that these are good for the type of music you described above, but I personally think that you may want to check out some other earbuds like the Tomahawks or the Asura 2 since you want something that are mostly focus on electronics music. The KC08 are just not for V-shaped heads at all, in my opinion.

Really liked to help more, but haven't heard any other earbuds (yet), so that's all for now.


----------



## vapman

chompy said:


> Thanks ClieOS for updating again today your list!!
> 
> My current favourite earbud is Edifier H185 (with bass boosted) if I would like to improve it (mainly to bet better bass while keeping their highs), what would you recommend, Ostry KC08 or Music Maker Tomahawk (or anything else)? Soundstage is not quite important for me and I like V shaped sound to hear mostly uplifting trance and quick techno music.


 

 Is H185 one of the Edifier it's recommended to upgrade the cable on?
  
 I bought a set of H180 and H185 from Aliexpress a couple days ago to mod based on @Joy Boy impressions.
  
 If soundstage is not important and you do not have an amp a Tomahawk is a really good choice. Maybe consider DK Jin although I haven't heard that, I just know it has a V shaped sound, I hope to hear it soon. Asura 2.0 also good but you might feel it requires too much EQ
  
 Unlike @supplehope i have heard all but the KC08 mentioned


----------



## music4mhell

Thanks for updating the list, but i still feel monk can be in the great category.


----------



## ClieOS

chompy said:


> Thanks ClieOS for updating again today your list!!
> 
> My current favourite earbud is Edifier H185 (with bass boosted) if I would like to improve it (mainly to bet better bass while keeping their highs), what would you recommend, Ostry KC08 or Music Maker Tomahawk (or anything else)? Soundstage is not quite important for me and I like V shaped sound to hear mostly uplifting trance and quick techno music.


 
  
 Tomahawk will be my recommendation as it kind of has the same fun factor as H185 if that is more important. KC08 on the other hand does has more of a V-shaped sound and should go quite well with techno. Can't really see wrong in either choice.
  
 The list is currently fully updated. Probably gotten take some new pictures soon as well.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Tomahawk will be my recommendation as it kind of has the same fun factor as H185 if that is more important. KC08 on the other hand does has more of a V-shaped sound and should go quite well with techno. Can't really see wrong in either choice.
> 
> The list is currently fully updated. Probably gotten take some new pictures soon as well.


 
 Thank-you for the effort which for which you have dedicated towards this thread!

 THANK-YOU!


----------



## chompy

Lots of thanks @supplehope @vapman @ClieOS for your opinions and help... I've looked on Aliexpress and KC08 is three times more expensive than Tomahawk, I'll have to think about it.
  
 And one important think I forgot to ask: buds size, I have small ears and while Edifier are ok (but still not as confy as Yuin buds), VE buds don't suit my ears... If I'm not wrong, I read before that KC08 are on the big side, while Tomahawk are smaller, how much different in size are they?
  
 Sorry @vapman but I haven't modded my H185 (I wouldn't even know you open them without breaking something)
  
 EDIT: I've seen on Easy Earphones that they sell 2015 and 2016 MrZ Tomahawk versions for almost the same price... Do you know if there's any difference between them?


----------



## TDanz

Anyone ever try this one?
 DIY MX500
 How bout the sound compare to Tomahawk?
 From Easy Earphone Aliexpress


----------



## vapman

tdanz said:


> Anyone ever try this one?
> DIY MX500
> How bout the sound compare to Tomahawk?
> From Easy Earphone Aliexpress


 

 Never tried it but it looks like a Dasetn MC5 with a nicer cable


----------



## Zani004

music4mhell said:


> Thanks for updating the list, but i still feel monk can be in the great category.


 

 I think the Monk is where it belongs, but the Rose Mojito being placed in with the champions is a little contentious. I feel it's too narrowly focused to compare it overall against those other three. Still, not my call.


----------



## ngoshawk

chompy said:


> Thanks ClieOS for updating again today your list!!
> 
> My current favourite earbud is Edifier H185 (with bass boosted) if I would like to improve it (mainly to bet better bass while keeping their highs), what would you recommend, Ostry KC08 or Music Maker Tomahawk (or anything else)? Soundstage is not quite important for me and I like V shaped sound to hear mostly uplifting trance and quick techno music.




If I may, the $10 Fiio EM3 earbud works for smaller ears, such as I have. This is a really fine bud with very good soundstage, mids not too forward, good bass and decent treble. They are easy to drive, too...no amp needed. I am finishing my review of them against the Monk, etc and have to say it is really close between the two. The Fiio's fit my ear better, too. Really nice bud, especially for $10.


----------



## vapman

zani004 said:


> I think the Monk is where it belongs, but the Rose Mojito being placed in with the champions is a little contentious. I feel it's too narrowly focused to compare it overall against those other three. Still, not my call.


 

 Have you heard it? There isn't really anything except ClieOS' short-ish review on them. I've been waiting on mine in the mail for a super long time, and the only other person I know of who's ordered them hasn't received theirs yet either. I hope it's a champion for what I paid for it!


----------



## Zani004

vapman said:


> Have you heard it? There isn't really anything except ClieOS' short-ish review on them. I've been waiting on mine in the mail for a super long time, and the only other person I know of who's ordered them hasn't received theirs yet either. *I hope it's a champion for what I paid for it!*


 
 lol, I hope it is too. I don't own one, I was going off ClieOS' comment,"Mojito, while excellent on many levels, only truly excels in music that required a big soundstage and doesn't need any emphasis on the mid range."
 Sort of lost interest after that. BloodyPenguin had a pair, but haven't seen his review up yet.


----------



## mc0ne

clieos said:


> ..
> The list is currently fully updated. Probably gotten take some new pictures soon as well.


 
  
 Thanks ClieOS for the update! 
  
 Obviously the ranking is also a matter of taste, but it gives a good hint especially in regards to the category.
  
 Happy listening


----------



## Joy Boy

But why the champions is alway the ultra-rare? TM7 is already lost in any audio-shop. Zen 1 & Mx985 is discontinued, even if there's still limited stock in the market, the price raised terrifically.
And rose mojito, a very limited product that will discontinued soon and very expensive.
Damn! Gladly already have 1 of it -_-


----------



## supplehope

chompy said:


> And one important think I forgot to ask: buds size, I have small ears and while Edifier are ok (but still not as confy as Yuin buds), VE buds don't suit my ears... If I'm not wrong, I read before that KC08 are on the big side, while Tomahawk are smaller, how much different in size are they?




The KC08 use 16mm drivers, so they are quite big, actually, and that's another good reason to avoid them if you want the best fit.


----------



## TDanz

vapman said:


> Never tried it but it looks like a Dasetn MC5 with a nicer cable




Yup.. perhaps recabling with Crsytal Cable


----------



## ClieOS

zani004 said:


> I think the Monk is where it belongs, but the Rose Mojito being placed in with the champions is a little contentious. I feel it's too narrowly focused to compare it overall against those other three. Still, not my call.


 
  
  


zani004 said:


> lol, I hope it is too. I don't own one, I was going off ClieOS' comment,"Mojito, while excellent on many levels, only truly excels in music that required a big soundstage and doesn't need any emphasis on the mid range."
> Sort of lost interest after that. BloodyPenguin had a pair, but haven't seen his review up yet.


 
  
 The decision to put any earbuds into the champions category must meet two conditions: First, no obvious flaw. Not excelling in a particular music genre is not considered a flaw, as I don't think there is one such headphone that can excel in every music genre. When it comes to flaw, I mean things like graininess, over-thickness, dull / veil,  muddiness, echo-ish / over-reverberation, roll-off, overpowering, etc. Secondly, it must also excel above and beyond in certain area(s). MX985 for its overall balance in all aspects, TM7 for its lifelike presentation, Zen 1 for its Bass and PRaT and Mojito for its neutralness and soundstage. The two factors combined is what make an earbuds sounds 'special' to me - as it puts a smile on my face and goosebump on my back during listening. This is also where Shozy Cygnus comes just slightly short. While it has almost no flaw to speak of, it doesn't really excel in any particular area as well. That's why it misses out on the champions category. Of course, at the end of the days, it is still just one man's opinion.


----------



## chompy

ngoshawk said:


> If I may, the $10 Fiio EM3 earbud works for smaller ears, such as I have. This is a really fine bud with very good soundstage, mids not too forward, good bass and decent treble. They are easy to drive, too...no amp needed. I am finishing my review of them against the Monk, etc and have to say it is really close between the two. The Fiio's fit my ear better, too. Really nice bud, especially for $10.


 
  
 Thanks for this other option, but if it's similar to Monks then I don't know if they would fit my tastes as I find Monks too mid centric.
  


supplehope said:


> The KC08 use 16mm drivers, so they are quite big, actually, and that's another good reason to avoid them if you want the best fit.


 
  
 Then I'll start with Tomahawk, they are lot cheaper and I've usually had problems with big buds, so even if Ostry have done something that made them more confy, spending 90€ on something that I potentially could not use it's too risky.


----------



## golov17

from myself I can only mention disgusting quality control in Shozy


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Does anyone here has any experience on recabling an earbud? 

 If so, how does one go about in prying open the housing of the bud to reveal the driver inside?


 Thank-you


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Does anyone here has any experience on recabling an earbud?
> 
> 
> If so, how does one go about in prying open the housing of the bud to reveal the driver inside?
> ...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Wow! Thanks for the info!!!


----------



## ClieOS

Pictures updated on the first post. Just about 90% of all the earbuds I currently have, didn't bother to find all out from storage.


----------



## Saoshyant

If the opportunity ever arises for me to buy a Zen 1, I really think I should.  So if anyone has one that they're considering selling, just let me know how much you'd like for it.


----------



## gattari

Zen 2 is 320 ohm ? Anyone measured it?


----------



## ClieOS

gattari said:


> Zen 2 is 320 ohm ? Anyone measured it?


 
  
 The actual number is closer to 310 ohm @ 1kHz.


----------



## gattari

Thx Clieos


----------



## Joy Boy

clieos said:


> Pictures updated on the first post. Just about 90% of all the earbuds I currently have, didn't bother to find all out from storage.



Just...wow! So many buds you have. You could hear them 1 by 1 every day for full 3 months




saoshyant said:


> If the opportunity ever arises for me to buy a Zen 1, I really think I should.  So if anyone has one that they're considering selling, just let me know how much you'd like for it.



Me. golov17 ever shared it here. There're brand new stock (maybe last stock) in indonesian local group (facebook: Earbud Lovers indonesia). Last time i checked, there's still 2 of them


----------



## Saoshyant

I wouldn't even begin to know how to inquire about the Zen there, but I appreciate it.


----------



## golov17

KINDEN Silver Plated http://s.aliexpress.com/67B7vAJn

Cygnus cable


----------



## goldenSHK

golov17 said:


> KINDEN Silver Plated http://s.aliexpress.com/67B7vAJn
> 
> Cygnus cable


 
 I wish SHOZY came with detachable cables  it's too expensive and hard to do it yourself DIY.


----------



## music4mhell

Looking at the updated list by Big Boss, i end up ordering Edifier 185 and Jiushao E600, although i already have Edifier 180,190 & Jiushao E300


----------



## NLNH

golov17 said:


> KINDEN Silver Plated http://s.aliexpress.com/67B7vAJn
> 
> Cygnus cable


 
 Not a real oyaide plug there.... but yes on the Cygnus


----------



## Danneq

Rose Mojito sold out on Aliexpress...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> Rose Mojito sold out on Aliexpress...




So it has begun


----------



## ClieOS

Mojito is almost sold out on Taobao as well (last I check, 6 left）, so no surprise, Remember it is original a limited edition up to 100 pairs only.


----------



## ClieOS

Talking about Mojito, this might be an interesting addon: https://world.taobao.com/item/527963922942.htm
  
 Basically two different rubber bumper that will fit Mojito. I prefer B over A, then add foam pad on top of it.


----------



## vapman

clieos said:


> Talking about Mojito, this might be an interesting addon: https://world.taobao.com/item/527963922942.htm
> 
> Basically two different rubber bumper that will fit Mojito. I prefer B over A, then add foam pad on top of it.


 

 Do you have them? My Mojito are to arrive tomorrow or day after, finally!


----------



## tukangketik

golov17 said:


> KINDEN Silver Plated http://s.aliexpress.com/67B7vAJn
> 
> Cygnus cable




It is not cygnus cable, Oleg. Cygnus's is softer and a bit brighter and also feels moist, while this a look more on seahf320 or seahf400, although its not the same cable.


----------



## vapman

tukangketik said:


> It is not cygnus cable, Oleg. Cygnus's is softer and a bit brighter and also feels moist, while this a look more on seahf320 or seahf400, although its not the same cable.


 

 After someone pointed out the 3.5mm plug looks slightly different I noticed they were actually different. From that thumbnail they appear to be almost the same though.
  
 If somewhere does sell the same cable Cygnus uses, I would buy around 10 pairs for DIY


----------



## clee290

The plug looks the same as the one used on the black version of the Tomahawk.


----------



## ClieOS

vapman said:


> Do you have them? My Mojito are to arrive tomorrow or day after, finally!


 
  
  
 Yes, of course.
  


clee290 said:


> The plug looks the same as the one used on the black version of the Tomahawk.


 
  
 Most branded audio plug on Taobao are fake (and sometime they refer it as certain brand simply because it has similar design), but you can find real deal from relatively well-known brand name retailer. If you want real Oyaide 3.5mm plug on Taobao, buy the one from FiiO (which is official Oyaide partner in China, as is Oyaide being official FiiO distributor in Japan). Not that I care - the fake one is actually quite good in quality so that's the one I use on many of my build.


----------



## vapman

Ok, so i should get both the A and B style rings? 
 I might try to find them on Ali first. But, i have to get my Mojito first so I can listen to them


----------



## golov17

The new foams Monk Plus do much good for a different buds with dark sounding


----------



## ClieOS

vapman said:


> Ok, so i should get both the A and B style rings?
> I might try to find them on Ali first. But, i have to get my Mojito first so I can listen to them


 
  
 Up to you. I like the B because it is much more secured when fitted, but A tends to have a less impact on shifting the tonality (*not that B has any ill effect).


----------



## vapman

clieos said:


> Up to you. I like the B because it is much more secured when fitted, but A tends to have a less impact on shifting the tonality (*not that B has any ill effect).


 

 Thanks - just wanted to clarify the tonality question! I'll be sure to post my thoughts once they get in.


----------



## ngoshawk

Begging your pardon, ClieOS, I have added my review of the excellent-value Fiio EM-3 here. What a wonderfully nice bud it is, too.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/fiio-em3-open-earbud-earphones-with-in-line-microphone-black/reviews/15790


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Just wanted to throw this up here, I finished the complete review of the MusicMaker Tomahawk In-Ear (Balanced Version):

 If anyone is interested earphone that was converted from an earbud:  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/musicmaker-tomahawk-in-ear/reviews/15792


----------



## phiely

vapman said:


> Do you have them? My Mojito are to arrive tomorrow or day after, finally!




Link goes to a Russian site.
Is there a better link ?
The Mojito are indeed special even with no burn in - however, they are HUGE for my small ears so they end up tilted in my ears.
Hope the rubber rings will help.
Anyways, what a fun hobby!


----------



## phiely

clieos said:


> Talking about Mojito, this might be an interesting addon: https://world.taobao.com/item/527963922942.htm
> 
> Basically two different rubber bumper that will fit Mojito. I prefer B over A, then add foam pad on top of it.


 

Clarification - I was referring to this link.
Is there another link that goes to a site in English ?


----------



## golov17

phiely said:


> Clarification - I was referring to this link.
> Is there another link that goes to a site in English ?


Google Chrome browser with Google Translate. Enjoy


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Yes, of course.
> 
> 
> Most branded audio plug on Taobao are fake (and sometime they refer it as certain brand simply because it has similar design), but you can find real deal from relatively well-known brand name retailer. If you want real Oyaide 3.5mm plug on Taobao, buy the one from FiiO (which is official Oyaide partner in China, as is Oyaide being official FiiO distributor in Japan). Not that I care - the fake one is actually quite good in quality so that's the one I use on many of my build.




Hey ClieOS, may I kindly know which Taobao Plug do you use? (3.5mm). 

I always buy Yong Sheng plug, are those fake too?


----------



## ClieOS

phiely said:


> Clarification - I was referring to this link.
> Is there another link that goes to a site in English ?


 
  
 Nothing wrong with the link address itself but the problem is Head-fi's redirect engine. Just copy the link as text and paste it to your browser.
  
  


audionewbi3 said:


> Hey ClieOS, may I kindly know which Taobao Plug do you use? (3.5mm).
> 
> I always buy Yong Sheng plug, are those fake too?


 
  
 YongSheng is basically the Chinese side of Neutric / Rean, so no problem there unless you got them from shady dealer. I got mine from here, which is an official distributor: https://ntric.world.taobao.com/category-446003474.htm
  
 However, I use this the most: https://world.taobao.com/item/39583979200.htm You can find the same plug just about everywhere on Taobao and they are usually referred as Oyaide (though they are really not). This particular seller also includes a strain relief, so I usually buy from them. I like it because it has a protruding base that make it easily to insert to recessed 3.5mm socket. Also, I find it to be really easily to solder as well. Of course, YongSheng is still a fine choice if you don't care about the protruding base.


----------



## WillTirta

clieos said:


> Mojito is almost sold out on Taobao as well (last I check, 6 left）, so no surprise, Remember it is original a limited edition up to 100 pairs only.



In taobao acctually still some 10 or more left.. and they still consider whether to make it again or not.. if they decided to make it more.. it will be after mid year.. if not then it will be really rare.. haha

Aliexpress one maybe wont sell anymore.. the one on taobao said that they have cut the ties with the one that sell in ali last march.. so if he still have stock.. then it is the last stock that he has..


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Nothing wrong with the link address itself but the problem is Head-fi's redirect engine. Just copy the link as text and paste it to your browser.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks for the info mate!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

On a side note: 
Fiy bought the legendary Monks


----------



## goldenSHK

Got my SHOZY today. Very much agree with ClieOS they are very close to the Zen 2.0, much better than the Asura 2.0, but they definitely excel at different things than the Zen 2.0. The SHOZY definitely has more detail up top, better mids, and overall crystal clarity associated with audiophile sound. The Zen 2.0 though just seems to have a warm lush signature to it that makes it sound amazing and like a full size headphone and not an earbud. Have to keep listening to see which one is better overall.


----------



## music4mhell

goldenshk said:


> Got my SHOZY today. Very much agree with ClieOS they are very close to the Zen 2.0, much better than the Asura 2.0, but they definitely excel at different things than the Zen 2.0. The SHOZY definitely has more detail up top, better mids, and overall crystal clarity associated with audiophile sound. The Zen 2.0 though just seems to have a warm lush signature to it that makes it sound amazing and like a full size headphone and not an earbud. Have to keep listening to see which one is better overall.


 
 +100


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Vintage NOS Koss Earbuds from Taobao. 

 Sound like you have a cloth covering the speakers, surprisingly hard to drive and hard cable (given it's age)
 Maybe burn in will improve sound.


----------



## ryanjsoo

Just uploaded my Mrz Tomahawk review with some brief comparisons to the Fiio EM3 and Baldoor E100, they`re a real treat to listen to, probably the best before the Cygnus but the cable is horrendous! Anyone had luck re-cabling them, I like the look of the Cygnus cable, maybe I`ll give it a go... Probably won`t fit through the strain reliefs.


----------



## yacobx

Thoughts on 3.14 pr1?


----------



## vapman

ryanjsoo said:


> Just uploaded my Mrz Tomahawk review with some brief comparisons to the Fiio EM3 and Baldoor E100, they`re a real treat to listen to, probably the best before the Cygnus but the cable is horrendous! Anyone had luck re-cabling them, I like the look of the Cygnus cable, maybe I`ll give it a go... Probably won`t fit through the strain reliefs.


 

 You didn't like the Tomahawk's cable? I thought it was really nice and easy to wind up! Not as nice as the Cygnus cable but the Cygnus cable can tangle whereas the Tomahawk is kinda of like a more fancy vesion of the E100's no tangle wire to me.
  
 I would totally buy either the Tomahawk's or Cygnus' wire for recabling other headphones though.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

The Tomahawks cable is a bit sticky at first, but after some use it smooths out and becomes much better.
  
 ..


----------



## ClieOS

I don't particularly like Tomahawk's cable either. Way too springy for my taste. Prefer it to have Ting's cable instead.


----------



## klove4252

yacobx said:


> Thoughts on 3.14 pr1?


 
 I've been trying to get some opinions on these as well. From a brief review I read, they seem pretty decent given the price range.


----------



## vapman

klove4252 said:


> I've been trying to get some opinions on these as well. From a brief review I read, they seem pretty decent given the price range.





I thought this was a pi joke that went over my head...


----------



## fleasbaby

goldenshk said:


> Got my SHOZY today. Very much agree with ClieOS they are very close to the Zen 2.0, much better than the Asura 2.0, but they definitely excel at different things than the Zen 2.0. The SHOZY definitely has more detail up top, better mids, and overall crystal clarity associated with audiophile sound. The Zen 2.0 though just seems to have a warm lush signature to it that makes it sound amazing and like a full size headphone and not an earbud. Have to keep listening to see which one is better overall.


 
  
 I have been switching between the Shozy Cygnus and Monk Plus for the last week. So far the Shozy Cygnus is sounding really good, especially paired with the Shozy Alien Gold DAP. I am still taken aback by how close the Monk comes despite being 5% of the price of the Shozy. Prime difference so far, the Monk's soundstage is like having a row of musicians in front of you, the Shozy's is like have a semi-circle of musicians in front of you.


----------



## vapman

fleasbaby said:


> I have been switching between the Shozy Cygnus and Monk Plus for the last week. So far the Shozy Cygnus is sounding really good, especially paired with the Shozy Alien Gold DAP. I am still taken aback by how close the Monk comes despite being 5% of the price of the Shozy. Prime difference so far, the Monk's soundstage is like having a row of musicians in front of you, the Shozy's is like have a semi-circle of musicians in front of you.


 

 yeah, sound-wise they are very close, with the cygnus having superior imaging/fit/detail as well as some kick ass bass for an earbud. I would say the monk plus is about 90% of the cygnus.


----------



## Saoshyant

Diminishing returns can be a huge pain.  While it's not the route I'd go, I can understand why some people keep at the inexpensive end due to it.  I've spent more in this hobby than I ever expected to, but I don't regret it.


----------



## fleasbaby

saoshyant said:


> Diminishing returns can be a huge pain.  While it's not the route I'd go, I can understand why some people keep at the inexpensive end due to it.  I've spent more in this hobby than I ever expected to, but I don't regret it.


 
  
 Indeed, they can be a pain, but on the bright side, I always think of them as a healthy way to keep manufacturers competitive. They also ensure the modding community is always interested and involved.


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> Diminishing returns can be a huge pain.  While it's not the route I'd go, I can understand why some people keep at the inexpensive end due to it.  I've spent more in this hobby than I ever expected to, but I don't regret it.


 

 I personally think the extra ~$65 I paid for the Cygnus was highly worth it. I have no regrets and I truly love the increased sound quality. I just think it would be dishonest to say it's more than 10-15% different from the Monk Plus. That's a very meaningless measurement, but what I mean to say is the Monk Plus has most of the good qualities of the Cygnus. If I have to choose one or the other for sitting down to enjoy an album, I'll take the Cygnus cause it sounds better and more refined overall and has better bass extension and fit.
  
 I still love the Monks but I don't use them around the house too often. They're more of my going outside earbuds because they're so cheap.


----------



## Saoshyant

Interesting. A couple detachable cable earbuds have popped up in Easy's store, one of which states it uses the PK1 driver for $65. The other is a 15mm driver for $28.


----------



## yacobx

vapman said:


> klove4252 said:
> 
> 
> > I've been trying to get some opinions on these as well. From a brief review I read, they seem pretty decent given the price range.
> ...


 Lol!


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> Interesting. A couple detachable cable earbuds have popped up in Easy's store, one of which states it uses the PK1 driver for $65. The other is a 15mm driver for $28.


 
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-New-Original-****-PK1-15mm-Driver-Speaker-Unit-With-Shell-MMCX-Connector-In-Ear-Earburd/519064_32653345463.html
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-New-Original-Speaker-Unit-With-Shell-can-change-wire-150-ohms-Original-Red-Film-without/519064_32653325595.html
  
 They're both marked as PK1... so only the $65 one is actually PK1 driver?


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman I have zero clue if either actually has the PK1, I just felt a little apprehensive about the validity of a $28 DIY PK1. Could be PK1 drivers are quite inexpensive. Either way, I'm interested in both. Also, unless I misread, neither comes with cables.


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> @vapman I have zero clue if either actually has the PK1, I just felt a little apprehensive about the validity of a $28 DIY PK1. Could be PK1 drivers are quite inexpensive. Either way, I'm interested in both. Also, unless I misread, neither comes with cables.


 

 Yeah, the cheaper one has some non-Yuin brand on it, so it's pretty questionable. EE owes me one for not price adjusting my last order though, so maybe I'll ask them what's up with them 
  
 Kinda ridiculous the no cable one is $65 and the  one with the cable is $105. If you're spending that much on a cable why not get a Linum or something branded?! You can get a plain MMCX cable for like $10-15. I know at the least the Aurisonics Bravo line cables are MMCX and those are like $25.


----------



## Saoshyant

Heck, there's also the Fidue Balanced cable that's around $60 or so. I think it naturally terminates in 2.5mm and has a 3.5mm adapter. Little tempted to pick that up for my HM700, and a new toy might justify the purchase.


----------



## golov17

Some guys do this for yourself


----------



## ClieOS

Those so called DIY PK1 driver has been sold on Taobao for ages, yet so far none has ever being proved to be the real deal - boys, just buy it for fun and don't put your hope too high.


----------



## rggz

I make a video to Penon about my Cygnus, and that's how a blown driver sounds: video


----------



## vapman

My Rose Mojito has arrived in my city finally. Tomorrow I get to hear them...


----------



## jant71

More buds with removable cable is nice but I hope they go away from MMCX. I'd like to see the thinner DC plug(Sleek, Panny, MEE M6Pro etc.) or two pin. Trinity is going two pin now and some newer earphone are going two pin as well.
  
 Not sure if anyone posted about this one yet...http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-HCK-TP1-High-Impedance-150-ohms-Flat-Head-Plug-Earbud-Earphone-HCK-Custom-High-Impedance/1825606_32654824902.html
  
 Looks nice. Copper or silver cable choice. Is called PT1, Yuin style housing, and 150 Ohm but doesn't claim to be the PK1 driver.


----------



## goldenSHK

fleasbaby said:


> I have been switching between the Shozy Cygnus and Monk Plus for the last week. So far the Shozy Cygnus is sounding really good, especially paired with the Shozy Alien Gold DAP. I am still taken aback by how close the Monk comes despite being 5% of the price of the Shozy. Prime difference so far, the Monk's soundstage is like having a row of musicians in front of you, the Shozy's is like have a semi-circle of musicians in front of you.


 
 I don't know about the monk+ but I have the monk, Zen 2, and Asura 2 and I can confidently say that the Cygnus has much more clarity than the Monk and even the Zen 2, so I definitely wouldn't say they are close in the treble and mids, but I agree that it's really surprising for me that the bass texture and resolution on the $5 Monk is almost as good as the Cygnus. If the Monk+ is insanely good in mids and clarity of highs, maybe that is something else. It might be a game changer. I would still take the Cygnus over the Monk 1.0 any day. 
  
 I am going to write a massive list similar to ClieOS's list soon because I have a lot of earbuds now in my collection and more incoming in the mail (Monk+ etc).


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Those so called DIY PK1 driver has been sold on Taobao for ages, yet so far none has ever being proved to be the real deal - boys, just buy it for fun and don't put your hope too high.




Yeah, I believe that is what you've told me sometime ago.

But, the OEM drivers can sound bloody good if tuned properly IMHO


----------



## AudioNewbi3

saoshyant said:


> Heck, there's also the Fidue Balanced cable that's around $60 or so. I think it naturally terminates in 2.5mm and has a 3.5mm adapter. Little tempted to pick that up for my HM700, and a new toy might justify the purchase.


 
 Mind I ask do you use your HM700 with an amp?
 If so, how do you use it? As far my HM700, there is only a HO and no LO, so I am somewhat reluctant to pair it with an amp as that would be double amping (which I assume is bad).

 Thank-you


----------



## Saoshyant

@AudioNewbi3 I've always listened straight from the HM700.  I know I can get better sound with my X5/Mojo combo, but I like the pairing with the HM700 well enough.  I haven't looked into what it'd take to add an amp to the chain and keep the balanced signal going, most likely involving a specialty cable, and most certainly an expensive amp.  Never particularly liked how they go from balanced to single ended on the HM700, felt too clunky.
  
 Also, while opinions vary, double amping isn't nearly as bad as it used to be as equipment has improved.  The main two issues I can think of off the top of my head is that you're adding another level of coloration to the sound, and you increase the possibility of audible noise when using the setup.  I'm sure there are other issues, but  I really don't find it anything to worry about.  I double amp with my Sansa Clip Zip/+, xDuoo X2, Fiio M3, & Kogan.  All of which sound lovely with a nice amp like the RSA Shadow.


----------



## music4mhell

saoshyant said:


> @AudioNewbi3 I've always listened straight from the HM700.  I know I can get better sound with my X5/Mojo combo, but I like the pairing with the HM700 well enough.  I haven't looked into what it'd take to add an amp to the chain and keep the balanced signal going, most likely involving a specialty cable, and most certainly an expensive amp.  Never particularly liked how they go from balanced to single ended on the HM700, felt too clunky.


 
 For me Mojo is heaven


----------



## Saoshyant

music4mhell said:


> For me Mojo is heaven


 
  
 Do you ever add an amp to the chain?  I know for the most part, popular opinion is about 90% of what you're buying with the Mojo is the DAC which is phenomenal, and the amp is solid too.  I don't really own anything that needs more power than the Mojo provides, but sometimes want to try out a decent tube amp.


----------



## music4mhell

saoshyant said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > For me Mojo is heaven
> ...


 
 On paper Mojo can handle up to 600 Ohms.
 I don't use any other amp, even i don't own any, i have only 1 Hifi product, i.e. the Mojo.
 I like the musicality or Mojo, i can use Darkhorse 400 Ohms earbud to Cygnus only 16 Ohms, No issues till now.
  
 Pure Bliss


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> On paper Mojo can handle up to 600 Ohms.
> I don't use any other amp, even i don't own any, i have only 1 Hifi product, i.e. the Mojo.
> I like the musicality or Mojo, i can use Darkhorse 400 Ohms earbud to Cygnus only 16 Ohms, No issues till now.
> 
> Pure Bliss




Mojo is amazing, only compare to my best dac+tube amp combos, minus tube noise.

I miss cayin c5 but too powerful for most of the volume knob to be usable. Amazing sound though

Currently using mojo or e5 into project starlight and love it. May go all mojo though. It's good enough. The e5 is fun but the headphone amp is lacking in juice. Mojo has plenty for any headphone... the bass paper test with jvc sz2000 is proof. E5 could not even move the paper but is still good enough for earbuds

Mojo built in amp could be better but is damn good and fully capable.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

saoshyant said:


> @AudioNewbi3 I've always listened straight from the HM700.  I know I can get better sound with my X5/Mojo combo, but I like the pairing with the HM700 well enough.  I haven't looked into what it'd take to add an amp to the chain and keep the balanced signal going, most likely involving a specialty cable, and most certainly an expensive amp.  Never particularly liked how they go from balanced to single ended on the HM700, felt too clunky.
> 
> Also, while opinions vary, double amping isn't nearly as bad as it used to be as equipment has improved.  The main two issues I can think of off the top of my head is that you're adding another level of coloration to the sound, and you increase the possibility of audible noise when using the setup.  I'm sure there are other issues, but  I really don't find it anything to worry about.  I double amp with my Sansa Clip Zip/+, xDuoo X2, Fiio M3, & Kogan.  All of which sound lovely with a nice amp like the RSA Shadow.


 
 Thanks for the reply mate!

 The reason I was asking was because I own the Hifiman HM700S (Single ended version).

 My main concern with double amping is that the HM700S is very very very prone to hiss. I can basically detect it when noting is playing......and the fact that you get a loud pop on power on and power off..........

 Man why did I took my chance at the Hifiman Lottery (LOL)


----------



## Joy Boy

And now it's what you got from ELi-bud Sabia. Earbud project from ELi (earbud lovers indonesia) group. A complete and serious packaging for a $10 earbud.
And what about the sounds? Out of the box it sounds incredible. Really!
Sparkling treble, delicate vocal but not too forward, and the most exciting is the low quality. Very good bass control with superb impact.
Good clarity, and luxury staging with 3D imaging. The width and depth sound perfect. Detail is superb with good separation. Maybe, if they could make vocal thicker and sweeter, it would climb to asura level. But hey, for its price the performance is already outstanding.
Worth every penny and best bud under $25 that i've ever heard so far #IMHO


----------



## Saoshyant

audionewbi3 said:


> Thanks for the reply mate!
> 
> The reason I was asking was because I own the Hifiman HM700S (Single ended version).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ok, went single ended with my RE600 to get a base line for the amount of hiss, and adding an RSA Shadow into the line, the hiss was gone.  At least I was unable to notice it.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

joy boy said:


> And now it's what you got from ELi-bud Sabia. Earbud project from ELi (earbud lovers indonesia) group. A complete and serious packaging for a $10 earbud.
> And what about the sounds? Out of the box it sounds incredible. Really!
> Sparkling treble, delicate vocal but not too forward, and the most exciting is the low quality. Very good bass control with superb impact.
> Good clarity, and luxury staging with 3D imaging. The width and depth sound perfect. Detail is superb with good separation. Maybe, if they could make vocal thicker and sweeter, it would climb to asura level. But hey, for its price the performance is already outstanding.
> Worth every penny and best bud under $25 that i've ever heard so far #IMHO


 
  
 Wow! O.o glad I ordered a piece!


saoshyant said:


> Ok, went single ended with my RE600 to get a base line for the amount of hiss, and adding an RSA Shadow into the line, the hiss was gone.  At least I was unable to notice it.


 
 0.o! That is very surprising, I thought that by adding an amp to the chain, one would surely have amplified the hiss to more audible levels instead of eliminating it (audibly at least).

 Thanks for taking the time to try it out. May I kindly know at what volume did you set your HM700 at prior to HO into the RSA? 100%?

 Thank-you


----------



## Saoshyant

@AudioNewbi3 Yep, 100% on HM700.  At first I wasn't thinking and kept the HM700 at normal volume and just raised the volume on the RSA until it was at a good listening level, which certainly resulted in a louder hiss.


----------



## stilleh

So I have been comparing the VE Zen 2.0 black edition (Cardas cable) to the Shozy Cygnus. Zen has easily over 150 hours burn in/usage and Cygnus has about 50 hours.
  
 Using Fiio X7 fw 1.8 with AM2 module and running Viper4android and Poweramp.
  
 They both sound really good to my ears. REALLY good. I´m using rubber rings and donut foam on Zen and the included donut on the Cygnus. To my ears, the Zen is more crisp and clean and has wider soundstage. Cygnus might have some edge on bass but for me it feels more due to fit. Cygnus shell is just so damn comfy and fit right away. I have to fiddle a bit with the Zen but if I get that lockfit, man oh man they just sing.
  
 If I add the Oppo HA-2 to the mix to amp some I say the Zen moves out of reach even more. So many things is brought forward in the music with Zen 2.0 when you push it. I´d love to try them out with a Mojo or VE RA 2.0...


----------



## klove4252

stilleh said:


> So I have been comparing the VE Zen 2.0 black edition (Cardas cable) to the Shozy Cygnus. Zen has easily over 150 hours burn in/usage and Cygnus has about 50 hours.
> 
> Using Fiio X7 fw 1.8 with AM2 module and running Viper4android and Poweramp.
> 
> ...


 
 I still haven't tried the Zen 2, but the Cygnus is the only earbud I really listen to anymore. I have the Asura 2.0, but I prefer the Cygnus sound. I'll have to check out the Zen 2 after my Monk + arrive. Thanks for the comparison.


----------



## lexus91

Maybe its kinda late. but finally get my hand on both Ostry KC08 and Creative Aurvana Air. 
  
 I'll first talk about aurvana Air since they are so easily loved. airy sound. on the warmer side. amazing vocals. very good details. IMO sounds so smooth and refined. bass impact and quality also very good. overall i really like them. IMO probably the best vocal presentation i've ever heard. (even more than tomahawk, and yes i've been praising tomahawk a lot). I think they're goin to be my daily driver. 
  
 KC08. I personally prefer a slightly warm sound. lush velvety mids. so when i listened to KC08 : DRY. again DRY. I first listened to the air, then goes to KC08, so when i goes back to KC08 they felt so cold and dry. If not because I paid for a pretty hefty sum for them i probably would just put them back on my compartment box . Since they're pretty pricey I decided to force my self to listen to them. changing the tracks here and there. The Lows.. that bass.. IMO are the one of the best if not the best i've ever heard from earbuds. Yes even more then Zen V1. goes so deep. hits hard and controlled. amazing texture. also the highs. amazing,, sparkly, for my ears almost but no sibilance (and i own TH600, for me they sounds sibilance). highs also extended very well. 
  
 Listened to KC08 for a while and they sound, just great. if not for my preferences for slightly warm sounding earphones they easily become my favorites. sounds so clean, amazing details. no real roll off on every directions. I feel like KC08 needs more love .
  
 Edit:
  
 Tried replace the original ostry foam with donut foam (MrZ's) = mids changed, not as dry. Now they sings. not as cold, still not warm. but better. Clearly V-shaped. 
  
 The tried replace with full foams (again MrZ's) = do the magic. its not the velvety, lush engaging vocals. but clearly much better (for my preference) compared to the very dry mids when using the original foam, sounds less airy than the original foam though.
  
 Last i tried using BOE's donut (i always feels they are slighlty thinner on material - slightly bigger opening compared to mrz's and ve's). still V-shaped, vocals not as recessed as mrz's donut though. retains the airiness.
  
 so i'm currently pondering between full foams and BOE's donut. 
  
 So IMO KC08 with original foam - yes the mids very dry. if not for the exceptional bass and highs (also the high price) i won;t even bother listened to them. but playing around with the foam improves it a lot. it won't be warm/lush/intimate vocals. But improves them a lot. coming from TH600 (yes the have recessed mids) I personally can live with it. 
  
 oh also my KC08 is secondhand unit with atleast 100 h usage time. aurvana is brand new.
  
  
  
 my setup : calyx m - woo wa 7 - earbuds


----------



## supplehope

Have to get some different types of foams to hear more differences of the KC08s.

Using and currently sticking with the "fancy" foams, the sub-bass is actually more present and the mids are slightly more transparent than dry to my ears, while missing out the tightness of the mid bass that was from the original foams. Wonder what will other earbuds sounds like if they are put with the "fancy" foams?

Like in-ears with eartips, it seems that different foams definitely and obviously varies the sound(s) of one particular pair earbuds as well. And that is the fun of this hobby: it's not only all about the stuff that you have, it's also about what kinds of experiments you mess with those stuff as well.


----------



## lexus91

supplehope said:


> Have to get some different types of foams to hear more differences of the KC08s.
> 
> Using and currently sticking with the "fancy" foams, the sub-bass is actually more present and the mids are slightly more transparent than dry to my ears, while missing out the tightness of the mid bass that was from the original foams. Wonder what will other earbuds sounds like if they are put with the "fancy" foams?
> 
> Like in-ears with eartips, it seems that different foams definitely and obviously varies the sound(s) of one particular pair earbuds as well.


 
 true. for me the fancy foams doesn't suit my taste. play around with various foam on my storage, and currently I love how they sound.


----------



## supplehope

lexus91 said:


> true. for me the fancy foams doesn't suit my taste. play around with various foam on my storage, and currently I love how they sound.




Yea can see how repelling the KC08 (even with the fancy foams) are to most, but for me and I am sure most wouldn't agree as well, it was worth the 599 yuen and I do realise that it was really steep for a pair of earbuds.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

saoshyant said:


> @AudioNewbi3 Yep, 100% on HM700.  At first I wasn't thinking and kept the HM700 at normal volume and just raised the volume on the RSA until it was at a good listening level, which certainly resulted in a louder hiss.


 
 Thanks for the informative reply mate! Really appreciate it.

 Cheers


----------



## vapman

lexus91 said:


> Maybe its kinda late. but finally get my hand on both Ostry KC08 and Creative Aurvana Air.


 
 Thanks for posting your thoughts. I'm still curious about the Aurvana Air. if you ranked all your earbuds, how would you rate them? I keep almost buying the Aurvana Air but don't...


----------



## vapman

Mojito made it finally!





A bit bright but incredibly fun to listen to... amazing bass extension and depth. If it fit better (like the Cygnus) it'd be too good to be true. The fit is the main issue with these but when you get them seated right they're immensely rewarding.

So much depth and soundstage and the sound goes so deep... finding myself listening to all sorts of stuff i don't even like a ton because I love how much fun it is listening to these. That's the sign of a winner.

The bad.... the fit sucks unless you have big ears (even if the fit is awkward for you, they're big enough you can get used to how to put em in right). Can be a bit bright... it's a bit bright for me, but I keep listening to them, partially because the bass depth rocks! Also the paint was scuffed on both the earbuds near the 2 pin plugs. 

Such good bass impact for an earbud though! I'm shocked, I'm excited to see how the zen is compared to this if the Zen is supposed to be the earbud bass king :O


----------



## lexus91

vapman said:


> Thanks for posting your thoughts. I'm still curious about the Aurvana Air. if you ranked all your earbuds, how would you rate them? I keep almost buying the Aurvana Air but don't...


 
 This is all only my opinion:
  
 1. Ostry KC08
 2. Zen V1
 3. Tomahawk / Aurvana Air
 4. BOE
 5. Monk
  
 Its kind of hard for me to choose between tomahawk or air. 
 The air ergonomics is better imo. sounded more airy and smoother. I feels vocals sounds better on air. but they do roll off on the treble department. and they are on the warm side.
  
 Tomahawk is more balanced (is this the right word?) through out the frequencies. slightly harsher, more energetic. 
  
 I use tomahawk since they used to be my daily driver. 
 again this is all just my opinion.


----------



## vapman

I think I've finally started to figure out how to put the Mojito in my ears properly, haha. They're pretty amazing. No arguments here that they're TOTL.
  
 I'll post more detailed thoughts or answer any questions about them, but I am pretty much in agreement with @ClieOS suggestion that they're very much like Etymotics in earbud form. The main difference though is Etys are pretty bass light, and these (when worn properly) have killer bass extension, refinement and depth.
  
 I'm going to mess with the Aurisonics 2 pin cables as those have the memory wire which might be good for keeping these in a position where they can really pound bass.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> I think I've finally started to figure out how to put the Mojito in my ears properly, haha. They're pretty amazing. No arguments here that they're TOTL.
> 
> I'll post more detailed thoughts or answer any questions about them, but I am pretty much in agreement with @ClieOS
> suggestion that they're very much like Etymotics in earbud form. The main difference though is Etys are pretty bass light, and these (when worn properly) have killer bass extension, refinement and depth.
> ...


you try earhoox?


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> you try earhoox?





need to find mine...lost them 

edit... Okay, really need to find earhoox now. Using with Aurisonics cable with the memory wire ear hooks and fit issue is 100% solved. wow. heavy thumping bass!


----------



## goldenSHK

So I am writing a massive comprehensive list of earbud rankings very similar to ClieOS's rankings, and I just took my Blox earbuds out after months of basically forgetting about them. I am astounded by how great they still sound compared to the new earbuds. They are simply phenomenal and let's just say that in terms of soundstage they are as good as the Zen, I'll release my list after I'm done listening to all of my earbuds in my collection and waiting for the Monk+ to arrive to add them in the rankings. But I wanted to ask here, does anyone here have the higher end blox models in their position still (I mean the high end ones such as BE7/BE5 and Anv3/TM7 not BE3/M2C)? Because they compete very, very well with the VE products and high end stuff even to this day. I think the reason that they are no longer talked about anymore is because no one has them anymore and can't purchase them anymore. Expect to see Blox models still do well in my rankings.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

goldenshk said:


> So I am writing a massive comprehensive list of earbud rankings very similar to ClieOS's rankings, and I just took my Blox earbuds out after months of basically forgetting about them. I am astounded by how great they still sound compared to the new earbuds. They are simply phenomenal and let's just say that in terms of soundstage they are as good as the Zen, I'll release my list after I'm done listening to all of my earbuds in my collection and waiting for the Monk+ to arrive to add them in the rankings. But I wanted to ask here, does anyone here have the higher end blox models in their position still (I mean the high end ones such as BE7/BE5 and Anv3/TM7 not BE3/M2C)? Because they compete very, very well with the VE products and high end stuff even to this day. I think the reason that they are no longer talked about anymore is because no one has them anymore and can't purchase them anymore. Expect to see Blox models still do well in my rankings.


 
 Looking forward to the list mate!


----------



## golov17

For my taste: be5>be7>be3>m2c 
Although, technically, be7> be5, and m2c> be3


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Quick question:
  
 How do you guys burn in your earbud?


----------



## rggz

audionewbi3 said:


> Quick question:
> 
> How do you guys burn in your earbud?


 
 Like that?


  
 lol, I believe more in "brain in" over "burn in", is a bit controversial, but it's free so who cares...
  


> http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/tipstricks.htm
> 
> A headphone straight out of the box often may sound light at the bass and slightly aggressive or diffuse. The electromechanical properties of the drivers haven't settled down yet. It is strongly recommended to run the headphones for 24..48* hours with some continuous bass-heavy music* before you start listening. First have the music run for a few hours at a low sound level. Next a few hours at medium level and after this the headphones can be run at a high level for the rest of the break-in.
> 
> Break-in improves the mechanical properties of the suspension of the drivers and also "tightens" the windings of the coil. With some headphones the difference is day and night 

 Also, some folks use pink noise, I just listen my music usually.


----------



## golov17

Just play my music


----------



## goldenSHK

golov17 said:


> For my taste: be5>be7>be3>m2c
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, almost exactly same with me. I prefer the BE5 slightly better. They are really good and don't get talked about a lot here. Very different feel than the new type of earbuds discussed here, more distant, natural, sound. 
  
 I am thinking of recabling my Blox to put some removable cables since their normal cables aren't that great and the weak point. I just can't find good 2 pin female connectors or shure female connectors to install in the buds.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

rggz said:


> Like that?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


golov17 said:


> Just play my music


 
 Thanks for the info mates!


----------



## lexus91

So here they come! Sabia Earbuds. 
 Indonesian made earbuds priced at $ 10. (approximately) 
  
 short impression : 
  
 very clear they are aimed at monk's market share. Sabia has neutral sounding sound signature. neutral to warm sound. i like how they presented the mids, sounds so pleasant. the lows not as punchy and deep as monk but still adequate, feels a bit bloated though for me. they have nice wide soundstage. overall i like them more compared to monk. the monk sounds slightly more refined though, as i feel Sabia sounds is ever so slightly grainy.


----------



## golov17

Expect selling on eBay


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> Expect selling on eBay


 
  
 For what?  The Sabia Earbuds?
  
 --


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> For what?  The Sabia Earbuds?
> 
> --


yup


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> Thanks for the info mates!




I used to do pink noise and sine sweeps but I had a feeling all the sine sweeps would make the headphones sound "flat" so now I just play my music a bit quieter than usual on loop when not listenin 

I am only waiting for the Zen 2.0 to get here before I declare the Mojito the best sounding earbud I've ever heard. Crushes the Cygnus in every manner. As the cygnus was my last #1 earbud, it's been dethroned to #2 position.

Will update my list when Zen 2.0 gets here but for now Mojito is preferable to everything except my ASG 2.5 at the moment..... like it's REALLY REALLY good.


Mojito & skateboard

I've gotten more used to the Mojito's brightness I think, I'm more okay with it now than when it first showed up, maybe it's just a bit of necessary burning in. No noticable difference in sound between the cables, I think, at least not glaringly obvious difference. My only actual complaint is there's the tiniest gap between the colored plated on the outside that say "Rose" and the metal ring they attach to, and it's possible for a hair or 2 to get caught in there if you have long hair. So whoever designed the Mojito must have short hair


----------



## golov17

Drivers


----------



## vapman

Ouch... lots of repair needed


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Ouch... lots of repair needed :eek:


already (old photos)


----------



## vapman

Zen 2.0 and monk plus just arrived 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I bought the day before they started selling expansion pack - haha
 give me a few hours to listen and i'll post Zen 2.0 vs Mojito thoughts


----------



## goldenSHK

Does anyone know anywhere that sells good 2 pin custom IEM female and male heads? I am looking into recabling some of my earbuds and if I'm going to open them up and recable I might as well make them removable to make sure they last a long time. 

 I haven't been able to find many places that sell good quality 2 pin male and female heads, or even Shure style pins, I don't really mind. Thanks in advance.


----------



## vapman

goldenshk said:


> Does anyone know anywhere that sells good 2 pin custom IEM female and male heads? I am looking into recabling some of my earbuds and if I'm going to open them up and recable I might as well make them removable to make sure they last a long time.
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find many places that sell good quality 2 pin male and female heads, or even Shure style pins, I don't really mind. Thanks in advance.





You mean just the 2 pin connectors themselves? you can get those any big electronics distributor  

I've done some more Zen vs Mojito listening and wanted to offer my thoughts on the champions (I know ClieOS championed the Zen v1, not the Zen v2, but it's what I have)

Zen 2.0 is a warm, bassy, relaxed sound signature but still very detailed and thorough. Mojito is like STAX Electrostatics in an earbud.
Zen 2.0 is a bassier sound but I dare say the Mojito has better bass extension and reach, whereas Zen has a more bass heavy overall sound.
Also like electrostatics and Etymotics, Mojito is a very fast sound. incredibly detailed with any style of track. No detail is lost at all. Very balanced, neutral, unbiased sound.
Zen 2.0 is better & easier for longer term listening. Comfort & fit is part of this - Mojito is not the easiest to fit earbud out there.
Mojito wins hands down on detailing, imaging, soundstage, and clarity.
Zen 2.0 sounds like a warmer, more balanced Asura 2.0 - also has a smoother sound than the Mojito. Detail is definitely improved with donut foams for Zen.
Mojito can be a bit bright at times with impressive treble reach, but is not sibilant at all, also like electrostatics/Etys.

To be honest if I had to pick one of the two I'd pick the Mojito, despite how it can be brighter and not up front bassier than the Mojito.


----------



## clee290

goldenshk said:


> Does anyone know anywhere that sells good 2 pin custom IEM female and male heads? I am looking into recabling some of my earbuds and if I'm going to open them up and recable I might as well make them removable to make sure they last a long time.
> 
> I haven't been able to find many places that sell good quality 2 pin male and female heads, or even Shure style pins, I don't really mind. Thanks in advance.


 

 Check out Lunashops. They have lots of stuff for making your own cables. 2-pin connectors, MMCX connectors, 3.5mm connectors, the cables themselves, etc.


----------



## chicken beer

frederick wang said:


> Thanks for bringing those earbuds to my attention, I did some research on Chinese forums, the #3 #4 #5 are developed by the same team, #5 being the newest. From the very limited reviews, opinions seem to favor the #5, 400ohm version.
> 
> http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4209779979 (in Chinese)
> 
> ...


 
  
 I never thought seahf, or earbug are recognized by head-fi. 
  
 My mom recently purchased them and will bring them to me. She is non-audiophile, but she directly told me that seahf sounds awesome, and she favored the earbug 400 ohm (with seahf label on it) compared to Yuin PK1.


----------



## yacobx

chicken beer said:


> frederick wang said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for bringing those earbuds to my attention, I did some research on Chinese forums, the #3 #4 #5 are developed by the same team, #5 being the newest. From the very limited reviews, opinions seem to favor the #5, 400ohm version.
> ...


 
 I stay away from seahf after i heard they were the company trying to sell fake zen 2's.... lol


----------



## chicken beer

Seahf is just a label on the case though~


----------



## yacobx

chicken beer said:


> Seahf is just a label on the case though~


 
 elaborate that please


----------



## chicken beer

Wrote a very brief description about earbug, the seahf maker, and it's history with ve in my very last post, and as chinese I know yhat's the fact~


----------



## yacobx

chicken beer said:


> Wrote a very brief description about earbug, the seahf maker, and it's history with ve in my very last post, and as chinese I know yhat's the fact~


 
 I do not understand but thats ok! Im curious of your impressions when you get them tho.


----------



## ClieOS

chicken beer said:


> Wrote a very brief description about earbug, the seahf maker, and it's history with ve in my very last post, and as chinese I know yhat's the fact~


 
  
 Ok, I do think I know that actual story behind VE vs. SeaHF but I have promised someone that I won't share it. I can however tell you that the story you know isn't the whole story (and certainly not the popular version people are referring over the Chinese forum) as it is a bit more complicated than that. Just want to mention it here so rumor won't spread further than it already has.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> Ok, I do think I know that actual story behind VE vs. SeaHF but I have promised someone that I won't share it. I can however tell you that the story you know isn't the whole story (and certainly not the popular version people are referring over the Chinese forum) as it is a bit more complicated than that. Just want to mention it here so rumor won't spread further than it already has.


----------



## music4mhell

chicken beer said:


> frederick wang said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for bringing those earbuds to my attention, I did some research on Chinese forums, the #3 #4 #5 are developed by the same team, #5 being the newest. From the very limited reviews, opinions seem to favor the #5, 400ohm version.
> ...


 
 Now a days my daily driver is Darkhorse G400 which is 400 Ohms Seahf driver.


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> Now a days my daily driver is Darkhorse G400 which is 400 Ohms Seahf driver.


 

 How do you compare it to Cygnus and Zen 2? We both own the Cygnus and Zen2 and I'm curious about the G400


----------



## chicken beer

music4mhell said:


> Now a days my daily driver is Darkhorse G400 which is 400 Ohms Seahf driver.


 Cool!!


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Now a days my daily driver is Darkhorse G400 which is 400 Ohms Seahf driver.
> ...


 
 Cygnus is more musical where as Zen 2 is more analytical. In other words Cygnus is a bit colored, Zen 2 is neutral type.
  
 But to be frank, IMHO, Dark Horse/SEHF G400 is at a different level


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> Cygnus is more musical where as Zen 2 is more analytical. In other words Cygnus is a bit colored, Zen 2 is neutral type.
> 
> But to be frank, IMHO, Dark Horse/SEHF G400 is at a different level


 

 You prefer it to the Zen 2 as well? The Rose Mojito is the only earbud I know to top the Zen 2... interesting.
  
 EE has the G400 for a bit over $100 but I think I'm happy with what I have for now until I start selling some of my earbuds I don't use as much


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Cygnus is more musical where as Zen 2 is more analytical. In other words Cygnus is a bit colored, Zen 2 is neutral type.
> ...


 
 Yes i feel G400 better than Zen 2 any day


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> Yes i feel G400 better than Zen 2 any day


 
 Hmmmm... I'll have to try it out someday...
  
 Better all around? Zen 2 really has no benefit over G400?


----------



## golov17

All IMHO, guys... 
In this sense, I am very fond of VE beta Asura in their intimate musicality


----------



## goldenSHK

Anyone know or can confirm that this cable on lunashop is similar in feel and type to the Cygnus cable? I want to do some DIY removable cables and IMO cygnus cable is the best quality on an earbud I've seen so I want something similar. 
  
 http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=5335


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Yes i feel G400 better than Zen 2 any day
> ...


 
 Let do an AB testing and will let you know latest update 
  
 Because i am using G400 always, i have nt touched Zen 2 for more than 1 month.


----------



## golov17

goldenshk said:


> Anyone know or can confirm that this cable on lunashop is similar in feel and type to the Cygnus cable? I want to do some DIY removable cables and IMO cygnus cable is the best quality on an earbud I've seen so I want something similar.
> 
> http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=5335


like this (g400 cable)

http://s.aliexpress.com/67B7vAJn


----------



## yacobx

golov17 said:


> goldenshk said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone know or can confirm that this cable on lunashop is similar in feel and type to the Cygnus cable? I want to do some DIY removable cables and IMO cygnus cable is the best quality on an earbud I've seen so I want something similar.
> ...


 
 dude! im gonna buy those for my IEMs!


----------



## NLNH

goldenshk said:


> Anyone know or can confirm that this cable on lunashop is similar in feel and type to the Cygnus cable? I want to do some DIY removable cables and IMO cygnus cable is the best quality on an earbud I've seen so I want something similar.
> 
> http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=5335




it's.... very different


----------



## vapman

nlnh said:


> it's.... very different


 

 yeah, definitely not the same as Cygnus cable... looks very close but the doesn't seem to have the same chin strap to pull, cygnus doesn't have mmcx, and the 3.5mm is different.
  
 it is the closest to the Cygnus cable i've ever seen as a DIY cable though


----------



## ballog

The Ting are only $67 from HCK right now! 2016 New MusicMaker Ting In Ear Earphone HIFI Flat Head Headphones Fever DIY Headset Full Metal Cover Top Sound Free Shipping
http://s.aliexpress.com/BNfEVRbQ
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Closet ever I have come to a Cygnus cable.
 It's all the cable used by BugBro's high impedance earbuds(Including G400).
 I would argue that t is softer than Cygnus
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-2705102940.54.1vwbui&id=522663834336


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Sir @golov17 may I kindly know what do you think about the Fareal Earbuds which you currently own? (The white earbud with blue cable which you posted in ELI)

 How does it compare to the monk+?

 Thank-you


----------



## goldenSHK

nlnh said:


> it's.... very different


 

 In what way is it very different? Is it less soft and malleable? I only care about the softness and lightness of the cable, like a silky cloth. Is it hard/brittle? What makes it "very" different? Thanks in advance. 

 Quote: 





audionewbi3 said:


> Closet ever I have come to a Cygnus cable.
> It's all the cable used by BugBro's high impedance earbuds(Including G400).
> I would argue that t is softer than Cygnus
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-2705102940.54.1vwbui&id=522663834336


 

 That looks really interesting, is there anywhere else besides taobao to buy that such as AliExpress? It is too much of a hassle to justify picking up some wire to go through the international taobao process.


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Sir @golov17
> may I kindly know what do you think about the Fareal Earbuds which you currently own? (The white earbud with blue cable which you posted in ELI)
> 
> 
> ...


not yet, waiting..


----------



## golov17

goldenshk said:


> In what way is it very different? Is it less soft and malleable? I only care about the softness and lightness of the cable, like a silky cloth. Is it hard/brittle? What makes it "very" different? Thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> That looks really interesting, is there anywhere else besides taobao to buy that such as AliExpress? It is too much of a hassle to justify picking up some wire to go through the international taobao process.



 http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=5335


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> not yet, waiting..


 
 Then how does the Fareal sound?


----------



## goldenSHK

golov17 said:


> http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=5335


 
 Isn't this the exact item I linked above Golov?


----------



## golov17

goldenshk said:


> Isn't this the exact item I linked above Golov?


yup


----------



## EarbudMan

keep update


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> Sir golov17 may I kindly know what do you think about the Fareal Earbuds which you currently own? (The white earbud with blue cable which you posted in ELI)
> 
> How does it compare to the monk+?
> 
> Thank-you


 
  
 I'm not golov17, but I like to think I channel his inner spirit.  

 I also have those Fareal Earbuds (https://world.taobao.com/item/39799975846.htm) that you just asked about, on the way to me.  I hope to have them in about a week or so, I will be posting up my impressions then. 

 I'm going to compare the:  Monk, Monk Plus, Suvov S20, Fareal, Eli Bud and any other budget earbuds that get to me in that time.  All of which are currently heading to me from all over the globe.  It is like that scene from "War Games", tracking all those missiles coming at the US.
  
  
*Earbuds Inbound! * 


  
 --


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> I'm not golov17, but I like to think I channel his inner spirit.
> 
> I also have those Fareal Earbuds (https://world.taobao.com/item/39799975846.htm) that you just asked about, on the way to me.  I hope to have them in about a week or so, I will be posting up my impressions then.
> 
> ...


 
 Looking forward to it mate!
 In case you missed out, here are two other budget earbuds I found recently
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a210c.3.3.4.ujh0uL&id=529399390775 
  
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5-c.w4002-12901391378.27.HQBrzi&id=526240125482
  
 Very much looking forward to your findings


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> Looking forward to it mate!
> In case you missed out, here are two other budget earbuds I found recently
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a210c.3.3.4.ujh0uL&id=529399390775
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice finds!  

 I must say, that first link looks a lot like a Seahf spin off.  

 The site:  https://shop147984684.world.taobao.com/ comes with the same ‎‎Ω options and cables that Seahf has, but who knows!  
  
 --


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> Nice finds!
> 
> I must say, that first link looks a lot like a Seahf spin off.
> 
> ...


 
 The earbud is made by seahf. It even appeared on SeaHf's Teiba Baidu. However, the low impedance SeaHf seems to be only available via the particular which I haved linked you too. 

 I believe that the 400Ohms earbuds which you see on Taobao are all by SeaHf despite different seller names. (Maybe they have differnt tunning, who knows)


----------



## Joy Boy

audionewbi3 said:


> Then how does the Fareal sound?



I have both fareal bud. May be it could help a little.
The black one said that it has monk old batch driver (red mark monk) and produced by same production house. I don't have old monk. But my friend said that it's pretty similar (he has both old&new monk, and both fareal too). Compared to ordinary monk, it has thicker vocal, deeper bass, but less staging&detail.
While the blue one is brighter. Better detail and crisp treble, slightly thin vocal. A little bit peaky sometimes. Leaner bass but better control and impact.

Black one is omnivorous. Blue one, in my opinion, better for agressive song (metal,punk,etc).


----------



## AudioNewbi3

joy boy said:


> I have both fareal bud. May be it could help a little.
> The black one said that it has monk old batch driver (red mark monk) and produced by same production house. I don't have old monk. But my friend said that it's pretty similar (he has both old&new monk, and both fareal too). Compared to ordinary monk, it has thicker vocal, deeper bass, but less staging&detail.
> While the blue one is brighter. Better detail and crisp treble, slightly thin vocal. A little bit peaky sometimes. Leaner bass but better control and impact.
> 
> Black one is omnivorous. Blue one, in my opinion, better for agressive song (metal,punk,etc).


 
 Oh Thanks for the info! That is really helpful.
 Would you say the White blue Faareal is like a DIY Dual Driver?

 How is the soundstage on both?


----------



## Joy Boy

audionewbi3 said:


> Oh Thanks for the info! That is really helpful.
> 
> Would you say the White blue Faareal is like a DIY Dual Driver?
> 
> ...




Dual driver has better soundstage and clarity


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> I believe that the 400Ohms earbuds which you see on Taobao are all by SeaHf despite different seller names. (Maybe they have differnt tunning, who knows)


 
 Hmm, I might go looking for an inexpensive 400 ohm on AliExpress. I've been pretty curious about the 400 ohm SeaHf's for a little while now, especially now that I have the Zen 2 and know how good it is 
  
 I may sell my Zen 2 one day, but it would only be to buy a black edition Zen2


----------



## AudioNewbi3

joy boy said:


> Dual driver has better soundstage and clarity


 
 oh I see I see. Hmm, might just purchase one to try out hahaha


----------



## goldenSHK

clieos said:


> Ok, I do think I know that actual story behind VE vs. SeaHF but I have promised someone that I won't share it. I can however tell you that the story you know isn't the whole story (and certainly not the popular version people are referring over the Chinese forum) as it is a bit more complicated than that. Just want to mention it here so rumor won't spread further than it already has.


 
 Hey Clie, can you give a comparison between the Dual Matrix Driver buds and the Rose Mojito? They both sound like very similar types of buds from your descriptions, they are both, airy large soundstage neutral/light bass top tier buds. But any more info? I want to decide if I should buy the "budget Rose" (aka the Dual Driver) or the Rose itself.


----------



## vapman

goldenshk said:


> Hey Clie, can you give a comparison between the Dual Matrix Driver buds and the Rose Mojito? They both sound like very similar types of buds from your descriptions, they are both, airy large soundstage neutral/light bass top tier buds. But any more info? I want to decide if I should buy the "budget Rose" (aka the Dual Driver) or the Rose itself.




I've been curious about the dual driver's sound, I wouldn't call the mojito bass light unless the fit is bad though. Then again I always have a bass boost EQ on.


----------



## goldenSHK

vapman said:


> I've been curious about the dual driver's sound, I wouldn't call the mojito bass light unless the fit is bad though. Then again I always have a bass boost EQ on.


 
 At $29 it is the highest sub $30 earbud ranked next to a sea of $70-$150 buds, so I am definitely interested in picking up a set, I just need to know if it is bass light or not.


----------



## Joy Boy

audionewbi3 said:


> oh I see I see. Hmm, might just purchase one to try out hahaha



I suggest tou to try the black one(old batch). It's more refine than the blue. The blue one a little bit harsh and peaky while the black one is warm


----------



## ClieOS

goldenshk said:


> Hey Clie, can you give a comparison between the Dual Matrix Driver buds and the Rose Mojito? They both sound like very similar types of buds from your descriptions, they are both, airy large soundstage neutral/light bass top tier buds. But any more info? I want to decide if I should buy the "budget Rose" (aka the Dual Driver) or the Rose itself.


 
  
 On description, those two do seems to share a lot of similarity, but the dual driver is actually slightly warmish in comparison (but still in the context of being neutral). Dual driver soundstage is big for an earbuds, but Mojito soundstage is pretty much like a full size open back headphone - nothing even come close. Same can almost be said to is micro-detail as well. By all mean dual driver is a great earbud of its own right, but if neutral and analytical are what you are looking for, then Mojito is no doubt the king of the hill. If you can afford Mojito, just buy it - I'll go as far as to say it is one of the best buy of my recent time. Driving it out of Mojo, which has an excellent mid that compliment the Mojito, really puts a big smile on my face.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

joy boy said:


> I suggest tou to try the black one(old batch). It's more refine than the blue. The blue one a little bit harsh and peaky while the black one is warm


 
 Unfortunately, the Old Faareal with the "Faareal" logo at the plug has already been sold out. All Faareal now are new version.

 You can take a look at the pictures here between the black and white version.
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z0d.6639537.1997196601.4.YjdLIr&id=39799975846


----------



## goldenSHK

clieos said:


> On description, those two do seems to share a lot of similarity, but the dual driver is actually slightly warmish in comparison (but still in the context of being neutral). Dual driver soundstage is big for an earbuds, but Mojito soundstage is pretty much like a full size open back headphone - nothing even come close. Same can almost be said to is micro-detail as well. By all mean dual driver is a great earbud of its own right, but if neutral and analytical are what you are looking for, then Mojito is no doubt the king of the hill. If you can afford Mojito, just buy it - I'll go as far as to say it is one of the best buy of my recent time. Driving it out of Mojo, which has an excellent mid that compliment the Mojito, really puts a big smile on my face.


 
 Hmm thanks for this. Then going to eventually opt to get the mojito then. Just can't afford right now. Whoever got the Mojitos as a review sample (I forget if it was you Clie or the other guy in this thread), must be really lucky lol. Buying every earbud on the market is almost as expensive as buying a summit fi headphone almost haha.


----------



## ClieOS

Well, not me. I paid full price and have no regret.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

audionewbi3 said:


> Unfortunately, the Old Faareal with the "Faareal" logo at the plug has already been sold out. All Faareal now are new version.
> 
> You can take a look at the pictures here between the black and white version.
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z0d.6639537.1997196601.4.YjdLIr&id=39799975846


 
 Update, I gave up trying to purchase the Fareal haha.


----------



## goldenSHK

clieos said:


> Well, not me. I paid full price and have no regret.


 
 When they go on sale again on AliExpress I will try to pick one up. I think the lowest they went was 15% off on the mobile app IIRC.


----------



## golov17

they were $ 100 during the festive discounts


----------



## goldenSHK

golov17 said:


> they were $ 100 during the festive discounts


 
 Nooooo! I missed that. That seems like an incredible deal now, but that's after the fact that @ClieOS confirmed they were so good. Even if they were $100 right now, I wouldn't have known to buy them until I read Clie's review. I really hope they go on sale then.


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> they were $ 100 during the festive discounts




Where were Rose Mojito $100? I know they were $187 on Ali express if you used the app and also a $7 discount coupon.


----------



## Decommo

Is it possible to contact them and arrange a groupbuy so get $100 price again?


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> Where were Rose Mojito $100? I know they were $187 on Ali express if you used the app and also a $7 discount coupon.


 During Aliexpress anniversary


----------



## ClieOS

Are you sure you remember it correctly? That's your picture btw.
  
 Besides, the discount was from AE (which isn't selling it anymore) and not from Rose tech, so no point asking for group buy discount (which is actually against forum rules as well).


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> Are you sure you remember it correctly? That's your picture btw.
> 
> Besides, the discount was from AE (which isn't selling it anymore) and not from Rose tech, so no point asking for group buy discount (which is actually against forum rules as well).


OMG  Really! Sorry.. After work my brain bad..


----------



## vapman

goldenshk said:


> Hmm thanks for this. Then going to eventually opt to get the mojito then. Just can't afford right now. Whoever got the Mojitos as a review sample (I forget if it was you Clie or the other guy in this thread), must be really lucky lol. Buying every earbud on the market is almost as expensive as buying a summit fi headphone almost haha.


 

 Also paid full price and no regret. Was worth it. A little pissed about the poor paint job being scuffed on the red/blue but they sound killer and that's what matters.
  
 Earbuds are easy and affordable when I think about how I've spend $700 on a single pair of IEMs.


----------



## lexus91

So finally get to hear Cypherus golden reference earbuds for some period of time. I decided to write some of my impressions.

First of all IMO clearly the golden reference is not made as a mass production product mindset. (please correct me if i am wrong Herry Wijaya) As it is clearly seen that practicality and ergonomics is actually usable at the very best. The cable is heavy and stiff which makes fitting is horrendous. It is not something you can wear anywhere. For me the Cypherus golden reference earbuds is a piece of art. More like an experimental product to push an earbuds to its limit. I am not very good at reviewing but since it sounds so good i decided to write a fairly extensive review.

My first 30 seconds listening to it was just mind blowing. first what hits me is the lows, it was amazing. when Mr Rudiwidjaja Hartono told me it was "headphone" bass I didn't expected it to be this good. And the overall sound tonality and balance was just right.

At first I was planning to compare this earbuds with VE Zen V1. But listening to it for sometimes I decided that its not possible since IMO this is not even a fair comparison.

I am not saying the Zen is a bad earbuds, its an amazing earbuds. Its just the golden reference sounds way beyond anything i ever heard and expected from an earbud. its just for my taste zen sounded too warm, and imo the overall tonality and balance is just not right.

So then I decided to compare this buds against Dita The Truth, since IMO the Truth has the most natural sounding and balanced sound for me. And I came into a conclusion that the golden reference comes very close to dita's natural sound and tonality. everything sounds just right with some bump on the lower end which makes the golden reference (despite its reference name) a very exciting sounding earbuds. Compared to dita it is slightly warmer. The sound stage is very good and accurate.

The Low : It is not an exaggeration to call the low as "headphone" like, since its out of earbuds league. It hits deep and low. it has great impact and speed. The texture is very good. I feel that dita still has better texture and reach lower, but the golden reference impact is amazing. (I don't remember LCD 3's bass but i heard that the bass of the golden reference is LCD 3 alike)

The Mids : When it first come, it has full foam on it. But its a tad too dark for me so I changed it to donut foam. It made the overall sounds open up by fair amount and turns the mids to be so airy. Its not bad, but compared to dita it lacks the fullness. But i prefer it this way. Mids is placed slightly more forward compared to dita's. Very nice and smooth but not as refined as dita's. Still one of the very best if not the best amongst earbuds that I have ever hear.

The Highs: Loved it. smooth and detailed, sparkly with no sibilance. I'm not treble maniac so can't comment much about this aspects but they do sounds very very nice.

I would say that the golden reference has a very close tonality and balance to dita. While dita is more laidback and relaxing. the golden reference is more engaging and energetic, yet smooth sounding and not forceful at all. It has amazing musicality, everything comes out so effortless and makes listening to it is a very pleasant experience. Even when I;m trying to make a/b comparison i keep finding myself listening to the whole song instead of parts of song since how enjoyable this earbuds really is.

A very big thanks to Mr Herry Wijaya to allow me experiencing such a great sonic experience.

TLDR: Usable ergonomics at the very best. Not Practical BUT : Sounds amazing. Natural - warmish sounding, amazing tonal balance. Amazing Bass. Very smooth and refined as an earbuds. Amazing musicality.


----------



## gattari

Lexis how it is cost? Have you a link.


----------



## Saoshyant

I would love to hear that earbud.


----------



## golov17

gattari said:


> Lexis how it is cost? Have you a link.


not for sale, LE


----------



## gattari

golov17 said:


> gattari said:
> 
> 
> > Lexis how it is cost? Have you a link.
> ...



If not for sale this earbud remain a sort of legend, I didn't like the legends


----------



## golov17




----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


>


 
  
 wow they look amazing!!!
 where to buy?
 i don't have facebook so i miss the cool sales 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  


lexus91 said:


> TLDR: Usable ergonomics at the very best. Not Practical BUT : Sounds amazing. Natural - warmish sounding, amazing tonal balance. Amazing Bass. Very smooth and refined as an earbuds. Amazing musicality.


 
 First huge congrats getting to demo those earbuds. I am super jealous.
  
 Secondly if you took away "warmish" it would sound like how I describe the rose mojito?
  
 I want to A/B them so bad!


----------



## lexus91

gattari said:


> Lexis how it is cost? Have you a link.




Unfortunately yes no more unit is produced. But its at around 350ish $.



vapman said:


> wow they look amazing!!!
> where to buy?
> i don't have facebook so i miss the cool sales
> 
> ...




I hope i could try rose mojito and compare them too. I think mr Rudi has mojito. He also have one pair of this earbuds. I'll try to ask for his impressions or probably meet him and try to a/b mojito with the chyperus golden ref.


----------



## vapman

lexus91 said:


> Unfortunately yes no more unit is produced. But its at around 290ish $.
> I hope i could try rose mojito and compare them too. I think mr Rudi has mojito. He also have one pair of this earbuds. I'll try to ask for his impressions or probably meet him and try to a/b mojito with the chyperus golden ref.


 

 I hope you get to try the Rose Mojito. I sometimes think about sending mine to some other Head Fi members so they can try it out, since it's my understanding that Rose Mojito is also a limited edition earbud. But I hope I am wrong, because it is really exceptional.


----------



## golov17




----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


>


 
 I know you're not the one selling them, but....


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> I know you're not the one selling them, but....


 I wrote to him, wait for an answer


----------



## airomjosh

im kinda confused here, are the cypherus which Lexus gave some impressions and the earbuds which golov posted some links are the same?sorry i just came out from rehab, too slow to follow.


----------



## goldenSHK

Does anyone know what type of cable is used on the VE Zen 2.0? It looks different than any other cables on most earbuds so I Was just wondering what material it is etc. Any info would be nice.


----------



## golov17

golov17 said:


> I wrote to him, wait for an answer


 to Wong Kuan Wae waewae@ymail.com
wae33640@gmail.com


----------



## vapman

goldenshk said:


> Does anyone know what type of cable is used on the VE Zen 2.0? It looks different than any other cables on most earbuds so I Was just wondering what material it is etc. Any info would be nice.


 

 I thought VE made it cause of the pictures of it cut open so you can see how much copper is in the cable on their Ali pages.
  
  


golov17 said:


> to Wong Kuan Wae waewae@ymail.com
> wae33640@gmail.com


 





 I owe you a beer sometime man.
 Maybe if I ever come out to your part of Russia.


----------



## golov17

TPE256 4N OFC Zen2.0 cable & 
sober 3 year


----------



## goldenSHK

golov17 said:


> TPE256 4N OFC Zen2.0 cable &
> sober 3 year


 
 Thank you Golov!


----------



## Danneq

Haha! The earbuds in this thread are bceoming more and more rare. That golden reference earbud with only 2 pairs made and the transparent one that golov17 posted with 10 pairs in every batch. I thought that Blox had small batches but now they are beat by miles!

Still no one except Jant71 who has bought the low impedance Dark Horse earbuds from Easy earphone? Not the ones with Sennheiser housings but the ones with metal housings.

I'm very curious about those and the prices (around $45) are not too bad...


----------



## golov17




----------



## istlove

I have mx985 and pk1. But i want one more. Espacially Rose mojito attracts me. I can buy it here: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-New-Rose-Mojito-Flat-Head-Earphone-Double-Dynamic-HIFI-Monitor-Headphone-DIY-Headset-With-TF/1825606_32616371529.html
Seller discounts,price is 210$.
Is Rose mojito worth for the price?


----------



## Saoshyant

The Mojito is back in stock?  Hmm....


----------



## ClieOS

istlove said:


> I have mx985 and pk1. But i want one more. Espacially Rose mojito attracts me. I can buy it here: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-New-Rose-Mojito-Flat-Head-Earphone-Double-Dynamic-HIFI-Monitor-Headphone-DIY-Headset-With-TF/1825606_32616371529.html
> Seller discounts,price is 210$.
> Is Rose mojito worth for the price?


 
  
 Pretty good price for $210, consider the actual full price is $230 on Taobao. However the listed price on AE for almost $300 is a bit ridiculous.


----------



## istlove

Yes, but if head-fier tells seller, he will adjust the price 210$.


----------



## Saoshyant

I'd be quite tempted to pick up the Mojito, but I worry I'd find it too clinical sounding and not musical enough...  but then again, I really should look through this thread for impressions before I make any kind of decision.  Unless someone with a better memory can point out where to find some impressions so I don't have to dig so much


----------



## music4mhell

I will never buy mojito until the price is $150 max.


----------



## ClieOS

music4mhell said:


> I will never buy mojito until the price is $150 max.


 
  
 Likely it will run out before that happens.


----------



## Joy Boy

lexus91 said:


> So finally get to hear Cypherus golden reference earbuds for some period of time. I decided to write some of my impressions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




But seriously, it's very limited buds. Only 2 of them exist. It seems so unfair to compare them or add them on the list. We definitely can't have or try them


----------



## istlove

And i consider seahf 400ohm. 
How about seahf? Someone recommended this earbuds to me.


----------



## golov17

istlove said:


> And i consider seahf 400ohm.
> How about seahf? Someone recommended this earbuds to me.



Category 2: THE GREAT
N°14
First page this thread


----------



## music4mhell

istlove said:


> And i consider seahf 400ohm.
> How about seahf? Someone recommended this earbuds to me.


i will keep it near to zen and cygnus, but that's my opinion personally.


----------



## ngoshawk

vapman said:


> I hope you get to try the Rose Mojito. I sometimes think about sending mine to some other Head Fi members so they can try it out, since it's my understanding that Rose Mojito is also a limited edition earbud. But I hope I am wrong, because it is really exceptional.




I would kindly "borrow" your pair, and review them!


----------



## phiely

istlove said:


> I have mx985 and pk1. But i want one more. Espacially Rose mojito attracts me. I can buy it here: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-New-Rose-Mojito-Flat-Head-Earphone-Double-Dynamic-HIFI-Monitor-Headphone-DIY-Headset-With-TF/1825606_32616371529.html
> Seller discounts,price is 210$.
> Is Rose mojito worth for the price?




Love my Mojito but cannot get a comfortable fit due to their huge size in my small ears.

Any one know if the red earbud means Right and blue for Left ? Also, does it matter because the earbuds look and sound the same ?


----------



## vapman

phiely said:


> Love my Mojito but cannot get a comfortable fit due to their huge size in my small ears.
> 
> Any one know if the red earbud means Right and blue for Left ? Also, does it matter because the earbuds look and sound the same ?


 

 I don't know which is to be left or right either. I guess one day I'll play a tone on the left side only and then one on the right side only and figure out which is which?
  
 It took me a few days to get used to fitting them since they're so large but now I can get them seated properly first try.  They fit a bit different than usual but I'm pretty confident you'll get the hang of it.
  
 BTW i thought the foams that came with the Mojito were itchy so I put on some VE foams instead. Worked great and felt better.


----------



## CingKrab

phiely said:


> Love my Mojito but cannot get a comfortable fit due to their huge size in my small ears.
> 
> Any one know if the red earbud means Right and blue for Left ? Also, does it matter because the earbuds look and sound the same ?




I don't own the mojitos, but typically these things go like this:
Red (R for right)
bLue or bLack for left.

On another note, has anyone compared the the Seahf 320 vs the 400? I ordered the 400 ohm model and hoping I'm not gonna regret it...


----------



## Wyrdrune

cingkrab said:


> I don't own the mojitos, but typically these things go like this:
> Red (R for right)
> bLue or bLack for left




That has always annoyed me because, as every mariner knows, there's a little Red Port Left in the bottle.


----------



## ClieOS

phiely said:


> Love my Mojito but cannot get a comfortable fit due to their huge size in my small ears.
> 
> Any one know if the red earbud means Right and blue for Left ? Also, does it matter because the earbuds look and sound the same ?


 
  
 Red for right and blue for left is pretty much a given in the headphone world, I think. Though you can use it whichever way you want.
  
 The more importable bit is actually how the 2 pin connector is plugged into the earbud or else absolute phase might be in reverse (and might not be that noticeable if both are reversed at the same time, as human ain't very sensitive to phase). Just make sure the letter on the cable is always facing outward.


----------



## vapman

As good as the Mojito is, I think I may have to pass my set of Rose Mojito's along to another earbud friend. I'm ridiculously treble sensitive and it's a bit bright for me without EQing.
  
 I also didn't realize quite how much EQ was necessary to get them to be bassy, though. I didn't realize when testing I had a \ shaped EQ curve going...
  
 I'll post them in the classifieds if nobody here wants them in a day or two, but I wanted to let fellow earbud freaks get the first shot at it, given their rarity.


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> As good as the Mojito is, I think I may have to pass my set of Rose Mojito's along to another earbud friend. I'm ridiculously treble sensitive and it's a bit bright for me without EQing.
> 
> I also didn't realize quite how much EQ was necessary to get them to be bassy, though. I didn't realize when testing I had a \ shaped EQ curve going...
> 
> I'll post them in the classifieds if nobody here wants them in a day or two, but I wanted to let fellow earbud freaks get the first shot at it, given their rarity.


 
 Good news.
  
 So my decision was right not to buy the Mojito.  I feel there is a big comfort issue on Mojito too.
 For me Tomahawk is big for my ears


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> Good news.
> 
> So my decision was right not to buy the Mojito.  I feel there is a big comfort issue on Mojito too.
> For me Tomahawk is big for my ears


 
 Hmm, I thought Tomahawk was pretty comfortable, but that's the best I had to say about it...
  
 Of course we won't all agree here but I still maintain that the Mojito is a TOTL earbud. I would not offer it for sale if I was less treble sensitive.
  
 when I say I'm treble sensitive I mean I literally turn the treble knob all the way down on all my stereo,EQ,headphones, anything, and it's usually still too much. at this point I am EQing out so much of the higher end of the spectrum.
  
 I still love them (using them now) but I like to turn my earbuds LOUD so I can feel the bass. The crystal crear highs would get to me first. Then again you don't buy STAX to bump them loud (even though they can!)
  
 Anyway, if i don't get any PM's by tomorrow expressing interest in the mojitos, to the classifieds they go.


----------



## goldenSHK

vapman said:


> Hmm, I thought Tomahawk was pretty comfortable, but that's the best I had to say about it...
> 
> Of course we won't all agree here but I still maintain that the Mojito is a TOTL earbud. I would not offer it for sale if I was less treble sensitive.
> 
> ...


 
 I make it a concerted effort to review/give impressions of all my earbuds without any EQ so people at least know the baseline is the straight signal through the bud itself. The Mojitos sound pretty "Grado like" if the highs are insanely clear but sometimes harsh. So what do you use as your earbud of choice if you like to thump the bass?


----------



## Zani004

music4mhell said:


> Good news.
> 
> So my decision was right not to buy the Mojito.  I feel there is a big comfort issue on Mojito too.
> For me Tomahawk is big for my ears


 

 Agree, on all three points.


----------



## vapman

goldenshk said:


> I make it a concerted effort to review/give impressions of all my earbuds without any EQ so people at least know the baseline is the straight signal through the bud itself. The Mojitos sound pretty "Grado like" if the highs are insanely clear but sometimes harsh. So what do you use as your earbud of choice if you like to thump the bass?


 

 It was my mistake leaving EQ on. I forgot I hadn't bypassed it properly until after my first impressions.
  
 I did a lot of listening today but the signautre was too thin & bass light for me. that said, the detailing it provides is second to none, and fit acutally isn't uncomfortable at all. it just takes a bit to get used to fitting them right. This problem is greatly overxaggerated IMO.
  
 I always eq my bass up. Cygnus were my favorite, but now Zen 2 is my favorite as an all around and for bass bump.
  
 The Mojito really can be bass monsters if you give them plenty of amp power and EQ, but you're EQing pretty heavily at that point, and I understand some people are anti-EQ.
  
 Reading the above posts I think I made a lot of people think they were glad they didn't get the Mojito. They shouldn't be, it's immensely rewarding and is the closest thing I've ever heard to the STAX Eletrostatic sound in an earbud.


----------



## lexus91

vapman said:


> It was my mistake leaving EQ on. I forgot I hadn't bypassed it properly until after my first impressions.
> 
> I did a lot of listening today but the signautre was too thin & bass light for me. that said, the detailing it provides is second to none, and fit acutally isn't uncomfortable at all. it just takes a bit to get used to fitting them right. This problem is greatly overxaggerated IMO.
> 
> ...


 
 I haven't tried the mojito. but from memories Stax sounds clean and crystal clear while maintaining smooth sparkly highs. (never had any sibilance trouble with stax while struggling with fostex's even Ostry kc08 at some recordings). the Stax comparison really makes me curious of how the mojito sounds like.


----------



## Raketen

vapman said:


> They shouldn't be, it's immensely rewarding and is the closest thing I've ever heard to the STAX Eletrostatic sound in an earbud.


 

 Have you used those Stax head/earphone things? The ones that look like alien death probes for ears?


----------



## music4mhell

I never used EQ till now and also will never use


----------



## vapman

lexus91 said:


> I haven't tried the mojito. but from memories Stax sounds clean and crystal clear while maintaining smooth sparkly highs. (never had any sibilance trouble with stax while struggling with fostex's even Ostry kc08 at some recordings). the Stax comparison really makes me curious of how the mojito sounds like.


 

 100% exactly how I describe the Mojito even though I've decided to sell it.
 The bass light, sparkly high signature is just not for me .
 If it's your thing, you owe it to yourself to give these a listen.
  
  


raketen said:


> Have you used those Stax head/earphone things? The ones that look like alien death probes for ears?


 

 Yes I have! But I think they were kind of weird and not comparable to the rest of the stax line. They were like Stax's take on earbuds, as opposed to the Stax Earspeaker sound in earbud form, if you know what I mean.
  
 seriously if I was less of a raving basshead I would keep these. Or maybe I'll just keep them and boost the bass REALLY high every time I want to use them.


----------



## goldenSHK

vapman said:


> It was my mistake leaving EQ on. I forgot I hadn't bypassed it properly until after my first impressions.
> 
> I did a lot of listening today but the signautre was too thin & bass light for me. that said, the detailing it provides is second to none, and fit acutally isn't uncomfortable at all. it just takes a bit to get used to fitting them right. This problem is greatly overxaggerated IMO.
> 
> ...


 
 Haha you're taste in earbuds is exactly like mine, I use the Zen 2 as my daily driver for all music because I like it's warm and lush sound, Cygnus is a second, close favorite of mine. 

 The more I read about Mojito impressions the more I think they are an earbud version of the high end Grados, extremely revealing, extremely crystal clear but tight and light bass.


----------



## Lionlian

By the list is mean that Original Zen and Asura better than newer one?


----------



## Joy Boy

lionlian said:


> By the list is mean that Original Zen and Asura better than newer one?



It's really up to your taste. Some prefer zen 1.0 than 2.0. Some other prefer the opposite.
For me, i have both of them and till now still confuse which one is better. But i'm sure that they're my best bud from all of my collection


----------



## vapman

goldenshk said:


> The more I read about Mojito impressions the more I think they are an earbud version of the high end Grados, extremely revealing, extremely crystal clear but tight and light bass.


 
 Spot on description of the sound IMO. Also like Grados, they aren't bassy unless you really EQ the bass in, then they can slam.
  
 Slightly more high end Gradoish than Ety-ish i think
  
 edit: Welcome @Saoshyant to club Mojito


----------



## Saoshyant

I'm so glad to read it has a grado-like sound! I already know I can really enjoy that, so I'm more excited about the Mojito than ever


----------



## Townyj

Ok, i have been lurking the past few weeks. Sooooo thanks guys, i now have Tomahawk Earbud, Tomahawk IEM, Monk+ x 2. Also purchased a few IEM's, Sendiy M2, Xiaomi Piston 3 and Music Maker TW1. All in the past 3 weeks... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Trying hard not to purchase the Mr Z Ting or Shozy Cygnus lol... they dont seem to be massive upgrades from reading about them.


----------



## Expansion

I want to try something else. What is recommended now for 10/20$?
  
 I did not like Mrice E100, metallic, cold sound, although dynamic.
 Got the chance to listen to 2 pairs and both sounded the same.


----------



## golov17

too bright for my ears, but for who likes a spectacular sound like Tingo TG38 - norm


----------



## Expansion

expansion said:


> I want to try something else. What is recommended now for 10/20$?
> 
> I did not like Mrice E100, metallic, cold sound, although dynamic.
> Got the chance to listen to 2 pairs and both sounded the same.


 
 golov17, what would you suggest?


----------



## golov17

Monk Plus


----------



## ngoshawk

expansion said:


> I want to try something else. What is recommended now for 10/20$?
> 
> I did not like Mrice E100, metallic, cold sound, although dynamic.
> Got the chance to listen to 2 pairs and both sounded the same.




Fiio EM3, for $10. Better fit than Monk, SLIGHTLY better sound IMO. In my review I BARELY chose the Fiio over the Monks. Both are quite good. 

That said, I have several pairs of Monk + coming my way...and for $20, you could get the Fiio EM3, and the Monk + with the expansion pack.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> too bright for my ears, but for who likes a spectacular sound like Tingo TG38 - norm


 
  
 Crap, I have a pair on the way.  Oh well, I will gift them to someone.
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> Crap, I have a pair on the way.  Oh well, I will gift them to someone.
> 
> ..


good cable, like donor


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> good cable, like donor


 
  
 Now I need to learn how to transplant.
  
 --


----------



## Saoshyant

BloodyPenguin Would you be out a bt of money if you dislike them? I'm utterly ignorant of their cost.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

saoshyant said:


> @BloodyPenguin Would you be out a bt of money if you dislike them? I'm utterly ignorant of their cost.


 
  
 I bought them from Taobao through MisterTao.com.  The earbuds themselves are about $9 USD, but after fees and shipping, I spent around $14ish USD on it.  So not an expensive loss if I do not like them.  Plus I give out LOTS of earbuds as gifts to friends and family, so it would not be a total loss if don't enjoy their sound.
  
  
  
 EDIT:  I ended up ordering around $60 of random earbuds with that same order.  All budget priced and most have not been talked about anywhere on this thread.  I will post up if any of them end up being any good.

 I think it is fun to try out new buds, you never know what you might find.  
 ..


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Hi everyone, think I can get some help here about the MrZ Tomahawk I just receive....
  
 Feel dumb, is there a special way to wear them so it will not fall when I move my head?
  
 Kind of REALLY big...and it make a long time I don,t use earbud...I'm not even able to put the tips on it...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

nymphonomaniac said:


> Hi everyone, think I can get some help here about the MrZ Tomahawk I just receive....
> 
> Feel dumb, is there a special way to wear them so it will not fall when I move my head?
> 
> Kind of REALLY big...and it make a long time I don,t use earbud...I'm not even able to put the tips on it...


 
  
 For me, I can not get ANY earbud to stay in my ear without the Foam Covers.
  
 The covers are a PAIN to put on the first couple of times until you get used to doing it.  I just say stay relaxed, take your time and get those covers on there.


 EDIT.  I will try and make a YouTube video how to put those little buggers on sometime soon.  I search and there is only really a couple (crappy) videos I could find.
  
 ..


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Thanks for the reply Bloodypenguin...
  
 I should not cut my nails yesterday!
 Lol...I wasn't able to put the microsd card in my new Xduoo X3 too...what the heck, will never cut my nails again!
  
 Hum, good idea for the video because I try right now to put this strange donuts and must admit I swear alot.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So, will do some yoga or meditation and try to reach an higher state of concentration
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Cheers!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

*@Nymphonomaniac*, I'll see what I can do for ya.  I've done other videos of how to install headphone pads for other people in the past and it has seemed to help.
  
 Those Donuts Foam Covers are darn near impossible the first time I tried.  Now I am getting pretty decent about installing them.  Time and practice makes almost anything easier.

 ..


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

So you got your degree in donuts professional installation eh? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I say !#%$ you to the donuts for now and was able to pose the normal foam!
  
 WOW. Sound way better now. What an airy soundstage! The cello sonata I listen fly around me. AND I can move my head like a normal human being (still not very sealed tough) Hum, I think a love story will begin with this earbuds
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 CHEERS!!


----------



## golov17

I can put in the night any foams at all during to the touch, if I'm too lazy to get up and turn on the light, lol


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> I can put in the night any foams at all during to the touch, if I'm too lazy to get up and turn on the light, lol


 
  
 As *golov17,* *King of the Earbuds*, I don't doubt this!!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 --


----------



## BloodyPenguin

nymphonomaniac said:


> So you got your degree in donuts professional installation eh?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Congrats!  Yeah, Foam Covers will make the sound a HUGE difference for some.

 With most earbuds, you will never really get a perfect seal, but that is part of their airy design.
  
  
  
*EDIT.  Just noticed this is my 2,000th post!  What do I win?*
  
 ..


----------



## Saoshyant

For me, the specific earbud can change how difficult the foam is to apply. The DK-Jin was quite a bit easier than the Monk, but hoping I'm luckier when the Monk+ & Mojito arrive.


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> Now I need to learn how to transplant.
> 
> --


 Hmm, I picked up the thickest foams.. Much better


----------



## birdman

Can someone recommend a good replacement 3.5mm jack? For quick shipping to US, so AE and taobao are out. I see some on Amazon, not sure how good they are. I've already damaged the jack on my Tomahawk, the cord snagged on something and pulled it out of my phone. The jack is now loose in its housing and the connection is bad. Too bad, I was enjoying them. I'm not sure if it got stressed really bad or if the build quality is mediocre. I've had this happen before with lots of buds and headphones and never damaged a jack like this before. 
  
 I'm enjoying the earbud revival. Of the ones I've bought so far, Tomahawk>Baldoor E100>Fiio EM3 & Monk>Edifier P180. Waiting on Monk+. I've got small ear canals, so finding a good fit on the larger ones is a project. Most of these are larger, Monk and EM3 are okay. I'm guessing the Cygnus will be the best fit+SQ for me in the <$100 price range, but I've spent enough for now. Hah.
  
 The reviews on Baldoor/Mrice E100 are all over the place, I got a good one and am very happy with it, except for trying to get the right bud into my small right earhole. I rate it close to the Tomahawk. The Edifier P180: ClieOS nailed it with 'unremarkable'.  Okay highs, okay mids, okay lows, okay everything. Nothing about it is bad. Nothing about it is good. Meh. Monks are great, a little warm for my taste, with some resonance in certain frequencies, great for $5. The Monk+ will probably suit me a lot better.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

!
  

  





Got the secret ninja twist now. (don't know how to explain it in english!)
 Not sure I can do it at night tough...
  
 Congrats for your 2000 posts!! You should all print them and make some kind of headfi super hero cap with it
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Anyway, very impressive dude!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

nymphonomaniac said:


> Got the secret ninja twist now. (don't know how to explain it in english!)
> Not sure I can do it at night tough...
> 
> Congrats for your 2000 posts!! You should all print them and make some kind of headfi super hero cap with it
> ...


 
  
 Way to go with the foam covers!  Once you get the feel of it, you are golden.  
  
  
  
 Took me a while to get to 2000, as I don't post too much, but is crazy to see that I've hit 2,000.  I've looked back to when I first joined, I was so ignorant.  Haa. 

 --


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> For me, the specific earbud can change how difficult the foam is to apply. The DK-Jin was quite a bit easier than the Monk, but hoping I'm luckier when the Monk+ & Mojito arrive.


 

 Ooh, let me know if you feel like trading away the DK-Jin, that's one I haven't tried yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
@mochill and anyone else who has the Zen 2.0 Black Edition. I'm thinking of buying it because I love the Zen 2.0 so much. Is there a difference in sound or is it all in the cable?
  
 Seriously I need to hear SeaHf 400ohm because I don't know how much better it gets than the Zen 2.0, at least personally. I'd have to hear the Zen 1.0 at some point I guess. Everything I loved about the Cygnus is even better on the Zen 2.0 (excpet that the Zen must be amped whereas the Cygnus is good with anything?)


----------



## Saoshyant

@vapman I will, but I suspect I'll be keeping this one.  It's a really fun sound, although top end earbuds will certainly outperform.


----------



## vapman

Well out of everyone here who I know has a DK Jin, only one traded it away cause he didn't like the sound signature as much as some other buds, and nobody else is willing to give theirs up. So if you still like it when you hear the Mojito, I think that means I should buy myself a set


----------



## ClieOS

birdman said:


> Can someone recommend a good replacement 3.5mm jack? For quick shipping to US, so AE and taobao are out. I see some on Amazon, not sure how good they are. I've already damaged the jack on my Tomahawk, the cord snagged on something and pulled it out of my phone. The jack is now loose in its housing and the connection is bad. Too bad, I was enjoying them. I'm not sure if it got stressed really bad or if the build quality is mediocre. I've had this happen before with lots of buds and headphones and never damaged a jack like this before.


 
  
 Neutrik / Rean - not expensive and good build quality, and available in many places. Don't buy electrical supply on Amazon, get them from digikey, Mouser, or Newark.


----------



## Decommo

Hi. I just received VE Monk+ with accessories. Which foam tips do you guys prefer? I also have original VE Monk and used full foams so far. This time, it comes with full foam, donut foam, white plastic ring and black ear hook.


----------



## Decommo

I am still burning in but I have to agree..... VE Monk Plus is the best bang for the buck~~~ Lifted by Birdy sounded Awesome.


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> Well out of everyone here who I know has a DK Jin, only one traded it away cause he didn't like the sound signature as much as some other buds, and nobody else is willing to give theirs up. So if you still like it when you hear the Mojito, I think that means I should buy myself a set


 


 DK-Jin is really nice if you don't mind a narrow soundstage. I love a really open and spacious sound, one of the main reasons I prefer earbuds to IEMs. DK-Jin has got decent depth in the soundstage, but not enough sense of openness for my tastes. But yeah, they are certainly fun sounding with a very forward sound.


----------



## Trzystatrzy

Hi. Can I buy original Yuin PK3 drivers?


----------



## ClieOS

trzystatrzy said:


> Hi. Can I buy original Yuin PK3 drivers?


 
  
 You can buy the real PK3. Don't bother with those 'DIY' Yuin driver as they are most certainly fake.


----------



## Trzystatrzy

I have PK3, but I destroy driver when try to recable it ;(


----------



## rggz

trzystatrzy said:


> I have PK3, but I destroy driver when try to recable it ;(


 

 You can order for $27 on massdrop, but I think you need wait a short time for get them after paid. Also you can find better earbuds for $30~40 range IMHO.


----------



## Trzystatrzy

What about Edifier H186P? Any comparison with PK3 or VE Monk / Monk+? Or maybe Earpods?


----------



## mochill

The black edition is totally worth the upgrade imho


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Ordered so many new earbuds....   None have arrived yet...    
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 Patience is a virtue...


----------



## leobigfield

Received my tomahawks yesterday. While i really liked the sound quality (dat bass, reaches really lower than the monk and is a lot better quality wise), i really miss the Monk's openness, pace and balance. Any thoughts on a mid-priced alternative? Or should i save some months more and go to the Zen?
  
 Also i have some driver flex in my left ear when adjusting it but no channel imbalance. What do you think guys?


----------



## rggz

leobigfield said:


> Received my tomahawks yesterday. While i really liked the sound quality (dat bass, reaches really lower than the monk and is a lot better quality wise), i really miss the Monk's openness, pace and balance. Any thoughts on a mid-priced alternative? Or should i save some months more and go to the Zen?
> 
> Also i have some driver flex in my left ear when adjusting it but no channel imbalance. What do you think guys?


 

 I didn't liked the Tomahawk's on my first day, mids very forward, hit-hat and cymbals muddy, poor extension on treble... But I noted the problem was the fit, my ears are very small and those buds are bigger than normal so I just can't fit perfectly like my others earbuds. After tried fit like a ciem with cable like that I can enjoy them now, isn't my favorite but I can see why people like them now...


----------



## leobigfield

rggz said:


> I didn't liked the Tomahawk's on my first day, mids very forward, hit-hat and cymbals muddy, poor extension on treble... But I noted the problem was the fit, my ears are very small and those buds are bigger than normal so I just can't fit perfectly like my others earbuds. After tried fit like a ciem with cable like that I can enjoy them now, isn't my favorite but I can see why people like them now...


 
  
 I'll se if i can try it but my fear is that nasty driver flex in the left ear every time i push it against my ear


----------



## BloodyPenguin

leobigfield said:


> I'll se if i can try it but my fear is that nasty driver flex in the left ear every time i push it against my ear


 
  
 I've never experienced driver flex in an earbud before.  I would suggest asking for a replacement of the Tomahawk right away.  
  
 Plus, my Tomahawks have a decent amount of soundstage, maybe the driver issue is causing them to not be a wide.  
  
  
 ..


----------



## springbay

leobigfield said:


> Received my tomahawks yesterday. While i really liked the sound quality (dat bass, reaches really lower than the monk and is a lot better quality wise), i really miss the Monk's openness, pace and balance. Any thoughts on a mid-priced alternative? Or should i save some months more and go to the Zen?
> 
> Also i have some driver flex in my left ear when adjusting it but no channel imbalance. What do you think guys?


 
  
 I actually don't like my Tomahawks either. I've tried but given up on them. Perhaps I got a faulty unit...
 The 3.5mm connector was slightly bent out of the box. No trouble using them but the QC seems a bit of.
  
 I'm coming from the Monks and was jumping on the Tomahawk hype for an upgrade, but the shape of the buds is not for me. Feels like I have to insert the Tomahawks like IEMs to my ears to make them stay put. And when I insert them they make a cranking sound from the housing. Using two layers of donuts I can get a somewhat decent fit, but the sound is too unnatural for my liking. Perhaps fun, but not accurate, and in no way a Monk upgrade for me.
 Since the Tomahawks have received so much raise from others, I guess they just don't fit my ears very well. Monk size is my size.
  
 On the other hand, I'm starting to absolutely adore my Tings. They've become my daily buds. The size of the buds are similar to the Tomahawks. But while the build quality of the Tomahawks leaves a lot to be desired, the Tings are built like a tank, and the sound is amazing, so detailed and airy. I also use the Tings with two layers of donuts, but they somehow fit much better than the Tomahawks.


----------



## leobigfield

bloodypenguin said:


> I've never experienced driver flex in an earbud before.  I would suggest asking for a replacement of the Tomahawk right away.
> 
> Plus, my Tomahawks have a decent amount of soundstage, maybe the driver issue is causing them to not be a wide.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Right now even my Tennmak Pro (received at the same day) seems to have a wider soundstage.


----------



## leobigfield

springbay said:


> I actually don't like my Tomahawks either. I've tried but given up on them. Perhaps I got a faulty unit...
> The 3.5mm connector was slightly bent out of the box. No trouble using them but the QC seems a bit of.
> 
> I'm coming from the Monks and was jumping on the Tomahawk hype for an upgrade, but the shape of the buds is not for me. Feels like I have to insert the Tomahawks like IEMs to my ears to make them stay put. And when I insert them they make a cranking sound from the housing. Using two layers of donuts I can get a somewhat decent fit, but the sound is too unnatural for my liking. Perhaps fun, but not accurate, and in no way a Monk upgrade for me.
> ...


 
  
 Nice! But What Ting are you talking about? The red one or the green one?


----------



## vapman

@springbay Don't worry, I had pretty much the same impression of the Tomahawk, I sold them fairly quickly. Plenty of people love them, though.
  
 The unnatural sparkle drove me nuts.


----------



## springbay

leobigfield said:


> Nice! But What Ting are you talking about? The red one or the green one?


 

 Oh sorry, the red ones that are also available in silver (grey).


----------



## satansmutt

Add me to the list of people that don't like the Tomahawk, bright splashy treble with an unnatural sound. They remind me of the KZ ED9 iems that were all the rage on here a few months back. After all the recommendations I was disappointed with them and thought it was just me, just goes to show how we are all different


----------



## rggz

About Ting... I've been reading this blog, and you can get some discount on Ting's getting them for only *$55*, if my translate don't trolling me you just need type "metal" on message of your order (link of product) and wait the seller ajust the price.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

satansmutt said:


> Add me to the list of people that don't like the Tomahawk, bright splashy treble with an unnatural sound. They remind me of the KZ ED9 iems that were all the rage on here a few months back. After all the recommendations I was disappointed with them and thought it was just me, just goes to show how we are all different


 
  
 It is so true about people hearing things different.  The Tomahawk is my favorite earbud right now.  Yet a while back people were praising the TinGo TG-38S and I could not sell my pair fast enough.
  
 It does go to show that we can all hear the same thing in unique ways.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Reading this while listening to the the Tomahawk right now. Make me perplexed.
  
 I prefer more the fullness of the sound they deliver with my Ibasso Dx90 than my Xduoo X3 with high gain, look like they need to be kick in they ass to project their soundstage properly.
 I don't even try electronic music with them, as i'm afraid it will sound bad, but with chamber orchestra (baroque composer right now) it sound delicious, lute, violin and cello dance really well hands in hands together! Really like their foward mids, especially for female signers.
  
 For comfort....that's another story.
 It's like if I try to put a watermelon in my earhole and make it stay there against the gravity laws.
  
*What DAP you use with it????????????????*


----------



## music4mhell

I also don't like the tomahawk.
 1st it's too big for my ears, so i feel very uncomfortable. I love the Red ting.
  
 I used Tomahawks only 2/3 times may be


----------



## ngoshawk

Alternative to the Edifier H/P185, please enjoy my review. Decent sound, affordable price, good build quality. Sound on the fuller side, a good alternative to stock buds.
  
 Thank you!
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/edifier-p275-noise-isolating-in-ear-monitor-earphones-black/reviews/15856


----------



## music4mhell

ngoshawk said:


> Alternative to the Edifier H/P185, please enjoy my review. Decent sound, affordable price, good build quality. Sound on the fuller side, a good alternative to stock buds.
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/edifier-p275-noise-isolating-in-ear-monitor-earphones-black/reviews/15856


 
 That is not Earbud sir and this thread is only about Earbud


----------



## leobigfield

music4mhell said:


> I also don't like the tomahawk.
> 1st it's too big for my ears, so i feel very uncomfortable. I love the Red ting.
> 
> I used Tomahawks only 2/3 times may be


 
  
 It seems almost like a rule that those who don't like the Tomahawk love the Ting... While i don't dislike them, they failed to impress me the way i would expect from something that should be a "clearly" upgrade to the monks. If the vocals were slight less upfront and in-your-face maybe i would like them more. But now i'm really interested in the Tings, and that's bad... to my wallet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Something i really liked in the Tomahawks vs the Monks was the bass. How the tomahawk bass compare to the Ting? And in general?


----------



## Decommo

Is there anyone prefer Ting to Cygnus? If so, could you kindly share why? Thank you.


----------



## vapman

decommo said:


> Is there anyone prefer Ting to Cygnus? If so, could you kindly share why? Thank you.


 

 I really want to hear the Ting to compare it against the Tomahawk. The Cygnus was my favorite until I heard the Zen 2.0.
  
 SeaHf 400ohm and Ting are on highest on my priority list of buds to hear.


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> decommo said:
> 
> 
> > Is there anyone prefer Ting to Cygnus? If so, could you kindly share why? Thank you.
> ...


 
 For me 
  
 SEAHF 400 ~ ZEN 2 > Ting > Cygnus.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

I think from what I have read on Teiba, a new 400ohms is in the making......I think.....


----------



## Danneq

leobigfield said:


> It seems almost like a rule that those who don't like the Tomahawk love the Ting... While i don't dislike them, they failed to impress me the way i would expect from something that should be a "clearly" upgrade to the monks. If the vocals were slight less upfront and in-your-face maybe i would like them more. But now i'm really interested in the Tings, and that's bad... to my wallet
> 
> Something i really liked in the Tomahawks vs the Monks was the bass. How the tomahawk bass compare to the Ting? And in general?




I like 'em both. To me, while Tomahawk is right up at the stage headbanging and stagediving, Ting stays further back in the audience and gives a more analytical presentation. As go to earbuds I pick Tomahawk and for more analytical listening I prefer Ting.

I have sometimes thought that there is some sort of coloring to the sound of both Tomahawk and Ting, so I can somewhat understand the comments of "unnatural highs". A little bit like the "chorus" effect on guitar pedals. Still, I prefer that to a more raw sound. 

No matter how much I like Tomahawk, they are not even in my top 5. Definitely in my top 10 if I decide to expand my top 5...


----------



## music4mhell

Just received 3 Monk+ with Addons & the green Ting


----------



## Sylmar

bloodypenguin said:


> It is so true about people hearing things different.  The Tomahawk is my favorite earbud right now.  Yet a while back people were praising the TinGo TG-38S and I could not sell my pair fast enough.
> 
> It does go to show that we can all hear the same thing in unique ways.


 
 True. I love the Tomahawk for its' clarity and detail. If I want to enjoy those aspects of my music I grab them. 
 I am interested in the Cygnus though.


----------



## ngoshawk

music4mhell said:


> Just received 3 Monk+ with Addons & the green Ting




Congrats! Mine are still enroute.


----------



## Decommo

music4mhell said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > decommo said:
> ...




Is there noticeable difference among Seahf LD2.0 150/320/400ohm in terms of sound? I see that seller at aliexpress offer all 3 options..


----------



## goldenSHK

Hey guys, I updated my personal list of earbuds similar to ClieOS's rankings in the original thread I made here

 http://www.head-fi.org/t/727309/high-end-earbuds-ve-blox-shozy-etc-and-earbud-gear-discussion-impressions-thread
  
 Hopefully this can be of help to some people that want another list to compare to ClieOS's and want a slightly more in depth look at each of these buds that comments on sound signature etc. Feel free to ask in that thread for more info if you have questions. I have a lot more earbuds coming in the mail so the list is small right now but it will get bigger. In general, I agree with a lot of ClieOS's thoughts, I guess my ears hear similarly.


----------



## Tympan

goldenshk said:


> Hey guys, I updated my personal list of earbuds similar to ClieOS's rankings in the original thread I made here
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/727309/high-end-earbuds-ve-blox-shozy-etc-and-earbud-gear-discussion-impressions-thread
> 
> Hopefully this can be of help to some people that want another list to compare to ClieOS's and want a slightly more in depth look at each of these buds that comments on sound signature etc. Feel free to ask in that thread for more info if you have questions. I have a lot more earbuds coming in the mail so the list is small right now but it will get bigger. In general, I agree with a lot of ClieOS's thoughts, I guess my ears hear similarly.


 
  
 Oh very nice! Thx!


----------



## music4mhell

decommo said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > vapman said:
> ...


 
 I have 150 n 400 versions.
 150 is no weher near to 400 version.


----------



## Decommo

music4mhell said:


> decommo said:
> 
> 
> > music4mhell said:
> ...




I see.. That is why 150ohm is a lot cheaper. I guess that 400 > 320 > 150ohm sequence in terms of SQ.. Thank you for sharing impression.


----------



## Townyj

I have been in contact with Penon Audio. Requested if they could get the Music Maker Ting Red and Silver versions. They have replied and said it will be listed fairly soon for $69USD. I have had a fabulous experience ordering from them in the past. Quick delivery and awesome response time. I have been wanting to bundle the Ting and Cygnus as one purchase  looks like it will happen soon. Woohoo


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

I'm curious about the sound difference between the *Mrz Ting* and the *Tomahawk*, any of you guy got both??
 Will like to know the soundsignature of the Ting and have a comparaison if possible.
  
 Othe earbud I got is the *VJJB C1s* and they suck and need big amping (32ohm) to got the best they can do. They most be inserted like IEM to feel a litlle airy and musical.


----------



## lexus91

The smaller brother of Cy Ax Golden Reference, the Camp Fred. "mass produced" (20 units for now, but i heard they are plan to make more in the future). It has similar tuning to the Golden Reference. amazing sound  balance. Still tops most TOTL earbuds (sounds unlike any other buds imo). good bass impact and texture. mids is well presented with hints of warmness. highs extended very well with no harshness (foam applied). I'd say compared to the gold ref its a tad brighter. the golden reference has fuller sound and scale better when given high power source. still for around $ 100 the Camp Fred is very good and will become my daily driver.
  
 If any of you are interested, I could inform and help you guys to order it if they decided to produce the third batch. also available in balance mode.


----------



## rggz

nymphonomaniac said:


> I'm curious about the sound difference between the *Mrz Ting* and the *Tomahawk*, any of you guy got both??
> Will like to know the soundsignature of the Ting and have a comparaison if possible.
> 
> Othe earbud I got is the *VJJB C1s* and they suck and need big amping (32ohm) to got the best they can do. They most be inserted like IEM to feel a litlle airy and musical.


 

 If I'm not mistaken @BloodyPenguin make a review about both models just check his profile, also ClieOS post some thoughts about them on first page.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

nymphonomaniac said:


> I'm curious about the sound difference between the *Mrz Ting* and the *Tomahawk*, any of you guy got both??
> Will like to know the soundsignature of the Ting and have a comparaison if possible.


 
  
  


rggz said:


> If I'm not mistaken @BloodyPenguin make a review about both models just check his profile, also ClieOS post some thoughts about them on first page.


 
  
 Oh, yes.  I meant to respond to this but I forgot.
  
 The Tomahawk has some big fans and some big critics on the forums for its unique sound signature.  I think they are SUPER fun and they are one of my favorite earbuds for their crisp, tight playback.  Bass is very good and controled, though some owners say that the Tomahawk has a little artificial flavor.  I can understand this statement, it is most likely the same reason I think they are so fun.
  
 For a more neutral and natural sound, the Ting is the way to go.  It can handle anything you throw at it with ease and detail.
  
 ...


----------



## music4mhell

nymphonomaniac said:


> I'm curious about the sound difference between the *Mrz Ting* and the *Tomahawk*, any of you guy got both??
> Will like to know the soundsignature of the Ting and have a comparaison if possible.
> 
> Othe earbud I got is the *VJJB C1s* and they suck and need big amping (32ohm) to got the best they can do. They most be inserted like IEM to feel a litlle airy and musical.


ting is more neutral and musical than tomahawk


----------



## CingKrab

decommo said:


> I see.. That is why 150ohm is a lot cheaper. I guess that 400 > 320 > 150ohm sequence in terms of SQ.. Thank you for sharing impression.


 
  
 I don't think anyone has had a head-to-head comparison of the 320 ohm vs the 400 ohm version.  It may not be that cut and dried.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

cingkrab said:


> I don't think anyone has had a head-to-head comparison of the 320 ohm vs the 400 ohm version.  It may not be that cut and dried.


 
 According to some the 400Ohm is quite a lot "thicker sounding" compared to the 320Ohm


----------



## vapman

Please don't make me buy both to compare them. If I do someone has to promise to buy the 300 ohm version from me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 If I don't like the 420ohm then i will sell that too probably... but dang it, I want to HEAR them!


----------



## CingKrab

vapman said:


> Please don't make me buy both to compare them. If I do someone has to promise to buy the 300 ohm version from me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey, I've got something that might push you over the edge on this purchase:
  
 http://blog.livedoor.jp/headphone_metal/archives/52291418.html
  
 I think that code works for the 320 ohm version as well.  Look at the previous postings.


----------



## vapman

cingkrab said:


> Hey, I've got something that might push you over the edge on this purchase:
> 
> http://blog.livedoor.jp/headphone_metal/archives/52291418.html
> 
> I think that code works for the 320 ohm version as well.  Look at the previous postings.




Lmao, I love that he tested with Hatesphere. Thanks a bunch for the link! I don't feel like translating it though... so you guys can use Google translate


----------



## Saoshyant

Well @vapman I'm finally getting to sit down and listen to your Mojito, and I must admit it's a very impressive earbud.  I'll have to sit down and see what I think vs the MX985, but I suspect with the detachable cable giving options like a mic or balanced, it very well might win me over.  I'm really impressed with how much it seems to bring piano and guitar to life.


----------



## jant71

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-Qian25-Bass-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud-Headphones-Headset-Dynamic-Flat-Head-Plug-Earbud-Earphone-HIFI/32658261667.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.261.hAsNge
 Anybody had these?? Any good for $6?


----------



## Ymer

Where can I buy the Mojitos?

Thanks!


----------



## ngoshawk

ymer said:


> Where can I buy the Mojitos?
> 
> Thanks!




http://s.aliexpress.com/aMbauYrq


----------



## tamburlane

I have the  "  qian 39 High Quality Headphones Earbud  " which is a more treble orientated bud in the same price range. For the price, I found it to represent excellent value for money, possessing a high level of detail retrieval  and a good soundstage. On the other hand they lacked bass; but this was acknowledged in the seller's product description - so that was fine.


----------



## Saoshyant

While it's by no means optimal, I really do appreciate that the Rose Mojito is enjoyable from a simple Clip+. I'll probably be typically running it from an xDuoo X3 or Mojo, but just for simple portability the fact that the Clip can do just fine makes me happy. Also, I should see how the Mojito likes the Kogan.


----------



## Decommo

tamburlane said:


> I have the  "  qian 39 High Quality Headphones Earbud  " which is a more treble orientated bud in the same price range. For the price, I found it to represent excellent value for money, possessing a high level of detail retrieval  and a good soundstage. On the other hand they lacked bass; but this was acknowledged in the seller's product description - so that was fine.


 
  
 It is the ideal sound signature for me (high detail, clear sound). I guess that Qian 25 is bass oriented and Qian 39 is treble oriented. Have I understood correctly?


----------



## Raketen

Any good places for the Mojito other than aliexpress? They won't sell to my state


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> While it's by no means optimal, I really do appreciate that the Rose Mojito is enjoyable from a simple Clip+. I'll probably be typically running it from an xDuoo X3 or Mojo, but just for simple portability the fact that the Clip can do just fine makes me happy. Also, I should see how the Mojito likes the Kogan.


 

 It's quite low resistance, 16 ohms or something? i had no issues driving it with my Xduoo. Glad you're enjoying it though.
  
@Raketen Have you tried taobao?


----------



## foba

Revisitin my Mrice E100´s:
  
 I changed to slightly thicker donut foams and fiddled all night with the fitment until it finally clicked me: i got the best sound when the cable points behind the head, not torwards where you are looking. Also running the cable behind the ear seems to f up the fitment. What an enlightment after year of owning these. I prefer the sound to Monks AND Tomahawks which both have larger soundstages but does not sound as "lifelike" and imaging as E100´s. Monks are here to stay but Tomahawks are slightly let down for the price, should sell them since ~10eur E100 beats em when fitted correctly. Any recommendations how the get best from the Tomahawks before I do that? Tried full foam + donut foam to tame the slightly shrill/grainy treble, was OK but resolution got little worse.


----------



## vapman

With a good amp the E100 is better than Tomahawk or Monk IMO.
  
 I've been really enjoying the Sennheiser MX500 with thick red foams a lot lately BTW.... sounds a lot like the original monk but a bit darker and more bassy.


----------



## foba

vapman said:


> With a good amp the E100 is better than Tomahawk or Monk IMO.
> 
> I've been really enjoying the Sennheiser MX500 with thick red foams a lot lately BTW.... sounds a lot like the original monk but a bit darker and more bassy.


 
  
  
 Yeah, I feel like I bought too much into Tomahawk hype. Monks are fine just because of the price. Do you rate Sennheiser MX500 better than E100 or sidegrade?


----------



## vapman

foba said:


> Yeah, I feel like I bought too much into Tomahawk hype. Monks are fine just because of the price. Do you rate Sennheiser MX500 better than E100 or sidegrade?


 

 Give me a day or two and I'll tell you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Was on vacation for a few days and took only the Monk Plus, Shozy Zero and MX500 with me. Used the Mx500 the most!


----------



## rggz

Baldoor/Mrice need urgently release a new earbud with a good quality control, something like E100 MK2, v2, E200, with original tunning. It's a shame they have been downgraded the E100 and now we can't talk about them, because it's impossible match the opinions with different pairs with different SS on market.
  
 My old pair still my fav overall, but the new ones just sounds "ok".


----------



## vapman

I'd buy a handful of E100 successors in a second.
  
 C'mon Baldoor don't let me down now


----------



## dlbernau

If anyone is interested Amazon has some MX985's listed(Prime). I just got my pair today. Spectacular.


----------



## vapman

dlbernau said:


> If anyone is interested Amazon has some MX985's listed(Prime). I just got my pair today. Spectacular.


 

 Wow thanks for this. Sure they'll sell out super quick now that you posted this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Well now that everyone else who's owned a Mojito also owns the MX985 I guess I gotta buy the damn things. Unless they become my new #1, I'll probably pass em along shortly after getting to hear them for a bit.


----------



## pinoyman

nymphonomaniac said:


> !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 what iem was that with the red foam?


----------



## tamburlane

tamburlane said:


> I have the  "  qian 39 High Quality Headphones Earbud  " which is a more treble orientated bud in the same price range. For the price, I found it to represent excellent value for money, possessing a high level of detail retrieval  and a good soundstage. On the other hand they lacked bass; but this was acknowledged in the seller's product description - so that was fine.





  
 It is the ideal sound signature for me (high detail, clear sound). I guess that Qian 25 is bass oriented and Qian 39 is treble oriented. Have I understood correctly? 


  Yes I think so; althoughI haven't tried the Quian 25.  Bear in mind the quian 39 is good _for the price . _If you're willing to pay AU $47 for the 2016 Go Pro Music Maker Ting  you'll certainly get a more refined and balanced earbud .


----------



## Decommo

tamburlane said:


> tamburlane said:
> 
> 
> > I have the  "  qian 39 High Quality Headphones Earbud  " which is a more treble orientated bud in the same price range. For the price, I found it to represent excellent value for money, possessing a high level of detail retrieval  and a good soundstage. On the other hand they lacked bass; but this was acknowledged in the seller's product description - so that was fine.
> ...


 
  
 Thank you very much. Where can I get Ting for AU $47?


----------



## music4mhell

Guys, little off topic, i ordered one more Xduoo X3 to gift to lit bro.
 When i was using with my Monk+ yesterday, i felt it's a little under powered.
 Obviously i can't company my chord Mojo to X3. 
 I wanna know, when should i use than Gain(+6 db) option and also which DAC filter should i use ?
 All Xduoo X3 users, if you can share your experience, it will be great help, thank you.


----------



## yacobx

music4mhell said:


> Guys, little off topic, i ordered one more Xduoo X3 to gift to lit bro.
> When i was using with my Monk+ yesterday, i felt it's a little under powered.
> Obviously i can't company my chord Mojo to X3.
> I wanna know, when should i use than Gain(+6 db) option and also which DAC filter should i use ?
> All Xduoo X3 users, if you can share your experience, it will be great help, thank you.


 
 please switch to Rockbox. x3 stock OS sucks lol. rockbox fixes the play speed/ pitch issue.


----------



## music4mhell

yacobx said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Guys, little off topic, i ordered one more Xduoo X3 to gift to lit bro.
> ...


 
 My bro is not tech savy, so i don't want to change it. Any other tip on existing OS ?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

*Warning Pic heavy post
 So, the mailman decided to pay my uni a visit today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Look at what he brought from China:

  
 First off, my "burn in machine".

 A WMA and MP3 player with 70Hours of runtime. DQ280.
 It can with USB cable, Instructions and a set of-earbuds.
  
 Next up, a pair of spare Koss Vintage earbuds:

  
 Close up

 I may just recable these since these are spares.
  
 Moving on the legendary Monks (+):

 Very interesting packaging I must say.

 Then the SeaHF 320Ohms ver 1.0 custom tuned by bug bro:

  

 One thing I must mention about SeaHF, the amount of foams provided by the guy is absolutely insane (to me at least). I had to use a pen and paper to properly jolt down how many pairs of foams was included.

 The total number came at a total of _*15 PAIRS OF HOLE FOAMS and 18 PAIRS OF FULL FOAMS! *_ (Shozy you hear that?)
  
 Finally, here are the new budget earphone I bought from:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.OvJSGA&id=529399390775&_u=32i926dj23e0
  

  
 The price of these are RMB24.10 (excluding shipping) with the included accessories as pictured above. Once again, the earbuds are made by SeaHf but sold under the name of "Ty Hi-Z" with different tunning. The price of the buds are cheaper than the Monks RMB25.10 (excluding shipping).

 Interestingly, I only bought a pair of the bud, but the seller sent me 2 pairs with full accessories!!!!!
 Will be comparing these to the Monks+ after some burn in.


----------



## tamburlane

> It is the ideal sound signature for me (high detail, clear sound). I guess that Qian 25 is bass oriented and Qian 39 is treble oriented. Have I understood correctly?
> 
> 
> Yes I think so; althoughI haven't tried the Quian 25.  Bear in mind the quian 39 is good _for the price . _If you're willing to pay AU $47 for the 2016 Go Pro Music Maker Ting  you'll certainly get a more refined and balanced earbud .





  
 Thank you very much. Where can I get Ting for AU $47?


  Here's a link for the Ting Go Pro Music Maker. I have and am impressed by the Tomahawk which is similarly priced but I understand the Ting is more neutral/musical.


  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-Go-Pro-Music-Maker-Ting-Hifi-Earbuds-In-Ear-Earphone-Alloy-Tune-Earbuds-Such-as/32647342362.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.13.9qciJ7&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_7,searchweb201602_4_10017_10034_10021_507_10022_10032_10009_10020_10008_10018_9999_10019,searchweb201603_6&btsid=fc2c9776-2ed8-4172-81af-bbf904df1ac8


----------



## Spirulina780

After years of throwing away every earbud that i got with portable players, i finally wanted to try some earbuds again, since my Shure IEM´s have a very closed sound, and feels strange to use indoors.
  
 I got recommendations from head-fi to buy the Tomahawk, and today they arrived, and i love them already. Everything from the sound signature to the shrunken Grado sr60 design.
 They were better than i expected.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

tamburlane said:


> Thank you very much. Where can I get Ting for AU $47?
> 
> 
> Here's a link for the Ting Go Pro Music Maker. I have and am impressed by the Tomahawk which is similarly priced but I understand the Ting is more neutral/musical.
> ...


 
 This is the correct link, as the other just takes you to the main Aliexpress page:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-Go-Pro-Music-Maker-Ting-Hifi-Earbuds-In-Ear-Earphone-Alloy-Tune-Earbuds-Such-as/32647342362.html
  
 --


----------



## leobigfield

bloodypenguin said:


> This is the correct link, as the other just takes you to the main Aliexpress page:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-Go-Pro-Music-Maker-Ting-Hifi-Earbuds-In-Ear-Earphone-Alloy-Tune-Earbuds-Such-as/32647342362.html
> 
> --


 
  
 Isn't the green Ting different than the red Ting?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

leobigfield said:


> Isn't the green Ting different than the red Ting?


 
 Yes, they are tuned differently.  From what I have read, the Green has a little less bass and some other tweaks in the signature.

 I should have a pair of the Green Ting for myself in the next few months, unfortunately I will not be getting them anytime soon to compare.
  

 Though, if I do get my hands on a pair, I will post up my thoughts of them.
  
 --


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Guys, help needed, do you think I have a pair of busted Monks +? I feel the Monk+ has a tendency to echo on the upper frequencies.


----------



## Raketen

audionewbi3 said:


> Guys, help needed, do you think I have a pair of busted Monks +? I feel the Monk+ has a tendency to echo on the upper frequencies.


 

 idk if it's like the Zen 2 which has the same kind of housing, those have some weird acoustic resonance thing going on... wouldn't describe it as echo, more like their timbre.


----------



## yacobx

PR1 vs Monk


----------



## ClieOS

yacobx said:


> PR1 vs Monk


 
  
 I wonder who gives it the name PR1. I think Pai Audio just calls it 3.14 Flat.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> I wonder who gives it the name PR1. I think Pai Audio just calls it 3.14 Flat.


from blog?


----------



## Saoshyant

From what I remember, they were originally called the 3.14 Flat, but I suppose Pai decided to rename it to go along with their current naming convention for their IEMs.


----------



## golov17

Interestingly, only for me is Cygnus like Yuin pk1,5 lol (about pk1 & pk2)?


----------



## yacobx

clieos said:


> yacobx said:
> 
> 
> > PR1 vs Monk
> ...




Alex fan their PR person calls it the PR1 and also this


----------



## AudioNewbi3

raketen said:


> idk if it's like the Zen 2 which has the same kind of housing, those have some weird acoustic resonance thing going on... wouldn't describe it as echo, more like their timbre.


 
 Ah I see I see......Phew, for a sec there I thought my pair of Monks + was busted. But I'll give credit to Monks, their soundstage is wide. Havent listen to them much, so can say the same about details.


----------



## ClieOS

yacobx said:


> Alex fan their PR person calls it the PR1 and also this


 
  
 Visited their website and the name is still just '3.14 Flat'. They should really make up their mind from the beginning as changing name midflight only serves to confuse customer.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> Visited their website and the name is still just '3.14 Flat'. They should really make up their mind from the beginning as changing name midflight only serves to confuse customer.


 hehe


----------



## Decommo

bloodypenguin said:


> tamburlane said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you very much. Where can I get Ting for AU $47?
> ...


 
 @*tamburlane @BloodyPenguin  *Thank you very much for the link. I will check it out now.


----------



## Saoshyant

Question for Rose Mojito owners: Do you feel the included cable is of decent quality, or would a cable like the 64 Audio cable which runs for $32 most likely be an upgrade? This is my first earphone with a 2 pin connection, so I have no way to test.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

BTW, random note about Aliexpress and Head-Fi.

 As some of you may or may not be aware.  Any click on an Aliexpress link to a product will directly take you to just the Main Aliexpress page.  The only way to bypass this is to copy and paste the link into your browser.  

 It seems Head-Fi is worried about the abundance of Aliexpress reviews and links posted being used for personal gain.  
  
  
 For me, I have done three reviews of products obtained through Aliexpress, I was not paid for my work, but I did receive the items for free in return for a fair review.  To comply with this new development, I have going back to my reviews and deleted the Aliexpress links.  
  
 I was never contacted by any moderator or admin about my reviews or links.  I just wanted to be pro-active and cleanse my reviews of any confusion or question of authenticity.

 I also had two pending reviews of products received from Aliexpress, one of them being the Rose Mojito.  I have mailed the Rose Mojito and the other item back to the seller on Aliexpress and I will no longer be working with any vendor there.  
  
  
 As for the Rose Mojito, I did spend a LOT of time with it before I sent it back.  While I would agree it is a nice earbud, though it had some build issues and was not comfortable for my ear type at all.  
  
  
 I do have some more reviews of MusicMaker products in the future, but like the Tomahawk IEM review, all samples will be directly supplied through MusicMaker themselves and not any seller on Aliexpress.  
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

Justin, but not care, what the seller?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> Justin, but not care, what the seller?


 
  
 HCK:  Shenzhen HCkexin Electronic Technology Co., Ltd
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> HCK:  Shenzhen HCkexin Electronic Technology Co., Ltd
> 
> ..


OK


----------



## Tomasz2D

bloodypenguin said:


> It seems Head-Fi is worried about the abundance of Aliexpress reviews and links posted being used for personal gain.


 
  
 I contacted only two Aliexpress sellers before and in both cases they have asked me if I could recommend or advertise their product and in one case he offered price discount in return so I am affraid "sponsored" recommendations may be quite common here.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

tomasz2d said:


> I contacted only two Aliexpress sellers before and in both cases they have asked me if I could recommend or advertise their product and in one case he offered price discount in return so I am affraid "sponsored" recommendations may be quite common here.


 
  
 Oh, I 100% agree and I think it is good that Head-Fi has taken some steps to fix the issue.  

 Though I will say, on Head-Fi, it is hard to say something is good when it is not, because other users will quickly call them out.  
  
 ..


----------



## springbay

foba said:


> Revisitin my Mrice E100´s:
> 
> I changed to slightly thicker donut foams and fiddled all night with the fitment until it finally clicked me: i got the best sound when the cable points behind the head, not torwards where you are looking. Also running the cable behind the ear seems to f up the fitment. What an enlightment after year of owning these. I prefer the sound to Monks AND Tomahawks which both have larger soundstages but does not sound as "lifelike" and imaging as E100´s. Monks are here to stay but Tomahawks are slightly let down for the price, should sell them since ~10eur E100 beats em when fitted correctly. Any recommendations how the get best from the Tomahawks before I do that? Tried full foam + donut foam to tame the slightly shrill/grainy treble, was OK but resolution got little worse.


 
  
 Before selling the Tomahawks I'd advice that you try using something else than the included foams that comes with the buds.
 I've complained about not obtaining a decent fit and the artificial sound I was getting from the Tomahawks.
 I ended up using two layers of the included donut foams to make them stay put, and that probably affected the sound in the process.
  
 Yesterday I got the Monk Expansion pack in the mail. I tried all the Monk accessories on the Tomahawks and ended up with using only the rubber rings and no foams.
 That way I got a proper seal. Though this made them lack proper bass, they actually don't sound bad at all.
 The main issue now is that my ears get sore after using this combo for more than an hour.
  
 I'm pretty new to this earbud craze, and I'm learning new stuff every day by reading and experimenting. The one thing that is obvious to me, is that getting a proper seal pretty much determines if a bud is right for you or not.
 The size of the Monk housing with foams is just about ideal for me to obtain a proper seal - I just pop the buds into the ears and press play. The MusicMaker or Mrice housing is anything but ideal for me.
 I ordered the Cygnus ant the Zen 2.0 earlier this week, and I'm a little worried about how the Zen will fit my ear, since all reviewers say they ought to be used nude.
  
 Well I guess sometimes you need to take risks to make that shortcut to the perfect sound.


----------



## vapman

springbay said:


> since all reviewers say they ought to be used nude.


 
 I use my Zen 2.0 with full foams! (they're the new Monk+ style ones that are fuzzy looking, but still)
  
 at least use rubber rings...


----------



## springbay

vapman said:


> I use my Zen 2.0 with full foams! (they're the new Monk+ style ones that are fuzzy looking, but still)
> 
> at least use rubber rings...


 

 Sounds good! I've got plenty of Monk plus foams now. 
 The Zen 2.0 reviews I've read were from before the new foams were introduced.


----------



## vapman

Those new monk+ style foams don't affect the sound at all like the old style foams did. So just slap some of those suckers on, grab a decent amp, and wait for the realization you don't want to use any buds but the Zen to kick in


----------



## Tomasz2D

springbay said:


> The one thing that is obvious to me, is that getting a proper seal pretty much determines if a bud is right for you or not.


 
  
 I found out this is not always the obvious way to go. For me some earbuds sound better with loose fit. The best example would be Lyra 6 - you push it too hard into your ear and it sounds dull, let it hang on its hook, barely inserted into your ear and it sounds sweet. Another example would be Cygnus - again, sounds better with just a little loose fit.


----------



## goldenSHK

bloodypenguin said:


> Oh, I 100% agree and I think it is good that Head-Fi has taken some steps to fix the issue.
> 
> Though I will say, on Head-Fi, it is hard to say something is good when it is not, because other users will quickly call them out.
> 
> ..


 
 Ya agreed. Even though I always doubt the authenticity of reviews where a product is free. It's not like the person can outright lie, especially multiple times, otherwise they'd be found out as a "poor reviewer" or at worst an outright fraud/liar. So I'm not really concerned about these biased reviews (which without a doubt I would say it is biased) because they can't be THAT biased. This has happened in the past before with the Tingo Croons TG38S. I am almost sure that earbud was a scam referral tactic as it was said they were better than blox etc which is outright complete blasphemy. 


 And also for any clarification about me personally, all earbuds in my personal rankings in the original thread I started here have been paid completely by me without a discount/freebie for reviews or any arrangements thereof. So I can completely say I think my rankings are as unbiased as possible, at least for me haha.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

goldenshk said:


> Ya agreed. Even though I always doubt the authenticity of reviews where a product is free. It's not like the person can outright lie, especially multiple times, otherwise they'd be found out as a "poor reviewer" or at worst an outright fraud/liar. So I'm not really concerned about these biased reviews (which without a doubt I would say it is biased) because they can't be THAT biased. This has happened in the past before with the Tingo Croons TG38S. I am almost sure that earbud was a scam referral tactic as it was said they were better than blox etc which is outright complete blasphemy.
> 
> 
> And also for any clarification about me personally, all earbuds in my personal rankings in the original thread I started here have been paid completely by me without a discount/freebie for reviews or any arrangements thereof. So I can completely say I think my rankings are as unbiased as possible, at least for me haha.


 
  
 I got tricked into buying the TG38s, one of my least favorite buds of all time.  Luckily I now have a decent collection, though all of them are budget to mid priced.  I do not own anything like the Zens.

 See, I have bought about 50% of my Earbuds and 50% have been sent my way for review, all of them get rated the exact same way for me.
  
 Speaking of, I have a plethora of earbuds I bought (not review samples) headed my way.  Really excited to try them out.  Some are budget and some are about mid grade.  I'll post up my thoughts as they roll in.


----------



## Raketen

goldenshk said:


> So I can completely say I think my rankings are as unbiased as possible, at least for me haha.


 
  
 I think you get it right saying "at least for me" - not sure there is such a thing  as totally unbiased - maybe listening blindfolded you can get an opinion on only the sound... but what if the earpads are a little itchy and put the reviewer in a slightly bad mood, coloring the sound impressions


----------



## springbay

tomasz2d said:


> I found out this is not always the obvious way to go. For me some earbuds sound better with loose fit. The best example would be Lyra 6 - you push it too hard into your ear and it sounds dull, let it hang on its hook, barely inserted into your ear and it sounds sweet. Another example would be Cygnus - again, sounds better with just a little loose fit.


 
  
 I agree. The good seal I'm suggesting with an earbud is that it gets locked in the right angle to the ear canal, rather than the seal of an IEM that I want to be firmly stuck into the ear canal omitting surrounding sound.
 The problem I had with the Tomahawks (and somewhat the Tings as well) was that they wouldn't grip to anything inside the ear, constantly moving around, and almost never postioned in the right angle. The Monk plus expansion pack rubber rings on the Tomahawks helped me achieve that grip/seal.
 The Monks hangs pretty loose in my ears, but they stay that way all along a listening session.


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> I found out this is not always the obvious way to go. For me some earbuds sound better with loose fit. The best example would be Lyra 6 - you push it too hard into your ear and it sounds dull, let it hang on its hook, barely inserted into your ear and it sounds sweet. Another example would be Cygnus - again, sounds better with just a little loose fit.


+1000


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> Those new monk+ style foams don't affect the sound at all like the old style foams did. So just slap some of those suckers on, grab a decent amp, and wait for the realization you don't want to use any buds but the Zen to kick in


 
 I am enjoying my Zen 2 more and more with Monk+ red Blue foams. These are awesome.
 I was using Hiegi before, now i use Monk+ foams on all my highend earbuds.


----------



## vapman

bloodypenguin said:


> I got tricked into buying the TG38s, one of my least favorite buds of all time.  Luckily I now have a decent collection, though all of them are budget to mid priced.  I do not own anything like the Zens.
> 
> See, I have bought about 50% of my Earbuds and 50% have been sent my way for review, all of them get rated the exact same way for me.
> 
> Speaking of, I have a plethora of earbuds I bought (not review samples) headed my way.  Really excited to try them out.  Some are budget and some are about mid grade.  I'll post up my thoughts as they roll in.


 

 Were you not a fan of the Mojito?
  
 I shouldn't really be talking cause I sold my Mojitos but would have kept them if the fit worked better for me. I have yet to hear an earbud that matches it in detail and accuracy


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman said:


> Were you not a fan of the Mojito?
> 
> I shouldn't really be talking cause I sold my Mojitos but would have kept them if the fit worked better for me. I have yet to hear an earbud that matches it in detail and accuracy




I'm glad there's no fit issue for me, using them with the Monk+ accessories foams and they disappear in my ears. I'm pretty sure I hear a slight increase in detail vs MX985, but I'll have to compare using Mojo soon.


----------



## music4mhell

saoshyant said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > Were you not a fan of the Mojito?
> ...


 
 Go MOJO


----------



## ClieOS

I'll say that Mojito + Mojo is an exceptional pairing.


----------



## ZerkMeister

clieos said:


> I'll say that Mojito + Mojo is an exceptional pairing.




Mojo Jojo Combo.


----------



## Saoshyant

clieos said:


> I'll say that Mojito + Mojo is an exceptional pairing.


 
  
 I really should see how that pairing handles Rachmaninov.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Currently listening to my new SeaHF 320Ohms V1. 
  
 Bass extension is amazing! I finally understand (I guess) what some people mean by full size headphone sound from an earbud.

 Listening to Joe Hisaishi's - World Dream here are my quick very initial impressions

 Counter bass notes is amazing, I can actually feel each string vibrating.

 Horns are also very good.
  
 High notes from violin do not have the sparkle of my Dual Driver.

 However, trumpet and oboe notes are very naturally presented.
  
 Soundstage is to my ears at least, deep, rather than wide. Though it is still wider if not the same as the Cygnus.

 Overall, my initial impressions is that SeaHF 320Ohm V1 is a very laid back and dark sounding earbud. Great for long listening sessions. 

 *Kindly note that the above was my personal impression, and YMMW.

 EDIT: Forgotten to mention that the lower frequencies have more body to them compare to the Dual Drivers. I am comparing the V1 to the DD's because I am currently using the V1's to listen to Joe Hisaishi's Albums


----------



## goldenSHK

audionewbi3 said:


> Currently listening to my new SeaHF 320Ohms V1.
> 
> Bass extension is amazing! I finally understand (I guess) what some people mean by full size headphone sound from an earbud.
> 
> ...


 
 How is the sub-bass? More than Zen 2?


----------



## vapman

Mojito + Mojo is no joke! and if you bump up the bass EQ the Mojito is capable of quite serious sub bass...
  
 I am waiting on both 320 and 400 ohm versions of the SeaHf to show up. You guys made me do it....
  
@AudioNewbi3 Really excited to hear more of your impressions of it versus the Cygnuz/Zen 2. do note the sub bass too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 More than likely at least one will end up on the chopping block, so someone can look forward to a used set of SeaHf's 
  
@Saoshyant congrats on 2.5k posts!
  
 Earbud bassheads with amps might want to snatch up those last few Senn MX500's on ebay germany just saying...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

goldenshk said:


> How is the sub-bass? More than Zen 2?







vapman said:


> Mojito + Mojo is no joke! and if you bump up the bass EQ the Mojito is capable of quite serious sub bass...
> 
> I am waiting on both 320 and 400 ohm versions of the SeaHf to show up. You guys made me do it....
> 
> ...




Guys, sorry to dissapoint, but I do not own the ZEN's. 

However, for Cygnus, I will do a comparison with it after I have finish its intended 150-200 hour burn in.

Currently upto 50 hours


----------



## vapman

I know it's kind of hacky and ridiculous sounding, but while I thought the Sennheiser MX500 was pretty unimpressive, I realized if you set the inline volume control about halfway and turn the volume on your amp higher, the sound is something much sweeter and smoother. Suddenly all the sibilance is gone and there is an excellent balance of bass.
  
 so now i'm looking into recabling a set and putting a resistor inline so it would be like permanently having the inline volume control lower. Plus it might benefit sound-wise from the cable upgrade.
  
 I was going to try and not talk about the MX500 cause I was so excited about realizing how nice it can sound but I was too excited and posted about it


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> I am waiting on both 320 and 400 ohm versions of the SeaHf to show up. You guys made me do it....


 i too..  
try the taste of "enemy" lol


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> i too..
> try the taste of "enemy" lol


 
 *wink wink


----------



## AudioNewbi3

13USD ELIBUD SABIA from Indonesia has arrive mates!


----------



## Joy Boy

audionewbi3 said:


> Currently listening to my new SeaHF 320Ohms V1.
> 
> Bass extension is amazing! I finally understand (I guess) what some people mean by full size headphone sound from an earbud.
> 
> ...



Some says that seahf 320ohm v1 is a lot similar with ve zen 1.0.
I've ever had both. Seahf 320 v1 is best if you compared it to other series. And it's also has very good bass extension and headphone-like sensation.
But wait till you hear ve zen v1. Though it's a little bit similar, zen 1.0 will blow your mind with it's sound. It's THAT good. Best bass and PRaT from earbud world.

*can't wait your impresion of elibuds, mate


----------



## vapman

I actually only bought the 400ohm SeaHf, in the middle of trying to cut down on the number of buds I have anyway. Anyone know both that and the Zen 1.0 sound? Just curious. I'll post about the seahf of course when it gets in, but I feel almost guilty buying it!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

joy boy said:


> Some says that seahf 320ohm v1 is a lot similar with ve zen 1.0.
> I've ever had both. Seahf 320 v1 is best if you compared it to other series. And it's also has very good bass extension and headphone-like sensation.
> But wait till you hear ve zen v1. Though it's a little bit similar, zen 1.0 will blow your mind with it's sound. It's THAT good. Best bass and PRaT from earbud world.
> 
> *can't wait your impresion of elibuds, mate


 
  
 Will do an impression once I have settle my never ending assignments mate hahaha. Actually, I think (without ABing) after listening to V1 (custom tuned), the V2 seems a lot brighter lol!


vapman said:


> I actually only bought the 400ohm SeaHf, in the middle of trying to cut down on the number of buds I have anyway. Anyone know both that and the Zen 1.0 sound? Just curious. I'll post about the seahf of course when it gets in, but I feel almost guilty buying it!


 
  
 That topic is rather controversial here (?) So one would rather not touch on it. But here is just a fact according to my understanding, SeaHf used to produced the drivers for Monk, Asura and Zen 1.0's. Now don't quote me on this as I may be wrong.


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> I know it's kind of hacky and ridiculous sounding, but while I thought the Sennheiser MX500 was pretty unimpressive, I realized if you set the inline volume control about halfway and turn the volume on your amp higher, the sound is something much sweeter and smoother. Suddenly all the sibilance is gone and there is an excellent balance of bass.


 
  
 I think all electric guitar players know about it  If you want smoother sound - turn the guitar volume knob down. Turning down volume in passive circuit always takes away more treble then bass (unless there is built-in circuit that prevents it).


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> 13USD ELIBUD SABIA from Indonesia has arrive mates!


 
  
 Awesome.  How do you like it so far?
  
 Mine has been traveling since April 26th.  It is in the US now, I hope to get mine by early next week.
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

Hehe.. 300 Ohm...

http://s.aliexpress.com/qium2AFV


----------



## rggz

I know make comparisons between IEMs and earbuds seems like make a comparison between apples and oranges, but if it's possible someone knows an earbud with a similar signature of DUNU-2000 or 2KJ in the mid/highs? (sub-bass I think is impossible because the physics)


----------



## Tomasz2D

bloodypenguin said:


> I got tricked into buying the TG38s, one of my least favorite buds of all time.


 
  
 Actually I quite like TG38s and this is strange but I do not like Cygnus and Tomahawk that much (contrary to most opinions here). At least not yet. I wonder if there can be some production inconsistency that can make the same model sound differently depending on production run/lot. By the way I would like to thank you all for inspiration - I have been following some threads here and I have built my earbuds collection in just one month time. This is really great fun. Here is the picture of my "budcase".


----------



## BloodyPenguin

tomasz2d said:


> Actually I quite like TG38s but I do not like Cygnus and Tomahawk that much (contrary to most opinions here). At least not yet. I wonder if there can be some production inconsistency that can make the same model sound differently depending on production run/lot. By the way I would like to thank you all for inspiration - I have been following some threads here and I have built my earbuds collection in just one month time. This is really great fun. Here is the picture of my "budcase".


 
  
 I'm not sure if it even has to do with product inconsistency, It could be just that we hear things differently.  That is the great thing about Head-Fi, there are so many products being discussed here, but it basically comes down to finding what works best for you.
  
 For me, I'll be honest, the earbud I use most at home is a fake, $4 Sennheiser MX500, I think it sounds fantastically  fun: http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/1228643277.html  
  
 I'm happy to hear that I helped to inspire you with earbuds.  There are a lot of great members here who have done such a great job of keeping the earbud alive and growing.  For me it all started with the Awei ES10, then it exploded from there.


 Your budcase is quite impressive, you have a great collection going!
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

specially for your taste Tomasz2D, white Fareal


----------



## Tomasz2D

bloodypenguin said:


> I'm not sure if it even has to do with product inconsistency, It could be just that we hear things differently.


 
  
 Sure, our different ages, different music genres, different preferable listening volume levels etc.


----------



## Tomasz2D

golov17 said:


> specially for your taste Tomasz2D, white Fareal


 
  
 OK, I will keep my eye on this one


----------



## BloodyPenguin

tomasz2d said:


> OK, I will keep my eye on this one


 


 I have the white Fareal arriving early next week.  Heard it may be a bit bright for my tastes, but we will see shortly.
  
 .


----------



## Alex CY

Hi!
 has any one tried Ymhfpj diy MX500?  21$ - good deal for 320ohm earphones
 Also, the shop looking for reviewers of their DIY products


----------



## golov17

alex cy said:


> Hi!
> 
> has any one tried Ymhfpj diy MX500?  21$ - good deal for 320ohm earphones
> 
> Also, the shop looking for reviewers of their DIY products


 this?


----------



## Alex CY

golov17 said:


> this?


 
 yes  I mentioned them on PlayerRu forum. Maybe someone here familiar with them


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> Awesome.  How do you like it so far?
> 
> Mine has been traveling since April 26th.  It is in the US now, I hope to get mine by early next week.
> 
> ..


 
 Initial impressions of ELIBUD:

 Bass quality to my ears at least is better or equal to BOE (maybe better)

 You really notice the bass in these earbuds.
  
 Mids is to my ears quite foward
  
 Highs are well rounded

 Soundstage is deep and not wide.

 I am very sorry as I can only provide you with such a description with my limited experience and vocab.


----------



## golov17

alex cy said:


> yes  I mentioned them on PlayerRu forum. Maybe someone here familiar with them


you can ask the seller about his page on Taobao, and we can read reviews


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> Initial impressions of ELIBUD:
> 
> Bass quality to my ears at least is better or equal to BOE (maybe better)
> 
> ...


 
  
 With that description, I think I am REALLY going to like them.  Thanks!  
  
  
 Now I am really looking forward to getting my pair in next week!  
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> OK, I will keep my eye on this one


and you can look on Blox be7 mk1 and m2c mk2, search them


----------



## Trzystatrzy

Good earbuds for classical music?


----------



## vapman

@Trzystatrzy Mojito if you can afford them...
  
@Alex CY I am waiting for a review on them too! Maybe i will buy them if nobody else does in a while. I like high resistance earbud and MX500 both...
  
  
@AudioNewbi3 you are not a Newbi3 anymore man! Be confident in your reviews & opinions. I know you know what you're talking about by now.


----------



## Tomasz2D

So I got these new earbuds from Aliexpress seller - they are described as ES-E2 and ES-E4 models. When I asked the seller for their producer, the seller replied "this is diy earbud". But what does it exactly mean in headphones world? Is DIY the name of producer or it means some hand-made garrage production? I think DIY is also kind of KZ (Knowledge Zenith) brand name? But when I checked KZ offer they do not really offer earbuds but they do offer exactly same case that these earbuds have been delivered in. Does anybody has any clue who made them?


----------



## Townyj

tomasz2d said:


> So I got these new earbuds from Aliexpress seller - they are described as ES-E2 and ES-E4 models. When I asked the seller for their producer, the seller replied "this is diy earbud". But what does it exactly mean in headphones world? Is DIY the name of producer or it means some hand-made garrage production? I think DIY is also kind of KZ (Knowledge Zenith) brand name? But when I checked KZ offer they do not really offer earbuds but they do offer exactly same case that these earbuds have been delivered in. Does anybody has any clue who made them?




Those are the Dark Horse Extreme Queen ES-E4 and ES-E2, goto the Aliexpress easy store and you will see.


----------



## Tomasz2D

townyj said:


> Those are the Dark Horse Extreme Queen ES4 etc.


 
 OK, but I think Dark Horse is just a trading company and not actual producer.


----------



## Townyj

tomasz2d said:


> OK, but I think Dark Horse is just a trading company and not actual producer.




Hmmm could be right it says DIY earphone when you read the details. :/ looks like you know what i do


----------



## Townyj

Has anyone seen these? 300ohm Music Maker earbuds. Music Maker TO300, found them on the HCK store.


----------



## rggz

townyj said:


> Has anyone seen these? 300ohm Music Maker earbuds. Music Maker TO300, found them on the HCK store.


 
  
 Hey mate, can you post the link of product? I can't find on aliexpress or google.


----------



## klove4252

rggz said:


> Hey mate, can you post the link of product? I can't find on aliexpress or google.


 
 These look like them: 
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-MusicMaker-TO300-High-Impedance-320ohms-Flat-Head-Plug-Earbud-Earphone-High-Impedance-Earphone-Free-Shipping/1825606_32661221231.html


----------



## rggz

klove4252 said:


> These look like them:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-MusicMaker-TO300-High-Impedance-320ohms-Flat-Head-Plug-Earbud-Earphone-High-Impedance-Earphone-Free-Shipping/1825606_32661221231.html


 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## klove4252

rggz said:


> Thanks!


 
 No problem! I just placed an order. I probably should have waited for some reviews or general feedback, but the word "new" gets me every time.


----------



## Uwun Munbu

ES-E4 is a diy earbud by a seller call 调音师耳机会铺[tuner earphone shop] in taobao. It's just sound ok nothing special.


----------



## vapman

Anyone here got a preference for cables? I am looking to buy a couple cables to re-wire some buds, but I was having trouble finding ones en Aliexpress that weren't already terminated with some kind of connector... I know i've seen people post links to them before but I can't find em now


----------



## ClieOS

tomasz2d said:


> So I got these new earbuds from Aliexpress seller - they are described as ES-E2 and ES-E4 models. When I asked the seller for their producer, the seller replied "this is diy earbud". But what does it exactly mean in headphones world? Is DIY the name of producer or it means some hand-made garrage production? I think DIY is also kind of KZ (Knowledge Zenith) brand name? But when I checked KZ offer they do not really offer earbuds but they do offer exactly same case that these earbuds have been delivered in. Does anybody has any clue who made them?


 
  
 I have the one with the golden back (balanced tuned, you can also get the treble tuned or bass tuned version) for about a week now, which is the guys current flagship and quite good (just don't use it with any foam pad). Well worth the money I paid for. The actual title listed on Taobao roughly translated to 'Queen's level DIY earphone HiFi full range frequency queen's extreme full range frequency earphone have-them-all' - yes, it doesn't really make much sense even in Chinese, but it is sort of the way some seller like to name them product, - not actual model name but somewhat of a promoting phrase.
  
 The other one is 'Tuner's earbuds style poison vocal perfect tuning DIY earphone personal-custom-tuning earphone HiFi earphone'. Haha.
  
 'DIY' in China often refers very small company (or even just an one man's operation) products, nothing mass produced. But what I like about this guys is that he has consistently made most of his earbuds with custom shell instead of the generic housing everyone else is using. I'll have to give him credit for that.
  


townyj said:


> Those are the Dark Horse Extreme Queen ES-E4 and ES-E2, goto the Aliexpress easy store and you will see.


 
  
 Those are the AE name, probably AE seller made them up because there isn't a real model name they can go for. Certainly not the actual titles listed on Taobao.
  


uwun munbu said:


> ES-E4 is a diy earbud by a seller call 调音师耳机会铺[tuner earphone shop] in taobao. It's just sound ok nothing special.


 
  
*调音师耳机铺 *


----------



## Uwun Munbu

I also got the balance version.


----------



## Ymer

Question: I've been using an assortment of very good headphones and iems over the years, what do earbuds bring to the table?

Mainly classical listener.

Thanks!


----------



## leobigfield

vapman said:


> Anyone here got a preference for cables? I am looking to buy a couple cables to re-wire some buds, but I was having trouble finding ones en Aliexpress that weren't already terminated with some kind of connector... I know i've seen people post links to them before but I can't find em now




Try www.lunashops.com 

http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=5053


----------



## vapman

Thanks! I also found that Cygnus-like cable Golov posted.
  
 In other news my Seahf 400 ohm's shipped! And they use the same cable I'm curious about buying so I can see if I like it first


----------



## AudioNewbi3

townyj said:


> Has anyone seen these? 300ohm Music Maker earbuds. Music Maker TO300, found them on the HCK store.


 
  
 Wow, looks like the earbud is very much alive now. First we have VE's, then the SeaHF's, then the DIYer's, now even Music Maker?! Anyone who purchased them, if possible, kindly share your impressions here hahaha.
  


vapman said:


> @AudioNewbi3 you are not a Newbi3 anymore man! Be confident in your reviews & opinions. I know you know what you're talking about by now.


 
 Aww, thanks mate! That means a lot to me. However, one will never stop learning, I will continue to improve myself!
  


tomasz2d said:


> So I got these new earbuds from Aliexpress seller - they are described as ES-E2 and ES-E4 models. When I asked the seller for their producer, the seller replied "this is diy earbud". But what does it exactly mean in headphones world? Is DIY the name of producer or it means some hand-made garrage production? I think DIY is also kind of KZ (Knowledge Zenith) brand name? But when I checked KZ offer they do not really offer earbuds but they do offer exactly same case that these earbuds have been delivered in. Does anybody has any clue who made them?


 
  
  


clieos said:


> I have the one with the golden back (balanced tuned, you can also get the treble tuned or bass tuned version) for about a week now, which is the guys current flagship and quite good (just don't use it with any foam pad). Well worth the money I paid for. The actual title listed on Taobao roughly translated to 'Queen's level DIY earphone HiFi full range frequency queen's extreme full range frequency earphone have-them-all' - yes, it doesn't really make much sense even in Chinese, but it is sort of the way some seller like to name them product, - not actual model name but somewhat of a promoting phrase.
> 
> The other one is 'Tuner's earbuds style poison vocal perfect tuning DIY earphone personal-custom-tuning earphone HiFi earphone'. Haha.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sifu, is 调音师 the original maker and distributor of the ES-E2 and ES-E4?


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> Thanks! I also found that Cygnus-like cable Golov posted.
> 
> In other news my Seahf 400 ohm's shipped! And they use the same cable I'm curious about buying so I can see if I like it first


 
 Seahf 400 and Cygnus cables are different.


----------



## Tomasz2D

uwun munbu said:


> ES-E4 is a diy earbud by a seller call 调音师耳机会铺[tuner earphone shop] in taobao. It's just sound ok nothing special.


 
  
 Uwun Munbu and ClieOS - thanks for your replies. So tiaoyinshi.world.taobao.com would be original producer of these earbuds? This is really crazy, this looks like boutique earbuds and I never thought there would be times when somebody would make boutique earbuds. Sorry I am not on Taobao. Are you able to contact that producer and check if these are really his own products and whether he uses same driver in all different shells or he uses different drivers?
  
 The reason I am interested in his products is that I really like these two models I already got. The craftmanship is top notch, well for the sound - as usual - depends on preferences. ClieOS - have you bought it from Aliexpress or from Taobao?


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> Seahf 400 and Cygnus cables are different.


why you do not want to post pictures? is it really so difficult ??


----------



## Tomasz2D

golov17 said:


> why you do not want to post pictures? is it really so difficult ??


 
 Here we go. Cygnus cable feels little bit softer.


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> Here we go. Cygnus cable feels little bit softer.


----------



## Trzystatrzy

Good earbuds for classical music cheaper than Mojito?  Maybe Creative Air?


----------



## vapman

trzystatrzy said:


> Good earbuds for classical music cheaper than Mojito?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I keep forgetting about the Air... never heard it, but I know the Cygnus is great.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Guys, may I kindly have your opinion on the following ? :

 Whenever I first receive a new earbud, I will immediately wipe it down with rubbing alcohol using a tissue. Only after that procedure, do I consider the earbuds "clean".
  
 However what gets me the most is that whenever I want to use my buds, I will always wipe my face before I use the earbud. I hate the fact that my oily face (I live in a tropical climate) and ears will stain the earbuds.
  
 After every use, I will clean the buds with micro fiber cloth.

 My question is, am I normal? Or am I just being too over protective of my earbuds?

 Thanks


----------



## Tomasz2D

trzystatrzy said:


> Good earbuds for classical music cheaper than Mojito?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hi fellow-countryman If you want you could indicate 3 classical pieces and I will use them to compare earbuds that I own and will give you my tips but it will last at least a day or two.


----------



## Tomasz2D

audionewbi3 said:


> However what gets me the most is that whenever I want to use my buds, I will always wipe my face before I use the earbud. I hate the fact that my oily face (I live in a tropical climate) and ears will stain the earbuds.


 
 So you have no choice but to move to different climate  zone or use only waterproof, sport earbuds


----------



## audiobot

My niece's Shozy Cygnus up for grabs on the sale thread. She prefers isolated iems. I am the bargain king by the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Happy head-fi.


----------



## goldenSHK

Anyone else think that the new VE Monk+ shiny/fluffy blue+red foams are extremely good? I really like this new sponge-foam material VE is using in their foams. I think that it is even better than Heigi and other foam products. The thing that I most enjoy is the fact that it is fluffy but also has much wider pores than normal foams which basically make donut foams obsolete because I think the amount of air that these sponge-foams let in allows for the earbud holes to be completely open. Really glad I bought extra foams from the expansion pack. This new material is great.


----------



## music4mhell

i totally agree with u, i changed all my hiegi foams with monk+ blue green foams.

it's game changing truly, specially for zen, cygnus, dark horse g400.


----------



## goldenSHK

music4mhell said:


> i totally agree with u, i changed all my hiegi foams with monk+ blue green foams.
> 
> it's game changing truly, specially for zen, cygnus, dark horse g400.


 
 The best part is that it's noticeably more comfortable because of how much softer they are than old foam material. Since most of the new spongy material is just air, it feels very soft and form fitting inside the ear. The highs also aren't obstructed at all. 
  
 It is kind of interesting that the most positive thing to arrive in my Monk+ package was not the Monk+ itself (which are pretty good by itself), but the actual spongy foams.


----------



## golov17

I immediately appreciated the new foams, how great! They gave a second life to many earbuds with dark sound of my collection. Big Deal, really


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> Sifu, is 调音师 the original maker and distributor of the ES-E2 and ES-E4?


 
  
 Yes, since no one else is selling the same model on Taobao and he is the only one using those shell.
  
  


tomasz2d said:


> ...ClieOS - have you bought it from Aliexpress or from Taobao?


 
  
 I always get my earbuds from Taobao first. as Taobao is usually much cheaper than AE. In this case, I got mine from 调音师's Taobao store.


----------



## Tomasz2D

clieos said:


> I always get my earbuds from Taobao first. as Taobao is usually much cheaper than AE. In this case, I got mine from 调音师's Taobao store.


 
 OK, I tried to communicate with that store owner but it was difficult using Google translate. I think I have to use Taobao agent if I want to buy anything there.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> I always get my earbuds from Taobao first. as Taobao is usually much cheaper than AE. In this case, I got mine from 调音师's Taobao store.


you tried them?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Yes, since no one else is selling the same model on Taobao and he is the only one using those shell.


 
 Thanks for the reply sifu


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> you tried them?


 
  
 DaiK? No. Have been thinking about it for awhile now, but never quite make up my mind so far.


----------



## Ymer

What are those and where can I buy them? :O



golov17 said:


> you tried them?


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> DaiK? No. Have been thinking about it for awhile now, but never quite make up my mind so far.


the same, similarly ..


----------



## golov17

ymer said:


> What are those and where can I buy them? :O


New Original Wooden Earbuds DK-Pu Bass Earbud DK-JIN DIY Magic Sound MX985 Earbud
 http://s.aliexpress.com/f2YNZjaa


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> New Original Wooden Earbuds DK-Pu Bass Earbud DK-JIN DIY Magic Sound MX985 Earbud
> http://s.aliexpress.com/f2YNZjaa


 
  
 DK-Jin (晋）should have been the name. I really don't know why AE seller always want to randomly change the name.
  
 DaiK is the maker. He likes to name some of his headphone using the different Chinese dynasties.


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> New Original Wooden Earbuds DK-Pu Bass Earbud DK-JIN DIY Magic Sound MX985 Earbud
> http://s.aliexpress.com/f2YNZjaa


 

 I swear, you and me are on the same wavelength...
  
 I bought  the DK JIN this morning before seeing these posts lol


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> I swear, you and me are on the same wavelength...
> 
> I bought  the DK JIN this morning before seeing these posts lol


----------



## kurtextrem

So: My tiny Tomahawk conclusion and Cygnus vs Asura 2.0
  
 Tomahawks: Very airy sound (like it's more spread out around *and further away* from your head), personally I don't like it - it sounds tinny for me
 Also the fit is a bit uncomfortable for me.
  
 Cygnus: Highlights every tone in music. I heard details I haven't heard before when listening to songs I know since 3+ years lol
 that was soo surprising and I really enjoyed listening. Sound is not spread out around your head but it is in your ears.
 But I have to say something (if I only knew the differences between high mid and lows I could be more exact) is not as full as when using the Asura 2.0's.
 The fit is great!
 The Tomahawks cable is interesting, but Cygnus' cable is REALLY interesting and looks great.
  
 Asura 2.0:
 Slightly worse fit compared to the Cygnus, something is more detailed (see above) - especially voices and it has a somehow more room (I can't really describe it - but it is similar to 7.1 vs stereo headphones. Cygnus feels like stereo, Asura more like 7.1, like it's all around your head not only left / right ears; But it is not further away like the Tomahawks).
 It has a boring black plastic cable though  and L/R is indeed very hard to see (especially at night) (not an issue for Cygnus/Tomahawks)
  
 Will probably stick to Asura.


----------



## vapman

lol, that was my biggest problem with Asura 2, and now it's my biggest problem with Monk+ ;P


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> you tried them?




Narrow soundstage with ok depth. Quite lively and forward V-shaped sound. Not airy at all, like I prefer my earbuds to be...

Edit: they are some of the most beautiful earbuds I have seen, together with the Radius wood earbuds (also narrow soundstage and forward sound, but not as V-shaped as DK-jin).


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> Narrow soundstage with ok depth. Quite lively and forward V-shaped sound. Not airy at all, like I prefer my earbuds to be...


good for jazz female vocal?


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> good for jazz female vocal?




They might be. You get an intimate presentation from them.


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> They might be. You get an intimate presentation from them.


Approximately so I imagined..


----------



## Danneq

kurtextrem said:


> Tomahawks: Very airy sound (like it's more spread out around *and further away* from your head)




This is why I like them and keep coming back to them again and again even if I have better earbuds (Blox TM7, MM Ting, Sennheiser MX980, VE Zen 1...). Percussion sounds amazing on the Tomahawks and the instrument separation and "body" of indtruments and especially percussion is just about as good as on the TOTL earbuds. And that airy "out of my head" sound is one of the reasons I prefer earbuds to IEMs.

Am in Japan right now. No new earbuds, but I grabbed a used Kenwood Mediakeg MG-G608 DAP for just 7000 yen from a Book off store. It looks like it hasn't been used much and the original screen protector is still on. Sounds real nice even if I prefer my older HDD Kenwood HD20GA7 (from memory since I did not bring it with me - have only compared it to a Cowon D2 and Rio Carbon which I did bring). Bass feels a bit on the light side on this Kenwood, but the soundstage is pretty big and you get good detail. Still, I hope to find a used HD30GB9 or HD60GB9EC. These old Kenwood HDD based DAPs can compete with many current Chinese audiophile DAPs...

BTW, I found those transparent 3.14 earbuds at the local Yodobashi. 2500 yen. Listened but didn't buy. Just gotta love Japan since you can find many obscure and rare things in regular electronics stores...


----------



## Tomasz2D

golov17 said:


> good for jazz female vocal?


 
 I have these earbuds. Tell me your 3 favorite songs and I may check them.


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> I have these earbuds. Tell me your 3 favorite songs and I may check them.


some from "The Best of Holly Cole", please


----------



## Joy Boy

Excuse me, anyone here knows or ever tried BGVP ABC cable adapter? Contains 3 set of cable with different sound changes.
Mine arrived today and i tried it. It's so unbelievably great. You could get 3 different sound from 1 earbud.
Just curious if anyone have tried this magical cable. May be a good option to improve some weak sector from an earbud


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> This is why I like them and keep coming back to them again and again even if I have better earbuds (Blox TM7, MM Ting, Sennheiser MX980, VE Zen 1...). Percussion sounds amazing on the Tomahawks and the instrument separation and "body" of indtruments and especially percussion is just about as good as on the TOTL earbuds. And that airy "out of my head" sound is one of the reasons I prefer earbuds to IEMs.
> 
> Am in Japan right now. No new earbuds, but I grabbed a used Kenwood Mediakeg MG-G608 DAP for just 7000 yen from a Book off store. It looks like it hasn't been used much and the original screen protector is still on. Sounds real nice even if I prefer my older HDD Kenwood HD20GA7 (from memory since I did not bring it with me - have only compared it to a Cowon D2 and Rio Carbon which I did bring). Bass feels a bit on the light side on this Kenwood, but the soundstage is pretty big and you get good detail. Still, I hope to find a used HD30GB9 or HD60GB9EC. These old Kenwood HDD based DAPs can compete with many current Chinese audiophile DAPs...
> 
> BTW, I found those transparent 3.14 earbuds at the local Yodobashi. 2500 yen. Listened but didn't buy. Just gotta love Japan since you can find many obscure and rare things in regular electronics stores...


 
  Kenwood MediaKegs are practically of cult status on chinese forums if I am not mistaken.


----------



## golov17

joy boy said:


> Excuse me, anyone here knows or ever tried BGVP ABC cable adapter? Contains 3 set of cable with different sound changes.
> Mine arrived today and i tried it. It's so unbelievably great. You could get 3 different sound from 1 earbud.
> Just curious if anyone have tried this magical cable. May be a good option to improve some weak sector from an earbud


i use "c" with Zen2.0 & "a" with Meizu's buds


----------



## Joy Boy

golov17 said:


> i use "c" with Zen2.0 & "a" with Meizu's buds



Correct me if i'm wrong. 
A: bright
B: forward midrange
C: kind of reverb effect, airy & luxury staging. Sometimes sound as if you played the song with gramophone


----------



## Tomasz2D

golov17 said:


> some from "The Best of Holly Cole", please


 
  
 OK, this time I remember about the picture 
  
 Full foams on. So these wooden earbuds are something special. I tried to compare them with others that I have and it looks like they have the closest scene presentation. The scene presentation is like you are with other musicians standing on the same scene or you are in very small club or even you are in your bedroom and they play especially for you (private concert, wow). The sound is on warm side and fat. Piano is really great, fat again. Sound signature - they are closer to Zen 2.0, Tomahawk/Ting, further from Cygnus, Monk. Instruments and vocal sound true, nice overall balance and separation. Two important things to remember - first these earbuds do not scale very good with volume increase - becouse so close scene presentation they are best for low and medium volume listening, with high volume vocal pushes to much straight into middle of your head and can become unpleasent. Secondly, they are for bigger ears and can be unconfortable for smaller ears.


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> OK, this time I remember about the picture
> 
> Full foams on. So these wooden earbuds are something special. I tried to compare them with others that I have and it looks like they have the closest scene presentation. The scene presentation is like you are with other musicians standing on the same scene or you are in very small club or even you are in your bedroom and they play especially for you (private concert, wow). The sound is on warm side and fat. Piano is really great, fat again. Sound signature - they are closer to Zen 2.0, Tomahawk/Ting, further from Cygnus, Monk. Instruments and vocal sound true, nice overall balance and seperation. Two important things to remember - first these earbuds do not scale very good with volume increase - becouse so close scene presentation they are best for low and medium volume listening, with high volume vocal pushes to much straight into middle of your head and can become unpleasent. Secondly, they are for bigger ears and can be unconfortable for smaller ears.


OK, thanks, mate


----------



## Ymer

Says page not found and I can't seem to find them by searching. Any ideas?

Thanks





golov17 said:


> New Original Wooden Earbuds DK-Pu Bass Earbud DK-JIN DIY Magic Sound MX985 Earbud
> http://s.aliexpress.com/f2YNZjaa


----------



## supplehope

joy boy said:


> Excuse me, anyone here knows or ever tried BGVP ABC cable adapter? Contains 3 set of cable with different sound changes.
> Mine arrived today and i tried it. It's so unbelievably great. You could get 3 different sound from 1 earbud.
> Just curious if anyone have tried this magical cable. May be a good option to improve some weak sector from an earbud




Heard these with the KC08 very briefly back on Saturday.

A: Bright, less mid-bass
B: Forward mids, more mid-bass, more v-shaped presence as well
C: More transparent signature, slightly more sub-bass (which is already excellent by its own rights)


----------



## ClieOS

joy boy said:


> Excuse me, anyone here knows or ever tried BGVP ABC cable adapter? Contains 3 set of cable with different sound changes.
> Mine arrived today and i tried it. It's so unbelievably great. You could get 3 different sound from 1 earbud.
> Just curious if anyone have tried this magical cable. May be a good option to improve some weak sector from an earbud


 
  
 Have them for a few weeks now but I haven't actually open the package yet. Will do a quick measurement and see how they go.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

@ClieOS may I kindly know where would you placed the 调音师 (ES-E4) (女王级diy耳机) the  earbud in your ranking? 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## golov17

ymer said:


> Says page not found and I can't seem to find them by searching. Any ideas?
> 
> Thanks


 http://ru.aliexpress.com/item/diy-in-ear-earphone-Wood-Open-earphone/32569104703.html?spm=2114.13010308.0.81.Q0RQO1


----------



## Tomasz2D

ymer said:


> Says page not found and I can't seem to find them by searching. Any ideas?


 
  
 Search Aliexpress:
 "dk-jin" for one seller or "diy wood open in-ear" for 2 other sellers.


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> Search Aliexpress:
> "dk-jin" for one seller or "diy wood open in-ear" for 2 other sellers.


 

 yup i bought mine from one of these sellers, forget who


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> @ClieOS may I kindly know where would you placed the 调音师 (ES-E4) (女王级diy耳机) the  earbud in your ranking?
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 Haven't really made up my mind yet. AT this point, I'll say it is likely in the mid-to-low Great.
  
  
 Here are the measurement of Sidy's Cable A/B/C. A is marketed as the 'Goddess' cable, which increase mid and treble (*female vocal). B is marketed as 'Analytical' cable, which increase detail and volume. Lastly, C is marketed as 'De-sibilant' cable, which reduces sibilance as well as improve soundstage.
  
 Cable A:


  
 Cable B:


  
 Cable C:


  
 The first graph of each cable shows the _difference_ of FR curve with Etymotic ER4S (basically maximizing the effect of the cable only, while removing FR curve of the ER4 itself). The 2nd graph of each cable shows the _difference _in impedance curve and phase. Based on these graphs, Cable A is pretty much a high pass filter that rolls off the bass, and Cable C is a low pass filter that rolls off the high. Cable B really doesn't do much to the FR curve, but does have some effect on Impedance curve and noticeably phase, which I suspect is small value caps paralleled to ground channel for tuning. So do these cables have any effect on sound? Yes, they do, though the effect can be quite different based on the headphone you use. If your headphone has flat impedance curve, the effect will be close to what the cables are meant to do. If the impedance curve is very curvy, then the result will be much less predictable. Regardless, I don't think Cable B will actually increase the volume. It is more like an audio illusion because the tuning has changed.


----------



## Joy Boy

supplehope said:


> Heard these with the KC08 very briefly back on Saturday.
> 
> A: Bright, less mid-bass
> B: Forward mids, more mid-bass, more v-shaped presence as well
> C: More transparent signature, slightly more sub-bass (which is already excellent by its own rights)



I feel the changes are same as you write.



clieos said:


> Haven't really made up my mind yet. AT this point, I'll say it is likely in the mid-to-low Great.
> 
> [rule]
> Here are the measurement of Sidy's Cable A/B/C. A is marketed as the 'Goddess' cable, which increase mid and treble (*female vocal). B is marketed as 'Analytical' cable, which increase detail and volume. Lastly, C is marketed as 'De-sibilant' cable, which reduces sibilance as well as improve soundstage.
> ...



Wow, nice explanation and graphic sir. But i hear some hiss when i use cable C. I wonder if it's just me or that's just the character of that cable. I used it on ve zen v1.
While for the cable A i hear bright sensation and warm for B. The C sound airy and sometimes too analog. Or maybe that's why sometimes i can hear some hiss?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Haven't really made up my mind yet. AT this point, I'll say it is likely in the mid-to-low Great.
> 
> [rule]
> Here are the measurement of Sidy's Cable A/B/C. A is marketed as the 'Goddess' cable, which increase mid and treble (*female vocal). B is marketed as 'Analytical' cable, which increase detail and volume. Lastly, C is marketed as 'De-sibilant' cable, which reduces sibilance as well as improve soundstage.
> ...




Thanks for the info sifu!
How can I know the flatness of my impedance cure?


----------



## ClieOS

joy boy said:


> I feel the changes are same as you write.
> Wow, nice explanation and graphic sir. But i hear some hiss when i use cable C. I wonder if it's just me or that's just the character of that cable. I used it on ve zen v1.
> While for the cable A i hear bright sensation and warm for B. The C sound airy and sometimes too analog. Or maybe that's why sometimes i can hear some hiss?


 
  
 Hiss as in sibilance or background hiss? If it is the former, that could be that, because the higher end is more rolled off that is caused the upper mid content (upper femal vocal, a la, ssss~) to be more noticeable.


audionewbi3 said:


> Thanks for the info sifu!
> How can I know the flatness of my impedance cure?


 
  
 You will have to measure it. There are several ways but by far the ARTA's build-in impedance program is the easiest, but it requires a simple measurement rig to be built (though you can also buy one from Taobao).


----------



## Joy Boy

clieos said:


> Hiss as in sibilance or background hiss? If it is the former, that could be that, because the higher end is more rolled off that is caused the upper mid content (upper femal vocal, a la, ssss~) to be more noticeable.



I see, so that's why i hear a few hiss but not in every song. Usually in jazz/swing song. Thanks so much sir


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> You will have to measure it. There are several ways but by far the ARTA's build-in impedance program is the easiest, but it requires a simple measurement rig to be built (though you can also buy one from Taobao).


 
 Thanks for the reply. Oh if measuring the parameters needs special equipments, I will hold back............for now. If I could read even half of what is presented to me, the sun would rise from the west hahaha.


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, a bit off topic, but I'm liking the new Radiohead album with the Mojito off the xDuoo X3.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Got a few random budget earbuds in from MisterTao.  Some of them have been discussed on here and some have not.

 I'll post up if any of them turn out being any good.  
  

  
 I also have a few other, mid-level earbuds coming very soon as well.  Can't wait to get those. But in the meantime, I have those budget earbuds to check out.  
  
 --


----------



## kiler

Share the goodness if any of them stands out


----------



## iemmustiane

Any differences between the 2015 and 2016 versions of the MusicMaker tomahawk besides the plug?
  
 2015:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Go-Pro-MrZ-Tomahawk-Music-Maker-Earbuds-In-Ear-Earphone-Alloy-Tune-Earbuds-Such-as/32595576926.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.1.aygSKm&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_7,searchweb201602_3_10017_10034_10021_507_10022_10020_10018_9999_10019,searchweb201603_1&btsid=93ab2b2e-cc8b-4824-af57-d517a9bf1931
  
 2016:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-Newest-HCK-MX1-In-Ear-Earphone-BA-Double-Unit-Headphone-HIFI-Fever-DIY-Headset-As/32591304629.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.40.aygSKm&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_7,searchweb201602_3_10017_10034_10021_507_10022_10020_10018_9999_10019,searchweb201603_1&btsid=93ab2b2e-cc8b-4824-af57-d517a9bf1931
  
 Is the new plug more durable?


----------



## ClieOS

iemmustiane said:


> Any differences between the 2015 and 2016 versions of the MusicMaker tomahawk besides the plug?
> 
> ... Is the new plug more durable?


 
  
 Those are the same thing. MusicMaker has never made two different version of Tomahawk.


----------



## iemmustiane

clieos said:


> Those are the same thing. MusicMaker has never made two different version of Tomahawk. ​


 
 Look at the plugs and the logo on the side


----------



## ClieOS

iemmustiane said:


> Look at the plugs and the logo on the side


 
  
 If you are referring to the version with the fake crystal, that is the same Tomahawk as well and is offered since the beginning (alongside silver and black color). All have the same sound.
  
 If you are referring to the marking of 'Music Maker' vs. 'Toneking - those are still the same Tomahawk. Music Maker decided to switch its brand name to Toneking when they released the Ting, which is a newer model after Tomahawk, so early Tomahawk has the older brand name while newer Tomahawk gets the new name. Again, still the same Tomahawk.


----------



## iemmustiane

clieos said:


> If you are referring to the version with the fake crystal, that is the same Tomahawk as well and is offered since the beginning (alongside silver and black color). All have the same sound.
> 
> If you are referring to the marking of 'Music Maker' vs. 'Toneking - those are still the same Tomahawk. Music Maker decided to switch its brand name to Toneking when they released the Ting, which is a newer model after Tomahawk, so early Tomahawk has the older brand name while newer Tomahawk gets the new name. Again, still the same Tomahawk.


 





  


 But look at the cable/plugs, that's what I'm talking about. The top picture is supposedly the 2016 version, the bottom the 2015


----------



## music4mhell

iemmustiane said:


> clieos said:
> 
> 
> > If you are referring to the version with the fake crystal, that is the same Tomahawk as well and is offered since the beginning (alongside silver and black color). All have the same sound.
> ...


 
 I have this, it's 2015 model.
  
 2016 model is smaller than 2015 model.


----------



## iemmustiane

music4mhell said:


> I have this, it's 2015 model.
> 
> 2016 model is smaller than 2015 model.


 
 So which version should I be going for? Any idea how these sound compared to the monks?


----------



## music4mhell

iemmustiane said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I have this, it's 2015 model.
> ...


 
 Well my personal opinion is 2016 model.
 2015 model is a bit bright to me, also bigger to my ears. But that's my opinion.


----------



## ryanjsoo

music4mhell said:


> Well my personal opinion is 2016 model.
> 2015 model is a bit bright to me, also bigger to my ears. But that's my opinion.


 
  


music4mhell said:


> Well my personal opinion is 2016 model.
> 2015 model is a bit bright to me, also bigger to my ears. But that's my opinion.


 
  
 So the 2015 model has a matte plug and y-split whilst the 2016 version has a chrome finish?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Just a head up regarding the MusicMaker, ToneKing Tomahawks:

 1) the 2015 and 2016 version are tuned exactly the same
 2) the only thing which have changed are the logos and y-splitter
 3) the reason for the change in brand was as what the great ClieOs mentioned
  
 At least that is what I understood after reading MusicMakers, Toneking official taobao page.


----------



## ClieOS

I just PM'ed Music Maker using Taobao's messeger service, and he confirmed that both 2015 and 2016 version sounds exactly the same. All the changes are cosmetic only, case closed.


----------



## Townyj

iemmustiane said:


> So which version should I be going for? Any idea how these sound compared to the monks?




I have the monks and tomahawks... tomahawk all the way. The monks are very dark sounding, to the point i find them boring. Nice bass but thats about it, my supplied note 4 iems sound better. Its my opinion so take it with a grain of salt. Want a forward fun engaging sound go for the tomahawks.


----------



## Saoshyant

Has anyone tried the Mojito with the Fiio K1?  I'm trying to think of a compact Dac/Amp to use with a tablet, so something like the Schiit Fulla, Fiio K1 or Audioquest Dragonfly.  The Mojo and Fiio X5 while quite lovely sounding, might be a bit too big, and my Beyerdynamic A200P seems to be refusing to work with PC now, although it has no issues with my phone at least.


----------



## ClieOS

saoshyant said:


> Has anyone tried the Mojito with the Fiio K1?  I'm trying to think of a compact Dac/Amp to use with a tablet, so something like the Schiit Fulla, Fiio K1 or Audioquest Dragonfly.  The Mojo and Fiio X5 while quite lovely sounding, might be a bit too big, and my Beyerdynamic A200P seems to be refusing to work with PC now, although it has no issues with my phone at least.


 
  
 Mojito sounds slightly bright with K1, and get even brighter with Fulla. But if you are willing to spend $100, I can recommend Encore mDSD. It uses the same DAC chip as Dragonfly Black, and goes quite well with Mojito.


----------



## Saoshyant

@ClieOS Hmm, I will most certainly read up on that, and it's within my price range.  Now I just have to find out who's selling it.
  
 Nevermind, found someone in the US who sells it.  I'll have to read up on it and weigh my options.  Honestly though, even straight off the tablet the Mojito sounds nice.


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> @ClieOS
> Hmm, I will most certainly read up on that, and it's within my price range.  Now I just have to find out who's selling it.
> 
> Nevermind, found someone in the US who sells it.  I'll have to read up on it and weigh my options.  Honestly though, even straight off the tablet the Mojito sounds nice.


http://www.sonicunity.com/collections/encore/products/encore-mdsd


----------



## Tomasz2D

saoshyant said:


> Nevermind, found someone in the US who sells it.


 
  
 Isn't Indiegogo price still 75 USD for 1pc or 130 USD for 2 pcs?


----------



## Saoshyant

tomasz2d said:


> Isn't Indiegogo price still 75 USD for 1pc or 130 USD for 2 pcs?




I believe that is no longer active, but hopefully I'm mistaken.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Out of all the random earbuds I have purchased lately, most have been decent.  Though there is one complete dud.
  
 Whatever you do, please do not buy this earbud, it is muddy, veiled and utter crap.  One of the drivers even had an issue.  Build is SUPER cheap.  Oh well, not a complete waste of money, at least I can warn all of you about it. 
  
 德国正宗 监听发烧耳塞 高素质 高解析 完美人声 大声场 MX760
  
 https://world.taobao.com/item/521909009967.html
  

  
 --


----------



## golov17

OK, Thx


----------



## ClieOS

bloodypenguin said:


> Out of all the random earbuds I have purchased lately, most have been decent.  Though there is one complete dud.
> 
> Whatever you do, please do not buy this earbud, it is muddy, veiled and utter crap.  One of the drivers even had an issue.  Build is SUPER cheap.  Oh well, not a complete waste of money, at least I can warn all of you about it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Should have asked around here first. That particular earbuds have already earned a real bad rep. among the Chinese. See the suspicious term "德国正宗"? It means  'authentically German', which is an common phishing term used by shady Taobao seller to lure in the unsuspicious Chinese buyer (*because like many other places, many Chinese blindly believe German = quality). Also, the are several cheap DAP from unknown factories keep marketing themselves as 'authentically German' audiophile player or 'German design' - that is where you know things are too good to be true, especially since real Germans never heard of them before. It used to be 'authentically Japan' / 'Japanese design' a decade ago, but these days the general Chinese population doesn't hold Japanese's products to that high an esteem anymore.


----------



## Tympan

It may need to be burned in. Have you given it 1000+ hrs burn in before coming to this conclusion? 
 Could be that everyone is too impatient...


----------



## Tympan

... on the other hand, I finally got to listen to Cygnus all day and I am VERY impressed to say the least!!!


----------



## Tympan

Hey ClieOS, if the fake German earbuds are that bad, maybe you can add it to your category 5 (the Bad)...
 I love this thread btw, I think I'm becoming an earbud head!


----------



## AndroidVageta

rggz said:


> Baldoor/Mrice need urgently release a new earbud with a good quality control, something like E100 MK2, v2, E200, with original tunning. It's a shame they have been downgraded the E100 and now we can't talk about them, because it's impossible match the opinions with different pairs with different SS on market.
> 
> My old pair still my fav overall, but the new ones just sounds "ok".


 
  
  


vapman said:


> I'd buy a handful of E100 successors in a second.
> 
> C'mon Baldoor don't let me down now


 
  
 Not gonna happen. I was in talks with Mrice (aka Baldoor) for weeks, even sent them a "good" pair of E100's (matches my reference review pair) and yeah...They said they couldn't find the driver differences and they haven't talked to me since which is odd considering how the rep I was talking too was very nice and sent me like 50 pairs to test (of which only two matched my review pair).
  
 So in other words, they tried to a degree, didn't feel like putting the effort into truly sorting the issue out, and now the possibility is dead. Sorry guys...and sorry they have one of the only three good pairs I had. Won't send them back either it seems...
  
 If anyone thinks they have a good pair let me know! Always interested in getting more.


----------



## vapman

**** that's too bad 
 I noticed Baldoor written on the box of some of my KZ's, maybe they'll come back one day with more earbells, we can hope...


----------



## Ymer

Hello there,

I'd like you guys to help me choose a good pair of earbuds to get into the earbud game.

I currently own Beyer Dt660/770/990, Sennheiser HD580/650, Grado Sr225 and Ety HF5/ER4, RE400, Vsonic VSD1S and a few other IEMs.

What would be a good starting point to experience earbuds? I have given them up long ago in favor of the ones mentioned avove. Also can't get a good fit with Apple Earbuds.

I listen to a lot of jazz, rock, some pop but my main thing is classical, especially vocal and opera.

What would you guys recommend? I've been thinking about something like a Tomahawk or Cygnus.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## vapman

ymer said:


> What would you guys recommend? I've been thinking about something like a Tomahawk or Cygnus.


 

 I'd probably go for the Monk and the Tomahawk, or the Monk and the Cygnus?
 Get the Cygnus if you don't like treble sparkle, get the Tomahawk if you do.


----------



## music4mhell

ymer said:


> Hello there,
> 
> I'd like you guys to help me choose a good pair of earbuds to get into the earbud game.
> 
> ...


 
 Zen 2


----------



## Saoshyant

Depending on your budget, there's also the Rose Mojito


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> Out of all the random earbuds I have purchased lately, most have been decent.  Though there is one complete dud.
> 
> Whatever you do, please do not buy this earbud, it is muddy, veiled and utter crap.  One of the drivers even had an issue.  Build is SUPER cheap.  Oh well, not a complete waste of money, at least I can warn all of you about it.
> 
> ...


 
 Oh god damn, so glad I did not pulled the trigger on those!


----------



## Tympan

ymer said:


> What would you guys recommend? I've been thinking about something like a Tomahawk or Cygnus.


 
  
 Haven't heard Tomahawk but I'll second Vapman on the Cygnus.
  
 I chose them as an intro to good earbuds mainly because I wanted an all-rounder easy to drive, balanced sounding, and comfy. 
 They sound awesome straight out of an iphone SE with just a tad of EQ. Very impressed.


----------



## vapman

I moved on from the Tomahawk quick, it seems people here either really love them and prefer them to the Monk or can't stand them and pass on them pretty much immediately.


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> I moved on from the Tomahawk quick, it seems people here either really love them and prefer them to the Monk or can't stand them and pass on them pretty much immediately.


 
 I also moved from Tomahawk quickly, i had used only 1/2 times.
 But i love the Ting


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> I also moved from Tomahawk quickly, i had used only 1/2 times.
> But i love the Ting


 

 I have SeaHf 400ohm coming soon, any day now, which I know you arguably like better than Zen 2.0.
 How do you think the Ting relates to all those, cygnus included?
 basically I want to know if it's worth owning, I bought a DK Jin and  I've been clearing out headphones so I don't know why I keep buying more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I bought a brand new set of Senn MX500 from Germany even so I could do a crazy mod and have a stock fresh set if I screw someting up.


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I also moved from Tomahawk quickly, i had used only 1/2 times.
> ...


 
 Seahf 400 Ohms bass is best in any earbud period. Even at low volume you feel the bass impact.
 Ting is more musical but it's a bit thin compare to others. Personally i don't use cygnus much.
 I use mostly either Zen 2 or Seahf 400. These have a heavy and thick sound which i enjoy more.
  
 I have ordered 75, 150, 200 Ohms impedance adapter, let see if i can improve Ting/Cygnus sound quality using those adapters.
 Recently i am enjoying Monk+ too. But in short Zen 2 is the all rounder. I always come back to Zen 2.


----------



## ClieOS

tympan said:


> Hey ClieOS, if the fake German earbuds are that bad, maybe you can add it to your category 5 (the Bad)...
> I love this thread btw, I think I'm becoming an earbud head!


 
  
 Life is going to be less than bearable if we paid too much attention to the bad stuff


----------



## Joy Boy

music4mhell said:


> Seahf 400 Ohms bass is best in any earbud period. Even at low volume you feel the bass impact.
> Ting is more musical but it's a bit thin compare to others. Personally i don't use cygnus much.
> I use mostly either Zen 2 or Seahf 400. These have a heavy and thick sound which i enjoy more.
> 
> ...



Just curious, have you ever compare seahf 400ohm to ve zen 1.0? Zen 1 said to be the best bass quality in earbud world, but since now comes seahf 400ohm as a competitor, i wonder wich one has the title now


----------



## golov17

Someone has jumped into this Musicmaker?


----------



## golov17

http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=0.0.0.0&id=531301746040
http://s.aliexpress.com/qie6B36v


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> How do you think the Ting relates to all those, cygnus included?




Ting is basically like Tomahawk but still different. While Tomahawk is right up at the stage moshing and headbanging, Ting is much further back in the audience, giving you a more distanced and analytical experience. I love 'em both.

Went to E earphone in Akihabara the other day and tried Dunu Alpha 1 and Ostry KC08. Out of my Cowon D2 I prefered Tomahawk by miles. I did try the Dunu and Ostry without foams, though. Still, I'll probably buy both. Or at least KC08. I decided to buy another second hand Kenwood Media keg , the flagship model from 2007. This cost me over $300, so I'll have to delay some earbud purchases...


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> Someone has jumped into this Musicmaker?




In a month or two. Too long, I suppose?


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> In a month or two. Too long, I suppose?


300 Ohm?


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> 300 Ohm?




Yeah. Have to try this one as well!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Here is what I have found about the regarding the Tomahawks and Cygnus

 The Hawks have wider soundstage
 The Cyny not as wide but has nice imaging
  
 At least to my ears


----------



## Tympan

clieos said:


> Life is going to be less than bearable if we paid too much attention to the bad stuff


 

 True but the "German made quality" angle is so devious. In the worst cases scenarios, I've seen men getting ruined (Tera player)


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> Someone has jumped into this Musicmaker?


 
  
 Already have a pair ordered from Taobao, with the silver plated single crystal copper cable option. Should be here by early next week, Saturday if really lucky.
  


tympan said:


> True but the "German made quality" angle is so devious. In the worst cases scenarios, I've seen men getting ruined (Tera player)


 
  
 Haha, at least the 'German made' part of the claim is true with Tera player


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Already have a pair ordered from Taobao, with the silver plated single crystal copper cable option. Should be here by early next week, Saturday if really lucky.


 
 Sifu, can you kindly share some impressions of the 300Ohms from Toneking and compare them to the cygnus once you received them?
  
 Thank-you


----------



## iemmustiane

Will a macbook pro or iphone 6 be able to drive the tomahawks? Also how much better can I expect them and the monks to be compared the apple earpods?


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> Sifu, can you kindly share some impressions of the 300Ohms from Toneking and compare them to the cygnus once you received them?
> 
> Thank-you


 
  
  
 Sure.
  


iemmustiane said:


> Will a macbook pro or iphone 6 be able to drive the tomahawks? Also how much better can I expect them and the monks to be compared the apple earpods?


 
  
 Tomahawk is pretty easy to drive, so I don't really see a problem there. Besides, Apple's gears usually have quite a decent power output.
  
 I'll say Monk is a decent upgrade but you are still more or less in the same ballpark. Tomahawk on the other hand is next level ball game.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Sure.


 
 Thanks!


----------



## iemmustiane

clieos said:


> Sure.
> 
> 
> Tomahawk is pretty easy to drive, so I don't really see a problem there. Besides, Apple's gears usually have quite a decent power output.
> ...


 

 Thanks man! Greatly appreciated!


----------



## Tomasz2D

music4mhell said:


> I also moved from Tomahawk quickly, i had used only 1/2 times.
> But i love the Ting


 
 Oh yeah, same here. Tomahawk has some kind of low resolution sound, dry and not very musical. I don't like it. It is also quite boring. Ting on the other hand is OK. I like Ting. It is musical and it has overall nice vocal/instruments balance. But I must be strange because I do not like Cygnus either. Although I appreciate the bass parts they provide and quite analitical overall presentation I can't stand how untrue vocals are. And cymbals, hi-hats are even worse. Or maybe there is something wrong with my Cygnus pair.


----------



## Tympan

tomasz2d said:


> But I must be strange because I do not like Cygnus either. Although I appreciate the bass parts they provide and quite analitical overall presentation I can't stand how untrue vocals are. And cymbals, hi-hats are even worse. Or maybe there is something wrong with my Cygnus pair.


 
  
 What source are you using with them?


----------



## kvad

iemmustiane said:


> Will a macbook pro or iphone 6 be able to drive the tomahawks? Also how much better can I expect them and the monks to be compared the apple earpods?


 
  
 I did a quick test from an iPod Touch 5th gen (not sure if the iPhone 6 deviates much from it) and agree with ClieOS. The Monk Plus is an upgrade, but a smaller one. If you manage to get a good fit though, the bass is much deeper. The Tomahawk on the other hand is a substantial step up - can't imagine you won't be happy with it coming from the earpods (which in themselves are pretty good for what they are). Doing the same test off a Fiio E10 from my laptop the differences are larger. If anything the earpods sound better from the iPod, while both the Monk Plus and Tomahawk improves further coming from the E10.


----------



## Tomasz2D

tympan said:


> What source are you using with them?


 
 Most often it is Tidal 320kbps AAC from Galaxy S6 or iPad mini straight or via Chord Mojo.


----------



## vapman

Thanks for the Ting impressions guys! I keep looking at them and being undecided on them.

Does anyone have that picture guide on how to open Monk housing, I have 1 monk to recable and 1 sennheiser mx500 to recable, and far as I can tell they use the same mold.


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> Oh yeah, same here. Tomahawk has some kind of low resolution sound, dry and not very musical. I don't like it. It is also quite boring. Ting on the other hand is OK. I like Ting. It is musical and it has overall nice vocal/instruments balance. But I must be strange because I do not like Cygnus either. Although I appreciate the bass parts they provide and quite analitical overall presentation I can't stand how untrue vocals are. And cymbals, hi-hats are even worse. Or maybe there is something wrong with my Cygnus pair.




If you have burned in for 40+ hours and still feel the treble is unnatural. I'd think it's more liekly you don't enjoy the signature then they're faulty, but I wouldn't know. Move on from them. There are buds like Asura in the price range and I've never heard of anybody NOT loving their zen.


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> NOT loving their zen.


 
  
 Sure I love Zen


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> Sure I love Zen



I love Zen but I love VE Zen 2.0 too


----------



## Tympan

tomasz2d said:


> Most often it is Tidal 320kbps AAC from Galaxy S6 or iPad mini straight or via Chord Mojo.


 

 When I first got the Cygnus, I thought they were overly detailed, a bit bright, quite unnatural and sibilant with voices. 
 Yet, some burn in happened... I played with EQ (accudio Pro app), some foams/fit and quickly found an excellent sound signature to my ears.
 Went from "too much" to "satisfied beyond original expectations"
  
  
 Switching back to flat EQ is still too much for me but I love them EQed for sure.
  
 Edit: had had to readjust EQ over burning time as frequencies are getting smoothed out and tighter seems like!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I've never tried Zen or Zen 2.0...   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 --


----------



## iemmustiane

Wait so from recent comments and from ones I've seen in the monk thread, it seems pretty split how people feel about the tomahawks? If the apple earpods are a bit dark and smooth, how are the tomahawks?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Got home and the VE Monk+ and Asura 2.0 were waiting for me!  
  
 I gave a quick listen to the Asura 2.0 and they sound fantastic.  I've already started to let them lightly burn-in and I am looking forward to seeing how they mature over time.  

 I have not had a chance yet to listen to the VE Monk+, but I'm very curious how they will compare to the original Monk.
  
  
 --


----------



## kvad

iemmustiane said:


> Wait so from recent comments and from ones I've seen in the monk thread, it seems pretty split how people feel about the tomahawks? If the apple earpods are a bit dark and smooth, how are the tomahawks?


 
  
 To me the Tomahawk is smoother, deeper and more spacious. The earpods I find can be a little harsh and lacks the good thump at the bottom. I do have a preference for darker and smoother sound though.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

kvad said:


> To me the Tomahawk is smoother, deeper and more spacious. The earpods I find can be a little harsh and lacks the good thump at the bottom. I do have a preference for darker and smoother sound though.


 
  
 To me, it is the way the Tomahawk stays so silky smooth, yet so clear in its details that really gets me.  Plus, I love the quality sub-bass as well.
  
 ..


----------



## vapman

bloodypenguin said:


> Got home and the VE Monk+ and Asura 2.0 were waiting for me!
> 
> I gave a quick listen to the Asura 2.0 and they sound fantastic.  I've already started to let them lightly burn-in and I am looking forward to seeing how they mature over time.
> 
> ...


 

 Curious if you also think the Monk+ is much more similar to the Asura 2.0 than the original monk?
  
 In other news I bought my SeaHf 400ohm on the 6th, it shipped on the 7th, and i'll have it tomorrow. That's crazy!!! Under a week from shipping time to get here from China, that's unheard of, and I'm still waiting on a set I bought in March from a seller in Japan to arrive!
  


iemmustiane said:


> Wait so from recent comments and from ones I've seen in the monk thread, it seems pretty split how people feel about the tomahawks? If the apple earpods are a bit dark and smooth, how are the tomahawks?


 
  
  
 I would call the tomahawks bright and smooth but with punch bass, so maybe more V signature than dark.


----------



## supplehope

vapman said:


> In other news I bought my SeaHf 400ohm on the 6th, it shipped on the 7th, and i'll have it tomorrow. That's crazy!!! Under a week from shipping time to get here from China, that's unheard of, and I'm still waiting on a set I bought in March from a seller in Japan to arrive!
> 
> I would call the tomahawks bright and smooth but with punch bass, so maybe more V signature than dark.




Can you compare the Seahf 400ohm with some of your favorite earbuds if possible (no rush)? Thanks and have fun!

Hmm based on your description, it seems that the Tomahawks are like KC08 but with even better mids. Maybe better soundstage and well? 

Just a guess. Wonder if either the Ting or the Tomahawk (quite different impressions from some fellows) may be for my taste more as I am quite sensitive on brightness, not that I need another one in my collection yet though.

Also, for me, the Monk+ is nothing more than really good for the money so far, but it's more bright than warm but still musical though with surprisingly good bass and highs. Have to hear the original Monks another day to find out the differences.


----------



## golov17

supplehope said:


> Can you compare the Seahf 400ohm with some of your favorite earbuds if possible (no rush)? Thanks and have fun!
> 
> Hmm based on your description, it seems that the Tomahawks are like KC08 but with even better mids. Maybe better soundstage and well?
> 
> ...


go to zen2.0


----------



## CingKrab

vapman said:


> In other news I bought my SeaHf 400ohm on the 6th, it shipped on the 7th, and i'll have it tomorrow. That's crazy!!! Under a week from shipping time to get here from China, that's unheard of, and I'm still waiting on a set I bought in March from a seller in Japan to arrive!




You lucky dog! Mine shipped on April 24, allegedly left China on the 26th, but no tracking updates since...


----------



## goldenSHK

supplehope said:


> Can you compare the Seahf 400ohm with some of your favorite earbuds if possible (no rush)? Thanks and have fun!
> 
> Hmm based on your description, it seems that the Tomahawks are like KC08 but with even better mids. Maybe better soundstage and well?
> 
> ...


 
 Ya the Monk+ has been a bit of a disappointment because it's much more bass light and bright than the original Monk. Kind of a mixed bag unfortunately like the Zen 1 vs 2. I prefer the Monk OG because what you give up in airy soundstage and brightness you get in bass and smoothness.


----------



## golov17

Norm buds


----------



## vapman

For you guys who don't like the Monk+ as much, have any of you heard the Asura 2.0, and what's your thoughts on it?
  
 My thoughts is the Monk+ is like a mini Asura 2.0 and I actually prefer it to the OG Monk which I find to be significantly thinner sounding and sharper treble.
  
 IMO  I use nothing but my Zen 2.0 since I got them. Partially I am glad I waited as long as I did to get them, because I could appreciate how much better they were than everything else I used until then


----------



## WillTirta

So how about the mojito.. anyone can see the dofferent between the two cable that is given?


----------



## vapman

willtirta said:


> So how about the mojito.. anyone can see the dofferent between the two cable that is given?


 
 I did tons of A/B testing and could not hear any difference between the two cables.
 ClieOS said the same thing but said he did not do too much testing of the two cables.
 I tested them extensively, and I sold my set to @Saoshyant and I think he agrees (?)


----------



## WillTirta

vapman said:


> I did tons of A/B testing and could not hear any difference between the two cables.
> ClieOS said the same thing but said he did not do too much testing of the two cables.
> I tested them extensively, and I sold my set to @Saoshyant
> and I think he agrees (?)



You dont like the sound of mojito..?


----------



## golov17

willtirta said:


> You dont like the sound of mojito..?


it should please everyone?


----------



## vapman

willtirta said:


> You dont like the sound of mojito..?


 

 I do like it a lot!
 I never said I don't like the sound.
 I was just saying the Mojito sounds the same with both cables.


----------



## Tomasz2D

golov17 said:


> Norm buds


 
  
 Nice picture - very artistic. Is it nuclear power plant command console in the background?


----------



## WillTirta

vapman said:


> I do like it a lot!
> I never said I don't like the sound.
> I was just saying the Mojito sounds the same with both cables.



Haha i am asking the reason you sell it.. but i just read the reason of it in the previous page.. haha..


golov17 said:


> it should please everyone?



No definitely.. just asking lol..
I am really curious..mine will arrive soon..


----------



## vapman

willtirta said:


> Haha i am asking the reason you sell it.. but i just read the reason of it in the previous page.. haha..


 
 Ah, no problem, yeah I sold it because even though I thought it was better than Zen 2.0 in many ways, I liked the overall sound of Zen more.
 In fact I sold about a dozen of my earbuds since getting the Zen, but I always think the Mojito has clearer & more neutral sound, incredibly detailed!
 I miss mine a lot.


----------



## Tomasz2D

tympan said:


> When I first got the Cygnus, I thought they were overly detailed, a bit bright, quite unnatural and sibilant with voices.
> Yet, some burn in happened... I played with EQ (accudio Pro app), some foams/fit and quickly found an excellent sound signature to my ears.
> Went from "too much" to "satisfied beyond original expectations"
> 
> ...


 
  
 Cygnus is very comfortable and has this great-great cable so I am not gonna give up on it so quickly and for sure I will still try it multiple times with different albums. So do you still EQ Cygnus? Why and how?


----------



## Townyj

So i use the monk plus without foams and its a hell of alot better now. Not so dark sounding, more enjoyable  ive been trying the rubber rings but it makes them a tad to big now :/


----------



## Saoshyant

I can't hear any difference in the two Mojito cables, so it comes down to the aesthetics of the black cable vs the possible durability increase of the white cable.


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> Nice picture - very artistic. Is it nuclear power plant command console in the background?


haha, lol


----------



## stilleh

The more earbuds I listen to, the more I love my Zen 2.0...


----------



## stilleh

tomasz2d said:


> Nice picture - very artistic. Is it nuclear power plant command console in the background?


 
 Didn´t you know? Oleg is the sole guardian of the Russain nuclear launch codes... :B


----------



## music4mhell

stilleh said:


> The more earbuds I listen to, the more I love my Zen 2.0...


 
 True, i feel the same. Zen 2 has some magical midas sound.


----------



## Tomasz2D

stilleh said:


> Didn´t you know? Oleg is the sole guardian of the Russain nuclear launch codes... :B


 
 That would be very good news and let it last like this forever. True earbuds and music lover can't be bad person.


----------



## goldenSHK

vapman said:


> For you guys who don't like the Monk+ as much, have any of you heard the Asura 2.0, and what's your thoughts on it?
> 
> My thoughts is the Monk+ is like a mini Asura 2.0 and I actually prefer it to the OG Monk which I find to be significantly thinner sounding and sharper treble.
> 
> IMO  I use nothing but my Zen 2.0 since I got them. Partially I am glad I waited as long as I did to get them, because I could appreciate how much better they were than everything else I used until then


 
 So this is exactly what I think verbatim except the last claim about the OG Monk. I basically agree the Monk+ is a mini Asura 2.0. So if you like the Asura you will LOVE the Monk+. It is basically disposable Asuras for $5. In fact, I don't see what use the Asura 2.0 has in the lineup anymore because the Monk+ is basically decently close to it but at a much friendlier price. Anyone who can afford a $70 earbud can probably afford a slightly more expensive earbud and just get the Zen 2. But the Monk+ is a different price bracket, they are expendable. 

 I don't agree though that the OG Monk is thinner. It is very clearly to my ears warmer and has deeper bass than the Monk+ but the highs are a bit harsher/more V shaped sound than the Monk+ so maybe it might feel thinner if you like loud music, but they definitely have more bass than the Monk+ in terms of presence and quantity. 
  
 I also prefer the Zen to every other VE earbud so that's no surprise there.


----------



## ZerkMeister

So all of you Zen 2.0 lovers, tell me which one did you get? 
Normal, Balanced, Cardas Cable Version?


----------



## stilleh

I have the black Cardas cable version.


----------



## vapman

goldenshk said:


> So this is exactly what I think verbatim except the last claim about the OG Monk. I basically agree the Monk+ is a mini Asura 2.0. So if you like the Asura you will LOVE the Monk+. It is basically disposable Asuras for $5. In fact, I don't see what use the Asura 2.0 has in the lineup anymore because the Monk+ is basically decently close to it but at a much friendlier price. Anyone who can afford a $70 earbud can probably afford a slightly more expensive earbud and just get the Zen 2. But the Monk+ is a different price bracket, they are expendable.
> 
> I don't agree though that the OG Monk is thinner. It is very clearly to my ears warmer and has deeper bass than the Monk+ but the highs are a bit harsher/more V shaped sound than the Monk+ so maybe it might feel thinner if you like loud music, but they definitely have more bass than the Monk+ in terms of presence and quantity.
> 
> I also prefer the Zen to every other VE earbud so that's no surprise there.


 

 I will give the OG Monk another shot today. I didn't do much litsening after getting my Zen and Monk+'s to be honest, maybe a minute  or two at most (shameful I know) but I was so eager to hear my new buds.
  
 In retrospect the high being sharper/more V shaped is I think what led me to be like "oh it's thinner, okay, back to the pile you go" with the OG monks. today i'll bust em out again and see what I think.
  
 Anyway, i'm also 100% with you that I felt like the Asura 2.0 was almost redundant with the Monk+ in the lineup.
  
 For now, the SeaHf made it in, so I gotta do some listening so I can get a review in!


----------



## goldenSHK

vapman said:


> I will give the OG Monk another shot today. I didn't do much litsening after getting my Zen and Monk+'s to be honest, maybe a minute  or two at most (shameful I know) but I was so eager to hear my new buds.
> 
> In retrospect the high being sharper/more V shaped is I think what led me to be like "oh it's thinner, okay, back to the pile you go" with the OG monks. today i'll bust em out again and see what I think.
> 
> ...


 
 If you play some decently bass heavy music and switch back and forth with the OG monk and monk+ it becomes decently obviousl. 
  
 The SeaHF 400ohm? People say that has better bass than the Zen 2.0 so please let us know what you think asap!


----------



## vapman

goldenshk said:


> If you play some decently bass heavy music and switch back and forth with the OG monk and monk+ it becomes decently obviousl.
> 
> The SeaHF 400ohm? People say that has better bass than the Zen 2.0 so please let us know what you think asap!


 

 I almost exclusively listen to bass heavy music, haha, so yes for sure!
 Although I have to admit... my Monk+ vs OG Monk test was actually done on a PS Vita... so nothing bassy at all. Just video games.
 I'll post 400ohm thoughts soon as I get a little listening in, especially bass related ( I am a card-holding basshead after all! )
  
 I usually don't believe in burn in but all these new earbuds that have notable differences after some arbitrary double digit amount of hours.... I'll give them a day to "burn in" before commenting on them, and note if they've changed in that time or not,
  


zerkmeister said:


> So all of you Zen 2.0 lovers, tell me which one did you get?
> Normal, Balanced, Cardas Cable Version?


 
  
  
 I forgot i didn't answer this. Normal, I don't have any balanced amps. One day i will get the Cardas Black version though, maybe in a few years.


----------



## Tympan

tomasz2d said:


> So do you still EQ Cygnus? Why and how?


 
  
 Yes, still EQing the Cygnus. But I'm finding everyday, I feel a need to readjust the EQ closer and closer to a flat frequency as they are burning in.
 I started with an EQ all over the place, reducing quite a few db between 2Khz  and 7Khz to tame the sibilance produced by the voices. I also added a lot of bass to compensate from the poor fit I had at first (they are very comfy but wouldn't stay pressed against my ears, consequently producing lighter bass than what they can really do when properly positioned)
  
 They have about 40 hrs of burn in by now (still young). 
 About the fit, I found that using a very thin foam tames the highs a tiny bit while adding earhoox helps me keep them in place... and last but not least, adding a Hiegi thick foam donut on top of those two adds a little bass and comfort/stability to each earbud. 
  
 Cygnus are my first serious earbuds (had earpods, Hisoundaudio, and B&O A8 before) and since I have not heard any of the other big boys, I must say, Cygnus sound as good as I thought possible for earbuds already, given some patience and little tweaks here and there. 
  

  
 just noticed I have the earhoox mounted backward!


----------



## vapman

Teaser picture feat. Xduoo X3 

So far they are very favorable and seems as though it has a shot to hang with the Big Boys.

Yes I'm using a 400 ohm out of the headphone jack, the X3 has a nice strong amp, but the tube amp is just warming up


----------



## golov17

I use ordinary Zen2.0 foamless with rubber rings and Shozy Cygnus with rubber rings with Monk Plus foams. Good.


----------



## vapman

SeaHf 400ohm sounds kind of similar to in between Cygnus and OG Monks. if I have to compare to any other earbud I know. I am very much reminded of the Aurisonics 2.0 while using these actually.
  
 much more V shaped than Zen 2.0... actually kind of similar to the Mojito but I don't have it any more so I have to go on memory.
  
 When amped, it has slightly better bass than Zen. Just slightly. i think it can hit just a bit lower than the Zen can. On bass heavy tracks it has a bit more sub bass. However Zen has a much stronger mid bass, whereas the midrange sound scooped out on the SeaHf by comparison.
  
 SeaHf 400ohm has great sub bass response, probably the best I've heard in an earbud, but I still prefer the Zen 2.0's sound personally. These are good but they are a bit too "V" shaped for me, at least too much for me to prefer them to the Zen. The overall sound is not as smooth as the Cygnus, the SeaHf is more raw sounding. Some may find it to have a slightly aggressive sound signature. the treble is not sibilant for how "V" shaped the signature is.
  
 The cable is nowhere near as nice as the Cygnus cable.. actually I probably would have said this cable was pretty good if I never knew the Cygnus cable 
  
 The housing isn't too impressive, same as the Monk, but white. They aren't too exciting looking.
  
 I will probably keep them. They won't be my main earbud and I definitely don't consider it to be even in the same league as the Zen 2.0 personally but I think it's a very worthy competitor to other sub-$100 earbuds. Of course an amp is highly recommended even though my Xduoo X3 was able to drive them, I had to turn volume to 80 where I usually use 50-55.
  
 IF you use an amp I might recommend them over a Cygnus unless you don't like the idea of a "V" signature or you prefer smoothness to the extra bass punch. Also if you listen to a lot of vocal stuff you'll prefer a different earbud, vocals aren't the SeaHf's specialty at all.


----------



## rymd

Anyone with both the Seahf 320/400 and KC08 that can compare the two? All this talk about amazing bass response has me curious enough to buy one for fun.


----------



## vapman

I've  been curious about the KC08 sound and I'd love to try the 320ohm SeaHf for comparison, but I'm not made of money 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 If anyone wants to hook me up with a set to review and compare to the rest.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I thought the KC08 was relatively bass light and I only keep things with heavy bass impact and refinement. I could be very wrong. I have kind of overlooked the KC08 and it never interested me.


----------



## htemyz

For the people who owns the mojito, could you compare the size and fit to more common earbuds(monks, Cygnus,..)? I'm a bit concerned as I have rather small ears. Thanks


----------



## Saoshyant

I'll try to take comparative pics for Mojito size when I get home.


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> I've  been curious about the KC08 sound and I'd love to try the 320ohm SeaHf for comparison, but I'm not made of money
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 KC08 has very bad mids, i never use KC08, but it has best Bass and treble , but no mids  i had used kc08 only 3/4 times max in last 2 months.


----------



## vapman

htemyz said:


> For the people who owns the mojito, could you compare the size and fit to more common earbuds(monks, Cygnus,..)? I'm a bit concerned as I have rather small ears. Thanks


 

 It's bigger. Imagine monk + rubber foam + foams.
  
  


music4mhell said:


> KC08 has very bad mids, i never use KC08, but it has best Bass and treble , but no mids  i had used kc08 only 3/4 times max in last 2 months.


 

 Hmm, honestly sounds kinda similar to the SeaHf.... no mids. Great bass, nice treble, overall good sound, but not much in the way of mids. That said, the SeaHf sound awful similar to my Yamaha HS8 monitors.


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> htemyz said:
> 
> 
> > For the people who owns the mojito, could you compare the size and fit to more common earbuds(monks, Cygnus,..)? I'm a bit concerned as I have rather small ears. Thanks
> ...


 
 Kc08 has 50% of mids in Seahf 400. So u can guess how much mids are present.


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> Kc08 has 50% of mids in Seahf 400. So u can guess how much mids are present.


 




 not for me!!!
  
 edit: Just switched to full foams with SeaHf 400, more bass impact, very nice. highs still a bit strong for me but can EQ them down.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> not for me!!!
> 
> edit: Just switched to full foams with SeaHf 400, more bass impact, very nice. highs still a bit strong for me but can EQ them down.


 
 Sir Vapman, may I kindly know which version of the 400Ohm did you get?
  
 According to my understanding (which may need clarification from ClieOS) there are a few version of the 400Ohm:

 1) Earphone association 400 Ohm (G 400)
 2) Earphone association 400 Ohm (In house cable, 3.5mm jack, tunning)
 3) TY Earphone 400 Ohm (Supposedly brighter tuned)   
 4) *Upcoming 400 Ohm earbud by TY Earphone (newly tuned)


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> Sir Vapman, may I kindly know which version of the 400Ohm did you get?
> 
> According to my understanding (which may need clarification from ClieOS) there are a few version of the 400Ohm:
> 
> ...


 

 I didn't know there were multiple versions! And i'm not sure if mine is a Earphone Association or a TY Earphone.
  
 I got from this page and selected the 400ohm option:
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-Newest-Dark-Horse-G400-In-Ear-Earburd-HIFI-Headset-DIY-High-Impedance-Seahf-Headphones-Dynamic/32621560713.html


----------



## Joy Boy

What about seahf 400ohm vs zen 1.0 that said to have the best bass quality in earbud? Anyone ever tried to compare them? Just curious


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> I didn't know there were multiple versions! And i'm not sure if mine is a Earphone Association or a TY Earphone.
> 
> I got from this page and selected the 400ohm option:
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-Newest-Dark-Horse-G400-In-Ear-Earburd-HIFI-Headset-DIY-High-Impedance-Seahf-Headphones-Dynamic/32621560713.html


 
 Ah, thanks for the info mate.

 From the pictures, I guess what you have there is the original Earphone Association G400.


----------



## golov17

All my from HCK Seller on Ali  
http://s.aliexpress.com/6bUjueaA


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> Ah, thanks for the info mate.
> 
> From the pictures, I guess what you have there is the original Earphone Association G400.


 
 Where can you get the other versions? taobao I'm guessing?


----------



## Saoshyant

htemyz said:


> For the people who owns the mojito, could you compare the size and fit to more common earbuds(monks, Cygnus,..)? I'm a bit concerned as I have rather small ears. Thanks


 
  
  
 It occurs to me I should have removed the foams before taking a picture, but just got home from work so kind of tired.  Plus I'm also one of those people that has an infuriating time actually putting foams back on.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Quick Round-Up Photo of the Earbuds I am Currently Playing With:


  
 01 - *Monk*: The original $5.00 earbud.  I have to hold on to this one as I gave out all the others I bought as gifts.
  
 02 - *Asura 2.0*:  The short amount of time I have spent with it so far show some great clarity in the mids.
  
 03 - *Asura 1.0*:  A more neutral, smooth sound.  Good all around earbud.

 04 - *Monk +*:  I have not had a chance to test it out yet, but curious how it compares to the original Monk.

 05 - *FAREAL H-MX500*: After giving these a fair amount of burn in, I'm not really enjoying the sharp highs.

 06 - *Elibud Sabia*:  Out of the box, that have an easy going, fun signature.  I look forward to spending more time with them.

 07 - *Suvov S20*:  Great budget earbuds with some wicked sub-bass, with a decent amount of detail and soundstage. 
  
 08 - *Vido​原道*:  Another fun budget earbud with good bass.  Also has a microphone and volume control.  Great for travel.

 09 - *Earbud Thailand BOE*:  Quality earbud for the price.  Smooth, sound signature with great detail. 

 10 - *HIFIKIWI H1*:  I need to make more time for these, so far I am liking what I am hearing.  Another fun budget

 11 - *MusicMaker Ting*:  Oh yeah, master class earbud for under $100.  Neutral and accurate.

 12 - *MusicMaker Tomahawk*:  I love it, but others may not like the unique sound.  It is ultra clear in its presentation.

 13 - *noSounD Recessed*:  DIY earbud from Wong Kuan Wae, tuned for midrange + clarity and a little bass.  Review to come.

 14 - *noSounD Blur*:  Another DIY earbud from Wong Kuan Wae, tuned for clarity, vocals and soundstage.  Review to come as well. 

 --


----------



## golov17

New toys  
http://s.aliexpress.com/BVrYJVVn

http://s.aliexpress.com/q6NVRFva

http://s.aliexpress.com/JFzuABb2


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> New toys


 
  
  
 I've been very curious about the Boarseman.  I look forward to your impressions.


----------



## Saoshyant

I really wish I still had a pair of AKG K318.  I remember really liking the treble and mids on them, although the bass very light.  I probably should have picked up some foams for them to help with that.  Nowadays the price on them is horrendous.  I used to be able to pick up a pair for I think $20-25 or so, and now it's $80+.  They did offer one of the better car headphone experiences as far as call clarity and lack of isolation so I could hear without concern of missing something.  Really, I should track down a quality earbud with a mic.  My current driving earbud is the Marshall Minor, and frankly I am underwhelmed with the sound.


----------



## golov17

K





saoshyant said:


> I really wish I still had a pair of AKG K318.  I remember really liking the treble and mids on them, although the bass very light.  I probably should have picked up some foams for them to help with that.  Nowadays the price on them is horrendous.  I used to be able to pick up a pair for I think $20-25 or so, and now it's $80+.  They did offer one of the better car headphone experiences as far as call clarity and lack of isolation so I could hear without concern of missing something.  Really, I should track down a quality earbud with a mic.  My current driving earbud is the Marshall Minor, and frankly I am underwhelmed with the sound.


K319 better


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Few Earbud pictures I took tonight:


  

  
 --


----------



## Saoshyant

golov17 said:


> K
> K319 better


 
 Something tells me for an earbud with a mic, you might recommend one of the Edifiers.  Either that, or some obscure Chinese earbud that I'm unaware exists!


----------



## golov17

AKG K318


----------



## Saoshyant

Gah, I had that coming!  My simplest solution will probably be to find a 2 pin detachable cable with mic, like maybe https://www.64audio.com/product/Cable-with-Mic


----------



## goldenSHK

vapman said:


> SeaHf 400ohm sounds kind of similar to in between Cygnus and OG Monks. if I have to compare to any other earbud I know. I am very much reminded of the Aurisonics 2.0 while using these actually.
> 
> much more V shaped than Zen 2.0... actually kind of similar to the Mojito but I don't have it any more so I have to go on memory.
> 
> ...


 
 Noticed you decided to put them up for sale anyway. I'm tempted, but starting to have too many earbuds to know what to do with. But the fact that you said they have better bass than the Zen 2.0 really has me intrigued.


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> Gah, I had that coming!  My simplest solution will probably be to find a 2 pin detachable cable with mic, like maybe https://www.64audio.com/product/Cable-with-Mic


 AKG Y16A


----------



## vapman

goldenshk said:


> Noticed you decided to put them up for sale anyway. I'm tempted, but starting to have too many earbuds to know what to do with. But the fact that you said they have better bass than the Zen 2.0 really has me intrigued.


 

 I probably will close it and keep them, that's why I didn't mention it in here. They might actually be one I want to keep even after cutting down severely - I have an unmanagable collection at this point.
  
 The bass on SeaHf 400 is actually a lot better but it's missing midrange and mid bass completely compared to the zen 2.0, so they complement each other nicely, and they are very energetic sounding.


----------



## music4mhell

saoshyant said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > K
> ...


 
 AWEI ES11, better than Edifiers


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> AWEI ES11, better than Edifiers


I like it, but a lot of defective


----------



## golov17

Remax RM-303 High Quality Pure Music Earphone Headphone 3.5MM For All Kinds OF Phones/Tablet PC/MP3/4 For Samsung /iPhone/Ipad
 http://s.aliexpress.com/yEbMJF3A


----------



## Saoshyant

golov17 said:


> Remax RM-303 High Quality Pure Music Earphone Headphone 3.5MM For All Kinds OF Phones/Tablet PC/MP3/4 For Samsung /iPhone/Ipad
> http://s.aliexpress.com/yEbMJF3A


 
  
 What's your opinion on the sound?


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> What's your opinion on the sound?


good , very well sub-bass, 
a little bit angry ringing sound, but very interesting buds


----------



## Saoshyant

Hmm, for the price, I should give it a shot!  Thankya sir @golov17


----------



## golov17

Good Luc





saoshyant said:


> Hmm, for the price, I should give it a shot!  Thankya sir @golov17


Good Luck


----------



## music4mhell

saoshyant said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > Remax RM-303 High Quality Pure Music Earphone Headphone 3.5MM For All Kinds OF Phones/Tablet PC/MP3/4 For Samsung /iPhone/Ipad
> ...


 
 Try AWEI ES11 once, it has balance sound with nice sub bass too


----------



## Saoshyant

This all reminds me, as nobody has tried out either of the detachable cable earbuds Easy has, I think I'll give them a try.  Here's hoping at least one of them is enjoyable!


----------



## B9Scrambler

golov17 said:


> Remax RM-303 High Quality Pure Music Earphone Headphone 3.5MM For All Kinds OF Phones/Tablet PC/MP3/4 For Samsung /iPhone/Ipad
> http://s.aliexpress.com/yEbMJF3A


 
  
 Cool. Same inline mic module as the Fidue A31s.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> Where can you get the other versions? taobao I'm guessing?


 
  
 Yup Taobao mate!


bloodypenguin said:


> Few Earbud pictures I took tonight:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Really looking forward to your review on the Blur buds. Very intrigue by them.

 As for the Eli Sabia, I would like to know how do you describe their sound compared to me, so I know how can I improve when giving impressions.


----------



## golov17

40 Ohm


----------



## rggz

I find that earbud stock from Samsung, they don't sound bad at all, overall naturally but the resolution is limited, what surprised me is the comfort IMO in the same level of Yuin shell, well done Samsung! 
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## chompy

music4mhell said:


> Kc08 has 50% of mids in Seahf 400. So u can guess how much mids are present.


 
  
 Really interesting, If KC08 weren’t so expensive and I hadn’t recently bought a pair of Tomahawks I would go for them. They seem to be a truly V shaped sound buds, which version do you have Chinese or International?
  
 And by the way, after a week with them, I’m loving Tomahawks… They very balanced, with nice bass and treble. I don’t find them bright, but I must say that unless my previous Edifier H185 I found my other buds had their highs quite rolled off (specially Edifier H180), also, compared to original Monks I found Tomahawks much better in every way, better bass, better highs, more clear mids (that’s what bothered me more about Monks sound, I found there’s some kind of emphasis in this area that made them sound congested to me) and what’s more important to me, they fit perfectly in my ears, been able to wear them continuously during hours, opposed to Monks which after some minutes started to hurt me.


----------



## music4mhell

chompy said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Kc08 has 50% of mids in Seahf 400. So u can guess how much mids are present.
> ...


 
 Mine is mostly chinese version, i bought it from penonaudio.


----------



## htemyz

saoshyant said:


> It occurs to me I should have removed the foams before taking a picture, but just got home from work so kind of tired.  Plus I'm also one of those people that has an infuriating time actually putting foams back on.



That's huge, I probably have to pass 
Btw, thanks for the photo


----------



## Saoshyant

Sure thing.  I know for me, the fit is really quite wonderful, even for it's size.  It just disappears in my ears, probably about on par with the comfort of the HD700.


----------



## music4mhell

htemyz said:


> saoshyant said:
> 
> 
> > It occurs to me I should have removed the foams before taking a picture, but just got home from work so kind of tired.  Plus I'm also one of those people that has an infuriating time actually putting foams back on.
> ...


 
 That's the reason i didn't buy the Mojito.
 For my ears tomahawk is also big


----------



## Saoshyant

music4mhell said:


> That's the reason i didn't buy the Mojito.
> For my ears tomahawk is also big


 
  
 I'm just glad it worked out for me.  I bought my pair off @vapman and ignored the possibility of it being too big.  Which is really good for me, as I think I have abnormally shaped ear canals and have an issue with IEMs often.  So, all in all, I'm really happy to have found an earbud that's amazingly comfortable and I'm really liking the sound of.


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> Sir Vapman, may I kindly know which version of the 400Ohm did you get?
> 
> According to my understanding (which may need clarification from ClieOS) there are a few version of the 400Ohm:
> 
> ...


 
  
 As far as I know,  1 is the original 400ohm by bugguy and sold under Headphone Association's Taobao store under partnership. But then the production has moved from bugguy to HA and HA has done some light tuning which result in 2. 3 is basically also coming from Bugguy, partnership with TY but with a different tuning than 1 or 2.
  
 Don't really know much about 4.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> As far as I know,  1 is the original 400ohm by bugguy and sold under Headphone Association's Taobao store under partnership. But then the production has moved from bugguy to HA and HA has done some light tuning which result in 2. 3 is basically also coming from Bugguy, partnership with TY but with a different tuning than 1 or 2.
> 
> Don't really know much about 4.


 
 Here the's link for the no 4 sifu
http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4501484528


----------



## Sylmar

chompy said:


> Really interesting, If KC08 weren’t so expensive and I hadn’t recently bought a pair of Tomahawks I would go for them. They seem to be a truly V shaped sound buds, which version do you have Chinese or International?
> 
> And by the way, after a week with them, I’m loving Tomahawks… They very balanced, with nice bass and treble. I don’t find them bright, but I must say that unless my previous Edifier H185 I found my other buds had their highs quite rolled off (specially Edifier H180), also, compared to original Monks I found Tomahawks much better in every way, better bass, better highs, more clear mids (that’s what bothered me more about Monks sound, I found there’s some kind of emphasis in this area that made them sound congested to me) and what’s more important to me, they fit perfectly in my ears, been able to wear them continuously during hours, opposed to Monks which after some minutes started to hurt me.


 
 I'm loving my Tomahawk's a lot too. They especially sound fantastic with the new Monks thicker foams that came with the extended package. If you bought those as well I would recommend putting those on Tomahawk.


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> Here the's link for the no 4 sifu
> http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4501484528


 
  
 For what I know, Bugguy tends to release quite a few of these prototypes at time and many never really made it to market (I got quite a few from him awhile back as well. It is his way of doing marketing research), so it is far from a sure thing.


----------



## CingKrab

clieos said:


> As far as I know,  1 is the original 400ohm by bugguy and sold under Headphone Association's Taobao store under partnership. But then the production has moved from bugguy to HA and HA has done some light tuning which result in 2. 3 is basically also coming from Bugguy, partnership with TY but with a different tuning than 1 or 2.
> 
> Don't really know much about 4.




Is there anywhere where one can purchase TY headphones?


----------



## ClieOS

cingkrab said:


> Is there anywhere where one can purchase TY headphones?


 
  
 If you have access to Taobao, here is their store: https://shop147984684.taobao.com
  
 If not, you might want to use an Taobao agent.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> For what I know, Bugguy tends to release quite a few of these prototypes at time and many never really made it to market (I got quite a few from him awhile back as well. It is his way of doing marketing research), so it is far from a sure thing.


 
 Ah I see I see. Thanks for the info once again sifu!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

The *Ting Light *showed up unexpected today.  Nice surprise!  
  
 It amazes me how different all the MusicMaker earbuds are, both in build and sound signature.  Though they all share the metal housings.

 The color sure pops.  The housing itself seems slightly smaller than the regular Ting and Tomahawk.  For me, this in turn makes it a tad harder for me to get a good seal.
  
 Sound wise, on first listen (no burn-in):  Big focus on mids and highs with the lows only showing themselves a small bit.  Super clean presentation without being the slightest bit sharp or fatiguing.  Soundstage seems decent, though I must spend more time with them before I finalize my conclusions.  
  
  
 Quick Cell Phone Picture:
  

  
 --


----------



## vapman

For you guys who are worried about the Mojito fitting, even though it's big, it fits pretty easily.
  
@Saoshyant Hifiman ES100 spotted in that group shot! Great bud, I miss it, although I have a feeling I'll enjoy recabled MX500 a bit more to be honest for a super flat  & unbiased sound.
  
 edit: The SeaHf 400's are keepers. Well worth my 70. I prefer it to the Cygnus. Don't know any other earbud with this aggressive & raw sound. Does it beat the Zen 2.0? Hell no. Does it complement the Zen well? Hell yes! If you have a Cygnus but always amp and find it to be a bit too sensitive to amplifying power, maybe check these out.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> If you have access to Taobao, here is their store: https://shop147984684.taobao.com
> 
> If not, you might want to use an Taobao agent.


a feature signature sound in them?


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> a feature signature sound in them?


 
  
 No idea. I tried to asked Bugguy about the signature difference but his seems to be a bit reluctant to explain further. I guess I'll have to pick a pair up in the future to find it out myself.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> No idea. I tried to asked Bugguy about the signature difference but his seems to be a bit reluctant to explain further. I guess I'll have to pick a pair up in the future to find it out myself.


wallet in cry


----------



## CingKrab

bloodypenguin said:


> Few Earbud pictures I took tonight:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What DAC is that?


----------



## Ymer

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm buying 2 pairs. A Monk and either aCygnus or a Tomahawk.

Important question: the apple earbuds don't fit me at all. I believe they are to small. There's never a proper "seal"/positioning. With that in mind, which of the above would probably fit me better? I might even all out and get Tomahawk and Cygnus.

Thanks again


----------



## ryanjsoo

ymer said:


> Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm buying 2 pairs. A Monk and either aCygnus or a Tomahawk.
> 
> Important question: the apple earbuds don't fit me at all. I believe they are to small. There's never a proper "seal"/positioning. With that in mind, which of the above would probably fit me better? I might even all out and get Tomahawk and Cygnus.
> 
> Thanks again


 
  
 All of them are vastly different from apple earbuds, the Monk`s are the largest followed by the Tomahawks and Cygnus which are roughly similar. The style of fit is much different however, the earpods are more semi-in-ear. You can use foams on all of these models for a better fit, I would recommend either donut foams or the blue and red foam covers that come with the Monk+, here`s some pics for further size comparison.


----------



## vapman

I forgot to mention before, some may find the SeaHf 400 to be quite veiled sounding. I was expecting it to be clearer going from a SZ2k to the SeaHf 400 but was kind of surprised when the SeaHf was the more veiled of the two.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Quick impression of TY-HiZ entry level earbud:
  

  
 Highs are well rounded
 Mids are just a tad....ever so slightly foward
 Bass is also quite good. At least I can feel some rumble. (But I wouldn't call it "quick")
 Sound Staging is okay, not terribly wide but good enough for an earbud at this price point but surprisingly do have some depth.
 Slightly "bright" I supposed

 Once again, I feel that this are Jack of All Trades type of earbud. 
 They do not excel (nor are they expected to given this price point).
 For me these earbuds are great for long listening sessions.

 Vs monks+, all I can say is there is no weird echo at higher frequencies. Soundstaging wise, monks + is wider. Details are almost the same for the earbuds.
 Safe to say the Tomahawks will outperform both of these buds (but it should, given the price point).

 Overall very good value for money considering I paid RMB25.10 for a pair but got 2 pairs instead hahaha.  

_*Kindly note, these are my personal impression and both earbuds have less than 10 hours of usage._


----------



## BloodyPenguin

cingkrab said:


> What DAC is that?


 
  
 SOUNDWARRIOR SWD-DA10, I should have a review of it up in a week or so.
  
 ..


----------



## Joy Boy

audionewbi3 said:


> Quick impression of TY-HiZ entry level earbud:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice share mate. 
Anyone ever tried T&Y bud with transparent housing like this one? And how's its sound? Thanks..


----------



## Ymer

Thank you!  


ryanjsoo said:


> All of them are vastly different from apple earbuds, the Monk`s are the largest followed by the Tomahawks and Cygnus which are roughly similar. The style of fit is much different however, the earpods are more semi-in-ear. You can use foams on all of these models for a better fit, I would recommend either donut foams or the blue and red foam covers that come with the Monk+, here`s some pics for further size comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## vapman

Despite the veil and lack of mid presence, I've been enjoying the SeaHf so much 
  
 Using it after about 30 minutes of Zen 2.0, it's clear they're not in the same league at all when it comes to detail, transparency or soundstage... but the Seahf 400 have been getting all my head time lately, they're really fun.


----------



## Ymer

vapman said:


> Despite the veil and lack of mid presence, I've been enjoying the SeaHf so much
> 
> Using it after about 30 minutes of Zen 2.0, it's clear they're not in the same league at all when it comes to detail, transparency or soundstage... but the Seahf 400 have been getting all my head time lately, they're really fun.




How does the Zen 2 compare to the Cygnus? I'm getting into earphones especially for the "was that sound here" effect and listen to classical mostly.


----------



## vapman

ymer said:


> How does the Zen 2 compare to the Cygnus? I'm getting into earphones especially for the "was that sound here" effect and listen to classical mostly.


 

 Depends on your source. With a powerful amp the Zen is the clear winner... with a less powerful or no amp the Cygnus is the clear winner.
  
 For that effect both the Cygnus and Zen 2 are very good choices... but if you have a halfway decent amp I say spend your money on the Zen 2 and you'll definitely get that effect.
  
 Just my recommendation - get a Monk+ with the expansion pack at the same time, you'll appreciate all the extra foams and the rubber rings.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

joy boy said:


> Nice share mate.


 
 Thanks mate!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Update on the Shozy Cygnus.
  
 After 230 hours (+ - 30 hours due to Dap battery outage), the mids of the Cygnus sounds much less congested, sound stage has also open up quite a bit (to my ears at least) and highs are crisper (again according to my ears).


----------



## vapman

Just finished my review of the SeaHf 400 ohm, hope you guys enjoy it.
  
 Monk, Monk+ and Zen 2.0 review coming really soon, probably today.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/seahf-400ohm/reviews/16002


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Just finished my review of the SeaHf 400 ohm, hope you guys enjoy it.
> 
> Monk, Monk+ and Zen 2.0 review coming really soon, probably today.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/seahf-400ohm/reviews/16002


 Nice, have you tried the beta Asura ever?


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> Nice, have you tried the beta Asura ever?


 
 no, i really wish


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> no, i really wish


Believe me, it's worth it if you can find them at someone. Especially for bass lovers


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> Believe me, it's worth it if you can find them at someone. Especially for bass lovers


 
 Thanks man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'll definitely get a set if I ever see them for sale


----------



## BloodyPenguin

It is so great to see all these earbud reviews now.  Really getting more and more popular now which will benefit us all with a larger selection to choose from now.
  
 I've got a bunch of reviews coming as well, whenever I can find some free time.
  
 ..


----------



## Saoshyant

In hopefully a couple weeks, I'll be receiving 2 detachable cable Earbuds. Here's hoping they show some promise! I should probably also order a decent MMCX cable while I'm at it


----------



## ClieOS

Here are some of my recent acquirement (*forgot to include the Tuner/调音师's earbuds):
  

  
 Pai Audio 3.14 Flat (or PR1?) and Fareal are both big surprise to me on how good they sound relative to how low they cost, especially on Fareal. Early impression is that, both of them should be solid upper Good if not lower Great. Monk+ is also a solid offering, more accurate than old Monk but also slightly less fun. Overall a small improvement to my ears. Lyra6 is an interesting sounding earbud, right now it is more of a middle Great earbud to me, will need more time to decide. The new Music Maker / MrZ / ToneKing TO300 just arrived a couple of hours ago - priced higher than Ting and Tomahawk, I had some high hope that it might be able to compete with the Champion (and for that, I opted for the more expensive silver plated single crystal cable version). But to my surprise and disappointment, I don't really like it over Ting or Tomahawk - it sort of sound like Ting without its edge and clarity. Still a pretty good earbuds overall, but more of a mid-to-lower Great tier to my ears. For now, I'll rather recommend Ting or Tomahawk over it. Will give it a few days of burn-in and see how it goes.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

clieos said:


> Here are some of my recent acquirement (*forgot to include the Tuner/调音师's earbuds):


 
  
 Nice!  Thanks for your thoughts.  
  
 Which Fareal bud is that?  I have the blue wire version and I am wondering if they have different sound signatures.
  
 ..


----------



## ClieOS

bloodypenguin said:


> Nice!  Thanks for your thoughts.
> 
> Which Fareal bud is that?  I have the blue wire version and I am wondering if they have different sound signatures.
> 
> ..


 
  
 AFAIK, there are blue cable and black cable version, though I really don't know if there is any difference between them. Mine is the black cable version.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

clieos said:


> AFAIK, there are blue cable and black cable version, though I really don't know if there is any difference between them. Mine is the black cable version.


 
  
 Thank you for the reply.  
  
 I think the Fareal is a decent bud for the price, but just not too my personal sound signature liking. Maybe just a tad too much in the highs for me to really enjoy them, thus why I am selling them.
  
  
 Also, thank you for your thoughts on the TO300, really had my eye on it, but now I think I may just skip it, as I already enjoy the Ting and Tomahawk a great deal.  I still have to spend more time with the Ting Light (green) before I post up more about them though.  
  
 --


----------



## yacobx

clieos said:


> Here are some of my recent acquirement (*forgot to include the Tuner/调音师's earbuds):
> 
> 
> 
> Pai Audio 3.14 Flat (or PR1?) and Fareal are both big surprise to me on how good they sound relative to how low they cost, especially on Fareal. Early impression is that, both of them should be solid upper Good if not lower Great. Monk+ is also a solid offering, more accurate than old Monk but also slightly less fun. Overall a small improvement to my ears. Lyra6 is an interesting sounding earbud, right now it is more of a middle Great earbud to me, will need more time to decide. The new Music Maker / MrZ / ToneKing TO300 just arrived a couple of hours ago - priced higher than Ting and Tomahawk, I had some high hope that it might be able to compete with the Champion (and for that, I opted for the more expensive silver plated single crystal cable version). But to my surprise and disappointment, I don't really like it over Ting or Tomahawk - it sort of sound like Ting without its edge and clarity. Still a pretty good earbuds overall, but more of a mid-to-lower Great tier to my ears. For now, I'll rather recommend Ting or Tomahawk over it. Will give it a few days of burn-in and see how it goes.


 

 I agree, the PR1 is a solid bud for the price


----------



## ZerkMeister

So I just got my Tomahawks today. They sound awesome. Im not very musically knowledgable but something feels off. Like the sound is being shredded or something is wrong with the headphones. Are there like test songs to verify this? lol
 Thanks.
 Edit: Im hearing weird buzzing from the left ear.


----------



## vapman

zerkmeister said:


> So I just got my Tomahawks today. They sound awesome. Im not very musically knowledgable but something feels off. Like the sound is being shredded or something is wrong with the headphones. Are there like test songs to verify this? lol
> Thanks.
> Edit: Im hearing weird buzzing from the left ear.


 

 Download Audacity, make a sine wave and play it back? It should be perfectly smooth & distortion free, unless your volume's way too high...


----------



## ZerkMeister

vapman said:


> Download Audacity, make a sine wave and play it back? It should be perfectly smooth & distortion free, unless your volume's way too high...


 
  
 Thanks a bunch for that. The right ear is fine but the left ear makes a horrible high pitched buzz. Darn.


----------



## rggz

zerkmeister said:


> Edit: Im hearing weird buzzing from the left ear.


 
  
 Maybe a blown driver problem? I've got that problem with my Cygnus, you can check here a video about my case and make a test here, also sometimes it's just a hair on foam.


----------



## vapman

Yeah I would say get it replaced, you should definitely be able to get it replaced for free.


----------



## golov17

zerkmeister said:


> So I just got my Tomahawks today. They sound awesome. Im not very musically knowledgable but something feels off. Like the sound is being shredded or something is wrong with the headphones. Are there like test songs to verify this? lol
> Thanks.
> Edit: Im hearing weird buzzing from the left ear.


from which vendor you bought?


----------



## ZerkMeister

rggz said:


> Maybe a blown driver problem? I've got that problem with my Cygnus, you can check here a video about my case and make a test here, also sometimes it's just a hair on foam.


 
 I wish. I took off the foam and made sure it was clean. The buzzing sound made my head hurt and using @vapman's test, it was clear that it was the left earbud. (By the way, it says your video is private.)
  


vapman said:


> Yeah I would say get it replaced, you should definitely be able to get it replaced for free.


 
 I shouldn't have to pay return shipping fees right? Since its defective, I got them today and found out they were defective right away.
 I even messaged the seller letting them know that it was defective from the get go.
  


golov17 said:


> from which vendor you bought?


 
  
Shenzhen HCkexin Electronic Technology Co., Ltd. on Aliexpress
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-Newest-HCK-MX1-In-Ear-Earphone-BA-Double-Unit-Headphone-HIFI-Fever-DIY-Headset-As/32591304629.html
 I got the zirconis one because it looked fancy lol.
  
  
  
 The worst and sad part is, the right ear works and the sound is so beautiful that I'm sad I have to wait for another pair after who knows how long this process takes to get to listen to them properly once and for all. It was so good I almost wanted to cry. Ok not really cry lol.


----------



## vapman

Ah, I bought my Mojito from them, but that's the only time I ordered from them. never had to do a dispute but hopefully they'll take care of you without having to go to a dispute.


----------



## ZerkMeister

vapman said:


> Ah, I bought my Mojito from them, but that's the only time I ordered from them. never had to do a dispute but hopefully they'll take care of you without having to go to a dispute.


 
 Yea, can only hope for the best. Thanks again for your help.


----------



## vapman

BTW that sine wave test is a good one, I only ever had to get a warranty replacement on one set of buds due to buzzing from one side, but that company (Hifiman) took care of me very quickly & professionally. It was out of warranty and I wasn't the original owner (bought them used) so I had to pay shipping to get it to them plus a service fee for them to repair it, but it was worth it. That's a entirely different situation from yours, I expect of course you should simply get a replacement unit.


----------



## ZerkMeister

vapman said:


> BTW that sine wave test is a good one, I only ever had to get a warranty replacement on one set of buds due to buzzing from one side, but that company (Hifiman) took care of me very quickly & professionally. It was out of warranty and I wasn't the original owner (bought them used) so I had to pay shipping to get it to them plus a service fee for them to repair it, but it was worth it. That's a entirely different situation from yours, I expect of course you should simply get a replacement unit.


 
  
 That is definitely awesome. I feel like the awesome part here is that they repaired it. Never knew there existed a repair service for headphones. Sounds tough to a novice like me to repair headphones. But then there are so many of you here with your diy projects and creating your own impedance adapters, and messing with all this electronic stuff. I mean I could put PCs together but soldering such tiny components together seems intimidating. Kudos to all the people who do that here.
  
 The hinderance in my audio nirvana journey : I want to get the the more expensive buds like Mojitos or Zen 2 but I fear the warranty issues. All the earbuds I have ever gotten shorted out without actual damage. Of course they werent good earbuds so I guess thats to be expected.
 I have had my VE Monks for a good 2-3 months now. I think the longest lasting buds so far maybe and still going strong. They are made so sturdy. So worth the $5 spent.


----------



## Ymer

Where should I buy the Monk+ from?


----------



## ZerkMeister

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Venture-Electronic-VE-MONK-earbud-earphone/32417311324.html
 When they hit $5 they are in stock, when they are marked up that means they are not in stock I believe.
 Make sure to read the description and don't forget to follow this thread:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/783669/venture-electronics-ve-monk-monk-plus-a-5-earbud-that-taking-the-world-by-storm


----------



## WillTirta

I have recieved my mojito..andd.. it sounds amazing for me..
First impression is..
1.it has superb soundstage
2. great seperation and detail
I can hear almost all instrument that is played in the song.. which some i have never noticed is there..
3. Great 3D imaging.. i can really hear the positioning of insturment that is played.. even in some song that usually do not empasize on instrument.. either it on the back right left.. 

maybe it is too much to say but it really felt like, i am a conductor that is standing in the middle of orchestra.. 


For some it might sound to thin.. and lack of bass..since it lower bass iss not that thick.. but for my stupid ear.. it sounds just perfect.. i love detail and wide soundstage..

Great.. mojito is my top of the list now..

The negative is the housing that is big..but can be compromised by using hiegi donut..


----------



## vapman

@WillTirta try them with VE Monk+ foam


----------



## WillTirta

vapman said:


> @WillTirta
> try them with VE Monk+ foam



Work beautifully.. hhaha
I just notice that the foam is quite open.. it feels like using donut foam with some more cushion..


----------



## Decommo

@vapman I got HiFiMan ES-100 yesterday and still burning....and it sounds Awesome. I believe that you mentioned that it great on this thread and I agree 100%. Thanks.


----------



## vapman

decommo said:


> @vapman I got HiFiMan ES-100 yesterday and still burning....and it sounds Awesome. I believe that you mentioned that it great on this thread and I agree 100%. Thanks.


 

 Great to hear it man. I regret selling mine. I just started to have an unmanageable collection


----------



## Townyj

Decisions.. i fricken love my tomahawk.. but the Ting has got my attention. Ugh. I actually dont enjoy the monk+ sound so if the zen 2.0 is similar i will have to pass. Has anyone got the Ting and Cygnus?


----------



## music4mhell

townyj said:


> Decisions.. i fricken love my tomahawk.. but the Ting has got my attention. Ugh. I actually dont enjoy the monk+ sound so if the zen 2.0 is similar i will have to pass. Has anyone got the Ting and Cygnus?


 
 Zen 2 is totally a diff ball game.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> Download Audacity, make a sine wave and play it back? It should be perfectly smooth & distortion free, unless your volume's way too high...


 
 May I kindly know in oder to test for such issue, what is the optimal value of Hz to locate for sine wave generation in Audacity? Or is there an optimal value to begin with?

 Thank-you


----------



## Townyj

music4mhell said:


> Zen 2 is totally a diff ball game.




To which earbud?


You have no idea how many times i have heard this exact sentence with headphones. Looks like ClieOS put the Cygnus above the Zen 2 balanced and Ting just below... sooo im dubious when someone says different league/ball game.


----------



## music4mhell

townyj said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Zen 2 is totally a diff ball game.
> ...


 
 Personally i prefer Zen 2 over Cygnus, for me Ting also come above Cygnus, Cygnus is bright to me


----------



## Townyj

music4mhell said:


> Personally i prefer Zen 2 over Cygnus, for me Ting also come above Cygnus, Cygnus is bright to me




Ok cheers.. ive been trying to decide between the Ting and Cygnus for a long time. The Zen is way to expensive imo. Im not a huge fan of dark signatures.


----------



## music4mhell

townyj said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Personally i prefer Zen 2 over Cygnus, for me Ting also come above Cygnus, Cygnus is bright to me
> ...


 
 Seahf/Dark horse 400 Ohms is super dark 
 But different !


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman said:


> Great to hear it man. I regret selling mine. I just started to have an unmanageable collection


 
 I really should give the ES100 a good listen and compare it to the Mojito.  I know the Mojito will outperform, but I'm mainly curious if the ES100 will still hold a purpose for me.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

I just tried sir @vapman's audacity sine wave feature at 60hz to check my pair of SeaHF 320Ohms V2
  
 Bloody hell! The driver on the left ear is busted (constant buzzing, like flies) from my previous mistake of switching amplifier gain settings on the fly.
  
 God Dammit! If only I could turn back time......if only I could......It was my first "serious" earbud.


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> May I kindly know in oder to test for such issue, what is the optimal value of Hz to locate for sine wave generation in Audacity? Or is there an optimal value to begin with?
> 
> 
> Thank-you




By default audacity will make a tone on the note Middle C which is fairly safe for testing. A sine wave cannot possibly damage your equipment unless it's being played back at absurd volumes.

If you want to be safe I would recommend to try the "sweep" generator - then you could have it make a tone that will go thru many frequencies instead of just one. You could even do 10hz thru 100khz if you wanted 

Edit: damn just saw your above post, very sorry to hear that man


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> I just tried sir @vapman
> 's audacity sine wave feature at 60hz to check my pair of SeaHF 320Ohms V2
> 
> Bloody hell! The driver on the left ear is busted (constant buzzing, like flies) from my previous mistake of switching amplifier gain settings on the fly.
> ...


damn


----------



## tayo15

Anybody have a link to a reputable seller of the tomahawks?


----------



## Alex CY

tayo15 said:


> Anybody have a link to a reputable seller of the tomahawks?


 

 Bought mine here 
 http://ru.aliexpress.com/item/2016-Newest-HCK-MX1-In-Ear-Earphone-BA-Double-Unit-Headphone-HIFI-Fever-DIY-Headset-As/32591304629.html (copy & paste link)
 and you can get -3$ coupon from this page http://ru.aliexpress.com/store/1825606


----------



## Tony Ng

many congrats to ClieOS for another fine piece of review....


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> By default audacity will make a tone on the note Middle C which is fairly safe for testing. A sine wave cannot possibly damage your equipment unless it's being played back at absurd volumes.
> 
> If you want to be safe I would recommend to try the "sweep" generator - then you could have it make a tone that will go thru many frequencies instead of just one. You could even do 10hz thru 100khz if you wanted
> 
> ...


 
  
  


golov17 said:


> damn


 
  
 There is no use crying over split milk I guess. I shall take this as an expensive lesson when dealing with any form of audio equipment.......

 On the bright side of things, at least I still own the V1s.


----------



## iano

tayo15 said:


> Anybody have a link to a reputable seller of the tomahawks?


 
 In addition to the other suggestion, I think several have mentioned this seller on aliexpress...that's where I have ordered mine. I have not received them yet (only ordered a few days ago), but I they have a good deal of positive feedback on the site, and have been mentioned on headfi. If you only want the tomahawk, you have to pick the option for that (they also offer the Ting and Tomahawk which is what I chose).
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-MrZ-Tomahawk-MusicMaker-Z-In-Ear-Earbuds-With-MusicMaker-Ting-In-Ear-Earphone-Alloy-Tune/32636595516.html


----------



## rggz

bloodypenguin said:


> Few Earbud pictures I took tonight:
> 
> 
> 
> --


 

 Hey @BloodyPenguin! Is this version with new bass tuning? I'm wondering buy them, do you think they worth $60 or outperform Tomahawks in vocals, resolution?  Thanks!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

rggz said:


> Hey @BloodyPenguin! Is this version with new bass tuning? I'm wondering buy them, do you think they worth $60 or outperform Tomahawks in vocals, resolution?  Thanks!


 


 Actually, the one with the purple ear tips is the "*Blur*" version, more for clarity and detail.  
  
 The "*Recessed*" version has a slightly darker sound signature and clear tips.  I actually was up to 3am last night working on a photo shoot of it for my full review.  Sadly, I was NOT happy with my results and I will have to plan something else and re-do the shoot again.
  
 I am working very hard to get reviews up as soon as I can.
  
  
 EDIT:
  
 Here is a picture I took of the *Blur* (purple) and *Recessed *(clear) side by side.
  
 Again, I was not happy with the 2 hours of photos I took and I will re-do them hopefully tonight.
  

  
  
  
 --


----------



## Joy Boy

audionewbi3 said:


> I just tried sir @vapman
> 's audacity sine wave feature at 60hz to check my pair of SeaHF 320Ohms V2
> 
> Bloody hell! The driver on the left ear is busted (constant buzzing, like flies) from my previous mistake of switching amplifier gain settings on the fly.
> ...



Really sorry to hear that 
I hope the still sell it and you can purchase it 1 more. Seahf 320ohm (white cable) is still the best of their line up till now, IMO


----------



## Joy Boy

2 bud just arrived, Hifiman es100 and T&Y Diy earbud.
Es100 has a natural sound, not warm/dark nor bright, just balance. But i have fitting issues. Does it sounds good if i try to change the rubber ring with just foam?

And for T&Y diy earbud, it's surprised me. Really! For $15 earbud, it sounds great. Worth every penny


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> Actually, the one with the purple ear tips is the "*Blur*" version, more for clarity and detail.
> 
> The "*Recessed*" version has a slightly darker sound signature and clear tips.  I actually was up to 3am last night working on a photo shoot of it for my full review.  Sadly, I was NOT happy with my results and I will have to plan something else and re-do the shoot again.
> 
> ...


 
  
 They look damn fine to me though! Keep up the good work mate!
  


joy boy said:


> Really sorry to hear that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Nonono, my SeaHF V1 is new and I have just received it and is currently in the process of burning it in.
 The busted SeaHf is the V2.
  
 Thanks anyways mate!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> They look damn fine to me though! Keep up the good work mate!


 
  
 Thank you, but I over-exposed the photos due to the clear housings.  I am going to try for a more natural approach for my next try.
  
  
 I am way too obsessed with my photography.  
  
  
  
 EDIT:  BTW, I have a bigger bass called the "Thin and Lean" version of the "*Blur*" on its way as well to confuse things even further.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ..


----------



## ryanjsoo

Anyone know a good place to buy the Shozy Cygnus? Is it a good upgrade from the Mrz Tomahawk? Thanks in advance.


----------



## golov17

ryanjsoo said:


> Anyone know a good place to buy the Shozy Cygnus? Is it a good upgrade from the Mrz Tomahawk? Thanks in advance.


 http://www.head-fi.org/t/802230/shozy-cygnus-official-thread


----------



## vapman

@BloodyPenguin did you think the Blur/Recessed reminded you of Dasetn Mc5? I'm not sure if you have experience with this partiuclar model, though.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> @BloodyPenguin did you think the Blur/Recessed reminded you of Dasetn Mc5? I'm not sure if you have experience with this partiuclar model, though.


 

 I owned the Dasetn MC5.  It is actually the earbud I am wearing in my profile picture (my wife has the Dasetn DIY PK3).  
  
 Sadly, EVERY Dasetn earbud I owned died.  So unfortunately I am unable to compare them.  Though from memory, I don't think they sounded much alike.  
  
  
 Edit, larger profile photo added:


  
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> I owned the Dasetn MC5.  It is actually the earbud I am wearing in my profile picture (my wife has the Dasetn DIY PK3).
> 
> Sadly, EVERY Dasetn earbud I owned died.  So unfortunately I am unable to compare them.  Though from memory, I don't think they sounded much alike.
> 
> ...


what? Zen's??


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> what? Zen's??


 


 No, I wish!  Just cheap Dasetn.
  
 --


----------



## vapman

Haha, I never realized you were wearing earbuds in your pic. nice!
 I actually meant to ask if they were the same housing as the MC5, but posted too quickly.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> Haha, I never realized you were wearing earbuds in your pic. nice!
> I actually meant to ask if they were the same housing as the MC5, but posted too quickly.


 
  
 The housings are similar , but with very different tips.  Plus, the build quality of the *noSounD* is MUCH higher than Dasetn. 
  
  
 EDIT, I will have some close ups of what I mean by much better build quality very soon.
  
 --


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> Thank you, but I over-exposed the photos due to the clear housings.  I am going to try for a more natural approach for my next try.
> 
> 
> I am way too obsessed with my photography.
> ...


 
 From what I can see on my screen at least, highlights don't seem to be blown out though hahaha.

 Keep up the good work mate!

 Really eager to know how do how does different version of those "Wong" bud sounds!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

@ClieOS sifu, lately, the urge to purchase the M1N VX is on the rise again, and looking at your ranking, you have placed them below the MusicMaker Tings.

 My question are:
  
 How does the Soundstage of both of these earbuds compare?
 How are the highs and details?
 Finally, is the Ting worth an additional RMB200 over the M1N VX?

 Thank-you


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> .... How does the Soundstage of both of these earbuds compare?
> How are the highs and details?
> Finally, is the Ting worth an additional RMB200 over the M1N VX?


 
  
 Soundstage: Ting > VX
 High / Detail: VX > Ting
  
 To be fair, I'll think VX is probably a better comparison to Tomahawk than Ting as far as sound signature is concerned since both are more toward the cleaner and higher detail sounding, while Ting is slightly more toward the middle ground between warm and cold sounding. But as far as clarity goes, I really would prefer VX over Tomahawk. The reason I rank Tomahawk higher is because it has a fully lower mid to bass that gives it a more balanced sound. But if clarity is top priority, VX will be the better choice.


----------



## ClieOS

By the way, here is the new look for Mojito, same sound though.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Soundstage: Ting > VX
> High / Detail: VX > Ting
> 
> To be fair, I'll think VX is probably a better comparison to Tomahawk than Ting as far as sound signature is concerned since both are more toward the cleaner and higher detail sounding, while Ting is slightly more toward the middle ground between warm and cold sounding. But as far as clarity goes, I really would prefer VX over Tomahawk. The reason I rank Tomahawk higher is because it has a fully lower mid to bass that gives it a more balanced sound. But if clarity is top priority, VX will be the better choice.


 
 Thank-you for the fast reply sifu! 

 Since I already own the DIY Dual Drivers as well as the Hawks, do you think I should spend the money on the VX?
 Besides clarity, is the sound signature of the VX any different from the Tomahawks?
  
 Thank-you


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> By the way, here is the new look for Mojito, same sound though.


 
 What?! How?!


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> Thank-you for the fast reply sifu!
> 
> Since I already own the DIY Dual Drivers as well as the Hawks, do you think I should spend the money on the VX?
> Besides clarity,* is the sound signature of the VX any different from the Tomahawks?*
> ...


 
  
 Different? Yes. A lot? Probably not enough to justify owning both.
  


audionewbi3 said:


> What?! How?!


 
  
 Just a different color housing, a new back plate and apparently longer pin socket. But Rose mentioned  they ahve the same sound as the old stock as the old stock is going to be discontinued.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Different? Yes. A lot? Probably not enough to justify owning both.


 
 Thanks for the reply!

 If they are not a lot of difference, I guess I should just save up and go for the Tings or Camp Fred earbud hahaha!

 Thanks for the information once again sifu.


----------



## Saoshyant

clieos said:


> By the way, here is the new look for Mojito, same sound though.


 
  
 Oh, there's a part of me that also wants to buy that design.  TOTALLY not worth it for me to have both Mojitos, but the new design is just so pretty.


----------



## supplehope

clieos said:


> By the way, here is the new look for Mojito, same sound though.




That new metal back plate looks really nice from Rose.

Since listening to the KC08 almost exclusively, Mojito is perhaps the only proper upgrade for me. Nothing against the VE fans though, Zen 2 may be cool for me, but I only have a pair of ears and I have sooo many things that I'm after for, after all.

Looking forward to my next earbuds -Tomahawks. Would be cool if I have more than enough for Ting as well though (dang tight here).


----------



## Saoshyant

Sorry about it being off topic, but @ClieOS do you have any thoughts on Rose's new 5 BA IEM?  If it can hold up quality-wise to the Mojito...  I'm awfully tempted.


----------



## ClieOS

saoshyant said:


> Sorry about it being off topic, but @ClieOS do you have any thoughts on Rose's new 5 BA IEM?  If it can hold up quality-wise to the Mojito...  I'm awfully tempted.


 
  
 No idea.


----------



## ZerkMeister

Whats the lowest price the Mojitos have been?


----------



## vapman

zerkmeister said:


> Whats the lowest price the Mojitos have been?


 

 I've seen them get down to around 190-195ish on ali (I never check taobao), that's when I got mine, and stores usually have coupons for if you spend x amount of dollars with them, so I was able to redeem another $5 coupon and knock $5 off.
  
@Saoshyant let me know if you end up going for any other Rose gear. I miss the screw out of those Mojitos I sold you. Hopefully they stay on the market for a while! I totally wish I could hear them with my PETEREK cables...


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman said:


> I've seen them get down to around 190-195ish on ali (I never check taobao), that's when I got mine, and stores usually have coupons for if you spend x amount of dollars with them, so I was able to redeem another $5 coupon and knock $5 off.
> 
> @Saoshyant
> let me know if you end up going for any other Rose gear. I miss the screw out of those Mojitos I sold you. Hopefully they stay on the market for a while! I totally wish I could hear them with my PETEREK cables...




I'm debating the 5 BA Rose, but it's not exactly cheap.


----------



## vapman

I grabbed a brand new set of Sennheiser MX500's in case I botched my old ones when modding them, but everything's gone well it seems, so I have a brand new set of MX500's if anyone's interested.


----------



## ClieOS

vapman said:


> I grabbed a brand new set of Sennheiser MX500's in case I botched my old ones when modding them, but everything's gone well it seems, so I have a brand new set of MX500's if anyone's interested.


 
  
 MX500 has been unofficially reproduced by a Chinese company under a new name, partnering with the original OEM (Foster Japan) for Sennheiser no less. I compared the new model to the original MX500 and they are just about identical. Not meant to rain in your parade, but there is not much reason get NOS MX500 anymore when there are new one out there.


----------



## vapman

clieos said:


> MX500 has been unofficially reproduced by a Chinese company under a new name, partnering with the original OEM (Foster Japan) for Sennheiser no less. I compared the new model to the original MX500 and they are just about identical. Not meant to rain in your parade, but there is not much reason get NOS MX500 anymore when there are new one out there.


 

 Have they been tested/measured? If they have been I'd buy half a dozen right now.
 I knew they existed but assumed they weren't legit.


----------



## ClieOS

vapman said:


> Have they been tested/measured? If they have been I'd buy half a dozen right now.
> I knew they existed but assumed they weren't legit.


 
  
 No, haven't seen any measurement on it. But it only cost less than $10 on Taobao so you can easily pick one up and test it out yourself.


----------



## vapman

Thanks very much for the link, I'll grab one and do just that.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I've been having fun with some budget buds lately and I thought I would do a special shout out for these.
  
 https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=8661323542
  
 They pair up very well with my Samsung S4 and FiiO M3.  Big controlled bass / Decent Soundstage / Good Detail / Fun Signature.
  
 These are one of the best earbuds for the go.  The version I purchased has the microphone and volume control.  I do not have to take my phone out of my pocket to stop, or adjust the volume on my walk to work each morning.  Really impressed by these.
  
 (BTW, I use VE's Light Foams for almost all my earbuds now, they are awesome).
  

  
 --


----------



## music4mhell

bloodypenguin said:


> I've been having fun with some budget buds lately and I thought I would do a special shout out for these.
> 
> https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=8661323542
> 
> ...


 
 I use VE Monk+ thin foams with all of my earbuds 
 No more heigi foams. And truly it's a game changer.


----------



## golov17

http://www.dx.com/ru/p/sur-s1636-hi-fi-mega-bass-in-ear-earphone-w-remote-mic-coffee-3-5mm-397918
Good for Trance Music Lovers


----------



## Danneq

Hmmm... Not too sure about the brand name since "sur" in Swedish means "cranky"/"sulky"/"surly"...


----------



## FastAndClean

danneq said:


> Hmmm... Not too sure about the brand name since "sur" in Swedish means "cranky"/"sulky"/"surly"...


 

 du er riktig


----------



## golov17

surréalisme french


----------



## Tympan

danneq said:


> Hmmm... Not too sure about the brand name since "sur" in Swedish means "cranky"/"sulky"/"surly"...


 

 not as bad as the "Blur" earbuds


----------



## vapman

Sadly, my SeaHf  400 ohm's developed a horrible buzzing in one driver. Makes me question the build quality of these units cause I don't think I have even 100 hours on these yet and @music4mhell 's SeaHf's started buzzing too.
  
 Hoping it's just a hair stuck in it or something...


----------



## Tympan

My Monk + only play out of one earbud after less than 5 hrs of playing. Had them for one day..... † ....


----------



## vapman

All my monks and monk+ are perfect still - fingers crossed and knock on wood! - but it's sadder when it happens to a $70 earbud than a $5 on
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





e


----------



## ZerkMeister

vapman said:


> Sadly, my SeaHf  400 ohm's developed a horrible buzzing in one driver. Makes me question the build quality of these units cause I don't think I have even 100 hours on these yet and @music4mhell 's SeaHf's started buzzing too.
> 
> Hoping it's just a hair stuck in it or something...


 
  
  


tympan said:


> My Monk + only play out of one earbud after less than 5 hrs of playing. Had them for one day..... † ....


 

 Stuff like this are my biggest fears in getting earbuds in the high price range.


----------



## vapman

I've gone through a ton of earbuds, IEMs and headphones and this is the second time it's ever happened to me. The other time was Hifiman ES100 but I got those replaced under warranty. I'll see if I can get these seahf replaced.


----------



## Saoshyant

Quote:


vapman said:


> I've gone through a ton of earbuds, IEMs and headphones and this is the second time it's ever happened to me. The other time was Hifiman ES100 but I got those replaced under warranty. I'll see if I can get these seahf replaced.


 
  
 The ES100 had the same issue for me as well.


----------



## mc0ne

The Tomahawk under the new design (Toneking) also started buzzing in deeper bass responses in the left channel after few days of listening :/
  
 The good build quality is only optically as it seems.


----------



## ZerkMeister

mc0ne said:


> The Tomahawk under the new design (Toneking) also started buzzing in deeper bass responses in the left channel after few days of listening :/
> 
> The good build quality is only optically as it seems.



Why is this coincidentally the same issue as my toneking tomahawks? Same left ear buzzing but mine was extreme screeching level. 
I wonder if both of ours is just bad luck or a bad batch. Has anyone also had issues with the left ear in the tomahawks buzzing wise?


----------



## supplehope

zerkmeister said:


> Why is this coincidentally the same issue as my toneking tomahawks? Same left ear buzzing but mine was extreme screeching level.
> I wonder if both of ours is just bad luck or a bad batch. Has anyone also had issues with the left ear in the tomahawks buzzing wise?




Hmm will update (if there is) any problems of mine if they ever arrive. Could be a matter of luck as well as those who kept quiet probably have no problems at all, dare I assume.


----------



## mc0ne

zerkmeister said:


> Why is this coincidentally the same issue as my toneking tomahawks? Same left ear buzzing but mine was extreme screeching level.
> I wonder if both of ours is just bad luck or a bad batch. Has anyone also had issues with the left ear in the tomahawks buzzing wise?


 
 Hmm very interesting. Seems to be a production issue then.


----------



## mc0ne

Hi all,
  
 have the H185 and the Tomahawk for testing since a week. Wanted to share a more detailed review, but for now a short one .
  
 In short, the H180 has the deepest and hardest bass, while the H185 has more resolution. And more clarity and extension in the higher frequencies. 
  
 The Tomahawk is clean with the resolution inbetween H180 and H185, but the bass is similiar to the H185, while H180 plays in a different league than both.
  
 Due to the better bass response, the H180 is my favorite among all three, followed by the H185 for the supreme resolution, clarity, better build quality than the H180 and for its superb price/performance ratio. The Tomahawk would be excellent, but few days into listening it started to distort badly in the left channel. So the higher price point gives nice optics and theoretically better durability, but practically speaking it doesn't seem to be the case.
  
 Now we would need an H185 with the bass extension and quality from the H180 and let's say a fair price increasement up to 15-20 dollars and it would be the best 
  
  
 Taking BloodyPenguin's ratings as a relative base, here my rating-additions:
  
*Tomahawk*:
 Lows - 6 / Mids - 8 / Highs - 6 / Soundstage - 8   (Penguin's rating)
  
*Ting*:
 Lows - 4 / Mids - 7 / Highs - 7 / Soundstage - 8   (Penguin's rating)
  
*Monk:*
 Lows - 5 / Mids - 6 / Highs - 6 / Soundstage - 6   (Penguin's rating)
  
*Edifier 180:*
Lows - 8 / Mids - 7.5 / Highs - 5.75 / Soundstage - 5   (my rating)
  
*Edifier 185:*
Lows - 6 / Mids - 8.5 / Highs - 6.5 / Soundstage - 6   (my rating)
  
  
 I'd also correct the soundstage of the Tomahawk more towards 7 or that of Monk and the Edifiers with +1 to have a more correct relation, at least to these ears here with the source being a Xonar D1 PC-Soundcard. Also haven't heard the Ting, therefore the highs may not be in correct relation aswell, but one may get the quality direction 
  
 Happy listening!


----------



## goodluck4u

SUR and JBM are the same maker. I guess the origin of those names are from Shure and JBL　respectively.


----------



## Alex CY

goodluck4u said:


> SUR and JBM are the same maker. I guess the origin of those names are from Shure and JBL　respectively.


 

 the full name is - JBMMJ SUR, just won on ebay 2 thear earphones (530 & 520) for 10$ both


----------



## Alex CY

saoshyant said:


> Quote:
> 
> The ES100 had the same issue for me as well.


 

 I've got mine yesterday, the same problem


----------



## golov17

alex cy said:


> I've got mine yesterday, the same problem


OMG, really?


----------



## Alex CY

left side. 
 I realy inlove with their sound signature:  dark, rich and bassy... something opposite to Tomahawks (light/spacious/clear)

 I have similar problem with Meizu EP-21HD, but buzzing sound comes from mid to high friquencies, ES100 has distortion in the bass area


----------



## golov17

alex cy said:


> left side.
> 
> I realy inlove with their sound signature:  dark, rich and bassy... something opposite to Tomahawks (light/spacious/clear)
> 
> ...


it is necessary to send the seller to replace


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Hmm, my tomahawks and es-100 have no problem what soever.
 I've bought all my earbuds direct from Taobao.

 For the individuals who bought them from AE, maybe you can try to have a refund?


----------



## Alex CY

Yes, no choice, they under warranty & should be replaced


----------



## golov17

Silver


----------



## Alex CY

I found another interesting "~20$" earbuds  - Plexton x55m


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> Sadly, my SeaHf  400 ohm's developed a horrible buzzing in one driver. Makes me question the build quality of these units cause I don't think I have even 100 hours on these yet and @music4mhell
> 's SeaHf's started buzzing too.
> 
> Hoping it's just a hair stuck in it or something...


mine is working very fine.


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> mine is working very fine.


 

 Glad to hear it and I'm sorry for incorrectly tagging you! I could have sworn it was you but someone in here posted about their SeaHf getting buzzy.


----------



## golov17

alex cy said:


> I found another interesting "~20$" earbuds  - Plexton x55m


 about
also


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> Glad to hear it and I'm sorry for incorrectly tagging you! I could have sworn it was you but someone in here posted about their SeaHf getting buzzy.


 
 Maybe that was me.

 I did mention a few post back my seahf was buzzy BUT that was due to perosnal negligence and not manufacture issue.


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> Maybe that was me.
> 
> 
> I did mention a few post back my seahf was buzzy BUT that was due to perosnal negligence and not manufacture issue.




It was you. Thanks for clearin that up. Mine always got used on high gain so maybe that did it.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> It was you. Thanks for clearin that up. Mine always got used on high gain so maybe that did it.


 
 I highly doubt so though. Ask for a replacement unit and see if similar symptoms developed. I was informed by bug guys that the drivers are extremely robust.


----------



## Akmola Lola

anyone had experiences with this 1more piston? any impression? tqvm


----------



## fairx

hi guys, is this the tomahawk mention by @Danneq
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2015-Go-Pro-MrZ-Tomahawk-Music-Maker-Earbuds-In-Ear-Earphone-Alloy-Tune-Earbuds-Such-as/519064_32595576926.html
  
 the price cut is good deal?


----------



## golov17

http://ru.aliexpress.com/item/YMHFPJ-diy-MX500-Stereo-Earphone-Wired-300-OHM-HIFI-Headset-Slive-cable-Headphones-For-Samsung-iPhone/32656179214.html
 very positive feedback from the user on our Russian audio forum Player.ru


----------



## Akmola Lola

i wonder whats the difference between the normal tomahawk and the go pro version, and the difference between Green Ting vs normal Ting..


----------



## supplehope

akmola lola said:


> i wonder whats the difference between the normal tomahawk and the go pro version, and the difference between Green Ting vs normal Ting..




Not sure about the latter, but I rememeber reading earlier on this thread that there isn't really any difference between the 2015 ("Go Pro") and the 2016, which is the version that I'm getting.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Go pro no difference with normal hawks, just different logo. Sonically, they are the same


----------



## golov17

http://s.aliexpress.com/rM7vIVJ7
US $8.08 /lot (8 pieces/lot)


----------



## Akmola Lola

thanks for the explaination guys


----------



## fairx

I jump on the tomahawk just now. Hope I don't regret it. The fund for topping ing nx1a just went to tomahawk.


----------



## Akmola Lola

fairx said:


> I jump on the tomahawk just now. Hope I don't regret it. The fund for topping ing nx1a just went to tomahawk.



pretty sure you wont regret it.. Ting sounded really good to me, Tomahawk should sound good too. have you read bloodypenguin's review for tomahawk?



golov17 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/rM7vIVJ7
> US $8.08 /lot (8 pieces/lot)


 will these fit Musicmaker Ting?


----------



## golov17

Yup


----------



## Sylmar

fairx said:


> I jump on the tomahawk just now. Hope I don't regret it. The fund for topping ing nx1a just went to tomahawk.


 
 I love the detail of the Tomahawk. Great with monk foams.


----------



## golov17

sylmar said:


> I love the detail of the Tomahawk. Great with monk foams.


MP Foams Great


----------



## Sylmar

golov17 said:


> MP Foams Great


 
 Which foams are these? I'm using the thicker foams that came with the Monk + expansion pack.


----------



## fairx

akmola lola said:


> pretty sure you wont regret it.. Ting sounded really good to me, Tomahawk should sound good too. have you read bloodypenguin's review for tomahawk?
> will these fit Musicmaker Ting?







sylmar said:


> I love the detail of the Tomahawk. Great with monk foams.


 yes I read his reviews. My current iem is e80 and from his description the tomahawk should be the middle between forward mids with e80 and laid back monk+. Anyway earbud will be new experience for me. I always thought of getting full size open headphone for home but now I belive earbud a good compromise for portability. Plus I can use them while laying around. Demm u monk+ lol.


----------



## golov17

sylmar said:


> Which foams are these? I'm using the thicker foams that came with the Monk + expansion pack.


----------



## ORV615

```
[color=rgb(33, 33, 33)] Headphones perfectly !! certainly deserves attention. PK1 as compared to the same part on . but unlike sound PK1 not dry. it also has a powerful bass and deep and not loose . scene is wider than PK1 . High bit more modest . Ringing no transparency. but still clear and beautiful. generally softer sound deeper and more thorough. very comfortable sound .[/color]
```


----------



## golov17

orv615 said:


> ```
> [color=rgb(33,33,33)]
> Наушники отлично !! безусловно, заслуживает внимания. ПК1 по сравнению с той же детали на. но в отличие от ПК1 звук не так сухо. он также имеет мощный бас и глубокий и не болтается. сцена шире, чем ПК1. высокий немного скромнее. нет Звон прозрачности. но по-прежнему ясно и красиво. в целом мягче звук глубже и более тщательно. очень комфортный звук.
> [/color]
> ```


ru lang


----------



## ORV615

```
[color=rgb(33, 33, 33)] sorry[/color]
```


----------



## Akmola Lola

if only the seller for the silicone hook has higher rating.. i wouldnt gamble for a 96%... already got a shipment lost with AE.


----------



## audio123

pai audio 3.14 flat vs vemonk?


----------



## supplehope

Using the Monk+ (non-EP) included foams with KC08 and they just get better than ever (bias, I know). 

Comparing with the stock full foams, the sub-bass is not perfect yet again, but definitely noticably improved, with the mid-bass actually being less emphasized yet still enough for my taste. 

Highs are still impressive, but mids are the only part where the KC08 are still lacking at though. Fatigue that caused by the fancy foams are zero and I can finally listen to them without being bothered by the problems that both types of aforementioned foams that gave me before.

The Monk+ are really good by themselves, but the KC08 with those foams are just yet more fleshed out than before. Fit is also way more comfortable as well. They don't hurt like those times with the stock foams anymore. 

Edit: If the sub-bass and mids (unlikely) can be improved much more from other types of foams I may own in the future, these may be in the end-game territory already.

Gear using: Fiio X1>>Ibasso D12>>Ostry KC08 (Monk+ "Fragile" Foams)


----------



## HairyHeadMara

golov17 said:


>


 
These foam from monk plus make my cygnus sound so good really love them


----------



## golov17

hairyheadmara said:


> These foam from monk plus make my cygnus sound so good really love them


yup, also with rubber rings with foams better


----------



## Joy Boy

Damn! So fluffy! The cutest foam i've ever seen. And it makes my zen v1 double great too. Sadly, i only purchased one of it (expansion pack). I'll buy 2 more next time


----------



## golov17

joy boy said:


> Damn! So fluffy! The cutest foam i've ever seen. And it makes my zen v1 double great too. Sadly, i only purchased one of it (expansion pack). I'll buy 2 more next time


very well


----------



## Tomasz2D

akmola lola said:


> i wonder whats the difference between the normal tomahawk and the go pro version, and the difference between Green Ting vs normal Ting..


 
  
 I believe these are just standard Tomahawks and "go pro" is just a clickbait attempt for people that search for Go Pro Hero cameras.


----------



## fairx

tomasz2d said:


> I believe these are just standard Tomahawks and "go pro" is just a clickbait attempt for people that search for Go Pro Hero cameras.



Lol those mainland sellers. Actually made me nervous to order. I know they're just doing business but by that they negate serious buyer who'll think their goods are just unreliable as those laughing claims. Lucky we have these forum. Full of information wealth but also a sand quick pit of poison. Lol again


----------



## audio123

fairx said:


> Lol those mainland sellers. Actually made me nervous to order. I know they're just doing business but by that they negate serious buyer who'll think their goods are just unreliable as those laughing claims. Lucky we have these forum. Full of information wealth but also a sand quick pit of poison. Lol again


easy earphones and HCK are the more reliable ones imo. At least [@]Brain Hu[/@] is here


----------



## ezekiel77

Hi guys I've reviewed the FiiO EM3. They are capable little buds!

 http://www.head-fi.org/products/fiio-em3-open-earbud-earphones-with-in-line-microphone-black/reviews/16052


----------



## ngoshawk

ezekiel77 said:


> Hi guys I've reviewed the FiiO EM3. They are capable little buds!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/fiio-em3-open-earbud-earphones-with-in-line-microphone-black/reviews/16052




Good review! I may have to pick up a pair of the KZ Acme's to compare. Cheers!


----------



## Akmola Lola

audio123 said:


> easy earphones and HCK are the more reliable ones imo. At least @Brain Hu is here


 
 the go pro are on easy store lol.. but true 2 of the best ae seller ive dealt with are them both.


----------



## music4mhell

akmola lola said:


> audio123 said:
> 
> 
> > easy earphones and HCK are the more reliable ones imo. At least @Brain Hu is here
> ...


 
 You can bargain with Easy earphone  They are very good sellers.


----------



## Akmola Lola

music4mhell said:


> You can bargain with Easy earphone  They are very good sellers.


 
 you can bargain with both.. but i got a dispute with AE due to a parcel violation via Sing Post, while AE has been a pretty much annoyance, Easy has been very professional and understanding, to a level i felt more comfortable dealing with easy as compared to with ae.


----------



## music4mhell

More i listen to Seahf/Dark Horse G400, i feel more musical and enjoyable


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> More i listen to Seahf/Dark Horse G400, i feel more musical and enjoyable


with amp?


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > More i listen to Seahf/Dark Horse G400, i feel more musical and enjoyable
> ...


 
 Chord Mojo 
 I feel it wil be my first and last DAC+Amp of my life


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> Chord Mojo
> I feel it wil be my first and last DAC+Amp of my life


cool


----------



## vapman

I think I'm gonna sell my Zen 2.0.... for a black edition Zen!!!


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> I think I'm gonna sell my Zen 2.0.... for a black edition Zen!!!


 
 VE Nirvana is coming next year  You can wait for 6 more months.


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> VE Nirvana is coming next year  You can wait for 6 more months.


 
 Woah, how have I missed this?


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> VE Nirvana is coming next year  You can wait for 6 more months.


 


 Where would that be placed compared to the current VE lineup?


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > VE Nirvana is coming next year  You can wait for 6 more months.
> ...


 
 Most probably near to VE Zen.


----------



## music4mhell

I am eagerly waiting for Impedance adapters (75, 150, 200 Ohms).
 I will test with cygnus, Ting all high end earbuds but with low impedance.
 Let see how it goes


----------



## audio123

music4mhell said:


> I am eagerly waiting for Impedance adapters (75, 150, 200 Ohms).
> I will test with cygnus, Ting all high end earbuds but with low impedance.
> Let see how it goes


 

 well on the ve monk thread, increase in impedance have no increment or decrement in sonic performance for the monks.


----------



## ClieOS

The Hi-Z 400ohm has arrived, here are its measurement against Headphone Association 400ohm, both naked as well as with foam:
  


  
 The graphs pretty much shows how I have heard between them - without any foam, I like the Hi-Z a bit better, as it sounds more balanced to my ear while HA tends to be a bit more forward on the mid. With foam however, I prefer the HA a bit better as Hi-Z becomes a bit too smooth. But as you can see, the tuning is actually not that different between the two as both are both on the warmish, richer sounding side of things. Overall sound quality is pretty much on par as they have more similarity than difference.


----------



## golov17

Any pics?


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> Any pics?


 
  
 Haven't taken any picture yet, but it looks identical to Headphone Association 400ohm earbuds. The only difference is the Hi-Z logo on the earpiece.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> Haven't taken any picture yet, but it looks identical to Headphone Association 400ohm earbuds. The only difference is the Hi-Z logo on the earpiece.


Ohh, thx


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> The Hi-Z 400ohm has arrived, here are its measurement against Headphone Association 400ohm, both naked as well as with foam:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sifu, have you read this thread yet? 

 Seems like the Hi-Z new 400Ohm is going to go into production soon.

 And from what I have gathered from the threads, seems like people would recommend Hi-Z for a "brighter" and more "balanced" sound


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> Sifu, have you read this thread yet?
> 
> Seems like the Hi-Z new 400Ohm is going to go into production soon.
> 
> And from what I have gathered from the threads, seems like people would recommend Hi-Z for a "brighter" and more "balanced" sound


 
  
 Let wait till it is actually out.


----------



## ryanjsoo

Anyone heard the Xiaomi capsule buds yet, very intriguing:


----------



## ClieOS

ryanjsoo said:


> Anyone heard the Xiaomi capsule buds yet, very intriguing:


 
  
 That will be more of an IEM than an earbud. Besides, so far the feedback I have seen seems to pointing to a less-than-average sounding earphone.


----------



## ryanjsoo

clieos said:


> That will be more of an IEM than an earbud. Besides, so far the feedback I have seen seems to pointing to a less-than-average sounding earphone.


 
  
 Bummer... Shame Xiaomi can`t seem to recreate the magic of the piston series in other form factors.


----------



## music4mhell

audio123 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I am eagerly waiting for Impedance adapters (75, 150, 200 Ohms).
> ...


 
 Let see, who knows i will get something different with my ting/cygnus/monk+, i am curious to know when i will use 200 Ohms adapter


----------



## music4mhell

Guys i got the Dunu adapters, 75, 150, 300 ohms, and yes there is difference.
 It's early to say, let me do some testing with my frnds and my bro.
  
 But for now, yes i feel better sound quality with these adapters, i used Cygnus & ting, Monk+ is at my home.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Let wait till it is actually out.


 
  
 Yeah. But my biggest problem right now is to refrain myself from purchasing anymore buds and to save up for CampFred earbuds.......But Taobao is just soooooo damn tempting!!!!


music4mhell said:


> Let see, who knows i will get something different with my ting/cygnus/monk+, i am curious to know when i will use 200 Ohms adapter


 
  
 The only time I use impedance adapters are when I need to use the LO of my Xduoo X3 into an Amp to avoid clipping


----------



## Danneq

Listening to Porcupine Tree with my Ting on my ancient iRiver H120. Truly great pairing with wonderful synergy! Tomahawk is more engaging with it's more upfron sound but Ting is much more musical. Have to recommend the iRiver to anyone who wants good sound. They can easily be modded with CF cards and batteries can be changed relatively easily. You need Rockbox for CF mods to work but Rockbox easily beat most original firmwares. This 12 year old DAP with built in line out can easily compete with many current DAPs.


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> Listening to Porcupine Tree with my Ting on my ancient iRiver H120. Truly great pairing with wonderful synergy! Tomahawk is more engaging with it's more upfron sound but Ting is much more musical. Have to recommend the iRiver to anyone who wants good sound. They can easily be modded with CF cards and batteries can be changed relatively easily. You need Rockbox for CF mods to work but Rockbox easily beat most original firmwares. This 12 year old DAP with built in line out can easily compete with many current DAPs.


 what about h320?


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> what about h320?


 
 I think that one as well. They are the same except for the H320/340 having a color screen (also it can be charged with USB I think).


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> I think that one as well. They are the same except for the H320/340 having a color screen (also it can be charged with USB I think).


Thanks


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> Thanks


 


 I am both an earbud nut and a vintage MP3 player nut...


----------



## Saoshyant

danneq said:


> I am both an earbud nut and a vintage MP3 player nut...


 
  
 The closest I ever got to a vintage mp3 player was I used to play mp3s on an old Sony Clie.


----------



## rggz

danneq said:


> Listening to Porcupine Tree with my Ting on my ancient iRiver H120. Truly great pairing with wonderful synergy! Tomahawk is more engaging with it's more upfron sound but Ting is much more musical. Have to recommend the iRiver to anyone who wants good sound. They can easily be modded with CF cards and batteries can be changed relatively easily. You need Rockbox for CF mods to work but Rockbox easily beat most original firmwares. This 12 year old DAP with built in line out can easily compete with many current DAPs.


 

 Cool! I'm listening to a lot Devin Townsend and progressive works nowadays and enjoying it with Tomahawk, after finding my right fit in some tracks worth that presentation more upfront, do you rate Ting a side grade over Tomahawks? Btw do you have a new top5 ranking? I'm curious haha.


----------



## Danneq

saoshyant said:


> The closest I ever got to a vintage mp3 player was I used to play mp3s on an old Sony Clie.


 
  


Spoiler: THIS is what I call a MP3 player!



 (not my photo)


 The first MP3 player I bought back in 2003 (if I remember correctly). I gave it away after I got a smaller, but still big, Creative Zen Touch around 2005, but out of nostalgia I bought a second hand Jukebox 3 on Ebay a couple of years ago. Big as a house but sounds pretty good and has got built in line out plus an included IR remote.

 I recently changed the 20GB HDD for a 80GB one and plan on using it at work.


 

  


rggz said:


> Cool! I'm listening to a lot Devin Townsend and progressive works nowadays and enjoying it with Tomahawk, after finding my right fit in some tracks worth that presentation more upfront, do you rate Ting a side grade over Tomahawks? Btw do you have a new top5 ranking? I'm curious haha.


 

 I haven't taken the time to work out a new top 5. Want to work out a top 10. However, my top 3 still stands (Blox TM7, Sony MDR-E252, Sennheiser MX980) and I think that VE Zen 1 makes it to number 4. Just have to figure out where to put Shozy Cygnus, Ting, Yuin PK1 etc etc. Plus the ones I haven't bought yet, such as Ostry KC08...

 About Ting vs Tomahawk I would probably rank Ting as a slight upgrade. The overall presentation is quite different though.


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> Spoiler: THIS is what I call a MP3 player!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


cool retro


----------



## audio123

golov17 said:


> cool retro


 

 damn this looks sick!


----------



## listen4joy

The Blox TM7  is not for  sell anymore?


----------



## ClieOS

listen4joy said:


> The Blox TM7  is not for  sell anymore?


 
  
 Not for about 3 yrs now.


----------



## listen4joy

what is the alternative?


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> cool retro


 
 A set of MDR-E252 in White sold on eBay for $1100 in November!
 Are they being re-released?!


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> A set of MDR-E252 in White sold on eBay for $1100 in November!
> Are they being re-released?!



Don't think so. They were released around 1982-1983. The first high end earbuds. I got my pair for $250 on Ebay about 3-4 years ago...

Awarning to everyone: try to stay away from vintage earbud collecting. If you think your wallet hurts now you have no idea of how it will feel after you've collected a few oldies...


----------



## ryanjsoo

vapman said:


> A set of MDR-E252 in White sold on eBay for $1100 in November!
> Are they being re-released?!


 
  
  


golov17 said:


> cool retro


 
  
 Damn, have a set of those HV70`s in the cupboard, pretty sure it`s a dual DD, any good?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> cool retro


 
 Not as cool as the Sony's but still good looking nonetheless (at least for me):


----------



## Saoshyant

The two detachable earbuds I ordered arrived in Chicago, so hopefully should be here within a week.  I'm quite curious how they'll hold up...  it also occurs to me the MMCX cables I have are all over ear designs, so I should probably order something from Amazon.


----------



## Joy Boy

danneq said:


> Listening to Porcupine Tree with my Ting on my ancient iRiver H120. Truly great pairing with wonderful synergy! Tomahawk is more engaging with it's more upfron sound but Ting is much more musical. Have to recommend the iRiver to anyone who wants good sound. They can easily be modded with CF cards and batteries can be changed relatively easily. You need Rockbox for CF mods to work but Rockbox easily beat most original firmwares. This 12 year old DAP with built in line out can easily compete with many current DAPs.



Only have iriver h10. But i can't use them now. The data cable and charger has lost, and still try to find the the shop that sell it


----------



## Saoshyant

Looking at MMCX cables on Amazon for the upcoming delivery, it occurs to me I can go 3 basic routes.  There's an inexpensive one that's around 15USD, several at 35-60USD, or I can be silly and buy a used good condition Onkyo headphone that uses 6N Copper MMCX cable with mic.  I could also just order something from China that'll be inexpensive and do the job, but have a bit of a wait behind it.  Anyone have any suggestions?


----------



## Danneq

joy boy said:


> Only have iriver h10. But i can't use them now. The data cable and charger has lost, and still try to find the the shop that sell it


 

 Shouldn't you be able to find those things on Ebay?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Gentlemen, may I kindly inquire on how do you "wrap" your earbuds, Style A or Style B

 I have been wrapping/keeping them Style A, but I have noticed that they take up quite a lot of space. Thus I was considering to wrap them up in style B. Will Style B damage the wires?

  
 Thanks for the info mates!


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Gentlemen, may I kindly inquire on how do you "wrap" your earbuds, Style A or Style B
> 
> 
> I have been wrapping/keeping them Style A, but I have noticed that they take up quite a lot of space. Thus I was considering to wrap them up in style B. Will Style B damage the wires?
> ...


always "A"


----------



## Saoshyant

audionewbi3 said:


> Gentlemen, may I kindly inquire on how do you "wrap" your earbuds, Style A or Style B
> 
> 
> I have been wrapping/keeping them Style A, but I have noticed that they take up quite a lot of space. Thus I was considering to wrap them up in style B. Will Style B damage the wires?
> ...




I always do A, and sometimes when I want to keep it tight and secure I gently wrap the cord as I'm looping it so it binds itself together. Looks rather nice, and hopefully has no ill effects.


----------



## ZerkMeister

Can I get a update on Ostry KC08 vs Hifiman ES100 vs Shozy Cygnus?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## vapman

zerkmeister said:


> Can I get a update on Ostry KC08 vs Hifiman ES100 vs Shozy Cygnus?
> 
> Thanks!


 

 Never heard 08 but the ES100 is fairly similar to the cygnus. if you take away a bit of bass depth & impact from the Cygnus it sounds more like the ES100. also the Cygnus has more energetic treble. aside from that the mids are actually fairly similar. One thing to note is AFAIK nobody has needed to replace their Cygnus, whereas drivers becoming buzzy and requiring warranty service is quite common among the ES100.


----------



## ZerkMeister

vapman said:


> Never heard 08 but the ES100 is fairly similar to the cygnus. if you take away a bit of bass depth & impact from the Cygnus it sounds more like the ES100. also the Cygnus has more energetic treble. aside from that the mids are actually fairly similar. One thing to note is AFAIK nobody has needed to replace their Cygnus, whereas drivers becoming buzzy and requiring warranty service is quite common among the ES100.


 
 So the Cygnus is better than ES100 in your terms. Awesome.
 Thanks vapman.
 Now if someone can give me a Ostry KC08 comparison, Ill be golden.
 The Ostry design is quite cool and want to know if its just looks or not.
 Edit: May I also add on a Ting comparison?


----------



## vapman

I've never heard Ting either, someone else will have to compare to that 
 I used to recommend the ES100 but the Cygnus was not for sale then. Now I prefer Cygnus all around to ES100.
 ES100 is more or less like Sennheiser MX500 with the volume slider @ halfway!


----------



## jrazmar

The Cygnus and Monk+ arrived yesterday but I'm quite disappointed because the Cygnus that came is the balanced version which I did not order. It's really a hassle having to return it and wait for another month or so for the replacement to arrive. I bought it from Easy Earphones. Anyone have the same experience with the supplier? 
  
 As with the Monk+, it's indeed the best bang for our bucks! Currently, it's burning-in. Anyone knows how many hours is required for the burn-in?


----------



## golov17

jrazmar said:


> The Cygnus and Monk+ arrived yesterday but I'm quite disappointed because the Cygnus that came is the balanced version which I did not order. It's really a hassle having to return it and wait for another month or so for the replacement to arrive. I bought it from Easy Earphones. Anyone have the same experience with the supplier?
> 
> As with the Monk+, it's indeed the best bang for our bucks! Currently, it's burning-in. Anyone knows how many hours is required for the burn-in?


Errors are always possible, perhaps unintentionally


----------



## ClieOS

jrazmar said:


> The Cygnus and Monk+ arrived yesterday but I'm quite disappointed because the Cygnus that came is the balanced version which I did not order. It's really a hassle having to return it and wait for another month or so for the replacement to arrive. I bought it from Easy Earphones. Anyone have the same experience with the supplier?
> 
> As with the Monk+, it's indeed the best bang for our bucks! Currently, it's burning-in. Anyone knows how many hours is required for the burn-in?


 
  
 You can get a balanced to single-ended adapter from Lunashops. I reckon by the time to resell it, a balanced version might hold better value.


----------



## jrazmar

golov17 said:


> Errors are always possible, perhaps unintentionally


 
  
 I know golov but the hassle is what frustrates me. Anyway, the damage is done. Now, my dilemma is whether to ship it back or not since I don't have a DAP with balanced connection. Damn!
  


clieos said:


> You can get a balanced to single-ended adapter from Lunashops. I reckon by the time to resell it, a balanced version might hold better value.


 
  
 Really?!!! I thought even with the adapter, it will not work that simple since the balanced connection has to be configured specifically for the earphones. If it is then I'm seeing light. Thanks ClieOS! Any link that you can share so I won't make a mistake on the purchase? I will do this instead of sending this back to Easy. Any aliexpress link is also appreciated as I do most of my purchases there.


----------



## Joy Boy

danneq said:


> Shouldn't you be able to find those things on Ebay?



Already purchased it before, but they sent me different cable. Not suitable for h10. I think i'll pass ebay. But i cant find it on AE or taobao either 




audionewbi3 said:


> Gentlemen, may I kindly inquire on how do you "wrap" your earbuds, Style A or Style B
> 
> 
> I have been wrapping/keeping them Style A, but I have noticed that they take up quite a lot of space. Thus I was considering to wrap them up in style B. Will Style B damage the wires?
> ...


----------



## ClieOS

jrazmar said:


> Really?!!! I thought even with the adapter, it will not work that simple since the balanced connection has to be configured specifically for the earphones. If it is then I'm seeing light. Thanks ClieOS! Any link that you can share so I won't make a mistake on the purchase? I will do this instead of sending this back to Easy. Any aliexpress link is also appreciated as I do most of my purchases there.


 
  
 The balanced version comes with 2.5mm TRRS IIRC? If so, this will work: http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=5221
  
 If is easy to convert balanced back to single-ended, just short the ground for both side together and you are done.
  
 p/s: here is the AE link for Lunashops, but as you can see, it is more expensive: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/4pin-2-5mm-Female-Silver-Plated-TRRS-Balanced-AKR03-Layla-Angie-Earphone-To-3pin-3-5mm/319162_32654559212.html


----------



## ZerkMeister

jrazmar said:


> The Cygnus and Monk+ arrived yesterday but I'm quite disappointed because the Cygnus that came is the balanced version which I did not order. It's really a hassle having to return it and wait for another month or so for the replacement to arrive. I bought it from Easy Earphones. Anyone have the same experience with the supplier?
> 
> As with the Monk+, it's indeed the best bang for our bucks! Currently, it's burning-in. Anyone knows how many hours is required for the burn-in?


 
 Did you get the 32ohm version or the 18ohm one?


----------



## jrazmar

clieos said:


> The balanced version comes with 2.5mm TRRS IIRC? If so, this will work: http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=5221
> 
> If is easy to convert balanced back to single-ended, just short the ground for both side together and you are done.
> 
> p/s: here is the AE link for Lunashops, but as you can see, it is more expensive: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/4pin-2-5mm-Female-Silver-Plated-TRRS-Balanced-AKR03-Layla-Angie-Earphone-To-3pin-3-5mm/319162_32654559212.html


 
  
 Hi ClieOS, I honestly not an audio technical person. I just enjoy good sound and music.  this is the picture I got from AE for the jack. can you tell by looking at this if it's a TRRS IIRC or not? Let me know if it's a yes so I can order now. thanks.


----------



## ClieOS

jrazmar said:


> Hi ClieOS, I honestly not an audio technical person. I just enjoy good sound and music.  this is the picture I got from AE for the jack. can you tell by looking at this if it's a TRRS IIRC or not? Let me know if it's a yes so I can order now. thanks.


 
  
 That should be a 2.5mm TRRS balanced plug for A&K's DAP. Those two Lunashops links above are the right adapter for you.


----------



## jrazmar

Yahooooo! Thanks a lot ClieOS for the confirmation. I will not return this to Easy. At least now I have the option for balanced in case in the future I will have a DAP that has that feature. Appreciate the help. I'm happy now.


----------



## Akmola Lola

jrazmar said:


> Yahooooo! Thanks a lot ClieOS for the confirmation. I will not return this to Easy. At least now I have the option for balanced in case in the future I will have a DAP that has that feature. Appreciate the help. I'm happy now.


 
 i saw a few ver of cygnus on AE, with price range from 79 - 99, 99 being at Easy, now i know that the 99 is the balanced TRRS, this means the cheaper ver is the nomal jack ver, like the luna shop and at penon audio ? on AE.


----------



## jrazmar

Got mine for $74. I selected the silver connector version which is the single-ended but got the black connector version which is the balanced version. there is no mention about impedance versions so I don't think the buyer has a choice for that.


----------



## vapman

Are there any Etymotic-sounding earbuds which are less expensive than the Mojo?


----------



## ryanjsoo

vapman said:


> Are there any Etymotic-sounding earbuds which are less expensive than the Mojo?




Definitely have a look at the musicmaker earbuds, the tomahawk and ting. I have the tomahawk and find them very neutral. I had the er4s a while back, too long ago to compare extensively unfortunately. Regardless, both are sure to impress with copious detail, clarity and a very neutral signature. Combined with the monk+ foams, detailing is even more prevalent. Love the simple adjustability of earbuds.


----------



## vapman

ryanjsoo said:


> Definitely have a look at the musicmaker earbuds, the tomahawk and ting. I have the tomahawk and find them very neutral. I had the er4s a while back, too long ago to compare extensively unfortunately. Regardless, both are sure to impress with copious detail, clarity and a very neutral signature. Combined with the monk+ foams, detailing is even more prevalent. Love the simple adjustability of earbuds.


 

 Hmm, I had the Tomahawk a few months ago, and didn't like it at all. The sound was too un-natural to me, and found the treble to be way too sparkly for my taste. If i like the TK13 I may consider trying the Ting
  
 Mojito was very Ety sounding but want to spend like $50 not $200, lol


----------



## ryanjsoo

Very true, on first listen, the Tomahawks were a bit thin in the midrange and a tad bright for my tastes, I find them a lot better with certain types of foams, especially donuts and monk+ foams which darken the sound a bit, producing more balance. I`ll be receiving a Cygnus soon and will post some comparisons with the Tomahawk and Monk+, it`s looking to be a really good earbud, not sure it`s very neutral though. Perhaps you`ll have better luck with the Ting...


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Are there any Etymotic-sounding earbuds which are less expensive than the Mojo?


kc08 maybe?


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> ryanjsoo said:
> 
> 
> > Definitely have a look at the musicmaker earbuds, the tomahawk and ting. I have the tomahawk and find them very neutral. I had the er4s a while back, too long ago to compare extensively unfortunately. Regardless, both are sure to impress with copious detail, clarity and a very neutral signature. Combined with the monk+ foams, detailing is even more prevalent. Love the simple adjustability of earbuds.
> ...


 
 I also felt the same, i use Ting only, Tomahawk i had used 2/3 times only


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > Are there any Etymotic-sounding earbuds which are less expensive than the Mojo?
> ...


 
 a BIG NO on Ostry KC08


----------



## goldenSHK

Unfortunately I've started getting buzzing in my right earbud of the VE Zen 2.0. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I can tell it's not a hair or dirt rattling because I've tried many times to clean it out gently without opening it. 
  
 Anyone else have this same problem and manage to fix it by opening them up? Since I'm the second owner of these, I'm not sure if I can send them in or if there is even any warranty, but maybe I can fix them myself.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> always "A"


 
  
  


saoshyant said:


> I always do A, and sometimes when I want to keep it tight and secure I gently wrap the cord as I'm looping it so it binds itself together. Looks rather nice, and hopefully has no ill effects.


 
  
  


joy boy said:


>


 
 Alright thanks for the info guys, guess I will stick with sytle a wrapping then.


----------



## audio123

can anyone recommend me whats next after ve monk/monk+? was introduced into earbuds bc of ve hehe


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> can anyone recommend me whats next after ve monk/monk+? was introduced into earbuds bc of ve hehe


zen2.0


----------



## springbay

In hindsight I would go for the Zen 2.0/RA 2.0 combo right away, and skip the previous ones I bought.
  
 The Music Maker buds don't fit my ears, and I don't like the sound signature of the Tomahawk. But if the shape of your ears work well with the Music Maker buds, you could give the bright sounding Ting a chance. I mean the original red full metal Ting. I have no experience with the green cable Ting or that new Ting that was introduced recently.
  
 Or else if you want something that is as a noticeable step up from the Monks but don't want to use an external amp like with the Zen 2.0, I'd go for the Cyngus. The VE buds as well as the Cyngus fit my ears perfectly.
  
 Currently I'm only using the Cyngus straight from the Iphone 6s and the Zen/RA combo with the FiiO X3ii


----------



## supplehope

vapman said:


> Are there any Etymotic-sounding earbuds which are less expensive than the Mojo?


 
  
  


golov17 said:


> kc08 maybe?


 

 The KC08 are v-shaped, so definitely not the choice for Etymotic-sounding earbuds.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Maybe try the powerbeats DIY DUAL DRIVERS?

 If I remembered correctly, @ClieOS used to mentioned that they sound like Ety's


----------



## fairx

I started to read this thread little by little and finally finished it tonight. 

First of all, thanks to all the contributors who post here. Really give me good insight of earbud world. Right now I'm a believer of earbud and their qualities. I started in deep in audio world about a year ago and discover lots of choices and own some of them. Found a lot of good recordings and rediscovering new heights in my music collections.

Though I love iem I realized to get a very spacious and great timbre sound there's no shortcut unless it's open design. And earbud offers fine compromise in price, SQ and comfort. Coming from the 80's and 90's where the buds are common and I do own many before, I have no idea they can sound this good.

Head fi community and this thread made me realize that. I haven't listened to my superlux at all since monk+ arrived simply because the little earbud destroy them in SQ and soundstage. Heck I even cancel my wishlist to get soundmagic hp200 (priced twice the Cygnus in my country. audition them couple of time, but again monk+ really close in sound refinement and price ratio is a plus ;D). And monk is not even in the top line in Clieos list. 

And now I'm waiting to get my tomahawk and can't wait to test em. Even today I ordered more monk for my friends, whom all stunned by its SQ (some own top iem and some doesn't even own any iem at all to begin with except the one that come with their smartphone).

Long live earbud!!


----------



## iano

fairx - well said!   It reminds us of what great resource headfi can be...I had a _slightly_ similar path myself - tried earbuds years ago, and felt they were just a cheap substitute for the 'real thing' ...tried iems, but could never get comfortable with the fit...tried my share of headphones...but due mainly to this thread ultimately have revisited earbuds and been converted. I have been making do with an E100 and edifier 185...but they have already persuaded me how good, and convenient earbuds can be (and how much better than I remember my previously tried Yuin's, maybe its my brain playing tricks on me). Of course, it turns out to be expensive (ordered 5 earbuds through aliexpress, mainly ones recommended in this thread), and you have to be patient (shipping from aliexpress takes longer than I am used to)...but I am sold.  So...thanks from me also to all those contributing on this thread - a quick check on google confirms that, outside of headfi, there appear to be relatively few sources for real life, up to date experience of the different models being developed, especially those from China.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

@ClieOS is this Lunashops Taobao?


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> @ClieOS is this Lunashops Taobao?


 
  
 No link in your comment.
  
 This is Lunashops' Taobao store: https://luna168.taobao.com/


----------



## vapman

@fairx nice to have you here in club earbuds, bud!
  
 i expect to see a lot more people coming back to them soon. IEMs are great but the isolation & fit issues are different for all people. I only own a couple IEMs but since the Monk made me realize great things could be done with earbuds, and the asian resurgence of interest in earbuds, it's a great time to get into earbuds IMO. Seeing more quality stuff come out constantly it's hard to keep up even if you make a point to try most good buds.


----------



## fairx

vapman said:


> @fairx nice to have you here in club earbuds, bud!
> 
> i expect to see a lot more people coming back to them soon. IEMs are great but the isolation & fit issues are different for all people. I only own a couple IEMs but since the Monk made me realize great things could be done with earbuds, and the asian resurgence of interest in earbuds, it's a great time to get into earbuds IMO. Seeing more quality stuff come out constantly it's hard to keep up even if you make a point to try most good buds.


 
 in this regards we're lucky to have more participants, since I'm obviously can't afford to try all of them, insight from others has been very helpful!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> No link in your comment.
> 
> This is Lunashops' Taobao store: https://luna168.taobao.com/


 
 Hmm weird, I could have sworn I attached a screen shot from my mobile. 
  
 But yup that pretty much confirms it.
  
 Thanks sifu


----------



## vapman

those of you using Zen/RA 2.0 combo, what other amps if any do you have? just curious what they compare to really
  
 big Cayin C5 fan here


----------



## springbay

vapman said:


> those of you using Zen/RA 2.0 combo, what other amps if any do you have? just curious what they compare to really


 
  
 My other amp is the K5 with the X3ii docked. But that combo is difficult to use on the move.


----------



## audio123

vapman said:


> those of you using Zen/RA 2.0 combo, what other amps if any do you have? just curious what they compare to really
> 
> big Cayin C5 fan here


 

 im thinking if i should acquire a c5 to pair with monk +. whats your take?


----------



## Saoshyant

RSA Shadow is another option. The sound quality of the two running off an iPod nano is actually quite impressive.


----------



## audio123

saoshyant said:


> RSA Shadow is another option. The sound quality of the two running off an iPod nano is actually quite impressive.


 

 yes the rsa shadow is classic though but what amps are to enhance the organic mids of monks? thanks in advance!


----------



## Tomasz2D

I just got these black wire clips today. May help a little bit with messy cables.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Alright guys, so after 200 Hours of burn in on both the Cygnus and SeaHF 320Ohms V1, here are my personal impression of these buds.

 Foams used on both buds are Monk+ "thin" full foams
 Amp is OAK Audio PHA, LG for Cygnus, HG for SeaHF
 Xduoo X3 RB LO -20dB

  
 Results:

*Cygnus*
 -Overall a "leaner" and "clearer" sounding earbud
 -Sparkly highs (non-fatiguing)
 -Mids are clean and clear
 -Bass note's are not thick (but both attack and decay are quick)
 -Slightly larger soundstage
 -Same depth as the SeaHF 320Ohms V1
 -Focus more on mid to upper ranges 
 -Analytical sounding
  
*SeaHF 320Ohms V1 (Custom tuned for “听感" or "listening feel")*
 -Overall a "fuller" sounding earbud
 -Bass rumble (presence) 
 -Bass is not as quick as Cygnus (attack and decay are both slower)
 -Somewhat grainy mids 
 -Soundstage width is narrower than the Cygnus
 -Soundstage depth is the same
 -Focus more towards lower to mid frequencies
 -Laid back, dark sounding
  
 If I were to summarize:
  
 SeaHF 320 Ohms V1 give me the impression of listening to live music in a small and cozy jazz bar while sipping on your cup of whiskey on rocks.
 Cygus gives me the image of listening to music with a pair of IEM's, very clean and lost of micro details) Of course, it can still recreate the ambiance of a song, but not as much as the 320Ohms (depending on your music genre).

 SeaHF  = Vocals (Jazz, Bossa)
 Cygnus = Pop Songs (Quicker tempo)  
  
 Still having mentioned all that, I would still use the Cygnus for Jazz or Bossa.
  
 Feel free to disagree with my impression please! I would like to know what do you guys think about the above mentioned earbuds, so I can better improve my description. 
  
 *All the above stated are my personal opinions, and as always YMMV.

 Thanks~!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tomasz2d said:


> I just got these black wire clips today. May help a little bit with messy cables.


 
  
 I prefer strips of velcro hahaha


----------



## ryanjsoo

audionewbi3 said:


> I prefer strips of velcro hahaha


 
  
 Or better yet, magnets!
  

  
 Link below for anyone interested:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/9PCS-lot-New-Arrival-Silicone-Magnet-coil-earphone-cable-winder-headset-type-bobbin-winder-hubs-cord/32649645454.html


----------



## ld100

ryanjsoo said:


> Or better yet, magnets!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 What are these headphones?


----------



## ryanjsoo

It's the baldoor/mrice e100.


----------



## ld100

I been looking at the earbuds listed in the first post and most are not available for purchase anymore. Is there an updated list? New models that worth getting?


----------



## ld100

ryanjsoo said:


> It's the baldoor/mrice e100.


 
 Any good? Worth getting as a step up from Monk?


----------



## ClieOS

ld100 said:


> I been looking at the earbuds listed in the first post and most are not available for purchase anymore. Is there an updated list? New models that worth getting?


 
  
 That's is already the most updated list - old / discontinued models won't be removed from the list because they are relevant for comparison.


----------



## ryanjsoo

ld100 said:


> Any good? Worth getting as a step up from Monk?


 
  
 I like the e100 a lot, it`s V-shaped with a lot of clarity and detail. There`s a lot of texture to the sound and bass extension is top for an earbud. It`s hard to say whether it`s better than the Monk+, the Monk+ without foams is a bit more balanced at the cost of extension but a lot darker with covers. If you like a slightly brighter sound with a deep bass response and will benefit from having a remote, the e100a is worth a look, if you want a more balanced/relaxing sound then the Monk+ is hard to beat. Given how cheap they are, you could buy both really. It would give you a taste of two very different kinds of sound signatures, and you can decide where to go from there. 
  
 Have a look at my reviews below for more details, the EM3 is also worth a look in this price range.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/venture-electronics-ve-monk-monk-plus/reviews/15932
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/fiio-em3-open-earbud-earphones-with-in-line-microphone-black/reviews/15560


----------



## ld100

clieos said:


> That's is already the most updated list - old / discontinued models won't be removed from the list because they are relevant for comparison.


 
  
 Most are not available. Having them for comparison is cool, but it is frustrating... Would be cool to have a list of what is available...


----------



## ld100

ryanjsoo said:


> I like the e100 a lot, it`s V-shaped with a lot of clarity and detail. There`s a lot of texture to the sound and bass extension is top for an earbud. It`s hard to say whether it`s better than the Monk+, the Monk+ without foams is a bit more balanced at the cost of extension but a lot darker with covers. If you like a slightly brighter sound with a deep bass response and will benefit from having a remote, the e100a is worth a look, if you want a more balanced/relaxing sound then the Monk+ is hard to beat. Given how cheap they are, you could buy both really. It would give you a taste of two very different kinds of sound signatures, and you can decide where to go from there.
> 
> Have a look at my reviews below for more details, the EM3 is also worth a look in this price range.
> 
> ...


 
 Got it. Thank you for the info. I want a big step up from Monk. I like Monk, but they sound a little undetailed to me... I want something that would be detailed as Shure and dark(er) as Monk... Not sure where to go...


----------



## ryanjsoo

ld100 said:


> Got it. Thank you for the info. I want a big step up from Monk. I like Monk, but they sound a little undetailed to me... I want something that would be detailed as Shure and dark(er) as Monk... Not sure where to go...


 
  
 Definitely have a look at the Baldoor E100 or MRZ Tomahawk then, they are both, slightly brighter earphones with more emphasis on clarity and detail. The Tomahawk in particular is more mid-forward similar to Shure`s house sound, but they are more expensive. The Monk+ were smoother and more laid-back to my ears, it will suit some, but you really need to know what you want with audio, especially earbuds that can`t be tried in stores, etc.


----------



## ClieOS

ld100 said:


> Most are not available. Having them for comparison is cool, but it is frustrating... Would be cool to have a list of what is available...


 
  
 Most are actually still available, you just haven't done enough research on them to find out where they are available - it is not meant to be easy, even with a list. However, just to make it a bit easier for you - now the list is color coded for discontinued models. But that doesn't mean you can't find discontinued models on certain market, noticeably places like Taobao, Amazon Japan or Rakuten Japan where rare models are still floating around.


----------



## AndroidVageta

ryanjsoo said:


> Definitely have a look at the Baldoor E100 or MRZ Tomahawk then, they are both, slightly brighter earphones with more emphasis on clarity and detail. The Tomahawk in particular is more mid-forward similar to Shure`s house sound, but they are more expensive. The Monk+ were smoother and more laid-back to my ears, it will suit some, but you really need to know what you want with audio, especially earbuds that can`t be tried in stores, etc.


 
  
 The Tomahawks are crap compared to the E100. I have both...but my E100's are also stellar compared to 99% of the other ones I've owned (since their sounds and drivers vary WILDLY), so you might not quite hear what I hear on my end. Also wouldn't call the E100 V-shaped either. More mid focused with great lows and highs in tow. Seriously reproduces voices better than anything I've heard.
  
 Here's the best way to store buds on the go:
  

  
 Koss wind up case. Done.


----------



## ld100

androidvageta said:


> The Tomahawks are crap compared to the E100. I have both...but my E100's are also stellar compared to 99% of the other ones I've owned (since their sounds and drivers vary WILDLY), so you might not quite hear what I hear on my end. Also wouldn't call the E100 V-shaped either. More mid focused with great lows and highs in tow. Seriously reproduces voices better than anything I've heard.
> 
> Here's the best way to store buds on the go:
> 
> ...


 
  
 So they vary in sound? Any source for getting a good one or they vary from the same supplier? I see them on Amazon...


----------



## AndroidVageta

ld100 said:


> So they vary in sound? Any source for getting a good one or they vary from the same supplier? I see them on Amazon...


 
  
 No not at all. There is no one that can guarantee anything with the E100's. I've had Baldoor/Mrice themselves, from China, send me 50+ pairs of the E100...all colors, models, etc...I've only found two pairs that sound like my original review pair. One pair I foolishly sent back to them for "testing" that I never got back. 
  
 In my tests I came to discover no less than 5 different drivers being used in the E100 line of earbuds. That's what sucks about them. If you get a "good" pair you could potentially be holding the best thing you've ever heard (check my seller feedback to see just a glipse of what I've owned and sold) and these are the best headphones I've ever heard. 
  
 So yeah, the only true way to get a good pair of E100's is to either buy one of my two pairs (ain't happening for anything less that a few hundred dollars) or go out and buy 100 pairs and hope you get a good one.


----------



## ClieOS

androidvageta said:


> The Tomahawks are crap compared to the E100. I have both...but* my E100's are also stellar* compared to 99% of the other ones I've owned (since their sounds and drivers vary WILDLY), so you might not quite hear what I hear on my end. Also wouldn't call the E100 V-shaped either. More mid focused with great lows and highs in tow. Seriously reproduces voices better than anything I've heard.
> ...


 
  
 IIRC, with only every 1 out of every 25 pairs E100 sounds as good as your E100 while the rest of the 24pairs are crap of their own, then such a poor quality control product is something no one should even recommend to anyone else.


----------



## ld100

clieos said:


> Most are actually still available, you just haven't done enough research on them to find out where they are available - it is not meant to be easy, even with a list. However, just to make it a bit easier for you - now the list is color coded for discontinued models. But that doesn't mean you can't find discontinued models on certain market, noticeably places like Taobao, Amazon Japan or Rakuten Japan where rare models are still floating around.


 

 Thank you. You have a very cool thread going. Let me ask you what do you think would be a wise buy to avoid getting few and wanting more & more... From your list it seems that taking price and quality into consideration Shozy Cygnus is the one to get at this point. Would you recommend getting Shozy Cygnus over other ones?


----------



## ld100

androidvageta said:


> No not at all. There is no one that can guarantee anything with the E100's. I've had Baldoor/Mrice themselves, from China, send me 50+ pairs of the E100...all colors, models, etc...I've only found two pairs that sound like my original review pair. One pair I foolishly sent back to them for "testing" that I never got back.
> 
> In my tests I came to discover no less than 5 different drivers being used in the E100 line of earbuds. That's what sucks about them. If you get a "good" pair you could potentially be holding the best thing you've ever heard (check my seller feedback to see just a glipse of what I've owned and sold) and these are the best headphones I've ever heard.
> 
> So yeah, the only true way to get a good pair of E100's is to either buy one of my two pairs (ain't happening for anything less that a few hundred dollars) or go out and buy 100 pairs and hope you get a good one.


 
  
 So it sounds that I got lucky and I should look elsewhere...


----------



## AndroidVageta

clieos said:


> IIRC, with only every 1 out of every 25 pairs E100 sounds as good as your E100 while the rest of the 24pairs are crap of their own, then such a poor quality control product is something no one should even recommend to anyone else.


 
  
 Which is why I edited my review to reflect this. I don't recommend them anymore due to this...which is a shame because these that I have, man, they're something else. Never heard anything so coherent like them in my life. Even all my CIEM's and the like don't touch them. Dang...
  


ld100 said:


> So it sounds that I got lucky and I should look elsewhere...


 
  
 Well, if you have a good sounding pair. With the E100 there's bad, OK, good, and incredible.


----------



## ClieOS

ld100 said:


> Thank you. You have a very cool thread going. Let me ask you what do you think would be a wise buy to avoid getting few and wanting more & more... From your list it seems that taking price and quality into consideration Shozy Cygnus is the one to get at this point. Would you recommend getting Shozy Cygnus over other ones?


 
  
 I don't like to recommend headphone blindly, so here is something to start you with: http://www.inearmatters.net/2012/07/sound-choice-illustration-of-sonic.html
  
 While something that is higher on the list might represent a safer choice, it is not a substitute for considering your personal listening preference.


----------



## audio123

Can anyone advice me if the tomahawk is a good upgrade over ve monk/+ thanks


----------



## AndroidVageta

audio123 said:


> Can anyone advice me if the tomahawk is a good upgrade over ve monk/+ thanks


 
  
 I haven't heard the Monk+ but the Tomahawk I'm not terribly impressed with at all neither is the person that gave it to me. Pretty "meh". I'd say spend the $40 on something else.


----------



## fairx

the new update reflecting on discontinued product on 1st page now better! TQ @ClieOS!


----------



## Townyj

androidvageta said:


> I haven't heard the Monk+ but the Tomahawk I'm not terribly impressed with at all neither is the person that gave it to me. Pretty "meh". I'd say spend the $40 on something else.


 
 Are your ears broken..??


----------



## Tarnum

I understand what AndroidVageta said, because I also have a "good" pair of E100.
 After having Tomahawk for several months, I still prefer my E100 than Tomahawk.
 Tomahawk has better treble extension and wider soundstage than my E100, but E100 provides a warmer, fuller, more cohesive sound with double bass slam as well as bass extension.

 However, I think Tomahawk is quite nice for its price.
 And about my E100, just say that I am very lucky to have a good pair, so cannot use it for a general earbud comparison.


----------



## kurtextrem

I still don't understand why I'm the only Asura 2.0 lover here


----------



## audio123

androidvageta said:


> I haven't heard the Monk+ but the Tomahawk I'm not terribly impressed with at all neither is the person that gave it to me. Pretty "meh". I'd say spend the $40 on something else.


 

 alright thanks man! anyone can recommend an earbud that focus on mids cheers!


----------



## yacobx

audio123 said:


> androidvageta said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't heard the Monk+ but the Tomahawk I'm not terribly impressed with at all neither is the person that gave it to me. Pretty "meh". I'd say spend the $40 on something else.
> ...




Asura 2.0, it's honestly not very popular but if you are a mids fan this earbud is for you. Acustic music on it is outta this world.


----------



## kurtextrem

yacobx said:


> Asura 2.0, it's honestly not very popular but if you are a mids fan this earbud is for you. Acustic music on it is outta this world.


 
 I can totally confirm that 
 imho Asura 2.0 > Cygnus > Tomahwaks
 but that's only me


----------



## Danneq

audio123 said:


> alright thanks man! anyone can recommend an earbud that focus on mids cheers!




Asura 2 or Yuin PK2.


----------



## Danneq

Tomahawk might be less musical and cohesive than other earbuds, but I would say that instrument separation and instrument "body" is top notch. Right up there with the TOTL earbuds. Not too far from my vintage Aiwa HP D9 or Sony MDR-E252/282. Or Blox TM7 or VE Zen1 or 2. But when I listen to them my focus is more on instruments while more earbuds with a more cohesive sound I just flow with the music while also enjoying excellent detail and instrument placement and separation.

Tomahawk might not be for everyone, but that can be said about all earbuds (or headphones). For example, I could never appreciate the sound completely of my VE Zen2. I traded them for a pair ofZen1 and those I loved from the first second.

So it's all about sound preferences.


----------



## kvad

audio123 said:


> Can anyone advice me if the tomahawk is a good upgrade over ve monk/+ thanks


 
  
 I seem to have a different experience from many other people here. While the Monk+ sounds good for the price, I do feel the Tomahawk is a substantial upgrade. Switching between them the sound stage opens up around you - like you just walked out of a constricted space into the open. The sound is smooth and just very enjoyable.


----------



## audio123

thanks for all responses. really appreciate it man


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> alright thanks man! anyone can recommend an earbud that focus on mids cheers!



http://www.ebay.com/itm/322021911035

http://mg.gmarket.co.kr/Item?goodscode=694345774


----------



## audio123

golov17 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/322021911035
> 
> http://mg.gmarket.co.kr/Item?goodscode=694345774


 

 Thanks mate!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Due to personal preference, I would not be purchasing the CampFred earbuds. So this has freed up quite some funds for other bud purchase.  
  
@ClieOS judging from my current collection, do you think I should purchase one of the following?

 Music Maker Ting
 Ubiquo ES-903
 MinVX
 Asura 2.0

 I like wide sound-stage and good micro detail. 
 I also like sweet mids

 Thank-you


----------



## ryanjsoo

I really enjoy the Tomahawks, but every time I recommend them to someone or agree that they are a good upgrade, someone says that I`m wrong and trashes the Tomahawks.
  
_"Personally"_ I think the Tomahawks are a great upgrade to any budget earbud including the Monk+, slightly mid-forward but quite balanced overall. I enjoy the clarity of the midrange and the fast bass performance but can totally see how people might feel that they sound "artificial" since the mids are a tad thin. Regardless, the build alone is worth the premium.


----------



## listen4joy

@ClieOS where the monks+ place in the rankings? is it in the same place like monks?


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> Due to personal preference, I would not be purchasing the CampFred earbuds. So this has freed up quite some funds for other bud purchase.
> 
> @ClieOS judging from my current collection, do you think I should purchase one of the following?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don' think anyone of them has all of the qualities you are looking for. However, out fo the three, I'll recommend Ting first.
  
  


listen4joy said:


> @ClieOS where the monks+ place in the rankings? is it in the same place like monks?


 
  
 It will be higher than Monk but not by much. Exact place not determined yet as I have not spent enough time with it to say for sure.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> I don' think anyone of them has all of the qualities you are looking for. However, out fo the three, I'll recommend Ting first.


 
 Then may I  kindly know which would you recommend for wide-soundstage and good detail/micro detail?


----------



## Saoshyant

Perhaps the Mojito!


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> Then may I  kindly know which would you recommend for wide-soundstage and good detail/micro detail?


 
  
 That VVV


saoshyant said:


> Perhaps the Mojito!


 
  
 ...then again, you won't have sweet mid with this choice.


----------



## Saoshyant

clieos said:


> That VVV
> 
> ...then again, you won't have sweet mid with this choice.


 
  
 Compromises must be made in this hobby, sadly.  Honestly, to me the Mojito simply outperforms the MX985, which is still a fantastic earbud.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> That VVV
> 
> ...then again, you won't have sweet mid with this choice.


 
 what do you mean VVV Sifu?
  
 I know it is impossible to have wide ss with sweet mids.

 But my priority is wide ss with good detail.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

saoshyant said:


> Compromises must be made in this hobby, sadly.  Honestly, to me the Mojito simply outperforms the MX985, which is still a fantastic earbud.


 
 Too bad the Mojitos are waaaaaaaaaaaay beyond my budget mate.


----------



## fairx

Haha tomahawk getting no love or getting most love. Stuffs that divide people usually special. Can't wait for mine to arrive. But honestly I'm more concern with report of build quality. Hope just limited Issue and not widespread. Iirc at least 2-3 post mention of buzzing issue. How's Easy Earphone handle warranty?


----------



## audio123

@ClieOS which earbud has the best mids and scales well with source?
 thanks in advance


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> what do you mean VVV Sifu?
> 
> I know it is impossible to have wide ss with sweet mids.
> 
> But my priority is wide ss with good detail.


 
  
 "VVV" as in downward pointing arrows? LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


audio123 said:


> @ClieOS which earbud has the best mids and scales well with source?
> thanks in advance


 
  
 Gramo One and Cygnus come to mind. Actually Zen 2 and Asura 2 do quite well on mid with the right source as well. Truth being told, I really haven't noticed any particularly great mid-centric earbuds in the market right now (* not that Gramo One or Cygnus are bad in anyway either, just that they are not exactly mid-centric)


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> "VVV" as in downward pointing arrows? LOL


 
  
 Ah so you mean the Mojitos then...paiseh paiseh I did not notice hahaha.
  
 Damn, those are a long long long way for me.......*sobs*


----------



## ld100

clieos said:


> I don't like to recommend headphone blindly, so here is something to start you with: http://www.inearmatters.net/2012/07/sound-choice-illustration-of-sonic.html
> 
> While something that is higher on the list might represent a safer choice, it is not a substitute for considering your personal listening preference.


 
  
 I hear you... I wish any of these were available locally to test... Thank you!


----------



## ld100

How about that: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/venture-electronics-monk-plus-earbud


----------



## ZerkMeister

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/venture-electronics-monk-plus-earbud
  
 Red color.

 In case you guys aren't following the monk thread.


----------



## Raketen

I am curious how many of the people ordering those through massdrop already have a pair


----------



## rggz

Guys, what's the best form and mic to measure an earbud? I knew the Veritas system but it's a bit expensive atm for my propose. I'm used to using REW to configure and calibrate my room with speakers, but I saw the majority people using ARTA software nowadays for measure headphones, has some tutorial and the correct profile like IEC 60318-4 specific to earbuds?
  
 I've bought some dynamic earbud drivers and more 3 pairs of E100 to check with precision what's going on and see what they changed also I wanna build some earbuds too and that's will be nice to check channel balance and distortion.


----------



## ld100

raketen said:


> I am curious how many of the people ordering those through massdrop already have a pair


 

 I ordered. Was going to get one in black anyways just in case... Red even better!


----------



## gattari

townyj said:


> androidvageta said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't heard the Monk+ but the Tomahawk I'm not terribly impressed with at all neither is the person that gave it to me. Pretty "meh". I'd say spend the $40 on something else.
> ...



Also my ear is broken, I don't like the tomahawk


----------



## gattari

Pardon I replied to an old post for error.


----------



## ld100

gattari said:


> Also my ear is broken, I don't like the tomahawk




What do you like?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

@ClieOS, sifu, since you mentioned that only the Mojitos are wide and detailed, and seeing that they are beyond my reach, I am considering the Tings then.
  
 In terms of details and sound-staging, how well do they stack up against the DIY Dual Drivers?

 Thank-you


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> @ClieOS, sifu, since you mentioned that only the Mojitos are wide and detailed, and seeing that they are beyond my reach, I am considering the Tings then.
> 
> In terms of details and sound-staging, how well do they stack up against the DIY Dual Drivers?
> 
> Thank-you


 

 Of all the earbuds I have tried, Cygnus is closest to Mojito, but it is still less neutral & wide than the Mojito, and I have never heard any earbud nearly as detailed as Mojito either.
  
 Personally I am waiting to find a cheaper (sub $100) earbud which is very similar to the Mojito. I don't know if it'll ever happen, the Mojito is truly a marvel. I'm sure it'll disappear from the market one day and become a thing of legend.


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, having gotten in Easy's 2 detachable earbuds today, giving them a very quick listen (I've had them 30 minutes or so) I'm not going to even jokingly compare the two to other earbuds I own as I'm also playing with a new dac/amp the Encore mDSD which I picked up off @ClieOS's suggestion.  That and the fact that neither came with an MMCX cable, so I'm borrowing an over ear cable from my Pai Audio DR1 which results in an odd fit for the larger of the two earbuds given it's rather asymmetrical shape.  I'll order a cable sometime tonight that doens't force an over ear fit.  The smaller and more expensive of the two fits quite comfortably in an over ear fit, so I may actually leave it on this cable.
  
 The one that states it uses the original PK1 driver(which I shall refer to as A for ease) has the more enjoyable sound out of the box.  The less expensive earbud uses a 15mm driver (I'll call this one B), so it's a fairly large shell all things considered.  Doing my best to estimate the same volume, the sub bass is better on A, and vocals so far seem fairly decent.  I'd guess this is a fairly balanced level of sub bass, but I'm unaware of a truly bass-centric earbud, just some earbuds that produce bass at higher levels than others.  The instruments on A feel slightly recessed compared to vocals, which for me is rarely the case on what I listen to (which in all honestly a lot of my gear can be either v shaped or be known for being treble heavy).  I will note instrument detail feels fairly decent all things considered, as instruments in the background of the track I'm listening to are noticeable, which isn't always the case.
  
 As far as B is concerned, I really feel I should wait until I get a more suiting MMCX cable until I post any impressions whatsoever, as even something like this can color anyone's perspective.


----------



## audio123

clieos said:


> "VVV" as in downward pointing arrows? LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 thanks mate! i like the monk mids though haha


----------



## luedriver

what about philips earbuds?
  
 I have http://www.philips.co.in/c-p/SHE2670BW_98/in-ear-headphones and have used philps she1350 http://imagenes.anunciadoentv.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1000x1000/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/p/h/philips_1350.jpg
  
 I think the first one is almost as good as apple, but not really, biased opinion since I have been using them for a few years now, they sounded a bit better with my iphone 6s than my iphone 5, but I guess that was expected, I am pretty sure there are many other philips earbuds that would be better, I just got these because they were on sale, although now the she2670 cost about 20 aud on ebay, I got them for just 5


----------



## golov17

luedriver said:


> what about philips earbuds?
> 
> I have http://www.philips.co.in/c-p/SHE2670BW_98/in-ear-headphones and have used philps she1350 http://imagenes.anunciadoentv.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1000x1000/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/p/h/philips_1350.jpg
> 
> I think the first one is almost as good as apple, but not really, biased opinion since I have been using them for a few years now, they sounded a bit better with my iphone 6s than my iphone 5, but I guess that was expected, I am pretty sure there are many other philips earbuds that would be better, I just got these because they were on sale, although now the she2670 cost about 20 aud on ebay, I got them for just 5


 only SHE3800 really very well  




https://m.fasttech.com/products/0/10005987/1460600-philips-she3800-3-5mm-earphone
if you are lucky enough to catch a good pair


----------



## luedriver

golov17 said:


> only SHE3800 really very well
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I just ordered some, for less than 5 aud, more of an impulse buy, but one can't have too many earbuds, they should come a bit after the ve monk+, wanted to know however what the OP thought about philips earbuds


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> Of all the earbuds I have tried, Cygnus is closest to Mojito, but it is still less neutral & wide than the Mojito, and I have never heard any earbud nearly as detailed as Mojito either.
> 
> Personally I am waiting to find a cheaper (sub $100) earbud which is very similar to the Mojito. I don't know if it'll ever happen, the Mojito is truly a marvel. I'm sure it'll disappear from the market one day and become a thing of legend.


 
 Do you own the Mojitos? 
 Since I already own the Cygnus, I also consider the details of the earbud to be very good. However, sound-staging is just not one of it's strong points. If the Tings have the details of Cygnus with a wider sound-stage, that would be good.


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> @ClieOS, sifu, since you mentioned that only the Mojitos are wide and detailed, and seeing that they are beyond my reach, I am considering the Tings then.
> 
> In terms of details and sound-staging, how well do they stack up against the DIY Dual Drivers?
> 
> Thank-you


 
  
 If Mojito's soundstage is a 10, then DIY dual driver is probably an 7.5 and Ting is probably an 8. Ting is rated higher than DIY D.D. because its has a more laid back and slightly more 3D (mostly thanks to its more robust lower end) presentation.
  
 As for detail, also with Mojito as a 10, DIY dual driver will be an 6 and Ting will be 7.5. Ting is rated higher because, unlike DIY D.D's high which gets a little grainy on higher volume, Ting's high is more delicate.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> If Mojito's soundstage is a 10, then DIY dual driver is probably an 7.5 and Ting is probably an 8. Ting is rated higher than DIY D.D. because its has a more laid back and slightly more 3D (mostly thanks to its more robust lower end) presentation.
> 
> As for detail, also with Mojito as a 10, DIY dual driver will be an 6 and Ting will be 7.5. Ting is rated higher because, unlike DIY D.D's high which gets a little grainy on higher volume, Ting's high is more delicate.


 
 Thank-you for the informative reply sifu. 

 Okay, I shall seriously consider my purchase for the Tings then. But those Mojitos though........Wish I knew about them back when they were still 700++RMB.


----------



## ld100

audionewbi3 said:


> Thank-you for the informative reply sifu.
> 
> Okay, I shall seriously consider my purchase for the Tings then. But those Mojitos though........Wish I knew about them back when they were still 700++RMB.


 
  
 The $300 price tag is kind of a deal breaker for me. I can't spend that much blindly on Ali...


----------



## fairx

clieos said:


> If Mojito's soundstage is a 10, then DIY dual driver is probably an 7.5 and Ting is probably an 8. Ting is rated higher than DIY D.D. because its has a more laid back and slightly more 3D (mostly thanks to its more robust lower end) presentation.
> 
> As for detail, also with Mojito as a 10, DIY dual driver will be an 6 and Ting will be 7.5. Ting is rated higher because, unlike DIY D.D's high which gets a little grainy on higher volume, Ting's high is more delicate.




I love these scale comparison. I hope many more doing comparison like this. Of course it still depends on one's perceptions but still, it's makes MORE sense.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

ld100 said:


> The $300 price tag is kind of a deal breaker for me. I can't spend that much blindly on Ali...




Yea,but I always buy from Taobao as it is always cheaper when compared to AE.

Bummer really. Hoping to find any sub $100 bud which can come close to 90% of the Mojitos performance


----------



## ld100

audionewbi3 said:


> Yea,but I always buy from Taobao as it is always cheaper when compared to AE.
> 
> Bummer really. Hoping to find any sub $100 bud which can come close to 90% of the Mojitos performance


 
  
 Let us know if you find something. For under a $100 I would pull a trigger right away


----------



## golov17

fairx said:


> I love these scale comparison. I hope many more doing comparison like this. Of course it still depends on one's perceptions but still, it's makes MORE sense.


Well, but not for all it is given .. talent individual.. Respect, ClieOS work for you..


----------



## vapman

AudioNewbi3

I owned the mojito for about 2 week before selling it. I wish I kept it. No other earbud i have ever heard can match it on detailing. I don't know how the mojito is so accurate.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> @AudioNewbi3
> 
> I owned the mojito for about 2 week before selling it. I wish I kept it. No other earbud i have ever heard can match it on detailing. I don't know how the mojito is so accurate.


 
  
 Wow! may I kindly you why you sold it then? I am sorry if it was mentioned before.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

ld100 said:


> Let us know if you find something. For under a $100 I would pull a trigger right away


 
  Maybe @BloodyPenguin 's blur earbuds may just provide the solution?


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> Wow! may I kindly you why you sold it then? I am sorry if it was mentioned before.




No problem. I ended up selling it cause I thought the Zen was more fun overall and at the time I preferred zen for just about everything. I wish I had the mojito back now! Really only sold it to fund whatever I bought after them, so that's probably the seahf's..


----------



## canali

hi everyone...just joined this group...
  
 what of gym worthy earbuds that can take sweat/water?


----------



## ld100

audionewbi3 said:


> Maybe @BloodyPenguin 's blur earbuds may just provide the solution?


 
  
 Please elaborate. Not sure what they are...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> Maybe @BloodyPenguin 's blur earbuds may just provide the solution?


 
  
 I currently have 3 models of the "NoSounD" DIY Brand.  Out of the three, the original Blur version is just fantastically clear and accurate.  I've been meaning to get a full review of it done, but I have been swamped with family life lately and have not had a chance.
  
 I actually have a few earbuds I REALLY need to find time to review;  The VE Asura, MusicMaker Ting Light and of course the aforementioned NoSounD Blur.  All of which are great earbuds, but different. 
  
 Due to my overwhelming home life, I have been unable to compete any review in over three weeks and I am not sure when in the future I am going to have time to start up again.  I hope sooner than later.
  
  
 Those looking to get their hands on the NoSounD Blur, I would highly suggest reaching out to Wong Kuan Wae on Facebook.  I paid, basically full price for my units as he does not give out samples for review.  The Blur is WELL worth the asking price, which I have been asked not to post.  To get more info, it is best to reach out to him directly here:  https://www.facebook.com/wkuanwae 
  
 NoSounD has a few other models, while they are decent, IMO, they are no were near as good as the original Blur.
  
 ..


----------



## golov17

Wong Kuan Wae
wae33640@gmail.com


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> I currently have 3 models of the "NoSounD" DIY Brand.  Out of the three, the original Blur version is just fantastically clear and accurate.  I've been meaning to get a full review of it done, but I have been swamped with family life lately and have not had a chance.
> 
> I actually have a few earbuds I REALLY need to find time to review;  The VE Asura, MusicMaker Ting Light and of course the aforementioned NoSounD Blur.  All of which are great earbuds, but different.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the reply mate! Its okay, take your time. Hope everything is well with your family.

Last question, are the blurs better than Original Tings?

Thank you


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> Thanks for the reply mate! Its okay, take your time. Hope everything is well with your family.
> 
> Last question, are the blurs better than Original Tings?
> 
> Thank you


 
  
 I'll try and spend some time with the Blurs and Tings (original) later tonight.  I will report back then.
  
 ..


----------



## ld100

So what should I buy today for under a hundred dollars?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> I'll try and spend some time with the Blurs and Tings (original) later tonight.  I will report back then.
> 
> ..


 
 Thank-you mate! You're a champ!


----------



## ld100

golov17 said:


> Wong Kuan Wae
> wae33640@gmail.com




Does he have anything online that show what he sells?


----------



## Danneq

ld100 said:


> So what should I buy today for under a hundred dollars?


 

 Shozy Cygnus might have the broadest appeal when it comes to sound. A very smooth and detailed sound signature with good bass response. Plus you will get the opportunity to witness the cream white cable turn into a hue of green!

 Other good ones are Music Maker Ting, which is more "distance sounding" but still very detailed. A great analytical earbud.

 Tomahawk is great as well, as some will say (while others will say the opposite).

 Shozy Cygnus is still the safest bet. Also, the Cygnus housing is very comfortable.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

ld100 said:


> Does he have anything online that show what he sells?


 
  
 This will help a bit:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/headfi.org/search/?query=Wong%20Kuan%20Wae
  
 --


----------



## goldenSHK

Anyone who has tried the MX585 have any impressions/comparisons to other earbuds? Thanks

 http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-MX585-Power-Music-Headphones/dp/B00FWMITG8/


----------



## ld100

danneq said:


> Shozy Cygnus might have the broadest appeal when it comes to sound. A very smooth and detailed sound signature with good bass response. Plus you will get the opportunity to witness the cream white cable turn into a hue of green!
> 
> 
> Other good ones are Music Maker Ting, which is more "distance sounding" but still very detailed. A great analytical earbud.
> ...




What is the best place to get them from? In US?


----------



## Danneq

ld100 said:


> What is the best place to get them from? In US?


 


 Either from a seller on Ali express or from Penon audio...


----------



## ld100

bloodypenguin said:


> This will help a bit:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/headfi.org/search/?query=Wong%20Kuan%20Wae
> 
> --


 
  
 So it is DIY one offs? And they are that good?


----------



## Akmola Lola

so i got this earbud with fiio M3, didnt really use it as it sounded mediocre ootb even with an amp.. after a while, as i was burning my other china iem, i just burn this together with a splitter.. so after 150hrs or so, i tested it with a basic amp + fiio M3... horii shiet it sounded pretty good.. bass has more presence, mids n vocals more precise n clear..
 onnnlyyy to find out the jack is busted, i need to twist it to get sound from both earbud.. daymm..


----------



## golov17

goldenshk said:


> Anyone who has tried the MX585 have any impressions/comparisons to other earbuds? Thanks
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-MX585-Power-Music-Headphones/dp/B00FWMITG8/


not good, trash
Mx375 good


----------



## goldenSHK

golov17 said:


> not good, trash
> Mx375 good


 
 Thanks for the warning. Saved me some money. Although the reviews on amazon make it sound very good.


----------



## golov17

goldenshk said:


> Thanks for the warning. Saved me some money. Although the reviews on amazon make it sound very good.


mid oriented meager sound, I do not recommend ⛔


----------



## golov17

ld100 said:


> Does he have anything online that show what he sells?


 https://m.facebook.com/wkuanwae/albums/10206065468305166/


----------



## audio123

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-Go-Pro-FAAEAL-300ohm-In-Ear-Earbuds-High-Impedance-300ohms-Flat-Head-Plug-Earburd-Alloy/519064_32671274875.html


----------



## ld100

audio123 said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-Go-Pro-FAAEAL-300ohm-In-Ear-Earbuds-High-Impedance-300ohms-Flat-Head-Plug-Earburd-Alloy/519064_32671274875.html


 
  
  
 What is it?


----------



## audio123

ld100 said:


> What is it?


 

 im unsure came across it on AE


----------



## AudioNewbi3

audio123 said:


> im unsure came across it on AE


 
 most probably a rebranded SeaHf 300Ohm with Fareal Logo


----------



## audio123

audionewbi3 said:


> most probably a rebranded SeaHf 300Ohm with Fareal Logo


 

 is it


----------



## AudioNewbi3

audio123 said:


> is it


 
 Not sure but I think so hahaha
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.25.v6HFb4&id=527381154674&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Not sure but I think so hahaha
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.25.v6HFb4&id=527381154674&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail


64 Ohm, lol 




http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=a1z3i.7c.0.0&id=532851425999&scm=1007.10762.17164.100200300000000


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> 64 Ohm, lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yeah haha I will try and list down the diff versions available tomorrow. Seems like the company is coming out with a lot of new buds.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

audionewbi3 said:


> Yeah haha I will try and list down the diff versions available tomorrow. Seems like the company is coming out with a lot of new buds.


 
 Okay so here are the supposedly available version for the Faareal:

 Original Version with monk drivers (discon)

 New Version with new driver (blue or balck, mic or w/o mic) (overly bright according to some)
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.4.50qpIO&id=39799975846&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail 

 300 Ohm "Water Sprite" V1.0 and V2.0
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.14.A5ksPG&id=532853141425&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail
  
 64 Ohms "Snow Lotus" V1.0 and V2.0 (available in black or transparent housing)
 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.24.A5ksPG&id=532851425999&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail

 All V2.0 of Fareal buds are on preorder.
 Diff between V1.0 and V2.0 are just wires.
 1.0 uses 120 strand copper wires
 2.0 will be using Sony silver plated cable

 *according to what I understood from Taobao pages.


----------



## ld100

audionewbi3 said:


> Okay so here are the supposedly available version for the Faareal:
> 
> 
> Original Version with monk drivers (discon)
> ...




How do buy from there? Is there an English version?


----------



## golov17

ld100 said:


> How do buy from there? Is there an English version?


Mistertao.com 
http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/532853141425.html


----------



## fairx

Grr, my Tomahawk now at customs.. hope will reach me in 2-3 days. but hiegi donut just pop by mail just now. Nice!!
  
 maybe when I have my tomahawk I'll write my debut review in head fi


----------



## ezekiel77

Hi guys, after hearing what the EM3 can do, I'm curious about the VE line. Wanted to go with the Monk. But I thought, since the pinnacle of earbud-dom is not too expensive compared to midfi/summitfi, I should probably just get the Zen 2.0. Correct me if I'm wrong, is the Black version just a Zen 2.0 with a better cable?


----------



## AudioNewbi3 (Dec 19, 2017)

fairx said:


> Grr, my Tomahawk now at customs.. hope will reach me in 2-3 days. but hiegi donut just pop by mail just now. Nice!!
> 
> maybe when I have my tomahawk I'll write my debut review in head fi


 
 Don't worry postal service is very very fast ans efficient, rarely do they cause a delay.


----------



## music4mhell

ezekiel77 said:


> Hi guys, after hearing what the EM3 can do, I'm curious about the VE line. Wanted to go with the Monk. But I thought, since the pinnacle of earbud-dom is not too expensive compared to midfi/summitfi, I should probably just get the Zen 2.0. Correct me if I'm wrong, is the Black version just a Zen 2.0 with a better cable?


 
 Anyways with Zen 2, you will get Monk+ & Monk and complimentary 
 Yes black edition is with Cardas cable, people say that sounds better than stock cable.


----------



## fairx

audionewbi3 said:


> Don't worry if you live in peninsular, Pos Malaysia service is very very fast ans efficient, rarely do they cause a delay, unlike from my part hahahaha


 
 Thats assuring! Haha yes I live in peninsular.. Gin no Kuni 銀国! (I saw ur location 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## ezekiel77

music4mhell said:


> Anyways with Zen 2, you will get Monk+ & Monk and complimentary
> Yes black edition is with Cardas cable, people say that sounds better than stock cable.


 
  
 Thanks! That price jump tho... makes me think I'm paying $200 for Cardas cables and maybe $150 for the drivers.


----------



## music4mhell

ezekiel77 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Anyways with Zen 2, you will get Monk+ & Monk and complimentary
> ...


 
 That's true, that's why i ordered only zen 2. Cardas is always expensive. But your decission


----------



## Tomasz2D

ezekiel77 said:


> Thanks! That price jump tho... makes me think I'm paying $200 for Cardas cables and maybe $150 for the drivers.


 
  
 I think in this case you also pay premium for VE brand name.


----------



## ezekiel77

music4mhell said:


> That's true, that's why i ordered only zen 2. Cardas is always expensive. But your decission


 
  


tomasz2d said:


> I think in this case you also pay premium for VE brand name.


 
  
 Yup. I'm a cable believer but I don't think I'm making the jump here. They don't look replaceable to me. Regular Zen 2.0 will be in my sights then.


----------



## golov17

ezekiel77 said:


> Thanks! That price jump tho... makes me think I'm paying $200 for Cardas cables and maybe $150 for the drivers.


 Do not forget about the lifetime warranty


----------



## vapman

The most important difference to note about Black edition Zen 2 is lifetime warranty and upgrades. that's why i chose to replace my Zen 2 with the Black Edition


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> The most important difference to note about Black edition Zen 2 is lifetime warranty and upgrades. that's why i chose to replace my Zen 2 with the Black Edition


 
 How much difference between Zen 2 and black edition w.r.t SQ ?


----------



## WillTirta

audio123 said:


> is it :rolleyes:



Yes but not the transparant one.. lol..maybe faaeal make its own transparant version.. since it is is written 定制版。。custom edition


----------



## audio123

willtirta said:


> Yes but not the transparant one.. lol..maybe faaeal make its own transparant version.. since it is is written 定制版。。custom edition


 

 ah yes i understand the words. cheers


----------



## rggz

Hey guys, after golov's posted a picture of Cygnus driver and I thought how close PK2 DIY driver looks similar I ended buying a pair to check it and the seller crafted for me, looks awesome as Cygnus too! atm I have this mic miniDSP UMIK-1 then when it arrives I'll try to measure both, maybe can we have a surprise?
 


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, finally getting a straight down MMCX cable (just a disclaimer this one was really quite a cheap cable, so it's affect on the sound may be considered an issue for some), I'm giving the 15mm detachable earbud a try with no burn in so far.  Keeping in mind that my tastes lean towards a more bass-centric sound, the bass is light compared to the mids and treble.  I'd have to dig it out of storage, but from memory it reminds me of the Ety HF5's bass.  Vocals and instruments feel nice and clear, and Beethoven's 7th Symphony Allegretto (my copy is a vinyl rip of a 1964 performance, so not perfect) sounds really quite lovely, but not going to have the instrument separation of something like the Rose Mojito.  Nobuo Uematsu's Opera Maria and Draco off the Distant Worlds album also sounds really quite solid, so I'm guessing this earbud would be well suited with classical and maybe something like Tom Petty's Wildflowers album.
  
 So, based off initial impressions, for $25 (which doesn't include a cable) I'd say it's a fairly solid earbud for classical music, but felt lackluster with Radiohead's Nude off In Rainbows, so more bass oriented music won't have the weight it deserves.  Honestly, I was expecting a bassier sound from a 15mm driver, but vocals and many instruments sound actually pretty good.


----------



## ClieOS

rggz said:


> Hey guys, after golov's posted a picture of Cygnus driver and I thought *how close PK2 DIY driver looks similar* I ended buying a pair to check it and the seller crafted for me, looks awesome as Cygnus too! atm I have this mic miniDSP UMIK-1 then when it arrives I'll try to measure both, maybe can we have a surprise?


 
  
 They look just like the hundreds of earbuds driver I have seen from different models of different brands on different price. I think you are overthinking it.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> They look just like the hundreds of earbuds driver I have seen from different models of different brands on different price. I think you are overthinking it.


agree..


----------



## rggz

clieos said:


> They look* just like the hundreds of earbuds driver I have seen* from different models of different brands on different price. I think you are overthinking it.


 

 That's just fun, not a big deal and I'm not telling is the same, sorry if my bad english indicated that. Ofc you have a lot more experience and probably they will sound worst than Cygnus, but for a "vintage" driver they share some characteristics as that specific Yuin driver over the Sony, Aiwa, etc... and If we look Cygnus design is just a copy of Yuin PK series. But probably those characteristics of that driver is just aesthetics and the same impedance, in the end will be fun measure and check it.


----------



## golov17

I think it can be compared with the SQ Shozy DIY earbuds, but not Cygnus, IMHO


----------



## ryanjsoo

I messaged Shozy regarding the drivers and they stated that they use "some old stuff" and are "more than responsible for transplanting the driver". So perhaps they do some additional tuning with dampening, etc? Who knows, the Cygnus subjectively sounds very good to me however; I`m not really fussed about the driver, just the end result.


----------



## ClieOS

rggz said:


> That's just fun, not a big deal and I'm not telling is the same, sorry if my bad english indicated that. Ofc you have a lot more experience and probably they will sound worst than Cygnus, but for a "vintage" driver they share some characteristics as that specific Yuin driver over the Sony, Aiwa, etc... and If we look *Cygnus design is just a copy of Yuin PK series*. But probably those characteristics of that driver is just aesthetics and the same impedance, in the end will be fun measure and check it.


 
  
 Yuin might have made a name on that housing design, but for what I know, it was used by some Japanese / Korean OEM earbdus in the past. So I won't be so quick on calling who copying who - not that it matters much among the Chinese earbuds maker, since they seldom use any original design. That why you can't (and shouldn't) tell them part by look alone.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Actually, I have been meaning to ask for a while:

 How do manufactures tuned same specs driver to have somewhat different sounding? (ceteris paribus with housings, cable and jacks)

 Do they flock the housing differently?
 Do they perhaps solder on some resistor to the driver change the sound?

 It has been a great mystery to me.....


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> Actually, I have been meaning to ask for a while:
> 
> How do manufactures tuned same specs driver to have somewhat different sounding? (ceteris paribus with housings, cable and jacks)
> 
> ...


 
  
 Diaphragm material, composition, and thickness. voice coil material and wire thickness, housing design, internal dampening, open vs. close vs. semi-open, front grill  / vent, etc. Everything that can be changed, can be used for tuning. Impedance is only a very small part of whole design, and certainly not a determine factor of how a driver should sound like. Sometime two driver might look similar in spec, but can be very different sounding because they really just 'look' similar by eyes, but not by measurement. Even a simple open vs. close design can change how the same driver behaves.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

While testing a few recent earbud arrivals, I snapped a few pictures.
  
  
*VE Asura 2.0:*


  
  
*NoSounD Blur (Thin and Lean):*


  
  
  
 The Asura 2.0 has a smoother, thicker sound than the original version. 

 The Blur (Thin and Lean) is a little dark for my liking.  It has a boost to the bass which does muffle the mids and highs a bit.
  
 --


----------



## audio123

bloodypenguin said:


> While testing a few recent earbud arrivals, I snapped a few pictures.
> 
> 
> *VE Asura 2.0:*
> ...


 

 great work mate. any tips to take nice iem photos


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audio123 said:


> great work mate. any tips to take nice iem photos


 
  
 A Tripod, Good Lighting and TONS of Patience.  
  
 You don't need fancy equipment.  I don't have any.  All my stuff is SUPER budget.  
  
 --


----------



## Saoshyant

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-New-Original-Speaker-Unit-With-Shell-can-change-wire-150-ohms-Original-Red-Film-without/32653325595.html
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-New-Original-****-PK1-15mm-Driver-Speaker-Unit-With-Shell-MMCX-Connector-In-Ear-Earburd/32653345463.html
  
 The first one (leftmost in picture) states it uses the PK1 driver, while the other (white cable) has a 15mm driver.  Just put them both on the burner, so I'm curious to see how they do once I pull them off.  And just a disclaimer, neither come with an MMCX cable, so if you decide to try em out, be prepared.


----------



## audio123

bloodypenguin said:


> A Tripod, Good Lighting and TONS of Patience.
> 
> You don't need fancy equipment.  I don't have any.  All my stuff is SUPER budget.
> 
> --


 

 thanks mate will keep on practising cheers!


----------



## ClieOS

saoshyant said:


> The first one (leftmost in picture) states *it uses the PK1 driver*, while the other (white cable) has a 15mm driver.


 
  
 They keep saying that, perhaps just hoping one day it might come true.


----------



## Saoshyant

clieos said:


> They keep saying that, perhaps just hoping one day it might come true.




Yes, it would be nice, especially given the price and it being detachable. Initial sound seems promising at least.


----------



## jamesbdh

any recommendations for a cheaper pair(<$30~$40) with an in line microphone.  Prefer neutral sound and wider soundstage.  Was impressed by what the monks can do and like being able to hear the outside world sometimes.


----------



## DarkZenith

bloodypenguin said:


> While testing a few recent earbud arrivals, I snapped a few pictures.
> 
> 
> *VE Asura 2.0:*
> ...


 

 Nice pictures, *BloodyPenguin* !
 Do you have a link for the Blur Thin & Lean ? I love bassy earbuds but couldn't find those ones anywhere...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Diaphragm material, composition, and thickness. voice coil material and wire thickness, housing design, internal dampening, open vs. close vs. semi-open, front grill  / vent, etc. Everything that can be changed, can be used for tuning. Impedance is only a very small part of whole design, and certainly not a determine factor of how a driver should sound like. Sometime two driver might look similar in spec, but can be very different sounding because they really just 'look' similar by eyes, but not by measurement. Even a simple open vs. close design can change how the same driver behaves.


 
 Thank-you very much once again for the very very informative reply sifu.

 Never fail to learn something new hahaha


----------



## BloodyPenguin

darkzenith said:


> Nice pictures, *BloodyPenguin* !
> Do you have a link for the Blur Thin & Lean ? I love bassy earbuds but couldn't find those ones anywhere...


 
  
 The contact info has been posted a few times, so I just sent you a PM.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 --


----------



## DarkZenith

Thanks.


----------



## Alex92

*Guys please advise something similar in sound to Grado*


----------



## audio123

alex92 said:


> *Guys please advise something similar in sound to Grado*


 

 which grado products?


----------



## Alex92

Earbuds Round-Up With a sound like a flow of Grado


----------



## audio123

alex92 said:


> Earbuds Round-Up With a sound like a flow of Grado


 

 we cant help if you dont specify the exact model


----------



## Alex92

I love the sound feed Grado GS1000  And I want to find a similar sound of Earbuds Round-Up .
 I love the detailed treble.


----------



## golov17

alex92 said:


> I love the sound feed Grado GS1000  And I want to find a similar sound of Earbuds Round-Up .
> I love the detailed treble.


maybe..


----------



## golov17

Now TY Hi-Z from Penon http://s.aliexpress.com/7NvyQzmq


----------



## ryanjsoo

Just recieved a pack of hiegi foams from penon, but the centre cutout is very large, much larger than all my other foams and different to penons website. 





I'm just worried they wont fit my Cygnus properly. Did i recieve a bad batch?


----------



## golov17

ryanjsoo said:


> Just recieved a pack of hiegi foams from penon, but the centre cutout is very large, much larger than all my other foams and different to penons website.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


no, all right


----------



## ryanjsoo

Thanks Golov, just opened them up and installed on my Cygnus. They looks a little strange, but the sound is definitely improved; a little more midrange detail and clarity in general, bass seems a tad tighter and defined. For $3, big thumbs up from me! Now back to listening....


----------



## ld100

golov17 said:


> no, all right


 
  
  
 That wire it so green! Oh my...


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> Now TY Hi-Z from Penon http://s.aliexpress.com/7NvyQzmq


 
 Same box/housing/cable as SeaHf 400ohm


----------



## ClieOS

vapman said:


> Same box/housing/cable as SeaHf 400ohm


 
  
 They are pretty much made by the same guy, what else would you expect?


----------



## music4mhell

clieos said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > Same box/housing/cable as SeaHf 400ohm
> ...


 
 If i am not wrong, SEAHF, DARKHORSE and now TY Hi-Z all have same sound quality ?


----------



## ld100

music4mhell said:


> If i am not wrong, SEAHF, DARKHORSE and now TY Hi-Z all have same sound quality ?


 
  
 How are they?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

music4mhell said:


> If i am not wrong, SEAHF, DARKHORSE and now TY Hi-Z all have same sound quality ?




Iff I remebered correctly, Ive mentioned before that they are tuned somewhat differently from one another.

SeaHF dark SS
TY HiZ more Balanced. Taobao is already selling new version of 150ohms, and new 400 ohms is in the works
There is also new 400, 320, and 150 from earphone association (darkhorse)


----------



## music4mhell

audionewbi3 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > If i am not wrong, SEAHF, DARKHORSE and now TY Hi-Z all have same sound quality ?
> ...


 
 Ohk then let me order TY Hi-Z from penon and check with my darkhorse G400.


----------



## fairx

Just arrived. Busy with work. Off you go. To the burn machine.!!


----------



## ld100

fairx said:


> Just arrived. Busy with work. Off you go. To the burn machine.!!


 
  
 Very interested to hear what you think about them!


----------



## fairx

ld100 said:


> Very interested to hear what you think about them!


 
 well from the first listen from my iphone, without foam, it sounded verry hollow..
 right now burn around 1 hour+- and listen again.. very resolving but also very bright. intimate sound
  
 Real impression might have to wait till tonight as my work environment can be quite noisy (open door, near streets)


----------



## Danneq

fairx said:


> well from the first listen from my iphone, without foam, it sounded verry hollow..
> right now burn around 1 hour+- and listen again.. very resolving but also very bright. intimate sound
> 
> Real impression might have to wait till tonight as my work environment can be quite noisy (open door, near streets)


 

 You definitely need foams on the Tomahawks. I started with donut foams but it was a bit too bright so I changed to full foams. That was my sweet spot and now I love them.


----------



## Danneq

alex92 said:


> I love the sound feed Grado GS1000  And I want to find a similar sound of Earbuds Round-Up .
> I love the detailed treble.


 


 Celsus Gramo One might be another suggestion.


----------



## fairx

danneq said:


> You definitely need foams on the Tomahawks. I started with donut foams but it was a bit too bright so I changed to full foams. That was my sweet spot and now I love them.




A few hours and finally using the foam. Nice and comfy actually. Sound wise, Whoa. It was nothing like I ever heard before. Argh! Busy with work. Can't listen properly yet. Back to burn machine.


----------



## ryanjsoo

danneq said:


> You definitely need foams on the Tomahawks. I started with donut foams but it was a bit too bright so I changed to full foams. That was my sweet spot and now I love them.


 
  
 So true, I like how the Tomahawks are designed to be used with foams. Some bassier earbuds are far too low end dominant with foams but lose out on extension without them. The Tomahawks are the best of both worlds, still quite neutral but also extended with foams. Of course Monk+ foams achieve almost the same effect, but I found the Tomahawks to be a little too thin.


----------



## fairx

around 5 hours of burn, while I'm still busy with work my friends came over and I let them try the half cooked tomahawk.

Most response are positive and engaging. But one friend who owns couple of Sony, Senns and monk+ amuses me.

"it's like being handed an instrument, shown how it's played and then smash it to my face!"

LOL hard.


----------



## ClieOS

music4mhell said:


> If i am not wrong, SEAHF, DARKHORSE and now TY Hi-Z all have same sound quality ?


 
  
 SeaHF = Bug guy, the original maker  / OEM for both Headphone Association, (presumably) DarkHouse as well as TY Hi-Z. Note that I said 'presumably' because DarkHouse is a brand invented by AE seller and not directly associated with Bug guy. Headphone Association and TY Hi-Z on the other hand are both working with Bug bug directly - therefore by reason of elimination, DarkHouse is probably either Headphone Association or TY Hi-Z.
  
 Here is the difference between Headphone Association's and Hi-Z's 400ohm:
  


clieos said:


> The Hi-Z 400ohm has arrived, here are its measurement against Headphone Association 400ohm, both naked as well as with foam:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

danneq said:


> You definitely need foams on the Tomahawks. I started with donut foams but it was a bit too bright so I changed to full foams. That was my sweet spot and now I love them.


 

 "Foam Rolling"?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 I do the same thing.  There is a right foam for the right earbud, I just have to find it.  
  
 I must say, I do love those light VE Red/Blue covers Lee sends out with his stuff.
  
 --


----------



## Danneq

bloodypenguin said:


> "Foam Rolling"?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Just ordered some of those new VE foams.





 Oh.... And also a pair of Monk+ comes with them....


----------



## BloodyPenguin

danneq said:


> Just ordered some of those new VE foams.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh.... And also a pair of Monk+ comes with them....


 
  
 Buy Foams and Get a Bonus Earbud!


----------



## golov17

Pic from ELI  




PS. 64 Ohm


----------



## audio123

golov17 said:


> Pic from ELI
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 that some decent shot. golov u getting?


----------



## golov17

I don' know now..


----------



## audio123

golov17 said:


> I don' know now..


 

 that sounds like a yes
 matter of time i guess


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> that sounds like a yes
> matter of time i guess


 I am afraid that they may be too bright for my preferences..


----------



## audio123

golov17 said:


> I am afraid that they may be too bright for my preferences..


 

 u prefer a balanced sounding earbuds i supposed mid centric


----------



## golov17

Remax rm303 good


----------



## golov17

On the Custom


----------



## WillTirta

audio123 said:


> that some decent shot. golov u getting?



Yes they will launch 400 ohm.. but not with that transparant housing..thats 64 ohm Custom edition.. at least thats what the taobao seller said..


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> Remax rm303 good


 
 What do you think it's similar to?


----------



## ZerkMeister

golov17 said:


> Pic from ELI
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I thought the buds said Falafel, and then I got hungry. lol


----------



## ld100

zerkmeister said:


> I thought the buds said Falafel, and then I got hungry. lol


 
  
  
 Where do you get these from? 
  
 Are they good?
  
 Enlighten me please.


----------



## fairx

After listening critically with tomahawk I'm starting to question my iPhone dac and amp quality. Swapping between my iPhone and SGS reveal that iPhone is too cold and digital sounding. Not good synergy. Monk also doesn't play nice with iPhone. I'm considering shanling m2 as DAP. & otg dac. And I saw couple of user in this thread using shanling. How do they fare with earbud? 

BTW, although it's still early to judge the tomahawk, I'm enjoying it very much now. Very open sounding. Effortlessly detail. Highly resolving yet very smooth.


----------



## vapman

fairx said:


> After listening critically with tomahawk I'm starting to question my iPhone dac and amp quality. Swapping between my iPhone and SGS reveal that iPhone is too cold and digital sounding. Not good synergy. Monk also doesn't play nice with iPhone. I'm considering shanling m2 as DAP. & otg dac. And I saw couple of user in this thread using shanling. How do they fare with earbud?
> 
> BTW, although it's still early to judge the tomahawk, I'm enjoying it very much now. Very open sounding. Effortlessly detail. Highly resolving yet very smooth.


 

 I've been interested to see how the M2 stacks up against the Xduoo X3, even though I would never get rid of my X3.


----------



## fleasbaby

vapman said:


> I've been interested to see how the M2 stacks up against the Xduoo X3, even though I would never get rid of my X3.


 
  
@vapman I participated in a Shanling M2 tour. Beautiful, smooth analogue sound. One of the better presentations I have heard in a DAP. Before you decide though, try the Aune M2. (confusing, I know...same model number, different maker). Short battery life, Class A amplification though. I thought it better than the Shanling.


----------



## vapman

fleasbaby said:


> @vapman I participated in a Shanling M2 tour. Beautiful, smooth analogue sound. One of the better presentations I have heard in a DAP. Before you decide though, try the Aune M2. (confusing, I know...same model number, different maker). Short battery life, Class A amplification though. I thought it better than the Shanling.


 

 I know you know the Shozy Alien, you're not familiar with the Xduoo X3 are you?


----------



## fleasbaby

vapman said:


> I know you know the Shozy Alien, you're not familiar with the Xduoo X3 are you?


 
 No...


----------



## golov17

fleasbaby said:


> @vapman
> I participated in a Shanling M2 tour. Beautiful, smooth analogue sound. One of the better presentations I have heard in a DAP. Before you decide though, try the Aune M2. (confusing, I know...same model number, different maker). Short battery life, Class A amplification though. I thought it better than the Shanling.


----------



## ZerkMeister

Off topic: But its so awesome!
  

  

 I have obtained the forbidden fruit. Sealed brand new .


----------



## ZerkMeister

Just noticed something interesting. Doesnt look like original charger nor does it come with the black bag.


----------



## golov17

zerkmeister said:


> Off topic: But its so awesome!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Congrats!


----------



## golov17

zerkmeister said:


> Just noticed something interesting. Doesnt look like original charger nor does it come with the black bag.


my too, normal


----------



## ZerkMeister

golov17 said:


> my too, normal


 
 Awesome. Thanks for pointing me towards Shenzhen.
 And now confirming its legit lol.
 Thank You!


----------



## vapman

fleasbaby said:


> No...


 

 No worries. I've just been hoping to find a X3 vs M2 comparison for  a while.


----------



## golov17

zerkmeister said:


> Awesome. Thanks for pointing me towards Shenzhen.
> And now confirming its legit lol.
> Thank You!



http://www.head-fi.org/t/644363/c-c-bh-portable-headphone-amp-80-hours-from-a-single-charge-buyer-review


----------



## fairx

zerkmeister said:


> Off topic: But its so awesome!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 huhu.. I thought they're out of stock long ago..


----------



## music4mhell

At the end, i am listening to Zen 2 only 
 No matter how expensive or better sounding earbuds i buy, at the end i come back to Zen 2 only


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> At the end, i am listening to Zen 2 only
> No matter how expensive or better sounding earbuds i buy, at the end i come back to Zen 2 only



Magic


----------



## Danneq

Different people find different favorites.

 I've got a bunch of earbuds that I rank above Tomahawk in performance (Blox TM7, Sony MDR-E252, Zen 1, Cygnus, Ting, Sennheiser OMX980 & MX985...). Still I most often pick Tomahawk as my "go to" earbud.

 Well, if I didn't worry about TM7 breaking, I might pick that one as my "go to" earbud, but I don't want it to break.


----------



## fairx

danneq said:


> Different people find different favorites.
> 
> I've got a bunch of earbuds that I rank above Tomahawk in performance (Blox TM7, Sony MDR-E252, Zen 1, Cygnus, Ting, Sennheiser OMX980 & MX985...). Still I most often pick Tomahawk as my "go to" earbud.
> 
> Well, if I didn't worry about TM7 breaking, I might pick that one as my "go to" earbud, but I don't want it to break.


 
 lets say, if ting is 9, how much would you rate Tomahawk. I'm trying to gauge the price : performance ratio


----------



## Danneq

Perhaps 7,5? They have a very similar sound but at the same time a very different type of presentation where Tomahawk is very forward sounding while Ting is more distance sounding. So Ting works better if you want to do analytical listening, but it also works great on the go. I just raise the volume a little bit compared to Tomahawk.

 But Tomahawk for me is just so fun sounding with great detail at the same time.


----------



## fairx

danneq said:


> Perhaps 7,5? They have a very similar sound but at the same time a very different type of presentation where Tomahawk is very forward sounding while Ting is more distance sounding. So Ting works better if you want to do analytical listening, but it also works great on the go. I just raise the volume a little bit compared to Tomahawk.
> 
> But Tomahawk for me is just so fun sounding with great detail at the same time.


 
 Thanks for the scale 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm having tough time describing Tomahawk sound. To be honest they sound awesome!
  
 I'm not new to forward mids but this is different. I CANT pinpoint exactly where the music is but I know that it's there. the division seems blurry but no.. no way they're blurry because I'm hearing great details an not losing focus (even if I tried to) at the same time. It's not liquid, its not smooth it's not the opposite either. One song you heard it "this way" and the next song, when you "think" you had it, BAM! then it threw away your expectation. Any time you think the song sound kinda "meh" next few seconds it explode in your face to reminds you "I'm here!!"
  
 They sound like intimate, but very open and big too! and the only iem/earbud/headphone I had that sound convincingly 360°, no more missing  passage / detach / blurry when music panning  in hard front or hard back in binaural recordings. superb! if only they're better at holographic it'll be perfect (for the price it's already a steal!)
  
 just my confused impressions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (for today).


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> Different people find different favorites.
> 
> I've got a bunch of earbuds that I rank above Tomahawk in performance (Blox TM7, Sony MDR-E252, Zen 1, Cygnus, Ting, Sennheiser OMX980 & MX985...). Still I most often pick Tomahawk as my "go to" earbud.
> 
> Well, if I didn't worry about TM7 breaking, I might pick that one as my "go to" earbud, but I don't want it to break.


 
 Try one Zen 2, you will be amazed


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> Try one Zen 2, you will be amazed


 
  
 Had it. Didn't really like the sound and traded it for a pair of Zen 1 (which I love).


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Try one Zen 2, you will be amazed
> ...


 
 Oopss .. sorry.


----------



## Danneq




----------



## Danneq

I imagine that the only thing that can beat TM7, at least in my ears, is a new flagship earbud from Blox or Aiwa's legendary V99. I think we have to wait a loooong time for a new Blox flagship earbud and it's difficult to find a pair of those old Aiwas. And if you do you have to pay $500 or more...


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> I imagine that the only thing that can beat TM7, at least in my ears, is a new flagship earbud from Blox or Aiwa's legendary V99. I think we ave to wait a loooong time for a new Blox flagship earbud and it's difficult to find a pair of those old Aiwas. And if you do you have to pay $500 or more...


 
 May be VE Nirvana 2017 ?


----------



## fairx

Id love to hear Blox tm7 one day. Hope someone who have them in Malaysia would bring to meet.


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> May be VE Nirvana 2017 ?


 
  
 Are they supposed to be at the same level or above Zen? If they can improve on Zen (1 for me), that is possible.

 By the way, didn't you buy a pair of Astrotec Lyra? How did you like them?


----------



## AudioNewbi3




----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


>


mojito


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> mojito


----------



## Danneq

Shower drain?



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


>


----------



## ZerkMeister

fairx said:


> huhu.. I thought they're out of stock long ago..:blink:



When I contacted shenzhen, they originally emailed me saying that they don't but then a few hours later I got an email that they had one left. I was pretty hyped.


----------



## golov17

zerkmeister said:


> When I contacted shenzhen, they originally emailed me saying that they don't but then a few hours later I got an email that they had one left. I was pretty hyped.


 a small bit of happiness


----------



## fleasbaby

fairx said:


> Thanks for the scale
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I get what you're saying. I always put them on and think the bass is too shallow/recessed, or they have rolled off highs....then a couple of minutes in, I realize that they just have a really, really nice, easy-going presentation. Very enjoyable sound signature...


----------



## golov17

fleasbaby said:


> I get what you're saying. I always put them on and think the bass is too shallow/recessed, or they have rolled off highs....then a couple of minutes in, I realize that they just have a really, really nice, easy-going presentation. Very enjoyable sound signature...


you compare it with mx980?


----------



## fleasbaby

golov17 said:


> you compare it with mx980?


 
 No...was tempted when I saw @Danneq list his MX980 in the classifieds. If its still available I might just bite and add them to my collection...


----------



## golov17

fleasbaby said:


> No...was tempted when I saw @Danneq
> list his MX980 in the classifieds. If its still available I might just bite and add them to my collection...


----------



## fleasbaby

golov17 said:


>


 
  
 Damn.


----------



## Danneq

fleasbaby said:


> Damn.


 


 There was quite a lot of interest in it. Not as much in Celsus Gramo One and the vintage Sony earbuds (even if I have gotten some PMs with questions and even offers...)


----------



## goldenSHK

@golov17 can you link to the Falafel earbuds you posted a few pages back? The clear shell ones? Are they any good ?


----------



## golov17

goldenshk said:


> @golov17
> can you link to the Falafel earbuds you posted a few pages back? The clear shell ones? Are they any good ?


 According to the guys from Indonesia, should be interesting for future..


----------



## ZerkMeister

@goldenSHK Lol you still called em falafel buds. Funny. Darn it makes me even hungrier.


----------



## fairx

Grr..

2 times already I lost my reply to this thread due to preview functions!! I wanted to rave my findings with tomahawk lol. Well guess shutting up about it is good too. 

BTW just to report (if anybody interested anyway) that after some more burn in the erratic in your face sound not a problem anymore. Maybe burn in maybe me getting familiar with it. 

Now I'll go back to my music, And the new foobar2000 on Android.

Edit 

Selamat menyambut Ramadan!


----------



## kurtextrem

bloodypenguin said:


> "Foam Rolling"?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I gotta say my Asura 2.0 sound better with Hiegi foams than with the VE Red/Blues


----------



## alizeofeniquito

golov17 said:


> Remax rm303 good


 
  
 how good is this remax?


----------



## golov17

alizeofeniquito said:


> how good is this remax?


for the price is very good..


----------



## music4mhell

Guys, is there any other good PC earbud like Edifier K180 ? I want mic pin and stereo pin to be separated.


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> for the price is very good..


 

 How is bass extension?


----------



## ClieOS

music4mhell said:


> Guys, is there any other good PC earbud like Edifier K180 ? I want mic pin and stereo pin to be separated.


 
  
 It will be much easier to get a smartphone headset, then a PC adapter.


----------



## ClieOS

BTW, just a heads up - begin in May, all new Ostry KC08 should have a new tuning. It will be the final tuning and there won't be any Chinese vs. Japanese version anymore. I do believe Ostry offers those in China who doesn't like the old tuning an exchange for the new version, though I don't know much of the detail. They also showcased KC08T in China a couple of weeks ago on trade show, not much detail on that yet except it will be an even better model than KC08.


----------



## supplehope

clieos said:


> BTW, just a heads up - begin in May, all new Ostry KC08 should have a new tuning. It will be the final tuning and there won't be any Chinese vs. Japanese version anymore. I do believe Ostry offers those in China who doesn't like the old tuning an exchange for the new version, though I don't know much of the detail. They also showcased KC08T in China a couple of weeks ago on trade show, not much detail on that yet except it will be an even better model than KC08.




Good for the mainland locals. Now that all the doubts have been cleared and I have cooled down (by cancelling/stop all purchases and settling with what I have), I would not hesitate to buy either the final KC08 or the KC08T if I have the opportunity to do so in the future.


----------



## vapman

Yup, i am pretty sure a TRRS to 2x TRS is the best option. @music4mhell


----------



## BloodyPenguin

While I "Foam Roll" quite a bit to find the right covers for a given earbud, I must say I really do love these light RED/BLUE versions from VE:
  

  
 --


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> While I "Foam Roll" quite a bit to find the right covers for a given earbud, I must say I really do love these light RED/BLUE versions from VE:
> 
> 
> 
> --


 
 To bad, you have to purchase them with a ve monk+ hahaha


----------



## fairx

I'm getting the ex pack. But will sell the monk to friends. Too bad they don't sell separately.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Gentleman, if you have not purchased the Good Sound Gadget Black Bud Supreme, then you _may_ be missing out on one fantastic earbud (to me at least).

 After 240+ hours of burn in they sound very very good. I would say even better than my Tomahawks

 Currently the soundstage of the BBS is only second to my DIY Dual Drivers
 Highs are tamed after burn in
 Mids to me are still the same
 Lows are more prominent now
 Details are equal to or just below my DIY Dual Drivers
  
 If DIY Dual Drivers is to be considered lean,
 then the GSG BBS would be considered a fuller sounding earbud. (Not as full as the Hawks)


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> How is bass extension?


good


----------



## golov17

Arrived 150,320,400 Ohm Seahf LD3.0.
400 really good, 150 for electronic music genres and dark sourses, 320 50/50


----------



## golov17

I would say that those who prefer Zen1.0 to go 320, those who loved Zen2.0 go on 400. IMHO


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> Gentleman, if you have not purchased the Good Sound Gadget Black Bud Supreme, then you _may_ be missing out on one fantastic earbud (to me at least).


 
  
 You've got my attention.  Can you either post, or PM me the link so I can check it out?
  
 --


----------



## CingKrab

golov17 said:


> Arrived 150,320,400 Ohm Seahf LD3.0.
> 400 really good, 150 for electronic music genres and dark sourses, 320 50/50




3.0? Are these different than the 2.0 HCK were selling?


----------



## ld100

golov17 said:


> Arrived 150,320,400 Ohm Seahf LD3.0.
> 400 really good, 150 for electronic music genres and dark sourses, 320 50/50


 
  
  
 How do you buy from them? I can't figure out a way to translate to English...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

All three can be bought here:
  
 (You have to cut and past the link):  http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Seahf-LD2-0-High-Impedance-320-ohms-400-ohms-Flat-Head-Plug-Earbud-Earphone-High/32653251745.html


----------



## vapman

@golov17 wow you bought all the SeaHf!!!
  
 Interesting you like 400 and 150 the most, i think i will buy a 150 in the future maybe?
  
 Does anyone else know any good high impedance buds?


----------



## ZerkMeister

@golov17
So you are saying 320 for electronic music.
So are the 400s more bassier in that sense?
More details please on sound signature.


----------



## vapman

zerkmeister said:


> @golov17
> So you are saying 320 for electronic music.
> So are the 400s more bassier in that sense?
> More details please on sound signature.




He said 150 for electronic and 320 was 50/50...

I'm interested how they compare in sound signature, if there is much variation.

I sold my seahf 400 for spending-money but I will probably buy again now that 3.0 is out


----------



## ZerkMeister

vapman said:


> He said 150 for electronic and 320 was 50/50...
> 
> I'm interested how they compare in sound signature, if there is much variation.
> 
> I sold my seahf 400 for spending-money but I will probably buy again now that 3.0 is out



Wow I read that completely wrong.
Thanks.


----------



## vapman

Anyone know the difference between the green and red Ting?
 Green is $36, red is $75?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> Anyone know the difference between the green and red Ting?
> Green is $36, red is $75?




Red (Original Ting) is more detailed and balanced. Housing and cable are a bit more premium. Red has a wider soundstage.

Green (Ting Light) is a simpler sound with a little less emphasis on the lows. Build quality is slightly less.


I like them both for what they can do.


----------



## fairx

audionewbi3 said:


> Gentleman, if you have not purchased the Good Sound Gadget Black Bud Supreme, then you _may_ be missing out on one fantastic earbud (to me at least).
> 
> After 240+ hours of burn in they sound very very good. I would say even better than my Tomahawks
> 
> ...


 
 really interested, how is the fit? tomahawk sometimes have tricky fit because of the size
 also, hows the 150ohm drivebility?


----------



## vapman

I remember reading Edifier H180 benefitted a lot from a cable upgrade.
 Does anyone have a recabled H185 or H186p?
 Just wondering if they're worth the extra money.
  
 Regardless, I bought a new H180 to recable and a Remax on Golov's recommendation...
  
 I remember @Joy Boy i think saying Demun cable helped H180 a lot? Wondering if that was with an amp though....


----------



## Tympan

golov17 said:


> I would say that those who prefer Zen1.0 to go 320, those who loved Zen2.0 go on 400. IMHO


 

 Are the 320 pretty close to Zen 1.0 or just somewhat similar? Btw, the cable looks like Cygnus a little bit!!!


----------



## golov17

I need time to burn and listen, guys, for detailed description...This first impressions.


----------



## golov17

ld100 said:


> How do you buy from them? I can't figure out a way to translate to English...


 New Seahf LD-3.0 High Impedance In Ear Earphone 150 ohms/ 320 ohms/400 ohms Flat Head Plug High Impedance Free Shipping
 http://s.aliexpress.com/6bUjueaA 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## golov17

tympan said:


> Are the 320 pretty close to Zen 1.0 or just somewhat similar? Btw, the cable looks like Cygnus a little bit!!!


 close to Zen1.0, yes..
Cygnus cable more soft & best..


----------



## AudioNewbi3

To my knowledge, BugGuys (SeaHF) used to be the driver producer for ZEN 1. Hell my SeaHf V1 have the same driver as ZEN 1. 

However, you do have to remember although they have the same driver, they maybe tuned differently.


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> Yup, i am pretty sure a TRRS to 2x TRS is the best option. @music4mhell


 
 For ?


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> For ?


 

 Sorry. this:
  


music4mhell said:


> Guys, is there any other good PC earbud like Edifier K180 ? I want mic pin and stereo pin to be separated.


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > For ?
> ...


 
 Ohk now i got it, ya that's true, let me buy a PC adapter and then use any earbud with mic


----------



## ld100

golov17 said:


> close to Zen1.0, yes..
> Cygnus cable more soft & best..


 
  
 Would you recommend Cygnus over getting one of these?


----------



## music4mhell

ld100 said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > close to Zen1.0, yes..
> ...


 
 cygnus is a better allrounder with better fir and low resistance


----------



## vapman

ld100 said:


> Would you recommend Cygnus over getting one of these?


 

 cygnus with its low resistance is probably going to be easier to drive than these higher impedance buds, but cygnus is harder to amp for that reason too. depends on your needs & wants


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> ld100 said:
> 
> 
> > Would you recommend Cygnus over getting one of these?
> ...


 
 That's why i use impedance adapter with cygnus and Ting


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> That's why i use impedance adapter with cygnus and Ting


 

 What's your preferred adapter?
 I was thinking about building some with 3.5mm female-female connectors.


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > That's why i use impedance adapter with cygnus and Ting
> ...


 
 I use DUNU 75/150 Ohms adapter with Ting and Cygnus, but not with Zen or Dark horse earbuds.


----------



## vapman

Thanks for the info!
  
 I will probably just grab a lot of resistors as they cost literally pennies each, and I can get a big pack of these for a couple dollars, make myself all the impedance adapters I want for easier amp use


----------



## golov17

Well, ordered Edimun, I want to try them


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> Well, ordered Edimun, I want to try them


 




 I bought the plain H180 and was going to recable myself...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

fairx said:


> really interested, how is the fit? tomahawk sometimes have tricky fit because of the size
> also, hows the 150ohm drivebility?


 
 The fit is definitely better than the Tomahawks. GSG BBS uses Yuin/Cygnus housing, which is smaller compared to the standard MX500 and the Tomahawks housing. 

 As for drivebility, I can't say for sure because I am either using them with my Xduo X3 alone or with some other Taobao Amp.


----------



## luedriver

vapman said:


> Thanks for the info!
> 
> I will probably just grab a lot of resistors as they cost literally pennies each, and I can get a big pack of these for a couple dollars, make myself all the impedance adapters I want for easier amp use


 
  
  
 where do you buy them?


----------



## fairx

audionewbi3 said:


> The fit is definitely better than the Tomahawks. GSG BBS uses Yuin/Cygnus housing, which is smaller compared to the standard MX500 and the Tomahawks housing.
> 
> 
> As for drivebility, I can't say for sure because I am either using them with my Xduo X3 alone or with some other Taobao Amp.




In the end I might grab the Cygnus because of low impedance. No amp no high Z earbud. 

Do you reckon Cygnus will be better upgrade or more side upgrade with better build / fit compared to hawks?


----------



## ryanjsoo

fairx said:


> In the end I might grab the Cygnus because of low impedance. No amp no high Z earbud.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 What is it you don`t like about the Tomahawk that makes you want to upgrade? If you like the brighter sound, the Cygnus may be a "downgrade" to you. Also, the Cygnus is more sensitive than the Tomahawk and pretty much any other bud I`ve tested except for the Baldoor E100.


----------



## Danneq

ryanjsoo said:


> What is it you don`t like about the Tomahawk that makes you want to upgrade?


 

 It might be a case of upgradeitis...


----------



## fairx

ryanjsoo said:


> What is it you don`t like about the Tomahawk that makes you want to upgrade? If you like the brighter sound, the Cygnus may be a "downgrade" to you. Also, the Cygnus is more sensitive than the Tomahawk and pretty much any other bud I`ve tested except for the Baldoor E100.



Haha nothing actually. Tomahawk easily the best sounding of anything besides customs that I ever auditioned recently. It's just I'm pretty astonished by what earbud can offer. It open my eyes to how good sound it produces for small price. It made me wonder if I'm missing something up in the line. 

But if theres anything I would complain is the fit. But I can live with it. Minor pain in ear after 2-3 hour is actually good measure that I shouldn't be listening for too long anyway. 

There's also news that Cygnus might not always be available since they're limited NOS driver. I should grab one just for the sake of it. 

My current iem is Soundmagic e80 and even that is brighter and sibilant prone Hawks just right to my ear. Perhaps I wish hawks mid could be a little bit sweeter? I have a hunch that hawks very scalable with source upgrade. I will look into auditioning a couple of dap in a few weeks 

BTW Cygnus are bit tame in the upper department?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

fairx said:


> Haha nothing actually. Tomahawk easily the best sounding of anything besides customs that I ever auditioned recently. It's just I'm pretty astonished by what earbud can offer. It open my eyes to how good sound it produces for small price. It made me wonder if I'm missing something up in the line.
> 
> But if theres anything I would complain is the fit. But I can live with it. Minor pain in ear after 2-3 hour is actually good measure that I shouldn't be listening for too long anyway.
> 
> ...


 
 The Cygnus' sound signature will be "duller" when compared to the Tomahawks. Soundstaging is also slightly less (in terms of width). Details on the other hand, Cygnus will win hands down (to me at least). I find the Mids of the Cygnus to be more natural as well.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

On a side note:

  

  
 Tomahawks reporting for burn-in joining the ranks of:

  

  
 Lastly, I really feel good when I see that all my earbuds are free from dust.....(maybe I am just paranoid about dust getting into the drivers, thus the zip-lock packets.

 Feels good


----------



## fairx

Oh? A burning journal? I'm pretty sure my hawk settle down after around 20-30 hours. How's your findings?


----------



## fleasbaby

golov17 said:


> close to Zen1.0, yes..
> Cygnus cable more soft & best..


 
  
 This is interesting...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

fairx said:


> Oh? A burning journal? I'm pretty sure my hawk settle down after around 20-30 hours. How's your findings?


 
 Just started, will report back after at least 200 hours of burn in hahaha.


----------



## vapman

fairx said:


> Haha nothing actually. Tomahawk easily the best sounding of anything besides customs that I ever auditioned recently. It's just I'm pretty astonished by what earbud can offer. It open my eyes to how good sound it produces for small price. It made me wonder if I'm missing something up in the line.
> 
> But if theres anything I would complain is the fit. But I can live with it. Minor pain in ear after 2-3 hour is actually good measure that I shouldn't be listening for too long anyway.
> 
> ...


 

 In my experience tomahawk doesn't scale with better source/amps at all. It sounded completely the same to me whether I used a phone or a nice tube amp...


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> In my experience tomahawk doesn't scale with better source/amps at all. It sounded completely the same to me whether I used a phone or a nice tube amp...




I'm a Tomahawk fan and I agree with you...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> In my experience tomahawk doesn't scale with better source/amps at all. It sounded completely the same to me whether I used a phone or a nice tube amp...


 
  


danneq said:


> I'm a Tomahawk fan and I agree with you...


 
  
 I 100% agree as well.  They sound just as good to me from my phone to my fancy Amp/DAC setups.


----------



## vapman

luedriver said:


> where do you buy them?


 
 http://www.mouser.com/
 http://www.digikey.com/
  
 http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/resistors/through-hole-resistors/66690
  
 I will use these when my 3.5mm adapters show up... http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/stackpole-electronics-inc/RSMF3JT390R/RSMF3JT390RCT-ND/2021892


----------



## Wyrdrune

vapman said:
			
		

> I bought the plain H180 and was going to recable myself...




That's a bit extreme...







and yet I can't help but to lust for a direct cranial line-in...


----------



## vapman

Anyone know  if these are similar/equivalent to SeaHf 320ohm?
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-Go-Pro-FAAEAL-300ohm-In-Ear-Earbuds-High-Impedance-300ohms-Flat-Head-Plug-Earburd-Alloy/519064_32671274875.html
  
 I was also thinking about getting a Ting Light but I am waiting to hear back from De'mun about shipping costs of a Edimun to USA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I know Bloodypenguin has a Ting Light but anyone else here got one?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> I know Bloodypenguin has a Ting Light but anyone else here got one?


 
  
 My Ting Light had an bit of a build issue, waiting for a replacement before I fully test it:


----------



## fairx

bloodypenguin said:


> I 100% agree as well.  They sound just as good to me from my phone to my fancy Amp/DAC setups.





vapman said:


> In my experience tomahawk doesn't scale with better source/amps at all. It sounded completely the same to me whether I used a phone or a nice tube amp...




I'm not sure about amp myself but I hear differently from various phone internal dac. For instance on my iPhone it sound lean and brittle compared to my Samsung. Sounded even better from Q1 dac / amp (low gain) which I used not to like when paired with my other iem. I loaned tomahawk to friend and he think the same too. The bad thing is I already sold my Q1 to him lol.


----------



## vapman

@AudioNewbi3 Where can you buy the DIY dual driver?
  
 I am gonna buy the Edimun as soon as the De'mun guy writes me back with a final shipping quote and then i'll probably take it easy on buds for a while.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> @AudioNewbi3
> Where can you buy the DIY dual driver?
> 
> I am gonna buy the Edimun as soon as the De'mun guy writes me back with a final shipping quote and then i'll probably take it easy on buds for a while.


 DIY Handmade PHEB01 24ohm Hi-Fi DDM Dual Diaphragm Matrix Dynamic Audiophile Earphone Earbuds
 http://s.aliexpress.com/ErqqEzyi


----------



## luedriver

vapman said:


> http://www.mouser.com/
> http://www.digikey.com/
> 
> http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/resistors/through-hole-resistors/66690
> ...


 
  
  
 I thought you meant something already made, like in the previous pics, idk anything about diy adapters with resistors


----------



## vapman

luedriver said:


> I thought you meant something already made, like in the previous pics, idk anything about diy adapters with resistors


 

 I did not post any pictures of already made adapters. I posted pictures of 3.5mm stereo to 3.5mm stereo adapters, which seems completely useless at first glance, but one can add a resistor inline and boom, adapter is made.


----------



## luedriver

vapman said:


> I did not post any pictures of already made adapters. I posted pictures of 3.5mm stereo to 3.5mm stereo adapters, which seems completely useless at first glance, but one can add a resistor inline and boom, adapter is made.


 
 when I quoted you the first time it was a post with a picture, I misread what you said, I was in a rush that day, something about making adapters for a few dollars each


----------



## vapman

luedriver said:


> when I quoted you the first time it was a post with a picture, I misread what you said, I was in a rush that day, something about making adapters for a few dollars each


 

 If you get some of the resistors you want from a diy source like the sites i linked, or whatever is better for you if you are not in the USA, and then you can get some of those 3.5mm adapters for dirt cheap.... you can probably get 25 or 30 for the cost one premade adapter.
  
 Then you can have like 10 for yourself and give a few to friends and sell the rest and make your money back. 
  
 Well you'd need solder and a soldering iron if you didn't have one, of course, and flux is good too...


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> I did not post any pictures of already made adapters. I posted pictures of 3.5mm stereo to 3.5mm stereo adapters, which seems completely useless at first glance, but one can add a resistor inline and boom, adapter is made.


 
 Maybe not that useless if you have something like 100 earbuds and you want to test and compare them all the time and you do not want to destroy your precious amp headphone socket by plugging and unplugging your 100 earbuds every single song


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> @AudioNewbi3 Where can you buy the DIY dual driver?
> 
> I am gonna buy the Edimun as soon as the De'mun guy writes me back with a final shipping quote and then i'll probably take it easy on buds for a while.


 
 I bought mine from Taobao directly from the seller.

 But Penon carries them too:
http://penonaudio.com/Earphones/earbuds/DIY-PHEB01-Earbuds
  
 The only downside (if it can be considered as one) is that Penon does not offer the supposedly silver plated "heart of the ocean" cable upgrade.


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> The only downside (if it can be considered as one) is that Penon does not offer the supposedly silver plated "heart of the ocean" cable upgrade.


 
 Do you have this cable?? If not i'll get the standard one...


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Do you have this cable?? If not i'll get the standard one...


This


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> Do you have this cable?? If not i'll get the standard one...


 
 If I were you, and have no access to Taobao, I would just go ahead and purchase the standard version, as I highly doubt that cable can make a significantly audible difference. My version of the DIY DD came with silver plated cable.
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5-c.w4002-1246925529.13.C9DNcs&id=37119460429


----------



## fairx

After rereading the thread a few pages back in really interested in Seahf LD 320 ohm impression. Is it really that same with original zen?


----------



## music4mhell

fairx said:


> After rereading the thread a few pages back in really interested in Seahf LD 320 ohm impression. Is it really that same with original zen?


 
 Same here, i am gonna buy 320 version very soon from Penonaudio, but that's not the SEAHF branding.


----------



## golov17

320 has a more hard bass and a slightly smaller sub-bass, Also, in my hearing, Zen1.0 has a smoother sound, IMHO


----------



## golov17

I measured impedance of some buds 
LD3.0 400 - 399 Ohm
LD3.0 320 - 311 Ohm
LD3.0 150 - 143 Ohm
VeZen 2.0 - 290 Ohm
VeZen 1.0 - 308 Ohm
Shozy Cygnus - 17 Ohm
Ve Asura 2.0 - 155 Ohm
Beta Asura - 148 Ohm


----------



## goldenSHK

golov17 said:


> I measured impedance of some buds
> LD3.0 400 - 399 Ohm
> LD3.0 320 - 311 Ohm
> LD3.0 150 - 143 Ohm
> ...


 
 what about Monk+??? :O


----------



## golov17

goldenshk said:


> what about Monk+??? :O


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> 320 has a more hard bass and a slightly smaller sub-bass, Also, in my hearing, Zen1.0 has a smoother sound, IMHO


 
 Which has bigger soundstage ?
 320 or 400 ? or Same in both ?


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> Which has bigger soundstage ?
> 320 or 400 ? or Same in both ?


Similar?


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Which has bigger soundstage ?
> ...


 
 Great, now i won't buy 320 anymore


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> Great, now i won't buy 320 anymore


400 better, agree


----------



## CingKrab

golov17 said:


> 400 better, agree




Do you have any thoughts regarding the differences between Seahf 400 and the Shozy Cygnus? If amping was not a concern which one would you favour?


----------



## golov17

cingkrab said:


> Do you have any thoughts regarding the differences between Seahf 400 and the Shozy Cygnus? If amping was not a concern which one would you favour?


 Everyone in their right, but 400 better for my taste..


----------



## music4mhell

cingkrab said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > 400 better, agree
> ...


 
 I prefer 400 over cygnus.


----------



## yacobx

music4mhell said:


> cingkrab said:
> 
> 
> > golov17 said:
> ...




ClieOS rated Cygnus over zen 2 which I don't agree with lol


----------



## golov17

yacobx said:


> ClieOS rated Cygnus over zen 2 which I don't agree with lol


 I too, but all IMHO..


----------



## music4mhell

yacobx said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > cingkrab said:
> ...


 
 Yes personally i will put Zen 2 over cygnus easily.


----------



## golov17

ClieOS said:
"Remember, always take this with a grain of salt.. "


----------



## fairx

Haha I myself wondering if ting is better than Cygnus. I already have 2 friends begging me to sell them my tomahawk.


----------



## springbay

fairx said:


> Haha I myself wondering if ting is better than Cygnus. I already have 2 friends begging me to sell them my tomahawk.


 
  
 If you ask me, I would not have any problem selling my Tomahawks or Tings. I would never consider the option to get rid of my Cygnus. In fact I really only need two setups:
  
 Iphone 6s/Cygnus
 and
 FiiOX3ii/RA2/Zen2
  
 Of course the Cygnus sound better than the Zen2 without an amp, but nothing beats the RA2/Zen2 combo. I'm easy to please that way.


----------



## fairx

springbay said:


> If you ask me, I would not have any problem selling my Tomahawks or Tings. I would never consider the option to get rid of my Cygnus. In fact I really only need two setups:
> 
> Iphone 6s/Cygnus
> and
> ...



Ahah! The plot thickens!


----------



## rggz

Is the new batch of Zen 2 a little different than the previous version? I mean like pixel typographic and black face plate a la Monk


----------



## RedJohn456

springbay said:


> If you ask me, I would not have any problem selling my Tomahawks or Tings. I would never consider the option to get rid of my Cygnus. In fact I really only need two setups:
> 
> Iphone 6s/Cygnus
> and
> ...


 

 I would love to use the RA2 portably but I need to source some good rechargeable 9v batteries. the ones in the VE AE store can't ship early to me thanks to it being.... well a battery lol.
  
 A good pair of 9.6V batteries oughta make it sing like a canary


----------



## springbay

rggz said:


> Is the new batch of Zen 2 a little different than the previous version? I mean like pixel typographic and black face plate a la Monk


 
  
 Mine have the new look
 https://d1jesv1uvhg9i4.cloudfront.net/9/94/94ca9a2c_IMG_0187.jpeg


----------



## rggz

springbay said:


> Mine have the new look
> https://d1jesv1uvhg9i4.cloudfront.net/9/94/94ca9a2c_IMG_0187.jpeg


 
  
 Thanks, btw cool setup!


----------



## Toom

My e100s just crapped out on me, so I picked up some Sennheiser MX375 from Maplins yesterday.

I really liking them without the foams via my Fiio X1.

Am eyeing up the Tomahawks though - can anyone comment on whether they would be an upgrade?


----------



## vapman

toom said:


> My e100s just crapped out on me, so I picked up some Sennheiser MX375 from Maplins yesterday.
> 
> I really liking them without the foams via my Fiio X1.
> 
> Am eyeing up the Tomahawks though - can anyone comment on whether they would be an upgrade?


 
  
 I will have to try the MX375. Please compare to ES100 in neutrality and balance?
  
 I love, love  love the ES100 sound but I've _never_ heard of a pair being defective. Mine were defective when I returned them. My replacement units were defective within 24 hours of receiving.
  
 I think the E100 is hopeless sadly. Truly a shame for such a balanced and netural sound.
  
*edit: You mean Baldoor/Mrice E100 or Hifiman ES100? *In this post I refer to Hifiman S100


----------



## Toom

vapman said:


> I will have to try the MX375. Please compare to ES100 in neutrality and balance?
> 
> I love, love  love the ES100 sound but I've _never_ heard of a pair being defective. Mine were defective when I returned them. My replacement units were defective within 24 hours of receiving.
> 
> ...


 
  
 E100.  Never tried the ES100.
  
 And anyway, as the E100 died before I had the MX375, I can't compare them easily - since accurate brain memory of sound is such an incredibly short time (a few seconds I think), I have never understood those who seem to be able to miraculously compare the sound of headphones or IEMs months or even years after they last used them!


----------



## vapman

toom said:


> E100.  Never tried the ES100.
> 
> And anyway, as the E100 died before I had the MX375, I can't compare them easily - since accurate brain memory of sound is such an incredibly short time (a few seconds I think), I have never understood those who seem to be able to miraculously compare the sound of headphones or IEMs months or even years after they last used them!


 

 All my E100 except one I ripped apart my accent all still going strong. I sold my KRK KNS 8400 for a few sets about a year ago and never loked back. I will probably recable the rest i got with 1.4" pins cause I never ever us em for listening.
  
 They're kinda like the ASG's. good at one or two or five things, but a whole mixed and rendered track? forget it...


----------



## Toom

Just tried the MX375 with donut foams (well, actually I cut the middle out of the normal foams and reversed them) and these really improve the bass and fit while keeping the clarity. 
  
 Sound really really superb now - I am shocked how great they are actually, for only £15.


----------



## yacobx

springbay said:


> fairx said:
> 
> 
> > Haha I myself wondering if ting is better than Cygnus. I already have 2 friends begging me to sell them my tomahawk.
> ...





I 100% agree with this. Zen is a few leagues above Cygnus but the zen needs the right amp. The crazy thing about the zen is that it makes music feel real. It hard to describe


----------



## stilleh

yacobx said:


> I 100% agree with this. Zen is a few leagues above Cygnus but the zen needs the right amp. The crazy thing about the zen is that it makes music feel real. It hard to describe


 
 +1
  
 You can really enjoy the Zens without an amp, but if you pair it with a powerful amp (like the RA2) it goes from enjoyment to euphoria. They just evolve over the whole spectra when you feed them more power.


----------



## golov17

Zen 2.0 have a very original signature, nothing like I have not seen anywhere else, and for that I love them


----------



## yacobx

golov17 said:


> Zen 2.0 have a very original signature, nothing like I have not seen anywhere else, and for that I love them




I actually just got my zens to work correctly. The set up I use allows me to turn down the output of my line out and boost my amp which the zens need so much power to work correctly. I am seriously blown away by the fact that they are better than any other earphone I've ever used


----------



## p0mg

what other portable amps are good for the zens?


----------



## golov17

Somebody has got a new ROSE ??


----------



## Tympan

I wish


----------



## Alex CY

ES100 from Penon on auction again!
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HiFiMAN-ES100-Dynamic-Driver-High-Fidelity-Quality-Audiophile-Earphone-Earbuds-/182157773659?hash=item2a69730b5b:g:nBQAAOSwUfNXSCPr

 Mine was sent to HiFiMAN for repair, but in general - sound quality was superb


----------



## ZerkMeister

Just got the Shozy Cygnus, holy moly these are comfy af. And the cable is so silky smooth I was afraid of breaking it and treating it super gently but I bet it is durable. Oh and the fitting, something never fit this perfectly in my ear before. Its like a custom fitted earbud.
I love it. At current standpoint. I might like the sq of the tomahawks a bit more but I'll give these guys a bit more time and different genres.


----------



## ryanjsoo

zerkmeister said:


> Just got the Shozy Cygnus, holy moly these are comfy af. And the cable is so silky smooth I was afraid of breaking it and treating it super gently but I bet it is durable. Oh and the fitting, something never fit this perfectly in my ear before. Its like a custom fitted earbud.
> I love it. At current standpoint. I might like the sq of the tomahawks a bit more but I'll give these guys a bit more time and different genres.


 
  
 I found the Cygnus to be super comfy as well, perhaps the most comfortable earbud I`ve worn! The cable is super supple, but it`s quite hardy, I`ve yanked mine numerous times by dropping my e17k off the table and it`s held up really well (but its started to turn green 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).
  
 As for the sound, I liked the Cygnus from first listen (I thought it was similar to the Tomahawk or maybe a bit worse), but after a bit of burn-in the treble and soundstage have opened up considerably, and the whole sound is a little tighter. ABing between the Tomahawk and Cygnus, I find myself coming back to the Cygnus with every track.
  
 I usually don`t care much for burn-in but Shozy gear definitely takes some persistence. it`s a really nice earbud, real shame they`re a limited run only.


----------



## ZerkMeister

ryanjsoo said:


> I found the Cygnus to be super comfy as well, perhaps the most comfortable earbud I`ve worn! The cable is super supple, but it`s quite hardy, I`ve yanked mine numerous times by dropping my e17k off the table and it`s held up really well (but its started to turn green  ).
> 
> As for the sound, I liked the Cygnus from first listen (I thought it was similar to the Tomahawk or maybe a bit worse), but after a bit of burn-in the treble and soundstage have opened up considerably, and the whole sound is a little tighter. ABing between the Tomahawk and Cygnus, I find myself coming back to the Cygnus with every track.
> 
> I usually don`t care much for burn-in but Shozy gear definitely takes some persistence. it`s a really nice earbud, real shame they`re a limited run only.



Is it worth amping shozy cygnus?
Edit: And with full foams or donut foams?
I have heard that the green doesn't affect sound quality, so I suppose it isn't such a big worry, and
green cable sounds cool regardless lol.


----------



## golov17

zerkmeister said:


> Is it worth amping shozy cygnus?
> Edit: And with full foams or donut foams?
> I have heard that the green doesn't affect sound quality, so I suppose it isn't such a big worry, and
> green cable sounds cool regardless lol.


green cool


----------



## ryanjsoo

zerkmeister said:


> Is it worth amping shozy cygnus?
> Edit: And with full foams or donut foams?
> I have heard that the green doesn't affect sound quality, so I suppose it isn't such a big worry, and
> green cable sounds cool regardless lol.




I didn't find them to benefit a lot from amping since theyre only 18 ohms, but ymmv depending on your source (i use a HTC M8).

I would recommend stock donut foams, full foams make them sound a little thick and dark. Hiegi domut foams are also a great fit if you are looking for more clarity and sub bass.


----------



## vapman

Just ordered... curious if they sound like SeaHf


----------



## vapman

alex cy said:


> ES100 from Penon on auction again!
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HiFiMAN-ES100-Dynamic-Driver-High-Fidelity-Quality-Audiophile-Earphone-Earbuds-/182157773659?hash=item2a69730b5b:g:nBQAAOSwUfNXSCPr
> 
> Mine was sent to HiFiMAN for repair, but in general - sound quality was superb


 

 I wish they were more reliable. They sound great! I had two and both had to go back for repair. It's a shame because they sounded very very nice. Cygnus a little better though.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Just ordered... curious if they sound like SeaHf


Interesting.. waiting your opinion


----------



## MRK1

Is there any earbud yet that can compare to the Monk? I still think it's the best sounding earbud I've ever tried. I think it has a perfect sound signature for me. Something that sounds similar but with better bass and soundstage would be perfect for me. I really like the mids and highs on the Monk. Also is the Monk Plus different when it comes to SQ? I recently (before the plus was on sale) bought 4 monks, so I have 5 now (yeah, I wanted spares so I can keep using them for the rest of my life), so if the SQ is the same I don't really need more.


----------



## ryanjsoo

mrk1 said:


> Is there any earbud yet that can compare to the Monk? I still think it's the best sounding earbud I've ever tried. I think it has a perfect sound signature for me. Something that sounds similar but with better bass and soundstage would be perfect for me. I really like the mids and highs on the Monk. Also is the Monk Plus different when it comes to SQ? I recently (before the plus was on sale) bought 4 monks, so I have 5 now (yeah, I wanted spares so I can keep using them for the rest of my life), so if the SQ is the same I don't really need more.


 
  
 How about the Asura and Zen 2.0?


----------



## ld100

mrk1 said:


> Is there any earbud yet that can compare to the Monk? I still think it's the best sounding earbud I've ever tried. I think it has a perfect sound signature for me. Something that sounds similar but with better bass and soundstage would be perfect for me. I really like the mids and highs on the Monk. Also is the Monk Plus different when it comes to SQ? I recently (before the plus was on sale) bought 4 monks, so I have 5 now (yeah, I wanted spares so I can keep using them for the rest of my life), so if the SQ is the same I don't really need more.




Personally I'm torn with Monks. They have lows and lows that sound good and everything sounds impressive, but and it is a big but I am missing charity and detail. Is it just me? I want the same impact, but with more detail...???


----------



## MRK1

ryanjsoo said:


> How about the Asura and Zen 2.0?


 
 Very expensive + too high impedance. I was thinking about something which costs max €50 shipped (that's 10x the price of the monk so at this price I won't be satisfied unless they sound WAY better).


----------



## Tympan

ld100 said:


> Personally I'm torn with Monks. They have lows and lows that sound good and everything sounds impressive, but and it is a big but I am missing charity and detail. Is it just me? I want the same impact, but with more detail...???


 

 Cygnus: very good lows, nicely balanced with superior clarity and details...+ very comfortable + great cable + no need for an amp + responds well to EQ
  
 5 years from now, every earbud head will wish they had bought a pair when Cygnus were still available (limited quantity)...


----------



## golov17

tympan said:


> Cygnus: very good lows, nicely balanced with superior clarity and details...+ very comfortable + great cable + no need for an amp + responds well to EQ
> 
> 5 years from now, every earbud head will wish they had bought a pair when Cygnus were still available (limited quantity)...


right now from Shozy


----------



## vapman

mrk1 said:


> Very expensive + too high impedance. I was thinking about something which costs max €50 shipped (that's 10x the price of the monk so at this price I won't be satisfied unless they sound WAY better).


 

 They do sound WAY better. Trust me.
  
 The Cygnus is probably the next best bet


----------



## ld100

tympan said:


> Cygnus: very good lows, nicely balanced with superior clarity and details...+ very comfortable + great cable + no need for an amp + responds well to EQ
> 
> 5 years from now, every earbud head will wish they had bought a pair when Cygnus were still available (limited quantity)...




I might just order them today. Is there a better place to get then that Ali? I am in US and prefer not to wait weeks...


----------



## MRK1

I also have another question. Anyone here also uses full size headphones? How would you compare the Monk to something bigger like the HD598 or the ATH M50x?
  
 The Monk is my favourite earbuds. I actually had a WOW experience when I first tried it. Not so much with the HD598 I'm using now.


----------



## golov17

ld100 said:


> I might just order them today. Is there a better place to get then that Ali? I am in US and prefer not to wait weeks...



SHOZY Cygnus High-Sensitivity Low Resistance Balance Bass High Fidelity HIFI Music Open 2.5mm/3.5mm Stereo Earbuds Earphones
 http://s.aliexpress.com/R7B7vM7Z 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## vapman

mrk1 said:


> I also have another question. Anyone here also uses full size headphones? How would you compare the Monk to something bigger like the HD598 or the ATH M50x?
> 
> The Monk is my favourite earbuds. I actually had a WOW experience when I first tried it. Not so much with the HD598 I'm using now.


 

 The Monk made me get rid of the HD600, HD650 and DT990 and never look back. Just sayin'.


----------



## yacobx

vapman said:


> mrk1 said:
> 
> 
> > I also have another question. Anyone here also uses full size headphones? How would you compare the Monk to something bigger like the HD598 or the ATH M50x?
> ...




I understand the other two but the 650 is a perfect headphone. Do you have zen 2?


----------



## vapman

yacobx said:


> I understand the other two but* the 650 is a perfect headphone.* Do you have zen 2?


 
 I have owned the 650 three different times.
 The first time I heard it was with a SINGLE POWER amp at a Head Fi meet in 2006.
 That's 10 years ago!
 For most of those 10 years it was one of the best I had ever heard.
 I would not call the 650 perfect in any way however.
 Some people may think it's perfect.
 Call me crazy but I'll take a Zen 2 over it any day.
 I sold my Zen 2 to buy a Black Edition Zen 2.
 I think the Zen 2 is pinnacle of all earbuds I've heard yet, second only to Rose Mojito, which I very much regret selling.
@Saoshyant can tell you the Mojito I sold him can not be compared to anything except maybe Stax Earspeakers.


----------



## Alex CY

mrk1 said:


> I also have another question. Anyone here also uses full size headphones? How would you compare the Monk to something bigger like the HD598 or the ATH M50x?
> 
> The Monk is my favourite earbuds. I actually had a WOW experience when I first tried it. Not so much with the HD598 I'm using now.


 
 Perhaps I have very different ears, but my Monks gather dust on the shelf every time I get a new earbuds. I like Edifier H180 for vintage sound, Meizu 21HD for light and transparent sound, the Tomahawk for high resolution and wide scene, ES100 was in all respects a head above Monks (waiting replacement), and now my main earbuds for every day, the most comfortable - Fiio EM3 which absorbed a little bit of all the previous ones. No, I'm not against the monks, but in my case they are absolutely do not stand out. And of course, they are not even close to the HD598. They simply are not able to reproduce the female vocals and guitars so clean, but it is possible in some musical genres they will find their place.


----------



## vapman

@Alex CY
 How's Edifier H180 bass?
 I'm waiting for De'mun guy to write back to me... been waiting days for him to give me the shipping price!


----------



## Alex CY

vapman said:


> @Alex CY
> How's Edifier H180 bass?
> I'm waiting for De'mun guy to write back to me... been waiting days for him to give me the shipping price!


 

 Perfect for watching movies  and somehow I like its sound signature for DM, De/vision, Mesh and Vaylon type of music.


----------



## Tympan

golov17 said:


> right now from Shozy


 

 Yeahhh! I'm sure different model coming but Cygnus will be gone sooner than later.
 I wish I had bought a TM7 a while back when I could have at the time. This thread has turned me into a budhead, love earbuds!


----------



## vapman

alex cy said:


> Perfect for waching movies  and somehow I like its sound signature for DM, De/vision, Mesh and Vaylon type of music.


 

 I have one H180 on the way and I hope Mr De'mun writes back soon.
  
 Hey! You have good music taste. I listen to a lot of the same bands! Lately I am listening to Dominion and Hubert Kah a lot  So your review is much better to me as I know the stuff you listen to.
  
@golov17 You bought Edimun right? Did it take you a long time to buy it? I have been sent him many emails for a week waiting for reply. I hope i am not bothering him.


----------



## Alex CY

I've got today Faaeal earbuds but can't adapt to them, too bright for my ears


----------



## vapman

Which ones did you get? I got the black 300 ohm ones, hope they aren't too bright...


----------



## Tympan

vapman said:


> Call me crazy but I'll take a Zen 2 over it any day.
> I sold my Zen 2 to buy a Black Edition Zen 2.
> I think the Zen 2 is pinnacle of all earbuds I've heard yet, second only to Rose Mojito, which I very much regret selling.


 
  
 Call me crazy but I sold my HD650 and bought TWO Zen 2.0 !!! (well, I sold HD650 before I heard Zen 2.0)
  
 First time I heard Zen 2.0, I was very disappointed but I wasn't using them properly (full foams were too bassy and it wasn't even burned in yet) But after much playing around, I thought Zen 2.0 had more potential than Cygnus, more sound stage width, hight, and depth, with wonderful timbre. Jazz trios, drums/cymbals, bass, and piano sound incredible on Zen 2.0...


----------



## Alex CY

vapman said:


> Which ones did you get?


 
 white 6.5 $ version  I'll try them with foams tmrw


----------



## Tympan

vapman said:


> I sold my Zen 2 to buy a Black Edition Zen 2.


 
  
 Hey Vapman, do you feel like BE Zen 2 is noticeably better than Zen 2? 
  
 Been wondering if Zen 2 would sound better with Runabout 2.0 than mojo too.


----------



## vapman

tympan said:


> Hey Vapman, do you feel like BE Zen 2 is noticeably better than Zen 2?
> 
> Been wondering if Zen 2 would sound better with Runabout 2.0 than mojo too.


 

 I missed the Monk Plus massdrop and no orders until the new VE site is up so I can't tell you yet sadly


----------



## Tympan

ah! I remember looking at the red Monks thinking "do I rally need a red Monk?" 
 Of course I needed red Monks! Who doesn't need red Monk? Sadly I missed them too. Now waiting for Green Monks, I guess...


----------



## ZerkMeister

Remember how I said I wasnt sure yet about the Shozy Cygnus vs Tomahawks. 
 I dont know if I like the Tomahawks anymore 
 The Shozy has taken over!


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> I have one H180 on the way and I hope Mr De'mun writes back soon.
> 
> Hey! You have good music taste. I listen to a lot of the same bands! Lately I am listening to Dominion and Hubert Kah a lot  So your review is much better to me as I know the stuff you listen to.
> 
> ...


PM'd


----------



## goldenSHK

Hey guys what is the best way to open up Monk earbuds for recable? My monk+ just died on me because of the poor strain relief so I am thinking of practicing my recabling skills for my real operations (blox and zen). What tools do you guys use and methods for opening up earbuds easily?


----------



## rggz

goldenshk said:


> Hey guys what is the best way to open up Monk earbuds for recable? My monk+ just died on me because of the poor strain relief so I am thinking of practicing my recabling skills for my real operations (blox and zen). What tools do you guys use and methods for opening up earbuds easily?


 
  
 Golov's posted a video opening it just using his fingers, but honestly, I haven't the necessary skill to do that, then I prefer to use a hair dryer for ~1-2 mins on sides and after finish with a utility knife around the driver housing.


----------



## golov17

goldenshk said:


> Hey guys what is the best way to open up Monk earbuds for recable? My monk+ just died on me because of the poor strain relief so I am thinking of practicing my recabling skills for my real operations (blox and zen). What tools do you guys use and methods for opening up earbuds easily?


 Just use your nails on the thumb for this, but do not try BLOX, strongly glued together, and you can damage the drivers


----------



## goldenSHK

golov17 said:


> Just use your nails on the thumb for this, but do not try BLOX, strongly glued together, and you can damage the drivers


 
  


rggz said:


> Golov's posted a video opening it just using his fingers, but honestly, I haven't the necessary skill to do that, then I prefer to use a hair dryer for ~1-2 mins on sides and after finish with a utility knife around the driver housing.


 
  
  
 Holy **** thanks guys, it literally just came right off after pushing with my thumb. That's pretty funny. Wow..


----------



## goldenSHK

I guess also while we are on the same topic, what is the best quality connector with the STRONGEST, MOST RESILIENT strain spring/relief on the market? I don't care if the connector for my monk+ is 5x the actual price of the monk lol I just want to be able to take it to the gym without it failing in under 1 month like this one.


----------



## ryanjsoo

goldenshk said:


> I guess also while we are on the same topic, what is the best quality connector with the STRONGEST, MOST RESILIENT strain spring/relief on the market? I don't care if the connector for my monk+ is 5x the actual price of the monk lol I just want to be able to take it to the gym without it failing in under 1 month like this one.


 
  
 Definitely go for a right angled plug, the larger Oyaide style and Ranko plugs might actually be more prone to damage since they are so stiff. In general plugs with a spring style strain-relief wear very well. It would also be a good idea to layer some heatshrink around the termination.


----------



## rggz

goldenshk said:


> I guess also while we are on the same topic, what is the best quality connector with the STRONGEST, MOST RESILIENT strain spring/relief on the market? I don't care if the connector for my monk+ is 5x the actual price of the monk lol I just want to be able to take it to the gym without it failing in under 1 month like this one.


 
  
 Neutrik NTP3RC w/ heat shrink in terminals solder probably will solve easily that issue. I know other good brands like Oyaide, Switchcraft, Amphenol but Neutrik fit better for your case and isn't that expensive.


----------



## catherder

Just new to earbuds, haven't had a collection yet but great list of recommendations. Thanks!


----------



## kurtextrem

Has anyone got any experience with http://aliexpress.com/item/New-Original-Wooden-Earbuds-Wooden-Bass-In-Ear-Headphones-Bass-DIY-Magic-Sound-Headset/32576959704.html?isOrigTitle=true&isOrig=true#extend ? Wood is new lol
  
 By the way, I figured out why I like the Asura 2 more than Cygnus / Tomahawk: Because of the narrow sound stage (gaming!) - is there any upgrade with narrow sound stage?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

kurtextrem said:


> Has anyone got any experience with http://aliexpress.com/item/New-Original-Wooden-Earbuds-Wooden-Bass-In-Ear-Headphones-Bass-DIY-Magic-Sound-Headset/32576959704.html?isOrigTitle=true&isOrig=true#extend ? Wood is new lol
> 
> By the way, I figured out why I like the Asura 2 more than Cygnus / Tomahawk: Because of the narrow sound stage (gaming!) - is there any upgrade with narrow sound stage?


 
 I believe the wooden earbuds are the DAIK's which were mentioned by @Danneq, which are available several pages back.
  
 If memory serves me right, I seem to recall that they have a very narrow soundstage and quite pronounced bass presence.


----------



## Danneq

kurtextrem said:


> Has anyone got any experience with http://aliexpress.com/item/New-Original-Wooden-Earbuds-Wooden-Bass-In-Ear-Headphones-Bass-DIY-Magic-Sound-Headset/32576959704.html?isOrigTitle=true&isOrig=true#extend ? Wood is new lol
> 
> By the way, I figured out why I like the Asura 2 more than Cygnus / Tomahawk: Because of the narrow sound stage (gaming!) - is there any upgrade with narrow sound stage?




If you like a narrow soundstage for gaming DK-Jin is perfect. They have a forward sound with a lot of bass and treble and a narrow soundstage with okay depth.


----------



## Saoshyant

danneq said:


> If you like a narrow soundstage for gaming DK-Jin is perfect. They have a forward sound with a lot of bass and treble and a narrow soundstage with okay depth.




Hmm, I should see if I like gaming with the DK-JIN


----------



## Danneq

Is narrow soundstsge an advantage for gaming? I have never used earbuds or headphones for gaming. Sometimes I use earbuds when watching DVDs and nowadays I most often use Monk for that...


----------



## kurtextrem

I'd say definitely. The nearer the sound is, the better I can tell where it comes from. It if is all around your head I have no idea where it is coming from.


----------



## yacobx

vapman said:


> yacobx said:
> 
> 
> > I understand the other two but *the 650 is a perfect headphone.* Do you have zen 2?
> ...




I agree, zen 2 is in its own league. I really don't have an urge to buy any others till nirvana comes out


----------



## vapman

Someone should sell me their DK-JIN 
  
 I'll hopefully have Edimun ordered by end of the day...
  
 ...and it's ordered! I might have the first Edimun in the USA?


----------



## MRK1

If anyone has any of the earbuds superior to the Monk for sale send me a message, I'm interested in buying something even better than the Monk. I don't care if they're not in mint condition as long as they aren't flat out broken and the sound is still intact.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Someone should sell me their DK-JIN
> 
> I'll hopefully have Edimun ordered by end of the day...
> 
> ...and it's ordered! I might have the first Edimun in the USA?


 and I in Russia


----------



## golov17

mrk1 said:


> If anyone has any of the earbuds superior to the Monk for sale send me a message, I'm interested in buying something even better than the Monk. I don't care if they're not in mint condition as long as they aren't flat out broken and the sound is still intact.


Seahf LD3.0 320 Ohm?


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> Seahf LD3.0 320 Ohm?


 

 Yes, a good choice, or Asura 2.0
  
  


golov17 said:


> and I in Russia


----------



## kurtextrem

The Asura 2.0 has < 200 Ohm, how is the LD3.0 320 Ohm similar to it?


----------



## golov17

kurtextrem said:


> The Asura 2.0 has < 200 Ohm, how is the LD3.0 320 Ohm similar to it?


for bass go on 320 , for mid's go on Asura


----------



## amoyda

Hi guys
You think tomahawk's are good choice for price range always (35€) ?
Source:lg v10

Sent from my LG-H960 using Tapatalk


----------



## amoyda

amoyda said:


> Hi guys
> You think tomahawk's are good choice for price range always (35€)??
> Source:lg v10
> 
> Sent from my LG-H960 using Tapatalk




Sent from my LG-H960 using Tapatalk


----------



## golov17

http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=a1z5f.7632060.0.0&id=529222794262


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=a1z5f.7632060.0.0&id=529222794262


 

 "with wheat base"
  
 hahahaha


----------



## golov17

Benjie buds 
http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=a1z5f.7632060.0.0&id=521519503806


----------



## p0mg

p0mg said:


> what other portable amps are good for the zens?




anyone?


----------



## golov17

p0mg said:


> anyone?


C&C bh2?


----------



## p0mg

golov17 said:


> C&C bh2?




how are you liking them paired with your zens?


----------



## kurtextrem

Is it only me who can't use those links on a desktop @golov17?


----------



## golov17

p0mg said:


> how are you liking them paired with your zens?


very nice


----------



## golov17

kurtextrem said:


> Is it only me who can't use those links on a desktop @golov17?


only mobile site link's, sorry


----------



## AudioNewbi3

kurtextrem said:


> Is it only me who can't use those links on a desktop @golov17?


 
 you have to copy and paste the whole link to your search bar
 the reason you cant go to the links is because of a system in head-fi to prevent endorsement or something.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

p0mg said:


> anyone?


 
 Depends on your budget really. 

 If you have access to Taobao and know Chinese, you will be in for a treat. 
 Amps as far as the eye can see lol. As for which one is better, I have no idea.

 But I am very satisfied with all of my amps stated in my profile. They drive my SeaHF's with no problem


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> I remember reading Edifier H180 benefitted a lot from a cable upgrade.
> Does anyone have a recabled H185 or H186p?
> Just wondering if they're worth the extra money.
> 
> ...



Sorry i just read your post today. Already tried to recable h185, not good. More like side grade than upgrade. It just not as potential as h180. I don't recommend you to recable h185.
And for h180 with demun cable (edimun), you could ask sir golov17 later. As i remember, he ordered a pair of Edimun a few days ago


----------



## p0mg

audionewbi3 said:


> Depends on your budget really.
> 
> 
> If you have access to Taobao and know Chinese, you will be in for a treat.
> ...




aww i dont have access to taobao and i dont know chinese. i have a friend staying in china though. maybe he can hook me up


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> Someone should sell me their DK-JIN
> 
> I'll hopefully have Edimun ordered by end of the day...
> 
> ...and it's ordered! I might have the first Edimun in the USA?







golov17 said:


> and I in Russia



Congrats! It's always on my Top 10 list. I hope De'mun guy sent you the 2nd version of edimun. It sounds better from 1st with some special re-tuned on the driver


----------



## fairx

amoyda said:


> Hi guys
> You think tomahawk's are good choice for price range always (35€) ?
> Source:lg v10
> 
> Sent from my LG-H960 using Tapatalk



For that kind of money the resolution it provides are unheard in iem world. Buy well this is earbud world lol.

Edit. 
Demm caffeine made my thumb jumpy 

What I meant to say is go for it. small investment, no need for amp and the resolution is wayyyyyy above the price.


----------



## ZerkMeister

golov17 said:


> C&C bh2?



Ive been hearing a lot of distortion when using it. The bass sounds horrible. What could be the reason?
Should I not use the interconnect that comes with it?


----------



## amoyda

@fairx thanks for quick replay
They are on the way ....

Sent from my LG-H960 using Tapatalk


----------



## vapman

joy boy said:


> Congrats! It's always on my Top 10 list. I hope De'mun guy sent you the 2nd version of edimun. It sounds better from 1st with some special re-tuned on the driver


 

 I hope so too! I don't know if i'll get v1 or v2, how to tell? I guess I could just ask him.
  
 edit: I asked him 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


> demun v1 & v2 headphone cable
> demun v3, SG & F1 iem/earbuds cable


 
 So I'll see what I get!


----------



## golov17

zerkmeister said:


> Ive been hearing a lot of distortion when using it. The bass sounds horrible. What could be the reason?
> Should I not use the interconnect that comes with it?


no problem with my..


----------



## irgunawan

Hmm mr @vapman, be a first Edimun v2 user in USA? we can talk about it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 



  
  
  
 Mr. @golov17 was be a 1st in Russian. I was send Edimun v2 to him yesterday by EMS
 .


----------



## vapman

irgunawan
Thank you for the opportunity 
Very excited to be your first USA customer

Today my plain h180, FAAEL 300ohm v3 and Remax buds shipped


----------



## golov17

Well, it is impossible to resist such advertising ..


----------



## ld100

irgunawan said:


> Hmm mr @vapman, be a first Edimun v2 user in USA? we can talk about it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Can you send me some info on these please...


----------



## golov17

https://m.tokopedia.com/bengkelmacro?tab=product


----------



## vapman

ld100 said:


> Can you send me some info on these please...


 

 Mine are on their way! Don't worry, I will post impressions as soon as I can!
 I also have stock unmodded Edifier H180 to compare to.
 Very excited.
  

  
 Can't lie. I was thinking about buying their portable bMac amp too. But i want to compare it to the VE runabout.


----------



## ballog

I'm very interested in purchasing the Edimun.
 What's the price of in USD (including worldwide shipping)?


----------



## vapman

ballog said:


> I'm very interested in purchasing the Edimun.
> What's the price of in USD (including worldwide shipping)?


 

 65? i think not include shipping.
  
 Cost me and golov both $30 via EMS shipping but hey it's express mail. so i will ave it soon.
  
 I promise to review it extensively when I get it. No doubt golov will post his thoughts too. Really really excited ever since Joyboy said it could compete with zen v1.


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> ballog said:
> 
> 
> > I'm very interested in purchasing the Edimun.
> ...


 
 Link please


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> Link please


 
 http://www.bengkelmacro.com/edimun01/
 Cheers!


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> Link please


Bengkel Macro owner
http://www.head-fi.org/u/394362/irgunawan

PM for him


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> 65? i think not include shipping.
> 
> Cost me and golov both $30 via EMS shipping but hey it's express mail. so i will ave it soon.
> 
> I promise to review it extensively when I get it. No doubt golov will post his thoughts too. Really really excited ever since Joyboy said it could compete with zen v1.



I thought if ve zen v1 said to have the best bass in earbud world, then the second place is this edimun bud. 
I usually use it as my daily bud. Mine comes with red-white cable. It looks cool too


----------



## vapman

joy boy said:


> I thought if ve zen v1 said to have the best bass in earbud world, then the second place is this edimun bud.
> I usually use it as my daily bud. Mine comes with red-white cable. It looks cool too


 
 ooooh. I wonder what the red shell on mine is all about then! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 so excited!
 so glad they're using EMS...


----------



## music4mhell

Can someone please tell me, how big is Rose mojito compare to Cygnus/ Zen 2/ Ting ?


----------



## golov17

I think this is largely a matter of personal preference in sound and comfort fit


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> BTW, just a heads up - begin in May, all new Ostry KC08 should have a new tuning. It will be the final tuning and there won't be any Chinese vs. Japanese version anymore. I do believe Ostry offers those in China who doesn't like the old tuning an exchange for the new version, though I don't know much of the detail. They also showcased KC08T in China a couple of weeks ago on trade show, not much detail on that yet except it will be an even better model than KC08.


 I guess, was expecting these events ..


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> Can someone please tell me, how big is Rose mojito compare to Cygnus/ Zen 2/ Ting ?


 

 Way bigger, a bit bigger, and never tried Ting but a bit bigger than the Tomahawk.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

One of the best Monday ever...........


----------



## AudioNewbi3

music4mhell said:


> Can someone please tell me, how big is Rose mojito compare to Cygnus/ Zen 2/ Ting ?


 
  
 Just got mine. I actually had to get extra rubber rings as recommended by @ClieOS from Taobao to make the Mojitos fit better.

 Right now I use my Mojito with style B rubber rings with Monk+ Red Blue foams and they fit perfectly. If I do not use it, they would actually fall out of my ears........So I bet their size is smaller than MX500 housings.
  
 Link to rubber rings (provided to me by clieos)
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5-c.w4002-555186892.52.Wfq4px&id=527963922942  
  


vapman said:


> Way bigger, a bit bigger, and never tried Ting but a bit bigger than the Tomahawk.


 
 Hmmm.....they are actually small for my ears


----------



## Joy Boy

audionewbi3 said:


> One of the best Monday ever...........
> 
> [COLOR=FF4400]
> [/COLOR]
> ...



Wow...i hope i can try it someday. It looks so gorgeous! 
Sadly, still overprice for me


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Can someone please tell me, how big is Rose mojito compare to Cygnus/ Zen 2/ Ting ?
> ...


 
 Ohh gosh, tomahawk is very big for my ears, i couldn't use Tomahawk becoz of it's size 
 It seems i can never enjoy Rose Mojito too  My bad luck and my bad ears


----------



## ryanjsoo

music4mhell said:


> Ohh gosh, tomahawk is very big for my ears, i couldn't use Tomahawk becoz of it's size
> It seems i can never enjoy Rose Mojito too  My bad luck and my bad ears


 
  
 Try unscrewing the strain-relief on the Tomahawk and sliding them down to the y-split, they`re easier to fit that way but sound less airy.


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> Ohh gosh, tomahawk is very big for my ears, i couldn't use Tomahawk becoz of it's size
> It seems i can never enjoy Rose Mojito too  My bad luck and my bad ears


 

 Tomahawk and Mojito are different shapes
  
 Mojito is big but can fit in small ears.
  
 not the other way around.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> Tomahawk and Mojito are different shapes
> 
> Mojito is big but can fit in small ears.
> 
> not the other way around.


 
 heck I thnik the Mojito's fit better than the Tomahawks hahaha


----------



## Akmola Lola

i had no problem with tomahawk and monk+ fittings, but Ting is a tad bit too small and doesnt stays put haha..


----------



## Tomasz2D

audionewbi3 said:


> heck I thnik the Mojito's fit better than the Tomahawks hahaha


 
 What's your first impression soundwise?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

joy boy said:


> Wow...i hope i can try it someday. It looks so gorgeous!
> Sadly, still overprice for me


 
  
 Just save up really really hard. I blew half of my savings for them hahaha.....*cries*


tomasz2d said:


> What's your first impression soundwise?


 
 Hey mate, sorry to inform you, but I will not have enough time to give them a proper listen as my dissertation proposal is due next week. Just finsihed wiping down the Mojtios with rubbing alcohol.........will give you a brief impression after my proposal submission.


----------



## Makahl

Hi folks.
  
 I've been lurking this thread because my ears fatigue with IEMs very easy and my friend tell me amazing things about how earbuds can be good but I can't decide between Zen 2 and Cygnus, then what's the major difference? I've read bipolar things about Zen 2 and a solid opinion with Cygnus, if someone can explore more details and comparisons about them I'll appreciate. 
  
 I have a FiiO X5II so amp/source ain't a big problem I think...


----------



## golov17

makahl said:


> Hi folks.
> 
> I've been lurking this thread because my ears fatigue with IEMs very easy and my friend tell me amazing things about how earbuds can be good but I can't decide between Zen 2 and Cygnus, then what's the major difference? I've read bipolar things about Zen 2 and a solid opinion with Cygnus, if someone can explore more details and comparisons about them I'll appreciate.
> 
> I have a FiiO X5II so amp/source ain't a big problem I think...


Well, 290 vs 17 Ohm, foamless vs foams, big size drivers vs small, other sound sig..


----------



## Tympan

makahl said:


> Hi folks.
> 
> I've been lurking this thread because my ears fatigue with IEMs very easy and my friend tell me amazing things about how earbuds can be good but I can't decide between Zen 2 and Cygnus, then what's the major difference? I've read bipolar things about Zen 2 and a solid opinion with Cygnus, if someone can explore more details and comparisons about them I'll appreciate.
> 
> I have a FiiO X5II so amp/source ain't a big problem I think...


 

 I have both.
 While Zen 2 have more potential and will sound better in ideal conditions, Fiio x5II may be too warm of a source for them. 
 Cygnus seems like a much safer bet for compatibility and comfort. And they will be discontinued at some point so I'd grab a pair while you can


----------



## annapan2009

It is very good mx500 diy earphone。


----------



## golov17

another troll, diy lol


----------



## Makahl

golov17 said:


> Well, 290 vs 17 Ohm, foamless vs foams, big size drivers vs small, other sound sig..


 
  


tympan said:


> I have both.
> While Zen 2 have more potential and will sound better in ideal conditions, Fiio x5II may be too warm of a source for them.
> Cygnus seems like a much safer bet for compatibility and comfort. And they will be discontinued at some point so I'd grab a pair while you can


 

 Thank you Golov17 and Tympan
  
 The Zen 2 is literally like a full-size then, just shine with an amp dedicated 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 after X5II I'm very used with my cellphone and Spotify app to discover new songs maybe Cygnus can be more dynamic with my sources and with the bucks I will save an Edifier H180 is a good earbud to make a pair with Cygnus? ​


----------



## golov17

Try Edifier h101,185


----------



## Tomasz2D

audionewbi3 said:


> Just finsihed wiping down the Mojtios with rubbing alcohol.........


 
  
 ... and then you set the fire to it. Is it so called "burning-in"?


----------



## kurtextrem

My Monk vs Monk+ impression:
 WAY more bass on the Monk+, but brighter sound on Monk. I'll stick to the Monk


----------



## rggz

kurtextrem said:


> My Monk vs Monk+ impression:
> WAY more bass on the Monk+, but brighter sound on Monk. I'll stick to the Monk


 
  
 Yep, it's pretty clear in the Brooko's review:
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



  


  
 Something about +5dB in the mid-bass area and a huge downstep in 5kHz (usually the region of cymbals, hi-hat), if you like a more controlled sound you should consider EQing with a Low shelf filter at 500-1kHz removing some dBs, but I think people aren't used to EQ here, so...stay with original Monk haha.


----------



## ryanjsoo

I really didn`t like the Monk+ with the included foams, I thought they sounded way too dark, veiled and bass dominant. Without foams, they`re much more balanced however, though bass extension is reduced. Without foams I think they`re a really nice earbud and for $5 they`re a fantastic, but I still think people like to overstate their sound quality.


----------



## fairx

So guys. Which edifier is edimun based again? Kinda confuse here since there's a few. Also is there any other tuning involved besides better cable?


----------



## ryanjsoo

fairx said:


> So guys. Which edifier is edimun based again? Kinda confuse here since there's a few. Also is there any other tuning involved besides better cable?


 
  
 Looks to be the Edifier h180, only the cable is changed.


----------



## knives

I am thinking in getting one DK-Pu DK-JIN.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Original-Wooden-Earbuds-Wooden-Bass-In-Ear-Headphones-Bass-DIY-Magic-Sound-Headset/32576959704.html

But i had a confort issue with the MrZ Tomahawk (but for me Asura is confortble). Anyone can say if the DK-Pu DK-JIN is smaller or have the same size?


----------



## Saoshyant

Do you have any other earbuds than the Tomahawk or Asura?  I don't have either but do have the DK-Jin.


----------



## knives

saoshyant said:


> Do you have any other earbuds than the Tomahawk or Asura?  I don't have either but do have the DK-Jin.



 

SONY MH410C (the one that comes with Xperia), the old Apple Earbud, Awei ES10, a Blox that uses the mx500 sennheiser shell, Sennheiser MX985 (but this one is big to, i had to remove the rubber ring)...


----------



## Saoshyant

knives said:


> saoshyant said:
> 
> 
> > Do you have any other earbuds than the Tomahawk or Asura?  I don't have either but do have the DK-Jin.
> ...


 
 The DK-Jin is slightly smaller than the MX985, and I think very slightly smaller than the ES10, but as I'm clumsy with putting earbud covers back on, I'm going by comparative feel between fingers, plus it's the end of my day and I'm half asleep.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Very very brief update:

 ROSE MOJITO = EARBUD ENDGAME AND NIRVANA FOR ME. I HAVE INDEED SEEN THE GODDESS OF SOUNDTSAGE AND MICRO DETAIL HERSELF IN MY MIND.


----------



## audio123

audionewbi3 said:


> Very very brief update:
> 
> ROSE MOJITO = EARBUD ENDGAME AND NIRVANA FOR ME. I HAVE INDEED SEEN THE GODDESS OF SOUNDTSAGE AND MICRO DETAIL HERSELF IN MY MIND.


 

 comparison to ve monk?


----------



## Tomasz2D

audionewbi3 said:


> Very very brief update:


 
 How is build quality and attention to details?


----------



## Joy Boy

fairx said:


> So guys. Which edifier is edimun based again? Kinda confuse here since there's a few. Also is there any other tuning involved besides better cable?



Edifier H180. For edimun V1, just cable difference. Edimun V2, they did some special tuning on the driver. Made it more refine on low freq, thicker vocal and 3D image on staging.
But lately i've heard they're now still made some research for the 3rd ver. More extension on high freq and better mid.


----------



## ClieOS

audio123 said:


> comparison to ve monk?


 
  
 For anyone who enjoy detail and soundstage, it will be like asking a devoted motorcycle rider to compare a Harley-Davidson to a bicycle.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> For anyone who enjoy detail and soundstage, it will be like asking a devoted motorcycle rider to compare a Harley-Davidson to a bicycle.


 
 Sifu help me now, what am I supposed to do now? I feel like my journey has ended.........what now.....what of my Cygnus, Tomahawks.............oh lordy


----------



## rggz

A little off-topic but.. is there an IEM by Rose inspired in Mojitos? Definitely that shape is a deal breaker for me.


----------



## Saoshyant

audionewbi3 said:


> Sifu help me now, what am I supposed to do now? I feel like my journey has ended.........what now.....what of my Cygnus, Tomahawks.............oh lordy




You relax and enjoy yourself. Plus, there's always seeking your endgame source/amplification, and maybe cables if you feel that's worth pursuing.


----------



## audio123

clieos said:


> For anyone who enjoy detail and soundstage, it will be like asking a devoted motorcycle rider to compare a Harley-Davidson to a bicycle.


 

 fair enough mate. from your experience which earbud has the best 3D soundstage?
 many thanks in advance!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

audio123 said:


> comparison to ve monk?


 
  
 I don't even think that it is fair to compare them at this point honestly. 
  
 In all honestly the Mojito's Soundstage is larger than those of Monk+, while monks+ have good extension, it can't even retain half the amount of detail that can be resolved by the Mojitos. 
 Bass on the Monks+ hit you like a flat wall, where as the Mojitos bass is rounded like an egg surface.
 Mids are just perfect, not recess and certainly not forward.

 Mojito provide very holographic like sound to my ears.


tomasz2d said:


> How is build quality and attention to details?


 
 Excellent for the price (IMHO) as they are 3D printed (new version)


----------



## ClieOS

audio123 said:


> fair enough mate. from your experience which earbud has the best 3D soundstage?
> many thanks in advance!


 
  
 If it is a confined (imaginary) space, TM7 probably has the best rendering of spacial detail and positioning I have ever heard of any earbud. But by sheer openness, nothing comes close to Mojito.


----------



## audio123

audionewbi3 said:


> I don't even think that it is fair to compare them at this point honestly.
> 
> In all honestly the Mojito's Soundstage is larger than those of Monk+, while monks+ have good extension, it can't even retain half the amount of detail that can be resolved by the Mojitos.
> Bass on the Monks+ hit you like a flat wall, where as the Mojitos bass is rounded like an egg surface.
> ...


 

 alright just curious


----------



## audio123

clieos said:


> If it is a confined (imaginary) space, TM7 probably has the best rendering of spacial detail and positioning I have ever heard of any earbud. But by sheer openness, nothing comes close to Mojito.


 

 sorry for asking whats tm7?
 is it tomahawk 7


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> sorry for asking whats tm7?
> is it tomahawk 7


Blox TM7


----------



## AudioNewbi3

rggz said:


> A little off-topic but.. is there an IEM by Rose inspired in Mojitos? Definitely that shape is a deal breaker for me.


 
  
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=2013.1.20141001.2.WAA9JY&id=39998200145&scm=1007.10115.36023.100200300000000&pvid=70348e53-4d07-46da-9d9f-f2ec4d67ef15&idnum=0
  
 Rose Margherita dual drivers IEM. Possibly the same driver as Mojito? Maybe 


saoshyant said:


> You relax and enjoy yourself. Plus, there's always seeking your endgame source/amplification, and maybe cables if you feel that's worth pursuing.


 
  
 I think the Mojito may be the only gear that has pushed my Xduoo X3 to its limits


----------



## golov17

2016 New Rose Margaret In Ear Earphone Double Dynamic HIFI Monitor DJ DIY Earphone With 2-pin Interface Free Shipping
 http://s.aliexpress.com/qEbYV7fi


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> Rose Margherita dual drivers IEM. Possibly the same driver as Mojito? Maybe


 
  
 Probably not. The bass driver on Mojito is bigger than the 10mm bass driver in Margarita..


----------



## rggz

audionewbi3 said:


> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=2013.1.20141001.2.WAA9JY&id=39998200145&scm=1007.10115.36023.100200300000000&pvid=70348e53-4d07-46da-9d9f-f2ec4d67ef15&idnum=0
> 
> Rose Margherita dual drivers IEM. Possibly the same driver as Mojito? Maybe
> 
> I think the Mojito may be the only gear that has pushed my Xduoo X3 to its limits


 
  


golov17 said:


> 2016 New Rose Margaret In Ear Earphone Double Dynamic HIFI Monitor DJ DIY Earphone With 2-pin Interface Free Shipping
> http://s.aliexpress.com/qEbYV7fi


 
  
 Thanks! But seeing now the ad and FR posted by seller I bet they are different and surprisingly Mojito's looks have a better linearity on bass department.   
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Rose Margherita

  
 Rose Mojito


----------



## fairx

What a BIG poison. Lol. If not for Raya... I do have the fund...


----------



## Joy Boy

I will never have the fund fore mojito. LOL

Enough with zen 1 and Blox BE7 as twin king in my collection. Kz-omx2 special for metal. Edimun & dx.v4 for daily bud.

But then I realized, i don't have special bud for audiophile song that focus on vocal. Any advice? I hope an earbud that cost less or half (max) yuin Pk1's price. 
What about ATH C770? Anyone ever tried it?


----------



## vapman

joy boy said:


> I will never have the fund fore mojito. LOL
> 
> Enough with zen 1 and Blox BE7 as twin king in my collection. Kz-omx2 special for metal. Edimun & dx.v4 for daily bud.
> 
> ...


 

 Can you afford a cygnus?
 or asura or monk?
  
 My edimun is shipped by the way, really excited 
  
 I miss mojito, wish i still had it.


----------



## mochill

Getting mojito


----------



## Danneq

joy boy said:


> I will never have the fund fore mojito. LOL
> 
> Enough with zen 1 and Blox BE7 as twin king in my collection. Kz-omx2 special for metal. Edimun & dx.v4 for daily bud.
> 
> ...


 


 Zen 1 should last a long way.

 Perhaps you can buy these vintage Aiwa earbuds 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (V99 is described as one of the best earbud ever made - I haven't heard it though):
http://www.ebay.de/itm/252423657323?_trksid=p2055359.m1431.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## golov17

joy boy said:


> I will never have the fund fore mojito. LOL
> 
> Enough with zen 1 and Blox BE7 as twin king in my collection. Kz-omx2 special for metal. Edimun & dx.v4 for daily bud.
> 
> ...


Ubiquo-Ucotech es903,1003,1103


----------



## AudioNewbi3

mochill said:


> Getting mojito


 
  
 Welcome to the club mate!


danneq said:


> Zen 1 should last a long way.
> 
> Perhaps you can buy these vintage Aiwa earbuds
> 
> ...


 
  
 Imaging if you have the guts to recable them with pure silver wires....


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> Imaging if you have the guts to recable them with pure silver wires....


 


 I've been after a pair of V99 for 5 years, but since they are discontinued for over 20 years the prices keep on rising. I remember about 4 years ago a pair sold on Ebay for around $400. Now they would probably sell for around $600 or more.

 Even if they are the best earbuds ever, I wonder if the price is worth it. I mean, if I can get 80-90% of the sound quality from a pair of earbuds that cost $100-150, I feel that that's enough for me. Also, vintage earbuds might break. One pair of my Sony MDR-E484 the driver just died one day and I could not revive it. I still have a pair of E484, but I do not like to take vintage earbuds outside.

 This is why I love the resurgence of earbuds with Chinese makers like Blox, VE & Music Maker who release amazing sounding earbuds.


----------



## rggz

Btw, did the TG-JL1 disappear or tingo has been discontinued that earbud? Tingo's has good products by the price, but i didn't see people talking much about them here, worth some model?


----------



## nofarewell

audionewbi3 said:


> Welcome to the club mate!
> 
> Imaging if you have the guts to recable them with pure silver wires....


 
 I actually listened to a set of V99s which was recabled with pure silver cables not long ago. It was total musical bliss, far better than the original. And I might buy that one soon. I have another one in a really preserved state and one in very bad shape, that will be recabled too.
 Beautiful, wonderful earbuds, cannot get enough of them  But I'd desperately need other Aiwas, like a T10 and an X10. Those are over-ear, not buds, I know, still I want them...


----------



## golov17

Left driver on my seahf ld3.0 400 began to crack. Sucks


----------



## Saoshyant

Please tell me you were listening to Under Pressure, because if they cracked while Under Pressure...


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> Can you afford a cygnus?
> or asura or monk?
> 
> My edimun is shipped by the way, really excited
> ...



Already tried cygnus. Similar with Zen 2, so i sold it. (I have zen 2).
I have asura v1, old monk, and monk+ too. Still unsatisfied with them 




danneq said:


> Zen 1 should last a long way.
> 
> 
> Perhaps you can buy these vintage Aiwa earbuds :wink_face:  (V99 is described as one of the best earbud ever made - I haven't heard it though):
> http://www.ebay.de/itm/252423657323?_trksid=p2055359.m1431.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT



It's still out of my budget, mate. But damn, i really wanna buy it now since you mention it so awesome




			
				golov17 said:
			
		

> .
> Ubiquo-Ucotech es903,1003,1103



Yeah, ucotech es903 is my next candidat. But have you ever tried ath c770 sir? I mean maybe i could get what i'm searching for on that price (around $40)


----------



## golov17

No pressure. I listen to them with Shaling m2 without amp. Now just turned on them and they suddenly began giving overtone, which moved to the crash.


----------



## golov17

joy boy said:


> Already tried cygnus. Similar with Zen 2, so i sold it. (I have zen 2).
> I have asura v1, old monk, and monk+ too. Still unsatisfied with them
> It's still out of my budget, mate. But damn, i really wanna buy it now since you mention it so awesome
> Yeah, ucotech es903 is my next candidat. But have you ever tried ath c770 sir? I mean maybe i could get what i'm searching for on that price (around $40)


i tried, but.. no


----------



## Joy Boy

golov17 said:


> i tried, but.. no



Thanks for advice. Almost buy it. I think i'll wait and save some money for PK1 or mojito


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

New to this audiophile stuff. The highest quality I have ever used in my life was (and is at the moment) the Apple EarPods. When I got them with the new Nano, I was blown away (everything I had used before paled in comparison). Unfortunately they hurt my ears if I listened for too long, and the bass wasn't amazing unless volume was cranked up.
  
 I like to listen to music while I study for long hours, so it's crucial that earbuds don't hurt my ears. And I dislike in-ear's because they hurt my ears in a matter of minutes. So I decided to research non in-ear earbuds. And man did I jump into the rabbit hole lol.
  
 I just ordered Edifier H180, Baldoor E100, Shozy Cygnus, and VE Monk+.
  
 Edifier and Baldoors should be in today...I'm excited lol.


----------



## Saoshyant

Welcome to Head-Fi, and sorry for your wallet @Tayyab Pirzada
  
 I'm hoping my Cygnus arrives today, it'd be nice to finally hear it.


----------



## fairx

Guys. 

Can we expect resurgence of earbuds in coming years? Seems like it, but many impressive earbud actually came from NOS. 

How's the industry embracing earbud recently? Will there be many more coming from China or Japan perhaps.?


----------



## golov17

already, lol


----------



## ngoshawk

tayyab pirzada said:


> New to this audiophile stuff. The highest quality I have ever used in my life was (and is at the moment) the Apple EarPods. When I got them with the new Nano, I was blown away (everything I had used before paled in comparison). Unfortunately they hurt my ears if I listened for too long, and the bass wasn't amazing unless volume was cranked up.
> 
> I like to listen to music while I study for long hours, so it's crucial that earbuds don't hurt my ears. And I dislike in-ear's because they hurt my ears in a matter of minutes. So I decided to research non in-ear earbuds. And man did I jump into the rabbit hole lol.
> 
> ...




Congrats, and welcome! You may want to consider the Fiio EM3, in addition to your fine choices. Excellent little bud (actually smaller bud!) for $10-15 US dollars, too.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Ok so the Edifier P180's came in, which include a button for stop/play/next song function. Good but not overpowering bass (not as powerful as Apple EarPods, but I don't really mind), absolutely amazing and crisp mids, and great treble without much sibilance. Sounds much better and is way more comfortable than Apple EarPods. These are my go-to earbuds for now.
  
 Unfortunately the Baldoor E100's were defective or something. When I plugged it into my iPod, I just heard this static clicking sound. They wouldn't work at all. So I'm returning them and buying another pair.
  
 Here's a photo I took of them: https://imgur.com/tbrLqSU


----------



## Danneq

fairx said:


> Guys.
> 
> Can we expect resurgence of earbuds in coming years? Seems like it, but many impressive earbud actually came from NOS.
> 
> How's the industry embracing earbud recently? Will there be many more coming from China or Japan perhaps.?


 

 Are you sure? The only earbuds that use NOS drivers that I've heard of is Rose Mojito and Shozy Cygnus.

 I was thinking of makers such as Ostry (KC08), Astrotec (Lyra and now Lyra6) and Dunu (Alpha 1) who makes great sounding earbuds with their own/custom design of housings.

 When I got in to earbuds around 6-7 years ago there was only Yuin unless you wanted to get into vintage earbuds from mainly Sony and Aiwa (and also Panasonic and JVC among other Japanese makers).
 While AKG and Sennheiser have abandoned high end earbuds I still have hope for Chinese makers.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Alright guys, seeing as some of you are asking how large is the Rose Mojito, I have deliberately taken the time to measure them with a pair of calipers (bought in the dollar store (CM)).

 Typical MX500 Housing

  
 Typical Yuin Housing

  
 Rose Mojito Housing

  
 Surprisingly, the size of the 3 housing goes like these (from smallest to largest)

 Mojito > Yuin > MX500

 Hope this helps.
 Cheers


----------



## ZerkMeister

Whoa so Mojito is the smallest in that group? Picture made em look huge.
Im really debating on getting VE Zen 2 + RA Plus Amp vs Mojito.


----------



## fairx

danneq said:


> Are you sure? The only earbuds that use NOS drivers that I've heard of is Rose Mojito and Shozy Cygnus.
> 
> 
> I was thinking of makers such as Ostry (KC08), Astrotec (Lyra and now Lyra6) and Dunu (Alpha 1) who makes great sounding earbuds with their own/custom design of housings.
> ...



I'm not sure if diy dual driver also NOS. But I hope the earbud will continue and NOS just filling the gap at the moment. 

Actually I'm just frustrated with the high Z trend with newer earbud (I can somehow understand the reason behind) while NOS low Z. At least musicmaker offer low impedance, but also offer 300ohm TO300. 

BTW anybody tried the TO300?


----------



## kurtextrem

A few pages back we were talking about gaming + earbuds and such.
 Did someone order the DK-Jin?
  
 Someone talked about the Blox TM7. Is it still available anywhere?


----------



## irgunawan

ryanjsoo said:


> Looks to be the Edifier h180, only the cable is changed.


 
 Right, its seem just recabling. But have some tuning on housing and driver too.


----------



## music4mhell

I asked EE seller to liste Mojito, he said he wil do it.
 So mojito is coming to my collection very soon


----------



## mochill

All the rose technology will be at penonaudio soon


----------



## AudioNewbi3

nofarewell said:


> I actually listened to a set of V99s which was recabled with pure silver cables not long ago. It was total musical bliss, far better than the original. And I might buy that one soon. I have another one in a really preserved state and one in very bad shape, that will be recabled too.
> Beautiful, wonderful earbuds, cannot get enough of them  But I'd desperately need other Aiwas, like a T10 and an X10. Those are over-ear, not buds, I know, still I want them...


 
  
 Wow, I am amazed that someone actually had the guts to recab a V99. Must have sounded heavenly! Good luck on your Aiwa purchase!


tayyab pirzada said:


> New to this audiophile stuff. The highest quality I have ever used in my life was (and is at the moment) the Apple EarPods. When I got them with the new Nano, I was blown away (everything I had used before paled in comparison). Unfortunately they hurt my ears if I listened for too long, and the bass wasn't amazing unless volume was cranked up.
> 
> I like to listen to music while I study for long hours, so it's crucial that earbuds don't hurt my ears. And I dislike in-ear's because they hurt my ears in a matter of minutes. So I decided to research non in-ear earbuds. And man did I jump into the rabbit hole lol.
> 
> ...


 
  Welcome to Head-fi and sorry for your wallet. *wink*
  


zerkmeister said:


> Whoa so Mojito is the smallest in that group? Picture made em look huge.
> Im really debating on getting VE Zen 2 + RA Plus Amp vs Mojito.


 
  
 I was actually in the same position as you, it all depends on what sound signature you like more.
 My primary preference was for the sound signature of the mojitos, so yeah......
  


music4mhell said:


> I asked EE seller to liste Mojito, he said he wil do it.
> So mojito is coming to my collection very soon


 
 Welcome to the club hahaha


----------



## Danneq

kurtextrem said:


> Someone talked about the Blox TM7. Is it still available anywhere?


 

 Only if you can find a second hand pair. They were sold for a very limited period in 2012. All of Blox' earbuds are limited, and especially the flagship buds. I remember sitting in front of the computer clicking on the update button every 2 minutes the day that a new batch of TM7 was going to be released. I think my pair was from the second or third batch. Only a couple of hundred were released in total.


----------



## kurtextrem

Wow really? 
damn...
Well what comes close to it when speaking about 3d positioning?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Are the Rose Mojito's really that good? Better than Zen 2? And what are your guys opinions on MX985?
  
 What is the best earbud in the world, in your opinions?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

And is it true that if you're not using an amp, the Cygnus is better sounding than the Zen 2?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

> Only if you can find a second hand pair. They were sold for a very limited period in 2012. All of Blox' earbuds are limited, and especially the flagship buds. I remember sitting in front of the computer clicking on the update button every 2 minutes the day that a new batch of TM7 was going to be released. I think my pair was from the second or third batch. Only a couple of hundred were released in total


 
 This is probably why everyone should get the Shozy Cygnus while it's still available lol


----------



## music4mhell

tayyab pirzada said:


> And is it true that if you're not using an amp, the Cygnus is better sounding than the Zen 2?


 
 Yes that's for sure, Zen 2 shines only with a good AMP.


----------



## Danneq

kurtextrem said:


> Wow really?
> damn...
> Well what comes close to it when speaking about 3d positioning?


 

 Personally I think that Sennheiser OMX980/MX980/MX985 isn't too far from it. And personally I think that Tomahawk is great at 3D positioning of instruments. It punches way above its price level in that category. Ting is also good at that but more "distance" sounding which somewhat reduced how that 3D positioning appears to you.

 EDIT: have to add Zen 2 which is currently sold and has got a great 3D feel and positioning of instruments. But you need an amp and Zen 2 doesn't like foams...
  


tayyab pirzada said:


> Are the Rose Mojito's really that good? Better than Zen 2? And what are your guys opinions on MX985?
> 
> What is the best earbud in the world, in your opinions?


 

 As far as I understand it, Mojito has got a different sound signature than Zen 2 and MX985 with more focus on upper mids and highs. MX985 is great. I recently found a second hand pair of MX985 and sold my pair of MX980. The sound is just about the same with MX985 being slightly quieter. When I A-B'd  them with my MX980 before selling them, I had to raise volume about 2 "click" when changing from MX980 to MX985. I like the cable and plug better on the MX985 so I'm glad I managed to find a pair.

 If you ask different people about which earbud is the best you will probably get different answers. I have some experience both with older/vintage earbuds and with earbuds currently sold, and for me TM7 is no 1. But I have not heard all top Aiwa earbuds from the 80's and 90's.
 From newer earbud models, I would say that I like MX980/985 the best with VE Zen 1 coming really close. Shozy Cygnus is also up there as well as my "budget favorite" Tomahawk...


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

How about VE Monk's?


----------



## music4mhell

tayyab pirzada said:


> How about VE Monk's?


 
 VE Monk is Toyota corolla, Zen 2 is Merc S Class


----------



## Danneq

VE Monk is the gateway drug to the world of earbuds...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tayyab pirzada said:


> Are the Rose Mojito's really that good? Better than Zen 2? And what are your guys opinions on MX985?
> 
> What is the best earbud in the world, in your opinions?


 
  
 Rose Mojito is the best earbud in my current collection (for detailed and airy sound)
 Where as SeaHF 320 Ohm V1 is the "darkest" earbud in my collection (If I wanted an intimate soundsignature)
  
 No one earbud can be considered best in the world. It all depends on what your preferences are.
 I think you should make first make sure what type of sound-signature you prefer, then look for the earbud which suit you the most. 


tayyab pirzada said:


> And is it true that if you're not using an amp, the Cygnus is better sounding than the Zen 2?


 
  
 My Cygnus is always amped as I always use it with my XduooX3 via an AMP.


----------



## fairx

danneq said:


> VE Monk is the gateway drug to the world of earbuds...


 
 can't argue with that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, me included!


----------



## Saoshyant

I know for me, after getting the Mojito the MX985 have been collecting a bit of dust.  They're both quite good, immensely good.  The Mojito is for my tastes the better performer, and extremely comfortable.


----------



## Danneq

saoshyant said:


> I know for me, after getting the Mojito the MX985 have been collecting a bit of dust.  They're both quite good, immensely good.  The Mojito is for my tastes the better performer, and extremely comfortable.


 


 What music are you listening to? I own a pair of vintage Aiwa HP-D9, which I think might very close to Rose Mojito when it comes to sound signature - extremly open soundstage and detailed highs with light bass. I mostly listen to rock or metal and love the detail on the D9, but overall I prefer a more balanced sound that, for example, MX980/985 can give me.

 I didn't buy Rose Mojito when it was less than $200, but I am still a little bit tempted to try it out. Let's hope it goes on sale again...


----------



## Saoshyant

I'm mostly an Alt Rock listener with some classical as well.  To me, for an earbud I don't feel the Mojito is bass light.  It's sub bass is actually rather impressive, and the mid bass feels quick but certainly not lacking for this format of earphone.  I love the repeating bass lines in Radiohead's Nude with the Mojito.
  
 Also, just remember to pay better attention to photos on eBay when buying an earphone case, because I kind of forgot to...


----------



## Joy Boy

tayyab pirzada said:


> Are the Rose Mojito's really that good? Better than Zen 2? And what are your guys opinions on MX985?
> 
> What is the best earbud in the world, in your opinions?



Audio is about synergy. And everyone has they're own preference of the sound. So, if you ask what's the best bud? There's no absolute one.
Everyone has they're own favorite, and it's so subjective.

Just enjoy your set up and be happy with it


----------



## fleasbaby

...ordered a pair of the Rose Mojito today, and started this thread if anyone is interested:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/811450/rose-mojito-earbuds#post_12656280


----------



## golov17

Del


----------



## vapman

Edimun on the way!



Oops beaten by golov...!


----------



## dearyon

Hello everyone!
 Firstly I'd like to say thank you to sir ClieOS for making this super awesome thread! 
 This thread is such a real good reference for me who newly poisoned to earbuds 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks to this thread and every Tomahawk reviewer out there which convinced me to buy this baby, I've finally find my Queen (for now)
 Tomahawk really the best earbuds in this price range for me, I couldn't ask for more.
 what I really like about her:
 -that extended and slightly harsh high which make every electric guitar sound more alive
 -deep and tight bass with a nice amount of sub bass which make listening to speedy drum such a bless
 -clean, natural and detailed vocal
 -wide sound stage with nice depth
 -perfect fit for my ears better than Monk-type housing (I have big ears), sturdy build, and finally an earbuds I purchased that include a chin slider! Edit: I forget that Monk+ also include a chin slider
 -and this is the first time I hear instrumental "shaped" that good. I really don't know how to explain this one. I think it is called Hi-Res? (forgive my noobness)

 I'm a person who often listen to a music with lot of drum and acoustic/electric guitar in it (metal, rock and pop) sometimes I listen to EDM with vocals and jazz. So Tomahawk really fit my bill perfectly.

 I've AB ing this baby with my earbuds collection, Monk, Monk+ and Elibuds Sabia. The one that come close to Tomahawk is the Elibuds Sabia. They have almost the same type of sound (bright) IMHO. So if I have to rank my earbuds:
 1. Tomahawk - My Queen
 2. Elibuds Sabia - Same sound type with Tomahawk but less refined, slightly dry and laid back vocal. Sound stage is almost as wide as Tomahawk but with less depth.
 3. Monk+ - Actually it come real close to Elibuds Sabia in term of sound quality but I prefer Elibuds sound type because Monk+ sound dark to me especially on female vocal and lack a bit quantity on sub bass. But the vocal on Monk+ is more forward here than Tomahawk or Sabia in my hearing someone will consider that as a plus.
 4. Monk - Less better separation that above buds but have fuller sound than Monk+ and Sabia. 

 Do take note that this comparison is coming from someone who have less than one year of experience and are really subjective.
 This rank is to be expected as Tomahawk is my most expensive earbuds (haven't tried any earbuds that higher than her price) lol
  
 Now I'm saving up to buy a decent DAC/Amp and to buy one flagship earbuds.
 I have eye for MX985, , Zen 1 and Zen 2. How do they compare? can anyone give me some impression or advice?
 TM7 which really hard to find even the second hand and Mojito which will not fit my taste of music are out of option...

 And this is actually my first post on Head-Fi after years being a silent reader


----------



## Danneq

Welcome to Head fi and the world of earbuds! Thank you for sharing your impressions.

 You could include Shozy Cygnus in your list. They are not too expensive and a small step up from Tomahawk (even if I really like Tomahawk's sound signature). Tomahawk's big brother Ting is also quite nice.

 Oh - and sorry for for your wallet!


----------



## ryanjsoo

danneq said:


> Welcome to Head fi and the world of earbuds! Thank you for sharing your impressions.
> 
> You could include Shozy Cygnus in your list. They are not too expensive and a small step up from Tomahawk (even if I really like Tomahawk's sound signature). Tomahawk's big brother Ting is also quite nice.
> 
> Oh - and sorry for for your wallet!


 
  
 Second that, just came from the Tomahawk to the Cygnus and personally think the Cygnus is a good upgrade. Ting is also worth a look.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Now I understand what "sorry for your wallet" means lol. Once you go headphone, you don't go back. It's down the rabbit hole.


----------



## ngoshawk

tayyab pirzada said:


> Now I understand what "sorry for your wallet" means lol. Once you go headphone, you don't go back. It's down the rabbit hole.




It definitely gets deeper! And "fuller of sound!"


----------



## Joy Boy

dearyon said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> Firstly I'd like to say thank you to sir ClieOS for making this super awesome thread!
> 
> ...



Welcome mate!
Mx985 is the closest to TM7 sound sign.
While ve zen V1 offers you the best bass in earbud world but a little bit laid back in vocal.
Zen v2 has dark typical sound. More relaxing and fun for long listening with superb detail (micro detail).
Or Maybe you can find another blox series that still come up on circle. Blox Be7 is the best that i have from blox series.

But new seahf really got my attention now

*btw, are you indonesian?


----------



## dearyon

@Joy Boy

 The thing that I worry about MX985 is the fitting, that is why I'm adding Zens into my consider list. If the MX use Zen/Monk type of housing I wouldn't think twice to save my money for it. And the cable too, Sennheiser could use better cable on MX985. It look thin from the picture lol. But, I know that Sennheiser have abandoned their earbuds for years now.

 And yes I'm Indonesian. Are you too?


 Quote: 





danneq said:


> Welcome to Head fi and the world of earbuds! Thank you for sharing your impressions.
> 
> You could include Shozy Cygnus in your list. They are not too expensive and a small step up from Tomahawk (even if I really like Tomahawk's sound signature). Tomahawk's big brother Ting is also quite nice.
> 
> Oh - and sorry for for your wallet!


 
   
 Quote:


ryanjsoo said:


> Second that, just came from the Tomahawk to the Cygnus and personally think the Cygnus is a good upgrade. Ting is also worth a look.


 
  
 Alright, thanks for the recommendation added Cygnus and Ting into my consider list. And about Tomahawk big brother, I really curious about the impression of TO300, I think it is an upgraded version of Tomahawk? Anyone got their hand on it?


----------



## ryanjsoo

dearyon said:


> Alright, thanks for the recommendation added Cygnus and Ting into my consider list. And about Tomahawk big brother, I really curious about the impression of TO300, I think it is an upgraded version of Tomahawk? Anyone got their hand on it?


 


clieos said:


> Here are some of my recent acquirement (*forgot to include the Tuner/调音师's earbuds):
> 
> 
> 
> Pai Audio 3.14 Flat (or PR1?) and Fareal are both big surprise to me on how good they sound relative to how low they cost, especially on Fareal. Early impression is that, both of them should be solid upper Good if not lower Great. Monk+ is also a solid offering, more accurate than old Monk but also slightly less fun. Overall a small improvement to my ears. Lyra6 is an interesting sounding earbud, right now it is more of a middle Great earbud to me, will need more time to decide. The new Music Maker / MrZ / ToneKing TO300 just arrived a couple of hours ago - priced higher than Ting and Tomahawk, I had some high hope that it might be able to compete with the Champion (and for that, I opted for the more expensive silver plated single crystal cable version). But to my surprise and disappointment, I don't really like it over Ting or Tomahawk - it sort of sound like Ting without its edge and clarity. Still a pretty good earbuds overall, but more of a mid-to-lower Great tier to my ears. For now, I'll rather recommend Ting or Tomahawk over it. Will give it a few days of burn-in and see how it goes.


 
  
 Might have to burn in your credit card too! Unfortunately looks like the TO300 is a no go.


----------



## music4mhell

i asked EE to list mojito yesterday,and he listed today, wow he is super fast.


----------



## fairx

ryanjsoo said:


> Unfortunately looks like the TO300 is a no go.


 
 sigh..~


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I'm really intrigued by the Rose Mojito's...But they are darn expensive. I wish there was a way to get them for less cost. Do they sound good without amp though?
  
 I don't really use Amp (which is why I ordered the Shozy Cygnus over the Zen 2's)


----------



## Joy Boy

dearyon said:


> Alright, thanks for the recommendation added Cygnus and Ting into my consider list. And about Tomahawk big brother, I really curious about the impression of TO300, I think it is an upgraded version of Tomahawk? Anyone got their hand on it?



Please never purchase TO300. It's a disappointment compared to his big bro (toma & ting).
Mx985's cable always be a big issue. It's so fragile. But i think it can fit well on my ears just like others bud.
But i prefer zen 1 over mx985. 
Zen 1>zen 2>mx985>be7. That's my rank for now.

And yeah, i'm indonesian too


----------



## dearyon

ryanjsoo said:


> Might have to burn in your credit card too! Unfortunately looks like the TO300 is a no go.


 
  
 So sir ClieOS already got his hand on it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 thanks for pointing this out! :3

 That was an early impression from him, I think I will wait for the burn-in effect of TO300. Until then the Cygnus is the best bet for now. It doesn't need an amp to be good.
 But I don't want to upgrade my earbuds soon, still want to enjoy my time with Tomahawk 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 

@Joy Boy
 I'm really happy to find my friend from Indonesia here hehe. Salam kenal :3

 So Sennheiser earbuds cable is still that fragile huh.
 Because I remember back in the past I have MX170 and break two of them in less than a month. Really not good cable for going out.
 Now to think about it, I'm wondering where to get the Zen 1 since it already discontinued long time ago.


----------



## vapman

I'm seriously considering mojito again but which nos driver is it?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tayyab pirzada said:


> I'm really intrigued by the Rose Mojito's...But they are darn expensive. I wish there was a way to get them for less cost. Do they sound good without amp though?
> 
> I don't really use Amp (which is why I ordered the Shozy Cygnus over the Zen 2's)


 
 They  are only 12 ohms mate. And yes, they sound bloody fantastic (that is IF you like a wide an airy sound, neutral and also highly detailed sound signature)


vapman said:


> I'm seriously considering mojito again but which nos driver is it?


 
 Not sure if it's a NOS driver or built completely from the ground up.
 Panasonic RP-HV100


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> Not sure if it's a NOS driver or built completely from the ground up.
> Panasonic RP-HV100


 

 Do you mean Technics RP-HV100?

 I owned a pair of RP-HV600 and didn't really like them. Very thin sounding. Like someone had sucked out all lows and mids and there were only some highs left. I bought them NiB for around $80 (I was lucky to find a pair of discontinued vintage earbuds that cheap), so I do not think they were broken.

 I hold Sony and Aiwa vintage earbuds far above Panasonic/Technics.

 EDIT: By the way, genuine Technics RP-HV100 can be very expensive...


----------



## golov17

Panasonic HJ329


----------



## rggz

Is this Panasonic exclusive for Asian market? I can't find a specific model, just random pictures.
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## golov17




----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> ...
> Not sure if it's a NOS driver or built completely from the ground up.
> Panasonic RP-HV100


 
  
 The back casing is from HJ329, but I read a post somewhere by the guy who run Rose Tech that they use a custom bass driver instead of the driver that is originally in Panasonic. He did show a picture of comparison. The treble driver is completely new and not related to Panasonic at all.
  


danneq said:


> Do you mean Technics RP-HV100?
> 
> I owned a pair of RP-HV600 and didn't really like them. Very thin sounding. Like someone had sucked out all lows and mids and there were only some highs left. I bought them NiB for around $80 (I was lucky to find a pair of discontinued vintage earbuds that cheap), so I do not think they were broken.
> 
> ...


 
  
 HV600 and HV100 are two very different beast. HV600, technically speaking, is not a dual driver, as it is a single driver dual diaphragms (one active and one passive). HV100 is however a true dual driver. Never hear the HV100 myself, but everything I read about them said that HV600 is not as good as HV100.
  
  


rggz said:


> Is this Panasonic exclusive for Asian market? I can't find a specific model, just random pictures.


 
  
 HJ329 was never sold as a standalone model. It was first released as the stock earbuds for Panasonics last flagship CD player (CT830) in Japan (*the rest of the world get cheap earbuds for their CT830). Then it was shipped with a handful of top Panasonic mp3 players in Japan before it was discontinued. Now it only exists on Taobao as NOS unit, leftover from old Panasonic accessories stock.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> Do you mean Technics RP-HV100?
> 
> I owned a pair of RP-HV600 and didn't really like them. Very thin sounding. Like someone had sucked out all lows and mids and there were only some highs left. I bought them NiB for around $80 (I was lucky to find a pair of discontinued vintage earbuds that cheap), so I do not think they were broken.
> 
> ...


 
 ClieOS basically answered all of our doubts hahaha


----------



## Danneq

Yep, as always CloeOS comes to the rescue!


----------



## Joy Boy

dearyon said:


> So sir ClieOS already got his hand on it
> 
> thanks for pointing this out! :3
> 
> ...



Salam kenal 

I've heard that lee will make an event so you can trade your bud (any bud) for zen v1 and old asura. Just follow the news on their facebook page.
So sad all of the the king buds is hard to find now 



golov17 said:


> Panasonic HJ329



Good detail, less bass. I'm more interested on the player than the bud. Do you know what's the player series sir?


----------



## golov17

joy boy said:


> I'm more interested on the player than the bud. Do you know what's the player series sir?


?? http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up-update-april-17th-2016/5430#post_12658207


----------



## Danneq

joy boy said:


> Good detail, less bass. I'm more interested on the player than the bud. Do you know what's the player series sir?


 

 If you use an auction agent, like Buyee, you can perhaps find those Panasonic players pretty cheap on Yahoo auction. But then you have to pay fees for the auction and to the auction agent. As well as shipping from the seller to the auction agent and then from the auction agent to you. And perhaps customs fees as well...

 I found the manual for those 10 year old Panasonic SD-players and they cannot play many formats - mainly MP3, AAC & WAV.

 Memory cards up to 2 GB officially supported (but I think it can support more).


----------



## Joy Boy

danneq said:


> If you use an auction agent, like Buyee, you can perhaps find those Panasonic players pretty cheap on Yahoo auction. But then you have to pay fees for the auction and to the auction agent. As well as shipping from the seller to the auction agent and then from the auction agent to you. And perhaps customs fees as well...
> 
> 
> I found the manual for those 10 year old Panasonic SD-players and they cannot play many formats - mainly MP3, AAC & WAV.
> ...



You still can find them on japan ol-shop.
I found it on amazon.jp ($700-800) and second hand on rakuten.jp.
They looks so pretty. But it's a big no for the memory capacity. Same like trekstor i.beat.rock.
Amazing sound with only 512mb internal memory, without external sd slot


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

So Baldoor E100's that actually work came in the mail today. Going to test these babies. And I couldn't help myself and ordered the Rose Technology Mojito's...My wallet is screaming right now. This is the end for now lol. I'm going to review all the ones I've ordered once I get them.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

So my second pair of Baldoor E100's came in today, and they had the same problem as the first pair I got. They literally would not play at all on my iPod. All I hear is a static clicking noise. They work on my laptop though, oddly. Does anyone else have this problem?
  
 I'm using an iPod Nano 8th generation.
  
 But even on my laptop, the sound is nothing special. Barely any bass. My Edifiers are better in my opinion.


----------



## rggz

tayyab pirzada said:


> So my second pair of Baldoor E100's came in today, and they had the same problem as the first pair I got. They literally would not play at all on my iPod. All I hear is a static clicking noise. They work on my laptop though, oddly. Does anyone else have this problem?
> 
> I'm using an iPod Nano 8th generation.
> 
> But even on my laptop, the sound is nothing special. Barely any bass. My Edifiers are better in my opinion.


 
  
 The problem with Baldoor E100's nowadays is they have downgraded something on the quality and after some batches it doesn't match with old pairs anymore, they were used to be great earbuds and the best in their price range - IMHO - , now it is a lottery finds a good pair, then you feedback isn't really a surprise if they have sounded really bad. Btw if you're buying the specific "Baldoor" brand and it comes with a triangle package you'd try the Mrice brand instead Baldoor your chances of obtaining a good pair will increase a little.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Yeah to clarify, I got Mrice both times. And they wierdly don't work on my iPod at all.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Question: are you supposed to add foams to the Rose Mojito?


----------



## golov17

Seahf LD3.0 400 Ohm drivers for replacement under warranty from good seller  HCK Recommended


----------



## dearyon

joy boy said:


> Salam kenal
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the info, just joined VE group on FB 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But I think I can't participate in Lee's event because I don't have any vintage earbuds to trade... though, I really want to have Zen 1 so much.
 Guess I'll just wait for someone to sell one or wait for new VE flagship in the future


----------



## Joy Boy

dearyon said:


> Thanks for the info, just joined VE group on FB
> 
> But I think I can't participate in Lee's event because I don't have any vintage earbuds to trade... though, I really want to have Zen 1 so much.
> 
> Guess I'll just wait for someone to sell one or wait for new VE flagship in the future



If i can get another one, may be i'll sell it to you.
Or, you can wait for ve nirvana. Next ve flagship (maybe)


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, as I'm not willing to take my Mojito, MX985 or DK-Jin with me to work, I've settled on my every day pair of earbuds that I don't mind taking with me everywhere.  At 150 Ohm it feels a little anemic with a Sansa Clip+ but is still certainly enjoyable, and the sound fills out nicely with my Fiio M3 or better.  It claims to use the PK1 driver, but until I know for sure I'll leave it at that.  Sound-wise, it's really enjoyable.  Instruments feel detailed, but I suspect for some the treble might be a little bit too much, although I'm not treble sensitive in the slightest, so I can't say I've ever found myself having issue in that respect.  Bass is certainly present, which definitely makes me smile.  I wish I had more analytical ears so I'd be able to adequately describe sound stage and such, but alas that is certainly not my strength.  Imaging feels decent, as I'm currently listening to the Nightmare Before Christmas soundtrack and do enjoy being able to identify where the instruments are.  Vocals are good, but perhaps might fall behind the instruments at times, but that could be an artifact of the recording I'm listening to.  For my tastes, I think I'm beginning to like it more than the DK-Jin.
  
 As far as it's name, it's just Easy Earphone's DIY PK1, which is a shame for identification purposes as there are a ton of various DIY PK1s out there unless I'm mistaken.  Price-wise, it's currently $58.50, but is without an MMCX cable, so I'm using a rather inexpensive cable also from Easy that I picked up for $9 or so.  If I get my hands on a good MMCX cable at some point, I'd be curious  to see how the sound changes, if it does.  In case anyone is interested, here's the link:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-New-Original-Speaker-Unit-With-Shell-can-change-wire-150-ohms-Original-Red-Film-without/32653325595.html


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Sadly, my SeaHf  400 ohm's developed a horrible buzzing in one driver. Makes me question the build quality of these units cause I don't think I have even 100 hours on these yet and @music4mhell
> 's SeaHf's started buzzing too.
> 
> Hoping it's just a hair stuck in it or something...


what about them?


----------



## kurtextrem

@Saoshyant: What's your opinion on the DK-Jin?


----------



## dearyon

joy boy said:


> If i can get another one, may be i'll sell it to you.
> Or, you can wait for ve nirvana. Next ve flagship (maybe)


 
 Woah! thanks a lot for the consideration, hope you will get one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I'm willing to pay high for it as long as the price isn't on "insane" level lol


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

What is VE Nirvana? Any info available on it?


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> What is VE Nirvana? Any info available on it?


 Only the name of the future flagship earbuds from VE


----------



## Saoshyant

kurtextrem said:


> @Saoshyant: What's your opinion on the DK-Jin?


 
  
 For their price, they strike me as pretty impressive, and it's one of the bassier earbuds I've heard with some amazing sub-bass (keeping in mind we're talking earbuds and not basshead earphones/headphones).  On certain tracks, the bass might feel a little heavy for some depending on tastes.  Vocally, the singer sounds close and remains clear, making me feel pretty immersed in the song at times.  Instruments sound detailed, but can and will be outdone by more analytical earbuds, but then again the Mojito has spoiled me in that respect.  High hats have a bit of a sparkle to them, which I enjoy.  To me as someone who listens to Alt Rock mainly, with a little classical on the side, I think for most of my music it's well suited.  I'm not the person to ask about sound stage, but things feel fairly close to me.


----------



## kurtextrem

saoshyant said:


> For their price, they strike me as pretty impressive, and it's one of the bassier earbuds I've heard with some amazing sub-bass (keeping in mind we're talking earbuds and not basshead earphones/headphones).  On certain tracks, the bass might feel a little heavy for some depending on tastes.  Vocally, the singer sounds close and remains clear, making me feel pretty immersed in the song at times.  Instruments sound detailed, but can and will be outdone by more analytical earbuds, but then again the Mojito has spoiled me in that respect.  High hats have a bit of a sparkle to them, which I enjoy.  To me as someone who listens to Alt Rock mainly, with a little classical on the side, I think for most of my music it's well suited.  I'm not the person to ask about sound stage, but things feel fairly close to me.


 
 From the bottom of my wallet: I hate you.
  
 I ordered right now. :<


----------



## ld100

kurtextrem said:


> From the bottom of my wallet: I hate you.
> 
> I ordered right now. :<




Which earbuds you talking about?


----------



## kurtextrem

ld100 said:


> Which earbuds you talking about?


 
 Dk-Jin


----------



## ld100

kurtextrem said:


> Dk-Jin




May I ask for a link to the seller?


----------



## kurtextrem

ld100 said:


> May I ask for a link to the seller?


 
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Original-Wooden-Earbuds-DK-Pu-Bass-Earbud-DK-JIN-DIY-Magic-Sound-MX985-Earbud/32576959704.html
 I took the blue cable though


----------



## Danneq

The copper colored cable is supposed to be of better quality...


----------



## kurtextrem

I thought so, but I don't think cable affects driver (-> sound) quality in the end.


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> what about them?




Waiting for a replacement...

I have been wanting to try dk Jin for a long time, and Saoshyant if the dk jins are too nice to bring outside for you (I use monk+ outside 99 of the time btw) let me know if you find something good enough let me know! I used to bring monk and ASG2.5 to work haha... now just monk

I'll have edimun, h180 edifier(stock), FAAEAL 300ohm, and Remax 303 in the mail


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman said:


> Waiting for a replacement...
> 
> I have been wanting to try dk Jin for a long time, and @Saoshyant if the dk jins are too nice to bring outside for you (I use monk+ outside 99 of the time btw) let me know if you find something good enough let me know! I used to bring monk and ASG2.5 to work haha... now just monk
> 
> I'll have edimun, h180 edifier(stock), FAAEAL 300ohm, and Remax 303 in the mail


 
  
 I think the main reason Easy's DIY PK1 is something I'm willing to bring with me everywhere vs the DK-Jin as they're around the same price is the detachable cable.  The cable I'm using also has a mic, so there's the convenience factor too.  But yeah, as gorgeous as the DK-Jin housing is, I'm a little protective of it.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Well %&*#, guess the Rose Mojito has truly destroyed my listening preference.

 After 200+ hours of burn in, I decided to give my Tomahawks a listen again.
 No doubt, they opened up quite a bit, but they now sound extremely veiled to my ears now......
 Bloody hell.....I can't make a proper judgment about the Tomahawks now after 200+ hours of burn in.
 The only thing I can assure you is that they opened up by abit. Tonality wise, I cannot tell. I am sorry. My ears............have been spoiled...

 Aww shyet.......


----------



## rggz

My hype thermometer head-fi in this week:

_Rose Mojito_
_DSQM II_
_TFZ Series 3/5_

 Please stay safe wallet, you don't need those bad guys just go listen to the last Gojira's album! You're happy with MX985, Cygnus and your others earbuds!


----------



## Danneq

If you use your Tomahawks exclusively for a day or two you will get used to it and stop comparing it to other earbuds. Our ears soon forget...


----------



## markkkun

hi!!

I'm a happy user of Tomahawk. I'm doubting if it's time to step up and buy the Cygnus.

Is it worth it? Is there a noticeable difference? (I mean considering the Cygnus prize)

Thanks in advance and sorry if there are mistakes in my post (regards from Spain)


----------



## ryanjsoo

markkkun said:


> hi!!
> 
> I'm a happy user of Tomahawk. I'm doubting if it's time to step up and buy the Cygnus.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Here`s some comparison I wrote up for fairx in PM:
  
 I really like the clear, neutral sound of the Tomahawks, but as some have reported, they do sound ever so slightly artificial and thin, something that you might or might not mind depending on preference. The Cygnus on the other hand do not sound even the slightest bit unnatural, they have a much smoother midrange that is slightly warmer with more body. The bass response is quite similar, the Cygnus has more emphasis on the mid-bass and upper bass is slightly more accentuated as well, but they don`t sound thick like the EM3 and Monk+. So far bass extension is similar, but the Cygnus is slightly more textured at the cost of tightness; the Tomahawks have a faster bass response. The more forward Tomahawks have more clarity but the Cygnus is more aggressively detailed. The treble responses are also reasonably similar but the Tomahawk is less extended and a little more brittle as well.
  
 I think both are fine choices, the Cygnus stands out in particular with a much more comfortable housing (at least for me personally), the metal strain reliefs from the Tomahawks hurt my ears after a few hours but it`s easy to forget you`re wearing the Cygnus. The Cygnus also has a really nice cable, as long as it isn`t green! Are the build and sound improvements are worth 3x the price? Maybe not, but they are definitely better than the Tomahawk sound wise. If you find the Tomahawks a little thin, perhaps a little anemic, mid-forward and bright, then the Cygnus are a very good upgrade. They`re warm, but still quite balanced on a whole and they are technically superior with more detail and texture to the sound.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Yet another wonderfully fun earbud from Wong Kuan Wae:  The "*NoSounD - Red Hat*".

 Juicy bass, warm mids and a touch of detail in the highs. 

 This is the first earbud, that I personally have heard that sound best without foams. 
  
  
 Couple quick photos I took of it over the weekend:  (Trying a new style out).
  

  

  

  

  

  
 --


----------



## vapman

For $5 they are almost good as monk to me. Monk has way more of a natural sound. These are like mini hifiman es100. good use of $5 if you like es100. Sadly it seems like everyone with an es100 ended up with theirs going bad. But these are nice so far. Great packaging especially for the price point.


----------



## markkkun

ryanjsoo said:


> Here`s some comparison I wrote up for fairx in PM:
> 
> I really like the clear, neutral sound of the Tomahawks, but as some have reported, they do sound ever so slightly artificial and thin, something that you might or might not mind depending on preference. The Cygnus on the other hand do not sound even the slightest bit unnatural, they have a much smoother midrange that is slightly warmer with more body. The bass response is quite similar, the Cygnus has more emphasis on the mid-bass and upper bass is slightly more accentuated as well, but they don`t sound thick like the EM3 and Monk+. So far bass extension is similar, but the Cygnus is slightly more textured at the cost of tightness; the Tomahawks have a faster bass response. The more forward Tomahawks have more clarity but the Cygnus is more aggressively detailed. The treble responses are also reasonably similar but the Tomahawk is less extended and a little more brittle as well.
> 
> I think both are fine choices, the Cygnus stands out in particular with a much more comfortable housing (at least for me personally), the metal strain reliefs from the Tomahawks hurt my ears after a few hours but it`s easy to forget you`re wearing the Cygnus. The Cygnus also has a really nice cable, as long as it isn`t green! Are the build and sound improvements are worth 3x the price? Maybe not, but they are definitely better than the Tomahawk sound wise. If you find the Tomahawks a little thin, perhaps a little anemic, mid-forward and bright, then the Cygnus are a very good upgrade. They`re warm, but still quite balanced on a whole and they are technically superior with more detail and texture to the sound.


 

 Thank you for your answer. I've checked your review too... and I'm really convinced to buy the Cygnus.


----------



## golov17

Arrived from Indonesia  
Like it 
#Edimun


----------



## luedriver

anyone know anything about theses philips she3200 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Genuine-Philips-SHE3200-Rich-Bass-Clear-Sound-OpenBack-Headphone-For-Smart-Phone-/111915115296?var=&hash=item1a0ea92320mNBeJJHGTMs_0z05n7VmqtA


----------



## Saoshyant

golov17 said:


> Arrived from Indonesia
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Gorgeous cable, can't help but wonder how it'd look with the Massdrop Monks.


----------



## dearyon

saoshyant said:


> I think the main reason Easy's DIY PK1 is something I'm willing to bring with me everywhere vs the DK-Jin as they're around the same price is the detachable cable.  The cable I'm using also has a mic, so there's the convenience factor too.  But yeah, as gorgeous as the DK-Jin housing is, I'm a little protective of it.


 
 That DIY PK1 was quite nice from its price point, a detachable cable is good
 There is a local seller here that sell the same driver. PK1 redfilm driver CMIIW
 I will try to make DIY earbud from it sometime on my own, hope the stock last though
  


audionewbi3 said:


> Well %&*#, guess the Rose Mojito has truly destroyed my listening preference.
> 
> After 200+ hours of burn in, I decided to give my Tomahawks a listen again.
> No doubt, they opened up quite a bit, but they now sound extremely veiled to my ears now......
> ...


 
 You really poisoning my mind to buy a Rose Mjito now D:
 If only the price could be lowered a bit orz
  


rggz said:


> My hype thermometer head-fi in this week:
> 
> _Rose Mojito_
> _DSQM II_
> ...


 
 What is DSQM II and TFZ 3/5? link please...
  


danneq said:


> If you use your Tomahawks exclusively for a day or two you will get used to it and stop comparing it to other earbuds. Our ears soon forget...


 
 Totally agree with this lol
  


ryanjsoo said:


> Here`s some comparison I wrote up for fairx in PM:
> 
> I really like the clear, neutral sound of the Tomahawks, but as some have reported, they do sound ever so slightly artificial and thin, something that you might or might not mind depending on preference. The Cygnus on the other hand do not sound even the slightest bit unnatural, they have a much smoother midrange that is slightly warmer with more body. The bass response is quite similar, the Cygnus has more emphasis on the mid-bass and upper bass is slightly more accentuated as well, but they don`t sound thick like the EM3 and Monk+. So far bass extension is similar, but the Cygnus is slightly more textured at the cost of tightness; the Tomahawks have a faster bass response. The more forward Tomahawks have more clarity but the Cygnus is more aggressively detailed. The treble responses are also reasonably similar but the Tomahawk is less extended and a little more brittle as well.
> 
> I think both are fine choices, the Cygnus stands out in particular with a much more comfortable housing (at least for me personally), the metal strain reliefs from the Tomahawks hurt my ears after a few hours but it`s easy to forget you`re wearing the Cygnus. The Cygnus also has a really nice cable, as long as it isn`t green! Are the build and sound improvements are worth 3x the price? Maybe not, but they are definitely better than the Tomahawk sound wise. If you find the Tomahawks a little thin, perhaps a little anemic, mid-forward and bright, then the Cygnus are a very good upgrade. They`re warm, but still quite balanced on a whole and they are technically superior with more detail and texture to the sound.


 
 Thanks for the detailed comparison
 I really won't upgrade my Tomahawk soon, still want to explore my music with it
  


markkkun said:


> hi!!
> 
> I'm a happy user of Tomahawk. I'm doubting if it's time to step up and buy the Cygnus.
> 
> ...


 
 Well, another Tomahawk lover here! Welcome 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


bloodypenguin said:


> Yet another wonderfully fun earbud from Wong Kuan Wae:  The "*NoSounD - Red Hat*".
> 
> Juicy bass, warm mids and a touch of detail in the highs.
> 
> ...


 
 I wonder how much the price is?
  


golov17 said:


> Arrived from Indonesia
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sir please give me your impression about this earbud... Because it is at almost the same price range from Tomahawk in Indonesia... really got me interested...

 and sorry for the looonnnggg quote lol


----------



## Joy Boy

dearyon never heard edimun? It's one of my top 10 bud. Really great sound. Fast and accurate bass reapon. Sparkling treble. On par with tomahawk, even better in my opinion.
You should try it, bro


----------



## golov17

Long life Edimun 
Warm analog sounds with goood bass and nice treble


----------



## dearyon

@Joy Boy
 I've heard it before but haven't find any detailed review about it yet, so I'm not really convinced to buy it
 But if you say that the bass is no. 2 from Zen 1 in your earbud list and that it also have sparkling treble, it really a must buy then orz

 @Sir Golov
 and if sir Golov confirming it, it a must must buy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 dam, glad I talked to this forum... my wallet is so thin now 

 though I heard that they are still in developing Edimun v3, should I wait for that?


----------



## Joy Boy

dearyon said:


> @Joy Boy
> 
> 
> I've heard it before but haven't find any detailed review about it yet, so I'm not really convinced to buy it
> ...



Yes, they're developing v3 now. Better treble and mid sector, they said.
What's your bud (collection and daily used) now?

golov17 it's great right? Enjoy it sir


----------



## golov17

joy boy said:


> Yes, they're developing v3 now. Better treble and mid sector, they said.
> What's your bud (collection and daily used) now?
> 
> golov17 it's great right? Enjoy it sir


  Right now with Edimun  
Also with LD3.0 400 ( nice buds)


----------



## dearyon

will definitely wait for v3 then :3

 I currently only have Monk, Monk+, Sabia, and Tomahawk in my possession now
 and some DIY buds part that I will assemble will come tomorrow
 Always bring Monk+ and Tomahawk when on the go, Monk+ sound sign is really good when I want to relax in my class lol
 I have Fiio EM3 in the past but already sold it to my friend because IMHO the sound is too warm for me


 and my current wait-and-then-buy list is:
 -VE Nirvana
 -Edimun V3
 -Elibuds next line Saida and maybe Asti
-Any Blox new line (because really, I want to try at least 1 Blox earbuds to hear their house sound sign)


----------



## nihontoman

hey guys. I'm new to earbuds, only decent one I've had was KZ omx2 and it was ok, but could be better. I want a earbud with the best sub-base performance. are there any earbuds that can play these frequencies adequately, or am I gonna be heavily disappointed? I don't want too much sub base, just need to hear it when it is in the music. any suggestions appreciated.
  
  
 (I'm searching for a earbud specifically, because full-size headphones aren't the most comfortable in hot summer days and iems while much more comfortable in this regard, still make my ears sore after several hours of continued wearing)


----------



## golov17

nihontoman said:


> hey guys. I'm new to earbuds, only decent one I've had was KZ omx2 and it was ok, but could be better. I want a earbud with the best sub-base performance. are there any earbuds that can play these frequencies adequately, or am I gonna be heavily disappointed? I don't want too much sub base, just need to hear it when it is in the music. any suggestions appreciated.
> 
> 
> (I'm searching for a earbud specifically, because full-size headphones aren't the most comfortable in hot summer days and iems while much more comfortable in this regard, still make my ears sore after several hours of continued wearing)


 welcome to first page in this thread


----------



## AudioNewbi3

rggz said:


> My hype thermometer head-fi in this week:
> 
> _Rose Mojito_
> _DSQM II_
> ...


 
  
 Stay safe wallet!
  


danneq said:


> If you use your Tomahawks exclusively for a day or two you will get used to it and stop comparing it to other earbuds. Our ears soon forget...


 
  
 True that, maybe I shall go on a Mojito Fasting journey!


ryanjsoo said:


> Here`s some comparison I wrote up for fairx in PM:
> 
> I really like the clear, neutral sound of the Tomahawks, but as some have reported, they do sound ever so slightly artificial and thin, something that you might or might not mind depending on preference. The Cygnus on the other hand do not sound even the slightest bit unnatural, they have a much smoother midrange that is slightly warmer with more body. The bass response is quite similar, the Cygnus has more emphasis on the mid-bass and upper bass is slightly more accentuated as well, but they don`t sound thick like the EM3 and Monk+. So far bass extension is similar, but the Cygnus is slightly more textured at the cost of tightness; the Tomahawks have a faster bass response. The more forward Tomahawks have more clarity but the Cygnus is more aggressively detailed. The treble responses are also reasonably similar but the Tomahawk is less extended and a little more brittle as well.
> 
> I think both are fine choices, the Cygnus stands out in particular with a much more comfortable housing (at least for me personally), the metal strain reliefs from the Tomahawks hurt my ears after a few hours but it`s easy to forget you`re wearing the Cygnus. The Cygnus also has a really nice cable, as long as it isn`t green! Are the build and sound improvements are worth 3x the price? Maybe not, but they are definitely better than the Tomahawk sound wise. If you find the Tomahawks a little thin, perhaps a little anemic, mid-forward and bright, then the Cygnus are a very good upgrade. They`re warm, but still quite balanced on a whole and they are technically superior with more detail and texture to the sound.


 
  
 The Cygnus is indeed a step-up from the Hawks. They sound more natural, and less grainy on high notes.


bloodypenguin said:


> Yet another wonderfully fun earbud from Wong Kuan Wae:  The "*NoSounD - Red Hat*".
> 
> Juicy bass, warm mids and a touch of detail in the highs.
> 
> ...


 
 Excellent photography skills as always!


----------



## mochill

nihontoman said:


> hey guys. I'm new to earbuds, only decent one I've had was KZ omx2 and it was ok, but could be better. I want a earbud with the best sub-base performance. are there any earbuds that can play these frequencies adequately, or am I gonna be heavily disappointed? I don't want too much sub base, just need to hear it when it is in the music. any suggestions appreciated.
> 
> 
> (I'm searching for a earbud specifically, because full-size headphones aren't the most comfortable in hot summer days and iems while much more comfortable in this regard, still make my ears sore after several hours of continued wearing)


zen 2.0 black edition


----------



## Joy Boy

dearyon said:


> will definitely wait for v3 then :3
> 
> 
> I currently only have Monk, Monk+, Sabia, and Tomahawk in my possession now
> ...



Are you "Miss D"? Just guess. May be i know you, may be not.
Try to find blox be7, or you can order m2c batch 3/b2000. That's the current series easier to find than others




nihontoman said:


> hey guys. I'm new to earbuds, only decent one I've had was KZ omx2 and it was ok, but could be better. I want a earbud with the best sub-base performance. are there any earbuds that can play these frequencies adequately, or am I gonna be heavily disappointed? I don't want too much sub base, just need to hear it when it is in the music. any suggestions appreciated.
> 
> 
> (I'm searching for a earbud specifically, be full-size headphones aren't the most comfortable in hot summer days and iems while much more comfortable in this regard, still make my ears sore after several hours of continued wearing)



Ve zen V.2 maybe

------------------------------------------------

Btw, i don't think cygnus is an upgrade from tomahawk. More refine, yes. More delicate, yes. But honestly the sound sign is too different. While tomahak sounds balance to bright, cygnus is a little bit warm. Tomahawk could be peaky sometimes, cygnus has a relaxing and fun sound. You can feel an ear fatigue in tomahawk sooner than cygnus (IMO)


----------



## nihontoman

golov17 said:


> welcome to first page in this thread


 
  
 yeah, I read it but only one that sounded right is the zen 1 which is discontinued and ostry kc08 
 needed some more recommendations though.


mochill said:


> zen 2.0 black edition


 
 thanks. so there are subbase extended buds. will look it up


----------



## vapman

nihontoman said:


> yeah, I read it but only one that sounded right is the zen 1 which is discontinued and ostry kc08
> needed some more recommendations though.
> thanks. so there are subbase extended buds. will look it up


 

 If you want powerful sub bass in an earbud you buy the SeaHf/fareal 400ohm. Not the Zen 2.0.
  
 I love the Zen 2 but it is not the one you want if you want sub bass response. Trust me.


----------



## nihontoman

vapman said:


> If you want powerful sub bass in an earbud you buy the SeaHf/fareal 400ohm. Not the Zen 2.0.
> 
> I love the Zen 2 but it is not the one you want if you want sub bass response. Trust me.


 
 it's not only the sub-base I want. I'm looking for good sound overall, but having sub-base that can be heard is a must. if it sounds good without sub-base, it's not that good and vice versa - if it only has good sub-base and everything else sucks, it's not an option. so if this SeaHf/fareal 400ohm bud has good general sound AND a sub-base response that is adequate, tell me where I can through my money at


----------



## vapman

nihontoman said:


> it's not only the sub-base I want. I'm looking for good sound overall, but having sub-base that can be heard is a must. if it sounds good without sub-base, it's not that good and vice versa - if it only has good sub-base and everything else sucks, it's not an option. so if this SeaHf/fareal 400ohm bud has good general sound AND a sub-base response that is adequate, tell me where I can through my money at


 

 SeaHf/Fareal is about $50.
 Zen 2 is $150.
  
 So for $100 you can expect things like clarity and detail is slightly better on zen. $100 better? maybe not. I use my seahf/fareal more often than the zen.
  
 I have written a review of SeaHf 400ohm. feel free to check it out, i think it both sounds great and has very very good sub bass.
  
 The zen 2 is great earbud but there are several i can think of from the top of my head that have powerful and deeper sub bass than Zen.


----------



## nihontoman

vapman said:


> SeaHf/Fareal is about $50.
> Zen 2 is $150.
> 
> So for $100 you can expect things like clarity and detail is slightly better on zen. $100 better? maybe not. I use my seahf/fareal more often than the zen.
> ...


 

 nice review. can't seem to find the 400ohm version. I managed to find the 300ohm faaeal but not sure if that has the same kind of sound. any info on those? ​


----------



## vapman

nihontoman said:


> nice review. can't seem to find the 400ohm version. I managed to find the 300ohm faaeal but not sure if that has the same kind of sound. any info on those? ​


 

 my 300ohm faaeal is still in the mail, so i don't know its' sound yet, but i know for a fact 400ohm version has the sound you want.
 i bought mine from AliExpress


----------



## nihontoman

vapman said:


> my 300ohm faaeal is still in the mail, so i don't know its' sound yet, but i know for a fact 400ohm version has the sound you want.
> i bought mine from AliExpress


 
 ok, got it. will wait for the impressions on the 300ohm version and look for the 400ohm one and decide afterwards   400ohm faaeal does sound like the one I'm looking for. thank you again for your reply. helped a lot


----------



## vapman

nihontoman said:


> ok, got it. will wait for the impressions on the 300ohm version and look for the 400ohm one and decide afterwards   400ohm faaeal does sound like the one I'm looking for. thank you again for your reply. helped a lot


 

 Maybe someone else here who owns both seahf and faaeal can confirm if they actually sound the same
  
 I think King Kong Golov does


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> Maybe someone else here who owns both seahf and faaeal can confirm if they actually sound the same
> 
> I think King Kong Golov does



I've ever had seahf 32,150,&320 ohm and fareal old batch & new batch. Fareal 64ohm still on delivery.
Nope,the sound is different. Seahf has a very unique bass. While fareal, in my opinion, more like monk v1. Both has warm sign. But i think seahf more powerfull and bettet impact. But sometimes could make the treble a little bit dull. Fareal more balance


----------



## golov17

I not know about Faaeal 300 sound sig.


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> I not know about Faaeal 300 sound sig.


 

 Mine will be here soon, next couple days.
  
 I vote everyone calls you King Kong Golov from now on...


----------



## irgunawan

vapman said:


> Mine will be here soon, next couple days.
> 
> I vote everyone calls you King Kong Golov from now on...


 
 Hahaha, vote +1 for King Kong Golov starting now.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Mine will be here soon, next couple days.
> 
> I vote everyone calls you King Kong Golov from now on...


lol


----------



## CingKrab

vapman said:


> King Kong Golov




When's the inauguration speech?


----------



## mochill

nihontoman said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > welcome to first page in this thread
> ...


best bass on an earbud i heard so far


----------



## ryanjsoo

You can get decent sub-bass on most solid earbuds, it`s just that it often comes with compromises in the other frequencies. It`s fiddly to find the right covers on earbuds but I find the Hiegi foams to give a better sub-bass response without too much midrange impact. They`re a little larger in diameter than most foams and thus seal a little better, but also have larger openings to avoid darkening the sound, pretty good buy.


----------



## dearyon

joy boy said:


> Are you "Miss D"? Just guess. May be i know you, may be not.
> Try to find blox be7, or you can order m2c batch 3/b2000. That's the current series easier to find than others
> Ve zen V.2 maybe
> Btw, i don't think cygnus is an upgrade from tomahawk. More refine, yes. More delicate, yes. But honestly the sound sign is too different. While tomahak sounds balance to bright, cygnus is a little bit warm. Tomahawk could be peaky sometimes, cygnus has a relaxing and fun sound. You can feel an ear fatigue in tomahawk sooner than cygnus (IMO)


 
 no I'm not, I'm a silent reader on FB lol
 But, I guess I know you from the photo of VE Zen 1 you posted on VE groups 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Do you know where to order any Blox earbuds? please enlighten me through PM. I'm afraid that this conversation will go into OOT direction...


----------



## nihontoman

joy boy said:


> I've ever had seahf 32,150,&320 ohm and fareal old batch & new batch. Fareal 64ohm still on delivery.
> Nope,the sound is different. Seahf has a very unique bass. While fareal, in my opinion, more like monk v1. Both has warm sign. But i think seahf more powerfull and bettet impact. But sometimes could make the treble a little bit dull. Fareal more balance




thanks for input. will try to find seahf a bit more 



golov17 said:


> I not know about Faaeal 300 sound sig.




no worries mate 



mochill said:


> best bass on an earbud i heard so far




thanks. just looked it up and seeems a bit out of my price range 



ryanjsoo said:


> You can get decent sub-bass on most solid earbuds, it`s just that it often comes with compromises in the other frequencies. It`s fiddly to find the right covers on earbuds but I find the Hiegi foams to give a better sub-bass response without too much midrange impact. They`re a little larger in diameter than most foams and thus seal a little better, but also have larger openings to avoid darkening the sound, pretty good buy.




good info. will look into these foams too. 

thanks guys, you've all been very helpful


----------



## vapman

nihontoman said:


> thanks for input. will try to find seahf a bit more
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 For the record, while the seahf still has a great overall sound and very fun to listen to (i happily used it for many hours every day),
 the mids and vocals will sound just a bit veiled coming from other headphones
 eventually you get used to it after a song or 2 and don't hear it anymore.
 Otherwise they are very balanced.
 but they will never match the VE lineup in mids or overall clarity.


----------



## golov17

Edimun v.2 really cool earbuds with VE foams


----------



## vapman

Ugh KKG  you are killing me! you are so much closer to indonesia than USA but EMS shipping for both of us so mine should be here in a few days.
  
  so excited!!!
  
 Hopefully h180 shows up soon as i can compare stock to edimun v2...


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Ugh KKG  you are killing me! you are so much closer to indonesia than USA but EMS shipping for both of us so mine should be here in a few days.
> 
> so excited!!!
> 
> Hopefully h180 shows up soon as i can compare stock to edimun v2...


 not audiophile buds, but absolutely well for music lovers! 
(9 days from Indonesia to Russia as well  )


----------



## luedriver

golov17 said:


> not audiophile buds, but absolutely well for music lovers!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 is this were you bought them from?
  
 https://www.bukalapak.com/p/elektronik/headphone/16t0f0-jual-edifier-h180-hi-mod-carbon-rhodium
  
 scratch that, just figured its a indian site not indonesian
  
 where did you buy them again?


----------



## golov17

luedriver said:


> where did you buy them again?


http://www.head-fi.org/u/394362/irgunawan
PM him


----------



## fairx

I just put monk plus donut foam on my hawk and boom! Subbass!! And slight V sound that reduces the forward mid. 

But then I had different idea. Unscrew the metal strain releave to open more space but suddenly it sounded boomy. So I change back to monk porous foam but keep the strain unscrewed. Hmm suddenly I'm back to original crisp sound and more spacious sounds. I'm still not sure at what expense. Maybe less bass speed? But I can sure that it's more spacious now. 

I'm gonna keep this configuration for a while. 

BTW I also found out Future World Music sound unbelively awesome with hawk. That depth! And like listening to speakers!!


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Edimun vs. Edifier H180 stock earbuds. Anyone want to explain?


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> Edimun vs. Edifier H180 stock earbuds. Anyone want to explain?


----------



## rggz

Cool news: Blox's will bring a new model in this year around September or October
 Bad news: It's won't sound like the TM7
  


> Dear Sir,
> New models have been under development and 1 new model will be released
> this year,could be around september or october,well a new model will not
> sound similar to the TM.7 since no any same part to be shared.
> ...


----------



## kvad

New one over at HCK on Ali.
  

  
 Anyone heard of them? Called _Moondrop VX_.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

kvad said:


> New one over at HCK on Ali.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone heard of them? Called _Moondrop VX_.


 
 Its the M1N VX


----------



## kvad

audionewbi3 said:


> Its the M1N VX


 
  
 Thanks - then I was able to track down you and ClieOS conversation a few pages back. Sounds decent, but probably give them a pass.


----------



## kurtextrem

rggz said:


> Cool news: Blox's will bring a new model in this year around September or October
> Bad news: It's won't sound like the TM7


 
 Hype anyway!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

kvad said:


> Thanks - then I was able to track down you and ClieOS conversation a few pages back. Sounds decent, but probably give them a pass.


 
 no problem mate!


----------



## ZerkMeister

kvad said:


> New one over at HCK on Ali.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Link Please!


----------



## kvad

You might have to copy+paste the link.
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-New-Moondrop-VX-In-Ear-Earphone-HIFI-Fever-DIY-Flat-Head-Earphone-Equalization-Hifi-Flat/1825606_32686486524.html


----------



## MRK1

Hi, I've auditioned a few headphones and earbuds and I still think my favourite sounding of them all is the Monk. I think it has the perfect sound for my ears. I have finally decided that my favourite sound signature is slightly v shaped with deep bass but not overpowering, forward mids and highs. I like the highs very detailed and kinda sparkly. The monk becomes nearly perfect for me using an EQ setting with a small bass boost, then everything flat, and a medium boost in the high area. The only thing I think lacks in the monk is the soundstage. Hopefully this is a clear enough explanation.
  
 I don't like flat response headphones because 90% of the music I listen to is not realistic to begin with so I like it more with a bit of coloration to bring it closer to my ideal signature. For example, the HD598 to me really lacked in bass and forwardness, to the point I sent it back because it was completely unlikeable to me. I also bought the Sennheiser Momentum In Ear and other than the non-existant comfort (my ears just refuse to accept iems) the sound was absurdly bassy and I could not like them.
  
 That being said, what could be the best earbud with this kind of signature I can get to improve on the monk? I think that if I can get an earbud with this kind of signature I would already reach my endgame. Earbuds are supremely comfy for my ears, I just can't even feel them and can keep them in literally for hours, even 4+ hours. By the way, when I first bought the Monk, I had an auditory epiphany, I could not believe my ears, they sounded perfect compared to my older ones (MX580 & E100). The E100 also had a good sound but they were very uncomfortable.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

mrk1 said:


> Hi, I've auditioned a few headphones and earbuds and I still think my favourite sounding of them all is the Monk. I think it has the perfect sound for my ears. I have finally decided that my favourite sound signature is slightly v shaped with deep bass but not overpowering, forward mids and highs. I like the highs very detailed and kinda sparkly. The monk becomes nearly perfect for me using an EQ setting with a small bass boost, then everything flat, and a medium boost in the high area. The only thing I think lacks in the monk is the soundstage. Hopefully this is a clear enough explanation.
> 
> I don't like flat response headphones because 90% of the music I listen to is not realistic to begin with so I like it more with a bit of coloration to bring it closer to my ideal signature. For example, the HD598 to me really lacked in bass and forwardness, to the point I sent it back because it was completely unlikeable to me. I also bought the Sennheiser Momentum In Ear and other than the non-existant comfort (my ears just refuse to accept iems) the sound was absurdly bassy and I could not like them.
> 
> That being said, what could be the best earbud with this kind of signature I can get to improve on the monk? I think that if I can get an earbud with this kind of signature I would already reach my endgame. Earbuds are supremely comfy for my ears, I just can't even feel them and can keep them in literally for hours, even 4+ hours. By the way, when I first bought the Monk, I had an auditory epiphany, I could not believe my ears, they sounded perfect compared to my older ones (MX580 & E100). The E100 also had a good sound but they were very uncomfortable.




I heard Shozy Cygnus sounds like this


----------



## vapman

the question of people who want a monk with a mic come up fairly often.... just get the $5 Remax 303.
 its not as good as the monk, but is similar sound signature, same price, and comes with a mic and remote 
 enjoyed it just fine on a 5 mile ride just now.


----------



## ZerkMeister

Just got the SeaHF 3.0 150ohms. 
These sound great. Good bass on these i feel.
Would recommend.
You can go for either these, Shozy Cygnus or the VE Zen


----------



## vapman

zerkmeister said:


> Just got the SeaHF 3.0 150ohms.
> These sound great. Good bass on these i feel.
> Would recommend.
> You can go for either these, Shozy Cygnus or the VE Zen


 

 oooh. mine should be here tomorrow then?
 my new batch of monks are here today


----------



## mochill

You got the balanced monk??


----------



## Muniek66

Hi guys!
  
 I had the opportunity to long listening MrZ Tomahawk, previously I used Awei ES10.
  
 The difference in size of soundstage, details, depth, dynamics, explicitness is significant, but for me it is a little lack of bass, and the top is a little too rough, sharp. 
  
 Can you recommend a earbuds that would have these advantages of Tomahawks, but a little more bass (however not spilled on other band frequencies) and the more mild top? Budget: up to 80$. I've read that possible alternatives are: Shozy Cygnus, SeaHf/Fareal 400ohm, Edimun. Unfortunately, VE Zen 2.0 is over budget.
  
 Source is Dragonfly Black.
  
 I think also about something cheaper, what possibly could, from time to time, replace Tomahawks (when they become tiring because of its analyticity), if I don't find satisfactory alternative and decide not to sell their. Maybe VE Monk (not plus) or Mrice E100 or Edifier H180 or Blue Ever Blue 328RM are good for this purpose?
  
 Thanks for possible suggestions.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I have Edifier H180 and absolutely love them. Word of caution on ordering Baldoor E100's. They may be defective or not perfect sound.


----------



## fairx

Tomahawk unscrew = veiled. Not good.


----------



## fairx

muniek66 said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> I had the opportunity to long listening MrZ Tomahawk, previously I used Awei ES10.
> 
> ...


 
 Can't agree on rough sharp top on tomahawk. unless you're using no foam at all. what foam you're using
  
 Original foam smooth the treble enough for me. Monk+ foam have slight edge in clarity but still not rough.donuts foam give more bass with slight V sound but missing textured a bit (enough to notice if carefully listen). I agree the tomahawk high are bit grainy (on some song only) but not harsh except maybe from poor source.


----------



## vapman

fairx said:


> Can't agree on rough sharp top on tomahawk. unless you're using no foam at all. what foam you're using
> 
> Original foam smooth the treble enough for me. Monk+ foam have slight edge in clarity but still not rough.donuts foam give more bass with slight V sound but missing textured a bit (enough to notice if carefully listen). I agree the tomahawk high are bit grainy (on some song only) but not harsh except maybe from poor source.


 

 in my experience it was more sparkly than sharp but had hints on sibilance.
 then again this was months ago and i gave it maybe 20 minutes total


----------



## MRK1

tayyab pirzada said:


> I have Edifier H180 and absolutely love them. Word of caution on ordering Baldoor E100's. They may be defective or not perfect sound.


 

 Is there any easy way to tell if the E100 is the "good" batch or not? Mine were ordered from Amazon Italy a year or so ago, they were sold as Mrice E100 but the earbuds have the Baldoor name on the plug.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

There's actually no way. It's luck of the lottery. But I hear you are in better chances by getting the Mrice brand. Even so, I ordered 2 Mrice's and both were defective. Oh well...


----------



## Makahl

After wondering about Shozy Cygnus or Zen 2 I've ended bought the Cygnus + Hiegi's donut foams and I received it yesterday.
  
 My first impressions: Wow! Cygnus' sounds very good, I'm used to IEMs and the airy and open sensation worth every penny over the claustrophobic signature of my old iems although I didn't like the Hiegi's foams w/ Cygnus the diameter is bigger than normal donuts and may it sound too bright for my taste because can't "damping" the front of the earbud properly but with the normal foam sounds amazing.


----------



## yacobx

makahl said:


> After wondering about Shozy Cygnus or Zen 2 I've ended bought the Cygnus + Hiegi's donut foams and I received it yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> My first impressions: Wow! Cygnus' sounds very good, I'm used to IEMs and the airy and open sensation worth every penny over the claustrophobic signature of my old iems although I didn't like the Hiegi's foams w/ Cygnus the diameter is bigger than normal donuts and may it sound too bright for my taste because can't "damping" the front of the earbud properly but with the normal foam sounds amazing.




The hiegi donuts a good but the full hiegi foam is great for the Cygnus. I'm listening to it on my hifime 9018 DAC and its soo good


----------



## ozkan

mrk1 said:


> Hi, I've auditioned a few headphones and earbuds and I still think my favourite sounding of them all is the Monk. I think it has the perfect sound for my ears. I have finally decided that my favourite sound signature is slightly v shaped with deep bass but not overpowering, forward mids and highs. I like the highs very detailed and kinda sparkly. The monk becomes nearly perfect for me using an EQ setting with a small bass boost, then everything flat, and a medium boost in the high area. The only thing I think lacks in the monk is the soundstage. Hopefully this is a clear enough explanation.
> 
> I don't like flat response headphones because 90% of the music I listen to is not realistic to begin with so I like it more with a bit of coloration to bring it closer to my ideal signature. For example, the HD598 to me really lacked in bass and forwardness, to the point I sent it back because it was completely unlikeable to me. I also bought the Sennheiser Momentum In Ear and other than the non-existant comfort (my ears just refuse to accept iems) the sound was absurdly bassy and I could not like them.
> 
> That being said, what could be the best earbud with this kind of signature I can get to improve on the monk? I think that if I can get an earbud with this kind of signature I would already reach my endgame. Earbuds are supremely comfy for my ears, I just can't even feel them and can keep them in literally for hours, even 4+ hours. By the way, when I first bought the Monk, I had an auditory epiphany, I could not believe my ears, they sounded perfect compared to my older ones (MX580 & E100). The E100 also had a good sound but they were very uncomfortable.




Balanced Monk plus?


----------



## ZerkMeister

What would be the best earbud for ambient music/sounds?
 Besides Shozy Cygnus or is there nothing?


----------



## golov17

zerkmeister said:


> What would be the best earbud for ambient music/sounds?
> Besides Shozy Cygnus or is there nothing?


Seahf LD3.0 400 Ohm, IMHO
Atmospheric, delicate, like it


----------



## froxmor

I was always curious why the E100's are seen as good earbuds, to me they seemed to always be inferior.
 http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php
 The low frequency sounds always caused rattling.


----------



## golov17

froxmor said:


> I was always curious why the E100's are seen as good earbuds, to me they seemed to always be inferior.
> http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php
> The low frequency sounds always caused rattling.


not with my pair Mrice e100, really good


----------



## froxmor

golov17 said:


> not with my pair Mrice e100, really good


 
 Can you confirm that your E100 does not rattle with the "Bass Shaker"? If so, could you tell me where you bought them? Because mine would then most certainly be fake and I got from AE.


----------



## golov17

success of test with my Meizu mx2, 
http://s.aliexpress.com/MJbYjuqy
without mic


----------



## rggz

froxmor said:


> I was always curious why the E100's are seen as good earbuds, to me they seemed to always be inferior.
> http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php
> The low frequency sounds always caused rattling.


 
  
 IMO Mrice E100's is a problematic earbud nowadays with a poor quality control, so it's hard to create an agreement about them, just in this thread you'll read night/day opinions. I could be very happy if they sounded the same like my first pair because the signature was so coherent and the best cymbals, hi-hat resolution I've heard in an earbud, now my last E100's is just dull.
  
 There are a lot of different batches on the market, so is really difficult to recommend them (even ClieOS removed the E100 from his rank), the only way to fix that was Mrice's creating a new model and improving their QC, but for I've read that is won't happen for now. Hopefully, Cygnus sounds really good and though I miss the extension superb of E100's on treble the others areas is really good too.


----------



## MRK1

froxmor said:


> Can you confirm that your E100 does not rattle with the "Bass Shaker"? If so, could you tell me where you bought them? Because mine would then most certainly be fake and I got from AE.


 

 Not him but my E100 doesn't rattle with the Bass Shaker from AudioTest, even at higher volumes through the FiiO E07K with bass boosted to level 2.


----------



## froxmor

golov17 said:


> success of test with my Meizu mx2,
> http://s.aliexpress.com/MJbYjuqy
> without mic


 
 Thanks I will give it a try, mine say Mrice on the connector and the sound is most certainly not impressive, and the bass on that site causes very definitive rattle at almost any volume.


----------



## nihontoman

sooo, after getting you guys' recommendations on earbuds with decent sub-base I went and (what a surprise) didn't get ANY of the recommended buds   I was gonna get the seahf 400 ohm, but my phone died on me yesterday and the hefty 70-ish bucks became even heftier for an earbud. BUT, I got two earbuds:

 First - new faaeal 64ohm (the trancluscent one from easy earphones on aliexpress (this based purely on gut feeling (yes, I know...  ).
  
 Second - TY Hi-Z - this one based on a review of a guy named clearhead or something along the lines, who said that sub-base was pretty good and seemed to be pleased with sound signature 
  
  
 hope these arrive soon and will do a impressions / review kinda thingy. will compare the sub-base with sony XB90EX iems. hope at least one of them blows me away with sound quality


----------



## Demun

please be patient waiting for him


----------



## yacobx

nihontoman said:


> sooo, after getting you guys' recommendations on earbuds with decent sub-base I went and (what a surprise) didn't get ANY of the recommended buds   I was gonna get the seahf 400 ohm, but my phone died on me yesterday and the hefty 70-ish bucks became even heftier for an earbud. BUT, I got two earbuds:
> 
> 
> First - new faaeal 64ohm (the trancluscent one from easy earphones on aliexpress (this based purely on gut feeling (yes, I know...  ).
> ...





I have xb90, I don't think it's possible to get near that level of bass on earbud. Every time I listen to the 90's it messes up my preception of bass making everything else sound anemic. Lol.


----------



## nihontoman

yacobx said:


> I have xb90, I don't think it's possible to get near that level of bass on earbud. Every time I listen to the 90's it messes up my preception of bass making everything else sound anemic. Lol.


 
 Yeah, I don't have any illusions ANY earbud could come close to the sub-base levels of XB90EX, as, none of my other gear comes close to it, including fully sealed dynamic iems, but still. if I am able to hear some sub-base, it will be satisfactory


----------



## vapman

Closest earbud bass I've heard is seahf 400. If any earbuds are bassier, let me know...

Argh... FAAEAL should be here any day!!


----------



## mochill

Also try ty hi-z hp400


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Closest earbud bass I've heard is seahf 400. If any earbuds are bassier, let me know...
> 
> Argh... FAAEAL should be here any day!!


Edimun?


----------



## Saoshyant

Yep, the Wreck of the Edimun Fitzgerald


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> Edimun?


 

 still waiting


----------



## golov17

Also with bass Seahf LD3.0 150 Ohm


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> still waiting


 http://www.gsconto.com/ru/tracker/index


----------



## nihontoman

So, the Seahf Ld3.0 150ohm also has base? Hmmm, maybe I should've gotten that instead of the faaeal?  but the clear shells on faaeal are ao pretty, I couldn't resist


----------



## artpiggo

Could anybody compare between Seahf 400 ohm and TY Hi-Z 400 ohm please.
  
 I just order TY Hi-Z; however, not sure whether Seahf sound better/differently or not.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

artpiggo said:


> Could anybody compare between Seahf 400 ohm and TY Hi-Z 400 ohm please.
> 
> I just order TY Hi-Z; however, not sure whether Seahf sound better/differently or not.


 
 Different tuning, but I think @ClieOS tested them before. Not much diff


----------



## golov17

artpiggo said:


> Could anybody compare between Seahf 400 ohm and TY Hi-Z 400 ohm please.
> 
> I just order TY Hi-Z; however, not sure whether Seahf sound better/differently or not.


 http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up-update-april-17th-2016/4800#post_12601268


----------



## ryanjsoo

Anyone know a good aftermarket carry case for the Cygnus? The stock case is too large for me.


----------



## golov17

ryanjsoo said:


> Anyone know a good aftermarket carry case for the Cygnus? The stock case is too large for me.


 KZ? 

KZ High End Earphone Accessories Earphone Case Bag Headphones Portable Storage Case Bag Box Headphone Accessories Free Shipping
 http://s.aliexpress.com/7vEFvUvM 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## rggz

ryanjsoo said:


> Anyone know a good aftermarket carry case for the Cygnus? The stock case is too large for me.


 

 Well, you can find good cases on Penon store or use Altoids aluminum case it is very useful, but the Audio-Technica case is my favorite and you can find here the only problem is the shipping.


----------



## Joy Boy

Fareal 64ohm with transparent housing. Good bud. Heavy bass with good control. Thick-laidback vocal. But narrow soundstage and not-too-good separation.
But for its price, still good performance.
But please dont expect too superior


----------



## BloodyPenguin

joy boy said:


> Fareal 64ohm with transparent housing. Good bud. Heavy bass with good control. Thick-laidback vocal. But narrow soundstage and not-too-good separation.
> But for its price, still good performance.
> But please dont expect too superior


 
  
 Thank you for the heads up, I think I will skip this one.  
  
 --


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Something new poped up in Taobao
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.213.BcmxEN&id=534019877589&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail
  
 EDIT: Listening to my SEAHF V1 tonight...........man oh man, after listening almost exclusively to the Mojitos, the buttery smooth v1's present vocal jazz oh soooo bloody well.
 Maybe I should get a 400Ohm to round up the collection


----------



## Joy Boy

bloodypenguin said:


> Thank you for the heads up, I think I will skip this one.
> 
> --



Yup. I think ve monk could kill it on it's price. Youre welcome mate


----------



## Saoshyant

I don't know why I waited this long to try this pairing, but it's good.  If Mojito + Kogan works quite well.  For those that weren't lucky enough to get their hands on one, the Kogan's main appeal was that it was a rather inexpensive DAP (around $25 if I remember correctly) that has a surprisingly detail focused sound for it's price.  My personal favorite pairing was the Kogan with the Ety HF5 for some really detailed listening, at least in respect to price vs performance.  Since they've become quite scarce, many people have since looked for the Kogan successor.  For example, the Kogan & Mojito does a respectable job keeping up with Rachmaninoff's 2nd Piano Concerto, one of the fastest piano pieces that comes to memory.  It's a shame the dap is no longer in production, as mine is becoming growingly temperamental.  I shall enjoy it while it lasts and be sad once it finally dies.  That is unless I can find a suitable replacement and let it rest.


----------



## ngoshawk

saoshyant said:


> Yep, the Wreck of the Edimun Fitzgerald




Lol, I'll be there in 2+ weeks...cool weather! And I may have to try a pair of the Edimun's...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Those interested in a new earbud (which I personally have not heard).
  
 Check out the VERY limited QFred by *Cypherus Audio X:  **$200 USD (excluding shipping)**.


Photos from their Facebook Page:  *
  

  

  

  
  
  
  
 ==


----------



## rggz

$200! I'll pass : P


----------



## vapman

rggz said:


> $200! I'll pass : P


 

 If they're as good as mojito they'd be worth $200. If they ain't at least better than the Zen 2 forget it!
  
 Did anyone ever find out what NOS driver the mojito used? i had no idea it was NOS. thought it was a rose production. still love the Mojito even if i haven't had mine in months.
  


saoshyant said:


> I don't know why I waited this long to try this pairing, but it's good.  If Mojito + Kogan works quite well.  For those that weren't lucky enough to get their hands on one, the Kogan's main appeal was that it was a rather inexpensive DAP (around $25 if I remember correctly) that has a surprisingly detail focused sound for it's price.  My personal favorite pairing was the Kogan with the Ety HF5 for some really detailed listening, at least in respect to price vs performance.  Since they've become quite scarce, many people have since looked for the Kogan successor.  For example, the Kogan & Mojito does a respectable job keeping up with Rachmaninoff's 2nd Piano Concerto, one of the fastest piano pieces that comes to memory.  It's a shame the dap is no longer in production, as mine is becoming growingly temperamental.  I shall enjoy it while it lasts and be sad once it finally dies.  That is unless I can find a suitable replacement and let it rest.


 
  
  
 this always seems to happen with the best DAPs, any word on what chip set it might be using?


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> Closest earbud bass I've heard is seahf 400. If any earbuds are bassier, let me know...


 
  
 I would consider DUNU Alpha 1 as bassier.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Anyone interested:  *Bang & Olufsen A8* for *$75 *(Free Shipping) at Amazon:  
  

  


 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001U7W8O8
  
 --


----------



## vapman

My edimun just arrived!!!
Impressions soon.
PS , I bought a bMac amp too


----------



## damex

i'v been sitting whole day in dt770 600ohm+nw-zx2+aune b1 and switched in the middle of the night to ve monk plus... such earbuds (sounds much worse with foam. much cleaner without foamy covers). i used low gain and class A mode for aune b1...
  
 what could you say about ve zen2 vs yuin pk1 for my nw-zx2+aune b1?
 not ready to get both yet


----------



## vapman

Woah!!!
I got the limited red edition of edimun 

Will post thoughts in a couple hours


----------



## nihontoman

joy boy said:


> Fareal 64ohm with transparent housing. Good bud. Heavy bass with good control. Thick-laidback vocal. But narrow soundstage and not-too-good separation.
> But for its price, still good performance.
> But please dont expect too superior


 
 Nice to hear it has good heavy bass with good control AND thick vocals. but pretty strange about the soundstage and separation - https://twitter.com/hulang9078/status/743466045831184384
  
 this tweet suggests the opposite  
  
  
 also, did that came in that round packaging?


----------



## vapman

The edimun is really screw*** good, guys. I think it stacks up against the Zen 2.0. I think it beats the Cygnus.
  
 If you are just looking for sub-bass, Seahf 400 is easier to get & cheaper...  but these ROCK!!! these are seriously good, and a whole different game than the Edifier H180.... you would barely know they were the same at the core from the sound.
  
 The sub bass is top 3 for sure as far as earbuds go here. Everything else is pretty much as good as the Zen 2. The sound signature, stage and imaging is different than the Zen of course, but damn, I really, really like these!
  
 The cable alone is truly amazing and one of, if not the most impressive headphone cable I've expreienced.
  
 I can't wait to try their bMac amp after I let it charge for a while.
  
 Shouts out again to @Joy Boy who introduced Head-Fi to De'mun. It's 100% your fault I ended up buying these Joy Boy... and I don' regret it one bit 
  
  
*Edit from the future: I'm talking about the Red De'Mun here and all my future posts I refer to the "edimun" up until the Edimun V3 is delivered, so if I say Edimun i meant Red De'Mun (still waiting as of the edit)*


----------



## Fabi

vapman said:


> The edimun is really screw*** good, guys. I think it stacks up against the Zen 2.0. I think it beats the Cygnus.
> 
> If you are just looking for sub-bass, Seahf 400 is easier to get & cheaper...  but these ROCK!!! these are seriously good, and a whole different game than the Edifier H180.... you would barely know they were the same at the core from the sound.
> 
> ...


 
 Oh man!
 I have been chatting with Iriyan since last week and right now I am very close to push the order button for the same pack as yours.
 I feel it would sound very good but I need some sound impressions on the amp and earbuds to convince my wallet for good


----------



## vapman

fabi said:


> Oh man!
> I have been chatting with Iriyan since last week and right now I am very close to push the order button for the same pack as yours.
> I feel it would sound very good but I need some sound impressions on the amp and earbuds to convince my wallet for good


 

 You should do it.
  
 I haven't tried the ipod line out cable yet, I will do that later, and I haven't tried the amp yet as I want to give it at least 8 hours charge before initial use for best battery conditioning...
  
 But I can assure you the sound quality is Zen 2 level good...
  
 Also Iriyan is an awesome guy.


----------



## nihontoman

how much do these edimuns go for? seems interesting


----------



## vapman

nihontoman said:


> how much do these edimuns go for? seems interesting






EMS shipping only for us westerners IIRC


----------



## nihontoman

vapman said:


> EMS shipping only for us westerners IIRC


 
  
  
 thanks. pretty good price, for what they are - earbuds with sexiest cables I've ever seen and apparently they sound good too!


----------



## irgunawan

vapman said:


> The edimun is really screw*** good, guys. I think it stacks up against the Zen 2.0. I think it beats the Cygnus.
> 
> If you are just looking for sub-bass, Seahf 400 is easier to get & cheaper...  but these ROCK!!! these are seriously good, and a whole different game than the Edifier H180.... you would barely know they were the same at the core from the sound.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks to @vapman, hope you enjoy its.

  
 And i'am sorry for the little bonus, hope you happy to using it.


----------



## vapman

irgunawan said:


> Thanks to @vapman, hope you enjoy its.
> 
> And i'am sorry for the little bonus, hope you happy to using it.


 
  
 I am updating my iPod right now to use it! Thank you again @irgunawan




 I recommend the RED DEMON or Edimun easily... my new favorite earbud.
 Later tonight when  I have time I will use the LOD into the bMac amp


----------



## ZerkMeister

vapman said:


> EMS shipping only for us westerners IIRC



Good price for the earbuds but $30 shipping sounds a bit insane if we consider normal shipping costs.
No hate just shocked.


----------



## vapman

zerkmeister said:


> Good price for the earbuds but $30 shipping sounds a bit insane if we consider normal shipping costs.
> No hate just shocked.


 
 To be honest I thought it was a little high too, but the customs form has a copy of the receipt on it. I paid barely more than they actually spent to ship it out there. *(edit: don't forget i bought a bmac amp from too so that added a lot to the weight)*
  
 It's less than a $5 difference. When you take the packaging into account I don't think they're making too much off shipping.
  
 Of course if they offered a cheaper/slower shipping service that would be nice, but considering how much I've spent on earbuds lately, even when you take that $30 for shipping into consideration I still consider it to be a much better product than the Cygnus which costs about the same shipped from China via ePacket.
  
 Sorry, Cygnus... Cygnus does have that nice fit though.


----------



## irgunawan

zerkmeister said:


> Good price for the earbuds but $30 shipping sounds a bit insane if we consider normal shipping costs.
> No hate just shocked.


 
 Yap i know, thats why I just ask $10 to $15 for world-wide shipping cost, considering this product still unknown yet for head-fi members, even the shipping-cost more than $15, i will pay the rests, because will be my pleasure to helping this group member to get Edimun for first time in their country.


----------



## vapman

The Edimun v2 I got sounds so much like the Sony MDR-CD900ST it's crazy. That means imaging, stage, natural sound and balance are PERFECT. Its closest earbud is definitely the Zen 2. They really go head to head on... well, pretty much everything.
  
 I love these earbuds. It's always a gamble buying something nobody else knows yet, but I won big time on these.
  
 For $55 before shipping there is no competition. NONE. The closest I can think of in sound quality is the SeaHf which I believe starts at $70 and is still inferior to the Edimun. And the SeaHf is utter crap at vocals and mids in comparison to the Edimun.
  
 I have been listening nonstop for about 6 hours and they are clear and true winners. At some point I switched to the monk+ foams and now I'm using rubber rings by themselves, like I did with the Zen. I think this is how I like to use Edimun most.
  
 Oh yeah and the cable kicks ass. In the past I've paid more than I spent on the Edimun on just cables and haven't been as impressed! As far as I am concerned, Bengkel / De'mun has set a new standard in terms of what I will expect from earbuds AND cables.
  
 I'll post about the bMac amp in the other thread, but if anyone has questions for me, i'm game to answer them.


----------



## kvad

vapman said:


> The sub bass is top 3 for sure as far as earbuds go here. Everything else is pretty much as good as the Zen 2. The sound signature, stage and imaging is different than the Zen of course, but damn, I really, really like these!


 
  
 Oh man, like I need another earbud?!? They do sound very tempting though : )
 How would you describe the sound signature compared to the Zen?


----------



## vapman

kvad said:


> Oh man, like I need another earbud?!? They do sound very tempting though : )
> How would you describe the sound signature compared to the Zen?


 

 I did so much Zen vs Edimun A/B and I heard so little difference.
  
 The mids on the Zen 2 are more forward.
 The bass is ever so slightly fuller on the Edimun.
 The treble is pretty much the same.
  
 I think Zen 2 has a slight bias for mids/vocals whereas Edimun is more balanced/neutral across the spectrum. They really have a good and natural sound. I don't want to take them out. I've been doing a lot of dancing with them in. The sound signature is really not that far off from the Zen, I think it's really really similar but I'm going to say Edimun is both a bit more balanced and has better bass.
  
 Maybe golov has not been posting because he's too busy jamming out with Edimun?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

How's the soundstage? How does it compare to Rose Mojito?


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> How's the soundstage? How does it compare to Rose Mojito?


 

 Nothing will compare to Mojito's soundstage, but it's at least as good as Zen's. Not like a whole new level above the Zen but at least on par with it.
  
 Mojito is STAX earspeakers level of detail & soundstage.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> I think it beats the Cygnus.


agree


----------



## irgunawan

ngoshawk said:


> Lol, I'll be there in 2+ weeks...cool weather! And I may have to try a pair of the Edimun's...


 
 Tell me if you was here, by my self, i will give you a change to try its and die..


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> agree


 

 The jury's out on this one, folks.
  
 Me and King Golov both say it's better than the Cygnus.
  
 Get ordering, y'all!
  
 Killer work @irgunawan !!


----------



## golov17

a little upset that the cable is very hard and tries to pull Edimun of my ears when walking, lol


----------



## kvad

vapman said:


> I did so much Zen vs Edimun A/B and I heard so little difference.
> 
> The mids on the Zen 2 are more forward.
> The bass is ever so slightly fuller on the Edimun.
> ...


 
  
 Sounds like a fantastic deal if one doesn't have the Zen, and even then their looks make them close to irresistible.
 Thanks for the comparison!


----------



## vapman

kvad said:


> Sounds like a fantastic deal if one doesn't have the Zen, and even then their looks make them close to irresistible.
> Thanks for the comparison!


 

 All I'm saying is I am thinking about selling my Zens and getting a backup or two of these.


----------



## rggz

Wow, if it is better than Cygnus certainly is a superb earbud I just love it with prog-metal, but the Edimun for I've read was developing a V3 model, is that your version @vapman?


----------



## konstantanol

I own irgun's edimun v1, it's a great sounding earbuds. I dont have much earbuds to compare to, since i'm more into iems. 

But one thing for sure, edimun v1 have made me put my ue tf-10 & aurisonics rockets back to their cases


----------



## elmoel

wow there will be edimun v3? 


rggz said:


> Wow, if it is better than Cygnus certainly is a superb earbud I just love it with prog-metal, but the Edimun for I've read was developing a V3 model, is that your version @vapman?


----------



## rggz

elmoel said:


> wow there will be edimun v3?


 

 Probably according to those posts: here and here


----------



## vapman

rggz said:


> Wow, if it is better than Cygnus certainly is a superb earbud I just love it with prog-metal, but the Edimun for I've read was developing a V3 model, is that your version @vapman?


 
  
 I have a V2 i think? I don't know for sure. The red is just a limited run of them. no mention of version I didn't ask for it, I just happened to get it and was happy when I did 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 If the V3 is in the works and I have a v2, then I'll just buy that too when it comes out without hesitation. I don't know anything about a V3 though.
  
 I also bought myself a H180 (what the RED DEMON is based on) so I could try and recable it with some heavy pro audio cable and that should be... interesting.
  
 I took a pretty huge gamble buying these but I am so happy I did. I don't know what kind of De'mun magic they used but these earbuds sound screwing amazing and I have 0 question they are, in fact, what's up. I've been listening for nearly 9 hours and can't get enough of them.
  
 They sit between Zen and Mojito and belong with the champions IMO.


----------



## Joy Boy

nihontoman said:


> Nice to hear it has good heavy bass with good control AND thick vocals. but pretty stkie about the soundstage and separation - https://twitter.com/hulang9078/status/743466045831184384
> 
> this tweet suggests the opposite
> 
> ...



Consider this 2 things:
1. That's review from seller. Some kind of promotion. Take it with a grain of salt 
2. I write that quick impression without burning in the bud before. May be it has some good potensial after burn. Again, take it with a grain of salt


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> a little upset that the cable is very hard and tries to pull Edimun of my ears when walking, lol


 

 I bent them for a little like memory wire and now they sit perfect always.... but sometimes one falls out still


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> I bent them for a little like memory wire and now they sit perfect always.... but sometimes one falls out still


.... but sounds good


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> The edimun is really screw*** good, guys. I think it stacks up against the Zen 2.0. I think it beats the Cygnus.
> 
> If you are just looking for sub-bass, Seahf 400 is easier to get & cheaper...  but these ROCK!!! these are seriously good, and a whole different game than the Edifier H180.... you would barely know they were the same at the core from the sound.
> 
> ...




Great man! I'm so happy so like it. Like i said before, i always standing on my Top bud. I already tried v1 and v2, and soon there'll be v3. 
The bass is outstanding and super 3D imaging.
Hope you'll enjoy it. I use it as daily bud now because its low impedance make it easier to drive without amp.

Congrats! 

*dan sukses buat bmac & om irgunawan


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> .... but sounds good


 

 try bending the wire a tiny bit and use monk+ donut foam on top of rubber rings. they never fall out now. even been dancing with them in! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 There's no question this is my new daily bud.
 And that I will buy v3 when it comes out!


----------



## froxmor

How reliable is the AE Cygnus seller (the one with the 26 orders)?


----------



## jrazmar

where and how can we buy this Edimun thing? AE link please?


----------



## vapman

jrazmar said:


> where and how can we buy this Edimun thing? AE link please?


 

 not on AE
  
 they are built to order
  
 http://www.bengkelmacro.com/
  
 you can find the Edimun page there and contact them to order, i contacted by  email


----------



## jrazmar

ok thanks vapman. saying you'll sell the Zens for this is really something. if this has a low impedance and it sounds as good as the Zen 2.0, why can't VE make a low impedance version of the Zens making it more versatile and not needing an amp to magically shine? anyway, still waiting for the balanced to SE adapter for my Cygnus. Easy Earphones sent me the balanced version instead of single-ended.


----------



## Anita Tang

wow, it's amazing!!!
 u r really a hifi-man!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Listening to _*Rüfüs du Sol - Bloom*_ (album) with the *NoSounD Recessed *and really enjoying the quite large soundstage.  
  

  
 --


----------



## ld100

irgunawan said:


> Thanks to @vapman, hope you enjoy its.
> 
> 
> And i'am sorry for the little bonus, hope you happy to using it.


 
  
 Are these easy to drive? iPhone can do it? Worth getting?


----------



## Saoshyant

Did the Edimun come with the iPod LOD, or was that a separate order? Probably about to mod an iPod Video and a new LOD would be nice


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Does anyone know how to keep full foams on? Mine keep falling off...I've ordered Heigi though.


----------



## ozkan

tayyab pirzada said:


> Does anyone know how to keep full foams on? Mine keep falling off...I've ordered Heigi though.




Glue them.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

lol i dont know if thats such a good idea...


----------



## Joy Boy

ld100 said:


> Are these easy to drive? iPhone can do it? Worth getting?



Very easy. Impedance 32ohm, ordinary smartphone can drive it easily


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> Did the Edimun come with the iPod LOD, or was that a separate order? Probably about to mod an iPod Video and a new LOD would be nice


 

 separate item
 i specifically requested it be included with my order
 it is the best LOD i have ever seen.... not that i have seen many, just that one fiio one.
  
 by the way- red demon and edimun are different things. i have red demon. golov has edimun.
  


ld100 said:


> Are these easy to drive? iPhone can do it? Worth getting?


 

 definitely easy to drive- even sounds great with my phone, been using it with xduoo x3 and bMac and iDSD micro as well


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> And that I will buy v3 when it comes out!


 
  
 Isn't each next version worse than the previous one in the earbuds world?


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> Isn't each next version worse than the previous one in the earbuds world?


 

 I have no idea why you'd think that?
 Aside from the fact they stated the new version should have better mids  & treble.


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> I have no idea why you'd think that?
> Aside from the fact they stated the new version should have better mids  & treble.


 
  
 Because some of you say Zen 1 / Monk 1 are better than v. 2 or just first batch of E100 was good.


----------



## Joy Boy

tomasz2d said:


> Isn't each next version worse than the previous one in the earbuds world?



Nope. Because they use same driver for each series. It's not a totally new brand, but a modified bud. So every series is an upgrade version with upgrade tuning. I have edimun v1 and v2. V2 much better. And i hope so for the 3rd ver 
We usually talk about old batch better than new batch if it's a totally new product and new driver. But even that theory still not 100% valid, IMO

And btw, sir golov and vapman is totally different edifier mod version. Sir golov has the edimun v2 series and vapman has red-demun series. Different modder, different taste. Even i haven't try the red demon. Damn!
I hope they'll send me red demon demo unit. So curious about it


----------



## vapman

Red Demon is a good demon. That's for sure.


----------



## kurtextrem

What's the Red Demon now? What did I miss? 
  
 And... I've read 3D soundstage again. By any chance, is some other gamer here who can compare the buds during a gaming session?


----------



## vapman

kurtextrem said:


> What's the Red Demon now? What did I miss?
> 
> And... I've read 3D soundstage again. By any chance, is some other gamer here who can compare the buds during a gaming session?


 

 it's like a de'mun edimun but not exactly.
 i cant tell you the diffferences exactly.


----------



## allegrosurf

Let me clarify this, red de'mun is not edimun v2, they are different. It has different tuning, Red de'mun use new de'mun cable, and they are different DIY'er but in same city in indonesia and has it own fanpage on facebook. It call De'mun hi-grade custom cable.


----------



## dearyon

wow, so much praise for Red Edimun. Great to hear that it can go head 2 head with Zen 2.
  


allegrosurf said:


> Let me clarify this, red de'mun is not edimun v2, they are different. It has different tuning, Red de'mun use new de'mun cable, and they are different DIY'er but in same city in indonesia and has it own fanpage on facebook. It call De'mun hi-grade custom cable.


 
 Thanks for the clarification. I'm about to ask it to my senior Joy Boy lol

 Now I'm convinced to buy Edimun,  though still confused on which one I should get...


----------



## golov17

More Edimun


----------



## luedriver

thinking of getting these

  
  
 http://www.usa.philips.com/c-p/SHE3200BK_27/headphones
  
 any one have any experience with them? don't want to buy them blind...
  
 they look like apple earpods or have take inspiration from, which could be a good thing or not...


----------



## kurtextrem

Really nice find, and a quite huge freq response: 8 - 24 000  Hz
 costs 13€ in germany


----------



## Joy Boy

dearyon said:


> wow, so much praise for Red Edimun. Great to hear that it can go head 2 head with Zen 2.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the clarification. I'm about to ask it to my senior Joy Boy lol
> ...



Just send you a private message. May be it can help you find out about edimun and ve zen v1


----------



## Tomasz2D

luedriver said:


> http://www.usa.philips.com/c-p/SHE3200BK_27/headphones


 
  
  
 Nowadays Philips audio department is just one of Gibson brands (yes, that guitar company). So it depends on what factory Gibson orders these.


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman said:


> separate item
> i specifically requested it be included with my order
> it is the best LOD i have ever seen.... not that i have seen many, just that one fiio one.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 So, if I were to want the same package you received, I'd need to ask for a Red Demon and the LOD?  I'll certainly keep that in mind.


----------



## allegrosurf

@Saoshyant

For more detail Just pm me if u want red demun or just go to demun fb page just search "de'mun hi-grade custom cable"


----------



## luedriver

tomasz2d said:


> Nowadays Philips audio department is just one of Gibson brands (yes, that guitar company). So it depends on what factory Gibson orders these.


 
 I only know that philips had Gibson make some fidelio x2's and they came without removable ear pads and some people complained about sound quality
  
 I wonder what this means for the future of philips headphones and fidelio
  
 I had ordered the fidelio s1 and saw on amazon that they are now discontinued or selling till stock is run out, instead all I see is more philips headphones with lights on them iem and over ear, stuff that are made with 13 year olds in mind, kinda disappointing really


----------



## luedriver

kurtextrem said:


> Really nice find, and a quite huge freq response: 8 - 24 000  Hz
> costs 13€ in germany


 
 I would take those numbers with a grain of salt, or a pinch or a teaspoon 
  
 I have headphones that say 12-22 000 Hz yet are more mid centric than anything else


----------



## Tomasz2D

luedriver said:


> I wonder what this means for the future of philips headphones and fidelio


 
  
 Philips and Fidelio were bought about 2 years ago by Gibson so now these are Gibson products. We will see how Gibson will develop these brands. Let's hope it will not be like Aiwa and Sony.
 More here http://www.gibsoninnovations.com/en/our-brands/philips


----------



## Saoshyant

I remember I used to have a lot of love for Aiwa years ago.  I still have a pair of their earclips which still has a rather fun sound to it.


----------



## golov17

Good old dark sounds from Astrotec


----------



## Danneq

So you found a pair of Lyra? They are nice. Not among the best of earbuds, but I found that Lyra is very forgiving of bright sources and/or recordings. Plus they do sound very nice.


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> So you found a pair of Lyra? They are nice. Not among the best of earbuds, but I found that Lyra is very forgiving of bright sources and/or recordings. Plus they do sound very nice.







Yup, I jumped and has not lost, I like their dark sound  
(Nelly Furtado not very good with, but Ofra Haza really very nice!)


----------



## ld100

​Got mine and MusicMaker / Toneking Tomahawk and after 20 hours or so I am missing detail... Is it just me or they need long break in time?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I'm starting to wonder about the Tomahawk.  Some of us absolutely love them and other not so much.  I find mine have great controlled bass and wonderful detail (though maybe not the most natural sound).


----------



## vapman

Anyone want my FAAEAL 300ohm?
 They're good, but I have Red Demon now....


----------



## ld100

bloodypenguin said:


> I'm starting to wonder about the Tomahawk.  Some of us absolutely love them and other not so much.  I find mine have great controlled bass and wonderful detail (though maybe not the most natural sound).


 
  
 I really don't have much good to say about them for now... Kind of a let down... Unless what I got is defective... I will give it more time...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Quick update on my newest beater earbuds, the *HIFIKIWI H1*.
  
  
_What I like: _ Simple smooth signature with decent bass extension and surprising amount of detail throughout.
  
_What I don't like:_  Cheapest Cable I have ever felt, it is like a hardened wire.
  
  
 Some may not like the J cable, but I have turned into a big fan of them.
  
 I think* if *HIFIKIWI would skip the packaging and spend a bit more on the cable they'd have a super product.  Otherwise I am a big fan of these fun earbuds.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

ld100 said:


> I really don't have much good to say about them for now... Kind of a let down... Unless what I got is defective... I will give it more time...


 

 Mine sounded amazing from the first time I used them.  Burn in did little to change the sound. 
  
 I wish I could hear one of the versions that people do not like against my Tomahawk pair.


----------



## vapman

You guys really need to give the bMac amp some consideration. It's one of the better portable amps i've heard.
  
 I've heard a LOT of amps. 10 years on head-fi.  Two items I never saw myself parting with - the Zen 2 and the Cayin C5 - replaced by Red Demon and bMac!
  
 Even Monk with bMac is killer. All my headphones are great with it.
  
 Highly recommended unless you need ridiculous amounts of power (LCD's or SZ2000's at high volume or something)
  
 I will post some pictures soon when I'm not busy listening but I took it apart to have a look at the guts


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> You guys really need to give the bMac amp some consideration. It's one of the better portable amps i've heard.
> 
> I've heard a LOT of amps. 10 years on head-fi.  Two items I never saw myself parting with - the Zen 2 and the Cayin C5 - replaced by Red Demon and bMac!
> 
> ...


 
  
 GUT PIC!


----------



## fairx

ld100 said:


> ​Got mine and MusicMaker / Toneking Tomahawk and after 20 hours or so I am missing detail... Is it just me or they need long break in time?


 
 well at least mine is foam dependent, and fit dependent too. but its all good.. smooth or laid back or bright I can have my pick. but no way I'm missing resolutions here. my friends will order a new 2016 ver soon maybe I can compare
  
 well actually different ear different expectations of details. for a mere $40 its resolution and depth can kick $200 headphones easy


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> Philips and Fidelio were bought about 2 years ago by Gibson so now these are Gibson products. We will see how Gibson will develop these brands. Let's hope it will not be like Aiwa and Sony.
> More here http://www.gibsoninnovations.com/en/our-brands/philips


Btw, you compared LYRA with LYRA6 sound sig?


----------



## mebaali

Got these this morning (have seen a post from @golov17 praising these of few pages back. Thanks for your valuable inputs, bud!).
  

  
  
 OOTB without any cover, these were sounding good (used Fiio X1 LO and NX1 combo, songs of Tamil feature film tracks from 80s) except the right piece seems to produce some kinda jarring sound in the background occasionally at high volumes in certain songs. Even with that slight annoyance (to my ears), these seems to have a pretty balanced sound signature (may be a tad forwardness in vocals), bass is not overpowering other frequencies, treble appears non-spikey, soundstage is intimate. For under US$ 4, these are decent buds.


----------



## golov17

Yup


----------



## luedriver

I was wondering, with all these re cabled earbuds, is it worth it to pay someone to recable your earbuds? the cost of sending back and forth with  the cost of the cables, a 3.5mm jack...
  
is anyone actually doing this taking orders for recabling earbuds/iem's?


----------



## Tomasz2D

golov17 said:


> Btw, you compared LYRA with LYRA6 sound sig?


 
 Never heard LYRA so cannot compare. I just can suspect why they made that ear hook. So that ear hook allows for looser and more distanced ear insert and that way they do not sound so dark. You push them harder into your ear and they start to sound dark and compressed. You insert them loosely, hanging a little bit on that hook and they sound more airy. Also I use them with full foams that way.


----------



## luedriver

mebaali said:


> Got these this morning (have seen a post from @golov17 praising these of few pages back. Thanks for your valuable inputs, bud!).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I see you also have she3800, how do they compare? how do they sound like? thinking of buying a pair for about 20aud, do you think they are worth it?


----------



## mebaali

luedriver said:


> I see you also have she3800, how do they compare? how do they sound like? thinking of buying a pair for about 20aud, do you think they are worth it?


 
 I got them only this morning (bought for US$ 3.21), have used for just about an hour or so.
  
 BTW, I do not own many earbuds and yet to compare these against my Monk and Philips SHE1360 (my favt buds, bought for under 2 US$).
  
 So far, I am liking what I am listening through SHE3800 (mostly Tamil feature film tracks). These sounds pretty balanced to my ears with ever so slight emphasis on vocals.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## luedriver

mebaali said:


> I got them only this morning (bought for US$ 3.21), have used for just about an hour or so.
> 
> BTW, I do not own many earbuds and yet to compare these against my Monk and Philips SHE1360 (my favt buds, bought for under 2 US$).
> 
> ...


 
 sorry, my mind froze a bit, thought she3800 was she3200 and was asking you to compare the 2, it can get a little confusing sometimes with all these numbers


----------



## mebaali

luedriver said:


> sorry, my mind froze a bit, thought she3800 was she3200 and was asking you to compare the 2, it can get a little confusing sometimes with all these numbers


 
 No problem whatsoever. I do not own Philips SHE3200 but it is available for approximately US$ 10 herein India.
  
 Reviews (not necessarily from audio experts but most likely from casual audio enthusiasts) from etailing sites appears pretty good.
  
 Check this link for some of those reviews.
  
 http://www.flipkart.com/philips-she3200-wired-headphones/product-reviews/ITMEFJVYKHYWF8WM


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> Never heard LYRA so cannot compare. I just can suspect why they made that ear hook. So that ear hook allows for looser and more distanced ear insert and that way they do not sound so dark. You push them harder into your ear and they start to sound dark and compressed. You insert them loosely, hanging a little bit on that hook and they sound more airy. Also I use them with full foams that way.


 In fact, they are not bad fit in my ears, and work fine with Monk Plus foams


----------



## MRK1

I'm giving my E100 a second chance, and I think I like them slightly better than the Monk. They definitely have better soundstage and high detail. With some EQ to give them a slight v shaped sound that I like (small bump in bass and highs, 2B + 2H in the Fiio E07K EQ) they sound very good to me. Too bad for the awful comfort. They keep moving out of place due to the heavy cable and bigger size with no "handle" thingy (I mean the thing that protrudes from the bud, how is it called again?).
  
 I think I'd like to sell them because they're not good for my ear shape I guess. They're brand new and barely used. How much do you think they're worth? They have no rattle or distortion so I think they're a pair of the ones with good quality control.


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> Anyone want my FAAEAL 300ohm?
> They're good, but I have Red Demon now.... :evil:







vapman said:


> You guys really need to give the bMac amp some consideration. It's one of the better portable amps i've heard.
> 
> I've heard a LOT of amps. 10 years on head-fi.  Two items I never saw myself parting with - the Zen 2 and the Cayin C5 - replaced by Red Demon and bMac!
> 
> ...



You're really like them, sir?
Btw, what bmac amp do you get? The best is 3ch mk2. But i never have it. I own bmac v4, neutral sound with decent soundstage.
Btw, i just realize that the red demon and edimun v4 is totally 2 different product. Soon i'll have red demon in my hand. 
I think i'll like it when i see your impression.

Cheers


----------



## mebaali

Just a quick update on Philips SHE3800 right ear piece jarring sound - It appears my audio source was the culprit (poorly mastered 80's recordings) than the earbuds themselves. 
  
 Philips SHE3800, a solid sounding earbuds (which is easy on ears) having excellent clarity for such a low price.
  
 Very satisfied with this purchase


----------



## adisatria

Hello guys

I want to buy earbud, but i still confused. Would you like to tell me, which better, toneking ting full metal or shozy cygnus? I want an allrounder earbud with good and vocal, but excellent for rock or metal like babymetal, bon jovi, GnR.

Thanks


----------



## golov17

adisatria said:


> Hello guys
> 
> I want to buy earbud, but i still confused. Would you like to tell me, which better, toneking ting full metal or shozy cygnus? I want an allrounder earbud with good and vocal, but excellent for rock or metal like babymetal, bon jovi, GnR.
> 
> Thanks


Cygnus not good for metal... better Blox m2c mk2 or Edimun v2, IMHO


----------



## Vignelli

Spoiler






Spoiler



Monk - silvercable - oyaide rhodium - ak240
Push monk to its limit..
I see a post above talk about "Is there any improvement after recabling your bud?" 

I proudly said.. Absolutely


----------



## rggz

golov17 said:


> Cygnus not good for metal... better Blox m2c mk2 or Edimun v2, IMHO


 
  
 Seriously? Not good? Idk what bands you're used to listening, but I really like with Devin Townsend, Dream Theater, Gojira and a lot of others bands in this genre.. with Cygnus. What aspect Edimun V2 makes better in your opinion? I'm really wondering about getting a pair after those good compliments.


----------



## adisatria

rggz said:


> Seriously? Not good? Idk what bands you're used to listening, but I really like with Devin Townsend, Dream Theater, Gojira and a lot of others bands in this genre.. with Cygnus. What aspect Edimun V2 makes better in your opinion? I'm really wondering about getting a pair after those good compliments.




Which better between cygnus and toneking? For all music genre?


----------



## golov17

rggz said:


> Seriously? Not good? Idk what bands you're used to listening, but I really like with Devin Townsend, Dream Theater, Gojira and a lot of others bands in this genre.. with Cygnus. What aspect Edimun V2 makes better in your opinion? I'm really wondering about getting a pair after those good compliments.


 More body, speed and aggression in the sound, to my ears
(listening Accept with Udo Dirkschneider and TNT)


----------



## rggz

adisatria said:


> Which better between cygnus and toneking? For all music genre?


 
  
 Atm, I prefer Cygnus, but do you mean Toneking = MusicMaker? I just have owned Tomahawk's from this brand and they're good, but treble sounds a little artificial and comfort isn't necessarily good if your ears are small like in my case, but they share some similarities overall on sound signature, Cygnus is step-up in comfort and more "analogue" sound, although I just listen rock/metal, jazz fusion and experimental IDK if my vision of "all-arounder" will fit with your vision.

 But for Golov's opinion, I should have opened my eyes for Edimun V2 if it is an improvement from Cygnus (and cheaper).


----------



## golov17

rggz said:


> if it is an improvement from Cygnus (and cheaper).


it's true  
just sure for it with Monk Plus foams, a great pairing


----------



## vapman

joy boy said:


> You're really like them, sir?
> Btw, what bmac amp do you get? The best is 3ch mk2. But i never have it. I own bmac v4, neutral sound with decent soundstage.
> Btw, i just realize that the red demon and edimun v4 is totally 2 different product. Soon i'll have red demon in my hand.
> I think i'll like it when i see your impression.
> ...


 

 Yeah. I really, really like them.
 They belong with some of the best that I've heard. Honestly and truly.
  
 I got the 3ch mk2. It is AWESOME. Soundstage is nothing like the Cayin C5 (budget king of soundstage) but the presentation is so *energetic and lively* that no matter what you listen to, the sound is *so immersive*
  
 Compared to some $400+ tube amps the detail is not the same of course but is a very close match and proves the bMac 3ch can roll with the best of them at a low price?
  
 Swapping between the normal headphone out and 75ohm out makes a big difference for some earbuds! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yeah I didn't realize Red Demon and new version Edimun are different. I'm gonna buy new version Edimun too. Totally impressed by Red Demon.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 BTW I spent my own hard earned money on all this stuff, none of it was free, so I'm speaking honestly as I bought this amp & earbuds myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 As I told the Bengkel guys - if they made a version of this amp that was desktop only and pushed like 4 watts, i would buy it right away... but i love the portable amp!!!!
  
 PS the 9v battery can be easily disconnected to use it as a desktop amp with a DC adapter with peace of mind.


----------



## CingKrab

vapman said:


> Yeah. I really, really like them.
> They belong with some of the best that I've heard. Honestly and truly.
> 
> I got the 3ch mk2. It is AWESOME. Soundstage is nothing like the Cayin C5 (budget king of soundstage) but the presentation is so *energetic and lively* that no matter what you listen to, the sound is *so immersive*
> ...




Interesting choice of opamps there. Kind of old...


----------



## golov17

Guys, what about Erqu耳机 ? Owners?


----------



## vapman

and Monk+ is getting all my head time with bMac.
 ridiculous how good this amp/combo is.
 tried with a variety of dacs and daps (especially ipod+their LOD, never used a proper LOD before!)
 such a good amp. i would love to hear the runabout to compare. but it kinda has that old school amp intense sound in your face power kind of sound.
 2x 250w monoblocks and stacks in your face level intensity really.
 that's why i love em so much with all earbuds. it's like they're made to fill the intensity gap earbuds lack.
 i especially recommend them to earbud fans for this reason.
 i wish it had a bass boost but i've been pushing software eq into it like i usually do and it's holding up well.
 clearly needs more mW output to get to bass rattling zone, but very pleasing regardless.
 worth the ~$110 i spend? yes, would keep.
 would sell if they made a higher output version in a monent though...
  
 spending my earbud time 50/50 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and monk+, monk+ pads on both, loving it. rubber rings on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 too
  
@CingKrab I thought about that too for a few minutes. but i'm having no preconceptions before giving it a good listen which is has all been positive so far. if anything, it kinda sounda has that old school american muscle power amp sound, which surprises me a lot, especially as it is not particularly a high output amp. i'll do more listening but for now i'm very pleased with it. i'm not saying it's a game changer but it should be given serious consideration for anyone interested in the sub $200 down to ~ $100 amp market.
  
 9v can be discnnected for permanent use as a desktop if you prefer to keep your battery in optimal shape. i would connect the battery, charge it for 8-10 hours to be safe, run it for about 4 hours, than disconnect


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> Guys, what about Erqu耳机 ? Owners?




I was planning on buying Erqu EQ301 (I think that's the one on the left), but it sold out on Aliexpress before I could buy it. Haven't bothered with Taobao.


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> I was planning on buying Erqu EQ301 (I think that's the one on the left), but it sold out on Aliexpress before I could buy it. Haven't bothered with Taobao.


I read somewhere that EQ100 best of them, I would like to try, once ..


----------



## Muniek66

Guys, which of these earbuds are the best alternative for MrZ Tomahawks, with more bass and milder trebles (soprans), but with a soundstage large as Tomahawks:
  
 -  Shozy Cygnus
 -  Seahf LD-3.0 150 ohms/320 ohms/400 ohms
 -  FAAEAL 64 ohms/300 ohms
  - Edimun V2,
 -  Red De'mun, 
  
 ?
  
 The source is DragonFly Black 1.5 (but I consider change to Red version, which can drive earphones over 100 ohms).
  
 Maybe I should wait for Edimun V3?


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> Yeah. I really, really like them.
> They belong with some of the best that I've heard. Honestly and truly.
> 
> I got the 3ch mk2. It is AWESOME. Soundstage is nothing like the Cayin C5 (budget king of soundstage) but the presentation is so *energetic and lively* that no matter what you listen to, the sound is *so immersive*
> ...



Damn! I really want to try red demon now. I hope the builder will send it soon as a tour program. And may be if it's that delicious, i'll take it and pay them directly.
Bmac 3ch mk2 is their best amp now. But, as i seen on their page, the builder is in progress of what they called "next generation" amp. Excited? But it's still on research progress


----------



## dearyon

I wonder if Red Demon is really that good. Hope sir Vapman not giving them too much praise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Eagerly waiting for mine here


----------



## CingKrab

vapman said:


> :evil: and Monk+ is getting all my head time with bMac.
> ridiculous how good this amp/combo is.
> tried with a variety of dacs and daps (especially ipod+their LOD, never used a proper LOD before!)
> such a good amp. i would love to hear the runabout to compare. but it kinda has that old school amp intense sound in your face power kind of sound.
> ...




Do you know what the marking is on that 8 pin IC to the right of the opamp? Can't make it out in your picture.


----------



## golov17

http://www.head-fi.org/t/812442/fs-earbuds-seahf-ld3-0-320-ohm-150-ohm-both#post_12680354


----------



## vapman

dearyon said:


> I wonder if Red Demon is really that good. Hope sir Vapman not giving them too much praise
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I paid $30 for shipping alone to the USA!
 and you can see i have owned many, many other buds in this thread.
 i had really high expectations! they deserve the praise.


----------



## vapman

cingkrab said:


> Do you know what the marking is on that 8 pin IC to the right of the opamp? Can't make it out in your picture.


 

 Not the JRC 4556AD, right? I'll get a better shot of the board in a minute with a non-cameraphone...


----------



## CingKrab

vapman said:


> Not the JRC 4556AD, right? I'll get a better shot of the board in a minute with a non-cameraphone...


 
  
 Yeah the other socketed DIP8 IC.  I'm wondering if it's a buffer or a single channel opamp maybe?


----------



## vapman

cingkrab said:


> Yeah the other socketed DIP8 IC.  I'm wondering if it's a buffer or a single channel opamp maybe?





That'd be a OPA2134PA  




irgunawan


----------



## CingKrab

vapman said:


> That'd be a OPA2134PA
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Oh that's an opa2134? Interesting... by the way that's positioned near the input maybe the 2134 is doing voltage gain and they're buffering it with a 4566ad?


----------



## vapman

cingkrab said:


> Oh that's an opa2134? Interesting... by the way that's positioned near the input maybe the 2134 is doing voltage gain and they're buffering it with a 4566ad?


 

 Of course @irgunawan could tell you for sure but that's what I'm thinking.
  
 Either way it sounds pretty dang nice. Would love to compare it to a "juicy" runabout+.
  
 I dont think I've even seen a photo of any runabout this close up and i know a few people here have them...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

danneq said:


> I was planning on buying Erqu EQ301 (I think that's the one on the left), but it sold out on Aliexpress before I could buy it. Haven't bothered with Taobao.




Crap, I just found them on Taobao. Now I must have them.


----------



## notamethlab

After owning only iems I decided to hop on this thread and do some reading, I decided to order the Monk+, MrZ Tomahawk, TY Hi-Z HP-32, and FAAEAL 64 ohm. Very very anxious to try earbuds for the first time


----------



## waynes world

notamethlab said:


> After owning only iems I decided to hop on this thread and do some reading, I decided to order the Monk+, MrZ Tomahawk, TY Hi-Z HP-32, and FAAEAL 64 ohm. Very very anxious to try earbuds for the first time


 
  
 I hope you like earbuds lol! Well, you probably will. I'm surprised though that you didn't just start with the Monk+'s and go from there, but if the other ones are anywhere as good as the Monk+'s, then you're golden


----------



## notamethlab

waynes world said:


> I hope you like earbuds lol! Well, you probably will. I'm surprised though that you didn't just start with the Monk+'s and go from there, but if the other ones are anywhere as good as the Monk+'s, then you're golden


 At first that was the plan but I read how the other earbuds I mentioned are great and decided, why not? Haha


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

Has anyone tried these? They look really nice, love the wooden housings. http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/diy-in-ear-earphone-Wood-Open-earphone/923848_32569104703.html


----------



## Danneq

zombiewinegum said:


> Has anyone tried these? They look really nice, love the wooden housings. http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/diy-in-ear-earphone-Wood-Open-earphone/923848_32569104703.html


 


 Quote: 





saoshyant said:


> For their price, they strike me as pretty impressive, and it's one of the bassier earbuds I've heard with some amazing sub-bass (keeping in mind we're talking earbuds and not basshead earphones/headphones).  On certain tracks, the bass might feel a little heavy for some depending on tastes.  Vocally, the singer sounds close and remains clear, making me feel pretty immersed in the song at times.  Instruments sound detailed, but can and will be outdone by more analytical earbuds, but then again the Mojito has spoiled me in that respect.  High hats have a bit of a sparkle to them, which I enjoy.  To me as someone who listens to Alt Rock mainly, with a little classical on the side, I think for most of my music it's well suited.  I'm not the person to ask about sound stage, but things feel fairly close to me.


 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up-update-april-17th-2016/5460#post_12660641


  


danneq said:


> Narrow soundstage with ok depth. Quite lively and forward V-shaped sound. Not airy at all, like I prefer my earbuds to be...
> 
> Edit: they are some of the most beautiful earbuds I have seen, together with the Radius wood earbuds (also narrow soundstage and forward sound, but not as V-shaped as DK-jin).


 http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up-update-april-17th-2016/4455#post_12565508


  


danneq said:


> If you like a narrow soundstage for gaming DK-Jin is perfect. They have a forward sound with a lot of bass and treble and a narrow soundstage with okay depth.


 http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up-update-april-17th-2016/5280#post_12646377


----------



## Saoshyant

I finally got around to ordering a pair of Hiegi donuts, but I'm feeling indecisive on which earbuds would benefit from a donut instead of the full foams I typically go with.  I'm thinking maybe one that's suited for classical might be a good pairing.  Any thoughts on the subject?


----------



## Tomasz2D

Who here owns standard and black edition zen 2.0 and is already AFTER honeymoon phase or had a chance to compare both?


----------



## mochill

Have both but not compared yet


----------



## Tomasz2D

mochill said:


> Have both but not compared yet


 
 Balance or single-end?


----------



## mochill

Single


----------



## Tomasz2D

mochill said:


> Single


 
 Very good. Would you compare them both? Nothing in depth, just quick impressions. I would like to know if the difference is obvious and striking from the first time in favor of black edition or one would really need to spend some time focusing on subtle details here and there to spot differences.


----------



## ld100

vapman said:


> I paid $30 for shipping alone to the USA!
> and you can see i have owned many, many other buds in this thread.
> i had really high expectations! they deserve the praise.


 
  
 I am getting confused... What are "Red Demon"s ?


----------



## vapman

ld100 said:


> I am getting confused... What are "Red Demon"s ?


 

 a different earbud than Edimun (de'mun modified Edifier 180)
 custom cable and edifier driver based


----------



## ld100

vapman said:


> a different earbud than Edimun (de'mun modified Edifier 180)
> custom cable and edifier driver based




So who sells them?


----------



## vapman

ld100 said:


> So who sells them?





De'Mun does.
you can find their facebook page, or message @allegrosurf

https://www.facebook.com/Demun-1712608572317586/?fref=ts


----------



## dearyon

Edimun V3 is out! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Codename: EV3
 https://www.bukalapak.com/p/elektronik/lain-lain-208/1yr8sa-jual-edifier-h180-himod-v3-oyaide-rho

 You can contact sir @irgunawan for more information about this


----------



## CingKrab

dearyon said:


> Edimun V3 is out!
> 
> Codename: EV3
> https://www.bukalapak.com/p/elektronik/lain-lain-208/1yr8sa-jual-edifier-h180-himod-v3-oyaide-rho
> ...




Wow I contacted him on the weekend and he told me v3 was waaaay off and I should order the v2... glad that didn't happen...


----------



## irgunawan

ld100 said:


> So who sells them?


 
 Edimun v3 or with code name EV3 has be mass product since this week.
 Its still have soundsig like v2, but with close enough of vocal than v2. Using the Original plug P3.5 Oyaide Japan, you clearly can see it because its uncovering with any shrinktube.
  
 .
  

  

 http://www.bengkelmacro.com/ev3-edimun-v3/


----------



## irgunawan

cingkrab said:


> Oh that's an opa2134? Interesting... by the way that's positioned near the input maybe the 2134 is doing voltage gain and they're buffering it with a 4566ad?





>


 
 You're right @CingKrab , BB OPA2134 as gain opamp, and 4556AD as signal buffer output. The v-ground using discrette with 2 transitors, not opamp like usually 3CH amps.

 I am afraid we got talk in wrong thread if we talking about amp right here. @CingKrab we can talk more in private massage.


----------



## Fabi

irgunawan said:


> You're right @CingKrab , BB OPA2134 as gain opamp, and 4556AD as signal buffer output. The v-ground using discrette with 2 transitors, not opamp like usually 3CH amps.
> 
> I am afraid we got talk in wrong thread if we talking about amp right here. @CingKrab we can talk more in private massage.


 
 Please discuss it here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 http://www.head-fi.org/t/811150/demun-bengkel-macro


----------



## CingKrab

irgunawan said:


> Edimun v3 or with code name EV3 has be mass product since this week.
> Its still have soundsig like v2, but with close enough of vocal than v2. Using the Original plug P3.5 Oyaide Japan, you clearly can see it because its uncovering with any shrinktube.
> 
> .
> ...


 
  
 I'm a bit confused.  You've told me that:
  
 "honestly, i must tell you that v3 have targetting to other segmentations of earbud users. Lots of tuning, and more reseaching."
  
 Yet you're saying that the sound signature is very similar to the v2.  What exactly is the difference?


----------



## irgunawan

cingkrab said:


> I'm a bit confused.  You've told me that:
> 
> "honestly, i must tell you that v3 have targetting to other segmentations of earbud users. Lots of tuning, and more reseaching."
> 
> Yet you're saying that the sound signature is very similar to the v2.  What exactly is the difference?


 
 v2 cant be reach people who hate v-shaped so much. thats its. but v3, its more balance, still in v-shape, but with closer mid. I'am sorry make you confused for my bad-hard-English. And because i canceling to do more tuning in v3, just little bit touching to inner-housing, so i think its will be rationable if the EV3 price cheaper than v2 before.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

My Hiegi donuts came in the mail today, and wow are they amazing. My headphones sound way better and are way more comfortable. I was playing around with stock foams and no foams before. This beats both. 10/10 for Hiegi donuts.


----------



## irgunawan

tayyab pirzada said:


> My Hiegi donuts came in the mail today, and wow are they amazing. My headphones sound way better and are way more comfortable. I was playing around with stock foams and no foams before. This beats both. 10/10 for Hiegi donuts.


 
 agree, Hiegi stock with no hole was my fav foam too.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

tayyab pirzada said:


> My Hiegi donuts came in the mail today, and wow are they amazing. My headphones sound way better and are way more comfortable. I was playing around with stock foams and no foams before. This beats both. 10/10 for Hiegi donuts.


 
  
 I'm using mine right now.  I've bought a few sets and very much enjoyed them.  
  
 ..


----------



## Mad Max

vapman said:


> For $5 they are almost good as monk to me. Monk has way more of a natural sound. These are like mini hifiman es100. good use of $5 if you like es100. *Sadly it seems like everyone with an es100 ended up with theirs going bad.* But these are nice so far. Great packaging especially for the price point.
> ...


 
  
 Dammit.  Wish me luck, then.


----------



## vapman

mad max said:


> Dammit.  Wish me luck, then.




It's just I've seen a lot of reports of specifically the left driver getting buzzy?


----------



## music4mhell

Any idea about ostry kc08T version ?

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ostry-kc08-and-kc08t-earbuds


----------



## Saoshyant

I do have a good pair of Hifiman ES100, but yeah the QC on that earbud is pretty rough.


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> Any idea about ostry kc08T version ?
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ostry-kc08-and-kc08t-earbuds


 http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up-update-april-17th-2016/5130#post_12632632


----------



## notamethlab

Can anyone help me with tracking my VE Monk+? It stopped updating on 6/14, is it normal if that happens? Any help would be very appreciated


----------



## golov17

notamethlab said:


> Can anyone help me with tracking my VE Monk+? It stopped updating on 6/14, is it normal if that happens? Any help would be very appreciated


http://www.17track.net/en


----------



## notamethlab

golov17 said:


> http://www.17track.net/en


 Hi thnks for the link, when I enter the number it says it can't be found


----------



## golov17

notamethlab said:


> Hi thnks for the link, when I enter the number it says it can't be found


Later. Wait.


----------



## fairx

notamethlab said:


> Can anyone help me with tracking my VE Monk+? It stopped updating on 6/14, is it normal if that happens? Any help would be very appreciated


 
 usually it stop tracking after it leaved the origin country or entered destination country. try your country post tracking instead. in 17track app you can set destination country. I usuall  use17track app and be patient. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. its not unusual, monk+ take more than 2 weeks to arrives


----------



## notamethlab

fairx said:


> usually it stop tracking after it leaved the origin country or entered destination country. try your country post tracking instead. in 17track app you can set destination country. I usuall  use17track app and be patient. :wink_face: . its not unusual, monk+ take more than 2 weeks to arrives


 ok cool, thanks for the help!


----------



## golov17

Edimun v.3 some pics


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Just came in the mail!


----------



## ld100

The more I listen to Tomahawk the less happy I am. There is definitely something wrong with them. There is absolutely no way this is what others liked. $5 dollars Monk's are way more pleasant. Should I contact the seller?


----------



## nihontoman

ld100 said:


> The more I listen to Tomahawk the less happy I am. There is definitely something wrong with them. There is absolutely no way this is what others liked. $5 dollars Monk's are way more pleasant. Should I contact the seller?


 
 try to describe what you are hearing and what exactly you don't like about them. maybe someone with a pair could help


----------



## springbay

ld100 said:


> The more I listen to Tomahawk the less happy I am. There is definitely something wrong with them. There is absolutely no way this is what others liked. $5 dollars Monk's are way more pleasant. Should I contact the seller?


 
  
 If you scan a few pages back, you'll find as many people that are disappointed with the Tomahawks as the there are people praising them. They are the ultimate earbud water divider, similar to the Havi B3 Pro1 of the IEM community.


----------



## rggz

ld100 said:


> The more I listen to Tomahawk the less happy I am. There is definitely something wrong with them. There is absolutely no way this is what others liked. $5 dollars Monk's are way more pleasant. Should I contact the seller?


 

 Well, probably you just don't like the signature of Tomahawk's, but for my experience with this specific earbud you can check those things:
  
 1) The "coke bottles" are threaded, then if it isn't firm/right fit could add more air and change the sound signature drastically, check it!
  
2) Fit. If your ears are small like in my case, they won't get the correct fit or sound with mids very forward, try fit the tomahawk's2342745[/attach]] like CIEMs
  
3) If you're hearing something like a "Bzzzz" in low frequencies the driver has issues and you should contact the seller asking for a replacement  pair.


----------



## ryanjsoo

ld100 said:


> The more I listen to Tomahawk the less happy I am. There is definitely something wrong with them. There is absolutely no way this is what others liked. $5 dollars Monk's are way more pleasant. Should I contact the seller?


 
  
 The Tomahawks have pretty much the opposite sound signature of the Monks. I personally didn`t like the Monks at all and loved the Tomahawks, but after some adjustment, the Monks sound fine. In stark comparison perhaps they sound thin, bright and metallic, but give them some time and they should sound detailed with plenty of clarity.


----------



## luedriver

I have been wondering for a while since I saw some philips sports earbuds, that look like apple eapods but are normal earbuds with a silicone cover that directs sound to the ear canal, if there were any covers for sale...
  
 I found some...
  
jbl/yurbuds replacement covers
  
 and
  
some no name silicone earbud covers
  
 has anyone had any experience with some thing like these?
  
 will order the no name ones, I know that they sell them for almost a different reason, I wonder how will they affect the sound, perhaps the seal will boost the mid bass too much, same as apple earpods when pushed in your ears...
  
 does anyone know of any other types of silicone based covers that would also direct sound in the ear?


----------



## Joy Boy

ld100 said:


> The more I listen to Tomahawk the less happy I am. There is definitely something wrong with them. There is absolutely no way this is what others liked. $5 dollars Monk's are way more pleasant. Should I contact the seller?



The most noticable disturbing sound is the treble. Sometimes peaky and harsh. It's okay for metal genre, but for other song especially vocal oriented, sometimes unforgivable.
For me, tomahawk still got a position on my top 10 and best price to performance. But i understand if someone really dislike it and others praise it. Segmented bud like Yuin pk1


----------



## AudioNewbi3

ZEN V1's for sale in Taobao NOS Presumably........I think....
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.109.E1sFu1&id=44121307754&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

> ZEN V1's for sale in Taobao NOS Presumably........I think....
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.109.E1sFu1&id=44121307754&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail


 
  
  
 Would probably be best to check with Lee if that's legit or not.


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> ZEN V1's for sale in Taobao NOS Presumably........I think....
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.109.E1sFu1&id=44121307754&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail


----------



## ngoshawk

golov17 said:


>




Lol. Always good for a laugh, Golov! Thank you!


----------



## fairx

joy boy said:


> The most noticable disturbing sound is the treble. Sometimes peaky and harsh. It's okay for metal genre, but for other song especially vocal oriented, sometimes unforgivable.
> For me, tomahawk still got a position on my top 10 and best price to performance. But i understand if someone really dislike it and others praise it. Segmented bud like Yuin pk1



Anybody else use their tomahawk as over ear? I use it over ear exclusively. This way I can place it in 3 different position. 
1. Driver upwards 45°. The smoothest and balance sound even with sibilance prone track. Ie most Queen track, 
2. Somewhat 90°. Warmest sound 
3. 45°-60° downwards. Brightest of all and cam be sibilant. 

All using original full foam for the best IMO.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Question: how does everyone here store their earbuds?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I have a larger case now and not all of these earbuds, but this will give you an idea what I use.  


  
 --


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Where can I get something similar to this?


----------



## golov17




----------



## rggz

Well, I have opened some bad Mrice/Baldoor E100's and my E100 "reference" which already were broken on the right side, for my surprise (not much in fact) they really have different drivers and tunings.
  

*Reference driver:*
 - 10 "air holes/vents", shape unique, white foam to damping in the back of the driver, diaphragm with a material different.
 PIC: http://i.imgur.com/x4ELW79.jpg
  

*Type 2:*
  
 -  11 "air holes/vents", no foam for damping, different material of driver
 PIC: http://i.imgur.com/eGdTG48.jpg
  

*Type 3:*
  
 PIC: http://i.imgur.com/g8MtNvB.jpg
 - Very similar to type 2 still without foams for damping and sound like sh***
  
  
 Please, guys! Stop to buying Baldoors/Mrice E100's it isn't more the same product, this disaster remember me the case of Coca-Cola releasing a new formula of a coke and replacing the original, an screw catastrophy!


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Yeah I ordered 2 Baldoor E100s. Both defective. Am returning them both.


----------



## rggz

and... After some disappointment with E100's case, for my surprise, I've received my DIY earbud with the "supposed" Cygnus driver (photographed by Golov's), as a product, they can win against Cygnus because they submitted a lot of foams over 1 pair of Cygnus lol. 

Nevertheless, the SQ subjectively share the same signature but more smooth on mid area and soundstage a bit more immersive (better separation), I think I'm liking more  because fits better with my personal taste, atm my surprise of the year this bud!


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Tympan

rggz said:


> ...atm my surprise of the year this bud!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
 which one?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Cygnus now sends like 6 foams per every purchasw


----------



## rggz

tympan said:


> which one?


 
  
  
 It's a DIY model based on a specific PK2 driver w/ 16 Ohms, but you can custom the cable, connector and the color of the shell. Idk if it's ok to send the link here, then ask me by PM if you're interested.
  
  


tayyab pirzada said:


> Cygnus now sends like 6 foams per every purchasw


 
  
 Haha, at least they improved that! I received my replacement pair with the same donut from Shozy recently


----------



## Tympan

rggz said:


> It's a DIY model based on a specific PK2 driver w/ 16 Ohms, but you can custom the cable, connector and the color of the shell. Idk if it's ok to send the link here, then ask me by PM if you're interested.


 
 Cool! I think I know where you got it


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tayyab pirzada said:


> Question: how does everyone here store their earbuds?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Maybe I'm new to earbuds but these Cygnus' sound like liquid gold pouring into my ears. I think I'm in love. I love the warm sound signature. Only wish soundstage was larger. Until my VE Monk+ and Rose Mojito's come in, I will be enjoying the Cygnus for quite some time.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

audionewbi3 said:


>


 
 Hey what are these bags called? Where did you get them? I'd like to get this as well. I'm going to be using a plastic compartment box.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Decided I will probably use silica gel along with my earbuds when storing


----------



## Joy Boy

fairx said:


> Anybody else use their tomahawk as over ear? I use it over ear exclusively. This way I can place it in 3 different position.
> 1. Driver upwards 45°. The smoothest and balance sound even with sibilance prone track. Ie most Queen track,
> 2. Somewhat 90°. Warmest sound
> 3. 45°-60° downwards. Brightest of all and cam be sibilant.
> ...



Full foam is a must. Even i use double foam (combine full and donut) to get the best sound




tayyab pirzada said:


> Question: how does everyone here store their earbuds?




Always keep it in dry-close case with a sillica gell. Especially for easy-oxydate cable like cygnus and ve zen


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

joy boy said:


> Full foam is a must. Even i use double foam (combine full and donut) to get the best sound
> 
> Always keep it in dry-close case with a sillica gell. Especially for easy-oxydate cable like cygnus and ve zen


 
 Do you think a container like this would work for earbud storage (if I place silica gel inside it as well)/


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tayyab pirzada said:


> Hey what are these bags called? Where did you get them? I'd like to get this as well. I'm going to be using a plastic compartment box.




I got those bags from DAISO, which is something like a dollar store. Check if your area has it. If not you can just try buying them online by searching "mini zip lock bags" or something.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

FWIW, I use my Tomahawks purely woth doughnuts and I absolutely love them. With full foams, I foind them muffled.......maybe I am a trebel head......maybe


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I'm definitely a Treble head lol. I always use Treble Booster EQ on Itunes.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

audionewbi3 said:


> I got those bags from DAISO, which is something like a dollar store. Check if your area has it. If not you can just try buying them online by searching "mini zip lock bags" or something.


 
 What size bags do you think will fit earbuds? 2'' x 2''? 3'' x 3''? I found a lot of mini ziplock bags online but am not sure of which size I should get.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Nevermind, I think 3x3 will work.


----------



## rggz

tayyab pirzada said:


> Do you think a container like this would work for earbud storage (if I place silica gel inside it as well)/


 


 I think watches storage boxes has a better build quality and "charm", like those models on ebay!


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Wow you are right


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tayyab pirzada said:


> What size bags do you think will fit earbuds? 2'' x 2''? 3'' x 3''? I found a lot of mini ziplock bags online but am not sure of which size I should get.




Size of the bags are 
L 4.7" X W 3.3"


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Btw, do keep in mind that my yellow case is fully sealed, so depending on the casses you use, cables might turn green.

But then again the ziplock should do the trick.


----------



## Anita Tang

it's to help you can fit for other different type earphones, but i don't think it can help get a better sound.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

audionewbi3 said:


> Size of the bags are
> L 4.7" X W 3.3"


 
 Then 3x3 should do the trick also I think


----------



## vapman

Sorry I haven't been posting much. Too busy listening to Red Demon.

not quite sure what it is but these earbuds have a certain intensity and liveliness to the sound I have never heard in an earbud... it is really magical

I will take more & better photos when I have the time to not be listening to them!

I'm sorry Zen 2... I don't have time for you anymore!


----------



## Danneq

Too lazy to take a photo and upload it, but I store my earbuds in their hard cases inside of a drawer. It's now around 25 pairs and that's close to the limit of what will fit inside the drawer. This is the main reason I sell of part of my collection sometimes. To be able to fit everything in the drawer. 

 In the drawer above I store my collection (15+) of DAPs...


----------



## luedriver

I keep my collection of iems/earbuds on a used rack that used to be for selling chewing gum 
  
  
today I found a pair of earbuds in a jacket I haven't used in a while, a pair of earbuds from a zte mobile, (HMZ8-C4-OMTP), I once had compared them with my philips she2670 and found my philips to sound a little bit thinner than these, today I used them outside and found that they have really good base response (for earbuds) and good soundstage, I used them with my iphone, even though its meant for android, it works well sometimes it cuts off, for 1/10th of a second, like a radio station, when passing under electrical cables


----------



## kibergod

What about model HP-320M by Ty Hi-Z ? Looks and sounds (may be) like Zen 1.0 ? Really?


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> This is the main reason I sell of part of my collection sometimes. To be able to fit everything in the drawer.


 
 How about buying new drawers unit? If you check out new IKEA catalog you will find a lot of earbuds compatible drawers units


----------



## Tomasz2D

rggz said:


> Well, I have opened some bad Mrice/Baldoor E100's and my E100 "reference" which already were broken on the right side, for my surprise (not much in fact) they really have different drivers and tunings.


 
  
 Can you write where and when you bought "reference E100" and where and when you bought "bad E100s"?


----------



## Danneq

Hmmm... Swede and IKEA. Such stereotyping!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I find it's good to have something that prevents my collection from growing too big. I mean, I can only listen to one pair of earbuds at any time.

 By the way, did you buy those Dark Horse ES (E2 & E4) earbuds from EE on Ali express? If you did, which one of them would you recommend?


----------



## golov17

ahh, give me your wisdom, lolz


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> By the way, did you buy those Dark Horse ES (E2 & E4) earbuds from EE on Ali express? If you did, which one of them would you recommend?


 
  
 If you remember I have asked for their actual producer in this thread (becouse obviously they are not Dark Horse brand) and clieOS replied that DIY producer is this: https://www.bhiner.com/sellerStore?seller=%E7%A1%AA%E7%AD%89%E6%97%B6%E9%97%B4%E6%83%AD%E6%84%A7 (using bhiner proxy) or original TaoBao page https://shop65519762.world.taobao.com/?spm=a312a.7728556.2015080705.3.dFXyue
  
 By the way I have ordered some of their other earbuds and waiting now for delivery from "bhiner" agent. Delivery will also include erqu EQ100 mentionned here by "golov".[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.74902)] [/color] 
  
 As for E2 and E4 - I bought them from Easy Earphones (aliexpress). They both sound pretty similar and maybe I like E2 a little bit more.


----------



## golov17

Interesting.. 
 TY Hi-Z HP32 vs VE Monk


----------



## golov17




----------



## Danneq

I did NOT ask or pay Golov to post that screenshot!


----------



## oopeteroo

Been missing out but is tomahawk still the one to get (best for the buck)for using without amp ?


----------



## Danneq

oopeteroo said:


> Been missing out but is tomahawk still the one to get (best for the buck)for using without amp ?


 


 You could always try this one and let us know how it sounds?


----------



## oopeteroo

And for vocal is it still Cygnus without amp ? Is there anything cheaper?


----------



## Saoshyant

danneq said:


> You could always try this one and let us know how it sounds?


 
  
 I could have sworn someone was saying good things about that one earlier...  maybe saying it has solid bass for an earbud?  Can't remember...  for that cost tho, it's awfully tempting to blindly try it out.


----------



## Danneq

Well, bass is pretty good. Not close to Zen 1 or 2, but still okay. I find the sound a bit too neutral (even if I like more balanced and neutral sound) and highs upper mids slightly too peaky for my taste. At the same time I found Zen 2 too dark for my taste. 

 While I don't think it's okay according to forum rules to push your own listings, I do think that the price is good for a pair that has seen less than 50 hours of use. Especially since it costs $249 new...


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> I did NOT ask or pay Golov to post that screenshot!   :tongue_smile:


google search, maybe?


----------



## jamesbdh

I keep looking at the Tomahawks and Cygnus but neither have a microphone.  I am using these mostly for mobile use and would like to be able to take calls with them.  Anyone have a suggestion for ones with a microphone?


----------



## golov17

jamesbdh said:


> I keep looking at the Tomahawks and Cygnus but neither have a microphone.  I am using these mostly for mobile use and would like to be able to take calls with them.  Anyone have a suggestion for ones with a microphone?


 
JiuShao E600(E300 Upgrade Version) High Fidelity Quality Professional Stereo Earbuds Earphones
 http://s.aliexpress.com/zqAfANJZ 
(Or FIIO EM3)


----------



## rggz

tomasz2d said:


> Can you write where and when you bought "reference E100" and where and when you bought "bad E100s"?


 

 I think it isn't more useful now because that's a question of batches and quality control, but my good pair I bought in 2015 and after that I just received different models buying from Mrice or Baldoor.

 The stores of my good pair here (2015), the bad ones or "random" pairs here ( the Oct. pair had sounded good, after Nov. I started wondering about the changes on SQ and the last one in 2016 it's just another sound) also I bought some pairs from Amazon, NewEgg and you'll find a lot of opinions with the same "diagnostic" like here.


----------



## ld100

oopeteroo said:


> Been missing out but is tomahawk still the one to get (best for the buck)for using without amp ?




In my opinion no. I still hate them.


----------



## MRK1

rggz said:


> Well, I have opened some bad Mrice/Baldoor E100's and my E100 "reference" which already were broken on the right side, for my surprise (not much in fact) they really have different drivers and tunings.
> 
> 
> *Reference driver:*
> ...


 
  
Is there any way to tell what kind you have without opening them? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Well, nevermind, I just VERY CAREFULLY opened mine and it seems like I got the lucky ones...
  

  
 Indeed they sound good after some heavy burn in and brain burn in, too bad the comfort is absolutely dreadful!
  
 Also I broke a pair of Monks. I still have 4 more but this is a good excuse to buy another pair of earbuds so I have 5 (one for each of my devices 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Should I get the Monk Plus or the JiuShao E300? Can you give me a quick impression on how each one compares to the regular Monk? Thanks.


----------



## vapman

I can understand why Tomahawk gets praise and would be considered great by some but I still don't like it, therefore I'm not sure it's the best intro earbud, you might want to own a couple others first and know if that's the direction you want to go in.
  
 I still think my remax Golov suggested are great for $5 and the mic is good for making calls.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> I still think my remax Golov suggested are great for $5 and the mic is good for making calls.


 
  
 Link to the Remax please?  
  
 --


----------



## ld100

vapman said:


> I can understand why Tomahawk gets praise and would be considered great by some but I still don't like it, therefore I'm not sure it's the best intro earbud, you might want to own a couple others first and know if that's the direction you want to go in.
> 
> I still think my remax Golov suggested are great for $5 and the mic is good for making calls.




I have a few. Few old few new... From old VODA to new Monks.... I am not crazy about IEMs and prefer earbuds... Tomahawk is a disappointment for now...


----------



## vapman

bloodypenguin said:


> Link to the Remax please?
> 
> --




golov17 found it cheaper and also discovered it. I know it can be had for a few $ less than 9.50 here some times

http://m.aliexpress.com/item/1932110361.html

Soundwise i compare it to the fiio em3 except with a slightly more relaxed treble and flatter midrange. It is a bit bright for my usual listening but is my first choice for exercising, skateboarding, etc



ld100 said:


> I have a few. Few old few new... From old VODA to new Monks.... I am not crazy about IEMs and prefer earbuds... Tomahawk is a disappointment for now...




I agree but if you like sparkly highs and energetic presentation over soundstage and balance you might like tomahawk. I thought it was too sparkly, bright and unnatural sounding for me. However if that description appeals to you (definitely fans of sony and beyerdynamic sound) could appreciate the tomahawk. But I will not dispute it's the most polarizing earbud in the last 10 years?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> golov17 found it cheaper and also discovered it. I know it can be had for a few $ less than 9.50 here some times
> 
> http://m.aliexpress.com/item/1932descriptiml




Thank you, appreciate the info and link.

--


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

What are the absolute best budget earbuds in your opinion? VE Monk?


----------



## ld100

vapman said:


> golov17 found it cheaper and also discovered it. I know it can be had for a few $ less than 9.50 here some times
> 
> http://m.aliexpress.com/item/1932110361.html
> 
> ...




Can't tell you. One of the reasons I started reading this board was my desire to find a significantly better earbuds from what I have. I started with Monks few months ago and they are nice, but lacking a lot for me personally. I got Tomahawk few days ago and I am very disappointed. I expect much more based on the reviews... I am thinking of Cygnus now... and maybe Rose BUT I am not so sure... Just based on reviews of Tomahawk I expected way more than what I got... Cygnus and Tomahawk owners, will Cygnus be a step up in a right direction from Tomahawk???


----------



## Muniek66

I also plan to change Tomahawks because of the bass lack and a little too harsh top, but I like Tomahawk's soundstage, diameter, details. I consider these models:
  
 - Edimun V2
 - Edimun V3
 - Red Demun
  
 And my new favorite: Ostry KC08.


----------



## vapman

ld100 said:


> Can't tell you. One of the reasons I started reading this board was my desire to find a significantly better earbuds from what I have. I started with Monks few months ago and they are nice, but lacking a lot for me personally. I got Tomahawk few days ago and I am very disappointed. I expect much more based on the reviews... I am thinking of Cygnus now... and maybe Rose BUT I am not so sure... Just based on reviews of Tomahawk I expected way more than what I got... Cygnus and Tomahawk owners, will Cygnus be a step up in a right direction from Tomahawk???




As a former owner of both (twice owner of cygnus) the cygnus is definitely the right direction.

I would also consider strongly just going for the zen 2.0, you would not regret it, but it must be noted the Red Demon has replaced Cygnus for me and at least 1 other member, I have not heard edimun yet though.


----------



## vapman

Bass is extremely light and overall very thin sound but quite precise, much more enjoyable than fiio em3 to me for a bud with mic, surprisingly flat sound, good for under 10 but monk is better if no mic needed.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

ld100 said:


> Can't tell you. One of the reasons I started reading this board was my desire to find a significantly better earbuds from what I have. I started with Monks few months ago and they are nice, but lacking a lot for me personally. I got Tomahawk few days ago and I am very disappointed. I expect much more based on the reviews... I am thinking of Cygnus now... and maybe Rose BUT I am not so sure... Just based on reviews of Tomahawk I expected way more than what I got... Cygnus and Tomahawk owners, will Cygnus be a step up in a right direction from Tomahawk???


 
 I LOVE my Cygnus's.


----------



## the diode

I can't speak on the Tomohawk's but I absolutely love my Cygnus. I vary between them and my Monk+. I am eagerly awaiting my ZEN 2.0 to see the difference.


----------



## Tympan

Cygnus are amazing comfy all rounder imo. I love them too!


----------



## audio123

as an iem guy. the ve monk is outstanding


----------



## rggz

mrk1 said:


> Well, nevermind, I just VERY CAREFULLY opened mine and it seems like I got the lucky ones...
> 
> Indeed they sound good after some heavy burn in and brain burn in, too bad the comfort is absolutely dreadful!
> Also I broke a pair of Monks. I still have 4 more but this is a good excuse to buy another pair of earbuds so I have 5 (one for each of my devices
> ...


 

 Haha, good news! Well, E100 shape isn't friendly with some ears, I was used to fitting with this style or putting an earhoox large on the "bell" shape to maintain the buds stable in my ears.
  
 Sorry mate! But I don't have Monk+ or E300 atm, but for I've read they are very distinct, tell your sound/signature preference and certainly people here will help you!


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Just ordered these: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-Handmade-PB-24ohm-Hi-Fi-DDM-Dual-Diaphragm-Matrix-Dynamic-Audiophile-Earphone-Earbuds/32651127312.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.2.XvU3Q1&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_8,searchweb201602_3_10037_10017_405_404_301_507_10033_10032,searchweb201603_7&btsid=6625ba7c-f333-4a0c-b833-337807ea2bfa
  
 They are apparently the DIY Powerbeats listed in ClieOS' list on the first page of this thread under "Greats". Dual dynamic apparently.


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> Just ordered these: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-Handmade-PB-24ohm-Hi-Fi-DDM-Dual-Diaphragm-Matrix-Dynamic-Audiophile-Earphone-Earbuds/32651127312.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.2.XvU3Q1&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_8,searchweb201602_3_10037_10017_405_404_301_507_10033_10032,searchweb201603_7&btsid=6625ba7c-f333-4a0c-b833-337807ea2bfa
> 
> They are apparently the DIY Powerbeats listed in ClieOS' list on the first page of this thread under "Greats". Dual dynamic apparently.


yes, this


----------



## Makahl

+1 Happy with Cygnus, so good in my X5II as my iP6 plus! Some thoughts about Cygnus vs. PK1? I know it needs an amp, just need to know if it can be an upgrade on SQ or not.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tayyab pirzada said:


> Just ordered these: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-Handmade-PB-24ohm-Hi-Fi-DDM-Dual-Diaphragm-Matrix-Dynamic-Audiophile-Earphone-Earbuds/32651127312.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.2.XvU3Q1&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_8,searchweb201602_3_10037_10017_405_404_301_507_10033_10032,searchweb201603_7&btsid=6625ba7c-f333-4a0c-b833-337807ea2bfa
> 
> They are apparently the DIY Powerbeats listed in ClieOS' list on the first page of this thread under "Greats". Dual dynamic apparently.


 
 Since you have bought the Mojito's, these PowerBeats will be redundant


----------



## vapman

I want them if they have a similar sound to the Mojito though.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> I want them if they have a similar sound to the Mojito though.


 
 I initially thought that they were neutral sounding, but after listening to the Mojito's I think they lean slightly to the warmish side of things.

 Sounstaging, Details, Extensions
 are all better in the Mojito's to my ears


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> I initially thought that they were neutral sounding, but after listening to the Mojito's I think they lean slightly to the warmish side of things.
> 
> Sounstaging, Details, Extensions
> are all better in the Mojito's to my ears


 

 expectedly so, as the mojito is 10x the price of the Powerbeat 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 not expecting it to be as good quality wise but the same/a similar sound signature would be nice to have again!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> expectedly so, as the mojito is 10x the price of the Powerbeat
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, that is correct.
 To a certain extent, they do have almost a similar signature, the Mojito's are maybe the PBDD on Steroids+Crack


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> Yeah, that is correct.
> To a certain extent, they do have almost a similar signature, the Mojito's are maybe the PBDD on Steroids+Crack


 

 I'm buying one now then and blaming you 100%!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> I'm buying one now then and blaming you 100%!


 
 You're welcome mate hahaha. I use doughnut foams with them. 
 If you want better bass, try them with full foams I guess. But since I am somewhat a treble head, I usually just go with doughnut.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

audionewbi3 said:


> Since you have bought the Mojito's, these PowerBeats will be redundant




Maybe so but I wanted a pair to use while commuting beyond just Edifier H180's. I sure wont be bringing Rose Mojitos out of the house lol. Possibly not even Cygnus.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

My logic is:

Warm signature:
- Use Edifier H180 for commuting
- Use Shozy Cygnus for home

Neutral signature/large soundstage:
- Use DIY PowerBeats for commuting
- Use Rose Mojito for home

To mix it up:
- VE Monk+ 
- Awei ES10


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

audionewbi3 said:


> You're welcome mate hahaha. I use doughnut foams with them.
> If you want better bass, try them with full foams I guess. But since I am somewhat a treble head, I usually just go with doughnut.




I have learned to realize I'm a serious Treble head. Never knew thats a thing. But i always prefer donut to full. And I always set EQ on treble boost.

Do you think Mojito will be my fav in this case?


----------



## Danneq

tayyab pirzada said:


> Maybe so but I wanted a pair to use while commuting beyond just Edifier H180's. I sure wont be bringing Rose Mojitos out of the house lol. Possibly not even Cygnus.


 
  
 Best to not bring Cygnus outside if you live in a country with a high degree if air humidity. Or if it rains...
  


tayyab pirzada said:


> I have learned to realize I'm a serious Treble head. Never knew thats a thing. But i always prefer donut to full. And I always set EQ on treble boost.
> 
> Do you think Mojito will be my fav in this case?


 

 If you like sparkle in your highs you might like Tomahawk. And yeah, as far as I understand, Rose Mojito will appeal to people who like treble.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Good thing I live in Canada where it snows a lot. Humidity not an issue though. But yea the Cygnus is staying next to silica gel most of the time.


----------



## Danneq

Well, Canada should have about the same climate as Sweden. It can be really dry here but parts of the cable on my Cygnus are still slightly turning green.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

danneq said:


> Best to not bring Cygnus outside if you live in a country with a high degree if air humidity. Or if it rains...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What does sparkle in highs even mean?

And a number of people here have been saying they dont like Tomahawk...


----------



## Danneq

Well, you can say that it means that the highs are not veiled and that there is a focus on them.

 Tomahawk have got a balanced sound overall, but there is some focus on upper mids and highs, At the same time the sound is fairly cold. I find that there is good instrument separation and you can easily position the instruments. Also bass is quite tight and does not bleed into the mids.

 I suppose that the focus on higher frequencies together with a lack of warmth in the sound can put some people off. I am not too crazy about treble and I found Tomahawk too sharp sounding with donut foams, but with full hiegi foams I find them to be great


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

danneq said:


> Well, you can say that it means that the highs are not veiled and that there is a focus on them.
> 
> 
> Tomahawk have got a balanced sound overall, but there is some focus on upper mids and highs, At the same time the sound is fairly cold. I find that there is good instrument separation and you can easily position the instruments. Also bass is quite tight and does not bleed into the mids.
> ...




Im still trying to figure out my fav sound signature but I have noticed Im into treble and in fact music with very little or minimal percussion. Bass has a cool factor to it but full foams hurt my ears overtime due to or maybe alongside the bass.

And one big complaint I had with Apple EarPods when I was only using them was it was too much of a veiled mid and high while bass was overpowering almost. It made it sound dark, as opposed to bright.


----------



## Danneq

While I see myself as prefering a smooth and somewhat balanced sound, I really love Tomahawk's focus on percussion in rock and metal music. They are anything but dark. But they have a quite "cold" sound that might put some people off.


----------



## Tomasz2D

rggz said:


> I think it isn't more useful now because that's a question of batches and quality control, but my good pair I bought in 2015 and after that I just received different models buying from Mrice or Baldoor.
> 
> The stores of my good pair here (2015), the bad ones or "random" pairs here ( the Oct. pair had sounded good, after Nov. I started wondering about the changes on SQ and the last one in 2016 it's just another sound) also I bought some pairs from Amazon, NewEgg and you'll find a lot of opinions with the same "diagnostic" like here.


 
 You are real E100 expert now. I got my pair of Mrice E100 from GearBest but I have no idea if they are from good or bad batch. All I know is that I like them a lot


----------



## BloodyPenguin

*Onn X5 *with the *Earbud Thailand BOE*:
  
 Simple, Clear Paring:


  
 --


----------



## Fabi

tomasz2d said:


> You are real E100 expert now. I got my pair of Mrice E100 from GearBest but I have no idea if they are from good or bad batch. All I know is that I like them a lot



I had Mrice E100. I bought it in november 2014 directly to Mrice Digital on AE but now the seller doesn't list any products. My pair sounded very good. I sold it because it didn't fit well in my ear after trying every combination of foam or earhoox...


----------



## fairx

danneq said:


> While I see myself as prefering a smooth and somewhat balanced sound, I really love Tomahawk's focus on percussion in rock and metal music. They are anything but dark. But they have a quite "cold" sound that might put some people off.




I really like my hawk with original full foam. I've been experimenting with different kind of foam and combination. But in the end I still back to original foam. I like treble too but tomahawk with full foam gave NO glare. 

With no glare I mean there's nothing overbearing another frequency. Picture solar flare effects in photos. However nice it seems, some frequencies will be affected. With no glare I can literally focus to any instruments and enjoy their details and resolution to the fullest.

Instrument separation is very very good but kinda tightly knitted and layered. In a very quiet environment tomahawk shines. Not so in noisy environment. As much I enjoy tomahawk I enjoy it way more in the midnight (I live with my brother who build diy power amps - it's that noisy during the day if you know what I mean ) 

It also handle complex track wonderfully. More complex the arrangement the better it sounds. It render depth beautifully. Indian movie song, classic rock and reggae is tomahawk forte IMO

Of anything, I wish for same resolution but wider separation. I wonder if ting is the answer.


----------



## Danneq

fairx said:


> I really like my hawk with original full foam. I've been experimenting with different kind of foam and combination. But in the end I still back to original foam. I like treble too but tomahawk with full foam gave NO glare.
> 
> With no glare I mean there's nothing overbearing another frequency. Picture solar flare effects in photos. However nice it seems, some frequencies will be affected. With no glare I can literally focus to any instruments and enjoy their details and resolution to the fullest.
> 
> ...


 

 I tihnk that Ting has got the same overall sound signature as Tomahawk but that it's more distanced sounding. To my ears it has got wider instrument separation. Since it is not as "in your face" as Tomahawk I prefer to use Tomahawk outside and Ting at home where I can appreciate it better. Or at my office during work (earbuds are good in this way since you can hear if your work telephone rings. Unless you crank the music up to the loudest setting, that is...)


----------



## golov17

fairx said:


> I really like my hawk with original full foam. I've been experimenting with different kind of foam and combination. But in the end I still back to original foam. I like treble too but tomahawk with full foam gave NO glare.
> 
> With no glare I mean there's nothing overbearing another frequency. Picture solar flare effects in photos. However nice it seems, some frequencies will be affected. With no glare I can literally focus to any instruments and enjoy their details and resolution to the fullest.
> 
> ...


go to Blox m2c mk2


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

Can the diy powerbeats earbud be bought from aliexpress?


----------



## golov17

zombiewinegum said:


> Can the diy powerbeats earbud be bought from aliexpress?


 DIY Handmade PHEB01 24ohm Hi-Fi DDM Dual Diaphragm Matrix Dynamic Audiophile Earphone Earbuds
 http://s.aliexpress.com/ErqqEzyi 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

Damn, only £22? Tempting...


----------



## golov17

zombiewinegum said:


> Damn, only £22? Tempting...


go-go


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

Wonder how it would compare to my Zen 2.0


----------



## golov17

zombiewinegum said:


> Wonder how it would compare to my Zen 2.0


first page this thread


----------



## kurtextrem

Wow, got a new soundcard (Soundblaster Z, previously Realtek onboard), put a Hiegi Full Foam on my Cygnus... and what on earth it became a new earbud LOL
  
 also the dk-jin came today. I'm in heaven right now. I'll compare Tomahawk, Cygnus, Asura 2.0, DK-Jin and AKG Y16 for gaming in the next days


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

kurtextrem said:


> Wow, got a new soundcard (Soundblaster Z, previously Realtek onboard), put a Hiegi Full Foam on my Cygnus... and what on earth it became a new earbud LOL
> 
> also the dk-jin came today. I'm in heaven right now. I'll compare Tomahawk, Cygnus, Asura 2.0, DK-Jin and AKG Y16 for gaming in the next days


 
 Awesome, I had been thinking of getting the dk-jin, the wood looks fantastic.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

All right folks, finally took some time (as in maybe 20 - 30 minutes) to finally compare the Shozy Cygnus and Rose Mojito.
 Before I begin, _kindly note that all statements made are purely personal and your mileage may wary_._ What is stated are just impressions of an audio newbie_.
 Gear Used:
 Xduoo X3 (Rock Boxed)===>Trasam HA2+ Extreme Edition===> Cygnus and Mojito
 Audio Tracks utilized were all in flac formate.
  
 White Album (Live Version)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAEvpReyek0
  
 Ryuichi Sakamoto - Seven Samurai 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc7B9Xkgcso
  
 Suara - Musouka
https://soundcloud.com/fray-pham/musouka-dream-song-suara-akiko
  
 All comments made will be based off of the afore mentioned 3 songs, and made in the context of comparing the Cygnus against the Mojito. 

*Shozy Cygnus *(when compared to Mojito)
 -Bass attack is quick
 -Bass has little to no bloom
 -Very good and intimate vocals
 -Vocals sounds rounder
 -Highs are clear but slightly "blunted" or "smoothed?" or "roll off?"  
 -Soundstage is deep but have limited width
 -Slight warmth
 -More laid back
 -Less revealing
 -A good amount of clarity (but separation may be somewhat poor)
 -Sometimes can sound cramped in
 -Piano notes have more "meat" to them

*Rose Mojito* (when compared to Cygnus)
 -Good bass presence (surprised me too after ABing)
 -Moderate bloom
 -Bass attack is not as quick
 -Clearer and cleaner highs
 -Sharp vocals (slightly recessed)
 -Able to pick up more micro details
 -Deeper and wider soundstage
 -Imagine and separation is also better
 -Good extension on both ends
 -Immersive listening experience (maybe due to the wider and deeper soundstage)
 -Holographic Piano

 Overall:
 Please note that this is just a normal and not extremely in-depth comparison, the Shozy Cygnus and Rose Mojito are both very very good earbuds for the price.

 For longer and more laid back listening sessions involving vocal tracks, I would no doubt pick the Cygnus over the Mojito. However, that being said, I will never use the Cygnus for classical or orchestral pieces, it is just not immersive enough personally. The Cygnus has sort of the same purpose as my Tomahawks, which is the Jack of All Trades in my earbud inventory (though the Cygnus will surely out perform the Tomahawks in the vocal as well as overall tonal balance department).

 The Mojito is an entirely different beast all together. I would not use them for any form of vocal jazz or any vocal tracks for that matter. They just sound revealing and "too cold" for my personal preference. For long listening sessions, unless you are listening to classical or orchestral pieces, you can be quickly worn out (meaning that hip-hop, pop, rock........no go (for me at least)). Mojito are what I would call analytical and revealing. Good for critical listening sessions with classical and any shape or form of orchestral works.

 So it has been one hell of a long post (maybe my longest yet since joining this forum). For those of you who took the time to read, I hope that you find my post useful, if not, any constructive criticism is always very much welcomed!

 Cheers~!


----------



## kurtextrem

wow, I feel like I have been missing A LOT. Now I understand what the Cygnus is about. I never knew Realtek is THAT ****ty.
  
 The DK-Jin are big and it's not easy to get the donut foams on them. I feel like my ears are too tiny, so I'm gonna listen without foams.
 Comparison: Cygnus fits like it was made for my ears with foams, Asura 2.0 with foams is ok too. E100 is too big.
  
 If you have big ears, go for it - if you don't: better don't, you'd have to perfectly position them to get non airy sound.
 After positioning them, the sound is fun and I can feel the bass. Sound is directly in front of your face.
 Sound signature is not similar to the Tomahawk, but I feel like it could be really great for rock music.
 I like the cable a lot too, even though I only have the blue one.
  
 Tomahawk update: When listening to rap, it seperates voice from the beat - that's a new experience. Cygnus doesn't do that.


----------



## dearyon

I understand now why some people don't like Tomahawk, It sounds thin and kinda metallic in some genre like pop and EDM thus I prefer Monk/Monk+ for this.
 Tomahawk not good on EDM. Lack a bit of body for some male vocal (something like Akeboshi's vocal). Some female vocal will sound peaky in high volume. And Tomahawk forward presentation is kinda fatiguing.
 But Tomahawk will shine on a song that need fast sound reproduction (really good for Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (band)'s songs and some Vocaloid songs).
 BTW, I'm using Monk+ thin foam and unscrewed the housing tube for better fit. Will try the original foam to get more bass out and reduce those peaky mid high.

 That is why now I'm searching for Tomahawk compliment/upgrade. An earbuds with a bit laid back vocal presentation, has more amount of bass while not losing speed and not less extended high. Hope Red Demon can answer my need  waiting... waiting...


----------



## waynes world

golov17 said:


> go-go




I almost went go go! But the bass comments causes me to pause dammit!

"湖西小筑 DIY Dual Driver - OEM Dual Dynamic Matrix driver from PowerBeats, some of the best soundstage and micro-detail, but very neutral and doesn't have much bass reach or depth."


----------



## golov17

waynes world said:


> I almost went go go! But the bass comments causes me to pause dammit!
> 
> "湖西小筑 DIY Dual Driver - OEM Dual Dynamic Matrix driver from PowerBeats, some of the best soundstage and micro-detail, but very neutral and doesn't have much bass reach or depth."


 this true  
For bass go on Seahf..


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> this true
> For bass go on Seahf..




Good advice.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> this true
> For bass go on Seahf..


 
 +1m


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

waynes world said:


> I almost went go go! But the bass comments causes me to pause dammit!
> 
> "湖西小筑 DIY Dual Driver - OEM Dual Dynamic Matrix driver from PowerBeats, some of the best soundstage and micro-detail, but very neutral and doesn't have much bass reach or depth."




Unless you're a treble head and bass doesnt matter much for you, like me


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

audionewbi3 said:


> All right folks, finally took some time (as in maybe 20 - 30 minutes) to finally compare the Shozy Cygnus and Rose Mojito.
> 
> Before I begin, _kindly note that all statements made are purely personal and your mileage may wary_._ What is stated are just impressions of an audio newbie_.
> Gear Used:
> ...




Sounds like Mojito will be perfect for my instrumental listening sessions. Sometimes you dont want to hear vocals.


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> Sounds like Mojito will be perfect for my instrumental listening sessions. Sometimes you dont want to hear vocals.


 

 Mojito is like little STAX earspeakers in earbud form. Vocals aren't gonna take over the whole mix but they fit in very nicely and everything blends together very well while also being micro detailed.


----------



## waynes world

golov17 said:


> this true
> For bass go on Seahf..


 
  
 Or continue being extremely happy with my zen 1.0's...


----------



## golov17

waynes world said:


> Or continue being extremely happy with my zen 1.0's...


absolutely


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

Have there been any hints at a possible new VE release recently or will it be a while until we see something new from them?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tayyab pirzada said:


> Sounds like Mojito will be perfect for my instrumental listening sessions. Sometimes you dont want to hear vocals.


 
 Yup! Absolutely
  


vapman said:


> Mojito is like little STAX earspeakers in earbud form. Vocals aren't gonna take over the whole mix but they fit in very nicely and everything blends together very well while also being micro detailed.


 
 I haven't heard the stacks so I can't say for sure. But for me personally, since I have both the Cygnus and Mojitos, I just use the Cygnus for vocals as I feel that vocals are not the strong point of the Mojitos. Vocal jazz will loose that intimate feeling you get when listening to it with either Cygnus or SeaHF.....to me at least hahaha 
 EDIT: Yup you are absolutely right, the mids do not bleed into the other ranges


----------



## AudioNewbi3

waynes world said:


> Or continue being extremely happy with my zen 1.0's...


 
 Yeah!


----------



## golov17

zombiewinegum said:


> Have there been any hints at a possible new VE release recently or will it be a while until we see something new from them?


Not now.. maybe in 2017 y


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> Mojito is like little STAX earspeakers in earbud form. Vocals aren't gonna take over the whole mix but they fit in very nicely and everything blends together very well while also being micro detailed.


 
 I'm surprised there isn't a lengthy review of the Mojito yet.


----------



## kfarndog

danneq said:


> Well, you can say that it means that the highs are not veiled and that there is a focus on them.
> 
> Tomahawk have got a balanced sound overall, but there is some focus on upper mids and highs, At the same time the sound is fairly cold. I find that there is good instrument separation and you can easily position the instruments. Also bass is quite tight and does not bleed into the mids.
> 
> I suppose that the focus on higher frequencies together with a lack of warmth in the sound can put some people off. I am not too crazy about treble and I found Tomahawk too sharp sounding with donut foams, but with full hiegi foams I find them to be great


 
 The Tomahawks are a little sharp in the high-mids and treble.  Generally, I only like them when paired with a source that is warm or something like needledrops that you are looking for a certain sound to them.  They are certainly not an all-around earbud and probably put many off of it, but shouldn't be discounted as an excellent earbud.


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> I'm surprised there isn't a lengthy review of the Mojito yet.


 

 I meant to, but then I sold my set to a fellow regular of this thread, and he loves it. But I remembered after that fact that I never gave the Mojito a review, I just rambled about it a lot in this thread. and nobody wants to sift through old posts....


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> I meant to, but then I sold my set to a fellow regular of this thread, and he loves it. But I remembered after that fact that I never gave the Mojito a review, I just rambled about it a lot in this thread. and nobody wants to sift through old posts....


 
 I'd be grateful if you could link your old posts about it lol. I'm finding very little about the Mojito online.


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> I'd be grateful if you could link your old posts about it lol. I'm finding very little about the Mojito online.


 

 I'll let you know/link you if I find some good ones, but if you search this thread for posts I made with the word "mojito" and go to the oldest posts you'll find some really wordy posts by me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 They're mostly me being like "holy crap these are really similar to STAX earspeakers and are awesome but fit weird".


----------



## MRK1

rggz said:


> Haha, good news! Well, E100 shape isn't friendly with some ears, I was used to fitting with this style or putting an earhoox large on the "bell" shape to maintain the buds stable in my ears.
> 
> Sorry mate! But I don't have Monk+ or E300 atm, but for I've read they are very distinct, tell your sound/signature preference and certainly people here will help you!


 
  
 Thanks for the tip, but style is not going to work for me, I did try all kinds of ways already, maybe with an earhoox I could get them to stay put, too bad I don't have any. Maybe I'll buy some on Aliexpress when I buy my next earbud, as is they're nearly unusable for me unfortunately, they just don't stay in correctly and after a while they kinda move outwards and the sound becomes airy and tinny. With a good seal or pressing them with my finger they sound very good to my ears. I usually prefer a slightly v shaped sound with slightly boosted bass and forward highs, and decent soundstage.
  
 Also, would anyone want to exchange a pair of earbuds for my E100? I've opened them as you can see from my previous post and they're the "good" variant, also they're not broken and just snapped right back together with no issue and don't fall apart. If anyone has a pair of earbuds you want to exchange for them send me a message. The ones I'm interested in are the Monk+, JiuShao E300, Edifier, and the Shozy Cygnus (will pay the price difference for these). Europe only.


----------



## nihontoman

All I can say, is I'm glad I asked around and searched for info on earbuds that have my proffered sound signature, because I really wanted to get the MRZ tomahawks because they looked pretty good


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Question to everyone here:
  
 Is it really necessary to have an amp?
  
 I have the following earbuds (most of which I am still waiting for in the mail). Do I really need an Amp? And if so, what is a good one that is inexpensive?
  
 - Edifier H180
 - VE Monk Plus
 - Shozy Cygnus
 - Rose Technology Mojito
 - DIY Dual Dynamic Matrix with PowerBeats Driver
 - Awei ES10
 - Apple EarPods
  
 As far as source I usually use Ipod Nano 7th generation.


----------



## nihontoman

tayyab pirzada said:


> Question to everyone here:
> 
> Is it really necessary to have an amp?
> 
> ...


 

 depends on phones, but it won't hurt. also, judging from the fact that you have some pretty expensive buds, something like a schiit magni 2 for 99$ won't hurt your wallet so much and you are pretty much guaranteed to have NO requirement for other desktop amp. if you wan't portable, I'd just get a good player with good amplifier built in (I use iBasso DX50 for example).
  
  
 as for the necessity, it depends - depends if you want to get sound from your phones or want to use their full potential. by using their full potential, I mean almost any phone will benefit from an amp that has heaps of headspace and power. all I can say my phones sound better out from my DX50 compared to headphone out on my pc...


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

nihontoman said:


> depends on phones, but it won't hurt. also, judging from the fact that you have some pretty expensive buds, something like a schiit magni 2 for 99$ won't hurt your wallet so much and you are pretty much guaranteed to have NO requirement for other desktop amp. if you wan't portable, I'd just get a good player with good amplifier built in (I use iBasso DX50 for example).
> 
> 
> as for the necessity, it depends - depends if you want to get sound from your phones or want to use their full potential. by using their full potential, I mean almost any phone will benefit from an amp that has heaps of headspace and power. all I can say my phones sound better out from my DX50 compared to headphone out on my pc...


 
 Hmmm, I'm not sure I want to buy a whole other audio player though. I already have an ipod which I use for listening. 
  
 Are there any portable amps that would work with an iPod Nano 7th generation?


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> Hmmm, I'm not sure I want to buy a whole other audio player though. I already have an ipod which I use for listening.
> 
> Are there any portable amps that would work with an iPod Nano 7th generation?


 

 if it has the dock port you can get a LOD, a few places make them... i have a Bengkel Macro one that is super nice
  

  
  
 ffio and some other people also make them
  
 If it doesn't have a dock port i think you don't have much option


----------



## artpiggo

tayyab pirzada said:


> Question to everyone here:
> 
> Is it really necessary to have an amp?
> 
> ...




The only way to know is you go to headphone shop. Ask for random amp. Try it with each of yours. If any of it sounds even better for your taste, that one requires amp to get its final voice.

In your list, i have only ve monk plus. In my case, ve monk plus requires amp for me


----------



## mochill

Rose mojito @ penonaudio


----------



## rggz

tayyab pirzada said:


> I'm surprised there isn't a lengthy review of the Mojito yet.


 

 You can try read here this review about Mojito with translate:
 http://blog.livedoor.jp/headphone_metal/archives/52304993.html
  
 I think this translator is the best for Japanese to English: http://www.excite.co.jp/world/english_japanese/


----------



## golov17

I hope get soon a "real" Edimun v3, to compare it with Edimun v2. Expectation.


----------



## Zani004

golov17 said:


> I hope get soon a "real" Edimun v3, to compare it with Edimun v2. Expectation.


 

 The pictures here http://www.bengkelmacro.com/ev3-edimun-v3/ show both a straight and 90 degree plug. Do you have a choice?
  
 When you spoke to them, did you learn whether there is any sacrifice in the lows to improve the mids over version 2?


----------



## golov17

there is a choice, but I prefer the straight .. I have to hear it with your ears, to say for sure


----------



## Tony Ng

waynes world said:


> I almost went go go! But the bass comments causes me to pause dammit!
> 
> "湖西小筑 DIY Dual Driver - OEM Dual Dynamic Matrix driver from PowerBeats, some of the best soundstage and micro-detail, but very neutral and doesn't have much bass reach or depth."


the name 湖西小筑 sounds more like a love hotel..


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tony ng said:


> the name 湖西小筑 sounds more like a love hotel..


 
 Ahahahaha true that.
 But i though that it meant Small workshop/hut by the side of the west lake? hahaha


----------



## Zani004

golov17 said:


> there is a choice, but I prefer the straight .. I have to hear it with your ears, to say for sure


 
  


golov17 said:


> there is a choice, but I prefer the straight .. I have to hear it with your ears, to say for sure


 

 Thank you, that's good to know. Now have to wait for your comparison.


----------



## vapman

Compared H180 to Red Demon....
  
 shocked they are the same driver, the Red Demon sounds so different compared to a stock H180!
  
 Mids are much more forward on Red Demon than H180, definitely a re-balanced sound for sure.
  
 H180 easier to bump bass and overload it with sub bass though. I definitely treat them worse than the Red Demons.
  
 Gotta get Edimun v3 then recable my own H180 and see what happens 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Still using only the bMac MK2 3CH, this little thing seriously rocks. I probably use the 75 ohm output more than the normal headphone output. great for doing comparisons. Sound hits way above its price point. under $100 usd and an easy winner IMO...


----------



## dearyon

Red Demon has arrived!
 Haven't doing much AB-ing it with Tomahawks but what I can say for sure in my early impression is the lows, highs and details is better than Tomahawk. The vocals is as forward as Tomahawk in my hearing.
 The builder said that I have to do a burn in for it, but it doesn't need that to sound better than Tomahawk 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I only ask for compliment for Tomahawk yet what I get is a great step-up upgrade. Really happy with this purchase. Thank you for sir Vapman, Joy Boy and Golov for deceiving me in a good way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Finally I have found my all-rounder queen


----------



## vapman

@BloodyPenguin
  
 I wanted to get a 2nd set of remax as they're such good exercise earbuds... partly due to how they absolutely do NOT care about how you have them seated in your ears! I can move them all around and the sound doesn't change one bit.
  
 Anyway I found the cheaper link golov originally found for me and where I got mine from, they shipped extremely quickly and i was happy with buying from this store, so i will be buying my 2nd set of remax from them.
  
 No real need for a 2nd set unless i lose/break these, if I see something else interesting with a mic I will pick it up, but this has a really nice mic and good sound too
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-REMAX-RM-303-3-5mm-Plug-Stereo-Headphone-Pure-Music-Earphone-Wired-Headset-Earphone-Wires/32653588657.html
  
 edit: even cheaper on ebay AND WITH ePACKET!!! http://www.ebay.com/itm/REMAX-RM-303-3-5mm-Plug-Headphone-Pure-Music-Earphone-/231927801732?var=&hash=item35fff96784m_i9Jt0Gp_pYnS9dEtuUv1A


----------



## Muniek66

dearyon said:


> Red Demon has arrived!
> Haven't doing much AB-ing it with Tomahawks but what I can say for sure in my early impression is the lows, highs and details is better than Tomahawk. The vocals is as forward as Tomahawk in my hearing.
> The builder said that I have to do a burn in for it, but it doesn't need that to sound better than Tomahawk
> 
> ...


 
  
 Friend, do you think If I overall like Tomahawk's sound signature (soundstage, details, separation, forwarded vocals), but I want more pure bass and not sharp top, I should go to Red Demon or consider the Shozy Cygnus or maybe Edimun V2/V3?


----------



## vapman

muniek66 said:


> Friend, do you think If I overall like Tomahawk's sound signature (soundstage, details, separation, forwarded vocals), but I want more pure bass and not sharp top, I should go to Red Demon or consider the Shozy Cygnus or maybe Edimun V2/V3?


 

 The Red Demon has less bass than the stock H180 and I have heard neither Edimun V2 or V3 so i can't compare there.
  
 H180 and SeaHf 400ohm have the best pure sub & mid bass of any earbud I've heard to date. Those two you can really EQ the heck out of and push some serious power to them.


----------



## dearyon

muniek66 said:


> Friend, do you think If I overall like Tomahawk's sound signature (soundstage, details, separation, forwarded vocals), but I want more pure bass and not sharp top, I should go to Red Demon or consider the Shozy Cygnus or maybe Edimun V2/V3?


 
 Haven't heard Edimun V2/V3 or Shozy Cygnus, sorry.
 But I can say that Red Demon is overall better than Tomahawk. Red Demon have warmer and rounder lows, reach deeper while still being really controlled and does not bloat to other freq, have more detail and more controlled highs. Bass speed is awesome and I can hear the warm of wood from acoustic guitar with Red Demon. All IMHO


----------



## dearyon

But I think mine have a different jack than the one that sir Vapman had...
 now I'm asking De'mun for confirmation


----------



## Muniek66

Thanks for reply!
  
 Quote:


vapman said:


> The Red Demon has less bass than the stock H180 and I have heard neither Edimun V2 or V3 so i can't compare there.
> 
> H180 and SeaHf 400ohm have the best pure sub & mid bass of any earbud I've heard to date. Those two you can really EQ the heck out of and push some serious power to them.


 
  
 Bass is not priority, I don't like when dominates over other bands, but in Tomahawk's is it bit too little, not punching.
  
  


dearyon said:


> Haven't heard Edimun V2/V3 or Shozy Cygnus, sorry.
> But I can say that Red Demon is overall better than Tomahawk. Red Demon have warmer and rounder lows, reach deeper while still being really controlled and does not bloat to other freq, have more detail and more controlled highs. Bass speed is awesome and I can hear the warm of wood from acoustic guitar with Red Demon. All IMHO


 
  
 Vocals are forwarded in Red Demon as in Tomahawk? I really like this element of signature, for opposites, Monk + are very retracted and listening to them, I feel as if I held my head in the box


----------



## vapman

muniek66 said:


> Bass is not priority, I don't like when dominates over other bands, but in Tomahawk's is it bit too little, not punching.
> 
> 
> Vocals are forwarded in Red Demon as in Tomahawk? I really like this element of signature, for opposites, Monk + are very retracted and listening to them, I feel as if I held my head in the box


 

 Vocals are more like Tomahawk's than Monk's on Red Demon, definitely. More balanced & natural sounding than Tomahawk, has more energy and life to it too. Less sibilant treble.


----------



## waynes world

muniek66 said:


> Bass is not priority, I don't like when dominates over other bands, but in Tomahawk's is it bit too little, not punching.
> 
> 
> Vocals are forwarded in Red Demon as in Tomahawk? I really like this element of signature, for opposites, Monk + are very retracted and listening to them, I feel as if I held my head in the box




Wow, you have different Monk+'s than I have!


----------



## vapman

dearyon said:


> But I think mine have a different jack than the one that sir Vapman had...
> now I'm asking De'mun for confirmation


 

 I don't think so, looks same as mine?
  

  
 Using mine right now


----------



## dearyon

muniek66 said:


> Bass is not priority, I don't like when dominates over other bands, but in Tomahawk's is it bit too little, not punching.
> 
> 
> Vocals are forwarded in Red Demon as in Tomahawk? I really like this element of signature, for opposites, Monk + are very retracted and listening to them, I feel as if I held my head in the box


 
 from my less than 2 hours of AB-ing, yes they are definitely not a laid back vocal. Will do more intense AB-ing after I cooked the Red Demon well


----------



## dearyon

vapman said:


> I don't think so, looks same as mine?
> 
> 
> 
> Using mine right now


 
 that... your jack have that kind of gear-like part and seemed to be silver(?)
 while mine have no gear-like part and gold in color, this is tick my curiosity... this is dangerous for a curious cat like me, will the sound be different?


----------



## Muniek66

waynes world said:


> Wow, you have different Monk+'s than I have!


 
  
 Maybe it's isssue of source. I use both with Dragonfly Black, which is warm.


----------



## vapman

dearyon said:


> that... your jack have that kind of gear-like part and seemed to be silver(?)
> while mine have no gear-like part and gold in color, this is tick my curiosity... this is dangerous for a curious cat like me, will the sound be different?


 

 I realized my picture was pretty awful.
  
 I hope this makes it a bit clearer.
  
 I'll check your post again and see but I doubt it would have any change on sound quality...  unless yours is a gold plug, then we probably have different 3.5mm connectors, but again, doubt that changes anything in the sound quality.
  
 We probably have slightly different 3.5mm connectors wrapped in the same branded heatshrink. I wouldn't sweat it though, any nice connector will sound the same, it's all in the cable.
  

  
 no more unplugging the Red Demon for the rest of the night!


----------



## dearyon

vapman said:


> I realized my picture was pretty awful.
> 
> I hope this makes it a bit clearer.
> 
> ...


 
 sorry for making you unplug you Red Demon lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 yeah our is definitely have different plug, now asking De'mun if the sound could be different
 and I'm just purely curious for this matter of why he use different connector...


----------



## vapman

dearyon said:


> sorry for making you unplug you Red Demon lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Let me know if they say yes, however from my own DIY cabling experiences, i would say no, as long as the plug is of decent quality and good solder was used  it won't change the sound 
  
 If yes... there are too many Demons to keep track of!


----------



## dearyon

vapman said:


> Let me know if they say yes, however from my own DIY cabling experiences, i would say no, as long as the plug is of decent quality and good solder was used  it won't change the sound
> 
> If yes... there are too many Demons to keep track of!


 
 will do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 there is actually someone that ordered Red Demon balanced plug
 and one of DIY'er said that jack can change the sound character but not so much I think
 but still curious about the difference...


----------



## vapman

balanced vs unbalanced will defiintely change the sound, but curious to hear what you hear either way.
  
 i have been BBM'ing the Bengkel guys pretty much nonstop so i'll give them a break from having to answer the same q twice


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> balanced vs unbalanced will defiintely change the sound, but curious to hear what you hear either way.
> 
> i have been BBM'ing the Bengkel guys pretty much nonstop so i'll give them a break from having to answer the same q twice


 
 Are the Edimun's really better than Zen 2?


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> Are the Edimun's really better than Zen 2?


 

 Haven't heard any version edimun yet, I have Red Demon which is slightly different from Edimun, but i saw it's better than Zen 2, and several others here will tell you they think Edimun v2 beats Cygnus... I am not going to be surprised if I prefer Edimun v3 to Zen 2. but i will wait to hear it before i say such things. the zen 2 is a very good, very hard to beat earbud.
  
 still miss the damn mojitos!


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

And you would say that Red Demons (and probably Edimuns) are "warm" right?
  
 Rose Mojito are cold to my knowledge. King of icy buds.


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> And you would say that Red Demons (and probably Edimuns) are "warm" right?
> 
> Rose Mojito are cold to my knowledge. King of icy buds.


 

 Mojitos are icy as cold and icy gets. You ever heard STAX earspeakers you'll now what I'm talking about.
  
 Red Demons are warmish but intense overall. I don't know the specifics but I know Red Demon is a distinct departure tuning from the Edimun usual sound.
  
 Edimuns golov or someone will have to comment on.
  
 Stock H180s are very very warm.
  
 SeafHf 400 one of the warmest i ever heard post-burn in but i might honestly take an amped stock h180 over the seahf and that's a 1/10 price earbud. Plus you get a very very lightweight cable built in and
  
 I might get a mic version of these for outdoor use cause I like em and don't find them to be terribly picky about fit angle, but definitely more compared to the Remaxes.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> Mojitos are icy as cold and icy gets. You ever heard STAX earspeakers you'll now what I'm talking about.
> 
> Red Demons are warmish but intense overall. I don't know the specifics but I know Red Demon is a distinct departure tuning from the Edimun usual sound.
> 
> ...


 
 I personally think H180 stocks are some of the warmest buds out there. Warmer than Shozy Cygnus even.


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> I personally think H180 stocks are some of the warmest buds out there. Warmer than Shozy Cygnus even.


 

 I agree 100%. Sorry if my post didn't make that clear - i've been extra rambly tonight. I apologize for the ADD-ness of my posts tonight!
  
 edit 100% with you here bro. I have had both of those ( had cygnus twice! second pair is MIA in the mail )
 Only warmer bud is seahf 400 but that needs some amp power for sure to show its true potential tho.


----------



## vapman

these look familiar to anyone?
  
 blackberry branded and on ebay for $2.50 a piece shipped
  

  
 if interested just search blackberry earbud... youll be assaulted with choices. these are some of the cheapest.
  
 the driver shape looked  kinda familoiar but i couldnt put my hand on it.


----------



## artpiggo

I would like to ask if I am the only one who prefer monk plus than ve zen 1/2. (with schiit asgard amp)

or it is just my amp is not matching with ve zen. should i just do only RA+Zen combo to get the final sound of it ??

anyone have recommendation on amp matching with zen please.


----------



## vapman

artpiggo said:


> I would like to ask if I am the only one who prefer monk plus than ve zen 1/2. (with schiit asgard amp)
> 
> or it is just my amp is not matching with ve zen. should i just do only RA+Zen combo to get the final sound of it ??
> 
> anyone have recommendation on amp matching with zen please.


 

 Unforunately not many here who own Zen + Monk also own RA.
  
 the few that do own different versions of the RA.
  
 I can tell you for a fact bMac 3CH MKII is great with all the VE buds and every other earbud i have tried.
  
 Try a cayin C5 too IMO if you like that more than the bMac.
  
 The bMac is about $50 ish less with shipping included.
  
 Never heard an asgard but they seem to be problematic overall for people using really low gain stuff like certain IEMs and earbuds, they usually seem to move to different amps. but you could sell the schiit and grab a c5 or bmac and have a little spending money left over :]


----------



## Joy Boy

dearyon said:


> Red Demon has arrived!
> Haven't doing much AB-ing it with Tomahawks but what I can say for sure in my early impression is the lows, highs and details is better than Tomahawk. The vocals is as forward as Tomahawk in my hearing.
> The builder said that I have to do a burn in for it, but it doesn't need that to sound better than Tomahawk
> 
> ...


 
  


dearyon said:


> But I think mine have a different jack than the one that sir Vapman had...
> now I'm asking De'mun for confirmation


 
 I'm glad that you like it 
 Eventhough i never heard red Demon. It's a totally brand new product different from Edimun. I'll get my pair of demo unit of edimun v3 and red demon soon.
 So curious about it. Especially red demon, as i read you and vapman impression, it's may be greater sound than i imagine.
  
 And about the jack connector, local builder here usually use 2 type of connector. Gold & Rhodium.
 As i see the vapman's red demon may be the rhodium and yours is gold plated.
 Is there any different? If it's same as i though, yes.
 The rhodium plated has brighter signature with better clarity. The gold plated has warmer sound with a very good bass control, but the treble less crisp.
 It's not a major different. But if you listened it carefully, the difference is pretty significant


----------



## golov17

Certainly, Edimun v2 impressive presence of quality bass reminiscent Zen1.0, but is less bright in comparison, black background resembles Blox. Remarkable earbuds, I recommend!


----------



## dearyon

joy boy said:


> I'm glad that you like it
> Eventhough i never heard red Demon. It's a totally brand new product different from Edimun. I'll get my pair of demo unit of edimun v3 and red demon soon.
> So curious about it. Especially red demon, as i read you and vapman impression, it's may be greater sound than i imagine.
> 
> ...


 
 De'mun confirmed that Vapman's Red Demon is using Acrolink Rhodium jack. While he haven't said anything about mine, I guess mine use Oyaide gold jack or something similar.
  


golov17 said:


> Certainly, Edimun v2 impressive presence of quality bass reminiscent Zen1.0, but is less bright in comparison, black background resembles Blox. Remarkable earbuds, I recommend!


 
 Sir Golov, may I know what type of jack your Edimun V2 is? Gold Plated?


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> Hmmm... Swede and IKEA. Such stereotyping!


 
  
 Of course it was supposed to be a joke but... we happened to be in IKEA today and just couldn't resist  Earbuds compatible shelves!


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

Hmmm these Edimuns sound right up my alley. What does he do to them (the H180) to improve them?


----------



## golov17

dearyon said:


> De'mun confirmed that Vapman's Red Demon is using Acrolink Rhodium jack. While he haven't said anything about mine, I guess mine use Oyaide gold jack or something similar.
> 
> Sir Golov, may I know what type of jack your Edimun V2 is? Gold Plated?


----------



## dearyon

zombiewinegum said:


> Hmmm these Edimuns sound right up my alley. What does he do to them (the H180) to improve them?


 
 They modified the driver, change the original cable and jack to improve it
  


golov17 said:


>


 
 Thanks sir! nice focus on the jack 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 That's Edimun V2 with Rhodium jack, do you ordering the V3 too?


----------



## waynes world

muniek66 said:


> Maybe it's isssue of source. I use both with Dragonfly Black, which is warm.


 
  
 Yes, that could be it. Or possibly we simply hear things differently.
  
 I'm using the Zuperdac, and to me the Monks sound great off of it. From what I've read so far, the Dragonfly Black is very good, but maybe it wouldn't be for me if it affects the Monk+'s negatively. Fwiw, I'm still waiting to find direct comparisons between the zuperdac and DFB.


----------



## golov17

dearyon said:


> They modified the driver, change the original cable and jack to improve it
> 
> Thanks sir! nice focus on the jack
> 
> That's Edimun V2 with Rhodium jack, do you ordering the V3 too?


v3 on next week  
Housing with new holes


----------



## waynes world

golov17 said:


> v3 on next week


 
  
 We need a "golov17 earbud express thread" to keep track of all of your buds and to keep track of your impressions of them all!


----------



## dearyon

golov17 said:


> v3 on next week
> Housing with new holes


 
 as expected from the king Golov 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 waiting for your impression sir! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and the hole position is different from EV3


----------



## Joy Boy

golov17 said:


>







dearyon said:


> They modified the driver, change the original cable and jack to improve it
> 
> Thanks sir! nice focus on the jack
> 
> That's Edimun V2 with Rhodium jack, do you ordering the V3 too?



Sir golov's edimun used oyaide rhodium. Edimun usually used rhodium jack. Mine is carbon rho.
While red demon, i don't know, more vary but you still can ask them specific jack to use. 
But for edimun, as far as i know, best with rhodium jack.


----------



## vapman

agh, i need a Edimun v3 sent here! i have to hear it!!!
  
 BTW found the Remax RM-303 for fun on amazon last night. 14.99 with prime. not sure if that's good if you absolutely gotta have it next day and nothing else would do, but it's so easy to get for $5 a piece, why not buy 3 of em from china and wait a week or 2 for em to show up?
  
 it was one of my fastest ali orders ever, from that random store i'd never heard of before


----------



## vapman

waynes world said:


> We need a "golov17 earbud express thread" to keep track of all of your buds and to keep track of your impressions of them all!


 
 +1 give golov a front page space


----------



## ld100

ld100 said:


> Can't tell you. One of the reasons I started reading this board was my desire to find a significantly better earbuds from what I have. I started with Monks few months ago and they are nice, but lacking a lot for me personally. I got Tomahawk few days ago and I am very disappointed. I expect much more based on the reviews... I am thinking of Cygnus now... and maybe Rose BUT I am not so sure... Just based on reviews of Tomahawk I expected way more than what I got... Cygnus and Tomahawk owners, will Cygnus be a step up in a right direction from Tomahawk???


 
  
  
 Question for the experts. I still HATE Tomahawks and strongly suspect that what I received is not the same as some of you have and enjoy. Comparing to Tomahawks my Monk's have a much better nicer richer sound on vocals and house music. But Monks sound a bit muddy to me. Base is certainly lucking detail. I do not need more base. I nee I guess more quality. And more detail overall, but I do quiet like the signature of the sound comparing to Tomahawks. What would you recommend next? Cygnus or Red Devil? I would hate to spend a 100$ and hate it as Tomahawks... I would appreciate your help!


----------



## golov17

ld100 said:


> Question for the experts. I still HATE Tomahawks and strongly suspect that what I received is not the same as some of you have and enjoy. Comparing to Tomahawks my Monk's have a much better nicer richer sound on vocals and house music. But Monks sound a bit muddy to me. Base is certainly lucking detail. I do not need more base. I nee I guess more quality. And more detail overall, but I do quiet like the signature of the sound comparing to Tomahawks. What would you recommend next? Cygnus or Red Devil? I would hate to spend a 100$ and hate it as Tomahawks... I would appreciate your help!


Edimun v2 or v3


----------



## vapman

ld100 said:


> Question for the experts. I still HATE Tomahawks and strongly suspect that what I received is not the same as some of you have and enjoy. Comparing to Tomahawks my Monk's have a much better nicer richer sound on vocals and house music. But Monks sound a bit muddy to me. Base is certainly lucking detail. I do not need more base. I nee I guess more quality. And more detail overall, but I do quiet like the signature of the sound comparing to Tomahawks. What would you recommend next? Cygnus or Red Devil? I would hate to spend a 100$ and hate it as Tomahawks... I would appreciate your help!


 

 reading any couple pages of this thread will show the tomahawks are either loved or hated and no in between... best to sell them probably to fund future purposes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 i prefer red demon to cygnus personally, i spent $85 with EMS shipping on my red demon to the USA, and the baseline price before shipping on the cygnus was $89.99 or 99.99 last i checked, and at that point you can only hope for free epacket shipping at best...
  
 also consider edimun v3 which also just came out by de'mun, red demon is a limited edition so may not still be available, but edimun v3 will be if red demon is not!


----------



## phiely

Just came across this which explains why I now prefer earbuds to IEMs:
  
  
 "Scientists say that your smell receptors can replace and regenerate damaged neurons. Yet hearing receptors can never regenerate or repair themselves....
  
 My concern is focused on the really prevalent style of 'buds, which are called inner ear monitors, or IEMs, and have that recognizable rubber tip.
  
 When an IEM is stuck in your ear, it creates a seal, and the movement of the driver produces nearly identical movement of your ear drum. Which is way more movement and pneumatic pressure than your drum is used to. Your ears then activate what's called the stapedial reflex, which is an emergency response that lowers the volume in your head by pulling the three little hearing bones in your ear away from one another. 
  
 Incidentally, the reflex also activates whenever you speak, and that keeps the sound of your own speaking from overwhelming your consciousness.
  
 Anyway, the problem lies in the fact that when it's always on, this reflex is annoying and fatiguing. Plus the volume drop usually causes you to turn the volume up on your device, further exacerbating the issue."
  
 Duncan Taylor
http://copper.psaudio.com/Issue1/11/


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

phiely said:


> Just came across this which explains why I now prefer earbuds to IEMs:
> 
> 
> "Scientists say that your smell receptors can replace and regenerate damaged neurons. Yet hearing receptors can never regenerate or repair themselves....
> ...


 
 You do have to watch with earbuds though that you're not turning them up really loud to block outside noise.


----------



## vapman

In between using my Red Demon, when I want to be rougher with my earbuds and bump more bass without worrying about damaging the drivers or anything, I've been grabbing my stock H180's over anything else more recently.
  
  
 of course Red Demon wins but I really forgot the H180 is really, really good.
  
 No wonder it's an easy candidate for modding. the stock wire is so thin!
  
 I think recabling these with some SOMMER Peacock MKII would be very rewarding! and having seen the size of De'Mun cables it could totally work...


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> In between using my Red Demon, when I want to be rougher with my earbuds and bump more bass without worrying about damaging the drivers or anything, I've been grabbing my stock H180's over anything else more recently.
> 
> 
> of course Red Demon wins but I really forgot the H180 is really, really good.
> ...


 
 I second this.
  
 I think H180 should be in the "Greats" category in Clieos' list. Maybe he overlooked it.
  
 For a 16USD bud, it is really amazing in terms of how warm it is without losing clarity. I have the P180 which comes with button control and mic. With donut or full foams the bass is astounding for a bud.
  
 Of course in details it is not as great as something like Shozy Cygnus or other buds, but it is still pretty detailed in its own right.


----------



## chicken beer

audionewbi3 said:


> Oh,btw, I have owned the 320Ohms SeaHf (new ver) for sometime now, and I must say they sound bloody fantastic for the price.
> 
> From my limited experience and audio review vocabulary, the seahf 320ohms, sounds a little "warm", high's are what I would consider "smooth" like drinking a cup of whiskey smooth. They are not sibilant at all and I can listen to them for more than 2 whole albums with 11~15 titles each. That compared to my Sony XBA10 and Hifiman RE-400, where listening to one album is all tha I can manage before fatigue sets in. (They do sound great though). Bass is good, it is there when you need it. (Sorry, I am not a fan of bass and I have no idea how to describe them) Mids, therefore I guess is where this bud really shines. Listening to Jazz vocal feels like someone is massaging your ear canals and brain with warm butter...........delicious. Soundstage is quite wide in comparison with my other gear, the Sony, Hifiman, Sidy KT100, and ATH EW-9. I think the Seahf edges out even when compared to the EW-9 for soundstaging.
> 
> Overall, a very impressive bud for the price. Now I am patiently waiting for my *湖西小筑 *_*DIY Dual Driver*_ and I look forward to seeing how they stack up against the Seahf.


 
  
 Was just curious if you've tried the 400欧 yet? I saw someone selling his 300欧 cheap on 闲鱼（chinese ebay），and really wish to know if I should buy it since I already have 400欧。


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

Selling some of my gear to buy a pair or 2 of earbuds but there's so many to choose from. Every time I come here there seems to be a new one mentioned! Leaning towards the Edimun at the moment.


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> I second this.
> 
> I think H180 should be in the "Greats" category in Clieos' list. Maybe he overlooked it.
> 
> ...


 

 I've heard about 1/3 of his list and don't disagree the H`180 belongs with the Monk.
  
 Modded 180 based buds like the Demons or Edimuns are a whole different game that can play with the big boys.
  
 Stock the edified 180 is really damn good for the money, but needs a little modding to get to great status.
  
 The easy part is you can do it yourself if you have the tools then can pick any cable you like 
  
 i know nothing about retuning drivers, that is magic to me.


----------



## chicken beer

frederick wang said:


> I didn't "talk crap about the monk", if you read my post on the monk several pages earlier, I actually said some very nice things about it, and I said I'd recommend it to everyone considering the price.
> 
> I actually saw some rumors about the feud between the Seahf company and VE company, there are contradictory allegations. What is the truth? Honestly, as a music enthusiast and an earphone hunter,  I cannot care less.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Whatever the truth is, it's clear that Seahf's boss is a good earbud designer, and I don't mean to mention so many good products he made when he was the earbud maker/designer for VE (at least Monk 1.0 and Zen 1.0 are Seahf's masterpiece, if I dare say though, inspired by swd2/pk1/etc., to name a few, which seem to be the few pioneers in the high impedance earbud market). VE's boss is a good businessman and usually finds great solutions leading towards good products, and his marketing is successful (he uses $5 monk to show his sincerity in selling good value stuff and $123 Zen to make real money; a zen 2 doesn't cost considerably more than manufacturing the monk as I see it) leading to huge sales compared to Seahf market sales. I hope to see Seahf's new earbud/IEM designs, and VE lowering the price a little bit. The zen 2.0 with the stock cable does not deserve such high MSRP ($79.99 would be the proper number on the price tag, $44.99 on the Asura 2.0 and still $5 on the Monk 2.0. Also, please find some other cables for the earbuds, thanks, the stock cable is a piece of sh), and the newer monk plus is not as good as the original monk (bought them used and I can say this safely). Seahf has the edge in terms of value in his products IMHO.
  
 Oh gosh, I can't believe I wrote the whole story this clear. Well, if you want to dig into many stories, just read some threads in Baidu Tieba. I respect both Seahf and VE and believe they just did not get too happy during collaborations and believe me, it happens all the time.


----------



## haiku

chicken beer said:


> Whatever the truth is, it's clear that Seahf's boss is a good earbud maker and has designed and made many earbuds himself, not to mention so many good products he made when he was the earbud maker/designer for VE (at least Monk 1.0 and Zen 1.0 are Seahf's masterpiece, if I dare say though, inspired by swd2/pk1/other earbuds which seem to be the few pioneers to name a few in the high impedance earbud market). VE's boss is a good businessman and usually finds great solutions leading towards good products, and his marketing is successful (he uses $5 monk to show his sincerity in selling good value stuff and $123 Zen to make real money; a zen 2 doesn't cost considerably more than manufacturing the monk as I see it) leading to huge sales compared to Seahf market sales. I hope to see Seahf's new earbud/IEM designs, and VE lowering the price a little bit. The zen 2.0 with the stock cable does not deserve such high MSRP ($79.99 would be the proper number on the price tag, $44.99 on the Asura 2.0 and still $5 on the Monk 2.0 will do. Also, please find some other cables for the earbuds, thanks, the stock cable is a piece of sh), and the newer monk plus is not as good as the original monk (bought them used and I can say this safely). Seahf has the edge in terms of value in his products IMHO.
> 
> Oh gosh, I can't believe I wrote the whole story this clear. Well, if you want to dig into many stories, just read some threads in Baidu Tieba. I respect both Seahf and VE and believe they just did not get too happy during collaborations and believe me, it happens all the time.


 

 Well, if that´s true I now understand why the old monk sounds so much better than MP to me. Should take a closer look at the Seahf stuff then. Thank you very much for sharing a peek behind the scenes


----------



## chicken beer

haiku said:


> Well, if that´s true I now understand why the old monk sounds so much better than MP to me. Should take a closer look at the Seahf stuff then. Thank you very much for sharing a peek behind the scenes


 
 Pleasure!!! By the way I heard the new seahf 400 ohms coming out recently, and latest words came they are phenomenal~


----------



## haiku

chicken beer said:


> Pleasure!!! By the way I heard the new seahf 400 ohms coming out recently, and latest words came they are phenomenal~


 

 Do you have a link?


----------



## chicken beer

They are not yet on sale in the US...


----------



## vapman

chicken beer said:


> Pleasure!!! By the way I heard the new seahf 400 ohms coming out recently, and latest words came they are phenomenal~


 

 I wrote a review of the last version Seahf 400ohm and enoyed it very much, similar to OG monk in sound for sure, requires a lot of amp power though. Never tried the 150 or 300 ohm version. I did buy the 300 ohm version but was so overwhelmed by Red Demon I just passed it on.


----------



## chicken beer

vapman said:


> I wrote a review of the last version Seahf 400ohm and enoyed it very much, similar to OG monk in sound for sure, requires a lot of amp power though. Never tried the 150 or 300 ohm version. I did buy the 300 ohm version but was so overwhelmed by Red Demon I just passed it on.


 
  
 Yep! That was an awesome review and I enjoyed reading it!
  
 I had the 400 ohm for a while, my biggest gripe was the overweighted bass part, and that cosmetically the cable will turn green. 
 New 400 ohm reportedly fixed those issues.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

chicken beer said:


> Was just curious if you've tried the 400欧 yet? I saw someone selling his 300欧 cheap on 闲鱼（chinese ebay），and really wish to know if I should buy it since I already have 400欧。


 
 I am afraid I have yet to try the 400Ohms yet. Currently there are a few versions of the 400 Ohms one from ”耳机工会“ and the other one from "*高阻耳机不黑". *
  
*Both are tuned in-house and they are somewhat different, though both drivers are produced by 虫哥。Unfortunately I busted my version 320Ohm v2 but I am currently enjoying my 320Ohm V1 very much (customed tuned by 虫哥 himself)*


----------



## haiku

chicken beer said:


> They are not yet on sale in the US...


 

 Do you know if they have a website or Facebook page? Thanks.


----------



## vapman

chicken beer said:


> Yep! That was an awesome review and I enjoyed reading it!
> 
> I had the 400 ohm for a while, my biggest gripe was the overweighted bass part, and that cosmetically the cable will turn green.
> New 400 ohm reportedly fixed those issues.


 

 I love when the cables go green but that's just me.
  
 The new one is black i think, so that won't be a problem?
  
 i love the overweighted bass - it made it a basshead worthy earbud for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Aside from that H180 has killer bass amper or unamped. great earbud.
  
  
*Protip for those interested in edimun: *get in line even if you're not immediately ready to buy. I hear they're setting up a dedicated factory to get these made faster. All rumors though but we may have something to do with the sudden surge in interest outside Indonesia.


----------



## chicken beer

audionewbi3 said:


> I am afraid I have yet to try the 400Ohms yet. Currently there are a few versions of the 400 Ohms one from ”耳机工会“ and the other one from "[COLOR=666666]*高阻耳机不黑
> ". *[/COLOR]
> 
> [COLOR=666666]*Both are tuned in-house and they are somewhat different, though both drivers are produced by 虫哥。Unfortunately I busted my version 320Ohm v2 but I am currently enjoying my 320Ohm V1 very much (customed tuned by 虫哥 himself)*[/COLOR]




Thanks~


----------



## chicken beer

New one still clear, but maybe they are s plated so ut won't turn green~

Yeah, green cable looks quite one of a kind~


----------



## chicken beer

vapman said:


> I love when the cables go green but that's just me.
> 
> The new one is black i think, so that won't be a problem?
> 
> ...


d

Gotta try the H180


----------



## chicken beer

haiku said:


> Do you know if they have a website or Facebook page? Thanks.




Will try to find one for you~


----------



## haiku

chicken beer said:


> Will try to find one for you~


 
  

 Thank You!


----------



## vapman

haiku said:


> Thank You!


 

 Sorry, been confusing myself switching between threads, but if you're talking about a facebook related to de'mun then look here
  
https://www.facebook.com/kandela.afifah
https://www.facebook.com/Demun-1712608572317586/?fref=ts
  
 If not, never mind


----------



## stilleh

vapman said:


> I love when the cables go green but that's just me.
> 
> The new one is black i think, so that won't be a problem?
> 
> ...




Also remember that it's Ramadan and therefor shipping will take a while.


----------



## vapman

stilleh said:


> Also remember that it's Ramadan and therefor shipping will take a while.


 

 Haha, i did wish him a happy ramadan and he said he'd be in touch as soon as the holiday was over.
  
 I'm super excited about this brand. I took a huge chance impulse spending over $200 on a bunch of stuff from a brand with no reputation around here and have not been let down once yet.


----------



## haiku

chicken beer said:


> Pleasure!!! By the way I heard the new seahf 400 ohms coming out recently, and latest words came they are phenomenal~


 

 I pulled the trigger on some Seahf LD-3.0 150Ohm earbuds. I first have to hear, if my Fiio X7 AM1 module is able to power them sufficiently, before I try 320/400 Ohms.


----------



## golov17

haiku said:


> I pulled the trigger on some Seahf LD-3.0 150Ohm earbuds. I first have to hear, if my Fiio X7 AM1 module is able to power them sufficiently, before I try 320/400 Ohms.


 hehe


----------



## ngoshawk

So....Edimun V3 or Red De'Mun?...I can only justify one...I really like the impressions given by @Golov and @vapman, but neither has both! As far as I know...

I like warmer sounding bud/IEM's, decent bass, controlled, not real whoopy on shrill piercing highs...

Or wait, and get both!

Thank you in advance.


----------



## golov17

will have to wait until I get the v3, to be compared with v2, but, frankly, I have all just enough v2 
...beautiful bass, vocals with a solid, no sibilance, smooth sound very musical, not the audiophile (catch fleas mastering, lol) just enjoying any music genres


----------



## thamasha69

golov17 said:


> will have to wait until I get the v3, to be compared with v2, but, frankly, I have all just enough v2
> ...beautiful bass, vocals with a solid, no sibilance, smooth sound very musical, not the audiophile (catch fleas mastering, lol) just enjoying any music genres


 

 Warm, smooth, no sibilance...sounds good with everything - that sounds perfect.


----------



## dearyon

ngoshawk said:


> So....Edimun V3 or Red De'Mun?...I can only justify one...I really like the impressions given by @Golov and @vapman, but neither has both! As far as I know...
> 
> I like warmer sounding bud/IEM's, decent bass, controlled, not real whoopy on shrill piercing highs...
> 
> ...


 
 Edimun V2/V3 vs. Red Demon, I really interested in that... we have to wait for someone to compare it. I'm sure sir Vapman or sir Golov will have both of them eventually


----------



## golov17

for ethical reasons, I will not have Reddemun, sorry


----------



## dearyon

golov17 said:


> for ethical reasons, I will not have Reddemun, sorry


 
 Okay sir, I understand, no problem 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 

 I should be the one who say sorry here >.<


----------



## Saoshyant

I feel like I missed something


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> I feel like I missed something


nothing, was not related to the topic of earbuds.


----------



## Saoshyant

golov17 said:


> nothing, was not related to the topic of earbuds.


 
 The only reason for my confusion is I've ordered the Red Demun


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> The only reason for my confusion is I've ordered the Red Demun


 it is good, more earbuds, good and different


----------



## dearyon

anyone here know how to use ear hook with foam on? or I only can use it without foam?
 I have a problem with Edifier 180/Red Demon housing, it fit well, but It will hurt a part of my ears in about an hour listening 
 have to use ear hook to avoid that problem

 Edit: never mind, I find a way. It's stupid but it's work.
 Now I have another problem, the bass is overwhelming...


----------



## Joy Boy

ngoshawk said:


> So....Edimun V3 or Red De'Mun?...I can only justify one...I really like the impressions given by @Golov and @vapman, but neither has both! As far as I know...
> 
> I like warmer sounding bud/IEM's, decent bass, controlled, not real whoopy on shrill piercing highs...
> 
> ...



Maybe i'll get both of them, the demo unit soon after ramadan holiday. I'll give a quick impression later. I hope it'll help someone here that interested in both of demun product.
But may be i won't decide wich one is better. Just personal impression based on subjective preference. So decide which is better by yourself


----------



## golov17

dearyon said:


> anyone here know how to use ear hook with foam on? or I only can use it without foam?
> I have a problem with Edifier 180/Red Demon housing, it fit well, but It will hurt a part of my ears in about an hour listening
> 
> have to use ear hook to avoid that problem
> ...


 http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up-update-april-17th-2016/4575#post_12577021


----------



## dearyon

golov17 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up-update-april-17th-2016/4575#post_12577021


 
 Thanks sir! much appreciated 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 doing the same thing just now and I don't like the overwhelming bass so I switched with rubber + donut foam + CIEMs wearing style and foola! I have the best fit and balance between bass, mid and high now. I am a happy man now.
 It is the first time I struggle to find the best fit for earbuds lol


----------



## vapman

Never be afraid to double foam!
  
 double foaming is great, and with the Monk+ style foams you can double foam and not make the sound too muffled, as those Monk+ foams really let all the sound through.
  
 I double foam or rubber ring + foam my H180/Demons.


----------



## vapman

dearyon said:


> Edimun V2/V3 vs. Red Demon, I really interested in that... we have to wait for someone to compare it. I'm sure sir Vapman or sir Golov will have both of them eventually


 

 Red Demon is NOT Edimun.
  
 I will have Edimun v3 to compare after Ramadan.


----------



## ZerkMeister

Just out of curiosity. What are some examples of wireless earbuds? 
All I see are iems and I am guessing it is because of the sounds outside and sealing.


----------



## golov17

zerkmeister said:


> Just out of curiosity. What are some examples of wireless earbuds?
> All I see are iems and I am guessing it is because of the sounds outside and sealing.


 Eforchina Bluedio I4


----------



## golov17

there is always plenty.. to choose from, lol


----------



## ZerkMeister

@golov17 You need this:
http://www.michaels.com/jewelry-tree-spinning-top/10230539.html#start=15
  
 combined with:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-pcs-Headphone-Earphone-Earbud-Silicone-Cable-Cord-Wrap-Winder-Organizer-Holder-Promotion/32580752505.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.1.0cXP8V&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_8,searchweb201602_4_10017_406_10040,searchweb201603_1&btsid=ad1c38e9-8965-4557-badd-1859c13adc62
  
 which is what I might do.

 Edit:
 This could work too:
http://www.michaels.com/darice-black-velvet-3-tier-ring-display/10230208.html


----------



## golov17

6Pcs Multipurpose Double holes Wire Cord Cable Drop Clips Ties USB Charger Holder Organizer With Adhesive Desk Tidy Wire
 http://s.aliexpress.com/m6BbueMz 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## music4mhell

At las ordered the Mojito


----------



## Tomasz2D

zerkmeister said:


> Just out of curiosity. What are some examples of wireless earbuds?
> All I see are iems and I am guessing it is because of the sounds outside and sealing.


 
  
  
 There are some choices actually. Starting with ultra-budget solutions available in Chinese online-shops like iTreasure SH-04 or B330 for about 6 to 7 USD to more expensive Sony SBH70. Personally I prefer to go semi-wireless with Bluetooth adaptors like Audio Technica AT-PHA50BT, Creative Labs Sound Blaster E3, Elecom LBT-PAR500AV, Samsung Level Link EO-RG920 or Sony SBH54. This way you can use with them any earbuds you like and you have higher quality radio transmission with AptX protocol. The reason wireless earbuds are not popular is the same why earbuds are not popular in general these days.


----------



## ZerkMeister

tomasz2d said:


> There are some choices actually. Starting with ultra-budget solutions available in Chinese online-shops like iTreasure SH-04 or B330 for about 6 to 7 USD to more expensive Sony SBH70. Personally I prefer to go semi-wireless with Bluetooth adaptors like Audio Technica AT-PHA50BT, Creative Labs Sound Blaster E3, Elecom LBT-PAR500AV, Samsung Level Link EO-RG920 or Sony SBH54. This way you can use with them any earbuds you like and you have higher quality radio transmission with AptX protocol. The reason wireless earbuds are not popular is the same why earbuds are not popular in general these days.


 
 Cool thanks. Yea but I suppose we are seeing a small emergence.


----------



## ZerkMeister

golov17 said:


> 6Pcs Multipurpose Double holes Wire Cord Cable Drop Clips Ties USB Charger Holder Organizer With Adhesive Desk Tidy Wire
> http://s.aliexpress.com/m6BbueMz
> (from AliExpress Android)


 
 Geez how do you know which is which lol?


----------



## golov17

zerkmeister said:


> Geez how do you know which is which lol?


 practice and experience, lol


----------



## luedriver

after a month of waiting, these came today

  
 I have to say thanks to golov17 for recommending me these, I was kinda surprised at how nice they sound out of the box, or out of the bag in this case, doesn't have the same bass slam as the apple earpods but they have decent bass, nice highs and mids too (although, I'm no expert), they don't have the detail of the monk + but they don't seem to smooth over the sound like the apple earpods
  
 amping these doesn't change the sound, even from my iphone they sounded good (use them at 6/16 volume and 8/16 for outside), they did sound a bit loud when I listened to my tape deck (but that's a different issue)
  
 I don't use any foams, never liked them or got used to using, although I did try them on a bit and did notice a slight change, compared to without
  
 nice out of your head sound as well,  some of the sound seemed to be coming from outside of the actual earbuds


----------



## golov17

luedriver said:


> after a month of waiting, these came today
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm glad you liked it


----------



## golov17

Try this  
Hot Qian25 In Ear Earphone Earbud Dynamic Flat Head Plug Earbud Bass HIFI Earphone Free Shipping
 http://s.aliexpress.com/FVb6byY7 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Questions:
  
 1.) Best cheap low-impedence warm earbuds?
 2.) Best high-end low-impedence warm earbuds?
 3.) Best earbuds with a mic/button controls?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Well just ordered TY Hi-Z HP-32, Creative Aurvana Air, and Ostry KC08 (and now I'm done buying earbuds for a long time; going to be listening heavily for the next few months; my wallet has taken quite the toll lol).

 Returning my Edifier H180's because they for some reason now sound really airy and recessed vocals. I don't see any damage in the cable but it is quite strange. Don't sound like they initially did at all. Besides, even though I like them, the shape actually hurts my ears with long listening sessions (which is why I probably won't get the Edimuns).


----------



## BloodyPenguin

So, I know that ClieOS posted up his thoughts on the MusicMaker/Toneking TO300 and they were not entirely favorable.  That said, I still had to get myself a pair.  Something about the MusicMaker earbuds, I MUST collect them all.
  
 I should have the TO300 in a few weeks and I will post up my impressions then.  
  
  
  
 _______________________________________________________________________
  
 Here is a random picture of the *Onn X5* vs *FiiO M3* (with the NoSounD Recessed in the background):
  

  
  
 Impressions of both DAPs can be found here:  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/780622/fiio-m3-ultra-portable-8g-64g-2-0-320-240-tft-50mw-flac-ape-aiff-in-line-control-ogg-mp3-aac-wma-24-hours-hifi-earbuds/1695#post_12699455
  
 --


----------



## Tomasz2D

tayyab pirzada said:


> (and now I'm done buying earbuds for a long time; going to be listening heavily for the next few months; my wallet has taken quite the toll lol).


 
  
 You would have to stop reading this forum first.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Oh, I forgot to mention, I also have a Remax RM-303 on order as well.  I love budget buds.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ..


----------



## golov17

Thank you Justin, your opinion about UI Onn, reminded me of my Colorfly ck4 +, great sounding, but very limited in the firmware of good governance, lol


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

tomasz2d said:


> You would have to stop reading this forum first.


 
 lol you are right


----------



## audio123

tayyab pirzada said:


> lol you are right


 
 reading is good


----------



## ngoshawk

golov17 said:


> there is always plenty.. to choose from, lol




That is one sexy lineup golov17! Oh my...


----------



## kiler

I imagine that is like at the entrance of his house, so everytime a guest enters he gets to pick one


----------



## fairx

And





kiler said:


> I imagine that is like at the entrance of his house, so everytime a guest enters he gets to pick one


and gets poisoned afterwards. Lol.


----------



## golov17

fairx said:


> And
> and gets poisoned afterwards. Lol.


 haha, I give for people little bit a lot


----------



## vapman

Was looking for some extra headset eatbuds to keep around the house.
  
 i'm too old school, mics on headphones is revolutionary to me, gotta pretend the address book on my phone isn't exciting...
  
 anyway check em. i found these for $2.50 locally a piece. blackberry branded so i said "what the heck", i have a BB so figured why not. plus the earbud shell looked suspiciously familiar
  
 not sure if they're clones/rebrands of something else? they are way way way better than the fiio em3, with the em3 at $10 and these at $2.50...
  
 actually enjoying listening to these straight off my phone. very few complaints. almost like it better than the remax just because it's a bit more musical. the mic on this is HUGE though haha.
  

  
  
  

  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/252272930574?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 Considering getting 2-3 of these as backups instead of backup remaxes. Eh, they're all $5 or less, i'll just get more of both


----------



## kurtextrem

The bass response on the Seaf 150 Ohm is huge, when I hear gun shots repeatedly I feel like the bud is moving up and down as well (like recoil) LOL
 but the Asura 2.0 is still my king in overall sound.


----------



## audio123

i feel like venturing into earbuds but not sure which one should i jump to from the vemonk?


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

audio123 said:


> i feel like venturing into earbuds but not sure which one should i jump to from the vemonk?


 
 Shozy Cyngus?


----------



## haiku

audio123 said:


> i feel like venturing into earbuds but not sure which one should i jump to from the vemonk?


 

 Why jump at all?


----------



## audio123

zombiewinegum said:


> Shozy Cyngus?


 
  


haiku said:


> Why jump at all?


 
 not sure what is an upgrade over vemonk for similar sound signature but better extension


----------



## haiku

audio123 said:


> not sure what is an upgrade over vemonk for similar sound signature but better extension


 

 Do you have a Monk or Monk+? Monk has better extension imo, and you can still get some on eBay. Cheaper than Cygnus, too.


----------



## audio123

haiku said:


> Do you have a Monk or Monk+? Monk has better extension imo, and you can still get some on eBay. Cheaper than Cygnus, too.


 

 i have both monk and monk+.
 i prefer the monk


----------



## haiku

kurtextrem said:


> The bass response on the Seaf 150 Ohm is huge, when I hear gun shots repeatedly I feel like the bud is moving up and down as well (like recoil) LOL
> but the Asura 2.0 is still my king in overall sound.


 

 Ordered the Seaf. Let´s see if it can stand it´s ground against the Monk.


----------



## Joy Boy

Soon i'll get Seahf 320ohm v.1 white cable (v1 has black braid and white straight cable).
I've ever had it before but i sold it. I consider it as one of my top 10 best buds. The sound really remind me of ve zen 1. And it's a rare and discontinued bud too.
I'll share my impression later.
Dark horse/ty hiz lover will love it, i guarantee


----------



## golov17

Ve Zen2.0 sound lovers can safely recommend Astrotec Lyra and Boarseman mx98s. Nice


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Original Monk with special cable and remote + mic. Get it while it lasts: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/231973727127


----------



## golov17

three budget earbuds, which play a much better than price and its worth a try every earbuds lovers: TY Hi-Z32, Qian25 & Boarseman k25s


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> three budget earbuds, which play a much better than price and its worth a try every earbuds lovers: TY Hi-Z32, Qian25 & Boarseman k25s


 
  
 Nice, I must try all three some day.


----------



## kurtextrem

audio123 said:


> not sure what is an upgrade over vemonk for similar sound signature but better extension


 
 Honestly, I'd say Asura 2.0 is the cheapest upgrade for Monk+ while keeping the VE signature


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> Nice, I must try all three some day.


this good


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

Do earbuds like these: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-New-Original-****-PK1-15mm-Driver-Speaker-Unit-With-Shell-MMCX-Connector-In-Ear-Earburd/32653345463.html use the actual PK1 driver or are they just trying to sound the same?


----------



## mebaali

With over 50 hours of usage, I am really liking my Philips SHE 3800 (thanks @golov17 for the suggestion and link).
  
 To my ears, these have better clarity and fit over Monk. (I know saying this is kinda blasphemy here) I find the latter to be very boomy while the former has much better overall clarity (and cheaper by 5 US$, paid just 3.21 US$ for Philips).
  
 Now, awaiting for the arrival of TY-HI Z32 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 (Edit: have also placed an order for Blackberry buds posted by @vapman)


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Are Astrotec Lyra good as Zen 2?


----------



## nihontoman

ok, just got TY Hi-Z 32 and well, they sound good. they are lush, not thin and definitely not lacking in anything acoustic. but, something is a bit off - somewhere in the highs, something is sounding kinda wrong...  also not that big of a soundstage...


----------



## vapman

mebaali said:


> With over 50 hours of usage, I am really liking my Philips SHE 3800 (thanks @golov17 for the suggestion and link).
> 
> To my ears, these have better clarity and fit over Monk. (I know saying this is kinda blasphemy here) I find the latter to be very boomy while the former has much better overall clarity (and cheaper by 5 US$, paid just 3.21 US$ for Philips).
> 
> ...


 

 They clearly said made in Indonesia (like my bMac! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and I know Blackberry is popular in other parts of the world so they shouldn't be too hard to find.
  
 what i'm curious is, the housing looks suspiciously familiar, i am curious what else it is i've seen that looks like those?
  
 PS Those philips looks exactly like an Edifier. where can you buy them?


----------



## vapman

kurtextrem said:


> The bass response on the Seaf 150 Ohm is huge, when I hear gun shots repeatedly I feel like the bud is moving up and down as well (like recoil) LOL
> but the Asura 2.0 is still my king in overall sound.


 

 anyone heard both seafh 150 and 400 ohm?
 curious if they're both as good at bass


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> anyone heard both seafh 150 and 400 ohm?
> curious if they're both as good at bass


both have good bass. 

For Philips link 
https://m.fasttech.com/products/0/10005987/1460600-philips-she3800-3-5mm-earphone


----------



## Saoshyant

zombiewinegum said:


> Do earbuds like these: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-New-Original-****-PK1-15mm-Driver-Speaker-Unit-With-Shell-MMCX-Connector-In-Ear-Earburd/32653345463.html use the actual PK1 driver or are they just trying to sound the same?




That earbud doesn't use the PK1 driver as far as I know. It's bass light with decent mids and highs, but didn't impress me. I'd use it for classical music.


----------



## notamethlab

I don't know if it had already been posted but there is a different option in the VE monk plus, it says MP Darth. I wonder if it's just the color or a different earbud. Regardless I ordered 2 pairs  

Oh and earlier I had posted that my monk plus weren't updating in tracking and turns out it was because VE's shipment was rejected by the shipper and will have to be sent via a different service.


----------



## vapman

notamethlab said:


> I don't know if it had already been posted but there is a different option in the VE monk plus, it says MP Darth. I wonder if it's just the color or a different earbud. Regardless I ordered 2 pairs
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 There is a monk thread but believe me I have owned every version of monk since the first.
  
 The only sound difference that ever occured was between monk and monk +.
  
 If monk+ darth sound different in any way i'll make a note of this.


----------



## vapman

That BlackBerry earbud has a weirdly similar sound to Monk.
  
 More distant vocals and mids, slightly echoey, but still musical?
  
 Better than i expected for $2.50 but i dont know if i would rather have Remax for $5.
  
 The mic is big and awkward on this lol.
  
 might recable one for fun, idk
  
 monk+, h180 still better
  
 red demon still best
  
 cant wait for edimun
  
 (i actually prefer h180 monk, not as good or balanced overall, but such better bass, lol.)


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> anyone heard both seafh 150 and 400 ohm?
> curious if they're both as good at bass



Seahf strong point is always in bass. Seahf 150 has rich bass but a little lack in control. Agressive but run over other sector. Never heard 400ohn. But you should try 320ohm v1. From 4 seahf series i've ever heard, it's the best. Baby zen v1


----------



## vapman

Whats the word on FAAAEAL 64 ohm?


----------



## CingKrab

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-Newest-Seahf-LD-4-0-High-Impedance-In-Ear-Earphone-400-ohms-Flat-Head-Plug/32694652430.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_8,searchweb201602_3_10037_10017_407_10033_406_10032_9999,searchweb201603_4&btsid=c4a7b7d1-1249-4fe3-b089-632fcfb6662c
  
 Wow we're up to LD 4.0 now!  3.0 had a rather short life...


----------



## vapman

cingkrab said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-Newest-Seahf-LD-4-0-High-Impedance-In-Ear-Earphone-400-ohms-Flat-Head-Plug/32694652430.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_8,searchweb201602_3_10037_10017_407_10033_406_10032_9999,searchweb201603_4&btsid=c4a7b7d1-1249-4fe3-b089-632fcfb6662c
> 
> Wow we're up to LD 4.0 now!  3.0 had a rather short life...


 

 Illl wait for them to stop cranking out a new version every 2 weeks before i get my next set...


----------



## golov17

cingkrab said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-Newest-Seahf-LD-4-0-High-Impedance-In-Ear-Earphone-400-ohms-Flat-Head-Plug/32694652430.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_8,searchweb201602_3_10037_10017_407_10033_406_10032_9999,searchweb201603_4&btsid=c4a7b7d1-1249-4fe3-b089-632fcfb6662c
> 
> Wow we're up to LD 4.0 now!  3.0 had a rather short life...


What


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> What





>





> ya something fishy is happening


----------



## golov17

https://mobile.twitter.com/hckexin/status/750735524843761665


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Anyone have any thoughts on the Audio-Technica ATH-EC707? I can't find many reviews for it


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> Anyone have any thoughts on the Audio-Technica ATH-EC707? I can't find many reviews for it


 because they do not deserve a lot of reviews


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

golov17 said:


> because they do not deserve a lot of reviews


 
 wow it's that bad of a bud? hmm...


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

@golov17 what can you tell me about Astrotec Lyra6?


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> @golov17
> what can you tell me about Astrotec Lyra6?


 Unfortunately, I hate the hooks, so I have a simple LYRA


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> wow it's that bad of a bud? hmm...


not bad, but..
"Audio Technica CM707 - Warm and thick to almost veil. Would have been great if it has better treble extension."
ClieOS


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

golov17 said:


> Unfortunately, I hate the hooks, so I have a simple LYRA


 
 Is sound different from simple Lyra vs. Lyra6?
  
 What can you tell me about the simple Lyra?


----------



## golov17

I never heard Lyra6, sorry


----------



## Danneq

tayyab pirzada said:


> Is sound different from simple Lyra vs. Lyra6?
> 
> What can you tell me about the simple Lyra?


 


 I haven't heard Lyra6 either but apparently bass has been enhanced a bit compard to Lyra:

 "Looking at LYRA 6, I assume it shares a lot of similarities with its original LYRA predecessor, though I have been told that a filter and a driver tuning was changed (with slightly enhanced bass)."
http://androidforums.com/threads/review-of-astrotec-lyra-6-earbuds-w-lots-of-pics.887778/

 My personal impression of Lyra is that it has got a warmer type of sound and is far from being sharp or sibilant. You can call the sound a bit "dark" compared to other top end earbuds, but I do not think that makes Lyra less capable. It has got great synergy with slightly sharper sounding sources. Bass is good on Lyra so I do not understand why they would enhance it on Lyra6...


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

danneq said:


> I haven't heard Lyra6 either but apparently bass has been enhanced a bit compard to Lyra:
> 
> "Looking at LYRA 6, I assume it shares a lot of similarities with its original LYRA predecessor, though I have been told that a filter and a driver tuning was changed (with slightly enhanced bass)."
> http://androidforums.com/threads/review-of-astrotec-lyra-6-earbuds-w-lots-of-pics.887778/
> ...


 
 What do you think of Sennheiser MX 985 in comparison?


----------



## vapman

Recomended rearbud tips for less fancy earbuds?
  
 ] ove monk+ foam on all my nice buds.... but  on exrecise travel theyt get all ripped up and loes...
  
 neever harppede with ld style monk foams.
  
 anywhre to get those?
 should i buy hieege?


----------



## Tadamn

golov17 said:


> I never heard Lyra6, sorry


 

 It's in the market.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Get Heigl


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> Get Heigl


 

 which ones best for
 monk
 cygnus?


----------



## nihontoman

So, after listening the TY HI-Z 32 some more, the initial impression of it sounding kinda wrong in the high frequency range (high hats for example) has gone. I had this impression compared to my desktop speakers, but now they sound alike in that regard, so it must be something changing in the sound and not me adjusting to it.
  
 as for the sound overall, I really like it. it is thick enough, lush and not forced in any way


----------



## Danneq

tayyab pirzada said:


> What do you think of Sennheiser MX 985 in comparison?


 

 Well, I prefer MX985. It is less dark sounding and more detailed. Overall Lyra is more laid back. But I'll keep both my MX985 and Lyra since I like 'em both.


----------



## kvad

vapman said:


> Whats the word on FAAAEAL 64 ohm?


 
  
 Been very happy with mine - pleasant and entertaining. Got the Faaeal 64 ohm, TY Hi-Z 150 ohm and the SeaHf 3.0 400 ohm recently. To my untrained ears the Faaeal and the Hi-Z are fairly close, while the SeaHf has the recessed mids you pointed out in your review - prefer the first two. Running the SeaHf with donuts while the other two with full covers (green and grey covers with the Faaeal was a refreshing change from the usual red/blue/black : )


----------



## ClieOS

If any of you are wondering between Fareal 64ohm and 300ohm - just get the 64ohm as the 300ohm isn't exactly better.
  
 Also, it should be Fareal, not Faaeal - the R and A font are slightly different on the earbuds.


----------



## Fabi

OMG TY Hi-Z 400S !


----------



## nihontoman

kvad said:


> Been very happy with mine - pleasant and entertaining. Got the Faaeal 64 ohm, TY Hi-Z 150 ohm and the SeaHf 3.0 400 ohm recently. To my untrained ears the Faaeal and the Hi-Z are fairly close, while the SeaHf has the recessed mids you pointed out in your review - prefer the first two. Running the SeaHf with donuts while the other two with full covers (green and grey covers with the Faaeal was a refreshing change from the usual red/blue/black : )


 
  
 I'm waiting my Faaeal 64 ohm version to arrive. how would you describe the sound?


clieos said:


> If any of you is wondering between Fareal 64ohm and 300ohm - just get the 64ohm as the 300ohm isn't exactly better.


 
  
  
 good to see they are holding their own gainst more expensive buds


----------



## golov17

fabi said:


> OMG TY Hi-Z 400S ! :eek:


TY Hi-Z HP320M


----------



## nihontoman

golov17 said:


> TY Hi-Z HP320M


 
  
  
 link doesn't work


----------



## golov17

nihontoman said:


> link doesn't work


only for mobile devices


----------



## golov17

Work? 
https://world.taobao.com/item/528763...1774.55.CiAQqC


----------



## nihontoman

golov17 said:


> Work?
> https://world.taobao.com/item/528763...1774.55.CiAQqC


 
 still not...​


----------



## golov17

nihontoman said:


> still not...​


 you do not have a smartphone ??


----------



## audio123

golov17 said:


> you do not have a smartphone ??


 

 link is invalid btw and i have a smartphone


----------



## nihontoman

golov17 said:


> you do not have a smartphone ??


 

   mine broke about two weeks ago and I'm waiting for Xiaomi Redmi note 3 pro to come from aliexpress  until then, I'm using some old nokia on which I could count all the pixels on the display in about 5 minutes if I wanted to  so yeah, it is not THAT smart


----------



## Fabi

audio123 said:


> link is invalid btw and i have a smartphone



The link doesn't work only when you click from HF. When I click on it from notification in my mail, the link works. Or just copy and paste the link in browser.


----------



## Tomasz2D

nihontoman said:


> link doesn't work


 
 Here for copy / paste https://world.taobao.com/item/528763539106.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.YOcQKN#detail


----------



## Fabi

golov17 said:


> TY Hi-Z HP320M


 
 Do you know what it is different from HP320?


----------



## golov17

fabi said:


> Do you know what it is different from HP320?


nope, but man said, that this copy Zen1.0


----------



## nihontoman

well, the cable is different for sure


----------



## Fabi

golov17 said:


> nope, but man said, that this copy Zen1.0


 
 Okay, that is very interesting !


----------



## golov17

nihontoman said:


> well, the cable is different for sure


really?


----------



## fairx

Sorry guys I'm kinda blurred with the HP320M

Is it something special? Zen 1 qualities? 

https://world.taobao.com/item/528763539106.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.YOcQKN#detail


----------



## golov17

fairx said:


> Sorry guys I'm kinda blurred with the HP320M
> 
> Is it something special? Zen 1 qualities?
> 
> https://world.taobao.com/item/528763539106.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.YOcQKN#detail


 Not sure, but I was told this


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Is there Earbuds Anonymous (EA)?  I have "*golov17 Syndrom*e" and just for the life of me can not stop buying earbuds.
  
 I have a bunch more buds coming, which I really don't need.  We need to setup a support group.  Maybe start knitting instead...  
  
 --


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> Is there Earbuds Anonymous (EA)?  I have "*golov17
> Syndrom*e" and just for the life of me can not stop buying earbuds.
> 
> I have a bunch more buds coming, which I really don't need.  We need to setup a support group.  Maybe start knitting instead...
> ...


haha, knitting cables for earbuds?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> haha, knitting cables for earbuds?


 

  

  
  
 --


----------



## Tomasz2D

golov17 said:


> haha, knitting cables for earbuds?


 
 Nitting nice and warm earbuds pouches.


----------



## Saoshyant

I'm listening to a modified Monk right now, and everything I like about the Monk is just better. Vocals are more forward, treble has more sparkle, instrument detail and seperation is increased. Sub bass is roughly the same, which I'm happy about too. It's amazing what some talented modders can accomplish.


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> I'm listening to a modified Monk right now, and everything I like about the Monk is just better. Vocals are more forward, treble has more sparkle, instrument detail and seperation is increased. Sub bass is roughly the same, which I'm happy about too. It's amazing what some talented modders can accomplish.


 yup, Edimun nice modded


----------



## Saoshyant

Different group actually, but really impressive so far. I will try to post pics of it soon as well as impressions.


----------



## audio123

last set yuin pk1
  
 https://www.massdrop.com/buy/yuin-pk1


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> last set yuin pk1
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/yuin-pk1


 YUIN PK1 Earphones High Fidelity Quality Professional Earbuds HIFI stereo audio Earphone for xiaomi apple iphone6 
 http://s.aliexpress.com/RbAVjIvQ 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## audio123

golov17 said:


> YUIN PK1 Earphones High Fidelity Quality Professional Earbuds HIFI stereo audio Earphone for xiaomi apple iphone6
> http://s.aliexpress.com/RbAVjIvQ
> (from AliExpress Android)


 

 massdrop is cheaper


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> massdrop is cheaper


two bucks?


----------



## Joy Boy

golov17 said:


> nope, but man said, that this copy Zen1.0




When i see the pic, it's so similar with seahf 320 v1. The only difference is the mark, ty-hiz and seahf. Cable and build is identical. And if it's true (same driver just different brand), then i'll second your opinion. They're pretty much like zen 1 (baby zen??)


----------



## golov17

joy boy said:


> When i see the pic, it's so similar with seahf 320 v1. The only difference is the mark, ty-hiz and seahf. Cable and build is identical. And if it's true (same driver just different brand), then i'll second your opinion. They're pretty much like zen 1 (baby zen??)


i don't know, not tried them


----------



## audio123

golov17 said:


> two bucks?


thats 40% of the price of monk+


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> thats 40% of the price of monk+


 haha, nice  surrender


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I have golov syndrome too. I keep buying buds lol.


----------



## vapman

I bought a couple more today myself for fun!'
  
 The Blackberry buds aren't as good as monks or h180 but they shouldn't be at half the price of each not even considering the mic yet. That said i listened to them for about 6 hours last night and legitimately enjoyed it.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Just ordered Sennheiser MX 985. Ok now I'm officially done.


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> Just ordered Sennheiser MX 985. *Ok now I'm officially done.*


 

 Hhahahahhahahahhahhhaha

 *breathes*
  
 hahahahaahahahhaha
  
 Ok but really nobody here's gonna give you crap when you realize you aren't actually offically done yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Much respect
  
 What's your full list of earbuds now anyway? got em listed in your profile?
 I don't list mine there because i change my lineup too frequently.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> Hhahahahhahahahhahhhaha
> 
> *breathes*
> 
> ...


 


  - Sennheiser MX 985
 - Rose Technology Mojito
 - Shozy Cygnus
 - Creative Aurvana Air
 - Ostry KC08
 - DIY Dual Dynamic Matrix with PowerBeats Driver
 - TY Hi-Z HP-32
 - VE Monk, VE Monk with braided cable and mic, and VE Monk Plus
 - Awei ES10
 - Apple EarPods
  
 Waiting for all of them in the mail. Only have the Shozy Cygnus and Apple EarPods right now.


----------



## vapman

My recommendation to you is don't buy any other earbuds for months!
 and only do two or three at a time, you'll go crazy trying to compare that many at once


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> My recommendation to you is don't buy any other earbuds for months!
> and only do two or three at a time, you'll go crazy trying to compare that many at once


 
 Agreed. For about a year I will just be listening, slowly and taking my time. And posting impressions/reviews here of course. And photos.


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> Agreed. For about a year I will just be listening, slowly and taking my time. And posting impressions/reviews here of course. And photos.


 
 What sources do you have bro?
  
 I have a feeling you're gonna find your favorite buds quick, then realize which need amping, and then start messing with different DAPs or sources before you get into more buds.
  
 The 985 and the Moito... jesus. That's a wallop right there. not to mention everything else 
  
 And learn to use the classifieds for the ones you don't like! LOL


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> What sources do you have bro?
> 
> I have a feeling you're gonna find your favorite buds quick, then realize which need amping, and then start messing with different DAPs or sources before you get into more buds.
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah I will probably be selling quite a few.
  
 Right now I suck at sources. Only use an Ipod Nano 7th gen. I was looking into DAP's but not sure which one is inexpensive but good quality (i.e. better than Ipod). Thinking Fiio M3.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Any reccomendations of affordable DAC's which will make a considerable difference from Ipod Nano in sound quality? PS. all my headphones so far are low-impedence, if that matters for anything.


----------



## rggz

tayyab pirzada said:


> Any reccomendations of affordable DAC's which will make a considerable difference from Ipod Nano in sound quality? PS. all my headphones so far are low-impedence, if that matters for anything.


 
 Best bang for the buck IMO:
 http://hifimediy.com/Sabre-9018-DAC
  
 If you want something more "elegant" Schiit Modi 2 is a really good DAC but you'll need an amp like Schiit Magni.


----------



## ld100

tayyab pirzada said:


> Just ordered Sennheiser MX 985. Ok now I'm officially done.




Brand new? From where?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

ld100 said:


> Brand new? From where?


 
 Amazon


----------



## ld100

tayyab pirzada said:


> Amazon




Really? Do you have a link?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

ld100 said:


> Really? Do you have a link?


 
 https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-MX-985-In-Ear-Headphones/dp/B00D5P6RNG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1467928183&sr=8-1&keywords=sennheiser+mx985


----------



## vapman

@Tayyab Pirzada
  
 Here is my recommendation to you as a 10+ year member here.
  
 Source matters the most.
  
 DAC matters most, then amp.
  
 A great DAC and amp can even make a $5 headphone sound heavenly.
  
 My recommendation: research DAPs find one you like . I love the screw out of my modded iPod Mini, Kenwood G608 and most of all Xduoo X3. I keep sansa clip around too.
  
 Get a nice computer USB DAC. you can get a sabre one for around $70 or a Schiit that uses a AKM4396 or similar for under $100. ODAC also an excellent choice.
  
 You dont need to spend much on a source. Get decent stuff and you'll be happy 
  
 If you get a dac without an amp, bMac is a really really good choice... but so is the Cayin C5.
  


tayyab pirzada said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-MX-985-In-Ear-Headphones/dp/B00D5P6RNG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1467928183&sr=8-1&keywords=sennheiser+mx985


 

 I'm holding onto my wallet so hard right now god damn it....
  
 I just bought two more rare IEMs.....


----------



## ld100

vapman said:


> @Tayyab Pirzada
> 
> Here is my recommendation to you as a 10+ year member here.
> 
> ...


 
  
 WHat about Dragon Fly? I see good things about it written everywhere...


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> @Tayyab Pirzada
> 
> Here is my recommendation to you as a 10+ year member here.
> 
> ...


 
 So should I get a dedicated music player with DAC embedded in it (like Fiio M3) or just a USB DAC for my laptop? I'm a little confused.
  
 The only good source I have at the moment is my Ipod Nano 7th gen. I use my laptop too though (which has pretty good sound).
  
 What do you reccomend? I'm really confused when it comes to DAC's.


----------



## vapman

ld100 said:


> WHat about Dragon Fly? I see good things about it written everywhere...


 

 I have also heard good things. But I am can not recommend anyting i've never seen, heard or tried.
  
 I'd love to try one. I've never heard anyone knock it, if that's what counts.
  
  
 But I uee a 13 year old DAC that has the same chips the Modi 2 does and guess what... it sounds just like a Modi 2


----------



## Saoshyant

http://www.encore-av.com/main/products/mdsd-detail is another option for a computer dac/amp.


----------



## kinetic758

tayyab pirzada said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-MX-985-In-Ear-Headphones/dp/B00D5P6RNG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1467928183&sr=8-1&keywords=sennheiser+mx985




Hi all. New user here. I've also been looking at those Sennheiser mx985's on Amazon. Curious as to their legitimacy: the seller appears to be new and has 16 in stock. I understand that these are commonly faked? 

In any case, let us know if they're the real deal when you get them and I'll be the next one to pull the trigger!


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

What's the best DAC for upto $200?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

If I have a DAC, is an amp absolutely essential as well?


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> So should I get a dedicated music player with DAC embedded in it (like Fiio M3) or just a USB DAC for my laptop? I'm a little confused.
> 
> The only good source I have at the moment is my Ipod Nano 7th gen. I use my laptop too though (which has pretty good sound).
> 
> What do you reccomend? I'm really confused when it comes to DAC's.


 

 Feel free to pm or post in the recommendations thread if you want.
  
 If you ask me, I would ask you if you use portable or desktop more.
  
 If you use portable more, considering getting a phone compatible DAC. If you don't want to mess with phones as a media play (it drives me screw nuts) get a DAP.
  
 Sansa Clip costs nothing and is reliable. Xduoo X3 has 2x microSD and proven and reliable although has some bugs. But everyone will be a fan of their own DAP. I don't spend more than $100 on my DAP ever and I love it.
  
 If you get an iPod with a LOD you can use any amp.
  
 Most DAPs don't also work as DAC on a laptop like that FIIO so i would give up on looking for a device that does both standalone DAP and DAC when plugged in.
  
 i would say if you do most listeing on the laptop, get a DAC like ODAC or Modi 2 or something similar. I haven't tested some other budget ones like Hifimediy Sabre Dac or Soundblaster E1 but they might be good.
  


tayyab pirzada said:


> What's the best DAC for upto $200?


 
  
 Feelfree to PM me if you want, but this is a quetsino for http://www.head-fi.org/f/7840/introductions-help-and-recommendations not here.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> Feel free to pm or post in the recommendations thread if you want.
> 
> If you ask me, I would ask you if you use portable or desktop more.
> 
> ...


 
 Honestly most of my listening is portable. I use my iPod mostly. But the 7th generation has a lightning connector instead of 30 pin. 
  
 So should I just get a lightning to 30-pin cable and then get an LOD and finally an Amp that will work on a 30-pin ipod cable? Or should I just get another dedicated music player portable DAC?


----------



## Saoshyant

For $200, you could consider something like the Fiio X3ii which will give you a dap as well as the ability to use it as a dac/amp for your laptop.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

saoshyant said:


> For $200, you could consider something like the Fiio X3ii which will give you a dap as well as the ability to use it as a dac/amp for your laptop.


 
 would the Fiio X3ii be considerably an improvement from my Ipod in terms of sound quality?
  
 and would I need an amp as well on top of it? If so, any reccomendations?


----------



## ZerkMeister

vapman said:


> @Tayyab Pirzada
> 
> Here is my recommendation to you as a 10+ year member here.
> 
> ...


 
 Do you know if its worth getting the Cayin Spark vs the normal C5?


----------



## vapman

zerkmeister said:


> Do you know if its worth getting the Cayin Spark vs the normal C5?


 

 Wish i could tell you, never heard it, but C5 has a near perfect reputation and 800+800mW (2 separate channels at 800mW, not 400 to each) so that's pretty hard to beat.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I think I will just get the Fiio X3ii. Is it fine by itself or is an amp necessary?


----------



## audio123

tayyab pirzada said:


> I think I will just get the Fiio X3ii. Is it fine by itself or is an amp necessary?


 
 its fine by itself. if u are driving cans, get an amp


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Anything better than Fiio X3 for upto $200 though?


----------



## audio123

tayyab pirzada said:


> Anything better than Fiio X3 for upto $200 though?


 
 u can consider shanling m2. 
  
 there is a discount if im not wrong.
  
 http://www.lendmeurears.com/shanling-m2/
  
 i am an ex-user of fiio x3ii.
  
 personally, i prefer m2. @nmatheis and me like the m2 a lot


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> Anything better than Fiio X3 for upto $200 though?


 
 This should really not be in earbuds thread but

 xduoo x3
  
 can be had for just under $100
  
 many fiio x3 users have upgrded to Xduoo x3 and been happier
  
 I went from fiio x1 to duoo x3.
  
 But check your options and see what you like, if USB DAC support is important to you, if line out is important to you or the built in amp is all you want to use.


----------



## audio123

vapman said:


> This should really not be in earbuds thread but
> 
> xduoo x3
> 
> ...


 
 i wouldnt say x3 is an upgrade to x3


----------



## vapman

Clever one audio, but i thin it's clear when I was talking about fiio x3 and xduoo x3.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I think I decided on the Astell & Kern AK JR. Slightly pricey I know but I like it the best for its portability and sound factor.


----------



## music4mhell

tayyab pirzada said:


> I think I decided on the Astell & Kern AK JR. Slightly pricey I know but I like it the best for its portability and sound factor.


 
 Try CHord Mojo + any mobile, you can njoy Tidal/spotify etc on the go


----------



## haiku

music4mhell said:


> Try CHord Mojo + any mobile, you can njoy Tidal/spotify etc on the go


 

 At least. I can´t believe what I´m reading here. Spending hundreds of dollars on earbuds and then listening through mid-fi gear. Lord, give me strength....


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Try CHord Mojo + any mobile, you can njoy Tidal/spotify etc on the go
> ...


 
 Chord Mojo is a midfier gear ?
 It's creator sayd it's as par with $10K DAC in performance.
  
 Please elaborate why you said it's mid-fi.
  
 From my testing, I confirm that Chord Mojo is way ahead than any $1000 DAC. (Like Fiio X7)


----------



## haiku

music4mhell said:


> Chord Mojo is a midfier gear ?
> It's creator sayd it's as par with $10K DAC in performance.
> 
> Please elaborate why you said it's mid-fi.
> ...


 

 I didn´t mean the Mojo.


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Chord Mojo is a midfier gear ?
> ...


 
 Upps, sorry , i misunderstood


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I ended up with the Astell & Kern AK Jr. This should suit my needs.


----------



## nihontoman

tayyab pirzada said:


> I think I will just get the Fiio X3ii. Is it fine by itself or is an amp necessary?


 

  I got iBasso DX50 by itself and use it as a portable source as well as desktop dac. it has a pretty good AMP section and I honestly never had any need for more powerful amplifier, that being said, I don't have any crazy high impedance (300ohm +) gear, but seeing as some of the stuff you are waiting for is just like that, I'd get a decent DAP that can also function as a desktop DAC (I'd go for fiio X3 for budget variant) and get adesctop class amp (magni 2). you could use your DAP on the go without it being too cumbersome (anything will be more cumbersome compared to ipod nano, except for sansa clip or the likes) and use it as a DAC at home in tandem with the more powerful amplifier for those really hard to drive phones 
  
  
 also, having that much good earphones means you need good clean, powerful source. driving ****ty phones with high end source won't give you much better sound and on the other hand - driving awesome high end phones from ****ty sources (ipod nano is one in this case, simply because it lacks power) will also be almost pointless. sometimes, you might not even get satisfactory volume 
  
  
  
 back to the thread:



 TY HI-Z 32 can't be this good for the price. honestly I'm not willing to accept that a 5$ bud can sound as good as 100$ iems and 200-ish$ cans :/ I'm pretty sure I like it more than my Sennheiser HD598, but a new toy syndrome might be at play here...


----------



## nihontoman

tayyab pirzada said:


> I ended up with the Astell & Kern AK Jr. This should suit my needs.


 
 congrats. droolworthy little DAP  now get a desktop amp and you're set


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> I ended up with the Astell & Kern AK Jr. This should suit my needs.


 http://www.head-fi.org/t/811910/new-iriver-ak70


----------



## elmoel

golov17 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/811910/new-iriver-ak70


 
 hi golov, how can i upload pic in this forum?
  
 i would like to share pic the crow earbud


----------



## golov17

elmoel said:


> hi golov, how can i upload pic in this forum?
> 
> i would like to share pic the crow earbud


----------



## Danneq

kinetic758 said:


> Hi all. New user here. I've also been looking at those Sennheiser mx985's on Amazon. Curious as to their legitimacy: the seller appears to be new and has 16 in stock. I understand that these are commonly faked?
> 
> In any case, let us know if they're the real deal when you get them and I'll be the next one to pull the trigger!


 


 I have never ever heard of a faked MX980 or MX985. As I understand it, these models was too limited to be of interest for those who make counterfaits...


----------



## elmoel

golov17 said:


>






thanks uncle golov 

just receive today. " the crow" earbud which is made from old ve monk

@golov17 @vapman u both u should try it, i can give impression, but @joyboy will give impression soon as he made order for this earbud too




note: the crow made by mr haekal from samarinda, same city where bengkel macro and demun place..


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Just received the *REMAX RM-303* today.
  
 Out of the box, they seem to have a slight U shaped signature.  Decent Sub-Bass Extension, Slightly Recessed Mids and Crisp Detailed Highs. 
  
 I will see if a proper burn-in changes these characteristics.  So far the little REMAX buds have a fun and unique sound. 
  
  
  
 I also took a few quick photos of them:


  

  
 --


----------



## vapman

elmoel said:


> thanks uncle golov
> 
> just receive today. " the crow" earbud which is made from old ve monk
> 
> ...


 
  
 Quote:nicebut intereted and how much $?


----------



## elmoel

saoshyant said:


> I'm listening to a modified Monk right now, and everything I like about the Monk is just better. Vocals are more forward, treble has more sparkle, instrument detail and seperation is increased. Sub bass is roughly the same, which I'm happy about too. It's amazing what some talented modders can accomplish.


 wow "the crow" already in US?

it is a great mod monk earbud


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Speaking of VE Monk modifications, I ordered this original Monk recabled recently: 
  
 http://www.ebay.ca/itm/231973727127?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 I got the version with mic and button control. There is another non-mic version also (for same price).


----------



## elmoel

indonesian price about 45 usd, u should made purchase this earbud, maybe can shipping together with edimun v3, because they both in the same city


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Here's the modded Monk without mic: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/231973712349


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

so would AK Jr be able to drive high impedence buds?


----------



## Tomasz2D

music4mhell said:


> Try CHord Mojo + any mobile, you can njoy Tidal/spotify etc on the go


 
 In fact this is very good tip. @Tayyab Pirzada - if you want to use your iTunes libery or Apple Music you just need this cable Lightning to USB Camera Adapter and iDevice that supports USB host to output to external DAC/amp. Read more here in Apple section http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=838 If you use external DAC it is not that important what DAP you use. When you buy external DAC just make sure it can send "self power" info to your iDevice.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

tomasz2d said:


> In fact this is very good tip. @Tayyab Pirzada - if you want to use your iTunes libery or Apple Music you just need this cable Lightning to USB Camera Adapter and iDevice that supports USB host to output to external DAC/amp. Read more here in Apple section http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=838 If you use external DAC it is not that important what DAP you use. When you buy external DAC just make sure it can send "self power" info to your iDevice.


 
 Chord Mojo seems really expensive. Last I checked it was 800USD


----------



## Tomasz2D

tayyab pirzada said:


> Chord Mojo seems really expensive. Last I checked it was 800USD


 
 Yes, it is expensive, I just think you can skip DAP and focus more on DAC/amp that can work with your iDevice if access to iTunes / Apple Music is important for you. There are many DACs that will work for this kind of audio setup and are cheaper.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

tomasz2d said:


> Yes, it is expensive, I just think you can skip DAP and focus more on DAC/amp that can work with your iDevice if access to iTunes / Apple Music is important for you. There are many DACs that will work for this kind of audio setup and are cheaper.


 
 To be honest I value portability as well. I don't want to be carrying a DAC everywhere, and still want high-quality sound. Which is why I ended up getting AK Jr.


----------



## Tomasz2D

tayyab pirzada said:


> To be honest I value portability as well. I don't want to be carrying a DAC everywhere, and still want high-quality sound. Which is why I ended up getting AK Jr.


 
 Sure, whatever works for YOU.


----------



## Tadamn

tayyab pirzada said:


> Chord Mojo seems really expensive. Last I checked it was 800USD


 

 That's probably because of its Dynamic Range.


----------



## Saoshyant

It's the earbud I sent you a message about. Haven't had the time to compare it to Red Demun yet, I'll try to get to that soon.



elmoel said:


> wow "the crow" already in US?
> 
> it is a great mod monk earbud




Yep, it arrived on Wednesday. Mine appears to have a different jack than yours as mine uses a viablue jack, but I might be seeing it incorrectly in the picture.


----------



## elmoel

saoshyant said:


> It's the earbud I sent you a message about. Haven't had the time to compare it to Red Demun yet, I'll try to get to that soon.
> Yep, it arrived on Wednesday. Mine appears to have a different jack than yours as mine uses a viablue jack, but I might be seeing it incorrectly in the picture.




owh its viablue jack for prototype i think.. yes it is different, mine using mps jack.. its by request.. thats why only cost approx 45usd


----------



## Saoshyant

@elmoel On mine, they covered up the L/R markings with silver paint, so I'm kind of guessing which side is which as there are no other indicators.  Cable choice is quite lovely, although it is a little microphonic.  It doesn't have the stiffness the Red Demun has, which I'm happy about.  I actually had to change to a rubber ring tip to keep the Demun in my ears.


----------



## leobigfield

tayyab pirzada said:


> To be honest I value portability as well. I don't want to be carrying a DAC everywhere, and still want high-quality sound. Which is why I ended up getting AK Jr.




I never heard the AK but i aways read a lot of complain about it's sluggish ui and not so good bang for the buck factor. Have you considered some research on the likes of Cayin N5, Shanling M2/M3 (shanlings are on sale now at LMUER), iBasso DX80, Luxury & Precision L3? Also there is the new Hifiman Supermini being released soon, it seems really good!


----------



## Saoshyant

Actually, Penon has the Supermini in stock.  Hmm...  I should read up on that one as I"m really considering a balanced Dap.
  
 And for something a bit more on topic:  The Ritmix RT-500 & Rose Mojito pairing works out quite nicely.  The inexpensive dap, which based on initial impressions feels like a worthy successor to the Kogan, has a decent handle on detail-oriented listening, and is very inexpensive.


----------



## kvad

tayyab pirzada said:


> Chord Mojo seems really expensive. Last I checked it was 800USD


 
  
 It's a good time to buy from the UK if that's an option for you. It goes for around £330 ex. VAT.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

leobigfield said:


> I never heard the AK but i aways read a lot of complain about it's sluggish ui and not so good bang for the buck factor. Have you considered some research on the likes of Cayin N5, Shanling M2/M3 (shanlings are on sale now at LMUER), iBasso DX80, Luxury & Precision L3? Also there is the new Hifiman Supermini being released soon, it seems really good!


 
 I did actually, and I liked the AK best even with the sluggish UI. It's the most portable with still high-end sound.


----------



## kvad

nihontoman said:


> I'm waiting my Faaeal 64 ohm version to arrive. how would you describe the sound?


 
  
 Did a bit of testing against the TY Hi-Z and Tomahawk. It's warmer than both of them, more bass, slightly recessed voices (but nothing like the SeaHf). Missing out on the airiness of the Tomahawk. Still smooth and enjoyable - more so for electronic music than vocals. This is all with full foam on all of them. Something tells me the Faaeal could benefit from donuts or the Monk+ thin foam (naked seem slightly too bright for me). Take all I say with a huge pinch of salt though, not very experienced at describing sound. Only thing I can say for sure is that I enjoy them : )


----------



## kinetic758

danneq said:


> I have never ever heard of a faked MX980 or MX985. As I understand it, these models was too limited to be of interest for those who make counterfaits...





From searching this thread:

Page 65:


clieos said:


> Be very worry about MX985 / 980 from China, or any close proximity of China. Do note that it is one of the most counterfeited models in Sennheiser line-up after IE8/80/800 in China.




Page 66:


jincuteguy said:


> But as of right now, you can't buy the MX985 anymore, only fake ones on Amazon and Ebay.  So it's already too late now if you're looking for the MX985.
> I don't see anywhere else that still selling a legit MX985 anymore.




It appears all sellers on Amazon are from South Korea. Slightly strange which is why I didn't purchase. It makes sense that these would be counterfeited since the margin on these is pretty high.


----------



## effsandoval

How does the Monk+ compare to MX985?


----------



## ClieOS

effsandoval said:


> How does the Monk+ compare to MX985?


 
  
 It will be like comparing a Toyota Prius to a Ferrari 488 Spider - both are really good for what they are designed for, but otherwise not actually comparable besides the fact that they are both cars.


----------



## Tomasz2D

kinetic758 said:


> It appears all sellers on Amazon are from South Korea. Slightly strange which is why I didn't purchase. It makes sense that these would be counterfeited since the margin on these is pretty high.


 
  
 I've got my pair of MX985 from South Korean eBay - Gmarket for 175 USD. It arrived with guarantee card filled up as can be seen on the attached pictures. If this is "replica" then this is a bloody good "replica". I just hope it plays better then original


----------



## ld100

tomasz2d said:


> I've got my pair of MX985 from South Korean eBay - Gmarket for 175 USD. It arrived with guarantee card filled up as can be seen on the attached pictures. If this is "replica" then this is a bloody good "replica". I just hope it plays better then original


 
  
  
 Looks legit. But I seen some Hermes bags that look identical to real ones. You never know this days. It just too good for $200 bucks to be a fake...


----------



## Danneq

These must be made in the same factory that made the originals. The housings are customized and not easy to imitate. I've never seen any info on faked MX980/985 except here on Head fi. However I have found info on faked IE8xx IEMs.


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> I've got my pair of MX985 from South Korean eBay - Gmarket for 175 USD. It arrived with guarantee card filled up as can be seen on the attached pictures. If this is "replica" then this is a bloody good "replica". I just hope it plays better then original




The box looks like my second hand pair bought in Sweden (where the guy selling them had bought them in a legitimate Swedish physical store a few years earlier).


----------



## kinetic758

danneq said:


> These must be made in the same factory that made the originals. The housings are customized and not easy to imitate. I've never seen any info on faked MX980/985 except here on Head fi. However I have found info on faked IE8xx IEMs.


 
  
 Interesting.  Not entirely sure why a few people have posted about there being MX980/985 fakes.  Has anyone out there actually seen a fake one in person?
  
 I really am tempted to purchase here, but not sure about the seller: they have no feedback and say they have *17 in stock*.... could that really be??


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

Thinking of selling my o2 and getting the Run About+ to drive my Zen 2.0. Anyone here got opinions on the RA+ with the Zen?


----------



## haiku

zombiewinegum said:


> Thinking of selling my o2 and getting the Run About+ to drive my Zen 2.0. Anyone here got opinions on the RA+ with the Zen?


 

 Better go straight to RA 2.0.


----------



## haiku

kinetic758 said:


> Interesting.  Not entirely sure why a few people have posted about there being MX980/985 fakes.  Has anyone out there actually seen a fake one in person?
> 
> I really am tempted to purchase here, but not sure about the seller: they have no feedback and say they have *17 in stock*.... could that really be??


 

 I think they are fakes. I looked from time to time and the number of earbuds they had varied widely.


----------



## Danneq

kinetic758 said:


> Interesting.  Not entirely sure why a few people have posted about there being MX980/985 fakes.  Has anyone out there actually seen a fake one in person?
> 
> I really am tempted to purchase here, but not sure about the seller: they have no feedback and say they have *17 in stock*.... could that really be??




You could keep a look at Ebay Germany or UK. I recently bought a pair of OMX980 (earhook version) from Ebay UK for only around £75 with shipping. According to the seller they were returns. A few years ago I bought a pair of MX980 for around €80 on Ebay Germany after my pair that I bought in Sweden broke and I got the money back after returning them. Had no doubts of any of them being fake. But perhaps you should think twice before buying from Asia...


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kinetic758 said:


> From searching this thread:
> 
> Page 65:
> Page 66:
> It appears all sellers on Amazon are from South Korea. Slightly strange which is why I didn't purchase. It makes sense that these would be counterfeited since the margin on these is pretty high.


 
 If it helps, it says "100% Genuine and Original Packing" by the seller and they have really good rating


----------



## vapman

zombiewinegum said:


> Thinking of selling my o2 and getting the Run About+ to drive my Zen 2.0. Anyone here got opinions on the RA+ with the Zen?


 

 Never heard a RA, wish I have, I can tell you bMac 3CH MK2 rocks, but I can't compare it to the RA.
 both are similar form factor and design.


----------



## stilleh

zombiewinegum said:


> Thinking of selling my o2 and getting the Run About+ to drive my Zen 2.0. Anyone here got opinions on the RA+ with the Zen?






RA 2.0 here. Must have been made for the Zen. KK (guy who builds them) must be genius. I have told Lee to give him a raise or atleast let him out in the sun once in a while...


----------



## vapman

stilleh said:


> RA 2.0 here. Must have been made for the Zen. KK (guy who builds them) must be genius. I have told Lee to give him a raise or atleast let him out in the sun once in a while...


 
 I abasolutely have to know how this compares to the Bengkel Macro bMac
  
 Both 9v rechargable or DC powered, both rollable opamps, same size...


----------



## springbay

vapman said:


> I abasolutely have to know how this compares to the Bengkel Macro bMac
> 
> Both 9v rechargable or DC powered, both rollable opamps, same size...


 
  
 RA2 uses two 9V batteries, it is the RAplus that uses one 9V battery.


----------



## vapman

springbay said:


> RA2 uses two 9V batteries, it is the RAplus that uses one 9V battery.


 
  
 thanks for the clarification.
  
  i guess i would have to compare to a RA plus
  
 unless bMac makes a 2x 9v design with more output power @irgunawan





  
  
 btw, my $2 Blackberry earbuds sound almost as good (identical sound signature) to my friends Cygnus.... What?
 maybe i need to recable one of these...
  
 What cable do you guys get for IEM/earbud cabling, those of you who do, btw?


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> thanks for the clarification.
> 
> i guess i would have to compare to a RA plus
> 
> ...


 3.5mm Silver plated high quality DIY weave Headphone cable Earphone audio cable repair upgrade wire Without MIC
 http://s.aliexpress.com/7JzyMzYn 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> 3.5mm Silver plated high quality DIY weave Headphone cable Earphone audio cable repair upgrade wire Without MIC
> http://s.aliexpress.com/7JzyMzYn
> (from AliExpress Android)


 

 i like it! ty


----------



## irgunawan

vapman said:


> thanks for the clarification.
> 
> i guess i would have to compare to a RA plus
> 
> ...


 
@vapman on the next generations bMac amps, of course i will. It so interesting to built.


----------



## nihontoman

kvad said:


> Did a bit of testing against the TY Hi-Z and Tomahawk. It's warmer than both of them, more bass, slightly recessed voices (but nothing like the SeaHf). Missing out on the airiness of the Tomahawk. Still smooth and enjoyable - more so for electronic music than vocals. This is all with full foam on all of them. Something tells me the Faaeal could benefit from donuts or the Monk+ thin foam (naked seem slightly too bright for me). Take all I say with a huge pinch of salt though, not very experienced at describing sound. Only thing I can say for sure is that I enjoy them : )


 
  
  
 thyanks. appreciated. mine will be here on Monday, can't wait to test them out


----------



## vapman

Sorry to bother again about this. But i know i have seen this shape earbud somewhere else. What is it?


----------



## vapman

irgunawan said:


> @vapman on the next generations bMac amps, of course i will. It so interesting to built.


 

 I can not wait omg
 I will be first customer.
 I love bMAc 3CH MK2 more than C5, polaris,  iFi ican, any other amp i have.
 It's magical.
  
 Thank you for convincing me to get these.
  
  
 edit:
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/VJJB-Original-C1S-Earphone-with-Mic-Remote-Control-Earbuds-Headset-for-iPhone-Samsung-Sony-LG-Mobile/32508678928.html?s=p
  
 These look like E100...?


----------



## kinetic758

danneq said:


> You could keep a look at Ebay Germany or UK. I recently bought a pair of OMX980 (earhook version) from Ebay UK for only around £75 with shipping. According to the seller they were returns. A few years ago I bought a pair of MX980 for around €80 on Ebay Germany after my pair that I bought in Sweden broke and I got the money back after returning them. Had no doubts of any of them being fake. But perhaps you should think twice before buying from Asia...




Thanks for this. I'll have a look. I really do want to see how these sound.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Sorry to bother again about this. But i know i have seen this shape earbud somewhere else. What is it?


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


>


 
 thanks!!!!
  i knew i saw them!
 wha ar they?


----------



## golov17

This my DIY with some drivers and cables and rubber rings and housing from Taobao


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> This my DIY with some drivers and cables and rubber rings and housing from Taobao


 

 nice, which driver
 ?
 maybe we have same driver


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> nice, which driver
> 
> ?
> maybe we have same driver :eek:


similar from AE? 
Original Japan Teardown Earphone Speaker Diy Bass 16ohm PK2 Style Disassembly Hifi Headphone unit
 http://s.aliexpress.com/MZnEZFfe 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## golov17

epic pic from the owner from Thailand, OMG!


----------



## rggz

golov17 said:


> epic pic from the owner from Thailand, OMG!


 
  
 Really cool vintage stuff! Btw, do you have listened the "Zen 300" from Thai or those drivers from Ali (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/mx500-driver-15-4mm-speaker-unit-300ohms-send-mx500-shell/32599219535.html) if yes, worth it?


----------



## golov17

rggz said:


> Really cool vintage stuff! Btw, do you have listened the "Zen 300" from Thai or those drivers from Ali (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/mx500-driver-15-4mm-speaker-unit-300ohms-send-mx500-shell/32599219535.html) if yes, worth it?


 Some guys from russian forum bought them, I don't have this


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> epic pic from the owner from Thailand, OMG!


 
 Chan-o-cha can hold a government since 2014 AND enjpy earbuds?
 Best world leader IMO.
 I just hope he has an amp/dac hahaha


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> Some guys from russian forum bought them, I don't have this


 

 i can compare to real mx500
 but i dont want to spend the $18


----------



## Tadamn

vapman said:


> i can compare to real mx500
> but i dont want to spend the $18


 

 It will be worth it.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Chan-o-cha can hold a government since 2014 AND enjpy earbuds?
> Best world leader IMO.
> I just hope he has an amp/dac hahaha


 Of course, a lot of rare MD, and voice recorders


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> Of course, a lot of rare MD, and voice recorders


 

 i love MD!!!
 i have so much more respect now lololo


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

If only shipping for stuff happened quicker...here I am with my Shozy Cygnus and iPod Nano hoping my AK Jr and Rose Mojito will arrive...


----------



## Fabi

golov17 said:


> epic pic from the owner from Thailand, OMG!



Oy oy oy, this is a pair of aiwa v99.. I almost bought a pair of d9 a few years ago.


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> If only shipping for stuff happened quicker...here I am with my Shozy Cygnus and iPod Nano hoping my AK Jr and Rose Mojito will arrive...


 

 Do a LOT of listeining with the Nano and Cygnus. the AK Jr will show up, you will never use the Mojito with the nano, and while you use the AK Jr and Mojito you wil go DAC shopping or shopping for a different DAC
  
 My predictions... I am a fortune teller 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I bought cable to recable one of these blackberry earbuds. THey look just like @golov17 DIY earbuds but in white inetad of black... which makes sense for smartphone earbuds... where'd you get yours?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> Do a LOT of listeining with the Nano and Cygnus. the AK Jr will show up, you will never use the Mojito with the nano, and while you use the AK Jr and Mojito you wil go DAC shopping or shopping for a different DAC
> 
> My predictions... I am a fortune teller
> 
> ...


 
 lol you are probably right. I will be researching DAC's hard real soon I expect.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> I bought cable to recable one of these blackberry earbuds. THey look just like @golov17
> DIY earbuds but in white inetad of black... which makes sense for smartphone earbuds... where'd you get yours?


 http://www.dx.com/p/keenion-kdm-e003-stereo-bass-in-ear-earphones-w-volume-control-microphone-black-light-grey-295625#.V4DOU98ZFFs


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> http://www.dx.com/p/keenion-kdm-e003-stereo-bass-in-ear-earphones-w-volume-control-microphone-black-light-grey-295625#.V4DOU98ZFFs


 

 you bought from DX?
 lol, so it took 5 years to show up?


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> you bought from DX?
> lol, so it took 5 years to show up?


I get a lot from different places, and I find it hard to remember what is what and where, lol


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> If any of you are wondering between Fareal 64ohm and 300ohm - just get the 64ohm as the 300ohm isn't exactly better.
> 
> Also, it should be Fareal, not Faaeal - the R and A font are slightly different on the earbuds.


any pics logo, please


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Hey everyone,
  
 For what it's worth, I just created a petition for Astell & Kern to make a new firmware update ASAP for the AK Jr. to once and for all solve the lag issue. Please sign it and share it. It's better than doing nothing I guess.
  
https://www.change.org/p/astell-kern-astell-kern-provide-ak-jr-with-firmware-update-asap?recruiter=10944278&utm_source=share_for_starters&utm_medium=copyLink
  
 P.S. I also tweeted the link to the petition directly to their company's Twitter account, so they will have seen it hopefully


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> For what it's worth, I just created a petition for Astell & Kern to make a new firmware update ASAP for the AK Jr. to once and for all solve the lag issue. Please sign it and share it. It's better than doing nothing I guess.
> 
> ...


you contacted with Alex An?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

golov17 said:


> you contacted with Alex An?


 
 Can you message me Alex An's Facebook URL? I can't find Alex on Facebook...


----------



## audio123

yuin pk3 is on massdrop
  
 https://www.massdrop.com/buy/yuin-pk3


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> Can you message me Alex An's Facebook URL? I can't find Alex on Facebook...


 https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000854347138&tsid=0.6508065559901297&source=typeahead


----------



## audio123

@golov17 is yuin pk2 a good upgrade over vemonk/monk+ ?


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> @golov17
> is yuin pk2 a good upgrade over vemonk/monk+ ?


 is difficult to answer unequivocally, they have a different signature sound, the size of the driver and the resistance, maybe better buy Cygnus, and even better Edimun. IMHO


----------



## audio123

golov17 said:


> is difficult to answer unequivocally, they have a different signature sound, the size of the driver and the resistance, maybe better buy Cygnus, and even better Edimun. IMHO


 





 thanks a lot for your suggestion!


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Cygnus and Edimun are both good. I just can't stand the Edifier housing for my ears. They hurt with long listening sessions. So I returned my Edifiers and am not sure that I will get Edimun due to this reason. Cygnus is however the most comfortable bud I've ever listened to. I love it.


----------



## kinetic758

Assuming price is not a factor, what are considered the best earbuds for use WITHOUT an amplifier? I intend to use these at work, plugged into my phone (Galaxy S6). 

I currently have a Cygnus and MrZ Ting on order. 

I've read through much of this thread, but I know some of these earbuds are hard to find now and/or need amplification. Thanks in advance.


----------



## golov17

kinetic758 said:


> Assuming price is not a factor, what are considered the best earbuds for use WITHOUT an amplifier? I intend to use these at work, plugged into my phone (Galaxy S6).
> 
> I currently have a Cygnus and MrZ Ting on order.
> 
> I've read through much of this thread, but I know some of these earbuds are hard to find now and/or need amplification. Thanks in advance.


Edimun 32 Ohm, very nice without amp, IMHO


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kinetic758 said:


> Assuming price is not a factor, what are considered the best earbuds for use WITHOUT an amplifier? I intend to use these at work, plugged into my phone (Galaxy S6).
> 
> I currently have a Cygnus and MrZ Ting on order.
> 
> I've read through much of this thread, but I know some of these earbuds are hard to find now and/or need amplification. Thanks in advance.


 
 Best earbuds without an amplifier means you would have to look for earbuds that are low-impedence and can be driven without use of an amp.
  
 "Best" depends on your preferred sound signature. I don't know myself since I still have to test many that I have ordered, but based on what I've heard, the best warm low-impedence earbuds would probably be Sennheiser MX985 while the best cold low-impedence earbuds would probably be the Rose Technology Mojito. And the "warmest" (but not "best warm") earbuds with most sub-bass that are low-impedence (although earbuds in general lack sub-bass compared to IEM's) would probably to my knowledge be the Ostry KC08. The "coldest" low-impedence earbud I am not sure. 
  
 Everything is relative of course, and based on subjective preference though.
  
 The above reccomendations are assuming price is not a factor, since I have listed some really pricey buds...


----------



## kinetic758

golov17 said:


> Edimun 32 Ohm, very nice without amp, IMHO




Thank you. I will do some research on these!


----------



## kinetic758

tayyab pirzada said:


> Best earbuds without an amplifier means you would have to look for earbuds that are low-impedence and can be driven without use of an amp.
> 
> "Best" depends on your preferred sound signature. I don't know myself since I still have to test many that I have ordered, but based on what I've heard, the best warm low-impedence earbuds would probably be Sennheiser MX985 while the best cold low-impedence earbuds would probably be the Rose Technology Mojito. And the "warmest" (but not "best warm") earbuds with most sub-bass that are low-impedence (although earbuds in general lack sub-bass compared to IEM's) would probably to my knowledge be the Ostry KC08. The "coldest" low-impedence earbud I am not sure.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the recommendations. I tend to like a sound signature that's slightly North of neutral (touch of warmth). This is for my 2 channel, non-earphone setup, but I'm assuming the same would apply for earbuds.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kinetic758 said:


> Thanks for the recommendations. I tend to like a sound signature that's slightly North of neutral (touch of warmth). This is for my 2 channel, non-earphone setup, but I'm assuming the same would apply for earbuds.


 
 Then you will probably love the Rose Mojito, although it is quite expensive, if you're into neutral sound. If touch of warmth is what you're after, Edimun or Sennheiser MX985 are great. I personally am not into the housing of the Edimun though (it hurts my ears after a while), but to each their own.


----------



## kvad

Quote: 





golov17 said:


> any pics logo, please


 

  
 ... or maybe it's FRAERL : ) There is a difference there, but how to interpret one as more of an A or an R I do not know.


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

kvad said:


> ... or maybe it's FRAERL : ) There is a difference there, but how to interpret one as more of an A or an R I do not know.


 
 How do they sound? I have a thing for transparent housings lol


----------



## kurtextrem

audio123 said:


> yuin pk3 is on massdrop
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/yuin-pk3


 
 I hate you... another bud to hear lol


----------



## vapman

kvad said:


> ... or maybe it's FRAERL : ) There is a difference there, but how to interpret one as more of an A or an R I do not know.


 
 can you quickly compare to other earbuds you have?


----------



## Joy Boy

elmoel said:


> thanks uncle golov
> 
> just receive today. " the crow" earbud which is made from old ve monk
> 
> ...



I'll get mine around a week later,then i'll share some impression. The builder stated that it tuned special for vocal lover. And i really curious to know how old monk can be tuned for vocal. Other bud with same price that will come is tunes audio bud and asti bud. All tuned for vocal.
And i hope edimun v3 and red demon demo unit will arrive soon. And still wait for seahf 320ohm v1 too




kinetic758 said:


> Assuming price is not a factor, what are considered the best earbuds for use WITHOUT an amplifier? I intend to use these at work, plugged into my phone (Galaxy S6).
> 
> I currently have a Cygnus and MrZ Ting on order.
> 
> I've read through much of this thread, but I know some of these earbuds are hard to find now and/or need amplification. Thanks in advance.



Sennheiser mx985 is a great choice. But in my collection, the best but for direct drive is Blox Be7. Love the airiness and live-like staging


----------



## Joy Boy

Is it just me that feel fareal bud has pretty much same sound sign with seahf/ty-hix bud? Are they come from the same factory?
And for seahf 64ohm (transparent housing in picture above), it has so much bass quantity but a bit lack of control and laidback vocal. Crisp treble but narrow soundstage. Lack of both width and depth. Even after 50hrs burn. Good for EDM but not with other genre, IMO


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

So I ended up getting the Fiio E12A headphone amp. This is my first amp...I'm new to the audiophile stuff. Apparently paired with AK Jr it sounds great.


----------



## golov17

Some pics from ELI


----------



## vapman

Cable looks kinda liek de'mun cable but black?


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman said:


> Cable looks kinda liek de'mun cable but black?




The Demun cable is far more stiff.


----------



## kinetic758

tayyab pirzada said:


> Then you will probably love the Rose Mojito, although it is quite expensive, if you're into neutral sound. If touch of warmth is what you're after, Edimun or Sennheiser MX985 are great. I personally am not into the housing of the Edimun though (it hurts my ears after a while), but to each their own.


 
  
 The MX985 is definitely on my radar.  Did you order from J.J.S. on Amazon?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kinetic758 said:


> The MX985 is definitely on my radar.  Did you order from J.J.S. on Amazon?




Yes


----------



## kvad

zombiewinegum said:


> How do they sound? I have a thing for transparent housings lol


 
  
 To my (inexperienced) ears they've got a warm, pleasant sound, engaging with enough bass for my taste, and no harshness in the upper tones. Voices are a bit recessed though.
  


vapman said:


> can you quickly compare to other earbuds you have?


 
  
 I did a quick comparison to the TY Hi-Z and the Tomahawk a few pages back if that's of any help.
  


joy boy said:


> Is it just me that feel fareal bud has pretty much same sound sign with seahf/ty-hix bud? Are they come from the same factory?
> And for seahf 64ohm (transparent housing in picture above), it has so much bass quantity but a bit lack of control and laidback vocal. Crisp treble but narrow soundstage. Lack of both width and depth. Even after 50hrs burn. Good for EDM but not with other genre, IMO


 
  
ClieOS mentioned some thousand posts ago that there was some connection between at least SeaHf and TY Hi-Z.


----------



## Danneq

tayyab pirzada said:


> So I ended up getting the Fiio E12A headphone amp. This is my first amp...I'm new to the audiophile stuff. Apparently paired with AK Jr it sounds great.


 

 Haha! You have to stop soon! I've been a member of Head fi since 2010 and into earbuds and audiophile stuff since about 2009 or so. But you are catching up with me after a few weeks here!


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

danneq said:


> Haha! You have to stop soon! I've been a member of Head fi since 2010 and into earbuds and audiophile stuff since about 2009 or so. But you are catching up with me after a few weeks here!  :tongue_smile:




Lol I stopped...for now


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

Noticed the TY Hi-Z HP400s is on aliexpress now. http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-TY-Hi-Z-Earbud-HP150-150ohm-HP320-320ohm-HP400-400ohm-HP400s-400ohm-HiFi/519064_32696016408.html


----------



## mochill

Have one coming^^


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

mochill said:


> Have one coming^^


 
 nice! Lets hope it's good  I keep on getting tempted to get a new pair of earbuds but then I listen to my Zen 2.0s again and remember ho amazing they are.


----------



## kinetic758

tayyab pirzada said:


> Yes




Thanks. Let us know how it goes. If you have a good experience, I may go with the same seller.


----------



## ld100

kinetic758 said:


> Thanks. Let us know how it goes. If you have a good experience, I may go with the same seller.


 
  
 I would love to know if those are real!


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kinetic758 said:


> Thanks. Let us know how it goes. If you have a good experience, I may go with the same seller.


 
 Will do, when they arrive.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

ld100 said:


> I would love to know if those are real!


 
 I'm fairly certain they are real.


----------



## ld100

tayyab pirzada said:


> I'm fairly certain they are real.


 
  
 Very tempting!


----------



## vapman

2nd set already here... how so fast?!


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> 2nd set already here... how so fast?!


e-packet?


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> e-packet?


 
  


golov17 said:


> e-packet?


 
 yeah, the ebay one with free epacket
 order date Jul 02, 2016
  
 i can't decide to recable or not


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> yeah, the ebay one with free epacket
> order date Jul 02, 2016
> 
> i can't decide to recable or not


 why? Norm cable


----------



## dearyon

Short Red Demun vs. Tomahawk
 High > Red Demun more detailed, Tomahawk roll-off faster. Red Demun is not as grainy as Tomahawk.
 Mid > Red Demun less peaky on high note (but still peaky for me in some song), a tad more warm, but slightly less clarity than Tomahawk
 Low > Red Demun have more controlled lows than Tomahawk without losing the impact. More natural in a way where Tomahawk sometimes push the bass forward too far (especially drum's bass). But in my ears Tomahawk have a bit more sub-bass than Red Demun.
 staging > Red Demun a bit more space between instrument and better 3D imaging. Every music that I listen just flow better with Red Demun than Tomahawk.

 Take a note that this review come from a newbie and I have very tricky fit with Red Demun but perfect fit with Tomahawk. And this review come from someone who listen through a smartphone, not a proper DAP. Maybe Tomahawk/red Demun will get better when I play through proper source/amped. I don't know.

 But as much as I like Red Demun I decided to give it to someone since I cannot bear the hurt I got on my ears when listen to it for too long. I don't know fitting can be such a turn off.
 Now, I have kinda strict rules of housing. Only accept Monk/Yuin/Tomahawk type of housing for now.


----------



## vapman

dearyon said:


> But as much as I like Red Demun I decided to give it to someone since I cannot bear the hurt I got on my ears when listen to it for too long. I don't know fitting can be such a turn off.
> Now, I have kinda strict rules of housing. Only accept Monk/Yuin/Tomahawk type of housing for now.


 
 Nice mini review. It is true Red Demon is actually fairly bass light. at least compared to H180 or whatever it's based on.
  
 The Red Demon does have a little bit of a weird shape and its very picky about fit. However what i did was double up on foams. 2 foams on each earbud. I couldn't get them to stay in at first and now they stay in and bass is improved.
  
 If you still hate the fit by no means should you force yourself to use it though.


----------



## Tadamn

vapman said:


> 2nd set already here... how so fast?!


 
 What's your opinion on RM-501?


----------



## vapman

tadamn said:


> What's your opinion on RM-501?


 

 never heard it, sorry


----------



## ClieOS

kvad said:


> ... or maybe it's FRAERL : ) There is a difference there, but how to interpret one as more of an A or an R I do not know.


 
  
 Just talked to the manufacturer a moment ago - apparently the official name is FARERL


----------



## vapman

clieos said:


> Just talked to the manufacturer a moment ago - apparently the official name is FARERL


 

 LOL. so NONE of us got it right.


----------



## Alex CY

clieos said:


> Just talked to the manufacturer a moment ago - apparently the official name is FARERL


 


 ?


----------



## Danneq

FRRERL?


----------



## ClieOS

F A R E R L
  
 Doesn't quite make sense to me as well, but that's what he said.


----------



## luedriver

I have the monk+, philips she3800, and apple earpods, (among others) would the yuin pk3 be a good addition to my collection?
  
 its about 40aud on ebay,
  
 (if its not fake, don't know why they would be, but it doesn't hurt to be cautious [xiaomi piston 2.0])


----------



## Alex CY

I was trying identify the font, but it looks like custom made logo


----------



## luedriver

alex cy said:


> ?


 
 anyone can see that the first and the last "A" look similar, thus it should be FAREAL, but maybe its just a typo


----------



## ClieOS

luedriver said:


> I have the monk+, philips she3800, and apple earpods, (among others) would the yuin pk3 be a good addition to my collection?
> 
> its about 40aud on ebay,
> 
> (if its not fake, don't know why they would be, but it doesn't hurt to be cautious [xiaomi piston 2.0])


 
  
 Nothing wrong with PK3, but I'll suggest spending just a bit for a MrZ / Music Maker Tomahawk instead for a more noticeable SQ jump.


----------



## kurtextrem

luedriver said:


> I have the monk+, philips she3800, and apple earpods, (among others) would the yuin pk3 be a good addition to my collection?
> 
> its about 40aud on ebay,
> 
> (if its not fake, don't know why they would be, but it doesn't hurt to be cautious [xiaomi piston 2.0])


 
 https://www.massdrop.com/buy/yuin-pk3


----------



## luedriver

kurtextrem said:


> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/yuin-pk3


 
 in aud its a bit over $42 (with delivery) so basically the same, even with the "mass drop" in price


----------



## luedriver

clieos said:


> Nothing wrong with PK3, but I'll suggest spending just a bit for a MrZ / Music Maker Tomahawk instead for a more noticeable SQ jump.


 
  
  
 how do they differ?
  
 OP stats:
  
 "13.Yuin PK3 - Detail, fairly balanced and pretty good bass impact. Lively presentation."
  
 and
  
*MusicMaker / Toneking Ting Full-Metal* - The baby MX985 with a more laid back and less immersive soundstage. A very good all-arounder.
*MusicMaker / Toneking Tomahawk* - Similar tuning to Ting but more forward, slightly grainy treble but more dynamic and fun.
  
  
but something tells me that these are not the earbuds you are referring to...
  
or maybe it is


----------



## golov17

luedriver said:


> I have the monk+, philips she3800, and apple earpods, (among others) would the yuin pk3 be a good addition to my collection?
> 
> its about 40aud on ebay,
> 
> (if its not fake, don't know why they would be, but it doesn't hurt to be cautious [xiaomi piston 2.0])


Aliexpress


----------



## ClieOS

luedriver said:


> how do they differ?


 
  
 Beyond that Tomahawk is better sounding than PK3, differ as in?


----------



## MRK1

I just bought the JiuShao E300 as they were the closest one to the Baldoor E100 on ClieOS list that weren't too expensive. Maybe I'll post a review when I get them, there doesn't seem to be many reviews of them. Anyway, how would you compare them to other popular bang-for-the-bucks buds like the Monk or the E100?


----------



## kinetic758

clieos said:


> Beyond that Tomahawk is better sounding than PK3, differ as in?




I have a MrZ Ting on order. Compared to the MX985, what would I be missing out on? Is it just the slightly laid back presentation and soundstage on the Ting that makes it different?


----------



## luedriver

golov17 said:


> Aliexpress


 
 no matter where you look the price will almost always be the same, ebay, aliexpress, massdrop, etc.. I guess its good business to know how much what you are selling is selling for...


----------



## luedriver

clieos said:


> Beyond that Tomahawk is better sounding than PK3, differ as in?


 
  
  
 idk, I read a lot of mixed feelings about tomahawks here, love or hate, or aren't comfortable, they cost a bit under 60 aud on aliexpress for "black diamon z" (whatever that means)
  
  
 whereas I haven't heard anything bad on the yuin pk3, only that people suggest not buying them to something else


----------



## Rizky Octayudha

Damn
 Just got my edimun and bmac 3chmkII
 it rocks!!


----------



## vapman

luedriver said:


> idk, I read a lot of mixed feelings about tomahawks here, love or hate, or aren't comfortable, they cost a bit under 60 aud on aliexpress for "black diamon z" (whatever that means)
> 
> 
> whereas I haven't heard anything bad on the yuin pk3, only that people suggest not buying them to something else


 

 yuin pk is not bad at all.
 it was one of the very very few highend earbuds you could get 10 years ago.
 yuin pk has a distinct sound though and is unlikely to be anyone's do-it-all earbud.
 if you like how tomahawk sounds, that's a do-it-all earbud.
 my do-it-all is monk+


----------



## Tomasz2D

mrk1 said:


> I just bought the JiuShao E300 as they were the closest one to the Baldoor E100 on ClieOS list that weren't too expensive. Maybe I'll post a review when I get them, there doesn't seem to be many reviews of them. Anyway, how would you compare them to other popular bang-for-the-bucks buds like the Monk or the E100?


 
  
 My pair of JiuShao E300 is at least 3 levels below Monk and I consider them as bad earbuds. I think JiuShao E600 are Monk level earbuds or maybe slightly above with some attributes. E100 would be 1 level below Monk.


----------



## ld100

vapman said:


> yuin pk is not bad at all.
> it was one of the very very few highend earbuds you could get 10 years ago.
> yuin pk has a distinct sound though and is unlikely to be anyone's do-it-all earbud.
> if you like how tomahawk sounds, that's a do-it-all earbud.
> my do-it-all is monk+


 
  
 "if you like how tomahawk sounds, that's a do-it-all earbud"
  
 I got those few weeks ago, and while it not an Apple stock by far, it is seriously lacking for me personally. Maybe what I got is not 100% perfect. I have to say Monk+ even is a better choice...


----------



## vapman

ld100 said:


> "if you like how tomahawk sounds, that's a do-it-all earbud"
> 
> I got those few weeks ago, and while it not an Apple stock by far, it is seriously lacking for me personally. Maybe what I got is not 100% perfect. I have to say Monk+ even is a better choice...


 

 I agree. I'm one of the ones who hated the tomahawk almost immediately.
  
 I probably use my monk+ and H180 more than than anything else.
  
 I can't wait for Edimun v3. Red Demon is great but not sure it's a do-it-all earbud.


----------



## ClieOS

kinetic758 said:


> I have a MrZ Ting on order. Compared to the MX985, what would I be missing out on? Is it just the slightly laid back presentation and soundstage on the Ting that makes it different?


 
  
 A little bit of everything. Think of MX985 as grander sounding on all aspect.
  


luedriver said:


> idk, I read a lot of mixed feelings about tomahawks here, love or hate, or aren't comfortable, they cost a bit under 60 aud on aliexpress for "black diamon z" (whatever that means)
> 
> 
> whereas I haven't heard anything bad on the yuin pk3, only that people suggest not buying them to something else


 
  
 Again, nothing wrong with PK3. If there is any fault to speak of, it is that it is an older model and there are better sounding choice out there.
  


ld100 said:


> "if you like how tomahawk sounds, that's a do-it-all earbud"
> 
> I got those few weeks ago, and while it not an Apple stock by far, it is seriously lacking for me personally. Maybe what I got is not 100% perfect. I have to say Monk+ even is a better choice...


 
  
 ...or maybe your listening preference doesn't lineup with others? Just because it is the public opinion doesn't make it the right opinion on personal level.


----------



## vapman

clieos said:


> A little bit of everything. Think of MX985 as grander sounding on all aspect.
> 
> 
> *Again, nothing wrong with PK3. If there is any fault to speak of, it is that it is an older model and there are better sounding choice out there.*
> ...


 
 This is what I was trying to say, but you said it better


----------



## Tomasz2D

kinetic758 said:


> I have a MrZ Ting on order. Compared to the MX985, what would I be missing out on? Is it just the slightly laid back presentation and soundstage on the Ting that makes it different?


 
 My fake MX 985 - sound, soundstage everything nicely balanced - reminds of big stereo speakers setup. You know that equalizer presets like rock, pop, jazz? Ok, turn on "pop" preset on MX 985 an you are in Ting territory. Both Tomahawk and Ting sounds have some smaller speakers qualities. A little bit boxy plus add dry and harsh upper-mids in Tomahawk. Just not for everybody or not for all music genres.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

tomasz2d said:


> My fake MX 985 - sound, soundstage everything nicly balanced - reminds of big stereo speakers setup. You know that equalizer presets like rock, pop, jazz? Ok, turn on "pop" preset on MX 985 an you are in Ting territory. Both Tomahawk and Ting sounds have some smaller speakers qualities. A little bit boxy plus add dry and harsh upper-mids in Tomahawk. Just not for everybody or not for all music genres.




How do you know they're fake? Or are you being sarcastic lol


----------



## dearyon

tomasz2d said:


> My fake MX 985 - sound, soundstage everything nicly balanced - reminds of big stereo speakers setup. You know that equalizer presets like rock, pop, jazz? Ok, turn on "pop" preset on MX 985 an you are in Ting territory. Both Tomahawk and Ting sounds have some smaller speakers qualities. A little bit boxy plus add dry and harsh upper-mids in Tomahawk. Just not for everybody or not for all music genres.


 
 Agree on Tomahawk having a dry and piercing upper-mids. But the vocal clarity on it is the best that I've ever heard. Because my earbuds collection isn't many lol

 Now I only have 2 earbuds in my possession, Tomahawk and my own DIY earbuds with silver plated copper cable and unknown driver.
 Thanks to that DIY buds of mine I have finally found on what kind of sound signature that I love. It is warmish and slightly dark sound. I really love a slight bump on mid-bass making vocal sound more natural, and lush to me. Something like Sennheiser HD600 headphones (though I haven't heard it myself)
 And I think I will like Zen 2 better than Zen 1 based on what I read in this case.

 Still, the biggest mystery for me is when Zen 2 paired with RA. People who have this pair just keep on praising them like no tomorrow lol


----------



## ld100

> ...or maybe your listening preference doesn't lineup with others? Just because it is the public opinion doesn't make it the right opinion on personal level.


 
  
 I am stating the fact based on my personal experience. I did shell out the cost of the item and expected to get a certain return on my investment. If what I received under-performs I feel it is perfectly fine for me to voice out my 'personal' experience. And to warn others.
  
 I am quite puzzled by your comment. There are many positive reviews and there are many negative ones for all imaginary items on this board. I personally like reading fare negative reviews as it saves me money and aggravation... If I can warn another fans that he might not get like Tomahawks or there is a chance that they might be defective I think it is a good thing.


----------



## kinetic758

tomasz2d said:


> My fake MX 985 - sound, soundstage everything nicly balanced - reminds of big stereo speakers setup. You know that equalizer presets like rock, pop, jazz? Ok, turn on "pop" preset on MX 985 an you are in Ting territory. Both Tomahawk and Ting sounds have some smaller speakers qualities. A little bit boxy plus add dry and harsh upper-mids in Tomahawk. Just not for everybody or not for all music genres.




Thanks for the comparison. I don't seem to see too many people with the the Ting. Do you feel it's worth the price?

Edit: and how long was the burn in process for them?


----------



## ClieOS

ld100 said:


> I am stating the fact based on my personal experience. I did shell out the cost of the item and expected to get a certain return on my investment. If what I received under-performs I feel it is perfectly fine for me to voice out my 'personal' experience. And to warn others.
> 
> I am quite puzzled by your comment. There are many positive reviews and there are many negative ones for all imaginary items on this board. I personally like reading fare negative reviews as it saves me money and aggravation... If I can warn another fans that he might not get like Tomahawks or there is a chance that they might be defective I think it is a good thing.


 
  
 Not saying you are wrong in anyway and hope you haven't took my previous comment as such. I am stating nothing beyond the scope of "one man's meat is another man's poison". We all talk about what each of us like and dislike in the forum and everyone's preference is totally valid to his/her opinion - even if it goes against the public opinion. The lesson to take away is however for oneself to know whether his/her opinion and preference will line up with the public opinion or not, and thus whether he can use those opinion as reference or not. Obviously if someone keep finding his liking is not the same as the public (or even just a certain persons') opinion, then it will be foolish to keep using those opinion as guide to buying more headphone or upgrade - that is, to find the opinion from people you know you can trust to reflect your taste, not just blindly following the crowd or the 'next big thing'. The quicker one can see how this things go, the least road one need to travel to find the headphone (s)he will like. That's hopefully how a forum like HF works for most people.


----------



## SuperMAG

can i get similar priced earbud as monk plus, with better separation and details and brighter and more bass if possible then monk plus?
  
 monk plus vocals are too uggg when watching movies etc.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

supermag said:


> can i get similar priced earbud as monk plus, with better separation and details and brighter and more bass if possible then monk plus?
> 
> monk plus vocals are too uggg when watching movies etc.


 
 TY Hi-Z HP-32, or Edifier H180


----------



## Tomasz2D

tayyab pirzada said:


> How do you know they're fake? Or are you being sarcastic lol


 
 I just don't know but I already contacted Sennheiser directly regarding this matter and we will see what they can tell us. Whatever they reply I will pass it on here.


----------



## Tomasz2D

kinetic758 said:


> Thanks for the comparison. I don't seem to see too many people with the the Ting. Do you feel it's worth the price?
> 
> Edit: and how long was the burn in process for them?


 
 Both Tomahawk and Ting are quality earbuds, just very specific and not main-stream by any means. You want to have Ting if a) you want to have something different than the rest of your earbuds or, b) you are really into this kind of sound.
  
 I just use my stuff and do not give them special treatment like burn-in. Earbuds are not car engine although for sure even earbuds change with time like everything else.


----------



## mebaali

Received TY Hi-Z 32 buds (bought from Penon Audio's aliex store), today.
  
 OOTB, with full foam cover, I find them to be too bright (very hot peaky treble) for my liking (there is also the issue of sibilance and bass liteness). Hope the harsh treble subsides with more usage (or my brain adjust to this sound signature).
  
 Source gear I have used: Fiio X1 LO + Topping NX 1 LG, songs (all in M4A 256 kbps) tested are Kavinsky's Protovision, Magic Dance's One Step Away, FM-84's Wild Ones, Electric Youth's Innerworld (whole album)


----------



## mochill

Got the ty hi-zhp400s today


----------



## golov17

mochill said:


> Got the ty hi-zhp400s today


 How do your feel compared to 32?


----------



## Fabi

mochill said:


> Got the ty hi-zhp400s today


----------



## mochill

When i get home I'll compare


----------



## tintheman

Hello everyone, just curious if anyone uses the Dunu Alpha one...I'd start using it and I found it works really well for pure music without vocal...any tips on what eartip should use since I use only the thick silicon one. Thanks.


----------



## nihontoman

mebaali said:


> Received TY Hi-Z 32 buds (bought from Penon Audio's aliex store), today.
> 
> OOTB, with full foam cover, I find them to be too bright (very hot peaky treble) for my liking (there is also the issue of sibilance and bass liteness). Hope the harsh treble subsides with more usage (or my brain adjust to this sound signature).
> 
> Source gear I have used: Fiio X1 LO + Topping NX 1 LG, songs (all in M4A 256 kbps) tested are Kavinsky's Protovision, Magic Dance's One Step Away, FM-84's Wild Ones, Electric Youth's Innerworld (whole album)


 
  
  
 it will get much better. mine als sounded like that, I even made a post about that. now they sound natural, compared to other audio equipement


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

My Rose Mojitos arrived tonight! And Ostry KC08 and Ty Hi-Z 32.


----------



## nihontoman

How do those 3 compare?


----------



## kinetic758

Received my Cygnus and Ting today. The Cygnus is definitely the sound I prefer out of the box: involving, slightly forward with clean highs. Not a huge fan of the Ting at the moment: with full foams, it lacked impact...I now understand other people's description of them as being "distant". We'll see how they break in.


----------



## ZerkMeister

tayyab pirzada said:


> My Rose Mojitos arrived tonight! And Ostry KC08 and Ty Hi-Z 32.


 
 Yea I am also curious about the Ostry KC08. Do tell when you get a chance to listen to them.


----------



## audio123

zerkmeister said:


> Yea I am also curious about the Ostry KC08. Do tell when you get a chance to listen to them.


 
 not an earbud guy but i have the monk, monk+ and tried asura & kc08.
 i prefer monk/monk+ over kc08.
 kc08 sounds veiled, very bassy and roll off treble


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kinetic758 said:


> Received my Cygnus and Ting today. The Cygnus is definitely the sound I prefer out of the box: involving, slightly forward with clean highs. Not a huge fan of the Ting at the moment: with full foams, it lacked impact...I now understand other people's description of them as being "distant". We'll see how they break in.




Cygnus is my all purpose bud. Slightly warm and forward with intimate soundstage. Perfect for R&B.


----------



## music4mhell

zerkmeister said:


> tayyab pirzada said:
> 
> 
> > My Rose Mojitos arrived tonight! And Ostry KC08 and Ty Hi-Z 32.
> ...


 
 I don't like Ostry KC08 at all, it has very bad mids, i have listened to it only 2/3 times.
 It's the only earbud which i hate in my collection


----------



## jrazmar

Have finally received the balanced to single-ended adapter for my balanced Cygnus and after 48 hours of non-stop burn-in, I can say that the sound sig is pleasantly balanced with not-so wide soundstage. Impact and the right sparkle of notes are there but overall, the Zen 2.0 still reigns as my earbuds champion. When I listened back to the Zen foamless, everything seems a little bit clearer and refined compared to the Cygnus. Separation is also better in the Zen. Though the Cygnus is much more efficient, there is something in the Zen's sound that makes me "more amazed". Later today, I will try the 75ohm impedance adapter with the Cygnus and let's see. Now, I am waiting for the Edimun V3 to come and find out whether the rumors are true.


----------



## jussi2013

How much do the better earbuds leak sound? Or is there big differences between them?
  
 Can everybody in the room hear them with moderately high listening levels? What about next room? 
  
 How they compare to big closed cans?


----------



## kinetic758

On day one with my Tings, I find that I like them more when the "tube amp" sound effect is turned on on my Galaxy S6 phone. 

A general question: how many of you actually use some sort of EQ when listening to your earbuds? Coming from a more "traditional" audiophile background where adding any processing to the sound is considered a bad thing, I'm curious if the same mindset dominates the earbud crowd as well.


----------



## mebaali

nihontoman said:


> it will get much better. mine als sounded like that, I even made a post about that. now they sound natural, compared to other audio equipement


 
 That's very assuring.
  
 Have kept these in use for last 10 hours (random songs played at 60% volume on loop in my old N97).
  
 I find the vocals in these sounds better (are slightly pronounced?) to my ears than Monks. Just want the treble to be little less peaky.


----------



## Tomasz2D

mochill said:


> When i get home I'll compare


 
  
 Take this opportunity to also compare Zen 2.0 Black Edition to standard one. I mean of course soundwise. Visually, I can judge by myself - one is black and the other one is more reddish.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Initial thoughts on Rose Mojito: really epic detail and soundstage. Very neutral sound. Vocals sort of recessed. But detail makes up for it. Awesome for instrumental music including orchestral or jazz. I found also very nice for chill out R&B.

Braided cable wins in terms of quality and the other cable is slightly better in terms of detail.

Bass is actually surprisingly good and quick.

Only problem is the foams. Ive been trying for over an hour to put them on with limited success! Sigh.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Thoughts on Ostry KC08:

Epic sub-bass and bass in general. Dry-ish vocals. Soundstage not bad. These are amazing headphones for hip-hop and for bass-heads in general. I really enjoyed them since I listen to hip-hop at times. 

I havent heard the Ty Hi-Z enough yet.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Also, Aurarian Dance and Mystline by Nujabes are absolutely stunning with Rose Mojito.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Finally got the foam covers on for the Mojito


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Awesome fit with the foams for Mojito to my ears.

And scratch that, anything by Nujabes sounds amazing with them.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

The Mojito with foams size is perfect for my ears, almost same comfort level as Shozy Cygnus. Mojito are basically perfect earbuds in every category. I'm assuming the dual driver is coming through for the wide soundstage and great bass. Only qualm is the recessed vocals. But I can live with it.


----------



## Tomasz2D

kinetic758 said:


> On day one with my Tings, I find that I like them more when the "tube amp" sound effect is turned on on my Galaxy S6 phone.
> 
> A general question: how many of you actually use some sort of EQ when listening to your earbuds? Coming from a more "traditional" audiophile background where adding any processing to the sound is considered a bad thing, I'm curious if the same mindset dominates the earbud crowd as well.


 
  
 You EQ already when you foam, donat foam, double foam, different insert angles etc. If no animals are harmed and you have your seat belts fastened you should be fine with software EQ as well. For what dominates you would have to do some kind of poll.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Not sure why people hate on the Ostry KC08 so much lol. I have to listen more but I actually loved the amount of bass and the veiled sound. It brought a certain edge to hip-hop music provided only by actual IEM's over earbuds. And the foams and design are just so cool.


----------



## Tomasz2D

tayyab pirzada said:


> Not sure why people hate on the Ostry KC08 so much lol. I have to listen more but I actually loved the amount of bass and the veiled sound. It brought a certain edge to hip-hop music provided only by actual IEM's over earbuds. And the foams and design are just so cool.


 
 I like Ostry KC08 but because it is very V-shaped I understand why somebody may not like it.


----------



## haiku

Just received my new Seahf LD-4.0 400Ohm buds. I´m listening right now. I´m speechless, totally speechless. I have to listen some more.....


----------



## golov17

KC08T
Transducer unit:16mm CCAW double-cavities driver(the OSTRY spatent) 
Diaphragm: the EBT diaphram (based on Eardrum Bionics Technology) 
Sensitivity: ≥105dB(at 1000HZ) 
Impedance:32Ω±15% 
Frequency respond: 20Hz-20KHz 
Distortion:<1% 102dB(at 20μ pa ) 
Channel imbalance:<1.5dB(at 1000HZ) 
Rated power: 10mW





http://m.shenzhenaudio.com/ostry-kc08t-hi-fi-in-ear-high-performance-earphones-headphones-for-iphone-and-android.html#.V4Sw9AGZII8.facebook


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> Just received my new Seahf LD-4.0 400Ohm buds. I´m listening right now. I´m speechless, totally speechless. I have to listen some more.....


 
 Which other high end earbuds you have which you can compare with ?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Sennheiser MX985 came in the mail today. They really do not look fake to me.


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 http://en-us.sennheiser.com/about-sennheiser-at-a-glance-counterfeit-a-guarantee-of-quality


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> Sennheiser MX985 came in the mail today. They really do not look fake to me.


 
 Fakes ain't what they used to be....
 it's not like you'd need to have a misprinted box to know they're fake.
 I would check with Sennheiser IMO as i'm sure they'd be interested to know if they're real or not too.
 At the worst, they'd know one more person was willing to spend $$ on earbuds...


----------



## kinetic758

Listening to my Cygnus at work and someone walks into my office: "those headphones look fancy, a little girly though..." 
  
 I guess the braided cord is an acquired taste for some.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

kinetic758 said:


> Listening to my Cygnus at work and someone walks into my office: "those headphones look fancy, a little girly though..."
> 
> I guess the braided cord is an acquired taste for some.


 
  
 Maybe they will look more man like when the braided cord turns green...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 --


----------



## vapman

kinetic758 said:


> Listening to my Cygnus at work and someone walks into my office: "those headphones look fancy, a little girly though..."
> 
> I guess the braided cord is an acquired taste for some.


 

 I think they look screw** awesome,
  
 also implies girly is bad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 leave your cygnus out in the sun to speed up the cable greening 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My first cygnus got super green... I miss it haha.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I love green cable on Cygnus.
  
 On sidenote, I contacted Sennheiser and even though mine doesn't have a QR code, they said it is most likely authentic (I gave them the retailer info. on Amazon etc.).


----------



## alpha421

haiku said:


> Just received my new Seahf LD-4.0 400Ohm buds. I´m listening right now. I´m speechless, totally speechless. I have to listen some more.....


 
  


music4mhell said:


> Which other high end earbuds you have which you can compare with ?


 
  
 Interested to know as well.  I was not impressed at all with the Seahf 320, even after balancing it.


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> I love green cable on Cygnus.
> 
> On sidenote, I contacted Sennheiser and even though mine doesn't have a QR code, they said it is most likely authentic (I gave them the retailer info. on Amazon etc.).


 

 That's great news man. So they are the ebay ones?
 If any are left maybe I will grab one.
 I wouldnt' think they would have a QR code though..... I don't think QR was really a thing outside of Asia at the time these came out... but i never owned mx985 so maybe i shouldn't be talking.
  
 Also awaiting Seahf thoughts


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> That's great news man. So they are the ebay ones?
> If any are left maybe I will grab one.
> I wouldnt' think they would have a QR code though..... I don't think QR was really a thing outside of Asia at the time these came out... but i never owned mx985 so maybe i shouldn't be talking.
> 
> Also awaiting Seahf thoughts


 
  
 I believe they were purchased from Amazon.  Currently, it's defaulting to showing VERITE VALUE as the seller, but they seem a little fishy to me (no seller reviews yet and they also claim to have 17 in stock).  
  
 You can change the seller by clicking on the "X new from $199" button.  I believe J.J.S. is the seller that @Tayyab Pirzada used.
  
 Tempted to buy as well!


----------



## vapman

kinetic758 said:


> I believe they were purchased from Amazon.  Currently, it's defaulting to showing VERITE VALUE as the seller, but they seem a little fishy to me (no seller reviews yet and they also claim to have 17 in stock).
> 
> You can change the seller by clicking on the "X new from $199" button.  I believe J.J.S. is the seller that @Tayyab Pirzada used.
> 
> Tempted to buy as well!


 

 Alright cool. Yeah I thought that many in stock was fishy but you can never know what's really on the NOS market hiding in warehouses to be found...
  
 I am thinking to buy a pair and give Sennheiser a call because if they have a bunch of people asking in about MX985's all of a sudden they will put some serious attention to this. Then it could be known for sure or not whether these were genuine items.


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> Alright cool. Yeah I thought that many in stock was fishy but you can never know what's really on the NOS market hiding in warehouses to be found...
> 
> I am thinking to buy a pair and give Sennheiser a call because if they have a bunch of people asking in about MX985's all of a sudden they will put some serious attention to this. Then it could be known for sure or not whether these were genuine items.


 
  
 Sounds like a plan!  And since both of those sellers use "Fulfilled by Amazon", returns shouldn't be too much of a hassle.


----------



## vapman

Great. If anyone else plans to buy one and call/email Sennheiser about it, definitely post here so we know about it.


----------



## rggz

I really want to know how they can profit with MX985 "fake", just the CNC body and machine are a LOT expensive, the cable with control volume, special connector, laser inscription and the housing material, manuals, leather case w/ airplane adapter with Sennheiser logo, seriously I've never seen a fake with so many micro details.  
  
 Although the IE8XX line of Sennheiser is very common we see fake models, but they have some characteristics you can difference between original/fake, but with MX985 is hard to tell or find some info about that. Maybe ClieOS can measure his MX985 without compensation for we have an idea the FR of the original model and create some reference, also I can measure my model (regarding the differences between rigs/microphonics the sonic peaks should be very similar).


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> Alright cool. Yeah I thought that many in stock was fishy but you can never know what's really on the NOS market hiding in warehouses to be found...
> 
> I am thinking to buy a pair and give Sennheiser a call because if they have a bunch of people asking in about MX985's all of a sudden they will put some serious attention to this. Then it could be known for sure or not whether these were genuine items.


 
 No I am referring to the Amazon Sennheiser MX985's.
  
 And my AK Jr just arrived! Now just need to wait for my Fiio E12A amp and it should be sonic bliss here on out.


----------



## ld100

tayyab pirzada said:


> Sennheiser MX985 came in the mail today. They really do not look fake to me.




A million dollars questions how do they sound???


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Wow, AK Jr with Rose Mojito when playing classical or jazz music is absolute bliss. :|


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

ld100 said:


> A million dollars questions how do they sound???


 
 Haven't tried yet


----------



## ld100

tayyab pirzada said:


> Haven't tried yet




Anxiously waiting to hear how it is... I would love to get them if the are the real deal in terms of sound!


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

ld100 said:


> Anxiously waiting to hear how it is... I would love to get them if the are the real deal in terms of sound!


 
 Ok I heard a bit (not a lot though) and what I can say is they are a great bud for everyday use. Fairly good soundstage. Bass is kind of lacking though, as is instrument separation, ultra-detail, and "warmness" of vocals. Vocals are also slightly recessed. 
  
 Maybe it's just my ears but I actually like Shozy Cygnus more than these. I think I'm going to return them. My ultimate earbud combos right now are Shozy Cygnus for vocal music, Ostry KC08 for hip-hop, and Rose Mojito for instrumental.


----------



## ZerkMeister

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016E4EXI0/ref=gbps_tit_m-2_3fbc_7c63930f?smid=A23AS8PFN4IRUQ&pf_rd_p=91f3a7fa-63d3-4b36-9063-bb9391783fbc&pf_rd_s=merchandised-search-2&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=14611812011&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=B407QEKRSYB8GQV8A4B6
  
 Just saw the edifier P180 for prime day.
 Good or naw?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

zerkmeister said:


> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016E4EXI0/ref=gbps_tit_m-2_3fbc_7c63930f?smid=A23AS8PFN4IRUQ&pf_rd_p=91f3a7fa-63d3-4b36-9063-bb9391783fbc&pf_rd_s=merchandised-search-2&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=14611812011&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=B407QEKRSYB8GQV8A4B6
> 
> Just saw the edifier P180 for prime day.
> Good or naw?


 
 Very good bass. Super warm bud. Clear vocals as well; non-recessed. I think it's great.
  
 On a sidenote, just ordered Edimun V3 from Iriyan.


----------



## Saoshyant

tayyab pirzada said:


> Very good bass. Super warm bud. Clear vocals as well; non-recessed. I think it's great.
> 
> On a sidenote, just ordered Edimun V3 from Iriyan.


 
 Been looking for an earbud with mic, picked em up, so here's hoping I like em!


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

saoshyant said:


> Been looking for an earbud with mic, picked em up, so here's hoping I like em!


 
 See this too: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-VE-Monk-with-REMOTE-and-Mic-HQ-custom-cable/231973727127?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D37427%26meid%3D1fadc42a0e2d4820955c337bfd57f1d0%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D252199263736


----------



## mebaali

Update on TY Hi-Z 32 buds - With over 20 hours of usage, the shoutiness (to my ears) seems to have reduced to an extent (it still shows up when playing songs that have treble focus). These are the most detail oriented (or it seems so to me) buds that I own (from a mainly IEM guy).


----------



## jussi2013

I ended up ordering Tomahawk's for some special case listening, radio (sports) use while walking etc. when I don't want any isolation.
 My first ever bought earbuds, very curious to see how they sound, but im not waiting for miracles. :f
  
 I'll probably order some IEMs too, and invest more on them.


----------



## haiku

vapman said:


> Also awaiting Seahf thoughts


 
 To be BRUTALLY HONEST (as Lee likes to say), I´m still speechless. Have to listen some more....


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > Also awaiting Seahf thoughts
> ...


 
 Please compare it with some other earbuds.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Ok after listening to the Mojito with AK Jr, I have to say that it is a masterpiece of an earbud. A work of art even. It makes music sound so ****** fantastic. I can't explain it. It's beyond the class of other earbuds. It's in a god-class of its own. You have to experience it for yourself. I disagree that it can only be used for instrumental music (although it is best for that). I am absolutely enthralled in the bass and wide soundstage in even pop songs. It makes MP3 songs sound amazing, and for FLAC songs it leaves you breathless. And this is all without an amp (my Fiio E12A is still arriving in the mail). The tonality of it sounds "digital" if that makes sense. Biggest surprise is how GOOD the bass sounds from a supposedly neutral earbud! The quality of the bass really makes it stand out (over the quantity), and not many earbuds have good quality bass (though plenty have lots of quantity bass).
  
 11/10 from me for the Rose Mojito. It is really irreplaceable.


----------



## Rizky Octayudha

Few days ago I met @irgunawan in his city "samarinda"
  
 He's a friendly man with a lot of information to share, yet he's funny too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 With no doubt, I bought a Edimun V3 from him, and go home happily


----------



## jrazmar

tayyab pirzada said:


> Ok after listening to the Mojito with AK Jr, I have to say that it is a masterpiece of an earbud. A work of art even. It makes music sound so ****** fantastic. I can't explain it. It's beyond the class of other earbuds. It's in a god-class of its own. You have to experience it for yourself. I disagree that it can only be used for instrumental music (although it is best for that). I am absolutely enthralled in the bass and wide soundstage in even pop songs. It makes MP3 songs sound amazing, and for FLAC songs it leaves you breathless. And this is all without an amp (my Fiio E12A is still arriving in the mail). The tonality of it sounds "digital" if that makes sense. Biggest surprise is how GOOD the bass sounds from a supposedly neutral earbud! The quality of the bass really makes it stand out (over the quantity), and not many earbuds have good quality bass (though plenty have lots of quantity bass).
> 
> 11/10 from me for the Rose Mojito. It is really irreplaceable.


 
  
 how does the Edimun V3 compare to the Mojito? do you also have the Zen 2.0? If so, how it compares with the Rose?


----------



## kinetic758

tayyab pirzada said:


> Ok after listening to the Mojito with AK Jr, I have to say that it is a masterpiece of an earbud. A work of art even. It makes music sound so ****** fantastic. I can't explain it. It's beyond the class of other earbuds. It's in a god-class of its own. You have to experience it for yourself. I disagree that it can only be used for instrumental music (although it is best for that). I am absolutely enthralled in the bass and wide soundstage in even pop songs. It makes MP3 songs sound amazing, and for FLAC songs it leaves you breathless. And this is all without an amp (my Fiio E12A is still arriving in the mail). The tonality of it sounds "digital" if that makes sense. Biggest surprise is how GOOD the bass sounds from a supposedly neutral earbud! The quality of the bass really makes it stand out (over the quantity), and not many earbuds have good quality bass (though plenty have lots of quantity bass).
> 
> 11/10 from me for the Rose Mojito. It is really irreplaceable.




Would you say these earbuds work well with hip hop music? In other words, a nice all rounder like the Cygnus?


----------



## nihontoman

Farael 64OHM phones are pretty good. got them yesterday and they sound fuller compared to the TY HI-Z 32, but the TY has a bit better sub-bass extension (which is disappointing kinda) but otherwise, these sound more lush and full. soundstage is maybe a bit wider in TY (maybe because it sounds thinner). Faraels had no strange treble spike OTB, and are definitely more laid back. I enjoy both, but do feel that these sound better overall compared to the TY Hi-Z 32.
  
 also, cable is wonderful on farael - very very soft and pliable.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kinetic758 said:


> Would you say these earbuds work well with hip hop music? In other words, a nice all rounder like the Cygnus?


 
 I enjoy the Rose Mojito with hip-hop, but others have relegated it only for instrumental music use. To each their own.
  
 I do not have Zen 2, and I just ordered Edimun recently. In my opinion Mojito is an all-rounder, but it's upto you and your soudn signature preferences.


----------



## golov17

nihontoman said:


> Farael 64OHM phones are pretty good. got them yesterday and they sound fuller compared to the TY HI-Z 32, but the TY has a bit better sub-bass extension (which is disappointing kinda) but otherwise, these sound more lush and full. soundstage is maybe a bit wider in TY (maybe because it sounds thinner). Faraels had no strange treble spike OTB, and are definitely more laid back. I enjoy both, but do feel that these sound better overall compared to the TY Hi-Z 32.
> 
> also, cable is wonderful on farael - very very soft and pliable.


 About which version you have?


----------



## nihontoman

golov17 said:


> About which version you have?


 

  wait, there are three versions of this? mine is the last one, clear one. the first one - smoke color looks great though :|


----------



## golov17

nihontoman said:


> the first one - smoke color looks great though :|


http://s.aliexpress.com/IJ7VjUfI


----------



## nihontoman

golov17 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/IJ7VjUfI




Do you know if different colours have different tuning or are they same?


----------



## golov17

nihontoman said:


> Do you know if different colours have different tuning or are they same?


 nope


----------



## Joy Boy

nihontoman said:


> Do you know if different colours have different tuning or are they same?



Different. For what i've heard. The black housingvhas more bass than transparent one (no.3). But, i don't know. May be i'm wrong


----------



## ClieOS

Farerl's earbuds are not differentiated by color of the housing, as they all come with various color. There are two version of 64ohm, referred as 1.0 and 2.0. Besides 2.0 being a bit more expensive, there is no difference on the look alone (and my bet is most, if not all of the 64ohm in HF are probably 1.0). There is however just one version of 300ohm - again, same housing as the 64ohm and you can't tell them apart by look alone.


----------



## nihontoman

clieos said:


> Farerl's earbuds are not differentiated by color of the housing, as they all come with various color. There are two version of 64ohm, referred as 1.0 and 2.0. Besides 2.0 being a bit more expensive, there is no difference on the look alone (and my bet is most, if not all of the 64ohm in HF are probably 1.0). There is however just one version of 300ohm - again, same housing as the 64ohm and you can't tell them apart by look alone.


 
  
  
 and any info if the 2.0 sounds "better"?


----------



## ClieOS

nihontoman said:


> and any info if the 2.0 sounds "better"?


 
  
 That's the assumption, but I haven't read any impression of it yet.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

DIY Dual Driver just arrived. It's basically the mini-Mojito. Very similar sound. Slightly recessed vocals, EPIC soundstage, and "digital" sound. Bass is pretty weak though.


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> DIY Dual Driver just arrived. It's basically the mini-Mojito. Very similar sound. Slightly recessed vocals, EPIC soundstage, and "digital" sound. Bass is pretty weak though.


 

 haha, I've been waiting for someone else with Mojito to get the Dual Driver to see if the sound was the same. I gotta buy one. If anyone doesn't want theirs anymore, I'm happy to give it a new home 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 happy 4000 posts lol


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> haha, I've been waiting for someone else with Mojito to get the Dual Driver to see if the sound was the same. I gotta buy one. If anyone doesn't want theirs anymore, I'm happy to give it a new home


 
 I'll sell you mine. With the Mojito, I don't need the DIY Dual Driver anymore.
  
 Although it is only like 40 USD from AE.


----------



## Joy Boy

Just received The Crow earbud today. Another modified bud based on old monk driver. It's already recabled and re-tuned.
Honestly, i prefer this bud over cygnus.
Out of the box, it has so special mid. Warm and lush vocal but still good on instrument detail. 
It has delicate treble, while the bass is on right amount, but a little bit decay. Not reccomended for headbanger.
I think i'll spend more time with more various song and genre. I'll try to burn in this bud for a couple hours because i don't know if the modder already burned in it. But really, out of the box, it sounds great for its price.

Set up: Fiio X3ii, topping NX1 mod by verus audio, silvercoated male to male interconnect.

*my personal opinion and assessment. The result may different depend on set up, song, and personal prefference. Always take it with a grain of salt


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Question to everyone,
  
 How do I sync my Jriver (or Itunes) playlists to the AK Jr without manually writing each song by hand? (Since there are probably hundreds of songs).
  
 Does anyone have a solution? Playlist creation for the AK Jr is such a hassle especially when you have long playlists.


----------



## the diode

joy boy said:


> Just received The Crow earbud today. Another modified bud based on old monk driver. It's already recabled and re-tuned.
> Honestly, i prefer this bud over cygnus.
> Out of the box, it has so special mid. Warm and lush vocal but still good on instrument detail.
> It has sparkling treble, while the bass is on right amount, but a little bit decay. Not reccomended for headbanger.
> ...


 

 Where did you order them??


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> Question to everyone,
> 
> How do I sync my Jriver (or Itunes) playlists to the AK Jr without manually writing each song by hand? (Since there are probably hundreds of songs).
> 
> Does anyone have a solution? Playlist creation for the AK Jr is such a hassle especially when you have long playlists.


 

 probably best to ask this in the AK Jr thread but I know iTunes has always had the feature to export playlists. They just hide it more and more as time goes on. Not sure where it is exactly anymore, although it shouldn't be too hard to find as I found it nearly immediately on my gf's iTunes yesterday doing this for her. I think you go File > Library > Export Playlist


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> probably best to ask this in the AK Jr thread but I know iTunes has always had the feature to export playlists. They just hide it more and more as time goes on. Not sure where it is exactly anymore, although it shouldn't be too hard to find as I found it nearly immediately on my gf's iTunes yesterday doing this for her. I think you go File > Library > Export Playlist


 
 Tried it. Doesn't work. AK Jr only allows "PLS" file playlists, and all the files in the playlist have to be from your AK Jr and not on your computer. It is so frustrating.


----------



## Joy Boy

the diode said:


> Where did you order them??



Just contact the modder via FB. I'm sorry i can't get the link with my nobile phone. This is the screenshoot of het wall


----------



## the diode

joy boy said:


> Just contact the modder via FB. I'm sorry i can't get the link with my nobile phone. This is the screenshoot of het wall


 
 Thank you!!


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

My way of storage:

Using a watch box, with each bud stored in a 3x3 Ziploc bag and silica gel. I may have to get a bigger watch box soon lol.

Still waiting for Monks, and Aurvana Air.


----------



## chicken beer

tayyab pirzada said:


> My way of storage:
> 
> Using a watch box, with each bud stored in a 3x3 Ziploc bag and silica gel. I may have to get a bigger watch box soon lol.
> 
> Still waiting for Monks, and Aurvana Air.


 
  
 My way of storage: put it into the ears!


----------



## oopeteroo

joy boy said:


> Just received The Crow earbud today. Another modified bud based on old monk driver. It's already recabled and re-tuned.
> Honestly, i prefer this bud over cygnus.
> Out of the box, it has so special mid. Warm and lush vocal but still good on instrument detail.
> It has delicate treble, while the bass is on right amount, but a little bit decay. Not reccomended for headbanger.
> ...


 how much did u pay for it ?


----------



## nihontoman

after listening to the farael 64OHM some more, these are my observations:

 for 18$, it is quite a bargain -  the cable, tin metal case and donuts alone are worth the asking price, not to mention an unusual clear shell.
  
 sounds wise, these are pretty good:
  
 Base frequencies - base is pretty solid. Although I've mentioned that sub-base extension isn't as good as TY-HI-Z 32, now that I've heard it more, maybe it got some burn in or what, these have MORE sub-base. sub-base is quite extended, up to about 45-ish Hz, than rolls of (pretty good for a earbud). Mid-base is also big, a bit bigger than sub-base (whish it was the other way around) but nothing too out of proportion. This makes percussion sound VERY natural. there is something to it's PRAT - these sound natural and non artificial. first headphone of mine that made kitaro matsuri DSD sound enjoyable and impactful. also, male vocals have some welcomed weight to them 



 Mid frequencies - mid is thick, lush and at the same time detailed. I hate thin sounding headphones and these are not it. sax sound wonderful, as well as violin and vocals are very nice. female vocals are a bit pronounced and forward which isn't anything bad. nothing extreme. just a bit forward. I like it that way to be honest. no peaks or anything to that extend detected in mid to mid-high frequencies. mid is there, and enjoyable. these do sound clear but some recording tend to get too thick which might make some people think these are not the most detailed. they are detailed, but not because peaks in frequency range.



 High frequencies- I can hear up to 18Khz with these. Might be my hearing getting a bit worse. Anyways - highs are detailed, not peaky and not too forward. highs are not metallic sounding like some phones tend to do. They have sparkle, but not as much as the TY HI-Z 32. I would say highs in that phone are more in your face and are brighter than these. farael are base and mid centric iems, while the TY HI-Z 32 are more classical V shaped sound (not that the mid is recessed there. it's more of a "thickness" thing. don't know how to describe it). Haven't really had any problems with details in high frequencies - details are plenty and they are there, just not as pronounced and artificially enhanced as on V shaped phones. no sibilance detected whatsoever, even on sibilant tracks.
  
  
  
 soundstage at first seems narrower than TY HI-Z 32, but then you realize it is an illusion caused by the fact that these have a thicker sounds. well, soundstage is also an illusion, but I digress. Soundstage is pretty good, they easily achieve out of head sensation when it is called for in the recording. instruments are also not very blended together and they are separated and have decent positioning effect. can't say much more.
  
 what I don't like is, these sometimes sound a bit boomy with bad recordings. TY HI-Z 32 can mask that, but these don't. not sure if it is a con or a pro.


----------



## Joy Boy

oopeteroo said:


> how much did u pay for it ?



Around $45


----------



## ZerkMeister

joy boy said:


> Around $45


 
 Wait you paid $45 for a modified monk?
 Thats what that is right?


----------



## WhiteNightCrow

zerkmeister said:


> Wait you paid $45 for a modified monk?
> Thats what that is right?




You didn't read it wrong, sir.
Yes, it is $45 for that modded monk unit


----------



## ForceMajeure

joy boy said:


> Around $45


 
 Do you have the original monk to compare it to?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I have to say...I'm really enjoying the Ostry KC08. The vocals are pretty recessed and not high detail as for example Rose Mojito, but soundstage is medium sized (not as small as Shozy Cygnus but not as wide as Rose Mojito). But the reason I like them is the unique way the bass and sub-bass sounds. They sound almost like good car speakers with the bass turned all the way up. And yet the bass is not overpowering. It's just the right amount. Ostry KC08 are quality headphones for people who like bass.
  
 Especially good for hip-hop.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

So since CliOs is not updating this thread anymore, and since most of his Champion level buds are not even available anymore (with the exception of Rose Mojito), I want to ask the following question:
  
 Which earbud today that is still available to buy, is the absolute best earbud in the entire planet?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

My review for Rose Mojito: http://www.head-fi.org/products/rose-mojito/reviews/16429
 And Ostry KC08: http://www.head-fi.org/products/ostry-kc08-high-fidelity-earbud-earphone/reviews/16428


----------



## DarkZenith

tayyab pirzada said:


> So since CliOs is not updating this thread anymore, and since most of his Champion level buds are not even available anymore (with the exception of Rose Mojito), I want to ask the following question:
> 
> Which earbud today that is still available to buy, is the absolute best earbud in the entire planet?


 

*TY Hi-Z HP400* (but it's not an "absolute" choice since it's a *warm and bassy *earbud. It's the absolute best warm and bassy earbud available today IMHO. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
*Jiushao E300* is the absolute best *clear and accurate* earbud available today IMHO (but Zen V1 was better).
*Edifier H180* is the absolute best *V sounding* earbud available today IMHO (but Blox BE3 mkII was excellent too).
*VE Monk V1* is the absolute best *mid-centric* earbud available today IMHO.
*Pioneer SE-CE521* is the absolute best *linear sounding* earbud available today IMHO.


----------



## luedriver

darkzenith said:


> *linear sounding*.


 
  
  
 sorry for the noob-ish question, but, what does it mean?


----------



## DarkZenith

With a straight or flat-ish perceived frequency response.


----------



## haiku

tayyab pirzada said:


> So since CliOs is not updating this thread anymore, and since most of his Champion level buds are not even available anymore (with the exception of Rose Mojito), I want to ask the following question:
> 
> Which earbud today that is still available to buy, is the absolute best earbud in the entire planet?


 

 There is none. It all depends on which sound signature you prefer. Me, I just can´t stand the sennheiser sound. Bores me to death.


----------



## golov17

haiku said:


> There is none. It all depends on which sound signature you prefer. Me, I just can´t stand the sennheiser sound. Bores me to death.


 Amen, bro


----------



## Saoshyant

forcemajeure said:


> Do you have the original monk to compare it to?


 
  
 I have a modified Monk I'm currently in the process of comparing to the original Monk to prepare for a review, and they are without a doubt quite lovely and impressive.  If you feel $45 for a modified Monk is too much, I suggest you look up the various Fostex T50RP mods, some of which can be a bit costly but are very well respected.  There's also the SennGrado mods which create something fantastic if done correctly.


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

saoshyant said:


> I have a modified Monk I'm currently in the process of comparing to the original Monk to prepare for a review, and they are without a doubt quite lovely and impressive.  If you feel $45 for a modified Monk is too much, I suggest you look up the various Fostex T50RP mods, some of which can be a bit costly but are very well respected.  There's also the SennGrado mods which create something fantastic if done correctly.


 
 Do they tell you what mods they've done to the monk? I'm always interested to hear how they can get so much out of something so cheap, like those modded h180s people post about here.


----------



## Saoshyant

Sorry, I didn't ask what mods were done to it.  I did see a couple extra holes in the back were made, as well as a new cable and a viablue jack.  Crow Audio did a great job with it.


----------



## golov17

2016 Newest AUGLAMOUR RX-1 In Ear Earphone Flat Head Plug High Quality Full Metal Earbud Headset Free Shipping
 http://s.aliexpress.com/F7ZvE7vm


----------



## audio123

golov17 said:


> 2016 Newest AUGLAMOUR RX-1 In Ear Earphone Flat Head Plug High Quality Full Metal Earbud Headset Free Shipping
> http://s.aliexpress.com/F7ZvE7vm


 

 this looks nice


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> this looks nice


yep


----------



## Tomasz2D

golov17 said:


> 2016 Newest AUGLAMOUR RX-1 In Ear Earphone Flat Head Plug High Quality Full Metal Earbud Headset Free Shipping


 
  
 Earbuds from ancient Aztecs? Very, very nice! Any info about this producer? Is it a newcomer in the earbuds world?


----------



## hellfire8888

it is just launch...no one tried yet..


----------



## audio123

tomasz2d said:


> Earbuds from ancient Aztecs? Very, very nice! Any info about this producer? Is it a newcomer in the earbuds world?


this producer produces good iems like ag r8


----------



## Tomasz2D

audio123 said:


> this producer produces good iems like ag r8


 
  
 OK, but is it their first attempt with earbuds?


----------



## kvad

golov17 said:


> 2016 Newest AUGLAMOUR RX-1 In Ear Earphone Flat Head Plug High Quality Full Metal Earbud Headset Free Shipping
> http://s.aliexpress.com/F7ZvE7vm


 
  
 I'm such a sucker - ordered a pair, just for the looks (and I don't even like stuffing metal in my ears).
 They're running a campaign for it on Twitter for a lower price: https://twitter.com/hckexin/status/753583028400627712
 (is it okay to post such campaign here in the thread? Not affiliated with HCK in any way).


----------



## Tomasz2D

New stuff has just arrived today. "Aztec axe" must wait.


----------



## kousik1946

Little off-topic. I just want to ask if xduoo x3 can drive zen 2. I will buy an amp later. But I am asking if the DAP can handle zen 2 or not?


----------



## audio123

kousik1946 said:


> Little off-topic. I just want to ask if xduoo x3 can drive zen 2. I will buy an amp later. But I am asking if the DAP can handle zen 2 or not?


 

 not to full potential?


----------



## golov17




----------



## kousik1946

audio123 said:


> not to full potential?


 
 Is it enough or I will miss too much? I know it can't drive to its full potential.


----------



## audio123

kousik1946 said:


> Is it enough or I will miss too much? I know it can't drive to its full potential.


 
  
 that is subjective


----------



## kousik1946

audio123 said:


> that is subjective


 
 So it is not possible? What do you think?


----------



## audio123

kousik1946 said:


> So it is not possible? What do you think?


 

 depends on u!


----------



## Tomasz2D

kousik1946 said:


> So it is not possible? What do you think?


 
 You can use Zen 2.0 even with smartphone but afterwards you will invest in better amp and afterwards you will invest in better amp and afterwards you will invest in better amp and afterwards you will invest in better amp... and then you will reach Nirvana.


----------



## Tomasz2D

kvad said:


> I'm such a sucker - ordered a pair, just for the looks (and I don't even like stuffing metal in my ears).


 
 Post your first impressions when you get your Aztec Axe. What color did you choose?


----------



## mochill

Ty hi-z Hp400s is very transparent and open with and smooth full powerful sound that is not missing anything


----------



## kvad

tomasz2d said:


> Post your first impressions when you get your Aztec Axe. What color did you choose?


 
  
 ​Will do - got the black(ish) version.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

darkzenith said:


> *TY Hi-Z HP400* (but it's not an "absolute" choice since it's a *warm and bassy *earbud. It's the absolute best warm and bassy earbud available today IMHO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 This is...an interesting list.
  
 Surprised to see no Rose Mojito, Ostry KC08 or even Zen 2 here.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kvad said:


> ​Will do - got the black(ish) version.


 
 Yes please do let us know. These buds look so pretty. But not sure I want to buy something unless it sounds great.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Anyone else want to chime in on their perspective of the best earbuds in the world?


----------



## DarkZenith

tayyab pirzada said:


> This is...an interesting list.
> 
> Surprised to see no Rose Mojito, Ostry KC08 or even Zen 2 here.


 
 I don't have any Rose (too expensive) or Ostry (yet) and I dislike very much VE Zen V2 with its hollow, wobbly bass and toneless mids, with or without foams, amped or not.(Of course this is only _my_ opinion about them.)
 This list includes only earbuds I've been enjoying for a good amount of time and recommended in some guides for french audiophile forum Tellement Nomade (http://www.tellementnomade.org/guide-de-noel-2014-lannee-de-tellementnomade-en-accelere/4/, http://www.tellementnomade.org/guide-de-noel-2015/4/)


----------



## Fabi

mochill said:


> Ty hi-z Hp400s is very transparent and open with and smooth full powerful sound that is not missing anything


 
 Mo, do you have TY Hi-Z HP-32 to compare?
 I am curently loving it. Curious to know if they share the same sound with smooth treble, airy soundstage and lifelike vocals. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Bass and treble can still be better.
 The HP-400 may be too bassy for my taste and I don't know about HP-320.


----------



## kurtextrem

tayyab pirzada said:


> Anyone else want to chime in on their perspective of the best earbuds in the world?


 
 My absolute best earbud currently is the Asura 2.0 (I don't own Zen 2.0, but Cygnus, Tomahawk, Monk, Monk+, AKG Y16... see my profile )
  
  
 but daaaaammmmn AUGLAMOUR RX-1 looks really great. Must. resist.


----------



## Tomasz2D

kvad said:


> ​Will do - got the black(ish) version.


 
  
 All colors are so nice but it looks like gold rush deprived me of my senses and I have just ordered Golden Aztec Axe !!! LOL


----------



## Danneq

They've got a really nice steampunk look.

 But looks isn't everything. Especially when it comes to head- and earphones...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

kurtextrem said:


> daaaaammmmn AUGLAMOUR RX-1 looks really great. Must. resist.


 
  
 Trying to resist myself, not sure how much longer I can hold out....   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
help me...  
  
 --


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> They've got a really nice steampunk look. But looks isn't everything. Especially when it comes to head- and earphones...


 
 At the worst, you will hang them on the wall.


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> At the worst, you will hang them on the wall.


 

 Or use as a necklace. Perhaps a gift to the wife/girlfriend. A nice pair of metal earrings...


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> They've got a really nice steampunk look.


 
  
 Yeah, steampunk or on the second thought... they look like they are coming from that Alien/Xenomorph/Engineer spaceship.


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> All colors are so nice but it looks like gold rush deprived me of my senses and I have just ordered Golden Aztec Axe !!! LOL


Silver for me


----------



## Fabi

bloodypenguin said:


> Trying to resist myself, not sure how much longer I can hold out....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  


kurtextrem said:


> My absolute best earbud currently is the Asura 2.0 (I don't own Zen 2.0, but Cygnus, Tomahawk, Monk, Monk+, AKG Y16... see my profile )
> 
> 
> but daaaaammmmn AUGLAMOUR RX-1 looks really great. Must. resist.


 
  
 The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  H.F.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

fabi said:


> The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I must yield then..
  
 --


----------



## kvad

tayyab pirzada said:


> Yes please do let us know. These buds look so pretty. But not sure I want to buy something unless it sounds great.


 
  
 Share your skepticism - the enclosure and packaging must have eaten up a larger portion of the budget than normal. Still, at USD 20 I felt it was worth the gamble.


----------



## jrazmar

kvad said:


> Share your skepticism - the enclosure and packaging must have eaten up a larger portion of the budget than normal. Still, at USD 20 I felt it was worth the gamble.




How were you able to buy this at $20? Price I'm seeing is around $27. I can't resist. This is just damn pretty earbuds! Hope it sounds as good as it looks.


----------



## vapman

Does anyone have any of the Koss earbuds on hand?
 I was looking thru some Koss stuff at a store and saw 2 different models of earbuds. They don't seem to be anything new, but i forget if they were good/had potential.


----------



## vapman

I'm waiting for impressions first this time around 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 had enough risking $ on unknown buds lately. not that any of my recent investments were bad.... i don't wanna have bad luck 
  


bloodypenguin said:


> Trying to resist myself, not sure how much longer I can hold out....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  


jrazmar said:


> How were you able to buy this at $20? Price I'm seeing is around $27. I can't resist. This is just damn pretty earbuds! Hope it sounds as good as it looks.


 
  
 back 1 page & at the top...


----------



## jrazmar

vapman said:


> I'm waiting for impressions first this time around
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 thanks vapman. does this mean we need to send the store owner a PM before we add this to the cart or checkout? sorry not sure how to do it or I just need to tell that I'm mr. golov's friend.


----------



## vapman

jrazmar said:


> thanks vapman. does this mean we need to send the store owner a PM before we add this to the cart or checkout? sorry not sure how to do it or I just need to tell that I'm mr. golov's friend.




With aliexpress. It is not obvious but you can make an order without paying for it at the same time. Do the option to pay later. Send a message to the store you are so and so and will pay when the price is adjusted. Wait, pay, done


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> With aliexpress. It is not obvious but you can make an order without paying for it at the same time. Do the option to pay later. Send a message to the store you are so and so and will pay when the price is adjusted. Wait, pay, done


Yes, write a message and wait for the seller. My price has been adjusted in this way 
 Also, I could not resist about Ostry. Ordered kc08t, see what they do


----------



## Rizky Octayudha

fabi said:


> Mo, do you have TY Hi-Z HP-32 to compare?
> I am curently loving it. Curious to know if they share the same sound with smooth treble, airy soundstage and lifelike vocals.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Elibuds Sabia bro
  
 I Recommend (y)


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

golov17 said:


> Yes, write a message and wait for the seller. My price has been adjusted in this way
> Also, I could not resist about Ostry. Ordered kc08t, see what they do


 
 My top 3 buds right now are Rose Mojito, Ostry KC08, and Shozy Cygnus.
  
 The KC08 has some really phenomenal bass.


----------



## music4mhell

jrazmar said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > I'm waiting for impressions first this time around
> ...


 
 Add the product to cart, go to payment page, select other payment method and on next page cancel it.
 It will say payment unsuccessfull and in your my account it will show as payment awaited.
  
 Then message the Seller, he can adjust the price in ur cart, but he can't adjust until you perform this activity.
 He directly can't change the price of product in ur cart.


----------



## music4mhell

tayyab pirzada said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, write a message and wait for the seller. My price has been adjusted in this way
> ...


 
 If KC08 can have better mids, that will be my best earbud  Sad i didn't like the mids of KC08.
 So i never listened to it more than 3/4 times in last 4 months.


----------



## jrazmar

@vapman , @golov17 , @music4mhell  thank you all for the help. I will try it today. Im currently sitting on my office chair spoiled by my Zen 2.0. Imagining what will replace it as my current earbud champion. Still waiting for the Edimun V3. Anyone here who have heard it? Have not read any report in this thread. How's the sound so far?


----------



## vapman

Progress in English is probanly better tracked on the Bengkel thread than here but as I understand it t next batch of edimun v3 should be out soon. Red Demon is probably sold out now but mayb not?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Short reviews of my top buds here. I'm still waiting to find the ultimate champion of earbuds.
  
 1.) Shozy Cygnus - epic vocals and mids, bass is sort of weak though present, warm sounding. Great all-rounder. Especially great for R&B music. Not so good for instrumental music.
  
 2.) Rose Mojito - probably my favourite bud right now. Really well defined blooming bass, enormous soundstage, and clinical/digital tonality. I use it as an all-rounder but it is mainly geared for instrumental and jazz music. But I enjoy hip-hop with it too. Mids/vocals are recessed compared to Shozy Cygnus, and very neutral (not warm at all).
  
 3.) Ostry KC08 - Really great bass, perfect for hip-hop. Highs are done very well also. Nice V-shaped signature. Soundstage is fairly wide, and instruments sound very nice with it. Only problem is the mids/vocals which are recessed and "Dry" sounding. 
  
 Right now I think the best overall earbud is the Rose Mojito, although it is a cold sound signature, while the best warm earbud I am still on the lookout for.
  
 I wish there was a bud that combined the bass and highs of Ostry KC08, and the mids/vocals of Shozy Cygnus, with the soundstage of Rose Mojito. If anyone knows of such a bud, please tell me. That would be THE ultimate bud.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

jrazmar said:


> @vapman , @golov17 , @music4mhell  thank you all for the help. I will try it today. Im currently sitting on my office chair spoiled by my Zen 2.0. Imagining what will replace it as my current earbud champion. Still waiting for the Edimun V3. Anyone here who have heard it? Have not read any report in this thread. How's the sound so far?


 
 I ordered Edimun V3, with gold connector, as well. Want to see what all the hype is about. I enjoyed the stock Edifier H180's also. Great bass, but very low detail - which is to be expected from a cheap earbud.


----------



## mochill

you need to try zen 2.0 black edition and ty hi-zhp400s


----------



## music4mhell

mochill said:


> you need to try zen 2.0 black edition and ty hi-zhp400s


 
 Any difference between ty hi-zhp400s and Seahf LD.4 400 ?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

mochill said:


> you need to try zen 2.0 black edition and ty hi-zhp400s




Both require some serious amping. I ordered a Fiio E12A. Do you think that would be able to run both?


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> Both require some serious amping. I ordered a Fiio E12A. Do you think that would be able to run both?


 

 grab a Cayin C5 and never look back. Speaking from experience.
  
 The Bengkel bMac 3CH MK2 is also exceptional, although the C5 offers a bit more output power. not that you'll be using that much unless you're trying to bass bomb full size headphones though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I can easily recommend either amp. I am pretty sure the bMac even with EMS shipping from Indonesia is less than the E12A goes for and might be less than the C5. Also if you need interconnects Bengkel could hook you up... they make really nice ones.
  
 I don't currently have a C5 since I got my bMac but it's very likely I'd get one again if I saw a really good deal on a used one!


----------



## p0mg

mochill said:


> you need to try zen 2.0 black edition and ty hi-zhp400s


 how are your hp400s? what is the soundsig?


----------



## Tomasz2D

mochill said:


> you need to try zen 2.0 black edition and ty hi-zhp400s


 
 And speaking of Zen 2.0. Black Edition...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Alright peeps, seeing as everyone here is mentioning the 400Ohm earbuds (and for the sake of myself for future reference), I am going to attempt to list down all currently available buds by SeaHF. (Starting from low to high impedance)

*32 Ohms *
  
 (TY HI-Z)
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5-c.w4002-13354342823.23.PqTFSq&id=529399390775
  
*150 Ohms*
  
 (Seahf 150 Ohm V1 Cooper Cable RMB 148)
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-2705102940.96.0BTOKn&id=42321913930
  
 (Seahf 150 Ohm V2 Silver Plated Cable RMB 168)
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-2705102940.96.0BTOKn&id=42321913930 
  
 (TY 150)
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c-s.w4002-14533981774.41.EZstXR&id=526969327877

 (Earphone Association 150 Ohm)
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-1958545936.24.xD9HHG&id=524818853872
  
*320 Ohms*

 (Seahf 320 Ohm V1 RMB 248)
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-2705102940.111.0BTOKn&id=525608265905
  
 (Seahf 320 Ohm V2 RMB 299)
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-2705102940.111.0BTOKn&id=525608265905
  
 (TY HP320M)
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c-s.w4002-14533981774.50.EZstXR&id=528763539106
  
 (TY 320)
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c-s.w4002-14533981774.53.EZstXR&id=528848980907
  
 (Earphone Association 320)
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-1958545936.27.xD9HHG&id=524820529079
  
*400 Ohms*
  
 (TY 400)
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c-s.w4002-14533981774.59.EZstXR&id=527058136949
  
 (TY 400 New Tuning: More Balanced)
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c-s.w4002-14533981774.62.EZstXR&id=534683947369
  
 (Earphone Association 400)
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.59.u31Oh1&id=525116914319&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail
  
  
*Note :*
  The differences in version maybe minor and according to Teiba Baidu of SeaHF, most seem to agree that TY Buds are tuned towards a more "balanced" sound signature while original SeaHF Buds are tunned more laid-back or "listening feel".
  
 Hope this becomes a reference post.
 Cheers!


----------



## Tomasz2D

audionewbi3 said:


> Alright peeps, seeing as everyone here is mentioning the 400Ohm earbuds (and for the sake of myself for future reference), I am going to attempt to list down all currently available buds by SeaHF. (Starting from low to high impedance)


 
 Thanks for this great wrap-up because I already was confused which is which.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> grab a Cayin C5 and never look back. Speaking from experience.
> 
> The Bengkel bMac 3CH MK2 is also exceptional, although the C5 offers a bit more output power. not that you'll be using that much unless you're trying to bass bomb full size headphones though.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the suggestion. I probably will look into that when I start getting high impedence buds.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

So does anyone else want to say what their absolute favourite bud is? What is the best bud in the entire world in your opinion?


----------



## kurtextrem

I heard the DIY Dual Driver are similar to the rose, so it might be best (in price) too


----------



## AudioNewbi3

kurtextrem said:


> I heard the DIY Dual Driver are similar to the rose, so it might be best (in price) too


 
 DIY dual drivers are basically just Mojito minus the good bass and treble extension and detail. A very good (and only alternative I think) if you want the sound of Mojito at a cheaper price (compromised)


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tomasz2d said:


> Thanks for this great wrap-up because I already was confused which is which.


 
 Welcome mate!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> Does anyone have any of the Koss earbuds on hand?
> I was looking thru some Koss stuff at a store and saw 2 different models of earbuds. They don't seem to be anything new, but i forget if they were good/had potential.


 

  

  

  
 KOSS earbuds?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

audionewbi3 said:


> DIY dual drivers are basically just Mojito minus the good bass and treble extension and detail. A very good (and only alternative I think) if you want the sound of Mojito at a cheaper price (compromised)


 
 This. I have the DIY Dual Drivers. I want to sell it or give it away now that I've heard Mojito.


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> KOSS earbuds?


 
 Which are those you got?
  
 I could get these 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 i don't know what it's supposed to look like haha


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Which are those you got?
> 
> I could get these :confused_face_2: i don't know what it's supposed to look like haha


 Specifications for KOSS KMO10 Earbuds:
Frequency Response: 60 - 20,000 Hz
Without bass


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> Which are those you got?
> 
> I could get these
> 
> ...


 
 Mine are NOS vinatge KOSS earbuds which i bought from Taobao. They sound very "analogue"


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Wrapping my ears around the *MusicMaker/Toneking T0300 *tonight after burning in all day.
  

  

  
 --


----------



## audio123

Agrx1 metallic very slick looking


----------



## Tomasz2D

tayyab pirzada said:


> So does anyone else want to say what their absolute favourite bud is? What is the best bud in the entire world in your opinion?


 
 I will tell you if you tell me what is the best car in the entire world.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

tomasz2d said:


> I will tell you if you tell me what is the best car in the entire world.


 
 Notice I said 'in your opinion'. I want to hear peoples' opinions.


----------



## Tomasz2D

tayyab pirzada said:


> Notice I said 'in your opinion'. I want to hear peoples' opinions.


 
 I know, I know that we play this "what is the best..." game. I'm in. So what is the best car in the entire world in your opinion?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

tomasz2d said:


> I know, I know that we play this "what is the best..." game. I'm in. So what is the best car in the entire world in your opinion?


 
 No idea, not really into cars. But if we are talking earbuds, I think Rose Mojito is number 1, as far as I've heard.


----------



## Tomasz2D

tayyab pirzada said:


> No idea, not really into cars. But if we are talking earbuds, I think Rose Mojito is number 1, as far as I've heard.


 
 Rose Mojito is number 3. Number 1 is Zen 2.0 Black Edition and number 2 is Celsus Gramo One. That's according to prices


----------



## music4mhell

tomasz2d said:


> tayyab pirzada said:
> 
> 
> > No idea, not really into cars. But if we are talking earbuds, I think Rose Mojito is number 1, as far as I've heard.
> ...


 
 Price and quality doesn't have the positive correlation after crossing the threshold.


----------



## Tomasz2D

music4mhell said:


> Price and quality doesn't have the positive correlation after crossing the threshold.


 
 I know, I wasn't serious


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> Rose Mojito is number 3. Number 1 is Zen 2.0 Black Edition and number 2 is Celsus Gramo One. That's according to prices


 


Here's a pair of Sony MDR-E484 for $1500... (very much overpriced. They are now collectors items, but I would not pay more than $400 for a pair of E484 in good condition).

 I've seen a pair of Aiwa HP-V9 sold on German Ebay for over €800. And an auction on Japanese Yahoo auction for a pair of V9 that ended with much more than that in Yen.

A week ago a pair of V9 sold on Yahoo auction for 91000 Yen...

 But perhaps vintage earbuds cannot be compared to earbuds currently sold?

 I just know that my three favorites are all discontinued. I'd still say that Blox TM7 is the best earbud I've heard. Incredibly smooth sound that at the same time is very detailed and headphone like.

 I'm starting to think that I should buy Rose Mojito and compare it to my "huge soundstage" favorite Aiwa HP-D9. Now I just need $230...


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> I'm starting to think that I should buy Rose Mojito and compare it to my "huge soundstage" favorite Aiwa HP-D9. Now I just need $230...


 
  
 Somebody should start "rent-earbuds" service company so we could borrow them for couple of days and send back. We could save a lot of money.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> Here's a pair of Sony MDR-E484 for $1500... (very much overpriced. They are now collectors items, but I would not pay more than $400 for a pair of E484 in good condition).
> 
> I've seen a pair of Aiwa HP-V9 sold on German Ebay for over €800. And an auction on Japanese Yahoo auction for a pair of V9 that ended with much more than that in Yen.
> 
> ...


 
 Seeing as you already own some legendary buds, why not go ahead and round out the collection lol!
  
 EDIT : Never though of buying earbuds from Yahoo!JP, but now you have awaken me to the possibilities.......oh boy.....guess being able to read other languages is sometimes a big nono lol


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> Somebody should start "rent-earbuds" service company so we could borrow them for couple of days and send back. We could save a lot of money.


 
  
 Don't look at me!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But it would make life a lot easier for the most of us. And our wallets would be much happier.

 BTW, just sold my Gramo One. They are really good, but just not my type of sound...


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> Seeing as you already own some legendary buds, why not go ahead and round out the collection lol!
> 
> EDIT : Never though of buying earbuds from Yahoo!JP, but now you have awaken me to the possibilities.......oh boy.....guess being able to read other languages is sometimes a big nono lol


 


 You can use agents to buy from Yahoo auction. Just as when you buy from Taobao outside of China. I have bought some stuff (older Kenwood and JVC MP3 players and a pair of JVC clip on earphones) using Buyee and it has worked. There are other agents with lower fees, but Buyee is operated by Tenso, and they should know how to ship things overseas.

 The negative thing is that more expensive stuff bought through Buyee always gets caught in customs. Right now a JVC Alneo MP3 player is held hostage by Swedish post and I have to pay over 350 SEK to get it released...

 So you might have better luck with other agents...


----------



## luedriver

tomasz2d said:


> I will tell you if you tell me what is the best car in the entire world.


 
  
  
 that's easy 
  
its the bmw e39


----------



## dearyon

audionewbi3 said:


> Alright peeps, seeing as everyone here is mentioning the 400Ohm earbuds (and for the sake of myself for future reference), I am going to attempt to list down all currently available buds by SeaHF. (Starting from low to high impedance)
> 
> *32 Ohms *
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for this!
 Really have been interested in Seahf/TY Hi-Z buds but, you haven't mentioned about Seahf LD3.0 and LD4.0 that is on sale on AE so I assume that LD3.0 is their "V3" and LD4.0 is their "V4". CMIIW.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> You can use agents to buy from Yahoo auction. Just as when you buy from Taobao outside of China. I have bought some stuff (older Kenwood and JVC MP3 players and a pair of JVC clip on earphones) using Buyee and it has worked. There are other agents with lower fees, but Buyee is operated by Tenso, and they should know how to ship things overseas.
> 
> The negative thing is that more expensive stuff bought through Buyee always gets caught in customs. Right now a JVC Alneo MP3 player is held hostage by Swedish post and I have to pay over 350 SEK to get it released...
> 
> So you might have better luck with other agents...


 
  
 Yup, I use buyee too. However, the funny thing with mine is that customs always let it through. I bought an automatic GMT watch from Yahoo! Auction JP and it was delivered to me within 2 weeks, hassel free....... 

 Now should I buy some 2nd hand DAP (been eyeing AK100ii) for sometime now and the condition from Yahoo Auction is always sooo good! Or would you suggest some Kenwood MediaKegs?
  


dearyon said:


> Thanks for this!
> Really have been interested in Seahf/TY Hi-Z buds but, you haven't mentioned about Seahf LD3.0 and LD4.0 that is on sale on AE so I assume that LD3.0 is their "V3" and LD4.0 is their "V4". CMIIW.


 
  
 I honestly have no idea mate. What I complied is only based off of official Taobao stores. Maybe the LD 3.0. and L.D 4.0 are special production units supplied by SeaHF for international markets?


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> Yup, I use buyee too. However, the funny thing with mine is that customs always let it through. I bought an automatic GMT watch from Yahoo! Auction JP and it was delivered to me within 2 weeks, hassel free.......
> 
> Now should I buy some 2nd hand DAP (been eyeing AK100ii) for sometime now and the condition from Yahoo Auction is always sooo good! Or would you suggest some Kenwood MediaKegs?


 

 Well, consider yourself lucky that you do not live in Sweden! Customs are super strict and it's very rare that packages with a declared value over 500 SEK do not get customs fees placed on them. Luckily it's easier when I buy from Ali express since those sellers do not declare the true value...

 Kenwood Mediakegs are great MP3 players. But if you use FLAC or other lossless formats they are not for you. The old HDD Mediakegs require Kenwood Media Application software to update the database on the player, and that only works with Windows XP, Windows Vista (32 bit) & Windows 7 (32 bit). 
 The flash memory Mediakegs are just drag & drop and they update the database when you remove USB. Much better.

 Both sound great. HDD Mediakegs have got a lovely analogue type of sound while flash ones are more "digital sounding". Still the flash Mediakegs have got a wonderfully clear sound. I love 'em both but prefer the HDD sound.

 They may not beat most of current audiophile DAPs but they beat most of the MP3 players that were released around the same time as the HDD & flash Mediakegs (ca 2005-2011)...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> Well, consider yourself lucky that you do not live in Sweden! Customs are super strict and it's very rare that packages with a declared value over 500 SEK do not get customs fees placed on them. Luckily it's easier when I buy from Ali express since those sellers do not declare the true value...
> 
> Kenwood Mediakegs are great MP3 players. But if you use FLAC or other lossless formats they are not for you. The old HDD Mediakegs require Kenwood Media Application software to update the database on the player, and that only works with Windows XP, Windows Vista (32 bit) & Windows 7 (32 bit).
> The flash memory Mediakegs are just drag & drop and they update the database when you remove USB. Much better.
> ...


 
 Ah that is too bad if they do not play any form of Lossless audio as my files are mostly FLAC's. But seriously though, after buying the Mojito's I seriously feel no other urge to purchase anymore earbuds (save for the new blox maybe?)

 So maybe next step is to get into IEM's or upgrade a better DAP I reckoned? hahaha


----------



## Danneq

Well, later models of the HDD Mediakegs did play Kenwoods own lossless format (KLS or Kenwood Lossless). Kenwood never bothered with implementing KLS playback for the flash DAPs...
  
  
  

 Quote:


audionewbi3 said:


> But seriously though, after buying the Mojito's I seriously feel no other urge to purchase anymore earbuds (save for the new blox maybe?)



  
  
 Oh yeah, that almost mythical upcoming Blox flagship earbud. I hope to see it become reality!


----------



## kinetic758

bloodypenguin said:


> Wrapping my ears around the *MusicMaker/Toneking T0300* tonight after burning in all day.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




How does it sound compared to the Ting/Tomahawk?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

kinetic758 said:


> How does it sound compared to the Ting/Tomahawk?


 
  
 I'll try to find some time to compare them all this weekend.
  
 --


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> Don't look at me!  :tongue_smile:
> 
> 
> But it would make life a lot easier for the most of us. And our wallets would be much happier.
> ...


 Today I wanted to buy them from you, but missed, lol


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> New stuff has just arrived today. "Aztec axe" must wait.


well, what about ERQU? Interesting..


----------



## Tomasz2D

golov17 said:


> well, what about ERQU? Interesting..


 
  
 ERQU EQ100
  
 Nice retail box. The same shell as Shozy Cygnus. Soft, thin and very long, almost 200 cm cable.
  
 Plug it in. First thoughts: analog sound, vinyl record, tube amp, vintage audio equipment reminiscence.
  
 Narrower soundstage. Not airy, no echo. Scene distance placement - medium. Low/mid/high proportions - neutral. Not boomy, not bassy but on warmer side.
  
 Better for male vocals. Lively sound but not flashy and not showy. Grainy and a little bit harsh but in nice way - like overdriven guitar tube amp. I belive it can be used as allrounder.
  
 Most similar sounding, from earbuds that I own, is Hifiman ES100.
  
 I like it.


----------



## chicken beer

dearyon said:


> Thanks for this!
> Really have been interested in Seahf/TY Hi-Z buds but, you haven't mentioned about Seahf LD3.0 and LD4.0 that is on sale on AE so I assume that LD3.0 is their "V3" and LD4.0 is their "V4". CMIIW.


 

 FYI, for all those who want to try Zen 1.0 but can't find one, the Seahf 300 ohm 1st version is the exact same sound and design.


----------



## Fabi

rizky octayudha said:


> Elibuds Sabia bro
> 
> I Recommend (y)



Where to buy it ? Bro


----------



## dearyon

chicken beer said:


> FYI, for all those who want to try Zen 1.0 but can't find one, the Seahf 300 ohm 1st version is the exact same sound and design.


 
 Really? Exact same sound?
 though, I want to buy Seahf LD4.0 or TY Hi-Z 400s,  but can't decide which one to get 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 In need of great bass and  PRaT buds to enjoy my EDM collection to the fullest
  


fabi said:


> Where to buy it ? Bro


 
 Mass production is still in process. I think it will be ready around the end of this month.
 contact their page for more detail (FYI, I'm not affliated to this page)
 https://www.facebook.com/EliAudioIndonesia


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> Today I wanted to buy them from you, but missed, lol


 

 Too bad! Well, if you are lucky more pairs will turn up here on Head fi...


----------



## vapman

Tomasz2D
Interesting that you think same she'll as cygnus y similar sound to es100!

I loved es100 but after my 2nd warranty replacement broke, I decided i'd move on from the es100, but I never found its tonal equal,


----------



## chicken beer

dearyon said:


> Really? Exact same sound?
> though, I want to buy Seahf LD4.0 or TY Hi-Z 400s,  but can't decide which one to get
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I believe the new 400 ohms are better. Yes, EXACT same sound, exact same design/cable/driver match, just paint from 52VEcn to seahf.


----------



## Tympan

chicken beer said:


> FYI, for all those who want to try Zen 1.0 but can't find one, the Seahf 300 ohm 1st version is the exact same sound and design.


 

 Are you positive about that? I was told Seahf is the most similar to Zen 1 but not identical sound-wise.


----------



## chicken beer

tympan said:


> Are you positive about that? I was told Seahf is the most similar to Zen 1 but not identical sound-wise.


 
  
 The slight sound signature is arguably discoverable. Only Seahf maker knows. But they sound identical to my ears. Check this post:
 http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4302205952


----------



## Tympan

Thx! I've been told repeatedly they do not sound exactly the same... but I ordered a pair to compare with my own ears and will share my opinion later.


----------



## dearyon

tympan said:


> Thx! I've been told repeatedly they do not sound exactly the same... but I ordered a pair to compare with my own ears and will share my opinion later.


 
 You will be my wallet saver! patiently waiting for the comparison of both 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 

 Edit: And I heard that Seahf and VE have some relationship in the past. Could someone share me the story?


----------



## dearyon

chicken beer said:


> The slight sound signature is arguably discoverable. Only Seahf maker knows. But they sound identical to my ears. Check this post:
> http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4302205952


 
 and I really interested for someone to give me translation or summary of this story 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 machine translator do no good...


----------



## chicken beer

dearyon said:


> and I really interested for someone to give me translation or summary of this story
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 In short: Seahf maker was pissed off buy the Zen 2.0 maker who bit him on webside with some harsh statements such as Seahf maker does not know how to do high-impedance earbuds, and Seahf maker is kicked out of VE and VE will not play with Seahf maker anymore, (who obviously is not as professional in designing earbuds as the Seahf maker), and wrote a statement to tell others what really happened, and I find no more defense/answer on web from the Zen 2.0 maker to this statement, and believe that what Seahf maker said was quite true. 
  
 In the statement Seahf maker mentioned his contributions to the DIY earbud field, and what really happened during their collaboration. He also mentioned that his old 300 ohm earbuds are slightly different from Zen 1.0 due to differences in the processing and assembling the earbuds, although they are officially the same.
  
 You're welcome.


----------



## Fabi

tympan said:


> Are you positive about that? I was told Seahf is the most similar to Zen 1 but not identical sound-wise.



From what I read til now, it's the seahf 320 v1 which sounds the closest or same to zen 1.
TY 320m may be also too cos it was their first version but i've never seen someone has it. 
Then later, seahf 320 v2 and other versions 3.0 4.0 were released and sounded different from zen1.
I guess I would like TY HP-400s haha  on my list.


----------



## dearyon

chicken beer said:


> In short: Seahf maker was pissed off buy the Zen 2.0 maker who bit him on webside with some harsh statements such as Seahf maker does not know how to do high-impedance earbuds, and Seahf maker is kicked out of VE and VE will not play with Seahf maker anymore, (who obviously is not as professional in designing earbuds as the Seahf maker), and wrote a statement to tell others what really happened, and I find no more defense/answer on web from the Zen 2.0 maker to this statement, and believe that what Seahf maker said was quite true.
> 
> In the statement Seahf maker mentioned his contributions to the DIY earbud field, and what really happened during their collaboration. He also mentioned that his old 300 ohm earbuds are slightly different from Zen 1.0 due to differences in the processing and assembling the earbuds, although they are officially the same.
> 
> You're welcome.


 
 Thank you! good to know the truth
 Is this ok to say this on public? I'm a bit worried...


----------



## chicken beer

dearyon said:


> Thank you! good to know the truth
> 
> Is this ok to say this on public? I'm a bit worried...




I won't bother. Those who pay are the boss.


----------



## chicken beer

chicken beer said:


> I won't bother. Those who pay are the boss.




I mean I don't really think it's anything wrong to say it publically~


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Okay guys, just to clarify, I have chatted with SeaHf himself before on Taobao and would like to confirm 2 things:

 1) *Yes, SeaHf 320Ohm V1 indeed uses the same components as the Zen V1*
  
 2) *However, SeaHf 320Ohm V1 and Zen V1 DO NOT sound the same according to SeaHf! There is a slight tunning difference* (at least for my unit, when inquired).
  
 Hope this clears up some of the misconception


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Okay guys, just to clarify, I have chatted with SeaHf himself before on Taobao and would like to confirm 2 things:
> 
> 
> 1) *Yes, SeaHf 320Ohm V1 indeed uses the same components as the Zen V1*
> ...


 You would have asked him about the differences in LD4.0 400 vsTY400S


----------



## music4mhell

What's is the difference between TY Hi-z HP400s and Seahf LD 4.0 ?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Honestly I think im done with earbuds now after hearing Rose Mojito. Not sure if Zen 2 black edition is worth it. Its so expensive...


----------



## mochill

Definitely a couple class above mojito


----------



## vapman

mochill said:


> Definitely a couple class above mojito


 

 Do you own the Mojito?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

mochill said:


> Definitely a couple class above mojito




The only way Mojito can be made better is if the vocals and mids are made less recessed. It is truly a perfect bud in my opinion.


----------



## Tomasz2D

audionewbi3 said:


> Okay guys, just to clarify, I have chatted with SeaHf himself before on Taobao and would like to confirm 2 things:
> 
> 1) *Yes, SeaHf 320Ohm V1 indeed uses the same components as the Zen V1*


 
  
 Should be clarified that white color V1 has the same components because black color V1 has different "umbilical cord" type cable.


----------



## dearyon

golov17 said:


> You would have asked him about the differences in LD4.0 400 vsTY400S





music4mhell said:


> What's is the difference between TY Hi-z HP400s and Seahf LD 4.0 ?



I'd like to ask the same question 
+1 here


----------



## mochill

vapman said:


> mochill said:
> 
> 
> > Definitely a couple class above mojito
> ...


i have it , the new 3d printed one


----------



## music4mhell

mochill said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > mochill said:
> ...




Have you compared norm zen 2 and black edition ?
I m intersted in black edition, but i wanna know how much i am missing in my stock zen 2.0.


----------



## Saoshyant

Guys, I put up a review of a mod on the Original Monk by Crow Audio:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/814358/crow-audio-signature-edition-review


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> Have you compared norm zen 2 and black edition ?
> I m intersted in black edition, but i wanna know how much i am missing in my stock zen 2.0.


 

 I've yet to see any -good- comparisons of the 2.
 I've been wanting to order the black edition Zen 2 for a long time but haven't got around to it (need to try other new things)
 Most of the reason I wanted to get it is nobody could compare the two Zens.
 I also don't have a balanced player so I'll never know how Zen sounds balanced. But I've heard balanced KSC75 if that counts.


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

Do you guys have any recommendations for bluetooth earbuds? Just was a pair of buds for in the gym. Tried using my Monk+ and the earhoox things done a good job of keeping them in my ears but the cable is really annoying, snags on the bar and stuff.


----------



## mochill

already did a comparison and verdict is that black edition is a step above the 2.0 in everything


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

Damn there's a Red Demun on the for sale/trade forums but it's in America


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

zombiewinegum said:


> Damn there's a Red Demun on the for sale/trade forums but it's in America


 
 Just order Edimun V3 from Iriya


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

tayyab pirzada said:


> Just order Edimun V3 from Iriya


 
 Import costs will be awful since I'm in the uk. +20% vat and then whatever the import duties are.


----------



## vapman

zombiewinegum said:


> Import costs will be awful since I'm in the uk. +20% vat and then whatever the import duties are.


 

 I'm 99.9% sure if you ask them to do something on the customs form to avoid taxes for you they'll accomodate you.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> I'm 99.9% sure if you ask them to do something on the customs form to avoid taxes for you they'll accomodate you.




Yeah he did that for me


----------



## rggz

Some Blox B200 for sale, that's rare! (i think) 
 https://www.instagram.com/p/BH8pdgWADTU


----------



## vapman

rggz said:


> Some Blox B200 for sale, that's rare! (i think)
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BH8pdgWADTU


 

 lol, the headfi tag. gotta know your audience


----------



## golov17

I buy it 
#headfi


----------



## AudioNewbi3

rggz said:


> Some Blox B200 for sale, that's rare! (i think)
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BH8pdgWADTU


 
  
  


vapman said:


> lol, the headfi tag. gotta know your audience


 
  
  


golov17 said:


> I buy it
> #headfi


 
  
 Is the B200 the new Blox flagship?


----------



## golov17

Not flagship, just buds from Woo Fei
#blox


----------



## revokasi

finally got qian25 earbuds from group auctions,
 it has boomy bass and warm soundsignature, but has clear micro detail that can be hear from background,
 sightly more affordable than ve monk, due to i can not hear any micro detail from ve monk at all
 but need recabling due to pretty lack of treble, maybe because the cable build.
 I bit disappointed about its cable, looks cheap, thin and dull.
 So, I decide recabling using generic cable from ali,
 Its has massive improvement in treble, while not sacrificing the bass and the detail.
 pretty enjoyable than ve monk..


 https://s31.postimg.org/3qgbbo0h3/DSC03196.jpg
  
 https://s32.postimg.org/755xp6gu9/DSC03249.jpg

 https://s31.postimg.org/5iixhmpvr/DSC03240_1.jpg


----------



## golov17

Some pics kc08t  











http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/ostry-kc08t-hi-fi-in-ear-high-performance-earphones-headphones-for-iphone-and-android.html#.V4Sw9AGZII8.facebook
https://www.amazon.com/OSTRY-Performance-Earphones-Headphones-Android/dp/B01GPF334S


----------



## kurtextrem

is there any comparison for the blox be200?


----------



## golov17

kurtextrem said:


> is there any comparison for the blox be200?


don't know


----------



## audio123

just ordered TY Hi Z and TY Hi Z HP 32 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 time to venture into earbuds!


----------



## golov17

B&W


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

golov17 said:


> Some pics kc08t
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I love these. Awesome bass. Wish vocals were better but it's ok. Good for hip-hop.
  
 Also the cable is so soft and amazing with the nylon sleeve.


----------



## Saoshyant

For amazing vocals, I'm really loving the Crow Audio Signature Edition.  Great mod of a Monk.


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> I love these. Awesome bass. Wish vocals were better but it's ok. Good for hip-hop.
> 
> Also the cable is so soft and amazing with the nylon sleeve.


this not just kc08, but kc08t


----------



## audio123

audio123 said:


> just ordered TY Hi Z and TY Hi Z HP 32
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

@golov17 what do you think of them


----------



## luedriver

golov17 said:


> B&W


 
  
 do you have an official link? or perhaps these are prototypes and haven't been marketed yet....


----------



## golov17

luedriver said:


> do you have an official link? or perhaps these are prototypes and haven't been marketed yet....


only pics, sorry


----------



## golov17

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_96159_HiFiMAN-ES-100.html


----------



## haiku

golov17 said:


> http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_96159_HiFiMAN-ES-100.html


 

 I have ´em. Monk trounces them easily imho.


----------



## Alex CY

haiku said:


> I have ´em. Monk trounces them easily imho.


 
 Monks are good $5 headphones, but unfortunately, they are not even in the same league.


----------



## haiku

alex cy said:


> Monks are good $5 headphones, but unfortunately, they are not even in the same league.


 

 I respectfully disagree.


----------



## Saoshyant

Hmm, haven't compared those two yet...  I really should.


----------



## audio123

any impression of yuin ok1 vs ve zen


----------



## Saoshyant

Wow, I forgot just how good the sub bass was on the ES100 with a decent seal.


----------



## Tomasz2D

rggz said:


> Some Blox B200 for sale, that's rare! (i think)
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BH8pdgWADTU


 
 Selling via Instagram? Very peculiar way of distribution. What kind of buyer protection does Instagram have?


----------



## vapman

I had and wanted to love the es100 so much but the left driver can go bad so easily if your music has any bass. Be very gentle w them if you get them.




tomasz2d said:


> Selling via Instagram? Very peculiar way of distribution. What kind of buyer protection does Instagram have?




Only paypal's buyer protection


----------



## haiku

vapman said:


> I had and wanted to love the es100 so much but the left driver can go bad so easily if your music has any bass.


 
 Yup, that´s my experience, too.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

So actually what category is the Blox B200 supposed to be in? Are they flagship? Old buds? Which level are they positioned at?


----------



## audio123

may be an iem but experience is as good as earbud


----------



## AudioNewbi3

audio123 said:


> may be an iem but experience is as good as earbud


 
 Mojito sounding?


----------



## vapman

Why on earth would you knowingly post a headphone in the wrong section @audio123


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> So actually what category is the Blox B200 supposed to be in? Are they flagship? Old buds? Which level are they positioned at?


maybe, be5,7 level, soon...


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> may be an iem but experience is as good as earbud


 http://www.head-fi.org/t/631894/stax-sr-002-srm-002-and-srm-003-mk2-srm-003-impression-and-appreciation-thread


----------



## audio123

audionewbi3 said:


> Mojito sounding?


 
 i havent heard the mojito yet. i just venture into earbuds recently


vapman said:


> Why on earth would you knowingly post a headphone in the wrong section @audio123


 

 technically speaking it gives me the same fitting as earbud so yea. sound is unlike iem sound


----------



## kinetic758

golov17 said:


> B&W




Really curious if those earbuds will ever make it to production. Can't find any information anywhere about those.

Edit: found this - http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=a21h8.7987923.10003.19.BZbr7o&id=520550820458

Not sure if these are legitimate.


----------



## mochill

^^^


----------



## mochill

golov17 said:


> audio123 said:
> 
> 
> > may be an iem but experience is as good as earbud
> ...


that is an earbud


----------



## golov17

I have written a message, waiting for answer, I can probably get them, not sure


----------



## audio123

mochill said:


> that is an earbud


 

 honestly i think stax is an earbud


----------



## vapman

It would be great if we could drop the topic of the Stax IEMs guys. They have their own thread and should not even be discussed in this thread honestly. golov already very helpfully linked you guys to the proper thread for discussion of those IEMs, thank you.
  
 Quote:


kinetic758 said:


> Really curious if those earbuds will ever make it to production. Can't find any information anywhere about those.
> 
> Edit: found this - http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=a21h8.7987923.10003.19.BZbr7o&id=520550820458
> 
> Not sure if these are legitimate.


 
 Not claiming to know one way or another but I did visit that taobao page. It kept loading more and more photos the more I kept trying to load more of the page, i'm not sure i'm convinced they actually sell anything to be honest, and if they do, if it's anything more than buying things thru a middleman?
  
 Awful lot of photography for a lack of descriptions of what they sell.


----------



## audio123

based on those chinese words, it has a similar resemblance to https://www.amazon.com/Bowers-Wilkins-C5-S2-Headphones/dp/B00NOOX36M


----------



## Tomasz2D

audio123 said:


> honestly i think stax is an earbud


 
 No, these are on-ear headphones


----------



## Saoshyant

Let's just end this. You can use jvc spiral tips with the stax, it's an IEM.


----------



## mochill

They should invent a electrostatic earbud


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

mochill said:


> They should invent a electrostatic earbud


 
 Rose Mojito is the closest thing


----------



## nihontoman

tayyab pirzada said:


> Rose Mojito is the closest thing


 
 have you heard the  stax?


----------



## vapman

Does anyone have *both* the SeaHf 320 and the TY Hi-Z 320?
 Is one notably brighter or are they about the same?
  
 Alternately, we were talking about the ES100 earlier and now I'm hoping to find anohter bud that sounds similar or identical, but minus the reliability issues... especfially with bass.


----------



## Danneq

Has Blox stopped using http://bloxearphone.com/?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

nihontoman said:


> have you heard the  stax?




No but @vapman has


----------



## dearyon

danneq said:


> Has Blox stopped using http://bloxearphone.com/?


 
 I heard that B200 is a series of Blox that specially made for Thailand customer
 and I know that seller from Indonesia who can do some kind of channeling to get B200 out from thailand, because he is friend of Woo (the builder)
 CMIIW


----------



## vapman

dearyon said:


> I heard that B200 is a series of Blox that specially made for Thailand customer
> and I know that seller from Indonesia who can do some kind of channeling to get B200 out from thailand, because he is friend of Woo (the builder)
> CMIIW


 

 It is new Blox (unlikely) or old leftover stock?
  
 I couldn't find a thing about them in a day of on & off googling.
  


danneq said:


> Has Blox stopped using http://bloxearphone.com/?


 
  
 It is why I don't think it's a new Blox product. Plus, instgram is a private sales kind of thing, nobody who is a store sells via IG.


----------



## dearyon

vapman said:


> It is new Blox (unlikely) or old leftover stock?
> 
> I couldn't find a thing about them in a day of on & off googling.
> 
> ...


 
 I believe it is new series from them that the distribution is limited to Thailand customer only. But please someone with more truth about this correct me if I'm wrong.
 We should wait for my senior @Joy Boy to clarify things up. I heard this information from him.
 about why he sell via IG, it is the way he sell his earbuds from long time ago and he is one of the most trusted earbuds seller in Indonesia.
 And I think it is because he have limited stock that he sell it that way. Haven't seen he selling Blox B200 in his online store.


----------



## vapman

Cool, I am interested to hear about them even if I don't get a set 

I am pretty happy with my earbud stash overall for now...


----------



## audio123

Are earspeakers like Final Audio Design Piano Forte actually earbuds?


----------



## mochill

They are hybrid design ear buds , also dunu alpha 1 is one too


----------



## vapman

audio123 said:


> Are earspeakers like Final Audio Design Piano Forte actually earbuds?


 

 It would be appreciated if IEM talk was kept to IEM threads. we only have one earbuds thread and it would be ideal to keep it on topic please.


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> audio123 said:
> 
> 
> > Are earspeakers like Final Audio Design Piano Forte actually earbuds?
> ...


 
 +100, i was about to say that, but i thought it will be too rude.
 Please there are billions of threads for IEMs, lets keep this thread only for Earbud talks.


----------



## ngoshawk

vapman said:


> It would be appreciated if IEM talk was kept to IEM threads. we only have one earbuds thread and it would be ideal to keep it on topic please.




+1000...take it elsewhere. I enjoy thi thread too much, and have learned about MANY great earbuds as a result. This has broadened my horizon, and lightened my wallet!


----------



## kinetic758

Torn. Should I pull the trigger on the Rose Mojito or the Mx985? Looking for a great, dependable and durable all arounder that I can plug directly into my phone (for listening in my office at work). No DAC or amp.


----------



## vapman

kinetic758 said:


> Torn. Should I pull the trigger on the Rose Mojito or the Mx985? Looking for a great, dependable and durable all arounder that I can plug directly into my phone (for listening in my office at work). No DAC or amp.


 

@Tayyab Pirzada is the only person i know of that has heard both of these?
 If i'm not mistaken he got one of those newly-discovered new in box mx985's?
 i've never had the chance to hear a mx985 yet.
  
 edit: Not sure you'll get the mojito full effect without an amp, it does like some power, not mandatory, but i would suggest it...


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kinetic758 said:


> Torn. Should I pull the trigger on the Rose Mojito or the Mx985? Looking for a great, dependable and durable all arounder that I can plug directly into my phone (for listening in my office at work). No DAC or amp.




I bought both and have made reviews for both.

Just trust me on this. You are going to love the Rose Mojito way more. It really WOW'ed me. MX985 not so much.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Also if you want MX985 only because of the volume control buttons, what you can do is what i did:

Buy a TF10 2-pin Lune MKIII silver alloy cable from Null Audio with included buttons and volume control, and just use that with Rose Mojito.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I returned my MX985 after a day. I liked Shozy Cygnus more than it in fact.


----------



## vapman

any 2  pin will work really, I used the 2 pin cables I use with my Aurisonics with the Mojito


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Oh and you definitely need at least a good DAP for using Mojito if not an amp or DAC. My friend tried it on his phone and he wasn't impressed. Then he tried it on my AK Jr and it blew him away.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> any 2  pin will work really, I used the 2 pin cables I use with my Aurisonics with the Mojito




Yeah. The best quality one to offer a remote with button controls is the Lune cable though.


----------



## kinetic758

tayyab pirzada said:


> Oh and you definitely need at least a good DAP for using Mojito if not an amp or DAC. My friend tried it on his phone and he wasn't impressed. Then he tried it on my AK Jr and it blew him away.




Hm. Perhaps the Mojito isn't ideal then? I really do want a simple setup (since this is for work). I suppose more "mid-level" earbuds are sufficient for my current needs? I do enjoy the Cygnus that I have now but just want to really get the best that's possible (for my very simple work setup).


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kinetic758 said:


> Hm. Perhaps the Mojito isn't ideal then? I really do want a simple setup (since this is for work). I suppose more "mid-level" earbuds are sufficient for my current needs? I do enjoy the Cygnus that I have now but just want to really get the best that's possible (for my very simple work setup).


 
 What's your setup? Mojito are low impedence (16 Ohm) so they should work with anything theoretically. I'm just saying a good DAP and amp would be better.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kinetic758 said:


> Hm. Perhaps the Mojito isn't ideal then? I really do want a simple setup (since this is for work). I suppose more "mid-level" earbuds are sufficient for my current needs? I do enjoy the Cygnus that I have now but just want to really get the best that's possible (for my very simple work setup).


 
 Honestly if you want to use the Mojito properly or even make your Cygnus sound a hundred times better, just get something like the Dragonfly DAC. It looks like a USB key and you can bring it around with you. You just connect it to your phone and then plug your earbuds into it. It will be sufficient for high-end sound out of your earbuds.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Here's a proposal:
  
 Since this thread isn't being updated anymore, does anyone want to volunteer to consolidate info about new earbuds in one place somehow here in this thread? That way we can see a ranking type format, and not have to go through hundreds of pages of comments to figure out what's good.


----------



## audio123

tayyab pirzada said:


> Here's a proposal:
> 
> Since this thread isn't being updated anymore, does anyone want to volunteer to consolidate info about new earbuds in one place somehow here in this thread? That way we can see a ranking type format, and not have to go through hundreds of pages of comments to figure out what's good.


 
 ve zen 2.0 is still top hehe


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

audio123 said:


> ve zen 2.0 is still top hehe


 
 Meh, some people say it's overrated. I haven't even tried it. I LOVE the Mojito. They are my fav bud atm.


----------



## haiku

audio123 said:


> ve zen 2.0 is still top hehe


 

 edit


----------



## kinetic758

tayyab pirzada said:


> Honestly if you want to use the Mojito properly or even make your Cygnus sound a hundred times better, just get something like the Dragonfly DAC. It looks like a USB key and you can bring it around with you. You just connect it to your phone and then plug your earbuds into it. It will be sufficient for high-end sound out of your earbuds.


 

Thanks for this. My only headphone setup is my phone (Galaxy S6). I don't mind a DAC in that form factor so it's definitely something I would consider. 

Would you consider the Mojito somewhat durable? I like to bring earbuds during travel and prefer to not have to worry about babying them (of course I would be putting them in a hardcase when not in use).


----------



## vapman

I thought they felt pretty well built, obviously don't drop them or anything but they could survive a fall unblemished i think.
  
  
 the paint on the older ones was a little cheap/sketchy looking but the new all silver ones look a lot more professional.


----------



## Tomasz2D

kinetic758 said:


> Torn. Should I pull the trigger on the Rose Mojito or the Mx985? Looking for a great, dependable and durable all arounder that I can plug directly into my phone (for listening in my office at work). No DAC or amp.


 
 If something stops me from trying Mojito is that it was repeatedly stated here that Mojito is similar to DIY PHEB01 Dual Drivres and I do not like these. The scene presentation is like you are in big stadium gig and it may be ok for some sort of recordings like rock guitar recordings but I don't like it for jazz, classical or other recordings that require more intimate presentation. I would say MX985 would be more safe as allrounder becouse they offer good main-stream kind of sound presentation whereas PHEB01 may be OK as your 2nd or 3rd earbud with that strange kind of sound presentation. Well, unless you just like this kind of 3D scene presentation and you always use Dolby Surround for stereo recordings on your other audio set-ups.


----------



## music4mhell

tayyab pirzada said:


> audio123 said:
> 
> 
> > ve zen 2.0 is still top hehe
> ...


 
 My mojito is on way, i will compare Zen 2 and Mojito.


----------



## Makahl

music4mhell said:


> My mojito is on way, i will compare Zen 2 and Mojito.


 

 I'll love but in this time, please take longer listening to this earbud, I haven't bought Zen 2 because your thoughts seems a bit confused or something like new toy syndrome, best example here http://i.imgur.com/OYT99Y6.jpg =)


----------



## Tomasz2D

makahl said:


> I'll love but in this time, please take longer listening to this earbud, I haven't bought Zen 2 because your thoughts seems a bit confused or something like new toy syndrome, best example here http://i.imgur.com/OYT99Y6.jpg =)


 
  
 Or you mean honeymoon phase syndrome?


----------



## music4mhell

makahl said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > My mojito is on way, i will compare Zen 2 and Mojito.
> ...


 
 Yes to be frank, it takes time to put a view.
 Initially i felt Cygnus is better than Zen 2, but after long listening Zen 2 is always a clear winner.
 Yup true, may be we put biasness towards any new toy we buy


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tomasz2d said:


> If something stops me from trying Mojito is that it was repeatedly stated here that Mojito is similar to DIY PHEB01 Dual Drivres and I do not like these. The scene presentation is like you are in big stadium gig and it may be ok for some sort of recordings like rock guitar recordings but I don't like it for jazz, classical or other recordings that require more intimate presentation. I would say MX985 would be more safe as allrounder becouse they offer good main-stream kind of sound presentation whereas PHEB01 may be OK as your 2nd or 3rd earbud with that strange kind of sound presentation. Well, unless you just like this kind of 3D scene presentation and you always use Dolby Surround for stereo recordings on your other audio set-ups.


 
  
 Hmm, surprisingly, I actually prefer the Mojitos for Jazz (Non vocal) and Classical and Orchestral pieces. Piano, cymbals, and oboe just sound so holographic an crisp with them. Whil counterbass, french horns, and drums have a very well rounded omph to them. 


music4mhell said:


> My mojito is on way, i will compare Zen 2 and Mojito.


 
 Looking forward to your comparisons!


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kinetic758 said:


> Thanks for this. My only headphone setup is my phone (Galaxy S6). I don't mind a DAC in that form factor so it's definitely something I would consider.
> 
> Would you consider the Mojito somewhat durable? I like to bring earbuds during travel and prefer to not have to worry about babying them (of course I would be putting them in a hardcase when not in use).


 
 Mojito comes with a braided cable and a durable hard cable. The latter makes it very durable. You can always order another one online as well. I ordered a Lune MKIII silver alloy cable with volume and stop/play button controls, in a nylon sleeve, for my Mojito.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

tomasz2d said:


> If something stops me from trying Mojito is that it was repeatedly stated here that Mojito is similar to DIY PHEB01 Dual Drivres and I do not like these. The scene presentation is like you are in big stadium gig and it may be ok for some sort of recordings like rock guitar recordings but I don't like it for jazz, classical or other recordings that require more intimate presentation. I would say MX985 would be more safe as allrounder becouse they offer good main-stream kind of sound presentation whereas PHEB01 may be OK as your 2nd or 3rd earbud with that strange kind of sound presentation. Well, unless you just like this kind of 3D scene presentation and you always use Dolby Surround for stereo recordings on your other audio set-ups.


 
 The Mojito is completely different sounding from DIY Dual Drivers. The bass attack on Mojito is simply astounding.
  
 And yes the vocals/mids are slightly recessed. In that case another bud would be better. But after hearing both, I believe Shozy Cygnus is better than MX985.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

audionewbi3 said:


> Hmm, surprisingly, I actually prefer the Mojitos for Jazz (Non vocal) and Classical and Orchestral pieces. Piano, cymbals, and oboe just sound so holographic an crisp with them. Whil counterbass, french horns, and drums have a very well rounded omph to them.
> Looking forward to your comparisons!


 
 I use Mojito with everything now. It is my absolute favourite bud.


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> Mojito comes with a braided cable and a durable hard cable. The latter makes it very durable. You can always order another one online as well. I ordered a Lune MKIII silver alloy cable with volume and stop/play button controls, in a nylon sleeve, for my Mojito.


any link?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

golov17 said:


> any link?


 
 https://www.null-audio.com/products/lune-series-mkiii-premium-upgrade-cable-for-earphones


----------



## Danneq

I'd say that Cygnus is warmer than MX985. But MX985 is far more neutral. There is a good reason for ClieOS to put it in the very top of his list...
However, since it is discontinued prices will often be much higher than when they were still in production. 

Over $150? Think twice. Over $200? Find something else.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

danneq said:


> I'd say that Cygnus is warmer than MX985. But MX985 is far more neutral. There is a good reason for ClieOS to put it in the very top of his list...
> However, since it is discontinued prices will often be much higher than when they were still in production.
> 
> Over $150? Think twice. Over $200? Find something else.


 
 Yeah the MX985 was good but it wasn't worth over $200. And on sound signature alone, I prefer Cygnus and Mojito. Even Ostry KC08t I prefer over it. But these are my biases.


----------



## vapman

@Danneq when you say more neutral, are we talking near ES100 levels?
  
 I'm looking for something higher end that  had the same kind of neutrality/flatness as the ES100 but with maybe some more bass and more reliable.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> @Danneq when you say more neutral, are we talking near ES100 levels?
> 
> I'm looking for something higher end that  had the same kind of neutrality/flatness as the ES100 but with maybe some more bass and more reliable.


 
 The bass on MX985 just sucks...Sorry, but it's a bud I really wanted to love, but my ears told me we can't be together.


----------



## luedriver

mochill said:


> that is an earbud


 
  


saoshyant said:


> Let's just end this. You can use jvc spiral tips with the stax, it's an IEM.


 
  
  
 even earbuds can be converted into in-ear, and visa-versa, but may change the sound originally intended
  
Comply had some tips to convert the older apple earbuds into iems, and philips, dunu, and other brands make large iems that look like earbuds covered up with a nozzle that fits in your ear....
  
 well that's just my 2 cents, on the subject


----------



## Danneq

tayyab pirzada said:


> Yeah the MX985 was good but it wasn't worth over $200. And on sound signature alone, I prefer Cygnus and Mojito. Even Ostry KC08t I prefer over it. But these are my biases.




I might invest in a pair of Mojito. Mainly becaise I want to see how they compete with Aiwa HP-D9 when it come to size of the soundstage and details. I've been planning on buying Ostry KC08 for a while. Tried them in a shop in Japan but such short time wasn't enough to evaluate their sound. Cygnus is really good but I prefer Tomahawk to them (even if Cygnus technically is better).




vapman said:


> @Danneq
> when you say more neutral, are we talking near ES100 levels?
> 
> I'm looking for something higher end that  had the same kind of neutrality/flatness as the ES100 but with maybe some more bass and more reliable.




ES100 is much darker sounding than MX985. I'd say that Astrotec Lyra/Lyra6 (?) is closer to ES100.


----------



## vapman

Mojito I am going to add back to my lineup too, because of the new silver versions that look a lot better than the old ones, and I'm curious to hear what the re-tuning is like.
  
 On another note. Where can I get earbud shells for normal driver sizes for less $ than a Monk and ideally not destroying something as cool as a Monk?
  
 Anyway I want to bust the drivers out of some IEMs with big DD's and put them in earbud shells and try them there.


----------



## Tomasz2D

audionewbi3 said:


> Hmm, surprisingly, I actually prefer the Mojitos for Jazz (Non vocal) and Classical and Orchestral pieces. Piano, cymbals, and oboe just sound so holographic an crisp with them. Whil counterbass, french horns, and drums have a very well rounded omph to them.
> Looking forward to your comparisons!


 
  


tayyab pirzada said:


> The Mojito is completely different sounding from DIY Dual Drivers. The bass attack on Mojito is simply astounding.
> 
> And yes the vocals/mids are slightly recessed. In that case another bud would be better. But after hearing both, I believe Shozy Cygnus is better than MX985.


 
  
 Oh, so Mojitos are like DIY Dual Drivers or not? How would you describe scene presentation in Mojitos? Stadium gig/club gig/living room with big stereo speakers setup/room with 5.1 surround setup or different?


----------



## Saoshyant

@kinetic758 Do you still need advice on MX985 vs Mojito?  If so I'll compare the two and get back to you.  I'd prefer the comparison to be fresh in my mind instead of going off memories which are a bit faulty.


----------



## Tomasz2D

saoshyant said:


> @kinetic758 Do you still need advice on MX985 vs Mojito?  If so I'll compare the two and get back to you.  I'd prefer the comparison to be fresh in my mind instead of going off memories which are a bit faulty.


 
 It will be interesting for me as well so go ahead.


----------



## Saoshyant

I'll try to get to it tomorrow, I have a bit of a headache right now and putting anything in my ears will only make it worse.  Only over ears for the rest of my day.


----------



## endia

vapman said:


> Mojito I am going to add back to my lineup too, because of the new silver versions that look a lot better than the old ones, and I'm curious to hear what the re-tuning is like.
> 
> On another note. Where can I get earbud shells for normal driver sizes for less $ than a Monk and ideally not destroying something as cool as a Monk?
> 
> Anyway I want to bust the drivers out of some IEMs with big DD's and put them in earbud shells and try them there.


 
  
 vapman, you can find lots of here:
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/Earphone-Shell/1203111_259522229.html


----------



## kinetic758

saoshyant said:


> @kinetic758
> Do you still need advice on MX985 vs Mojito?  If so I'll compare the two and get back to you.  I'd prefer the comparison to be fresh in my mind instead of going off memories which are a bit faulty.




This would be fantastic. And a big thanks to the rest of you for all your insightful inputs.


----------



## kinetic758

danneq said:


> I'd say that Cygnus is warmer than MX985. But MX985 is far more neutral. There is a good reason for ClieOS to put it in the very top of his list...
> However, since it is discontinued prices will often be much higher than when they were still in production.
> 
> Over $150? Think twice. Over $200? Find something else.




Yes, this was exactly my thoughts. I can only get a new MX980 for $215, so I wondered if I could do better for the money (hence the Mojito). I was going to also bring up the Gramo One, but some research seemed to indicate it was a somewhat average earbud for the money.


----------



## golov17

Can anyone say what type of connectors used in the Rose Mojito? Any link?


----------



## audio123

golov17 said:


> Can anyone say what type of connectors used in the Rose Mojito? Any link?


 






 
  
  
 Earphone Interface Type: TF 2pin Interface
  
@golov17


----------



## audio123

repost
 -deleted-


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> Can anyone say what type of connectors used in the Rose Mojito? Any link?




Normal 2-pin


----------



## audio123

vapman said:


> Normal 2-pin


 

 on the listing , it says tf 2 pins so i assume triple fi 10 pins


----------



## mochill

Tf10 2pin


----------



## audio123

mochill said:


> Tf10 2pin


tons of cable options


----------



## golov17




----------



## fairx

Hi guys. 
Anybody ever open or pry their ting / tomahawk? 

My tomahawk Cable turns verrry stiff from splitter upwards they stand like stethoscope.. Maybe because I wear them over ear? (Highly doubt it though)

I'm preparing for recable if the time comes when the cable gave up. Any suggestions? 

Looking at the links of earbud shell really give me ideas not juts recable but also reshell.


----------



## dearyon

fairx said:


> Hi guys.
> Anybody ever open or pry their ting / tomahawk?
> 
> My tomahawk Cable turns verrry stiff from splitter upwards they stand like stethoscope.. Maybe because I wear them over ear? (Highly doubt it though)
> ...


 
 I have no courage to open my Tomahawk housing, it is glued hard 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 and if you change the housing, the sound will be different.


----------



## fairx

dearyon said:


> I have no courage to open my Tomahawk housing, it is glued hard
> 
> and if you change the housing, the sound will be different.


Hehe. Maybe I'll juts order another when my cable went south. Change in sound sig can't be avoided, yes. But it might be fun to experiment. 

You're using tomahawk too? How's your cable? Mine is 2015 version.


----------



## vapman

Anybody know or tried these? Look similar to the E100 
  
*ALSO: has anyone tried both the Boarseman earbuds?? *curious to know if i should get k25 or mx98... or at least what they are similar to?
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-shipping-Original-DIY-HIFI-Metal-Earphones-Heatshrinked-Mobile-Phone-PC-Sports-Mp3-Bass-Headset-With/1825606_32376503629.html


----------



## golov17

mx98s dark sound good  




K25s light good  




VJJB dark, but not very good


----------



## golov17

But, very recommended Qian25 and Ty Hi-Z 32. Very good


----------



## vapman

@golov17
 mx98s very dark? darker than zen?


----------



## golov17

Check out this recommended store on AliExpress. Find great products at low prices!
 http://s.aliexpress.com/uYRBRbUn


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> @golov17
> 
> mx98s very dark? darker than zen?


Nono, similar, i like this


----------



## ngoshawk

golov17 said:


> Check out this recommended store on AliExpress. Find great products at low prices!
> http://s.aliexpress.com/uYRBRbUn




Too many choices...bad for wallet....


----------



## kurtextrem

ngoshawk said:


> Too many choices...bad for wallet....


 
 I see the AUGLAMOUR RX-1. Any impressions yet?


----------



## ngoshawk

kurtextrem said:


> I see the AUGLAMOUR RX-1. Any impressions yet?




I have VERY little experience with Chinese buds, outside of the "normal" ones such as VE, Fiio, and IEM's (not to mentioned here, lol).

Two of your best bets would be:

golov17
vapman


----------



## golov17

kurtextrem said:


> I see the AUGLAMOUR RX-1. Any impressions yet?


on my way


----------



## ngoshawk

Lol, day late and a dollar short as usual, I am...


----------



## kurtextrem

golov17 said:


> But, very recommended Qian25 and Ty Hi-Z 32. Very good


 
 Can you please compare to the Monk(+)?


----------



## dearyon

fairx said:


> Hehe. Maybe I'll juts order another when my cable went south. Change in sound sig can't be avoided, yes. But it might be fun to experiment.
> 
> You're using tomahawk too? How's your cable? Mine is 2015 version.


 
 Yes. Mine is 2016 version, my cable is a bit green already but have no problem with it, the softness is getting better actually


----------



## vapman

Yeah I didn't buy the Auglamor but i'm waiting for reviews too


----------



## golov17

kurtextrem said:


> Can you please compare to the Monk(+)?


 I, Monk darker and faster attenuation of echoes


----------



## Tomasz2D

> I'd say that Astrotec Lyra/Lyra6 (?) is closer to ES100.


 
@vapman Yes, I can only confirm above. Lyra 6 (and I can talk only about "6" ver.) is similar to ES100. So it would be Lyra 6 and EQ100 the closest and if you are looking for also similar sound balance but with a little broader scene and more energetic and deeper bass you could become acquainted with this little stranger:


----------



## vapman

Dang. I'll have to give it a shot then.


----------



## dearyon

sir @golov17, which one has the best vocal between Qian25, TY Hi-Z and k25s?

 and I want to ask for someone who had both Zen 2 with Zen 1/Seahf 400 ohm to tell me short comparison (in your opinion ofc)
 something like this format:

 High = X better > X less netter
 Mids = X better > X less better
 Low = X better > X less better
 Staging and Imaging = X better > less better
 Details and Separation = X better > X less better
 Overall = X better > X less better

 I'm currently saving up money real hard to get one of those buds, but can't decide which one to buy. Thank in advance


----------



## mochill

^^^^ ty hi-z hp32


----------



## golov17

Sorry, I'm not a writer, I like vocal more on k25s


----------



## dearyon

mochill said:


> ^^^^ ty hi-z hp32


 
  


golov17 said:


> Sorry, I'm not a writer, I like vocal more on k25s


 
 No problem sir, actually all I need is a simple and honest answer like these 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 thank you for both of you


----------



## jamesbdh

vapman said:


> Anybody know or tried these? Look similar to the E100
> 
> *ALSO: has anyone tried both the Boarseman earbuds?? *curious to know if i should get k25 or mx98... or at least what they are similar to?
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-shipping-Original-DIY-HIFI-Metal-Earphones-Heatshrinked-Mobile-Phone-PC-Sports-Mp3-Bass-Headset-With/1825606_32376503629.html


 
 I would not recommend. i think just the H180 are better are just basic ones


----------



## vapman

I'm gonna buy some of these Cygnus style shells and put stuff like SeaHf driver in them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/PK-Earphone-Cover-A8-PK1-PK2-PK3-DIY-Headphone-Shell-Cover/1203111_2027342576.html
  
 Thanks @endia


----------



## istlove

Would you recommend the earbuds like old monk sounds?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> I'm gonna buy some of these Cygnus style shells and put stuff like SeaHf driver in them
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Cygnus shell is so comfortable


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

So what's the big deal with Seahf anyway? What makes them so good?


----------



## audio123

Waiting for my 150ohm ty hi-z


----------



## vapman

I can't speak for anyone else but I liked the SeaHf 400 ohm for its ability to bass bomb harder than any earbud i know.
 actual tangible sub bass.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Any other good qualities? How about vocals/mids? Soundstage?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Ostry KC08t and Mojito also have good sub bass


----------



## vapman

I have a review on the Seahf 400, but vocals/mids are not their specialty.
  
 You can find earbuds which focus on midrange and vocals with no effort, therefore I appreciated Seahf for putting those two on the backburner to instead focus on things earbuds usually don't offer, like good V shaped signautres that are fun, but not too much separation for details, so i would say there are better buds for stage and detailing as well, but Seahf (and the other ones I know like it so that includes Fareal and whatever else) excels in places most earbuds have never tried to go?
  
 P.S. I know that's not the right spelling. it's something weird like Frarerl, you know what i mean though.


----------



## kinetic758

tayyab pirzada said:


> Mojito comes with a braided cable and a durable hard cable. The latter makes it very durable. You can always order another one online as well. I ordered a Lune MKIII silver alloy cable with volume and stop/play button controls, in a nylon sleeve, for my Mojito.




I recall reading that the cable to earphone connector was a bit fragile. Is this something to be concerned about?


----------



## mochill

I'm not concerned anymore, been sleeping with mojito


----------



## kinetic758

mochill said:


> I'm not concerned anymore, been sleeping with mojito


 
 Thanks!  Would I be doing the Mojito's a disservice by only using a cell phone?  I looked into using a separate DAC/AMP, but my phone is apparently not compatible.


----------



## mochill

What phone dac\amp


----------



## kinetic758

mochill said:


> What phone dac\amp


 
 It's a Samsung Galaxy S6.  Apparently, it's not easy to setup audio through USB (especially for offline Spotify files), so it makes it difficult for my current setup.


----------



## music4mhell

kinetic758 said:


> mochill said:
> 
> 
> > What phone dac\amp
> ...


 
 Are you sure ?
 Please check in developer options, there is an option "Disable Audio through USB".
  
 All android phone which has OTG, can supply digital Audio out to DAC.


----------



## ld100

Just got this bad boy. Sounds great on a first few tracks!
  
 How long is a burnin time?
  
 So is Rose even better? Worth $200 better?


----------



## kinetic758

music4mhell said:


> Are you sure ?
> Please check in developer options, there is an option "Disable Audio through USB".
> 
> All android phone which has OTG, can supply digital Audio out to DAC.


 
 From what I understand, the issue is more with Spotify and how it doesn't play nice with audio through USB.  Unfortunately,  a good portion of my new music is now with Spotify.


----------



## music4mhell

kinetic758 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Are you sure ?
> ...


 
 I have Zero collection, i only listen to Apple music.
  
 My setup Oneplus one > Chord Mojo > Zen 2/ Cygnus/ HD650


----------



## kinetic758

music4mhell said:


> I have Zero collection, i only listen to Apple music.
> 
> My setup Oneplus one > Chord Mojo > Zen 2/ Cygnus/ HD650


 
  
 Interesting.  Not sure if it has to do with Spotify offline music and how it copyright protects it.
  
 In either case, I've just placed my order for the Mojito's.  Either I'll be compelled to get a DAC/AMP, or I'll be underwhelmed with just playing it on my phone and you'll soon see these in the classifieds


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kinetic758 said:


> It's a Samsung Galaxy S6.  Apparently, it's not easy to setup audio through USB (especially for offline Spotify files), so it makes it difficult for my current setup.


 
 Get Dragonfly DAC for your phone and never look back


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

ld100 said:


> Just got this bad boy. Sounds great on a first few tracks!
> 
> How long is a burnin time?
> 
> So is Rose even better? Worth $200 better?


 
 Rose Mojito is not "better" than Cygnus per se, just different. 
  
 Cygnus is absolutely fantastic mids/vocals. I have not heard a better bud than Cygnus for that yet. 
  
 But Mojito is better bass and soundstage. It is different enough that it is worth getting both in my opinion.


----------



## kinetic758

tayyab pirzada said:


> Get Dragonfly DAC for your phone and never look back


 
  
 I actually looked into that DAC after your initial recommendation.  There appears to be some issues with Android + Galaxy S6 + Marshmallow build + Spotify.  If I was listening primarily to my own, ripped music then I think there would be no issues.  Unfortunately, I quite enjoy what Spotify has to offer.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kinetic758 said:


> I actually looked into that DAC after your initial recommendation.  There appears to be some issues with Android + Galaxy S6 + Marshmallow build + Spotify.  If I was listening primarily to my own, ripped music then I think there would be no issues.  Unfortunately, I quite enjoy what Spotify has to offer.


 
 Oh...try to see if any other phone DAC's might work.


----------



## kinetic758

tayyab pirzada said:


> Oh...try to see if any other phone DAC's might work.


 
 Also looked into the Chord Mojo and there's also issues with the Samsung + Spotify.  I'm beginning to think it's more an issue with how Spotify handles offline files.  I may have to switch my streaming music carrier if I intend to use a DAC/AMP at work.
  
 Best case scenario is that I'm completely happy with the sound straight from my phone and I live in ignorant bliss


----------



## vapman

I just ordered my new Mojito so I will try it out of my phone when it gets here, haha. I never thought to use it on such plebian sources 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







  
 (All joking aside, it was great with any DAP i used it with directly, so I wouldn't be worried, that said, I should try it myself before making any statements I want people to listen to)


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Well it's only 16 ohm impedance so it should work with any phone theoretically


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> Well it's only 16 ohm impedance so it should work with any phone theoretically


 

 Here's a case where going by impedance alone is a tricky thing:
  
 The legendary E100 earbells (shame QC went out the window on those and they became hopeless to find a good set) were rated at *32 ohms* yet with almost complete certainty I can tell you almost no phone or laptop alone could give it the amount of power it wanted. Almost guarenteed you could have it almost at full volume and be pissed off that it wasn't loud as it should be. always needed an amp or a vintage receiver that put out gobs of high gain power.
  
 Another headphone that's 16 ohms, can be driven by a phone, but is capable of taking s***loads of power is the JVC SZ series, you can get them to great volume with any phone or laptop, but you could easily push 2 or 3 watts to them and they wouldn't complain one bit!
  
 In both cases going by the impedance alone doesn't tell the full story


----------



## ballog

vapman said:


> I just ordered my new Mojito so I will try it out of my phone when it gets here, haha. I never thought to use it on such plebian sources
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 If anyone has an old Fiio E10 DAC lying around you might want to know that you can you use it with an android phone. I have a chinese phone (Umi eMax) and it works flawlessly directly with my Fii E10 (original). It works with both USB Audio Player Pro and Neutron. I love this setup with my earbuds especially TY Hi-Z 32, VE Monk+ and it nice to have the bass boost at times (plus there's the high and low gain switch). I'm so happy that I've thought of trying this setup last year. Its like i've upgraded my source for free (the E10 had been lying around unused for a few years) - hardly use my iBasso DX50 since!


----------



## vapman

Not sure why but i'm tempted to try the Tomahawk again, despite hating it first time around.
  
 Any reason to get a ting lite instead? want a cheap bud, not tryin to spend Ting money, just bought a mojito.


----------



## kurtextrem

mochill said:


> ^^^^ ty hi-z hp32


 
 is there any difference between the hi-z hp32 and the new 2016 32ohm version?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I have yet to find the bud I am looking for:
  
 One with the soundstage and detailing of Mojito, the bass of Ostry KC08t at least or Seahf 400, and the vocals/mids of Shozy Cygnus or Edimun V3.
  
 That would be THE ultimate bud.


----------



## ld100

vapman said:


> Not sure why but i'm tempted to try the Tomahawk again, despite hating it first time around.
> 
> Any reason to get a ting lite instead? want a cheap bud, not tryin to spend Ting money, just bought a mojito.


 
  
 I still hate my Tomahawk...


----------



## vapman

ld100 said:


> I still hate my Tomahawk...


 

 You know it wouldn't hurt to just have another 5 monk+'s...


----------



## jrazmar

wh not try the Zen 2.0? if you don't like it, you can post it in the For Sale thread.


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> ld100 said:
> 
> 
> > I still hate my Tomahawk...
> ...


 
 I have used my Tomahwak only for 2/3 times.
 But i love my Ting


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> Not sure why but i'm tempted to try the Tomahawk again, despite hating it first time around.
> 
> Any reason to get a ting lite instead? want a cheap bud, not tryin to spend Ting money, just bought a mojito.


 

 As everyone knows, I love my Tomahawks. But if you didn't like them the first time I do not think that your impression of them will change. Ting has got the same sort of "metallic" sound that Tomahawk has got but the presentation is very different. Not in your face at all but much more laid back.

 When I looked through the Ali express app for Android yesterday I saw that the seller who's name shall not be mentioned was selling Ting for $57 or 58. It was the listing where you can buy Ting and Tomahawk together. You can also choose to buy either Ting or Tomahawk only. That same listing through a browser shows much higher prices...


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> Not sure why but i'm tempted to try the Tomahawk again, despite hating it first time around.
> 
> Any reason to get a ting lite instead? want a cheap bud, not tryin to spend Ting money, just bought a mojito.


 
  
 Ting (standard) is closer to ES100 and Tomahawk is totally different. Although I am aware that there are opinions here that Tomahawk and Ting are similar but I disagree.


----------



## Tomasz2D

istlove said:


> Would you recommend the earbuds like old monk sounds?


 
  
 From the range that I own the closest to original Monk would be Sennheiser MX 475. In fact Monk is pretty unique. There are a lot of earbuds with this kind of soft V-shaped signature but each is missing something compared to Monk. By the way, I wonder how low impendence Seahf / TY models compare to Monk (is it the same creator?) ?


----------



## luedriver

kurtextrem said:


> is there any difference between the hi-z hp32 and the new 2016 32ohm version?


 
  
  
 any way you can you tell which one is the new one?
  
 I just bought one from penon audio


----------



## Saoshyant

@kinetic758 Ok, first off, as I don't have a way to accurately volume match, the best I can provide is estimates.  Listening to both the Mojito and MX985, to my ears the bass is more forward on the Mojito where it's a little laid back on the MX985.  Vocals feel a little recessed on the MX985 compared to the Mojito.  Vocals also feel a little closer on the MX985 compared to the Mojito.  Treble feels a little more pronounced on the Mojito vs the MX985 where it feels a little laid back.  Detail is good on both, but the Mojito to my ears certainly is more detailed and clear.  The Mojito all in all feels very accurate, which might reflect poorly on bad recordings, where the MX985 is nice, relaxed and laid back, reminding me of Grado, but I haven't heard one in awhile so that may not be accurate.  Pros of the Mojito other than the sound aspects which are entirely subjective are the detachable cable, amazing comfort in my experience, plus the probable ease of resale given the current popularity if it doesn't work out for you.  Pros of the MX985 are it seems to be slightly easier to drive than the Mojito, being a little louder at a set volume than the Mojito, a volume slider and adjustable jack on the cable, & Sennheiser's trusted brand and their willingness to help with their products.  Many people without a doubt will point towards the Mojito as king of Sound Stage, so with my depth perception issues I can use that as a second opinion.  If I were trying to be objective, I'd say the Mojito is the superior earbud in most respects, and owning both feels unnecessary except for collection purposes.  The MX985 is still a very good earbud, but everything I like about it, the Mojito feels like it does it better, although the MX985 might be easier for long listening sessions for some.  Honestly, and this is kind of off topic, I think I prefer the Crows Audio Signature Edition over the MX985.


----------



## Tomasz2D

saoshyant said:


> Many people without a doubt will point towards the Mojito as king of Sound Stage, so with my depth perception issues I can use that as a second opinion.


 
  
 How would you describe sound stage reproduction on both? Do you feel it is natural? When you close your eyes, to which place both models teleport you


----------



## music4mhell

saoshyant said:


> @kinetic758 Ok, first off, as I don't have a way to accurately volume match, the best I can provide is estimates.  Listening to both the Mojito and MX985, to my ears the bass is more forward on the Mojito where it's a little laid back on the MX985.  Vocals feel a little recessed on the MX985 compared to the Mojito.  Vocals also feel a little closer on the MX985 compared to the Mojito.  Treble feels a little more pronounced on the Mojito vs the MX985 where it feels a little laid back.  Detail is good on both, but the Mojito to my ears certainly is more detailed and clear.  The Mojito all in all feels very accurate, which might reflect poorly on bad recordings, where the MX985 is nice, relaxed and laid back, reminding me of Grado, but I haven't heard one in awhile so that may not be accurate.  Pros of the Mojito other than the sound aspects which are entirely subjective are the detachable cable, amazing comfort in my experience, plus the probable ease of resale given the current popularity if it doesn't work out for you.  Pros of the MX985 are it seems to be slightly easier to drive than the Mojito, being a little louder at a set volume than the Mojito, a volume slider and adjustable jack on the cable, & Sennheiser's trusted brand and their willingness to help with their products.  Many people without a doubt will point towards the Mojito as king of Sound Stage, so with my depth perception issues I can use that as a second opinion.  If I were trying to be objective, I'd say the Mojito is the superior earbud in most respects, and owning both feels unnecessary except for collection purposes.  The MX985 is still a very good earbud, but everything I like about it, the Mojito feels like it does it better, although the MX985 might be easier for long listening sessions for some.  Honestly, and this is kind of off topic, I think I prefer the Crows Audio Signature Edition over the MX985.


 
 Thank u so much for such detailed explanation.
 It takes a lot of time to write.
 Thanks again buddy. My mojito just reached my city PO. I am excited to to use them as my daily driver with Chord Mojo.
 Hope so it will replace my Zen 2.


----------



## Saoshyant

@Tomasz With the Mojito & listening to an orchestrated piece that also has a central singer, the singer certainly feels to be close and the focal point of the music, the chorus feels properly spaced from the singer, as do the instruments.  With a live recording (Nirvana Unplugged), spacing feels fairly decent, but by no means spread out like the Chorus for the previous song.  All in all, I suspect there's a possibility Mojito might feel artificially spread out, but honestly it sounds entirely accurate to what I'd expect.
  
 With the MX985 on the orchestrated piece, both the singer and chorus/instruments feel noticably closer.  With a live recording where the members are not all that spread out (Nirvana Unplugged) everyone feels rather close together.  To my ears, it feels closer together than it probably should, but I admit due to my horrible depth perception I might be misreading.
  
 Sorry if that's not enough information, as I am a truly horrible judge of sound stage.  I will say identifying direction on the Mojito is quite easy, and on the MX985 it's solid but not quite as clear.
  
@music4mhell I really hope you like the Mojito/Mojo pairing.  I use my Dap as a transport for the Mojo and it's just lovely.  It's very well might be the best sub-$1000 purchase in this hobby.
  
 Also, I should post a side note.  Versus a solid vocals-based earbud, the Mojito feels a little analytical and maybe digital where there can be improvement in this respect even in noticeably less expensive earbuds.


----------



## kinetic758

saoshyant said:


> @kinetic758
> Ok, first off, as I don't have a way to accurately volume match, the best I can provide is estimates.  Listening to both the Mojito and MX985, to my ears the bass is more forward on the Mojito where it's a little laid back on the MX985.  Vocals feel a little recessed on the MX985 compared to the Mojito.  Vocals also feel a little closer on the MX985 compared to the Mojito.  Treble feels a little more pronounced on the Mojito vs the MX985 where it feels a little laid back.  Detail is good on both, but the Mojito to my ears certainly is more detailed and clear.  The Mojito all in all feels very accurate, which might reflect poorly on bad recordings, where the MX985 is nice, relaxed and laid back, reminding me of Grado, but I haven't heard one in awhile so that may not be accurate.  Pros of the Mojito other than the sound aspects which are entirely subjective are the detachable cable, amazing comfort in my experience, plus the probable ease of resale given the current popularity if it doesn't work out for you.  Pros of the MX985 are it seems to be slightly easier to drive than the Mojito, being a little louder at a set volume than the Mojito, a volume slider and adjustable jack on the cable, & Sennheiser's trusted brand and their willingness to help with their products.  Many people without a doubt will point towards the Mojito as king of Sound Stage, so with my depth perception issues I can use that as a second opinion.  If I were trying to be objective, I'd say the Mojito is the superior earbud in most respects, and owning both feels unnecessary except for collection purposes.  The MX985 is still a very good earbud, but everything I like about it, the Mojito feels like it does it better, although the MX985 might be easier for long listening sessions for some.  Honestly, and this is kind of off topic, I think I prefer the Crows Audio Signature Edition over the MX985.




Thanks again for this great write up. Can you clarify what you mean when you said the MX985 has vocals that feel more recessed but at the same time "closer"? 

Also, did you try running them straight from a music player without a dac/amp?


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> Here's a case where going by impedance alone is a tricky thing:
> 
> The legendary E100 earbells (shame QC went out the window on those and they became hopeless to find a good set) were rated at *32 ohms* yet with almost complete certainty I can tell you almost no phone or laptop alone could give it the amount of power it wanted. Almost guarenteed you could have it almost at full volume and be pissed off that it wasn't loud as it should be. always needed an amp or a vintage receiver that put out gobs of high gain power.
> 
> ...




What made me take a chance with the Mojito was Penon's description:

 "*The full version Mojito is aimed at demonstrating its full strength on portable devices*. In addition, there is a piece of good news for audiophiles: we have discovered that the amazing potential of Mojito in the system combination of the top earphone and headphone amplifier. That is to say, matching with the more excellent front end, the sound of earphone will be more surprising. And for now, it potential limit has not been found yet."

So this gives me hope


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, in comparison, while the focal point of the vocals with the MX985 feels closer, the vocals felt a little quieter in my attempts to volume match the two.  So for the Mojito, they felt slightly further way but were more prominent.  This comparison was done straight from a gen 1 Fiio X5 as I just didn't feel like grabbing my Mojo to pair.


----------



## kurtextrem

luedriver said:


> any way you can you tell which one is the new one?
> 
> I just bought one from penon audio


 
 No idea, but on Aliexpress you can find two different versions.


----------



## Tomasz2D

@Saoshyant OK. Thanks for this comparison. I think I will still pass on Mojito but will closely follow its development. Also I may jump in if the price drops significantly.


----------



## vapman

I'm curious what they mean by "the full version Mojito"?

The flat red/blue ones like seen on the first post of this thread are the old ones.


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> I'm curious what they mean by "the full version Mojito"?


 
  
 Full version = you get both left and right earbud.


----------



## vapman

Are there really people only buying one side of a mojito???


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> Are there really people only buying one side of a mojito???


 
 Might be solution if one cannot afford full version


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> I'm curious what they mean by "the full version Mojito"?
> 
> The flat red/blue ones like seen on the first post of this thread are the old ones.




Perhaps a strange translation glitch? I'm assuming (and hopeful) that I get the newer, 3D printed model.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

tomasz2d said:


> Full version = you get both left and right earbud.


 
  
 I think the full version comes with cables, the other version does not....  I could be wrong..  but I think that is it.  
  
 --


----------



## luedriver

kurtextrem said:


> No idea, but on Aliexpress you can find two different versions.


 
 I [size=15.5556px]only[/size][size=15.5556px] [/size]see one
  
  
 I also found this one, which is making me have second thoughts on my purchase...


----------



## golov17

luedriver said:


> I [SIZE=15.5556px]only[/SIZE][SIZE=15.5556px] [/SIZE]see one


two


----------



## music4mhell

luedriver said:


> kurtextrem said:
> 
> 
> > No idea, but on Aliexpress you can find two different versions.
> ...


 
 When i ordered one OTG Micro usb dac cable from Penon, they gave this earbud as a complimentary gift


----------



## kinetic758

saoshyant said:


> ... If I were trying to be objective, I'd say the Mojito is the superior earbud in most respects, and owning both feels unnecessary except for collection purposes...


 
 My wallet (and wife) thank you.  I'll hold off on purchasing the MX985 for now.


----------



## music4mhell

kinetic758 said:


> saoshyant said:
> 
> 
> > ... If I were trying to be objective, I'd say the Mojito is the superior earbud in most respects, and owning both feels unnecessary except for collection purposes...
> ...


 
 Same here  Let me be lost in Zen 2, Cygnus, Mojito, HD650, Seahf 400


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Today is the first day in like a week im listening to anything other than the Mojito lol. Shozy Cygnus it is. Those forward mids are just so beautiful.


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> Today is the first day in like a week im listening to anything other than the Mojito lol. Shozy Cygnus it is. Those forward mids are just so beautiful.


 How?? as?? you still have not received Zen2.0 ?? It is a masterpiece of dark-sounding earbuds with excellent mids!


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> tayyab pirzada said:
> 
> 
> > Today is the first day in like a week im listening to anything other than the Mojito lol. Shozy Cygnus it is. Those forward mids are just so beautiful.
> ...


 
 +5


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

And...my Cygnus is green now. Even though I used silica gel lol. I don't mind too much, green cable looks cool.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

golov17 said:


> How?? as?? you still have not received Zen2.0 ?? It is a masterpiece of dark-sounding earbuds with excellent mids!


 
 Zen 2 is overrated lol. I will resist the urge and wait till VE Nirvana.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

In any case I would want the Zen 2 Black Edition but it's soo expensive


----------



## Tomasz2D

luedriver said:


> I [size=15.5556px]only[/size][size=15.5556px] [/size]see one
> 
> 
> I also found this one, which is making me have second thoughts on my purchase...


 
 A lot of AE sellers insert "2016" or other sort of rubbish like "Go Pro" into their listings headlines to lure potential buyers and to differentiate from other sellers. If you check out Penon Audio listings they are fair enought and keep their listings clean from this kind of rubbish. That's what we call fair-play.


----------



## golov17

I have two pairs of the Zen, and it does not over-valued, overvalued Zen1.0, IMHO


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

golov17 said:


> I have two pairs of the Zen, and it does not over-valued, overvalued Zen1.0, IMHO


 
 You have two Zen 2.0's?


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> You have two Zen 2.0's?


Yep, and two Cygnus, and two AKG K319


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

golov17 said:


> Yep, and two Cygnus, and two AKG K319


 
 Lol I'll trade you some money and DIY Dual Driver for one of your Zen 2's


----------



## Saoshyant

What are the current mid-range suggestions for a vocals based earbud? I know the Mojito can feel a little analytical and dry, and I'm really enjoying the Monk mod I have, so I'm curious what other suggestions there are.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

saoshyant said:


> What are the current mid-range suggestions for a vocals based earbud? I know the Mojito can feel a little analytical and dry, and I'm really enjoying the Monk mod I have, so I'm curious what other suggestions there are.


 
 Edimun V3 and Cygnus are entirely mid based


----------



## Saoshyant

Do either do well with orchestra/classical?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

saoshyant said:


> Do either do well with orchestra/classical?


 
 I'm still waiting for Edimun, but I really enjoy classical with Cygnus. But I like it more with Mojito.


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> Lol I'll trade you some money and DIY Dual Driver for one of your Zen 2's


Not for sale, sorry


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> Do either do well with orchestra/classical?


AKG K317,319


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Where can I find Zen 2 (preferably black edition) for cheap?


----------



## Saoshyant

golov17 said:


> AKG K317,319




Always meant to try those, had the K318 for awhile and liked it's vocals but it was prone to catastrophic failure. Had one have a short that melted something inside the earbud while listening, so never again for the 318.


----------



## vapman

I never received my replacement seahf 400, just remembered that...

Well certain store must get banned for a reason.. :/


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> Where can I find Zen 2 (preferably black edition) for cheap?


 I saw the usual Zen2.0 for sale online, but nowhere and never saw Black Edition for sale, in addition to the official store VE on AE


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> Where can I find Zen 2 (preferably black edition) for cheap?




Either classifieds or drop 140 or whatever it is to get it direct from VE (what I did)

BE is direct from VE only I believe. I think they are made to order.


----------



## Joy Boy

Sorry, a couple of work for last few days. Maybe too late, but i'll reply some post that interested for me.
Before that. I'm really interesting on that aztec axe. If someone has it, please share your impression. 
Once i know it's worth for its price, will buy it soon 



tayyab pirzada said:


> So does anyone else want to say what their absolute favourite bud is? What is the best bud in the entire world in your opinion?



Not best in entire world, just my top 4. Ve zen v1 > ve zen v2 > mx985 > blox be7. But i only keep 2 of them for now. Zen v1 as the best bud. And be7 as the best direct drive-bud (unamped)




audionewbi3 said:


> So actually what category is the Blox B200 supposed to be in? Are they flagship? Old buds? Which level are they positioned at?



Blox B200 is an entirely new type of blox. Not using any old driver/tuning. Woo said that the sound between m2c and blox be7.
Technically, it's an upgrade version of m2c. More transparent than be7, surprisingly. But not as wide as be7 soundstage. Less airy too. But for it's price, it's very worth to keep. AFAIK, it has the special Blox sound and quality 




dearyon said:


> I believe it is new series from them that the distribution is limited to Thailand customer only. But please someone with more truth about this correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> We should wait for my senior @Joy Boy
> to clarify things up. I heard this information from him.
> ...



Already replied it 
It has very limited stock. Actually, woo said that it's special type that he sold only in thailand. But fortunately, local seller (tukangketik) on indonesia could have some stock (not much) from woo


----------



## Tomasz2D

saoshyant said:


> What are the current mid-range suggestions for a vocals based earbud? I know the Mojito can feel a little analytical and dry, and I'm really enjoying the Monk mod I have, so I'm curious what other suggestions there are.


 
 Not necessarily mid-range but with good sounding vocals would be... guess what, you already own the one with good if not best vocal reproduction IMHO. Once, I have checked my earbuds for vocal and most natural human voice reproduction offered MX 985. And then there is Zen 2.0, Cygnus, Dunu Alpha 1, and DaiK DK-Jin Wooden. I will also mention here Final Audio Design Piano Forte II, although this one is very tricky - sort of very specialized earbud - good for classical and for some vocals.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tomasz2d said:


> Oh, so Mojitos are like DIY Dual Drivers or not? How would you describe scene presentation in Mojitos? Stadium gig/club gig/living room with big stereo speakers setup/room with 5.1 surround setup or different?


 
  
 To  my ears and perception, whenever I close my eyes, I feel like I am in an large concert hall, listening to an assemble from the front to middle roll of seating. After lending my mother the Mojito's, she also mentions the same thing, in that she felt like she was in a large concert hall, listening to opera.  
  


golov17 said:


> Can anyone say what type of connectors used in the Rose Mojito? Any link?


 
  
  


vapman said:


> Normal 2-pin


 
  
  


audio123 said:


> on the listing , it says tf 2 pins so i assume triple fi 10 pins


 
  
  


mochill said:


> Tf10 2pin


 
  
 FWIW, Rose Mojito utilizes TF10 2 Pin connectors with a male diameter of 0.75. The earbuds do not have a left or right. They are determined by how one plugs the cable into the bud. If you plug in the right cable on to blue side of Mojito, then blue will be right. On the original cable, the R and L markings should face outward to ensure correct polarity and avoid phase cancellation.
  
 Hope this helps.


tayyab pirzada said:


> So what's the big deal with Seahf anyway? What makes them so good?


 
  
 Buttery smooth mid range (on both 320 V1 and V2, kindly refer to my previous compilation to get an idea of all the different versions of SeaHF), smoother in my opinion than Cygnus. Very good for vocals. Dark and Laidback.


tayyab pirzada said:


> Any other good qualities? How about vocals/mids? Soundstage?


 
 Soundstage is not as wide rather it is deep. I would say about 1/10 of the Mojito's wideness. But damn thier mids are liquid smooth.
  


ld100 said:


> Just got this bad boy. Sounds great on a first few tracks!
> 
> How long is a burnin time?
> 
> So is Rose even better? Worth $200 better?


 
  
 Burn in time of 200hours at normal listening volume. You will see the soundstage open up significantly. 
 As for Mojito vs Cygnus, they are just different buds.
 Cygnus trumps the mojitos on mids, but the rest, mojito wins hands down (if you were to forcefully compare two different "genres" of earbuds)
  


vapman said:


> I just ordered my new Mojito so I will try it out of my phone when it gets here, haha. I never thought to use it on such plebian sources
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Welcome to the club, I hope was not responsible for your loss of money.


tayyab pirzada said:


> Well it's only 16 ohm impedance so it should work with any phone theoretically


 
  
 Actually, looking purely at impedance is a mistake. I actually find the 16ohms mojitos harder to drive to a certain extent when compared to the cygnus. The scale up very well with your source and I would like to think that they can handle being pushed by high wattages. The original seller of the Mojito says that to get optimal performance, you should maybe consider to use a desktop stack.


saoshyant said:


> What are the current mid-range suggestions for a vocals based earbud? I know the Mojito can feel a little analytical and dry, and I'm really enjoying the Monk mod I have, so I'm curious what other suggestions there are.


 
 SeaHF 320Ohm V1 or V2


----------



## kinetic758

audionewbi3 said:


> Actually, looking purely at impedance is a mistake. I actually find the 16ohms mojitos harder to drive to a certain extent when compared to the cygnus. The scale up very well with your source and I would like to think that they can handle being pushed by high wattages. The original seller of the Mojito says that to get optimal performance, you should maybe consider to use a desktop stack.
> SeaHF 320Ohm V1 or V2


 
  
 Uh oh.. hopefully I get decent sound (I plan to plug these directly into my Galaxy S6).  Would someone with a cell phone and Mojito mind doing a quick test to see if it sounds acceptable?  I do know that I won't be maximizing it's performance, but if running purely on a cell phone negates most of it's strengths, then I may end up selling it.
  
 EDIT: For reference, I currently am plugging a Cygnus and Ting directly to my cell phone and enjoy them quite a bit (far better than the Yuin PK3 they replaced).


----------



## kurtextrem

tomasz2d said:


> A lot of AE sellers insert "2016" or other sort of rubbish like "Go Pro" into their listings headlines to lure potential buyers and to differentiate from other sellers. If you check out Penon Audio listings they are fair enought and keep their listings clean from this kind of rubbish. That's what we call fair-play.


 
 Well in our case the 2016 bud has a different name + different frequency range.


----------



## haiku

I already own the Seahf LD-4.0 400Ohm and the LD-3.0 150Ohm earbuds, and will soon also get the 320Ohm V1 and V2. I guess you now can call me a Seahf fanboy!


----------



## luedriver

kurtextrem said:


> Well in our case the 2016 bud has a different name + different frequency range.


 
  
  
 indeed, 
  

Frequency response range:16-23000Hz
  

Frequency response range:16-23000kz
 
 
Frequency Response Range:6-24000Hz

  
Frequency Response:18-20000Hz

  
  
  
  
 perhaps they are a revised version, who knows?


----------



## Tomasz2D

audionewbi3 said:


> To  my ears and perception, whenever I close my eyes, I feel like I am in an large concert hall, listening to an assemble from the front to middle roll of seating. After lending my mother the Mojito's, she also mentions the same thing, in that she felt like she was in a large concert hall, listening to opera.


 
  
 And this is what worries me. Mojito owners - do you feel like Mojitos add its own reverberation to original recordings?


----------



## dearyon

joy boy said:


> Sorry, a couple of work for last few days. Maybe too late, but i'll reply some post that interested for me.
> Before that. I'm really interesting on that aztec axe. If someone has it, please share your impression.
> Once i know it's worth for its price, will buy it soon
> 
> ...



 So I a bit understand now that Blox house sound speciality is staging and imaging... and thanks for the clarification 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote:



audionewbi3 said:


> SeaHF 320Ohm V1 or V2


 
 can you tell me the difference between them?
  



haiku said:


> I already own the Seahf LD-4.0 400Ohm and the LD-3.0 150Ohm earbuds, and will soon also get the 320Ohm V1 and V2. I guess you now can call me a Seahf fanboy!


 
 waiting for the comparison between those seahf buds and when they compare with Zen 2.

 Sorry maybe I'm asking too much. I'd like to buy all of them and compare it myself but I only have a thin wallet here . Any one that compare them will be much much appreciated. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What I search for now is an end game earbuds which excel in mid-range (vocal especially) and have a great bass slam for EDM


----------



## Danneq

dearyon said:


> So I a bit understand now that Blox house sound speciality is staging and imaging... and thanks for the clarification


 

 I haven't heard all Blox models, but I own TM7 and have owned ANV3, BE3 & M2C. I'd say that all of them offer a very smooth sound and that smoothness is what defines the Blox sound for me. As the models become better they become more detailed and get a bigger soundstage. But that "Blox smoothness" is always there...


----------



## MRK1

I bought the JiuShao E300 and received them today. They're *complete garbage *and a waste of money. How ClieOS rated them higher than Monk and about the same height as the Earbell will forever be a mystery to me.


----------



## mochill

tomasz2d said:


> audionewbi3 said:
> 
> 
> > To  my ears and perception, whenever I close my eyes, I feel like I am in an large concert hall, listening to an assemble from the front to middle roll of seating. After lending my mother the Mojito's, she also mentions the same thing, in that she felt like she was in a large concert hall, listening to opera.
> ...


sounds very good , but I do not hear any reverb other then the one presented in the music.


----------



## dearyon

danneq said:


> I haven't heard all Blox models, but I own TM7 and have owned ANV3, BE3 & M2C. I'd say that all of them offer a very smooth sound and that smoothness is what defines the Blox sound for me. As the models become better they become more detailed and get a bigger soundstage. But that "Blox smoothness" is always there...


 
 smoothness? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Sorry for my noobness. I think I couldn't understand it as I've never heard any Blox buds. Maybe I should buy Blox B200 and forget about Seahf and Zen...


----------



## vapman

FWIW guys my SeaHf 400 ohms are very easily driven from any source - laptop or phone can do them great. They actually perform better on low power sources like this than the SeaHf 320's.
  
 Big difference between the 320s and the 400s!


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> FWIW guys my SeaHf 400 ohms are very easily driven from any source - laptop or phone can do them great. They actually perform better on low power sources like this than the SeaHf 320's.
> 
> Big difference between the 320s and the 400s!




Ah good to know. I initially ignored them because I thought I needed an amp for them.


----------



## kurtextrem

vapman said:


> FWIW guys my SeaHf 400 ohms are very easily driven from any source - laptop or phone can do them great. They actually perform better on low power sources like this than the SeaHf 320's.
> 
> Big difference between the 320s and the 400s!


 
 2016 version? and how does it sound (in comparison to ...)?


----------



## vapman

kurtextrem said:


> 2016 version? and how does it sound (in comparison to ...)?


 

 2016, yeah.
  
 In comparison to what?


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> And this is what worries me. Mojito owners - do you feel like Mojitos add its own reverberation to original recordings?


 

 Most definitely not. I'll have my second set of Mojito soon, they are simply way better at soundstage and precise imaging than makes sense, so there's nothing added.... just what you get is super ultra detailed and accurate. Almost shockingly so.
  
 I miss my Seahf's.


----------



## Danneq

dearyon said:


> smoothness?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well, I think both Seahf and Zen might be technically better than the new Blox. And the "smoothness" that I use to describe the sound (mainly mids & highs) isn't really a part of any technical vocabulary for earbuds.


----------



## Tomasz2D

mochill said:


> sounds very good , but I do not hear any reverb other then the one presented in the music.


  



vapman said:


> Most definitely not. I'll have my second set of Mojito soon, they are simply way better at soundstage and precise imaging than makes sense, so there's nothing added.... just what you get is super ultra detailed and accurate. Almost shockingly so.


 
  
 Good, good, good. So I should fear no more. I was afraid it does sort of reverberation that DIY Dual Drivers does.


----------



## kurtextrem

vapman said:


> 2016, yeah.
> 
> In comparison to what?


 
 To any bud. Cygnus? Tomahawk? (Asura 2.0?)
 something which makes us get the idea how it sounds


----------



## Tomasz2D

kurtextrem said:


> Well in our case the 2016 bud has a different name + different frequency range.


 
 What kind of different names?


----------



## vapman

kurtextrem said:


> To any bud. Cygnus? Tomahawk? (Asura 2.0?)
> something which makes us get the idea how it sounds


 

 If it's SeaHf 320 ohm, they sound pretty similar to Zen 2 all around. I've never heard a Zen 1.
  
 If it's the 400 ohm you're wondering about, luckily I already wrote a lot of words: http://www.head-fi.org/products/seahf-400ohm/reviews/16002


----------



## fairx

dearyon said:


> Yes. Mine is 2016 version, my cable is a bit green already but have no problem with it, the softness is getting better actually


2015, also a lil bit green but the stiffness is definitely not normal. Only from splitter upwards. I guess there's difference in 2015 / 2016 cable. I read people complaining about 2015 cable in AE review. Anybody else having stiff cable issue with tomahawk ?


----------



## kurtextrem

tomasz2d said:


> What kind of different names?


 
  
 TY Hi-Z 32ohm and Hi-Z HP-32 (search for TY Hi-Z 32ohm and you'll see exactly both)


vapman said:


> If it's SeaHf 320 ohm, they sound pretty similar to Zen 2 all around. I've never heard a Zen 1.
> 
> If it's the 400 ohm you're wondering about, luckily I already wrote a lot of words: http://www.head-fi.org/products/seahf-400ohm/reviews/16002


 
 Great review! One last question: Is it LD-3.0 or LD-4.0 (latest)


----------



## vapman

kurtextrem said:


> TY Hi-Z 32ohm and Hi-Z HP-32 (search for TY Hi-Z 32ohm and you'll see exactly both)
> Great review! One last question: Is it LD-3.0 or LD-4.0 (latest)


 

 At the time of writing the LD-3.0 was the newest. I don't have any 4.0 seahf's.


----------



## golov17

http://bengkelmacro.com/
Prices in USD


----------



## golov17

http://aornic.com/reviews/2016/7/17/venture-electronics-zen-20


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tomasz2d said:


> And this is what worries me. Mojito owners - do you feel like Mojitos add its own reverberation to original recordings?


 
  
 Nope not at all. The only earbud which I have heard to give such an effect maybe the Monk+ at higher frequencies.
 The Mojito will absolutely stretch the soundstage present in the recording to the maximum. Despite the wideness, nothing feels mushed together when they reach the furthest end of the stage. Instruments and vocals remains clearly separated and if you try hard enough, you can actually tell which instruments are coming from which parts of the stage.

 Maybe fairy unforgiving for poorly recorded source.  
  


dearyon said:


> can you tell me the difference between them?


 
  
 V1 is darker than V2, the bass is more prominent on V1 whereas on V2 they are better controlled. Vocals are also thicker on V1. Overall, V1 is more laid back and darker compared to V2 which is more balance and a wee bit brighter.


----------



## kinetic758

audionewbi3 said:


> Nope not at all. The only earbud which I have heard to give such an effect maybe the Monk+ at higher frequencies.
> 
> The Mojito will absolutely stretch the soundstage present in the recording to the maximum. Despite the wideness, nothing feels mushed together when they reach the furthest end of the stage. Instruments and vocals remains clearly separated and if you try hard enough, you can actually tell which instruments are coming from which parts of the stage.
> 
> ...




Do you have the new 3D printed model of the mojito? Curious since the newer ones supposedly have slightly more forward mids compared to the old.


----------



## Saoshyant

I just hope the old and new Mojito aren't night and day differences


----------



## audio123

will provide my impressions on ty hiz 150 ohm and ty hiz hp32 next week


----------



## AudioNewbi3

kinetic758 said:


> Do you have the new 3D printed model of the mojito? Curious since the newer ones supposedly have slightly more forward mids compared to the old.


 
 Yup the new 3d printed one. And yes according to YuGe, the founder of ROSE, the new Mojito is susposed to have a slightly better mids (still somewhat recessed) whilst maintaining the old Mojitos overall tuning.


----------



## ZerkMeister

Hows the comparison in sound and comfort combo:
 Shozy Cygnus vs Mojitos?
 I only have the Shozy's and they are heavenly comfortable and sound amazing.


----------



## kinetic758

zerkmeister said:


> Hows the comparison in sound and comfort combo:
> Shozy Cygnus vs Mojitos?
> I only have the Shozy's and they are heavenly comfortable and sound amazing.




http://www.head-fi.org/t/811450/rose-mojito-earbuds/75

I believe there's a comparison there you can check out.


----------



## kinetic758

saoshyant said:


> I just hope the old and new Mojito aren't night and day differences




I must say, there's a good amount hype around these Mojitos! Let's hope they don't disappoint.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

zerkmeister said:


> Hows the comparison in sound and comfort combo:
> Shozy Cygnus vs Mojitos?
> I only have the Shozy's and they are heavenly comfortable and sound amazing.


 
 I believe I did a comparison a few hundred post back hahaha try and check it. Alternatively, sir kinetic has kindly directed you to my impressions on the Mojito thread.


----------



## ZerkMeister

kinetic758 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/811450/rose-mojito-earbuds/75
> 
> I believe there's a comparison there you can check out.


 
  
  


audionewbi3 said:


> I believe I did a comparison a few hundred post back hahaha try and check it. Alternatively, sir kinetic has kindly directed you to my impressions on the Mojito thread.


 
 Sorry guys, I actually derped out and I had read that thread/post and forgot all about it lol.
 What about comfort though?
 How comfy exactly is the Mojito?


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> I just hope the old and new Mojito aren't night and day differences


 

 You bought my old ones, right? I just ordered some of the new ones the other day, my memory of the Mojitos is pretty good but I hope they're not night and day either...


----------



## alizeofeniquito

The AG-RX1 looks good.
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-Newest-AUGLAMOUR-RX-1-In-Ear-Earphone-Flat-Head-Plug-High-Quality-Full-Metal-Earbud/1825606_32699791827.html


----------



## vapman

Yes it does, i'm just waiting for one of the many who ordered to post if it sounds good too


----------



## AudioNewbi3

zerkmeister said:


> Sorry guys, I actually derped out and I had read that thread/post and forgot all about it lol.
> What about comfort though?
> How comfy exactly is the Mojito?


 
 Nothing beats the Cygnus in comfort. However, the Mojito is also not that far behind. I also did a post where I measured the shell a few months back. To save you time and effort, here are the measurements:


 Mojito
  

 Cygnus
  

 Generic MX500 housing.


----------



## music4mhell

mrk1 said:


> I bought the JiuShao E300 and received them today. They're *complete garbage *and a waste of money. How ClieOS rated them higher than Monk and about the same height as the Earbell will forever be a mystery to me.


 
 I also bought JiuShao E300 & E600 because of the Rankings, but i never used any one of them more than 2/3 times  Completely disappointed.


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> You bought my old ones, right? I just ordered some of the new ones the other day, my memory of the Mojitos is pretty good but I hope they're not night and day either...




May be difficult, but curious to see if you can discern the difference between the two.


----------



## haiku

danneq said:


> I haven't heard all Blox models, but I own TM7 and have owned ANV3, BE3 & M2C. I'd say that all of them offer a very smooth sound and that smoothness is what defines the Blox sound for me. As the models become better they become more detailed and get a bigger soundstage. But that "Blox smoothness" is always there...


 
 I know exactly what you mean. When I started listening to the Seahf LD-4.0 400 Ohm, I also noticed a smoothness which I never heard before. I wouldn´t wanna miss it now.


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> danneq said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't heard all Blox models, but I own TM7 and have owned ANV3, BE3 & M2C. I'd say that all of them offer a very smooth sound and that smoothness is what defines the Blox sound for me. As the models become better they become more detailed and get a bigger soundstage. But that "Blox smoothness" is always there...
> ...


 
 Which other earbuds you own ?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Mojito are my favourite bud by far right now. Only issue is recessed mids. Thats where Cygnus shines. They are two completely different styles of buds.


----------



## music4mhell

tayyab pirzada said:


> Mojito are my favourite bud by far right now. Only issue is recessed mids. Thats where Cygnus shines. They are two completely different styles of buds.


 
 Try Zen 2 once and ready for a big surprise


----------



## kurtextrem

haiku said:


> I know exactly what you mean. When I started listening to the Seahf LD-4.0 400 Ohm, I also noticed a smoothness which I never heard before. I wouldn´t wanna miss it now.


 
 By any chance, do you have a Zen 2 or something from VE to compare?


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> Try Zen 2 once and ready for a big surprise


 


 Great lows and mids but quite recessed highs...


----------



## Tomasz2D

audionewbi3 said:


> Nope not at all. The only earbud which I have heard to give such an effect maybe the Monk+ at higher frequencies.


 
 Well, from my experience these are Tingo TC200, Tingo TG-38s and DIY PHEB01 Dual Drivers - they all add its own reverberation to original recordings. And although it may be acceptable in "fun" earbuds like Tingo with price level up to 40 USD I really would not accept it at above 50 USD price level.


----------



## Tomasz2D

mrk1 said:


> I bought the JiuShao E300 and received them today. They're *complete garbage *and a waste of money. How ClieOS rated them higher than Monk and about the same height as the Earbell will forever be a mystery to me.


 


music4mhell said:


> I also bought JiuShao E300 & E600 because of the Rankings, but i never used any one of them more than 2/3 times  Completely disappointed.


 
  
 I own both and whereas I agree that E300 is not good at all, E600 is completely different. JiuShao E600 is Monk, E100 and H180 level or above if you use it for dynamic rock recordings. E600 is closer to H180 overall but with stronger mids and tighter bass. If you use dynamic rock recordings like Dire Straits Money For Nothing as reference you will see how E600 shines and beats aforementioned earbuds. E600 has tight, nicely controled bass and is very dynamic earbud all in all.


----------



## Tomasz2D

kurtextrem said:


> TY Hi-Z 32ohm and Hi-Z HP-32 (search for TY Hi-Z 32ohm and you'll see exactly both)


 
  
 This:


----------



## luedriver

tomasz2d said:


> This:


 
 thanks for clearing that up


----------



## kurtextrem

tomasz2d said:


> This:


 
 Thanks!
 lol those sellers
 even modify the name and the frequency range to make us think there is a "new" edition.. that is just insane


----------



## luedriver

anyone's thoughts on the sennheiser  mx170? they are on sale here for 8 aud from 20, and seem like a bargain, then again these are low end earbuds from a big company name and don't risk to lose much if they sound "not as good" as the more expensive earbuds like the mx985...
  
 in best case scenario, they could be sennheiser's "monk earbuds", in worst, they could be a generic earbud rebranded...


----------



## leobigfield

danneq said:


> Great lows and mids but quite recessed highs...


 
  
 Did you try it with the new Monk+ Foam (spongy) covers? Don't own the Zen 2, only asking because those foams add a nice bass without subduing the highs, nor affecting the clarity. Use 2 of them per side with my original Monk and it's awesome, highs don't seem recessed at all comparing to the original doughnuts and the Hiegis! Really love it!


----------



## mochill

Monk foam on the mojito is good


----------



## music4mhell

mochill said:


> Monk foam on the mojito is good


 
 Monk Foam on Zen 2 is awesome


----------



## Danneq

leobigfield said:


> Did you try it with the new Monk+ Foam (spongy) covers? Don't own the Zen 2, only asking because those foams add a nice bass without subduing the highs, nor affecting the clarity. Use 2 of them per side with my original Monk and it's awesome, highs don't seem recessed at all comparing to the original doughnuts and the Hiegis! Really love it!


 


 No. I bought my pair of Zen 2 before Monk+ was released. I tried full foams, donut foams and silicone rings (from Sennheiser MX980). Silicone rings worked the best even if they slipped off from time to time.

 Still I had to boost upper frequencies a lot to get a sound that was somewhat balanced (usually I only boost lows up to around 80Hz to compensate for the lack of isolation on earbuds). I used a FiiO E11 and Cayin C5 to power the Zen 2. Also tried them from my desktop computer.

 Ended up trading them for a pair of Zen 1 and those I liked from the first second...


----------



## Joy Boy

Why? Where's the list?
It helped me a lot in past, even till now?
Is it beacause there's some people here sometimes disagree with the rank or something?
I think we all have our own champion for bud, but for a nearly-complete list like clieos made is really something


----------



## haiku

I just heard rumors that Seahf is already developing a 500 Ohm earbud. Oh man.....!!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

haiku said:


> I just heard rumors that Seahf is already developing a 500 Ohm earbud. Oh man.....!!


 
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.16.xsMCHw&id=534582316342&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail
  
 Not sure if it is developed by SeaHF though
  
 EDIT: 600Ohm (Yup, you read it right, *600OHMS* EARBUDS!)
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.226.mMc5Oa&id=534903296214&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail
  
 EDIT2: 500Ohm
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=2013.1.20141002.7.5Z5vZN&scm=1007.10009.31621.100200300000001&id=534873989732&pvid=d692edeb-783c-461f-b9db-fb07fda705af


----------



## haiku

audionewbi3 said:


> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.16.xsMCHw&id=534582316342&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail
> 
> Not sure if it is developed by SeaHF though


 

 I don´t think so, otherwise I would have seen it on tieba.baidu.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

haiku said:


> I don´t think so, otherwise I would have seen it on tieba.baidu.


 
 true that hahaha


----------



## Tomasz2D

joy boy said:


> Why? Where's the list?
> It helped me a lot in past, even till now?
> Is it beacause there's some people here sometimes disagree with the rank or something?
> I think we all have our own champion for bud, but for a nearly-complete list like clieos made is really something


 
  
 Old list is still here http://www.inearmatters.net/p/earbuds-roundup.html with this disclaimer "Important: All postings are my own personal opinion only and should not be treated as absolute truth. I do get things wrong just like everyone else. Always do your own research!" so I hope everybody understood how to use the list.


----------



## Tomasz2D

haiku said:


> I just heard rumors that Seahf is already developing a 500 Ohm earbud. Oh man.....!!


 
 This impedance race reminds me of megapixels race in camera market where more megapixels do not necessarily mean better pictures.


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> Old list is still here http://www.inearmatters.net/p/earbuds-roundup.html with this disclaimer "Important: All postings are my own personal opinion only and should not be treated as absolute truth. I do get things wrong just like everyone else. Always do your own research!" so I hope everybody understood how to use the list.


 

 Too bad. I checked the list out as late as yesterday. I've never seen it as carved in stone and an absolute truth. It's just ClieOS personal ranking. And I happen to agree with a lot of it but not everything (for example, I find Hisoundaudio Living to be atrocious with it's razor sharp highs).

 By the way, ClieOS, the the link to the list on In ear matter should be added to the first post. Some of us still want to use it as a reference...

 By the way 2 - I want to see a 1 ohm earbud. Or at least an 8 ohm one...

 EDIT: the list on In ear matters is a bit old. The one in this thread had a lot more updates.


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> This:




Pretty surprising to see penon pulling this crap. I expected this of the banned AE sellers, but not penon...

(Edit: I should learn to read)


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> Pretty surprising to see penon pulling this crap. I expected this of the banned AE sellers, but not penon...


 
 So what's the truth?


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> So what's the truth?


 

 Not claiming to know any more than you - was just a little surprised to see Penon is in the stealthily rebranding identical items to sell more of the same thing to people...
  
 I've never owned a TY earbud anyway    v
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




v


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> Not claiming to know any more than you - was just a little surprised to see Penon is in the stealthily rebranding identical items to sell more of the same thing to people...


 
 Oh no, no, no. The link in that conversation was to Easy Earphones listing. I just asked Penon if it is the same product as Penon sells.


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> Oh no, no, no. The link in that conversation was to Easy Earphones listing. I just asked Penon if it is the same product as Penon sells.


 

 OH I understand now. Sorry for the confusion and thank you for clearing that up. I totally misunderstood your older post! sorry!


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> EDIT: the list on In ear matters is a bit old. The one in this thread had a lot more updates.


 
  
 I just think that deleting this ranking in this thread is a big loss. We all love rankings, top-hits lists and so on. It is always fun to follow them. Maybe @ClieOS can tell us why he took this decision?


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> I just think that deleting this ranking in this thread is a big loss. We all love rankings, top-hits lists and so on. It is always fun to follow them. Maybe @ClieOS can tell us why he took this decision?


 

 Agreed but don't forget the first post of  this thread is 2009.... I can understand if he's just sick of earbuds by now and totally not caring about them anymore 
  
 Whenever this thread's time comes, we can open a new one


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> Agreed but don't forget the first post of  this thread is 2009.... I can understand if he's just sick of earbuds by now and totally not caring about them anymore
> 
> Whenever this thread's time comes, we can open a new one


 
 Yes, we can open a new thread but I wonder if there is another person capable of creating similar earbuds ranking. Maybe @golov17 can.


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> Yes, we can open a new thread but I wonder if there is another person capable of creating similar earbuds ranking. Maybe @golov17 can.


 

 IMO if ClieOS wants to abandon/be done with this thread, one of us could do what is done in the Basshead IEM/headphones threads - a few trusted regulars with large collections get their lists on the front page post. Could easily turn into a mess if not properly regulated though.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> IMO if ClieOS wants to abandon/be done with this thread, one of us could do what is done in the Basshead IEM/headphones threads - a few trusted regulars with large collections get their lists on the front page post. Could easily turn into a mess if not properly regulated though.




This sounds like a good idea. We neee a replacement list.


----------



## leobigfield

revokasi said:


> finally got qian25 earbuds from group auctions,
> 
> it has boomy bass and warm soundsignature, but has clear micro detail that can be hear from background,
> 
> ...




If you think that Monk don't have micro details, you should try it with the new monk+ foams. I'm currently using it with rubber rings + two new foam cover per side. Get all the bass without masking the highs and details.


----------



## Spider fan

I am guessing @ClieOS got tired of people criticizing his rankings and often indirectly him when they buy because of the list and then dont like it.  I look at the rankings as just opinions from obviously someone who has way way more experience, knowledge and probably a better ear than I do.
  
 Personally, every earbud I have, except the monk+,  I bought due to a large part his rankings.  I have been very happy with all them.  It is not from being easy to please because for the most part every iem I have bought lately were not as good as expected.


----------



## golov17

Always ClieOS respect for his great work and invaluable contribution for all earbuds lovers!


----------



## ZerkMeister

audionewbi3 said:


> Nothing beats the Cygnus in comfort. However, the Mojito is also not that far behind. I also did a post where I measured the shell a few months back. To save you time and effort, here are the measurements:
> 
> 
> Mojito
> ...


 
 Yea thats what I was wondering, cuz Cygnus comfort is too hard to let go haha. I think I might buy a back up Cygnus instead then.
 Thanks for the repost for me . I did actually remember seeing those measurements but it all comes down to personal opinion/ ear size in the end.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

It's really a shame it has come to this, where the list won't be  updated anymore. When reading such rankings, one should always take it with a grain of salt and never treat it as something which is carved in stone. Listening preference is all a matter of personal taste. If you do disagree with the list, kindly express that in a polite manner:

 I just bought X earbud according to the rankings, however after listening to them, I think I will disagree with with the list because...........................or maybe it's just the difference between our listening preference .etc.
  
 Kindly note that a ****load (am I allowed to say that?) was contributed by @ClieOS sifu to construct the list. Remember, if it not for him or the list, we would not be here in the first place and discovered so many good earbuds, no?

 Just my 2cents worth of thought
  
 Thank-you


----------



## AudioNewbi3

zerkmeister said:


> Yea thats what I was wondering, cuz Cygnus comfort is too hard to let go haha. I think I might buy a back up Cygnus instead then.
> Thanks for the repost for me . I did actually remember seeing those measurements but it all comes down to personal opinion/ ear size in the end.


 
 Actually, the Mojito is smaller than Cygnus and would actually fall out of my ears if not for the silicone rings and monk+ blue red foams.
 The Shozy is very comfy, but sometimes, they seem like they are ready to slip out of my ears hahahaha


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Great work by Clios


----------



## ZerkMeister

audionewbi3 said:


> Actually, the Mojito is smaller than Cygnus and would actually fall out of my ears if not for the silicone rings and monk+ blue red foams.
> The Shozy is very comfy, but sometimes, they seem like they are ready to slip out of my ears hahahaha


 
 For me, the Cygnus is like it was meant to be made for my ears. Such a perfect fit, so snug, not a chance it'll fall.
 I mean if its possible to add enough foams and not mess up the SQ for the Mojito then it might not be a bad idea.


----------



## wietrg

tayyab pirzada said:


> TY Hi-Z HP-32, or Edifier H180




The both are nice, but TY Hi-Z more detail and musical . It's depend on personal preference.


----------



## ZerkMeister

Estimated delivery for Red Monk Plus tomorrow! 
 Can't wait!!


----------



## ngoshawk

zerkmeister said:


> Estimated delivery for Red Monk Plus tomorrow!
> Can't wait!!




Mine took five days to get across town in New Jersey between Massdrop and the shipping depot, lol.


----------



## ZerkMeister

ngoshawk said:


> Mine took five days to get across town in New Jersey between Massdrop and the shipping depot, lol.


 
 Dang, thats a long time for such a small distance. I wonder how many people got it already.


----------



## kinetic758

audionewbi3 said:


> Actually, the Mojito is smaller than Cygnus and would actually fall out of my ears if not for the silicone rings and monk+ blue red foams.
> The Shozy is very comfy, but sometimes, they seem like they are ready to slip out of my ears hahahaha




How much do the silicone rings affect the sound?


----------



## vapman

kinetic758 said:


> How much do the silicone rings affect the sound?


 

 none IMO
 same sound as bare buds but better grip.
 maybe slight better bass on account of better grip


----------



## ld100

ngoshawk said:


> Mine took five days to get across town in New Jersey between Massdrop and the shipping depot, lol.


 
  
 Mine should be here tomorrow...


----------



## ld100

tomasz2d said:


> I just think that deleting this ranking in this thread is a big loss. We all love rankings, top-hits lists and so on. It is always fun to follow them. Maybe @ClieOS can tell us why he took this decision?


 
  
 Wow. That is too bad. DAted, but still very valuable info!


----------



## Joy Boy

spider fan said:


> I am guessing @ClieOS
> got tired of people criticizing his rankings and often indirectly him when they buy because of the list and then dont like it.  I look at the rankings as just opinions from obviously someone who has way way more experience, knowledge and probably a better ear than I do.
> 
> Personally, every earbud I have, except the monk+,  I bought due to a large part his rankings.  I have been very happy with all them.  It is not from being easy to please because for the most part every iem I have bought lately were not as good as expected.



That's what i'm talkinh about. Though it helps us a lot, it's still just a personal opinion comes from personal prefference. Always take it with a grain of salt.
The list can always be a guide for us before we made a decision to buy an earbud we didn't know before.
I hope he change his mind and update the list once again


----------



## luedriver

does anyone here use/read reddit.com?
  
  
 I'm thinking instead of a forum page where it is harder to see the countless posts of reviews, thoughts and experiences on earbuds/earphones there could be a page on reddit, that is only for earbuds....
  
 just a suggestion


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

luedriver said:


> does anyone here use/read reddit.com?
> 
> 
> I'm thinking instead of a forum page where it is harder to see the countless posts of reviews, thoughts and experiences on earbuds/earphones there could be a page on reddit, that is only for earbuds....
> ...




Theres a headphones subreddit. Nothing in earbuds yet though there.


----------



## music4mhell

i will prefer to discuss on Headfi only, it's convenient, you can upload pics easily, easy to navigate and search. You can do everything from mobile also.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Anyone have any idea of how these sound?

 http://www.head-fi.org/products/bang-olufsen-earset-3-stereo-headset-with-built-in-microphone-iphone-compatible


----------



## Tomasz2D

I received some follow-up regarding TY Hi-Z HP-32. Here:


----------



## luedriver

tomasz2d said:


> I received some follow-up regarding TY Hi-Z HP-32. Here:


 
 maybe it will be a 64ohm version to complete the set
  
 http://penonaudio.com/TY-Hi-Z-Earbuds


----------



## vapman

I'm gonna assume these are fakes, right?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/272307128148?_trksid=p2060353.m1431.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> I'm gonna assume these are fakes, right?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/272307128148?_trksid=p2060353.m1431.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 

 E818 are pretty average, though. Never seen a gold colored one, but I used to own a silver colored one and it wasn't much to write home about...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

kinetic758 said:


> How much do the silicone rings affect the sound?


 
 Nill, the rings do not even come close to blocking the holes where sound passes through them. The just chill by the side and give extra grip.


----------



## Saoshyant

To Red Demun users, is anyone else having an issue with the cable stiffness keeping the buds from staying in place? I almost wonder if I need to try using ear guides


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> To Red Demun users, is anyone else having an issue with the cable stiffness keeping the buds from staying in place? I almost wonder if I need to try using ear guides




Either get ear guides or, what I did was just to play with the cable a lot, bending it back and forth(not too rough) and it's a good deal more flexible than it was. Before doing this one earbud might fall out too easily.

I am thinking about double foaming my Red Demons for better grip.


----------



## leobigfield

Has anyone listened to these:

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/M-G-Pern-H1-Headphones-Good-sound-quality-oem-by-Foster-salute-to-mx500-Earbud-/232012716569?var=&hash=item3605091a19m7fc9jB0LMnnKBc2peq2_oA
  
 They say it's a collaboration with Foster Japan to bring back the MX500 sound... Any advice?


----------



## vapman

I have two sets of real mx500. I could compare them. I haven't even seen what they sell for (bad service, on mobile) but if they're not too much I would try one out.

Mx500 is one that is sensitive to impedance shifts.


----------



## harry501501

What a fun week I've had with the Monk Plus and now today with the E100, both have extremely good quality sound. Both offer something very different. E100 far flatter with better treble and tad more detail, the Monk Plus much better bass and better fun factor.
  
 With payday coming up I've been looking into my next IEM purchase, most likely Q-Jays or Fidue A83 or one from the Aurisonics range. BUT... now I'm tempted to go for either the Shozy Cygnus or VE Zen?!?
  
 Is the price difference between the Zen and the Monk Plus worth paying? How big a leap in quality is there?


----------



## vapman

Anyone selling an asura? Should pm me


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Anyone selling an asura? Should pm me


 Посмотри этот товар на eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/232015535927


----------



## golov17

leobigfield said:


> Has anyone listened to these:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/M-G-Pern-H1-Headphones-Good-sound-quality-oem-by-Foster-salute-to-mx500-Earbud-/232012716569?var=&hash=item3605091a19m7fc9jB0LMnnKBc2peq2_oA
> 
> They say it's a collaboration with Foster Japan to bring back the MX500 sound... Any advice?


 @BloodyPenguin


----------



## BloodyPenguin

leobigfield said:


> Has anyone listened to these:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/M-G-Pern-H1-Headphones-Good-sound-quality-oem-by-Foster-salute-to-mx500-Earbud-/232012716569?var=&hash=item3605091a19m7fc9jB0LMnnKBc2peq2_oA
> 
> They say it's a collaboration with Foster Japan to bring back the MX500 sound... Any advice?


 
  
  


golov17 said:


> @BloodyPenguin


 
  
 BTW, these are called the HIFIKIWI HONEY BUZZARD (or H1).
  
 I've commented on these.  They are decent for the price.  I like the sound, it has some nice sub-bass and carries itself well in the mids and highs, with a bit of an early roll off.
  
 The cord is very cheap and thin.  I mentioned before that I wish that instead of it coming in a box, that they spent just a bit more money on the cable instead.
  
 That all said, the cable has not malfunctioned and I used them quite a bit as my beater pair.  
  
 --


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I'm also wondering how the HIFIKIWI LYREBIRD Sounds...


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> Посмотри этот товар на eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/232015535927


 

 thanks bud!


----------



## harry501501

Having listened to both Monk+ and E100 I feel the Monk is the better bud. The E100 is a tad to neutral for me, bordering on slightly bright at times. I prefer the slightly bassier Monk+, it's just more fun to listen to.
  
 If I was to buy another earbud what would you recommend out of the VE Zen 2.0 and Shozy Cygnus? Which has the better resolution?


----------



## ld100

golov17 said:


> Посмотри этот товар на eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/232015535927




А что там?


----------



## ld100

ld100 said:


> I still hate my Tomahawk...




After few days with Cygnus I tried my Tomahawk again and oh my... It is a night and day. They are so bad... I don't know what others received in a past, the one that I got is just so unpleasant and harsh. I wish I could return it...


----------



## kinetic758

ld100 said:


> After few days with Cygnus I tried my Tomahawk again and oh my... It is a night and day. They are so bad... I don't know what others received in a past, the one that I got is just so unpleasant and harsh. I wish I could return it...




I was almost going to get the Tomahawk but got the Tings instead. They've definitely grown on me and I listen to them as much as my Cygnus now. Still curious about the Tomahawk... those who like them seem to really love them. Is it the highs that you don't like when compared to the Cygnus?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> thanks bud!




Pun intended lol


----------



## ld100

kinetic758 said:


> I was almost going to get the Tomahawk but got the Tings instead. They've definitely grown on me and I listen to them as much as my Cygnus now. Still curious about the Tomahawk... those who like them seem to really love them. Is it the highs that you don't like when compared to the Cygnus?


 
  
 It is not even the highs. The sounds is so unpleasant and unrefined. Whoever used "harsh" to describe it hit it right on the head. It is just harsh. Even a 5 dollar Monk is ways above it... I strongly suspect that I got a set that somehow inferior to what others got...


----------



## ld100

Red is here...


----------



## ld100

ld100 said:


> Red is here...


 
  
 And it sounds good!


----------



## vapman

Ughhhh I'm sitting here using my smoke grey monk+, i know the red ones will sound just the same but I can't wait for my red ones to get here!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

ld100 said:


> It is not even the highs. The sounds is so unpleasant and unrefined. Whoever used "harsh" to describe it hit it right on the head. It is just harsh. Even a 5 dollar Monk is ways above it... I strongly suspect that I got a set that somehow inferior to what others got...


 
 Hmm maybe. But I like the hawks very much before I got my Mojito. To me at least they sound fantastically open and has some good airiness to them, though details are not the best.


----------



## kurtextrem

audionewbi3 said:


> Hmm maybe. But I like the hawks very much before I got my Mojito. To me at least they sound fantastically open and has some good airiness to them, though details are not the best.


 
 It may depend on the sound you listen to. I listen to EDM, and the sound of the Tomahawks literally pierced my ears lol


----------



## AudioNewbi3

kurtextrem said:


> It may depend on the sound you listen to. I listen to EDM, and the sound of the Tomahawks literally pierced my ears lol


 
 Ah yes. I do not listen to EDM so I cannot say. But for orchestral or classical theyre good. 
  
 Of course once again, YMMV.


----------



## Saoshyant

Totally off topic, but I did not expect my first review, an earbud review at that, to hit front page


----------



## jrazmar

I am now having 2nd thoughts to make a stand for the Zen 2.0 as my earbud champion. Listening to Cygnus for 3 days straight now and I can say that it has best vocals that I ever heard from an earbud. Although I'm still using EQ using my Cowon P1, the sound from the Cygnus is the most comfortable and due to low impedance, it shines even without an amp. Will try to listen more and switch between the Zen to make a conclusion. Still waiting for the Edimun V3 to arrive. Has anybody here received the AG RX-1?


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> Ah yes. I do not listen to EDM so I cannot say. But for orchestral or classical theyre good.
> 
> Of course once again, YMMV.


 

 Tomahawk works great for metal, rock and pop as well...


----------



## Saoshyant

I must admit, I'm curious about the Tomahawk, but given the polarizing responses to it, it's a rough call for me.


----------



## kurtextrem

jrazmar said:


> I am now having 2nd thoughts to make a stand for the Zen 2.0 as my earbud champion. Listening to Cygnus for 3 days straight now and I can say that it has best vocals that I ever heard from an earbud. Although I'm still using EQ using my Cowon P1, the sound from the Cygnus is the most comfortable and due to low impedance, it shines even without an amp. Will try to listen more and switch between the Zen to make a conclusion. Still waiting for the Edimun V3 to arrive. Has anybody here received the AG RX-1?


 
 Tell us your opinion on Edimun V3 vs Zen 2 vs Cygnus once it's arrived 
  
 and by any chance, do you plan buying a Seahf LD-4.0?


----------



## Fabi

saoshyant said:


> Totally off topic, but I did not expect my first review, an earbud review at that, to hit front page


Congrats !


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> Ughhhh I'm sitting here using my smoke grey monk+, i know the red ones will sound just the same but I can't wait for my red ones to get here!


 
 Not the same. Red ones should sound faster... much faster...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

My Red Monks should be arriving today.  I've also got a serious eye on the TY Hi-Z HP-32 as well.  I just DON'T need anymore earbuds.   
  
 Why do I keep buying them?  
  
 ..


----------



## audio123

bloodypenguin said:


> My Red Monks should be arriving today.  I've also got a serious eye on the TY Hi-Z HP-32 as well.  I just DON'T need anymore earbuds.
> 
> Why do I keep buying them?
> 
> ..


 
 will provide impression on ty hiz hp32 when i get it. it just left hong kong


----------



## luedriver

bloodypenguin said:


> My Red Monks should be arriving today.  I've also got a serious eye on the TY Hi-Z HP-32 as well.  I just DON'T need anymore earbuds.
> 
> Why do I keep buying them?
> 
> ..


 
 I also ordered the ty hi-z hp-32, today I went and bought a sennheiser mx170, and realized that it was the first sennheiser that I have ever bought, (also thinking about the mx500), and the thing is I don't think I'll stop there...
  
 maybe its just that everyone says that earbuds are no good but when you realize that they can be good, you want to see how many earbuds are actually good?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

luedriver said:


> I also ordered the ty hi-z hp-32, today I went and bought a sennheiser mx170, and realized that it was the first sennheiser, (also thinking about the mx500), and the thing is I don't think I'll stop there...
> 
> maybe its just that everyone says that earbuds are no good but when you realize that they can be good, you want to see how many earbuds are actually good?




This.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

luedriver said:


> I also ordered the ty hi-z hp-32, today I went and bought a sennheiser mx170, and realized that it was the first sennheiser, (also thinking about the mx500), and the thing is I don't think I'll stop there...
> 
> maybe its just that everyone says that earbuds are no good but when you realize that they can be good, you want to see how many earbuds are actually good?


 
  
 I think for me, I just want to hear how each earbud sounds.  They are just so much fun.  It is like Pokemon Go, got to collect them all!  
  
 --


----------



## audio123

bloodypenguin said:


> I think for me, I just want to hear how each earbud sounds.  They are just so much fun. * It is like Pokemon Go, got to collect them all!  *
> 
> --


 
 thats so true...


----------



## kinetic758

Curious... how many of you avoid using IEM's altogether?  
  
 I've never found them comfortable, but after hearing how nice an earbud could sound, I'm tempted to give an IEM another chance (given that the general opinion is that they sound superior to earbuds).


----------



## vapman

kinetic758 said:


> Curious... how many of you avoid using IEM's altogether?
> 
> I've never found them comfortable, but after hearing how nice an earbud could sound, I'm tempted to give an IEM another chance (given that the general opinion is that they sound superior to earbuds).


 
 I have had a love hate relationship with IEMs over the years.
  
 I end up starting to use them for isolation, and then end up loving using IEMs all the time until I get sick of things being in my ears.
  
 I have used earbuds more than IEMs total since the OG monks came out. I have many, many sets of monks. Unless I am craving serious bass impact from an IEM and don't want to use full size cans for full size head slammage, I always pick earbuds.
  
 It's like open over ears vs closed over ears. I would say at this point I more or less avoid using IEMs. I'm selling almost all my IEMs, anyway, cause I like earbuds most. best of all worlds.
  
 Every day I am so happy earbuds came back in style, I love earbuds so so much.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

My IEM Solution:  The *MusicMaker Tomahawk Earphone*, Thing:
  

  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/musicmaker-tomahawk-in-ear/reviews/15792
  
  
 I've been using this for the last few days to block noise while at lunch, they are just fantastic for me.  Super comfortable (with foam tips) and the sound is very decent.  The flat cable is great for in the pocket because it does not tangle as easily.  It is not as airy as an earbud, but it is about as good as it gets for an IEM for me.
  
 ..


----------



## ngoshawk

bloodypenguin said:


> My Red Monks should be arriving today.  I've also got a serious eye on the TY Hi-Z HP-32 as well.  I just DON'T need anymore earbuds.
> 
> Why do I keep buying them?
> 
> ..




Lol, agree completely. And yes, the Red Monk+ will be much, much faster...


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kinetic758 said:


> Curious... how many of you avoid using IEM's altogether?
> 
> I've never found them comfortable, but after hearing how nice an earbud could sound, I'm tempted to give an IEM another chance (given that the general opinion is that they sound superior to earbuds).




I hate IEMs


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

These just came in the mail. Creative Aurvana Air and modified VE Monk.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada




----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> These just came in the mail. Creative Aurvana Air and modified VE Monk.


 
 Who modded the Monk, and very interested to hear your impressions of the Aurvana Air! I've been curious about that one for a very , very long time but never gave it a shot. Curious to hear how you think it stacks up against things like the Cygnus and Mojito. You got a Zen yet?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> Who modded the Monk, and very interested to hear your impressions of the Aurvana Air! I've been curious about that one for a very , very long time but never gave it a shot. Curious to hear how you think it stacks up against things like the Cygnus and Mojito. You got a Zen yet?




Got the Monk from here http://m.ebay.com/itm/Original-VE-Monk-with-REMOTE-and-Mic-40-HQ-custom-cable-41-/231973727127?txnId=1335138613013

And no haven't gotten the Zen yet.


----------



## vapman

Cool, excited to hear your thoughts on both buds.


----------



## golov17

kinetic758 said:


> Curious... how many of you avoid using IEM's altogether?
> 
> I've never found them comfortable, but after hearing how nice an earbud could sound, I'm tempted to give an IEM another chance (given that the general opinion is that they sound superior to earbuds).


----------



## mochill

Headfi is like Pokemon go, can't stop at one because new ones will pop up sooner or later


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Thoughts on Aurvana Air:

- I actually like the slip-on style; it feels really secure
- REALLY airy and pleasing and non-fatiguing vocals/mids; more defined vocals than Cygnus but not as forward
- Not much sub-bass though a fair bit still
- Great soundstage
- Very good detail
- Overall much better sound than the Monk; very "clean" and neutral sound though slightly warm vocals


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Comparison of modded Monk vs stock Monk+:
- Modded Monk has much better soundstage, instrument separation, sub-bass, and cleaner sound overall
- Modded Monk has button remote/mic and L connector (both good perks)
- Modded Monk has really good detailing 

I actually think the normal Monk+ sounds like garbage after listening to these.


----------



## Danneq

kinetic758 said:


> Curious... how many of you avoid using IEM's altogether?
> 
> I've never found them comfortable, but after hearing how nice an earbud could sound, I'm tempted to give an IEM another chance (given that the general opinion is that they sound superior to earbuds).




I think that general opinion mainly is from people who's main experience of earbuds are iPod earbuds...

I've got a 2 or 3 pairs of IEMs that came with MP3 players that I bought. Never tried them. It's always been earbuds for me...


----------



## vapman

Weird question but does anyone here have both Etymotic HF5 and Ting or Tomahawk on hand?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Overall my earbud champions are still Mojito but damn do these modded Monks sound good


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

How I store my AK Jr connected to earbuds in my pocket when I'm out


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> Comparison of modded Monk vs stock Monk+:
> - Modded Monk has much better soundstage, instrument separation, sub-bass, and cleaner sound overall
> - Modded Monk has button remote/mic and L connector (both good perks)
> - Modded Monk has really good detailing
> ...


 if not MP, we would never have learned the amazing best foams, lolz


----------



## golov17

T-Music Professional DIY Earphone 3.5mm Hifi Noise Cancelling Bass In-Ear Headset With Package
 http://s.aliexpress.com/FFVr2u6R


16 available  go-go


----------



## kurtextrem

golov17 said:


> T-Music Professional DIY Earphone 3.5mm Hifi Noise Cancelling Bass In-Ear Headset With Package
> http://s.aliexpress.com/FFVr2u6R
> 
> 
> 16 available  go-go


 
 did u order? do u think it's good?
  
  
 btw I'm fine (from munich)


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> T-Music Professional DIY Earphone 3.5mm Hifi Noise Cancelling Bass In-Ear Headset With Package
> http://s.aliexpress.com/FFVr2u6R
> 
> 
> 16 available  go-go


 
  
 First off, you are the worst.  You are only making our addiction that much harder.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Two, what the heck is "Noise Cancelling Bass"?  Sounds awful.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 That all said, I still want a pair.  MUST Resist..... must!


----------



## kurtextrem

bloodypenguin said:


> First off, you are the worst.  You are only making our addiction that much harder.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The struggle is even higher than with the special design bud we had earlier, because of the limited qtty D:


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> First off, you are the worst.  You are only making our addiction that much harder.
> 
> Two, what the heck is "Noise Cancelling Bass"?  Sounds awful.  :eek:
> 
> That all said, I still want a pair.  MUST Resist..... must!  :veryevil:


 not grumble, I expect 11 different earbuds, so .. I bought and it is also


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

golov17 said:


> if not MP, we would never have learned the amazing best foams, lolz




Monk plus foams are the best period


----------



## kurtextrem

golov17 said:


> not grumble, I expect 11 different earbuds, so .. I bought and it is also


 
 9.99$ for a "100$" bud, what could go wrong?


----------



## kfarndog

ld100 said:


> It is not even the highs. The sounds is so unpleasant and unrefined. Whoever used "harsh" to describe it hit it right on the head. It is just harsh. Even a 5 dollar Monk is ways above it... I strongly suspect that I got a set that somehow inferior to what others got...


 
 I like my Tomahawks, but not for everything.  IMO, they bring life back into needledrops, for instance; acoustic instruments are also good.  I can see how they may not be everyone's bag of tea.


----------



## kfarndog

saoshyant said:


> I must admit, I'm curious about the Tomahawk, but given the polarizing responses to it, it's a rough call for me.


 
 They seem like the Grados of earbuds.


----------



## kfarndog

vapman said:


> Weird question but does anyone here have both Etymotic HF5 and Ting or Tomahawk on hand?


 
 I have the Etys and Tomahawk.


----------



## vapman

kfarndog said:


> I have the Etys and Tomahawk.




Basically, do the tomahawks sound the same as the hf5 more or less, or is my memory bad?


----------



## kinetic758

tayyab pirzada said:


> Monk plus foams are the best period


 
  
 Waiting for mine to be delivered.  So what makes them (the Exp Pack foams) so good?  And are you referring to the thinner full foams (the one you get plenty of) or the thicker ones?


----------



## kfarndog

vapman said:


> Basically, do the tomahawks sound the same as the hf5 more or less, or is my memory bad?


 
 Apologize in advance for my lack of review skills - Etys configured with standard grey triple flange, Tomahawks with foam donuts.  They are both similar in clarity, slight lack of bass and how uncomfortable they are if they fit isn't perfect.  The Tomahawks seems to have a larger bump around 2500 and the Etys' bump seems more in the 1000 range.  Nod to Tomahawks on soundstage; nod to Etys on clarity.  I like the HF5 as an all-around IEM; the Tomahawks only get play on needledrops and acoustic music for me.
  
 Hope that helps.


----------



## vapman

kfarndog said:


> Apologize in advance for my lack of review skills - Etys configured with standard grey triple flange, Tomahawks with foam donuts.  They are both similar in clarity, slight lack of bass and how uncomfortable they are if they fit isn't perfect.  The Tomahawks seems to have a larger bump around 2500 and the Etys' bump seems more in the 1000 range.  Nod to Tomahawks on soundstage; nod to Etys on clarity.  I like the HF5 as an all-around IEM; the Tomahawks only get play on needledrops and acoustic music for me.
> 
> Hope that helps.


 

 Super helpful, thanks a bunch. Is the bass comparable between the two, you think? I was surprised that the HF5 was actually a lot more bass capable than i remembered.
  
 Might be gettin myself some silver Tomahawk again.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kfarndog said:


> They seem like the Grados of earbuds.




I personally love the thin ones


----------



## kfarndog

vapman said:


> Super helpful, thanks a bunch. Is the bass comparable between the two, you think? I was surprised that the HF5 was actually a lot more bass capable than i remembered.
> 
> Might be gettin myself some silver Tomahawk again.


 
 I find a warm-sounding source or some equalization are needed on the Tomahawk, whereas I can listen flat on any source with the Etys. I think the Ety 5 and 4 have plenty of bass, but will concede that it isn't what the Beats crowd would consider bass.
  
 If you had the Tomahawks previously you will know what I mean by this - you find a good source / music style match and they sound great.  You force them out of that comfort zone they will bite you.


----------



## vapman

kfarndog said:


> I find a warm-sounding source or some equalization are needed on the Tomahawk, whereas I can listen flat on any source with the Etys. I think the Ety 5 and 4 have plenty of bass, but will concede that it isn't what the Beats crowd would consider bass.
> 
> If you had the Tomahawks previously you will know what I mean by this - you find a good source / music style match and they sound great.  You force them out of that comfort zone they will bite you.


 

 Thanks so much. Your mini reviews helped me to realize my memory was not too far from the truth anyway.
  
 With that said i'll buy someone's silver tomahawk


----------



## vapman

Sign me the heck up for some noise cancelling bass. I'll gladly buy any earbud that can best the seahf 400 in bass


----------



## ld100

vapman said:


> Thanks so much. Your mini reviews helped me to realize my memory was not too far from the truth anyway.
> 
> With that said i'll buy someone's silver tomahawk


 
  
 I will gladly sell you mine. It is fw weeks old. Where are you?


----------



## vapman

ld100 said:


> I will gladly sell you mine. It is fw weeks old. Where are you?




Sending a pm. Thanks bro


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Does anyone have a Seahf 400 ohm for sale?


----------



## Wbmanns

There are some buds for sale on eBay. VE Asura 1.0, VE Asura 2.0, Yuin PK3, Baldoor E100, Croons Tingo TG-38s, and Dasetn M760.


----------



## vapman

wbmanns said:


> There are some buds for sale on eBay. VE Asura 1.0, VE Asura 2.0, Yuin PK3, Baldoor E100, Croons Tingo TG-38s, and Dasetn M760.


 

 I'm bidding on the Asura 1.0 so don't outbid me unless you want a bidding war, ya heard?!


----------



## luedriver

kinetic758 said:


> Curious... how many of you avoid using IEM's altogether?


 
  
 I don't avoid any headphones, except for on ear (the ones that sit flat on your ear). I remember even in my childhood I wanted earbuds instead of in ear for lack of isolation, that said I had used my philips she3680 for almost a decade, I also really liked the fidelio s1, and xiaomi piston 2.0
  
 and actually had several iems that I don't have today, made out of ceramic, wood, metal.
  
 today I only have some generic in ear(I keep it to remind me of the dark ages where this was kinda good), monoprice (because I bought into the hype) and philips she3590, and waiting for fidelio s1 and she3580 in the mail


----------



## audio123

Is paiaudio pr1 good?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I've been switching around buds but I keep coming back to the Mojito. They are seriously endgame buds. I keep coming back for the ultra detailing. They are like big size electrostatic cans.

Ive heard some people compare Zen 2 to big size cans as well. Never heard them yet.

My rankings as of now are:

Rose Mojito > Shozy Cygnus > Ostry KC08t > Creative Aurvana Air > Modded Monk 

Still have to hear Edimun V3 which are coming in, and possibly Zen


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

What's the highest impedence earbuds the AK JR can power? 300 Ohm?

What about with a Fiio E12A amp?


----------



## kurtextrem

On the noise cancelling bass bud:
 "

```
very good resolving power, low-frequency very full
```


----------



## vapman

Sorry, but what is the model on the noise cancelling bass bud? I tried searching it with quotes even on aliexpress and was kinda astounded by the number of IEMs that showed up O_o


----------



## kurtextrem

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/T-Music-Professional-DIY-HiFi-Headphone-Cable/32686800517.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.261.s3xHuR


----------



## vapman

Thanks man 
  
 Still using bMac 3CH MK2 with all my earbuds, every day, all day. My favorite amp especially for earbuds.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

$100 sound quality? Noise cancelling earbuds?

Really....?


----------



## haiku

2 days ago, I started listening to the Seahf LD-3.0 150 Ohm earbuds. They groove like hell with my X7!


----------



## kurtextrem

haiku said:


> 2 days ago, I started listening to the Seahf LD-3.0 150 Ohm earbuds. They groove like hell with my X7!


 
 the bass!


----------



## koven

hi guys i really l love my cygnus they are like mini hd600s in my ear  so organic and smooth, easy to drive too!


----------



## vapman

Do the 150s have bass as strong as the 400s?

Edimun/red de'mun owners: if you struggle with them falling out, simple fix here, 100% success and passed the dancing test.


----------



## Tomasz2D

golov17 said:


> T-Music Professional DIY Earphone 3.5mm Hifi Noise Cancelling Bass In-Ear Headset With Package
> http://s.aliexpress.com/FFVr2u6R


 
 Oh, I know how they will sound just by looking at them but... ok I think I need a new earbuds case anyway (do I ???)  (sigh with resignation).


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> Oh, I know how they will sound just by looking at them but... ok I think I need a new earbuds case anyway (do I ???)  (sigh with resignation).


Also.. cable good ☺


----------



## golov17




----------



## Tomasz2D

golov17 said:


> Also.. cable good ☺


 
 Yeah, will become organ donor at worst.


----------



## haiku

vapman said:


> Do the 150s have bass as strong as the 400s?


 
 No, but it´s kinda funky/groovy. 
 In comparison to the Seahf´s the Monks sound more "eq´d" to me. I still love my Monks, but the Seahf´s sound way more natural imo.


----------



## Tomasz2D

@golov17 Reg. Remax 305M - that mic/control panel installed so close to left earbud does not look very convenient.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I still can't get over the hype of the Zen 2 and Seahf 400 ohm. Considering getting both but...I dont know...


----------



## haiku

kurtextrem said:


> the bass!


 

 Yup, very punchy. The 150 Ohm groove way more like any other earbud I´ve heard so far. In comparison to the 400 ohm they are limited, but they´re fast, so if you "only" want to enjoy your music, give ´em a chance everybody.


----------



## kurtextrem

tomasz2d said:


> Oh, I know how they will sound just by looking at them but... ok I think I need a new earbuds case anyway (do I ???)  (sigh with resignation).


 
 how? 
  


golov17 said:


>


 
 Any more info?
  


tayyab pirzada said:


> I still can't get over the hype of the Zen 2 and Seahf 400 ohm. Considering getting both but...I dont know...


 
 Don't forget that there are 2 different Seahf 400 ohm. v3 and v4. Plus, there is TY Hi-Z, also 2 different 400 Ohm (HP400S and HP400)


----------



## haiku

kurtextrem said:


> how?
> 
> Any more info?
> 
> Don't forget that there are 2 different Seahf 400 ohm. v3 and v4. Plus, there is TY Hi-Z, also 2 different 400 Ohm (HP400S and HP400)


 

 I´ll soon get the LD-3.0 400 Ohm, as well as the 320 Ohm LD-1.0 + 2.0 + 3.0!


----------



## kurtextrem

It's so difficult to decide between Zen 2, Seahf 400 3.0 vs 4.0 vs the TY variants....


----------



## golov17

Hmmm..


----------



## Saoshyant

@vapman You might get a laugh at this.  I grabbed the earhooks you recommended using on the Red Demun, got them on (thanks btw as they don't fall out now) and went to listen to some Portishead to see how they sound.  The singer kept sounding off center, so I kept fidgeting with it trying to get the balance right but couldn't get it to work, so grabbed some IEMs to listen to the same album...  apparently I had forgotten the song I was using had the singer off to the right side.


----------



## Tomasz2D

kurtextrem said:


> how?


 
 Nice deep bass, recessed mids and slightly rolled off highs. Warm signature


----------



## Tomasz2D

golov17 said:


> Hmmm..


 
 Ok, on that picture much better. Are you getting these? I saw them for 11 USD on BangGood.


----------



## kurtextrem

vapman said:


> @irgunawan
> Thank you for the opportunity
> 
> 
> ...


 
 any updates on the faael or remax? 
  
 ---
  
 Also stumbled over: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-HCK-TP1-High-Impedance-150-ohms-Flat-Head-Plug-Earbud-Earphone-HCK-Custom-High-Impedance/1825606_32654824902.html interesting shell... Any opinions?


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> Ok, on that picture much better. Are you getting these? I saw them for 11 USD on BangGood.


yes, from Ali


----------



## mochill

tayyab pirzada said:


> What's the highest impedence earbuds the AK JR can power? 300 Ohm?
> 
> What about with a Fiio E12A amp?


bro what's taking so long to get the VE zen2.0 black edition


----------



## vapman

kurtextrem said:


> any updates on the faael or remax?


 
 I have two sets of REMAX RM 303. they are very good for making calls and listening when outdoors. but dont really use them in doors.
  
 still waiting on delivery of REMAX RM 305M.
  
 i sold FARERL 300ohm v3 without ever listening to it, sorry... v
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




v


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

mochill said:


> bro what's taking so long to get the VE zen2.0 black edition




They feel overpriced


----------



## mochill

Physically they feel like it, mojito feel like little toys


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Sir @golov17, do you think one should purchase a Ubiquo ES903 if one already owns a Cygnus?


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> They feel overpriced


 

 Only reason I haven't gotten around to ordering mine too.... sigh.


----------



## mochill

Definitely underprice imho


----------



## rggz

tayyab pirzada said:


> They feel overpriced


 

 +1 The cardas cable make the Zen 2 be overpriced if Lee would be able to make a black version more affordable of Zen 2 with Mogami cables + Neutrik connector for ~$200 I'd buy it but being a treble extension fan I think will be hard to blow my mind with his dark signature...


----------



## Tomasz2D

OK, I decided to join this "Remax clan" already including @golov17 @vapman @BloodyPenguin as members. I am getting 305M from BangGood and 303 from Ali.


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> OK, I decided to join this "Remax clan" already including @golov17 @vapman @BloodyPenguin as members. I am getting 305M from BangGood and 303 from Ali.


 

 I bought two 303's on ali and one on ebay (every time just hunting for the cheapest one with epacket shipping). Each showed up in barely over a week. I dunno why but remaxes move fast in my experience?
  
 The highest I ever paid for a Remax 303 is $5.25 shipped though, please keep that in mind. Don't spend a lot more than that.
  
 Oh and I bought the noise isolation bass earbud 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 9.99? couldn't resist...


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> I dunno why but remaxes move fast in my experience?


 
 Strange indeed especially that they are not in red color.


----------



## Tomasz2D

rggz said:


> +1 The cardas cable make the Zen 2 be overpriced if Lee would be able to make a black version more affordable of Zen 2 with Mogami cables + Neutrik connector for ~$200 I'd buy it but being a treble extension fan I think will be hard to blow my mind with his dark signature...


 
  
 Sure, that expensive earbuds are much overprices, especially those sold directly. I belive pricey ones are not that much more costly to produce than the cheap ones. And if they are sold directly, distribution chain is omitted and all profit goes to producer. But when you buy expensive earbuds you receive *the promise of better life* included in the price


----------



## vapman

Anyone owns both the TY Hi-Z 150 and 400? wondering if i should get a 150 as they boast bottoming out at 12hz instead of 16hz.


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> Anyone owns both the TY Hi-Z 150 and 400? wondering if i should get a 150 as they boast bottoming out at 12hz instead of 16hz.


 
 Sorry I do not have above models but speaking of bass... Once I bought these "ES" earbuds wrongly called "black horse" by Ali seller and I liked them. ClieOS directed me to actual DIY producer and I got more earbuds from him. One of earbuds I got from him is this bass tuned earbud. You can read sloppy English translation here:
  
 https://www.bhiner.com/taobao-agent/533815794642
  
 I can confirm- yes this earbud can handle some nice bass.


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> Sorry I do not have above models but speaking of bass... Once I bought these "ES" earbuds wrongly called "black horse" by Ali seller and I liked them. ClieOS directed me to actual DIY producer and I got more earbuds from him. One of earbuds I got from him is this bass tuned earbud. You can read sloppy English translation here:
> 
> https://www.bhiner.com/taobao-agent/533815794642
> 
> I can confirm- yes this earbud can handle some nice bass.


 

 Looks incredibly similar (although not exactly like) the Noise Cancelling Bass earbud which @golov17 posted a day ago and I bought earlier today. I'll wait and see if that satisfies the accursed blood of the basshead which runs through me.


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> Looks incredibly similar (although not exactly like) the Noise Cancelling Bass earbud which @golov17 posted a day ago and I bought earlier today. I'll wait and see if that satisfies the accursed blood of the basshead which runs through me.


 
 Of course, just be aware of traffic when wearing these "noise cancelling" earbuds


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I dont believe earbuds can be noise cancelling...lol not buying till I hear a review


----------



## Tomasz2D

tayyab pirzada said:


> I dont believe earbuds can be noise cancelling...lol not buying till I hear a review


 
 Of course not. We just all make fun about it


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Sir @golov17
> , do you think one should purchase a Ubiquo ES903 if one already owns a Cygnus?


 Only if you do not bother detailed sound on the bright side


----------



## leobigfield

tomasz2d said:


> Sure, that expensive earbuds are much overprices, especially those sold directly. I belive pricey ones are not that much more costly to produce than the cheap ones. And if they are sold directly, distribution chain is omitted and all profit goes to producer. But when you buy expensive earbuds you receive *the promise of better life* included in the price




Could you please make some comparison of the Zen with your other gear?


----------



## golov17

People, and you do not forget that the Black Edition includes a lifetime warranty, not only Cardas cable?


----------



## tukangketik

--del


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Thanks


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Just ordered Seahf 320 Ohm LD 3.0. Going to see what all the bass is about.


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> Just ordered Seahf 320 Ohm LD 3.0. Going to see what all the bass is about.


 http://www.head-fi.org/t/812442/fs-earbuds-seahf-ld3-0-320-ohm-150-ohm-both#post_12680354


----------



## audio123

can i check on celsus gramo one @golov17 thanks in advance!


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> can i check on celsus gramo one @golov17
> thanks in advance!


 I have not had time to buy them, lol ☺


----------



## audio123

golov17 said:


> I have not had time to buy them, lol ☺


 
 i see. no problem mate! just curious hehe


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Upon further review the DIY Dual Driver have very good detailing and soundstage. But the bass and mids/treble leave a lot to be desired.


----------



## Tomasz2D

leobigfield said:


> Could you please make some comparison of the Zen with your other gear?


 
 You mean, how they differ in general or to any specific gear?


----------



## Tomasz2D

1. How much were MX985 back in days they were widely available?
 2. How much were Zen 1.0. when they were available?


----------



## luedriver

I found this while trying to find more infomation on the "philips she3800"
  
  
  

  
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/27459891@N04/21216040124/in/photolist-yjMKzf
  
 they kinda look like redimun or modded edifer, I wonder if you could buy them like this...
  
 or if they are different sounding....
  
 for me the more I listen to she3800 the more I like them, shame I can't find any info, not even on philips site


----------



## dearyon

I'm happy that sir @ClieOS updated his earbuds list 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 wonder if there are any new earbuds worth calling champions from that new list...
 Maybe TY Hi-Z HP400/HP400S or 舜仕01B (Extraordinary Sound ESP-01B)?

 Really, can't thanks to you enough for that list with rank, it so convenience and help me a lot


----------



## dearyon

luedriver said:


> I found this while trying to find more infomation on the "philips she3800"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 there is indeed a modder in Indonesia that mod Philips SHE3800
 and the their cable is similar to De'Mun one but it is actually different
 search for Coso Concept on FB


----------



## mebaali

luedriver said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You are not alone, right now listening to Armin Van Buuren's State of Trance Year Mix on SHE3800.
  
 To my ears, these are the best earbuds (even better sounding than TY Hi-Z 32 and Monk, in terms of clarity, detail retrieval, tighter bass, and natural vocals) that I have in my small collection of buds. All this for just mere 3.21 US$.
  
 Simply brilliant!


----------



## kurtextrem

dearyon said:


> I'm happy that sir @ClieOS updated his earbuds list
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Also my eyes see the AuGlamour RX-1


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Still in love with the rose mojito....what a great earbud ahhhh


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

My current line-up:
  
Edimun V3 | Rose Technology Mojito (modded with Lune MKIII cable) | Shozy Cygnus | Creative Aurvana Air | Ostry KC08t | Seahf 320 Ohm LD 3.0 | Modded VE Monk (with better cable)
  
Still waiting for Seahf 320Ohm and Edimun V3 to come in.
  
If I had to choose an order right now it would be like this:
  
1. Rose Mojito - for the details, soundstage, bass; neutral, analytical, clinical sound
2. Shozy Cygnus - for the ultra smooth and forward mids; mid-cenrtic warm sound
3. Ostry KC08t - for the bass and treble; very V-shaped sound
4. Creative Aurvana Air - for the smooth airy vocals; warmish vocal-centric sound
5. Modded VE Monk - good all-rounder with good bass and treble


----------



## haiku

dearyon said:


> I'm happy that sir @ClieOS updated his earbuds list
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I´d definitely throw the Seahf LD-4.0 400hm in the ring.


----------



## luedriver

dearyon said:


> there is indeed a modder in Indonesia that mod Philips SHE3800
> and the their cable is similar to De'Mun one but it is actually different
> search for Coso Concept on FB


 
 I couldn't find anything on facebook, but found more pics, pointing to bengkel makro, perhaps they were a previous modded earphone that they sold and now focused on the edimun
  
 edit, found one more pic, the ones in the other link are edifers


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Is Seahf 400 Ohm easily driven?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

And what is difference between Seahf LD 4.0 and 3.0?


----------



## haiku

tayyab pirzada said:


> Is Seahf 400 Ohm easily driven?


 

 Yup. It has the same efficiency as the 150 Ohm. I can drive them easily with my AM1 module.
 I have to say though, that the Seahf 150 Ohm seems to be more addictive (after 3 days burn in) imo. The 400 Ohm has enough dynamic headroom for any kind of music you throw at it. It even eats my Tschaikowsky 1812 Telarc album (with the original cannon shots) for lunch. But with the 150 Ohm it seems like every tune reaches my ears like it´s pumped up with steroids. The 400 Ohm present the music more with a kind of ease.


----------



## haiku

tayyab pirzada said:


> And what is difference between Seahf LD 4.0 and 3.0?


 

 I´ll get the 3.0 soon, but from what I´ve read, the 4.0 is more balanced, and the cable doesn´t turn green after a while.
 The 4.0 is really the most "analog" sounding earbud I know. Silky smooth and completely non-fatiguing.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

haiku said:


> I´ll get the 3.0 soon, but from what I´ve read, the 4.0 is more balanced, and the cable doesn´t turn green after a while.
> The 4.0 is really the most "analog" sounding earbud I know. Silky smooth and completely non-fatiguing.


 
 I think Ill get 4.0 instead. Would my AK Jr and Fiio E12A amp be able to drive it?


----------



## haiku

tayyab pirzada said:


> I think Ill get 4.0 instead. Would my AK Jr and Fiio E12A amp be able to drive it?


 

 Sure. No problem.


----------



## kurtextrem

And now SeafH 400 4.0 vs TY Hi-Z 400 vs TY Hi-Z 400s


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Seahf has the most hype I think


----------



## haiku

tayyab pirzada said:


> Seahf has the most hype I think


 
  

 At least in China.


----------



## kurtextrem

Hm, not sure. I've searched in this thread and a few people like the TY Hi-Z 400(s) as well.
  
 For me, the Seahf 3.0 150 is too darkish and the sound is more far away. But the bass good. So it kind of reminds me of a ghetto blaster which is on the ground next to you (LOL)


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

haiku said:


> At least in China.


 
 And on Headfi lol


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

So Seahf 400 Ohm has the best sub-bass out of all eabuds? IEM level quality?


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> So Seahf 400 Ohm has the best sub-bass out of all eabuds? IEM level quality?


nope, Zen1.0 & beta Asura


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

golov17 said:


> nope, Zen1.0 & beta Asura


 
 What about Zen 2 vs Seahf?


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> What about Zen 2 vs Seahf?


sub-bass seahf vs mid bass zen2.0


----------



## Tomasz2D

tayyab pirzada said:


> So Seahf 400 Ohm has the best sub-bass out of all eabuds? IEM level quality?


 
 What do you mean by best sub-bass? Best by quantity or best by quality or both - best by quantity and quality?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

tomasz2d said:


> What do you mean by best sub-bass? Best by quantity or best by quality or both - best by quantity and quality?


 
 Any


----------



## chompy

golov17 said:


> nope, Zen1.0 & beta Asura


 
  
 And what do you think about Ostry KC08T?
  
 I want a V shaped earbud and if I'm understanding correctly all these buds your talking about have nice bass but don't extend as much as I like on treble. As a reference, to my liking VE Monk and Edifier H180 have rolled off highs, and I'm looking for a treble similar to what I get from Edifier H185 or Tomahawk.
  
 Thanks


----------



## dearyon

luedriver said:


> I couldn't find anything on facebook, but found more pics, pointing to bengkel makro, perhaps they were a previous modded earphone that they sold and now focused on the edimun
> 
> edit, found one more pic, the ones in the other link are edifers


 
 sorry...
 the "Concept" word is actually got shorten lol
 here is the link to the modder
 https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100012611132810
  


haiku said:


> I´d definitely throw the Seahf LD-4.0 400hm in the ring.


 
 Interesting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Wondering how that compare with Zens
  


kurtextrem said:


> Also my eyes see the AuGlamour RX-1


 
 I missed that one, wonder how it sounds. It looks really good...


----------



## Tomasz2D

tayyab pirzada said:


> Any


 
 SeaHF 400 and Ostry KC08 - they both are capable to produce similar amounts of bass/subbass (quantity) but Ostry KC08 has better quality bass.
  
 If you want to go further and deeper - this is DUNU Alpha 1, much better by both bass quantity and quality.
  
 For budget bass solution - that would be the one I have mentioned earlier to Vapman.


----------



## luedriver

dearyon said:


> sorry...
> the "Concept" word is actually got shorten lol
> here is the link to the modder
> https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100012611132810


 
  
  
 thanks, do you think they take orders for ready made earbuds?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> Only if you do not bother detailed sound on the bright side


 
 Ah I see I see. Guess I will skip them then.


----------



## golov17

chompy said:


> And what do you think about Ostry KC08T?
> 
> I want a V shaped earbud and if I'm understanding correctly all these buds your talking about have nice bass but don't extend as much as I like on treble. As a reference, to my liking VE Monk and Edifier H180 have rolled off highs, and I'm looking for a treble similar to what I get from Edifier H185 or Tomahawk.
> 
> Thanks


 kc08t passed customs, and.. they will be in 2-3 days, I hope..


----------



## luedriver

also I saw a pair of tdk eb90's in the shops today and was kinda curious, but no a single page or opinion on them any where on the net, they are a ghost 
  
 they use the same shell as monk, the normal mx500 shell, that could mean that either these were made cheaply or less money were spent on the look of the earbud and more on the sound


----------



## dearyon

luedriver said:


> thanks, do you think they take orders for ready made earbuds?


 
 sorry, I don't know if they still take order or not... 
 all I know is they did mod Philips SHE3800 and they just open Coso Cncpt one/two months ago if I remember it correctly
 and modded SHE3800 got praise in Indonesia for its priceerformance ratio 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 just message them there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 but take note that they are pretty slow on replying (at least in my case when asking what kind of cable did they sell)


----------



## chompy

golov17 said:


> kc08t passed customs, and.. they will be in 2-3 days, I hope..


 
  
 Thanks! and sorry I thought that you already had them. My memory is starting to fail...


----------



## haiku

kurtextrem said:


> For me, the Seahf 3.0 150 is too darkish and the sound is more far away. But the bass good. So it kind of reminds me of a ghetto blaster which is on the ground next to you (LOL)


 
 Not here, but maybe it´s because we use different sources?


----------



## haiku

dearyon said:


> Interesting
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 For me, the Seahf don´t sound so mid-centric like the VE line up. If you like VE you probably don´t like the more natural Seahf sound signature.


----------



## kurtextrem

haiku said:


> For me, the Seahf don´t sound so mid-centric like the VE line up. If you like VE you probably don´t like the more natural Seahf sound signature.


 
 Look what I found: http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/4800#post_12601268 should explain the differences


----------



## dearyon

haiku said:


> For me, the Seahf don´t sound so mid-centric like the VE line up. If you like VE you probably don´t like the more natural Seahf sound signature.


 
 Thank you for this. I kinda have a picture of their sound signature now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 So basically Seahf is more 'all-rounder' than the 'mid-centric' VE


kurtextrem said:


> Look what I found: http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/4800#post_12601268 should explain the differences


 
 I've read this post but kinda always forget to bookmark it so, thank you for reminding me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 now if only someone tell me the difference between SeaHF LD 4.0 vs. TY Hi-Z HP400S because they look so similar 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And a few days ago I ordered a (probably the last) new old stock of Zen 1.0 from Thailand through local seller. Kinda lucky I guess, because there is only 1 unit lol


----------



## haiku

dearyon said:


> Thank you for this. I kinda have a picture of their sound signature now
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 At least that´s my impression, and that´s why I think the 4.0 400 Ohm could climb to the top of the ranking list.


----------



## kurtextrem

dearyon said:


> now if only someone tell me the difference between SeaHF LD 4.0 vs. TY Hi-Z HP400S because they look so similar


 
 Yep, the real struggle. I like the VE signature more than Cygnus (for now), but Seahf 3.0 150Ohm sounds too darkish for me.... The struggle between Zen 2.0, LD 4.0 and HP400S is so real.


----------



## dearyon

kurtextrem said:


> Yep, the real struggle. I like the VE signature more than Cygnus (for now), but Seahf 3.0 150Ohm sounds too darkish for me....
> *The struggle between Zen 2.0, LD 4.0 and HP400S is so real.*


 
 hahaha at least we are not poisoned yet


----------



## mochill

Rose mojito is a digital V-shaped earbud☺


----------



## emptymt

how do Ak Jr -> Cygnus sound?
 I'm looking for comparison with AK Jr -> zen 2.0.
  
 I'm a little scared the slight warm nature of AK Jr will not pair well with an already warm earbuds.
 Right now I'm aggravating to the cygnus more just because of impedance.


----------



## golov17

mochill said:


> Rose mojito is a digital V-shaped earbud☺


 I should try them with tube amp ☺


----------



## audio123

is it normal to prefer monk > zen ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 one reason i prefer monk is that it is not as detailed as zen and thus more musical


----------



## emptymt

emptymt said:


> how do Ak Jr -> Cygnus sound?
> I'm looking for comparison with AK Jr -> zen 2.0.
> 
> I'm a little scared the slight warm nature of AK Jr will not pair well with an already warm earbuds.
> Right now I'm aggravating to the cygnus more just because of impedance.


 

 forgot to mention that i listen to metal most of the time, so looking for the better bud for metal listening between zen 2 and cygnus, but ak jr needs to be able to drive the bud properly


----------



## golov17

Hmm.. What??


----------



## audio123

golov17 said:


> Hmm.. What??


 

 whats that?


----------



## emptymt

golov17 said:


> Hmm.. What??


 

 I think you received wrong package mate, I ordered something from China once and it happened to me.


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> whats that?


Cheap Rose (not my) ☺


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> Hmm.. What??


 
 This is Roses, entry level item. They call it "promotion" or "service" item on their Taobao store.


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> This is Roses, entry level item. They call it "promotion" or "service" item on their Taobao store.


Price?


----------



## audio123

golov17 said:


> Cheap Rose (not my) ☺


 

 oh what did u order tho?


----------



## Tomasz2D

golov17 said:


> Hmm.. What??


 
 So they changed the shell once again in Mojitos. Good move - before they looked too generic - now they are more distinguished. Haha.


----------



## Tomasz2D

audionewbi3 said:


> This is Roses, entry level item. They call it "promotion" or "service" item on their Taobao store.


 
 Can you post the link to their Taobao store?


----------



## kinetic758

golov17 said:


> kc08t passed customs, and.. they will be in 2-3 days, I hope..




Not much tracking updates on my Mojito. It's stuck on "Your item has been processed through a facility in HONG KONG AIR MAIL CENTRE". My last order from Penon arrived in 8 days. Not sure why this one is taking longer!


----------



## golov17

kinetic758 said:


> Not much tracking updates on my Mojito. It's stuck on "Your item has been processed through a facility in HONG KONG AIR MAIL CENTRE". My last order from Penon arrived in 8 days. Not sure why this one is taking longer!


 this is because they are not ready in stock, the seller has to wait for the manufacture of piece..
My too..


----------



## kinetic758

golov17 said:


> this is because they are not ready in stock, the seller has to wait for the manufacture of piece..
> My too..




I was told they were in stock before I purchased them. Otherwise, there would be no tracking info at all right? Have you received yours yet?


----------



## golov17

kinetic758 said:


> I was told they were in stock before I purchased them. Otherwise, there would be no tracking info at all right? Have you received yours yet?


 you can get the real registered track number without actually sending, is common practice


----------



## golov17

Paid 2016-07-15


----------



## vapman

Both times I bought a mojito i got tracking right away and had to wait for the mojito will be built and received by the seller. there was a miscommunication between me and HCKexin first time I got it and I yelled at him but then he re-explained the situation and I understood what was going on. I had bought 6 or 7 non-Mojito things. Once I talked to him to realize I was waiting on the mojito, he showed me tracking for the mojito to him, showed it would be delivered to him in the morning and he sent it that day. I received it about 2 weeks afterwards. was very happy.
  
 Did the same thing this time around. Bought the Mojito with 5 or 6 cheapo items (mostly new KZ's) and just waiting the mojito to show up. Sadly HCKexin remembers me as the guy who yelled at him for not sending the Mojito fast enough.... so he provided me with the updates first this time around.
  
 v
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





v
  
*tl;dr Mojitos are custom built to order, there is no ready-to-go Mojito stock, so ask your seller when they are supposed to get the Mojito in if you want an idea of what day it'll shape.*


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> Both times I bought a mojito i got tracking right away and had to wait for the mojito will be built and received by the seller. there was a miscommunication between me and HCKexin first time I got it and I yelled at him but then he re-explained the situation and I understood what was going on. I had bought 6 or 7 non-Mojito things. Once I talked to him to realize I was waiting on the mojito, he showed me tracking for the mojito to him, showed it would be delivered to him in the morning and he sent it that day. I received it about 2 weeks afterwards. was very happy.
> 
> Did the same thing this time around. Bought the Mojito with 5 or 6 cheapo items (mostly new KZ's) and just waiting the mojito to show up. Sadly HCKexin remembers me as the guy who yelled at him for not sending the Mojito fast enough.... so he provided me with the updates first this time around.
> 
> ...




Thanks for this. If this is the case, then I was very much misled by the seller who said: "we have rose mojito in stock now , you can just place an order , we will ship it at once you make payment". 

So either they're giving me a returned unit or they weren't very truthful! This is from a pretty reputable seller too... Whom all of you know about.


----------



## vapman

In my experience the only fully truthful AliExpress seller I have dealt with is VE.... who now has their own paypal enabled site anyway.
  
 When I got my QingYin QY30 from AliExpress, the seller gave me a tracking number and said it was coming DHL Express. 2 weeks later, still showed up as invalid on DHL tracking. Asked them about it on a Saturday, they said it was delayed because of the weekend and would show up on Monday.
  
 I knew the QY30 had to be built to order but they said they had in in hand 2 days after paying.
  
 On Monday DHL tracking reported it had been tended to DHL on the Saturday I called them out
  
 Many eye rollings occurred that day. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
@kinetic758


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> In my experience the only fully truthful AliExpress seller I have dealt with is VE.... who now has their own paypal enabled site anyway.
> 
> When I got my QingYin QY30 from AliExpress, the seller gave me a tracking number and said it was coming DHL Express. 2 weeks later, still showed up as invalid on DHL tracking. Asked them about it on a Saturday, they said it was delayed because of the weekend and would show up on Monday.
> 
> ...






So is it possible that even though the status said it left Hong Kong for its destination, that the order is actually not fulfilled?


----------



## vapman

kinetic758 said:


> So is it possible that even though the status said it left Hong Kong for its destination, that the order is actually not fulfilled?


 
 Your order is fulfilled and on the way. there's no way unless you have a second package coming later?


----------



## Saoshyant

@vapman Yep, had a similar issue with the Rose Pudding, as I bought it on the 2nd & finally saw my first tracking update 3 weeks after I received tracking info. If Posting on tracking means when it's originally handed over, that was a little bit too long.


----------



## vapman

Yeah that's when it was handed over. I have a lot of experience shipping stuff and that always indicates when it's been handed over to the post office. If your seller ever tries to tell you otherwise, they're lying. "Acceptance" and "Origin Post is Preparing Shipment" should happen pretty much immediately when the seller goes to the post office or the mailman/mailwoman picks up the package from them.
  
 So in @kinetic758 screenshot his seller posted the package 4 days ago.


----------



## golov17

In any case, in this wasting ruinous hobbies, for all us will not hurt to have a little patience, lol


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> In any case, in this wasting ruinous hobbies, for all us will not hurt to have a little patience, lol


 
 Well put, alhough I'm never sure if the long waits for china mail keeps me from ordering or makes me order more at once than I usually would 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Probably the second


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Well put, alhough I'm never sure if the long waits for china mail keeps me from ordering or makes me order more at once than I usually would
> 
> Probably the second


Haha


----------



## ngoshawk

audio123 said:


> can i check on celsus gramo one @golov17
> thanks in advance!




Why don't you purchase them and give us the review...


----------



## rggz

I've tested Asura v2 today and definitely I'm not bass-head but I have missed some quick/punchy and quantity in this region to be more coherent and to my personal taste but works very well with acoustic music. Is Zen 2 similar in mids and treble area of Asura 2 w/ more bass?


----------



## kinetic758

@golov17
I never have enough patience! 

@vapman
If my package has, indeed, been posted then the seller surprisingly had the Mojito in stock at the time of purchase. Could it be that resellers keep a limited quantity in stock?


----------



## vapman

Yeah or maybe someone bought one then cancelled their order and they had one sitting around.


----------



## golov17

rggz said:


> I've tested Asura v2 today and definitely I'm not bass-head but I have missed some quick/punchy and quantity in this region to be more coherent and to my personal taste but works very well with acoustic music. Is Zen 2 similar in mids and treble area of Asura 2 w/ more bass?


 In fact Asura2.0 closer to MP, than to Zen2.0 other beast, with more darker presentation


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> Yeah or maybe someone bought one then cancelled their order and they had one sitting around.




As long as I don't get a unit that's been returned I'm fine with it! That's happened to me a few times (not necessarily headphones) so I'm a little paranoid. 

Maybe for a product as niche as this it's a little less likely.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

emptymt said:


> how do Ak Jr -> Cygnus sound?
> I'm looking for comparison with AK Jr -> zen 2.0.
> 
> I'm a little scared the slight warm nature of AK Jr will not pair well with an already warm earbuds.
> Right now I'm aggravating to the cygnus more just because of impedance.




Ak jr and Cygnus sound great to me


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

So confused whether I should get Zen 2 or Seahf 400 Ohm LD 4.0. I already have Ostry KC08t for its V-shaped and highly bassy sound so wonder if getting Seahf is kind of useless.


----------



## ld100

I have 30 dollars on in Ebay credits that will expire soon. Is there anything on Ebay worthy to spend them on?


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> So confused whether I should get Zen 2 or Seahf 400 Ohm LD 4.0. I already have Ostry KC08t for its V-shaped and highly bassy sound so wonder if getting Seahf is kind of useless.


 
 Zen 2
  
 Never heard the kc08t but sounds like it's already in Seahf's realm.
  
 Not to mention Seahf 400 is still half the price of Zen 2.
  


ld100 said:


> I have 30 dollars on in Ebay credits that will expire soon. Is there anything on Ebay worthy to spend them on?


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yuin-PK3-Earbuds-Earphones-/272279165463?hash=item3f651a5a17:g:8uUAAOSw-4BXZq7F ? (never heard this one but it was in the price range)
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-HiFiMAN-ES-100-In-Ear-Earbud-Headphone-Earphones-w-15mm-Dynamic-Drivers-/291441628949?hash=item43db465715:g:NDkAAOSwv0tVOTCW <- good earbuds but mine had to be warranty replaced twice, that said if you don't push stupid amounts of bass to them they should be good for a long time
  
 I've been gettin those emails about ebay credits for a long time, maybe i should start using them...


----------



## ld100

ld100 said:


> I have 30 dollars on in Ebay credits that will expire soon. Is there anything on Ebay worthy to spend them on?


 
  
 Or maybe like cool/good caring and storage cares?


----------



## mochill

rggz said:


> I've tested Asura v2 today and definitely I'm not bass-head but I have missed some quick/punchy and quantity in this region to be more coherent and to my personal taste but works very well with acoustic music. Is Zen 2 similar in mids and treble area of Asura 2 w/ more bass?


Yes it is


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

What makes the Zen 2 worth the price? It is kind of expensive. Is there a way to get it cheaper somewhere?


----------



## mochill

Quality, sound , build


----------



## ld100

Also what are the best cheap cases from Ali? I saw some pictures that carbon fiber look? And any triangular ones? Please, let me know if you got good ones and from which seller. Thanks


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

ld100 said:


> Also what are the best cheap cases from Ali? I saw some pictures that carbon fiber look? And any triangular ones? Please, let me know if you got good ones and from which seller. Thanks




I personally just use a mini pouch


----------



## ld100

tayyab pirzada said:


> I personally just use a mini pouch


 
  
 Which one? Link?


----------



## Spider fan

ld100 said:


> I have 30 dollars on in Ebay credits that will expire soon. Is there anything on Ebay worthy to spend them on?


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/141924623229?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
  
 or if you cant find anything else might as well get something
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/291737627352?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 different sounding and exactly in your range


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

ld100 said:


> Which one? Link?


 
 https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/0738713988/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## kurtextrem

Wow, ClieOS updated his list! Look who's first of the THE GREAT
  
 ALL JUMP ON THE HYPE TRAIN


----------



## Spider fan

kurtextrem said:


> Wow, ClieOS updated his list! Look who's first of the THE GREAT
> 
> ALL JUMP ON THE HYPE TRAIN


 
 wow didnt expect that hopping on now


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

spider fan said:


> wow didnt expect that hopping on now


 
 wow better than Zen 2 and Cygnus...?


----------



## Danneq

Well well. Then it's good that I made a blind purchase of a black one! It was so cool looking that I bought it just because of its looks...


----------



## vapman

I was worried it would look great but sound bad. Glad to see that's not the case. I'm putting in an order now too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Thank you @ClieOS for making the first post great again!


----------



## Spider fan

tayyab pirzada said:


> wow better than Zen 2 and Cygnus...?


 
 no clue but for $21 hard to pass up....going with florida state gold  lol


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Ok I ordered them too...


----------



## kurtextrem

The hype train is rollin hard.... golden bud for 20$ no one can say no


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kurtextrem said:


> The hype train is rollin hard.... golden bud for 20$ no one can say no


 
 I got silver, to match my silver Huawei Mate 8 phone and silver AK Jr and silver Fiio E12A


----------



## Spider fan

Probably be over $30 in a few days when they see a spike in orders lol


----------



## kurtextrem

tayyab pirzada said:


> I got silver, to match my silver Huawei Mate 8 phone and silver AK Jr and silver Fiio E12A


 
 it looks like a 200$ no matter which color you buy, because you know... fancy form


----------



## Danneq

Black... For that industrial cyberpunk look...


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

spider fan said:


> Probably be over $30 in a few days when they see a spike in orders lol


 
 Thats why I got them now lol


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> Well well. Then it's good that I made a blind purchase of a black one! It was so cool looking that I bought it just because of its looks...


 
 Looks like we have to find something else as wall decoration or earrings / necklace


----------



## Spider fan

tayyab pirzada said:


> Thats why I got them now lol


 
 Lol yah me too.
  
 Thanks to ClieOS for the update and to Kurt for making us aware.  I wouldnt of looked at the list for a long time since I wasnt really looking for any more buds or iems right now.


----------



## rggz

From http://blog.livedoor.jp/headphone_metal/
  


> AUGLAMOUR RX-1 is quite good, isn't it? The sound is very flat and is bland sound. The resolution may be number one current state loving sound highly under inner Year at about 20 dollars. The make of the steel case also is very good and is the product which seems able to rip into the standard low-price inner Year. The tone after aging is Tano stain.


 

 Sounds good!


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

rggz said:


> From http://blog.livedoor.jp/headphone_metal/
> 
> 
> Sounds good!


 
 Bland sound doesnt sound good...


----------



## Spider fan

tayyab pirzada said:


> Bland sound doesnt sound good...


 

 maybe a bad choice by google translate


----------



## rggz

tayyab pirzada said:


> Bland sound doesnt sound good...


 

 I don't know if the translation was very accurate (using http://www.excite.co.jp/ which is better than google for Japanese) may be some native Japanese can help here, btw is just a subjective/first impression.


----------



## ld100

So how many will order AuGlamour today? Count me in!


----------



## kinetic758

ld100 said:


> So how many will order AuGlamour today? Count me in!




Dang. I guess I have to.


----------



## Spider fan

kinetic758 said:


> Dang. I guess I have to.


 
 Too inexpensive to pass up lol


----------



## Spider fan

Jant71 found these listed on Amazon Us for $15.99
  
 https://www.amazon.com/AUGLAMOUR-Earbuds-Headphones-Oxygen-free-Earphone/dp/B01IJME3QM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1469392493&sr=8-1&keywords=Auglamour+RX-1


----------



## kinetic758

spider fan said:


> Jant71 found these listed on Amazon Us for $15.99
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/AUGLAMOUR-Earbuds-Headphones-Oxygen-free-Earphone/dp/B01IJME3QM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1469392493&sr=8-1&keywords=Auglamour+RX-1




Awesome. Would be nice if they sold it in black too.


----------



## Spider fan

kinetic758 said:


> Awesome. Would be nice if they sold it in black too.


 
 I just left my AE order.  I can wait.  I have basically gotten all my earbuds except the monk plus in the last month.  I only listen like an hour a day so other then my zen black my other stuff hasnt gotten any fair eartime.  Plus I want Florida State gold lol.


----------



## Tomasz2D

spider fan said:


> Jant71 found these listed on Amazon Us for $15.99


 
 This is interesting. And now we see second hand market flooded with thousands of used Tomahawks, Cygnuses and Zen 2.0 for 5 bucks. And Aztec Axe cuts the price of Mojito into little pieces and Mojito is now for 50 bucks new. OK, in my dream - it never happened to Yuin.


----------



## jant71

Yeah, I always wanted a better price on an OK1 
  
 Anyhow, I guess I am the guinea pig for them from that US seller. Hope they come in when expected and w/o any delay.


----------



## ngoshawk

spider fan said:


> Jant71 found these listed on Amazon Us for $15.99
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/AUGLAMOUR-Earbuds-Headphones-Oxygen-free-Earphone/dp/B01IJME3QM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1469392493&sr=8-1&keywords=Auglamour+RX-1




For that price, I may have to bite...


----------



## Tomasz2D

jant71 said:


> Yeah, I always wanted a better price on an OK1


 
 Me too, but instead we will rather see Lee from VE will have to finally come up with some kind of fancy ratail packing for his Zen 2.0.


----------



## phiely

RX-1 ordered and will soon join my earbud harem.


----------



## vapman

jant71 said:


> Yeah, I always wanted a better price on an OK1
> 
> Anyhow, I guess I am the guinea pig for them from that US seller. Hope they come in when expected and w/o any delay.


 

 Thanks Jant71! you rock 
  
 I already bought one from Ali in gold for $22 but surely if these are USA stock they'll get here first.
  
 P.S. I put up my review of the Qingyin if you hadn't seen it yet/was waiting for it.
  
 Maybe when the gold gets in i'll give the silver away


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Someone tell me where I can find Zen 2 for cheaper now...190 Canadian Dollar is too much


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Anyone know where I can find Blox TM7?


----------



## Danneq

tayyab pirzada said:


> Anyone know where I can find Blox TM7?




Second hand market, I suppose. It was a very limited release in 2012 and I do not think many of the owners would want to sell their TM7.


----------



## ld100

I apologize for my ignorance... It seem that two driver Mojito is a clear current favorite... Why is it the only two driver earbud out there? Should not be that difficult to design and make 2-3 driver units? And not overly expensive...


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

ld100 said:


> I apologize for my ignorance... It seem that two driver Mojito is a clear current favorite... Why is it the only two driver earbud out there? Should not be that difficult to design and make 2-3 driver units? And not overly expensive...




There are other dual driver earbuds and IEM's out there. But nothing comes close in my opinion to Rose Mojito in terms of bass, soundstage and ultra detailing.

I tried the DIY Dual Driver as well and it had great detail and soundstage but lacked in bass. Thinking of selling it.


----------



## ld100

What was it?


----------



## Spider fan

ld100 said:


> What was it?


 
 I linked them for you earlier in a reply to your ebay question since they are $29.90 on ebay.


----------



## ld100

spider fan said:


> I linked them for you earlier in a reply to your ebay question since they are $29.90 on ebay.




Yes. I remember that. Thank you. Will find that post!


----------



## emptymt

tayyab pirzada said:


> Ak jr and Cygnus sound great to me


 

 Nice!, just waiting for impression on AK Jr -> zen 2.0.
 that way I can have comparison from the other side


----------



## emptymt

tayyab pirzada said:


> Ak jr and Cygnus sound great to me


 

 Nice!, just waiting for impression on AK Jr -> zen 2.0.
 that way I can have comparison from the other side


----------



## Saoshyant

Ordered RX1 from Amazon, should have them in stock the 31st. I think their standing seriously pushed up sales.


----------



## ngoshawk

saoshyant said:


> Ordered RX1 from Amazon, should have them in stock the 31st. I think their standing seriously pushed up sales.




When I checked earlier today, it was July 27, then July 28...Pretty sure it was due to this thread...


----------



## Spider fan

lol price already went up $2 on Amazon


----------



## ngoshawk

Now to Aug 3...


----------



## jant71

See. Gotta get in early 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## ngoshawk

Or pass all together...


----------



## Saoshyant

Wow, guess I bought one of the last $16 pairs!


----------



## kinetic758

Should have pulled the trigger on those RX1's while I was stuck in traffic! 

On a positive note, my Mojito's have made it to LA. I guess Penon keeps some in stock, since they were shipped almost immediately after my order was placed.


----------



## audio123

can i ask which platform is the cheapest to buy auglamour rx1 thanks!


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

audio123 said:


> can i ask which platform is the cheapest to buy auglamour rx1 thanks!


 
 Amazon is cheapest but they only have it in silver. Aliexpress is a few dollars more but offers shiny black and gold options as well. Not many places to get gold earbuds lol.


----------



## vapman

By the time anyone else goes back to amazon they might be Ali priced.
  
 No idea how they were able to sell them at 15.99, that was wild.
  
 If my delivery date gets pushed past August 1 I blame all of you...


----------



## Joy Boy

dearyon said:


> I'm happy that sir @ClieOS
> updated his earbuds list
> 
> 
> ...



FYI, you won't find any info of philips she3800 oh their site? Why? Because it's not an official product of philips. Just an OEM. 
That's why the package is so damn simple.

Btw, i also purchase RX1 via local seller. I can't purchase it directly. He said it will arrive on august mid. So damn long waiting -_-


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Just bought the RX-1
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (black) from their official Taobao today for USD22.28..........I DO NOT NEED MORE EARBUDS!!!!
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.pAS3JK&id=535581851631&_u=p2i926djce52
  
 It will also come with a random 2nd hand audio CD lol!
  
@ClieOS sifu, my deepest gratitude to you for taking the time and effort to once again update the list! THANK-YOU!
  


> AUGLAMOUR RX-1はかなり良いですね。音はとてもフラットで癖の無い音です。解像度が高く20ドル程度のインナーイヤーでは現状一番好きな音かも。筐体の造りもとても良いですし低価格インナーイヤーの定番に食い込めそうな製品ですね。エージング後の音がタノシミ。


 
 From my JLPT N3 understanding:
 The AUGLAMOUR RX-1 is a very well earbud. The sound is extremely flat with no coloration. It is also the most resolving earbud in this price range. The construction of the earbud is also very well made for the given price. I will look forward to its sound after some "aging" (burn-in to you and me) .
  
http://blog.livedoor.jp/headphone_metal/


----------



## vapman

I want a secondhand CD with mine, what the heck!


----------



## music4mhell

Mojito reached my local post office


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

What do people think of tube amps like Schiit Valhalla 2? Tube amps in general I mean though...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tayyab pirzada said:


> What do people think of tube amps like Schiit Valhalla 2? Tube amps in general I mean though...


 
 excessively high gain hahaha


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> I want a secondhand CD with mine, what the heck!


 
 Such is the way that sellers conduct business on Taobao


----------



## vapman

I like using tube amps with earbuds but I always have my amps set to high gain. just how it is being a basshead.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

What are the benefit of tube amp over a solid state amp? Other than looking cool.


----------



## vapman

That is waaaay out of the scope of this thread. Generally speaking some will say they have a "warmer" or "smoother" or "more natural" tone than solid state. _Very generally speaking_ the thinking is usually that solid state is cold and intense whereas tube is warm and relaxed.
  
 But this thread is not the place to get into a tube vs. SS argument. Tube amps don't really do low gain almost ever so you may find it's like trying to amp IEMs on high gain.... not the easiest thing to do.
  
 Half the reason I can always use high gain is my insane EQ puts my pre gain to -21dB. Sub bass frequencies are boosted up to 30dB.
  
 P.S. good work team, we managed to push the Auglamour RX-1 into the *#14* space on* Best Sellers in **Sports Fan Headphones* (whatever that means?) on Amazon!


----------



## dearyon

@ClieOS is awesome 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 look for all this hype for Auglamour RX1
 I'm sure that RX1 could make me put my Tomahawk in its case forever lol
 though, I can't join this hype now since my wallet is totally empty for that NOS Zen 1 orz

 Quote: 





joy boy said:


> FYI, you won't find any info of philips she3800 oh their site? Why? Because it's not an official product of philips. Just an OEM.
> That's why the package is so damn simple.
> 
> Btw, i also purchase RX1 via local seller. I can't purchase it directly. He said it will arrive on august mid. So damn long waiting -_-


 
 I see, an OEM huh...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tayyab pirzada said:


> What are the benefit of tube amp over a solid state amp? Other than looking cool.


 
 According to my limited knowledge:
  
 Tubes (Valves) actually add some form of distortion to the audio signal, and thus people who love them will say that this "distortion" give a warm, slightly darkish, and analogue sound.
  
 Solid state on the other hand, can sound very "analytical" 
  
 3rd option is to go for a discrete setup where no opamp is used for buffer and amplification stage. Such amps according to some also seems to recreate the flavor of analogue tube amps.
  
 When you buy a tube amp, it can be either a pure tube amp or a hybrid amp where there are tubes and opamps in the circuit. 
  
 EDIT: As mention by Sir Vapman, pure tube amps will have excessively high gain for earbuds and iems, and is generally designed for full cans. Though that legendary 300b tube.........

 Maybe the higher impedance earbuds will fare better, but then again considering the difference in driver sizes between an earbud and a full sized cans, you might have little lee way on your volume control knob.


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> According to my limited knowledge:


 
 Well put, very complete and concise at once. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 ....and where's this NOS Zen1 at? O_O


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> Well put, very complete and concise at once.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks mate!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 The Zen1.0 nos from Thailand, last unit. (If I remembered correctly)


----------



## dearyon

audionewbi3 said:


> Thanks mate!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yep, last unit from Thailand distributor said my local seller. I'm sure it was a real Zen 1.0... hopefully.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

The *AUGLAMOUR RX-1* is up to *$17.99* now.  I should have got them earlier to save $2.00!  You all are forcing the price to go up quick!

 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01IJME3QM/
  
  
  
 BTW, no thanks to @golov17, I was forced into buying the *T-Music Earbud*.  Oh well, it is my birthday today, self gifts are the best.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 --


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> The *AUGLAMOUR RX-1* is up to *$17.99* now.  I should have got them earlier to save $2.00!  You all are forcing the price to go up quick!
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01IJME3QM/
> 
> ...


 
 It's your birthday mate, so why not just buy the RX-1 hahaha!

 Happy Birthday mate! Wishing you all the best, have an awesome day!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audionewbi3 said:


> It's your birthday mate, so why not just buy the RX-1 hahaha!
> 
> Happy Birthday mate! Wishing you all the best, have an awesome day!


 

 It is already sitting in my Amazon cart.  Debating on pulling the trigger.


----------



## vapman

@BloodyPenguin and my girlfriend share a birthday! congrats to the both of ya on this Christmas in July 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 She gets all my reject buds with microphones so she has a purse full of earbuds I deemed not good enough. So I guess she can hang with the earbud crew 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I bought the T-Music a couple days ago  I noticed @golov17 was the first order on the 22nd and then there was a flurry of orders after him. Hahaha. Aliexpress' "anonymity" system doesn't work too well when all of us know each other in these threads


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> @BloodyPenguin and my girlfriend share a birthday! congrats to the both of ya on this Christmas in July
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well Happy Birthday to her as well!
  
 My wife gets a LOT of my earbuds as well.  The difference is, she get the ones I still like.  We will always be relaxing in bed, I will be jamming to my usual Britney Spears a she will lean over and say "Don't you have an extra pair for me to use"?  I always respond with:  "What happened to the last pair I gave you'?  This goes on for a while until I find out where she has hid my stash of buds.
  
 --


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

And thanks to @vapman I have bought the Cayin C5, ontop of the Fiio E12A I already ordered. That's it, I've stopped now. My wallet hurts too much.


----------



## haiku

tayyab pirzada said:


> And thanks to @vapman I have bought the Cayin C5, ontop of the Fiio E12A I already ordered. That's it, I've stopped now.


 
  
 I´ve heard that too many times to believe it. See you tomorrow!


----------



## Spider fan

Its gone off of amazon now.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

spider fan said:


> Its gone off of amazon now.


 
  
 I must have got the last one of the *AUGLAMOUR RX-1* (for the time being).  I wonder if they will raise the price now.  Hope I get my order.
  
 --


----------



## Spider fan

bloodypenguin said:


> I must have got the last one of the *AUGLAMOUR RX-1* (for the time being).  I wonder if they will raise the price now.  Hope I get my order.
> 
> --


 
 I ordered on AE before Jant saw the Amazon listing.   It was $21 from the seller not discussed anymore.  It was the cheapest and reliable delivery wasnt his issue.


----------



## music4mhell

bloodypenguin said:


> spider fan said:
> 
> 
> > Its gone off of amazon now.
> ...


 
 How is *AUGLAMOUR RX-1, any impression ?*


----------



## Spider fan

music4mhell said:


> How is *AUGLAMOUR RX-1, any impression ?*


 
 Read the updated rankings on page 1.  Super high ranking


----------



## music4mhell

spider fan said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > How is *AUGLAMOUR RX-1, any impression ?*
> ...


 
 Thanks a ton, checked, let me order now


----------



## music4mhell

music4mhell said:


> spider fan said:
> 
> 
> > music4mhell said:
> ...


 
 Done ordered it  Let see how it compares to Cygnus, Zen, Ting, Mojito, Seahf !


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> The *AUGLAMOUR RX-1* is up to *$17.99* now.  I should have got them earlier to save $2.00!  You all are forcing the price to go up quick!
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01IJME3QM/
> 
> ...


----------



## vapman

^^ LOL
  
 Quote:


music4mhell said:


> Done ordered it  Let see how it compares to Cygnus, Zen, Ting, Mojito, Seahf !


 

 Too bad you let us run the price up all day first


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> ^^ LOL
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
 $21, Meh, when i compare to other high end earbuds, it's price nothing, so i didn't try to bargain at all.
 If it is really good, then it will be best value for money earbud of all time


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> $21, Meh, when i compare to other high end earbuds, it's price nothing, so i didn't try to bargain at all.
> If it is really good, then it will be best value for money earbud of all time


 

 Forgot you were ordering from Ali and not Amazon. I ordered a Gold from AliExpress before the Amazon sale went up, so I have a silver and a gold on the way.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

music4mhell said:


> Done ordered it  Let see how it compares to Cygnus, Zen, Ting, Mojito, Seahf !


 
 Nothing beats Mojito


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > $21, Meh, when i compare to other high end earbuds, it's price nothing, so i didn't try to bargain at all.
> ...


 
 I ordered the Gold.
 Don't say every color has diff sound signature, then i have to order all 3


----------



## vapman

A good day for earbuds, indeed. My T-Music Bass Noise Canceller, Remax RM305M, and gold Auglamour are all shipped 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Would laugh if the gold one beat Amazon getting their stock. Right now it's showing gets in stock on the 1st and estimated delivery on the 1st... yeah ok 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
@Tayyab Pirzada Sorry for your wallet, sorry the C5 is definitely gonna make you want to get more into amps, but remember the C5 is really danged nice! i used it as my home preamp for quite a while actually even...


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> A good day for earbuds, indeed. My T-Music Bass Noise Canceller, Remax RM305M, and gold Auglamour are all shipped
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 My wallet will be crying in a few months time I expect


----------



## vapman

Well, none of us are in this hobby to save money, as an internet buddy once told me...
  
 Sorry if I missed it but I'm still curious if anyone has the Seahf's and got some of the TY HI-Z's too. Awful tempted to try a 150 as they are much much cheaper than the 400's.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Does higher impedance mean better resolution?


----------



## vapman

Unfortunately it's never that simple, impedance tells so little of the headphone's story 
 I know some people have both the 150 and 320 but i don't think anyone has the 150 and 400?


----------



## luedriver

I spoke with coso cncpt this what they had to say about the philips she3800 mod
  
   




> Just my opinion and compare with stock philips she 3800
> 
> 
> 
> Low punch,tight Mid sweet vokal High more open and layering


 
   




> Coso cable is a cooper white for ground and red for signal
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  what I understood is the earbuds with white cable are tuned for low and mids, while the ones with the red cable are tuned for mids and highs
  
  
 when I asked about the cost
  
  




> IDR 235.000 sir
> 
> 
> 
> Include case,sticker,and foam 4 pair full colour


 
 however the shipping was
  


> Shipping to australia from indonesia IDR 250.000


----------



## vapman

I paid less than IDR 200000 for shipping when I bought a Red De'Mun, bMac portable amplifier and iPod LOD from Bengkel Macro to the USA...


----------



## luedriver

count one more on the *AuGlamour RX-1 *hype train, a bit more than 30aud but I couldn't refuse after seeing the op's statement, one of the great earbuds for only 30$ free shipping....
  
 now waiting for ty hi-z hp-32 and now this unexpected purchase


----------



## Tomasz2D

music4mhell said:


> I ordered the Gold.
> Don't say every color has diff sound signature, then i have to order all 3


 
 The color has huge impact on sound (remember - red earbuds are the fastest)  And as a true collector you should own all colors anyway


----------



## luedriver

@[b]golov17[/b] 
  
 can you compare the philips sh3800 to the edifer h180 (unmoded), if you have them both?
  
 are they the same earbud or different?
  
 if so how different?


----------



## luedriver

tomasz2d said:


> The color has huge impact on sound (remember - red earbuds are the fastest)  And as a true collector you should own all colors anyway


 
 I ordered black, thus the slowest  or perhaps the darkest sounding


----------



## music4mhell

Just got my Mojito, unboxing now


----------



## audio123

Will penon audio carry the ag rx1?


----------



## jrazmar

music4mhell said:


> Just got my Mojito, unboxing now


 
  
 let us know how it compares with Cygnus and Zen 2.0. thanks!


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

jrazmar said:


> let us know how it compares with Cygnus and Zen 2.0. thanks!


 
 Never tried Zen 2 but the Mojito kills the Cygnus. Although they are different sound signatures.


----------



## music4mhell

tayyab pirzada said:


> jrazmar said:
> 
> 
> > let us know how it compares with Cygnus and Zen 2.0. thanks!
> ...


 
 Buddy, need a small tip. While connecting the wire to Mojito, the L/R marking should be inside oor outside ?
 Or it doesn't matter which way i connect ?


----------



## golov17

i prefer she3800 vs h180


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

music4mhell said:


> Buddy, need a small tip. While connecting the wire to Mojito, the L/R marking should be inside oor outside ?
> Or it doesn't matter which way i connect ?


 
 Marking should be outside. L should be blue earbud and r should be red earbud.


----------



## music4mhell

tayyab pirzada said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Buddy, need a small tip. While connecting the wire to Mojito, the L/R marking should be inside oor outside ?
> ...


 
 Any difference between these two wires with respect to sound quality ?


----------



## luedriver

golov17 said:


> i prefer she3800 vs h180


 
  
 in what way?

 
 
ClieOS     says Edifier H180 - Warm, if not a bit mid centric and unremarkable.
 
 
 how do the she3800 differ?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

music4mhell said:


> Any difference between these two wires with respect to sound quality ?


 
 Most people say no. I think braided cable sounds slighlty better. In fact I ordered another cable, the Lune MKIII cable from Null Audio, for my Mojito.


----------



## dearyon

luedriver said:


> I spoke with coso cncpt this what they had to say about the philips she3800 mod
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 yeah, shipping to worldwide from Indonesia will cost more than a Monk >.>


----------



## music4mhell

tayyab pirzada said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Any difference between these two wires with respect to sound quality ?
> ...


 
 I felt the same,
 Any tips on usage of Mojito ?
 Damn as u mentioned, truly Mojito has left all my earbuds behind


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

music4mhell said:


> I felt the same,
> Any tips on usage of Mojito ?
> Damn as u mentioned, truly Mojito has left all my earbuds behind


 
 Another person joins the Mojito hype train! Welcome aboard. Tips...make sure your source is either a good DAP or a phone/PC with a good DAC, and also look into getting an amp to make them sound even better.
  
 They say Mojito is only good for classical but I enjoy it with all genres with no complaints.


----------



## luedriver

dearyon said:


> yeah, shipping to worldwide from Indonesia will cost more than a Monk >.>


 
 more like 2 monks with shipping for each and $5 aud change
  
 but if the end result is what counts maybe $50 aud with shipping is worth it, but I wouldn't know...


----------



## Tomasz2D

music4mhell said:


> Damn as u mentioned, truly Mojito has left all my earbuds behind


 
 Wow, this is like live feed. Eager to hear more of your first impressions. Does Mojito reverberate?


----------



## music4mhell

tomasz2d said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Damn as u mentioned, truly Mojito has left all my earbuds behind
> ...


 
 I am in office now, so i don't want to be hasty 
 In a nutshell, i can say, let's assume you are hearing same song from two source,One is Highend Vinyl & other is high end DAC.
 Analogy is,
 Mojito - High end DAC
 Zen 2 - High End Vinyl
  
 This is on nigh level, comparison.
 Now i will test my 75 Ohm impedance adapter on Mojito also


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

music4mhell said:


> I am in office now, so i don't want to be hasty
> In a nutshell, i can say, let's assume you are hearing same song from two source,One is Highend Vinyl & other is high end DAC.
> Analogy is,
> Mojito - High end DAC
> ...


 
 This is exactly what I meant by the Mojito having "digital" sound in my review of them


----------



## Tomasz2D

music4mhell said:


> I am in office now, so i don't want to be hasty
> In a nutshell, i can say, let's assume you are hearing same song from two source,One is Highend Vinyl & other is high end DAC.
> Analogy is,
> Mojito - High end DAC
> Zen 2 - High End Vinyl


 
  
 For Zen 2 - agree - good analogy - analog/vinyl/tube amp like type of sound. And please, this is very important to me. I know I asked this question here many times and it has been replied here many times but I need to know also your answer. Check if Mojito add its own reverberation to orginal recordings. Zen 2.0 is a good one to be compared as reference becouse Zen 2.0 is dead quiet and does not reverberate at all. And do not be hypnotized and fooled by big space/wide soundstage/3D/airy type of feeling becouse this effect may be (but not have to) created if headphones (earbuds) add its own reverberation.
  
 Also, I am interested how Mojitos pair with Mojo (similar names) becouse both are said to be sort of digital sounding. I use Mojo and I can say this is true. So Mojito plus Mojo - wouldn't be to overwhelmingly DIGITAL sounding?
  
 Just take your time - you do not have to answer these questions now.


----------



## luedriver

*only change the word unicorn for earbuds


----------



## ballog

I wonder how long the Mojito troll will be hanging around this thread?


----------



## haiku

vapman said:


> Unfortunately it's never that simple, impedance tells so little of the headphone's story
> I know some people have both the 150 and 320 but i don't think anyone has the 150 and 400?


 
  

 You kidding? I HAVE!


----------



## haiku

music4mhell said:


> I am in office now, so i don't want to be hasty
> In a nutshell, i can say, let's assume you are hearing same song from two source,One is Highend Vinyl & other is high end DAC.
> Analogy is,
> Mojito - High end DAC
> Zen 2 - High End Vinyl


 
 So, no Mojito for me then. I prefer the analogue sound of my Seahf´s.


----------



## ngoshawk

luedriver said:


> *only change the word unicorn for earbuds




Lol, joining the rx1 train....sigh.


----------



## golov17

haiku said:


> You kidding? I HAVE!


 too  32,150,320,400


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> haiku said:
> 
> 
> > You kidding? I HAVE!
> ...


 
 I have 32, 150, 400. Missing 320


----------



## haiku

But do both of you also own LD-1 + 2+ 3 + 4?


----------



## haiku

tayyab pirzada said:


> Does higher impedance mean better resolution?


 

 In the end it´s all about YOUR maximum enjoyment of your music. If a low impedance earbud does it - fine. If a high impedance earbud does it - also fine. That´s why imo bro Lee from VE is right when he says, for some even the Monk might be all it takes.


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I am in office now, so i don't want to be hasty
> ...


 
 I feel, i should take a chance on Seahf LD 4.0


----------



## ngoshawk

music4mhell said:


> I feel, i should take a chance on Seahf LD 4.0




I feel I should hide my wallet and smartphone away for a good looooonngggg time....


----------



## dearyon

haiku said:


> So, no Mojito for me then. I prefer the analogue sound of my Seahf´s.


 
 totally agree with this, I'm an analog head. So I prefer something that sound analog.
 That is why I stay away from Mojito despite all the hype and being in the champion list (and its price is one of the reason too actually lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 and sir @haiku, if you received all the Seahf you ordered, please tell me the difference between all of them. If not possible, just tell me which one is the best for you. Thank you


----------



## haiku

dearyon said:


> totally agree with this, I'm an analog head. So I prefer something that sound analog.
> That is why I stay away from Mojito despite all the hype and being in the champion list (and its price is one of the reason too actually lol
> 
> 
> ...


 
  

 No problem, bro....


----------



## audio123

just bought rx-1 from penon!


----------



## Joy Boy

golov17 said:


> too  32,150,320,400



Ever had 32-320, never tried 400. For seahf v1, best is 320 ohm (white). I heard for v2 the best is 150.
But still i never tried 400, so..who knows


----------



## AudioNewbi3

audionewbi3 said:


> FWIW, Rose Mojito utilizes TF10 2 Pin connectors with a male diameter of 0.75. The earbuds do not have a left or right. They are determined by how one plugs the cable into the bud. If you plug in the right cable on to blue side of Mojito, then blue will be right. On the original cable, the R and L markings should face outward to ensure correct polarity and avoid phase cancellation.
> 
> Hope this helps.


 
  
  


music4mhell said:


> Buddy, need a small tip. While connecting the wire to Mojito, the L/R marking should be inside oor outside ?
> Or it doesn't matter which way i connect ?


 
  
  


tayyab pirzada said:


> Marking should be outside. L should be blue earbud and r should be red earbud.


 
  
  


music4mhell said:


> Any difference between these two wires with respect to sound quality ?


 
  
  
 The stiffer cable according to Rose is actually the better cable. It is the "French Orchestral Cable" or some other fancy name.
 The Chinese forums say that the braided cable is more suitable for Vocals while the French cable for Instrumentals.
   
 Quote:


music4mhell said:


> I felt the same,
> Any tips on usage of Mojito ?
> Damn as u mentioned, truly Mojito has left all my earbuds behind


 
 If you can, get rubber rings for the Mojito and use Monk+ thin foams over them. Perfect sound to my ears. Also reconmended by ClieoOS

 Left no rubber rings, right with rubber rings
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.PAU1kX&id=527963922942&_u=p2i926dj6b0c
 Type B rubber rings.
  
  


ballog said:


> I wonder how long the Mojito troll will be hanging around this thread?


 
 Who's the troll mate?


----------



## golov17

Arrived.Very good! Best vocal, than other Blox


----------



## audio123

golov17 said:


> Arrived.Very good! Best vocal, than other Blox


 

 what earbuds is that and is that shanling m5?


----------



## Tomasz2D

audio123 said:


> what earbuds is that and is that shanling m5?


 
 Blox B200


----------



## kinetic758

audionewbi3 said:


> The stiffer cable according to Rose is actually the better cable. It is the "French Orchestral Cable" or some other fancy name.
> 
> The Chinese forums say that the braided cable is more suitable for Vocals while the French cable for Instrumentals.
> If you can, get rubber rings for the Mojito and use Monk+ thin foams over them. Perfect sound to my ears. Also reconmended by ClieoOS
> ...




Thanks for this. Rubber rings also come with the Monk+ Exp Pack, yes? Have you tried them with the Mojito and, if so, are they also a good fit?


----------



## audio123

tomasz2d said:


> Blox B200


 

 any link for blox earbuds i cant find a reseller


----------



## dearyon

audio123 said:


> any link for blox earbuds i cant find a reseller


 
 sadly, it is sold out already. And that Blox B200 doesn't mean to be a mass product anyway. It is specially made for Thailand customer.


----------



## Tomasz2D

audio123 said:


> any link for blox earbuds i cant find a reseller


 
 This post http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/6735#post_12732373


----------



## music4mhell

audionewbi3 said:


> audionewbi3 said:
> 
> 
> > FWIW, Rose Mojito utilizes TF10 2 Pin connectors with a male diameter of 0.75. The earbuds do not have a left or right. They are determined by how one plugs the cable into the bud. If you plug in the right cable on to blue side of Mojito, then blue will be right. On the original cable, the R and L markings should face outward to ensure correct polarity and avoid phase cancellation.
> ...


 
 I am using Full foam hiegi foams, i feel it's a bit bright for me without full foam.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

kinetic758 said:


> Thanks for this. Rubber rings also come with the Monk+ Exp Pack, yes? Have you tried them with the Mojito and, if so, are they also a good fit?


 
 Unfortunately, I've never bought any Monk+ expansion pack. The rubber rings, I got from the Taobao seller which I have given you the link. The foams are thin foams that came with the monk+


music4mhell said:


> I am using Full foam hiegi foams, i feel it's a bit bright for me without full foam.


 
 I guess I am a treble and detail head hahahaha.


----------



## klove4252

My RX-1 came in last Friday. I haven't put in that much listening yet. Maybe about an hour, but so far so good. The build quality and packaging is top notch. I am honestly surprised these aren't at least in the $100 price range. So far my observations are similar to Clio. I don't know if I would rate them higher than the Cygnus, but I love Shozy products so I might be a bit biased. I need more time with them and should be able to compare them more with earbuds like the Mojito, Cygnus, Asura 2, Ting, and Monk in the next few days.


----------



## mebaali

I'm a sucker for clarity and detail retrieval more so than anything else, not sure RX1 is known for that but still joined the hype train.
  
 Have placed the order from Aliexpress.


----------



## the diode

Is there any place other than AliExpress to buy the Mojito?


----------



## the diode

Is there any place other than AliExpress to buy the Mojito?


----------



## audio123

the diode said:


> Is there any place other than AliExpress to buy the Mojito?


 

 penon audio
  
 http://penonaudio.com/Rose-Technology-all-models/rose-technology-Hybrid-7-IEM-mojito-Earbuds


----------



## the diode

Thank you!!


----------



## kinetic758

music4mhell said:


> I am using Full foam hiegi foams, i feel it's a bit bright for me without full foam.


 
  
 Thanks.  Interested in hearing more of your impressions of the Mojito as you listen to them more.


----------



## fairx

And I thought the list is dead.. LONG LIVE THE LIST!!

Another one bite the hype!  for that price is silly not to order one.


----------



## golov17

Great sub-bass


----------



## kinetic758

fairx said:


> And I thought the list is dead.. LONG LIVE THE LIST!!
> 
> Another one bite the hype!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Was ready to buy from Penon, but I'm looking for something else to add to the order.  Figured if it's coming from that far away, might as well buy something else too 
  
 Suggestions on something small (ish) to add to the cart (less than $50 USD)?


----------



## fairx

kinetic758 said:


> Was ready to buy from Penon, but I'm looking for something else to add to the order.  Figured if it's coming from that far away, might as well buy something else too
> 
> Suggestions on something small (ish) to add to the cart (less than $50 USD)?



Umm.. maybe others could chip in suggestions? I'm not sure what to suggest either. I've been delaying my wishlist for nx1a portable amp like, a year already.. Well that's what I would buy if I'm not getting new earbud this month.

Shoot. I forgot to check impedance for auglamour. Lol how many ohm it is again...? Demm hype


----------



## mochill

Damn you golov


----------



## Tomasz2D

music4mhell said:


> I am using Full foam hiegi foams, i feel it's a bit bright for me without full foam.


 
 Interesting, interesting. If I remember correctly you are, like me,  "I like Zen 2 and not so much Tomahawk" person so I count on your opinion. Waiting for more news.


----------



## golov17

kinetic758 said:


> Was ready to buy from Penon, but I'm looking for something else to add to the order.  Figured if it's coming from that far away, might as well buy something else too
> 
> Suggestions on something small (ish) to add to the cart (less than $50 USD)?


maybe PowerBeats DIY? 
http://penonaudio.com/DIY-PHEB01-Earbuds?search=Earbuds


----------



## golov17

mochill said:


> Damn you golov


----------



## vapman

haiku said:


> You kidding? I HAVE!




Well then! Does the 150's bass hit as hard as 400's?


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Well then! Does the 150's bass hit as hard as 400's?


Yes!


----------



## kinetic758

golov17 said:


> maybe PowerBeats DIY?
> http://penonaudio.com/DIY-PHEB01-Earbuds?search=Earbuds


 
  
 Can you describe their a sound a bit?  I'm currently listening to the Ting and Cygnus (have the Mojito on the way).
  
 Would they be okay driven straight from a cell phone (Galaxy S6)?


----------



## golov17

kinetic758 said:


> Can you describe their a sound a bit?  I'm currently listening to the Ting and Cygnus (have the Mojito on the way).
> 
> Would they be okay driven straight from a cell phone (Galaxy S6)?


 younger brother Mojito, maybe?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kinetic758 said:


> Can you describe their a sound a bit?  I'm currently listening to the Ting and Cygnus (have the Mojito on the way).
> 
> Would they be okay driven straight from a cell phone (Galaxy S6)?


 
 Basically lots of detail and wide soundstage but very little bass


----------



## haiku

vapman said:


> Well then! Does the 150's bass hit as hard as 400's?


 

 Even harder, but the 400´s goes way deeper.
 What´s interesting, the 150 Ohm really pump up every note (which sounds cool), the 400 Ohm have a fluidity and analogue sound quality I don´t want to miss, but the most fun are still........my old Monks.


----------



## golov17

haiku said:


> but the most fun are still........my old Monks.  :tongue_smile:


red logo?


----------



## haiku

golov17 said:


> red logo?


 

 Hehe, no, the ones before the MP.


----------



## vapman

haiku said:


> Even harder, but the 400´s goes way deeper.
> What´s interesting, the 150 Ohm really pump up every note (which sounds cool), the 400 Ohm have a fluidity and analogue sound quality I don´t want to miss, but the most fun are still........my old Monks.  :tongue_smile:




Thanks for this!
Dang, sounds like both the 150 and 400 are worth owning...


----------



## haiku

vapman said:


> Thanks for this!
> Dang, sounds like both the 150 and 400 are worth owning...


 
  

 I would say so, yes.


----------



## Zani004

klove4252 said:


> My RX-1 came in last Friday. I haven't put in that much listening yet. Maybe about an hour, but so far so good. The build quality and packaging is top notch. I am honestly surprised these aren't at least in the $100 price range. So far my observations are similar to Clio. I don't know if I would rate them higher than the Cygnus, but I love Shozy products so I might be a bit biased. I need more time with them and should be able to compare them more with earbuds like the Mojito, Cygnus, Asura 2, Ting, and Monk in the next few days.


 
  
 How is their fit? For me the Monks are too big, the Tomahawks ok and the Cygnus perfect.


----------



## vapman

I found some places where you can get cygnus style shells. I want to put a monk in one.


----------



## golov17

the diode said:


> Is there any place other than AliExpress to buy the Mojito?


Taobao http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=43414853614&wp_m=hotsell_goods_-1&wp_pk=shop/index_902417543_&wp_app=weapp&from=inshop


----------



## rggz

vapman said:


> I found some places where you can get cygnus style shells. I want to put a monk in one.


 

 I have owned some pairs from ongongstore (aliexpress) and definitely won't work perfectly, the "yuin" shell has 14,5mm and the Monk driver has 15.4mm then you need to compensate the gap with something. Btw you should try with this 300Ohms driver some DIYers from Thai loves that for bass/warm sound I'm waiting for a pair atm in some weeks I can send a feedback.


----------



## klove4252

zani004 said:


> How is their fit? For me the Monks are too big, the Tomahawks ok and the Cygnus perfect.




The RX and the Cygnus are pretty close in size. The RX might be slightly smaller.


----------



## Zani004

klove4252 said:


> The RX and the Cygnus are pretty close in size. The RX might be slightly smaller.


 
  
 Thank you. Good news on the size, bad news for the wallet.


----------



## kinetic758

zani004 said:


> Thank you. Good news on the size, bad news for the wallet.




Hehe. When I drink too much whiskey I start buying earbuds. That's how I ended up buying the Mojito. I'm drinking whiskey now so I'll probably end up buying something on Penon.


----------



## Zani004

kinetic758 said:


> Hehe. When I drink too much whiskey I start buying earbuds. That's how I ended up buying the Mojito. I'm drinking whiskey now so I'll probably end up buying something on Penon.


 

 lol


----------



## kinetic758

tayyab pirzada said:


> Basically lots of detail and wide soundstage but very little bass




Hm. Perhaps not my cup of tea then. I'm not a basshead but I do like a little some bass presence. 

What the general consensus on Hisoundaudio?


----------



## golov17

kinetic758 said:


> Hehe. When I drink too much whiskey I start buying earbuds. That's how I ended up buying the Mojito. I'm drinking whiskey now so I'll probably end up buying something on Penon.


 In my case, still worse: I do not drink at all, and yet .. lol


----------



## vapman

rggz said:


> I have owned some pairs from ongongstore (aliexpress) and definitely won't work perfectly, the "yuin" shell has 14,5mm and the Monk driver has 15.4mm then you need to compensate the gap with something. Btw you should try with this 300Ohms driver some DIYers from Thai loves that for bass/warm sound I'm waiting for a pair atm in some weeks I can send a feedback.




Awesome, if you get it and like it definitely let us know, I'm always ready to buy an ultra bassy bud 




golov17 said:


> In my case, still worse: I do not drink at all, and yet .. lol




Yup, no alcohol for me either, happier spending my money on new buds always


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> Awesome, if you get it and like it definitely let us know, I'm always ready to buy an ultra bassy bud
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I just bought the RX1, so only a minimum amount of damage was done


----------



## ZerkMeister

The amazon link seems dead as it only points towards the iems now.
 I ordered through aliexpress, ordered both silver and black on impulse, I must resist....
 Stop, my wallet is crying :c but my brain is like you neeeeeed this!


----------



## vapman

very interesting, indeed if i click the item link from my orders page
  
 We must have confused Amazon pretty good on that one, not too often a random earbud out of nowhere shoots up to the #14 best seller position the day it's posted to the site, let alone before it's even showed up at the Amazon facilities?
  
 However nice to see how  my amazon order status for the Auglamour says "Arriving Thursday - Shipping today" so if I have them in 3 days i'd be extremely happy!


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> kinetic758 said:
> 
> 
> > Hehe. When I drink too much whiskey I start buying earbuds. That's how I ended up buying the Mojito. I'm drinking whiskey now so I'll probably end up buying something on Penon.
> ...


 
 Same here  I don't drink and smoke at all.


----------



## audio123

receiving the ty hiz later


----------



## music4mhell

Please some1 give some impressions of Seahf LD 4.0, Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!


----------



## vapman

I also hope someone comments on it before I go off and buy one to know if any difference at all.
  
 I got an email that my Auglamour RX-1 from Amazon just shipped and should be here tomorrow?!


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

So is there any well made truly high end earbud to rival the Mojito or the MX985? (I personally hated the MX985 btw)

I'm looking for anything that screams high end


----------



## luedriver

today I went to the shops and saw the tdk eb90 again and for 9aud I had to try it, even though no one else in the entire www except for one post on this thread, had anything to say about them,
  
I just tried them a bit and to me they sound a bit v shaped, compared to the monk I was listening previously, maybe this will change with some burn-in, and even though it has some bass it seems kinda hollow, although this was while walking back from the shops in a busy street with my iphone 6s, here at home they seem to have some detail/sparkle in the highs, but I am no audiophile so, I could be having some "new toy" syndrome, also they seem to be less loud than monk or mx170
  
the cable is really cheap and "sprongy" but I guess its expected, but they are a bit more cheaper quality than the mx170, a bit more rubbery, overall I don't hate them, I guess I kinda like them, 
  
edit, actually they don't have any bass, the mx170 have much more bass in comparison


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Is the Ting worth it...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tayyab pirzada said:


> So is there any well made truly high end earbud to rival the Mojito or the MX985? (I personally hated the MX985 btw)
> 
> I'm looking for anything that screams high end


 
  
  


tayyab pirzada said:


> Is the Ting worth it...


 
  
 Mate, just my 2 cents worth of advice, another high end earbud would be the Zen's (both normal and Cardas edition). However, if you like the sound signature of the Mojito's then their is nothing currently which can top them IMHO. So unless you want something similar to the Mojito's, the Zen's are another considerations. 
  
 FWIW, I think you pretty much have ended the earbud game (judging from your lineup) a short while after you started LOL!


----------



## music4mhell

audionewbi3 said:


> tayyab pirzada said:
> 
> 
> > So is there any well made truly high end earbud to rival the Mojito or the MX985? (I personally hated the MX985 btw)
> ...


 
 VE Nirvana 2017 Edition


----------



## mebaali

luedriver said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I just bought a TDK EB100 for 99 Indian rupee (roughly 1.5 US$) out of curiosity (and for sleeptime usage) from Ebay India (http://www.ebay.in/itm/TDK-EB100-Black-In-ear-Earbud-with-Bass-boost-Unboxed-/252368328042). Expecting similar (to EB90) if not worse sound from them.


----------



## haiku

audionewbi3 said:


> Mate, just my 2 cents worth of advice, another high end earbud would be the Zen's (both normal and Cardas edition). However, if you like the sound signature of the Mojito's then their is nothing currently which can top them IMHO. So unless you want something similar to the Mojito's, the Zen's are another considerations.
> 
> FWIW, I think you pretty much have ended the earbud game (judging from your lineup) a short while after you started LOL!


 

 I predict he will buy every earbud possible, and still he won´t be satisfied. Life´s a paradox. Learn to live with it (end of philosophical lesson).


----------



## Tomasz2D

tayyab pirzada said:


> So is there any well made truly high end earbud to rival the Mojito or the MX985? (I personally hated the MX985 btw)
> 
> I'm looking for anything that screams high end


 
 You can go for Yuin OK1 or UBIQUO UCOTECH (LINK) if you have resources, will and desire to explore this price level. I am not telling they can rival above mentioned but they are sort of rarity here and you could compare them with other flagships that you own for the common good of this community


----------



## jrazmar

I have long sold my OK1. Maybe it is underpowered because of the high impedance requirement but just based on memory, even the Original Monk is better overall so don't bother.


----------



## petan970

golov17 said:


> T-Music Professional DIY Earphone 3.5mm Hifi Noise Cancelling Bass In-Ear Headset With Package
> http://s.aliexpress.com/FFVr2u6R
> 
> 
> 16 available  go-go


 
  
 Ordered. My first earbuds.


----------



## kurtextrem

What made you guys buy the T-Music bud? Any impressions?


----------



## Tomasz2D

kurtextrem said:


> What made you guys buy the T-Music bud? Any impressions?


 
 For me it was like drawing lottery ticket - just for fun.


----------



## satansmutt

kurtextrem said:


> What made you guys buy the T-Music bud? Any impressions?


 
  
 golov17 made me do it, it's all his fault


----------



## audio123

ty hi z 150 ohms is amazing...


----------



## alizeofeniquito

I want to order T-music because the cable is the same with my hlsx 808 but the seller don't ship to Philippines. Please compare aug rx-1 and ty hi-z 32ohm.


----------



## kurtextrem

satansmutt said:


> golov17 made me do it, it's all his fault


 
 I'm still thinking Monk 5$ vs T-Music 10$ :/


----------



## petan970

satansmutt said:


> kurtextrem said:
> 
> 
> > What made you guys buy the T-Music bud? Any impressions?
> ...


 

  +1


----------



## audio123

alizeofeniquito said:


> I want to order T-music because the cable is the same with my hlsx 808 but the seller don't ship to Philippines. Please compare aug rx-1 and ty hi-z 32ohm.


 

 my rx1 i just ordered wait 8 days


----------



## alizeofeniquito

audio123 said:


> my rx1 i just ordered wait 8 days


 
 Ok,thanks. I hope i can wait.


----------



## audio123

alizeofeniquito said:


> Ok,thanks. I hope i can wait.


 

 the ty hi z hp 32 is like ve monk imo.
 150 ohm is what seals the deal for me + red donut


----------



## satansmutt

audio123 said:


> the ty hi z hp 32 is like ve monk imo.
> 150 ohm is what seals the deal for me + red donut


 
  
 +1
 TY Hi-Z 32 very similar to monks
 TY Hi-Z 150 with donut is on another level, makes me curious about the TY Hi-Z 400s


----------



## music4mhell

satansmutt said:


> audio123 said:
> 
> 
> > the ty hi z hp 32 is like ve monk imo.
> ...


 
 But the ranking for TY Hi-Z 400s is far far low


----------



## alizeofeniquito

audio123 said:


> the ty hi z hp 32 is like ve monk imo.
> 150 ohm is what seals the deal for me + red donut




 I only have monk plus. I want a low impedance and warm signature earbud for my smartphone.


----------



## golov17

satansmutt said:


> golov17 made me do it, it's all his fault


 Well .. it is already a good thing I did not force you to buy it, lol  
 High quality of sound in the absence of the low-mids, contradictory ..


----------



## haiku

music4mhell said:


> But the ranking for TY Hi-Z 400s is far far low


 

 I don´t know those earbuds, but I for one make my own judgements. I think it´s not advisable to make a purchase by relying on the opinion of only one person. Just my 2 Cents.....


----------



## kurtextrem

music4mhell said:


> But the ranking for TY Hi-Z 400s is far far low


 
 Seahf LD-4.0 is still in the race though (bcz unrated)
 ... but I still don't know what exactly the differences between Hi-Z and Seahf 400 Ohm is...


----------



## music4mhell

kurtextrem said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > But the ranking for TY Hi-Z 400s is far far low
> ...


 
 I am also very much interested to hear some impression on SEAHF LD 4.0.


----------



## Sempenyi

any recommendation for best in the world direct drive earbuds ?

 Mojito ? BE7 ? B200 ? mx985 ? Cygnus ? AuGlamour RX1 ?

 My Source is only ASUS A43SD (just low end notebook) and my smartphone.


----------



## music4mhell

sempenyi said:


> any recommendation for best in the world direct drive earbuds ?
> 
> Mojito ? BE7 ? B200 ? mx985 ? Cygnus ? AuGlamour RX1 ?
> 
> My Source is only ASUS A43SD (just low end notebook) and my smartphone.


 
 Buy a Monk+ and spend rest amount on an external DAC, you will enjoy more


----------



## audio123

The packaging of ty hiz is classy tho very slick


----------



## golov17

sempenyi said:


> any recommendation for best in the world direct drive earbuds ?
> 
> 
> Mojito ? BE7 ? B200 ? mx985 ? Cygnus ? AuGlamour RX1 ?
> ...


 This provocative question, lol  
 It depends on many subjective factors: your preferences, favorite genres of music, the ear size, hearing, age, etc..


----------



## Sempenyi

music4mhell said:


> Buy a Monk+ and spend rest amount on an external DAC, you will enjoy more


 
  
 sold my monk+. good scaling with high end source but i don't have them anymore.
  


golov17 said:


> This provocative question, lol
> It depends on many subjective factors: your preferences, favorite genres of music, the ear size, hearing, age, etc..


 

 preference : i am currently using elibuds sabia and i love them (a bit slightly more bass maybe good).
 no fave genre just random listening @spotify.
 monk+ housing is okay but sometimes it hurts for long listening. (i'd prefer smaller)
 iam 22 years old and healthy :v


----------



## golov17

sempenyi said:


> sold my monk+. good scaling with high end source but i don't have them anymore (just sold my ak100 and mojo)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Auglamour on the way to me, and I do not know how it sounds. From what you have listed, I would choose Blox b200


----------



## Sempenyi

golov17 said:


> Auglamour on the way to me, and I do not know how it sounds. From what you have listed, I would choose Blox b200


 
 any recommendation beyond what i have listed ?


----------



## golov17

sempenyi said:


> any recommendation beyond what i have listed ?


Blox be5, Ty Hi-Z 32, Qian25, Boarseman mx98s


----------



## Joy Boy

sempenyi said:


> any recommendation for best in the world direct drive earbuds ?
> 
> 
> Mojito ? BE7 ? B200 ? mx985 ? Cygnus ? AuGlamour RX1 ?
> ...



So many variable. Your fav.genre, prefference sound,etc.
But if it's just a random question, my answer is blox Be7. Love it more tham cygnus, tomahawk, even mx985.
Tried it with your own ears, everybody have their own Top-bud. So are you


----------



## audio123

joy boy said:


> So many variable. Your fav.genre, prefference sound,etc.
> But if it's just a random question, my answer is blox Be7. Love it more tham cygnus, tomahawk, even mx985.
> Tried it with your own ears, everybody have their own Top-bud. So are you


 

 i want to get blox but cant find any seller


----------



## vapman

If you read the thread you'd know why you won't be getting any anytime soon, either.


----------



## audio123

vapman said:


> If you read the thread you'd know why you won't be getting any anytime soon, either.


 

 unless i can go thailand i supposeddd


----------



## chompy

Really nice those KC08T... Please when you have time please tell us you would it compare with current forum favorites (and please compare its bass with Edifier H180 and its highs with Edifier H185 to have my own reference)... Thanks
  
 Quote:


golov17 said:


> Well .. it is already a good thing I did not force you to buy it, lol
> High quality of sound in the absence of the low-mids, contradictory ..


----------



## audio123

kc08 is lacking in mids imo hope the kc08t is better


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I really think im done now I guess. Now time to research amps...


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> I really think im done now I guess. Now time to research amps...


 

 Well you have two VERY fine portable amps on the way, maybe you need to look into desktop amps too?
 I also highly recommend DAC upgrades


----------



## leobigfield

audio123 said:


> The packaging of ty hiz is classy tho very slick


 
 How the Ti-Hi-Z 150 Ohm compare with the original monk?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> Well you have two VERY fine portable amps on the way, maybe you need to look into desktop amps too?
> I also highly recommend DAC upgrades




Suggest some desktop amps that are actually worth it?

And not sure about DAC's...I just use my AK JR. Dont really use my phone or laptop much.


----------



## audio123

leobigfield said:


> How the Ti-Hi-Z 150 Ohm compare with the original monk?


 

 wider soundstage and slightly better details


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> Suggest some desktop amps that are actually worth it?
> 
> And not sure about DAC's...I just use my AK JR. Dont really use my phone or laptop much.


 

 Yeah your DAP has a Wolfson DAC so that's not bad at all. If you ever start using the computer to play stuff a USB DAC is a great investment.
  
 There's tons of good desktop amps out there but I think, since you will be mainly using earbuds (I make the same recommendation to IEM users looking for desktop amps) either look for one that has selectable low/high gain OR selectable output resistances, so you can limit the amount of power going to the output in a variety of ways. Garage1217 incorporates these features on all their amps and generally make stuff hitting WAY above their price point. Great CS too.


----------



## leobigfield

vapman said:


> Yeah your DAP has a Wolfson DAC so that's not bad at all. If you ever start using the computer to play stuff a USB DAC is a great investment.
> 
> There's tons of good desktop amps out there but I think, since you will be mainly using earbuds (I make the same recommendation to IEM users looking for desktop amps) either look for one that has selectable low/high gain OR selectable output resistances, so you can limit the amount of power going to the output in a variety of ways. Garage1217 incorporates these features on all their amps and generally make stuff hitting WAY above their price point. Great CS too.


 
  
 There is also the new Schiit Modi Multibit DAC. Seems a very nice DAC for the price, no impressions so far but worth waiting a little to know more.


----------



## haiku

tayyab pirzada said:


> Suggest some desktop amps that are actually worth it?
> 
> And not sure about DAC's...I just use my AK JR. Dont really use my phone or laptop much.


 

 Dig this
  
 http://de.aliexpress.com/store/product/Venture-Electronics-Transistor-Amplifier/1924356_32417375390.html


----------



## springbay

A big shout out to @golov17 for posting his pictures, making me pull the trigger and ordering the Boarseman MX98s a couple of weeks ago.
 I didn't think I would need them, but I could not resist the nice wooden box and accessories.
 They arrived today and I absolutely adore them with full foams straight from the iPhone. For me they fill the gap from Monk/Monk+ to Cygnus/Ting that the Tomahawks couldn't.
 Naked they are overly bright though. They need full foams.
  
 I ordered the Boarseman K25s and the QianYun Qian 25 in the same shipment. They sound quite ok for the price point, but are kind of redundant if one already have the Monk/Monk+


----------



## rggz

Nice! I just ordered AG RX-1 and Boarseman MX98s now and waiting for some DIY drivers.
  
@springbay how does it sounded compared to Cygnus? the highs area is a bit less veiled than Monk 1?


----------



## fairx

springbay said:


> A big shout out to @golov17 for posting his pictures, making me pull the trigger and ordering the Boarseman MX98s a couple of weeks ago.
> I didn't think I would need them, but I could not resist the nice wooden box and accessories.
> They arrived today and I absolutely adore them with full foams straight from the iPhone. For me they fill the gap from Monk/Monk+ to Cygnus/Ting that the Tomahawks couldn't.
> Naked they are overly bright though. They need full foams.
> ...



Can't wait for your full impression!!


----------



## kinetic758

Monk+ with Exp Pack came in. Mojito is still stuck in Los Angeles customs. Boo.


----------



## Tomasz2D

bloodypenguin said:


> I've contacted numerous earbud companies, looking for one of them to produce a removable cable.  I have yet to find one that thinks it is an idea worthy of production.


 
 Replying to old post but this:


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Monk+ with expansion pack came in.

And this (loving the bass boost; sounds very smooth overall)


----------



## golov17

This is a good upgrade from the H185, sub-bass is very good, high freq also, high mids good, low mids a little worse, and it sounds better with stock foams and dark sources. IMHO


When I listened kc08t, they remind me sounds in mix Zen1.0 & Blox be7mk1


----------



## Sempenyi

joy boy said:


> So many variable. Your fav.genre, prefference sound,etc.
> But if it's just a random question, my answer is blox Be7. Love it more tham cygnus, tomahawk, even mx985.
> Tried it with your own ears, everybody have their own Top-bud. So are you


 
  
 be7 seems impossible to find


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

golov17 said:


> This is a good upgrade from the H185, sub-bass is very good, high freq also, high mids good, low mids a little worse, and it sounds better with stock foams and dark sources. IMHO
> 
> 
> When I listened kc08t, they remind me sounds in mix Zen1.0 & Blox be7mk1


 
 KC08T are really good


----------



## golov17

Zen1.0 320 Ohm
Blox be7 22 Ohm
Ostry kc08t 40 Ohm
(technically champions)


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> This is a good upgrade from the H185, sub-bass is very good, high freq also, high mids good, low mids a little worse, and it sounds better with stock foams and dark sources. IMHO
> 
> 
> When I listened kc08t, they remind me sounds in mix Zen1.0 & Blox be7mk1


 

 KC08t worth buying then? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 For some reason I thought KC08t had weak bass... if it has good sub bass i am happy to buy it.
  
 Still haven't bought TY Hi-Z 150....


----------



## dearyon

golov17 said:


> Zen1.0 320 Ohm
> Blox be7 22 Ohm
> Ostry kc08t 40 Ohm
> (technically champions)


 
 what did KC08T take from Zen 1 and Blox BE7?
 Zen 1 > KC08T take its bass? and in BE7, KC08T take its clarity or?


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, my RX1 should arrive on Thursday, so I got lucky with the shipment coming in earlier than I thought.  Here's hoping they're legit and not just taking advantage of the new posting.
  
 Also, just got the Shozy Cygnus today I bought from @vapman 2 months ago, thank you post office for that mess...   From initial listening, details are solid, bass is good for softer music like Beck's Sea Change album, vocals are great which is pretty much what I was hoping for from other's opinions.  Comfort is top end too, maybe a hair less than the Mojito, maybe a hair more...  I'd have to compare the two.  I feel like I should buy a Musicmaker earbud next as I have never tried theirs, and I'm always on the lookout to try a Blox as I've never had the luck to buy one, too.  I wonder which Musicmaker I should try out to join the collection.


----------



## vapman

My RX1 are supposed to be here Thursday too 
  
 The Cygnus shell is so dang comfy. Easily one of the best earbuds to wear.
  
 I don't remember how the Tomahawk felt when I had it but I don't remember it being anything noteworthy in terms of fit comfort.
  
 I'm still regretting not buying a high end Blox when they were on sale back in 2012.... I remember seeing them and being like "yeah right I'd never spend that much on an earbud..."


----------



## mochill

tayyab pirzada said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > Well you have two VERY fine portable amps on the way, maybe you need to look into desktop amps too?
> ...


Venture Electronics RA 2.0


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> KC08t worth buying then?
> 
> For some reason I thought KC08t had weak bass... if it has good sub bass i am happy to buy it.
> 
> Still haven't bought TY Hi-Z 150....


 kc08t 16 mm, so if you can get a good fit with them, the sub bass is very good


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Guys, when you are talking about the Ty Hi-z 400 Ohms, which version are you mentioning? The new or old version?


----------



## golov17

dearyon said:


> what did KC08T take from Zen 1 and Blox BE7?
> 
> Zen 1 > KC08T take its bass? and in BE7, KC08T take its clarity or?


 about .. they have something in common in the signature


----------



## tintheman

Hi Golov, what would be your top 5 earbuds?


----------



## Sempenyi

golov17 said:


> about .. they have something in common in the signature


 
 what is the difference between KC08T and KC08 ?


----------



## kinetic758

saoshyant said:


> Well, my RX1 should arrive on Thursday, so I got lucky with the shipment coming in earlier than I thought.  Here's hoping they're legit and not just taking advantage of the new posting.
> 
> Also, just got the Shozy Cygnus today I bought from @vapman
> 2 months ago, thank you post office for that mess...   From initial listening, details are solid, bass is good for softer music like Beck's Sea Change album, vocals are great which is pretty much what I was hoping for from other's opinions.  Comfort is top end too, maybe a hair less than the Mojito, maybe a hair more...  I'd have to compare the two.  I feel like I should buy a Musicmaker earbud next as I have never tried theirs, and I'm always on the lookout to try a Blox as I've never had the luck to buy one, too.  I wonder which Musicmaker I should try out to join the collection.




I've been enjoying my Ting. I got that and the Cygnus at the same time and while the Cygnus had that initial wow factor, I find the more subtle Ting to be a nice contrast. I've never heard the Tomahawk, but from what I've read the Cygnus is better in most regards to it.


----------



## dearyon

golov17 said:


> about .. they have something in common in the signature


 
 Interesting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


tintheman said:


> Hi Golov, what would be your top 5 earbuds?


 
 I'd like to ask the same question

 Just guessing, sir Golov favorite buds is Zen 2?


----------



## golov17

sempenyi said:


> what is the difference between KC08T and KC08 ?


ClieOS must know it... but I think that maybe kc08t fresher?


----------



## golov17

dearyon said:


> Interesting
> 
> I'd like to ask the same question
> 
> ...


 all my kids, love for all


----------



## golov17

I get pleasure from all, once I spent half a year with Blox be7 for $100, and the next half-year with Suvov s30 for $5, and no problems


----------



## tintheman

Hi Golov, how about the top 5 most overrated earbuds to you?


----------



## tintheman

One more thing for every senior earbud members here, for IEM,  tip rolling will help certain phones... What would be the best improvement I could do to improve the buds? I bought the JVC spiral tips and it help my pinnacle P1 to my ear...


----------



## dearyon

golov17 said:


> all my kids, love for all


 
 much respect from me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


tintheman said:


> One more thing for every senior earbud members here, for IEM,  tip rolling will help certain phones... What would be the best improvement I could do to improve the buds? I bought the JVC spiral tips and it help my pinnacle P1 to my ear...


 
 this is not an IEM thread


----------



## tintheman

I was asking for the improvement on the buds...not IEM???


----------



## golov17

tintheman said:


> I was asking for the improvement on the buds...not IEM???


Hiegi foams, rubber rings, Monk Plus foams


----------



## tintheman

golov17 said:


> Hiegi foams, rubber rings, Monk Plus foams


 
 Thanks...just never try the Hiegi foams, will buy to try.


----------



## Joy Boy

sempenyi said:


> be7 seems impossible to find



Yeah it's so damn hard to find. They made so limited product. The new one, b200 even not for international buyer



golov17 said:


> Zen1.0 320 Ohm
> Blox be7 22 Ohm
> Ostry kc08t 40 Ohm
> (technically champions)



Be7 mark 2?
Guess we have quite same champions here. For me the best is zen 1, should be amped. The best direct drive is be7. Still waiting for mid-centric champion.


----------



## music4mhell

tayyab pirzada said:


> I really think im done now I guess. Now time to research amps...


 
 Try Chord Mojo once with your earbuds and you will be amazed.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

music4mhell said:


> Try Chord Mojo once with your earbuds and you will be amazed.


 
 AK Jr doesnt have optical out so it wont work with Mojo I think


----------



## music4mhell

tayyab pirzada said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Try Chord Mojo once with your earbuds and you will be amazed.
> ...


 
 Check the Mojo Specs,
 It has Optical IN, CO axial IN, Micro USB IN.
 I use it with my TV optical out at home and at office Oneplus one Micro usb out


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

music4mhell said:


> Check the Mojo Specs,
> It has Optical IN, CO axial IN, Micro USB IN.
> I use it with my TV optical out at home and at office Oneplus one Micro usb out


 
 AK Jr only has analog line out. Would it work with Mojo?


----------



## music4mhell

tayyab pirzada said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Check the Mojo Specs,
> ...


 
 Mojo can take only DIgital input, so only DIgital audio can enter into Mojo, No analog Sorry!


----------



## golov17

joy boy said:


> Yeah it's so damn hard to find. They made so limited product. The new one, b200 even not for international buyer
> Be7 mark 2?
> Guess we have quite same champions here. For me the best is zen 1, should be amped. The best direct drive is be7. Still waiting for mid-centric champion.


try AKG K319 for mids


----------



## ld100

music4mhell said:


> Try Chord Mojo once with your earbuds and you will be amazed.


 
  
 Any less pricey alternatives?


----------



## haiku

Some more impressions from Seahf LD-3.0 150 Ohm vs LD-4.0 400 Ohm
  
 The 150 Ohm are not very polite. They throw the music directly in your face, they sound like being on a live concert, where the sound blast at full volume. Powerfull bass, but no as deep as on the 400 Ohm. Like I wrote once before, it´s your music on steroids. I think they´re a stunner, but for some it might be a bit too much.
 The 400 Ohm have a very smooth and laid back sound. Imagine the best turntable set up you know, that´s what they sound like. The bass goes really deep, and they have a wide soundstage. They´re way more balanced than the 150 Ohm, but lack the power and attack of the latter. All imo, of course.
  
 Today, I´ll get the LD-3.0 320 Ohm + 400 Ohm.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

ld100 said:


> Any less pricey alternatives?


 
 Cayin C5


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

haiku said:


> Some more impressions from Seahf LD-3.0 150 Ohm vs LD-4.0 400 Ohm
> 
> The 150 Ohm are not very polite. They throw the music directly in your face, they sound like being on a live concert, where the sound blast at full volume. Powerfull bass, but no as deep as on the 400 Ohm. Like I wrote once before, it´s your music on steroids. I think they´re a stunner, but for some it might be a bit too much.
> The 400 Ohm have a very smooth and laid back sound. Imagine the best turntable set up you know, that´s what they sound like. The bass goes really deep, and they have a wide soundstage. They´re way more balanced than the 150 Ohm, but lack the power and attack of the latter. All imo, of course.
> ...


 
 Is the 400 Ohm 4.0 worth it for the bass extension? I feel Ostry KC08t already has that covered.


----------



## springbay

rggz said:


> Nice! I just ordered AG RX-1 and Boarseman MX98s now and waiting for some DIY drivers.
> 
> @springbay how does it sounded compared to Cygnus? the highs area is a bit less veiled than Monk 1?


 

 The Boarseman MX98s are very relaxed, a bit darkish and slightly warm. Works well with any genre and where the clarity of the Cygnus and Ting sometimes can get a bit fatiguing on some energetic pop tracks, the MX98s are like butter to my ears. A great bud to use when coming home after a long tiresome day at work, and you just want to take a sip of your poison of choice, listen to some music and take it easy.
 I mainly used them on my Iphone last evening, but at the end of the night I plugged them into the VE RA2.0, and they simply exploded with detail but still remained pleasantly warm and very relaxed.


----------



## chompy

Thanks @golov17 and @Tayyab Pirzada for your impressions about KC08T it seems it would be the perfect bud for my tastes. What only worries me now is its size... I don't have problem with Yuin, Edifier or Tomahawk, but Monks hurt me after some time wearing them.


----------



## vapman

springbay said:


> The Boarseman MX98s are very relaxed, a bit darkish and slightly warm. Works well with any genre and where the clarity of the Cygnus and Ting sometimes can get a bit fatiguing on some energetic pop tracks, the MX98s are like butter to my ears. A great bud to use when coming home after a long tiresome day at work, and you just want to take a sip of your poison of choice, listen to some music and take it easy.
> I mainly used them on my Iphone last evening, but at the end of the night I plugged them into the VE RA2.0, and they simply exploded with detail but still remained pleasantly warm and very relaxed.


 

 Are they warmer than the Zen to you?


----------



## Tomasz2D

sempenyi said:


> what is the difference between KC08T and KC08 ?


 
 This is from Massdrop:
 "The sound is clear and natural, and further refined in the KC08’s successor, the KC08T. Featuring the same driver structure and accessories, this upgraded model has a slightly higher impedance and a shinier look to its metallic finish."


----------



## springbay

vapman said:


> Are they warmer than the Zen to you?


 

 With the phone as source, yes. The warm sound of the MX98s is probably due to the included full foams that I use (naked, they are very bright). I'll have to try them some more with the RA2 to make a comparison. I'd never use the Zen2 straight from the phone. But that is also where the MX98s fill a gap in my collection. I want some buds that I can plug straight into the phone, without the need of bringing an amp with me. But that's for now, like everyone else I have the RX-1 incoming.


----------



## vapman

I'll have to wait and see how you like them vs. the rx1 then! 
  
 interested in it for pretty much the same reasons as you.


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> Some more impressions from Seahf LD-3.0 150 Ohm vs LD-4.0 400 Ohm
> 
> The 150 Ohm are not very polite. They throw the music directly in your face, they sound like being on a live concert, where the sound blast at full volume. Powerfull bass, but no as deep as on the 400 Ohm. Like I wrote once before, it´s your music on steroids. I think they´re a stunner, but for some it might be a bit too much.
> The 400 Ohm have a very smooth and laid back sound. Imagine the best turntable set up you know, that´s what they sound like. The bass goes really deep, and they have a wide soundstage. They´re way more balanced than the 150 Ohm, but lack the power and attack of the latter. All imo, of course.
> ...


 
 Could you just tell how is the soundstage of LD 4.0 ?


----------



## badmod

Does Zen 1 cable change color?


----------



## golov17

badmod said:


> Does Zen 1 cable change color?


Yes, over time, if you live in a region with high humidity, it is green, as Cygnus


----------



## haiku

First impression Seahf LD-3.0 320 Ohm
  
 If you´re a basshead and you´re thinking about buying Seahf earbuds, these are the ones to get. Incredible dark, punchy and powerful bass, Whoa, What!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Also awesome is the detail retrieval.  I already heard so many things I haven´t heard from my other earbuds. Great highs too, very airy.
 When you listen with these, you just want to turn the volume up and up and up......


----------



## luedriver

someone is selling the original ve zen on ebay starting bid at $199
  
 just thought someone might want to know if they are interested (and the earbuds actually real)
  
 also see a few ads for original monk from time to time on ebay prices usually around $30 aud and more


----------



## golov17

Well, also.. Fareal 64, with dark sig with Hiegi with hole,or without foams, my preferences than bright 32 with full foams


----------



## wietrg

I also bought my Mrice e100 from AE and love it very much.


----------



## dearyon

haiku said:


> First impression Seahf LD-3.0 320 Ohm
> 
> If you´re a basshead and you´re thinking about buying Seahf earbuds, these are the ones to get. Incredible dark, punchy and powerful bass, Whoa, What!
> 
> ...


 
 nice! more punchy than the 150 Ohm one? How about their vocal?


----------



## Sp12er3

With the price it goes at, I don't think the Fareal​ is comparable with VE Monk+ IMO, its too narrow with grainy and a bit rough sound to it. Well, I did get it cheap with tons of accessories (11 pair of foam+ pouch+ tin case) for $13, so I wont complaint... the cable is nice though... plan on putting it on my VE Monk for I use it more...


golov17 said:


> Well, also.. Fareal 64, with dark sig with Hiegi with hole,or without foams, my preferences than bright 32 with full foams


----------



## vapman

I got a nice looking cable from Lunashops with a mic/3 button remote built into that, i was thinking to recable one Monk with it.
  
 edit: ARGH! I was supposed to get the Auglamour today, but somehow UPS took the package from the sorting center a few miles from my house in Boston and brought it all the way out to California. Now it's just landed in Pennsylvania... ugh. And for some reason USPS is 3 days with no mail now? Apparently every mail service has completely fallen apart this July...


----------



## kinetic758

I just had a 30min listen to the Monk+. I'm a little underwhelmed... not sure if it's because I was listening to the Ting before it or maybe I was expecting more given the hype? Definitely not terrible given the price.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kinetic758 said:


> I just had a 30min listen to the Monk+. I'm a little underwhelmed... not sure if it's because I was listening to the Ting before it or maybe I was expecting more given the hype? Definitely not terrible given the price.


 
 its a $5 bud bro. fo $5 the ti hy z  32 ohm r better imo.


----------



## alizeofeniquito

My brother's recabled monk plus using spc wire from a vga cable lolz.


----------



## golov17

sp12er3 said:


> With the price it goes at, I don't think the Fareal​ is comparable with VE Monk+ IMO, its too narrow with grainy and a bit rough sound to it. Well, I did get it cheap with tons of accessories (11 pair of foam+ pouch+ tin case) for $13, so I wont complaint... the cable is nice though... plan on putting it on my VE Monk for I use it more...


 Well, I got them for $ 8.77, so ..


----------



## haiku

kinetic758 said:


> I just had a 30min listen to the Monk+. I'm a little underwhelmed... not sure if it's because I was listening to the Ting before it or maybe I was expecting more given the hype? Definitely not terrible given the price.


 

 I think the MP are highly overrated. I like the old Monks.


----------



## mebaali

Got TDK EB100 from ebay last evening. 
  
 Absolute crap! FM radioisque sounding buds plus one of the driver (right) sounding lower volume than the other as well.


----------



## vapman

haiku said:


> I think the MP are highly overrated. I like the old Monks.


 

 I disagree but like both. i find both to have an extremely natural sound... arguably MP is more natural to me. it also sounds much closer to Asura 2.0 than the original Monk did.
 dont get me wrong, i still love the heck out of my original Monks 
 but I use the MP's more - half because the original Monk are no longer attainable and I'd feel less bad about breaking a MP by accident, half because I like them slightly more.
  
  


mebaali said:


> Got TDK EB100 from ebay last evening.
> 
> Absolute crap! FM radioisque sounding buds plus one of the driver (right) sounding lower volume than the other as well.


 
  
 Oh no! that is too bad 
 sometimes I feel the Monk spoiled us too much with what to expect from these ultra budget earbuds 
  
 RX-1 better show up tomorrow........ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I swear UPS send it out west just because it was about to show up day after shipping, and we couldn't have that on a 2 day air package, could we?


----------



## mebaali

vapman said:


> Oh no! that is too bad
> sometimes I feel the Monk spoiled us too much with what to expect from these ultra budget earbuds
> 
> RX-1 better show up tomorrow........
> ...


 
 LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You are right.
  
 Some of the under 10 US$ buds (Philips SHE 3800 = 3.21 US$, Monk = 8 US$, and TY-Hi Z 32 = 8 US$) and IEMs (KZ R1 = 2 US$, Panasonic RPHJE125 = 4 US$) that I have seriously skewed my perception of such el-cheapos (i mean how come these manufacturers are able to provide such good sound quality for dirt cheap prices).
  
 My RX1 is still not shipped (shows just electronic information received message), though


----------



## luedriver

mebaali said:


> Got TDK EB100 from ebay last evening.
> 
> Absolute crap! FM radioisque sounding buds plus one of the driver (right) sounding lower volume than the other as well.


 
  
 sorry to hear that, just now after burning them overnight I tried to measure the eb90's (very poorly with downloaded sine waves and my iphone's mic) and found out just what I expected a bit more highs than mids and a very feint kind of v or u shape sound sig, if they were more properly tested I guess more would be revealed, but I chose these because of my simple reaktek eq settings and just for "fun" more than anything

  
 a very basic idea of what it sounds like, on the top (the numbers in the third column) I tried to eq to the average and it sounded a bit more darker however the highs were basically at the same decibel level, even though I lowered the 4k to -10 out of 12


----------



## Arvan

Auglamour RX1 or Tomahawk? 
  
 I want something with great clarity and soundstage. For reference i find the monks way to hot in the mid bass and kinda murky sounding overall. Any suggestions here people? 
  
 I have only "read" ( as in google translate ) a Japanese first impression blog on the RX1. Seems like they have more focus on the clarity and balance. Can anyone shed some light on this? Is there anything else i should consider? I´m not spending that much money on the buds


----------



## luedriver

vapman said:


> Oh no! that is too bad
> sometimes I feel the Monk spoiled us too much with what to expect from these ultra budget earbuds


 
  


mebaali said:


> LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 it depends on what the company or people want to sell and what they expect, monk is a "trap earbuds" that even wild lee had said many times, meaning he expects people to buy them and be wowed at the price, which could only be the cost of materials plus something extra, where as companies like tdk or even bigger names like sennheiser don't rely on their base models for advertisement, then you have the rest of the diy world that try to make themselves know by making something better than what they charge for and wait to get know by word of mouth (or word of blog/posts)
  
  
 in short, those who have something to gain will sell something good cheaper whereas some who already have nothing to lose are less motivated, maybe that is why I took a "risk" on $9 tdk earbuds


----------



## haiku

tayyab pirzada said:


> Is the 400 Ohm 4.0 worth it for the bass extension? I feel Ostry KC08t already has that covered.


 

 I would get the LD-3.0 320 Ohm instead. I only listened for about 10 hours, but so far they have the best bass performance. Rock solid, growling and powerful. But take it with a grain of salt, because I haven´t heard as many earbud as you have.


----------



## haiku

music4mhell said:


> Could you just tell how is the soundstage of LD 4.0 ?


 

 It has the widest soundstage of all Seahf earbuds I´ve heard so far. The LD-3.0 320 Ohm have a deeper soundstage though. Gives the music more of 3D sound effect.


----------



## haiku

dearyon said:


> nice! more punchy than the 150 Ohm one? How about their vocal?


 

 Waaaay more punchy! The vocals sound very intimate, with great timbre. Most emotional of all Seahf´s I know so far. I guess, all it´s characteristics is the reason why some compare it to the VE Zen 1.0 .


----------



## haiku

I´m really curious, if the bass of the 320 Ohm can be beaten by the LD-3.0 400 Ohm I also have here since yesterday, but hopefully the 320 Ohm V1+2 will arrive today, so I can compare them, too.
 (And very soon I´ll get the brand new Seahf IEM, but that just as a side note....)


----------



## music4mhell

Now i have to order Seahf 300 and LD 4.0
  
 I already have Seahf 400.


----------



## jrazmar

music4mhell said:


> Now i have to order Seahf 300 and LD 4.0
> 
> I already have Seahf 400.


 
  
 how's your Mojito so far? how is it compared to Zen 2.0 and Cygnus? Which is your favorite of the 3?


----------



## vapman

arvan said:


> Auglamour RX1 or Tomahawk?
> 
> I want something with great clarity and soundstage. For reference i find the monks way to hot in the mid bass and kinda murky sounding overall. Any suggestions here people?
> 
> I have only "read" ( as in google translate ) a Japanese first impression blog on the RX1. Seems like they have more focus on the clarity and balance. Can anyone shed some light on this? Is there anything else i should consider? I´m not spending that much money on the buds


 
 I think the majority of us are still waiting in the mail for our RX-1's.... but the Tomahawk is known far brighter than the monks.


----------



## music4mhell

jrazmar said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Now i have to order Seahf 300 and LD 4.0
> ...


 
 To be frank, 200% frank, i am just listening to Mojito only, i ahven't touched any other earbud.
 It has those highs which i have never heard in my life, and it has good bass also.
 Awesome soundstage and 3D effect.
 And now i am listening to music more and more because of this Mojito.
 I am not able to go back to any other earbud till now. Give me some more time, may be i have been hypnotized by Mojito till now


----------



## jrazmar

I'll probably start selling my earbuds and buy the Mojito. Are those highs you mentioned not sibilant even a little? I'm sensitive to treble or like the zing and ting in music. Is this not the case for the Mojito?


----------



## music4mhell

jrazmar said:


> I'll probably start selling my earbuds and buy the Mojito. Are those highs you mentioned not sibilant even a little? I'm sensitive to treble or like the zing and ting in music. Is this not the case for the Mojito?


 
 No No, i enjoy the highs, but yes others are using thin foams, but i use Hiegi Foams, which gives more bass and less Highs.
 So you can tweak with your foams, not a big deal.
 Laso there are 2 cables, one gives more highs than the others.


----------



## golov17

OMG, Ostry kc08t awesome with modern blues ballads music! Shocked


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> OMG, Ostry kc08t awesome with modern blues ballads music! Shocked


 
 How is the MIDS of KC08T  compare to Zen/Cygnus ?


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> How is the MIDS of KC08T  compare to Zen/Cygnus ?


 If your DAP or DAC has bodily mids, ie, not thin, it is not bad synergy


----------



## golov17

For example kc08t I not choose Shanling m2, but with Nationite Nanite n2 is extremely synergistic


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> For example kc08t I not choose Shanling m2, but with Nationite Nanite n2 is extremely synergistic


 
 So in short, KC08T is choosy, so it might be HIT or MISS.
 I think you have MOJO, can you share your impression ?


----------



## Saoshyant

Always wanted to try the Nanite N2, such a small player, never tracked one down however


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

music4mhell said:


> To be frank, 200% frank, i am just listening to Mojito only, i ahven't touched any other earbud.
> It has those highs which i have never heard in my life, and it has good bass also.
> Awesome soundstage and 3D effect.
> And now i am listening to music more and more because of this Mojito.
> I am not able to go back to any other earbud till now. Give me some more time, may be i have been hypnotized by Mojito till now




Same! In love with Mojito


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> So in short, KC08T is choosy, so it might be HIT or MISS.
> I think you have MOJO, can you share your impression ?


 Nope, sorry


----------



## kinetic758

music4mhell said:


> No No, i enjoy the highs, but yes others are using thin foams, but i use Hiegi Foams, which gives more bass and less Highs.
> So you can tweak with your foams, not a big deal.
> Laso there are 2 cables, one gives more highs than the others.




Do you find the sound is more balanced with the thicker Heigi foams? Deciding on which foam to try first when I receive my Mojito (the thinner Monk+ foams or the Hiegi).


----------



## haiku

tayyab pirzada said:


> Same! In love with Mojito


 

 I´m in love with my Seahf "Harem".


----------



## golov17

haiku said:


> I´m in love with my Seahf "Harem".


Sultan


----------



## music4mhell

kinetic758 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > No No, i enjoy the highs, but yes others are using thin foams, but i use Hiegi Foams, which gives more bass and less Highs.
> ...


 
 I prefer Thick foams like Hiegi with Mojito & Cygnus, But thin foam like Monk+ with Zen 2 or Seahf.


----------



## haiku

music4mhell said:


> I prefer Thick foams like Hiegi with Mojito & Cygnus, But thin foam like Monk+ with Zen 2 or Seahf.


 
  

 I like my Seahf "naked".


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

music4mhell said:


> I prefer Thick foams like Hiegi with Mojito & Cygnus, But thin foam like Monk+ with Zen 2 or Seahf.




I only use Monk+ thin foams


----------



## kurtextrem

music4mhell said:


> I prefer Thick foams like Hiegi with Mojito & Cygnus, But thin foam like Monk+ with Zen 2 or Seahf.


 
 I find Hiegis kind of make the Cygnus darker, less detailed? hmm


----------



## music4mhell

kurtextrem said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I prefer Thick foams like Hiegi with Mojito & Cygnus, But thin foam like Monk+ with Zen 2 or Seahf.
> ...


 
 May be i am sensitive to High frequency


----------



## ngoshawk

kurtextrem said:


> I find Hiegis kind of make the Cygnus darker, less detailed? hmm


 

 Nothing but naked for me. Although I do have the Monk rubber rings on my EM3's...


----------



## vapman

I need to get some Hiegis if that are that good at fattening the bass/taming the highs. Sucks only Penon seems to carry them and on Ali they add an extra $3 for shipping with every pack of Heigis added...
  
 My Auglamours are ALMOST here but I wanted to share this ridiculous journey it's taken courtesy of UPS with all of you!
  

  
 I'm hoping the rest of you have less roundabout delivery routes


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> I need to get some Hiegis if that are that good at fattening the bass/taming the highs. Sucks only Penon seems to carry them and on Ali they add an extra $3 for shipping with every pack of Heigis added...
> 
> My Auglamours are ALMOST here but I wanted to share this ridiculous journey it's taken courtesy of UPS with all of you!
> 
> ...


 
  
 I got my Hiegi's from Amazon.
  
 With regards to crazy shipping, my Mojito's sat in Customs (which is about 8 miles from my house) and was then transported 80 miles east of home.  No idea...


----------



## vapman

kinetic758 said:


> I got my Hiegi's from Amazon.
> 
> With regards to crazy shipping, my Mojito's sat in Customs (which is about 8 miles from my house) and was then transported 80 miles east of home.  No idea...


 

 USPS has been pretty awful lately..... 6 lost packages this month alone for me?
  
 Thanks tons for the Amazon tip, should have thought to check there - some are add on items and some are Prime but altogether it's still cheaper than buying from Penon by a good $9 or so, haha! Just ordered 2 sets thank you!


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> USPS has been pretty awful lately..... 6 lost packages this month alone for me?
> 
> Thanks tons for the Amazon tip, should have thought to check there - some are add on items and some are Prime but altogether it's still cheaper than buying from Penon by a good $9 or so, haha! Just ordered 2 sets thank you!


 
 No problem!
  
 I order multiple Hiegi's from Amazon and found that some sellers will give it to you in the actual cardboard packaging (as in the description), while others will just ship you the foams in a tiny ziploc bag to save on shipping.  Just an FYI in case you cared!


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> I need to get some Hiegis if that are that good at fattening the bass/taming the highs. Sucks only Penon seems to carry them and on Ali they add an extra $3 for shipping with every pack of Heigis added...
> 
> My Auglamours are ALMOST here but I wanted to share this ridiculous journey it's taken courtesy of UPS with all of you!
> 
> ...


 http://m.shenzhenaudio.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=Hiegi


----------



## dearyon

haiku said:


> I´m really curious, if the bass of the 320 Ohm can be beaten by the LD-3.0 400 Ohm I also have here since yesterday, but hopefully the 320 Ohm V1+2 will arrive today, so I can compare them, too.
> (And very soon I´ll get the brand new Seahf IEM, but that just as a side note....)


 
 said that Seahf V1 is closer to Zen 1 than any other version (in terms of appearance and sound). I am really interested to know the difference between those three 320 ohm version


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> http://m.shenzhenaudio.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=Hiegi


 

 they have an amazon store too, bought them there!  
  
@haiku eagerly awaiting your SeaHf impressions!


----------



## vapman

They're here!!!



(yes that is a big crack in the case thanks to Amazon)


----------



## dearyon

vapman said:


> They're here!!!


 
 Congrats~
 now I'm waiting for your impression


----------



## jant71

vapman said:


> They're here!!!


 
 Congrats! They look nice. Just realized that they, because of the design, are easy to tell left from right though red and blue foams would look cool on the silver


----------



## Tympan

dearyon said:


> said that Seahf V1 is closer to Zen 1 than any other version (in terms of appearance and sound). I am really interested to know the difference between those three 320 ohm version


 
 I have both and they are fully burned in.  Seahf V1 is similar sounding to Zen 1 but not tuned the same.
 Zen 1 has deeper sub bass and smoother mediums/voices to my ears. Zen 1 sounds a little more relaxed and organic.
 Seahf sounds more analytical and a tad colder in comparison.
 As for third version, I haven't heard them.


----------



## vapman

jant71 said:


> Congrats! They look nice. Just realized that they, because of the design, are easy to tell left from right though red and blue foams would look cool on the silver


 
  


dearyon said:


> Congrats~
> now I'm waiting for your impression


 
  
 First impression after about 5-6 songs:
  
 I completely agree with @ClieOS ranking so far. I also would hold it just a step above Cygnus. It seems a bit more natural and balanced than Cygnus IMO. Bass depth and extension is very excellent. It is able to reach sub bass notes. It is not a bass cannon but it is very capable of reaching deep and sounding good.
  
 One of my test suites for all new headphones is Bass Mekanik - Quad Maximus. I love this CD to death. It is one of the best I know for testing bass impact and depth as well as clarity in the rest of the audio spectrum. The Auglamour was able to reach lower bass notes than I expected. Nothing muddy or unclear ever. I am very impressed.
  
 It, like the Monk, has a shockingly natural and well balanced song, although this is definitely quite a few steps above the Monk.
  
 All genres I have tried yet sound awesome. This is a very natural sounding and well balanced earbud. It is better than the Asura 2.0 and I think I might take it over the Cygnus.
  
 The cable is a little rubbery but I can forgive it.
  
 The included extras and packaging is simply top notch. Very intricate. First you remove the shinkwrap, separate the two halves of the plastic shell from each other by removing the rubber wristband on the outside. Pick up the wooden phone stand/earbud holder, the rest of the wire for the earbuds goes into a box below it with the logo cutout. Open that box up, take out a zip case with the AG logo on it, inside there find the AG branded seafoam colored rubber wristband with the rest of the cable, a metal AG logo, and the foams/shirt clip. The wooden phone stand is a crazy nice touch.
  
 So it's a winner in sound quality and packaging. Tested it on miami bass, hip hop, female vocal J-Pop, 80s industrial and 90s house... I have 0 complaints here except it's too bad Amazon smashed the outer plastic shell. At least everything was safe on the inside v
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




v
  
 Just using the foams it came with BTW. I think it might be just a bit too bright for me if I used donuts or MP foams. Probably will put the Hiegis on them when I get those in the mail.


----------



## ngoshawk

golov17 said:


> http://m.shenzhenaudio.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=Hiegi




So, how did it get to Ontario, CA, USA the first time and Philly, PA, USA the second time? Flying from Ontario to Philly is feasible in 4:40, but not very likely, knowing it was immediately checked in. Something fishy goes awry...

Anyway, congrats and I am waiting on my RX-1.


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

vapman said:


> First impression after about 5-6 songs:
> 
> I completely agree with @ClieOS ranking so far. I also would hold it just a step above Cygnus. It seems a bit more natural and balanced than Cygnus IMO. Bass depth and extension is very excellent. It is able to reach sub bass notes. It is not a bass cannon but it is very capable of reaching deep and sounding good.
> 
> ...


 
 Sounds good. How does it compare to the Zen 2.0?


----------



## ngoshawk

vapman said:


> I need to get some Hiegis if that are that good at fattening the bass/taming the highs. Sucks only Penon seems to carry them and on Ali they add an extra $3 for shipping with every pack of Heigis added...
> 
> My Auglamours are ALMOST here but I wanted to share this ridiculous journey it's taken courtesy of UPS with all of you!
> 
> ...





So, how did it get to Ontario, CA, USA the first time and Philly, PA, USA the second time? Flying from Ontario to Philly is feasible in 4:40, but not very likely, knowing it was immediately checked in (6hr flight westward, from Boston...). Something fishy goes awry...and quite interesting!

Anyway, congrats and I am waiting on my RX-1.


----------



## vapman

zombiewinegum said:


> Sounds good. How does it compare to the Zen 2.0?


 

 Zen 2 has a lot more emphasis on the mids and doesn't reach quite as deep on the bass. On the other hand Zen 2 has a lot more detail in the midrange I think. The RX-1 is more of a balanced sound IMO.


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

vapman said:


> Zen 2 has a lot more emphasis on the mids and doesn't reach quite as deep on the bass. On the other hand Zen 2 has a lot more detail in the midrange I think. The RX-1 is more of a balanced sound IMO.


 
 Nice. Tempted to order a pair to try. Where did you get yours from?


----------



## vapman

ngoshawk said:


> So, how did it get to Ontario, CA, USA the first time and Philly, PA, USA the second time? Flying from Ontario to Philly is feasible in 4:40, but not very likely, knowing it was immediately checked in (6hr flight westward, from Boston...). Something fishy goes awry...and quite interesting!
> 
> Anyway, congrats and I am waiting on my RX-1.


 

 Yeah it makes no sense at all, haha.
  
 I got mine from Amazon.
  
 P.S. wanted to note I prefer wearing them with the cable looped over the back of your ear. Maintains a better fit IMO.


----------



## jant71

Mine haven't shipped yet but for some reason they say it will take 1 day till I get them. Must be coming in stock near me(in NY) by the 1st if they are to arrive on the 2nd.


----------



## mochill

vapman said:


> jant71 said:
> 
> 
> > Congrats! They look nice. Just realized that they, because of the design, are easy to tell left from right though red and blue foams would look cool on the silver
> ...


no kontrol album


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Wow better than Cygnus....


----------



## dearyon

tympan said:


> I have both and they are fully burned in.  Seahf V1 is similar sounding to Zen 1 but not tuned the same.
> Zen 1 has deeper sub bass and smoother mediums/voices to my ears. Zen 1 sounds a little more relaxed and organic.
> Seahf sounds more analytical and a tad colder in comparison.
> As for third version, I haven't heard them.


 
 Nice, thanks for this! Now I don't have to buy Seahf V1 to cure my curiosity about the difference between them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  


vapman said:


> First impression after about 5-6 songs:
> 
> I completely agree with @ClieOS ranking so far. I also would hold it just a step above Cygnus. It seems a bit more natural and balanced than Cygnus IMO. Bass depth and extension is very excellent. It is able to reach sub bass notes. It is not a bass cannon but it is very capable of reaching deep and sounding good.
> 
> ...


 
 For that price, the packaging and sound quality of AuGlamour RX-1 is a killer already. I must have it someday


----------



## birdman

My AuGlamour arrived yesterday (Amazon), and my impression is also good. Without having seen ClieOS and vapman's reviews, my early impression also put them near the Cygnus. Side by side the AuGlamour is warmer and less detailed in higher range. Definitely a fun and musical sound. Stiff, rubbery cable. The clip that comes with it seems worthless, the cable doesn't stay in. Not a problem, I have lots of clips. I haven't played with different foams yet, just threw on the full foams. The ones that come with it look like they went through a washer/dryer and shrunk, they're small! But they stretched fine over the bud without tearing, so they're very strong. 
  
 I'm a member of the Adult-Humans-With-Small-Ear-Canals Tribe, and I approve of these earbuds. Very comfortable fit for my small ear canals.


----------



## ld100

Mine is somewhere between China and US. Really hope it will be sooner than later. I am intrigued by all that positive feedback...


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

And this just came in the mail. I was expecting gold but I like this black edition one.


----------



## Townyj

Just placed my order for the RX-1, used Penon as i have had good shipping and customer service from them in the past. Little more expensive then Aliexpress.


----------



## vapman

Was gonna ask why you didn't just order from Amazon but they are nowhere to be found? Hopefully they're temporarily off until they  can get more stock. Clicking the link to the item in my orders page takes me to the Auglamour IEMs.
  
 Not upset at all I'm going to own two RX-1's, will probably use the gold ones more when they get here


----------



## Townyj

vapman said:


> Was gonna ask why you didn't just order from Amazon but they are nowhere to be found? Hopefully they're temporarily off until they  can get more stock. Clicking the link to the item in my orders page takes me to the Auglamour IEMs.
> 
> Not upset at all I'm going to own two RX-1's, will probably use the gold ones more when they get here




I went with gold to  looks great! Also Amazon sometimes doesnt ship to Australia. Which can be a pain!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

All this RX-1 talk!  Mine are supposed to be here in about 12 hours, can't wait! 
  
 --


----------



## audio123

bloodypenguin said:


> All this RX-1 talk!  Mine are supposed to be here in about 12 hours, can't wait!
> 
> --


 
 mine in 6 days


----------



## AudioNewbi3

dearyon said:


> said that Seahf V1 is closer to Zen 1 than any other version (in terms of appearance and sound). I am really interested to know the difference between those three 320 ohm version


 
 That is what I heard too, but as mentioned by others, they are not the same. I only tell you the diff between the 320Ohm V1 and V2. To me, I prefer my custom tuned V1 more than V2 for relaxing and just listening to vocals in general. The v1 is more of a "lower frequency" bud, whereas the v2 (before I blew it up with my amp) is airier and more balanced.
  


vapman said:


> They're here!!!
> 
> 
> 
> (yes that is a big crack in the case thanks to Amazon)


 
 Damn.....will they compensate you in any manner?
  


vapman said:


> First impression after about 5-6 songs:
> 
> I completely agree with @ClieOS ranking so far. I also would hold it just a step above Cygnus. It seems a bit more natural and balanced than Cygnus IMO. Bass depth and extension is very excellent. It is able to reach sub bass notes. It is not a bass cannon but it is very capable of reaching deep and sounding good.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the detailed first impressions.
 Mine is coming from China and I should have it in about 7 Days!!!!!
 Can't wait!!!!


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> Damn.....will they compensate you in any manner?


 
 I let them now the outer case was smashed, but i'm not super pissed. I would be angrier if I wanted to keep it for display purposes or something, but even with all the other goodies they give you inside that box, it's quite a lot of stuff actually. Anyway, nothing inside the case was damaged at all. It's annoying but not like anything inside the case suffered any damage. 
  
 Still using my rx1 now, over the ear is my favorite way to use it, stays right in place perfectly for me. I really am loving these.
  
 I'm thinking SeaHf/TY Hi-Z 150 will be my next purchase.... but I can hold off for a while with these in the arsenal now.


----------



## music4mhell

I think Mojito is end game for Earbuds 
 I am not able to hear anything else, although i had ordered RX-1.
  
 But i feel, i will wait for next flagship earbud (~$200)


----------



## badmod

Is the Dragonfly DAC capable to drive Zen 2? I know it has an amp but not sure how powerful it is. What other options are there (~$100 or less) to use with a laptop? Not interested to use it with my phone and I don't want a desktop amp but something that is semi-portable (if that make sense?).


----------



## audio123

music4mhell said:


> I think Mojito is end game for Earbuds
> I am not able to hear anything else, although i had ordered RX-1.
> 
> But i feel, i will wait for next flagship earbud (~$200)


 
 there is no end game


----------



## kinetic758

music4mhell said:


> I think Mojito is end game for Earbuds
> I am not able to hear anything else, although i had ordered RX-1.
> 
> But i feel, i will wait for next flagship earbud (~$200)




Should hopefully have my hands on the Mojito tomorrow. Let's see if it lives up to all the recent hype.


----------



## vapman

badmod said:


> Is the Dragonfly DAC capable to drive Zen 2? I know it has an amp but not sure how powerful it is. What other options are there (~$100 or less) to use with a laptop? Not interested to use it with my phone and I don't want a desktop amp but something that is semi-portable (if that make sense?).


 

 I was able to power it happily with my Xduoo X3, that's only 175ish mW @ 32 ohms. Don't know how powerful the Dragonfly it, but check its output and it might be good


----------



## music4mhell

kinetic758 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I think Mojito is end game for Earbuds
> ...


 
 All the best buddy  Wish you luck.


----------



## kinetic758

music4mhell said:


> All the best buddy  Wish you luck.




Thanks! Granted, I will be running these straight from my phone, so its very likely that I won't be hearing their full potential.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Mojito with Cayin C5 = bass heaven!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## vapman

One of the reasons I like the RX-1 so much: it makes normal MP3's and sources sound much better than they should, but try playing something lossless into it, and get ready to be in disbelief.
  
 With the over the ear way of wearing them it's very easy to get them to stay in a place that's positioned right so you get to get nice solid bass.


----------



## Tomasz2D

alex cy said:


> I found another interesting "~20$" earbuds  - Plexton x55m


 


golov17 said:


> about
> also


 


golov17 said:


> http://ru.aliexpress.com/item/YMHFPJ-diy-MX500-Stereo-Earphone-Wired-300-OHM-HIFI-Headset-Slive-cable-Headphones-For-Samsung-iPhone/32656179214.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Is there any follow-up regarding both YMHFPJ 300 Ohm and Plexton x55m earbuds? Anybody got them finally?


----------



## justvinh

Currently having the Cygnus and I love it, cant resist the hype over the RX-1 so I pulled the trigger


----------



## Saoshyant

For the price, I'm quite impressed with the RX-1, haven't done any comparisons vs other vocal-based earbuds yet, but I'm impressed so far. I think the Crow Audio Signature Edition might have more forward vocals, but can't say until I can compare the two. I will say it's very good for softer albums, and is very easily heard during low volume listening. Really enjoyed some Eels at work.

The sub-bass is good enough that for an earbud it'll make a decent all-arounder. There's enough for Portishead at least.


----------



## haiku

More impression from Seahf LD-3.0 320 Ohm (3rd day)
  
 They highlight the skill of each musician. I can easily follow what every musician is playing. So where the 150 Ohm and 4.0 400 Ohm care more about the sound of the band as a whole, the 320 Ohm present the music with more depth and detail. Very nice.
  
 (Side note: They´re also the earbuds, which give me the most goosebumps of all earbuds. They excell even more than the Monks in this category, which were my favorites so far.)


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> More impression from Seahf LD-3.0 320 Ohm (3rd day)
> 
> They highlight the skill of each musician. I can easily follow what every musician is playing. So where the 150 Ohm and 4.0 400 Ohm care more about the sound of the band as a whole, the 320 Ohm present the music with more depth and detail. Very nice.
> 
> (Side note: They´re also the earbuds, which give me the most goosebumps of all earbuds. They excell even more than the Monks in this category, which were my favorites so far.)


 
 Which other earbuds do you have to compare ?


----------



## kurtextrem

The Seahf LD-4.0 is 22% off for 24h on Aliexpress... but the LD-3.0 320 Ohm got my attention as well. I wonder which one you'd pick (question to all here  )?


----------



## haiku

kurtextrem said:


> The Seahf LD-4.0 is 22% off for 24h on Aliexpress... but the LD-3.0 320 Ohm got my attention as well. I wonder which one you'd pick (question to all here  )?


 

 The 320 Ohm impress me most. Listen to "Free - Live" atm. I´ve never heard them play with so much heart and emotion. Goosebumps constantly....
 But then, I also have here the Seahf Smart 1.0 + 2.0 320 Ohm, and also the LD-3.0 400 Ohm, awaiting my attention. I´ll listen to them soon, but atm I´m just having too much fun listening to the LD-3.0 320 Ohm.


----------



## kurtextrem

haiku said:


> The 320 Ohm impress me most. Listen to "Free - Live" atm. I´ve never heard them play with so much heart and emotion. Goosebumps constantly....
> But then, I also have here the Seahf Smart 1.0 + 2.0 320 Ohm, and also the LD-3.0 400 Ohm, awaiting my attention. I´ll listen to them soon, but atm I´m just having too much fun listening to the LD-3.0 320 Ohm.


 
 can't wait  because the seahf 3.0 150 Ohm had great bass for me, but I like Cygnus/Asura 2.0 more, because Seahfs sound is too distant and dark
  
 on a side note: wow, the Aux arrived today... it took under 7 days to arrive in germany. what is this magic?


----------



## Townyj

haiku said:


> The 320 Ohm impress me most. Listen to "Free - Live" atm. I´ve never heard them play with so much heart and emotion. Goosebumps constantly....
> But then, I also have here the Seahf Smart 1.0 + 2.0 320 Ohm, and also the LD-3.0 400 Ohm, awaiting my attention. I´ll listen to them soon, but atm I´m just having too much fun listening to the LD-3.0 320 Ohm.




Can someone tell me what the difference is between the Seahf and TY Hi-Z brand is?


----------



## haiku

kurtextrem said:


> can't wait  because the seahf 3.0 150 Ohm had great bass for me, but I like Cygnus/Asura 2.0 more, because Seahfs sound is too distant and dark


 
 What´s your source?


----------



## kurtextrem

haiku said:


> What´s your source?


 
 Soundcard: Soundblaster Z (so PC)


----------



## fairx

My RX-1 should arrive around next week. And my friend been eyeing my tomahawks for days. . Not so fast bro.. The Hawks still special


----------



## Rizky Octayudha

Is anyone who have TY Hi-Z 150 ohm here?
  
 Would you mind share your impression here?
  
 Thanks before


----------



## vapman

townyj said:


> Can someone tell me what the difference is between the Seahf and TY Hi-Z brand is?


 

 From what I understand one is slightly tuned different than the other. More or less the same thing?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

townyj said:


> Can someone tell me what the difference is between the Seahf and TY Hi-Z brand is?


 
 SeaHf is the maker of all the drivers, the sound is tunned slightly different for each brand.


----------



## Townyj

audionewbi3 said:


> SeaHf is the maker of all the drivers, the sound is tunned slightly different for each brand.


 
  


vapman said:


> From what I understand one is slightly tuned different than the other. More or less the same thing?


 
  
 Cheers guys


----------



## luedriver

pretty noob question, but if a earbud is 16ohm how can it have less  volume and perhaps need amping, even more than other earbuds that are 32 ohms or more?
  
 I am asking because my tdk eb90 seem to not be as loud as other earbuds or even my philips shp9500 when connecting to the same source, in fact it is much quieter than almost all other earbuds


----------



## kinetic758

Curious.. For those who currently have the MX985, how it compares to the RX-1 when you get them!


----------



## luedriver

clieOS updated the list
  
  
 Quote:


> *Category 2: THE GREAT*
> 
> 
> *37. VE Monk Plus* - Balanced tilting toward neutral. Solid all-arounder.


 
 in comparison


> *Category 3: THE GOOD*
> 
> 
> *3.* VE Monk - Rich and engaging sound with a good mid but can be slightly echo-ish sometime.


----------



## mebaali

luedriver said:


> pretty noob question, but if a earbud is 16ohm how can it have less  volume and perhaps need amping, even more than other earbuds that are 32 ohms or more?
> 
> I am asking because my tdk eb90 seem to not be as loud as other earbuds or even my philips shp9500 when connecting to the same source, in fact it is much quieter than almost all other earbuds


 
 I am no expert but I guess it has something to do with sensitivity more so than ohm alone.


----------



## luedriver

mebaali said:


> I am no expert but I guess it has to do with sensitivity more so than ohm alone.


 
  
  
 the box says 85+/- 3 dB @ 1 kHz


----------



## mebaali

luedriver said:


> I'm no expert, the box says 85+/- 3 dB @ 1 kHz


 
 That seems quite low.
  
 In my experience, buds/iems with 100db+ sensitivity are lot easier to drive even if it is 32 ohm impedence


----------



## mochill

85 db is very low sensitivity, that is why it needs more volume to sound loud☺


----------



## mebaali

luedriver said:


> in comparison


 
 Agree with @ClieOS on original Monk (i do not own monk plus).
  
 While, i like it for being fun little buds at very low price, all too frequently i face the issue of boomy/echovy feel to it on many of my favt tracks (this ain't the case with TY Hi Z 32 and Philips SHE3800).


----------



## leobigfield

Agreed. The original Monk sound marvelous to me with the ex-pack rubber rings and double thin foams. They are more detailed, airy, resolving and dynamic than any of my other budget phones like KZ ED10, ATE, Fidue A31s, VSD1S, VSD2, VSD3, A&D D2, Hisoundaudio HA-2, etc. I know they are IEMs but with the monks i can keep up/follow every note from every instrument while with any other of my phones they always "blend" together at some point and i miss something. To my ears the highs are soo crispy yet so smooth that strikes exactly my preferences. Using them with my Xduoo x3.


----------



## vapman

^^ I will have to bust out some of my OG monks and try that out. However before the EX packs were a thing, I paid something like $16 to get 5 pairs of rubber rings Sennheiser brand sent to me from UK and they ripped crazy easy, so I put foams on top of them to keep em from ripping any more...
  
 Anyway the RX-1 is WAY better than it has any right to be. I didn't order it when I came out cause I assumed it was gonna be all looks, especially with all the bonuses in the box. But god damn, VE is going to have to come up with some killer packaging or bonuses for the Zen 2 to keep it competitive IMO. The RX-1 already walks all over the  Asura 2.0 (another high end earbud with no packaging)
  
 Lossy sources the RX-1 is way better than it should be.
 Lossless sources the RX-1 is simply unbelievable.


----------



## leobigfield

I've ordered the RX-1,too bad things from China take 30-60 days to get to Brazil


----------



## rggz

Just a tip if you  want buy a RX-1 if you'll buy from this seller from Aliexpress, type "METAL" in the "Leave a message for this seller:"  and wait the seller adjust your price to $18!


----------



## leobigfield

I paid $19 from another seller.


----------



## luedriver

I bought them from a seller that golov17 had suggested a while back, and probably won't get them till 20th of next month, teach me to be stingy on postage prices


----------



## haiku

kurtextrem said:


> can't wait  because the seahf 3.0 150 Ohm had great bass for me, but I like Cygnus/Asura 2.0 more, because Seahfs sound is too distant and dark


 
  
 I guess what you interpret as "distant" is the depth they create. Well, then you won´t like the LD-3.0 320 Ohm, because they have an even deeper soundstage. If you want more "flat and wide", I´d suggest trying out the LD-4.0 400 Ohm.


----------



## mebaali

leobigfield said:


> I paid $19 from another seller.


 
 At least your's was better than mine (by a dollar), paid 20 US$ for aliex seller (that's after what was supposed to be a 2 US$ seller discount)


----------



## BloodyPenguin

*RX-1 "Out for Delivery".*
   
 


  
 --


----------



## leobigfield

mebaali said:


> At least your's was better than mine (by a dollar), paid 20 US$ for aliex seller (that's after what was supposed to be a 2 US$ seller discount)




At the actual exchange rate here ($1 = BRL$ 3,50), every dollar counts!


----------



## kurtextrem

haiku said:


> I guess what you interpret as "distant" is the depth they create. Well, then you won´t like the LD-3.0 320 Ohm, because they have an even deeper soundstage. If you want more "flat and wide", I´d suggest trying out the LD-4.0 400 Ohm.


 
 Thanks man, I guess we understand each other!
  
 ----
 "Sad" day for me, not the Aux1 arrived, but the DIY Dual Driver...
 first impression: Holy ****, it's big. Without foams it doesn't stay in my ear (Cygnus is perfect, Asura 2.0 is ok) - but holy ****, it's completely different to the Cygnus or Asura 2:
 It makes the sound come from directly from the front of you (even though the sound comes in your left/right ears, btw the L/R marker are worse than Asura 2.0 lol) WOW


----------



## AudioNewbi3

kurtextrem said:


> Thanks man, I guess we understand each other!
> 
> ----
> "Sad" day for me, not the Aux1 arrived, but the DIY Dual Driver...
> ...


 
 wait till you get the Mojitos mate


----------



## BloodyPenguin

How on earth are the *AUGLAMOUR RX-1* under $20 USD?  I just don't get it!
  
 Great Packaging, Nice Accessories and Fantastic Out of the Box Sound! 
  
  
  
 I snapped a few quick pictures of them:
  
  




  
  

  
  

  
 --


----------



## audio123

bloodypenguin said:


> How on earth are the *AUGLAMOUR RX-1* under $20 USD?  I just don't get it!
> 
> Great Packaging, Nice Accessories and Fantastic Out of the Box Sound!
> 
> ...


wait is horrible 6 more days to mine


----------



## klove4252

vapman said:


> I need to get some Hiegis if that are that good at fattening the bass/taming the highs. Sucks only Penon seems to carry them and on Ali they add an extra $3 for shipping with every pack of Heigis added...
> 
> My Auglamours are ALMOST here but I wanted to share this ridiculous journey it's taken courtesy of UPS with all of you!
> 
> ...




It looks like they flew into Logan, couldn't deal with the heat wave, then bolted for Canada. I can't blame them. Apparently even earbuds hate the heat.


----------



## vapman

klove4252 said:


> It looks like they flew into Logan, couldn't deal with the heat wave, then bolted for Canada. I can't blame them. Apparently even earbuds hate the heat.


 
 Hah! It's been so humid my ASG-B's cable rapidly turned a bright green this week. Sometimes oxidation is fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Boston head-fi'ers are always welcome to demo whatever gear I own.


----------



## ngoshawk

klove4252 said:


> It looks like they flew into Logan, couldn't deal with the heat wave, then bolted for Canada. I can't blame them. Apparently even earbuds hate the heat.




Except that is Ontario, CA, USA. Suburb of LA. Guess it went looking for stars to hang with...still waiting for mine, too.


----------



## vapman

I wish more earbuds let you wear them over the ear like the RX-1. Such an often overlooked detail that can really make a great fit.


----------



## jamesbdh

I am the wrong one to ask about a description but if you had hesitated about buying the RX-1...... don't... like at all.  Not saying it is the best possible out there but you will not regret the $20.


----------



## kinetic758




----------



## kinetic758

Did anyone who got a Mojito notice that the non-metal part is a little sticky?


----------



## mochill

3D printed


----------



## kinetic758

mochill said:


> 3D printed




Ah. I didn't know that the 3D printing left a residue?


----------



## mochill

IT does, depend on the printer☺. Definitely shouldn't effect sound


----------



## klove4252

ngoshawk said:


> Except that is Ontario, CA, USA. Suburb of LA. Guess it went looking for stars to hang with...still waiting for mine, too.


 
 The heat in Boston is killing my ability to read. I clearly missed the big United States part right next to CA.


----------



## ngoshawk

klove4252 said:


> The heat in Boston is killing my ability to read. I clearly missed the big United States part right next to CA.




Lol, no prob. I was trying to figure out how it departed two places without arriving at one of them!

And I'm glad the initial reviews of the RX-1 are good. I will add mine...after arrival!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Listening to the brand new album *Zhu - Generationwhy* with the *RX-1 *right now.  Wowza!  Really enjoying it. 
  
 I've been burning Auglamour earbud in most of the day.  I'm sure it still needs a lot more time, but so far I am getting a very easy going sound.  Kind of reminds of the relaxed signature of the Meze 99 Classics Headphone (with a bigger soundstage). 
  
 Sub-bass is bit smaller than I like, more emphasis on Mid-Bass.  Mids are controlled and smooth.  Highs are detailed without being harsh.
  
 Looking forward to spending more time with the RX-1.
  
 --


----------



## audio123

bloodypenguin said:


> Listening to the brand new album *Zhu - Generationwhy* with the [COLOR=696969]*RX-1*[/COLOR] right now.  Wowza!  Really enjoying it.
> 
> I've been burning Auglamour earbud in most of the day.  I'm sure it still needs a lot more time, but so far I am getting a very easy going sound.  Kind of reminds of the relaxed signature of the Meze 99 Classics Headphone (with a bigger soundstage).
> 
> ...


._. I have great expectations from mine now  looking forward


----------



## kinetic758

My first 20 min with the Mojitos and my initial impressions: they seem treble heavy. They're a little more pickier with fit. Bass is lighter than I thought they would be. I'm using the Monk+ thin foams. Perhaps I need to try the thicker Hiegi foams. A little disappointed but maybe I need to give them more time.


----------



## vapman

kinetic758 said:


> My first 20 min with the Mojitos and my initial impressions: they seem treble heavy. They're a little more pickier with fit. Bass is lighter than I thought they would be. I'm using the Monk+ thin foams. Perhaps I need to try the thicker Hiegi foams. A little disappointed but maybe I need to give them more time.




Double foam and try to loop it over ear. Let us know if that works out for you


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> Double foam and try to loop it over ear. Let us know if that works out for you




Double foaming definitely helped the fit. Tamed the highs a bit and bumped the lows as you would expect, unfortunately at the expense of reducing a bit of the air and soundstage width. Can't have it all I guess! Thanks for your suggestions. I'll probably keep the double foam for now.


----------



## SWLIU

bloodypenguin said:


> Listening to the brand new album *Zhu - Generationwhy* with the [COLOR=696969]*RX-1*[/COLOR] right now.  Wowza!  Really enjoying it.
> 
> I've been burning Auglamour earbud in most of the day.  I'm sure it still needs a lot more time, but so far I am getting a very easy going sound.  Kind of reminds of the relaxed signature of the Meze 99 Classics Headphone (with a bigger soundstage).
> 
> ...




What a coincidence! I has been doing exactly the same thing, listening to Generationwhy with Auglamour RX-1, for the whole day. Really enjoyed both.


----------



## justvinh

Is the Auglamour RX-1 really that good? is it as good as the cygnus?


----------



## Townyj

justvinh said:


> Is the Auglamour RX-1 really that good? is it as good as the cygnus?




ClieOS rates it higher then the Cygnus.. depends on the person's ears though  decided to take a gamble on it.


----------



## ld100

klove4252 said:


> The heat in Boston is killing my ability to read. I clearly missed the big United States part right next to CA.


 
  
 I hear you. F**ing ridiculous. Was raining at 10 am and then still got horrible...


----------



## ld100

What do you guys think would be the biggest improvement to iPhone out to earbud on a budget? Dragonfly 1.2? Would appreciate your opinions...


----------



## golov17

ld100 said:


> What do you guys think would be the biggest improvement to iPhone out to earbud on a budget? Dragonfly 1.2? Would appreciate your opinions...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

kinetic758 said:


> Did anyone who got a Mojito notice that the non-metal part is a little sticky?


 
 Can you upload picture of the part? I will check it with mine.


bloodypenguin said:


> Listening to the brand new album *Zhu - Generationwhy* with the *RX-1 *right now.  Wowza!  Really enjoying it.
> 
> I've been burning Auglamour earbud in most of the day.  I'm sure it still needs a lot more time, but so far I am getting a very easy going sound.  Kind of reminds of the relaxed signature of the Meze 99 Classics Headphone (with a bigger soundstage).
> 
> ...


 
 Wohooo!!!! I can't wait for mine to arrive next week!!!!!!!
  


kinetic758 said:


> My first 20 min with the Mojitos and my initial impressions: they seem treble heavy. They're a little more pickier with fit. Bass is lighter than I thought they would be. I'm using the Monk+ thin foams. Perhaps I need to try the thicker Hiegi foams. A little disappointed but maybe I need to give them more time.


 
 Are you sure they are lacking in bass? My unit's bass is more pronounced than the Cygnus. 
 But then again, I use mine with rubber rings and Monk+ foams, so that might have gotten me a better fit.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Some full photos of my ultimate rig:
 - Astell & Kern AK Jr music player
 - Cayin C5 portable headphone amp
 - Rose Mojito hi-fidelity earbuds with VE Monk+ white rubber rings and red and blue Monk+ foams (waiting for alternate Lune MKIII cable from Null Audio)
 - Fiio L16 3.5 mm silver interconnect cable


----------



## kinetic758

audionewbi3 said:


> Can you upload picture of the part? I will check it with mine.
> Wohooo!!!! I can't wait for mine to arrive next week!!!!!!!
> 
> Are you sure they are lacking in bass? My unit's bass is more pronounced than the Cygnus.
> But then again, I use mine with rubber rings and Monk+ foams, so that might have gotten me a better fit.




The sticky part was the curved piece behind the speaker grill if that makes any sense.

With regards to bass, I think I may be having fit issues. Doubling up the Monk foams helped but I'm still not sure they approach Cygnus levels for me. I could try to use the Monk+ exp pack rubber rings, but they seem a bit small for the Mojito.


----------



## ld100

golov17 said:


>


 
  
  
 What exactly is it?


----------



## justvinh

How is the fit of the RX-1 compare to the cygnus, is the housing of the RX-1 any bigger than the Cygnus?


----------



## golov17

ld100 said:


> What exactly is it?


 http://www.centrance.com/products/hifi-skyn/
https://mobile.twitter.com/hidizs


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kinetic758 said:


> The sticky part was the curved piece behind the speaker grill if that makes any sense.
> 
> With regards to bass, I think I may be having fit issues. Doubling up the Monk foams helped but I'm still not sure they approach Cygnus levels for me. I could try to use the Monk+ exp pack rubber rings, but they seem a bit small for the Mojito.




To my ears, bass is way deeper in Mojito than Cygnus


----------



## ld100

golov17 said:


> http://www.centrance.com/products/hifi-skyn/
> https://mobile.twitter.com/hidizs


 
  
 I seen Centrance thingy before. Not crazy about that idea as the new iPhone is going to be here soon and investing that much in a product that might be outdated shortly does not seem as a good idea...
  
 What is hidizs? I don't see any ingot on that DAC? Where do they sell it?


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> To my ears, bass is way deeper in Mojito than Cygnus


 
 IMO mojito goes deeper but cygnus has way more impact.
  
 When properly fitted the auglamour hits pretty dang hard.


----------



## kurtextrem

The Cygnus has bass? wait until you hear seahf LD-3.0 150 Ohm (or maybe 320 too)


----------



## haiku

kurtextrem said:


> The Cygnus has bass? wait until you hear seahf LD-3.0 150 Ohm (or maybe 320 too)


 
  

 Hehe...


----------



## golov17

ld100 said:


> I seen Centrance thingy before. Not crazy about that idea as the new iPhone is going to be here soon and investing that much in a product that might be outdated shortly does not seem as a good idea...
> 
> What is hidizs? I don't see any ingot on that DAC? Where do they sell it?


Coming soon on Amazon


----------



## Vishal

Somebody please post some impression of TY hi-z 400s as these got my attention.. And if possible little comparison with VE zen 2.0 

Vishal. 
Happy listening.


----------



## kurtextrem

vishal said:


> Somebody please post some impression of TY hi-z 400s as these got my attention.. And if possible little comparison with VE zen 2.0
> 
> Vishal.
> Happy listening.


 
 Seems like the Zen 2.0 is better (see first post), but the Seahf LD-4.0 is not yet compared with Zen 2.0 (@haiku your opinion?  )


----------



## ld100

Спасибо


----------



## ld100

golov17 said:


> Coming soon on Amazon


 
  
 Спасибо


----------



## golov17

vishal said:


> Somebody please post some impression of TY hi-z 400s as these got my attention.. And if possible little comparison with VE zen 2.0
> 
> Vishal.
> Happy listening.


 @mochill should know about it


----------



## Lionlian

What an opnion here about mx985 vs zen 2.0 black edition.


----------



## haiku

kurtextrem said:


> Seems like the Zen 2.0 is better (see first post), but the Seahf LD-4.0 is not yet compared with Zen 2.0 (@haiku your opinion?  )


 

 Don´t know about the Zen 2.0, but from what I´ve read it seems that the Seahf 320 Ohm earbuds soundwise lean more toward the Zen 1.0 than the Zen 2.0 . 
 With the LD-4.0 400 Ohm the makers wanted a more balanced sound, and I guess that´s why in contrast to vapman´s review of the LD-3.0, I wouldn´t say that the LD-4.0 are "bass monsters". Take everything I say with a grain of salt, because I have yet 3 Seahf earbuds here I haven´t listened to (one of them being the LD-3.0 400 Ohm), but I think the LD-4.0 may be the best allrounder of all. Totally non-fatiguing, big soundstage, very analog sounding, deep reaching bass, but not as powerful and growling as the LD-3.0 320 Ohm.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> IMO mojito goes deeper but cygnus has way more impact.
> 
> When properly fitted the auglamour hits pretty dang hard.


 
  
 Hmm, interesting, I actually find the Cygnus has less bass than the Mojito's. The bass attack of the Cygnus to me is quick, accurate, but little to no bloom. Whereas, in the Mojito's case, the base is well rounded (like the surface of a sphere when it hits you), decent bloom, full bodied, but not as quick as the Cygnus.

 Or maybe I am just bad at describing sound signature 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






kurtextrem said:


> The Cygnus has bass? wait until you hear seahf LD-3.0 150 Ohm (or maybe 320 too)


 


haiku said:


> Hehe...


 
  
 Oh, I have heard both the SeaHF 320 V1 and V2 (Sadly destroyed by my stupidity), and in my opinion, the 320 V1, especially the custom tuned version which I own, the bass is fantastic, full bloom, but it is not that well controled as the Cygnus or Mojito. The SeaHF 320 V1 is good for laid back and relaxing listening, but not that good (IMHO) for critical listening. 
  
 However, all that being said, I enjoy my V1 damn much. For late night listening to female vocal jazz pieces, not even the Cygnus comes close to the ambiance that the V1 can provide.


----------



## haiku

audionewbi3 said:


> Hmm, interesting, I actually find the Cygnus has less bass than the Mojito's. The bass attack of the Cygnus to me is quick, accurate, but little to no bloom. Whereas, in the Mojito's case, the base is well rounded (like the surface of a sphere when it hits you), decent bloom, full bodied, but not as quick as the Cygnus.
> 
> Or maybe I am just bad at describing sound signature
> 
> ...


 

 Ok, now you got me interested. Started listening to the Seahf Smart 1.0 320 Ohm.
 First impressions:
 This has even more bass than the LD-3.0 320 Ohm and better highs, but the sound lacks depth and width. It also sounds rather slow, so lacks Prat, which is where the LD-4.0 400 Ohm shine the most so far. The Smart 1.0 for me is the counterpart to the LD-3.0 150 Ohm, because where the 150 Ohm sounds fast and powerful, the Smart 1.0 isn´t even able to make me tap my feet. But here´s the thing: That´s not what it wants. Read on....
 Yeah, AudioNewbi, you´re right, where the Smart 1.0 really shines is when it comes to create a kind of "atmosphere" around the music. This is where it outclasses all other earbuds I know right now. You get lost in the music with it. Kind of hypnotic. 
 Great and addictive sound, but very very special earbud.


----------



## Tomasz2D

golov17 said:


> Good Panasonic, recommended


 
 No foams in RP-HV41E retail box?


----------



## golov17

Since we were talking about Seahf, and I can speak .. LD3.0 150 fun-sounding, LD3.0 400 most adult sound, although talented, but little character of sound (liquid), though, and with tonally well balanced, better than LD3.0 320. IMHO


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> No foams in RP-HV41E retail box?


 I do not remember..


----------



## haiku

golov17 said:


> Since we were talking about Seahf, and I can speak .. LD3.0 400 most adult sound, although talented, but little character of sound


 
 I haven´t listened to the LD-3.0 400 Ohm yet, but for me, this is the big minus when it comes to so called "Allrounders". They don´t excel in anything, so you get bored of them pretty quick. I guess this is the reason the MX985 doesn´t have a big fan base.
  
 More impressions from 1st Day listening to Seahf Smart 1.0 320 Ohm
  
 The Smart loose against the other Seahf earbuds, when you judge it in terms of "Hifi characteristics". The sound of the LD-4.0 is much more balanced, it has a much wider soundstage, the flow is better, it has more dynamic headroom, scales better. The LD-3.0 320 Ohm is much more "live - like", has more dynamic and controlled bass, gives voices an outstanding timbre, and has a deep soundstage.
 But the Smart 1.0 shine brightly when it comes to presenting sound structures. It directs your attention away from "Highs/Mids/Bass, etc.", toward  the inner core of the music, the melody, the text, the feeling, the atmosphere. It lures you deep into the heart of the sound, and once you´re there, you loose yourself and become one with it. Man, what an earbud.....


----------



## golov17

haiku said:


> I haven´t listened to the LD-3.0 400 Ohm yet, but for me, this is the big minus when it comes to so called "Allrounders". They don´t excel in anything, so you get bored of them pretty quick. I guess this is the reason the MX985 doesn´t have a big fan base.
> 
> More impressions from 1st Day listening to Seahf Smart 1.0 320 Ohm
> 
> ...


this?


----------



## haiku

golov17 said:


> this?


 

 Yup.


----------



## luedriver

sorry for butting in, you have my curiosity, how much and where are these Seahf Smart 1.0 320 Ohm sold?


----------



## haiku

luedriver said:


> sorry for butting in, you have my curiosity, how much and where are these Seahf Smart 1.0 320 Ohm sold?


 

 http://www.taobaocart.com/Product/525608265905/HIFI-level_seahf_smart_320ohm_high_resistance_flat_plug_headphones


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> Is the 400 Ohm 4.0 worth it for the bass extension? I feel Ostry KC08t already has that covered.


 I saw from AE, you bought Ostry kc08 and kc08t, what is the difference in the sound at your opinion?


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> IMO mojito goes deeper but cygnus has way more impact.




Exactly this. I think the perceived bass on the Cygnus (for me) seemed bigger because of the mid bass bump it has. It could very well be that the Mojito goes deeper, but I haven't really tried hard to compare them or ran test tones. I'm also not completely confident in the fit yet.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

haiku said:


> Ok, now you got me interested. Started listening to the Seahf Smart 1.0 320 Ohm.
> First impressions:
> This has even more bass than the LD-3.0 320 Ohm and better highs, but the sound lacks depth and width. It also sounds rather slow, so lacks Prat, which is where the LD-4.0 400 Ohm shine the most so far. The Smart 1.0 for me is the counterpart to the LD-3.0 150 Ohm, because where the 150 Ohm sounds fast and powerful, the Smart 1.0 isn´t even able to make me tap my feet. But here´s the thing: That´s not what it wants. Read on....
> Yeah, AudioNewbi, you´re right, where the Smart 1.0 really shines is when it comes to create a kind of "atmosphere" around the music. This is where it outclasses all other earbuds I know right now. You get lost in the music with it. Kind of hypnotic.
> Great and addictive sound, but very very special earbud.


 
  
  


haiku said:


> I haven´t listened to the LD-3.0 400 Ohm yet, but for me, this is the big minus when it comes to so called "Allrounders". They don´t excel in anything, so you get bored of them pretty quick. I guess this is the reason the MX985 doesn´t have a big fan base.
> 
> More impressions from 1st Day listening to Seahf Smart 1.0 320 Ohm
> 
> ...


 
  
 Now you see the magic of the 320 v1's hahahahaha.


----------



## leobigfield

Guys, wouldn't it be wise to also state what foams and accessories (hooks, rubber ring, etc) you are using when comparing/giving impressions? Mostly important to foams since they can change a lot the the perceived signature of the earbus.


----------



## haiku

audionewbi3 said:


> Now you see the magic of the 320 v1's hahahahaha.


 

 Yes, I got it. It´s interesting, the zen like simplicity of it´s looks matches exactly what it does to me. It makes me listen to my music with a beginner´s mind. When I listen to music, well, I listen to music.....


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

golov17 said:


> I saw from AE, you bought Ostry kc08 and kc08t, what is the difference in the sound at your opinion?


 
 Actually I only got KC08t. I wrote KC08 by accident.


----------



## luedriver

haiku said:


> http://www.taobaocart.com/Product/525608265905/HIFI-level_seahf_smart_320ohm_high_resistance_flat_plug_headphones


 
 pretty expensive shipping $30 or $32 dollars from singapore, I couldn't find them on aliexpress, maybe they could of sent them for free
  
  
 edit, I had found this site earlier, http://www.buyitmao.com/products/525608265905 but wasn't sure about it


----------



## BloodyPenguin

BTW, I talked with the guy selling the RX-1 on Amazon. He says they will be back in stock in a few days, in all three colors. Not sure what the price will be though.

--


----------



## Fabi

Hey guys who own Elibuds Sabia, how do you rate it against other earbuds like VE Monk, etc ? 
Very curious


----------



## dearyon

haiku said:


> Yes, I got it. It´s interesting, the zen like simplicity of it´s looks matches exactly what it does to me. It makes me listen to my music with a beginner´s mind. When I listen to music, well, I listen to music.....


 
 What I see from your impression is... every Seahf earbuds is a must have, I can't decide with one is for me lol. But the 320 Ohm V1 and LD3.0 got me interested.
 and did you perhaps have any Zens to compare with?
  


fabi said:


> Hey guys who own Elibuds Sabia, how do you rate it against other earbuds like VE Monk, etc ?
> Very curious


 
 I ever have Sabia but killed one of the driver when I try to re-cable it lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 From what I could remember it have more open sound than original Monk.
 Wider sound stage, more controlled bass, slightly laid back and slightly thin vocal, and better separation.
 It's have a different type of sound signature than the original Monk.
 And that is come from my memory... It is maybe not accurate. 
 FYI they are going to release the Sabia V2 soon, with better driver (stronger magnet) to improve overall sound quality without changing the sound signature (unlike the original Monk to Monk+)


----------



## AudioNewbi3

leobigfield said:


> Guys, wouldn't it be wise to also state what foams and accessories (hooks, rubber ring, etc) you are using when comparing/giving impressions? Mostly important to foams since they can change a lot the the perceived signature of the earbus.


 
 For me personally, I always use Monk+ thin foams where applicable, if not heige dougnuts all the way.
  


haiku said:


> Yes, I got it. It´s interesting, the zen like simplicity of it´s looks matches exactly what it does to me. It makes me listen to my music with a beginner´s mind. When I listen to music, well, I listen to music.....


 
  






fabi said:


> Hey guys who own Elibuds Sabia, how do you rate it against other earbuds like VE Monk, etc ?
> Very curious


 
  
 I have the Sabia, but haven't listen to it very much, initial impressions was bass quantity.


----------



## golov17

What is it? 
http://mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/525808979447.html


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> What is it?
> http://mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/525808979447.html


 
 Most probably and upgraded version of the M1N VX. @ClieOS sifu, have you tried it yet?
  
 EDIT: Seems like the cable is "30 lines Litz-4N OFC"


----------



## Fabi

dearyon said:


> I ever have Sabia but killed one of the driver when I try to re-cable it lol :tongue_smile:
> 
> 
> From what I could remember it have more open sound than original Monk.
> ...



Thanks guys, I will give Sabia V2 a try and maybe Saida later


----------



## haiku

dearyon said:


> What I see from your impression is... every Seahf earbuds is a must have, I can't decide with one is for me lol. But the 320 Ohm V1 and LD3.0 got me interested.
> and did you perhaps have any Zens to compare with?


 
 Yes, I think you could easily spend months, maybe even a year, just being in the "Seahf Universe". It is like every earbud is showing you it´s special version of the recording, so every time you listen to your music you can discover something new. It´s really a lot of fun. I´m glad I have them all.


----------



## fairx

haiku said:


> Yes, I think you could easily spend months, maybe even a year, just being in the "Seahf Universe". It is like every earbud is showing you it´s special version of the recording, so every time you listen to your music you can discover something new. It´s really a lot of fun. I´m glad I have them all.



If I could get couple of seahf what would be the safe bet? I already have monk +, tomahawk and rx-1 in transit. Just want to have different signature from all that I had. Please suggest. Thanks.


----------



## mochill

Ty hi-z hp400s


----------



## fairx

mochill said:


> Ty hi-z hp400s


Do seahf picky about amp?


----------



## Vishal

mochill said:


> Ty hi-z hp400s




How is it brother..? 
I just made an order.. 

Vishal. 
Happy listening.


----------



## ozkan

How much of an improvement does Seahf smart 1.0 320 ohm offer over the Monk plus? Or which earbud do you recommend as an upgrade? Seahf ld2 400 ohm TY HI-Z 150 ohm and Auglamour RX-1 are also in my next purchase list. 

I want a little more extension on bass and treble.


----------



## Vishal

Nobody has TY hi-z 400s..?


----------



## kurtextrem

vishal said:


> Nobody has TY hi-z 400s..?


 
 first post, ranking


----------



## AudioNewbi3

ozkan said:


> How much of an improvement does Seahf smart 1.0 320 ohm offer over the Monk plus? Or which earbud do you recommend as an upgrade? Seahf ld2 400 ohm TY HI-Z 150 ohm and Auglamour RX-1 are also in my next purchase list.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 All I can say is he Monk+ and the SeaHF V1 has very different signatures. The Monk+ sounds more open and airier compared to the SeaHF V1, but is unable to recreate the magic of V1


----------



## AudioNewbi3

fairx said:


> If I could get couple of seahf what would be the safe bet? I already have monk +, tomahawk and rx-1 in transit. Just want to have different signature from all that I had. Please suggest. Thanks.


 
 320Ohm V1 or the 400 (I have never had the chance to hear it) but based on reviews, seems qite good. But IMHO any of the SeaHF's will bound to differ in sound signature when compared to your line-up, safe for RX-1 as mine are still in transit and should reach by tomorrow.


----------



## mochill

vishal said:


> Nobody has TY hi-z 400s..?


I have them , they sound natural and big


----------



## fairx

audionewbi3 said:


> 320Ohm V1 or the 400 (I have never had the chance to hear it) but based on reviews, seems qite good. But IMHO any of the SeaHF's will bound to differ in sound signature when compared to your line-up, safe for RX-1 as mine are still in transit and should reach by tomorrow.


my rx-1 should be arrive in 2-3 days 

I read people rave about 320Ohm V1. Made me pretty curious. I might as well pick an amp (finally) to prepare for future buys. BTW V1 sold only on taobao?


----------



## audio123

fairx said:


> my rx-1 should be arrive in 2-3 days
> 
> I read people rave about 320Ohm V1. Made me pretty curious. I might as well pick an amp (finally) to prepare for future buys. BTW V1 sold only on taobao?


 

 my rx-1 was just shipped out today arghh


----------



## jant71

Arghh! My RX-1 is still "preparing for shipment"


----------



## audio123

jant71 said:


> Arghh! My RX-1 is still "preparing for shipment"


 

 cant wait for it !


----------



## AudioNewbi3

fairx said:


> my rx-1 should be arrive in 2-3 days
> 
> I read people rave about 320Ohm V1. Made me pretty curious. I might as well pick an amp (finally) to prepare for future buys. BTW V1 sold only on taobao?


 
 I have no idea as I always buy from Taobao using the agent Mybest.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Some new earbuds which I discovered whilst casually browsing Taobao.
  
@ClieOS sifu maybe you or he others can try them out hahaha.
  
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.253.39M5XB&id=534085214055&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail
 Japanese Earbuds by "Aidex"
  
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.170.39M5XB&id=534161130271&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail
 Aufuny Earbuds


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Some new earbuds which I discovered whilst casually browsing Taobao.
> 
> @ClieOS
> sifu maybe you or he others can try them out hahaha.
> ...


like NW Studio earbuds  





http://www.inearmatters.net/2011_07_01_archive.html?m=1


----------



## haiku

fairx said:


> my rx-1 should be arrive in 2-3 days
> 
> I read people rave about 320Ohm V1. Made me pretty curious.


 
  
 You should be, they have a very unique sound signature, but this is exactly why I am also very cautious to recommend them. If you´re looking for something extraordinary, I´d say give them a try, but if you´re in the race for the earbud with "the best highs/mids/bass/soundstage", they are not for you imo.
 Maybe AudioNewbi can share his opinion, too.


----------



## fairx

I'm a balance guy myself but what I really prized in earbud / iem are resolution and depth. Plus it nice to broaden my horizon a little.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> like NW Studio earbuds
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 WOW
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Guess you really are one of the pros when it comes to earbud identification. My respect for you has grown even more!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
 Quote:


haiku said:


> You should be, they have a very unique sound signature, but this is exactly why I am also very cautious to recommend them. If you´re looking for something extraordinary, I´d say give them a try, but if you´re in the race for the earbud with "the best highs/mids/bass/soundstage", they are not for you imo.
> Maybe AudioNewbi can share his opinion, too.


 
  
 Yes, I very much agree with Sir Hiaku's statement. 
 The SeaHF V1's sound signature is what many Chinese would call “听感” earbud. There is no direct translation for it.
 Rather, I think such earbuds are characterized by a darker, laid back, treble "smoothing" or "roll off", with decent amount of detail (think the tomahawks will outdetail them). Bass is also quite prominent with such types of earbuds, however, I do not think that they are the type which bass heads are looking for. Instead, they are slow and has somewhat longer "bloom" duration. 

 Somehow, the 320V1 can create a very nice atmosphere for music, especially slow female or male vocal tracks, where the lower to middle frequencies play a prominent roll in the music. Vocals sound butterly smooth (imagine melted butter slowly dripping) whilst still being able to retain the amount of detail needed. Piano keys sounds very "meaty" as opposed to the "holographic" "crystal clear" sound of the Mojito. It is like the edge of each note is slightly "rounded off", to provide a smooth sensation. 

 Highs are well........there and smoothed out, with ZERO sibilance. As expected, detail retention at such frequencies are less than desirable, but, hell, this is not what these buds are about.
  
 Overall, the 320V1 is an analogue sounding earbud, which focuses on the lower to middle frequencies. Whenever I listen to them, I feel like I am in an underground cozy jazz bar, I will be sitting at the bar, drinking my liquor on the rocks, whilst listening to a live performance by a very pretty middle aged lady with red lipstick OR I just feel like I am infront of a fireplace. Very nice feeling indeed.
  
 Welp, hope that helps and hope you will forgive my slightly unorthodox-ed methodology of providing information. *But these are my personal opinion on the buds.   *As always, your millage may very much vary.

 Cheers


----------



## fairx

Thanks for the detail input I really appreciate it.

Haha I DO get the explanation methodology. I'm a small town computer technician and I had to explain various problem to customers using wierd layman analogy all the time (ie comparing bad sector to potholes in roads and how they affect speed). I also had to explain audiphlile things in simpler terms to my friends by using sketches. Somehow they made me a little creative with my words.


----------



## base08

Okay so I also jumped in the rx1 hype train! Eager to get my pair!


----------



## petan970

base08 said:


> Okay so I also jumped in the rx1 hype train! Eager to get my pair!


 
  
 I hope this RX-1 hype train wont derail because I jumped on too.


----------



## vapman

Been a while since I saw one that wasn't short lived at best so I think you guys are safe, unless something else hits the market that somehow makes the RX-1 and by extension Cygnus, etc etc etc sound like garbage 
  
 My 2 sets of Amazon Hiegis showd up today (thanks those of you who pointed out Amazon stocks them!) but i'm giving my ears a several day break to ward off some tinnitus so i'll be a whole before I get around to reviewing theee.


----------



## oopeteroo

Did someone do a cygnus vs rx-1 comparison ?


----------



## kinetic758

Day 2 with the Mojitos and I can say they've definitely settled down a bit... Highs are still a little elevated, but the detail, clarity and soundstage are definitely on another level compared to my other buds. 

I am disappointed a bit with the quality control, however, given the price. Mine already came with scuffs on the metal and for some reason part of one earbud is very opaque while the other is completely transparent (as if they forgot the polishing step on one of them).


----------



## mochill

They are handmade


----------



## vapman

oopeteroo said:


> Did someone do a cygnus vs rx-1 comparison ?


 
 yes... 3 or 4 in the last few pages off the top of my mind. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


kinetic758 said:


> Day 2 with the Mojitos and I can say they've definitely settled down a bit... Highs are still a little elevated, but the detail, clarity and soundstage are definitely on another level compared to my other buds.
> 
> I am disappointed a bit with the quality control, however, given the price. Mine already came with scuffs on the metal and for some reason part of one earbud is very opaque while the other is completely transparent (as if they forgot the polishing step on one of them).


 
 found this too with my original Mojitos and was quite dissapoined with it. This was back when they painted one red and one blue though, and the quality control was surely even worse then. I was like, "I paid $200 for _this_?!"
  
 The sound quality made up for it, but come on.... at least make it a simple design that doesn't look like it was thrown together by one guy with one paintbrush at that price point...


----------



## kinetic758

mochill said:


> They are handmade




I suppose human error then.  




vapman said:


> yes... 3 or 4 in the last few pages off the top of my mind.
> 
> 
> found this too with my original Mojitos and was quite dissapoined with it. This was back when they painted one red and one blue though, and the quality control was surely even worse then. I was like, "I paid $200 for _this_?!"
> ...




Yes the sound quality does make up for it! The painted version definitely looked a little more homemade than the newer version. Did you finally get yours in?


----------



## mochill

Yes on human error☺


----------



## vapman

kinetic758 said:


> I suppose human error then.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Haven't gotten around to it yet, honestly, not in a rush to at all.
  
 Maybe when they clean up their "human error" of their $200-600 products I will.


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> Haven't gotten around to it yet, honestly, not in a rush to at all.
> 
> Maybe when they clean up their "human error" of their $200-600 products I will.




Seriously. There shouldn't really be an excuse at this price point. The quality of production really is the only weak point of this product.


----------



## music4mhell

I am addicted to Mojito 
 Not getting any interest on other earbuds


----------



## vapman

kinetic758 said:


> Seriously. There shouldn't really be an excuse at this price point. The quality of production really is the only weak point of this product.


 

 The thing is, I was almost willing to accept those shortcomings, but then you buy DIY gear in the sub-$40 range and you get exquisite packaging, an insane number of extras, all sorts of non-earbud related goodies, and of top of it all a finish that looks truly professional.
  
 And then you get the Mojito in its box with 2 pairs of foams, the cables, and the earbuds themselves (which have foam cutouts but were still bouncing around inside the box despite that).
  
 Heck even KZ's that cost $10 at the most have better packing.


----------



## Saoshyant

It could come in a brown paper bag labeled "It's not cocaine" and I'd still be happy. Hell, that'd actually increase my interest.


----------



## luedriver

I am really tempted by the seahf smart 1.0 even though I am waiting for fidelio s1, ty hi-z32, auglamor rx-1 and some she3580's in the mail, worst yet than I don't have a decent amplifier or am used to buying earbuds at that price range, 


vapman said:


> And then you get the Mojito in its box with 2 pairs of foams, the cables, and the earbuds themselves (which have foam cutouts but were still bouncing around inside the box despite that).


 
 they come with cables? aliexpress doesn't show any and thought that you have you to buy them separately...


----------



## Townyj

Has anyone tried the Boarseman MX98s? How does it compare to the RX-1 and Tomahawk. Looking at one more pair of buds... maybe two  haha.


----------



## kurtextrem

just ordered the HCK TP1 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-HCK-TP1-High-Impedance-150-ohms-Flat-Head-Plug-Earbud-Earphone-HCK-Custom-High-Impedance/32654824902.html
  
 at 30% off I couldn't resist. Cygnus shell, 8-25kHZ freq response let's see 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But it seems like they only had one black....


----------



## vapman

luedriver said:


> I am really tempted by the seahf smart 1.0 even though I am waiting for fidelio s1, ty hi-z32, auglamor rx-1 and some she3580's in the mail, worst yet than I don't have a decent amplifier or am used to buying earbuds at that price range,
> they come with cables? aliexpress doesn't show any and thought that you have you to buy them separately...




The two cables were the only thing that made the price acceptable to me. If they don't come with cables anymore I simply CAN NOT rec the Mojito anymore even if they sound like two hundred bucks.

Sorry but if they look like they were assembled by beginners AND don't even come with cables anymore then forget them. I would not buy them again, nice as they sounded.


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> The two cables were the only thing that made the price acceptable to me. If they don't come with cables anymore I simply CAN NOT rec the Mojito anymore even if they sound like two hundred bucks.
> 
> Sorry but if they look like they were assembled by beginners AND don't even come with cables anymore then forget them. I would not buy them again, nice as they sounded.




The thicker Mojito cable is somewhat useless to me... The stiffness means that anytime I move my head, the earbuds get pulled out.


----------



## vapman

kinetic758 said:


> The thicker Mojito cable is somewhat useless to me... The stiffness means that anytime I move my head, the earbuds get pulled out.


 

 How long ago did you get yours and did you get two cables?
  
 I was one of the first to order and I got a thick white cable (great, and made it easy to find which earbuds were the mojitos as I hang them off a headphone rack), but also pulled them out whenever i moved my head) and a thin braided black cable (what I eventually used them with).
  
 The only way I could get them from falling out was actually to use an IEM cable with over the ear memory wire hooks, kind of like the "alternate fit" for the Auglamours, but even then it was a little awkward.
  
 Anyway my point is if they still come with two cables (they were very nice, at least the two I had) then it's still a good deal, but if they're not selling them with cables anymore they better drop the price to what the Zen 2 costs and even then i'd expect at least a crappy cable to be included,
  


kurtextrem said:


> just ordered the HCK TP1 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-HCK-TP1-High-Impedance-150-ohms-Flat-Head-Plug-Earbud-Earphone-HCK-Custom-High-Impedance/32654824902.html
> 
> at 30% off I couldn't resist. Cygnus shell, 8-25kHZ freq response let's see
> 
> ...


 
  
 Eagerly awaiting your impressions as you know I'm a sucker for anything with sub 15hz response, definitely let us know how it is, i'm still waiting on the T-Musics!


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> How long ago did you get yours and did you get two cables?
> 
> I was one of the first to order and I got a thick white cable (great, and made it easy to find which earbuds were the mojitos as I hang them off a headphone rack), but also pulled them out whenever i moved my head) and a thin braided black cable (what I eventually used them with).
> 
> ...




Ordered my Mojitos a few weeks ago and got the two cables you mentioned (although I guess they changed the white sleeve to a black one). I'm using the much lighter and flexible braided cable. I suspect the thicker cable will sit in the box indefinitely, since I don't really want to bother with ear hooks. Thanks for the tip though.


----------



## vapman

kinetic758 said:


> Ordered my Mojitos a few weeks ago and got the two cables you mentioned (although I guess they changed the white sleeve to a black one). I'm using the much lighter and flexible braided cable. I suspect the thicker cable will sit in the box indefinitely, since I don't really want to bother with ear hooks. Thanks for the tip though.


 

 The braided cable is the way to go IMO. I liked the thicker cable so much more (not for sound reasons, they sounded identical as far as I could tell) but yeah mine was also pretty much restricted to sitting in the box cause they were simply too impractical.
  
 I really really hope they still ship with two cables and certain retailers are failing to mention as such because if they sold them without cables now that'd be a ripoff IMO.


----------



## golov17

RX-1 without foams have a light sound with delicious sweet mids, like it


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> RX-1 without foams have a light sound with delicious sweet mids, like it


 
 I got my Hiegi foam yesterday and using them with Hiegi donut


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> I got my Hiegi foam yesterday and using them with Hiegi donut


This earbuds made for mids lovers, IMHO


----------



## leobigfield

golov17 said:


> This earbuds made for mids lovers, IMHO




Please say that they have liquid mids


----------



## vapman

leobigfield said:


> Please say that they have liquid mids


 
 I will step in for golov here and say they sure as heck do.
  
 I mean they do on lossy music but try playing some lossless through them and get ready to both have your mind blown and be super angry you ever spend more than $20 on earbuds.


----------



## audio123

can i ask if rx-1 sounds good with ve donut?


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> can i ask if rx-1 sounds good with ve donut?


made for foamless using?


----------



## golov17

a lot of accessories


----------



## fairx

Oh man I hope mine came in tomorrow. Tonight thry transit to closest post centre. 

That's a lot of accessories. I thought the promo page just for show


----------



## vapman

I love my development of mobile phone wooden pallet. Does a nice job of being a phone stand too.


----------



## Tomasz2D

kinetic758 said:


> Curious.. For those who currently have the MX985, how it compares to the RX-1 when you get them!


 
 MX985 - better bass extention, better treble extention, more engaging, wider and deeper scene reproduction, more microdetails. Vocals and acoustic instruments sound truer.
 RX-1 - more congested and nearer soundstage, more forward vocals/mids.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

AUGLAMOUR RX-1 UNBOXING PICTURES IS HERE BOYS AND GIRLS!!!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 (Bought directly from official Auglamour Taobao store)
  

 Thick cardboard box.
  

 Nicely wrapped.
  

 The RX-1 and an envelope.
  

 What was inside the envelop.
 A card
 A mini disc
 Warranty form
  

 Mini disc (used) (free gift)
  

 All the included accessories.
  
  
 I must say, I'll be damned that I only paid RMB149 for these. Haven't listen to them yet as was busy sacrificing the SeaHF 320 V2. Once I sterilize everything with rubbing alcohol, I will give them a go. The wooden phone stand is a bloody win in my book. Wish more mnufactures would pack their products like the RX-1.


----------



## Tympan

Has anyone noticed the silicone bands coming with RX1 smell like super glue mixed with God knows what? My first impression of RX1 was a big Head rush!..


----------



## AudioNewbi3

On the other end of the spectrum, the SeaHF 320OHM V2 which I mistakenly destroyed by changing amp gain on the go was finally able to be put to good use.
  

 Judging by the pins, I think we know where this cable is headed for..................yup my Mojito's. Rather than letting them bite the dust.
  

 After a few hours of hard work, I think I deserve a bottle of beer no?
 Btw, for those of you who are wondering about the polarity of the Mojito's kindly check the Blue note in the image.
  
 Basically, Mojito cable is supposed to be fitted in the following order:
 L & R indication on the plug facing _*OUTWARDS *_there is no left or right determined for the Mojito's themselves.
 Rather they are determined by the *CABLES.*
 The first pin for both R and L is Ground, where as the second pin is the channel pins (WHEN R & L is facing outwards in ====> direction!!!!)
  
 EDIT: Yup in my haste I have forgotten to use the provided gold cover for the TF-10 0.75mm pins, thus heat shrink FTW!!!! Looks ghetto as hell though....
STIFFER CABLE provided with the MOJITO is supposedly know as "French Braided Orchestral" cable, which is good for instruments.
SOFT CABLE provided with the MOJITO is Furukawa OFC Copper Cable, and is supposedly good for vocals.
 (Source: Teiba Baidu of Rose Technology)


----------



## haiku

audionewbi3 said:


> AUGLAMOUR RX-1 UNBOXING PICTURES IS HERE BOYS AND GIRLS!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I´ll soon start listening to the Seahf Smart 2.0, too. Let´s see if we also agree about the sound of this one!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

haiku said:


> I´ll soon start listening to the Seahf Smart 2.0, too. Let´s see if we also agree about the sound of this one!


 
 To me, in my memory, the V2 sound more balance than the v1, bass is sightly toned down, thus giving me a more "balanced" impression with good detail. Overall still quite a smooth sounding earbud though. 
  
 Based on my memory before it was destroyed.......


----------



## haiku

audionewbi3 said:


> To me, in my memory, the V2 sound more balance than the v1, bass is sightly toned down, thus giving me a more "balanced" impression with good detail. Overall still quite a smooth sounding earbud though.
> 
> Based on my memory before it was destroyed.......


 

 I have to say, that the kind of "euphonic sound" of the Smart 1.0 triggers memories from the past, when I listened to good old tube amps.....


----------



## vapman

Hmm, the amazon ones didn't include the cardboard box or letter, just the clear plastic case..... I have one coming from Aliexpress anyway.


----------



## jant71

leobigfield said:


> Please say that they have liquid mids


 
  
  


golov17 said:


> This earbuds made for mids lovers, IMHO


 
  
 Sounds good. Just bought an ATH-Sport3 cause they are for podcasts and sports and bad weather but they are said to have sweet mids in some reviews. They really have nicer mids and even better bass than the E40 so they will replace them. Love the mids and presentation with my music and not just podcasts or radio. Hope the RX-1 follows suit. My RX-1 is now updated to shipping today but not yet shipped. First "shipping soon", then "preparing for shipment", then "shipping soon", then "shipping today"...ugh! Ship them already.


----------



## kinetic758

tomasz2d said:


> MX985 - better bass extention, better treble extention, more engaging, wider and deeper scene reproduction, more microdetails. Vocals and acoustic instruments sound truer.
> RX-1 - more congested and nearer soundstage, more forward vocals/mids.


 
  
 Thanks for this.  MX985 is still on my radar...


----------



## kinetic758

audionewbi3 said:


> On the other end of the spectrum, the SeaHF 320OHM V2 which I mistakenly destroyed by changing amp gain on the go was finally able to be put to good use.
> 
> 
> Judging by the pins, I think we know where this cable is headed for..................yup my Mojito's. Rather than letting them bite the dust.
> ...


 
  
 Very cool!  Somewhat related question: do you find that the male/female pin connectors do not completely seat flush with each other?  In other words, on one of my Mojito's, I see a bit of the gold male connector (a very TINY amount, but noticeable if you look closely).


----------



## fairx

audionewbi3 said:


> AUGLAMOUR RX-1 UNBOXING PICTURES IS HERE BOYS AND GIRLS!!!!!
> (Bought directly from official Auglamour Taobao store)
> 
> 
> ...



Soooo jelly..! Mine still in Ipoh!

BTW Is that teacher or ano natsu?
 :wink_face:


----------



## AudioNewbi3

haiku said:


> I have to say, that the kind of "euphonic sound" of the Smart 1.0 triggers memories from the past, when I listened to good old tube amps.....


 
  
 Yup, that is why I would describe them as very analogue sounding. Though prior to listening to the V1's I thought V2 was also analogue sounding. But after listening to the V1's, I feel that the V2 has lost some of the magic in exchange for a more balanced sound-signature. 
  


vapman said:


> Hmm, the amazon ones didn't include the cardboard box or letter, just the clear plastic case..... I have one coming from Aliexpress anyway.


 
 That is quite interesting.....Maybe they wanted to reduce the size of the package? Or sell it at a lower price maybe? (I mean you did get them cheaper than me).
   
 Quote:


kinetic758 said:


> Very cool!  Somewhat related question: do you find that the male/female pin connectors do not completely seat flush with each other?  In other words, on one of my Mojito's, I see a bit of the gold male connector (a very TINY amount, but noticeable if you look closely).


 
 On the stock connectors, yup, that is very normal.
 However, the cable which I just created from the wire of the v2 with the pins (UE TF-10 0.75mm) which I bought from Taobao sits flush with the Mojitos, in that they also provide an indentation for receiving the Mojito's "tip" at the connectors.
  


fairx said:


> Soooo jelly..! Mine still in Ipoh!
> 
> BTW Is that teacher or ano natsu?


 
 Boleh bah, sabar kawan.
  
 That is Ano Natsu, but also same created by the same person who made Onegai/Please series (Onegai Teacher, Onegai Twins)


----------



## Danneq

Got my RX1 from Ali express and there was only the clear plastic case. Not that I'm complaining though. Really a bargain for just $20 in total!


----------



## vapman

Must be a special for ordering directly from Auglamour or something. Which is too bad because I couldn't figure out their Taobao site! but they are darn good earbuds and I'm enjoying them with Hiegi donuts... really absurdly good for 20 bucks.


----------



## SuperMAG

how are they compared to monk + and ty hz 32.
  
 i mean soundstage, bass, high and clarity wise.


----------



## Arvan

vapman said:


> Must be a special for ordering directly from Auglamour or something. Which is too bad because I couldn't figure out their Taobao site! but they are darn good earbuds and I'm enjoying them with Hiegi donuts... really absurdly good for 20 bucks.


 
 Can´t wait to get them! Hype is real!


----------



## vapman

Has amyone expeirenced very brief cut out wtih the RX-1 speciially near the 3.5mm connector?
  
 would be a shame to recable them but could make em not hardwire posssible.


----------



## fairx

vapman said:


> Has amyone expeirenced very brief cut out wtih the RX-1 speciially near the 3.5mm connector?
> 
> would be a shame to recable them but could make em not hardwire posssible.


 
 manufacturing defect? can replicate the problem? or is it random?


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Has amyone expeirenced very brief cut out wtih the RX-1 speciially near the 3.5mm connector?
> 
> would be a shame to recable them but could make em not hardwire posssible.


about what?


----------



## raze94

My concern in purchasing the RX-1's blindly was how it would compare to the Monk+. I can confidently say the RX-1's  have a more accurate tone and will be replacing my Monk+'s as my daily drivers. The RX-1's are easier to drive and on my Fiio X5II on high gain I reach comfortable listening levels at about 55. With the Monk+ I have to put the volume up to 75 to hit that same sweet spot. The Monk+'s has a slightly wider soundstage but started to sound a bit nasal after comparing them to the RX-1's. Bass on the RX-1's are more pronounced, vocals more forward, and highs are more detailed. I found the best sound on the RX-1's using the provided full covered pads. Without the pads they are a tad bright and slightly metallic sounding. The donut pads tamed the metallic sound  but I was getting a weird shrilly sound on the highs. At 3x the price of the Monk+ the RX-1 is worth its asking price. The inclusions alone are insane!


----------



## music4mhell

Mojito has better synergy with Monk+ foams compare to Hiegi Foams


----------



## ld100

Red Monks are back on Massdrop...


----------



## Forty6

ld100 said:


> Red Monks are back on Massdrop...




Wow thanks for sharing ! 

Looking at the reds sure entice my taste buds . Couldn't help by placing 2 on order


----------



## kinetic758

music4mhell said:


> Mojito has better synergy with Monk+ foams compare to Hiegi Foams


 
  
 I actually had to use double Monk+ foams on my Mojito... treble sounded too hot without the extra foam for my tastes!  I wonder if 2 Monk+ foams = 1 Hiegi.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

music4mhell said:


> Mojito has better synergy with Monk+ foams compare to Hiegi Foams


 
  
 Agreed, they are match very very well. 


kinetic758 said:


> I actually had to use double Monk+ foams on my Mojito... treble sounded too hot without the extra foam for my tastes!  I wonder if 2 Monk+ foams = 1 Hiegi.


 
 Actually, I find that with extra foams, the details of the Mojito will be reduced, thus I only use Monk+ Foams. Maybe I am treble head


----------



## kinetic758

audionewbi3 said:


> Agreed, they are match very very well.
> Actually, I find that with extra foams, the details of the Mojito will be reduced, thus I only use Monk+ Foams. Maybe I am treble head


 
  
 I've actually thought about taking one of the foams off.  The Mojito's have since toned down in the treble since I first got them (either that or I've gotten used to it).  I do miss that extra bit of air that was somewhat reduced when I added the extra foam.


----------



## satansmutt

Golov17 made me do it!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  
  
 Typical postman delivers everything together now I don't know which toy to play with first


----------



## vapman

fairx said:


> manufacturing defect? can replicate the problem? or is it random?


 
  


golov17 said:


> about what?


 

 Still figuring it if its my fault or RX-1 fault, but seems to be near the 3.5mm plug, and not easily replicatable.


----------



## vapman

Tempted to get more Red Monk.... but i already have 2! and my 2 darths aren't even here yet...


----------



## boblauer

vapman said:


> Tempted to get more Red Monk.... but i already have 2! and my 2 darths aren't even here yet...


 
 I grabbed 3 pairs, trying to spread the news but pretty sure the wifey won't notice any difference. She just shrugs when I mention with great enthusiasm about my latest purchases.


----------



## Cinder

boblauer said:


> I grabbed 3 pairs, trying to spread the news but pretty sure the wifey won't notice any difference. She just shrugs when I mention with great enthusiasm about my latest purchases.


 
  
 This. I try and show people how great these new headphones are and they are just like "yeah... cool?".


----------



## MRK1

ClieOS please remove the Jiushao E300 from your list, they sound like $0.99 bottom of the bargain bin supermarket garbage. It's not even a matter of sound signature preference, these are literally garbage, sticking a pair of monk in a bean can, stringing this bean can to another and then listening to the music through the can would probably sound better than listening directly to these, the build quality would probably be better as well.


----------



## vapman

mrk1 said:


> ClieOS please remove the Jiushao E300 from your list, they sound like $0.99 bottom of the bargain bin supermarket garbage. It's not even a matter of sound signature preference, these are literally garbage, sticking a pair of monk in a bean can, stringing this bean can to another and then listening to the music through the can would probably sound better than listening directly to these, the build quality would probably be better as well.


 

 It's an opinion post for a reason. Nothing to stop you from making the MRK1 Grand List of Earbud Rankings.


----------



## MRK1

vapman said:


> It's an opinion post for a reason. Nothing to stop you from making the MRK1 Grand List of Earbud Rankings.


 

 It sure is but there's no way anyone is going to claim these sound better than the Monk, let alone any other pair of earbuds. These are by far the worst earbuds I have at the moment.
  
 Here's my grand list by the way:
  

VE Monk
Baldoor E100
AKG K319
Sennheiser MX880
Sennheiser MX580
AKG Y15
Apple Earpods
Ancient Apple earbuds
Tin can telephone
Jiushao E300
  
 You seem to not realize how influential is a thread like this to random buyers. People will see these cheap earbuds listed nearly to the top of the list and buy them without realizing they're buying an earbud that sounds so bad it distorts anything you play through them, with no soundstage, no bass, muddy mids and shrill highs. And the build quality is terrible as well. These are not worth more than $0.99.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

mrk1 said:


> It sure is but there's no way anyone is going to claim these sound better than the Monk, let alone any other pair of earbuds. These are by far the worst earbuds I have at the moment.
> 
> Here's my grand list by the way:
> 
> You seem to not realize how influential is a thread like this to random buyers. People will see these cheap earbuds listed nearly to the top of the list and buy them without realizing they're buying an earbud that sounds so bad it distorts anything you play through them, with no soundstage, no bass, muddy mids and shrill highs. And the build quality is terrible as well. These are not worth more than $0.99.


 
  
@MRK1, while I have not personally tried the Jiushao E300, I will say that most of us that post in this thread take our Earbuds VERY seriously.  So if someone took the time to say how the Jiushao E300 is a good sounding product, I am sure they meant it.  I know there are a few people throughout this thread that like those earbuds.

 That said, I am not denying that your pair sounds as bad to you as you are saying.  There could be many factors.  One: maybe it is just a lemon.  Two: maybe they changed the drivers:  Three:  Maybe it is a fake (though I doubt that one). 
  
 I just don't think anyone is trying to fool you or say things they don't believe to be true.
  
 --


----------



## vapman

mrk1 said:


> You seem to not realize how influential is a thread like this to random buyers. People will see these cheap earbuds listed nearly to the top of the list and buy them without realizing they're buying an earbud that sounds so bad it distorts anything you play through them, with no soundstage, no bass, muddy mids and shrill highs. And the build quality is terrible as well. These are not worth more than $0.99.


 
 Well, here's two things.
  
 One, you said the (edit: JiuShao) was worse than your preferred earbud, and 100% of nobody is disagreeing with that. Some may have differing opinions, sure, but literally nobody is telling you that you are wrong, if you look to see.
  
 Two, you posted your own list of "least favorite buds", which gives you credibility.
  
 Being passive aggressive about is a sure fire way to make anyone _not_ listen to you.
  
 Cheers,
  
 (Edited because I read you list backwards)


----------



## audio123

mrk1 said:


> It sure is but there's no way anyone is going to claim these sound better than the Monk, let alone any other pair of earbuds. These are by far the worst earbuds I have at the moment.
> 
> Here's my grand list by the way:
> 
> ...


no blox/mojito/cygnus/rx1


----------



## golov17

still happy with Jiushao e300, listening trance music, more than Jiushao e600. Fan V-shaped sig 
No problem


----------



## ezekiel77

Interested in the Mojito especially the airiness and soundstage but would it be too thin/analytical for modern genres? Is this a case of finding the right amp like for HD800?
  
 I used to like a warm, full sound but the HD800 has taught me a lot about bass texture which is also very addictive. I will be pairing Mojito with Mojo or QP1R whichever sounds better.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Now I want to buy the *Jiushao e300* and hear it for myself.
  
  
  
 BTW, did anyone get their *T-Music DIY *Earbuds yet? 

 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/T-Music-Professional-DIY-HiFi-Headphone-Cable/32686800517.html
  
  
 Mine should be here in a few days.
  
 --


----------



## fairx

mrk1 said:


> It sure is but there's no way anyone is going to claim these sound better than the Monk, let alone any other pair of earbuds. These are by far the worst earbuds I have at the moment.
> 
> Here's my grand list by the way:
> 
> ...


Come on man. The big guy already move the rank list to independent link outside head fi. Because sometime people shoot him for the rank, he even mentioned it (trust your own ear). it's his list. I personally won't risk him stop the rank altogether. I can't afford to buy all earbud on the market to find hidden gems. 

IMHO 
Cheers

OH BTW my rx-1 will arrive today


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> Now I want to buy the *Jiushao e300* and hear it for myself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


about, have already left the sorting, received today or tomorrow!


----------



## kinetic758

ezekiel77 said:


> Interested in the Mojito especially the airiness and soundstage but would it be too thin/analytical for modern genres? Is this a case of finding the right amp like for HD800?
> 
> I used to like a warm, full sound but the HD800 has taught me a lot about bass texture which is also very addictive. I will be pairing Mojito with Mojo or QP1R whichever sounds better.




I've only had the Mojito for a week, but I (and a few others out there) are happy with how it sounds playing modern genres. Now I wouldn't call the sound warm, and from what I've read about the HD800, I would say he Mojito is more in line with that kind of sound (extended, almost pronounced treble, flat mids, flat bass, 3D soundstage). 

I'm happy with it so far, with the exception of the quality control (strictly cosmetic) which seems rather lacking for the price.


----------



## ezekiel77

kinetic758 said:


> I've only had the Mojito for a week, but I (and a few others out there) are happy with how it sounds playing modern genres. Now I wouldn't call the sound warm, and from what I've read about the HD800, I would say he Mojito is more in line with that kind of sound (extended, almost pronounced treble, flat mids, flat bass, 3D soundstage).
> 
> I'm happy with it so far, with the exception of the quality control (strictly cosmetic) which seems rather lacking for the price.


 
  
 Thanks for that, appreciated.
  
 Sounds like the Mojito and RX-1 will be complementary sigs. Reason to get both. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
@fairx you're from Ipoh? Gimme!


----------



## fairx

arrived!!


----------



## fairx

ezekiel77 said:


> Thanks for that, appreciated.
> 
> Sounds like the Mojito and RX-1 will be complementary sigs. Reason to get both.
> 
> ...




Haha me in kuala kangsar. Come le visit maybe can try ur (huge) collection lol.


----------



## Joy Boy

mrk1 said:


> ClieOS please remove the Jiushao E300 from your list, they sound like $0.99 bottom of the bargain bin supermarket garbage. It's not even a matter of sound signature preference, these are literally garbage, sticking a pair of monk in a bean can, stringing this bean can to another and then listening to the music through the can would probably sound better than listening directly to these, the build quality would probably be better as well.



May be you got a defect one?
Because jiushao e300 is one of my best budget champion. I really mean it.
Price to performance is on monk level. Not my top 10 generally, but certainly on my top 10 low-budget bud together with monk, sabia, suvov, vido, etc.
Even i will undoubtedly choose e300 than e600.
But yeah, sound is all about personal taste. May be it's just not the sound you've searched for. Or may be you got a defect one. Who knows


----------



## vapman

IMO he should contact the supplier and ask for a replacement.. If he still doesn't like it, that is fine too, at least we would know if it was or was not defective.


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> IMO he should contact the supplier and ask for a replacement.. If he still doesn't like it, that is fine too, at least we would know if it was or was not defective.



Yeah, AFAIK all jiushao product have 1 year warranty. Try to claim it and if you still dont like it, it's just not "your sound"


----------



## fairx

after 1 hour or so listening to RX-1 (full foam) my first impression OOTB, very high res, microdetails, lush mid no sibilant
  
 BUT...big hairy but..
 kick bass are too weak for my taste.. tried rubber rings + foam, sound come distant.. back to original foam
  
 BUT again.. a lift of bass boost (if you have any) will fix it !  IMHO
  
*喜び !! **しょくん..!*
  
 back to work, I've been neglecting my work for a while now,..


----------



## vapman

fairx said:


> after 1 hour or so listening to RX-1 (full foam) my first impression OOTB, very high res, microdetails, lush mid no sibilant
> 
> BUT...big hairy but..
> kick bass are too weak for my taste.. tried rubber rings + foam, sound come distant.. back to original foam
> ...


 

 i have found proprerly fitting them (usually over the ear) allows for that "max bass feeling" as if yo were pushing the earbuds into your ears.


----------



## Tomasz2D

supermag said:


> how are they compared to monk + and ty hz 32.


 
 Do you mean RX-1 ?


----------



## fairx

vapman said:


> i have found proprerly fitting them (usually over the ear) allows for that "max bass feeling" as if yo were pushing the earbuds into your ears.


 
 yes over ear give slight better bass
  
 BTW the one issue you mention before, It happened to me (I think) upon first insertion I wiggle the plug a little bit while playing ,music and it gave crackling noise in earphone, I twist it open and see if something wrong with the connector inside, but everything seems solid, so I twist it back to fasten it and after that no more crackling noise


----------



## Saoshyant

For me on initial listening, RX-1 didn't have audio in left driver, but a moment's fiddling fixed it, and can't reproduce issue.


----------



## anticute

fairx said:


> yes over ear give slight better bass
> 
> BTW the one issue you mention before, It happened to me (I think) upon first insertion I wiggle the plug a little bit while playing ,music and it gave crackling noise in earphone, I twist it open and see if something wrong with the connector inside, but everything seems solid, so I twist it back to fasten it and after that no more crackling noise


 

 I had this issue with my TY Hi-Z HP32. It was really weird - when I wiggled the plug (or the cable closest to the plug, rather) it crackled, so I was trying to see in what positions it did that. After a bit of wiggling and taking it out a few times the crackling stopped. I have no idea what so ever how or why it stopped, according to my limited knowledge, crackling/bad contact should get, if anything, worse.
  
 However, this solved the problem for some unexplicable reason, and it hasn't come back. Does anyone have a theory as to why, 'cause it kind of bugs me that I don't get how this could happen.


----------



## luedriver

just got my ty hi-z hp32 from post depo, was using my 3 year old earpods on the way, actually thought I was going to get my she3580 but then a white box appeared and reminded me that "life is like a box of earphone" 
  
 on the bus they I had to up the volume to 8/16 on my iphone sometimes more, I really liked how electronic music sounded with these, probably because I was listening to old earpods
  
 I was worried that they might sound identical to my monk plus, I don't think so, even though I haven't A/B them yet, listening to them, with donut foam, they seem a little bit bright, (or that could be the electronic music, I am listening to), they seem to have lower bass than my old earpods, which have a bump in the mid-bass
  
 they also have a nice soundstage, on some songs I feel as if the sound is coming from outside the earphone, not as good as my shp9500, but half way decent


----------



## luedriver

anticute said:


> I had this issue with my TY Hi-Z HP32. It was really weird - when I wiggled the plug (or the cable closest to the plug, rather) it crackled, so I was trying to see in what positions it did that. After a bit of wiggling and taking it out a few times the crackling stopped. I have no idea what so ever how or why it stopped, according to my limited knowledge, crackling/bad contact should get, if anything, worse.
> 
> However, this solved the problem for some unexplicable reason, and it hasn't come back. Does anyone have a theory as to why, 'cause it kind of bugs me that I don't get how this could happen.


 
 this also happened first time I plugged them in my iphone, the right side crackled a bit when twisting the jack inside the phone, was worried that it always happen every time my iphone would move in my pocket, but it didn't happen again even as I was listening to them walking home


----------



## AudioNewbi3

kinetic758 said:


> I've actually thought about taking one of the foams off.  The Mojito's have since toned down in the treble since I first got them (either that or I've gotten used to it).  I do miss that extra bit of air that was somewhat reduced when I added the extra foam.


 
 You will get use to the sound signature soon enough mate. Then, you might face the situation on devoting yourself 100% to the Mojito and never listening to other buds hahaha.
  


mrk1 said:


> ClieOS please remove the Jiushao E300 from your list, they sound like $0.99 bottom of the bargain bin supermarket garbage. It's not even a matter of sound signature preference, these are literally garbage, sticking a pair of monk in a bean can, stringing this bean can to another and then listening to the music through the can would probably sound better than listening directly to these, the build quality would probably be better as well.


 
 Hmm, may I kindly know, have you ever considered your own preferred sound signature before following his list?
 It must be stressed that the list is created based on ClieOS's own personal preference and listening sound signature, thus you should take it with a grain of salt (in fact the list comes with a disclaimer too). Most important of all is to identify your own listening preference BEFORE jumping to the list.
  


ezekiel77 said:


> Interested in the Mojito especially the airiness and soundstage but would it be too thin/analytical for modern genres? Is this a case of finding the right amp like for HD800?
> 
> I used to like a warm, full sound but the HD800 has taught me a lot about bass texture which is also very addictive. I will be pairing Mojito with Mojo or QP1R whichever sounds better.


 
 May I kindly know what do you mean by modern genres?
 I only use my Mojito's for orchestral, instrumental, classical, and very little vocals. This is because I find that mids would sound ever so slightly recessed (coupled with the vast air and soundstage), and listeners would be separated from the center piece of the music, which are the vocals


----------



## oopeteroo

This is bad......i ordered 3x rx-1 because I couldn't pick color T_T


----------



## haiku

Yesterday, I started listening to the Seahf Smart 2.0 320 Ohm. Here some first impressions.
  
 This is the most "digital" sounding earbud, but in a good way. Back in the days of 16bit Burr Brown Dacs, when I listened to CD´s, I loved my Linn Karik/Numerik Combo, but also loved the sound of my Naim dealer´s totl CDS2 player, which was way too expensive for me. What I loved about both cd players, was their outstanding mids and musicality. When I listened to my CD´s, everything just sounded great with them. That´s why I ended up listening more to cd´s, even though with the Linn LP12 full specced I had a totl vinyl player, too. 
 The Smart 2.0 remind me of that time, because they also have those wonderful mids and brilliant and sparkly highs, which I loved then. Still digital sounding, but soooo pleasing to my ears. Their sound is also tighter than the Smart 1.0, with clear edges around the vocals and instruments, which gives the music a much clearer and more dynamic sound. The bass is punchier, and the vocals get more spotlight. Pace and Rhythm are outstanding. These together with the LD-3.0 320 Ohm are the earbuds, with which I have to be the least "picky" about what music I want to hear. The Smart 1.0 are the most unpredictable, when it comes to deciding, which album to listen to next.
 I still have to hear the LD-3.0 400Ohm, but right now, my Seahf Ranking List would look like this
  
 1. Smart 2.0 320 Ohm
 2. LD-3.0 320 Ohm
 3. Smart 1.0 320 Ohm
 4. LD-3.0 150 Ohm
 5. LD-4.0 400 Ohm


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> Yesterday, I started listening to the Seahf Smart 2.0 320 Ohm. Here some first impressions.
> 
> This is the most "digital" sounding earbud, but in a good way. Back in the days of 16bit Burr Brown Dacs, when I listened to CD´s, I loved my Linn Karik/Numerik Combo, but also loved the sound of my Naim dealer´s totl CDS2 player, which was way too expensive for me. What I loved about both cd players, was their outstanding musicality. When I listened to my CD´s, everything just sounded great with them. That´s why I ended up listening more to cd´s, even though with the Linn LP12 full specced I had a totl vinyl player, too.
> The Smart 2.0 remind me of that time, because they also have those brilliant and sparkly highs, which I loved then. Still digital sounding, but soooo pleasing to my ears. Their sound is also tighter than the Smart 1.0, with clear edges around the vocals and instruments, which gives the music a much clearer and more dynamic sound. The bass is punchier, and the vocals get more spotlight. These together with the LD-3.0 320 Ohm are the earbuds, with which I have to be the least "picky" about what music I want to hear. The Smart 1.0 are the most unpredictable, when it comes to deciding, which album to listen to next.
> ...


 
 Link for Smart 2.0 320 Ohm Please !


----------



## haiku

music4mhell said:


> Link for Smart 2.0 320 Ohm Please !


 

 Here you go
  
 http://www.taobaocart.com/Product/525608265905/HIFI-level%20seahf%20smart%20320ohm%20high%20resistance%20flat%20plug%20headphones


----------



## AudioNewbi3

oopeteroo said:


> This is bad......i ordered 3x rx-1 because I couldn't pick color T_T


 
 Such is the pitfall of this hobby hahaha!
  


haiku said:


> Yesterday, I started listening to the Seahf Smart 2.0 320 Ohm. Here some first impressions.
> 
> This is the most "digital" sounding earbud, but in a good way. Back in the days of 16bit Burr Brown Dacs, when I listened to CD´s, I loved my Linn Karik/Numerik Combo, but also loved the sound of my Naim dealer´s totl CDS2 player, which was way too expensive for me. What I loved about both cd players, was their outstanding mids and musicality. When I listened to my CD´s, everything just sounded great with them. That´s why I ended up listening more to cd´s, even though with the Linn LP12 full specced I had a totl vinyl player, too.
> The Smart 2.0 remind me of that time, because they also have those wonderful mids and brilliant and sparkly highs, which I loved then. Still digital sounding, but soooo pleasing to my ears. Their sound is also tighter than the Smart 1.0, with clear edges around the vocals and instruments, which gives the music a much clearer and more dynamic sound. The bass is punchier, and the vocals get more spotlight. These together with the LD-3.0 320 Ohm are the earbuds, with which I have to be the least "picky" about what music I want to hear. The Smart 1.0 are the most unpredictable, when it comes to deciding, which album to listen to next.
> ...


 
 SeaHF Master!


----------



## haiku

audionewbi3 said:


> SeaHF Master!


 
 Hehe...


----------



## Tomasz2D

haiku said:


> 3. Smart 1.0 320 Ohm


 
 Is it white or black cable version? White cable version is allegedly made from the same parts as Zen 1.0.


----------



## audio123

just received ag rx1.
 short impressions:
 large soundstage, prominent mids, smooth treble.
 10/10 earbud for the price!


----------



## haiku

tomasz2d said:


> Is it white or black cable version? White cable version is allegedly made from the same parts as Zen 1.0.


 

 White cable.


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Link for Smart 2.0 320 Ohm Please !
> ...


 
 It's not available on Aliexpress ?


----------



## haiku

music4mhell said:


> It's not available on Aliexpress ?


 

 Nope.


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > It's not available on Aliexpress ?
> ...


 
 then i wil pass


----------



## jrazmar

haiku said:


> Here you go
> 
> http://www.taobaocart.com/Product/525608265905/HIFI-level%20seahf%20smart%20320ohm%20high%20resistance%20flat%20plug%20headphones


 
  
 no free shipping to my country?! this is way too expensive. it better sounds that good for the price.


----------



## audio123

really shocked at the sound of ag rx-1 the best earbud i have ever tried.


----------



## Danneq

AuGlamor RX1 is great for its price. Wonderfully smooth mids and vocals sound great. But they are a bit too mid centric for my taste. Monk+ and TY Hi-Z HP32 are more balanced sounding (i.e. no overwhelming focus on either lows, mids or highs).


----------



## audio123

danneq said:


> AuGlamor RX1 is great for its price. Wonderfully smooth mids and vocals sound great. But they are a bit too mid centric for my taste. Monk+ and TY Hi-Z HP32 are more balanced sounding (i.e. no overwhelming focus on either lows, mids or highs).


 

 is rx1 the most mid centric earbud u have ever tried? for me yes


----------



## haiku

jrazmar said:


> no free shipping to my country?! this is way too expensive. it better sounds that good for the price.


 

 If you´re thinking about ordering Seahf, I´d start with the LD-3.0 150 Ohm. It´s the cheapest, most who listened to it like it, and you get it on AE.


----------



## jrazmar

I am deciding between getting LD-3.0 or LD-4.0 Seahf 400ohm. Anybody has both and can compare? Do either of these require amping to sound that good? Also if someone can compare, what's the difference in sound between the 320 and 400?
  
 The RX-1 is still on its way. Really intrigued about all the comments about it sounding too good for the price.
 The Edimun V3 has arrived in my local post office and I will get it tomorrow. I wonder why not too many people are talking about it anymore. Or maybe not too many people have it.
  
 My current favorite is the Cygnus which makes the VE Zen 2.0 stay where it is right now. What I like about the Cygnus over the Zen 2 is its way easier to drive, has excellent vocals and non-fatiguing mids, and the bass impact is just wonderful. The Zen used to be my daily driver but the fact that I cannot wear it with foams makes it falls easily. It needs more power than Cygnus to sound its best and I don't have an amp to test if using one really makes a big difference in SQ. Although the Zen is more refined and defined than the Cygnus, the overall ambiance and sound that the Cygnus creates is more appealing to my ears.


----------



## fairx

So guys does does burn have any affect / change rx1?


----------



## audio123

jrazmar said:


> I am deciding between getting LD-3.0 or LD-4.0 Seahf 400ohm. Anybody has both and can compare? Do either of these require amping to sound that good? Also if someone can compare, what's the difference in sound between the 320 and 400?
> 
> The RX-1 is still on its way. Really intrigued about all the comments about it sounding too good for the price.
> The Edimun V3 has arrived in my local post office and I will get it tomorrow. I wonder why not too many people are talking about it anymore. Or maybe not too many people have it.
> ...


rx1 wins zen for me  i have yet to try blox tm7 though


----------



## luedriver

haiku said:


> If you´re thinking about ordering Seahf, I´d start with the LD-3.0 150 Ohm. It´s the cheapest, most who listened to it like it, and you get it on AE.


 
 how does it differ to the ty hi-z hp150?
  
 and/or how is seahf and ty hi-z different companies?


----------



## haiku

luedriver said:


> how does it differ to the ty hi-z hp150?
> 
> and/or how is seahf and ty hi-z different companies?


 

 I read they have different sound signatures. Never heard ty hi-z myself.


----------



## SuperMAG

tomasz2d said:


> Do you mean RX-1 ?


 
 yes.


----------



## Danneq

audio123 said:


> is rx1 the most mid centric earbud u have ever tried? for me yes


 


 I think that Sunrise AS-Feeling and VE Asura 2 are more midcentric. I sold both of them but think I'll keep the RX1...


----------



## audio123

danneq said:


> I think that Sunrise AS-Feeling and VE Asura 2 are more midcentric. I sold both of them but think I'll keep the RX1...


 
 nice then my earbud venture has come to an end with rx1!


----------



## Tomasz2D

haiku said:


> I read they have different sound signatures. Never heard ty hi-z myself.


 
  
 This is just crazy. Here is ready solution how to sell more earbuds to earbuds enthusiast/collector:
 1. Take some earbuds parts available: different cables, generic shells, drivers etc.
 2. Create sets of different impedance earbuds.
 3. Market them under different brand names.
 4. Make each of them available in different color.
 5. Now mix different color shells with different cables options.
 6. Make slight adjustments in tuning and call it n+1 version.
 7. Finally let DIY'er with custom mods do the rest of havoc.


----------



## justvinh

tomasz2d said:


> This is just crazy. Here is ready solution how to sell more earbuds to earbuds enthusiast/collector:
> 
> 1. Take some earbuds parts available: different cables, generic shells, drivers etc.
> 
> ...



Lmao this is so true.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

luedriver said:


> how does it differ to the ty hi-z hp150?
> 
> and/or how is seahf and ty hi-z different companies?


 
  
  


audionewbi3 said:


> Alright peeps, seeing as everyone here is mentioning the 400Ohm earbuds (and for the sake of myself for future reference), I am going to attempt to list down all currently available buds by SeaHF. (Starting from low to high impedance)
> 
> *32 Ohms *
> 
> ...


----------



## Tomasz2D

@haiku and @AudioNewbi3 you are "bug guy" creations experts - without you we are lost. Maybe narrow specialization is the solution here.


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> @haiku
> and @AudioNewbi3
> you are "bug guy" creations experts - without you we are lost. Maybe narrow specialization is the solution here.


 Amen


----------



## haiku

tomasz2d said:


> @haiku and @AudioNewbi3 you are "bug guy" creations experts - without you we are lost.


 
 Hehe, my pleasure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Stay tuned for first impressions of LD-3.0 400 Ohm vs the rest of the bunch.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tomasz2d said:


> @haiku and @AudioNewbi3 you are "bug guy" creations experts - without you we are lost. Maybe narrow specialization is the solution here.


 
  
  


golov17 said:


> Amen


 
 hahaha thanks for the complements guys. 
 Surprisingly enough, I have only owned 2 bug guys earbud uptill now. Which are the 320 Ohm v1 and v2.
 The real "entomology researcher" here I would say is Sir @haiku . 
 I just read a lot of bug guys Teiba Baidu hahaha.
http://tieba.baidu.com/f?kw=虫哥耳机&ie=utf-8


----------



## AudioNewbi3

For those who have the thick black cable which came with the Mojito, if you find them very stiff, you can basically remove the outer black sheath and reveal the two insulated conductors inside like what this dude has done:
http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4710648296 
  
 EDIT: I will not be held responsible for your actions


----------



## kinetic758

audionewbi3 said:


> For those who have the thick black cable which came with the Mojito, if you find them very stiff, you can basically remove the outer black sheath and reveal the two insulated conductors inside like what this dude has done:
> http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4710648296
> 
> EDIT: I will not be held responsible for your actions


 
  
 Oh my 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## luedriver

first zen 2.0 black sold in the entire world, as posted by wild lee himself on facebook
  
 not surprising, seeing as it costs $358 USD or $ 478.54 AUD, that's more than a sennheiser hd600, or a philips fildelio x2, or a hifiman he400s, makes the mojito look like a bargain in comparison at $306 AUD


----------



## mochill

I have one too, Zen 2.0 black edition.


----------



## luedriver

mochill said:


> I have one too, Zen 2.0 black edition.


 
 I wonder what he meant then by saying...
  
 "our first zen 2.0 black owner all over the world lol~"
  
 https://www.facebook.com/groups/52vecn/1067937233283641/?ref=notif&notif_t=group_activity&notif_id=1470185069006296
  
 just saying...


----------



## mochill

Probably the first to buy it☺


----------



## vapman

maybe i missed something but what are "bug guys"?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> maybe i missed something but what are "bug guys"?


 
 SeaHF = Bug Guys = Bug Bro


----------



## fairx

To guys who owns RX-1 and tomahawk, I wonder if your preference reflects my findings. 

High - RX-1 win. Period. No contest here. 
Mid - perhaps 65% towards RX-1, 35% tomahawk. 
Low - tomahawk wins period. Also no contest 

Some track especially male vocals I prefer RX-1, better texture / timbre. Female vocals most of the time I prefer tomahawk. 

Tomahawk low is fast fast and way more textured / impact. Better in quality and quantity. I'm not a basshead but Rx-1 low always make me keep wanting for more even after bass boost. It's kinda asphyxiating (yes I mean it, literally). Maybe it's too early to judge but I doubt the low will improve on quantity.

I've tried most foams, ring and donut that I had.


----------



## vapman

fairx said:


> To guys who owns RX-1 and tomahawk, I wonder if your preference reflects my findings.
> 
> High - RX-1 win. Period. No contest here.
> Mid - perhaps 65% towards RX-1, 35% tomahawk.
> ...


 

 Sometimes I have cured that "asphysiation" sound with a recable nad it made all the difference. Sometimes it makes no difference at all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Well then.... anyone got a recabled Tomahawk to try out?
  
 I'm seriously super happy with my RX-1. I will probably buy one or two other bug boys (I still don't get the joke but I like the name) and be set until I lose/break them all. I still want to try the MS985 but the Mojito is almost definitely never entering my collection again.
  
 edit: As i talk about not buying any more earbuds, how the heck do you order from Taobao inthe USA?


----------



## Tomasz2D

DEL


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> edit: As i talk about not buying any more earbuds, how the heck do you order from Taobao inthe USA?


 
  
 I will not tell you because you will buy more earbuds and you will blame me


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> I will not tell you because you will buy more earbuds and you will blame me


 

 Hahaha, i'm just joking. No seriously, is there a way to buy from Taobao without being able to speak Mandarin?


----------



## rggz

vapman said:


> Sometimes I have cured that "asphysiation" sound with a recable nad it made all the difference. Sometimes it makes no difference at all
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have recabled my Tomahawks with Westone cable and after changing the standard black damper in the drivers to a cotton damper and removing huge glue parts the sound improved in the highs area, treble doesn't sound more "artificial flavor" which that was my big problem with this bud. I think after this mod Tomahawks can be turned into a good earbud...
  


Spoiler: Warning: Webcam potato pic


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> Hahaha, i'm just joking. No seriously, is there a way to buy from Taobao without being able to speak Mandarin?


 
  
 I've used www.mistertao.com a bunch of times.  Never had a problem. Great customer service too (though sometimes there is a day or two delay in the responce).
  
 You find the product either on Taobao or on Mistertao's website.  You pay for the items to be sent to their warehouse.  Then you pay again to have them shipped.  Even with the fees and shipping, the prices are very good.
  
 PM me if you have any questions.
  
 ..


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> Hahaha, i'm just joking. No seriously, is there a way to buy from Taobao without being able to speak Mandarin?


 
 I use Bhiner proxy service but there are many other like Taobao Cart etc.


----------



## vapman

bloodypenguin said:


> I've used www.mistertao.com a bunch of times.  Never had a problem. Great customer service too (though sometimes there is a day or two delay in the responce).
> 
> You find the product either on Taobao or on Mistertao's website.  You pay for the items to be sent to their warehouse.  Then you pay again to have them shipped.  Even with the fees and shipping, the prices are very good.
> 
> ...


 
  


tomasz2d said:


> I use Bhiner proxy service but there are many other like Taobao Cart etc.


 
  
 Thanks so much, guys. Taobao has so many great deals Ali doesn't. And all this time I thought Mister Tao was just a nickname for Taobao.
  
 Do any of those services offer:

order combination (e.g., buy different things from different stores over a period of time, and have them ship when you're ready), or,
assistance with returns/warranty replacements if necessary?
  
 Again thanks tons to both of you. I look forward to doing much Taobaoing in the future. Seems like the legit place to be.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

And....unfortunately am not impressed. Cygnus is better to my ears. Mojito is still endgame.


----------



## vapman

We all hear differently. Nothing wrong in the slightest with it.
  
 The only way to know is to hear for yourself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 At least it would be very easy for you to find a new buyer for your RX-1


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> Do any of those services offer:
> 
> order combination (e.g., buy different things from different stores over a period of time, and have them ship when you're ready), or,
> assistance with returns/warranty replacements if necessary?


 
 I am afraid in Bhiner order combination works only within one cart. So you can order from different TaoBao sellers but when you finalize your cart - it is closed. They accept returns only for damaged or incorrect products. When products arrive to their warehouse they unpack it and take photos - you can review these photos on their web service and if something is wrong you can tell them to send it back but you have to be quick and do it in 3 days time. Some TaoBao stores of interest:
Rose Technology, FARERL, DaiK (wooden earbuds), TY, Earphone Association, SeaHF, ERQU, So called "black horse ES series"


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Got to Catch Them All: ToneKing/MusicMaker.
  

  

  
  
 --


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> I am afraid in Bhiner order combination works only within one cart. So you can order from different TaoBao sellers but when you finalize your cart - it is closed. They accept returns only for damaged or incorrect products. When products arrive to their warehouse they unpack it and take photos - you can review these photos on their web service and if something is wrong you can tell them to send it back but you have to be quick and do it in 3 days time. Some TaoBao stores of interest:
> Rose Technology, FARERL, DaiK (wooden earbuds), TY, Earphone Association, SeaHF, ERQU, So called "black horse ES series"


 

 Incredibly informative post.... really thank you very much.
  


bloodypenguin said:


> Got to Catch Them All: ToneKing/MusicMaker.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I missed this by the turn of the page! To your ear, which is bassiest/warmest?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> I missed this by the turn of the page! To your ear, which is bassiest/warmest?


 
  
 For Bass, the Silver Tomahawk wins no contest.
  
 Though, the T0300 seems to be the warmest.
  
 --


----------



## fairx

vapman said:


> Sometimes I have cured that "asphysiation" sound with a recable nad it made all the difference. Sometimes it makes no difference at all
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 the mids and highs of rx-1 are stellar, I'll keep them just for that value alone
  
 but the bass is like watching some champion, cramped, swimming to the finish line, but you want to root for him, "come on you can do it..!". *somehow it made me nervous. *
  
  


rggz said:


> I have recabled my Tomahawks with Westone cable and after changing the standard black damper in the drivers to a cotton damper and removing huge glue parts the sound improved in the highs area, treble doesn't sound more "artificial flavor" which that was my big problem with this bud. I think after this mod Tomahawks can be turned into a good earbud...
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Webcam potato pic





 wow!  sir, can you give me some tips, opening and recable my tomahwaks? really appreciate it! 
 how's you describe the sound? still dynamic and intense?


----------



## audio123

Ag rx1 has quite a good controlled extension which I like. Mids are very promiment.


----------



## fairx

bloodypenguin said:


> For Bass, the Silver Tomahawk wins no contest.
> 
> 
> --


 
 tomahawk FTW!!
  
 BTW I raise the mid bass a couple of dB (RX-1) now and try not to focus so much maybe in 1-2 days my brain will burn!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

fairx said:


> Tomahawk FTW!!


 
  
 During my quick photo shoot of the four MusicMaker/ToneKing Earbuds I have, I ended up listening to them all back to back to back to back.
  
 The Red Ting is clearly the winner for overall playback.
  
 Though, my favorite, is still the Tomahawk.  It is just so much fun to listen to with its great forward (IMO) vocals and perfect sub-bass. 
  
 --


----------



## golov17

Woohoo! Hifi Noise Cancelling Bass!


----------



## SWLIU

Auglamour RX-1 all colors available on Amazon prime: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01J0R38J8


----------



## luedriver

golov17 said:


> Woohoo! Hifi Noise Cancelling Bass!


 
 are they re-cabled sennheisers?
  
 also http://www.aliexpress.com/item/T-Music-Professional-DIY-HiFi-Headphone-Cable/32686800517.html?shortkey=FFVr2u6R&addresstype=600
  
 I see that they are now 70% off, are they good? I don't need any more, but I can't refuse such a mark down in price, how do they comapare to monk +, she 3800, ty hi-z hp32?
  
 sorry for too much questions...


----------



## satansmutt

golov17 said:


> Woohoo! Hifi Noise Cancelling Bass!


 
  
  I got mine and i'm very disappointed they don't have noise cancelling bass but on the plus side they do actually sound quite good for the price


----------



## golov17

luedriver said:


> are they re-cabled sennheisers?
> 
> also http://www.aliexpress.com/item/T-Music-Professional-DIY-HiFi-Headphone-Cable/32686800517.html?shortkey=FFVr2u6R&addresstype=600
> 
> ...


good with Hiegi, interesting, really


----------



## luedriver

golov17 said:


> good with Hiegi, interesting, really


 
 is the price down real? I found an old post saying that it was $10 before and now the ones selling are saying it was $40, I'm thinking its false advertising to sell more


----------



## golov17

luedriver said:


> is the price down real? I found an old post saying that it was $10 before and now the ones selling are saying it was $40, I'm thinking its false advertising to sell more


 Unfortunately, we do the weather is really hot +36°C in the shade, and therefore tinnitus will not let me fully appreciate these earbuds, but the overall impression is positive, good for price..


----------



## haiku

So guys, here are my first impressions of the last of my Seahf earbuds I´ve had yet to hear: The LD-3.0 400 Ohm.
  
 vapman wrote, that he´s missing his 3.0 400 Ohm, and I think I understand why, even though the sound signature as a whole is a mixed bag for me.
  
 The 3.0 has the most intimate sound signature of all Seahf imo. It blows up the sound, which brings the music and vocals real close, so it seems the singer is singing just for you, or if its a band, that you would be right there jamming with them. I also became aware that when listening with other earbuds, most vocals sound as if the singer would be just head and mouth. Not with the 3.0 400 Ohm. With them, you hear the whole body resonating with the vocals. So goosebumps guaranteed with love songs. 
 The 3.0 has a deep reaching bass, too. It´s not as good in quality as it is with the 4.0 400 Ohm, let alone the Smart 2.0 320 Ohm, or as powerful, thunderous and growling as the 3.0 320 Ohm, but having been to a lot of live concerts, I´d say it´s the most authentic. It goes quite deep, sounds bloomy, sometimes boomy, but the ultimate power is lacking.
 The most problematic topic are the highs. They can sound shiny and sparkly with the best recordings, but with average quality recordings, they sound raw and digital. That´s also the problem with the sound of the 3.0 as a whole. If you don´t feed it high quality stuff, it quickly just sounds too boomy, or the music turns into a wall of sound, with all instruments clustered together.
 So, just like with the Smart 1.0 320 Ohm, you have to be picky with the choice of your music when listening with the 3.0 400 Ohm, which is a big minus for me personally. But then, Fleetwood Mac´s "Rumours" never sounded so intimate, and one of my all time favourites "Alan´s Psychedelic Breakfast" from Pink Floyd´s "Atom Heart Mother" never sounded like I would be sitting next to Alan, watching as he makes and eats his breakfast right in front of me.....
 Where would I put the 3.0 in my ranking list? Right now, after only a few hours, *there*
  
 1. Smart 2.0 320 Ohm
 2. LD-3.0 320 Ohm
 3. Smart 1.0 320 Ohm
*4. LD-3.0 400 Ohm*
 5. LD-3.0 150 Ohm
 6. LD-4.0 400 Ohm
  
 Now, don´t take this as a definite ranking from best to worst, as *this list is just my first impressions of those earbuds*. I´ll change it, should my experience change. Every one of these earbuds has it´s character, and I like them all. 
 The big soundstage, the flow, the balanced and analog sounding quality of the LD-4.0 400 Ohm has to be heard to be acknowledged. The attack, speed, and powerful bass of the LD-3.0 150 Ohm is great for a lot of jazz and rock music. The LD-3.0 400 Ohm can make the music very personal and intimate. And if you want a completely different sound experience from what you know, listen to the Smart 1.0 320 Ohm. King of bass and emotions is the Ld-3.0 320 Ohm for me. Last but not least, the Smart 2.0 320 Ohm ticks all my boxes.
  
 Always remember, like Clieos list, take what I wrote with a grain of salt. This is all my personal experience. YMMVVM.


----------



## Tomasz2D

haiku said:


> So guys, here are my first impressions of the last of my Seahf earbuds I´ve had yet to hear: The LD-3.0 400 Ohm.


 
 Is there a way to distinguish LD-3.0 400 Ohm from LD-4.0 400 Ohm visually? If yes, what are the differences?


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> Is there a way to distinguish LD-3.0 400 Ohm from LD-4.0 400 Ohm visually? If yes, what are the differences?


cables:
3.0





4.0


----------



## Tomasz2D

golov17 said:


> cables


 
 Yes, but I think both models have creme braided cables, so how to distinguish them? Can you show it on pictures if it can be recognizable at all?


----------



## haiku

tomasz2d said:


> Is there a way to distinguish LD-3.0 400 Ohm from LD-4.0 400 Ohm visually? If yes, what are the differences?


 

 The new cable doesn´t turn green anymore after a while.


----------



## haiku

tomasz2d said:


> Yes, but I think both models have creme braided cables, so how to distinguish them? Can you show it on pictures if it can be recognizable at all?


 

 The 3.0 has a black ring at the back end of the connector, the 4.0 a white ring.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Some "beauty" shots


----------



## dearyon

tomasz2d said:


> I am afraid in Bhiner order combination works only within one cart. So you can order from different TaoBao sellers but when you finalize your cart - it is closed. They accept returns only for damaged or incorrect products. When products arrive to their warehouse they unpack it and take photos - you can review these photos on their web service and if something is wrong you can tell them to send it back but you have to be quick and do it in 3 days time. Some TaoBao stores of interest:
> Rose Technology, FARERL, DaiK (wooden earbuds), TY, Earphone Association, SeaHF, ERQU, So called "black horse ES series"


 
 this is really helpful, thank you and bookmarked! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


haiku said:


> So guys, here are my first impressions of the last of my Seahf earbuds I´ve had yet to hear: The LD-3.0 400 Ohm.
> 
> vapman wrote, that he´s missing his 3.0 400 Ohm, and I think I understand why, even though the sound signature as a whole is a mixed bag for me.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks a lot sir! this is really a nice guide for someone who are new to Seahf earbuds 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I will wait for my Zen to arrive first and if I like its sound signature, I will go venturing Seahf earbuds 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 for now I just putting Seahf LD-3.0 320 Ohm and Smart 2.0 to my wishlist~


----------



## Tomasz2D

haiku said:


> The 3.0 has a black ring at the back end of the connector, the 4.0 a white ring.


 
 Yes! You just saved my earbuds from bathroom test. I wanted to hang them there for one week and see if cable would turn green. Now I don't need to do it  But looking at pictures posted by Golov there is also color hue difference.


----------



## haiku

tomasz2d said:


> Yes! You just saved my earbuds from bathroom test. I wanted to hang them there for one week and see if cable would turn green. Now I don't need to do it


 
 Hehe, always glad if I can help.


----------



## kinetic758

audionewbi3 said:


> Some "beauty" shots


 
  
 Nice!  
  
 Did you make any modifications to the earbuds themselves?  Yours has this dark color.. mine have a transparency where you can actually see the innards (I see holes around the perimeter on mine resembling some sort of vent/filter).  I wonder if they slightly changed the production process.


----------



## Tomasz2D

golov17 said:


> Woohoo! Hifi Noise Cancelling Bass!


 
 Now, what the heck, is that Sennheiser brand name doing on that earbud? This is not only against Aliexpress rules but can potencially cause some very unpleasent problems for buyer if the package is inspected by customs officer. There was no Sennheiser logo on original seller's pictures.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

tomasz2d said:


> Now, what the heck, is that Sennheiser brand name doing on that earbud? This is not only against Aliexpress rules but can potencially cause some very unpleasent problems for buyer if the package is inspected by customs officer. There was no Sennheiser logo on original seller's pictures.


 
  
 Yeah, I have had a few pairs like this as well from Taobao.  Clearly fake Sennheiser, but they all sounded good and I was not buying a Sennheiser earbud anyways.  
  
 Does not bother me, but I can totally see how it could confuse and upset other buyers.  A lot of these companies will either photograph them in a way so that the logo does not show, or just Photoshop it off.

 I bought a earphone case once, I thought it was plain black.  However it had a huge fake Beats logo, I was not too happy and got a refund.
  
 --


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> Now, what the heck, is that Sennheiser brand name doing on that earbud? This is not only against Aliexpress rules but can potencially cause some very unpleasent problems for buyer if the package is inspected by customs officer. There was no Sennheiser logo on original seller's pictures.


 

 Mine are out for delivery still, however even though I didn't see the Sennheiser name anywhere on the T-Music page, they did say it was MX500 based.
  
 How much of that is true, who will ever know? Safer to assume it isn't.
  
 One has to wonder about logos being put on fakes - there is always backlash 100% of the time until the same product is released without the fake logo. Yet they keep pumping out fake logo stuff, get yelled at by their customers, and the cycle repeats.... not just headphones.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Is the Ting worth it?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

tayyab pirzada said:


> Is the Ting worth it?


 
  
 Ting is great IMO.  Seems you are collecting the best of the best.  I highly recommend adding it to your growing inventory.
  
 Smooth Neutral Signature, bass is present, but not elevated.


----------



## Tomasz2D

bloodypenguin said:


> Does not bother me, but I can totally see how it could confuse and upset other buyers.  A lot of these companies will either photograph them in a way so that the logo does not show, or just Photoshop it off.


 
  
 Yes, undesirable aesthetics is one side of a coin but other side is law infringement when somebody receives counterfeit goods in import package. EU and US law is very strickt in this area. I think in US you can at least bring in one counterfeit product at a time without any consequences but what if you order more then one piece for your family or friends. In EU it can be treated as import for non-personal usage and buyer can be penalized or even put on trial. And anti-counterfeiting law is even more strict in France and Italy (tourists beware!) where buyer can be prosecuted for buying counterfeit goods straight away together with seller. So Aliexpress seller that stealthily sends counterfeit product can do a lot of harm to unaware and in fact innocent buyer.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

tomasz2d said:


> Yes, undesirable aesthetics is one side of a coin but other side is law infringement when somebody receives counterfeit goods in import package. EU and US law is very strickt in this area. I think in US you can at least bring in one counterfeit product at a time without any consequences but what if you order more then one piece for your family or friends. In EU it can be treated as import for non-personal usage and buyer can be penalized or even put on trial. And anti-counterfeiting law is even more strict in France and Italy (tourists beware!) where buyer can be prosecuted for buying counterfeit goods straight away together with seller. So Aliexpress seller that stealthily sends counterfeit product can do a lot of harm to unaware and in fact innocent buyer.


 
  
 To be honest, besides the moral side, I never really thought about the legal side.  You make some very good points.
  
 It makes you wonder why this seller would use (Fake?) Sennheiser bodies on their build?  Are the fake Sennheiser bodies cheaper that just blank housings?
  
 The final question is, are these real Sennheiser parts?


----------



## boblauer

bloodypenguin said:


> To be honest, besides the moral side, I never really thought about the legal side.  You make some very good points.
> 
> It makes you wonder why this seller would use (Fake?) Sennheiser bodies on their build?  Are the fake Sennheiser bodies cheaper that just blank housings?
> 
> The final question is, are these real Sennheiser parts?


 
 The flip side to that is some companies, and Sennheiser is very aggressive in their anti-counterfeit measures, seek to prosecute  or enforce copyright laws. I work for a large Japanese electronics manufacturer and when we had bloated staff we had people in marketing specifically searching for things like this and used it as a defense in some class action suits saying things were counterfeit. It really exposes the buyer if based in USA or EU.


----------



## Tomasz2D

bloodypenguin said:


> It makes you wonder why this seller would use (Fake?) Sennheiser bodies on their build?  Are the fake Sennheiser bodies cheaper that just blank housings?


 
 My guess is they just had these shells available somewhere (possible cheaper than the blank one). I don't think they wanted to create fake Sennheiser on purpose.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

tomasz2d said:


> My guess is they just had these shells available somewhere (possible cheaper than the blank one). I don't think they wanted to create fake Sennheiser on purpose.


 
  
 My guess is the same.
  
  
 Taobao Agents like MisterTao try and block many of the earbuds with the key words MX500.  They try and stop you from buying fakes.  In this case, the description makes no mention of the MX500, but it can be clearly seen in the product photos.  There is just no trace of the Sennheiser logo or name.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

What do you think of this, guys? http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-Newest-X3-Music-Maker-Ting-In-Ear-Earphone-HIFI-Flat-Earphone-Fever-DIY-Full-Metal/32707090812.html?spm=2114.30010308.8.67.QKGYrf


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Patiently waiting for a bud to beat the Mojito...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

tayyab pirzada said:


> What do you think of this, guys? http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-Newest-X3-Music-Maker-Ting-In-Ear-Earphone-HIFI-Flat-Earphone-Fever-DIY-Full-Metal/32707090812.html?spm=2114.30010308.8.67.QKGYrf


 

 I do not believe those are official MusicMaker Earbuds, as I do not see them on their official Taobao page:  https://musicmaker.world.taobao.com/
  
  
  
 HOWEVER, I do see a new, super budget earbud for sale now!  I must collect them all!  
  
 https://world.taobao.com/item/536570001796.htm
  

  
 --


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I only want to collect ultra high-end tbh


----------



## kinetic758

tayyab pirzada said:


> I only want to collect ultra high-end tbh


 
  
 Then maybe the Ting isn't for you.  I'm listening to it right now and, if you are looking for something resembling the qualities of Mojito, then this ain't it.  The Ting is less extended in both directions, soundstage more closed in in both directions with less clarity.  Of course, I'm not sure it's a fair comparison.  I do still enjoy the Ting.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kinetic758 said:


> Then maybe the Ting isn't for you.  I'm listening to it right now and, if you are looking for something resembling the qualities of Mojito, then this ain't it.  The Ting is less extended in both directions, soundstage more closed in in both directions with less clarity.  Of course, I'm not sure it's a fair comparison.  I do still enjoy the Ting.


 
 What is for me then ?


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> I only want to collect ultra high-end tbh




As a former mojito owner i can tell you two things:

You will not find a nicer bud. Sorry. If you find a used Blox, go for it. 

If you don't have the zen yet you are really missing out. I I most others have not heard the black edition but those who know both claim the black edition to sound better.

Don't ge the black edition if you hate stiff cables.

Aside from that if no cheaper buds will make you happy.... go the Danneq route . Start collecting vintage sony and aiwa...


----------



## jant71

swliu said:


> Auglamour RX-1 all colors available on Amazon prime: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01J0R38J8


 

 Currently unavailable 8 hours later  Should have ordered enough. Hey, I used to sell for DUNU. Pretty sure if you order more the price per unit should drop so the profit is a little bigger. Seller probably could have got them even cheaper and probably should not have underestimated the demand for them so they would be making money right now instead of not having stock.
  
  
 Okay, had the RX-1 since yesterday. A bit small and needs to be built up for me. Only slightly thicker than stock foams so far. need to add some rings or whatever. bass is there but needs to be sealed in more for me. I, till I work on them more, do like them with my BGVP "C" cable(the bass cable) as it gives them a little more body down low.
  
 Not sure whether I like the RX-1 better than my modded CP300 yet because the CP are darker and have more body but the RX-1 may be a bit more refined. Both beat up the Monk and unamped Zen 2.0 and beat the DH ES4  which fell in between. By Proxy since the CP beat out the other ones head to head and the RX-1 goes toe-to-toe with the CP300. Take the "C" off the CP and they get less refined and less smooth. RX-1 has less body but still refined w/o it and not as essential part of the mod but the RX-1 is harder to drive and holds together better.
  
 Agree with where ClieOS put them in the rankings and agree they are among the more mid focused bud I have had. I will wait till I build them up around the edge and see how much bass stays in then before I declare them the most mid-forward. They seem to be a bit more mid-forward than they will since a bit bass seems to be escaping out the side.
  
 Other than needing a bit more girth for a perfect fit, I like the Auglamour a lot so far. Would be nice if the cable below the Y relaxes a bit after a while. Lays it down on the table and it reminds me a bit of a roller coaster. Hills and curves and not the kind to lay flat 
  
 The clip they come with is nice. Foams are a bit thin for them for my ears. The wood block thing is cute but could have been really cool it it could be more functional and snap together with the one side of the plastic box and make a case or something. Same with the metal logo. Not much real world use as if they were going to have a case the metal logo would be set into the top of it but that plan fell through so they just throw in the AG emblem which has no real use though even if it makes a bit of a fancy impression. Maybe a set of ear hook things or other special fit foams or something would have been more practical and saved on shipping weight for them  Just little niggles and not real complaints as these are very sweet little buds for $20. For sure another winner in value and just plain good regardless.


----------



## vapman

I'm with you @jant71
 the bass is SUPREME but the fit has to be -perfect- or you don't get the full effect of the bass..

i am currently using rubber rings with Hiegi donuts but i am thinking of going double foams on the RX-1. It won't hurt to try.

In other news my T-MUSIC showed up today. Was scheduled for delivery tomorrow but somehow made it here today. Yup it does have the Sennheiser logo on the side, _but it does not look like and is not in the same place as any actual Sennheiser earbud._ Thus I am inclined to believe they picked these shells because they were available and cheap. I don't get the feeling these are trying to pass as Senns. The fact that the logo is nowhere to be seen in the AliExpress page furthers this belief.

I have not had a chance to listen to them yet. Just got home and sat down and had these waiting at the door. Was wondering what I bought from Singapore...

The packing was minimal but nice BTW. Small box, lots of foam, plastic resealable bag with the zipper case inside of it, nicely wound up with a little cable tie.


----------



## kinetic758

tayyab pirzada said:


> What is for me then ?


 
  
 From what I've read, the Zen 2.0 Black.  Price is high, but you did say you're only looking for _ultra_ high end.


----------



## mochill

kinetic758 said:


> tayyab pirzada said:
> 
> 
> > What is for me then ?
> ...


yes, you must get them. They have lifetime warranty as well


----------



## audio123

tayyab pirzada said:


> I only want to collect ultra high-end tbh


i prefer rx1 to zen btw so doesnt mean non high end stuffs are bad


----------



## vapman

Uh, I don't know what you guys are hearing, and it might be because I'm such a basshead I always use high gain and EQ up my sub bass, but the T-Music Noise Cancelling Bass Buds (i'll call them the T-Musics from now on, lol, even though Noise Cancelling Bass is my favorite thing) has some SERIOUS bass action going on.
  
 I am pretty surprised by its overall clarity and balance. Cygnus killer? no way.... but I would rank it near the RX-1.
  
 Bass response is EXCELLENT. I was hoping and praying they would actually* rock bass* because of the name and I can promise you they do.
  
 Their only competition is the SeaHf 400. And these can be driven by a phone and still give you that bass.
  
 They are capable of reaching much farther in bass depth and having MUCH stronger bass impact than any other earbud I know, exception being the SeaHf 400.
  
 Highs are nice and clear but not sibilant at all. Mids are nothing too amazing, but I don't have any complaints either, so overall they are good to me.
  
 I forsee myself using these a LOT more. There is a bass test tone CD I love to use when I get any new set of headphones (I have listened to this CD thousands of times without a doubt) and 95% of earbuds simply can't reproduce the lowest sub bass notes. They will just go silent or at best make a faint sound of struggling to do anything. These actually *pump* *out* the sub bass *power*.
  
 Compared to the RX-1 the mid bass seems to hit harder on the RX-1, and the mids are MUCH more forward on the RX-1 than the T-Music but I have to admit I like the highs of the T-Music more than the RX-1!
  
 Don't get me wrong, the RX-1 can have huge bass, but it's mostly mid bass or influenced by the strong mids. The T-Music is a more neutral sound with  the exception of the powerful sub bass.
  
 A sure keeper in my opinion. Very glad to have these. I forsee a lot of head time with these.


----------



## audio123

Well rx1 is ahead of the cygnus according to clieos ranking. Again personal preference. No right no wrong.


----------



## vapman

hmm, the T-Music's have made an ugly electric pulse sound quite a few times now. Might have to let them burn in overnight and see if they still work tomorrow...
  
@golov17 have you got this "popping" sound on yours?
  
 My mistake. The T Musics are fine.


----------



## rggz

vapman said:


> hmm, the T-Music's have made an ugly electric pulse sound quite a few times now. Might have to let them burn in overnight and see if they still work tomorrow...
> 
> @golov17 have you got this "popping" sound on yours?


 

 Is that something similar to a blown driver? You can check here the problem testing some low frequencies, this generally occurs with bad drivers, some hair/dust or excessive gain with EQ at low frequencies. But... I hope that isn't your case!


----------



## vapman

rggz said:


> Is that something similar to a blown driver? You can check here the problem testing some low frequencies, this generally occurs with bad drivers, some hair/dust or excessive gain with EQ at low frequencies. But... I hope that isn't your case!


 

 It ended up being a little too much bass boosting. Sometimes I forget not everything can take +32dB of sub 50hz.


----------



## rggz

vapman said:


> It ended up being a little too much bass boosting. Sometimes I forget not everything can take +32dB of sub 50hz.


 

 Wow! +32dB is too much IMO for an earbud, from The Art of Equalization:
  


> Remember, a lot of boost at the extreme low end can route excessive infrasonic energy to the loudspeakers, which could damage them. Similarly, too much ultrasonic content can damage tweeters and overload the tape deck.


 

 If you're using a low-shelf filter for bass it can reach inaudible frequencies like <10Hz but your amp can work with those frequencies and the driver could damage with that extra energy.


----------



## B9Scrambler

rggz You underestimate a true bass head


----------



## ezekiel77

Mojitos and RX-1 incoming. Endgame city I hope!


----------



## Townyj

Just ordered the Cygnus, i love my hawks but the fit can put me off after an hour or so.


----------



## golov17

Judging by the specifications, will be a model Auglamour RX-1S with microphone


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I just ordered the *MusicMaker/Toneking TP16*.

I'll let you all know how it is when it arrives in a few weeks.

--


----------



## fairx

bloodypenguin said:


> I do not believe those are official MusicMaker Earbuds, as I do not see them on their official Taobao page:  https://musicmaker.world.taobao.com/


 
 I juts visit that taobao link, seems they also selling individual drivers.. interesting
  
 anybody build diy earbud from scratch here? I guess in china forum theres loads of info but sadly I can't read chinese 
  

  
 edit
  
 oh it seems from the diameter its for headphones?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

fairx said:


> I juts visit that taobao link, seems they also selling individual drivers.. interesting
> 
> anybody build diy earbud from scratch here? I guess in china forum theres loads of info but sadly I can't read chinese


 
  
 They also have a nice collection of Wires as well:


----------



## vapman

fairx said:


> I juts visit that taobao link, seems they also selling individual drivers.. interesting
> 
> anybody build diy earbud from scratch here? I guess in china forum theres loads of info but sadly I can't read chinese
> 
> ...


 
 I laughed out loud that one was labeled HD800.
  
 But seriously I would love to get my hands on a bunch of these and empty shells and throw together my own buds. I always wanted to learn how driver tuning works.
  
@rggz I have been known to blow speakers out from overbassing. The only earbud I ever killed with bass EQ is the Hifiman ES100. I also ruined a Peavey PA once at a show. That's a very unrelated story though....


----------



## fairx

my brother at home always building power amps and guitar amps 
  
 maybe I can persuade him to do diy for me
  
 buts it's hard enough to ask him to build me headphone amps
  
 sigh..~


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree completely - accurate description of sound for these good buds


----------



## vapman

fairx said:


> my brother at home always building power amps and guitar amps
> 
> maybe I can persuade him to do diy for me
> 
> ...


 

 If he can do a power amp or guitar amp he can do a headphone amp.
  
 A headphone amp is easier to build than both a power amp or a guitar amp. Well, unless it's a really crappy power amp.
  
 I speak from experience as a longtime power amp junkie and recording musician who services his own gear... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 IMO if you get him to make one.... do what Bengkel Macro does (@irgunawan rocks) and have both a normal headphone output and a 75 ohm output. Really nice when you have sources too powerful for earbuds.


----------



## golov17

btw, kc08t have great sub-bass


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> btw, kc08t have great sub-bass


 
 That will have to be my next purchase.....
  
 I just bought Danneq's Lyra so it might be a little while!


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> That will have to be my next purchase.....
> 
> I just bought Danneq's Lyra so it might be a little while!


Woohoo! I love Lyra, congrats!  

Right now with..


----------



## tommo21

Just a heads up....
  
 The Rose Mojito's can be had with a discount now for the next few days on Aliexpress. I got it for $215 when using coupons and ordering via the phoneapp. Couldn't resist after reading through this thread for the last few days.


----------



## vapman

Can't stop using my T-Music buds.
  
 They are really kind of like Monk originals with a lot more/deeper bass.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tayyab pirzada said:


> Patiently waiting for a bud to beat the Mojito...


 
  
  


tayyab pirzada said:


> I only want to collect ultra high-end tbh


 
  
  


tayyab pirzada said:


> What is for me then ?


 
 What happened to not buying anymore gears
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




?
  
 Jokes aside, mate, as mentioned previously, I _*highly doubt *_that you can find any other earbuds which can compare with the Mojito for that specific "sound signature".
 The only other real option, as again previously mentioned by others is to 
  
 a) Go a completely different route in sound signature and get either:
    i) Zen 2.0 (Normal, Balanced, or Balck Edition)
   ii) NOS Zen 1.0
 b) Go the vintage route and get the following brands:
   i) Aiwa (Most notably the Aiwa HPV-99)
  ii) Sony (Most notably the Sony MDR E-282)


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> What happened to not buying anymore gears ?
> 
> Jokes aside, mate, as mentioned previously, I _*highly doubt *_that you can find any other earbuds which can compare with the Mojito for that specific "sound signature".
> The only other real option, as again previously mentioned by others is to
> ...


 or this for 316usd


----------



## Tympan

audionewbi3 said:


> What happened to not buying anymore gears
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 .. or be strong, determined, breath in and out a lot... and wait for Mojito 3.0


----------



## golov17

tympan said:


> .. or be strong, determined, breath in and out a lot... and wait for Mojito 3.0


VE Nirvana


----------



## Tympan

golov17 said:


> VE Nirvana


 

 I don't know Golov, some say "bit by the mojito, never go back"


----------



## golov17

tympan said:


> I don't know Golov, some say "bit by the mojito, never go back"


not true..


----------



## Tympan

your picture didn't load correctly. Was it a picture of the hundreds of earphones you bought after buying a mojito?


----------



## golov17

tympan said:


> your picture didn't load correctly. Was it a picture of the hundreds of earphones you bought after buying a mojito?


 go to future, lol


----------



## Tympan

wait Golov, you don't have a mojito!?!


----------



## golov17

tympan said:


> wait Golov, you don't have a mojito!?!


 stuck somewhere in the recesses of post delivery ....


----------



## Tympan

nice! your earphone collection is scared


----------



## golov17

tympan said:


> haaa... How many days since you ordered?


15.07.2016


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> or this for 316usd


 
 Man would I love to see a review of this....
  
 I had a Mojito loved it and I still kept collecting new buds and my current favorite was $10 and my second favorite was $22


----------



## ezekiel77

tommo21 said:


> Just a heads up....
> 
> The Rose Mojito's can be had with a discount now for the next few days on Aliexpress. I got it for $215 when using coupons and ordering via the phoneapp. Couldn't resist after reading through this thread for the last few days.


 
  
 I messaged JimHCK and he offered me $199. But then I asked for DHL too which comes to $214 total.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

kinetic758 said:


> Nice!
> 
> Did you make any modifications to the earbuds themselves?  Yours has this dark color.. mine have a transparency where you can actually see the innards (I see holes around the perimeter on mine resembling some sort of vent/filter).  I wonder if they slightly changed the production process.


 
 Nah mate, I just ordered them in Black color from their Taobao Store. I inquired about color options and was a bit mesmerized by the black, thus I ordered it. As for mods, non has been conducted to the Mojito, unless you mean equiping rubber rings and monk+ foams.
  
 Cable is salvaged from a destroyed SeaHF 320Ohm v2. Sliver plated and bloody soft too.
  


golov17 said:


> or this for 316usd


 
 Is that the 600Ohm earbuds I mentioned earlier? They are crazy, imagine how does one bloody drive a 600Ohm earbud?
  


tympan said:


> .. or be strong, determined, breath in and out a lot... and wait for Mojito 3.0


 
 I don't think there will be a 3.0 in the near future. But hopefully, I am wrong.
  


golov17 said:


> VE Nirvana


 
 I can see Buddha himself.
  


tympan said:


> I don't know Golov, some say "bit by the mojito, never go back"


 
 100% true for earbuds with similar sound signature
  


golov17 said:


> stuck somewhere in the recesses of post delivery ....


 
 Welcome to the club my lord


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > or this for 316usd
> ...


 
 Link Please !


----------



## Tympan

golov17 said:


> 15.07.2016


 
 should be there soon now
  
  


vapman said:


> Man would I love to see a review of this....


 
 Brooko to the rescue?


audionewbi3 said:


> I don't think there will be a 3.0 in the near future. But hopefully, I am wrong.


 
 i still need to hear the original mojito anyway..


----------



## AudioNewbi3

music4mhell said:


> Link Please !


 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5-c.w4002-3834745461.25.caw9ge&id=534517858212 
 600 Ohm
  
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5-c.w4002-3834745461.22.eRLGMC&id=534582316342
 500 Ohm
  
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.277.pAhrc5&id=534873989732&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail
 500 Ohm
  
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5-c.w4002-14618351135.18.YcxPsX&id=534903296214
 600 Ohm


----------



## Tympan




----------



## AudioNewbi3

tympan said:


>


 
 we've all been through this。 stay strong


----------



## Tympan

no, I'm just going to bed


----------



## Tympan

(after I order a mojito)


----------



## vapman

tympan said:


> should be there soon now
> 
> 
> Brooko to the rescue?
> i still need to hear the original mojito anyway..


 
 i hope to god Brooko gets to review it, easily one of if not the best reviewer on the site. great writer.
  
 Also desperately holding myself back from buying all the TY Hi-Zs.... gotta be patient!
  
 i still just want to hear the mojito new version. If anyone in the boston area wants to do a mini-meet...


----------



## ezekiel77

tayyab pirzada said:


> What is for me then ?


 
  
 I can only think of Zen Black balanced. A warmer complement to the brighter Mojito. Best of both worlds. The pinnacle of earbuds.


----------



## Tomasz2D

tayyab pirzada said:


> I only want to collect ultra high-end tbh


 
  


audionewbi3 said:


> a) Go a completely different route in sound signature and get either:
> i) Zen 2.0 (Normal, Balanced, or Balck Edition)
> ii) NOS Zen 1.0
> b) Go the vintage route and get the following brands:
> ...


 
  
 Or:
 c) go back to budget earbuds again.
  
 I went this "c" route myself starting with budget, then I went to high-end and then returned to budget again and I must admit this is the place where the real fun is.


----------



## haiku

tomasz2d said:


> Or:
> c) go back to budget earbuds again.
> 
> I went this "c" route myself starting with budget, then I went to high-end and then returned to budget again and I must admit this is the place where the real fun is.


 

 Mojito can´t be "ultra high end", because Wild Lee posted recently, that real high end buds don´t need foams, so.....  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 Quote: "foam if paired with high quality earbud will do more harm than good" (VE Monk thread)


----------



## fairx

Today I spent my afternoon reading taobao listing and read many interesting (albeit google translated).
  
 to my limited understanding TY high Z earbud is not that hard to drive since they're quite sensitive?
  
 can @haiku or @AudioNewbi3 or @vapman any other owners confirm this?


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> Or:
> c) go back to budget earbuds again.
> 
> I went this "c" route myself starting with budget, then I went to high-end and then returned to budget again and I must admit this is the place where the real fun is.


 

 I haven't come there yet. Still, I do buy some budget stuff even if I want to stick to high end earbuds. TY HI-Z32 is really great and I think I prefer it to original Monk, Monk+ and AuGlamour RX1. RX1 does have some of the nicest mids I've heard in a pair of earbuds, though...

 The only problem with buying budget earbuds is that you buy much more. Do you really need 30-40 earbuds? My aim is to stick around 20 but it's hard...


----------



## music4mhell

audionewbi3 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Link Please !
> ...


 
 No aliexpress link ?


----------



## vapman

I din't even notice they have a 600 ohm now. ugh....
  
 Sorry @fairx but I dont't/haventt owned a single  HY and only got that one v3 SeaHf 400.


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> No aliexpress link ?


not yet, but.. i hope..


----------



## AudioNewbi3

fairx said:


> Today I spent my afternoon reading taobao listing and read many interesting (albeit google translated).
> 
> to my limited understanding TY high Z earbud is not that hard to drive since they're quite sensitive?
> 
> can @haiku or @AudioNewbi3 or @vapman any other owners confirm this?


 
 I read the Teiba thread that the new 400Ohm by TY is significantly easier to drive than the 320Ohms if SeaHf. How true is this, I have no idea, as I always use my buds on a stack.


----------



## vapman

The SeaHf 400 definitely needs the power too.


----------



## music4mhell

600 Ohms for an Earbud, i think this will be first of its kind


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> 600 Ohms for an Earbud, i think this will be first of its kind


 

 that's why we need someone in here to get us a review! dying to know.


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > 600 Ohms for an Earbud, i think this will be first of its kind
> ...


 
 Luckily my Mojo can drive 600 Ohms easily  So definitely i will buy one, if it's good !


----------



## haiku

fairx said:


> Today I spent my afternoon reading taobao listing and read many interesting (albeit google translated).
> 
> to my limited understanding TY high Z earbud is not that hard to drive since they're quite sensitive?
> 
> can @haiku or @AudioNewbi3 or @vapman any other owners confirm this?


 

 For Seahf 200 mw and up at 16 Ohm for all of them. Nothing to use with a smartphone.


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> The only problem with buying budget earbuds is that you buy much more. Do you really need 30-40 earbuds? My aim is to stick around 20 but it's hard...


 
  
 Yes... but that's the beauty of earbuds - they are so easy to store - you can have like 200 in one carton box - think what real storage problem cars and motorbikes collectors must have.


haiku said:


> Mojito can´t be "ultra high end", because Wild Lee posted recently, that real high end buds don´t need foams, so.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 2007 - Steve Jobs - "Nobody wants a stylus."
 2015 - iPad Pro with stylus (sorry - Apple Pencil)


----------



## haiku

tomasz2d said:


> 2007 - Steve Jobs - "Nobody wants a stylus."
> 2015 - iPad Pro with stylus (sorry - Apple Pencil)


 

 Uhu, so in 2015 everybody wanted a stylus? Well, I didn´t and still don´t (yuk!).


----------



## Fabi

danneq said:


> I haven't come there yet. Still, I do buy some budget stuff even if I want to stick to high end earbuds. TY HI-Z32 is really great and I think I prefer it to original Monk, Monk+ and AuGlamour RX1. RX1 does have some of the nicest mids I've heard in a pair of earbuds, though...
> 
> 
> The only problem with buying budget earbuds is that you buy much more. Do you really need 30-40 earbuds? My aim is to stick around 20 but it's hard...



I prefer now TY 32 over Monk and Monk+, it's personal preference and now lurking on Seahf 320v1 or TY 320m.
Hmm puzzled to try rx1.


----------



## Tomasz2D

Just some Friday fun !
  
 Quote:


golov17 said:


> T-Music Professional DIY Earphone 3.5mm Hifi Noise Cancelling Bass In-Ear Headset With Package
> http://s.aliexpress.com/FFVr2u6R


 Quote:

  


tomasz2d said:


> Oh, I know how they will sound just by looking at them but...


 


kurtextrem said:


> how?


 



tomasz2d said:


> Nice deep bass, recessed mids and slightly rolled off highs. Warm signature


 


vapman said:


> ... Bass response is EXCELLENT...
> ... Highs are nice and clear but not sibilant at all. Mids are nothing too amazing...


 
  
 I don't know... did I get it right?


----------



## audio123

fabi said:


> I prefer now TY 32 over Monk and Monk+, it's personal preference and now lurking on Seahf 320v1 or TY 320m.
> Hmm puzzled to try rx1.


when i got the ty32 i prefer over the monk. Now i prefer the rx1 over ty32 and zen 2.0.


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> when i got the ty32 i prefer over the monk. Now i prefer the rx1 over ty32 and zen 2.0.


 problem with RX-1, they are too small,i continue to experiment with some rubber rings ..


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> I don't know... did I get it right?


 


 I think you got it bro 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 still using mine and no desire to use anything else. Truly great sound especially for the money. No other earbuds are seeing use except the Remaxes when I make phone calls (not for listening unless i am desperate for earbuds and travelling) and the RX-1 which I busted about to battle it off against the T-Music.
  
 The T-Music isn't a bed for everyone. I don't think any are. i think cygnus are closest to "good for everyone" because even the monk has their haters. It's not wrong it's just how it is..
  
 People who love both their bass and earbuds should get one of these. i do love them alot.
  
 One note regarding the Senheiser logo on them... whereas they look nothing lke my legit MX500's (I have two) and the shells are very notably different in design. That said, I busted out an old recabled set of MX500, ran it thru a 100 ohm impedance adapter to tame the highs and allow the bass to come out more... this no question better than they previously were (bass light, sibilant, shrill) but somehow modding them a bit has made them sound closer to the T-Music sound. So I guess the mystery of why they have the Senn logo remains a mystery. That said... definitely sounds better than the Mx500 that is for sure.
  
 I like mids but I don't love them. I hate treble but will take any bright headphone if it's not too bright to give me ear pain. Bass is of the utmost importance to me.
  
 Just remember a true basshead isn't looking for farty muddy one note mid bass;;; that is why I would recommend these easily to bassheadds wh00 might want to have a earbud in their collection and doesn't want to amp or have to use a  phone/DAP compatible bass oriented earbud... and again even though I say bass orients, the mids are great and clear and not velied.
  
 The SeaHf 400 had a SERIOUS veil problem i am not experiencing with these.. Even if the SeaHf can take more power and has a little more sub bass force is it really worth spending the extra $60-70 for an earbid you _need_ to a,p?
  
 Thanks agian @golov17 for finding these and now that they are known on head-fi I can only assume T- Music is about to get swamped with orders.
  
 P.S. It looked to me lkike it would come with the crappy tangle nightmare that is the KZ IEMs but this cable is very lightweight and comfortable and does not tangle.


----------



## music4mhell

When ever i used Donut foam on any earbud, i nev got it right,
 But on Mojito, whao, Donut bud doesn't come out  Atlas, i got the combo, Hiegi Donut Foam+Mojito 
  
 Now i realized what i was missing with full foams with Mojito


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> When ever i used Donut foam on any earbud, i nev got it right,
> But on Mojito, whao, Donut bud doesn't come out  Atlas, i got the combo, Hiegi Donut Foam+Mojito
> 
> Now i realized what i was missing with full foams with Mojito


any rubber rings?


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > When ever i used Donut foam on any earbud, i nev got it right,
> ...


 
 No my ears are small, so with only one donut foam, and i am in bliss


----------



## luedriver

vapman said:


>


 
 well that has me convinced enough to buy them, I was considering them for the look of the cable, alone, but having earbuds that are easily driven with nice sub-bass closed the deal for me...


----------



## vapman

luedriver said:


> well that has me convinced enough to buy them, I was considering them for the look of the cable, alone, but having earbuds that are easily driven with nice sub-bass closed the deal for me...




If you get em and don't like it, it wouldn hurt to have a second second set...

Here is hoping this not a TMUSIC limited run affair affair these will continue to to made and improved upon.

PS screw Aliexpress sellers w give you a tracking numb but doesn't sh up as "accepted to China post office" more than days after your othe AE stuff arrives  where's my remax and other rx1 and bundle of KZ;s?!


----------



## stratocaster

FYI, some measurements of buds I own. Measured on my DIY measurement rig, most probably not comparable to measurements on other systems. I am providing this to give you some visual information on differences of the buds on this very measurement system.
  
 All measurements taken with Cygnus donut foams for better comparison.
  
*Cygnus (blue) - Ting (yellow) - RX-1 (red):*


  
*Cygnus (blue) - Ting (yellow) :*

  
*Cygnus (blue) - RX-1 (red):*


----------



## base08

How do you guys use your ty hi-z 32? Full foam? hiegi donuts? naked? other options?


----------



## anticute

base08 said:


> How do you guys use your ty hi-z 32? Full foam? hiegi donuts? naked? other options?


 

 I use the donuts that I got with them.


----------



## Fabi

Most balanced sound with donuts but I prefer with Monk+ new foams.


----------



## luedriver

base08 said:


> How do you guys use your ty hi-z 32? Full foam? hiegi donuts? naked? other options?


 
 I am only recently warming up to the idea of using foam, but usually I don't use them as they make the earbuds too big for my ears, I think donuts are good with the hp32's, but I can't tell, sometimes I use monk plus thin foams, sometimes nothing


----------



## kinetic758

audionewbi3 said:


> Nah mate, I just ordered them in Black color from their Taobao Store. I inquired about color options and was a bit mesmerized by the black, thus I ordered it. As for mods, non has been conducted to the Mojito, unless you mean equiping rubber rings and monk+ foams.




Oh I didn't know they had different color options! Do you recall all the available options (or have a link to them)?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

BTW, I thought I would ask T-Music about use of the Sennheiser housing.
  
 This was their reply:
  


> T-Music:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 So, not a Sennheiser MX500 obviously, but maybe they wanted it to sound like one?
  
 --


----------



## audio123

base08 said:


> How do you guys use your ty hi-z 32? Full foam? hiegi donuts? naked? other options?


 

 naked is the best imo no veils


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> naked is the best imo no veils


too bright, i use with full foams


----------



## audio123

golov17 said:


> too bright, i use with full foams


 
 what type of full foam do u use?


----------



## base08

golov17 said:


> too bright, i use with full foams


 

 Yes for now i'm using like glove with full foams... Gives a nice smooth warm sound but im missing some of the airiness of the monks plus, i will try with the donuts. 
  
 Btw regarding the rx-1 naked or with some foams?


----------



## audio123

base08 said:


> Yes for now i'm using like glove with full foams... Gives a nice smooth warm sound but im missing some of the airiness of the monks plus, i will try with the donuts.
> 
> Btw regarding the rx-1 naked or with some foams?


 

 agrx1 with their stock foams!


----------



## golov17

kinetic758 said:


> Oh I didn't know they had different color options! Do you recall all the available options (or have a link to them)?


colour of cable, maybe..


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> what type of full foam do u use?


stock foams


----------



## golov17

golov17 said:


> stock foams


----------



## audio123

golov17 said:


> stock foams


 

 shall go try now but what do u think is the improvement?


----------



## golov17

base08 said:


> Yes for now i'm using like glove with full foams... Gives a nice smooth warm sound but im missing some of the airiness of the monks plus, i will try with the donuts.
> 
> Btw regarding the rx-1 naked or with some foams?


 foams hide the beauty of their mids, so.. rubber rings for my taste better..


----------



## audio123

golov17 said:


> foams hide the beauty of their mids, so.. rubber rings for my taste better..


 

 but in what way will rubber rings change the sound tho since sound is not passing through it as compared to foam


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> shall go try now but what do u think is the improvement?


 Well, maybe when I'm not using them with m2, I'll try something else..


----------



## Danneq

base08 said:


> Yes for now i'm using like glove with full foams... Gives a nice smooth warm sound but im missing some of the airiness of the monks plus, i will try with the donuts.
> 
> Btw regarding the rx-1 naked or with some foams?


 

 White silicon/rubber ring from Monk+ expansion pack and then the donut foams that came with the RX-1.
  
  


base08 said:


> How do you guys use your ty hi-z 32? Full foam? hiegi donuts? naked? other options?


 

 Blue thin Monk+ foams...


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> but in what way will rubber rings change the sound tho since sound is not passing through it as compared to foam


 you read the topic? they are too small for my ears..


----------



## audio123

golov17 said:


> Well, maybe when I'm not using them with m2, I'll try something else..


 
 ah yes synergy is key to sound.


golov17 said:


> you read the topic? they are too small for my ears..


 
 oh didnt notice. sorry mate!


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> ah yes synergy is key to sound.
> oh didnt notice. sorry mate!


i like mids at the RX-1, but size.. too small


----------



## audio123

golov17 said:


> i like mids at the RX-1, but size.. too small


 

 the mids are quite excellent imo


----------



## Tomasz2D

supermag said:


> how are they compared to monk + and ty hz 32.
> 
> i mean soundstage, bass, high and clarity wise.


 
  
 Ok, so TY Hi-Z HP-32 32 Ohm, VE Monk+, AUGLAMOUR RX-1
  
 Full foams on.
  
 Soundstage depth - all of them give the same depth which is shallow.
 Soundstage width - all of them medium and AUGLAMOUR RX-1 with even little bit narrower then the other two.
 Soundstage placement - normal but AUGLAMOUR RX-1 gives a little closer soundstage placement then the two other.
 TY Hi-Z HP-32 32 Ohm is the darkest sounding with fat body.
 VE Monk+ is most airy sounding.
 TY Hi-Z HP-32 32 Ohm is most dynamic sounding.
 AUGLAMOUR RX-1 gives more balanced type of sound but with forward mids.
 Both TY Hi-Z HP-32 32 Ohm and VE Monk+ offer the strongest bass.
 Both TY Hi-Z HP-32 32 Ohm and VE Monk+ scale nicely with volume increase while AUGLAMOUR RX-1 sounds best with low volume and with high volume mids are becoming even more pronounced.
  
 If you want I can check them with your preferable music tracks and tell you which one of these three I like the most.


----------



## dearyon

Ok, Zen 1 arrived. And I will not hype because it will be obsolete.

 but, all I could say is I've finally found it, the SQ that I search for.
 now time to upgrade my source because I feel bad for Zen LOL

 currently only using Xiaomi Redmi 2 Pro > Rock Amp V2 > Zen 1
 surprisingly, my smartphone alone could drive Zen 1 when I set the volume at ~80%
 this is my first high impedance audio gear, so I don't really understand


----------



## SuperMAG

tomasz2d said:


> Ok, so TY Hi-Z HP-32 32 Ohm, VE Monk+, AUGLAMOUR RX-1
> 
> Full foams on.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks alot bro, gave me a pretty good idea about RX1. Just few followup questions if you don't mind, do you feel the bass impact, i mean the punch in your ear of bass using the RX1 and how is the impact compared to monks  plus. Also How is the instrument and frequency separation between these three. Some call it clarity.
  
 About tracks, just listen to these three and tell me what you feel, i mean really feel lol. Sorry if i bothered you too much.
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT_nvWreIhg
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNGbXIiP1q0
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRQnJyP77tY


----------



## haiku

dearyon said:


> Ok, Zen 1 arrived. And I will not hype because it will be obsolete.
> 
> but, all I could say is I've finally found it, the SQ that I search for.
> now time to upgrade my source because I feel bad for Zen LOL
> ...


 

 Some have the opinion, that high impedance earbuds sound best when driven by lots of milliwatts (mostly 800mw - 1 watt and above). You have to find out for yourself how true that is for you. That´s all. What´s not to understand?


----------



## dearyon

haiku said:


> Some have the opinion, that high impedance earbuds sound best when driven by lots of milliwatts (mostly 800mw - 1 watt and above). That´s all. What´s not to understand?


 
 I'm new to amplifying. I just don't understand (and surprised) why my phone able to drive Zen into satisfying volume without an amp.
 so I just assume that my smartphone have a bit higher output power that able to drive Zen. The volume have to set high though.
 And I did compare mine with my mom smartphone in the past driving the Senn HD202 II, and yeah, my phone definitely have more driving power than her Samsung S5.


----------



## Tympan

dearyon said:


> surprisingly, my smartphone alone could drive Zen 1 when I set the volume at ~80%
> this is my first high impedance audio gear, so I don't really understand


 
  
 Nice catch! Same, I enjoy high impedance earphones straight out of my phone starting at about 80%
  
 Also, the resistance (ohms) of drivers does not determine the sensitivity and loudness. 2 different make of same resistance drivers may sound more or less loud at the same volume. It has to do with the sensitivity of the driver related to the magnet strength, diaphragm mass, and other factors.


----------



## dearyon

tympan said:


> Nice catch! Same, I enjoy high impedance earphones straight out of my phone starting at about 80%
> 
> Also, the resistance (ohms) of drivers does not determine the sensitivity and loudness. 2 different make of same resistance drivers may sound more or less loud at the same volume. It has to do with the sensitivity of the driver related to the magnet strength, diaphragm mass, and other factors.


 
 Ah, I see. Thank you for giving me enlightenment.

 and one more question
 I will take one example of an earbuds specification:
14.8 mm Driver
32 Ohm
18hz - 22Khz FR
*112 Db SP/L* > this is the sensitivity, right? and so, which one is louder (more sensitive)? higher or lower value?


----------



## haiku

dearyon said:


> Ah, I see. Thank you for giving me enlightenment.
> 
> and one more question
> I will take one example of an earbuds specification:
> ...


 

 Higher


----------



## dearyon

haiku said:


> Higher


 
 Alright, thank you. I'm learning something new today


----------



## Tympan

dearyon said:


> *112 Db SP/L* > this is the sensitivity, right? and so, which one is louder (more sensitive)? higher or lower value?


 
 Yes. Higher. Usually, smaller diameter drivers are more sensitive, go louder at same volume, seems more micro detailed, cannot go as deep, and sound narrower than larger drivers (just like in home audio speaker design)


----------



## Tomasz2D

supermag said:


> Thanks alot bro, gave me a pretty good idea about RX1. Just few followup questions if you don't mind, do you feel the bass impact, i mean the punch in your ear of bass using the RX1 and how is the impact compared to monks  plus. Also How is the instrument and frequency separation between these three. Some call it clarity.
> 
> About tracks, just listen to these three and tell me what you feel, i mean really feel lol. Sorry if i bothered you too much.
> 
> ...


 
  
 OK, so for these songs my choice would be *TY Hi-Z HP-32 32 Ohm* - punchy and dynamic presentation, full bodied sound.
  
 RX1 - it has bass but it is not in the foreground and you have to search for it when listening.  It has weaker bass compared to Monk+.
  
 Clarity - all three have similar level of clarity/separation, although first impression is that RX1 is the best in this field but I think this is only illusion because it is brighter. For better clarity/separation and more textured sound you would have to go to higher level like Ting/Cygnus.


----------



## fairx

tomasz2d said:


> OK, so for these songs my choice would be *TY Hi-Z HP-32 32 Ohm* - punchy and dynamic presentation, full bodied sound.
> 
> RX1 - it has bass but it is not in the foreground and you have to search for it when listening.  It has weaker bass compared to Monk+.
> 
> Clarity - all three have similar level of clarity/separation, although first impression is that RX1 is the best in this field but I think this is only illusion because it is brighter. For better clarity/separation and more textured sound you would have to go to higher level like Ting/Cygnus.




Completely agree with bass issue on RX-1

However today I change to donut foam that came with RX-1 and boom! Subbass! And very very good and textured too. Mid bass still lags but the sub bass is so ever present now I understand why ClieOS rate it way above tomahawk. 

I stand corrected. 

I'm not sure what's change though maybe burn in effect too? Because before this I tried with monk+ donut it sounded boomy and I don't like it at all. About the brightness without full foam I can handle it and neither it sounded harsh or sibilant. 

Listening to Alexis Cole and Sara K. right now. OMG!! I even tested with my EDM usual suspects (Lost frequency track) and it give me a nod . I don't even have to switch to bass boost!


----------



## leobigfield

Could someone please test the RX-1 with double monk+ foam covers and tell me how they respond? Thanks


----------



## kurtextrem

Woooooooooow now I understand what the RX-1 package is all about. It looks like I got a package from Apple, imho even better lol
 and that for that price... What
  
 now onto cygnus v rx-1 / asura 2 v rx-1


----------



## golov17

Del


----------



## fairx

leobigfield said:


> Could someone please test the RX-1 with double monk+ foam covers and tell me how they respond? Thanks




Just tried. Unfortunately I didn't like it very much. boomy and kinda distant sounding. I get the feeling bass is spilling too. Resolution also suffers. IMO. 

But that just me. Maybe others can chip in


----------



## SuperMAG

great thanks. got all i need to know about rx1, it's not for me.


----------



## raze94

kurtextrem said:


> Woooooooooow now I understand what the RX-1 package is all about. It looks like I got a package from Apple, imho even better lol
> and that for that price... What
> 
> now onto cygnus v rx-1 / asura 2 v rx-1


 

 Packaging and inclusions are great, but that smell though! I think its from the varnish used in the wood display case.


----------



## leobigfield

fairx said:


> Just tried. Unfortunately I didn't like it very much. boomy and kinda distant sounding. I get the feeling bass is spilling too. Resolution also suffers. IMO.
> 
> But that just me. Maybe others can chip in




Thanks for the effort! Was it the thin foams, right? Thanks again!


----------



## kurtextrem

The fit of the RX-1 is perfect without foams for me. Like Cygnus with its stock foams (but I use monk+ think foams on Cygnus)....
 Tried getting the stock donuts on the RX-1, but I'm not even sure if that shell is even meant for foams lol can't get the foam on; and it looks like the hole is not even wide?


----------



## fairx

leobigfield said:


> Thanks for the effort! Was it the thin foams, right? Thanks again!



No problem mate. Yes the porous thin foam. Nearly tore them to put lol. But it's ok I have many from ex pack.


----------



## Tympan

RX1 was underwhelming to me at first too for the same reasons other have mentioned: fit, lack of bass, and a bit too mid centric for my current preferences.
 Although it has a 14.8mm driver like the Cygnus and Cygnus fits me like a glove, the RX1 doesn't fit me correctly. Well, it didn't, now I can get much more out of it. Took some serious fiddling but I am starting to see what's going on: 
  
 RX1 metal stems (where the cable goes through to reach the shell) are just a fraction too close to my ear lobs for me to push the drivers where they should sit. In addition, the metal shells are heavier than Cygnus plastic and so the shells have a tendency to drop at an angle an little, instead of facing the ear canal flat.
 These completely kill the bass impact, texture, and quantity for me. And since the RX1 are mid forward in nature, it makes them sound overly mid centric, a bit high pitch and overly clear sounding.
  
 My son has very small ears and kept telling me the RX1's bass is excellent so I tried more things:
 full thin foam + donut on each and now, I too am getting a much fuller/richer sound. Plus, the thin foams seem to tame the mid-centric characteristic just enough to solve all my initial problems with RX1.
  
 It is still a mid centric earphone but much more balanced than I initially though. And the bass is indeed very textured and defined. I can see why those with smaller ears and shallower ear canals love the RX1 and those with deeper ear canals don't.
 Makes me feel a little better for the maker because judging by packaging, accessories, unique shell, competitive price tag... it's obvious he's worked very hard to offer a worthy model to the earphone community. 
  
 Personally, the only reason I'd put it above the Cygnus is for its value. As far as sound, they are different and rating is just a matter of preference once again!


----------



## Tympan

raze94 said:


> Packaging and inclusions are great, but that smell though! I think its from the varnish used in the wood display case.


 

 it's the rubber rings. I know, it knocked my socks off


----------



## kurtextrem

Hm, seems like I was wrong about the fit. Thought they'd be sitting in correctly, but after fiddling the stock donuts on the sound is louder and better. Also tried the monk+ foams, but sounds like without foams.
 Cygnus vs RX-1 is a close call for me too. But I think Cygnus is slightly more detailed.


----------



## Tympan

kurtextrem said:


> Cygnus vs RX-1 is a close call for me too. But I think Cygnus is slightly more detailed.


 
 I think so too. But with proper fit, RX1 bass is more controlled, faster and more textured? (from memory, I don't have Cygnus any more)


----------



## jamesbdh

Is there a place to just buy the rings?


----------



## vapman

jamesbdh said:


> Is there a place to just buy the rings?


 
 you can, they are a sennheiser replacement part, and you will spend nearly $20 shipped for 5 pairs (10 total).
  
 i would personally rather have 4 monk EX packs and by extension 16 rings total for  $20.


----------



## golov17

jamesbdh said:


> Is there a place to just buy the rings?


 http://s.aliexpress.com/U7rIfqIr


----------



## jamesbdh

golov17 said:


> Judging by the specifications, will be a model Auglamour RX-1S with microphone


 
 Any new information?  Would love to buy 2


----------



## golov17

jamesbdh said:


> Any new information?  Would love to buy 2


not yet more..


----------



## jant71

Had these caps from an old Philips sports earbud....


 ...they match the RX-1 nice, fit perfect and build up the outside some. These plus thicker foams seem pretty nice so far. Fit is more locked in stable but the bass is only a slight bit more.
  
 I wonder if someone sells CP300 style rings; more oval with a rear protruding edge. Buds need to stop being so circular as the dang part of the ear they fit into isn't a circle


----------



## ozkan

So are you guys saying that the RX-1 is more balanced than the Monk plus?


----------



## vapman

They are closer to the Zens than the Monk Pluses. mids are forward like the Zen.


----------



## audio123

ozkan said:


> So are you guys saying that the RX-1 is more balanced than the Monk plus?


 
 the rx1 is not in the same league as monk+


----------



## kinetic758

It's Friday. I've been drinking. That usually means I start buying things. Should I get the Sennheiser MX985? I really am curious as to how they sound. I really like my Mojito for their soundstage and clarity. Are the Senns comparable?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kinetic758 said:


> It's Friday. I've been drinking. That usually means I start buying things. Should I get the Sennheiser MX985? I really am curious as to how they sound. I really like my Mojito for their soundstage and clarity. Are the Senns comparable?




Take this with a grain of salt but I tried both and hated Sennheisers.

If you want to buy something, get Ostry KC08t. It has V shape signature. Really good bass and treble.


----------



## kinetic758

tayyab pirzada said:


> Take this with a grain of salt but I tried both and hated Sennheisers.
> 
> If you want to buy something, get Ostry KC08t. It has V shape signature. Really good bass and treble.




Thank you sir. How's the KC08T bass compared to the Mojito in terms of extension and slam?

And what did you hate about the sennheisers?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kinetic758 said:


> Thank you sir. How's the KC08T bass compared to the Mojito in terms of extension and slam?




Better bass


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Mx985 i just didnt like. They sounded flat to my ears. After Mojito they just didnt compare.


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> Take this with a grain of salt but I tried both and hated Sennheisers.
> 
> If you want to buy something, get Ostry KC08t. It has V shape signature. Really good bass and treble.


+1000


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tympan said:


> (after I order a mojito)


 
 That's the spirit mate!
  


music4mhell said:


> No aliexpress link ?


 
 I am afraid no, I am sorry as I only purchase directly off of Taobao
  


music4mhell said:


> When ever i used Donut foam on any earbud, i nev got it right,
> But on Mojito, whao, Donut bud doesn't come out  Atlas, i got the combo, Hiegi Donut Foam+Mojito
> 
> Now i realized what i was missing with full foams with Mojito


 
 Wait till you go pure rubber rings
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 But I find that Monk+ foams with rubber ring gives me the perfect Soungsig as well as fit.
  


golov17 said:


> stuck somewhere in the recesses of post delivery ....


----------



## AudioNewbi3

RX-1 1st Impressions:
  
 Prominent Mids
 Narrow and Shallow Soundstaging
 Good Details
 Mids are upfront whilst bass and highs are somewhat "dislocated" from it
 Can sound congested at times
 Earbuds are too small even with Heigi doughnuts, have to wear them IEM style as mention by Sir Vapman.
  
 Gonna give it a minimum of 150 hours of burn in before I give them a serious listen.
 It has almost the same characteristics of the Cygnus during its initial phase.


----------



## kinetic758

golov17 said:


> +1000




Any sonic differences between the KC08 and KC08T?


----------



## golov17

kinetic758 said:


> Any sonic differences between the KC08 and KC08T?


No idea..


----------



## ld100

RX-1 fit seems perfect to be. Very comfortable. Soundwise I really like them, but need to test after burn in... For the price they are amazing.


----------



## golov17

ld100 said:


> RX-1 fit seems perfect to be. Very comfortable. Soundwise I really like them, but need to test after burn in... For the price they are amazing.


 after Yuins and Cygnus is a real find for fans of earbuds with small ears..


----------



## rggz

That's a cool thing for me, my ears are very small and the typical MX500 shell constantly fails on my left ear then I need to use an earhoox for stabilising it. 

 Btw, has someone tried to block the air vents of RX-1 w/ some tape to see what does it change?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Someone stop me from getting Zen 2 black edition...


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> Someone stop me from getting Zen 2 black edition...




Well, well... shouldn't have stepped up in here demanding the top shelf buds then!!


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Nevermind...too expensive lol. Ill wait for Nirvana.


----------



## vapman

Awww... I was wondering forward to a review! 


Get the normal zen 2 then?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I dnno if i should...i have been told that with my tastes i wont like it. Not sure what to believe..


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Well, well... shouldn't have stepped up in here demanding the top shelf buds then!!


+10000


----------



## kurtextrem

tayyab pirzada said:


> Nevermind...too expensive lol. Ill wait for Nirvana.


 
 I heard it will be twice the Zen 2.0, just saying...


----------



## Danneq

kinetic758 said:


> It's Friday. I've been drinking. That usually means I start buying things. Should I get the Sennheiser MX985? I really am curious as to how they sound. I really like my Mojito for their soundstage and clarity. Are the Senns comparable?




Haven't heard Mojito, but I'd compare MX985 with VE Zen2 in soundstage and clarity. There's no real "wow" factor with MX985. They just do everything (perhaps except sub bass) extremely well. They are very neutral and pretty much present the music as it is. They are my number 3 after Blox TM7 and Sony MDR E252. Ahead of VE Zen 1 & 2. If you find a pair for around. $150 it's a sure buy. If it's more, think twice...


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

danneq said:


> Haven't heard Mojito, but I'd compare MX985 with VE Zen2 in soundstage and clarity. There's no real "wow" factor with MX985. They just do everything (perhaps except sub bass) extremely well. They are very neutral and pretty much present the music as it is. They are my number 3 after Blox TM7 and Sony MDR E252. Ahead of VE Zen 1 & 2. If you find a pair for around. $150 it's a sure buy. If it's more, think twice...




Wait till you hear Mojito...


----------



## haiku

Maybe, I´ll pull the trigger and order these little babies, who knows....?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  http://www.taobaocart.com/Product/534517858212/
  
 "Ultra Ultra High End", Tayyab!!!


----------



## vapman

Haha I was at my parents house, found these in my old room. Did anyone else rock these in the 90s? Almost wanna put a new battery in... hahaha


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> There's no real "wow" factor with MX985. They just do everything (perhaps except sub bass) extremely well. They are very neutral and pretty much present the music as it is.


 
  
 And that's it. Best three sentence description of MX985. Nothing more needs to be added.


----------



## ozkan

audio123 said:


> the rx1 is not in the same league as monk+




Which league are they in? Champions league?


----------



## Danneq

tayyab pirzada said:


> Wait till you hear Mojito...




Yeah. But I doubt that Mojito can beat the soundstage and clarity of Aiwa HP D9...


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

danneq said:


> Yeah. But I doubt that Mojito can beat the soundstage and clarity of Aiwa HP D9...




Beats bass tho


----------



## Danneq

Yeah. AuGlamour RX-1 are bass monsters compared to the Aiwas...


----------



## haiku

tayyab pirzada said:


> Beats bass tho


 

 Seriously, I don´t think any other earbud beats the LD-3.0 400 Ohm, when it comes to the sheer amount of bass the babies are producing. The quality is another thing....


----------



## AudioNewbi3

audionewbi3 said:


> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5-c.w4002-3834745461.25.caw9ge&id=534517858212
> 600 Ohm
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5-c.w4002-3834745461.22.eRLGMC&id=534582316342
> ...


 
  
  


haiku said:


> Maybe, I´ll pull the trigger and order these little babies, who knows....?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 FWIW, if you are really going to buy it, I think PureSounds have better built quality.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

New earbuds with detachable cable from the creaters of DAIK PU
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.51.tQjyBh&id=536238357961&ns=1&abbucket=5#detail


----------



## audio123

adel earbuds
  
*Features*

 Fit: *Universal w/foam and silicone tips*
 Transducer type: *Single full-range 9mm dynamic driver*

*Technical Details*

 Impedance: *30 Ohms*
 Sensitivity: *+/- 112dB SPL @ 1mW*
 Freq. Response: *30Hz – 18 kHz*
 Noise Isolation: *Adjustable via ADEL™ technology*
  
 https://asius.myshopify.com/collections/all/products/adel-earbuds


----------



## ngoshawk

audionewbi3 said:


> RX-1 1st Impressions:
> 
> Prominent Mids
> Narrow and Shallow Soundstaging
> ...




Thanks for the impressions. Mine mysteriously jumped from China to Chicago without leaving the ground! (Via the AliExpress app)...

We will see!


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> adel earbuds
> 
> [COLOR=990000]*Features*[/COLOR]
> 
> ...


----------



## music4mhell

audio123 said:


> adel earbuds
> 
> [COLOR=990000]*Features*[/COLOR]
> 
> ...


This is not an earbud.


----------



## audio123

On the website, it says earbuds oo


----------



## luedriver

you can't go on terminology alone, since there is none, earbuds or earphones, for those who know mean flat earbuds but some people use the same word for in ears


----------



## golov17

luedriver said:


> you can't go on terminology alone, since there is none, earbuds or earphones, for those who know mean flat earbuds but some people use the same word for in ears


 but we all know where the dog is buried, lol


----------



## luedriver

del


----------



## Tomasz2D

haiku said:


> Seriously, I don´t think any other earbud beats the LD-3.0 400 Ohm, when it comes to the sheer amount of bass the babies are producing. The quality is another thing....


 
  
 Dunu Alpha 1 does... at least if what I own and compare it to is LD-3.0. For sure it is not LD-4.0 but the question is - have there ever been LD-1.0 or LD-2.0 available on the market?


----------



## kinetic758

danneq said:


> Haven't heard Mojito, but I'd compare MX985 with VE Zen2 in soundstage and clarity. There's no real "wow" factor with MX985. They just do everything (perhaps except sub bass) extremely well. They are very neutral and pretty much present the music as it is. They are my number 3 after Blox TM7 and Sony MDR E252. Ahead of VE Zen 1 & 2. If you find a pair for around. $150 it's a sure buy. If it's more, think twice...




Thanks. The MX985 sound seems like something I would enjoy then. I feel the Mojito is also on the neutral side with slightly elevated treble so I'm surprised that fans of the Mojito don't enjoy the Senns as well. 

The only issue: they're priced at $219. Do you think they're worth it at that price?


----------



## kinetic758

haiku said:


> Maybe, I´ll pull the trigger and order these little babies, who knows....?
> 
> http://www.taobaocart.com/Product/534517858212/
> 
> "Ultra Ultra High End", Tayyab!!!




ULTRA!!! 

Those do look nice though.


----------



## ld100

golov17 said:


> after Yuins and Cygnus is a real find for fans of earbuds with small ears..




I can see how it can get higher rating than Cygnus. They are are just very 'pleasant' to listen to. A lot of shortcomings, but lots of good things about them. Not crazy about the cable, but for the money hard to complain. I might get a second color just for kicks.


----------



## Danneq

kinetic758 said:


> Thanks. The MX985 sound seems like something I would enjoy then. I feel the Mojito is also on the neutral side with slightly elevated treble so I'm surprised that fans of the Mojito don't enjoy the Senns as well.
> 
> The only issue: they're priced at $219. Do you think they're worth it at that price?




$219 is a bit high. On the other hand they have been discontinued for 2 years or so. If I were you I would wait and hope to find a cheaper second hand pair. But then again, prices will probably go up...


----------



## kinetic758

tayyab pirzada said:


> Nevermind...too expensive lol. Ill wait for Nirvana.




Ultra ultra high end normally means expensive. Just sayin... 

I'm thinking of getting the plain Zen 2.0 myself.


----------



## haiku

kinetic758 said:


> Ultra ultra high end normally means expensive. Just sayin...
> 
> I'm thinking of getting the plain Zen 2.0 myself.


 

 If I´d go the VE Route, I´d go straight to the Black Zen. *Remember, LIFETIME WARRANTY!*


----------



## jamesbdh

joy boy said:


> May be you got a defect one?
> Because jiushao e300 is one of my best budget champion. I really mean it.
> Price to performance is on monk level. Not my top 10 generally, but certainly on my top 10 low-budget bud together with monk, sabia, suvov, vido, etc.
> Even i will undoubtedly choose e300 than e600.
> But yeah, sound is all about personal taste. May be it's just not the sound you've searched for. Or may be you got a defect one. Who knows


 
 I might suggest this to be the case.  I ordered the e600 with a mic but got the normal one.  I tried it while i waited for a replacement and it was the same boomy crap.  terrible distortion, tried burn in etc.  I ended up giving them away but the replacement came the other day and it is actually pretty good.  I think the first one was a dud.


----------



## chicken beer

tayyab pirzada said:


> The only way Mojito can be made better is if the vocals and mids are made less recessed. It is truly a perfect bud in my opinion.


 
  
 I heard Mojito has fit issues. To me that's one of the major advantage of earbuds so I did not try them yet.


----------



## chicken beer

danneq said:


> Haven't heard Mojito, but I'd compare MX985 with VE Zen2 in soundstage and clarity. There's no real "wow" factor with MX985. They just do everything (perhaps except sub bass) extremely well. They are very neutral and pretty much present the music as it is. They are my number 3 after Blox TM7 and Sony MDR E252. Ahead of VE Zen 1 & 2. If you find a pair for around. $150 it's a sure buy. If it's more, think twice...


 
  
 Should give E252 a try next time. Blox should really think twice about not making earbuds these days especially considering the great reputation they have. Gotta give them a try when there's chance.
  
 985 I think is a great IEM, the only problem is they want to achieve that Senn signature but 99% buyers would choose HD600/650. 985 will be my next earbud to sell honestly.


----------



## chicken beer

haiku said:


> If I´d go the VE Route, I´d go straight to the Black Zen. *Remember, LIFETIME WARRANTY!*


 
 Which is short, man!


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

chicken beer said:


> I heard Mojito has fit issues. To me that's one of the major advantage of earbuds so I did not try them yet.




Use Monk+ foams and they fit fine for me


----------



## chicken beer

tayyab pirzada said:


> Use Monk+ foams and they fit fine for me




Good to know!


----------



## annapan2009

how to diy earphone
 First ，Means for tuning cotton, cable, earphone housing
 Second，Cotton stick mixer, cables
 Third，Sealed enclosure
 http://pt.aliexpress.com/store/product/YMHFPJ-diy-Black-MX500-Earphone-Wired-Headset-120-degree-Cable-earbuds-For-Samsung-iPhone-xiaomi/1396671_32705361770.html


----------



## kinetic758

haiku said:


> If I´d go the VE Route, I´d go straight to the Black Zen. *Remember, LIFETIME WARRANTY!*




Yes, Zen 2.0 Black or normal are very likely going to be my next purchase. However, I first need to find a portable amp that can do them justice. Any recommendations?


----------



## Saoshyant

Depends how portable you need, RSA Shadow is about as portable as it gets and I'd be surprised if it can't handle the Zen. It's arguably the best tiny amp around, and didn't take me long at all to find one once I started looking. I've talked to a few people that put it above the Cayin C5 which is well respected.


----------



## kinetic758

saoshyant said:


> Depends how portable you need, RSA Shadow is about as portable as it gets and I'd be surprised if it can't handle the Zen. It's arguably the best tiny amp around, and didn't take me long at all to find one once I started looking. I've talked to a few people that put it above the Cayin C5 which is well respected.




Thanks. The product description of that amp says it's not designed for high impedance headphones. However, you think the zen will be fine?


----------



## Saoshyant

I'd do some research first, but the Zen's sensitivity is pretty high, so that works in its favor. If you just need something like the Cayin C5 that'll have enough power to drive Audeze, and those are power hungry. I know others will have tons of recommendations.


----------



## golov17

Zen2.0 have 290 Ohm, i use this right now with Shanling m5 (30 mW/300 Ohm), sounds great!


----------



## ozkan

kinetic758 said:


> Yes, Zen 2.0 Black or normal are very likely going to be my next purchase. However, I first need to find a portable amp that can do them justice. Any recommendations?




Mojo


----------



## Danneq

chicken beer said:


> Should give E252 a try next time. Blox should really think twice about not making earbuds these days especially considering the great reputation they have. Gotta give them a try when there's chance.
> 
> 985 I think is a great IEM, the only problem is they want to achieve that Senn signature but 99% buyers would choose HD600/650. 985 will be my next earbud to sell honestly.




E252 might be difficult to find considering they were discontinued 1985 or '86. It was Sony's first go at a high end earbud when it was released in 1982. Not as sought after as later models E282 and E484, but I think E252 is better than the other two. I got my pair for around $250 on Ebay, NIB.

Hopefully Blox will release a new flagship earbud next year. They are working on drivers but it's taking its time...


----------



## chicken beer

I really digging into it, you're right!


----------



## chicken beer

danneq said:


> E252 might be difficult to find considering they were discontinued 1985 or '86. It was Sony's first go at a high end earbud when it was released in 1982. Not as sought after as later models E282 and E484, but I think E252 is better than the other two. I got my pair for around $250 on Ebay, NIB.
> 
> Hopefully Blox will release a new flagship earbud next year. They are working on drivers but it's taking its time...




Will buy for sure when I have chance, either bloc or e252!!


----------



## jant71

So, anyone think the RX-1 is a bit too shallow between the housing and driver? No real dip there is something they can improve on. They kinda just sit on top instead of nestling down in the ear and there and giving both the best amount of bass and a more stable fit. I mean there is a slight crook but you need a decently deep V or U shape. More than what they have would be better I think 
  
 Perhaps the visual...
 RX-1 is a bit flower pot like in shape going to the driver edge...

 but could be more horn shaped...

  
 Just a thought for the RX-2 perhaps.


----------



## kinetic758

golov17 said:


> Zen2.0 have 290 Ohm, i use this right now with Shanling m5 (30 mW/300 Ohm), sounds great!




Thanks! Heard any good things about V-MODA VAMP Verza?


----------



## vapman

@jant71 I agree 100% - i have been doing the IEM style over the ear wearing of the RX 1 because - just as you say - the fit has to be _just right_ or you don't get all that wonderful bass.
  
 I can't lie though.... I've only been using my T-Music's for the 4 or 5 days and nothing else... they are just really fun and relaxed. good warm sound. lots of bass. not too picky about fit to get the best sound. mids are just so smooth and clear. Too good for the price. I have a feeling these T-Musics might get slept on, hyped up, and interest could boom.  I have that feeling that it's a hit that is going to take a while before it's recognized as such. Noise Cancelling Bass all 2016 long.


----------



## ld100

Is this something worth getting? $12 on Ali...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> I can't lie though.... I've only been using my T-Music's for the 4 or 5 days and nothing else... they are just really fun and relaxed. good warm sound. lots of bass. not too picky about fit to get the best sound. mids are just so smooth and clear. Too good for the price. I have a feeling these T-Musics might get slept on, hyped up, and interest could boom.  I have that feeling that it's a hit that is going to take a while before it's recognized as such. Noise Cancelling Bass all 2016 long.




This is exactly what I want to hear. Mine are in my state and I get them within the next couple of days.


----------



## vapman

I hope they live up to the expectations I've established! Very eager to hear your thoughts on em


----------



## golov17

ld100 said:


> Is this something worth getting? $12 on Ali...


i got them for $9, not bad..


----------



## rggz

golov17 said:


> i got them for $9, not bad..


 

 Is this cable the same of old Asura from VE? I bought only the cable for $11 +driver I think I don't make a good buy lol at least with some Switchcraft connector will look better haha.


----------



## golov17

rggz said:


> Is this cable the same of old Asura from VE? I bought only the cable for $11 +driver I think I don't make a good buy lol at least with some Switchcraft connector will look better haha.


nonono, cable more thin


----------



## golov17

http://s.aliexpress.com/vMZjYvqY
Beta Asura cable $3,91


----------



## rggz

golov17 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/vMZjYvqY
> Beta Asura cable $3,91


 

 Holy Schiit! I've bought the same cable (or very similar unit) from this seller for $11.88 I could have bought a Monk+ if I had seen it before, but... too late now.  At least the 300 Ohms driver worth every penny by the Thai guys then isn't that bad.


----------



## golov17

VE > Fareal > Seahf


----------



## Lionlian

Hi, What is the best earbuds for vocal in this era? , due to the TM7 are discontinued.


----------



## mebaali

golov17 said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks, Brother Golov!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I was on look out for a cheap cable, this seems perfect for my DIY attempts.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

lionlian said:


> Hi, What is the best earbuds for vocal in this era? , due to the TM7 are discontinued.




Imo Shozy Cygnus. But many say Zen 2.0.


----------



## golov17

lionlian said:


> Hi, What is the best earbuds for vocal in this era? , due to the TM7 are discontinued.


Zen2.0


----------



## golov17

mebaali said:


> Thanks, Brother Golov!
> 
> I was on look out for a cheap cable, this seems perfect for my DIY attempts.


 New Arrival 90 Degree Audio Jack Carbon Rhodium-plated Earphone Adapter For DIY Stereo Earphone or Used for Repair Earphone
 http://s.aliexpress.com/uemeMfmA
3.5mm Silver plated high quality DIY weave Headphone cable Earphone audio cable repair upgrade wire Without MIC
 http://s.aliexpress.com/7JzyMzYn 
High Quality Transparent 5N OCC Silver Plated 4 Wire Pure Silver Plated UE900 Headphone Cable DIY Earphone Audio Wire
 http://s.aliexpress.com/bYrQfqIV


----------



## springbay

vapman said:


> I've only been using my T-Music's for the 4 or 5 days and nothing else...


 
  
 lol, this week it's the T-Music's. Last week it was the RX-1 and before that it was the Edimun. Your love is intense but don't last long.
  
 My love for the Boarseman MX98s is still going strong. It needs some good foams. Paired with the VE RA 2.0 I get the most engaging, yet relaxed, experience I've had for quite a while. It's not for anyone though. Most people would probably call them veiled with my thick layers of double foams. They are not neutral at all with all these foams. But I guess I've found what others loved with the Tomahawks with this setup.


----------



## golov17

springbay said:


> lol, this week it's the T-Music's. Last week it was the RX-1 and before that it was the Edimun. Your love is intense but don't last long.
> 
> My love for the Boarseman MX98s is still going strong. It needs some good foams. Paired with the VE RA 2.0 I get the most engaging, yet relaxed, experience I've had for quite a while. It's not for anyone though. Most people would probably call them veiled with my thick layers of double foams. They are not neutral at all with all these foams. But I guess I've found what others loved with the Tomahawks with this setup.


Absolutely love this buds with MP foams!


----------



## rggz

tayyab pirzada said:


> Imo Shozy Cygnus. But many say Zen 2.0.


 

 Btw, that's a cool chance for you test the Zen 2.0 they're on sales area now for $95_ (and Yuin PK1 for $45 looks a crazy deal - but I think Cygnus better overall and easy to drive)_


----------



## vapman

springbay said:


> lol, this week it's the T-Music's. Last week it was the RX-1 and before that it was the Edimun. Your love is intense but don't last long.


 
 Hah! not gonna argue there at all!
  
 To be honest.... most of my buds really do not see much use unless i want their specific signature for something. I like to collect them and get to know their different sounds but I rarely deviate from my main setups. That would be the monk plus, edimun, and the SZ2000 (not an earbud).
  
 The other ones I make time for and I do like to post my findings of all new buds here, but the reality is most get sold or left in a case! I don't keep too many on hand. I have a lot of sets of monk pluses and original monks but the Edimun is the next longest lasting bud in my collection. If I ever got a hold of something hard to come by like a vintage sony or aiwa for a really nice price or something of legend like the blox or zen 1 but who knows if i'd keep any of  them for over a week?
  
 Mojito made me want to stop collecting and ironically that's why i got rid of it.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

springbay said:


> lol, this week it's the T-Music's. Last week it was the RX-1 and before that it was the Edimun. Your love is intense but don't last long.
> 
> My love for the Boarseman MX98s is still going strong. It needs some good foams. Paired with the VE RA 2.0 I get the most engaging, yet relaxed, experience I've had for quite a while. It's not for anyone though. Most people would probably call them veiled with my thick layers of double foams. They are not neutral at all with all these foams. But I guess I've found what others loved with the Tomahawks with this setup.




Im still hopelessly in love with Rose Mojito


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

rggz said:


> Btw, that's a cool chance for you test the Zen 2.0 they're on sales area now for $95_ (and Yuin PK1 for $45 looks a crazy deal - but I think Cygnus better overall and easy to drive)_




Thanks for heads up


----------



## dearyon

tayyab pirzada said:


> Thanks for heads up


 
 wow! nice sir Tayyab!
 I'm waiting for your impression of Zen 2 (although there are already so many people reviewing it) and how does it compare to Mojito without a RA
 I would call Zen 2 without RA a 'nerfed Zen 2'


----------



## luedriver

does anyone think the the previous monks are worth $30 aud?
  
 someone here mentioned that they have a very unique sound signature and the only ones comparable were sennheisers mx475 which here cost $45 aud...
  
 on another note, I see Sony MDRE9LPB everywhere, are they worth anything, being of the name sony, they priced from 9 to 16 aud, just curious
  
 also, where are the zen 2.0 on sale? just curious more than anything, as I can't find anything online


----------



## slappypete

Hey guys. Could someone please link me to the "thai 300 ohm" driver I saw mentioned in this thread? I Ordered an rx-1, likely fake "x3 ting", and a few pairs of monk+ after scouring this thread the last few days. I plan on listening, tinkering, modding, and measuring when I receive them all. I'd like to build a DIY set as well, hence the interest in the 300 ohm driver. I will upload some measurements here for you guys in a few weeks with results of any modifications and comparisons. I've always liked the comfort and soundstage of buds compared to iem's but never had a good pair. I assumed they didn't exist lol. I look forward to seeing what some of these can do. I find full size cans fatiguing after a few hours and hot in the summer time, so these will probably get a lot of use. Thanks.


----------



## haiku

luedriver said:


> does anyone think the the previous monks are worth $30 aud?
> 
> someone here mentioned that they have a very unique sound signature and the only ones comparable were sennheisers mx475 which here cost $45 aud...


 
  
 To me they are, that´s why I ordered 9 from Russia once. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I´m still in love with the old Monks, though I have to admit that now I like the Seahf sound signature much more. That´s why I don´t spend much time atm with the Monks.


----------



## vapman

luedriver said:


> does anyone think the the previous monks are worth $30 aud?
> 
> someone here mentioned that they have a very unique sound signature and the only ones comparable were sennheisers mx475 which here cost $45 aud...
> 
> ...


 

 NO!!!!
  
 i have probably 6 pairs, given out at least that many, would never pay more than 10 for one even today!
  
 if you want something under $10 range cheap and different enough from the monk plus,,, i say get one of the edifiers. or most mx500 clones wannabes.


----------



## rggz

slappypete said:


> Hey guys. Could someone please link me to the "thai 300 ohm" driver I saw mentioned in this thread? I Ordered an rx-1, likely fake "x3 ting", and a few pairs of monk+ after scouring this thread the last few days. I plan on listening, tinkering, modding, and measuring when I receive them all. I'd like to build a DIY set as well, hence the interest in the 300 ohm driver. I will upload some measurements here for you guys in a few weeks with results of any modifications and comparisons. I've always liked the comfort and soundstage of buds compared to iem's but never had a good pair. I assumed they didn't exist lol. I look forward to seeing what some of these can do. I find full size cans fatiguing after a few hours and hot in the summer time, so these will probably get a lot of use. Thanks.


 

 I think I was talking about it, they aren't made in Thai, just some DIYers from Thai uses that driver for their mods you can find the drivers here and I really recommend you buy some units of those cotton item for tuning the drivers, you can PM the seller asking for units and also ask some discount and probably he'll adjust the price for you! Good luck on your DIY journey, I'm loving the results of my DIY earbuds atm.


----------



## slappypete

Thanks for the info, much appreciated! If I figure out a good build I'll post the details and measurements in here for you guys.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Well, I just bought Zen 2.0 finally


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> Well, I just bought Zen 2.0 finally


finally


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

dearyon said:


> wow! nice sir Tayyab!
> 
> I'm waiting for your impression of Zen 2 (although there are already so many people reviewing it) and how does it compare to Mojito without a RA
> 
> I would call Zen 2 without RA a 'nerfed Zen 2'




I will give my thoughts on Zen 2. I wonder if they will beat Mojito. Probably not though.


----------



## rggz

slappypete said:


> Thanks for the info, much appreciated! If I figure out a good build I'll post the details and measurements in here for you guys.


 

 No problem, but make sure you have an amp those drivers aren't that easy to drive from normal sources.


----------



## kinetic758

rggz said:


> No problem, but make sure you have an amp those drivers aren't that easy to drive from normal sources.




Thinking of getting an Oppo HA-2 so I can finally try some of these harder to drive buds! Any others I should look at around that price range? 

Either that or just go all the way and get the MOJO.


----------



## haiku

kinetic758 said:


> Thinking of getting an Oppo HA-2 so I can finally try some of these harder to drive buds! Any others I should look at around that price range?
> 
> Either that or just go all the way and get the MOJO.


 

 Mojo


----------



## Tomasz2D

luedriver said:


> does anyone think the the previous monks are worth $30 aud?
> 
> someone here mentioned that they have a very unique sound signature and the only ones comparable were sennheisers mx475 which here cost $45 aud...


 
 I think you mean my post here http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/6690#post_12731716
 So since then the situation has changes because now I own TY Hi-Z HP-32 32 Ohm and both original Monk and TY Hi-Z HP-32 32 Ohm allegedly come from the same creator "bug guy".
  
 So yes they sound very similar. All differences are just by "a little".
 Monk is a little more on the brighter side and TY a little more on the darker side.
 Monk is a little more airy.
 TY is a little more refined.
 Monk is a little more on the "fun" side and TY is a litlle more "mature" sounding.
 TY has a little better bass.
  
 If I would have to choose the one I would choose TY.
  
 Also build is identical:


----------



## Fabi

Our master of earbuds just added a new pair in his ranking, Moondrop VX Pro, the baby Mojito. 
Open your wallet !


----------



## dearyon

luedriver said:


> does anyone think the the previous monks are worth $30 aud?
> 
> someone here mentioned that they have a very unique sound signature and the only ones comparable were sennheisers mx475 which here cost $45 aud...
> 
> ...


 
 just buy TY Hi-Z 32 ohm if you want old Monk sound signature, I heard from impression they are very similar there are some people saying that TY Hi-Z are actually better than old Monk. CMIIW.
  


tayyab pirzada said:


> I will give my thoughts on Zen 2. I wonder if they will beat Mojito. Probably not though.


 
 I doubt Zen 2 will beat Mojito in your ears. Different signature. Warm vs Cold. Dark vs Bright.
 I think you will dislike them but let see...
  


kinetic758 said:


> Thinking of getting an Oppo HA-2 so I can finally try some of these harder to drive buds! Any others I should look at around that price range?
> 
> Either that or just go all the way and get the MOJO.


 
 Mojo


----------



## ozkan

luedriver said:


> does anyone think the the previous monks are worth $30 aud?
> 
> someone here mentioned that they have a very unique sound signature and the only ones comparable were sennheisers mx475 which here cost $45 aud...
> 
> ...




IMHO they are easily worth $30-100. They beat some of my IEMs that are at least 10X expensive than the Monk.


----------



## kurtextrem

fabi said:


> Our master of earbuds just added a new pair in his ranking, Moondrop VX Pro, the baby Mojito.
> Open your wallet !


 
 oh no... 
 but well, I'll skip this time. That size is not my type and the DIY Dual driver are well enough for that kind of style I guess....
  
 btw. I'm very happy with the AX-1 for gaming. I've put donuts on and since that never looked back


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Remember you only have two ears lol


----------



## Sempenyi

*Moondrop (水月雨) VX Pro*

 http://moondrop.cn/pd.jsp?id=1&_jcp=2

 https://world.taobao.com/item/534587087587.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.0T63YL#detail


----------



## golov17

kurtextrem said:


> oh no... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Earphone-Earbud-M1N-VX-Moondrop-VX-Small-Driver-Neutral-Sound-/222195986323?hash=item33bbe9af93:g:bIEAAOSwqBJXWEuU
> 
> but well, I'll skip this time. That size is not my type and the DIY Dual driver are well enough for that kind of style I guess....
> 
> btw. I'm very happy with the AX-1 for gaming. I've put donuts on and since that never looked back


 this not Pro..


----------



## haiku

sempenyi said:


> *Moondrop (水月雨) VX Pro*
> 
> http://moondrop.cn/pd.jsp?id=1&_jcp=2
> 
> https://world.taobao.com/item/534587087587.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.0T63YL#detail


 

 Hate the looks, yuk.... If it´s not MX500 shell, it ain´t for me.


----------



## Sempenyi

haiku said:


> Hate the looks, yuk.... If it´s not MX500 shell, it ain´t for me.


 
 kind of the shape of baldoor e100.


----------



## dearyon

haiku said:


> Hate the looks, yuk.... *If it´s not MX500 shell, it ain´t for me.*


 
 THIS!
 I really love that generic housing, low profile and fit perfectly in my ears even without foam


----------



## haiku

dearyon said:


> THIS!
> I really love that generic housing, low profile and fit perfectly in my ears even without foam


 

 Exactly!
  
 Now, I want to know how 500 ohm earbuds sound like. Just pulled the trigger on these nicely made babies
  
 http://www.taobaocart.com/Product/534582316342/
  
 Should arrive next week....  Ultra High End, yo!


----------



## dearyon

haiku said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Now, I want to know how 500 ohm earbuds sound like. Just pulled the trigger on these nicely made babies
> 
> ...


 
 what?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Okay sir haiku... I'm waiting for your impression 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 hope they live up to their price tag


----------



## oopeteroo

So the mids/vocal is better in cygnus than rx-1?


----------



## haiku

dearyon said:


> what?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Me too.
 Tbh, I already enjoy the Seahf LD-3.0 400 Ohm a lot. Atm, I´m listening to Moody Blues´ "On the Threshold of a Dream". Awesome sonic experience with the 3.0, but as I said, they only sound great when you feed ´em high quality stuff.


----------



## golov17

haiku said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Now, I want to know how 500 ohm earbuds sound like. Just pulled the trigger on these nicely made babies
> 
> ...


Wow! 172 USD


----------



## golov17

btw, discount 31% on Fareal300  
http://s.aliexpress.com/mmQzMNNj


----------



## haiku

golov17 said:


> Wow! 172 USD


 

 Yeah, but go to specs and look at the accessories that come with the buds. The wooden box, leather pouch, leather clip. Looks like high quality.


----------



## golov17

haiku said:


> Yeah, but go to specs and look at the accessories that come with the buds. The wooden box, leather pouch, leather clip. Looks like high quality.


yep..


----------



## vapman

oopeteroo said:


> So the mids/vocal is better in cygnus than rx-1?


 
 yup, same signature basically, cygnus more refined and better details.
  
 Still using monk plus nonstop despite owning all my others.... Tonight used my monk plus to record in the studio, i use it to monitor everything even when it is day time and i can use speakers 
  
 I feel as though having a lot of accessories used to make expensive earbuds make more sense.... but the RX1 is under $20 and comes with more accessories i have got from ANY new headphone. So it is hard to make the argument that accessories justifies high $ anymore


----------



## kurtextrem

golov17 said:


> btw, discount 31% on Fareal300
> http://s.aliexpress.com/mmQzMNNj


 
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-Go-Pro-FAAEAL-300ohm-In-Ear-Earbuds-High-Impedance-300ohms-Flat-Head-Plug-Earburd-Alloy/519064_32671274875.html
 why do they look so different lol


----------



## golov17

kurtextrem said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-Go-Pro-FAAEAL-300ohm-In-Ear-Earbuds-High-Impedance-300ohms-Flat-Head-Plug-Earburd-Alloy/519064_32671274875.html
> why do they look so different lol


 all questions to the sellers, lol


----------



## vapman

Black Seahf/Fareal with white lettering and cable are newest version
 the one before that is the white with black lettering and white cable
  
 that accounts for versions 3.0 and 4.0, i do not know if transparent shell blue cable is version 1.0 or 2.0 but i know that version was out before any of the white/black
  
 correct me if i am wrong but this is my understanding from watching the  stock of different stores over time


----------



## Tomasz2D

oopeteroo said:


> So the mids/vocal is better in cygnus than rx-1?


 
  
 This is not that simple I'm afraid. RX-1 has very good mids but more bell-like wheras in Cygnus mids are more immersed in the whole mix and also warmer.
  
 For female vocals RX-1 is nicer and for male vocals Cygnus is nicer. But this is IMO and also very generaly speaking.


----------



## luedriver

tomasz2d said:


> I think you mean my post here http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/6690#post_12731716
> So since then the situation has changes because now I own TY Hi-Z HP-32 32 Ohm and both original Monk and TY Hi-Z HP-32 32 Ohm allegedly come from the same creator "bug guy".
> 
> So yes they sound very similar. All differences are just by "a little".


 
 yes that was the post


dearyon said:


> just buy TY Hi-Z 32 ohm if you want old Monk sound signature, I heard from impression they are very similar there are some people saying that TY Hi-Z are actually better than old Monk. CMIIW.


 
  
 good thing I have just recently bought the ty hi-z hp32's


----------



## Sempenyi

any suggestion for brand new in box mx985. can't find the new one.


----------



## oopeteroo

tomasz2d said:


> This is not that simple I'm afraid. RX-1 has very good mids but more bell-like wheras in Cygnus mids are more immersed in the whole mix and also warmer.
> 
> For female vocals RX-1 is nicer and for male vocals Cygnus is nicer. But this is IMO and also very generaly speaking.




All it matters is for female vocal xD 
Hope I made the right thing to buy 3x rx-1 instead of cygnus


----------



## golov17

sempenyi said:


> any suggestion for brand new in box mx985. can't find the new one.


http://mg.gmarket.co.kr/Search/Search?topKeyword=sennheiser+mx985

https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-MX-985-In-Ear-Headphones/dp/B00D5P6RNG


----------



## Sempenyi

golov17 said:


> http://mg.gmarket.co.kr/Search/Search?topKeyword=sennheiser+mx985
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-MX-985-In-Ear-Headphones/dp/B00D5P6RNG


 
 they can't ship to indonesia


----------



## haiku

When listening to Massive Attack´s "Mezzanine", the bass the LD-3.0 400 Ohm is producing almost frightens me...
 I don´t think Mojito can do that. The bass nearly blows my head off!


----------



## golov17

sempenyi said:


> they can't ship to indonesia


----------



## Sempenyi

golov17 said:


>


  


 sold


----------



## golov17

sempenyi said:


> sold


maybe from Rendy?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

haiku said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Now, I want to know how 500 ohm earbuds sound like. Just pulled the trigger on these nicely made babies
> 
> ...


 
 Epic mate, just pure epic. Thought you would go for the PureSound 500 Ohm instead hahaha.
  
 Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## Tomasz2D

sempenyi said:


> they can't ship to indonesia


 
 Gmarket ships to Indonesia. Why do you think they don't?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

haiku said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Now, I want to know how 500 ohm earbuds sound like. Just pulled the trigger on these nicely made babies
> 
> ...




Wow. Awaiting your thoughts.


----------



## vapman

very suspicious they claim to be KZ brand.
 surprised to see anything at that price using the mx500 shell... well i guess if you really love it.


----------



## haiku

vapman said:


> very suspicious they claim to be KZ brand.
> surprised to see anything at that price using the mx500 shell... well i guess if you really love it.


 
 PureSound is using MX500, too.


----------



## mochill

tayyab pirzada said:


> Someone stop me from getting Zen 2 black edition......


 
 GET IT, GET IT GET IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## kinetic758

mochill said:


> GET IT, GET IT GET IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!




I'm getting the Chord Mojo first. Then Black


----------



## Tomasz2D

I am slowly digging from the beginning through this Thread, patiently excavating all these recommendations from Golov's Nuclear Power Plant.
 Golov is a smart guy - he has hidden little gems here and there in this Thread.
 I have the feeling that some of the treasure have been overlooked and some, like Aztec Axe,  too obvious not to notice.
 Oh yes, and BloodyPenguin, once you said Golov is the worst here but you're not better.
 Also it is good to read old posts by sifu Clie the ghOSt of this Thread.
  
 Listening to Blue Ever Blue 328R right now - what a beautifully musical bud. It has no highs, mids, lows. I has no soundstage of any kind... just music.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I dont know if its the modded cable but man does this original Monk sound amazing. Good vocals and bass. Amazing instrument seperation. 3D sound. They sound really musical.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/Original-VE-Monk-with-REMOTE-and-Mic-HQ-custom-cable-/231973727127?nav=SEARCH


----------



## ezekiel77

tayyab pirzada said:


> I dont know if its the modded cable but man does this original Monk sound amazing. Good vocals and bass. Amazing instrument seperation. 3D sound. They sound really musical.
> 
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/Original-VE-Monk-with-REMOTE-and-Mic-HQ-custom-cable-/231973727127?nav=SEARCH


 
  
 The Monk is your interim bud while awaiting the Zen? Awesome.


----------



## kinetic758

golov17, Tayyab Pirzada: while I sort out my issues with Chord Mojo, I purchased the Ostry KC08T per your recommendation. Looking forward to hearing them, especially their low end.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kinetic758 said:


> @golov17, @Tayyab Pirzada: while I sort out my issues with Chord Mojo, I purchased the Ostry KC08T per your recommendation. Looking forward to hearing them, especially their low end.


 
 Epic treble and bass. Sub-bass out of this world. Mids just ok. That's KC08T. Very V-shaped. And the best cable out of any earbud I've ever had. Tangle-free and perfectly soft.


----------



## kinetic758

tayyab pirzada said:


> Epic t[COLOR=1D2129]reble and bass. Sub-bass out of this world. Mids just ok. That's KC08T. Very V-shaped. And the best cable out of any earbud I've ever had. Tangle-free and perfectly soft.[/COLOR]




Thanks. Did you use stock full foams or the ever-popular Monk+ thins on them?


----------



## Blueshound24

tayyab pirzada said:


> I dont know if its the modded cable but man does this original Monk sound amazing. Good vocals and bass. Amazing instrument seperation. 3D sound. They sound really musical.
> 
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/Original-VE-Monk-with-REMOTE-and-Mic-HQ-custom-cable-/231973727127?nav=SEARCH


 
  
 Do you have any thoughts on the $4.99 VE Monk Plus on Massdrop compared to the one you linked to?
  
  Venture Electronics Monk Plus 
 https://www.massdrop.com/buy/21618


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

blueshound24 said:


> Do you have any thoughts on the $4.99 VE Monk Plus on Massdrop compared to the one you linked to?
> 
> Venture Electronics Monk Plus
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/21618


 
 I have Monk+ and tbh I like original Monk better. It's more musical if that makes sense. Monk+ is more neutral...


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kinetic758 said:


> Thanks. Did you use stock full foams or the ever-popular Monk+ thins on them?


 
 Stock foams for Ostry. They are quite unique. You will see when you get them.


----------



## Blueshound24

tayyab pirzada said:


> blueshound24 said:
> 
> 
> > Do you have any thoughts on the $4.99 VE Monk Plus on Massdrop compared to the one you linked to?
> ...




Thanks for your thoughts on that. I have never dabbeled with ear buds but would like some for the times I have to hear what's going on around me. 

My favorite signature is something like the HD650, LCD 2.2 or VSonic GR07 BE, or a combination of all three. If anyone would like to give any recommendations? I'd like to keep it < $100, if possible.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Mojito with and without rubber rings comparison


  
 As one can see, the rubber ring clearly does not block any of the Mojito's opening, coupled with Monk+ foams, the fit is perfect for me.
  
 Sneaky insert


----------



## tommo21

Looks good
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Can't wait to receive mine.


----------



## music4mhell

audionewbi3 said:


> Mojito with and without rubber rings comparison
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, i tried rubber rings, but was unhappy with the bass response and comfort.
 Monk+ foams are best , but i use only Monk+ foams, my ears are small, so may be i am getting best fit only with Monk+ foams.
  
 By the which cable is this, is it better than stock cables ?


----------



## rggz

blueshound24 said:


> Thanks for your thoughts on that. I have never dabbeled with ear buds but would like some for the times I have to hear what's going on around me.
> 
> *My favorite signature is something like the HD650, LCD 2.2 or VSonic GR07 BE*, or a combination of all three. If anyone would like to give any recommendations? I'd like to keep it < $100, if possible.


 

 Well, I think your preferences will fit very well with Zen 2 but it's a bit more expensive than your budget atm, then at <$100 point you'll find Seahf 4.0 400Ohms which are a good option too! Maybe another member can add some thoughts.


----------



## golov17

rggz said:


> Well, I think your preferences will fit very well with Zen 2 but it's a bit more expensive than your budget atm, then at <$100 point you'll find Seahf 4.0 400Ohms which are a good option too! Maybe another member can add some thoughts.


Agree


----------



## music4mhell

rggz said:


> blueshound24 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for your thoughts on that. I have never dabbeled with ear buds but would like some for the times I have to hear what's going on around me.
> ...


 
 Why not RX-1, only $22 ?


----------



## rggz

music4mhell said:


> Why not RX-1, only $22 ?


 

 Regardless the difference between planar x dynamic I think the HD650 and Audeze LCD to my ears have a bit dark signature and warm presentation and I still waiting for my pair arrives, then I can't make my own judgement atm, however RX-1 looks a good option too and cheaper if he's looking for something more mid-centric (biased on recent thoughts).


----------



## kurtextrem

If he really likes dark signature Seahf might be a good option. However I'd start with RX-1 too, it's a cheap option to get a really great bud.
 Also there were some thoughts on Seahf 4.0 many pages back. We even have a Seahf god in here, who has almost all generations


----------



## ezekiel77

Mojitos came.
  
 First impressions: with stock foams on, they sound wonderful. Mids, treble, detail... and airy as hell.
  
 I'd love to try the rings and Monk+ foams as suggested earlier in the thread. With a bit more lower end weight these are perfect.


----------



## AudioNewbi3 (Feb 9, 2018)

ezekiel77 said:


> Mojitos came.
> 
> First impressions: with stock foams on, they sound wonderful. Mids, treble, detail... and airy as hell.
> 
> I'd love to try the rings and Monk+ foams as suggested earlier in the thread. With a bit more lower end weight these are perfect.


 


 You will love the Mojitos very much if you like detailed and airy sound


----------



## music4mhell

There is one more big difference i noticed between Zen2 & Mojito.
 Mojito is very fast compare to Zen2.


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> There is one more big difference i noticed between Zen2 & Mojito.
> Mojito is very fast compare to Zen2.


different beasts?


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > There is one more big difference i noticed between Zen2 & Mojito.
> ...


 
 After so many days, i tried to listen to Zen2 again, and i felt why the hell song is being played at slow pace


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> After so many days, i tried to listen to Zen2 again, and i felt why the hell song is being played at slow pace


Haha


----------



## golov17

Hmm.. Normal speed..


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> Hmm.. Normal speed..


 
 I am addicted to Mojito now 
 Let see how RX-1 performs.


----------



## ezekiel77

audionewbi3 said:


> Wohoo! Another Malaysian.
> Apa Kahbar mate!
> 
> 
> You will love the Mojitos very much if you like detailed and airy sound




Hey man, Ipoh lang and earbud newbie here. Wanted a taste of the big soundstage that comes so naturally in buds compared to IEMs. Any idea how long to burn them in?


----------



## kinetic758

audionewbi3 said:


> Mojito with and without rubber rings comparison
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That black version of the Mojito looks pretty slick. I think you may have posted it before, but what kind of rubber rings are those?


----------



## kinetic758

ezekiel77 said:


> Hey man, Ipoh lang and earbud newbie here. Wanted a taste of the big soundstage that comes so naturally in buds compared to IEMs. Any idea how long to burn them in?




I left my Mojitos to burn in for about 18 hours straight and they settled down nicely after that - lower end opened up and the upper end smoothed out a bit.


----------



## AudioNewbi3 (Feb 9, 2018)

ezekiel77 said:


> Hey man, Ipoh lang and earbud newbie here. Wanted a taste of the big soundstage that comes so naturally in buds compared to IEMs. Any idea how long to burn them in?


 

 When I inquired Rose, he mentioned that NO BURN IN is required. Just enjoy them as they are.
 I personally have not burned them in. But, I have been using them for quite a while now, and they have settled down nicely.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

kinetic758 said:


> That black version of the Mojito looks pretty slick. I think you may have posted it before, but what kind of rubber rings are those?


 
 I got the rubber rings from Taobao. 
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z0k.1000780.1997989141.5.8Lutio&id=527963922942&_u=
 I bought both A and B style.


----------



## jrazmar

can any of the Mojito owners here post how this earbuds actually look being worn? still curious how it fits one's ears. thanks.


----------



## kinetic758

audionewbi3 said:


> I got the rubber rings from Taobao.
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z0k.1000780.1997989141.5.8Lutio&id=527963922942&_u=
> I bought both A and B style.




Thanks! Perhaps I'll see if the Monk+ exp pack rubber rings I have now fit first (I've never purchased from Taobao). They seem like they would cover some of the speaker grill, but I haven't actually tried them on yet.


----------



## kinetic758

jrazmar said:


> can any of the Mojito owners here post how this earbuds actually look being worn? still curious how it fits one's ears. thanks.




Sorry my Mojitos are at work. About the fit: while they sound better than my other buds, they fit the worst for me. Not sure if it's the shape of the bud or my ear or both, but I'm never confident about the fit whenever I use them. I tried double foam, which made the fit snug, but then I eventually went back to single after I experienced a little bit of pain. Now they feel a bit loose.

This is coming from someone who feels the Cygnus fits them like a glove.


----------



## emptymt

golov17 said:


> Hmm.. Normal speed..


 

 How does it sound?


----------



## golov17

emptymt said:


> How does it sound?


 emotional and very musical, to my taste


----------



## golov17

in fact, not so many good-sounding earbuds with a dark sound, and this is one of the good (Noise Canceling Bass)


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> in fact, not so many good-sounding earbuds with a dark sound, and this is one of the good (Noise Canceling Bass)


 
  
 I want mine so bad now!!!  They are at my local post office.  I hope they deliver them today!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 --


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> I want mine so bad now!!!  They are at my local post office.  I hope they deliver them today!   :eek:
> 
> --


Ohh.. Nice.. I hope, you love it's


----------



## Tomasz2D

golov17 said:


> in fact, not so many good-sounding earbuds with a dark sound, and this is one of the good (Noise Canceling Bass)


 
 Got T-Music today and also Remax 305M from BangGood (have you got yours already from AE?)


----------



## BloodyPenguin

tomasz2d said:


> Got T-Music today and also Remax 305M from BangGood (have you got yours already from AE?)


 
  
 My T-Music is arriving soon.

 I am also very interested in the Remax 305M, looking forward to hearing your impressions.  
  
 --


----------



## kinetic758

Anyone else listening to the Cygnus without foams?  I just removed the stock donuts and I think I might prefer them naked: opens up the sound a bit...


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> Got T-Music today and also Remax 305M from BangGood (have you got yours already from AE?)


 my Remax arrive tomorrow , I hope..


----------



## golov17

kinetic758 said:


> Anyone else listening to the Cygnus without foams?  I just removed the stock donuts and I think I might prefer them naked: opens up the sound a bit...


yes, but with rubber rings sometimes..


----------



## David Mitchell

It's great to see how interest in, and availability of, earbuds has increased since the last time I checked in to these parts! I have the RX-1 and Monk+ on my short list to try. Right now, however, I'm looking for inexpensive earbuds with a microphone. Any clear recommendations?


----------



## golov17

david mitchell said:


> It's great to see how interest in, and availability of, earbuds has increased since the last time I checked in to these parts! I have the RX-1 and Monk+ on my short list to try. Right now, however, I'm looking for inexpensive earbuds with a microphone. Any clear recommendations?


Remax RM303
http://s.aliexpress.com/eEBzQVNF


----------



## jamesbdh

david mitchell said:


> It's great to see how interest in, and availability of, earbuds has increased since the last time I checked in to these parts! I have the RX-1 and Monk+ on my short list to try. Right now, however, I'm looking for inexpensive earbuds with a microphone. Any clear recommendations?


 
 The 3 that I have are the Edifier H180P, Remax 303, and the e600. 
  
 All are good but I think I prefer either the e600 or the H180P but the e600 is a bit larger for my ears(most likely just my fault as they are not large).
  
 As a note,  I also prefer neutral sound like HD600 not dark or v shaped as some do.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

david mitchell said:


> It's great to see how interest in, and availability of, earbuds has increased since the last time I checked in to these parts! I have the RX-1 and Monk+ on my short list to try. Right now, however, I'm looking for inexpensive earbuds with a microphone. Any clear recommendations?




Original Monk with mic and modded cable: http://m.ebay.com/itm/Original-VE-Monk-with-REMOTE-and-Mic-HQ-custom-cable-/231973727127?nav=SEARCH

These are probably my favourite at the moment


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I like ultra detailed wide soundstage sound with some bass. But i dont mind V shaped sometimes, it makes things fun.


----------



## Tomasz2D

bloodypenguin said:


> I am also very interested in the Remax 305M, looking forward to hearing your impressions.


 
  
 Tried it with foams on and off.
  
 Pluses: good phone call voice quality, nice fabric covered and soft cable, volume and tracks control that works in iOS and Android, tight bass.
 Minuses: tricky and uncomfortable fit, very narrow and congested soundstage, unpleasent mids, sort of tin-can sound, too bright.
  
 Personally I would choose Remax 305M only as a headset mainly for phonecalls with very occasional music listening sessions.
  
 But let's wait for Oleg's opinion first.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

tomasz2d said:


> Tried it with foams on and off.
> 
> Pluses: good phone call voice quality, nice fabric covered and soft cable, volume and tracks control that works in iOS and Android, tight bass.
> Minuses: tricky and uncomfortable fit, very narrow and congested soundstage, unpleasent mids, sort of tin-can sound, too bright.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the quick impressions.  I trust your ears and I am sure you are describing it correctly.  Yeah, think I might be skipping these.  Not a signature I enjoy.
  
 ..


----------



## David Mitchell

jamesbdh said:


> The 3 that I have are the Edifier H180P, Remax 303, and the e600.
> 
> All are good but I think I prefer either the e600 or the H180P but the e600 is a bit larger for my ears(most likely just my fault as they are not large).
> 
> As a note,  I also prefer neutral sound like HD600 not dark or v shaped as some do.


 
  
 Thanks! I'm an old HD580 fan, so your taste should be similar to mine. Going by the stock earbuds I've used, my ears are probably larger, however.
  
 I found the Edifier earbuds available from High Quality Electronic Products and the Remax earbuds available from Wisen Technology Co. on AliExpress. Is there a better place to purchase them? The prices are attractive....
  
 You didn't mention the brand for the third one, but I searched for "e600" in this thread and found the JiuShao e600. That's what you're referring to, correct? Unfortunately it does not seem to be available currently.
  


tayyab pirzada said:


> Original Monk with mic and modded cable: http://m.ebay.com/itm/Original-VE-Monk-with-REMOTE-and-Mic-HQ-custom-cable-/231973727127?nav=SEARCH
> 
> These are probably my favourite at the moment


 
  
 Thanks for this, too! That's actually more than I want to spend right now, as I'm on a very limited budget, but I will keep it in mind.


----------



## jamesbdh

david mitchell said:


> Thanks! I'm an old HD580 fan, so your taste should be similar to mine. Going by the stock earbuds I've used, my ears are probably larger, however.
> 
> I found the Edifier earbuds available from High Quality Electronic Products and the Remax earbuds available from Wisen Technology Co. on AliExpress. Is there a better place to purchase them? The prices are attractive....
> 
> ...


 

 Yes those are what I was referring to.  I am not sure which is best for you but I ordered from aliexpress.


----------



## David Mitchell

golov17 said:


> Remax RM303
> http://s.aliexpress.com/eEBzQVNF


 
  
 Whoops, how did I miss your post?! Thanks! Have you also tried the Edifier H180P which jamesbdh mentioned?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

david mitchell said:


> Whoops, how did I miss your post?! Thanks! Have you also tried the Edifier H180P which jamesbdh mentioned?




I loved edifier H180. Very warm earbuds. But kind of veiled.


----------



## vapman

david mitchell said:


> Thanks for this, too! That's actually more than I want to spend right now, as I'm on a very limited budget, but I will keep it in mind.


 
  


tayyab pirzada said:


> Original Monk with mic and modded cable: http://m.ebay.com/itm/Original-VE-Monk-with-REMOTE-and-Mic-HQ-custom-cable-/231973727127?nav=SEARCH
> 
> These are probably my favourite at the moment


 

 Guys maybe it's just my opinion but please don't support the market that hoarded a bunch of $5 earbuds to make profit off people who didn't get an original monk when they were out.
  
 Sure it's nice that it's recabled and has a mic but you can get that cable and do the job yourself on your own monk for $10 if that.
  
 There are plenty of new and currently being sold buds on the market that sound really damn close to the original monk, and they are all under $10 new. Have not heard the TY HiZ 32 ohm ( a sub $10 bud ) but someone posted pics of them next to the original monk and said they sound very similar. I don't know this for myself though.
  
 I have the Remax 303 and it is fine but NO bass whatsoever - i only use them for making phone calls really.
  
@David Mitchell  First if you don't have a Monk Plus get one of those. No question. Most of us here with insane earbud collections still use that $5 earbud every day. Grab that and a couple other cheapies and you'll know where to go from there.. it has been MANY years since I heard a hd580 so  i can't compare it to things i own.


----------



## ozkan

vapman said:


> Guys maybe it's just my opinion but please don't support the market that hoarded a bunch of $5 earbuds to make profit off people who didn't get an original monk when they were out.
> 
> Sure it's nice that it's recabled and has a mic but you can get that cable and do the job yourself on your own monk for $10 if that.
> 
> ...




Agreed with every word you say @vapman. As far as I remember HD580 is very airy and kind of bass light along with some good details. I believe that Monk plus could serve you well rather than Monk which is warmer and bassier.


----------



## vapman

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who thinks the MP is warmer than the original Monk.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who thinks the MP is warmer than the original Monk.




MP is way more neutral to my ears.

And true, you should be able to recable yourself. Unless you are a newbie like me lol.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

tayyab pirzada said:


> You should be able to recable yourself. Unless you are a newbie like me lol.


 
  
 I very much want to learn how to re-cable my earbuds.  I have a few ones I want to cable swap, but I do not have the know-how or the tools.

 I really should look into it.  
  
 --


----------



## vapman

bloodypenguin said:


> I very much want to learn how to re-cable my earbuds.  I have a few ones I want to cable swap, but I do not have the know-how or the tools.
> 
> I really should look into it.
> 
> --


 

 Cheap desoldering iron to make removing solder easy and painless (desoldering wick sucks and will make you hate life). Even a cheapo rat shack one is great.
  
 A soldering iron is worth spending a little more than the cheapest ones, you want one with actual temperature/power control and there are plenty of good stations that can be had for not much money.
  
 I have a  hakko 808 and a hakko 888, love them both and have not screwed up a single project since getting them, but there are definitely cheaper options. Budget irons with no sort of temp/power control or replacable tips will just break whatever you're trying to work on
  
  
 My remax 305M hasn't even shipped yet, i bought it before the T-music! argh!!!!!!!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> Cheap desoldering iron to make removing solder easy and painless (desoldering wick sucks and will make you hate life). Even a cheapo rat shack one is great.
> 
> A soldering iron is worth spending a little more than the cheapest ones, you want one with actual temperature/power control and there are plenty of good stations that can be had for not much money.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the info, I really do appreciate it.  I will have to start doing some research...
  
 --


----------



## boblauer

bloodypenguin said:


> I very much want to learn how to re-cable my earbuds.  I have a few ones I want to cable swap, but I do not have the know-how or the tools.
> 
> I really should look into it.
> 
> --


 
 Here's some links here I found:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/501633/wheres-the-cabling-interconnect-guide
http://www.head-fi.org/t/243186/please-post-your-recable-guides-or-links-here
  
 Here's a couple for outside of here, apologies if that's not OK:
 http://www.explainthatstuff.com/howtorepairheadphones.html
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-lOVcEbCm8
  
 I actually ordered an extra Monk Plus from MassDrop to do this exact thing surgery, now I'm thinking I should pick up a couple other cheapo's to screw up on first than the extra monk.Just wish I didn't have 60 YO eyes and hands but until I find Ponce de Leon's missing fountain of youth there's no fixing that problem much.


----------



## Tomasz2D

I am living in the noise canceled world now,
 (what did you say?)
 I said, I am living in the noise canceled world now,
 And I like it!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

boblauer said:


> Here's some links here I found:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/501633/wheres-the-cabling-interconnect-guide
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/243186/please-post-your-recable-guides-or-links-here
> 
> ...




Thank you so much for all that great info!

--


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

tomasz2d said:


> I am living in the noise canceled world now,
> 
> (what did you say?)
> 
> ...




Lol they are really that good?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Wow Ostry KC08t offer incredible sub-bass.


----------



## golov17

david mitchell said:


> Whoops, how did I miss your post?! Thanks! Have you also tried the Edifier H180P which jamesbdh mentioned?


 EDIFIER H190p In ear Earphone Headset For Mobile phone
 http://s.aliexpress.com/RRZ32eei 
Original Edifier h185p mobile phone earphones with micphone stereo earbud for mp3 mp4 PC Earphone in-ear Hi-Fi Enhanced Bass
 http://s.aliexpress.com/FfY3eM3I
In Stock Edifier Earphone H186P Computer Earphones Stereo Earbud for Mobile Phone PC H186 Sports Earphones For huawei xiaomi
 http://s.aliexpress.com/EnAZzAf6

I prefer h185


----------



## vapman

The Edifiers all do have slightly different signatures from one another. Enough to be noticable, at least.
  
 I think stock H180 sounds like crap but... well.... we all know how good the Edimun/Red Demon (of those who heard it) and that's based on the H180


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> The Edifiers all do have slightly different signatures from one another. Enough to be noticable, at least.
> 
> I think stock H180 sounds like crap but... well.... we all know how good the Edimun/Red Demon (of those who heard it) and that's based on the H180


 
 My Edimun are still coming in. And Zen 2. After that I'm calling it a day with earbuds. Looking forward to hearing both.


----------



## vapman

A/B testing the original monk (not monk plus) and T-Music reveals they're pretty similar in sound. at least IMO. Don't get mad at me if you buy them and they're not close enough to the original Monk for your liking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 T-Music makes monk plus seem like the monk plus has very forward mids.


----------



## kinetic758

tayyab pirzada said:


> My Edimun are still coming in. And Zen 2. After that I'm calling it a day with earbuds. Looking forward to hearing both.




You know, I have a sense that ever since you heard Mojito, everything else to you has just been "ok". I listened to my RX-1's for the first time and they were just... OK. Same with Monk+. Same with Ting etc. I think I'm in the same boat as you... I find it difficult to appreciate some of these other buds because I've become accustomed to the strengths of Mojito. At this point, I'll probably just focus on my DAC/amp, with the exception of eventually getting Zen 2.0 black.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kinetic758 said:


> You know, I have a sense that ever since you heard Mojito, everything else to you has just been "ok". I listened to my RX-1's for the first time and they were just... OK. Same with Monk+. Same with Ting etc. I think I'm in the same boat as you... I find it difficult to appreciate some of these other buds because I've become accustomed to the strengths of Mojito. At this point, I'll probably just focus on my DAC/amp, with the exception of eventually getting Zen 2.0 black.


 
 Yeah except I can appreciate warm buds. Mojito is icy cold. Like I tried Ostry KC08t today and was astounded by the sub-bass (something the Mojito lacks). But yeah, the quintessential best earbud in the world in my opinion is the Mojito. I was not astounded by MX985. I returned them in fact.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kinetic758 said:


> You know, I have a sense that ever since you heard Mojito, everything else to you has just been "ok". I listened to my RX-1's for the first time and they were just... OK. Same with Monk+. Same with Ting etc. I think I'm in the same boat as you... I find it difficult to appreciate some of these other buds because I've become accustomed to the strengths of Mojito. At this point, I'll probably just focus on my DAC/amp, with the exception of eventually getting Zen 2.0 black.


 
 And you should wait till VE releases their new bud: the VE Nirvana


----------



## kinetic758

tayyab pirzada said:


> Yeah except I can appreciate warm buds. Mojito is icy cold. Like I tried Ostry KC08t today and was astounded by the sub-bass (something the Mojito lacks). But yeah, the quintessential best earbud in the world in my opinion is the Mojito. I was not astounded by MX985. I returned them in fact.




We'll good thing I have a KC08T on the way  If they can impress you after putting down the Mojito, then I'm quite interested in hearing them.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kinetic758 said:


> We'll good thing I have a KC08T on the way
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Honestly Mojito for cold and KC08t for warm is all you need in my opinion for buds. I still have to hear Zen 2 though. And the best vocals in any bud I've heard is Shozy Cygnus. They are the most detailed and rich, forward vocals with intimate soundstage.


----------



## vapman

I keep slacking on the KC08 for a long time although it gets the occasional hype around here. I think you will find the Zen 2 + mojito combo coveres everything you could ask for. Probably keep a couple cheapies around for going outside, modding, whatever.


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> david mitchell said:
> 
> 
> > Whoops, how did I miss your post?! Thanks! Have you also tried the Edifier H180P which jamesbdh mentioned?
> ...


 
 My fav is H185 among all edifiers


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> david mitchell said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for this, too! That's actually more than I want to spend right now, as I'm on a very limited budget, but I will keep it in mind.
> ...


 
 Remax 203 is better than 303 ?
 I love 203, it's an awesome earbud with mic while you are driving


----------



## jrazmar

tayyab pirzada said:


> Honestly Mojito for cold and KC08t for warm is all you need in my opinion for buds. I still have to hear Zen 2 though. And the best vocals in any bud I've heard is Shozy Cygnus. They are the most detailed and rich, forward vocals with intimate soundstage.


 
  
 +1M for Cygnus vocals 
  
 Now Mojito is becoming really interesting to me...As posted earlier, can anybody post a picture of the Mojito being worn??? Not sure if it would fit me well with my small ears. Comfort, I believe, has a significant overall impact with the way we use earbuds especially for using while on-the-move. This is true with the Cygnus. Most of the time on-the-go (at least for me), I prefer to use the most comfortable earbuds rather than the best sounding one which easily falls every time I move.


----------



## ngoshawk

Happily received my RX-1's today. Initial listen while on my walk. They are slightly heavy, had a hard time keeping them in my ears (running naked), but I really like the sound.

When properly inserted, they have a nice warm sound, with slightly less bass than a properly inserted Monk. But I will definitely need more testing and fiddling with the fit.

I really like the sound, the quality, and do like the cable. That said, I MIGHT have heard a slight "short" in the sound, but I cannot guarantee it wasn't the connection to my phone. So far, so good!


----------



## music4mhell

jrazmar said:


> tayyab pirzada said:
> 
> 
> > Honestly Mojito for cold and KC08t for warm is all you need in my opinion for buds. I still have to hear Zen 2 though. And the best vocals in any bud I've heard is Shozy Cygnus. They are the most detailed and rich, forward vocals with intimate soundstage.
> ...


 
 My ears are small, i couldn't listen to Tomahawk more than 2 mins.
 Yes cygnus has best fit, I like the fir of Remax 203 also.
  
 For Mojito, i use one Monk+ foam a little bit of adjustment and i am good to go for a long listening session


----------



## ezekiel77

ngoshawk said:


> Happily received my RX-1's today. Initial listen while on my walk. They are slightly heavy, had a hard time keeping them in my ears (running naked), but I really like the sound.
> 
> When properly inserted, they have a nice warm sound, with slightly less bass than a properly inserted Monk. But I will definitely need more testing and fiddling with the fit.
> 
> I really like the sound, the quality, and do like the cable. That said, I MIGHT have heard a slight "short" in the sound, but I cannot guarantee it wasn't the connection to my phone. So far, so good!


 
  
 The donut stock foams helped with the fit somewhat, naked the buds are a bit too small to fit well for me.


----------



## ngoshawk

ezekiel77 said:


> The donut stock foams helped with the fit somewhat, naked the buds are a bit too small to fit well for me.




Thanks. Working on the dot right now. Just very impressed with the sound, I am!


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

After hours of hearing them today, I realized Monks are slightly too large for my ears (with foams), Cygnus are perfect, and Mojito with Monk Plus foams are near perfect.


----------



## haiku

ngoshawk said:


> Happily received my RX-1's today. Initial listen while on my walk. They are slightly heavy, had a hard time keeping them in my ears (running naked), but I really like the sound.
> 
> When properly inserted, they have a nice warm sound, with slightly less bass than a properly inserted Monk. But I will definitely need more testing and fiddling with the fit.
> 
> I really like the sound, the quality, and do like the cable. That said, I MIGHT have heard a slight "short" in the sound, but I cannot guarantee it wasn't the connection to my phone. So far, so good!


 
  

 Less bass than monk is not acceptable here.


----------



## kinetic758

jrazmar said:


> +1M for Cygnus vocals
> 
> Now Mojito is becoming really interesting to me...As posted earlier, can anybody post a picture of the Mojito being worn??? Not sure if it would fit me well with my small ears. Comfort, I believe, has a significant overall impact with the way we use earbuds especially for using while on-the-move. This is true with the Cygnus. Most of the time on-the-go (at least for me), I prefer to use the most comfortable earbuds rather than the best sounding one which easily falls every time I move.




I don't think I have small ears and I feel the Mojito is sometimes a little loose. Given you said you had smaller ears, I would presume they would fit you well. How do the Cygnus fit you? I and few others own both so perhaps that would give you an idea of expected fit.


----------



## kinetic758

ezekiel77 said:


> The donut stock foams helped with the fit somewhat, naked the buds are a bit too small to fit well for me.




I tried no foams and with Hiegi. I preferred the latter, but overall the presentation sounded a bit muddled and dirty to me. Mids were definitely forward as many have said but it wasn't in a very pleasant way. I'll definitely give it a bit more time, but as of now I would take the Monk+ over these even if the Monk+ were the same price.


----------



## ngoshawk

haiku said:


> Less bass than monk is not acceptable here.




Lol. Added the full foam, and I can honestly say this is only the second earbud I have ever owned where the fit is BETTER with the foam on...Fiio EM3 is the other. And the large "overhang" of the foam onto the back of the bud has enhanced the bass quite nicely. More testing needed of course...


----------



## jrazmar

kinetic758 said:


> I don't think I have small ears and I feel the Mojito is sometimes a little loose. Given you said you had smaller ears, I would presume they would fit you well. How do the Cygnus fit you? I and few others own both so perhaps that would give you an idea of expected fit.


 
  
 Cygnus is just perfect to my ears - not too tight nor too loose. I am using the default donut foams that came with it. The casing resembles the PK1 and OK1 which I previously had so the fit is kind of benchmark for my case. I can run with it without any hassle.


----------



## kinetic758

jrazmar said:


> Cygnus is just perfect to my ears - not too tight nor too loose. I am using the default donut foams that came with it. The casing resembles the PK1 and OK1 which I previously had so the fit is kind of benchmark for my case. I can run with it without any hassle.




With that said, buy the Mojito! The Cygnus fits the best out of my earphones, but I sometimes find it ever so slightly tight (I use stock donuts with them just like you). If your ears are slightly smaller than mine, then I think the Mojito would fit you just fine. 

That said, I'm not sure if it's the physical shape of the Mojito or just the diameter, but I can't get the fit right. I think the Yuin/Cygnus just fit better because the stem hugs and rests against your ears, where as the Mojito stem kind of just floats there (for me at least). The amazing thing is that even with this fit, they still sound good.


----------



## music4mhell

jrazmar said:


> kinetic758 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think I have small ears and I feel the Mojito is sometimes a little loose. Given you said you had smaller ears, I would presume they would fit you well. How do the Cygnus fit you? I and few others own both so perhaps that would give you an idea of expected fit.
> ...


 
 Try Hiegi Donut foam once with Mojito, It gives better fit.


----------



## jrazmar

anybody who has both the Zen 2.0 and Mojito can share the difference in sound signature? maybe it has been posted here before and I just missed it. I'm curious if I can sell all my earbuds collection and buy the Mojito for the ultimate earbuds of the century (as most people here claims). My worry so far is the bass performance. I got spoiled by the Zen 2.0 and Cygnus' bass so that may be an issue for me not so sure though. Based on experience, no matter how amazing the clarity and soundstage of an earphones, one can be left unsatisfied if bass is lacking and ever so light. And I'm not a basshead. I appreciate resolution, imaging and openness in sound but at least the bass should be there with the right amount and quality.


----------



## music4mhell

jrazmar said:


> anybody who has both the Zen 2.0 and Mojito can share the difference in sound signature? maybe it has been posted here before and I just missed it. I'm curious if I can sell all my earbuds collection and buy the Mojito for the ultimate earbuds of the century (as most people here claims). My worry so far is the bass performance. I got spoiled by the Zen 2.0 and Cygnus' bass so that may be an issue for me not so sure though. Based on experience, no matter how amazing the clarity and soundstage of an earphones, one can be left unsatisfied if bass is lacking and ever so light. And I'm not a basshead. I appreciate resolution, imaging and openness in sound but at least the bass should be there with the right amount and quality.


 
 One liner : Mojito has better bass than Zen 2 & Cygnus even at lower volumes.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Im still waiting for Zen 2. But Mojito are the best buds period in my opinion.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I love Mojito's bass. It sounds different from other buds.


----------



## golov17

This is an impossible dream to get an all in one, it does not happen in this world audio gears, IMHO


----------



## haiku

golov17 said:


> This is an impossible dream to get an all in one, it does not happen in this world audio gears, IMHO


 

 +1, and isn´t it the beauty of this hobby?! For me, it is.


----------



## ezekiel77

jrazmar said:


> anybody who has both the Zen 2.0 and Mojito can share the difference in sound signature? maybe it has been posted here before and I just missed it. I'm curious if I can sell all my earbuds collection and buy the Mojito for the ultimate earbuds of the century (as most people here claims). My worry so far is the bass performance. I got spoiled by the Zen 2.0 and Cygnus' bass so that may be an issue for me not so sure though. Based on experience, no matter how amazing the clarity and soundstage of an earphones, one can be left unsatisfied if bass is lacking and ever so light. And I'm not a basshead. I appreciate resolution, imaging and openness in sound but at least the bass should be there with the right amount and quality.


 
  

  
 Seems to fit me fine. From what I've read Zen and Mojito have complementary signatures. Zen is warmer and fuller vs Mojito's airier and brighter presentation. The bass quality is splendid. You hear and almost feel the textures, but you won't feel the impact. Think HD800 vs LCD3 analogy and you won't be far off. For IEMs it shares some similarities to the Titan 1.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Man, the Mojito sure are getting a ton of traction in this thread.


----------



## jrazmar

ezekiel77 said:


> Seems to fit me fine. From what I've read Zen and Mojito have complementary signatures. Zen is warmer and fuller vs Mojito's airier and brighter presentation. The bass quality is splendid. You hear and almost feel the textures, but you won't feel the impact. Think HD800 vs LCD3 analogy and you won't be far off. For IEMs it shares some similarities to the Titan 1.


 
  
 Thanks Ezekiel for sharing your photo. Looks good to me. I think it would fit me just fine but I maybe wrong.
  


haiku said:


> +1, and isn´t it the beauty of this hobby?! For me, it is.


 
  
 Downside is bankruptcy. Wifey is not happy. Or simply this hobby may not be for everyone. Still, on to the hobby...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I received the T-Music DIY Earbud today.  Burned it a bit throughout the day and night.

 Initial impressions are they sure do have a substantial bass response.  I would say they have a slightly V shaped signature.
  
 Overall sound is quite fun, with enough detail to keep them interesting.



 Here is a quick photo shoot I did of it:


  
  

  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  

  
  
  

  
  
  

  
  
  

  
  
 --


----------



## ezekiel77

audionewbi3 said:


> Man, the Mojito sure are getting a ton of traction in this thread.


 
  
 They good!! The airiness is addictive!
  


jrazmar said:


> Thanks Ezekiel for sharing your photo. Looks good to me. I think it would fit me just fine but I maybe wrong.
> 
> Downside is bankruptcy. Wifey is not happy. Or simply this hobby may not be for everyone. Still, on to the hobby...


 
  
 Looks good to you, sounds good to me! At least in buds, the ceiling is about $350. Over-ears has a new ceiling every month lol.


----------



## dearyon

golov17 said:


> This is an impossible dream to get an all in one, it does not happen in this world audio gears, IMHO


 
 +1
 there is no perfect earbuds on everything


bloodypenguin said:


> I received the T-Music DIY Earbud today.  Burned it a bit throughout the day and night.
> 
> Initial impressions are they sure do have a substantial bass response.  I would say they have a slightly V shaped signature.
> 
> ...


 
 Epic shoot as always!
 Interesting earbuds
 If only they could just "delete" that mx500 text, it's bugging me... (it could easily removed actually)


----------



## BloodyPenguin

dearyon said:


> Epic shoot as always! Interesting earbuds
> If only they could just "delete" that mx500 text, it's bugging me... (it could easily removed actually)


 
  
 Thank you, I was happy how the photos turned out.

 The whole Sennheiser MX500 thing bugs me as well.  I think I might ask my wife to paint them a fun color or something. 

 The Cable is of high quality, but a tad sticky at first.


----------



## golov17

haiku said:


> +1, and isn´t it the beauty of this hobby?! For me, it is.


Absolutely agree


----------



## Makahl

I'm wondering get a Mojito too, but is it a little recessed with vocals, right? Is that mean they're muffled or just don't shine like the rest? Can some dBs with EQ at 1~3kHz bring the vocals more vivid in some situations? (I bet most of the users here doesn't like EQ but...)
  
 And is there something special about some Seahf model in terms of vocals and treble extension with the classic bass of the brand? Or are they targeted for dark signatures?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

makahl said:


> I'm wondering get a Mojito too, but is it a little recessed with vocals, right? Is that mean they're muffled or just don't shine like the rest? Can some dBs with EQ at 1~3kHz bring the vocals more vivid in some situations? (I bet most of the users here doesn't like EQ but...)
> 
> And is there something special about some Seahf model in terms of vocals and treble extension with the classic bass of the brand? Or are they targeted for dark signatures?


 
 Mojito is 10/10 on everything except vocals in my opinion. recessed meaning they don't shine like others. they are clear vocals though.


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> Thank you, I was happy how the photos turned out.
> 
> 
> The whole Sennheiser MX500 thing bugs me as well.  I think I might ask my wife to paint them a fun color or something.
> ...


 HF and cable better after using in some time


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Why am I the only reviewer of the Mojito on Headfi. You would think there would be more...lol


----------



## music4mhell

tayyab pirzada said:


> Why am I the only reviewer of the Mojito on Headfi. You would think there would be more...lol


 
 We are lazy guys


----------



## Tomasz2D

tayyab pirzada said:


> Lol they are really that good?


 
  
 They are nice. T-Music is just yet another blend of VE/FARERL/Saehf/JiuShao/TY type of sound presented at about Monk sound quality level.


----------



## ezekiel77

makahl said:


> I'm wondering get a Mojito too, but is it a little recessed with vocals, right? Is that mean they're muffled or just don't shine like the rest? Can some dBs with EQ at 1~3kHz bring the vocals more vivid in some situations? (I bet most of the users here doesn't like EQ but...)


 
  
 Not recessed to my ears. Mojitos give clear and detailed vocals at the expense of some sweetness (some call it wetness I guess?) and warmth.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Mojito are the ultimate earbuds


----------



## justvinh

My Rx-1 came in today, first impression is the bad smell of the accessories, especially the foams and rubber band, even the rubber cable of the earbuds, over all build quality and comfort is average. Following sound impression is done with full foam, mid bass is lighter than the naked Cygnus, more punchy/pacey, quite well defined. The mid is where it shines, vocal is smooth and very detailed mid with a forward sounding, comparable to the Cygnus. Treble is quite well extended but get quite harsh sometimes. Overall this earbud got a very exciting sound for a reasonable price, It does compete against the Cygnus but so far I still prefer the Cygnus for better comfort and resolution.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

makahl said:


> I'm wondering get a Mojito too, but is it a little recessed with vocals, right? Is that mean they're muffled or just don't shine like the rest? Can some dBs with EQ at 1~3kHz bring the vocals more vivid in some situations? (I bet most of the users here doesn't like EQ but...)
> 
> And is there something special about some Seahf model in terms of vocals and treble extension with the classic bass of the brand? Or are they targeted for dark signatures?


 
 The mids of the Mojito although recessed (only slightly by my ears) still remain extremely clear and detailed.
  
 The Mojito can be summed up in 3 words:
 Airy, Detailed,Crazy Extension both ways
  
 SeaHF are targeted for individuals who like a darker signature. That is why despite having the Mojitos, I still adore my 320Ohm V1.
  
 If you plan on getting a Mojito, you can just give up on other buds which have same or similar signature to the Mojitos i.e. DIY Dual Drivers, Moondrop VX Pro, Tings (Judging by reviews).................
 The only way for me at least to continue to collect buds is to go down a completely different sound signature route from Mojitos.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

bloodypenguin said:


> Thank you, I was happy how the photos turned out.
> 
> The whole Sennheiser MX500 thing bugs me as well.  I think I might ask my wife to paint them a fun color or something.
> 
> The Cable is of high quality, but a tad sticky at first.


 
 Rub it off with rubbing alcohol. Problem solved hahahaha.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tayyab pirzada said:


> Mojito are the ultimate earbuds


 
 They maybe he ultimate earbuds in terms of detail and brightness, but sometimes, after listening for extended period of times, I will miss the darker sound signatures of the SeaHF's.
   
 Quote:


ezekiel77 said:


> Not recessed to my ears. Mojitos give clear and detailed vocals at the expense of some sweetness (some call it wetness I guess?) and warmth.


 
 Yes, the vocals are cynically 'sharp' and lack smoothness. They are also somewhat in the background maybe just a row back. IMHO at least. 
 Would love to hear them outta the Mojo!
 Enjoy your bud!


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I agree, the Mojito is the king of cold buds. And the king of warm buds is...Seahf? I thought it was Zen 2?


----------



## Makahl

tayyab pirzada said:


> Mojito is 10/10 on everything except vocals in my opinion. recessed meaning they don't shine like others. they are clear vocals though.


 


ezekiel77 said:


> Not recessed to my ears. Mojitos give clear and detailed vocals at the expense of some sweetness (some call it wetness I guess?) and warmth.


 


audionewbi3 said:


> The mids of the Mojito although recessed (only slightly by my ears) still remain extremely clear and detailed.
> 
> The Mojito can be summed up in 3 words:
> Airy, Detailed,Crazy Extension both ways
> ...


 

 Thank you guys! I appreciate the help, apparently, Mojito's looks like the real "game changer" for this type of signature nowadays I saw they can get for $200 with seller's discount looks a perfect deal then.


----------



## haiku

audionewbi3 said:


> They maybe he ultimate earbuds in terms of detail and brightness, but sometimes, after listening for extended period of times, I will miss the darker sound signatures of the SeaHF's.


 
 I too don´t get why everybody hesitates to try Seahf. Imo, everybody should have heard at least once the rock solid and powerful bass of the LD-3.0 320 Ohm. But why do I care anyway. Their loss!!


----------



## ezekiel77

makahl said:


> Thank you guys! I appreciate the help, apparently, Mojito's looks like the real "game changer" for this type of signature nowadays I saw they can get for $200 with seller's discount looks a perfect deal then.


 
  
 Don't get shortchanged, it's $199 lol.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tayyab pirzada said:


> I agree, the Mojito is the king of cold buds. And the king of warm buds is...Seahf? I thought it was Zen 2?


 
 Nah, never once did I mentioned that the SeaHF's are kings. Always remember, like what Sir Golov mentioned, there can never be one true ultimate bud. Some would swear by the Zen's where as some like yourself would swear by the Mojito's.
  
 Just remember, nothing is absolute in this world hahahaha. 
  


makahl said:


> Thank you guys! I appreciate the help, apparently, Mojito's looks like the real "game changer" for this type of signature nowadays I saw they can get for $200 with seller's discount looks a perfect deal then.


 
 A word of caution though, if you are not used to such sound signatures, you might experience listening fatigue. (Heck, I still get them if I listen to the Mojito's for more than 2 hours straight)


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Ostry KC08 also has insane sub-bass. I don't know if Seahf has more. But seems kind of redudant for me to get Seahf when I have the KC08's.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

My top 3 at present:
  
 1.) Mojito - for cold signature and ultra detail/soundstage
 2.) Ostry KC08 - for warm signature and sub-bass
 3.) Shozy Cygnus - for vocals and mids


----------



## haiku

tayyab pirzada said:


> Ostry KC08 also has insane sub-bass. I don't know if Seahf has more. But seems kind of redudant for me to get Seahf when I have the KC08's.


 

 For one who´s claiming to be on the search for the best earbud, you give up quite early, mate.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

haiku said:


> For one who´s claiming to be on the search for the best earbud, you give up quite early, mate.


 
 lol I have to be smart about what I buy too...sometimes at least


----------



## Makahl

haiku said:


> I too don´t get why everybody hesitates to try Seahf. Imo, everybody should have heard at least once the rock solid and powerful bass of the LD-3.0 320 Ohm. But why do I care anyway. Their loss!!


 
 Is there a huge difference between LD-3.0 and LD-4.0 400 Ohms? I know that's a personal question, but I'd love to see your opinion.
  


audionewbi3 said:


> A word of caution though, if you are not used to such sound signatures, you might experience listening fatigue. (Heck, I still get them if I listen to the Mojito's for more than 2 hours straight)


 

 As a treble-head, I like clinical and neutral sound, but sometimes my old Er4p ain't friendly with bad masters/mixings like 80/90 stuff, but with right records they really shine! Thank you for the advice.


----------



## haiku

tayyab pirzada said:


> lol I have to be smart about what I buy too...sometimes at least


 
  

 Understood, bro.


----------



## haiku

makahl said:


> Is there a huge difference between LD-3.0 and LD-4.0 400 Ohms? I know that's a personal question, but I'd love to see your opinion.
> 
> 
> As a treble-head, I like clinical and neutral sound, but sometimes my old Er4p ain't friendly with bad masters/mixings like 80/90 stuff, but with right records they really shine! Thank you for the advice.


 
 Imo, the LD-4.0 don´t need that much power to shine. The LD-3.0 need all 300mw from my X7´s AM2 to control the bass. They also only sound great when you give them your best recordings. With the LD-4.0, you get fine analog sound quality no matter what you play. I think, they would be more to your liking.


----------



## Arvan

Just got my RX1 and i must say at first listen...They sound rather bad. No treble, honky midrange.. And i thought they would have great treble and rather lean and tight bass  Will give them some burn in...but it aint lookin good.


----------



## audio123

arvan said:


> Just got my RX1 and i must say at first listen...They sound rather bad. No treble, honky midrange.. And i thought they would have great treble and rather lean and tight bass  Will give them some burn in...but it aint lookin good.


 

 they sound great!


----------



## golov17

Auglamour RX-1 16,45 USD


----------



## fairx

arvan said:


> Just got my RX1 and i must say at first listen...They sound rather bad. No treble, honky midrange.. And i thought they would have great treble and rather lean and tight bass  Will give them some burn in...but it aint lookin good.


 
 proper seal, and give it some time, but not much kick / thud in bass department
  
 well who am I to say, I already back to my hawk after 3 days (I loan my hawk to friend so I can focus on RX-1, man those 3 days are quite lonely for me  ).. probably reopen my rx-1 to listen to vocal  and strings albums.


----------



## Thomas De Brito

golov17 said:


> Auglamour RX-1 16,45 USD


 
 Nice price, thanks  it's also from a reputable seller


----------



## haiku

audio123 said:


> they sound great!


 

 Well, in your opinion. No offense, but I think everybody is entitled to make up his own mind when it comes to judging SQ.


----------



## justvinh

arvan said:


> Just got my RX1 and i must say at first listen...They sound rather bad. No treble, honky midrange.. And i thought they would have great treble and rather lean and tight bass  Will give them some burn in...but it aint lookin good.


 
 probably due to the mid range being placed quite forward, the high is not as detailed as the Cygnus but definitely not "no treble" lol. The bass is actually quite tight with fast respond.


----------



## golov17

justvinh said:


> probably due to the mid range being placed quite forward, the high is not as detailed as the Cygnus but definitely not "no treble" lol. The bass is actually quite tight with fast respond.


agree


----------



## kurtextrem

well the RX-1 is a bit complicated to fit in, without donuts they sound waaay worse than Cygnus. Cygnus simply is bud that comes, you put in your ears and it fits instantly. RX-1 is not (but way cheaper).
 but RX-1 with donuts and a good fit, they're great


----------



## Townyj

So far the RX-1 hasnt sounded all that bad to my ears... Only just received mine aswell. Definitely a forward mid range, the highs are pretty sweet to me. I used the full foams, they seal well and it actually opened them up with a better seal. Bass isnt huge at all... for me i would put them on par with my Hawks for now. Will need to listen more and come to a further decision, one thing i will admit is the price is amazing for the sound and package!


----------



## oopeteroo

As people says the cygnus have one of the best mids...I'm wondering how it compare to hd650 ?


----------



## music4mhell

oopeteroo said:


> As people says the cygnus have one of the best mids...I'm wondering how it compare to hd650 ?


 
 hmmm


----------



## mochill

golov17 said:


> This is an impossible dream to get an all in one, it does not happen in this world audio gears, IMHO


we will soon get it all with the nirvana


----------



## golov17

mochill said:


> we will soon get it all with the nirvana


i hope too


----------



## jrazmar

when is this ve nirvana coming out? is it an upgrade for the Zen or just a sidegrade for the existing VE lineup?
  
 this Mojito sound signature bothers me as I'm sensitive to treble. I get easily fatigued with ear-piercing and sibilant notes. Not good for long-term listening for my case. And we are talking of $200 earbuds which I may not be able to resell if I don't like.


----------



## mochill

Mojito is treble happy, nirvana will be out soon


----------



## kurtextrem

mochill said:


> Mojito is treble happy, nirvana will be out soon


 
 Really?
  
  
 btw. it will be at least double the regular Zen 2 I've heard


----------



## luedriver

irrelevant question, does anyone own any packaged earbuds that you never plan to open?
  
 I own 2, the philips she2670bw, that I bought just in case the ones I own break, (I got them both at $5 dollars ears a few years ago, thinking then that they were the best $5 aud buds in the world jokingly), 
  
 and a iCoustic/coby "In ear earphone" (thats what it says on the package, although its actually earbuds) I bought them because icoustic had closed shop and wanted to have the earbuds that came with my icoustic mp4 player (that doesn't even work anymore) I doubt they are any good, so I never think of them, instead, keep them in the box, as if it will increase in value


----------



## haiku

luedriver said:


> irrelevant question, does anyone own any packaged earbuds that you never plan to open?
> 
> I own 2, the philips she2670bw, that I bought just in case the ones I own break, (I got them both at $5 dollars ears a few years ago, thinking then that they were the best $5 aud buds in the world jokingly),
> 
> and a iCoustic/coby "In ear earphone" (thats what it says on the package, although its actually earbuds) I bought them because icoustic had closed shop and wanted to have the earbuds that came with my icoustic mp4 player (that doesn't even work anymore) I doubt they are any good, so I never think of them, instead, keep them in the box, as if it will increase in value


 
  

 20 Monks here, which I plan to sale anytime I should be short of cash!


----------



## kinetic758

haiku said:


> 20 Monks here, which I plan to sale anytime I should be short of cash!




Ha. Perhaps Monks should be Head-fi's official Bitcoin.


----------



## golov17

Remax 305M
Delicate sound with a pleasant tones, small housing, drivers 13,4 mm, the build quality is very high. I like it! IMHO


----------



## kurtextrem

golov17 said:


> Remax 305M
> Delicate sound with a pleasant tones, small housing, drivers 13,4 mm, the build quality is very high. I like it! IMHO


 
 anything to compare with?
  
 btw. where is the Moondrop VX Pro?


----------



## klove4252

I've had the Zen 2.0 Black Edition 2.5mm version for about a week now, and I am very impressed. It is right up there with the Mojito for my go to earbud.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> Remax 305M
> Delicate sound with a pleasant tones, small housing, drivers 13,4 mm, the build quality is very high. I like it! IMHO


 
  
 Is there any earbud you do not like?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 --


----------



## Arvan

justvinh said:


> probably due to the mid range being placed quite forward, the high is not as detailed as the Cygnus but definitely not "no treble" lol. The bass is actually quite tight with fast respond.


 
 Nothing wrong with the bass, its rather quick and solid. Also the bass is much better defined and less bloated compared to the monks. The mids are forward indeed, i like foward mids! And after some burn in the echo chambers seems to calmed down a bit. I just wish there was more top end since i really do think they are rather rolled off. That said, i am a big fan of treble and detail and prefer it over thumping bass so there is my reference. I also find the housings to small for my ears but they stay in place okay with the foams.
  
 The build quality alone is worth the money and they sound better than the monks.


----------



## mochill

kurtextrem said:


> mochill said:
> 
> 
> > Mojito is treble happy, nirvana will be out soon
> ...


will be worth it


----------



## Saoshyant

To my ears, I prefer the vocals of the Crow Audio Signature Edition to the Cygnus. It's the closest to authentic/lifelike vocals I've heard in an earbud. It's a mod on the original Monk.


----------



## golov17

Remax 305M good for light genres of music, smooth jazz, instrumental etc..


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> Is there any earbud you do not like?
> 
> --


Yes, Jiushao e600, Edifier h180, Sennheiser mx980, Yuin pk1,3, Vsonic uu2, JBL Tempo, Hisound PAA-1, etc..


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> Remax 305M
> Delicate sound with a pleasant tones, small housing, drivers 13,4 mm, the build quality is very high. I like it! IMHO


how is compare tp remax 203 ?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> Yes, Jiushao e600, Edifier h180, Sennheiser mx980, Yuin pk1,3, Vsonic uu2, JBL Tempo, Hisound PAA-1, etc..


 
  
 Awesome.  I've never tried any of those, except for Edifier H180 (I gave my pair away), I will avoid all the rest.  
  
 --


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> how is compare tp remax 203 ?


What is 203? Any pics, plz


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > how is compare tp remax 203 ?
> ...


sorry remax 303
Beautiful Gift New REMAX RM-303 Stereo Earphone With Mic Earbud For Mobile Phone Free Shipping May10
 http://s.aliexpress.com/Vb6bQRji 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> sorry remax 303
> Beautiful Gift New REMAX RM-303 Stereo Earphone With Mic Earbud For Mobile Phone Free Shipping May10
> http://s.aliexpress.com/Vb6bQRji
> (from AliExpress Android)


absolutely different sound sig, i like them too


----------



## petan970

bloodypenguin said:


> I received the T-Music DIY Earbud today.  Burned it a bit throughout the day and night.
> 
> Initial impressions are they sure do have a substantial bass response.  I would say they have a slightly V shaped signature.
> 
> Overall sound is quite fun, with enough detail to keep them interesting.


 
  
  
 T-Music are my first earbuds and I absolutly agree with you that they are really good. For the price <10 USD they are just excellent.


----------



## Tomasz2D

mochill said:


> we will soon get it all with the nirvana


 
  
 I guess mochill refers to this, for those who do not follow VE on FB:
  
 Lee from VE: "...  u will know in about 5 days"


----------



## sharkz

Can someone post the link to buy the T-Music buds? I keep losing the link in the mass of pages here.


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> I guess mochill refers to this, for those who do not follow VE on FB:
> 
> Lee from VE: "...  u will know in about 5 days"


nope..


----------



## BloodyPenguin

sharkz said:


> Can someone post the link to buy the T-Music buds? I keep losing the link in the mass of pages here.


 
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/T-Music-Professional-DIY-HiFi-Headphone-Cable/32686800517.html
  
 Good Cheap Thrills.


----------



## Tomasz2D

golov17 said:


> nope..


 
  
 "not nirvana" - pecular name for headphones


----------



## sharkz

bloodypenguin said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/T-Music-Professional-DIY-HiFi-Headphone-Cable/32686800517.html
> 
> Good Cheap Thrills.


 
  
 Thank you very much. I'm looking to play with something different after having PK1s for a few years now. I have EM3s for the gym and Baldoor E100s I use for podcasts at my desk, but want to try a few new flavors of earbuds. I have some Massdrop Monk+'s inbound as well but think I am going to grab some T-Music and Faaeal 64ohms to compare them to.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Lune MKIII cable just arrived. Time to mod my Mojito.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada




----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


>


Looks great


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

After A/B testing a number of times, here are my conclusions:
  
 Lune MKIII cable: 
 - Adds more bass
 - Subtracts from Mojito soundstage and ultra-detail
  
 Stock cable:
 - Less bass
 - More soundstage and ultra-detail
  
 I think I'm going to stick to the stock cable.


----------



## rggz

tayyab pirzada said:


> After A/B testing a number of times, here are my conclusions:
> 
> Lune MKIII cable:
> - Adds more bass
> ...


 

 Cool! I think isn't your case, but those 2pin connectors make something like a "trap" if you invert the pins position you'll invert the polarity as well and that can change the sound a bit in low frequencies. You can check here if the polarity is correct.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

rggz said:


> Cool! I think isn't your case, but those 2pin connectors make something like a "trap" if you invert the pins position you'll invert the polarity as well and that can change the sound a bit in low frequencies. You can check here if the polarity is correct.


 
 thank for this


----------



## music4mhell

tayyab pirzada said:


> rggz said:
> 
> 
> > Cool! I think isn't your case, but those 2pin connectors make something like a "trap" if you invert the pins position you'll invert the polarity as well and that can change the sound a bit in low frequencies. You can check here if the polarity is correct.
> ...


 
 Any more discovery on ur new Mojito cable ?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

music4mhell said:


> Any more discovery on ur new Mojito cable ?




Bass impact is much much better.

For bassheads this cable mod is a must for the Mojito.

But im not a basshead...so ill be returning the cable. Im a details and soundstage head.


----------



## music4mhell

tayyab pirzada said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Any more discovery on ur new Mojito cable ?
> ...


 
 You should try Ting once, it's of your taste for sure.


----------



## haiku

music4mhell said:


> You should try Ting once, it's of your taste for sure.


 

 Also the "Old Monk" that comes with the Zen. For me, no earbud beats the old monk when it comes to having fun. I´m one of a few, who haven´t fallen in love with the Monk+.


----------



## golov17

haiku said:


> Also the "Old Monk" that comes with the Zen. For me, no earbud beats the old monk when it comes to having fun. I´m one of a few, who haven´t fallen in love with the Monk+.


with red logo?


----------



## Saoshyant

Even with increased bass, I don't see any way the Mojito will reach basshead levels.  I'm just unaware of any actual basshead earbud.  There are some that are certainly bassier than others, but basshead really requires a rather impressive amount of bass.  @haiku I for one feel the original Monk is better suited to my tastes.  It's just quite a bit of fun, and not difficult to drive compared to some others.  Never really understood the point of trying to push towards 600 ohm earbuds.


----------



## haiku

golov17 said:


> with red logo?


 

 No, the next generation. Do you have the red logo ones? How do they sound compared to the other generations?
 I don´t know why, but when I listen with the Monk+, I always get headaches after a few minutes....


----------



## haiku

saoshyant said:


> Never really understood the point of trying to push towards 600 ohm earbuds.


 

 It´s the vocals and soundstage, mate, it´s the vocals and soundstage!


----------



## justvinh

The left piece of my RX-1 started to develop distortion in the sound to the point it is audible at normal listening volume and I have only used them for a day, luckily I bought mine from penonaudio


----------



## Danneq

haiku said:


> Also the "Old Monk" that comes with the Zen. For me, no earbud beats the old monk when it comes to having fun. I´m one of a few, who haven´t fallen in love with the Monk+.


 


 Have you tried TY Hi-Z HP-32? To me it sounds very similar to the original Monk (the one before M+) but with better bass...


----------



## Saoshyant

haiku said:


> It´s the vocals and soundstage, mate, it´s the vocals and soundstage!   :eek:




Both Cygnus & Mojito are low ohm earbuds, however.


----------



## haiku

danneq said:


> Have you tried TY Hi-Z HP-32? To me it sounds very similar to the original Monk (the one before M+) but with better bass...


 

 No I haven´t. Thanks for the suggestion!


----------



## haiku

saoshyant said:


> Both Cygnus & Mojito are low ohm earbuds, however.


 

 Listen to some 400 Ohm if you can, then I think you know what I mean.


----------



## jrazmar

haiku said:


> Listen to some 400 Ohm if you can, then I think you know what I mean.


 
  
 Cygnus, to me, is better than Zen 2.0 in terms of vocals. YMMV


----------



## haiku

jrazmar said:


> Cygnus, to me, is better than Zen 2.0 in terms of vocals. YMMV


 
  

 Zen is 320, not 400 Ohm.


----------



## jrazmar

oh I see, haiku. never listened to a 400 ohm earbuds before. I just thought that 320 ohm to 600 ohm, the difference is not that big. so I assume between 320 and 400, the gap is negligible.


----------



## haiku

jrazmar said:


> oh I see, haiku. never listened to a 400 ohm earbuds before. I just thought that 320 ohm to 600 ohm, the difference is not that big. so I assume between 320 and 400, the gap is negligible.


 

 Nope. With my Seahf here, there´s a very noticable difference between the 320 and 400 Ohm. I´d think that VE´s "Nirvana" will also be a higher ohm bud.
 Btw, if someone thinks about ordering stuff from taobao, my suggestion is always choose express shipping. It takes forever for them to process orders....


----------



## Tomasz2D

So this is an earbuds day for me today. Or even bright earbuds day although it is quite cloudly here right now.
  
 Today I got:
 Black Onyx Earbud
 VJJB C1
 SeaHF 150
 Pai Audio 3.14 PR1
 BlackBud Color
  
 What a coincidence as far as sound signature is concerned. All of them are on clear/detailed and brighter side. This is kind of relief from Awei/VE/Seahf/TY/T-Music/JiuShao darker and warmer kind of sound I have listened to recently. I have impresion that even SeaHF 150 plays clearer and brighter then the rest of SeaHF lineup.
  
 I think all above are already known to this community so I only post picture of BlackBud Color here as I do not remember Color version has been mentioned yet.


----------



## haiku

tomasz2d said:


> So this is an earbuds day for me today. Or even bright earbuds day although it is quite cloudly here right now.
> 
> Today I got:
> Black Onyx Earbud
> ...


 
  

 Listening with the Seahf LD-3.0 150 Ohm, too. "Bat Out Of Hell" at FULL BLAST!! YEAH!!


----------



## haiku

tomasz2d said:


> I have impresion that even SeaHF 150 plays clearer and brighter then the rest of SeaHF lineup.


 
  
 From my experience, I would say it is more forgiving than the rest, when it comes to the quality of the recordings + the gear you use. The LD-4.0 400 Ohm scales the best. The better the gear and the recording, the better it sounds. The most stubborn animal is 320 Ohm V1. Feed it the right stuff and - there I agree with AudioNewbi - it creates a sound, an atmosphere and a "realness" which I think is unbeatable. But if you refuse to give it what it wants, it can also sound compressed and thin, with an almost non-existing bass. I really have a love/hate relationship with it. Maybe it just takes more time for me "to tame this beast"....


----------



## Tomasz2D

haiku said:


> The most stubborn animal is 320 Ohm V1. Feed it the right stuff and - there I agree with AudioNewbi - it creates a sound, an atmosphere and a "realness" which I think is unbeatable. But if you refuse to give it what it wants, it can also sound compressed and thin, with an almost non-existing bass. I really have a love/hate relationship with it. Maybe it just takes more time for me "to tame this beast"....


 
  
 I had only few listening sessions with Smart 1.0 320 Ohm and... OK, if you analize this bud there is nothing wrong with it - is has lows/mids/highs, correct balance, the soundstage is right and with details. In theory nothing to complain about. But when I listen to it it is numb, lifeless, dead. Just no joy. That's it. Maybe I must spend with it some more time and try to tame it


----------



## haiku

tomasz2d said:


> I had only few listening sessions with Smart 1.0 320 Ohm and... OK, if you analize this bud there is nothing wrong with it - is has lows/mids/highs, correct balance, the soundstage is right and with details. In theory nothing to complain about. But when I listen to it it is numb, lifeless, dead. Just no joy. That's it. Maybe I must spend with it some more time and try to tame it


 

 Throw some of your most loved recordings at it and see what happens. Maybe then you experience the same as audionewbi and me. And then you never want to be without it....


----------



## music4mhell

tomasz2d said:


> haiku said:
> 
> 
> > The most stubborn animal is 320 Ohm V1. Feed it the right stuff and - there I agree with AudioNewbi - it creates a sound, an atmosphere and a "realness" which I think is unbeatable. But if you refuse to give it what it wants, it can also sound compressed and thin, with an almost non-existing bass. I really have a love/hate relationship with it. Maybe it just takes more time for me "to tame this beast"....
> ...


 
 I totally agree with you, i have the 400 Ohms version, it has everything, but not so musical like Ting/Zen/Cygnus/Mojito.


----------



## haiku

music4mhell said:


> I totally agree with you, i have the 400 Ohms version, it has everything, but not so musical like Ting/Zen/Cygnus/Mojito.


 

 Do you have the 4.0 400 Ohm?


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I totally agree with you, i have the 400 Ohms version, it has everything, but not so musical like Ting/Zen/Cygnus/Mojito.
> ...


 
 No no,
 Mine is Dark horse G400. It's equivalent to LD 3 400


----------



## haiku

music4mhell said:


> No no,
> Mine is Dark horse G400. It's equivalent to LD 3 400


 

 You´re sure about that? Have you heard both? Afaik, DH, TY and Seahf are tuned differently.


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> I totally agree with you, i have the 400 Ohms version, it has everything, but not so musical like Ting/Zen/Cygnus/Mojito.


better from Seahf for my taste Ty Hi-Z32 & LD3.0 400. Done.


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > No no,
> ...


 
 True not 100% same, but very much same as per past discussions


----------



## vapman

IMO Nt bg enough of a tuning different in order to save money presuaab.
  
 you can both which you want. , fir anyone who has both and can compare them ,t it with appreciately immensely  lie awlays.
  
 this weeks ismusic and non plus festi. i will post more when
  
 Anyoone can write cheap reviews but I am earger to hear a decent r eview with comparisons. l)


----------



## Tomasz2D

haiku said:


> Throw some of your most loved recordings at it and see what happens. Maybe then you experience the same as audionewbi and me. And then you never want to be without it....


 
  
 I will try and by the way I have white cable version of Smart 1.0 320 Ohm and to be honest I bought it mainly becouse it was said it is made the same as old Zen 1.0 was made and I was curious how Zen 1.0 sounds (of course with some proximity becouse they are not exactly the same as AudioNewbi checked with "bug guy"). But I have Smart 2.0 on the way - and this one I have ordered because of you (so look out!).
  
 From what I heard by "bug guy" I like TY Hi-Z HP-32 32 Ohm the most and then Monk 1.0, and this is why:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/7980#post_12774249
  
 But I am looking forward to more listening sessions with Seahf 150 that I got today.


----------



## haiku

vapman said:


> IMO Nt bg enough of a tuning different in order to save money presuaab.
> 
> you can both which you want. , fir anyone who has both and can compare them ,t it with appreciately immensely  lie awlays.
> 
> ...


 

 There are no authorities on anything for me, anyway. In the end, you always listen with your own ears...


----------



## springbay

Man it's difficult to keep up with all the postings of the various buds. I've made a couple of orders (based on the latest buzz in this tread) and some that I was just too curious not to try. These are incoming:
  
 AUGLAMOUR RX-1
 FAAEAL 64ohm
 FAAEAL 300ohm DIY
 Mr MusicMaker TP16
 Seahf LD-3.0 320ohm
 T-Music DIY
 TY Hi-Z 32ohm
 TY Hi-Z 150ohm
  
 Did I miss any relevant ones that I don't already have (what I have is listed in my profile) that can be bought on AE?
  
 I will not order the Mojitos at the current price point, because I suspect they will have an even more problematic fit in my ears than the Tomahawks, and also because I enjoy a more analogue/dark signature.
  
 Did I get it right that the LD-3.0 320ohm is the one that is kind of similar to the old Zen?


----------



## haiku

springbay said:


> Man it's difficult to keep up with all the postings of the various buds. I've made a couple of orders (based on the latest buzz in this tread) and some that I was just too curious not to try. These are incoming:
> 
> 
> 
> Did I get it right that the LD-3.0 320ohm is the one that is kind of similar to the old Zen?


 
 I would say so, yes. Bass might be even better.


----------



## springbay

haiku said:


> I would say so, yes. Bass might be even better.


 

 Thanks! I feel better now. These Seahf/Dark horse/TY Hi-Z buds would need to have a special thread to keep track of them all. It's just too confusing trying to understand which is which.


----------



## golov17

haiku said:


> I would say so, yes. Bass might be even better.


best sub-bass have Zen1.0 than LD3.0 320 IMHO


----------



## vapman

springbay said:


> Man it's difficult to keep up with all the postings of the various buds. I've made a couple of orders (based on the latest buzz in this tread) and some that I was just too curious not to try. These are incoming:
> 
> AUGLAMOUR RX-1
> FAAEAL 64ohm
> ...


 

 Refc the Autgalomour foor two reasonn
  
 THe oerver the ear inresed (/IEM style) keps hem perfect in plce for me.
  
 if you ment to the original zen 1.0 i have hever seen or sensed it.


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> best sub-bass have Zen1.0 than LD3.0 320 IMHO


 

 we should start making our own lists lije ckueis o
  
 fiir dydes beeu= dioung ut fitr 6 years,


----------



## Pastapipo

While I didn't digg the Monks at all. The TY Hi-Z 32ohm are the bomb. Just got them out of the box and I really enjoy them.
 Thanks for the recommendation guys!


----------



## fairx

springbay said:


> Thanks! I feel better now. These Seahf/Dark horse/TY Hi-Z buds would need to have a special thread to keep track of them all. It's just too confusing trying to understand which is which.



Yes I support this. 

Can somebody please create new thread just like VE thread. It's easier to keep up since they're variety of bug guy driver out there.


----------



## haiku

fairx said:


> Yes I support this.
> 
> Can somebody please create new thread just like VE thread. It's easier to keep up since they're variety of bug guy driver out there.


 

 I thought about it, but I don´t know if it´s a good idea. Only a few seem to be interested, and I know nothing about Dark Horse, TY, EA and the rest.


----------



## haiku

golov17 said:


> best sub-bass have Zen1.0 than LD3.0 320 IMHO


 

 best sub-bass rather LD-3.0 400 Ohm, but difficult to control. Needs lots of power. Only a few Daps can provide that. Better stacking.


----------



## Tomasz2D

haiku said:


> best sub-bass rather LD-3.0 400 Ohm, but difficult to control. Needs lots of power. Only a few Daps can provide that. Better stacking.


 
  
 By the way, do you plan to keep up with SeaHF line-up in the future or maybe even expand your interest also to other "bug guy" earbuds sold under other brand names?


----------



## haiku

tomasz2d said:


> By the way, do you plan to keep up with SeaHF line-up in the future or maybe even expand your interest also to other "bug guy" earbuds sold under other brand names?


 

 One step at a time, bro. Next is K´s 500 Ohm earbuds.


----------



## Tomasz2D

springbay said:


> Did I miss any relevant ones that I don't already have (what I have is listed in my profile) that can be bought on AE?


 
  
 But what are you looking for? Anything specific? You can just dig through this thread from the beginning and you will find a lot of suggestions that are worth checking.


----------



## haiku

Today, I did a little session with old Monk, Monk+, Seahf 3.0 150 Ohm, 320 Ohm V1+2.
 First the old Monk which at first wowed me like the first time I put it on. But after some minutes, I quickly noticed it´s shortcomings: it has become too mid-centric for me, also not enough space, and all in all it´s just too much "in your face" sounding for me.
 Then Monk+. Sounds too compressed, quickly gave me headaches again.
 Seahf 150 Ohm: Much smoother sound across the whole spectrum. Space opened up (what a relieve!). 
 320 Ohm V1 ("The Beast"): Played "Anticipation" (Carly Simon), first Song, my emotions took over, started to cry. Had to listen to the whole album. What a ******* great earbud it can be....
 V2: Has the most dynamic sound signature of the lot, completely fatigue free, punchy bass, analog like treble. Best for everyday use.
 All imo. YMMVVM.


----------



## mochill

How does 320 v1 compare to Zen 1 and 2


----------



## David Mitchell

@golov17, @jamesbdh, @music4mhell, @ozkan, @Tayyab Pirzada, @vapman: I won't even try to quote you all, but thanks for your comments!
  
 For those who weren't sure about the Sennheiser HD580: in case you're familiar with the HD600, that is a tweaked version of the HD580. That said, it's been a while since I've used the HD580 regularly, and I'm not _necessarily _looking for that sound — it's just my reference point. Also, I'm not trying to cover the music-listening front so much with this first purchase; I intend to use the headset with my phone for calls and podcast listening, primarily (though some of the podcasts are musical).
  
 I do plan to get a Monk Plus (or two) before long for music listening … unless I'm persuaded to skip to the RX-1. By the way, my sister asked me about new earbuds, I was able to recommend the Monk Plus because of this thread, and she's already ordered herself a pair!
  
 So, based on the discussion to date, I currently have the Edifier H185P at the top of my list and the Remax RM-303 second. Any comments on sound quality between them for the user or the listener at the other end of the call?
  
 Also, I know this introduces a completely different variable, but do any of these have remote-control buttons? (I have an Android phone.) I just realized last night that would be very handy.


----------



## fairx

haiku said:


> Today, I did a little session with old Monk, Monk+, Seahf 3.0 150 Ohm, 320 Ohm V1+2.
> First the old Monk which at first wowed me like the first time I put it on. But after some minutes, I quickly noticed it´s shortcomings: it has become too mid-centric for me, also not enough space, and all in all it´s just too much "in your face" sounding for me.
> Then Monk+. Sounds too compressed, quickly gave me headaches again.
> Seahf 150 Ohm: Much smoother sound across the whole spectrum. Space opened up (what a relieve!).
> ...



I've been tempted by seahf 320 ohm v1 for quite some time. Can you / anybody suggest matching budget amp to pair?


----------



## audio123

fairx said:


> I've been tempted by seahf 320 ohm v1 for quite some time. Can you / anybody suggest matching budget amp to pair?


 
 topping nx1?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

mochill said:


> How does 320 v1 compare to Zen 1 and 2




+1


----------



## AudioNewbi3

haiku said:


> It´s the vocals and soundstage, mate, it´s the vocals and soundstage!


 
  
  
  


tomasz2d said:


> So this is an earbuds day for me today. Or even bright earbuds day although it is quite cloudly here right now.
> 
> Today I got:
> Black Onyx Earbud
> ...


 
  
 Good Sound Gadget earbud?


springbay said:


> Thanks! I feel better now. These Seahf/Dark horse/TY Hi-Z buds would need to have a special thread to keep track of them all. It's just too confusing trying to understand which is which.


 
 I made a reference list of the SeaHF buds on this thread with links (though not that complete). Kindly search for Reference or SeaHF refence, bug guys
  


haiku said:


> One step at a time, bro. Next is K´s 500 Ohm earbuds.


 
 Bloody looking forward to your impression on them.
 I want to buy the Puresound 500Ohm so badly, but I am afraid hahahaha


----------



## golov17

Meizu ep21hd with RC 3 Buttons for Android, Remax 305m have too


----------



## ozkan

haiku said:


> Today, I did a little session with old Monk, Monk+, Seahf 3.0 150 Ohm, 320 Ohm V1+2.
> First the old Monk which at first wowed me like the first time I put it on. But after some minutes, I quickly noticed it´s shortcomings: it has become too mid-centric for me, also not enough space, and all in all it´s just too much "in your face" sounding for me.
> Then Monk+. Sounds too compressed, quickly gave me headaches again.
> Seahf 150 Ohm: Much smoother sound across the whole spectrum. Space opened up (what a relieve!).
> ...


. 

Haven't heard the rest though but your comments on Monk plus being compressed and giving you headaches really surprised me. If Seahf 150 ohm sounds more open than the Monk plus which on the contrary I find them very detailed and open even more than the old Monk, I might wanna try that Seahf.


----------



## ozkan

audio123 said:


> topping nx1?




Nope. NX1 can only drive headphones up to 150 ohm so they will be weak for Seahf V1 320 ohm.


----------



## golov17

haiku said:


> best sub-bass rather LD-3.0 400 Ohm, but difficult to control. Needs lots of power. Only a few Daps can provide that. Better stacking.


i compare both with 3 amp, btw


----------



## golov17

fairx said:


> I've been tempted by seahf 320 ohm v1 for quite some time. Can you / anybody suggest matching budget amp to pair?


Ve Runabout


----------



## haiku

golov17 said:


> Ve Runabout


 

 Maybe also Bengkel Macro , or is it too expensive, Golov?


----------



## golov17

Venture Electronics VE RunAbout Portable Earphone Amplifier
 http://s.aliexpress.com/Br2mUjIr 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## golov17

haiku said:


> Maybe also Bengkel Macro , or is it too expensive, Golov?


Maybe too..
http://bengkelmacro.com/v2/product/bmac-3ch-mark-ii-portable-headphone-amplifier/


----------



## fairx

ozkan said:


> Nope. NX1 can only drive headphones up to 150 ohm so they will be weak for Seahf V1 320 ohm.




My hesitation, exactly. 


golov17 said:


> Ve Runabout



Can it future proof up to crazy next 500ohm earbud? 

Sadly financial not very helpful right now. Been thinking cayin amp.


----------



## golov17

fairx said:


> My hesitation, exactly.
> Can it future proof up to crazy next 500ohm earbud?
> 
> Sadly financial not very helpful right now. Been thinking cayin amp.


 go to Topping NX-5 mini, I ordered too..


----------



## haiku

ozkan said:


> .
> 
> Haven't heard the rest though but your comments on Monk plus being compressed and giving you headaches really surprised me. If Seahf 150 ohm sounds more open than the Monk plus which on the contrary I find them very detailed and open even more than the old Monk, I might wanna try that Seahf.


 

 Hey ozkan!
 Yeah, I´ve been really disappointed, but what can I do? I really, really wanted to love the MP as much as I love the old Monk....  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Well, if your experience differs so much from mine, you should think twice before you order them. They have a very different sound signature.


----------



## golov17

haiku said:


> Hey ozkan!
> Yeah, I´ve been really disappointed, but what can I do? I really, really wanted to love the MP as much as I love the old Monk....
> Well, if your experience differs so much from mine, you should think twice before you order them. They have a very different sound signature.


 It is safest to buy Ty Hi-Z 32 and Qian25, IMHO, and see what happens..


----------



## haiku

tayyab pirzada said:


> +1


 

 It doesn´t compare at all, Tayyab. Zen 1+2 are earbuds for everyday use, that sound great with everything. Seahf 320 Ohm V1 has moments, where it excels everything I´ve heard so far, it´s sound captures you totally, and takes you with it. Right now, I listen to "Jazz Carnival" by Azymuth, and I´ve never heard them play with such groove and joy. Makes you wanna dance (like Snoopy always did!). But very often, the V1 sounds just too bright and thin with my music.


----------



## haiku

golov17 said:


> It is safest to buy Ty Hi-Z 32 and Qian25, IMHO, and see what happens..


 
  

 What Golov says.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

ozkan said:


> Nope. NX1 can only drive headphones up to 150 ohm so they will be weak for Seahf V1 320 ohm.


 
 Maybe one has to remember that the are rated for _headphones_ and _not earbuds/iems_? Or am I just tripping?

 For example if an amp is rated only up to 150Ohms of impedance driving capability for headphones, would that be the same for earbuds?
 This is because:
 a) Headphone drivers are significantly larger than earbud or iem dynamic drivers (50mm vs 13mm or 14mm)
 b) They are constructed differently
  
 Maybe?
  
 EDIT: @ClieOS sifu, can you kindly clarify? Thank-you


----------



## Tomasz2D

audionewbi3 said:


> Good Sound Gadget earbud?


 
  
 Correct.
  



ozkan said:


> Haven't heard the rest though but your comments on Monk plus being compressed and giving you headaches really surprised me. If Seahf 150 ohm sounds more open than the Monk plus which on the contrary I find them very detailed and open even more than the old Monk, I might wanna try that Seahf.


 
  
 I have just made A/B comparison and Monk Plus is more balanced. Seahf 150 is very bass heavy and I mean VERY. This is like you have a subwoofer turned up too loud than the rest of your audio setup. So when you put on Seahf 150 you will adjust its volume to the level that is comfortable to you according to the bass that is predominant. Then mids and highs will sound distance and in this way you get the feeling of openess. 
  
 When comparing them A/B I prefered more balanced Monk Plus.


----------



## haiku

audionewbi3 said:


> Bloody looking forward to your impression on them.
> I want to buy the Puresound 500Ohm so badly, but I am afraid hahahaha


 
 Should arrive by the end of the week, hopefully. And I really hope it does, because I´m in deep trouble atm, because of the moments with 320 Ohm V1. I would love so much to have more of those moments where I can just merge with the music, but my other earbuds can´t even give me one of these sonic experiences, so I grab the V1 again, in desperation.... I hope the K´s can redeem me from my suffering.


----------



## haiku

tomasz2d said:


> I have just made A/B comparison and Monk Plus is more balanced. Seahf 150 is very bass heavy and I mean VERY. This is like you have a subwoofer turned up too loud than the rest of your audio setup. So when you put on Seahf 150 you will adjust its volume to the level that is comfortable to you according to the bass that is predominant. Then mids and highs will sound distance and in this way you get the feeling of openess.
> 
> When comparing them A/B I prefered more balanced Monk Plus.


 

 They will balance themselves over time. But you´re right, at first they´re very bassy.


----------



## Tomasz2D

haiku said:


> They will balance themselves over time. But you´re right, at first they´re very bassy.


 
  
 This is not bad to own bassy earbud for a change. This is just not allrounder for me but for some music styles can be perfect or can be good alrounder for somebody else.


----------



## haiku

tomasz2d said:


> This is not bad to own bassy earbud for a change. This is just not allrounder for me but for some music styles can be perfect or can be good alrounder for somebody else.


 

 Ld-4.0 400 Ohm is the allrounder imo.
 LD-3.0 400 Ohm + powerful enough Dap/Amp - the bass can blow your head off.


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> Maybe one has to remember that the are rated for _headphones_ and _not earbuds/iems_? Or am I just tripping?
> 
> For example if an amp is rated only up to 150Ohms of impedance driving capability for headphones, would that be the same for earbuds?
> This is because:
> ...


 
  
 First thing, to say NX1 is 'rated only up to 150ohm' in itself is a misunderstandaing of how spec works. To see how any *specific* load will work on amp, you need to put them into measurement. One particular 150ohm headphone (in general, including earphone) might work fine with NX1 while another 150ohm headphone might not - because impedance is only one of the spec of headphone - you also need to consider the sensitivity of the headphone as well as the power output of the amp reacting to the impedance / sensitivity / current draw of the load. You can NOT just say certain amp is rated for certain impedance while just ignoring all other aspects of the setup. The world doesn't work in such simple way. Many manufacturer will throw out simple spec and list one amp for certain impedance range not because it is the correct thing to do, but because it is the easiest way to make a complex issue seems understandable to less knowledgeable consumer, even though it is completely wrong.


----------



## kinetic758

Any of you Rose Mojito owners want to do me a favor?
  
 If you run either the "Quality" or "Driver Matching" tests here:
  
 http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php
  
 Can you see if you experience any buzzing/rattling in either one of the drivers?
  
 On my pair, I have buzzing on the right side.  Pretty disappointing given the price of these things.  Wondering if I should attempt to arrange a replacement pair or if this is somewhat "normal".


----------



## vapman

kinetic758 said:


> Any of you Rose Mojito owners want to do me a favor?
> 
> If you run either the "Quality" or "Driver Matching" tests here:
> 
> ...


 
  
 i don't currently own the mojito but i know for a fact that buzzing/rattling is bad and should not be happening. I'd have them replaced


----------



## ezekiel77

kinetic758 said:


> Any of you Rose Mojito owners want to do me a favor?
> 
> If you run either the "Quality" or "Driver Matching" tests here:
> 
> ...




I have rattling at the right side if the volume is 70-80%. At normal listening volumes (about 50%) they don't. This is from my Mi5 cellphone.


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> i don't currently own the mojito but i know for a fact that buzzing/rattling is bad and should not be happening. I'd have them replaced


 
  
 Thanks.  The interesting thing is that ALL my earbuds buzz to a certain extent with this test (Cygnus, RX1, Ting, etc).  Impressively, the LEFT side of my Mojito is the only one that doesn't.  Granted, it can't really be noticed during regular use.  I guess once you start looking for problems you'll find them!


----------



## kinetic758

ezekiel77 said:


> I have rattling at the right side if the volume is 70-80%. At normal listening volumes (about 50%) they don't. This is from my Mi5 cellphone.


 
  
 Thank you.  I'm getting rattle at fairly normal levels, although I suppose "normal" is a relative term.


----------



## vapman

kinetic758 said:


> Thanks.  The interesting thing is that ALL my earbuds buzz to a certain extent with this test (Cygnus, RX1, Ting, etc).  Impressively, the LEFT side of my Mojito is the only one that doesn't.  Granted, it can't really be noticed during regular use.  I guess once you start looking for problems you'll find them!


 
  
 If it's happening with ALL your earbuds i seriously doubt any of them are actually damaged.
  
 perhaps something in the amp or DAC stage is causing the buzziness. After all it is a test track to make the buzz happen if it's there at all.
  
 I was thinking one of your mojito sounded perfectly fine and the other was like a farty broken speeaker.


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> If it's happening with ALL your earbuds i seriously doubt any of them are actually damaged.
> 
> perhaps something in the amp or DAC stage is causing the buzziness. After all it is a test track to make the buzz happen if it's there at all.
> 
> I was thinking one of your mojito sounded perfectly fine and the other was like a farty broken speeaker.


 
  
 I take that back... the Monk+ (the cheapest!) buds don't buzz.  I did suspect the DAC stage, however, if that were the culprit wouldn't ALL of them be buzzing on the right side only?


----------



## vapman

kinetic758 said:


> I take that back... the Monk+ (the cheapest!) buds don't buzz.  I did suspect the DAC stage, however, if that were the culprit wouldn't ALL of them be buzzing on the right side only?


 
  
 could also be the amp struggling to put out enough power to make the proper sound and instead distorting.
 if you never notice the buzzing during any sort of normal use i would not be too concerned.


----------



## ezekiel77

Bullet dodged I guess. If it doesn't rattle while playing Massive Attack's Angel, it's good to go.


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> could also be the amp struggling to put out enough power to make the proper sound and instead distorting.
> if you never notice the buzzing during any sort of normal use i would not be too concerned.




I swapped the left and right connectors. The buzz is still coming from the same earbud but it's reduced now. I'm puzzled. 



ezekiel77 said:


> Bullet dodged I guess. If it doesn't rattle while playing Massive Attack's Angel, it's good to go.




A great song! I'll try that tomorrow.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Awei AS10 just came in...after like 2 months


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> Awei AS10 just came in...after like 2 months


too looooong


----------



## BloodyPenguin

tayyab pirzada said:


> Awei AS10 just came in...after like 2 months


 
  
 Did you mean the Awei ES10?
  
 The ES10 was my FIRST earbud.  It it is when I fell in love with this form factor.  I could not believe how good they sounded.  Of course now, they would be one of the lower quality playback, but I gave all my pairs away to for friends and family.
  
 --


----------



## phiely

Link to purchase Seahf V1 320 ohm, please.


----------



## Makahl

tayyab pirzada said:


> Awei AS10 just came in...after like 2 months


 

 and did you received Edimun V3? If yes, is that worth the hype?


----------



## ustinj

Ended up getting the RX-1 today and they're pretty disappointing. They sound worse than Monks IMO (original). Less bass impact so Monk sounds a little more congested, but a serious upper-mid peak that makes it partly sibilant and mids thin.


----------



## vapman

phiely said:


> Link to purchase Seahf V1 320 ohm, please.


 
 A time machine, the classifieds, or a seller who's still sitting on some V1's.
  
 We're up to version 4 if you weren't aware


----------



## Makahl

ustinj said:


> Ended up getting the RX-1 today and they're pretty disappointing. They sound worse than Monks IMO (original). Less bass impact so Monk sounds a little more congested, but a serious upper-mid peak that makes it partly sibilant and mids thin.


 

 Are you using it with foams? I've read in this thread the fit is important to get the right bass of RX-1 maybe you should try to fit it like an IEM style and see if it improve something.


----------



## ustinj

makahl said:


> Are you using it with foams? I've read in this thread the fit is important to get the right bass of RX-1 maybe you should try to fit it like an IEM style and see if it improve something.


 
 Yeah, with foams tames the peak a little but the vocals are still very hollow and cold sounding. Possible fake?


----------



## music4mhell

ustinj said:


> makahl said:
> 
> 
> > Are you using it with foams? I've read in this thread the fit is important to get the right bass of RX-1 maybe you should try to fit it like an IEM style and see if it improve something.
> ...


 
 Which seller did you use ?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Yeah I meant ES10. And Edimun V3 is not in yet.


----------



## Makahl

ustinj said:


> Yeah, with foams tames the peak a little but the vocals are still very hollow and cold sounding. Possible fake?


 

 That's a bit awkward situation, cos a lot of people calling the best part of RX-1 are just the mids - including the OP of this thread -. However, I think the product is new, the shape is custom, the connector as well, hard to claim about fake models now.

 But you're not alone I've seen people who don't like RX-1 too. There is the option they aren't that good, unfortunately.


----------



## Tomasz2D

tayyab pirzada said:


> Yeah I meant ES10. And Edimun V3 is not in yet.


 
  
 Interesting. I've got my pair of AWEI ES10 also recently. What's your impressions?
  


phiely said:


> Link to purchase Seahf V1 320 ohm, please.


 
  
https://world.taobao.com/item/525608265905.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.3wfmoF#detail
  


bloodypenguin said:


> but I gave all my pairs away to for friends and family.


 
  
 So how many pairs did you have ?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

tomasz2d said:


> So how many pairs did you have ?


 
  
 I think, over the span of 2 years, I had about 10 pairs of the ES10.  All of which have been given away.  I think I might have to purchase another pair, just so I can hear them again. 
  
 --


----------



## Tomasz2D

bloodypenguin said:


> I think, over the span of 2 years, I had about 10 pairs of the ES10.  All of which have been given away.  I think I might have to purchase another pair, just so I can hear them again.


 
  
 At least they cost only about 4 USD now, dosn' t take a lot of space and you do not have to feed them.


----------



## golov17

makahl said:


> Are you using it with foams? I've read in this thread the fit is important to get the right bass of RX-1 maybe you should try to fit it like an IEM style and see if it improve something.


 intricate fit..


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

ES10:
 - very nice fit, very comfortable
- surprisingly good soundstage
- weak bass, recessed vocals, weak details


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

golov17 said:


> intricate fit..


 
 I got excited thinking these are Mojito. You need to hear them.


----------



## ustinj

music4mhell said:


> Which seller did you use ?


 
 Purchased from eBay, happened to see a local USA seller so I went for that -- seller is 123jachett, but mine was new and sealed.


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> I got excited thinking these a[COLOR=4B4F56]re Mojito. You need to hear them.[/COLOR]


soon, now on customs


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> First thing, to say NX1 is 'rated only up to 150ohm' in itself is a misunderstandaing of how spec works. To see how any *specific* load will work on amp, you need to put them into measurement. One particular 150ohm headphone (in general, including earphone) might work fine with NX1 while another 150ohm headphone might not - because impedance is only one of the spec of headphone - you also need to consider the sensitivity of the headphone as well as the power output of the amp reacting to the impedance / sensitivity / current draw of the load. You can NOT just say certain amp is rated for certain impedance while just ignoring all other aspects of the setup. The world doesn't work in such simple way. Many manufacturer will throw out simple spec and list one amp for certain impedance range not because it is the correct thing to do, but because it is the easiest way to make a complex issue seems understandable to less knowledgeable consumer, even though it is completely wrong.


 
 Ah I see I see. I never though so much about it before. Thank-you once again for the extremely informative reply. 
 Your knowledge base never fails to astonish me.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> intricate fit..


 
 Where did you get those rubber rings?


----------



## luedriver

audionewbi3 said:


> Where did you get those rubber rings?


 
 +1
  
 got my rx1's today, for a mid based earbud they do sound really bright, anything metallic sounding is a bit louder than the rest of the sounds, eg, bells mid-high tones,
  
 good thing is the sound-stage, I got fooled twice today, once with my back turned to the road I though it started to rain, heavily, 2nd when listening to dial-up modem sounds I thought one of my neighbors were using some sort of machine,
  
 I tried them with monk+ foams, seemed a bit more warmer, maybe,
  
 amping via stereo system gives the sound a bit more body than only from my iphone,
  
 they fit perfectly in my ear without foams, I tried the donuts and they pushed them more out of my ear than I am comfortable with, I think rubber rings will help with the lack of bass, hopefully, turning them upside down doessn't help with the bass or keeping them in my ear, I am pretty sure if the plastic ring on them was rubber instead it would seal better


----------



## golov17

it's earhoox from Exp Packet of Monk Plus with cut off "fins"


----------



## ezekiel77

golov17 said:


> it's earhoox from Exp Packet of Monk Plus with cut off "fins"


 
  
 Great idea! Gonna try that soon.


----------



## ustinj

Well guys, did a bit of comparing and such for the RX-1 and it's not really my taste. If anyone here was planning on purchasing the RX-1 within the USA and wants the 5-hour old pair, I can sell it to you for $15 or so. Shipping would be priority and take only 2 days, in comparison to multiple weeks from CN. Pretty much new: )


----------



## AudioNewbi3

kinetic758 said:


> Any of you Rose Mojito owners want to do me a favor?
> 
> If you run either the "Quality" or "Driver Matching" tests here:
> 
> ...


 
 Nope I just ran through all of the test save for the last 2 and experienced no vibration in either drivers.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> it's earhoox from Exp Packet of Monk Plus with cut off "fins"


 
 Wohoo! Thanks for the reply!


----------



## fairx

golov17 said:


> go to Topping NX-5 mini, I ordered too..


 
 nice.. will they drive 400ohms? I read the specs but I'm quite clueless TBH.. waiting for your impression
  
 In the meantime I just ask my brother if he can source the material and I order the PCB for *O2 diy amp*, and he said yes.. YES!!


----------



## springbay

tomasz2d said:


> But what are you looking for? Anything specific? You can just dig through this thread from the beginning and you will find a lot of suggestions that are worth checking.


 
  
 I'm OK. I feel pretty up to date with this tread up until about a month ago, when the posts started to explode. It's like a full time job to keep up with all the posts, lol.
  
 So, what am I looking for? Well something like the Snorlax of earbuds. You know you already have a pretty decent Dragonite, Vaporeon and Arcanine and should feel content. But then you are always looking for that elusive one you haven't seen or even less heard, that you think will add to the line-up with something new.
  
 Currently my favourite buds are the Boarseman MX98s and the VE Zen 2.0. The MX98s for being the most engaging, yet relaxed, buds that never gets fatiguing, and the Zen 2 for the being the full package.
  
 So I guess what I'm looking for is the person child of those two buds. One with the almost intoxicating sound of the the MX98s without their tendency of sometimes becoming slightly sibilant, paired with the full body warmth of the Zen2. That is my current Snorlax, and probably end game.
  
 Also, some day I'd like to try a really inefficient power hungry bud that requires me to use the Runabout 2.0 at more than 9 o'clock. So I'm very interested to read more on the findings of these 500 and 600 ohm buds.


----------



## kinetic758

audionewbi3 said:


> Nope I just ran through all of the test save for the last 2 and experienced no vibration in either drivers.




Thanks. Hopefully I'll be able to place an exchange (bought through Penon and have yet to hear a reply). It's been a love/hate relationship with these Mojitos.


----------



## Saoshyant

@BloodyPenguin I should still have my ES10 lying around.  I think I bought that one back right before I took a break from Head-Fi, back when the hype for the Baldoor was quite high.  I wish I had given my Hifiman ES100 more of a try back then as I just wasn't feeding it enough power to do it justice, and with something like the X3 or better it's far more enjoyable, although at this point I have several that surpass it now.  I know I have a few other earbuds that I tried back then that I don't really think about, too.  I should dig them out and see what I still have.


----------



## anticute

RX-1 waiting for me at the post office when I get home from work..


----------



## Tomasz2D

springbay said:


> So, what am I looking for? Well something like the *Snorlax *of earbuds. You know you already have a pretty decent *Dragonite*, *Vaporeon *and *Arcanine *and should feel content.


 
  
 First I read your post on my phone and I was like What is this? Some Norse gods? Names of medicaments? Unknown to me headphone brands? When I came home I googled it and OK - with Norse gods I was the closest.
  
 I have checked your profile list and you're pretty well equipped already. If I come up with some idea I will post it untill end of this week.
  
 By the way, how do you like Boarseman K25s?


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> First I read your post on my phone and I was like What is this? Some Norse gods? Names of medicaments? Unknown to me headphone brands? When I came home I googled it and OK - with Norse gods I was the closest.


 
  
 I guessed something from Harry Potter...


----------



## David Mitchell

golov17 said:


> Meizu ep21hd with RC 3 Buttons for Android, Remax 305m have too


 
  
 Thanks, @golov17. I haven't heard of Meizu in a while! I still have one of their MP3 players from back in the day.... Since these earbuds hadn't been mentioned before, I'm guessing there's some compromise compared to those that have been recommended already. Having the remote might be worth it to me anyway for convenience. Have you used both? If so, any comments on sound quality?


----------



## springbay

tomasz2d said:


> By the way, how do you like Boarseman K25s?


 
  
 I only listened to them for a couple of minutes and concluded that they were good for the price point. I mainly got them because of the L-shaped plug. Practical to use with the SanDisk Clip Sport.
  
@Danneq Stokkholmare, always trying to be funny.


----------



## golov17

david mitchell said:


> Thanks, @golov17
> . I haven't heard of Meizu in a while! I still have one of their MP3 players from back in the day.... Since these earbuds hadn't been mentioned before, I'm guessing there's some compromise compared to those that have been recommended already. Having the remote might be worth it to me anyway for convenience. Have you used both? If so, any comments on sound quality?


Just Meizu ep 21hd 128 Ohm


----------



## Danneq

springbay said:


> @Danneq
> Stokkholmare, always trying to be funny.




Hehe... I'm actually not at all up to date with what's popular at the moment. On the other hand, if you were to ask me to name 3 alien races from the Star Trek universe I could do it in my sleep...


----------



## Tomasz2D

tayyab pirzada said:


> ES10:
> - very nice fit, very comfortable
> - surprisingly good soundstage
> - weak bass, recessed vocals, weak details


 
  
 This 4 dollar earbud is inferior to 5 dollar Monk in every category and each time I put it on it is sort of repulsive, but... after 1-3 minutes brain burn-in it becomes quite enjoyable actually. It is raw, it is direct but is has some nice dynamics and because it is more focused around mids, guitar in Voodoo Child (Slight Return) sounds like it's got some additional power.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

tomasz2d said:


> This 4 dollar earbud is inferior to 5 dollar Monk in every category and each time I put it on it is sort of repulsive, but... after 1-3 minutes brain burn-in it becomes quite enjoyable actually. It is raw, it is direct but is has some nice dynamics and because it is more focused around mids, guitar in Voodoo Child (Slight Return) sounds like it's got some additional power.




It's meh. I'm giving mine away I think.


----------



## vapman

Lol. my gold RX-1 just got in from China. Can hardly tell they're a different color from the silver. unless the seller screwed up and sent me a silver one.
  
 But I still prefer monk plus and am still using the t-music often...


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> Lol. my gold RX-1 just got in from China. Can hardly tell they're a different color from the silver. unless the seller screwed up and sent me a silver one.
> 
> But I still prefer monk plus and am still using the t-music often...




I ordered gold too and mine look silver as hell lol


----------



## boblauer

danneq said:


> I guessed something from Harry Potter...


 
 Clue would be gotta catch them all! I don;t play but way too many people at work are.


----------



## Spider fan

tayyab pirzada said:


> I ordered gold too and mine look silver as hell lol


 
 My ordered gold looks silver too.  I thought they just sent the wrong color which isnt any worry to me.


----------



## kurtextrem

tayyab pirzada said:


> I ordered gold too and mine look silver as hell lol


 
 same here


----------



## David Mitchell

> Originally Posted by *David Mitchell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> So, based on the discussion to date, I currently have the Edifier H185P at the top of my list and the Remax RM-303 second. Any comments on sound quality between them for the user or the listener at the other end of the call?
> 
> Also, I know this introduces a completely different variable, but do any of these have remote-control buttons? (I have an Android phone.) I just realized last night that would be very handy.


 
  
 I found out today that the Edifiers have a single-button remote on the mic (according to their site). That should be sufficient for me. So I've ordered the H185P from Banggood (the cheaper sellers on AliExpress don't have the gray version, which I prefer). Thanks for the help, guys!


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

david mitchell said:


> I found out today that the Edifiers have a single-button remote on the mic (according to their site). That should be sufficient for me. So I've ordered the H185P from Banggood (the cheaper sellers on AliExpress don't have the gray version, which I prefer). Thanks for the help, guys!




Not a bad choice


----------



## vapman

spider fan said:


> My ordered gold looks silver too.  I thought they just sent the wrong color which isnt any worry to me.


 

 Looking at them next to each other you can tell easily which is silver and which is gold. It is just that by itself, the gold looks pretty dull, not a shiny gold like you'd expect.
  
 I have not been using the RX1 though, just monk plus and t-music when I want more recessed mids than the monk offers, and with the exception of the occasional Red De'Mun that's really all that's getting used. I feel like it's always the monk and then another bud to complement the monk to me. the gold RX1 will stay sealed up for now.


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> Lol. my gold RX-1 just got in from China. Can hardly tell they're a different color from the silver. unless the seller screwed up and sent me a silver one.
> 
> But I still prefer monk plus and am still using the t-music often...


 
  
 I ordered a supposedly black RX-1 but it looks gold!  Maybe the colors differences are subtle.
  
 I also prefer the Monk+ over these as well.


----------



## Spider fan

vapman said:


> Looking at them next to each other you can tell easily which is silver and which is gold. It is just that by itself, the gold looks pretty dull, not a shiny gold like you'd expect.
> 
> I have not been using the RX1 though, just monk plus and t-music when I want more recessed mids than the monk offers, and with the exception of the occasional Red De'Mun that's really all that's getting used. I feel like it's always the monk and then another bud to complement the monk to me. the gold RX1 will stay sealed up for now.


 
 Your review made me order the T-music.  I am looking forward to them since my origins are car stereo so I love me some bass.
  
 I am enjoying my RX1 for watching movies and tv shows.  Since they are smaller my ears dont get sore.  The mid focus of them is great for dialogue.   I find them very realistic sounding and the quick bass still creates some good dynamics.  Watching Black Sails and the water crashing and cannon balls smashing through the ships sound great.  Also, they are cheap enough that I wont feel bad if I fall asleep with them in and roll around.  I have tried some others like the earbells and they didnt sound realistic say when bullets fired or doors slammed.  They sounded too metallic or pitchy.  Ofcourse, the monk+ is great for tv watching and I expect the Tmusic with its extra bass may end up being the best of all of them for that.


----------



## petan970

spider fan said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > Looking at them next to each other you can tell easily which is silver and which is gold. It is just that by itself, the gold looks pretty dull, not a shiny gold like you'd expect.
> ...




I agree that Tmusic are great. They are my first earbuds and I like them so much.


----------



## Spider fan

petan970 said:


> I agree that Tmusic are great. They are my first earbuds and I like them so much.


 
 Awesome I have only heard good things and they are such a nice price.


----------



## vapman

spider fan said:


> Your review made me order the T-music.  I am looking forward to them since my origins are car stereo so I love me some bass.
> 
> I am enjoying my RX1 for watching movies and tv shows.  Since they are smaller my ears dont get sore.  The mid focus of them is great for dialogue.   I find them very realistic sounding and the quick bass still creates some good dynamics.  Watching Black Sails and the water crashing and cannon balls smashing through the ships sound great.  Also, they are cheap enough that I wont feel bad if I fall asleep with them in and roll around.  I have tried some others like the earbells and they didnt sound realistic say when bullets fired or doors slammed.  They sounded too metallic or pitchy.  Ofcourse, the monk+ is great for tv watching and I expect the Tmusic with its extra bass may end up being the best of all of them for that.


 

 It's off topic but I got really excited when you mentioned car audio. There is a crew of bassheads here (look up @Hawaiibadboy 's extreme  bass IEM and headphone threads) - the SZ2000, my favorite over ears, are a favorite of the SPL freak crowd - but anyway. I think you will like the T-Music. It is not that different than the monk, except it doesn't have that mid focus. Sometimes when switching from the T-Music back to the Monk Plus there was more mid bass impact with the monk. Some songs the T-Music reigned supreme on sub bass. They are both good to have. A bass lover who wants some earbuds would do well to spend $10 on the T-Musics.


----------



## Spider fan

vapman said:


> It's off topic but I got really excited when you mentioned car audio. There is a crew of bassheads here (look up @Hawaiibadboy 's extreme  bass IEM and headphone threads) - the SZ2000, my favorite over ears, are a favorite of the SPL freak crowd - but anyway. I think you will like the T-Music. It is not that different than the monk, except it doesn't have that mid focus. Sometimes when switching from the T-Music back to the Monk Plus there was more mid bass impact with the monk. Some songs the T-Music reigned supreme on sub bass. They are both good to have. A bass lover who wants some earbuds would do well to spend $10 on the T-Musics.


 
 I trust you ear and reviews so I am sure I will love the T-musics.   Wish I would of got the Sz2000 instead of my WS99.  Barely used them always sitting stationery and they fell apart.    But that OK I learned from the monk+ that I much more enjoy wearing earbuds than headphones or iems.


----------



## vapman

spider fan said:


> I trust you ear and reviews so I am sure I will love the T-musics.   Wish I would of got the Sz2000 instead of my WS99.  Barely used them always sitting stationery and they fell apart.    But that OK I learned from the monk+ that I much more enjoy wearing earbuds than headphones or iems.


 

 same here, earbuds are my #1 form factor. IEMs i can tolerate for a little while before the feeling of something in my ear drives me insane. Over ear headphones like the SZ2000 I normally hate the feeling of but the SZ2000 is just _so much bass_ and the bass is so good that I don't mind. The SZ2000 come out to play when I have to keep myself from getting more noise complaints filed and nothing will satisfy me until my skull is fully decimated with sub bass. The T Music and Monk still get almost all my listening time because I love earbuds.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> same here, earbuds are my #1 form factor. IEMs i can tolerate for a little while before the feeling of something in my ear drives me insane. Over ear headphones like the SZ2000 I normally hate the feeling of but the SZ2000 is just _so much bass_ and the bass is so good that I don't mind. The SZ2000 come out to play when I have to keep myself from getting more noise complaints filed and nothing will satisfy me until my skull is fully decimated with sub bass. The T Music and Monk still get almost all my listening time because I love earbuds.




You really need to try Ostry KC08. The sub-bass is incredible. And build quality is probably the best out of all my earbuds.


----------



## kinetic758

I have to say, Penon's customer service so far has been excellent. I'll be sending back my Mojitos for a replacement. They've communicated the issues to Rose and they've promised to test their product more closely before sending to Penon. Hopefully they sort out their quality and consistency issues. If they could only get that right then they would have a superior product in their hands.


----------



## haiku

The Seahf LD-3.0 400 Ohm is growing on me more and more atm. 
 So many recording are mixed with too much treble and are lacking with bass. Extreme examples are "Deep Purple in Rock" or "In-a-Gadda-Da-Vida" by Iron Butterfly, which for me are hardly listenable with other earbuds. But with the 3.0 400 Ohm it doesn´t matter what I´m listening to, each tune is pleasing my ears.


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> The Seahf LD-3.0 400 Ohm is growing on me more and more atm.
> So many recording are mixed with too much treble and are lacking with bass. Extreme examples are "Deep Purple in Rock" or "In-a-Gadda-Da-Vida" by Iron Butterfly, which for me are hardly listenable with other earbuds. But with the 3.0 400 Ohm it doesn´t matter what I´m listening to, each tune is pleasing my ears.


 
 Which other earbuds do you have other than Seahf for comparing ?


----------



## haiku

music4mhell said:


> Which other earbuds do you have other than Seahf for comparing ?


 

 Monk, Monk+, Hifiman ES100.


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Which other earbuds do you have other than Seahf for comparing ?
> ...


 
 Then it won't be proper comparison, Seahf is a high end earbud, you can compare to Ting, Cygnus, Zen etc.


----------



## haiku

music4mhell said:


> Then it won't be proper comparison, Seahf is a high end earbud, you can compare to Ting, Cygnus, Zen etc.


 
  

 Then do it.


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Then it won't be proper comparison, Seahf is a high end earbud, you can compare to Ting, Cygnus, Zen etc.
> ...


 
 I have only Darkhorse G400, but i am very much inclined to buy Seahf 320 Ohms version. Let see


----------



## Makahl

But in earbuds world: High-end =/= Expensive. You'll see a lot of people preferring Monk or RX-1 over Zen 2, and it is just an example...


----------



## music4mhell

makahl said:


> But in earbuds world: High-end =/= Expensive. You'll see a lot of people preferring Monk or RX-1 over Zen 2, and it is just an example...


 
 I was used to be like that before, but once i had all high earbuds and paired with good Dac+Amp like Chord Mojo, then i realized why these earbuds are so expensive.


----------



## luedriver

after burning the rx1's in with pink noise for a few hours and leaving them playing music for while over night, I thought to try the donuts again, since I saw an improvement with all my other earbuds, (except earpods, for obvious reasons)
  
 I tried the half moon but they seemed too bright still, normal donut with a small-ish hole in the middle seemed to tame the highs and give it a bit more body,
  
 of course this could just be just my bias to the dark-ish sound of my other earbuds (ty hi-z hp32, earpods, philips) that I am more sensitive to brighter earbuds like this,
  
 I have no complaint about the sound otherwise, everything sounds nice apart from more brighter recordings that seem to be louder than normal, to my ears, and have to turn the volume down, still sound better via stereo amp, than only with iphone, I don't think I will be using them outside, since outside noise seems to drown out the lower frequencies,


----------



## golov17

luedriver said:


> after burning the rx1's in with pink noise for a few hours and leaving them playing music for while over night, I thought to try the donuts again, since I saw an improvement with all my other earbuds, (except earpods, for obvious reasons)
> 
> I tried the half moon but they seemed too bright still, normal donut with a small-ish hole in the middle seemed to tame the highs and give it a bit more body,
> 
> ...


 I noticed that I preferred listening to RX-1 at low volume, very nice..


----------



## puccipaolo

Impressive!
 I had "only" Yuin PK1, PK2(two sample), PK3, Xiaomi1MORE, and some others..
 I have a question...I love pkSERIES... I started with PK2 ...and are today my favourite for running and occasional listening (I have ca. 40 headphones and 6 amplies...). So, I bought PK3...terrible and I give away to a friend...then I bought a PK1 (used). No so special, like PK2 ...no basses, no soundstage, only more detailed and analitical, but without any soul. Even amped with Little dot or lake people or Lehmannaudio.
 Have You the same impression? I thought to bay another sample...but I need a confirm from You.
 I would like a sort of impression of You immense collection ,,,will be useful  to everybody.
 Still mow I like my two in ear reference ...and following
 1^ Flare audio r2a
 2^ Senheiser IE800
 3^ Philiphs Fidelio S2
 4^ FIIO EX1
 ...
 Thank's a lot for all


----------



## puccipaolo

I gave away my YUin PK3, but I buy 2 PK2 ...buy PK2 ! Are a little more expensive but the same sound signature of Grado SR60....in a earbud!


----------



## golov17

puccipaolo said:


> I gave away my YUin PK3, but I buy 2 PK2 ...buy PK2 ! Are a little more expensive but the same sound signature of Grado SR60....in a earbud!


go to Shozy Cygnus  for soul


----------



## golov17

Interesting gradient..


----------



## goldenSHK

So after getting my Auglamour RX1's and listening to them the past few days I have to say I do not understand at all how ClieOS could call these "warm and rich" in any way. These are bass light/neutral-ish mid centric, very clear earbuds. They have excellent separation and sound natural, some of the best imaging I have heard at under $100 and are very good although a bit suspect how highly rated they are on Clie's list. They are definitely great earbuds for sure, that is no debate, but they aren't for everybody. They definitely have that "earbud bass" feel that is lean and neutral which the Monks/Zen do not have (the VEs are lush and sound full/powerful in bass).
  
 These also have some of the best build quality of any earbud at any price. It is simply amazing how great they feel to hold in your hand. I don't understand how they can be $20. What the Monks did for budget sound quality Auglamour did for build quality. The build and materials on these for a budget earbud are simply another league, not matched by anyone.


----------



## justvinh

goldenshk said:


> So after getting my Auglamour RX1's and listening to them the past few days I have to say I do not understand at all how ClieOS could call these "warm and rich" in any way. These are bass light/neutral-ish mid centric, very clear earbuds. They have excellent separation and sound natural, some of the best imaging I have heard at under $100 and are very good although a bit suspect how highly rated they are on Clie's list. They are definitely great earbuds for sure, that is no debate, but they aren't for everybody. They definitely have that "earbud bass" feel that is lean and neutral which the Monks/Zen do not have (the VEs are lush and sound full/powerful in bass).
> 
> These also have some of the best build quality of any earbud at any price. It is simply amazing how great they feel to hold in your hand. I don't understand how they can be $20. What the Monks did for budget sound quality Auglamour did for build quality. The build and materials on these for a budget earbud are simply another league, not matched by anyone.


 
 Interesting enough, my unit's left ear piece distorted right out of the box, and the rubber's smell is urghh... even tho the housing is actually quite nice.


----------



## 93EXCivic

What would be a good choice for some bass heavy earbuds $25 or under? 
  
 Seahf LD-3.0?


----------



## haiku

93excivic said:


> What would be a good choice for some bass heavy earbuds $25 or under?
> 
> Seahf LD-3.0?


 

  the 150 Ohm might be worth a try.


----------



## golov17

93excivic said:


> What would be a good choice for some bass heavy earbuds $25 or under?
> 
> Seahf LD-3.0?


LD3.0 150


----------



## slappypete

I have seen  quite a few comments saying the Seahf Smart 1.0 320 ohm with white cable is said to be similar to the Zen 1.0. Do any of you own both of these earbuds? and if so could you do a quick comparison between the two? Going through the thread and searching Google, I couldn't find any direct comparisons, just rumors about this Seahf bud. They certainly look identical to the Zen. I am curious if they sound the same, or if the sensitivity of the drivers at least seems similar. I currently have a Seahf v1 white cable version on its way to me, but won't have a zen to compare it to. I wanted to buy a ready made high impedance bud, along with some diy 300ohm drivers and parts. I didn't want to spend Zen prices so thought the Seahf would be a good start. I Don't expect the Seahf to sound identical to the Zen but can't say I'm not curious about it after reading the rumors. Any comparisons would be appreciated. Thanks guys.


----------



## haiku

slappypete said:


> I have seen  quite a few comments saying the Seahf Smart 1.0 320 ohm with white cable is said to be similar to the Zen 1.0. Do any of you own both of these earbuds? and if so could you do a quick comparison between the two? Going through the thread and searching Google, I couldn't find any direct comparisons, just rumors about this Seahf bud. They certainly look identical to the Zen. I am curious if they sound the same, or if the sensitivity of the drivers at least seems similar. I currently have a Seahf v1 white cable version on its way to me, but won't have a zen to compare it to. I wanted to buy a ready made high impedance bud, along with some diy 300ohm drivers and parts. I didn't want to spend Zen prices so thought the Seahf would be a good start. I Don't expect the Seahf to sound identical to the Zen but can't say I'm not curious about it after reading the rumors. Any comparisons would be appreciated. Thanks guys.


 

 Knowing the VE sound signature, I don´t think they sound similar. The V1 is no bass monster, it´s more a brighter sounding earbud, at least if I compare it to the rest of my Seahf . From what I´ve read about the Zen 1, I would say the most similar could be the 3.0 320 Ohm.


----------



## golov17

haiku said:


> Knowing the VE sound signature, I don´t think they sound similar. The V1 is no bass monster, it´s more a brighter sounding earbud, at least if I compare it to the rest of my Seahf . From what I´ve read about the Zen 1, I would say the most similar could be the 3.0 320 Ohm.


Nope.. TY Hi-Z cloned Zen1.0


----------



## haiku

golov17 said:


> Nope.. TY Hi-Z cloned Zen1.0


 

 Just the looks, or even the sound signature, too?


----------



## haiku

Btw, Golov, do you know if AK Daps are able to drive high impedance earbuds sufficiently? I´m thinking of ordering the AK 300.


----------



## golov17

haiku said:


> Just the looks, or even the sound signature, too?


 I do not have them, but to me wrote guy from Philippines... compared them and said - was very close in sound


----------



## golov17

haiku said:


> Btw, Golov, do you know if AK Daps are able to drive high impedance earbuds sufficiently? I´m thinking of ordering the AK 300.


No idea, sorry..


----------



## haiku

golov17 said:


> No idea, sorry..


 
  

 Thanks anyway.


----------



## slappypete

Thanks guys. Now I'm tempted to order a pair of the Ty Hi-Z lol.


----------



## golov17

slappypete said:


> Thanks guys. Now I'm tempted to order a pair of the Ty Hi-Z lol.


i ordered HP400S, for compare with LD3.0 400, LOL


----------



## slappypete

golov17 said:


> i ordered HP400S, for compare with LD3.0 400, LOL


 
 haha its hard to not buy them all when there so cheap compared to full size headphones. I just ordered the ty hi-z


----------



## golov17

Right now from ELI


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

haiku said:


> Btw, Golov, do you know if AK Daps are able to drive high impedance earbuds sufficiently? I´m thinking of ordering the AK 300.


 
 AK Daps should be fine. I use AK Jr.


----------



## haiku

tayyab pirzada said:


> AK Daps should be fine. I use AK Jr.


 

 But you´re using it with the Cayin C5, don´t you Tayyab? Have you ever tested with just the AK alone?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

haiku said:


> But you´re using it with the Cayin C5, don´t you Tayyab? Have you ever tested with just the AK alone?


 
 I don't use Cayin C5 much and I think I'm going to sell it. I use mostly AK Jr by itself. It has been fine so far but I haven't tried anything high impedence yet.


----------



## haiku

tayyab pirzada said:


> I don't use Cayin C5 much and I think I'm going to sell it. I use mostly AK Jr by itself. It has been fine so far but I haven't tried anything high impedence yet.


 

 If it works with your Zen 2.0, it should be fine here, too.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

haiku said:


> If it works with your Zen 2.0, it should be fine here, too.


 
 im still waiting for zen 2 to come in the mail


----------



## luedriver

golov17 said:


> Right now from ELI


 
 is that a fiio amp? is it enough to power 400ohm?


----------



## 93EXCivic

haiku said:


> the 150 Ohm might be worth a try.


 
  
  


golov17 said:


> LD3.0 150


 

 Thanks. I'll grab a pair soon.


----------



## golov17

2016 New Seahf 32 ohm
http://s.aliexpress.com/fYZZNbyM


----------



## luedriver

golov17 said:


> Right now from ELI


 
 also are these older models? I thought ty h-z had twisted wires, these look like seahf


----------



## haiku

luedriver said:


> also are these older models? I thought ty h-z had twisted wires, these look like seahf


 

 Seahf has twisted wires too, bro.


----------



## golov17

luedriver said:


> also are these older models? I thought ty h-z had twisted wires, these look like seahf


 http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/8355#post_12785573


----------



## kvad

uote: 





golov17 said:


> 2016 New Seahf 32 ohm
> http://s.aliexpress.com/fYZZNbyM


 
  
 You can also get it 50% off if you quote from his Twitter feed: https://twitter.com/hckexin/status/764123827676647424
 Asked if "new" meant the LD 4.0, but didn't get a reply on that.


----------



## haiku

golov17 said:


> 2016 New Seahf 32 ohm
> http://s.aliexpress.com/fYZZNbyM


 

 "confirm and pay"...."click".


----------



## luedriver

haiku said:


> Seahf has twisted wires too, bro.


 
  


golov17 said:


> 2016 New Seahf 32 ohm
> http://s.aliexpress.com/fYZZNbyM


 
  


golov17 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/8355#post_12785573


 
 and penon sells ty that look like this
  
 just saying.... or asking...
  
 what I am trying to say or ask, is the pic with the dap and amp have cables similar to seahf, shown above, which I ask if they are an older model since the ones on sale on penonaudio have twisted cables...
  
 didn't want it to drag on like this, but feeling a bit sleep deprived


----------



## golov17

150 vs 400, different models from TY


----------



## damson

Does seahf earbuds perform better than VE Monks?


----------



## golov17

Dif sound sig, it depends on personal preference


----------



## David Mitchell

david mitchell said:


> I found out today that the Edifiers have a single-button remote on the mic (according to their site). That should be sufficient for me. So I've ordered the H185P from Banggood (the cheaper sellers on AliExpress don't have the gray version, which I prefer). Thanks for the help, guys!


 
  
 And to follow that up, today I ordered a Monk Plus.


----------



## Tomasz2D

93excivic said:


> What would be a good choice for some bass heavy earbuds $25 or under?
> 
> Seahf LD-3.0?


 
  
 For 25 USD you could get Dark Horse Bass but you would have to order it from TaoBao. It is for about 15 USD. Plus other expenses I think you can make it for about 25 USD.


----------



## ustinj

Anyone willing to trade their Monk+ for Auglamour RX-1?


----------



## ld100

Enjoying my Snozys...


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

ld100 said:


> Enjoying my Snozys...


 
 great mids and vocals


----------



## kinetic758

david mitchell said:


> And to follow that up, today I ordered a Monk Plus.


 
  
 I sent my Mojitos back to Hong Kong and have since went back to the Monk Plus for a bit.  Enjoying them more and more.


----------



## vapman

kinetic758 said:


> I sent my Mojitos back to Hong Kong and have since went back to the Monk Plus for a bit.  Enjoying them more and more.


 

 i always find the same going from anything really nice back to the Monk/Monk Plus. that is why they are so good, the tonal balance is so perfectly natural. No tricks or amp/EQ necessities for them to sound amazing.


----------



## vapman

93excivic said:


> What would be a good choice for some bass heavy earbuds $25 or under?
> 
> Seahf LD-3.0?


 

 i have to hear the Seahf 150 still, i  have never heard it in my life.
  
 The T-Music doesn't really have more bass  than the Monk, but it can take tons of bass EQ and then you can get a powerful bass sound with it.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

So yeah,
 I really enjoy the MRz Tomahwak and wonder if their someting even better in the sub 100$ price range that have a good metal construction too...
 I'm searching for more round present bass, less shrilling mids and even bigger and clearer soundstage (if possible).
  
 Any suggestions?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

nymphonomaniac said:


> So yeah,
> I really enjoy the MRz Tomahwak and wonder if their someting even better in the sub 100$ price range that have a good metal construction too...
> I'm searching for more round present bass, less shrilling mids and even bigger and clearer soundstage (if possible).
> 
> Any suggestions?


 
rose mojito


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

tayyab pirzada said:


> rose mojito


 
 nvm read sub 100. I'd get the Ting then.


----------



## rggz

Today I've found* this* old thread about some Yuin PK2 mod with tape. It's really cool to see these changes in acoustic, and different ways to tunings earbuds (similar to foams). I think this mod with Cygnus works really well and are very easy/cheap to do.
  
 Atm, I'm testing two methods: 

  

 1) Just an electric (or masking) tape to blocking just one hole on both sides and with a needle making series of some small holes. Overall the changes on SQ isn't day/night, but there are some differences like sounds become a bit thicker and soundstage a little less wide. Sounds excellent with metal, vocals which are a feature of Cygnus improve a bit to my ears too.

 2) The original mod. You'll find all details and impressions more depth in the first link, but sounds similar to the first method with less impact in soundstage and more natural timbre, if you're looking for Cygnus with less peak on treble but with more extension (focus on details), maybe it'll be a good mod for you. 

 Well, just initial impressions but if someone will test these "mods" please share your impressions too!


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> i always find the same going from anything really nice back to the Monk/Monk Plus. that is why they are so good, the tonal balance is so perfectly natural. No tricks or amp/EQ necessities for them to sound amazing.




Indeed. I'm still on the fence when it comes to the RX-1's. I know many admire the build quality, but to me it still feels cheap. Reminds me of some of the products you buy where they artificially add weight to the product to make it feel more expensive than it really is.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Just a heads up. The housings on my T-Music Earbuds had the L & R markings backwards.

I noticed this when I was watching a movie with them. I confirmed the mistake with http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php

So after a few beers, I grabbed my wife's nail polish and went to work. I also did not wait until they dried all the way and they got marked up a bit.

But here is how they turned out.


Low( quality cell phone picture



--


----------



## emptymt

Guys, how much better is the zen 2.0 over monk plus?
  
 The monk plus(I have the masdrop red edition) is so good already, so I want to know it its worth the upgrade cost.


----------



## Tomasz2D

bloodypenguin said:


> Just a heads up. The housings on my T-Music Earbuds had the L & R markings backwards.


 
 What have you done ?! Now you have a pair of Boarseman MX98s and another problem that red earbud will play faster than the blue one.
  
 My pair on Music-T also has this problem unfortunately.
  
 EDIT: usually I use this Android app to test stereo channels https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.leftrightstereo.nejc.leftrightstereo


----------



## luedriver

today, I A/B the monk+ and the ty hi-z hp32 and found that the difference between them is like coke and pepsi, although I tried them with and without donut foams, the hp32 seem to sound better with donut foams like a half moon, but not the monk+, which I seem to like better without any foams, without donut foams the difference is less obvious, and both with foams way more obvious, (although I think donut foams suit the monk+, imho), just for fun I A/B the monk and the tdk eb90 and found the tdk lacking, I could tell even without comparing, but the details that get lost, is very apparent when using something like the monk+
  
 on another note, the she3200, are very very bassy, which covers most of the sound, I tried using "late night" setting on my iphone, and it seemed to tone it down and make it a bit more balanced, but I also found them bit more loud than any other earbuds, (probably because of the shape that directs the sound in the ear canal), they are very good outside and only on 1 occasion on a busy street did I feel the need to adjust the volume to 5/16 from 4/16


----------



## Blueshound24

Ok, I have decided to try the SHOZY Cygnus, and on Amazon USA there are two sellers SHENZHENAUDIO and BETERAN for $99 and $85. Has anyone had any experience with those two sellers good or bad? Are there any fakes of the Shozy Cygnus out there?


----------



## haiku

After more time with the Seahf LD-3.0 400 Ohm....
  
 Everytime I put on the earbuds, it´s like taking a nice hot bath. The warm, bassy sound signature hugs you and the slightly recessed treble cuts any peaks that might appear. And where some of my other earbuds tend to become a little grainy sounding, the LD-3.0 sounds more polished.
 Sure, the bloomy sub-bass takes a lot of power to control, but with the right amping this can very well be an endgame earbud for some imo. It sounds soooo cozy.....


----------



## haiku

blueshound24 said:


> Ok, I have decided to try the SHOZY Cygnus, and on Amazon USA there are two sellers SHENZHENAUDIO and BETERAN for $99 and $85. Has anyone had any experience with those two sellers good or bad? Are there any fakes of the Shozy Cygnus out there?


 

 Shenzhenaudio is cool imo.


----------



## kurtextrem

haiku said:


> After more time with the Seahf LD-3.0 400 Ohm....
> 
> Everytime I put on the earbuds, it´s like taking a nice hot bath. The warm, bassy sound signature hugs you and the slightly recessed treble cuts any peaks that might appear. And where some of my other earbuds tend to become a little grainy sounding, the LD-3.0 sounds more polished.
> Sure, the bloomy sub-bass takes a lot of power to control, but with the right amping this can very well be an endgame earbud for some imo. It sounds soooo cozy.....


 
 hmm.... you make me buy the 3.0 400 Ohm LOL
 but 3.0 320 is also on my list. What to do now?


----------



## haiku

kurtextrem said:


> hmm.... you make me buy the 3.0 400 Ohm LOL
> but 3.0 320 is also on my list. What to do now?


 

 I can´t tell you, but since I have the Seahf earbuds, I´ve become extremely addicted to the bass performance of those two earbuds.
 I´d say, if you like to try more bass (with really deep sub-bass), and you have the amp for it, give the 3.0 400 Ohm a shot.
 If you want more dynamics and a more powerful bass, go for the 320 Ohm. Or do like I did, order both.
 When I look back over the week, I listened to the V1 320 Ohm the most, then 3.0 400 Ohm, then 3.0 320 Ohm. Maybe it helps.....


----------



## golov17

https://mobile.twitter.com/hckexin/status/764123827676647424
Special price


----------



## luedriver

golov17 said:


> https://mobile.twitter.com/hckexin/status/764123827676647424
> Special price


 
 50% off for twitter followers, I wonder how that works, follow them and say that you are following them when you order the earbuds and wait for the price to be reduced?
  
 20% off without twitter
  
 those silver plated cables seem tempting, I wonder if they different enough from the ty hi-z hp32 to justify buying them?


----------



## golov17

Up, wait, try


----------



## fairx

These days I rarely get to listen to earbud coz of busy works. But today I put back RX -1 and notice how good it sound with good recordings. I'm listening to many chesky binaural and oh boy the low and high presence. Reminds me of hifiman planar that I audition recently.


----------



## goldenSHK

kinetic758 said:


> Indeed. I'm still on the fence when it comes to the RX-1's. I know many admire the build quality, but to me it still feels cheap. Reminds me of some of the products you buy where they artificially add weight to the product to make it feel more expensive than it really is.


 

 They definitely have the best build quality I have seen in any earbud under $100. I think that is the standard for build quality for budget earbuds now. Not only do they not feel cheap/fake, but mine have held up very well.
  
  
 I can't really say the same about the sound quality though which is a mixed bag. It's definitely a bass light earbud.


----------



## Tomasz2D

springbay said:


> Did I miss any relevant ones that I don't already have (what I have is listed in my profile) that can be bought on AE?


 
  


springbay said:


> Currently my favourite buds are the Boarseman MX98s and the VE Zen 2.0. The MX98s for being the most engaging, yet relaxed, buds that never gets fatiguing, and the Zen 2 for the being the full package.


 
  
 OK, so back to your post. I can't help you with MX98s/Zen 2.0 himera nor with ultimate earbud. This is more about if your already very good earbuds list is missing something. Now the question is if you would like what I like and from your list I like Zen 2.0, MX98s, Cygnus, Ting and Monks but I am not really into Tomahawk. And what I am looking for in earbuds is musicality and certain harmony (for my taste).
 So this is what you don't have yet but what I like from my profile list and let's say I concider these as the safest bet. Of course I like more than these but I do not want to list controvential or sort of special ability earbuds.
  
 Astrotec Lyra6
 Black Onyx Earbud
 Blue Ever Blue 328R
 DaiK DK-Jin Wooden Earbuds
 ERQU EQ100
 Ostry KC08 (or newer KC08T)
 Pioneer SE-CE521
 Sennheiser MX 985
  
 If you want to take the risk just get the cheapest pair from above list and if you like what you hear go for another one.
 For the cheapest (but may be the biggest surprise) for the start would be Black Onyx for about 30 USD shipped and can be ordered here https://www.facebook.com/earbudsthailand/ (just ask for PayPal invoice). Then the next one would be Pioneer (eBay) and 328R (can be ordered here http://www.blueeverblue.com/contacts.html - you can ask for Head-Fi rebate and PayPal invoice).
  
 So good luck with catching Snorlax!


----------



## vapman

kinetic758 said:


> Indeed. I'm still on the fence when it comes to the RX-1's. I know many admire the build quality, but to me it still feels cheap. Reminds me of some of the products you buy where they artificially add weight to the product to make it feel more expensive than it really is.


 

 I am not as much on the fence, If I want a Cygnus like sound (not often) I go for them but realize they're still very different from the Cygnus. The thing is i'm usually not after that specific sound. I don't really disagree with where Clieos ranked it against other earbuds, it's just not my favorite for daily use.


----------



## vapman

springbay said:


> Man it's difficult to keep up with all the postings of the various buds. I've made a couple of orders (based on the latest buzz in this tread) and some that I was just too curious not to try. These are incoming:
> 
> AUGLAMOUR RX-1
> FAAEAL 64ohm
> ...


 

 I'm excited to hear what you thin of the TY 150ohm. Thats the one I am most curious about from all your grabbed, with the FAAEAL 300 being the next most intersting
  
 Well I went through your page and didn't see a whole lot that was missing from the "cool trendy buds"  as aside from the RX-1 it's really been trying to figure out all the different Seahf/TY rebrandings of stuff and what is actually new and what isn't....


----------



## jrazmar

haiku said:


> I can´t tell you, but since I have the Seahf earbuds, I´ve become extremely addicted to the bass performance of those two earbuds.
> I´d say, if you like to try more bass (with really deep sub-bass), and you have the amp for it, give the 3.0 400 Ohm a shot.
> If you want more dynamics and a more powerful bass, go for the 320 Ohm. Or do like I did, order both.
> When I look back over the week, I listened to the V1 320 Ohm the most, then 3.0 400 Ohm, then 3.0 320 Ohm. Maybe it helps.....


 
  
 so the 320 V1 is not the 320 3.0??? where to order the 320 V1? any Aliexpress link will help.


----------



## haiku

jrazmar said:


> so the 320 V1 is not the 320 3.0??? where to order the 320 V1? any Aliexpress link will help.


 

 V1 available only on taobao.


----------



## kvad

luedriver said:


> 50% off for twitter followers, I wonder how that works, follow them and say that you are following them when you order the earbuds and wait for the price to be reduced?
> 
> 20% off without twitter
> 
> those silver plated cables seem tempting, I wonder if they different enough from the ty hi-z hp32 to justify buying them?


 

 ​Correct - you just a message them with order your order on Aliexpress after you have added them to buy, but before you have paid. They usually adjust pretty quickly. The Head-fi discount are in my experience variable, sometimes you get a discount, other times they throw in some freebies.


----------



## Thomas De Brito

tayyab pirzada said:


> Honestly Mojito for cold and KC08t for warm is all you need in my opinion for buds. I still have to hear Zen 2 though. And the best vocals in any bud I've heard is Shozy Cygnus. They are the most detailed and rich, forward vocals with intimate soundstage.


 
 Offtopic, I saw that you ordered the edimun v3 3 weeks ago, how much was shipping? it's been awhile, I was thinking you might get faster shipping 

 Thanks


----------



## vapman

thomas de brito said:


> Offtopic, I saw that you ordered the edimun v3 3 weeks ago, how much was shipping? it's been awhile, I was thinking you might get faster shipping
> 
> Thanks


 
 when i bought my Red De'Mun + bMac + iPod LOD i paid EMS shipping costs, however the option was there for slow economy shipping as well. this time i did not pay the extra for EMS, either...


----------



## Thomas De Brito

vapman said:


> when i bought my Red De'Mun + bMac + iPod LOD i paid EMS shipping costs, however the option was there for slow economy shipping as well. this time i did not pay the extra for EMS, either...


 
 How much will economy shipping cost? I saw earlier a couple of weeks ago, that it was more than 20 dollars for shipping, I might ask them for the economy shipping. I can wait


----------



## vapman

thomas de brito said:


> How much will economy shipping cost? I saw earlier a couple of weeks ago, that it was more than 20 dollars for shipping, I might ask them for the economy shipping. I can wait


 

 ya, it was about $30 for my EMS shipping, but don't forget, i bought a headphone amp too... that weighs more than the earbuds for sure 
  
 economy shipping was only about $4, or something like $6-7 with registered & tracking, i went for registered+tracking but not EMS this time


----------



## Thomas De Brito

sorry for all the question, and how long did it take with the registered shipping? I might ask for that


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

tayyab pirzada said:


> nvm read sub 100. I'd get the Ting then.


 

 Hehe, was thinking Exactly about this one...quite logical...and fanatical


----------



## vapman

thomas de brito said:


> sorry for all the question, and how long did it take with the registered shipping? I might ask for that


 

 well, i placed my order late (only last week) and have the tracking number, says it's been picked up, but sholdn't be here until close to the end of the months i'm guessing...


----------



## luedriver

I pulled the trigger on the seahf's 32ohm, sent them a message and they replied almost immediately, less than 10 aud


----------



## Blueshound24

rggz said:


> blueshound24 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for your thoughts on that. I have never dabbeled with ear buds but would like some for the times I have to hear what's going on around me.
> ...


 
  
 Well I guess expensive gear has not detered me from getting good sound so I have raised my limit to whatever it takes. I have had a lot of headphones and I keep returning to the HD650, LCD 2.2, GR07 BE, UE TF10 and W4. So, not saying that you have to buy the most expensive to be satisfied, but I am willing to up my ante, what would you all suggest?
 TIA


----------



## vapman

blueshound24 said:


> Well I guess expensive gear has not detered me from getting good sound so I have raised my limit to whatever it takes. I have had a lot of headphones and I keep returning to the HD650, LCD 2.2, GR07 BE, UE TF10 and W4. So, not saying that you have to buy the most expensive to be satisfied, but I am willing to up my ante, what would you all suggest?
> TIA


 

 Get a Monk Plus and a Zen 2 at the same time! If the Zen 2 isn't worth the $ to you, the Monk Plus will be, and you'd at least know where to go earbud-wise from there based on what you do and don't like about both


----------



## luedriver

vapman said:


> Get a Monk Plus and a Zen 2 at the same time! If the Zen 2 isn't worth the $ to you, the Monk Plus will be, and you'd at least know where to go earbud-wise from there based on what you do and don't like about both


 
 no need you get 2 pair of monk plus with the zen 2
  
 "the Zen 2.0 + carrying Case + Monk Expansion Pack + Monk Plus x2 + Monk (32ohms)"


blueshound24 said:


>


----------



## vapman

luedriver said:


> no need you get 2 pair of monk plus with the zen 2
> 
> "the Zen 2.0 + carrying Case + Monk Expansion Pack + Monk Plus x2 + Monk (32ohms)"


 
 I thought you only get one bonus Monk! Then yes, just get the Zen 2 and you'll get the Monks anyway


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> I thought you only get one bonus Monk! Then yes, just get the Zen 2 and you'll get the Monks anyway




Whoa. I didn't realize you got all that stuff when you buy the Zen. I might need to get it now.


----------



## kinetic758

blueshound24 said:


> Ok, I have decided to try the SHOZY Cygnus, and on Amazon USA there are two sellers SHENZHENAUDIO and BETERAN for $99 and $85. Has anyone had any experience with those two sellers good or bad? Are there any fakes of the Shozy Cygnus out there?




Have you looked at Penon? I've always received my packages quickly from them. I still have an order from Shenzhen that hasn't arrived. Strangely, it was first routed to Germany. With Penon, my packages come straight to LAX.


----------



## puccipaolo

You can beleve or not, but just Yesterday without reading Your post I tried to enfatizing the Yuin PK1 bass with some tape. The result is not so tremendous. It's better with something that push the earbuds into the ear....


----------



## puccipaolo

You can also no belive, but just jesterday I tried to improve my Yuin PK1 without having read your post.
 The same tecnik ...but is also better with something that push inside the ear..


----------



## puccipaolo

You can also no belive, but just jesterday I tried to improve my Yuin PK1 without having read your post.
 The same tecnik ...but is also better with something that push inside the ear..


----------



## ld100

Oh my so many choices for not that much money... Can't decide between getting any of them or just pull the trigger on the Mojito... Anyone can steer me in a right direction... Either way...


----------



## dearyon

haiku said:


> I can´t tell you, but since I have the Seahf earbuds, I´ve become extremely addicted to the bass performance of those two earbuds.
> I´d say, if you like to try more bass (with really deep sub-bass), and you have the amp for it, give the 3.0 400 Ohm a shot.
> If you want more dynamics and a more powerful bass, go for the 320 Ohm. Or do like I did, order both.
> When I look back over the week, I listened to the V1 320 Ohm the most, then 3.0 400 Ohm, then 3.0 320 Ohm. Maybe it helps.....


 
 So out of all Seahf earbuds you have the LD 3.0 400 Ohm have the most non-fatiguing sound signature? and if I may ask, what source/amp are you using?


----------



## ld100

golov17 said:


> 2016 New Seahf 32 ohm
> http://s.aliexpress.com/fYZZNbyM


 
  
  
 How are these? Worth 12 bucks and three weeks of waiting?
  
 or
  
 These
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIFI-In-ear-Earphone-64-Ohm-DIY-Heavy-Bass-Sound-Quality-Music-Earphones-HIFI-Earbuds-DJ/32695785448.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.274.WVlJNF
  
 ??


----------



## vapman

Seahf is so hard to keep up with! feels like  a new version and impedance every week....
  
 I have never like a farerl enough to keep one, or even remember how to spell the company's name properly. I would like to at least know how that new 64 ohm looks. The cable looks nice & the shell looks old school.


----------



## golov17

ld100 said:


> How are these? Worth 12 bucks and three weeks of waiting?
> 
> or
> 
> ...


 Everyone decides himself in this hobby..


----------



## ld100

golov17 said:


> Everyone decides himself in this hobby..


 
  
 Not true at all my friend. Almost any purchase here is heavily influenced by opinions of others...


----------



## golov17

ld100 said:


> Not true at all my friend. Almost any purchase here is heavily influenced by opinions of others...


 not for hard-core fans with the experience, lol


----------



## kinetic758

ld100 said:


> Not true at all my friend. Almost any purchase here is heavily influenced by opinions of others...




Agreed. I bought the RX-1 based on the hype train that was moving through here. I might give them to my wife.


----------



## audio123

ld100 said:


> Not true at all my friend. Almost any purchase here is heavily influenced by opinions of others...


 

 it is up to u to open your wallet.


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> it is up to u to open your wallet.


----------



## kinetic758

audio123 said:


> it is up to u to open your wallet.




Of course, no one is holding a gun to our heads and telling us to click the "buy" button. But, you can't discredit the online review sites with their top 10 lists, the publications that tout the best dac to ever be made etc. and how that affects our reason and judgment... After all, aren't we all searching for the absolute sound, as it relates to us? Our hobby is rooted in irrationalism, no?


----------



## mochill

When you find your sound signature, then you'll know what direction to go too


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


>


 

 I'm 100% on Golov's side here


----------



## ld100

vapman said:


> I'm 100% on Golov's side here


 
  
 I have a strong feeling that at least half of the people reading this thread made purchases based just on Golov's posts.


----------



## golov17

mochill said:


> When you find your sound signature, then you'll know what direction to go too


 at the beginning... but no has limits curiosity


----------



## golov17

ld100 said:


> I have a strong feeling that at least half of the people reading this thread made purchases based just on Golov's posts.


This ClieOS thread..


----------



## haiku

dearyon said:


> So out of all Seahf earbuds you have the LD 3.0 400 Ohm have the most non-fatiguing sound signature? and if I may ask, what source/amp are you using?


 

 Fiio X7+AM1+AM2


----------



## vapman

ld100 said:


> I have a strong feeling that at least half of the people reading this thread made purchases based just on Golov's posts.


 

 Then at least him and I primarily buy stuff because it looks interesting to us and not much any other reason 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 If there is a lot of hype about something i will try it if the sound signature sounds appealing to me, but usually more of curiosity than expecting to like it, if that makes sense.


----------



## golov17

btw, price drop  

DIY Handmade PHEB01 24ohm Hi-Fi DDM Dual Diaphragm Matrix Dynamic Audiophile Earphone Earbuds
 http://s.aliexpress.com/ErqqEzyi


----------



## kinetic758

I think the point is that we can't possibly hear or know about all the earbud options popping up. I, personally, need to rely on the experience of others to find direction. Am I ever upset at someone for recommending something I end up not liking? Of course not... they may very well be the same person who recommended something I completely love! In any case, this thread has been extremely helpful for both my wise and not so wise purchases.


----------



## ld100

golov17 said:


> This ClieOS thread..


 
  
  
 Yes. The other half based on his reviews...


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Awei ES10 has done me good for movie watching. But the housing is a bit too large for my ears.


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> Awei ES10 has done me good for movie watching. But the housing is a bit too large for my ears.


try AWEI ES12


----------



## luedriver

talking about movies, does anyone watch blu-ray's with earbuds?
  
 mostly use my shp9500's but I have used even earpods to watch movies with, something tells me that seahf, might be a good bet for watching movies, since someone has said that they create an atmosphere when listening to jazz, if I remember correctly,
  
 I wonder if the seahf smart 1.0 (that as others mentioned that needs quality recordings to shine) would be good for blu-ray movies?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I watch blurays with my Awei's. But I guess I should use a DAC to make it sound better.


----------



## haiku

luedriver said:


> talking about movies, does anyone watch blu-ray's with earbuds?
> 
> mostly use my shp9500's but I have used even earpods to watch movies with, something tells me that seahf, might be a good bet for watching movies, since someone has said that they create an atmosphere when listening to jazz, if I remember correctly,
> 
> I wonder if the seahf smart 1.0 (that as others mentioned that needs quality recordings to shine) would be good for blu-ray movies?


 

 Don´t think so. LD-3.0 or 4.0 400 Ohm would be my choice.


----------



## vapman

What sets the seahf smart different from the other ones? I had seen that posted before and didn't realize it was a model name somehow.


----------



## Spider fan

tayyab pirzada said:


> Awei ES10 has done me good for movie watching. But the housing is a bit too large for my ears.


 

 Thats why I like the RX1 for movies and tv shows since it is has smaller housing.   Was using monk+ but hurts my ears after too many hours.  I also like it easy to tell Left and Right by feel on them when watching in the dark since they are asymmetrical.


----------



## Fabi

luedriver said:


> 50% off for twitter followers, I wonder how that works, follow them and say that you are following them when you order the earbuds and wait for the price to be reduced?
> 
> 20% off without twitter
> 
> those silver plated cables seem tempting, I wonder if they different enough from the ty hi-z hp32 to justify buying them?


 Bought , good price hehehe


----------



## jrazmar

Edimun V3 just arrived and it has been burning-in since last night non-stop. Let's see how it fares with my Cygnus and/or Zen 2.0.


----------



## Tomasz2D

ld100 said:


> Not true at all my friend. Almost any purchase here is heavily influenced by opinions of others...


 
  
 That's why this is so importatnt to find your preferable sound signature twin here. At least you have big choice:
  
 vapman - basshead
 AudioNewbi3 - hightshead
 golov17 - darker/warmer sound signature lover and female vocals lover
 Tayyab Pirzada - soundstage and details lover
 Danneq - wider and airy soundstage lover
 BloodyPenguin - budget earbuds lover but recently shifting into more pricey territory, also likes rather neutral sound signature
  
 ... and this is to mention just a few members.
  
 As for ClieOS and his list I suspect that this is classical music that may have strong impact on how he rates earbuds.


----------



## dearyon

tomasz2d said:


> That's why this is so importatnt to find your preferable sound signature twin here. At least you have big choice:
> 
> vapman - basshead
> AudioNewbi3 - hightshead
> ...


 
 This is actually very informative to someone who doesn't really keeping up with this thread and want to ask to a specific sound sig./person 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I'm with sir Golov here, warmish, dark and female vocal lover 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 because my playlist contain a lot of Japanese female singer


----------



## Saoshyant

Damn, I need to chime in more so I can be on that list. Then again, I'm kind of all over the map.


----------



## kvad

luedriver said:


> talking about movies, does anyone watch blu-ray's with earbuds?
> 
> mostly use my shp9500's but I have used even earpods to watch movies with, something tells me that seahf, might be a good bet for watching movies, since someone has said that they create an atmosphere when listening to jazz, if I remember correctly,
> 
> I wonder if the seahf smart 1.0 (that as others mentioned that needs quality recordings to shine) would be good for blu-ray movies?


 

 ​I wasn't that fond of the SeaHF LD 3.0 / 400 ohm for listening to music (preferring something with better clarity), but recently I watched Stranger Things and played through Red Dead Redemption with them and had a blast with both.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tomasz2d said:


> That's why this is so importatnt to find your preferable sound signature twin here. At least you have big choice:
> 
> vapman - basshead
> AudioNewbi3 - hightshead
> ...


 
 Wow! I am terribly honored that  some of you gentleman actually think that I have the "stuff" or "vocab" to describe earbuds
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Very happy, though I must always remind everyone that, whatever what people recommend in this thread, you must take it with a grain of salt as listening is an extremely subjective activity.
  
 Most of all, you must first find your own preferred sound-signature.
 Cold signatures which is commonly associated with clarity and detail would often result in fatigue after extended periods of listening (IMHO)
 Warmer signatures tend to be associated with lush and laidback, which would be good for longer listening sessions.
  
 Of course, once again these are just my personal opinions.  
  


luedriver said:


> talking about movies, does anyone watch blu-ray's with earbuds?
> 
> mostly use my shp9500's but I have used even earpods to watch movies with, something tells me that seahf, might be a good bet for watching movies, since someone has said that they create an atmosphere when listening to jazz, if I remember correctly,
> 
> I wonder if the seahf smart 1.0 (that as others mentioned that needs quality recordings to shine) would be good for blu-ray movies?


 
 Although I do not use any form of earbud, headphone or iem for other forms of entertainment aside from music, I personally do not think the 1.0 will suit movies as highs are "rolled off" and maybe unable to create the soundstage and detail necessary to make the movie enjoyable.  
  


vapman said:


> What sets the seahf smart different from the other ones? I had seen that posted before and didn't realize it was a model name somehow.


 
 Maybe it has a following because it was "rumored" (but debunked) to have the sound signature as Zen 1.0?


----------



## fairx

audionewbi3 said:


> Maybe it has a following because it was "rumored" (but debunked) to have the sound signature as Zen 1.0?




May I ask the link where they debunk this rumours? Just Curious though.

And still confused about how many version 320ohm is.

 LD / smart / v1 v2?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

fairx said:


> May I ask the link where they debunk this rumours? Just Curious though.
> 
> And still confused about how many version 320ohm is.
> 
> LD / smart / v1 v2?


 
 I have personally contacted the maker of SeaHF and according to him, although the driver, housing,cable of the SeaHF V1 is the same as the Zen 1.0, the tunning is different. If memory serves me right, some in this thread have compared the Zen 1.0 to the SeaHF 320Ohm V1 and confirmed that they indeed sound different.
  
 As for SeaHF versions, I only know what is available from Taobao. Kindly check my reference post.
 For a complete listing of SeaHF's kindly summon Sir @haiku


----------



## dearyon

fairx said:


> May I ask the link where they debunk this rumours? Just Curious though.
> 
> And still confused about how many version 320ohm is.
> 
> LD / smart / v1 v2?


 
 Seahf V1 320 Ohm (white Zen like cable) only on Taobao
 Seahf V2 320 Ohm (black braided cable with black housing) only on Taobao
 Seahf LD 3.0 320 Ohm (white braided cable with black housing) only on Aliexpress

 I think there is three version of Seahf 320 Ohm.
 Won't say any "Smart" word, because I think that is machine translator doing lol


----------



## BloodyPenguin

tomasz2d said:


> That's why this is so importatnt to find your preferable sound signature twin here. At least you have big choice:
> BloodyPenguin - budget earbuds lover but recently shifting into more pricey territory, also likes rather neutral sound signature.


 
  
 Wow, you really do pay attention!  VERY well done!
  
 Yes, I am a fan of budget earbuds with quality sub-bass and pricier neutral earbuds.  Speaking of, I have an unnamed 150ohm earbud that focuses on clarity coming in about a month..  surprise, surprise...


----------



## music4mhell

saoshyant said:


> Damn, I need to chime in more so I can be on that list. Then again, I'm kind of all over the map.


same here


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

tomasz2d said:


> That's why this is so importatnt to find your preferable sound signature twin here. At least you have big choice:
> 
> vapman - basshead
> AudioNewbi3 - hightshead
> ...


 
 What a list!


----------



## Tomasz2D

saoshyant said:


> I'm kind of all over the map.


 
  
 This ^^^
  


music4mhell said:


> same here


 
  
 Music4mheli - you are unfaithful Zen 2.0 lover.
  
 But let's just stop this guys 

 The list was supposed to be just an example that it is important to figure out somebody's sound preferences and find our sound signature twin before we will follow somebody's opinions.
 And even then it is also safer to wait for more opinions from different members and to not make purchases based on just one person recommendation.


----------



## mochill

Zen 2 black edition babyFTW!!!!!


----------



## Makahl

However, this guy is a faithful Zen 2 lover.


----------



## Spider fan

mochill said:


> Zen 2 black edition babyFTW!!!!!


 
 Starting to have withdrawal symptoms from the midbass and vocal heaven of the Zen 2 Black. I have been skipping my daily session with them because of the Olympics.  Cant wait to put in a listening session tonight after the events end for the night.


----------



## mochill

Olympic is boring


----------



## ld100

dearyon said:


> This is actually very informative to someone who doesn't really keeping up with this thread and want to ask to a specific sound sig./person
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 So what are your favorite buds?


----------



## haiku

K´s 500 Ohm earbuds are coming......TODAY!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I hope they´ll be a great companion to my new AK300, which is also coming today.


----------



## golov17

haiku said:


> K´s 500 Ohm earbuds are coming......TODAY!
> I hope they´ll be a great companion to my new AK300, which is also coming today.


Congrats, man!


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

haiku said:


> K´s 500 Ohm earbuds are coming......TODAY!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 oh man wanna hear your thoughts


----------



## ZerkMeister

Dang, I finally caught up with the 300+ posts. Can't even take my eyes away for a few days lol.
 I actually like the RX-1 and the build quality is good imo.
 I am also thinking of an amp to go along with my earbuds as well as my hd600, not sure what yet.
 Thinking on the bengkel macro and the cayin c5.
 Any other opinions?
 Also, regarding my purchases, I will admit I follow the hype trains and purchase and so far
 it has been well worth it.


----------



## vapman

zerkmeister said:


> Dang, I finally caught up with the 300+ posts. Can't even take my eyes away for a few days lol.
> I actually like the RX-1 and the build quality is good imo.
> I am also thinking of an amp to go along with my earbuds as well as my hd600, not sure what yet.
> Thinking on the bengkel macro and the cayin c5.
> ...


 

 if you decide to try the Bengkel amps:

to comply with Indonesian post office rules the battery is disconnected when shipped, it is a plug that will only fit in one way, very easy to do, just need a screwdriver to take the front off.
gain switch is internal unlike C5, default is low gain, click down the plastic button on the inside to make it high gain mode.
  
 that is really all. also, c5 is a bit gentler of a sound (bengkel makes it more forward) and has narrower soundstage compared to the c5. the bengkel can make my SZ2000 physically vibrate off my head but is a little less total power than the c5.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

zerkmeister said:


> Dang, I finally caught up with the 300+ posts. Can't even take my eyes away for a few days lol.
> I actually like the RX-1 and the build quality is good imo.
> I am also thinking of an amp to go along with my earbuds as well as my hd600, not sure what yet.
> Thinking on the bengkel macro and the cayin c5.
> ...


 
 Same here. I am actually looking for an amp around USD100 for driving both my Mojito and other lower impedance bud abd also my high impedance earbuds. 
  
 Any suggestions?

 Thanks


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Same here. I am actually looking for an amp around USD100 for driving both my Mojito and other lower impedance bud abd also my high impedance earbuds.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> ...


VE RA Plus 
https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=2


----------



## vapman

Only thing about RA Plus is it doesn't have much more output power than some DAPs.
  


> Driving 32ohm@ 150mW and 300ohm@ 55mW


 
  
 The Bengkel bMac, Cayin C5, FiiO e12 all push way more power than that.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Only thing about RA Plus is it doesn't have much more output power than some DAPs.
> 
> 
> The Bengkel bMac, Cayin C5, FiiO e12 all push way more power than that.


but 3V RMS


----------



## vapman

Hmmm... needs measurement for proof of what it can push!


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Hmmm... needs measurement for proof of what it can push!


 In addition, it can be used as a desktop amp with mains power supply, which makes him just, wow!


----------



## vapman

Same for bMac 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 i have never tried a RA amp but want to hear one, one day.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Same for bMac
> i have never tried a RA amp but want to hear one, one day.


----------



## luedriver

I found some sennheiser omx980, I don't really like earhooks, but if this is the same earbud as the mx985, I might be willing to try them, priced at 100 aud
  
 http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/tullamarine/headphones-earphones/sennheiser-omx-980-high-fidelity-in-ear-headphone/1089415501


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> Only thing about RA Plus is it doesn't have much more output power than some DAPs.
> 
> 
> The Bengkel bMac, Cayin C5, FiiO e12 all push way more power than that.


 
  
  


golov17 said:


> but 3V RMS


 
 Thanks for the suggestions guys, sorry if my question is derailing this thread. 
  
 When looking for an amp,I always only focus on the mv values only.
 How does RMS affect an amp?

 Can you guys provide me with a quick and dirty low-down?

 Thanks


----------



## Danneq

luedriver said:


> I found some sennheiser omx980, I don't really like earhooks, but if this is the same earbud as the mx985, I might be willing to try them, priced at 100 aud
> 
> http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/tullamarine/headphones-earphones/sennheiser-omx-980-high-fidelity-in-ear-headphone/1089415501




Definitely s good deal! Fit can be an issue with MX980/985. I actually think that fit is better with OMX980 as the clips keep the bud in place in my ears. The plastic part of the clips is a bit fragile, though (at least I read that so I try to be careful with them).


----------



## luedriver

danneq said:


> Definitely s good deal! Fit can be an issue with MX980/985. I actually think that fit is better with OMX980 as the clips keep the bud in place in my ears. The plastic part of the clips is a bit fragile, though (at least I read that so I try to be careful with them).


 
 its probably out of production, but I am getting mixed "signals"
  
 it was at one time on catchoftheday.com.au and was sold somewhere else for 70 aud, but a quick search on amazon and there is only 1 for sale for about 500 usd
  
  
 if it were any closer to my house I wouldn't think too hard about it, but 2 trains, 1 bus and 20 min walk seems a bit for some earbuds, that may or may not be like some other highly rated earbuds (mx985)...
  
 I am still considering even though...
  
 can you or anyone else confirm if they are the same earbud...
  
  
 side note they are designed by bmw usa, which is cool, I guess


----------



## dearyon

ld100 said:


> So what are your favorite buds?


 
  
 My favorite buds is currently Zen 1 with normal + donut foams combo to tame the peaky vocals
 My budget favorite is Elibuds Sabia V2, best bass quality I have found in 10$ price range so far
 And I must hear Zen 2 next...


golov17 said:


>


 
 Sir Golov, is there any difference in sound between RA Plus with battery or RA plus with adapter?


----------



## golov17

dearyon said:


> is there any difference in sound between RA Plus with battery or RA plus with adapter?


yes, 9,6V vs 18V power supply


----------



## dearyon

golov17 said:


> yes, 9,6V vs 18V power supply


 
 I see
 So I will assume bigger voltage = better sound
 And sorry for this OOT


----------



## Saoshyant

On a side note, Shozy Cygnus does decently well with FPS off the Xbox One S controller.


----------



## Danneq

luedriver said:


> its probably out of production, but I am getting mixed "signals"
> 
> it was at one time on catchoftheday.com.au and was sold somewhere else for 70 aud, but a quick search on amazon and there is only 1 for sale for about 500 usd
> 
> ...




I think it was a bit cheaper because ear clips aren't as popular. They were discontinued at the same time as MX980. The 985 series never had an OMX version with ear clips. Personally I have never heard of faked MX/OMX980 or MX985. It would probably take too much time and money to counterfeit them. I sold my pair of MX980 after I had bought a pair of second hand MX985. I also have a pair of OMX980. They all sound the same except for the MX985 being slightly more quiet. I usually have to raise volume by 2 "clicks" on my DAP for them to have the same volume as the OMX980. Otherwise they sound the same. The main improvement on the 985 is the cable (well, at least slightly better), volume control and plug.


----------



## luedriver

danneq said:


>


 
 in earlier posts you say they (omx980/mx985) are pretty big, how big are they in diameter? I have a few mx500 type earbuds and after a while, they get a bit big in my ears, also the hemisphere shape of the senheiser mx170 seem a little bit big sometimes with foams


----------



## Danneq

I do not think that the diameter size is much different from MX500 housings, but the 980/985 housings have got big dome like housings that can get unfomfortable after a while. This is the main reason I like OMX980 - the ear clips stabilize the buds in my ears.


----------



## luedriver

clieos said:


> Be very worry about MX985 / 980 from China, or any close proximity of China. Do note that it is one of the most counterfeited models in Sennheiser line-up after IE8/80/800 in China.


 
  
  
 this cuts some of the wind from my sails, :/ 
  
 just by looking at the 2 photos, I doubt anyone can tell if they are fake or not


----------



## luedriver

or perhaps an easier safer bet would be to buy the shozy cygnus, they cost as much 111 aud from penonaudio or 95aud from a seller from aliexpress


----------



## golov17

Mojito arrived, awesome


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> Mojito arrived, awesome


 
 Saw it on ELI FB and decided to congratulate you here!

 Welcome to the club mate. I hope you like the sound-signature


----------



## Danneq

luedriver said:


> this cuts some of the wind from my sails, :/
> 
> just by looking at the 2 photos, I doubt anyone can tell if they are fake or not




The same awful case that I got with my OMX980. MX980 has got the same case for ear clip less earbuds. The case that comes with MX985 is much better. The plug in the photo looks exactly like on my OMX980 and the MX980 that I sold.


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Saw it on ELI FB and decided to congratulate you here!
> 
> 
> Welcome to the club mate. I hope you like the sound-signature


Thanks, mate! Natural tone with comfortable fit, nice sound, love it


----------



## kinetic758

golov17 said:


> Thanks, mate! Natural tone with comfortable fit, nice sound, love it


 
  
 Did yours come with a sticky residue?  If so, I would recommend you clean it first before putting on the foams.  I made the mistake of not doing this and it caused the sticky stuff to get onto the speaker grill which made the foam get stuck and rip, leaving some foam lint /junk on the speaker.


----------



## golov17

kinetic758 said:


> Did yours come with a sticky residue?  If so, I would recommend you clean it first before putting on the foams.  I made the mistake of not doing this and it caused the sticky stuff to get onto the speaker grill which made the foam get stuck and rip, leaving some foam lint /junk on the speaker.


nope, all good with them..


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> Thanks, mate! Natural tone with comfortable fit, nice sound, love it


 
 Really glad that you liked them!


----------



## Tomasz2D

golov17 said:


> Mojito arrived, awesome


 
  
 Happy Monday Oleg !


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> Happy Monday Oleg !


 the first day of my vacation!


----------



## leobigfield

golov17 said:


> the first day of my vacation!


 
  
 So having a Mojito in the first day of your vacation seems pretty nice


----------



## golov17

leobigfield said:


> So having a Mojito in the first day of your vacation seems pretty nice


absolutely


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Welcome to the Mojito club Golov


----------



## Kelzo

TY HI-Z 32 on taobao has been out of stock for more than a week, someone I knew said that they've been making improvements to it. 

 Anyone know the reason why they're out of stock until now?


----------



## golov17

kelzo said:


> TY HI-Z 32 on taobao has been out of stock for more than a week, someone I knew said that they've been making improvements to it.
> 
> 
> Anyone know the reason why they're out of stock until now?


maybe replacement cables with bad 3,5 mm jack..


----------



## vapman

Missed the mailman today, looks like I have two things to pick up at the post office, one should be Remax 305m


----------



## ld100

golov17 said:


> Mojito arrived, awesome


 
  
  
 So how are they? (Not sure if you had them before...)


----------



## golov17

ld100 said:


> So how are they? (Not sure if you had them before...)


Normal


----------



## kinetic758

golov17 said:


> Normal


 
  
 Are you underwhelmed with your Mojitos?


----------



## sharkz

Slightly off topic, but does anyone have a recommendation for a decently powerful player that makes nice with most of these earbuds? I am currently running a Fiio X1 and E11 (my current PK1s just need the power) and I am curious what most here are using. I'm really not crazy about the player amp combo unless necessary and almost all of my "portable" listening is done via earbuds at work these days. Right now the short list has been the Cayin N5 and Shanling M2. I've really liked the Hifiman HM650, but the need for a proprietary charger drives me nuts. I'm looking to stay under $350 if possible. Sorry for being off topic, but I eventually see myself owning at least a few of the better earbuds described here.


----------



## golov17

kinetic758 said:


> Are you underwhelmed with your Mojitos?


 underwhelmed with Music, lol


----------



## kinetic758

golov17 said:


> underwhelmed with Music, lol


 
 Ah yes, I know that feeling


----------



## golov17

sharkz said:


> Slightly off topic, but does anyone have a recommendation for a decently powerful player that makes nice with most of these earbuds? I am currently running a Fiio X1 and E11 (my current PK1s just need the power) and I am curious what most here are using. I'm really not crazy about the player amp combo unless necessary and almost all of my "portable" listening is done via earbuds at work these days. Right now the short list has been the Cayin N5 and Shanling M2. I've really liked the Hifiman HM650, but the need for a proprietary charger drives me nuts. I'm looking to stay under $350 if possible. Sorry for being off topic, but I eventually see myself owning at least a few of the better earbuds described here.


 2016 Newest Shanling M5 DSD Hifi Rolution Loseless Portable MP3 HiFi Music Player Audio MP3 Leather Case
http://s.aliexpress.com/32qqeMjy
361USD


----------



## Blueshound24

kelzo said:


> TY HI-Z 32 on taobao has been out of stock for more than a week, someone I knew said that they've been making improvements to it.
> 
> 
> Anyone know the reason why they're out of stock until now?




I ordered one from eBay USA from BigBargainOnline just the other day.


----------



## Spider fan

blueshound24 said:


> I ordered one from eBay USA from BigBargainOnline just the other day.


 
 BigBargainOnline is Penon's ebay name


----------



## sharkz

golov17 said:


> 2016 Newest Shanling M5 DSD Hifi Rolution Loseless Portable MP3 HiFi Music Player Audio MP3 Leather Case
> http://s.aliexpress.com/32qqeMjy
> 361USD


 
  
 Thanks for the suggestion. That's been on my list too. Trying to decide if it's worth the jump from the M2. Also back on Massdrop for those interested.
  
 https://www.massdrop.com/buy/shanling-m5?referer=C3MXK7


----------



## golov17

sharkz said:


> Trying to decide if it's worth the jump from the M2.


for me, yes  


Spoiler


----------



## springbay

golov17 said:


> maybe replacement cables with bad 3,5 mm jack..


 
  
 Is there a known problem with the 3,5 mm jack on the TY HI-Z 32ohm version?
 Today I received the ones I ordered from Easy a couple of weeks ago. There is no problem with the sound, but I get a rattling noise when the jack is disturbed.
 They are so cheap that I wont bother to make a complaint. Instead they could be a good pair for me to finally get started in the noble art of soldering a new jack.


----------



## golov17

good cable. but the connector should be replaced


----------



## springbay

Ok, time for me to get started with DIY


----------



## vapman

springbay said:


> Ok, time for me to get started with DIY


 
 Good, good, very good.... the dark side has cookies, but the DIY side makes better ones all day long


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Zen 2 just came in


----------



## ZerkMeister

tayyab pirzada said:


> Zen 2 just came in


 
 Its time to find out the ultimate repsonse from everything you have compared to this.


----------



## mochill

Feed it good and it will reward you, under feed it and it will torture you with crap and low quality sound


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

The Zen 2 sounds really good wow. Very high quality sound. And yes my AK Jr can drive them fine, but I need to raise the volume dial way up. And I like their comfort without foams.
  
 With the Cayin C5 they sound slightly better (better bass and quality of sound).
  
 Maybe it's just my ears but the vocals/mids are slightly recessed in the Zen 2.
  
 Compared to the Mojito:
  
 Zen 2:
 - Very high quality instrument sound; possibly better than Mojito
 - Better bass
 - Darker
  
 Mojito:
 - Better soundstage and detail
 - More forward vocals/mids
 - Brighter

 I enjoy both quite a bit. Take what I say with a grain of salt though.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Overall I think I enjoy Mojito more


----------



## Makahl

tayyab pirzada said:


> Overall I think I enjoy Mojito more


 

 How does it compare to Cygnus in your opinion? Is it a good upgrade in any area?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

makahl said:


> How does it compare to Cygnus in your opinion? Is it a good upgrade in any area?


 
 I don't know but I think Cygnus vocals/mids are better and Cygnus is easier to drive too.
  
 It depends on what you want in an upgrade. Vocals are the best in Cygnus out of every bud in my opinion. If you want to upgrade bass, get Seahf or Ostry KC08. If you want to upgrade soundstage/details, get Mojito.


----------



## music4mhell

tayyab pirzada said:


> Overall I think I enjoy Mojito more


 
 Both has different sound.
 Zen 2 is more like analog with less High freq, but the tonality is awesome.
 So if you want to enjoy some music which has more emphasis on Vocals, the Zen 2 is a better choice IMHO


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

music4mhell said:


> Both has different sound.
> Zen 2 is more like analog with less High freq, but the tonality is awesome.
> So if you want to enjoy some music which has more emphasis on Vocals, the Zen 2 is a better choice IMHO


 
 yeah agreed. But I still find Cygnus better for vocals. It's a matter of taste. Zen 2 has better bass than Cygnus though.


----------



## music4mhell

tayyab pirzada said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Both has different sound.
> ...


 
 Agreed, but for me Zen 2 had better MIDS  , lol.


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> Agreed, but for me Zen 2 had better MIDS  , lol.


for me too


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Agreed, but for me Zen 2 had better MIDS
> ...


 
 Hey please give some of your early impressions on Mojito.
 I am curios and eager to hear from you.


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> Hey please give some of your early impressions on Mojito.
> I am curios and eager to hear from you.


Okay.. Natural tone, soft bass, high-frequency air, the richness of textures, even the vocals, very emotional performance. Although it is not high-resistance, but responsive to the amplifier, the cost is fully justified for the way they sound, the original flavor.. burn them 14 h


----------



## golov17

PS. Without any rings with MP foams


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I removed rings too. Only use Monk+ foams now.


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Hey please give some of your early impressions on Mojito.
> ...


 
 Thank you, i believe the same.
 But i use Hiegi Foam which reduces the High freq(Also smooths it) and increase the Bass. That's my personal preference


----------



## mochill

Burn the Zen 2 in


----------



## golov17

mochill said:


> Burn the Zen 2 in


----------



## haiku




----------



## golov17

haiku said:


>


500? 600?


----------



## haiku

golov17 said:


> 500? 600?


 

 500.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

haiku said:


> 500.


 
 tell us your thoughts


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > 500? 600?
> ...


 
 When 600 is coming ?


----------



## istlove

Crow audio's earbud is good.
If you like old monk, it is good choice.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Is there a reason my Zen 2.0 has a black face rather than transparent...?


----------



## music4mhell

tayyab pirzada said:


> Is there a reason my Zen 2.0 has a black face rather than transparent...?


 
 Please share a PIC


----------



## rggz

tayyab pirzada said:


> Is there a reason my Zen 2.0 has a black face rather than transparent...?


 

 No. That's the new batch of Zen 2 with the same typography like Monk.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

My Zen 2 has a black face like the Black Edition shell above, rather than the transparent face like this:
  

  
 Also my Zen says "Zen" on the shell rather than VEClan.


----------



## music4mhell

tayyab pirzada said:


> My Zen 2 has a black face like the Black Edition shell above, rather than the transparent face like this:
> 
> 
> 
> Also my Zen says "Zen" on the shell rather than VEClan.


 
 I hope, there is no difference in sound


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Zen 2 perfect for movies. Non-fatiguing sound and comfortable housing.


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

Glad my Zen 2 has the clear face, looks way cooler lol.


----------



## Saoshyant

As I've been listening to vocal based earbuds a bit lately, I pulled out my pair of DK-Jin to give them a listen, and yeah...  it can be rough going from something so talented for vocals to something that's not intended to compete.  In contrast, the instrumentals present in a bit more forward than the RX-1, but the lesser soundstage may also play into this.  It's a rather comfortable earbud, and aesthetically it's amazing, especially the cable.  For an earbud it has respectable bass, listening at a +10 on a rockboxed X3.
  
 There are some purchases that I look back and feel I may as well have not gotten them, mainly because they just don't get any real head-time, or they had a signature I didn't enjoy.  I haven't made up my mind on this yet, but as I previously mentioned, I have been spending a lot of time with vocals based earbuds, or at least vocally strong, of which I'd include the Mojito.
  
 Maybe it's time I try one of the earbuds that are truly meant for bass.  If anyone can make some suggestions which include a rough price so I know what I'd be spending, I'd really appreciate it.


----------



## haiku

saoshyant said:


> As I've been listening to vocal based earbuds a bit lately, I pulled out my pair of DK-Jin to give them a listen, and yeah...  it can be rough going from something so talented for vocals to something that's not intended to compete.  In contrast, the instrumentals present in a bit more forward than the RX-1, but the lesser soundstage may also play into this.  It's a rather comfortable earbud, and aesthetically it's amazing, especially the cable.  For an earbud it has respectable bass, listening at a +10 on a rockboxed X3.
> 
> There are some purchases that I look back and feel I may as well have not gotten them, mainly because they just don't get any real head-time, or they had a signature I didn't enjoy.  I haven't made up my mind on this yet, but as I previously mentioned, I have been spending a lot of time with vocals based earbuds, or at least vocally strong, of which I'd include the Mojito.
> 
> Maybe it's time I try one of the earbuds that are truly meant for bass.  If anyone can make some suggestions which include a rough price so I know what I'd be spending, I'd really appreciate it.


 

 Seahf LD-3.0 400 Ohm


----------



## luedriver

how does the shozy cygnus compare to the ve asura 2?
  
 both are at about the same price range, and neither require amping to use, both seem to be mid based earbuds, but I feel with what I read that the cygnus could have more bass and perhaps a bit more clarity
  
 I am almost sold on the cygnus, but then I remembered the asura 2
  
 which are better for movies, or video games, which for music? (I don't listen to hardly any vocals, mostly instrumental and electronic)


----------



## Saoshyant

@luedriver You might want to also ask around about the Crow Audio earbud which is a mod on the original Monk.  I know the version I have is really quite impressive, but I'm not sure if I have the same version others have been getting.  I know I have a hard time picking between it and the Cygnus.
  
 Also, at about 3 albums in with the DK-Jin, I'm realizing how much it reminds me of a Grado at times with how it sounds, although it is a bit closed in due to it's design.


----------



## haiku

Foams anyone?


----------



## mochill

golov17 said:


> mochill said:
> 
> 
> > Burn the Zen 2 in


he has to burn it in for the full sound to mature and an amp (VE RA2.0) to push it to the max


----------



## vapman

haiku

When your stash of foams becomes unmanageable,
You know you have a decent collection going 

luedriver no reason to get asura 2 over cygnus unless you prefer the VE style shell, asura should be $20-30 less


----------



## luedriver

vapman said:


> @luedriver no reason to get asura 2 over cygnus unless you prefer the VE style shell, asura should be $20-30 less


 
 in aud they are both about $100 comparing cygnus from penonaudio and asura from veclan
  
 I don't favor the mx500 shell, but maybe the audio signature of ve could tip the favor, that is why I asked for suggestions, but I feel the cygnus could be better, only from just what I have read so far,
  
 better is relative so I listed what I intend to use them for, movies, video games, ost (original sound tracks of video games) and other instrumental and/or electronic music


----------



## vapman

luedriver said:


> in aud they are both about $100 comparing cygnus from penonaudio and asura from veclan
> 
> I don't favor the mx500 shell, but maybe the audio signature of ve could tip the favor, that is why I asked for suggestions, but I feel the cygnus could be better, only from just what I have read so far,
> 
> better is relative so I listed what I intend to use them for, movies, video games, ost (original sound tracks of video games) and other instrumental and/or electronic music




If they are the same price in the end to you that makes the cygnus even more of a no brainer. The asura just isn't good enough to stand up to any competition over $50usd.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

luedriver said:


> in aud they are both about $100 comparing cygnus from penonaudio and asura from veclan
> 
> I don't favor the mx500 shell, but maybe the audio signature of ve could tip the favor, that is why I asked for suggestions, but I feel the cygnus could be better, only from just what I have read so far,
> 
> better is relative so I listed what I intend to use them for, movies, video games, ost (original sound tracks of video games) and other instrumental and/or electronic music


 
 Cygnus is better


----------



## luedriver

is penonaudio a good place to order them from?
  
I read it is better to order them direct from shozy, or is this because I found 3 sellers on aliexpress that sell them a bit cheaper?


----------



## audio123

luedriver said:


> is penonaudio a good place to order them from?
> 
> I read it is better to order them direct from shozy, or is this because I found 3 sellers on aliexpress that sell them a bit cheaper?


 

 penon is reputable
 top notch customer service


----------



## AudioNewbi3

haiku said:


> Foams anyone?


 
 How are the 500Ohms?
 What are your initial impressions of them?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

luedriver said:


> is penonaudio a good place to order them from?
> 
> I read it is better to order them direct from shozy, or is this because I found 3 sellers on aliexpress that sell them a bit cheaper?


 
 bought mine from penon too!


----------



## GermanGuy

Penon Audio is by far my preferred seller, great guys, product range, customer service!


----------



## mochill

vapman said:


> luedriver said:
> 
> 
> > in aud they are both about $100 comparing cygnus from penonaudio and asura from veclan
> ...


have you heard it???


----------



## vapman

Believe it or not, I have never bought from Penon. I always pick the cheapest I find on Aliexpress and then ask for the head-fi discount to get another $5 or so off. As long as you don't pick an untrusted/sketchy seller with sub 95% positive feedback you'll be fine.


----------



## sharkz

How does this Head-fi discount work? Does it only work with certain sellers?


----------



## vapman

sharkz said:


> How does this Head-fi discount work? Does it only work with certain sellers?




Most people here use the same sellers who are known to give discounts to head-fi members. Sometimes I try a new store and do the same thing and they say to mention here that they will offer a discount to any head-fi member. You place your order but don't pay immediately, you cancel at the payment page then can go back to your order and message the seller there. I just say I'm vapman from head-fi and can I have a discounted price please. Wait for adjustment, you'll get an email when they set the price for you, then go and pay. 

Don't say you're vapman or i'll get angry >:[


----------



## sharkz

I'm going to have to try that in the future. My recent Aliexpress order was for like 10 cents over the balance I had left on a gift credit card I was trying to use up. I wound up having to use a dormant card I really didn't want to which was a bummer. I think some more earbuds over 32 ohms are in my near future though. I'm still going back and forth on the Cayin N5 or Shanling M5, but one of those two will be joining my stable shortly.


----------



## vapman

Oh any seller would adjust your price 10 cents if that was a problematic amount keeping you from ordering. Seeing how readily they'll take off $3-5 for you being a Head-Fi member, I can't imagine 10 cents being an issue 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so remember that next time you're trying to stretch out a gift card and don't wanna explain a 10 cent charge to your bank!


----------



## Makahl

Can someone help me find the "MoonDrop (水月雨） VX Pro" on Aliexpress? I've found it on TaoBao, although I haven't any idea how to purchase from taobao...  I'm searching for a good analytical earbud <$100 and VX Pro looks a good deal.


----------



## golov17

haiku said:


> Foams anyone?


yup


----------



## ezekiel77

Hi guys, it's been a fun ride but I'll be going back to open cans and IEMs. Really enjoyed the help and camaraderie here. I'm letting go of both the Mojito and RX-1 at low prices. These are about 2 weeks old and practically new. Ads are in my sig. If you're from Malaysia pm me and I'll give an even better offer. 

Thanks guys.


----------



## ZerkMeister

ezekiel77 said:


> Hi guys, it's been a fun ride but I'll be going back to open cans and IEMs. Really enjoyed the help and camaraderie here. I'm letting go of both the Mojito and RX-1 at low prices. These are about 2 weeks old and practically new. Ads are in my sig. If you're from Malaysia pm me and I'll give an even better offer.
> 
> Thanks guys.


 
 You sell both in 2-3hrs already?


----------



## ezekiel77

zerkmeister said:


> You sell both in 2-3hrs already?




Yeah sold both to the same guy. Package deal.


----------



## jonsim86

ezekiel77 said:


> Yeah sold both to the same guy. Package deal.




Sorry guys. Was just a little quicker.


----------



## luedriver

just ordered the cygnus, from penon, and saw they were giving a "free" gift of iems for $10 (marked down from $99) with any purchase, (I know this is OOT, but I hope they compare well against my she3580)


----------



## Saoshyant

I've settled on heigi donuts for the RX-1. It stays put nicely, and has some solid clarity. The RX-1 is inexpensive enough that I don't mind bringing them to work, and in case something goes wrong it's not a big loss. Plus the sound even off a Sansa Clip is impressive.


----------



## Tarnum

I received RX-1 today, first impression is satisfied. Warm, rich, forward, not wide sound-stage, very similar with my "good" E100 and I don't think it has light bass, just right amount. I prefer it more than Tomahawk. Those who familiar with laid-back, relaxed sound may dislike them.


----------



## Makahl

tarnum said:


> I received RX-1 today, first impression is satisfied. Warm, rich, forward, not wide sound-stage, very similar with my "good" E100 and I don't think it has light bass, just right amount. I prefer it more than Tomahawk. Those who familiar with laid-back, relaxed sound may dislike them.


 
 Thank you for your brief impressions! Is the RX-1 similar as E100 in vocals, cymbals or just similar in terms of "bright" signature?


----------



## kvad

makahl said:


> Can someone help me find the "MoonDrop (水月雨） VX Pro" on Aliexpress? I've found it on TaoBao, although I haven't any idea how to purchase from taobao...  I'm searching for a good analytical earbud <$100 and VX Pro looks a good deal.


 

 ​You can find it here: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-New-Moondrop-VX-In-Ear-Earphone-HIFI-Fever-DIY-Flat-Head-Earphone-Equalization-Hifi-Flat/1825606_32686486524.html
 Only place I could find so far. Interested to know how they perform.


----------



## Ice Nine

Does anyone have any ideas on where to find the older model Rose Mojitos? I'm looking for the flat backed ones with the sloppy red and blue paint job (right flat side is red and I think says "ROSE" and the left side is the same except for the blue paint). I've got a WTB ad in the FS forum and have been searching the web for hours on end. Thought maybe someone in this thread may have a source or even a pair to sell.


----------



## golov17

ice nine said:


> Does anyone have any ideas on where to find the older model Rose Mojitos? I'm looking for the flat backed ones with the sloppy red and blue paint job (right flat side is red and I think says "ROSE" and the left side is the same except for the blue paint). I've got a WTB ad in the FS forum and have been searching the web for hours on end. Thought maybe someone in this thread may have a source or even a pair to sell.


unreal


----------



## Willber

I have the TY Hi-Z HP32 and think they are great (better than Monk+). Has anyone tried the 150 ohm version? I think they are about $20 and have braided cables.


----------



## audio123

willber said:


> I have the TY Hi-Z HP32 and think they are great (better than Monk+). Has anyone tried the 150 ohm version? I think they are about $20 and have braided cables.


 

 ag rx1 trumps them all


----------



## Willber

audio123 said:


> ag rx1 trumps them all


 
 Hmm, they look interesting. Are there any reviews onsite? These long threads are not easy to navigate.


----------



## golov17

willber said:


> Hmm, they look interesting. Are there any reviews onsite? These long threads are not easy to navigate.


first page


----------



## Willber

golov17 said:


> first page


 
 Do you mean this:
  
_"AuGlamour RX-1 - Warm, rich with an excellent mid range, if not slightly mid centric. Almost a Champions if extension to both ends is better. Above average build quality."_
  
 I was hoping for something a little more comprehensive. I found a post by audio123 where he said he would post his impressions "in a couple of weeks" but I couldn't find the subsequent post. Don't worry if that's all there is.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> PureSound (醇声) PS100-500Ω Extreme Edition Balanced


 what about them?


----------



## rggz

willber said:


> Hmm, they look interesting. Are there any reviews onsite? These long threads are not easy to navigate.


 

 There this more depth review in Japanese but you can translate with Excite translator which is better than google translate for Japanese-English, however, overall impressions here are a good earbud with a focus on mid area and some users think this earbud is a bit small failing the fit then mind that, but for this price looks an excellent deal.


----------



## Willber

rggz said:


> There this more depth review in Japanese but you can translate with Excite translator which is better than google translate for Japanese-English, however, overall impressions here are a good earbud with a focus on mid area and some users think this earbud is a bit small failing the fit then mind that, but for this price looks an excellent deal.


 
 Thanks for that, they seem promising. I wish I could find audio123's comparison with the Hi-Z (32 and 150) before I pull the trigger, though.


----------



## springbay

willber said:


> Thanks for that, they seem promising. I wish I could find audio123's comparison with the Hi-Z (32 and 150) before I pull the trigger, though.


 

 Before I got the RX-1, I would recommend the Cygnus, when people wanted to upgrade from the Monks. Now I can honestly say, I can't recommend anyone getting the Cygnus without first trying the RX-1_._ They are that good for a third of the price.


----------



## Willber

Thanks. I am reading through this thread (on page 542), when I've fully caught up I'll have made up my mind!


----------



## Blueshound24

Not sure if this is appropriate on this thread or not, but... If anyone has a RX-1 in good condition they'd like to sell, please PM me...


----------



## trespasser2

I´ve been using my Auglamour RX-1 for a week now in my Sansa Clip+. Although I´m not the biggest fan of Earbuds because I get in pain due to my ear shape after a couple of hours, I´m really amazed by the sound quality. ClieOS review, although short, is spot on:
  
 - Mids are the stars in this earbud, amazing detail and female vocals sound particularly good.
 - A little lacking on bass but overall good nonetheless
 - While not perfect, have a nice wide soundstage
 - Excellent packaging and good build quality for their price
 - One of the ugliest designs I´ve ever seen though
  
 I found them to be more enjoyable on linear sounding sources (Fiio X5ii, Sansa Clip+ {Rockboxed}) than on my Ipod Nano 1st Gen Wolfson DAC {Rockboxed}, better matching IMO. Please take these words with a grain of salt, they´re my personal opinion and I´m in no way an expert.


----------



## notamethlab

blueshound24 said:


> Not sure if this is appropriate on this thread or not, but... If anyone has a RX-1 in good condition they'd like to sell, please PM me...


 I believe [@]ezekiel77 [/@] has a pair for sale.


----------



## Blueshound24

notamethlab said:


> blueshound24 said:
> 
> 
> > Not sure if this is appropriate on this thread or not, but... If anyone has a RX-1 in good condition they'd like to sell, please PM me...
> ...


 
 Looks like it sold yesterday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I would consider any in ClieOS ratings list in category 1 The Champions, or 2 The Great.


----------



## golov17

blueshound24 said:


> Looks like it sold yesterday  . I would consider any in ClieOS ratings list in category 1 The Champions, or 2 The Great.


 http://www.head-fi.org/t/812442/fs-earbuds-seahf-ld3-0-320-ohm-150-ohm-both#post_12680354


----------



## Willber

blueshound24 said:


> Not sure if this is appropriate on this thread or not, but... If anyone has a RX-1 in good condition they'd like to sell, please PM me...


 

 ustinj has a set to swap for some Monk+
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/8385#post_12786380


----------



## Blueshound24

Hmm, I did order a couple of Massdrop Monk+. I'll have to see if I like them enough to keep both of them or not. :


----------



## jrazmar

After the Zen 2.0 then the Cygnus and now, I have a new personal Champion, the Edimun V3. If only the cable can be improved but for the sound, the best that I've heard so far (based on what I have and had). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Has anyone have the Edimun and Mojito? Can anybody compare? This can help save me a lot of money.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

jrazmar said:


> After the Zen 2.0 then the Cygnus and now, I have a new personal Champion, the Edimun V3. If only the cable can be improved but for the sound, the best that I've heard so far (based on what I have and had).   Has anyone have the Edimun and Mojito? Can anybody compare? This can help save me a lot of money.




I ordered Edimun (not here yet) and I have Mojito. Will compare when they get here.


----------



## vapman

Edimun is much more similar to Zen than to Mojito. Mojito is a different sound sig altogether whereas all the other mentioned are somewhat similar in sound sig.


----------



## luedriver

if its even worth mentioning, I ordered the cygnus after trying the auglamour rx-1,
  
I am starting to warm up to them, for positioning alone
  
I tried watching a movie with them and the sound seemed exactly as it was showing on screen
  
although there was a bit were the sound seemed to be coming from the 2 earbuds and from the center of my head and everywhere else all at the same time, which seemed kinda weird to me


----------



## jrazmar

tayyab pirzada said:


> I ordered Edimun (not here yet) and I have Mojito. Will compare when they get here.


 
  
 Thanks Tayyab. Looking forward to your impressions. 


vapman said:


> Edimun is much more similar to Zen than to Mojito. Mojito is a different sound sig altogether whereas all the other mentioned are somewhat similar in sound sig.


 
  
 I prefer the Edimun's wider soundstage and more open sound (as far as what I hear) compared to the Zen 2.0. I think it's a matter of sound sig preference than pure sound quality as both are very good performers in this aspect. For now, I can enjoy the Edimun while I ponder if I still need to get the Mojito given the price.


----------



## haiku

After a few days, here my first impression with K´s earphone.
  
 It quickly became clear, that my Fiio X7 isn´t able to drive them properly. The SQ of the X7 isn´t on the same level. The K´s have a 8K TV resolution, so what to do? Made the jump and ordered the new AK300 Dap+Amp. Now, to say I´m in audio heaven would be an understatement. Never would have thought, my music could sound this good. It´s a lot of money, but tbh I don´t care if it can sound so great.
 Highs, Mids and Bass blend and become a coherent one. It´s all there. Total endgame. I wish all of you to have the chance to listen to this combo sometime.


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> After a few days, here my first impression with K´s earphone.
> 
> It quickly became clear, that my Fiio X7 isn´t able to drive them properly. The SQ of the X7 isn´t on the same level. The K´s have a 8K TV resolution, so what to do? Made the jump and ordered the new AK300 Dap+Amp. Now, to say I´m in audio heaven would be an understatement. Never would have thought, my music could sound this good. It´s a lot of money, but tbh I don´t care if it can sound so great.
> Highs, Mids and Bass blend and become a coherent one. It´s all there. Total endgame. I wish all of you to have the chance to listen to this combo sometime.


 
 How is it compare to your fav 320 V1 ? Specially the Soundstage and Imaging and instrument separations ?


----------



## vapman

Remax 305M never showed up, tracking never updated and seller never answered my messages 
  
 Picked up the Astrotec Lyra from the post office today - they are truly awesome. Super balanced, super neutral on first listen. Great soundstage it seems.


----------



## music4mhell

Why so silence today


----------



## Willber

willber said:


> Thanks. I am reading through this thread (on page 542), when I've fully caught up I'll have made up my mind!


 

 Right, although they do not get unanimously positive reviews, I have ordered these:
  
 http://penonaudio.com/Earphones/earbuds/AUGLAMOUR-RX-1
  
 Main reasons:

I trust the positive reviews (fingers crossed)
I like the styling
The smaller size might be more comfortable
They make a change from the ubiquitous MX500 shell
  
 I'll find out if I'm right in a few weeks.


----------



## gwompki

Howdy all.  I've got a set of Auglamour RX-1s inbound as well as two sets of Monk+.  I'm thinking about getting a set of Ty HI-Z 32Ohm, but wasn't sure if there were any other under 20 dollar ear buds I was missing.
  
 I've read through a lot of the thread, and those seem to be the 3 big standouts in that price category.


----------



## Willber

gwompki said:


> I'm thinking about getting a set of Ty HI-Z 32Ohm


 
 Get them! I prefer them to my Monk+ for their stronger bass and wider/deeper soundstage.


----------



## kvad

vapman said:


> Picked up the Astrotec Lyra from the post office today - they are truly awesome. Super balanced, super neutral on first listen. Great soundstage it seems.


 
  
 Interested to hear more about them - the open back sounds intriguing. Wonder how they stack up against other buds in their price class.


----------



## luedriver

I also am thinking about a few bug guy's 300 ohm or 400 ohm earbuds,
  
 but, the thing that stops is the lack of an amp that can power something like that,
  
 the obvious answer could be the VE RA 2.0 but at a price point of $500 aud its kinda out of my price point right now,
  
 even if I buy a cheaper amp that says 300 ohm it isn't future proof and would need to buy another even more powerful amp...
  
 so what I think I am saying is, if anyone knows of a amp that can power maybe up to 500 ohm and is cheap (under $200 aud / $150 usd)?
  
 but even if there was, would it even be good?
  
 I am expecting a 75 ohm adapter to try out on my earbuds and stereo amp, making some earbuds seem to be up to 135 ohm, would be nice to be able to turn the volume more than 2 out of 10 for a change...


----------



## dearyon

luedriver said:


> I also am thinking about a few bug guy's 300 ohm or 400 ohm earbuds,
> 
> but, the thing that stops is the lack of an amp that can power something like that,
> 
> ...


 
 bMac 3CH mk II and RA Plus is enough to power earbuds up to 600 Ohm, I guess
 they are under $150
 I will get one of them if I'm at your budget because I could use one of them on my desktop setup and portable setup without worrying about the battery are being damaged
 and 9v battery is easy to find and replace


----------



## luedriver

dearyon said:


> bMac 3CH mk II and RA Plus is enough to power earbuds up to 600 Ohm, I guess
> they are under $150
> I will get one of them if I'm at your budget because I could use one of them on my desktop setup and portable setup without worrying about the battery are being damaged
> and 9v battery is easy to find and replace


 
 was thinking about the RA plus, but it says that its up to 300 ohm and some say it can't power the zen 2.0 efficiently enough, although, wild lee said on facebook that pluging it in to a wall socket will almost double its power
  
 I am more of planing ahead of time, I'm not actually going to buy an amp anytime soon, its in my nature to plan way ahead and to over think things way before I actually do or buy something, (except for the auglamour rx-1, I got on that hype train as soon as it left the station 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## fairx

luedriver said:


> was thinking about the RA plus, but it says that its up to 300 ohm and some say it can't power the zen 2.0 efficiently enough, although, wild lee said on facebook that pluging it in to a wall socket will almost double its power
> 
> I am more of planing ahead of time, I'm not actually going to buy an amp anytime soon, its in my nature to plan way ahead and to over think things way before I actually do or buy something, (except for the auglamour rx-1, I got on that hype train as soon as it left the station  )



My situation as well. I'm considering O2 amp. Transparent, cheap and can drive up to 600 ohm (hopefully, with authority)


----------



## 93EXCivic

luedriver said:


> I also am thinking about a few bug guy's 300 ohm or 400 ohm earbuds,
> 
> but, the thing that stops is the lack of an amp that can power something like that,
> 
> ...


 

 Does it need to be a portable amp? If desktop is ok, Schiit Magni?


----------



## luedriver

fairx said:


> My situation as well. I'm considering O2 amp. Transparent, cheap and can drive up to 600 ohm (hopefully, with authority)


 
  


93excivic said:


> Does it need to be a portable amp? If desktop is ok, Schiit Magni?


 
  
  
 o2 amp, shiit magni, I forgot about those, nice choices,


----------



## haiku

music4mhell said:


> How is it compare to your fav 320 V1 ? Specially the Soundstage and Imaging and instrument separations ?


 

 When it comes to vocals, the 320 V1 in it´s best moments is on par with the K´s imo. But other than that, the K´s is in a totally different league. It has such high resolution, that it clearly shows you the quality of your recordings and the source you´re using. That´s why I had to part with my X7. As it is right now, the X7 simply isn´t good enough for the K´s.


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > How is it compare to your fav 320 V1 ? Specially the Soundstage and Imaging and instrument separations ?
> ...


 
 Who has bigger soundstage ? or almost same ?


----------



## haiku

music4mhell said:


> Who has bigger soundstage ? or almost same ?


 

 K´s has much bigger soundstage.


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Who has bigger soundstage ? or almost same ?
> ...


 
 How much you paid for this version ?


----------



## haiku

music4mhell said:


> How much you paid for this version ?


 

 About 200 Dollars


----------



## AudioNewbi3

haiku said:


> After a few days, here my first impression with K´s earphone.
> 
> It quickly became clear, that my Fiio X7 isn´t able to drive them properly. The SQ of the X7 isn´t on the same level. The K´s have a 8K TV resolution, so what to do? Made the jump and ordered the new AK300 Dap+Amp. Now, to say I´m in audio heaven would be an understatement. Never would have thought, my music could sound this good. It´s a lot of money, but tbh I don´t care if it can sound so great.
> Highs, Mids and Bass blend and become a coherent one. It´s all there. Total endgame. I wish all of you to have the chance to listen to this combo sometime.


 
 Thanks for the input and feedback with reagrds to the K 500Ohm.
 Sadly, that is one bloody hungry earbud hahaha. 
 No way in hell will my X3 with any of my amp combo power them to their fullest.
  


luedriver said:


> I also am thinking about a few bug guy's 300 ohm or 400 ohm earbuds,
> 
> but, the thing that stops is the lack of an amp that can power something like that,
> 
> ...


 
 Was considering the RA Plus or C&C BH2, but scrapped that idea and ordered a little bear b4 tube amp with AMP9920 Metal Op amp


----------



## haiku

audionewbi3 said:


> Thanks for the input and feedback with reagrds to the K 500Ohm.
> Sadly, that is one bloody hungry earbud hahaha.
> No way in hell will my X3 with any of my amp combo power them to their fullest.


 
 Exactly, that´s why I´ve decided to spend the money on the AK380 Amp, which is known to drive everything.


----------



## Ice Nine

.


----------



## vapman

There are definitely amps under $3,499.00 that can power high impedance earbuds just fine. Under $150 even.


----------



## Ice Nine

golov17 said:


> unreal


 

 Was this meant to be helpful?  If so I'm all ears.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> There are definitely amps under $3,499.00 that can power high impedance earbuds just fine. Under $150 even.


 
 Pray tell mate! Very interested to know these models!

 Thanks!


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> Pray tell mate! Very interested to know these models!
> 
> Thanks!


 
 Having had many amps, my vote is firmly for the *Cayin C5 or Bengkel Macro bMac 3CH MK2.*
  
 I refuse to keep around any amp which is not powerful enough to drive 600ohm over ear studio headphones, or cause my JVC SZ2000 to physically rumble off of my head, so I only accept amps with tons of power output 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 Benefit of C5 over bMac: slightly more output power, can also provide USB charge output, has bass boost switch, gain switch is external (switch is internal on bMac), usb charging (vs. DC barrel)
  
 Benefit of bMac over C5:  gain switch is internal if you are the kind of person that accidentally flips switches, has 75 ohm headphone output next to normal headphone output, battery lasts longer, battery can be easily disconnected for use as a desktop amp, handmade in Indonesia, rollable opamps


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> Having had many amps, my vote is firmly for the *Cayin C5 or Bengkel Macro bMac 3CH MK2.*
> 
> I refuse to keep around any amp which is not powerful enough to drive 600ohm over ear studio headphones, or cause my JVC SZ2000 to physically rumble off of my head, so I only accept amps with tons of power output
> 
> ...


 
 Wow, explained like a true basshead mate!
 One constant worry in my mind is that powerfull amps willbe absolutely useless for anything under 60Ohms, that is why I have avoided them (taking the plunge with the little bear b4 tube amp though which accorsing to specs willonly drive anything between 16~200Ohms)........Enjoy your amps and please for the love of god, dn't blow your head off with too much bass!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

On a side note:
_*ROSE TECHNOLOGY has release a pre-order link for their New 2016 Dual Driver Earbud!!!!!!!!!!!*_
 Holy Crap asdfghjk!!!! 
  
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-2075769592.35.qdhaw5&id=536938080337


----------



## dearyon

audionewbi3 said:


> Wow, explained like a true basshead mate!
> One constant worry in my mind is that powerfull amps willbe absolutely useless for anything under 60Ohms, that is why I have avoided them (taking the plunge with the little bear b4 tube amp though which accorsing to specs willonly drive anything between 16~200Ohms)........Enjoy your amps and please for the love of god, dn't blow your head off with too much bass!


 
 not absolutely useless in my opinion, you can use 75 ohm adapter to smooth things out for anything under 75 ohm and amp is there to add color/synergy to the sound


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

audionewbi3 said:


> On a side note:
> _*ROSE TECHNOLOGY has release a pre-order link for their New 2016 Dual Driver Earbud!!!!!!!!!!!*_
> Holy Crap asdfghjk!!!!
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-2075769592.35.qdhaw5&id=536938080337


 
 lol what?


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> Wow, explained like a true basshead mate!
> One constant worry in my mind is that powerfull amps willbe absolutely useless for anything under 60Ohms, that is why I have avoided them (taking the plunge with the little bear b4 tube amp though which accorsing to specs willonly drive anything between 16~200Ohms)........Enjoy your amps and please for the love of god, dn't blow your head off with too much bass!


 

 It's quite the opposite, the same rule is true of loudspeaker stereos. Even if you don't intend to use that extra power, it gives you more headroom 
  
 So even if you only use earbuds/IEMs, then you will be happy to keep it on low gain always, no need to go to high gain unless you're using some 400-600ohm earbud and you're turning the volume closer to max than you like.
  
 So while there may be amps that sound great and don't offer as high an output power as the ones I mentioned, you'll probably find when comparing them directly that the headroom alone offers such massive soundstage and details flow through so easily, it may sound less constrained to you than other amps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 Plus the bMac has a 75 ohm output built in, so no need to go looking for your 75 ohm adapter, it's right there in the amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 really great for the more sensitive IEM/earbuds.
  
  


audionewbi3 said:


> On a side note:
> _*ROSE TECHNOLOGY has release a pre-order link for their New 2016 Dual Driver Earbud!!!!!!!!!!!*_
> Holy Crap asdfghjk!!!!
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-2075769592.35.qdhaw5&id=536938080337


 
  
 Hmm, any links/specs?


----------



## mochill

audionewbi3 said:


> On a side note:
> _*ROSE TECHNOLOGY has release a pre-order link for their New 2016 Dual Driver Earbud!!!!!!!!!!!*_
> Holy Crap asdfghjk!!!!
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-2075769592.35.qdhaw5&id=536938080337


loooooool


----------



## vapman

P.S. I would like to take the time to appreciate what a good earbud the Astrotec Lyra is.  Even if PWAudio, whoever they are, did terminate it after 6 inches or so... was someone using their DAP on a lanyard or something? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Really crisp sound, great soundstage, great presentation, very balanced, very neutral, wearing it "over the ear" style like with the RX-1. I find it to have great bass depth too. It's actually the most similar to the Mojito i've heard aside from the Mojito itself. I would say the Mojito is another level of detail, but this is really the first earbud I've heard since the Mojito I feel has the same overall sound signature.


----------



## Fabi

haiku said:


> About 200 Dollars


 
 Link for K's 500, please? I can't find it. Thanks


----------



## kvad

vapman said:


> P.S. I would like to take the time to appreciate what a good earbud the Astrotec Lyra is.  Even if PWAudio, whoever they are, did terminate it after 6 inches or so... was someone using their DAP on a lanyard or something?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 ​Does sound very promising. Where did you get hold of yours?


----------



## vapman

kvad said:


> ​Does sound very promising. Where did you get hold of yours?


 

 Bought it from one of the original members of this thread, @Danneq.
  
 I think he bought another one that had an untouched stock cable and kept that one instead, so I think he has one in his active collection still. I understand why, they're really damn good.
  
 The bass extends MUCH lower than I expected. very little impact at that depth, but you can really feel it!


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> Bought it from one of the original members of this thread, @Danneq.
> 
> I think he bought another one that had an untouched stock cable and kept that one instead, so I think he has one in his active collection still. I understand why, they're really damn good.
> 
> The bass extends MUCH lower than I expected. very little impact at that depth, but you can really feel it!


 


 They remind me a bit of Hifiman ES100, but with a slightly more "exciting" sound. I found ES100 to be too neutral.

 Lyra is discontinued but Lyra6 with ear hooks is still sold. Apparently the sound has been tuned a bit on Lyra6 with a stronger emphasis on bass (I think it is enough on Lyra).


----------



## vapman

I did not realize the Lyra6 was still being produced. I will have to try them out someday. I am worried the retuning would remove some of the great balance though.


----------



## kvad

vapman said:


> I did not realize the Lyra6 was still being produced. I will have to try them out someday. I am worried the retuning would remove some of the great balance though.


 
  
 From reading other peoples impressions of the Lyra6 it sounds unremarkable for the price (best I could find was USD 128). Seems the retuning has turned it towards a warmer sound signature, loosing it's clarity, but keeping the sound stage. I'd say you got the right model : )


----------



## vapman

BTW, did anyone ever find out if those Taiwanese Blox were legit?


----------



## jamesbdh

vapman said:


> It's quite the opposite, the same rule is true of loudspeaker stereos. Even if you don't intend to use that extra power, it gives you more headroom
> 
> So even if you only use earbuds/IEMs, then you will be happy to keep it on low gain always, no need to go to high gain unless you're using some 400-600ohm earbud and you're turning the volume closer to max than you like.
> 
> ...


 
 How much is the bmac and is there a link? i tried a google search and it all went to headfi...


----------



## vapman

jamesbdh said:


> How much is the bmac and is there a link? i tried a google search and it all went to headfi...


 

 $115 USD
  
 http://bengkelmacro.com/v2/product/bmac-3ch-mark-ii-portable-headphone-amplifier/
  
 It will say but please note due to Indonesia Post law, they're not allowed to ship it with the battery connected, you unscrew from the front and the whole thing slides right out, plug in the connector (can only go on one way). takes 2 seconds. no risk of breaking anything. you will also see the gain switch when it is open. it is on low gain by default.


----------



## jamesbdh

vapman said:


> $115 USD
> 
> http://bengkelmacro.com/v2/product/bmac-3ch-mark-ii-portable-headphone-amplifier/
> 
> It will say but please note due to Indonesia Post law, they're not allowed to ship it with the battery connected, you unscrew from the front and the whole thing slides right out, plug in the connector (can only go on one way). takes 2 seconds. no risk of breaking anything. you will also see the gain switch when it is open. it is on low gain by default.


 
 Really tempted.  Anyone know if ih would drive t50rp or hd600 as well?


----------



## vapman

jamesbdh said:


> Really tempted.  Anyone know if ih would drive t50rp or hd600 as well?




I have used hd600, good on both low and high gain! No t50rp but have used HE-400 and SZ2000 with it


----------



## jamesbdh

vapman said:


> I have used hd600, good on both low and high gain! No t50rp but have used HE-400 and SZ2000 with it


 
 by chance there is not one you know that has optical in as well in that price range? looking for a dac to use with chromecast.
  
 and last question sorry to be off topic...


----------



## vapman

Maybe fiio e18 , if you need a dac too?


----------



## music4mhell

audionewbi3 said:


> On a side note:
> _*ROSE TECHNOLOGY has release a pre-order link for their New 2016 Dual Driver Earbud!!!!!!!!!!!*_
> Holy Crap asdfghjk!!!!
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-2075769592.35.qdhaw5&id=536938080337


 
 From pic it doesn't look like an EArbud, even on description.
 How did you find that it's an Earbud ?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

dearyon said:


> not absolutely useless in my opinion, you can use 75 ohm adapter to smooth things out for anything under 75 ohm and amp is there to add color/synergy to the sound


 
 Ah yes, that is also very true mate. But will plugging thing into the 75Ohm adapter change the sound signature?


vapman said:


> It's quite the opposite, the same rule is true of loudspeaker stereos. Even if you don't intend to use that extra power, it gives you more headroom
> 
> So even if you only use earbuds/IEMs, then you will be happy to keep it on low gain always, no need to go to high gain unless you're using some 400-600ohm earbud and you're turning the volume closer to max than you like.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the informative reply. I never fail to learn something new from this forum and that is why I love it!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 As for the link, I believe I have posted it along with my comment which is Taobao. Don't fret over the lack of product info and detail as it is still in the pre-order phase.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

music4mhell said:


> From pic it doesn't look like an EArbud, even on description.
> How did you find that it's an Earbud ?


 
 By reading the description mate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 EDIT: 2016新品 双动圈平头塞 masya 玛莎

 2016新品 = 2016 New Product
 双动圈 = Dual Driver
 平头塞 = Earbud
 玛莎 = Masya (Name of earbud)


----------



## AudioNewbi3

@Danneq  the vintage master, may I kindly know if you have used these before:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.jJRnAx&id=536102220815&_u=j2i926dj87a2
  
 Just bought 2 of them hahaha


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> @Danneq  the vintage master, may I kindly know if you have used these before:
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.jJRnAx&id=536102220815&_u=j2i926dj87a2
> 
> Just bought 2 of them hahaha


 

 Just to butt in here, if you're interested in cheap DAPs that sound good, I have & can recommend the Idealist S1813.
  
 I am definitely interested by this player you've posted...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> Just to butt in here, if you're interested in cheap DAPs that sound good, I have & can recommend the Idealist S1813.


 
 Thank-you once again for the input mate! But I am currently just looking for vintage Japanese or Korean daps that can run on dry cells to satisfy my childhood curiosity hahahaha.


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> Thank-you once again for the input mate! But I am currently just looking for vintage Japanese or Korean daps that can run on dry cells to satisfy my childhood curiosity hahahaha.


 

 So stuff like Archos/old Cowon/old Diamond Rio/Nomad Jukebox etc? I think Diamond had a decent market in Japan but can't speak for the rest of them. No idea where Archos is based out of, they could be from anywhere...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> So stuff like Archos/old Cowon/old Diamond Rio/Nomad Jukebox etc? I think Diamond had a decent market in Japan but can't speak for the rest of them. No idea where Archos is based out of, they could be from anywhere...


 
 Yea, something like those you mentioned. The most prominent ones in my memories were the Sony "candy stick" or "chewing gum" walkmans......man oh man they used to be soooo expensive back in the days.

 Damn I feel like I am derailing the tread. Anyways, look foward to how vintage gear running on dry cell can push my Mojito or SeaHF (Anything drives the Cygnus). I am though prepared for a warm sounding experience.


----------



## ballog

vapman said:


> So stuff like Archos/old Cowon/old Diamond Rio/Nomad Jukebox etc? I think Diamond had a decent market in Japan but can't speak for the rest of them. No idea where Archos is based out of, they could be from anywhere...


 
 Archos is from France. It was a respectable brand in the golden days of daps pre-iPods. Post-iPods they re-invented themselves with impressive tablets and media players (android tablets and iPad didn't exist yet). The guy who launched Archos was a true visionnary - his name is Henry CROHAS (Archos is an anagram). Unfortunately nowadays they just rebrand Chinese phones and tablets.


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> @Danneq
> the vintage master, may I kindly know if you have used these before:
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.jJRnAx&id=536102220815&_u=j2i926dj87a2
> 
> Just bought 2 of them hahaha




Sorry, I'm not familiar with those. I usually stick to bigger brand (like Kenwood or Victor).


----------



## music4mhell

Jut got the RX-1 and listening from Mojo


----------



## gwompki

Apparently penon is out of the TY HIZ 32. I emailed to ask when it would be back in stock and they responded within minutes. Looks like they will have a new version in stock on Aug 27. It will have an angled connector and "better sound quality". Wish I had gotten one of the current versions to compare. 

What's are everyone's thoughts on the 150 ohm version? Didn't see much written about those.


----------



## golov17

Del


----------



## 93EXCivic

vapman said:


> Just to butt in here, if you're interested in cheap DAPs that sound good, I have & can recommend the Idealist S1813.


 
 How does the Idealist compared to a Clip+?


----------



## Willber

music4mhell said:


> Jut got the RX-1 and listening from Mojo


 

 Please post your thoughts, I am waiting for mine to arrive.


----------



## dearyon

audionewbi3 said:


> Ah yes, that is also very true mate. But will plugging thing into the 75Ohm adapter change the sound signature?


 
 It will not change sound sig. 
 It will just add resistance to your low resistance earbuds


----------



## golov17

dearyon said:


> It will not change sound sig.
> 
> It will just add resistance to your low resistance earbuds


 you're wrong, on my C & C bh2 (out1 vs out2) in sound signature difference is quite significant


----------



## music4mhell

RX-1 has very bad Bass , i feel as if there is no Bass.
 I will prefer Monk+ over RX-1 for daily rough use.


----------



## Willber

music4mhell said:


> RX-1 has very bad Bass , i feel as if there is no Bass.
> I will prefer Monk+ over RX-1 for daily rough use.


 
  
 Oh dear, that doesn't sound good. Still, I use EQ so perhaps it will take some ramping up.


----------



## audio123

just got my zen 2.0 today.
 great soundstage and details. 10/10


----------



## kinetic758

music4mhell said:


> RX-1 has very bad Bass , i feel as if there is no Bass.
> I will prefer Monk+ over RX-1 for daily rough use.




Agreed on all points.


----------



## music4mhell

kinetic758 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > RX-1 has very bad Bass , i feel as if there is no Bass.
> ...


 that's all, i won't use rx-1 anymore, like my ostry kc08. now it will be wasted in an earphone pouch.


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> just got my zen 2.0 today.
> great soundstage and details. 10/10


used with amp?


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> that's all, i won't use rx-1 anymore, like my ostry kc08. now it will be wasted in an earphone pouch.


 I am still interesting to compare kc08 vs kc08t, I have. Maybe to exchange with you on something other earbuds .. that you're interested in?


----------



## luedriver

its so weird that for 1 and a half day I used the she3800 and felt no need to change headphones, but today I used mx170, which sounds almost like bigger headphones and then changed to the philips she2100 after the edges were to much for me and then still got tired of listening to them and ended up using my speakers on my pc...
  
 the she3800 were so comfortable and so nice sounding and so not fatiguing in any way and perhaps sound better than earpods, its so weird philips didn't sell these everywhere instead of what they do sell
  
 I use them as is no foam or donuts, and for my ears they are smaller than all (except for the rx-1's and but probably create a better seal than them), which I guess is why it has so much bass, I wouldn't call it a bass-head earbud but it almost has audible sub bass, 30hz tone signal does make a sound,


----------



## dearyon

golov17 said:


> you're wrong, on my C & C bh2 (out1 vs out2) in sound signature difference is quite significant


 
 well, I never tried a build in different impedance output
 I just borrow some random impedance adapter that my friends have and tried it a bit with his amplifier in low gain with my low impedance earbuds and notice almost no difference in sound signature except it did smooth the sound out a little bit
 maybe it is just my Tomahawk that doesn't respond well to the amplifier lol


----------



## audio123

are there any alternatives to blox tm7?


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> are there any alternatives to blox tm7?


Mojito


----------



## audio123

golov17 said:


> Mojito


 

 apart from mojito mate, its quite big for my ears thanks!


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> apart from mojito mate, its quite big for my ears thanks!


really  


Spoiler


----------



## Willber

music4mhell said:


> that's all, i won't use rx-1 anymore, like my ostry kc08. now it will be wasted in an earphone pouch.


 
 Damn, I wanted to have happy thoughts while mine are being shipped.


----------



## audio123

golov17 said:


> really
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 i dont like the protruding of it hehe


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> i dont like the protruding of it hehe


What, Sound!Sound!Sound!


----------



## vapman

93excivic said:


> How does the Idealist compared to a Clip+?


 

 I prefer it slightly, if only for the better screen, i swear SQ is better too.


----------



## audio123

golov17 said:


> What, Sound!Sound!Sound!


 

 it matters too... the ergonomics


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> it matters too... the ergonomics


yup, but they have comfortable fit..


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I love the KC08. Epic bass.


----------



## rggz

tayyab pirzada said:


> I love the KC08. Epic bass.


 

 Which of these are your model KC08 or KC08*t*? Because they have different tuning and sound signature.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I think KC08


----------



## mochill

audio123 said:


> are there any alternatives to blox tm7?


 ty-hi z hp400s similar iirc


----------



## Spider fan

My new portable amp for my Zen Blacks.


----------



## Willber

Lol, I hope you have big pockets!


----------



## Spider fan

willber said:


> Lol, I hope you have big pockets!


 

 I'm going to pull it around in a little red radio flyer wagon.


----------



## Willber

spider fan said:


> I'm going to pull it around in a little red radio flyer wagon.


 

 Ha ha, pics or it didn't happen...


----------



## Tomasz2D

willber said:


> Damn, I wanted to have happy thoughts while mine are being shipped.


 
 Do not lose hope. There are people that like RX-1 (and count me in).


----------



## Willber

tomasz2d said:


> Do not lose hope. There are people that like RX-1 (and count me in).


 

 Excellent, that's what I want to hear.


----------



## Spider fan

willber said:


> Ha ha, pics or it didn't happen...


 
 once burn is done its only on year 42ish. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  pretty impressed dont think its been powered up since like 1985 when my dad was still a groovy dude.


----------



## Spider fan

willber said:


> Excellent, that's what I want to hear.


 
 I like my RX-1 too especially awesome for movies/tv for me.  I scrolled through like 5 songs just to listen for bass.  What's weird is some stuff you dont expect bass it was present enough say like the bee gees.  It was actually midbassing pretty good with bell biv devoe.  But then when you throw on some rap or whatever where you expect big bass and it just totally lacking.  I think you just have to pick the right genres for listening to it.  I think the donut foams help a ton by adding bass but not hindering its mids.


----------



## Willber

spider fan said:


> once burn is done its only on year 42ish.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Cool, they made tough in those days.


----------



## vapman

I use my Technics SU-V76 sometimes as an amp. It sounds much better than it should for the price! I really need to replace the volume knob though, it is so dirty.


----------



## Willber

spider fan said:


> I like my RX-1 too especially awesome for movies/tv for me.  I scrolled through like 5 songs just to listen for bass.  What's weird is some stuff you dont expect bass it was present enough say like the bee gees.  It was actually midbassing pretty good with bell biv devoe.  But then when you throw on some rap or whatever where you expect big bass and it just totally lacking.  I think you just have to pick the right genres for listening to it.  I think the donut foams help a ton by adding bass but not hindering its mids.


 

 I'm not a basshead but I like to hear it if it's supposed to be there. Using donuts is not a problem for me, it's what I prefer anyway. If they're still lacking I'll just EQ the mothers!


----------



## Spider fan

vapman said:


> I use my Technics SU-V76 sometimes as an amp. It sounds much better than it should for the price! I really need to replace the volume knob though, it is so dirty.


 
 Only reason I dug this one out was I was reading about the next Bengkel Macro amp you guys were discussing.  I kinda decided I am probably going to get it too once it comes out.  Having the CC BH as my only amp just isnt sufficient.


----------



## kinetic758

golov17 said:


> I am still interesting to compare kc08 vs kc08t, I have. Maybe to exchange with you on something other earbuds .. that you're interested in?




I'm curious as well. Besides having a titanium plating, isn't the the KC08T supposed to have a slightly higher impedance? Still waiting for mine to arrive.


----------



## luedriver

spider fan said:


> My new portable amp for my Zen Blacks.


 
 joking aside, can it power the zen 2.0? I have an old kenwood, don't have any spec sheet, but I kinda doubt it was built for 300+ ohm headhones, even though I can't turn the volume more than 2/10. I see you also have it as much
  


willber said:


> Lol, I hope you have big pockets!


 
 nah, they're just bigger on the inside


----------



## Spider fan

luedriver said:


> joking aside, can it power the zen 2.0? I have an old kenwood, don't have any spec sheet, but I kinda doubt it was built for 300+ ohm headhones, even though I can't turn the volume more than 2/10. I see you also have it as much
> 
> nah, they're just bigger on the inside


 
 Yah they make the Zens scream at even just 2 or 3 and that is with my computer only on about 50%.  I am using foobar and a hifime 9018 DAP.   They sound totally full and luscious coming out of it.  I learned from googling this receiver has a cult following.  A bunch of people on the audiokarma board are into rebuilding these.  One weird thing is I have to turn it up another number when I plug the RX1s in.  I have no clue what is going on there since its like 300 ohm vs 32 ohm.


----------



## vapman

I always found the Zen to be fairly sensitive for a high impedance bud. Not totally surprised the RX1 requires slightly higher output. The Zen is absolutely a hundred times easier to drive than the Seahf 400 I had.
  
 Did we get any comparison of the Seahf/TY 150 & 400? Someone probably posted it and i missed it totally.


----------



## frususx

Proud to be an Edimun v3 user.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

frususx said:


> Proud to be an Edimun v3 user.


 
 how is it? describe?


----------



## petan970

Hi, as for earbuds, now i have T-music and RX-1. Both are very good.

What do you recommend as a next step for me? I want detail of RX-1 with (sub)bass of T-music. Price <100 USD.

My primary source is Hifime 9018 DAP and i dont know how capable is this DAP to drive high impedance earbuds.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

petan970 said:


> Hi, as for earbuds, now i have T-music and RX-1. Both are very good.
> 
> What do you recommend as a next step for me? I want detail of RX-1 with (sub)bass of T-music. Price <100 USD.
> 
> My primary source is Hifime 9018 DAP and i dont know how capable is this DAP to drive high impedance earbuds.


 
 I say Shozy Cygnus, but others may disagree


----------



## golov17

petan970 said:


> Hi, as for earbuds, now i have T-music and RX-1. Both are very good.
> 
> What do you recommend as a next step for me? I want detail of RX-1 with (sub)bass of T-music. Price <100 USD.
> 
> My primary source is Hifime 9018 DAP and i dont know how capable is this DAP to drive high impedance earbuds.


Blox b200


----------



## gwompki

I would just like to point out for those folks considering buying amp that B&H has Fiio E12 on sale for 79.99 USD. That thing has gobs of power for a portable. I'm thinking about getting one myself because I hear it can drive Fostex T50RP which are quite power hungry.


----------



## Saoshyant

The E12 can drive T50RP no problem. It's one of the more powerful portable amps out there, and can drive just about anything you can think of. HE400 sounded grand with it, especially with bass boost. Never really use mine anymore and use the Cayin C5 or RSA Shadow depending on what I need, which lately with all the earbud listening the Shadow works well.


----------



## Lionlian

Can RX-1 consider to be a huge upgrade from Monk+ ?


----------



## Tomasz2D

lionlian said:


> Can RX-1 consider to be a huge upgrade from Monk+ ?


 
 Looking at different personal opinions published here about RX-1, it can be considered as upgrade or downgrade or just complementary product to Monk+, depending on your personal sound preferences.


----------



## Sp12er3

Just received my Tomahawk, first Impression, an overall upgrade to the VE Monk+, its clearer, have faster, tighter bass, more soundstage so less cluttered sound. It just have an overall better technicality. Definitely become my daily driver now, with the Monk+ as spare (I kept a few just in case, and to stock up on VE thin foamies, they broke too easily...)
Its a bit bass light naked, but with the donut foam its the perfect amount without sacrificing clarity. 

Quite satisfied with my purchase


----------



## Lionlian

sp12er3 said:


> Just received my Tomahawk, first Impression, an overall upgrade to the VE Monk+, its clearer, have faster, tighter bass, more soundstage so less cluttered sound. It just have an overall better technicality. Definitely become my daily driver now, with the Monk+ as spare (I kept a few just in case, and to stock up on VE thin foamies, they broke too easily...)
> Its a bit bass light naked, but with the donut foam its the perfect amount without sacrificing clarity.
> 
> Quite satisfied with my purchase


 
  
 Did Tomahawk sound compareable to IM50? the onlything my Monk+ better than my IM70 is about comfortable term.


----------



## Sp12er3

​My IM50's right side is dead ATM... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will comment after I get the cable fixed.... again. Maybe its time for me to buy a HDC 1IS
 In my memory it has more bass quantity, smaller soundstage, but definitely better vocal (one I can't give up on when I try other comparable Dynamic driver IEM). I think the Tomahawk is clearer too.
 The fit is so so with the long nozzle, Haha, yeah with how I can lay on the side of my head with  the Monk, it is better as bed companion


----------



## fairx

sp12er3 said:


> Just received my Tomahawk, first Impression, an overall upgrade to the VE Monk+, its clearer, have faster, tighter bass, more soundstage so less cluttered sound. It just have an overall better technicality. Definitely become my daily driver now, with the Monk+ as spare (I kept a few just in case, and to stock up on VE thin foamies, they broke too easily...)
> Its a bit bass light naked, but with the donut foam its the perfect amount without sacrificing clarity.
> 
> Quite satisfied with my purchase




Definitely yes. But surprisingly I'm spending my time more with RX-1 these days especially with simple recordings, strings or binaural. The presence in low and highs are amazing (with monk+ foam).

Listening to Alexis Cole - another galaxy. The electric guitar sound sounds so.. electric! Can't get that with my tomahawk. But with my reggae playlist the tomahawk rocks!!


----------



## Lionlian

sp12er3 said:


> ​My IM50's right side is dead ATM...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Vocal and soundstage are much better and clearer with HDC5, don't wanna go back to used stock cable ever agains, so just go for it!  
  
 but I still consider a Luna shop cable too, a 95$ silver cable once, guess I'm going to use it with IM03 or 04 maybe?


----------



## Sp12er3

Interested with Auglamour RX-1 as well, but local store hasn't stock up yet, but I do plan on snatching one up when there's one
​​Just checked and there's actualy 1 seller, and he only has 1 in stock too... Should I really order one after I just received the Tomahawk? Gaaah.....


----------



## Lionlian

Can I use Arcam a29 to drive ZEN2.0 black?, really don't wanna spending on headphone amp.


----------



## golov17

lionlian said:


> Can I use Arcam a29 to drive ZEN2.0 black?, really don't wanna spending on headphone amp.


a29 integrated amp??


----------



## Lionlian

golov17 said:


> a29 integrated amp??


 
  
 Yes that it.


----------



## golov17

lionlian said:


> Yes that it.


what your DAP?


----------



## Lionlian

Is Onkyo DP-X1, but I'm not gonna used ZEN2.0 black as portable gear anyway, it pain for me to carry Bulky portable amp around.
  
 then again Is it going to stand a chance with KEF LS50 if I used it at home??


----------



## golov17

lionlian said:


> Is Onkyo DP-X1, but I'm not gonna used ZEN2.0 black as portable gear anyway, it pain for me to carry Bulky portable amp around.
> 
> then again Is it going to stand a chance with KEF LS50 if I used it at home??


 http://www.head-fi.org/t/811450/rose-mojito-earbuds/135#post_12799878


----------



## audio123

Can I ask what is the difference between ve zen 2.0 and ve zen 2.0 black?
 if i mod the original ve zen 2.0 with let say toxic silver widow, will it produce the same performance as ve zen 2.0 black.
 cheers!


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> Can I ask what is the difference between ve zen 2.0 and ve zen 2.0 black?
> if i mod the original ve zen 2.0 with let say toxic silver widow, will it produce the same performance as ve zen 2.0 black.
> cheers!


cardas gold with lifetime warranty?


----------



## audio123

golov17 said:


> cardas gold with lifetime warranty?


 

 i cant demo the cardas gold and may not like the sound signature of it.
 if lifetime refund i can think about it


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> i cant demo the cardas gold and may not like the sound signature of it.
> if lifetime refund i can think about it :rolleyes:


 lol


----------



## petan970

tayyab pirzada said:


> petan970 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi, as for earbuds, now i have T-music and RX-1. Both are very good.
> ...




Does Cygnus have enough bass?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

petan970 said:


> Does Cygnus have enough bass?




Bass isnt exceptional but its ok. Cygnus shines with mids.


----------



## petan970

golov17 said:


> petan970 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi, as for earbuds, now i have T-music and RX-1. Both are very good.
> ...




Thank you for this reference.
Do you have some recommendation from Aliexpress, Ebay or Gearbest (my favorite shops)?


----------



## jant71

I got a bit tired of the on the go fit of the RX-1 today(right ear moves and loses bass vs. the left) so ordered a pair of white EN-10...


 ...for the two pairs(long shown above and short) of caps. Should work well with them(work on the larger Edifier very well) and the white caps will match the silvers white cable nicely. I'll update to show how it goes 
  
  
 On another front, anyone here ordered the Moondrop earbuds?? Think I read in another thread someone did.


----------



## Spider fan

petan970 said:


> Does Cygnus have enough bass?


 
 I just put my cygnus and RX1 on a splitter and listened out of my 9018.  Personally, I think the cygnus is one of those that 5 years down the road when it isnt made you are going to wish you had bought.  It was the first non-pocket change cost earbud I bought. If  I had to have just one earbud it would probably be it because it so easy to drive and sounds good with everything.  With that said if I had the RX1 and just got  a cygnus in I dont know how happy I would be with the improvement atleast out of the 9018.  The bass is a step up but nothing overwhelming.  I dont know if you could get the same improvement in just eqing it up alittle.  I dont know since I dont eq.  Also, the mids are just tiny bit better to my ears.  The highs sound similiar with the Cygnus maybe being alittle brighter and more detailed but it was really hard to tell.
  
 When I read you post I was also going to suggest the Cygnus and like I said I think it is a must own.  It is the most comfortable and I think eventually a collector type of bud.  I just dont know how much you are going to be wowed by the difference.    I know for myself if I had the RX1 first then paid a decent amount of money and waited 3 weeks, I might feel a tiny bit let down.  Also, soundstage maybe a tiny bit smaller on the Cygnus. 
  
 Since I have alittle bigger collection I value having both since to me they are somewhat similiar enough and the RX1 is cheap enough that I dont mind ruining it or treating it alittle rough.  My Cygnus I baby because I want to keep it forever.
  
 Just my 2 cents but I dont consider myself a golden ear or super experienced so take it for what its worth.


----------



## vapman

I agree the RX1 takes a lot of the Cygnus' potenial "wow" factor around. it's still better than the RX1 for sure, but the RX1 offers so much of what the Cygnus does at a much lower price and with many more accessories... none of which i've used yet >_<


----------



## Spider fan

vapman said:


> I agree the RX1 takes a lot of the Cygnus' potenial "wow" factor around. it's still better than the RX1 for sure, but the RX1 offers so much of what the Cygnus does at a much lower price and with many more accessories... none of which i've used yet >_<


 

 Exactly, when I got my RX1 first thing I thought was this is going to hurt the sales of the Cygnus.  I like my Cygnus better but the RX1 is too similiar at 1/3 or 1/4 the price.


----------



## ld100

spider fan said:


> Exactly, when I got my RX1 first thing I thought was this is going to hurt the sales of the Cygnus.  I like my Cygnus better but the RX1 is too similiar at 1/3 or 1/4 the price.


 
  
 I think Cygnus is MUCH better. But RX1 is a good buy for the price. If the price would be the same I would say Cygnus is much better.


----------



## vapman

ld100 said:


> I think Cygnus is MUCH better. But RX1 is a good buy for the price. If the price would be the same I would say Cygnus is much better.


 

 totally agree, if they were the same price i would say the accessories were the ONLY improvement over RX1.


----------



## Spider fan

ld100 said:


> I think Cygnus is MUCH better. But RX1 is a good buy for the price. If the price would be the same I would say Cygnus is much better.


 
 I can understand that position.  As, I said I could be ok with it being my only earbud and originally that was my plan when I bought it.  I love the Cygnus.   Also, when you ask for an earbud that combines RX1 and the something with more bass (T-music)  the Cygnus is the logical choice and what popped into my head too.
  
 I just happen to have the same 9018 Dap he uses so I just wanted to give him a good comparison with those two.  As, I said I didnt really notice a huge difference in the mids and highs and there is for sure a difference in bass but not like say going to the zens.   I just tried to put myself into his shoes when I was A/Bing the two and how I would feel when listening to the Cygnus the first time after paying 2.5x his total earbud expenditures so far and waiting the normal 3ish weeks of delivery.  When going back and forth I would of been let down by the difference I heard between the 2 coming out of the 9018.


----------



## vapman

The sad but true rule of a lot of hi-fi is that price to "wow" factor ratio is a exponential curve. There always have been and always will be outliers, it's simply that the outliers have been rapidly dropping in price in the last 4-6 years. When I joined this site a decade ago, that killers in price to "wow" factor was the Koss KSC75 and Grado SR60. Oh how times have changed. Nobody was taking earbuds above $30 seriously until the Yuins showed up, and even then very few people admitted the higher end models were worth the investment.


----------



## Spider fan

vapman said:


> The sad but true rule of a lot of hi-fi is that price to "wow" factor ratio is a exponential curve. There always have been and always will be outliers, it's simply that the outliers have been rapidly dropping in price in the last 4-6 years. When I joined this site a decade ago, that killers in price to "wow" factor was the Koss KSC75 and Grado SR60. Oh how times have changed.


 
 My SR60s were like a wallhack in counterstrike.  I loved those things.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Tbh Cygnus is one of the best buds ever created. And I actually love the cable green more than the original yellow/gold.


----------



## vapman

Finally getting my hands on the vintage Sony MDR-E888, woah 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The last ones I saw on eBay sold for $120 (free shipping. but we all know earbuds weigh maybe an ounce), so I'm very excited!


----------



## mochill

Damn you vapman


----------



## golov17

petan970 said:


> Thank you for this reference.
> Do you have some recommendation from Aliexpress, Ebay or Gearbest (my favorite shops)?


 Mr Woo Fei sells in Thailand mainly. To get them, send him e-mail sale@bloxearphone.com


----------



## golov17

jant71 said:


> On another front, anyone here ordered the Moondrop earbuds?? Think I read in another thread someone did.


yes VX Pro


----------



## springbay

ld100 said:


> I think Cygnus is MUCH better. But RX1 is a good buy for the price. If the price would be the same I would say Cygnus is much better.


 
  
  
 It all comes down to personal preference. Before I got the RX1 I was considering buying a spare pair of Cygnus, since they will eventually be out stock and I was afraid there would not be another bud to fill their gap. After some quality time spent with the RX1 i have no intention to get another pair of Cygnus, but I already have another pair of RX1 incoming.
 They are damned good for late night TV watching when I don't want to burden my neighbors with the home theater system.
 I agree the Cygnus are more competent than the RX1, but not at all by far.


----------



## vapman

I had two Cygnus at once point for that reason, but I never used them after I got the Red De'mun... the shell is great but i found you can buy those shells for DIY earbuds easily on Aliexpress, so i was thinking of putting some monk plus in those shells, see how they sound


----------



## petan970

spider fan said:


> petan970 said:
> 
> 
> > Does Cygnus have enough bass?
> ...




Thank you for this comprision. As I have written, I like the bass of T-music. And my understanding is that Cygnus is just slightly better RX-1, that means with forwarded mids.

So what about MusicMaker Ting ($75)? Or HCK TP1 ($60), or 1More Piston Pod Earbud ($40), or FAAEAL 64ohm ($15), or FAAEAL 300ohm ($45)?
I prefer to buy at Aliexpress or Ebay or Gearbest.


----------



## Spider fan

petan970 said:


> Thank you for this comprision. As I have written, I like the bass of T-music. And my understanding is that Cygnus is just slightly better RX-1, that means with forwarded mids.
> 
> So what about MusicMaker Ting ($75)? Or HCK TP1 ($60), or 1More Piston Pod Earbud ($40), or FAAEAL 64ohm ($15), or FAAEAL 300ohm ($45)?
> I prefer to buy at Aliexpress or Ebay or Gearbest.


 

 I dont know I dont have a large collection and the lack of power on the 9018 reduces your choices.  I dont think the 9018 get my only 2 high ohm buds loud enough. 
  
 If I didnt have my Zens and amps already and was primarily using my 9018 I would be intrigued by the Edimun V3.  I know a few people have it already including Golov.  Vapman and Tayyab have it coming in.  I think it is suppose to be a low ohm warm bud with good bass and at a good price.   Maybe wait to see what their reviews are.
  
 But ofcourse it not from your normal buying platforms.   Also, the cable looks pretty stiff.  On my Zen black the stiff cable makes it that I only can listen to it stationery.  So that may effect your needs to.   
  
 The TY Hi-z 150ohm for $25 on AI would peek my interest too but I have never heard it.


----------



## Willber

> The TY Hi-z 150ohm for $25 on AI would peek my interest too but I have never heard it.


 
 I was interested in them but I went with the RX-1 instead based on audio123's (and others) recommendation. I really like the Hi-Z 32 and actually EQ the bass down a bit so I hope the RX-1 will be good for me when they arrive. If not I shall look again at getting the Hi-Z 150.


----------



## golov17

Really??


----------



## phiely

I love my Ting - it is has a unique, very clear sound completely different from my Mojito, RX-1, VE2, and Monk+, my IEMs, and Audez LCD3.

Find myself using Ting frequently.

Ting is in a completely different (and crystal clear) sound universe.


----------



## Spider fan

willber said:


> I was interested in them but I went with the RX-1 instead based on audio123's (and others) recommendation. I really like the Hi-Z 32 and actually EQ the bass down a bit so I hope the RX-1 will be good for me when they arrive. If not I shall look again at getting the Hi-Z 150.


 
 Part of the earbud fun is that so many quality buds are inexpensive or reasonably priced.


----------



## Willber

spider fan said:


> Part of the earbud fun is that so many quality buds are inexpensive or reasonably priced.


 

 Indeed, the problem is deciding when to stop! I started with IEMs but once I found the Monk+ (it was recommended on the KZ IEM forum) I've decided that buds are the way forward for me. Until I change my mind again, that is!


----------



## Spider fan

willber said:


> Indeed, the problem is deciding when to stop! I started with IEMs but once I found the Monk+ (it was recommended on the KZ IEM forum) I've decided that buds are the way forward for me. Until I change my mind again, that is!


 
 Yah I am done with IEMs too.  My last few I have had so much trouble getting seals.  I'll listen to my WR4 once in awhile at home and then rotate some of my cheaper ones when I go play poker or cut the lawn lol.
  
 As for earbuds,  I am starting to get alot of overlap so I am going to slow down except maybe some that are true true values or unique.  That is why I ordered the RX1s and the T-Musics.
  
 It hard to beat my Zen blacks when full bass, great vocals and smooth but still detailed treble is my absolute favorite sound profile.  It gets almost all my home listening time and most of my stuff goes unused unless its for tv/movies, when I go out and run errands or I am too lazy to hook up an amp.


----------



## mochill

golov17 said:


> Really??


yes☺


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I'm selling the VE Zen 2.0 for sale if anyone wants it. 115 USD. Message me if interested. In perfect condition.


----------



## mochill

Why brother??


----------



## golov17

mochill said:


> yes☺


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I have too many earbuds lol. I just bought the Sennheiser HD600's and I think I should save some money.


----------



## audio123

tayyab pirzada said:


> I have too many earbuds lol. I just bought the Sennheiser HD600's and I think I should save some money.


its never too many. You just gotcha catch 'em all


----------



## music4mhell

tayyab pirzada said:


> I have too many earbuds lol. I just bought the Sennheiser HD600's and I think I should save some money.


 
 Nice our collection is quite similar, i have HD650


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

music4mhell said:


> Nice our collection is quite similar, i have HD650


 
 wow, yes it is


----------



## music4mhell

tayyab pirzada said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Nice our collection is quite similar, i have HD650
> ...


 
 Buy MOJO asap, you will enjoy real music.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

music4mhell said:


> Buy MOJO asap, you will enjoy real music.


 
 Won't work with AK Jr


----------



## music4mhell

tayyab pirzada said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Buy MOJO asap, you will enjoy real music.
> ...


 
 Sad , i know someday you will listen to Mojo, then you will realize what you were missing in yiur HD600 & Mojito.


----------



## jamesbdh

music4mhell said:


> Sad , i know someday you will listen to Mojo, then you will realize what you were missing in yiur HD600 & Mojito.


 
 Maybe for portable but i personally love my little dot mk3 with a tube swap for hd600


----------



## BloodyPenguin

New Budget Earbud Arrival:

 The *MusicMaker/Toneking TP16*:

 Sound - Like a baby Ting with a touch of the sub-bass from the Tomahawk.  Sound signature is playful while staying in the realm of neutral.  Soundstage seems to be fairly wide.  Build quality is really quite nice for the lowest priced price earbud in their range. 

 I need to spend a bit more time with them, then I will try to compare these with a few other earbuds. 
  
 Though, I will say, I love having a pair of the MusicMaker/Toneking earbuds with a microphone.
  
  
 Here are some photos I took of the the *TP16*:


  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
 --


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I really enjoy my Garage1217 Project Starlight tube amp. Extremely smooth sound which removes sibilance from overly bright headphones (like the CD900ST's). And tube rolling is kind of fun (and inexpensive).
  
 For the record I keep listening to the Cygnus these days. The mids and comfort is just exceptional.


----------



## Tomasz2D

bloodypenguin said:


> ... a pair of the MusicMaker/Toneking earbuds with a microphone.


 
 I see one button. How does it work? I guess there is no volume control.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Best thing about about the Cygnus is it can be driven basically out of anything, and makes any recording sound good (even bad recordings).


----------



## BloodyPenguin

tomasz2d said:


> I see one button. How does it work? I guess there is no volume control.




It just has a microphone. For volume control (and great sub-bass), get the Vido earbud.

--


----------



## music4mhell

tomasz2d said:


> bloodypenguin said:
> 
> 
> > ... a pair of the MusicMaker/Toneking earbuds with a microphone.
> ...


 
 Because in this world there is no earbud with volume control which work on both iOS and Android.
 But if you have only Mic, then it will work on both platforms


----------



## fairx

I just browsing puresound PS100-500 on taobao using google translate.
  
 I wonder what it means: "Easy to push Edition"
  
 Theres also the PS100-260 (which suggest its 260ohm version) at 45usd.. anybody tried that before?


----------



## mebaali

Received RX1, this morning. Since then, I have been listening (with no earbud foams) to a mix of Tamil feature film tracks of last year or so (320kbps MP3s using Fiio X1 LO and NX1 LG at roughly 30% volume). I find (like few others before me), RX1 to be a solidly built (astounding quality at that), mid-centric, clean sounding (with great detail retrieval) earbuds with size and shape that is very comfortable on ears. I almost always had a love-hate relationship with earbuds when it comes to getting a proper seating/fitting to my ears. This one is, by far the best earbuds that I have ever tried, in terms of achieving perfect fit effortlessly. Besides, this comes in a great package as well (loved that wooden piece/finishing in the box). At its selling price of 20 US$ (some may have had it for even lower than that), I would suggest these as a solid addition to vocal and detail lovers earbuds collection.


----------



## luedriver

got my T-music noise canceling bass earbuds today, and my 75 ohm adapter from penon (bought on ebay)
  
 at first I did't know what headphones they were because the packaging was kinda big and was thinking maybe it was the 2 headphones I ordered from penon...
  
 when I opened it, I saw only a small earbud case, in a non descript plastic bag, and thought maybe some one sent me a headphone case as a gift, since I don't remember ordering one...
  
 then once I opened the case, and the image from the product page came to mind when I saw the earbuds inside...

 the cable is kinda rubbery and out of the case, they do have some bass, kinda reminded me of she3800, they came with donut foams, as shown in pic, my ears got tired after an hour with them (the foams are kinda rough), the bass with the bass on my old kenwood turned up seems to respond well, the only thing wrong about them is that the left is right and visa versa, but the shells are the same so I just swapped them around, 
  
 I tried them with the 75ohm adapter and it seemed to smooth the sound a bit, on my iphone I could turn the volume max and not be too bothered by the volume, too much (it was still way too loud, not the point but still), but normal listening volume was about 8-10 out of 16
  
 haven't tried the adapter with monk+,  hp32, or rx-1 or anything else,
  
 I wonder if the resistance was enough to use on ps3 with out a pre-amp volume control...


----------



## frususx

tayyab pirzada said:


> how is it? describe?



Briefly compare RX1 and DIY DDM

RX1 : Nature and Mid centric sound 

DIY DDM : bright & analytical sound with wide sound stage

Edimun V3 : Warm and Mid centric sound

RX1 and Edimun has become my favourite earbuds(previously was DDM),both has smooth mid and easy drive.


----------



## vapman

I'm interested in the Ting again but don't want if it if it can't beat my Astrotec Lyra on crystal clear detailing!

golov17 I forget, do you have both? I know you had Lyra, at least...


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> I'm interested in the Ting again but don't want if it if it can't beat my Astrotec Lyra on crystal clear detailing!
> 
> golov17 I forget, do you have both? I know you had Lyra, at least...


not have Ting


----------



## vapman

Hmmmm, BloodyPenguin sorry to tag you but do you have experience with ting/lyra?

Sorry golov17!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> Hmmmm, BloodyPenguin sorry to tag you but do you have experience with ting/lyra?
> 
> Sorry golov17!




Just Ting. If love to try the Lyra someday though.

--


----------



## vapman

Darn it, everyone either has one or the other! 

Sorry for tagging both of you. But thank you for the speedy replies.


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> Darn it, everyone either has one or the other!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 +1 for Ting


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> +1 for Ting


 

 How's the clarity on Ting versus the Mojito? I know that's a stretch to compare, but the Mojito is the closest to the original Lyra I know of.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> How's the clarity on Ting versus the Mojito? I know that's a stretch to compare, but the Mojito is the closest to the original Lyra I know of.


maybe VX Pro baby's Mojito?


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > How's the clarity on Ting versus the Mojito? I know that's a stretch to compare, but the Mojito is the closest to the original Lyra I know of.
> ...


 
  


vapman said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > +1 for Ting
> ...


 
 Hmm, Tough question, clarity on Mojito is better. But Ting is very very musical


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> maybe VX Pro baby's Mojito?


 

 Did you get VX Pro? I was thinking about it but was waiting on reviews before i  buy one! maybe i missed them...


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Did you get VX Pro? I was thinking about it but was waiting on reviews before i  buy one! maybe i missed them...


also not, but ClieOS rating on the first page said that..


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> also not, but ClieOS rating on the first page said that..


 

 I did not see this! thank you


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> I did not see this! thank you


i buy


----------



## HairyHeadMara

Got my VX pro coming as well, will share an impression once I receive them.


----------



## vapman

Excited for all these soon-to-be reviews, then!


----------



## Saoshyant

For budget earphones, what would be the go to detail option? I know the RX-1 covers budget vocal, and maybe detail too. Something like the HP180 is bassy to my ears and wouldn't be suited most likely. I'd prefer something not heavy handed on the ohms.


----------



## audio123

Somehow i prefer rx-1 to zen for vocals


----------



## vapman

As far as budget ones go my vote honestly has to go for the monk plus. It's just too good for the money. I don't even use my RX1...


----------



## Saoshyant

The only real plus is the RX-1 is easily driven by something like a Clip+


----------



## AudioNewbi3

hairyheadmara said:


> Got my VX pro coming as well, will share an impression once I receive them.


 
 Man Oh man, after some time in the forum, I finally found another user of TRASAM amp!!!!! Wohoooo!!!!
  


saoshyant said:


> For budget earphones, what would be the go to detail option? I know the RX-1 covers budget vocal, and maybe detail too. Something like the HP180 is bassy to my ears and wouldn't be suited most likely. I'd prefer something not heavy handed on the ohms.


 
 Maybe the DIY DUAL DRIVERS or GSG BlackBud supreme


----------



## HairyHeadMara

Love my Trasam but haven't use them much since I've received my ALO RX, but honestly Trasam is a very capable little amp.


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> As far as budget ones go my vote honestly has to go for the monk plus. It's just too good for the money. I don't even use my RX1...


 
 Same here


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> Man Oh man, after some time in the forum, I finally found another user of TRASAM amp!!!!! Wohoooo!!!!
> 
> Maybe the DIY DUAL DRIVERS or GSG BlackBud supreme


 

 I haven't heard the DIY Dual Driver or BlackBud, but I do know people whose opinions I trust say the Dual Driver is an excellent choice _so long as _you don't mind that it has no bass impact/depth.


----------



## luedriver

I don't really know if this is OOT but has anyone had any experience with 75ohm adapters, and how they can affect the sound signature of earbuds,
  
 to me so far it has smoothed over the bass hump of earpods, and maybe cut the sibilance of the T-music by a hair, just enough to question my own impressions,
  
 this could be due to "new toy syndrome",
  
 even my old philips she2670 seem to improve with the help of 75ohm impedance,
  
 or perhaps this is because of how old my stereo amp the kenwood is, and low impedance headphones/earphones benefit more, like how that portable amp has an built in 75ohm for this reason


----------



## vapman

It is different for every model of headphone or earbud, @luedriver. Some of my earbuds it is no different than the normal sound, except quieter. Some of them it changes the tone minimally, some it changes the tone fairly significantly.


----------



## ld100

golov17 said:


> maybe VX Pro baby's Mojito?


 
  
 Do you have VX Pro? If you do could you do small review?


----------



## golov17

ld100 said:


> Do you have VX Pro? If you do could you do small review?


on the way


----------



## Spider fan

luedriver said:


> I don't really know if this is OOT but has anyone had any experience with 75ohm adapters, and how they can affect the sound signature of earbuds,
> 
> to me so far it has smoothed over the bass hump of earpods, and maybe cut the sibilance of the T-music by a hair, just enough to question my own impressions,
> 
> ...


 
 Since I dug out that old Sansui I posted the other day I been reading alot about whether vintage receivers can be used instead of a headphone amp.  One thing I read is alot of the old amps would throw in resistors between the amp section and the headphone out to protect the headphones from too much power.  Thus the ohm resistance of the headphone out would often be like 350-600 ohm and thus wouldnt do well with low ohm high efficient modern stuff.  I remember one dude freaking out about the superdac having like a 5.5 resistance and now we are talking about  150-650.  However, tons of people have success and swear by their vintage over headphone amps.  Basically, it seems to be hit or miss depending on the actual receiver/amp and the headphones.  If this is the case for your amp maybe raising the ohms of your headphones is actually helping.
  
 Newer receivers mostly went to putting an opamp in for the headphone out instead of connectly directly to the main amp stage.  I am not sure which of these categories your amp falls into.
  
 Nobody kill me I am just paraphrasing best I can and as I can best remember.  I really had no clue before I read it yesterday.  Google vintage as headphone amp and you can read it yourselves.  I just thought maybe this concept might apply here.


----------



## vapman

You more or less have it right @Spider fan
 of course there will always be outliers in a generalization but it is definitely true many older amps/receivers pull the signal directly from the speaker outputs and then do something to limit the output power so you don't push 100+ watts to your headphones.


----------



## Spider fan

vapman said:


> You more or less have it right @Spider fan
> of course there will always be outliers in a generalization but it is definitely true many older amps/receivers pull the signal directly from the speaker outputs and then do something to limit the output power so you don't push 100+ watts to your headphones.


 
 Lol I hate my name on here.  When I signed up the company spider was having a special on their Realvoice Iems and I had missed the deadline.  I thought if I named myself after them they would push the deadline back for me.  They did but now I'm stuck with this dumb name and iems I never listen to.  HAHA
  
 On topic, mailman finally dropped off my T-Musics.


----------



## sharkz

It's funny a batch of T-Musics have all delivered at the same time. Mine hit the states yesterday and just delivered today as well. Looking forward to trying something new.


----------



## Spider fan

sharkz said:


> It's funny a batch of T-Musics have all delivered at the same time. Mine hit the states yesterday and just delivered today as well. Looking forward to trying something new.


 
 Listening through Madonna Immaculate collection cd and definitely a different tone than the rest of my stuff.  I am not sure if it just darker or duller.  Lol I know that is not a good word but seems like a relaxing non-fatiguing listen which I am adjusting to and enjoying.
  
 edit: pulled off the foam donuts and it took away the veil/dullness I thought I was hearing.  Lost some bass though think I will try some rubber rings.
  
 reedit:  had to go back to foam donuts because loss too much bass.  Now onto Monk+ donuts.  The brain is a crazy thing.  I adjust too the lower amount of upper mid energy because now my monk+ sounds shouty when I go back to it in my comparison.  I'm done with critical and just going to enjoy the listening. 
  
 Final initial impression (maybe brain burnin or actual change after couple hours of use probably both):  Good Bass with Monk+ donut foams, good vocals although flatter upper mid energy,  not airy and not very big soundstage.  I am getting an intimate personal experience vibe.  I felt like I was in the studio listening to Fergie and WIll.I.Am  and then like I was at the front table listening to Kid Rock and Sheryl Crow singing in a small bar.  Different experience for $10.  I'm pleased.  Also, handles rap great usually I'll try one rap song with an earbud and give up.  Surprising me how its handling the bass without breaking up.  EricB and Rakim Never Scared sounds awesome.   One of my main burn in songs so Ive listened to the bass of it alot.


----------



## mochill

saoshyant said:


> For budget earphones, what would be the go to detail option? I know the RX-1 covers budget vocal, and maybe detail too. Something like the HP180 is bassy to my ears and wouldn't be suited most likely. I'd prefer something not heavy handed on the ohms.





>


 
 MAYBE THE HEAVENLY SOUND CADENZA 
  
 WWW.FACEBOOK.COM/HEAVENLYSOUNDSJKT


----------



## Tomasz2D

mochill said:


> MAYBE THE HEAVENLY SOUND CADENZA


 
 Do they ship internationally? I wanted to try them but got this reply from them "Still havent yet any idea to send outside country".


----------



## 93EXCivic

Is this the T-Music that is mentioned in this thread?
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/T-Music-Professional-DIY-HiFi-Headphone-Cable/32686800517.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.68.EQbQ7P&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_10,searchweb201602_4_10057_10056_10037_10055_10054_301_10059_10058_10032_10017_10060_10061_10052_414_10062_10053_413_10050_10051,searchweb201603_1&btsid=15348886-8324-4292-b480-8646105d2036


----------



## David Mitchell

bloodypenguin said:


> New Budget Earbud Arrival:
> 
> The *MusicMaker/Toneking TP16*:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oho! Maybe I will try these if the Edifier H185P doesn't suit me. Or even if it does! Looking forward to comparisons (and to getting the H185P and Monk Plus in so I have some points of reference).


----------



## mochill

tomasz2d said:


> mochill said:
> 
> 
> > MAYBE THE HEAVENLY SOUND CADENZA
> ...


if you have a friend in Indonesia that can ship it for you then you can get it☺


----------



## Spider fan

93excivic said:


> Is this the T-Music that is mentioned in this thread?
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/T-Music-Professional-DIY-HiFi-Headphone-Cable/32686800517.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.68.EQbQ7P&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_10,searchweb201602_4_10057_10056_10037_10055_10054_301_10059_10058_10032_10017_10060_10061_10052_414_10062_10053_413_10050_10051,searchweb201603_1&btsid=15348886-8324-4292-b480-8646105d2036


 
 yes


----------



## Willber

93excivic said:


> Is this the T-Music that is mentioned in this thread?
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/T-Music-Professional-DIY-HiFi-Headphone-Cable/32686800517.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.68.EQbQ7P&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_10,searchweb201602_4_10057_10056_10037_10055_10054_301_10059_10058_10032_10017_10060_10061_10052_414_10062_10053_413_10050_10051,searchweb201603_1&btsid=15348886-8324-4292-b480-8646105d2036


 

 I was interested in these at $10 until I saw the shipping price to the UK - $32.


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> I'm interested in the Ting again but don't want if it if it can't beat my Astrotec Lyra on crystal clear detailing!


 
  
 I have Lyra6 and I don't know how different it sounds from non-6-Lyra but... for me Ting would not be Lyra6 details upgrade. Lyra6 has matured, full bodied presentation and soundstage distance is almost as close as in Red De'mun. Ting soundstage is further, like in Mojito. Ting is brighter than Lyra6 so yes - it sounds more crystal clear and it has very good detailing. I think you may want to have Ting if you want THAT sound but not to upgrade anything that you already have in your Lyra/Red De'mun. But once again - only if Lyra6 is not that different from non-6-Lyra.
  
 Oh, and as music4mhell said - Ting is very musical.


----------



## Tomasz2D

saoshyant said:


> For budget earphones, what would be the go to detail option? I know the RX-1 covers budget vocal, and maybe detail too. Something like the HP180 is bassy to my ears and wouldn't be suited most likely. I'd prefer something not heavy handed on the ohms.


 
  
 So you are looking for brighter earbuds I think. AudioNewbi3 has already mentioned Good Sound Gadget's BlackBud Supreme. I have their 3 times cheaper model BlackBud Color and this is the brightest earbud that I own. More balanced but also bright with good details would be Black Onyx Earbud. Both are for about 30 USD shipped. From these two I would try Black Onyx first.


----------



## Tomasz2D

mochill said:


> if you have a friend in Indonesia that can ship it for you then you can get it☺


 
 Or I have to wait until they grow and open export department (with somebody like Miss Peach as a manager)


----------



## vapman

willber said:


> I was interested in these at $10 until I saw the shipping price to the UK - $32.


 

 Weird that the UK seems to be the only place that doesn't get the free shipping offer. I could sell you mine at actual shipping cost to you. It would be under $10. PM me if you want. I do not use the T-Music enough that I can't survive a couple weeks waiting for another to show up.
  
 Is Ting Green the mini-Ting btw? I wonder if that would be a budget option for @Saoshyant. I remember asking about the mini-Ting before but I forget what answers I got, I ended up buying something else.


----------



## Willber

vapman said:


> Weird that the UK seems to be the only place that doesn't get the free shipping offer. I could sell you mine at actual shipping cost to you. It would be under $10. PM me if you want. I do not use the T-Music enough that I can't survive a couple weeks waiting for another to show up.


 
 Thanks vapman, I think I'll wait till my RX-1 arrive (hopefully within a couple of weeks) then see where I go from there. Generous offer, though.


----------



## mochill

tomasz2d said:


> mochill said:
> 
> 
> > if you have a friend in Indonesia that can ship it for you then you can get it☺
> ...


yup


----------



## vapman

I had 2 pairs of RX1, i sold one set and now i'm thinking to sell the other. If anyone wants a silver one send a PM. They are good but I still prefer the monks.


----------



## ld100

vapman said:


> I had 2 pairs of RX1, i sold one set and now i'm thinking to sell the other. If anyone wants a silver one send a PM. They are good but I still prefer the monks.




Hype train is over I guess. I am kind if puzzled as how they got rated above Snozys... They are not bad, but not that special...


----------



## raze94

ld100 said:


> Hype train is over I guess. I am kind if puzzled as how they got rated above Snozys... They are not bad, but not that special...


 

 I stopped using my monks in prefference to the RX-1. No hype for me. 
  
 IMO RX-1>Monk Plus>Fiio EM3>Apple earbuds>Fareal. I enjoy earbuds but these are not my preference for listening. Im still a full size headphone guy so I might be looking for something different in the sound of earbuds as the more seasoned earbud guys do.


----------



## Townyj

raze94 said:


> I stopped using my monks in prefference to the RX-1. No hype for me.




Havent touched my monk+ since all my other buds turned up. They are so veiled its not funny. No contest against the RX-1, easily one of the best sounding budget earbuds you can buy. With the right fit.. fit changes them dramatically.


----------



## ld100

raze94 said:


> I stopped using my monks in prefference to the RX-1. No hype for me.
> 
> IMO RX-1>Monk Plus>Fiio EM3>Apple earbuds>Fareal. I enjoy earbuds but these are not my preference for listening. Im still a full size headphone guy so I might be looking for something different in the sound of earbuds as the more seasoned earbud guys do.




I personally like them more than Monks. What I question is their rating above Cygnus....


----------



## Spider fan

ld100 said:


> I personally like them more than Monks. What I question is their rating above Cygnus....


 
 Its one man's opinion.  What is there to question?  We all hear differently and appreciate different things.  We had this discussion before in that we are just thankful he took his time to share his opinion of his large collection with us.


----------



## raze94

ld100 said:


> I personally like them more than Monks. What I question is their rating above Cygnus....


 

 Its just a rating made by an enthusiast. Everyones input has value but at times has to be taken with a grain of salt. We shouldn't put reviewers in such a high pedestal and just decide for ourselves. I guess your use of the word "hype" threw me off. My experience with reviewed products have been hit and miss. I would say its been 50/50 coming from direct communications with the reviewers. As the saying goes "YMMV".


----------



## Spider fan

The "Hype" was caused alot by the price and the possible value which came true.  The VX Pro got put higher than the Cygnus too but it cost like $70.   I think only Golov bought it so far and he buys basically everything anyways.  
  
 I agree the Cygnus is better than the RX1.  Opinions just needed to be given without criticizing other people opinions.  The list has already been pulled before right after a couple people came in saying there was no way an earbud should be on the list after they used the list to decide to buy something.


----------



## vapman

I would still recommend it to people wanting that sort of signature for the price it's at. There is not much that competes with it for even double its price. It's still not my sound though, or i would be using it and not the monks.


----------



## raze94

My EDC.


----------



## Spider fan

raze94 said:


> My EDC.


 

 Mazinger Z theme song was the first record I ever bought.  American version one side and Japanese on the other.


----------



## ld100

spider fan said:


> Its one man's opinion.  What is there to question?  We all hear differently and appreciate different things.  We had this discussion before in that we are just thankful he took his time to share his opinion of his large collection with us.


 
  
 Absolutely. There is no need to get hyper about my opinion or his. And there is certainly much more weight to his opinion over mine. I certainly mean no disrespect to him or anyone else. But why can't I question his or anyone else's opinion? Not sure what I wrote that justifies your kind of tone Spider fan. If you want to explain in a polite and civilized manner I would appreciate it.
  
 In any way I need to understand this at least for myself. I am now thinking that this difference in opinions comes from the difference in music that I listen to and he listens. Maybe my set up... And the reason why I need to know is that IF I decide to go further and spend 2+ bills for Rose Mojito I want to make sure that I can trust and rely opinions of others...


----------



## ld100

raze94 said:


> Its just a rating made by an enthusiast. Everyones input has value but at times has to be taken with a grain of salt. We shouldn't put reviewers in such a high pedestal and just decide for ourselves. I guess your use of the word "hype" threw me off. My experience with reviewed products have been hit and miss. I would say its been 50/50 coming from direct communications with the reviewers. As the saying goes "YMMV".


 
  
 Everyone loved them when they started to arrive. Few pages back there was 'hype' about them. Now enthusiasm seems to cool down based on the last few posts. At least that's how it seems to me...


----------



## ld100

spider fan said:


> The "Hype" was caused alot by the price and the possible value which came true.  The VX Pro got put higher than the Cygnus too but it cost like $70.   I think only Golov bought it so far and he buys basically everything anyways.
> 
> I agree the Cygnus is better than the RX1.  Opinions just needed to be given without criticizing other people opinions.  The list has already been pulled before right after a couple people came in saying there was no way an earbud should be on the list after they used the list to decide to buy something.


 
  
 I used the word "question". Questioning is not criticizing in my book. There was nothing negative on my post towards ClieOS. I am just questioning why he rated them so high. Nothing wrong with questioning... They are right below Mojito's. I am very intrigued by Mojito. I do not mind paying 20 bucks to try RX-1... Paying considerably more for Rose and not finding them to be superior to Cygnus would be very disappointing to me... So I need to understand how RX-1 got better review than Cygnus. I hope I made myself clear. There is absolutely no bad intention on my part towards anyone or anyones opinion here.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I don't know if this is just me, but the soundstage has really opened up on the Cygnus after a lot of burn-in. It's really quite good now. I can hear instrument seperation and background vs foreground so clearly.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

ld100 said:


> I used the word "question". Questioning is not criticizing in my book. There was nothing negative on my post towards ClieOS. I am just questioning why he rated them so high. Nothing wrong with questioning... They are right below Mojito's. I am very intrigued by Mojito. I do not mind paying 20 bucks to try RX-1... Paying considerably more for Rose and not finding them to be superior to Cygnus would be very disappointing to me... So I need to understand how RX-1 got better review than Cygnus. I hope I made myself clear. There is absolutely no bad intention on my part towards anyone or anyones opinion here.


 
 Mojito are no doubt better than Cygnus, but they are different sound signatures. Mojito is analytical/cold/digital sounding while Cygnus is mid-centric/analog sounding. Both are great buds that I will never sell.


----------



## fairx

I'm still using my RX-1. Although I don't have a Cygnus, everyone that I loaned RX-1 saying that it had a special "air". not airy highs. Just air wave From big speaker like in live gig. I guess that must be special. Not hype for me IMHO


----------



## justvinh

The cygnus out of my Iphone 6 is just great, the tonality is very smooth and detailed. It is suitable for a wide range of genres, I prefer using full foam on them for the fit and more sub bass which is great for trances and hip-hop.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Cygnus is probably the best all-rounder in my opinion


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> Cygnus is probably the best all-rounder in my opinion


 

 In its price range, I have to agree. In the lower price range, Monk Plus or death IMO. There's a reason I buy them in every color they come out with...
  
 Speaking of which. My OG monks and all non-MD Red monk+'s weigh the same amount. But.... the the MD red ones weigh just a bit less.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> In its price range, I have to agree. In the lower price range, Monk Plus or death IMO. There's a reason I buy them in every color they come out with...
> 
> Speaking of which. My OG monks and all non-MD Red monk+'s weigh the same amount. But.... the the MD red ones weigh just a bit less.


 
 If the Sennheiser HD600's offer the best price to quality ratio, in the earbud world the same thing would be the Monks.


----------



## music4mhell

tayyab pirzada said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > In its price range, I have to agree. In the lower price range, Monk Plus or death IMO. There's a reason I buy them in every color they come out with...
> ...


 
 Monk+ IMHO not the Monk


----------



## raze94

tayyab pirzada said:


> If the Sennheiser HD600's offer the best price to quality ratio, in the earbud world the same thing would be the Monks.


 

 Price to performance ratio i would say a more fitting comparison would be to the he400s. For sound quality and tone though I would compare the Monks to the Grado sr325e and the rx-1 to the hd600.


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> In its price range, I have to agree. In the lower price range, Monk Plus or death IMO. There's a reason I buy them in every color they come out with...
> 
> Speaking of which. My OG monks and all non-MD Red monk+'s weigh the same amount. But.... the the MD red ones weigh just a bit less.


 


 You should try a pair of $5 TY Hi-Z HP-32!


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

My opinion:
  
 Monk > Ti Hi-Z 32 > Monk +


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

danneq said:


> You should try a pair of $5 TY Hi-Z HP-32!


 
 I notice you collect DAP's. Is that really a worthy pursuit? DAP's can get quite expensive. Wouldnt it make more sense to collect amps/headphones?


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> I notice you collect DAP's. Is that really a worthy pursuit? DAP's can get quite expensive. Wouldnt it make more sense to collect amps/headphones?


 

 Depends on your purposes, needs, and desires.
  
 I can find a DAP works better than most other setups for me when I'm not doing stuff that requires power. A lot of DAPs have ways of making lossy MP3s sound much better than they should, and certainly much better than on analytical DACs. which is what most USB ones seem to strive for.
  
 If I need serious bass force then I will get an amp in the mix, but again, sometimes from a DAP.
  
 Most listening still happens with a USB DAC with a linear regulted power supply..


----------



## Tomasz2D

Rose Mojito - great sound, low quality build for about 200 USD. Cannot push the plug to the end into left earbud. It is unsecured and prone to breakage left like this.


----------



## music4mhell

tomasz2d said:


> Rose Mojito - great sound, low quality build for about 200 USD. Cannot push the plug to the end into left earbud. It is unsecured and prone to breakage left like this.


 
 The L marking on left sid eis not visible like the R marking, please check if you have put the L marking inwards.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

tomasz2d said:


> Rose Mojito - great sound, low quality build for about 200 USD. Cannot push the plug to the end into left earbud. It is unsecured and prone to breakage left like this.


 
 same for me. cant push the plug fully. also be careful not to touch the "rose" wording or it may get smudged off as it did for me.


----------



## Danneq

tayyab pirzada said:


> I notice you collect DAP's. Is that really a worthy pursuit? DAP's can get quite expensive. Wouldnt it make more sense to collect amps/headphones?


 

 Sorry for the OT

 Vintage DAPs can be cheap. You can get a Creative Zen Touch for something like $20-30. Then it's very easy to change from HDD to flash memory with an adapter. With the right firmware (1.00.06) you can EQ the Zen Touch to sound VERY good. I have never heard harder hitting bass from a DAP than Zen Touch with bass EQ'd up a bit.

 If you use original firmware, you are of course limited when it comes to codecs. Some might play ogg, but mostly the only option is MP3. If you want lossless then Wav is the only opition. For me, MP3 @320 kbps or VBR0 is transparent when I listen with earphones (on a stereo with speakers it might be different, though).

 Usually I prefer older DAPs where Rockbox can be installed. It's the best firmware for a DAP that I've come across which allows the user to make just about any change they want.

 But mainly my hobby of collecting older DAPs is just a hobby. It's cool to see how technical development slowly advances, and sometimes you can be surprised of just how good older DAPs can sound. For pure MP3 playback I do not think that any current audiophile DAP can beat Kenwood HD60GD9. Just an amazing organic and analogue but still detailed sound. Which is why I paid over 30 000 yen for one when I last went to Japan...


----------



## Tomasz2D

music4mhell said:


> The L marking on left sid eis not visible like the R marking, please check if you have put the L marking inwards.


 
  
 Already checked with both cables and both terminations. This is a problem with "blue" earbud socket". Very disappointing for hand made work. Thay should really work on "hand made" quality control.
  


tayyab pirzada said:


> same for me. cant push the plug fully. also be careful not to touch the "rose" wording or it may get smudged off as it did for me.


 
  
 This is unacceptable for me. I am trying to exchange left earbud. Let's see if I succeed.


----------



## Townyj

tayyab pirzada said:


> same for me. cant push the plug fully. also be careful not to touch the "rose" wording or it may get smudged off as it did for me.




Lol your kidding right? Those buds are $300 for me.. hell no would i pay for that kind of finish. Plugs dont align.. wording rubs off. Ridiculous. Thanks for mentioning these faults  saved me quite alot of cash.


----------



## music4mhell

tayyab pirzada said:


> tomasz2d said:
> 
> 
> > Rose Mojito - great sound, low quality build for about 200 USD. Cannot push the plug to the end into left earbud. It is unsecured and prone to breakage left like this.
> ...


 
 Lucky me, mine is working fine, no issue


----------



## vapman

Nothing new to add here, part of the reason i soldthem is for all those reasons.
  
 the red blue old design also looked like it was 1 layer of paint on each bud, lol. paint on the metal and everything.... sounded like heaven but looked like a hazardous toy


----------



## nudd

vapman said:


> Nothing new to add here, part of the reason i soldthem is for all those reasons.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


But they look so beautiful on the webpage, I was very tempted to pull the trigger on one ...


----------



## mebaali

With just over 12 hours of usage, RX1's overall clarity (a quality for which I am a sucker for, in my audio gears) has only appeared to have improved (for my ears/gears/musical preferences + possible brain burn-in). These fits/sits perfectly for my inner ear shape, no pain/discomfort (a common problem that I used to encounter with earbuds) even after 2 hours of continuous use. I am highly satisfied with this purchase.
  
 This is how I would rate them (from my very small collection of earbuds) RX1 > Philips SHE3800 > TY HI-Z 32 > Monk > Philips SHE 1360


----------



## tommo21

mebaali said:


> With just over 12 hours of usage, RX1's overall clarity (a quality for which I am a sucker for, in my audio gears) has only appeared to have improved (for my ears/gears/musical preferences + possible brain burn-in). These fits/sits perfectly for my inner ear shape, no pain/discomfort (a common problem that I used to encounter with earbuds) even after 2 hours of continuous use. I am highly satisfied with this purchase.
> 
> This is how I would rate them (from my very small collection of earbuds) RX1 > Philips SHE3800 > TY HI-Z 32 > Monk > Philips SHE 1360


 
  
 I'm a bit underwhelmed at the moment with the RX-1, but they've just got 2-3 hours burn-in yet. Hope they do get better.
  
 I do have the Rose Mojito as well, and the buildquality on mine sems good. On the other hand I can't get them to fit on my right ear, so I'll probably move them on. They are very large buds... RX-1 are smallish but good fit, and Monk + style fit me perfect.


----------



## golov17

nudd said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > Nothing new to add here, part of the reason i soldthem is for all those reasons.
> ...


what you whining? excellent earbuds for their price, lol


----------



## luedriver

I watched 2 blu-ray movies yesterday with my T-music, a cheap movie and cgi movie, I used them with ps3 analog output hooked to my kenwood ax-31 stereo amp and boosted the bass to 10, even with that bass I could watch the movie like normal, I think they marketed these wrong, they shouldn't say "noise cancelling earbuds" they should of called these "movie bass earbuds"
  
 but still even with all that bass in scenes, voices were nice and clear, I didn't have the same felling of imagining as I did with the rx-1's, but I can't say they lack in soundstage
  
 the donuts foams they came with are a bit rough, other donut foams that I have from ty or monk felt way smoother, but after 3 hours, the size of the mx500 shell with dounts were too much for my ears, and took the foams off,
  
 I kinda wish the mx500 shell wasn't as popular as it is, the shell on my she3800 feel way smaller and perhaps seal a bit better, but it might have a smaller driver, idk, I'm hoping the size of the cygnus are less fatiguing as everyone here has mentioned, weird how the yuing/cygnus shell isn't more popular than the mx500 shell


----------



## nudd

golov17 said:


> what you whining? excellent earbuds for their price, lol




So you dont agree with the build quality concerns? I am really keen to get a pair!


----------



## Willber

> Originally Posted by *luedriver* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> other donut foams that I have from ty or monk felt way smoother, but after 3 hours, the size of the mx500 shell with dounts were too much for my ears, and took the foams off,
> 
> I kinda wish the mx500 shell wasn't as popular as it is, the shell on my she3800 feel way smaller and perhaps seal a bit better, but it might have a smaller driver, idk, I'm hoping the size of the cygnus are less fatiguing as everyone here has mentioned, weird how the yuing/cygnus shell isn't more popular than the mx500 shell


 
 I also find the Hi-Z 32 and Monk+ donuts to be high quality (the former are slightly thinner) and both comfortable. However, the MX500 shell seems to be a touch on the large side for long sessions which is one of the reasons I've gone for the RX-1. Currently I find the SQ of the Hi-Z better overall than Monk+ but I hope the RX-1 will top them in both comfort and SQ when they arrive.


----------



## golov17

nudd said:


> So you dont agree with the build quality concerns? I am really keen to get a pair!


no any problem


----------



## Tomasz2D

OK, so my short take on *Rose Mojito*. For me this is the special ability earbud. When I listen to my favorite music, the music I know very well, I recognize immediately that a lot of things are not right. The soundstage is not right (yes, I am teleported to that big stadium gig - the same as in DIY Dual Drivers) and a lot of colorization is going on with musical instruments and the tonal balance is not right (thin sounding mds) but...
  
 Yes, on the other hand Rose Mojito has this exeptional sound scene imaging, revealing a lot of details. It sounds great for all light genres like orchestral work and electronica, lighter jazz but I do not like it for heavier music like rock.
  
 Next, my short take on *Red De'mun*. Do you remember vapman praising them so offten, starting with this post here?
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/5580#post_12673694
  
 So this is real thing. The one thing to remember is that vapman mixed up all the time Red De'mun with Edimun but in fact he has Red De'mun and Edimun is from different creator.
  
 So I got Red De'mun (but never heard Edimun) and first off - for about 90 USD shipped I immediately jumped into Astrotec Lyra6 / Sennheiser MX 985 sound quality level and the price level which starts from 150 USD. And there is a good reason I mention MX 985 here - Red De'mun is closest to MX 985 sound from all earbuds that I have heard and maybe, just maybe, Red De'mun is better (what a blasphemy - I am just affraid to write it). 
  
 Few more things to know about Red De'mon:
 1. Build quality is top notch but the cable is thick and stiff - can be a problem on the go.
 2. Red De'mon has this direct sound reproduction, presenting music as is. You will not find here "fun", airness, liquid mids, 3D broad soundstage or other qualities associated usually with earbuds.


----------



## music4mhell

I am back to Zen 2 again  Please don't hit me


----------



## Saoshyant

I really do want to like the Red Demun, but man that cable is a pain.  I don't find the ear fins comfortable, but it's the only way they will stay in.


----------



## luedriver

listening to senn's mx170's monk+ foams and 10 bass to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvKHjTIjiFM&feature=youtu.be&t=2m49s&ab_channel=PulsarRecordings
  
 idk what say, they are just not what I expected from a earbud that was on sale over half price, they're not as bassy as t-music, but its there hitting the center of my head, (+10 bass to thank) and soundstage and the feeling of bigger headphones, if they were more comfortable, I probably use them more often
  
 I'm also using the 75 ohm adapter, a bit of A/Bing revels no change not even a lower of volume, still using it, just because
  
  
 these "reviews" opinions, always take them with a pinch of salt, I get easily exited, and sometimes exaggerate things, I just want to give my 2 cents on earbuds, that may or may not be helpful, I want to think of my self as being able to hear differences in the sound, but just not able to describe accurately what I am hearing
  
 edit- the sennheiser mx170's are no longer sold where I bought them from


----------



## mebaali

tommo21 said:


> I'm a bit underwhelmed at the moment with the RX-1, but they've just got 2-3 hours burn-in yet. Hope they do get better.


 
 Kinda agree!
  
 RX1 sound signature and overall presentation may not produce immediate WOW factor for all kinds of genre/styles of music. I mainly use it to listen to vocal-centric music of 80's from Tamil language feature films that could be one of the reason for me liking these, OOTB.
  
 For modern music (again Tamil language), I prefer Philips SHE3800 (more fun sounding).


----------



## music4mhell

mebaali said:


> tommo21 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a bit underwhelmed at the moment with the RX-1, but they've just got 2-3 hours burn-in yet. Hope they do get better.
> ...


 
 Philips SHE3800 is an earbud ? Link to buy please .


----------



## mebaali

music4mhell said:


> Philips SHE3800 is an earbud ? Link to buy please .


 
 Yes, these are earbuds (has got the shells like Edifier H180). I doubt they are from original Philips brand, though. Build quality (and QC in general) is not very promising, nevertheless, the pair that I have received sounds extremely good for all kinds of music genres that I throw at them (has got V shaped sound signature yet still seems sounding very balanced across frequencies and are quite comfortable for my ears).
  
 BTW, this is where I bought them from https://www.fasttech.com/product/1460600-philips-she3800-3-5mm-earphone (got to know about these, thanks to our resident earbuds aficionado @golov17 )
  
 Cheers!


----------



## 93EXCivic

Ordered the T-Musics. Have Monk+ on the way.
  
 Probably going to order Ty Hi-Z 32 ohm later this month.
  
 Trying to decide if I want to grab Musicmaker Tonekings or Seahf LD-3.0 150ohm.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tayyab pirzada said:


> I don't know if this is just me, but the soundstage has really opened up on the Cygnus after a lot of burn-in. It's really quite good now. I can hear instrument seperation and background vs foreground so clearly.


 
 Yup, this is very normal. After 200 Hours of burn in on my Cygnus, separation and details are way way better than zero burn in time.The mids really opened up and sounded significantly less congested. 
  


tayyab pirzada said:


> Cygnus is probably the best all-rounder in my opinion


 
 Hmm, for modern music like pop or hip hop or rnd, I would say Cygnus. But for me currently, I may still say that the Tomahawks, Monk, or the TY Hi-z is good all-rounders, with Tomahawks being my all-rounders.
  
 But.....a very big but, now I seldom use any of those all rounder earbuds. It's been fulltime Mojito and part time RX-1 (Checking burn in progress) for me as my music collection only consists of orchestral, jazz, and piano works. 
  


tomasz2d said:


> Rose Mojito - great sound, low quality build for about 200 USD. Cannot push the plug to the end into left earbud. It is unsecured and prone to breakage left like this.


 
 Try prying the pins apart or push them closer until you get a fit. I did not have an issue with my pair. Kindly make sure L and R markings are facing outwards.
  


tayyab pirzada said:


> same for me. cant push the plug fully. also be careful not to touch the "rose" wording or it may get smudged off as it did for me.


 
 How did you manage to smudged them? I have been using and not to mention cleaning mine frequently with rubbing alcohol and the wording is still there.
  


danneq said:


> Sorry for the OT
> 
> Vintage DAPs can be cheap. You can get a Creative Zen Touch for something like $20-30. Then it's very easy to change from HDD to flash memory with an adapter. With the right firmware (1.00.06) you can EQ the Zen Touch to sound VERY good. I have never heard harder hitting bass from a DAP than Zen Touch with bass EQ'd up a bit.
> 
> ...


 
 How about JVC/Victor Alneo? Are they good? Kenwood MP3 Players are just soooo expensive even on Taobao.......


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Okay peeps, regarding Rose Technology's new and upcoming earbud Masya, there were some information which I have obtained after chatting with the owner of Rose.
  
 The Masya is not meant to be a flagship earbud (which I think I mistaken mentioned them for)
 The Masya is deemed to be a vocal earbud with better bass and a lusher mids
 The Masya is less suitable for instrument
 The Masya has a smaller soundstage than the Mojito's
  
 For those of you who can read Chinese:


----------



## kinetic758

tomasz2d said:


> Already checked with both cables and both terminations. This is a problem with "blue" earbud socket". Very disappointing for hand made work. Thay should really work on "hand made" quality control.
> 
> 
> This is unacceptable for me. I am trying to exchange left earbud. Let's see if I succeed.




Where did you get them from? I had an issue with one of my Mojitos rattling and sent them back for a new pair. I got them from Penon. 

In addition to that, the build quality was more homemade rather than handmade. If this new pair (supposedly inspected by Rose) has issues as well, then I'm pretty sure I'm done with this brand.


----------



## kinetic758

tomasz2d said:


> OK, so my short take on *Rose Mojito*. For me this is the special ability earbud. When I listen to my favorite music, the music I know very well, I recognize immediately that a lot of things are not right. The soundstage is not right (yes, I am teleported to that big stadium gig - the same as in DIY Dual Drivers) and a lot of colorization is going on with musical instruments and the tonal balance is not right (thin sounding mds) but...
> 
> Yes, on the other hand Rose Mojito has this exeptional sound scene imaging, revealing a lot of details. It sounds great for all light genres like orchestral work and electronica, lighter jazz but I do not like it for heavier music like rock.
> 
> ...




Wow. May have to look into this one. Is this the earbud that can only be requested through Facebook (I'm not subscribed)? 

Also, do you have issues with the earbuds staying in because of the thick cable?


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> How about JVC/Victor Alneo? Are they good? Kenwood MP3 Players are just soooo expensive even on Taobao.......


 

 Just go to the source. Like Yahoo auction. But there you will find that Victor MP3 players are more expensive than Kenwood flash MP3 players. But Kenwood HDD MP3 players are the most expensive. They are more expensive than other brands, but I still think it can be worth the money.

 I like the Alneo line of MP3 players but storage space is limited. Their HDD players were small (I think 6GB microdrive was the biggest size). For their flash players 8GB was the biggest size and there was no memory expansion slot.


----------



## Frederick Wang

Absolutely agree with you on Rose Mojito
  
 Quote:


tomasz2d said:


> OK, so my short take on *Rose Mojito*. For me this is the special ability earbud. When I listen to my favorite music, the music I know very well, I recognize immediately that a lot of things are not right. The soundstage is not right (yes, I am teleported to that big stadium gig - the same as in DIY Dual Drivers) and a lot of colorization is going on with musical instruments and the tonal balance is not right (thin sounding mds) but...
> 
> Yes, on the other hand Rose Mojito has this exeptional sound scene imaging, revealing a lot of details. It sounds great for all light genres like orchestral work and electronica, lighter jazz but I do not like it for heavier music like rock.


----------



## music4mhell

audionewbi3 said:


> Okay peeps, regarding Rose Technology's new and upcoming earbud Masya, there were some information which I have obtained after chatting with the owner of Rose.
> 
> The Masya is not meant to be a flagship earbud (which I think I mistaken mentioned them for)
> The Masya is deemed to be a vocal earbud with better bass and a lusher mids
> ...


 
 I will buy


----------



## music4mhell

mebaali said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Philips SHE3800 is an earbud ? Link to buy please .
> ...


 
 Thanks,
 I have ordered some Earbuds with Mic from Aliexpress, let see how they perform against Remax


----------



## Tomasz2D

kinetic758 said:


> Where did you get them from? I had an issue with one of my Mojitos rattling and sent them back for a new pair. I got them from Penon.


 
  
  
 I got them via AE from HCK but I don't see here any seller fault. The box was sealed with foil and seemed to be intact. Already contacted HCK and so far they are trying to be helpfull. Let's see how it ends up.
  


kinetic758 said:


> Wow. May have to look into this one. Is this the earbud that can only be requested through Facebook (I'm not subscribed)?
> 
> Also, do you have issues with the earbuds staying in because of the thick cable?


 
  
 I have contacted him via Facebook but he prefered e-mail contact so we have quickly swiched to e-mail. I can PM you his e-mail if you want.or read this:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/5640#post_12675176
  
 He will send you PayPal invoice for payment. I wish he could find cheaper shipping method because he insists on EMS which is quick (7 days to Poland) but not that cheap. With cheaper delivery method it would be real value hit.
  
 As for cable - it helps a lot to use cable fastener and to wear it hat style  When it is fastened like on the picture below I have no problems at all - they stay in my ears. But it also depends on personal fit so better think of it as a potential problem.


----------



## kinetic758

tomasz2d said:


> I got them via AE from HCK but I don't see here any seller fault. The box was sealed with foil and seemed to be intact. Already contacted HCK and so far they are trying to be helpfull. Let's see how it ends up.
> 
> 
> I have contacted him via Facebook but he prefered e-mail contact so we have quickly swiched to e-mail. I can PM you his e-mail if you want.or read this:
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for this!  Please PM me his email.  Yes, that shipping fee is steep!


----------



## Frederick Wang

I wonder if someone who have both Edimun V3 and Red De'mun can give a brief comparison between the two?
 Thanks


----------



## vapman

nudd said:


> So you dont agree with the build quality concerns? I am really keen to get a pair!




I was talking about the build quality o the old Mojito. I have never seen the new version which is what most people here including golov17 has.

The old red blue model I used to have is the same as clieos' on front page.


----------



## jamesbdh

tayyab pirzada said:


> My opinion:
> 
> Monk > Ti Hi-Z 32 > Monk +


 
 So I have not done it for myself and I was stuck at work so I did this for myself but thought I would share.  This is my opinion only and not "facts".  As a point of reference my favorite sound is an HD600 through a little dot MK3 tube amp.  I wish it extended a bit deeper in bass but the detail and smoothness is for me.
  

 I compared the e600, monk+, TY Hi-Z HP32, rx1.  I did it through my phone(HTC m8) first but this is through the dragonfly black just to make sure there were no power/amp issues.  These are songs that I use to test most of my headphones so I know them well.  the order that I tried them was e600->monk+->Ty Hi-Z HP32->Rx1 so that I mixed up the strengths and didn't get "numb".  All with no eq and no foam.
  
  
 Corinne Rae - Trouble Sleeping (Female Vocals)
      E660 - good bass but does not interfere.  Clear vocals and back up singers detailed but still harmonize.  Good detail in the highs.
      Monk+ -  bass is there but seems detail focus not impact focus.  Corrine more centered with harmony being a bit more separated but not distracting.  Highs feel just a step below vocals and can get lost.
     TY Hi-Z HP32- bass seems to bleed a bit into the vocals and seems "blended" vocals seems to have great details separately but blend together more.  highs present and detailed

     RX1 - Vocals... "no" bass just the indication that they are there in the song.  detailed highs... saxophone really comes out with this.
  

 I switched the order the E600 and Ty Hi-Z HP32 are too similar to have that separated for me.
  

 Commodores - Easy (male vocals)
    RX1- Highs and Vocals.  every thing is represented with details.  Vocals nicely separated
    Monk + - Brought back that bass detail.  Vocals separated and clear.  highs clear
    TY Hi-Z HP32 - Bass with some good impact.  Feels like the mids are behind the bass and highs present in line with the vocals

    E600 - Bass more in line with vocals highs also feel more balanced with good details
  

 James Blake - The Wilhelm Scream (separation)

   E600 - Good separation feels natural but not very wide. sound drifts naturally off

   TY Hi-Z HP32 - feels very narrow not timed right( not sure how to describe it)

   Monk + - Similar to the Ty Hi-Z HP32

   RX1 - Widest separation but not crazy separated.  Rolls off nicely
  
  
 ZZ Top - Sharp Dressed man (Rock)

   RX1 - Nice soundstage and details on the guitar.  Male vocal feels hollow.  No congestion.

   Monk + - More rounded sound but feels like the details are lost more on guitar.  Vocals feel fuller and less soundstage

   TY Hi-Z HP32 - Bass impact, good solid sound.  Feels a bit congested and details get a bit lost in parts of the song.

   E600 - better sound stage than the Ty Hi-Z HP32. a bit more balanced with mids being there.  Details not as great for guitar but a bit better than Ty Hi-Z HP32
  

 Sukh Knight - Diesel not Petrol (BASS)
   E600 - Nice clean impactful bass that fades off nicely with an air to it.  muddy "sub bass"
   Ty Hi-Z HP32 - ... there is that sub bass. This is what this is for
   Monk + - detailed.  Oddly there was one drum that had really great impact but it felt out of place.  very "detailed" but not full bass
   RX1 - Sounds like the bass has a sore throat and just coughs the beat.  it is all there but like Airy.
  

 Darius Rucker - Wagon Wheel (Multiple vocal harmony)
   RX1 - Each singer is distinct.  Great sounding vocals.  Banjo sounds great.
   Monk + - Female vocal is separate but male voice sometimes gets mixed.  better balance
   Ty Hi-Z HP32 - No real separation on the vocals.  Can here the differences but not where they sing the same
   E600 - The male vocals seems more separated than the female voices.  still blended together a bit more.
  

 Overall impressions
 Darkest -> Brightest
 Ty Hi-Z HP32->E600->Monk+->RX1
  

 Increasing Detail
 Ty Hi-Z HP32->Monk+~~E600->Rx1
  

 Unbalance to Balanced
 RX1->Ty Hi-Z HP32->Monk+->E600
  

 Bass Extension worst to best
 RX1->Monk+->E600->Ty Hi-Z HP32
  

 Trebble extension worst to best
 Ty Hi-Z HP32->E600->Monk+->RX1
  

 Mids worst to best
 Ty Hi-Z HP32->Monk +->E600->RX1
  

 If you want to analyze vocals and details... RX1
 if you want to have bass extension.... Ty Hi-Z HP32
 the compromise between those two is monk+ and E600 but I feel that E600 is the better compromise for me.
  

 Not sound related but I found it interesting, the Ty Hi-Z HP32 are reverse polarized.  The earbuds stick to all the other earbuds while the others all repel each other.
 the others all repel each other.


----------



## vapman

If anyone has a spare Hi-Z 32 they don't want, i'd pick it up, or trade a Monk for one. curious to hear how they sound.


----------



## Willber

> _Group review_


 
 Thanks James, that is useful to me. Just for clarity, I presume TiHZ is the TY Hi-Z?


----------



## jamesbdh

TY Hi-Z HP32 is correct.  Sorry for that.


----------



## Willber

Thanks, good review.


----------



## MisterMudd

willber said:


> Thanks, good review.




+1


----------



## ld100

RX-1 for today...


----------



## Fabi

TY Hi-Z HP32 with Monk+ foams is my favorite atm.
But other contenders are coming in the mail


----------



## vapman

All this TY Hi-Z 32 hype.... do they really sound like the original Monk or something different still?


----------



## jamesbdh

vapman said:


> All this TY Hi-Z 32 hype.... do they really sound like the original Monk or something different still?


 
 I have both.  Will compare tomorrow but not sure if you share my sig
  
 I also have Remax 303 and eidifer H180P if anyone wants that compared to something I have listed let me know.


----------



## gwompki

Thanks for the nice review James. Wish I had managed to get a pair of the TY HiZ 32 before Penon sold out. I will definitely be picking up the new version when it becomes available from penon.


----------



## istlove

I prefer ty hi-z 32 to monk+.
Monk>ty 32>monk+


----------



## audio123

istlove said:


> I prefer ty hi-z 32 to monk+.
> Monk>ty 32>monk+


yes finally someone agrees with me


----------



## Blueshound24

jamesbdh said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > All this TY Hi-Z 32 hype.... do they really sound like the original Monk or something different still?
> ...


 
  
 Could anyone chime in how the Edifier H180P compares to the P185 and P190?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I realized what I was doing wrong. I was using Zen 2 without an amp with my AK Jr. It just sounded ok but not anything amazing. I tried it on my tube amp just now and...
  
  
 ....WOW! ZEN 2 IS ONE OF THE BEST BUDS EVER. 
  
 I would describe it as "musical".


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> I realized what I was doing wrong. I was using Zen 2 without an amp with my AK Jr. It just sounded ok but not anything amazing. I tried it on my tube amp just now and...
> 
> 
> ....WOW! ZEN 2 IS ONE OF THE BEST BUDS EVER.
> ...


 we know it ..  the question is, why did you decided to sell it?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

golov17 said:


> we know it ..  the question is, why did you decided to sell it?


 
 I thought it was overhyped and not so good. But that's because I wasn't using it with a good amp. I think I will remove my listing now.


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> I thought it was overhyped and not so good. But that's because I wasn't using it with a good amp. I think I will remove my listing now.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Wow I think I am in love with Zen 2


----------



## kinetic758

tayyab pirzada said:


> Wow I think I am in love with Zen 2




Interesting. I plan on pairing the Zen 2 Black with Mojo.


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> Wow I think I am in love with Zen 2


agree


----------



## mochill

kinetic758 said:


> tayyab pirzada said:
> 
> 
> > Wow I think I am in love with Zen 2
> ...


With ra2.0 should be better


----------



## music4mhell

kinetic758 said:


> tayyab pirzada said:
> 
> 
> > Wow I think I am in love with Zen 2
> ...


 
 Wish i had Black Zen, but that's so expensive, although this Normal Zen sounds awesome with my Mojo


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> I thought it was overhyped and not so good. But that's because I wasn't using it with a good amp. I think I will remove my listing now.


 

 Proof that good amp power can make all the difference sometimes.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Some strange observations of mine:
  
 - With my tube amp, all low-impedence buds have a lot of hiss in the background (like Mojito and Cygnus) while high-impedence buds do not (like Zen 2)
 - Rose Mojito sound super sibilant with my tube amp and sounds better without any amping in fact; and now I can tell they are pretty much only good for instrumental music, after I heard Zen 2 with my amp
 - Cygnus is the best all-rounder without amping; Zen 2 is the best all-rounder with amping
 - Zen 2 has some really impressive soundstage to my ears, especially with good recordings; Cygnus has great soundstage after burn-in


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I think my daily drivers are going to be the following:
 - With amping: Zen 2
 - Without amping: Cygnus
  
 The Mojito's have taken a backseat for now, until I want to hear nonstop instrumental and jazz.
  
 Ostry KC08 is also good for its unbelievably deep sub-bass, but I'm not really a basshead. I use these when I want a fun mood. Work great without amping.


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> Some strange observations of mine:
> 
> *- With my tube amp, all low-impedence buds have a lot of hiss in the background (like Mojito and Cygnus) while high-impedence buds do not (like Zen 2)*
> - Rose Mojito sound super sibilant with my tube amp and sounds better without any amping in fact; and now I can tell they are pretty much only good for instrumental music, after I heard Zen 2 with my amp
> ...


 
 Doesn't the Starlight have adjustable output impedance? You can use those jumpers sticking out of the sides to have the same effect as a resistance adapter. this should cut out the background hiss of more senseitive buds.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> Doesn't the Starlight have adjustable output impedance? You can use those jumpers sticking out of the sides to have the same effect as a resistance adapter. this should cut out the background hiss of more senseitive buds.


 
 oh let me try that out tomorrow


----------



## Townyj

vapman said:


> Doesn't the Starlight have adjustable output impedance? You can use those jumpers sticking out of the sides to have the same effect as a resistance adapter. this should cut out the background hiss of more senseitive buds.


 

Taken from the Garage 1217 website... "Variable output resistance, selectable from 2.5 to 70ohm"

Using your other buds with the Starlight will more then likely introduce noise more then improve the SQ. Just stick with the Zen 2 on the amp and AK Jnr with the lower impedance earbuds.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

townyj said:


> Taken from the Garage 1217 website... "Variable output resistance, selectable from 2.5 to 70ohm"
> 
> Using your other buds with the Starlight will more then likely introduce noise more then improve the SQ. Just stick with the Zen 2 on the amp and AK Jnr with the lower impedance earbuds.


 
 and what about low impedence full size cans? like say 64 ohm


----------



## Townyj

tayyab pirzada said:


> and what about low impedence full size cans? like say 64 ohm




Well 64ohm is fine just set it to the lowest output. 2.5ohm will be good for pretty much all your earbuds/headphones. Alot depends on the sensitivity aswell. Like planars etc. But seeing as your running dynamics its all good. You could swap between 2.5ohm and 70ohm when using your HD600s. See which you prefer.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

townyj said:


> Well 64ohm is fine just set it to the lowest output. 2.5ohm will be good for pretty much all your earbuds/headphones. Alot depends on the sensitivity aswell. Like planars etc. But seeing as your running dynamics its all good. You could swap between 2.5ohm and 70ohm when using your HD600s. See which you prefer.


 
 thanks for the heads up


----------



## Saoshyant

For output imp, the rough calculation is you want at least 8x on your earphones/headphones, right? I can never quite remember because it's never an issue for me.


----------



## music4mhell

saoshyant said:


> For output imp, the rough calculation is you want at least 8x on your earphones/headphones, right? I can never quite remember because it's never an issue for me.


 
 Congrats for your 3000+ posts 
 Happy Listening and Postings at Head-fi !


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

What does this 8x impedence thing mean? So if I have 64 ohm headphones, the output impedence should be 512 Ohm? Confused...


----------



## vapman

Just use the 70 ohm setting on the Starlight and you will be happy.  Even very sensitive stuff should be noise-free on the 70 ohm output resistance.


----------



## Saoshyant

Allow me to clarify.  From what I remember, the rule for output impedance for amps works like this.  Let's say you have a 16 ohm earbud, you'd want the amp to be no more than 2 ohms ideally, which is why the original output impedance of the AK100 being I think it was 64 ohms caused such issues.  There are amps that go as low as .5 ohms that I'm aware of reading about, which means a 4 ohm earphone would be fine.  This is of course assuming I'm remembering the ratio correctly, and why you're hearing a bit of hiss with the Mojito.


----------



## Townyj

saoshyant said:


> Allow me to clarify.  From what I remember, the rule for output impedance for amps works like this.  Let's say you have a 16 ohm earbud, you'd want the amp to be no more than 2 ohms ideally, which is why the original output impedance of the AK100 being I think it was 64 ohms caused such issues.  There are amps that go as low as .5 ohms that I'm aware of reading about, which means a 4 ohm earphone would be fine.  This is of course assuming I'm remembering the ratio correctly, and why you're hearing a bit of hiss with the Mojito.


 exactly.. there is no need to use 70ohms at all. Its way to high and he would be introducing un needed hiss and noise. Pretty sure the Mojo is 0.075ohms for its output and i never had one issue with hiss etc while owning it. The lower the better imo.


----------



## vapman

townyj said:


> exactly.. there is no need to use 70ohms at all. Its way to high and he would be introducing un needed hiss and noise. Pretty sure the Mojo is 0.075ohms for its output and i never had one issue with hiss etc while owning it. The lower the better imo.


 

 that is not how it works actually, sorry to say. the opposite would happen (noise and hiss would be reduced) This stuff is well documented though so there's no need to derail the topic too far on this particular subject.


----------



## Townyj

vapman said:


> that is not how it works actually, sorry to say. the opposite would happen (noise and hiss would be reduced) This stuff is well documented though so there's no need to derail the topic too far on this particular subject.




Lolwut? I am afraid your wrong..

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com.au/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html?m=1


----------



## tommo21

Well...the Mojito's have found a new owner since I couldn't get them to fit my right ear. I'm gettin VE Zen 2.0 in return, so looking forward to that.
  
 Right now I'm listening to TY Hi-Z 150Ohm's, not burned in yet, but nice deep bass and wide soundstage after an hour of listening. Have the 32ohms as well, but faulty connector on them so can't compare until I get a replacement.


----------



## vapman

tommo21 said:


> Well...the Mojito's have found a new owner since I couldn't get them to fit my right ear. I'm gettin VE Zen 2.0 in return, so looking forward to that.
> 
> Right now I'm listening to TY Hi-Z 150Ohm's, not burned in yet, but nice deep bass and wide soundstage after an hour of listening. Have the 32ohms as well, but faulty connector on them so can't compare until I get a replacement.


 

 thanks for reporting in about the Hi-Z 150, i am more and more tempted to get one for myself 
  
 i ended up preferring a well amped Zen 2 to a well amped Mojito,  so you might end up happier with the Zen 2 easily if it's closer to the sound you're after. havng heard the 400 ohm Seahf, and knowing the TY and Seahf are more or less the same, you should be very happy with the zen


----------



## Willber

vapman said:


> thanks for reporting in about the Hi-Z 150, i am more and more tempted to get one for myself


 
 I was very interested in them until audio123 steered (shoved!) me in the direction of the RX-1. I hope he's right...
 Oh well,  what's the worst that can happen?


----------



## gwompki

tommo21 said:


> Well...the Mojito's have found a new owner since I couldn't get them to fit my right ear. I'm gettin VE Zen 2.0 in return, so looking forward to that.
> 
> Right now I'm listening to TY Hi-Z 150Ohm's, not burned in yet, but nice deep bass and wide soundstage after an hour of listening. Have the 32ohms as well, but faulty connector on them so can't compare until I get a replacement.




Think you might have just sold another pair of the 150 ohm for penon.


----------



## Tomasz2D

Everybody, so what's that special about AuGlamour RX-1? Musical instruments tone, timbre and texture. Just try RX-1 with this new "Nels Cline - Lovers" album if you have access to streaming services. And then A/B compare RX-1 with Cygnus or other earbuds that you own. Also check if RX-1 has a chanse to compete with Zen 2.0 when listening to this album. I wonder what you will discover.


----------



## Fabi

mochill said:


> MAYBE THE HEAVENLY SOUND CADENZA
> 
> WWW.FACEBOOK.COM/HEAVENLYSOUNDSJKT


Eyeing the new Genesis


----------



## luedriver

jamesbdh said:


> Not sound related but I found it interesting, the Ty Hi-Z HP32 are reverse polarized.  The earbuds stick to all the other earbuds while the others all repel each other.
> the others all repel each other.


 
 mine repel each other, only stick to each other when the middle sticks to the outer edge of the other earbud at an angle, 
  
 in fact most earbuds do this even more the more time they are plugged in my stereo amp, like the magnetic force increases over time
  
 with monk plus being the most magnetic of all my earbuds


----------



## Frederick Wang

My vx pro just arrived!


----------



## Tomasz2D

frederick wang said:


> I wonder if someone who have both Edimun V3 and Red De'mun can give a brief comparison between the two?
> Thanks


 
 This: http://www.head-fi.org/t/811150/demun-bengkel-macro/135#post_12778557


----------



## Makahl

frederick wang said:


> My vx pro just arrived!


 

 Look it is a baby. Nice package. I'll wait for your impressions, sir!


----------



## Frederick Wang

tomasz2d said:


> This: http://www.head-fi.org/t/811150/demun-bengkel-macro/135#post_12778557


 
 Thanks, Tomasz2D
 But that I'm afraid is too brief to shed light on my doubts... 
 I listen to all kinds of music, but a good earphone to me must be good with classical music, clear, good separation, and a soundstage to accommodate a grand orchestra


----------



## HairyHeadMara

frederick wang said:


> My vx pro just arrived!




Mine still in China somewhere, hope I'll get them soon. Nice packaging, really like the graphic on the box.


----------



## jamesbdh

Ok so my plan was to test them all today but I think I am going to change it up after listening to a few songs I think I need to group them differently to test. 
  
 Vocals
   RX1
   Koss KSC75
   Monk+
  
 Balance/Neutral
   Monk
   E600
   H180p
   Remax 303
  
 Bass
   TiHZ 32P
   Amazon Basics
  
 Just some quick observations from today's listening so far
  
 Amazon Basics have an amazing impact.  I think it is because they are like apple earpods and direct the sound a bit more.  I would say the extension is great but maybe not as clear.  I feel that I am not the person to really rate these as I do not find them enjoyable(ie not a basshead).
  
 From my listening I think that the Monk and TiHZ do not sound similar.  The Monk does not have the bass impact that the TiHZ does and seems to focus more on the balanced with more treble extension than the TiHZ.  I would consider the TiHZ a Dark earbud and the Monk a more neutral balanced and the Monk+ as a brighter earbud.  I also think the difference is in soundstage.  the Monk is much wider(which was always one of the things I enjoyed about it), which I find much more enjoyable than the TiHZ(which is very small to me).  I also feel that the Monk is a bit more detailed but that could just be because it is brighter and tricking me.
  
 If you like Bass the TiHZ is hands down better.  If you prefer the more neutral than the Monk wins with its better soundstage and presentation. 
  
 Out of the headphones the TiHz and the amazon ones are the basshead ones.  I think if you do not care about details as much the amazon is much bassier and forceful with it. If you really like detail but not impact the Koss KSC75 have great extension/detail but it does not have that force behind it. Maybe if you messed around with the EQ it might be great.
  
 I think the Koss KSC75 is the closest to the original monk sound I have heard.  I might even say it is an upgrade with slightly more soundstage, air and detail. Besides being very balanced I think the monk soundstage is really what sets it apart from the other earbuds.
 Ok so now that the Amazon and TiHZ are out of the way I will work on the Neutral ones going back and forth.
  
 Quickly I am not going to compare the Remax 303.  I am not sure why specifically but for every song it just seems like it sounds like on the other side of tissue paper.  Not sure if it a reverb, clarity issue, extension.  The sound is balanced, the details are there from what I can hear it just sounds wrong.
  
 The monk, e600, and h180p all sound very similar except the monk just has this air and soundstage that is not found in the others.  The monk + just sounds less full and without the same soundstage.
  
 Going to take a break as getting tired of hearing the same songs over and over again.
  
 To be fair I might have to add to my preferred sound signature of smooth, neutral, natural, detailed(but not clinical), and a wide soundstage.  I have the Phillips SHP9500 that are crazy wide soundstage but that feels very artificial.  so a wide but not too wide soundstage.
  
 Anyone have recommendations for that type of earbud?


----------



## Tomasz2D

frederick wang said:


> I listen to all kinds of music, but a good earphone to me must be good with classical music, clear, good separation, and a soundstage to accommodate a grand orchestra


 
  
 I see, so how is VX Pro? Similar to Mojito?


----------



## ld100

frederick wang said:


> My vx pro just arrived!




How are they?


----------



## sharkz

I've been listening to my T-Musics for two days now and I'm really happy for the $10 I spent on them. Honestly in a lot of ways, they are superior to my PK1s that I've had for quite a few years. I guess earbud tech has progressed a decent amount since the PK1s first came out. When I got these even four years ago, they were really the only high end bud in the game.
  
 I also have some Faaeal 64 ohms that were delivered today that I will have to evaluate as well. Then some Massdrop Monk Pluses to evaluate sometime in September. Eventually I need to step up to the next range of buds in the $30-50 range. Especially since I am going to have a Shanling M5 incoming sometime in the next week or so.


----------



## mock-up

Any TY HP-400s, Dark Horse G400, Seahf LD-4.0 owners out there?


----------



## mochill

Tyhp400s I have


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

tommo21 said:


> Well...the Mojito's have found a new owner since I couldn't get them to fit my right ear. I'm gettin VE Zen 2.0 in return, so looking forward to that.
> 
> Right now I'm listening to TY Hi-Z 150Ohm's, not burned in yet, but nice deep bass and wide soundstage after an hour of listening. Have the 32ohms as well, but faulty connector on them so can't compare until I get a replacement.


 
 Zen 2 with good amping = earbud heaven. Epic soundstage, very lush and full sound. It's unlike any earbud I've ever heard.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Zen 2 out of the Project Starlight tube amp (with RCA clear-top 12AU7 tube) is basically my favourite earbud listening experience, period, now.
  
 It's perfect for jazz music, pop, hip-hop, every genre really. It has such a lush sound to it that I haven't heard in any other bud, and an immersive 3D soundstage almost comparable to the Mojito's. I think I prefer this sound signature to the Mojito's. This is my new earbud champion. It makes me feel like I'm in the music.


----------



## Frederick Wang

Ok, very early impressions with vx pro, it's definately clearer than the original monk(the only earbud i currently have), and can pick up more finer details, but soundstage-wise is not as big. Imaging is fine if u r not into orchestral music. I wouldnt draw comparisons with mojito, caz from memory, that was an earbud a level above(though not without shortcomings).

A little bit siblance was detected. Definately not for bassheads.

A very competent mid-tier, worth its asking price.

Only MHO, and please bear in mind, it has only be with me for less than 12 hours. Plugged only to my dx80


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Zen 2 has the great quality that not many buds have in making even bad recordings sound good (I'm talking 128 kbps bit rate mp3 files and such). Mojito is ruthless in that regard; bad recordings will sound ultra bad on it.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

@vapman 
  
 So it turns out my output impedence is at the lowest setting...and yet still I hear hiss with my low impedence buds and headphones...


----------



## Frederick Wang

Sir, how would you compare edimun v3 and zen 2.0 amped?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Still waiting for Edimun V3 to come in


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

@vapman
  
 I put it on high gain and the hiss is now gone for my low impedence buds. Wierd. Maybe I'm doing the opposite setting and not realizing it.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Wow...my Cygnus sounds way better amped. It seems like I am just discovering the joy of amping.


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> @vapman
> 
> I put it on high gain and the hiss is now gone for my low impedence buds. Wierd. Maybe I'm doing the opposite setting and not realizing it.


 
 It's very possible I had it set to high gain the whole time I had it and never set it back to low gain for you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Sorry about that
  
 Also it should be that you hear hiss when the output resistance is set ot the lowest (0.1 i think) and hiss should be lowest when the output resistsance is set higher (To the middle setting or 70)


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I don't know what it was but I think I solved the hiss problem. I *think* I set it to the highest output impedence (70 Ohm), and all my low and high impedence buds are working fine with it, with no hiss. Zen 2 sound same as with the amp set to low output impedence (2.5 Ohm).


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

A good tube amp makes a world of difference. It added body, soundstage, and bass to my Cygnus. I'm blown away at the sound difference.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Mojito amped doesn't actually sound so great...
  
 I think I have lost interest in Mojito since I've heard Zen 2 and Cygnus amped. Mojito is pretty much only good for instrumental music in my opinion.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Ostry KC08 amped adds bass to bass-head levels. It is skull-crushing sub-bass. And it also adds body to the "dry" mids (unamped) and makes them more forward. Ostry KC08 amped are basically perfect V-shaped earbuds, especially if you're into bass (and lots of it). Mids are very good amped and not dry at all (though not as lush sounding as Zen 2).


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

My new ranking of best earbuds:
  
 1.) Zen 2 - just a perfect earbud overall, a "lush" sound that you can't get from any other earbud with very good soundstage and satisfactory bass
 2.) Ostry KC08 - the best V-shaped earbud I have tried; unbelievably deep sub-bass for an earbud (probably as good as Seahf); very detailed treble as well; usually V-shaped (with dry and sort of recessed mids) but with a good amp, becomes U-shaped (with better more forward mids)
 3.) Shozy Cygnus - the best all-rounder; sounds really good amped, and really good un-amped; has the quality of making low-quality recordings sound good too (like Zen 2)
 4.) Rose Mojito - clinical sound, great soundstage and detailing, good for only instrumental music


----------



## rggz

tayyab pirzada said:


> A good tube amp makes a world of difference. It added body, soundstage, and bass to my Cygnus. I'm blown away at the sound difference.


 
  
 Haha, also tube rolling with 12AU7 is very entertaining, some tubes can make a better synergy than others depending on the type of sound I'm very fan of NOS Mullard for warm/full body sound and Silvania can bring dark/veiled phones more vivid in the treble. You should buy some NOS tubes on eBay/tubedepot you'll have a lot of fun.

 But I think your amp is a hybrid, there's a difference between hybrid and a true tube amp.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

rggz said:


> Haha, also tube rolling with 12AU7 is very entertaining, some tubes can make a better synergy than others depending on the type of sound I'm very fan of NOS Mullard for warm/full body sound and Silvania can bring dark/veiled phones more vivid in the treble. You should buy some NOS tubes on eBay/tubedepot you'll have a lot of fun.
> 
> But I think your amp is a hybrid, there's a difference between hybrid and a true tube amp.


 
 Yeah
  
 Any other suggestions for tubes?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I'm currently using RCA clear-top 12AU7. Ordered a NOS Telefunken 12AT7.


----------



## jrazmar

tayyab pirzada said:


> Still waiting for Edimun V3 to come in


 
  
 +1 Tayyab on the comparison amped. If the Zen is that good amped compared to Edimun V3 then my next project is to buy a powerful portable amp than go the Mojito route. Have not heard the Zen 2.0 amped from my P1. I thought the P1 is powerful enough. what do you think?


----------



## rggz

tayyab pirzada said:


> I'm currently using RCA clear-top 12AU7. Ordered a NOS Telefunken 12AT7.


 
  


tayyab pirzada said:


> Yeah
> 
> Any other suggestions for tubes?


 

 This world of the tube is big, with a lot of history and specific batches, country production, army use, although will be a good start with Mullard, Silvania, Telefunken, but make sure you're buying with the correct nomenclature 12A*X*7 A*T*7 has different applications, gains. I'm not sure about if it'll work correctly on your amp. 

 (sorry for the off-topic)


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

jrazmar said:


> +1 Tayyab on the comparison amped. If the Zen is that good amped compared to Edimun V3 then my next project is to buy a powerful portable amp than go the Mojito route. Have not heard the Zen 2.0 amped from my P1. I thought the P1 is powerful enough. what do you think?


 
 You NEED to try the Zen 2 amped. As long as its a powerful enough amp, you will noticably hear the difference. I tried Zen 2 without amp today and it sounded dull and unimpressive. I tried it with amp and I now consider it the best earbud period. Better than Mojito.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

rggz said:


> This world of the tube is big, with a lot of history and specific batches, country production, army use, although will be a good start with Mullard, Silvania, Telefunken, but make sure you're buying with the correct nomenclature 12A*X*7 A*T*7 has different applications, gains. I'm not sure about if it'll work correctly on your amp.
> 
> (sorry for the off-topic)


 
 I checked. 12AT7 will work.
  
 Any good threads on Head-Fi regarding tubes, or starter guides etc.? I'm curious.


----------



## rggz

tayyab pirzada said:


> I checked. 12AT7 will work.
> 
> Any good threads on Head-Fi regarding tubes, or starter guides etc.? I'm curious.


 

 You'll find good stuff here also search for tube rolling here on head-fi there are a lot of good threads talking about that.


----------



## jrazmar

tayyab pirzada said:


> You NEED to try the Zen 2 amped. As long as its a powerful enough amp, you will noticably hear the difference. I tried Zen 2 without amp today and it sounded dull and unimpressive. I tried it with amp and I now consider it the best earbud period. Better than Mojito.


 
  
 Thanks Tayyab. I'll start scouting for a portable yet powerful amp that can drive the Zen at its finest. I wonder if any of these would be able to do justice:
  
 Aune B1
 Headstage Arrow
 Corda Quickstep
 Bengkel Macro
 VE Runabout
  
 The last 3 may not be that slim and portable though for daily mobile usage. Sorry this is the wrong thread for this but appreciate is anyone can chime in as we speak of Zen 2.0. Thanks ahead.


----------



## mochill

VE RA plus


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

jrazmar said:


> Thanks Tayyab. I'll start scouting for a portable yet powerful amp that can drive the Zen at its finest. I wonder if any of these would be able to do justice:
> 
> Aune B1
> Headstage Arrow
> ...


 
 To be honest I don't even use Zen 2 for portable use. I just use them with my desktop amp. But I used to own a Cayin C5 and it was able to power the Zen 2 sufficiently. For whatever reason though, the Cayin C5 left me unimpressed with Zen 2. But the Project Starlight tube amp has made me get full potential out of the Zen 2 to the point that I consider them my favourite buds now.
  
 I don't know about the first 3 you listed, but I have heard good things about Bengkel Macro. And VE Runabout is supposedly tuned specifically for the Zen 2, so if you want to get the most out of them, I would probably suggest that.


----------



## jrazmar

tayyab pirzada said:


> To be honest I don't even use Zen 2 for portable use. I just use them with my desktop amp. But I used to own a Cayin C5 and it was able to power the Zen 2 sufficiently. For whatever reason though, the Cayin C5 left me unimpressed with Zen 2. But the Project Starlight tube amp has made me get full potential out of the Zen 2 to the point that I consider them my favourite buds now.
> 
> I don't know about the first 3 you listed, but I have heard good things about Bengkel Macro. And VE Runabout is supposedly tuned specifically for the Zen 2, so if you want to get the most out of them, I would probably suggest that.


 
  
 Thanks again Tayyab. I hear you.
  
  


mochill said:


> VE RA plus


 
  
 I have not read about the RA+ or any amp in general as I have tried to convince myself not to use an amp in my daily commute - too much bulk and inconvenience for my purpose. But testimonies about the Zen sounding like magic and heaven amped made me intrigued again. Focusing on the VE RA as that is from the same supplier as the Zen and made primarily for it, what's the difference between the RA+ and RA 2.0? I won't buy the RA 2.0 because of the price and the bulkiness for portable use. The RA+ is much affordable than the 2.0 but wonder why both coexist? Is one made for portability or just purely different gears at different price range and SQ?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

jrazmar said:


> Thanks again Tayyab. I hear you.
> 
> 
> 
> I have not read about the RA+ or any amp in general as I have tried to convince myself not to use an amp in my daily commute - too much bulk and inconvenience for my purpose. But testimonies about the Zen sounding like magic and heaven amped made me intrigued again. Focusing on the VE RA as that is from the same supplier as the Zen and made primarily for it, what's the difference between the RA+ and RA 2.0? I won't buy the RA 2.0 because of the price and the bulkiness for portable use. The RA+ is much affordable than the 2.0 but wonder why both coexist? Is one made for portability or just purely different gears at different price range and SQ?


 
 I wouldn't know but if portability is more of a concern for you I would probably just get the RA+. And that is also tuned specifically for the Zen 2. Trust me when I say this: you NEED to hear Zen 2 amped. Without amp, it is at the bottom of my list and I don't even want to hear them and consider Cygnus better than them. With amp, they are better than Mojito imho.


----------



## mochill

jrazmar said:


> tayyab pirzada said:
> 
> 
> > To be honest I don't even use Zen 2 for portable use. I just use them with my desktop amp. But I used to own a Cayin C5 and it was able to power the Zen 2 sufficiently. For whatever reason though, the Cayin C5 left me unimpressed with Zen 2. But the Project Starlight tube amp has made me get full potential out of the Zen 2 to the point that I consider them my favourite buds now.
> ...


ra+ is power a less powerful then the ra2 . ra2 is double the power , slightly bigger and more clean and clear and balanced.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

mochill said:


> ra+ is power a less powerful then the ra2 . ra2 is double the power , slightly bigger and more clean and clear and balanced.


 
 also RA+ only offers battery power. RA2 I think you can use on battery or keep charged with a DC outlet, like a laptop.


----------



## dearyon

Sir @Tayyab Pirzada, time to get Zen Black Edition and RA 2.0


----------



## mochill

Both can be used by battery


----------



## mochill

dearyon said:


> Sir @Tayyab Pirzada
> , time to get Zen Black Edition and RA 2.0


I say +2 on that


----------



## dearyon

tayyab pirzada said:


> also RA+ only offers battery power. RA2 I think you can use on battery or keep charged with a DC outlet, like a laptop.


 
 no RA+ could also use wall wart power supply through DC input
 and Lee stated that DC input could doubled RA+ power too


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

dearyon said:


> no RA+ could also use wall wart power supply through DC input


 
 Oh. Then it's a great deal in my opinion. Where to buy it though? I can't find it on AE.


----------



## dearyon

tayyab pirzada said:


> Oh. Then it's a great deal in my opinion. Where to buy it though? I can't find it on AE.


 
 https://www.veclan.com/
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1924356
 there or contact Lee directly


----------



## mochill

Both can be run through the dc input as well


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

In my honest opinion, Zen 2 is officially the Mojito killer (when amped).


----------



## dearyon

tayyab pirzada said:


> In my honest opinion, Zen 2 is officially the Mojito killer (when amped).


 
 now I'm curious how Zen 2 will compare with your HD600...


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

dearyon said:


> now I'm curious how Zen 2 will compare with your HD600...


 
 i will compare when i get them. ive heard they sound similar


----------



## chart54

https://world.taobao.com/item/43818254303.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.oyPp0C#detailQuote: 





dearyon said:


> https://www.veclan.com/
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1924356
> there or contact Lee directly


----------



## Tomasz2D

frederick wang said:


> I listen to all kinds of music, but a good earphone to me must be good with classical music, clear, good separation, and a soundstage to accommodate a grand orchestra


 
  
 I was thinking about it a bit and you can try AuGlamour RX-1. It is cheap enought it is save to try it. RX-1 is not about soundstage or overall balance (althought it is correct for me) but where RX-1 shines is individual instruments imaging. Their voicing. Instruments reproduction is quite faithfull but with butifully rounded edges. Soft. And yes RX-1 is fine for orchestra.


----------



## mock-up

I've just sum up all feedback on Seahf LD-4.0 400 Ohm from different users
  


> When I started listening to the Seahf LD-4.0 400 Ohm, I also noticed a smoothness which I never heard before. I wouldn´t wanna miss it now.
> 
> With the LD-4.0 400 Ohm the makers wanted a more balanced sound, and I guess that´s why in contrast to vapman´s review of the LD-3.0, _I wouldn´t say that the LD-4.0 are "bass monsters"_. Take everything I say with a grain of salt, because I have yet 3 Seahf earbuds here I haven´t listened to (one of them being the LD-3.0 400 Ohm), but I think the LD-4.0 may be the best allrounder of all. _Totally non-fatiguing, big soundstage, very analog sounding, deep reaching bass_, but not as powerful and growling as the LD-3.0 320 Ohm.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I got my Seahf LD-4.0 400 Ohm recently. It was bassy and woolen in the beginning. After some burn in it still has recessed highs. 
It's VERY dynamic, very organic, lively. Music has strong foundation. 
  
 I try it iPhone, Macbook, Hugo. So bass quality degrades appropriately but it still a lot of fun at the end of iPhone. 
  
 Clie OS rating for 400s.
  

TY (Hi-Z) HP-400s - Still keeping the overall tuning as the TY 400ohm, but with a slightly more laid back mid and therefore a more balanced presentation. Otherwise the overall quality is similar.
耳机公会 (Headphone Association) 400ohm (original) - Warmish. Bass can be overpowering sometime. Laid back mid and smooth treble.
TY (Hi-Z) 400ohm (original) - Very similar to Headphone Association 400ohm, but with a slightly smoother tuning.


----------



## Danneq

tayyab pirzada said:


> To be honest I don't even use Zen 2 for portable use. I just use them with my desktop amp. But I used to own a Cayin C5 and it was able to power the Zen 2 sufficiently. For whatever reason though, the Cayin C5 left me unimpressed with Zen 2. But the Project Starlight tube amp has made me get full potential out of the Zen 2 to the point that I consider them my favourite buds now.
> 
> I don't know about the first 3 you listed, but I have heard good things about Bengkel Macro. And VE Runabout is supposedly tuned specifically for the Zen 2, so if you want to get the most out of them, I would probably suggest that.


 


 But doesn't it defeat the purpose of the earbud format if you need special amps to make a pair of earbuds reach their potential? I used my Caying C5 and Fiio E11 portable headphone amps with Zen 2.0 and found them to be unbalanced. What I mean by unbalanced is that there was like a blanket over the highs. It's not like highs were rolled off but more like they were severely muffled. I had to EQ treble up on my DAPs with between 5 and 10 Db to get them to sound balanced. Traded the Zen 2.0 for a pair of Zen 1.0 and those gave me exactly what I wanted from the Zen 2.0.

 I prefer earbuds that do not need amping at all. I have not heard all earbuds made, but from those I have heard, Blox TM7 are the best ones with great detail and imaging and an incredible smoothness like honey.
 I just received a pair of Edimun V3 and those are amazing for the price. To me they are close to the level of Zen 1.0 or Sennheiser MX980/985 (very natural sound that might not be for everyone) with almost the same bass impact as Zen 1.0.

 But then again, people hear differently because of different preferences...


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

danneq said:


> But doesn't it defeat the purpose of the earbud format if you need special amps to make a pair of earbuds reach their potential? I used my Caying C5 and Fiio E11 portable headphone amps with Zen 2.0 and found them to be unbalanced. What I mean by unbalanced is that there was like a blanket over the highs. It's not like highs were rolled off but more like they were severely muffled. I had to EQ treble up on my DAPs with between 5 and 10 Db to get them to sound balanced. Traded the Zen 2.0 for a pair of Zen 1.0 and those gave me exactly what I wanted from the Zen 2.0.
> 
> I prefer earbuds that do not need amping at all. I have not heard all earbuds made, but from those I have heard, Blox TM7 are the best ones with great detail and imaging and an incredible smoothness like honey.
> I just received a pair of Edimun V3 and those are amazing for the price. To me they are close to the level of Zen 1.0 or Sennheiser MX980/985 (very natural sound that might not be for everyone) with almost the same bass impact as Zen 1.0.
> ...


 
 Perhaps the amp in question has a lot to do with it. I was thoroughly unimpressed with the Zen 2 with Cayin C5, but love them with the Project Starlight tube amp.
  
 I wish I could find TM7 for sale somewhere. 
  
 I am still waiting for Edimun V3 to come in the mail.
  
 And yes, I suppose earbuds should do well without being amped. But I don't mind too much because I have a good desktop setup going on, where I study for long hours (and hence listen to music at the same time).


----------



## Danneq

I think you will be impressed by Edimun V3. They have taken a simple and good sounding cheap earbud and made it sound like a $100-150 earbud. Not the best ones around but definitely in the top line of earbuds. However, I agree with others who complain about the stiffness of the cable.

 BTW, I ordered a pair of Mojito. Mostly because I am curious to see if it can beat Aiwa HP D9 when it comes to size of the soundstage. Also, I do not mind cold sounding earbuds. I love Tomahawk which is cold and "metallic" sounding. I like Ting as well, which is better technically than Tomahawk and has got the same sort of cold sound.


----------



## Danneq

Also, I am curious about VE Nirvana and if that one can beat all other earbuds around. And I'm hoping for Blox to finally finish their new flagship earbud. Those two might come in at the very top of earbud lists...


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> But doesn't it defeat the purpose of the earbud format if you need special amps to make a pair of earbuds reach their potential?


 
  
 I think this is how it used to be in the past. In 2016 earbuds reached the level when they can be considered as equivalent to over-ear headphones and earbuds can be choosen also for stationary listening sessions over headphones - even just for better comfort or special earbuds sound qualities that headphones are missing.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> I think you will be impressed by Edimun V3. They have taken a simple and good sounding cheap earbud and made it sound like a $100-150 earbud. Not the best ones around but definitely in the top line of earbuds. However, I agree with others who complain about the stiffness of the cable.
> 
> BTW, I ordered a pair of Mojito. Mostly because I am curious to see if it can beat Aiwa HP D9 when it comes to size of the soundstage. Also, I do not mind cold sounding earbuds. I love Tomahawk which is cold and "metallic" sounding. I like Ting as well, which is better technically than Tomahawk and has got the same sort of cold sound.


 
 Can you kindly provide some info regarding how well will the Mojito stack up against the legendary Aiwa?

 Thank-you


----------



## Tomasz2D

This makes me wonder as I have tried already earbuds from some different countries.

 Can we say in general that:
 Chinese designed earbuds - "fun", warmer, bassier sound signature
 Indonesian and Thai designed earbuds - analitical, colder and trebler sound signature.
  
 Of course this is just general idea - there will be exeptions, specially in Chinese part.
  
 And now, is it becouse:
 A)  there are some sound signature preferences on national level?
  
 or
  
 B) Chinese eabuds are more mass produced products (in general) aimed at customers seeking just "fun" sounding earbuds and Indonesian and Thai earbuds are short series or even individual order products aimed at connoisseur customers that look for more sofisticated experience?


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> I think this is how it used to be in the past. In 2016 earbuds reached the level when they can be considered as equivalent to over-ear headphones and earbuds can be choosen also for stationary listening sessions over headphones - even just for better comfort or special earbuds sound qualities that headphones are missing.


 


 Well, you've got a point there. But that should be made clear for potential buyers. I am not at all interested in any head- or earphones that can not be driven properly by "standard" portable amps such as Cayin C5 or "basic" FiiO amps. Many buds with high impedance such as Zen 1 or Yuin PK1 sound good with that stuff. Of course those as well can be made to sound even better with tube amps or what have you. I mainly listen to music on the move (taking a walk outside, going to and from work etc), so that is my focus.


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> This makes me wonder as I have tried already earbuds from some different countries.
> 
> Can we say in general that:
> Chinese designed earbuds - "fun", warmer, bassier sound signature
> ...


 


 Edimun V3 is very bassy and warm - Indonesian.

 Rose Mojito is described as cold and analytical - Chinese (right?)

 Musicmaker Ting and Tomahawk are also Chinese, right? To me, they are both quite cold sounding.

 Of course there are always exceptions to any rule...


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> Edimun V3 is very bassy and warm - Indonesian.


 
  
 By the way, as you got your Edimun. As one member mentioned here already Edimun is bassier than Red De'mun so there must be differences between these two but I had some problems when deciding on Red De'mun sound siganture.
  
 I was like... I play first album, ok - RD is warm, I play another one - now RD is cold, play another one - cold again, play another one - this time it is warm. What? OK - simply it is mostly neutral but with some strong incline towards cold side.


----------



## Fabi

tayyab pirzada said:


> You NEED to try the Zen 2 amped. As long as its a powerful enough amp, you will noticably hear the difference. I tried Zen 2 without amp today and it sounded dull and unimpressive. I tried it with amp and I now consider it the best earbud period. Better than Mojito.


It was known that Zen 2 needed an amp to shine and it is also very picky with amps to sound best.
Glad for you now, better late than never


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> Also, I am curious about VE Nirvana and if that one can beat all other earbuds around. And I'm hoping for Blox to finally finish their new flagship earbud. Those two might come in at the very top of earbud lists...


 
 Ohk, now i started saving money.
 No more earbud till Nirvana and Blox X comes out.


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> Can you kindly provide some info regarding how well will the Mojito stack up against the legendary Aiwa?
> 
> Thank-you


 


 Will do when the Mojito arrive.


----------



## springbay

Ok guys, here is my effort of trying to provide my experience with the Zen 2.
  
 The Zen 2 is an efficient 320 ohm ear bud. That means you don't need much power to get sound out of it. Heck my iPhone 6s drives the Zen 2 to a loud enough volume without any trouble.
 Many head phone enthusiasts, mainly at forums like r/headphones are blindly calculating the efficiency of head gear to determine whether something needs amping or not.
 Then they complain about that the gear does not sound impressive, given that it should work due to their calculations. My take on this is that: yes they get sound out of the gear, and at loud enough volume. It's just that they are not feeding the gear with enough power to make it shine.
  
 The Zen 2 needs a lot of *power *to shine. Period. Don't buy the Zen 2 if you are not willing to pair it with a powerful enough source.
  
 VE are currently offering two portable desk top amps to use with the VE head gear (mainly the Zen 2): RA+ and RA 2.0. VE are about to release a balanced RA in the future as well.
  
 I have no experience with the RA+, but it is their budget amp. Designed to be used with a single 9.6V battery on the go with an output swing of 3V RMS to provide the Zen 2 with enough power to use the full potential. The RA+ can also be used with a power brick (I don't know the voltage of this, but I guess ~14V).
  
 The RA 2.0 on the other hand is the monster. It's designed to be used with two 9.6V batteries on the go or with a power brick of between 18V to 24V in desk top mode. This is silly powerful.
 When I listen to music with the Zen 2, the RA 2.0 stacked with the FiioX3ii is the only source I use, and I rarely pull the volume knob to more than 9 o'clock RA 2.0. I know that the RA+ ought be enough paired with my other gear, but I went full in to be prepared for future upgrades on other gear.
  
 I sometimes use the Zen 2 with a FiioK5/X3ii combo connected to my HTPC when watching TV, but even on high gain the K5/X3ii combo cannot come close of showing the full potential of the Zen 2 when listening to music. It works fine with talk telly though.
  
 So why am I writing this?
 This is a thread where many people write great and helpful impressions of ear buds. But it is easy to be fooled by ones impression without knowing what source they use or even what foams they are using with a certain bud. I for one never use earbuds without foams. Some will say you distort the sound of the Zen 2 as soon as you put any kind of foam on them. I on the other hand use the MP+ thin foams on almost all of my buds. That is just what rocks my boat.
  
 Some additional about the VE amps. You cannot charge the battery via the power brick. You need to take the battery out and use a charger. Lee suggests that you use the Soshine 9.6V black 260mAh to get the best experience out of the VE amps. Also that you should rather use it with battery instead of the Power brick, since the power brick is not a clean source. These recommendations above are probably over my head since I can't hear a noticeable difference in sound between my Soshine 9.6V/260mAh and my Noname 9V/250mAh batteries. But then it is quite difficult to A/B the batteries because the process of opening the RA 2.0 and change the batteries takes at least a minute for me. Also I have not experienced any uncelan sound using a 24V/500mAh power brick.


----------



## golov17

For RA+


----------



## springbay

Ok, it looks like the same Squeezebox 18V/1A brick that he shipped with the RA 2.0 to me.


----------



## Danneq

> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 But Cayin C5 is rated at 800mW per channel at 32 ohms. FiiO E11 is far less (88mW at low gain and 200 mW at high - 32 ohms) so I can understand if that is not enough. Cayin C5 should be powerful enough to drive Zen 2.0, and then some.

 Zen 1.0 doesn't sound very impressive out of a regular DAP that is not one of those new fancy audiophile thingies. But once you feed it enough power it rocks your socks off. Just about any portable amp will do. Why did VE choose to go in a direction where you need pure fusion energy to make Zen 2.0 show their full potential?


----------



## Saoshyant

To me, I'm hesitant about the high ohm earbuds for the very reason that it can limit portability.  Needing an amp immediately lessens my desire to use it as the brick size to run it increases.  Unless I can get lucky and my tiny RSA can power this, I'm just a little apprehensive, and think I'll stick with my current earbuds for now.  I don't need it to be so easily driven that a Sansa Clip can run it, but if I need an amp for an xDuoo X3 to run it, then I'm a little wary.


----------



## Townyj

Whaaaaatttt... Toneking TKY2. Dual driver earbud. 

http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=0.0.0.0&id=537463815406


----------



## AudioNewbi3

townyj said:


> Whaaaaatttt... Toneking TKY2. Dual driver earbud.
> 
> http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=0.0.0.0&id=537463815406


 
 God damnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Danneq

So the hype machine is on again...

  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Yep, I'll get a pair A.S.A.P.


----------



## audio123

http://penonaudio.com/Earphones/MusicMaker-TP16%20?sort=p.price&order=ASC
  
  
*MusicMaker *TONEKING* TP16 32Ω  High Quality Flat Head Earbuds   *       *Description  *

Sound features: wide soundstage, musical instruments structured, good position. Pure music is Clean and very solemn, ethereal, elegant, melodious sounds. Vocal performance is good, female voice is clean, sweet, male voice is thick. European and American popular bass performance, flexibility dive is good, the sound is clearer, the performance was more balanced.
 *Specification*

Driver: Dynamic driver
Impedance: 32Ω
Headphone sensitivity: 118dB/mW
Frequency range: 15-25000Hz
Interface: 3.5mm 
Cable Length: 1.2m±5cm
Weight: 15g
  
DIY PHEB01 Earbuds  
 http://penonaudio.com/Earphones/earbuds/DIY-PHEB01-Earbuds?sort=p.price&order=ASC
  
  
 any takers? feel like taking one each for the team


----------



## Townyj

audio123 said:


> http://penonaudio.com/Earphones/MusicMaker-TP16%20?sort=p.price&order=ASC
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Couple have already bought a pair, seems like they are a mini ting


----------



## audio123

townyj said:


> Couple have already bought a pair, seems like they are a mini ting


 

 ah i see. how about
  
DIY PHEB01 Earbuds  
http://penonaudio.com/Earphones/earbuds/DIY-PHEB01-Earbuds?sort=p.price&order=ASC


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> So the hype machine is on again...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This train goes non-stop, lol


----------



## Danneq




----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> ah i see. how about
> 
> DIY PHEB01 Earbuds
> 
> ...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> So the hype machine is on again...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oh boy, do I smell a 3 way duel comming up between the Toneking DD, Mojito, and Aiwa?


audio123 said:


> http://penonaudio.com/Earphones/MusicMaker-TP16%20?sort=p.price&order=ASC
> 
> 
> *MusicMaker *TONEKING* TP16 32Ω  High Quality Flat Head Earbuds   *       *Description  *
> ...


 
  
  


audio123 said:


> ah i see. how about
> 
> DIY PHEB01 Earbuds
> http://penonaudio.com/Earphones/earbuds/DIY-PHEB01-Earbuds?sort=p.price&order=ASC


 
 If I am not mistaken these are the DIY PowerBeats Dual Drivers. I have them. Basically mini Mojito's without much bass at all.........minus some details 
  



danneq said:


>


 
 Soooo damn true......


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Soooo many earbuds to try so little money:

 1) Zen 2
 2) Blox upcoming TOTL flagship
 3)Heavenly Sound 300Ohm
 4)Re-demum
 5)Toneking DD
  
 damn...........


----------



## golov17

http://s.aliexpress.com/IRvIvQZj


----------



## Frederick Wang

townyj said:


> Whaaaaatttt... Toneking TKY2. Dual driver earbud.
> 
> http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=0.0.0.0&id=537463815406


 
 I'M BUYING!


----------



## 93EXCivic

IS shipping from Penon any faster then other Aliexpress shippers?


----------



## Townyj

93excivic said:


> IS shipping from Penon any faster then other Aliexpress shippers?




Hell yes.. the free shipping is extremely fast with Penon. Ive ordered mainly EMS through Aliexpress. Roughly the same delivery time. Normal shipping through Ali takes a month for me.


----------



## kiler

frederick wang said:


> I'M BUYING!


 
 Please update, I'm trying to figure out what a double driver bud can do xD


----------



## vapman

93excivic said:


> IS shipping from Penon any faster then other Aliexpress shippers?


 
  


93excivic said:


> IS shipping from Penon any faster then other Aliexpress shippers?


 

 Just make sure you're not getting shafted on ePacket prices, which is like $2-4 tops to ship.  It still arrives fairly quickly.
  
 I have never ordered from Penon, so who knows, maybe for $15 you get EMS.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Okay folks, time for another comparison, this time with regards to RX-1 and the Cygnus, presented non-other by your friendly neighborhood audio newbie.
  
_*Kindly note that this is purely my personal experience and that your mileage may vary. Kindly take it with a grain of salt.*_  
  
 Comparison is only made between RX-1 and Cygnus and no control earbud was used.
  
 Rockboxed X3 ===> DIY 12 Strand Copper and Silver Interconnect ===> OAK Audio PHA
 LO Volume level -25dbs
 Heigi Donuts Foams on the RX-1 and Cygnus
  
 Tracks used:
 Shigeo Suzuki - Colors of the Wind (FLAC)
 Suara - Musouka (FLAC)
  
*Cygnus:*
 -Soundstage is only a tad wider and deeper
 -Sparkly treble
 -Better treble extension
 -Better detail retrieval / clarity (Maybe due to the extended treble)
 -Sounded more analytical
 -Bass is less muffled
  
*RX-1:*
 -Liquid mids (Very smooth and well rounded)
 -Warmer 
 -Slightly veiled (Maybe in part due to the lack of extension on both ends when compared to the Cygnus)
 -Vocals seems a weeeeeeeee bit recessed (Again, maybe due to the lack of extension?)
  
*Both:*
 -To me, the bass on both have the same quick "attack and decay", almost no bloom.It's just there when needed. Nothing that will impress a bass head.
  
*Conclusion:*
 As many have asked, is the Cygnus a worthy upgrade to an RX-1?
 Well, like the answer with all things in life "it depends".
 If you listen mainly to Hip-hop, pop, "modern music", then in my opinion, the Cygnus would be an upgrade from the RX-1......BUT it may only be a slight upgrade.
 Personally, I would say the RX-1 for vocal jazz, bossa-nova, or other 'sentimental' genres or "smooth and easy listening music".
 However, in my personal collection, if I wanted to use the RX-1, I would have just used my SeaHF 320Ohm. *In my personal opinion*, _*and in my collection, *_I think that the role of the RX-1 and my SeaHF are of some degree of overlapping, thus I would use the SeaHF as my first choice.
  
 Still, the RX-1 is certainly no slouch and to me, is worth every penny given it's build quality, accessories, and sound signature. (Hey Shozy, if you are reading, I hope that you learn something from RX-1 in terms of packaging and accessories *wink*)



_*The Cygnus has well over 200Hours of burn in
 *The RX-1 has about 80-120Hours of burn in_
  
 Hope you guys find my thoughts useful.
 Thank-you


----------



## Willber

93excivic said:


> IS shipping from Penon any faster then other Aliexpress shippers?


 

 I've had two deliveries from Penon, both were less than two weeks to the UK.


----------



## Townyj

Just ordered the tp16 from Penon  dont need a new bud but its so cheap i couldnt resist. Plus the Cygnus shell fits me best out of any earbud so far. So hopefully these arent far off.


----------



## luedriver

audio123 said:


> http://penonaudio.com/Earphones/MusicMaker-TP16%20?sort=p.price&order=ASC
> 
> 
> *MusicMaker *TONEKING* TP16 32Ω  High Quality Flat Head Earbuds   *       *Description  *
> ...


 
 toneking name and silver plated? cables, seems tempting, but still waiting for seahf 32ohm and cygnus
  
  
 edit- I wonder what cables seahf 32ohm has, probably siver plated copper, but they didn't mention


----------



## boblauer

93excivic said:


> IS shipping from Penon any faster then other Aliexpress shippers?


 
 Yep 10 days end to end delivering to Southern California and very good customer service. Once a customer some things are discounted based on that. I've tried all 3 big vendors and Penon is my first choice followed by AE simply for the service aspect. If cost is the most important than AE can be a bit cheaper especially if you ask the seller for a HeadFi discount. I'm lucky and cost is usually not a big factor in under $100 purchases to me.  All based on my opinion.


----------



## 93EXCivic

Good to hear it is faster. I am planning on my next order from there (once my Monk+ and T-Musics get in).


----------



## vapman

Whatever luck Danneq had must be passed onto me. I just grabbed a set of Astrotec Lyra with the stock cable at the same price I got mine for.
  
If anyone is interested in a Lyra (non-6) with a cable that has been re-terminated with 2.5mm TRRS balanced, a 2.5mm TRRS balanced to 3.5mm regular, and a short 3.5mm extension cable, get in touch!
  
 From europe to USA back to europe in record time, @kvad is the lucky owner of a "new" lyra! and i will be the lucky owner of my second lyra later this week... hehe!!!!


----------



## boblauer

audio123 said:


> http://penonaudio.com/Earphones/MusicMaker-TP16%20?sort=p.price&order=ASC
> 
> 
> *MusicMaker *TONEKING* TP16 32Ω  High Quality Flat Head Earbuds   *       *Description  *
> ...


 
 Damn it you guys, I need another earbud like a need a hole in my head but bought TP16 anyway. My co-wrokers laugh at me as to which "headphone" I am using each day.
 I guess I should start each post with Hi My name is Bob and I am a Head-Fi-Aholic.


----------



## Spider fan

93excivic said:


> Good to hear it is faster. I am planning on my next order from there (once my Monk+ and T-Musics get in).


 
 Penon is bigbargainonline on ebay too.  Last time I ordered from them was June 8th and got it in Florida June 22.   However, it didnt ship out for awhile so maybe item was out of stock.


----------



## Tomasz2D

townyj said:


> Whaaaaatttt... Toneking TKY2. Dual driver earbud.
> 
> http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=0.0.0.0&id=537463815406


 
  
 I will pass on this one. I just don't get along with all these dual drivers. DIY PHEB01, Rose Mojito, DUNU Alpha 1 - they all sound so unnatural to me, like there is a hole in the middle of frequency.


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> I will pass on this one. I just don't get along with all these dual drivers. DIY PHEB01, Rose Mojito, DUNU Alpha 1 - they all sound so unnatural to me, like there is a hole in the middle of frequency.


 

 I'm with you here man, I will hold out for reviews first. Mojito at least has some great bass depth and clarity. I can't say it had any unnatural sound to me. Maybe hyper realistic if anything. But yeah, even the Mojito is an anomaly among earbuds.


----------



## sharkz

A quick question, where are people getting high quality donut foams for these? I've had some crappy ones come with my T-Musics and Faaeal's but they either rip, won't fit on, or are of bad quality. I bought some Heigi foams on Amazon, but they are of the non-donut variety.


----------



## Spider fan

sharkz said:


> A quick question, where are people getting high quality donut foams for these? I've had some crappy ones come with my T-Musics and Faaeal's but they either rip, won't fit on, or are of bad quality. I bought some Heigi foams on Amazon, but they are of the non-donut variety.


 
 VE expansion pack donuts nice and strong.  The RX-1 ones better than the t-music ones but not quite as thick as VE.


----------



## fairx

golov17 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/IRvIvQZj




Gorgeous!! OMG anybody jump into the fire yet?

RABAK LAGI POKET AKU BULAN NI!!


----------



## ld100

golov17 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/IRvIvQZj




That looks interesting!


----------



## vapman

sharkz said:


> A quick question, where are people getting high quality donut foams for these? I've had some crappy ones come with my T-Musics and Faaeal's but they either rip, won't fit on, or are of bad quality. I bought some Heigi foams on Amazon, but they are of the non-donut variety.


 

 Hiegi are available from a variety of places. I got a set of full covers and a set of donuts from Shenzen Audio on amazon.


----------



## sharkz

I guess those are what I bought, except apparently they are out of the "Middle Out" donut style ones. I didn't realize I was buying whole cover ones. I may need to see if I can use a hole punch or something to make some nice holes in them. Thanks for the response Vapman


----------



## Willber

sharkz said:


> I guess those are what I bought, except apparently they are out of the "Middle Out" donut style ones. I didn't realize I was buying whole cover ones. I may need to see if I can use a hole punch or something to make some nice holes in them. Thanks for the response Vapman


 

 I got some from here:
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hiegi-High-Quality-Foam-Cushions-Replace-Eartips-for-Earphone-Earbuds-6-pairs-/182146471324?var=483677691378
  
 They're ok but not as good as the ones that came with my Monk+ ex-pack.


----------



## sharkz

Thanks for the link. My issue is I have two Monk+ sets inbound from Massdrop sometime in the next two weeks and I don't want to order more of the same earbuds just for the foam at this point. I'd rather experiment with more stuff instead of hoarding the same earbuds.


----------



## Spider fan

sharkz said:


> Thanks for the link. My issue is I have two Monk+ sets inbound from Massdrop sometime in the next two weeks and I don't want to order more of the same earbuds just for the foam at this point. I'd rather experiment with more stuff instead of hoarding the same earbuds.


 
 Dont you have an RX1 coming in?  It's donuts are pretty decent a medium thickness.  I think it came with 3 pairs.


----------



## sharkz

I never got in on the RX1, it didn't sound like my cup of tea sonically. I'm a mostly rock guy, so that didn't really seem to fit there. I think my next purchase is going to be one of the higher ohm earbuds. Either TY Hi-Z 150s or Seahf 320ohms.


----------



## Spider fan

sharkz said:


> I never got in on the RX1, it didn't sound like my cup of tea sonically. I'm a mostly rock guy, so that didn't really seem to fit there. I think my next purchase is going to be one of the higher ohm earbuds. Either TY Hi-Z 150s or Seahf 320ohms.


 
 My bad got you mixed with up with Wilber.  Its him waiting for them.


----------



## Willber

spider fan said:


> sharkz said:
> 
> 
> > I never got in on the RX1, it didn't sound like my cup of tea sonically. I'm a mostly rock guy, so that didn't really seem to fit there. I think my next purchase is going to be one of the higher ohm earbuds. Either TY Hi-Z 150s or Seahf 320ohms.
> ...


 

 Got them today. Early days but I'm a bit underwhelmed TBH. I don't doubt their quality but I don't think they're right for my tastes. I'll give them a few more days, though.


----------



## Spider fan

willber said:


> Got them today. Early days but I'm a bit underwhelmed TBH. I don't doubt their quality but I don't think they're right for my tastes. I'll give them a few more days, though.


 
 I mainly use them for Tv/movies.  Currently, watching band of brothers awesome imaging and vocals.  They are very accurate sounding to me compared to some of my other earbuds.  I do notice they will take bass boost.  I think Bass is what most people think they lack from what Ive' read.  I dont usually eq ever except the bassboost switch on my amp.  However, my vintage Sansui has a -10 to +10 bass knob so makes it rather easy to try.  I was impressed by the RX1's improvement with I bumped it up some.


----------



## base08

audionewbi3 said:


> Okay folks, time for another comparison, this time with regards to RX-1 and the Cygnus, presented non-other by your friendly neighborhood audio newbie.
> 
> _*Kindly note that this is purely my personal experience and that your mileage may vary. Kindly take it with a grain of salt.*_
> 
> ...


 

Just got my rx1 in the mailbox and even though I don't have the cygnus, your detailed analysis for the rx 1 is exactly what I feel with mine. Coming from the ty hiz 32 and the monk plus I feel this a great upgrade being a couple of degrees ahead of the aforementioned two. 
For the people who feel the rx1 is great, what foams are you using? And fit? Over the ear monitor style or normal?


----------



## Willber

spider fan said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Got them today. Early days but I'm a bit underwhelmed TBH. I don't doubt their quality but I don't think they're right for my tastes. I'll give them a few more days, though.
> ...


 
 I forgot to mention, I use EQ and have boosted the lower frequencies, but to get the RX to match the Hi-Z pushes them too far and they get muddy. The Monk+ are better than the RX in this regard IMO. Movies, though, I imagine they will be good for that. Also, acoustic music and mellow vocals sound good.


----------



## Tomasz2D

base08 said:


> For the people who feel the rx1 is great, what foams are you using? And fit? Over the ear monitor style or normal?


 
 Stock foams and normal style.


----------



## sharkz

base08 said:


> Just got my rx1 in the mailbox and even though I don't have the cygnus, your detailed analysis for the rx 1 is exactly what I feel with mine. Coming from the ty hiz 32 and the monk plus I feel this a great upgrade being a couple of degrees ahead of the aforementioned two.
> For the people who feel the rx1 is great, what foams are you using? And fit? Over the ear monitor style or normal?


 
  
 Serious question: Does anyone wear these over the ear? I didn't realize that was a thing except for certain IEMs.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I tried RX1. Didn't like them and gave them to a friend. Cygnus however are one of my favourite buds.


----------



## vapman

sharkz said:


> Serious question: Does anyone wear these over the ear? I didn't realize that was a thing except for certain IEMs.


 
  
 With the exception of the MX500/Monk style shells which you can't wear over the ear, I wear everything else over the ear. Lyra is great over the ear.


----------



## kvad

golov17 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/IRvIvQZj


 

 Really excited to see more earbuds​ from MusicMaker, but doesn't that shape look really hard to fit into your ears?


----------



## vapman

kvad said:


> Really excited to see more earbuds​ from MusicMaker, *but doesn't that shape look really hard to fit into your ears?*


 
 this is what i have thought of every musicmaker product i have ever seen, lol.
  
 the tomahawk was awkward and the tk13 well.... just hurt.


----------



## jant71

RX-1 fit is an issue and can be odd. They fit me a good bit better if swapped with the left in the right ear etc. but by looking at them it wouldn't be any different but it is for me. Over ears for me is exactly the same as normal wearing style for me. Fit and sound no different. Only reversing sides is a near zero issue fit. Still going hybrid with them whenever my JVC's arrive in the mail. Then I should have no issues.
  
  
 TKY12 looks a bit better than the RX-1 shape having a more protruding edge. Not sold on them and they are always a bit pricey to begin with. Not sure how they will sound. They seem to get cleaner and brighter/lighter with increasing price, the MM buds. The "Clear and detailed description scares me a bit. The RX-1 are one thing at such a cheap price. Those MM aren't going to be bought by me w/o quite a few impressions and waiting for the New Toy Syndrome to wear off. Kudos to the guinea pigs


----------



## springbay

base08 said:


> For the people who feel the rx1 is great, what foams are you using? And fit? Over the ear monitor style or normal?


 
 I use the MonkPlus thin foams. They fit perfectly in my ears normal style.
 Buds that don't sit well in my ears are the Tomahawks, the Tings and the Mrice E100.


----------



## Willber

vapman said:


> sharkz said:
> 
> 
> > Serious question: Does anyone wear these over the ear? I didn't realize that was a thing except for certain IEMs.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the reminder, I'm so used to my MX500s I forgot to try the RX-1 this way. It seems to have improved them. Further testing required and underway.


----------



## HairyHeadMara

RX1 sound a lot better with Monk Plus thin foam than wearing them naked.


----------



## Willber

hairyheadmara said:


> RX1 sound a lot better with Monk Plus thin foam than wearing them naked.


 

 I prefer the Monk+ thick foams.


----------



## HairyHeadMara

willber said:


> I prefer the Monk+ thick foams.




Will give them a try

Cheers


----------



## base08

Thank you guys for a lot for the quick feedback on the foams and the fitting of the rx-1 been trying some different but seems to me that thin monk plus foams are the best combo giving the best compromise between highs and lows and also I was skeptical about wearing them over the ear but seems sonically the best fiting even though more prone to fall if I push the cable. Liking them a lot, amazing value and happy to trust on clieos opinion (testing over 100 earbuds and placing them in such a high place, they couldn't be bad).


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Bill Evans and Oscar Peterson jazz in 24 bit FLAC format with Zen 2 amped = I feel like I'm there live


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Zen 2 is a genre master just like the HD600 full size headphones. Only exception probably is EDM, as Zen 2 lacks the deep sub-bass for it. But everything else it can handle really, really well.


----------



## Tarnum

Currently, I am using RX-1 with double foam (full foam + donut foam) => fit is better, bass get more power, brightness and forwardness of mid are reduced to be more balanced. And an amp is needed for RX-1 to shine.


----------



## Willber

tarnum said:


> Currently, I am using RX-1 with double foam (full foam + donut foam) => fit is better, bass get more power, brightness and forwardness of mid are reduced to be more balanced. And an amp is needed for RX-1 to shine.


 

 Wow, just tried that and it's a big difference! Looks promising, I shall continue rolling...


----------



## kinetic758

townyj said:


> Whaaaaatttt... Toneking TKY2. Dual driver earbud.
> 
> http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=0.0.0.0&id=537463815406




I'm in. Emailed Penon to see if/when they will carry it.


----------



## kinetic758

Just purchased the Toneking TY2. We'll see how they compare to the Mojito. I'm almost certain the build quality will be better (my Tings are built like tanks compared to mojito).


----------



## Tomasz2D

Some more thoughts about *Red De'mun*.
  
 Red De'mun is an analitical earbud. It is mostly neutral with some incline towards cold sound signature. This is serious tool for serious listening. Do not expect it to be "fun" earbud.
  
 Red De'mun is your jealous demon (of you)
 It requires your 100% attention. It is so direct and detailed that it is difficult to do anything else when using it. Maybe with low volume you can try to delude it but with higher volume it wants you to be focused only on music.
  
 Red De'mun is your honest demon (with you)
 It is very revealing with good instruments separation and great layering. The soundstage seems to be normal but as every good demon does, from time to time it will play little tricks on you, and you will hear sounds that seem to come from real world. Like this piano - was it in music or was it in my house? But feed it with bad source and it will throw it back straight into your face. It will not smooth anything out, it will not hide anything.


----------



## music4mhell

kinetic758 said:


> Just purchased the Toneking TY2. We'll see how they compare to the Mojito. I'm almost certain the build quality will be better (my Tings are built like tanks compared to mojito).


wow please give your early impressions please


i m so curious to know


----------



## fairx

tomasz2d said:


> Some more thoughts about *Red De'mun*.
> 
> Red De'mun is an analitical earbud. It is mostly neutral with some incline towards cold sound signature. This is serious tool for serious listening. Do not expect it to be "fun" earbud.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the review. 

Where would you rank it in your earbud list?

Btw my TY hiz 32 ohm just arrived

Ootb I found it harder to drive despite being 32ohm. Will burn and listen as I only have tz and forgot all my other earbud at home.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

fairx said:


> Thanks for the review.
> 
> Where would you rank it in your earbud list?
> 
> ...


 
 I enjoyed Ty Hi-z 32 Ohm. Very good headphone for $6, and possibly better than Monk+ (though not better than original Monk). Though I gave mine away to a friend.


----------



## kurtextrem

oh no oh no... just came back from italy / beach / sun and what do I see? almost 100 pages to read AND a new dual driver bud.......


----------



## justvinh

audionewbi3 said:


> Okay folks, time for another comparison, this time with regards to RX-1 and the Cygnus, presented non-other by your friendly neighborhood audio newbie.
> 
> _*Kindly note that this is purely my personal experience and that your mileage may vary. Kindly take it with a grain of salt.*_
> 
> ...



Totally agree with your assessment, personally the cynus is also better than RX1 when it comes down to comfort and fit, and the fit with earbuds plays a huge factor in the over all tonality.


----------



## Fabi

tomasz2d said:


> Some more thoughts about *Red De'mun*.
> 
> Red De'mun is an analitical earbud. It is mostly neutral with some incline towards cold sound signature. This is serious tool for serious listening. Do not expect it to be "fun" earbud.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the review. Very interesting. 
For those who don't like red, there is also Blue De'mun  and maybe black later


----------



## luedriver

tayyab pirzada said:


> I enjoyed Ty Hi-z 32 Ohm. Very good headphone for $6, and possibly better than Monk+ (though not better than original Monk). Though I gave mine away to a friend.


 
 have you tried any monks (old or new) on your amp, if so does it improve the sound?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

luedriver said:


> have you tried any monks (old or new) on your amp, if so does it improve the sound?


 
 I actually haven't. Though I have both Monk and Monk+. Will try today.


----------



## Lionlian

Just receive a RX-1 today, Mid and Vocal are great and sound much fuller than monk+ too, definitely step up for me.
  
 I just wonder how far can Burn-in take me away.


----------



## golov17

http://s.aliexpress.com/aUfyANne
Low price HCK


----------



## vapman

98 is low?


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> 98 is low?


 Jim can give a discount for head-fiers  


Spoiler



$75


----------



## kurtextrem

vapman said:


> this is what i have thought of every musicmaker product i have ever seen, lol.
> 
> the tomahawk was awkward and the tk13 well.... just hurt.


 
 so true, but not only the shell itself hurts, but tomahawks tones hurt too (but that's only me) :/
  
  
 I have a weird question. Is anyone out there, who can buy the edimun v3 with a way lower shipping cost and also ship it way lower to germany? I mean http://prntscr.com/camg0o that's a lot...


----------



## vapman

kurtextrem said:


> so true, but not only the shell itself hurts, but tomahawks tones hurt too (but that's only me) :/
> 
> 
> I have a weird question. Is anyone out there, who can buy the edimun v3 with a way lower shipping cost and also ship it way lower to germany? I mean http://prntscr.com/camg0o that's a lot...


 
 Email them and ask for an economy shipping cost. Its what I do! The site calculator chooses EMS because its fast, insured, and registered. they will answer your email =)
  
 i am interested in knowing tomahawk & ting driver size and reshelling it


----------



## Tomasz2D

kurtextrem said:


> but tomahawks tones hurt too (but that's only me) :/


 
  
 Not only you. This is also me and Music4mheli and springbay just as I recall but there are even more I think.


----------



## Townyj

Just sent a question through about the Edimun V3. Would be good if i could get it sent economy shipping. Its way to expensive with EMS.


----------



## music4mhell

music4mhell said:


> kinetic758 said:
> 
> 
> > Just purchased the Toneking TY2. We'll see how they compare to the Mojito. I'm almost certain the build quality will be better (my Tings are built like tanks compared to mojito).
> ...


 
 Any updates buddy ?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

base08 said:


> Just got my rx1 in the mailbox and even though I don't have the cygnus, your detailed analysis for the rx 1 is exactly what I feel with mine. Coming from the ty hiz 32 and the monk plus I feel this a great upgrade being a couple of degrees ahead of the aforementioned two.
> For the people who feel the rx1 is great, what foams are you using? And fit? Over the ear monitor style or normal?


 
 Sorry for the late reply mate, I've just settled down back in my dormitory.
  
 In my case, the best fit for me was rubber rings + heigi dougnuts, normal earbud ear style


----------



## audio123

MusicMaker TP16 will be in in 1 weeks time. stay tuned.


----------



## music4mhell

audio123 said:


> MusicMaker TP16 will be in in 1 weeks time. stay tuned.


 
 Please buy Musicmaker Toneking TY2 and share your impressions too


----------



## tommo21

I've ordered Ty2 too, impressions will be shared. Hopefully they're not as large as they look.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

kinetic758 said:


> Just purchased the Toneking TY2. We'll see how they compare to the Mojito. I'm almost certain the build quality will be better (my Tings are built like tanks compared to mojito).


 
  
 Looking forward to the comparison!


justvinh said:


> Totally agree with your assessment, personally the cynus is also better than RX1 when it comes down to comfort and fit, and the fit with earbuds plays a huge factor in the over all tonality.


 
  
 Thank-you for the complement! Earbud fit like you mention will undoubtedly play a significant role in sound quality and signature.


lionlian said:


> Just receive a RX-1 today, Mid and Vocal are great and sound much fuller than monk+ too, definitely step up for me.
> 
> I just wonder how far can Burn-in take me away.


 
  
 Quite far, but not as far as the Cygnus
  


tommo21 said:


> I've ordered Ty2 too, impressions will be shared. Hopefully they're not as large as they look.


 
 Looking foward!!!


----------



## audio123

music4mhell said:


> Please buy Musicmaker Toneking TY2 and share your impressions too


 
 alright. will try my best now waiting for my other gears to be in.


----------



## audio123

Well it is not fair to ask our clan to wait for our site to be 100% ~I am going to just do"candy" the old fashion way, same as what we did with the monk plus launch~ to order the "candy",
 u simply need to "comment" on this post~after 19:00 NYC time on this coming Sunday~(28th Aug)~
 simply tell me how many candy do u wanna (1 or 2 ) and I will contact u with the msg system on facebook~ the transaction will be ( our site , aliexpress or paypal directly)
 So 100 in total for this batch~(it should go without saying that the orders after the first 100 units are not going to get u "candy"....)
 The price is 10usd~shipping fee will be charged the same as a any other monk plus~u can of course combine ur orders with other stuff as well~when u order "candy"
 All of the "candy" will come with a unique serial number~
 From 000 ~ 999 (plz do not tell me what number u wanna, as we will just send them as it goes).
 I merely decided to go with this method, cuz it is too much to ask guys to wait any longer~
 Also, as for its collection value~ we won't be providing any service to re-terminate them in any manner as it is very easy to mod them with all these colored wires for any of ur local exped upgrade-shop for headphones~but I say don't mod them~ again for the collection value~
 let me know if i am not clear in this ~
 and best luck to all our brothers~ on the coming sale~
 I hope it could be a fun exp to all.
 Cheers
 Lee


----------



## Lionlian

my RX-1 treble are coming out so much after 10 hour of burn-in, I don't know if it mid-centric or not anymore.


----------



## Doori

lionlian said:


> my RX-1 treble are coming out so much after 10 hour of burn-in, I don't know if it mid-centric or not anymore.


 
 With full foam?


----------



## kinetic758

music4mhell said:


> Any updates buddy ?


 


 Still waiting for it to arrive in the mail...


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> 98 is low?


 
  
 Currently $89 on Penon.


----------



## Tomasz2D

fairx said:


> Where would you rank it in your earbud list?


 
  
 Red De'mun is among best earbuds from my list but it is not the best because best or ultimate earbuds do not exist and will never exist. Then it goes like this...

 Red De'mun is most analitical and detailed earbud but with cost of some musicality, harmony and faithfulness.
 MX985 is most faithfull but with cost of details and some clearness.
 Zen 2.0 is most musical but with cost of faithfulness.
 Lyra6 is somewhere between MX985 and Red De'mun.
  
 And so the story goes...
  
 This is like with this saying we have here:
 You never can have something done fast, cheap and well at the same time.
 You can have it done cheap and fast but not well or,
 You can have it done fast and well but not cheap or,
 You can have it done cheap and well but not fast.


----------



## vapman

@Tomasz2D is Polish and writes better than most Americans I see on here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 bro


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> @Tomasz2D is Polish and writes better than most Americans I see on here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Cheers


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Zen 2 is super musical. And i love it. I thought i liked analytical sound sig but since ive heard musical i cant go back.


----------



## vapman

Hahaha, same experience I had here Tayyab. I think i had Zen first though.
  
 I am using my Red De'Mun with Hiegi full foam right now. I think the thickness of Hiegi foam helps a lot. I was previously doing double foams on the Red De'Mun but comfort & clarity is better with Hiegi foam. I was previously using Monk Plus donut or stock full foams (thin) doubled.
  
 Interesting that @Tomasz2D compares the Red De'mun to the MX985 recently as I just traded an IEM for the MX985. It is on its way to be and should have it in about a week. I am extremely excited to finally know the MX985's sound. The trade is thanks to @rggz who is getting an awesome IEM & custom cable in return.
  
 One funny thing: I never realized there were thin/thick Monk Plus foams. I thought they were all the same...


----------



## kurtextrem

wait what? there are two different monk+ 'thin' foams?


----------



## vapman

kurtextrem said:


> wait what? there are two different monk+ 'thin' foams?


 

 at least i'm not alone in not knowing hahah


----------



## boblauer

tomasz2d said:


> And so the story goes...
> 
> This is like with this saying we have here:
> You never can have something done fast, cheap and well at the same time.
> ...


 
 Here's a pic of my desktop background at work, it sums up my feelings on cheap rush jobs, I'm in IT so I beat my user's with this daily when they want it fast, free, feature rich and no bugs as features.


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> Hahaha, same experience I had here Tayyab. I think i had Zen first though.
> 
> I am using my Red De'Mun with Hiegi full foam right now. I think the thickness of Hiegi foam helps a lot. I was previously doing double foams on the Red De'Mun but comfort & clarity is better with Hiegi foam. I was previously using Monk Plus donut or stock full foams (thin) doubled.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Congrats on the MX985.  With all this recent talk of the Red De'Mun, I've been in communication with maker about purchasing one (thanks @Tomasz2D!).  Interested in your comparison between the two as well since the Senn is one of those buds that has been on my radar for a while now.


----------



## vapman

kinetic758 said:


> Congrats on the MX985.  With all this recent talk of the Red De'Mun, I've been in communication with maker about purchasing one (thanks @Tomasz2D!).  Interested in your comparison between the two as well since the Senn is one of those buds that has been on my radar for a while now.


 
 http://bengkelmacro.com/ for edimun
 https://www.facebook.com/pages/Demun-Custom-Cable/1000439423367899 for de'mun


----------



## ld100

RX-1 with Dragonfly Black is a noticeable improvement and sounds considerably better. I am surprised how much of a difference it makes.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

MX985 was one of the most boring earbuds in the world in my opinion. I returned it within a week.


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> http://bengkelmacro.com/




Wait, isn't that for the Edimun (not the De'mun)?


----------



## kinetic758

tayyab pirzada said:


> MX985 was one of the most boring earbuds in the world in my opinion. I returned it within a week.





Well, you also didn't like the Zen 2 at first. Maybe you needed a bit more time with it! In other news, should be getting the Ostry this weekend which I know you're a big fan of


----------



## vapman

kinetic758 said:


> Wait, isn't that for the Edimun (not the De'mun)?


 

 Yup, you're correct, my mistake. I didn't read the last message enough before posting the bmac link.
  
 You want De'Mun Custom Cable https://www.facebook.com/pages/Demun-Custom-Cable/1000439423367899


----------



## rggz

tayyab pirzada said:


> MX985 was one of the most boring earbuds in the world in my opinion. I returned it within a week.


 

 Well, MX985s isn't an attention whore earbud, might it makes them sound boring to you plus your bias by more musical signatures, IMO MX985 when paired with a good amp and source has an _excellent_ separation and wide presentation which I believe make it be a champion here. But sound taste is really subjective with a lot of items in equipment chain/equation which can differ opinions lol.


----------



## gwompki

Just got my RX1.  This is a nice change from some of the bass heavy IEMs I've been listening to lately.  These remind me quite a bit of the Senn HD598 signature, but with narrower sound stage.  Listening through my Fiio E12a which seems to be a good match.  I tried through my phone for a few minutes and while I didn't get a chance to listen very long, I definitely prefer them through the amp.  I'm using the stock foams stretched as far back as possible.  I've found this is a good balance between keeping it in my ears and not muddying up the sound.


----------



## kinetic758

Got my replacement Mojitos. This pair is definitely more consistent in terms of cosmetic build (still came with a sticky residue on them which you have to be careful with as to not rub it onto the speaker grills when applying foams). 

More importantly, no rattling. I would suggest anyone who's not happy with them exchange them. Rose seems to be pretty accommodating.


----------



## kinetic758

rggz said:


> Well, MX985s isn't an attention whore earbud, might it makes them sound boring to you plus your bias by more musical signatures, IMO MX985 when paired with a good amp and source has an _excellent_ separation and wide presentation which I believe make it be a champion here. But sound taste is really subjective with a lot of items in equipment chain/equation which can differ opinions lol.




I'm in agreement with you, regarding earbuds that try to grab attention. While they are fun at first, I tend to reach for the pairs that are more natural and neutral (I've probably listened to my Ting three times as much as my Cygnus). To me, those earbuds have the most longevity.


----------



## vapman

The MX985 is entering my collection to hopefully substitute for what I used to keep an Etymotic IEM around for. Very little fun, immense honesty, dead accurate sound reproduction, and nothing else.
  
 But, it will arrive soon enough. Until then, I still use Red De'mun almost every day


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> Yup, you're correct, my mistake. I didn't read the last message enough before posting the bmac link.
> 
> You want De'Mun Custom Cable https://www.facebook.com/pages/Demun-Custom-Cable/1000439423367899




About to the pull the trigger on the red De'mun. How did the stiffness of the cable affect the fit for you?

Edit: and do these require an amp?


----------



## vapman

kinetic758 said:


> About to the pull the trigger on the red De'mun. How did the stiffness of the cable affect the fit for you?
> 
> Edit: and do these require an amp?


 

 Its hardly stiff at all after all the use i have given it. In the Bengkel/De'Mun combo thread @irgunawan has posted advice about bending the cable yourself to make it more flexible. I  have been suggesting the same thing since the day I got mine. The first few weeks I had it I rolled it up in my hands many times, now i just use it and it's not that big of a deal at all. It is actually pretty flexible when it is broken in. do keep in mind that's several months of constant use before i stopped thinking it didn't bend easily.
  
 They do not need an amp. I was using them today directly with my laptop and was surprised at how good they were non amped.


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> Its hardly stiff at all after all the use i have given it. In the Bengkel/De'Mun combo thread @irgunawan
> has posted advice about bending the cable yourself to make it more flexible. I  have been suggesting the same thing since the day I got mine. The first few weeks I had it I rolled it up in my hands many times, now i just use it and it's not that big of a deal at all. It is actually pretty flexible when it is broken in. do keep in mind that's several months of constant use before i stopped thinking it didn't bend easily.
> 
> They do not need an amp. I was using them today directly with my laptop and was surprised at how good they were non amped.




Thanks. As I read through the Bengkel/De'mun thread, I'm still confused as to which I should get: the Edimun or the De'mun!


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kinetic758 said:


> Well, you also didn't like the Zen 2 at first. Maybe you needed a bit more time with it! In other news, should be getting the Ostry this weekend which I know you're a big fan of


 
 Ostry is one of the greatest especially if you like bass. Try amping it for even more bass.


----------



## audio123

tayyab pirzada said:


> Ostry is one of the greatest especially if you like bass. Try amping it for even more bass.


 

 kc08 u mean? the quantity of bass is good but the quality of bass is mediocre. its so loose, not even tight


----------



## vapman

kinetic758 said:


> Thanks. As I read through the Bengkel/De'mun thread, I'm still confused as to which I should get: the Edimun or the De'mun!


 

 until people who bought both can compare them, it is hard to say, the only thing to say for sure, is that they are definitely different from one another and even older version edimun.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

audio123 said:


> kc08 u mean? the quantity of bass is good but the quality of bass is mediocre. its so loose, not even tight


 
 I actually like it a lot. But I'm not a bass-head. It has the most bass out of all the earbuds I've tried.


----------



## Tomasz2D

kinetic758 said:


> Thanks. As I read through the Bengkel/De'mun thread, I'm still confused as to which I should get: the Edimun or the De'mun!


 
  
 You can wait untill vapman gets his Edimun or maybe @Rizky Octayudha can chime in with some more details about both of them:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/811150/demun-bengkel-macro/135#post_12776008
  
 My only very simplified assumption about differences of  both after reading some impressions about Edimun is that maybe:
  
 Red De'mun = brighter and colder (analitical)
 Edimun v3 = darker and warmer (musical)


----------



## fairx

coming from monk+ which can be compared directly, TY HiZ 32ohm didn't have any surprises anymore, been there heard that..
  
 Last night I listen to Alexis Cole - Dazzling Blue with TY I notice the vocals, transition from center left to center right is so true and focus, not so with my RX-1 nor Tomahawk. Can't really compared to monk+ because I loan monk to friend.
  
 not really sure how to describe that, but if you're fan of the album you might notice this.


----------



## kurtextrem

vapman said:


> at least i'm not alone in not knowing hahah


 
 it seems they've updated the ext pack. Previously it had red foams, red donuts and the special monk+ things. Now it's red/blue foams, red/blue donuts and the special monk+ things


----------



## Townyj

Oh no... Red Demun ordered. Oops! Ok ok ive got enough incoming now. Sheesh. Need to sell off a few things :/


----------



## Lionlian

After 20 hour of burn-in my RX-1 completely transfrom from warm to bright, even vocal seem to be more brighter, what the heck.


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman I personally feel the Mojito is a closer replacement to an Ety than the MX985. The MX985 to me feels laid back, I suppose maybe in the same way a Grado can, but I haven't listened to a Grado in awhile. It's a talented jack of all trades but can be underwhelming depending on genre, source and mood.


----------



## luedriver

anyone here listens to chiptunes?
  
 I feel like the rx-1's are just made for them, even without foams, I don't feel a lack of lows or highs, just very detailed tones...
  
 video game music from old gameboys, or custom made like this
  
 not high fidelity music, I know, but yesterday, when by chance I heard tetris music, I felt like the lack of bass made it more faithful to the sound of a gameboy but 100x better detail
  
 perhaps something like a pokemon music record/vinyl it make it more justifiable


----------



## Tomasz2D

townyj said:


> Oh no... Red Demun ordered.


 
  
 What are your favorite music genres (or bands / performers) etc.?


----------



## Tomasz2D

luedriver said:


> not high fidelity music, I know, but yesterday, when by chance I heard tetris music, I felt like the lack of bass made it more faithful to the sound of a gameboy but 100x better detail


 
  
 This is like for every job you may need different tool.
 I have another example - Awei ES10 - nowdays it can be concidered low-fi earbud and generaly inferior in every aspect to Monk (Plus) for example. But I just love how electric guitars sound in this $4 bud - like they are on steroids.


----------



## Townyj

tomasz2d said:


> What are your favorite music genres (or bands / performers) etc.?




I listen to everything usually. Not huge on orchestral stuff, anything from metal/blues/rock/pop/electronic/instrumental and onwards.


----------



## Tomasz2D

townyj said:


> I listen to everything usually. Not huge on orchestral stuff, anything from metal/blues/rock/pop/electronic/instrumental and onwards.


 
  
 OK, let's see how you will like RED.


----------



## Townyj

tomasz2d said:


> OK, let's see how you will like RED.




Oh no... why do you say that? Haha... made me a little nervous now.


----------



## fairx

Did ClieOS update the list with new PS100 500ohm balance edition?


----------



## golov17

fairx said:


> Did ClieOS update the list with new PS100 500ohm balance edition?


number 8


----------



## Tomasz2D

townyj said:


> Oh no... why do you say that? Haha... made me a little nervous now.


 
 Fear no more  I just never assume that everybody must like something. Tomahawk and RX-1 are good examples of 50/50 dividers.


----------



## luedriver

golov17 said:


> number 8


 
 and a new category
  
  
*Category 2: THE CONTENDER*


----------



## Townyj

tomasz2d said:


> Fear no more  I just never assume that everybody must like something. Tomahawk and RX-1 are good examples of 50/50 dividers.




How would you rate the demun against those two and the cygnus? I was considering the edimun v3 but the price in shipping is a bit high.


----------



## Tomasz2D

townyj said:


> How would you rate the demun against those two and the cygnus? I was considering the edimun v3 but the price in shipping is a bit high.


 
  
 Short answer is that Cygnus, RX-1 and Red De'mun are all great buds for me - just each of them is different from one other. But I don't like Tomahawk very much.


----------



## Tomasz2D

fairx said:


> Did ClieOS update the list with new PS100 500ohm balance edition?


 
 And I see on the last picture that ClieOS got new DaiK DK-Song. I got it as well but with detachable cable. This is DaiK DK-Song next to DaiK DK-Jin:


----------



## music4mhell

Any impression on musicmaker dual driver?


----------



## Danneq

townyj said:


> How would you rate the demun against those two and the cygnus? I was considering the edimun v3 but the price in shipping is a bit high.




I just received my pair of Edimun V3 and while I am one of the few who love Tomahawk, I even prefer Tomahawk to Cygnus (although Cygnus technically is much better), Edimun V3 knocks out my Tomahawks without even breaking a sweat. To my ears, Edimun V3 are the best sub $100 earbuds. Period.

Cygnus should come second after V3 but my weakness for Tomahawk makes Cygnus come in third place. Then RX-1 in fourth place

And you should be able to either choose another shipping option than EMS for Edimun V3 if you contact Iriyan at Bengkel macro. Or perhaps they can cover some of the shipping costs...


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> And I see on the last picture that ClieOS got new DaiK DK-Song. I got it as well but with detachable cable. This is DaiK DK-Song next to DaiK DK-Jin:




How does the DK-song sound compared to DK-jin?


----------



## Kelzo

Could someone care to share how does PHEB01 sounds? Or how does it compare with monks or rx-1, would appreciatw it


----------



## tommo21

danneq said:


> I just received my pair of Edimun V3 and while I am one of the few who love Tomahawk, I even prefer Tomahawk to Cygnus (although Cygnus technically is much better), Edimun V3 knocks out my Tomahawks without even breaking a sweat. To my ears, Edimun V3 are the best sub $100 earbuds. Period.
> 
> Cygnus should come second after V3 but my weakness for Tomahawk makes Cygnus come in third place. Then RX-1 in fourth place
> 
> And you should be able to either choose another shipping option than EMS for Edimun V3 if you contact Iriyan at Bengkel macro. Or perhaps they can cover some of the shipping costs...




I also love the Tomahawk. I'm waiting on the Cygnus, Ting, Ty2 and also Zen 2.0. My Mojitos have been sold because of problems with fitting. Rx-1 was to me a dissapointment, but can be used preferably on talk-radio. Ty Hi-z 150ohm has nice deep bass and pretty wide soundstage, but a tad veiled in upper midrange and treble. Might need a bit more burn-in. Love the Monk +, but when comparing them to others there's a slight veil unveiled. But still when just using them to listen non critically they're fantastic and will get the most use regulary. Both with amp, and out and about. Going to see if I can order a candy or two on Sunday...or monday 1am here in Norway


----------



## Kelzo

Bu





fairx said:


> coming from monk+ which can be compared directly, TY HiZ 32ohm didn't have any surprises anymore, been there heard that..
> 
> Last night I listen to Alexis Cole - Dazzling Blue with TY I notice the vocals, transition from center left to center right is so true and focus, not so with my RX-1 nor Tomahawk. Can't really compared to monk+ because I loan monk to friend.
> 
> not really sure how to describe that, but if you're fan of the album you might notice this.


 But TY HI-Z is much cheaper and easier to drive than monks and with shipping from aliexpress it would be a lot more cheaper. Found a seller that even sold it for 4.30 usd (monks would cost me 8.7usd each with shipping). Haven't tried ty hi-z yet as it's still on the way here but im having hard time playing monks in my preferred listening volume on my smartphones, but I guess the monks has a little better build quality?


----------



## audio123

tayyab pirzada said:


> I actually like it a lot. But I'm not a bass-head. It has the most bass out of all the earbuds I've tried.


well its subjective  for me ve monk > kc08


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> How does the DK-song sound compared to DK-jin?


 
 They both sound almost identical but DK-Song offers little further placed soundstage (hence a little more air).


----------



## Tomasz2D

kelzo said:


> Could someone care to share how does PHEB01 sounds? Or how does it compare with monks or rx-1, would appreciatw it


 
 What do you want to use them for? At least 3 of your favorite tracks would be helpful.


----------



## MRK1

Hi everyone, I want to buy a pair of Shozy Cygnus, I've read a bunch of reviews and I think I'm going to like them a lot considering I absolutely adore the VE Monk.

 What is the best option for me to buy them from ITALY? Also do you think the cables are durable? I've had many earbuds fail at some point around the jack. And will I be able to send them back if I don't like them?
  
 Also if anyone has them and wants to sell them I'm obviously interested.


----------



## Tomasz2D

Besides I just don't want to know what kind of voodoo magic they made on that poor Edifier H180. I feel like I am possessed by demon now. I just took my Zen 2.0 and put it back after one minute. This is not good, this is really not good at all.


----------



## vapman

Did anyone know Brazilian Post is _fast as heck?_ Excellent trader @rggz shipped out a day or two before me, the package is here already, and my trade to him hasn't even left the country yet....
  
 Anyway the reason I post this is.....  I HAVE MX985's!!! muahahaha!!!


----------



## Doori

mrk1 said:


> Hi everyone, I want to buy a pair of Shozy Cygnus, I've read a bunch of reviews and I think I'm going to like them a lot considering I absolutely adore the VE Monk.
> 
> 
> What is the best option for me to buy them from ITALY? Also do you think the cables are durable? I've had many earbuds fail at some point around the jack. And will I be able to send them back if I don't like them?
> ...



You can buy it at Penonaudio aka bigbargainonline on eBay. And take Heigi donuts foam.
The cable is durable, only the color change quickly.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

tomasz2d said:


> Besides I just don't want to know what kind of voodoo magic they made on that poor Edifier H180. I feel like I am possessed by demon now. I just took my Zen 2.0 and put it back after one minute. This is not good, this is really not good at all.


 
 it is really quite a good low-fi warm bud. I gave mine away though. But if you want to see Edifier H180 reach its full potential, get the Edimun V3 which is the same bud but improved. I'm still waiting for mine in the mail.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

tayyab pirzada said:


> it is really quite a good low-fi warm bud. I gave mine away though. But if you want to see Edifier H180 reach its full potential, get the Edimun V3 which is the same bud but improved. I'm still waiting for mine in the mail.


 
 oh nvm I just read you are using Red D'emon


----------



## vapman




----------



## dearyon

vapman said:


>


 
 how it sounds?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


>


 
 thoughts?


----------



## Tomasz2D

tayyab pirzada said:


> the Edimun V3 which is the same bud but improved. I'm still waiting for mine in the mail.


 
  
 If Edimun is similar to Red De'mun DO NOT dare to use it even once. Bury it somewhere deep and forget about it.


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> Besides I just don't want to know what kind of voodoo magic they made on that poor Edifier H180. I feel like I am possessed by demon now. I just took my Zen 2.0 and put it back after one minute. This is not good, this is really not good at all.


 

 This is very, very true. Red De'Mun exacted its curse on me and I could no longer love the Zen!
  
 MX985 first impressions: really great, so detailed, so honest. But.... Red De'Mun sounds like the same but more musical!!!
  
 I am very happy having these both so far, the De'Mun is the more fun of the 2, but the sound signature is so close.
  
 MX985 is more airy, more soundstage, more precise. I am a basshead and can't get the bass I wish I could out of it, but this is so detailed and honest, I love it for that. I will use my De'Mun when I want the extra bass and musical sound. I will use my MX985 when I want to hear all the details with no forgiveness of source quality. This is what I was hoping for so I am happy. They have nice thick Hiegi on them.
  
 The only thing of the MX985 I hate: the damn volume slider Sennheiser always has. why must this be here?! I really might send my MX985 to De'Mun to have them recable my MX985 in all honesty.
  
 I am very very happy owning the MX986 but it makes the Red De'Mun even more impressive IMO as the Red De'Mun can only be described as a more musical MX985 with far better bass depth.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

tomasz2d said:


> If Edimun is similar to Red De'mun DO NOT dare to use it even once. Bury it somewhere deep and forget about it.


 
 they are completely different buds from my knowledge. De'mun is analytical while Edimun is warm.


----------



## Tomasz2D

tayyab pirzada said:


> they are completely different buds from my knowledge. De'mun is analytical while Edimun is warm.


 
 Maybe, but the point is you may loose interest in other earbuds when you hear any of them even once. And we do not want this happen because we love to try new earbuds! Bury it deep.


----------



## MRK1

doori said:


> You can buy it at Penonaudio aka bigbargainonline on eBay. And take Heigi donuts foam.
> The cable is durable, only the color change quickly.


 
  
 Thank you. Have you got any idea if they will accept a return if I don't like them?
  
 Also I assume the Cygnus will not need an amp and will sound good (WAY better than the Monk) even out of a smartphone. Is that the case?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

mrk1 said:


> Thank you. Have you got any idea if they will accept a return if I don't like them?
> 
> Also I assume the Cygnus will not need an amp and will sound good (WAY better than the Monk) even out of a smartphone. Is that the case?


 
 Cygnus does not need an amp


----------



## Frederick Wang

I see Demun is making another Black De'mun earbuds, from the look of it, it may solve the stiffness problem


----------



## kurtextrem

doori said:


> You can buy it at Penonaudio aka bigbargainonline on eBay. And take Heigi donuts foam.
> The cable is durable, only the color change quickly.


 
 not the monk+ foams?


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> I am very very happy owning the MX986 but it makes the Red De'Mun even more impressive IMO as the Red De'Mun can only be described as a more musical MX985 with far better bass depth.


 
  
 I still prefer MX985 for more complex music like orchestral. Red De'mun will seperate everything out which is not always a good thing. I want violins and cello to play unisono in harmony - and here MX985 works better. Also, MX985 will give you better philharmonic-like true sound. So for classical this is MX985 unless you really want to go deep analitical way with Red De'mun.


----------



## rggz

vapman said:


> The only thing of the MX985 I hate: the damn volume slider Sennheiser always has. why must this be here?! I really might send my MX985 to De'Mun to have them recable my MX985 in all honesty.
> 
> I am very very happy owning the MX986 but it makes the Red De'Mun even more impressive IMO as the Red De'Mun can only be described as a more musical MX985 with far better bass depth.


 

 I was wondering the same before I have traded with you, lol. Btw, there's this other excellent modder called_ B_Rabbithifi_ which makes a wonderful job with cables specific for high-end earbuds. An example here on the MX985s. It looks so smooth and clean over the de'mun cables (at least on the red).

 Contact:
 https://twitter.com/brabbithifi/
 https://www.facebook.com/B.RabbitHiEnd


----------



## dearyon

I know it that Red De'mun was really good
 If only the housing not hurting my ears, I will keep it and not buying anymore earbuds because it is such a good all-rounder for me
 it's just lack some punch on bass for EDM but that not a big problem, the bass is still accurate and controlled 
 but still curious, is it really beat Zen 2? in terms of what?
 if someone could compare those 2 using my favorite songs
 which one is the best I wonder?
 here are top 5 song that I listen to nowadays:

 Emilia (CV: Rie Takanashi) - Stay Alive
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-NuxWkYtlI

 EGOIST - All Alone with You
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hq0-47hyds

 Sangatsu no Phantasia - Hajimari no Sokudo
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHxD9ZxgyNs

 extend rarelity - Kimi ga Iru Basho e
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gJZTAY1uO4

 Chisuga Haruka - Ai no Uta -words of love-
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM5ToDRa_1E

 sorry if you don't like these songs but if someone have the time to compare the two it will be really helping me in and much appreciated
 only compare when you have the time, I don't want to disturb your listening time
 because I'm aiming for Zen 2 next and wondering if it a right move or not

@vapman @Tomasz2D


----------



## Tomasz2D

dearyon said:


> which one is the best I wonder?


 
  
 You just want A/B Red De'mun vs. Zen 2.0 duel? No problem I will check them tomorrow.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I feel like ClieOs' list is biased with his music preferences, which I feel are classical/orchestral mostly.
  
 My ultimate earbud is probably Zen 2. But the housing hurts my ears after a while. Well I guess we can't have everything. After that I pretty much only listen to the Cygnus these days, if only due to its superb sound and comfort.


----------



## dearyon

tomasz2d said:


> You just want A/B Red De'mun vs. Zen 2.0 duel? No problem I will check them tomorrow.


 
 yes
 since I ever have Red De'mun, I wonder how Zen 2 compare to it in your opinion from my music preference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 and thank you very much for your time


----------



## Doori

kurtextrem said:


> not the monk+ foams?



I have to try this way tomorrow :redface:


----------



## Fabi

danneq said:


> I just received my pair of Edimun V3 and while I am one of the few who love Tomahawk, I even prefer Tomahawk to Cygnus (although Cygnus technically is much better), Edimun V3 knocks out my Tomahawks without even breaking a sweat. To my ears, Edimun V3 are the best sub $100 earbuds. Period.
> 
> Cygnus should come second after V3 but my weakness for Tomahawk makes Cygnus come in third place. Then RX-1 in fourth place
> 
> And you should be able to either choose another shipping option than EMS for Edimun V3 if you contact Iriyan at Bengkel macro. Or perhaps they can cover some of the shipping costs...


Danneq, do you have Edimun V3 Gold or Rhodium ?


----------



## Danneq

fabi said:


> Danneq, do you have Edimun V3 Gold or Rhodium ?




Rhodium. Actually, I ordered them through e-mail just before they were posted on Bengkel macro's web page and I didn't specify what plug I wanted. I do not think there is any difference in sound between the different plugs, though...


----------



## kinetic758

tomasz2d said:


> Maybe, but the point is you may loose interest in other earbuds when you hear any of them even once. And we do not want this happen because we love to try new earbuds! Bury it deep.




I will most likely buy both.


----------



## kinetic758

tayyab pirzada said:


> I feel like ClieOs' list is biased with his music preferences, which I feel are classical/orchestral mostly.
> 
> My ultimate earbud is probably Zen 2. But the housing hurts my ears after a while. Well I guess we can't have everything. After that I pretty much only listen to the Cygnus these days, if only due to its superb sound and comfort.




Wow. I'm so used to you mentioning Mojito hehe. Isnt this hobby great with our neverending search for the absolute sound?

Listening to the Ostry KC08t now. It's a fun little earbud. Not great for any critical listening for sure, but will probably be the earbuds I use for planes, walking etc. due to its apparently durability and no hassle cord.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

danneq said:


> Rhodium. Actually, I ordered them through e-mail just before they were posted on Bengkel macro's web page and I didn't specify what plug I wanted. I do not think there is any difference in sound between the different plugs, though...


 
 according to Iriyiman (Bangkel Macro CEO I believe), the rhodium has more bass while gold has better treble. But most people prefer rhodium after listening to both.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kinetic758 said:


> Wow. I'm so used to you mentioning Mojito hehe. Isnt this hobby great with our neverending search for the absolute sound?
> 
> Listening to the Ostry KC08t now. It's a fun little earbud. Not great for any critical listening for sure, but will probably be the earbuds I use for planes, walking etc. due to its apparently durability and no hassle cord.


 
 Yes I am REALLY enjoying Zen 2 right now. And Cygnus is my daily driver. Mojito has taken a backseat for now.
  
 The KC08t cable is probably the best one I've ever seen. So slim yet soft and tangle-free. And yes, it's very V-shaped. Great bass and treble. Mids are average.


----------



## kinetic758

tayyab pirzada said:


> Yes I am REALLY enjoying Zen 2 right now. And Cygnus is my daily driver. Mojito has taken a backseat for now.
> 
> The KC08t cable is probably the best one I've ever seen. So slim yet soft and tangle-free. And yes, it's very V-shaped. Great bass and treble. Mids are average.




Man this thing is almost TOO V-shaped. With the some songs, I feel like my head is gonna pop.


----------



## vapman

rhodium here too, heard it was slightly better than the gold so i went for it.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kinetic758 said:


> Man this thing is almost TOO V-shaped. With the some songs, I feel like my head is gonna pop.


 
 perfect for pop or hip-hop though. and the bass is unbelievable for an earbud. thats why i like it. but yes, i dont use it much.


----------



## kinetic758

tayyab pirzada said:


> I actually like it a lot. But I'm not a bass-head. It has the most bass out of all the earbuds I've tried.




Yup. I'd liken it to a better version of the stock apple earpods. Good stuff.


----------



## vapman

rggz said:


>


 

 I will look more into their work. Thank you! some of their stuff looks really nice.
  
 I am seriously pining over the blue De'Mun and that is kind of what I have in mind for this MX985


----------



## Lionlian

It really bad really really bad, when compare another phone with the great mid of RX-1, even IM03 mid are plae in comparsion,
  
 I can totally see why it in #1 ranking thought.


----------



## base08

lionlian said:


> It really bad really really bad, when compare another phone with the great mid of RX-1, even IM03 mid are plae in comparsion,
> 
> I can totally see why it in #1 ranking thought.


 

 Even though I'm still in the process of slowly RX-1 burn-in (brain and driver), i can't see how some people complain about the lack of bass...
  
 It's precise and really present when needed, even the sub bass is sufficient and rumbles nicely on my head, but of course we won't ever emulate real life concert sub-bass with any head gear, as it's mostly felt on our chests.
  
 The only thing I can complain is a tiny bit of harshness on the higher frequencies, but maybe foam rolling can help tame it a bit.
  
 I feel they are transparent overall, and like most revealing, analytical earbuds it's also not forgiving with badly recorded albums.
  
 For me the biggest problem regarding earbuds and why they are so polarizing is their dependency on fit unlike IEM, which are usually more unanimous in their praise or dismissal.


----------



## Kelzo

tomasz2d said:


> What do you want to use them for? At least 3 of your favorite tracks would be helpful.


Well I do use rx-1 for mid centric tracks and ve monks for rock. Maybe bohemian and tracks with heavenly imaging?  does it have any major weaknesses and strength


----------



## gwompki

luedriver said:


> anyone here listens to chiptunes?
> 
> I feel like the rx-1's are just made for them, even without foams, I don't feel a lack of lows or highs, just very detailed tones...
> 
> ...




I'm not a huge chip tune fan, but I could definitely see the RX 1 doing well with that genre. My first pair of ear buds I ever owned came with the game boy I received as a gift in 1991. I used those buds for years from the time I was 11 until I was in high school. Wish I still had them for nostalgia's sake.

Listening to the RX1 a lot for the past 24 hours and see a huge improvement in soundstage. Probably brain burn in, but I am really loving these.


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> I feel like ClieOs' list is biased with his music preferences, which I feel are classical/orchestral mostly


----------



## vapman

luedriver said:


> perhaps something like a pokemon music record/vinyl it make it more justifiable


 
 Chiptune can be great but please do not promote this bootleg pokemon record. To make matters worse, it's recorded thru an emulator.
 The guy who had these made is involved in several other pokemon related scams and i am shocked nintendo did not notice this record or halt distribution of it.
  
 At least people willing to pay such crazy price for this LP should know they are  buying a product with no affiliation to nintendo or the pokemon company (and $50 is not even double of their list price, i remember when they were being sold to stores on the new releases list)


----------



## teston

Hi guys,
Where to buy red de'mon? I'm very interested in it.
I visited the bengkel website but see the edimun v3 only.


----------



## vapman

teston said:


> Hi guys,
> Where to buy red de'mon? I'm very interested in it.
> I visited the bengkel website but see the edimun v3 only.


 
 That's because it's by de'mun custom cable, not bengkel 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 https://www.instagram.com/kandela7700/
 https://www.facebook.com/Demun-1712608572317586/


----------



## teston

vapman said:


> That's because it's by de'mun custom cable, not bengkel
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/kandela7700/
> https://www.facebook.com/Demun-1712608572317586/



Tyvm!
So we ask him directly to buy it?


----------



## vapman

teston said:


> Tyvm!
> So we ask him directly to buy it?


 
  
 yes exactly, i sent him a message on facebook, and then we talked over email, bought with paypal


----------



## fairx

kelzo said:


> Bu
> But TY HI-Z is much cheaper and easier to drive than monks and with shipping from aliexpress it would be a lot more cheaper. Found a seller that even sold it for 4.30 usd (monks would cost me 8.7usd each with shipping). Haven't tried ty hi-z yet as it's still on the way here but im having hard time playing monks in my preferred listening volume on my smartphones, but I guess the monks has a little better build quality?




I cancel the order on cheaper ty seller because it took too long to process. I paid almost same as mknk+.

They're good for the price. Build quality, at least monk can take a beating. But I like ty cable. Maybe because it's new? Hope I don't have issue with connector. 
About the demun or edimun, I'm curious how exactly it's possible with cheap driver? Is it because the driver itself actually THAT good and it's build that limiting it's potential?


----------



## fairx

golov17 said:


>



Lol and agree!


----------



## Tomasz2D

kinetic758 said:


> I will most likely buy both.


 
  
 Shh... (whispering) i was tempted to buy both as well... but i am possessed by demon now... and my jealous Master doesn't allow me to buy new earbuds... and i must lull His vigilance because... i want a candy, i want a candy...
  
 ... but you are still free, you can still buy both...


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Instrument seperation slightly better on Rose Mojito than Zen 2 for classical music. But also more "boring" analytical sound.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Zen 2 better for jazz than Rose Mojito imho


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> I will look more into their work. Thank you! some of their stuff looks really nice.
> 
> I am seriously pining over the blue De'Mun and that is kind of what I have in mind for this MX985


 
  
 I have asked De'mun about the Blue and Black and he said these are prototypes and he will let me know about differences between them when they are finished projects.
  


kelzo said:


> Well I do use rx-1 for mid centric tracks and ve monks for rock. Maybe bohemian and tracks with heavenly imaging?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 OK, what I need from you is you write your 3 favorite tracks like for example:
 "Miles Davis - So What"
 etc.
  
 I am asking for this because in general I don't like DIY PHEB01 but it works for some music.


----------



## luedriver

vapman said:


> Chiptune can be great but please do not promote this bootleg pokemon record. To make matters worse, it's recorded thru an emulator.
> The guy who had these made is involved in several other pokemon related scams and i am shocked nintendo did not notice this record or halt distribution of it.
> 
> At least people willing to pay such crazy price for this LP should know they are  buying a product with no affiliation to nintendo or the pokemon company (and $50 is not even double of their list price, i remember when they were being sold to stores on the new releases list)


 
 sorry, I just did a quick search and choose the first album I found, just to prove a point, that even vgm from gameboys are worthy of recording onto vinyl apparently...
  
 I didn't know that it was emulated, I know that most of the vgm records are "bootleg", companies are so boring, they would never make something so niche
  
 but there are a lot more vgm vinyl/records, but for older games, sometimes there is no other option than "bootleg" on record
  
 also if you think 50 is a lot, don't look for vgm records on ebay


----------



## vapman

luedriver said:


> sorry, I just did a quick search and choose the first album I found, just to prove a point, that even vgm from gameboys are worthy of recording onto vinyl apparently...
> 
> I didn't know that it was emulated, I know that most of the vgm records are "bootleg", companies are so boring, they would never make something so niche
> 
> ...


 

 hey no worries, the market has a lot money in it so nothing personal, just want people to be sure they aren't supporting scammers. the price of the record market is a whole different story. it is just fun to listen to them with good earbuds.
  
 need to find a service to recable the mx985, hope de'mun replies soon!!! volume slider annoys me so much...


----------



## music4mhell

New MusicMaker KTONEKING TY2 Full Metal Housing Coaxial Double Dynamic Flat Head Earphone DIY HIFI Fever Metal Bass Headset
 http://s.aliexpress.com/IVVzQFFZ 
(from AliExpress Android)

Any imprrssions guys ?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> hey no worries, the market has a lot money in it so nothing personal, just want people to be sure they aren't supporting scammers. the price of the record market is a whole different story. it is just fun to listen to them with good earbuds.
> 
> need to find a service to recable the mx985, hope de'mun replies soon!!! volume slider annoys me so much...


 
 just ignore it? lol
 i think its kind of cool


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

music4mhell said:


> New MusicMaker KTONEKING TY2 Full Metal Housing Coaxial Double Dynamic Flat Head Earphone DIY HIFI Fever Metal Bass Headset
> http://s.aliexpress.com/IVVzQFFZ
> (from AliExpress Android)
> 
> Any imprrssions guys ?


 
 let me make a prediction and say it will be treble-heavy and super analytical sounding


----------



## audio123

tayyab pirzada said:


> let me make a prediction and say it will be treble-heavy and super analytical sounding


 

 I think it will be bassy


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> That's because it's by de'mun custom cable, not bengkel


 
  
 By the way, can you tell me who started all this De'mun thing here? I know it was you who was first to appreciate it and openly praise it here but how did you find out about it? Was is from Joy Boy via PM or on some other thread here?


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> By the way, can you tell me who started all this De'mun thing here? I know it was you who was first to appreciate it and openly praise it here but how did you find out about it? Was is from Joy Boy via PM or on some other thread here?


not me  


Spoiler


----------



## Tomasz2D

golov17 said:


> not me


 
  
 ... or at least not this time


----------



## Tomasz2D

golov17 said:


> not me


 
  
 But wait. I know you are reading other international forums and groups. Have you heared about De'mun earlier? Where was it?


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> ... or at least not this time


 

 I saw joy boy post about the old edimun very very long ago and said he liked it better than all his other buds.
  
 what interested me most is he said they transformed a cheap bud (H180) into possibly better than zen with some re-tuning and recable... so i was curious, as i knew what good a cheap earbud could be (thanks to monk)
  
 around that time I PM;d him to ask where he got it, he linked me to de'mun facebook page
 because of the time difference, it took a long time to get my order figured out and finalized, but eventually i got them and didn't shut up about them
 eventually i made the de'mun/bengkel macro thread (because they seem to be the major players in indonesian portable audio) to collect info about them there
 i was the first person outside indonesia to buy one though
 because of a miscommunication i got the red de'mun prototype instead of edimun but was not upset because the sound is great. biggest problem is stiffness of cable.


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> But wait. I know you are reading other international forums and groups. Have you heared about De'mun earlier? Where was it?


on FB (some Indonesian groups)


----------



## audio123

golov17 said:


> on FB (some Indonesian groups)


 
 https://www.facebook.com/groups/EarbudLoverIndonesia/


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> I saw joy boy post about the old edimun very very long ago and said he liked it better than all his other buds.


 
  
 But he specifically told you about Edimun, so how come you got De'mun? Was it miscommunication and Joy Boy directed you to wrong FB page or you got there by error yourself?
 Also eventually have you placed your order with De'mun or bengkelMACRO?


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> https://www.facebook.com/groups/EarbudLoverIndonesia/


not only..


----------



## audio123

golov17 said:


> not only..


 

 yeah there are many other grps!


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> But he specifically told you about Edimun, so how come you got De'mun? Was it miscommunication and Joy Boy directed you to wrong FB page or you got there by error yourself?
> Also eventually have you palced your order with De'mun or bengkelMACRO?


 

 ok it went like this: people were talking about edifier vs monk many months ago in this thread, that is when joy boy mentioned edimun for the first time on head fi. i quoted him and asked some questions, and then pm'd him because i could not find out how to contact the maker of edimun. he gave me the link to de'mun facebook page. at the time i had no knowledge of bengkel.
  
 i bothered joy boy a lot, he admitted he did not know too much about them, he only heard they were legendard on a local board he posted on (i forget what country joy boy is from, i think indonesia or malaysia, but i am sorry joy boy if i am wrong), and he told me they had never done business outside that group. so i was eager to find out what secrets lied in the modified edifier
  
 joy boy was not a big time poster here, i saw he had a small post count, but he always mentioned having learned about the gear he knew on local asian language message board - i can not speak most asian language so i really tried to try all the knowledge i could from him, eventually we hit a language barrier and he had told me everything he knew! so i knew i had to talk to de'mun directly
  
 i did not specifically order edimun from de'mun. i asked about their modified edifier, they said they did not have any edimun but were making a limited edition red de'mun if i wanted it.
  
 well i did not care it did not exactly have the "edimun" name, all i knew is there was a edifier mod from indonesia, so i asked for a shipping quote for usa and paid it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 after i paid de'mun for the red de'mun (knowing it was not exactly edimun), irgunawan sent me a message to introduce himself - he and kandela (the man who runs de'mun custom cable) are friends, so de'mun (kandela) told bengkel (irgunawan) i was asking about edimun, so he explained bengkel makes the edimun but they do work together although they are separate items.
  
 by that point i had already made many posts about how i too had bought edimun just like joy boy, that was my mistake - i did not realize they were completely different, despite both being edifier mod. after some more talking with bengkel i learned edimun v3 would not be ready for a while, but offered me a discount (free shipping) on bMac amp and iPod LOD as i was the first customer ever, for both company, outside indonesia. so all 3 items came to me by mail in the same box.
  
 i know reading this all it is a lot to take in - keep in mind from the day joy boy posted "edimun" for the first time, to getting de'mun contact info took a couple weeks.... from my first message to de'mun until my order was ready to be paid for was maybe 2 or 3 months, because of the language barrier, and it must not be forgotten, before i had tried to hard to establish contact with them, they had no name outside their region of asia. i was the first non-asia customer ever for both companies. it even took a few messages and 1 international phone call as mr kandela was so surprised someone from usa actually wanted to buy their earbud
  
 and that is the legend of how de'mun and bengkel came to be known on head-fi, is because i annoyed joy boy so much to tell me where he got it
  
 now i talk with irgunawan of bengkel on messenger from time to time, i check in to see how he is doing and what projects are happening. he is very busy! always taking great photographs of cute girls with bengkel audio gear and producing affordable gear for the indonesian audio scene. the side of my bMac amp has a logo which says, "indonesian portable audio"


----------



## kurtextrem

If anyone can answer this question, I'd be very happy:
 Edimun vs Red demun: Which of those sounds closer to Cygnus / VE (Monk or Asura) style, and which sounds closer to for example DIY DD bud?


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> ok it went like this: people were talking about edifier vs monk many months ago in this thread...


 
  
 OK, thank you for clarifying all points.
 I think this is very interesting story, because it looks like you have unveiled something very precious to international audio community.
 Once again - thank you!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Okay, so can anyone provide any suggestions on where should I be heading next given my collection?

 I am considering a Zen2, but the synergy problem worries me to no end.
 However, many have said that the De'mum (Red) is on par or even better than the Zen2.
 Then there is all the other Indonesian branded makers such as Campfred (Cypherus Audio), Heavenly Sounds...........
 Or the Music Maker DD or the Rose Masya.......
  
 Boy what a time to enjoy earbuds......so many choices......


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

audionewbi3 said:


> Okay, so can anyone provide any suggestions on where should I be heading next given my collection?
> 
> I am considering a Zen2, but the synergy problem worries me to no end.
> However, many have said that the De'mum (Red) is on par or even better than the Zen2.
> ...


 
 Get Zen 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
 I cannot control my enthusiasm for it. But you need a good amp.
  
 Edimun V3 is also on the way for me so I can compare then whether it is really better than Zen 2 (though I doubt it).
  
 This also depends on your music preferences, and also sound signature preference. Zen 2 is ultra musical sound signature (not exactly warm nor analytical, but musical) and sounds good with just about any genre, except in my opinion EDM (lacks sub-bass) and classical (instrument seperation is really good but not as good as Rose Mojito).


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Zen 2 sound signature is just completely different from every bud I've tried. It is neither warm nor cold. It is "musical". It really is in a class of its own and you need to hear it to believe it.


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> Zen 2 sound signature is just completely different from every bud I've tried. It is neither warm nor cold. It is "musical". It really is in a class of its own and you need to hear it to believe it.


+1000


----------



## Fabi

vapman said:


> ok it went like this: people were talking about edifier vs monk many months ago in this thread, that is when joy boy mentioned edimun for the first time on head fi. i quoted him and asked some questions, and then pm'd him because i could not find out how to contact the maker of edimun. he gave me the link to de'mun facebook page. at the time i had no knowledge of bengkel.
> 
> i bothered joy boy a lot, he admitted he did not know too much about them, he only heard they were legendard on a local board he posted on (i forget what country joy boy is from, i think indonesia or malaysia, but i am sorry joy boy if i am wrong), and he told me they had never done business outside that group. so i was eager to find out what secrets lied in the modified edifier
> 
> ...


 
My friend vapman, I guess it was your fate to contact Iriyan because he likes vaping a lot


----------



## Tomasz2D

audionewbi3 said:


> Then there is all the other Indonesian branded makers such as Campfred (Cypherus Audio), Heavenly Sounds...........
> Or the Music Maker DD or the Rose Masya.......
> Boy what a time to enjoy earbuds......so many choices......


 
  
 You are so right AudioNewbi - there is still so much to be explored there.
 One thing for sure:
 Indonesia and Thailand - countries of skilful earbuds masters.


----------



## music4mhell

tayyab pirzada said:


> Zen 2 sound signature is just completely different from every bud I've tried. It is neither warm nor cold. It is "musical". It really is in a class of its own and you need to hear it to believe it.


+999

No matter what ever i buy, i always come back to zen 2.


----------



## Kelzo

fairx said:


> I cancel the order on cheaper ty seller because it took too long to process. I paid almost same as mknk+.
> 
> They're good for the price. Build quality, at least monk can take a beating. But I like ty cable. Maybe because it's new? Hope I don't have issue with connector.
> About the demun or edimun, I'm curious how exactly it's possible with cheap driver? Is it because the driver itself actually THAT good and it's build that limiting it's potential?



Yea cheapest seller in aliexpress took so much time to ship but they've said that the manufacturer are making improvements to it or it just got out of stock just like in taobao. Guess demand for ty hi-z got pretty high considering penon is currently out of stock too. Good for them, a better competition means better products for consumers


----------



## Saoshyant

Hmm, should I buy the Toneking TKY2 from Penon...


----------



## FUYU

saoshyant said:


> Hmm, should I buy the Toneking TKY2 from Penon...




I'm gonna pull the trigger on these. 89$ seems like a good deal.


----------



## Saoshyant

It'd let me use up some ebay bucks, but I imagine I should wait for first impressions.


----------



## rggz

fuyu said:


> I'm gonna pull the trigger on these. 89$ seems like a good deal.


 

 Apparently, you can get them for $75. Golov's post.


----------



## FUYU

rggz said:


> Apparently, you can get them for $75. Golov's post.




I'm not ordering on Ali anymore.


----------



## golov17

Why not from AE?


----------



## base08

Damn my ty hi-z 32 experience QC wise is not being the best... 

First had one pair with a fragiliZed cable which ended up splitting in two... Dead pair. Then as I usually order two pairs for these ultra low budget earphones, I started using the other pair but this one had crackling noise whenever I twisted or touched the 3,5 connector. I kept using this one, and requested another pair free of charge (shipping fees on me) from Penon which they complied... 

One month later the one I was using started having A lot of driver flex on one side, noticeable less bass impact, and suddenly stop working. Dead pair again. The substitution pair came luckily the day before, but again this pair has the same connector problem making that annoying crackling noise which also leads to temporarily muffled music, losing some part of the signal.

Messaged again penon to send me another pair, hopefully from this new fabled batch with newer connectors, hopefully for free... 

Will report after how it went.

Anyone with similar story as mine?


----------



## FUYU

golov17 said:


> Why not from AE?




I still have open business with Jim.


----------



## Tomasz2D

dearyon said:


> I know it that Red De'mun was really good
> If only the housing not hurting my ears, I will keep it and not buying anymore earbuds because it is such a good all-rounder for me
> it's just lack some punch on bass for EDM but that not a big problem, the bass is still accurate and controlled
> but still curious, is it really beat Zen 2? in terms of what?
> ...


 
  
 Coming back to your post.
  
 So you already own Red De'mun, you have heard it even more then once - you have crossed the door already. This is one way road I am afraid - there is no coming back. Welcome to demon's realm.
  
 I have checked your songs and when switching to Zen 2.0 from RED you will loose a lot of clarity and details and you will get impression of muffled and sort of "under blanket" sound. When you keep listening to Zen your brain will slowly compensate and that sentation will partally pass but not completely. RED has already left strong imprint on you and you will still remember what is missing in Zen. And you need an amp for Zen 2.0. But you will get more bass and more swinging sound in Zen. For music that you posted I think you can easily skip Zen 2.0.
  
 * Chord Mojo + Monk Plus foams on Zen


----------



## golov17

fuyu said:


> I still have open business with Jim.


 Jim good guy..


----------



## FUYU

golov17 said:


> Jim good guy..




Yes, he is credible. Still, I have an issue which needs to be resolved, thus my aliexpress spree has come to a hold for now.


----------



## Saoshyant

For budget earbuds, I really do love the Edifier h180p with +10 bass on rockbox xDuoo X3. It's certainly a fun sound. Lately I've been using vocal & detail buds, so the change of pace is refreshing.

Also, for people that have this earbud, did it come with a remarkably short extension cable, or does it have another purpose?


----------



## Willber

base08 said:


> I started using the other pair but this one had crackling noise whenever I twisted or touched the 3,5 connector.


 
 Give the plug a good clean with a dry cloth (you could use electrical cleaner if you wanted) then insert it and turn it backwards and forwards a few times to improve the contacts. This usually works for me when I've had this issue.


----------



## kurtextrem

tomasz2d said:


> I have checked your songs and when switching to Zen 2.0 from RED you will loose a lot of clarity and details and you will get impression of muffled and sort of "under blanket" sound. When you keep listening to Zen your brain will slowly compensate and that sentation will partally pass but not completely. RED has already left strong imprint on you and you will still remember what is missing in Zen. And you need an amp for Zen 2.0. But you will get more bass and more swinging sound in Zen. For music that you posted I think you can easily skip Zen 2.0.


 
 Wow!
 Now only if you had Edimun...


----------



## springbay

base08 said:


> ...crackling noise whenever I twisted or touched the 3,5 connector...


 
  
 Same with my pair ordered from Easy. But the buds were so cheap that I didn't bother to make a complaint.


----------



## Tomasz2D

kurtextrem said:


> Wow!
> Now only if you had Edimun...


 
 I am not planning to buy one unless somebody will confirm that Edimun can offer me different sound but at Red De'mun level. In fact I am slowing down with new earbuds purchasing already. You have to wait for vapman - he should be first to own both here. And kinetic758 was also considering buying both.


----------



## base08

willber said:


> Give the plug a good clean with a dry cloth (you could use electrical cleaner if you wanted) then insert it and turn it backwards and forwards a few times to improve the contacts. This usually works for me when I've had this issue.




Thank you Willber! 

Will definitely try the tip... The first pair which had the same crackling, with some wiggling around on the jack became better and better, so may I assume this so called gold plating is instead of improving connectivity is making it worst?

And regarding the driver flex? Did I put to much pressure when getting the right fix and dislodged slowly some magnet?

Can this happen to more expensive earbuds?


----------



## Willber

base08 said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Give the plug a good clean with a dry cloth (you could use electrical cleaner if you wanted) then insert it and turn it backwards and forwards a few times to improve the contacts. This usually works for me when I've had this issue.
> ...


 
  
 I think it more because of grease, sweat or other residue affecting the contacts.
  
 I'm not the best person to ask about driver flex but I thought it was due to pressure changes with IEMs due to the sealed fit in the ear (I have experienced this a few times). I haven't heard of it affecting earbuds before which do not seal in the same way.


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> For budget earbuds, I really do love the Edifier h180p with +10 bass on rockbox xDuoo X3. It's certainly a fun sound. Lately I've been using vocal & detail buds, so the change of pace is refreshing.
> 
> Also, for people that have this earbud, did it come with a remarkably short extension cable, or does it have another purpose?


4-pole IOS - Android


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tayyab pirzada said:


> Get Zen 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I cannot control my enthusiasm for it. But you need a good amp.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


golov17 said:


> +1000


 
  
 Yes, I know from all the praise here that the Zen 2 performs extraordinary and is a fantastic earbud. But.......and a very big but, the earbud like some have mention is extremely picky about amp and I highly doubt that my collection of portable amps will be enough to make them shine. (I currently have no intention of getting a desktop setup). 
  


tomasz2d said:


> You are so right AudioNewbi - there is still so much to be explored there.
> One thing for sure:
> Indonesia and Thailand - countries of skilful earbuds masters.


 
 Couldn't agree more myself!
  


music4mhell said:


> +999
> 
> No matter what ever i buy, i always come back to zen 2.


 
 My problem is again amp synergy...
  


tomasz2d said:


> Coming back to your post.
> 
> So you already own Red De'mun, you have heard it even more then once - you have crossed the door already. This is one way road I am afraid - there is no coming back. Welcome to demon's realm.
> 
> ...


 
 Seems so far that the Red demun is a "Zen" killer. Maybe I should make the Red demum my next upgrade.....or just wait for the black demum......



 OR I can just sit patiently and wait for Blox to release their flagship this year........(hopefully)


----------



## dearyon

tomasz2d said:


> Coming back to your post.
> 
> So you already own Red De'mun, you have heard it even more then once - you have crossed the door already. This is one way road I am afraid - there is no coming back. Welcome to demon's realm.
> 
> ...


 
 somehow, I know this will coming lol
 Red De'mun is really good, neutral with a bit tilt toward fun side
 the song EGOIST - All Alone with You and Emilia - Stay Alive is prone to muddiness in my ears and Red De'mun do a decent job on one of that song (the latter is still not released when I have it)
 with bassy earbuds like Zen 1 it will be muddy, that is the reason I use it naked nowadays
 but the Zen 1 upper mid and highs just could fatigue me easily and that is not good because I like to listen for a long time
 Zen 1 really need a good amping I guess

 thank you very much for sharing impression 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I think I will not skip Zen 2 for curiosity sake, though I will hold on its purchase for now


----------



## vapman

dearyon you have a Zen 1? Those are not so easy to find and known to sound different to the zen 2. I have never heard Zen 1... But I eventually sold Zen 2 because red demun was better to my ears, especially strength of bass


----------



## dearyon

vapman said:


> @dearyon you have a Zen 1? Those are not so easy to find and known to sound different to the zen 2. I have never heard Zen 1... But I eventually sold Zen 2 because red demun was better to my ears, especially strength of bass


 
 yes, I have it. Listening with it right now while typing this


----------



## vapman

dearyon said:


> yes, I have it. Listening with it right now while typing this


 
 JEALOUS! Can I have dibs if you ever sell it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I have never heard it but i have read it said many times, that zen 1 and zen 2 have quite different sound, so i don't think the zen vs de'mun comparison has as much relevance knowing you have the zen 1...
 need someone with the zen1 or seahf 320 v1 to chime in  i guess.


----------



## dearyon

vapman said:


> JEALOUS! Can I have dibs if you ever sell it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You want it? I could contact one of my friends, maybe he still have NOS Zen 1
 and I will contact you if I want to sell this
 but for now I want to keep it, If I ever sell Zen 1, I will trade with your Zen 2 I guess

 I have to agree to most reviewer here especially ClieOS and Brooko
 best bass quality and Pace, Rhythm and Timing in an earbuds with suprisingly good vocal
 U shaped sound signature
 and actually have the same problem as sir Brooko, those peak around 2 kHz he say...
 yeah its peaky with some female vocal, fatiguing, especially for me who listen to those Japanese female vocal
 that is why I will consider to trade this for Zen 2


----------



## jant71

Was on Penon today and wonder, if anyone knows, what is the difference(if any) between the Hiegi foams and the Feng foams?? Thanks!


----------



## gwompki

Just curious if anyone has tried Zen 2 with Fiio E12A? Seems like they would pair well, but with all of the talk about Zen 2 being picky, thought I would ask.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I just came to a realization.
  
 I loved the Mojito due to its ultra detail, tight bass, and epic soundstage. The soundstage is what sold it for me. I had never heard that type of sound from an earbud before.
  
 But now that I've tried the Zen 2, I realize it almost has the same amount of detail (though not quite), better bass, and also epic soundstage, but with the added benefit of having non-recessed mids and a mellow sound signature that is good for most musical types.
  
 I tried an orchestral/classical work in DSD with Mojito and Zen 2, and the Mojito is the clear winner due to its better detail and instrument seperation. But then I tried jazz, hip-hop, pop, and R&B, and the Zen 2 is the clear winner to me. Mojito is just too clinical sounding with recessed mids.
  
 So I think the type of music you listen to is a big factor as well.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Also, Lee from Venture Electronics just confirmed that anyone who has a Zen 2 will be able to trade it in for a VE Nirvana (which is not out yet), which will be the TOTL earbud by VE, and remain as such for a number of years.


----------



## dearyon

tayyab pirzada said:


> Also, Lee from Venture Electronics just confirmed that anyone who has a Zen 2 will be able to trade it in for a VE Nirvana (which is not out yet), which will be the TOTL earbud by VE, and remain as such for a number of years.


 
 wow!
 Lee is really a generous person 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 maybe I could trade my Zen 1 with Zen 2 too...


----------



## Saoshyant

guess I have no reason to not order a zen 2 now


----------



## kinetic758

dearyon said:


> wow!
> 
> Lee is really a generous person
> 
> maybe I could trade my Zen 1 with Zen 2 too...




I wonder if they'll have a Black version and allow us to trade in a Zen 2 Black.


----------



## golov17

kinetic758 said:


> I wonder if they'll have a Black version and allow us to trade in a Zen 2 Black.


 Black Edition owners will have the best discount, IMHO


----------



## Sempenyi

want to share some about some indonesian earbud builder/modder.

*notes : some of them maybe won't sell overseas probably due to languange*
  
 Crow Audio (facebook.com/CrowsDen)
  - Crow (old monk mod)
  - Raven (prototype)
  
 ELI (Earbud Lovers Indonesia) Audio (facebook.com/EliAudioIndonesia)
  - Saida
  - Asti
  - Sabia
  - Sheli
  
 De'mun (facebook.com/demuncustomcable)
  - Red De’mun (Philips SHE3800 mods)
  - Blue De’mun (Prototype)
  - Black De’mun (Prototype)
  
 Bengkel Macro (facebook.com/bengkelmacro)
  - Edimun V2 (Edifier h180 mods with gold oyaide)
  - Edimun V3 (Edifier h180 mods with rhodium oyaide)
  
 Heavenly Sounds (facebook.com/heavenlysoundsjkt)
  - Concerto
  - Cadenza
  - Beat
  - Groove
  - Accent
  8 more lineup
  
 Kanzenoka “founder of earbud lovers Indonesia community” (facebook.com/sugeng.kanzenoka)
  - Yinyang
  - Shiro
  - Nganu
  - Red-G
  
 RJ Audio (facebook.com/ricky.jfunk)
  - iVoice
  
 Eight Equal D (facebook.com/gonjack.imam)
  - Hyper
  
 ABnormal Sounds (facebook.com/ABnormalSoundLabs)
  - Abnormal Diomnes
  
 Laki Audio (facebook.com/LAKI_Audio-GEN-1745156262415073)
  - Raid
  
 Tunes Audio (facebook.com/Tunes-Audio-1185585988136511)
  - Tunes

 It's just a few of them that i can list.
 there is a lot more of them and new ones is keep showing.
 i'll update more soon.

 send PM if you need anything more from me.


----------



## vapman

I did not  know the Red was Philips based. Good to know!  the shell seems so  much like an edifier though ?


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> I did not  know the Red was Philips based. Good to know!  the shell seems so  much like an edifier though ?




Ditto. I thought both the Edimun and De'mun were based on the Edifier.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

sempenyi said:


> want to share some about some indonesian earbud builder/modder.
> 
> *notes : some of them maybe won't sell overseas probably due to languange*
> 
> ...


 
 Wondering how does the ELI earbuds sound like? I have the Sabia and is quite impressed with the bass.


----------



## Sempenyi

vapman said:


> I did not  know the Red was Philips based. Good to know!  the shell seems so  much like an edifier though ?


 
*update : philips one priced only half the edifier.*

 they were similiar or something. probably rebranded. probably just same shell, kind of common in earbud realm. @vapman @kinetic758 @AudioNewbi3


Spoiler: Philips






  


Spoiler: Edifier


----------



## Sempenyi

audionewbi3 said:


> Wondering how does the ELI earbuds sound like? I have the Sabia and is quite impressed with the bass.


 
  sabia V1 was good. nice bass and good soundstage. but mid is quite problematic. sabia V2 has a different soundsig, it's more V shaped from what i heard. some says V1 is better. V3 is coming soon.

 Saida is allrounder, kind of upgrade from sabia. slower bass extension but more detail texture and depth.
 Asti is more like opposite from the rest. it's sweet vocal earbuds. never tried.

 don't know about sheli. it's still in prototype. but it's custom by order with sabia driver.


----------



## Townyj

sempenyi said:


> sabia V1 was good. nice bass and good soundstage. but mid is quite problematic. sabia V2 has a different soundsig, it's more V shaped from what i heard. some says V1 is better. V3 is coming soon.
> 
> 
> Saida is allrounder, kind of upgrade from sabia. slower bass extension but more detail texture and depth.
> ...




Ive got the Sabia V2 incoming. Will comment when it arrives


----------



## kinetic758

A more general question. Why is it that certain countries like China and Indonesia have small makers that create great, enthusiast earbuds, while they seem all but abandoned in other countries? I am extremely thankful that we can still buy what appears to be a dying breed. Are earbuds (and the demand for them) more common in these countries that allow such markets to exist? Just curious, because it's becoming rare to impossible to buy a decent pair of earbuds here and it seems just a small set of manufacturers are taking earbuds seriously.


----------



## vapman

sempenyi said:


> *update : philips one priced only half the edifier.*
> 
> they were similiar or something. probably rebranded. probably just same shell, kind of common in earbud realm. @vapman @kinetic758 @AudioNewbi3
> 
> ...


 

 Very cool, very good to know, it is funny because i have Edifier H180 here, and not until I looked at the Philips on Google did i realize that's actually the one Red De'mun is! great info man!


----------



## fairx

willber said:


> Give the plug a good clean with a dry cloth (you could use electrical cleaner if you wanted) then insert it and turn it backwards and forwards a few times to improve the contacts. This usually works for me when I've had this issue.




Yes I also have the problem initially. A good spray of contact cleaner did the job.


----------



## Sempenyi

kinetic758 said:


> A more general question. Why is it that certain countries like China and Indonesia have small makers that create great, enthusiast earbuds, while they seem all but abandoned in other countries? I am extremely thankful that we can still buy what appears to be a dying breed. Are earbuds (and the demand for them) more common in these countries that allow such markets to exist? Just curious, because it's becoming rare to impossible to buy a decent pair of earbuds here and it seems just a small set of manufacturers are taking earbuds seriously.


 
 it's just my opinion.
  
 in indonesia earbuds community (known as Earbud Lovers Indonesia in facebook) is growing since before "famous manufacturer" like sennheiser ATH sony and even aiwa leave earbuds realms. the community is growing and demand for high end earbuds is getting bigger and bigger. waiting for famous manufacturer seems pretty hopeless.

 some people starts with modding famous earbuds like monk/asura/zen and edifier and even blox in order for getting better and better sound. some of them doesn't even have a name for their creation and even brands, but it ridiculously sounds good.

 keypoint is seeking perfect sound, it doesn't matter about brands.


----------



## dearyon

kinetic758 said:


> A more general question. Why is it that certain countries like China and Indonesia have small makers that create great, enthusiast earbuds, while they seem all but abandoned in other countries? I am extremely thankful that we can still buy what appears to be a dying breed. Are earbuds (and the demand for them) more common in these countries that allow such markets to exist? Just curious, because it's becoming rare to impossible to buy a decent pair of earbuds here and it seems just a small set of manufacturers are taking earbuds seriously.


 
 firstly because Indonesia still a developing country not the majority of people in these country could afford expensive hi-end gear
 with the IEMs and Headphone become more and more expensive in terms of priceerformance ratio earbuds is really a sweet spot on here

 secondly, earbuds is easily mod-able, so someone could easily improve some cheap earbuds with re-cabling and re-tuning the driver

 third is comfort, a lot of indonesian drive motorcycle using their helmet while listening to music including me
 so don't expect you got the level of comfort that an earbuds provide in the same price range from an IEMs
 cheap IEMs will never comfortable when you use it with your helmet and that is not safe to considering the noise isolation
 since in Indonesia, the traffic is always crowded, you have to be wary of you surrounding sound when driving

 I told you a story, once I regretted buying a $30-ish IEMs (which is expensive for me) when that cheap Monk effortlessly blowing them away
 I'm sure there is no IEM or headphone that could reach Monk priceerformance ratio (and even earbuds itself)

 so in short priceerformance ratio is critical in Indonesia lol
 that is all I can say from my perspective as an Indonesian


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

sempenyi said:


> it's just my opinion.
> 
> in indonesia earbuds community (known as Earbud Lovers Indonesia in facebook) is growing since before "famous manufacturer" like sennheiser ATH sony and even aiwa leave earbuds realms. the community is growing and demand for high end earbuds is getting bigger and bigger. waiting for famous manufacturer seems pretty hopeless.
> 
> ...




Where can u get modded Blox?


----------



## vapman

How about we first find a source for any Blox at all aside from waiting on the used market, hahaha.


----------



## Sempenyi

tayyab pirzada said:


> Where can u get modded Blox?


 
 i don't really know if they're still exist this day since blox is super hard to find this now. seen the last one long time ago.


----------



## kinetic758

sempenyi said:


> it's just my opinion.
> 
> in indonesia earbuds community (known as Earbud Lovers Indonesia in facebook) is growing since before "famous manufacturer" like sennheiser ATH sony and even aiwa leave earbuds realms. the community is growing and demand for high end earbuds is getting bigger and bigger. waiting for famous manufacturer seems pretty hopeless.
> 
> ...







dearyon said:


> firstly because Indonesia still a developing country not the majority of people in these country could afford expensive hi-end gear
> 
> with the IEMs and Headphone become more and more expensive in terms of priceerformance ratio earbuds is really a sweet spot on here
> 
> ...


 

Thank you for the thoughtful and insightful replies. It really gives me a new perspective on this hobby.


----------



## vapman

I thought another reason is the prevalence of apple earbuds, everybody knows them.
  
 nobody really thinks, "i want better performance so i wonder what earbuds are on the market", western people tend to go for over ear style or in ear style. also the priceerformance ratio is not as crucial for western spenders, it is the true reality, so it's easier in the west for companies to coax buyers into going for the IEM or over ear form factor rather than earbuds. people associate earbuds with low quality sound.
  
 i think, at least from what i have read & heard from others, is that in eastern audio communities this bias against the form factor of associating it with a quantifiable amount of quality does not exist.
  
 The monk got tons of western head-fi people into earbuds because nobody was doing it. like above posts have said, all major companies have given up on earbuds, and the main reason to consider a $5 earbud is because for western buyers, that is nothing, we throw away more money every day most likely... so lots of people bought it, were impressed, and asked themselves if they spent as much as they were willing to, how much better the sound can get. so really i give VE most of the credit for, if nothing else, westerners taking earbuds seriously again.
  
 of course there have always been the people who paid high price for yuin 10 years ago, as well as the people who collected vintage sony & aiwa top end earbuds, and it was very hotly debated on whether or not any of the models were worth their asking price. i had the cheapest yuin a very long time ago, and liked it but only on certain genres. i know bunches of people who were about to spend $60 on the low end yuin 10 years ago - at the time yuin was the only company doing high end earbuds... many people had complaints about how specific the sound signature was, many had reservations about how good they were for the $, and some loved them. but their lowest end model was always around $60, so the $5 monk is really the biggest thing since the yuin happened. i do remember when yuin came out with their PK series earbuds, they were the only option aside from Sennheiser MX980/985 which cost just as much as the top end PK series, and the Yuin along with the high end Sennheiser were considered the only earbuds notably better than apple earbuds. the market of good budget gear did not exist then simply speaking.
  
 i will not deny i am kicking myself in retrospect because i remember seeing this thread around the time it was created, could have got in on zen 1 and blox during their times! but i did not believe earbuds could be that great, and i started getting into electrostatic stuff, after the monk i have pretty much gone all earbuds except my jvc sz2000, i will keep those headphones forever 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 sorry for the wall of text.


----------



## Tomasz2D

sempenyi said:


> *notes : some of them maybe won't sell overseas probably due to languange*
> ...
> De'mun (facebook.com/demuncustomcable)
> - Red De’mun (Philips SHE3800 mods)


 
  
 Great list. Thank you.
  
 Some of them just seem to not care to sell overseas. For exaple I have contacted Heavenly Sounds before and the answer was quick and simple "Still havent yet any idea to send outside country". So it wasn't language barrier.
  
 As for Red De'mun I have also already inquired about its roots and the answer was "Yes red demon is base on Edifier H180 but we did a tweaking and tunning on the driver and use our custom cable on it." So he wants to have some secrets or he uses both Edimun and Philips as a platform. It is documented somewhere that it is Philips?
  
 As for your list, do you have any straight recommendations as what models/makers should be checked first?


----------



## Tomasz2D

kinetic758 said:


> A more general question. Why is it that certain countries like China and Indonesia have small makers that create great, enthusiast earbuds, while they seem all but abandoned in other countries?


 
  
 Some good points have been already made by dearyon and vapman, I will just add these two points why earbuds have been abandoned by BIG:
 1. This is much easier to ask big margin premium 1000 USD price for big cans with wood/aluminium/leather finish - that look like your room furniture and have heavy-feel in your hands. Only well-informed customer is going to spend 100 USD on earbuds and how many of such people exist?
 2. Big cans are walking company logo advertisments. How to display company logo on tiny earbuds?


----------



## AudioNewbi3 (Feb 12, 2018)

sempenyi said:


> sabia V1 was good. nice bass and good soundstage. but mid is quite problematic. sabia V2 has a different soundsig, it's more V shaped from what i heard. some says V1 is better. V3 is coming soon.
> 
> Saida is allrounder, kind of upgrade from sabia. slower bass extension but more detail texture and depth.
> Asti is more like opposite from the rest. it's sweet vocal earbuds. never tried.
> ...


 
 Thanks for the informative reply mate!



sempenyi said:


> it's just my opinion.
> 
> in indonesia earbuds community (known as Earbud Lovers Indonesia in facebook) is growing since before "famous manufacturer" like sennheiser ATH sony and even aiwa leave earbuds realms. the community is growing and demand for high end earbuds is getting bigger and bigger. waiting for famous manufacturer seems pretty hopeless.
> 
> ...


 




dearyon said:


> firstly because Indonesia still a developing country not the majority of people in these country could afford expensive hi-end gear
> with the IEMs and Headphone become more and more expensive in terms of priceerformance ratio earbuds is really a sweet spot on here
> 
> secondly, earbuds is easily mod-able, so someone could easily improve some cheap earbuds with re-cabling and re-tuning the driver
> ...


 
From recabling to creating an entire earbud from scratch with selling parts for earbud creation in between.

 Group is also immensely helpful despite the language barrier!


----------



## Sempenyi

tomasz2d said:


> Great list. Thank you.
> 
> Some of them just seem to not care to sell overseas. For exaple I have contacted Heavenly Sounds before and the answer was quick and simple "Still havent yet any idea to send outside country". So it wasn't language barrier.
> 
> ...


 
 i read it somewhere before from a reviewer about the philips as red demun but if the makers say so then it's edifier.
 the shell is more similiar to philips than edifier as @vapman said above. or maybe they were just using the shell without the stock driver.

 i don't really want to recommend something since i am noob in audio 

 Update to the list :
  
 Cypherus Audio X (facebook.com/CypherusAudio)
  - Cypherus Campfred


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I was looking for high-end earbuds everywhere. This group basically was the only solution.


----------



## Danneq

7 or 8 years ago when I first got in to good quality earbuds the only companies making good sounding earbuds were Yuin, Sennheiser and AKG. Sony had given up earbuds by that time. Sennheiser had good sounding buds for a somewhat low price. AKG had slightly better ones in K14P and later K319. I bought my first pair of Yuin PK3 for something like $45-50 with shipping included and I thought it was worth it. Then I got PK2 for something like $65-70 with shipping included and I liked them much better than PK3. If I wanted to find something better from there, my only choice was to go the vintage route and find old Sony and Aiwa TOTL earbuds. When Sennheiser MX980 was released around 2011 I loved it and it's still on third place on my list.

 Around 2013-14 We started to get DIY earbuds from China. Dasetn was one of the first and there was quite a hype despite the questionable quality control of the earbuds and the somewhat strange behavior of the Dasetn people. The DIY earbud explosion we are seeing now is like rain following a long drought. Together with smaller makers such as VE who make $5 earbuds that easily beat Yuin earbuds that cost 10 times as much.
 Of course Blox was there from around 2001-2012, but they always had a low profile and their earbuds were always released in very limited batches.

 As an earbud fan for around 8 years, this is the best time yet for me. New stuff to discover all the time and at good prices.


 Edit: while I no longer put Yuin earbud high in my lists we still have to remember that they were the first Chinese company who brought back earbuds and made good sounding ones.


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Granted, my mx880,980 k319 is OK, but in this time is a blessing for all earbuds lovers, as I


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> 7 or 8 years ago when I first got in to good quality earbuds the only companies making good sounding earbuds were Yuin, Sennheiser and AKG. Sony had given up earbuds by that time. Sennheiser had good sounding buds for a somewhat low price. AKG had slightly better ones in K14P and later K319. I bought my first pair of Yuin PK3 for something like $45-50 with shipping included and I thought it was worth it. Then I got PK2 for something like $65-70 with shipping included and I liked them much better than PK3. If I wanted to find something better from there, my only choice was to go the vintage route and find old Sony and Aiwa TOTL earbuds. When Sennheiser MX980 was released around 2011 I loved it and it's still on third place on my list.
> 
> Around 2013-14 We started to get DIY earbuds from China. Dasetn was one of the first and there was quite a hype despite the questionable quality control of the earbuds and the somewhat strange behavior of the Dasetn people. The DIY earbud explosion we are seeing now is like rain following a long drought. Together with smaller makers such as VE who make $5 earbuds that easily beat Yuin earbuds that cost 10 times as much.
> Of course Blox was there from around 2001-2012, but they always had a low profile and their earbuds were always released in very limited batches.
> ...


 
 I am lucky to be in this generation 
 So much options, but not enough money


----------



## Tomasz2D

tomasz2d said:


> 2. Big cans are walking company logo advertisments. How to display company logo on tiny earbuds?


 
  
 And as the sidenote about company logo. You know that '70 bigger Fender Stratocaster guitar headstock. People think that this was done to improve sound but the true is - the new owner CBS company - decider to enlarge it to accomodate bigger Fender Stratocaster logo to be better visible in b&w TV.
 Not quite off-topick becouse I listen to a lot of Strat in my earbuds


----------



## Saoshyant

Sempenyi I must admit I'm quite impressed with the Crow Audio earbud I have. I'd have a hard time deciding between it and the Shozy Cygnus for vocals.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I pretty much only use Cygnus unamped and Zen 2 amped these days. Waiting for my HD600 full size cans to come in (and I suspect they will sound very similar to the Zen 2)


----------



## Tomasz2D

saoshyant said:


> @Sempenyi I must admit I'm quite impressed with the Crow Audio earbud I have. I'd have a hard time deciding between it and the Shozy Cygnus for vocals.


 
  
 I think I remember you own Red De'mun as well but you sit so quiet about it, seems you don't like it very much (cable stiffness - but is it the only reason?).


----------



## Saoshyant

The cable stiffness is enough on mine that it makes it very difficult to just stay in ear. Fins can keep it in place, but create discomfort, so I'll just grab another bud instead. I want to give it a try, but I just need to figure out a better way.


----------



## vapman

Full hiegi foam and bending the cable to make it more flexible helped me a lot. Still falls out once in a while but is still continuing to get softer as time goes on.. A little picky on how it sits in your ear but far better than when they showed up


----------



## fairx

vapman said:


> Full hiegi foam and bending the cable to make it more flexible helped me a lot. Still falls out once in a while but is still continuing to get softer as time goes on.. A little picky on how it sits in your ear but far better than when they showed up


 
 Can they be worn over ear?


----------



## golov17

fairx said:


> Can they be worn over ear?


Hardly, rigid cable for the best sound


----------



## Saoshyant

I'll figure something out with the Demun at some point, but at least I'm not lacking for alternatives to listen to.  Think it's time to play with the MX985 again, it's been a little while.


----------



## luedriver

it was kinda surprising to see someone mention red'mun being philips and not edifer, but they are so similar looking, maybe the only difference is the logo, but golov17 already has debunked that theory, when saying he prefers she3800 to edifer's h180 (if I am not mistaken)
  
 I have been using my she3800's for movies and series (tv shows) with add bass and 75ohm adapter and feels/seems like the the bass extends lower, everything in movies seems more real and you can almost feel the footsteps on wooden floors
  
 they're are not as bass heavy as the t-music with +10 bass, they have the added punch
  
  
 side note, kinda makes me think twice about the coso cncept mod on the she3800's, if they sound as good as the red'mun or if they are similar, I guess we'll never know 
  
  
 as for now, just waiting for the cygnus and seahf's, kinda getting hyped on zen 2.0's and enjoying she3800's with movies


----------



## AudioNewbi3

HOLY SHEEEEET!!!!

 ROSE MOJITO + IMEE OOI = Heaven...no....Nirvana....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvqPQUCn0BQ


----------



## audio123

if i have the zen, will mojito be an upgrade?


----------



## music4mhell

audio123 said:


> if i have the zen, will mojito be an upgrade?


sidegrade


----------



## audio123

music4mhell said:


> sidegrade


 

 so what should i get to upgrade zen 2.0 mate.
 many thanks in advance!


----------



## Tomasz2D

luedriver said:


> side note, kinda makes me think twice about the coso cncept mod on the she3800's, if they sound as good as the red'mun or if they are similar, I guess we'll never know


 
  
 I hope I will finally receive my SHE3800 this week. I will be able to compare RED with SHE3800 and H180.


----------



## gwompki

Listening to the RX1 at work with no amp, straight out of the laptop.  I definitely prefer these amped through the Fiio E12A.


----------



## music4mhell

audio123 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > sidegrade
> ...


i am trying to find same answer.
May be ve nirvana.

i have some hope for musicmaker new dual driver earbud
let see

i don't find anything which is a clear upgrade to zen.

zen 2 is complete paxkage


----------



## audio123

music4mhell said:


> i am trying to find same answer.
> May be ve nirvana.
> 
> i have some hope for musicmaker new dual driver earbud
> ...


 
 zen2 is really good hard to find replacement


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Nothing is upgrade to Zen 2 until Lee releases VE Nirvana


----------



## Tomasz2D

mebaali said:


> You are not alone, right now listening to Armin Van Buuren's State of Trance Year Mix on SHE3800.
> 
> To my ears, these are the best earbuds (even better sounding than TY Hi-Z 32 and Monk, in terms of clarity, detail retrieval, tighter bass, and natural vocals) that I have in my small collection of buds. All this for just mere 3.21 US$.
> 
> Simply brilliant!


 
 This is interesting because above description matches Red De'mun. Guys that already got your SHE3800, how long have you waited for it? I got one shipped from Lunashops on 25.07. and another one shipped from Fasttech on 26.07. and I am still waiting for both of them. This is already over one month. Is it normal?


----------



## tommo21

tomasz2d said:


> This is interesting because above description matches Red De'mun. Guys that already got your SHE3800, how long have you waited for it? I got one shipped from Lunashops on 25.07. and another one shipped from Fasttech on 26.07. and I am still waiting for both of them. This is already over one month. Is it normal?


 

 Fasttech is usually veeeery slow..last order didn't turn up until 8 weeks after shipping confirmation.


----------



## vapman

Fasttech, gearbest, lunashops all painfully slow IMO. Fastest I got stuff from any of those places is a month from shipping


----------



## ozkan

tomasz2d said:


> I hope I will finally receive my SHE3800 this week. I will be able to compare RED with SHE3800 and H180.




Where to buy SHE3800?


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> Fasttech, gearbest, lunashops all painfully slow IMO. Fastest I got stuff from any of those places is a month from shipping


 
  
 Gearbest is not that bad -  about 3 weeks for me - not that longer then Ali (about two and half weeks usually).
  


ozkan said:


> Where to buy SHE3800?


 
  
https://www.fasttech.com/products/1460600 
 or
http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=1116


----------



## vapman

that actually makes sense Gearbest shipping is not so bad for you. My last few orders shipped from Czech Republic for some reason. thats much closer to you than me (USA) 
  
 i think i will too order a Philips just to have it


----------



## audio123

tayyab pirzada said:


> Nothing is upgrade to Zen 2 until Lee releases VE Nirvana


true. Shall wait for the nirvana


----------



## Willber

mebaali said:


> You are not alone, right now listening to Armin Van Buuren's State of Trance Year Mix on SHE3800.
> 
> To my ears, these are the best earbuds (even better sounding than TY Hi-Z 32 and Monk, in terms of clarity, detail retrieval, tighter bass, and natural vocals) that I have in my small collection of buds. All this for just mere 3.21 US$.
> 
> Simply brilliant!


 
  
 Thanks for the tip, I have just ordered these:
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Philips-SHE3800-Lightweight-In-Ear-Gummy-Earphones-Extra-Bass-Black-High-Quality-/262596814437
  
 (A bit more expensive than other places but 2-day shipping in the UK.)
  
 If they are better that the Hi-Z 32 I shall be very impressed!


----------



## ozkan

tomasz2d said:


> Gearbest is not that bad -  about 3 weeks for me - not that longer then Ali (about two and half weeks usually).
> 
> 
> https://www.fasttech.com/products/1460600
> ...




Thank you. lunashops sells $8 while fasttech ones only costs $3.21. Are you sure they are the same models? I'm a bit confused


----------



## springbay

ozkan said:


> Thank you. lunashops sells $8 while fasttech ones only costs $3.21. Are you sure they are the same models? I'm a bit confused


 

 I don't get the prices at lunashops either. Yesterday I bought this cable:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-5mm-3-5mm-Plugs-Headphone-Earphone-Stereo-Cable-For-Audio-Technica-ATH-R70X-/262474447517
 from what seems to be their Ebay store. And they are selling the same cable at the lunashops page:
 http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=5394
  
 Free shipping and lower price at Ebay.


----------



## sharkz

Sorry for this question, because I know it has been mentioned, but this thread has turned into a beast.
  
 What is the consensus for the best modded bud for rock music between the De'Mun and Edimun V2/V3? I have seen many impressions, but many of those were with music different than what I typically listen to. I've considered a Zen, but if I can get something with 85% of the performance without the need for an amp I would be happy. I'm going to be getting a Shanling M5 shortly and I know eventually I will get pulled down the rabbit hole and "need" to get an amp for it, but in the meantime I would love something that doesn't necessarily need the extra power.


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> that actually makes sense Gearbest shipping is not so bad for you. My last few orders shipped from Czech Republic for some reason. thats much closer to you than me (USA)
> 
> i think i will too order a Philips just to have it


 
  
 GearBest also have Europeen warehouse, so maybe they had your product available only in their Europeen warehouse so they shipped from here.
 Or this is because the way some of Chinese big shops including some Ali sellers work. They use big forwarding companies to ship products. They stamp parcels with target national post services first like Sweden, Netherland, Swiss etc. and then they put them all into these big 40 feet containers and ship them from China. Then parcels are unloaded from these containers, let's say, in Sweden and are shiped further to other destination countries in Europe using for examle Swedish postal system. In this way they save a lot on shipment and this is why they can ship so cheap. Also, this is why the tracking usually is frozen for about one week and doesn't work until the parcel actually is unloaded from container and forwarder into target postal system. At least this is how they do it when they ship from China to Europe.


----------



## Tomasz2D

ozkan said:


> Thank you. lunashops sells $8 while fasttech ones only costs $3.21. Are you sure they are the same models? I'm a bit confused


 
  
 I have no idea - and this is why I have ordered from both sources. I can compare them both only when I receive them finally.


----------



## Tomasz2D

sharkz said:


> What is the consensus for the best modded bud for rock music between the De'Mun and Edimun V2/V3?


 
  
  
 I don't know of anybody here that owns both and would like to share his opinion. You have to wait until "sharing" members will own both finally. Maybe also wait for Red De'mun vs. SHE3800 comparison, as I am becoming little suspicious here.


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> I don't know of anybody here that owns both and would like to share his opinion. You have to wait until "sharing" members will own both finally. Maybe also wait for Red De'mun vs. SHE3800 comparison, as I am becoming little suspicious here.



I'm also quite curious (the photo below is red demun in my hand vs. a google search for SHE3800)

but its seems the SHE3800 is also a Philips IEM model and the Philips earbuds all look just like different Edifier models...


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> but its seems the SHE3800 is also a Philips IEM model and the Philips earbuds all look just like different Edifier models...


 
  
 We will find out... finally  And just for the reference:
  

  
 I just hope they don't use both SHE3800 and H180 at random, haha.


----------



## sharkz

vapman said:


> I'm also quite curious (the photo below is red demun in my hand vs. a google search for SHE3800)
> 
> but its seems the SHE3800 is also a Philips IEM model and the Philips earbuds all look just like different Edifier models...


 
  
 Glad I'm not the only one confused here. I Googled that Philips number before and all that really showed up outside of Asian markets was the IEM. It is possible that Edifier is just OEM'ing those buds for Philips where they are distributed in certain markets.
  
 Is there anyone here who will soon have both the De'Mun and Edimun?


----------



## vapman

sharkz said:


> Glad I'm not the only one confused here. I Googled that Philips number before and all that really showed up outside of Asian markets was the IEM. It is possible that Edifier is just OEM'ing those buds for Philips where they are distributed in certain markets.
> 
> Is there anyone here who will soon have both the De'Mun and Edimun?


 

 yes my Edimun v3 rhodium is finally out of customs...
  
 I was just thinking, it's likely that the Philips has the same driver as the H180. We should/can investigate this


----------



## Blueshound24

willber said:


> mebaali said:
> 
> 
> > You are not alone, right now listening to Armin Van Buuren's State of Trance Year Mix on SHE3800.
> ...


 
  
 Sorry for the OT, but has anyone been able to get on eBay today? I'm in the USA and have tried mobile, Chrome, FF and IE.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Just got my HD600's and can confirm they sound very similar to Zen 2. Although I think I like the HD600's slightly more. (but they are full-size cans, not earbuds). It is astounding what VE did in making an earbud sound like full-size open headphones.


----------



## Willber

blueshound24 said:


> > Originally Posted by *Willber* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> >
> > Thanks for the tip, I have just ordered these:
> > http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Philips-SHE3800-Lightweight-In-Ear-Gummy-Earphones-Extra-Bass-Black-High-Quality-/262596814437
> ...


 
  
 The UK site is working...


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

This pairing is simply phenomenal


----------



## springbay

T-Music DIY and Seahf LD-3.0 320ohm arrived today. T-Music buds bass were fun for a few minutes, but pretty soon it became apparent that the bass is inarticulate and the mids and highs are nowhere to be found.
 The Seahf LD-3.0 320ohm on the other hand have impressed me all evening. The best way I can describe them is like a power hungry version of the RX-1/Cygnus that extends all the way down with a quite decent bass and great instrument separation. If this love story continues, I'll have to try all the other power hungry Seahf buds. But I think I read somewhere that the 320 version is more power hungry than the 400 version.
 For now a great all rounder and a nice, slightly brighter sounding, complement to the Zen 2's


----------



## mock-up

I've just get Zen 1 and Zen 2 and Asura 1 and Asura 2 as complement to my Seahf LD-4.0 400.
 I'm really sorry to say that but Zen 2 and Asura 2 are completely wrong direction :/ They try to please with more clear highs and lost the point completely :/. Fun and joy go out. 
  
 Zen 1 is the KING and Asura 1 is the Queen! Lotsa fun! Zen and Seahf 400 gives more base for music.
  
 I've checked bunch of earbuds through this summer:
VE Monk
VE Monk +
TY Hi-Z HP-32
Qian 25
YMHFPJ diy MX500
Seahf LD-4.0 400
Fareal 32Ohm 
Blox B200
JiuShao E300
VE Asura
VE Asura 2.0
VE Zen 1.0
VE Zen 2.0
Blue Ever Blue Model 328R
Baldoor e100
Croons Tingo TG-38S
Dasetn m760
AuGlamour RX-1
  
 So my advice go for Seahf LD-4.0 400 as it still available. Go and hunt for Zen if you're nut. Avoid second generation of VE if you care about music not sound.
  
  
 That's IMHO. Your mileage may vary.
  
 PS. I'm happy to exchange some of my buds for Shozy Cygnus as it's last buds I would like to try.


----------



## mochill

2nd gen of Ve is more musical imho brother, you have to feed it right


----------



## mock-up

I'm not a fanboy. Is Chord Hugo good enough for VE Zen 2?


----------



## audio123

mock-up said:


> I'm not a fanboy. Is Chord Hugo good enough for VE Zen 2?


its quite overkill haha


----------



## boblauer

mock-up said:


> I'm not a fanboy. Is Chord Hugo good enough for VE Zen 2?


 
 It's good enough for just about anything, Mojo might be a cheaper pairing without losing much.


----------



## mochill

VE RA2.0 should be enough.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

mock-up said:


> I've just get Zen 1 and Zen 2 and Asura 1 and Asura 2 as complement to my Seahf LD-4.0 400.
> I'm really sorry to say that but Zen 2 and Asura 2 are completely wrong direction :/ They try to please with more clear highs and lost the point completely :/. Fun and joy go out.
> 
> Zen 1 is the KING and Asura 1 is the Queen! Lotsa fun! Zen and Seahf 400 gives more base for music.
> ...




Zen 2 is amazing. You need the right amp.


----------



## vapman

I'm sure Hugo -> Zen 2 is amazing. I ran Zen 2 directly out of Mojo and it was great.
  
 It's funny cause I didn't get a H180 until after I had got Red De'mun so while i am fine with it for TV shows, Youtube, games, it just falls flat for me on music. The overall sound is good but I guess having heard the Red De'mun  first it's just a significant downgrade in every way. That is why it got buried...
  
 I dug H180 back out today to compare it to the Red De'mun shell. it could easily be the H180. I forgot how similar they look.


----------



## mebaali

tomasz2d said:


> This is interesting because above description matches Red De'mun. Guys that already got your SHE3800, how long have you waited for it? I got one shipped from Lunashops on 25.07. and another one shipped from Fasttech on 26.07. and I am still waiting for both of them. This is already over one month. Is it normal?


 
 A word of caution about the QC, though. IIRC, @golov17 has mentioned (few weeks back here in this thread) of buying more than one pair of SHE3800 from fatstech with some of them were defective (but the ones that worked were very balanced sounding). It took nearly 5 weeks to reach India, in my case. I like the sound of SHE3800 (more musical yet balanced) more than any other earbuds that are in my possession (all are el cheapos, IEM guy here). I have just made an order for an extra pair from fasttech, gonna try out recabling these (stock cable looks and feels very fragile).
  


willber said:


> Thanks for the tip, I have just ordered these:
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Philips-SHE3800-Lightweight-In-Ear-Gummy-Earphones-Extra-Bass-Black-High-Quality-/262596814437
> 
> (A bit more expensive than other places but 2-day shipping in the UK.)
> ...


 
 To my ears, SHE3800 sounds like having the mix of good parts from both TY Hi-Z 32 (clean sound) and Monk (musical).


----------



## base08

base08 said:


> Thank you Willber!
> 
> Will definitely try the tip... The first pair which had the same crackling, with some wiggling around on the jack became better and better, so may I assume this so called gold plating is instead of improving connectivity is making it worst?
> 
> ...




Regarding this topic about the problems ty hiz 32 had, I talked to Penon over AE and they quickly replied acknowledging the problem and they are going to send the new version with the L shaped connector free of charge this week.

Kudos for Penon!


----------



## Willber

> Originally Posted by *mebaali* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks, I should get them this week.


----------



## Blueshound24

Kind of a gripe of mine. Why do so many earbuds have a straight plug instead of L shaped? Especially when going mobile and your player is in your pocket, the L shaped is so much more protected imo from breakage vs the straight plug.


----------



## Willber

blueshound24 said:


> Kind of a gripe of mine. Why do so many earbuds have a straight plug instead of L shaped? Especially when going mobile and your player is in your pocket, the L shaped is so much more protected imo from breakage vs the straight plug.


 
 I agree, I bought a couple of cheap L-shaped adaptors which I leave attached to my most popular buds.


----------



## Blueshound24

willber said:


> blueshound24 said:
> 
> 
> > Kind of a gripe of mine. Why do so many earbuds have a straight plug instead of L shaped? Especially when going mobile and your player is in your pocket, the L shaped is so much more protected imo from breakage vs the straight plug.
> ...


 
 Great idea! I just found some on Amazon for $9, but do you know of any better ones? Seems kinda high for just a little adapter.
  
 https://www.amazon.com/3-5MM-Female-Stereo-Adapter-Convertor/dp/B01IX7R5SQ/
  
  
  
 NVM... I found some on eBay.


----------



## Willber

blueshound24 said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > blueshound24 said:
> ...


 
 I got this one (in the UK), it works well:
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Right-Angled-3-5mm-Stereo-Jack-Headphone-Adaptor-Socket-to-Plug-Angle-/351646091587


----------



## music4mhell

tayyab pirzada said:


> Just got my HD600's and can confirm they sound very similar to Zen 2. Although I think I like the HD600's slightly more. (but they are full-size cans, not earbuds). It is astounding what VE did in making an earbud sound like full-size open headphones.


After hd650,

now these are in my radar,


Audeze LCD x/3
Beyerdynamic T1
Focal Elear


----------



## Sempenyi

music4mhell said:


> After hd650,
> 
> now these are in my radar,
> 
> ...


 
 don't forget focal utopia.


----------



## vapman

forget high end headphones, i don't even have all the totl earbuds yet!


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> forget high end headphones, i don't even have all the totl earbuds yet!


 
 list them?


----------



## music4mhell

sempenyi said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > After hd650,
> ...


 
 No No No, $4000, is out of budget now 
 Anyways these are out of topic.
  
 Back to thread, Please someone give some impressions on Musicmaker Dual driver, Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee some1


----------



## Sempenyi

some says philips is 16 ohm and edifier is 32ohm. anyone here can measure it pls ?


----------



## golov17

sempenyi said:


> some says philips is 16 ohm and edifier is 32ohm. anyone here can measure it pls ?


nope, both 32


----------



## kinetic758

music4mhell said:


> No No No, $4000, is out of budget now
> Anyways these are out of topic.
> 
> Back to thread, Please someone give some impressions on Musicmaker Dual driver, Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee some1




I got shipping info on the dual drivers. Will probably be another couple weeks before I get them however.


----------



## Danneq

Just browsing around on Ebay and I came across an auction for a pair of Audio Technica EC700, the ear hook version of CM700. CM/EC700 are pretty nice and sound a bit similar to Musicmaker Ting...


----------



## Fabi

danneq said:


> Just browsing around on Ebay and I came across an auction for a pair of Audio Technica EC700, the ear hook version of CM700. CM/EC700 are pretty nice and sound a bit similar to Musicmaker Ting...


I had CM700 and CM700Ti. As I remember, beautiful mids, not much bass quantity but tight, a bit veiled sound with full foams. Ti version may be slightly better on clarity and precision. 
Didn't have the chance to try thin foams with it, I put only thin foams on my earbuds now but I sold my ath before..


----------



## music4mhell

Just received Musicmaker TP16 with Mic earbud.
 Previously i was using Remax 303 while driving on bike. This one has superior sound quality.
 Now i won't search any other earbud with mic for my bike riding.
  
 Thanks musicmaker


----------



## Tomasz2D

mebaali said:


> A word of caution about the QC, though. IIRC, @golov17 has mentioned (few weeks back here in this thread) of buying more than one pair of SHE3800 from fatstech with some of them were defective (but the ones that worked were very balanced sounding).


 
  
 Yes, I remember there was this mini-hype about SHE3800 in this year and I remember some posts questioning production consistency or product genuineness from one source or another after somebody here said that he actually didn't like SHE3800. This is why finally I have ordered them from both sources taking into account low price. This was when I was reading through this thread from the start and I was ordering some older stuff to catch up with some old recommendations. What's interesting, quick forum search shows that first post about SHE3800 reaches as far as to 2013 year:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/420#post_9764738


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> Yes, I remember there was this mini-hype about SHE3800 in this year and I remember some posts questioning production consistency or product genuineness from one source or another after somebody here said that he actually didn't like SHE3800. This is why finally I have ordered them from both sources taking into account low price. This was when I was reading through this thread from the start and I was ordering some older stuff to catch up with some old recommendations. What's interesting, quick forum search shows that first post about SHE3800 reaches as far as to 2013 year:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/420#post_9764738


Hehe.. Dasetn & co


----------



## music4mhell

Damn, i hate this hobby and curiosity.
 I just ordered Musicmaker Dual dynamic TKY2 Earbud


----------



## mebaali

tomasz2d said:


> Yes, I remember there was this mini-hype about SHE3800 in this year and I remember some posts questioning production consistency or product genuineness from one source or another after somebody here said that he actually didn't like SHE3800. This is why finally I have ordered them from both sources taking into account low price. This was when I was reading through this thread from the start and I was ordering some older stuff to catch up with some old recommendations. What's interesting, quick forum search shows that first post about SHE3800 reaches as far as to 2013 year:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/420#post_9764738


 
 Very astute of you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Hope you get a good one from both the sources and them matching with your tastes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I just love mine and will do a recabling once I receive the second pair


----------



## nhlean96

Are SHE3800 and Edifier H180 the same ?
 This SHE3800 was once the most popular earbud in my country, cheap, just $5 lol. There're many kinds of "SHE3800" on the market, the quality isn't the same as the first pair I bought long ago.


----------



## Danneq

Well, probably Edifier uses the same housings as Philips did for the SHE3800. 

 Like how the old Sennheiser MX300/400/500 housings are the most popular among smaller earbud makers.


----------



## luedriver

looking up on flicker I saw bengkel macro also modded she3800
  

  
 you can see very faintly the word philips on them
  
 also https://www.flickr.com/photos/27459891@N04/22849680279/in/photolist-yjMKzf-AP9zSP they hashtag them
  


> Hemat Energi, Hemat Biaya. #philips #demun#kerehore #she3800 #portableaudioindonesia#portableaudiosamarinda #headfi #audiophile #iphone#gamelancafe #nikon #bengkelmacro #botakindonesia#takingindicakiti #ingindinafkahi


----------



## Siriphum

I'm interested in the Seahf 32 Ohm on Aliexpress. Have someone tried it ?


----------



## Lionlian

At this rate, It maybe can even going to surpass Sony and aiwa era someday, just hope is soon.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

I don't know what little bear did, but damn thier B4 is one hell of a great amp. Extremely clean sounding, providing a wider soundstage compared to my OAK Audio PHA amp and also less channel imbalances (yay ALPS POT! yay AMP9920AT Op Amp!)
  
 My Mojito can't detect their noise floor. Pairs very well with the Mojito's too. Just adding a tiniest nit of warmth to the sound without compensating the fantastic details of this earbud.


----------



## Tomasz2D

luedriver said:


> looking up on flicker I saw bengkel macro also modded she3800


 
  
 So they offer Edimun and Philimun ?


----------



## 93EXCivic

Does the Musicmaker TKY2 use a crossover?


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> Just received Musicmaker TP16 with Mic earbud.
> Previously i was using Remax 303 while driving on bike. This one has superior sound quality.
> Now i won't search any other earbud with mic for my bike riding.
> 
> Thanks musicmaker




Interesting because I have 2x 303 for phone calls and bike. Is it much bassier?

I have to say one reason I like the 303 and it is good for travel, is it does not care about which way the earbud faces in your ear, it will sound the same.


----------



## rggz

Wow. This aluminium case by Shozy looks a perfect match for Cygnus! Talking about Cygnus... I've bought some pieces of nylon/paracord to try "sleeve" the green cable and keep the softness characteristic (different than others I dislike this green effect). 

 Btw, I'm excited my 300Ohms DIY driver is coming to me today. I hope these Thai guys which build this and praise it are right, lol.


----------



## MRK1

Can I get a quick comparison between VE Monk and Shozy Cygnus? From what I can read it is better in every way but I couldn't find a direct comparison. Basically I'm looking for something that is like the Monk but with better bass, detail and soundstage.
  
 I'm about to pull the trigger on Penon Audio, but $90 is still a lot of money so I have to be 100% sure. It costs 18 times more than the Monk, so is it at least 18 times better?


----------



## rggz

mrk1 said:


> Can I get a quick comparison between VE Monk and Shozy Cygnus? From what I can read it is better in every way but I couldn't find a direct comparison. Basically I'm looking for something that is like the Monk but with better bass, detail and soundstage.
> 
> I'm about to pull the trigger on Penon Audio, but $90 is still a lot of money so I have to be 100% sure. It costs 18 times more than the Monk, so is it at least 18 times better?


 

 Just to make it clear. Are you talking about VE Monk or Monk*+*?


----------



## MRK1

rggz said:


> Just to make it clear. Are you talking about VE Monk or Monk*+*?


 

 So far I only have the regular Monk. I have some Plus but they're still in transit. Also I bought the "monk expansion pack" so I'll be set when it comes to foams as well. Right now I use Monk with donut foam and I absolutely adore them, and they're 100% comfy for me, I can't even feel them in my ears after a while.


----------



## Willber

mrk1 said:


> Basically I'm looking for something that is like the Monk but with better bass, detail and soundstage.


 
 I haven't heard the original Monk but I find my TY Hi-Z 32 better than my Monk+ in bass and soundstage with similar detail. In fact I am running my new RX-1 side by side with it and the Hi-Z is coming out on top. And at $6 you don't have much to lose.


----------



## vapman

I just posted a few Monk non plus in the classifieds if anyone's interested:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/818667/ve-monk-original-non-plusses-free-shipping


----------



## MRK1

willber said:


> I haven't heard the original Monk but I find my TY Hi-Z 32 better than my Monk+ in bass and soundstage with similar detail. In fact I am running my new RX-1 side by side with it and the Hi-Z is coming out on top. And at $6 you don't have much to lose.


 
  
 I just searched for this on AliExpress and it seems to cost $60 not 6. Typo? Anyway, it looks identical to Monk, and some people complained about the build quality in reviews. So far I only had one pair of Monks to break (there is major vibration and distortion in bass in one of the earbuds) out of 6 I have.
  
 By the way, I found these two listings on AliExpress, this one seems to have 2 Cygnus for $99, this one has it for $71. As we say in Italy, where's the trick? Penon Audio has them for $89.


----------



## Willber

mrk1 said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't heard the original Monk but I find my TY Hi-Z 32 better than my Monk+ in bass and soundstage with similar detail. In fact I am running my new RX-1 side by side with it and the Hi-Z is coming out on top. And at $6 you don't have much to lose.
> ...


 
  
 That means they are out of stock, nobody seems to have them at the moment which is a shame. I have had no problems with mine (I have 3).


----------



## vapman

That is too bad because I was finally about to buy a TY hi-z 32, I don't have one yet!


----------



## kvad

According to Penons Ali store there will be a new version at the end of the month (which I presume is right about now) with L plug. There are other sellers on Ali Express with the current model though (at least you can buy it from them - when they ship I do not know).


----------



## MRK1

Actually I just found another variable. I was checking out ClieOS list and he put the Auglamour RX1 just below the Rose Mojito. I'm not sure if I trust his list anymore after the abysmal JiuShao E300 which sound worse than a pair of fake earpods I found on the street, but they do look very pretty, especially for 20 bucks... Man these earbuds are a slippery slope! I'm seriously tempted to go on an earbud buying spree and buy all of the ones I find interesting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Anyway, ClieOS says that the RX1 is "Warm, rich with an excellent mid range, if not slightly mid centric", and he says that the Monk is "Rich and engaging sound with a good mid ". So the RX1 compared to the Monk is "Warm" other than "Rich", and it has "excellent mid" compared to "good mid". He also says that the JiuShao E600 is "nothing standout but good all rounder" and the E300 "With more dynamic and excitement than E600 but less defined on treble". So if I interpret all of this correctly the RX1 should be a Monk on steroids and with metal housing. Does that sounds right to you?


----------



## Willber

> Actually I just found another variable. I was checking out ClieOS list and he put the Auglamour RX1 just below the Rose Mojito. I'm not sure if I trust his list anymore after the abysmal JiuShao E300 which sound worse than a pair of fake earpods I found on the street, but they do look very pretty, especially for 20 bucks... Man these earbuds are a slippery slope! I'm seriously tempted to go on an earbud buying spree and buy all of the ones I find interesting


 
  
 I've got some of these on the way, somebody on here said they were better than Monk(+?) and Hi-Z, don't know if they sell to Italy:
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262596814437


----------



## vapman

I bought a TY just now from this listing.
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/TY-Hi-Z-HiFi-Super-Bass-Earphone-Sports-Headsets-For-Xiaomi-Samsung-iPhone-MP3-MP4-Audifonos/32699557290.html
 We will see if it shows up but they seem to get good ratings.


----------



## Tomasz2D

mrk1 said:


> I'm seriously tempted to go on an earbud buying spree and buy all of the ones I find interesting


 
  
 That's the best solution I think. Welcome to the party!


----------



## springbay

Ok, if some are up to start a Seahf LD-3.0 320 fan-club. I'll be the first to sign up.
 I'm in awe how well they perform on every level. I just can't find a single flaw with them so far, given that you amp them. I'm so amazed that I ordered the LD-3.0 400 and LD-4.0 400 this evening, because I need to listen to the big brothers sooner or later, and I prefer sooner.


----------



## vapman

springbay said:


> Ok, if some are up to start a Seahf LD-3.0 320 fan-club. I'll be the first to sign up.
> I'm in awe how well they perform on every level. I just can't find a single flaw with them so far, given that you amp them. I'm so amazed that I ordered the LD-3.0 400 and LD-4.0 400 this evening, because I need to listen to the big brothers sooner or later, and I prefer sooner.


 

 likewise i need to order the 320 to complement my 400!


----------



## boblauer

mrk1 said:


> Actually I just found another variable. I was checking out ClieOS list and he put the Auglamour RX1 just below the Rose Mojito. I'm not sure if I trust his list anymore after the abysmal JiuShao E300 which sound worse than a pair of fake earpods I found on the street, but they do look very pretty, especially for 20 bucks... Man these earbuds are a slippery slope! I'm seriously tempted to go on an earbud buying spree and buy all of the ones I find interesting
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 With my limited time with an RX1 , only had for a couple days, I would agree with that assessment. Sound very similar with a slight nod to RX1 in terms of detail and clarity and obvious the build quality being metal. But with the difference in price if you buy both new I could live with 3 sets of monk+(one with Ex pack) for the same amount and throw them around and not worry. One other thing the RX1's are a bit easier to drive with really low power daps like a Clip or Benjie but neither really need an amp. 
 BTW my Monk+ are the first sale from MassDrop if that matters to anyone.


----------



## MRK1

boblauer said:


> With my limited time with an RX1 , only had for a couple days, I would agree with that assessment. Sound very similar with a slight nod to RX1 in terms of detail and clarity and obvious the build quality being metal. But with the difference in price if you buy both new I could live with 3 sets of monk+(one with Ex pack) for the same amount and throw them around and not worry. One other thing the RX1's are a bit easier to drive with really low power daps like a Clip or Benjie but neither really need an amp.
> BTW my Monk+ are the first sale from MassDrop if that matters to anyone.


 
  
 Thank you very much for this info. How would you rate the fit and the bass compared to Monk?
Also I checked out the for sale forum and found out Vapman had two pairs. Could you please give me some info on them? 
 I just lurked harder and found out Vapman posted about them a few times. Well then sir, you just sold me on them. I hope they will deliver.


----------



## Willber

vapman said:


> I bought a TY just now from this listing.
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/TY-Hi-Z-HiFi-Super-Bass-Earphone-Sports-Headsets-For-Xiaomi-Samsung-iPhone-MP3-MP4-Audifonos/32699557290.html
> We will see if it shows up but they seem to get good ratings.


 

 Well found, that didn't show up in my search.


----------



## 93EXCivic

I should just not look at this thread any more. Too many earbuds I want to try but I want to spend the money on upgrading/ adding other stuff to my setup like a better turntable, a Raspberry Pi based music server, better DAP, better full sized headphones... 
  
 I have already ordered three (T-Music, Ty Hi-Z 32 ohm and Monk +). I'd like to order either the Seahf LD-3.0 320ohm or Musicmaker Tomahawk or Toneking TP16 or RX1 in the next couple months.


----------



## FatTeemo

springbay said:


> Ok, if some are up to start a Seahf LD-3.0 320 fan-club. I'll be the first to sign up.
> I'm in awe how well they perform on every level. I just can't find a single flaw with them so far, given that you amp them. I'm so amazed that I ordered the LD-3.0 400 and LD-4.0 400 this evening, because I need to listen to the big brothers sooner or later, and I prefer sooner.


 
  
 Do you know how the Seahf 320 compare to the ve zen 2.0?


----------



## boblauer

mrk1 said:


> Thank you very much for this info. How would you rate the fit and the bass compared to Monk?
> Also I checked out the for sale forum and found out Vapman had two pairs. Could you please give me some info on them? Maybe I'll buy these if they're overall better than the Monk instead of the Cygnus, which is quite expensive.


 
 To me fit is similar but I have weird ears, my left ear canal is smaller that the right so fit is always weird and often use a double foam on right ear. Bass question, I am not a bass head much more a midrange low treble person so bass to me is very similar maybe slightly to the RX1 but so slight I could not even score it a win for either. 
  
 In lieu of Cygnus is why I got them, my earbud theory is lower end below $40 price point because I use them on the go and lose stuff constantly. BTW Vapman is a good seller and very trust worthy, I bought from him so no worries if you do.


----------



## Willber

mrk1 said:


> boblauer said:
> 
> 
> > With my limited time with an RX1 , only had for a couple days, I would agree with that assessment. Sound very similar with a slight nod to RX1 in terms of detail and clarity and obvious the build quality being metal. But with the difference in price if you buy both new I could live with 3 sets of monk+(one with Ex pack) for the same amount and throw them around and not worry. One other thing the RX1's are a bit easier to drive with really low power daps like a Clip or Benjie but neither really need an amp.
> ...


 
  
 If you want bass and soundstage then I find the Hi-Z better than the RX-1 and Monk+, and vapman has just posted the link to a cheap seller.


----------



## rggz

First impressions of this driver called as 300 Ohms DIY:

 I have a little problem with MX500 shells which I just can fit perfectly fitting like an IEM. In this case, it works perfectly fine. Important to note that 300Ohms they won't shine without an amp but you can get a decent volume with normal sources like Sansa clip+ or FiiO X1, but definitely an amp will turn it into a good earbud.

 Listening to these albums which I'm very used w/ full foams: _Pilini__ - Handsome Cities / __Mostodon__ - The Hunter / Gojira - From mars to __sirius__ / Animal as Leader and If These Trees Could Talk tracks_

 - Bass punchy, texture of every kick very pronounced and clean (very very clean on _Mastodon - Stargasm_)
 - Sub-bass decent for an earbud (~80hz after that.. meh), first time I felt an earbud making vibrations on shell
 - Male vocals vivid and forward (today my actual mood with female vocals isn't there)
 - Sharpness/crisp type in all spectrum, if you like sound being smooth definitely it's not for you
 - The treble isn't clinical, there are dynamics sufficient to make jazz sounds sweet, the realism of clarinets make my tomahawk's ashamed with their artificial timbre (at least to my ears).
 - Sound-stage the same size of Cygnus which isn't bigger, however, isn't small as well.
  
 Thank you anonymous Thai guys which I read about that driver, it's just my initial impressions then my thoughts here can change in the future.


----------



## klove4252

My Moondrop VX=Pro came in over the weekend. Not a bad pair of earbuds, but I wouldn't call them a "baby" mojito either. The mids are good and their is good clarity when listening to acoustic/pop types of music. The soundstage isn't the best. It seems much more narrow than the Mojito. It does have a neutral sound which is a positive for me. Overall, I enjoy them but I guess my expectations were too high.


----------



## springbay

fatteemo said:


> Do you know how the Seahf 320 compare to the ve zen 2.0?


 

 They sound quite different. Best way I can describe the Seahf LD-3 320, is like the Cygnus with a whole lot more body, a fuller sound and without the fatiguing highs. Quite neutral and not dark sounding like the Zen 2, and not at all as picky about the amping as the Zen 2. My Zen 2 actually only comes to their full right when used together with my VE Runabout 2.
 Please note that there are several versions of the Seahf 320 ohm. The one I'm referring to is the one named Seahf LD-3 320


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

They arrived finally.


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> They arrived finally.


 
 can't wait to hear your impressions man. Still awaiting delivery of mine.


----------



## Frederick Wang

klove4252 said:


> My Moondrop VX=Pro came in over the weekend. Not a bad pair of earbuds, but I wouldn't call them a "baby" mojito either. The mids are good and their is good clarity when listening to acoustic/pop types of music. The soundstage isn't the best. It seems much more narrow than the Mojito. It does have a neutral sound which is a positive for me. Overall, I enjoy them but I guess my expectations were too high.


 
 Do you find the s sound harsh?


----------



## jamesbdh

i can't find it anymore but i have tried the TiHz brand but have not tried the seahf yet.  I prefer neutral and sound stage.  should i go for the 150,320, or 400?


----------



## Sehn82

mock-up said:


> I've just get Zen 1 and Zen 2 and Asura 1 and Asura 2 as complement to my Seahf LD-4.0 400.
> I'm really sorry to say that but Zen 2 and Asura 2 are completely wrong direction :/ They try to please with more clear highs and lost the point completely :/. Fun and joy go out.
> 
> Zen 1 is the KING and Asura 1 is the Queen! Lotsa fun! Zen and Seahf 400 gives more base for music.
> ...




I bought into the hype and have an RX1 on the way. How would you rate them within your current stock of earphones?


----------



## mochill

I'll just leave these here


----------



## sharkz

Care to name all those for those of us out of the loop?


----------



## Gideon Lim

mochill said:


> I'll just leave these here


 
 So how was it sir?  glad to see you here, Fans of Concerto V2.0 batch 1.


----------



## mochill

A brand from Indonesia that are making these gems called: Heavenly sound.
Top left: groove is there 30ohm high-end budget .
Top right: concerto, 300ohm tuned like hd800 and is one of there star
Bottom left: beat , 30ohm entry level that has fast pace .
Bottom right:Sonata , 300ohm tuned like hd650 with magical midrange

More info here:https://m.facebook.com/wisnuwardhanapurnama?tsid=0.1911201140317793&source=typeahead


----------



## mochill

Definitely top tier brother


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Edimun V3 is very nice. Sounds kind of like Cygnus. But better than Zen 2? Not sure...


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Edimun V3 sounds really great unamped though, just like the Cygnus. Zen 2 sounds like garbage unamped.
  
 Cable for Edimun V3 is really too stiff though. I like the Oyaide L-shaped connector tho.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Edimun V3 is more detailed and better bass than Cygnus. But it's not as good as Zen 2 amped. And I still prefer Cygnus to Edimun V3 due to comfort (and it's also slightly louder unamped).


----------



## fairx

Ty 32ohm amped beat monk+ in every department except smoothness and air (if that your thing) Some might called it sibilant. I can handle a littl bit of sibilant 

Tested with my friend Q1 and monk+ foam. 

Can't wait for my O2 to arrive and jump into hi ohm. Also time to evaluate my own gear with proper desktop amp. Why does it have to be holiday today sigh.


----------



## Townyj

tayyab pirzada said:


> Edimun V3 is more detailed and better bass than Cygnus. But it's not as good as Zen 2 amped. And I still prefer Cygnus to Edimun V3 due to comfort (and it's also slightly louder unamped).




Sweet! No need for me to get it now


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Edimun V3 was kind of a let-down. I was expecting a Zen 2 killer. It's not to my ears. But then again this hobby is ultra-subjective. Edimun V3 is a very good bud (especially great since it's good unamped), but it's not as musical as Zen 2, and the cable stiffness just doesn't do it for me. Housing is also too large.


----------



## vapman

My Red Demun was a zen killer, in my honest opinion, but you have not heard the Red Demun and I have not heard the Edimun V3 so. I will hold off on any comments about it until i get it


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Just received Musicmaker TP16 with Mic earbud.
> ...


 
 No it's not at all Bassier than Remax, but mids and highs are better than Remax.
  
 Remax - Mid - 5, High -5, Low - 5
 TP16   - Mid - 7, High - 8, Low - 4
  
 Edit : Cable in TY16 is 2nd best cable after Zen 2. Durable and strong.


----------



## vapman

Will definitely get one thanks!


----------



## Sempenyi

Kanzenoka Yin Yang P1.1 is coming. impression is coming soon !


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

So many buds lol. I'm happy with Cygnus and Zen 2.


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> My Red Demun was a zen killer, in my honest opinion, but you have not heard the Red Demun and I have not heard the Edimun V3 so. I will hold off on any comments about it until i get it


 


 Well, it's probably a matter of preference.

 To me Edimun V3 is easily the best earbud you can buy for under $100. It's probably no 4 or 5 on my top 5 list and even knocks down my "budget" favorite Tomahawk a notch (and out of the top 5).

 I have to compare Edimun V3 to VE Zen 1.0 more closely before deciding which one is no 4 and which one is no 5...


----------



## luedriver

finally got my cygnus today!
  
 along with the "free gift penon iem"
  
 out of the box, hype confirmed, I haven't A/B them to anything, I don't think its necessary, they sound that good
  
 kinda disappointed that they gave me a pack of feng full foams instead of donuts, but at least I know which brand to look for now
  
they also gave me a penon logo thing, like its half of a velcro type that you stick on is missing 
  
the sound of the cygnus, talk about wolf in sheep's clothing, music in your face, (a bit narrow soundstage), kinda what Tomasz2D said about earbuds wanting your full attention, I couldn't think about anything else when using them to go the the shops, and in the shops, I couldn't hear the background music, (with the donut foams on), at a point I had to take them off to focus on shopping, they were that distracting...
  
 bass is definitely not lacking, although I woudn't go as far as to call them basshead earbuds
  
 fit and comfort in my ears is good, I'm not going to forget that they're there, but after 30 mins of no music (still wearing them) they don't fatigue, the foam's kinda, slightly itch though
  
 without foams they are not as I expected them to be, I thought they would be almost one piece and rounded, but they have a grey cover with a flat, maybe 2 mm, wide rim
  
  
 sorry for the wall of text


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

luedriver said:


> finally got my cygnus today!
> 
> along with the "free gift penon iem"
> 
> ...


 
 Cygnus is my daily, daily driver. My favourite earbud for use while watching movies and listening to music un-amped. And you can't beat how comfortable the cable and housing is.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

danneq said:


> Well, it's probably a matter of preference.
> 
> To me Edimun V3 is easily the best earbud you can buy for under $100. It's probably no 4 or 5 on my top 5 list and even knocks down my "budget" favorite Tomahawk a notch (and out of the top 5).
> 
> I have to compare Edimun V3 to VE Zen 1.0 more closely before deciding which one is no 4 and which one is no 5...


 
 have u tried Zen 2?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

luedriver said:


> finally got my cygnus today!
> 
> along with the "free gift penon iem"
> 
> ...


 
 oh and soundstage opens up a LOT with burn-in. Now my Cygnus has similar soundstage to Mojito.


----------



## Danneq

tayyab pirzada said:


> have u tried Zen 2?


 


 Traded it for a pair of Zen 1.0 which I like much better...


----------



## kurtextrem

tayyab pirzada said:


> oh and soundstage opens up a LOT with burn-in. Now my Cygnus has similar soundstage to Mojito.


 
 which foams bro?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kurtextrem said:


> which foams bro?


 
 stock foams. many people dont like them, but i love the cygnus stock foams. thicker foams hurt my ears.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

luedriver said:


> finally got my cygnus today!
> 
> along with the "free gift penon iem"
> 
> ...


 
  
 Give it at least 200Hours of burn in.


tayyab pirzada said:


> Cygnus is my daily, daily driver. My favourite earbud for use while watching movies and listening to music un-amped. And you can't beat how comfortable the cable and housing is.


 
 Yes, the soundstage does upon up a fair bit, but IMHO, not as much as the Mojito.


----------



## JASru

Have anyone tried theese ones?
 https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/2016-MusicMaker-TKY2-Dual-Dynamic-Units-Earphone-HIFI-Fever-TONKING-TKY2-In-Ear-Earphone-Easy-Hybrid/32722987286.html?spm=2114.13010308.0.42.fVA3F9
 Looks fancy =)


----------



## tommo21

jasru said:


> Have anyone tried theese ones?
> https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/2016-MusicMaker-TKY2-Dual-Dynamic-Units-Earphone-HIFI-Fever-TONKING-TKY2-In-Ear-Earphone-Easy-Hybrid/32722987286.html?spm=2114.13010308.0.42.fVA3F9
> Looks fancy =)


 
 There's quite a few of us that have ordered these and waiting for them. They are new, so no one have really tried them yet.


----------



## JASru

Thx, gonna wait for first impressions.
 At least they look extremely sturdy.


----------



## music4mhell

jasru said:


> Have anyone tried theese ones?
> https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/2016-MusicMaker-TKY2-Dual-Dynamic-Units-Earphone-HIFI-Fever-TONKING-TKY2-In-Ear-Earphone-Easy-Hybrid/32722987286.html?spm=2114.13010308.0.42.fVA3F9
> Looks fancy =)


 
 I ordered yesterday


----------



## luedriver

> music in your face, (a bit narrow soundstage)


 
 depending on the music of course, listening now to inxs, welcome to wherever you are, (paused the music), there is much more sound stage extending a bit beyond my shoulders, or even projecting sound even farther
  
I listened a bit to the rx-1's and kinda sounded like a bookshelf speaker which tweeter was blown out, (from personal experience), although they did sound more detailed


----------



## golov17

http://www.head-fi.org/t/818693/bc-canada-fs-ft-blox-be7-w-ve-asura-2-0


----------



## MRK1

Ok then, I just ordered the RX-1, I also found in one of the posts in here about a discount code for a seller on AliExpress so I got them for $18 instead of $23. I hope they're worth the hype. I'll buy the Cygnus next if I like this one.
  
 I also still have 2 pairs of Monk Plus and and the "expansion pack" (not the N64 accessory 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) coming, they're stuck in the customs I guess, hopefully they won't annoy me with taxes and other BS and just deliver the damn earbuds to me already.
  
 Post with discount code info: http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/7455#post_12755446


----------



## Willber

mrk1 said:


> Ok then, I just ordered the RX-1, I also found in one of the posts in here about a discount code for a seller on AliExpress so I got them for $18 instead of $23. I hope they're worth the hype.


 
 I was disappointed, especially in the bass and soundstage. But it's all subjective, I hope you like them.


----------



## MRK1

willber said:


> I was disappointed, especially in the bass and soundstage. But it's all subjective, I hope you like them.


 
  
 Would you say they're better or worse than the monk? Also how was the fit? I know earbuds are sometimes hard to fit properly so bass will be lost. I have perfect fit and comfort with the Monk, and also with smaller earbuds such as the Sennheiser MX580.


----------



## Willber

mrk1 said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > I was disappointed, especially in the bass and soundstage. But it's all subjective, I hope you like them.
> ...


 
  
 As I stated in an earlier reply, I don't have the original monk. The fit of the RX was ok until I had to fit foams + donuts to get some bass but that made them a bit too big for me. Also, they are quite heavy. I find Monk+ and Hi-Z more comfortable for these reasons.


----------



## luedriver

kinda OOT but does anyone know where to buy feng donut foams?
  
 tried aliexpress, ebay, penon, but at most can only find full foams
  
 I am under the impression that cygnus uses feng donuts, if not, then where can I find similar donuts other than ordering more cygnus


----------



## music4mhell

luedriver said:


> kinda OOT but does anyone know where to buy feng donut foams?
> 
> tried aliexpress, ebay, penon, but at most can only find full foams
> 
> I am under the impression that cygnus uses feng donuts, if not, then where can I find similar donuts other than ordering more cygnus


 
 Penon has Hiegi Donut foams, i think Feng and Hiegi both are of same quality.
 I bought from penon, Heigi Donut and full foam and Feng full foms.


----------



## luedriver

music4mhell said:


> Penon has Hiegi Donut foams, i think Feng and Hiegi both are of same quality.
> I bought from penon.


 
 I read an article/review on the cygnus saying they tried/tested both stock cygnus donut foam and hiegi and found that they were different in sound and material
  
 penon gave me a pack of feng foam with the earbuds and thought maybe the donuts on the earbuds were from the same company


----------



## music4mhell

luedriver said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Penon has Hiegi Donut foams, i think Feng and Hiegi both are of same quality.
> ...


 
 You can ask Penon, they will list Feng Donut foams.


----------



## luedriver

if you don't mind me asking, what kind of foams did you get when you bought the cygnus?
  
 do you think the donut foams are from feng? because I am half believing that they don't make donut foams
  
 because they gave me full foams and when looking for them online, I couldn't find any


----------



## Willber

willber said:


> mrk1 said:
> 
> 
> > willber said:
> ...


 
  
 Here is a brief summary of my conclusions:
  
*Bass*
 Hi-Z > Monk+ > RX-1
  
*Lower mids*
 Hi-Z = Monk+ = RX-1
  
*Higher mids*
 RX-1 > Hi-Z = Monk+
  
*Treble*
 RX-1 > Monk+ > Hi-Z
  
*Soundstage*
 Hi-Z >> Monk+ > RX-1
  
*Comfort*
 Hi-Z = Monk+ > RX-1
  
*Source*
 Hi-res youtube recordings on laptop with PEACE EQ
  
*Music*
 Bowie, Kate Bush, Fleetwood Mac, Dire Straits, Yeasayer, Tame Impala, Chemical Brothers


----------



## music4mhell

luedriver said:


> if you don't mind me asking, what kind of foams did you get when you bought the cygnus?
> 
> do you think the donut foams are from feng? because I am half believing that they don't make donut foams
> 
> because they gave me full foams and when looking for them online, I couldn't find any


 
 Hmm that's a long back, for sure Cygnus stock foam was thinner than Hiegi or Feng and i am 90% sure it was Donut.


----------



## gwompki

My RX1 has developed a slight buzz at certain mid-range frequencies.  I notice mostly with louder, overdriven guitars (eg. ACDC).  
  
 Edit...I just tried with another headphone and realized the problem is with the source.  I'm just hearing detail I've never heard before haha.


----------



## fairx

music4mhell said:


> Penon has Hiegi Donut foams, i think Feng and Hiegi both are of same quality.
> I bought from penon, Heigi Donut and full foam and Feng full foms.




Speaking of foam. Anybody Got source to get original tomahawk foam. It's not a foam more like some kind of fabric. Very nice actually. Especially when they're worn out. Unfortunately i gave away most of mine.


----------



## fairx

gwompki said:


> My RX1 has developed a slight buzz at certain mid-range frequencies.  I notice mostly with louder, overdriven guitars (eg. ACDC).
> 
> Edit...I just tried with another headphone and realized the problem is with the source.  I'm just hearing detail I've never heard before haha.




Lol I once heard what I suspect a jitter error from cd ripping. It's actually very faint hi hat in music.


----------



## base08

My 2 cents coming from someone using monk plus, ty hi-z 32, and RX-1 arguably the top 3 price/performance of the moment.
  
 RX-1 tops all of them in honesty, showing the quality of the recording — if the mic is well placed in the instrument, if the recording room is small, big, etc...
  
 Bass impact could be stronger but can be adjusted via EQ and the driver handles very well that extra DB.
  
 Mids and Treble are top notch.
  
 They are nitpicky also in terms of fitting, and some frequencies show some distortion if the earbud is pushed to deep against the ear canal, they need to breath.
  
 The other two with lower quality (DAP, AMP, bitrate, etc) mask it a lot better and produce a pleasing sound, smoothing all the rough edges, creating a good harmony between all frequencies, kudos to both tunners (Lee and "bug guy")


----------



## BloodyPenguin

sempenyi said:


> Kanzenoka Yin Yang P1.1 is coming. impression is coming soon !


 
  
 I've had my eyes on these for a while now.  Really looking forward to your impressions.
  
 May I ask where you bought it?
  
 --


----------



## vapman

mrk1 said:


> Would you say they're better or worse than the monk? Also how was the fit? I know earbuds are sometimes hard to fit properly so bass will be lost. I have perfect fit and comfort with the Monk, and also with smaller earbuds such as the Sennheiser MX580.




Depends on what you like, it can be a huge Upgrade or a small sidegrade to the monk.


----------



## Tomasz2D

Today I have discovered that Shozy Cygnus and Boarseman MX98s both share very similar character. Overall tonality and soundstage imaging is similar. Main differences being Cygnus more airy, laid back, more spacy and softer sound. On the other hand MX98s more balanced and tighter sound with more forward mids.


----------



## gwompki

base08 said:


> They are nitpicky also in terms of fitting, and some frequencies show some distortion if the earbud is pushed to deep against the ear canal, they need to breath.


 
  
 Absolutely agree.  I have been fighting with them all day...foams on, foams off, double foam, etc.  I ended up just one of the stock foams put on loosely and just placed in ear...not squashed against ear canal.  Phew.  Thought I was going crazy because they had not been sounding NEARLY as good today.  Now after reading your comment about not putting them too deep it seems to have improved dramatically.  Wild it can make that much of a difference.


----------



## base08

gwompki said:


> Absolutely agree.  I have been fighting with them all day...foams on, foams off, double foam, etc.  I ended up just one of the stock foams put on loosely and just placed in ear...not squashed against ear canal.  Phew.  Thought I was going crazy because they had not been sounding NEARLY as good today.  Now after reading your comment about not putting them too deep it seems to have improved dramatically.  Wild it can make that much of a difference.


 

Yes i've been in the same process and realized I was trying to get more low frequencies by increasing the seal, but at the same time I was increasing the driver's decay time on the higher frequencies, trapping the air between the driver and my ear canal... Earbuds are designed and tuned with some specific fitting and we should use them like the tuner itself. 

I guess a correct modus-operandis when trying new earbuds is to first use them naked, testing with a couple of songs covering the whole frequency spectrum. If some of the frequencies seem unbalanced against others, then it's time to tune physically the earbud with some foams to dampen some frequencies or to increase the seal.

Something we could do here is a kind of breakdown on the sonic impact of each type of foams: donuts, thicker foams, thinner foams, etc...


----------



## vapman

Interesting thoughts on the Boarseman 98s, i was considering getting a cygnus again when the L plug ones come out, but might go for the Boarseman instead.


----------



## springbay

vapman said:


> Interesting thoughts on the Boarseman 98s, i was considering getting a cygnus again when the L plug ones come out, but might go for the Boarseman instead.


 
 Do get the Boarseman MX98s. It's a very nice bud that is mentioned too seldom in this thread. But do your self a favor and add the Seahf LD-3.0 320 to the order as well. The price at HCK @ AE is a steal right now. Your future self will thank you. I'm on my third day with the LD-3.0 320 and still puzzled how there can be such a terrific all rounder.


----------



## vapman

springbay said:


> Do get the Boarseman MX98s. It's a very nice bud that is mentioned too seldom in this thread. But do your self a favor and add the Seahf LD-3.0 320 to the order as well. The price at HCK @ AE is a steal right now. Your future self will thank you. I'm on my third day with the LD-3.0 320 and still puzzled how there can be such a terrific all rounder.


 

 TY for the reminder, I knew there was one more thing I felt like buying


----------



## ld100

springbay said:


> Do get the Boarseman MX98s. It's a very nice bud that is mentioned too seldom in this thread. But do your self a favor and add the Seahf LD-3.0 320 to the order as well. The price at HCK @ AE is a steal right now. Your future self will thank you. I'm on my third day with the LD-3.0 320 and still puzzled how there can be such a terrific all rounder.


 
  
 For some reason I see posts that they are not good for vocals and good for metal!? You think that is incorrect?


----------



## 93EXCivic

Seahf 320 ohm LD-3.0 vs the 400ohm vs the Ty Hi-Z 320ohm vs the 400 ohm. 

Can anyone compare the sound of these four buds? I am going to grab a high impedance earbud to try out but I am not really sure which one.


----------



## jant71

So, they are selling refurbed Senn MX680's with all the trimmings and 90-day warranty for $14 or $15 depending on the shipping speed so I grabbed a pair. These...


 ...work lovely on the RX-1. Actually only using the one small ring one my right ear and it solves my issues with fit.
  
 The Senn fins won't work on the RX-1 unless you find a way so they don't slide off. Perhaps they won't slide if put on top of a foam or something. PMX680 aren't that shabby sounding either when you fit them right. A ton of stuff for the $15 though including the case, clip, one sealed pair of foams and all four pair of fins and three pairs of rings. Always good to have a sweat/rainproof in your arsenal as well. Though the volume control extension is too hefty and I'd just use a normal extension but it may come in handy as an interconnect for the car or PC or something.
  
 Still like the RX-1 and am working with them to get the best out of them  Also, was waiting on an amp from a Kickstarter campaign so I finally have one again and find that the RX-1 really need an amp or a source with good power. More power dependent than I thought.


----------



## gwompki

jant71 said:


> Also, was waiting on an amp from a Kickstarter campaign so I finally have one again and find that the RX-1 really need an amp or a source with good power. More power dependent than I thought.




Also agree with this. Was listening to spotify at work through my phone and I couldn't ever get rid of all of the harshness. Now listening through Fiio E12a and the sound has improved vastly. I can't explain the experience in technical terms but I felt like in loud moments the headphones would start to clip. With the amp I'm not getting that.

Out of curiosity which amp are you using?


----------



## Willber

> I finally have one again and find that the RX-1 really need an amp or a source with good power. More power dependent than I thought.


 
  
 Maybe that's why I'm finding them so underwhelming, I am using them without additional amping from my laptop. Even with EQ I can't get them to impress me.


----------



## jant71

gwompki said:


> Also agree with this. Was listening to spotify at work through my phone and I couldn't ever get rid of all of the harshness. Now listening through Fiio E12a and the sound has improved vastly. I can't explain the experience in technical terms but I felt like in loud moments the headphones would start to clip. With the amp I'm not getting that.
> 
> Out of curiosity which amp are you using?


 

 Just a little UAMP to keep it small and it only gives +8dB of boost according to their rating but fills out the RX-1 quite nicely including giving the bass some more heft and reach. Still need to get my JVC caps in and get my find my final favorite fit with them but they have the oomph now to overcome a less than ideal fit/speaker a littler too far away effect for me.


----------



## boblauer

jant71 said:


> Just a little UAMP to keep it small and it only gives +8dB of boost according to their rating but fills out the RX-1 quite nicely including giving the bass some more heft and reach. Still need to get my JVC caps in and get my find my final favorite fit with them but they have the oomph now to overcome a less than ideal fit/speaker a littler too far away effect for me.


 
 What's your source? Finding this interesting as I'm using a little FiiO E6 with an X3II simply because they sounded better that way, glad others experienced this too. 
  
 BTW whos is the they in your post above that is selling the refurbed Senn's?


----------



## WillTirta

bloodypenguin said:


> I've had my eyes on these for a while now.  Really looking forward to your impressions.
> 
> May I ask where you bought it?
> 
> --



You can buy it from earbud lover indonesia elder..
Sugeng Kanzenoka on Facebook..
Hope he still have some left..


----------



## jant71

boblauer said:


> What's your source? Finding this interesting as I'm using a little FiiO E6 with an X3II simply because they sounded better that way, glad others experienced this too.
> 
> BTW whos is the they in your post above that is selling the refurbed Senn's?


 

 VMInnovations who have been doing genuine Senn refurbs forever. I bought mine on Amazon but they are on ebay as well.
 https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0035JKJ40/ref=dp_olp_refurbished?ie=UTF8&condition=refurbished
 I bought a pair on Sunday and they got to me this afternoon.
  
 I have only been using the Uamp and RX-1 with my Cowon M2 which is a not lacking but not powerful. Slightly more than some phones and other players like iriver and Sony. Seemingly enough to push the RX-1 and volume wise they only need 25 out of 40 on the volume even w/o a tighter fit but the Auglamour loses some meat off the sound which it can't afford to. The Senn rings help too plus the Cowon does seem to brighten at higher volumes so with the amp I can eliminate the accentuating treble which isn't good for the RX-1 esp. w/o the best fit.


----------



## Kelzo

I'm planning to buy the seahf 400s. Any recommendation for a cheap amp that could properly power it? Thinking of topping nx-5. Is it enough or there are other amp that I didn't heard of that might be cheaper or better?


----------



## vapman

kelzo said:


> I'm planning to buy the seahf 400s. Any recommendation for a cheap amp that could properly power it? Thinking of topping nx-5. Is it enough or there are other amp that I didn't heard of that might be cheaper or better?


 

 bMac is a bit cheaper, but will probably end up about the same price with shipping factored in, also fiio e12


----------



## golov17

kelzo said:


> I'm planning to buy the seahf 400s. Any recommendation for a cheap amp that could properly power it? Thinking of topping nx-5. Is it enough or there are other amp that I didn't heard of that might be cheaper or better?


NX5 good with 400 Ohm


----------



## golov17

https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/aw/d/B01J9FJLMY/ref=mp_s_a_1_9?__mk_ja_JP=%E3%82%AB%E3%82%BF%E3%82%AB%E3%83%8A&qid=1472702432&sr=8-9&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=%E3%83%8A%E3%82%A4%E3%83%B3%E3%82%A6%E3%82%A7%E3%83%BC%E3%83%96


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/aw/d/B01J9FJLMY/ref=mp_s_a_1_9?__mk_ja_JP=%E3%82%AB%E3%82%BF%E3%82%AB%E3%83%8A&qid=1472702432&sr=8-9&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=%E3%83%8A%E3%82%A4%E3%83%B3%E3%82%A6%E3%82%A7%E3%83%BC%E3%83%96


 
 $376 !!!!!
 I hope someone gets to try it soon! would love to hear a review & if its worth the price...


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> $376 !!!!!
> I hope someone gets to try it soon! would love to hear a review & if its worth the price...


Price just.. OMG


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/aw/d/B01J9FJLMY/ref=mp_s_a_1_9?__mk_ja_JP=%E3%82%AB%E3%82%BF%E3%82%AB%E3%83%8A&qid=1472702432&sr=8-9&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=%E3%83%8A%E3%82%A4%E3%83%B3%E3%82%A6%E3%82%A7%E3%83%BC%E3%83%96


 
 Both of these buds has been on my wish list since their announcement in the spring headphone festival in Japan.
 According to http://www.animate-onlineshop.jp/corner/cc/nw-studio_neo/cd/365/, only 100 of each will be produce and sold (200 in total).

 These earbuds are based on an animated series known as "monogatari series". These bud specifically was released in conjunction (if I am not mistaken) with the release of Kizumonogatri movie.
  
 The earbud with the Cat is representative of Hanekawa Tsubasa, one of the female protagonist in the series, where she would turn into a half-cat half human due to excessive stress. 
 The other red earbud in the series is representative of KissShot AcerolaOrion HeartUnderbalde (long name I know), who is a vampire.
  
 Sorry if I accidentally geeked out.


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Both of these buds has been on my wish list since their announcement in the spring headphone festival in Japan.
> 
> According to http://www.animate-onlineshop.jp/corner/cc/nw-studio_neo/cd/365/, only 100 of each will be produce and sold (200 in total).
> 
> ...


 interesting story .. but what's with the sound?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> interesting story .. but what's with the sound?


 
 No idea mate hahaha.
  
 Have you heard any earbuds from Nine-Wave studio before? Maybe they will be similar?
 Maybe?


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> No idea mate hahaha.
> 
> Have you heard any earbuds from Nine-Wave studio before? Maybe they will be similar?
> Maybe?


NW Studio other vs Studio Pro..


----------



## Tomasz2D

springbay said:


> Do get the Boarseman MX98s. It's a very nice bud that is mentioned too seldom in this thread. But do your self a favor and add the Seahf LD-3.0 320 to the order as well. The price at HCK @ AE is a steal right now. Your future self will thank you. I'm on my third day with the LD-3.0 320 and still puzzled how there can be such a terrific all rounder.


 
 I am not really SeaHF fun I think. I own these "bug guy" products already:
 Monk / TY 32
 SeaHF LD 3.0 150
 SeaHF Smart 1.0 320 (older Zen 1.0.)
 SeaHF Smart 2.0 320
 SeaHF LD 3.0 400
 and from above I like Monk / TY 32 the most. From higher impendence models it would be former Zen 1.0, although I find it somehow numb and unexciting.
 But I am intrigued about what you said about LD 3.0 320. Can you say why you prefer it over Boarseman MX98s or Cygnus?


----------



## Danneq

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






golov17 said:


> https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/aw/d/B01J9FJLMY/ref=mp_s_a_1_9?__mk_ja_JP=%E3%82%AB%E3%82%BF%E3%82%AB%E3%83%8A&qid=1472702432&sr=8-9&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=%E3%83%8A%E3%82%A4%E3%83%B3%E3%82%A6%E3%82%A7%E3%83%BC%E3%83%96



  


  

  
 I found both NW Studio and NW Studio Pro to be underwhelming. Heck, even Monk, Monk + or Ty HiZ HP32 beat those. I sold both of them...


----------



## Tomasz2D

golov17 said:


> https://www.amazon.co.jp/


 
  


audionewbi3 said:


> Both of these buds has been on my wish list since their announcement in the spring headphone festival in Japan.


 
  
 Gentlemen, I thought we have just finished exploring China in this thread and we are in yet unexplored Indonesia presently or do we take a trip to Japan already ? )))))))


----------



## Danneq

If you want good sounding Japanese earbuds that cost $300-400 it's better to find vintage Sony (MDR-E252, E272, E282 or E484). The really good Aiwa ones are probably more than that.


----------



## mock-up

danneq said:


> If you want good sounding Japanese earbuds that cost $300-400 it's better to find vintage Sony (MDR-E252, E272, E282 or E484). The really good Aiwa ones are probably more than that.


 
  
 Give us a Aiwa names!


----------



## mock-up

tomasz2d said:


> I am not really SeaHF fun I think. I own these "bug guy" products already:
> Monk / TY 32
> SeaHF LD 3.0 150
> SeaHF Smart 1.0 320 (older Zen 1.0.)
> ...


 
  
 WHAT? Bugguy made original Monk!
 I love SeaHF LD 4.0 400 better!


----------



## mock-up

tomasz2d said:


> Gentlemen, I thought we have just finished exploring China in this thread and we are in yet unexplored Indonesia presently or do we take a trip to Japan already ? )))))))


 
  
 Guys from Indonesia and Tailand just repack some China buds. It's better to look for original


----------



## Danneq

I've only heard HP-D9 of the top end ones, but HP-V9 and HP-V99 are almost legendary.

 Still, the top end Sony ones are really really good and for a long time you could not find anything better (not even Yuin). Now the earbuds makers are catching upp and I think there are Chinese (and Thai and Indonesian etc) makers and DIY modders who make earbuds that sound better than the old top en Sony earbuds. A lot cheaper too...


----------



## vapman

I love the design of the HP-V9/V99. They looks insane in a great way.
  
 I wonder if this guy with a lot of HP-v151 is worth spending 15+shipping on or if it's just old junk? 16mm is a good size...
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aiwa-HP-V151-VINTAGE-In-Ear-Earbuds-Headphones-Stereo-Acoustic-Bass-Dynamic-NEW-/252507505213?hash=item3aca9ec23d:gYMAAOSw7NNUF2CJ


----------



## Tomasz2D

mock-up said:


> WHAT? Bugguy made original Monk!
> I love SeaHF LD 4.0 400 better!


 
  
 OK, I did not say they are bad - I said what I like and what I dislike. It's just a matter of personal taste. Some of you may think - "But I do not care if he likes it on not - why he writes about it?" - but for me it is important because this is the only way to find our sound signature twins here, that we can follow later. So I encourage everybody to openly write about what earbuds they like and dislike.


----------



## Danneq

Lower end Aiwas and Sonys are so-so at best. A pair of Monk+ will beat them without breaking a sweat...


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> Lower end Aiwas and Sonys are so-so at best. A pair of Monk+ will beat them without breaking a sweat...


 

 Thanks for the heads up, figured you'd know and I can't be going on just my  20+ year old memories of how a bud sounded.
 Plus I am happy to save that $17 or so


----------



## jrazmar

I'm thinking of buying a Seahf, which is which - LD 3.0 320 or 400 or LD 4.0 320 or 400? Anybody???


----------



## golov17

Del


----------



## golov17

Del


----------



## dearyon

mock-up said:


> Guys from Indonesia and Tailand just repack some China buds. It's better to look for original


 
 Not really. I know most of raw parts are came from China but then it is re-tuned and assembled in another country. That doesn't make things are simply "just repack".


----------



## springbay

tomasz2d said:


> I am not really SeaHF fun I think. I own these "bug guy" products already:
> Monk / TY 32
> SeaHF LD 3.0 150
> SeaHF Smart 1.0 320 (older Zen 1.0.)
> ...


 
  
 My recommendation to Vapman, might have seemed random, but there are some thoughts to it, lol.
 I know Vapman has one of the Seahf 400 models, but I don't know if it is the LD-3 or LD-4 though. When reading his review of the his 400 buds, I know he loves the bass of his model.
 From another of his review I know that Vapman have used the Front 242 - Official Version album for testing his full sized cans. Right before posting my comment last night I listened to the Front 242 - Evil Off album and was amazed how great the LD-3 320 presented the album. And let me tell you, some tracks on that album can be quite shocking to listen to with earphones, IEM's and ear buds.
  
 I don't have the 400-models with me yet, but the Smart 1.0 (thanks to a very generous and kind Head-fier), LD-3 400 and LD-4 400 are being shipped to me right now. So in a couple of weeks I can make some comparisons.
  
 From what I've read, the Smart 1.0 (that you have) should be somewhere between the Zen 1 and the LD-3 320 in sound, with the LD-3 320 being the most transparent of the three, with a little less bass impact. Therefore I think the LD-3 320 should be a very nice complement to the devil bass 400 model that Vapman already have.
  
 Regarding the Boarseman MX98S. I really like that bud. Though with thin MP+ foams or the included donuts it can get a bit to sibilant for my taste. My favourite foam combo on the MX98s is with both donuts and full foams. In that set up I've experienced the most engaging sound from a head gear ever. Almost kind of like the sound you can experience, when you are at the toilet in a club late night, quite intoxicated, and your favourite song is played on the dance floor, and you experience that euphoria when your arms and legs can't stay still, and you don't want the night to ever end. That sound it is of course very far from neutral. But I adore it.
  
 The Cygnus is a terrific bud as well. My only problem is that it can get quite fatiguing after an hour or so when listening to modern pop/dance music. And to be honest, most of the time I listen to Kpop or Krap with my head gear.
  
 This is were the LD-3 320 comes in. I've thrown all of my usual test tracks on them. The only part that can be a tiny little troublesome is @00:37 of Ayumi Hamasaki - Sparkle
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsiAo3ubipM
 But the LD3 320 handles that transition almost as good as the Zen 2 that is top of the class in that regard, and most other IEM's and buds I have just fail miserably @00:37.
 The instrument separation on Led Zeppelin - Babe I'm Gonna Leave You, is spot on and in the intro to Deep Purple - Child in Time (Made in Japan) I feel like I'm sitting inside of Ian Paice's drum set. The list goes on and on. But the most amazing presentation is that of Yosi Horikawa - Bubbles
 https://soundcloud.com/yosi-horikawa/bubbles
 Bubbles is the first track I put on when trying out new head gear, and the LD-3 320 out performs just about any other head gear I have. Simply amazing detail.
  
 I've tried them directly from my Iphone6s, through my HTPC K5/x3ii set up and though my VE RA 2. And even if the phone is far from optimal for driving the buds, it doesn't sound half as bad as if you try to run the Zen 2 out of the phone. I know Vapman is a die hard amp guy, and I suppose he will use an amp even with the MX98s and the Cygnus, even though he don't need one with those buds. But give the LD-3 some additional amping and they will out perform both of the other buds in lows/mids/highs, instrument separation and detail, without breaking a sweat.
  
 Hence my recommendation for them as the best all rounder bud I've experienced so far. And the current price of 45€ @HCK is nothing but a steal. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
*Edit.* I forgot to write that I use them with MP+ thin foams.


----------



## Danneq

dearyon said:


> Not really. I know most of raw parts are came from China but then it is re-tuned and assembled in another country. That doesn't make things are simply "just repack".


 

 Yeah, I've only heard Edimun V3, but that clearly shows how Indonesians can take a cheap and okay sounding Chinese earbud (Edifier H180) and turn it into a more expensive but really great sounding earbud.


----------



## Tomasz2D

springbay said:


> I don't have the 400-models with me yet, but the Smart 1.0 (thanks to a very generous and kind Head-fier), LD-3 400 and LD-4 400 are being shipped to me right now. So in a couple of weeks I can make some comparisons.


 
  
 Very well, I will wait for your comparison first. I thought I was finished with Seahf already and generally I started to be very picky with new earbuds purchases but you got my attention with that LD-3 320. OK, let's wait and see what will you say when you get them all.
 P.S. thanks for tracks examples - I will check them later at home.


----------



## dearyon

springbay said:


> My recommendation to Vapman, might have seemed random, but there are some thoughts to it, lol.
> I know Vapman has one of the Seahf 400 models, but I don't know if it is the LD-3 or LD-4 though. When reading his review of the his 400 buds, I know he loves the bass of his model.
> From another of his review I know that Vapman have used the Front 242 - Official Version album for testing his full sized cans. Right before posting my comment last night I listened to the Front 242 - Evil Off album and was amazed how great the LD-3 320 presented the album. And let me tell you, some tracks on that album can be quite shocking to listen to with earphones, IEM's and ear buds.
> 
> ...


 
 How is the vocal on LD 3.0 320 ohm? Is it fatiguing?

 Honestly, I haven't really found my favorite earbuds, It's hard for me to search for one because I have limited budget
 and most of Indonesian taste is warm to bright, it is hard to find my twins friend here atm.
 searching for earbuds that are:
 -excel on vocal and mid-range without being peaky and fatiguing upper-mid
 -good bass impact and extension (note: only good is enough, I don't need Zen 1 quality of bass as I'm afraid that I'm asking too much)
 -silky smooth high that is non-fatiguing

 I think I'm searching for dark sounding earbuds, I want to jump right into Zen 2 but I don't have any amp. that worth for it lol


----------



## JASru

Just pulled the trigger on rx-1 + tomahawk, guess that would be an ok step up from Monk+.
 I guess if I like them the next step should be Cygnus and Ting?
 Would Cygnus and Ting be okay with 770C new as DAP or should I get something more decent?

 Btw, what do you think - is getting Aigo Z6 + VE Zen 2 (w/o amp) a bad idea?


----------



## springbay

dearyon said:


> How is the vocal on LD 3.0 320 ohm? Is it fatiguing?


 
  
 Well, that was part of my point with my last post, that they are not fatiguing to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But at the same time, we all listen to different music and we use different sources. You will want to use an amp with the LD-3 320. I don't recommend getting them if you'll just plug them into the phone.
  
 Instead of talking in general terms. I'll post a couple of tracks below that gets very fatiguing for me when using the Cygnus, but sounds just about right on the LD-3 320:
  
 Shin Zisu - Hey Jude (Feat. Sleeq) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGLUeMdUSAk
 4MINUTE - Crazy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nCLBTmjJBY
 Cheetah - My Number - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9ZPYxqZQ2I
 Lim Kim - Awoo - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXPADwU05OQ


----------



## dearyon

springbay said:


> Well, that was part of my point with my last post, that they are not fatiguing to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 thanks for the list! will listen to them through Zen 1 and Tomahawk as those two are easily fatiguing earbuds for me.


----------



## fairx

My o2 arrived!!

Although I don't have any good dac yet to compare, but I've tested my Samsung sgs and iPhone 5 with fitear before (demo set) and I can sure of their superb detail retrieval performance. 

Now using sgs as transport > O2 > ty hi-z 32ohm (with tomahawk foam) Ty suddenly transformed into a new earbud I never heard before. 

For now I just listened to my reggae collections ( tribal seeds, Sublime, alpha blondie, rebelution, souljah etc) everything sound so new and refreshing. Extension, Separation and layering is way better than unamped. Although still not reaching tomahawk level yet. 

Now I'm confident to get high ohm bud and recent surge of rave from seasoned earbud user really motivate me.

Cheers.


----------



## slappypete

Hi guys. So I received my Ty Hi-Z 320 ohm and Seahf V1 320 ohm buds about a week ago. These are both Zen 1 lookalikes. My initial impressions are that I am not that fond of the Seahf bud and love the Ty Hi-Z, but these are the only higher end earbuds I have ever had so I don't have much to compare to. The Ty Hi-Z definitely has better bass and more forward mids than the Seahf. I have a bunch of other buds coming in the mail including the monk plus, Ty Hi-Z 32, and RX-1, so I will be able to do more detailed reviews and comparisons in the future. I really wish I had a Zen 1 to compare to. From what I have seen in measurements, and also read in sound impressions about the Zen 1, I would have to say I think its likely the Ty Hi-Z is more of a Zen 1 clone than the Seahf. Of course I haven't even heard the Zen 1. 
  
 I took some quick measurements of the two buds today to confirm the differences in sound. Here is the comparison:
  

 Keep in mind when looking at this that these are raw measurements taken on my non professional measurement rig. This can not be compared to other measurements. You can't look at the bass and highs and compare the weight of the two and make conclusions about the sound of the buds because in reality that depends on seal and the seal of my system is guaranteed to not be the same as a human ear. The spikes at 2K can also not be looked at too harshly because this is an uncompensated system. These can not even be compared to "raw" graphs from other sources. What we can do is compare the two frequency response curves of the two buds to each other. 
  
 Anyway, I am really enjoying the Ty Hi-Z so far. I prefer listening to it over my AKG K7XX.


----------



## Tomasz2D

So I got this cheap hybrid DAC/amp Racoon SG-300 from Massdrop. It costed 80 USD + shpg but I actually prefer it more than my Chord Mojo when paired with Zen 2.0. It looks like Zen 2.0 had to meet Racoon to wake up finally.


----------



## Saoshyant

Keep in mind, the Mojo can sound very polite, so it can take some of the fun out of a phone.


----------



## Tomasz2D

saoshyant said:


> Keep in mind, the Mojo can sound very polite, so it can take some of the fun out of a phone.


 
 You are right and I still prefer Mojo with other earbuds that I have tried already. At single note level it would be still Mojo even for Zen 2.0 - nicer single note sound but Zen 2.0 connected to Racoon opened significantly with more lively dynamics.  So I prefer Zen 2.0 with Racoon for overall better experience.


----------



## ld100

Can't wait for dual driver impressions... I hope someone receives theirs soon... Anyone yet?


----------



## gwompki

Listening to RX 1 again today at work un-amped straight from my phone. Really harsh sounding to my ears. So crazy that a low impedance bud can benefit that greatly from amping. Unless the amp is really just coloring the sound that much.


----------



## rggz

I'm wondering why the MX500 shell has this space for vent-port but when in fact, this is just blocked (at least in all of my models based on this shell). The same case with my Yuin/cygnus based shell style which has this similar port.

 Is it just aesthetics, right? I believe it can be useful for some acoustic tuning, but I think I'm overthinking about that, lol.


----------



## Fabi

Quick impressions on Elibuds Sabia V2 with thin foams
  
 Slightly V-shaped, good soundstage, bass is deep and impactful with little emphasis on mid-bass, vocals are slightly recessed, there is a peak in upper midrange/treble. 
 It sounds very well with clean and clear amping to make it less noticeable V-shaped.
 I'm not a V-shaped guy but I find it very good for the price. Very good package btw (metal box, foams).
 I may not keep them but I'm still interested in Saida V1 if it has better mids for my taste.
  
 TY-32 pairs better with my DAP with better soundstage and better mids but not better bass, so it's still my fav in the sub $10-15 earbuds for the moment.


----------



## vapman

springbay good to know you have awesome tastes in muzic! Lil Kim and F242. Awesome.

My seahf 400 is a ld3.0. If I ever get the 4.0 I will let you guys know. For now I think I might order seahf 320 and boarseman mx98s. Unless I should really order a seahf 400 v4 instead... Maybe will go TY this time as on the last page we got a graph that shows the ty 320 to be bassier!

Fabi finally a Sabia review... Sweet! Can you post your source/amp setup?


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> @springbay good to know you have awesome tastes in muzic! Lil Kim and F242. Awesome.
> 
> My seahf 400 is a ld3.0. If I ever get the 4.0 I will let you guys know. For now I think I might order seahf 320 and boarseman mx98s. Unless I should really order a seahf 400 v4 instead... Maybe will go TY this time as on the last page we got a graph that shows the ty 320 to be bassier!
> 
> @Fabi finally a Sabia review... Sweet! Can you post your source/amp setup?


 
 how is mx98s ?
 Any idea ?


----------



## kinetic758

ld100 said:


> Can't wait for dual driver impressions... I hope someone receives theirs soon... Anyone yet?




Mine is in my city but just got into cutsoms. Should hopefully have it next week.


----------



## Saoshyant

Well guys, given Audeze has made a planar IEM, I wonder if they'll try a planar earbud.  I somehow doubt it, but I'd love to see them try.


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> Well guys, given Audeze has made a planar IEM, I wonder if they'll try a planar earbud.  I somehow doubt it, but I'd love to see them try.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

wow i would loev to try a planar earbud!


----------



## music4mhell

tayyab pirzada said:


> wow i would loev to try a planar earbud!


 
 May be after 5/10 years


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Ok I didn't really believe that different tubes can do much, and I was using a standard RCA Clear-Top 12AU7 tube for my Project Starlight amp, but I just tried the Telefunken 12AT7 (which I got for cheap on ebay) and WOW. The bass and detailing with Zen 2.0 is probably twice as good as it was before. My only qualm with the Zen 2.0 was the sub-bass (it wasn't _that _amazing) but this tube has just solved that problem for me. What an incredible noticeable difference!


----------



## Saoshyant

golov17 said:


>




I'm quite tempted to order it


----------



## music4mhell

saoshyant said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


 
 Wish they can make an earbud, even they will price at 1 Grand $ i will buy.
 I never felt comfortable wearing IEM  I am in minority.


----------



## Saoshyant

Hmm, perhaps an earbud tip? Might accomplish something interesting. I mean just imagine, an earbud that maxes out at 3 watts. I'd go deaf!


----------



## ld100

What are the best earbuds for house music in your opinion? I am trying to figure out what I should try next and Rose seems to be not a good fit based on the latest feedback. I would like something that would handle vocals and bass well...


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

ld100 said:


> What are the best earbuds for house music in your opinion? I am trying to figure out what I should try next and Rose seems to be not a good fit based on the latest feedback. I would like something that would handle vocals and bass well...


 
 Zen 2 if you can find a good amp that will upgrade the bass. Maybe one of the Seahf buds. Ostry KC08 I would reccomend just for its sub-bass but the vocals are kind of dry.


----------



## kurtextrem

Guys, as audio newb I have a question: On my pc, I have the sound card Creative Sound Blaster Z. It has an amped headphone jack (3.5mm) which supports up to 600 Ohm (according to the tech specs). Now the but: I have an extension cable put in that jack, because it's on the back side. Are the 600 Ohm still supported over the extension cable?
 And the biggest question: Will it support Zen 2?


----------



## Fabi

vapman said:


> Fabi finally a Sabia review... Sweet! Can you post your source/amp setup?


 DX90 mm1 > VE RA+ on high gain > Sabia V2


----------



## JASru

Has anyone tried  - http://penonaudio.com/DIY-PHEB01-Earbuds / http://ru.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-Handmade-PB-24ohm-Hi-Fi-DDM-Dual-Diaphragm-Matrix-Dynamic-Audiophile-Earphone-Earbuds/32651127312.html?spm=2114.13010308.0.44.YDcBiE  ?

 Same question about this: http://penonaudio.com/Paiaudio-PR1


----------



## kurtextrem

jasru said:


> Has anyone tried  - http://penonaudio.com/DIY-PHEB01-Earbuds / http://ru.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-Handmade-PB-24ohm-Hi-Fi-DDM-Dual-Diaphragm-Matrix-Dynamic-Audiophile-Earphone-Earbuds/32651127312.html?spm=2114.13010308.0.44.YDcBiE  ?
> 
> Same question about this: http://penonaudio.com/Paiaudio-PR1


 
 Yes, the first one is the DIY Dual Driver (it's also on the list in the first post) - it has a "in your face" sound. Comparison: Usually the sound comes from left and right. With that bud, the sound comes directly from in front of your face.
  
 but that's not so good for gaming...


----------



## Willber

kurtextrem said:


> Yes, the first one is the DIY Dual Driver (it's also on the list in the first post)


 
  
 I see the list is now a 'lite' version with no descriptions of sound:
  
 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wGTZnKX1aP29c1bzs5JWgqSUlPzZqV9p_cw79VfRBpQ/pub


----------



## JASru

Wish the descritions would be back,I am a newbie and this list helps with navigation a lot.


----------



## petan970

Is there a general rule that higher impedance earbuds are/sound better?
For example Seahf LD-3.0 400 is better than Seahf LD-3.0 150?


----------



## Tomasz2D

petan970 said:


> Is there a general rule that higher impedance earbuds are/sound better?
> For example Seahf LD-3.0 400 is better than Seahf LD-3.0 150?


 
 It's a little bit like with megapixels in photocamera market. Do more MP mean better pictures? No. It's just one of many factors. In fact my favorite earbuds are these low impendence ones. But this is very good and simple way to advertise products to customers.


----------



## David Mitchell

After 21 days of (im)patience, I received the Monk Plus! I'm getting a pretty good fit with the rubber rings and (so far) without foams. I'm going to reserve judgement on the sound signature until they've had some time to break in, but I can understand why they're so popular. By the way, I'm using my faithful old Corda Headfive fed by onboard audio from a Gigabyte G1.Sniper H6, an audio-focused motherboard (it made for a very inexpensive upgrade with my last computer update).


----------



## Tomasz2D

jasru said:


> Has anyone tried  - http://penonaudio.com/DIY-PHEB01-Earbuds / http://ru.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-Handmade-PB-24ohm-Hi-Fi-DDM-Dual-Diaphragm-Matrix-Dynamic-Audiophile-Earphone-Earbuds/32651127312.html?spm=2114.13010308.0.44.YDcBiE  ?
> 
> Same question about this: http://penonaudio.com/Paiaudio-PR1


 
 I have both of them and don't like them. But in sub $30 category I like the most AuGlamour RX-1, Black Onyx Earbud, Elibuds Sabia v2, FiiO EM3, Meizu EP-21HD, Pioneer SE-CE521, Tingo TG-38s, TY Hi-Z HP-32 32 Ohm, Boarseman MX98s.and Monk Plus.


----------



## vapman

The seller I bought my TY Hi-Z 32 from asked me to extend the processing time by 5 days because of some "warehouse complications".
  
 5 days isn't all that much so i was like "sure" and did it. That was the only thing I bought from them though and was like $5.20 with shipping.
  
 Anyone else got a good store for the Hi-Z 32's, which i totally missed the boat on, preferably someone who stocks Boardseman 98s and the TY/Hi-Z 320's?
  
 From all @springbay posts and other Hi-Z/SeaHf 320 owners I gotta check it out..
  
 Unfortunately this morning my SeaHf 400 3.0 got all rattly and nasty on one side after my usual bass bumping, so i'm almost considering getting a TY or SeaHf 400 4.0 too (or instead of the 320)
  
 Someone convince me to get the 320 (never heard) or the new version 400 (know & love v3)?!
  
 And the reason I'm interested in the Boarseman is I've been interested in them for a long time but never checked them out, and also owned Cygnus while I had them, and was thinking if I should get one of those instead of a L plug Cygnus when those comes out.


----------



## JASru

@tomasz2d RX-1 and Tomahawk are on the way from Easy already =)Thx for the info.
 As I understand RX-1 is rumored to be one of the best options for sound/price/package combo.


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> I have both of them and don't like them. But in sub $30 category I like the most AuGlamour RX-1, Black Onyx Earbud, Elibuds Sabia v2, FiiO EM3, Meizu EP-21HD, Pioneer SE-CE521, Tingo TG-38s, TY Hi-Z HP-32 32 Ohm, *Boarseman MX98s.*and Monk Plus.


 
  
 1. Where'd you get that Sabia v2? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 2. Since when are Boarseman under $40!!!! Last I checked I SWEAR the MX98s was a $60-70 bud. well now I have to order one especially if it can compete against Cygnus.
 3. Even though I don't own a set anymore (I do own some of the accessories still, lol) I still think the RX1 is the best for the money _after_ the monk.
  
 4. Can anyone tell me or link to instructions on how the #$*% you open a Monk shell? I have one with a demolished 3.5mm plug and would like to recable the whole thing.


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> 1. Where'd you get that Sabia v2?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Boarseman MX98s
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-Original-Boarseman-MX98s-In-Ear-Earphone-DIY-HIFI-Bass-Earphone-Use-For-Mp3-Phone-PC/32664099804.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.82.3mizeh
  
 Elibuds Sabia v2 - you have to chat with them
https://www.facebook.com/EliAudioIndonesia/


----------



## vapman

Were they always that cheap? I really swear the last time I was looking at them they were about 3x that price 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Ordered now!
  
  
 I am putting an order together and noticing there are both TY Hi-Z 400 and 400s... what's up with that? They don't even seem to look different in the listing.
  
 And if anyone knows the $12 Seahf 32, i wonder if it's better than TY Hi-Z 32 and monk?
  
  
 I also could have sworn I read somewhere the 150 has even deeper bass than the 400. Argh, I must know, and don't want to buy them all...


----------



## springbay

vapman said:


> Anyone else got a good store for the Hi-Z 32's, which i totally missed the boat on, preferably someone who stocks Boardseman 98s and the TY/Hi-Z 320's?


 
  
 I got my Hi-Z 32 from Easy, but with a faulty 3.5 mm jack. I got my Hi-Z 150 today (320 is listed in the same product page), also from Easy. No problem with the jack on the 150.
 My Boarseman MX98s were from HCK. HCK also sell the Seahf LD-3 320 wink wink nudge nudge.


----------



## Fabi

vapman said:


> I am putting an order together and noticing there are both TY Hi-Z 400 and 400s... what's up with that? They don't even seem to look different in the listing.
> 
> I also could have sworn I read somewhere the 150 has even deeper bass than the 400. Argh, I must know, and don't want to buy them all...


 
 From specs 400s has higher sensitivity 120db than 400 with 110db, and 400s may be more balanced.
 I am interested in 400s but have to try others first.
  
 Agree with you, from what I read, 150 seems to have more slam bass than the other higher impedance versions but never tried it.
  
  


vapman said:


> And if anyone knows the $12 Seahf 32, i wonder if it's better than TY Hi-Z 32 and monk?


 
 Hopefully I will know it next week.


----------



## vapman

springbay said:


> I got my Hi-Z 32 from Easy, but with a faulty 3.5 mm jack. I got my Hi-Z 150 today (320 is listed in the same product page), also from Easy. No problem with the jack on the 150.
> My Boarseman MX98s were from HCK. HCK also sell the Seahf LD-3 320 wink wink nudge nudge.


 

 You think there's a good reason I should get the 3.0 320 instead of the 4.0?
  
 I really want to get the 400 or 400s but am tempted to try a 320 as well. I am gonna get the 150 because it is cheap enough to not worry too much about getting it. All the 320/400s are in the $50-60 range so it's not as easy to load up on them.


----------



## vapman

Last question: QianYun Qian39, worth $6?
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-Original-QianYun-Qian39-Bass-In-Ear-Earphone-Dynamic-Flat-Head-Plug-HIFI-Earphone-Free-Shipping/32664671603.html


----------



## springbay

vapman said:


> You think there's a good reason I should get the 3.0 320 instead of the 4.0?
> 
> I really want to get the 400 or 400s but am tempted to try a 320 as well. I am gonna get the 150 because it is cheap enough to not worry too much about getting it. All the 320/400s are in the $50-60 range so it's not as easy to load up on them.


 
 If you are talking abut the Hi-Z 150. I gave them some ear time along with the MusicMaker TP16 that arrived in the same shipment today. None of them impressed me. I guess they are decent given the 15€ price tag. I enjoyed the TP16 more than the Tomahawk, but neither the TP16 nor the Hi-Z 150 will get much more ear time. They just don't fill any gap in my previous collection.
  
 I'm just totally sold on my LD-3 320. I know you are aiming for that bass boast in all your head gear, so I should just stop recommending them to you. But they are so freaking pleasurable. I started watching a Blockbuster action movie this evening with my Fidelio X2 full sized cans, but I could just not continue after half an hour, due to the somewhat boomy bass and lack of clarity. I changed to the LD-3 320 and everything felt just right.
  
 So I guess you should just give one of the Hi-Z 400 models a try if you think they will give you that devil bass you are looking for. I can only comment that you wont get much more bass impact from the Hi-Z 150 than from the Boarseman MX98s. And the MX98s are no bass monsters at all.


----------



## mochill

Check out heavenly sound earbuds


----------



## gwompki

Just got some hiegi donut foams for the RX1. Much better at helping it stay in my ear. Interesting that keeping it close to my ear canal without the driver covered with additional foam has kept certain frequencies nice and crisp while bringing up the low end. Just curious if anyone has any tips for keeping them on the Rx1? They seem to come off quite easily.

Springbay is seriously making me consider the Seahf 320. I think I might have to break down and buy a pair, but wonderin if I should just hold out for Zen 2.0. Sounds like they give the Zen a run for their money. Then I see the TY Hi Z 320 which looks identical and is priced similarly...wondering which to buy. Decisions decisions....


----------



## Frederick Wang

Still waiting for a Edimun V3 and Red De'mun comparison...
 I think I'm gonna buy one of the two with Bmac amp


----------



## vapman

springbay said:


> So I guess you should just give one of the Hi-Z 400 models a try if you think they will give you that devil bass you are looking for. I can only comment that you wont get much more bass impact from the Hi-Z 150 than from the Boarseman MX98s. And the MX98s are no bass monsters at all.


 
 This information right here is gold, thank you. Some people say the 150's were bass cannons but I know people who would cal the Cygnus bass monsters too.
 I think i'll get the MX98s, new 400 (400 or 400s i am not sure) and the 320.
  
 What i'm curious about though in my 400 is the LD 3.0. I am curious if I should go for 320 3.0 or 4.0.


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> Were they always that cheap? I really swear the last time I was looking at them they were about 3x that price :eek:
> Ordered now!
> 
> 
> ...



Afaik, Boarseman mx98 $20 and mx98s $40.
Mx98 with cold sensation, segmented for metal genre and mx98s with more allround, a little bit similar sound like musa sp2/ve asura v1.

And yes, seahf 32ohm far better than monk/ty-hiz. Bette4 bass impact, better treble extension, better separation, staging, & detail but more laidback vocal.
And btw, you should try elibuds v2. For a $10 bud, it's performance far exceed its price.
And the last bud i try and shivering me down: Raid Bud by Laki audio.
Very great performance for a $20 earbud


----------



## vapman

Does Elibud ordering only happen on facebook? or any stores that stock em?
  
 Thanks for the mini review @Joy Boy i will consider getting the seahf 32 then


----------



## Townyj

vapman said:


> Does Elibud ordering only happen on facebook? or any stores that stock em?
> 
> Thanks for the mini review @Joy Boy
> i will consider getting the seahf 32 then




Online store isnt up yet.. order directly from them on FB. Just a paypal payment and they will ship them out.


----------



## dearyon

springbay said:


> Well, that was part of my point with my last post, that they are not fatiguing to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I've listened to these song and I got some peaky vocal with Zen 1 and Tomahawk and that the source of my fatigue. Guess I should consider buying Seahf LD3.0 320 ohm...
  
 Quote:


vapman said:


> 1. Where'd you get that Sabia v2?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 Just use your finger nail to open Monk housing (both Original Monk and Monk+ housing is easy to open)
  
 Quote:



vapman said:


> This information right here is gold, thank you. Some people say the 150's were bass cannons but I know people who would cal the Cygnus bass monsters too.
> I think i'll get the MX98s, new 400 (400 or 400s i am not sure) and the 320.
> 
> What i'm curious about though in my 400 is the LD 3.0. I am curious if I should go for 320 3.0 or 4.0.


 
 There is no 4.0 for 320 ohm. LD4.0 is only for that new 400 ohm from Seahf.
 Yeah, Seahf/TY Hi-Z product line is so confusing, that is what holding me back to buy their product


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> Does Elibud ordering only happen on facebook? or any stores that stock em?
> 
> Thanks for the mini review @Joy Boy
> i will consider getting the seahf 32 then



There's an online local-store (tokopedia.com). But i think ordering voa facebook is easier because tolopedia only available in indonesia language And there's no international shipping option. 
Just PM Eli audio page.

Your welcome mate


----------



## vapman

dearyon said:


> There is no 4.0 for 320 ohm. LD4.0 is only for that new 400 ohm from Seahf.
> Yeah, Seahf/TY Hi-Z product line is so confusing, that is what holding me back to buy their product


 

 Thank you! But, do you know what the difference in sound is between the TY 400 and 400s? can't decide which to get.


----------



## mochill

You guys need to really check out heavenly sound earbuds


----------



## Townyj

mochill said:


> You guys need to really check out heavenly sound earbuds




Been enquiring on them.. but they wont get back to me on shipping. Not gonna spend time chasing them up every day, kinda annoying really.


----------



## luedriver

I just orderd some donut foams
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/earphone-sponge-earphone-foam-ear-pads-three-colors/32245327908.html
  
 that ryanjso posted on the cynus thread, saying that they are almost identical to stock cygnus foams,
  
 they come in red, black and white, and cost less than $3.5 usd for 6 pairs
  
 I asked for 4 black and 2 white, don't know yet if they can mix colors
  
just a fyi for anyone who's looking for donut foams similar to the cygnus (hopefully)


----------



## vapman

Just ordered:

Boarseman MX98s, QianYun Quan39, SeaHf 32ohm.

Will buy either Seahf or TY 320/400/400s. There is very little information i can find on the 400S. I can't decide which one i want...


----------



## music4mhell

springbay said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone else got a good store for the Hi-Z 32's, which i totally missed the boat on, preferably someone who stocks Boardseman 98s and the TY/Hi-Z 320's?
> ...


How is mx98s ?


----------



## kurtextrem

vapman said:


> Just ordered:
> 
> Boarseman MX98s, QianYun Quan39, SeaHf 32ohm.
> 
> Will buy either Seahf or TY 320/400/400s. There is very little information i can find on the 400S. I can't decide which one i want...


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/9000#post_12813420
 this may help you


----------



## fairx

whole day testing my tomahawk with O2. Apart from my rx-1 which is still at friend, tomahawk beat all my other earbud and iem. PRAT and musical. Micro details expanded stage and vocals fixed. No longer vocals and mids in your face. Now I can listen in low volume and get better details. But Go past 1 o'clock in 1x gain volume somehow sounds fatigued.


----------



## kartik7405

i received rx-1 few days back.As i have small ear it fits perfectly without foam.I tried heigi donut and stock foam does not like this sound as well as fitting.
 i have dislike of earbud/headphone with harsh treble.i manage to reduce the forward vocal and treble harshness by pasting a surgical tape on top the headphone.Trust me its best way to reduce harshness without effecting sound quality.Foam makes sound dull and unintresting. Now it sounds great; bass is punchy and everything sound.
  
         Now which will be my next purchase.Any suggestion based on my sound preference ??


----------



## mock-up

Go for it
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/9000#post_12813420


----------



## dearyon

vapman said:


> Thank you! But, do you know what the difference in sound is between the TY 400 and 400s? can't decide which to get.


 
 ClieOS already rated them, just check the ranking 


kurtextrem said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/9000#post_12813420
> this may help you


 
 He/she is talking about Seahf not TY, but then he/she quoted ClieOS rank which is TY brand not Seahf. Confusing, really....


----------



## Tomasz2D

The situation with SeaHF / TY really drives me crazy. Just too many models in to short time. And they really should care to put at least some sort of sticker with model name on the box.
 Recently I have ordered from TaoBao what was said to be Smart 2.0 320 Ohms and I received this:
  

  
 But it looks like LD-3.0 320 Ohms really. Can anybody help me to confirm what Seahf model it is in fact please?


----------



## haiku

tomasz2d said:


> The situation with SeaHF / TY really drives me crazy. Just too many models in to short time. And they really should care to put at least some sort of sticker with model name on the box.
> Recently I have ordered from TaoBao what was said to be Smart 2.0 320 Ohms and I received this:
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hey Tomasz,
 Don´t worry. It´s Smart 2.0 320 Ohm. Enjoy.


----------



## Tomasz2D

haiku said:


> Hey Tomasz,
> Don´t worry. It´s Smart 2.0 320 Ohm. Enjoy.


 
 By the way Haiku, is Smart 2.0 320 Ohm still your number 1 in Seahf range? I think it was. And where was LD-3.0 320 Ohms placed?


----------



## Fabi

mochill said:


> You guys need to really check out heavenly sound earbuds



Which pair do you have ? Any comparison ? 
Do they find a solution to ship overseas ? 
Thanks Mo


----------



## mochill

I have the :beat,groove,sonata,concerto

Still burning in slowly and enjoying them alot, and shipping is from a bubby of mine


----------



## kvad

vapman said:


> And if anyone knows the $12 Seahf 32, i wonder if it's better than TY Hi-Z 32 and monk?


 
  
 Just started listening to the SeaHF LD 4.0 32Ω.
 Comparing them to the TY Hi-Z 32Ω​ (both with the included full foams):
 The bass is massive - might even be a bit much for my taste (but probably plays very well to your taste).
 Treble is brighter. Feels very clear, but I think this might be too bright for many (I rather like brighter earbuds, but at times this is pushing it even for me).
 They do have an instant wow effect, but as I keep listening I think perhaps there's a little too much in either end.
 Anyhow, this is just a first impression with the SeaHF being fresh out of the box - too early to conclude on anything, and of course, other people might have different impressions.


----------



## Saoshyant

kvad said:


> Just started listening to the SeaHF LD 4.0 32Ω.
> Comparing them to the TY Hi-Z 32Ω​ (both with the included full foams):
> The bass is massive - might even be a bit much for my taste (but probably plays very well to your taste).
> Treble is brighter. Feels very clear, but I think this might be too bright for many (I rather like brighter earbuds, but at times this is pushing it even for me).
> ...




Mind posting a link? Very well might have to try this out.


----------



## haiku

tomasz2d said:


> By the way Haiku, is Smart 2.0 320 Ohm still your number 1 in Seahf range? I think it was. And where was LD-3.0 320 Ohms placed?


 

 No, for everyday listening LD-3.0 320 Ohm is first now.


----------



## haiku

kvad said:


> Just started listening to the SeaHF LD 4.0 32Ω.
> Comparing them to the TY Hi-Z 32Ω​ (both with the included full foams):
> The bass is massive - might even be a bit much for my taste (but probably plays very well to your taste).
> Treble is brighter. Feels very clear, but I think this might be too bright for many (I rather like brighter earbuds, but at times this is pushing it even for me).
> ...


 

 Try the foams. You can tame bass and treble with them quite a bit.


----------



## kvad

saoshyant said:


> Mind posting a link? Very well might have to try this out.


 

 ​Got mine from HCK: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-New-Seahf-32-ohms-In-Ear-Earphone-Flat-Head-Plug-Earphone-Earplug-DIY-HIFI-Bass/32712869252.html (he had a promotion on tham at the time for less than their current price). I think there are a few more people who's waiting for them, so perhaps there might be a few more impressions in the coming week.
  


haiku said:


> Try the foams. You can tame bass and treble with them quite a bit.


 
  
 Already have full foams on them - just wanted to do a straight comparison against the TY Hi-Z. Tried double foams just now, but I feel that starts to muffle the sound a bit, while the highs can still be a bit sharp. Possible something like the VE thin foams might be better, but from what I've used so far foams have a tendency to boost bass and temper the treble. If one wants to ease off the bass and the treble at the same time, isn't that a bit of challenge?


----------



## kurtextrem

haiku said:


> No, for everyday listening LD-3.0 320 Ohm is first now.


 
 you don't have TY Hi-Z 320 Ohm, right? :/


----------



## vapman

kvad said:


> Just started listening to the SeaHF LD 4.0 32Ω.
> Comparing them to the TY Hi-Z 32Ω​ (both with the included full foams):
> The bass is massive - might even be a bit much for my taste (but probably plays very well to your taste).
> Treble is brighter. Feels very clear, but I think this might be too bright for many (I rather like brighter earbuds, but at times this is pushing it even for me).
> ...


 

 Cool, I ordered it last night. Excited!
  
 I  had always thought there is not really any difference between Seahf and TY Hi-Z, but the graph on the last page or 2 that shows the TY as having much stronger bass response makes me think if they really are all the same.


----------



## audio123

my tp16 is otw


----------



## vapman

Nobody has both LD-3.0 320 and LD-4.0 320 do they?


----------



## kvad

vapman said:


> Cool, I ordered it last night. Excited!
> 
> I  had always thought there is not really any difference between Seahf and TY Hi-Z, but the graph on the last page or 2 that shows the TY as having much stronger bass response makes me think if they really are all the same.


 
  
 Doesn't seem easy to make any system or sense out of those series : ) Did a very quick comparison to the LD3.0 400Ω​ - the sound signature is just wildly different, wouldn't have thought they were in the same "family". Both do have their strengths though. Missed Joy Boys early impressions of the 32Ω a few pages back, but reading it now I think we're hearing pretty much the same thing - just somewhat different levels of enthusiasm based on our personal preference.
  


springbay said:


> If you are talking abut the Hi-Z 150. I gave them some ear time along with the MusicMaker TP16 that arrived in the same shipment today. None of them impressed me. I guess they are decent given the 15€ price tag. I enjoyed the TP16 more than the Tomahawk, but neither the TP16 nor the Hi-Z 150 will get much more ear time. They just don't fill any gap in my previous collection.


 
  
 I know it's a tricky exercise since you like neither the TP16 nor the Tomahawk, but would you mind doing a quick comparison between them? I love my Tomahawks, and interested in the TP16 since I don't have a single earbud with a mic. Do they have a similar signature, or are they just something different?


----------



## vapman

@golov17
  
 How is your Remax RM305M?
  
 I used my Remax RM303 last night and was much happier with it than i remembered.
  
 I bought a RM305M in July but it never shipped, so I had to get my money back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 wondering if I should get it from a different seller or if it's nothing special.


----------



## kvad

.​.. and like that I also have a Mojito on the way.
 Finally went below my wallets pain limit: https://twitter.com/hckexin/status/772091783744360448


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> @golov17
> 
> 
> How is your Remax RM305M?
> ...


303 better than 305


----------



## vapman

kvad said:


> .​.. and like that I also have a Mojito on the way.
> Finally went below my wallets pain limit: https://twitter.com/hckexin/status/772091783744360448


 

 What's the mojito cost now? I guess i could grab it again if it's not too much...
  
  


golov17 said:


> 303 better than 305


 

 Good to know, thanks, glad I have two 303 then


----------



## kvad

vapman said:


> What's the mojito cost now? I guess i could grab it again if it's not too much...


 
  
 Down to USD 189.


----------



## golov17

kvad said:


> Down to USD 189.


OMG


----------



## Blueshound24

springbay said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone else got a good store for the Hi-Z 32's, which i totally missed the boat on, preferably someone who stocks Boardseman 98s and the TY/Hi-Z 320's?
> ...




I got my HI-Z 32 from BigBargainOnline via eBay USA. Initially the 3.5 plug had static and was cutting out but after aggressively wiping it with a coarse cloth it now works fine. Maybe it had some residue on it from manufacturing it, but I'm not sure.


----------



## Willber

blueshound24 said:


> Initially the 3.5 plug had static and was cutting out but after aggressively wiping it with a coarse cloth it now works fine.


 
  
 I've had that with a number of buds and IEMs, it has always been easily fixed as you've described.


----------



## vapman

I have some old OEM earbuds I want to open up so I can recable them but I can not figure out how to open it. (the stock cable is thin as heck and has a proprietary connector)
  
 I tried separating it with my thumbnails like the Monk, but no luck. Is there any other way earbuds are sealed shut?


----------



## springbay

vapman said:


> Nobody has both LD-3.0 320 and LD-4.0 320 do they?


 
  
 No since there are no LD-4.0 320 to my knowledge.
  


kvad said:


> I know it's a tricky exercise since you like neither the TP16 nor the Tomahawk, but would you mind doing a quick comparison between them? I love my Tomahawks, and interested in the TP16 since I don't have a single earbud with a mic. Do they have a similar signature, or are they just something different?


 
  
 Please understand that I'm no good with using the correct technical lingo for either wine, whisky or head gear. I know what i like and what I don't like, but I'll just use my own terms.
 The biggest problem with the Tomahawk is the fit. They can't stay positioned in my ears unless I put rubber rings and MP+ foams on them. That is the only combo I've succeeded with that is not too thick or too thin. With or without this fitment they are making the music I throw at them sound very artificial and distorted. And not in a pleasing way. The TP16 has the same generic shell as most other buds like the VE, Seahf, TY Hi-Z, FAAEAL, Boarseman and so on. This gives the TP16 the upper side to the Tomahawk and Ting., and was the main reason why I purchased them. I bought them to see if i could get a hint that alluring Tomahawk sound that some users in the forum are raving about. But what I heard from the TP16 was just anther easy to drive bud that falls into the same cloud as the Monk, Monk+, Boarseman K25s, QianYun Qian 25 or TY Hi-Z 32. In other words competent buds that don't bring anything new to the table if you already have one of them. So the TP16 don't fill any gap in my collection, and becomes redundant since I basically only use the Monk and the Monk+ from this cloud.


----------



## kvad

> Originally Posted by *springbay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ...
> But what I heard from the TP16 was just anther easy to drive bud that falls into the same cloud as the Monk, Monk+, Boarseman K25s, QianYun Qian 25 or TY Hi-Z 32. In other words competent buds that don't bring anything new to the table if you already have one of them. So the TP16 don't fill any gap in my collection, and becomes redundant since I basically only use the Monk and the Monk+ from this cloud.


 
  
 Thanks - that's very helpful. Have overloaded a bit on earbuds in that segment, so I'll give them a pass. A pity MusicMaker didn't manage to bring something different to the table.


----------



## gwompki

I'm getting ready to make my first purchase from Ali. Looks like seller hkcexin offers a 3usd coupon for purchases of 35usd or more. I have requested and received the coupon but don't know how to apply it to my purchase. I have decided to bite the bullet and buy Seahf ld 3.0 320. Thanks for suggestions.


----------



## vapman

gwompki said:


> I'm getting ready to make my first purchase from Ali. Looks like seller hkcexin offers a 3usd coupon for purchases of 35usd or more. I have requested and received the coupon but don't know how to apply it to my purchase. I have decided to bite the bullet and buy Seahf ld 3.0 320. Thanks for suggestions.


 

 Automatically applied when you are paying during checkout. You will see it. If you order with a mobile device you get an additional discount of about 10ish percent.


----------



## dearyon

Wow, MrZ MusicMaker/Toneking TY2 ranked above RX-1! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Wonder what is @ClieOS impression about them?


----------



## kinetic758

dearyon said:


> Wow, MrZ MusicMaker/Toneking TY2 ranked above RX-1!
> 
> Wonder what is @ClieOS
> impression about them?




Sounds promising. Mine should be here in a few days.


----------



## ld100

dearyon said:


> Wow, MrZ MusicMaker/Toneking TY2 ranked above RX-1!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 And below Rose. I was somewhat expecting them to be a Mojito slayer...


----------



## music4mhell

dearyon said:


> Wow, MrZ MusicMaker/Toneking TY2 ranked above RX-1!
> 
> Wonder what is @ClieOS
> impression about them?


Awesome, luckily mine is on the way.


----------



## kurtextrem

I'm glad that I have the Tomahawk so I can certainly skip that one because of the fit


----------



## Tomasz2D

dearyon said:


> Wow, MrZ MusicMaker/Toneking TY2 ranked above RX-1!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Interesting MX985 - this 2012 year old bud is still keeping so strong, although bullets whiz closer and closer each new year.


----------



## fairx

gwompki said:


> I'm getting ready to make my first purchase from Ali. Looks like seller hkcexin offers a 3usd coupon for purchases of 35usd or more. I have requested and received the coupon but don't know how to apply it to my purchase. I have decided to bite the bullet and buy Seahf ld 3.0 320. Thanks for suggestions.



Mee too. I'm using aliexpress app. Already in cart but the total don't change when I tick the item. Maybe I should pm them? I wonder anybody hit even better deal out of them. I have bought from easy store before maybe I could ask them for competitive price too?

Btw easy mention that ty 320 and seahf LD 320 are same when I enquire them before. Anybody thought so too? It's confusing 

Clieos rank the new musicmaker rather early. I wonder if he got them way before any of us who ordered? And I always wonder no mention of seahf  anywhere.. Not even any other bug guy 320? 

Maybe he just don't want to disrupt people expectations. Hmm...

Anyway. I spend my lazy afternoon listening to ty 32 with my o2. Very easy to listen. Mostly fatigue free. Wayy better amped with o2. Not so much with Q1. I like ty much more than monk+ amped / unamped. The more I listen the more I'm amazed with the value. Very good all rounder with no obvious peak anywhere.


----------



## Townyj

fairx said:


> Mee too. I'm using aliexpress app. Already in cart but the total don't change when I tick the item. Maybe I should pm them? I wonder anybody hit even better deal out of them. I have bought from easy store before maybe I could ask them for competitive price too?
> 
> Btw easy mention that ty 320 and seahf LD 320 are same when I enquire them before. Anybody thought so too? It's confusing




Coupons dont apply until the next page... when you select the items and hit next. There is two pages before the actual checkout/purchase page.


----------



## Willber

dearyon said:


> Wow, MrZ MusicMaker/Toneking TY2 ranked above RX-1!


 
 That's not difficult IMO, I'm not overly impressed with my RX-1.


----------



## kurtextrem

Any thoughts on Zen 2 vs TY Hi-Z 320 Ohm vs LD-3.0 320 Ohm? Zen 2 should be superior, right?


----------



## Saoshyant

willber said:


> That's not difficult IMO, I'm not overly impressed with my RX-1.


 
 To me, for it's cost, I think it's a rather talented earbud that even sounds decent on low end gear like a Sansa Clip+


----------



## Tomasz2D

@haiku @springbay
  
 Haiku, I have checked your older LD-3.0 320 impressions + remembering fresh ones by springbay + having brawling racoon in my house now, I gave up and ordered LD-3.0 320 (as few others members here I think).
  
 I remember what's springbay's audio chain but haiku - what's yours audio chain? Especially amp?
  
 This racoon - I think it unveils new face of higher impedance earbuds.


----------



## Willber

saoshyant said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > That's not difficult IMO, I'm not overly impressed with my RX-1.
> ...


 
 It's 4x more expensive than the Hi-Z 32 which I much prefer.


----------



## cqtek

Hello.

 I'm looking for earbuds with good and present bass for about 25$.
 Currently I have Pioneer SE-CE521-K, VE Monk+ and MRZ (Music Maker / Toneking) Tomahawk.
 I'm seeking something with more bass than VE Monk+ and Tomahawk.
 I have problems with adjusting the tomahawk in my ears, there are bigger for me and for that reason I can not enjoy their full potential.
 Monk+ sees fit me better, but SE-CE521-K have the perfect fit for me.
  
 I read a lot of and now I have only two candidates with more bass presence and better fit:
  
 Seahf 32 Ohms.
 T-Music.
  
  
 I am also looking for other models with microphone, in this case it interests me good fit, good quality and microphone position and strength:
  
 Edifier H186P.
 Xiaomi 1more.
 I hope your suggestions.
 Thanks in advance.
  
 CqTek


----------



## Saoshyant

@Willber Yes, but we're talking about taste and preference.  That's like arguing which pizza topping is the best.  It's kind of pointless in my book.  We all like different things.


----------



## Willber

saoshyant said:


> @Willber Yes, but we're talking about taste and preference.  That's like arguing which pizza topping is the best.  It's kind of pointless in my book.  We all like different things.


 
 I agree, and my first post was related to using the the ranking of the RX-1 in the OP as a means of assessing quality, and deciding what to buy because of it without taking into account many other variables. I gave a summary of my views using a number of criteria in an earlier post but they are just my opinions, obviously.
  
 ETA
 Here is the post: http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/9465#post_12827785


----------



## luedriver

cqtek said:


> I read a lot of and now I have only two candidates with more bass presence and better fit:
> 
> Seahf 32 Ohms.
> T-Music.


 
  
 idk if this helps but the t-music although has bass, is better with some sort of bass boost, as also mentioned by vapman,
  
 imho, when I watched a mockbuster with them and they had a lot of what I call "movie bass,"  (anyone that has seen any fast and furious movie will know what I mean)
  
 I can't compare them to the seahf yet, because I am still waiting for them,
  
 also imho they (t-music) respond better, to bass boost than others (monk, ty hi-z, tdk, sennheiser, rx-1)
  
 only philips she3800 can compare for bass, but those don't have the bass punch that the t-music have (again just my opinion, you mileage may vary)
  
 the philips seem to have (for me at least) more subbass or depth to the bass, when I compared them to the t-music with +10 bass on my stereo amp


----------



## Willber

> Originally Posted by *luedriver* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> the philips seem to have (for me at least) more subbass or depth to the bass, when I compared them to the t-music with +10 bass on my stereo amp


 
  
 That is the main reason I ordered the SHE3800, they should be here this week.


----------



## haiku

tomasz2d said:


> @haiku @springbay
> 
> Haiku, I have checked your older LD-3.0 320 impressions + remembering fresh ones by springbay + having brawling racoon in my house now, I gave up and ordered LD-3.0 320 (as few others members here I think).
> 
> ...


 

 I mainly listen with AK300 Dap + AK380 Amp + K´s earphones 500 Ohm.


----------



## luedriver

listening to various tracks on the shozy cygnus, I keep having to turn up the volume or turn down the volume depending on the track, haven't really paid much attention, but for bass or vocals I have to turn it down and anything that is brighter I have to turn the volume up
  
  
 not a flaw, just something I noticed


----------



## Fabi

Update on Sabia V2 after more burn-in
  
 Damn, plugged to RA Plus on HG, Sabia V2 rocks, it sounds more balanced now with
 deep and impactful bass, not boomy, not bleeding,
 wide soundstage, very good details, good extensions,
 vocals may be very very slightly recessed, not that noticeable at listening and upper midrange is still peaky, so it could be fatiguing for long sessions.
 But Sabia V2 is now a keeper until Saida V1 is released 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I think it has now replaced my original Monk, maybe I can send it to Crow Audio later 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Btw, I can finally enjoy the full potential of Monk+, plugged to RA Plus which is clean and transparent. Midrange is superb, soundstage is wide, lots of detail but unfortunately it still doesn't have the deeper bass I need.


----------



## Tomasz2D

Ostry KC08 vs. Ostry KC08T (does "T" mean "true"?)
  
 There have been some questions about differences between those two and this is my short comparison. I thought differences would be smaller then they are actually.
  
 The look.
 As you can see the boxes are little different with KC08 printed on one and KC08T on another one. Earbuds look almost the same - both bear just KC08 model name and the only difference is that KC08T has more shiny both plastic and metal parts.
  
 Sound.
 Here the real differences begin - with the biggest difference being soundstage presentation. Older KC08 has wide and big, surrounding and airy - the type of "you are in the music" soundstage while KC08T has narrower "music in front of you" soundstage. KC08 is v-shaped with recessed mids and KC08T is more balanced with pronounced mids. Both of them reveal a lot of details, although some details dissolve in more mellow and laid back sound of KC08. KC08T as more balanced reveal even more details than KC08.
  
 So which one to choose?
 For classical / orchestral, jazz I would go for KC08T with its more natural and faithful philharmonic "in front of you" presentation. This one is also better choise for analitical listening.
 For more "fun" and engaging experience older KC08 is the best choice. It has more relaxing presentation with more pleasent both female and male vocals. This one should be better choise for contemporary music including rock and with special emphasis for all electronica genres.
  
 Pictures - KC08 on left and KC08T on right


----------



## kinetic758

tomasz2d said:


> Ostry KC08 vs. Ostry KC08T (does "T" mean "true"?)
> 
> There have been some questions about differences between those two and this is my short comparison. I thought differences would be smaller then they are actually.
> 
> ...




Interesting. I have the KC08T and did not find them to be very balanced. The low end is bumped and slightly bloated. A fun earbud, for sure, but far from neutral (for me at least).

Thanks for the comparison. It was long overdue.


----------



## cqtek

luedriver said:


> idk if this helps but the t-music although has bass, is better with some sort of bass boost, as also mentioned by vapman,
> 
> imho, when I watched a mockbuster with them and they had a lot of what I call "movie bass,"  (anyone that has seen any fast and furious movie will know what I mean)
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you for your comments.


----------



## Tomasz2D

kinetic758 said:


> Interesting. I have the KC08T and did not find them to be very balanced. The low end is bumped and slightly bloated. A fun earbud, for sure, but far from neutral (for me at least).
> 
> Thanks for the comparison. It was long overdue.


 
 Well, I have not used "very balanced" phrase anywhere in my text but I have used "more balanced" (as in comparison to KC08). Moreover the word "fun" concerned KC08 and not KC08T.
  
 Anyway, how do you like your KC08T?


----------



## kinetic758

tomasz2d said:


> Well, I have not used "very balanced" phrase anywhere in my text but I have used "more balanced" (as in comparison to KC08). Moreover the word "fun" concerned KC08 and not KC08T.
> 
> Anyway, how do you like your KC08T?




I like them for what they are. Great for casual listening and probably the earbuds I will use for travel (they seem durable and the chord is nice). They remind me of a nicer version of apple earpods. 

Are you going to keep both? Interested in hearing the KC08.


----------



## gwompki

I am amazed at the effect of the hiegi donut foams on the RX1. Now even without external amp it's mostly great.

 I am realizing that me posting in real time as I experience new headphones and learn about their nuances is not helpful to the community. Going forward, I am going to hold off commenting until I have had adequate time with each test subject. My enthusiasm makes it difficult not to share


----------



## Nachash

Since my adventure with the Monks didn't went so well (package got lost, bought from veclan without tracking so no refund like with ali), I was planning to buy another earbuds for when it's too hot to use my headphones
 I was planning to buy the TY HIZ (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/TY-Hi-Z/32699557290.html) and the AUGLAMOUR RX-1 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/AUGLAMOUR-RX-1/32698700707.html). Anything that I should know about them before buying, like a better model? I don't want to go over $25 with earbuds
  
 Thanks


----------



## BloodyPenguin

My Budget Setup for Tonight:
  
*VE Monk Plus *& *xDuoo X2*.  They make a nice pair.
  

  
 --


----------



## kfarndog

bloodypenguin said:


> My Budget Setup for Tonight:
> 
> *VE Monk Plus *& *xDuoo X2*.  They make a nice pair.
> 
> ...


 
 Hummmm, guess I need to try that one...seem to have both of those items lying around...


----------



## Tomasz2D

kinetic758 said:


> Are you going to keep both? Interested in hearing the KC08.


 
  
 For the moment I keep them all  And if I would have to choose just one from these two I think it would be older KC08 really for these reasons:
 1. I find KC08 more engaging and universal for larger scope of musical genres.
 2. I cannot think of another bud that covers KC08 sound, wheras it would be easer to find KC08T alternative - the first that come up to my mind would be Creative Labs Aurvana Air (minus the bass of course)*.
  
 But both KC08 and KC08T are very nice, just so unexpectedly quite different.
  
 * and I think KC08T is still much better then Aurvana Air


----------



## Willber

nachash said:


> Since my adventure with the Monks didn't went so well (package got lost, bought from veclan without tracking so no refund like with ali), I was planning to buy another earbuds for when it's too hot to use my headphones
> I was planning to buy the TY HIZ (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/TY-Hi-Z/32699557290.html) and the AUGLAMOUR RX-1 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/AUGLAMOUR-RX-1/32698700707.html). Anything that I should know about them before buying, like a better model? I don't want to go over $25 with earbuds
> 
> Thanks


 

 A summary of my views on the RX-1, Hi-Z 32 and Monk+ can be found here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/9465#post_12827785
  
 Other views vary.


----------



## tommo21

I've also been listening to these three this morning, and I fully concur with your findings.
  
 I feel the HI-z 32 is the best all-rounder of these three. I prefer it to both of the other two for best total experience with almost any music. It's slightly small shortcoming is clarity in the treble region compared to RX-1. Also vocal are slightly better on the RX-1
  
 This is with Deezer Hi-Res music played through Schiit MB and Valhalla 2(on high gain)


----------



## vapman

Impatiently awaiting delivery of my TY Hi-Z 32. Its coming by singapore post so it'll be a while...  hoping & expecting it to live up to the hype!


----------



## ballog

tommo21 said:


> I've also been listening to these three this morning, and I fully concur with your findings.
> 
> I feel the HI-z 32 is the best all-rounder of these three. I prefer it to both of the other two for best total experience with almost any music. It's slightly small shortcoming is clarity in the treble region compared to RX-1. Also vocal are slightly better on the RX-1
> 
> This is with Deezer Hi-Res music played through Schiit MB and Valhalla 2(on high gain)


 
 So very true! Ty Hi-Z 32 is 'The' budget earbud to beat - not the Monk/Monk+ (plus they are cheaper when you include shipping for the Monk). Btw i have all of these : Edifier H180, Baldoor E100, Blox BE3 (had E2C), Aiwei ES10, Monk, Monk+, Musicmaker Tomahawk, Ty Hi-Z 32, Auglamour RX1.


----------



## fairx

ballog said:


> So very true! Ty Hi-Z 32 is 'The' budget earbud to beat - not the Monk/Monk+ (plus they are cheaper when you include shipping for the Monk). Btw i have all of these : Edifier H180, Baldoor E100, Blox BE3 (had E2C), Aiwei ES10, Monk, Monk+, Musicmaker Tomahawk, Ty Hi-Z 32, Auglamour RX1.


 
 yeah.. TY hi-z 32 been my recommendation to friends lately. it's also fast becoming my daily driver because fit is not an issue, another plus. if only I can tame the (slight - with some track) bright upper mids with different foam.. been rolling a few foam but still not found suitable enough.


----------



## golov17

fairx said:


> yeah.. TY hi-z 32 been my recommendation to friends lately. it's also fast becoming my daily driver because fit is not an issue, another plus. if only I can tame the (slight - with some track) bright upper mids with different foam.. been rolling a few foam but still not found suitable enough.


TY HP400S have more balanced sound sig, love it!


----------



## chompy

tomasz2d said:


> For the moment I keep them all  And if I would have to choose just one from these two I think it would be older KC08 really for these reasons:
> 1. I find KC08 more engaging and universal for larger scope of musical genres.
> 2. I cannot think of another bud that covers KC08 sound, wheras it would be easer to find KC08T alternative - the first that come up to my mind would be Creative Labs Aurvana Air (minus the bass of course)*.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Could you please compare KC08 and KC08T bass and treble (quantity, quality and extension) against Musicmaker Tomahawk? I know you don't like Tomahawks sound, but from a scientific point of view how would you rate these parameters?
  
 It would be interesting to know how is their fit and if Ostry are bigger or equal to Tomahawks...
  
 Thanks


----------



## luedriver

just saw on facebook post that there is now asura with balanced wires,


----------



## ballog

golov17 said:


> TY HP400S have more balanced sound sig, love it!


 
 I beleive we were discussing low impedance budget earbuds. Looking forward to try a high impedance bud though - VE Zen2 is out of question being too expensive - Golov I would love to read an impression of the TY HP400S (SeaHF range is too confusing).


----------



## Willber

I would like a comparison of the Hi-Z 32 and 150 if anyone on here has both.


----------



## golov17

ballog said:


> I beleive we were discussing low impedance budget earbuds. Looking forward to try a high impedance bud though - VE Zen2 is out of question being too expensive - Golov I would love to read an impression of the TY HP400S (SeaHF range is too confusing).


i like Seahf LD3.0 400, but TY 400s more better for my taste


----------



## dearyon

golov17 said:


> i like Seahf LD3.0 400, but TY 400s more better for my taste


 
 will you try Seahf LD4.0 400 ohm sir?
 I read on ELI that it have different signature than the rest of Seahf- said that it is not as bassy as the other Seahf range. Someone even said that it is a brighter alternative to Zen 1.


----------



## kurtextrem

Zen 2.0's price will go up at some point Lee said in the Facebook group. So not sure if I should buy Zen 2 or rather TY Hi-Z 320 / Seahf LD 4.0 / Seahf LD-3.0 320


----------



## Expansion

Can you post a link to a safe place to buy those bargain TY's that you are talking about? 
 I want to buy a pair.


----------



## golov17

dearyon said:


> will you try Seahf LD4.0 400 ohm sir?
> 
> I read on ELI that it have different signature than the rest of Seahf- said that it is not as bassy as the other Seahf range. Someone even said that it is a brighter alternative to Zen 1.


not tried LD4.0


----------



## audio123

my musicmaker tp16 just came. amazing earbud fresh out of the box. 10/10 recommendation


----------



## tommo21

willber said:


> I would like a comparison of the Hi-Z 32 and 150 if anyone on here has both.


 
  
 I have both. Listened to both a bit today, and as I mentioned earlier today in this thread the Ty 32 is probably the best all-rounder for me in the pricerange up to $20-25. The Ty 150 is even better I feel. Wider soundstage, clearer mids and treble(could still have more air and detail though) and deep thunderous bass. I'm not going for the 320ohm, but wil order the 400s soon. I'm waiting for Seahf LD3.0 320 ohm though.
  
 As I understand the 32ohm is sold out at the moment, and there will be a new batch soon with angled connector. I had trouble with connection on mine until I read here somewhere yesterday that the  connector(metalpart) had some sort of dirt/film on it. After I wiped it really clean today, no more connection problem.


----------



## audio123

short impressions: very musical, decent soundstage, AMAZING DETAILS


----------



## Willber

tommo21 said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > I would like a comparison of the Hi-Z 32 and 150 if anyone on here has both.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks tommo, that's what I was after. I was going to buy them but got the RX-1 instead after reading reviews on here. Oh well, my mistake, I shall try again soon, waiting for my SHE3800 now.
  
 It was me who suggested cleaning the connector BTW.


----------



## Willber

audio123 said:


> short impressions


 
 Of what?


----------



## tommo21

willber said:


> Thanks tommo, that's what I was after. I was going to buy them but got the RX-1 instead after reading reviews on here. Oh well, my mistake, I shall try again soon, waiting for my SHE3600 now.
> 
> It was me who suggested cleaning the connector BTW.


 

 Thanx for the tip...it worked wonders


----------



## Willber

tommo21 said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks tommo, that's what I was after. I was going to buy them but got the RX-1 instead after reading reviews on here. Oh well, my mistake, I shall try again soon, waiting for my SHE3600 now.
> ...


 
 You're welcome.


----------



## audio123

willber said:


> Of what?


 

 MusicMaker TP16


----------



## tintheman

Hi Golov, what do you think about the TY HP150?


----------



## golov17

tintheman said:


> Hi Golov, what do you think about the TY HP150?


 not have, only 32 & 400s


----------



## tintheman

No problem, thanks, but if anyone could compare the TY HP150 to the TY HP400S?


----------



## fairx

golov17 said:


> TY HP400S have more balanced sound sig, love it!




That what I suspect, it's an upgrade in price afterall.


----------



## jant71

audio123 said:


> short impressions: very musical, decent soundstage, AMAZING DETAILS


 

 How much bass? Less than Monk?? More than RX-1?? Of course if you could state the foams used. I think, going by pics on Penon site, the red are like Monk VE style and perhaps the black ones are a bit thinner?(correct me of course) Oh and since I have a Cowon could you take a quick listen through your and see that synergy and how it takes to the EQ? Thanks!


----------



## audio123

jant71 said:


> How much bass? Less than Monk?? More than RX-1?? Of course if you could state the foams used. I think, going by pics on Penon site, the red are like Monk VE style and perhaps the black ones are a bit thinner?(correct me of course) Oh and since I have a Cowon could you take a quick listen through your and see that synergy and how it takes to the EQ? Thanks!


i use ve donut for my earbuds to ensure consistent listening. With the Plenue D, it brought out the musicality of tp16. The vocals are more resolving than the original monk. Also, it has similar soundstage as rx1. Basically TP16 = Monk + RX1


----------



## damson

Anybody tried Musicmaker Toneking? Wondering how it would sound like..


----------



## ld100

damson said:


> Anybody tried Musicmaker Toneking? Wondering how it would sound like..




Few people ordered and waiting to receive em. Can't wait for reviews... I am very tempted to order them.


----------



## Tomasz2D

chompy said:


> Could you please compare KC08 and KC08T bass and treble (quantity, quality and extension) against Musicmaker Tomahawk? I know you don't like Tomahawks sound, but from a scientific point of view how would you rate these parameters?
> 
> It would be interesting to know how is their fit and if Ostry are bigger or equal to Tomahawks...


 
  
 Tomahawk has quite good and sort of exposed hi-hats and cymbals actually but in this field both Ostrys are also very good with more faithful cymbals and hi-hats sound but not so exposed as in Tomahawk. KC08 has softer hights than KC08T.
 KC08 is the bassiest with strongest and best bass drum sound and bass guitar sound. KC08T has tighter bass than KC08.
 The contrast beetwen any Ostry and Tomahawk can be seen most easy if you first listen to any of Ostry buds for some time and when you switch to Tomahawk you will immediately notice how boxy it sounds. 
 Fit is better with Ostry, Tomahawk are rather unstable in my ears.
 Ostry's diameter is 16,80 mm and Tomahawk diameter's is 16,90 mm.
 If you want I can write some more about bass/treble extentions but it would have to be based on one particular music track of your choice.


----------



## golov17

fairx said:


> That what I suspect, it's an upgrade in price afterall.


 maybe syndrome @ new toy, but I liked them right out of the box, though, I have to spend some time with them for an objective assessment, lol


----------



## notamethlab

Hey guys, I tried out many different earbuds and have found out that they are not for me. Too uncomfortable for me. I'm posting them up for sale, feel free to PM me if you are interested. 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/819347/various-earbuds


----------



## mochill

Try the Shozy Cygnus , ty hi-z hp400s


----------



## audio123

damson said:


> Anybody tried Musicmaker Toneking? Wondering how it would sound like..


incoming please be patient


----------



## mochill

, they need some good power to reach the full potential


----------



## ld100

mochill said:


> , they need some good power to reach the full potential


 
  
 Would be great if people would quote whatever they are replying to... Just saying... With this answers we have no idea what this refers to...


----------



## mochill

Obviously the post above


----------



## ld100

mochill said:


> Obviously the post above


 
  
 Post above yours is about Musicmaker Toneking. Then just above is Shozy Cygnus and hi-z hp400s... I have no idea what you refering to... I am sorry, but there are few different conversations going on at the same time and with posts with no direct indication what they refer to it is hard for me to follow. Maybe it is just me...


----------



## ngoshawk

ld100 said:


> Post above yours is about Musicmaker Toneking. Then just above is Shozy Cygnus and hi-z hp400s... I have no idea what you refering to... I am sorry, but there are few different conversations going on at the same time and with posts with no direct indication what they refer to it is hard for me to follow. Maybe it is just me...




It isn't just you. I have quit reading some threads I used to enjoy as a result...so to those above, please cite your response!


----------



## mochill

no problem, I'll quote next time


----------



## Townyj

audio123 said:


> short impressions: very musical, decent soundstage, AMAZING DETAILS




I agree... the TP16 are amazing for the price. Literally just plugged them in and bam! Details galore and such a musical sound. Out of all the earbuds ive bought so far these have actually made me go "Wow" i would put them above my RX1 easily. Im worried these will out do my Cygnus to be honest. Ugh.


----------



## music4mhell

townyj said:


> audio123 said:
> 
> 
> > short impressions: very musical, decent soundstage, AMAZING DETAILS
> ...


 
 I use my TP16 on the go with Oneplus one while driving.
 It's really good value for money.
 I will rank it above Monk+.


----------



## Nachash

So the TP16 are better than the RX1?
 I don't know what to buy


----------



## Townyj

music4mhell said:


> I use my TP16 on the go with Oneplus one while driving.
> It's really good value for money.
> I will rank it above Monk+.




Id rank it above the monk+ easily. Had to use others often to adjust to the sound. These in no way at all, straight up awesome.


----------



## music4mhell

nachash said:


> So the TP16 are better than the RX1?
> I don't know what to buy


 
 Personally i will Rank RX-1 above TP16.
 RX-1 is more neutral and musical, where as TP16 is a bit colored, that means a lit more forward Lows, Mids and Highs but with FUN element


----------



## Townyj

music4mhell said:


> Personally i will Rank RX-1 above TP16.
> RX-1 is more neutral and musical, where as TP16 is a bit colored, that means a lit more forward Lows, Mids and Highs but with FUN element




The fit alone on the TP16 puts it above the RX1 for me. Definitely a fun sounding earbud, all rounder which is exactly what i wanted. Thrown all types of music at it so far, hasnt let me down.


----------



## Nachash

What about the Seahf LD-3.0 (the 150ohm one)?


----------



## kurtextrem

Seaf LD-3.0 150Ohm has a (for my ears) good bass and deep sound(stage) (which I don't really like)


----------



## luedriver

I kinda feel like each earbud should have its own thread to post impressions on, for the overlapping questions on the same earbuds that might be hard to look up in a thread that has over 9600 posts
  
 I know shozy cygnus has a thread, maybe there should be a ty/seahf thread if there isn't one already


----------



## kurtextrem

Yeah I think a thread for TY and Seahf combined would be great. We have a lot of posts (and hidden gems so to say) about those in here. Someone else had the idea too a few weeks back... but no one has created one


----------



## audio123

TY HI-Z HP-32 is updated with a right angled jack as shown in penon audio store
 http://penonaudio.com/Earphones/earbuds/TY-Hi-Z-HP-32
 i will be getting one to see if there is any difference from the 1st version.


----------



## skremble

I'm looking for a fun, not sibilant, punchy but not boomy bass, forgiving buds.
Listen mainly to pop, rock, edm, from a HTC 10 unamped

Appreciate some thoughts/comparison on TP16,TMusic, TY hi-z 32, edifier h180 (don't need compare everything, but at least 2 will be good)

Open to other suggestions too
Thanks in advance!


----------



## music4mhell

skremble said:


> I'm looking for a fun, not sibilant, punchy but not boomy bass, forgiving buds.
> Listen mainly to pop, rock, edm, from a HTC 10 unamped
> 
> Appreciate some thoughts/comparison on TP16,TMusic, TY hi-z 32, edifier h180 (don't need compare everything, but at least 2 will be good)
> ...


 
 RX-1.


----------



## Fabi

Here comes 2 new challengers

Let it burn in


----------



## AudioNewbi3

A very sad day for me, just noticed that my Cynus (which I have bought from Penon) has developed severe channel imbalance issues. The right driver would play music at significantly lower volume levels as compared to the left driver.

 At first I thought that it was purely the problem with my cheap DAP, but using it with the X3 and B4 today, I noticed the same problem (almost scared me ****less as I thought I was going death on the right ear). But after cross referencing it with my SeaHF, the problem was clear.
  
 Bought it March of this year, hope that it is still under warranty.
 Really ashame that this had to happen. Prior to the problem, I did not yank the cable of the Cygnus nor did I play it at excessively high or high volume.......bloody hell.....what a bummer


----------



## Saoshyant

Perhaps you can use this as opportunity to try a Cygnus alternative.  While it is quite unfortunate, maybe some good can come of it.


----------



## Townyj

Awwww man that sucks!!


----------



## gwompki

For anyone who was curious about the differences between TY Hi Z 320ohm vs Seahf LD3.0 320ohm, I contacted Penon to see if I could get clarification. I was told they are identical, just different brand names. Interesting.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

saoshyant said:


> Perhaps you can use this as opportunity to try a Cygnus alternative.  While it is quite unfortunate, maybe some good can come of it.


 
  
 If Penon decides to reimburse me then yes I will. But if that is not the case, this maybe a "write off" case and I may not have the funds required to buy another Cygnus. 


townyj said:


> Awwww man that sucks!!


 
 Yes.....yes indeed.


----------



## audio123

I really like the 1st version of ty hiz hp32. Its really worth for the $ and then MusicMaker TP16 comes which is more expensive. TP16 sounds great out of the box already. Out of HP32, RX1, TP16,
Based on performance, I would pick TP16.
Based on price, HP32 but I have not received the 2nd version of HP32 so cannot conclude definitely.


----------



## kinetic758

audionewbi3 said:


> If Penon decides to reimburse me then yes I will. But if that is not the case, this maybe a "write off" case and I may not have the funds required to buy another Cygnus.
> Yes.....yes indeed.




Not sure if they will reimburse you, but from what I recall, they warranty all of the products they sell for one year. So you should be able to get a replacement pair at the very least. Let us know how it goes and good luck!


----------



## kurtextrem

gwompki said:


> For anyone who was curious about the differences between TY Hi Z 320ohm vs Seahf LD3.0 320ohm, I contacted Penon to see if I could get clarification. I was told they are identical, just different brand names. Interesting.


 
 Wait *what*?


----------



## Willber

For those interested mainly in budget earbuds (~$5) there is a thread for impressions, comparisons, etc (link below). I have just received my SHE3800 and OOTB I am very impressed. I shall use them for a few days and then post a comparison with Monk+ and Hi-Z 32 on there:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds


----------



## Tomasz2D

joy boy said:


> And the last bud i try and shivering me down: Raid Bud by Laki audio.
> Very great performance for a $20 earbud


 
  
 Thanks for the tip about Raid Bud Joy Boy but did anybody try to contact them for price quote already ? I did and so far the situation is similar like with Heavenly Sounds or at least from Heavenly Sounds I have seen straight "no" and with Laki Raid the communication simply stopped. I have impresion that they all are rather surprised that somebody from abroad wants something from them.


----------



## vapman

willber said:


> For those interested mainly in budget earbuds (~$5) there is a thread for impressions, comparisons, etc (link below). I have just received my SHE3800 and OOTB I am very impressed. I shall use them for a few days and then post a comparison with Monk+ and Hi-Z 32 on there:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds


 

 Probably a good thread to have started, good stuff. I love the enthusiam and market for budgets buds that are actually worth listening to - starting a trend of who can make the best $5 earbud  is possibly the greatest thing VE could have done with the Monk IMO. how could it be better, maybe if it was $2 or $3...


----------



## Willber

vapman said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > For those interested mainly in budget earbuds (~$5) there is a thread for impressions, comparisons, etc (link below). I have just received my SHE3800 and OOTB I am very impressed. I shall use them for a few days and then post a comparison with Monk+ and Hi-Z 32 on there:
> ...


 
 It was started a couple of months ago but I thought it was worth bringing attention to.


----------



## fairx

Haha now we need bug guy thread!


----------



## Saoshyant

Just ordered the new Hi-Z 32 & Musicmaker TP16.  I'm hoping I enjoy them.  Also, at some point I should break down and order a Seahf earbud soon.


----------



## gwompki

kurtextrem said:


> Wait *what*?


 
 haha yup...this is what they said:
  
 "Dear friend,

Thank you for your email.

TY HI Z 320ohm and the Seahf 320ohm are the same product,but their brand is different.

If you have any futher questions,please let us know.
Have a nice day"


----------



## audio123

saoshyant said:


> Just ordered the new Hi-Z 32 & Musicmaker TP16.  I'm hoping I enjoy them.  Also, at some point I should break down and order a Seahf earbud soon.


 

 u wont be disappointed with the tp16. ordered from penon audio too?


----------



## Saoshyant

Yep, that I did.


----------



## audio123

saoshyant said:


> Yep, that I did.


 

 nice. their service is top notch imo.


----------



## vapman

@audio123 do you have it yet? would love to see a pic of someones.


----------



## audio123

vapman said:


> @audio123 do you have it yet? would love to see a pic of someones.


 

 r u referring to the tp16?


----------



## vapman

audio123 said:


> r u referring to the tp16?


 

 yeah, sorry. I don't think i've seen anyone post a pic of their and was hoping to see a real pic of it, not a store pic.


----------



## audio123

vapman said:


> yeah, sorry. I don't think i've seen anyone post a pic of their and was hoping to see a real pic of it, not a store pic.


 

 uploading in progress, plswait


----------



## Saoshyant

My only order from Penon was 2 years back with the ES100, with it's substandard quality control, which lead to my only Penon order taking about 1.5 months. While not their fault, it did leave a negative impression. Was never quite happy that due to the issue, I had to wait longer and pay more.


----------



## audio123

musicmaker tp16. outstanding earbud imo.


----------



## vapman

audio123 said:


> musicmaker tp16. outstanding earbud imo.


 
 ... is it a mx500 shell? or just looks like one?
 from store pics i thought it would be custom shell :O
  
 thanks for posting the pic.


----------



## audio123

vapman said:


> ... is it a mx500 shell? or just looks like one?
> from store pics i thought it would be custom shell :O
> 
> thanks for posting the pic.


 

 im unsure of the shell but i can guarantee sound is good.
 no harm trying one out yourself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 http://penonaudio.com/Earphones/earbuds/MusicMaker-TP16


----------



## Townyj

saoshyant said:


> Just ordered the new Hi-Z 32 & Musicmaker TP16.  I'm hoping I enjoy them.  Also, at some point I should break down and order a Seahf earbud soon.




You will enjoy the TP16, i know i have new toy syndrome. But damn its a good sounding bud!  Penon are awesome to deal with.. my go to always now. Requested earbuds to be stocked and they are up a day or few days later.

Currently waiting for my Red De'mun to arrive and Sabia V2. Should be ordering a Heavenly Sounds Cadenza once shipping is sorted.


----------



## audio123

townyj said:


> You will enjoy the TP16, i know i have new toy syndrome. But damn its a good sounding bud!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 its so good that i am considering a 2nd pair of TP16.
 well penon is reputable hence they have loyal customers like us.


----------



## kurtextrem

gwompki said:


> haha yup...this is what they said:
> 
> "Dear friend,
> 
> ...


 
 Can you ask them if the sound signature is different?


----------



## Townyj

audio123 said:


> its so good that i am considering a 2nd pair of TP16.
> well penon is reputable hence they have loyal customers like us.




Its crossed my mind already hahah. Wouldnt mind stocking a few pairs, spare and maybe a xmas gift or two  ive spoken to them on Aliexpress and email, definitely loyal to them. Fast shipping, no dramas, great communication. Cant beat it really.


----------



## audio123

townyj said:


> Its crossed my mind already hahah. Wouldnt mind stocking a few pairs, spare and maybe a xmas gift or two
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 haha yes get it before it becomes popular and price increases which happens with the auglamour rx1!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> yeah, sorry. I don't think i've seen anyone post a pic of their and was hoping to see a real pic of it, not a store pic.


 
  
 Here are a set of my pictures I took of the MusicMaker/Toneking TP16.  I posted them up a little while back in this thread:
  
 https://www.facebook.com/JustinMinerPhotography/posts/1835492750006114
  
 --


----------



## MRK1

music4mhell said:


> I use my TP16 on the go with Oneplus one while driving.
> It's really good value for money.
> I will rank it above Monk+.




Can you even drive with headphones? In my country they can fine you if you're not using a hands-free headset that leaves one ear open.


----------



## chompy

tomasz2d said:


> Tomahawk has quite good and sort of exposed hi-hats and cymbals actually but in this field both Ostrys are also very good with more faithful cymbals and hi-hats sound but not so exposed as in Tomahawk. KC08 has softer hights than KC08T.
> KC08 is the bassiest with strongest and best bass drum sound and bass guitar sound. KC08T has tighter bass than KC08.
> The contrast beetwen any Ostry and Tomahawk can be seen most easy if you first listen to any of Ostry buds for some time and when you switch to Tomahawk you will immediately notice how boxy it sounds.
> Fit is better with Ostry, Tomahawk are rather unstable in my ears.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for you detailed explanation!!
  
 I must admit that I have a very particular sound tastes and I always equalize my devices giving a nice bust to bass and treble in order to get a great V shaped sound: I love deep hard hiting bass and sparkling highs that someone could feel painfull.
  
 If I had to choose a track that represents the kind of music I most listen nowadays, mostly Pop and Trance, so nothing excepcionally demanding, this is a good example (Uplifting Trance): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad_eViMKuF8
  
 But when I was youger I prefered harder styles, that I still listen from time to time, as this Hardcore track (if you find this too "difficult" to listen, then your experience with the first track is enough, although it would be nice to know how well Ostrys keep pace with fastest beats): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9Pb5S4qakY


----------



## Frederick Wang

i got a seahf 400ohm, not sure what model it is, i ordered it directly from bug guy. It is severely underpowered by aune b1, the only amp i currently have. So i wont make any assessment now. I previously owned seahf 320ohm and a 400ohm distributed by headphone association, driven by ican se and hm901 balanced card, they were among some of the best earbuds i ever heared, but tend to be warm sounding


----------



## Tomasz2D

bloodypenguin said:


> Here are a set of my pictures I took of the MusicMaker/Toneking TP16.  I posted them up a little while back in this thread:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/JustinMinerPhotography/posts/1835492750006114


 
  
 Wow, it looks like you've got much better pair than audio123


----------



## sharkz

Vapman, I know you were waiting on your Edimuns, did they ever arrive? Kind of curious how they stack up to the Red De'Mun. I think one of them might be my next purchase.


----------



## boblauer

tomasz2d said:


> Wow, it looks like you've got much better pair than audio123


 
 Mine arrive today and I'll post up some pics but no where near the photo skills of BP and only using my G5. From there it's burn in time for a few nights until serious listening this weekend, or as the wifey calls it serious ignoring her.


----------



## Tomasz2D

frederick wang said:


> i got a seahf 400ohm, not sure what model it is, i ordered it directly from bug guy.


 
 And how do you order directly from bug guy? Any link for the record?


----------



## robervaul

bloodypenguin said:


> Here are a set of my pictures I took of the MusicMaker/Toneking TP16.  I posted them up a little while back in this thread:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/JustinMinerPhotography/posts/1835492750006114
> 
> --


 

 Wow. Nice pics. 50mm 1.2 ?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

robervaul said:


> Wow. Nice pics. 50mm 1.2 ?


 

 --


----------



## kvad

bloodypenguin said:


> Here are a set of my pictures I took of the MusicMaker/Toneking TP16.  I posted them up a little while back in this thread:
> https://www.facebook.com/JustinMinerPhotography/posts/1835492750006114


 
  
 You've really been ramping up your photography skills! Have the feeling they look better in your pictures than reality : )
 I might have missed it, but have you given any impressions of them? Wondering how you feel about them compared to the Tomahawk.


----------



## robervaul

bloodypenguin said:


> --


 

 haha.nevertheless I suspect it's a Canon.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

kvad said:


> You've really been ramping up your photography skills! Have the feeling they look better in your pictures than reality : )
> I might have missed it, but have you given any impressions of them? Wondering how you feel about them compared to the Tomahawk.


 
  
 Thank you for the kind words about my photography.  I do feel like I have improved over time.  I'm getting a better feel for what seems to work best.

 As for impressions, I am holding off slightly as I have the TY HI-Z HP-32 coming soon (actually out for delivery as I type this).  I want to compare a few of them together.
  
  


robervaul said:


> haha.nevertheless I suspect it's a Canon.


 
  
 Actually, I just use an old Panasonic GH1 (not the GH1K).  I got it a bunch of years back for a big discount.  
  
 I used a PANASONIC LUMIX G Vario Lens (45-200mm, F4.0-5.6) for the MusicMaker/Toneking TP16 shoot.  
  
 --


----------



## kvad

bloodypenguin said:


> As for impressions, I am holding off slightly as I have the TY HI-Z HP-32 coming soon (actually out for delivery as I type this).  I want to compare a few of them together.


 
  
 A round-up sounds good - look forward to your impressions!


----------



## Tomasz2D

chompy said:


> I must admit that I have a very particular sound tastes and I always equalize my devices giving a nice bust to bass and treble in order to get a great V shaped sound: I love deep hard hiting bass and sparkling highs that someone could feel painfull.


 
  
 Woohoo what a ride! Both Ostrys sound good with these recordings - but KC08 - stronger bass - vocal more recessed - KC08T - more balanced. But keep in mind both Ostrys have much softer both bass and treble than Tomahawk and with your tracks bass is kind of subwoofer-like soft.
 But you may also try Elibuds Sabia v2 (about $15 shipped) - it sounds really good with your tracks.


----------



## kurtextrem

I'd say the next person which posts about TY HiZ or SeaHF has to open a thread about those


----------



## Willber

kurtextrem said:


> I'd say the next person which posts about TY HiZ or SeaHF has to open a thread about those


 

 I hope those who write about Hi-Z 32 or other cheapies (<$10) will also post in this thread:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds


----------



## Willber

> Originally Posted by *chompy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I must admit that I have a very particular sound tastes and I always equalize my devices giving a nice bust to bass and treble in order to get a great V shaped sound: I love deep hard hiting bass and sparkling highs that someone could feel painfull.
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you want to test your buds for bass I recommend the linked track below. It has a wide range of frequencies but the really low stuff starts at about 50s:
  
 https://youtu.be/ojSj70KGpac


----------



## Frederick Wang

I chatted with him through taobao app, asked him to send me one of his latest product, which is not listed in his shop.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

willber said:


> I hope those who write about Hi-Z 32 or other cheapies (<$10) will also post in this thread:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds


 
  
 While I am a HUGE fan of budget earbuds, I just like having all the news and thoughts in this one thread.  Makes it easier for me to keep up to date.

 That said, I also do understand members wanting to focus on a set price range of earbuds.


----------



## Willber

bloodypenguin said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > I hope those who write about Hi-Z 32 or other cheapies (<$10) will also post in this thread:
> ...


 
  
 I shall continue to post in both threads, I don't think there's a problem if there is some duplication. But a budget area is useful for many people IMO, especially newbies. This thread is so wide-ranging it can be a bit daunting at first.


----------



## Tomasz2D

frederick wang said:


> I chatted with him through taobao app, asked him to send me one of his latest product, which is not listed in his shop.




Link to his Taobao shop pls.


----------



## kurtextrem

frederick wang said:


> I chatted with him through taobao app, asked him to send me one of his latest product, which is not listed in his shop.


 
 what is it?


----------



## vapman

willber said:


> If you want to test your buds for bass I recommend the linked track below. It has a wide range of frequencies but the really low stuff starts at about 50s:
> 
> https://youtu.be/ojSj70KGpac





This is what I use.


TY/SeaHf 400 owners, have fun!


----------



## chompy

tomasz2d said:


> Woohoo what a ride! Both Ostrys sound good with these recordings - but KC08 - stronger bass - vocal more recessed - KC08T - more balanced. But keep in mind both Ostrys have much softer both bass and treble than Tomahawk and with your tracks bass is kind of subwoofer-like soft.
> But you may also try Elibuds Sabia v2 (about $15 shipped) - it sounds really good with your tracks.


 
  
 Lots of thanks again, then it seems I'll keep for a while my Tomahawks as I thought that KC08 / KC08T could be an improvement with my music, but it seems that I was wrong. Sabia v2 sounds interesting, but I see they use the same shells as VE Monks and they hurt my ears after some time.
  


willber said:


> If you want to test your buds for bass I recommend the linked track below. It has a wide range of frequencies but the really low stuff starts at about 50s:
> 
> https://youtu.be/ojSj70KGpac


 
  
 Thanks, my intention was not only testing bass (I've also used tracks like this and similar to what vapman has post), I like bass but also love treble, and as you could see in my links in a much faster way, and taking advantage of Tomasz2D having my current favourite buds and the ones I was interested in, he kindly tested them with the music I usually hear.


----------



## Frederick Wang

tomasz2d said:


> Link to his Taobao shop pls.


 
 https://ibetterearphone.taobao.com/shop/view_shop.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.pmMjbJ&user_number_id=24933564


----------



## Frederick Wang

kurtextrem said:


> what is it?


 
 Just search Taobao in app store


----------



## Fabi

Here is some impressions on Seahf 32 and Toneking TP16 with a day of burn-in. They sound already good OOTB. I put thin foams on it (always) and plugged them straight to dap.


I find Seahf 32 very similar to Sabia V2, slightly V shaped sound, very good level of details, a good soundstage size above average, slightly recessed mids and treble that may pierce ears sometimes.
Sabia V2 has more burn-in time and has fantastic deep impact bass but I find them both have very similar signature. We'll see after more burn-in.

Now Toneking TP16 has a balanced, neutral and laidback sound, a higher level of details and separation, a wider soundstage than other earbuds, a beautiful cable to look at and to touch WoW. It looks very good and every genre sounds good with it.
It may sound a little flatter for those who like some coloration in their earphones. It also depends on what you pair it with.

I'll let them burn-in more time before making my final opinion (to sell or not to sell).


IMHO TP16 competes with TY 32 for best all rounder in sub $15 easy to drive earbuds, depending on personal preference.
TY 32 is still my favorite with its very large and coherent soundstage, fantastic mids, natural tone, so accurate in emotions, althrough not perfect of course for me in bass quantity and smooth treble.
According to my preferences, maybe I should just buy TY HP400s for personal end game and stop buying earbuds hahaha.
Btw, I may buy a second pair of TY 32 with L plug cause it's better for me on the go.


TianYù rocks for me. It captures my heart and my wallet.


----------



## kinetic758

Should be getting my MusicMaker Dual Drivers today.  Although I'm currently suffering from an ear infection, so not sure how much listening I'll be doing.  Will post impressions if I do.


----------



## kinetic758

Haven't listened to them yet.  They're lighter (in weight) then I thought they would be.  Getting the foams on these was more annoying than usual.


----------



## mxroadie

kinetic758 said:


> Haven't listened to them yet.  They're lighter (in weight) then I thought they would be.  Getting the foams on these was more annoying than usual.


 
  
 They look lovely, one of the best looking earbuds around. Got a brief impression of the sound signature?


----------



## ld100

kinetic758 said:


> Haven't listened to them yet.  They're lighter (in weight) then I thought they would be.  Getting the foams on these was more annoying than usual.


 
  
 So what's the scoop?


----------



## kinetic758

mxroadie said:


> They look lovely, one of the best looking earbuds around. Got a brief impression of the sound signature?






ld100 said:


> So what's the scoop?




Given I have an ear infection (which means slightly muffled hearing in one ear), I would take these initial impressions with a grain of salt. These buds sound detailed, highs sound a little grainy (reminds me of RX1), imaging is excellent, soundstage is deep (though not as wide as something like a Mojito), mids more forward than Mojito though still neutral IMO, bass is rather light (definitely lighter than Mojito - perhaps similar to RX1 but I haven't listened to those in a while), delineation of instruments is good though not as well defined or spread as wide as Mojito, highs are smooth though not as elevated nor extended as Mojito. 

Overall, these sound neutral, smooth and detailed with a subdued low end and deep soundstage. I'm assuming they will only get better with some break in (like my Tings). Not for bassheads (I used Monk+ thin foams).


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I received the *TY Hi-Z 32ohm* tonight.  This is the first gen with the straight plug.
  
 I took some pictures and had a quick listen.  Tough earbud with a surprisingly good sound. 
 Burning them in a bit more before my finally thoughts and comparisons with others in this price range.
  
  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  
 --


----------



## mxroadie

kinetic758 said:


> Given I have an ear infection (which means slightly muffled hearing in one ear), I would take these initial impressions with a grain of salt. These buds sound detailed, highs sound a little grainy (reminds me of RX1), imaging is excellent, soundstage is deep (though not as wide as something like a Mojito), mids more forward than Mojito though still neutral IMO, bass is rather light (definitely lighter than Mojito - perhaps similar to RX1 but I haven't listened to those in a while), delineation of instruments is good though not as well defined or spread as wide as Mojito, highs are smooth though not as elevated nor extended as Mojito.
> 
> Overall, these sound neutral, smooth and detailed with a subdued low end and deep soundstage. I'm assuming they will only get better with some break in (like my Tings). Not for bassheads (I used Monk+ thin foams).


 
  
 Thanks for stuffing your ears despite that infection 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 How's the size and fit, compared to say, Monk? Sounds like a baby Mojito! Would you say that the mids are "shouty" if forward? And with regards to the treble, it's not as extended as the Mojito but not rolled off either, right?
  
 At less than half the price of the Mojito and a handsome construction, I'm sold!


----------



## Tomasz2D

frederick wang said:


> https://ibetterearphone.taobao.com/shop/view_shop.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.pmMjbJ&user_number_id=24933564


 
 OK, so this is the store where I bought most of my Seahf buds but I didn't know that in fact Seahf = bug guy. I thought Seahf is some sort of middleman trade company that buy from bug guy. So Seahf is in fact bug guy's tradename, right?


----------



## Nachash

mxroadie said:


> Thanks for stuffing your ears despite that infection
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Which earbuds are those?


----------



## fairx

gwompki said:


> haha yup...this is what they said:
> 
> "Dear friend,
> 
> ...


 
 EE on Aliexpress also told me the same..


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tomasz2d said:


> OK, so this is the store where I bought most of my Seahf buds but I didn't know that in fact Seahf = bug guy. I thought Seahf is some sort of middleman trade company that buy from bug guy. So Seahf is in fact bug guy's tradename, right?


 
 Yep


----------



## fairx

I wonder if most 32 ohm earbud right now are bug guy's, even the Toneking TP16?


----------



## teston

fairx said:


> I wonder if most 32 ohm earbud right now are bug guy's, even the Toneking TP16?



Who is this bug guy you are talking about? I saw some guy talk about him but had no idea.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

teston said:


> Who is this bug guy you are talking about? I saw some guy talk about him but had no idea.


 
 Bug Guy = Creator of SeaHF = Maker of OEM drivers for Ty Hi-z and a number of other brands (mostly high impedance, assumption) = Was once the driver maker for Zen 1, Monk, Asura 1


----------



## music4mhell

audionewbi3 said:


> teston said:
> 
> 
> > Who is this bug guy you are talking about? I saw some guy talk about him but had no idea.
> ...


 
 Is he on Aliexpress ?


----------



## audio123

Whoever that guy is, he is a genius in making earbuds...


----------



## audio123

MusicMaker TP16 is officially my favourite earbud.


----------



## music4mhell

audio123 said:


> MusicMaker TP16 is officially my favourite earbud.


 
 Above Zen 2 even ? :O


----------



## teston

audionewbi3 said:


> Bug Guy = Creator of SeaHF = Maker of OEM drivers for Ty Hi-z and a number of other brands (mostly high impedance, assumption) = Was once the driver maker for Zen 1, Monk, Asura 1


 
 Thanks. Now that i'm clear about it


----------



## 93EXCivic

I need some suggestions on foams. I got in my Monk+ the other day and with foams they fit pretty well but the foam bothers the heck out of my ears. It seems really itchy.
  
 Anyone else have this problem? Any suggestions for other foams to use instead? Or some other solution?
  
 I have some foams on the way with my Ty Hi-Z 32 ohm from a seller who cannot be named.


----------



## music4mhell

93excivic said:


> I need some suggestions on foams. I got in my Monk+ the other day and with foams they fit pretty well but the foam bothers the heck out of my ears. It seems really itchy.
> 
> Anyone else have this problem? Any suggestions for other foams to use instead? Or some other solution?
> 
> I have some foams on the way with my Ty Hi-Z 32 ohm from a seller who cannot be named.


 
 I felt the same initially.
  
 After some days, with friction the foam becomes more smooth and comfortable.
 I can suggest that you give some time.


----------



## audio123

music4mhell said:


> Above Zen 2 even ? :O


 

 sadly yes lol when out of the same source. i understand zen 2 needs to be driven


----------



## music4mhell

audio123 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Above Zen 2 even ? :O
> ...


 
 We are different then  Very different, lol !


----------



## audio123

music4mhell said:


> We are different then  Very different, lol !


 

 our desired sound


----------



## Willber

93excivic said:


> I need some suggestions on foams. I got in my Monk+ the other day and with foams they fit pretty well but the foam bothers the heck out of my ears. It seems really itchy.
> 
> Anyone else have this problem? Any suggestions for other foams to use instead? Or some other solution?
> 
> I have some foams on the way with my Ty Hi-Z 32 ohm from a seller who cannot be named.


 
  
 The Hi-Z foams are not as thick and fluffy as the Monk+ ones but 'denser' (IYKWIM) and smoother*. You might find them more comfortable.
  
 *Edit - As are the SHE3800 ones.


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, my balanced adapters from VE just arrived, so my first move was to grab my 2.5mm Monk+ and plug them into my Hifiman HM700.  First thing I notice, which I'm quite happy about, is that there's pretty much no discernible hiss.  For balanced IEMs for the HM700, I own the RE-600, RE400, RE-262 & RE-Zero, all of which have varying levels of hiss issues with the HM700.  Based off a quick comparison to the normal Monk+ using the obnoxious grounding adapter for the HM700, it's a really pleasant sounding earbud, which is easily driven at roughly 50% volume on this dap.  Details are a little higher, vocal clarity up a little bit too.  All in all, whatever balanced solution I pick, whether it's a balanced dap, or a new phone and a balanced dac/amp, I'm happy to have this earbud to enjoy alongside it.


----------



## kinetic758

mxroadie said:


> Thanks for stuffing your ears despite that infection
> 
> How's the size and fit, compared to say, Monk? Sounds like a baby Mojito! Would you say that the mids are "shouty" if forward? And with regards to the treble, it's not as extended as the Mojito but not rolled off either, right?
> 
> At less than half the price of the Mojito and a handsome construction, I'm sold!




Construction is solid. I would say size is slightly bigger than Monk so those with smaller ears may have issues. I wouldn't say mids are shouty at all, maybe every so slightly forward if not neutral (mids on Mojito are recessed to begin with). 

Don't want to comment too much on the treble without doing more listening (with healthy ears), but my initial impression was that it was not prematurely rolled off compared to a Monk, RX1 or ting etc. It's just that Mojito has such an extended and "hot" treble that comparing the two would make you think the TY2 is rolled off. 




nachash said:


> Which earbuds are those?




MusicMaker TY2


----------



## BloodyPenguin

T-Music has a new earbud.

 From the looks of it, the design is VERY familiar to a lot of other DIY ones floating around Aliexpress and Taobao.  
  
 I will be getting a pair and I can let you all know how it is.  Unfortunately I can not compare it to the first DIY T-Music earbud as I destroyed mine by mistake shortly after my photo shoot of it.

 Here it is for those interested:  http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-Version2-Hifi-T-Music-DIY-Earphone-3-5mm-In-Ear-Headset-with-microphone/1497284_32728603685.html


  
 --


----------



## vapman

@BloodyPenguin do you want my T-Music? I don't ever use it, unless I can't find my Remaxes before going to play video games...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> @BloodyPenguin do you want my T-Music? I don't ever use it, unless I can't find my Remaxes before going to play video games...


 
  
 If you don't want your T-Music, I'd love a replacement.  Let me know, as I would love to compare the two when the 2nd version arrives.
  
 --


----------



## kurtextrem

If anyone feels like buying the new iPhone 7, we now have the next most prominent earbud - wireless: http://www.apple.com/airpods/
 "Clearly superior sound.
 It’s great-sounding music, movies, and more to your ears. AirPods provide rich, high-quality AAC audio. "
  
 no spec or similar given.... so no idea about freq range


----------



## Willber

Well, I'm so impressed even before completing the burning-in/EQing/comparing of my SHE3800 that I've bought another couple of pairs. I don't know what the story is but AE has none in stock that I can find, I got mine from ebay UK.


----------



## tommo21

willber said:


> Well, I'm so impressed even before completing the burning-in/EQing/comparing of my SHE3800 that I've bought another couple of pairs. I don't know what the story is but AE has none in stock that I can find, I got mine from ebay UK.


 

 I also got these today...they are amazing. Bought 3 more pairs from Fasttech total cost including shipping: $9.91
  
 Also ordered the T-Music V2, also have the V1


----------



## Willber

tommo21 said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I'm so impressed even before completing the burning-in/EQing/comparing of my SHE3800 that I've bought another couple of pairs. I don't know what the story is but AE has none in stock that I can find, I got mine from ebay UK.
> ...


  
 Damn, I didn't know about Fasttech, that's a helluva price. Oh well, I paid double that but at least I will get them in a couple of days.


----------



## Tomasz2D

tommo21 said:


> I also got these today...they are amazing. Bought 3 more pairs from Fasttech total cost including shipping: $9.91
> 
> Also ordered the T-Music V2, also have the V1




Did you get your Philips from Slowtech ? I am waiting already 6 weeks and counting for my pair.


----------



## tommo21

tomasz2d said:


> Did you get your Philips from Slowtech ? I am waiting already 6 weeks and counting for my pair.




They were actually quite fast for my first pair. 10 days registered air mail to Norway.


----------



## ZerkMeister

audio123 said:


> MusicMaker TP16 is officially my favourite earbud.


 
 No more hypetrains please, my wallet cant handle it lol.


----------



## jant71

Finally! I now have hybrid RX-1's...

  


 Need to be twisted into the right position to both balance the sides and for them to sound right but very little change to the sound. Granted there is some since they fit better but don't have foams on them. Maybe not quite as bright as naked for me nor quite what they sound sound with VE foams on them. They do sound "right" though and fit seems zero issue so far esp. since my right and left fit different(usually my right is a looser less stable fit).


----------



## BloodyPenguin

zerkmeister said:


> No more hypetrains please, my wallet cant handle it lol.


 
  
 The TP16 also has a pretty cable...  
  
 Closeup by yours truly...


----------



## jant71

People really like that MM cable


----------



## Willber

zerkmeister said:


> audio123 said:
> 
> 
> > MusicMaker TP16 is officially my favourite earbud.
> ...


 
 How about $3 for the SHE3800? That's a pretty cheap ticket.


----------



## jamesbdh

jant71 said:


> Finally! I now have hybrid RX-1's...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Where does one get these?


----------



## vapman

jant71 said:


> People really like that MM cable


 

 I hate it with every fiber of my being, but that's just me


----------



## jant71

jamesbdh said:


> Where does one get these?


 
  
 You find one of these cheaply(around US $11): http://av.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL029423&page=1
 Not perfect but good for fit and one of the better implementations of ear caps i have had, i.e. better than yurbuds, acoustibuds, etc.


vapman said:


> I hate it with every fiber of my being, but that's just me


 

 Okay, 75% of people like that cable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  
 Thinking I like the Senn MX680 better than the RX-1 regardless. A bit more and better bass and probably a better synergy with Cowon then the more neutral-ish Auglamour is. Fit is better which helps. Senn has the cable slider that comes off and is one of the few buds that do foams and ear fins/hooks together w/o needing mods.


----------



## vapman

Woah I forgot all about the MX680!  I have very fond memories of those.
 I haven't had those since I was rocking a 3rd gen iPod i think.
 the RX1 does a lot of things great but it doesn't have the bass impact i want necessairally.
  
 lastly thank you, i am glad to know i represent 25% of head-fi


----------



## jant71

Yeah, I had the PMX680 and that was quite a different fit. When I saw the refurbs for $15, I had to try them out since the Senns and Korean players always gave some good synergy and great bass in the past for me. Sometimes you have to revisit. 
  
 Yep, only like 3 others I can remember off the top of my head but they all liked it, lol!


----------



## vapman

jant71 said:


> Yeah, I had the PMX680 and that was quite a different fit. When I saw the refurbs for $15, I had to try them out since the Senns and Korean players always gave some good synergy and great bass in the past for me. Sometimes you have to revisit.
> 
> Yep, only like 3 others I can remember off the top of my head but they all liked it, lol!


 

 Where are the refurbs at? Amazon? I have about 15 on a gift card and would gladly spend them on those ol' buds.


----------



## jant71

Yes sir, VMinnovations sells on ebay or Amazon $13.99 or $14.99 free shipping. The extra dollar is for faster shipping. They have the 90-day warranty and mine looked like new with new sealed clip and foams and all the rings, fins, and the velcro case in a snap together tray.
  
 One their site as well...https://www.vminnovations.com/Product_62963/Sennheiser-MX-680-Adidas-Sports-In-Ear-Earphones-Yellow-Refurbished-.html?rd=gpf_62963&gclid=CNH1oo60_s4CFcMkhgodsvUEBg


----------



## jamesbdh

jant71 said:


> You find one of these cheaply(around US $11): http://av.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL029423&page=1
> Not perfect but good for fit and one of the better implementations of ear caps i have had, i.e. better than yurbuds, acoustibuds, etc.


 
 a thought you could just buy them.


----------



## jant71

I guess you can...http://store.jvc.com/search.php?search_mode=models&search_value=HA-EN10&search=search...but not sure how much the price will end up being.


----------



## tintheman

Hello, does anyone know anything about Ty Hi Z HP320M, is it a new model with the 320 ohm?


----------



## Fabi

tintheman said:


> Hello, does anyone know anything about Ty Hi Z HP320M, is it a new model with the 320 ohm?



I think it is the older version with white shells and white non braided cable, zen 1 look-like.


----------



## tintheman

How about the sound quality? similar to new 320 ohm? Or like zen 1?


----------



## fairx

between seahf and TY, do they have same build quality? cable, connector etc?


----------



## luedriver

I finally got my seahf 32Ohm today, same box as ty hi-z except it says seahf on top instead of earphone
  
 inside I got a lot of different colored foams, like what they show on aliexpress
  
 only 2 sets of donuts though, red and white,
  
 initial thoughts is that they sound very different than the usual ty or monk sound, with a few hours burn in, (pink noise 60 mins + 10 rest on repeat) I don't think there is much difference, everything sounds different with these,
  
  
 I tried the foams and found they are kinda uncomfortable, then I got the idea to turn the donut foams inside out so the edge of the donuts goes inside, this improved the comfort, but still found them to be a bit big,
  
 this is kinda weird, since I use ty hp32 with foams for hours before they get uncomfortable
  
 although I haven't used the ty hi-z for about a week now, and the monks that I used just a few days ago I use with no foams or donuts on, (I think I tired the cygnus foams but they are mostly to cover the edges of the earbud imho)
  
  
 final word from me (for seahf 32ohm), is idk
  
 good? bad? idk, I want to like them, but they sounded very different OOTB, maybe I will get used to them since I can tell they sound good, but everything sounds very different than I am used to, I think its due to the treble (maybe)
  
 [just another biased opinion, that may or may not help]


----------



## fairx

luedriver said:


> I finally got my seahf 32Ohm today, same box as ty hi-z except it says seahf on top instead of earphone
> 
> inside I got a lot of different colored foams, like what they show on aliexpress
> 
> ...


 
 hmm can you share your setup? I mean source - amp etc


----------



## music4mhell

Recently i am listening to DarkHorse 400 Ohms earbud mostly, the sub bass is awesome.
 I am thinking of ordering 320 ohms version.
  
 Should i order Seahf or TY one ? 
 Or it doz nt matter which ever i order ?


----------



## haiku

luedriver said:


> I finally got my seahf 32Ohm today, same box as ty hi-z except it says seahf on top instead of earphone
> 
> inside I got a lot of different colored foams, like what they show on aliexpress
> 
> ...


 

 I got the 32Ohm as well, and immediately put them away after just 2 minutes of listening. Out of the box, they sound worst of all my Seahf earbuds.


----------



## luedriver

fairx said:


> hmm can you share your setup? I mean source - amp etc


 
 pc to old kenwood stereo amp ax-31
  
 sometimes I prefer listening to my iphone 6s to pc with cygnus, if that helps
  
 I don't have a preferred source with ty hi-z or ve monk 
  
 also I test earphones first with a zeos' video of him testing the stax, then just various songs on my pc
  
 but if I am on the road then I just test them with music from my iphone on random, like I did with the cygnus


----------



## kurtextrem

Musicmaker TP13: Any comparison to Shozy Cygnus?


----------



## luedriver

new apple earpods with lightning connection
  
 not a lot of information, more lacking information
  
 like if its connected to the lightning does it have a dac/amp and if not does this mean that the analog signal from the iphone is now directed through the lighting jack
  
 something I always wanted to know since seeing the iphone dock with lighning connector that you can plug headphones to the dock with out the dock being connected to the headphone jack of the iphone...
  
  
 OOT I know, but if feels like I am the only one who's asking these questions...
  
  
 also OOT if the lightning earpods have a dac that means that the 3.5mm connector also has one, which has to be the worlds smallest dac/amp to fit in there


----------



## Townyj

kurtextrem said:


> Musicmaker TP13: Any comparison to Shozy Cygnus?




I have both and enjoy both immensely.. thr TP16 is a better buy for the price though. Great allrounder


----------



## kurtextrem

townyj said:


> I have both and enjoy both immensely.. thr TP16 is a better buy for the price though. Great allrounder


 
 which bud does what better?


----------



## Townyj

kurtextrem said:


> which bud does what better?




Im not good with going into detail on either really. But if you want a bud for edm/rock etc id pick the TP16, the cygnus has a delicate sound which draws you in. The Cygnus does well in all areas, well rounded. TP16 is slightly v shaped and similar to my old Tomahawk, fits better though.


----------



## teston

The T-music v2, tp16 and fareal 64ohm. Don't know which is better to pull the trigger. By now I'm happy with ve monk and waiting for the candy, and also the ty hi-z hp 32 ppl talking about.


----------



## Willber

teston said:


> The T-music v2, tp16 and fareal 64ohm. Don't know which is better to pull the trigger. By now I'm happy with ve monk and waiting for the candy, and also the ty hi-z hp 32 ppl talking about.


 

 If you like the Monk+ and are interested in the Hi-Z 32 then I strongly recommend the SHE3800 which is better than both IMO:
  
 https://www.fasttech.com/products/2001/10005987/1460600-philips-she3800-3-5mm-earphone


----------



## Saoshyant

Hmm, might have to order that one to add to my growing inventory of budget earbuds.


----------



## jamesbdh

Those SHE3800, is there a version with a mic?  my "cheap" earbuds generally are ones that I use with my phone.  Nice to be able to take calls as well.


----------



## teston

willber said:


> If you like the Monk+ and are interested in the Hi-Z 32 then I strongly recommend the SHE3800 which is better than both IMO:
> 
> https://www.fasttech.com/products/2001/10005987/1460600-philips-she3800-3-5mm-earphone



I used to use she3800 2 years back (bought 2 times) and it all broke after several months. It's good for the price but I don't think it's great. I think it is not even match with the earpod when I own them.
Don't know if both of them are fake or not. I bought them from 2 different local sellers.


----------



## golov17

jamesbdh said:


> Those SHE3800, is there a version with a mic?  my "cheap" earbuds generally are ones that I use with my phone.  Nice to be able to take calls as well.


 http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=4057


----------



## jamesbdh

golov17 said:


> http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=4057


 

 Thanks.  Not sure about the price though.  for $4 they sound like a great buy.  for $12 puts them at the same price as Remax 303 that I already have. might just get the regular version to test.


----------



## Willber

teston said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > If you like the Monk+ and are interested in the Hi-Z 32 then I strongly recommend the SHE3800 which is better than both IMO:
> ...


 
 Hmm, mine work fine and are very impressive, I prefer them to my Monk+, Hi-Z 32 and AG RX-1 (I'll post up a comparison soon). I've got two more coming on Monday so I'll check them out to see if there are any issues.


----------



## music4mhell

jamesbdh said:


> Those SHE3800, is there a version with a mic?  my "cheap" earbuds generally are ones that I use with my phone.  Nice to be able to take calls as well.


 
 Best earbud with mic is Musicmaker TP16.
 I am enjoying so much with my mobile


----------



## mebaali

willber said:


> Hmm, mine work fine and are very impressive, I prefer them to my Monk+, Hi-Z 32 and AG RX-1 (I'll post up a comparison soon).


 
 Same here. I prefer the sound signature of SHE3800 (to my ears, works for all kinds of music genres) over my original Monk, Hi-Z 32 and RX-1.


----------



## Saoshyant

Right now, I have a few earbuds with mics.  I really do like the Edifier H180P and use it at work constantly as it has a fun sig, and any damage would be a minimal loss.  Another I use at home is an earbud with detachable cable & a mic'd MMCX cable.  It claims to use the Yuin PK1 driver, but I have no real way to verify.  Now, with what feels to be the reawakening of the earbuds, I'd love to see a rebirth in ear clips.  I have 3 that I enjoy, but innovation is extinct in this format unless there are some new offerings I am unaware of.


----------



## Willber

mebaali said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, they are excellent all-rounders with hidden depths if you want to EQ them.


----------



## teston

willber said:


> Hmm, mine work fine and are very impressive, I prefer them to my Monk+, Hi-Z 32 and AG RX-1 (I'll post up a comparison soon). I've got two more coming on Monday so I'll check them out to see if there are any issues.



Maybe I will buy them the 3rd time to see. For me now ve monk is better than monk+ and rx-1. With donut foam and good source to improve the bass it's very hard to beat this guy


----------



## Willber

teston said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm, mine work fine and are very impressive, I prefer them to my Monk+, Hi-Z 32 and AG RX-1 (I'll post up a comparison soon). I've got two more coming on Monday so I'll check them out to see if there are any issues.
> ...


 
 For $3 it's got to be worth a try. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I don't have the original Monk, I have heard that it is similar to the Hi-Z 32?


----------



## fairx

mebaali said:


> Same here. I prefer the sound signature of SHE3800 (to my ears, works for all kinds of music genres) over my original Monk, Hi-Z 32 and RX-1.




This is intriguing. Because I really like my TY 32 as all rounder. tomahwak still superior in layering and coherent, forward mids but lack sub bass. Rx1 although very very good mids and high, not much soundstage nor kick bass

It's quite impossible to find 3800 earbud version in my country as they're shown as iem instead. 

Is it confirmed that they're actually identical to edifier h180?. I can get edifier around 7 bucks shipped locally


----------



## Willber

fairx said:


> mebaali said:
> 
> 
> > Same here. I prefer the sound signature of SHE3800 (to my ears, works for all kinds of music genres) over my original Monk, Hi-Z 32 and RX-1.
> ...


 
  
 Have you tried this link? It says free worldwide shipping:
  
 https://www.fasttech.com/products/2001/10005987/1460600-philips-she3800-3-5mm-earphone


----------



## golov17

fairx said:


> This is intriguing. Because I really like my TY 32 as all rounder. tomahwak still superior in layering and coherent, forward mids but lack sub bass. Rx1 although very very good mids and high, not much soundstage nor kick bass
> 
> It's quite impossible to find 3800 earbud version in my country as they're shown as iem instead.
> 
> Is it confirmed that they're actually identical to edifier h180?. I can get edifier around 7 bucks shipped locally


 in the beginning there were SHE3800, later Suvov S30, and then Edifiers...


----------



## mebaali

fairx said:


> This is intriguing. Because I really like my TY 32 as all rounder. tomahwak still superior in layering and coherent, forward mids but lack sub bass. Rx1 although very very good mids and high, not much soundstage nor kick bass
> 
> It's quite impossible to find 3800 earbud version in my country as they're shown as iem instead.
> 
> Is it confirmed that they're actually identical to edifier h180?. I can get edifier around 7 bucks shipped locally


 
 Yep, have even ordered an extra pair from fasttech to try and see for any further improvement in their sound via recabling them (plus stock cable appears very feeble)
  
 Not sure whether Edifier uses the same drivers, but the shell seems to be a common one.


----------



## sharkz

Has anyone actually recabled any of these buds in the past? I'd like to grab a few pairs of the Philips, and recable them but I'm worried about space. I'm a pretty good at soldering, but I have shaky hands and don't want to trash a bunch of pairs. I'm mainly worried about things being very, very close to each other.


----------



## vapman

sharkz said:


> Has anyone actually recabled any of these buds in the past? I'd like to grab a few pairs of the Philips, and recable them but I'm worried about space. I'm a pretty good at soldering, but I have shaky hands and don't want to trash a bunch of pairs. I'm mainly worried about things being very, very close to each other.




If theyre anything like the edifier (they should be quite similar) should be very easy to pop open and closed again.


----------



## vapman

Vintage Sony! =:O


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Vintage Sony! =:O


888


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> 888


 

 and 828LP =)


----------



## sharkz

I'm less worried about the opening and closing part than I am the electrical bits. I don't want to let the magic smoke out as we say when things are wired incorrectly. I may have to order a few pairs to see what it looks like inside.
  
 The one thing there isn't a shortage of is replacement cables on Aliexpress. The goal is to find a good one.


----------



## vapman

sharkz said:


> I'm less worried about the opening and closing part than I am the electrical bits. I don't want to let the magic smoke out as we say when things are wired incorrectly. I may have to order a few pairs to see what it looks like inside.
> 
> The one thing there isn't a shortage of is replacement cables on Aliexpress. The goal is to find a good one.


 

 As long as you have a halfway decent soldering iron with some sort of temperature control, you'll be all good 
 If you don't have one, you can get a good one shipped from the USA for under $40 on ebay. Do an eBay search with: *soldering tip (stahl,zd98,zd99)*


----------



## sharkz

I've had the Stahl variable temp one for many years. It's been a great starter unit. Eventually I need to make my way up to a Hakko FX. That would mean less money to waste on headphones though. The gear junky's dilemma.


----------



## vapman

sharkz said:


> I've had the Stahl variable temp one for many years. It's been a great starter unit. Eventually I need to make my way up to a Hakko FX. That would mean less money to waste on headphones though. The gear junky's dilemma.


 

 Take it from the owner of a 888 non-digital and a 808. The Stahl is all you need. I have lost my 888's soldering handle and had to replace it on a couple occasions. I love my 888, but if I ever lost the handle again, i'd just sell the base and buy a Stahl... I would have done it the first time if i knew the Stahls were actually good.
  
 edit:: The 808 is worth every penny though if you do desoldering work regularly.


----------



## sharkz

Good to know, thanks for the advice.


----------



## purplesun

I loved my old Sony E888LP from years ago. I tried the TY Hi-Z 32ohm recently, but it sounded like my MX500, which I never really liked.
  
 Can anyone recommend a closest modern equivalent to E888LP?
 Are any NOS E888LP being sold?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Sehn82

Just received my RX-1. Any owners have issues with distortion? I am experiencing pretty bad distortion on the right bud, almost sounds like its "rattling". A little deflated considering how hyped I was anticipating this bud. Just pm'ed the Aliexpress seller. Not even sure if i can get any from of recompense for it.


----------



## ozkan

sehn82 said:


> Just received my RX-1. Any owners have issues with distortion? I am experiencing pretty bad distortion on the right bud, almost sounds like its "rattling". A little deflated considering how hyped I was anticipating this bud. Just pm'ed the Aliexpress seller. Not even sure if i can get any from of recompense for it.




It can be some kind of driver flex. Try to blow some air through the vents on the back. That may help.

I once had the same experience and solved the issue by blowing air.


----------



## Saoshyant

I think I might give this a try https://smile.amazon.com/Brainwavz-Krudul-Earphone-Storage-Management/dp/B01J533MRU/


----------



## BloodyPenguin

saoshyant said:


> I think I might give this a try https://smile.amazon.com/Brainwavz-Krudul-Earphone-Storage-Management/dp/B01J533MRU/




I have one! 

My pictures:









--


----------



## Willber

saoshyant said:


> I think I might give this a try https://smile.amazon.com/Brainwavz-Krudul-Earphone-Storage-Management/dp/B01J533MRU/


I use drawing pins (thumb tacks) lined up along a wooden shelf...


----------



## Sehn82

ozkan said:


> It can be some kind of driver flex. Try to blow some air through the vents on the back. That may help.
> 
> I once had the same experience and solved the issue by blowing air.




Ah read this late. It's already dropped off the post office for a return. I'm not even sure if my shipping cost gets refunded here. I'm starting to think I should have requested for a partial refund instead.


----------



## luedriver

del


----------



## ld100

I know this is not the most appropriate place to ask, but since I am using earbuds a lot I want to hear what people think who use earbuds as well... What is a good DAC/AMP combo to get in a reasonable price range? Does not have to be portable. I want to use it with my computer mostly... Something that sounds good and look good? Seems that ODAC is a good way to go, but is there anything else you guys can suggest?


----------



## Saoshyant

BloodyPenguin Great pictures as usual! I'm quite happy that it's two in the pack. While I kind of wish they used a clamp like other hangers they make, I can understand how that creates a bit more of a cost & space issue.



willber said:


> I use drawing pins (thumb tacks) lined up along a wooden shelf...




I've done similar things in the past, but as I'm very happy with the other Brainwavz hanger I've bought for my HD 700, my desire to support them by buying their product is fairly high. Plus having a couple within arm's reach would give the headphone a little rest as I always grab it no matter what due to pure convenience.


----------



## Willber

saoshyant said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > I use drawing pins (thumb tacks) lined up along a wooden shelf...
> ...



Fair enough, they do look good quality.


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> I think I might give this a try https://smile.amazon.com/Brainwavz-Krudul-Earphone-Storage-Management/dp/B01J533MRU/


 http://s.aliexpress.com/3QBvemmY
http://s.aliexpress.com/mEfUneaA


----------



## Saoshyant

golov17 Interesting, I'll consider those too.


----------



## kurtextrem

Any opinions on TY2 vs Zen 2 yet?


----------



## Danneq

A new friend for Aiwa HP-D9:






Sorry BloodyPenguin for the poor photographical skills of mine...

Rose Mojito is really nice. Very wide and pretty deep soundstage, great detail. Bass goes deeper than I imagined. Vocals are a bit recessed as some have noted in this thread.

Overall I think they are better than Aiwa D9. There are only three things that Aiwa does better:
1. Details - You can hear about as much detail in both Mojito and D9. But I get the feeling that bass sort of bleed into details on Mojito. Everything is perfectly clear on D9 all the time (probably because of more forward mids and less bass).
2. Instrument placement - you can pinpoint instruments exactly on Aiwa D9. While you hear details with Mojito it's not as easy to pinpoint them as closely as when listening with Aiwa D9
3. Instrument layering. While Mojito's soundstage is a bit wider, D9's soundstage is a bit deeper. So you get more of a feel of depth on the D9 which helps with layering of instruments. For example, you can clearly hear that the ride cymbal is a bit further away compared to the crash cymbal.

I have been toying with a top 10 list after I was asked by a fellow Head fier.



Spoiler: This is my current one



1. Blox TM7
2. Sony MDR-E252
3. Sony MX980/OMX980/MX985 (they are all pretty much the same)
4. VE Zen 1.0
5. Edimun V3
6. Rose Mojito
7. Shozy Cygnus
8. Sony MDR-E282
9. Sony MDR-E484
10. Musicmaker Ting

Honorable mention: Astrotec Lyra



I really like Tomahawk but they have to give way to earbuds that are better technically. Still I often pick Tomahawk more often than those on my top 10.

Anyway, Rose Mojito definitely is a keeper. I just hope they release a revised version with slightly less bass and slightly more forward mids...

EDIT: If Aiwa HP D9 had better bass and a more balanced sound (instead of only having mids and highs), they would be my no 1 without question. Now they don't even make the top 10, despite having the best details I've heard in a pair of earbuds (Mojito comes in second place).


----------



## JASru

Are these DK Jin with MMCX? Or it is something new?
 https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/Newl-Daik-Wooden-Earbuds-With-MMCX-Connetor-DK-Pu-Bass-Earbud-DK-JIN-DIY-Magic-Sound/32708085194.html?spm=2114.13010308.0.44.3k4J67


----------



## sharkz

Those Aiwa's are definitely among the coolest looking buds though. That counts for something.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

danneq said:


> A new friend for Aiwa HP-D9:
> 
> 
> Sorry @BloodyPenguin for the poor photographical skills of mine...


 
  
 Unforgivable.  Now you are just going to have to send both pairs to me, so I can shoot them properly.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 --


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> A new friend for Aiwa HP-D9:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Wow! It's really great to see someone compare the Mojito to the Aiwa HP D9. 
 IMHO, to me the Mojito already has excellent  layering and instrument placements, and I do not find the bass to bleed. HOWEVER, that is only based upon the earbuds I have in my collection. 
  
 If you mention that the HP D9 is better than Mojito is those respect, well god damn I just have to listen to one in my lifetime. I was already extremely impressed with the Mojito's but now the Aiwa's can outperform them in layering and detail?! My god I have to try them!!!!!!!!!!!

 Too bad they are soo expensive nowadays that I think they may be worth more than solid gold ounce for ounce?

 Btw,  a more forward and bassier version of Mojito is being released, nicknamed the Masya:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-2075769592.37.cKdXma&id=536938080337


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I find myself only listening to Cygnus these days...Mojito is collecting dust.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tayyab pirzada said:


> I find myself only listening to Cygnus these days...Mojito is collecting dust.


 
 Cygnus is back to HK for warranty, whilst Mojito is getting utilized the most.

 Guess your preference changed after listening to the Zen hahahaha


----------



## vapman

Lol... Im back on cygnus for the majority of my use.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Lol... Im back on cygnus for the majority of my use.


i'm not Cygnus, but Edimun v2


----------



## Tomasz2D

golov17 said:


> i'm not Cygnus, but Edimun v2


 
 And where is your 400s now?


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> And where is your 400s now?


 I use from time to time, like many other..


----------



## Tomasz2D

golov17 said:


> I use from time to time, like many other..


 
 What would be the closest earbud to 400s in your opinion and is it very different from LD-3.0 400 ?


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> i'm not Cygnus, but Edimun v2




Edimun V3 is no 5 on my top 10 but my top recommendation for anyone who wants a good earbud. Amazing how a $10 earbud can be modded to sound close to and almost beat $100-150 earbuds!


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> What would be the closest earbud to 400s in your opinion and is it very different from LD-3.0 400 ?


 All TY - Seahf have something in common, sometimes they are very impressive, but on some recordings may sound tedious, inconsistent earbuds, in my opinion ..


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> Edimun V3 is no 5 on my top 10 but my top recommendation for anyone who wants a good earbud. Amazing how a $10 earbud can be modded to sound close to and almost beat $100-150 earbuds!


 Unfortunately I have no news of my ev3, I do not know what happened, lol


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> Unfortunately I have no news of my ev3, I do not know what happened, lol


 
 i know they are working on a big order for lots of indonesian local stores.... i think mine is after that in the queue. hope yours shows up soon, i am giving some less used buds attention while i wait for ev3 delivery....
  
 Danneq, i am always so jealous of your vintage buds stash. Maybe i'll have to wait for the day you decide to sell the Aiwas


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> i know they are working on a big order for lots of indonesian local stores.... i think mine is after that in the queue. hope yours shows up soon, i am giving some less used buds attention while i wait for ev3 delivery..


 yep, i see..


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> Danneq, i am always so jealous of your vintage buds stash. Maybe i'll have to wait for the day you decide to sell the Aiwas




Over 4 years of watching Ebay Germany and UK and just about every day manually going through all new listings for earbuds, earphones, cassette walkmans and PCDPs got me a small collection of vintage buds. Still I had to pay a lot for some of them. The only times I was lucky was with Aiwa V2, one of the earliest earbuds released in 1982. The volume control wasn't working so I opened it up and soldered the wires directly which bypassed the volume control. I got those for something like £30-40. Nowadays I just can't afford to pay $300-400 for a pair of earbuds. It was difficult just collecting funds for Rose Mojito. That's what having kids will do to your budget....


----------



## Joberthong

I have gathered Fiio EM3 (White prototype), AUGlamour RX1, VE Monk+ all in one place, and have no life, so here are my impressions.

*Fiio EM3 + (medium thickness donut foams packaged with VE Monk+)*
 These were packaged with an MP3 player for free.  I kept these untouched in a shelf for over 4 months thinking they were probably pure garbage!  Now having assembled all three earphones, I can say that isn't at all the case.  Out of the three, this is the only one that includes a headset control to pair with android devices.  Very handy.

 Sub-bass impact, or 'kick' is the strongest in the EM3.  These are great for rap, pop .  Next, the EM3 has a very charming midrange.  The vocals are presented in a forward-ish manner, but they are not 100% 'in the head'.  You get the impression that the vocalist is singing at you from armslength away, rather than onstage / earshot with the VE Monk+.  The sound, while full-bodied and with decent soundstage, gives off the impression that it is confined within the earbud cavity.  To EM3's credit, it has the largest cavity of all the 3 earphones so it's not by any means claustrophobic.  The weak point of the EM3 is a slight lack of detail in Treble / Mids, especially when the strong sub-bass takes over.
  
*AUGlamour RX1  (MONK+ Thin Foams)*
 These score high in craftsmanship and durability, but I have a hunch that EM3 > Monk+ > RX1 in pure longevity.  They come with a shell carrying case and... a wooden block cablewrap that doubles as a very nice tablet / smartphone stand.  (WHAT.  of all things.)

 RX1 is without a doubt the closest to an analytic-leaning IEM I've encountered in earphone form.  Overall, I'd describe the sound as prestine/CLEAR, and detailed.  These take very well to vocals, any classical or bluegrass strings, and percussion.  Moreover, even the presentation resembles that of an IEM; the sound is forward and in-the-head.  The sound is not as full-bodied as EM3 or Monk+.  In a quiet track you can expect to hear vocals / guitar and not much between that and the bass.  Soundstage-wise RX1 will edge out most single balanced armature IEMs, but it is not as roomy as that of the Monk+.  The result is a pure and detailed sound with little distractions, with only an occassional soundstage reach / bass kick atypical of an IEM. 

 If you were Team Etymoic ER-4P way back, this might be the earphone for you.  No it won't reveal or isolate as much, but it's still a $20 earbud at the end of the day.
  
*VE Monk+  (MONK+ Thin Foams)*
 The clear plastic has a strange appeal to it, and overall seems built to last.  The Monk+ is much harder to drive than EM3/RX1.  The thin, color-coded foams are quite useful in and of themselves, because they won't muck up the sound as much as mid-thickness foams.
  
 Out of the box, these have a big wow factor because of the large soundstage.  Essentially, Monk+ is very open, out-of-the-head, and a bit digital yet still detailed.  The vocals are much farther back than in RX1, and the spaciousness of the sound is a marked difference.  There is good bass extention, and decent sub-bass.  The sound is very full-bodied, balanced, and is tied together in a smooth, non-fatiguing way.  In this respect they are an easier listen compared with the overly revealing RX1, and sub-bassy EM3.  I like the details, but the RX1 ruined me and I sense that the Monk+ has a rougher, digital-sounding characteristic in the midrange and treble.  While the balance of highs and lows is in harmony, the full-bodied sound plus the wide soundstage has a tendency to get overly busy and obsure the details.  Monk+ were tuned ambitiously to emulate the soundstage of a larger class of headphones, and considering the limitations of earphones, it's reasonable to say it was a great success.


----------



## audio123

Zen 2.0 still is legendary if driven properly


----------



## music4mhell

audio123 said:


> Zen 2.0 still is legendary if driven properly


 
 +100


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> Zen 2.0 still is legendary if driven properly


amen


----------



## To.M

Just saw TY HI-Z  32ohm at Penon Audio for 3,87usd and I couldn't find any logical reason not to buy them  time to add something to my modest earbud collection consisting only of VE MONK and PLUS


----------



## Willber

to.m said:


> Just saw TY HI-Z  32ohm at Penon Audio for 3,87usd and I couldn't find any logical reason not to buy them  time to add something to my modest earbud collection consisting only of VE MONK and PLUS


 

 I haven't got the original Monk but the Hi-Z compares very favourably with the Monk+. If you fancy splashing out another $3 then try the SHE3800 - it might be better than both of them... Anyway, you might be interested in this thread:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds


----------



## To.M

thanks but I know that thread  yeah I heard about the dirt cheap she3800 but I guess my next pair will something from the level of 20usd, maybe musicmaker tp16


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

audio123 said:


> Zen 2.0 still is legendary if driven properly


 
 Zen 2 is basically my favourite


----------



## rymd

golov17 said:


> Unfortunately I have no news of my ev3, I do not know what happened, lol


 
  
 I was just told mine shipped, finally after 2 1/2 months. They had some Ramadan delays and then Iriyan said something about getting government permission to legally sell with worldwide EMS or something, idk. yours will probably come soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 I havent been here in a long time and now this thread moves so fast! here's my past few months of earbudding.
  
 AuGlamour RX-1: hard to get a proper fit. honestly it sounds like garbage unless I swap L/R and reverse channels. then it becomes decent for the price but not even close to the Cygnus. off to the for sale section!
  
 Zen 2 w/ ultra thin Monk plus foams: the new combo to beat for me. I remember trashing these foams a while ago because they worked horribly on the Monk+. that's still true but I realized they're perfect on the Zen 2 to balance out that thick sound. one day I just got tired of thick foams and started listening to the Cygnus and bright stuff like HD800 so I could actually hear some highs. naked Zen 2 didn't work but ultra-thin Monk+ foams were amazing. it's still slightly warm, but now I don't have a reason to pick up the Cygnus or MX980 anymore.
  
 Cygnus: still a great value after half a year and looks like most people feel the same. but I don't have a compelling reason to use these over the Zens other than for the more comfortable fit. my cables still haven't turned green.


----------



## FatTeemo

Argh, aliexpress seller sent me the seahf 400 ohms instead of the 320 ohms that I ordered. I am trying to get an exchange or refund or something. In any case, if I am forced to keep this, how different is it from the 320 ohms?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

rymd said:


> I was just told mine shipped, finally after 2 1/2 months. They had some Ramadan delays and then Iriyan said something about getting government permission to legally sell with worldwide EMS or something, idk. yours will probably come soon
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Zen 2 without foams is better imo. I use Cygnus over the Zens most of the time because Zen 2 requires amping...and I only have a desktop amp (I'm not a fan of portable amps which are so bulky).


----------



## vapman

The Fiio E18 is a great portable dac/amp combo that does not take up too much space at all. I was using it with cygnus earlier, now I have it stacked with my bMac.


----------



## gwompki

Well...after deliberating on seahf vs ty 320ohm for way too long I just took the plunge and bought Zen 2. All the extras that come with it finally convinced me, not to mention the glowing recommendations from golov and tayyab. Hope I won't regret it.

Also for anyone who has issues with rx1 I highly recommend you try them with the heigi donut foams before you give up on them. Completely changed the sound for me. I immediately stopped trying other foams and playing with the placement in my ear. It brought out the low end clearly, highs are much clearer, but the mids are still just as present. Definitely not much sub-bass so don't expect that. Previously I was only able to get good sound with an amp but now they sound great straight from my phone.


----------



## datboi

i never knew the apple earbuds were called Ibuds


----------



## SuperMAG

to.m said:


> Just saw TY HI-Z  32ohm at Penon Audio for 3,87usd and I couldn't find any logical reason not to buy them  time to add something to my modest earbud collection consisting only of VE MONK and PLUS




Last time i chexked they were priced at around 7/8 in penon audio.


----------



## klove4252

The new musicmaker TKY2 just came in the mail. I'm still playing around with foams but so far so good.


----------



## vapman

If penon has sub $5 hi-z's ill grab one there. Been waiting forever for my ali one coming by singapore post,


----------



## kinetic758

klove4252 said:


> The new musicmaker TKY2 just came in the mail. I'm still playing around with foams but so far so good.




Let us know your thoughts. Still on the fence with them. The low end might be too anemic for me (and I'm NOT a basshead). Mids are nice though.


----------



## Saoshyant

@vapman Still showing standard price on Penon for me.


----------



## damson

klove4252 said:


> The new musicmaker TKY2 just came in the mail. I'm still playing around with foams but so far so good.


 
 Any initial impressions? I'm really considering to get those.


----------



## springbay

fatteemo said:


> Argh, aliexpress seller sent me the seahf 400 ohms instead of the 320 ohms that I ordered. I am trying to get an exchange or refund or something. In any case, if I am forced to keep this, how different is it from the 320 ohms?


 
  
 The LD3 400 and LD4 400 I've ordered from AE arrived at customs yesterday. So I expect to get them sometime next week and will let you know how they compare.
 One thing is for sure. Either the LD3 320, LD3 400 or LD4 400 will be my favorite earbud. I will stock up on my favorite model (to have spare some pairs) and quit looking for other buds, at least until VE releases the Nirvana. The Zen 2 is a great bud, given that you feed them with a very powerful source. The LD3 320 is a superb bud as long as you feed them with something more powerful than a budget smart phone. I suppose there is a reason why there are no LD4 320, because I have a hard time imagining how the LD3 320 could be made even better. But I'll wait for the LD3 400 and LD4 400 to arrive until I start stocking up, since there is slight chance I will like one of them even more.


----------



## vapman

I am trying to figure out how to open some old buds so I can replace the wiring, it seems like it's 2 pieces (front and back) snapped together but I can't really figure out how to open it...


----------



## kurtextrem

tayyab pirzada said:


> Zen 2 without foams is better imo. I use Cygnus over the Zens most of the time because Zen 2 requires amping...and I only have a desktop amp (I'm not a fan of portable amps which are so bulky).


 
 How comfortable is the Zen 2 then? Cygnus with its white buds is like the king of comfort... but Asura 2 / Monk without foams is a bit.. harsh?


----------



## blazer78

Busting out my old relics for a listen


----------



## To.M

The price 3.87 usd for TY HI-Z 32ohm I get through the aliexpress app.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I had a bit of fun with my most recent photo shoot.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Enter *Wong Kuan Wae's* Custom DIY Earbud:
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
 --


----------



## basketballTaco

This has been quite helpful for deciding on which earbuds to buy. I am limited to the "Great" section at the moment and would like to know, can anyone provide any comparisons between ve monk+ and edifier h185? I'll have both eventually, along with the aurvana air, just want to hear some impressions.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kurtextrem said:


> How comfortable is the Zen 2 then? Cygnus with its white buds is like the king of comfort... but Asura 2 / Monk without foams is a bit.. harsh?


 
 I use Zen 2 without foams (As they are intended to be according to Venture Electronics). They are fine for me but hurt after a few hours. Cygnus is the king of comfort out of all buds I own.


----------



## haiku

tayyab pirzada said:


> I use Zen 2 without foams (As they are intended to be according to Venture Electronics). They are fine for me but hurt after a few hours. Cygnus is the king of comfort out of all buds I own.


 

 For me it´s the old Monk with the donuts. Really cozy.


----------



## kurtextrem

tayyab pirzada said:


> I use Zen 2 without foams (As they are intended to be according to Venture Electronics). They are fine for me but hurt after a few hours. Cygnus is the king of comfort out of all buds I own.


 
 nooo... that's a dealbreaker for me  are foams really that bad on it?
 I'd use Zen 2 for gaming...


----------



## golov17

kurtextrem said:


> nooo... that's a dealbreaker for me  are foams really that bad on it?
> I'd use Zen 2 for gaming...


use Zen2.0 with soft rubber rings without foams




Like this
http://s.aliexpress.com/U7rIfqIr


----------



## Decommo

damson said:


> klove4252 said:
> 
> 
> > The new musicmaker TKY2 just came in the mail. I'm still playing around with foams but so far so good.
> ...


 
 Me too. I am keen to get either Zen 2 or TKY2. If I understood ranking correctly, Zen 2 and TKY2 both are contender category?


----------



## audio123

decommo said:


> Me too. I am keen to get either Zen 2 or TKY2. If I understood ranking correctly, Zen 2 and TKY2 both are contender category?


 

 u cant go wrong with zen 2. it is totl.


----------



## Decommo

audio123 said:


> decommo said:
> 
> 
> > Me too. I am keen to get either Zen 2 or TKY2. If I understood ranking correctly, Zen 2 and TKY2 both are contender category?
> ...




Thank you. I actually prefer KKY2's look (metal vs plastic), lower impedance so easier to drive and lower price. If it goes toe to toe with Zen2's sound quality then this would be zen2 killer.


----------



## ld100

decommo said:


> Thank you. I actually prefer KKY2's look (metal vs plastic), lower impedance so easier to drive and lower price. If it goes toe to toe with Zen2's sound quality then this would be zen2 killer.


 
  
 Are you saying TKY2 is better than Zen 2 in your opinion?


----------



## klove4252

I have been traveling a lot this weekend, so I haven't been able t have an extensive listen. The fit is a bit weird for my ears, so I am trying to find the best foams to use or no foams at all. So far, the most comfortable option is no foams. They look a lot better than the zen 2.0 and they are much easier to drive. I have the Zen 2 black edition, so the SQ might be different than the normal Zen 2, but I'm not sure. 

I need more time with the TKY2 to make real comparisons, but the Zen 2 is better so far in terms of overall SQ. The TKY2 are very good though, and represent good value compared to the Zen 2 Black. The aspect I really have liked about the TKY2 so far is the instrument seperation. They have strong depth and clarity between the instruments. After listening for a few hours last night, I burned them in for only about 8 hours or so and there is a positive difference, so I believe this will continue to improve in SQ over time. For reference, all of my listening for the TKY2 has been with the Opus1.


----------



## Decommo

klove4252 said:


> I have been traveling a lot this weekend, so I haven't been able t have an extensive listen. The fit is a bit weird for my ears, so I am trying to find the best foams to use or no foams at all. So far, the most comfortable option is no foams. They look a lot better than the zen 2.0 and they are much easier to drive. I have the Zen 2 black edition, so the SQ might be different than the normal Zen 2, but I'm not sure.
> 
> I need more time with the TKY2 to make real comparisons, but the Zen 2 is better so far in terms of overall SQ. The TKY2 are very good though, and represent good value compared to the Zen 2 Black. The aspect I really have liked about the TKY2 so far is the instrument seperation. They have strong depth and clarity between the instruments. After listening for a few hours last night, I burned them in for only about 8 hours or so and there is a positive difference, so I believe this will continue to improve in SQ over time. For reference, all of my listening for the TKY2 has been with the Opus1.


 
  
 Thank you so much for sharing your impression. It is very helpful. How about bass? Is TKY2 has more bass than Zen 2?


----------



## kinetic758

decommo said:


> Thank you so much for sharing your impression. It is very helpful. How about bass? Is TKY2 has more bass than Zen 2?




I don't have my Zen 2 yet, but I would venture to say that no, the TKY2 does not have more low end. For me, the TKY2 has the least amount of bass/sub bass out of all my earbuds (Cygnus, Ting, Mojito, RX1, Monk+, KC08T). I've had about 20 hours on them so they're still room for some change. I may try some Hiegi foams to see if that helps some.


----------



## Decommo

kinetic758 said:


> decommo said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you so much for sharing your impression. It is very helpful. How about bass? Is TKY2 has more bass than Zen 2?
> ...


 
 It is very surprising to hear.... It has two DD inside so I expect that it would give great bass quantity. I guess that it requires good seal to bring up the bass. Since it has smooth metal finish, Hiegi foams might required to create necessary seals. Again, thank you for sharing your impression.


----------



## audio123

decommo said:


> It is very surprising to hear.... It has two DD inside so I expect that it would give great bass quantity. I guess that it requires good seal to bring up the bass. Since it has smooth metal finish, Hiegi foams might required to create necessary seals. Again, thank you for sharing your impression.


 

 u can wait for nirvana


----------



## Jtchua

Hi I am new to the forum but I been lurking for a few months, i have a few earbuds based on the forum's great recommendations. I have a zen v1 and would like to see if there are any interest for trade - to zen v2. PM me if there are any interest.


----------



## audio123

jtchua said:


> Hi I am new to the forum but I been lurking for a few months, i have a few earbuds based on the forum's great recommendations. I have a zen v1 and would like to see if there are any interest for trade - to zen v2. PM me if there are any interest.


 

 pls keep the zen v1. it is legendary.


----------



## Jtchua

Thanks for the recommendation. I am actually still very happy with my pk1 which has always been my daily driver.  The zen has too much bass for me, so want to check out zen 2.


----------



## audio123

jtchua said:


> Thanks for the recommendation. I am actually still very happy with my pk1 which has always been my daily driver.  The zen has too much bass for me, so want to check out zen 2.


 

 zen 2 black edition?


----------



## Jtchua

Just the normal zen v2 should be good - not sure if there is a big difference between black and normal.


----------



## Danneq

jtchua said:


> Thanks for the recommendation. I am actually still very happy with my pk1 which has always been my daily driver.  The zen has too much bass for me, so want to check out zen 2.  :atsmile:




If you prefer PK1 to Zen 1.0 I think that something like Musicmaker Ting or Rose Mojito will be closer to your preference than Zen 2.0. Or perhaps Shozy Cygnus...


----------



## Saoshyant

jtchua said:


> Just the normal zen v2 should be good - not sure if there is a big difference between black and normal.




It's a shame I'd have to buy a Zen 2 to be able to do that trade. I'd love to hear a Zen 1.


----------



## petan970

Musicmaker Ting and Shozy Cygnus have similar price. Is there someone who can compare sound quality of these two earbuds?


----------



## Jtchua

danneq said:


> If you prefer PK1 to Zen 1.0 I think that something like Musicmaker Ting or Rose Mojito will be closer to your preference than Zen 2.0. Or perhaps Shozy Cygnus...


 
  
 Thanks for the suggestions, I will still take if there are any takers on the trade to zen v2.  If not, I guess I have to purchase Ting first to try it out.  There are just so many choices.


----------



## Danneq

petan970 said:


> Musicmaker Ting and Shozy Cygnus have similar price. Is there someone who can compare sound quality of these two earbuds?


 

 Short comparison:

 Ting: "Cold" and slightly analytical sound. Great clarity and detail. No real tendency towards sibilance or harshness. Despite the slightly cold sound Ting is quite musical sounding.
 Cygnus: Warmer type of sound with good bass and great mids. Good soundstage and details although Ting might be the winner at these two. Cygnus is more engaging than Ting (at least to my ears).

 Both are great but it depends on your preference - more analytical and detailed sound or a warmer and more engaging sound...
  


jtchua said:


> Thanks for the suggestions, I will still take if there are any takers on the trade to zen v2.  If not, I guess I have to purchase Ting first to try it out.  There are just so many choices.


 

 PK1 has got a warmer type of sound compared to Ting. But I find the overall detail of upper mids/highs to be similar. Zen 2.0 is all about mids and bass...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

From a few pages back, here are a few more normal (No Minecraft Figurines) of *Wong Kuan Wae's DIY Earbud*:
  

  
  

  
 --


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Oh, I also have a *MusicMaker TYK2* on the way as well.  Can't wait to get my ears and camera on it. 
  
 --


----------



## petan970

danneq said:


> petan970 said:
> 
> 
> > Musicmaker Ting and Shozy Cygnus have similar price. Is there someone who can compare sound quality of these two earbuds?
> ...




Thanks a lot for your help. I prefer warmer sound so based on your description Cygnus seems better for me. 
Or is there some other option for me? I don't want any high impedance earbuds (should be less or equal 150 ohm, the less the better) and the earbuds should be available at Aliexpress.


----------



## vapman

Anyone familiar with the SWD2? Never heard them but a very gracious head fier is loaning me his set so i dont have to pay $101 to try them.

Petan the Cygnus is a great choice and warmer than the MM's in my opinion but still not the warmest bud out there and Cygnus can tend to sound aggressive at times.


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> I loved my old Sony E888LP from years ago. I tried the TY Hi-Z 32ohm recently, but it sounded like my MX500, which I never really liked.
> 
> Can anyone recommend a closest modern equivalent to E888LP?
> Are any NOS E888LP being sold?
> ...


 

 Sorry for not answering you sooner, but I wanted a little while to get used to the E888LP sound.
  
 Unfortunately for me, they do not like tons of bass boost, so I don't know if I will keep them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Narrow soundstage, ultra precise imaging, but not tons of sense of wide space. Very fast and crisp sound. Not a whole lot of bass, extremely clear midrange, great for vocals.
  
 To be honest the closest earbud I know to this sound is the Cygnus, but even Cygnus is notably different than the 888.  The 888LP is between the Cygnus and MX985 IMO. The Mx985 has more precise detailing, imaging and soundstage, but as others have said, the MX985 is a master of nothing, whereas I would call the 888LP a master of midrange and highs.
  
 I have to admit the E888LP has quite punchy bass but it does not go as deep or have as much impact as some other buds. And the case is friggen awesome. i love it. If the E888LP could handle more bass it would be a favorite for me. For non-bass heavy music, it might be one of the finest earbuds I own and have heard, in all honesty


----------



## jrazmar

Wish the upcoming VE Nirvana will be 32ohm at most. I tried to love the Zen 2.0 unamped but kept coming back to Cygnus or Edimun V3 for straight-out-of-the-dap listening enjoyment. Increasing the volume at high gain or headphone mode will just increase loudness and not the oomph or raw power if that makes sense. I'm not into stacking or amping. Btw, I'm playing out of my Cowon P1 and Esther M1Pro.


----------



## vapman

Sorry for the double post... Trying to recable these, finally got them open, but no idea which solder point to attach a new cable to. One is green and one is blue on each bud. Guessing blue is ground but who knows?

The cable is no longer intact or i would test with a multimeter.



The mic/remote part is still attached though. On one earbud, the green wire is connected to S+ and the blue wire to S-, so i wonder if it's like a passive speaker setup. On the other earbud, the blue seems to be attached to "RS" and the green seems to be attached to ground. So it is a little confusing.


----------



## mochill

888lp needs burn in, biocell baby. Posted a review on the HS groove


----------



## Rommel V

Have any of you tried using the sansa earbuds? Lately im been using this a lot and was thinking if someone tried recabling it.


----------



## vapman

mochill said:


> 888lp needs burn in, biocell baby. Posted a review on the HS groove


 

 How exactly does a nearly 15 year old earbud with tons of hours on it need burn in and what is that going to achieve?
  
 If it can't handle extreme bass boost, it can't handle extreme bass boost. Simple as that. No not even 9000 hours of burn in will turn a non bassy earphone into a sub cannon sorry to say.
  
 edit: The Sony 828LP is a weird one. Pretty quiet overall. I thought it needed amping, but when I started to turn it up it sounded all blown up. a weird one for sure... again not for bassheads. They are very comfy and fit great though.
  
 If anyone has hints on how to get that weird Sony Ericcson bud I posted above re-wired properly, I'll send them a set for free. I have 3 of these here. I might just take a cable and hope I get it right the first time.


----------



## golov17

Yep, if they are used all this time and do not sleep in a box ( years & years)


----------



## Tomasz2D

bloodypenguin said:


> From a few pages back, here are a few more normal (No Minecraft Figurines) of *Wong Kuan Wae's DIY Earbud*:


 
  
 Is it based on Qian 25 as mod platform? How does it sound?


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> Sorry for not answering you sooner, but I wanted a little while to get used to the E888LP sound.
> 
> Unfortunately for me, they do not like tons of bass boost, so I don't know if I will keep them
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the Cygnus/MX985 recommendation. Back around the turn of the century, E888LP, my Cassiopeia PDA & me were inseparable . It was either this or MX500 earbuds, so either lovely mids/highs with little bass(Sony) or banging bass that swamps the mids(Senn). I think your description of the sounds jibs with what I remember. Obviously, not a patch on current IEMs' performances, but they weren't quite available to public then (IIRC, I think Etymotics were the only IEMs then). Thanks.


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> Thanks for the Cygnus/MX985 recommendation. Back around the turn of the century, E888LP, my Cassiopeia PDA & me were inseparable . It was either this or MX500 earbuds, so either lovely mids/highs with little bass(Sony) or banging bass that swamps the mids(Senn). I think your description of the sounds jibs with what I remember. Obviously, not a patch on current IEMs' performances, but they weren't quite available to public then (IIRC, I think Etymotics were the only IEMs then). Thanks.




Always happy to help man. But keep one thing in mind: if you remember and miss the 888LP sound, you may not be happy with either of these. They are simply the two closest i know of that are readily available and not a j-cable. I like j-cables myself but plenty dont. The Cygnus has more bass than the 888 and not as smooth treble. The mx985 is closer in sound but lacks any sort of energy or life. The 888 is a nice in between area and has one of the coolest cases ever too.

The 888s weakness is it does not amp terribly well and does not take easily to heavy bass. It is superb with an amp but the bass is about as light as the auglamour rx1. 

If you really want the 888LP sound and dont listen to bass heavy music, buy a Hifiman ES100 and treat it well as they are known to get buzzy if you listen to lots of bassy stuff.


----------



## vapman

Sorry for overloading this thread with posts. But if anyone has a lead of a  Sony MDR-W50, please let me know!
  
 http://20cheaddatebase.web.fc2.com/SONY/MDR-W50.html
  
 This is the single most missed headphone I ever had. I owned it for over 10 years and never once had a problem getting glorious sound out of it. The headband kept the buds nice and in place.
  
 They were a dream. I am worried i ever find another pair though they'll still sound like ass compared to the monk. that said, then i could put monk on a headband... 
  

  
 I am making progress on my Sony Ericcson mod. I found some info from pinouts.ru that doesn't exactly match what i'm seeing, but I have a feeling I should be able to dupe it out regardless. I am very, very excited to see what these have to offer.


----------



## golov17

Some pics from ELI (Black Shozy)


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> Some pics from ELI (Black Shozy)


 

 New model or mod job!
 very interested!
 enjoying my monk very much for games and movie/tv watching


----------



## vapman

Guys i'll be selling a bunch of buds soon. The buds drawer is overflowing. not for sale yet but PM me for dibs on any of these .
 Please keep in mind this list is not set in stone.
  
 All will come with a never used set of foams
  
 1. Sennheiser MX985 (2nd owner, complete in box, like new)
 2. SeaHf 320 Smart 2.0, terminated to 2.5mm TRRS, with TRRS to 3.5mm TRS adapter
 3. Sony MDR 888LP (might go back on this... mids are TOO sweet)
 4. Sony MDR 828LP
  
  

 I think the survivors are Cygnus, Red De'mun and Monk stash.


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman How much would you want for the SeaHF?


----------



## Expansion

Please stop quoting previous posts when replying.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> New model or mod job!
> very interested!
> enjoying my monk very much for games and movie/tv watching


New, maybe 200 usd


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> New, maybe 200 usd


 

 Hmm, cygnus -> black cygnus like zen 2.0 -> zen 2 black edition?


----------



## klove4252

I just found the best fit for me for the TKY2. Thin Monk Expansion pack foams plus the white rubber ring. Very comfortable and there is a wide sound stage, depth, and clarity in the instruments. While using the LPG, the bass isn't as strong as the Zen 2, but they have a smooth and balanced sound with the LPG. I'm really enjoying these, and they seem to fit my preferences well.


----------



## Saoshyant

Glad you like it @klove4252 and I suspect the TKY2 will be too close to some earphones I have to be worth buying.  I hope the TP16 will be enjoyable, as it'll be my first Musicmaker earbud.


----------



## kurtextrem

klove4252 said:


> I just found the best fit for me for the TKY2. Thin Monk Expansion pack foams plus the white rubber ring. Very comfortable and there is a wide sound stage, depth, and clarity in the instruments. While using the LPG, the bass isn't as strong as the Zen 2, but they have a smooth and balanced sound with the LPG. I'm really enjoying these, and they seem to fit my preferences well.


 
 Would you say TKY2 sounds similar to Tomahawk?
 it may be the cheaper alternative to zen 2 for me, because I like buds with foams more than without...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

saoshyant said:


> Glad you like it @klove4252 and I suspect the TKY2 will be too close to some earphones I have to be worth buying.  I hope the TP16 will be enjoyable, as it'll be my first Musicmaker earbud.


 
  
 The TP16 is wonderful for the low price.  I hope you enjoy them as much as some off us already do.  
  
 --


----------



## Saoshyant

BloodyPenguin I'm sure something I listen to will be well suited for it. I just hope it's the majority of what I listen to.


----------



## music4mhell

bloodypenguin said:


> saoshyant said:
> 
> 
> > Glad you like it @klove4252 and I suspect the TKY2 will be too close to some earphones I have to be worth buying.  I hope the TP16 will be enjoyable, as it'll be my first Musicmaker earbud.
> ...


 
 TP16 is go to earbud on bike


----------



## Townyj

TP16 are rad!  look forward to hearing your thoughts.


----------



## damson

Does the black cygnus sound different than the original white ones?


----------



## Zero16

Hey guys, is rose mojito good for vocal and pop song?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

zero16 said:


> Hey guys, is rose mojito good for vocal and pop song?


 
 I would strongly advice against using the Mojito for such genres. They are not meant as an earbud for pop. For ballad and Jazz vocal.......I would say barely as they would make them sound "soulless".


----------



## audio123

zero16 said:


> Hey guys, is rose mojito good for vocal and pop song?


 

 no they are too analytical


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Taobao Link for Shozy Cygnus Bk (Upgrade of Cygnus White):
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.36.e8lJiN&id=537751451188&ns=1&abbucket=13#detail
  
 Currently all 25 of them has been sold out and the link is for pre-order with 30%off retail pricing (according to the seller)


----------



## Zero16

audio123 said:


> no they are too analytical



Can you give me some recommendation of earbud that have a good vocal and easy to direct


----------



## Ira Delphic

jant71 said:


> jamesbdh said:
> 
> 
> > Where does one get these?
> ...


 
  
I got a pair of *Sennheiser Adidas MX 680 refurb*, arrived today. The fit ("locking)"appears to be really good - I got them for running outdoors. Will try that out later this week. Sound is OK - nothing amazing and from initial test compared to Monk +, Monk + has much better sound. The MX 680 lacks bass, high end is tinny, BUT I only tried without the foam. The sound volume control works well. A very nice package for $15 but not something I'd listen to at home.


----------



## emptymt

jrazmar said:


> Wish the upcoming VE Nirvana will be 32ohm at most. I tried to love the Zen 2.0 unamped but kept coming back to Cygnus or Edimun V3 for straight-out-of-the-dap listening enjoyment. Increasing the volume at high gain or headphone mode will just increase loudness and not the oomph or raw power if that makes sense. I'm not into stacking or amping. Btw, I'm playing out of my Cowon P1 and Esther M1Pro.


 

 so Cygnus sounds better than zen 2.0 out of low powered sources(DAP, phone, laptop)?
 I'm actually looking to upgrade from monk+ and is looking to buy an earbud with excellent mids for casual music listening and all purpose use(watching video, games, etc).


----------



## boblauer

bloodypenguin said:


> The TP16 is wonderful for the low price.  I hope you enjoy them as much as some off us already do.
> 
> --


 
 Yep right now A/B-ing between them and Darth Monk+, so close will need to really listen intently to same source material with both to make a case either way. IMO can't go wrong with TP16 at their price.


----------



## kinetic758

klove4252 said:


> I just found the best fit for me for the TKY2. Thin Monk Expansion pack foams plus the white rubber ring. Very comfortable and there is a wide sound stage, depth, and clarity in the instruments. While using the LPG, the bass isn't as strong as the Zen 2, but they have a smooth and balanced sound with the LPG. I'm really enjoying these, and they seem to fit my preferences well.


 
  
 I swapped out the Monk+ thin foams and threw on the Hiegi full foams and I'm starting to warm up to the TKY2.  Agree that the soundstage, detail and clarity are great.  Still wish there was a touch more low end.  A great bud, nonetheless.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

emptymt said:


> so Cygnus sounds better than zen 2.0 out of low powered sources(DAP, phone, laptop)?
> I'm actually looking to upgrade from monk+ and is looking to buy an earbud with excellent mids for casual music listening and all purpose use(watching video, games, etc).


 
 yes. Cygnus is excellent mids and all purpose use. and yes it sounds better than zen 2 out of low powered source.


----------



## klove4252

kinetic758 said:


>


 
 They have really opened up more the more I listen, but the lack of the low end will put it a step below the Zen 2 and Mojito to me. They are also easier to drive than the Zen 2, which could make it easier for more people to choose the TKY2


----------



## Doori

zero16 said:


> Can you give me some recommendation of earbud that have a good vocal and easy to direct


 
 Shozy Cygnus


----------



## ozkan

Back in mod business 

Firstly I removed the thin foam from the back plate of the driver. You can see the small holes under the magnet. There was some kind of sponge around the plate. Then I used some cotton to replace the foam and twisted into the shape of the plate and put them back on.

With the mod above, the Monk gained more bass in both quality/quantity (especially subbass). Now it hits harder, faster and the peak in the lower treble region is minimal which sometimes sounded splashy in comparison to the stock Monk. The midrange is also clearer and a little bit thinner. When a/b'ing both Monk and cotton moded Monk, the stock Monk sounds muddy and a bit shouty in the midrange. Just wow! :eek:


----------



## vapman

About to list a complete in box MX985 on Classifieds here. If nobody here wants it in, say, half an hour, its going into the for sale section


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> Taobao Link for Shozy Cygnus Black:
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.36.e8lJiN&id=537751451188&ns=1&abbucket=13#detail
> 
> Currently all 25 of them has been sold out and the link is for pre-order with 30%off retail pricing (according to the seller)


 

 If anyone finds out how to order these to the USA let me know. I would love a black Cygnus.
  
 I just wrote a huge post about how much I love the Sony MDR-E838LP but hit the back button and it's all gone now. Basically I said they amp and handle heavy bass way better than the 888LP but are not as clear/smooth at the 888LP. The 888LP has to be one of the best buds out there for non-amping people. I will likely sell the 888LP (and miss it a ton) and keep the 838LP. The only part of the 838 i don't like is how the j-cable is a foot long total. It is in dire need of a recabling that doesn't force you to lay your head next to where your amp is.
  
 Really damned good for a 20+ year old earbud.
  
 http://20cheaddatebase.web.fc2.com/SONY/MDR-E838LP.html


----------



## FatTeemo

I have listened to the seahf 3.0 400 ohms for a few hours both off the modi multibit + project polaris combo as well as off my htc a9 phone. First impressions are that the bass and subbass on these are excellent. They make video game music, epic movie tracks and energetic songs sounds especially impactful. I wouldn't use these for sleep because they made my sleep music sound engaging instead of calming. However, I don't like it as much on classical or songs in which vocals are important because the vocals tend to blend into the background and the treble sounds damped. However, for the other genres that I mentioned, these really bring you into the music and creates an energetic/epic feeling. The soundstage is also quite big. These sound the best on my desktop system (sound is fuller and better soundstage), but as long as you turn the volume up on the htc a9 they still sound pretty good.


----------



## gwompki

Has anyone ever ordered directly from veclan.com? I ordered my Zen 2.0 straight from them so I could use PayPal. Im assuming they will email me tracking info but wasn't sure what to expect. Paid 4 bucks extra for ems shipping, but doubt that will really get it to the US much quicker.


----------



## vapman

gwompki said:


> Has anyone ever ordered directly from veclan.com? I ordered my Zen 2.0 straight from them so I could use PayPal. Im assuming they will email me tracking info but wasn't sure what to expect. Paid 4 bucks extra for ems shipping, but doubt that will really get it to the US much quicker.




Several times but never an issue. I always use epacket. It is not that much slower than ems but i dont know where you live in the world? In the usa it is a $10 or $12 difference for ems vs epacket. Epacket is more or less ems anyway. But yes buy from veclan with confidence.


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> Taobao Link for Shozy Cygnus Black:
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.36.e8lJiN&id=537751451188&ns=1&abbucket=13#detail
> 
> Currently all 25 of them has been sold out and the link is for pre-order with 30%off retail pricing (according to the seller)


 
  
 It isn't 'Shozy Cygnus Black', but 'Shozy BK'. It is not a Cygnus in black case but a new model intended as an upgrade over Cygnus.


----------



## music4mhell

clieos said:


> audionewbi3 said:
> 
> 
> > Taobao Link for Shozy Cygnus Black:
> ...


 
 What's the main difference between two sounds ?


----------



## emptymt

clieos said:


> It isn't 'Shozy Cygnus Black', but 'Shozy BK'. It is not a Cygnus in black case but a new model intended as an upgrade over Cygnus.


 
 how come I can't find this model in their official website, I think I'm gonna hold back from my purchase until further impressions of this exist


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> It isn't 'Shozy Cygnus Black', but 'Shozy BK'. It is not a Cygnus in black case but a new model intended as an upgrade over Cygnus.


 
 Wohoo! Sifu replied!

 Ah yes yes, I know that it is an upgrade. My mistake, the link is for Shozy BK. Though I seriously wonder how well they compare, judging by the Taobao page description, it is mentioned that the BK is basically an upgarded white in every aspect.


----------



## vapman

Hopefully they will be listed on Aliexpress sooner or later? No specific details yet on it?


----------



## emptymt

vapman said:


> Hopefully they will be listed on Aliexpress sooner or later? No specific details yet on it?


 

 I emailed penonaudio earlier bout the future availability, looks like shozy is in the process of ordering the parts needed to make the earbud.
 It won't be quick.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> Hopefully they will be listed on Aliexpress sooner or later? No specific details yet on it?


 
 For all we know now:
 High purity copper cable (8 strand, each strand has 26 filaments) 
 Japan Import Driver


----------



## audio123

Heavenly Sounds Earbuds are promising.


----------



## HairyHeadMara

Also hope that Shozy BK are available in both balanced and Single ended versions same as Cygnus.


----------



## emptymt

hairyheadmara said:


> Also hope that Shozy BK are available in both balanced and Single ended versions same as Cygnus.


 

 they do, if you google translate the taobao site and read everything, it has 2 termination types


----------



## ClieOS

music4mhell said:


> What's the main difference between two sounds ?


 


audionewbi3 said:


> Wohoo! Sifu replied!
> 
> Ah yes yes, I know that it is an upgrade. My mistake, the link is for Shozy BK. Though I seriously wonder how well they compare, judging by the Taobao page description, *it is mentioned that the BK is basically an upgarded white in every aspect.*


 
  
 ^ That is that only thing I know as well, that it is supposed to be an total upgrade over Cygnus.


emptymt said:


> how come I can't find this model in their official website, I think I'm gonna hold back from my purchase until further impressions of this exist


 
  
 That Taobao seller mentioned above is somewhat known as the main Shozy retailer in China and he seems to have very close relationship with Shozy owner. He has every Shozy models in his store before everyone else, sometime even before Shozy official announcement. I know he was selling at least 4 different Shozy models (including Zero and Cygnus) almost month before everyone else.


----------



## audio123

https://world.taobao.com/item/537751451188.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a1z3o.7695460.0.0.ozFAjM
  
 Shozy BK


----------



## haiku

For those who are interested, I just ordered the flagship earbud from K´s earphone. It´s 1.2 KOhm balanced earbud. Price 659,- USD.


----------



## Danneq

Spoiler: SAY WHAT!?!?!?!?!



Quote: 





haiku said:


> For those who are interested, I just ordered the flagship earbud from K´s earphone. It´s 1.2 KOhm balanced earbud. Price 659,- USD.


----------



## Fabi

haiku said:


> For those who are interested, I just ordered the flagship earbud from K´s earphone. It´s 1.2 KOhm balanced earbud. Price 659,- USD.



You did it ! 
The ultimate combo AK300 + AK amp + balanced K's 1.2k ohm !!!


----------



## Brian Coffey

haiku said:


> For those who are interested, I just ordered the flagship earbud from K´s earphone. It´s 1.2 KOhm balanced earbud. Price 659,- USD.


 
 Sounds very interesting. Looking forward to a review .


----------



## haiku

fabi said:


> You did it !
> The ultimate combo AK300 + AK amp + balanced K's 1.2k ohm !!!


 

 I´m so impressed by the 500 Ohm version, that´s why I have to know, how the best one sounds.


----------



## audio123

http://penonaudio.com/Earphones/earbuds/REMAX-305M
 new earbud


----------



## Tomasz2D

haiku said:


> For those who are interested, I just ordered the flagship earbud from K´s earphone. It´s 1.2 KOhm balanced earbud. Price 659,- USD.


 
 You will be in Guinness World Records book for sure


----------



## audio123

haiku said:


> For those who are interested, I just ordered the flagship earbud from K´s earphone. It´s 1.2 KOhm balanced earbud. Price 659,- USD.


 

 link please


----------



## Tomasz2D

audionewbi3 said:


> Taobao Link for Shozy Cygnus Bk (Upgrade of Cygnus White):
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.36.e8lJiN&id=537751451188&ns=1&abbucket=13#detail
> 
> Currently all 25 of them has been sold out and the link is for pre-order with 30%off retail pricing (according to the seller)


 
 I have contacted Shozy directly regarding this Taobao listing and how BK compares to Cygnus and this is their reply:
  
 "It is a test batch related to the new model coming up but it is not finalized. We will not talk about the difference yet but clearly it is a big leap"
  
 They also said that the final product release date is not known yet.


----------



## haiku

audio123 said:


> link please


 

 You have to contact the team at taobaocart.com directly. They only mention that version on the product page of the 600 Ohm earbud.
  
 http://www.taobaocart.com/product/534517858212/


----------



## music4mhell

audio123 said:


> http://penonaudio.com/Earphones/earbuds/REMAX-305M
> new earbud


 
 It's there from last 1.5 month !


----------



## audio123

music4mhell said:


> It's there from last 1.5 month !


 

 oh really LOL it looks new to me


----------



## golov17

haiku said:


> For those who are interested, I just ordered the flagship earbud from K´s earphone. It´s 1.2 KOhm balanced earbud. Price 659,- USD.


SGD?? or USD?


----------



## haiku

golov17 said:


> SGD?? or 483 USD?


 

 No, *USD!*


----------



## Saoshyant

Hmm, 659 for an earbud...  I really don't know what to expect from something like that.


----------



## gwompki

vapman said:


> Several times but never an issue. I always use epacket. It is not that much slower than ems but i dont know where you live in the world? In the usa it is a $10 or $12 difference for ems vs epacket. Epacket is more or less ems anyway. But yes buy from veclan with confidence.


 
 I decided to log back in to my account on the veclan.com webpage and noticed that there was a tracking number there.  Looks like its already en route to NY...that was fast!


----------



## vapman

God damn almost $700 for a set of earbuds. They better make the Mojito sound like crap in comparison for that kind of money, that's like STAX money right there...


----------



## Saoshyant

@vapman You know how much diminishing returns will play at that price difference tho, or at least most likely will.


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> @vapman You know how much diminishing returns will play at that price difference tho, or at least most likely will.


 

 Precisely this! I really do hope it's worth the $. Would love to read a review either way.


----------



## golov17

haiku said:


> No, *USD!*


----------



## boblauer

vapman said:


> Precisely this! I really do hope it's worth the $. Would love to read a review either way.


 
 At that price read yes buy no way.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

All hail our new king of high impedance bud, lord of SeaHF's Sir @haiku


----------



## haiku

saoshyant said:


> Hmm, 659 for an earbud...  I really don't know what to expect from something like that.


 

 Well, someone has to find out.


----------



## Saoshyant

I'd personally be more inclined currently to spend that on a dap.  Still unsure how much I want to spend there.  I wonder, with a 1.2K Ohm earbud, what balanced termination does it use?  There's certainly some variation for possibilities.


----------



## haiku

saoshyant said:


> I'd personally be more inclined currently to spend that on a dap.  Still unsure how much I want to spend there.  I wonder, with a 1.2K Ohm earbud, what balanced termination does it use?  There's certainly some variation for possibilities.


 

 I made it clear to the guys at taobaocart that I need a 2.5mm plug for my AK380 Amp.


----------



## Saoshyant

I wonder if something like an AK70 can drive it.  If it could, it'd provide a nicely portable setup.


----------



## ozkan

I would never ever spent $659 on an earbud, doesn't matter how good it sounds. Better to spend the money on a source.


----------



## haiku

ozkan said:


> I would never ever spent $659 on an earbud, doesn't matter how good it sounds. Better to spend the money on a source.


 

 Already done that. AK300/380 Amp.


----------



## haiku

saoshyant said:


> I wonder if something like an AK70 can drive it.  If it could, it'd provide a nicely portable setup.


 

 If it can, then yes, I think the combo might sound great.


----------



## Danneq

Sansa Clip+?


----------



## luckyeights

So if i were to buy a high end earbud with options in SE or balanced should i buy balanced and then just use an adapter to SE in case someday i buy a balanced dac/amp.  Or would it be better to just get the SE?  Right now i dont have any balanced sources but you never know someday i might get one.  I just figured it would probably be a pain to get it rewired and terminated for balanced if i just go with SE.


----------



## springbay

fatteemo said:


> Argh, aliexpress seller sent me the seahf 400 ohms instead of the 320 ohms that I ordered. I am trying to get an exchange or refund or something. In any case, if I am forced to keep this, how different is it from the 320 ohms?


 
  
 My LD3 400 and LD4 400 arrived today so I spent some time comparing them to the LD3 320 (and the Smart 1.0).
 I don't know if the window for you to make a complaint is till open, but the LD3 400 and LD4 400 are quite different from the LD3 320.
  
 First I must say, the Seahf buds comes with various foams and donuts, but I get better results with the MP+ foams.
  
 LD3 320 is the definite winner of clarity and detail when used with the MP+ thin foams. If you ordered the LD3 320 because of the clarity/detail, You should try to make a complaint.
  
 The Smart 1.0 comes next in clarity/detail, but they sound kind of hollow with the MP+ thin foams, so I just use the MP+ donuts on them.
  
 I also prefer the donuts with the LD3 400 and LD4 400. They don't sound as hollow as the Smart 1 with the MP+ thin foams, but need the donuts for the bass to come out. Neither the LD3 400 nor LD4 400 can compete in the clarity/detail with the 320 ohm buds.
  
 While the LD3 400 do provide kind of a devil bloated bass, the LD4 400 provide a more controlled a less boomy bass. The LD3 320 can also provide a deepened bass when used with donuts. Less boomy than the LD3 400, but not as controlled as the LD4 400.
  
 The winner for me is the LD3 320. They are the best all rounder, and can be used with both MP+ thin foams or donuts, depending on if you are looking for clarity/detail or bass.
  
 These are my early first impressions, and I'm not a firm believer in burn in, so I just wanted to let you know fast...


----------



## haiku

vapman said:


> God damn almost $700 for a set of earbuds. They better make the Mojito sound like crap in comparison for that kind of money, that's like STAX money right there...


 

 Let me be blunt. Here at my home, the K´s 500 Ohm already have no competitor. They just have a stunning resolution and sound much more mature than everything I´ve heard, so far. But ok, I don´t know the Mojito.


----------



## FatTeemo

What is the link for the K's 500?


----------



## haiku

fatteemo said:


> What is the link for the K's 500?


 
  
 http://www.taobaocart.com/Product/534582316342/


----------



## JASru

Have received the package with rx-1 and tomahawk from easy.The looks of rx-1! With white foams it looks so au-glamourous *ba-dum-ts*
I know a lot of people already reviewed these two so I won't bother writing a lot , but -to all newbies like me- rx-1 is a good way to go up from Monk+(imo). And it is quite affordable. And looks fancy. And the package is nice. *Collapses due to the new toy syndrome*


----------



## FatTeemo

springbay said:


> My LD3 400 and LD4 400 arrived today so I spent some time comparing them to the LD3 320 (and the Smart 1.0).
> I don't know if the window for you to make a complaint is till open, but the LD3 400 and LD4 400 are quite different from the LD3 320.
> 
> First I must say, the Seahf buds comes with various foams and donuts, but I get better results with the MP+ foams.
> ...




I worked out a deal with the seller in which I keep the 400 ohms snd buy another 320 ohms for half off. I might end up selling the 400 once the 320 arrives. They do sound quite fun though.


----------



## vapman

I listened to a Seahf 4.0 320ohm for a bit. Got it in a trade and have sold it and sent it off today, but not before I got a chance to get to know it.
  
 My mini review is it's like the Cygnus in tonality but has none of the energetic sound the Cygnus has. Everything sounds energetic on the Cygnus and it's why some people find it fatiguing. The Seahf was very laid back and had a nice soundstage. I found it to sound like the original Monks except a lot more dynamic and with better clarity and soundstage.
  
 I still prefer the Seahf 400. Another (and a different) very generous head-fi'er is sending me his 4.0 400ohm so I can compare it to the 3.0 which is the Seahf 400 I reviewed previously.
  
 It's fun how much stuff is passed around in this earbud group, so this post is a big thank you to all the cool people who share their gear!


----------



## Frederick Wang

This is exciting


----------



## vapman

Blox!

http://www.head-fi.org/t/730946/fs-brand-new-blox-be5-will-ship-worldwide


----------



## lescanadiens

Dear All,
  
 Sorry to hijack the thread, but if anybody is interested to sell me a good, working Sony MDR-E565, kindly let me know.
  
 Thanks!
  
 LC


----------



## ultimdan

Hi All,
       first of all, thanks for this wonderful thread, it is full of great info. After some reading, I got the upgraditis unfortunately. I currently own Yuin OK2 which I love, but I'm really interested in the new ToneKing/MusicMaker TKY2. Do you think it would be a worthwhile upgrade?
  
 Regards,
  
 Dan


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > God damn almost $700 for a set of earbuds. They better make the Mojito sound like crap in comparison for that kind of money, that's like STAX money right there...
> ...


 
 The thing is you don't have other company earbud compare to, it's only Seahf.
 If you can have VE Zen, Mojito, Cygnus, Ting then it will be super helpful to us.


----------



## haiku

music4mhell said:


> The thing is you don't have other company earbud compare to, it's only Seahf.
> If you can have VE Zen, Mojito, Cygnus, Ting then it will be super helpful to us.


 

 The thing is, I don´t want to convince anybody to buy them. I just thought some of you guys might have liked to know that such earbuds exist. Other than that, I was only answering questions. But thank you, now I know I don´t have to write a review.


----------



## Frederick Wang

Thank you @haiku for bringing K's to my attention, super intersted！


----------



## FatTeemo

haiku said:


> The thing is, I don´t want to convince anybody to buy them. I just thought some of you guys might have liked to know that such earbuds exist. Other than that, I was only answering questions. But thank you, now I know I don´t have to write a review.




I guess people are wondering why you don't try these other popular ones given you are willing to spend so much.


----------



## vapman

I just want to hear his impressions of the expensive one.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

What amp exists that would even power 1.2k Ohm headphones....:/


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> For those who are interested, I just ordered the flagship earbud from K´s earphone. It´s 1.2 KOhm balanced earbud. Price 659,- USD.


 
 Could you please share the link ?
  
 Thank you.


----------



## Nachash

What's the best that I can get for around $50 (hoping that I don't get charged by customs...) if I want clarity and details (and durability)? I'm gonna use a Magni 2 as an amp


----------



## tommo21

nachash said:


> What's the best that I can get for around $50 (hoping that I don't get charged by customs...) if I want clarity and details (and durability)? I'm gonna use a Magni 2 as an amp


 
 My favorite under $50 would be the Tomahawk. Cost around $42 when I bought it. It's my go to bud in my office with the Valhalla 2. I've also got the Zen 2.0 here, but still the Tomahawk gets the most use. I think with the Zen 2.0 the mids get a bit too thickwhen used on a tube amp.
  
 I also now required the Ting, but that needs burn-in but it's promising as well. That's a bit more expensive though. Cygnus and TY2 on the way as well. both priced around $80.
  
 Try the Tomhawk. Think it could work well with the Magni 2.


----------



## Nachash

tommo21 said:


> My favorite under $50 would be the Tomahawk. Cost around $42 when I bought it. It's my go to bud in my office with the Valhalla 2. I've also got the Zen 2.0 here, but still the Tomahawk gets the most use. I think with the Zen 2.0 the mids get a bit too thickwhen used on a tube amp.
> 
> I also now required the Ting, but that needs burn-in but it's promising as well. That's a bit more expensive though. Cygnus and TY2 on the way as well. both priced around $80.
> 
> Try the Tomhawk. Think it could work well with the Magni 2.


 

 Isn't the impedance a little too low for the magni?


----------



## tommo21

nachash said:


> Isn't the impedance a little too low for the magni?


 
 It works fine with high gain on the Valhalla 2,but not sure of how the difference in impedance between the Magni 2 and the Valhalla 2 would be like. There's also a difference between the Magni 2 and Magni 2 Uber in impedance.
  
 I believe though that the gain switch on the Magni's are better than that of the Valhalla 2. There's probably someone here with experience of this.


----------



## oopeteroo

Anyone have both rx-1 and tomahawk that can compare them ?


----------



## Townyj

oopeteroo said:


> Anyone have both rx-1 and tomahawk that can compare them ?




I had both a few weeks ago. Tomahawk has an awesome sound that suits most music types, they have fairly extended highs, warm midrange and fairly good lows. RX-1 have a forward midrange and good bass if you can get the proper seal, highs seem a little rolled off... bit more then i like to be honest. I highly prefer the Tomahawk. But id skip both and get the Cygnus or TP16.


----------



## Saoshyant

tayyab pirzada said:


> What amp exists that would even power 1.2k Ohm headphones....:/


 
 Schiit Jotunheim should most likely have no issue.  Seems like a powerhouse, and a rather cost effective one at that.  It's a tempting option to pick up.  Can run anywhere from very highly sensitive IEMs to Hifiman HE6.


----------



## oopeteroo

townyj said:


> I had both a few weeks ago. Tomahawk has an awesome sound that suits most music types, they have fairly extended highs, warm midrange and fairly good lows. RX-1 have a forward midrange and good bass if you can get the proper seal, highs seem a little rolled off... bit more then i like to be honest. I highly prefer the Tomahawk. But id skip both and get the Cygnus or TP16.


 I really want the cygnus but sadly I don't want to spend that much for an earbud as i only use them when I'm out. How is the TP16 ? Also I remember there was a crow/crown earbud with soft/textile cable. Anyone know where I can find it and how does it sound compare to the others ?

Also I just got the rx-1....but they sounds kinda metalish to me....Will it get better when burned in ? Also what foam do u guys use ?


----------



## Townyj

oopeteroo said:


> I really want the cygnus but sadly I don't want to spend that much for an earbud as i only use them when I'm out. How is the TP16 ? Also I remember there was a crow/crown earbud with soft/textile cable. Anyone know where I can find it and how does it sound compare to the others ?
> 
> Also I just got the rx-1....but they sounds kinda metalish to me....Will it get better when burned in ? Also what foam do u guys use ?




I prefer my TP16 to the RX-1  fit is better then both tomahawk and rx-1 aswell. The cable on the TP16 is very good.


----------



## kurtextrem

vapman said:


> I listened to a Seahf 4.0 320ohm for a bit. Got it in a trade and have sold it and sent it off today, but not before I got a chance to get to know it.
> 
> My mini review is it's like the Cygnus in tonality but has none of the energetic sound the Cygnus has. Everything sounds energetic on the Cygnus and it's why some people find it fatiguing. The Seahf was very laid back and had a nice soundstage. I found it to sound like the original Monks except a lot more dynamic and with better clarity and soundstage.
> 
> ...


 
 Hmmmm, would you say Cygnus is better than Seahf 3.0 400 Ohm? 
  
 also now the last thing we need to find out is, if the TY Hi-Z buds are really the same or not (but they have different frequency range - so should be different!)


----------



## Saoshyant

@Tayyab Pirzada Another route that might work for a 1.2K ohm earbud is something that's done with difficult to drive headphones like the Hifiman HE-6.  Some people drive that headphone using speaker taps, so you could easily put quite a bit of power into this earbud.  Imagine using speaker taps and the Pioneer SX-1980 (270 watts per channel)...  that seems like overkill, but could be amusing.  Also seems like a way to accidentally go deaf.


----------



## JASru

oopeteroo said:


> Anyone have both rx-1 and tomahawk that can compare them ?


 
 Have both right now. Arrived yesterday in one package.


oopeteroo said:


> I really want the cygnus but sadly I don't want to spend that much for an earbud as i only use them when I'm out. How is the TP16 ? Also I remember there was a crow/crown earbud with soft/textile cable. Anyone know where I can find it and how does it sound compare to the others ?
> 
> Also I just got the rx-1....but they sounds kinda metalish to me....Will it get better when burned in ? Also what foam do u guys use ?


 
 Can't say about burn in but I use it with thin foams ( not donut ones). I guess rx-1 isn't an all-rounder. It sounds really fantastic with ambient and minimal-trance, but completely sucks when you try something with a lot of instruments overlapping each other (glitch and orchestral). The tomahawk has more narrow stage, but seems to be more adaptive, while sometimes bass is too much ( it is rare though).
 Anyway, that's just day one impressions, this may change.


----------



## teston

So I bought the she3800 the 3rd time to see how it performs (the previous ones was more than 2 years ago, my taste has changed much since then)
 I have to admit that it sounds good for its price, especially with pop and vocals.
 It has more bass than the monk, the mid is thicker and lush, treb is a bit recessed and roll off compare to monk, but is quite smooth and non fatigue. The bass on monk is faster, tighter, has more control and better texture, mid is more detailed, a little thin and dry compare to she3800. And the treb on monk is definitely better. The monk has wider soundstage and better seperation.
 For me, ve monk is a better all rounder buds, while the she3800 is fun and sounds very good with pop, vocals. Both have very good p/p 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Cheers.


----------



## sharkz

I will finally get my Monks today from Massdrop after about 6 weeks. They left the warehouse 30 miles away one week ago and I am just receiving them today. Gotta love DHL. I can't wait to finally see what the hype about these is. 
  
 Vapman, did you ever get your Edimuns? I think you were one of the few who could compare them to the Red Demuns. I'm interested in a high "mid" tier bud. Not sure I want to step up to the Zen II right now, especially since it seems the Demun is already pretty close.


----------



## Tomasz2D

sharkz said:


> I'm interested in a high "mid" tier bud. Not sure I want to step up to the Zen II right now, especially since it seems the Demun is already pretty close.


 
  
 High "mid" tier bud? Three weeks have already passed since I got my Red De'mun and this is my favorite bud among all that I own. But be careful, this is not the kind of easy bud like Monk - loved by millions. I think many may dislike it actually.


----------



## sharkz

Can you quantify that? What kind of music are you listening to mostly? My big thing is mostly rock music, mostly well produced progressive, not much classical, and not much of what I would call "female audiophile".


----------



## golov17

Baby Mojito: a beautiful sound, but prone to hiss..


----------



## Willber

golov17 said:


> Baby Mojito: a beautiful sound, but prone to hiss..


 
 Interesting covers.


----------



## golov17

willber said:


> Interesting covers.


too


----------



## Willber

I like the look of all of them, can you get them separately?


----------



## golov17

willber said:


> I like the look of all of them, can you get them separately?


 http://www.head-fi.org/t/329311/review-the-big-yuin-comparison-pk-series-ok-series/60#post_12850140


----------



## Willber

Excellent, I missed that post. Thanks.


----------



## vapman

kurtextrem said:


> Hmmmm, would you say Cygnus is better than Seahf 3.0 400 Ohm?
> 
> also now the last thing we need to find out is, if the TY Hi-Z buds are really the same or not (but they have different frequency range - so should be different!)




The Cygnus and seahf 400 3.0 are considerably different. The 400 is more laid back seeming on account of more relaxed treble and mids. Has much deeper bass thsn the cygnus though. The cygnus is not all that bassy really

sharkz my edimun v3 is scheduled for a monday delivery


----------



## Tomasz2D

sharkz said:


> Can you quantify that? What kind of music are you listening to mostly? My big thing is mostly rock music, mostly well produced progressive, not much classical, and not much of what I would call "female audiophile".


 
 My music profile http://www.last.fm/pl/user/Tomasz2D
  
 I already tried to describe Red De'mun in my earlier posts. I don't claim this is the best bud ever but this is the one that gets the most play time. If I could create some competition categories for earbuds Red De'mun would be the winner of:
  
 Best analitical earbuds category.
 Best sound resolution earbuds category.
  
 There have been some allegories to cars in this thread already. For me Red De'mun is like this very sporty car, that is not very comfortable, suspension is stiff,  loud, cabin is small, usage is limited but once you know how to handle it you will love it.
 Red De'mun just appeals to my personal preferences, the music I listen to and my preferable way to listen to music - stationary, in quiet enviroment, focused 100% on music - analitical way. Red De'mun is not the best choice for (even because of cable stiffness) "walk to work" earbud.


----------



## golov17

Burn, baby's


----------



## vapman

I like that little MP3 player.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> I like that little MP3 player.


me too


----------



## ld100

golov17 said:


> Baby Mojito: a beautiful sound, but prone to hiss..


 
  
 What buds are those?


----------



## rggz

ld100 said:


> What buds are those?


 

 Moondrop (水月雨) VX Pro


----------



## damson

golov17 said:


> Baby Mojito: a beautiful sound, but prone to hiss..


 
 How's the sound signature? Is the performance comparable to Cygnus?


----------



## ld100

*Category 2: THE CONTENDER*
 

*MrZ (MusicMaker / Toneking) TY2*
  
 Anyone noticed that?


----------



## kinetic758

ld100 said:


> *Category 2: THE CONTENDER*
> 
> 
> *MrZ (MusicMaker / Toneking) TY2*
> ...


I would actually agree with that placement but, for me, that's only with mild bass boost on with the TY2. Without it, the bass is too anemic for me. Goes to show that your music choices play a huge role in preferences (I don't listen to classical at all).


----------



## golov17

damson said:


> How's the sound signature? Is the performance comparable to Cygnus?


 Cygnus is a comfortable vintage analog sound, as opposed to armature signatures from Pro with a pure HF as RX-1 on steroids, to lovers. 16 Ohm too.


----------



## ld100

kinetic758 said:


> I would actually agree with that placement but, for me, that's only with mild bass boost on with the TY2. Without it, the bass is too anemic for me. Goes to show that your music choices play a huge role in preferences (I don't listen to classical at all).


 
  
 How are they with vocals? I am really into vocals. Pop, house and some rock. What do you think?


----------



## kinetic758

ld100 said:


> How are they with vocals? I am really into vocals. Pop, house and some rock. What do you think?




Vocals are nice. More intimate than Mojito, yet not completely imbalanced and in your face. Soundstage is also impressively deep.


----------



## music4mhell

ld100 said:


> *Category 2: THE CONTENDER*
> 
> 
> *MrZ (MusicMaker / Toneking) TY2*
> ... 
 I ordered after looking this list, 20 days back


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> The Cygnus and seahf 400 3.0 are considerably different. The 400 is more laid back seeming on account of more relaxed treble and mids. Has much deeper bass thsn the cygnus though. The cygnus is not all that bassy really
> 
> sharkz my edimun v3 is scheduled for a monday delivery


yep


----------



## ld100

ld100 said:


> I know this is not the most appropriate place to ask, but since I am using earbuds a lot I want to hear what people think who use earbuds as well... What is a good DAC/AMP combo to get in a reasonable price range? Does not have to be portable. I want to use it with my computer mostly... Something that sounds good and look good? Seems that ODAC is a good way to go, but is there anything else you guys can suggest?


 
  
 Anyone?


----------



## golov17

ld100 said:


> Anyone?


 http://hifimediy.com/DACs


----------



## vapman

Fiio E18 or sound blaster e5 both great if you dont need tons of power. If you dont have big power hungry over ears theyll be fine. I had a e5 and sold it but currently use a e18.


----------



## JASru

golov17 said:


> Burn, baby's


offtop/ it is hippo gumstick, right?


----------



## mebaali

jasru said:


> offtop/ it is hippo gumstick, right?


 
 Nationite N2 
  
 edit: hippo gumstick too, look the same.


----------



## golov17

jasru said:


> offtop/ it is hippo gumstick, right?


----------



## vapman

Great, now i can find it on ali


----------



## golov17

http://s.aliexpress.com/uMzAJ3UR


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Great, now i can find it on ali











 rare


----------



## vapman

haha, yup, noticed it's not for sale anywhere... X_X


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman I've been looking for an N2 for a couple years, no luck so far.


----------



## JASru

saoshyant said:


> @vapman I've been looking for an N2 for a couple years, no luck so far.


 
 Is it worth looking for it for so long?


----------



## golov17

jasru said:


> Is it worth looking for it for so long?


yep


----------



## Zero16

Is tky2 good for vocal and pop song?


----------



## Saoshyant

JASru I love the convenience small daps offer, so the N2 is one I'd love to try.


----------



## audio123

the new tp32 sounds better imo


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> the new tp32 sounds better imo


better than..?


----------



## Brian Coffey

Hope this is where I should ask this.Has anyone here sourced their own shell/driver/cable with good results. I'm thinking of trying to make my own 300 Ohm bud.


----------



## haiku

edit


----------



## audio123

golov17 said:


> better than..?


 

 the version 1 of tp 32


----------



## audio123

TY HI Z HP 32 Straight Jack
 smooth, organic, prominent mids
 TY HI Z HP 32 Angled Jack
 mids are more transparent and detailed


----------



## Willber

audio123 said:


> TY HI Z HP 32 Straight Jack
> smooth, organic, prominent mids
> TY HI Z HP 32 Angled Jack
> mids are more transparent and detailed


 

 Similar bass?


----------



## audio123

willber said:


> Similar bass?


 

 ard the same the new one is tighter


----------



## Willber

audio123 said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Similar bass?
> ...


 
 Thanks, I'll give them a try.


----------



## audio123

willber said:


> Thanks, I'll give them a try.


 

 here you go mate
 http://penonaudio.com/Earphones/earbuds/TY-Hi-Z-HP-32


----------



## Willber

audio123 said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks, I'll give them a try.
> ...


 
 Thanks, I just ordered them from here, they are cheaper:
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/TY-Hi-Z-HP-32-32ohm-HiFi-Earbuds-Earphone/1994049_32676147271.html


----------



## robervaul

audio123 said:


> TY HI Z HP 32 Straight Jack
> smooth, organic, prominent mids
> TY HI Z HP 32 Angled Jack
> mids are more transparent and detailed


 
 Just a plug to improve the sound?


----------



## Ira Delphic

robervaul said:


> audio123 said:
> 
> 
> > TY HI Z HP 32 Straight Jack
> ...


 
  
 I think ergonomics - angled preferred for use with portables and smart phones.


----------



## ozkan

saoshyant said:


> vapman I've been looking for an N2 for a couple years, no luck so far.




It is the same as Cube C30 but I cannot find it either. I had one and sold. It was powerful as hell.


----------



## base08

So new tunning? HCK's Jim said same driver used...


----------



## audio123

robervaul said:


> Just a plug to improve the sound?


 

 try it to believe it.


----------



## rggz

Hi guys, sorry for the off-topic. I've just created a thread about a scam case involving an active user in this thread. Also, he is constantly announcing his earbuds around on this thread, so please, stay alert!

 http://www.head-fi.org/t/820309/head-fi-member-vapman-scammer


----------



## audio123

rggz said:


> Hi guys, sorry for the off-topic. I've just created a thread about a scam case involving an active user in this thread. Also, he is constantly announcing his earbuds around on this thread, so please, stay alert!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/820309/head-fi-member-vapman-scammer


 

 thank you. cheers!
 we must alert @Brooko on this.


----------



## ClieOS

rggz said:


> Hi guys, sorry for the off-topic. I've just created a thread about a scam case involving an active user in this thread. Also, he is constantly announcing his earbuds around on this thread, so please, stay alert!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/820309/head-fi-member-vapman-scammer


 
  
 Seem like you might not be the only victim in the forum. It will be quite sad to see such an old timer here going down the dark path. I hope you'll get your stuff back.


----------



## mebaali

rggz said:


> Hi guys, sorry for the off-topic. I've just created a thread about a scam case involving an active user in this thread. Also, he is constantly announcing his earbuds around on this thread, so please, stay alert!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/820309/head-fi-member-vapman-scammer


 
 Just gone through your thread. Honestly, felt very bad for your experience.
  
 I hope you get the rightful compensation one way or the other, soon.


----------



## Danneq

I still hope to see the moddediPod Mini that I traded my pink Kenwood Mediakeg DAP for. Vapman's (already) selling the Kenwood and I have seen no trace of any iPod Mini yet...

 Vapman, I am willing to give you the benefit of doubt.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

This is all so strange.  Vapman has always been so cool.  I've dealt with him a few times.
  
 I mentioned this on the other thread, but he sent me his T-Music Earbuds and a cool CD to me a few days ago for free.
  
 ..


----------



## sharkz

I've been on Head-fi for a while now, admittedly with quite a few long breaks though. Unfortunately this isn't the first time I've been really involved with a thread that this has happened in and I'm sure it won't be the last time. I hope this all gets resolves smoothly.


----------



## luckyeights

Maybe split personality disorder?   One personality is nice and helpful and sends and trades stuff normally and his other personality is evil and likes to steal and sell other peoples things?  Most likely not the case but who knows iv never dealt with him directly before but always come across his posts and he seems nice and typically helpful.  Maybe hes just very forgetful or has a lot of bad luck shipping things?


----------



## ClieOS

@vapman has already responded to the complaint, so hopefully it will all be resolved soon.


----------



## vapman

I have responded there and am regretful it's there in the first place. Sorry for making it go off topic everyone.


----------



## vapman

I received a loaner set of Sunrise earbuds and a TY 400 ohm of the latest version. Ill be sure to post a comparison to my seahf 400 ohm 3.0 as well as impressions of the Sunrise.


----------



## Saoshyant

luckyeights said:


> Maybe split personality disorder?   One personality is nice and helpful and sends and trades stuff normally and his other personality is evil and likes to steal and sell other peoples things?  Most likely not the case but who knows iv never dealt with him directly before but always come across his posts and he seems nice and typically helpful.  Maybe hes just very forgetful or has a lot of bad luck shipping things?




Please don't even jokingly suggest that. You obviously don't understand the severity and rarity of that kind of affliction.


----------



## Rommel V

Is there anyone who knows who can recable my sansa clip earbuds?


----------



## vapman

rommel v said:


> Is there anyone who knows who can recable my sansa clip earbuds?




There are people in north america and europe who would definitely do the work for you but, after positive experiences with demun, i sent a sony erricson bud to them to recable. They are in indonesia and shipping back to other countries is about 35 bucks.

Note its not actually delivered to them yet so i cant speak for custom recable jobs yet but if it goes well i want to send them my sz2000.


----------



## Rommel V

vapman said:


> There are people in north america and europe who would definitely do the work for you but, after positive experiences with demun, i sent a sony erricson bud to them to recable. They are in indonesia and shipping back to other countries is about 35 bucks.
> 
> Note its not actually delivered to them yet so i cant speak for custom recable jobs yet but if it goes well i want to send them my sz2000.


 can you send me their website...


----------



## luckyeights

Actually I do know.  Iv worked with mentally ill and so have 2 other of my family members.  The thing is, it was a harmless joke sorry you cant understand that.
  
 Anyway to get back on topic I got my Auglamour RX-1s in the mail yesterday and so far im not all too impressed with them.  They seem very "digital" sounding and they dont have very good bass response either.  But they do have good detail.  I wish they had the sound signature of the monks and keep the detail of the rx-1 then they would be perfect.


----------



## Frederick Wang

vapman said:


> yes my Edimun v3 rhodium is finally out of customs...
> 
> I was just thinking, it's likely that the Philips has the same driver as the H180. We should/can investigate this


 
 The Edimun is out of customs 17 days ago, so I assume you already have it, right?


----------



## vapman

frederick wang said:


> The Edimun is out of customs 17 days ago, so I assume you already have it, right?


 
   
 Unfortunately it is not out of customs yet! I misunderstood a tracking update. Will post as soon as i have it, should be any day now. @Tayyab Pirzada and
@Danneq Both own Edimun V3 to my knowledge.
  
 Quote:


rommel v said:


> can you send me their website...


 
 https://www.facebook.com/demuncustomcable/?fref=ts


----------



## FatTeemo

If my financial situation doesn't improve over the next several months I might have to sell my desktop system. :c. If that happens which earbud do you guys think is most similar to the hd 800?


----------



## Frederick Wang

vapman said:


> Unfortunately it is not out of customs yet! I misunderstood a tracking update. Will post as soon as i have it, should be any day now. @Tayyab Pirzada and
> @Danneq Both own Edimun V3 to my knowledge.


 
  
 Looking forward to your impressions. 
  
 ----
  
 I ordered a pair of Edimun V3 with Bmac amp 13 days ago, and there is no further shipping information ever since. I am gonna cancel that order just for the time being, but I don't exclude the possibility to choose between a Red De'mun and Edimun sometime in the coming months.
 But for now, I'm seriously tempted by the K's 500 ohm. The amp I have is an Aune B1, which cannot even power Seahf 400 ohm well. I'm considering a mojo, would that be a good choice?


----------



## vapman

frederick wang said:


> Looking forward to your impressions.
> 
> ----
> 
> ...





Why cancel the edimun/bmac order? I know they just shipped a ton of stuff going overseas. Do keep in mind everything they sell is built-to-order, so it might have taken about a week for them to put it all together... will post my impressions for sure when they it gets here =)

PS Red Demun is sold by Demun, not Bengkel.
Edit: yes mojo drives em fine.


----------



## Frederick Wang

vapman said:


> Why cancel the edimun/bmac order? I know they just shipped a ton of stuff going overseas. Do keep in mind everything they sell is built-to-order, so it might have taken about a week for them to put it all together... will post my impressions for sure when they it gets here =)
> 
> PS Red Demun is sold by Demun, not Bengkel.


 
 It's just been too long. When I ordered them, they all listed as available on their webpage, but almost two weeks without update, and Iriyan wasn't able to reply my last emails in 3 days, I started to have concerns.


----------



## vapman

If you used the contact page on the site, that is broken, i have been communicating with them over BBM. They do know about the email problem but its unfortunate they havent fixed it yet


----------



## Frederick Wang

vapman said:


> If you used the contact page on the site, that is broken, i have been communicating with them over BBM. They do know about the email problem but its unfortunate they havent fixed it yet




No, i communicated with him via his personal gmail.


----------



## vapman

frederick wang said:


> No, i communicated with him via his personal gmail.


 

 Ah sorry to hear that man :[ I suppose you could try pm him on site here.
 PS if you didn't see in my earlier post, i edited to say Mojo can drive the high impedance buds just fine.


----------



## chart54

​My taobao shipping agent 's just received Shozy BK balanced from the taobao seller.
 They will delivery to me next week.


----------



## vapman

BTW initial impressions of a TY Hi-Z 400 4.0 vs a Seahf 3.0 400 ohm...
  
 Just as hard to drive.
 The TY doesn't have as deep or full sub bass as Seahf 3.0.
 More mid centric than the Seahf 3.0 is.... not terribly hard to do.
 Treble seems rougher.
 Sub & mid bass response can be kind of weak.
  
 I didn't do too much sub bass slamming on these since it doesn't sound like it takes it as well as the Seahf does. So it's a good thing the Seahf 3.0 is still readily available, if you are interested in a less mid centric, more bass heavy bud, that's when i'd go for the 3.0 Seahf. It has a surprisingly thin sound. It also sounds kind of congested, extremely narrow & closed soundstage, not airy at all.


----------



## Danneq

frederick wang said:


> Looking forward to your impressions.
> 
> ----
> 
> ...


 


 I waited a little over 1 month (Yeah, my patience is pretty long). But that was with Ramadan included, which is celebrated in Indonesia, during which time orders might be delayed. One or two weeks after Ramadan had ended I reminded Iriyan over e-mail and then it just took 2-3 days before he sent the Edimun V3 to me.

 They had some problem getting white Edifier housings so he used black ones for my pair. I certainly do not complain about that...


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> BTW initial impressions of a TY Hi-Z 400 4.0 vs a Seahf 3.0 400 ohm...
> 
> Just as hard to drive.
> The TY doesn't have as deep or full sub bass as Seahf 3.0.
> ...


agree with your opinion


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> I waited a little over 1 month (Yeah, my patience is pretty long). But that was with Ramadan included, which is celebrated in Indonesia, during which time orders might be delayed. One or two weeks after Ramadan had ended I reminded Iriyan over e-mail and then it just took 2-3 days before he sent the Edimun V3 to me.
> 
> 
> They had some problem getting white Edifier housings so he used black ones for my pair. I certainly do not complain about that...


cool


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> agree with your opinion


 

 Now demoing *Sunrise SWD2*
 http://penonaudio.com/Sunrise%20/Sunrise-SW-DragonII(SWD2)SR120
 I like it a lot more already.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Now demoing *Sunrise SWD2*
> http://penonaudio.com/Sunrise%20/Sunrise-SW-DragonII(SWD2)SR120
> I like it a lot more already.


hmm..


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> hmm..


 

 Not sure if it's worth $101, but its' quite nice.
 Reminds me of Asura 2.0, but more neutral and linear sound signature... but not lifeless like Hifiman ES100.
 Personally I find it extremely similar to Sony MDR-E838, but with a more neutral sound signature, a little less exciting, but airier & more wide soundstage.
 I will keep listening, but I know I like my MDR-E838 a little more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 J-cable is cool!
  
 http://20cheaddatebase.web.fc2.com/SONY/MDR-E838LP.html


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Not sure if it's worth $101, but its' quite nice.
> Reminds me of Asura 2.0, but more neutral and linear sound signature... but not lifeless like Hifiman ES100.
> Personally I find it extremely similar to Sony MDR-E838, but with a more neutral sound signature, a little less exciting, but airier & more wide soundstage.
> I will keep listening, but I know I like my MDR-E838 a little more
> ...


Edimun forever  
Yesterday I was listening to my old SHE3800 foamless, it is still very good, especially for intimate vocal Patricia Barber


----------



## justvinh

chart54 said:


> ​My taobao shipping agent 's just received Shozy BK balanced from the taobao seller.
> They will delivery to me next week.


 
 does the TRRS balanced work with normal unbalanced source with phone out?


----------



## vapman

justvinh said:


> does the TRRS balanced work with normal unbalanced source with phone out?


 

 Would need a TRRS to TRS adapter for an unbalanced source


----------



## Saoshyant

justvinh You'll need an adapter. There are some inexpensive ones if your IEM doesn't already come with one.


----------



## justvinh

Thank you for the information. I know there are a few balanced sources with a variety range of balanced connections like 2.5 trrs, 3.5 trrs and 4 pin XLR, is there a difference between them and is the sound significantly better than unbalanced or not?


----------



## vapman

justvinh said:


> Thank you for the information. I know there are a few balanced sources with a variety range of balanced connections like 2.5 trrs, 3.5 trrs and 4 pin XLR, is there a difference between them and is the sound significantly better than unbalanced or not?


 

 A lot of people who try the same gear balanced vs unbalanced tend to like balanced. Whether or not it is actually better is up for debate. Scientifically it is better because balanced connections were designed to reduce noise and it makes sense for each channel having its own ground to have better sound than a common ground for both.
  
 As for balanced connections - no difference in sound whatsoever between any of them. Just different terminations as there is no widely accepted standard. but with that said 2.5mm trrs is the closest to standard there is, with 4 pin xlr being more common on desktop gear.


----------



## justvinh

vapman said:


> A lot of people who try the same gear balanced vs unbalanced tend to like balanced. Whether or not it is actually better is up for debate. Scientifically it is better because balanced connections were designed to reduce noise and it makes sense for each channel having its own ground to have better sound than a common ground for both.
> 
> As for balanced connections - no difference in sound whatsoever between any of them. Just different terminations as there is no widely accepted standard. but with that said 2.5mm trrs is the closest to standard there is, with 4 pin xlr being more common on desktop gear.


 
 Thank you that's really helpful


----------



## vapman

Anyone else here using Cygnus for video games? I have found them to have superior channel distinction to other earbuds I have, at least of my low impedance ones.
 I had been using H180 or Monk for a long time on games, was really surprised at how much better Cygnus was at spatial separation.


----------



## kurtextrem

vapman said:


> A lot of people who try the same gear balanced vs unbalanced tend to like balanced. Whether or not it is actually better is up for debate. Scientifically it is better because balanced connections were designed to reduce noise and it makes sense for each channel having its own ground to have better sound than a common ground for both.


 
 Wait, I thought balanced means no stereo?
  


vapman said:


> Anyone else here using Cygnus for video games? I have found them to have superior channel distinction to other earbuds I have, at least of my low impedance ones.
> I had been using H180 or Monk for a long time on games, was really surprised at how much better Cygnus was at spatial separation.


 
 Yes, here! Imho Cygnus > Asura 2. Not sure where to put RX-1, it's somewhere in between if the fit is good.
 however, I'm still looking for an upgrade for gaming... Zen 2 comes into the mind of course, but I like foams for longer gaming sessions...


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> Anyone else here using Cygnus for video games? I have found them to have superior channel distinction to other earbuds I have, at least of my low impedance ones.
> I had been using H180 or Monk for a long time on games, was really surprised at how much better Cygnus was at spatial separation.




I use Cygnus for everything when unamped tbh


----------



## chart54

You need an adapter from 2.5 trrs to 3.5 trs.


----------



## vapman

kurtextrem balanced can do stereo, it is when you plug a balanced device into an unbalanced device you might only get sound from one side.


----------



## jamesbdh

slightly off topic but does anyone have a recommendation for small earbud for sleeping.   I sleep on my side and my normal earbuds can hurt sometimes.


----------



## vapman

jamesbdh said:


> slightly off topic but does anyone have a recommendation for small earbud for sleeping.   I sleep on my side and my normal earbuds can hurt sometimes.


 
 have you tried cygnus? smallest i know of, aside from lyra perhaps


----------



## FatTeemo

Can confirm that the cygnus is very good for sleeping. It's why I originally ordered it. However, now that I got a memory foam pillow, it doesn't matter so much.


----------



## springbay

jamesbdh said:


> slightly off topic but does anyone have a recommendation for small earbud for sleeping.   I sleep on my side and my normal earbuds can hurt sometimes.


 
  
 If you need something for sleeping, you should not use regular buds, but Hush
 https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hush/hush-the-worlds-first-smart-earplug/description
 It doesn't play music though, just calming sounds to filter out every day (night) noise.
 I've been using them every night since they arrived half a year ago.


----------



## vapman

I just realized I never posted this pic of the Sunrise and the TY Hi-Z 400s!
  

  
 I have to admit i was disappointed in the 400s after the Seahf 400 3.0, it just didn't stand out in any way over other competition. The Sunrise SWD2 was kind of like a more neutral and linear sounding Asura 2.0.
  
 My Candy monks and last HCK order should be in tomorrow or Monday.


----------



## golov17

What is it??


----------



## vapman

even copying the massdrop monk color scheme.... kinda funny
 maybe they will be the 32ohm again, those seem to be the most popular?


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> even copying the massdrop monk color scheme.... kinda funny
> maybe they will be the 32ohm again, those seem to be the most popular?


maybe..


----------



## vapman

Is TY bug guy or just seahf?


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Is TY bug guy or just seahf?


no idea


----------



## haiku

vapman said:


> Is TY bug guy or just seahf?


 

 Bug Guy is just Seahf afaik.


----------



## gwompki

Is there a general consensus on which foams/foam combo are best for the monk plus?  I finally got a couple of sets from the recent massdrop.  I think so far my best experience has been with the light foams they come with.  I've tried naked, double light foams and Heigi Donut foams as well.  The Heigi's brought my RX-1 to life but I don't think they are a good match for the monk personally...a little too woofy for me.  I wish massdrop had given the option to get the expansion pack so I could have some of the monk donut foams.
  
 Regardless, I'm amazed at the price to value ration on these.  Such a great bud.  I can't wait to get my Zen!


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> What is it??




TY HP-650, 650ohm.


----------



## Willber

gwompki said:


> Is there a general consensus on which foams/foam combo are best for the monk plus?  I finally got a couple of sets from the recent massdrop.  I think so far my best experience has been with the light foams they come with.  I've tried naked, double light foams and Heigi Donut foams as well.  The Heigi's brought my RX-1 to life but I don't think they are a good match for the monk personally...a little too woofy for me.  I wish massdrop had given the option to get the expansion pack so I could have some of the monk donut foams.


 
 I don't find a lot of difference between Monk+ and Hiegi donuts - both a similar thickness and quality.


----------



## base08

clieos said:


> TY HP-650, 650ohm.



Nice to see you ClieOS more active on the discussion and thank you for bringing to the light, the absolute budget gem, the Auglamour RX-1... Helped my productivity on my work, listening to beautifully detailed and lively pieces of classical goodness. Just for €17...


----------



## kurtextrem

gwompki said:


> Is there a general consensus on which foams/foam combo are best for the monk plus?  I finally got a couple of sets from the recent massdrop.  I think so far my best experience has been with the light foams they come with.  I've tried naked, double light foams and Heigi Donut foams as well.  The Heigi's brought my RX-1 to life but I don't think they are a good match for the monk personally...a little too woofy for me.  I wish massdrop had given the option to get the expansion pack so I could have some of the monk donut foams.
> 
> Regardless, I'm amazed at the price to value ration on these.  Such a great bud.  I can't wait to get my Zen!


 
 Have you ordered Zen 2 regardless of that it isn't designed for foam use?


----------



## gwompki

Yep understood that zen doesn't sound the best with foams but have heard the monk shines with correct foams


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> TY HP-650, 650ohm.


woow, thanks


----------



## jamesbdh

springbay said:


> If you need something for sleeping, you should not use regular buds, but Hush
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hush/hush-the-worlds-first-smart-earplug/description
> It doesn't play music though, just calming sounds to filter out every day (night) noise.
> I've been using them every night since they arrived half a year ago.


 
 I am not sure I can do that.  I have a baby at home so have to be somewhat aware of what is going on.


----------



## Fabi

jamesbdh said:


> I am not sure I can do that.  I have a baby at home so have to be somewhat aware of what is going on.



You can take a look at this
http://aftershokz.com/


----------



## ozkan

jamesbdh said:


> slightly off topic but does anyone have a recommendation for small earbud for sleeping.   I sleep on my side and my normal earbuds can hurt sometimes.




Sennheiser mx80 is ideal for one side sleeping however not as good sounding as the Monk.


----------



## golov17

ozkan said:


> Sennheiser mx80 is ideal for one side sleeping however not as good sounding as the Monk.


very well for sleeping too


----------



## ozkan

My moded Monk outperforms the stock ones in every single area and put them to shame.


----------



## Saoshyant

@ozkan The only modded Monk I've heard is a quite impressive vocal earbud, I was quite surprised when I heard it.


----------



## Willber

jamesbdh said:


> slightly off topic but does anyone have a recommendation for small earbud for sleeping.   I sleep on my side and my normal earbuds can hurt sometimes.


 
 The SHE3800 has quite a slim profile and I find it more comfortable lying down than buds with the MX500 shell (Monk+, TY Hi-Z, etc).


----------



## vapman

I haven't been able to find a seller for the SHE3800 outside of the UK. I might not be looking hard enough is all...
  
 Got a lot of China mail coming in today. Boarseman MX98s, Qian39, Seahf 32 ohms, Candy Monk!
  
 Ty Hi-Z 32 not here yet cause I bought it Singapore Mail not ePacket...


----------



## haiku

Ok guys, I´ve found my love for my Seahf earbuds, again. I´ve almost been to the point where I wanted to sell them all, but then I had to find the answer, why the love has gone? I remembered that it all started when I got my AK Combo (300 Dap/380 Amp). At the time I already had my K´s earphone 500 Ohm earbuds, which didn´t match well with my Fiio X7, so I purchased the AK´s. The AK´s and the K´s are a match made in heaven sq wise, but whenever I wanted to listen with one of my Seahf, they sounded horrible with the AK´s. Only today I had the thought, that maybe the Seahf simply have more synergy with my X7. And that is correct. When I heard the first tone with the X7 + AM2A + LD-4.0 400 Ohm it was just "Oooohhhh Yeah....!!". Fiio and Seahf have an excellent synergy (especially with the AM2A amp module, wow! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) Now I´m a happy bunny with my "Seahf Harem", again.


----------



## vapman

@haiku Do you still hate the Seahf 32 ohm?


----------



## haiku

vapman said:


> @haiku Do you still hate the Seahf 32 ohm?


 

 Didn´t spend much time with them, so far. Will report back asap, right now I have too much fun with the LD-4.0 400 Ohm!


----------



## vapman

haiku said:


> Didn´t spend much time with them, so far. Will report back asap, right now I have too much fun with the LD-4.0 400 Ohm!


 

 No rush man. Mine will be here in a few hours 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Just so I have the facts straight, you already own k's 500 ohm, and have the 1.2kOhm on order?


----------



## haiku

vapman said:


> No rush man. Mine will be here in a few hours
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yup, I own the 500 Ohm, but unfortunately had to cancel the deal with the 1.2KOhm. The team at taobaocart said, that the process of building the 1.2KOhm would take 20 days (custom built), and once they´ve sent them on their way, I wouldn´t be allowed to return them or to ask for a refund if something goes wrong. That was just too risky for 700,- USD incl. shipping.


----------



## vapman

haiku said:


> Yup, I own the 500 Ohm, but unfortunately had to cancel the deal with the 1.2KOhm. The team at taobaocart said, that the process of building the 1.2KOhm would take 20 days (custom built), and once they´ve sent them on their way, *I wouldn´t be allowed to return them or to ask for a refund if something goes wrong. That was just too risky for 700,- USD incl. shipping. *


 
 That's messed up!!!
 I don't blame you.


----------



## haiku

vapman said:


> That's messed up!!!
> I don't blame you.


 

 Yeah, that was an absolute deal-breaker for me.


----------



## Saoshyant

I was really curious how it'd sound.  Even if I could justify $700, I'm unsure if anything I have could properly drive them.  I'd have to most likely get an amp just for those.  Not willing to help if a VERY expensive earbud dies is just poor business.


----------



## gwompki

Holy crap! Just got My Zen 2.0 exactly 7 days after ordering to the south east US... That is insanely fast. Ems shipping was very reasonable. Can't wait to spend some time with them. VE rules.


----------



## ld100

*MrZ (MusicMaker / Toneking) TY2*
 
Can someone who has them already do some kind of review? I am interested in dual driver and wondering if they are worth getting...


----------



## Fabi

haiku said:


> Yup, I own the 500 Ohm, but unfortunately had to cancel the deal with the 1.2KOhm. The team at taobaocart said, that the process of building the 1.2KOhm would take 20 days (custom built), and once they´ve sent them on their way, I wouldn´t be allowed to return them or to ask for a refund if something goes wrong. That was just too risky for 700,- USD incl. shipping.


 
 Oh no!
 There's still the 600 ohm version


----------



## ozkan

saoshyant said:


> @ozkan
> The only modded Monk I've heard is a quite impressive vocal earbud, I was quite surprised when I heard it.




Was it cable modded Monk? How was the detail retrieval of the midrange and the bass?


----------



## Saoshyant

@ozkan Yes, it was cable modded.  To me the bass felt fairly neutral in the balancing, but there are certainly bassier earbuds out there, like the SeaHF 320 I recently bought from @vapman as well as the Edifier H180P.  Details to my ears were fairly strong, andl instruments in an orchestral piece were easy enough to distinguish, but not at the level of something like the Rose Mojito.  For me, the closest comparison would by the Shozy Cygnus, and it might have had very slightly more lifelike vocals...  it's really too close to tell for me.  I'm sure someone with more discerning ears could make the decision on that.


----------



## ozkan

I improved the mod since I posted them a few pages back. Now they shine with better detail, resolution in the midrange and bass. The mod also decreased the mid-bass which was blurring the midrange. After hearing the modded Monk there is no way going back to the stock Monk for me.


----------



## jant71

Mid-bass blurring the mid-range was my biggest gripe with them. My fix was plugging in the BGVP "A" cable which did it nicely, IIRC.


----------



## ozkan

jant71 said:


> Mid-bass blurring the mid-range was my biggest gripe with them. My fix was plugging in the BGVP "A" cable which did it nicely, IIRC.




Did your BGVP-A cable also broaden the soundstage and quicken the bass?


----------



## jant71

Gave the illusion as things were more spaced out and tighter(and yep making the notes tighter did quicken it up) but not really bigger to the outer edges more than better separation and room inside it. 
  
 The"C" did make the stage bigger but did not tighten the bass as much but "C" with the right(read cleaner) EQ setting did.
  
 I felt depending on source, "A" plus an already audiophile voiced/more neutral source is doubling down and a bit much perhaps. Then perhaps "C" might be the choice or even "B".
  
 Course, I no longer have the Monk and was doing some foam changes along with it at times so the dang combos are many so it is hard to get a handle/keep track(w/o writing it down) sometimes  though I think they worked fairly well and I heard the absolute best out of the Monk using them in some combo or other.


----------



## ballog

ozkan said:


> I improved the mod since I posted them a few pages back. Now they shine with better detail, resolution in the midrange and bass. The mod also decreased the mid-bass which was blurring the midrange. After hearing the modded Monk there is no way going back to the stock Monk for me.



How did you improve the mod bro?


----------



## musicday

I own the Monk+ earbuds and they sound great out of the Tera Player.
Anyone have any experiences with the best sounding earbus with the Tera Player, money no object?
Been told Zen 2.0 but i haven't tried.


----------



## ozkan

ballog said:


> How did you improve the mod bro?




Well, first I removed the dampening foam material behind the driver and replaced with 2 pcs of earphone foam which I cut exactly the same size as the stock material. Lastly added some cotton on top of them and put them back on. That's it mate!


----------



## Willber

ozkan said:


> ballog said:
> 
> 
> > How did you improve the mod bro?
> ...


 
 When you say 'earphone foam' is that foam earbud covers? If so, thick or thin? I'd like to give this a try.


----------



## mochill

fatteemo said:


> If my financial situation doesn't improve over the next several months I might have to sell my desktop system. :c. If that happens which earbud do you guys think is most similar to the hd 800?


heavenly sound concerto


----------



## ozkan

willber said:


> When you say 'earphone foam' is that foam earbud covers? If so, thick or thin? I'd like to give this a try.




Yeah thick black earbud covers. You should bro


----------



## Willber

ozkan said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > When you say 'earphone foam' is that foam earbud covers? If so, thick or thin? I'd like to give this a try.
> ...


 
 Great, thanks. I have multiple Monk+ (x4), Hi-Z 32 (x3) and SHE3800 (x3) so I can do comparisons.


----------



## ozkan

willber said:


> Great, thanks. I have multiple Monk+ (x4), Hi-Z 32 (x3) and SHE3800 (x3) so I can do comparisons.




But this is for Monk. I've also modded the Monk+ and you'd better replace the foams only. 

And don't glue the foams. Just place them on the back of the driver.


----------



## Fabi

ozkan said:


> Well, first I removed the dampening foam material behind the driver and replaced with 2 pcs of earphone foam which I cut exactly the same size as the stock material. Lastly added some cotton on top of them and put them back on. That's it mate!


 
 Damn, I wanna try it now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Would it be okay with putting donut foams inside or too large?


----------



## FatTeemo

mochill said:


> heavenly sound concerto


 
  
 Problem is that I can't find any reviews, price information, or even how to buy it.


----------



## Willber

ozkan said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Great, thanks. I have multiple Monk+ (x4), Hi-Z 32 (x3) and SHE3800 (x3) so I can do comparisons.
> ...


 
 Ah, OK. But I'll try different configurations on each.


----------



## ozkan

fabi said:


> Damn, I wanna try it now
> Would it be okay with putting donut foams inside or too large?




Donuts could be too thick I don't know. You should try and decide yourself whether it is worth it or not. On my side it definitely worth the try.


----------



## Fabi

Yep I'll try it tomorrow


----------



## Willber

> Yep I'll try it tomorrow


 
 I shall wait...


----------



## ozkan

fabi said:


> Yep I'll try it tomorrow




Is yours Monk or Monk+? Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the mod.


----------



## Doori

ozkan said:


> But this is for Monk. I've also modded the Monk+ and you'd better replace the foams only.
> 
> And don't glue the foams. Just place them on the back of the driver.



I did the same with blue (left) and red (right) extra pack foam, but in order to use coton, I used the rest of each foam, cut in small pieces.


----------



## Fabi

ozkan said:


> Is yours Monk or Monk+? Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the mod.


 
 Monk
 Hmm it seems I don't have cotton at home 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 lol


----------



## ozkan

doori said:


> I did the same with blue (left) and red (right) extra pack foam, but in order to use coton, I used the rest of each foam, cut in small pieces.




That won't give the same effect exactly. I tried all the possible mods and found out the cotton works the best with 2 layers of foam Btw, how did you find the sound?


----------



## Doori

ozkan said:


> That won't give the same effect exactly. I tried all the possible mods and found out the cotton works the best with 2 layers of foam Btw, how did you find the sound?



I also try with cotton but, probably, I used too much: that's killed the bass. I also try to make many hole, but I didn't find any progress.
Now, with one ring of thin foam and the rest, cut in small pieces in the Earbud, I found the sound clearer, bass a little bit tighter, and the voices more front of. And it seems to have a larger soundstage. In fact, a mix between Monk and Monk+.

(Sorry for my english)


----------



## JASru

Guys I am looking into getting edimun v3 rho, can someone tell, what is their impedance? I wanna use then on ap100 unamped. Will that be enough?


----------



## mochill

fatteemo said:


> mochill said:
> 
> 
> > heavenly sound concerto
> ...


https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=123476048091834&tsid=0.5131283873990717&source=typeahead


----------



## Brian Coffey

concerto isn't listed..


----------



## kfarndog

gwompki said:


> Yep understood that zen doesn't sound the best with foams but have heard the monk shines with correct foams


 
 After trying numerous foam / ring configurations, I really have become accustomed to all of the VE earbuds without any foams.  Good amplification and source really seems to do wonders for the Zen 2 and the Monk + Candies.  The regular Monk + remains a little shouty, but nothing a little equalization can't overcome.  BUT, I have smaller ears and it works that way for me.


----------



## vapman

China mail is HERE!!!

Boarseman mx98s
Seahf 32 ohm
qian39
Candy Monk

Probably will start with boarseman (blaming springbay) then candy then seahf then qian39.

Be back in a while with impressions


----------



## golov17

jasru said:


> Guys I am looking into getting edimun v3 rho, can someone tell, what is their impedance? I wanna use then on ap100 unamped. Will that be enough?


32 Ohm


----------



## vapman

Seahf 32ohm has really big bass but sharp treble. Some EQ might make this a winner.
  
 Candy Monk was awesome of course but going to the Seahf 32 is like switching on a bass boost.  might be a good gaming bud too...


----------



## tintheman

Hello, has anyone tried Meizu EP21HD? Looks good...


----------



## golov17

tintheman said:


> Hello, has anyone tried Meizu EP21HD? Looks good...


good with 3-button remote, but 128 Ohm


----------



## tintheman

Thanks golov, do you use with any foam? The monks thin one?


----------



## tintheman

Also golov, have you tried the VIVO X510? I like the vivo XE 800 in-ear, so assuming this vivo earbud might be good too...


----------



## golov17

tintheman said:


> Thanks golov, do you use with any foam? The monks thin one?


foamless better for me


----------



## golov17

tintheman said:


> Also golov, have you tried the VIVO X510? I like the vivo XE 800 in-ear, so assuming this vivo earbud might be good too...


not tried them


----------



## vapman

I like Boarseman MX98s a lot so far.... strong clear treble, but otherwise warm, energetic like Cygnus indeed... not much bass but it goes surprisingly deep. Not smooth but not detailed either though... might be new gaming earbud.
  
 Undecided on Seahf 32ohm. Have not tried Qian39 yet.


----------



## haiku

Seahf shoot-out LD-4.0 32Ohm/LD-3.0 400Ohm/LD-3.0 320 Ohm
  
 Player Fiio X7 with AM2A amp module (8 - 92.000Hz), Tracks from the Yes Album "Time and a Word" (24/192)
  
 32Ohm vs 400 Ohm
  
 While the 32Ohm is clearly the brighter sounding, it is also more "lightweight" in terms of sound quality. The bass while being fast paced, isn´t anywhere near the brutal power of the 400. The 32 Ohm always seems to be "short of breath" compared to the 400Ohm, which really enjoys the 420mw the AM2A module is able to deliver. Yes, the 400Ohm has more recessed highs, but it helps to create a much bigger soundstage. All in all, I enjoy the 400Ohm much more.
  
 32 Ohm vs 320Ohm
  
 The 320Ohm to me sits between the 32Ohm and the 400Ohm. It´s brighter than the 400Ohm, but also bassier than the 32Ohm. Bass is very punchy compared to the 32Ohm, while it´s faster with the 32Ohm. The soundstage is bigger with the 320Ohm, but I prefer the soundstage of the 400Ohm to the other two. 
  
 The music with the 32/320Ohm sounds also much more "compressed" than with the 400Ohm. The 400Ohm delivers a "full - bodied" presentation of the music, which is way ahead of the other two imo. That´s not to say the 32Ohm isn´t enjoyable, but if you have kit which is able to deliver plenty of power, the 400Ohm just shines brightly. What an earbud!


----------



## kurtextrem

Nice review! By the way, did you confuse something? On Aliexpress there's only LD-4.0 with 400 Ohm


----------



## haiku

kurtextrem said:


> Nice review! By the way, did you confuse something? On Aliexpress there's only LD-4.0 with 400 Ohm


 

 Nope, but I guess these days you can get the LD-3.0 400Ohm only on taobao.


----------



## gwompki

kfarndog said:


> After trying numerous foam / ring configurations, I really have become accustomed to all of the VE earbuds without any foams.  Good amplification and source really seems to do wonders for the Zen 2 and the Monk + Candies.  The regular Monk + remains a little shouty, but nothing a little equalization can't overcome.  BUT, I have smaller ears and it works that way for me.




Thanks! I spent several hours last night trying different configurations on the Zen and eventually took everything off and listened without any foams or rings. Awesome just as it is.


----------



## kurtextrem

haiku said:


> Nope, but I guess these days you can get the LD-3.0 400Ohm only on taobao.


 
 Wait what?
 On Aliexpress there is only one LD-4.0 which is 400 Ohm, LD-3.0 400 Ohm, LD-3.0 320 Ohm and LD-3.0 150 Ohm.


----------



## haiku

kurtextrem said:


> Wait what?
> On Aliexpress there is only one LD-4.0 which is 400 Ohm, LD-3.0 400 Ohm, LD-3.0 320 Ohm and LD-3.0 150 Ohm.


 




 You mean, there are LD-3.0 400 Ohm available on ali? Good to know.


----------



## jamesbdh

like vapman I got mine yesterday.  I got the saehf 150 and 400, boarsmen x98s, and quian 25.  Should have the tp16 Monday.  OOTB i like all of them but the seahfs seem a bit echoy but seeing in use does anything.


----------



## haiku

jamesbdh said:


> like vapman I got mine yesterday.  I got the saehf 150 and 400, boarsmen x98s, and quian 25.  Should have the tp16 Monday.  OOTB i like all of them but the seahfs seem a bit echoy but seeing in use does anything.


 

 Maybe you have a more bright sounding amp, which is no good combination with Seahf. The amp should also provide enough oomph to bring out the excellent bass of the 150 and 400. With just a smartphone or a Dap they more often than not are way underpowered.


----------



## mochill

brian coffey said:


> concerto isn't listed..


message Joshua winsu from heavenly sound, he should have them.


----------



## Fabi

ozkan said:


> Well, first I removed the dampening foam material behind the driver and replaced with 2 pcs of earphone foam which I cut exactly the same size as the stock material. Lastly added some cotton on top of them and put them back on. That's it mate!


 
 Okay, I tried the mod.
 Before doing the mod, I listened to former Monk for some time and found it echoish, mid-bass is bloated and bleeded on midrange, treble can be peaky at times.
  
  
 First, after I removed the foam inside, I cut a donut foam in 2 pieces and put a half on each side of earbuds and closed the shells. And I tried it with my dap.
 I felt that bass was less bloated and less bleeding on midrange, so midrange is airier, treble still a little peaky. It gave me already some satisfaction.
  
  
 Then, well, let's add some cotton on it!

 So I put cotton on the half donut foam on circle and gave it a try.
 Less bloated bass, it is not bleeding on midrange now, I can feel the bass is more deep, tight and textured but it has less quantity now.
 Less echoish, midrange is airier, before that the bass bleeding has made the impression of narrow soundstage, now I can breath! I can hear the beautiful airy vocals!
 Treble still a bit peaky but less than before.
 Overall, it has more balanced sound than before.
  
  
 Well okay, it's sounds good but I felt that we can do even better with it, so I put more cotton on it.

 Now I find it has very good balanced sound for my liking.
 Bass is more tight and textured, it has less quantity, bassheads may not like it, midrange is more detailed and sounds more natural, OMG the bass has ruined it before, treble is slightly less peaky and I like it but still sounds a little unnatural at times.
 Overall it sounds rather balanced, a little mid-centric, echo is only very slightly noticeable, it sounds more opened.
 Compared with other balanced sound earbuds, for me TY 32 still has the edge on this modded Monk but Monk is very very close behind.
 Also with these different variants of this mod, I have to increase dramatically sound volume.
  
  
 Thanks Ozkan for suggesting this mod, for me it's no way back to former Monk.
 Everyone can try it to see if they would like it. As you can see, I'm a total noob on this and it worked well with me.
 Two days ago, I didn't even know that we can open earbuds' shell so easily LOL.
  
 Now I am working on modding my ESW10JPN but to take some foam off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It was pretty cool today.
 Thanks ozkan brother, the wizard of Oz haha


----------



## jamesbdh

haiku said:


> Maybe you have a more bright sounding amp, which is no good combination with Seahf. The amp should also provide enough oomph to bring out the excellent bass of the 150 and 400. With just a smartphone or a Dap they more often than not are way underpowered.


 
 I did test quickly with my phone but I have the monoprice desktop amp in use now and xduoo xd-05 for portable.


----------



## haiku

jamesbdh said:


> I did test quickly with my phone but I have the monoprice desktop amp in use now and xduoo xd-05 for portable.


 

 The xd-05 should do the job.


----------



## kurtextrem

Today I found out that I have 2 different donut foams. One has thicker material, so it somehow worsens the fit for me. Cygnus definitely needs the thin for me.


----------



## golov17

VX Pro better than..


----------



## mochill

Glad to hear


----------



## golov17

mochill said:


> Glad to hear


buy it!


----------



## mochill

How is it to the VE Zen 2


----------



## golov17

mochill said:


> How is it to the VE Zen 2


 too different beasts..
 This is the closest to Rose Mojito


----------



## ozkan

fabi said:


> Okay, I tried the mod.
> Before doing the mod, I listened to former Monk for some time and found it echoish, mid-bass is bloated and bleeded on midrange, treble can be peaky at times.
> 
> 
> ...




Haha thank you bro. Glad to hear that you liked the modded Monk. 

I compared my modded Monk to RE0 and while the bass hits harder and deeper on the* RE0 with JVC Spiral Dots tips,* the midrange is more airy and less bloated on the modded Monk. For treble RE0 wins hands down of course but it can a bit tiring for long listening sessions.

Actually there is less mid-bass but more subbass and it is way more controlled, detailed and faster than the former Monk. So the bass gets more balanced with the mod.

@Willber now it is your turn mate.


----------



## mochill

golov17 said:


> mochill said:
> 
> 
> > How is it to the VE Zen 2
> ...


no need then☺


----------



## Tomasz2D

Today I tried to A/B compare Boarseman MX98 (now for about $20) vs MX98s (now for about $30).  Although there is a price difference between these two models (MX98s is pricier than MX98) it doesn't mean that one is better than the other. I would say that both models offer the same sound quality level but just presented in a different way. So here we have pretty similar situation as with Ostry KC08 vs. KC08T. The same "sound bricks" have been used but they have been moved a bit here and there to built different "sound structures" in MX98 and MX98s.
  
 Still I claim, that MX98s (and now also MX98) are closer to Cygnus in general character and much further from Monk/Monk Plus. So both MX98 and MX98s offer pretty balanced "analog" sound (lows/mids/highs balance) and on warmer side.
  
 So the main differences beetwen MX98 and MX98s are:
 - MX98 is slightly more v-shaped than MX98s,
 - MX98 offers slightly stronger and deeper bass than MX98s,
 - MX98 has more airy and wider sounstage than MX98s,
 - in MX98s soundstage is moved a bit forward while in MX98 you are more inside the sound.
  
 MX98 is more laid-back bud (better for contemporary genres) than more balanced MX98s with more forward soundstage (better for classical).


----------



## vapman

Seahf 32 let me down, its just too thin and razor sharp sounding. Qian39 surprised me with its clear, full tone. Boarseman mx98s is a baby cygnus and stays at my games computer!


----------



## Tomasz2D

jamesbdh said:


> slightly off topic but does anyone have a recommendation for small earbud for sleeping.   I sleep on my side and my normal earbuds can hurt sometimes.


 
 This may interest you. Chinese DIY maker of these buds do not give them proper names so let's just call this model Dark Horse Sleeping. These are very tiny buds but with surprisingly huge and nice sound (for their size). They are for about $12 but you would have to use TaoBao agent:
  
https://www.bhiner.com/taobao-agent/524663724541
  
 Here are pictures showing Monk, Cygnus and Dark Horse Sleeping.


----------



## vapman

Those look cool. Any reason to get them aside from form factor?


----------



## jant71

No offense but don't like the look of them. Don't get along with buds with short and thin stems as they tend to move esp. due to the cable and fit is far from stable for me.


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> Those look cool. Any reason to get them aside from form factor?


 
 I think you would want them for the form factor mainly. They are very light, you just don't feel that you wear them. Sound is very nice, v-shaped, delicate, extended with big soundstage - but this is kind of sound that you will find in other buds already.
 But this is something for you from the same maker - Dark Horse BASS:
  
https://www.bhiner.com/taobao-agent/533815794642


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> I think you would want them for the form factor mainly. They are very light, you just don't feel that you wear them. Sound is very nice, v-shaped, delicate, extended with big soundstage - but this is kind of sound that you will find in other buds already.
> *But this is something for you from the same maker - Dark Horse BASS:*
> 
> *https://www.bhiner.com/taobao-agent/533815794642*


 
 Thanks for both the answer and the bass bud suggestion!
  
 I'm hoping this will finally be the DIY MX500 inspired bud that can boom bass like a Seahf 400 3.0


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

What seller do you guys recommend for the Shozy Cygnus? Want to get one to compare to my Zen 2.0.


----------



## jamesbdh

tomasz2d said:


> This may interest you. Chinese DIY maker of these buds do not give them proper names so let's just call this model Dark Horse Sleeping. These are very tiny buds but with surprisingly huge and nice sound (for their size). They are for about $12 but you would have to use TaoBao agent:
> 
> https://www.bhiner.com/taobao-agent/524663724541
> 
> Here are pictures showing Monk, Cygnus and Dark Horse Sleeping.


 
 interesting.  My wife didn't mind a bluetooth speaker but if that changes, that is interesting.


----------



## Fabi

Ouch new earbuds in the updated ranking..


----------



## Raketen

zombiewinegum said:


> What seller do you guys recommend for the Shozy Cygnus? Want to get one to compare to my Zen 2.0.




Haven't ordered from them myself yet, but PenonAudio seem to have a good rep around head-fi..


----------



## springbay

zombiewinegum said:


> What seller do you guys recommend for the Shozy Cygnus? Want to get one to compare to my Zen 2.0.


 

 The one with the lowest price on AE for the day. You should not pay top dollar for the Cygnus with the current competition.


----------



## vapman

springbay said:


> The one with the lowest price on AE for the day. You should not pay top dollar for the Cygnus with the current competition.


 

 Seconded. This is what I always do and no issues yet, except for the remax RM305M that did not show up, but Team Remax has determined the RM303 is better anyway...
  
 edit: Actually considering this comment I have to emphasize how close the MX98s is to the Cygnus...
  
 edit 2: I have to say I enjoy the Qian39 for a sub $10 bud. No mids but great bass


----------



## magitka27

Hello head-fi 

Let me introduce myself, i'm agit from indonesia 

Currently my setup is fiio x1 + fiio q1 as amplifier , radius nhr21 is my iem now

But im interested to join the train of earbud hype by ordering seahf 150 ohm LD 3.0 from a local seller here , oh god i dont want to check my wallet now, as its empty now xD

Can i ask a question? I surfed a lot of pages backward and cant find about "earbud burn in" . Do i have to "burn-in" the seahf ? Bcs the seller recommend me to burn it for 100hrs ,

Fyi i got the seahf for IDR 365000 including direct shipping to my house, is it too pricey / expensive?


----------



## vapman

magitka27 said:


> Hello head-fi
> 
> Let me introduce myself, i'm agit from indonesia
> 
> ...


 

 IMO if burn in really has any effect it is in the first couple hours of use..... for drivers this small i believe more in psycological than physical burn in. it is not like large drivers which have  a spider...
  
 that is about $27, a good price IMO


----------



## music4mhell

magitka27 said:


> Hello head-fi
> 
> Let me introduce myself, i'm agit from indonesia
> 
> ...


 
 I feel some burn in hours do change the sound for sure from my past EXP.
 So as a starter, please give at least 10 Hours burn in time.


----------



## magitka27

vapman said:


> IMO if burn in really has any effect it is in the first couple hours of use..... for drivers this small i believe more in psycological than physical burn in. it is not like large drivers which have  a spider...
> 
> that is about $27, a good price IMO




Hmmm so maybe i just have to use it as my daily driver right? Thanks for your respon Vapman, i read your posts in the previous pages as well :3



music4mhell said:


> I feel some burn in hours do change the sound for sure from my past EXP.
> So as a starter, please give at least 10 Hours burn in time.




Its interesting to see a different experience from another person, thanks for sharing one mate  

The seahf is scheduled to arrive in 3-4hrs , i cant wait to share my first purchase and exp with earbuds , 
I tried the monk+ from a local builder here and it isnt stay / sit properly in my ears hahaha :/


----------



## vapman

magitka27 said:


> Hmmm so maybe i just have to use it as my daily driver right? Thanks for your respon Vapman, i read your posts in the previous pages as well :3
> Its interesting to see a different experience from another person, thanks for sharing one mate
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Even though i say that about burn in, i still leave stuff to get 100+ hours burn in during the week 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Hmm the seahf has a similar shell to monk, do you have extra foams, you could try double foams?


----------



## music4mhell

> Its interesting to see a different experience from another person, thanks for sharing one mate
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Is it big or small for your ears ?
 If it's big, then the best option for you will be RX-1 or Ting.
 If it's small, then any other earbud will suffice


----------



## Sempenyi

magitka27 said:


> Hmmm so maybe i just have to use it as my daily driver right? Thanks for your respon Vapman, i read your posts in the previous pages as well :3
> Its interesting to see a different experience from another person, thanks for sharing one mate
> 
> 
> ...


 
 wow. one again from Indonesia.


----------



## Sempenyi

https://world.taobao.com/item/39894747599.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.1t9Xpg#detail

 in case you guys want to pull the trigger on HY-1 (ranked 10 on the contender)

 and @ClieOS how is MusicMaker TY2 and HY-1 sounds ? would really appreciate to hear your thoughts.


----------



## magitka27

vapman said:


> Even though i say that about burn in, i still leave stuff to get 100+ hours burn in during the week
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 So you could it say its recommended to get some burn in before i use it as a daily driver ? 

 The seller included bunch of foams, but i have no idea about using double foams, as soon as its arrived i will post here and try it ahahaha


music4mhell said:


> Is it big or small for your ears ?
> If it's big, then the best option for you will be RX-1 or Ting.
> If it's small, then any other earbud will suffice


 
  
 if im not mistaken without the foam , the monks stay nicely but after a continued use its starting to fell / moved / make me uncomfortable,, 
 i havent tried the rx1 nor the ting, maybe next time i will borrow it from a friend in the group XD
  


sempenyi said:


> wow. one again from Indonesia.


 
  
 greetings sir, as an indonesian you should know about KerHor
 or maybe youre already joined them as well ? XD


----------



## vapman

@magitka27 I start using them right away but hold off on commenting until they have at least or about 10 hours on em.


----------



## nick n

Nobody else has bothered recabling the old Sony HPM-62 yet? Only about 3 or 4 here that I know of.
 Do it and you can pretty much stop visiting this thread


----------



## vapman

nick n said:


> Nobody else has bothered recabling the old Sony HPM-62 yet? Only about 3 or 4 here that I know of.
> Do it and you can pretty much stop visiting this thread


 

 Have you done it? I popped mine open but was unsure about what leads went where, I decided to postpone it until I find my DMM and test the cable itself...
 I have 3 sets here - 2 new and untouched, 1 broken open but ready for recabling.
 i have a nice 3 button mic cable i will replace the stock with.
 very excited to try them


----------



## nick n

Used a nice kevlar reinforced (?) cable, looks like a clone of a Senn ie800 one. Cheap on ebay.
  Unless I am mistaken, positive is on the left side tabs. Should be a red mark anyhow. But then again unless you have a multimeter to check the cable you are using it might be hard to guess TRS unless your cable is colour coded wiring
 Needs decent resealing , contact cement might be best though glue/clamp also works.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5mm-Snakeskin-Style-Replacement-Audio-Cable-TPE-Earphones-for-IE800-/262034051127?hash=item3d02725037


----------



## vapman

good setuff bro, i'll get somtehin figured out


----------



## music4mhell

nick n said:


> Nobody else has bothered recabling the old Sony HPM-62 yet? Only about 3 or 4 here that I know of.
> Do it and you can pretty much stop visiting this thread


 
 Why do you say that we won't need any other earbud if we have Sony HPM-62 with normal 3.5 mm Jack ?
 I still don't get it


----------



## nick n

They need recabling to begin with due to the original connection type/j cord, so put any cable you want. With a mic or a "normal" 3.5


----------



## music4mhell

nick n said:


> They need recabling to begin with due to the original connection type/j cord, so put any cable you want. With a mic or a "normal" 3.5


 
 Yes, i got it.
 Even i can recall my Nokia N90 earbud, it was pretty good.
 I was an Nokia user, so never used Sony phones much.


----------



## luedriver

tomasz2d said:


> This may interest you. Chinese DIY maker of these buds do not give them proper names so let's just call this model Dark Horse Sleeping. These are very tiny buds but with surprisingly huge and nice sound (for their size). They are for about $12 but you would have to use TaoBao agent:
> 
> https://www.bhiner.com/taobao-agent/524663724541
> 
> Here are pictures showing Monk, Cygnus and Dark Horse Sleeping.


 
 I didn't know Philips cables were a thing  last I heard that only the fidelio x2 cables were of worth
  

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.74902)]Philips line edition fine shot chart[/color]


----------



## golov17

Philips cable same AKG K earbuds cable


----------



## Tomasz2D

Monk Plus vs. Monk Plus Candy

 I found out that Candy edition is very nice upgrade over standard edition also in sound qualities. Here are the differences:
 1. Most pronounced difference heard immediately - Candy gained a lot of soundstage depth.
 2. Then, there are improvements in lows section. Not so blurry and boomy bass as in standard edition. Bass got mote texture. Also less lows bleeds into upper mids.
 3. Generally more lively sound with better dynamics in Candy. Better instrument separation with added texture and microdetails.
  
 In summary - the blanket (or maybe just the bedsheet) has been removed.


----------



## Sempenyi

magitka27 said:


> greetings sir, as an indonesian you should know about KerHor
> or maybe youre already joined them as well ? XD


 
 I am on both AuKerHor and ELI for a while.


----------



## ld100

tomasz2d said:


> Monk Plus vs. Monk Plus Candy
> 
> I found out that Candy edition is very nice upgrade over standard edition also in sound qualities. Here are the differences:
> 1. Most pronounced difference heard immediately - Candy gained a lot of soundstage depth.
> ...


 
  
 What is Monk Candy? Link?


----------



## audio123

ld100 said:


> What is Monk Candy? Link?


 

 you wont be able to get it unless u r a VIP or wait for the occasional drops


----------



## Tomasz2D

ld100 said:


> What is Monk Candy? Link?


 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/52vecn/permalink/1073644886046209/


----------



## ld100

audio123 said:


> you wont be able to get it unless u r a VIP or wait for the occasional drops


 
  
 So asking Lee is not going to work I guess?


----------



## audio123

ld100 said:


> So asking Lee is not going to work I guess?


 

 no at all unless u purchase the ve zen 2.0


----------



## boblauer

golov17 said:


> too different beasts..
> This is the closest to Rose Mojito


 
 How close because at a third of the cost that could be a winner if fairly close? Thanks.


----------



## golov17

boblauer said:


> How close because at a third of the cost that could be a winner if fairly close? Thanks.


 Rose has more air and sub-bass


----------



## ld100

MrZ (MusicMaker / Toneking) TY2 - to buy or not to buy... Patiently been waiting for any reviews for weeks and weeks and nothing. I am surprised that dual driver got that little attention. Anyone has it that can do a good review?


----------



## SuperMAG

boblauer said:


> How close because at a third of the cost that could be a winner if fairly close? Thanks.


 
 which earbud you talking about?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

ld100 said:


> MrZ (MusicMaker / Toneking) TY2 - to buy or not to buy... Patiently been waiting for any reviews for weeks and weeks and nothing. I am surprised that dual driver got that little attention. Anyone has it that can do a good review?


 
  
 My shipment has been delayed, it is going to be quite a while before my hands on the TKY2. 
  
 --


----------



## Lionlian

I just slip a chance to get the legendary Aiwa D9, awww man.
  
 is threre it anything satisfy me from that? ZEN or Mojito will do?


----------



## vapman

lionlian said:


> I just slip a chance to get the legendary Aiwa D9, awww man.
> 
> is threre it anything satisfy me from that? ZEN or Mojito will do?


 

 HOW!!!!! I have been trying to find one for ages 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 However you got it you are a lucky, lucky man!
@Danneq compared Mojito to D9.
 From his thoughts what I understood is Mojito is not too different from D9.
 Get the Zen 2 if you want something satisfying and notably different.


----------



## boblauer

supermag said:


> which earbud you talking about?


 
 Moondrop VX Pro, Oleg has one and mentioned it was comparable or close or ,can't remember his exact words, to Mojito so me being the ever so value conscious person thought it's one third the cost so maybe I can mentally justify to myself spending that. Just wondered how close cause I am okay with horse shoes and hand grenades close for the price.


----------



## Danneq

lionlian said:


> I just slip a chance to get the legendary Aiwa D9, awww man.
> 
> is threre it anything satisfy me from that? ZEN or Mojito will do?




Well, D9 wins when it comes to soundstage depth, instrument layering and placement. You can almost touch the instruments. It's like they hang in the air in front of you. Bass is sorely lacking, though. Rose Mojito is not far behind when it comes to soundstage. Details are almost as good as on D9. I'd say that Mojito is more balanced overall with better bass, so for casual listening I prefer them to the Aiwas. I have not heard any current earbud that come close to Mojito when it comes to soundstage and details. For rock and metal music the slightly recessed mids are not in the way.

My current recommendation, if you don't have it already, is Edimun V3. It's almost like a baby Zen v1 with low impedance. Really nice earbuds!


----------



## vapman

Really happy to hear that Danneq cause my Edimun v3 is due in any day now....
  
 My TY Hi-Z 32 came in today! Would take a pic but it looks like every other TY/Seahf earbud


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I didn't dig V3 so much. I gave it to my brother.


----------



## ozkan

You guys don't know what your Monks are capable of. I'm hearing some amazing dynamics and details with my modded Monk that I've never heard before. How can this be possible? I'm still in shock. Just wow!


----------



## vapman

Well, TY Hi-Z 32 just showed up.
  
 I listened, let it to burn in for 8 hours, and came back to it...
  
 I can't really say I see why these are recommended over the Monk by anybody 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Sure for $5.20 with shipping they are okay and have nice present bass just a little deeper and more powerful bass than Monk, but there are no mids anywhere and the highs are thin and a bit sharp, borderline sibilant.
  
 IMO the monk can't be compared to this and I am surprised it has been.  I know we all hear differently and have different preferences, so all I can say is i'd recommend it to anyone who might think the Monk to have rolled off treble or too many mids?
  
  
*EDIT: *I spendt more time with it and found it to excel in genres that focus very little on midrange. They are like a perma-V shaped Monk original IMO. Great with Eurobeat!


----------



## mochill

VE FTW!!!#


----------



## music4mhell

mochill said:


> VE FTW!!!#


 
 What what ? Please
  
 Nirvana released ?


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> What what ? Please
> 
> Nirvana released ?


 
 He just says stuff like that sometimes. If Nirvana was released we'd know about it with pictures or a big announce.


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> Well, TY Hi-Z 32 just showed up.
> 
> IMO the monk can't be compared to this and I am surprised it has been.  I know we all hear differently and have different preferences, so all I can say is i'd recommend it to anyone who might think the Monk to have rolled off treble or too many mids?


 
 Hi,
 We were chatting the other day about trying to get back to E888 sound with newer earbuds. Would you say Monk Plus (ordered) is a step closer to E888 than TY Hi-Z (which I had but did not quite enjoy)? I'd probably end up with the ones you recommended months down the road but, sometimes, the journey itself is the reward


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> Well, TY Hi-Z 32 just showed up.
> 
> I listened, let it to burn in for 8 hours, and came back to it...
> 
> ...




Agree on recessed mids but I hear no sharpness in the highs of my TY HiZ 32. Monk+ sounds more neutral but TY 32 sounds more fun.


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> Hi,
> We were chatting the other day about trying to get back to E888 sound with newer earbuds. Would you say Monk Plus (ordered) is a step closer to E888 than TY Hi-Z (which I had but did not quite enjoy)? I'd probably end up with the ones you recommended months down the road but, sometimes, the journey itself is the reward


 

 Oh my god yes, a hundred times yes. Let me say i definitely think if you want  more like E888 sound and are willing to spend more, you are best served buying Asura 2.0 or Boarseman MX9s.
  
 The Asura is the most overlooked of the VE buds because the Monk Plus is even closer to the Asura 2.0 than the Monk Plus is/was, and is often forgotten. Asura 2.0 is most like E888 I have heard, to the best of my memory.
  
 The Boarseman MX98s deserves mention here but I find it to be not as sweet on the treble as the Sony was. If that was important to you, go Asura.
  
 I think if you get an Asura 2.0 (which you should, since you'll get a classic 32ohm Monk with purchase) and a Monk Plus you'll find it closest to E888. The Cygnus may be of interest, but is far more aggressive and can be tiring whereas the Asura is sweet and non fatiguing as was the E888. I found the E888 to truly shine in the sweetness of the upper mids and treble smoothness.
  
 The Zen 2 should not absolutely not be considered  in the E888 comparison: it is like a midrange cannon in comparison to the E888.
  
 I would love to see someone make an earbud case like the E888 - that was the coolest!!!
  
 TBH I miss the E888, it had a really special "something" to it, i wish i could pinpoint it, believe that I was in note taking mode while listening to it. it was like a smooth sweetness in the upper mids. that only the Asura specialized in. Irarely used the Asura ever before getting the Sony 888 and realizing where the real sweetlness lied. Lee may say i am off base and that is  fine with me but I believe the Asura is a Earbud designed for the fans of those 90s and early 2000s hifi buds? In the day when Sony and Yuin was king...
  


danneq said:


> Agree on recessed mids but I hear no sharpness in the highs of my TY HiZ 32. Monk+ sounds more neutral but TY 32 sounds more fun.


 
  
 Decided to give it another shot, so I took my E18 and a separate amp with its line out, put one in each ear and volume matched it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I have to admit it's actually not sharp, but I find it to be more aggressive like lhe Cygnus, so it seems more tiring in comparison to the Monk.
  
 The monk has all the mids but the TY 32 has far better bass impact.
  
 If you could take one or the other I would take the Monk, it's a much fuller and gentler sound and is great with any genre, but I agree the TY is more fun.  At the end of my 2 bud listening I had some "vintage "Super Eurobeat on and ended up going with the TY 32, more fun bass and treble for genres like eurobeat.
  
 Where it falls flat for me is music that is dependentd on the midrange, then the treble sticks out and gives the ilusion of sharpness. It could be very nice on mid heavy, poor treble sources now that I think about it.
  
 The lack of mids is very clear though, a very V shape earbud. I would give it a shot for playing games - I delegated the Boarseman MX98s to this, but if the TY surns out to be good enough at channel separation, it could earn a new home there, as the Seahf 32 was too thin for my liking.


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> TBH I miss the E888, it had a really special "something" to it, i wish i could pinpoint it, believe that I was in note taking mode while listening to it. it was like a smooth sweetness in the upper mids. that only the Asura specialized in. Irarely used the Asura ever before getting the Sony 888 and realizing where the real sweetlness lied. Lee may say i am off base and that is  fine with me but I believe the Asura is a Earbud designed for the fans of those 90s and early 2000s hifi buds? In the day when Sony and Yuin was king...


 
 Sound like you are trying to re-start the MX500 vs E888 sound wars 20 years too late  Two very stubborn camps of users in the late 90s. I still have my MX500 that I used for comparison with my E888. Loved the E888, but can understand why MX500 was so popular (bass, bass & more bass). OTOH, E888 was incredibly fragile at the flexible stem; Sony should have re-shelled it.
  
 I will see how I get along with the Monk plus before deciding on Asura 2.0. I can't believe I am actually thinking of paying more than US$10 for a pair of humble earbuds in 2016


----------



## audio123

ty hiz 650 is officially out


----------



## Danneq

Older Sony buds should beat E888 easily. Haven't heard them but read that they focus on mids/upper mids. E484 should be a different beast with its deep bass impact (but slightly small soundstage). E282 has got less bass impact than E484 but a bigger soundstage, so I prefer that one. But E252 is my favorite Sony vintage earbud with a, slightly dry, natural sound. Amazing how Sony could make such a good sounding earbud in 1983!


----------



## purplesun

danneq said:


> Older Sony buds should beat E888 easily. Haven't heard them but read that they focus on mids/upper mids. E484 should be a different beast with its deep bass impact (but slightly small soundstage). E282 has got less bass impact than E484 but a bigger soundstage, so I prefer that one. But E252 is my favorite Sony vintage earbud with a, slightly dry, natural sound. Amazing how Sony could make such a good sounding earbud in 1983!


 

 To be honest, back then, most people (me included) had no idea how good or bad earbuds sounded. They weren't legends then, they were just ear plugs that played music. But E888 somehow got me addicted, lovely mids and highs but almost no bass to speak of. But, IMHO, it probably won't hold up well against most low-end IEMs or a decent earbuds nowadays though. Example: TY Hi-Z 32 easily out-bassed my MX500 recently - so things improve with time, as they should.


----------



## music4mhell

audio123 said:


> ty hiz 650 is officially out


 
 Link Please !


----------



## tommo21

music4mhell said:


> Link Please !


 
http://penonaudio.com/TY-Hi-Z-HP-650


----------



## Danneq

purplesun said:


> To be honest, back then, most people (me included) had no idea how good or bad earbuds sounded. They weren't legends then, they were just ear plugs that played music. But E888 somehow got me addicted, lovely mids and highs but almost no bass to speak of. But, IMHO, it probably won't hold up well against most low-end IEMs or a decent earbuds nowadays though. Example: TY Hi-Z 32 easily out-bassed my MX500 recently - so things improve with time, as they should.


 



 Well, I did collect some vintage earbuds a few years ago and E252 is second on my top 10 list (topped by Blox TM7). I like E282 and E484 but notice how each new Sony earbud goes down slightly in SQ compared to the one before it. That's why I did not bother with Sony's top tier earbuds after E484...

 Still, E252, E282 and E484 could easily be TOTL earbuds if they were released today. The difference now is that $5 earbuds such as Monk+ and TY HiZ 32 are so much better than cheap buds of yesteryear.

 After a few years without good earbuds, except for Yuins offerings, I am overjoyed with new great sounding earbuds coming out all the time. Happy days for an earbud fan!


----------



## purplesun

danneq said:


> After a few years without good earbuds. except for Yuins offerings, I am overjoyed with new great sounding earbuds coming out all the time. Happy days for an earbud fan!


 
 Agree with you 1000%. At some point last decade, I could not even find ear foams anymore, and was overjoyed when I found some rare ones and paid about US$1.5 a pair of ear foam!!!


----------



## music4mhell

tommo21 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Link Please !
> ...


 
 Thanks, not so expensive.
 I will order one then


----------



## Fabi

vapman fwiw I use ty 32 with thin foams for better soundstage and mids but I think it won't have enough bass quantity for you liking. 
Edit:do you have first version or second with L plug ?




music4mhell said:


> Thanks, not so expensive.
> I will order one then



It looks like it has the same beautiful carbon fiber plug (from language translator of K's page) as K's 500/600


----------



## vapman

fabi said:


> vapman fwiw I use ty 32 with thin foams for better soundstage and mids but I think it won't have enough bass quantity for you liking.
> Edit:do you have first version or second with L plug ?
> It looks like it has the same beautiful carbon fiber plug (from language translator of K's page) as K's 500/600




L plug
Tbey rule gaming and movies but liste ing? Bahhh the mon sounds a little weird with movies/tv, TY reignt there $15 for voth earbuds and rx pack, thats jo so bad is it? >


----------



## tommo21

Here's my stash at work..... aaah the madness:

  
 Todays bud of choice....Seahf LD3.0 320ohm. Absolutely love it


----------



## Fabi

vapman said:


> L plug
> Tbey rule gaming and movies but liste ing? Bahhh the mon sounds a little weird with movies/tv, TY reignt there $15 for voth earbuds and rx pack, thats jo so bad is it? >



I have the 1st version. Going to have the second version, we'll see. 

Also at first, my pair sounded with weird slow pace. After some time of burn-in (100h?), it was better but not the fastest of earbuds of course.


----------



## vapman

fabi said:


> I have the 1st version. Going to have the second version, we'll see.
> 
> Also at first, my pair sounded with weird slow pace. After some time of burn-in (100h?), it was better but not the fastest of earbuds of course.


 
 How do they sound different?
  
 I'm using MX98s and loving it. warm in all the ways you want, brigt in all the ways you want.


----------



## jrazmar

fabi said:


> @vapman fwiw I use ty 32 with thin foams for better soundstage and mids but I think it won't have enough bass quantity for you liking.
> Edit:do you have first version or second with L plug ?
> It looks like it has the same beautiful carbon fiber plug (from language translator of K's page) as K's 500/600


 
  
 Same that my balanced Cygnus have. Just for the looks, I will easily grab one but will wait for impressions here before taking the plunge. Waiting for the Seahf LD 3.0 320ohm...


----------



## magitka27

The Seahf LD 3.0 150ohm landed safely yesterday afternoon, just finished put it on 20hrs 
 fyi im not using the foam / donat foam / double combo foam bcs it makes me so uncomfortable and the earbud cant sit securely, T.T

 Setup: Fiio  X1 (DAP) ; Fiio Q1 (Amp) volume pot 4/9 on low gain
  
 the bass is not enormous in the quantity, but i like the texture and the quality of it. Very relaxing type of bass that blend well with my smooth jazz collection, and some japanese anisong, The depth and width is great too, the placement of the instrument spreaded nicely. Vocal characteristic seems to be neutral, for women singer like YUI . LiSA , Aimer, olivia ong, MYMP, you name it. The most noticeable thing in this earbud is its sparky somewhat grainy treble, its powerfull yet can be a double edge sword in some of my collection. To put a touch of warm feel i turn on the Q1's bass boost and its very enjoyable too !
  
 Sorry if i'm mistaken in this short description, maybe you guys can give me some knowledge or correction


----------



## Quuz

Anyone knows if there is a cable with microphone that fits the Dunu Titan 5?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> Older Sony buds should beat E888 easily. Haven't heard them but read that they focus on mids/upper mids. E484 should be a different beast with its deep bass impact (but slightly small soundstage). E282 has got less bass impact than E484 but a bigger soundstage, so I prefer that one. But E252 is my favorite Sony vintage earbud with a, slightly dry, natural sound. Amazing how Sony could make such a good sounding earbud in 1983!


 
 Seems like a lot of individuals over at China very much agree with your opinion based on the prices of the 252's. I really wish that I can have a chance to listen to them =(. Even more expensive than the Mojito's

https://s.taobao.com/search?q=索尼+MDR+E252&s_from=newHeader&ssid=s5-e&search_type=item&sourceId=tb.item


----------



## Danneq

I paid around $250 for my pair of E252 on Ebay a few years ago. However, they were pretty much brand new and the original box was included.

 Prices have gone up even more than 4-5 years ago when I was buying vintage earbuds.

 Yesterday an auction for a pair of E282 finished on German Ebay. The final price was €808! That's just insane!

 I bought my pair of E282 for around €150 about 5 years ago and they weren't in perfect condition with a small crack on the ring around the front and no wind up case.

 I heard that lately Chinese have started buying up vintage earbuds on Ebay and Yahoo auction. It's good that I bought my stuff around 5 years ago.

 If I had collected vintage earbuds 10-15 years ago I could have bought the best ones for around $150 each, but those days are long gone. Now it seems impossible to even find TOTL Sony and Aiwa for less than $300.

 Nah, nowadays I aim for what's currently being sold. And dream of upcoming earbuds (new Blox flagship & VE Nirvana)...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> I paid around $250 for my pair of E252 on Ebay a few years ago. However, they were pretty much brand new and the original box was included.
> 
> Prices have gone up even more than 4-5 years ago when I was buying vintage earbuds.
> 
> ...


 
 Wow, those were the times eh? (No I am not that old yet, but just felt like making that comment).
 Maybe if I scavenge around my house I maybe able to find some earbuds which was used by my parents hahaha.

 And that new Blox is very intriguing indeed....


----------



## audio123

Anyone has an amp setup in mind to drive TY HI Z 650? I am thinking Objective 2


----------



## music4mhell

audio123 said:


> Anyone has an amp setup in mind to drive TY HI Z 650? I am thinking Objective 2


 
 i will use it with my Chord Mojo.


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> Wow, those were the times eh? (No I am not that old yet, but just felt like making that comment).
> Maybe if I scavenge around my house I maybe able to find some earbuds which was used by my parents hahaha.
> 
> And that new Blox is very intriguing indeed....


 

 Well, prices on vintage Sony and Aiwa earbuds have really gone up just the last few years so you can say that...

 Yeah, I hope to be able to try the new Blox flagship. There is a risk that we expect too much and become disappointed, though. Still, TM7 is my favorite. Today I brought Rose Mojito and TM7 to work (using my Kenwood HD60GA9) and while Mojito has got a more expansive and big soundstage, TM7 just presents everything so efortlessly and with great precision. Blox uses standard MX400/500 housings without any marking or writing except for L and R. The cable is cheap (feels cheaper than the Monk+ cable). But they sound oh so sweet...
 I still complain about the bass in my Mojitos. It just feels like it's too bloated and drowns out some of the mids. But I'm using the white rubber rings I got with the Monk+ ex pack and over that I use the white full foams that came with the Mojito. Perhaps I should remove the white rings and experiment with donut foams?

 By the way, is VE Nirvana supposed to low impedance (around 32 ohm) or will it be higher impedance and demand an amp? I hope to see a TOTL earbuds with low impedance from VE...

 Edit - removed the rubber rings and most of that "midbass bloat" is removed. But now the Mojitos don't sit as well in my ears. Will try with donuts when I come home.

 Edit 2: or Monk+ thin foams...


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> Well, TY Hi-Z 32 just showed up.
> 
> I listened, let it to burn in for 8 hours, and came back to it...
> 
> ...


 
 Please note people were comparing Monk to TY 32 older ver. 1. Also as per my post here they are not exactly the same but very very similar:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/7980#post_12774249

 And as per these posts by audio123:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/10095#post_12865339
http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/10095#post_12865380

 apparently there are some differences in sound signature between older TY 32 ver. 1 (I plug) and ver. 2 (L plug). In fact, what both of you said about differences in mids is very convergent.
 I was tempted to buy ver. 2 as I thought it will be improved model but now, after reading your impressions, I think I will pass on this one and just keep TY 32 ver. 1 safe as special and more refined version of Monk which may become soon very rare.


----------



## Saoshyant

Has anyone ordered the DK-Song?  I'm kind of curious about that one.


----------



## fleasbaby

danneq said:


> Well, prices on vintage Sony and Aiwa earbuds have really gone up just the last few years so you can say that...
> 
> Yeah, I hope to be able to try the new Blox flagship. There is a risk that we expect too much and become disappointed, though. Still, TM7 is my favorite. Today I brought Rose Mojito and TM7 to work (using my Kenwood HD60GA9) and while Mojito has got a more expansive and big soundstage, TM7 just presents everything so efortlessly and with great precision. Blox uses standard MX400/500 housings without any marking or writing except for L and R. The cable is cheap (feels cheaper than the Monk+ cable). But they sound oh so sweet...
> I still complain about the bass in my Mojitos. It just feels like it's too bloated and drowns out some of the mids. But I'm using the white rubber rings I got with the Monk+ ex pack and over that I use the white full foams that came with the Mojito. Perhaps I should remove the white rings and experiment with donut foams?
> ...


 
  
 Does anyone have an ETA on th Blox flagship at all?


----------



## Danneq

fleasbaby said:


> Does anyone have an ETA on th Blox flagship at all?


 

 "Some time later this year or otherwise next year." is the most exact estimate I've heard...


----------



## jamesbdh

My plan was to review my new buds but I forgot my 1/4" adapter today.  unamped from htc m8 both the saehf 150 and 400 sound bright.  deep bass but punchy highs. The m98s nice neutral sound.  What really blew me a way was the tp16... Nice neutral/natural presentation.  Wide soundstage.  everything is just enough with nothing feeling lacking to me.   I know it isn't a fair comparison for a 400 ohm bud without an amp just wanted to praise the tp16 a bit.  The only issue seems to be that the mic might be a bit quite but haven't fully tested.


----------



## ozkan

vapman said:


> The monk has all the mids but the TY 32 has far better bass impact.
> 
> If you could take one or the other I would take the Monk, it's a much fuller and gentler sound and is great with any genre, but I agree the TY is more fun.  At the end of my 2 bud listening I had some "vintage "Super Eurobeat on and ended up going with the TY 32, more fun bass and treble for genres like eurobeat.
> 
> ...




How is the midrange resolution on TY? Do you find the Monk+ a bit too midforward and suffer from mid-bass hump which ends in bleeding into the midrange in general?


----------



## audio123

my humble take on the ty hiz hp 32 V2. did a short write up for u guys
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/ty-hi-z-32ohm-hifi-earbuds-earphone/reviews/16917
 cheers. happy reading


----------



## magitka27

jamesbdh said:


> My plan was to review my new buds but I forgot my 1/4" adapter today.  unamped from htc m8 both the saehf 150 and 400 sound bright.  deep bass but punchy highs. The m98s nice neutral sound.  What really blew me a way was the tp16... Nice neutral/natural presentation.  Wide soundstage.  everything is just enough with nothing feeling lacking to me.   I know it isn't a fair comparison for a 400 ohm bud without an amp just wanted to praise the tp16 a bit.  The only issue seems to be that the mic might be a bit quite but haven't fully tested.




Which type of 150ohm that belongs to you? The LD 3.0 or 4.0?

If its 3.0 then i have the same as yours xD
Yes its sounds bright but with donut foam it reduced the sparkly treble,

What do you think about the soundstage and the overall width-depth sir?


----------



## jamesbdh

magitka27 said:


> Which type of 150ohm that belongs to you? The LD 3.0 or 4.0?
> 
> If its 3.0 then i have the same as yours xD
> Yes its sounds bright but with donut foam it reduced the sparkly treble,
> ...


 

 I have the 3.0 150 and 3.0 400.  I really would rather not comment too much on them since I listened to them a bit at home while burning in on my desktop amp and they sounded much better but right now I wasn't impressed by the width but it wasn't a downside like other buds for me.  I prefer nice wide soundstages.


----------



## magitka27

jamesbdh said:


> I have the 3.0 150 and 3.0 400.  I really would rather not comment too much on them since I listened to them a bit at home while burning in on my desktop amp and they sounded much better but right now I wasn't impressed by the width but it wasn't a downside like other buds for me.  I prefer nice wide soundstages.




Hmmm i see
I havent reach 100hrs of burn in too, but at 40hrs burn in it sounded better than ootb , lookin forward to it after 100hrs 

Can you give me some earbuds recommendation that have nice wide soundstage?? $50 maximum budget


----------



## jamesbdh

magitka27 said:


> Hmmm i see
> I havent reach 100hrs of burn in too, but at 40hrs burn in it sounded better than ootb , lookin forward to it after 100hrs
> 
> Can you give me some earbuds recommendation that have nice wide soundstage?? $50 maximum budget


 

 I am sure some other might give you some better recommendations but for me the original monk, tp16 and koss kc75(not an earbud but portable) is all I really have for wide sound stage.


----------



## Tomasz2D

saoshyant said:


> Has anyone ordered the DK-Song?  I'm kind of curious about that one.


 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/9165#post_12818960
http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/9165#post_12819140


----------



## Saoshyant

Ah, no reason to buy the Song unless I'm aiming for a detachable cable for mic, balanced, etc


----------



## golov17

Interesting 








http://media.weibo.cn/article?id=2309404019415237683733&jumpfrom=weibocom


----------



## Townyj

golov17 said:


> Interesting
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Already 4 month old news from the VSonic GR07 thread..  will have to read how they are though. Love my GR07s and an earbud of similar quality would be awesome.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/552132/vsonic-gr07-impressions-thread/7170


----------



## Ira Delphic

townyj said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting
> ...


 
  
 There's also the Vsonic UU2 'bud which I've heard nothing about.
  
 I edited out big photo


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> Interesting
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 I also want to quote the post with the big photos!

 BTW they look nice but a bit uncomfortable...


----------



## kurtextrem

jamesbdh said:


> I have the 3.0 150 and 3.0 400.  I really would rather not comment too much on them since I listened to them a bit at home while burning in on my desktop amp and they sounded much better but right now I wasn't impressed by the width but it wasn't a downside like other buds for me.  I prefer nice wide soundstages.


 
 on desktop, do you think 3.0 400 is better than tp16?


----------



## Tomasz2D

golov17 said:


>


 
 Danneq. I removed one photo but I wanted to add this one


----------



## Danneq

Spoiler: Nice!



Quote:


tomasz2d said:


> Danneq. I removed one photo but I wanted to add this one





 

 Post has been edited...


----------



## pfloyd

The current earbud renaissance has moved me to dig into my older inventory and rediscover some of my favorites

Sorry,Internet so poor can't upload image☹️
Ah, there we go


----------



## yalper

ozkan said:


> You guys don't know what your Monks are capable of. I'm hearing some amazing dynamics and details with my modded Monk that I've never heard before. How can this be possible? I'm still in shock. Just wow!


 
  
 I've listened ozkan's modded Monk last weekend, as he stated earlier modded Monk sounded mildly different and better to me too. In comparison to stock ones, modded ones sounded more natural, more detailed, quicker, airier, less punchier, and way less midbass hump.
  
 ozkan did a good job here, he is in search of finding perfect sound, and day after day he is getting closer to it


----------



## vapman

Wow, new Vsonic soon! interesting, i had Vsonic IEM almost 6 years ago...


----------



## vapman

BTW - I have to mention, before  I send them home, the Sunrise SWD2 is a lot better than I expected.
  
 The thing is I can't really recommend them over the Monk. they really do sound like a Monk+ with a less rifned upper mids and treble. and a linear signuare instead of slight V shape like the Monk
  
 If you like the more forward signautre of the SWD2 go for that instead of Cygnus (if you like everything forward) or Asura 2.0 (for a more accurate sound) .They are both too hash and energetic in comparison.
  
 ES100 is a prime choice to replace SWD2 for a fraction of the price if you're not a heavy bass booster. They ES100 do not take to EQ very well.
  
 Worth $101? Not sure. The ES100 is easily had at $50 new, so i can't say "go and grab one!"


----------



## ozkan

vapman said:


> The monk has all the mids but the TY 32 has far better bass impact.
> 
> If you could take one or the other I would take the Monk, it's a much fuller and gentler sound and is great with any genre, but I agree the TY is more fun.  At the end of my 2 bud listening I had some "vintage "Super Eurobeat on and ended up going with the TY 32, more fun bass and treble for genres like eurobeat.
> 
> ...




How is the midrange resolution on TY? Do you find the Monk+ a bit too midforward and suffer from mid-bass hump which ends in bleeding into the midrange in general?


----------



## vapman

OK I did not know there are two TI HiZ versions.
 Mine is the right angle plug.
 Would love to hear straight cable HiZ to see if it sounds  difference.
  
 PS @purplesun I did more MDR E888LP listening just for you. Cygnus and Boarseman MX98s are your best bets. MX98s might be slightly closer but doesn't have the exact level of treble detail as 888LP. If that bothers you, go Cygnus, the cheapest new one you can find.


----------



## jant71

I got the RA version coming in a day or three. Sounds like it will be a good test for the BGVP "B" or mids cable which does take away on the ends. Sounds like they are fun though which is why I grabbed a pair. I also figure they are good for outside where wind and noise kill off bass and treble so the end result should be good with the right pads. I also figure they are good for low level listening unamped straight out of my Cowon as it gets more trebley with higher stages of the volume. Should find some uses for them


----------



## vapman

Okay, the SWD2 deserves more credit than I gave it before,  but I firmly believe it should cost no more than Asura 2.0.
  
 Monk Plus is an Asura Lite.  Zen is in a whole different league and can and should not be compared to others.
  
 TY 32 is not as bad as I originally said, but I would ONLY recommend it over the Monk if you think the Monk is too mid heavy and prefer a V signature always. It does not have the gorgeous tonal balance of the Monk though.


----------



## 93EXCivic

vapman said:


> I have to admit it's actually not sharp, but I find it to be more aggressive like lhe Cygnus, so it seems more tiring in comparison to the Monk.
> 
> The monk has all the mids but the TY 32 has far better bass impact.
> 
> ...




I just got my Ty Hi-Z 32 ohm in and I am also a bit underwhelmed with it. I will burn it overnight and give it another chance tomorrow. On a lot of songs it sounds pretty thin to me. Both my other buds (Monk+ and T-Music V1) sound much fuller and have much stronger mids. Personally I also found that the sound stage of those two where also better. 

The Ty Hi-Z handled Wiz Khalifa's On My Level way better though. 

I am going to measure all three tomorrow.


----------



## vapman

93excivic said:


> I just got my Ty Hi-Z 32 ohm in and I am also a bit underwhelmed with it. I will burn it overnight and give it another chance tomorrow. On a lot of songs it sounds pretty thin to me. Both my other buds (Monk+ and T-Music V1) sound much fuller and have much stronger mids. Personally I also found that the sound stage of those two where also better.
> 
> The Ty Hi-Z handled Wiz Khalifa's On My Level way better though.
> 
> I am going to measure all three tomorrow.


 

 Give it a day and go back and forth betten Monk and TY. I thought TY was garbage first couple hours. Later I found myself enjoying eurobeat more with TY than Monk. But, when anything with midrange detail started playing, back to the monks right away!
  
 I will keep it around for when the occasions calls for it. Maybe it will be my new gaming computer bud, so my MX98s can get some real listening use.


----------



## purplesun

PS @purplesun I did more MDR E888LP listening just for you. Cygnus and Boarseman MX98s are your best bets. MX98s might be slightly closer but doesn't have the exact level of treble detail as 888LP. If that bothers you, go Cygnus, the cheapest new one you can find.

-------------
Can I summarize that the shortlist of likely modern earbuds that replicates the E888 sound is:
(lowest priced first)
Boarseman MX98s
Hifiman ES100
Shozoy Cygnus
VE Asura 2.0

ES100 has a few more features that I like: Angled plug & smaller earbud diameter with a kink on the side (similar to E888). Other than lacking in bass (which was same with E888) and ugly blue colour, I will probably get this next, if the soon-to-arrive Monk Plus doesn't satisfy me.

On a side note, I've ordered a Hidizs AP60 DAP that comes with CUSTOMIZED earbud. Any idea what CUSTOMIZED could mean for earbuds? This will be an additional datapoint for my E888 sound quest when I receive them.


----------



## pfloyd

Do the e888 have biocell drivers? I'm sure my e828 do not match them in quality but they certainly do not lack in the bass department.


----------



## purplesun

pfloyd said:


> Do the e888 have biocell drivers? I'm sure my e828 do not match them in quality but they certainly do not lack in the bass department.



 


I think so. But as noted by others here, the earlier Sonys had strong bass. But, I think, during the 90s, Sennheiser took over as the bass king of earbuds with MX500 and subsequent variants. While at the same time, IMO, E888 was like wearing tube amplifiers in your ears. At complete opposite end of the MX500 sound. The E888 sound was an acquired taste, while MX500 sound was quite easily accessible by most people. Also E888 was about twice the price of MX500, so it is not surprising to see so many MX500 variants still kicking around today.


----------



## pfloyd

I have mx400s, which I believe are mx500 without the volume slide. I find the e828 bassier and more fun vshape sound, the mx400 more mid centric. The e828 are also very efficient and play louder than just about any other earbud.


----------



## ozkan

pfloyd said:


> I have mx400s, which I believe are mx500 without the volume slide. I find the e828 bassier and more fun vshape sound, the mx400 more mid centric. The e828 are also very efficient and play louder than just about any other earbud.




MX400 and MX500 are very different sounding earbuds if my memory serves me well. MX400 had thinner midrange and less bass but overall refinement was better than MX500 and more suited to classical/orchestral music.


----------



## purplesun

pfloyd said:


> I have mx400s, which I believe are mx500 without the volume slide. I find the e828 bassier and more fun vshape sound, the mx400 more mid centric. The e828 are also very efficient and play louder than just about any other earbud.



 

Yeah, Sonys were damn good at making a lot of earbuds for a long time. From the cheap lousy ones to really goods ones.
Which year did the E828 come out? Seems like it was made to combat the MX500 variants.


----------



## pfloyd

purplesun said:


> pfloyd said:
> 
> 
> > I have mx400s, which I believe are mx500 without the volume slide. I find the e828 bassier and more fun vshape sound, the mx400 more mid centric. The e828 are also very efficient and play louder than just about any other earbud.
> ...


I have tech brochure dated 2004 with 2012 update.


----------



## purplesun

pfloyd said:


> I have tech brochure dated 2004 with 2012 update.



 

That's quite recent. But, tbh, it's probably quite different sounding from earbuds from the 90s/80s. Back then, there was no EDM nor the weird instrumentation of today. Just about the lowest, loudest sound would be from a Quiny Jones production or Sheffield Labs production.


----------



## pfloyd

purplesun said:


> pfloyd said:
> 
> 
> > I have tech brochure dated 2004 with 2012 update.
> ...


They along with my v150s have Indonesia stamped on them where the new v150s are made in China which could add some variation.


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> fleasbaby said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone have an ETA on th Blox flagship at all?
> ...


 
 I think it's not flagship, it will be a midfier ?


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Wow, new Vsonic soon! interesting, i had Vsonic IEM almost 6 years ago...


 http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=a21h8.7987923.10003.1.oGRljb&id=538310054870


----------



## Saoshyant

If it hits Aliexpress/PenonAudio, I'll be buying it...  I'm tempted to do my first purchase on Taobao to pick up some random stuff, but I'd really need a good list before it'd be worth going through a Taobao agent.


----------



## fairx

Commenting ty hi-z 32

I own old version straight plug and I can understand why some call this sibilant. I can handle a little bit sibilant but my friend apparently can't. He complain highs on ty tiring. So maybe different ear different pleasure. 

I use my ty 32 with its original foam or tomahawk foam. Not so thin but not thick either. It's slight v sound but only slightly. Way laid back compared to tomahawk or rx-1. Very good instruments / vocal position with binaural recordings. 

Nowadays I listen more to my semi open superlux evo and ty reminded me how much they're similar. Superlux has wider soundstage of course but ty have better mids. 

TY very good overall but different ear might interpret differently. Also if you lower 4k a few dB in eq they sound very much smooth. 

I might order the new ty just to test. 

Anybody have ty 32 and mrz Tp16? How they compare?


----------



## music4mhell

fairx said:


> Commenting ty hi-z 32
> 
> I own old version straight plug and I can understand why some call this sibilant. I can handle a little bit sibilant but my friend apparently can't. He complain highs on ty tiring. So maybe different ear different pleasure.
> 
> ...


 
 I have old, TY 32 and TP16, but never compared 
 Should i do it now ?


----------



## vapman

IDK guys but between TY HiZ 32 and Earphone Association (both versions) i'm not sold.
  
 Gonna take a break with the TY being killers of a $5 or even $20 earbds, I really do not hear something special here, sorry to say. I might have had too high expectation, but it just can't top the monk, unless you are fiending for the OG monk sound and it's cheaper for you go one than an OG monk. But it's still not the same sound/


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> I think it's not flagship, it will be a midfier ?


 

 No, Blox is working on a new flagship but it's going very slow. The recently released B200 is the mid fi earbud. However it was only released in Thailand (if I understand correctly)...


----------



## Danneq

Strange, by the way. I consider myself slightly sensitive to sharp highs and sibilance, but I hear no sharp highs in my pair of straight plug TY HiZ 32. I use thin Monk+ foams. I find the original Monk to have much sharper highs. Overall I think those two sound quite similar but the TY HiZ 32 has got more bass and less sharp highs than the original Monk.

 Monk+ is quite different compared to both the original Monk and TY HiZ 32.


----------



## purplesun

Regarding TY Hi-Z 32 (straight plug), IMHO, the bass sounds artificially bloated and I can't hear much stuff beyond, I estimate, 7khz-8khz on it. No sibilance at all. I wish there was, it would then be brighter sounding. Playing on Fiio E10K.
  
 Edit: Ignore my views. Earbud was not sufficiently burned-in.


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> Regarding TY Hi-Z 32 (straight plug), IMHO, the bass sounds artificially bloated and I can't hear much stuff beyond, I estimate, 7khz-8khz on it. No sibilance at all. I wish there was, it would then be brighter sounding. Playing on Fiio E10K.


 

 You need the Seahf 32.


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> You need the Seahf 32.


 
 One earbud at a time, vapman. I may be old, but I should be able to live long enough to eventually get the earbud that I want


----------



## fairx

music4mhell said:


> I have old, TY 32 and TP16, but never compared
> Should i do it now ?


 
 please do.. TQVM


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> One earbud at a time, vapman. I may be old, but I should be able to live long enough to eventually get the earbud that I want


 

 Undoubtedly! However speaking from my recent purchases, that sound like would be favorite from that lot


----------



## fairx

danneq said:


> Strange, by the way. I consider myself slightly sensitive to sharp highs and sibilance, but I hear no sharp highs in my pair of straight plug TY HiZ 32. I use thin Monk+ foams. I find the original Monk to have much sharper highs. Overall I think those two sound quite similar but the TY HiZ 32 has got more bass and less sharp highs than the original Monk.
> 
> Monk+ is quite different compared to both the original Monk and TY HiZ 32.


 
 hmm maybe I shouldn't said sibilant. I just assume it's sibilant to my friend ears. his words are "bright" and "tiring", apologies
  
 I too don't hear any sibilant.
  
 i found TY to have bump in 4k-5k area. usually sibilant occurs in 8k-9k


----------



## Danneq

fairx said:


> hmm maybe I shouldn't said sibilant. I just assume it's sibilant to my friend ears. his words are "bright" and "tiring", apologies
> 
> I too don't hear any sibilant.


 

 Well, different people hear different things (because of sound preference, shape of the ear which affects placement of earbuds, hearing etc...).

 I can agree that TY HiZ 32 is a bit V shaped but I do not find the highs very sharp. I also do not find the highs of Rose Mojito too sharp if I use full foams. I experimented a bit yesterday and decided to go with Monk+ thin foams over Monk+ rubber rings on the Mojito. Without foams I do find the highs of Mojito a bit sharp.
 Some people cannot stand the highs of Tomahawk and find them too sharp. I sort of agree that there is some sharpness in the highs but with full foams that is tamed for me.

 It all comes down to personal preference and how you perceive the sound from the earbuds. We can see disagreement about ClieOS' list that some have voiced in this thread and how that led him to removing the list from here. Reviews and opinions should be viewed as a sort of guidlines and not objective descriptions.


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> Undoubtedly! However speaking from my recent purchases, that sound like would be favorite from that lot


 
 Just checked, it's only $11! Maybe I will chuck that in as well when I order the ES100.
 In the meantime, my son should be very happy to receive the rejects I throw out


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> Just checked, it's only $11! Maybe I will chuck that in as well when I order the ES100.
> In the meantime, my son should be very happy to receive the rejects I throw out


 

 Careful though, it is NOT for the treble sensitive or weak. The Seahf s a treble monster.


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> Careful though, it is NOT for the treble sensitive or weak. The Seahf s a treble monster.


 
 I am treble sensitive, but I can't imagine a DD driver sound being more trebly than a BA.
 I could just about live with **** 4in1's highs, any idea is Seahf is even more so?
  
 Though, IIRC, the E888 highs does roll off a bit. Maybe a tiny bit of EQing might be needed for the Seahf.


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> I am treble sensitive, but I can't imagine a DD driver sound being more trebly than a BA.
> I could just about live with **** 4in1's highs, any idea is Seahf is even more so?
> 
> Though, IIRC, the E888 highs does roll off a bit. Maybe a tiny bit of EQing might be needed for the Seahf.


 

 So dod I... and them I got the Seahf 32.
  
 I swear on god you can borrow it for FREE before plunking down 11 big ones.. Them again that is 6 bucks either way for us, so your call! they are a nice permanent place in my shelf until I find a dap that has no treble whatesoever and a fat bass bump.
  
 Agree on slight rollooff of Asura 2.0 It was my second earbud. I did not appreciate it much ethen, after Monk PLus of course but I am coming ot realize why it was part of the lineup... for the hi fi earbud fans from the 90s and 00s.


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> Strange, by the way. I consider myself slightly sensitive to sharp highs and sibilance, but I hear no sharp highs in my pair of straight plug TY HiZ 32. I use thin Monk+ foams. I find the original Monk to have much sharper highs. Overall I think those two sound quite similar but the TY HiZ 32 has got more bass and less sharp highs than the original Monk.
> 
> Monk+ is quite different compared to both the original Monk and TY HiZ 32.


 
 And I can agree with every single sentence above ^^^


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> So dod I... and them I got the Seahf 32.
> 
> I swear on god you can borrow it for FREE before plunking down 11 big ones.. Them again that is 6 bucks either way for us, so your call! they are a nice permanent place in my shelf until I find a dap that has no treble whatesoever and a fat bass bump.
> 
> Agree on slight rollooff of Asura 2.0 It was my second earbud. I did not appreciate it much ethen, after Monk PLus of course but I am coming ot realize why it was part of the lineup... for the hi fi earbud fans from the 90s and 00s.


 
 Now you have piqued my interest. If DDs can play so high, then well-tuned double DD earbuds (or IEMs) should be able to go toe-
 to-toe with multi-BAs. I must try the Seahf, you keep yours as your own reference of a trebly earbud. Thanks for offering.


----------



## golov17

purplesun said:


> Now you have piqued my interest. your own reference of a trebly earbud. Thanks for offering.


 VX Pro


----------



## Danneq

The treble master without competition is Hisoundaudio Living...


----------



## dearyon

I really enjoy these two, thanks sir @golov17 for the recommendation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 can't wait to compare them to TY Hi-Z HP-32 and Monk+


----------



## purplesun

golov17 said:


> VX Pro


 
 Sorry, I drift in/out head-fi forum every few years, so not quite up with the contextual shorthand that goes on around here.
 Are you suggesting VX pro sound like E888? Or does it sound trebly? Or possess muilt-ba like performances?


----------



## vapman

@dearyon which boarseman is that?


----------



## dearyon

vapman said:


> @dearyon which boarseman is that?


 
 left Boarseman k25 and right is Boarseman k25*s*


----------



## golov17

purplesun said:


> Sorry, I drift in/out head-fi forum every few years, so not quite up with the contextual shorthand that goes on around here.
> Are you suggesting VX pro sound like E888? Or does it sound trebly? Or possess muilt-ba like performances?


 Best high frequencies for their money, IMHO


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> Best high frequencies for their money, IMHO


 


 And Hisoundaudio Living most piercing highs for the money.

 How about green Musicmaker Ting? Pretty cheap and with focus on highs.


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> And Hisoundaudio Living most piercing highs for the money.
> 
> 
> How about green Musicmaker Ting? Pretty cheap and with focus on highs.


not tried any MusicMaker, sorry


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> not tried any MusicMaker, sorry


----------



## haiku

I think the sound of their in ears is spectacular, that´s why I ordered these little gems from 1more today.
  
  
 https://uk.1more.com/collections/in-ear-headphones/products/eo320-single-driver-in-ear-earpods-headphones?variant=25070447239
  
 Can´t wait!


----------



## Willber

haiku said:


> I think the sound of their in ears is spectacular, that´s why I ordered these little gems from 1more today.
> 
> https://uk.1more.com/collections/in-ear-headphones/products/eo320-single-driver-in-ear-earpods-headphones?variant=25070447239
> 
> Can´t wait!


 
  
 Much cheaper here:
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Best-Original-brand-1More-piston-xiaomi-earphone-In-Ear-Pod-Earbud-Headphones-HiFi-Stereo-Metal-Headset/32572936656.html


----------



## haiku

willber said:


> Much cheaper here:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Best-Original-brand-1More-piston-xiaomi-earphone-In-Ear-Pod-Earbud-Headphones-HiFi-Stereo-Metal-Headset/32572936656.html


 
  

 Yeah, but takes forever to arrive.


----------



## JASru

willber said:


> Much cheaper here:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Best-Original-brand-1More-piston-xiaomi-earphone-In-Ear-Pod-Earbud-Headphones-HiFi-Stereo-Metal-Headset/32572936656.html


 
 That's EO303. The 320 is available on Ali too. It is cheaper still.


----------



## haiku

jasru said:


> That's EO303. The 320 is available on Ali too. It is cheaper still.


 

 But I don´t want it in 6 weeks.


----------



## golov17

who knows what it is? 400 Ohm


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Review of TY-HIZ 650Ohm in Teiba Baidu
http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4787849598


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> who knows what it is? 400 Ohm


 
 Haedphone Association 400Ohm or 320Ohm


----------



## kurtextrem

Is anyone able to translate this? http://blog.livedoor.jp/headphone_metal/archives/52323624.html
 it's about VX Pro


----------



## ld100

kurtextrem said:


> Is anyone able to translate this? http://blog.livedoor.jp/headphone_metal/archives/52323624.html
> it's about VX Pro


 
  
 Part of it from Google:
  
 · The sound will be encouraged in if this sound let go of $ 69 good without complaint.
 - Rough impression of the sound in the earphone to the elegant treble distinctive earphone. Very musically good sound way to extend clean and sound field with a "natural spread, a little laid-back sound of the bass is firm and sounded in the quaint sound, there is no impression that attaches to the ear from the goodness of the growth of the high-frequency range is firmly insist sparkling and the sound is sound while leaving "
 - This time of sound in a state in which with the included sponge ear pads review. Impression that reduced that it is taken off the sponge ear pads bass is about 10%. (Towards the state that gave a balanced manner to also included sponge ear pads of sound I prefer)
 - The sound field is wider than typical earbud, rather than the size of the sound field that comes from missing sound like MusicMaker TO300, there is the impression that made the sound by which sounded a metal housing, the sound of the sound person might be similar to the Pinnacle P1 of MeeAudio.
 - Treble sounds a beautiful sound very relaxed. I cymbals sound or the like of the drum is sounded the sound to insist firmly glittering, but the sound growth of the good ear impression is likely to hear very without attaching to or stuck from is the sound of.
 The medium-range sound without dented in particular, this band is also growth in the sound there is a comfort that would involuntarily listening in the vocal, such as singing well the treble characteristic.
 And low range is sounding the sound with a little bit of spread. To say that the sound with a spread rather than the type, such as is also sound output itself has been a seasoned, sound, such as by adding a spread from the sound of the casing can be felt in a very natural sound for sound. Therefore wood base such as jazz sound source is played sound et al. A very listening Gotae yet natural.
 And separation is he relatively good, but in a typical death metal no problem feel like in the technical death metal, etc. there is a scene in which the low frequency range of the drum is no longer fully a little chase. (Confirmed by Shag Harbour's Visitors of CRYPTOPSY)
 · Compatibility of good sound source is raw instrument system of sound source (piano solo, etc.) and rock, pop, or would ballad like. Because me sounded a very natural sound earphone solo sound source, etc. of raw instrument system is me playing a note with Gotae listening breathtaking. The Koln Concert, etc. of Keith Jarrett heard in this earphone us really ringing sound like want listening look forever.


----------



## golov17

kurtextrem said:


> Is anyone able to translate this? http://blog.livedoor.jp/headphone_metal/archives/52323624.html
> it's about VX Pro


 https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://blog.livedoor.jp/headphone_metal/archives/52323624.html&usg=ALkJrhgysiegJyjNVVnMj4SbfHqkSba_4A


----------



## ozkan

Which earphone should the next logical upgrade over the Monk plus except Zen or Asura if someone is looking for better midrange resolution and better extension on both ends?


----------



## golov17

ozkan said:


> Which earphone should the next logical upgrade over the Monk plus except Zen or Asura if someone is looking for better midrange resolution and better extension on both ends?


try Boarseman mx98s


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I just looked at a few recent orders I made.  I realized that I have about 7 more pairs of earbuds coming.  Most are budget, with a few higher end thrown in there.
  
 I still don't know why I want this many or I feel the need to get more.
  
  
 That all said, there are a bunch I still want to hear and get my hands on.
  
 --


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> I just looked at a few recent orders I made.  I realized that I have about 7 more pairs of earbuds coming.  Most are budget, with a few higher end thrown in there.
> 
> I still don't know why I want this many or I feel the need to get more.
> 
> ...


 enthusiast of earbuds, maybe?


----------



## audio123

bloodypenguin said:


> I just looked at a few recent orders I made.  I realized that I have about 7 more pairs of earbuds coming.  Most are budget, with a few higher end thrown in there.
> 
> I still don't know why I want this many or I feel the need to get more.
> 
> ...


 

 give me your shopping list mate.


----------



## Willber

jasru said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Much cheaper here:
> ...


 
 Do you know if one is better than the other?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audio123 said:


> give me your shopping list mate.


 
  
 I've included prices in USD, but they do not include shipping:
  
  
 #1 *Vido Earbud* ($2.25) - I had one and my son broke it.  It was my favorite budget bud.  Seems to be a Version 2.0 out now, so I ordered one.

 #2 *Aigo A620* ($2.38) - I see this posted up on the "Earbud Lover Indonesia" Facebook page and wanted to check them out for myself.
  
 #3 *Newsmy P06* ($1.48) - It is most likely crap, but worst case, I will give it to someone at work to use.
  
 #4 *Xuehai MX500* ($4.19) - Impulse purchase, no idea if this is a cheap DIY, but I'll let you all know.  
  
 #5 *Teclast Earbud* ($2.25) - Another one I saw on "Earbud Lover Indonesia" Facebook page and thought, what the heck.
  
 #6 *T-Music Version2* ($12.89) - Looks just like a bunch of other random DIY earbuds out there, but I should have it soon to find out.
  
 #7 *MusicMaker TKY2 *($89.00) - There is going to be a delay on this, but my version might be a bit different.  More info to come.
  
  
 There are also a few others, but this is my confirmed list for now.  
  
 --


----------



## audio123

bloodypenguin said:


> I've included prices in USD, but they do not include shipping:
> 
> 
> #1 *Vido Earbud* ($2.25) - I had one and my son broke it.  It was my favorite budget bud.  Seems to be a Version 2.0 out now, so I ordered one.
> ...


 

 thanks i will order some 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 respect for u mate especially your excellent photography


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audio123 said:


> thanks i will order some
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you. I appreciate the kind words.  I love the combination of a good earbud, with a fun photo shoot.
  
 I have a lot more coming as well...


----------



## audio123

bloodypenguin said:


> Thank you. I appreciate the kind words.  I love the combination of a good earbud, with a fun photo shoot.
> 
> I have a lot more coming as well...


 

 easily you are one of the best photo taking reviewer on headfi.
 i can skip all the review words and buy a gear based on your photos


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audio123 said:


> easily you are one of the best photo taking reviewer on headfi.
> i can skip all the review words and buy a gear based on your photos


 
  
 I unfortunately do not have much time for written reviews lately, I've only done one full version in the last 4 months.
  
 However, not sure if you are aware, but I post up quite a few pictures on Instagram and Facebook if you want to follow me there.
  
 The links are in my sig.
  
 --


----------



## audio123

bloodypenguin said:


> I unfortunately do not have much time for written reviews lately, I've only done one full version in the last 4 months.
> 
> However, not sure if you are aware, but I post up quite a few pictures on Instagram and Facebook if you want to follow me there.
> 
> ...


 

 thanks!


----------



## JASru

willber said:


> Do you know if one is better than the other?


 
 No idea =/


----------



## Tomasz2D

golov17 said:


> not tried any MusicMaker, sorry


 
  
 What happened?  Oh, I guess, you just don't like triangle cases.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

tomasz2d said:


> What happened?  Oh, I guess, you just don't like triangle cases.


 
  
 I keep the triangle cases and throw away the earbuds.
  
 ..


----------



## vapman

bloodypenguin said:


> I keep the triangle cases and throw away the earbuds.
> 
> ..


 
  

 LMAO
  
  
@golov17: I have bought 4 different Musicmaker earbud and 2 Musicmaker IEM. I hated all of them. If our earbud taste is similar, you don't have to buy Musicmaker ever. That is my opinions.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> LMAO
> 
> 
> @golov17
> : I have bought 4 different Musicmaker earbud and 2 Musicmaker IEM. I hated all of them. If our earbud taste is similar, you don't have to buy Musicmaker ever. That is my opinions.


 Well, a source of inspiration for MM were mx980 at the very beginning, and I'm not really a fan of their sig, btw


----------



## ld100

Is this another new earbud?
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-Newest-X3-Music-Maker-Ting-In-Ear-Earphone-HIFI-Flat-Earphone-Fever-DIY-Full-Metal/32707090812.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.12.nopH7b&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_0,searchweb201602_4_10065_10068_10067_10069_418_10017_10060_9999_10061_10062_10057_10056_10055_10054_301_10033_10059_10032_10058_10073_10070_10052_10053_10050_10051,searchweb201603_3&btsid=31fa5bb4-1f70-46be-811d-667d6dd76fcf


----------



## vapman

Best $3 i ever spent on earbud burn in.


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> Best $3 i ever spent on earbud burn in.


 
 Back at you, vapman!

 Raspberry Pi and 3 stacked PCM5102a DACs running MoOde player.
 Looping Sheffield-XLO burn tones.
 Keeping it simple


----------



## Brian Coffey

purplesun said:


> Back at you, vapman!
> 
> 
> Raspberry Pi and 3 stacked PCM5102a DACs running MoOde player.
> ...



I love it


----------



## purplesun

brian coffey said:


> I love it


 
 Heh, anal & excessive? You think?
 No way.


----------



## Brian Coffey

purplesun said:


> Heh, anal & excessive? You think?
> No way.


 
 Nope just enough


----------



## Sempenyi

bloodypenguin said:


> I've included prices in USD, but they do not include shipping:
> 
> 
> #1 *Vido Earbud* ($2.25) - I had one and my son broke it.  It was my favorite budget bud.  Seems to be a Version 2.0 out now, so I ordered one.
> ...


 
  
 vido is kind of edifier h180. sounds darkish. basshead top tier.


ld100 said:


> Is this another new earbud?
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-Newest-X3-Music-Maker-Ting-In-Ear-Earphone-HIFI-Flat-Earphone-Fever-DIY-Full-Metal/32707090812.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.12.nopH7b&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_0,searchweb201602_4_10065_10068_10067_10069_418_10017_10060_9999_10061_10062_10057_10056_10055_10054_301_10033_10059_10032_10058_10073_10070_10052_10053_10050_10051,searchweb201603_3&btsid=31fa5bb4-1f70-46be-811d-667d6dd76fcf


 
 nothing new on musicmaker taobao yet.


----------



## kinetic758

bloodypenguin said:


> I've included prices in USD, but they do not include shipping:
> 
> 
> #1 *Vido Earbud* ($2.25) - I had one and my son broke it.  It was my favorite budget bud.  Seems to be a Version 2.0 out now, so I ordered one.
> ...




Why do you suspect that you're TKY2 will be different? Have they tweaked the sound a bit?


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> Well, a source of inspiration for MM were mx980 at the very beginning, and I'm not really a fan of their sig, btw


 
  
 None of MM's earbuds that I own reminds me of MX980/985 in anyway.
  
 MX980/985 is so popular among the Chinese that earbuds maker always keep referring back to it, but don't take their words too seriously. It is almost like saying having red paint and 4 wheels makes their cars looks like a Ferrari.


----------



## ZerkMeister

I cant wait for shozy bk to be released and to hear the reviews on them.
 Hurrryyyy!! lol


----------



## BloodyPenguin

ld100 said:


> Is this another new earbud?
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-Newest-X3-Music-Maker-Ting-In-Ear-Earphone-HIFI-Flat-Earphone-Fever-DIY-Full-Metal/32707090812.html


 
  
 I do not believe that is a MusicMaker earbud.
  
 Other pictures show it to have a different name and retail packaging.  No MusicMaker/Toneking product comes with retail packaging that I am aware of.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

kinetic758 said:


> Why do you suspect that you're TKY2 will be different? Have they tweaked the sound a bit?


 
  
 I do not have a TKY2 yet, I was just told by my supplier that mine might be different, thus there is a delay.  That is all I know. 
  
 I will update when I have more info, or finally get a TKY2 in my hands.
  
 --


----------



## kfarndog

purplesun said:


> Back at you, vapman!
> 
> Raspberry Pi and 3 stacked PCM5102a DACs running MoOde player.
> Looping Sheffield-XLO burn tones.
> Keeping it simple


 
 That is awesome.  Love the Pi and Moode, but I have never seen a setup quite like that.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> None of MM's earbuds that I own reminds me of MX980/985 in anyway.


Let's hope that one day I will decide to test MM products, OK


----------



## golov17

For earbuds-hunters on AE 


Spoiler



http://s.aliexpress.com/ZFrUbMF7

http://s.aliexpress.com/eU7RVBVJ

http://s.aliexpress.com/ZvMvINFf

http://s.aliexpress.com/eiYn2iua

http://s.aliexpress.com/FvUBjMfA


----------



## purplesun

kfarndog said:


> That is awesome.  Love the Pi and Moode, but I have never seen a setup quite like that.


 

 The DACs are DurioSound from Gravitech. Does a decent job but not quite as musical as I would like, I still prefer my Fiio E10k. The stacking is quite a cool idea - additional 3 db signal increase per DAC without additional noise or coloration from separate amplification.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Looks like the great ClieOs inspired headphone_metal to create their own list of earbud ranking hahahaha.

http://blog.livedoor.jp/headphone_metal/archives/52320906.html


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> Looks like the great ClieOs inspired headphone_metal to create their own list of earbud ranking hahahaha.
> 
> http://blog.livedoor.jp/headphone_metal/archives/52320906.html


 

 This is an awesome post. Thanks for finding it.


----------



## Danneq

Nice that they include vintage earbuds even if I don't agree with everything on the list. And it's sad how many kanjis I've forgot. 5 years ago I would have been able to read the text fairly well just using my denshi jisho for the 20-30% that I didn't know. Now I get stuck just a few words into the text. Well, that's what happens when you don't maintain newly acqired skills...


----------



## JASru

Reading through the last pages I realised, once again, how different sound preferences could be.

 I got Tomahawk some time ago and think it is great, though sometimes the highs are piercing (not very often).
 Maybe it is the fact that I have not much to compare it too - Monk+ and RX-1,  but for now it seems to be my cup of tea. 
 I wish the stage was bigger, but for this price I can't ask for more.
  
 p/s/ the step up from Tomahawk is Ting? or it has completely different sound signature?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> Nice that they include vintage earbuds even if I don't agree with everything on the list. And it's sad how many kanjis I've forgot. 5 years ago I would have been able to read the text fairly well just using my denshi jisho for the 20-30% that I didn't know. Now I get stuck just a few words into the text. Well, that's what happens when you don't maintain newly acqired skills...


 
 May I kindly know which brand of Denshi Jisho would you reconmend? I am currently using only JED on my andriod phone. 
 There are just so many models out there from Casio to Fujitsu......


vapman said:


> This is an awesome post. Thanks for finding it.


 
 No problem mate.


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> May I kindly know which brand of Denshi Jisho would you reconmend? I am currently using only JED on my andriod phone.
> There are just so many models out there from Casio to Fujitsu......
> No problem mate.


 


 I used to have an old Canon but that stopped working. Last year I bought a Casion EX-word at a BIC camera outlet when I went to Japan. I think I paid around 18000 yen, but it was a slightly older model that was being discontinued. Still it works well although lately I have read less and less in Japanese and therefor I lose more and more of the kanji that I learned a few years ago. So right now my wife uses it more than I do...

 I think my current Casio belongs to the 6xxx series. The simpler ones (like the 4xxx series) should be good enough for most intermediate readers. I have also used an app on my android phone (Aedict), but a real denshi jisho feels more solid than an app.


----------



## Nachash

mx98s or tp16? I don't want a v shaped earbud


----------



## tommo21

nachash said:


> mx98s or tp16? I don't want a v shaped earbud


 

 MX98s for sure. They're absolutely fabulous.


----------



## Ira Delphic

tommo21 said:


> nachash said:
> 
> 
> > mx98s or tp16? I don't want a v shaped earbud
> ...


 
  
 The MX98s is over 5x the cost over the Monk+ and how much better? The Monk+ is such an incredibly good value it makes me not want to buy any other earbud. 
 I can't get over what an amazing job VE did tuning the Monk+. I use an LG V10 to drive it. If I used more sophisticated gear - amp and player -  I could see trying something "better".


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> I used to have an old Canon but that stopped working. Last year I bought a Casion EX-word at a BIC camera outlet when I went to Japan. I think I paid around 18000 yen, but it was a slightly older model that was being discontinued. Still it works well although lately I have read less and less in Japanese and therefor I lose more and more of the kanji that I learned a few years ago. So right now my wife uses it more than I do...
> 
> I think my current Casio belongs to the 6xxx series. The simpler ones (like the 4xxx series) should be good enough for most intermediate readers. I have also used an app on my android phone (Aedict), but a real denshi jisho feels more solid than an app.


 
 Alright Thanks for the info mate!
 I will have a look at the Casio 4xxx series of Denshi Jisho.


----------



## Blueshound24

danneq said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I think it's not flagship, it will be a midfier ?
> ...




I have considered ordering the B200. Could anyone give impressions of them compared to my Monk+, TY Hi-Z HP-32 or Edifier P185?
TIA


----------



## tommo21

ira delphic said:


> The MX98s is over 5x the cost over the Monk+ and how much better? The Monk+ is such an incredibly good value it makes me not want to buy any other earbud.
> I can't get over what an amazing job VE did tuning the Monk+. I use an LG V10 to drive it. If I used more sophisticated gear - amp and player -  I could see trying something "better".


 
 I'm actually not that impressed with Monk + or VE Zen 2.0. Yes the Monk + is a $5 earbud, but who actually pays $5. Shipping is also $5, so it's a $10 earbud, get the ex pack, and it's a $15 earbud. Thats the same cost as the TP16 including shipping. The Phillips SHE3800 is much better than the Monk+ in my opinion. Also better than the Ty Hi-z 32. And that cost $3.81 shipped.I have no problem with bargains, but they also need to fit my taste. MX98s was a surprise to me, and I prefer that to the Cygnus. People need to hear for themselves what they like and with what equipment.
  
 I've listened to a lot of earbuds lately, and my top 5  in  no Special order:
  
 1. Philips SHE3800
 2. Moondrop VX Pro
 3. MX98s
 4. Tomahawk
 5. PHEB01 DDM
  
 Not making this list at the moment that I have: Cygnus, Zen 2.0, Monk+, TKY2, Ting, RX-1,TY Hi-z 32 and 150, Seahf 32 and 320ohm 3.0, TP16, Original Monk


----------



## mebaali

tommo21 said:


> Yes the Monk + is a $5 earbud, but who actually pays $5. Shipping is also $5, so it's a $10 earbud, get the ex pack, and it's a $15 earbud. Thats the same cost as the TP16 including shipping. The Phillips SHE3800 is much better than the Monk+ in my opinion. Also better than the Ty Hi-z 32. And that cost $3.81 shipped.I have no problem with bargains, but they also need to fit my taste.
> 
> 1. Philips SHE3800


 
 Totally agree on Philips SHE3800. To my ears, they are pure awesomesauce for just under 3.5 US$. Very musical (detailed too with brilliant imaging) yet balanced across the frequencies and fits superbly well for my ears (plus much easily driveable).


----------



## Ira Delphic

mebaali said:


> tommo21 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes the Monk + is a $5 earbud, but who actually pays $5. Shipping is also $5, so it's a $10 earbud, get the ex pack, and it's a $15 earbud. Thats the same cost as the TP16 including shipping. The Phillips SHE3800 is much better than the Monk+ in my opinion. Also better than the Ty Hi-z 32. And that cost $3.81 shipped.I have no problem with bargains, but they also need to fit my taste.
> ...


 
  
 I just ordered a SHE3800 from Fasttech. It took lots of self control not to order more than one. Will compare to the Monk+.


----------



## mebaali

ira delphic said:


> I just ordered a SHE3800 from Fasttech. It took lost of self control not to order more than one. Will compare to the Monk+.


 
 I hope they match with your aural preferences 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I have got two pairs (both sounding fantastic, one with foam cover and the other one naked), waiting for few replacement cables from AliEx and gonna try recabling one of these buds


----------



## vapman

tommo21 said:


> 1. Philips SHE3800
> 2. Moondrop VX Pro
> 3. MX98s
> 4. Tomahawk
> ...


 
  
 Interesting list.
 It's possible my Red Demun is a SHE3800 instead of H180 Edifier but i don't know.
 I'm still trying to find a place to buy myself a SHE3800 so I can try a stock one.
 I hated the Tomahawk but I love my MX98s a lot.
 I also thought the TY Hi-Z 32 was garbage - I wouldn't even recommend it to original Monk fans, although I've seen many posts saying they sound similar,, I don't hear it at all.
  
 I keep stalling on the Moondrop but it is showing up in more and more people's lists so maybe I will have to try one.
  
 Also a Monk+ with ePacket shipping (quick, reliable, trackable) is like $7 or $8, you CAN get a Monk for $5 if you want, you would just get really slow shipping. and the EX pack isn't mandatory. I can't imagine an earbud that is under $5 shipped is going to be sent in a way that is either quick or trackable. I could be wrong though. Even my TY Hi-Z 32 came out to just over $6 with shipping, and that was with horrendously slow untrackable Singapore Post. I think I got 2 separate VE orders delivered as I waited for the TY.


----------



## Willber

ira delphic said:


> mebaali said:
> 
> 
> > tommo21 said:
> ...


 
 I agree with a lot of what tommo and mebaali said but overall I prefer the Hi-Z 32 (v1) for its deeper bass and greater soundstage. The SHE3800 ranks above the Monk+ and RX-1, though, IMO. I am now waiting for my Hi-Z 32 (v2). Also thinking about the 1more EO320, I'd like to hear some impressions first..


----------



## vapman

ira delphic said:


> The MX98s is over 5x the cost over the Monk+ and how much better? The Monk+ is such an incredibly good value it makes me not want to buy any other earbud.
> I can't get over what an amazing job VE did tuning the Monk+. I use an LG V10 to drive it. If I used more sophisticated gear - amp and player -  I could see trying something "better".


 

 I have a headphone splitter with both plugged in so i put one in one ear and one in the other, and then some time with each individually to do a comparison for you.
  
 I have to admit there is hardly any difference. The only difference I can notice is the Monk+ sounds ever so slightly "flatter" compared to MX98s.
  
 If you feel you want more treble clarity or channel distinction, I would get the MX98s. However, it's so ridiculously similar to the Monk in sound, I can't say I am really happy having spent almost 30 bucks on it.
  
 I don't mind the slightly flat sound of the Monk+ at all but if it bothers you then maybe the MX98s is worth the money.
  
@Willber How do you know if it's a v1 or v2 TY Hi-Z? I bought mine from some random Ali store last month.


----------



## Willber

vapman said:


> @Willber How do you know if it's a v1 or v2 TY Hi-Z? I bought mine from some random Ali store last month.


 
 The v2 has an L-shaped plug, not sure about any other physical changes but they are supposed to sound slightly different.


----------



## vapman

willber said:


> The v2 has an L-shaped plug, not sure about any other physical changes but they are supposed to sound slightly different.


 

 Thanks bud! Mine is a L shaped plug. It is still on burn in time though and I wish to give it a few more days before I give it a serious listen.
  
 That reminds me, did the L plug Cygnus ever come out? Not that I want to replace mine, I've tried so hard to get the cable to turn green quickly


----------



## audio123

vapman said:


> Thanks bud! Mine is a L shaped plug. It is still on burn in time though and I wish to give it a few more days before I give it a serious listen.
> 
> That reminds me, did the L plug Cygnus ever come out? Not that I want to replace mine, I've tried so hard to get the cable to turn green quickly


 

 the v2 sounds good


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I know there is a lot of talk on here about "Which earbud is better than the other", however for me there really is only two categories:  The Good and Bad.
  
 If they are remotely good, I use them.  If they are bad, I just give them away or throw them in the trash.  
  
 I just love earbuds and I find a use for them all.  Some for bass, some for clarity, some for comfort and some for function.  
  
 For me and others like @golov17, I feel we just have such an appreciation for the earbud format, that we tend to like multiple versions for various reasons.  
  
  
 This is a big reason why I really have not done many reviews lately.  I just have been enjoying all my earbuds so much that I really do not like to pit them against each other anymore.  Instead focusing more on what I like about each model.  
  
 In the last year or so, I have found myself enjoying music again by not analyzing so much.  I got away from this when I was doing so many reviews as I was just breaking down headphones and not really having fun with them.  Earbuds have helped me to get my passion back.  This all said, I might do a review from time to time, but not very often.  However, you will see me post up all my new toys and some of my thoughts about them (along with some photos as well).
  
 I have un-subbcribed from most of the threads I used to follow on Head-Fi, however, the Earbud Round-Up will always be one I check multiple times a day.  I feel like after years of searching for the perfect headphone, I have found my true calling in the world of Earbuds.
  
 --


----------



## audio123

bloodypenguin said:


> I know there is a lot of talk on here about "Which earbud is better than the other", however for me there really is only two categories:  The Good and Bad.
> 
> If they are remotely good, I use them.  If they are bad, I just give them away or throw them in the trash.
> 
> ...


 

 the only way is to get all the earbuds


----------



## BloodyPenguin

audio123 said:


> the only way is to get all the earbuds


 
  
 Ha!  I used to feel this way, but to be honest, this can drive you nuts.  There are so many hard to get earbuds, that spending so much time trying to find them can be frustrating.  
  
 I see a lot of models that are either almost impossible to buy or others that are so expensive, I can't have them all.  So again, I just have learned to enjoy what I have and occasionally add a few more to my inventory.  
  
 Though, I will admit, there are a few earbuds that I REALLY want to try, including the new SHOZY Cygnus (Black).  Hopefully I can get a set, but if not, oh well.  
  
 --


----------



## audio123

bloodypenguin said:


> Ha!  I used to feel this way, but to be honest, this can drive you nuts.  There are so many hard to get earbuds, that spending so much time trying to find them can be frustrating.
> 
> I see a lot of models that are either almost impossible to buy or others that are so expensive, I can't have them all.  So again, I just have learned to enjoy what I have and occasionally add a few more to my inventory.
> 
> ...


 

 thats true mate we wanna try everything!


----------



## vapman

bloodypenguin said:


> Though, I will admit, there are a few earbuds that I REALLY want to try, including the new SHOZY Cygnus (Black).  Hopefully I can get a set, but if not, oh well.
> 
> --


 
 This is the only one I'm super impatient to find out about! The others I don't have yet like the Moondrop are interesting but not enough to buy a set when I have 4 or 5 other new earbuds on burn-in.
  
 And the Cygnus Black cable won't turn green. boooo.
  
 I agree 100% with earbuds helping to just enjoy music again. After a bad experience with electrostatic headphones that almost made me quit the hobby who would have thought earbuds would be what brought me back in. Then again I do remember obsessing over the Yuin when they came out.


----------



## sharkz

Hey Vapman, did you happen to get your Edimun yet? I've been really curious to see your impressions on it vs the Red Demun. Especially because of your love of tons of bass. The only other comparison I really have seen said the Demun was much more bass light, which sounds bad for the rock and or roll music I love so much.


----------



## Danneq

I have given up the quest to collect all earbuds. However I still buy a lot, and then try to sell when my collection reaches over 25 pairs. My ideal would be 20 pairs, but that seems impossible...


----------



## vapman

sharkz said:


> Hey Vapman, did you happen to get your Edimun yet? I've been really curious to see your impressions on it vs the Red Demun. Especially because of your love of tons of bass. The only other comparison I really have seen said the Demun was much more bass light, which sounds bad for the rock and or roll music I love so much.


 

 What?! Whoever said the Demun is bass light is wrong, had bass-less recordings, or didn't have their EQ on!
  
 I have a LOT of earbuds and the Red Demun has probably the most powerful and deepest bass of all except the Seahf 400ohm 3.0. And it doesn't require a crazy amp like the Seahf!
  
 The Seahf 400ohm 4.0 sucks and is worse than the Monk to me IMO.
  
 The Edimun is gonna be here any day now. I'm waiting to see if they show up in today's mail. Don't worry I will post all about them when I have em in my hands.
  


danneq said:


> I have given up the quest to collect all earbuds. However I still buy a lot, and then try to sell when my collection reaches over 25 pairs. My ideal would be 20 pairs, but that seems impossible...


 
  
 Same here. I have about 15. As long as you cdon't ount all the unopened Monks I have then it gets pretty excessive...


----------



## kurtextrem

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sound-by-human-audio-evolved-music-headphones/x/10793783#/
 Seems interesting. I guess it counts as earbud (see how the sound goes into the ear)


----------



## sharkz

Good to know about the Demun. My issue with the Edimun is it seems like its a long wait for delivery time, which doesn't work for my impatient self. It seems like the Demuns have a much quicker delivery time.


----------



## vapman

@Ira Delphic I forgot to mention i'm using a LG V10 as well. If that helps 
  
@sharkz To be honest neither of them are particularly speedy. My Red Demun showed up fairly quickly though, as did my bMac (the amp by the Edimun guys) but the bMac was already built and ready to go.. The good thing is they only ship EMS and they actually refunded some of my shipping money ($12) when I bought my Edimun v3 as shipping was less $ than they charged me. That was extremely nice of them and a very welcome surprise.
  
 (edit: Crap! my Edimun is stuck in customs. This never happens to me before 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I hope they let it free soon!)
  

  
  
 I know one other guy who bought an Edimun V3 same time as me but his isn't stuck in customs.


----------



## sharkz

That's no good. Hopefully it leaves customs soon. I've luckily never had that happen before, usually just leaves JFK and goes to Jamaica NY for sorting.


----------



## ozkan

mebaali said:


> Totally agree on Philips SHE3800. To my ears, they are pure awesomesauce for just under 3.5 US$. Very musical (detailed too with brilliant imaging) yet balanced across the frequencies and fits superbly well for my ears (plus much easily driveable).




Well, couldn't resist and placed an order for 2 pcs with tracking. Let's see how it will sound compared to my Monk/Monk+


----------



## vapman

ozkan said:


> Well, couldn't resist and placed an order for 2 pcs with tracking. Let's see how it will sound compared to my Monk/Monk+




Where you ordered from? Gearbest? I think i will grab a set or 2 as well


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Where you ordered from? Gearbest? I think i will grab a set or 2 as well


 https://m.fasttech.com/products/0/10005987/1460600-philips-she3800-3-5mm-earphone


----------



## Tomasz2D

jasru said:


> Reading through the last pages I realised, once again, how different sound preferences could be.
> 
> I got Tomahawk some time ago and think it is great, though sometimes the highs are piercing (not very often).
> Maybe it is the fact that I have not much to compare it too - Monk+ and RX-1,  but for now it seems to be my cup of tea.
> ...


 
 Despite price differences I wouldn't say Ting is step-up, it is just different sound signature.
 1. Both have similar tonality balance and soundstage width but Ting soundstage is deeper and more holographic.
 2. Tomahawk has closer soundstage placement, while in Ting's soundstage is farther placed.
 3. Tomahawk's sound is more direct and heavy, while Ting sound is lighter, more liquid and delicate.
 4. Tomahawk's sound is more grainy while Ting sound is smoother.
 So it really depends on your personal preferences which one you make like better.


----------



## ozkan

golov17 said:


> https://m.fasttech.com/products/0/10005987/1460600-philips-she3800-3-5mm-earphone




Yeah from fasttech.


----------



## sharkz

I've had two of those Philips earbuds in my cart at Fast Tech for the last two weeks but haven't pulled the trigger. Trying to decide if it will be worth the wait.


----------



## vapman

sharkz said:


> I've had two of those Philips earbuds in my cart at Fast Tech for the last two weeks but haven't pulled the trigger. Trying to decide if it will be worth the wait.




Theyd have been most of the way to you already though!


----------



## ozkan

sharkz said:


> I've had two of those Philips earbuds in my cart at Fast Tech for the last two weeks but haven't pulled the trigger. Trying to decide if it will be worth the wait.




I chose Registered Airmail w/Tracking (typically 10 to 14 business days in transit) which they charged $1.32 on check out. That's not a big money for tracking I think.


----------



## Tomasz2D

blueshound24 said:


> I have considered ordering the B200. Could anyone give impressions of them compared to my Monk+, TY Hi-Z HP-32 or Edifier P185?
> TIA


 
 Blox B200 compared to TY 32 and Monk Plus has thin, dry and trebly sound. On many recordings Strat and Tele are just piercing too bright in B200.


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> Blox B200 compared to TY 32 and Monk Plus has thin, dry and trebly sound. On many recordings Strat and Tele are just piercing too bright in B200.




Damn! I have a BE5 coming in the mail and hope it's not a disappointment. Sorry to hear this about the b200 man  hopefully you can find a treble-head to pass it onto!


----------



## Spider fan

ozkan said:


> I chose Registered Airmail w/Tracking (typically 10 to 14 business days in transit) which they charged $1.32 on check out. That's not a big money for tracking I think.


 
 I had bought 3 this morning since you get a discount for 3 or more.  Cant beat it 3 with Registered Airmail and Tracking for less than $10.


----------



## base08

Today I got my free replacement unit for the ty hiz 32, with the new L shaped plug, from Penon (great service) and in my perspective is still the same quality budget earbud with the same sound signature. 

Still a smooth, laid back listen, without the details or soundstage from higher tier earbuds, but nontheless a very confortable listen. A good alternative for the monk plus, with a bit more v shaped frequency response that extends more on the sub-bass frequency region.

So for those with already a good straight plug version you are not missing anything.


----------



## Blueshound24

tomasz2d said:


> blueshound24 said:
> 
> 
> > I have considered ordering the B200. Could anyone give impressions of them compared to my Monk+, TY Hi-Z HP-32 or Edifier P185?
> ...




Wow! Thanks for your input, you just saved me some cash! Really liking the M+ signature, especially with full foams. IMO it is somewhat 'similar' to HD650, however in No way it can compete with its finesse.


----------



## vapman

spider fan said:


> I had bought 3 this morning since you get a discount for 3 or more.  Cant beat it 3 with Registered Airmail and Tracking for less than $10.




I have 5 earbud burning in right now, balanced Asura and be5 in the mail, last thing i need to do is order 3 more! Argh.

But we all know i will.


----------



## Tomasz2D

blueshound24 said:


> Wow! Thanks for your input, you just saved me some cash! Really liking the M+ signature, especially with full foams. IMO it is somewhat 'similar' to HD650, however in No way it can compete with its finesse.


 
 Have you tried AuGlamour RX-1 already for very nice guitar tones, especially clean and slightly overdriven electric guitar tones?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

tomasz2d said:


> Have you tried AuGlamour RX-1 already for very nice guitar tones, especially clean and slightly overdriven electric guitar tones?


 
  
 Oh, that reminds me, I have not used my RX-1 in a little while.  I will have to give them some listening time tonight.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 --


----------



## Blueshound24

tomasz2d said:


> blueshound24 said:
> 
> 
> > Wow! Thanks for your input, you just saved me some cash! Really liking the M+ signature, especially with full foams. IMO it is somewhat 'similar' to HD650, however in No way it can compete with its finesse.
> ...


 
 No, but have seriously considered it.
 Mailman just showed up with the SHE3800 a few minutes ago. Very nice on initial brief listening!


----------



## vapman

Gonna go order the Philips right now. I will be excited to compare them to my Red Demun.
  
 I had two sets of Auglamous RX1 and sold them both! They're wonderful if you don't like strong bass. Unfortunately I love strong bass so they weren't keepers for me. Would easily recommend them to midrange fans.


----------



## Tomasz2D

blueshound24 said:


> No, but have seriously considered it.
> Mailman just showed up with the SHE3800 a few minutes ago. Very nice on initial brief listening!


 
 RX-1 highlights mids very nicely, the sonic range where guitar is seated. And blues is about guitar, right? I think you may give RX-1 a chanse instead of B200. RX-1 pairs pretty well both with acoustic and electric blues IMO. Anyway, one of the best clean electric guitar tones presentation in earbuds.


----------



## JASru

tomasz2d said:


> RX-1 highlights mids very nicely, the sonic range where guitar is seated. And blues is about guitar, right? I think you may give RX-1 a chanse instead of B200. RX-1 pairs pretty well both with acoustic and electric blues IMO. Anyway, one of the best clean electric guitar tones presentation in earbuds.


 
 I listen to blues and ambient via rx-1. I should note that they are very good for this kind of music.

 What can you guys recommend to me if I liked Tomahawk, but want somethnig better, but not too different from it?


----------



## JASru

3x 3800 ordered =) chose the cheapes option with track. The expectations are low, but so they were for monk+


----------



## Fabi

TY 32 2.0 and 400s burning-in.
 OOTB, very early impressions, same signature as TY 32 v1 (deep bass, natural mids, smooth treble), sounds very good for my taste, i.e. slightly warm and balanced sound earphones plugged in a neutral source.
 HP32 2.0 sounds around the same as v1, maybe slightly more opened but I'll let it burn-in to be sure.
 HP400s sounds overall more refined, more controlled and detailed than HP32 versions, not super hard to drive with powerful daps but shines with an amp of course.
 I'll see later with more burn-in. I can already say I like it!
  
 I think TY earbuds won't be for bassheads, trebleheads or V shaped lovers imho.
 I found TP16 (analytical, laidback, wide) and Seahf 32 (V shaped on the brighter side) very good for what it is but simply not my cup of tea when paired with the gear I have.


----------



## JASru

A question to Zen and Seahf/TY-hiz(high impedence) owners what do you use as a portable amp for these? I know it is a bit of an off-top, so please excuse me.


----------



## vapman

jasru said:


> A question to Zen and Seahf/TY-hiz(high impedence) owners what do you use as a portable amp for these? I know it is a bit of an off-top, so please excuse me.


 

 Cayin C5 - great, best soundstage, easily available.
 Bengkel Macro bMac - currently out of stock until Version 3 is ready. I have a Version 2.
 FiiO E12 - never owned it myself but i know lots of people who love it and say it is very powerful.


----------



## JASru

vapman said:


> Cayin C5 - great, best soundstage, easily available.
> Bengkel Macro bMac - currently out of stock until Version 3 is ready. I have a Version 2.
> FiiO E12 - never owned it myself but i know lots of people who love it and say it is very powerful.


 
 Ain't there anything cheaper that can drive them?)


----------



## mochill

Venture Electronics RA Plus.


----------



## vapman

@mochill seriously dude? A guy asks for something cheaper than $100 and you recommend a $98 device.
  
 Quote:


jasru said:


> Ain't there anything cheaper that can drive them?)


 

 Well those three I listed ($120, $115, and $100 in order I listed them) will all do the job amazingly.
  
 I did not recommend the FiiO E18 because it does not have the juice for high impedance buds. The FiiO E11 has a comparable amount of power to the E18.
  
 Creative E1 MIGHT be able to do the job but like the E18 and E11 might not provide enough volume if the headphone is not sensitive enough.
  
 Your best bet at guarenteed good volume is to get one of the $100+ amps.
  
 To be perfectly honest - a desktop stereo amplifier/receiver will probably do the job as good or better than any headphone amp in the sub $100 class. Go to your local Goodwill and grab a decent looking one. I have a Technics receiver I paid $25 for and not only does the headphone out sound good, it can push _several watts_


----------



## JASru

mochill said:


> Venture Electronics RA Plus.


 
 Is it enough? I though only RA 2 is powerfull enough for Zen.


----------



## JASru

Anyone tried BlueBird U6?
 It is on Penon.
 I was looking at it, but there is no review on it.
 I posted to portamp section, but no reply so far.


----------



## vapman

jasru said:


> Is it enough? I though only RA 2 is powerfull enough for Zen.


 

 i love VE, i own every earbud they make. but RA Plus with a battery is more expensive than Fiio E12 and about the same price as Cayin C5.
  
  


jasru said:


>


 

@peter123 is the only person i know who has had a Bluebird U6. maybe he can help? Sorry to call you to the thread, peter.


----------



## JASru

vapman said:


> i love VE, i own every earbud they make. but RA Plus with a battery is more expensive than Fiio E12 and about the same price as Cayin C5.
> 
> 
> 
> @peter123 is the only person i know who has had a Bluebird U6. maybe he can help? Sorry to call you to the thread, peter.


 
 Thanks a lot. Not to derail the thread any more I think I will ask him into PM. Thanks again.


----------



## mochill

jasru said:


> mochill said:
> 
> 
> > Venture Electronics RA Plus.
> ...


 

 ​it is enough , but the 2.0 is more powerful if you need  , i also own all the VE stuff


----------



## vapman

Ehhhh... I think my earbud burn in plan backfired.

I'm gonna spend the rest of the day untangling 



Spoiler: warning, messy cables, you have been warned





this image is just for laughs (or cringes) - i have since wrapped them up all neatly with little cable ties 



Some good news though: After a couple days burn in I find the TY Hi-Z 32 to be much, much better than it was out of the box. Enjoying some early 90's acid house with it right now. Deeper bass, grainier treble, less midrange detail & smoothness when compared to Monk Plus, but definitely a fun sound and preferable for certain genres. I find it to have too bright treble sometimes though.


----------



## robervaul

The next IEM LZ will have an Earbud nozzles.


----------



## jant71

robervaul said:


> The next IEM LZ will have an Earbud nozzles.


 

 Do you mean it is an earbud that converts ala Yuin OK with nozzles that attach?


----------



## vapman

TY Hi-Z 32 is most excellent with some sludge metal. Has just a tiny bit more bite than the Monk does for a more energetic sound.
  
 Definitely not a do-it-all bud like the Monk, but Melvins sound quite good on TY 32.


----------



## jant71

Hmm, nice to hear they are improving. I might know how the Hi-Z 32 sound right about now but for a moron postal worker. They don't really try to deliver. 7:30PM everyone home but they don't knock or ring. And this winner gives me a "receptacle blocked" message on tracking because I have a mailbox that you drop the mail in the top and then you unlock a bottom door with a key to get it out. Apparently they couldn't figure it out.


----------



## Willber

jant71 said:


> Hmm, nice to hear they are improving. I might *know how* the Hi-Z 32 right about now but for a moron postal worker.


 
 Now have?


----------



## jant71

Fixed. I was trying to juggle too many tasks at one time and not paying attention


----------



## vapman

jant71 said:


> Hmm, nice to hear they are improving. I might know how the Hi-Z 32 sound right about now but for a moron postal worker. They don't really try to deliver. 7:30PM everyone home but they don't knock or ring. And this winner gives me a "receptacle blocked" message on tracking because I have a mailbox that you drop the mail in the top and then you unlock a bottom door with a key to get it out. Apparently they couldn't figure it out.


 

 Sounds like your postman needs to re-take motor skills class.

 Sorry that you are still Hi-Z-less 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 That said, i'd be interested to know if you think they sound rough out of the box but burn in well. I never know if it's physical or psychological, but I swear i only gave them maybe 20 seconds of listening before letting them burn in for a day or 2.


----------



## Willber

jant71 said:


> Fixed. I was trying to juggle too many tasks at one time and not paying attention


 
 It's a minor thing, but it doesn't looked fixed to me...


----------



## jant71

vapman said:


> Sounds like your postman needs to re-take motor skills class.
> 
> Sorry that you are still Hi-Z-less
> 
> ...


 
 Got my normal mail fine 2 hours earlier. Problem is it came from another facility and not my P.O. So I can't go and pick it up tomorrow either it seems. Wonder if there will be a repeat performance tomorrow


----------



## vapman

I still think the original Monk is better than the TY Hi-Z 32, but they're ridiculously close. The original Monk has a sweeter & more detailed midrange. Mids are a bit more recessed on the TY. Highs are pretty much the same but they seem more prominent on the TY because of the lesser midrange i think?
  
 edit: I gotta admit I like the TY more than the MX98s. The Boarseman has too forward mids for my liking. I think mids fans would like this earbud though....


----------



## basketballTaco

Clumsy me decided to order the MrZ Tomahawk before noticing that AuGlamour RX-1 is less expensive at $23. (I wanted the cheapest "contender" earbud). Anyways, can someone compare and contrast these two? Or at least describe the RX since there aren't any reviews for it on head fi while the Tomahawks have several. I'll probably pick up the RX if it seems different enough from the Tomahawk and keep the one I like more.


----------



## fairx

tomasz2d said:


> RX-1 highlights mids very nicely, the sonic range where guitar is seated. And blues is about guitar, right? I think you may give RX-1 a chanse instead of B200. RX-1 pairs pretty well both with acoustic and electric blues IMO. Anyway, one of the best clean electric guitar tones presentation in earbuds.


 
 I can concur that. they sound so.. "electric"..


----------



## fairx

basketballtaco said:


> Clumsy me decided to order the MrZ Tomahawk before noticing that AuGlamour RX-1 is less expensive at $23. (I wanted the cheapest "contender" earbud). Anyways, can someone compare and contrast these two? Or at least describe the RX since there aren't any reviews for it on head fi while the Tomahawks have several. I'll probably pick up the RX if it seems different enough from the Tomahawk and keep the one I like more.


 
 I own both, tomahawk is better overall IMO, but RX-1 really excels in mids but not s much in bass except sub bass.
  
 Tomahawk is the "wierdest" of all my iem or earbud. others sounds like a flat paintings in comparison, while tomahawk is like you can focus more, see more (hear more). It's not 3D.. what's the words.. it's like swimming in music, *Immersing* might be the word. Sorry English is not my 1st langage.
  
 while I have something I can talk about RX-1 (see above), I have much more praise for Tomahawk.


----------



## magitka27

vapman said:


> What?! Whoever said the Demun is bass light is wrong, had bass-less recordings, or didn't have their EQ on!
> 
> I have a LOT of earbuds and the Red Demun has probably the most powerful and deepest bass of all except the Seahf 400ohm 3.0. And it doesn't require a crazy amp like the Seahf!
> 
> ...


 
 i'm planning to buy the seahf 400ohm 4.0 
 but after i saw your comment i think i need to re-consider the upgrade target XD
  
 the 150ohm 3.0 sounds really enjoyable to my ears and setup for easy listening , and i'm started to think about an upgrade XD
  
 why do you think the 400ohm 4.0 is sucks vapman? is it not worth for the price? (except your bass-loving soundsig preference)

 i heard too about the 400ohm 3.0 bass quantity and quality, but i prefer the treble to sound like in my 150ohm as the seller said its not well-extended as in 150ohm so the aim moved into 400ohm 4.0


----------



## vapman

magitka27 said:


> i'm planning to buy the seahf 400ohm 4.0
> but after i saw your comment i think i need to re-consider the upgrade target XD
> 
> the 150ohm 3.0 sounds really enjoyable to my ears and setup for easy listening , and i'm started to think about an upgrade XD
> ...


 

 Because the 400ohm 4.0 sounds almost exactly like the Boarseman MX98s, which is $28, looks better, and low impedance. So i do not think it is worth the price. I have both on hand right now.
  
 The only thing that made the 400ohm 3.0 special was its recessed mids and strong bass.
 The 400ohm 4.0 sounds like any other mid oriented bud with grainy mids and weak bass.
  
 If you like that sound signature, get the 400ohm 3.0 while you can.
 TY Hi-Z 32 is the closest to this that you can get in my experience.


----------



## magitka27

vapman said:


> Because the 400ohm 4.0 sounds almost exactly like the Boarseman MX98s, which is $28, looks better, and low impedance. So i do not think it is worth the price. I have both on hand right now.
> 
> The only thing that made the 400ohm 3.0 special was its recessed mids and strong bass.
> The 400ohm 4.0 sounds like any other mid oriented bud with grainy mids and weak bass.
> ...


 
 noted ahahha
 sorry im asking too much because i dont have any idea about earbuds world, 

 i already have an iem to accomodate my basshead needs, im looking for some easy listening earbud as i said before

 looks like i need to do another "sacrifice" like i did with iem XD

 what do you think about shozy cygnus and musicmaker ting vapman? have you tried those? or maybe you already have it ?


----------



## vapman

magitka27 said:


> noted ahahha
> sorry im asking too much because i dont have any idea about earbuds world,
> 
> i already have an iem to accomodate my basshead needs, im looking for some easy listening earbud as i said before
> ...


 
 Never heard Ting - I had a couple Musicmaker earbud and never liked them. Ting might be good, but i don't know.
 I have a Cygnus. IT is great and I love it but it has a pretty aggressive sound, like Boarseman MX98s.
 If you want an easy listening earbud and don't have a monk plus....  get a Qian39 for a budget earbud.
 Asura 2.0 for a more expensive bud. RX1 was pretty laid back if i remember correctly.


----------



## magitka27

vapman said:


> Never heard Ting - I had a couple Musicmaker earbud and never liked them. Ting might be good, but i don't know.
> I have a Cygnus. IT is great and I love it but it has a pretty aggressive sound, like Boarseman MX98s.
> If you want an easy listening earbud and don't have a monk plus....  get a Qian39 for a budget earbud.
> Asura 2.0 for a more expensive bud. RX1 was pretty laid back if i remember correctly.


 
 hmmm i tried monk+ but i didnt like how it sounds, or maybe i miss-interpreted my target soundsig? XD sorry dont take it too deep, im in deep confusion now

 Qian39, Ve Asura 2.0 , and auglamour rx1 , noted 


 will try to borrow them or just sacrifce to buy them XD

 so you vote for cygnus instead 400ohm 4.0 from seahf? is there anything else that i could try / buy in that price range ? 

 maybe in IDR 1200000 max budget, or $100 maximum


----------



## vapman

magitka27 said:


> hmmm i tried monk+ but i didnt like how it sounds, or maybe i miss-interpreted my target soundsig? XD sorry dont take it too deep, im in deep confusion now
> 
> 
> Qian39, Ve Asura 2.0 , and auglamour rx1 , noted
> ...




What didnt you like about monk+? That will help give the best suggestions.


----------



## Sehn82

jasru said:


> Anyone tried BlueBird U6?
> It is on Penon.
> I was looking at it, but there is no review on it.
> I posted to portamp section, but no reply so far.


 
  
 I just received the U3 mini (supposedly their newest product released in June) and have been impressed so far. Just ordered a MUSES02 which was recommended by the seller. Can't wait for the results.
  
 The default OPA2604 is good. Soundstage is reduced a smidge but the separation improvement is very obvious. U6 should give u something similar (with more battery life and a gain setting).


----------



## magitka27

vapman said:


> What didnt you like about monk+? That will help give the best suggestions.


 
 the treble not extended and sparkly, a little bit shy to my preference ... i cant feel its soundstage too (or maybe i plugged it into wrong setup, i just borrowed it)
 and its not as detailed as my seahf now, 

 but the vocal seems fine, but i dont like its treble output... 

 sorry if that just giving a little clue, im finding a hard time just to describe what i've heard and put it into a simple words


----------



## vapman

magitka27 said:


> the treble not extended and sparkly, a little bit shy to my preference ... i cant feel its soundstage too (or maybe i plugged it into wrong setup, i just borrowed it)
> and its not as detailed as my seahf now,
> 
> but the vocal seems fine, but i dont like its treble output...
> ...


 

 Seahf 32 ohm, Musicmaker Tomahawk, Shozy Cygnus, Boarseman MX98s.


----------



## magitka27

vapman said:


> Seahf 32 ohm, Musicmaker Tomahawk, Shozy Cygnus, Boarseman MX98s.


 
 need to hunt those in locals here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 thanks for your recommendation mate, really helpful 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 while producing more money to afford them in the future im enjoying my fiio x1+q1 combo with 150ohm 3.0


----------



## JASru

basketballtaco said:


> Clumsy me decided to order the MrZ Tomahawk before noticing that AuGlamour RX-1 is less expensive at $23. (I wanted the cheapest "contender" earbud). Anyways, can someone compare and contrast these two? Or at least describe the RX since there aren't any reviews for it on head fi while the Tomahawks have several. I'll probably pick up the RX if it seems different enough from the Tomahawk and keep the one I like more.


have both right now. They are very different. Tmoahawk is better for intense music like hardware rock, post rock, glitch and so on. While rx-1 is sooo good with chill, ambient, soul anď blues. Get two if it is possible. Anyway getting one rx-1 is a good deal because of package. Even if you do not like the sounds sig (which is imo good, but not all-rounder) you are left with a lot of stuff.


----------



## Townyj

magitka27 said:


> the treble not extended and sparkly, a little bit shy to my preference ... i cant feel its soundstage too (or maybe i plugged it into wrong setup, i just borrowed it)
> and its not as detailed as my seahf now,
> 
> but the vocal seems fine, but i dont like its treble output...
> ...


 
 Check out the cheaper TP16 aswell... Treble is great. I to found the Monk+ way to boring and dark sounding.


----------



## vapman

I want to give tg16 a try some day. Seahf 32 is for DT990 fans IMO. I can't believe how much better TY Hi Z 32 got after letting it burn in, but it is about as bright as i can handle.


----------



## magitka27

townyj said:


> Check out the cheaper TP16 aswell... Treble is great. I to found the Monk+ way to boring and dark sounding.


 
 cant thank enough for your recommendation too, 
 will try to find this in local store here
 never buy any of these things outside indonesia, XD

 yeah its too dark somehow, but it is a great earbud for its price,


----------



## purplesun

Monk plus just arrived. Couldn't help myself and had a listen before burn-in.
  
 This is more my taste than TY Hi-Z. Less bloated bass than TY (still way more than E888 though). Better left/right separation & less treble-shy than TY. Seems a good halfway compromise between E888 and MX500. Will burn it in for next 24 hours and listen again.
  
 Edit: Ignore my views. Both earbuds were not sufficiently burned-in.


----------



## Townyj

magitka27 said:


> cant thank enough for your recommendation too,
> 
> will try to find this in local store here
> 
> ...




Would recommend trying to source them from Penon Audio if possible. Fast reliable shipping  if you want more sparkle then the Monk+ for around the same price its worth a shot.


----------



## Saoshyant

My earbuds order from Penon left Hong Kong on the 12th, so hopefully either it'll show up in the US soon, or it's already here and tracking isn't updating.  It'll be my first earbud purchase for both TY and MM.  The only other MM experience I have is with the TK11, quite enjoyable hybrid.  Also I'm really enjoying the SeaHF @vapman


----------



## kurtextrem

Those who have TY Hi-Z or SeaHF buds with a higher Ohm (320+), would you say they're an upgrade to Cygnus?


----------



## Saoshyant

@kurtextrem For the SeaHF I have (320 & Vapman will have to speak up on the specific model as I don't remember) the balancing is very much intended to be different than the Cygnus.  The aim of the Cygnus is vocal clarity where the SeaHF puts a bit more weight in the lower end.  If you're after a vocals earbud, the SeaHF I have wouldn't be the answer to me at least.  The vocals are decent, but the Cygnus is better.  Then again, this is also a less expensive earbud too.  I would say for my tastes, the SeaHF is certainly good enough on the vocal-based music I've listened to so far.  The thing to keep in mind is, Cygnus is close to the top for earbuds by my ears, and I'm unsure there is anything out there that specifically can surpass it for it's strength.
  
 Now, all this is off the assumption that you have the Cygnus for it's vocal capabilities, but I very well might be wrong.


----------



## kurtextrem

saoshyant said:


> @kurtextrem For the SeaHF I have (320 & Vapman will have to speak up on the specific model as I don't remember) the balancing is very much intended to be different than the Cygnus.  The aim of the Cygnus is vocal clarity where the SeaHF puts a bit more weight in the lower end.  If you're after a vocals earbud, the SeaHF I have wouldn't be the answer to me at least.  The vocals are decent, but the Cygnus is better.  Then again, this is also a less expensive earbud too.  I would say for my tastes, the SeaHF is certainly good enough on the vocal-based music I've listened to so far.  The thing to keep in mind is, Cygnus is close to the top for earbuds by my ears, and I'm unsure there is anything out there that specifically can surpass it for it's strength.
> 
> Now, all this is off the assumption that you have the Cygnus for it's vocal capabilities, but I very well might be wrong.


 
 Thank you! I guess I have a rather strange purpose for my earbuds: I mainly use them for gaming. But I listen to EDM and German rap too.
 Currently I'm thinking of buying either VX Pro, TY2, LD-3.0 400 Ohm or this weird thing: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/European-high-impedance-headphones-guild-400-flat-head-headset/32666108405.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.263.kaynah


----------



## AkashS04

I am a Music Lover and owns iPod Nano 7. I unfortunately exchanged iPod Nano 1st gen under Nano replacement program and i was a mistake because iPod Nano 7 sound quality is no where near 1st Gen. 1st Gen sound was having some Bass and Warmness in Sound but 7th Gen is missing them completely. I did little bi of research for this reason and came to know that Apple changed the Sound Chip from Nano 3rd Gen onwards (and some model of Classic and Shuffle and also Touch and iPhone too). 
  
 In short, I am disappointed to hear this. Currently (and previously also) using  Old Apple Earphones and recently ordered Apple Earpods. Hope that will be comfortable and add some Warmness and Bass in my iPod Nano 7. 
  
 Here, I need some suggestions from you. Can anyone pls suggest good Budget earbuds which has very Warm and Bass Sound signature. I personally prefer my old Apple Earphones and NOT looking for In-Canal/IEMs. I don't feel comfortable in them as I tend to hear my own voice very loud when speaking while wearing them. They just make your own voice sounding very unnatural. That's why after buying JVC FX3X and TDK (some bass heavy model), I am not using  them at all. 
  
 So here, I need something which might not have very good seal but should be comfortable and solve my vacuum problem (or hearing own voice loudly). I don't mind compromising little clarity and Highs and that is already there plenty in my iPod Nano 7.
  
 I am also considering buying JVC FXT-100 or FXT-200 (one of them). The issue is that I send my iPod nano 1st gen in replacement and got 7th Gen in return which does not have good sound quality at all (compare to Nano 1st, it is no where near). There is no Bass or Warmness in sound and the reason I found is change in Sound Chip (since iPod Nano 3rd Gen). Now with current earbuds, I am not getting good sound at all and trying to gram some old iPod Nano 1st Gen as well. But I am wondering if buying a really good earphones will give me the same or better sound (like Nano 1st Gen). One more issue is that I don't want fully in-canal or in-ear type earphones as they create vacuum in ears and I tend to hear my own voice very loud which I don't like. I also don't want something stuffed in my ears which I feel. From the above list ( FXT-100 or FXT-200), which one is having thumping and booming Bass with very Warmness as well as good clarity (but not harsh or sharp). I am also considering B&O H3 as that is no fully in ear ones so might not give me vacuum issue. The hole behind these earphones (open back kind) can help not creating vacuum issue?  Pls suggest which is better from these according to my req and also if Nano 1st Gen is MUST for getting good sound? Pls also suggest how is ATH-C505i. 
  
 In last few days, I returned FIIO EM3 and Apple Earpod also. Apple Esrpod were ok (though below expectation but better than EM3) but they were so uncomfortable that I could not wear for even 30 min. Or shall I buy new set of Old Apple Earbuds again (which comes with iPhone 4 or 3)?
  
 Again, I am looking for good earbuds which are not in-canal and have heavy bass and very warm sound signature. Also, pls advise if there is any Music store in NY where I can go and try few earbuds as well. Thanks.
  
  
 Regards,
 Akash


----------



## Saoshyant

I know I'd find EDM a little dull with Cygnus.  With some bass boost, the SeaHF I have has some really decent bass for an earbud, probably the best I've heard so far.  It's enough for me to enjoy the little bit of trip hop I have.


----------



## kurtextrem

saoshyant said:


> I know I'd find EDM a little dull with Cygnus.  With some bass boost, the SeaHF I have has some really decent bass for an earbud, probably the best I've heard so far.  It's enough for me to enjoy the little bit of trip hop I have.


 
 I have the Seahf 3.0 150 Ohm and it is too "dark" for my taste


----------



## jamesbdh

After all these earbuds, I still find that the original Monk is just a great all rounder. I have found buds with better mid range, better extension, better sound stage.  But the monk just puts the best averages together.  
  
 out of my recent buds (again I prefer neutral/mid centric, really wide soundstage, clean details, and good extension into sub bass)
 Saehf 3.0 150 Ohm.  Less detailed less stage than 400
 Saehf 3.0 400 Ohm - Amazing wide sound stage.  Definitely a brighter earbud but the bass extension is excellent.  It has that impact but is not bloated or anything so to me it does not over power anything.  I actually put a bit of bass boost on.
 Boarsmen mx98s - great sonding but for me the lack of soundstage keeps it out of the top for me.
 TP16 - I love these.  I would say not as flat as I would like and could be a bit more detailed but a great great bud for the price.
  
  
 That being said.  I really love the crazy wide sound stage of the saehf 3.0 400 anyone have a recommendation for something similar but not as bright, more neutral or mid.  I keep wanting to get Cyngus but it is a big step up and not sure if it will have the soundstage that I will like even though the sound signature seems like what I like.


----------



## AkashS04

From the below list, which earbuds is having deepest Bass and Warmest Sound Signature? Pls advise. 
  
  
 Quote:


clieos said:


> Sennheiser MX985, Blox TM7, Venture Electronic Zen 1.0, Rose Technology Mojito.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## purplesun

akashs04 said:


> Again, I am looking for good earbuds which are not in-canal and have heavy bass and very warm sound signature. Also, pls advise if there is any Music store in NY where I can go and try few earbuds as well. Thanks.


 
 TY Hi-Z 32 is probably a good starting point for you. It's cheap with strong bass. It's well known among the people here. So someone should be able to advise you which other earbud may better suit you, if TY Hi-Z is 32 is not to your liking.


----------



## magitka27

kurtextrem said:


> I have the Seahf 3.0 150 Ohm and it is too "dark" for my taste


 
  
 the 150ohm is too dark ??
 i thought its a bright earbud, but yeah mileage may vary 
 can you tell me your setup mate? 


jamesbdh said:


> After all these earbuds, I still find that the original Monk is just a great all rounder. I have found buds with better mid range, better extension, better sound stage.  But the monk just puts the best averages together.
> 
> out of my recent buds (again I prefer neutral/mid centric, really wide soundstage, clean details, and good extension into sub bass)
> Saehf 3.0 150 Ohm.  Less detailed less stage than 400
> ...


 
 so 3.0 400ohm is a brighter than 150ohm? im confused about that bcs the one which sell the seahf here says its darker than the 150ohm,


----------



## mochill

Zen 2.0


----------



## jamesbdh

magitka27 said:


> the 150ohm is too dark ??
> i thought its a bright earbud, but yeah mileage may vary
> can you tell me your setup mate?
> so 3.0 400ohm is a brighter than 150ohm? im confused about that bcs the one which sell the seahf here says its darker than the 150ohm,


 

 I am having connection issues with music at the moment, not great reception here, but I felt the saehf 150 and saehf 400 sounded similar in sound signature.  I would say that the extension, detail, and sound stage were all better on 400.  This could make it darker for some people.   I will test the 2 specifically again later.


----------



## magitka27

jamesbdh said:


> I am having connection issues with music at the moment, not great reception here, but I felt the saehf 150 and saehf 400 sounded similar in sound signature.  I would say that the extension, detail, and sound stage were all better on 400.  This could make it darker for some people.   I will test the 2 specifically again later.


 
 take your time mate, i will wait here patiently 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 just curious about their differences as they stay in different price level ahhaha


----------



## 93EXCivic

Well I ordered the Philips SHE3800 (well two I want to try modifying the other one). I swear I am done after that until I put together my earbud and then I want to get something a bit nicer.
  
 I still am not convinced by the TY Hi-Z 32. I am trying to decide if I like the Monk+ or T-Music V1 better.


----------



## Saoshyant

jasru said:


> Ain't there anything cheaper that can drive them?)


 
 Well, technically my Fiio E6 can drive a 320 ohm SeaHF.  Bass is still fairly decent, but not a Cayin C5 decent.  But a Sansa Clip+ to Fiio E6 can definitely drive these louder than I'd want to listen to, so yes, there's an inexpensive setup that can handle it.  It won't be ideal, but for it's tiny size, it's actually a pretty tempting setup.  Brainwavz AP001 is a slightly odd amp, but bass feels more prominent than E6, and also using the Clip+ Rockboxed, I listen at -10 to -15 on the dap.  The way the AP001 works is instead of using it via Line Out and it having it's own volume control, it's designed to be adjusted via the dap.  I don't know how bad availability is on it or the E6, but the E6 has been updated to the A1.  Both ran around $30.  E6 gives you some basic bass boosting, and AP001 offers 2 headphone out.  My next two amps that I'd try would be Cayin C5 or Fiio E12.  There might also be another option in the M-Audio Bass Traveler.
  
 Unfortunately, I haven't really done any real budget amp research lately, so I can't offer any other suggestions.


----------



## Tomasz2D

jasru said:


> What can you guys recommend to me if I liked Tomahawk, but want somethnig better, but not too different from it?


 
  
 This is difficult to give some simple recommendation here. But are you ready for Red De'mun right now?


----------



## AkashS04

mochill said:


> Zen 2.0


 
 I don;t think that I will be able to play Zen 2.0 on my iPod or even Mobile Phone. It is 320Ω earbuds and will surely require amp to play.


----------



## Saoshyant

akashs04 said:


> I don;t think that I will be able to play Zen 2.0 on my iPod or even Mobile Phone. It is 320Ω earbuds and will surely require amp to play.


 
  
 You might want to look into the Edifier H180.  It's inexpensive, bass is fun and more prominent than most earbuds I've tried so far, and is easily driven.  I think it's currently $13 on Amazon.


----------



## ozkan

akashs04 said:


> I don;t think that I will be able to play Zen 2.0 on my iPod or even Mobile Phone. It is 320Ω earbuds and will surely require amp to play.







saoshyant said:


> You might want to look into the Edifier H180.  It's inexpensive, bass is fun and more prominent than most earbuds I've tried so far, and is easily driven.  I think it's currently $13 on Amazon.




+1. If you order Hiegi donut foams I think you'll like them even more.


----------



## ClieOS

akashs04 said:


> .... I personally prefer my old Apple Earphones and *NOT looking for In-Canal/IEMs*. I don't feel comfortable in them as I tend to hear my own voice very loud when speaking while wearing them. They just make your own voice sounding very unnatural. That's why after buying JVC FX3X and TDK (some bass heavy model), I am not using  them at all.
> ... *I am also considering buying JVC FXT-100 or FXT-200* (one of them)....


 
  
 Ain't you contradicting yourself, since JVC FXT series is IEM?
  
  


akashs04 said:


> From the below list, which earbuds is having deepest Bass and Warmest Sound Signature? Pls advise.


 
  
 Might also be a good idea not to quote the whole post if it is particularly long.


----------



## mochill

akashs04 said:


> mochill said:
> 
> 
> > Zen 2.0
> ...


heavenly sound beat , groove


----------



## JASru

tomasz2d said:


> This is difficult to give some simple recommendation here. But are you ready for Red De'mun right now?


How much is it? Does it required amp and How can I get it.


----------



## Willber

> Originally Posted by *ClieOS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
 I agree, a link to the OP would have been better.


----------



## Tomasz2D

jasru said:


> How much is it? Does it required amp and How can I get it.


 
 This is around $90 shipped and doesn't require amp but if you want to spend that much money better search this thread first for some posts about it and see if you may like it.


----------



## mochill

heavenly sound is cheaper


----------



## cocopro

Couple of questions for all the earbuds gurus here=)
 I've tried Zen 1.0 and it's magnificent, reminded me full size cans unlike any other buds I've tried (Ashura 1.0, Monk 1.0, E100, H185 etc).
 Are there any low impedance buds that have similar out-of-head soundstage?
 Is seahf 320 ohm comparable to Zen? The 400 ohm seems to have pretty low rating.
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## 93EXCivic

Has AKG made any good earbuds?


----------



## LaRzZa

I got my T-Music DIY Earbud Version 2 yesterday and they have burn in for 20 hours.
 My first impressions vs version 1 is the bass is about the same, the mids and highs are improved,
 the sound is more crisp and clear and it is more balanced than version 1.


----------



## listen4joy

the Monk has its fans for 5$ best earbuds, soundwise the  AuGlamour RX-1 cost 23$ and and got second place in the contender list, astonishing VFM , now the  MrZ (MusicMaker / Toneking) TY2  cost 89$ and above it the rose mojito cost 230$ is the mojito SQ diffrence worth the price gap? is it worth it price when match to iem in same price range like MEE AUDIO PINNACLE P1 and others?


----------



## kurtextrem

magitka27 said:


> take your time mate, i will wait here patiently
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 my setup is sound blaster Z (desktop soundcard with integrated amp), I was told my idea of "dark" means the deep sound(stage?). I can only compare to stuff like Asura 2 and Cygnus, which sound bright to my ears.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

larzza said:


> I got my T-Music DIY Earbud Version 2 yesterday and they have burn in for 20 hours.
> My first impressions vs version 1 is the bass is about the same, the mids and highs are improved,
> the sound is more crisp and clear and it is more balanced than version 1.


 
  
 I agree 100%.  Version 2 is a step up in overall sound quality.  I also like the build quality of the new earbud too.
  
 I'll have a mini photo shoot of it coming up this weekend as well.
  
 ..


----------



## Sehn82

Just received my SHE3800s, Right out the box they're decent (prefer my previous buds though) but will burn in and see how they fare. Just pulled the trigger on the Monk+ too. Might do a comparison later.


----------



## Willber

listen4joy said:


> AuGlamour RX-1 cost 23$ and and got second place in the contender list, astonishing VFM
 
 I'm not sure who your post was aimed at but the two features most recently asked about were good bass and wide soundstage IIRC. I would say the RX-1 has neither. From my experience I put it behind the Hi-Z 32, SHE3800 and Monk+, all of which are much cheaper.


----------



## 93EXCivic

larzza said:


> I got my T-Music DIY Earbud Version 2 yesterday and they have burn in for 20 hours.
> My first impressions vs version 1 is the bass is about the same, the mids and highs are improved,
> the sound is more crisp and clear and it is more balanced than version 1.


 
  
  


bloodypenguin said:


> I agree 100%.  Version 2 is a step up in overall sound quality.  I also like the build quality of the new earbud too.
> 
> I'll have a mini photo shoot of it coming up this weekend as well.
> 
> ..


 
  
 Dang it. That is not what I wanted to hear. I quite enjoy the V1s I have even if they are wired so that the left is the right and right is the left.
  
  
 To buy or not to buy?


----------



## Willber

haiku said:


> I think the sound of their in ears is spectacular, that´s why I ordered these little gems from 1more today.
> 
> https://uk.1more.com/collections/in-ear-headphones/products/eo320-single-driver-in-ear-earpods-headphones?variant=25070447239
> 
> Can´t wait!


 
 Hi haiku, do you have any idea when you will be receiving these? I'm so tempted to get them but it seems sensible to wait to hear your impressions before I pull the trigger.


----------



## 93EXCivic

So a little bit of comparison between my Monk+, T-Music V1 and Ty Hi-Z 32 ohm.
  

  
 SPL chart: Ty Hi-Z in red, Monk + is blue and V1 in black.
  

  
 Impedance measurement: Monk+ in pink, Hi-Z in green and V1 in yellow.
  
 This was done with a homemade tester and I don't think the sealing was the best which is why the bass is so rolled off but I think it is interesting for comparison.
  
 Personally I'd say as far as sound that the Monk + and V1 are similar although I found the V1 more aggressive and less forgiving off bad recordings then the Monk +. The Monk + seemed to be more laid back. Both to me seem to be a bit bass light but I personally don't mind that. They both struggled when I put Wiz Khalifa's On My Level through them (seemed to have some distortion). The Ty Hi-Z as mentioned previously is v-shaped and it did much better with heavy bass tracks but in general it's sound signature wasn't for me. 
  
 I think the V1 had the best chord. The foams from the Hi-Z and V1 are very similar. The V1 comes with a carrying case which is nice. My V1 though had the bud labeled left wired to be right and vice versa. I didn't like the right angle connector on the Hi-Z. I need to try out the Monk+ with the foams from the other two cause IMO the Monk+ foams are really uncomfortable in comparison.


----------



## golov17

willber said:


> Hi haiku, do you have any idea when you will be receiving these? I'm so tempted to get them but it seems sensible to wait to hear your impressions before I pull the trigger.


 1More EO320 Piston earphone Pod Earbud stereo Earphone with Remote Mic Retail Box for Xiaomi Note Mi Redmi Hongmi Original
 http://s.aliexpress.com/I7ZreeIB 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## BloodyPenguin

93excivic said:


> Dang it. That is not what I wanted to hear. I quite enjoy the V1s I have even if they are wired so that the left is the right and right is the left.
> 
> 
> To buy or not to buy?


 
  
 I can confirm that the R/L are correct on Version 2.  I also got the model with the microphone, which is nice for controlling songs on my Fiio M3.
  
 ..


----------



## Willber

golov17 said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Hi haiku, do you have any idea when you will be receiving these? I'm so tempted to get them but it seems sensible to wait to hear your impressions before I pull the trigger.
> ...


 
 Thanks, that's exactly the one I have ready in my cart (but in gold). I've used them before with no problems. Just waiting to push the button!


----------



## vapman

Saoshyant you have a smart 2.0 320ohm

I do not know how the smart compares to the LD's honestly, just too many damn models


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Saoshyant you have a smart 2.0 320ohm
> 
> I do not know how the smart compares to the LD's honestly, just too many damn models


hehe


----------



## Doori

mochill said:


> heavenly sound is cheaper



Wich heavenly sound's bud you own mochill? How does they sing?
Thx!


----------



## vapman

DANG IT! Just barely missed my mail guy. Gonna have to get my blox be5 at the post office tonight...


----------



## Ira Delphic

willber said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > willber said:
> ...


 
  
 Also available on Ebay - a little less $ and includes e-packet: 
 "Genuine Xiaomi 1More Piston Earphones Headset Earbuds For iPhone Samsung Nexus"


----------



## Willber

willber said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > 1More EO320 Piston earphone Pod Earbud stereo Earphone with Remote Mic Retail Box for Xiaomi Note Mi Redmi Hongmi Original
> ...


 
 Just to add, I emailed the seller asking what were the differences between the EO303 and EO320 (which appear to look identical but are different prices). They said that the latter has more bass.


----------



## vapman

willber said:


> Just to add, I emailed the seller asking what were the differences between the EO303 and EO320 (which appear to look identical but are different prices). They said that the latter has more bass.


 

 You saved me a message to the seller. Thanks man.►
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Ordering the EO320!


----------



## Willber

ira delphic said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > golov17 said:
> ...


 
 Thanks, they don't specify but they are likely to be the EO303 (see my post above).


----------



## Ira Delphic

willber said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > willber said:
> ...


 
  
 Good catch. The 303's sell for less on Ali apparently - https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Original-brand-1More-Earphone-Headphons-Fone-de-Ouvido-Piston-In-Ear-HiFi-Headphones-with-mic-for/609581_32660735253.html


----------



## AkashS04

JVC FXT100 or 200 looks IEM but if they don't seal well and have open back (what looks like in pictures), I might be fine after I try them. Sorry for long post. Many people are suggesting VE Monk+ to buy but is it really with heavy, thumping and booming bass and very warm (or even Hot  ) sound signature that no sharpness will be felt?


----------



## vapman

akashs04 said:


> JVC FXT100 or 200 looks IEM but if they don't seal well and have open back (what looks like in pictures), I might be fine after I try them. Sorry for long post. Many people are suggesting VE Monk+ to buy but is it really with heavy, thumping and booming bass and very warm (or even Hot  ) sound signature that no sharpness will be felt?


 

 Unless we have extremely different ideas of thumping bass, the Monk+ does not have it, or any sharpness... at least in my opinion.
 Never tried either those JVC models.


----------



## AkashS04

Hi,
  
 Thumping Bass means that Bass which I can feel. My old Apple Earbuds (old ones and not earpod), has good bass and Warmness and I wan more than that. Unfortunately, I did not get that in FIIO EM3 at all. It was not bad but not good too. Watmness was slightly less than Apple Earbuds. I liked earpod also but as I mentioned they are too uncomfortable .Any sugestion based on this? Is B&O H3 not fully in-ear as they claim and I read in many articles also and have good bass and warm sound?


----------



## vapman

akashs04 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thumping Bass means that Bass which I can feel. My old Apple Earbuds (old ones and not earpod), has good bass and Warmness and I wan more than that. Unfortunately, I did not get that in FIIO EM3 at all. It was not bad but not good too. Watmness was slightly less than Apple Earbuds. I liked earpod also but as I mentioned they are too uncomfortable .Any sugestion based on this? Is B&O H3 not fully in-ear as they claim and I read in many articles also and have good bass and warm sound?


 

 I hated the EM3....
 get the TY Hi-Z 32 or Monk Plus


----------



## Willber

ira delphic said:


> Good catch. The 303's sell for less on Ali apparently - https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Original-brand-1More-Earphone-Headphons-Fone-de-Ouvido-Piston-In-Ear-HiFi-Headphones-with-mic-for/609581_32660735253.html


 
 Yes, JASru alerted me to them a couple if days ago. Who knows, they might be really good, but I'm going for the 320 if haiku gives them the thumbs up.


----------



## Willber

vapman said:


> akashs04 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...


 
 Or SHE3800.


----------



## Ira Delphic

willber said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > golov17 said:
> ...


 
  
 The Ali specs say the EO303 controls are for *Android* *only* and the EO320 is "Compatible with most Android  and apple *IOS devices*."
 Is the 303 the 2015 model and the 320 newer?


----------



## vapman

I only ordered the SHE3800 the other night 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 but if it's the base for my Red Demun, yes it should have slammin bass!


----------



## AkashS04

Are they both good with lots of Bass and Warmness? I don't want to return again and again   But the problem is they are available on Aliexpress and they shipped in more than a month


----------



## Willber

ira delphic said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Just to add, I emailed the seller asking what were the differences between the EO303 and EO320 (which appear to look identical but are different prices). They said that the latter has more bass.
> ...


 
 Yes, new model adds IOS capability and extra bass (so they say).
  
 Edit: Here is the message I received:
  
_"*Jenny z*: update verison have the super bass, and compatible the most of ios and android mobile phone music play control
 the starder verison EO303,can be compatible the most of android mobile phone music play control"_


----------



## sharkz

vapman said:


> I only ordered the SHE3800 the other night
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I finally broke down and ordered two pairs of SHE3800s. Hopefully they don't take too long to arrive and I can compare to everything else. If not, I may try recabling them. Anyone have any suggestions for decent pre-done cables on Aliexpress? I've made so many of my own, but not sure I really feel like doing it this time.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> I hated the EM3....
> get the TY Hi-Z 32 or Monk Plus


 
  
 I thought the EM3 was quite awful as well.  As you know...
  
  
 --


----------



## sharkz

I bought EM3s specifically for gym earbuds. They have replaced Baldoor E100s which were gym specific before that. Neither of them are bad buds, but never really made me want to too much music through them.


----------



## 93EXCivic

sharkz said:


> I finally broke down and ordered two pairs of SHE3800s. Hopefully they don't take too long to arrive and I can compare to everything else. If not, I may try recabling them. Anyone have any suggestions for decent pre-done cables on Aliexpress? I've made so many of my own, but not sure I really feel like doing it this time.


 
 I ordered a couple thru this Aliexpress store (https://www.aliexpress.com/store/323026). They haven't got in yet but I will post when they do.


----------



## vapman

RE: premade cables
  
 I got one with mic+3 button remote from Lunashops cause i was lazy and didnt feel like terminating a cable.... well it's wired all wrong. I think they really just connected the wires wherever they felt like?
  
 I also bought some DIY connectors from them for the Sony 7550 IEM and each pair had the leads connected differently. Of course they worked fine but it was a pain to realize they were not standardized
  
 so just use caution when buying premade cables and make sure they get good reviews.


----------



## AkashS04

So TY Hi-Z 32 or Monk Plus is good in terms of lots of Bass, lots of warmness and overall very good and better than Apple Earbuds and earpods too?   Which is the 1st choice?


----------



## vapman

akashs04 said:


> So TY Hi-Z 32 or Monk Plus is good in terms of lots of Bass, lots of warmness and overall very good and better than Apple Earbuds and earpods too?   Which is the 1st choice?


 
 hi-z 32 has SLIGHTLY more bass. just slightly.
 it has much less midrange and slightly sharper treble than monk plus.
 Someone else will have to give you a SHE3800 comparison.


----------



## purplesun

TY has noticeably stronger bass than monk plus. But neither are accurate for acoustic bass representation but should be well suited for exaggerated electronic bass. Can you elaborate on what warmness mean to you?


----------



## mochill

doori said:


> mochill said:
> 
> 
> > heavenly sound is cheaper
> ...


the groove,beat, sonata, and concerto


----------



## springbay

vapman said:


> @Saoshyant you have a smart 2.0 320ohm
> 
> I do not know how the smart compares to the LD's honestly, just too many damn models


 

 In a previous post you gave your opinion about a Seahf 320 bud, that you didn't keep. Was it the Smart 2.0? Or did you try the LD-3 320 as well? I was under the impression that your opinion was about the LD-3 320.


----------



## vapman

springbay said:


> In a previous post you gave your opinion about a Seahf 320 bud, that you didn't keep. Was it the Smart 2.0? Or did you try the LD-3 320 as well? I was under the impression that your opinion was about the LD-3 320.


 

 The only 320ohm seahf i tried was the smart 2.0.
 If I said LD-3 i was mistaken and i am very sorry. Too many models to mix up in my brain.....
 I had the LD-3 of the 400ohm, and tried the LD-4.0 of the 400ohm.


----------



## AkashS04

I am planning to get VE Monk+ for my req. Wht do you say? Better than TY Hi-Z 32ohm?


----------



## vapman

If you can afford both get both @AkashS04 you wont regret it
 If you can only afford one i suggest reading more reviews on both


----------



## Willber

akashs04 said:


> I am planning to get VE Monk+ for my req. Wht do you say? Better than TY Hi-Z 32ohm?


 
 I prefer the Hi-Z 32 for its greater bass and wider/deeper soundstage. They are quite v-shaped with sharpish highs but I use EQ so that isn't a problem for me. Also I prefer the SHE3800 to Monk+ for its better resolved mids although both are good. All three are excellent value but the SHE3800 is the cheapest. If you can afford $15 then get all of them. My preference is Hi-Z > SHE3800 > Monk+.


----------



## AkashS04

Hi, I am avoiding any Sharpness as I want more warmer sound. My iPod Nano 7th gen already having too much sharpness than Nano 1st Gen


----------



## AkashS04

I can surely afford both. In fact I am ready to spend 100-150 also for really good earbuds which can make my Nano 7th gen sounds much better than 1st Gen. In terms of Warmness and Bass and of course some clarity.


----------



## Willber

akashs04 said:


> Hi, I am avoiding any Sharpness as I want more warmer sound. My iPod Nano 7th gen already having too much sharpness than Nano 1st Gen


 
 In which case I would choose the SHE3800. They sound best of the three on my phone with no EQ.


----------



## springbay

vapman said:


> The only 320ohm seahf i tried was the smart 2.0.
> If I said LD-3 i was mistaken and i am very sorry. Too many models to mix up in my brain.....
> I had the LD-3 of the 400ohm, and tried the LD-4.0 of the 400ohm.


 

 Ok I see. I originally recommended that you should give the LD-3 320 a try as a complement to the LD-3 400. I haven't heard the Smart 2 myself.
  
 The last month I've only used the LD-3 320 with occasional breaks to try out the Smart 1, LD-3 400, LD-4 400, MusicMaker TP16, TY Hi-Z 32, TY Hi-Z 150.
 And I've lost interest in looking for new buds. The LD-3 320 just does everything right for me.


----------



## vapman

springbay said:


> Ok I see. I originally recommended that you should give the LD-3 320 a try as a complement to the LD-3 400. I haven't heard the Smart 2 myself.
> 
> The last month I've only used the LD-3 320 with occasional breaks to try out the Smart 1, LD-3 400, LD-4 400, MusicMaker TP16, TY Hi-Z 32, TY Hi-Z 150.
> And I've lost interest in looking for new buds. The LD-3 320 just does everything right for me.


 

 Its funny you say that cause I think the LD-3 400 is basically perfect for me.
  
 Yet I still use the monk plus all day long!


----------



## ozkan

Let me introduce you the "Thunder Monk" which will give you *gobs of bass without sacrificing the overall refinement and with slightly better soundstage as well *! 



I know nobody will care this post but you really miss the potential of the Monk.


----------



## Willber

ozkan said:


> Let me introduce you the "Thunder Monk" which will give you *gobs of bass without sacrificing the overall refinement and bigger soundstage as well *!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Only if you have the Monk to start with...


----------



## boblauer

ozkan said:


> Let me introduce you the "Thunder Monk" which will give you *gobs of bass without sacrificing the overall refinement and with slightly better soundstage as well *!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 For the original Monk and did you use blue cotton or settle on a different medium as I see the blue? I lost my last remaining original some time ago hence why  I bought the MP's in groups of 3. It's probably more accurate to say I gave away my last one not knowing it was my last one.


----------



## purplesun

akashs04 said:


> I can surely afford both. In fact I am ready to spend 100-150 also for really good earbuds which can make my Nano 7th gen sounds much better than 1st Gen. In terms of Warmness and Bass and of course some clarity.



IMO, a better approach is replacing the DAP as well as the earbuds since your budget should easily cover both items. Though I am not familiar with them, I keep seeing Benjie DAPs being mentioned in these forums. And they only cost around $30. I would think they should be sound more balanced than your 7th gen Nano. Search these forums and see what people say about them.


----------



## ozkan

willber said:


> Only if you have the Monk to start with...




I don't know but somehow I cannot get the same results with Monk+ I get with the Monk. Might be the impedance or the driver thing . 

I shared the Monk plus before but you didn't even try that too.  

Btw, that blue thing isn't cotton.


----------



## Willber

ozkan said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Only if you have the Monk to start with...
> ...


 
 This is true.


----------



## ozkan

willber said:


> This is true. :etysmile:




I cannot blame you lol since the Monk is great to begin with and they are out of stock. 

When I switch from my modded Monk to the stock Monk I feel like I'm listening to a mono radio.


----------



## ld100

Overloaded and confused by last few weeks following this thread. I want to get a few earbuds that I would use mostly for vocal house, pop vocals and jazz... What would you recommend? I got AuGlamour RX-1, Shozy Cygnus, Tomahawk, Monk+... No amp... I am very tempted by TY2, but until someone does a good review I am not ready jump on it...


----------



## Willber

ozkan said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > This is true.
> ...


 
 But I have four of them...
 Edit: No I don't, I have four Monk+


----------



## vapman

At last I finally know the "Blox smoothness" and it is amazing!

I might try that with either cotton or sorbothane on a monk plus. I have both but my originals are sacred.


----------



## vapman

ozkan said:


> I cannot blame you lol since the Monk is great to begin with and they are out of stock.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Actually they have 20-30 original monk left and you get one if you buy an Asura 2.0.... hint hint...
  
 BTW I think @chicken beer would like to know this about the asura 2.0/monk deal?


----------



## ozkan

vapman said:


> At last I finally know the "Blox smoothness" and it is amazing!
> 
> I might try that with either cotton or sorbothane on a monk plus. I have both but my originals are sacred.




Hey bro, I can send you my modded Monk and Monk plus for comparisons to your earbuds. Maybe you can share your thoughts on them and people can be more convinced. Just pm me your address.


----------



## vapman

ozkan said:


> Hey bro, I can send you my modded Monk and Monk plus for comparisons to your earbuds. Maybe you can share your thoughts on them and people can be more convinced. Just pm me your address.


 

 Is it popping them open and adding cotton? I just ask because I have like 5 original monk and 20 monk plus around and certainly can afford to mess with a couple of each, even though i just said i wouldn't mess with my originals and save us both on shipping


----------



## ozkan

vapman said:


> Is it popping them open and adding cotton? I just ask because I have like 5 original monk and 20 monk plus around and certainly can afford to mess with a couple of each, even though i just said i wouldn't mess with my originals and save us both on shipping




No need to use cotton. I improved my skills on moding. I can send you both Monks and I will pay the shipping fee. No problem mate! 

I want you to hear these babies. ☺


----------



## chicken beer

Wow! I'll check it out right away, thank you!!



vapman said:


> Actually they have 20-30 original monk left and you get one if you buy an Asura 2.0.... hint hint...
> 
> BTW I think @chicken beer
> would like to know this about the asura 2.0/monk deal?


----------



## Brian Coffey

ozkan said:


> No need to use cotton. I improved my skills on moding. I can send you both Monks and I will pay the shipping fee. No problem mate!
> 
> I want you to hear these babies. ☺


 
 What mod was done to the Monk+ ?  I must of missed the post.


----------



## ozkan

brian coffey said:


> What mod was done to the Monk+ ?  I must of missed the post.




Well, first I removed the dampening foam material behind the driver and replaced with 2 pcs of earphone foams (thicker preferable) which I cut exactly the same size as the stock material but a bit wider to fit the chamber then put them back on. Don't glue the foams.


----------



## vapman

It is a shame these Blox were so hard to find because they are _so good_.
  
 They are the closest sound to the Sony E888LP i can think of, except possibly even more natural &_ stronger bass. It is totally worth a shot if you can get a set. I hope the new Blox comes out soon...._


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> It is a shame these Blox were so hard to find because they are _so good_.
> 
> They are the closest sound to the Sony E888LP i can think of, except possibly even more natural &_ stronger bass. It is totally worth a shot if you can get a set. I hope the new Blox comes out soon...._


 

 Reporting on the still burning-in monk plus (15 hours now, I think), it's still too close to TY Hi-Z sound. My MX500 sounds less veiled with more natural sounding bass (ie: a lot less than you guys like), I have to go even further in that direction to get something like E888.
  
 Hifiman ES100, you think/
  
 Edit: Ignore my views. Both earbuds were not sufficiently burned-in.


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> Reporting on the still burning-in monk plus (15 hours now, I think), it's still too close to TY Hi-Z sound. My MX500 sounds less veiled with more natural sounding bass (ie: a lot less than you guys like), I have to go even further in that direction to get something like E888.
> 
> Hifiman ES100, you think/


 

 agree completely, monk+ and ty hi-z 32 are closer than we usually make it sound.
  
 ES100 might be more your style but not like E888. i think go asura 2.0 for E888-esque sound... maybe the Musicmakers, people who like that kind of sound sig seem to like them, i don't have any myself...


----------



## Brian Coffey

ozkan said:


> Well, first I removed the dampening foam material behind the driver and replaced with 2 pcs of earphone foams (thicker preferable) which I cut exactly the same size as the stock material but a bit wider to fit the chamber then put them back on. Don't glue the foams.


 
 Does this improve Bass and soundstage like on the regular Monk?


----------



## kfarndog

jasru said:


> Ain't there anything cheaper that can drive them?)


 
 I like the Fiio E12 with my Zen 2.0.  I also like the JDS CMOY, which would save you a few more dollars.


----------



## ozkan

brian coffey said:


> Does this improve Bass and soundstage like on the regular Monk?




Yeah it does.


----------



## ClieOS

akashs04 said:


> JVC FXT100 or 200 looks IEM but if they don't seal well and have open back (what looks like in pictures), I might be fine after I try them....


 
  
 FXT series is really more sealed than it is opened. If you are interested in IEM with a more opened design, Dunu Titan 1 might be a better choice.


----------



## haiku

willber said:


> Yes, JASru alerted me to them a couple if days ago. Who knows, they might be really good, but I'm going for the 320 if haiku gives them the thumbs up.


 

 Mine should arrive next week. If they sound as good as the 1more piston classic in ears with the titanium driver, I´m pretty shure I´ll have a new "King of Earbuds" here for my earbud kingdom.


----------



## golov17

sharkz said:


> I finally broke down and ordered two pairs of SHE3800s. Hopefully they don't take too long to arrive and I can compare to everything else. If not, I may try recabling them. Anyone have any suggestions for decent pre-done cables on Aliexpress? I've made so many of my own, but not sure I really feel like doing it this time.



http://s.aliexpress.com/VVfYnAzM

http://s.aliexpress.com/RVV3e6zY

http://s.aliexpress.com/vMZjYvqY

http://s.aliexpress.com/7JzyMzYn


----------



## music4mhell

At las ordered the new 650 ohms TY earbud


----------



## Saoshyant

JASru vapman Apparently the tiny Sansa Clip+ & Brainwavz AP001 combo have decent synergy with the SeaHF I have. It has a nice bassy sound, and might sound more enjoyable than my Fiio X5... I'll compare later.


----------



## vapman

I recently rediscovered how amazing the iPod Mini is as a source! I gave my Clip Zip away but still have my Clip and Clip+, Although my clip+ has corrupt internal flash, so only playback over microSD. not a huge deal.


----------



## Fabi

music4mhell said:


> At las ordered the new 650 ohms TY earbud



Congrats mate


----------



## Raketen

vapman said:


> I recently rediscovered how amazing the iPod Mini is as a source! I gave my Clip Zip away but still have my Clip and Clip+, Although my clip+ has corrupt internal flash, so only playback over microSD. not a huge deal.




Rockbox eh? _*pours one out for all his dead Clips & their SD cards*_


----------



## jrazmar

Has everyone given up on the Rose Mojito? Haven't heard lately of anyone talking about how good it still is. Or there are just too many new earbuds to hype about?  My Cygnus has changed since I first got it. With more listening hours, the intimate soundstage opened up and became a bit deeper than wide. The vocals is still ever so glorious and natural. Loving its sound so far and can't wait to get hold of this new Shozy BK. If it's really an upgrade of the Cygnus, then it's definitely very good. Still waiting for the Seahf 320 LD 3.0 to arrive.


----------



## music4mhell

jrazmar said:


> Has everyone given up on the Rose Mojito? Haven't heard lately of anyone talking about how good it still is. Or there are just too many new earbuds to hype about?  My Cygnus has changed since I first got it. With more listening hours, the intimate soundstage opened up and became a bit deeper than wide. The vocals is still ever so glorious and natural. Loving its sound so far and can't wait to get hold of this new Shozy BK. If it's really an upgrade of the Cygnus, then it's definitely very good. Still waiting for the Seahf 320 LD 3.0 to arrive.


i have given up on mojito,

back to zen again...
mojito sound is not natural


----------



## golov17

Mojito is still one of the best in transparency with a slightly recessed mids


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

jrazmar said:


> Has everyone given up on the Rose Mojito? Haven't heard lately of anyone talking about how good it still is. Or there are just too many new earbuds to hype about?  My Cygnus has changed since I first got it. With more listening hours, the intimate soundstage opened up and became a bit deeper than wide. The vocals is still ever so glorious and natural. Loving its sound so far and can't wait to get hold of this new Shozy BK. If it's really an upgrade of the Cygnus, then it's definitely very good. Still waiting for the Seahf 320 LD 3.0 to arrive.




I dont listen to enough classixal music for Mojito to shine really. I still have it but barely use it.


----------



## jrazmar

music4mhell said:


> i have given up on mojito,
> 
> back to zen again...
> mojito sound is not natural


 
  
 that's sad to know mate but I'm happy at the same time that I did not dive the Mojito route when people were still raving about it. I still have the Zen 2.0 but is not getting so much use when I got the Cygnus and the Edimun V3. These two are just so good without any amp straight out of my DAP. Though I may not use an amp as I don't like stacking, I'm still curious how good the Zen 2.0 sounds with a great amp. May I know if you are running the Zen with an amp or none? If yes, what amp are you using?


----------



## jrazmar

tayyab pirzada said:


> I dont listen to enough classixal music for Mojito to shine really. I still have it but barely use it.


 
  
 Hey Tayyab, I actually took your advice here to burn the Cygnus in more and be surprised on how it opens up the soundstage and get even better overall. Are you still using your Cygnus lately? Does it continue to change after 200 hours or so?


----------



## Danneq

jrazmar said:


> Has everyone given up on the Rose Mojito? Haven't heard lately of anyone talking about how good it still is. Or there are just too many new earbuds to hype about?  My Cygnus has changed since I first got it. With more listening hours, the intimate soundstage opened up and became a bit deeper than wide. The vocals is still ever so glorious and natural. Loving its sound so far and can't wait to get hold of this new Shozy BK. If it's really an upgrade of the Cygnus, then it's definitely very good. Still waiting for the Seahf 320 LD 3.0 to arrive.




I'm a late Mojito convert and I love it. For me the recessed mids work with metal and rock music that do not focus mainly on vocals. I'd only place Mojito around 5-6 on my top 10 list but it's by far the best of the current earbuds when it comes to details and soundstage. Definitely a keeper for me. I haven't listened enough to my Cygnus. I'm sort of neurotic about the cable turning green so I mostly keep them in the case...


----------



## music4mhell

jrazmar said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > i have given up on mojito,
> ...


without good dac & amp zen sounds super dull.

I have only one dac amp, i.e. Chord Mojo.

i will use the same with the 650 ohms earbud which i ordered today.
the musicmaker dual driver is also on the way.

I will wait for now till VE nirvana comes out.

i bet it will be expensive. Also i will buy Focal elear headphone


----------



## Willber

haiku said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, JASru alerted me to them a couple if days ago. Who knows, they might be really good, but I'm going for the 320 if haiku gives them the thumbs up.
> ...


 
 I had the Piston 3 IEM and wasn't very impressed, although very well made. I await your thoughts on the EO320 with interest.


----------



## Tomasz2D

SeaHF LD-3.0 320 Ohm vs. SeaHF Smart 2.0 320 Ohm
  
 So called SeaHF Smart 2.0 320 Ohm - I got this one from SeaHF TaoBao store.
 So called SeaHF LD-3.0 320 Ohm - I got this one from AE seller.
  
 So what are the differences between these two? The main difference is that there are no differences at all. They even look the same (see picture below). OK, if I will be very scrupulous LD is by hair brighter and Smart is by hair darker but this is kind of difference that you will find in exactly the same model of any headphones from the same production lot, just caused by normal production/material inconsistency.
  
 So my assumption is:
 a) LD-3.0 320 Ohm and Smart 2.0 320 Ohm are exactly the same model, just sold under different names in AE and TaoBao, or
 b) I ordered Smart 2.0 320 Ohm in TaoBao, but they sent me LD-3.0 320 Ohm for some reason.


----------



## haiku

willber said:


> I had the Piston 3 IEM and wasn't very impressed, although very well made. I await your thoughts on the EO320 with interest.


 

 Since I´ve started going the iem route too, I´ve become aware how bass anemic most earbuds are for me. LD-3.0 400 Ohm is a must for me theses days....


----------



## gwompki

I got a set of og monks when I got the Zen 2.0 last week. Just now getting around to listening to them. Is it just me or is the sound stage wayyy wider on these than with monk plus? The only monk plus I have tried so far is the mass drop red edition. I know there was some speculation that perhaps the mass drop edition was slightly different so maybe I need to try a standard monk plus to compare. Regardless, I need to get my hands on more original monks. Wish I had gotten on board earlier so I didn't need to pay inflated eBay prices.


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> Mojito is still one of the best in transparency with a slightly recessed...



That will be a no-issue if it is driven by Mojo. Match made in heaven, i'll say.


----------



## Saoshyant

clieos said:


> That will be a no-issue if it is driven by Mojo. Match made in heaven, i'll say.


 
 It's a very strong pairing for me if you're going for details.  I also like how the Mojito pairs on inexpensive detail oriented daps like the Kogan.  Yes, it's a $25 dap, but it paired well with the Ety HF5 the same way it likes the Mojito.


----------



## SuperMAG

My take on Monk+ with double thin foam, TY HIZ 32 old version with single think monk foam and philips she3800. Take with a light mind.
  
*Sound Signature: Monk > TY > SHE3800*
 Now this depends on preference in i like the monk because they are very musical and fun but other two are also good for different songs. Philips and Monk are not very different in sound.
  
*Bass: Monk+ > TY > SHE3800*
 TY has more sub bass while monk has more mid bass, phillips has similar bass to TY but its like by a drum or tube like. But more importantly, i like the slam of the bass, in that regard Monk+ has the hardest slam and very clean that makes you excited watching action scenes in a movie or drama, TY and Philips have similar slam.
  
*Mids: TY Slightly > Monk+ > SHE3800*
 Monk+ and Philips have mostly similar mids with monk being cleaner and more musical, while ty has sharper and less rounder then both, so it depends on music and preference and i like the sharper ones.
  
*Highs: TY = Monk = SHE3800*
 All three are similar in highs, its slightly extended but still on the softer side, none of the three has sharp highs that say of piston 2 for example.
  
*Soundstage: TY = Monk = SHE3800*
 Tbh i sell all these three have BIG soundstage so no weaknesses here.
  
*Separation, Clarity: Monk > TY > SHE3800*
 Monk and TY are very close in Separation and clarity but monk appears better than TY while is also not far. 
  
*3D Imaging: Monk+ >> SHE3800 > TY*
 Now here is the difference is quality, Monk has superior 3d and imaging followed by philips which are still not close enough to monk but still better then TY which has quite flat imaging.
  
*My Over All: Monk+ > TY > SHE3800*
 Again these depends on preferences and what i like is bass slam, soundstage, imaging and monk does that better then others. I am not a reviewer so don't take this seriously ok.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> That will be a no-issue if it is driven by Mojo. Match made in heaven, i'll say.


 Good to know, thanks


----------



## kinetic758

jrazmar said:


> Has everyone given up on the Rose Mojito? Haven't heard lately of anyone talking about how good it still is. Or there are just too many new earbuds to hype about?  My Cygnus has changed since I first got it. With more listening hours, the intimate soundstage opened up and became a bit deeper than wide. The vocals is still ever so glorious and natural. Loving its sound so far and can't wait to get hold of this new Shozy BK. If it's really an upgrade of the Cygnus, then it's definitely very good. Still waiting for the Seahf 320 LD 3.0 to arrive.




I've taken a break from earbud listening/purchasing due to a nagging ear infection, but for me Mojito is still at the top (when synergistically amped).


----------



## music4mhell

clieos said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > Mojito is still one of the best in transparency with a slightly recessed...
> ...


Wow m lucky to be in heaven always ..


----------



## jrazmar

It's refreshing to know that the gurus and earbud enthusiasts in this thread are still giving high praises to Mojito despite being silent for a little while. i'm thinking now if it's worth to give up the Zen 2.0 and buy the Mojito. No plan of using a separate amp on the go.


----------



## audio123

mojito or zen 2.0? i would pick zen


----------



## ozkan

jrazmar said:


> It's refreshing to know that the gurus and earbud enthusiasts in this thread are still giving high praises to Mojito despite being silent for a little while. i'm thinking now if it's worth to give up the Zen 2.0 and buy the Mojito. No plan of using a separate amp on the go.


 
  
 I wouldn't buy the Zen 2.0 if I don't I have a powerful amp. Haven't heard the Mojito though.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Lately, after sending my Cygnus back to Penon for warranty due to driver issue (shame really as they were so good sounding after 200hours+ of burn in), all I have been using is the Mojito.

 Oh how wonderfully glorious does the Mojito sound with orchestral and bgm music.
 The details, the soundstage, the airiness!!!!


----------



## jailhouselounge

Very interesting thread. I just received my monk plus a few days ago and I am so surprised by it. Could you guys give recommendations on other earbuds by price and performance? I'm looking at SEAHF and FAAEAL but I don't know their sound signature.


----------



## vapman

jailhouselounge said:


> Very interesting thread. I just received my monk plus a few days ago and I am so surprised by it. Could you guys give recommendations on other earbuds by price and performance? I'm looking at SEAHF and FAAEAL but I don't know their sound signature.




If you read the last 10 or so pages you will find tons of information that is basically exactly what you are asking, however i will tell you right now Seahf and Farerl both have very drastically different sounding models and many of them. Other brands are more consolidated.


----------



## vapman

*Edimun v3 unboxing*


----------



## Danneq

jailhouselounge said:


> Very interesting thread. I just received my monk plus a few days ago and I am so surprised by it. Could you guys give recommendations on other earbuds by price and performance? I'm looking at SEAHF and FAAEAL but I don't know their sound signature.


 

 Welcome to the world of earbuds!

 It's best that you let us know what sort of sound signature you are looking for and your budget. Do you want something like Monk plus but with better details, bass, resolution etc? Or something a bit different?


----------



## Brian Coffey

vapman said:


> *Edimun v3 unboxing*


 
 Yay You finally got it!


----------



## vapman

The cable is not at all stiff like the Demun cable. Out of the box sound is top notch. I have only got one song in. I'll hold off on impressions until I do a little more comparison and pit it against the Red De'Mun.


----------



## purplesun

jailhouselounge said:


> Very interesting thread. I just received my monk plus a few days ago and I am so surprised by it. Could you guys give recommendations on other earbuds by price and performance? I'm looking at SEAHF and FAAEAL but I don't know their sound signature.



Best way is to use your monk plus as reference. What you like about it and what aspect about it you would like to improve. Then the people here will have a good idea which other buds should better suit you. It will be a fun journey.
-------
Sorry, just read that I almost repeated Danneq's reply word for word


----------



## purplesun

Unbelievable!
  
 Read that VE recommends 50 to 600hours of burn in for their Asura. So I decided to put TY Hi-Z back on the burn-in machine; added another 20 hours to it's previous 48 hours. I just auditioned it - the bass is now less bloated, while the mids have come out to play! I am going to leave TY Hi-Z and Monk+ burning in for another 3 more days and see how things shake out.
  
 These things should come with a warning label "Do not use until 5 days of burn in!".


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

jrazmar said:


> Hey Tayyab, I actually took your advice here to burn the Cygnus in more and be surprised on how it opens up the soundstage and get even better overall. Are you still using your Cygnus lately? Does it continue to change after 200 hours or so?


 
 I don't know if it has changed. I pretty much only use Cygnus now. But mostly due to comfort more than anything.


----------



## vapman

Someone linked me to a store on Aliexpress that sold the style earbud shell the Cygnus and black Cygnus  use, however they since seem to have disappeared, so i wonder if using those shells for other earbud drivers is still a viable thing.


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> Someone linked me to a store on Aliexpress that sold the style earbud shell the Cygnus and black Cygnus  use, however they since seem to have disappeared, so i wonder if using those shells for other earbud drivers is still a viable thing.


 

 Is this it?
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-headset-accessories-14-8MM-headphones-shell-Double-the-sound-hole-Cotton-has-been-posted/2046553820.html


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> Is this it?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-headset-accessories-14-8MM-headphones-shell-Double-the-sound-hole-Cotton-has-been-posted/2046553820.html


 

 YES!
 a different store than the one i'd seen, but same thing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Been wanting to put some Monk Plus drivers in these if they fit but i don't think they do.


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> YES!
> a different store than the one i'd seen, but same thing
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I ordered some time ago. Still on the slow boat. Hoping to find my broken E888 and re-shell it.
  
 Seriously, with the amazing pool of knowledge here, you guys should think about collaborating & coming up with some open-source, self-assembled earbud designs based around bits & parts available on AE, I much rather rely on the ears of people here than AE sellers.


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> I ordered some time ago. Still on the slow boat. Hoping to find my broken E888 and re-shell it.
> 
> Seriously, with the amazing pool of knowledge here, you guys should think about collaborating & coming up with some open-source, self-assembled earbud designs based around bits & parts available on AE, I much rather rely on the ears of people here than AE sellers.


 
  
 if old sony drivers fit those you can guess whats gonna happen to my MDR E838.


----------



## jailhouselounge

Thanks for the response! I typically prefer balanced iems with good extension (sold my fidue a83) and have recently tried balanced-dark bassier ones. I listen to various genres jazz, rock, chill, drum n bass, classical, etc. I'm very open to recommendations and don't necessarily have a budget restriction as long as it's within reason that's why I asked if there are earbuds worthy of getting within a given price point. Im tempted to try different models!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I just took some pictures of the *T-Music DIY Earbud - Version 2* (with Microphone):
  
 It really does have a decent build quality and a fun sound to boot.  Better than the first T-Music DIY Earbud Version IMO.
  

  

  

  

  
 --


----------



## Willber

jailhouselounge said:


> Very interesting thread. I just received my monk plus a few days ago and I am so surprised by it. Could you guys give recommendations on other earbuds by price and performance? I'm looking at SEAHF and FAAEAL but I don't know their sound signature.


 
 The problem is that the world of earbuds is huge and varied (as it is with IEMs) and a single point of reference is not very helpful. I suggest you broaden your base slightly (and cheaply). For about $5 each you can get the TY Hi-Z 32 and Philips SHE3800 (for example). Both are highly regarded on here for their price and performance. Along with your Monk+ you will then be able to identify which characteristics of these three you like and dislike, and using this feedback people will be able to help you target the earbuds that are most likely to satisfy your preferences. Otherwise you could end up spending a lot of money without necessarily getting the best buds for your tastes.


----------



## FatTeemo

I put the Seahf LD 3.0 400 ohms for sale if anyone is interested. They are like new. http://www.head-fi.org/t/821180/seahf-ld-3-0-400-ohms-earbuds


----------



## RedDemonZ

Hello, I need a earbud with large soundstage
I love my TY HiZ 32 for its soundstage and sounded like using tube amp and give analouge sound
I have budget about 30$, do you have any suggestion for upgrade from TY HiZ with similar sound like TY HiZ?
I prefer with meutral to bright, but at the most i need the soundstage


----------



## vapman

@BloodyPenguin I might order one of the new T-Musics depending on your impressions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The Edimun 3 makes the Cygnus seem so flat, lifeless and narrow soundstaged! I'm really impressed. So fun and engaging and musical, soundstage some of the best I've ever heard really.
  
 cygnus, red de'mun and edimun v3 all are different enough i will keep and use all 3. If you ask me if Red De'mun or Edimun v3 is better, I would tell you they are on equal footing but serve different purposes. Red Demun closer to MX985, Edimun V3 closer to vintage Sony/Mojito.


----------



## Sp12er3

Wow, is it THAT good? As an Indonesian I'm really tempted on purchasing the Edimun one of these days, if I may ask, which way is their sound sig lean more to, Warm & musical or detailed & bright? 
I know it's broader than that, but general description is enough.


----------



## vapman

sp12er3 said:


> Wow, is it THAT good? As an Indonesian I'm really tempted on purchasing the Edimun one of these days, if I may ask, which way is their sound sig lean more to, Warm & musical or detailed & bright?
> I know it's broader than that, but general description is enough.


 
 if i had to put each in a category
  
 edimun detailed & bright
 red demun warm & musical
  
 IMO


----------



## springbay

audionewbi3 said:


> Review of TY-HIZ 650Ohm in Teiba Baidu
> http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4787849598


 

 I tried to google translate the page, but sadly it all turned gibberish.
 Is the TY Hi-Z 650 compared to one of the TY Hi-Z 400 versions in the review, and if so is it the 400 or the 400s?
 And in that case, is the TY Hi-Z 400 just another brand name for the Seahf LD-3 400 and the TY Hi-Z 400s = Seahf LD-4 400? 
 I would buy the TY Hi-Z 650 if it contains the clarity and detail of the Seahf LD-3 320 and adds the sub bass of the Seahf LD-4 400, but if the TY Hi-Z 650 bares similarities to the sub bass of the Seahf LD-3 400 I will most likely pass.


----------



## SuperLuigi

Like some others here, my first time trying an Ear bud headphone was when I bought the monk plus. Really enjoy the ear buds after years of iems. 

What's the next step after the monks? Should I try other budget buds or start increasing my price range and picking up quality buds?


----------



## vapman

superluigi said:


> Like some others here, my first time trying an Ear bud headphone was when I bought the monk plus. Really enjoy the ear buds after years of iems.
> 
> What's the next step after the monks? Should I try other budget buds or start increasing my price range and picking up quality buds?


 

 both!
 but read the last 5-10 pages to get a sense of what cheap and more pricey buds people like, and you will get some idea of their different sound signature as well.
 its best to get a variety of cheap buds, find out what you like and don't like, and have more an idea of where to go when you have more an idea of how they can be.


----------



## teston

ozkan said:


> Well, first I removed the dampening foam material behind the driver and replaced with 2 pcs of earphone foam which I cut exactly the same size as the stock material. Lastly added some cotton on top of them and put them back on. That's it mate!



Omg. It sounds easy but I have only 1 original monk so it maybe pain in the ass if I break them. In fact i really enjoy the monks even they are not modded.


----------



## springbay

superluigi said:


> Like some others here, my first time trying an Ear bud headphone was when I bought the monk plus. Really enjoy the ear buds after years of iems.
> 
> What's the next step after the monks? Should I try other budget buds or start increasing my price range and picking up quality buds?


 

 Compared to full sized cans, almost all ear buds could be considered budget head gear.
 Many will argue that there is significant difference between the cheapest ones like VE Monk, VE Monk+, Boarseman K25s, FAAEAL 64, QianYun Qian 25, TY Hi-Z 32 and so on.
 But to my non golden ears they sound pretty much similar. All are decent buds with some flaws in one way or another. Of the ones mentioned I only use the Monks.
 For a few dollars more you can get the AUGLAMOUR RX-1 or the Boarseman MX98s and if that doesn't satisfy you, or spark your interest to dig deeper, the sky is the limit.


----------



## Raketen

Almost impulse bought the Edimun v3 but no HTTPS uggh... bad enough head-fi isn't secure connection h34r:
At least it saves me some $$$


----------



## purplesun

Just for fun.
 Attached is a foobar2k EQ preset I created to make TY Hi-Z sound similar to my MX500.
 Essentially, removing some low end bass & a touch increase of treble.
 It's not exactly the same, but close. I have also maintained a slight bit more V-shape than MX500's original response.
  
 So hopefully, if my TY Hi-Z has stably burned-in by now, you guys with TY Hi-Z will be hearing the best bass-sounding earbud of the 90s.

  
 Note: The EQ preset takes about 5 seconds to load, so you will have to wait a bit before the sound changes.


----------



## vapman

raketen said:


> Almost impulse bought the Edimun v3 but no HTTPS uggh... bad enough head-fi isn't secure connection h34r:
> At least it saves me some $$$




Have em send you a PayPal invoice! 

Agree the rx1 or mx98s is a solid level above the "cheap buds".


----------



## Raketen

vapman said:


> Have em send you a PayPal invoice!




Paypal only an option after submitting unencrypted info on their site rather than the usual paypal checkout process, unfortunately.


----------



## vapman

raketen said:


> Paypal only an option after submitting unencrypted info on their site rather than the usual paypal checkout process, unfortunately.




Yeah i know, i meant email irgunawan directly =)


----------



## kurtextrem

Ugh seems like Edimun v3 is the upgrade to the Cygnus I want (or maybe Red Demun).... but I just can't get over the huge shipping cost....


----------



## Raketen

kurtextrem said:


> Ugh seems like Edimun v3 is the upgrade to the Cygnus I want (or maybe Red Demun).... but I just can't get over the huge shipping cost....




At least they are not saying it's a $90 earbud with free shipping :veryevil:



vapman said:


> Yeah i know, i meant email irgunawan directly =)




Well, that's an idea that would not have occured to me in a million years.


----------



## Doori

Hy bud lover's, except Yuin, is there earbuds with the Cygnus's shell?
Thx!


----------



## Tomasz2D

doori said:


> Hy bud lover's, except Yuin, is there earbuds with the Cygnus's shell?




ERQU EQ100 and many models from BlackBud maker Good Sound Gadget.


----------



## Tomasz2D

cocopro said:


> I've tried Zen 1.0 and it's magnificent, reminded me full size cans unlike any other buds I've tried (Ashura 1.0, Monk 1.0, E100, H185 etc).
> Are there any low impedance buds that have similar out-of-head soundstage?
> Is seahf 320 ohm comparable to Zen? The 400 ohm seems to have pretty low rating.


 
 What are your favorite music styles and your usual listening volume level (low/medium/high)?


----------



## Tomasz2D

ld100 said:


> Overloaded and confused by last few weeks following this thread. I want to get a few earbuds that I would use mostly for vocal house, pop vocals and jazz... What would you recommend? I got AuGlamour RX-1, Shozy Cygnus, Tomahawk, Monk+... No amp... I am very tempted by TY2, but until someone does a good review I am not ready jump on it... 
 I think your question has not been answered here yet but I think this is because your question is too general. You already own very goods buds so in what direction would you like to go now? More bass, resolution, details or you just want to try buds that sound "interesting" and a bit different from these that you own already?


----------



## cqtek

Hello to all.
  
 I want to buy some earbud with better fit than mx500 shell (this shell is big for me) with mic.
 Now I have VE Monk Plus, Mrz Tomahawk, T-Music (Bass tuned) and Pioneer SE-CE521-K. The Pioneer has the better fit for me and Tomahawk the worst. I need a little shell. I like V-sound signature. Price until 25$.
  
 Is 1More EO320 Piston a good option? They seems robust, but the sound is good? They are more little than mx500?
  
 Thanks for your support.


----------



## gwompki

Interesting listing on eBay. I assume it's a diy Zen clone. I'm almost curious enough to bite. Seller has two listed, one with black cable and the other with silver.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/Audiophile-earphones-earbuds-320-ohms-5N-silver-cable-S-I-M-I-L-A-R-2-Zen-VE-/262641423698?hash=item3d26a61552%3Ag%3ApKsAAOSwAuZX5uv5&_trkparms=pageci%253A6522bfde-8305-11e6-b38d-005056bb1835%257Cparentrq%253A60c024da1570a6a8eee53635fffeffbb%257Ciid%253A3


----------



## Willber

superluigi said:


> Like some others here, my first time trying an Ear bud headphone was when I bought the monk plus. Really enjoy the ear buds after years of iems.
> 
> What's the next step after the monks? Should I try other budget buds or start increasing my price range and picking up quality buds?


 
 "Quality" is very subjective and there are many variables. As a first step I suggest you broaden your source of reference slightly (and cheaply). For about $5 each you can get the TY Hi-Z 32 and Philips SHE3800 (for example). Both are praised on here for their price and performance. Along with your Monk+ you will then be able to compare and identify which characteristics of these three you like and dislike, and using this feedback people will be able to help you target the earbuds that are most likely to satisfy your preferences. Otherwise you could end up spending a lot of money without necessarily getting the best buds for your tastes.


----------



## golov17

doori said:


> Hy bud lover's, except Yuin, is there earbuds with the Cygnus's shell?
> Thx!


 DoCoMo


----------



## haiku

cqtek said:


> Hello to all.
> 
> I want to buy some earbud with better fit than mx500 shell (this shell is big for me) with mic.
> Now I have VE Monk Plus, Mrz Tomahawk, T-Music (Bass tuned) and Pioneer SE-CE521-K. The Pioneer has the better fit for me and Tomahawk the worst. I need a little shell. I like V-sound signature. Price until 25$.
> ...


 

 I´m listening right now to the 1More Piston. This thing is a killer. Knowing their piston classic, I expected nothing less. They simply sound spectacular.


----------



## Willber

haiku said:


> > Originally Posted by *cqtek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> >
> > Is 1More EO320 Piston a good option? They seems robust, but the sound is good? They are more little than mx500?
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's what I wanted to hear! I've just pulled the trigger for $23.


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> cqtek said:
> 
> 
> > Hello to all.
> ...


how is it compare to your legendary seahf earbuds ?


----------



## cqtek

haiku said:


> I´m listening right now to the 1More Piston. This thing is a killer. Knowing their piston classic, I expected nothing less. They simply sound spectacular.


 
  
 Thank you for your comments. Is EO320 more comfortable and little than mx500 shell (like VE Monk)? It's so important for me.


----------



## Tomasz2D

haiku said:


> I´m listening right now to the 1More Piston. This thing is a killer. Knowing their piston classic, I expected nothing less. They simply sound spectacular.


 
  


music4mhell said:


> how is it compare to your legendary seahf earbuds ?


 
 ... and to K's earbuds?


----------



## haiku

music4mhell said:


> how is it compare to your legendary seahf earbuds ?


 

 The Piston is way ahead in SQ imo.


----------



## haiku

cqtek said:


> Thank you for your comments. Is EO320 more comfortable and little than mx500 shell (like VE Monk)? It's so important for me.


 

 I wear them with the full foams and for me they are more comfortable than the MX500.


----------



## Willber

haiku said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > how is it compare to your legendary seahf earbuds ?
> ...


 
 *rubs hands together in gleeful anticipation*


----------



## haiku

tomasz2d said:


> ... and to K's earbuds?


 

 It´s sad to say it, but for me the Piston with their lovely highs, superb mids and tight and detailed bass stomp all over the K´s. Plus they are excellently built, a real gem.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I´m pretty certain they will sound even better after some days of burn in. It was the same with their in ears. I´m deeply impressed by 1More.


----------



## kurtextrem

Is it fair to compare in ears with earbuds? (and what is "K's earbuds"?)


----------



## haiku

kurtextrem said:


> Is it fair to compare in ears with earbuds? (and what is "K's earbuds"?)


 

 I´m not comparing them, I´ve just said I think the Piston earbuds will open up even more with some days of burn in, like I´ve experienced it with their In Ears (Piston Classic).
 K´s means K´s Earphone 500Ohm earbuds.


----------



## Nec3

Hi everyone, I'm looking for a pair of earbuds as a desktop solution powered by my Objective O2. My budget is 80USD and I want them solely for listening to piano solos. Used/new doesn't matter to me.
 An earbud that I guess sounds like a Sennheiser, where there's weight on every key the pianist presses and the melody of a piano just flows. I currently own the VE Monk and the Shozy Zero.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

haiku said:


> I´m not comparing them, I´ve just said I think the Piston earbuds will open up even more with some days of burn in, like I´ve experienced it with their In Ears (Piston Classic).
> K´s means K´s Earphone 500Ohm earbuds.


 
 So you prefer the 1More buds over the K 500Ohm's?


----------



## haiku

audionewbi3 said:


> So you prefer the 1More buds over the K 500Ohm's?


 

 Yup.


----------



## haiku

Some more info about the Piston from Headpie
  
 http://headpie.blogspot.de/2016/07/1more-piston-earbuds-rudi0504.html
  
 http://headpie.blogspot.de/2016/07/piston-1more-earbud-after-burn-in.html


----------



## ld100

tomasz2d said:


> I think your question has not been answered here yet but I think this is because your question is too general. You already own very goods buds so in what direction would you like to go now? More bass, resolution, details or you just want to try buds that sound "interesting" and a bit different from these that you own already?


 
  
 Tomas, 
  
 One, I want to explore more and see if there is more detail and soundstage. Would certainly like to try something which is not too expensive to try, but not mind spending more money either. What is confusing is there there are no clear preference. Of course everything is subjective and people hear differently, but in this thread preferences are all over the place... I am pretty sure Mojito will not be my cup of tea as I love vocals... This is why I am lost at which way to go next.


----------



## purplesun

> Originally Posted by *ld100* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> One, I want to explore more and see if there is more detail and soundstage. Would certainly like to try something which is not too expensive to try, but not mind spending more money either. What is confusing is there there are no clear preference. Of course everything is subjective and people hear differently, but in this thread preferences are all over the place... I am pretty sure Mojito will not be my cup of tea as I love vocals... This is why I am lost at which way to go next.


 
 I think you pretty much summed up what I like about this thread . It's more like art than science in here. Fortunately, with low prices of earbuds, it is usually less costly to make mistakes than with IEMs. And not once have I seen TOTL or "end game" earbuds mentioned in here; that is a plus! But patient and some experimentation is required in getting something that suits you. I am still getting the hang of this place myself.


----------



## cqtek

haiku said:


> I wear them with the full foams and for me they are more comfortable than the MX500.


 
 Thank you very much for your help.


----------



## Ira Delphic

haiku said:


> cqtek said:
> 
> 
> > Hello to all.
> ...



Do you have the Android version or the iPhone/Android 2016 of the 1more?


----------



## haiku

ira delphic said:


> Do you have the Android version or the iPhone/Android 2016?


 

 2016 version


----------



## Doori

tomasz2d said:


> ERQU EQ100 and many models from BlackBud maker Good Sound Gadget.



Thank you Tomasz2S. I found that EQ100 produce an analog sound, but do you know wich sig have the Blackbud's earbuds?


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > Do you have the Android version or the iPhone/Android 2016?
> ...


i ordered the 1more piston..

let's see how it performs


----------



## Tomasz2D

ld100 said:


> One, I want to explore more and see if there is more detail and soundstage. Would certainly like to try something which is not too expensive to try, but not mind spending more money either. What is confusing is there there are no clear preference. Of course everything is subjective and people hear differently, but in this thread preferences are all over the place... I am pretty sure Mojito will not be my cup of tea as I love vocals... This is why I am lost at which way to go next.


 
  
 OK, so taking into account earbuds that you already own and that you don't have an amp, I think you could try these:
  
 Black Onyx Earbud (Facebook) - for its soundstage.
 Blue Ever Blue 328R (company www - ask for H-F rebate) - for its harmony.
 ERQU EQ100 (Taobao) - for its dynamics.
 finally...
 Red De'mun (e-mail) - for that's a demon.
  
 All of above will give you some different sounds to experiment with but also different from what you already have. And you don't need an amp.


----------



## vapman

cocopro ld100 edimun v3 or zen 2 for out of head soundstage IMO

Some others do great but these 2 are on the level of competing with full size cans. Edimun v3 preferred out of the box


----------



## Tomasz2D

doori said:


> Thank you Tomasz2S. I found that EQ100 produce an analog sound, but do you know wich sig have the Blackbud's earbuds?


 
 I only own their budget Color model (around $20) which has bright / detailed sound signature. Their flagship model is over $100. All their earbuds are custom made on order and may have different sound signature.


----------



## headjelly

I have just received the Boarseman MX98S and used them for some time with my LG V10 before allowing them to burn in. I am very impressed, I enjoyed the sound much more than my previous favorite set of earbuds - the Monk classic. I am not sure I like the fit and the cable (it's too stiff for my liking), but the sound is really enjoyable. MX98S owners, for how long have you burned in yours?


----------



## vapman

headjelly said:


> I have just received the Boarseman MX98S and used them for some time with my LG V10 before allowing them to burn in. I am very impressed, I enjoyed the sound much more than my previous favorite set of earbuds - the Monk classic. I am not sure I like the fit and the cable (it's too stiff for my liking), but the sound is really enjoyable. MX98S owners, for how long have you burned in yours?


 

 Hmm, probably about 100 hours now?
  
 I have a 4 way headphone splitter i use with my DAC's built in headphone amp, and coil up the buds connected to it, that is my "burn in station".
  
 Another 2 headphones can be accommodated by my headphone amp, so I have 6 buds burning in 24/7


----------



## Tomasz2D

nec3 said:


> Hi everyone, I'm looking for a pair of earbuds as a desktop solution powered by my Objective O2. My budget is 80USD and I want them solely for listening to piano solos. Used/new doesn't matter to me.
> An earbud that I guess sounds like a Sennheiser, where there's weight on every key the pianist presses and the melody of a piano just flows. I currently own the VE Monk and the Shozy Zero.


 
 For solo piano via amp that would be SeaHF LD-3.0 400 Ohm for about $55.


----------



## Nec3

tomasz2d said:


> For solo piano via amp that would be SeaHF LD-3.0 400 Ohm for about $55.


 

 400 OHMS O_O

 I've heard things like the Objective O2 not even being able to drive the VE Zen to its' full ability
 Edit: I've read that the SeaHF are bright, are they able to carry the heavy and deep tone of a piano?


----------



## Tomasz2D

nec3 said:


> 400 OHMS O_O
> 
> 
> I've heard things like the Objective O2 not even being able to drive the VE Zen to its' full ability
> ...




My daughter plays piano so I attended countless piano concerts and I selected this earbud "by hand" for best piano sound  But about synergy with your amp I don't know.


----------



## Nec3

tomasz2d said:


> My daughter plays piano so I attended countless piano concerts and I selected this earbud "by hand" for best piano sound
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I suppose synergy can come later, but the Objective O2 outputs 600ohms 88mw at most, which should be enough? There isn't enough specs about the SeaHF for me to judge.


----------



## kurtextrem

Rose Mojito "Special Version": https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-New-Rose-Mojito-Special-Version-Flat-Head-Earphone-Double-Dynamic-Earplug-HIFI-Monitor-DIY-Earphone/1825606_32739672235.html
 seems new?


----------



## Tomasz2D

nec3 said:


> I suppose synergy can come later, but the Objective O2 outputs 600ohms 88mw at most, which should be enough? There isn't enough specs about the SeaHF for me to judge.




Galaxy S7 phone and some solo piano tracks. Comfort zone for me is volume around 90-95% max. Volume 100% is already too loud for me.


----------



## kvad

The Rose Masya is up for pre-order. Mass production apparently won't start till October though.
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-Newest-Rose-Masya-Flat-Head-Earphone-Double-Dynamic-Earplug-HIFI-Monitor-DIY-Earphone-With-2/1825606_32739193404.html


----------



## gwompki

I have found a really great pairing with og monk and little bear b4 amp. I was close to putting the b4 up for sale until I tried this pairing. Incredible sound. I keep thinking there is some bogus software "3D" effect turned on due to how expansive it sounds. Monk plus is totally different on this amp. Not bad but the soundstage is much narrower.


----------



## cocopro

tomasz2d said:


> What are your favorite music styles and your usual listening volume level (low/medium/high)?


 
 I listen to all kinds of music, prefer neutral to slightly warm sound signature, and my usual listening volume is medium to low, thanks!


----------



## Ira Delphic

springbay said:


> superluigi said:
> 
> 
> > Like some others here, my first time trying an Ear bud headphone was when I bought the monk plus. Really enjoy the ear buds after years of iems.
> ...




I recently picked up a pair of
Sennheiser MX 680 Sport In-Ear Only Headphones - Black/Yellow

They are discontinued and refurbs go for $15 or less. I ordered them when eager to try a bud and Monks were "in the mail" lol! The MX 680's were mentioned and highly recommended many pages ago in this thread. 

Compared to Monk+ the 680 needs more power but clip+ or smartphone is fine. Not as much bass as the Monk+ and the 680 has sparkly highs and emphasis on the mids. It comes with different size hooks, foam, and silicon seals, similar to ex-pack, sort of... Not just for sports. Read more about them if sound interesting.

Edit: note the "in ear" isn't a typo. That's how It's listed, definitely a bud


----------



## purplesun

cocopro said:


> I listen to all kinds of music, prefer neutral to slightly warm sound signature, and my usual listening volume is medium to low, thanks!



I think TY Hi-z 32 fits the bill for all kinds of music. But bass is boosted making it more for bass loving ears. .


----------



## purplesun

The cheapskate in me could not resist it; I just ordered.
 It's either "end game" earbuds, or chew toy (just joking, no puppy will be harmed)

  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MSD-Original-Earphones-Professional-In-Ear-Earphones-Super-Bass-Protable-Earphones-Stereo-Super-Clear-Headset-For/32707547507.html


----------



## Sempenyi

supermag said:


> My take on Monk+ with double thin foam, TY HIZ 32 old version with single think monk foam and philips she3800. Take with a light mind.
> 
> *Sound Signature: Monk > TY > SHE3800*
> Now this depends on preference in i like the monk because they are very musical and fun but other two are also good for different songs. Philips and Monk are not very different in sound.
> ...


 
  
 monk seems to come in par with TY Hi-Z. i own both and seems to be better and better after burned.
  



vapman said:


> Someone linked me to a store on Aliexpress that sold the style earbud shell the Cygnus and black Cygnus  use, however they since seem to have disappeared, so i wonder if using those shells for other earbud drivers is still a viable thing.


 

 is that yuin PK series housing ?
  


jailhouselounge said:


> Thanks for the response! I typically prefer balanced iems with good extension (sold my fidue a83) and have recently tried balanced-dark bassier ones. I listen to various genres jazz, rock, chill, drum n bass, classical, etc. I'm very open to recommendations and don't necessarily have a budget restriction as long as it's within reason that's why I asked if there are earbuds worthy of getting within a given price point. Im tempted to try different models!


 
  
 TY 32 and old ve monk or qian 25/39
  


superluigi said:


> Like some others here, my first time trying an Ear bud headphone was when I bought the monk plus. Really enjoy the ear buds after years of iems.
> 
> What's the next step after the monks? Should I try other budget buds or start increasing my price range and picking up quality buds?


 

 both will come to an endless journey. welcome to the earbuds realm.


----------



## ld100

headjelly said:


> I have just received the Boarseman MX98S and used them for some time with my LG V10 before allowing them to burn in. I am very impressed, I enjoyed the sound much more than my previous favorite set of earbuds - the Monk classic. I am not sure I like the fit and the cable (it's too stiff for my liking), but the sound is really enjoyable. MX98S owners, for how long have you burned in yours?


 
  
 Would love to hear your opinion on them in more details...


----------



## Sempenyi

just found this and want to ask.

 Rose Mojito
 Taobao : http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=0.0.0.0&id=43414853614
 MisterTao : http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/43414853614.html

 there are 3 version of mojito ? there is 3 different price.
 and also is that mojito seems to have an update for 2016 that have been posted above as 2016 special edition something (the one with candy blink color) ?

 can anyone explain the 3 price difference and the difference between 2014, 2015 and 2016 (special edition version) ?
 which one is the one we are talking here in the round up ?
  
 Rose Masya
 Taobao :http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=0.0.0.0&id=536938080337
 MisterTao : http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/536938080337.html

@ClieOS @golov17 @vapman @Tayyab Pirzada @Danneq @Tomasz2D @AudioNewbi3 @haiku @music4mhell

 sorry for long post.


----------



## ClieOS

sempenyi said:


> just found this and want to ask.
> 
> Rose Mojito
> Taobao : http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=0.0.0.0&id=43414853614
> ...


 
  
 There isn't any 2014/15/16 version of Mojito, nor is it any special edition (AE seller like to make up random new name for promotional purpose). There was two version of Mojito being produced so far - the original red/blue limited edition, which is out of production already, and the current 3D printed, (supposedly) re-tuned, mass production Mojito.
  
 Now the new three prices are just different package deal of the same Mojito (from cheapest): 1) the regular 3D printed Mojito with stock OFC cable, 2) Mojito with 'vocal enhanced' cable and 3) Mojito with silver-copper mixed cable. All of these cable can also be purchased separately btw, for those who already own a Mojito right now.
  
 Then you also have two more options (w/ extra $$$, can apply to any of the three package above): 1) Sparkly night sky finishing and 2) Pearly red/blue finishing.


----------



## teston

VE Asura 2.0 or Shozy Cygnus?
 I'm going to buy one but can't decide which to pick up. Can you guys give some suggestions?


----------



## vapman

teston said:


> VE Asura 2.0 or Shozy Cygnus?
> 
> I'm going to buy one but can't decide which to pick up. Can you guys give some suggestions?




The first is laid back and is not as quick or dynamic a sound as Cygnus. cygnus is very energetic and aggressive in comparison to the asura 2.0.

Considering both are in the slightly under $100 range, would like to suggest edimun v3 as superior to both asura and cygnus. I still love and use both my cygnus and asura but neither as much as edimun.

Asura comes with an original series Monk for free.

edit: for clarity, edimun is a brighter sound with less forward mids than cygnus, but much greater soundstage. cygnus is a flatter sound and still most aggressive of all. asura 2.0 is not a bass cannon of an earbud in any way but the cygnus has a bit more bass depth & impact with the edimun v3 being the best of the 3 at bass depth and impact. all 3 are technically comparable earbuds.


----------



## Sempenyi

vapman said:


> The first is laid back and is not as quick or dynamic a sound as Cygnus. cygnus is very energetic and aggressive in comparison to the asura 2.0.
> 
> Considering both are in the slightly under $100 range, would like to suggest edimun v3 as superior to both asura and cygnus. I still love and use both my cygnus and asura but neither as much as edimun.
> 
> Asura comes with an original series Monk for free.


 
 red demun and edimun v3 seems awesome.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

kurtextrem said:


> Rose Mojito "Special Version": https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-New-Rose-Mojito-Special-Version-Flat-Head-Earphone-Double-Dynamic-Earplug-HIFI-Monitor-DIY-Earphone/1825606_32739672235.html
> seems new?


 
  
 The only thing which is special about them is just the case color. The tuning is exactly the same as the previous versions.
  


kvad said:


> The Rose Masya is up for pre-order. Mass production apparently won't start till October though.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-Newest-Rose-Masya-Flat-Head-Earphone-Double-Dynamic-Earplug-HIFI-Monitor-DIY-Earphone-With-2/1825606_32739193404.html


 
  
 Just an FYI, the Rose Masya is tunned more for vocals according to the producer.
  


sempenyi said:


> just found this and want to ask.
> 
> Rose Mojito
> Taobao : http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=0.0.0.0&id=43414853614
> ...


 
  
 As Sifu ClieOS mentioned, thier is no 2014, 2015, 2016, nnnn versions of the Mojito. 
  
 For all I know, their is only 2 version of the Mojito which is the original version (when the housing was still solid red and solid blue), and the 2nd newer version (transparent housing with more forward mids tunning)
  
 The Masya is considered to be the little brother of the Mojito but is tunned more towards being a "vocal" earbud. For orchestral works, the seller still recommends the Mojito.

 As for the price difference, I believe ClieOS has done a terrific job at explaining.

 Cheers


----------



## vapman

Actually I feel like if you want to experience the old Blox BE sound, the Asura 2.0 is a pretty solid one to go for. It is more  like the Blox than anything you can really currently get. the BE5 I got is a bit brighter than the Cygnus and has lighter bass but smoother & better soundstage & airier. The cable the Blox is crappy though, it is #1 on my recabling to-do list now... I am curious to see if it can get much better with a recable. But my point is if you have the Asura 2.0 it's probably the closest thing you can get to the old Blox sound (I've never heard anything but the BE5 so that's really all I have to go on).


----------



## headjelly

ld100 said:


> Would love to hear your opinion on them in more details...


 
  
 The MX98S are forward, bright, transparent and I really like the instrument separation. They are very musical to me and the classic Monk sounds veiled compared to them.


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> The cable the Blox is crappy though


 

 TM7 are so far my favorite earbuds and I bought them for $148 but the cable feels cheaper than the ones on $5 earbuds TY HiZ HP-32 and Monk+...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

haiku said:


> Yup.


 
 Wow, maybe I should check them out hahaha


----------



## chart54

​I've found this image on rose technology taobao.
 Any one have any information ?


----------



## haiku

After the first 10 hours of burn in, the lower end of the frequency spectrum of the Piston is already opening up much more. Wow...!


----------



## ClieOS

chart54 said:


> ​I've found this image on rose technology taobao.
> Any one have any information ?




That's Mojito prototype, before the original limited edition. Only a very small number was made, mainly for evaluation but a few were sold to early adopter. The finalized version became the original red/blue Mojito.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> That's Mojito prototype, before the original limited edition. Only a very small number was made, mainly for evaluation but a few were sold to early adopter. The finalized version became the original red/blue Mojito.


btw, with mmcx?


----------



## teston

vapman said:


> The first is laid back and is not as quick or dynamic a sound as Cygnus. cygnus is very energetic and aggressive in comparison to the asura 2.0.
> 
> Considering both are in the slightly under $100 range, would like to suggest edimun v3 as superior to both asura and cygnus. I still love and use both my cygnus and asura but neither as much as edimun.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks vapman. Your comment is exactly what I heard. Just visited the local store and try both the cygnus and ve asura 2.0. I'm impressed by the spacious soundstage of the ve asura. It is like the upgrade to the original ve monk with less bass but more refine mid and better clarity. I ended up pick this up. The cygnus as you said is more aggressive with more bass and treb. It's a better all-rounder buds but the ve asura do it better for my taste as I listens to epic music, instrumental and pop.


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> btw, with mmcx?




Yes, MMCX - but it has proven to have durability issue and thus they change it to 2 pins in the final version.


----------



## Saoshyant

@vapman So that puts 4 earbuds at least around the same price that are all roughly comparable.  I'd put Crow Audio's Signature Edition up against the Cygnus as well, it's very close in quality.  There might be something else, but I can't think of anything else that's aiming for the same goal.


----------



## 93EXCivic

vapman said:


> Someone linked me to a store on Aliexpress that sold the style earbud shell the Cygnus and black Cygnus  use, however they since seem to have disappeared, so i wonder if using those shells for other earbud drivers is still a viable thing.


 
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/DIY-ear-ear-PK1-2-3-4-shell-cavity-fever-ears-headphones-hifi-headphones-bass-PK/323026_2035871774.html
  
 I have bought from this store a couple of times.


----------



## 93EXCivic

bloodypenguin said:


> I just took some pictures of the *T-Music DIY Earbud - Version 2* (with Microphone):
> 
> It really does have a decent build quality and a fun sound to boot.  Better than the first T-Music DIY Earbud Version IMO.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I said I wasn't buying anymore earbuds but I really like my V1s so I ordered V2s. It is only $12 after all.....


----------



## jrazmar

Can someone give a link from where I can buy the Cygnus default donut foams as mine looks very blemished already due to excessive use.  I have lots of earbud foams in my cabinet drawer but nothing is the same as that of Shozy's. Please help if you know of anything. Thanks.


----------



## luedriver

jrazmar said:


> Can someone give a link from where I can buy the Cygnus default donut foams as mine looks very blemished already due to excessive use.  I have lots of earbud foams in my cabinet drawer but nothing is the same as that of Shozy's. Please help if you know of anything. Thanks.


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/9570#post_12835590
  
 I posted this a bit back after asking the same thing
  


> I just orderd some donut foams
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/earphone-sponge-earphone-foam-ear-pads-three-colors/32245327908.html
> 
> ...


----------



## jrazmar

luedriver said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/9570#post_12835590
> 
> I posted this a bit back after asking the same thing




so is it indeed the same as that of the Cygnus?


----------



## luedriver

jrazmar said:


> so is it indeed the same as that of the Cygnus?


 
 I don't know yet, still waiting, from the photos alone, I couldn't tell


----------



## luedriver

golov17 said:


> DoCoMo


 
 link?
  
 *edit: are they good?


----------



## Sempenyi

jrazmar said:


> Can someone give a link from where I can buy the Cygnus default donut foams as mine looks very blemished already due to excessive use.  I have lots of earbud foams in my cabinet drawer but nothing is the same as that of Shozy's. Please help if you know of anything. Thanks.


 
 try hiegi foams. works good with cygnus.


----------



## AkashS04

How are they? Good with Lots of Warm and Bass and also details but not sharp Trebel? Better than Monk+ (I am yet to try) or much better than old apple earbuds (I love them)?


----------



## Saoshyant

@vapman I'm curious, did you sell the SeaHF due to finding a better bassy earbud, a lack of synergy between it and your tastes, or just wanting to try something new?  I'm positively enamoured with it currently.


----------



## Ira Delphic

haiku said:


> Some more info about the Piston from Headpie
> 
> http://headpie.blogspot.de/2016/07/1more-piston-earbuds-rudi0504.html
> 
> http://headpie.blogspot.de/2016/07/piston-1more-earbud-after-burn-in.html


 
  
 The Headpie content may be blocked from where I am, I don't see much info, just photos.
  
 This is a review of the 1more Piston Earbud - 
  
 http://www.headfonia.com/review-1more-piston-earbuds-voice/
  
 The verdict is very good sound but sub-bass is missing! Based on the date _I assume this is the Android only version._ Perhaps the 2016 version that supports Android & IOS is the way to go if we believe that bass was improved like a seller mentioned.


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> @vapman
> I'm curious, did you sell the SeaHF due to finding a better bassy earbud, a lack of synergy between it and your tastes, or just wanting to try something new?  I'm positively enamoured with it currently.




Sorry but im assuming you mean the Seahf 320? I actually couldn't find anything about it my MX98s couldnt offer. I was also very disappointed in the new version Seahf 400 because it sounds like any other midrange mids oriented vocal oriented bud out there... Which is most.

A lot of people really love it so i bet it didnt have the best synergy with my source.


----------



## jamesbdh

vapman said:


> if i had to put each in a category
> 
> edimun detailed & bright
> red demun warm & musical
> ...


 
 Do they have similar soundstage to the seahf 400?


----------



## Willber

> Originally Posted by *Ira Delphic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> This is a review of the 1more Piston Earbud -
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, the Android/IOS version (EO320) has just come out, apparently they have addressed the sub-bass issue. I will find out in a few weeks but hopefully haiku can confirm in the meantime.


----------



## golov17

luedriver said:


> link?
> 
> *edit: are they good?


 http://www.shozy-hk.com/cygnus/


----------



## vapman

jamesbdh said:


> Do they have similar soundstage to the seahf 400?


 

Both are better than the 400 at stage but i feel edimun will triumph over red demun in stage


----------



## BloodyPenguin

*Update* on the T-Music Version 2.
  
 I knew I had seen it on Taobao before.
  
 It can be had here for about $6 USD (before shipping).
  
 It could be another one of T-Music's shops, I am not sure.
  
 I also can not confirm 100% it is the same earbud, but it sure looks like it.
  
 https://world.taobao.com/item/39068111311.htm
  
  
 This all said, the T-Music Version 2 sounds decent for the price, I would put it close to the MusicMaker TP16, though I have to spend more time with them back to back to verify that.  
  
 --


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Also, not sure if these have been posted on here.
  
  
 Anyone know anything about the *Audio Technica J100*?
  
 They come in tons of colors (Only Three Shown Here):  
  

  
  
  
 --


----------



## sharkz

vapman said:


> Both are better than the 400 at stage but i feel edimun will triumph over red demun in stage


 
  
 So for mainly rock and progressive, Edimun or Demun?


----------



## vapman

sharkz said:


> So for mainly rock and progressive, Edimun or Demun?




I have very little rock and no progressive in my collection so i might not be so qualified to make this claim. The edimun and red demun are very close in SQ. Red demun is tuned similar to mx985 but more musical and better bass. Edimun is a more v shaped sound with more open soundstage.


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> I have very little rock and no progressive in my collection so i might not be so qualified to make this claim. The edimun and red demun are very close in SQ. Red demun is tuned similar to mx985 but more musical and better bass. Edimun is a more v shaped sound with more open soundstage.


 
 OK, thanks for this. I was following your posts after you got your Edimun but now I am sure I will skip Edimun. It looks like by accident (without knowing how these two compare) I made good choice for me with Red De'mun as I prefer more balanced earbuds and without too bloated soundstage.


----------



## sharkz

Thanks for the response vapman. If you get time, can you post pics of them next to each other? Not sure I have ever seen what they look like side by side.


----------



## vapman

Not sure what you mean by bloated soundstage, red demun has great soundstage but edimun is truly out of head. Both are really and truly well balanced but red demun is closer to the Cygnus sound i guess.


----------



## boblauer

Maybe artificially large sound stage, bloated seems to convey a negative thing?
  
 Anyhow you can send those earbuds to me since I have thousands of Rock and Prog Rock tracks and I'll get back to you soon real soon


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> Not sure what you mean by bloated soundstage, red demun has great soundstage but edimun is truly out of head. Both are really and truly well balanced but red demun is closer to the Cygnus sound i guess.


 
 The feeling of bloated sounstage (artificially large sound stage  ) is created by v-shaped tuning usually. These two atributes are a pair. Examples of bloated soundstage / v-shape tuning - Monk, Blox B200, Rose Mojito, Ostry KC08, Seahf. Examples of balanced tuning / normal soundstage - Zen 2.0, MX98s, Cygnus, AuGlamour RX-1, MX985, Red De'mun.


----------



## vapman

@Tomasz2D While I don't agree with the placement of all those earbuds into those categories, i see what you mean, and imagine the red demun is more up your alley.


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> The feeling of bloated sounstage (artificially large sound stage  ) is created by v-shaped tuning usually. These two atributes are a pair. Examples of bloated soundstage / v-shape tuning - Monk, Blox B200, Rose Mojito, Ostry KC08, Seahf. Examples of balanced tuning / normal sounstage - Zen 2.0, MX98s, Cygnus, AuGlamour RX-1, MX985, Red De'mun.




AuGlamour RX-1 has got great mids but they gave me a sense of claustrophobia! So unfortunately I have to get rid of my 2 pairs... And Zen 2.0 hasn't got any highs. At least my pair didn't. I had to EQ treble up with 10 Db to even hear cymbals. My amps (Cayin C5 and FiiO E11) should not be blamed for that. When I traded Zen 2.0 for a pair of Zen 1.0, the older Zen sounded very balanced.

Anyway, I do not think that Edimun V3 is overly V-shaped. Definitely more than Cygnus, but not by much. I still think that they sound like a baby Zen 1.0.


----------



## ozkan

tomasz2d said:


> The feeling of bloated sounstage (artificially large sound stage  ) is created by v-shaped tuning usually. These two atributes are a pair. Examples of bloated soundstage / v-shape tuning - Monk, Blox B200, Rose Mojito, Ostry KC08, Seahf. Examples of balanced tuning / normal soundstage - Zen 2.0, MX98s, Cygnus, AuGlamour RX-1, MX985, Red De'mun.




Is Monk v-shaped? You must be kidding right? On the contrary I find the former Monk a bit n-shaped being the mids too upfront and claustrophobic . This also applies to Monk+ Just my two cents.


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> @Tomasz2D While I don't agree with the placement of all those earbuds into those categories, i see what you mean, and imagine the red demun is more up your alley.


 
  


danneq said:


> AuGlamour RX-1 has got great mids but they gave me a sense of claustrophobia! So unfortunately I have to get rid of my 2 pairs... And Zen 2.0 hasn't got any highs. At least my pair didn't. I had to EQ treble up with 10 Db to even hear cymbals. My amps (Cayin C5 and FiiO E11) should not be blamed for that. When I traded Zen 2.0 for a pair of Zen 1.0, the older Zen sounded very balanced.
> 
> Anyway, I do not think that Edimun V3 is overly V-shaped. Definitely more than Cygnus, but not by much. I still think that they sound like a baby Zen 1.0.


 
  
 Yes, we all here have different preferences, we listen to different music, we are at different age (maybe with already partial hearing loss), we listen at different volume levels, so this is good we have that big choice of earbuds. Everybody can find something good for himself.


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> Yes, we all here have different preferences, we listen to different music, we are at different age (maybe with already partial hearing loss), we listen at different volume levels, so this is good we have that big choice of earbuds. Everybody can find something good for himself.




Yeah, that's true.


----------



## Tomasz2D

ozkan said:


> Is Monk v-shaped? You must be kidding right? On the contrary I find the former Monk a bit n-shaped being the mids too upfront and claustrophobic . This also applies to Monk+ Just my two cents.


 
  
 I like to joke a lot here but this time I just may be wrong.


----------



## ozkan

tomasz2d said:


> I like to joke a lot here but this time I just may be wrong.




May I ask which source or DAP are you pairing your earbuds with or do you use EQ? They may sound different depending on the source.


----------



## Tomasz2D

ozkan said:


> May I ask which source or DAP are you pairing your earbuds with or do you use EQ? They may sound different depending on the source.


 
 It can be Galaxy S7 / iPad directly (with Tidal) or via Mojo or Racoon SG-300.
 And no EQ.


----------



## ozkan

tomasz2d said:


> It can be Galaxy S7 / iPad directly (with Tidal) or via Mojo or Racoon SG-300.
> And no EQ.




Respect brother


----------



## vapman

Tomasz2D i do not think calling the monk v shaped is off base at all. I dont find it to have particularly wide soundstage but i am also spoiled by nicer buds than the monk and high power amps!
The fact that i amp and eq and you don't changes things too. The mojo which i used to have is also a very different sound from my current set up.
All i have to go off for rock is a little metal and a little punk


----------



## Nec3

vapman said:


> Sorry but im assuming you mean the Seahf 320? I actually couldn't find anything about it my MX98s couldnt offer. I was also very disappointed in the new version Seahf 400 because it sounds like any other midrange mids oriented vocal oriented bud out there... Which is most.
> 
> A lot of people really love it so i bet it didnt have the best synergy with my source.


 

 I was told it was slightly V shaped... did I make the wrong decision to buy the SeaHF 400? I'm using them strictly for piano. i.e. Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata.


----------



## vapman

nec3 said:


> I was told it was slightly V shaped... did I make the wrong decision to buy the SeaHF 400? I'm using them strictly for piano. i.e. Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata.




I cant tell you whether or not you will enjoy it, i probably would have picked something else for just piano and nothing else, like one of the "slower" sounding buds that is smoother but less capable of dealing with intense/hectic music.


----------



## Nec3

vapman said:


> I cant tell you whether or not you will enjoy it, i probably would have picked something else for just piano and nothing else, like one of the "slower" sounding buds that is smoother but less capable of dealing with intense/hectic music.


 
 I assume you had an earbud in mind? :>
 If you meant like a sennheiser, I'm all for it! I loved my sennheisers but I sold them off because I preferred the Q701 for active listening, I'd rather have earbuds when I'm looking down at my desk (without a sore neck).


----------



## vapman

nec3 said:


> I assume you had an earbud in mind? :>
> If you meant like a sennheiser, I'm all for it! I loved my sennheisers but I sold them off because I preferred the Q701 for active listening, I'd rather have earbuds when I'm looking down at my desk (without a sore neck).


 

 Not really but since ClieOS list on page 1 is all based off of classical music, i think you'd find his opinions would probably correlate pretty well with your listening choices, and being a Q701 fan, the seahf 400 might be too colored and not smooth enough for your liking.


----------



## ozkan

All my earbuds sound amazing now.


----------



## purplesun

Now that both Monk plus & TY Hi-Z 32 has logged about 100 hours, here's an old codger's 2 cents comparo.
  
 Monk plus - Sounds very much like the performance of older generation earbuds. ie: upper bass hump (warm to overly warm) and recessed highs. It's cosy sounding and, with the right material, it, surprisingly, can throw back a decent soundstage like an old tube amp (I think it was on an early Depeche mode). So, on old recordings, it does take me back to the way earbuds used to be (not sure if it's good thing). Conclusion: Not quite for me, I need a bit of fizz in my old age .
  
 TY Hi-Z - This one is a step apart from the old generation and updated for the ears of 2016. The highs & the lows performance would have been impossible back in the day. The highs/lows may not be very accurate but they are certainly impressive. While keeping the mids pulled back, it then gives a sense of refinement as well. For an earbud costing less than $8, I would have thought you were lying about the price if I had not heard the performance myself. Conclusion: Prefer this one, but still not quite for me; embarrassing shaking the booty at my age. My son, OTOH, should be quite happy having some for Xmas.
  
 So E888 quest continues....


----------



## fairx

Surprise visit from mr postman this morning and I'm now listening to Philips she3800!

OOTB without any foam (my ritual) they sound very fine for the price with decent timbre and fast low. But after put on the included foam now they sound very unimpressive, dull and boring. Claustrophobic too perhaps. 

This is my very early impression BTW. Just for my own record anyway. 

And the cable! Oh my it's the old skool "left short and right over the neck long" cable. No wonder people recable them. 

Off to the burn machine!!


----------



## vapman

@fairx
 do they look pretty similar to edifier housing to you?
 maybe i'll grab a set, have enough cheap buds, but i love j-cables 
  
  
 anyone found out anything about the AT earbuds BloodyPenguin posted recently?


----------



## ClieOS

vapman said:


> Not really but since ClieOS list on page 1 is *all based off of classical music*, i think you'd find his opinions would probably correlate pretty well with your listening choices, and being a Q701 fan, the seahf 400 might be too colored and not smooth enough for your liking.


 
  
 I don't recall adding any new classical album to my music collection in the last few years and certainly haven't listened to any classical in any serious manner for months now. - so it is puzzling on how / why that I somehow become a classical music addict?


----------



## fairx

vapman said:


> @fairx
> do they look pretty similar to edifier housing to you?
> maybe i'll grab a set, have enough cheap buds, but i love j-cables
> 
> ...


 

 forgive my photography skill, they looks exactly similar in my eyes. edifier pic is from internet (I don't have any h180 ATM)


----------



## ld100

clieos said:


> I don't recall adding any new classical album to my music collection in the last few years and certainly haven't listened to any classical in any serious manner for months now. - so it is puzzling on how / why that I somehow become a classical music addict?


 
  
 I was also under impression that you prefer classical. I believe it is somewhere in the thread. Can you please descibe what kind of music you listen to? That would be very helpful to know. And thank you for creating and updating the list! Any way you could do the short descriptions as you used to?


----------



## purplesun

fairx said:


> And the cable! Oh my it's the old skool "left short and right over the neck long" cable.


 
 All the cool kids hang round the back in the 80s.
 Don't be a old skool doofus & have it hanging under your chin.


----------



## fairx

purplesun said:


> All the cool kids hang round the back in the 80s.
> Don't be a old skool doofus & have it hanging under your chin.


 
 Lol I said that exactly because I'm one of those 80's kids haha, suddenly reminds me of listening to borrowed walkman (clone) between class


----------



## ld100

Let me tell you guys Shozy Cygnus and DragonFly Black sound delicious... All I'm saying...


----------



## purplesun

fairx said:


> Lol I said that exactly because I'm one of those 80's kids haha, suddenly reminds me of listening to borrowed walkman (clone) between class


 
 Here.... take your Marty McFly life-preserver award for looking as the appropriately cool kid from another time.


----------



## HairyHeadMara

Just received my VX Pro today, out of the box they are very nice sounding phones. They are very good with acoustic music and vocal.


----------



## golov17

hairyheadmara said:


> Just received my VX Pro today, out of the box they are very nice sounding phones. They are very good with acoustic music and vocal.


 agree


----------



## vapman

clieos said:


> I don't recall adding any new classical album to my music collection in the last few years and certainly haven't listened to any classical in any serious manner for months now. - so it is puzzling on how / why that I somehow become a classical music addict?




Im very sorry about this, clieos. I have read numerous other posts by other people in this thread at different times stating basically you only listen classical, however i've never heard from you directly about your musical preferences, only read other posts by people not yourself. I apologize as i did not know i was in error thinking this. 

By the way i do miss the small descriptions you used to add in. They were very pleasant to read and helpful.


----------



## fairx

Philips she3800 still in the burn machine, 2-3 hour now, I put on monk+ foam and listen to my dub/reggae playlist. low -> mid bass -> lower mid still sounded muddy even with porous foam. but I hear very good highs and details. transition from upper mid to highs are superb IMO, reminds me of RX-1.
  
 overall sound still V shaped.


----------



## luedriver

golov17 said:


> http://www.shozy-hk.com/cygnus/


 
 I asked about the photo you posted
  
 the one called docomo
  
 or are they just rebranded cygnus?


----------



## vapman

I am thinking to get a she3800 just to see if it is the same as edifier h180 in sound. But man... The h180 stock and then either red demun or edimun v3, can hardly believe the h180 can be turned into something so glorious, so i wonder if many other cheap buds are capable of this magnificent transformation?


----------



## haiku

To anyone, who´s thinking of ordering the 1more Piston, please be cautious if you want to buy from aliexpress. They almost always sell the old model, which seems to be sonically inferior to the new model I´ve been writing about.


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> To anyone, who´s thinking of ordering the 1more Piston, please be cautious if you want to buy from aliexpress. They almost always sell the old model, which seems to be sonically inferior to the new model I´ve been writing about.


 
 Model EO320 ?


----------



## jrazmar

haiku said:


> To anyone, who´s thinking of ordering the 1more Piston, please be cautious if you want to buy from aliexpress. They almost always sell the old model, which seems to be sonically inferior to the new model I´ve been writing about.


 
  
 link please? I may have missed previous posts about this earbuds. thanks!


----------



## haiku

music4mhell said:


> Model EO320 ?


 

 These are the original
  
 http://headpie.blogspot.de/2016/07/1more-piston-earbuds-rudi0504.html
  
 You have to compare the pictures with the ones on ali. Also pay attention the package they come with. I would rather recommend to order directly from 1more, like I did.


----------



## purplesun

Here's the frequency response I found for Sony MDR-E888. I am trying to get that sound with a modern earbud. If anyone knows an earbud with reasonably similar FR, I would appreciate you post it up or PM me. I know it's a horrible looking FR, but I loved it. Thanks.


----------



## Sehn82

fairx said:


> Surprise visit from mr postman this morning and I'm now listening to Philips she3800!
> 
> OOTB without any foam (my ritual) they sound very fine for the price with decent timbre and fast low. But after put on the included foam now they sound very unimpressive, dull and boring. Claustrophobic too perhaps.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Where did you order yours from? I ordered 2 pairs from Fasttech and oddly one had the J cable and the other a regular Y. Same packaging and the sticker says "neckstrap style" even for the Y version. Been listening to the Y version and now i'm wondering if its a different model.


----------



## mebaali

Both of my SHE3800 ordered (with few months gap between each other) from fasttech has got Y-shaped wires.


----------



## golov17

luedriver said:


> or are they just rebranded cygnus?


good question.. but i don't know really..


----------



## golov17

All my SHE3800 have Y-cables


----------



## luedriver

golov17 said:


> good question.. but i don't know really..


 
 then what about the DoCoMo, I tried looking them up, but found NTT DoCoMo mobile phones instead


----------



## vapman

luedriver said:


> then what about the DoCoMo, I tried looking them up, but found NTT DoCoMo mobile phones instead


 

 Which should indicate it is probably a rebrand of something else, or at least OEM from a different company, DoCoMo is too busy being in the telecom industry to develop their own earbuds I think.


----------



## golov17

luedriver said:


> then what about the DoCoMo, I tried looking them up, but found NTT DoCoMo mobile phones instead


old batch from guys in Thailand


----------



## Tomasz2D

nec3 said:


> I was told it was slightly V shaped... did I make the wrong decision to buy the SeaHF 400? I'm using them strictly for piano. i.e. Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata.


 
 This is difficult to find good solo grand piano sound in earbuds, especially with good response from C1 and C2 octaves. I think that SeaHF LD-3.0 400 Ohm is the closest to life grand piano sound in a way it will also add proper weight to C1 and C2 octaves. On the other hand the most transparent and neutral sound you will get from AuGlamour RX-1, althought for solo instrument only it will sound too thin. For me, another good choice for solo piano next to SeaHF would be Zen 2.0 but a) it was out of your budget ($80 for used or new) as used Zen 2.0 goes for about $100 at least I think and b) the sound is very colored towards warm.


----------



## JASru

I listen to Dance wth the dead via RX-1 right now and it sooooooo good. Retrowave sounds awesome on it.


----------



## audio123

Musicmaker tp16 has become one of my favourite


----------



## Townyj

audio123 said:


> Musicmaker tp16 has become one of my favourite


 
 Its funny you say that, ive tried to go back to my Cygnus recently and they just dont cut it. Will give it a few weeks and then make a decision on whether to sell them and just keep the TP16.


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> Im very sorry about this, clieos. I have read numerous other posts by other people in this thread at different times stating basically you only listen classical, however i've never heard from you directly about your musical preferences, only read other posts by people not yourself. I apologize as i did not know i was in error thinking this.
> 
> By the way i do miss the small descriptions you used to add in. They were very pleasant to read and helpful.


 
 For sure I said this once in my post here:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/8460#post_12789293
  
 "As for ClieOS and his list I suspect that this is classical music that may have strong impact on how he rates earbuds."
  
 I was hoping we can make from ClieOS a classical music composer here or at least a conductor but I haven't succeeded as he intervened too early


----------



## audio123

townyj said:


> Its funny you say that, ive tried to go back to my Cygnus recently and they just dont cut it. Will give it a few weeks and then make a decision on whether to sell them and just keep the TP16.


have u burn them in?


----------



## Townyj

audio123 said:


> have u burn them in?


 
  
 Which ones..?? The Cygnus or TP16..?? 
  
 The TP16 have hardly left my ears since arriving, enjoyed the sound from first listen.


----------



## audio123

townyj said:


> Which ones..?? The Cygnus or TP16..??
> 
> The TP16 have hardly left my ears since arriving, enjoyed the sound from first listen.


tp16 burn in at least 350 hrs and it will ripen the sound


----------



## Townyj

audio123 said:


> tp16 burn in at least 350 hrs and it will ripen the sound


 
 Im a firm believer in just listening to my earbuds/iems and enjoying the change. Never been bothered with burn in on any of my previous items, either like a sound or dont.


----------



## jrazmar

townyj said:


> Im a firm believer in just listening to my earbuds/iems and enjoying the change. Never been bothered with burn in on any of my previous items, either like a sound or dont.


 
  
 In what way/manner does the TP16 trump the Cygnus? So far, nothing beats the Cygnus for me as far as vocal prowess and bass impact and presence is concerned. I have the Zen 2.0, Edimun v3, RX-1 and Tomahawk at my possession.


----------



## ozkan

vapman said:


> I am thinking to get a she3800 just to see if it is the same as edifier h180 in sound. But man... The h180 stock and then either red demun or edimun v3, can hardly believe the h180 can be turned into something so glorious, so i wonder if many other cheap buds are capable of this magnificent transformation?




Monk, Monk and Monk.


----------



## Willber

haiku said:


> To anyone, who´s thinking of ordering the 1more Piston, please be cautious if you want to buy from aliexpress. They almost always sell the old model, which seems to be sonically inferior to the new model I´ve been writing about.


 
 I got it in writing from AE that the EO303 (old version) is £17 and EO320 (new version) is $23.
 Is there any way of physically distinguishing them?


----------



## golov17

willber said:


> I got it in writing from AE that the EO303 (old version) is £17 and EO320 (new version) is $23.
> Is there any way of physically distinguishing them?


eo303




eo320


----------



## Townyj

Just arrived... oh man they are awesome!


----------



## Willber

@golov17
 So it looks like the only difference is the mic controller (3 buttons instead of 2)?


----------



## Tomasz2D

townyj said:


> Just arrived... oh man they are awesome!


 
 Fear no more


----------



## audio123

townyj said:


> Im a firm believer in just listening to my earbuds/iems and enjoying the change. Never been bothered with burn in on any of my previous items, either like a sound or dont.


all i can say is it really helps


----------



## fairx

sehn82 said:


> Where did you order yours from? I ordered 2 pairs from Fasttech and oddly one had the J cable and the other a regular Y. Same packaging and the sticker says "neckstrap style" even for the Y version. Been listening to the Y version and now i'm wondering if its a different model.







mebaali said:


> Both of my SHE3800 ordered (with few months gap between each other) from fasttech has got Y-shaped wires.



Same place. Hmm I wonder if the Y is newer or older ?


----------



## audio123

Anyone ordered the shozy bk?


----------



## mebaali

fairx said:


> Same place. Hmm I wonder if the Y is newer or older ?


 
 Even @golov17 post mentions that he has got a Y-shaped one from fasttech (he got them much before mine). Maybe (i am just assuming) the J style being the latest iteration of these buds? 
  
 BTW, Both buds of mine (y-shaped wire) sounds identical (plus without any foam cover they do sound more sparkly).


----------



## Willber

> Both buds of mine (y-shaped wire) sounds identical (plus without any foam cover they do sound more sparkly).


 
 All three of my SHE3800 from ebay UK came with Y-shaped cables.
 BTW, they sound very good with the earhooks from the VE ex-pack.


----------



## fairx

I'm actually thinking that the J she3800 might just be replacement because of sudden surge of orders?

But from other people description of it and my own early assessment , I can hear the potential here.


----------



## Saoshyant

Still waiting on my Penon Audio order, is two weeks after leaving Hong Kong but no update for US arrival normal, or a little slow?  It's been awhile since I ordered from Penon last, so can't remember quite how slow they are.  I know for Ali orders, I'd typically receive my orders in around 10-14 days.


----------



## audio123

saoshyant said:


> Still waiting on my Penon Audio order, is two weeks after leaving Hong Kong but no update for US arrival normal, or a little slow?  It's been awhile since I ordered from Penon last, so can't remember quite how slow they are.  I know for Ali orders, I'd typically receive my orders in around 10-14 days.


 

 hope u get it soon. u can email them


----------



## jant71

My last Penon order shipped on the 8th of Sept. and tracked into the U.S. on the 17th and to me on the 22nd. I am in NY. Some tips and a Hi-Z 32 with free shipping.


----------



## Townyj

Think i am pretty close to the two earbuds that i want to rotate. TP16 and Red Demun, havent concluded just yet. But my Cygnus and RX1 are quivering in the corner.


----------



## boblauer

saoshyant said:


> Still waiting on my Penon Audio order, is two weeks after leaving Hong Kong but no update for US arrival normal, or a little slow?  It's been awhile since I ordered from Penon last, so can't remember quite how slow they are.  I know for Ali orders, I'd typically receive my orders in around 10-14 days.


 
 I'm on the opposite side of the fence, ordered from AE on Sept 19th not even shipped yet and no update just "Friend We will Ship" when I asked for an update. I get Penon stuff usually about 10 to 12 days from ordering in California.


----------



## MRK1

I just got my Monk+ after 2 months since ordering. Basically I've listened to them a couple of hours out of the box, I noticed that the thick donut foams that were in the expansion pack give me the best bass to isolation ratio. Not a fan of the new light full foams, they're kinda itchy and don't isolate too well, resulting in a loss of bass. Speaking of the expansion pack, I'm pretty disappointed by the silicone rings and especially on the earhook type rubber thingys, they're so small it's difficult to fit them on the monks, impossible to fit them on anything bigger; on top of that, there is no way to use the foams with the earhooks and the foams are mandatory to me.
  
 I hoped to fit them to my Earbell E100 which tends to slip out easily but for now I didn't bother since they are so small I could barely fit them on the Monks. Then I listened to the sound quality and to me it's very similar to the first monk, I think there is slightly more detail, bass, and soundstage. The rest of the sound spectrum sounds nearly identical to me. Even the difference in detail, to me seems noticeable only in the most convoluted songs, I tested them with some japanese anime speedtrance that I am embarassed to like and everything sounds a liiiiittle less congested than on the regular monk. I'm pretty sure on the slightly stronger bass though.
  
 You guys with more refined ears than mine, how would you describe the differences between Monk & Monk+? Also, does the Monk+ get affected by Burn-in? I don't think I ever noticed any difference with the older one.


----------



## Ira Delphic

mrk1 said:


> ...Speaking of the expansion pack, I'm pretty disappointed by the silicone rings and especially on the earhook type rubber thingys, they're so small it's difficult to fit them on the monks, impossible to fit them on anything bigger; on top of that, there is no way to use the foams with the earhooks and the foams are mandatory to me...


 
  
 It's a little tricky to get the earhooks on the bud but once installed they won't fall off. If they were easier to put on it would be easier for them to fall off. I think the earhooks are best for outdoor activities. They don't help with sound isolation to any significant degree, but keep the Monk in position. 
  
 Over the weekend I plan on sacrificing a pair of foams to place over the earhooks. A small incision on the rim of the foam should allow the "shark tooth" to stick out from the foam.


----------



## Brian Coffey

I have also seen the hook stretched over the full thin foams but there were a couple of small tears and I couldn't see the benefit of having the foam to the inside of the earhook.


----------



## Ira Delphic

brian coffey said:


> I have also seen the hook stretched over the full thin foams but there were a couple of small tears and I couldn't see the benefit of having the foam to the inside of the earhook.


 
  
 I wouldn't try it that way. The earhook is a tight fit as is and even if the diameter was increased slightly there will still be a ton of sound leakage.


----------



## MRK1

ira delphic said:


> It's a little tricky to get the earhooks on the bud but once installed they won't fall off. If they were easier to put on it would be easier for them to fall off. I think the earhooks are best for outdoor activities. They don't help with sound isolation to any significant degree, but keep the Monk in position.
> 
> Over the weekend I plan on sacrificing a pair of foams to place over the earhooks. A small incision on the rim of the foam should allow the "shark tooth" to stick out from the foam.


 
  
 I know, I wanted to use them with the Baldoor E100 which don't fit properly into my ears. I will try to fiddle with them later today and see if I can get the E100 to fit better, because when they don't move out of place I really like the sound. The Monk already has 100% perfect fit with me so I have no need for the hooks, I bought the expansion pack mainly to get the hooks to get some use out of the E100, but I didn't expect them to be so small. Even the silicone rings are ridiculously small, but they should work alright with the RX1, since I've heard they are smaller than the Monk.

 The Monk is just perfection, just stick some foams on them and they're good to go.


----------



## jamesbdh

I still have some burn in to do but out of the earbuds I have.  My recommendation for "budget earbuds" are
 tp16 = awesome sound. a bit on the brighter side.  Great musicality, clarity, and sound stage.
 Tmusic 2 = darker and possibly not as clear as tp16 but the bass impact balances it out.  Especially if you are willing to EQ.
 RX1 = mid vocal bliss
  
 I have been really impressed by the tp16 and Tmusic.  The RX1 is just a special case earbud for me.


----------



## ClieOS

ld100 said:


> I was also under impression that you prefer classical. I believe it is somewhere in the thread. Can you please descibe what kind of music you listen to? That would be very helpful to know. And thank you for creating and updating the list! Any way you could do the short descriptions as you used to?


 
  


vapman said:


> Im very sorry about this, clieos. I have read numerous other posts by other people in this thread at different times stating basically you only listen classical, however i've never heard from you directly about your musical preferences, only read other posts by people not yourself. I apologize as i did not know i was in error thinking this.
> ...


 
  
 I listen to music one album at a time and like to shuffle some of them (with a mix of old and new albums) onto my DAP from time to time, then swap them out for a new group of albums. Here is the list of my current albums collection on my Sony A15 and it should give you some idea:
  
 1989 - Taylor Swift
 A Hundred Miles Or More Collection - Alison Krauss
 Andre Riue: Romantic Paradise
 Back Again... No Matter What - Boyzone
 Back to Bedlam - James Blunt
 Bad Self Portrait - Lake Street Dive
 Believe II - Orianthi
 Breathe In. Breathe Out - Hilary Duff
 Cedar + Gold - Tristan Prettyman
 Classics - She & Him
 Come Away With Me - Norah Jones
 Dance With My Father - Luther Vandross
 Days Are Gone - Haim
 Eyes To The Telescope - KT Tunstall
 Forever In Love - The Best of Kenny G
 Goodbye From California - Lindsey Ray
 Greatest Hits - Jewels
 Greatest Bits...So Far - Pink
 Gypsy Heart - Colbie Caillat
 Kaleidoscope Heart - Sara Bareilles
 Keeps Gettin Better (A Decade of Hits) - Christina Aguilera
 Labyrinth - 罗亿诗 (*Chinese Pop)
 Lenka - Lenka
 Lights Out - Ingrid Michaelson
 Little Voice - Sara Bareilles
 Longstrong - Christina Perri
 New York City - The Peter Malick Group featuring Norah Jones
 One Cell In The Sea - A Fine Frenzy
 Open Your Ears - HDtracks
 Paint My Love: Greatest Hits - Michael Learns to Rock
 Pentatonix - Pentatonix
 Romance - Olivia Ong (*Chinese+English Pop)
 Roxette Hits - Roxette
 Save Me, San Francisco - Train
 Simply Love - Halie Loren
 Smile.. It Confuses People - Sandi Thom
 Strip Me - Natasha Bedingfield
 Swing When You're Wining - Robbie Williams
 Take Love Easy - Sophie Milman
 Taking Dream - Echosmith
 The Best of Nelly Furtado
 The Best of Kitaro
 The Best of Sixpence None The Ricker
 The Bright Side - Lenka
 The Ol' Razzle Dazzle - Missy Higgins
 The Platinum Collection - Laura Branigan
 The Very Best of Frankie Valli & The Four Seasons
 The Is Acting - Sia
 This Is It - Michael Jackson
 Truly Madly Completely: The Best of Savage Garden
 Tuskegee - Lionel Richie
 Two - Lenka
 Ultimate Santana
 Under the Influence - Straight No Chaser
 ピアノによる珠玉のアニメ映画主題歌集「いつも何度でも/もののけ姫」 - 奥户巴寿 (*movie soundtrack piano cover)
 友缘共聚1~4 - 张学友 (*Chinese Pop)
 大巴六九 - 黄美珍 (*Chinese Pop)
 李宗盛的音樂旅程-不捨 (*Chinese Pop)
 梁弘志- 爱与歌纪念专辑 (*Chinese Pop)
 越難越愛Love Collection - 吳若希 (*Chinese Pop)
 隽永作品辑 -  周治平 (*Chinese Pop)
 漂洋过海来看你 精选集 - 娃娃 (*Chinese Pop)


----------



## Saoshyant

I learned to hate one artist on that list years ago. Just got so tired of their hit.


----------



## vapman

jamesbdh said:


> I still have some burn in to do but out of the earbuds I have.  My recommendation for "budget earbuds" are
> tp16 = awesome sound. a bit on the brighter side.  Great musicality, clarity, and sound stage.
> Tmusic 2 = darker and possibly not as clear as tp16 but the bass impact balances it out.  Especially if you are willing to EQ.
> RX1 = mid vocal bliss
> ...




Did you have one of the 1st version t-musics?


----------



## jamesbdh

vapman said:


> Did you have one of the 1st version t-musics?


 

 No I was waiting for them to release one with a mic(they said they were shortly but I never saw it). With the good reviews of v1 and v2 with a microphone I went for it.


----------



## jailhouselounge

What would you consider to be a step up from Monk Plus within $20, $50, $100 price range? Will use them for jazz, chillout, and rock.


----------



## JASru

jailhouselounge said:


> What would you consider to be a step up from Monk Plus within $20, $50, $100 price range? Will use them for jazz, chillout, and rock.


 
 I guess many would agree that for 20 usd mark one of the best options would be RX-1.


----------



## Doori

Another signature under 20, the TP16 are really great.


----------



## Ira Delphic

jasru said:


> jailhouselounge said:
> 
> 
> > What would you consider to be a step up from Monk Plus within $20, $50, $100 price range? Will use them for jazz, chillout, and rock.
> ...


 
  
 I was considering the RX-1 but mixed opinions here. By trying other buds you may just find out how good the Monk+ really is. 
 I'll likely get the 1More  Piston Android/iOS (1more EO320 XiaoMi Hybrid In-Ear Earphone stereo earbud with Remote Mic ) just for comparison. And the mic and controls might come in handy.


----------



## boblauer

jailhouselounge said:


> What would you consider to be a step up from Monk Plus within $20, $50, $100 price range? Will use them for jazz, chillout, and rock.


 
 Honestly for straight ahead Rock the MP hits the spot. I also drag with me either the RX1 for vocals or Jazz and Music maker TP16. I don't own any buds above the $35 mark as I found none that wow me at  price points above there. Note I have not listened to Cygnus, Zen or Mojito.


----------



## ld100

jailhouselounge said:


> What would you consider to be a step up from Monk Plus within $20, $50, $100 price range? Will use them for jazz, chillout, and rock.




Cygnus in my book is the only one that I would rate as a must have from what I tried. It is not perfect, but certainly is fun. Monk at its price is awesome, but price is the factor. I would not call it awesome if it was > than $25...


----------



## jailhouselounge

Anyone have experience with OSTRY KC08 and OSTRY KC08t? THOSE vs VE ZEN?... Hmmm... Tough choices... What do you think CLEO?


----------



## chicken beer

vapman said:


> Have em send you a PayPal invoice!
> 
> Agree the rx1 or mx98s is a solid level above the "cheap buds".


 
  
 RX1 has a big issue for me, the static electricity pops when using a DAP with the RX1 when walking, maybe it's my jeans frictionating, but all other earbuds/IEMs I have don't have this issue.


----------



## chicken beer

jailhouselounge said:


> Anyone have experience with OSTRY KC08 and OSTRY KC08t? THOSE vs VE ZEN?... Hmmm... Tough choices... What do you think CLEO?


 
  
 KC08t I tried once, very detailed sound but tonality not my cup of cake.


----------



## vapman

chicken beer said:


> RX1 has a big issue for me, the static electricity pops when using a DAP with the RX1 when walking, maybe it's my jeans frictionating, but all other earbuds/IEMs I have don't have this issue.


 

 That's pretty wild, I don't think I've heard of anybody else having this issue (I think) and I had two sets of RX1 at one time... anyone else get static pops in their RX1?


----------



## chicken beer

vapman said:


> That's pretty wild, I don't think I've heard of anybody else having this issue (I think) and I had two sets of RX1 at one time... anyone else get static pops in their RX1?


 
  
 Used an AK120 DAP, was wearing Levi's jeans (501).


----------



## jailhouselounge

Oh is that so? I'm thinking of getting something within the $100+ margin. I wonder how it fares with Zen. Something with clarity and good bass impact would be ideal!


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I'm still listening to only Cygnus for portable use (I use Zen 2 ...or full sized cans, when I'm at home with an amp). They are basically perfect for my ears. Great soundstage, great bass, great 3D imaging, and perfect vocals. I use the Heigi foams for them now (my stock ones got super dirty). Have to say that the Heigi foams make Cygnus even more comfortable and are thicker/more durable. However they also turn yellow after a while. I'm beginning to think all white foams turn yellowish.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Ostry KC08 is super V-shaped. So expect recessed vocals, but epic treble and bass. They are the only earbud I have with really really low extension on sub-bass. Like you can feel the bass. But some people call it excessive or "bloated". I thought it was cool. But I don't really dig V-shaped too much as compared to balanced tonal signature so I don't use the KC08's too much unless I want to have a bass session with hip-hop music.


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman said:


> That's pretty wild, I don't think I've heard of anybody else having this issue (I think) and I had two sets of RX1 at one time... anyone else get static pops in their RX1?




Had it happen a couple of times, but it's rare.


----------



## headjelly

jailhouselounge said:


> What would you consider to be a step up from Monk Plus within $20, $50, $100 price range? Will use them for jazz, chillout, and rock.


 
  
 Boarseman MX98S, it's my new favorite earbud.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

headjelly said:


> Boarseman MX98S, it's my new favorite earbud.


 

 That is it, I am getting myself a pair!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 ----------------------------------------------------------
  
 Side note, I am NOT a fan of EQing anymore.  I usually listen to my earbuds with a flat EQ, but for fun I bumped up the bass with the *MusicMaker TP16* and I am having a LOT of fun with *Die Antwoord's* new album "*Mount Ninji And Da Nice Time Kid*".
  
 --


----------



## vapman

bloodypenguin said:


> That is it, I am getting myself a pair!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 A good choice I think, I've had my MX98s on the burn machine for a little over a week now, and enjoyed using it out of the box too.
 I have to admit I am EQ junkie and no amount of rehab will keep me from boosting that sub bass up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 I don't remember if you have a Cygnus, either way, it's really a baby Cygnus.


----------



## music4mhell

bloodypenguin said:


> headjelly said:
> 
> 
> > Boarseman MX98S, it's my new favorite earbud.
> ...


 
 I am getting a pair too then


----------



## vapman

My only warning about them is if you already own the Cygnus, and you don't want a possibly redundant set of earbuds, then you can skip on them.
  
 If you like the Cygnus but don't want to spend $70 or whatever it is, they're damn good for $30. The Cygnus is a little better in every way but the MX98s holds up great.
  
 If you don't have a Cygnus and have been wavering on getting one, or used to have one, the MX98s a great buy.
  
 P.S. don't take it for granted how nice it is having a blue earbud for right and a red earbud for left!


----------



## fairx

this morning I listen to my she3800 and comparing it to RX-1 on some track. she3800 obviously the darkest sounding of anything I own. the highs are somewhat attenuated. I had muddy bass in iem / headphnoe before but somehow she3800 seems presenting something different too.
  
 with track by Liber - Czyste szaleństwo, with my balance or bright iem or earbud, I can hear the chant and crowd in the background but with she3800, I can feel like I'm actually hear the chant and crowd IN THE STADIUM. 
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdBYBhy1kHM
  
 I gave to my friend for audition and he doesn't like it very much because of recessed vocal with rock track


----------



## Sehn82

fairx said:


> this morning I listen to my she3800 and comparing it to RX-1 on some track. she3800 obviously the darkest sounding of anything I own. the highs are somewhat attenuated. I had muddy bass in iem / headphnoe before but somehow she3800 seems presenting something different too.
> 
> with track by Liber - Czyste szaleństwo, with my balance or bright iem or earbud, I can hear the chant and crowd in the background but with she3800, I can feel like I'm actually hear the chant and crowd IN THE STADIUM.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Same impressions I got with mine. SHE3800 accentuates that reverb/surround experience. Does well for tracks that have a lot of these background elements (opera, orchestra with lots of violins/cello, some R&B stuff etc) as it makes it sound very fluid and expansive, as though you're in a concert hall. I still have mine burning in to see if the sound signature changes.
  
 I'm more of a clarity guy so these probably won't be for me. Will see how they fare after some burn in.


----------



## jrazmar

ld100 said:


> Cygnus in my book is the only one that I would rate as a must have from what I tried. It is not perfect, but certainly is fun. Monk at its price is awesome, but price is the factor. I would not call it awesome if it was > than $25...


 
  
 I don't agree BEFORE but I am NOW. Cygnus has just the right sound sig that my ears favor. A little bit improvement in soundstage and openness of space then it will be perfect for me. My Zen 2.0, Edimun and the rest in my collection are sleeping in my bag. Next stop will be the Shozy BK and I might try either the TP16 or 1more Piston since they are not that expensive to have. Still dreaming to hear the Blox TM7 one day wondering why it's in the top spot of the list. I had the BE7 and still have the BE3 but I don't find anything fantastic with them so far.


----------



## vapman

I have a BE5 and it's awfully similar to the mid 90's Sony high end earbud sound. That's probably my favorite thing about it.


----------



## Tomasz2D

jailhouselounge said:


> Anyone have experience with OSTRY KC08 and OSTRY KC08t? THOSE vs VE ZEN?... Hmmm... Tough choices... What do you think CLEO?


 
  
 To which Zen are you referring to?


fairx said:


> with track by Liber - Czyste szaleństwo


 
 And what is Liber doing in Malaysia?


----------



## fairx

I just notice  TP16 actually have mic. Can ask without mic instead? the thing is my SGS can't handle mic (TRRS) without modification or adapter. still can't get the right adapter. or perhaps someone can show me the right adapter? when used with TRRS the sound echoes and I had to press the mic button indefinitely to get the proper stereo


----------



## ozkan

A small tip for you guys. Closing the vents with a tiny bit Blutac does broaden the soundstage by reducing the mid-bass. The midrange sits back slightly along with faster bass attacks and more subbass presence thus the sound becomes more balanced through the spectrum. Well, it worked very well on my Monks. It may also work on the other earphones using the same shell design. Just my two cents. 


Blue thing in the picture is blue Blutac.


----------



## music4mhell

fairx said:


> I just notice  TP16 actually have mic. Can ask without mic instead? the thing is my SGS can't handle mic (TRRS) without modification or adapter. still can't get the right adapter. or perhaps someone can show me the right adapter? when used with TRRS the sound echoes and I had to press the mic button indefinitely to get the proper stereo


 
 Penon has the TP16 model without Mic.
 I have bought the mic version.


----------



## fairx

tomasz2d said:


> And what is Liber doing in Malaysia?


 
 LOL, I have no idea actually. I don't even know which country or what language he sang!! suddenly pop up in my spotify radio 3 years and I like the song. LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 The song will enter my "Headphone Test" playlist soon just because of she3800
  


music4mhell said:


> Penon has the TP16 model without Mic.
> I have bought the mic version.





 Thanks!!


----------



## purplesun

I need some J-cable in my life. Is there any consensus as to whether SHE3800's recent production or fasttech's current stock or is it just the luck the draw? Thanks.
  
 Btw, $3 earbuds in the same discussion with $300 earbuds; if only the rest of humanity can live this way


----------



## fairx

purplesun said:


> I need some J-cable in my life. Is there any consensus as to whether SHE3800's recent production or fasttech's current stock or is it just the luck the draw? Thanks.
> 
> Btw, $3 earbuds in the same discussion with $300 earbuds; if only the rest of humanity can live this way


 
 seems like fastech recently just sending  she3800 J cable, from what I read in http://www.head-fi.org/forum/newestpost/812853 
 I ordered like 3 weeks ago


----------



## purplesun

fairx said:


> seems like fastech recently just sending  she3800 J cable, from what I read in http://www.head-fi.org/forum/newestpost/812853
> I ordered like 3 weeks ago


 

 Thanks. Ordering now.
  
 Btw, Sheila Majid Legenda album rulez!!
 I know, 20 year too late


----------



## thugangel123

I got my she3800 yesterday from fasttech. Got a straight cable one.


----------



## purplesun

thugangel123 said:


> I got my she3800 yesterday from fasttech. Got a straight cable one.


 
 Grrr... looks like a lucky dip with my 3 bucks.


----------



## tommo21

purplesun said:


> Grrr... looks like a lucky dip with my 3 bucks.


 
 I got 3 J-Cables(out of three) from Fastech yesterday. Last time I ordered I got a straight cable.


----------



## fairx

purplesun said:


> Thanks. Ordering now.
> 
> Btw, Sheila Majid Legenda album rulez!!
> I know, 20 year too late


 
 Haha Sheila Majid rulez!! no doubt, so dees most of RAP (Roslan Aziz production) artists, have you heard Zaina Abidin solo albums? Phil Collins himself (IIRC) praised him for the best renditions of "You'll Be in My Heart" (Tarzan OST)
  
 https://www.discogs.com/label/408124-Roslan-Aziz-Productions


----------



## LaRzZa

I got 2 J-cables from Fastech yesterday. email them and say you want the J-cables.


----------



## purplesun

larzza said:


> I got 2 J-cables from Fastech yesterday. email them and say you want the J-cables.


 

 Emailing them now.


----------



## mebaali

Have ordered this below (used) buds from ebay India site for 4.5 US$ (should reach me in a week's time, I guess). Not sure on the seller's claims of them being vintage Aiwa buds, still went ahead to try them out.


----------



## purplesun

fairx said:


> Haha Sheila Majid rulez!! no doubt, so dees most of RAP (Roslan Aziz production) artists, have you heard Zaina Abidin solo albums? Phil Collins himself (IIRC) praised him for the best renditions of "You'll Be in My Heart" (Tarzan OST)
> 
> https://www.discogs.com/label/408124-Roslan-Aziz-Productions


 

 Whoa! Only know about the great lady. The arrangements on her albums were to die for. Too bad, she never saw much success with her English songs. With music/singing like that, there's absolutely no need to understand the language.


----------



## music4mhell

mebaali said:


> Have ordered this below (used) buds from ebay India site for 4.5 US$ (should reach me in a week's time, I guess). Not sure on the seller's claims of them being vintage Aiwa buds, still went ahead to try them out.


 
 Link please.!


----------



## mebaali

music4mhell said:


> Link please.!


 
 thegreatindianvintageshop is the seller and there was only one piece that he had of them. Just try vintage earphones in the eBay India search.
  
 Bought it for 300 bucks (including shipping).


----------



## Danneq

I have never heard of Aiwa earbuds with Sennheiser MX400 housings. Aiwa always used their own designs.


----------



## mebaali

danneq said:


> I have never heard of Aiwa earbuds with Sennheiser MX400 housings. Aiwa always used their own designs.


 
 Yep. That's why I too am not expecting much from them (about the seller's claim of vintage Aiwa buds). Still didn't want to miss out on what looks like a decent set of buds (at least from the appearance) for a very low price


----------



## music4mhell

till now i was using TP16 only with mobile.
 Today i used with my Mojo, wow, it is a high end earbud, it can be compared to cygnus, zen


----------



## Tomasz2D

purplesun said:


> I need some J-cable in my life.


 
 M&G Pern H1: J-cable and MX500 sound made right.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/232012716569
  
 Edit: not available already. I don't know if they will come back.


----------



## purplesun

tomasz2d said:


> J-cable and MX500 sound made right:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/232012716569


 
 That bass-deaf FR peaking at 10k appeals to me as well - I can work with that.
 Thanks, will research a bit more.
  
 EDIT: yeah, could not get the buy button.


----------



## kurtextrem

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-Newest-Rose-Masya-Flat-Head-Earphone-Double-Dynamic-Earplug-HIFI-Monitor-DIY-Earphone-With-2/1825606_32739193404.html
 vs VX Pro regarding fit. I think both are "big" (bigger than VE's type of shells?) - but which one is smaller?
  
 And has anyone listened to 3.5 TRRS Zen 2, with an adapter to regular source? Does it change the sound in any way or would that be just senseless?


----------



## tommo21

kurtextrem said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-Newest-Rose-Masya-Flat-Head-Earphone-Double-Dynamic-Earplug-HIFI-Monitor-DIY-Earphone-With-2/1825606_32739193404.html
> vs VX Pro regarding fit. I think both are "big" (bigger than VE's type of shells?) - but which one is smaller?
> 
> And has anyone listened to 3.5 TRRS Zen 2, with an adapter to regular source? Does it change the sound in any way or would that be just senseless?


 
 For me the Rose-flat head shells are too big, but the VX Pro is a perfect fit. It's only slightly larger than the  Sennheiser type shells. The VX Pro is probably my favourite earbud at the moment, but also liking what I hear from the Ty Hi-z400ohms at first listen today.


----------



## jrazmar

This Rose Masya seems reasonably priced than the Mojito. I wonder if the sound is a bit of a downgrade or the opposite. Hope someone can post a review here somewhere.


----------



## luedriver

found these on ebay
  
KOSS KE7 Earbuds
  
 and
  
Audio-Technica ATH-C770
  
  
 any info on either one?


----------



## Willber

luedriver said:


> Audio-Technica ATH-C770


 
 They look interesting...


----------



## tommo21

willber said:


> They look interesting...


 
 Yep..thought so too, so I ordered them. Not so sure about the Koss one's.


----------



## Willber

tommo21 said:


> Yep..thought so too, so I ordered them. Not so sure about the Koss one's.


 
 I'll wait to hear what you think. By then my Piston EO320 should be here - my End Game <$25 buds, possibly!


----------



## kurtextrem

http://www.audio-technica.com.hk/index.php?op=productdetails&pid=585&cid=22&sid=1&modelId=ATH-C770&lang=eng
 ^seems to be from 2013


----------



## jant71

luedriver said:


> found these on ebay
> 
> KOSS KE7 Earbuds
> 
> ...


 

 These old Koss look interesting...http://www.ebay.com/itm/301885228114


----------



## audio123




----------



## Tomasz2D

fairx said:


> LOL, I have no idea actually. I don't even know which country or what language he sang!! suddenly pop up in my spotify radio 3 years and I like the song. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Here you go. Some more tracks to test your SHE3800. Direct delivery straight from Poland right to your doors 
https://youtu.be/nFOLhtsyvMA
https://youtu.be/K6vZzFBGVa4
https://youtu.be/4irrHT5inm0
https://youtu.be/AGprgxbqXoQ
https://youtu.be/5PXAUoSh0-Y
https://youtu.be/IJsP0Uu1yTM
https://youtu.be/Q8RyopAXwDM


----------



## AudioNewbi3

kurtextrem said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-Newest-Rose-Masya-Flat-Head-Earphone-Double-Dynamic-Earplug-HIFI-Monitor-DIY-Earphone-With-2/1825606_32739193404.html
> vs VX Pro regarding fit. I think both are "big" (bigger than VE's type of shells?) - but which one is smaller?


 
  
  


tommo21 said:


> For me the Rose-flat head shells are too big, but the VX Pro is a perfect fit. It's only slightly larger than the  Sennheiser type shells.


 
  
  
  


jrazmar said:


> This Rose Masya seems reasonably priced than the Mojito. I wonder if the sound is a bit of a downgrade or the opposite. Hope someone can post a review here somewhere.


 
 Rose Masya resembles the Mojito but is tunned for vocals. For instruments, Mojito is recommended.


----------



## Saoshyant

I wonder if the Masya will surpass Cygnus.


----------



## tommo21

audionewbi3 said:


> Rose Masya resembles the Mojito but is tunned for vocals. For instruments, Mojito is recommended.


 
  
 It feels bigger in my ear, but apparantly not then....may be the thickness or shape that doesn't fit then. No matter what I couldn't get it to stay in my left ear. It's the Mojito that I had.


----------



## ld100

> Rose Masya resembles the Mojito but is tunned for vocals. For instruments, Mojito is recommended.


 
  
 That sounds very interesting! Has anyone ordered them yet?


----------



## kurtextrem

audionewbi3 said:


> Rose Masya resembles the Mojito but is tunned for vocals. For instruments, Mojito is recommended.


 
 woot, thank you!! By any chance, do you have a bud by MusicMaker (Tomahawk)? The fit is not great for me (because of the "back body" and from the looks I thought the Mojito has a similar size.


----------



## luedriver

I also found this on amazon for Audio-Technica ATH-C770
  
 its Chinese amazon and has a few reviews on it, google can translate, but mostly gets lost, idk Chinese myself, just posting if this could be helpful to anyone
  
  
 *edit, just bought it (from ebay), now just to wait until 17 Oct...


----------



## AkashS04

headjelly said:


> Boarseman MX98S, it's my new favorite earbud.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Can you pls provide some review on Boarseman MX98S. I am looking for some earbud which is  very Bassy and Warm with good details also. Something which is way better than Old Apple Earbuds. Apple Earpods good in terms if sound but very uncomfortable. Someone suggested me to buy Boarseman MX98S but I don't find any review at all.


----------



## tommasoff

Hello guys, after listening a pair of monk plus with my fiio x5 i definitely fell into the earbuds world...
  
 in several pages of this thread someone hinted about this buds https://world.taobao.com/item/37119460429.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a1z09.2.0.0.W6AQDw&_u=p2i926dj9fa1 .
  
 as i have understood, these are the same https://it.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-Handmade-PB-24ohm-Hi-Fi-DDM-Dual-Diaphragm-Matrix-Dynamic-Audiophile-Earphone-Earbuds/32651127312.html?shortkey=mAzYzaaq&addresstype=600
  
 i googled a lot but i couldn't find anything about sound quality...
  
 any info would be appreciated


----------



## dearyon

TY Hi-Z HP-32 L-plug arrived yesterday, ordered it from Penon. It is actually my first oversea purchase and I'm satisfied with it.
 About the sound on <20 hours of burn-in, it sounds boring compared to Monk+
 Mid is so-so, treble is simplified, bass is good but kinda slow compared to Monk+
 Maybe need more burn-in...


----------



## golov17




----------



## jrazmar

audionewbi3 said:


> Rose Masya resembles the Mojito but is tunned for vocals. For instruments, Mojito is recommended.




If that's the case, the Cygnus will have a serious competition coming. I will definitely buy this if it sounds even better than the Shozy but better wait for more impressions first. For comfort, I doubt if it will surpass the Cygnus level.


----------



## Tomasz2D

cocopro said:


> I've tried Zen 1.0 and it's magnificent, reminded me full size cans unlike any other buds I've tried (Ashura 1.0, Monk 1.0, E100, H185 etc).
> Are there any low impedance buds that have similar out-of-head soundstage?
> Is seahf 320 ohm comparable to Zen? The 400 ohm seems to have pretty low rating.


 
  
 SeaHF Smart 1.0 320 Ohm is built like Zen 1.0 but may sound different, besides I would say SeaHF LD-3.0 320 Ohm is currently a better choise.
 I have never heard Zen 1.0 but low independence earbud that has similar soundstage to SeaHF Smart 1.0 320 Ohm is FARERL 64 Ohm.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tommo21 said:


>


 
 Hmm, that is very interesting. Maybe the weird housing design is to be blamed?
  


ld100 said:


> That sounds very interesting! Has anyone ordered them yet?


 
 At least that is what their maker told me 
  


kurtextrem said:


> woot, thank you!! By any chance, do you have a bud by MusicMaker (Tomahawk)? The fit is not great for me (because of the "back body" and from the looks I thought the Mojito has a similar size.


 
 Yes I have the Tomahawks, because they use the same front cover as the MX500, I doubt that there will be a difference in size. My Tomahawk is not with me now unfortunately, thus I cannot measure them for you.
  


jrazmar said:


> If that's the case, the Cygnus will have a serious competition coming. I will definitely buy this if it sounds even better than the Shozy but better wait for more impressions first. For comfort, I doubt if it will surpass the Cygnus level.


 
 Yes, we shall wait for someone to take the plunge and tell us how it sounds.


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> till now i was using TP16 only with mobile.
> Today i used with my Mojo, wow, it is a high end earbud, it can be compared to cygnus, zen




Is it more bright than cygnus?


----------



## vapman

akashs04 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Can you pls provide some review on Boarseman MX98S. I am looking for some earbud which is  very Bassy and Warm with good details also. Something which is way better than Old Apple Earbuds. Apple Earpods good in terms if sound but very uncomfortable. Someone suggested me to buy Boarseman MX98S but I don't find any review at all.




Mx98s leans a bit bright for me personally but is nice and comfortable.


----------



## AkashS04

Thanks. If it is bright then I might not like it. Shall I go for Monk+. How is Cowon earbuds? I saw they have 2 earbuds types of earphones


----------



## Fabi

dearyon said:


> TY Hi-Z HP-32 L-plug arrived yesterday, ordered it from Penon. It is actually my first oversea purchase and I'm satisfied with it.
> 
> About the sound on <20 hours of burn-in, it sounds boring compared to Monk+
> 
> ...



I'm at around 70hrs of burn-in with it, I find it close to v1 when well powered but I'll let it burn more time in before giving my thoughts.


----------



## golov17

New from creator of Black Onyx Earbud


----------



## Ira Delphic

Is this a new earbud? If already mentioned, sorry. Any opinions? I prefer not using an amp, just my LG V10.
 Seahf 32 ohms In Ear Earphone
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-New-Seahf-32-ohms-In-Ear-Earphone-Flat-Head-Plug-Earphone-Earplug-DIY-HIFI-Bass/32712869252.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.23.JhAVsv&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_7,searchweb201602_4_10057_10056_10065_10068_10055_10067_10054_10069_10059_10058_418_10073_10017_10070_10060_10061_10052_9999_10062_10053_10050_10051,searchweb201603_6&btsid=444dc6e1-096a-48ae-b248-23d216f6f6e8
  
 BTW I'm intrigued with @Chick Beer posts on earbuds (specifically VE and Seahf's former business collaboration) since the Baidu Tieba forums are in his native language.


----------



## kurtextrem

golov17 said:


> New from creator of Black Onyx Earbud


 
 translation?


----------



## cocopro

tomasz2d said:


> SeaHF Smart 1.0 320 Ohm is built like Zen 1.0 but may sound different, besides I would say SeaHF LD-3.0 320 Ohm is currently a better choise.
> I have never heard Zen 1.0 but low independence earbud that has similar soundstage to SeaHF Smart 1.0 320 Ohm is FARERL 64 Ohm.


 

 Thank you!


----------



## tommo21

This was my work setup for today. Excellent buds.


----------



## HairyHeadMara

kurtextrem said:


> translation?



New earbuds from earbud Thailand
prominent mid, tight bass, nice treble, fun sounding. With microphone for using with smartphones.

available now.
Special price if order now until 31 December 2016 Only 790 Baht from Normal price 890 Baht


----------



## BloodyPenguin

hairyheadmara said:


> New earbuds from earbud Thailand
> prominent mid, tight bass, nice treble, fun sounding. With microphone for using with smartphones.
> 
> available now.
> Special price if order now until 31 December 2016 Only 790 Baht from Normal price 890 Baht


 
  
 Here is my review of the Earbud Thailand - Black Onyx Earbud (BOE):

 http://www.head-fi.org/products/earbud-thailand-black-onyx-earbud-boe/reviews/14988
  

  
  
  
 I'm going to try and get my hands on the new model if possible.
  
  
 --


----------



## teston

bloodypenguin said:


> Here is my review of the Earbud Thailand - Black Onyx Earbud (BOE):
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/earbud-thailand-black-onyx-earbud-boe/reviews/14988
> 
> ...



Nice review penguin!
How is it compare to monk/monk+ and RX-1?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

teston said:


> Nice review penguin!
> How is it compare to monk/monk+ and RX-1?


 
  
 Ha, I knew someone would post this!  
  
 The BOE would be the warmest of the bunch, with the most bass, though it does not lack details.
  
 For Mids, Highs and Soundstage, I would need to spend more time with them to compare that.  Maybe I can later tonight, not sure.


----------



## AkashS04

Are they good buy for my requirement. I am using Nano 7th Gen with old apple earbuds and did not find anything good which is very Warm, plenty of Bass and also not sharp but detailed. I am reconsidering to buy Nano 1st gen for "That" sound. Are that better then old apple earbuds in terms of Warmness and Bass as well as Details. I guess it is impossible for any buds to beat Old Apple Earbuds as I did not find anything better than them so far.


----------



## AkashS04

I guess White Crystal Earbud V.2 is the best suited for the requirement I mentioned above. Warm, Bassy and not sharp. Right?


----------



## vapman

akashs04 said:


> Are they good buy for my requirement. I am using Nano 7th Gen with old apple earbuds and did not find anything good which is very Warm, plenty of Bass and also not sharp but detailed. I am reconsidering to buy Nano 1st gen for "That" sound. Are that better then old apple earbuds in terms of Warmness and Bass as well as Details. I guess it is impossible for any buds to beat Old Apple Earbuds as I did not find anything better than them so far.


 

 Forget what I said about the MX98s being bright, they'll be like a million bucks compared to your apple earbuds, and will probably give more details than you'll be able to deal with.


----------



## AkashS04

Or it will be Black Onyx Earbud which is Bassy and Warm. I think High should be less for nto being sharp and Mid and Low should be higher in number. Right?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

akashs04 said:


> I guess White Crystal Earbud V.2 is the best suited for the requirement I mentioned above. Warm, Bassy and not sharp. Right?


 
  
 Unfortunately no one has heard them yet, so we just have to go on what Earbud Thailand's says.  Though, I would venture to guess it is an accurate description from them.


----------



## AkashS04

Pls share  some details. As you mentioned that they are bright, I realise that they are sharp and will not ave any warmness at all. If you have Old Apple earbuds and MX98S both, I wud love to see their comparison.


----------



## vapman

Nobody here but BPenguin has heard that Black Onyx so you would have to depend on his review if you are going to buy it.
 How about get the MX98s and a couple other budget buds like the TY 32 and Monk Plus and your preferences when you hear more will let people make better suggestions.
  
 You are mistaken mx98s has no warmth. It indeed does.
  
 you will not easily find a review of apple earbuds, old or new, as most thread members threw theirs in the trash


----------



## AkashS04

The problem is that they all are available on AliExpress only and eve if I order them, they will arrive not before 35-40 days.


----------



## vapman

akashs04 said:


> The problem is that they all are available on AliExpress only and eve if I order them, they will arrive not before 35-40 days.


 

 yes and same for every member of this thread..... which is almost all American and European users...
  
 that is why people are telling you to buy the ones you want so the wait for delivery can start!


----------



## basketballTaco

Wow I just received the Tomahawk yesterday and I've not listened to music like this in a long time. I definitely understand what you mean when you describe the way these immerse you in the music. Im loving the sweet mids and the wide soundstage the most. 





fairx said:


> I own both, tomahawk is better overall IMO, but RX-1 really excels in mids but not s much in bass except sub bass.
> 
> Tomahawk is the "wierdest" of all my iem or earbud. others sounds like a flat paintings in comparison, while tomahawk is like you can focus more, see more (hear more). It's not 3D.. what's the words.. it's like swimming in music, *Immersing* might be the word. Sorry English is not my 1st langage.
> 
> while I have something I can talk about RX-1 (see above), I have much more praise for Tomahawk.


----------



## AkashS04

Ok. So let me know if MX98S is good and better than Apple Earbuds. I will order them 1st. Also, any shop in NYC whee I can go and test number of earbuds and earphones. There were 2-3 dedicated shops in Singapore and few electronic shops which were having Earphnes to test along with other items also. But in those shops also, you can get at least 12-15 earbphones to test and in those dedicate music shops, almost all sample they have. I did not find even a single such shop in NY.


----------



## vapman

akashs04 said:


> Ok. So let me know if MX98S is good and better than Apple Earbuds. I will order them 1st. Also, any shop in NYC whee I can go and test number of earbuds and earphones. There were 2-3 dedicated shops in Singapore and few electronic shops which were having Earphnes to test along with other items also. But in those shops also, you can get at least 12-15 earbphones to test and in those dedicate music shops, almost all sample they have. I did not find even a single such shop in NY.


 

 NYC has no such thing to my knowledge. i have spend a large amount of time there in the last 10 years and know of no headphone stores like there are out East.
  
 Get the mx98s. Then get the TY 32, Monk Plus, SHE3800, any other budget buds that are well looked upon.


----------



## Ira Delphic

akashs04 said:


> Ok. So let me know if MX98S is good and better than Apple Earbuds. I will order them 1st. Also, any shop in NYC whee I can go and test number of earbuds and earphones. There were 2-3 dedicated shops in Singapore and few electronic shops which were having Earphnes to test along with other items also. But in those shops also, you can get at least 12-15 earbphones to test and in those dedicate music shops, almost all sample they have. I did not find even a single such shop in NY.


 
  
 I guess there's a sanitary law against it - sharing earbuds. For example in the US you can't try on bathing suits.  But in NYC you are free to spit in the streets and chew gum lol.  Monks from VE took 10 days total time both times that I ordered. I'm in the Northeast US.


----------



## AkashS04

I don't think that there is any low. I picked up FIIO EM3 from B&H and they had few earphones to test. I did not try any though except 1 or 2 as I was getting late and they were not earbud also.


----------



## AkashS04

So as per you, MX98S is the best and then TY and then only Monk+. Is it so?


----------



## vapman

akashs04 said:


> So as per you, MX98S is the best and then TY and then only Monk+. Is it so?


 

 not really...
 i really disliked the Fiio EM3 btw... thin cold bright harsh sound.


----------



## AkashS04

EM3 was not too bad but was not good either. I mean I did not see any point of using them over my Apple Earbuds. So here which one should be my 1st chice?


----------



## purplesun

AkashS04
If the apple nano has a sound signature that you don't like, you should change the player. Or try to eq the sound with the existing earbud first. IMO, using earbuds to correct the sound is a more difficult approach and may take you further away from your sound preference.


----------



## boblauer

At the risk of being brash, no can decide what sounds best for you or is a good value for you.
  
 For example my preferences are very different from Vapman, I bought one of his RX1's as he was not thrilled with it and I am. If waiting is an issue you can get the MP from veclan directly in @2 weeks, you can get the TY from Penon same time frame, you can get the SHE3800 from Fasttech also same time frame and you'll be out less than $20 total for all 3. The only place I know of for the Boarseman's is Ali and those would be more than the other 3 combined. My suggestion buy those 3 and see what you like and give the ones you don't to friends. If none are to your liking then spring for the others. I also like the Toneking/MusicMaker TP16 but it sounds like something between the MP and RX1 and it's $17 on Penon.


----------



## Ira Delphic

vapman said:


> akashs04 said:
> 
> 
> > Ok. So let me know if MX98S is good and better than Apple Earbuds. I will order them 1st. Also, any shop in NYC whee I can go and test number of earbuds and earphones. There were 2-3 dedicated shops in Singapore and few electronic shops which were having Earphnes to test along with other items also. But in those shops also, you can get at least 12-15 earbphones to test and in those dedicate music shops, almost all sample they have. I did not find even a single such shop in NY.
> ...


 
  
 What about the Seahf 32 ohms for $12. Ever tried it? It may be new. I mentioned it here.


----------



## ld100

akashs04 said:


> Ok. So let me know if MX98S is good and better than Apple Earbuds. I will order them 1st. Also, any shop in NYC whee I can go and test number of earbuds and earphones. There were 2-3 dedicated shops in Singapore and few electronic shops which were having Earphnes to test along with other items also. But in those shops also, you can get at least 12-15 earbphones to test and in those dedicate music shops, almost all sample they have. I did not find even a single such shop in NY.


 
  
  
 I think it is quite easy for any earbuds to be better than old Apple buds... I have not followed your discussion, but Monk+ for a fiver is ways better than Apple buds for sure...


----------



## tommo21

ira delphic said:


> What about the Seahf 32 ohms for $12. Ever tried it? It may be new. I mentioned it here.


 

 As what I've read from everyone who has gotten the Seahf 32ohm is that it's nothing special, I have it but haven't bothered to listen to it yet as I have many others to try out first. Don't think anyone has shared any remotely positive thoughts about this bud yet...but I may have missed it....


----------



## boblauer

tommo21 said:


> As what I've read from everyone who has gotten the Seahf 32ohm is that it's nothing special, I have it but haven't bothered to listen to it yet as I have many others to try out first. Don't think anyone has shared any remotely positive thoughts about this bud yet...but I may have missed it....


 
 I listened to one very briefly that belongs to a colleague and IMO sounds really similar to MP at twice the cost.


----------



## AkashS04

That I can confirm only once I listen to them. Let me order them and then see. Apple Earbuds are very warm and have punchy Bass. Especially when you have nano 1st Gen or some good Music Player. However, they are not sounding as good with Nano 7th Gen bcoz it does not have Wolfson Chip hence not good sound also.


----------



## AkashS04

I am trying to get Nano 1st Gen from Ebay. I am sure even $1000 Earphones will not sound as good with nano 7th gen as they will with 1st gen Nano.


----------



## boblauer

akashs04 said:


> That I can confirm only once I listen to them. Let me order them and then see. Apple Earbuds are very warm and have punchy Bass. Especially when you have nano 1st Gen or some good Music Player. However, they are not sounding as good with Nano 7th Gen bcoz it does not have Wolfson Chip hence not good sound also.


 
 And again to Purplesun's comment maybe you need to change your DAP and because the bud will only replicate a DAC chips sound so much. You may never find your ideal sound changing buds when chasing a DAC implementation. Good thing is it's less than $20 for the 3 low cost ones.


----------



## AkashS04

Old Apple Earbuds are surely not to be thrown out in trash. They are very good in my view and while I am hearing a lot about Monk+, I have some some doubt that they won't be able to beat Apple Earbuds. I found JVC FXT100 very good and better than Apple Earbuds but they were expensive so I did not exactly check if, even being in-ear type, were they having open vent and no vacuum issue or what. Another one was Valore 008 Model earbud (Local Singapore Brand). They were very good also but difficult to choose from them and Apple so I did not change.


----------



## AkashS04

I think there is no harm in trying Monk+ and MX98 also. I am assuming that they are haing tons of Bass and even millions of Warmth with good details. With this mindset only I am going to order them.


----------



## purplesun

AkashS04
Yeah, those early gen Wolfson has a nice punchy sound that is less digital sounding than newer DACs. I have kept a few Android phones with Wolfson DACs for precisely their sound. May be getting an older nano could be best for you.


----------



## vapman

ira delphic said:


> What about the Seahf 32 ohms for $12. Ever tried it? It may be new. I mentioned it here.




I owned it. Its like a razor blade! I had to eq all the highs out completely and it was still too bright for me to handle. Impressive detail for the price if you like that sound.


----------



## AkashS04

Yeah. I just had one doubt. Though, considering the small size, Nano 1st Gen is the best bet and I had that too. However, that is available at some more cost then 2nd Gen or iPod Classic. Now 2nd Gen has WM8975 Chip while 1st gen has WM8975G. I am not sure if they are both or not. Also, Classic has WM87588 Chip. And one Classic model has WM8740 Chip. Does anyone has any clue which is the best option form them? Which Chip is The Best in terms of sound quality?


----------



## purplesun

akashs04 said:


> Yeah. I just had one doubt. Though, considering the small size, Nano 1st Gen is the best bet and I had that too. However, that is available at some more cost then 2nd Gen or iPod Classic. Now 2nd Gen has WM8975 Chip while 1st gen has WM8975G. I am not sure if they are both or not. Also, Classic has WM87588 Chip. And one Classic model has WM8740 Chip. Does anyone has any clue which is the best option form them? Which Chip is The Best in terms of sound quality?



Probably not the best place to be asking about DACs in earbud forums, but I think while they have the same signature, the amping as well as the power output affects the sound too. I am not an apple user myself but am sure there should be tons of comparisons of nano player sound on the Internet. Just keep it within the early Wolfson family as I think that is your preferred sound.


----------



## vapman

I would advise not to worry too much about it, and if you want to know, the ipod threads are better suited to answer your wolfson dac question.


----------



## purplesun

AkashS04
One more thing, once you are sorted with an older nano sound, you must try out some of the cheap (or expensive) but impressive earbuds these fellows talk about. I'm sure you ears will explode with joy. Maybe I exaggerate a little bit


----------



## ozkan

akashs04 said:


> I think there is no harm in trying Monk+ and MX98 also. I am assuming that they are haing tons of Bass and even millions of Warmth with good details. With this mindset only I am going to order them.




Exactly! Monk+ is far better than the Apple earbuds.


----------



## dearyon

vapman said:


> not really...
> i really disliked the *Fiio EM3* btw... *thin cold bright harsh sound*.


 
 I'm surprised, as far as I remember the Fiio EM3 was warm, thick sounding mids, full of mid bass. But, yeah, YMMV.


----------



## Townyj

Family portrait


----------



## dearyon

townyj said:


> Family portrait


 
 how is TP16 compared with Red De'mun or Tomahawk?


----------



## boblauer

@Townyj
  
 and their brothers from another mother


----------



## Townyj

dearyon said:


> how is TP16 compared with Red De'mun or Tomahawk?


 
 The TP16 sounds warmish through the mid range, hits well on the low end and has fairly good sparkle. Its suits most genres in my book, consumer friendly sound. I enjoy it quite a lot, its kinda of like a baby Tomahawk with a better fit  Would rate the Red Demun on a slightly higher level, its more well rounded and clear sounding. Bass is tight, clear highs and good midrange etc.
  
 By the way ive never been real good with explaining the sound of earbuds/headphones. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
 Quote:


boblauer said:


> @Townyj
> 
> and their brothers from another mother


 
  
 I forgot to put my RX-1 in the portrait  Nice buds! Been awhile since ive spent time with my RX-1 so will have to go back for a listen soon.


----------



## dearyon

townyj said:


> The TP16 sounds warm through the mid range, hits well on the low end and has fairly good sparkle. Its suits most genres in my book, consumer friendly sound. I enjoy it quite a lot, its kinda of like a baby Tomahawk with a better fit  Would rate the Red Demun on a slightly higher level, its more well rounded and clear sounding. Bass is tight, clear highs and good midrange etc.


 
 Actually I really miss my Tomahawk but have no money to spend on it again. If TP16 is baby Tomahawk it will be my next solid purchase then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ​


----------



## purplesun

Shhhh! Grandpa is trying to sleep!


----------



## dearyon

purplesun said:


> Shhhh! Grandpa is trying to sleep!


 
 May I ask what earbuds is that in the middle? Qian25?


----------



## purplesun

Sennheiser MX500


----------



## RedDemonZ

I want to buy spacious and airy earbud
My choices is TY Hi-Z 150ohm and Tomahawk
Can give me suggestion what should i buy?


----------



## ultimdan

Hey guys I'm hesitating. I want to buy some earbuds. TP16 + mx98s or just tomahawk? I have a fiio e17k and a go vibe petite amp for amplification. As for sound signature, I'm pretty ambivalent. I love my momentum and also my hd25 which are really different. I also have a woo audio 3, but I don't think that matters for such low impedance.

Regards,

Dan


----------



## AkashS04

I hope so. If these earbuds are good and better than Apple Earbuds, then I am sure that the combination of Nano 1st Gen + Monk+ or MX98S will be something out of this world.


----------



## Willber

akashs04 said:


> I hope so. If these earbuds are good and better than Apple Earbuds, then I am sure that the combination of Nano 1st Gen + Monk+ or MX98S will be something out of this world.


 

 Akash, if you use the 'Quote' button we will be able to see which post you are replying to.


----------



## ld100

ultimdan said:


> Hey guys I'm hesitating. I want to buy some earbuds. TP16 + mx98s or just tomahawk? I have a fiio e17k and a go vibe petite amp for amplification. As for sound signature, I'm pretty ambivalent. I love my momentum and also my hd25 which are really different. I also have a woo audio 3, but I don't think that matters for such low impedance.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Dan


 
  
 I am not too happy with the Tomahawk. I would not advise getting it as your main earbud. I almost sold it to another member, but then I did not. I do use it and enjoy it sometimes, but would not recommend buying it...


----------



## purplesun

willber said:


> Akash, if you use the 'Quote' button we will be able to see which post you are replying to.


 
 I think it was to me, I think.
  
@Akash
 I think you probably have a sense that people here do not think too highly about Apple Earpod. I don't, as I have never used. But, even after testing a couple of earbuds here with 1st gen Nano, and you still like the Earpod - I really would like to hear your comments. Just don't press the issue too hard (ie: Earpods are the best!) as people can get quite possessive in here. IMHO, it will be good to have another data point that's counter to the general opinion.


----------



## AkashS04

Hi Purplesun,
  
 I was talking about Old Apple Earbuds and not Earpod. Earpod are not comfortable. Are you using 1st Gen Nano?


----------



## kennyk64

townyj said:


> Family portrait


 
  
 Hi *Townyj,*
  
 Do you manage to get a good fit with Red Demun?
  
 I find the cable too stiff and difficult to get the buds to face each other.


----------



## Townyj

kennyk64 said:


> Hi *Townyj,*
> 
> Do you manage to get a good fit with Red Demun?
> 
> I find the cable too stiff and difficult to get the buds to face each other.


 

 If i am sitting/laying down listening i dont find the cable to bad at all. The earbuds themselves fit me better then my RX-1 and old Tomahawk. Would definitely agree the cable is quite unwieldly and awkward to walk around with, breaks the seal and i need to keep adjusting them. Ive got some Hiegi foams incomming, hopefully the fit will tighten just a wee bit. Might try the double foam trick and see how they go also.


----------



## purplesun

akashs04 said:


> Hi Purplesun,
> 
> I was talking about Old Apple Earbuds and not Earpod. Earpod are not comfortable. Are you using 1st Gen Nano?


 

 Had the 2nd gen for a short while for running. But gave up on it as the transferring of files from PC was too tedious. What little I remembered about it was, it had a very clean sound but less oomph than my LG 2x & Galaxy S1 (Wolfson DACs). I can't remember which earbud or IEM I was using though.


----------



## ultimdan

ld100 said:


> I am not too happy with the Tomahawk. I would not advise getting it as your main earbud. I almost sold it to another member, but then I did not. I do use it and enjoy it sometimes, but would not recommend buying it...




OK thanks! I'll order the tp16 and the m98s then!


----------



## AkashS04

Nano 2nd Gen has Wolfson DAC too. Which version of DAC is used in Galaxy S1 or LG 2x? Any idea?


----------



## AkashS04

Looks like Wolfson WM8994


----------



## purplesun

akashs04 said:


> Nano 2nd Gen has Wolfson DAC too. Which version of DAC is used in Galaxy S1 or LG 2x? Any idea?


 
 Sorry, I don't play much with them these days. They were around late 2010 manufacture, you should be able to google for them. Early Wolfsons may have same sound signature, but don't get too hung up on them, as amp quality & power output is still quite important. I am afraid I can't really help you much as I don't use Apple stuff, and 1st gen Wolfson stuff is too long ago for me (though it was quite exciting at the time on XDA). You should try to look for help in the DAC forum or Apple forum (if there's one) in head-fi.


----------



## springbay

For anyone considering the Tomahawks or the TP16, forget about ever listening to
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuGmbKgVBUY
 unless you enjoy the heavily distorted sound. Hyuna originally has that cute girlish voice, but the Tomahawks and TP16s make her sound like a Disney chipmunk.
  
 Meanwhile, the cables on my LD-3.0 320 are turning emerald green, due to my constant use. I wish I could say the same about my Cygnus.


----------



## kennyk64

townyj said:


> If i am sitting/laying down listening i dont find the cable to bad at all. The earbuds themselves fit me better then my RX-1 and old Tomahawk. Would definitely agree the cable is quite unwieldly and awkward to walk around with, breaks the seal and i need to keep adjusting them. Ive got some Hiegi foams incomming, hopefully the fit will tighten just a wee bit. Might try the double foam trick and see how they go also.


 
  
 Yes sitting down still is fine for me, turning my head left and right is the problem.
  
 You know what, I just remove the sleeve. Now I'm happy


----------



## mrxarai

I've been creeping on this thread for a while, and for my first post ever, I just want to say thanks for the constant contribution everyone puts in daily. Earbuds are awesome!


----------



## purplesun

mrxarai said:


> I've been creeping on this thread for a while, and for my first post ever, I just want to say thanks for the constant contribution everyone puts in daily. Earbuds are awesome!


 
 Yeah, so far we are down to $3.14 cents for an awesome earbud (SHE3800)
 I have one coming at $2.81 that I have middling hopes to beat that.
 We are just cheapskates with good hearing!

  
  
 (runs away......)


----------



## mrxarai

purplesun said:


> Yeah, so far we are down to $3.14 cents for an awesome earbud (SHE3800)
> I have one coming at $2.81 that I have middling hopes to beat that.
> We are just cheapskates with good hearing!
> 
> ...


 
 $2.81?!?!?! 
  
 That's close to the price of a one way metro ticket for me! What a time to be enjoying earbuds.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Update with Earbud Thailand:

#1- I will have the new White Hawk Earbud (WHE) in a few weeks.

#2 - They are still working on an English version of the website that they hope to have up soon.

In the meantime, the Thailand version is here: http://www.earbudthailand.com/

--


----------



## mrxarai

I almost forgot to mention, here is my current line up of earbuds at the moment:
  
 Blox BE7
 Zen 2
 Sennheiser MX985
 Seahf 320 v1
 Shozy Cygnus
 Tomahawk
 Red Demun
 BOE
 Monk Candy
 TY- Hi Z 32
 Monk Plus
  
 Pleased to be here!


----------



## music4mhell

mrxarai said:


> I almost forgot to mention, here is my current line up of earbuds at the moment:
> 
> Blox BE7
> Zen 2
> ...


 
 Rank top 3 earbuds according to your ears


----------



## mrxarai

music4mhell said:


> Rank top 3 earbuds according to your ears


 
 Hmm...My top 3 i've been listening to for the past month are:
  
 1. Seahf 320 v1 (Zen 1 Look-alike) - Incredible for jazz. Nothing quite like it.
  
 2. Blox BE7 - Pretty much my do-it-all earbud with an immersive sound stage that floors me every listen. Vocals also just sound so creepily real.
  
 3. Tomahawk - The workhorse. When i'm out and about, this is the one I take with me. Although I must admit, I disliked it at first, but now I just can't go a day without it. I use it with the VE thin foams.
  
 The Zen 2 and Cygnus are right around corner.  I think these two should be a staple in every earbud collection. On a side note, I can't wait for the Cygnus BK and the Nirvana. On another side note, I saw the Cygnus BK for sale on Aliexpress from a new seller (?) for close to $450. Granted, everything this store is selling is overpriced in my opinion. 
  
 I rarely listen to the mx985 now days. Although, this is the earbud that started it all for me, so I have to pay my respects to it. 
  
 The Red Demun rarely ever see the light of day. It's a shame because it sounds phenomenal, but the stiff cable really impacts the overall listening experience for me.


----------



## vapman

A suggestion for all who are put off by the Red Demun's stiff cable: when I a m not using it I have it curled up into a bunch of knots (not tight knots, that would damage the cable, just enough to keep the wiring bent) I find keeping it wrapped up like this when not using it lets it be far more flexible when it's being worn. Mine isn't as soft as the Edimun V3 cable still, but it's fairly close, abolutely way better than it used to be.


----------



## music4mhell

mrxarai said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Rank top 3 earbuds according to your ears
> ...


 
 Thanks buddy, i have Seahf 400 ohms, i like that too.
 I dont use cygnus at all, but i love my Zen


----------



## mrxarai

vapman said:


> A suggestion for all who are put off by the Red Demun's stiff cable: when I a m not using it I have it curled up into a bunch of knots (not tight knots, that would damage the cable, just enough to keep the wiring bent) I find keeping it wrapped up like this when not using it lets it be far more flexible when it's being worn. Mine isn't as soft as the Edimun V3 cable still, but it's fairly close, abolutely way better than it used to be.


 
 I almost gave up on it after doing the motions of a wave with it during the honeymoon phase, so thank you for the tip!
  
 I've been considering the Edimun, so I'm delighted to hear that it has a softer cable, but i'm assuming some degree of stiffness is still present?


----------



## fairx

basketballtaco said:


> Wow I just received the Tomahawk yesterday and I've not listened to music like this in a long time. I definitely understand what you mean when you describe the way these immerse you in the music. Im loving the sweet mids and the wide soundstage the most.




Glad you like em. Another tomahawk user. 

Last night after hours and hours with she3800 I decide to get my sanity back and listen to tomahawk again. What a lively sound it reproduce. However my cable gotten too stiff nowadays. 

Now I'm curious about TP16. 

To @AkashS04, I still own SGS with Wolfson chip inside. And my daily phone is iPhone 5 (cirrus chip). Kinda related to your issue with old iPod with Wolfson and new iPod with cirrus.

While I still dig my Wolfson sound, there are earbud that really match well with cirrus and not with Wolfson. I guess the difference in amping plays it role too. 

My judge: 

Wolfson with iPod earbud= OK sound bit not much balance. 
Wolfson with RX-1= so so not much Mid bass but the mids is very good 

Cirrus with iPod earbud = just ok still not much balance.
Cirrus with RX-1= superb! although the mid bass still not much but sub bass is thumping! ( I use your own words)$

What I'm saying is. Just try loads different earbud. They're not that expensive. You might found surprises in the corner


----------



## vapman

mrxarai said:


> I almost gave up on it after doing the motions of a wave with it during the honeymoon phase, so thank you for the tip!
> 
> I've been considering the Edimun, so I'm delighted to hear that it has a softer cable, but i'm assuming some degree of stiffness is still present?


 
  
 Basically none at all... it has a little memory but almost no stiffness really.
  
 BTW, i'm looking on Aliexpress and finding all the 16mm earbud shells i can find don't come with front covers and say they also work for 15.4mm drivers... has anyone tried reshelling a Sony 16mm DD unit? even if not, can i use a 15.4mm front piece with a 16mm sony driver?


----------



## ozkan

vapman said:


> Basically none at all... it has a little memory but almost no stiffness really.
> 
> BTW, i'm looking on Aliexpress and finding all the 16mm earbud shells i can find don't come with front covers and say they also work for 15.4mm drivers... has anyone tried reshelling a Sony 16mm DD unit? even if not, can i use a 15.4mm front piece with a 16mm sony driver?




Will you reshell a Sony earbud buddy? Which model is it? I don't think that 15.4mm front piece will fit to 16mm driver since the driver is bigger.


----------



## vapman

ozkan said:


> Will you reshell a Sony earbud buddy? Which model is it? I don't think that 15.4mm front piece will fit to 16mm driver since the driver is bigger.


 

 The Aliexpress store said a mx500 cover would fit.... i just can't find it on their store 
 Yeah, a 16mm Sony bud from eBay, the shell looks pretty old and gross, lol


----------



## ozkan

vapman said:


> The Aliexpress store said a mx500 cover would fit.... i just can't find it on their store
> Yeah, a 16mm Sony bud from eBay, the shell looks pretty old and gross, lol




Without front covers. Looks like the Monks can be more comfortable with these shells.


----------



## vapman

ozkan said:


> Without front covers. Looks like the Monks can be more comfortable with these shells.


 
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/DIY-earphone-shell/923848_260137872.html
  
 there's more 15.4mm ones with front covers here, would be cool to put in a monk in one


----------



## ozkan

Just ordered.


----------



## jrazmar

mrxarai said:


> I almost forgot to mention, here is my current line up of earbuds at the moment:
> 
> Blox BE7
> Zen 2
> ...


 
  
 Welcome! So which one sounds the best for you and your preference? I almost got the same lineup except for the Senns and TY.
  
 ***edited: Sorry double post by other members. Please ignore. I have read your reply here.


----------



## vapman

No review of ty 650, huh?


----------



## fairx

mrxarai said:


> Hmm...My top 3 i've been listening to for the past month are:
> 
> 1. Seahf 320 v1 (Zen 1 Look-alike) - Incredible for jazz. Nothing quite like it.
> 
> ...


 
 I wonder if the Seahf V1 that you have is the seahf from taobao?


----------



## mrxarai

jrazmar said:


> Welcome! So which one sounds the best for you and your preference? I almost got the same lineup except for the Senns and TY.


 
 Thank you so much! It's great to be here.
  
 We do have a similar line up, cool! Honestly.....the BE7. If they were to break on me, I would be devastated. I really enjoy the Seahf 320 v1 too. 
  
 If you don't mind me asking, how do you like the OK1 compared to the BE7 or even the Shozy?


----------



## mrxarai

fairx said:


> I wonder if the Seahf V1 that you have is the seahf from taobao?


 
 It is! I didn't buy it from taobao, but it's the model otherwise known here as Seahf 320 v1 Smart? It's the Zen 1 lookalike.


----------



## mrxarai

My claustrophobic assortment of earbuds!


----------



## vapman

I guess I'll order TY 650, seem a few others have, I read the Baidu Tieba translated review and it seems it might be promising!
  
@mrxarai
 I am planning on recabling my Blox BE5, it's easily one of my favorites, but the stock cable is such junk! is your BE7 stock?
  
 (edit: haha! you posted the photo while i was posting this... i can see it's stock!)
 (edit 2: try wrapping up your red demun like a pretzel...)


----------



## fairx

mrxarai said:


> It is! I didn't buy it from taobao, but it's the model otherwise known here as Seahf 320 v1 Smart? It's the Zen 1 lookalike.


 
 care to share where you got the smart 1? I wanted to order the smart 1 for so long but don't have and amp. now that I got one it seems in taobao only shows 2 version with black shell and black cable. no more white shell smart 1. I can't read chinese, only some part of it translated.
  
 https://world.taobao.com/item/525608265905.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-2705102940.111.0BTOKn


----------



## purplesun

@vapman
 These came the other day (Less than $7 for 3 pairs).
 Let me know if you need any measurements.
 I have a lousy vernier but should be accurate down to 0.2mm.


----------



## mrxarai

vapman said:


> I guess I'll order TY 650, seem a few others have, I read the Baidu Tieba translated review and it seems it might be promising!
> 
> @mrxarai
> I am planning on recabling my Blox BE5, it's easily one of my favorites, but the stock cable is such junk! is your BE7 stock?
> ...


 
 The timing haha! I agree, the cable is not the best. If it had the monk plus cable....that would be pretty awesome! Just a low key looking earbud with a lot of love.
  
 I'll give the pretzel wrap a shot. I never thought I would be breaking in a cable! haha


----------



## vapman

I am going to get a finished cable when I buy the 16mm earbud shells, and hopefully give the Blox a nice cable. At least Monk Plus quality would be fine I agree....


----------



## mrxarai

fairx said:


> care to share where you got the smart 1? I wanted to order the smart 1 for so long but don't have and amp. now that I got one it seems in taobao only shows 2 version with black shell and black cable. no more white shell smart 1. I can't read chinese, only some part of it translated.
> 
> https://world.taobao.com/item/525608265905.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-2705102940.111.0BTOKn


 
 Unfortunately, I got it off of Ebay from someone in the states. 
  
 Judging from what i've read in the thread a while ago, the TY Hi-Z 320 HM or M? is the same exact earphone as the Seahf 320 v1. In this particular instance, just the branding is different. The good news is, the TY version is available on Aliexpress. Just have to find the store selling five different versions of the TY and not four. I'm pretty tempted to order it as well.


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> I guess I'll order TY 650, seem a few others have, I read the Baidu Tieba translated review and it seems it might be promising!


 
 Looking at the new pictures on the first page, ClieOS will soon rank TY 650, K's and Edimun. Very interesting!


----------



## vapman

I got impatient and ordered it from PENON. First time ordering from penon. Will be sure to update when it gets in!

The review from Baidu makes it seems like it's a bug guy product... they keep mentioning "insect man" and "bug man" !!


----------



## JASru

Question  to Tomahawk owners. 
 Which foams do you use?

 I tried stock donut foams, but sometimes I got uncomfortable from screech-like( or chirp-like) sounds it made on guitar slides and rarely some vocals ( like moby - natural blues - 6-7sec.), so I changed to full thick foams. The peak is still hearable but not so harsh.
  
 Anyone got this or it is my DAP/ears issues?)


----------



## Danneq

jasru said:


> Question  to Tomahawk owners.
> What foams do you use?
> 
> I tried stock donut foams, but sometimes I got uncomfortable from screech-like( or chirp-like) sounds it made on guitar slides and rarely some vocals ( like moby - natural blues - 6-7sec.), so I changed to full thick foams. The peak is still hearable but not so harsh.
> ...


 

 I also use full thick foams and like you I found donuts to make the highs too sharp. With full foams Tomahawk sounds great to my ears. (I mainly listen to rock and metal)


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> I got impatient and ordered it from PENON. First time ordering from penon. Will be sure to update when it gets in!
> 
> The review from Baidu makes it seems like it's a bug guy product... they keep mentioning "insect man" and "bug man" !!


 
 Aways remember,
  
 Hi-z Earbuds = BugGuys hahahaha.


----------



## tommasoff

tommasoff said:


> Hello guys, after listening a pair of monk plus with my fiio x5 i definitely fell into the earbuds world...
> 
> in several pages of this thread someone hinted about this buds https://world.taobao.com/item/37119460429.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a1z09.2.0.0.W6AQDw&_u=p2i926dj9fa1 .
> 
> ...


 
 noone? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ps: is my x5 able to run 150/300 ohm buds?


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> I got impatient and ordered it from PENON. First time ordering from penon. Will be sure to update when it gets in!
> 
> The review from Baidu makes it seems like it's a bug guy product... they keep mentioning "insect man" and "bug man" !!


 
 Penon is a very good seller, although i bought the TY650 from other seller as i got more discount than penon


----------



## AkashS04

Ok. I guess Wolfson Sound Chips are the best and even more expensive chips of like $500 and $800 price can hardly match the sound quality of Wolfson. I still wonder how this company was sold to Cirrus Logic at $500 millions and Beats got $2b from Apple.


----------



## luedriver

just wanted to share my 2 cents update on the rx1
  
 yesterday I watched a blu-ray movie on my ps3, (the hobbit 2), and wanted to use some headphones, (at this point I usually go for something like t-music or philips sh3800 [for bass], but since this (the movie) was kinda "special" I wanted something "special"
  
 I thought of the rx1's, for the classical score of the movie, I hesitated, but then decided to use thick donut foams and connect it to an improvised amp
  
 which was something like ps3 (analog) to amp to rx1 (with 75ohm adapter since the amp gets a little bit loud with low impedance headphones)
  
 well, it didn't disappoint, very cinematic sound, everything sounded very clear and even the voice of smaug sounded deep and resonating
  
I would recommend the rx1 for movies like this


----------



## ClieOS

tommasoff said:


> noone?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 X5 should be fine driving most high impedance earbuds.
  


akashs04 said:


> Ok. I guess Wolfson Sound Chips are the best and even more expensive chips of like $500 and $800 price can hardly match the sound quality of Wolfson. I still wonder how this company was sold to Cirrus Logic at $500 millions and Beats got $2b from Apple.


 
  
 While I do like Wolfson, I won't go as far as to say they are the best.


----------



## tommasoff




----------



## Saoshyant

tommasoff said:


> noone?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  My Fiio X5 has no issue driving a 320 ohm earbud, so you'll be fine.  Honestly, I even like the sound of the 320 SeaHF on Encore mDSD which if I remember doesn't have much power output.  Some people insist you need a lot of power for high ohm phones, but its all a matter of taste.  While you may not get the most out of it, that doesn't mean it won't be enjoyable.  I've read people arguing that anything less than something like a Chord Hugo is a waste of a phone, but I can't agree with that.


----------



## tommasoff

saoshyant said:


> My Fiio X5 has no issue driving a 320 ohm earbud, so you'll be fine.  Honestly, I even like the sound of the 320 SeaHF on Encore mDSD which if I remember doesn't have much power output.  Some people insist you need a lot of power for high ohm phones, but its all a matter of taste.  While you may not get the most out of it, that doesn't mean it won't be enjoyable.  I've read people arguing that anything less than something like a Chord Hugo is a waste of a phone, but I can't agree with that.


 
 Thanks mate, 
 it is not just about volume, but mostly the way the cans are adequately pushed.
  
 while i have no trouble running my monk plus (64ohm), no way to proper listening my akg701 even with the same impedance and also a higher sensitivity (i have a docet amp for them). 
  
 I was planning to get a pair of high impedance buds, but i was scared of getting a poor and disappointing experience... so i asked


----------



## Saoshyant

I understand, I just find I'm not as picky as most in this respect. To me, adequate is subjective in this hobby.


----------



## Townyj

So i just bought a pair of Edimun V3 Gold... whew! More buds i dont need haha.


----------



## Saoshyant

Anyone want me to be a guinea pig and order VSonic VSD3P?


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> Anyone want me to be a guinea pig and order VSonic VSD3P?




I do because i bought some VSonic IEMs off clieos' recommendation probably 6 years ago and still have them but they're lost in my apartment for about 2 years... They were some of my favorites for a long time.


----------



## magitka27

saoshyant said:


> My Fiio X5 has no issue driving a 320 ohm earbud, so you'll be fine.  Honestly, I even like the sound of the 320 SeaHF on Encore mDSD which if I remember doesn't have much power output.  Some people insist you need a lot of power for high ohm phones, but its all a matter of taste.  While you may not get the most out of it, that doesn't mean it won't be enjoyable.  I've read people arguing that anything less than something like a Chord Hugo is a waste of a phone, but I can't agree with that.




Do you think fiio q1 can handle seahf ld3 320ohm like ur x5 mate?


----------



## Saoshyant

magitka27 said:


> Do you think fiio q1 can handle seahf ld3 320ohm like ur x5 mate?




Power-wise, the Q1 is not too much behind the X5. I tried the 320 on weaker amps like the Fiio E6 & Brainwavz AP001 (both around $30 when purchased), and while the E6 made the 320 sound decent, the AP001 really complimented the 320, surprisingly so. I imagine the Q1 will be more than sufficient, just not optimal.


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman said:


> I do because i bought some VSonic IEMs off clieos' recommendation probably 6 years ago and still have them but they're lost in my apartment for about 2 years... They were some of my favorites for a long time.




Ordered from Penon


----------



## magitka27

saoshyant said:


> Power-wise, the Q1 is not too much behind the X5. I tried the 320 on weaker amps like the Fiio E6 & Brainwavz AP001 (both around $30 when purchased), and while the E6 made the 320 sound decent, the AP001 really complimented the 320, surprisingly so. I imagine the Q1 will be more than sufficient, just not optimal.




So i have to move on into somthing more powerful amp like fiio e12 / e12a before buying that monster 

Recently i tried the combo foam on the ld3.0 150ohm seahf (donut under the full foam)

Its super fun but somehow i feel it sounds like... veiled XD


----------



## vapman

I doubt you would even use close to the full power of the e12, unless you had everything reduced by 20dB or something.


----------



## Saoshyant

magitka27 said:


> So i have to move on into somthing more powerful amp like fiio e12 / e12a before buying that monster
> 
> Recently i tried the combo foam on the ld3.0 150ohm seahf (donut under the full foam)
> 
> Its super fun but somehow i feel it sounds like... veiled XD




X5 to E12, the 320 sounds really good. I prefer it with bass boost on, which gives some seriously respectable bass for an earbud. The closest analogy I can think of is in full sized headphones, closed headphones are typically the bass winners, but some open headphones like the Hifiman HE400 just sound surprisingly good. The earbud won't be that good of course, but with my experience with earbuds so far, the bass on this one is stellar for what an earbud can do.


----------



## Ira Delphic

saoshyant said:


> Anyone want me to be a guinea pig and order VSonic VSD3P?


 
  
 How about the Vsonic UU2? $4 less and has the generic (classic?) earbud shell. There are a bunch of buds on that site that we don't know about. 
  
Maybe we should just source a really good driver in bulk, shells, etc and DIY it ourselves? It doesn't appear to be rocket science.


----------



## tintheman

Sorry I did ask this question from other forum but no one answer since looking for solution on getting clip for thicker cable...TY Hi-Z 320 ohm etc...
  
 "Hi everyone, has anyone  seen any shirt clip similar to the one from Pinnacle P1 that will fit for thicker cable? 
  
http://www.meeaudio.com/ShirtClip-P1-MEE/   "


----------



## golov17

ira delphic said:


> How about the Vsonic [COLOR=333745]UU2? $4 less and has the generic (classic?) earbud shell. There are a bunch of buds on that site that we don't know about. [/COLOR]
> 
> [COLOR=333745]Maybe we should just source a really good driver in bulk, shells, etc and DIY it ourselves? It doesn't appear to be rocket science. [/COLOR]


uu2 not very good (only very nice cable) IMHO


----------



## Fabi

Here's my take on TY HP-32 vs HP-32 2.0 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Both with thin foams, mid-gain on modded DX90
 I have to increase volume a few steps on 2.0 than with v1.
  
 Here we go.
  
  
 2.0: better width, more airy; better bass texture, depth and impact; slightly more refined and extended treble but still smooth, not sibilant; midrange slightly less forward, lower midrange lacks body and sounds thin.
 v1: better mids, especially on lower midrange, slightly narrower soundstage but very detailed on the entire midrange, bass lacks impact.
  
 This was with thin foams. I noticed that 2.0 lacks body on lower midrange, it doesn't make me groove like with v1...
 So what did I do?  I took thick foams and cut 4 small holes on the center of the foam ... et voilà! Mids have now the body I like on lower midrange and still have the airiness on higher midrange/treble, same as v1. Thank God!
  
  
 Overall 2.0 is better technically imho and has improved for the better. 
 2.0 with its L-plug is perfect for me for on-the-go use.




  
  







  
 --------------------------
  
 Now le'ts be serious for a sec, my impressions on HP-400s
  
 First, if you don't have an amp, you'd better go home 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 It's possible to plug it into your smartphone or your dap, it will have sound out of it but you will be quite disappointed.
 I'd say it sounds very very far from its best.
  
 My personal setup to make it sound at a very good level of satisfaction:
 Modded DX90 LO at max volume > VE RunAbout Plus on 18V PS, low gain, 11 o'clock on volume knob > HP-400s with thin foams (my fav 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  
 In fact, I set my current portable gear at its maximum lol. It's the best I can do.
 RA Plus can handle 18V input at max. I think that more power would be better but I don't have a more powerful amp for now.
 With my SMPS, I switched to lower voltages, it didn't sound good enough 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, choose any of the following options:
 narrow soundstage, warm and boomy bass, recessed mids, roll-off treble, not good extensions. OMG
  
 But apart from that, in the only case above, it sounds very very good for my taste 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 It's like you take HP-32 but everything is so much cleaner and better.
  
 Bass is deep, impactful, very well controlled, well textured and doesn't bleed noticeably on midrange.
 Midrange is very detailed and very well extended, gorgeous. I noticed midrange has a hint of warmth and smoothness, by example female vocals won't be piercing your ears but still have good clarity.
 Higher frequencies are rather smooth, never sibilant, a no-fatiguing sound but still have good extension and airiness, It could be clearer but it's part of its sound sig, slightly warm and balanced.
 Soundstage is not particularly very wide but it feels spacious enough to be IN the music.
  
 Please note that I'm not a basshead nor a treblehead but look for a slightly warm and balanced sound earbud, treble is not my top priority althrough it has to sound good.
 HP-400s has almost all I need, maybe an inch less warm with even better extended treble would be perfect for me but I can live with this.
 I wish I had a more powerful amp to try it with. Ftm it's not that possible.. I will let it burn-in some more time to see if something happens.
 Maybe HP-650 has it all? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Any impressions on HP-400s from other mates?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  
 Btw, anyone has a Corda Quickstep for sale in the upcoming months for a good price??  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (I like 9V single battery portable amps with DC input) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Cheers brothers and sisters


----------



## ClieOS

magitka27 said:


> So i have to move on into somthing more powerful amp like fiio e12 / e12a before buying that monster
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Just in case any of you missed the news, E12 / E12A will be phased out soon and replaced by A5 - which is basically combining the SQ of E12A with the output power of regular E12. Should hit the shelves by end of Oct.


----------



## AkashS04

Monk+ is good because it is just $5 so even an average buds will look/sound good at that price or it is actually good?


----------



## Saoshyant

clieos said:


> Just in case any of you missed the news, E12 / E12A will be phased out soon and replaced by A5 - which is basically combining the SQ of E12A with the output power of regular E12. Should hit the shelves by end of Oct.




Huh, thank you for that info. Curious if it surpasses Cayin C5.


----------



## vapman

I'm also very curious how it ends up versus the e12 and c5.
  
 I have to say after spending time with all the buds I've had on the burn machine for over a week nonstop, the TY Hi-Z 32 2.0 is the most impressive of all of them. Gotta admit I prefer it to the MX98s. the MX98s is good but it just makes me want to listen to my Cygnus :/ and the Candy Monk has got like no headtime since getting it, haha!


----------



## boblauer

akashs04 said:


> Monk+ is good because it is just $5 so even an average buds will look/sound good at that price or it is actually good?


 
 IMO good here's a quick listening I did same track 3 buds back to back just now(slow day so far at work) 
  
 Track is Akio Sasajima Jazz guitarist  Hard Days Night 48 K 24 bit FLAC file no EQ
  
 MP =>Piano - good presence, clear notes and resonance of stings
           Drums - hear brush strokes on snare, toms and cymbals
           Guitar - clear attack & definition of notes, up front in sound stage
           Bass - sounds subordinate to rest of instruments in presence and sound stage, feel this is related to track
 TP16 =>Piano - stringer sustain in notes, more up front presence and placement in sound stage
              Drums - Basically almost identical to characteristics I hear from MP 
              Bass - again slightly clearer presence and position, same volume as MP, reinforces belief it is track related
              Guitar - bit laid back further in presence and sound stage location from MP but oh so close
 RX1 => Piano - May more emphasis than the others, more sustain in notes
             Guitar - Very similar to others but better single line note definition, can actually pick out the striking of strings                 but I do play a bit 
             Bass - Way less in volume and presence, sound stage is almost background like
             Drums - Cymbals, hats and and snare very prominent, not much volume in terms of toms or bass drums, almost             strained to hear those 2 drums.
  
 So my subjective analysis is they are very very close with subtle nuances or emphasis in their signature.
 MP is good across many genres as is TP16 with it being ever so slightly brighter, RX1 is good for mid range to treble based music, since this track has no vocals I would include those in it;s sound signature.
 IMO depends on what you like in terms of music and sound signature. I carry these 3 daily but honestly could get by with just 2 either MP/TP16 and the RX1. When only 1 can be brought I'd go with MP simply because it works across almost all music. I like the TP16 better for really hard rock/metal but I like that searing scorching guitar sound. and things like Diana Krall, Fleetwood Mac with female centric vocals or pop RX1.
 Isolation goes to TP16 with MP close second and RX1 being very fit dependent and I constantly need to adjust it.All using MP thin foams.
 Value and this is very subjective to every one, cannot beat the MP for $5, it's one third to one quarter the cost of the other two but all of them are excellent values being all under $20. I am value/price conscious with buds but may take the plunge and get either a Ting to Tomahawk to see what another step up the food chain provides.If so will add to this same track.


----------



## purplesun

@boblauer
Thanks for the write up. Am going towards rx-1(just ordered) from monk plus. To my ears, though I find it overly warm, MP has a great cosy bar staging which should be great with jazz performances. Though, again to my ears, I find plucked/striked strings a little slow in their attack. So instead of a open baby grand in a jazz bar, I hear an old closed upright. And acoustic guitars sound a bit veiled to me. Is that the kind of sounds you are hearing? With the accolades MP is receiving, I am beginning to think my Fiio E10k may not be a good match with MP's sound signature.


----------



## vapman

Balanced Asura 2.0 with bonus original Monks

Featuring at last the VE zip up denim case! 




I still swear these are the closest to vintage Sony E888 you can currently buy....


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> Balanced Asura 2.0 with bonus original Monks
> 
> Featuring at last the VE zip up denim case!
> 
> I still swear these are the closest to vintage Sony E888 you can currently buy....


 
  
 Damn you vapman!
 This will definitely get me thrown out of the sub-$10 earbud club.
 Must resist quoting Borg mantra from Star Trek series.
  
 Now go burn that sucker!


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> Damn you vapman!
> This will definitely get me thrown out of the sub-$10 earbud club.
> Must resist quoting Borg mantra from Star Trek series.
> 
> Now go burn that sucker!


 

 I think between you, me, Danneq and maybe a couple other guys (maybe not necessary) in this thread alone we could write a very thorough Star Trek-pedia from scratch. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 To be honest I almost bought a couple SHE3800's nearly a dozen times and kept closing the tab... the TY 32 is the first sub $10 earbud to grab my attention in a long time but i'm too hooked on the more refined buds now! I fear I am being too snobbish to use my budget earbuds because I have so many nicer ones around 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Note you'll have to get a 2.5mm TRRS to 3.5mm TRS cable ($5) if you wanna use the balanced one with normal gear! I had one already so it wasn't a problem.
  
 Burning in nice and loud with some Sega Saturn OST's!


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> I think between you, me, Danneq and maybe a couple other guys (maybe not necessary) in this thread alone we could write a very thorough Star Trek-pedia from scratch.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I dare you to say that on a proper Star Trek Forum, and don't have your PC/Mac infested with multiplying Tribbles the next day. Would be like us telling name-brand, multi-BA diehards what to do.
  
 Don't worry about me not catching up. With hi-end audios, we will all end up with bankrupt-worthy bills one way or other, it's just a matter of time getting there. Luckily, with earbuds, it is slower.
  
 EDIT: Oh, I thought it was over $300. Hmm... close the AE window & step away slowly.


----------



## magitka27

vapman said:


> I doubt you would even use close to the full power of the e12, unless you had everything reduced by 20dB or something.



So its the same with the q1? If i want to use maximum power i have to do the same? ._.



saoshyant said:


> X5 to E12, the 320 sounds really good. I prefer it with bass boost on, which gives some seriously respectable bass for an earbud. The closest analogy I can think of is in full sized headphones, closed headphones are typically the bass winners, but some open headphones like the Hifiman HE400 just sound surprisingly good. The earbud won't be that good of course, but with my experience with earbuds so far, the bass on this one is stellar for what an earbud can do.




I love the bass on 150 which means the 320 is an rescpectable upgrade ! Hahaha i think i need to save more bucks and start to work =_=




clieos said:


> Just in case any of you missed the news, E12 / E12A will be phased out soon and replaced by A5 - which is basically combining the SQ of E12A with the output power of regular E12. Should hit the shelves by end of Oct.




Sounds legit :3 but i dont think my budget will cover the price when its arrived in Indonesia =_=


----------



## boblauer

purplesun said:


> @boblauer
> Thanks for the write up. Am going towards rx-1(just ordered) from monk plus. To my ears, though I find it overly warm, MP has a great cosy bar staging which should be great with jazz performances. Though, again to my ears, I find plucked/striked strings a little slow in their attack. So instead of a open baby grand in a jazz bar, I hear an old closed upright. And acoustic guitars sound a bit veiled to me. Is that the kind of sounds you are hearing? With the accolades MP is receiving, I am beginning to think my Fiio E10k may not be a good match with MP's sound signature.


 
 I find the MP slightly more veiled than the RX1 for instruments like you mention, if I listen to Bella Fleck or Jean Luc Ponty on violin the RX1 seems to deliver slightly better and presence of the instrument in the sound stage . However then go back to something like Rainbow or Deep Purple and I want the MP for the grinding crunching sound. The TP16 is basically right in the middle of both but that space is very small in terms of difference. I find myself liking one over the other based more on non sound related things. I love the TP16 cable, thin pliable easy to travel with. I prefer the isolation and fit of MP over RX1. I guess that's why I carry all 3 rolled in my case. If I had to travel light it would be the MP or TP16.
  
 I'm going to try listening to something like Herbie Hancock or Chick Correa tonight thru all 3 in terms of piano/keyboards and the placement in the sound stage.


----------



## vapman

@magitka27
 I meant if you want to actually be switching on high gain and turning it all the way up.... but if you want to do that that's cool


----------



## purplesun

boblauer said:


> I find the MP slightly more veiled than the RX1 for instruments like you mention, if I listen to Bella Fleck or Jean Luc Ponty on violin the RX1 seems to deliver slightly better and presence of the instrument in the sound stage . However then go back to something like Rainbow or Deep Purple and I want the MP for the grinding crunching sound. The TP16 is basically right in the middle of both but that space is very small in terms of difference. I find myself liking one over the other based more on non sound related things. I love the TP16 cable, thin pliable easy to travel with. I prefer the isolation and fit of MP over RX1. I guess that's why I carry all 3 rolled in my case. If I had to travel light it would be the MP or TP16.
> 
> I'm going to try listening to something like Herbie Hancock or Chick Correa tonight thru all 3 in terms of piano/keyboards and the placement in the sound stage.


 
 Yeah, generally veiled for my taste. I think bowed instruments are fine; probably better, as the warmth should give them a richer tone. I think rock music with amped instruments should also sound good too. It's the attack of acoustic percussive/striked/plucked sounds I find a bit unnatural. Obviously, for electronic sounds, it's impossible to tell as the soundscape is pretty unnatural in the first place. Have to get a leaner DAC to test monk plus further.


----------



## istlove

Hy-1 earbud's ranking is the contender #1 or #10?


----------



## kartik7405

RX1 vs MX98s anyone can compare the signature of two ??


----------



## vapman

kartik7405 said:


> RX1 vs MX98s anyone can compare the signature of two ??


 

 The honest answer is they are pretty different.
  
 The MX98s is like a mini Cygnus / Asura 2.0. It is a little rough on presentation compared to those two. Very forward signature, good seaparation, decent separation.
  
 The RX1 is a much more laid back sound and would probably be more dynamic than the Mx98s but be a little lifeless in comparison.


----------



## kartik7405

vapman said:


> The honest answer is they are pretty different.
> 
> The MX98s is like a mini Cygnus / Asura 2.0. It is a little rough on presentation compared to those two. Very forward signature, good seaparation, decent separation.
> 
> The RX1 is a much more laid back sound and would probably be more dynamic than the Mx98s but be a little lifeless in comparison.


 
 Already have a RX-1 ..And One Sheaf LD 3.0 400 ohm on the way.So is worth spending on mx98s ??Thanks


----------



## vapman

kartik7405 said:


> Already have a RX-1 ..And One Sheaf LD 3.0 400 ohm on the way.So is worth spending on mx98s ??Thanks


 

 Might be. It's different enough from the LD 3.0 400ohm to be possibly worth having both. The MX98s sounds a lot more like the LD 4.0's i heard.


----------



## music4mhell

istlove said:


> Hy-1 earbud's ranking is the contender #1 or #10?


 
 #10


----------



## JASru

Ordered ATH C770 on ebay. Lets see if it is worth 10usd.


----------



## ClieOS

jasru said:


> Ordered ATH C770 on ebay. Lets see if it is worth 10usd.




If it is from China, quite possibly it won't be genuine.


----------



## JASru

clieos said:


> If it is from China, quite possibly it won't be genuine.


 Expectations are low anyway. Have you listened to them?


----------



## istlove

I have vx pro but when i charge my device, electric shock hurts my left ear. Maybe because of metal housing.

How about hy-1 compared with vx pro?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Wearing my ROSE MOJITO ala CIEM style with Memory Wire Cable is comfort heaven!


----------



## ClieOS

jasru said:


> Expectations are low anyway. Have you listened to them?



Not C770, only C999.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Not C770, only C999.


 
 Sifu you planning on trying the Masya?


----------



## magitka27

hey @vapman i tried ur idea mate, reducing the gain at -24db and push the q1 into the max volume, im using Foobar atm..

 the sound is good btw! but i know its crazy, XD


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> Sifu you planning on trying the Masya?




Pretty sure I am the first person to order it. Should be here with in a day or two.


----------



## Saoshyant

@ClieOS I'm really hoping they turn out well.  Looking forward to any impressions you might have.


----------



## golov17

Nice buds 32 Ohm


----------



## vapman

AudioNewbi3 that was my favorite way to use mojito too 

I almost bought a Masya yesterday but im always skeptical of multi driver units, so decided to wait for a review, even though i liked mojito.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Pretty sure I am the first person to order it. Should be here with in a day or two.


 
 Oh nice nice! Can't wait for your impressions of them.
   
 Quote:


vapman said:


> @AudioNewbi3 that was my favorite way to use mojito too
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I was spektical at first, before buying this able, I tried to wear the Mojito CIEM style by due to the lack of memory wire in my previous cables, it did not hold up well. However, once you add memory wire into the mix, they are just soo bloody comfortable!


----------



## vapman

magitka27 said:


> hey @vapman i tried ur idea mate, reducing the gain at -24db and push the q1 into the max volume, im using Foobar atm..
> 
> the sound is good btw! but i know its crazy, XD


 

 good, good.... now boost the sub bass until 90hz +20dB!
  




  
@AudioNewbi3  i have an old picture somewhere of my old red/blue Mojito with an IEM cable which has the ear hooks built into the cable. It worked and sounded amazing.


----------



## AkashS04

What difference it will make in Sound Quality, especially in bass and warmness if the Impedance is higher like 64 Ohms or even more. Also, will these earbuds with high impedance like 62 or 128 or even more will be compatible with iPod?


----------



## magitka27

vapman said:


> good, good.... now boost the sub bass until 90hz +20dB!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 no i wont do that , scary enough as the seahf is my only one earbud T.T i'm waiting for fiio a5 and then aim for cheaper 2nd hand fiio e12 to feed this seahf


----------



## vapman

akashs04 said:


> What difference it will make in Sound Quality, especially in bass and warmness if the Impedance is higher like 64 Ohms or even more. Also, will these earbuds with high impedance like 62 or 128 or even more will be compatible with iPod?


 

 completely irrelevant
  
 you can have a 16 ohm earbud that has no bass or warmth. you can have a 320 ohm earbud that is great with the ipod. you can have a 150 ohm earbud that the ipod struggles with.
  
 there are many more factors far more important than impedance that will dictate how a bud sounds.
  


magitka27 said:


> no i wont do that , scary enough as the seahf is my only one earbud T.T i'm waiting for fiio a5 and then aim for cheaper 2nd hand fiio e12 to feed this seahf


 
  

  
  
 for all earbuds and headphone and speakers


----------



## magitka27

vapman said:


> completely irrelevant
> 
> you can have a 16 ohm earbud that has no bass or warmth. you can have a 320 ohm earbud that is great with the ipod. you can have a 150 ohm earbud that the ipod struggles with.
> 
> ...


 
 hmm i will try to find the eq software,

 i tried with Foobar's default EQ.
 hell yeah the bass made me smile XD so powerfull XD


----------



## vapman

magitka27 said:


> hmm i will try to find the eq software,
> 
> i tried with Foobar's default EQ.
> hell yeah the bass made me smile XD so powerfull XD


 
 http://www.reaper.fm/reaplugs/ 100% freeware
  
 you will need the foobar VST wrapper - keep in mind it takes a little bit for your changes to take place, the wrapper is not perfect... it can crash if you do too much at a time  https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,84947.0.html


----------



## teston

@BloodyPenguin said that the earbud Thailand BOE even has wider soundstage than the Asura (I don't know if it touch the Asura 2.0 as I don't have a chance to listen to the V1.0 yet) so I'm very tempted to order one. I am interested in their new WHE too but it seems that noone have it yet. Waiting for someone that make me pull the trigger


----------



## AkashS04

I understand but then what difference Impedance will make? If no difference then why not all earbuds have 16 or 32 ohms impedance?


----------



## vapman

akashs04 said:


> I understand but then what difference Impedance will make? If no difference then why not all earbuds have 16 or 32 ohms impedance?


 

 I'm sorry but this is not worth answering or discussing. you can look up why http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/speakers-different-impedances/
  
 What drivers are used, how they are tuned, cable, frequency range, speaker sensitivity, etc, all make more of a difference in the sound that reaches your ears than the number of ohms.
  
 I highly suggest to you, as i have said before, to get all the sub $10 earbuds that interest you, wait for them to be delivered, and then you have useful knowledge of what you do and don't like, which is infinitely more helpful than anything anyone can and will tell you.
  
 I am not trying to come across as harsh but it seems like you are unwilling to try the earbuds you are interested in.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

teston said:


> @BloodyPenguin said that the earbud Thailand BOE even has wider soundstage than the Asura (I don't know if it touch the Asura 2.0 as I don't have a chance to listen to the V1.0 yet) so I'm very tempted to order one. I am interested in their new WHE too but it seems that noone have it yet. Waiting for someone that make me pull the trigger


 
  
 I will do my best to compare the BOE, WHE, Asura 1.0 and 2.0 soon.
  
 The Earbud Thailand WHE is being send out to me in a few days.  I think I should have it within about two weeks if all goes well.
  
 ..


----------



## Ira Delphic

akashs04 said:


> I understand but then what difference Impedance will make? If no difference then why not all earbuds have 16 or 32 ohms impedance?


 
  
 For all practical purposes, IEMs, buds and headphones over 64ohm need an AMP to drive properly. There may be some exceptions.
 But as @vapman said, it's not just about ohms. Are there any 32ohm earbuds that NEED an amp to play with reasonable volume? I don't think so. Are there some 32ohm earbuds that need an amp for optimal sound quality? Yes. 
  
 Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## vapman

ira delphic said:


> For all practical purposes, IEMs, buds and headphones over 64ohm need an AMP to drive properly. There may be some exceptions.
> But as @vapman said, it's not just about ohms. Are there any 32ohm earbuds that NEED an amp to play with reasonable volume? I don't think so. Are there some 32ohm earbuds that need an amp for optimal sound quality? Yes.
> 
> Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.


 

 I would say you can comfortably and easily get up to at least 150 ohms without trouble (at least for earbuds). A bunch things will even do 300-320ish just fine without an extra amp. but otherwise i think you are correct 
  
 earbuds are generally such low power that high impedance doesn't always mean amp is needed.


----------



## zakazak

To which Sennheisers range are the VE Monk+ compareable?
  
 Comparing the Monk+ I think they are compareable with Yuin PK2/3 ?
  
 Thanks !


----------



## Ira Delphic

zakazak said:


> To which Sennheisers range are the VE Monk+ compareable?
> 
> Comparing the Monk+ I think they are compareable with Yuin PK2/3 ?
> 
> Thanks !


 
  
 I like the Sennheiser MX 680 Adidas Sports earbuds. Very different sound signature than MP, and I prefer the MP overall but the MX 680 has some benefits. Waterproof, and the removable section with analog volume control is very useful. I prefer to use it for electronic music. The sub bass isn't there and the mids can be awkward with some music. The build very good and the cords are strong - kevlar. I picked up a pair of refurbs for $15 a few weeks ago and just got another pair from Ebay for $10. Not everyone will like the sound.  But for $10 it's worth it for the volume control that extends the cable and can be used for other buds and IEMs. It's a nice pair of extra buds to have just in case...
  
 One more thing - I have to use the EQ frequently, especially on the low end. But the bass does respond to EQ adjustments. This is not a bud for bassheads.


----------



## Tomasz2D

Red De'mun, Edifier H180 and Philips SHE3800*.
  
 So, Philips sounds like distorted, low-fi, under blanket and with shrank soundstage version of Red De'mun. In other words - Red De'mun is much closer to Philips than to Edifier in sound signature. 
  

  
 * There may be different versions of SHE3800 that may sound differently. My Philips is from LunaShops.


----------



## purplesun

tomasz2d said:


> Red De'mun, Edifier H180 and Philips SHE3800*.
> 
> So, Philips sounds like distorted, low-fi, under blanket and with shrank soundstage version of Red De'mun. In other words - Red De'mun is much closer to Philips than to Edifier in sound signature.
> 
> * There may be different versions of SHE3800 that may sound differently. My Philips is from LunaShops.


 
 Mine's coming from fasttech.
 Any burn-in time?
 J or Y cables?


----------



## abimanyu

Can any one tell me where can i buy Blox BE7?


----------



## Tomasz2D

purplesun said:


> Mine's coming from fasttech.
> Any burn-in time?
> J or Y cables?


 
 Y cable and I do not follow any specific burn-in procedure. I just use my stuff normally from day one. Philips are the newest so they may have just couple of hours usage time (just a few full albums).


----------



## purplesun

tomasz2d said:


> Y cable and I do not follow any specific burn-in procedure. I just use my stuff normally from day one. Philips are the newest so they may have just couple of hours usage time (just a few full albums).



Good info. Thanks.


----------



## Danneq

zakazak said:


> To which Sennheisers range are the VE Monk+ compareable?
> 
> Comparing the Monk+ I think they are compareable with Yuin PK2/3 ?
> 
> Thanks !


 

 I have owned both Yuin PK2 and PK3. PK2 has got wonderful mids but besides that I would say that Monk+ is slightly better overall. Monk+ quite easily beat PK3. Very good for a $5 earbud...
  


abimanyu said:


> Can any one tell me where can i buy Blox BE7?


 

 In the buy and sell forums here on Head fi?


----------



## MRK1

I just managed to fit the ear hooks into my Earbell E100 with the foams and believe me this is the best sound quality I've ever heard from an earbud, by far. They sound WAY better than the monk & monk+. I don't have any high end earbud such as the cygnus or anything but I now believe why these were so hyped. I never got the optimal fit with them but using the ear hooks they fit perfectly and I can hear their full sound. Going from these to the Monk+ or older Monk is like going from actual full size headphones to a cheap muddy boombox. I'm using the ear hooks and the thick donut foams I got in the Monk "Expansion Pack".
  
 Soundstage is very good, bass is tight and punchy and goes very deep (sometimes I hear a little bit of that subwoofer effect in my chest), detail is just ridiculous compared to Monks, mids are liquid smooth.
  
 I heard recently made E100 are awful, but the original model (the one that I have) is the one that was hyped around here some time ago, if you still have them could you give me your impression using them with the earhooks?


----------



## JASru

Mp-16 received.
Ohmygodohmygodohmygod. Let me get on a hype train. It is so good. In terms of SQ it looks as a natural step up from Monk+ (the sig is different though). I will update after 2-4 days of listening.
Thanks to ppl who mentioned it here before.


----------



## JASru

Btw is mx98s out of stock by HCK?(((


----------



## Nec3

My SeaHF 400ohms came in! I ordered them on friday, got them exactly on the week after. Nice.

 Came with a dozen donuts :>


----------



## ld100

What is mp16?


----------



## JASru

Sorry, typo. Tp16. Musicmaker Tp16.


----------



## ld100

jasru said:


> Sorry, typo. Tp16. Musicmaker Tp16.




Waiting for one too... Let me know how you like yours after few days...


----------



## JASru

ld100 said:


> Waiting for one too... Let me know how you like yours after few days...


Sure. Want to listen to them and Tomahawks to compare.


----------



## boblauer

jasru said:


> Mp-16 received.
> Ohmygodohmygodohmygod. Let me get on a hype train. It is so good. In terms of SQ it looks as a natural step up from Monk+ (the sig is different though). I will update after 2-4 days of listening.
> Thanks to ppl who mentioned it here before.


 
 Yep I drag around MP, TP16 and RX1 daily and switch depending on mood and subject matter. I find a place for all 3 for my listening tastes. The cable on the TP16 is so nice and makes using it pleasant and they fit better than RX1 for me. My next to add to the rotation will be a Ting and it'll be interesting to see if there's any similar signature between the TP16 and Ting, bought it on a whim so we'll see. Glad you are enjoying those, there's so many nice buds for @$20 usd it's crazy.


----------



## vapman

I still want to give the Ting a shot. I just never can bring myself to spend what it costs. Also, seems my TY 650 shipped via Hong Kong Post not ePacket, so it might be a while before I see them


----------



## JASru

boblauer said:


> Yep I drag around MP, TP16 and RX1 daily and switch depending on mood and subject matter. I find a place for all 3 for my listening tastes. The cable on the TP16 is so nice and makes using it pleasant and they fit better than RX1 for me. My next to add to the rotation will be a Ting and it'll be interesting to see if there's any similar signature between the TP16 and Ting, bought it on a whim so we'll see. Glad you are enjoying those, there's so many nice buds for @$20 usd it's crazy.


I guess I'll go for TY2 next. Ting is an option too. VX as well. So many options. Huh.


----------



## boblauer

Both VX Pro and Tomahawk where on my short list but I was having lunch with an old friend who is Jamaican and the place we meet up at, a Jamaican restaurant, he always orders a soft drink called Ting which comes in a green bottle. Low and behold AE had a green own marked way down so I bit. 
  
@vapman Green Ting on AE for $35, call me a nostalgic sucker or cosmic wanderer due to above revelation but thought it must be for me!


----------



## vapman

boblauer said:


> Both VX Pro and Tomahawk where on my short list but I was having lunch with an old friend who is Jamaican and the place we meet up at, a Jamaican restaurant, he always orders a soft drink called Ting which comes in a green bottle. Low and behold AE had a green own marked way down so I bit.
> 
> @vapman Green Ting on AE for $35, call me a nostalgic sucker or cosmic wanderer due to above revelation but thought it must be for me!


 

 I know the green Ting is a lesser model though, it's not the same as the silver Ting that's about $75. I know some people have both and referred to the green one as Ting Lite. I almost bought it probably a different dozen times now, the green one at $35, but never did... I never got along great with MM products, be it IEM or Earbud.


----------



## ld100

jasru said:


> I guess I'll go for TY2 next. Ting is an option too. VX as well. So many options. Huh.


 
  
 I am anxiously waiting for new Cygnus and Rose reviews. I see those in my future if they are good...


----------



## vapman

speaking of which - is there a release date on the Cygnus BK, or other official announcements on it?


----------



## ClieOS

vapman said:


> speaking of which - is there a release date on the Cygnus BK, or other official announcements on it?


 
  
 Sometime around mid Oct. is currently the best estimation.


----------



## boblauer

vapman said:


> I know the green Ting is a lesser model though, it's not the same as the silver Ting that's about $75. I know some people have both and referred to the green one as Ting Lite. I almost bought it probably a different dozen times now, the green one at $35, but never did... I never got along great with MM products, be it IEM or Earbud.


 
 Well I'll hopefully know in 3 weeks or so, if so I'llpost the results as I've heard the silver ones.


----------



## ld100

So I have to ask a question... Why there are only few two driver earbuds and no three or more driver units? I think spacewise 2-3 driver units should not be that difficult to make...


----------



## ld100

bloodypenguin said:


> Also, not sure if these have been posted on here.
> 
> 
> Anyone know anything about the *Audio Technica J100*?
> ...


 
  
  
 They are around 20 dollars. I wonder if they are any good...


----------



## Saoshyant

ld100 said:


> They are around 20 dollars. I wonder if they are any good...


 
 I can order it from Amazon to try it if you'd like.  There are multiple sellers at around $15 for the pink & green.  Other colors cost up to $19, and apparently there are a TON of color options, so you can certainly pick one that suits you.
  
 Amazon claims these are around 3 or so years old, so I wouldn't be surprised if someone's given them a try.


----------



## vapman

ld100 said:


> So I have to ask a question... Why there are only few two driver earbuds and no three or more driver units? I think spacewise 2-3 driver units should not be that difficult to make...


 

 Tuning two DD's to not have any problem zones is hard enough, I haven't heard of many triple dynamic driver units even for earbuds or headphones. My SZ2000 is double driver and I have some nice Seahf IEMs that are double driver as well, but I really don't use IEMs ever anymore.


----------



## ld100

saoshyant said:


> I can order it from Amazon to try it if you'd like.  There are multiple sellers at around $15 for the pink & green.  Other colors cost up to $19, and apparently there are a TON of color options, so you can certainly pick one that suits you.
> 
> Amazon claims these are around 3 or so years old, so I wouldn't be surprised if someone's given them a try.


 
  
 I see them at 14 with free shipping... I wonder if they even worth that much...


----------



## ld100

vapman said:


> Tuning two DD's to not have any problem zones is hard enough, I haven't heard of many triple dynamic driver units even for earbuds or headphones. My SZ2000 is double driver and I have some nice Seahf IEMs that are double driver as well, but I really don't use IEMs ever anymore.


 
  
 There are upper tier IEM with 6-7-8 driver I guess. I hear what you saying, but if Rose & Ting can do it it must not be that complicated in a earbud...


----------



## vapman

ld100 said:


> There are upper tier IEM with 6-7-8 driver I guess. I hear what you saying, but if Rose & Ting can do it it must not be that complicated in a earbud...


 

 Those are using BA's though, not dynamic drivers. that said, i would love to hear what could happen with BA's and an earbud. I would think it would have practically no bass response and tons of razor thin microdetailing.


----------



## Saoshyant

I'm assuming there has to be a reason we're unaware of a BA based earbud.  Perhaps it has to do with the nature of a nozzle vs the large surface area of an earbud for directing sound.


----------



## vapman

I think you are right which is why it's harder to make do with small drivers on a earbud. That's why you don't see much smaller than 14mm while new IEMs even in single driver configs seem to rarely break 9mm, with 8mm and smaller seemingly most popular.


----------



## Nec3

Just a note to everyone with SeaHF 400ohms. Keep these away from overprocessed music! Something weird about the upper mids makes a weird resonance. But my goodness do these sound incredible with binaural, piano, {not so much violin}, and selective vocals. @.@


----------



## vapman

nec3 said:


> Just a note to everyone with SeaHF 400ohms. Keep these away from overprocessed music! Something weird about the upper mids makes a weird resonance. But my goodness do these sound incredible with binaural, piano, {not so much violin}, and selective vocals. @.@


 

 400 or 400S?


----------



## ld100

vapman said:


> Those are using BA's though, not dynamic drivers. that said, i would love to hear what could happen with BA's and an earbud. I would think it would have practically no bass response and tons of razor thin microdetailing.


 
  
 Good point.


----------



## Nec3

vapman said:


> 400 or 400S?


 
 400


----------



## kinetic758

I have a love/hate relationship with Rose. The sound of their products is excellent but the build quality seems amateur. Seems like I can't say no, however. After a brief hiatus due to a nagging ear infection I'm ready for more. Just placed an order for the Masya.


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> AudioNewbi3 that was my favorite way to use mojito too
> 
> I almost bought a Masya yesterday but im always skeptical of multi driver units, so decided to wait for a review, even though i liked mojito.




Not at all certain if being dual driver has anything to do with it, but the current buds that I own that have the most clarity and detail are both the Mojito and TKY2. 




vapman said:


> I still want to give the Ting a shot. I just never can bring myself to spend what it costs. Also, seems my TY 650 shipped via Hong Kong Post not ePacket, so it might be a while before I see them


 

Just do it already! I think you would enjoy them (perhaps with the bass boost switched to ON, however). Smooth and musical after break in.


----------



## vapman

Is the Yuin OK1 a new model? Did i miss something? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 also if I do end up getting a musicmaker bud, Ting or TY2?


----------



## ClieOS

vapman said:


> Is the Yuin OK1 a new model? Did i miss something?




It is the latest flagship - but released in 2008.


----------



## Townyj

So i see the VSonic VSD3P is now available.. hmmmm. $39usd aint to bad. Hmmm


----------



## rggz

mrk1 said:


> I just managed to fit the ear hooks into my Earbell E100 with the foams and believe me this is the best sound quality I've ever heard from an earbud, by far. They sound WAY better than the monk & monk+. I don't have any high end earbud such as the cygnus or anything but I now believe why these were so hyped. I never got the optimal fit with them but using the ear hooks they fit perfectly and I can hear their full sound. Going from these to the Monk+ or older Monk is like going from actual full size headphones to a cheap muddy boombox. I'm using the ear hooks and the thick donut foams I got in the Monk "Expansion Pack".
> 
> Soundstage is very good, bass is tight and punchy and goes very deep (sometimes I hear a little bit of that subwoofer effect in my chest), detail is just ridiculous compared to Monks, mids are liquid smooth.
> 
> I heard recently made E100 are awful, but the original model (the one that I have) is the one that was hyped around here some time ago, if you still have them could you give me your impression using them with the earhooks?


 

 Indeed, I've made this post some time ago talking about the difference between the drivers and there are at least 3 types of drivers, it's a shame. Like you I was very happy with E100 and unfortunately, I lost my good pair.

 About earhooks I was used fitting my earhoox like that with the large ones around the "bell", not in the drivers, best comfort/fit for me.


----------



## Saoshyant

townyj said:


> So i see the VSonic VSD3P is now available.. hmmmm. $39usd aint to bad for a dual driver. Hmmm


 
 I already ordered it, I'm guessing 3 or so weeks.


----------



## zakazak

danneq said:


> I have owned both Yuin PK2 and PK3. PK2 has got wonderful mids but besides that I would say that Monk+ is slightly better overall. Monk+ quite easily beat PK3. Very good for a $5 earbud...


 
  
 Thanks, I can't wait to get them.. I feel like I should have ordered 2 or 3.. just in case.. because 5$ is nothing 
  
 I basically need something half decent because going from my HD600 to MX365 or MX375 was like ear cancer to me.


----------



## ClieOS

townyj said:


> So i see the VSonic VSD3P is now available.. hmmmm. $39usd aint to bad for a dual driver. Hmmm




It has only ONE 16mm dynamic transducer per side.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> It is the latest flagship - but released in 2008.


 
 Sifu, can you briefly describe the sound signature of the Tone King Dual Drivers?


----------



## mebaali

Got the 4.5 US$ used earbuds from eBay, today (which the seller claimed of Aiwa brand). To my ears, these have got next to nothing lows and way too forward mids and grainy treble. These are highly inefficient to drive as well (used Fiio X1 and NX1 combo). Cable is under 1 meter, going to try and recble this.


----------



## Fabi

vapman said:


> Also, seems my TY 650 shipped via Hong Kong Post not ePacket, so it might be a while before I see them


If you bought it from Penon with HKpost, I think they actually ship from HK, cause it always takes around 2 weeks after placing order to arrive to me, it may vary with national vacations there. This is different from shipping from mainland China, even with Hkpost it takes forever to come.


----------



## Townyj

clieos said:


> It has only ONE 16mm dynamic transducer per side.




Thanks For fixing that.. i read dual dynamic driver. Go figure 



saoshyant said:


> I already ordered it, I'm guessing 3 or so weeks.




Will look forward to your impressions  seeing as the UU2 got such a bad rap i hope they stepped it up with the VSD3P.


----------



## purplesun

Just want to say, I have never had an earphone change its character so much than TY Hi-Z 32 during burn-in period. Most earphones I have used sort of stabilize after 2 days. But with TY Hi-Z 32 it's still changing at 140 hours.
  
 At 48 hours - it had bloated bass and while the upper mids & highs were recessed. So I thought that was that, another hyped earbud that was so-so in real life. I was disappointed.
  
 At about 100 hours - the highs and staging opened up noticeably, nice and airy. While the bass became less bloated (still was bit too much for me). This was more like it. The hype was real!
  
 At about 140 hours - bass was now slightly less (about right for me, but probably not enough for bassheads). Mids took a step forward and highs was still extending further, Cymbals/hi hats started to sound distorted to me. This new sound has me thinking of applying some EQ cuts to tame the highs and probably a bit for the the mids as well.
  
 It's been a new journey with these modern earbuds. They may look like earbuds made decades ago, but they certainly do not behave like them. Not your Grandpas earbuds, for sure.
  
 EDIT: Using straight plug version TY Hi-Z 32.


----------



## vapman

fabi said:


> If you bought it from Penon with HKpost, I think they actually ship from HK, cause it always takes around 2 weeks after placing order to arrive to me, it may vary with national vacations there. This is different from shipping from mainland China, even with Hkpost it takes forever to come.


 

 Argh! Penon


----------



## luedriver

I found some "oppo" earbuds on aliexpress here, even though the title says usure
  
 so I tried looking up if oppo had made any earbuds at all, if not similar to the usure/oppo and found these  OPPO Official Earphone MH123 which probably are the same earbuds that they give with their smartphones only sold separately
  
  
 I also found these for less than 70 aus cents, not worth mentioning, but they seem so ridiculously low priced and even comes with a USB cable, its a wonder why they even bother


----------



## Willber

ld100 said:


> There are upper tier IEM with 6-7-8 driver I guess.


 
  
 6-7-8 drivers? Pah, you need 14! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 https://www.empireears.com/product/zeus-xiv/


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> Is the Yuin OK1 a new model? Did i miss something? :eek:
> 
> also if I do end up getting a musicmaker bud, Ting or TY2?




I would go with TY2 if youre willing to sacrifice a bit of low end for some added clarity and sound stage depth. Even with a mild bass boost I do still find the low end somewhat lacking in impact however. I know you like your bass, so maybe Ting? Not that Ting is a bass monster, it's just that TY2 it's really reserved in that department.


----------



## ld100

willber said:


> 6-7-8 drivers? Pah, you need 14!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Crazy. I wonder how they sound...


----------



## jamesbdh

apologize about oot but does anyone have experience with ems in the US?  Package says stuck in JFK for aver 10 days and nothing since.  Is that normal?

14/09/2016 14:42Posted7500015/09/2016 11:24Arrived at export officeJakarta, Java15/09/2016 11:28Departed from export officeJakarta, Java19/09/2016 13:46Arrived at destination import officeJohn F. Kennedy Apt/New York


----------



## vapman

kinetic758 said:


> I would go with TY2 if youre willing to sacrifice a bit of low end for some added clarity and sound stage depth. Even with a mild bass boost I do still find the low end somewhat lacking in impact however. I know you like your bass, so maybe Ting? Not that Ting is a bass monster, it's just that TY2 it's really reserved in that department.




Thanks for the advice... Ty2 sounds good but i think ill thin out my bud collection a bit first  its getting a little wild again.



jamesbdh said:


> apologize about oot but does anyone have experience with ems in the US?  Package says stuck in JFK for aver 10 days and nothing since.  Is that normal?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hmmmm... Normal EMS? Ive never had anything get stuck coming *into* the country with EMS over a week... What if you track it with usps?


----------



## MRK1

rggz said:


> Indeed, I've made this post some time ago talking about the difference between the drivers and there are at least 3 types of drivers, it's a shame. Like you I was very happy with E100 and unfortunately, I lost my good pair.
> 
> 
> About earhooks I was used fitting my earhoox like that with the large ones around the "bell", not in the drivers, best comfort/fit for me.




I remember your post, is what I used to tell which driver mine used and it's indeed the first one with the best sound. I have the auglamour rx1 coming, they're supposed to be pretty good and better than monk and the e100 so hopefully they'll deliver. I'll try to wear them with the method you suggest, but like this I can't even feel them in my ears after a while and the sound is pretty amazing.


----------



## audio123

whats rose masya? http://penonaudio.com/Rose-Masya
 anyone care to share impressions


----------



## Ira Delphic

I've read all the comparisons between MP vs. auglamour rx1 and I don't think it's reasonable to conclude that the auglamour rx1 is better. Cost and quality dont have a positive correlation necessarily when it comes to earbuds.


----------



## rggz

mrk1 said:


> I remember your post, is what I used to tell which driver mine used and it's indeed the first one with the best sound. I have the auglamour rx1 coming, they're supposed to be pretty good and better than monk and the e100 so hopefully they'll deliver. I'll try to wear them with the method you suggest, but like this I can't even feel them in my ears after a while and the sound is pretty amazing.


 

 Haha, but if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it! Tbh by memory RX-1 has less bass extension and cymbals/voices sound more realistic on E100 but it is a good earbud when I get the sweet spot in my ears otherwise if I can't fit properly they sound "dry" and small in my case.


----------



## kvad

audio123 said:


> whats rose masya? http://penonaudio.com/Rose-Masya
> anyone care to share impressions


 

 ​Don't think we have any impressions yet, but a few have ordered them.
 AudioNewbi3 (who if I recall correctly had been in contact with a seller) described them as Mojito tuned for vocals.


----------



## vapman

@purplesun completely agreeing that the TY 32 is an impressive burner-inner. I can't think of too many others off the top of my head that have changed its character so noticably in a burn in period. They are not my new favorites or Monk killers or anything (I like them as an alternative but not a replacement for Monks) and Asura 2.0 is also sounding great with more time burning in. It is much better for electronic music than i remembered.
  
 After several days of TY 32 & Asura 2.0 use the Cygnus sounds really rolled off treble in comparison.


----------



## batonchik03

Guys, help please. What buds to buy? Shozy Cygnus or VE Asura?


----------



## kurtextrem

batonchik03 said:


> Guys, help please. What buds to buy? Shozy Cygnus or VE Asura?


 
 Depends. Cygnus has more soundstage than Asura 2 (so Cygnus is better for gaming). Asura 2 sounds closer to the middle of your head and it has the VE sound signature.


----------



## batonchik03

kurtextrem said:


> Depends. Cygnus has more soundstage than Asura 2 (so Cygnus is better for gaming). Asura 2 sounds closer to the middle of your head and it has the VE sound signature.


 What have more punchy and tight bass? I had sunrise dragon 2 and really enjoyed until my little sister destroyed them(. Unfortunately can't find where to buy new dragons. If you listened them - what buds of 2 stated above or maybe other buds have similar signature : punchy bass and a lot of air? (Sorry if my English is not that good).


----------



## BloodyPenguin

boblauer said:


> Both VX Pro and Tomahawk where on my short list but I was having lunch with an old friend who is Jamaican and the place we meet up at, a Jamaican restaurant, he always orders a soft drink called Ting which comes in a green bottle. Low and behold AE had a green own marked way down so I bit.
> 
> @vapman Green Ting on AE for $35, call me a nostalgic sucker or cosmic wanderer due to above revelation but thought it must be for me!


 
  
 To be honest, I REALLY am enjoying the *Green Ting* more and more.  Seems after some burn in, the bass has come up a bit, giving it a much fuller sound.  Clarity is still top notch and they seem to have perfect balanced drivers.  I wear mine with thick foam covers and comfort is quite wonderful.
  

  
 --


----------



## kurtextrem

batonchik03 said:


> What have more punchy and tight bass? I had sunrise dragon 2 and really enjoyed until my little sister destroyed them(. Unfortunately can't find where to buy new dragons. If you listened them - what buds of 2 stated above or maybe other buds have similar signature : punchy bass and a lot of air? (Sorry if my English is not that good).


 
 cygnus has more air, but for me neither of them has "great" bass.


----------



## vapman

batonchik03 said:


> What have more punchy and tight bass? I had sunrise dragon 2 and really enjoyed until my little sister destroyed them(. Unfortunately can't find where to buy new dragons. If you listened them - what buds of 2 stated above or maybe other buds have similar signature : punchy bass and a lot of air? (Sorry if my English is not that good).


 

 Whats wrong with your swd2? Broken housing or cable? Both are fixable.... hopefully not a blown driver somehow?
  
 i had the swd2 for a couple weeks so i am familiar with its sound sig. it is much closer to asura 2.0. asura 2 is actually a little better but the same signature IMO.
  
 cygnus is going to be more energetic but have a much more rolled off treble in comparison to the asura 2.0 or swd2. i would say asura 2 has a bit more sparkle than swd2 and comparable bass.


----------



## ld100

ira delphic said:


> I've read all the comparisons between MP vs. auglamour rx1 and I don't think it's reasonable to conclude that the auglamour rx1 is better. Cost and quality dont have a positive correlation necessarily when it comes to earbuds.


 
  
 Very subjective. I often prefer MP over RX1. MP has a little more omph... While RX might have better detail. If the cost would be the same and fit and finish the same I would probably choose MP to be honest...


----------



## batonchik03

vapman said:


> Whats wrong with your swd2? Broken housing or cable? Both are fixable.... hopefully not a blown driver somehow?
> 
> i had the swd2 for a couple weeks so i am familiar with its sound sig. it is much closer to asura 2.0. asura 2 is actually a little better but the same signature IMO.
> 
> cygnus is going to be more energetic but have a much more rolled off treble in comparison to the asura 2.0 or swd2. i would say asura 2 has a bit more sparkle than swd2 and comparable bass.


 cable was broken...unfortunately they are not fixable ( dad tried to resolder with a damn cheap and inappropriately big soldering-iron and fired them to nothing)) thnx man, will try asura ! ) although , can you share a link where 100% original Cygnus can be bought. Is any trusted seller on aliexpress?


----------



## vapman

batonchik03 said:


> cable was broken...unfortunately they are not fixable ( dad tried to resolder with a damn cheap and inappropriately big soldering-iron and fired them to nothing)) thnx man, will try asura ! ) although , can you share a link where 100% original Cygnus can be bought. Is any trusted seller on aliexpress?


 

 ahhh, sorry to hear that man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 reminds me of asking my parents to help when i was modding my first ps1 years and years ago...
 i think you'll like the asura lots.


----------



## Fabi

Update of HP-400s on my setup.
Still on honeymoon  
Using my SP OCC IC makes it sound indeed a bit too warm. With some standard OFC IC, it sounds less warm, more tight bass, overall clearer but also less refined...
Next step, try an other IC, maybe Cardas


----------



## Brian Coffey

Cables came in today for my first DIY earbud project. Hope this is the right thread. Wife's not interested in this stuff so thought I'd post it here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  

  
 Drivers and shells should be here Monday or Tuesday.Any tips would be appreciated greatly


----------



## purplesun

ira delphic said:


> I've read all the comparisons between MP vs. auglamour rx1 and I don't think it's reasonable to conclude that the auglamour rx1 is better. Cost and quality dont have a positive correlation necessarily when it comes to earbuds.



I would advise, when in doubt, go for the cheaper choice first, which is monk plus in this case. And if MP turns out to suit you well, consider that $20 saved on the rx1. But if you dislike MP and go on to rx1, just think of it as you paid a bit more for the rx1.

Personally, I am finding the warmth of MP may be too much for me, but not something that I can't use EQ to tune it lower for my ears. I think if paired with a clean & energetic source equipment, it should balance out the mp's warmth nicely.

Edit:just realized you weren't choosing between buying the 2 earbuds, so my first paragraph was me talking to the wind, sorry.


----------



## purplesun

brian coffey said:


> Cables came in today for my first DIY earbud project. Hope this is the right thread. Wife's not interested in this stuff so thought I'd post it here  .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Definitely interested! At the diy cables, not you wife - just to be clear.


----------



## boblauer

bloodypenguin said:


> To be honest, I REALLY am enjoying the *Green Ting* more and more.  Seems after some burn in, the bass has come up a bit, giving it a much fuller sound.  Clarity is still top notch and they seem to have perfect balanced drivers.  I wear mine with thick foam covers and comfort is quite wonderful.
> 
> 
> 
> --


 
 Good to know. Based on the circumstances when I saw them I bought them without regret. I'll let them burn in at least 48 hours before even using them.


----------



## vapman

@BloodyPenguin do you find the green ting to have a lesser sound than the expensive ting, or is it more a different sound? I may have asked this once long ago, sorry if i did.


----------



## Thomas De Brito

brian coffey said:


> Cables came in today for my first DIY earbud project. Hope this is the right thread. Wife's not interested in this stuff so thought I'd post it here
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hey is there a way to link where you got the cable? thank


----------



## Brian Coffey

thomas de brito said:


> Hey is there a way to link where you got the cable? thank


 
 I got them here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-headphone-cable-Single-crystal-copper-wires-14-core-X4-high-end-headphones-cable/32621146870.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.P9pS9V


----------



## Thomas De Brito

thanks, are the wires stripped already all you have to do is solder them. they look nice for the price, I might try fixing my westone 3 with them


----------



## jamesbdh

vapman said:


> Thanks for the advice... Ty2 sounds good but i think ill thin out my bud collection a bit first
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 same thing...

 DATE & TIME
 STATUS OF ITEM
 LOCATION
 September 19, 2016 , 1:46 pm
 Processed Through Facility
  
 ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS) 
 
   Your item has been processed through our facility in ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS) at 1:46 pm on September 19, 2016.


   
 Origin Post is Preparing Shipment
  
 September 15, 2016 , 11:28 am
 Processed Through Facility
 JAKARTA SOEKARNOHATTA AIRMAIL EO, INDONESIA
 September 15, 2016 , 11:24 am
 Processed Through Facility
 JAKARTA SOEKARNOHATTA AIRMAIL EO, INDONESIA
 September 14, 2016 , 2:42 pm
 Acceptance
 INDONESIA


----------



## Brian Coffey

thomas de brito said:


> thanks, are the wires stripped already all you have to do is solder them. they look nice for the price, I might try fixing my westone 3 with them


 
 Yes they are stripped and tinned. Cable has a pretty nice flexible feel to it as well and they are on sale now for $5.24 for 2 of them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  I didn't realize when I ordered that the price was for 2 so I may end up making another bud or replacing a Monk + cable with the other one.


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> @purplesun completely agreeing that the TY 32 is an impressive burner-inner. I can't think of too many others off the top of my head that have changed its character so noticably in a burn in period.


 

 I won't call them "impressive" burn-ins as am planning to buy more than a handful of them for my boy at Uni. It will be quite the job having 150 hours burn-in for each of them before sending to him. He's finishing his stash of cheapo TDK EB100, so this should be a big step up. And with the new L-plug TY Hi-Z, it will be close to perfect for him.
  
 I forgot to mention the earlier test was done of straight plug, will go edit that now.


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> I won't call them "impressive" burn-ins as am planning to buy more than a handful of them for my boy at Uni. It will be quite the job having 150 hours burn-in for each of them before sending to him. He's finishing his stash of cheapo TDK EB100, so this should be a big step up. And with the new L-plug TY Hi-Z, it will be close to perfect for him.
> 
> I forgot to mention the earlier test was done of straight plug, will go edit that now.


 

 I've never had a set of the TY 1.0's, I held off on the hype for quite a while, so i don't know how they compare soundwise.
  
 Using my dac's built in headphone amp, which i usually never use, now has a 5 way headphone splitter leaving my stuff playing 24/7, and my amp allows me to plug in another 2 things - 4 if i use Y splitters! so next to my computer is a bunch of buds wrapped up zip cases blasting away, and i leave em there for at least a full week  -  there's your 168 hours!
  
 edit: I think the TY 2.0's after their 168 hours have cygnus like soundstage, honestly


----------



## gwompki

I've had my VE Zen 2.0 for 2 weeks now. I have listened to them daily during that time from a variety of sources. It truly is an incredible sounding bud as long as you drive them with a proper source. What's odd is that their performance does not seem to be affected by sources with more power. For instance on my current phone they don't sound great, but on my old phone they really seem to shine. Surprisingly straight out of my laptop is also really great. So far my favorite combination has been out of my laptop into a little bear b4 amp. Initially I didn't like that amp with the Zen but after I switched back to the stock op amp it sounds great.

Overall the experience is very much like listening to a full sized open back senn. I own an hd598 and I much prefer the Zen. I owned an hd650 only briefly so I can't compare to those directly. However I only owned the 650 for a couple of weeks before I sold it. I have zero intention of getting rid of the Zen. 

It's definitely not a bass monster as many have said before. However, the soundstage is nice and wide and seems to be a fantastic partner of rock, jazz, drone, metal, punk, folk, etc. Basically most everything I have thrown at it. Excellent mids and mid bass. Not fatiguing at all. I listened for five hours straight at work one day without blinking. Definitely dont need foams for me and still very comfortable.

Love these things.


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> Using my dac's built in headphone amp, which i usually never use, now has a 5 way headphone splitter leaving my stuff playing 24/7, and my amp allows me to plug in another 2 things - 4 if i use Y splitters! so next to my computer is a bunch of buds wrapped up zip cases blasting away, and i leave em there for at least a full week  -  there's your 168 hours!


 
 I have a few more cheap earbuds coming in over the next 2-3 weeks to test out. After that, I will decide which earbud to bulk purchase. Probably a dozen of them. So, if all goes as planned, I should have my "burn-in farm" up & running in about 2 months time. That should be worth a picture or 2 for this thread


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> I have a few more cheap earbuds coming in over the next 2-3 weeks to test out. After that, I will decide which earbud to bulk purchase. Probably a dozen of them. So, if all goes as planned, I should have my "burn-in farm" up & running in about 2 months time. That should be worth a picture or 2 for this thread


 

 hehe, make sure you do! I posted pics of my "monk drawer" to the VE Monk thread... that's my cheap bud stash! most are new in packaging though, so not burned in yet, but i never found monk plus to change with burn in nearly as much as the older ones did (which still was not much)
  
 One bud I have really not given enough attention to, and might be my favorite of my last HCK purchase, the *Qian39.* Simple housing design, comfortable fit, giant bass presence and very relaxed treble compared to TY 32. I found the TY 32 to be a bit tiring when listening to talk radio or TV, thought of the Qian39's big warm sound, swapped it out and it was immediately great... highly rec'd for warm sig fans for a sub $10 bud.  The Qian39 has a L plug as well, a bit more robust than TY 32's.
  
 Going to get myself a RX-1 again soon, I miss its unique sig.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> @BloodyPenguin do you find the green ting to have a lesser sound than the expensive ting, or is it more a different sound? I may have asked this once long ago, sorry if i did.


 
  
 I can't remember if I tested the Green and Red Tings back to back before, but I might have.
  
 Here are a my quick thoughts:
  
 *I must note, that the difference between the sound on the two Tings is not that drastic, I can definitely tell they are from the same family*
  
  
*Green*:
  
 [Body] L Plug, Rubbery Cable, Chin Adjustment, Smaller Housings
  
 [Sound] Slightly U shaped, Good Detail, Fun Music Reproduction, Bit More Sub Bass
  
  
*Red*:
  
 [Body] Straight Plug, Smooth Cable, No Chin Adjustment
  
 [Sound] Great Neutral Mids, Balanced Tone, Bigger Soundstage, More Refined, Easier to drive
  
  

  
  
 Both have excellent build, with both having metal housings.
  
 I feel the Green Ting has changed more with burn in than the Red.
  
 Both are great earbuds, with only a small difference between signatures.
  
 --


----------



## vapman

Thanks a ton for that @BloodyPenguin. I'll take a chance on the Greens real soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 maybe the same time as the TY2?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> Thanks a ton for that @BloodyPenguin. I'll take a chance on the Greens real soon
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You really can't go wrong with either version of the Ting. 
  
  
 BTW, isn't it called the TKY2?
  
 --


----------



## mebaali

brian coffey said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the link, have ordered them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 With over 12 hours of straight burn-in (a mixture of songs at 80% volume), the below-used buds (with Senn MX400 shells) do sound improved (or maybe just my brain playing the tricks). Does anyone here know how to open the shells of these buds? (seems extremely tight fit, worried about damaging the driver if I tried to force open them)


----------



## golov17

Heat the hairdryer before the opening for the glue became softer


----------



## mebaali

golov17 said:


> Heat the hairdryer before the opening for the glue became softer


 
 Thanks Bro! Will try your suggestion


----------



## audio123

Rose Masya seems extremely interesting.


----------



## Decommo

Can anyone help me to find where I can purchase "舜仕01B (Extraordinary Sound ESP-01B)"?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

decommo said:


> Can anyone help me to find where I can purchase "舜仕01B (Extraordinary Sound ESP-01B)"?


 
  
 I'm a big fan of MisterTao:  http://mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/534019877589.html
  
 --


----------



## Decommo

bloodypenguin said:


> decommo said:
> 
> 
> > Can anyone help me to find where I can purchase "舜仕01B (Extraordinary Sound ESP-01B)"?
> ...




Thank you very much


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> @BloodyPenguin
> do you find the green ting to have a lesser sound than the expensive ting, or is it more a different sound? I may have asked this once long ago, sorry if i did.


Normal ting is far above that green ting.


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> Normal ting is far above that green ting.


 

 like monk vs zen, or not as big of a difference?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

music4mhell said:


> Normal ting is far above that green ting.


 
  
 I feel I would have agreed with you when I first got the Green Ting.  I even put them in storage and forgot about them for a while.  Though after time I have learned to really enjoy them.  While I agree the Red Ting is overall the better earbud and worth the extra money, I still think they Green Ting has a quality sound.
  
 Also could be that I am getting used to the sound of the Green version, either way, I just know I enjoy using them very much now.
  
 --


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Normal ting is far above that green ting.
> ...


i will say not as big difference...
but i will place red ting ahead of green ting easily


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I'm having fun taking photos tonight.
  
 Red Massdrop Monk Plus:
  

  
 --


----------



## luedriver

thinking about this tdk eb-5
  
 doubt that it will be value for money, but something is tempting me to buy it
  
has anyone had any experience with these, good or bad?


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> Using my dac's built in headphone amp, which i usually never use, now has a 5 way headphone splitter leaving my stuff playing 24/7, and my amp allows me to plug in another 2 things - 4 if i use Y splitters! so next to my computer is a bunch of buds wrapped up zip cases blasting away, and i leave em there for at least a full week  -  there's your 168 hours!


 
 But don't your neighbors complain yet about excessive earbuds buzzing noise coming from your apartment?


----------



## JASru

Well, I spent some time with Tp-16. What can I say so far? They are cool, yet strange. I listened them with much more volume than other. I guess 25% more it so. And like that's they are very detailed and balaced (compared to m+, rx-1 and Tomahawks). So far I would call them the most neutral out of there. On low volume they felt dull.
I will write again a few days. Let see if anything changes.


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> But don't your neighbors complain yet about excessive earbuds buzzing noise coming from your apartment?


 

 It's less of a problem than when I had dual Hafler DH-500's driving my stereo about half a year ago... THAT got me noise complaints... i'm sure they're grateful to just have to deal with the buds for now


----------



## Frederick Wang

jasru said:


> Well, I spent some time with Tp-16. What can I say so far? They are cool, yet strange. I listened them with much more volume than other. I guess 25% more it so. And like that's they are very detailed and balaced (compared to m+, rx-1 and Tomahawks). So far I would call them the most neutral out of there. On low volume they felt dull.
> I will write again a few days. Let see if anything changes.


 
 There is no measurements listed on its taobao page, are they on the package?


----------



## JASru

frederick wang said:


> There is no measurements listed on its taobao page, are they on the package?


Got them from Ali, so do not really know. They came in a simple branded case without any info.


----------



## Frederick Wang

Finally I decided to part ways with my VE Monk, the original version. From the start I had mixed views about it, but it came in handy from time to time, and very enjoyable under certain circumstances. Now I am looking for a "Monk upgrade", so to speak, with better clarity(the main grudge I hold for Monk), and can be plugged to cellphone and enjoy music right away. 
  
 From what I have read on the previous pages, TP16 seems a good choice? Or there are better recommendations? Appreciate your inputs.


----------



## Willber

frederick wang said:


> Finally I decided to part ways with my VE Monk, the original version. From the start I had mixed views about it, but it came in handy from time to time, and very enjoyable under certain circumstances. Now I am looking for a "Monk upgrade", so to speak, with better clarity(the main grudge I hold for Monk), and can be plugged to cellphone and enjoy music right away.
> 
> From what I have read on the previous pages, TP16 seems a good choice? Or there are better recommendations? Appreciate your inputs.


 
  
 I'm interested in budget earbuds. Because I use EQ on my PC (my main source) I'm not too interested in the initial signature as long as the basic elements are there to be adjusted. More important are soundstage, clarity and comfort. In this regard my preference order is:
  

Hi-Z 32 v2, Hi-Z 32 v1, SHE3800, Monk+, AG RX-1
  
 However, I have no EQ on my phone so the the signature is most important. In this case my preference is very different:
  

SHE3800, AG RX-1, Monk+, Hi-Z 32 v2, Hi-Z 32 v1
  
 I suggest you try the SHE3800 - at $4 there is not much to lose.
  
 HTH


----------



## vapman

frederick wang said:


> Finally I decided to part ways with my VE Monk, the original version. From the start I had mixed views about it, but it came in handy from time to time, and very enjoyable under certain circumstances. Now I am looking for a "Monk upgrade", so to speak, with better clarity(the main grudge I hold for Monk), and can be plugged to cellphone and enjoy music right away.
> 
> From what I have read on the previous pages, TP16 seems a good choice? Or there are better recommendations? Appreciate your inputs.




How much are you looking to spend though?


----------



## purplesun

frederick wang said:


> Finally I decided to part ways with my VE Monk, the original version. From the start I had mixed views about it, but it came in handy from time to time, and very enjoyable under certain circumstances. Now I am looking for a "Monk upgrade", so to speak, with better clarity(the main grudge I hold for Monk), and can be plugged to cellphone and enjoy music right away.
> 
> From what I have read on the previous pages, TP16 seems a good choice? Or there are better recommendations? Appreciate your inputs.


 

 TY Hi-Z 32 has a wider frequency response than MP. Noticeably stronger lower bass and treble. The warmth of MP has been dialled back on TY HI-Z. No problem driving it with smartphones that has reasonable volume output (eg: Galaxy Alpha & Xperia Z3C). IMHO, it has a more accessible sound signature than MP. And still only $5.


----------



## Frederick Wang

Thank you @Willber and @purplesun for the reply, I will do some research on Hi-Z 32 and SHE3800.

@vapman, I hope I can find some real gem in the sub 20 usd catagory, but, if the earbud is truely outstanding (like the fabled TM7), budget is reflexible.

That neans it：
1. Can be powered by cellphone
2. Jogging/workout friendly 
3. Spacious, precise, great positioning & imaging, true to life sound signature
4. Audibly a level above monk

Actually, as I re-think my demands, Rose Mojito, which I had for some time, serves my purpose quite well, even though with some minor drawbacks (it is not exactly "fidel" to my ears, for the price I have better choice outside earbud circle).

I will keep my antena up for a while.


----------



## purplesun

frederick wang said:


> 3. Spacious, precise, great positioning & imaging, true to life sound signature


 
 To my ears/equipment, TY Hi-Z is wider than MP, but MP has a deeper soundstage. MP also seem to have a better control on instrument positioning and imaging. But, just like you, MP's warmth is too much for me, and can intrude into my listening enjoyment (especially at lower volumes).
  
 But on certain performances, MP can be really special. I was just listening to Linda Ronstadt & Nelson Riddle Orchestra on MP - it was simply amazing. But, you know, that's not what kids listen to these days, so TY Hi-Z 32, IMO, will likely be the more popular, and probably better, choice earbud for most music genres available.''
  
 Note: If you get TY, make sure to burn-in for 3 to 4 days, at least, before using. It will worry you sick if you listen to it in the initial days before proper burn-in.


----------



## gwompki

Just curious what the general consensus is regarding monk vs monk plus? I spent a good amount of time with the monk plus prior to getting my original monk so I went backwards compared to many here. I find the monk plus to be very warm with narrow soundstage but I can listen to them for hours. 

The original seems to have a huge soundstage by comparison with a much more "exciting" sound.

To my ears they are really different creatures, but I definitely enjoy them both for different reasons. At this point after only spending one week with the original monk I would say that I prefer them. Wondering if I'm just not driving the plus properly.


----------



## vapman

The Monk Plus is a much warmer sound by comparison. I personally prefer the Monk Plus but of course there will always be people who like the sound of the originals better!


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> The Monk Plus is a much warmer sound by comparison. I personally prefer the Monk Plus but of course there will always be people who like the sound of the originals better!


 
 Maybe I should give the non-plus monk a try.
 Can I still buy it new?


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> Maybe I should give the non-plus monk a try.
> Can I still but it new?


 

 only with purchase of an asura 2.0 as a free gift
 no other way! except the classifieds...


----------



## audio123

vapman said:


> The Monk Plus is a much warmer sound by comparison. I personally prefer the Monk Plus but of course there will always be people who like the sound of the originals better!


candy is a warm monk+ tho


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> only with purchase of an asura 2.0 as a free gift
> no other way! except the classifieds...


 
 There must unknown forces at work here trying to tempt me towards an Asura! Excuse me while I salt my main doorways 
  
 Has anyone done a mod to take the monk plus sound back to monk?


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> There must unknown forces at work here trying to tempt me towards an Asura! Excuse me while I salt my main doorways
> 
> Has anyone done a mod to take the monk plus sound back to monk?


 

 Interesting idea but I've never seen or heard of anyone doing it. The MP driver runs at twice the impedance of the original, and is retuned, so I imagine you'd have to get to retuning it as well. I imagine if you were decent at tuning, you could get close enough without worrying about impedance.


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> Interesting idea but I've never seen or heard of anyone doing it. The MP driver runs at twice the impedance of the original, and is retuned, so I imagine you'd have to get to retuning it as well. I imagine if you were decent at tuning, you could get close enough without worrying about impedance.


 

 Then it won't be a simple tweak. Different impedances mean they having different coil windings. It will be a real pain to track down the original drivers. Way too much work for me. I will just stick with simple EQing, and/or look for some other earbuds instead.


----------



## ClieOS

It has somewhat covered in the past - VE changed OEM when they moved from Monk / Asura / Zen to Monk+ / Asura 2 / Zen 2. The two different generation of VE share really just their naming scheme.


----------



## ColonelBucket8

Hi,

Any iems that sound similar to rx1 with better bass and treble extensions?


----------



## music4mhell

colonelbucket8 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Any iems that sound similar to rx1 with better bass and treble extensions?


 
 This is only thread related to Earbuds 
 For IEMs you can find 1000 of thread, i urge you not to ask or discuss about IEMs on this thread, it hurts


----------



## Ira Delphic

colonelbucket8 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Any iems that sound similar to rx1 with better bass and treble extensions?



Did you mean earbuds instead of iem?


----------



## ColonelBucket8

ira delphic said:


> Did you mean earbuds instead of iem?



I mean iems


----------



## mebaali

colonelbucket8 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Any iems that sound similar to rx1 with better bass and treble extensions?


 
 Check out the impressions on **** 4in1 or Trinity Vyrus (might be what you are looking for)


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> Sifu you planning on trying the Masya?


 
  
 A warning to anyone interested in Rose Masya - *DO NOT BUY IT FOR NOW.*
  
 Let just said that the build quality is really questionable.
  
 p/s: Will be getting a replacement - hopefully what I got is no more than a lemon.


----------



## music4mhell

At las the wait is over.
 Got the Musicmaker Dual driver


----------



## ColonelBucket8

mebaali said:


> Check out the impressions on **** 4in1 or Trinity Vyrus (might be what you are looking for)


 

 Thank you. Will check them out


----------



## JASru

music4mhell said:


> At las the wait is over.
> Got the Musicmaker Dual driver


 
 Congrats! Can we expect impressions in a few days?
 They seem to be very interesting


----------



## music4mhell

jasru said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > At las the wait is over.
> ...


 
 I can give some early impressions.
 It has everything perfect except the FIT and BASS.
 The size is Huge, and my ears are not big. Anyways i can manage with that.
 But out of box, i don't feel the bass much, even i will say the Bass is less than Ting even.
  
  
 I hope, after some hours of Burn, i will get better bass. 
  
 EDIT : I got RX-1 as a goody with this earbud


----------



## JASru

TP-16 are awesome. 
 They need some power ( no amp needed though) to shine, but they are really underrated judging by sales count where they are sold.
 For my ears they are really outperforming Tomahawk. I do not regret buying it, but for now it is redundant.
 They are ridiculously balanced. They have decent range and a very casual shell, which makes it easy to get foams and hooks for your taste.
 Gonna order one TP-16 more when my wallet gets some fat back.


----------



## JASru

Has anyone tried  Rock Mucu?
 Rock made decent (not perfect, but really good) cheap IEMs, can't help but wonder how are their buds.


----------



## music4mhell

jasru said:


> Has anyone tried  Rock Mucu?
> Rock made decent (not perfect, but really good) cheap IEMs, can't help but wonder how are their buds.


 
 I have ordered Rock Mucu, it's on the way 
 I thought of using it with my mobile while driving, as it's with Mic.
  
 But i think it can't beat my TP16 with Mic


----------



## Tomasz2D

clieos said:


> It has somewhat covered in the past - VE changed OEM when they moved from Monk / Asura / Zen to Monk+ / Asura 2 / Zen 2. The two different generation of VE share really just their naming scheme.


 
 Tai, do you know anything more (or know and can share) about carrent OEM for VE ? I mean, at least part of the story behind "bug guy", Seahf and TY buds we already know but how about present OEM? Do they make any other earbuds models that are sold under different names apart from VE?


----------



## Frederick Wang

Ok, i think my search now narrows down to tp16 and she3800, would someone who has both care to make a comparison?


----------



## teston

clieos said:


> A warning to anyone interested in Rose Masya - *[COLOR=FF0000]DO NOT BUY IT FOR NOW[/COLOR].*
> 
> Let just said that the build quality is really questionable.
> 
> [rule]p/s: Will be getting a replacement - hopefully what I got is no more than a lemon.



I believe you ClieOS.
I have strong feeling for earbuds that said are tuned for vocal. Waiting for more impressions on the Masya.


----------



## JASru

frederick wang said:


> Ok, i think my search now narrows down to tp16 and she3800, would someone who has both care to make a comparison?


 
 Please note that both of them are not water/sweatproof. The price of 3800 may help consider it expendable, but TP16 costs seriously more.
 If Rock Mucu sounds well - which is mistery for now - this may be a good choice for sport activities.


----------



## Frederick Wang

I have been taking Monk out for running for about 1 year, and it turned out fine, I guess sweat doesn't come down to my ear canals much. I will take the chance.


----------



## ClieOS

tomasz2d said:


> Tai, do you know anything more (or know and can share) about carrent OEM for VE ? I mean, at least part of the story behind "bug guy", Seahf and TY buds we already know but how about present OEM? Do they make any other earbuds models that are sold under different names apart from VE?


 
  
 Dunno who is the current OEM for VE. It isn't something VE will want to share with anyone either, I think.
  


teston said:


> I believe you ClieOS.
> I have strong feeling for earbuds that said are tuned for vocal. Waiting for more impressions on the Masya.


 
  
 You don't have to guess, Masya is indeed tuned for mainstream music and more of a generalist, rather than a specialist like Mojito. As far as SQ goes, I am quite impressed actually. If it isn't for build quality issue, I would have no problem recommend it.


----------



## kurtextrem

clieos said:


> You don't have to guess, Masya is indeed tuned for mainstream music and more of a generalist, rather than a specialist like Mojito. As far as SQ goes, I am quite impressed actually. If it isn't for build quality issue, I would have no problem recommend it.


 
 and the 3d soundstage (for gaming), is it good?


----------



## Saoshyant

Hmm, the new Rose might be on my shopping list


----------



## ClieOS

kurtextrem said:


> and the 3d soundstage (for gaming), is it good?


 
  
 Above average but nothing top notch. Soundstage and vocal generally can't be both good at the same time. However, do note that I don't game much, nor do i use earbuds for gaming.
  


saoshyant said:


> Hmm, the new Rose might be on my shopping list


 
  
 ... and you should read this.


----------



## Saoshyant

ClieOS I saw your post earlier, and will either wait to see if it's a fluke, or if the Masya has too many QC issues. I'm still hoping it can replace Cygnus.


----------



## AkashS04

What is the difference between Monk and Monk+? Is Monk+ with more Warmness and bass and also good details?


----------



## kurtextrem

clieos said:


> Above average but nothing top notch. Soundstage and vocal generally can't be both good at the same time. However, do note that I don't game much, nor do i use earbuds for gaming.
> 
> 
> ... and you should read this.


 
 Hm, can you compare to Cygnus / Asura 2 / Zen 2? For example, Zen 2 sounds similar to open headphones. What does Masya sound like?


----------



## Willber

akashs04 said:


> What is the difference between Monk and Monk+? Is Monk+ with more Warmness and bass and also good details?


 
 The Monk is no longer available to buy from the supplier.


----------



## Ira Delphic

jasru said:


> TP-16 are awesome.
> They need some power ( no amp needed though) to shine, but they are really underrated judging by sales count where they are sold.
> 
> For my ears they are really outperforming Tomahawk. I do not regret buying it, but for now it is redundant.
> ...



Does an LG V10 drive the TP-16 effectively? How about a FiiO X1 (without amp) which im considering buying?


----------



## AkashS04

Thanks. Monl+ has Mic also? Or not?


----------



## kfarndog

clieos said:


> Dunno who is the current OEM for VE. It isn't something VE will want to share with anyone either, I think.
> 
> 
> You don't have to guess, Masya is indeed tuned for mainstream music and more of a generalist, rather than a specialist like Mojito. As far as SQ goes, I am quite impressed actually. If it isn't for build quality issue, I would have no problem recommend it.


 
 I keep waiting to jump into the Rose pool.  Hopefully they will get the QC issue straightened out eventually on the Masya and Mojito.


----------



## 290752 (Jun 9, 2021)

.


----------



## Willber

akashs04 said:


> Thanks. Monl+ has Mic also? Or not?


 
 Not.
 I think you asked that question a couple of weeks ago. It was suggested that you buy some cheap buds ($5 - eg Monk+, Hi-Z 32, SHE3800) to get some ideas of what you like. If you had done that you would almost have them by now! Repeating the same questions isn't going to help...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

kepler28nm said:


> I cant seem to find anything on google since earbuds=iem by most people.


 
  
 It really bothers me as well that you can't search by earbuds alone, that IEMs and earphones come up as well.  Earbud is just not a universal term for what we want it to be.
  
 I will say though, it does make it kind of like a treasure hunt to find interesting, newly discovered earbuds.


----------



## 290752 (Jun 9, 2021)

.


----------



## ClieOS

kurtextrem said:


> Hm, can you compare to Cygnus / Asura 2 / Zen 2? For example, Zen 2 sounds similar to open headphones. What does Masya sound like?


 
  
 Can't really say anything in detail till the new pair comes it, and it is currently national holidays in China thus it will take awhile.
  


kfarndog said:


> I keep waiting to jump into the Rose pool.  Hopefully they will get the QC issue straightened out eventually on the Masya and Mojito.


 
  
 Mojito is fine IMO. It is Masya that they need to improve upon.


----------



## vapman

Piggy backing on what clieos said, i have never heard of a DOA/defective mojito. Lets hope it was just an error during assembly or QC and clieos' replacement set will be all hunky dory.


----------



## vapman

willber said:


> Not.
> I think you asked that question a couple of weeks ago. It was suggested that you buy some cheap buds ($5 - eg Monk+, Hi-Z 32, SHE3800) to get some ideas of what you like. If you had done that you would almost have them by now! Repeating the same questions isn't going to help...




While you are absolutely correct on all fronts here, just noting that Monk with mic goes on sale starting today if i'm not mistaken. Just in time for me to put a replacement cable with mic on one of my monk plus...


----------



## Willber

bloodypenguin said:


> It really bothers me as well that you can't search by earbuds alone, that IEMs and earphones come up as well.  Earbud is just not a universal term for what we want it to be.


 
 When I do a google search for earbuds I choose 'Images' which can make things clearer.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

willber said:


> When I do a google search for earbuds I choose 'Images' which can make things clearer.


 
  
 Yes, very true, that helps a lot!


----------



## mochill

The 2nd Candy Event
(only on veclan.com, link below 
read the candy description
read the candy description
read the candy description
if u wanna an edge over everybody else)
same as last time, only 100~ and u can buy 1 or 2 units~
it is going to be live in 43 hours~
19:00 @ 5th Oct
for standard transparent (smoke) Monk Plus
the 1-click mic (working for both Android and iOS phones, tablet as long as they are CTIA standard, like all current phones are ) for 7USD
and iOS version for 10USD
here is the link for them
https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one…
https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one…
Cheers
Lee


----------



## fairx

willber said:


> Not.
> I think you asked that question a couple of weeks ago. It was suggested that you buy some cheap buds ($5 - eg Monk+, Hi-Z 32, SHE3800) to get some ideas of what you like. If you had done that you would almost have them by now! Repeating the same questions isn't going to help...



My best guess he's just trolling. If not then maybe he's one of those who usually flocks on gsmarena.


----------



## Willber

vapman said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Not.
> ...


 
  
 You're right, I noticed this after I posted (but couldn't be bothered to edit it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




):
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/783669/venture-electronics-ve-monk-monk-plus-a-5-earbud-that-taking-the-world-by-storm/5895#post_12908230


----------



## Willber

kepler28nm said:


> I'd hate to start a recommendation thread about earbuds since most idiots think these are IEMs for some odd reason. Please forgive my thread intrusion
> 
> What are some of the bass-heavy earbuds with microphone under 100? and 200? I'll be using this with my note 7. I currently have the akg k319 but it's missing a microphone.
> 
> I cant seem to find anything on google since earbuds=iem by most people.


 
  
 I have ordered these, they are supposed to have 'Super Bass':
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1More-Piston-Pod-Earbud-Headphones-Headset-Earphone-with-Remote-Mic-Retail-Box-for-Xiaomi-Note-Mi/32660452812.html
  
 Make sure they are EO320 not EO303 which are a cheaper earlier version. @haiku on here has them and says they are good.


----------



## JASru

mochill said:


> The 2nd Candy Event
> (only on veclan.com, link below
> read the candy description
> read the candy description
> ...


 
 Links are not working (at least 4 me)


----------



## Ira Delphic

jasru said:


> mochill said:
> 
> 
> > The 2nd Candy Event
> ...


 
  
  
 系统错误 = Sytem Error. Try again later. I ordered a few pairs of the MP mic version earlier from the link.


----------



## JASru

ira delphic said:


> 系统错误 = Sytem Error. Try again later. I ordered a few pairs of the MP mic version earlier.


 
 https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=10
  
 Link for Candy order with a timer.
 Hope I manage to get one.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

jasru said:


> https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=10
> 
> Link for Candy order with a timer.
> Hope I manage to get one.


 
  
 The "Buy Now" button is grayed out, I think they are all gone.  Darn, missed them again!  
  
 --


----------



## vapman

kepler28nm said:


> I'd hate to start a recommendation thread about earbuds since most idiots think these are IEMs for some odd reason. Please forgive my thread intrusion
> 
> 
> What are some of the bass-heavy earbuds with microphone under 100? and 200? I'll be using this with my note 7. I currently have the akg k319 but it's missing a microphone.
> ...


 

 All the good bass heavy ones I can think of have no mic 
  
 of course you could always get a Seahf/TY 150 ohm and put a cable with a mic on it, haha...


----------



## JASru

bloodypenguin said:


> The "Buy Now" button is grayed out, I think they are all gone.  Darn, missed them again!
> 
> --


 
 Chill , timer shows time till start, read the description on dat page =)


----------



## Ira Delphic

willber said:


> kepler28nm said:
> 
> 
> > I'd hate to start a recommendation thread about earbuds since most idiots think these are IEMs for some odd reason. Please forgive my thread intrusion
> ...


 
  
 The MP has gotten us spoiled. It's so good for the price (and just so good period) that we're chasing for something "better" without spending 10 or 20 times the cost of the MP. I'm starting to think that you can pay more and get better build quality and nice cables and _different_ sound, but for SQ it is a lateral move at best. This is for the earbuds that can be driven effectively with a flagship smart phone.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> All the good bass heavy ones I can think of have no mic
> 
> of course you could always get a Seahf/TY 150 ohm and put a cable with a mic on it, haha...


 
  
 Personally, the best bass I have heard in an earbud is from the simple Vido and it comes with a mic and volume control:  
  
https://world.tmall.com/item/520985842535.htm?id=520985842535
  
  
 (Shown with VE Foam Tips):


  
 --


----------



## BloodyPenguin

jasru said:


> Chill , timer shows time till start, read the description on dat page =)


 
  
 Ahhhhhh........  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 Reading was never my strong point......


----------



## vapman

Hmm, does the qian39 have a mic option? I don't think it did. Ill have to check out the vido...


----------



## Brian Coffey

Yay my drivers and shells came in today.

  I am assuming the red dots are the positive side. Any tips to check to make sure my cable is wired correctly?


----------



## sharkz

Use a meter with a buzz or beep continuity checker to ensure there are no shorts and everything is connected properly.


----------



## JASru

ira delphic said:


> Does an LG V10 drive the TP-16 effectively? How about a FiiO X1 (without amp) which im considering buying?


 I think yes. They are 32 Ohm presumably. But for me, to hear all details I had to raise volume about 20-25 percent higher than I need usually. With higher volume they were just as clear as on low, but more details were heard. Please note that it may be different for your tastes and hardware (I use AP100 with oversampling switched on). Btw Fioo X1 is rather good, especially for its price. 
I wonder if X1-2 is better or worse. I may need to buy it as a gift soon.


----------



## vapman

LG v10 is quite powerful and can handle high ohm earbuds without problem in my experience.
 However, the trick to kick it into high gain mode might be necessary when driving 400ohm or higher buds.


----------



## Ira Delphic

sharkz said:


> Use a meter with a buzz or beep continuity checker to ensure there are no shorts and everything is connected properly.


 
  
 I had some headphones that had some interesting audio artifacts. At first I thought I was unveiling defects I never noticed in the recording, and then suspected that the new cans were defective. The way that I nailed the problem was by using 
 http://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/
  
 In about a minute I found where the problem was. I assume it would be useful for the DIY earbud project.
  
 This DIY is a very cool I'll be following closely. I'm not skilled using a soldering iron so earbud manufactures have nothing to fear


----------



## Brian Coffey

ira delphic said:


> I had some headphones that had some interesting audio artifacts. At first I thought I was unveiling defects I never noticed in the recording, and then suspected that the new cans were defective. The way that I nailed the problem was by using
> http://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/
> 
> In about a minute I found where the problem was. I assume it would be useful for the DIY earbud project.
> ...


 
 Thanks for the info. Got them soldered up and they sound very nice....but the wire I purchased was backwards so my left bud is now my right...Lol. But with the foams on I've about decided not to re-solder them as it was a little tedious. It takes a good bit more to drive them than it does my Monk+ but was expected as these drivers are around 300 ohms. I'll pass along more info after burn-in and further listening.


----------



## jonsim86

clieos said:


> Can't really say anything in detail till the new pair comes it, and it is currently national holidays in China thus it will take awhile.
> 
> 
> Mojito is fine IMO. It is Masya that they need to improve upon.




Received the Mojitos with a slight defect. Purely cosmetic thou.. Everything else is great.


----------



## vapman

Anyone here recabled their own MX985?
  
 The stock cable drives me insane... great buds but oh man do I hate that cable...
  
 (btw, if anyone's wondering, Red De'Mun is a little better than Edimun V3 to me, lol...)


----------



## ClieOS

jonsim86 said:


> Received the Mojitos with a slight defect. Purely cosmetic thou.. Everything else is great.


 
  
 The back chromed housing of Mojito is repurposed from Panasonic HJ329, so it is not exactly 'new' and thus you can find cosmetic imperfection from time to time.


----------



## vapman

clieos said:


> The back chromed housing of Mojito is repurposed from Panasonic HJ329, so it is not exactly 'new' and thus you can find cosmetic imperfection from time to time.


 

 Very interesting, I see it has a decent place on your list, is it worth getting?


----------



## kinetic758

clieos said:


> The back chromed housing of Mojito is repurposed from Panasonic HJ329, so it is not exactly 'new' and thus you can find cosmetic imperfection from time to time.




I never knew that! The chrome housing on BOTH pairs of the Mojito I received had scratches on them.


----------



## kinetic758

clieos said:


> A warning to anyone interested in Rose Masya - *[COLOR=FF0000]DO NOT BUY IT FOR NOW[/COLOR].*
> 
> Let just said that the build quality is really questionable.
> 
> [rule]p/s: Will be getting a replacement - hopefully what I got is no more than a lemon.




Wow. That's quite unfortunate. Guess I'll see if I can cancel my order. I've always been apprehensive about the Rose build quality.

Care to share what issues you encountered with your first pair?


----------



## jonsim86

clieos said:


> The back chromed housing of Mojito is repurposed from Panasonic HJ329, so it is not exactly 'new' and thus you can find cosmetic imperfection from time to time.




Thats an interesting fun fact.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Just upgraded from AK Jr to AK70. The Jr's laggy interface was just too much.
  
 And I'm still on Cygnus 24/7. I noticed any and all foams that are white in colour get dirty with time though. May just switch to black foams.


----------



## jrazmar

Congrats Tayyab! Hope it goes well with your Cygnus. My Cygnus is still rocking solid as my main buddy everyday. I have posted all my other quality earbuds on sale including the Zen 2.0 and Edimun. I can live with the Shozy right now. I still prefer my dirty white foams on it than any other foams at my disposal. It just have something that makes the overall sound "more palpable".
  
 Next stop is Shozy BK.


----------



## music4mhell

jrazmar said:


> Congrats Tayyab! Hope it goes well with your Cygnus. My Cygnus is still rocking solid as my main buddy everyday. I have posted all my other quality earbuds on sale including the Zen 2.0 and Edimun. I can live with the Shozy right now. I still prefer my dirty white foams on it than any other foams at my disposal. It just have something that makes the overall sound "more palpable".
> 
> Next stop is Shozy BK.


 
 Try a dual driver like Mojito or TKY 2.
 The details are far above than normal earbuds


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> Just upgraded from AK Jr to AK70. The Jr's laggy interface was just too much.
> 
> And I'm still on Cygnus 24/7. I noticed any and all foams that are white in colour get dirty with time though. May just switch to black foams.


 

 How do you like the 70 vs the Jr? I still have not messed with any AK daps... I am waiting for my new CF adapter to arrive so I can CF mod my other iPod Mini and use that.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> How do you like the 70 vs the Jr? I still have not messed with any AK daps... I am waiting for my new CF adapter to arrive so I can CF mod my other iPod Mini and use that.


 
 still waiting for the AK70 to come in the mail. i literally just ordered it today.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

jrazmar said:


> Congrats Tayyab! Hope it goes well with your Cygnus. My Cygnus is still rocking solid as my main buddy everyday. I have posted all my other quality earbuds on sale including the Zen 2.0 and Edimun. I can live with the Shozy right now. I still prefer my dirty white foams on it than any other foams at my disposal. It just have something that makes the overall sound "more palpable".
> 
> Next stop is Shozy BK.


 
 im very interested in BK


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

music4mhell said:


> Try a dual driver like Mojito or TKY 2.
> The details are far above than normal earbuds


 
 Mojito is great for details and imaging and soundstage. But the recessed vocals make it sound unnatural. It has a digital tone to it. I find it's only good for instrumental (read: classical) music.
  
 Cygnus is a near perfect all-rounder.


----------



## ClieOS

vapman said:


> Very interesting, I see it has a decent place on your list, is it worth getting?


 
  
 They used to be half the current price on Taobao, but not they are harder to find and thus price goes up accordingly. I really won't bother with the current price.
  


kinetic758 said:


> Care to share what issues you encountered with your first pair?


 
  
 Overall finishing just isn't great and the pins socket broke off when I tried to remove the cable. While Rose's stuffs are somewhat hand-built in nature, Masya just looks rougher on the finishing as a whole.
  


jrazmar said:


> Next stop is Shozy BK.


 
  
 My pre-ordered BK will be shipped within the week. I guess mass production release won't be too far away either, probably before the end of Oct.


----------



## golov17

Who knows, where to buy kc08 foams?


----------



## jonsim86

Just wondering, does anyone prefer the std cable over the braided cable that comes with the mojito?


----------



## music4mhell

jonsim86 said:


> Just wondering, does anyone prefer the std cable over the braided cable that comes with the mojito?


 
 I like the cable which is not stiff.


----------



## jrazmar

clieos said:


> My prordered BK will be shipped within the week. I guess mass production release won't be too far away either, probably before the end of Oct.




ClieOS, how to preorder one and where? Hope it's not in Taobao only. Any link? 

Thanks!


----------



## golov17

jrazmar said:


> Any link?
> 
> Thanks!


 http://s.aliexpress.com/jiAVbMBV


----------



## ClieOS

jrazmar said:


> ClieOS, how to preorder one and where? Hope it's not in Taobao only. Any link?
> 
> Thanks!




Taobao only, unfortunately.


----------



## endia

hi, anyone familiar with these Tuna buds? looks interesting..
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tuna-CM6-Original-headset-heavy-bass-headpone-mobile-phone-earphones-HIFI-headset-noise-cancelling-music-stereo/32248306886.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.280.JQSGuF
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tuna-CM7-2016-New-Arrival-Original-3-5mm-ear-Earphones-HIFI-Metal-Stereo-Earphones-and-Headphones/32660571696.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000013.5.azndUO&scm=1007.13339.33317.0&pvid=bfa4d117-7e58-433e-acd9-dc70fc8ddc3f&tpp=1


----------



## music4mhell

endia said:


> hi, anyone familiar with these Tuna buds? looks interesting..
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tuna-CM6-Original-headset-heavy-bass-headpone-mobile-phone-earphones-HIFI-headset-noise-cancelling-music-stereo/32248306886.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.280.JQSGuF
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tuna-CM7-2016-New-Arrival-Original-3-5mm-ear-Earphones-HIFI-Metal-Stereo-Earphones-and-Headphones/32660571696.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000013.5.azndUO&scm=1007.13339.33317.0&pvid=bfa4d117-7e58-433e-acd9-dc70fc8ddc3f&tpp=1


 
 I have one with MIC, good value for money, like Remax earbud.


----------



## endia

music4mhell said:


> I have one with MIC, good value for money, like Remax earbud.


 
 thanks a lot, i'm gonna ordering one..


----------



## gwompki

brian coffey said:


> Thanks for the info. Got them soldered up and they sound very nice....but the wire I purchased was backwards so my left bud is now my right...Lol. But with the foams on I've about decided not to re-solder them as it was a little tedious. It takes a good bit more to drive them than it does my Monk+ but was expected as these drivers are around 300 ohms. I'll pass along more info after burn-in and further listening.




Did you already share where you bought the parts from? I'm very interested in tackling this sort of project.


----------



## Brian Coffey

gwompki said:


> Did you already share where you bought the parts from? I'm very interested in tackling this sort of project.




Driver came from here: mx500 driver 15.4mm speaker unit 300ohms send mx500 shell
 http://s.aliexpress.com/ARBvayYv 
(from AliExpress Android)

And cable : DIY ie800 headphone cable Single crystal copper wires, 14 core X4 high-end earphone cable
 http://s.aliexpress.com/uMr67RJR 
(from AliExpress Android)

The cable I received was wired backwards as in the left was the right and vice versa.


----------



## Ira Delphic

endia said:


> hi, anyone familiar with these Tuna buds? looks interesting..
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tuna-CM6-Original-headset-heavy-bass-headpone-mobile-phone-earphones-HIFI-headset-noise-cancelling-music-stereo/32248306886.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.280.JQSGuF
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tuna-CM7-2016-New-Arrival-Original-3-5mm-ear-Earphones-HIFI-Metal-Stereo-Earphones-and-Headphones/32660571696.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000013.5.azndUO&scm=1007.13339.33317.0&pvid=bfa4d117-7e58-433e-acd9-dc70fc8ddc3f&tpp=1




There was Tuna that resold/rebadged KZ IEMs. If you search around likely you can find those earbuds under different names.


----------



## endia

ira delphic said:


> There was Tuna that resold/rebadged KZ IEMs. If you search around likely you can find those earbuds under different names.


 
 thanks a lot for the info..


----------



## golov17

Soon new 1more earbuds


----------



## 93EXCivic

brian coffey said:


> Driver came from here: mx500 driver 15.4mm speaker unit 300ohms send mx500 shell
> http://s.aliexpress.com/ARBvayYv
> (from AliExpress Android)
> 
> ...


 

 I have been thinking about building some earbuds with those shells and drivers. Let us know how it sounds when you get it together.


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> Soon new 1more earbuds


link ?


----------



## ClieOS

music4mhell said:


> link ?


 
  
 There isn't any actual product page yet, AFAIK. But we do know it will be a dual dynamic and quite possibly going to be launched in a month or so.


----------



## gwompki

brian coffey said:


> Driver came from here: mx500 driver 15.4mm speaker unit 300ohms send mx500 shell
> http://s.aliexpress.com/ARBvayYv
> (from AliExpress Android)
> 
> ...


 
 I'm interested to hear how what your impressions are after listening for a while.  I think I'm going to tackle this project too, but I need to sell some gear first haha.  Thanks for sharing.  Looks like fun.


----------



## Willber

music4mhell said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > Soon new 1more earbuds
> ...


 
  
 They're beautiful.
 I little bit of info here:
  
 https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://news.stfw.ru/13232-1more-predstavila-tri-novye-audio-devajsa.html&prev=search


----------



## ClieOS

clieos said:


> There isn't any actual product page yet, AFAIK. But we do know it will be a *dual dynamic *and quite possibly going to be launched in a month or so.


 
  
 I stand corrected - it is actually going to be piezoceramic + dynamic hybrid.


----------



## rggz

brian coffey said:


> Driver came from here: mx500 driver 15.4mm speaker unit 300ohms send mx500 shell
> http://s.aliexpress.com/ARBvayYv
> (from AliExpress Android)
> 
> ...


 

 Cool! I have been "playing" with this driver over the last month and definitely you can tweak and have a lot of fun with them. Actually, I've changed the stock foam black to cotton "rings" (like that) and add a little piece of the cotton inside of the housing.

 The signature after these little mods is more smooth sound over crisp in stock form with a nice touch of warm without muddying the highs. After changing those things they're incredible good foamless as well, but unfortunately, I just can fit without problems this MX500 shell with foams, so donuts are working fine, though. 

 Some pictures: 1 2 (sorry for the logitech webcam quality I lost my bag with cell phone and camera traveling)


----------



## mochill

Damn, sounds good


----------



## Ira Delphic

rggz said:


> brian coffey said:
> 
> 
> > Driver came from here: mx500 driver 15.4mm speaker unit 300ohms send mx500 shell
> ...




Very cool! Does anyone know which commercially available earbuds use those drivers?


----------



## vapman

Man, how slow is Penon shipping via HK Air? A little disappointed in no epacket


----------



## endia

rggz said:


> Cool! I have been "playing" with this driver over the last month and definitely you can tweak and have a lot of fun with them. Actually, I've changed the stock foam black to cotton "rings" (like that) and add a little piece of the cotton inside of the housing.
> 
> 
> The signature after these little mods is more smooth sound over crisp in stock form with a nice touch of warm without muddying the highs. After changing those things they're incredible good foamless as well, but unfortunately, I just can fit without problems this MX500 shell with foams, so donuts are working fine, though.
> ...


how do you rank them among others you have? i'm intending to order some parts for diy.. thanks..

btw, can't see the pics (404 not found!).


----------



## Blueshound24

mochill said:


> The 2nd Candy Event
> (only on veclan.com, link below
> read the candy description
> read the candy description
> ...





I wonder why Chrome is not compatible with VE website? 



> "1st , plz do use ur PC (or MAC) with the latest Chrome browser~(so not ur phone , not ur tablet)"


----------



## Willber

endia said:


> > Some pictures: 1 2 (sorry for the logitech webcam quality I lost my bag with cell phone and camera traveling)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's strange, I can see them.


----------



## vapman

blueshound24 said:


> I wonder why Chrome is not compatible with VE website?
> 
> "1st , plz do use ur PC (or MAC) with the latest Chrome browser~(so not ur phone , not ur tablet)"


 

 That makes me think Chrome is the recommended browser for the VE website. My Firefox has a lot of script blocking plugins, so I have always used Chrome on the VE site and never had a problem.


----------



## Brian Coffey

rggz said:


> Cool! I have been "playing" with this driver over the last month and definitely you can tweak and have a lot of fun with them. Actually, I've changed the stock foam black to cotton "rings" (like that) and add a little piece of the cotton inside of the housing.
> 
> The signature after these little mods is more smooth sound over crisp in stock form with a nice touch of warm without muddying the highs. After changing those things they're incredible good foamless as well, but unfortunately, I just can fit without problems this MX500 shell with foams, so donuts are working fine, though.
> 
> Some pictures: 1 2 (sorry for the logitech webcam quality I lost my bag with cell phone and camera traveling)


 
 Thank you so much for that link. Mine have only been burning around 18 hours but can already tell I like them much more than my Monk+ or Auglamor RX-1s. I have Monk foams on them right now but will try the doughnuts to possibly improve it more. These were what I was hoping the Rx-1s would sound like. After more actual listening time I may try the tuning cotton pieces as well  Here is a picture of how mine turned out with Monk + thin foams on it.

  
 May build another with a little better quality cable, but really these are way beyond my expectations as is.


----------



## rggz

endia said:


> how do you rank them among others you have? i'm intending to order some parts for diy.. thanks..
> 
> btw, can't see the pics (404 not found!).


 

 Hard call. I'm not used ranking my stuff because I use my earbuds for different proposals/genres, also my inventory isn't that big (Cygnus, RX-1, Tomahawk, E100, DIYs pk2 and this 300Ohms driver), so I think ranks can fit better with the "all-arounder factor" in this case. My preference of sound signature: vocals realistic with a good extension on treble and bass punchy over boomy ("one-noted").
  
 Liking this type of sound my taste for bass is a bit different, my perception of bass is by instruments body not synth or hip-hop style... Then sometimes when I think the bass is powerful and good might for someone that isn't good enough.
  
 To my ears, this DIY 300 is crucial amping for best results and turn it in the best all-arounder and warm signature of my mini collection, the bass and body of instruments are really nice (after mods) and the sound is coherent in all spectrum. In second is Cygnus but bass doesn't go that deep and it's a bit brighter which is good for some genres and my taste, RX-1 lacks a bit of extension for my taste but the mids are top-notch when I get the right fit. 
  
 Definitely, if you have an amp which can handle this little guy worth a try! About the pictures seem normals to me.


----------



## Willber

> May build another with a little better quality cable, but really these are way beyond my expectations as is.


 
 Good work, keep us informed.


----------



## Brian Coffey

willber said:


> Good work, keep us informed.


 
 Thank you! I've actually managed to impress myself .Mine are a little warm which I like and the dynamic range is quite good I think. Has more bass without sounding boomy or hollow. I think these will be my all around usage phones. As noted in previous posts these are around 300 ohms and do really need an amp with some power to shine. Topping Nx2 doesn't cut it. Will try it with my Xudoo X-3 and report back on outcome. Still need more time to play with them before I say much more.


----------



## endia

rggz said:


> Hard call. I'm not used ranking my stuff because I use my earbuds for different proposals/genres, also my inventory isn't that big (Cygnus, RX-1, Tomahawk, E100, DIYs pk2 and this 300Ohms driver), so I think ranks can fit better with the "all-arounder factor" in this case. My preference of sound signature: vocals realistic with a good extension on treble and bass punchy over boomy ("one-noted").
> 
> 
> Liking this type of sound my taste for bass is a bit different, my perception of bass is by instruments body not synth or hip-hop style... Then sometimes when I think the bass is powerful and good might for someone that isn't good enough.
> ...



that is exactly what I want to hear, thanks a lot, much appreciated instead of a ranking..
your taste of sound is very similar to mine especially bass (is by instrument's body).. so I think I'm gonna love diy 300's sound since I built a dozen diy amps.
will try to see pics on desktop.
thanks..


----------



## vapman

I have actually been using my Cygnus more than anything else lately too. Sometimes I pick something with better treble extension and more sparkle instead, usually that is one of my old Sony or the Blox if not the Asura 2. My Cygnus cable is a nice teal green right now!
  
 Anyone got recommendations for Taobao only earbuds? I am about to get a Taobao order put togethr.


----------



## ozkan

brian coffey said:


> Thank you so much for that link. Mine have only been burning around 18 hours but can already tell I like them much more than my Monk+ or Auglamor RX-1s. I have Monk foams on them right now but will try the doughnuts to possibly improve it more. These were what I was hoping the Rx-1s would sound like. After more actual listening time I may try the tuning cotton pieces as well  Here is a picture of how mine turned out with Monk + thin foams on it.
> 
> 
> 
> May build another with a little better quality cable, but really these are way beyond my expectations as is.




You may also try to cover the vents with Blutac to improve bass and treble.


----------



## Brian Coffey

ozkan said:


> You may also try to cover the vents with Blutac to improve bass and treble.


 
 Thank you I knew you had mentioned something in the past but couldn't remember what it was called.


----------



## music4mhell

clieos said:


> clieos said:
> 
> 
> > There isn't any actual product page yet, AFAIK. But we do know it will be a *dual dynamic *and quite possibly going to be launched in a month or so.
> ...


 
 Superb, now we have a serious player in Earbud market, it seems 1more recognized the potential of earbud market.
 Thanks to you ClieOS, Earbuds are getting more famous day by day.


----------



## vapman

I have high hopes for that 1MORE, will be anxiously awaiting updates. I hope it does not suffer from unbalanced tuning like many DIY hybrids.
  
 Seems USPS is already preparing for the Penon packages so hopefully it is not far off. really want to hear that TY 650.


----------



## ClieOS

While it is nice that 1More is doing something difference, it is worth noting that I haven't heard anything from 1more that can be considered hi-end. As far as being a headphone maker in general, 1more still has some distance to go before it can be considered as an audiophile brand. Right now it is pretty much consumer grade.


----------



## music4mhell

clieos said:


> While it is nice that 1More is doing something difference, it is worth noting that I haven't heard anything from 1more that can be considered hi-end. As far as being a headphone maker in general, 1more still has some distance to go before it can be considered as an audiophile brand. Right now it is pretty much consumer grade.


 
 True, 1more has some nice expensive highend IEMs.
 Wish they make some expensive earbuds. I surely gonna buy.


----------



## tintheman

Hi everyone, just want to share some info, I bought the Vivo XE800 (iem) and liked it so much that I started looking for Vivo Flat style earbuds, I just received their Vivo X510 and it's only $4 but sound really good...I am not good at describing the sound signature like the expert in this forum but I will say it's at least as good as the RX1...if anyone got this too, could you share your opinion?
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-VIVO-X510-In-Ear-Headphones-Headset-High-Quality-Noise-Cancelling-Earphone-For-Vivo-For-Samsung/32637156668.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.k7CkSO


----------



## haiku

music4mhell said:


> True, 1more has some nice expensive highend IEMs.
> Wish they make some expensive earbuds. I surely gonna buy.


 

 My experience with earbuds in general is that they compress the sound too early when I turn up the volume. That´s why I mainly listen with iems these days. The 1More Piston is the only earbud for me atm that can deliver quality sound even at high volume levels. YMMV of course.


----------



## vapman

haiku said:


> My experience with earbuds in general is that they compress the sound too early when I turn up the volume. That´s why I mainly listen with iems these days. The 1More Piston is the only earbud for me atm that can deliver quality sound even at high volume levels. YMMV of course.


 

 do you have a cygnus? i find it quite good for louder listening...


----------



## haiku

vapman said:


> do you have a cygnus? i find it quite good for louder listening...


 
  

 My problem (if you will) atm is that everytime I listen with some other earphone than the KZ ATE, I immediately start to miss the powerfull bloomy subbass....


----------



## vapman

haiku said:


> My problem (if you will) atm is that everytime I listen with some other earphone than the KZ ATE, I immediately start to miss the powerfull bloomy subbass....


 
 I have a huge sub bass EQ boost for all my earbuds or else I would go crazy from bass withdrawals.


----------



## haiku

vapman said:


> I have a huge sub bass EQ boost for all my earbuds or else I would go crazy from bass withdrawals.


 

 See?!
 Yeah, but unfortunately EQ is no option for me. I fiddled around with it for quite some time, but it doesn´t take long and I get headaches from bending the frequencies. Best option for me is still the Seahf LD-3.0 400Ohm if I want some decent subbass from an earbud.


----------



## golov17

haiku said:


> See?!
> Yeah, but unfortunately EQ is no option for me. I fiddled around with it for quite some time, but it doesn´t take long and I get headaches from bending the frequencies. Best option for me is still the Seahf LD-3.0 400Ohm if I want some decent subbass from an earbud.


kc08t have BIG sub-bass without EQ


----------



## Danneq

haiku said:


> See?!
> Yeah, but unfortunately EQ is no option for me. I fiddled around with it for quite some time, but it doesn´t take long and I get headaches from bending the frequencies. Best option for me is still the Seahf LD-3.0 400Ohm if I want some decent subbass from an earbud.


 

 Rockbox FTW! You can boost frequencies from 20Hz. I usually boost sub bass from 20Hz and then 2 or 3 more steps (usually around 40, 60 & finally around 80 Hz). I only boost a few Db, enough to make sub bass more present in the music. 

 I used to love EQing but now I prefer to just boost sub bass slightly to compensate either for bass roll off on my DAPs (such as the "famous" bass roll off on older Cowon DAPs - Rockbox has really done wonders for my Cowon X5), or the lack of bass on earbuds when you use them outside.

 Never could stand the feel of IEMs and I have always gotten a claustrophobic feel when using them. Plus earbuds can have a much more airy sound, which I love.


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> kc08t have BIG sub-bass without EQ


 


 Have you heard both KC08 and KC08T?

 From what I have read here I might like KC08 better than the T version...


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> Never could stand the feel of IEMs and I have always gotten a claustrophobic feel when using them. Plus earbuds can have a much more airy sound, which I love.


same


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> Have you heard both KCX08 and KC08T?
> 
> 
> From what I have read here I might like KC08 better than the T version...


only t, unfortunately  
PS. Since I live in the depths of Russia, I have nowhere to pre-listen to anything, I always buy blindly


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> only t, unfortunately
> PS. Since I live in the depths of Russia, I have nowhere to pre-listen to anything, I always buy blindly


 

 Well, I live close to the Swedish capital Stockholm, but I STILL have nowhere to pre-listen to earbuds. I can't even find a good pair of earbuds in a physical store. I buy everything online.
 The only time I can pre-listen is when I go to Japan (Yodobashi Camera or E-earphone in Akihabara)...


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > only t, unfortunately
> ...


 
 i m n India, no1 uses earbud in thsi country.
 People laugh at me when they see my earbuds, 
  
 Now you can understand my situation.


----------



## kartik7405

Just a opinion pool;all requested to please join.
 Just listen to this  Rock song and give some earbud suggestion which is nonfatiguing for this song and instrument separation also good.
  
 Link:-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smt7BquJJ7c


----------



## vapman

kartik7405 said:


> Just a opinion pool;all requested to please join.
> Just listen to this  Rock song and give some earbud suggestion which is nonfatiguing for this song and instrument separation also good.
> 
> Link:-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smt7BquJJ7c


 
  
 Where's the headbanging smiley? 
  
 i don't find the cygnus to be fatiguing when listening to stuff like this even though it is pretty energetic of a presentation so you may find it slighting fatiguing. Cant say for certain how you'd think of it. I am using donuts on my cygnus though.
  
 Asura 2.0 is more forward sounding and more sparkly treble but a bit less fatiguing I think.
  
 MX98s had great instrument separation but was pretty fatiguing.
  
 What buds do you already have man? Not sure how many i should be rec'ing if i don't know what you have haha.


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> i m n India, no1 uses earbud in thsi country.
> People laugh at me when they see my earbuds,
> 
> Now you can understand my situation.


 
 Same here man.
 well, if they're not apple earbuds, haha!
 My girlfriend laughs at me because she has seen all my headphone collection phases, and i've been stuck on nothing but earbuds for so long.
 Every time I get china mail - "more earbuds? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





"
  
 but hey- people's headphones and IEMs (gross!) get stolen all the time - who's ever stolen anyone's earbuds, huh? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 P.S. Another one with no place to pre-listen earbuds. I can go hear a HD800 or whatever anytime I want, but earbuds? yeah right.... i'd have to open an earbud store first!


----------



## Danneq

kartik7405 said:


> Just a opinion pool;all requested to please join.
> Just listen to this  Rock song and give some earbud suggestion which is nonfatiguing for this song and instrument separation also good.
> 
> Link:-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smt7BquJJ7c


 

 Judas Priest is one of the many many bands I listen to.

 Cygnus is great for rock. I like Musicmaker Tomahawk for rock and metal although highs can become a bit "hot" sometimes. I use thick full foams to reduce that sharpness a bit.

 What is your budget?
  
  


vapman said:


> Same here man.
> well, if they're not apple earbuds, haha!
> My girlfriend laughs at me because she has seen all my headphone collection phases, and i've been stuck on nothing but earbuds for so long.
> Every time I get china mail - "more earbuds?
> ...


 

 My wife has also complained, especially about me buying "strange" Chinese brands. But she really liked Monk+ when I introduced it to her and now that's her go to earbud. I'm thinking about letting her hear TY Hi Z 32 but she prefers to only have one pair of earbuds at a time. She likes bass in her music and TY Hi Z might fulfill that better than Monk+, but on the other hand Monk+ has got a more neutral sound signature with slightly more fidelity than TY Hi Z.


----------



## kartik7405

vapman said:


> Where's the headbanging smiley?
> 
> i don't find the cygnus to be fatiguing when listening to stuff like this even though it is pretty energetic of a presentation so you may find it slighting fatiguing. Cant say for certain how you'd think of it. I am using donuts on my cygnus though.
> 
> ...


 
 i have Aglamour rx1 currently and Sheaf LD 3.0 300 ohm on the way.Do not  know how Sheaf will react to rock genere.


----------



## Danneq

kartik7405 said:


> i have Aglamour rx1 currently and Sheaf LD 3.0 300 ohm on the way.Do not  know how Sheaf will react to rock genere.


 


 I like a more wide soundstage and a more airy sound and while AuGlamour RX-1 has great mids I found the sound to be too intimate.

 You also might consider your source and synergy between the source and the earbuds...


----------



## vapman

kartik7405 said:


> i have Aglamour rx1 currently and Sheaf LD 3.0 300 ohm on the way.Do not  know how Sheaf will react to rock genere.


 

 I think you will like Seahf 300 ohm a lot. If RX1 is too fatiguing for you, cygnus might not be what you need...


----------



## vapman

Okay, screw it, I'm buying earbuds tonight again. Putting in a Mister Tao order and getting the green Ting.


----------



## Danneq

How about 


vapman said:


> I think you will like Seahf 300 ohm a lot. If RX1 is too fatiguing for you, cygnus might not be what you need...


 



 How about Hifiman ES100? That's certainly non fatiguing. I really like Astrotec Lyra. It's not the most detailed earbud but bass is good and the soundstage is pretty big and instrument separation is good. Also they are not at all fatiguing. But unfortunately the regular version is discontinued...


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> How about
> 
> 
> 
> *How about Hifiman ES100?* That's certainly non fatiguing. I really like Astrotec Lyra. It's not the most detailed earbud but bass is good and the soundstage is pretty big and instrument separation is good. Also they are not at all fatiguing. But unfortunately the regular version is discontinued...


 
 ES100 is a very good rec!
 All I have to say if you get it is to get it new from an authorized retailer so you get the warranty with it.
 If you'll need to use it, it'll be in the first few weeks.
  
 Only seems to be one seller left on Ali for green Tings - AK audio, they have 100% feedback thought - better than most stores we buy from... and theyve been open 3 years, surprised we've never encountered them before,but  will give it a shot, and i'll finally know how those damn green Tings sound! Cost me $35.55.


----------



## JASru

Well, unlike golov17, I live in Moscow,  but the problem persists - only 2 places where you can pre-listen to headphones that I am aware of, and only one of them provides IEMs, aaaand zero places that have buds. Well, the place with IEMs has Aurvana Air. That's it.
  
 So this place and ClieOS's list helped me a lot.
 Now I have RX-1, Tomahawk, TP-16 and Ty-150Ohm( latest addition). And have three more earbuds on the way - TY-32, C770(probably fake) and SHE3800.
  
 Thanks to you guys!
  
 BTW , I am planning to buy AIGO z6 to test its power ( before New Year) - do you know any cheap high-ohm bud to test its capabilities? The sound is inferior to testing, but it is better for signature to be known.


----------



## vapman

jasru said:


> Well, unlike golov17, I live in Moscow,  but the problem persists - only 2 places where you can pre-listen to headphones that I am aware of, and only one of them provides IEMs, aaaand zero places that have buds. Well, the place with IEMs has Aurvana Air. That's it.
> 
> So this place and ClieOS's list helped me a lot.
> Now I have RX-1, Tomahawk, TP-16 and Ty-150Ohm( latest addition). And have three more earbuds on the way - TY-32, C770(probably fake) and SHE3800.
> ...


 

 How do you like TP16 vs RX1, tomahawk and TY 150? I know all those but TP16 and still curious about it.


----------



## JASru

This eveining I will try to compare them. Right now I am trying out the TY-150. Reveived it yesterday, 5 minutes before post office got closed. 
 If postman's look could kill, I would have been in a plastic bag


----------



## vapman

Sorry for not shutting up about the TY Hi-Z 650, but does anyone other than the great ClieOS own a set of them yet?
 any impressions from anybody? just curious while i await delivery of mine...


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> Sorry for not shutting up about the TY Hi-Z 650, but does anyone other than the great ClieOS own a set of them yet?
> any impressions from anybody? just curious while i await delivery of mine...


 
 Mine is on the way, but it will take few more days


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> Okay, screw it, I'm buying earbuds tonight again. Putting in a Mister Tao order and getting the green Ting.


 
 Plz don't buy green ting, if u are serious go for RED.
 Green is thin sounding, you won't enjoy or hear more with that earbud


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> Plz don't buy green ting, if u are serious go for RED.
> Green is thin sounding, you won't enjoy or hear more with that earbud


 

 won't enjoy or hear more vs red Ting?
 i thought if i like green ting i would spend the money on red ting.


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Plz don't buy green ting, if u are serious go for RED.
> ...


 
 Why not directly go for RED Ting, it's really nice


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> Why not directly go for RED Ting, it's really nice


 

 The silver version of Ting is nice as well (same as red).


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Why not directly go for RED Ting, it's really nice
> ...


 
 I have the silver one only, i thought RED and silver are same, ain't it ?


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> I have the silver one only, i thought RED and silver are same, ain't it ?


 


 Yep!


----------



## golov17

Maybe try them?  
http://s.aliexpress.com/qUjeqyEZ


----------



## rggz

golov17 said:


> Maybe try them?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That product description:

 Quote:


> Middle Frequency, gloss and cohesion, Vocal tough,* almost no teeth*


 

 Is that a good thing? LOL!


----------



## Frederick Wang

> danneq said:
> 
> 
> > How about
> ...


 
 I find it quite strange ES100 doesn't get much attention here, the office thread accumulates only 9 pages in 2.5 years. 
 Stranger still, that earbud has quite polarizing feedbacks on Chinese forums.


----------



## JASru

frederick wang said:


> I find it quite strange ES100 doesn't get much attention here, the office thread accumulates only 9 pages in 2.5 years.
> Stranger still, that earbud has quite polarizing feedbacks on Chinese forums.


 
 I heard that build quality is terrific, so I passed this one. 
 The cable seems to be very hard to replace and not durable at all ( all of that according to forums, never owned one).


----------



## Saoshyant

The ES100 did have a bunch of QC issues, as many that tried it when it came out had to deal with the warranty.  Unfortunately Hifiman US wouldn't help out in that respect, so had to send it back to Penon to get that fixed.  It also really helps if you properly drive it, as it will sound quite underwhelming if it's underpowered.
  
 Edit:  Just bought Candy & 3.5mm TRRS Monk.  This way no matter what I do for my next dap, I'll have zero need to use an adapter to listen to one.


----------



## luedriver

just bought the monk plus candy
  
 or at least I hope I did, ordered them as soon as the timer stopped and for once paypal one button actually was useful


----------



## Frederick Wang

saoshyant said:


> The ES100 did have a bunch of QC issues, as many that tried it when it came out had to deal with the warranty.  Unfortunately Hifiman US wouldn't help out in that respect, so had to send it back to Penon to get that fixed.  It also really helps if you properly drive it, as it will sound quite underwhelming if it's underpowered.


 
 Ah, QC issues, typical Hifiman... 
 I am just too curious about it, I saw some earbud collectors saying that it is among the very best, and others, including ClieOS, are not very enthusiastic.
 I made a bid on one at a very reasonable price, just wanna know what the heck is going on.


----------



## JASru

Heh, and I am running so low on cash that I should skip it. 
 Hope Aurora would be worth it.
 Anyway, they should be making more candy once in a while. Hope so.


----------



## Frederick Wang

luedriver said:


> just bought the monk plus candy
> 
> or at least I hope I did, ordered them as soon as the timer stopped and for once paypal one button actually was useful


----------



## JASru

frederick wang said:


>


 
 Monk+ Candy is like a box of chocolate,  it won't last long for sound-hungry bunch


----------



## Saoshyant

frederick wang said:


> Ah, QC issues, typical Hifiman...
> I am just too curious about it, I saw some earbud collectors saying that it is among the very best, and others, including ClieOS, are not very enthusiastic.
> I made a bid on one at a very reasonable price, just wanna know what the heck is going on.




I still have mine, but it's been awhile. As far as Hifiman QC, the only other issue I had was the RE300 not being properly glued together, so not long after one side cleanly came apart.


----------



## JASru

saoshyant said:


> I still have mine, but it's been awhile. As far as Hifiman QC, the only other issue I had was the RE300 not being properly glued together, so not long after one side cleanly came apart.


 
 That''s why I tend to ignore their products. No matter the sound - if durability is insufficient and the quality is inconsistent - it makes no sense buying, imo.


----------



## Saoshyant

@JASru I've had no issues with my RE0, RE-ZERO, RE00, RE262, RE400, RE600, HE400, HM700 or Edition S.  I trust the company without question.  That reminds me, I still need to track down some other REs to complete the collection.


----------



## Frederick Wang

saoshyant said:


> I still have mine, but it's been awhile. As far as Hifiman QC, the only other issue I had was the RE300 not being properly glued together, so not long after one side cleanly came apart.


 
 I am not surprised, the early Hifiman products are notorious in this respect, including the very high-end ones. 
 Right now I am having HE400i roaring on my head, it is quite well made actually.


----------



## Danneq

I didn't notice any problem with my pair of Hifiman ES100, but @vapman who bought my pair soon noticed a buzzing sound in one of the drivers.
 Overall I thought ES100 had a good and neutral but slightly underwhelming sound. Astrotec Lyra is pretty close but more "exciting".


----------



## JASru

A question to TY owners: the 320 is more bassy than 150, right?
 Ain't that an overkill?


----------



## JASru

TY-150 is quite good with glitch-hop. They are quite fast. They L to R jumping sounds really fluid. Nice.

 They are quite close with TP-16 so far.
 TP-16 are more balanced, easier to drive, but have less depth.
 TY-150 on the other hand have too sharp peaks for my taste, but the depth (the perception of distance to instruments varies greatly) is really good.
  
 If you wonder, what I call sharp peaks - get Daft Punk's "Harder, better, faster, stronger" (Cryptex Reglitch would do even better) and get stabbed into ears by "...makes us...". It isn't deadly, but not comfortable at all. It is same as with Tomahawk - this kind of sound distortion is appearing in some compositions maybe once or twice, but it completely ruins the experience.
 Maybe it is the recordings quality to blame or, perhaps, my own ears.
  
 Nevertheless, the way the 150's deal with echoe-like sounds is really nice - try "Our Demons" by Glitch Mob, the intro is awesome with 150's depth. 
  
 I would call  TP-16 still better as an all-rounder from cheapo category, but 150's are worth mentioning for sure.
  
 edit: braided cable looks fancy =)


----------



## luedriver

frederick wang said:


>


----------



## Frederick Wang

danneq said:


> My wife has also complained, especially about me buying "strange" Chinese brands. But she really liked Monk+ when I introduced it to her and now that's her go to earbud. I'm thinking about letting her hear TY Hi Z 32 *but she prefers to only have one pair of earbuds at a time*...


 
 As a matter of fact, I have the same point of view, I call it consecutive earbud monogamy.


----------



## music4mhell

frederick wang said:


> danneq said:
> 
> 
> > My wife has also complained, especially about me buying "strange" Chinese brands. But she really liked Monk+ when I introduced it to her and now that's her go to earbud. I'm thinking about letting her hear TY Hi Z 32 but she prefers to only have one pair of earbuds at a time...
> ...


 
 I don't know why, i always enjoy more while listening to Monk+ than TY 32.


----------



## Danneq

frederick wang said:


> As a matter of fact, I have the same point of view, I call it consecutive earbud monogamy.


 


 And I have my own earbud harem...


----------



## ld100

I had candy in my browser. Had red button. And then it was gone. Fraction of a second... What??


----------



## music4mhell

ld100 said:


> I had candy in my browser. Had red button. And then it was gone. Fraction of a second... What??


 
 What's so fuss abt this candy Monk+ ?
 Is it better than normal Monk+ ? or it's just a hype ?


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> What's so fuss abt this candy Monk+ ?
> Is it better than normal Monk+ ? or it's just a hype ?


 

 Very limited edition of a cheap and popular earbud. I remember it was almost the same with I bought my Blox TM7 in 2012 (although they cost $148 with shipping). Small batches of limited edition earbuds that have good reputation can become quite hyped and sell out fast...


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > What's so fuss abt this candy Monk+ ?
> ...


 
 Do you think there will be any sound quality difference between these 2 ?
 Stock vs Candy ?


----------



## audio123

music4mhell said:


> Do you think there will be any sound quality difference between these 2 ?
> Stock vs Candy ?


 

 the candy is a balance between monk and monk+


----------



## music4mhell

audio123 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Do you think there will be any sound quality difference between these 2 ?
> ...


 
 So there is difference, now i am tempted to buy


----------



## Saoshyant

I've been told Candy is the same as Plus, just quite colorful.


----------



## audio123

saoshyant said:


> I've been told Candy is the same as Plus, just quite colorful.


 

 it is different. you can ask Lee yourself


----------



## AkashS04

Any idea about Tuna-CM6 earbuds? How are they?


----------



## Saoshyant

audio123 said:


> it is different. you can ask Lee yourself




I trust Vapman's impression on the Candy. I'll find out if I agree soon enough.


----------



## golov17

akashs04 said:


> Any idea about Tuna-CM6 earbuds? How are they?


i like them foamless, good bass and vocal


----------



## Ira Delphic

townyj said:


> So i see the VSonic VSD3P is now available.. hmmmm. $39usd aint to bad. Hmmm


 
  
 I'm waiting for the guinea pigs...I mean early adopters to give them a spin! The uu2 are average at best...but hopefully Vsonic will deliver this time. I still love the GR07 color, but the ergonomics of the earbuds in quiet environment can't be beat!
  
 VSD3P specs
*Description*

Handmade, every pair is unique
VSONIC brand first Vice-flat earphones
High-quality diaphragm, 16mm high dynamic driver
Tri-band equalizer, suitable for popular, vocal
Bullet-proof wire, tensile and not winding
3.5mm gold-plated L-shaped two-channel plug
Fashion wearing way
Tri-frequency are balanced, excellent vocals, musical instruments clear, clean human voice. Dynamic is great. Sound full and bright, Smart and pleasant
Low-frequency: strong low-frequency, the sound level is good, thick, magnetic, low-frequency have a certain diving.
Middle Frequency, gloss and cohesion, Vocal tough, almost no teeth, near and far moderate, good appealing
High frequency, clear shape, accurate positioning,
Overall, the energy distribution is more concentrated in the high-frequency warm sound headphones. Clear and elegant oval sound field
  
*Specification*

Driver :16mm
Rated Impedance :32ohm+/-15%(at 1000Hz)
Sensitivity: 120dB/mW
Frequency response: 15hz-22000Hz
Distortion: <=2% (at 500Hz-1000Hz)
Channel difference: <=2dB (at 500Hz-1000Hz)
Rated Power: 10mw
Max. Power: 30mW
Plug: 3.5mm dual channel
Cable length :1.3M


----------



## AkashS04

I heard a lot abt Monk+. Is Tuna CM6 better than that? Or similar or what? Are they Warm also?


----------



## Tomasz2D

music4mhell said:


> Do you think there will be any sound quality difference between these 2 ?
> Stock vs Candy ?


 
 Candy is still Monk Plus and sounds like Monk Plus but http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/10275#post_12874999


----------



## ClieOS

akashs04 said:


> I heard a lot abt Monk+. Is Tuna CM6 better than that? Or similar or what? Are they Warm also?


 
  
 No offense, but at some point you just need to pick up a Monk+ and listen to it for yourself than to ask everyone how it compared to XXX again and again. Gathering opinion is fine and such, but they are just other people's opinion at the end - you'll never really understand how Monk+ sounds (or whether you actually agree on another person's opinion) until you have one in your ears...and consider the price, there is almost nothing to lose. I am only saying this because we have seen new comers from the past that were interested in a certain model but want to 'be safe' and keeps asking everyone on every related thread how that model compared to everything else - then only to realize after picking up the model that it is not really their cup of tea. Opinion isn't wrong but the matter of fact is no one here really know or share your listening taste - one person's lean could be another person's neutral, while one person's boomy bass could be another person's bass heaven. You will have to experience the actual sound to put real meaning into other's opinion. Asking for opinion is how we minimize risk of buying something we might not like, but trial and error is still ultimately how we find what we love (or not).


----------



## ClieOS

tomasz2d said:


> Candy is still Monk Plus and sounds like Monk Plus but http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/10275#post_12874999


 
  
 There are already those who are lucky enough to pick up a few pair only to jack up the price to resell it on eBay - I am not sure that is what Lee intended for the Candy.


----------



## JASru

Folks, are there any difference between boarseman mx98 and mx98s aside from color?


----------



## vapman

frederick wang said:


> Ah, QC issues, typical Hifiman...
> I am just too curious about it, I saw some earbud collectors saying that it is among the very best, and others, including ClieOS, are not very enthusiastic.
> I made a bid on one at a very reasonable price, just wanna know what the heck is going on.




I had one and the sound quality was astounding IMO, i really loved it. You really do need to treat them with care. No sub bass boosting allowed at all, nuh uh.

music4mhell the crowd who wants to believe it never listens when i say so... But... As the owner of 2 candy... Can't tell any difference with those and my normal monk! But they look awesome...


----------



## Frederick Wang

vapman said:


> I had one and the sound quality was astounding IMO, i really loved it. You really do need to treat them with care. No sub bass boosting allowed at all, nuh uh.


 
 Can you give a general comparison to Red De'mun?


----------



## vapman

frederick wang said:


> Can you give a general comparison to Red De'mun?




Sure!

The es100 is more neutral across all the frequencies but still has an engaging sound to it. It is very special and i like it. If you treat them with care they will be very rewarding.

The red demun has much more bass low end, nothing that bleeds into the mids as red demun's mids are very detailed and balanced. Treble reponse on both is very comparable. The es100 both have "honest" treble whereas the edimun v3 is definitely more sparkly treble.

I think you should go red demun if the extremely bass light nature of the es100 puts you off. And no you cant bass boost the es100, it'll get angry at you.


----------



## ld100

MusicMaker TP16
  
 Oh my! I am surprised! Very sweet and nice sounding right out of the box with no burn in. It is way more pleasant than my Tomahawk. Would be nice if they were not plastic. Basically if Tomahawk sounded like TP16. I wonder how they will sound after a day or two of burn in. It almost makes up for me waking up at 6.50 am to get on the Candy and still missing it without any reasonable explanation.


----------



## vapman

ld100 said:


> MusicMaker TP16
> 
> Oh my! I am surprised! Very sweet and nice sounding right out of the box with no burn in. It is way more pleasant than my Tomahawk. Would be nice if they were not plastic. Basically if Tomahawk sounded like TP16. I wonder how they will sound after a day or two of burn in. It almost makes up for me waking up at 6.50 am to get on the Candy and still missing it without any reasonable explanation.


 

 I was about to say "but I still haven't bought a musicmaker earbud!" oh except for that Green Ting the other night... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Glad to hear a good TP16 review from a fellow Tomahawk hater, definitely let us know your thoughts after a few days with it.


----------



## Expansion

I don't know who suggested these around here:
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/TY-Hi-Z-HP-32-32ohm-HiFi-Earbuds-Earphone/1994049_32676147271.html
  
TY Hi-Z 32ohm 2.0 (L-shaped plug)  
 But I bought a pair, following the hype. They arrived today, and they suck. Literally suck. 
 There's a boxy reverb that ruins everything. You cannot concentrate on anything else. That boxy reverb is right in your face.
  
 Don't bother with them. 
  
 I'm waiting for these to arrive:
 https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10005987/1460600-philips-she3800-3-5mm-earphone
  
 Hoping for something decent. After TY Hi-Z 32 and Mrice E100 disappointment. 
  
  
 Later Edit: The sound got much much better for TY Hi-Z 32 after letting them run for for a few couple of hours. They're not rubbish. 
 They sound clear, detailed, dynamic, just like Mrice E100, but maybe less harsh. However, I could not say that they have the type of sound that I'm looking for. 
  
 In conclusion, I'm still searching.


----------



## jant71

Got my Hi-Z 32 from Penon two weeks ago and no such thing with my pair. Maybe they are broken as I like mine better than the original Monk slightly. My impression of them agrees with quite a few of the others that came before so I think you are a bit out numbered and it seems off. They are solid and don't expect miracles for under $10 but no real flaws that ruin them like boxy or hollow sounds or that sort. Monk actually could have more of that with it's mid-bass with certain sources but none on my pair.


----------



## Willber

expansion said:


> I don't know who suggested these around here:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/TY-Hi-Z-HP-32-32ohm-HiFi-Earbuds-Earphone/1994049_32676147271.html
> 
> ...


 

 That's a shame, I think you must have got some dodgy ones. I have 4 pairs and all are excellent.
 Anyway, good luck with your SHE3800 - I have 3 of them and they are very good too.


----------



## 93EXCivic

expansion said:


> I don't know who suggested these around here:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/TY-Hi-Z-HP-32-32ohm-HiFi-Earbuds-Earphone/1994049_32676147271.html
> 
> ...


 

 I think you must have got a bad pair because while mine are not my favorites I wouldn't describe them how you did.


----------



## 93EXCivic

What is the most Grado-esque sounding earbud? Sub-$50 if possible.


----------



## purplesun

expansion said:


> But I bought a pair, following the hype. They arrived today, and they suck. Literally suck.
> There's a boxy reverb that ruins everything. You cannot concentrate on anything else. That boxy reverb is right in your face.


 
 Sounds almost like mine out of the box. But don't throw them in the drawer just yet. Plug them into something playing for 24/7 for 5 days, and try them again after that. You'll probably find them quite different after that.
  
 EDIT: Mine was pretty dire sounding all the way until day 4.


----------



## vapman

93excivic said:


> What is the most Grado-esque sounding earbud? Sub-$50 if possible.


 

 mx98s
  
 Also agreed on TY 32, almost threw them out on first listen, but got a lot better after a few days left to burn in.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Love how the AK70 looks (and sounds!) with the Cygnus


----------



## ld100

tayyab pirzada said:


> Love how the AK70 looks (and sounds!) with the Cygnus


 
  
 Tha is GREEEEEEN bro! Wow!


----------



## ld100

vapman said:


> I was about to say "but I still haven't bought a musicmaker earbud!" oh except for that Green Ting the other night...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 So far I agree with someone who said they remind them of Cygnus. Vocals are good, but there are some minor things that are not as good as Cygnus in terms of vocals. Instruments are very good and bass is there in a good amount. For under 20 dollars they are excellent. While I am not a burn in believer I do hope that there will be some changes in a few days. Tonewise I love them so far. Will keep you updated.


----------



## Townyj

Ok.. so after a week with the Red Demun i must admit i am getting annoyed with the fit slightly. My ears tend to suit the MX500 shell and cygnus/yuin shells quite nicely. Ive used the rubber rings from my ve expack to expand them slightly... its made the sound a little distant.


----------



## vapman

ld100 said:


> So far I agree with someone who said they remind them of Cygnus. Vocals are good, but there are some minor things that are not as good as Cygnus in terms of vocals. Instruments are very good and bass is there in a good amount. For under 20 dollars they are excellent. While I am not a burn in believer I do hope that there will be some changes in a few days. Tonewise I love them so far. Will keep you updated.


 

 Thanks, I forget, do you have the Boarseman mx98s? thats the other "cygnus mini" i know of.


----------



## jrazmar

I do hope that sooner, there will be a Cygnus challenger. For me, it just nailed it in terms of vocals and bass impact. Soundstage is also something unique and special given the intimate size it has, it still able to portray a perception of being open and transparent. Wonderful synergy with my P1. Without the Cygnus, I would have sold the Cowon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Still waiting for the TP16 and Seahf LD 3.0 320 to arrive. What a good year for great earbuds!


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

jrazmar said:


> I do hope that sooner, there will be a Cygnus challenger. For me, it just nailed it in terms of vocals and bass impact. Soundstage is also something unique and special given the intimate size it has, it still able to portray a perception of being open and transparent. Wonderful synergy with my P1. Without the Cygnus, I would have sold the Cowon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah I pretty much only use Cygnus now. Wait for the release of black Cygnus, Shozy BK, which is supposed to be an upgrade to Cygnus in every regard.


----------



## jrazmar

tayyab pirzada said:


> Yeah I pretty much only use Cygnus now. Wait for the release of black Cygnus, Shozy BK, which is supposed to be an upgrade to Cygnus in every regard.


 
  
 Yeah. I wrote to Penon to list it up on their website as ClieOS had confirmed that it's only available at Taobao currently which is impossible for me to access. Hopefully, it will be listed or maybe in AE soon. I will definitely buy it. The cable looks much better on the BK.


----------



## ld100

vapman said:


> Thanks, I forget, do you have the Boarseman mx98s? thats the other "cygnus mini" i know of.


 
  
 No I don't. I was torn between  TP16 and MX98S and based on what I read in this thread I went with TP16. For now... Do you have MX98S? You think they worth having for 30 bucks?
  
 I am very set on black Cygnus and still really want a double driver. Really tempted by MusicMaker TY2 double driver, but the luck of any reviews is stopping me... I am pretty sure a bunch of people already have them, but I have not seen any feedback on them. No positive or negative. Which is very strange. ClieOS rated them very positively, but he no longer describes his rating... Can anyone finally spill the beans on TY2 so I can spend my money? Or just sit back and wait for that mighty Cygnus upgrade in black...


----------



## vapman

ld100 i have also found the lack of commentary on the TY2 strange. However for the time being i am a little skeptical of multi driver units. Another reason id like to hear more about the TY2 before buying. Chinese stores love to advertise it as having awesome bass response but that means very little to me.

I too miss clieos' descriptions.

I have mx98s and think people going after that energetic mids oriented sound should consider it. I will probably pass mine onto someone when i get the chance and replace it with a different bud. It is not for everyone, at least not me personally.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

jrazmar said:


> Yeah. I wrote to Penon to list it up on their website as ClieOS had confirmed that it's only available at Taobao currently which is impossible for me to access. Hopefully, it will be listed or maybe in AE soon. I will definitely buy it. The cable looks much better on the BK.


 
 Any idea on similar foams to the stock foams on Cygnus?


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> Any idea on similar foams to the stock foams on Cygnus?




Hiegi donuts. Best foams you can possibly put on mx980/985 or Cygnus imo.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> Hiegi donuts. Best foams you can possibly put on mx980/985 or Cygnus imo.


 
 I use them. But the white donuts still get dirty over time. I'm thinking of just using black.


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> I use them. But the white donuts still get dirty over time. I'm thinking of just using black.


 

 I have seen Penon sell black versions of the Hiegi foams but under a different brand name, i can't confirm if there is any difference other than color, but they have the same packaging...


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> tayyab pirzada said:
> 
> 
> > I use them. But the white donuts still get dirty over time. I'm thinking of just using black.
> ...


 
 I found no difference in both quality or thickness..
 I have all the foams which Penon sells


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> I use them. But the white donuts still get dirty over time. I'm thinking of just using black.


 Black Hiegi


----------



## JASru

ld100 said:


> MusicMaker TP16
> 
> Oh my! I am surprised! Very sweet and nice sounding right out of the box with no burn in. It is way more pleasant than my Tomahawk. Would be nice if they were not plastic. Basically if Tomahawk sounded like TP16. I wonder how they will sound after a day or two of burn in. It almost makes up for me waking up at 6.50 am to get on the Candy and still missing it without any reasonable explanation.


High five! TP-16 really excels Tomahawks in everything, but the build quality, imo. Btw, they did put inside quite the strong magnets.


----------



## vapman

You guys are making me regret not buying the TP16! I'm catching up though, my Green Ting just shipped. (yes I will get the Red Ting if I like the signature!)
  
 What's everybody's most used bud lately? I used to give the Monk 90% of my listening time at least, but for the last month at least, it's been at least 90% Cygnus with everything else getting an occasional listen.
  
 BTW, what's up with these HCK branded earbuds that seem to use the black Cygnus shell?


----------



## golov17

VX Pro.. last time


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> VX Pro.. last time


 

 hows bass & soundstage?


----------



## JASru

I plan to get Ting and VX, too.
  
 Not so sure about MX98s, Cygnus and VE's higher tier.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> hows bass & soundstage?


not for bass lovers, Mojito sig, but brighter and better vocal for me


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> not for bass lovers, Mojito sig, but brighter and better vocal for me


 

 thanks, think  i might like it when i want a brighter earbud, or not enough vocal emphasis.


----------



## JASru

golov17 said:


> not for bass lovers, Mojito sig, but brighter and better vocal for me


 
 So it is like a massively improved RX-1?


----------



## golov17

jasru said:


> So it is like a massively improved RX-1?


absolutely


----------



## JASru

golov17 said:


> absolutely


 
 Ok, this would surely fit. I need an earbud for country and blues from time to time.


----------



## vapman

Gonna skip re-buying the RX1 and go straight to the VX. Thanks golov!!!


----------



## golov17

Well, I am 47 years old, and my hearing, may not be all right, but lately I often prefer the VX Pro vs Rose Mojito, lol 

Btw, price on Taobao 40-45 usd, as well


----------



## JASru

vapman said:


> Gonna skip re-buying the RX1 and go straight to the VX. Thanks golov!!!


 
 Wish I could do the same =) Got two RX-1 now. Well gonna put them in a stash for a while.
 Anyway I like RX-1 a lot for their style. They look fancy with grey foams.
  
  


golov17 said:


> Well, I am 47 years old, and my hearing, may not be all right, but lately I often prefer the VX Pro vs Rose Mojito, lol
> 
> Btw, price on Taobao 40-45 usd, as well


 
 Probably gonna get them on Ali. Standard shipping rules, at least for Moscow - two weeks at most till I get it.


----------



## jrazmar

tayyab pirzada said:


> Any idea on similar foams to the stock foams on Cygnus?


 
  
 I am on the search for the same and found none of my existing foams can give the same level of SQ as what the dirty ones I currently have on the Cygnus can give (this difference is very minute that might be negligible for others). I will continue to use the stock foams until I found one of the same quality.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Ok my Cygnus sounds a lot better with AK70 than AK Jr. Maybe it's the Cirrus Logic DAC rather than the Wolfson one as in the AK Jr. The sound is much more detailed, and bass/sub-bass is improved as well. Overall sounds cleaner and more neutral as well.


----------



## kurtextrem

jrazmar said:


> I am on the search for the same and found none of my existing foams can give the same level of SQ as what the dirty ones I currently have on the Cygnus can give (this difference is very minute that might be negligible for others). I will continue to use the stock foams until I found one of the same quality.


 
 I found the same. And I found out why. The stock foams have a tighter fit and are less thick. None of my foams came close, all have a thicker wall...


----------



## vapman

I like the thicker Hiegi foam donuts because the extra distance helps bass. I suppose you could use Monk EX pack donuts if you like it to be closer to your ear?


----------



## kurtextrem

vapman said:


> I like the thicker Hiegi foam donuts because the extra distance helps bass. I suppose you could use Monk EX pack donuts if you like it to be closer to your ear?


 
 Monk EX pack donuts are also thicker....
 I tried them all, but only with stock the fit is good. The thicker ones worsen the fit.


----------



## vapman

Sorry about that Kurt, don't know anything thinner than the MP thin foams,except maybe the dirt cheap ultra thin budget foams you can get 100 for under $1, then punch a hole in the middle?
  
 hey, anyone own both TY2 and VX Pro? i guess i really should get both, eventually....
  
 still gotta wait for TY 650 and Green Ting to arrive...


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> Sorry about that Kurt, don't know anything thinner than the MP thin foams,except maybe the dirt cheap ultra thin budget foams you can get 100 for under $1, then punch a hole in the middle?
> 
> hey, anyone own both TY2 and VX Pro? i guess i really should get both, eventually....
> 
> still gotta wait for TY 650 and Green Ting to arrive...


 
 I am thinking of buying Focal Elear  
 I feel earbuds can't replace the full side of canes, no matter how good is the earbud.
 What's your opinion as you have come back from Stax legacy ?


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> I am thinking of buying Focal Elear
> I feel earbuds can't replace the full side of canes, no matter how good is the earbud.
> What's your opinion as you have come back from Stax legacy ?


 

 I think you'll find I am biased, lol. When I joined this site over 10 years ago one of the first things I looked into was the high end Yuin earbuds.
  
 Sometimes I miss the clarity of Stax but I feel the Mojito does a great job of revealing a  comparable level of detail.
  
 Personally I don't like the sound of most over ear headphones. I also don't like IEMs much so my whole collection is earbuds plus two full size headphones, both JVC extreme basshead phones (SZ1000, SZ2000)
  
 to me I have never heard things like HD800, LCD, etc but I have heard a number of very good Stax electrostatic setups... and in my opinion, a good earbud with nice clarity and a good amp and DAC driving it, will give almost as great a listening experience as a very good electrostatic... note I am not saying it is just as detailed, or just as refined - it isn't, unless you have a Mojito or something equally good, even the MX985 isn't fast enough to be counted IMO. The electrostatic sound is incredibly quick. Most earbuds are not that fast the Mojito being a notable exception.
  
 The JVCs I have can not be beat for bass depth or impact, but they can not match the soundstage, clarity, or fine detailing of some of my better earbuds. I have had a lot of other over ears and on ears - dynamic, electrostatic, planar, and none of them really "did it" for me.
  
 Anyway, I also like the convenience of earbuds, and I liked IEMs more than full size headphones for the more direct and focused sound, but like others have said, earbuds have better soundstage/airier sound than IEMs, and I don't like the isolation of IEMs either. so earbuds are really ideal for me...
  
 The point of all this, I guess, is that it comes down to what is the ideal sound to you, and it may not be earbuds. Also, when you do find the "perfect" sound for you, it's easier to work backwards and find the cheaper gear that satisfies you most.
  
 edit: Your Mojito thru the Mojo is probably the closest you'd get to the sound of something like a Stax 323s and Lambda setup you could possibly imagine without actually being electrostatic.


----------



## jrazmar

kurtextrem said:


> I found the same. And I found out why. The stock foams have a tighter fit and are less thick. None of my foams came close, all have a thicker wall...


 
  
 I agree. Perhaps we can ask if Shozy can sell as separate the stock foams that come with the Cygnus. Anyone who have contact or relationship with the supplier?


----------



## JASru

Maybe it would be a good idea, to create a separate list of earbuds below 20 usd for beginners, with short description of signature. Not a ranking, but merely a list of models that were tested by community and proven to be a good start.
  
 I do understand that the sound perception differs a lot from person to person.
  
 I am writing this because such list would certainly help.
 When I first visited this thread, there was a round-up list with descriptions.
 With descriptions gone the list still helps a lot, but it has gotten less newbie friendly.


----------



## fairx

jasru said:


> Maybe it would be a good idea, to create a separate list of earbuds below 20 usd for beginners, with short description of signature. Not a ranking, but merely a list of models that were tested by community and proven to be a good start.
> 
> I do understand that the sound perception differs a lot from person to person.
> 
> ...


 
 everyone who's willing could list their earbud and short description. so people can understand others preferences. there's already best budget earbud thread so people can start there. @Tayyab Pirzada


----------



## vapman

I'll get something written up.
  
 I can't decide, VX pro or TY2


----------



## JASru

vapman said:


> I'll get something written up.
> 
> I can't decide, VX pro or TY2


 Flip a coin. It helps.


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> I'll get something written up.
> 
> I can't decide, VX pro or TY2


 
 Please don't buy TY2, it's huge, if you want i will post to you, you name the price.
  
 By the way thanks for your tips. I will follow your tips. But anyhow i am going to buy Focal ELEAR


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> Please don't buy TY2, it's huge, if you want i will post to you, you name the price.
> 
> By the way thanks for your tips. I will follow your tips. But anyhow i am going to buy Focal ELEAR


 

 nah, thanks for the offer, but i think it will be too big for me if you say this!
  
 so, i guess it's the Moondrop for me...


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Please don't buy TY2, it's huge, if you want i will post to you, you name the price.
> ...


 
 Your post count is 5555


----------



## 93EXCivic

> Originally Posted by *vapman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> What's everybody's most used bud lately? I used to give the Monk 90% of my listening time at least, but for the last month at least, it's been at least 90% Cygnus with everything else getting an occasional listen.


 
 T-Music V1 just slightly over the Monk +. Only other one I have is the Ty Hi-Z 32.
  
 But I have a T-Music V2 and two SHE3800s on the way (one for modding).
  
 I want to get a MX98 and build my own at some point in the not to distance future.


----------



## ld100

vapman said:


> I'll get something written up.
> 
> I can't decide, VX pro or TY2


 
  
 Get TY2 and let me borrow for a day or two... (You know I am just kidding...)


----------



## ClieOS

Those who have Edimun V3 might have noticed that it comes with customized red foam with 4 smaller holes. That gives it more or less a donut foam quality (that won't over-dampen treble) but without the downside of a looser fit which tends to make dunut foam falls out easily. While donut foam can be a life saver for certain earbuds from time to time, it isn't particularly suitable for MX500 style front cover (VE's, BugGuy's, etc) as this kind of cover don't have any sound vents near the center, but located closer to the outer edge - so they still get somewhat over dampened even with donut foam. Inspired by the Edimun V3 foam pad, I did some modification of my own to create the multi-holes foam pad that will work better with MX500 style earbuds. The holes are located closer to the edge and thus will expose some sound vents for more treble. It also has the upside of getting a tighter fit than donut foam. I won't say it is the perfect solution for every earbuds, but it does work better than donut foam on many occasion.
  

 Get yourself a leather belt hole puncher and punch the foam away - you won't actually punch a hole with the puncher, but it will leave a mark on the foam that you can tear away with your fingers easily. Push the foam slightly inward when punching and the hole will be closer to the edge - but don't get too close to the edge though, as you will want to leave around 3~4mm of space.
  

 Three to four holes are usually easier to do and three is my usual choice. Here is how they look compared to the foam on Edimun V3 (*in red)


----------



## golov17

In most cases, MP foams, give an advantage to the sound of many mx-housing earbuds, have you tried them?


----------



## Saoshyant

@golov17 That earbud looks like it glows in the dark...  does it...  does it glow?  Please say yes.


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> @golov17
> That earbud looks like it glows in the dark...  does it...  does it glow?  Please say yes.


 just bright colour


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> In most cases, MP foams, give an advantage to the sound of many mx-housing earbuds, have you tried them?


 
  
 Tried it and like it - but it can be a bit too thin for me from to time, and of course it is always good to have more option.


----------



## 93EXCivic

clieos said:


> Those who have Edimun V3 might have noticed that it comes with customized red foam with 4 smaller holes. That gives it more or less a donut foam quality (that won't over-dampen treble) but without the downside of a looser fit which tends to make dunut foam falls out easily. While donut foam can be a life saver for certain earbuds from time to time, it isn't particularly suitable for MX500 style front cover (VE's, BugGuy's, etc) as this kind of cover don't have any sound vents near the center, but located closer to the outer edge - so they still get somewhat over dampened even with donut foam. Inspired by the Edimun V3 foam pad, I did some modification of my own to create the multi-holes foam pad that will work better with MX500 style earbuds. The holes are located closer to the edge and thus will expose some sound vents for more treble. It also has the upside of getting a tighter fit than donut foam. I won't say it is the perfect solution for every earbuds, but it does work better than donut foam on many occasion.
> 
> Get yourself a leather belt hole puncher and punch the foam away - you won't actually punch a hole with the puncher, but it will leave a mark on the foam that you can tear away with your fingers easily. Push the foam slightly inward when punching and the hole will be closer to the edge - but don't get too close to the edge though, as you will want to leave around 3~4mm of space.


 
 Awesome tip! I already have one of those punches so I will give it a go.
  


golov17 said:


> In most cases, MP foams, give an advantage to the sound of many mx-housing earbuds, have you tried them?


 
 Personally for me, the MP foams don't have the best fit and even after a decent amount of use they are still itchy in my ears.


----------



## Ira Delphic

golov17 said:


> saoshyant said:
> 
> 
> > @golov17
> ...


 
  
 I have the newer version - Sennheiser MX 680 Adidas Sports. More of a bright yellow as opposed to lime green. I really like them for electronic music. With refurbs going for $10 on Ebay they're a solid deal. Very different sound than MP...


----------



## 93EXCivic

Anyone tried out the AKG K309 or K311?
  
 Bit of an AKG fanboy.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> Tried it and like it - but it can be a bit too thin for me from to time, and of course it is always good to have more option.


agree


----------



## sharkz

vapman said:


> I think you'll find I am biased, lol. When I joined this site over 10 years ago one of the first things I looked into was the high end Yuin earbuds.
> 
> Sometimes I miss the clarity of Stax but I feel the Mojito does a great job of revealing a  comparable level of detail.
> 
> ...


 
  
 See this thread is interesting to me as a study in how different peoples preferences are. I love my earbuds for work and the gym where they are small, unobtrusive, and I don't really have to worry about them. I also spend most of my waking time tied to my desk in my office. But just last night I fired my main system up at home and listened to some stuff through my full sized headphones and there isn't even a comparison for me. My humble HE-400s destroy even my better buds by no small margin. Everything about them is better. Granted they are being fed through several hundred dollars of amp and DAC instead of just my Shanling M5, but it still isn't a small margin of victory.

 Unlike others in this thread who seem happy looking for the perfect bud, for me earbuds will never be anything more than a bridge to listen to until I can get home to the real system. Just my two cents, but it shows how different people hear things.


----------



## golov17

Thailand continues to amaze! 70 Ohm earbuds Frigga DS1


----------



## 93EXCivic

What is the black stuff at the tip on those buds? It looks really uncomfortable...


----------



## Saoshyant

It looks like tar! At least they won't fall out


----------



## boblauer

vapman said:


> nah, thanks for the offer, but i think it will be too big for me if you say this!
> 
> so, i guess it's the Moondrop for me...


 
@vapman
 If you do get the MoonDrop once burned in and ready could you compare to Mojito? People have  said it's a mini version and at it's price it could be a good bargain. My only listen to Mojito was in an Airport where I noticed someone with one and he had no idea what it was, it was a gift from coworkers.


----------



## Ira Delphic

sharkz said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > I think you'll find I am biased, lol. When I joined this site over 10 years ago one of the first things I looked into was the high end Yuin earbuds.
> ...


 
  
 I like to listen to music at lower volume (to prevent hearing loss and I have a tough of tinnitus) so earbuds have limited use for my needs. They leak too much sound to use when walking in the city or when in the subway. Also don't seal out the sound for wearing when running. When flying - ditto. For all of these uses IEM's are the best option. For quieter environments, earbuds shine! I agree with the generalization that headphones have better sound than earbuds, BUT earbuds are so comfortable that I rarely use my full size cans.


----------



## 93EXCivic

ira delphic said:


> I like to listen to music at lower volume (to prevent hearing loss and I have a tough of tinnitus) so earbuds have limited use for my needs. They leak too much sound to use when walking in the city or when in the subway. Also don't seal out the sound for wearing when running. When flying - ditto. For all of these uses IEM's are the best option. For quieter environments, earbuds shine! I agree with the generalization that headphones have better sound than earbuds, BUT earbuds are so comfortable that I rarely use my full size cans.


 
 I am similar. I use earbuds laying in bed or in the hammock in the backyard or on the back porch. I have IEMs for exercise and traveling. Full size open cans for my home listen station. Full size closed cans for work.


----------



## mochill

golov17 said:


> Thailand continues to amaze! 70 Ohm earbuds Frigga DS1


are those wood


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

sharkz said:


> See this thread is interesting to me as a study in how different peoples preferences are. I love my earbuds for work and the gym where they are small, unobtrusive, and I don't really have to worry about them. I also spend most of my waking time tied to my desk in my office. But just last night I fired my main system up at home and listened to some stuff through my full sized headphones and there isn't even a comparison for me. My humble HE-400s destroy even my better buds by no small margin. Everything about them is better. Granted they are being fed through several hundred dollars of amp and DAC instead of just my Shanling M5, but it still isn't a small margin of victory.
> 
> 
> Unlike others in this thread who seem happy looking for the perfect bud, for me earbuds will never be anything more than a bridge to listen to until I can get home to the real system. Just my two cents, but it shows how different people hear things.




I agree. I use earbuds for computer use or when outside with my AK70 portable player. But at home when listening to music seriously I use HD600 full size cans and an amp.


----------



## vapman

boblauer said:


> @vapman
> 
> If you do get the MoonDrop once burned in and ready could you compare to Mojito? People have  said it's a mini version and at it's price it could be a good bargain. My only listen to Mojito was in an Airport where I noticed someone with one and he had no idea what it was, it was a gift from coworkers.




Sure thing, but where can i get a job where they give me TOTL earbuds ?!


----------



## gwompki

tayyab pirzada said:


> I agree. I use earbuds for computer use or when outside with my AK70 portable player. But at home when listening to music seriously I use HD600 full size cans and an amp.


 
 You were one of the main reasons I bought the Zen 2.0.  How do you feel the HD600 compares?  I hear they are supposed to be similar signature wise.  I have been considering picking up a set of those for home listening.  
  
 I really really love the Zen 2.0


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

gwompki said:


> You were one of the main reasons I bought the Zen 2.0.  How do you feel the HD600 compares?  I hear they are supposed to be similar signature wise.  I have been considering picking up a set of those for home listening.
> 
> I really really love the Zen 2.0




Yeah they sound very similar. But if I had to choose I would choose HD600.


----------



## Frederick Wang

Frontal panel seems to amaze even further...


----------



## Willber

jasru said:


> Maybe it would be a good idea, to create a separate list of earbuds below 20 usd for beginners, with short description of signature. Not a ranking, but merely a list of models that were tested by community and proven to be a good start.
> 
> I do understand that the sound perception differs a lot from person to person.
> 
> ...


 

 Perhaps it could go in here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds
  
 The suggested price in there appears to be $10 but it's not a firm rule.


----------



## boblauer

@vapman
 He was an Oracle sales person. So I guess if you worked for them or Google or Amazon maybe same culture. I'm lucky if my coworkers make coffee in the office.


----------



## Danneq

I do not think it's fair to compare full size headphones with earbuds. They are too different. IEMs or other portable ear- or headphones can be compared to earbuds, though.

 For me the motto is: "if I cannot use it outside to listen to music, it's not for me". This is why I mainly use earbuds, but also have two portable headphones (Audio Technica ES10 & Sennheiser HD25). Most often I pick earbuds, though. Not even the best earbuds are as full sounding as full size headphones. But in certain areas they can be pretty close (size of soundstage etc).

 And regarding earbuds and isolation... I have a weakness for clip-on earphones. If you all think that earbuds have bad isolation, you have clearly never tried clip-ons!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

danneq said:


> And regarding earbuds and isolation... I have a weakness for clip-on earphones. If you all think that earbuds have bad isolation, you have clearly never tried clip-ons!


 
  
 I love my KSC75s!  (Though I have headband modded mine, I don't like the clips).
  
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
 Back to Earbuds, I think I might have a few surprises coming in the next month or so.

 I hope to have a few exciting things to post in a bit...  secrets, secrets....   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 --


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

danneq said:


> I do not think it's fair to compare full size headphones with earbuds. They are too different. IEMs or other portable ear- or headphones can be compared to earbuds, though.
> 
> For me the motto is: "if I cannot use it outside to listen to music, it's not for me". This is why I mainly use earbuds, but also have two portable headphones (Audio Technica ES10 & Sennheiser HD25). Most often I pick earbuds, though. Not even the best earbuds are as full sounding as full size headphones. But in certain areas they can be pretty close (size of soundstage etc).
> 
> And regarding earbuds and isolation... I have a weakness for clip-on earphones. If you all think that earbuds have bad isolation, you have clearly never tried clip-ons!


 
 My Aurvana Air's have a bit of isolation for that reason. But I barely use them.


----------



## purplesun

jasru said:


> Maybe it would be a good idea, to create a separate list of earbuds below 20 usd for beginners, with short description of signature. Not a ranking, but merely a list of models that were tested by community and proven to be a good start.


 
  
 IMO, for beginners, I think monk plus is a great first earbud to get. It's cheap. It's most popular here. And, most importantly, it has quite a complex presentation that will serve to align the beginner's knowledge with what is being discussed about it, as well as on all other earbuds. Think of it as 10-years worth of listening experiences crammed inside a cheap earbud.
  
 Then, after monk plus' experience, you should be able to pinpoint the earbud sound that appeals to you, and get to it quickly with the help of the members here. Of course, if monk plus is the first and only earbud that appeal to you, then that's a pile of money saved.


----------



## gwompki

Is anyone aware of a thread dedicated to diy earbuds? I was considering starting one if not. There are so many drivers, shells, cables, etc available on Ali that I don't know anything about. I'm going to order parts to build yuin pk1 clone as well as the mx500 variant with 300 ohm drivers that others have posted about...Might be fun to have a separate thread to discuss just that sort of thing.


----------



## purplesun

gwompki said:


> Is anyone aware of a thread dedicated to diy earbuds? I was considering starting one if not. There are so many drivers, shells, cables, etc available on Ali that I don't know anything about. I'm going to order parts to build yuin pk1 clone as well as the mx500 variant with 300 ohm drivers that others have posted about...Might be fun to have a separate thread to discuss just that sort of thing.


 
  
 Yes, please do!
 I am hoping to cobble 1 together myself when my drivers (last item) finally reach me.
 Will post it up when I get it done & burned in.
 Should be loads of fun.


----------



## 93EXCivic

Got my SHE3800s in. They get a solid meh from me OOTB. Listening to Norah Jones' Come Away With Me with the SHE3800 sounds like someone put a blanket over the music compared to the Monk +. Clarity isn't even close. 

I will let them burn in and try some other foams but so far I am not impressed. 

Oh well they were cheap. I will try modifying the other pair.


----------



## Brian Coffey

gwompki said:


> Is anyone aware of a thread dedicated to diy earbuds? I was considering starting one if not. There are so many drivers, shells, cables, etc available on Ali that I don't know anything about. I'm going to order parts to build yuin pk1 clone as well as the mx500 variant with 300 ohm drivers that others have posted about...Might be fun to have a separate thread to discuss just that sort of thing.


 
 Sounds like a great idea


----------



## Raketen

gwompki said:


> Is anyone aware of a thread dedicated to diy earbuds? I was considering starting one if not. There are so many drivers, shells, cables, etc available on Ali that I don't know anything about. I'm going to order parts to build yuin pk1 clone as well as the mx500 variant with 300 ohm drivers that others have posted about...Might be fun to have a separate thread to discuss just that sort of thing.




I think I have seen earbuds on the Home Made IEM thread, they might be able to offer some advice, though mostly people doing BA IEMS from what I can tell, : http://www.head-fi.org/t/430688/home-made-iems

There is also a facebook group I saw mentioned here not long ago, dedicated to modding and making earbuds... I think it was called something like the Malaysian Earbud Lovers... if you go back into the 600's pages on this thread and find the conversation about why earbuds are most popular in southeast asia you might find it :veryevil:

either way would be cool to have its own thread too I guess!


----------



## boblauer

I think it would be great to,the a dog earned thread. Something I'd like to tackle one day.


----------



## Townyj

Got another pair of TP16s on the way  couldnt help myself with the price/performance.


----------



## music4mhell

townyj said:


> Got another pair of TP16s on the way
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I agree with you 100%.
 Best vale for money with good MIC also


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Curious observation: AK70 can drive Zen 2 without an external amp/dac...and very well too


----------



## Townyj

music4mhell said:


> I agree with you 100%.
> Best vale for money with good MIC also




Havent bought the mic version. Non mic both from Penon


----------



## vapman

I'd love to try the AK70 sometime. I am using an iPod Mini for the first time in a long time and find it to be an exceptional match for the Cygnus. soundstage is insanely good on this pairing.


----------



## JASru

townyj said:


> Got another pair of TP16s on the way  couldnt help myself with the price/performance.


 Same


----------



## dontcallmejan

Surprisingly, the benjie earbuds are good. Quite hard to drive though. Anyone else tried them?


----------



## ld100

townyj said:


> Got another pair of TP16s on the way
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I got mine yesterday and it is just way too good! Price to performance is unbelievable!


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> I'd love to try the AK70 sometime. I am using an iPod Mini for the first time in a long time and find it to be an exceptional match for the Cygnus. soundstage is insanely good on this pairing.


 

 I have to try that pairing on the iPod Mini you sent me! (Yes, I received it the other day and Vapman delivered over my expectations)

 BTW I rockboxed it yesterday. The first try something went wrong and Rockbox crashed when I tried to play music. So I had to reset it in iTunes. The second time it worked. It was late and I didn't have much time to listen to it but it sounded quite nice.
 13 years after I got my first MP3 player (a Creative Nomad Jukebox 3 in 2003), and having owned different models of the biggest brands, I finally own an iPod!

 Sorry for the OT, but I did refer to Cygnus in the first sentence...


----------



## JASru

What TY model is the closest to 150 from their higher Ohm range? 320?


----------



## vapman

@JASru the 400ohm i believe?
  
 Tp16 guys: what earbuds is it comparable to? Curious with all the recent praise and i like that it uses the mx500 shell.
  
 Well i was trying to decide what earbud paired best with the iPod Mini after going a little crazy remembering how sweet of a sound it has.
  
 Organized them from left to right in terms of cost. These are my 5 favorites (yes i had a LOT to go through) and some were very close like mx985:
  

Qian39 (under $10, very warm, smooth mids, nice big sub bass that doesn't bleed into mids)
Monk Candy ($10, great warm balanced sound, more detailed and refined sound than Qian39 but a little less fun)
Sony MDR-E838LP (90's model, scary close to Mx985 sound signature)
Shozy Cygnus (about $80, small bass but very warm sound and great mids presentation and detailing, soundstage)
Red De'Mun (built to order in Indonesia, ~$60 + shipping, warm smooth mids but far better treble and bass extension than Cygnus, *very different* sound from Edimun v3)
  

  
  
 So these are my five direct-from-DAP "winners" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 (edit: yeah... i know i didn't put the bottom on right.... lol)


----------



## JASru

400 , but not the s-version, right?


 Well I can compare it to Tomahawk,TY-150 and RX-1:
  
 1)16 VS Tomahawk - 16 is more delicate, little bit less bassy ( but not bassless) and a lot more balanced. The sound of Tomahawks is grainy. I can't deny the drive it provides, but when compared with others they proved worth listening to to only distortion-rich tracks (garage rock, sludge, doom, new rave, psychodelic rock), where its roughness proves to be a feature.
  
 2)16 VS 150 - 16 has less bass, but better highs. The depth and bass on TY-150 is much better. I would call them both pretty good options as for price/value ratio. 150 features good cabling, while 16's - not so much.
  
 3)16 VS RX-1 - RX-1 wins in mids. That's for sure. The highs are comparable on both with 16 being tiiiiiny bit better. Bass is a clear win by 16.
 Again - 16 is more balanced,  which makes it easier tolisten, when you listen to the mixed playlis, because you do not need to roll the earbuds everytime. But the build quality of RX-1 is super cool. Moreover the shells of rx-1 are tiny, which makes them the only choice for people with tiny ears.
  
 Please note, that I am a complete newbie, who is not proffecient in topic. All what is written is my humble opinion.
 p/s/Honestly, if you are using DAP, not a mobile phone w/o amp, I wouldn't recommend Tomahawk at all. TY-150 has better bass, staging and cabling.


----------



## vapman

jasru said:


> *400 , but not the s-version, right?*


 
 Correct


----------



## istlove

Vx pro is good but mine have flaw.
Because of metal housing, this conducts electricity. Very painful. Only mine?


----------



## golov17

istlove said:


> Vx pro is good but mine have flaw.
> Because of metal housing, this conducts electricity. Very painful. Only mine?


 no problems so far


----------



## ClieOS

istlove said:


> Vx pro is good but mine have flaw.
> Because of metal housing, this conducts electricity. Very painful. Only mine?


 
  
 No problem as well.


----------



## istlove

When you are charging device, is ok?
Thanks guys, I buy one more.


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, my Penon order finally arrived in the US, so hopefully I'll get to hear the Hi-Z 32 & TP16 soon.


----------



## JASru

saoshyant said:


> Well, my Penon order finally arrived in the US, so hopefully I'll get to hear the Hi-Z 32 & TP16 soon.


 
 My 32 is still not even in Russia =(

 Your impression of TP-16 would be very welcome.


----------



## golov17

istlove said:


> When you are charging device, is ok?


use Powerbank for this


----------



## Saoshyant

So, kind of off topic, but does anyone have a favorite case for their earbuds?  I think of all the cases I've used so far, the one included with Red Demun is my favorite, although it is more space consuming than most.


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> So, kind of off topic, but does anyone have a favorite case for their earbuds?  I think of all the cases I've used so far, the one included with Red Demun is my favorite, although it is more space consuming than most.


 http://s.aliexpress.com/ARJfU73A


----------



## JASru

small and robust (5cm in lenght)


----------



## 93EXCivic

saoshyant said:


> So, kind of off topic, but does anyone have a favorite case for their earbuds?  I think of all the cases I've used so far, the one included with Red Demun is my favorite, although it is more space consuming than most.


 

 This one. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Fashion-Earphone-Headphone-bag-Headphone-Carrying-Bag-Earbud-Carrying-Storage-Bag-Pouch-Hard-Case/32373594834.html?spm=2114.13010308.0.0.5aDFHs


----------



## music4mhell

rectangle headphones case Black EVA carry storage box Waterproof Shockproof Anti-Dust earphone Pouch for 450
 http://s.aliexpress.com/eu2267bm 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## magitka27

hello everybody !! internet sucks here so its hard to post almost evrything

 im enjoying my seahf 150ohm now and my radius stays in its pouch , its for more energetic sounds yet powerfull bass mode 
 the seahf now is my primary listening partner, but i cant listen well when my house / surrounding barks louder than my music

 im planning to buy the fiio e12 as my amplifier for IDR 900000 , includes shipment to my front door, i hope i dont find any funds problem so i can afford it next 2 weeks T.T
 i read somewhere about the topping nx3 is not powerfull enough to feed 300ohm buds, im facing dilemma now bcs the price gap between e12 and nx3 is near IDR 200000 XD

 from the specs alone, the e12 is far more powerfull, but i need to push the budget since i have not working yet +_+


----------



## Saoshyant

golov17 said:


> Thailand continues to amaze! 70 Ohm earbuds Frigga DS1




Did I read that correctly and they're asking $600 USD for the earbud, or was that a different currency?


----------



## Expansion

The sound got much much better for TY Hi-Z 32 after letting them run for for a few couple of hours. They're not rubbish. 
 They sound clear, detailed, dynamic, just like Mrice E100, but maybe less harsh. However, I could not say that they have the type of sound that I'm looking for. 
  
 In conclusion, I'm still searching.


----------



## golov17

http://revampacoustics.com/nuansa-a1/


----------



## Townyj

golov17 said:


> http://revampacoustics.com/nuansa-a1/




Wait what... that play time is massive! Also pretty powerful looking at those stats.


----------



## Willber

music4mhell said:


> rectangle headphones case Black EVA carry storage box Waterproof Shockproof Anti-Dust earphone Pouch for 450
> http://s.aliexpress.com/eu2267bm
> (from AliExpress Android)


 

 I bought a bunch of these, really cheap but work well:
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Fashion-KZ-High-End-In-Ear-Earphone-Headphone-Storage-Case-Bag-Earphone-Accessories-Earphones/32374501717.html


----------



## endia

i bought 7-8 different cases but this one is the best;
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-selling-NEW-Headphone-Earbud-Carrying-Storage-Bag-Pouch-Hard-Case-For-Earphone-1PC/32539158311.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.SPWkS3


----------



## golov17

townyj said:


> Wait what... that play time is massive! Also pretty powerful looking at those stats.


 from the creator Teri DAP 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/795394/indonesian-portable-dap-prototype-discussion-split-from-tera-player-thread


----------



## JASru

golov17 said:


> from the creator Teri DAP
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/795394/indonesian-portable-dap-prototype-discussion-split-from-tera-player-thread


 
 Where can you buy it? And how much is it?
  
 edit: I mean the AMP. The DAP is legendary and ultra rare now.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

endia said:


> i bought 7-8 different cases but this one is the best;
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-selling-NEW-Headphone-Earbud-Carrying-Storage-Bag-Pouch-Hard-Case-For-Earphone-1PC/32539158311.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.SPWkS3


 
  
 That is a good one, quite big as well.

  
  
 -----------------------------------------------------
  
 My favorite smaller case is this one, very thin and tough, plus it looks cool:
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Carbon-Fiber-Zipper-Headphones-Box-Earphone-Earbuds-Hard-Case-Trinketry-Storage-Carrying-Pouch-Bag-SD-Card/1945166_32654579503.html


----------



## Willber

> Originally Posted by *BloodyPenguin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> My favorite smaller case is this one, very thin and tough, plus it looks cool:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Carbon-Fiber-Zipper-Headphones-Box-Earphone-Earbuds-Hard-Case-Trinketry-Storage-Carrying-Pouch-Bag-SD-Card/1945166_32654579503.html


 
  
 That's the same as the one I posted but a little more expensive. Still cheap, though.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

willber said:


> That's the same as the one I posted but a little more expensive. Still cheap, though.


 
  
 Haa, oops, yes I see it now!  How did I miss that, it was like two post up!


----------



## Willber

bloodypenguin said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > That's the same as the one I posted but a little more expensive. Still cheap, though.
> ...


 
  
 Well, as usual your picture is better!


----------



## boblauer

jasru said:


> Where can you buy it? And how much is it?
> 
> edit: I mean the AMP. The DAP is legendary and ultra rare now.


 
 FYI the builder built something called Teri Player by I assume reverse engineering a Tera Player. So it's not that "legendary" player. This is his amp I guess he's producing now.


----------



## gwompki

Just started a DIY earbuds thread over on the DIY forum:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/822327/diy-earbuds
  
 Look forward to seeing some of you fine folks over there.


----------



## endia

bloodypenguin said:


> That is a good one, quite big as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 i have both, they have same footprints (75x75 mm), but former one just a bit taller (30 vs 40 mm)..


----------



## Raketen

townyj said:


> Wait what... that play time is massive! Also pretty powerful looking at those stats.




I think this isn't unusual for discrete component amps... my Picollo gets about the same & stuff like the Elekit HP02 etc...


----------



## JASru

boblauer said:


> FYI the builder built something called Teri Player by I assume reverse engineering a Tera Player. So it's not that "legendary" player. This is his amp I guess he's producing now.


 I meant exactly Teri , not Tera. It is limited to 60 units. That makes it a very rare thing.


----------



## boblauer

jasru said:


> I meant exactly Teri , not Tera. It is limited to 60 units. That makes it a very rare thing.


 
 It's just me the word legendary. I have a Rivera Fender Blues based  junior guitar amp at home from the late 70's. I think he made maybe a couple dozen. The newer Fender Hot Rod series sounds exactly the same blindly; but if legendary is defined by #produced then mine is but cost 5 times the Fender version. Anyhow sorry for off topic rant it's juts me and that word.  
  


raketen said:


> I think this isn't unusual for discrete component amps... my Picollo gets about the same & stuff like the Elekit HP02 etc...


 
 Count my ALO Rx Mark 1 in that list. I get at kind of play time from it.


----------



## vapman

expansion said:


> The sound got much much better for TY Hi-Z 32 after letting them run for for a few couple of hours. They're not rubbish.
> They sound clear, detailed, dynamic, just like Mrice E100, but maybe less harsh. However, I could not say that they have the type of sound that I'm looking for.
> 
> In conclusion, I'm still searching.




What are you looking for sound-wise in an earbud you're not getting from the ones you have?


----------



## Danneq

If you want a pair of earbuds with microphone, these might be a good option.

 I received a pair today. When I ordered them I didn't realize that it was with mic even if it said so in the title and in the photos you could see the TRRS connector. I cannot explain why I was so blind...

 I never listen to music from my cellphone, but still I can use them with my DAPs since an adapter was included. They cost a bit more than Monk+ or TY HiZ 32, but they are quite good. A good and balanced sound with enough bass and no too sharp highs (less tendency towards sharpness than TY HiZ 32).
 I'd say that overall they are sort of like a mix between Monk+ and TY HiZ 32. More towards a neutral sound like Monk+ but with some of the "funness" of TY HiZ 32.

 I bought them because I could recognize they were ERQU (Chinese brand). I think they are ERQU EQ300.

 Fit is pretty good in my ears. Actually a bit better than the standard MX400 housings.

 Still, since I compare them to Monk+ and Ty HiZ 32, you have to decide if they are worth $19. I think they are, but I just wish that I could have found a version without TRRS plug and mic. Well, the adapter works even if I prefer to not use such things...


----------



## Willber

danneq said:


> If you want a pair of earbuds with microphone, these might be a good option.
> 
> Still, since I compare them to Monk+ and Ty HiZ 32, you have to decide if they are worth $19.


 
 Does that propeller thing on the back whiz round? If so they would be worth the extra!


----------



## Danneq

willber said:


> Does that propeller thing on the back whiz round? If so they would be worth the extra!


 


 Yep. They sure help to propel the sound into your ears.

 Whoa! What a rush!


----------



## Willber

danneq said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Does that propeller thing on the back whiz round? If so they would be worth the extra!
> ...


 
 Right, that's it. <click>


----------



## Danneq

This was the sort of adapter that was included (not my photo):


  


 I cut the microphone cable with a pair of scissors. Then I covered the green plug with black electrical tape. VERY basic DIY mods...


 BTW, the mids and vocals are quite nice.


----------



## Ira Delphic

danneq said:


> If you want a pair of earbuds with microphone, these might be a good option.
> 
> I received a pair today. When I ordered them I didn't realize that it was with mic even if it said so in the title and in the photos you could see the TRRS connector. I cannot explain why I was so blind...
> 
> ...


 
  
 They look interesting!


----------



## golov17

ira delphic said:


> They look interesting!


erqu EQ100 erqu EQ300
erqu EQ301
 erqu EQ302


----------



## Danneq

I think I understand now!

 Erqu EQ300 is the version with a microphone and EQ301 is the regular version.

 On Ali Express you can only find EQ300. About 1 year ago I found EQ301, but it cost $60 and sold out before I could but it. $60 is a bit too much.

 I think they have all Erqu models on Taobao, but I haven't checked out prices. I might buy a pair of EQ301 from Taobao later. I have registered an account on the Taobao agent Bhiner but I've not bought anything from there yet...

 Edit: Okay, now @golov17 confused me again with EQ302...
  
 Edit 2: EQ100 looks interesing with Yuin style housing.


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> I think I understand now!
> 
> 
> Erqu EQ300 is the version with a microphone and EQ301 is the regular version.
> ...


EQ100 Mmm.. want


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> EQ100 Mmm.. want


 
  
 Me want too!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/44843218258.html
  
 --


----------



## golov17

Today night a good mix of Jazz + Topping nx5 + Cygnus, cool


----------



## vapman

bloodypenguin said:


> Me want too!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 thanks buddy!
 saved me the effort of trying to find the page


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> thanks buddy!
> saved me the effort of trying to find the page


listen


----------



## vapman

Should be good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will review *TY Hi Z 650 ohm* tomorrow...


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Will review *[COLOR=FF00AA]TY Hi Z[/COLOR] [COLOR=FF0000]650 ohm[/COLOR]* tomorrow...


 with bmac


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> with bmac


 
  
 You know it man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 iPod mini, Bengkel Macro LOD, Bengkel Macro bMac 3CH 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I forgot this combo sounds way too good


----------



## golov17

boblauer said:


> FYI the builder built something called Teri Player by I assume reverse engineering a Tera Player. So it's not that "legendary" player. This is his amp I guess he's producing now.


http://revampacoustics.com/stories/


----------



## vapman

I forgot to post this for earbud case chat... The small square zip cases are fine and cheap, I have given many away to save on space as these are available in the USA for under $3 shipped each. seems there is very little demand for them as i've been buying them from various sites' clearance sections for years now.


----------



## golov17

small nice AKG case


----------



## Expansion

vapman said:


> What are you looking for sound-wise in an earbud you're not getting from the ones you have?


 
  
 Mrice E100 and this TY Hi-Z 32 both have some capabilities, you can hear some bass, it has some punch that you would not expect to have from an earbud. You can feel some dynamics also, nice for an earbud.
  
 But, the sound is not airy, it's not euphonic, it feels a bit cold, not that engaging. The have a mid-high harshness(E100 has more, Hi-Z has less), there might be a peak somewhere in the mid-high frequences, they have that Sennheiser PX100 type of highs.


----------



## vapman

expansion said:


> Mrice E100 and this TY Hi-Z 32 both have some capabilities, you can hear some bass, it has some punch that you would not expect to have from an earbud. You can feel some dynamics also, nice for an earbud.
> 
> But, the sound is not airy, it's not euphonic, it feels a bit cold, not that engaging. The have a mid-high harshness(E100 has more, Hi-Z has less), there might be a peak somewhere in the mid-high frequences, they have that Sennheiser PX100 type of highs.


 
 I agree about E100 and Hi-z 32. I don't think either are the sound you are going after!
  
 What's your budget? Off the top of my head I have maybe 5 or 6 buds I could instantly recommend but all are above $40. Of course there are good ones under $40 as well, but let us know your budget before I start recommending fancy buds


----------



## Expansion

I don't have a fixed budget. I could go up to 100$ for something really good, but I'd prefer to stay on the lower side, since I have a feeling that I'll get disappointed.
 I consider Hi-Z a good buy, for 5$, even though it's not my favourite type of sound.
 But  Mrice E100 wasn't a good buy, since I paid 20$ and I prefer to listen to some cheap earphones coming from a Sony Cedar phone.
  
 Offtopic, I bought this out of curiousity, ES9018 and AD823 inside. Do you think that these chips could be fake?
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/HIFI-ES9018-K2M-SA9023-AD823-2-USB-DAC-Decoder-With-Volume-adjust-3-5mm-output-USB/1497284_32711825626.html


----------



## vapman

expansion said:


> I don't have a fixed budget. I could go up to 100$ for something really good, but I'd prefer to stay on the lower side, since I have a feeling that I'll get disappointed.
> I consider Hi-Z a good buy, for 5$, even though it's not my favourite type of sound.
> But  Mrice E100 wasn't a good buy, since I paid 20$ and I prefer to listen to some cheap earphones coming from a Sony Cedar phone.
> 
> ...


 

 Shozy Cygnus, decent bass power but not as powerful as other earbuds. Warm, energetic, engaging sound. Fairly forward mids. about 70.
  
 Edimun V3, exceptional bass & treble extension, but not cold and non fatiguing. Recessed mids. about 60 plus shipping.
  
 Qian39, probably will check all your boxes off, and stay under $10 doing it. consider it a budget option 
  
 and i would get a monk plus if you don't own one yet.


----------



## ClieOS

expansion said:


> Offtopic, I bought this out of curiousity, ES9018 and AD823 inside. Do you think that these chips could be fake?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/HIFI-ES9018-K2M-SA9023-AD823-2-USB-DAC-Decoder-With-Volume-adjust-3-5mm-output-USB/1497284_32711825626.html



ES9018K2M is not an expensive DAC chip, so I doubt you'll ever get fake one. Besides, faking DAC is too expensive a process to worth while. Those opamp however is a fair game - the more wellknown the opamp, the more likely it isn't going to be the real deal.


----------



## kurtextrem

TY Hi-Z continues to confuse us all: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TY-Hi-Z-Earbud-HP150-150ohm-HP320-320ohm-HP400-400ohm-HP400s-400ohm-HiFi-Earbuds/32727454828.html
 "320M"... a different plug, but what does M mean lol


----------



## fairx

kurtextrem said:


> TY Hi-Z continues to confuse us all: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TY-Hi-Z-Earbud-HP150-150ohm-HP320-320ohm-HP400-400ohm-HP400s-400ohm-HiFi-Earbuds/32727454828.html
> "320M"... a different plug, but what does M mean lol



Actually they have it for quite some time. And I happened to order one last week. Hp320M. I ordered it because it's the most look like seahf v1 which a friend described as most zen 1 like sound. Well he actually said that zen1 only marginally better that seahf 320 v1


----------



## haiku

fairx said:


> Actually they have it for quite some time. And I happened to order one last week. Hp320M. I ordered it because it's the most look like seahf v1 which a friend described as most zen 1 like sound. Well he actually said that zen1 only marginally better that seahf 320 v1


 

 I don´t think that sound description is accurate. The Zen 1 is a bass monster while the Seahf V1 clearly isn´t, so......


----------



## oyster

Tried the TY2 from mojo, feels cheap sounds cheap. Recessed midrange, artificial treble, poor dynamics and below average resolution. Seriously, earphones like RX1 and cygnus have much better drivers.


----------



## fairx

haiku said:


> I don´t think that sound description is accurate. The Zen 1 is a bass monster while the Seahf V1 clearly isn´t, so......


 well I'm not sure either since I've never heard them. I'll share the impression on Hp320M later when I got them.


----------



## purplesun

fairx said:


> well I'm not sure either since I've never heard them. I'll share the impression on Hp320M later when I got them.


 
  
 How do you plan to drive it? Would appreciate if you could do some testing with lower-powered sources. I can see myself getting either HP150 or HP320/HP320M as I am pretty impressed with HP32 for what it is. I am just hoping that HP320/HP320M is easier than expected to drive, or else the HP150 will be a less hassle (ie: no external amp needed) choice for me.


----------



## ozkan

J cord and they sound terrible. 

Oh btw I bought two and one is straight and the other is J cord.

Do they need burn in?


----------



## purplesun

ozkan said:


> J cord and they sound terrible.
> Oh btw I bought two and one is straight and the other is J cord.
> Do they need burn in?


 
 The more terrible they sound at the beginning, the better they will sound after burn-in.
 At least that's what I hope whenever I hear a "disgusting" earphone OOTB  
 Send it for some "training" and try it a day or 2 later.


----------



## ozkan

purplesun said:


> The more terrible they sound at the beginning, the better they will sound after burn-in.
> At least that's what I hope whenever I hear a "disgusting" earphone OOTB
> Send it for some "training" and try it a day or 2 later.




I opened the shell to see the driver inside and found out what causes the hollow sound. I think the foam behind the driver is too thin not like the ones on the Monk/Monk+. I'll try to replace the foam when I get home. This needs some serious modding I guess. 

I have a feeling that these have some potential.


----------



## purplesun

ozkan said:


> I opened the shell to see the driver inside and found out what causes the hollow sound. I think the foam behind the driver is too thin not like the ones on the Monk/Monk+. I'll try to replace the foam when I get home. This needs some serious modding I guess.
> 
> I have a feeling that these have some potential.


 

 Don't forget to also post your "earbud hack" photos over on the new thread, DIY earbuds, as well.


----------



## ozkan

purplesun said:


> Don't forget to also post your "earbud hack" photos over on the new thread, DIY earbuds, as well.




Sure, I will mate.


----------



## LaRzZa

@ozkan you can also try to only have 2 vent holes open on each earbud, use some tape and see what you think about it.


----------



## ozkan

larzza said:


> @ozkan
> you can also try to only have 2 vent holes open on each earbud, use some tape and see what you think about it.




Mate I have Blutac for that purposes and it definitely works. Will let you know about each process of the mod. For now Monk is way better than the Philips SHE3800.


----------



## Saoshyant

Just unpacked the Hi-Z 32 (left angle plug), and given my current micro setup (Sansa Clip+ to Brainwavz AP001) this $5 earbud can deliver a quite enjoyable and fun-oriented sound.  For an earbud, vs similarly priced earbuds, I think the bass quality & quantity is pretty amazing.  The same way I think the Monk makes for a great starter vocalist earbud, I am really impressed with this out of the box for it's fun signature.  Now I just have to buy a case for this as it deserves protection.


----------



## ld100

*Rose Masya*
  
So do we know anything about them besides that the build quality needs to be improved? Anyone has them yet?


----------



## ld100

Anyone tried Audio-Technica ATH-C770 on ebay for 10 bucks? Fake? Any good?


----------



## ld100

Is there a Penon ebay store? Ebay seller with penonaudio name has a zero feedback... Is it them and they have a new account?


----------



## Saoshyant

Bigbargainonline I believe is the Penon store name


----------



## ld100

saoshyant said:


> Bigbargainonline I believe is the Penon store name


 
  
 Thank you. I thought it was them... But that new account got me confused...


----------



## luedriver

ld100 said:


> Anyone tried Audio-Technica ATH-C770 on ebay for 10 bucks? Fake? Any good?


 
 I ordered some last month, still waiting for them, maybe they'll come on the 17th but maybe the 31st


----------



## ClieOS

ld100 said:


> Anyone tried Audio-Technica ATH-C770 on ebay for 10 bucks? Fake? Any good?


 
  
 We covered that last week - there are current quite a few fake C770 on Taobao right now that is extremely cheap (under $10), so one would expect to get an equally cheap but also equally fake C770 from eBay as well. A real C770 from Taobao will be at least twice as expensive.


----------



## ld100

clieos said:


> We covered that last week - there are current quite a few fake C770 on Taobao right now that is extremely cheap (under $10), so one would expect to get an equally cheap but also equally fake C770 from eBay as well. A real C770 from Taobao will be at least twice as expensive.


 
  
 I missed that. Thank you for clarification.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> We covered that last week - there are current quite a few fake C770 on Taobao right now that is extremely cheap (under $10), so one would expect to get an equally cheap but also equally fake C770 from eBay as well. A real C770 from Taobao will be at least twice as expensive.


my from Taobao very good


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> my from Taobao very good


 
  
 Yours are from a official Taobao retailer (which means you get AT's 1 yr warranty in China). Also RMB119 is probably already discounted. The regular price is RMB159. Fake one goes around RMB59.


----------



## ozkan

purplesun said:


> Don't forget to also post your "earbud hack" photos over on the new thread, DIY earbuds, as well.




Here is my mod.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/822327/diy-earbuds/30#post_12920128


----------



## rggz

ozkan said:


> Here is my mod.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/822327/diy-earbuds/30#post_12920128


 

 If you don't like this result, you can try the Edimun tuning as well:


source: instagram 

 Apparently, there's a new venting port so you need drilling two holes approximately 1.5 - 2mm on near of the center's housing, blue tack inside and cotton to damping the side ports (at least in_ picture 8 _looks like that). But, I believe Edifier H180 which Edimun's is based uses a different driver though, then the results will be different as expected.


----------



## ozkan

rggz said:


> If you don't like this result, you can try the Edimun tuning as well:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Wow I may have done blue Edimonk then  That blue material on the wall of the back shell could be most probably Blutac which I also did on my Monk. Thank you for the pictures mate.


----------



## vapman

Bengkel Macro rules, that is too awesome that they posted an Instagram on how to tune a driver. I have to ask iriyan some more tuning hints over BBM 

Also look! TY 650!



Very positive out of the box  will leave impressions later tonight..


----------



## ozkan

The easiest Monk mod: 

The green thing in the middle hole is Blutac. By adding a tiny bit Blutac, the soundstage expands, the mid-bass tames a bit, more laid back mids and subbass gets more prominent.


----------



## Decommo

Hello, I was told that Shozy Cygnus cable turns to vivid green due to oxidation after few months. what happens to the sound? Does it change the sound quality? It looks weird cable color changes...


----------



## golov17

decommo said:


> Hello, I was told that Shozy Cygnus cable turns to vivid green due to oxidation after few months. what happens to the sound? Does it change the sound quality? It looks weird cable color changes...


 It has no effect on the sound


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

decommo said:


> Hello, I was told that Shozy Cygnus cable turns to vivid green due to oxidation after few months. what happens to the sound? Does it change the sound quality? It looks weird cable color changes...


 
 I like it green


----------



## mochill

+2 on green, love it


----------



## music4mhell

List updated
Now k's 500 ohms earphone is at top.

congrats @Haiku...

Edit. Someone please share k 500 ohm link from taobao ?


----------



## Decommo

mochill said:


> +2 on green, love it


 
@golov17 @Tayyab Pirzada @mochill   Thank you very much for your feedback and clarification.


----------



## vapman

Yup seems like @haiku found a gem. No balanced players, anyone knows if non-balanced K's 500 is as good? I guess that'll have to happen when I buy stuff from Taobao next. though I could just use a VE balanced -> unbalanced adapter.
  
 Noticed *TY 650* is down in the "Great" section but for me personally it belongs on the same level as the Cygnus. It is the perfect TY to me - all the smoothness of the 320ohm, all the sub bass force and lush treble of the older 400ohm. However, at the same time I can understand why it is only with the "Greats" - soundstage and imaging are only a bit above average. Decent amp is not a must - high gain mode is on and volume is turned 1/4 up to get average listening levels. Sounds absolutely amazing off the LG V10. even great with the iPod Mini.
  
 I have a feeling it needs more break in than just a day. It sounds a bit constricted like the TY 32 before it changed character after a week burn in. I'll hold off on actually reviewing it until it's had at least a week of constant playtime. I am a very big fan though so far, it ticks all the boxes the older 400 i loved didn't, and doesn't do anything worse than the 400 or 320 did.
  
 I am happy to see Edimun V3 is a contender, and I am REALLY curious to hear what @ClieOS thinks of the recabled Sony Ericsson HPM 62! I bought three of them a few months ago and I have been too lazy to recable them...
  
@Decommo another big fan of the green here 
  
 (edit: revised opinions about whether amp is necessary)


----------



## ryanjsoo

decommo said:


> Hello, I was told that Shozy Cygnus cable turns to vivid green due to oxidation after few months. what happens to the sound? Does it change the sound quality? It looks weird cable color changes...


 
 This is mine after ~6 months, not bad at all I would say. I live in Australia so it's not overly humid, the cable oxidized a little near the earpieces but it stopped after 2 months and has remained at the current level since then. As others have stated, the sound is identical, at least as far as I can tell. I thought the greening would really bother me, but it's been fine, you won't notice then green when they're in your ears, but you will notice the delicious sound!


----------



## Decommo

@vapman @ryanjsoo Thank you very much. I now feel safe getting Cygnus..


----------



## vapman

decommo said:


> @vapman @ryanjsoo Thank you very much. I now feel safe getting Cygnus..




Mine looks like the color of the original iMac compared to ryanjsoo's (higher humidity) but if anything, it only sounds better with time.


----------



## golov17




----------



## haiku

vapman said:


> Yup seems like @haiku found a gem. No balanced players, anyone knows if non-balanced K's 500 is as good? I guess that'll have to happen when I buy stuff from Taobao next. though I could just use a VE balanced -> unbalanced adapter.


 
 It´s understandable that he chose the balanced version, because make no mistake, unbalanced the K´s are a difficult load to drive. That was one of the reasons why I´ve decided to go from my X7/AM2 to AK300 Dap/380 Amp. Even with this combo I have to use the high gain mode to get them rocking....


----------



## Joy Boy

Anyone has link for k's earphone 500ohm, especially (if available), non balance type?

And i hear edimun got is place on the list. Congrats!


----------



## vapman

joy boy said:


> Anyone has link for k's earphone 500ohm, especially (if available), non balance type?
> 
> And i hear edimun got is place on the list. Congrats!


 

 welcome back to the thread bro! haven't seen you in a while 
  
 I am looking for k's earphone 500 on Mistertao, i think i saw  a taobao link to it earlier in this thread. i would buy the balanced and just use a $5 balanced -> unbalanced adapter...
  
 cant imagine it is much or any worse than TY 650 ohms.


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > Yup seems like @haiku
> ...


please share taobao link..but unbalanced version


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> welcome back to the thread bro! haven't seen you in a while
> 
> I am looking for k's earphone 500 on Mistertao, i think i saw  a taobao link to it earlier in this thread. i would buy the balanced and just use a $5 balanced -> unbalanced adapter...
> 
> cant imagine it is much or any worse than TY 650 ohms.



Thanks bro 
A lot of things to do, lately. So busy. Once i seen the list, there's a lot new earbuds i've never heard. Damn!

Maybe i should try from the highest one first. Already tried k's earbud? I can't get the link from google


----------



## vapman

joy boy said:


> Thanks bro
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 As far as I know only mr @haiku and mr @ClieOS have the K's earphone.
 I am very interested to try it though 
  
  
 I had to revise my earlier comment on TY 650: it seemed like it needed a lot of power but not so much. Both my LG v10 and even iPod Mini can drive it without any trouble...


----------



## luedriver

does anyone else have the feeling that the iphone 6s can't drive monk+ by itself?
  
 last night at home, (quiet environment) was listening to my iphone with cygnus and tried monk+ with a song, although they (monk+) didn't seem to have less volume, it did seem like something was missing, maybe it lacked power, since the monk plus is 64ohm
  
 or maybe this is the real difference between them?
  
 it almost seems like the cygus sound better with the iphone 6s than my pc/amp combo, but its probably because of the lower impedance of the cygnus
  
  
 edit* just saw @ClieOS got the mx375's
  
 for a while wanted to know how they are (especially after buying and liking the mx170)


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> joy boy said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks bro
> ...


how does it sound with mojo..
plz compare woth mojito..

Thanks in advance


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> how does it sound with mojo..
> plz compare woth mojito..
> 
> Thanks in advance


 

 It is _better than all Seahf and TY _I have ever heard - almost all of them. It really has the best of all.
  
 pretty different from Mojito. Mojito is neutral, very detailed very analytic. 
 TY 650 is very fun. very very powerful sub bass that does not invade into the mids.
 truly incredible for electronic, j-pop/k-pop & older hip hop IMO...
 vocals are more lush than on mojito. bass goes just as low and controlled but a lot more impact.
 awesome treble and bass extension - nice sparkly treble but not fatiguing at all - but a great contrast to the cygnus which can seem too rolled off treble sometimes.
 i wish it was a little less expensive but no complaints - i am very happy with it.
  
 imagine how different Zen 2 and mojito are from each other - it is almost that drastic of a difference - but still a very different sound than Zen 2 (i like it a little more honestly, because the huge fun bass like old Seahf 400, even better on 650)
  
 All TY 650 owners should try *girls generation - Gee* and something like this out


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> As far as I know only mr @haiku
> and mr @ClieOS
> have the K's earphone.
> I am very interested to try it though
> ...



Wow. Another limited earbud? Seen the picture, more interesting :

Ty & seahf gain a lot of name now. So famous. Even in my country


----------



## vapman

joy boy said:


> Wow. Another limited earbud? Seen the picture, more interesting :
> 
> Ty & seahf gain a lot of name now. So famous. Even in my country


 

 i have owned or heard:
  
 Seahf smart 2.0
 Seahf LD 3.0 320, 400
 Seahf LD 4.0 320, 400, 400s
 TY Hi-Z 32 v2, 320 v2, 400, and now 650.
  
 650 has the best aspects of all put into one bud, it is breaking in incredibly nicely, so recommended to all seahf/ty fans, even if the price is a little steep. hope it drops from $119 eventually.
  
 I don't know if 650 is limited or a new regular model, but it came in a very fancy case, not the usual white rectangle box.


----------



## Raketen

ryanjsoo said:


> This is mine after ~6 months, not bad at all I would say. I live in Australia so it's not overly humid, the cable oxidized a little near the earpieces but it stopped after 2 months and has remained at the current level since then. As others have stated, the sound is identical, at least as far as I can tell. I thought the greening would really bother me, but it's been fine, you won't notice then green when they're in your ears, but you will notice the delicious sound!




I actually like the look of oxidized copper... so long as it stays out of the terminations h34r:


----------



## fairx

purplesun said:


> How do you plan to drive it? Would appreciate if you could do some testing with lower-powered sources. I can see myself getting either HP150 or HP320/HP320M as I am pretty impressed with HP32 for what it is. I am just hoping that HP320/HP320M is easier than expected to drive, or else the HP150 will be a less hassle (ie: no external amp needed) choice for me.



Well I have O2 amp. Hope it match well. I love my ty 32 too.


----------



## vapman

raketen said:


> I actually like the look of oxidized copper...


----------



## Tomasz2D

K's Earphones store https://shop36124713.world.taobao.com/


----------



## ozkan

Btw, I'm having a hard time to understand how burn in turned these SHE3800 to an awesome sounding earbuds with the mod of course. No harsh treble no peaks across the spectrum. They are more accurate, clear and natural sounding than the Monk. They are far far better than even my modded Monks. I still cannot believe what I'm hearing guys. I paired with Monk plus foams and loved it. Buy them and do the mod I've posted. You won't regret it!


----------



## Willber

ozkan said:


> Btw, I'm having a hard time to understand how burn in turned these SHE3800 to an awesome sounding earbuds with the mod of course. No harsh treble no peaks across the spectrum. They are more accurate, clear and natural sounding than the Monk. They are far far better than even my modded Monks. I still cannot believe what I'm hearing guys. I paired with Monk plus foams and loved it. Buy them and do the mod I've posted. You won't regret it!


 

 Hi ozkan, I don't remember your SHE3800 mod, can you post a link please?


----------



## ozkan

willber said:


> Hi ozkan, I don't remember your SHE3800 mod, can you post a link please?




Sorry, here is the link mate. 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/822327/diy-earbuds/30#post_12921671


----------



## kurtextrem

tomasz2d said:


> K's Earphones store https://shop36124713.world.taobao.com/


 
 sadly I can't understand anything apart from "USD 88.16 - 103.13"... that price is insane if it's a Champion
 can someone make him or a seller on Aliexpress list those? ima throwing my money at that bud


----------



## Willber

ozkan said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Hi ozkan, I don't remember your SHE3800 mod, can you post a link please?
> ...


 

 Ah, I saw that, I thought you meant a different one for the SHE. Anyway, I'll give it a try, thanks.
  
 BTW just got my 1More EO320. First impressions - good. Very good. Similar mids and highs to the RX-1 but with the deeper and tighter bass of the Hi-Z 32 v2. Bigger soundstage as well, IMO it's what the RX-1 should have been. Also beautifully made and presented, a bargain for $22 (they're a bit more now):
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1More-Piston-Pod-Earbud-Headphones-Headset-Earphone-with-Remote-Mic-Retail-Box-for-Xiaomi-Note-Mi/32660452812.html
  
 I only know of me and @haiku on here who have these. Anyone else?


----------



## golov17

same?


----------



## purplesun

fairx said:


> Well I have O2 amp. Hope it match well. I love my ty 32 too.


 
  
 I mostly use my IEMs/earbuds with smartphones, so I have kept their power requirement quite low. Have Hidizs AP60 arriving soon, which should have a slightly better output than smartphones, so am thinking of going up to a beefier earbud. TY150 should be fine with AP60, and maybe even smartphones.
  
 Let me know about TY320M, if that is usable with what I have (probably with AP60 but not smartphones) I might go for HP320M/HP320 instead of TY150.


----------



## music4mhell

tomasz2d said:


> K's Earphones store https://shop36124713.world.taobao.com/


Thanks a tonn buddy


----------



## ClieOS

vapman said:


> Yup seems like @haiku found a gem. No balanced players, anyone knows if non-balanced K's 500 is as good? I guess that'll have to happen when I buy stuff from Taobao next. though I could just use a VE balanced -> unbalanced adapter.
> ... I am happy to see Edimun V3 is a contender, and I am REALLY curious to hear what @ClieOS thinks of the recabled Sony Ericsson HPM 62! I bought three of them a few months ago and I have been too lazy to recable them...
> ...


 
  
 My source (or amp, if I use them) are more than powerful enough to handle K's 500ohm, balanced or not. Besides, balanced driven or not doesn't really change it much, if at all. The word 'balanced' in the list is more to denote how the earbuds is terminated rather than how the earbuds is driven.
  
 I can sort of understand how a cellphone user of old time will find HPM-62 to be quite a good sounding headset - because it is, especially if you compared to headset of its era. But as far as comparing it to today's earbuds, I won't go nearly as far to say it is the only earbud you will ever need.
  


haiku said:


> It´s understandable that he chose the balanced version, because make no mistake, unbalanced the K´s are a difficult load to drive. That was one of the reasons why I´ve decided to go from my X7/AM2 to AK300 Dap/380 Amp. Even with this combo I have to use the high gain mode to get them rocking....


 
  
 I didn't pick up the balanced version of K's 500ohm because I thought it will be difficult to drive, since my source is more than enough to handle even full sized high impedance headphone in single ended configuration. I only pick up the balanced version because I know if I pick up the unbalanced version, I'll always wonder if there is a difference (vs. balanced) or not. But if I picked the balanced version, I can use it with a balanced-to-unbalanced adapter and compare the two.
  


luedriver said:


> edit* just saw @ClieOS got the mx375's
> 
> for a while wanted to know how they are (especially after buying and liking the mx170)


 
  
 First impression on MX375 is a big thumb up..
  


joy boy said:


> Wow. Another limited earbud? Seen the picture, more interesting :


 
  
 HP-650 is not a limited edition - but the first 50 who ordered get a limited edition hard case.


----------



## Saoshyant

Just getting my initial listening in with the TP16, seems like it's quite talented at instrumental/orchestral music so far.  Vocals are decent, but not stellar, and by no means lacking.  Bass feels neutral, so I won't try any Trip Hop with these, at least not without trying it on a bass-centric setup.  I was kind of hoping for the green foams shown in the Penon picture, but alas no green for me.  I will say I tend to prefer more musical/fun presentations, but I can really appreciated a talented detailed earbud like the Mojito, so no concerns with me writing the TP16 off just because of my taste.


----------



## JASru

saoshyant said:


> Just getting my initial listening in with the TP16, seems like it's quite talented at instrumental/orchestral music so far.  Vocals are decent, but not stellar, and by no means lacking.  Bass feels neutral, so I won't try any Trip Hop with these, at least not without trying it on a bass-centric setup.  I was kind of hoping for the green foams shown in the Penon picture, but alas no green for me.  I will say I tend to prefer more musical/fun presentations, but I can really appreciated a talented detailed earbud like the Mojito, so no concerns with me writing the TP16 off just because of my taste.


Are you listening to it foamless?


----------



## WillTirta

So how about the K earphone sound impression @clieos??
Any review on the previous page..?


----------



## Saoshyant

Nope, I'm using the Monk foams.  I pretty much use those with everything.


----------



## kurtextrem

Is the balanced K's 500 ohm bud version currently sold out? I can only see the regular version
  
 ..and in the description there is a "group" mentioned and a "group discount". Does anyone have more infos?


----------



## JASru

saoshyant said:


> Nope, I'm using the Monk foams.  I pretty much use those with everything.


 Give it a short try foamless. For me that is the best option.


----------



## Saoshyant

I'll give that a try soon @JASru


----------



## JASru

saoshyant said:


> I'll give that a try soon @JASru


Thx. Have a good time!


----------



## music4mhell

jasru said:


> saoshyant said:
> 
> 
> > Nope, I'm using the Monk foams.  I pretty much use those with everything.
> ...


i am using with monk+ foam from last one month..
i feel nice seal...so get nice bass response


----------



## JASru

Tried that. I preffer foamless


----------



## Townyj

I use my TP16 with Donuts.. they sound awesome with them.


----------



## ClieOS

kurtextrem said:


> Is the balanced K's 500 ohm bud version currently sold out? I can only see the regular version
> 
> ..and in the description there is a "group" mentioned and a "group discount". Does anyone have more infos?


 
  
 There was originally another option to request for custom termination. It isn't there anymore.


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, both the TP16 & Hi-Z 32 can handle a bit of bass boost, although I personally never try to take it as far as @vapman aims for, so I can't say just how far they can go.  I'll leave that up to the true basshead among us.  The TP16 at the point I boosted to retained the more detailed presentation of the two, where the Hi-Z 32 pushed the bass harder and had the more fun presentation.  I'd say from initial impressions for just having had them a day or so, the two would compliment each other decently, but if I had to pick one, the TP16 so far feels more talented with vocals & instrumental/orchestral plus handles the bass boost well enough that it can be decent with bass-centric music.  Either way, they're both really solid for the price so far.


----------



## kurtextrem

clieos said:


> There was originally another option to request for custom termination. It isn't there anymore.


 
 somewhere I've seen the third option, but it was greyed out. Hopefully only currently sold out.
  
 and still wondering what "欢迎热爱音乐的朋友加入 高阻耳机群 16758178（进群有优惠）" means (I've Google Translated it, but I mean the what it really means - which group?)


----------



## ClieOS

kurtextrem said:


> somewhere I've seen the third option, but it was greyed out. Hopefully only currently sold out.
> 
> and still wondering what "欢迎热爱音乐的朋友加入 高阻耳机群 16758178（进群有优惠）" means (I've Google Translated it, but I mean the what it really means - which group?)


 
  
 It means a discussion group hosted on QQ (*Chinese largest messaging service).


----------



## thamasha69

luedriver said:


> does anyone else have the feeling that the iphone 6s can't drive monk+ by itself?
> 
> last night at home, (quiet environment) was listening to my iphone with cygnus and tried monk+ with a song, although they (monk+) didn't seem to have less volume, it did seem like something was missing, maybe it lacked power, since the monk plus is 64ohm
> 
> ...




I have an iPhone 6S as well and I while I liked the Monk Plus out of that device, I too felt like something was missing. I got a 1st gen iPod Shuffle a few months ago and while I don't know the power rating of that device, it seemed to drive the Monk Plus much better... Like the sound opened up a bit where it felt congested.

Yesterday at RMAF we got to listen to Candy Monk. I plugged my Dad's Dragonfly Black to my iPhone 6S via CCK and gave the Candies a listen and it was phenomenal. My Dad mentioned that he never remembered the Monk Plus sounding like THAT, as if it was a completely different driver. Whether the sonic difference was due to the Candy's cable, the power of the DF Black, or both I don't know. But I am on the train that Monk Plus needs more than iPhone 6S can provide.


----------



## music4mhell

thamasha69 said:


> luedriver said:
> 
> 
> > does anyone else have the feeling that the iphone 6s can't drive monk+ by itself?
> ...


wow such a great family..

what's ur gear and whats ur dad's ?

m asking just out of curiosity...


----------



## thamasha69

music4mhell said:


> wow such a great family..
> 
> what's ur gear and whats ur dad's ?
> 
> m asking just out of curiosity...




My Dad and I both have original Monk, Monk Plus (he has Darth Monk), and I just got two Candies, one for me and one for him during the last sale. We both have 1st gen shuffles too lol. He has Koss Portapro and I have KSC75 on a headband. The DF Black is his. He's a big 2 channel home stereo guy and we've each got our own setups there haha.


----------



## vapman

@ClieOS I forgot to ask, who did the recabling on your Sony HPM 62? Like I said I've had three or four lying in a drawer for months, I will do one or two recables by myself but I'm interested to know as I'd like to get one done by someone more experienced in that department to compare to my own work.
  
 I also thought to send one to De"Mun but need to hear back from them on where to send it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and i'd want to get another set to leave with mr kandela...
  
 BTW I didn't know the fancy case was limited to the first 50 TY 650's. Nice to know - it really is a nice case - so I'm sorry for all the buyers after that who will get the plain white box!


----------



## Fabi

I have to say TY 400s (warmish) and Chord Hugo (analytical) are a match made in heaven 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 As a dap, Lotoo Paw Gold can drive it very well on high gain, almost at max volume.
  
 At last but not least, TY 32 2.0 pairs very well straight to the new Sony Walkman WM1Z 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



It shines!


----------



## Willber

> Originally Posted by *Fabi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> At last but not least, TY 32 2.0 pairs very well straight to the new Sony Walkman WM1Z
> 
> ...


 
 Those TY 32s are much bigger than mine!


----------



## Fabi

willber said:


> Those TY 32s are much bigger than mine!


 
 Just very slightly modded


----------



## ld100

fabi said:


> I have to say TY 400s (warmish) and Chord Hugo (analytical) are a match made in heaven
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 What is the Amp and headphones just out of curiosity?


----------



## Ira Delphic

I received the SHE3800 from Fastech - "Neckstrap Verison." 
 I can't get a good connection using with my LG V10 and also tried with an LG G4 - same result. Once inserted it plays from the phone's speaker until I jiggle it, then sound goes in and out. One of my MP's had a problem -bad connection at jack but as someone suggested here, I wiped it down the MP's 3.5mm jack and it works 100%. 
  
 It works using the Y splitter (use for a-b testing earbuds). This is the SH3800 with the MP:
  

  
 I have literally 2 dozen IEMs, earbuds, headphones in total, and only a problem is with SHE3800 and a random KZ that had a bad connection at times. As mentioned with the splitter above it's fine. I think this is a good excuse to try recabling at some point!
  
 The sound is good - not as good as the MP. The high end has less clarity, bass less tight, but need to test some more. I'm not a believer in burn in, but I will burn this in. 
 Other than that the cable is much nicer on the MP in comparision. I only bought a single SHE3800 so not sure if I got a bad one.
 Anyone else have an issue with SHE3800 and smart phone?


----------



## Fabi

ld100 said:


> What is the Amp and headphones just out of curiosity?


 
 Dac/amp Sony TA-ZH1ES and my ESW10JPN, it didn't pair well btw.


----------



## purplesun

ira delphic said:


> I can't get a good connection using with my LG V10 and also tried with an LG G4 - same result. Once inserted it plays from the phone's speaker until I jiggle it, then sound goes in and out. One of my MP's had a problem -bad connection at jack but as someone suggested here, I wiped it down the MP's 3.5mm jack and it works 100%.
> Anyone else have an issue with SHE3800 and smart phone?


 
  
 Spray a bit of contact cleaner into the jack. That should help.


----------



## ozkan

ira delphic said:


> I received the SHE3800 from Fastech - "Neckstrap Verison."
> I can't get a good connection using with my LG V10 and also tried with an LG G4 - same result. Once inserted it plays from the phone's speaker until I jiggle it, then sound goes in and out. One of my MP's had a problem -bad connection at jack but as someone suggested here, I wiped it down the MP's 3.5mm jack and it works 100%.
> 
> It works using the Y splitter (use for a-b testing earbuds). This is the SH3800 with the MP:
> ...




Burn in will help them. I wasn't impressed out of the box but after 11-12 hours continuous burn in they sounded more clear.


----------



## vapman

Regarding earbuds and burn in...
I didn't believe in physical headphone burn in of any kind until i got my second set of jvc sz2000 and noticed they sounded so different from my sz2000 with hundreds hours of use.

IEMs i never bought it.

Earbuds i never bought it until the cygnus which i noticed opened up a bit after some use. About the same with the Asura 2.0. 

However, not sure exactly what it is, but i always find TY earbuds to change remarkably with burn on. They always sound a little stiff and congested out of tbe box and opens up with time. I am experiencing it with my TY 32 and 650 models. I have a new TY 32 to compare against my 200+ hours TY 32 and find the new one to greatly resemble the sound i remembered from first time using the T/ 32 right out of the box and thinking it was awful.


----------



## jant71

My buds as of late have had very little change. Maybe a bit of bass loss and tightening up of the sound but nothing remarkable till the Hi-Z 32. Little bugger really undergoes a more noticeable change.


----------



## phiely

vapman said:


> i have owned or heard:
> 
> Seahf smart 2.0
> Seahf LD 3.0 320, 400
> ...


 

 Purchased 650 based on your comments - thanks!  They are now $99/free shipping on aliexpress.
 Also purchased 650 because my LD 3.0 320 are the most fun, besting my Mojito, Zen 2, Ting. RX1. and Monk+
 To me LD 3.0 320 sounds raw and exciting, with not well controlled highs - but boy are they fun.
  
 BTW, the $29.50 PAILICCS 3.5 mm Male to Female Extension 3ft Cable from Penon Audio are excellent.


----------



## purplesun

Question about TY Hi-Z HP650.
 What's the smallest physical setup that is likely to drive the TY650 properly?
 Assuming a standard smartphone as the source.
  
 I guess with small-size headphone amp, but which one is expected to drive it well?
 Thanks.
  
 - This is not looking good for my sub-$10 earbud club membership


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> Question about TY Hi-Z HP650.
> What's the smallest physical setup that is likely to drive the TY650 properly?
> Assuming a standard smartphone as the source.
> 
> ...





my lg v10 and ipod mini can both drive it no problems.... don't think any amp is -needed-



it actually sounds awesome off the ipod mini.


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> my lg v10 and ipod mini can both drive it no problems.... don't think any amp is -needed-
> it actually sounds awesome off the ipod mini.


 
  
 That is amazing! Looks like the ladder up from TY32 goes all the way up to the top without much drive issue. At worst, it will need only a small amp to help out the power delivery.
  
 Just to double-check on HP650 with V10/iPod: Are kick drums & cymbals fully formed? Does symphonic performances remain coherent at full pelt (ie: doesn't sound compressed & lumpy)? If yes, then it looks like something to look forward to, after I'm done with my E888 quest.


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> That is amazing! Looks like the ladder up from TY32 goes all the way up to the top without much drive issue. At worst, it will need only a small amp to help out the power delivery.
> 
> Just to double-check on HP650 with V10/iPod: Are kick drums & cymbals fully formed? Does symphonic performances remain coherent at full pelt (ie: doesn't sound compressed & lumpy)? If yes, then it looks like something to look forward to, after I'm done with my E888 quest.


 

 Yes they certainly are. Listening on V10 now. Just listened to some *Bass Mekanik *on the iPod Mini which power starved sources really sounds bad on. Everything sounds good. The 650 must have a sensitive driver to counteract the very high impedance as it sounds great, full, uncongested on all these sources. But bass is really something else when amped.
  
 edit: Wouldn't say the whole ladder - 320 and 400 are way harder to drive than this 650


----------



## Raketen

Just went on a dual driver binge.. an IEM and TKY2... hopefully I don't regret it in a month when they arrive h34r:


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> edit: Wouldn't say the whole ladder - 320 and 400 are way harder to drive than this 650


 
  
 You means HP150 or HP650 are my best bets with smartphones and Hidizs AP60. That sounds so wrong!
  
 But, you do know your bass better than most, and would have heard many under-powered bass set-ups.


----------



## Decommo

vapman said:


> All TY 650 owners should try *girls generation - Gee* and something like this out


 
 I did not expect you listening GNSD...  I rather listen THIS..  or THIS


----------



## purplesun

Is this a bass off? Count me out, I'll just get sick at the slightest whiff of 40hz.

You boys can go fight it out


----------



## golov17

decommo said:


> I did not expect you listening GNSD...  I rather listen THIS..  or THIS


heh


----------



## ClieOS

vapman said:


> @ClieOS I forgot to ask, who did the recabling on your Sony HPM 62? Like I said I've had three or four lying in a drawer for months, I will do one or two recables by myself but I'm interested to know as I'd like to get one done by someone more experienced in that department to compare to my own work.
> 
> I also thought to send one to De"Mun but need to hear back from them on where to send it
> 
> ...


 
  
 I did. Have been building ER4 cable for previous 9 months really sharpen my DIY skill.


----------



## purplesun

Just remembered something from the bad old days.
 Only on bookshelf speakers for me.
  
 WARNING!! First note starts out loud.
 
  
 Apologise for the slight OT which I may have started; I will go lie down now


----------



## vapman

clieos said:


> I did. Have been building ER4 cable for previous 9 months really sharpen my DIY skill.


 

 Awesome stuff. Really excited to hear your thoughts on it. Might inspire me to finally do mine up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 BTW, since you did it already, is the left or right solder point on the drivers the + side?


----------



## ClieOS

vapman said:


> Awesome stuff. Really excited to hear your thoughts on it. Might inspire me to finally do mine up
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 On the driver itself, the soldering point with the red dot is hot, the other one is ground.


----------



## jfoxlim

I love ER4, please share the result with new cable


----------



## vapman

About 40-50 hours of constant playback at medium to medium loud volumes on my TY 650. It continues to open up more and more. Going to recommend all who own it listen to it right away, but don't make any final judgements until probably closer to 100ish hours! I'm listening to songs I listened to first day with these buds and it just sounds 10 times better in every way. Really is opening up a lot, soundstage and imaging getting massively improved. Definitely needs a decent volume for the burn in to work best as I suspect these drivers are rather stiff OOTB and do enjoy getting the workout of about a hundred hours' use to loosen up.
  
 Anyway, will hold off on actual reviews until I have about 160 hours on it, will still be happy to answer questions about it.
  
 P.S. starting work on my HPM 62 thanks to mr ClieOS!!!


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> About 40-50 hours of constant playback at medium to medium loud volumes on my TY 650. It continues to open up more and more. Going to recommend all who own it listen to it right away, but don't make any final judgements until probably closer to 100ish hours! I'm listening to songs I listened to first day with these buds and it just sounds 10 times better in every way.
> Anyway, will hold off on actual reviews until I have about 160 hours on it, will still be happy to answer questions about it.


 
 If it's like TY32, the biggest changes occurred between 50 hours to 100 for my TY32. It was still changing from 100 to 150 hours, but by smaller amounts. After that, I just started using it.
  
 IMO, I think by end of day 3 (70 to 80hours), it should sound good enough to start using, even though it will still be changing. That's for TY32, not sure if it will be the same for TY650.


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> If it's like TY32, the biggest changes occurred between 50 hours to 100 for my TY32. It was still changing from 100 to 150 hours, but by smaller amounts. After that, I just started using it.
> 
> IMO, I think by end of day 3 (70 to 80hours), it should sound good enough to start using, even though it will still be changing. That's for TY32, not sure if it will be the same for TY650.




I would honestly consider them to be equal amounts of burn in time!

I have to stress how weird i think it is that so many people agree these are burn in dependent and change so much over time. I cant possibly count how many of all kinds of headphones I have owned and i can count the ones that have changed significantly with burn in on one hand.


----------



## magitka27

Currently listening to them, as now i find its more relaxing with no rubber ring / foam / double combo foam

 waiting for the nx3 and i wont buy any equipment until next 4 months ,


----------



## ozkan

Not only earbuds or headphones but IEMs like PFE112 does burn in even though some people say BAs don't burn in.  I'm huge believer of burn in after I received my SHE3800. They greatly improved after 20 hours of burn in period and still changing.


----------



## purplesun

ozkan said:


> Not only earbuds or headphones but IEMs like PFE112 does burn in even though some people say BAs don't burn in.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think generally earbuds stabilze at around 2 full days of burn-in. But less-capable earbuds can get to their best in minutes/hours. TY Hi-Z 32 was my first earbud that needed such long burn-in. I hate burning-in earphones, always gets me worried whenever it sounds like crap in the beginning.


----------



## jfoxlim

Sorry for asking, are you referring to ear bud to be settle down in the ear or the ear bud itself needs burn in. I believe IEM or headphones needs burn in and also amps.


----------



## purplesun

jfoxlim said:


> Sorry for asking, are you referring to ear bud to be settle down in the ear or the ear bud itself needs burn in. I believe IEM or headphones needs burn in and also amps.


 
  
 I was referring to earbuds needed burning in.
 As for burning-in of anything else that has no moving parts; I prefer to stay out of that discussion.


----------



## jfoxlim

purplesun said:


> I was referring to earbuds needed burning in.
> As for burning-in of anything else that has no moving parts; I prefer to stay out of that discussion.


 

 Thanks, good to know, will keep this in mind.


----------



## purplesun

jfoxlim said:


> Thanks, good to know, will keep this in mind.


 
 No worries.
  
 Hey! Another old member with little post count, like myself.
 Old headfier never die, we just don't type much


----------



## endia

purplesun said:


> No worries.
> 
> Hey! Another old member with little post count, like myself.
> Old headfier never die, we just don't type much


 
 count me in too


----------



## golov17

Epic pic AIWA & more from girl in the Thailand


----------



## pfloyd

purplesun said:


> No worries.
> 
> Hey! Another old member with little post count, like myself.
> Old headfier never die, we just don't type much



Yeah, I'm one of them too, and these Sony buds are as old as my subscription and still my favorite, V- shaped rockers with great bass.
 Monk+ are great for extracting detail at low listening levels when situational awareness is important.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

https://trade.taobao.com/trade/detail/trade_snap.htm?spm=a1z0b.3.5920813.8.bcyLqD&trade_id=2423627474732327
  
 Just received these today, must say that they are quite good and worth the money. 
 Initial impression is that they sound very open with good detail and imaging. Highs can be just a weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee bit grainy and rolled off. 
 From the maker of DIY dual drivers. Supposedly using the same driver as X55 Earbud (no idea what is the X55 Earbud) 
  
 EDIT: After listening to Joe Hisaishi's Tenku no Shiro Laputa Castle in the Sky, the highs don't seem that rolled off at all (or maybe even no roll off), only slightly grainy. Separation might be an issue with pieces such as Joe Hisaishi's World Dreams


----------



## JASru

Cheap bud-like thing from Tennmak(resembles Rock Mucu a lot):
 https://ru.aliexpress.com/store/product/Tennmak-Bassoon-On-Ear-Sport-Earphone-with-Volume-Control-and-Microphone-universal-version/1183804_32742754025.html?detailNewVersion=&categoryId=63705&spm=2114.8147860.0.0.3D8Kho


----------



## Ira Delphic

jasru said:


> Cheap bud-like thing from Tennmak(resembles Rock Mucu a lot):
> https://ru.aliexpress.com/store/product/Tennmak-Bassoon-On-Ear-Sport-Earphone-with-Volume-Control-and-Microphone-universal-version/1183804_32742754025.html?detailNewVersion=&categoryId=63705&spm=2114.8147860.0.0.3D8Kho


 
  
 Appears to be a Yurbud clone.


----------



## Expansion

I have received the SHE3800. I like them! Best 3.21$ ever invested.
  
 The bass might be a bit boomy, until they burn in, as someone has said earlier, but they're dynamic, and they have SOFT sweet highs.
 I guess that my hearing is still good and emphased highs cause some listening fatigue. Not the case with SHE3800.
 I've ordered 2 more pairs. 
 Thank you for mentioning this little gem headphone! 
  
 Now I'm looking forward to plan the next level. A good budget DAC/amp + what would you suggest me to try next in the earphones area.


----------



## Willber

expansion said:


> I have received the SHE3800. I like them! Best 3.21$ ever invested.


 
  
 If you're interested in other budget earbuds have a look in here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds


----------



## Ira Delphic

vapman said:


> purplesun said:
> 
> 
> > Question about TY Hi-Z HP650.
> ...


 
  
 I love my MP but want to try something a few steps better. What other higher end earbud can be driven properly straight from a V10? I'm most interested in neutral sound - revealing highs and even mids, and tight, accurate (not overemphasized) bass.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Someone up for 800Ohms?

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-6694467148.49.p5OdD5&id=534778748193


----------



## JASru

Try TP-16. It is cheap. It is well-made. It has same shells, so if Monk fits they will fit for sure. And you can read some impressions of them in this thread. Imo they are very neutral.


----------



## kurtextrem

We were talking about Cygnus donut foams earlier and even more back in this thread someone posted foams supposed to be similar to Shozy's https://www.aliexpress.com/item/earphone-sponge-earphone-foam-ear-pads-three-colors/32245327908.html
 i can confirm that, I'm happy with them. I haven't tried Hiegi Donuts yet, but I like those cheap ones here  (cheap = less material used = thinner = like the one included)


----------



## luckyeights

I notice a number of links to taobao.com but it does not seem like they have a version of the site in English unless I am missing something?  Google translate works on some pages but if i go to checkout and it asks to fill out i assume your address ect google translate does not work.  So I am kind of stumped as to how to order from them.....
  
 Anyway I ordered the Ty HI-Z hp650 earbuds, hope they are what I am looking for.  I have the monk plus, t-music version 1 and the rx1 earbuds.
  
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Newest-TY-Hi-Z-Earbuds-HP650-650ohm-In-Ear-Earphone-Upgraded-High-Resistance-Earphone-Flat-Plug/32737813536.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.ogl73w
  
*Monk Plus* - bass is good but boomy and lacks detail, mids are warm and have a good presence, highs are decent.  however as a whole there is a veil over the sound and it makes me not like them.
  
*T-music* (v1) - (no veil) very good controlled  bass that extends pretty low for a bud, mids are slightly recessed maybe a little thin, highs are pretty good not sibilant.
  
*Rx1* - lacks bass, very mid centric earbud, highs good not sibilant, to me it has a "digital" sound to it very clean and detailed but not exactly what i would call fun to listen to.
  
 So basically my favorite so far is the T-music except for the mids.  I wish the mids were not recessed/thin.  Does the second version of the t-music fix the mids?
  
 Based of Vapman's description the ty 650s might just fit the bill as to what I am looking for.  I was going to get the Cygnus, but from my understanding they are not the greatest in the bass department and tend to roll off early on the highs.  Plus the Shozy BK is just around the corner ill wait to hear reviews on the BK. The other option was the Zen 2.0 but I have heard its picky on sources and cant put foams on it which could be a comfort issue for me.  It hurts after a little bit to use the thin stock monk plus foams, had to get the hiegi foams that are thicker. I might give the Zen a try at some point or might skip it depending on Nirvana. 
  
 If you know of a bud that might fit what I am looking for i will be sure to add it to my list.  As far as to what i listen to....pretty much everything so got to be a well rounded bud.


----------



## ld100

luckyeights said:


> I notice a number of links to taobao.com but it does not seem like they have a version of the site in English unless I am missing something?  Google translate works on some pages but if i go to checkout and it asks to fill out i assume your address ect google translate does not work.  So I am kind of stumped as to how to order from them.....
> 
> Anyway I ordered the Ty HI-Z hp650 earbuds, hope they are what I am looking for.  I have the monk plus, t-music version 1 and the rx1 earbuds.
> 
> ...




So true about Monk Plus. I wonder how other VE buds sound. I would love something that would have the same signature, but without veil feeling...


----------



## purplesun

ld100 said:


> So true about Monk Plus. I wonder how other VE buds sound. I would love something that would have the same signature, but without veil feeling...


 
  
@ozkan over at DIY earbuds thread has a blu tac trick which he claims will reduce the mid-bass hump. You could try that and see if it reduces the veil for you.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/822327/diy-earbuds/30#post_12920551


----------



## Danneq

Quote:


golov17 said:


> Epic pic AIWA & more from girl in the Thailand


 


 Why 3 Aiwa HP D9?


 How about this?

  

 From top left: Aiwa HP-D9, Aiwa HP-V99
 From bottom left: Aiwa HP-V3. Aiwa HP-V2 (first earbud released by Aiwa in 1982)


 Or some Sony?


  
 From the left: Sony MDR-E252, MDR-E282 & MDR-E484

 E252 was also released in 1982. If I remember correctly it was released shortly before Aiwa HP-V2. I prefer the first Sony to the first Aiwa. Heck, E252 is still number 2 on my earbud list...


 I recently got an Aiwa V99 in a trade. Unfortunately the cable is crap. One earlier owner must have decided to change cable and took the first one he could find. It's really cheap and also short. I would want to recable them, but the person who recabled them with the cheap cable used glue in some places where glue should not be used.

 I'm not the best at soldering, but I could probably do as good a job as that person did. Well, I hope to get them recabled some time later. For now it's just fun to have a pair of V99.


----------



## Danneq

Back to modern earbuds.

 Anyone have any experience with Cypherus Audio X?

 I'm close to taking the plunge and buying a pair of Cypherus QFred earbuds after selling my AKG and Audio Technica earbuds...


----------



## vapman

Man those dudes in Indonesia are out of control... Send one of those aiwa to ol' vapman!!!!



ira delphic said:


> I love my MP but want to try something a few steps better. What other higher end earbud can be driven properly straight from a V10? I'm most interested in neutral sound - revealing highs and even mids, and tight, accurate (not overemphasized) bass.




V10 is pretty good at most higher impedance buds because over 75 ohms kicks it into high gain mode. I cant think of any high impedance bud that was not good on it. Earbuds and small and dont need gobs of power. But i will say of all high impedance buds i found TY 400 to be no better than Boarseman $20 buds.

Edit i did misread your question. Obviously i like TY 650 a good amount if you couldn't tell. Love Cygnus but sometimes the treble feels a bit flat. Asura 2.0 used to be ny go to "better treble than Cygnus" bud, then i gravitated to 90s Sony like those on previous page, then to Edimun v3... Right now its cygnus or TY 650 though... Zen 2 signature doesnt play as great with V10. I bet VX Pro would be nice...


----------



## purplesun

Aiwa! My first walkman was an Aiwa, I think it's this one.

 http://www.stereo2go.com/topic/aiwa-hs-j02-boxed-a-museum-piece
  
 Aiwa was a subsidiary for Sony and, hence, produced cheaper stuff than Sony.
 Was a poor student and had a bit of money saved from doing deliveries. I must have blew all of it on this baby!
 Hated the headband earphones though, swapped to earbuds the moment they got invented.
  
 C90 chrome tape, ftw!
  
 EDIT: It was TOTL for a non-Sony walkman then. FM stereo, auto-reverse, stereo recording, Chrome/metal bias. It was a spaceship! An Astell & Kern player of my day, if you will.


----------



## Willber

purplesun said:


> Aiwa! My first walkman was an Aiwa, I think it's this one.
> 
> http://www.stereo2go.com/topic/aiwa-hs-j02-boxed-a-museum-piece
> 
> ...


 

 Brings back memories! I had a Panasonic version which was dark brown but very good quality. I too went for earbuds as soon as I saw them. They were made by Trio in about 1982, if anyone has a picture of them please post it as I can't remember what they looked like!


----------



## purplesun

Bloody hell! Is there no young people in this earbud thread? I am starting to smell camphor, lotions and herbs in here! Quickly, there must be something about pokemon go or crazy selfie-photos etc that's earbud-related. Where my morning porridge?


----------



## mochill

I'm young


----------



## Taechanyz

How about Rose Masya ??


----------



## vapman

taechanyz said:


> How about Rose Masya ??


 
 I haven't heard anything since clieOS warning against trying it....


----------



## ld100

taechanyz said:


> How about Rose Masya ??


 
  
 This is the one I really want to find out about!


----------



## ClieOS

Replacement pair is incoming as we speak. Should be here by early next week.


----------



## ld100

So Monk Plus... Would going up in price in VE lineup remove that veil feeling and add clarity?


----------



## jrazmar

Is there anyone here who has the Shozy BK? I'm most excited to hear impressions about this one.


----------



## ClieOS

jrazmar said:


> Is there anyone here who has the Shozy BK? I'm most excited to hear impressions about this one.


 
  
 I am probably going to be the first to have it on HF, in a day or two.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> I am probably going to be the first to have it on HF, in a day or two.


 
 What happened to your original pair of Masya? Thought you ordered them early.
  
 By the way, is there any difference between driving the K's 500Ohm in unbalance mode?
 The Taobao page says the new version of the 500Ohm should be able to be sufficiently driven by any device with an output of 100mv at 32Ohms. Is that correct?

 Will these be able to drive the K's?
 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?_u=b2i926dj2a81&id=3680708664
  
 50mw @ 600Ohms
 600mw @ 16 Ohms


----------



## vapman

ld100 said:


> So Monk Plus... Would going up in price in VE lineup remove that veil feeling and add clarity?




Yes as the asura is the monk plus sound but with much better treble extension and clarity but the core sound signature is the same


----------



## ld100

clieos said:


> Replacement pair is incoming as we speak. Should be here by early next week.


 
  
 Greatly appreciate if you could post your opinion on them when you get them.


----------



## ld100

vapman said:


> Yes as the asura is the monk plus sound but with much better treble extension and clarity but the core sound signature is the same


 
  
 Are they harder to drive? 
  
 How about Candy?


----------



## WillTirta

clieos said:


> Replacement pair is incoming as we speak. Should be here by early next week.




How is the k earphone impression sir?
Need to hear some of it before decided to buy it..


----------



## vapman

ld100 said:


> Are they harder to drive?
> 
> How about Candy?


 

 No they are not harder to drive (they are 32 ohms). Candy is no different than a normal monk plus in sound.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> No they are not harder to drive (they are 32 ohms). Candy is no different than a normal monk plus in sound.


Candy 64 Ohm


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> Candy 64 Ohm


 

 i think Asura 2.0 32 ohm though?


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > Candy 64 Ohm
> ...


 
 It's 150 Ohms


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> It's 150 Ohms


 
 you are right, thank you for the correction
  
  i still find it basically easy to drive as monk.....


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> What happened to your original pair of Masya? Thought you ordered them early.
> 
> By the way, is there any difference between driving the K's 500Ohm in unbalance mode?
> The Taobao page says the new version of the 500Ohm should be able to be sufficiently driven by any device with an output of 100mv at 32Ohms. Is that correct?
> ...


 
  
 The first pair of Masya has a broken socket after my first attempt to unplug the cable - hence my warning about its build quality. A replacement pair has been sent by Rose Tech. and should be here sometime next week - and hopefully without any further issue.
  
 K's 500ohm is harder to driver than most earbuds, but it is not super hard to drive by itself. It will only be a concern if you know your source has a very low output volume.
  
 As mentioned before - no, balanced and unbalanced driven K's 500ohm doesn't really sound much different.
  


ld100 said:


> Greatly appreciate if you could post your opinion on them when you get them.


 
  
 Also mentioned before, I am quite impressed by Masya's SQ, at least before it is broken. It is probably the 2nd most impressive earbuds I have listened to in recent time after K's 500ohm.


----------



## AudioNewbi3 (Dec 19, 2017)

clieos said:


> The first pair of Masya has a broken socket after my first attempt to unplug the cable - hence my warning about its build quality. A replacement pair has been sent by Rose Tech. and should be here sometime next week - and hopefully without any further issue.
> 
> K's 500ohm is harder to driver than most earbuds, but it is not super hard to drive by itself. It will only be a concern if you know your source has a very low output volume.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the informative reply sifu. Seeing as you are impressed with the SQ of the Masya, I will most probably hold off the purchase of the K's. I want to see how those 2 compare.

 How did you manage to change the Masya? I assume you already have it when you decided to switch the cable. Did you send it back to China?


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> How did you manage to change the Masya? I assume you already have it in Malaysia when you decided to switch the cable. Did you send it back to China?


 
  
 I didn't send it back. They decided it is easier just to send me a replacement.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> I didn't send it back. They decided it is easier just to send me a replacement.


 
 Oh nice nice! Then I have a piece of mind if I ever decide to buy the Masya. Great to know they have such good customer service.

 BTW, did you tell them that you are from MY?


----------



## music4mhell

Is it only me ?
  
 I prefer Zen 2 over Cygnus


----------



## JASru

Yesterday I happened to try stock earbuds for M3 by Fiio. They ain't bad. Escpecially for bundled ones.
 I listened for a short while (less than an hour), but I should say they are well-made and sound like less refined version of RX-1.
 If you happen to buy M3 for a relative or a friend - try them out.


----------



## Danneq

A little more about Erqu EQ300.

 After a very good first impression I noticed a negative thing: there is a sort of echo or reverb or what you can call it that can affect calmer music. I also noticed that cymbals are affected and sound strange with a very "splashy" sound. That might be out of the box and go away when they have been used for a few hours.

 Other than that they sound very nice with a very balanced and natural sound. Like I wrote before: a sort of mix between the neutral sound of Monk plus and the fun sound of TY HiZ 32...

 This morning I noticed one thing.

 (I didn't take this photo)
  
 The vents in the back are not there to only look cool. I put my fingers on the vents and that made the sound become very compressed and distorted. EXACTLY the same as on Celsus Gramo One.

 Also, I used my trusty Cowon X5 this morning and I didn't notice that reverb effect and splashy sound of cymbals. I should try to burn them and see if it goes away...


----------



## Danneq

Another thing: does anyone know how to "open up" plastic that has been glued together?

 I'm thinking of recabling the Aiwa V99 and I need to open them up. There is like a small lid or hatch on them that you probably are supposed to open for access to the cable, and that has been glued shut.

 It can be seen in this picture:
  

 (I found this photo online)
  
 I'm thinking of using a thin razor and cut along the edges of the lid/hatch but that might not be enough.

 The soldering part itself shouldn't be any big problem since the previous owner left about 2-3 cm of the original wire soldered onto the drivers and then I only need to remove the wire that the guy soldered on and solder the new wires onto the wires connected to the drivers.

 But getting the cable into the housing, heck even getting access to the housings, seems to be a big challenge...


----------



## jfoxlim

purplesun said:


> Bloody hell! Is there no young people in this earbud thread? I am starting to smell camphor, lotions and herbs in here! Quickly, there must be something about pokemon go or crazy selfie-photos etc that's earbud-related. Where my morning porridge?


 

 They call it "good old days"..


----------



## luedriver

jfoxlim said:


> They call it "good old days"..


 
 do you mean before or after the year 2000?


----------



## kurtextrem

vapman said:


> Edit i did misread your question. Obviously i like TY 650 a good amount if you couldn't tell. Love Cygnus but sometimes the treble feels a bit flat. Asura 2.0 used to be ny go to "better treble than Cygnus" bud, then i gravitated to 90s Sony like those on previous page, then to Edimun v3... Right now its cygnus or TY 650 though... Zen 2 signature doesnt play as great with V10. I bet VX Pro would be nice...


 
 Finally I found someone with the same taste as I. And you use them sometimes for gaming too


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> Another thing: does anyone know how to "open up" plastic that has been glued together?
> 
> I'm thinking of recabling the Aiwa V99 and I need to open them up. There is like a small lid or hatch on them that you probably are supposed to open for access to the cable, and that has been glued shut.
> 
> ...


 
 Worse comes to worst maybe you can just snip off the cabled at the base of each of the housing and then re solder new wires to them?


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> BTW, did you tell them that you are from MY?


 
  
 can't recall if I have explicitly told them where I am, but it is obvious they know I am oversea since I am using Taobao forwarding service.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> can't recall if I have explicitly told them where I am, but it is obvious they know I am oversea since I am using Taobao forwarding service.


 
 Oh okay okay. Cause I always mention that I am an overseas buyer and I always tell them to double check the item before posting to avoid return trouble......


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Setup for tonight:


  
 The funk is strong with these.......
  
 BWB Album
  
 RB X3 + BPH-U1TPA6120 + SeaHF 320 V1 (MP Expansion pack rubber rings) = Let the funk begin


----------



## Ira Delphic

audionewbi3 said:


> danneq said:
> 
> 
> > Another thing: does anyone know how to "open up" plastic that has been glued together?
> ...


 
  
 There's the DIY earbud thread might be more helpful. But I doubt that would work for long.


----------



## golov17

ira delphic said:


> There's the DIY earbud thread might be more helpful. But I doubt that would work for long.


 To replace cable on OKER DS300 from Thailand, housing of earbuds heat to hairdryer, that glue became softer as like there very strong glue. You can also try


----------



## Ira Delphic

saoshyant said:


> Anyone want me to be a guinea pig and order VSonic VSD3P?


 
  
 Did you ever order the VSONIC VSD3P? I don't want you to be a guinea pig - but am waiting for some feedback. My favorite IEM (hate to mention in this thread) is the GR07 Classic, and hoping Vsonic will deliver with the VSD3P - and the price is right. From the photos I'm not crazy about the shell - looks like it *might* be delicate. I've been checking, no reviews yet.


----------



## rggz

Talking about the Shozy BK, I have seen two articles in Loxpo about them:

 http://www.loxpo.com/article-4621-1.html
 http://www.loxpo.com/article-4572-1.html

 Is there any native in Chinese in here which can help us translating the highlights points about the difference between BK and Cygnus? I know that is just an opinion although looks interesting know more about the signature of BK while ClieOS' pair won't arrives for bring us a good feedback.


----------



## Saoshyant

ira delphic said:


> Did you ever order the VSONIC VSD3P? I don't want you to be a guinea pig - but am waiting for some feedback. My favorite IEM (hate to mention in this thread) is the GR07 Classic, and hoping Vsonic will deliver with the VSD3P - and the price is right. From the photos I'm not crazy about the shell - looks like it *might* be delicate. I've been checking, no reviews yet.




Yep, ordered & left Hong Kong on the 6th, so no clue how long until estimated arrival.


----------



## golov17

It seems that at least a tough bass and vocals thinner, hmm (bk)


----------



## ld100

rggz said:


> Talking about the Shozy BK, I have seen two articles in Loxpo about them:
> 
> http://www.loxpo.com/article-4621-1.html
> http://www.loxpo.com/article-4572-1.html
> ...


 
  
 Using google translate I was able to read the highlights. Very positive and more expensive than white. Interesting...


----------



## Frederick Wang

rggz said:


> Talking about the Shozy BK, I have seen two articles in Loxpo about them:
> 
> http://www.loxpo.com/article-4621-1.html
> http://www.loxpo.com/article-4572-1.html
> ...


 
 slight improvement on imaging & instrumental separation, slightly more detailed, blacker background, more transparent driven by weaker sources, better than Cygnus for orchestral music and OST, bass goes deeper. Pretty much the differences.


----------



## Ira Delphic

ld100 said:


> rggz said:
> 
> 
> > Talking about the Shozy BK, I have seen two articles in Loxpo about them:
> ...


 
  
  Also not white is a big plus. I hope we never see white foams again.


----------



## rggz

ld100 said:


> Using google translate I was able to read the highlights. Very positive and more expensive than white. Interesting...


 
  
 Indeed, I can understand some points with google translator but not that clear about the sound.
  


frederick wang said:


> slight improvement on imaging, slightly more detailed, blacker background, more transparent driven by weaker sources, better than Cygnus for orchestral music and OST, bass goes deeper. Pretty much the differences.


 

 Oh thank you mate, very appreciate!


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> To replace cable on OKER DS300 from Thailand, housing of earbuds heat to hairdryer, that glue became softer as like there very strong glue. You can also try




I think this is your best bet Danneq at least for dealing with glue where glue should not live... I would also have some isopropyl and q tips ready to annihilate that glue...


----------



## vapman

kurtextrem said:


> Finally I found someone with the same taste as I. And you use them sometimes for gaming too




Actually have not tried ty 650 for gaming yet, would probably be fine though! I usually use my tv or listen to music during games to be honest...


----------



## ClieOS

ira delphic said:


> Did you ever order the VSONIC VSD3P? I don't want you to be a guinea pig - but am waiting for some feedback. My favorite IEM (hate to mention in this thread) is the GR07 Classic, and hoping Vsonic will deliver with the VSD3P - and the price is right. From the photos I'm not crazy about the shell - looks like it *might* be delicate. I've been checking, no reviews yet.


 
  
 It is one of those earbuds that a person won't miss if (s)he didn't buy it.
  


rggz said:


> ... I know that is just an opinion although looks interesting know more about the signature of BK while ClieOS' pair won't arrives for bring us a good feedback.


 
  
 Mine is already sitting in the nearest warehouse two days ago, but unfortunately the deliveryman is either too busy or too lazy to drop by. Oh well.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> It is one of those earbuds that a person won't miss if (s)he didn't buy it.


like Beyerdynamic dp100 and Edifier h186p


----------



## ballog

willtirta said:


> How is the k earphone impression sir?
> Need to hear some of it before decided to buy it..



Where can the K earbuds be bought?


----------



## Ira Delphic

clieos said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > Did you ever order the VSONIC VSD3P? I don't want you to be a guinea pig - but am waiting for some feedback. My favorite IEM (hate to mention in this thread) is the GR07 Classic, and hoping Vsonic will deliver with the VSD3P - and the price is right. From the photos I'm not crazy about the shell - looks like it *might* be delicate. I've been checking, no reviews yet.
> ...


 
  
 VSD3P... that's too bad. But thanks.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

My incoming earbud total just went from about 7, that I mentioned a few weeks ago, to now around 11.  Not sure why I need 11 more earbuds, but, there you go...  
  
 I'm not going to mention which ones they are yet, until they get to my door, but I hope they start arriving soon.  I'm getting antsy for some new buds..  
  
 Unfortunately, the one I wan the most, the new Black Shozy Cygnus, is not one of them.  Really want to get my ears on a set.  
  
 --


----------



## vapman

when Ali sellers ship 2 weeks after payment... so you write to them and ask what's up and they say "dont worry" and it says accepted the next day...


----------



## boblauer

vapman said:


> when Ali sellers ship 2 weeks after payment... so you write to them and ask what's up and they say "dont worry" and it says accepted the next day...


 
 Yep that's been my experience the last  time I ordered from NiceHCK. Order sits for days, I email and get "Friend Don't Worry we will ship" and a day or two later it's shipped but sat for 10 days. I'm not using them anymore, too slow to respond to the order.  I used AK and **** for my last 2 orders so will see with them and both shipped within days and it was during the national holiday.


----------



## vapman

BTW, does anyone else here own the Sony MDR E838?
  
 At the risk of driving up demand and costs before I ever get a second pair, I think they are scary close to MX985, and even better to my ears than E888....
  
 I also tried my TY 650 on my V10 without any EQ and was surprised at how light but controlled the bass is. It really EQ's well. It is not like the old 400 where you can't get rid of the big bass if you don't want it (I always do though).


----------



## Blueshound24

vapman said:


> BTW, does anyone else here own the Sony MDR E838?
> 
> At the risk of driving up demand and costs before I ever get a second pair, I think they are scary close to MX985, and even better to my ears than E888....
> 
> I also tried my TY 650 on my V10 without any EQ and was surprised at how light but controlled the bass is. It really EQ's well. It is not like the old 400 where you can't get rid of the big bass if you don't want it (I always do though).


 
 So having some time with the TY 650, would you say it's a refined version of the TY Hi-Z HP-32? More or less bass, treble, mids, soundstage?


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> I also tried my TY 650 on my V10 without any EQ and was surprised at how light but controlled the bass is. It really EQ's well. It is not like the old 400 where you can't get rid of the big bass if you don't want it (I always do though).


 
  
 Can you test the TY650 with a regular smartphone like Samsung, LG or iPhone? Whatever you can get you hands on.


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> Can you test the TY650 with a regular smartphone like Samsung, LG or iPhone? Whatever you can get you hands on.




I can try with a BlackBerry or gf's lg g4?


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> I can try with a BlackBerry or gf's lg g4?


 

 That's fine. Any phone that wasn't designed as an "audiophile" phone should be a good test.
 What a crazy world! A 650ohm earphone test with a Samsung Galaxy. This will put all the "More ohms = More power" experts in their place


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> That's fine. Any phone that wasn't designed as an "audiophile" phone should be a good test.
> What a crazy world! A 650ohm earphone test with a Samsung Galaxy. This will put all the "More ohms = More power" experts in their place




The TY 32 has some similarities to the 650, probably more than the monk...

I wrote this to another member over PM's and thought it would be helpful in response to your question...



> TY 150 is easy to drive and has good bass punch but not as deep as 400. 150 has nice vocals but rough treble.
> 400 is kinda crappy for vocals and upper mids are too rough IMO.
> 
> 650 is just the best of all TY. Great vocals, great stage, great treble and bass extension, smooth throughout. no roughness to speak of.
> ...


----------



## kinetic758

taechanyz said:


> How about Rose Masya ??




After hearing of ClieOS issues, I canceled my order. I also mentioned these issues to Rose and this is the response I got:

"there is a customer bought a Masya engineering earphone before, that earphone is not complete, the current pin is not the same as with the engineering, engineering earphone plug has some problems, but the engineering earphone cannot sell. Now the officially sold earphone do not have problem."

Not sure how to interpret the translation, but it seems they sent out some samples rather than final versions?


----------



## WillTirta

kinetic758 said:


> After hearing of ClieOS issues, I canceled my order. I also mentioned these issues to Rose and this is the response I got:
> 
> "there is a customer bought a Masya engineering earphone before, that earphone is not complete, the current pin is not the same as with the engineering, engineering earphone plug has some problems, but the engineering earphone cannot sell. Now the officially sold earphone do not have problem."
> 
> Not sure how to interpret the translation, but it seems they sent out some samples rather than final versions?



Copy the original mandarin let me help iterpret..hahaha


----------



## kinetic758

willtirta said:


> Copy the original mandarin let me help iterpret..hahaha




Oh that was the actual email that was sent. I'm assuming it went through a translator beforehand.


----------



## WillTirta

kinetic758 said:


> Oh that was the actual email that was sent. I'm assuming it went through a translator beforehand.



There is possibilities that it means..the earphone is not perfect..
I still order the masya btw..ahaha


----------



## kinetic758

willtirta said:


> There is possibilities that it means..the earphone is not perfect..
> I still order the masya btw..ahaha




Very interested to hear your thoughts on them! I reckon I'll eventually re-order them in the near future. While Rose may not always have the best build quality, they do try to make their customers happy (had to exchange a pair of Mojito and they were very apologetic about it).


----------



## badmod

What earbud is good for listening to podcasts and audiobooks? I prefer something with low impedance to use with a phone. I have MP and I don't know if it is worth getting something like shozy cygnus for that reason. I think this type of listening is not challenging for most earbuds but I spend a lot of time on it and I want to be gentle with my ears while I damage them.


----------



## music4mhell

badmod said:


> What earbud is good for listening to podcasts and audiobooks? I prefer something with low impedance to use with a phone. I have MP and I don't know if it is worth getting something like shozy cygnus for that reason. I think this type of listening is not challenging for most earbuds but I spend a lot of time on it and I want to be gentle with my ears while I damage them.


 
 RX-1 period.


----------



## vapman

badmod said:


> What earbud is good for listening to podcasts and audiobooks? I prefer something with low impedance to use with a phone. I have MP and I don't know if it is worth getting something like shozy cygnus for that reason. I think this type of listening is not challenging for most earbuds but I spend a lot of time on it and I want to be gentle with my ears while I damage them.


 

 qian39!
 so warm and gentle..
  
 rx1 could work too


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I was doing some cleaning tonight and came across these Sony MDR-A35 (earbud/earphones?)
  
 I popped them on and.... not bad, not bad at all.  Now I remember why I liked using these so much back in the day.  They have got to be alt least 15 years old, if not more.  They are very comfortable as well.
  
 It was a fun trip down memory lane listening to these:
  

  
  

  
 --


----------



## vapman

@purplesun 650 is fine on a plain smartphone. Not coming as a big surprise because it was good off my laptop and ipod mini 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Of course it's better amped and can go louder but it seems to be fine.


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> @purplesun 650 is fine on a plain smartphone. Not coming as a big surprise because it was good off my laptop and ipod mini
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oh no! I can hear my empty wallet slowing creaking open; the credit cards must be trying to make a break for freedom!!


----------



## music4mhell

My buy in this month, Roase Masya, K500, TY 320 Ohm


----------



## Ira Delphic

badmod said:


> What earbud is good for listening to podcasts and audiobooks? I prefer something with low impedance to use with a phone. I have MP and I don't know if it is worth getting something like shozy cygnus for that reason. I think this type of listening is not challenging for most earbuds but I spend a lot of time on it and I want to be gentle with my ears while I damage them.


 
  
 Audiobooks and podcasts are generally lower bitrate so IMO just about any earbud would be adequate. Is sound isolation important? If yes then IEM or headphones night be better. Consider getting earbud/earphone/iem with volume control and button controlls. They really come in handy.


----------



## gwompki

vapman said:


> qian39!
> so warm and gentle..
> 
> rx1 could work too


 
  
 I agree the RX1 are great for podcasts.  I use them daily for this purpose.


----------



## kurtextrem

music4mhell said:


> My buy in this month, Roase Masya, K500, TY 320 Ohm


 
 did you buy k500 balanced? And any specific reason for TY 320?


----------



## music4mhell

kurtextrem said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > My buy in this month, Roase Masya, K500, TY 320 Ohm
> ...


I have not bought yet, m waiting for seller to list on aliexpress..

the new TY 320 looks like zen 1 with cable, so i will give a shot...


----------



## JASru

music4mhell said:


> I have not bought yet, m waiting for seller to list on aliexpress..
> 
> the new TY 320 looks like zen 1 with cable, so i will give a shot...


 Which vendor gonna list 'em? Maybe I will get one too if listed on Ali, cuz don't wanna bother with tao


----------



## Nachash

What's the verdict on the VX Pro?


----------



## vapman

nachash said:


> What's the verdict on the VX Pro?


 
 everybody who has it seems to call it Baby Mojito, so i want one....


----------



## Nachash

vapman said:


> everybody who has it seems to call it Baby Mojito, so i want one....


 

 K, how does the Mojito sounds like?


----------



## vapman

nachash said:


> K, how does the Mojito sounds like?


 

 looks like our buddy @Tayyab Pirzada is the only one to have formally reviewed them 
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/rose-mojito/reviews
  
 very neutral very big soundstage and very detailed.


----------



## ld100

vapman said:


> looks like our buddy @Tayyab Pirzada is the only one to have formally reviewed them
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/rose-mojito/reviews
> 
> very neutral very big soundstage and very detailed.


 
  
 But you might want to read his posts after that review was done...


----------



## purplesun

How do you guys juggle between earbuds usage and IEMs usage?
  
 I made the mistake of going out for a walk last night with only earbuds (instead of my usual KZ ATE), thinking it would be safer in the dark to hear cars coming. But it was so noisy, the earbud's fidelity sounded like an AM radio. Was really missing my KZ ATE within a few minutes. But once I was back home, the earbuds came back into it own.
  
 So was wondering what kind of planning goes into how you go about juggling earbuds/IEMs, I suppose I could carry a bunch of IEMs and earbuds around with me all the time. But is there a better approach?


----------



## Raketen

purplesun said:


> How do you guys juggle between earbuds usage and IEMs usage?
> 
> I made the mistake of going out for a walk last night with only earbuds (instead of my usual KZ ATE), thinking it would be safer in the dark to hear cars coming. But it was so noisy, the earbud's fidelity sounded like an AM radio. Was really missing my KZ ATE within a few minutes. But once I was back home, the earbuds came back into it own.
> 
> So was wondering what kind of planning goes into how you go about juggling earbuds/IEMs, I suppose I could carry a bunch of IEMs and earbuds around with me all the time. But is there a better approach?




I used to have a habit of carrying around multiple headphones (even DAPs sometimes) everywhere, but since then shrunk my collection down to just a few favorites and now just pick one IEM for the day... don't like to use headphones when in public indoors spaces like cafes etc... so I don't usually bother with earbuds except at home or rural areas maybe.

 If you really prefer earbuds maybe you can find good set for low volume listening (when I had cm707 really liked them for that) but with a signature that isn't too bad in noisy areas... or get some of those covers like yurbuds or silicone rings that add isolation to use in louder areas.


----------



## vapman

I also don't like isolation outside and will usually wear only one bud at a time and listen at nearly nonexistent volumes. The Qian39 will always be a favorite not only under $10 but for fun quiet listening.


----------



## purplesun

Thing is for the longest time, I carry, in my jean pockets: a small wallet, small bunch of keys & a small smartphone. I don't have a bag. I usually stick an earbud or IEM, in small ziplock bag, into one of the pockets.
  
 After last night, it looks like I probably need to carry 2 or 3 earbud/IEM around. So was thinking of a small EDC (EveryDayCarry) case or pouch for the IEM/earbud. I would have to switch to a bullet-style IEM to save space. Probably an earbud with V-shape sound, like TY Hi-Z 32 for moderately noisy places. And a more accurate earbud sound for quieter places. I think that should cover me for just about any situations.
  
 Yeah, those silicon rings and yurbuds would be an interesting option for TY Hi-Z 32. Might even be able to drop the IEM, if the sound-proofing is sufficient.


----------



## ld100

Boarseman MX98S vs Boarseman MX98??
  
 Does anyone know what is the difference besides 20 dollars in cost?


----------



## music4mhell

jasru said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I have not bought yet, m waiting for seller to list on aliexpress..
> ...


 
 I am waiting, he said it will take few more days.
 I will buy Rose Masya and K500 both at same time. I will share the link once he list the product.


----------



## ClieOS

Received the Shozy BK - really amazing cable, probably the best I have ever seen on any earphone. More amazingly is its SQ. To put it short, it is the perfected Shozy Cygnus.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> Received the Shozy BK - really amazing cable, probably the best I have ever seen on any earphone. More amazingly is its SQ. To put it short, it is the perfected Shozy Cygnus.


Price?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

clieos said:


> Received the Shozy BK - really amazing cable, probably the best I have ever seen on any earphone. More amazingly is its SQ. To put it short, it is the perfected Shozy Cygnus.


 
 I'm waiting to see it on Aliexpress


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> Price?


 
  
 Official price is supposed to be RMB999, or about USD150 for the normal version. Balanced version (which I ordered) should be about USD165. I got it cheaper because I am a returned customer, plus pre-order special discount.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

clieos said:


> Official price is supposed to be RMB999, or about USD150 for the normal version. Balanced version (which I ordered) should be about USD165. I got it cheaper because I am a returned customer, plus pre-order special discount.


 
 u ordered off Tabao?


----------



## vapman

Hmmm... no balanced gear to use, but VE sells adapters for $5. would be an extra $15-20 for a connection I can't use, but maybe in the future i'd get something balanced...
  
 150 is a little steep IMO but if it's actually that much improved to be worth the cost of two Cygnus, it's tempting.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I pretty much only use Cygnus these days so I can't wait to get BK. And wow balanced edition will be great as my AK70 supports balanced option. It would be my first balanced headphone.


----------



## Danneq

purplesun said:


> How do you guys juggle between earbuds usage and IEMs usage?
> 
> I made the mistake of going out for a walk last night with only earbuds (instead of my usual KZ ATE), thinking it would be safer in the dark to hear cars coming. But it was so noisy, the earbud's fidelity sounded like an AM radio. Was really missing my KZ ATE within a few minutes. But once I was back home, the earbuds came back into it own.
> 
> So was wondering what kind of planning goes into how you go about juggling earbuds/IEMs, I suppose I could carry a bunch of IEMs and earbuds around with me all the time. But is there a better approach?




100% earbuds. I just hate the feel of IEMs. I do not need perfect isolation and can accept to hear outside noises. I listen resonably loud but not loud enough to traumatize my ears. I lower the volume once I come into a more quiet environment.
To counteract outside noises I always boost bass a bit, preferably sub bass (in Rockbox you can boost from 20 Hz).

I still miss a lot of detail, but when I listen on the go I do not need perfect fidelity...


----------



## ClieOS

tayyab pirzada said:


> u ordered off Tabao?


 
  
 Always, whenever I can anyway. It is almost always cheaper than AE, plus a pretty fast shipping (usually less than 2 weeks from order to receive), provided if you live in one of the country with official Taobao forwarding service.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

clieos said:


> Always, whenever I can anyway. It is almost always cheaper than AE, plus a pretty fast shipping (usually less than 2 weeks from order to receive), provided if you live in one of the country with official Taobao forwarding service.


 
 any input on how to order from Tabao? you need an agent right? i live in canada...


----------



## ClieOS

tayyab pirzada said:


> any input on how to order from Tabao? you need an agent right? i live in canada...


 
  
 If you are in one of those areas with Taobao forwarding service, you don't need an agent. You can just order it on Taobao and they will ship it to you.  These places include HK, Taiwan, S.E. Asia, Australia and NZ.
  
 Since you are not, you have to order it using some kind of agent service - MisterTao for example. In most case, AE seller are like agent as well. They just resell Taobao's stuff + extra fee.


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> any input on how to order from Tabao? you need an agent right? i live in canada...


 http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/537751451188.html


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/537751451188.html


 

 Is it not the same cable as the TY 650, @ClieOS ? it seems to be in these pics.
 Hopefully it is a bit softer, seahf/ty always had slightly stiff cables IMO...
 May get my first Mr. tao order together


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

150 USD is quite a bit though...wondering if it's worth it


----------



## airomjosh

clieos said:


> Official price is supposed to be RMB999, or about USD150 for the normal version. Balanced version (which I ordered) should be about USD165. I got it cheaper because I am a returned customer, plus pre-order special discount.


 

 i hope to see a shozy BK and Campfred comparison


----------



## ld100

tayyab pirzada said:


> 150 USD is quite a bit though...wondering if it's worth it




You probably paid more for Rose... if it is significantly better than current Cygnus I will grab one... But first I would love to hear how the new Rose is... i guess to me it is at least one of those two depending on which one will getter better reviews...


----------



## music4mhell

clieos said:


> Received the Shozy BK - really amazing cable, probably the best I have ever seen on any earphone. More amazingly is its SQ. To put it short, it is the perfected Shozy Cygnus.


 
 Can it enter into champion's league ? or it will be a contender like the old cygnus ?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

ld100 said:


> You probably paid more for Rose... if it is significantly better than current Cygnus I will grab one... But first I would love to hear how the new Rose is... i guess to me it is at least one of those two depending on which one will getter better reviews...


 
 yeah im gnna wait for reviews


----------



## ClieOS

vapman said:


> Is it not the same cable as the TY 650, @ClieOS
> ? it seems to be in these pics.




Nope. Haven't seen any cable quite as nice as this one on the BK.



music4mhell said:


> Can it enter into champion's league ? or it will be a contender like the old cygnus ?




Don't want to get too far ahead of myself as it is still on the burn in process. But as far as my initial impression goes, I don't see why not.


----------



## basketballTaco

The Tomahawk is like the perfect representation of my ideal sound signature. I really enjoy the strong midrange, deep but not powerful/emphasized bass, and the highs which have sparkle and energy. Is there another earbud which, based on those preferences, would be an upgrade from Tomahawk? If so, I will definitely save up for that earbud.


----------



## Danneq

tayyab pirzada said:


> 150 USD is quite a bit though...wondering if it's worth it


 

 I just ordered Cypherus QFred for $200 + $40 in shipping (EMS from Indonesia to Sweden). I would probably hesitate to pay that amount if I had not sold a bunch of earbuds to be able to finance that.

 Still, good earbuds can be worth $150-200.

 People buy custom IEMs for $500-1000, so why not a TOTL earbud for $150?


----------



## justvinh

clieos said:


> If you are in one of those areas with Taobao forwarding service, you don't need an agent. You can just order it on Taobao and they will ship it to you.  These places include HK, Taiwan, S.E. Asia, Australia and NZ.
> 
> Since you are not, you have to order it using some kind of agent service - MisterTao for example. In most case, AE seller are like agent as well. They just resell Taobao's stuff + extra fee.


 
 Can you please provide the taobao link?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> I just ordered Cypherus QFred for $200 + $40 in shipping (EMS from Indonesia to Sweden). I would probably hesitate to pay that amount if I had not sold a bunch of earbuds to be able to finance that.
> 
> Still, good earbuds can be worth $150-200.
> 
> People buy custom IEMs for $500-1000, so why not a TOTL earbud for $150?


 
 Oh looking forward to your impressions of the CampFred earbuds. Is the onw you bought with sliver housing?


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> Oh looking forward to your impressions of the CampFred earbuds. Is the onw you bought with sliver housing?


 

 CampFred is the older version, with black housing. QFred is newer with different tuning and silver housing.

 CampFred is discontinued but Herry Widjaya, who pretty much is Cypherus Audio X by himself, still has CampFred drivers and can custom make a pair if you ask him. CampFred costs $150 (excluding shipping costs).

 There's not much info on either CampFred or QFred. Here are some impressions of QFred on Head Pie.

 The writer on Head pie, Rudi0504, has heard Sennheiser MX985, Yuin PK1 & VE Zen 1 and QFred seems to have better instrument separation than those TOTL earbuds.


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> audionewbi3 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh looking forward to your impressions of the CampFred earbuds. Is the onw you bought with sliver housing?
> ...


 
 Could you please share the link to buy ?


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> Wow indian site :O
> Could you please share the link to buy ?


 

 Actually it's Indonesia (a lot of great DIY audio stuff seems to come out of Indonesia these days).

 You can get in touch with Herry on the Cypherus Audio X Facebook page.


----------



## Fabi

clieos said:


> Nope. Haven't seen any cable quite as nice as this one on the BK.



Wow the cable looks amazing, it feels very solid, especially on the connector side. And if the sound is as good.. Damn, as I remember, my ears don't fit very well with Yuin shells


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> CampFred is the older version, with black housing. QFred is newer with different tuning and silver housing.
> 
> CampFred is discontinued but Herry Widjaya, who pretty much is Cypherus Audio X by himself, still has CampFred drivers and can custom make a pair if you ask him. CampFred costs $150 (excluding shipping costs).
> 
> ...


 
 All hail King Rudi!


----------



## Danneq

Here is Lexus91's impressions of CampFred:


> The smaller brother of Cy Ax Golden Reference, the Camp Fred. "mass produced" (20 units for now, but i heard they are plan to make more in the future). It has similar tuning to the Golden Reference. amazing sound  balance. Still tops most TOTL earbuds (sounds unlike any other buds imo). good bass impact and texture. mids is well presented with hints of warmness. highs extended very well with no harshness (foam applied). I'd say compared to the gold ref its a tad brighter. the golden reference has fuller sound and scale better when given high power source. still for around $ 100 the Camp Fred is very good and will become my daily driver.


 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/4305#post_12543830


 If I like QFred I will probably ask if I can buy a CampFred as well...


----------



## ClieOS

It has been bother me for awhile - what is with these FB based earbuds maker? FB is just a terrible way of conducting business, even a small one.


----------



## JASru

danneq said:


> Here is Lexus91's impressions of CampFred:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/4305#post_12543830
> 
> 
> If I like QFred I will probably ask if I can buy a CampFred as well...


 
 Your impressions would be very welcome! 
 It is 240usd inc. shipping to Europe, right?


----------



## Danneq

clieos said:


> It has been bother me for awhile - what is with these FB based earbuds maker? FB is just a terrible way of conducting business, even a small one.


 


 Yeah, it's bad but doesn't cost anything for the seller. Cypherus Audio X is one who does it. Earbud Thailand (Black Onyx etc) is another.
 It appears that mainly smaller Indonesian DIYers use Facebook...

 I gave Herry of Cypherus my e-mail address in a Facebook message and then we did all talk through e-mail.

  


jasru said:


> Your impressions would be very welcome!
> It is 240usd inc. shipping to Europe, right?


 

 Yeah. And then fees depending on how you pay (bank transfer, Western Union or Paypal). Western union seemed to have the lowest fees with bank to bank transfer so I picked that...


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> It has been bother me for awhile - what is with these FB based earbuds maker? FB is just a terrible way of conducting business, even a small one.


 No problems with FB, in fact.. 
sufficiently large groups in Thailand and Indonesia to share photos and experiences. Join now


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> clieos said:
> 
> 
> > It has been bother me for awhile - what is with these FB based earbuds maker? FB is just a terrible way of conducting business, even a small one.
> ...


 
 When can you give your early impressions ?


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> When can you give your early impressions ?


 

 No idea. It seems that Indonesians send by EMS (same when I bought my Edimun V3 from Bengkel Macro) so it's a bit faster than regular registered shipping.
 Perhaps Herry will send the earbuds at the beginning of next week (he should get the money to his bank tomorrow). Then it should take up to 1 week for the QFred to reach me...


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > When can you give your early impressions ?
> ...


 
 I have to be patient now 
 Shhh......................................................


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> I have to be patient now
> Shhh......................................................


 


 I waited a long time for someone in this thread to buy a QFred but nothing. When I recently sold some earbuds (Audio Technica, & AKG + Yuin PK1) I got some money that I could take a chance with. I probably would not take a chance on a $200 earbud if I had to take money from my salary or savings...


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I have to be patient now
> ...


 
 Now i will put my some earbuds like TKy2 , Ostry and Seahf 400 to get some money


----------



## vapman

Glad some of you took/are taking the plunge on the QFred..... I will be awaiting reviews 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Seems like Indonesia is the spot to be getting new buds from


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> Now i will put my some earbuds like TKy2 , Ostry and Seahf 400 to get some money


 

 Damn it! I'm planning on buying both Musicmaker TKY2 and Ostry KC08 (without T).

 But now my spending money are used for 1-2 months. Only low budget stuff for a while...
  
  


vapman said:


> Glad some of you took/are taking the plunge on the QFred..... I will be awaiting reviews
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I hope someone else is ready to take a chance on CampFred.


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Now i will put my some earbuds like TKy2 , Ostry and Seahf 400 to get some money
> ...


 
 Ok i will send you both, you give the money once you get 
 Sounds fine with you ?


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> Ok i will send you both, you give the money once you get
> Sounds fine with you ?


 

 Thank you for the offer, it's very kind. But I think you should put them up for sale here on Head fi. There are some expenses for me and the family coming up in the coming months, so this is sort of my last spending spree for a while (I still want to buy Musicmaker TP16, but that's only something like $17-18).

 You could also try Ebay. I sold my AKG and Audio Technica buds there. I think it would be better for you to sell them on the international/US page than on Ebay India, though.

 I do not want to take your earbuds without being able to pay for them for perhaps 2 months...


----------



## ClieOS

justvinh said:


> Can you please provide the taobao link?


 
  
 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.SZH5RY&id=537751451188&_u=d1j64hnie9b8
  


danneq said:


> Yeah, it's bad but doesn't cost anything for the seller. Cypherus Audio X is one who does it. Earbud Thailand (Black Onyx etc) is another.
> It appears that mainly smaller Indonesian DIYers use Facebook...
> 
> I gave Herry of Cypherus my e-mail address in a Facebook message and then we did all talk through e-mail.
> ...


 
  
 There are way to do business without costing an arm and a leg, say less than the cost of a pair of QFred a year. While FB is free, relying purely on FB's PM and email isn't a proper way of doing business in the long run. Must give bengkelMACRO a big thumb-up for actually having a functional website.
  


golov17 said:


> No problems with FB, in fact..
> sufficiently large groups in Thailand and Indonesia to share photos and experiences. Join now


 
  
 I am not saying there is any problem, just that FB isn't setup properly as a business front.


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Ok i will send you both, you give the money once you get
> ...


 
 I have a frnd on Headfi who lives near to me, i will ask him to sell on behalf of me, he is a very old member and has done many trades.
 Let me know, if you are still interested, you are a very old and humble member. Take Ostry and TKY2 from me, give money after 3/4 months, no issue. In compliment you can send a vintage earbud to me after 3/4 months


----------



## Danneq

clieos said:


> There are way to do business without costing an arm and a leg, say less than the cost of a pair of QFred a year. While FB is free, relying purely on FB's PM and email isn't a proper way of doing business in the long run. Must give bengkelMACRO a big thumb-up for actually having a functional website.


 
  
 Yeah, that is true. I think it was pretty recently that Bengkel Macro got their web site. When I bought my pair of Edimun V3 just a few months ago I sent an email to them and we made the deal there.

 As I understand it, Herry of Cypherus works full time with a regular job and does the audio stuff on his free time. But I hope he'll get someone to help him with more practical stuff such as a website and those sort of things...
  
  


music4mhell said:


> I have a frnd on Headfi who lives near to me, i will ask him to sell on behalf of me, he is a very old member and has done many trades.
> Let me know, if you are still interested, you are a very old and humble member. Take Ostry and TKY2 from me, give money after 3/4 months, no issue. In compliment you can send a vintage earbud to me after 3/4 months


 

 Thanks again. You can check with your friend. I'll PM you if I find some spending money.

 Haha! I have got an old pair of earbuds (10 years) from an old iRiver MP3 player, but that is perhaps not what you were thinking of?


----------



## Saoshyant

Danneq I get the impression you'll like the TP16, it's talented for the price.

Tayyab Pirzada I might try the BK soon as I'm quite curious qhat a refined Cygnus will sound like.


----------



## vapman

I'll buy BK if it's exceptional at very low volumes.
 I listen to my favorite earbuds at seriously low levels, and must have my bass then too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 speaking of which, I think I'll do a formal TY 650 review today, after new laptop is set up.


----------



## HairyHeadMara

clieos said:


> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.SZH5RY&id=537751451188&_u=d1j64hnie9b8
> 
> 
> ClieOS Is there any way to change language setting in Taobao to English?


----------



## golov17

hairyheadmara said:


> > any way to change language setting in Taobao to English?
> 
> 
> https://translate.google.ru/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A//item.taobao.com/item.htm%3Fspm%3Da1z09.2.0.0.SZH5RY%26id%3D537751451188%26_u%3Dd1j64hnie9b8


----------



## vapman

hairyheadmara said:


> clieos said:
> 
> 
> > https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.SZH5RY&id=537751451188&_u=d1j64hnie9b8
> ...


 

 probably use Mistertao?


----------



## Saoshyant

Kind of off topic, but Steve Buscemi's album can sound a little piercing on Hi-Z 32, but haven't had a chance to compare vs other earbuds. I am not treble sensitive by any means whatsoever and even I winced. Do not try "The Right Spells" on treble-based earbuds if you're sensitive whatsoever. Also, this is a very very very odd song.


----------



## Ira Delphic

What kind of driver does the Shozy Black use? Do they design or manufacture their own driver?
  
 Also, I read that the drivers in the Cygnus are from old stock, never used, and once the drivers are gone it will be the end of that model. Is this confirmed? If true I may just have to pick up a Cygnus.


----------



## ld100

ira delphic said:


> What kind of driver does the Shozy Black use? Do they design or manufacture their own driver?
> 
> Also, I read that the drivers in the Cygnus are from old stock, never used, and once the drivers are gone it will be the end of that model. Is this confirmed? If true I may just have to pick up a Cygnus.


 
  
 I think the new black has new drivers. Not old stock. I might be wrong but I think I read it somewhere...


----------



## Blueshound24

ira delphic said:


> What kind of driver does the Shozy Black use? Do they design or manufacture their own driver?
> 
> Also, I read that the drivers in the Cygnus are from old stock, never used, and once the drivers are gone it will be the end of that model. Is this confirmed? If true I may just have to pick up a Cygnus.


 
 They use NOS drivers in the Cygnus, and yes they are in limited supply, so if you want one you should consider buying soon.


----------



## Ira Delphic

blueshound24 said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > What kind of driver does the Shozy Black use? Do they design or manufacture their own driver?
> ...


 
 What is the best source? I'm in US.


----------



## music4mhell

blueshound24 said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > What kind of driver does the Shozy Black use? Do they design or manufacture their own driver?
> ...


 
 I am a newbie, what is NOS drivers ?


----------



## Ira Delphic

music4mhell said:


> blueshound24 said:
> 
> 
> > ira delphic said:
> ...


 
 New Old Stock


----------



## Karl2009

Hi, can you recommended me one with mic (max 50 - 60$). It could be added from the Clios's list which of them includes mic.


----------



## music4mhell

karl2009 said:


> Hi, can you recommended me one with mic (max 50 - 60$). It could be added from the Clios's list which of them includes mic.


 
 From my exp you have 3 choices,
  
 1. TP16
 2. Monk+
 3. 1More
  
 Others are not of high quality.


----------



## Lionlian

karl2009 said:


> Hi, can you recommended me one with mic (max 50 - 60$). It could be added from the Clios's list which of them includes mic.




I will recommended Sony EX750ap instead of earbud with mic, seriously.


----------



## JASru

Crap. I am already tearing myself apart while choosing between VX, Ting, 650 and edimun, while still needing an amp. Everything seems to be so fine. 
 And now I get to know that Cygnus may cease to exist soon and I haven't listened to it. FUUUUUUUUUU..... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well, gotta be patient and wait.


----------



## music4mhell

jasru said:


> Crap. I am already tearing myself apart while choosing between VX, Ting, 650 and edimun, while still needing an amp. Everything seems to be so fine.
> And now I get to know that Cygnus may cease to exist soon and I haven't listened to it. FUUUUUUUUUU.....
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I was at your stage few months back.
 Now i owned almost all high end earbuds 
  
 Still so many left to buy + Focal Elear headphone 
  
 This hobby is so bad, and i just a newbie..!!


----------



## golov17

Until now regret that I did not jump on the TM7 at one time


----------



## Brian Coffey

golov17 said:


> Until now regret that I did not jump on the TM7 at one time


 
  
 No regret now because of all the new stuff coming out?


----------



## golov17

brian coffey said:


> No regret now because of all the new stuff coming out?


no


----------



## Lionlian

Is much more easier to find e484 than TM7 in my region,you have my condolences.


----------



## golov17

lionlian said:


> Is much more easier to find e484 than TM7 in my region,you have my condolences.


thanks


----------



## golov17

My condolences to those earbuds lovers from Thailand, who is mourning the death of their King. RIP


----------



## Raketen

saoshyant said:


> Kind of off topic, but Steve Buscemi's album can sound a little piercing on Hi-Z 32, but haven't had a chance to compare vs other earbuds. I am not treble sensitive by any means whatsoever and even I winced. Do not try "The Right Spells" on treble-based earbuds if you're sensitive whatsoever. Also, this is a very very very odd song.




Steve Buscemi has an album?! h34r:


----------



## Townyj

Just made an acc to buy the Shozy BK  having a bit of trouble using my phone to get the purchase done. But ive made my acc now.


----------



## teston

Though I don't have any TOTL earbuds atm but I won't hesitate to jump on MX985, TM7 and VE Zen 1 if they show up since they are claimed to be the Kings by many people


----------



## golov17

golov17 said:


> Thailand continues to amaze! 70 Ohm earbuds Frigga DS1


 btw, 600 usd LE


----------



## Townyj

teston said:


> Though I don't have any TOTL earbuds atm but I won't hesitate to jump on MX985, TM7 and VE Zen 1 if they show up since they are claimed to be the Kings by many people :etysmile:




Seen two pairs of Zen 1 available on indonesia earbud lovers fb page just tonight.


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> btw, 600 usd LE


 
 $600 and you can see the glue....


----------



## Danneq

So who's going to take a chance on this $600 earbud? (that looks like a pipe)


----------



## ClieOS

ira delphic said:


> What kind of driver does the Shozy Black use? Do they design or manufacture their own driver?


 
  
 Sourced from Japan, if I am not mistaken.


----------



## Frederick Wang

danneq said:


> So who's going to take a chance on this $600 earbud? (that looks like a pipe)


 
 I know I'm not gonna
 The quirky look alone discourages me from putting faith in the sound...


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> So who's going to take a chance on this $600 earbud? (that looks like a pipe)


 the owners do not come to this topic


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> $600 and you can see the glue....


all sold


----------



## Danneq

How many were made?


----------



## ld100

golov17 said:


> btw, 600 usd LE


 
  
  
 I am sorry, but this is just ugly...


----------



## jant71

Uggh, that thing would fall out of my ears faster than an RX-1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't move! Just don't move!


----------



## vapman

Yeah fine by me if I never heard one. lol. That weird cap on front is so off putting...
  
 I wonder if Shozy BK driver is the same as Cygnus but retuned...


----------



## ryanjsoo

How does the Yuin PK1 compare to the newer earbuds out there? is it still competitive with earbuds such as the VE Asura and Cygnus for example? Thanks.


----------



## vapman

ryanjsoo said:


> How does the Yuin PK1 compare to the newer earbuds out there? is it still competitive with earbuds such as the VE Asura and Cygnus for example? Thanks.


 

 still good but very much going to seem like a one trick pony compared to the all rounders that can be bought nowadays
 please note its been over 6 years since i last used one...


----------



## fairx

To guys hoping to get the old ty hi-z Hp320M that looks like old zen I'm not happy to inform that I Got the new one instead. With black shell and braided cable as oppose to white shell and white normal cable. 


edit

OOTB my samsung s can drive them to listening level at 0 db. had to unlock the extra 5 db using voodoo sound. however more than that the sound of highs is piercing. Tested with iPhone 5 and it can get louder that SGS at 0 db. will test a few song before pairing with my amp.


----------



## luedriver

anyone else noticed that the cygnus black is almost as much as a zen 2.0?
  
 it kinda makes a triangle in mind, with cygnus bk, ty hi-z hp650 (150aud) and zen 2.0
  
  
 almost want to put money down on the hp650, but was waiting for a while to get the zen 2.0, and now the cygnus bk, is giving the other 2 competition, its hard to choose
  
  
 although, since I have the cygnus white, I might go for either the zen or the 650, and it seems like the zen is in limited supply, "early bird"
  
  
 still hard to imagine myself giving up to 200 aud for earbuds, or that I am almost okay with it...


----------



## purplesun

fairx said:


> OOTB my samsung s can drive them to listening level at 0 db. had to unlock the extra 5 db using voodoo sound. however more than that the sound of highs is piercing. Tested with iPhone 5 and it can get louder that SGS at 0 db. will test a few song before pairing with my amp.


 
  
 By most accounts, the TY range of earbuds sound pretty bad OOTB. They seems to get sweeter only after 3 full days or more of burn-in. Sad that it doesn't have the HP320M's smooth silver cable though.


----------



## fairx

purplesun said:


> By most accounts, the TY range of earbuds sound pretty bad OOTB. They seems to get sweeter only after 3 full days or more of burn-in. Sad that it doesn't have the HP320M's smooth silver cable though.


 
 yeah. I usually tried documenting my findings here so I can have some records of how the sound change over time and also might be useful for other potential buyers too. I'm pairing them with my O2 now and put VE foam.
  
 It does show potentials though. rolling through my usual playlist.
  
 about the TY HP320OHM I file a complain to seller and we'll see soon (not dispute in case I really have something good with current earbud).
  
 Oh, on my O2 I can get comfortable listening level on low gain (low gain 1x, high gain 3.3x version) at 3-4 oclock. my source is only 1vms output I reckon.


----------



## fairx

within the 1st hour I change my source to iPhone 5 and high gain on O2. it's freakish how the bass is chameleon like and the dynamic is excellent. if you ask me if this is step up from TY 32 ohm HELLA YES IT IS!!


----------



## tinkertailor

ryanjsoo said:


> How does the Yuin PK1 compare to the newer earbuds out there? is it still competitive with earbuds such as the VE Asura and Cygnus for example? Thanks.


 
 I don't know, but I know the yuin pk2 and pk3 still destroy. I have hunted through various Dasetn, the ve monk and monk plus, diy yuin and others and none of them have quite got that quliaty of sound. The only other buds I've tried that are at that level are vintage sonys, which are my favourite types of buds (broad i know). I'm stuck in an earbud vortex right deciding wether i should buy some yuin pk2s or take a leap. Cygnus BKs look interesting.


----------



## ryanjsoo

tinkertailor said:


> I don't know, but I know the yuin pk2 and pk3 still destroy. I have hunted through various Dasetn, the ve monk and monk plus, diy yuin and others and none of them have quite got that quliaty of sound. The only other buds I've tried that are at that level are vintage sonys, which are my favourite types of buds (broad i know). I'm stuck in an earbud vortex right deciding wether i should buy some yuin pk2s or take a leap. Cygnus BKs look interesting.


 
  
 Thanks, I just picked up a set of vintage KOSS earbuds, might get a pk1 or pk3, whichever pops up in AUS since I really like the Yuin housing.


----------



## istlove

My K's earbud 150ohm is good. Next i'll buy 500ohm version.


----------



## tinkertailor

you need to have an amp to drive the pk1s properly.


----------



## luedriver

tinkertailor said:


> you need to have an amp to drive the pk1s properly.


 
 weird, huh, pk1 is 150ohm and needs an amp but the hp650 is 650ohm and might not need one, funny how earbuds are
  
 it's not the first time I read that the yuin's need amp, either, even tyll from innerfidelity had said the same thing a while back


----------



## tinkertailor

tbh that is weird, i'm very surprised a 650 ohm pair of earbuds don't need an amp. I tried the yuin pk1s with my iphone and they would not go to volume levels that I prefer to listen to music at. Im no expert by always assumed 150 or more definetly needed an amp


----------



## msknight

Recommendation needed please....
  
 I normally use open back headphones, but have a need for something in-ear to avoid mussing my hair during some events.
  
 I'm not looking for wonderful performance, and I had the Sennheiser IE60 on my wish list at £100, but it recently rose to more than £140 and I thought... meh.
  
 If there is such a thing as an open-back IE, that would be great because I'd like to hear anything dramatic going on around me... although at times I'd really like to cut out the noise of building works, I know I need to be safe.
  
 Not looking for anything earth shattering, just something that's comfortable to use and flat response. I guess £100 is my target, but I can go a little higher if justified. They'll be used in the AK70 which I bought primarily for listening in hotel rooms. (and which now seems to be end of life just a short while after launch.  Gah!)


----------



## haiku

msknight said:


> Recommendation needed please....
> 
> I normally use open back headphones, but have a need for something in-ear to avoid mussing my hair during some events.
> 
> ...


 

 Wrong thread, yo. This is earbuds only.


----------



## msknight

Earbud recommendations welcome. "in ear" to me is ... not a headphone


----------



## purplesun

msknight said:


> Earbud recommendations welcome. "in ear" to me is ... not a headphone


 
  
 There's TY Hi-Z HP650 for $99. Just released. And looks like it's going to be quite high up the sound quality ranking. @vapman should have his review out any day now.


----------



## msknight

Thanks.... I'll take a look and keep an eye out.


----------



## Pasopati

istlove said:


> My K's earbud 150ohm is good. Next i'll buy 500ohm version.


 
 share some impression perhaps?


----------



## Tomasz2D

msknight said:


> Earbud recommendations welcome. "in ear" to me is ... not a headphone


 
  

Music Preferences
  Abraham to ZZ Top. Lately I'm particularly in to Euge Groove, John Barry, Disturbed and some synth (soundtracks to Airwolf, Star Fleet and that sort of stuff)
  
 I think you can start with AuGlamour RX-1 for about $25.


----------



## Karl2009

music4mhell said:


> From my exp you have 3 choices,
> 
> 1. TP16
> 2. Monk+
> ...


 
  
 Thanks, TP16 ordered.


----------



## JASru

karl2009 said:


> Thanks, TP16 ordered.


 
 Check that the version you ordered is with mic. Just to be sure.
 I know that's a Captain Obvious' advice, but still =)


----------



## music4mhell

jasru said:


> karl2009 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks, TP16 ordered.
> ...


 
 I agree, Penon doesn't have Mic version. Only **** has on Ali


----------



## vapman

Hey guys - I felt like writing tonight so I spent some time reviewing the *TY Hi-Z 650* formally 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/ty-hi-z-650/reviews/17070
  
 Check it out!


----------



## fairx

vapman said:


> Hey guys - I felt like writing tonight so I spent some time reviewing the *TY Hi-Z 650* formally
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/ty-hi-z-650/reviews/17070
> 
> Check it out!


 
 Nice writing @vapman!!!


----------



## msknight

I'm facing a decision... as the pound is sinking faster than a lead baloon, I might take the punt on the HP-650 as @vapman detailed that they have a good neutral signature once burned in.... and if that works for me then they'll do double duty in hotel rooms... possibly.
  
 I've also read some other reviews and the HP-650's are being well received. On the other hand, I could go for some of the sub-£50 suggestions and save some cash. Decisions decisions. I'm leaning towards the HP-650. I'll make a decision this evening, depending on what else I read... on the exchange rate news, as well as the Hi-Fi reviews 
  
 Thanks to all for the suggestions so far.


----------



## vapman

msknight said:


> I'm facing a decision... as the pound is sinking faster than a lead baloon, I might take the punt on the HP-650 as @vapman detailed that they have a good neutral signature once burned in.... and if that works for me then they'll do double duty in hotel rooms... possibly.
> 
> I've also read some other reviews and the HP-650's are being well received. On the other hand, I could go for some of the sub-£50 suggestions and save some cash. Decisions decisions. I'm leaning towards the HP-650. I'll make a decision this evening, depending on what else I read... on the exchange rate news, as well as the Hi-Fi reviews
> 
> Thanks to all for the suggestions so far.


 

 What do you have so far for buds?
  
 If the answer is nothing i'd probably get a couple sub 50 ones before going for the big boys. At least you'd have a better idea if the signature you think you're after isn't exactly what you actually like best!


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> Hey guys - I felt like writing tonight so I spent some time reviewing the *TY Hi-Z 650* formally
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/ty-hi-z-650/reviews/17070
> 
> Check it out!


 
 Awesome, mine is on the way.
 Thanks buddy


----------



## msknight

vapman said:


> What do you have so far for buds?
> 
> If the answer is nothing i'd probably get a couple sub 50 ones before going for the big boys. At least you'd have a better idea if the signature you think you're after isn't exactly what you actually like best!


 

  I don't. Currently use headphones. Sen HD600 are my faves, followed by Beyer 9990 Pro. Suddenly have a need for something that doesn't have a headband.


----------



## JASru

msknight said:


> I don't. Currently use headphones. Sen HD600 are my faves, followed by Beyer 9990 Pro. Suddenly have a need for something that doesn't have a headband.


 
 Getting RX-1 regardless of 650 would be a good idea - they have decenta package, they have good build, they are very well with vocals and guitars. And they are cheap. I managed to get one for sub 20usd inc. delivery.

 Additionally if MX-500 happen to be too big for your ears - RX-1 is smaller. I haven't met a person for whom it would be big. If they are too small - earhooks do the trick.
  
 Getting 650 might be a very good idea, but given you have no idea how they will fit is a bit risky. Try finding someone with mx-shell earbuds and try them out before buying.


----------



## purplesun

Just checked on Ali, there's a store selling TY Hi-Z HP650 at $99 that gives $4 shop discount above $80 spent.
  
 Not many sellers at $99, so just search Ali & click on store homepage to look for the coupons.
  
 Note: Am not sure if linking to store is frowned upon, so I left that out.


----------



## msknight

Thanks everyone... I think I'll take the plunge and go for the HP650 before the pound sinks any lower.
  
 There are enough positive reviews to give me faith that the money will be well spent.


----------



## fairx

Ty Hi-z Hp320

After 10 hour burn I'm getting a lot of PRAT. Reminds me a lot of final audio heaven vii iem. And oh.. Alexis Cole is singing in front of me.!!


----------



## Ira Delphic

jasru said:


> msknight said:
> 
> 
> > I don't. Currently use headphones. Sen HD600 are my faves, followed by Beyer 9990 Pro. Suddenly have a need for something that doesn't have a headband.
> ...


 
  
 I agree with you - I can't imagine having only one earbud. But some (most?) people only have the one pair and basically use it until it no longer works.


----------



## Willber

karl2009 said:


> Hi, can you recommended me one with mic (max 50 - 60$). It could be added from the Clios's list which of them includes mic.


 

 I've been listening to the 1more EO320 for a few days and they are very good. Mids and highs similar to the RX-1 but with deeper bass and wider soundstage. I recommend them but I don't think they are on the list yet (they are quite new):
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1More-Piston-Pod-Earbud-Headphones-Headset-Earphone-with-Remote-Mic-Retail-Box-for-Xiaomi-Note-Mi/32660452812.html
  
 Very well built and packaged as well. A bargain for $23.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

ira delphic said:


> But some (most?) people only have the one pair and basically use it until it no longer works.


 
  
 Wait, some people only have one earbud?  What?!?  How do you even call that living?


----------



## badmod

msknight said:


> I don't. Currently use headphones. Sen HD600 are my faves, followed by Beyer 9990 Pro. Suddenly have a need for something that doesn't have a headband.




Take a look at shozy Cygnus. It is about $90 and it's well received. It is also very comfortable and sound good unamped. The 650 will need an amp and it's very new and people might be in honeymoon phase with it. Sorry I don't have any of them and I'm also looking for one, but from what I see the shozy is one of few earbuds everyone likes if you don't mind a white cable turns into green. Also AUGLAMOUR RX-1 with similar sound at lower price but has polarized reviews and the fit is an issue for some. 

You can't go wrong with Monk Plus or TY Hi-Z 32ohm for $5-8. You save money and see if you like earbuds.

BTW, you need a quiet environment to enjoy earbuds.


----------



## Danneq

K's 500 ohm earbuds can now be found on Ali express
  
 Let them know that you are members of Head fi and write on the earbuds threads and you might get some discount...


----------



## Ira Delphic

bloodypenguin said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > But some (most?) people only have the one pair and basically use it until it no longer works.
> ...


 
  
 Tell me about it! Look around at people not on Head-Fi. One, maybe two - iem, earbud or on ear. If they have two, one is for the gym. We're not like everybody else.
 I think 2% of the people own 90% of the gear!


----------



## kvad

danneq said:


> K's 500 ohm earbuds can now be found on Ali express
> 
> Let them know that you are members of Head fi and write on the earbuds threads and you might get some discount...


 

 ​Nice! Anyone got any idea what the difference between version 1 and 2 is?


----------



## Raketen

ira delphic said:


> I agree with you - I can't imagine having only one earbud. But some (most?) people only have the one pair and basically use it until it no longer works.




I miss those days of innocence :rolleyes:


----------



## JASru

Any info if other K's are worth getting?
  
 There is at least two more versions (64,150 and I heard abot 1k if I am not mistaken)


----------



## vapman

I hope the other K's earphone models get some kind of review. Interested to try one.

Edit: are those Blox shells on the K's?


----------



## Tomasz2D

jasru said:


> Any info if other K's are worth getting?
> 
> There is at least two more versions (64,150 and I heard abot 1k if I am not mistaken)


 
 I have ordered 500 Ohm and 64 Ohm Ks in the beginning of September but they are still in the mail. Probable I will get them in the next week. I waited something like 2 weeks for K's to ship them to Bhiner agent. Maybe they are made to order.


----------



## Tomasz2D

badmod said:


> Take a look at shozy Cygnus. It is about $90 and it's well received. It is also very comfortable and sound good unamped. The 650 will need an amp and it's very new and people might be in honeymoon phase with it. Sorry I don't have any of them and I'm also looking for one, but from what I see the shozy is one of few earbuds everyone likes if you don't mind a white cable turns into green. Also AUGLAMOUR RX-1 with similar sound at lower price but has polarized reviews and the fit is an issue for some.
> 
> You can't go wrong with Monk Plus or TY Hi-Z 32ohm for $5-8. You save money and see if you like earbuds.
> 
> BTW, you need a quiet environment to enjoy earbuds.


 
 My recommendation of RX-1 was based on msknight's favorite music listed on msknight's profile page. I didn't find there any hip-hop stars so I thought RX-1 may pair pretty well with that music. But of course there are multiple good choices. As for RX-1, it has special place in my earbuds collection - this is my reference earbud for neutral and transparent sound. If we may think of all earbuds as placed on different points of spider's web, RX-1 would be a spider sitting right in the center hub. It is easy to navigate from here later into any preferable direction. Getting few cheaper buds for the start is also very good idea - these will become beacons that will help the beginner to navigate  through the endless sea of earbuds...


----------



## boblauer

tomasz2d said:


> My recommendation of RX-1 was based on msknight's favorite music listed on msknight's profile page. I didn't find there any hip-hop stars so I thought RX-1 may pair pretty well with that music. But of course there are multiple good choices. As for RX-1, it has special place in my earbuds collection - this is my reference earbud for neutral and transparent sound. If we may think of all earbuds as placed on different points of spider's web, RX-1 would be a spider sitting right in the center hub. It is easy to navigate from here later into any preferable direction. Getting few cheaper buds for the start is also very good idea - these will become beacons that will help the beginner to navigate  through the endless sea of earbuds...


 
 I agree with this. Starting out with a higher end earbud when you've never used them could cause some dissatisfaction with the entire earbud genre if you will. I would get the RX1 or TP16 or maybe even a Yuin PK3 and see which fits best, the sound signature you like(the 3 are pretty similar slight variations of the same signature). What you don't like sell or gift as none of those is over $25 each.  From there jump into the deep end. Heck I'd even suggest getting an MP first to even see if you like earbuds, my wife does not like them at all so any no matter the cost or value are desirable to her, she steals my IEM's all the time.


----------



## Fabi

kvad said:


> ​Nice! Anyone got any idea what the difference between version 1 and 2 is?


 
 Version 2 is a sort of Black Edition with supposedly better cable 1964JH which is also on TY earbuds and the fancy carbon fiber jack plug.
 On Taobao, it says it's MX500 shells.
 I'll wait for K's 600 Black Edition
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and an other amp


----------



## purplesun

Where on aliexpress/ebay/taobao can I buy ear foams that have similar physical properties (fluffy & porous) as VE Monk's orange ear foams?
 The cheap black ones sold are just too thin and "opaque".
  
 I need a bag of those, in any colour.
 Thanks.


----------



## cingcut

purplesun said:


> Where on aliexpress/ebay/taobao can I buy ear foams that have similar physical properties (fluffy & porous) as VE Monk's orange ear foams?
> The cheap black ones sold are just too thin and "opaque".
> 
> I need a bag of those, in any colour.
> Thanks.




i ordered this yesterday. colourful. lol
http://s.aliexpress.com/FRzQrmIJ


----------



## purplesun

cingcut said:


> i ordered this yesterday. colourful. lol


 
  
 I suppose I did say any colour 
 Hmmm... I need some M&Ms right now.


----------



## cingcut

purplesun said:


> I suppose I did any any colour
> Hmmm... I need some M&Ms right now.



but no orange. sorry. 
maybe some donut too. 
 http://s.aliexpress.com/uQ3iey2M


----------



## purplesun

cingcut said:


> but no orange. sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I hear you on the donuts (no pun intended), for the life of me, I simply don't know how to put on the run-of-the-mill black donut foams. It flip flops all over the place, except properly on the circumference of the earbud. Will the Hiegi donuts, that everyone talks about, be any easier?


----------



## ld100

What Dac/Amp do you guys use with your earbuds with your computers? Is there any benefit from having an amp for earbud that does not require an amp?
  
 I am using DFB and it sounds good, but no volume control is annoying... Any advise would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## purplesun

ld100 said:


> What Dac/Amp do you guys use with your earbuds with your computers? Is there any benefit from having an amp for earbud that does not require an amp?
> I am using DFB and it sounds good, but no volume control is annoying... Any advise would be greatly appreciated.


 
  
 Fiio E10K Dac with Foobar2k (ASIO@24/96). Not very airy. Quite flat FR. Has a usable/natural bass boost. And a scratchy carbon-slider volume knob.
 I don't amp my earphones as they are all easy to drive, mainly because they are mostly used on my smartphones when I am out and about.


----------



## ClieOS

ld100 said:


> What Dac/Amp do you guys use with your earbuds with your computers? Is there any benefit from having an amp for earbud that does not require an amp?
> 
> I am using DFB and it sounds good, but no volume control is annoying... Any advise would be greatly appreciated.


 
  
 Chord Mojo or iFi micro iDAC. It is less so on whether the earbuds need amping but more so to have a really capable source in order to listen to the earbuds at its fullest potential. I reckon there isn't anything under $1K that will be significantly (or simply just) better than either one of them, or least I haven't find any.


----------



## vapman

I also find earbuds which dont need any amping are almost 100% of the time massively improved with a nice sounding source. The quality of your source (really the DAC) is the biggest part - also explains why the Mojo is so damn good even with budget earbuds.


----------



## ClieOS

I got asked a few times of the same question already, so I thought I'll answer it here: for K's 500ohm, version 1 comes with SPOFC cable. Version 2 comes with upgraded (thicker?) SPOFC cable and a better plug and cable divider. Balanced version is baaically V.2 with balanced plug.


----------



## tintheman

Could I ask if anyone tried this kind of DIY earbuds?
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/diy-PK1-earphone-original-150ohms-red-film-driver/32685183737.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000013.8.hKe7Rd&scm=1007.13339.33317.0&pvid=66a736fe-c160-4f8d-b633-e50abc4da48d&tpp=1


----------



## golov17

there are no guarantees the authenticity of the drivers actually..


----------



## tintheman

Thanks, I guess I will avoid these...


----------



## golov17

In the past, I bought PK2 DIY with very good sound and Furutech cable, but it has exhausted its supply of good drivers and not made for sales them more, unfortunately..


----------



## tintheman

So these PK1 drivers will be more scarce...not worth to take a chance...


----------



## vapman

tintheman said:


> So these PK1 drivers will be more scarce...not worth to take a chance...


 

 Definitely buy a real Yuin PK1 if you want that driver


----------



## golov17

At the moment, a very large selection of different earbuds for every taste and budget, so that anyone can choose desired for itself, IMHO


----------



## kurtextrem

ClieOS, sir, I would very much appreciate if you could give me your opinion:
 As the K's 500 is on Aliexpress now and HeadFi members get a really nice discount, I'm very interested. But Shozy BK and Rose Masya.
 I like the Asura 2, but the Cygnus is slightly better for gaming.
 Which one would you rather take and why?


----------



## ld100

clieos said:


> Chord Mojo or iFi micro iDAC. It is less so on whether the earbuds need amping but more so to have a really capable source in order to listen to the earbuds at its fullest potential. I reckon there isn't anything under $1K that will be significantly (or simply just) better than either one of them, or least I haven't find any.


 
  
 iFi might work. I don't think I want Mojo cause of the form factor... Anxiously waiting for you BK & new Rose impressions...


----------



## Tomasz2D

clieos said:


> Chord Mojo or iFi micro iDAC.


 
 For headphones that's iDAC and not iDSD ?


----------



## vapman

Only thing to note about Mojo is it is not so much for those with primarily MP3 collections. It really brings out the flaws in MP3s.... iFi and other sabre/akm/ESS/etc chipsets will be more forgiving to lossy audio.


----------



## ClieOS

kurtextrem said:


> ClieOS, sir, I would very much appreciate if you could give me your opinion:
> As the K's 500 is on Aliexpress now and HeadFi members get a really nice discount, I'm very interested. But Shozy BK and Rose Masya.
> I like the Asura 2, but the Cygnus is slightly better for gaming.
> Which one would you rather take and why?




I'll get back to you once I have enough time with BK.



tomasz2d said:


> For headphones that's iDAC and not iDSD ?




Yes, I mean micro iDSD. I have Micro iDAC as well, it is also a really good DAC/amp, though iDSD is just a little better overall. But if you dont need it to be protable, iDAC will be more than suffice.


----------



## ballog

What do you guys think of Xduoo XD-05 for earbuds - Monk+, RX1 and in the future high impedance buds? The XD-05 is currently $153 on Gearbest - seems too good to be true!


----------



## Blueshound24

If anyone is interested, Massdrop has the Yuin Pk3 for $24 + $2.75 shipping for two more days.
 Think it's worth getting?
  
 https://www.massdrop.com/buy/yuin-pk3


----------



## DavidRrofel

Ballog, just to you know.
 I made the order and paid the past October 8th but yesterday I had to cancel my Xduoo xd-05's order because they have not real stock right now. Gerarbest told me that I had to wait at least 15 days more.


----------



## cingcut

purplesun said:


> I hear you on the donuts (no pun intended), for the life of me, I simply don't know how to put on the run-of-the-mill black donut foams. It flip flops all over the place, except properly on the circumference of the earbud. Will the Hiegi donuts, that everyone talks about, be any easier?




just put in like full foams 
idk dont have hiegi donuts yet, for now, but its still donut, i think it will be same. lol


----------



## Tomasz2D

clieos said:


> Yes, I mean micro iDSD. I have Micro iDAC as well, it is also a really good DAC/amp, though iDSD is just a little better overall. But if you dont need it to be protable, iDAC will be more than suffice.


 
  
 What worries me about iDAC2 is that it just has analog volume control and no gain switch. This is of course in the context of using it with earbuds. Do you feel that you still have good volume control in iDAC2 when used with earbuds? No significant channel imbalance with low volume? I mean, as compared to micro iDSD where there are 3 gain levels plus IEM match that helps to tame it.


----------



## ClieOS

tomasz2d said:


> What worries me about iDAC2 is that it just has analog volume control and no gain switch. This is of course in the context of using it with earbuds. Do you feel that you still have good volume control in iDAC2 when used with earbuds? No significant channel imbalance with low volume? I mean, as compared to micro iDSD where there are 3 gain levels plus IEM match that helps to tame it.




If you are using super sensitive IEM, then iDSD is definitely the better choice for finer volume control. I haven't listened to any earbud that is so sensitive that gain becomes an issue.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

For those of you who own the SeaHF 320OHM V1, you better take bloody good care of it.
  
 According to this thread:
http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4820535144
  
 BugGuys himself mentions that the "old 320ohm" is "really gone"
 In turn, there is a newer version which supposedly reduces clipping with improved sonic performances.

 *the newer version he mentions might just be the 320Ohm V2


----------



## golov17

Like beta Asura.. Rare & beauty


----------



## Tomasz2D

clieos said:


> If you are using super sensitive IEM, then iDSD is definitely the better choice for finer volume control. I haven't listened to any earbud that is so sensitive that gain becomes an issue.


 
 Good to hear that. I was always intrigued by what they say why they have used that older Burr Brown PCM1793 chip (and as they like to underline - the last one developed by Japanese before TI overtake). It is almost like a legend  On the other hand iFi product lineup with so many products overlaping in functionality is little confusing. But... with British pound going down it is quite tempting now to get iFi directly from the islands.


----------



## fairx

audionewbi3 said:


> For those of you who own the SeaHF 320OHM V1, you better take bloody good care of it.
> 
> According to this thread:
> http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4820535144
> ...



Still have your seahf v1? Maybe someday perhaps I can audition yours? At a meet or something. 

I guess all ty 320 ohm are newer version. I'm pretty content with my ty Hp320 despite shipping mishap ( my guess is they don't have it). Still burning in.


----------



## vapman

blueshound24 said:


> If anyone is interested, Massdrop has the Yuin Pk3 for $24 + $2.75 shipping for two more days.
> Think it's worth getting?
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/yuin-pk3


 

 Massdrop has had yuins for a long time, it's not a bad price if you don't mind the long wait until shipping, and the long wait after shipping, but like others have said, yuins get less and less appealing as more nice budget models come out.... still, there will be people who want & love the Yuin signature! But, in 2016 you don't really find anyone repping Yuin and nothing else. Even back when they were kind of the "only option" for nice buds people still went for higher end Sonys instead sometimes... (searching "yuin sony" will bring up a lot of thread from 2000-2005!)


----------



## tinkertailor

Yuins are still better than the monks imo... far more detail


----------



## vapman

tinkertailor said:


> Yuins are still better than the monks imo... far more detail


 

 more detail for sure, but these days you can get an arguably better bud which is more competent as an all-rounder for no more than $20...  like yes, the yuin still not bad, but there's a reason people wanted something else even 10+ years ago.


----------



## springbay

audionewbi3 said:


> For those of you who own the SeaHF 320OHM V1, you better take bloody good care of it.


 
  
 I'm so thankful for my Smart 1. None of my other buds do acoustic guitar as well as them, except perhaps the LD-3 320.
  
 About the K500 and the special price. I've put the buds in my cart and immediately replied to the initial message from HCK via AE messenger that I was interested in buying version 2, but they have not adjusted the price in my cart. Am I doing something wrong, or how does this thing work when the seller change the price at AE?


----------



## JASru

springbay said:


> I'm so thankful for my Smart 1. None of my other buds do acoustic guitar as well as them, except perhaps the LD-3 320.
> 
> About the K500 and the special price. I've put the buds in my cart and immediately replied to the initial message from HCK via AE messenger that I was interested in buying version 2, but they have not adjusted the price in my cart. Am I doing something wrong, or how does this thing work when the seller change the price at AE?


 
 If I am not mistaken you need to create an order but leave it unpaid. So when ali asks you to pay - got to main page instead of paying.


----------



## Nec3

My SeaHF's right earbud just died. I don't understand, I babied these, kept them in a 3 inch by 1 inch padded case and they died...
 I threw my monks around like used batteries and they lasted three times longer. Heck the stock sony earbuds that came with my walkman 14 years ago are still alive. Q.Q
 Edit: I think I'll salvage the cable, the cable is nice. Checked the insides, wires still seem to be in contact with the drivers. Hmph.
 Well when my monks die I hope it'll be a cable tear so I can attach these nice cables on them. Or maybe re-house them. Oh yes.


----------



## springbay

jasru said:


> If I am not mistaken you need to create an order but leave it unpaid. So when ali asks you to pay - got to main page instead of paying.


 
 That's exactly what I've been doing a number of times. Well it's the weekend anyways, so I guess I'll just wait and see if I get a response on Monday.


----------



## vapman

nec3 said:


> My SeaHF's right earbud just died. I don't understand, I babied these, kept them in a 3 inch by 1 inch padded case and they died...
> I threw my monks around like used batteries and they lasted three times longer. Heck the stock sony earbuds that came with my walkman 14 years ago are still alive. Q.Q
> Edit: I think I'll salvage the cable, the cable is nice. Checked the insides, wires still seem to be in contact with the drivers. Hmph.
> Well when my monks die I hope it'll be a cable tear so I can attach these nice cables on them. Or maybe re-house them. Oh yes.


 

 Send them back to wherever you bought them for a replacement, my first set of Seahf 400 died fairly quickly too... got a replacement from the seller and that's been working fine since.


----------



## Nec3

vapman said:


> Send them back to wherever you bought them for a replacement, my first set of Seahf 400 died fairly quickly too... got a replacement from the seller and that's been working fine since.


 
 Thanks, I was being overdramatic. I already sent the seller a notification of what happened, but y'know. Some things go bad even when I take care of them, but other things go smoothly without giving it a hint of care. The former sucks the most obviously.


----------



## CingKrab

springbay said:


> That's exactly what I've been doing a number of times. Well it's the weekend anyways, so I guess I'll just wait and see if I get a response on Monday.


 
  
 To be clear, I think he means to complete the order and leave it unpaid, then message HCK with the order number to adjust the price, and then pay for the order.  Just putting it your cart won't do it.


----------



## springbay

cingkrab said:


> To be clear, I think he means to complete the order and leave it unpaid, then message HCK with the order number to adjust the price, and then pay for the order.  Just putting it your cart won't do it.


 
  
 Ok, I don't get it.
 I only have the option "pay now" to finish the order. As soon as I click they pay button the money will be drawn from my bank account. I know of no option to hold the money after I have clicked "pay now",


----------



## Townyj

springbay said:


> Ok, I don't get it.
> I only have the option "pay now" to finish the order. As soon as I click they pay button the money will be drawn from my bank account. I know of no option to hold the money after I have clicked "pay now",




If you remove your payment info, credit card etc. You can actually pay once the price has been adjusted. Are you using the aliexpress webpage or app on your phone?


----------



## vapman

springbay said:


> Ok, I don't get it.
> I only have the option "pay now" to finish the order. As soon as I click they pay button the money will be drawn from my bank account. I know of no option to hold the money after I have clicked "pay now",




If you're using mobile you'll have to use "other payment methods" then the option to go to the full site. Then you will find the option to cancel checkout and go back to your orders...


----------



## rockingthearies

How much are the K500 after the discount?


----------



## springbay

townyj said:


> If you remove your payment info, credit card etc. You can actually pay once the price has been adjusted. Are you using the aliexpress webpage or app on your phone?


 

 I usually pay through the app on my phone, when I get a better price via the app than on the web.
 This is all to messy for me. If HCK want to offer the bud at a lower price for loyal costumers, they should just send us a coupon or something.


----------



## springbay

rockingthearies said:


> How much are the K500 after the discount?


 
 $80 for version 1
 $90 for version 2


----------



## rockingthearies

springbay said:


> $80 for version 1
> $90 for version 2




Thanks do you know when will this offer end?


----------



## springbay

vapman said:


> If you're using mobile you'll have to use "other payment methods" then the option to go to the full site. Then you will find the option to cancel checkout and go back to your orders...


 
 Thanks that actually did the trick.
 Now I have an order awaiting payment!
 I would never have figured out this on my own.


----------



## springbay

rockingthearies said:


> Thanks do you know when will this offer end?


 

 No idea. I got the message about the special offer ("for you and friends") by HCK late on Friday evening CET


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Sweet, just got confirmation that my MusicMaker TKY2 on its way to me. Hopefully I'll have it within two weeks.


----------



## rockingthearies

So if HCK change the price it, the price will just update itself in the orders?


----------



## vapman

rockingthearies said:


> So if HCK change the price it, the price will just update itself in the orders?




You will also get an email telling you your price has been adjusted.


----------



## rockingthearies

vapman said:


> You will also get an email telling you your price has been adjusted.




After that do I have a time limit to buy like within a day until the updated price disappears? Or can I make payment anytime I like?


----------



## vapman

rockingthearies said:


> After that do I have a time limit to buy like within a day until the updated price disappears? Or can I make payment anytime I like?




Stays at that price until the order expires.


----------



## rockingthearies

vapman said:


> Stays at that price until the order expires.




How do I check when my order will expire?


----------



## golov17

rockingthearies said:


> How do I check when my order will expire?


see "my orders"


----------



## jrazmar

any impressions update on the Shozy BK? i did create a taobao account just to be able to buy it if reviews turn out to be positive. it was a headache since I don't know any Chinese. good thing Google was able to help. Hope ClieOS or someone else can give his opinion and a quick comparisons against the K500, TY650 and Masya.


----------



## rockingthearies

Thanks all for answering all my questions HCK have reduced the price to USD90 already


----------



## luedriver

very tempted to buy the hp650's especially after the review by vapman,
  
 was about to ask where to order them, from aliexpress or penonaudio and just saw on penonaudio, that they have adjusted the price down to $109usd from $119usd
  
 still just a few dollars more than aliexpress, but I prefer to order from penonaudio, for some reason


----------



## kurtextrem

rockingthearies said:


> Thanks all for answering all my questions HCK have reduced the price to USD90 already


 
 did you take v1 or v2? which one sounds better do you think?


----------



## rockingthearies

kurtextrem said:


> did you take v1 or v2? which one sounds better do you think?




V1 after discount is USD80 I got the V2 because I heard it have a better wire which I assume will have better durability because I am quite rough a person myself. As for which sounds better that I am not too sure


----------



## Raketen

nine wave NW-STUDIO NEO Type: KISSSHOT ACEROLAORION HEARTUNDERBLADE http://www.e-earphone.jp/shopdetail/000000098773/001/052/X/page1/recommend/

:blink: that is ... some kind of name... :blink:

Saw ClieOS review thread from years ago but apparently there are a few updated versions?


----------



## ClieOS

raketen said:


> ....
> 
> Saw ClieOS review thread from years ago but apparently there are a few updated versions?


 
  
 There wasn't any updated version for years except for Neo, which was released a couple of weeks ago as some kind of limited edition associated with an animation (which is what the long name is all about, and probably also explains the big price jump).
  
 There were originally the Aidex adx10001 (which NOS still can be found on Taobao), then the company was bought by NineWave and the model was renamed as the NW-Studio. After that, NineWave released an upgrade model call the NW Studio Pro (which is the one I reviewed) as well as a special starling silver version of the Pro (which later becomes the GEM series). After that, they haven't really released anything till Neo.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

audionewbi3 said:


> Both of these buds has been on my wish list since their announcement in the spring headphone festival in Japan.
> According to http://www.animate-onlineshop.jp/corner/cc/nw-studio_neo/cd/365/, only 100 of each will be produce and sold (200 in total).
> 
> These earbuds are based on an animated series known as "monogatari series". These bud specifically was released in conjunction (if I am not mistaken) with the release of Kizumonogatri movie.
> ...


 
  
  


raketen said:


> nine wave NW-STUDIO NEO Type: KISSSHOT ACEROLAORION HEARTUNDERBLADE http://www.e-earphone.jp/shopdetail/000000098773/001/052/X/page1/recommend/
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## fairx

Within 3 days it seems that now I can power my ty 320ohm with either Samsung or iPhone with minimal effect on SQ and fidelity, unlike OOTB. Still Need to push up until 95-100 volume though. 

Interesting. I Don't have to lug my amp now when I travel, nor it's strictly for home use. I only have to worry about battery consumption.


----------



## ClieOS

kurtextrem said:


> ClieOS, sir, I would very much appreciate if you could give me your opinion:
> As the K's 500 is on Aliexpress now and HeadFi members get a really nice discount, I'm very interested. But Shozy BK and Rose Masya.
> I like the Asura 2, but the Cygnus is slightly better for gaming.
> Which one would you rather take and why?


 
  
 I think K's 500ohm is closer to Asura 2 in sound signature while BK is closer to Cygnus. Like Asura 2, K's 500ohm is more on the smoother side, but with a deeper bass and a more immersive soundstage, On the other hand BK improves on Cygnus most noticeably on body and texture, especially in bass and lower mid, while still retains some of the upper vocal aggressiveness. As far as sound signature goes, Masya is actually a good mix of the two above. It too has a fairly immersive soundstage like K's 500ohm, but with a brighter upper vocal and treble that is closer to BK. Purely on sound signature, I probably like Masya the most - while it doesn't do some aspects better than BK or K's 500ohm, it is more balanced.


----------



## Fabi

Shozy BK in the champions


----------



## golov17

fabi said:


> Shozy BK in the champions


yep


----------



## magitka27

fairx said:


> Within 3 days it seems that now I can power my ty 320ohm with either Samsung or iPhone with minimal effect on SQ and fidelity, unlike OOTB. Still Need to push up until 95-100 volume though.
> 
> Interesting. I Don't have to lug my amp now when I travel, nor it's strictly for home use. I only have to worry about battery consumption.




Can you give me some impression about ty hiz 320ohm that you own mate?


----------



## ld100

fabi said:


> Shozy BK in the champions


 
  
 Now we need to see them on Ali or Penon!


----------



## Ira Delphic

What's the source of this list? RX1 "better" than Cygnus? Really?


----------



## ClieOS

ira delphic said:


> What's the source of this list? RX1 "better" than Cygnus? Really?


 

 ...ya, really?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

fairx said:


> Still have your seahf v1? Maybe someday perhaps I can audition yours? At a meet or something.
> 
> I guess all ty 320 ohm are newer version. I'm pretty content with my ty Hp320 despite shipping mishap ( my guess is they don't have it). Still burning in.


 
 Boleh bah....marilah kalau ada masa


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Crap.......guys I need help......especially for those who have owned the Mojito, does this affect you?

 No matter what earbuds I try now (those with similar sound characteristics as Mojito) save for SeaHF320 Ohm V1, I keep going back to the Mojito......I try to forget it whilst listening to other earbuds, but I just can't.......well perhaps until Penon decides to send me back my Cygnus at least.....


----------



## rockingthearies

clieos said:


> I think K's 500ohm is closer to Asura 2 in sound signature while BK is closer to Cygnus. Like Asura 2, K's 500ohm is more on the smoother side, but with a deeper bass and a more immersive soundstage, On the other hand BK improves on Cygnus most noticeably on body and texture, especially in bass and lower mid, while still retains some of the upper vocal aggressiveness. As far as sound signature goes, Masya is actually a good mix of the two above. It too has a fairly immersive soundstage like K's 500ohm, but with a brighter upper vocal and treble that is closer to BK. Purely on sound signature, I probably like Masya the most - while it doesn't do some aspects better than BK or K's 500ohm, it is more balanced.




Did you get your Shozy BK from taobao the one for 1111 yen? While you did a comparison may I know in what way does the BK edges out as compared to the K 500Ohms


----------



## Fabi

audionewbi3 said:


> Crap.......guys I need help......especially for those who have owned the Mojito, does this affect you?
> 
> 
> No matter what earbuds I try now (those with similar sound characteristics as Mojito) save for SeaHF320 Ohm V1, I keep going back to the Mojito......I try to forget it whilst listening to other earbuds, but I just can't.......well perhaps until Penon decides to send me back my Cygnus at least.....



Don't worry, I think you're just in love or drunk (too much Mojito lol). It can last forever  
In audio, it's called high fidelity


----------



## AudioNewbi3

fabi said:


> Don't worry, I think you're just in love or drunk (too much Mojito lol). It can last forever
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hahaha, I hope so too.......
 On the bright side of things, this has cured (partly at least) some of my GAS and saved me a few pretty pennies.


----------



## fairx

magitka27 said:


> Can you give me some impression about ty hiz 320ohm that you own mate?




Prolly too early to give final impression but as of now I have around 40 - 50 hour of burn in. And the most change I can hear is around first 10 -15 hour. (or maybe my ear just adjusting,)

I use VE foam. This gives the best fit and also lift a bit of the warmness. Donut and full foam raise the warmth too much. Source; iPhone 5 with O2 amp 3.3x to gain. . Mp3 flac aac & Spotify. 

I also have ty hi-z 32 ohm and they share similar signature but of course 320ohm is more refined. But my the biggest complain from ty 32 also inherited; peak around 4-5.7k which to some (or song) might be too hot. 320 however handles this a b little bit better because of the better control and resolution. I hope they will subdue with more burn. 

If I were to put ty 320ohm in simple words, they're FULL, WARM, RICH, OPEN and DYNAMIC..

simple comparison

Ty 32 ohm. Similar tune but more congested. Smaller stage. not much richness in texture and warmth in lower range. bass not as big as 320. It's like a simpler and rougher version of 320. 

Tomahawk. more immersive than 320. More intense although not as dynamic.. More forward. Very effortless and open sound. Slight Grainy treble and less warm in the lower range. Bass are rolled off rather early but impact is better. Share the same brightness signature with 320. Fit issue. 

Rx-1. Sweeter, cleaner and more fluid mids. Highs not as extended as 320. Less intense but more balance from mids to highs. missing kick bass but have good sub bass presence. Stage is quite narrow. The biggest flaw of rx-1 is the missing kick bass. Takes the fun out of it. These days I only use them to watch anime

Monk+ more air. smooth mids and treble but somewhat veiled. . Everything else 320 wins. 

She3800. Very fluid mid bass to mids. Too dark compared to 320. 

OH by the way.. PRAT on ty 320 are superb. With metals and reggae I can't stop bobbing my head or tapping my feet. It's too much fun. Make you want to crank the volume up high. If the 5k peaks cam be tamed ( I hope so) it'll be da bomb. But being so it can't be used to evaluate music critically. 

Hope this helps. 


With 320 I now can discern that my iPhone has cleaner sound compared to Samsung S. Time to get new dac for desktop too..


----------



## Tomasz2D

*Toneking TP16* - more or less similar to Monk Plus sound. With stock foams it sounds darker than MP, actually to muffled and dark. It definitely benefits from swapping stock foams into MP foams (or even can be used foamless). When comparing both TP16 and MP both with MP foams on, TP16 sounds brighter and cleaner, has better both bass and treble extensions, better resolution. These are not huge differences but I would say TP16 is one level up from MP.
  
*Toneking TKY2* - this was quite shocking when I first tried it. Bright, trebly and bass light sound, flat but the whole frequency spectrum is strongly shifted towards treble side. Delicate and soft drawing that makes TKY2 very detailed and selective. Very good dynamics. By far different presentation from mainstream earbuds like Monk. In fact when I use TKY2, every time I still need at least one minute to adjust my brain to its sound. I like it with multiinstrument / multilayer recordings (rock, symphony), I don't like it that much with smaller ensemble recordings (jazz) with instrumental solos or any electronica based genres. Ear fit is square-like (think of Tomahawk) and can be a problem for some.
  
 Both TP16 and TKY2 offer what I think is already Toneking signature / house sound which is strong and good quality treble extension. It looks as Toneking is consistent until now when developing its product range and tries to follow typical audio price/sound/product level ratio scenario which is:
  
 (mass, cheaper product / warmer and fun sound) TP16 > Tomahawk > Ting > TKY2 (pricier / brighter and analytical  sound)
  
 Both TP16 and TKY2 have the same cable and the same case.


----------



## Raketen

tomasz2d said:


> *Toneking TY2* - this was quite shocking when I first tried it. Bright, trebly and bass light sound, flat but the whole frequency spectrum is strongly shifted towards treble side. Delicate and soft drawing that makes TY2 very detailed and selective. Very good dynamics. By far different presentation from mainstream earbuds like Monk. In fact when I use TY2, every time I still need at least one minute to adjust my brain to its sound. I like it with multiinstrument / multilayer recordings (rock, symphony), I don't like it that much with smaller ensemble recordings (jazz) with instrumental solos or any electronica based genres. Ear fit is square-like (think of Tomahawk) and can be a problem for some.
> 
> Both TP16 and TY2 offer what I think is already Toneking signature / house sound which is strong and good quality treble extension. It looks as Toneking is consistent until now when developing its product range and tries to follow typical audio price/sound/product level ratio scenario which is:
> 
> ...




Thanks for impressions, sounds like I might like TKY2 whenever it finally gets here... was a little bit worried with all the love for the 650's right after I bought it... but, after all I do have some unreformed treblehead tendencies.


----------



## Willber

tomasz2d said:


> TY2


 
 I assume you mean TKY2?


----------



## JASru

tomasz2d said:


> *Toneking TP16* - more or less similar to Monk Plus sound. With stock foams it sounds darker than MP, actually to muffled and dark. It definitely benefits from swapping stock foams into MP foams (or even can be used foamless). When comparing both TP16 and MP both with MP foams on, TP16 sounds brighter and cleaner, has better both bass and treble extensions, better resolution. These are not huge differences but I would say TY2 is one level up from MP.
> 
> *Toneking TY2* - this was quite shocking when I first tried it. Bright, trebly and bass light sound, flat but the whole frequency spectrum is strongly shifted towards treble side. Delicate and soft drawing that makes TY2 very detailed and selective. Very good dynamics. By far different presentation from mainstream earbuds like Monk. In fact when I use TY2, every time I still need at least one minute to adjust my brain to its sound. I like it with multiinstrument / multilayer recordings (rock, symphony), I don't like it that much with smaller ensemble recordings (jazz) with instrumental solos or any electronica based genres. Ear fit is square-like (think of Tomahawk) and can be a problem for some.
> 
> ...


 
 Would you agree that TP16 is a step up from monk+?
  
 It is given a slightly better cable and SQ is overall better, but not a leap.  Sound signature is really close, but more balanced and neutral.


----------



## Tomasz2D

willber said:


> I assume you mean TKY2?


 
  
 Yes, thanks, fixed.


jasru said:


> Would you agree that TP16 is a step up from monk+?


 
  
 Agree. As I said in my post "These are not huge differences but I would say TP16 is one level up from MP." (I edited it from TKY2 to TP16 just now as it should be done first time)


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> Crap.......guys I need help......especially for those who have owned the Mojito, does this affect you?
> 
> 
> No matter what earbuds I try now (those with similar sound characteristics as Mojito) save for SeaHF320 Ohm V1, I keep going back to the Mojito......I try to forget it whilst listening to other earbuds, but I just can't.......well perhaps until Penon decides to send me back my Cygnus at least.....




This is literally why i sold my mojito. It was like when i had a set of electrostatics and before i knew it i couldn't enjoy *anything* dynamic driver based. Even my home stereo with 550 watts of monoblocks couldn't do it for me... But yeah i remember that with the mojito too. To a slightly less extreme degree.


----------



## kurtextrem

clieos said:


> I think K's 500ohm is closer to Asura 2 in sound signature while BK is closer to Cygnus. Like Asura 2, K's 500ohm is more on the smoother side, but with a deeper bass and a more immersive soundstage, On the other hand BK improves on Cygnus most noticeably on body and texture, especially in bass and lower mid, while still retains some of the upper vocal aggressiveness. As far as sound signature goes, Masya is actually a good mix of the two above. It too has a fairly immersive soundstage like K's 500ohm, but with a brighter upper vocal and treble that is closer to BK. Purely on sound signature, I probably like Masya the most - while it doesn't do some aspects better than BK or K's 500ohm, it is more balanced.


 
 Thanks a lot!! So it's either Masya or K's 500 for me. I tend to the latter, because I loved Asura 2.
 but one last thing: What about the fit? Is Masya more comfortable?


----------



## ld100

jasru said:


> Would you agree that TP16 is a step up from monk+?
> 
> It is given a slightly better cable and SQ is overall better, but not a leap.  Sound signature is really close, but more balanced and neutral.




Respectfully disagree. Much much better than MP and quite different..


----------



## magitka27

fairx said:


> Prolly too early to give final impression but as of now I have around 40 - 50 hour of burn in. And the most change I can hear is around first 10 -15 hour. (or maybe my ear just adjusting,)
> 
> I use VE foam. This gives the best fit and also lift a bit of the warmness. Donut and full foam raise the warmth too much. Source; iPhone 5 with O2 amp 3.3x to gain. . Mp3 flac aac & Spotify.
> 
> ...




I'm dillematic now, have to choose between Ty hiz 320 ohm that makes me want to buy it, seahf smart 1.0 320ohm , and yuin pk2 

Have you listen to those earbud? Yuin pk2 seems legit but i love the cold signature of my smart 1.0 150ohm , even it let me know that stock topping nx3 m2m cable is not good at all to bring all the potention of it. (Compared to fiio nowadays short m2m, it sounds veiled =_=)

So the ty 320 is warm? What about the treble extension? Omg i spend hours everynight just to consider which earbud that i have to buy as an upgrade :/


----------



## tinkertailor

Any of you fine folks ever tried the rose mojitos without an amp? Like, right out of an iphone?


----------



## kinetic758

tinkertailor said:


> Any of you fine folks ever tried the rose mojitos without an amp? Like, right out of an iphone?




I've tried it straight out of a Samsung Galaxy S6. It sounded pretty good. I do believe it opens up and has a bit more dynamics with an amp, however.


----------



## ultimdan

Hey guys, I don't see a lot of talking about MusicMaker/Toneking TO300? Is there any reason? Here is a link to the earbuds I'm talking about : Link.
 Also, is the K500 balanced, a balanced connector that needs a balanced amp?
  
 Thanks,
  
 Dan


----------



## Brian Coffey

I wasn't aware of the MusicMaker/Toneking TO300. So no answer from me there. But yes the K500 balanced would have a balanced connector and need a balanced output or an adapter.


----------



## music4mhell

ultimdan said:


> Hey guys, I don't see a lot of talking about MusicMaker/Toneking TO300? Is there any reason? Here is a link to the earbuds I'm talking about : Link.
> Also, is the K500 balanced, a balanced connector that needs a balanced amp?
> 
> Thanks,
> ...


 
 That's already covered in the list, you can have a look.
  
 K500 balanced, i have ordered on Aliexpress K500, they are not balanced, they have normal 3.5 mm connector, you can check from the pic. Don't go by description.


----------



## tinkertailor

kinetic758 said:


> I've tried it straight out of a Samsung Galaxy S6. It sounded pretty good. I do believe it opens up and has a bit more dynamics with an amp, however.


 
 Pretty good? For $200+ i would hope it sounds amazing. It says on the penon audio site that they are optimized for "portable devices" which i think means something like an iphone.


----------



## kinetic758

tinkertailor said:


> Pretty good? For $200+ i would hope it sounds amazing. It says on the penon audio site that they are optimized for "portable devices" which i think means something like an iphone.




If you kept reading, the description also mentioned its use with an amplifier. I'm not sure what you're expecting from these, but if you want "amazing" then I believe your expectations may be unreasonable. For me, these are the best earbuds I've heard and own (amped or not). Are they "amazing"? Not exactly (for me), but they are very good.


----------



## tinkertailor

Nono, I read the whole thing. 
  
 Just found these tonight... Rose Masaya earbuds ... very similar looking to rose mojitos, possibly the same
  
 http://penonaudio.com/Rose-Technology-all-models/Rose-Masya


----------



## ClieOS

rockingthearies said:


> Did you get your Shozy BK from taobao the one for 1111 yen? While you did a comparison may I know in what way does the BK edges out as compared to the K 500Ohms


 
  
 Yes, I got the 1111 yen version, which has the balanced plug.
  
 To me, the main reason BK edges out on K's 500ohm is because BK is closer to sounding 'live'. K's 500ohm has a really immersive soundstage, but the overall presentation is a bit too smooth for me. BK isn't perfect as well as I find its upper vocal very slightly recessed - but it is a much smaller 'flaw' than K's 500ohm, and much easier to fix by a slight bump around 2kHz in EQ.
  


ultimdan said:


> Hey guys, I don't see a lot of talking about MusicMaker/Toneking TO300? Is there any reason? Here is a link to the earbuds I'm talking about : Link.
> Also, is the K500 balanced, a balanced connector that needs a balanced amp?
> 
> Thanks,
> ...


 
  
 Mostly because TO300 isn't particularly great earbuds when compared to MusicMaker's other higher end earbuds.
  
 K's 500ohm is available as singled ended (stock or upgraded cable) and balanced version. The balanced version can be driven by balanced amp or normal amp with an balanced-to-singled-ended adapter, the single ended version however can only be driven by normal single ended amp. The notion of 'balanced' in the list is purely to indicate how the earbuds are terminated, not how they are driven.


----------



## ClieOS

tinkertailor said:


> Nono, I read the whole thing.
> 
> Just found these tonight. very similar looking to rose mojitos, *possibly the same*
> 
> http://penonaudio.com/Rose-Technology-all-models/Rose-Masya


 
  
 Absolutely not the same.
  
 We have discussed Masya before, you might want to search the thread.


----------



## tinkertailor

clieos said:


> Absolutely not the same.
> 
> We have discussed Masya before, you might want to search the thread.


 
 my bad, I did search but I was spelling it wrong


----------



## ClieOS

kurtextrem said:


> Thanks a lot!! So it's either Masya or K's 500 for me. I tend to the latter, because I loved Asura 2.
> but one last thing: What about the fit? Is Masya more comfortable?


 
  
 As far as fit goes, Masya is almost the same as Mojito, but doesn't require as tight a fit to have a good bass response. K's 500ohm on the other hand uses the standard MX500 housing so it isn't likely going to be any problem for most as far as fit is concerned. I have a pretty average ear shape and size so both fit me well enough.


----------



## music4mhell

clieos said:


> kurtextrem said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks a lot!! So it's either Masya or K's 500 for me. I tend to the latter, because I loved Asura 2.
> ...


 
 TKY2 was a good fit for you ?


----------



## rockingthearies

Both the termination on Shozy BK and K 500Ohms balanced are 3.5mm TRRS am I right?


----------



## dearyon

the K's earphone got me interested
 how is it compared to Zen 2? (which is earbud that I'm saving money for right now)
 and planning to buy DragonFly Black in the future for mobile use with high impedance earbuds, is it able to drive K's?
 any opinion from you will be greatly appreciated @ClieOS


----------



## ClieOS

​


music4mhell said:


> TKY2 was a good fit for you ?




With the multi-hole foam I posted before, yes.




rockingthearies said:


> Both the termination on Shozy BK and K 500Ohms balanced are 3.5mm TRRS am I right?




AK 2.5mm TRRS. I do believe K's 500ohm balanced plug can be customized to either 2.5mm or 3.5mm.


----------



## rockingthearies

I think you meant the BK? So is the BK unbalanced 2.5mm as well? Or just the balanced one


----------



## ClieOS

rockingthearies said:


> I think you meant the BK? So is the BK unbalanced 2.5mm as well? Or just the balanced one




No, I do mean both my BK and K's 500ohm are 2.5mm TRRS balanced.

BK only has 2.5mm balanced plug or 3.5mm singled ended. K's is however made to order.


----------



## rockingthearies

clieos said:


> No, I do mean both my BK and K's 500ohm are 2.5mm TRRS balanced.
> 
> BK only has 2.5mm balanced plug or 3.5mm singled ended. K's is however made to order.




Oh okay thanks for the clarification


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> This is literally why i sold my mojito. It was like when i had a set of electrostatics and before i knew it i couldn't enjoy *anything* dynamic driver based. Even my home stereo with 550 watts of monoblocks couldn't do it for me... But yeah i remember that with the mojito too. To a slightly less extreme degree.


 
 The poison is unlimitedly strong with the Mojito....or maybe it was just the type of music I mainly listen to.....but still the quick and clear response of it though.....


----------



## JASru

Guys,
 do I get it right - both BK and K's are available as standard (non-balanced) terminated version with 3.5 plug?
  
 Are there anyone on Ali selling themin this versions?


----------



## fairx

magitka27 said:


> I'm dillematic now, have to choose between Ty hiz 320 ohm that makes me want to buy it, seahf smart 1.0 320ohm , and yuin pk2
> 
> Have you listen to those earbud? Yuin pk2 seems legit but i love the cold signature of my smart 1.0 150ohm , even it let me know that stock topping nx3 m2m cable is not good at all to bring all the potention of it. (Compared to fiio nowadays short m2m, it sounds veiled =_=)
> 
> So the ty 320 is warm? What about the treble extension? Omg i spend hours everynight just to consider which earbud that i have to buy as an upgrade :/



Sorry I have not. Maybe others who have both can pitch in. Take my impression as a grain of salt. Maybe we define everything differently. I can only compare with earbud that I have. 

If I were to rank maybe
1. Ty 320
2. 
3. Tomahawk.
4. Rx-1. 

So I rank TY slightly higher maybe like 2 step ahead. 

Edit 

If we talk about balance IMHO it's balance maybe it's neutral leaning to bright. When I said warm I mean in the lower range. 

Cheers.


----------



## kurtextrem

clieos said:


> As far as fit goes, Masya is almost the same as Mojito, but doesn't require as tight a fit to have a good bass response. K's 500ohm on the other hand uses the standard MX500 housing so it isn't likely going to be any problem for most as far as fit is concerned. I have a pretty average ear shape and size so both fit me well enough.


 

 Thank you again! It doesn't make the decission easier though... so: Which one do you think is better for gaming (in terms of 3d soundstage) - and which one has more "detailed" lows?


----------



## ClieOS

dearyon said:


> the K's earphone got me interested
> how is it compared to Zen 2? (which is earbud that I'm saving money for right now)
> and planning to buy DragonFly Black in the future for mobile use with high impedance earbuds, is it able to drive K's?
> any opinion from you will be greatly appreciated @ClieOS


 
  
 ...about K's vs. Zen 2 or how DragonFly Black driving high impedance earbuds? Not sure about the later as I have no idea about Dragonfly Black, but K's definitely get my vote over Zen 2. Zen 1 will be more of a match.
  


kurtextrem said:


> Thank you again! It doesn't make the decission easier though... so: Which one do you think is better for gaming (in terms of 3d soundstage) - and which one has more "detailed" lows?


 
  
 I really don't play games with earbuds, so I am not sure how useful my opinion will be - but I reckon Masya probably has a  more accurate rendering of soundstage, where K's 500ohm soundstage is more cinematic. K's 500ohm definitely has the best bass.


----------



## jrazmar

is it safe to say that ampless, one should go with Shozy BK instead of the K's 500 nor the TY650?


----------



## luedriver

jrazmar said:


> is it safe to say that ampless, one should go with Shozy BK instead of the K's 500 nor the TY650?


 
 I am looking to buy the hp650, so I would say maybe...
  
 best case scenario, I can use it from iphone no problem, and then use them with my stereo amp at home, bad case, I might just use it for home with either one of my 4 stereo amps, worst case, might have to hook them up to the back where the speaker wires go for extra power
  
 but if I didn't have the cygnus, I would probably buy the bk instead
  
 I am not the best to answer this but thought I should give my 2 cents on the topic


----------



## AkashS04

Has TY Hi-Z 32ohm god Warm sound with lots of Bass and details but not harsh?


----------



## robervaul

hmm sexy
 http://h5.m.taobao.com/awp/core/detail.htm?id=540237505220&toSite=main


----------



## dearyon

clieos said:


> ...about K's vs. Zen 2 or how DragonFly Black driving high impedance earbuds? Not sure about the later as I have no idea about Dragonfly Black, but K's definitely get my vote over Zen 2. Zen 1 will be more of a match.


 
 thanks for the response! 
 sorry for confusing you lol

 I find Zen 1 have peak at upper vocal that make me not liking it
 then I read in reviews- Zen 2 tamed that region and you say that K's has smooth overall presentation
 so I thought it will be more to Zen 2 soundsig rather than Zen 1...

 that's why I'm asking how the K's vs. Zen 2 instead of Zen 1
 what aspect of K's that is better than Zen 2 in your opinion?


----------



## JASru

robervaul said:


> hmm sexy
> http://h5.m.taobao.com/awp/core/detail.htm?id=540237505220&toSite=main


 
 Wow. I loved ****'s 4in1 IEM, guess their earbuds can be good.


----------



## robervaul

jasru said:


> Wow. I loved ****'s 4in1 IEM, guess their earbuds can be good.


 
 Yes, graphene diaphragm driver.


----------



## luedriver

this is out of topic, but I just saw on penon ty hi-z made iems. called G3
  
 not as cheap as the hp32, they cost $45 usd or about $60 aud
  
  
 I wonder if they make full sized headphones as well
  
 anyway back to normal earbud discussion


----------



## purplesun

robervaul said:


> hmm sexy
> http://h5.m.taobao.com/awp/core/detail.htm?id=540237505220&toSite=main


 
 They claim Graphene diaphragm material. Wow!
 Has to be some sort of world's first, if it is true.


----------



## ClieOS

dearyon said:


> thanks for the response!
> sorry for confusing you lol
> 
> I find Zen 1 have peak at upper vocal that make me not liking it
> ...


 
  
 Soundstage and bass depth.
  
 K's soundstage is very immersive, which is kind of unique on its own. Most other earbuds either has a very open soundstage (i.e. Mojito) or a more normal soundstage (i.e. Zen 2) - K's on the other hand is more surrounding and enveloping, much like a closed full size can. As for bass depth - it has a very deep body, probably one of the best of any earbud.


----------



## rockingthearies

Is the Shozy BK 1111 yen or USD165?


----------



## music4mhell

rockingthearies said:


> Is the Shozy BK 1111 yen or USD165?


 
 If you convert USD 165 to Yuan, it will be ~1111 Yuan. It's not YEN, that's Japanese currency  We are talking about China


----------



## rockingthearies

music4mhell said:


> If you convert USD 165 to Yuan, it will be ~1111 Yuan. It's not YEN, that's Japanese currency  We are talking about China




Oh i see on taobao its the yen currency though not yuan, guess its good to know. Thanks


----------



## golov17

purplesun said:


> They claim Graphene diaphragm material. Wow!
> Has to be some sort of world's first, if it is true.


btw, Ostry housing, interesting..


----------



## music4mhell

rockingthearies said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > If you convert USD 165 to Yuan, it will be ~1111 Yuan. It's not YEN, that's Japanese currency
> ...


 
 Both Yuan and Yen symbol are same.
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C2%A5


----------



## purplesun

Still undecided on whether to wait or get their just released DT2 plus.
 Now, **** throws out this big white uniciorn - a graphene earbud with mmcx connector for about around USD$35 shipped.
 What a terrible company! Slow down, man! Slow down.


----------



## Ira Delphic

There's an explosion of earbuds coming our right now - very difficult to decide! I was so close to getting a Cygnus and being done for awhile...


----------



## Saoshyant

I suspect I'll try the ****


----------



## music4mhell

saoshyant said:


> I suspect I'll try the ****


 
 I am a new guy, please enlighten about **** company earphones


----------



## Saoshyant

music4mhell It's mainly due to the success of their budget offerings like the 4in1, UE & DT2 that makes me curious about what they can accomplish with an earbud. It'll be my first actual experience with the company.


----------



## music4mhell

saoshyant said:


> @music4mhell It's mainly due to the success of their budget offerings like the 4in1, UE & DT2 that makes me curious about what they can accomplish with an earbud. It'll be my first actual experience with the company.


 
 Let me ask to list on Ali then. it will be interesting.


----------



## Fabi

luedriver said:


> I wonder if they make full sized headphones as well
> 
> anyway back to normal earbud discussion


 
 Speaking of it, take a look at this
 https://world.taobao.com/item/526994835546.htm?fromSite=main&spm=5706.1529727.a31f1.3.WzmFY6&scm=1007.11502.31246.100200300000003&pvid=81238cae-238a-4766-8b08-4cd383e40ddb


----------



## music4mhell

music4mhell said:


> saoshyant said:
> 
> 
> > @music4mhell It's mainly due to the success of their budget offerings like the 4in1, UE & DT2 that makes me curious about what they can accomplish with an earbud. It'll be my first actual experience with the company.
> ...


 
 Upps **** Earbud in already available on Aliexpress. Time to order then  @ USD 29


----------



## purplesun

music4mhell said:


> I am a new guy, please enlighten about **** company earphones


 

 They are quite progressive on the IEM side of things, their 4in1 IEM has been hyped, loved & condemned in the past few weeks. From owning both the DT2 and 4in1 hybrid IEMs; both those products have good build qualities and are tuned more for a leaner presentation (and crazy highs in the case of 4in1). With the ultra-lightweight diaphragm in this new earbud I would expect them to continue in the same sound presentation, but having a bigger DD, it should have a more balanced sound than  4in1 (that's what I hope anyway).


----------



## music4mhell

robervaul said:


> hmm sexy
> http://h5.m.taobao.com/awp/core/detail.htm?id=540237505220&toSite=main


 
 I just bought it @ $29  from Aliexpress, Let see how it performs with other legends


----------



## luedriver

fabi said:


> Speaking of it, take a look at this
> https://world.taobao.com/item/526994835546.htm?fromSite=main&spm=5706.1529727.a31f1.3.WzmFY6&scm=1007.11502.31246.100200300000003&pvid=81238cae-238a-4766-8b08-4cd383e40ddb


 
 the link takes me to a page with a QR code


----------



## purplesun

music4mhell said:


> I just bought it @ $29  from Aliexpress, Let see how it performs with other legends


 

 What search keyword did you used to search on Ali? I can only find 1 seller at $49.


----------



## music4mhell

purplesun said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I just bought it @ $29  from Aliexpress, Let see how it performs with other legends
> ...


 
 Just tell the same seller, you are from Headfi and ask to change the price to $29, and you are done 
 There are 2 version, one with other without cable, choose the cable version.


----------



## Saoshyant

Which seller had it? Not having any luck on a search


----------



## purplesun

music4mhell said:


> Just tell the same seller, you are from Headfi and ask to change the price to $29, and you are done
> There are 2 version, one with other without cable, choose the cable version.


 
 With or without cable at that price?


----------



## music4mhell

purplesun said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Just tell the same seller, you are from Headfi and ask to change the price to $29, and you are done
> ...


 
 With cable...


----------



## Fabi

luedriver said:


> the link takes me to a page with a QR code


 
 Oups, try this one, it should work
 https://world.taobao.com/item/526994835546.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a312a.7700824.w4002-14533981774.42.sRcrtL


----------



## music4mhell

saoshyant said:


> Which seller had it? Not having any luck on a search


 
 Search **** and sort by "Date added (New to Old)" and you got the treasure.


----------



## purplesun

saoshyant said:


> Which seller had it? Not having any luck on a search


 
  
 The one that cannot be mentioned on the Chinese earphone thread. Not sure if that applies here.
  
 Search "****". Then sort by newest.


----------



## Saoshyant

Still doesn't show, DT2+ plus is the newest for me.


----------



## CingKrab

music4mhell said:


> I just bought it @ $29  from Aliexpress, Let see how it performs with other legends



Could you please post a link?


----------



## purplesun

saoshyant said:


> Still doesn't show, DT2+ plus is the newest for me.


 
 Works fine for me. It's the seller that cannot be named.


----------



## music4mhell

cingkrab said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I just bought it @ $29  from Aliexpress, Let see how it performs with other legends
> ...


 
 Seller can't be named


----------



## Saoshyant

Well that means I have to wait for another seller.

Also, discussion might be a problem if the earbud is currently exclusive to them, as another product that's exclusive cannot be discussed.


----------



## purplesun

@music4mhell
 I added to cart.
 Asked for $29 in contact.
 Do I simply wait for him/her to reply?
  
 Is that what you did?


----------



## Ira Delphic

I couldn't find the **** but did find this:
  
 http://www.zmescience.com/science/physics/graphene-headphones-14032013/


----------



## music4mhell

purplesun said:


> @music4mhell
> I added to cart.
> Asked for $29 in contact.
> Do I simply wait for him/her to reply?
> ...


 
 No, you then go to payment gateway, choose other payment method and then come back.. it will ask do you want to cancel the payment, say yes.
  
 Then he can change the price..


----------



## luckyeights

I have tried various combinations of **** by itself and with either pt15 or graphene and i cant find it any where on aliexpress.  Anyone ahve any luck finding this thing?


----------



## AkashS04

Anyone has any idea about Boarseman K25s??


----------



## purplesun

music4mhell said:


> No, you then go to payment gateway, choose other payment method and then come back.. it will ask do you want to cancel the payment, say yes.
> 
> Then he can change the price..


 

 Oh yah. It was discussed earlier. but I got quite confused and skipped it.
 Anyway, I just did that. Messaged him/her again but no response. It quite late now in East coat China, they probably reply tomorrow.
  
 So, 2 headfiers taking it for the team.
 Untested space-age material in an earbud.
 What could go wrong 
  
 EDIT: Just snagged it!!


----------



## Ira Delphic

purplesun said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > No, you then go to payment gateway, choose other payment method and then come back.. it will ask do you want to cancel the payment, say yes.
> ...


 
  
 Make that another. I got a reply right away. I'm not getting my hopes up. We'll see!!!


----------



## AkashS04

I am going to order VE Monk+ frm AliExpress. Is there any other low price earbuds with Mic I can order which has good Bass and very Warm sound with good details?


----------



## JASru

akashs04 said:


> I am going to order VE Monk+ frm AliExpress. Is there any other low price earbuds with Mic I can order which has good Bass and very Warm sound with good details?


 
 TP-16. But check that your version has it, some version have no mic.


----------



## Ira Delphic

akashs04 said:


> I am going to order VE Monk+ frm AliExpress. Is there any other low price earbuds with Mic I can order which has good Bass and very Warm sound with good details?


 
  
 There's the 1more - the newer 2016 version that supports iPhone (in addition to Android).


----------



## luedriver

fabi said:


> Oups, try this one, it should work
> https://world.taobao.com/item/526994835546.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a312a.7700824.w4002-14533981774.42.sRcrtL


 
 doesn't seem to work, nevermind, I don't/can't buy stuff from taobao anyway (don't know the language and google translate is a mess)


----------



## JASru

Someone said Hype-train?
 Someone said ****?
 Count me in fellas!
 Chooo-choooo!


----------



## Ira Delphic

jasru said:


> Someone said Hype-train?
> Someone said ****?
> Count me in fellas!
> Chooo-choooo!


 
  
 We may get burned, but there is the chance of glory! My first iem/earbud with removable cable.


----------



## Saoshyant

When someone else sells the ****, I'll order it.


----------



## JASru

ira delphic said:


> We may get burned, but there is the chance of glory! My first iem/earbud with removable cable.


 
 Be ready to have difficulties finding a straight cable. Most have over ear molding.


----------



## Willber

akashs04 said:


> I am going to order VE Monk+ frm AliExpress.


 

 If you'd ordered them when first advised weeks ago (and many times after that) you could be listening to them now!


----------



## Willber

ira delphic said:


> akashs04 said:
> 
> 
> > I am going to order VE Monk+ frm AliExpress. Is there any other low price earbuds with Mic I can order which has good Bass and very Warm sound with good details?
> ...


 
  
 Good bass, but I wouldn't call them warm. More like the RX-1 in the mids and highs.


----------



## AkashS04

ira delphic said:


> There's the 1more - the newer 2016 version that supports iPhone (in addition to Android).


 
 I am looking for Warm earbuds. Also, does iPod play high impedance earbuds like 64 Ohms or 150 Ohms etc. I saw that there are few with 200, 300 or even more impedance. Are they good i with high impedance?


----------



## purplesun

jasru said:


> Someone said Hype-train?
> Someone said ****?
> Count me in fellas!
> Chooo-choooo!


 
 What's that you're saying? I can't hear you.
 My **** 4in1 have re-trained my ears to only respond to ultrasonic frequencies.


----------



## JASru

Payment made. One more ****-hype-victim is on board.


----------



## Brian Coffey

ira delphic said:


> I couldn't find the **** but did find this:
> 
> http://www.zmescience.com/science/physics/graphene-headphones-14032013/


 
 Nice read..Have to look into those **** buds.


----------



## dearyon

akashs04 said:


> Anyone has any idea about Boarseman K25s??


 
 I have one

 compared to Monk+
 less wide sound stage but slightly better deep
 less detailed, less airy, less peaky
 more warm lows region (bass on Monk+ is leaner)
 vocal is more forward but again less peaky
 smoother treble, less extended
 K25s will sound like mid centric earbuds if compared to Monk+

 so in short
 warmer>brighter = K25s>Monk+

 that's a newbie opinion about them, take it with a grain of salt


----------



## Willber

dearyon said:


> akashs04 said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone has any idea about Boarseman K25s??
> ...


 

 Hi dearyon, AkashS04 has been asking the same questions on here over and over for the past six weeks. Despite lots of advice he still hasn't ordered any buds. I don't think he ever will.


----------



## Nachash

I just got the SHE3800 (Y), I'm actually impressed. I may prefer them over the Monk. Since I was there I bought a pairs of Qian 39, and I'm waiting for those Ty 32.


----------



## Willber

nachash said:


> I just got the SHE3800 (Y), I'm actually impressed. I may prefer them over the Monk. Since I was there I bought a pairs of Qian 39, and I'm waiting for those Ty 32.


 

 Yes, I prefer the SHE3800 to the Monk+ but I prefer the TY Hi-Z 32 to both of them.


----------



## ld100

So the **** hype train got derailed in the cheap Chinese IEMs thread, but got a new life here? Interesting. I decided not to get 4in1 at the end as they seem to be very bright based on few negative reviews... I wonder how the earbuds will sound... Could also be very bright...


----------



## JASru

ld100 said:


> So the **** hype train got derailed in the cheap Chinese IEMs thread, but got a new life here? Interesting. I decided not to get 4in1 at the end as they seem to be very bright based on few negative reviews... I wonder how the earbuds will sound... Could also be very bright...


 Offtop - 4in1 are indeed bright, but not sibillant or razor sharp. I use them and they are good, given their price.


----------



## JASru

My SHE3800 and TY32 are over a month in transit. Me mad (>_<)


----------



## Ira Delphic

willber said:


> dearyon said:
> 
> 
> > akashs04 said:
> ...


 
  
 The search feature on Head-fi is pretty incredible. Apparently not every knows about this magic.


----------



## AkashS04

I did not order because I did not want to waste my money in buying something and then returning. Today or tomorrow I will order Monk+ surely but wanted to see if I can take a chance and order something else as well along with Monk+ so I need not to return. If nothing works, then I will probably go back and buy new pairs of old Apple Earbuds. In my view, they are very good and I have not yet come across anything which can beat them in sound quality.


----------



## Danneq

But Monk+ is only around $8 with shipping. Sometimes you just have got to take a chance...

 Edit: You could always try TY HiZ HP-32 as well. It costs the same as Monk+ and complements M+ pretty well...


----------



## Willber

akashs04 said:


> I did not order because I did not want to waste my money in buying something and then returning. Today or tomorrow I will order Monk+ surely but wanted to see if I can take a chance and order something else as well along with Monk+ so I need not to return. If nothing works, then I will probably go back and buy new pairs of old *Apple Earbuds.* *In my view, they are very good and I have not yet come across anything which can beat them in sound quality.*


 
 But what earbuds have you tried as a comparison?
 Monk+, SHE3800 and Hi-Z 32 are about $5 each and many people have told you they are better than the Apple things. What's the worst that can happen with trying one or all of them?
 Why am I having this conversation again?


----------



## music4mhell

akashs04 said:


> I did not order because I did not want to waste my money in buying something and then returning. Today or tomorrow I will order Monk+ surely but wanted to see if I can take a chance and order something else as well along with Monk+ so I need not to return. If nothing works, then I will probably go back and buy new pairs of old Apple Earbuds. In my view, they are very good and I have not yet come across anything which can beat them in sound quality.


Apple earbuds are best, ergonomics wise also..lows highs mids are perfect.. i was using apple earpod version one two fpr many years..

you can never go wrong with apple products..
don't take any risk of buying unknown cheap Chinese earbuds..

apple earbuds are tested ans verified by milions including you..
better go for apple earbuds IMHO....


----------



## ld100

music4mhell said:


> Apple earbuds are best, ergonomics wise also..lows highs mids are perfect.. i was using apple earpod version one two fpr many years..
> 
> you can never go wrong with apple products..
> don't take any risk of buying unknown cheap Chinese earbuds..
> ...




I hope you are not serious...


----------



## vapman

I think music4mhell is very correct.... "Why fix what ain't broke"

Personally i am avoiding the **** hype train... I actually think i have too many buds again. Gotta pass some of my buds onto others before i can start buying more! And green ting is in the mail...


----------



## music4mhell

ld100 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Apple earbuds are best, ergonomics wise also..lows highs mids are perfect.. i was using apple earpod version one two fpr many years..
> ...


That was sarcasm ..u didn't get it..lol...


----------



## AkashS04

He might not be serious but said the correct thing and true. I have used Samsung Earbuds, FIIO EM3, some model of Platronics and JVC and TDK in-ear ones and did not find them as smooth and warm as Apple ones.


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> I think music4mhell is very correct.... "Why fix what ain't broke"
> 
> Personally i am avoiding the **** hype train... I actually think i have too many buds again. Gotta pass some of my buds onto others before i can start buying more! And green ting is in the mail...


 That's impossible...
Now HP650, Rose Masya, K500, **** are in mail..

Next in line is Shozy black and dony know what's in future...

I hate this hobby now..m loosing all my money every month..


----------



## vapman

My advice to you AkashS04 load up on spare Apple Earbuds like yours, in case they become rare, that is likely your best use of money! good luck friend!


----------



## AkashS04

I don't have any doubt that they might not be available in near future and then I will be searching for them like I am doing for iPod nano 1st gen now.


----------



## Ira Delphic

akashs04 said:


> He might not be serious but said the correct thing and true. I have used Samsung Earbuds, FIIO EM3, some model of Platronics and JVC and TDK in-ear ones and did not find them as smooth and warm as Apple ones.


 
  
 You know that you can't return $5 earbuds unless they are defective? Same with higher cost earbuds, IEMs, etc.


----------



## ld100

music4mhell said:


> That was sarcasm ..u didn't get it..lol...


 
 I was hoping it was. But you never know


----------



## ld100

akashs04 said:


> He might not be serious but said the correct thing and true. I have used Samsung Earbuds, FIIO EM3, some model of Platronics and JVC and TDK in-ear ones and did not find them as smooth and warm as Apple ones.


 
  
 I think you preaching to a wrong quire, body...


----------



## AkashS04

You can always return and I did it with EM3. That is another thing that the post get lost somewhere and they did not receive it hence I did not et my money back. But I spoke with B&H guy and they clearly mentioned that I can return the earbuds if I don't like. Few of the earphones I wanted to try they have but not for trying. But they are ok if I try and return them within 14 days if I don't like. It is only that you cannot return from AliExpress which is not good.
  
 2nd biggest issue is that they take 40 days to deliver the earbuds this is the major reason I could not order them even now.


----------



## ld100

vapman said:


> I think music4mhell is very correct.... "Why fix what ain't broke"
> 
> Personally i am avoiding the **** hype train... I actually think i have too many buds again. Gotta pass some of my buds onto others before i can start buying more! And green ting is in the mail...




With BK and new Rose around the corner I am set... **** hype train will have to wait...


----------



## vapman

ld100 said:


> With BK and new Rose around the corner I am set... **** hype train will have to wait...


 

 Plus even if the **** is good, I seriously doubt it'll be BK/Masya/650 good. We got hit with a storm of Champions contenders all at once. What a blessed fall-time it is for us earbud fans, and not for our wallets.


----------



## springbay

akashs04 said:


> You can always return and I did it with EM3. That is another thing that the post get lost somewhere and they did not receive it hence I did not et my money back. But I spoke with B&H guy and they clearly mentioned that I can return the earbuds if I don't like. Few of the earphones I wanted to try they have but not for trying. But they are ok if I try and return them within 14 days if I don't like. It is only that you cannot return from AliExpress which is not good.
> 
> 2nd biggest issue is that they take 40 days to deliver the earbuds this is the major reason I could not order them even now.


 

 Good luck trying to return a non defective Monk to Wild Lee, just because you don't like the sound.
 That is one thing you will not be able to do. Amen.


----------



## ld100

vapman said:


> Plus even if the **** is good, I seriously doubt it'll be BK/Masya/650 good. We got hit with a storm of Champions contenders all at once. What a blessed fall-time it is for us earbud fans, and not for our wallets.




Agree. There is a weird listing on Ali for BK for $450... I wonder how much it will retail for. If it is 40% more than white one that should be in 130 ball park... What **** hype train I say...


----------



## Ira Delphic

vapman said:


> ld100 said:
> 
> 
> > With BK and new Rose around the corner I am set... **** hype train will have to wait...
> ...


 
  
 My thought exactly. If it's in the same class as a Green Ting I'll be very happy.


----------



## batonchik03

Guys what buds are better for old school hip-hop ? Listening mostly to instrumentals however sometimes listen to pop,funk and ambient. Can't decide really what to buy. Was thinking about vx pro moondrop, Cygnus, asura 2.0, hp650. I don't have a source with an amp , listen from iPhone 5s. But will buy in future ibasso dx50. Budget is 70$. Had seahf 150 3.0 and enjoyed them. Had sunrise dragon 2.0 and enjoyed them more than seahf. However seahf was not durable and starter to click-quack on bass punch peaks.( what would u recommend ? Ps: sorry for bad English .


----------



## AkashS04

It is not that I am afraid of wasting my $5, Already spent around $100 on earbuds and did not like anything else. Problem is that I am afraid of trying without listening to them and then return or just throw away if I don't like. Need something for which I can say that this is the sound I was expecting.


----------



## To.M

akashs04 said:


> I am going to order VE Monk+ frm AliExpress. Is there any other low price earbuds with Mic I can order which has good Bass and very Warm sound with good details?




TY Hi-Z 32,I've had them for a few days and they are great, my Monk and Monk+ have been pushed aside by them


----------



## ClieOS

At this point, what @AkashS04 need isn't more of our recommendation but a divine intervention, to make sure one's life will never venture into the wrong path, nor will human extinct right after the buy button is pressed.
  
 Otherwise, live a little - and you can always give always the earbuds instead of throwing them away. You know, make someone else happy and stuff like that?


----------



## AkashS04

Go it. So TY Hi-Z  it more warm and bassy and also smoother than Monk+. Let me order both and see which one I like.But both are without Mic. Right?


----------



## vapman

batonchik03 said:


> Guys what buds are better for old school hip-hop ? Listening mostly to instrumentals however sometimes listen to pop,funk and ambient. Can't decide really what to buy. Was thinking about vx pro moondrop, Cygnus, asura 2.0, hp650. I don't have a source with an amp , listen from iPhone 5s. But will buy in future ibasso dx50. Budget is 70$. Had seahf 150 3.0 and enjoyed them. Had sunrise dragon 2.0 and enjoyed them more than seahf. However seahf was not durable and starter to click-quack on bass punch peaks.( what would u recommend ? Ps: sorry for bad English .


 

 Old school hip hop head right here to give you some good recs.
 Plus i have owned Dragon 2.0 and Seahf 150 like you.
  
 Cygnus is great but very little bass impact/depth!!!! Keep this in mind.
 Asura 2.0 also great, has more treble extension but you may find the vocals and bass a little rough.
  
*Qian39* - about $10, awesome awesome sound so much like Seahf 150 but warmer.
*Monk Plus* - more balanced, less warm/fun than Qian39
*TY Hi-Z 650* - so so good but iPhone will not drive them to their best by itself. Not sure if i can recommend to someone just using weaker smartphone without amp.
  
 The TY 650 is great but even the Monk Plus sounds ever so slightly lacking on iPhone IMO, at least compared to some other phones, the Qian39 for a cheap one is really really great though. If the lack of deep deep bass of the Cygnus does not bother you, the rest of it is great. The Asura 2.0 is a good choice if you want more treble and bass extension than the Cygnus.
  
 I have not heard the Moondrop VX Pro but it sounds like it is very neutral, so my thoughts is it will be similar sounds to TY 650 but less bass probably.
  
 I will post my thoughts about Green Ting when it is delivered, hoping it's good for old school hip hop too.


----------



## jant71

akashs04 said:


> I did not order because I did not want to waste my money in buying something and then returning. Today or tomorrow I will order Monk+ surely but wanted to see if I can take a chance and order something else as well along with Monk+ so I need not to return. If nothing works, then I will probably go back and buy new pairs of old Apple Earbuds. In my view, they are very good and I have not yet come across anything which can beat them in sound quality.


 
  
 Worth it to return something that is $8. Gift it as a gift and save $$$ that way 
  
 Order something along with it so you don't need to return? Not sure how that changes anything.
  
 You don't seem to be very willing to try so not surprised to gear you haven't come across anything 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 How long would it take for you to choose a $1000 custom??? Just messin' with ya, lol! Be like Nike and "Just Do It"!


----------



## Nachash

akashs04 said:


> Go it. So TY Hi-Z  it more warm and bassy and also smoother than Monk+. Let me order both and see which one I like.But both are without Mic. Right?


 

 https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=4 for the Monk with mic


----------



## AkashS04

It says *Qian39 is suitable for Girl Sound only? I am wondering how Male voice will sound with these earbuds?*


----------



## vapman

akashs04 said:


> It says *Qian39 is suitable for Girl Sound only? I am wondering how Male voice will sound with these earbuds?*


 

 Please take it easy on the bold text! The Qian39 might make mail voices sound girly. But what nice bass!


----------



## Danneq

akashs04 said:


> It says *Qian39 is suitable for Girl Sound only? I am wondering how Male voice will sound with these earbuds?*


 
  
 Like the Bee Gees?


----------



## Frederick Wang

> Quote:


 


robervaul said:


> hmm sexy
> http://h5.m.taobao.com/awp/core/detail.htm?id=540237505220&toSite=main


 
 Still a presale on taobao, just paid


----------



## Nachash

frederick wang said:


> Still a presale on taobao, just paid


 

 They're on presale on Ali too


----------



## Ira Delphic

akashs04 said:


> It says *Qian39 is suitable for Girl Sound only? I am wondering how Male voice will sound with these earbuds?*


 
  
 I'm starting to think we're getting trolled. Please consider not responding.


----------



## Ira Delphic

nachash said:


> frederick wang said:
> 
> 
> > Still a presale on taobao, just paid
> ...


 
  
 On Ali search for "**** PT15 " there's a different seller with 4 different cable options and also without cable.


----------



## Nachash

ira delphic said:


> On Ali search for "**** PT15 " there's a different seller with 4 different cable options and also without cable.


 

 Yes, they're on presale
*When you order, please note:*
*     Hello,dear friends, this is pre-sale products, about after 10 working days delivery, thank you for understand, please note, thank you !!!*


----------



## AkashS04

Bold text due to copy pasting the Moel Name from AliExpress and rest of the letters after that came in bold automatically. My apology.


----------



## vapman

As awesome as removable cables on earbuds are. I really hate MMCX. That said I have a mmcx cable lying around so if they get stellar reviews i'll get a no cable set.


----------



## batonchik03

vapman said:


> Old school hip hop head right here to give you some good recs.
> 
> Plus i have owned Dragon 2.0 and Seahf 150 like you.
> 
> ...



Thanx man a lot for your comment. Hope will decide soon)


----------



## jant71

vapman said:


> As awesome as removable cables on earbuds are. I really hate MMCX. That said I have a mmcx cable lying around so if they get stellar reviews i'll get a no cable set.


 

 At least it is removable which is good if you find fit a bit loose and the top may tilt out a bit. Then it is easy to put a couple O-rings on to toe out the bottom and fix. Of course I would prefer two pin.
  
 Speaking of cables I wonder what would be a good choice for them. Graphene does/should not need silver plated or silver as it is about having a brighter and more articulate treble. I don't think these need anything, at least for my gear, that goes to more treble or thins out the sound or a colder direction. I think the Mee P1 cable is higher impedance and smoother sound to it and has no memory portion though it costs more than the PT15 unless on sale.
  
 Of course, best to hear a bit about how they actually sound with a few impressions first. If on here please make sure you state your cable when giving your impression.


----------



## purplesun

IMO, we should not ALL jump on the **** PT15 at such an early stage. Let a few guys get it first to give it a test drive. Even though it looks like the holy grail of speaker membrane construction, graphene is virtually untested in any commercial application. It might have a totally uncontrolled sound with peaks & valleys all over the FR or a completely flat response from 5 to 50k but utterly boring sound. Let a small recce groups suss it out first. Let's keep the hype train parked up for now until there's a ballpark idea what this thing sounds like.
  
 EDIT: Just read the brochure specs, I think it says 1db variance from 15hz to 250khz! I really hope it not true (Luckily, it's an Ali specs) or I read it wrongly. Will be as exciting as doing my tax returns.


----------



## rockingthearies

vapman said:


> Plus even if the **** is good, I seriously doubt it'll be BK/Masya/650 good. We got hit with a storm of Champions contenders all at once. What a blessed fall-time it is for us earbud fans, and not for our wallets.




Indeed already burnt USD90 from my wallet man for a student this is so unhealthy but anything for you passion right?


----------



## phiely

**** with green cable ordered from Aliexpress !

Got a $2 off coupon.


----------



## vapman

phiely said:


> **** with green cable ordered from Aliexpress !
> 
> Got a $2 off coupon.


 

 Don't forget to come back and post impressions when you get em, cool? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
@BloodyPenguin Have you heard the Qian39 and possible to compare to those Vido's you have (I forget the name, but the cheap Taobao ones you said had the best bass you knew) because the Qian39's bass is so comparable to the depth & power of the TY 650 I think it might deserve a review.


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> phiely said:
> 
> 
> > **** with green cable ordered from Aliexpress !
> ...


 
 How Qian39 is compare to Borseman 98 ?


----------



## kinetic758

batonchik03 said:


> Guys what buds are better for old school hip-hop ? Listening mostly to instrumentals however sometimes listen to pop,funk and ambient. Can't decide really what to buy. Was thinking about vx pro moondrop, Cygnus, asura 2.0, hp650. I don't have a source with an amp , listen from iPhone 5s. But will buy in future ibasso dx50. Budget is 70$. Had seahf 150 3.0 and enjoyed them. Had sunrise dragon 2.0 and enjoyed them more than seahf. However seahf was not durable and starter to click-quack on bass punch peaks.( what would u recommend ? Ps: sorry for bad English .




Out of curiosity, "old school" as in 90's hip hop or more 80's? 

I'd recommend Monk+ and, if you can spring more, the Ostry KC08. 

By the way, the new De La Soul album is great if haven't heard it yet (and mastered with quite a big low end bump).


----------



## JASru

purplesun said:


> IMO, we should not ALL jump on the **** PT15 at such an early stage. Let a few guys get it first to give it a test drive. Even though it looks like the holy grail of speaker membrane construction, graphene is virtually untested in any commercial application. It might have a totally uncontrolled sound with peaks & valleys all over the FR or a completely flat response from 5 to 50k but utterly boring sound. Let a small recce groups suss it out first. Let's keep the hype train parked up for now until there's a ballpark idea what this thing sounds like.
> 
> EDIT: Just read the brochure specs, I think it says 1db variance from 15hz to 250khz! I really hope it not true (Luckily, it's an Ali specs) or I read it wrongly. Will be as exciting as doing my tax returns.


 I agree. Even if **** made decent product before there is no guarantee that they make it right this time. Anyway, I paid for money and gonna w8 for it.


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> How Qian39 is compare to Borseman 98 ?


 

 Like total opposites, really. Both are a little tiring to listen to for a while though. Both are also very good being listened to at quiet volumes.
  
 Boarseman has low bass amounts (like Cygnus), very aggressive upper mids and treble. Very Grado-like sound. All around very forward presentation, low soundstage.
  
 Qian39 comparable soundstage to Monk+. Warmer than Monk+ but slightly better treble extension. Pretty great sub bass. Tons and tons of mid bass. Very fun sound. I think it is also more balanced and neutral than Boarseman 98.
  
@kinetic758 I have never heard the Ostry. If you're local (Boston) let me know.... could hold a mini earbud listening party


----------



## kinetic758

vapman said:


> @kinetic758
> I have never heard the Ostry. If you're local (Boston) let me know.... could hold a mini earbud listening party




Unfortunately, I'm in California but have always want to visit Boston. I'll be sure to let you know when I make my visit!


----------



## music4mhell

kinetic758 said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > @kinetic758
> ...


 
 Do you really like Ostry KC08 sound ?
 I never used this more than 3/4 times in last 10 months.


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > How Qian39 is compare to Borseman 98 ?
> ...


 
 Well then i think i will prefer Monk+ sound then. I really enjoy monk+ sound when i am listening from mobile directly.


----------



## Robert Turnbull

jasru said:


> Be ready to have difficulties finding a straight cable. Most have over ear molding.


 
 The 'Tingo 1.25m' is a cable type.. Looks quite nice too!
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tingo-1-25m-16-Shares-5N-Silver-Plated-Earphone-Cables-Headphone-Line-Wire-HIFI-Headset-Line/32718958325.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.290.pJHIJm


----------



## JASru

robert turnbull said:


> The 'Tingo 1.25m' is a cable type.. Looks quite nice too!
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tingo-1-25m-16-Shares-5N-Silver-Plated-Earphone-Cables-Headphone-Line-Wire-HIFI-Headset-Line/32718958325.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.290.pJHIJm


 
 Wow. Thanks.
 The price looks awesome =)


----------



## luedriver

just got the monk+ candy today, postman woke me up at 9 am and then left the box outside my front door 
  
 must be my head, but I want to like them a lot, even though I know that they are just monk+ with a better cable
  
 without A/Bing it seems like they are more transparent than my other monks, I almost don't dare to A/B them, maybe not today
  
 on my iphone I had to up the volume to 8/16, then lower the volume to 5-7/16, varying on the music played on shuffle
  
 not going to comment on LP listening, almost anything I throw at my audio technica record player sounds great
  
 also, I took the leap of faith and ordered the ty hi-z hp650 on penonaudio (the aussie dollar isn't in favour and so $109 became almost $150) even so, I am almost convinced that this is a worthy purchase, the zen 2.0 will have to wait for Christmas, probably 
  
 side note, the candy seemed to be little echo-y when using my pc and when walking the cable seemed to make sounds, like it was moving around the case with every step, even though the cable was inside my jacket, nothing deal breaking, just something I noticed, maybe its just the first day without burn in


----------



## golov17




----------



## Tomasz2D

@golov17 For sure great place to carry spare pair of foams. Myself, usually I keep my sleeping pills in there


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> @golov17
> For sure great place to carry spare pair of foams. Myself, usually I keep my sleeping pills in there


Haha


----------



## vapman

Glad to see more jumping on the TY 650... I hope you all like it as much as i did, or i'll feel bad...
  
 I just finished up my Qian39 review 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just gotta take pics and spell check/edit... I compared it directly with the Cygnus, Monk Plus, TY 32... surprising results.


----------



## JASru

vapman said:


> Glad to see more jumping on the TY 650... I hope you all like it as much as i did, or i'll feel bad...
> 
> I just finished up my Qian39 review
> 
> ...


 
 I somehow was too impatient to wait for reviews. My Qian is on the way for a while)
 Anyway it would be a goodread if you publish it =)


----------



## JASru

I keep listening to TP-16 and I should say it is sooo good for casual listening at work. 
  
 I guess earbuds in general are really cool for office workers. Some music plus you are still aware of surroundings and can communciate freely.


----------



## kartik7405

Guys have a look at focal Elear and Utopia Usage Precaution .Such a scary manual.
 No point of spending huge amount on these headphone.
  
 Have a visit to this thread:-
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/749762/audioquest-nighthawk-impressions-and-discussion-thread/3675#post_12940099


----------



## kurtextrem

clieos said:


> Soundstage and bass depth.
> 
> K's soundstage is very immersive, which is kind of unique on its own. Most other earbuds either has a very open soundstage (i.e. Mojito) or a more normal soundstage (i.e. Zen 2) - K's on the other hand is more surrounding and enveloping, much like a closed full size can. As for bass depth - it has a very deep body, probably one of the best of any earbud.


 

 hmm... a closed full size can sounds like not the best option for gaming. I think open back headphones are superior...
 So either Rose Masya or TY Hi-Z HP650 then? (Shozy BK is too high priced for me)
 or maybe I should just go for the K 500 and find out how the soundstage is


----------



## vapman

And the Qian39 review is done 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/qianyun-qian39/reviews/17094
  
 Be sure to check it out! Dunno if it was as good as my TY 650 review but I hope it's good enough.
 Lemme know if you liked it, or didn't. =)


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> And the Qian39 review is done
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/qianyun-qian39/reviews/17094
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you dear


----------



## Doori

golov17 said:


>


 
 Did the same with Monk +, work better than cotton.


----------



## magitka27

fairx said:


> Sorry I have not. Maybe others who have both can pitch in. Take my impression as a grain of salt. Maybe we define everything differently. I can only compare with earbud that I have.
> 
> If I were to rank maybe
> 1. Ty 320
> ...


 
  
 i cant thank you enough for making me tempted to try that thingy XD, i will rent some ty from local owner here , if i'm satisfied it will be my next target earbud :v


vapman said:


> And the Qian39 review is done
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/qianyun-qian39/reviews/17094
> 
> ...


 
 Nice photograph and review as always vapman, i recommend this thing to my indonesian earbud lovers that find ty hi-z's mid region too forward and annoy 'em


----------



## luedriver

kartik7405 said:


> Guys have a look at focal Elear and Utopia Usage Precaution .Such a scary manual.
> No point of spending huge amount on these headphone.
> 
> Have a visit to this thread:-
> ...


 
 who knew that companies would use such exotic and dangerous materials in headphones?
  
 on the one hand, you have Beryllium and on the other pleather made from "eggshell membrane-derived proteins", 
  
 does that mean the egg shell, or the "skin" on the egg when you hard boil it after you peel off the eggshell?


----------



## luckyeights

Got my TY 650s in the mail last night.  They are very good!!!  I have the monk plus, t-music (version one) and the au glamour rx1.  Out of those, these are on a whole different level.  I am someone that uses over the ear headphones my favorite being the hifiman 400i.  These earbuds are like a set of open over ear cans with a very good close to flat frequency response.  These earbuds have good extension on both ends of the spectrum with no peaks or harshness, they are very smooth.  Even though they have a good flat response they are very enjoyable to listen to very musical and i atone that to the smoothness of their presentation. They have a good sound stage not artificial sounding like you feel your in some huge open space, the sound stage feels natural.   They have what i feel is a ever so slight warmness that sort of carries you effortlessly along with your music as you just strum along.  They are also very detailed and able to articulate finer details that my other buds simply cant, the bass is also very controlled and tight no bloat here.  These earbuds also EQ nicely i boosted their bass just a little as their un-eqed bass is good. I like a little extra =D  
  
 These buds play nicely on all devices without being amped and they sound amazing.  I tested them on my cheap $90 amazon fire 8 hd tablet and they reach my max listening level at around 70% volume.  You would expect this earbud not to play nice outside of being amped due to its high impedance but there is some sort of magic going on here as they really do work well on mobile devices unamped even cheap tablets. 
  
 I listen to all sorts of music from classical, country, rock, R&B, POP to artificially created music like dubstep or chilstep.  I would say these would be a very good all around earbud for anyone looking for a high end bud and you have the cash to spare.  I would also recommend if you dont have an amp, although as with any headphone using a good source and amp will always improve sound quality versus coming out of the cheap dac in any mobile device (cell phone/tablet).  
  
 I would not recommend these to anyone looking for a bud that is focused on one part of the spectrum (mid centric, treble head, or bass head)  Unless you dont mind eqing them.  Although to me their frequency response is very enjoyable right out of the box. Their bass is enough as is but I do like a little extra just for the fun factor.


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, Vsonic VSD3P has arrived, and I'm getting my initial listening in with an LG V10 using the typical Monk foams we all know and love.  Vocals are reasonable, but by no means special, and will be outperformed by vocal-based earbuds.  They sound good enough, but by no means special.  Bass kind of feels the same way.  It's by no means lacking, and certainly more present than some very well respected earbuds, but this very well might bore a basshead.  Treble feels maybe slightly muted, but that could be bias due to whatever I listened to last, which would be the Monk+ with Mic.  Detail isn't particularly remarkable either, as everything is missing a clarity those who love the Mojito and similarly designed iems/earbuds know.  All in all for the cost, I really would suggest buying a Monk+ and Ty Hi-Z 32, saving the rest of the money, and get an overall better experience with the two.  To be fair, it seems like a well enough rounded earbud, but doesn't really shine anywhere so far.  I will test soon how it handles bass boosting, so it might be a hidden gem in that respect.  Some listening was done earlier at work with a higher volume due to noise (45 volume instead of 35 at home), and I did enjoy Muse's The Resistance, but not the best testing environment.  Packing is VERY typical for VSonic, reminding me very much of my old VSD3's packaging, and included typical earbud foams as well as a carrying pouch with a knit design on the outside, and an rather soft interior lining that has a wonderful shininess to it.
  
 Now of course, these are very initial impressions, and of course could be swayed by lack of synergy with dap, possibility of burn in improving the earbud, etc.
  
 Edit:  I will say one thing I forgot to mention.  The sound has this laid back quality to it that reminds me a bit of the MX985, so it honestly feels like it's sound would be relaxing enough to take a nap to.


----------



## ClieOS

luedriver said:


> who knew that companies would use such exotic and dangerous materials in headphones?
> 
> on the one hand, you have Beryllium and on the other* pleather made from "eggshell membrane-derived proteins",*
> 
> does that mean the egg shell, or the "skin" on the egg when you hard boil it after you peel off the eggshell?


 
  
 That's just a case of poor translation between Chinese and English. Good quality PU leather, which combines an actual inner leather layer with a top layer polyurethane, is usually referred '蛋白皮耳套'. It means (not in a very precise way) 'protein-leather-earpad' in Chinese, meaning the earpad contains actual leather (or protein) layer. But auto translation often just confuses it as 'egg white leather earpad', then further trying to 'correct' it to eggshell membrane-derived proteins - which of course has nothing to do with eggshell membrane in anyway.


----------



## kinetic758

music4mhell said:


> Do you really like Ostry KC08 sound ?
> I never used this more than 3/4 times in last 10 months.




For hip hop and R&B on the go, its great.


----------



## luckyeights

Well im not too sure it could be eggshell.  I know the massdrop fostex thx00s use an eggshell protein earpad.  It breathes unlike pu leather and has a softer more comfortable feel than leather. 
  
 https://www.massdrop.com/buy/fostex-x-massdrop-th-x00


----------



## fairx

magitka27 said:


> i cant thank you enough for making me tempted to try that thingy XD, i will rent some ty from local owner here , if i'm satisfied it will be my next target earbud :v




To be honest after 60-70 hour burn I now rank them way up maybe 3 step ahead of rx-1 and tomahawk. 

TY hi-z Hp320 WILL DISSECT ANY MUSIC YOU THROW AT IT AND PRESENT IT TO YOU GLORIOUSLY IN IMAX MODE! 

I shoved it to my friends from audiphlile to non audiophile, teenagers to late 40s. All sort of phone and music genres, with and without amp and all of them wowed. As a compliment I also lure them with Sennheiser momentum 2 on ear headphone as comparison and all of them choose ty 320ohm as being better sonically.

 Well of course it is


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> @BloodyPenguin Have you heard the Qian39 and possible to compare to those Vido's you have (I forget the name, but the cheap Taobao ones you said had the best bass you knew) because the Qian39's bass is so comparable to the depth & power of the TY 650 I think it might deserve a review.


 
  
 Vapman, I have not heard the Qian39 yet.  It is on my short list to purchase though, even more so after reading your review on them.
  
 I also REALLY want the TY 650 as well, though not sure if I will ever get a pair of those or not, a bit pricey.
  
 I already have a bunch of earbuds that are in transit to me from all over the world, including the MusicMaker - TKY2 and Earbud Thailand - White Hawk.  Plus a bunch of other super cheap budget buds.
  
 --


----------



## AkashS04

After reading your review of Qian39, it seems they are even better than Monk+. However, one issue I am having in ordering them is that none of them has Mic. Are they with Mic also as for Monk+ I can see but it is weird looking Mic and no picture with Mic and Earbud both in same pic. Anything like Qian39 with Mic? How is BYZ-s600. Did you try them too?


----------



## music4mhell

akashs04 said:


> After reading your review of Qian39, it seems they are even better than Monk+. However, one issue I am having in ordering them is that none of them has Mic. Are they with Mic also as for Monk+ I can see but it is weird looking Mic and no picture with Mic and Earbud both in same pic. Anything like Qian39 with Mic? How is BYZ-s600. Did you try them too?


 
 LoL !


----------



## Saoshyant

For those who have ordered the **** PT15 already, has anyone ordered it with the silver cable?  I'm tempted to give that one a try, but $42 for it vs $30 for a standard cable, it's a rough call if I should just go the cheaper route or not.  Any thoughts?


----------



## music4mhell

saoshyant said:


> For those who have ordered the **** PT15 already, has anyone ordered it with the silver cable?  I'm tempted to give that one a try, but $42 for it vs $30 for a standard cable, it's a rough call if I should just go the cheaper route or not.  Any thoughts?


 
 If i like normal cable version of ****, then i will for sure order Silver version also.


----------



## Ira Delphic

nachash said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > On Ali search for "**** PT15 " there's a different seller with 4 different cable options and also without cable.
> ...


 
  
 The seller that I purchased from shipped it last night. And this seller also has in the description a typo (?) - "Graphite bush Dynamic Driver"  as opposed to other sellers - "Graphene Dynamic Driver Unit."
  
 There are patents for Graphene audio drivers (Electrostatic graphene speaker ) - 
  
 https://www.google.com/patents/WO2014100012A1?cl=en&dq=graphene+audio&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwidl5qgyeTPAhUEdh4KHWoIBIYQ6AEIHDAA
 https://www.google.com/patents/WO2014100012A1?cl=en&dq=graphene+audio&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwidl5qgyeTPAhUEdh4KHWoIBIYQ6AEIHDAA#legal-events
  
 My searching for a graphene audio product came up with nothing in the pipeline from other audio companies. The skeptic in me says that this is not graphene, but a standard dynamic driver with magnet and a graphite spray or coating. It would be easy enough for someone to open the shell and check out the driver. If true graphene technology won't have a magnet.
  
 Any info on **** as a company other than their IEM's etc? Do they have a website that has announced the PT15? Is there a **** representative on Head-Fi? If it is a **** product, the sound may be really good regardless of the driver and marketing claims.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Hey guys, just want to introduce you people to this earbud by the same manufacturer as the DIY POWERBEATS Dual Drivers.
  
 Extremely good detail retrival for the price with a sound signature focusing more on the upper section of the frequency spectrum with very good soundstage (dare I say almost as good if not equal to the DD's (if memory serves me right as the DD is at my hometown now).


  

  
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.23.aDIYE1&id=38265311694&ns=1&abbucket=13#detail
  
 48RMB......
  
 Just my honest opinion.


----------



## ld100

akashs04 said:


> After reading your review of Qian39, it seems they are even better than Monk+. However, one issue I am having in ordering them is that none of them has Mic. Are they with Mic also as for Monk+ I can see but it is weird looking Mic and no picture with Mic and Earbud both in same pic. Anything like Qian39 with Mic? How is BYZ-s600. Did you try them too?


 
  
 Oh my... It has to be trolling...
  
 Dude, they are six bucks... Seriously... Just get them and the Monk and if you don't like them give them away as presents...


----------



## JASru

saoshyant said:


> For those who have ordered the **** PT15 already, has anyone ordered it with the silver cable?  I'm tempted to give that one a try, but $42 for it vs $30 for a standard cable, it's a rough call if I should just go the cheaper route or not.  Any thoughts?


 
 I would say that it ain't worth it with 70+% chance. The stock cable sucks in this price range anyway. I ordered the cheapest version.


----------



## AkashS04

Yes. Not very expensive but I was just trying to find out something with Mic. For that, I am considering below:
  
BYZ S600 Noodles Earphone

RY04 original in-ear Earphone metal manufacturer 15mm music quality sound HIFI Earphone (IE800 style cable) 3.5mm

Vrme Earphone Sport Earphones Earbuds Stereo Headphones Music Headset With HD Mic

  
  
 Regards,
 Akash


----------



## golov17

akashs04 said:


> Yes. Not very expensive but I was just trying to find out something with Mic. For that, I am considering below:
> 
> [COLOR=000080]BYZ S600 Noodles Earphone[/color]
> 
> ...


Remax rm303 http://s.aliexpress.com/UJv6B7jY 
Monk Plus with mic http://s.aliexpress.com/7ZrEjmAb


----------



## JASru

Wow. 
 Some people  are really choosing for long. 
 It was three days between the date that I came to this thread and the moment I ordered Monk+ and extension pack.
 Two weeks later RX-1 and Tomahawk were on their way.
  
 I am not saying that I should be a role model and I do undestand that some people have very different income, but... Monks at least are really cheap...


----------



## Saoshyant

music4mhell said:


> If i like normal cable version of ****, then i will for sure order Silver version also.


 
  
 After mobile discount & store coupon for HCK, it cost just over $39 for the silver cable version, so I figured why not and ordered.
  
 On the topic of a different earbud, I've been listening to the VSD3P for 2 or so hours so far, having gone through some Orchestral music as well as Moby's take on Ambient, and moving onto something that I suppose you could call Alternative Folk that's become popular in the past few years.  Honestly, this earbud so far is just really easy to listen to.  While it may not stand out like the Cygnus or Mojito in their respective strengths, this one just seems to sound decent with what I've tried so far.  Perhaps I was being a little too harsh on the earlier initial judgments, and I still think the Hi-Z 32 & Monk+ will most likely be a better use for the money at roughly a third of the cost combined, but there's some potential here.  And the comfort is utterly top notch.  The only way I'm even aware they're in my ears is if I move my ears, otherwise they disappear.


----------



## Saoshyant

jasru said:


> I would say that it ain't worth it with 70+% chance. The stock cable sucks in this price range anyway. I ordered the cheapest version.


 
  Well, as I don't have a single MMCX cable I like, let alone one I'd like to use with earbuds due to memory wire, I figure worst comes to worst I'm out $12 or so, which isn't the end of the world.  Plus, I might like the cable and dislike the earbud, and I can just use the cable with one of my other two MMCX earbuds.  But I don't mind taking a shot on it.


----------



## AkashS04

Thnx. So Monk+ is with Mic actually. I asked this question to seller but no reply. Also, Is Remax Earbud good, very Warm, Bassy and good details like what other have mentioned abt Monk+ and Qian39 etc.? And not Harsh at all?


----------



## golov17

akashs04 said:


> Thnx. So Monk+ is with Mic actually. I asked this question to seller but no reply. Also, Is Remax Earbud good, very Warm, Bassy and good details like what other have mentioned abt Monk+ and Qian39 etc.? And not Harsh at all?


softly and nicely


----------



## magitka27

fairx said:


> To be honest after 60-70 hour burn I now rank them way up maybe 3 step ahead of rx-1 and tomahawk.
> 
> TY hi-z Hp320 WILL DISSECT ANY MUSIC YOU THROW AT IT AND PRESENT IT TO YOU GLORIOUSLY IN IMAX MODE!
> 
> ...


 





 wait i forget to ask you which type of ty hi-z that you have? the white-colored housing or black-colored housing??


----------



## JASru

saoshyant said:


> Well, as I don't have a single MMCX cable I like, let alone one I'd like to use with earbuds due to memory wire, I figure worst comes to worst I'm out $12 or so, which isn't the end of the world.  Plus, I might like the cable and dislike the earbud, and I can just use the cable with one of my other two MMCX earbuds.  But I don't mind taking a shot on it.


 
 Well, there was a link few pages before -  less than 10 usd for cable with free delivery, made by Tingo. Looks better than typical ones.
  
 I am still waiting for an MMCX earbud/IEM I would call my endgame to order a custom cable.
 I wonder why so few earbuds are coming with replaceble cable, it's not that they have no room for it, like it may be for IEM.


----------



## Ira Delphic

akashs04 said:


> Thnx. So Monk+ is with Mic actually. I asked this question to seller but no reply. Also, Is Remax Earbud good, very Warm, Bassy and good details like what other have mentioned abt Monk+ and Qian39 etc.? And not Harsh at all?


 
  
 AkashS04 are you the AI bot created at Mellon University CS dept that trolls forums to see how many questions can be answered before the forum members have had enough? If not please accept my apologies.


----------



## golov17

Earmax cable good
http://s.aliexpress.com/aeum6BbA


----------



## Saoshyant

@golov17 I'll let the rest of you know what I think of the silver cable included with the PT15.  If I remember, I could have sworn I've read something good about the cable in the Asian IEM thread, maybe with the 4in1.


----------



## AkashS04

My apology for asking the questions. But I thought people will help me here. And it is very difficult for me to buy something which I have not listened at all. Not even seen. I throw away JVC and EM3 in this way as I did not hear them so don't want to do that again. Problem is that buying the earbuds from AliExpress will take 40 days to deliver and if I don't like, then another 40 days to buy other. That's why I was trying to get as much information as I can so when I buy, it will be perfect for my requirement.


----------



## AkashS04

And with good bass as well?


----------



## AkashS04

One question, if I order 2-3 earbuds from AliExpress, can I combined the shipping and save cost?


----------



## Saoshyant

@AkashS04 No need to apologize, sometimes people's patience isn't their strength.  They just feel they've given you enough advice to make a choice, and you feel there are more questions to ask before you decide.  I'm one of those that feels the Monk+ with Mic is a good option for any earbud listener as it's a very good earbud for it's price, but there's always the chance it's just not the type of sound you're looking for.  There's also the Ty Hi-Z 32 which is bassier than the Monk+, but not as detailed to me at least.  There are really a lot of options at the lower price range, so there's a lot of information to read through.


----------



## JASru

golov17 said:


> Earmax cable good
> http://s.aliexpress.com/aeum6BbA


 
 You already have one? 
 Looks good to me.
 I can only recommend this, but it is overear and may not fit: https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/Tennmak-Upgrade-Silver-Plated-MMCX-Cable-Detachable-Cable-for-Tennmak-PRO-Piano-SE215-SE315-SE425-SE535/32615926395.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.4yW8y0
 But its durability is superb.


----------



## Holypal

Subscribe.


----------



## JASru

akashs04 said:


> My apology for asking the questions. But I thought people will help me here. And it is very difficult for me to buy something which I have not listened at all. Not even seen. I throw away JVC and EM3 in this way as I did not hear them so don't want to do that again. Problem is that buying the earbuds from AliExpress will take 40 days to deliver and if I don't like, then another 40 days to buy other. That's why I was trying to get as much information as I can so when I buy, it will be perfect for my requirement.


 
 Be sure that you won't find anything perfect in this price range and with microphone for sure, as it narrows the search.
 Do not get your hopes too high.
  
 Don't wanna sound like total jackass, but it is true. Cheapos aren't perfect. If you manage to get an earbud that is good at least for something - that's already an achievement.
 Recently I got TDK BP100 for around 10 usd - complete waste of money, but that was expected given the price range.
 Qian, Monks, TY and others - are more an exception, than a rule. Most Sub 20usd earphones are not even decent.
  
 And more to it - your hearing might be completely different to ours. Yep. That happens. If colors perception varies greatly why hearing shouldn't?
 The only way to be sure is to find the local owner and to ask them directly to let you listen for some time.


----------



## JASru

Now that I read my post and I feel myself a jackass =/
 Sorry if that offends you.
 That wasn't my objective.


----------



## luckyeights

akashs04 said:


> My apology for asking the questions. But I thought people will help me here. And it is very difficult for me to buy something which I have not listened at all. Not even seen. I throw away JVC and EM3 in this way as I did not hear them so don't want to do that again. Problem is that buying the earbuds from AliExpress will take 40 days to deliver and if I don't like, then another 40 days to buy other. That's why I was trying to get as much information as I can so when I buy, it will be perfect for my requirement.


 
 I am going to make this as blunt and as easy to understand as I can.  The only way you will ever know what you like is to order several cheap earbuds under $10 like all of us did.  Find out what you like, what sound signature, what brand and then buy from the higher end of their line once you have determined your baseline.  End of discussion, please go and order a cheap TY, Monk plus, and what ever cheap earbud peaks your interest and find out your own taste.  We can only help those that help themselves by finding out what you like dont like ect.   So once you have a few cheap buds and found out what you like feel free to come back and post your thoughts and we might be able to point you to a higher end Bud.  But for now go figure out what you like its the only way you will know we cant help you in that respect sorry.


----------



## AkashS04

Thanks for your message. I was about to order Monk+ and then I read review of Qian39 and saw that it is having more Bass and Warmess and better than Monk+ but sad that it does not have Mic. I am trying if I can buy iPod Nano 1st Gen as I believe that no Earbud will sound good without that. But that might take some time as that is not less than $125 for New and $60-70 for old in good condition.
  
 If some earbud can sound really good with my iPod nano 7th Gen, I am ready to spend $150 also. But then there will be some reservation if the same earbud would have sounded better with Nano 1st gen. 
  
 Let me finalise and order something ASAP.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Shozy Star: https://www.facebook.com/shozyofficial/photos/a.408571719323943.1073741835.163023947212056/663789470468832/?type=3&theater


----------



## JASru

Guys,
  
 Is it safe to order Masya already?)
 Anyone received their piece aside from ClieOS?


----------



## music4mhell

jasru said:


> Guys,
> 
> Is it safe to order Masya already?)
> Anyone received their piece aside from ClieOS?


 
 i ordered yesterday with K500


----------



## AudioNewbi3

akashs04 said:


> Thanks for your message. I was about to order Monk+ and then I read review of Qian39 and saw that it is having more Bass and Warmess and better than Monk+ but sad that it does not have Mic. *I am trying if I can buy iPod Nano 1st Gen as I believe that no Earbud will sound good without that.* But that might take some time as that is not less than $125 for New and $60-70 for old in good condition.
> 
> If some earbud can sound really good with my iPod nano 7th Gen, I am ready to spend $150 also. But then there will be some reservation if the same earbud would have sounded better with Nano 1st gen.
> 
> Let me finalise and order something ASAP.


 
 Mate, any form of audio gear be it earbuds or iem or cans will have the following rule:
  
_A cheap earbud will sound like crap from a crap source
 A cheap earbud will sound better from a good source_
  
_An expensive earbud will sound good from a crap source_
_An expensive earbud will sound best from a good source_
  
 And then there are the exceptions of the few budget kings which other members in this thread have gone to great lengths to explain to you. 
 Just my 2 cents


----------



## fairx

magitka27 said:


> wait i forget to ask you which type of ty hi-z that you have? the white-colored housing or black-colored housing??


Mine is Hp320. Black shell and braided greyish cable.


----------



## magitka27

fairx said:


> Mine is Hp320. Black shell and braided greyish cable.


 
 well then i have to save more money to buy that thing, a little bit pricey here in Indonesia, reached IDR 850000 w/o shipping, (well its 70bucks no?) 
 strong contender beside yuin pk2 and Mr Ting z (the elder siblings of tomahawk) 
  
 thank you again for your references ! hehe


----------



## ld100

audionewbi3 said:


> Mate, any form of audio gear be it earbuds or iem or cans will have the following rule:
> 
> _A cheap earbud will sound like crap from a crap source
> A cheap earbud will sound better from a good source_
> ...


 
  
 While I am not an expert on iPods I think that whole way of thinking that 1gen vs 7gen iPod with cheap earbuds will make a lot of difference is totally unsound. With very high end earphones maybe... But with low end earbuds? While Apple products I have (and I do have a lot including ipod classic, iphones, multiple macs, ipad, multiple apple tvs...) certainly don't sound amazing and benefit from external DAC technology Apple historically is very good about improving their products. Latest ipod can not be so inferior to previous gen that it can be noticeable on cheap earbuds... Absolutely no way... Just my opinion which is not really based on any testing, but simply on common sense...


----------



## CingKrab

akashs04 said:


> I am trying if I can buy iPod Nano 1st Gen as I believe that no Earbud will sound good without that.


 
  
 Just curious as to why you believe that?  I've had a Nano 1st gen before and I didn't think it was _that_ special...


----------



## AkashS04

Because the Sound Chip used in iPod nano 1st Gen is Wolfson and it is much better than the current Cirrus Logic Chip. Wolfson chip has extremely good Bass Response and Warmness while the current one is crap in compare to that.


----------



## AkashS04

I have tested both and there is no comparison of Nano 1st and 7th Gen. 1st Gen is 1000 times better than 7th Gen. I made mistake that I returned that  (1st gen) to get new one thinking the same that newer one will be improved version but it turned out to be much inferior in terms of sound quality In terms of Build, size, weight etc., no doubt that 7th Gen is very good.


----------



## fairx

magitka27 said:


> well then i have to save more money to buy that thing, a little bit pricey here in Indonesia, reached IDR 850000 w/o shipping, (well its 70bucks no?)
> 
> strong contender beside yuin pk2 and Mr Ting z (the elder siblings of tomahawk)
> 
> ...



I bought mine at 47 usd. The price was meant for Hp320M. The real price of Hp320 is higher but only few dollars. The price fluctuate constantly on aliexpress. I usually wait till discount. However you could try asking for price discount as mentioned here by the veterans . I never ask for head-fi discounts before maybe I should start soon. 

For us Malaysian with currency woes it's pricey too buy too. I really wanted to try high ohm earbud for quite some time I even save for a desktop amp. But rest assured most decent amp will do. Tried with my friend fiio Q1 dac amp and it's sound very good. 

For the fidelity it reproduce the price Is silly in comparison. I have soundmagic iem which cost around 60usd I used to love and hp320 destroy it in everything except lowest bass reach. I don't have many experience with TOTL iem / headphones but I audition many before. 

As a consolation, I'm pretty confident of what I'm hearing. My best experience is with fitear and hifiman Shangri-la prototype demo set. While I can't recall much of them since it's been a while, I like 320 much more than Sennheiser ie80 iem or final audio heaven vii. 

I won't call 320 the best in the world but it's the best I own right now. Perhaps until my next venture.


----------



## CingKrab

akashs04 said:


> Because the Sound Chip used in iPod nano 1st Gen is Wolfson and it is much better than the current Cirrus Logic Chip. Wolfson chip has extremely good Bass Response and Warmness while the current one is crap in compare to that.


 
  
 That's... kind of beside the point.  Have you considered another DAP instead of hunting down one that's been discontinued for a decade?


----------



## Spider fan

All this Wolfson talk made me dig out my Ipod 5.5.  Mojitos sound great out of it.  Man if the the Masaya does a good percentage of what the mojitos does well but with better mids it is going to be killer.


----------



## golov17

Mids i want too


----------



## ld100

akashs04 said:


> I have tested both and there is no comparison of Nano 1st and 7th Gen. 1st Gen is 1000 times better than 7th Gen. I made mistake that I returned that  (1st gen) to get new one thinking the same that newer one will be improved version but it turned out to be much inferior in terms of sound quality In terms of Build, size, weight etc., no doubt that 7th Gen is very good.


 
  
 It is probably more a placebo effect than anything else. There is no chance that using 5 dollar earbuds without an external DAC will make any difference. Even if there was a Wolfson DAC in the 1st gen it a chip from 10+ years ago. In technology time it is beyond ancient. Yes there is some way of thinking that 5 gen iPod classic is better than the rest... (I have 6th gen), but with earbuds of the MP level it does not matter.
  
 As few others stated you over thinking and will not find a 10$ End Game earbud that will with combination with 1st gen ipod put you in audio heaven.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

ld100 said:


> While I am not an expert on iPods I think that whole way of thinking that 1gen vs 7gen iPod with cheap earbuds will make a lot of difference is totally unsound. With very high end earphones maybe... But with low end earbuds? While Apple products I have (and I do have a lot including ipod classic, iphones, multiple macs, ipad, multiple apple tvs...) certainly don't sound amazing and benefit from external DAC technology Apple historically is very good about improving their products. Latest ipod can not be so inferior to previous gen that it can be noticeable on cheap earbuds... Absolutely no way... Just my opinion which is not really based on any testing, but simply on common sense...


 
 Yup, that is very true.
 But one cannot dismiss the fact that cheapo gear will sound slightly better with better source no?
 At least that is what I experience when using my Z3 compact vs Xduoo X3.


----------



## AkashS04

Cpl of things here. 1st, I searched little bit but did not find any DAP with same Sound Chip. The one which is available is with WM8740 Chip and I am unable to compare it with WM8975G or WM8975 Chip. 
  
 2nd thing, I want something which is small and can be put into pocket with just around 40 grams weight but unfortunately, none of the Music Player is less than 150 Grm weight or something. I don't want to carry two phones?
  
 Also, new DAPs are very expensive like $350 or even more. I really don't mind paying that amount but not very comfortable in spending that money for something bulky and heavy thing. I might solve the purpose of good quality sound but  will surely not be handy at all. 
  
 If you are aware of any Music Player which is like 7th gen Nano in terms of Size and Weight but 1st Gen Nano in terms of sound, pls let me know.


----------



## Ira Delphic

akashs04 said:


> Cpl of things here. 1st, I searched little bit but did not find any DAP with same Sound Chip. The one which is available is with WM8740 Chip and I am unable to compare it with WM8975G or WM8975 Chip.
> 
> 2nd thing, I want something which is small and can be put into pocket with just around 40 grams weight but unfortunately, none of the Music Player is less than 150 Grm weight or something. I don't want to carry two phones?
> 
> ...


 
  
  Wrong thread. This is Earbuds Round-Up. There's a DAP thread with lots of friendly head-fiers that will answer your questions, discuss 1st Gen nano, etc.


----------



## AkashS04

Pls note that the discussion just started on iPod and Wolfson Chip. And After all, everything is Music here so I don't see any harm in discussing other things here. And no one will have objection on that too. Moreover, I posted my queries on other threads you mentioned but seems they are dead threads now.


----------



## ld100

audionewbi3 said:


> Yup, that is very true.
> But one cannot dismiss the fact that cheapo gear will sound slightly better with better source no?
> At least that is what I experience when using my Z3 compact vs Xduoo X3.


 
  
 Yes in theory. But in reality what we are talking about here is just lunacy. RESPECTFULLY to all parties involved!
  
 We are talking about seeking out first gen ipod released in 2001 wth DAC cheap from 2001 and then pairing it with Apple earbuds for great sound... Shoot me now, please!!! This is not analog technology that does not really change. This is a very cheap dac chip from almost two decades ago. Good back in a day. Maybe great back in a day. The key here is back in a day. 16 years... I am willing to bet that a current cheap(!)  Fiio 50-100$ player has a much better DAC cheap and with Monk Plus will absolutely destroy ipod with apple buds... If it was me that is what I would do. Get a current player with a good DAC cheap and start from MP and like... And then figure out which other buds to try as most of us here do... Continue on going ipod classic road does sound as trolling to me. Unintentional trolling maybe if there is such thing... I don't want to offend the inquiring party, but he seems to ignore opinion of people who want to help him.
  
 On a side note my integrated amp has a Wolfson DAC. I will out of curiosity connect my MP to it today and see if there is much difference between Wolfson and my other dac and basic iphone. I been wanting to do that for a while, but never got to it. Interesting how Wolfson DAC from 2015 will compare... But again this is a 2015 hi end Wolfson DAC and not 2001...


----------



## AkashS04

With due respect, there is no comparison of FIIO with iPod Nano 1st Gen. Wolfson Chip in Nano 1st G might be old but it was not crap from any perspective. Now the Chip which is used in iPod or other players are good in a way that it will have more detailed sound but just after listening to 1-2 hours, your ear will start paining and you cannot bear any more. For real comparison, I would recommend you to keep FIIO and iPod nano 1st gen side by side and then compare them through couple of songs. Just because something is new does not mean it is good also. Especially, new things are meant for short term use that you use for 1 year and throw away and buy the next model. People used to keep Nokia Phone for years and now $1000+ Phones last for 1-2 years hardly.


----------



## Holypal

Try to order **** PT15 now.


----------



## Ira Delphic

holypal said:


> What I received from a Aliexpress seller:
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


 
  
 You may have missed my earlier post. Mine has shipped and I have a tracking number.


----------



## Holypal

ira delphic said:


> You may have missed my earlier post. Mine has shipped and I have a tracking number.


 
  
  
 It's strange. Can you track your item?   Sometimes they give a fake number because aliexpress request it, but the courier doesn't have it.


----------



## batonchik03

kinetic758 said:


> Out of curiosity, "old school" as in 90's hip hop or more 80's?
> 
> I'd recommend Monk+ and, if you can spring more, the Ostry KC08.
> 
> By the way, the new De La Soul album is great if haven't heard it yet (and mastered with quite a big low end bump).




Thanx man. But I have first monks first revision and liked them only at the beginning. Listening them now feeling like smith is missing. Soundstage is cool but it feels like body and texture of sound was sacrificed to make excellent soundstage. However, i haven't listened to monk +.


----------



## CingKrab

akashs04 said:


> Cpl of things here. 1st, I searched little bit but did not find any DAP with same Sound Chip. The one which is available is with WM8740 Chip and I am unable to compare it with WM8975G or WM8975 Chip.
> 
> 2nd thing, I want something which is small and can be put into pocket with just around 40 grams weight but unfortunately, none of the Music Player is less than 150 Grm weight or something. I don't want to carry two phones?
> 
> ...


 
  
 https://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/sansa-clip-measured.html
  
 Just get a Sansa Clip+ then?  People really love it.  Fiio makes a bunch of DAPs that are very lightweight as well.  There is also something like the Xduoo X2, or X3 if 100g is not too much for you.
  
 Now, "1st Gen Nano in terms of sound" no one can guarantee.  Of course it's not going to be identical.  Even two different implementation of the same DAC is not guaranteed to sound the same.


----------



## AkashS04

Which is more warmer, Bassy and Detailed and not harsh. Qian 39 or Monk+? Which one will you order if you want to order one of them?


----------



## Ira Delphic

holypal said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > You may have missed my earlier post. Mine has shipped and I have a tracking number.
> ...


 
  
 Tracking # isn't showing up yet - I replaced actual number with x's
  
*Tracking information is available within 5-10 days.
 You could track your order here while it is in Origin Country
 Data Provided by CAINIAO Global
 Tracking number:  xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 logistics company:  ePacket*


----------



## Holypal

Japan has made graphene-coated earphone:
 http://www.maxell.jp/consumer/headphone/mxh-gd200_gd100/mxh-gd200_gd100.html
  
 The description says "_graphene-coated diaphragm".  _So tt maybe not entire graphene, but graphene-coated. 
  
 The price is around 8820 JPY, ~85 USD


----------



## ld100

akashs04 said:


> With due respect, there is no comparison of FIIO with iPod Nano 1st Gen. Wolfson Chip in Nano 1st G might be old but it was not crap from any perspective. Now the Chip which is used in iPod or other players are good in a way that it will have more detailed sound but just after listening to 1-2 hours, your ear will start paining and you cannot bear any more. For real comparison, I would recommend you to keep FIIO and iPod nano 1st gen side by side and then compare them through couple of songs. Just because something is new does not mean it is good also. Especially, new things are meant for short term use that you use for 1 year and throw away and buy the next model. People used to keep Nokia Phone for years and now $1000+ Phones last for 1-2 years hardly.


 
  
 Body, by your logic Nokia phones are better than iPhones because people used them for years?
  
 I had I believe 4 Nokia phones in the 90s. Great phones. But please let them stay in the 90s and I will use my iPhone over all of them together and even over current Nokia phone on top (or whatever became of it after Microsoft took over...)
  
 Great phone back in a day can't compete with current iPhone. You trying to measure CHEAP Apple dap of first generation with current players. It is pointless at this point... You can have your opinion and I can have mine, I will take current ok player over 16 years old apple player any time. Coming to you from BIG apple fan by the way... Just to let you know I had in a past owned quite few apple daps... Including first gen mini... Which ended up on Ebay with no regrets on my part.
  
 Lets go back to earbuds discussion please. I think quite few stated our opinions and there is nothing else to say...
  
 Patiently waiting for detailed BK review...


----------



## ryanjsoo

Does that Nokia support OTG? Sounds like a solid DAP with 2 week batterylife to me?


----------



## JASru

I never got the idea behind worshiping Apple product, be it pods or phones, but praising something that is over a decade old? I would have believed that it may be good after proper modding, but without any upgrades it wouldn't even be in the same league as Sansa+.
Sorry for continuing the offtop, but this is ridiculous.


----------



## JASru

Returning to the topic: are there any Paiaudio PR1 owners? It is pretty low on the round-up, but I wanted to know why?))


----------



## vapman

batonchik03 said:


> Thanx man. But I have first monks first revision and liked them only at the beginning. Listening them now feeling like smith is missing. Soundstage is cool but it feels like body and texture of sound was sacrificed to make excellent soundstage. However, i haven't listened to monk +.




IMO get Qian39 and Monk Plus, both great buds  even if i am preferring the slightly more tiring qian for now. 

Also i am going to buy a handful of pre-terminated cables for easily recabling of a few buds, any of you guys found a store that sells good ones at a decent price? Theres way too much option on Ali.


----------



## vapman

holypal said:


> Japan has made graphene-coated earphone:
> http://www.maxell.jp/consumer/headphone/mxh-gd200_gd100/mxh-gd200_gd100.html
> 
> The description says "_graphene-coated diaphragm". _ So tt maybe not entire graphene, but graphene-coated.
> ...




Man i got all excited Maxell was making high end buds, but they were just IEMs all along.... *cries*


----------



## JASru

vapman said:


> Man i got all excited Maxell was making high end buds, but they were just IEMs all along.... *cries*


 There is still a chance that **** won't be **** with carbonised membrane. Give it a chance. A month of waiting ain't that long.


----------



## ClieOS

akashs04 said:


> Thanks for your message. I was about to order Monk+ and then I read review of Qian39 and saw that it is having more Bass and Warmess and better than Monk+ but sad that it does not have Mic....
> 
> Let me finalise and order something ASAP.


 
  
 You do realize it is almost guarantee that there will be a (or several) new review or impression tomorrow, which somehow reads just like your next pair of dream earbud that will be better than whichever you have considered to be your absolutely "best" choice just 5 minutes before you read that review - then you start doubting yourself and really want reassurance that your new choice is better.... and only to start the whole cycle again the next day - read something new, doubt oneself again, ask for more opinion, repeat the next day - you are Tom Cruise in Edge of Tomorrow except you are not really saving yourself or the world, because somehow you seems to have find safety in the looping around.


----------



## Ira Delphic

holypal said:


> Japan has made graphene-coated earphone:
> http://www.maxell.jp/consumer/headphone/mxh-gd200_gd100/mxh-gd200_gd100.html
> 
> The description says "_graphene-coated diaphragm".  _So tt maybe not entire graphene, but graphene-coated.
> ...


 
  
 In the patents that I saw the graphene driver has no magnet. Nothing is coated, just graphene membrane and votage running through it.


----------



## purplesun

holypal said:


> Japan has made graphene-coated earphone:
> http://www.maxell.jp/consumer/headphone/mxh-gd200_gd100/mxh-gd200_gd100.html
> 
> The description says "_graphene-coated diaphragm".  _So tt maybe not entire graphene, but graphene-coated.
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, graphene-coated does make a lot more sense for a normally priced earbud. Less nerd appeal for me, but at least it should sound more like a regular earbud. Will  probably still sound decent with ****'s usual sound signature. I guess the hype train should probably coast along a bit slower now until someone receives and reviews the PT15.


----------



## vapman

jasru said:


> There is still a chance that **** won't be **** with carbonised membrane. Give it a chance. A month of waiting ain't that long.


 

 I'm really hoping it's good! But seems like a lot of people already ordered some, so I'll wait for impressions, and buy one if it sounds good. 
  
 (I got some Aliexpress mail today, thought it was gonna be Green Ting, but it was the two Tamagotchis I forgot I bought.... good use of $2.50.)


----------



## Holypal

ira delphic said:


> In the patents that I saw the graphene driver has no magnet. Nothing is coated, just graphene membrane and votage running through it.


 
  
 That's Graphene electrostatic headphone you're talking about. I think Dynamic drivers all have magnets.


----------



## JASru

vapman said:


> I'm really hoping it's good! But seems like a lot of people already ordered some, so I'll wait for impressions, and buy one if it sounds good.
> 
> (I got some Aliexpress mail today, thought it was gonna be Green Ting, but it was the two Tamagotchis I forgot I bought.... good use of $2.50.)


 I am one of those ppl. I own one **** IEM and it looks and sounds very good imo. However all current **** products tend to lack bass and have a bright or even too bright signature. That's may not be the case for PT15 as it is completely new, but there is a good chance we get an RX-1 with improved highs, but still lacking lows.


----------



## AkashS04

Is Qian 39 more warmer, bassier and detailed and very smoother than Monk+?


----------



## petan970

ira delphic said:


> nachash said:
> 
> 
> > frederick wang said:
> ...




I just ordered these PT15 earbuds from Jim HCK because he has very good price for headfi members. I think it's presale too.


----------



## AkashS04

Sansa+ is not as Warm as iPod. That's what I read in one of the reviews. However, that guy liked Sansa+ due to this reason only but I believe it will be tiresome and punishment to your ears if you listen to something for long time which is somehow harsh and not smooth.


----------



## Ira Delphic

jasru said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > I'm really hoping it's good! But seems like a lot of people already ordered some, so I'll wait for impressions, and buy one if it sounds good.
> ...


 
  
 Did you get shipping notification/tracking number?


----------



## AkashS04

You mentioned that Trebel is tiring in Qian 39. So does that mean that it is not smooth and little harsh?


----------



## fonkepala

Loving my Ty Hi Z 32ohm buds which arrived today. For the price, it came with much better accessories than MP. I especially like the foams, they're quite a bit thicker and durable compared to the thin foams that comes with the MP. The ear fins also work a treat. As for the sound, I find it to be very good, spacious and airy. They're not suitable for noisy commutes however, as with most buds the isolation is lacking. But perhaps I need more listening time and burn in time before coming to a conclusion. For now I'm enjoying listening to them.


----------



## purplesun

Just trying out the Auglamour RX-1 after a day's burn, my dainty-bass & midrange loving ears is pretty much having a teenage crush on these earbuds. Treble's a tiny bit prickly but, after 4in1, it's nothing I can't handle. This must be an infuriating earphones for bassheads though, all that wonderful midrange slam (is there such a thing?) yet so little bass. This has to be the best first earbud for long-time IEM users making a transition to earbuds, it almost like there's a Knowles BA inside this RX-1. I think I will change the plug later to an L-plug and try using this as my daily beater.


----------



## JASru

purplesun said:


> Just trying out the Auglamour RX-1 after a day's burn, my dainty-bass & midrange loving ears is pretty much having a teenage crush on these earbuds. Treble's a tiny bit prickly but, after 4in1, it's nothing I can't handle. This must be an infuriating earphones for bassheads though, all that wonderful midrange slam (is there such a thing?) yet so little bass. This has to be the best first earbud for long-time IEM users making a transition to earbuds, it almost like there's a Knowles BA inside this RX-1. I think I will change the plug later to an L-plug and try using this as my daily beater.


 RX-1 is really decent given it's sq,package and build quality. Try it with something like chill or ambient. Truly charming.


----------



## purplesun

fonkepala said:


> Loving my Ty Hi Z 32ohm buds which arrived today. For the price, it came with much better accessories than MP. I especially like the foams, they're quite a bit thicker and durable compared to the thin foams that comes with the MP. The ear fins also work a treat. As for the sound, I find it to be very good, spacious and airy. They're not suitable for noisy commutes however, as with most buds the isolation is lacking. But perhaps I need more listening time and burn in time before coming to a conclusion. For now I'm enjoying listening to them.


 

 If you like them now, you will be blown away after a few days of use. Just make sure you love strong bass (and most people do) and wide frequency extension


----------



## AkashS04

Is Qian 39 more warmer, bassier and detailed and very smoother than Monk+? Anyone has experienced both of them?


----------



## JASru

ira delphic said:


> Did you get shipping notification/tracking number?


Yep. But it doesn't mean it is shipped. It just means that the number is assigned to this package. Back at work I have a load of empty forms with track number. I fill them in, give them to a courier and only then parcel starts moving.


----------



## purplesun

jasru said:


> RX-1 is really decent given it's sq,package and build quality. Try it with something like chill or ambient. Truly charming.


 
  
 IMO, it's not for everyone. Even for my strong-bass avoiding ears, I can tell that the bass is not all there. OTOH, I fell asleep wearing RX-1 (I was tired) and woke up to some gorgeous female vocals. Had to quickly check the room that I did not leave my sound system running until I realised there is no sound system in this room


----------



## boblauer

jasru said:


> Returning to the topic: are there any Paiaudio PR1 owners? It is pretty low on the round-up, but I wanted to know why?))


 
 Sorry for late reply, sitting in an airport, I own one. I find them a bit veiled with respect to overall sound and a little bass light. They are by no means bad just there's others for same or less money just as good or a bit better. I use them every so often outdoors, the cable is nice. I'd go TP16, MP, Hi-z 32 before these IMO.


----------



## JASru

purplesun said:


> IMO, it's not for everyone. Even for my strong-bass avoiding ears, I can tell that the bass is not all there. OTOH, I fell asleep wearing RX-1 (I was tired) and woke up to some gorgeous female vocals. Had to quickly check the room that I did not leave my sound system running until I realised there is no sound system in this room


 I agree that it isn't an all-rounder. But it sutely is worth buying given the price. And as I told, it is cool with light genres(ambient, chill, country, soul etc), while completely inaccurate in instrumental heavy, overlapping ones (jazz improvisations, celtic rock, bluegrass and so on).


----------



## JASru

boblauer said:


> Sorry for late reply, sitting in an airport, sitting in an airport, I own one. I find them a bit veiled with respect to overall sound and a little bass light. They are by no means bad just there's others for same or less money just as good or a bit better. I use them every so often outdoors, the cable is nice. I'd go TP16, MP, Hi-z 32 before these IMO.


 Had Monk+. Have TP16. TY is still in transit. 
Then I skip the Pai station 
Thanks for finding time to answer, wish you a pleasant flight)


----------



## batonchik03

kinetic758 said:


> Out of curiosity, "old school" as in 90's hip hop or more 80's?
> 
> I'd recommend Monk+ and, if you can spring more, the Ostry KC08.
> 
> By the way, the new De La Soul album is great if haven't heard it yet (and mastered with quite a big low end bump).



Haven't heard de la soul new album yet) will do) i listen mostly 90s, fan of old school samplers sound: zoom st224, akai s20, emax, sp1200 , mpc200. There are a lot new producers beatmakers using those old gems. I am not sticked to particular names . For example emu sp1200 is really damn expensive and rare. So if guy purchased it - it really low possibility that he will make really bad vibes) from well known I can state that I like Lewis Parker beats


----------



## boblauer

jasru said:


> I agree that it isn't an all-rounder. But it sutely is worth buying given the price. And as I told, it is cool with light genres(ambient, chill, country, soul etc), while completely inaccurate in instrumental heavy, overlapping ones (jazz improvisations, celtic rock, bluegrass and so on).


 
 I'm listening with them right now with them, Albert King and SRV amped and they work well except the bass is not prominent but the guitars of both those great departed blues men is so velvety nice, just needs a bit of a punch with the bass and drums, nothing a little EQ can't help.


----------



## Danneq

purplesun said:


> IMO, it's not for everyone. Even for my strong-bass avoiding ears, I can tell that the bass is not all there. OTOH, I fell asleep wearing RX-1 (I was tired) and woke up to some gorgeous female vocals. Had to quickly check the room that I did not leave my sound system running until I realised there is no sound system in this room




I used the silicon rings that I got with the Monk+ ex pack to give the RX-1 better fit in my ears. That also gave them more bass. However, as a lover of wide and open soundstage I felt that the RX-1 was just too intimate sounding and sold both my pairs. Sometimes you buy into the hype too soon, but I'm still glad I got a chance to try them. Because sometimes you just have got to take a chance instead of asking for other peoples opinions again and again...


----------



## vapman

batonchik03 said:


> Haven't heard de la soul new album yet) will do) i listen mostly 90s, fan of old school samplers sound: zoom st224, akai s20, emax, sp1200 , mpc200. There are a lot new producers beatmakers using those old gems. I am not sticked to particular names . For example emu sp1200 is really damn expensive and rare. So if guy purchased it - it really low possibility that he will make really bad vibes) from well known I can state that I like Lewis Parker beats


 

 You know your stuff man. As a recording synth enthusiast I never see people know about gear on here. I won't take it too much OT - feel free to PM if you wanna nerd out about samplers - I can see my Emax II from where i'm sitting 
  
 Hope you noticed my Qian39 review btw, check out the latest reviews on the side if you didn't check it out


----------



## golov17

purplesun said:


> Just trying out the Auglamour RX-1 after a day's burn, my dainty-bass & midrange loving ears is pretty much having a teenage crush on these earbuds. Treble's a tiny bit prickly but, after 4in1, it's nothing I can't handle. This must be an infuriating earphones for bassheads though, all that wonderful midrange slam (is there such a thing?) yet so little bass. This has to be the best first earbud for long-time IEM users making a transition to earbuds, it almost like there's a Knowles BA inside this RX-1. I think I will change the plug later to an L-plug and try using this as my daily beater.


next step to VX Pro?


----------



## purplesun

golov17 said:


> next step to VX Pro?


 

 Heh, perhaps!
  
 Let's see if **** PT15 burns off my ears with treble first.
 To think, I actually came back to earbuds to get away from IEM's treble sizzle


----------



## Tomasz2D

purplesun said:


> IMO, it's not for everyone. Even for my strong-bass avoiding ears, I can tell that the bass is not all there.




It is supposed to be like this by design. There are so many other earbuds overloaded with bass so let's leave RX-1 the way it is. Because:

"I have to be able to feel the bass. I've worked hard with our producers to make sure that when you play our records on your stereo, you can feel the bass. *You might not necessarily be able to hear it all the time*, but if you turn it up you can feel the movement in the low end—that it's moving the song. And when it's not there, it should be creating a dynamic."

Jeff Ament - Pearl Jam bassist


----------



## Holypal

With Head-fiers, Jim HCK at aliexpress  has limited pre-orders for **** PT15:
 Without cable：$8
 With black、blue、green cable：$14
 With silver cable：$19.9
  
 I ordered one without cable, for $8.


----------



## base08

holypal said:


> With Head-fiers, Jim HCK at aliexpress  has limited pre-orders for **** PT15:
> Without cable：$8
> 
> With black、blue、green cable：$14
> ...




Yes I also had the same message... if true graphene structure... will be good... ordered.


----------



## purplesun

tomasz2d said:


> It is supposed to be like this by design. There are so many other earbuds overloaded with bass so let's leave RX-1 the way it is.:


 
  
 You will like what I received today. A pair of new Cresyn earbuds made circa 2011 (edit: may have been 2006) which is a sound clone of the venerable Sony MDR-E888 from the 1990s. Took me a long time to track these down. The Sony was my favourite earbud then, and also quite bass-deaf (nothing much below 120hz) but untouchable for midranges & highs back in the day. But, after saying that, I fully expect the newer earbuds, esp RX1, to trounce it quite easily. I will probably put up a short comparo few days from now.
  
 EDIT: Sorry, going to receive today. Counting my chicken b4 they are hatched, don't want to jinx it.


----------



## batonchik03

vapman said:


> You know your stuff man. As a recording synth enthusiast I never see people know about gear on here. I won't take it too much OT - feel free to PM if you wanna nerd out about samplers - I can see my Emax II from where i'm sitting
> 
> Hope you noticed my Qian39 review btw, check out the latest reviews on the side if you didn't check it out



Yeh, will try qian39 according to your advice, moreover it is really cheap) glad to hear u are interested in audio gear too. Unfortunately,I have stopped producing vibes few years ago and sold my equipment as I had started to work in financial sector)maybe time goes by and one day I will have resources to make my own little studio filled with rare gear gems)) now I m just a listener looking for a good buds to flow into raw 90s straight out of my suit))


----------



## purplesun

holypal said:


> With Head-fiers, Jim HCK at aliexpress  has limited pre-orders for **** PT15:
> Without cable：$8
> With black、blue、green cable：$14
> With silver cable：$19.9
> ...


 

 Ouch, that hurts! Halved my order price in 1 day. Sigh.


----------



## ultimdan

holypal said:


> With Head-fiers, Jim HCK at aliexpress  has limited pre-orders for **** PT15:
> Without cable：$8
> 
> With black、blue、green cable：$14
> ...




How can I have that price? I'd order right away!


----------



## purplesun

The PT15 has just turned into a Hyperloop rail system.

  
 (Just joking, Mr Musk)


----------



## Holypal

ultimdan said:


> How can I have that price? I'd order right away!


 
 You need to talk to the seller.
  
 Place an order but don't pay. Then send a message to the seller, tell him what you want.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

ultimdan said:


> How can I have that price? I'd order right away!




Order it, put in a message that you are from Head-Fi, don't pay, wait until they change the price.

Edit, I'm seconds too slow!


----------



## Tomasz2D

purplesun said:


> You will like what I received today. A pair of new Cresyn earbuds made circa 2011 (edit: may have been 2006) which is a sound clone of the venerable Sony MDR-E888 from the 1990s. Took me a long time to track these down. The Sony was my favourite earbud then, and also quite bass-deaf (nothing much below 120hz) but untouchable for midranges & highs back in the day. But, after saying that, I fully expect the newer earbuds, esp RX1, to trounce it quite easily. I will probably put up a short comparo few days from now.




Probably yes. Also this new Toneking TKY2 - remindes me of that '80 / '90 earbuds sound.


----------



## purplesun

tomasz2d said:


> Probably yes. Also this new Toneking TKY2 - remindes me of that '80 / '90 earbuds sound.


 
  
 Thanks for the TKY2 tip. @Vapman had been helping me for weeks with suggestions as to which new earbud most closely resemble E888; TKY2 was not on the radar. Although RX1 should be close, it still sounds to clean, a bit too digital compared to what I remember of my E888. I really hope the Cresyn works out for me, so that I can get back to "that old feeling" with my old song collections. Hard to describe it, but I will know it when it hits the spot.


----------



## ld100

holypal said:


> With Head-fiers, Jim HCK at aliexpress  has limited pre-orders for **** PT15:
> Without cable：$8
> 
> With black、blue、green cable：$14
> ...




How to get it at that price?


----------



## vapman

ld100 said:


> How to get it at that price?


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/12300#post_12945590


----------



## ld100

vapman said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/12300#post_12945590




Did you? At that price I will bite.


----------



## ld100

Which seller? I am not sure who is Jim...


----------



## boblauer

Jim is Nice HCK store rep.


----------



## tinkertailor

I just sent that guy an order and I can get it at a good price, I'll also come back and report on my findings. I'm a very strong yuin fan right now, can't wait to see how these hold up. Good job to those here who tracked and found out about this.


----------



## Ira Delphic

purplesun said:


> holypal said:
> 
> 
> > With Head-fiers, Jim HCK at aliexpress  has limited pre-orders for **** PT15:
> ...




Some of us got a "special" price of $29 for the version with black cable.


----------



## purplesun

Just got my Hidizs AP60, and I think I may have figured out something with Monk Plus.
  
 The sources that I had used MP on were: Fiio E10k, Galaxy Alpha & Galaxy S (voodoo-enabled kernel). The warmth/veil sounded too distracting on the MP, so I did not use the MP much. Other than burn-in over 200 hours and occasionally used it to compare with other things.
  
 But with AP60, the veil lifted somewhat and the warmth felt almost right to me (still a tad too rich). But definitely more listenable than with my other sources.
  
 My best guess at what is happening is: AP60 is a leaner-sounding DAP than my other sources (eg: trebly on RX-1). I have always had a preference for a sound bordering between tube/solid-state systems, so my current sources would have likely reflected this bias. So, I think Monk Plus must have been tuned more for recently-made DAPs which, I think, is probably leaner sounding than my old sources. At least now, I can put the MP on my listening rotation with the AP60.
  
 -----------------
 Specific to @Akash, if my experiences above is correct, Monk Plus would be very well paired with the leaner new Nanos than the older Nanos. You should be happier with the leaner-sounding Nano using the Monk Plus. I think that was the answer you had been looking for, for weeks. Sadly, I don't have many earbuds, so I can't help you with most of the other queries you posed recently.


----------



## purplesun

ira delphic said:


> Some of us got a "special" price of $29 for the version with black cable.


 

 At $8, graphene-coated is sounding more likely now than electrostatically-driven pure graphene membrane.
  
 Still, Senfers have been OK in my books for IEMs, I hope they do a good job tuning this PT15, whatever the diaphragm material.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I prefer the Cirrus Logic chip of AK70 over Wolfson chip of AK Jr tbh


----------



## Saoshyant

HCK sent me the same message, so I'll be cancelling my order so I can get the discounted price.


----------



## purplesun

tayyab pirzada said:


> I prefer the Cirrus Logic chip of AK70 over Wolfson chip of AK Jr tbh


 

 Amping matters as well, within the same DAC subsystems, but I know what you mean. Some like coffee & some like tea.


----------



## JASru

Well, some of us overpaid 15 bucks, huh?) 
Not a big deal anyway, but a reminder do be patient. Ouch: )


----------



## purplesun

jasru said:


> Well, some of us overpaid 15 bucks, huh?)
> Not a big deal anyway, but a reminder do be patient. Ouch: )


 
  
 Looks like we were first away-team scouting party & wearing red shirts.


----------



## ld100

Just for kicks I did a brief compare of the sound from iPhone 6S vs DFB vs Wolfston Dac from integrated amp with Monk Plus.
  
 As expected from iPhone the sound is just ok. Bright and lifeless. Thin and unnatural. I can listen to it, but certainly not my preferred choice. It is way better that stock iPhone buds. Original iPhone buds, but nothing to write home about. 
  
 DFB makes is all much more interesting. Monk Plus comes to life and shines. I will not go into detail as I am not an expert at describing sound. Short it is nice and Monk Plus sounds very decent, BUT still leaves me wishing for more in term of clarity and depth. It is a $5 dollar earbud after all.
  
 My Wolfson Dac in the the nice British integrated amp. This is the first time I actually plugged headphones into it. Any headphones. Monk Plus suddenly sounds very different. It is full bodied and detailed even comparing to DFB. I have to say it even sounds somewhat as full size headphones. I was really surprised by the sound and what a $5 dollar earbud can do provided proper amplification and DAC execution. WOW! Seriously. I been somewhat disappointed in Monk Plus comparing it to other buds, but wow. It is a capable little guy for $5. Now I need a long headphone extension cable. This is whole other ball game. And the bass by the way is superb.
  
 So to make the long story short @*AkashS04 *I think Monk Plus would be a great earbud to start. With or without a microphone you can't go wrong for the price. But to make it shine you need a good source and iPod Mini will not do that. That's my opinion. I think it is not even about the DAC chip, but more about its implementation and amplification. If you want to get great sound you need to look for a proper source to drive your headphones. Just my $.02...


----------



## Frederick Wang

jasru said:


> Well, some of us overpaid 15 bucks, huh?)
> Not a big deal anyway, but a reminder do be patient. Ouch: )


 
 I paid a little bit less than 30 USD on taobao for them...


----------



## SuperLuigi

Are the different wire's on the pt15 just different build quality?  Any recommendations for wires?


----------



## ultimdan

I bought the dt2 plus and the pt15 and asked for a head-fi rebate. He quoted me 50 usd for the two. Do you think it's a good price?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Thanks to @Holypal, I ordered the* **** PT15 *(No Cables) for $8.  Killer deal.  I am lucky that I have some nice MMCX cables laying around already to use.
  
 Really looking forward to checking them out when they arrive.
  
 --


----------



## Saoshyant

Ok, ordered the price adjusted PT15, and hoping I like it.  But for $20 with a silver cable, it's no huge loss if I don't like the sound as I can use the cable elsewhere.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

ld100 said:


> Yes in theory. But in reality what we are talking about here is just lunacy. RESPECTFULLY to all parties involved!
> 
> We are talking about seeking out first gen ipod released in 2001 wth DAC cheap from 2001 and then pairing it with Apple earbuds for great sound... Shoot me now, please!!! This is not analog technology that does not really change. This is a very cheap dac chip from almost two decades ago. Good back in a day. Maybe great back in a day. The key here is back in a day. 16 years... I am willing to bet that a current cheap(!)  Fiio 50-100$ player has a much better DAC cheap and with Monk Plus will absolutely destroy ipod with apple buds... If it was me that is what I would do. Get a current player with a good DAC cheap and start from MP and like... And then figure out which other buds to try as most of us here do... Continue on going ipod classic road does sound as trolling to me. Unintentional trolling maybe if there is such thing... I don't want to offend the inquiring party, but he seems to ignore opinion of people who want to help him.
> 
> On a side note my integrated amp has a Wolfson DAC. I will out of curiosity connect my MP to it today and see if there is much difference between Wolfson and my other dac and basic iphone. I been wanting to do that for a while, but never got to it. Interesting how Wolfson DAC from 2015 will compare... But again this is a 2015 hi end Wolfson DAC and not 2001...


 
 Yes mate I fully agree, maybe I did not word my statement correctly or I have misunderstood something. I never mentioned a 1st gen Ipod is better than 7th gen, hell I never owned any apple devices before mate. I was just generalizing my statement.

 Sorry for the misunderstanding.


----------



## AkashS04

I will buy Monk+ in this case. And also planning to buy iPod nano 1st Gen from Ebay. Any other Portable player with same Chip and cheaper price and lightweight and small?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

purplesun said:


> You will like what I received today. A pair of new Cresyn earbuds made circa 2011 (edit: may have been 2006) which is a sound clone of the venerable Sony MDR-E888 from the 1990s. Took me a long time to track these down. The Sony was my favourite earbud then, and also quite bass-deaf (nothing much below 120hz) but untouchable for midranges & highs back in the day. But, after saying that, I fully expect the newer earbuds, esp RX1, to trounce it quite easily. I will probably put up a short comparo few days from now.


 
 Do you have a picture of the Cresyn earbuds which you have mentioned? I may try to find them on Taobao hahaha


----------



## purplesun

audionewbi3 said:


> Do you have a picture of the Cresyn earbuds which you have mentioned? I may try to find them on Taobao hahaha




Cresyn lmx-e700 or lmx-e700r1. Got it from taobao. There's a newer model made in 2011 which is still in cresyn's product range. Let me know if you can't find it on taobao and I pm you the link.

If you have heard e888 before and liked it, you should be fine with the cresyn. If not, you will hate it in comparison to most earbuds now. 3 day burn-in is required, iirc.


----------



## golov17

J-cable with ext, btw


----------



## purplesun

golov17 said:


> J-cable with ext, btw


 
  
 You have good taste, my Russian friend!


----------



## cingcut

holypal said:


> With Head-fiers, Jim HCK at aliexpress  has limited pre-orders for **** PT15:
> Without cable：$8
> 
> With black、blue、green cable：$14
> ...




for $8 no brainer. thanks Holypal


----------



## golov17

Oops


----------



## luedriver

I also got the message from Jim from NiceHCK​, the cheapskate in me is really tempted by the discount, but I don't really like bright sounding earbuds...
  
 some here joke that the other earbuds they make have made them used to ultrasonic sounds, so I am more wary than usual about these, also just ordered the hp650 and got some candy as well, I don't need another earbud, so I have mixed feelings about a special earbud made with an exotic material, that is on sale, but might sound really really bright
  
 of those who ordered, what are you expecting it to sound, just by instinct, or intuition?


----------



## ld100

luedriver said:


> I also got the message from Jim from NiceHCK​, the cheapskate in me is really tempted by the discount, but I don't really like bright sounding earbuds...
> 
> some here joke that the other earbuds they make have made them used to ultrasonic sounds, so I am more wary than usual about these, also just ordered the hp650 and got some candy as well, I don't need another earbud, so I have mixed feelings about a special earbud made with an exotic material, that is on sale, but might sound really really bright
> 
> of those who ordered, what are you expecting it to sound, just by instinct, or intuition?


 
  
 For that price I jumped because with some negative review there is so many positive for their 4in1... So there is a chance that earbuds will be very good... (Or very bad)... For under 15 I am willing to take a chance.


----------



## Raketen

I wonder if JVC will make something with it, the've made a couple diff drivers with nanotube diaphragms...


----------



## JASru

How are Cresyn earbuds? What is their sound signature?
 Never heard of this brand.


----------



## vapman

jasru said:


>


 

 Supposedly very much like the 90's high end Sony, such as E888. I have not heard for myself, though...
  
  
@golov17 what DAP you using man?


----------



## JASru

vapman said:


> Supposedly very much like the 90's high end Sony, such as E888. I have not heard for myself, though...
> 
> 
> @golov17 what DAP you using man?


 
 Never heard the high end Sony. The only high end I heard ever in my life were old soviet isophones and Technics overears =/
 I am way too young 
  
 The dap is Newsmy G1, which is almost identical to Colorfly C3.


----------



## purplesun

jasru said:


> How are Cresyn earbuds? What is their sound signature?
> Never heard of this brand.


 
  
 Not sure. I think they are or were mostly sold in South Korea & parts of East Asia.
 Didn't know anything about them until I dug up info on that 1 particular model that I was interested in.
 I don't think they have anything that can run close to the models from newer earbud companies we have now.
 IMO, the sound quality of earbuds have take a big step forward this year and last year.


----------



## vapman

Do you have it yet @purplesun? I thought you had gotten it already


----------



## ballog

Messaged Penonaudio on Aliexpress this morning about the Shozy BK. They just replied that they have it at $149. Too expensive for me so I'll have to hold off for my search for a higher-end earbud (might buy the TY Hi-Z 320 or 650 instead).
  
 P.S - Do you think Penon would offer Head-fier discount?


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> Do you have it yet @purplesun? I thought you had gotten it already


 

 Sorry, I corrected my last post from earlier. A few more hours to go. First thing I will do is verify that the DD looks exactly like the E888's driver before I start their burn-in. It's from taobao afterall.


----------



## Danneq

purplesun said:


> Not sure. I think they are or were mostly sold in South Korea & parts of East Asia.
> Didn't know anything about them until I dug up info on that 1 particular model that I was interested in.
> I don't think they have anything that can run close to the models from newer earbud companies we have now.
> IMO, the sound quality of earbuds have take a big step forward this year and last year.


 


 If you are talking about cheap earbuds, yet. TOTL earbuds 5-10 or even 20 years ago were pretty good. Perhaps a bit different than current earbuds, but still great. Those old Sony and Aiwas from the 80's and 90's are still great. But nowadays you can get a $5 earbud that sounds as good as, or better than, a $30-40 earbud 5-10 years ago...


----------



## music4mhell

ballog said:


> Messaged Penonaudio on Aliexpress this morning about the Shozy BK. They just replied that they have it at $149. Too expensive for me so I'll have to hold off for my search for a higher-end earbud (might buy the TY Hi-Z 320 or 650 instead).
> 
> P.S - Do you think Penon would offer Head-fier discount?


 
 yes they will give discount, just be bold and ask them.. I have got many products from them with high discounts in past.


----------



## Fabi

luedriver said:


> I also got the message from Jim from NiceHCK​, the cheapskate in me is really tempted by the discount, but I don't really like bright sounding earbuds...
> 
> some here joke that the other earbuds they make have made them used to ultrasonic sounds, so I am more wary than usual about these, also just ordered the hp650 and got some candy as well, I don't need another earbud, so I have mixed feelings about a special earbud made with an exotic material, that is on sale, but might sound really really bright
> 
> of those who ordered, what are you expecting it to sound, just by instinct, or intuition?


Same worry as you on the maybe rather bright sound sig. Didn't pull the trigger on this ****.


----------



## ballog

I got a discounted price ($153) for an Xduoo XD-05 on Aliexpress. Do you guys think its a good pairing for earbuds (Monk, Monk Plus, RX1,etc and soon some high impedance earbud)? Would it better than the iBasso DX50?


----------



## Hampa

im having a heard time finding any earbud "hook" things to make my buds not fall out, can't get the search term on aliexpress  right. anyone got any pointers?


----------



## vapman

hampa said:


> im having a heard time finding any earbud "hook" things to make my buds not fall out, can't get the search term on aliexpress  right. anyone got any pointers?


 
 You mean the Earhoox lookalikes?
  
 I have so so so many from buying different buds and never use them. If you send me your address in a private message I'll send you a couple sets in a stamped envelope. completely free. all would still be in the baggies they came in, never used...
  
 (offer is only valid if you're in the USA too, my apologies if not)


----------



## Hampa

vapman said:


> You mean the Earhoox lookalikes?
> 
> I have so so so many from buying different buds and never use them. If you send me your address in a private message I'll send you a couple sets in a stamped envelope. completely free. all would still be in the baggies they came in, never used...
> 
> (offer is only valid if you're in the USA too, my apologies if not)


 
 yeah something like that, thanks for the offer but im in Sweden.
 im pretty sure i've seen em on ali but i just blanked out hehehe.


----------



## music4mhell

hampa said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > You mean the Earhoox lookalikes?
> ...


 
 Buy a Monk+ expansion apck, you will get it free.


----------



## Hampa

music4mhell said:


> Buy a Monk+ expansion apck, you will get it free.


 
 hmm gdamn! thats where i saw em!


----------



## music4mhell

hampa said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Buy a Monk+ expansion apck, you will get it free.
> ...


 
 Ok now don't thank me


----------



## Hampa

music4mhell said:


> Ok now don't thank me


 
 haha, fun part, more packages in the mail


----------



## Holypal

I contacted the ****'s own store on taobao, asked some questions about the PT15 drivers.
  
 The one who answered me claims the whole vibration diaphragm is made of Graphene, and the thickness is 0.002 mm (2 micrometer). **** will release more earphones with this driver in the future. The guy said this technology is new. The big brands may also release graphene driver headphones next year. 
  
 I want to believe it's true. That's means entire new material for the diaphragm of headphones. We can have more choices.
  
 Only time will tell.


----------



## fairx

holypal said:


> I contact the ****'s own store on taobao, asked some questions about the PT15 drivers.
> 
> The one who answered me claims the whole vibration diaphragm is made of Graphene, and the thickness is 0.002 mm (2 micrometer). **** will release more earphones with this driver in the future. The guy said this technology is new. The big brands may also release graphene driver headphones next year.
> 
> ...




I will patiently waits for impression. Hmmm...


----------



## music4mhell

I bought the Shozy BK from penon now 
 Gosh... i hate this hobby now ..


----------



## kurtextrem

music4mhell said:


> I bought the Shozy BK from penon now
> Gosh... i hate this hobby now ..


 

 Did you get a discount?


----------



## music4mhell

kurtextrem said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I bought the Shozy BK from penon now
> ...


 
 No  i bought it at $149..


----------



## the diode

I didnt see the Shozy BK on the website..... do you have to contact them to get them??


----------



## music4mhell

the diode said:


> I didnt see the Shozy BK on the website..... do you have to contact them to get them??


 
 I bought from Penon..
 Yes just msg them or mail them..
 I bought one Fidue model which was same $149 price. They will send Shozy Black in place of that.. simple


----------



## JASru

Anyone asked vendors on Ali for K's unbalanced version? Is it available?


----------



## music4mhell

jasru said:


> Anyone asked vendors on Ali for K's unbalanced version? Is it available?


 
 Ohh no, i have already ordered, i don't whether is is balanced or unbalanced 
 From the pic it seems unbalanced for sure.


----------



## JASru

music4mhell said:


> Ohh no, i have already ordered, i don't whether is is balanced or unbalanced
> From the pic it seems unbalanced for sure.


 
 Don't wanna make you worry but trusting pictures on Ali is a risky tactic.

 So do anyone know about not balanced version?


----------



## music4mhell

jasru said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Ohh no, i have already ordered, i don't whether is is balanced or unbalanced
> ...


 
 To be safe side, i will buy a connector from VE then with Monk+


----------



## Nachash

I swear, the Tp16 is the last earbud that I'll buy before the VX Pro


----------



## Expansion

Philips SHE3800 vs Cygnus/Zen? Can someone compare their sound signatures?


----------



## music4mhell

nachash said:


> I swear, the Tp16 is the last earbud that I'll buy before the VX Pro


 
 And how long this swear will last ?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Very close to getting Shozy BK any day now


----------



## vapman

I just bought two more Qian39. I am stocking up before everyone else realizes they're too good for the price 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 probably recable two and leave the one i have stock.
 it's  an easy winner on the "fun" aspect... and great buttery smooth mids/treble.
 any Blox lineage in this design?


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> I just bought two more Qian39. I am stocking up before everyone else realizes they're too good for the price
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hoarder!!!


----------



## Nachash

vapman said:


> I just bought two more Qian39. I am stocking up before everyone else realizes they're too good for the price
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 too bad that I will not receive the tin box like you, I used another seller and he's using one of those cheap $.50 iem cases


----------



## ld100

vapman said:


> I just bought two more Qian39. I am stocking up before everyone else realizes they're too good for the price
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ordered one yesterday...


----------



## purplesun

These just came (Cresyn LMX-E700):

  
 Close-up:

  
 The solder contacts are on the edge of the driver. Just like on the Sony E888 drivers & not very common on other drivers.
 Looks legit enough for now, I will put 1 on the burn-in machine and see how it sounds like in 1 or 2 days time.
  
  
 At 40 hours:
 Using donut foams. Fiio E10k & Hidizs AP10 sources. Mostly '90s CD-rips (160k AAC).
 Surprisingly tight & strong bass; down to kick-drums it remains quite decent. An attention-grabbing midrange. And a surprisingly strong treble performance, but still splashy for now (I hope it settles with further playing). A warmth (more delicate than Monk Plus') permeates its overall presentation
  
 IMHO, it's like a Monk Plus with less stage depth and more exciting (from the stronger mids). Or like a Auglamour RX1 in mids & highs but less clarity, and with more warmth & colouration. In terms of FR extensions, both newer earbuds are wider than Cresyn. Lastly, the openness & air on this earbud is more akin to an open-back headphones - meaning it feels more like the performance is taking place in the room, more so than Monk Plus or RX1.
  
 At 60 hours:
 "Hello, my old friend. Nice to hear from you again".
  
 The treble is getting more full-bodied now. The Cresyn sound has now moved away from Monk Plus and more towards the RX-1. It's a leaner sound than RX-1. With RX-1 having more dominant timbre in the lower mid/upper bass. The RX-1 has a darker presentation, while the Cresyn feels lighter & more nimble.
  
 For faster performances, both earbuds can belt it out quite impressively. But the Cresyn, with stronger mids, performs with more energy & urgency than the RX-1. Cresyn is proper party animal in this respect.
  
 For slower and more intimate performances (Full disclosure: I am highly partial to this side of my old E888's abilities), the RX-1 can sit this one out. Cresyn's gorgeous warmth, natural air & colouration takes it to a whole different level. Whereas, by comparison, RX-1 has a flatness to it's performances. It's still a very competent performer, but not as special as the Cresyn.
  
 Conclusion: For the special purpose of of re-capturing the sounds of the CD era of '80s & '90s where FR-limited, thin and compressed mixes were common, the Cresyn would be my go-to earbuds to spice up performances. But, for modern mixes, I feel safer with the RX-1, being able to handle newer productions better. While still having the Cresyn around to spice up weak-engineered mixes.
  
 Note: Set DAP to 16 bit-depth for 16-bit recordings. Or else, at higher bit-depth settings, soft & loud portions of a song gets exaggerated on the Cresyn.


----------



## the diode

music4mhell said:


> I bought from Penon..
> Yes just msg them or mail them..
> I bought one Fidue model which was same $149 price. They will send Shozy Black in place of that.. simple


 

 Thank you very much, I will be contacting them soon.


----------



## mochill

golov17 said:


> J-cable with ext, btw


How much and where


----------



## mochill

tayyab pirzada said:


> Very close to getting Shozy BK any day now


wait for Shozy stardust


----------



## mochill

I got the **** pt15 with silver cable for 17 dollar, pm me to know where


----------



## the diode

Shozy Stardust?? That sounds interesting.


----------



## boblauer

@vapman @BloodyPenguin
  
 Got my Green Tings yesterday, listened briefly before burning them in and there's some decent bass for you Vapman. Fit well, usues stock donuts they came with. Letting them burn for @50 hours and will use them this weekend when travelling. 
  
 Thanks for the find BP!


----------



## luckyeights

mochill said:


> wait for Shozy stardust


 
 Shozy Stardust what is this mythical earbud, and do you have a link to information on it some where?


----------



## kvad

luckyeights said:


> Shozy Stardust what is this mythical earbud, and do you have a link to information on it some where?


 

 ​The Stardust is the same as the Shozy BK. There's a tiny bit of info on their facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/shozyofficial/


----------



## luckyeights

kvad said:


> ​The Stardust is the same as the Shozy BK. There's a tiny bit of info on their facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/shozyofficial/


 
 Ok so stardust is its official release name then Bk was its test name/version.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

boblauer said:


> @vapman @BloodyPenguin
> 
> Got my Green Tings yesterday, listened briefly before burning them in and there's some decent bass for you Vapman. Fit well, usues stock donuts they came with. Letting them burn for @50 hours and will use them this weekend when travelling.
> 
> Thanks for the find BP!


 
  
 Yeah, that is what I thought too.  Decent bass with the Green Ting.  I did not notice it at first, but for me it grew deep after some burn in.  It is one of my main earbuds I use in my rotation now.
  
 --


----------



## To.M

Ok, I couldn't resist the temptation and just ordered PT15...  it will be my 4th pair of earbuds, I am still a beginner-level collector here, so I feel only slight remorse


----------



## ballog

to.m said:


> Ok, I couldn't resist the temptation and just ordered PT15...  it will be my 4th pair of earbuds, I am still a beginner-level collector here, so I feel only slight remorse



What do you guys think the sound signature of the PT15 will be?


----------



## Danneq

ballog said:


> What do you guys think the sound signature of the PT15 will be?


----------



## luckyeights

danneq said:


>


 
  
 That sends shivers down my spine....  I certainly hope it does not have that sound.


----------



## Danneq

That's actually how Tingo TG-38 sounded like to my ears. Hisoundaudio Living was also close to that sort of treble...


----------



## ballog

danneq said:


> That's actually how Tingo TG-38 sounded like to my ears. Hisoundaudio Living was also close to that sort of treble...



Man! You do have a clear cut opinion of the PT15. Certainly not my cup of tea - just cancelled my order (saving funds for some stardust maybe).


----------



## Danneq

Haha!
  
 Sorry, I was just joking. I have no idea how it sounds like and I have just ordered a pair of PT15 myself. It would be terrible though if it sounds like that but I think it will sound much more balanced than Tingo TG-38 or Hisoundaudio Living...

 I should have inserted a big 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 in my previous post as it was just a joke...


----------



## mochill

stardust is an upgrade over bk as told by my friend


----------



## music4mhell

mochill said:


> stardust is an upgrade over bk as told by my friend


ohh i just ordered Bk from penon


----------



## mochill

Nice bro


----------



## Ira Delphic

ballog said:


> to.m said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, I couldn't resist the temptation and just ordered PT15...  it will be my 4th pair of earbuds, I am still a beginner-level collector here, so I feel only slight remorse
> ...




Bright sounding. Emphasis on mids and highs with V signature. I expect a fun sound not neutral. In the same league as MP and similar budget earbuds, but different. 

When the price looked to be $59 it was possible it would incorporate a graphene electrostatic driver (I know I'm gullible) but at this price (less than $30) I expect a nice consumer friendly earbud. I don't expect this to be a "giant killer" and be competition for the Shozy BK lol.


----------



## kvad

mochill said:


> stardust is an upgrade over bk as told by my friend


 

 ​Are you sure? Quote from Shozys Facebook page:
_"Coming soon, Shozy Stardust (aka Shozy BK) earbud with enhanced parts and a stunning multi strand 8 braid occ cable."_
_​_​I suppose it could be that BK was the prototype, and the final version - Stardust, has improved on it?


----------



## ballog

danneq said:


> Haha!
> 
> Sorry, I was just joking. I have no idea how it sounds like and I have just ordered a pair of PT15 myself. It would be terrible though if it sounds like that but I think it will sound much more balanced than Tingo TG-38 or Hisoundaudio Living...
> 
> ...



Got too many earbuds anyway. Just ordered the Qian39 yesterday. I was already in doubt over the PT15 and didnt want to repeat my purchase of the Tomahawk which I gave away after I got the RX1. Like I said I'm starting to save funds for some higher end bud (my first one).


----------



## Ira Delphic

ballog said:


> danneq said:
> 
> 
> > Haha!
> ...


 
  
 It's all about quality or quantity, BUT some low cost earbuds might be good enough!


----------



## fairx

Guys. I found out that my ty 320 is best with VE porous foam. Where can I source same material foam aside from VE? I still have another pack but just want to be safe. And another colors option would be nice too. 

I just ordered a hole puncher as of clieos recommendation to mod the normal foam bit I think ve foam are the safest bet. 

I look dozens of aliexpress listing but the pic doesn't look convincing.


----------



## Willber

> Got too many earbuds anyway. Just ordered the Qian39 yesterday. I was already in doubt over the PT15 and didnt want to repeat my purchase of the Tomahawk which I gave away after I got the RX1. Like I said I'm starting to save funds for some higher end bud (my first one).


 
  
 Just ordered the Qian39 as well.
  
 If you like the RX-1 you should try the 1more EO320 - it's like the RX-1 with cohones!


----------



## Holypal

ballog said:


> Got too many earbuds anyway. Just ordered the Qian39 yesterday. I was already in doubt over the PT15 and didnt want to repeat my purchase of the Tomahawk which I gave away after I got the RX1. Like I said I'm starting to save funds for some higher end bud (my first one).


 
  
 Well, it might be the first Graphene driver earbud, and it's just 8 bucks. Plus it uses detachable cable and metal housing! I guess its build like tank.


----------



## Willber

willber said:


> > Got too many earbuds anyway. Just ordered the Qian39 yesterday. I was already in doubt over the PT15 and didnt want to repeat my purchase of the Tomahawk which I gave away after I got the RX1. Like I said I'm starting to save funds for some higher end bud (my first one).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

@ballog "I love the RX1 but i just wish it had more bass."
  
 Give the EO320 a try, the bass is excellent. But I wish @haiku would report back his views, he seems to know more about these things than me and I don't know of anyone else on here who has them.


----------



## Fabi

fairx said:


> Guys. I found out that my ty 320 is best with VE porous foam. Where can I source same material foam aside from VE? I still have another pack but just want to be safe. And another colors option would be nice too.
> 
> I just ordered a hole puncher as of clieos recommendation to mod the normal foam bit I think ve foam are the safest bet.
> 
> I look dozens of aliexpress listing but the pic doesn't look convincing.


 
 I also use ty 400s with VE thin foams 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 But ty 32 2.0 with thick foams + 3-4 holes
 Bought some VE basic IC + Ex pack


----------



## SuperLuigi

Gonna be ordering the **** pt15 as well as the Qian39 based on @vapman reviews   Though I am confliced, I've read the bass is weak on the Qian39, but the review says the bass is great. I'm looking for Monks with a bit more bass for gaming.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

danneq said:


> Haha!
> 
> Sorry, I was just joking. I have no idea how it sounds like and I have just ordered a pair of PT15 myself. It would be terrible though if it sounds like that but I think it will sound much more balanced than Tingo TG-38 or Hisoundaudio Living...
> 
> ...


 
  
  Tingo TG-38
  
--


----------



## purplesun

ballog said:


> What do you guys think the sound signature of the PT15 will be?


 
 I have both their most popular IEMs.
 If it's tuned like their DT2 IEM, it will have quite balanced FR but not very extended. With reasonable staging and warmth (for IEMs).
 If it's tuned like their 4in1 IEM, it will have good sub-bass extension and ridiculous upper treble extension. Very lean presentation with addictive micro-detailing.
 Both IEMs take very well to being EQed.
  
 For PT15, as long as the tuner avoids the hot upper treble of 4in1, I think there's a reasonable chance of a good earbud sound.


----------



## jant71

superluigi said:


> Gonna be ordering the **** pt15 as well as the Qian39 based on @vapman reviews   Though I am confliced, I've read the bass is weak on the Qian39, but the review says the bass is great. I'm looking for Monks with a bit more bass for gaming.


 
 Plenty of buds have great bass but not enough or weak that needs amping to bring out. Amount and quality need not coincide.
 If the PT15 has a bit more bass than the original monk that would be great 
  


willber said:


> @ballog "I love the RX1 but i just wish it had more bass."
> 
> Give the EO320 a try, the bass is excellent. But I wish @haiku would report back his views, he seems to know more about these things than me and I don't know of anyone else on here who has them.


 
 Those never took off and I saw a couple of meh/ near negative impressions early. If they are an RX-1 with balls then I don't know what happened. In that case they should be popular and recommended often around here.


----------



## mochill

kvad said:


> mochill said:
> 
> 
> > stardust is an upgrade over bk as told by my friend
> ...


was told the it was in a different league


----------



## Willber

> Originally Posted by *jant71* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
 They came out last year as the EO303 and, as you say, were criticised for their weak bass. They recently released the EO320 with what they call 'super bass' and they have certainly addressed the issue IMO.
 (Be careful when buying as the EO303 are still sold and they look almost identical. The only physical difference seems to be that the EO320 has three buttons in a line on the volume controller).


----------



## springbay

I thought I was done with low impedance buds. And then I did the Ozkan SHE3800 mod tonight.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/822327/diy-earbuds/30#post_12920128
  
 All of a sudden I found myself ordering another five pairs of SHE3800.
 I'm blown away by what such an easily performed mod can do to a $3 bud.


----------



## vapman

Damn, I still haven't ordered the 3800 yet, but I'm gonna do the mod to one of my Qian39's and wait for someone to get both and compare them...


----------



## SuperLuigi

vapman said:


> Damn, I still haven't ordered the 3800 yet, but I'm gonna do the mod to one of my Qian39's and wait for someone to get both and compare them...




What sort of mod are you doing? I just bought them today.


----------



## springbay

Yup I'm tempted to try the mod on all the mx 500 buds that I don't like: T-Music, FAAEAL 64, FAAEAL 300 and MusicMaker TP16.
 The mod is reversible so I don't see any danger in trying it.


----------



## luckyeights

Ok so now that I have and listened to the ty650 a great deal I am wondering if anyone could compare it with the other higher up choices.  I am going to be looking to buy another set of higher end buds when I get back from my vacation.  I would like to know how the ty650 compares to the Shozy BK, K's 500ohm, Zen 2.0, Rose Masya  or any other high end earbuds you might have to compare to the TY650.   I like good bass that does not interfere with the mid range and highs that are not sibilant.  I would consider myself slightly treble sensitive as i defiantly want to avoid headphones that are "treble head".
  
 Thanks


----------



## springbay

luckyeights said:


> [...]  I would like to know how the ty650 compares to the Shozy BK, K's 500ohm, Zen 2.0, Rose Masya  or any other high end earbuds you might have to compare to the TY650. [...]


 
  
 You know only ClieOS can give you an opinion about that.
 In all honesty, I suggest that you give the Ozkan mod on the SHE3800 a try. You'll undoubtedly be surprised what can be accomplished by an absolute budget bud with a simple mod. I'm starting to question why I should pay top dollar for buds when this is so easily achieved.
  
 In regard to your question. The Zen2 will not be worth the money unless you feed it with a top notch amp.


----------



## music4mhell

luckyeights said:


> Ok so now that I have and listened to the ty650 a great deal I am wondering if anyone could compare it with the other higher up choices.  I am going to be looking to buy another set of higher end buds when I get back from my vacation.  I would like to know how the ty650 compares to the Shozy BK, K's 500ohm, Zen 2.0, Rose Masya  or any other high end earbuds you might have to compare to the TY650.   I like good bass that does not interfere with the mid range and highs that are not sibilant.  I would consider myself slightly treble sensitive as i defiantly want to avoid headphones that are "treble head".
> 
> Thanks


 

 I will compare Zen 2, BK, Masya, Mojito, TY650 once I get it delivered...but it will take some days


----------



## vapman

Anyone who messes with DIY or bought recabled earbuds: I know the original monks are a popular recable, but I don't want to do any Monks. Maybe a monk plus, okay.
  
 Anyway I bought 5 KZ brand cables on Ali for $7.11 shipped. pretty good price for known decent quality copper wire, decent thickness, good L plug. Only complaint I can think of it is can be slightly sticky like Boarseman cables.
  
 Going to do a pair of Sony HPM-62 (saw ClieOS put it on only with the "good", but still interested), a Qian39, and maybe a Blox BE5. Not sure what else to do.
  
 I also want to find a nice soft cable to recable my TY 650 with  it sounds great but the cable is so weird feeling to me.


----------



## vapman

springbay said:


> I thought I was done with low impedance buds. And then I did the Ozkan SHE3800 mod tonight.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/822327/diy-earbuds/30#post_12920128
> 
> All of a sudden I found myself ordering another five pairs of SHE3800.
> I'm blown away by what such an easily performed mod can do to a $3 bud.


 

 I forgot to ask, and sorry if you already mentioned it - i went back over the last few pages before asking but i might have missed something - did you do foam or bluetac/sorbothane? I was thinking of getting sorbothane but not sure what kind of if i should get something else.


----------



## HairyHeadMara

Can anyone who already received k's 500 Earbuds please confirm if this buds come with balanced 2.5Mm jack or single end 3.5Mm? Thanks


----------



## ClieOS

hairyheadmara said:


> Can anyone who already received k's 500 Earbuds please confirm if this buds come with balanced 2.5Mm jack or single end 3.5Mm? Thanks


 
  
 K's 500ohm with 2.5mm TRSS balanced plug needs to be special ordered from K's (*which as far as I know, they are not taking any balanced order atm). You are only going to get the single-ended 3.5mm version if you have not specified.


----------



## music4mhell

clieos said:


> hairyheadmara said:
> 
> 
> > Can anyone who already received k's 500 Earbuds please confirm if this buds come with balanced 2.5Mm jack or single end 3.5Mm? Thanks
> ...


 

 Now I am relieved , thanks big daddy


----------



## ClieOS

clieos said:


> A warning to anyone interested in Rose Masya - *DO NOT BUY IT FOR NOW.*
> 
> Let just said that the build quality is really questionable.
> 
> p/s: Will be getting a replacement - hopefully what I got is no more than a lemon.


 
  
 I received the replacement pair of Masya and it indeed feel more solid than the previous pair. I won't say it is anywhere tank-like, but it is good enough to retract the warning. However, it is not a pair of earbud that can take much abuse, purely because of its custom printed housing (*like any CIEM, you won't want to drop them). So if you want one, make sure you can take good care of it.


----------



## HairyHeadMara

clieos said:


> K's 500ohm with 2.5mm TRSS balanced plug needs to be special ordered from K's (*which as far as I know, they are not taking any balanced order atm). You are only going to get the single-ended 3.5mm version if you have not specified.




Thanks for clarification ClieOS, might need to wait till they take 2.5Mm version again.


----------



## Brian Coffey

@vapman Quote is from DIY Earbud thread.
  
 Originally Posted by *springbay* 


  
 I did the @ozkan SHE3800 mod tonight. Didn't have any Bluetack at home. Instead used Loctite and some unscientifically measured and roughly cut cotton ball fiber.The result is great. The bass gets tamed and the highs suddenly appear. Better detail and slightly wider sound stage. This compared to the stock ones. Both with Monk plus thin foams.
  
 Makes you wonder why we pay top dollar for some buds, when a mod that the a three year old kid (as well as a middle aged guy with no previous experience) can perform at the sofa table while sipping a glass of wine can make such a difference. Three year old kids should not sip wine tho.
  
 I'm all ready for more bud mods to try out! I should try it out my FAAEALs. I don't enjoy the muffled stock sound on them, but I only have one of each, so I can't compare if I do the mod.


----------



## Holypal

vapman said:


> Anyone who messes with DIY or bought recabled earbuds: I know the original monks are a popular recable, but I don't want to do any Monks. Maybe a monk plus, okay.
> 
> Anyway I bought 5 KZ brand cables on Ali for $7.11 shipped. pretty good price for known decent quality copper wire, decent thickness, good L plug. Only complaint I can think of it is can be slightly sticky like Boarseman cables.
> 
> ...


 
  
 KZ seems don't have MMCX interface cable.


----------



## vapman

holypal said:


> KZ seems don't have MMCX interface cable.




❓❔
They are DIY style.

Were you thinking i was talking about a cable for ****?


----------



## Holypal

vapman said:


> ❓❔
> They are DIY style.
> 
> Were you thinking i was talking about a cable for ****?


 
  
 I see. This DIY cable is very nice.


----------



## vapman

holypal said:


> I see. This DIY cable is very nice.



I hope it is, ill be sure to report back on its quality, i also have enough buds to use all 5 cables on 

That store also sells earbud foams in enormous bags. Like sandwich bags stuffed full.


----------



## luckyeights

music4mhell said:


> I will compare Zen 2, BK, Masya, Mojito, TY650 once I get it delivered...but it will take some days


 
  
 That would be awesome thanks!


----------



## The Dan of Steel

vapman said:


> I hope it is, ill be sure to report back on its quality, i also have enough buds to use all 5 cables on
> 
> That store also sells earbud foams in enormous bags. Like sandwich bags stuffed full.



I ordered those cables a few months back "just in case". I thought I was buying one for $5 but got 3. 2 are the same. They seem the same as the vsonic an16 I have and the blue one is the same as the one on my KZ Microdriver. They all appear to be decent quality. I haven't used them for anything yet though.


----------



## Holypal

the dan of steel said:


> I ordered those cables a few months back "just in case". I thought I was buying one for $5 but got 3. 2 are the same. They seem the same as the vsonic an16 I have and the blue one is the same as the one on my KZ Microdriver. They all appear to be decent quality. I haven't used them for anything yet though.


 
  
 Vsonic AN16 and GR07 use decent wires.


----------



## fairx

brian coffey said:


> @vapman
> Quote is from DIY Earbud thread.
> 
> Originally Posted by *springbay*
> ...


This motivate me enough to order cheapo cable for my she3800. Been stuck somewhere unused because of the J cable kinda short.. The mod seems easy enough. Maybe different amount of cotton will yield different results.


----------



## Ira Delphic

I have some old KZ IEM's with non-mic cable that I'll never use again. The kind that is sticky at first.
  
 Would this be of any benefit to re-purpose?


----------



## ozkan

fairx said:


> This motivate me enough to order cheapo cable for my she3800. Been stuck somewhere unused because of the J cable kinda short.. The mod seems easy enough. Maybe different amount of cotton will yield different results.




Yes, yes and yes  ATH-IM50 cable made significant changes. More clearer presentation across the sound spectrum. Shortly it removed some veil and added clarity to the sound.

Not to mention that SHE3800 uses some kind of cheap and thin cable. You may also swap the Monk's cable to hear the difference since the cable itself is very good quality on the Monk.


----------



## ozkan

vapman said:


> I forgot to ask, and sorry if you already mentioned it - i went back over the last few pages before asking but i might have missed something - did you do foam or bluetac/sorbothane? I was thinking of getting sorbothane but not sure what kind of if i should get something else.




Cotton, BlueTac and a proper cable mate.


----------



## sharkz

I need to update my Philips buds with a better cable, but I just got a pair of those KZ IEMs and I'm not a huge fan of the cable. The jack is very staticy when being moved, even with some cleaning. Just a warning to others, although you may have different results.


----------



## AkashS04

Did anyone try and post any review on BYZ S600 and Vrem Earbuds?


----------



## golov17

akashs04 said:


> Did anyone try and post any review on BYZ S600 and Vrem Earbuds?


BYZ not good, not interesting sound.. I gave them to someone on the same day after received


----------



## AkashS04

Oh. So I shud remove it form my buying list. Vrem? Good with Bass, Warmness and clarity?


----------



## AkashS04

Vrem is only $3.5 so if it is good, then really good deal at cheap price.


----------



## msknight

OK - the TY Hi-Z HP-650 reached me today. Six days from ordering to arrival in the UK, and that includes the weekend.
  
 Currently hooked up to the Little Dot 1+ and listening. Nice and precise in the high and mids, lacking a little power in low-end, (have listened to Pentatonix, RPWL and Disturbed so far) but I'm aware that people who don't believe in burn-in, have said that these need three days of use before settling down. The Earhoox are fitted and work nicely. Time will tell.
  
 Worth the money? The detail in the vocals says that there's a definite chance that these will come out with a thumbs up... but there's a lot of listening to be done yet.


----------



## AkashS04

Do we have Original Apple Earbuds on AliExpress? Not Earpod but Earbuds with Mic and Remote which used to come till iPhone 4S.


----------



## AkashS04

If I order 
Venture Electronics VE MONK Plus earbud earphone (Still 5USD )

Color:
35mm 1click mic, will I get Earbuds with Mic or only Mic Cable?


----------



## Ira Delphic

msknight said:


> OK - the TY Hi-Z HP-650 reached me today. Six days from ordering to arrival in the UK, and that includes the weekend.
> 
> Currently hooked up to the Little Dot 1+ and listening. Nice and precise in the high and mids, lacking a little power in low-end, (have listened to Pentatonix, RPWL and Disturbed so far) but I'm aware that people who don't believe in burn-in, have said that these need three days of use before settling down. The Earhoox are fitted and work nicely. Time will tell.
> 
> Worth the money? The detail in the vocals says that there's a definite chance that these will come out with a thumbs up... but there's a lot of listening to be done yet.


 
  
 Thanks for your update. I'm looking to get my first "better quality" earbud and am leaning toward the HP-650 or Cygnus.
  
 I was also considering - 
  
 MusicMaker TONEKING TKY2
 TY Hi-Z Earbud 320Ohm
 MusicMaker Ting 
  
 Keep us posted on your impressions of the HP-650.


----------



## luckyeights

msknight said:


> OK - the TY Hi-Z HP-650 reached me today. Six days from ordering to arrival in the UK, and that includes the weekend.
> 
> Currently hooked up to the Little Dot 1+ and listening. Nice and precise in the high and mids, lacking a little power in low-end, (have listened to Pentatonix, RPWL and Disturbed so far) but I'm aware that people who don't believe in burn-in, have said that these need three days of use before settling down. The Earhoox are fitted and work nicely. Time will tell.
> 
> Worth the money? The detail in the vocals says that there's a definite chance that these will come out with a thumbs up... but there's a lot of listening to be done yet.


 
 Hmm lacking power in the low end, what earbud are you comparing to?  Remember that lower end earbuds tend to distort bass making it boomy which makes it appear as though there is more bass.  But in reality your getting ground beef with the cheaper buds and a prime rib with all the juicey marbley details with the higher end buds.  Whats also very nice with these 650s is they EQ very well so please boost that BASS up and still get all your prime rib details


----------



## vapman

Yeah msknight - btw many congrats on your TY 650 - i find it to have very very little bass if not eq'd up a bit. Don't be afraid to EQ! You will be really shocked at what it's capable of and youll hear what i mean when you bump it up even a few dB. Let us know if that does it for you


----------



## musicday

Anyone have any experience with Zen V2 black with the Tera Player?
I am looking for the best sounding earbud with this player.


----------



## AkashS04

If I order 
  
 Venture Electronics VE MONK Plus earbud earphone (Still 5USD )
 Color:35mm 1click mic, 
  
 will I get Earbuds with Mic or only Mic Cable? Some confusion here. Did anyone order it with Mic?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Wow shozy stardust...cant wait.

Cygnus is an actual star too. Shozy has creative names.


----------



## msknight

Actually, I'm not comparing them to earbuds... these are basically the first ones I've owned that haven't come free with something  - I'm comparing to headphones - my faves being the Sen HD600, and the Sen HD480 at the office.
  
 I have just been listening to Yul Brynner and Constance Towers, and the soundstage is nice... it was as if I was a child again, watching them on the stage, as I could follow them as they danced around the floor. Apologies, but the closest I can get is this poor video recording - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgVPnWmUqd4
  
 Unfortunately @vapman I don't seem to have much in the way of equalisation options!!! Much of my equipment doesn't even have base/trebble... and I'm not one for EQ'ing... it was your review with the statements, _"Detailing and imaging throughout the frequency spectrum is spot-on, with no frequency bleeds, and an amount of detailing easily surpassing buds"_ .... _"It does truly have a neutral tone. Listening without EQ will give neutral-heads a very positive experience"_ ...that sold me.
  
 But also I recall what Sennheiser said about the issue of burn in ..._ "This argument suggests that over time a user will develop a greater appreciation of the headphones and what they are capable of."_ - https://sennheiserusa.happyfox.com/kb/article/130-what-is-sennheisers-stance-on-burn-in-theory ... so I know that I've got to get used to these ... but the most noticeable thing is a lack of bass punch.... so I'm not really sure where this is going to lead, but I've just got to give the whole thing time.


----------



## AkashS04

Did anyone Order Monk+ with Mic?


----------



## Ira Delphic

msknight said:


> Actually, I'm not comparing them to earbuds... these are basically the first ones I've owned that haven't come free with something  - I'm comparing to headphones - my faves being the Sen HD600, and the Sen HD480 at the office.
> 
> I have just been listening to Yul Brynner and Constance Towers, and the soundstage is nice... it was as if I was a child again, watching them on the stage, as I could follow them as they danced around the floor. Apologies, but the closest I can get is this poor video recording - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgVPnWmUqd4
> 
> ...


 
  
 What DAPs / audio sources are you using?


----------



## msknight

ira delphic said:


> What DAPs / audio sources are you using?


 

 So far, some listening on the AK70 and also the Little Dot 1+ fed by the Head-Fi USB Box-S. The 1+ fitted with Mullard M8681


----------



## AkashS04

I want to ensure that I am not going to waste $$s completely. What I will do of cable without headphone?


----------



## purplesun

@msknight
Yes, give it a couple of days, the TY range of earbuds will play sweeter after a few days. Really looking forward to more of you opinion about hp650. Loving your audition material. More please.


----------



## msknight

Well, as I type, I'm listening to OK Go - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1ZB_rGFyeU
  
 Currently playing on QMMP is...


----------



## msknight

purplesun said:


> @msknight
> Yes, give it a couple of days, the TY range of earbuds will play sweeter after a few days. Really looking forward to more of you opinion about hp650. Loving your audition material. More please.


 
  
 ...and I also enjoy this if I've got the concentration levels... I think it was put together by a fan, and I wish it would be officially done by the BBC orchestra... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YDYbOaLioU


----------



## vapman

msknight said:


> Actually, I'm not comparing them to earbuds... these are basically the first ones I've owned that haven't come free with something  - I'm comparing to headphones - my faves being the Sen HD600, and the Sen HD480 at the office.
> 
> I have just been listening to Yul Brynner and Constance Towers, and the soundstage is nice... it was as if I was a child again, watching them on the stage, as I could follow them as they danced around the floor. Apologies, but the closest I can get is this poor video recording - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgVPnWmUqd4
> 
> ...


 

 No worries if you don't have EQ abilities, some of your players might have it. i think you should be happy with them if you were more interested by my statements on their non-EQ'd sound... however if you find the bass still lacking (which i don't think will change much with physical burn in) i say get some thicker foams like Hiegi brand. are you using the foams it came with, i assume? i found the bass and soundstage to be slightly lacking with thin/no foams.


----------



## msknight

vapman said:


> No worries if you don't have EQ abilities, some of your players might have it. i think you should be happy with them if you were more interested by my statements on their non-EQ'd sound... however if you find the bass still lacking (which i don't think will change much with physical burn in) i say get some thicker foams like Hiegi brand. are you using the foams it came with, i assume? i found the bass and soundstage to be slightly lacking with thin/no foams.


 
  
 Currently no foams, as I have the earhoox fitted. I've already tried the digital EQ on QMMP and am not totally happy with it. I'll try the EQ on the AK70 at some point, but I'm in no rush to form a conclusion


----------



## purplesun

msknight said:


> ...and I also enjoy this if I've got the concentration levels... I think it was put together by a fan, and I wish it would be officially done by the BBC orchestra... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YDYbOaLioU


 
 Stop it! Stop it!
 You already got me with EL&P's Fanfare 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







  
 With music genres all over the map, the TY HP650 will have it's work cut out to keep up with your play list.
 Happy days ahead, I am sure.


----------



## vapman

msknight said:


> Currently no foams, as I have the earhoox fitted. I've already tried the digital EQ on QMMP and am not totally happy with it. I'll try the EQ on the AK70 at some point, but I'm in no rush to form a conclusion


 

 if i was in uk i'd offer to mail you a pair of hiegi, but shipping overseas would be pointless financially! 
  
 if you're ever itching for a new sound from them give em a try.


----------



## msknight

purplesun said:


> Stop it! Stop it!
> You already got me with EL&P's Fanfare
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, you asked :-D
  
@vapman - I'm only just starting to crawl with these puppies... but I'll certainly keep that in mind after a week or so's listening ... thanks for the advice


----------



## msknight

purplesun said:


> Stop it! Stop it!
> You already got me with EL&P's Fanfare
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 This is my last listen for the evening (Jaco Pastorius - Liberty City) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfVhuedS45M - horns are performing very nicely on these buds. And with that... it's good night from me ...


----------



## purplesun

msknight said:


> Well, you asked :-D


 
  
 Heh! Before I could even calm down from that great callback to 1976, you sucker punched with doctor who orchestral mixes!


----------



## msknight

purplesun said:


> Heh! Before I could even calm down from that great callback to 1976, you sucker punched with doctor who orchestral mixes!


 
  
 My taste is just like me ... all over the place


----------



## springbay

brian coffey said:


> @vapman Quote is from DIY Earbud thread.
> 
> Originally Posted by *springbay*
> 
> ...


 
  
 Just a heads up. I've edited my post in the DIY thread.
 I read the warning label on the Loctite tube today. It is *not a product suitable for using anywhere near your ears*.
 So, please I hope nobody else will try modding with it. I'll just get some Blutack instead. God thing the SHE3800 is dirt cheap so I wont feel bad throwing away the first mod.


----------



## Willber

akashs04 said:


> Oh. So I shud remove it form my buying list. Vrem? Good with Bass, Warmness and clarity?


 
 <yawn>


----------



## kennyk64

akashs04 said:


> No worry. I reported your post to the moderator. If you cannot help, I am fine but I want to ensure that I am not going to waste $$s completely. What I will do of cable without headphone?


 
  
 I don't know what is your justification to report @BloodyPenguin. People have no obligation to help anyone here. If you have any question regarding the product, why not ask the seller instead? I rarely post in this thread but seeing your relentless behavior and reported someone because they didn't help you makes you look like a crybaby.


----------



## AkashS04

It is not that I am dependent on you or others to get nice earbuds. Even a $1000 earbuds can be waste for me if I don't like the sound. I was just trying to order correct item. If I buy and listen to them and if I don't like, then no use for me. BTW, there are people on this site who are ready to help anytime in picking up the earphones/earbuds


----------



## ClieOS

BTW, regarding Shozy Stardust and BK - I have confirmation from Shozy that they are the same thing.


----------



## Townyj

clieos said:


> BTW, regarding Shozy Startdust and BK - I have confirmation from Shozy that they are the same thing.


 
 Awesome!  Look forward to hearing some people impressions on these. Id like to keep my earbud collection to 3... but it hasn't headed in that direction. :/
  
 Was a little worried they only put the BK out as a prototype and the Stardust would be a different tuning.


----------



## WillTirta

clieos said:


> I received the replacement pair of Masya and it indeed feel more solid than the previous pair. I won't say it is anywhere tank-like, but it is good enough to retract the warning. However, it is not a pair of earbud that can take much abuse, purely because of its custom printed housing (*like any CIEM, you won't want to drop them). So if you want one, make sure you can take good care of it.




So how is the masya sir??
Where it is placed in list?
Champion? Great..
Really curious about this one


----------



## kennyk64

akashs04 said:


> It is not that I am dependent on you or others to get nice earbuds. Even a $1000 earbuds can be waste for me if I don't like the sound. I was just trying to order correct item. If I buy and listen to them and if I don't like, then no use for me. *BTW, there are people on this site who are ready to help anytime in picking up the earphones/earbuds*


 
  
 As I have mentioned, you can email the seller to know what is in the package you are about to order.
 I think a lot of times have been mentioned how does something sound is very subjective. What people like might be crap for you.
 Impression might be close if someone has the same source (DAP or DAC) with yours.
 I know there are some people who are ready to help and they will appear to help when they are, you don't have to post so many times with the same question.


----------



## ClieOS

willtirta said:


> So how is the masya sir??
> Where it is placed in list?
> Champion? Great..
> Really curious about this one


 
  
 List already updated.


----------



## rockingthearies

akashs04 said:


> It is not that I am dependent on you or others to get nice earbuds. Even a $1000 earbuds can be waste for me if I don't like the sound. I was just trying to order correct item. If I buy and listen to them and if I don't like, then no use for me. BTW, there are people on this site who are ready to help anytime in picking up the earphones/earbuds




If you worry about the earbuds not sounding similar to your preferred sound signature, I would suggest you tell us what is your preferred signature. If you do not know, then my next suggestion would be to go to a nearby audio store test some earpiece out and tells us which are the ones you like, so we can help you out and you won't have to worry about wasting your money then


----------



## luedriver

monk + with 1 click is for android
  
 monk + ios version is for ...mobile devices that use ios, like apple
  
 just a fyi


----------



## b0ssMax

luedriver said:


> monk + with 1 click is for android
> 
> monk + ios version is for ...mobile devices that use ios, like apple
> 
> just a fyi




It wasn't that hard, was it?


----------



## luedriver

mrmax said:


> It wasn't that hard, was it?


 
 well someone had to say the obvious


----------



## Frederick Wang

I just paid for a pair of these, don't know what to expect, but I'm so happy


----------



## ryanjsoo

frederick wang said:


> I just paid for a pair of these, don't know what to expect, but I'm so happy


 
 Nice, I just bought a set too!


----------



## teston

frederick wang said:


> I just paid for a pair of these, don't know what to expect, but I'm so happy


 
 What is this buds? Looks so interesting! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


clieos said:


> List already updated.


 
 Anyone can post the picture of the updated list? My office network cannot connect to some links like bitly


----------



## music4mhell

Rose Masya in the Champions just below K500.
  
 Wow, now i own all available champions  (Excluding Zen1, Blox TM7, MX985 which are not available )


----------



## Frederick Wang

teston said:


> What is this buds? Looks so interesting!


 
 Sony MDR E252
 An earbud older than me, so I'm thinking I will skip the burning-in process this time


----------



## kurtextrem

One seller on Ali has a nice discount for Headfi people wanting the Masya. His name is Jim
Pretty cool dude, he also showed interest in the Shozy Stardust, so let's see when he has it 

can't wait for your opinion on them, music - I hope you can finally make me decide which one to buy


----------



## kennyk64

frederick wang said:


> Sony MDR E252
> An earbud older than me, so I'm thinking I will skip the burning-in process this time


 
  Where did you get it from? I'm always interested to get one of these.


----------



## magitka27

fairx said:


> I bought mine at 47 usd. The price was meant for Hp320M. The real price of Hp320 is higher but only few dollars. The price fluctuate constantly on aliexpress. I usually wait till discount. However you could try asking for price discount as mentioned here by the veterans . I never ask for head-fi discounts before maybe I should start soon.
> 
> For us Malaysian with currency woes it's pricey too buy too. I really wanted to try high ohm earbud for quite some time I even save for a desktop amp. But rest assured most decent amp will do. Tried with my friend fiio Q1 dac amp and it's sound very good.
> 
> ...




Q1 is a neutral to warm dac/amp and a nice burn in device 

But in the end i bought topping nx3 to feed my seahf and its good ! I doubt it can feed another high impedance earbud like the Hi-Z hp400s hehehehe :3

I never experienced any overseas transaction buy if its cheaper then i will put it into account maybe i getlucky with discounts :3

I hate to discuss it here , i have radius nhr21 as a former main listening partner, and still my seahf and nhr21 is a couple that cant be disjointed , it has rumbling and powerfull bass but seahf fills my need for soundstage and top end details, im curious about what everybody's using to feed their TOTL earbuds because as we know some earbuds need additional amplifiers hehe


----------



## Brooko

[Mod Comment]
  
 Just a reminder of the rules.  No personal attacks.  if you think someone is not following the rules (eg multiple posts etc), next time don't react - flag the posts and don't reply to them. By replying you are simply leaving more mess for us to clean up afterward.
  
 Thanks


----------



## AudioNewbi3

frederick wang said:


> Sony MDR E252
> An earbud older than me, so I'm thinking I will skip the burning-in process this time


 
 Did you get them from Taobao?


----------



## Danneq

frederick wang said:


> I just paid for a pair of these, don't know what to expect, but I'm so happy


 


 Congrats! If it's a genuine article you will probably be pleased. It is my second favorite earbud after Blox TM7, and it beats most of my other earbuds such as Sennheiser MX980/985, Rose Mojito, VE Zen 1 etc.

 I just got a pair of Aiwa HP V99 that I'll try to recable so I have not included them. They might compete with Blox TM7 for the first place.

 I've got both E282 and E484 and to my ears E252 beats both of them.

 Bass is okay, mids are slightly "dry" sounding and a bit forward. Details are very good and so is the size and depth of the soundstage (medium size soundstage, not close to the huge size of Rose Mojito).

 EDIT: I've got a pair of Cypherus QFred on the way and I have not yet bought or heard stuff such as TY HiZ HP650, K's 500 ohm earbud or Shozy Stardust (I'll skip Rose Masya). So I have yet to include those in my top 10...


----------



## vapman

As far as vintage Sony goes, it always seems to be the ones that get less attention to be the nicer sounding ones overall. E838 is still my favorite Sony yet, but I haven't heard many of the older models.


----------



## Frederick Wang

kennyk64 said:


> Where did you get it from? I'm always interested to get one of these.


 
 From a Taobao seller, he acquired it from Japan, but only one pair, and I got it, lucky me, lol 
  


> AudioNewbi3
> 
> 
> Did you get them from Taobao?


 
 Yes


----------



## vapman

BTW, I know it sounds crazy but I kind of want to change my TY 650's cable -_- It sounds just fine but looks and feels just ok... haha.
  
 Won't be putting that KZ cable on it, will use something nicer on it.


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> BTW, I know it sounds crazy but I kind of want to change my TY 650's cable -_- It sounds just fine but looks and feels just ok... haha.
> 
> Won't be putting that KZ cable on it, will use something nicer on it.


 
 Buy **** cable and use it


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> Buy **** cable and use it


 

 Which one's that?


----------



## b0ssMax

danneq said:


> Congrats! If it's a genuine article you will probably be pleased. It is my second favorite earbud after Blox TM7, and it beats most of my other earbuds such as Sennheiser MX980/985, Rose Mojito, VE Zen 1 etc.
> 
> 
> I just got a pair of Aiwa HP V99 that I'll try to recable so I have not included them. They might compete with Blox TM7 for the first place.
> ...




Congrats. I got the campfreds and I couldn't put them down. How are the qfreds for you?


----------



## Danneq

mrmax said:


> Congrats. I got the campfreds and I couldn't put them down. How are the qfreds for you?


 


 Do you have any other high end earbuds to compare the CampFreds to? I was thinking of perhaps buying a pair of those if I like QFred. The QFreds should arrive at the beginning of next week...


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Buy **** cable and use it
> ...


 
 There are 2 versions as far as i am aware of, Silver and Black cable.
 As **** PT15 has detachable cable, you can ask any seller, they will send it.
  
 I have asked my seller to give another cable as complimentary with silver cable


----------



## Frederick Wang

danneq said:


> Congrats! If it's a genuine article you will probably be pleased. It is my second favorite earbud after Blox TM7, and it beats most of my other earbuds such as Sennheiser MX980/985, Rose Mojito, VE Zen 1 etc.
> 
> I just got a pair of Aiwa HP V99 that I'll try to recable so I have not included them. They might compete with Blox TM7 for the first place.
> 
> ...


 
 Blox TM7 is nowhere to be found, I have already made my peace with it, hope their soon-to-come new flagship will make that craving obsolete.
  
 I remember I saw somewhere, Rose Mojito was an effort to emulate the Aiwa V99 in the first place


----------



## Danneq

frederick wang said:


> I remember I saw somewhere, Rose Mojito was an effort to emulate the Aiwa V99 in the first place


 

 The sound signature is not very similar at all. Perhaps the openness of the soundstage is similar...

 I think Sony MDR E252 is closer to Aiwa HP V99. Older Sony and Aiwa earbuds have got a sort of "dry" sound that modern earbuds really cannot emulate.

 EDIT: And I have been waiting for the new Blox flagship ever since I bought and loved the TM7...


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> frederick wang said:
> 
> 
> > I remember I saw somewhere, Rose Mojito was an effort to emulate the Aiwa V99 in the first place
> ...


 
 When will you $200+ earbud will arrive, sorry i forgot the name  It's from Indonesia if i am not wrong.


----------



## Danneq

danneq said:


> The QFreds should arrive at the beginning of next week...


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> danneq said:
> 
> 
> > The QFreds should arrive at the beginning of next week...


 
 I am super curious to know your impression or review.
 If it's really good at par with Blox TM7, i will buy in no time


----------



## Frederick Wang

danneq said:


> EDIT: And I have been waiting for the new Blox flagship ever since I bought and loved the TM7...


 
 Blox sure is a teaser...


----------



## Frederick Wang

music4mhell said:


> I am super curious to know your impression or review.
> If it's really good at par with Blox TM7, i will buy in no time


 
 Me too
 Though my last and only attempt to buy earbuds from Indonesia came to no end. 
 After 2 weeks without response I cancelled my order for Edimun V3


----------



## golov17

Best budget?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

@Danneq you might want to check out this Taobao store:
https://383951772.taobao.com/category-355036994.htm?spm=a1z10.1-c.0.0.YWL2Un&search=y&catName=%B6%FA%BB%FA
  
 (beware the page will auto play music hahaha)

@Frederick Wang do you still have the link for the Taobao seller?
 Maybe there ia other gems hahaha


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> I am super curious to know your impression or review.
> If it's really good at par with Blox TM7, i will buy in no time


 


 Some tiny piece of info (mainly from the Cypherus audio X Facebook page):

 "CampFred 32 ohm. QFred 70 ohm"

 QFred: "Tuned for Vocal lover without sacrifying hi and low....."

 The cable also looks very much like the one on Shozy Cygnus...


----------



## kerulberul

can someone link the K's earbud taobao shop? tried searching for it there and some weird stuff came up and does shozy have an official store in taobao or are they just resellers?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Wow shozy stardust in champions...


----------



## AkashS04

I simply asked for very warm, with huge Bass and Smooth earbuds and while I decided to buy Monk+ with suggestions of others, AliExpress site is so confusing and they sell earbuds and cable also separately so I wasn't sure if I selecting "35mm 1click mic" option am I going to get  earbud with Mic or only Cable with Mic which you can replace but have to buy earbud separately. For that purpose only I asked if I some one has bought Monk+ with Mic and what they get. People need not to "Yawn" or Report my comments to Moderator if no one replied and as the pages update in every few minutes, I have to post it couple of times. I already posted my query to seller but AliExpress is not Amazon that you will get reply to your concern or query. I won't be wondering if they don't send the earbuds at all even after receiving the money.
  
 Anyway. Thnx for your msg. As I mentioned earlier, I want an Earbud which is very warm, very bassy and have some clarity as well but not harsh and have smooth sound. The mentioned two earbuds I am going to order. If I get actual earbud with Mic, then it is good, if not then $10 gone in water.


----------



## Danneq

akashs04 said:


> I simply asked for very warm, with huge Bass and Smooth earbuds and while I decided to buy Monk+ with suggestions of others, AliExpress site is so confusing and they sell earbuds and cable also separately so I wasn't sure if I selecting "35mm 1click mic" option am I going to get  earbud with Mic or only Cable with Mic which you can replace but have to buy earbud separately. For that purpose only I asked if I some one has bought Monk+ with Mic and what they get. People need not to "Yawn" or Report my comments to Moderator if no one replied and as the pages update in every few minutes, I have to post it couple of times. I already posted my query to seller but AliExpress is not Amazon that you will get reply to your concern or query. I won't be wondering if they don't send the earbuds at all even after receiving the money.
> 
> Anyway. Thnx for your msg. As I mentioned earlier, I want an Earbud which is very warm, very bassy and have some clarity as well but not harsh and have smooth sound. The mentioned two earbuds I am going to order. If I get actual earbud with Mic, then it is good, if not then $10 gone in water.


 

 Just take a chance! I buy earbuds for at least $50 every month. If I don't like more expensive earbuds I sell them. If I don't like cheaper earbuds I either give them away or include them in sales of more expensive earbuds.

 People in this thread buy new earbuds all the time.

 Just live a little and take chances! So what if you lose $10 or even $20?


----------



## Danneq

tayyab pirzada said:


> Wow shozy stardust in champions...


 


 The champions category is becoming a bit crowded!

 I still miss the short descriptions of the sound of the earbuds from the old list...


----------



## Willber

akashs04 said:


> I simply asked for very warm, with huge Bass and Smooth earbuds and while I decided to buy Monk+ with suggestions of others, AliExpress site is so confusing and they sell earbuds and cable also separately so I wasn't sure if I selecting "35mm 1click mic" option am I going to get  earbud with Mic or only Cable with Mic which you can replace but have to buy earbud separately. For that purpose only I asked if I some one has bought Monk+ with Mic and what they get. People need not to "Yawn" or Report my comments to Moderator if no one replied and as the pages update in every few minutes, I have to post it couple of times. I already posted my query to seller but AliExpress is not Amazon that you will get reply to your concern or query. I won't be wondering if they don't send the earbuds at all even after receiving the money.


 
 Yes, Aliexpress are bad, that's why nobody on here ever uses them...


----------



## kartik7405

akashs04 said:


> I simply asked for very warm, with huge Bass and Smooth earbuds and while I decided to buy Monk+ with suggestions of others, AliExpress site is so confusing and they sell earbuds and cable also separately so I wasn't sure if I selecting "35mm 1click mic" option am I going to get  earbud with Mic or only Cable with Mic which you can replace but have to buy earbud separately. For that purpose only I asked if I some one has bought Monk+ with Mic and what they get. People need not to "Yawn" or Report my comments to Moderator if no one replied and as the pages update in every few minutes, I have to post it couple of times. I already posted my query to seller but AliExpress is not Amazon that you will get reply to your concern or query. I won't be wondering if they don't send the earbuds at all even after receiving the money.
> 
> Anyway. Thnx for your msg. As I mentioned earlier, I want an Earbud which is very warm, very bassy and have some clarity as well but not harsh and have smooth sound. The mentioned two earbuds I am going to order. If I get actual earbud with Mic, then it is good, if not then $10 gone in water.


 
 Bro you do not really able understand;they does not sell cable only.
 The earbud comes with mic included.As you are using your ipod so need of mic.if you have plan to use in smartphone then go for it.
 You will not got any reply ;as Venture electonics have good image on market;so they will not answer noob questions.
  
 i purchased many thing from aliexpress;do not treat them as theif.Ali is better than ebay ;as per my view.But shipping is late as its a overseas shipping. 
  
        Hope your doubt clarified.


----------



## Fabi

akashs04 said:


> I simply asked for very warm, with huge Bass and Smooth earbuds



You should take a look at Awei Es10 mic version and easy to buy. Read about it, decide if it would suit you and let us breath a little, brother.


----------



## music4mhell

fabi said:


> akashs04 said:
> 
> 
> > I simply asked for very warm, with huge Bass and Smooth earbuds
> ...


 
 Yes i will suggest Awei ES10 too, man this earbud has superb bass and Sub bass too


----------



## AkashS04

Thanks for suggestion. As of now, I ordered  

 1) Vrme Earphone Sport Earphones Earbuds Stereo Headphones Music Headset With HD Mic 
 2) Monk+ with Android Mic. 
  
  
 Though I am planning to use it with iPod Nano but as of now I have Nano 7th Gen which is not good at all and I am not sure when I will be able to buy Nano 1st Gen as it is expensive. So until I buy that, I might continue to use Galaxy S6 Edge for Music so for some convenience of picking up the calls while listening to the music, I ordered both earbuds with Mic. Not sure how good is Vrme Earbuds.


----------



## Saoshyant

Guess I should dust off my ES10, been ages


----------



## AkashS04

I will consider ES10 if I don't like Monk+ and Vrem. But are they more Warm and Bassier than Monk+. Some people says Monk+ has huge and deep bass and very very warm that your ear will burn . Is it so? If that is the case then it might work for my iPod nano 7 Gen as well as Bass and Warmness are what is missing in that. Altrernate, I can try to change the Sound Chip of Nano 7th Gen to Wolfson Chip.


----------



## b0ssMax

danneq said:


> Do you have any other high end earbuds to compare the CampFreds to? I was thinking of perhaps buying a pair of those if I like QFred. The QFreds should arrive at the beginning of next week...




I'm expecting toneking ty2 and ty hi-z 650 in the next couple of weeks, not sure if these are considered hi-end. I have ty hi-z 400s, 32 ohm and of course monk plus right now. Mx985 by january when my father in law brings them over.

Campfreds have better detail, separation and the overall tonality is something i like. Only recently have i been focused on ear buds, so not much comparison save for the monks and hi-z.

I heard some folks mention qfreds being more mid centric. Though i'm skeptical til i get to demo it. If not, might take the risk and do a blind purchase since i've done worse anyway.


----------



## magitka27

mrmax said:


> I'm expecting toneking ty2 and ty hi-z 650 in the next couple of weeks, not sure if these are considered hi-end. I have ty hi-z 400s, 32 ohm and of course monk plus right now. Mx985 by january when my father in law brings them over.
> 
> Campfreds have better detail, separation and the overall tonality is something i like. Only recently have i been focused on ear buds, so not much comparison save for the monks and hi-z.
> 
> I heard some folks mention qfreds being more mid centric. Though i'm skeptical til i get to demo it. If not, might take the risk and do a blind purchase since i've done worse anyway.




Im interested in ty hi-z 400s, what do you think about it? Can you give me some clue about it ? My colleagues dont have the demo here in Indonesia, and im not clear with sifu ClieOs spectrum graphics review

Can i listen to it with my Topping Nx3 without being underpowered ?


----------



## luedriver

I know this is kinda late, but does anyone know if there is a recording of that live video wild lee did on facebook on the 17th (I think)?
  
 I couldn't watch it then and was waiting for something to show up, but hasn't


----------



## boblauer

akashs04 said:


> I will consider ES10 if I don't like Monk+ and Vrem. But are they more Warm and Bassier than Monk+. Some people says Monk+ has huge and deep bass and very very warm that your ear will burn . Is it so? If that is the case then it might work for my iPod nano 7 Gen as well as Bass and Warmness are what is missing in that. Altrernate, I can try to change the Sound Chip of Nano 7th Gen to Wolfson Chip.


 
 At the risk of feeding into this.
  
 I would not say MP bass is huge, in fact compared to on ears or speakers no earbud has huge bass tghat I've personally heard. The MP is a great value at the price, perfoms well most genre's. They do not come without a cable nor sell the cable only, it an al or none deal(cable is directly soldered to driver and board). The on click is Android version the orther IOS version. If you don;t like Ali order directly from VECLAN website, that's Venture Electronics site. 
 Also good luck changing the DAC chip on the Nano 7g, that's a daunting task.
 Again as has been mentioned dozens of times, find a DAP whose sound signature you like then get some earbuds or IEMs or whatever that do not color the sound much and you'll be close to your preference. By trying to find earbuds that change or emulate the sound you are looking for you will not be happy. As far as buying and not liking and wasting money; to most of us this is a hobby so a few dollars here or there is part of a hobby. I have probably a dozen earbuds right now and listen to 3 consistently, I've given away to family and friends at a dozen others that I got and said  oh no to, did not like or sounded exactly like something I already owned
  
 PS if you really are insistent on the Wolfson sound check out the Cowon Plenue D. That has a Wolfson DAC chip, great battery life, solid UI and EQ features. Not sure what  you want to spend but it's $200.


----------



## Danneq

mrmax said:


> I'm expecting toneking ty2 and ty hi-z 650 in the next couple of weeks, not sure if these are considered hi-end. I have ty hi-z 400s, 32 ohm and of course monk plus right now. Mx985 by january when my father in law brings them over.
> 
> Campfreds have better detail, separation and the overall tonality is something i like. Only recently have i been focused on ear buds, so not much comparison save for the monks and hi-z.
> 
> I heard some folks mention qfreds being more mid centric. Though i'm skeptical til i get to demo it. If not, might take the risk and do a blind purchase since i've done worse anyway.




Thanks. I read on the Cypherus Facebook page that QFred is good for vocals but doesn't sacrifice bass and treble. I pretty much took a blind chance on a $200 earbud (+ $40 in shipping). Since I had sold some audio stuff and could use that money for the QFred the risk doesn't feel as big. And your impressions of CampFred sound promising. CampFred seems to be more focused on upper mids and highs than QFred which is more focused on mids. But the overall detail, separation and tonality might be a bit similar...

I might go for a pair of CampFred next...


----------



## AkashS04

Hi,
  
 Thanks for your reply. I already ordered from AliExpress so cannot buy from VE Site. I searched 100 times for that site but it never comes up in Google Search. Anyway, now I need to wait for 20 days for MP and 40 days for other earbud I ordered. Cowen Plenue D has Wolfson WM8998 which seems to be good. Let me find out more in terms of size and weight and I might try and buy it as this is available at B&H also for trying. Did you hear it? Is it having same sound signature of Nano 1st gen?


----------



## ozkan

akashs04 said:


> I will consider ES10 if I don't like Monk+ and Vrem. But are they more Warm and Bassier than Monk+. Some people says Monk+ has huge and deep bass and very very warm that your ear will burn . Is it so? If that is the case then it might work for my iPod nano 7 Gen as well as Bass and Warmness are what is missing in that. Altrernate, I can try to change the Sound Chip of Nano 7th Gen to Wolfson Chip.




Let me do a favor my friend. Whatever you buy ether Monk+ or other MX500 designed brands, just put some BlueTac inside the shell. By this mod you'll hear your bass improved without sacrificing the overall clarity. If it's not enough bassy for you then add some cotton or foam around the magnet. Or pair with double thin red and blue foams. That's it! I'm sure you'll get the bass you want. 

You can also boost the bass with EQ. That works very well on Monk+. 

You can check this thread for more mods. 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/822327/diy-earbuds/90#post_12952115


----------



## boblauer

akashs04 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for your reply. I already ordered from AliExpress so cannot buy from VE Site. I searched 100 times for that site but it never comes up in Google Search. Anyway, now I need to wait for 20 days for MP and 40 days for other earbud I ordered. Cowen Plenue D has Wolfson WM8998 which seems to be good. Let me find out more in terms of size and weight and I might try and buy it as this is available at B&H also for trying. Did you hear it? Is it having same sound signature of Nano 1st gen?


 
 I have heard Plenue D briefly when my X1 died and needed to replace it, I have not heard or remember Nano 1G so cannot compare them. The Plenue D sounded great to me, good features and small foot print(square vs rectangular shape of a Nano). I ultimately went with a X3II because of wanting to be able to play DSD/DXD files at some time in the future. Go to B&H in NY and give it a listen but I would wait until you have you earbuds and are familiar with their sound so you have at least some stable factor in the chain.


----------



## zabunny94

from what i heard in earbud lover indonesia group, campfred is using the same driver as "Advance" earbud with some little mod, which price is can be as low as IDR 55.000 or around $4 to IDR 150.000 or around $12

you might get one of those first instead dropping the big money immediately on the modded version


----------



## Ira Delphic

zabunny94 said:


> from what i heard in earbud lover indonesia group, campfred is using the same driver as "Advance" earbud with some little mod, which price is can be as low as IDR 55.000 or around $4 to IDR 150.000 or around $12
> 
> you might get one of those first instead dropping the big money immediately on the modded version


 
  
 Can you kindly provide a link or more info for "Advance" earbud?
  
 Much of the cost of an earbud goes into tuning and design, I reckon. Like @chicken beer has said, the cost of materials (driver in particular) sometimes isn't much more for an expensive unit as a "budget" earbud.


----------



## Frederick Wang

audionewbi3 said:


> @Danneq
> you might want to check out this Taobao store:
> https://383951772.taobao.com/category-355036994.htm?spm=a1z10.1-c.0.0.YWL2Un&search=y&catName=%B6%FA%BB%FA
> 
> ...




search j15888 in "shop" will take you there.

sorry im using cellphone, cannot give u the link directly


----------



## zabunny94

ira delphic said:


> Can you kindly provide a link or more info for "Advance" earbud?
> 
> Much of the cost of an earbud goes into tuning and design, I reckon. Like @chicken beer
> has said, the cost of materials (driver in particular) sometimes isn't much more for an expensive unit as a "budget" earbud.




Sorry man, I can't provide any info but the pictures of the earbud itself. Seems like it used to be famous in earbud lovers indonesia group before the monk's inception(well, to be honest we already knew many good budget earbuds before monk exist like edifier, Vido or philips she3800)


----------



## luckyeights

Anyone own the T-music (original) and version 2 with the blue cable?  Id like to know how they compare if possible I have version 1, wondering if its worth getting version 2.  Thanks.


----------



## LaRzZa

luckyeights said:


> Anyone own the T-music (original) and version 2 with the blue cable?  Id like to know how they compare if possible I have version 1, wondering if its worth getting version 2.  Thanks.


 
 Version 2 is a step up in sound quality to my ears. It has same bass with improved mids and highs. Sound is more balanced in version 2.


----------



## AkashS04

That's what I am planning. Will wait for earbuds to be delivered which will take 3 weeks at least. I wud even wait for the other earbud (Vrem) and see how it is. Plenue D is bigger and heavier than iPod Nano but let's see how I feel when I actually experience it.


----------



## Fabi

magitka27 said:


> Im interested in ty hi-z 400s, what do you think about it? Can you give me some clue about it ? My colleagues dont have the demo here in Indonesia, and im not clear with sifu ClieOs spectrum graphics review
> 
> Can i listen to it with my Topping Nx3 without being underpowered ?


 
 According to its specs, Nx3 would be a bit short if you want to hear it closer to its best. Nx5 would be better indeed.
 When underpowered, the soundstage is too narrow, sound is too congested.
 My amp is something like twice powerful than nx3. I am very happy with it but I think that even more power would be better for 400s. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 400s: a bit warm, kind of analogue sound, smooth treble but well extended, deep, enveloping and not bleeding bass, midrange is very detailed, full and natural, may be forward for some, soundstage is realistic, not too wide nor too narrow.
 Pairing it with (ultra) analytical sources like Chord Hugo (pretty expensive) by example makes it sound litterally neutral. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It was awesome!


----------



## AkashS04

Thanks. Let me go through the thread and see how to use that.


----------



## Danneq

zabunny94 said:


> from what i heard in earbud lover indonesia group, campfred is using the same driver as "Advance" earbud with some little mod, which price is can be as low as IDR 55.000 or around $4 to IDR 150.000 or around $12
> 
> you might get one of those first instead dropping the big money immediately on the modded version


 


 That would be interesting to check out. Edimun V2 & V3 and Red De'mun are mods of Edifier H180's drivers and Shozy Cygnus apparently uses old Yuin PK2 drivers and they are all better than the original (well, I've only heard Edimun V3 and Shozy Cygnus).

 I suppose since the CampFred were a limited release of about 100 or less pairs in total Cypherus could charge more. Bengkel Macro is small like Cypherus audio X but can produce stuff at a higher rate and I imagine that keeps the price down as Bengkel Macro get to sell a bigger quantity of their earbuds and amps.


----------



## Ira Delphic

danneq said:


> zabunny94 said:
> 
> 
> > from what i heard in earbud lover indonesia group, campfred is using the same driver as "Advance" earbud with some little mod, which price is can be as low as IDR 55.000 or around $4 to IDR 150.000 or around $12
> ...


 
  
 Interesting. Edifier H180 currently $12.99 on Amazon. Tuning, shell, etc. makes all the difference but must the H180 have huge DIY mod potential. And the H180 is no champion. Just category 4 "good."


----------



## AkashS04

Looks like that BlueTac you need to insert after opening the shell of the earbud.


----------



## Danneq

ira delphic said:


> Interesting. Edifier H180 currently $12.99 on Amazon. Tuning, shell, etc. makes all the difference but must the H180 have huge DIY mod potential. And the H180 is no champion. Just category 4 "good."


 


 And Edimun V3 is number 6 on the contender list...


----------



## Willber

akashs04 said:


> Looks like that BlueTac you need to insert after opening the shell of the earbud.


 

 Akash, if you use the 'Quote' button we can see which post you are replying to.


----------



## AkashS04

ozkan said:


> Let me do a favor my friend. Whatever you buy ether Monk+ or other MX500 designed brands, just put some BlueTac inside the shell. By this mod you'll hear your bass improved without sacrificing the overall clarity. If it's not enough bassy for you then add some cotton or foam around the magnet. Or pair with double thin red and blue foams. That's it! I'm sure you'll get the bass you want.
> 
> You can also boost the bass with EQ. That works very well on Monk+.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I was talking abt this.


----------



## Brian Coffey

akashs04 said:


> I was talking abt this.


 
 Yes the shell is normally opened to insert the Blue-Tak.


----------



## Roen

Where does the Zen 2.0 Black Balanced stand up in the realm of high end earbuds?


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> That would be interesting to check out. Edimun V2 & V3 and Red De'mun are mods of Edifier H180's drivers and Shozy Cygnus apparently uses old Yuin PK2 drivers and they are all better than the original (well, I've only heard Edimun V3 and Shozy Cygnus).
> 
> 
> I suppose since the CampFred were a limited release of about 100 or less pairs in total Cypherus could charge more. Bengkel Macro is small like Cypherus audio X but can produce stuff at a higher rate and I imagine that keeps the price down as Bengkel Macro get to sell a bigger quantity of their earbuds and amps.


Shozy uses not Yuin drivers


----------



## Ira Delphic

willber said:


> akashs04 said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like that BlueTac you need to insert after opening the shell of the earbud.
> ...


 
  
@Willber you see the movie "Paranormal Activity" (2007)? Remember when the characters were warned not to use the Ouija board, and what happened when they ignored the advice? Just sayin...


----------



## AkashS04

Got it. Let me listen to the Monk+ and see if it needs BluTack or not


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> Shozy uses not Yuin drivers


 

 Okay... I remember reading somewhere that the secret NOS drivers were PK2 drivers. Do you mean that Shozy uses the Docomo earbuds? Docomo is a mobile phone company in Japan and I suppose those are earbuds for customers of Docomo...


----------



## vapman

larzza said:


> Version 2 is a step up in sound quality to my ears. It has same bass with improved mids and highs. Sound is more balanced in version 2.




BloodyPenguin has both and has commented on it before but if i wasnt on mobile (like everyone else here) i would link you up. It is a decent number of pages back by now


----------



## Willber

ira delphic said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > akashs04 said:
> ...


 

 Um, no...
 But I do see that your post count is 666!


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> Okay... I remember reading somewhere that the secret NOS drivers were PK2 drivers. Do you mean that Shozy uses the Docomo earbuds? Docomo is a mobile phone company in Japan and I suppose those are earbuds for customers of Docomo...


Shozy said "japanese" drivers..


----------



## vapman

I've been wondering for a while about how close those Docomo branded ones are to the Cygnus, if the drivers are the same or anything. Would like to try them out or even see a picture of the drivers.  I also wonder who is OEMing for Docomo.


----------



## golov17

trade secret these things, of course, lol


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> Shozy said "japanese" drivers..




I think I missed the "Japanese" part...


----------



## vapman

I've also read Shozy claiming that Cygnus uses NOS drivers sourced from Japan. Of course the validity of that and actual source of the drivers, who knows.
  
 But if they are NOS - i have noticed pretty much every modern driver also has a quite modern looking green PCB, anyone else noticed that on newer ones? (haven't broken open ones like TY 650 or Qian39 so it's possible some newer ones don't have that design).


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> I think I missed the "Japanese" part...


Google translate


----------



## kurtextrem

All the talk about Cygnus and I'm like *waiting for Stardust on Ali*


----------



## boblauer

kurtextrem said:


> All the talk about Cygnus and I'm like *waiting for Stardust on Ali*


 
 And sell me your Cygnus with a deep used item discount


----------



## Philimon

Just got the RX1 and wow. So much value for $20. The sound, the build of the headphone, and packaging and accessories. Ridiculous. I think I might buy extra pairs just incase they get discontinued. Grade SR60e came in the mail at the same time, but they'll have to wait. I did try them to make sure they were working, but didn't blow me away like these because '$20'. Even if they cost the same... Give me and the headphones a little burn-in time to decide which I prefer.


----------



## Ira Delphic

philimon said:


> Just got the RX1 and wow. So much value for $20. The sound, the build of the headphone, and packaging and accessories. Ridiculous. I think I might buy extra pairs just incase they get discontinued. Grade SR60e came in the mail at the same time, but they'll have to wait. I did try them to make sure they were working, but didn't blow me away like these because '$20'. Even if they cost the same... Give me and the headphones a little burn-in time to decide which I prefer.


 
  
 I've been looking at those too. One of the few good earbuds easily available from Amazon US, no having to wait for epacket. There's also Edifier H185, readily available.


----------



## vapman

philimon said:


> Just got the RX1 and wow. So much value for $20. The sound, the build of the headphone, and packaging and accessories. Ridiculous. I think I might buy extra pairs just incase they get discontinued. Grade SR60e came in the mail at the same time, but they'll have to wait. I did try them to make sure they were working, but didn't blow me away like these because '$20'. Even if they cost the same... Give me and the headphones a little burn-in time to decide which I prefer.


 

 The SR60 was the first headphone I ever bought after joining this site, a bit over 10 years ago. I wish I could have started with something like the RX1! they're great. I am still tempted to get another pair from time to time.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I wonder if Shozy BK is worth waiting for until they release it as Stardust or if I should just buy it now. I'm curious to hear how they sound by anyone who has tried them. Crazy how they are so high up in the Champions category now.


----------



## Philimon

vapman said:


> The SR60 was the first headphone I ever bought after joining this site, a bit over 10 years ago. I wish I could have started with something like the RX1! they're great. I am still tempted to get another pair from time to time.


 

 You should try the e version of the SR60. I tell you it's good! 
  
 This is partly why I wanted to try an SR60e:
  


james6333 said:


> So I have had Grados on an off for the last 15 year and never tried the lower end Grados until just recently.
> 
> I ordered a pair of SR60es as s gift for a friend and gave them a try to make sure I was not giving away a poor sounding headphone.
> 
> ...


 
  
 SR60e measurements:

  
 I've owned a few lower end Grado models in the past and modded them, but this is the only one I think I will want to leave stock except for maybe a comfier headband and maybe some L-pads with tape mod and...


----------



## vapman

Thanks! But i meant another rx1, not another sr60


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> The SR60 was the first headphone I ever bought after joining this site, a bit over 10 years ago. I wish I could have started with something like the RX1! they're great. I am still tempted to get another pair from time to time.


 
  
 The cheapest Grado 60 variant were my standard headphone gifts to friends who needed an upgrade. Seems to be always priced at around $70-$80 no matter when I buy them, so it wasn't too bad on the wallet as gifts. But, with the ascendency of china-made earphones in past few years, I will probably switch away from the 60s. Great & easy to appreciate headphones, but unfortunately too tight around the head for me.


----------



## james6333

purplesun said:


> The cheapest Grado 60 variant were my standard headphone gifts to friends who needed an upgrade. Seems to be always priced at around $70-$80 no matter when I buy them, so it wasn't too bad on the wallet as gifts. But, with the ascendency of china-made earphones in past few years, I will probably switch away from the 60s. Great & easy to appreciate headphones, but unfortunately too tight around the head for me.




You just need to bend the mind put. Grab them above the gabbles and stretch them out.


----------



## james6333

philimon said:


> You should try the e version of the SR60. I tell you it's good!
> 
> This is partly why I wanted to try an SR60e:
> 
> ...




It does seem odd that the flattest measuring Grado is the cheapest one... though not the most transparent.


----------



## purplesun

james6333 said:


> You just need to bend the mind put. Grab them above the gabbles and stretch them out.


 

 Tried everything. My head is really big! The old 5xx & 6xx Sennheisers (at close to maximum size) are the only comfortable ones. It's OK, just seeing my friends hanging on to their old & tattered Grados from me is satisfaction enough for me


----------



## Raketen

I would be really curious to hear a Grado earbud, iGrado and MS-1 were some of my first "nice" headphones... are there any buds that are very Grado-like?


----------



## vapman

How hard is it to open the rx1 housing by the way?


----------



## rockingthearies

Guys I am not really fond of wearing my monk+ with foams because of comfort, I also feel its clearer without the foams am I placing the earbuds wrongly?


----------



## vapman

rockingthearies said:


> Guys I am not really fond of wearing my monk+ with foams because of comfort, I also feel its clearer without the foams am I placing the earbuds wrongly?


 

 you might like using just the rubber rings, no foam, with the monk.... even no foam or ring is fine! my favorite is the donuts... (also ex pack)
  
 p.s. my green ting will be here tomorrow


----------



## b0ssMax

Very much in line with my impression of the hi-z 400s, save for the treble. I would characterize it as a bit grainy/textured but to some degree I actually sorta like it. Agreed it is very much extended in both bass and highs, no bleeding bass. Tube amp like the cdm actually has good synergy with the 400s.


----------



## tinkertailor

raketen said:


> I would be really curious to hear a Grado earbud, iGrado and MS-1 were some of my first "nice" headphones... are there any buds that are very Grado-like?


 
 Someone told me they find yuins like the earbud version of grados. I love both so I have to agree. They both work well for rock. Great mids


----------



## vapman

tinkertailor said:


> Someone told me they find yuins like the earbud version of grados. I love both so I have to agree. They both work well for rock. Great mids


 

 You ever heard the Boarseman mx98s? most grado like earbud i have ever heard.


----------



## ClieOS

rockingthearies said:


> Guys I am not really fond of wearing my monk+ with foams because of comfort, I also feel its clearer without the foams am I placing the earbuds wrongly?


 
  
Try this.


----------



## magitka27

So i bought the wrong amp to join the high impedance earbuds train  pretty dissapointed but yeah nx3 is just another entry level amp ...

What kind of earbuds that i can listen to its best with nx3 mate? Should i forget about earbuds that have higher impedance than my current seahf smart 1.0 150ohm?


----------



## tinkertailor

sounds 


vapman said:


> You ever heard the Boarseman mx98s? most grado like earbud i have ever heard.


 
 Sounds like I might have to track some down


----------



## golov17

tayyab pirzada said:


> I wonder if Shozy BK is worth waiting for until they release it as Stardust or if I should just buy it now. I'm curious to hear how they sound by anyone who has tried them. Crazy how they are so high up in the Champions category now.


----------



## b0ssMax

magitka27 said:


> So i bought the wrong amp to join the high impedance earbuds train  pretty dissapointed but yeah nx3 is just another entry level amp ...
> 
> What kind of earbuds that i can listen to its best with nx3 mate? Should i forget about earbuds that have higher impedance than my current seahf smart 1.0 150ohm?




It's not the impedance, but the sensitivity of the earphone. While i don't have the specs of the ty hi-z 400s, if you hear the nx3 + 400s having the speed, dynamics, etc, then you should be fine.


----------



## ballog

vapman said:


> How hard is it to open the rx1 housing by the way?



Last night I was listening to Hans Zimmer's Interstellar soundtrack - for the first time with the RX1. I was approaching the end of the first track when something strange happened. I started to hear a strong rattling sound from the left driver. I was afraid my RX1 have gone bad. I have tried that same track with a few other earbuds and it only happened with the RX1. It is noticeable on other Interstellar tracks especially at end when there is a deep monotonic sub-bass sound. It seems that there is something wrong with the left driver noticeable due to some kind of resonant frequency. Maybe it happens on other songs and music but it is drown out by other sound. I should maybe try to open the driver and use blutack as a dampener or perhaps it would be better to talk to Penonaudio for a replacement.


----------



## Fabi

magitka27 said:


> So i bought the wrong amp to join the high impedance earbuds train  pretty dissapointed but yeah nx3 is just another entry level amp ...
> 
> What kind of earbuds that i can listen to its best with nx3 mate? Should i forget about earbuds that have higher impedance than my current seahf smart 1.0 150ohm?



I'd say with nx3 in theory less than 150ohms earbuds would be driven very well. If you keep nx3, you should look for earbuds that don't require too much power, Shozy Stardust maybe 
If you really want very high impedance earbuds, you will have to buy an other amp to do them justice. By example, I know someone has ty400 with nx5 and is very happy with it.


----------



## badmod

ballog said:


> Last night I was listening to Hans Zimmer's Interstellar soundtrack - for the first time with the RX1. I was approaching the end of the first track when something strange happened. I started to hear a strong rattling sound from the left driver. I was afraid my RX1 have gone bad. I have tried that same track with a few other earbuds and it only happened with the RX1. It is noticeable on other Interstellar tracks especially at end when there is a deep monotonic sub-bass sound. It seems that there is something wrong with the left driver noticeable due to some kind of resonant frequency. Maybe it happens on other songs and music but it is drown out by other sound. I should maybe try to open the driver and use blutack as a dampener or perhaps it would be better to talk to Penonaudio for a replacement.




It could be some dust inside. Try blow some air in it and see if that fix it.


----------



## dearyon

fabi said:


> I'd say with nx3 in theory less than 150ohms earbuds would be driven very well. If you keep nx3, you should look for earbuds that don't require too much power, Shozy Stardust maybe
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 practically earbuds doesn't require that much of power because they are efficient (especially modern one) and have small driver so they don't require power as much as headphone by the same resistance and sensitivity
 ohm is only resistance, there are still other parameter to take into account if that earbuds could be driven by a particular amp. or not
 even my phone could drive Zen 1 properly enough.
 But that is my subjective opinion and the word "driven properly" is already subjective for me.


----------



## magitka27

mrmax said:


> It's not the impedance, but the sensitivity of the earphone. While i don't have the specs of the ty hi-z 400s, if you hear the nx3 + 400s having the speed, dynamics, etc, then you should be fine.




maybe soon i will sell it and save more money to buy more powerfull amp, either i have fun with nx3 with my seahf 150, but still i regret i took a wrong step on amplifier 



fabi said:


> I'd say with nx3 in theory less than 150ohms earbuds would be driven very well. If you keep nx3, you should look for earbuds that don't require too much power, Shozy Stardust maybe
> If you really want very high impedance earbuds, you will have to buy an other amp to do them justice. By example, I know someone has ty400 with nx5 and is very happy with it.




Yes definitely mate. I aim to buy cayin c5 / fiio e12 that placed in used audio gears market here in Indonesia, i'm feeling like yeah its not going to run it effectively although based on specs of ty hi-z its sensitive enough and i count it doesnt need too much power (based on impedance calculator i know this is not a recommended way to prove its a hard driven earbuds or not lol XD )



dearyon said:


> practically earbuds doesn't require that much of power because they are efficient (especially modern one) and have small driver so they don't require power as much as headphone by the same resistance and sensitivity
> 
> ohm is only resistance, there are still other parameter to take into account if that earbuds could be driven by a particular amp. or not
> 
> ...




My phone is no better than nx3 to run my seahf, XD


----------



## teston

Hi guys,
Any recommendations for a budget earbud with mic that have decent sound quality beside ve monk+?


----------



## emptymt

@ClieOS
  
 what is the difference between shozy bk and stardust? Is it the same IEM?


----------



## ClieOS

emptymt said:


> @ClieOS
> 
> what is the difference between shozy bk and stardust? Is it the same IEM?


 
  


clieos said:


> BTW, regarding Shozy Stardust and BK - I have confirmation from Shozy that they are the same thing.


 
  
 ...and no, they are not IEM. They are earbuds


----------



## fairx

Today I test my ty 320 with sinegen and Q1. I don't think I'm doing anything wrong but after a few swipe I hear bass rattle in right driver. Almost give me a heart attack. After calming down I test it with some bass resonance track an it seems fine. Pheww..! 

All I read about few seahf based earbud having develop driver problem scared me a little. 

320 now at my friend so he can get a taste of it and I'm back at tomahawk. The cable get stiffer everyday so I'm not using it much now. 

How about 150 ohm TY? Is it safe to categorize 150 as half as good as 320. Maybe in the middle compares to 32? If it is I might get 1 just for daily driver. How about comparing 150 and MrZ TP16.


----------



## Fabi

magitka27 said:


> Yes definitely mate. I aim to buy cayin c5 / fiio e12 that placed in used audio gears market here in Indonesia,



Check on the new Fiio A5's impressions vs E12 if the upgrade really worths it, before making a move, and if you can afford it. 
Good luck for your earbuds' journey bro.


----------



## tintheman

teston said:


> Hi guys,
> Any recommendations for a budget earbud with mic that have decent sound quality beside ve monk+?


 
 I have used the Vivo X510 with mic, it works very good even with some Karaoke app.
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-VIVO-X510-In-Ear-Headphones-Headset-High-Quality-Noise-Cancelling-Earphone-For-Vivo-For-Samsung/32647768950.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.8O6T8Y


----------



## teston

tintheman said:


> I have used the Vivo X510 with mic, it works very good even with some Karaoke app.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-VIVO-X510-In-Ear-Headphones-Headset-High-Quality-Noise-Cancelling-Earphone-For-Vivo-For-Samsung/32647768950.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.8O6T8Y



Thank you bro!
I'll give it a try


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

What is the best seahf earbud (value for money wise)? I'm tempted to give them a try.


----------



## golov17

teston said:


> Thank you bro!
> I'll give it a try


 Try REMAX RM303
 http://s.aliexpress.com/UJv6B7jY


----------



## teston

golov17 said:


> Try REMAX RM303
> http://s.aliexpress.com/UJv6B7jY



Thank you sir. My local retailers have these earbuds. I'll check this out too.


----------



## Philimon

ballog said:


> Last night I was listening to Hans Zimmer's Interstellar soundtrack - for the first time with the RX1. I was approaching the end of the first track when something strange happened. I started to hear a strong rattling sound from the left driver. I was afraid my RX1 have gone bad. I have tried that same track with a few other earbuds and it only happened with the RX1. It is noticeable on other Interstellar tracks especially at end when there is a deep monotonic sub-bass sound. It seems that there is something wrong with the left driver noticeable due to some kind of resonant frequency. Maybe it happens on other songs and music but it is drown out by other sound. I should maybe try to open the driver and use blutack as a dampener or perhaps it would be better to talk to Penonaudio for a replacement.


 

 Definitely contact customer service before opening them up.


----------



## Ira Delphic

philimon said:


> ballog said:
> 
> 
> > Last night I was listening to Hans Zimmer's Interstellar soundtrack - for the first time with the RX1. I was approaching the end of the first track when something strange happened. I started to hear a strong rattling sound from the left driver. I was afraid my RX1 have gone bad. I have tried that same track with a few other earbuds and it only happened with the RX1. It is noticeable on other Interstellar tracks especially at end when there is a deep monotonic sub-bass sound. It seems that there is something wrong with the left driver noticeable due to some kind of resonant frequency. Maybe it happens on other songs and music but it is drown out by other sound. I should maybe try to open the driver and use blutack as a dampener or perhaps it would be better to talk to Penonaudio for a replacement.
> ...


 
  
 Switch the two channels. For example if you have rca jack going to mini coming out of amp, switch left and right and notice if artifact is present on the other channel.


----------



## kfarndog

akashs04 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for your reply. I already ordered from AliExpress so cannot buy from VE Site. I searched 100 times for that site but it never comes up in Google Search. Anyway, now I need to wait for 20 days for MP and 40 days for other earbud I ordered. Cowen Plenue D has Wolfson WM8998 which seems to be good. Let me find out more in terms of size and weight and I might try and buy it as this is available at B&H also for trying. Did you hear it? Is it having same sound signature of Nano 1st gen?


 
 I have the Plenue D and can vouch that it is a great sounding player.  Been too long since I heard the Nano first gen for a comparison.  Keeping the topic on earbuds, the Monk + and Tomahawks sound great with the Plenue series and it's superb equalization.


----------



## ballog

ira delphic said:


> Switch the two channels. For example if you have rca jack going to mini coming out of amp, switch left and right and notice if artifact is present on the other channel.



Already did that. Confirmed its the left driver. The problem was probably their when I got the RX1 about 2 months ago - didn't listened to them much as I was hooked on the TY HiZ 32 at that time. Its really noticeable when there like pure bass (especially on Interstellar soundtrack). Already contacted the seller.


----------



## kfarndog

akashs04 said:


> That's what I am planning. Will wait for earbuds to be delivered which will take 3 weeks at least. I wud even wait for the other earbud (Vrem) and see how it is. Plenue D is bigger and heavier than iPod Nano but let's see how I feel when I actually experience it.


 
 I think you will like the Plenue D (no line out is my only downside).  You can make nearly any earbud sound pretty darn good with the Jeteffect equalization.  A pair of Monks, Tomahawks, etc. and you have super compact and great-sounding rig.


----------



## Raketen

If you're looking at Plenue D might consider AK Jr. which is on sale for $300 at the A&K site. I have bad experience with it and it has a horrible laggy interface but good dynamic sound, more output power and also has a Wolfson chip. Plenue D has much better EQ & DSP (and UI) though, as well as more lower bass emphasis un-eq'd. Similar size in volume (pack of cards maybe?)) but different dimensions. No idea about it but iBasso DX50 has a wolfson chip as well.


----------



## kurtextrem

zombiewinegum said:


> What is the best seahf earbud (value for money wise)? I'm tempted to give them a try.


 
 i think 320 ohm has the most unique sound, but I think vapman and other can give you more insight


----------



## vapman

Havent had these for even 15 minutes and i can already tell you these are DAMN fine for hip hop fans...


----------



## vapman

ZOMBIEWINEGUM



kurtextrem said:


> i think 320 ohm has the most unique sound, but I think vapman and other can give you more insight




Hmmm...

Seahf 32 i cant easily recommend unless you like razor blade treble. Decent bass and Nice cable though.... Unique sound for sure.

150 has a fun and energic sound with pretty decent bass but rough everything else,

320 is the most unique sounding of them probably after the 32, although it is a little plain,

400 is all over the place between different revisions and is as a result more or less you get what you get...

If the 32 has at all an interesting sig to you go grab it! The 150 or 320 are better choices for a unique sound but none of them are particularly amazing. The TY variants of each are notably superior IMO.


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

I didn't realise the Seahf and TY buds were different! So would one of these be quite good?


----------



## vapman

zombiewinegum said:


> I didn't realise the Seahf and TY buds were different! So would one of these be quite good?


 

 I personally hate the newer version 400 as well as the 400s but the rest should be fine. I thought the 400S was terrible.
 Just sayin' I prefer the Qian39 to all Seahf and most TY models though.... 
 as far as i can tell the Green Ting sounds like the newer 320/400 except a little better bass and a little smoother sound.


----------



## emptymt

clieos said:


> ...and no, they are not IEM. They are earbuds


 

 sorry, i was sleepy, i mean earbud.
 they are the same right? BK = Stardust


----------



## mochill

The stardust is enhanced version


----------



## rggz

mochill said:


> The stardust is enhanced version


 

 lol... Even ClieOS posting twice about Shozy has been confirmed to him it's the same product, is it not enough?


----------



## tinkertailor

emptymt said:


> sorry, i was sleepy, i mean earbud.
> they are the same right? BK = Stardust


 
 Shozy's official facebook page has written that they are the same, Pretty definitive no? why don't you contact shozy via that page and ask, they will reply im sure.


----------



## ryanjsoo

It's on Shozy's Facebook page, Shozy Star (Shozy BK) Should be identical.


----------



## ClieOS

...and as mentioned, I got the confirmation that 'BK = Stardust' directly from Shozy themselves.


----------



## emptymt

cool thx guys!


----------



## vapman

Anyone else find the Ting to be really tiring?


----------



## fairx

I can vouch for ty hp320. The timbre and bass resonance is very good and worth the price alone. Depth and resolution is amazing . But 5k and 8k energy can be a bit too hot for some. But it's not widespreading. I only encounter it with certain track though.

I might pick up 150ohm if they got discount sales


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I've had the new *Earbud Thailand - White Hawk Earbud (WHE)* for a few days now.  With some decent burn in, I thought I would give my quick thoughts on it, verse the *Black Onyx Earbud (BOE)*
  
 http://www.earbudthailand.com/
  
*WHE* more playful than the *BOE* as it displays more bass response while the *BOE* has a bit more serous sound and touch more soundstage.
  
 The *WHE *also has a slightly beefed up cable and plug compared with the *BOE*.  I like both earbuds, I think they compliment each other.


 Here are a few photos I took of the *Earbud Thailand - White Hawk Earbud*:
  

  

  

  

  

  
  
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------

*BOE* vs *WHE*:


  
 --


----------



## Frederick Wang

Sony E252 arrived.
 Really something unique. 
 It's very detailed, but clarity is not on the same level as my ER4s, soundstage is larger, but not as large as Mojito(from memory). I think now I understand what an "immersive soundstage" is really about... it make you feel like you are sitting in a concert hall listening to music live, but that concert hall is not of top notch acoustic design. But still, the atmosphere is surreal. 
 Music is much more in-your-head than in-your-ears. 
 Very very comfortable to wear. 
  
 Some cosmetic operation might be needed for the red ring below the right driver, and the glue there seems come off a little bit, apart from that, I'm satisfied with the physical condition of my pair.


----------



## Frederick Wang

With old recordings such as this, it is right there...


----------



## Danneq

frederick wang said:


> Sony E252 arrived.
> Really something unique.
> It's very detailed, but clarity is not on the same level as my ER4s, soundstage is larger, but not as large as Mojito(from memory). I think now I understand what an "immersive soundstage" is really about... it make you feel like you are sitting in a concert hall listening to music live, but that concert hall is not of top notch acoustic design. But still, the atmosphere is surreal.
> Music is much more in-your-head than in-your-ears.
> ...




Congratulations on getting the very first and in fact the best sounding Sony earbud. To my ears it beats earbuds such as Sennheiser Mx980/985, Rose Mojito and VE Zen 1.

How much did you pay? I won my pair on an Ebay auction about 5 years ago. They were practically new in box, with the original box included, and the auction ended at around $250. Back in those days I.could spend more money on audio stuff. Nowadays I have to sell stuff to be able to buy such expensive earbuds. Well, thats what having kids will do to your wallet.


----------



## Frederick Wang

danneq said:


> Congratulations on getting the very first and in fact the best sounding Sony earbud. To my ears it beats earbuds such as Sennheiser Mx980/985, Rose Mojito and VE Zen 1.
> 
> How much did you pay? I won my pair on an Ebay auction about 5 years ago. They were practically new in box, with the original box included, and Ithe auction ended at around $250. Back in those days I.could spend more money on audio stuff. Nowadays I have to sell stuff to be able to buy such expensive earbuds. Well, thats what having kids will do to your wallet.


 
 Thank you Danneq, I paid around $150, didn't bat an eye to adopt this kid


----------



## vapman

frederick wang said:


> With old recordings such as this, it is right there...





 Great track, absolutely jealousy inducing buds you have my man! Gonna listen to my TY 650 to keep myself from spending all night on eBay looking for Sonys...


----------



## Frederick Wang

vapman said:


> Great track, absolutely jealousy inducing buds you have my man! Gonna listen to my TY 650 to keep myself from spending all night on eBay looking for Sonys...


 
 Lol, I was in luck, I was searching something else and Oh my, what did I just saw


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

Wow, I'am in love with this blue cable. Wouldn't know if they'll sound any good though...


----------



## emptymt

frederick wang said:


> With old recordings such as this, it is right there...





 LOL, I never heard this song, unique song, sounds like a Chinese song but sung in English with elements of Indonesia.
 Bengawan Solo is an Indonesian word


----------



## msknight

frederick wang said:


> With old recordings such as this, it is right there...




  
 Apparently this was released on CD - Virgin ‎– 7243 8 50542 2 8


----------



## msknight

....and was re-released in remastered form in 2016.


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

Just ordered the Fareal 64ohm with the clear housing and blue cable, mostly because I just love the way they look lol. Hopefully they should also sound good.


----------



## tinkertailor

zombiewinegum said:


> Just ordered the Fareal 64ohm with the clear housing and blue cable, mostly because I just love the way they look lol. Hopefully they should also sound good.


 
 did the same thing for the same reason tonight, though different color lol


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

Nice which colour did you get?


----------



## Tomasz2D

ClieOS, how did you manage to get your hands (ears) on Heavenly Sound Concerto? Do they ship overseas already?


----------



## ClieOS

tomasz2d said:


> ClieOS, how did you manage to get your hands (ears) on Heavenly Sound Concerto? Do they ship overseas already?


 
  
 Never know they didn't ship oversea. I messaged them on FB about 2 weeks ago, then they quote me back with a price + shipping. I paid, then waited for about a week before it arrived a few days ago.


----------



## Tomasz2D

clieos said:


> Never know they didn't ship oversea. I messaged them on FB about 2 weeks ago, then they quote me back with a price + shipping. I paid, then waited for about a week before it arrived a few days ago.


 
 So it looks like they sorted out international shipping finally. Anyway, first let's see where Concerto will land on your list.


----------



## Danneq

How about Heavenly Sounds Cadenza?


----------



## music4mhell

Any early impressions on heavenly sound flagship ?


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> Any early impressions on heavenly sound flagship ?


 


 Hmmm... Which one IS the Heavenly Sounds flagship? I thought it was Cadenza...


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> Hmmm... Which one IS the Heavenly Sounds flagship? I thought it was Cadenza...


 
 If you check this pricelist that would be Concerto:
  
Groove 199
Rhytm 399
Beat 499
New Genesis 575
Accent 599
Solitude 770
Cadenza 775
Sonata 880
New Concerto 990


----------



## Danneq

Thanks. Where did you find the price list? On the Facebook page I could not see for sale ads for Solitude, Sonata and New Concerto. Cadenza had the highest price of the ads there...


----------



## Fabi

danneq said:


> Thanks. Where did you find the price list? On the Facebook page I could not see for sale ads for Solitude, Sonata and New Concerto. Cadenza had the highest price of the ads there...


 
 This price list is on their FB page, in a earlier post.
  
  
  


music4mhell said:


> Any early impressions on heavenly sound flagship ?


 
@mochill ??


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> Thanks. Where did you find the price list? On the Facebook page I could not see for sale ads for Solitude, Sonata and New Concerto. Cadenza had the highest price of the ads there...


buddy wherr is ur earbud ?

did it reach ur country yet ?
m curious and desperate to know your impressions....


----------



## Danneq

fabi said:


> This price list is on their FB page, in a earlier post.


 

 Okay, thanks. I seldom go to HS's Facebook page but whenever I go there I check out the for sale ads and Cadenza is still the most expensive one...
  


music4mhell said:


> buddy wherr is ur earbud ?
> 
> did it reach ur country yet ?
> m curious and desperate to know your impressions....


 

 It left Indonesia on the 20th and since it is EMS it should arrive in Sweden by Tuesday or Wednesday...


----------



## tinkertailor

zombiewinegum said:


> Nice which colour did you get?


 
 i got black and pink, that clear and blue one looks sweet though, tough call.


----------



## ClieOS

danneq said:


> Thanks. Where did you find the price list? On the Facebook page I could not see for sale ads for Solitude, Sonata and New Concerto. Cadenza had the highest price of the ads there...


 
  
 I just asked them which is their flagship and how much with shipping....


----------



## music4mhell

clieos said:


> danneq said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks. Where did you find the price list? On the Facebook page I could not see for sale ads for Solitude, Sonata and New Concerto. Cadenza had the highest price of the ads there...
> ...


any early impressions sir ?


----------



## ClieOS

music4mhell said:


> any early impressions sir ?


 
  
 Haven't really had much time on it to give any note worthy impression. I merely checked if it is working fine or not, then hooked it up to my burn-in rig. I'll say it is pretty good overall - a bit on the warm and smooth side with no obvious weakness.


----------



## Danneq

clieos said:


> I just asked them which is their flagship and how much with shipping....


 

 Well, that's the easiest and fastest solution...


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

tinkertailor said:


> i got black and pink, that clear and blue one looks sweet though, tough call.


 
 Yeah they all look pretty nice. My pc and keyboard are both black black and white themed so I went for the clear+blue. Hope they sound as good as they look.


----------



## ballog

Jim from HCK on Ali is offering the Rose Masya for $99 and the special carbon fiber version for $114.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> Never know they didn't ship oversea. I messaged them on FB about 2 weeks ago, then they quote me back with a price + shipping. I paid, then waited for about a week before it arrived a few days ago.


 
 What?! Sifu you got them? Since when?!
  


tomasz2d said:


> If you check this pricelist that would be Concerto:
> 
> Groove 199
> Rhytm 399
> ...


 
  
 Do you have a link to the price list? I only see tokopedia.

 Btw, what about the "KING" Interlude by Heavenly Sounds too? Seems like a custom order TOTL.


----------



## Raketen

@ClieOS , did you do any burn in with the TKY2 or anything other than punching the foams? Just got mine in, seem good with the right music but not really entralled with them either.


----------



## music4mhell

ballog said:


> Jim from HCK on Ali is offering the Rose Masya for $99 and the special carbon fiber version for $114.


 what's special in carbon fibre version ?

is it masya/mojito or something else ?


----------



## dearyon

music4mhell said:


> what's special in carbon fibre version ?
> 
> is it masya/mojito or something else ?


 
 maybe carbon fibre is only a different finishing
 just like the one with rose mojito with sparkling blue and pink finishing


----------



## Tomasz2D

raketen said:


> @ClieOS , did you do any burn in with the TKY2 or anything other than punching the foams? Just got mine in, seem good with the right music but not really entralled with them either.


 
 Go rather for really extreme brain burn-in instead. Try to use TKY2 exclusively for longer time and do not use any other headphones during this time. It may grow on you slowly (at least it did on me). Still, as I have writen here before, you are right and TKY2 is not for all kinds of music.


----------



## music4mhell

dearyon said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > what's special in carbon fibre version ?
> ...


but it's a masya not mojito right ?


----------



## petan970

ballog said:


> Jim from HCK on Ali is offering the Rose Masya for $99 and the special carbon fiber version for $114.




The price is very tempting for me. Does anybody know if the quality of the 2pin connector is ok?


----------



## ballog

music4mhell said:


> but it's a masya not mojito right ?



Newest Rose Masya Special Version Carbon Fiber Panel Earbud Double Dynamic Earbud HIFI Flat Head Earphone With 2-pin Interface
 http://s.aliexpress.com/YBnYVF3a 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## Holypal

dearyon said:


> maybe carbon fibre is only a different finishing
> just like the one with rose mojito with sparkling blue and pink finishing


 
  
 Normal Rose Masya in Black

  
  
 Rose Masya in Cherry Red:

  
  
 Rose Masya Special Version Carbon Fiber:


----------



## vapman

While thats a pretty good deal on the masya. I am gonna have to hold off this time. Just have a hunch i won't like the sound of the masya.

...yes i am still using the qian39 but lately enjoying green ting with some DAPs or my phone.


----------



## Frederick Wang

emptymt said:


> LOL, I never heard this song, unique song, sounds like a Chinese song but sung in English with elements of Indonesia.
> Bengawan Solo is an Indonesian word


 
 You are absolutely right, the song is written in 1940 by Indonesian songwriter Gesang Martohartono and relyriced in English in the early 1960s, and sung by Chinese singer Rebecca Pan. 


msknight said:


> Apparently this was released on CD - Virgin ‎– 7243 8 50542 2 8


 
 Yes that is the OST of Wong Kar Wei's film "in the mood for love", released in 2000
 But the song dates back from 1960s


----------



## emptymt

frederick wang said:


> You are absolutely right, the song is written in 1940 by Indonesian songwriter Gesang Martohartono and relyriced in English in the early 1960s, and sung by Chinese singer Rebecca Pan.
> Yes that is the OST of Wong Kar Wei's film "in the mood for love", released in 2000
> But the song dates back from 1960s


 
 Lol, still got it!! haha


----------



## Frederick Wang

While we are still at songs, please forgive me for hijacking this thread...
 I have been switching back and forth between ER4s and E252
 For this song, E252 gives me a "being-there" illusion, whereas ER4s is more precise, more clinical, and Westenra's voice is more apathetic and more distant on the later. 
 I have never been familiarized with the audiophile parlance, does this make E252 fitting into the "fun" signature?


----------



## Connectz

Are the Rose Masya's any good? How do they sound compared to the Kids Ksc 75's?


----------



## vapman

connectz said:


> Are the Rose Masya's any good? How do they sound compared to the Kids Ksc 75's?


 
 Haven't heard the Masya. But it would not get a "champions" spot on the earbud list if it couldn't best the KSC 75. ClieOS seems to like it a lot and to get on the Champions list is no easy feat. I am debating getting it now that HCK is selling them at $99, but I had a Mojito in the past and thought the fit was too weird for me.
  
 FWIW i have had KSC 75's for over a decade, and most anything on the  "great" list can best a KSC 75.  However, I might go for a couple budget ones before hetting into the more expensive ones, as the good budget ones are a lot more capable than they might seem.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> However, I might go for a couple budget ones before hetting into the more expensive ones, as the good budget ones are a lot more capable than they might seem.


+1000


----------



## Sempenyi

frederick wang said:


> With old recordings such as this, it is right there...





 wow, this is one of the most legendary "keroncong" music in indonesia. my grandfather used to play this song in radio when i was a child.

 in case you have interest in original version

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amnpel6EpdU
  


danneq said:


> Hmmm... Which one IS the Heavenly Sounds flagship? I thought it was Cadenza...


 


audionewbi3 said:


> What?! Sifu you got them? Since when?!
> 
> 
> Do you have a link to the price list? I only see tokopedia.
> ...


 
  
 the maker seems to have tried in a lot of prototype lately. so confusing line up even for us in Indonesia
  


holypal said:


> Rose Masya Special Version Carbon Fiber:


 

 is it the same panasonic shell @ClieOS ?


----------



## ballog

vapman said:


> Haven't heard the Masya. But it would not get a "champions" spot on the earbud list if it couldn't best the KSC 75. ClieOS seems to like it a lot and to get on the Champions list is no easy feat. I am debating getting it now that HCK is selling them at $99, but I had a Mojito in the past and thought the fit was too weird for me.
> 
> FWIW i have had KSC 75's for over a decade, and most anything on the  "great" list can best a KSC 75.  However, I might go for a couple budget ones before hetting into the more expensive ones, as the good budget ones are a lot more capable than they might seem.


 
@vapman Could you list a few of those good budget earbuds bro?
 Really enjoyed my RX-1 with bass boost but unfortunately the left driver has gone bad. I am planning of getting another RX-1 as replacement but perhaps you could suggest an alternative in the $20-50 price range (i'm still holding off for a >$100 earbud). Btw already ordered a Qian39 based on your recommendations. Cheers.


----------



## vapman

ballog said:


> @vapman Could you list a few of those good budget earbuds bro?
> Really enjoyed my RX-1 with bass boost but unfortunately the left driver has gone bad. I am planning of getting another RX-1 as replacement but perhaps you could suggest an alternative in the $20-50 price range (i'm still holding off for a >$100 earbud). Btw already ordered a Qian39 based on your recommendations. Cheers.


 
  
 Monk+
 Qian39 - you already got it 
 TY Hi-Z 32 (popular although I don't like it a lot)
 RX-1, but you already had it.
 Seahf 32 only if you are a real treble head!!!
  
 I still need to try the SHE3800 but that seems to be popular. no idea if it sound different from an Edifier... which are OK but a little muddy for me.


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> ballog said:
> 
> 
> > @vapman Could you list a few of those good budget earbuds bro?
> ...


 
 No TP16 ?


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> No TP16 ?


 

 Never tried it, never bought it.
 Would try it out but not interested to buy it, don't feel like i would like it so i never got it...
  
 No boarseman because I don't like the sig much.


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > No TP16 ?
> ...


 
 Did you pull the trigger on Masya/ Shozy BK/ K500 ?


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> Did you pull the trigger on Masya/ Shozy BK/ K500 ?


 

 None 
  
 Not really interested in Masya, maybe K500 after some more reviews but not sure, but not interested in Shozy...


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Did you pull the trigger on Masya/ Shozy BK/ K500 ?
> ...


 

  I ordered all 3 plus ****  ... It's through hongkong post so will reach next week ...


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> I ordered all 3 plus ****  ... It's through hongkong post so will reach next week ...




I did get the **** because of the $8 sale, however whether i get either a masya or k500 depends on other reviews. So let us know how you like em


----------



## Sempenyi

music4mhell said:


> I ordered all 3 plus ****  ... It's through hongkong post so will reach next week ...


 
 all the the money is probably gone :v


----------



## music4mhell

sempenyi said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I ordered all 3 plus ****  ... It's through hongkong post so will reach next week ...
> ...


 
 Yes, buddy.. Money is going out like water 
 By the way i wanted to ask you something..
  
 Earbuds are still so famous in Indonesia ? or People use IEMs more.. I know there is a niche segment who are only for earbuds..
  
 But i am asking about general public.. is it IEM or Earbud ?


----------



## JASru

How do you get special price on Masya by HCK? You should pm him  saying you're from head-fi forum?)


----------



## music4mhell

jasru said:


> How do you get special price on Masya by HCK? You should pm him  saying you're from head-fi forum?)


 
 Add to cart, go to payment page, use other payment method and then come out.. it will ask do you want to cancel the payment, YES
  
 then message him, he can adjust the price now, and then pay through your default credit card..done


----------



## Sempenyi

music4mhell said:


> Yes, buddy.. Money is going out like water
> By the way i wanted to ask you something..
> 
> Earbuds are still so famous in Indonesia ? or People use IEMs more.. I know there is a niche segment who are only for earbuds..
> ...


 
  
 yes it's been famous at least since last years. but i cant say much about general people since i have been with earbud lover lately and it's pretty much not objective. the audio market "Warung Audio Kere Hore" is easily owned by earbud now but it's not that much like few months ago.

 the hype from elibuds sabia (now V3) and the others elibuds side line up is pretty much bringing the attention to earbud.


----------



## ballog

vapman said:


> Monk+
> Qian39 - you already got it
> TY Hi-Z 32 (popular although I don't like it a lot)
> RX-1, but you already had it.
> ...


 
 Thanks for the reply bro.
 Already got the Monk+, TY HiZ 32, Edifier H180. I always looking for feedbacks on higher impedance SeaHF & TY (preferable around $50) earbuds with similar signature to RX1.


----------



## music4mhell

sempenyi said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, buddy.. Money is going out like water
> ...


 
 Have you heard of Cypherus Audio earbuds ? How is the sound ?


----------



## vapman

ballog said:


> Thanks for the reply bro.
> Already got the Monk+, TY HiZ 32, Edifier H180. I always looking for feedbacks on higher impedance SeaHF & TY (preferable around $50) earbuds with similar signature to RX1.


 

 What aspect of rx1? because there is very little that sounds much like it IMO.
  
 Edit: Green Ting sounds like a less smooth, more aggressive RX1.


----------



## rockingthearies

Wish I could order the Rose Masya too the discount is really huge to pass on this deal and the earbuds look gorgeous. Unfortunately and fortunately? I already pulled the trigger on the K500 Ohms and my wallet sure needs time to replenish. Can't wait to get my hands on them


----------



## music4mhell

rockingthearies said:


> Wish I could order the Rose Masya too the discount is really huge to pass on this deal and the earbuds look gorgeous. Unfortunately and fortunately? I already pulled the trigger on the K500 Ohms and my wallet sure needs time to replenish. Can't wait to get my hands on them


 
 What about Shozy BK(Stardust) ?


----------



## JASru

Any info on how long the discount will last?


----------



## rockingthearies

music4mhell said:


> What about Shozy BK(Stardust) ?


 
 Well that can only go under my wishlist and not under my order list T.T


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Guess who came back after a month over at Shozy HK service center?


  
 To my surprise, the cable still remained the same as when I sent it over for repair! Just a slight oxidation!
 After owning the Cygnus for less than a year the left driver diaphragm began to developed problems but Penon fixed it under warranty(which I am glad).

 Will this incident possibly affect my image of Shozy (perhaps the future purchase of the BK)?
 I will not lie, but yes...this is a very expansive earbud and I would not expect it to fail within half a year of use (200+ hours).....
 Just like the Hifiman HM100 (Another story)......
  
 Still kudos to Penon and Shozy for repairing the Cygnus.


----------



## music4mhell

Just received TY650 and Rock Mucu Earbud.. copy of Bose


----------



## Danneq

For those in Europe, this is a pretty good price for Dunu Alpha 1...


----------



## Sempenyi

music4mhell said:


> Have you heard of Cypherus Audio earbuds ? How is the sound ?


 
 i never tried those from cypherus. but it's one of famous high end earbud before the demuns and edimuns hyped.

 they are not making earbud in large quantity since the base earbud is advance (or so called "pance" here) is really hard to found. super hidden gem.


----------



## music4mhell

sempenyi said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Have you heard of Cypherus Audio earbuds ? How is the sound ?
> ...


 
 yes, it;s quite expensive.. $200 excluding shipping 
  
 i will decide after hearing from @Danneq


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> yes, it;s quite expensive.. $200 excluding shipping
> 
> i will decide after hearing from @Danneq


 


 Still nothing.  

 Anyway, I'll post my impressions as soon as I have had time to listen to them. My impressions will be out of the box. According to Herry of Cypherus burn in time is 60-100 hours, but usually I just listen as the earbuds "mature". I cannot remember ever owning an earbud or headphone that changed that much that I started liking it after first having not liked it out of the box.

 My last expensive purchase before the QFred arrived last week - a pair of Dunu Alpha 1. Out of the box I really like the sound (with donut foams), but fit is awful. Dunu really needs to redesign them.
 Still, I like the combination of the warm bass and lower mids provided by the dynamic driver and the analytical upper mids and highs provided by the BA driver. Very unique sound. It might not make my top 10 list but as far as the sound goes I think I will keep them. It's just the fit that is horrible and after 30 minutes or so they start hurting my ears. The silicon rings and fins do not work at all, only donut foams work for me...


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > yes, it;s quite expensive.. $200 excluding shipping
> ...


 
 I am waiting desperately 
 Right now i am listening to HY650.. let see how it goes


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> I am waiting desperately
> Right now i am listening to HY650.. let see how it goes


 

 Perhaps you are waiting more desperately than I do?  

 I just worry that I won't like the sound, like I did with Celsus Gramo One. It is an excellent and almost reference grade earbud but it just didn't work for me. At least Gramo One is a bit known so that I could get most of my money back when I sold it. I might be more difficult to sell an earbud from a small DIY company that almost no one has heard of...

 But I'll let the QFreds "mature" as I listen to them and not try to judge them completely on first impressions (no matter if they are positive or negative).


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I am waiting desperately
> ...


 
 My intuition and 8th Sense is saying.. QFred will be Good


----------



## golov17

2016 Newest Rose Masya http://s.aliexpress.com/EraaiEFr


----------



## Willber

ballog said:


> Really enjoyed my RX-1 with bass boost but unfortunately the left driver has gone bad. I am planning of getting another RX-1 as replacement but perhaps you could suggest an alternative in the $20-50 price range (i'm still holding off for a >$100 earbud). Btw already ordered a Qian39 based on your recommendations. Cheers.


 
  
 Hi @ballog, it seems you have a poor memory, my friend. Have a look at these posts from the last 5 days:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/12390#post_12947657
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/12405#post_12947683
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/12405#post_12948082
  
 You even gave me reputations for 2 of them! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 They are beautifully built as well.
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1More-Piston-Pod-Earbud-Headphones-Headset-Earphone-with-Remote-Mic-Retail-Box-for-Xiaomi-Note-Mi/32660452812.html


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> My intuition and 8th Sense is saying.. QFred will be Good


 


 I hope so! I hope so for $200 + shipping!!!


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> My last expensive purchase before the QFred arrived last week - a pair of Dunu Alpha 1. Out of the box I really like the sound (with donut foams), but fit is awful. Dunu really needs to redesign them.


 
 Dunu Alpha 1 is also quite interesting because it is the most noise isolating earbud that I know. At least, if we can talk about any noise isolation in earbuds at all


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> Dunu Alpha 1 is also quite interesting because it is the most noise isolating earbud that I know. At least, if we can talk about any noise isolation in earbuds at all


 

 Might that noise isolation be from the blood circulating loudly because of the pain in my ears from the fit?


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> Might that noise isolation be from the blood circulating loudly because of the pain in my ears from the fit?


 
 Don't worry, it will pass... as your ears will grow bigger as you age


----------



## music4mhell

tomasz2d said:


> danneq said:
> 
> 
> > Might that noise isolation be from the blood circulating loudly because of the pain in my ears from the fit?
> ...


 
 he has already passed so many ages


----------



## JASru

I wonder, why 2-pin is  more wide-spread than MMCX. 
 MMCX looks so much easier to install, less fragile.
  
 Are there any practical reasons for it?


----------



## ClieOS

jasru said:


> I wonder, why 2-pin is  more wide-spread than MMCX.
> MMCX looks so much easier to install, less fragile.
> 
> Are there any practical reasons for it?


 
  
  
 MMCX was only invented a couple years ago then adapted for IEM use, where pins have been used all kind of electronics for ages - so there is the historical reason.
  
 Less fragile isn't a reason for using MMCX, as it is originally invented as a coax connector that is meant to be easily removable but not in frequent -  thus MMCX is actually much easier to fail when plug/unplug frequently than two pins, especially since MMCX is free-to-rotate and thus easier to develop bad connection / blind spot. On the other hand, 2 pins have had pretty good track record since the early days of custom IEM.


----------



## JASru

clieos said:


> MMCX was only invented a couple years ago then adapted for IEM use, where pins have been used all kind of electronics for ages - so there is the historical reason.
> 
> Less fragile isn't a reason for using MMCX, as it is originally invented as a coax connector that is meant to be easily removable but not in frequent -  thus MMCX is actually much easier to fail when plug/unplug frequently than two pins, especially since MMCX is free-to-rotate and thus easier to develop bad connection / blind spot. On the other hand, 2 pins have had pretty good track record since the early days of custom IEM.


 So if you swap cables, lets say, only when they are not working, MMCX wins? And the current state is more due to tradition than to technical limitations? Do I get it right?


----------



## ClieOS

jasru said:


> So if you swap cables, lets say, only when they are not working, MMCX wins? And the current state is more due to tradition than to technical limitations? Do I get it right?


 
  
 No, the fact that MMCX can freely rotate is a cause for bad connection in the long run, so I'll still choose 2 pins. That's why more and more manufacturers whom adapted MMCX purposely make it unrotatable with some kind of locking mechanism because they know it is a weak spot. They mostly just use MMCX out of popular demand, not because it is a better connector than 2 pins. 2 pins isn't perfect either, but lesser (or actually no) moving part to fail is itself a big plus mechanically.


----------



## JASru

clieos said:


> No, the fact that MMCX can freely rotate is a cause for bad connection in the long run, so I'll still choose 2 pins. That's why more and more manufacturers whom adapted MMCX purposely make it unrotatable with some kind of locking mechanism because they know it is a weak spot. They mostly just use MMCX out of popular demand, not because it is a better connector than 2 pins. 2 pins isn't perfect either, but lesser (or actually no) moving part to fail is itself a big plus mechanically.


 
 Out of your experience - what is the long run(on average) - month, year, several years?


----------



## Saoshyant

Ok, placing an order for the Masya Carbon Fiber.  I think I'm thoroughly a slave to earbuds as while I have IEMs I love, they never get grabbed first.  Unless I'm needing a full sized, I'm always using one of my earbuds, which reminds me of when I was younger as I always used earbuds, as they were awfully convenient to use.  At this point I feel like I'm developing a fairly decent earbud collection, and look forward to seeing what I think of the newest jewel.


----------



## music4mhell

jasru said:


> clieos said:
> 
> 
> > No, the fact that MMCX can freely rotate is a cause for bad connection in the long run, so I'll still choose 2 pins. That's why more and more manufacturers whom adapted MMCX purposely make it unrotatable with some kind of locking mechanism because they know it is a weak spot. They mostly just use MMCX out of popular demand, not because it is a better connector than 2 pins. 2 pins isn't perfect either, but lesser (or actually no) moving part to fail is itself a big plus mechanically.
> ...


 
 I will say 2 PINs.. more durable !


----------



## music4mhell

TY650 is a blend of Zen 2 tonality and Cygnus highs and lows 
 I am hearing from last 2 hours, i started enjoying it.. Nice ... Great value for money till now ...
  
 Who knows after some more hours burn in, it will be better/worse


----------



## Saoshyant

Price adjustment for the Masya was quite quick, at maybe 20 minutes for me.  I didn't even cancel the payment once I went to other payment options, I just put a note in the purchasing message and left it at the payment window, which has an option to refresh for price adjustment.  I'm hoping I enjoy the sound, but I'm kind of easy going in my tastes, so I don't see there being an issue.  Worst comes to worst, it only suits some of my music instead of most.


----------



## ClieOS

jasru said:


> Out of your experience - what is the long run(on average) - month, year, several years?


 
  
 I haven't had a failed 2 pins yet, but my first failed MMCX is from a Shure SE215 - a couple of months after I bought it (back when it was first released) and had seem minimum use (probably less than 50hrs in total, most of which was spent on burn-in). Since then, I have a couple of MMCX based IEM that develop blind spot (where you rotate the connector to a certain point where the audio will cut itself out).


----------



## music4mhell

saoshyant said:


> Price adjustment for the Masya was quite quick, at maybe 20 minutes for me.  I didn't even cancel the payment once I went to other payment options, I just put a note in the purchasing message and left it at the payment window, which has an option to refresh for price adjustment.  I'm hoping I enjoy the sound, but I'm kind of easy going in my tastes, so I don't see there being an issue.  Worst comes to worst, it only suits some of my music instead of most.


 
 I am on same boat like you  Desperately waiting for Masya, K500 and Shozy BK.


----------



## JASru

music4mhell said:


> I will say 2 PINs.. more durable !


 
 Well, the only MMCX I have is **** IEM and I have it for less than a month.
 I am using a cable that is kind of tight - it barely rotates, hope it lasts for long. Any way these were cheap.
  
 I am a bit more concerned about **** PT15 and incoming Rose IEM.
  
 Heh, gonna be carefull anyway.


----------



## JASru

clieos said:


> I haven't had a failed 2 pins yet, but my first failed MMCX is from a Shure SE215 - a couple of months after I bought it and had seem minimum use (probably less than 50hrs in total, most of which was spent on burn-in). Since then, I have a couple of MMCX based IEM that develop blind spot (where you rotate the connector to a certain point where the audio will cut itself out).


 
 So couple of month it is. The problem occurs with socket itself, not the cable, right?
 Thx for reply.


----------



## ClieOS

jasru said:


> So couple of month it is. The problem occurs with socket itself, not the cable, right?
> Thx for reply.


 
  
 Socket, the cable is fine.


----------



## ClieOS

sempenyi said:


> is it the same panasonic shell @ClieOS ?


 
  
 Masya doesn't use Panasonic shell anymore, but the basic design seems to remain the same.


----------



## Ira Delphic

ballog said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > Haven't heard the Masya. But it would not get a "champions" spot on the earbud list if it couldn't best the KSC 75. ClieOS seems to like it a lot and to get on the Champions list is no easy feat. I am debating getting it now that HCK is selling them at $99, but I had a Mojito in the past and thought the fit was too weird for me.
> ...


 
  
@ballog if you have a moment can you try the link in my signature to test your defective RX-1? I suspect that it will show where the problem is in your RX-1 in about a minute or two. I think we should have a way to test new earbuds for defects when they arrive, and this _may_ be the fastest way. But my hypothesis is not proven.


----------



## luckyeights

So the Rose mojito vs the rose masya.  If i understand previous statements the Mojito is closer to a one trick poney that is good for instrumental works while the masya is more well rounded and has better vocals?


----------



## kurtextrem

music4mhell said:


> I am on same boat like you  Desperately waiting for Masya, K500 and Shozy BK.


 
 Can't wait. You'll basically decide for me which one to get (including HP650)


----------



## Saoshyant

I wouldn't call the Mojito a one trick pony. It's got great detail & soundstage, respectable bass and the vocals are still decent. Vocally, it only feels lacking against a vocal specialist like Cygnus.


----------



## music4mhell

kurtextrem said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I am on same boat like you  Desperately waiting for Masya, K500 and Shozy BK.
> ...


 
 I am listening to HP650 from last 3 hours... Let me burn for 2/3 days..


----------



## luckyeights

saoshyant said:


> I wouldn't call the Mojito a one trick pony. It's got great detail & soundstage, respectable bass and the vocals are still decent. Vocally, it only feels lacking against a vocal specialist like Cygnus.


 
 Oh ok thank you. I was debating on if i should get the masya or mojito.  Have you listened to both by chance and could give me an idea on how they differ.  On the list they are both champions but the masya is half the cost of the mojito.  
  
 Right now i have the ty650s and i like them a lot however, they seem to lack in the lower end of the bass spectrum at least compared to my t-music (version1) buds.  Problem with them though is the mids are thin and recessed.  So back to searching for my dream bud.  I am hoping that the rose buds since they have a dedicated bass driver they can pull it off.


----------



## Saoshyant

Just ordered Masya today, so probably around a month or so.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

luckyeights said:


> Oh ok thank you. I was debating on if i should get the masya or mojito.  Have you listened to both by chance and could give me an idea on how they differ.  On the list they are both champions but the masya is half the cost of the mojito.
> 
> Right now i have the ty650s and i like them a lot however, they seem to lack in the lower end of the bass spectrum at least compared to my t-music (version1) buds.  Problem with them though is the mids are thin and recessed.  So back to searching for my dream bud.  I am hoping that the rose buds since they have a dedicated bass driver they can pull it off.


 
 The Mojito's bass reach very deep, cellos and bass drums gives you a sense of omph.
 I believe sir @vapman can testify.


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> The Mojito's bass reach very deep, cellos and bass drums gives you a sense of omph.
> I believe sir @vapman can testify.


 

 It reaches pretty deep, yes, but has no impact!
  Other buds are better choices if you want to *feel* the bass too and not just *hear* it... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
@luckyeights seriously consider using EQ. you will not get any bass from the 650 if not bass boost EQ'd... i  tried to make this clear in my review but it can really rumble and go ultra deep, you just need to boost the bass freqs.


----------



## Saoshyant

There are certainly bassier earbuds, but the Mojito does everything well, it just might not be forgiving at times.


----------



## luckyeights

vapman said:


> It reaches pretty deep, yes, but has no impact!
> Other buds are better choices if you want to *feel* the bass too and not just *hear* it...
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I do have them EQed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  The problem is if i boost it too much the rest of the frequency starts to sound like they are under water.  And its not really the amount its the fact that they dont extend as low as the tmusic buds.   The ty650 might reach down to 45hz while the tmusic buds are maybe an extra 10 or 12hz lower.  I mean the tmusics almost reach the point where its vibrating your ears with bass lol the ty650 just not reaching low enough.   
  
 Problem with the tmusic though is thin and mildly recessed mids.  So if i could find a bud with the extended lows of the tmusic with a similar rest of the spectrum to the ty650 id be golden.  If such a bud exists?


----------



## vapman

luckyeights said:


> I do have them EQed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You'll be like "lol no way" because of the price but seriously... qian39. try it.
 650 and qian39 is all i want to use for over a week now. (a little green ting now too, but that has no bass)


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

My Fareal 64ohm v2 has been dispatched. Now to wait...


----------



## haiku

It´s a mystery to me why the 1More Piston don´t get any love here, guys. Soundwise, they stomp all over my K´s. Yes, the K´s have a bit more glittery highs, but almost no bass compared to the piston. The bass of the piston is punchy, funky with a real good kick. The vocals of the piston are smooth and clear, while with the K´s they can be sibilant and nasal sounding. So for me, the piston is clearly more enjoyable and fun, plus it looks cooler, too.


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> It´s a mystery to me why the 1More Piston don´t get any love here, guys. Soundwise, they stomp all over my K´s. Yes, the K´s have a bit more glittery highs, but almost no bass compared to the piston. The bass of the piston is punchy, funky with a real good kick. The vocals of the piston are smooth and clear, while with the K´s they can be sibilant and nasal sounding. So for me, the piston is clearly more enjoyable and fun, plus it looks cooler, too.


my piston will reach in few days..
i bought after ur comments..k500 is also on the way..
let see how it competes


----------



## haiku

music4mhell said:


> my piston will reach in few days..
> i bought after ur comments..k500 is also on the way..
> let see how it competes


 

 Just enjoy!


----------



## Willber

haiku said:


> It´s a mystery to me why the 1More Piston don´t get any love here, guys. Soundwise, they stomp all over my K´s. Yes, the K´s have a bit more glittery highs, but almost no bass compared to the piston. The bass of the piston is punchy, funky with a real good kick. The vocals of the piston are smooth and clear, while with the K´s they can be sibilant and nasal sounding. So for me, the piston is clearly more enjoyable and fun, plus it looks cooler, too.


 

@haiku
 I have been been recommending the Piston, see my post here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/12690#post_12958508
  
@ballog
 The Piston that haiku mentions above are the EO320 that I have been suggesting to you.


----------



## golov17

How about sub-bass on the K's500, guys?


----------



## luckyeights

haiku said:


> It´s a mystery to me why the 1More Piston don´t get any love here, guys. Soundwise, they stomp all over my K´s. Yes, the K´s have a bit more glittery highs, but almost no bass compared to the piston. The bass of the piston is punchy, funky with a real good kick. The vocals of the piston are smooth and clear, while with the K´s they can be sibilant and nasal sounding. So for me, the piston is clearly more enjoyable and fun, plus it looks cooler, too.


 
 Interesting i thought someone on here said the K 500ohms were like the bass king, maybe not phrased exactly like that.  But I had thought from other posts that the k 500s had the best bass out of the champion earbuds any way?


----------



## haiku

golov17 said:


> How about sub-bass on the K's500, guys?


 

 On par with the piston. Just compared them. (I always have to chuckle when I read "subbass" and earbud. When I think of subbass, I think of a KZ ATE or something like it....  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## luckyeights

So do all the 1 more piston buds have mics and buttons or do they have one without.  Dont plan on using with cell phone.


----------



## haiku

luckyeights said:


> So do all the 1 more piston buds have mics and buttons or do they have one without.  Dont plan on using with cell phone.


 

 Yeah, they have, so what? I just don´t use it. It doesn´t influence the SQ.


----------



## Willber

luckyeights said:


> So do all the 1 more piston buds have mics and buttons or do they have one without.  Dont plan on using with cell phone.


 

 I haven't seen them without. I don't use my controller but it is quite slim and light so doesn't get in the way. It also helps to show right from left.


----------



## Willber

haiku said:


> luckyeights said:
> 
> 
> > So do all the 1 more piston buds have mics and buttons or do they have one without.  Dont plan on using with cell phone.
> ...


 
 Hi haiku, did you see my post to you above? You don't have to read it but it would be nice to know you've seen it. It sometimes seems like my posts are invisible...


----------



## haiku

willber said:


> Hi haiku, did you see my post to you above? You don't have to read it but it would be nice to know you've seen it. It sometimes seems like my posts are invisible...


 

 Yup, I´ve seen it.


----------



## Willber

haiku said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Hi haiku, did you see my post to you above? You don't have to read it but it would be nice to know you've seen it. It sometimes seems like my posts are invisible...
> ...


 
 Well, that's a start!


----------



## dearyon

haiku said:


> On par with the piston. Just compared them. (I always have to chuckle when I read "subbass" and earbud. When I think of subbass, I think of a KZ ATE or something like it....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 how about Seahf LD3.0 320 Ohm vs. EO320 in terms of bass punch and kick? which one hit the hardest and deepest?


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> How about sub-bass on the K's500, guys?


 
  
 One of the best I have heard, though I won't say 1MORE EO320 is as good to my ears. It isn't to say EO320 is bad in anyway - on the contrary, it is an really good all-arounder without much weakness to speak of, just not beyond the scope of 'the great' IMO.


----------



## kurtextrem

ClieOS just blocked the hype train from arriving, my wallet is glad


----------



## ClieOS

I'll still recommend EO320 for either as a beginner's choice if you don't quite know what to get or just simply as a backup pair to keep in the house though. It is a very solid buy and an big upgrade over the original EO303, probably a great gift choice to turn a few friends and family into earbuds addict as well


----------



## Willber

kurtextrem said:


> ClieOS just blocked the hype train from arriving, my wallet is glad


 

 It's all subjective. My recommendation of the EO320 (Piston) to @ballog was specifically in response to him wanting to replace his broken RX-1. I find the EO320 has similar mids and highs but much better bass. The soundstage is bigger as well. But each to his own.


----------



## Ira Delphic

kurtextrem said:


> ClieOS just blocked the hype train from arriving, my wallet is glad


 
  
 My wallet is happy! But the mic and controls look to be very solid on the EO320 - volume, next/prior track, etc. That's a benefit.


----------



## haiku

clieos said:


> One of the best I have heard, though I won't say 1MORE EO320 is as good to my ears. It isn't to say EO320 is bad in anyway - on the contrary, it is an really good all-arounder without much weakness to speak of, just not beyond the scope of 'the great' IMO.



Well, would be nice, if you could be a bit more specific. What does the K have to offer, which the Piston doesn't? And which gear so you use?


----------



## vapman

haiku said:


> It´s a mystery to me why the 1More Piston don´t get any love here, guys. Soundwise, they stomp all over my K´s. Yes, the K´s have a bit more glittery highs, but almost no bass compared to the piston. The bass of the piston is punchy, funky with a real good kick. The vocals of the piston are smooth and clear, while with the K´s they can be sibilant and nasal sounding. So for me, the piston is clearly more enjoyable and fun, plus it looks cooler, too.




Hows k's compared to the most bass heavy bud(s) you own?


----------



## ClieOS

haiku said:


> Well, would be nice, if you could be a bit more specific. What does the K have to offer, which the Piston doesn't? And which gear so you use?


 
  
 If I wasn't clear on my previous comment - it was regarding @golov17 question about K's 500ohm subass, with a side note to EO320. To explain further, I think EO320 is a good overall sounding package, but didn't quite have any particular wow factor to its sound, or perhaps another way of saying it will be that the best part of EO320 is that it doesn't have any particular short end. Where K's strength and what sets it apart are its rumbling deep end and an immersive / enveloping soundstage.
  
 My main listening gear these days are FiiO X7 (mostly AM3's single-ended output), ShanLing M1, Sony A15 (digital-out to OPPO HA-2), or FiiO X5II (digital-out to Chord Mojo). Don't really do much listening on desktop gears. But as far as portable gears go, I think it is fair to say I am quite happy with what I have.


----------



## vapman

clieos said:


> If I wasn't clear on my previous comment - it was regarding @golov17 question about K's 500ohm subass, with a side note to EO320. To explain further, I think EO320 is a good overall sounding package, but didn't quite have any particular wow factor to its sound, or perhaps another way of saying it will be that the best part of EO320 is that it doesn't have any particular short end. Where K's strength and what sets it apart are its rumbling deep end and an immersive / enveloping soundstage.
> 
> My main listening gear these days are FiiO X7 (mostly AM3's single-ended output), ShanLing M1, Sony A15 (digital-out to OPPO HA-2), or FiiO X5II (digital-out to Chord Mojo). Don't really do much listening on desktop gears. But as far as portable gears go, I think it is fair to say I am quite happy with what I have.


 

 2 questions for you sir.
  
 1. Does K's 500 bass have greater impact than the old TY/HA 400 ohm's?
 2. Do you ever use the Sony A15 with its built in headphone output? i was thinking of getting one....


----------



## Tomasz2D

willber said:


> It sometimes seems like my posts are invisible...


 
 Oh, I always read your posts. By the way, has anybody here got that new 1MORE EO320 already? )))))


----------



## purplesun

willber said:


> It's all subjective. My recommendation of the EO320 (Piston) to @ballog was specifically in response to him wanting to replace his broken RX-1. I find the EO320 has similar mids and highs but much better bass. The soundstage is bigger as well. But each to his own.


 

 Over at Taobao, they have a model which specifies Android-only remote (with less supplied foam covers), and another which has android/iOS remote. Which model do you have? Thanks.


----------



## kerulberul

does anyone have the taobao link for the k500?


----------



## Willber

purplesun said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > It's all subjective. My recommendation of the EO320 (Piston) to @ballog was specifically in response to him wanting to replace his broken RX-1. I find the EO320 has similar mids and highs but much better bass. The soundstage is bigger as well. But each to his own.
> ...


 
 AFAIK the Android-only one is the 2015 model EO303 which is reportedly lacking in bass and best avoided. I have the 2016 Android/IOS EO320. I got mine from here:
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1more-EO320-XiaoMi-Hybrid-In-Ear-Earphone-stereo-earbud-with-Remote-Mic-for-Xiaomi-Note-Redmi/32660452812.html


----------



## purplesun

willber said:


> AFAIK the Android-only one is the 2015 model EO303 which is reportedly lacking in bass and best avoided. I have the 2016 Android/IOS EO320. I got mine from here:


 
  
 That's what I suspect as well, as most sellers are claiming that the Android/iOS model has better SQ. As you said earlier, both models looks exactly the same. At 129 yuan, there's not much savings getting Andorid/iOS model from Taobao.


----------



## Willber

purplesun said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > AFAIK the Android-only one is the 2015 model EO303 which is reportedly lacking in bass and best avoided. I have the 2016 Android/IOS EO320. I got mine from here:
> ...


 
 When I got mine some AE sellers were advertising both versions (at about $17 and $23 respectively). Now they all seem to have only the later version.


----------



## golov17

kerulberul said:


> does anyone have the taobao link for the k500?


https://shop36124713.m.taobao.com/?shop_id=36124713&user_id=105826545#list


----------



## golov17

K's500 versions 1 vs 2? Difference?


----------



## kvad

Answer I got from HCK on the difference between 1 and 2:
_"... version 2 with more good cable and more good plug​!"_


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Quick cellphone picture of seven budget earbuds I just got, all costing under $5 USD.

Not sure if any will be any good, but I have a funny feeling the Aigo and Newsmy are the exact same, ha!


----------



## vapman

bloodypenguin said:


> Quick cellphone picture of seven budget earbuds I just got, all costing under $5 USD.
> 
> Not sure if any will be any good, but I have a funny feeling the Aigo and Newsmy are the exact same, ha!


 
 Is the one in the tin a QianYun?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> Is the one in the tin a QianYun?


 
  
 Not sure, it is this one:  https://world.taobao.com/item/39504951885.htm
  
 --


----------



## tinkertailor

bloodypenguin said:


> Not sure, it is this one:  https://world.taobao.com/item/39504951885.htm
> 
> --


 
 I like the sort of retro look the top image in this one has.


----------



## ClieOS

vapman said:


> 2 questions for you sir.
> 
> 1. Does K's 500 bass have greater impact than the old TY/HA 400 ohm's?
> 2. Do you ever use the Sony A15 with its built in headphone output? i was thinking of getting one....


 
  
 1. Haven't compared it directly with TY, but I consider it to be around same level among some of the deepest impact I have heard on earbuds, namely Zen 1 and ESP-01B.
  
 2. Sure I do. Nothing special about A15's headphone-out, but noting bad either. SQ wise, it is about the same level as that of iPod Nano 7 and FiiO X1, but not as powerful overall. As long as the headphone isn't very demanding, it will do just fine.


----------



## vapman

That reminds me, I wanted a ESP  back when you added em to the list. I wanna find em still, maybe on a mistertao order...


----------



## vapman

bloodypenguin said:


> Not sure, it is this one:  https://world.taobao.com/item/39504951885.htm
> 
> --


 

 Dang! It has to be. Scroll down to the "other models" after the pic of the earbuds with Asuka, and you'll see the Qian39's in there. I clicked it and the description of the 39's links back to the other models too. I think i'm finally motivated to do a Mistertao order since I would like to hear the Qian69's!
  
 Also, the qian25 they link to looks just like Nice HCK's Qian25 listing...


----------



## cingcut

golov17 said:


> K's500 versions 1 vs 2? Difference?


 
@ClieOS said in couple days ago. if i not wrong. v1 vs v2 different in cable, v2 more thicker than v1.


----------



## Sempenyi

golov17 said:


> K's500 versions 1 vs 2? Difference?


 
 it has different cable. and different plug (something like TY650 plug and viablue) 

 the current version only have unbalanced TRS 3.5mm plug


----------



## luckyeights

hmm so i ordered one of those Rose Masya special carbon fiber edition at headfi pricing.  But anyone else find it kind of odd that at retail it costs more than mojito?  Does it possibly have other changes besides the look?   I just find it hard to believe that adding a sliver of carbon fiber on the face doubles the cost.  
  
 It is one sexy looking bud though!  Probably the nicest looking bud iv ever seen.  Something about that all black look with that elegant silver cursive Rose lettering and the carbon fiber give it a look of something high class and deserving of attention.  I just hope it sounds as impressive as it looks.


----------



## luckyeights

Also I have been looking at a lot of pictures of the mojito.  So it looks like there is one driver in the part that goes in your ear and another driver in the part where their logo is.  That one in the back under the logo looks like its facing the wrong way ?  Anyone know how the sound from that driver reaches your ear?


----------



## ClieOS

luckyeights said:


> Also I have been looking at a lot of pictures of the mojito.  So it looks like there is one driver in the part that goes in your ear and another driver in the part where their logo is.  That one in the back under the logo looks like its facing the wrong way ?  Anyone know how the sound from that driver reaches your ear?




It is not the wrong way when it is wired in the right phase. Remember a dynamic driver transmits sound wave in both directions - front and back. The only concern here is that the phase must be in line for both drivers to not sound off.


----------



## haiku

clieos said:


> If I wasn't clear on my previous comment - it was regarding @golov17 question about K's 500ohm subass, with a side note to EO320. To explain further, I think EO320 is a good overall sounding package, but didn't quite have any particular wow factor to its sound, or perhaps another way of saying it will be that the best part of EO320 is that it doesn't have any particular short end. Where K's strength and what sets it apart are its rumbling deep end and an immersive / enveloping soundstage.
> 
> My main listening gear these days are FiiO X7 (mostly AM3's single-ended output), ShanLing M1, Sony A15 (digital-out to OPPO HA-2), or FiiO X5II (digital-out to Chord Mojo). Don't really do much listening on desktop gears. But as far as portable gears go, I think it is fair to say I am quite happy with what I have.


 

 Ok, thanks. Now I know where you´re coming from.
 The K´s were the reason, why I´ve changed from the X7 to my AK300/380Amp combo. For me, the X7 lacks the resolution, naturalness and cleanness of sound, which the K´s are capable to deliver. I have tried it with the AM1 and AM2, and also purchased the AM2A, but for me all of the modules always sound kinda "pre-eq´ed" if you will. And I just don´t like EQ. The AK´s can drive the K´s easily, not only when it comes to power, but they also have a lot of "headroom" left for better sound quality. All imo.
 Now, until the arrival of the Piston, I favoured the K´s to all my other earbuds, but for me the Piston not only outclass the K´s when it comes to sound balance, but I hear way less distortion at higher volumes, plus they also have better dynamics for me. When I really push both earbuds with my AK´s, the K´s distort pretty early, where the Piston still have a coherent soundscape.


----------



## haiku

vapman said:


> Hows k's compared to the most bass heavy bud(s) you own?


 

 Seahf LD3.0 400 Ohm still is a step up imo.


----------



## golov17

haiku said:


> Seahf LD3.0 400 Ohm still is a step up imo.


Ostry kc08t have big bass too


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> haiku said:
> 
> 
> > Seahf LD3.0 400 Ohm still is a step up imo.
> ...


 
 I will vouch for Ostry KC08, but only for Bass and Sub bass


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> I will vouch for Ostry KC08, but only for Bass and Sub bass


yep


----------



## ClieOS

haiku said:


> Ok, thanks. Now I know where you´re coming from.
> The K´s were the reason, why I´ve changed from the X7 to my AK300/380Amp combo. For me, the X7 lacks the resolution, naturalness and cleanness of sound, which the K´s are capable to deliver. I have tried it with the AM1 and AM2, and also purchased the AM2A, but for me all of the modules always sound kinda "pre-eq´ed" if you will. And I just don´t like EQ. The AK´s can drive the K´s easily, not only when it comes to power, but they also have a lot of "headroom" left for better sound quality. All imo.
> Now, until the arrival of the Piston, I favoured the K´s to all my other earbuds, but for me the Piston not only outclass the K´s when it comes to sound balance, but I hear way less distortion at higher volumes, plus they also have better dynamics for me. When I really push both earbuds with my AK´s, the K´s distort pretty early, where the Piston still have a coherent soundscape.




I hold an opposite opinion. I have listened to all of AK line up and most of them sound colored to me one way or the other. The one that behaves better tends to be way overpriced, not to mention most of them don't measure particularly great.

I don't listen to either K or EO320 to anywhere near distortion level, though I won't say I listen to them at very low volume either.


----------



## haiku

clieos said:


> I hold an opposite opinion. I have listened to all of AK line up and most of them sound colored to me one way or the other. The one that behaves better tends to be way overpriced, not to mention most of them don't measure particularly great.


 
  

 Yeah, it´s a matter of taste and shows, why we rank earbuds differently. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 (PS: I still have the X7 as a backup, just in case there should be trouble with the AK´s in the future.....)


----------



## Raketen

I still haven't found a source I prefer to A17 or A17+Amp, in two years of trying various things, go figure h34r: It was really nice w/ cm707.

Shozy Alien does some black magic with my dynamic driver earphones though, and w/ an amp probably my favorite combo with Zen 2 so far.... I really ought to try Shozy earbuds soon.

Geek Out V2 balanced out seems good but I don't have any balanced terminted earbuds... TKY2 not too bad out of the single end though.


----------



## Holypal

raketen said:


> I still haven't found a source I prefer to A17 or A17+Amp, in two years of trying various things, go figure
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 A reason I like earbuds/earphones with detectable cable, is that I can buy a balanced cable for them.


----------



## Raketen

holypal said:


> A reason I like earbuds/earphones with detectable cable, is that I can buy a balanced cable for them.




Yeah my only balanced cable is MMCX (uggh) so I guess I should get some MMCX buds. Though I do have a single end adapter and some Red Green level soldering ability ...


----------



## music4mhell

Burning the TY 650 from yesterday


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> Burning the TY 650 from yesterday


----------



## music4mhell

Who all own TY650 other than @vapman ?


----------



## luedriver

I just realized the wiring on my philips she3200 is wrong, (left is right, right is left), having second thoughts if this is genuine and not fake, I bought it kinda cheap from ebay in a non-descript package, similar to the one philips sh33800 comes in
  
 I bought them here (same seller, different ad)
  
 they sound pretty nice though, I don't think they are fake, just the wiring is wrong, they have a nice deep bass
  
 just a fyi


----------



## luckyeights

music4mhell said:


> Who all own TY650 other than @vapman ?


 
 I own a pair.


----------



## music4mhell

luckyeights said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Who all own TY650 other than @vapman ?
> ...


 
 You completed the burn in process ?


----------



## JASru

I keep listening to TP-16 for a long time and I should note that I enjoy them a lot more than Tomahawk and TY-150, probably on par with RX-1.

There is no discomfort and the tonal balance is just right. Foamless they are so good. RX-1 is quite genre specific, but this one fits almost everything ( with exception of sludge metal, so far).
My second pair arrived at post office today.
 
I probably should go for EO320 to test another supposedly all-rounder in this price range.


----------



## luckyeights

music4mhell said:


> You completed the burn in process ?


 
 I would say I have about 70-80 hours on them roughly.


----------



## music4mhell

luckyeights said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > You completed the burn in process ?
> ...


 
 I am m done may be around 20 hours..
 How do you find the sound ?


----------



## Townyj

jasru said:


> I keep listening to TP-16 for a long time and I should note that I enjoy them a lot more than Tomahawk and TY-150, probably on par with RX-1.
> 
> There is no dsicomfort and the tonal balance is just right. Foamless they are so good. RX-1 is quite genre specific, but this one fits almost everything ( with exception of sludge metal, so far).
> My second pair arrived at post office today.
> ...


 

 My new pair arrived today aswell  when i get home tomorrow i will give them a test before putting them away in a safe spot.


----------



## ld100

jasru said:


> I keep listening to TP-16 for a long time and I should note that I enjoy them a lot more than Tomahawk and TY-150, probably on par with RX-1.
> 
> There is no dsicomfort and the tonal balance is just right. Foamless they are so good. RX-1 is quite genre specific, but this one fits almost everything ( with exception of sludge metal, so far).
> My second pair arrived at post office today.
> ...


 
  
 Yes. I am also preferring TP-16 to Tomahawk and RX-1. They are very good for the price!


----------



## luckyeights

music4mhell said:


> I am m done may be around 20 hours..
> How do you find the sound ?


 
 I like them a lot, I feel they have a very balanced sound.  They dont seem to favor any particular frequency range and they eq decent enough if you want to boost a particular area to add your own flavor.   I feel they do not extend as far on low end as my tmusic buds. (but tmusics have their own issues with mids)   Mids and vocals are good just a bit of lushness/warmth to fill out vocals so they dont sound thin but i wouldn't call these warm or lush buds.  Highs are good no sibilance whats so ever in fact no sibilance in any frequency range for that matter.  The highs extended well enough but they may lack that extra sparkle on the high end some people are looking for.  
  
 Whats unique to these buds at least for me is that they are one of the few headphones/earbuds iv owned that does not have some sort of harshness or element that is fatiguing.  Typically there is some frequency in some sort of music you listen to on one set of headphones that will either make you feel fatigued or give you a head ache or something if you listen to it long enough.  These dont have that they are very smooth buds. 
  
 Changes from new to burn in:  I would say the majority of changes from burn in are in separation and sound stage.  Instrument and vocal separation improves from burn in and the sound stage opens up.  I didnt really notice much change as far as frequency response or over all sound. 
  
 I would call the ty650 a very balanced and well rounded earbud.


----------



## haiku

jasru said:


> I keep listening to TP-16 for a long time and I should note that I enjoy them a lot more than Tomahawk and TY-150, probably on par with RX-1.
> 
> There is no discomfort and the tonal balance is just right. Foamless they are so good. RX-1 is quite genre specific, but this one fits almost everything ( with exception of sludge metal, so far).
> My second pair arrived at post office today.
> ...


 

 Make sure you get the original!
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqyG5k2UejA


----------



## music4mhell

luckyeights said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I am m done may be around 20 hours..
> ...


 
 I agrees most of what you said.. i do agree that it lacks the high sparkle.. overall i like this earbud..
 i will share my opinion after 100 hours burn in..
  
 In short i have said it before TY650 is a blend of Zen 2 and Cygnus...


----------



## luedriver

music4mhell said:


> Who all own TY650 other than @vapman ?


 
 still waiting for them to come
  
 just saw that they only just left hong kong today 6-7 days after ordering them from penonaudio (but that is expected as they said it would take 10-15 working days)


----------



## music4mhell

luedriver said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Who all own TY650 other than @vapman ?
> ...


 
 You will love it


----------



## luedriver

music4mhell said:


> You will love it


 
 well I already like the Cygnus a lot, so as I have read that this will combine its strengths with the zen 2.0, I feel like I made the right choice, even though it's too soon for me to say that, but I am hopeful


----------



## Saoshyant

As with many Head-fiers, I have a pretty large library on my mSD card of albums I might not have listened to in several years, especially as my options grow.  I realized one of the albums I loved a dozen or so years ago has gone unlistened to in quite some time, so I grabbed a pair of earbuds and turned it on.  I am realizing it's before I discovered Head-Fi since I last listened to this album, because of the huge smile on my face as I hear new aspects to the music I still remember well (murdered a cd from excessive use in car.)  It just goes to show what a decent setup can accomplish even for something you know inside and out, or thought you did at least.  This post brought to you by SeaHF 320 & LG V10.


----------



## music4mhell

saoshyant said:


> As with many Head-fiers, I have a pretty large library on my mSD card of albums I might not have listened to in several years, especially as my options grow.  I realized one of the albums I loved a dozen or so years ago has gone unlistened to in quite some time, so I grabbed a pair of earbuds and turned it on.  I am realizing it's before I discovered Head-Fi since I last listened to this album, because of the huge smile on my face as I hear new aspects to the music I still remember well (murdered a cd from excessive use in car.)  It just goes to show what a decent setup can accomplish even for something you know inside and out, or thought you did at least.  This post brought to you by SeaHF 320 & LG V10.


 
 Cheers 
 I am 10 months old in Headfi and i am really enjoying these earbuds.. i feel like as if i have found a treasure 
  
 New discovery every month with minimal cost (Compare to highend IEMs like IE800/SE846/JH aduio/Weston etc etc)


----------



## luckyeights

music4mhell said:


> I agrees most of what you said.. i do agree that it lacks the high sparkle.. overall i like this earbud..
> i will share my opinion after 100 hours burn in..
> 
> In short i have said it before TY650 is a blend of Zen 2 and Cygnus...


 
 What aspects of each does it take, i dont own a Cygnus or zen 2 but have been interested in getting them.  How would you compare all three?


----------



## Ira Delphic

luckyeights said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I agrees most of what you said.. i do agree that it lacks the high sparkle.. overall i like this earbud..
> ...


 
  
 According to one respected earbud ranking list here on Head-Fi, the Auglamour RX-1 is rated higher than the Cygnus (just above it). You may want to start with that?


----------



## music4mhell

luckyeights said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I agrees most of what you said.. i do agree that it lacks the high sparkle.. overall i like this earbud..
> ...


 
 I will say Tonality is almost like Zen2. Rest i will share after full burn in and careful listening.. Short impressions sometimes fade away with time


----------



## music4mhell

ira delphic said:


> luckyeights said:
> 
> 
> > music4mhell said:
> ...


 
 That's why i ordered 2 more RX-1 for a back up


----------



## tintheman

Hello everyone, just want to share my feeling on this new earbud I got, I was surfing in Aliexpress and saw this item and I decided to try it. It was advertised that it will also massage your jawbone with its vibration due to its strange shape. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-In-ear-Earphone-Super-Bass-3-5mm-Earbuds-Bone-Conduction-Acoustic-Vibration-Massage-Care-Earphones/32718994019.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.Mj7YUR
  
 When I received it, I didn't expect much from the sound but the sound is good or as least to me as good as Monk+ plus the vibration on the part gave a new sensation when the sound hit the bass. I am not very good at describing the sound signature but it's very musical with the new vibrating sensation. I thought I will share this to everyone that might want to try something with this new added feature. Maybe be someone here also ordered this before could help me describing this product. It is definitely new to me. On a side note, I got this along with 1More EO320 but I was so intrigued with this one and kept listening to it. Just want to clarify one thing though, EO320 is also good but kind of mix with other good earbud but this one kind of stand out, hence this post. Sorry for the long post.


----------



## Karl2009

golov17 said:


> https://shop36124713.m.taobao.com/?shop_id=36124713&user_id=105826545#list


 

 Any seller in Aliexpress?


----------



## luckyeights

ira delphic said:


> According to one respected earbud ranking list here on Head-Fi, the Auglamour RX-1 is rated higher than the Cygnus (just above it). You may want to start with that?


 
 I have the rx1 and i dont like them.  They dont have any bass, they are a very mid centric earbud.   Mids are good and detailed, the mids are also forward on these buds.  Highs are good and detailed as well not sibilant. I cant use them as music lacks that fullness or completeness without the bass.   These are very mid centric earbuds and they are good at it which is why they are probably where they are on the list.  They specialize at something and do it well they are just not for me =/.


----------



## Ira Delphic

luckyeights said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > According to one respected earbud ranking list here on Head-Fi, the Auglamour RX-1 is rated higher than the Cygnus (just above it). You may want to start with that?
> ...


 
  
 Interesting just how high on the list. My guess is that if quantified it is the best "value" - bang for the buck - on that ranking, but not everyone likes the sound signature! Detail, high resolution of the sound is important to me. I'd give it a try but I have some earbuds arriving via epacket.
  
 I have high hopes for the graphene membrane driver earbud that will leave all other earbuds in the dust! /jk


----------



## golov17

karl2009 said:


> Any seller in Aliexpress?


 2016 New K's Earphone 500 ohm Balanced High Impedance In Ear Earphone Earbud 500 ohms Earbud Flat Head Plug Earplugs
 http://s.aliexpress.com/yimqe6bA

Hot K's Earphone 500 ohm Balanced High Impedance In Ear Earphone Earbud 500 ohms Earbud Flat Head Plug Earplugs Kill Monk Earbud
 http://s.aliexpress.com/Jv6FbQzi


----------



## haiku

golov17 said:


> 2016 New K's Earphone 500 ohm Balanced High Impedance In Ear Earphone Earbud 500 ohms Earbud Flat Head Plug Earplugs
> http://s.aliexpress.com/yimqe6bA
> 
> Hot K's Earphone 500 ohm Balanced High Impedance In Ear Earphone Earbud 500 ohms Earbud Flat Head Plug Earplugs Kill Monk Earbud
> http://s.aliexpress.com/Jv6FbQzi


 
  

 Old stuff. I´m about to order the new 64Ohm, which according to Mr. K himself easily outclasses the 500Ohm version. Hehe....


----------



## fleasbaby

...I should have a pair of the Shozy Stardust/BK coming in in the next week or so. Saw them on @ClieOS list (with a high ranking)...anyone else getting/have a pair?


----------



## Brian Coffey

haiku said:


> Old stuff. I´m about to order the new 64Ohm, which according to Mr. K himself easily outclasses the 500Ohm version. Hehe....


 
 Link for these, please


----------



## golov17

haiku said:


> Old stuff. I´m about to order the new 64Ohm, which according to Mr. K himself easily outclasses the 500Ohm version. Hehe....


 http://s.aliexpress.com/zIJJV736


----------



## haiku

golov17 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/zIJJV736


 
 Ooops, little mistake on my part. Of course, Mr. K meant it easily outclasses the Monk, not the 500 Ohm!


----------



## Tomasz2D

haiku said:


> Old stuff. I´m about to order the new 64Ohm, which according to Mr. K himself easily outclasses the 500Ohm version. Hehe....


 
  
 On the left K's64 and on the right K's500. Do you mean that one on the left?


----------



## haiku

tomasz2d said:


> On the left K's64 and on the right K's500. Do you mean that one on the left?


 
 Yeah, but the balanced silver cable version.


----------



## music4mhell

fleasbaby said:


> ...I should have a pair of the Shozy Stardust/BK coming in in the next week or so. Saw them on @ClieOS
> list (with a high ranking)...anyone else getting/have a pair?


mine has shipped..will reach next week most probably


----------



## dearyon

tomasz2d said:


> On the left K's64 and on the right K's500. Do you mean that one on the left?


 
 that is K's 500 version 1?
 If I order K's 500, I will probably order that version too


----------



## haiku

This is also excellent workmanship. There´s something about beryllium drivers that continues to wow me. Maybe it´s the effortlessness of the sound, hmmm....
  
 https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1047983878614345.1073741829.1047439408668792&type=3


----------



## Tomasz2D

dearyon said:


> that is K's 500 version 1?
> If I order K's 500, I will probably order that version too


 
  
 Yes, standard version.
  


haiku said:


> Yeah, but the balanced silver cable version.


 
 You have frightened me first that you mean K's500, later I noticed you meant Monk. OK, if we agree that Toneking TP16 is a level-up from Monk Plus, then K's64 is maybe at TP16 level or maybe somewhere between Monk Plus and TP16. Depends on which signature you will like more. K's64 is flatter with more congested mids and lighter bass than TP16.


----------



## haiku

tomasz2d said:


> Yes, standard version.
> 
> You have frightened me first that you mean K's500, later I noticed you meant Monk. OK, if we agree that Toneking TP16 is a level-up from Monk, then K's64 is maybe at TP16 level or maybe somewhere between Monk and TP16. Depends on which signature you will like more. K's64 is flatter with more congested mids and lighter bass than TP16.


 

 Agreed.


----------



## Ira Delphic

tomasz2d said:


> You have frightened me first that you mean K's500, later I noticed you meant Monk. OK, if we agree that Toneking TP16 is a level-up from Monk Plus, then K's64 is maybe at TP16 level or maybe somewhere between Monk Plus and TP16. Depends on which signature you will like more. K's64 is flatter with more congested mids and lighter bass than TP16.


 
  
 Maybe...only a blind test would let us know for certain. But blind test discussion is for the lab, not here. I know that my MP driven with my LG V10 is pretty amazing! So the DAP is a huge factor as others have mentioned.


----------



## vapman

I didnt realize K made a 64 ohm, curious...


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> I didnt realize K made a 64 ohm, curious...


 also 800 Ohm (300 usd)


----------



## springbay

LOL, Jim adjusted the price for the K's Earphone 64 ohm within a minute. I suppose these will not come with the fancy wooden box and leather strap from the product picture.​


----------



## luckyeights

you know after playing around modding a couple of monks i have come to a conclusion.  The way a speaker sounds (sound stage, clarity, balance, warmness) regardless of what its in (earbud, headphone, desktop speaker) depends more on tuning (housing, dampening, materials in front of driver ect)  than the actual driver used.  And just to prove my point there are a lot of buds out there that are just re-tuned cheap buds and they sound like high end buds.
  
 So its sad that the cheap buds are gimped due to bad tuning.  I just wish i knew how to properly tune them so i could make and sell modded monks $$$$


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> also 800 Ohm (300 usd)


 





  


luckyeights said:


> you know after playing around modding a couple of monks i have come to a conclusion.  The way a speaker sounds (sound stage, clarity, balance, warmness) regardless of what its in (earbud, headphone, desktop speaker) depends more on tuning (housing, dampening, materials in front of driver ect)  than the actual driver used.  And just to prove my point there are a lot of buds out there that are just re-tuned cheap buds and they sound like high end buds.
> 
> So its sad that the cheap buds are gimped due to bad tuning.  I just wish i knew how to properly tune them so i could make and sell modded monks $$$$


 

 this is very true, i have been wanting to learn how to properly re-tune for a while...


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > I didnt realize K made a 64 ohm, curious...
> ...


i am intersted to buy..


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> i am intersted to buy..


 

 damn dude, you need to wait for some buds to get delivered!


----------



## luckyeights

vapman said:


> damn dude, you need to wait for some buds to get delivered!


 
 i agree but mostly just because i am jealous.....


----------



## vapman

luckyeights said:


> i agree but mostly just because i am jealous.....


 

 careful now, people love to buy buds to spite others


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > i am intersted to buy..
> ...


i was about to spend $1K on focal elear..i will skip that and will spend on Earbuds...


----------



## mochill

Just ordered the k'earphone 64ohm silver for 8dollar


----------



## Tomasz2D

I did some A/B and K's64 is around Monk Plus really. I also checked this at the same time:
  
 Bass !!!!! (more >less)
 Elibuds Sabia v2 > TY Hi-Z HP-32 32 Ohm > Toneking TP16 > K's64/Monk Plus


----------



## vapman

I suppose if K's 64 is that cheap, it makes sense that it's near the Monk Plus on quality.


----------



## Ira Delphic

vapman said:


> I suppose if K's 64 is that cheap, it makes sense that it's near the Monk Plus on quality.


 
  
 He's only considering bass in that post...and bass isn't everything.


----------



## vapman

ira delphic said:


> He's only considering bass in that post...and bass isn't everything.


 

 Oh whoops, I thought he meant overall quality and not just bass. Well, it's cheap enough to be worth taking a risk on...


----------



## Fabi

mochill said:


> Just ordered the k'earphone 64ohm silver for 8dollar


 
 Done


----------



## mochill

nice
  


fabi said:


> mochill said:
> 
> 
> > Just ordered the k'earphone 64ohm silver for 8dollar
> ...


----------



## tinkertailor

where do you order that?


----------



## mochill

pm me


----------



## vapman

tinkertailor said:


> where do you order that?


 
 I'm assuming Nice HCK...
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/N-K-s-Earphone-64-ohm-Balanced-High-Impedance-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud-64-ohms-Earbud/1825606_32757568153.html
  
 $8 with head fi discount.


----------



## mochill

+1 , just message them that you are from headfi


----------



## fairx

K 64 ohm looks like it use kz cable ? If it really is man that's one messy sticky cable


----------



## vapman

fairx said:


> K 64 ohm looks like it use kz cable ? If it really is man that's one messy sticky cable


 

 looks like the KZ cable except for the 3.5mm connector but otherwise yeah, i thought it looked like KZ cable...
  the white one seems to have a different (silver?) cable


----------



## Ira Delphic

It get's less sticky over time and the 3.5mm connector looks good. I just ordered the silver.


----------



## Danneq

Now to tease @music4mhell a bit...

 Today I received this:

  

 Inside this little chap was hiding:

  

  

 The QFreds came with normal thickness foams on them (white on right and dark gray on left):

  
 I quickly changed to thin Monk+ foams...



 Blox TM7 greets its new friend QFred.



 Out of the box I noticed that QFred is not bass heavy and that mids are in focus. I did not notice much deep sub bass and with regular foams I felt like there was a slight mid bass bump that I was not too crazy about. In a way that reminded me of Zen 2 where mid bass and mids are forward but there's not much deep bass.

 Anyway, I listened to them more closely with Monk+ foams and they have definite potential to make it to my top 5 list. I think they would make @ClieOS champions list without any problems.

 They might change a bit after 60-100 hours of use, which is the recommended burn in time, but out of the box I sort of see them as a person child of Blox TM7 and AuGlamour RX-1. If you take the excellent presentation and instrument placement and separation of Blox TM7 and put it together with the forward mids of RX-1 you might get a picture of the sound (though much better bass than RX-1). Shozy Cygnus might also be a good comparison but with a slightly less warm sound but much much better 3D soundstage and treble extension.

 Music genres such as metal can become a bit too forward with the focus on mids but more calm music like pop sounds great on QFred. Right now I'm listening to old Kate Bush and it sounds very very good.

 Are they worth $200? Well, fresh out of the box I like them more than Celsus Gramo One, which cost $249. If QFred were manifactured in greater numbers perhaps around $150 would be a resonable price.
 I'm definitely considering getting CampFred as well!


 Ah! And the cable will oxidize in time just as the one on Cygnus. However this was included:


----------



## vapman

@Danneq What kind of crazy shenanigans did you have to go through to buy those QFreds? I wanna try the other Freds too...


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> @Danneq What kind of crazy shenanigans did you have to go through to buy those QFreds? I wanna try the other Freds too...


 

 I just had to get hold of Herry of Cypherus Audio X. That could be done by contacting him on the Cypherus Facebook page. The big problem was getting $240 but I got around that sum from selling my old Audio Technica buds. Those babies needed a new owner anyway since I wasn't using them much anymore.

 BTW, now I tried connecting my iRiver H140 to my Cayin C5 and well... Right said QFred! Amplification opens the soundstage up more and gives them more sub bass.


----------



## Ira Delphic

By the way... when you get a new earbud (or IEM, headphone, etc.) there's a very quick way to uncover potential driver problems. See my signature - the tone generator (I am not affiliated with it in any way).
  
 I had a recent PM conversation with a forum member, suggesting that he try it with his issue, this is what he said:
  
_Dang! This test is ruthless. Just found that one of the driver of my original Monk too rattles at a lower frequency than the RX1 (around 80) but it still listenable for normal music. The Monk Plus is fine even to very low frequencies. Now I'm afraid to test my other earbuds. Like you said this tool is great for testing new purchases._
  
 After months of using a headphone I tried a bunch of things to pin down an exact problem with the driver. The seller replaced it reluctantly and I had pretty substantial proof.
  
 Try one channel at a time and test the entire spectrum. Also a hearing test to lol!
  
 Give it a try. I may start a thread on this elsewhere.


----------



## Danneq

Both the QFred and, to my great relief, TM7 passed the test. I do not dare to test my vintage Sony and Aiwas...


----------



## ballog

ira delphic said:


> By the way... when you get a new earbud (or IEM, headphone, etc.) there's a very quick way to uncover potential driver problems. See my signature - the tone generator (I am not affiliated with it in any way).
> 
> I had a recent PM conversation with a forum member, suggesting that he try it with his issue, this is what he said:
> 
> ...



Thats so true! I am the one who PM'ed with Ira Delphic. Today I tested one of my two pairs of TY HiZ 32 and one of the driver started resonating lightly at a very low frequency around 30hz. Though it sounded fine for normal music. I don't know if its a valid scientific test for drivers but it sure confirmed a big flaw with my RX1 (this one rattled like crazy). Makes you think about the intrinsic quality of cheap/affordable earbuds! My RX1 looked like a superb deal but not so much now when I have ordered a replacement pair. Of my 2 pairs of original Monk one had strong channel imbalance (unuseable) and now i'm so sad (my favorite headphone/earbud for classic vocal jazz by far) to find that my last pair may have issues.


----------



## vapman

Guys who say T-Music goes lower than TY 650:
  
 1. how much are you EQ'ing up the bass boost starting at 0hz and ending below 120hz?
 2. T-Music v1 or v2?
 3. Amped or not?
  
 I only ever owned the v1, it is now with @BloodyPenguin, but I definitely did not think the T-Music went that low or deep at all. i would use it and switch to the Monk Plus and have much more bass all around with the same eq settings and amp.
  
 


Spoiler: My EQ, once again, spoilered for those who don't want to see it or get sick seeing it


----------



## Danneq

Haha! I usually boost up to 80Hz. On Rockbox I usually boost 20Hz with 3 or 4 dB, then 40Hz with 2 dB, then 60Hz with 1dB and then 80Hz with 0,5. That gives me some sub bass on my earbuds (VE Zen 1 excluded since it has got more than enough sub bass).

 I have never gone warpdrive with 23dB (!) at 30Hz...


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> *I have never gone warpdrive with 23dB (!) at 30Hz...*


 
 I like this term. warp drive bass! I would consider my boost to be roughly equivalent to warp 9.975.
  
 Keep in mind if you're going to add 23dB you probably need to lower the pre-gain, which on mine is set to about -16. Thus you would actually be able to get the same boost quantity not touching the pre-gain and applying a 7dB bass boost, However my main reason for lowering the pre-gain is so I can turn up my amp higher and use more power to get the same listening level. So i might turn up my amp higher but not be murdering my eardrums. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 OT, but I'm reminded of a particular synthesizer I wanted badly as a teenager from your comment.... you'll enjoy the pun.
,


----------



## ld100

I still can't decide on a desktop headphone amp. Modjo and iFi have been suggested by ClieOS, but I am not sure I want portables or semi portables... Or maybe I do... What are you guys using to drive earbuds from your computers? Just want to have few more options to research...


----------



## Townyj

ld100 said:


> I still can't decide in a desktop headphone amp. Modjo and IFi have been suggested by ClieOS
> , but I am not sure I want postables or semi portables... Or maybe I do... What are you guys using to drive earbuds from your computers? Just want to have few more options to research...




I owned the mojo and found it highly overated. Look at the DF Red or Black as options aswell. Plenty of options that are cheaper


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> ...but out of the box I sort of see them as a person child of Blox TM7 and AuGlamour RX-1. If you take the excellent presentation and instrument placement and separation of Blox TM7 and put it together with the forward mids of RX-1 you might get a picture of the sound (though much better bass than RX-1). Shozy Cygnus might also be a good comparison but with a slightly less warm sound but much much better 3D soundstage and treble extension.


 
 Hmmm... sounds good. Besides it seems like I am compatible with Indonesian earbuds. Maybe just because:


----------



## Danneq

And "Tack" in Swedish means "thank you".

 Tak?
 Tak!
 Tack!


----------



## vapman

ld100 said:


> I still can't decide in a desktop headphone amp. Modjo and IFi have been suggested by ClieOS, but I am not sure I want postables or semi portables... Or maybe I do... What are you guys using to drive earbuds from your computers? Just want to have few more options to research...


 

 I wholeheartedly endorse a USB AKM or ESS based DAC run into any amp you like. A lot of my favorite amps are portable. The bMac I took the 9V battery out of and only run it off of AC power now. I also have some replacement opamps on the way as I have not messed with opamp rolling on it yet.
  
 I used to use Garage 1217 tube and solid state amps, both with awesome results. They have built in selectable output resistance so you can always raise the output impedance so you can have more control with the volume knob as opposed to having an unusably delicate range of usable volume.


----------



## ld100

townyj said:


> I owned the mojo and found it highly overated. Look at the DF Red or Black as options aswell. Plenty of options that are cheaper


 
  
 I have DF Back. I like the sound. Like not love. And I do not like that it has no volume control.


----------



## Holypal

ld100 said:


> I still can't decide on a desktop headphone amp. Modjo and iFi have been suggested by ClieOS
> , but I am not sure I want portables or semi portables... Or maybe I do... What are you guys using to drive earbuds from your computers? Just want to have few more options to research...




Mojo? Mojo is pretty good as a dac. If you only need a desktop amp, you have many options. 

But usually the sound from the computer sound card is not good enough. It's better to use a dac also.


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> And "Tack" in Swedish means "thank you".
> 
> Tak?
> Tak!
> Tack!


 
 You see... just one word and so many options. No need to learn foreign languages really


----------



## ld100

holypal said:


> Mojo? Mojo is pretty good as a dac. If you only need a desktop amp, you have many options.
> 
> But usually the sound from the computer sound card is not good enough. It's better to use a dac also.


 
  
 Of course I need DAC/AMP combo. I want to bypass sound card.


----------



## ld100

Any **** PT15 orders have been shipped yet? Mine is still processing...


----------



## Danneq

By the way, has anyone here felt sick from BA drivers?

 Two days in a row I have started to feel a bit wooley in my head when listening to Dunu Alpha 1 on the way home from work. Yesterday I switched to Monk+ and felt better. Today I had Ting as backup and after I switched to them I felt better.

 I have never cared about IEMs, but as I understand it BA drivers are common among IEMs. I wonder if I'm not used to that sort of sound? Silly question perhaps, but I find it strange that I feel better once I switch to DD earbuds...


----------



## Holypal

ld100 said:


> Of course I need DAC/AMP combo. I want to bypass sound card.




Portable: oppo ha-2se (ess9028q2m)
Xduoo XD-05 (AK4490)

Desktop: schiit jotunheim, probably overkill for earphone
Aune X1S


----------



## Holypal

ld100 said:


> Any **** PT15 orders have been shipped yet? Mine is still processing...




No. Still waiting. I also watch their taobao store, it's also pre order.


----------



## Raketen

danneq said:


> By the way, has anyone here felt sick from BA drivers?
> 
> 
> Two days in a row I have started to feel a bit wooley in my head when listening to Dunu Alpha 1 on the way home from work. Yesterday I switched to Monk+ and felt better. Today I had Ting as backup and after I switched to them I felt better.
> ...




I have used a number of BA iem but never had that feeling even from my very first BA er6, maybe it is because the seal of the Alphas causing some confusion to equilibrium or a driver imbalance? Or very powerful subbass can do this sometimes, if they seal very much maybe you are getting more than used to?


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> By the way, has anyone here felt sick from BA drivers?
> 
> Two days in a row I have started to feel a bit wooley in my head when listening to Dunu Alpha 1 on the way home from work. Yesterday I switched to Monk+ and felt better. Today I had Ting as backup and after I switched to them I felt better.
> 
> I have never cared about IEMs, but as I understand it BA drivers are common among IEMs. I wonder if I'm not used to that sort of sound? Silly question perhaps, but I find it strange that I feel better once I switch to DD earbuds...


 

 Only used them on IEMs but I do not like them at all even there. I began to avoid them entirely when I was still listening to IEMs.
 I do not think I would ever buy a BA powered earbud, if the technology ever got there.
 I'm very treble sensitive, and the BA's specialty is treble up to insanely high frequencies.
 so it's actually the overpresence of ultra high frequencies that makes me sick rather than too much sub bass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Put me in a sealed van tuned for bass bombing, and I'll be smiling ear to ear from the minute I get in to the minute I get out.
 some of you guys would need barf bags for that trip! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
@ld100 I think the ali page I ordered on said they needed about 10 days to get them ready for shipping, as it was a pre-sale, so I'm not expecting a shipping notification until that listing's at least that old. I don't think it's been up even 10 days, have it?


----------



## Frederick Wang

danneq said:


> Both the QFred and, to my great relief, TM7 passed the test. I do not dare to test my vintage Sony and Aiwas...



Hi, Danneq, one question, how do you store your e252? I always put my earbuds/IEMs in some round cases, but the e252's cable are so delicate, it become so curly when I get them out of the case...


----------



## Frederick Wang

holypal said:


> No. Still waiting. I also watch their taobao store, it's also pre order.



preorder ended last night on taobao, I just asked them about the shipment date, it's still early morning in China, haven't got rasponse yet.


----------



## Raketen

vapman said:


> Only used them on IEMs but I do not like them at all even there. I began to avoid them entirely when I was still listening to IEMs.
> I do not think I would ever buy a BA powered earbud, if the technology ever got there.
> I'm very treble sensitive, and the *BA's specialty is treble up to insanely high frequencies.*
> so it's actually the overpresence of ultra high frequencies that makes me sick rather than too much sub bass




Ahah... Supposedly there are some darker sounding ones I guess if even the ASG2.5 had too much treble it is a lost cause. Weirdly, until the recent Hi-Res (TM) trend a lot of BA headphones only rated up to 16-18khz, I was used to seeing dynamic driver headphones like 20-24khz.ish.

 I can't even hear above 17khz, but you prefer a downward slope anywhere past 17 Hz


----------



## jant71

Not sure if I missed it already but anything on this one...

 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/100-Original-LaoZe-DIY-3-5mm-In-Ear-Flat-Head-Plug-Earphone-Earplug-Bass-HIFI-Earphone/1727211_32756525581.html


----------



## vapman

raketen said:


> Ahah... Supposedly there are some darker sounding ones I guess if even the ASG2.5 had too much treble it is a lost cause. Weirdly, until the recent Hi-Res (TM) trend a lot of BA headphones only rated up to 16-18khz, I was used to seeing dynamic driver headphones like 20-24khz.ish.
> 
> I can't even hear above 17khz, but you prefer a downward slope anywhere past 17 Hz


 

 I swear dude, for the amounts of shows i've been to and played, and all the time I spend with headphones in, I'm almost angry i can still hear frequencies as high as I can -_-
  
@jant71, never seen that one before, definitely interesting...


----------



## Frederick Wang

frederick wang said:


> preorder ended last night on taobao, I just asked them about the shipment date, it's still early morning in China, haven't got rasponse yet.




The day after tomorrow, they said.


----------



## jant71

DUNU getting a bit silly trying to capitalize on the hybrid craze but armatures DO NOT belong in earbuds. They really need to have seal. Maybe even okay to put them in a headphone as has been done but again if the pads seal right it can work. In earbuds and somewhat larger size ones like the Alpha 1. They really think that was gonna work well ?? 
  
  
 Not armature shy myself. Just bought an excellent condition Phiaton PS200 dual a couple days ago for $50 shipped. Great deal but needs a good seal but there are even better tip options to try it with nowadays and get the most bass and smoothest treble output from them.


----------



## Holypal

frederick wang said:


> The day after tomorrow, they said.




Nice. It probably takes a week to ship to Ali sellers, then ship to us.


----------



## mochill

ld100 said:


> I still can't decide on a desktop headphone amp. Modjo and iFi have been suggested by ClieOS
> , but I am not sure I want portables or semi portables... Or maybe I do... What are you guys using to drive earbuds from your computers? Just want to have few more options to research...


VE RA 2.0


----------



## mochill

jant71 said:


> Not sure if I missed it already but anything on this one...
> 
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/100-Original-LaoZe-DIY-3-5mm-In-Ear-Flat-Head-Plug-Earphone-Earplug-Bass-HIFI-Earphone/1727211_32756525581.html


Saw it and it's expensive☺


----------



## Raketen

I guess they don't quite count as earbuds since they have a headband and don't touch the ears, but someone has a set of Sony PFR-V1 Personal Field Speakers on sale here I get the feeling they'd appeal to earbud lovers for some reason...


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Still waiting for impressions on Shozy Stardust. @Clieos why did you rank it so high? Any details about it?


----------



## vapman

Check out the new Elibuds. I love this color scheme!!!
  

  
  
  
 Quote:


raketen said:


> I guess they don't quite count as earbuds since they have a headband and don't touch the ears, but someone has a set of Sony PFR-V1 Personal Field Speakers on sale here I get the feeling they'd appeal to earbud lovers for some reason...


 
 Mini K1000's! wow! But ugh, I can't bring myself to drop $300 on these... but I _have to_ try them now!!!
  
  


tayyab pirzada said:


> Still waiting for impressions on Shozy Stardust. @Clieos why did you rank it so high? Any details about it?


 
  
 i really want to know if it has a brighter, but still natural, treble as compared to Cygnus.


----------



## Raketen

vapman said:


> Mini K1000's! wow! But ugh, I can't bring myself to drop $300 on these... but I _have to_ try them now!!!




The listing here was ~150 but it is like an 8 year old headphone so idk if that's a good value...


----------



## vapman

raketen said:


> The listing here was ~150 but it is like an 8 year old headphone so idk if that's a good value...


 

 I looked on eBay and saw one sold recently for 150, so I guess that kind of price could be commanded. Too bad all the reviews online are from forever ago.


----------



## ClieOS

tayyab pirzada said:


> Still waiting for impressions on Shozy Stardust. @Clieos why did you rank it so high? Any details about it?




Think of Cygnus with better lower body, slightly more forward mid, a smoother yet more delicate treble - all encompass in an energetic presentation.


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> Now to tease @music4mhell
> a bit...
> 
> 
> ...


 thanks buddy..
please do share your impressions after full burn in..

seems intersting....but quite expensive ...


----------



## vapman

**** earbud and k's 64 silver is shipped 

If it is shockingly good and not crazy bright i will get a linux bax mmcx like i had long ago. Hoping k's silver is not actually pure silver cable. Would have no bass...


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> **** earbud and k's 64 silver is shipped
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Which cable did you choose with **** ? Black ?


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> Which cable did you choose with **** ? Black ?






Oops. Wrong screenshot. But i got no cable... Have one mmcx already... Probably should have got green cable bc gf is borrowing my mmcx iem to travel with...

Btw anyone know if the k's 64 in white uses a silver cable or not? Would be weird if so for the low cost.


----------



## haiku

vapman said:


> Oops. Wrong screenshot. But i got no cable... Have one mmcx already... Probably should have got green cable bc gf is borrowing my mmcx iem to travel with...
> 
> Btw anyone know if the k's 64 in white uses a silver cable or not? Would be weird if so for the low cost.


 
 Silver cable afaik. Enjoy.


----------



## vapman

haiku said:


> Silver cable afaik. Enjoy.




Thanks, will be interesting, doubt ill change it. However makes me wonder if the seahf 32 had an all silver cable too. I have some pre finished cables that look just like the black k's one, so if i really hate it I'll change it out  thanks though!


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> haiku said:
> 
> 
> > Silver cable afaik. Enjoy.
> ...


 
 i have ordered **** with silver and black cable both


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> i have ordered **** with silver and black cable both


 
 looking forward to the comparison!
 i might end up having to get another mmcx cable... >_<


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> By the way, has anyone here felt sick from BA drivers?
> 
> Two days in a row I have started to feel a bit wooley in my head when listening to Dunu Alpha 1 on the way home from work. Yesterday I switched to Monk+ and felt better. Today I had Ting as backup and after I switched to them I felt better.
> 
> I have never cared about IEMs, but as I understand it BA drivers are common among IEMs. I wonder if I'm not used to that sort of sound? Silly question perhaps, but I find it strange that I feel better once I switch to DD earbuds...


 
  
 Hmm, a number of factors could have caused it. Most like is perhaps you are not used to the higher frequencies produced by a BA or the design of DUNU is inherently not that good for an earbud. Personally, after maybe about 2 hours of use, my ears would start to fatigue from BA IEM's. I could last longer with earbuds.....

 BTW, mind I request that you test QFRED with some orchestral music?

 Thank-you 


vapman said:


> Check out the new Elibuds. I love this color scheme!!!


 
 Google Re:Zero Rem and Ram and you will know where did the color scheme came from.
  
 The buds are supposedly tunned for Anime Music.

 Like these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POXKzyjGafc


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Update on a Bunch of Budget Buds (all under $5USD each)  I got through *MisterTao*:

  
_**Crap Buds**_

 - *Teclast* - https://world.taobao.com/item/18183994241.htm
 - There is a reason it is only $0.75USD.  It sounds like it, built like it.

 - *Aigo - *https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=44234475734
 - While not as bad as the Teclast, it is not good in anyway either, avoid buying.

 - *Newsmy - *https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=521828322533
 - It is the EXACT same as the Aigo, not good, not good at all. 
  
  
  
_**Decent Buds**_

 - *Xuehai MX500 DIY - *https://world.taobao.com/item/526359776775.htm
 - Fake Sennheiser MX500, even says it on the housing, sound is not bad.  Decent bass, a bit muddy, but fun.  Good build quality.

 - *Fake? Vido* - https://world.taobao.com/item/22589463857.htm
 - The Blue version which I bought shows Vido in the photos, but not on what I got.  There is a control to switch between Android and iPhone.  Sound sig is like the Xuehai, Bass and a little mud.


_**Good Bud**_

 - *QianYun 25?* - https://world.taobao.com/item/39504951885.htm
 - Not sure exactly what this is, but the sound is the clearest of the bunch.  Comes with a few color options and choice of a straight or angled plug.  Plus has a nice tin case.  Not an earbud for bass lovers.  For this price, I would still say the Monk Plus is the better buy, but I just love testing out budget buds.

 --


----------



## vapman

Definitely interesting the QianYun is the only one to pull through above the rest! Maybe a budget brand worth watching.... I should hear the Qian25 to know how it stacks against the 39.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Also, my *MusicMaker/Toneking TY2* was attempted to be delivered to me today, but I was not home.  

 Hopefully I will have it tomorrow. 
  
 --


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> Definitely interesting the QianYun is the only one to pull through above the rest! Maybe a budget brand worth watching.... I should hear the Qian25 to know how it stacks against the 39.


 
  
 Again, I can not confirm 100% that is what I got.  It is bass light and a little piercing in the highs, not really my favorite signature, but it is decently clear. 
  
 --


----------



## Raketen

bloodypenguin said:


> Also, my *MusicMaker/Toneking TY2* was attempted to be delivered to me today, but I was not home.
> 
> 
> Hopefully I will have it tomorrow.
> ...




Maybe you can let me know if you find foams that stay on the TKY2... surprisingly comfortable given size but for the life of me I cannot get the foams to stay on :veryevil:


----------



## vapman

bloodypenguin said:


> Again, I can not confirm 100% that is what I got.  It is bass light and a little piercing in the highs, not really my favorite signature, but it is decently clear.
> 
> --


 

 Would be weird if it wasn't, as the evidence is fairly compelling, but will keep in mind it might not be!
  
 BTW, anyone else here ever tried the Seahf 32? Is it just mine or is it super bright?


----------



## haiku

vapman said:


> Would be weird if it wasn't, as the evidence is fairly compelling, but will keep in mind it might not be!
> 
> BTW, anyone else here ever tried the Seahf 32? Is it just mine or is it super bright?


 

 Sure, I did. You´re spot on. Super Duper bright. Thumbs down from me.


----------



## vapman

Fresh from Cypherus Audio X....
  


> Price for CampFred usd150 and QFred usd 200 exclude shipment. The CAX black is usd 280 exclude shipment​


 
 Might get a campfred REALLY soon...


----------



## luedriver

vapman said:


> makes me wonder if the seahf 32 had an all silver cable too


 
 kinda the reason I bought the seahf 32 in the first place, (other than the half price discount) don't use them much though and they have decent amount of bass so maybe they are not actually silver


----------



## vapman

luedriver said:


> kinda the reason I bought the seahf 32 in the first place, (other than the half price discount) don't use them much though and they have decent amount of bass so maybe they are not actually silver


 

 It is thin bass though so it could still be.
 might try trading its cable with another bud.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I normally do not post this much in a row, but a lot going on right now.

 In the past, I have posted links and positive reviews of *MisterTao*, unfortunately in my last order, I had two defective earbuds.

 While the price total of these two items only came to about $10USD and I am a very good, repeat customer, I was not treated as well this time and they offered to refund me $1USD.
  
 Now, I get that MisterTao is just an agent and not the actual supplier, but it worries me that future purchases could also arrive to me defective with no way of returning the items or recovering my money.
  
 This is a good way for me to stop buying all these mostly crappy budget earbuds anyways..  ha..


----------



## luedriver

vapman said:


> It is thin bass though so it could still be.
> might try trading its cable with another bud.


 
 I don't like how there isn't enough information on the page where they sell the earbuds, sometimes they give a lot of information, what jack, what cable, other times, its a cat in a bag


----------



## Saoshyant

Bought a used Hifiman Supermini on forum and it just arrived today, so my first listening option is with my balanced SeaHF 320.  The bass quality is respectable at zero EQ, as I haven't found any EQ options built in yet, so I'm not sure if there are any.  Sub-bass is really impressive for an earbud too.  Mids are forward and lovely, and haven't listened to anything yet that'll give a good estimate on quality of treble.  It's a really great listen so far, and I'll give my balanced monk a try soon.  Listening at 19/32 volume, so plenty of room to spare.  I did find it a little odd that they color coded the 3.5mm jacks, and straight black on a black dap is actually balanced instead of the blue which stands out as different.  All in all, this seems to be a great combo.  I just wish my 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter had a better fit, but it did cost me only $5, so I might order another my next VE order.


----------



## luedriver

tomasz2d said:


> On the left K's64 and on the right K's500. Do you mean that one on the left?


 
 do you have them both? if so, how is the k64's, they are on sale, and was curious what the sound sig is...


----------



## JASru

Can someone give a link to k's 64 on Ali?


----------



## vapman

jasru said:


> Can someone give a link to k's 64 on Ali?


 

 you're lucky i was logged in..... 
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-K-s-Earphone-64-ohm-Balanced-High-Impedance-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud-64-ohms-Earbud/32757568153.html
  
 but i did post a screenshot with the store name, anyway, when earbuds on ali are mentioned i think there's 99 percent chance it's HCK who has it...


----------



## kvad

jasru said:


> Can someone give a link to k's 64 on Ali?


 
  
From HCK (not aware of any other sellers currently):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/N-K-s-Earphone-64-ohm-Balanced-High-Impedance-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud-64-ohms-Earbud/32757568153.html
​​
 Edit: Vapman beat me to it : )


----------



## music4mhell

From now on i will buy only highend earbuds.. no more cheap or midfi 
 Already so many earbuds piled up ...!!


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> From now on i will buy only highend earbuds.. no more cheap or midfi
> Already so many earbuds piled up ...!!


 really?


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > From now on i will buy only highend earbuds.. no more cheap or midfi
> ...


 
 Yup, i have to clean my inventory first..
 may be i should start gifting to all my frnd or relatives.. and keep only may be top 10 earbuds max


----------



## tintheman

Hi Golov, did you try the ERQU EQ320? I did write about my impression and I just want to know if anyone else try it.


----------



## Danneq

raketen said:


> I have used a number of BA iem but never had that feeling even from my very first BA er6, maybe it is because the seal of the Alphas causing some confusion to equilibrium or a driver imbalance? Or very powerful subbass can do this sometimes, if they seal very much maybe you are getting more than used to?


 
  
  


vapman said:


> Only used them on IEMs but I do not like them at all even there. I began to avoid them entirely when I was still listening to IEMs.
> I do not think I would ever buy a BA powered earbud, if the technology ever got there.
> I'm very treble sensitive, and the BA's specialty is treble up to insanely high frequencies.
> so it's actually the overpresence of ultra high frequencies that makes me sick rather than too much sub bass
> ...


 


 It might just be that I was tired and felt a bit of motion sickness. I usually don't suffer from that but I was tired and I was riding the subway and then a bus on the freeway. The only strange thing is that I felt better after changing to dynamic driver earbuds...

 I love the concept of Dunu Alpha 1 and I like the sound. However I cannot get a good fit (and no seal at all). I do not find the highs very piercing, but they are quite prominent. I'll give them a bit more time. Otherwise I can sell them to to collect some funds for Cypherus CampFred/Shozy Stardust/K's 500 ohm earbuds etc...


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> raketen said:
> 
> 
> > I have used a number of BA iem but never had that feeling even from my very first BA er6, maybe it is because the seal of the Alphas causing some confusion to equilibrium or a driver imbalance? Or very powerful subbass can do this sometimes, if they seal very much maybe you are getting more than used to?
> ...


 
 When you have Qfred and going for campfred which is 1 rank below it.


----------



## tintheman

Hi Danneq, I also have the Dunu Alpha 1 and like the sound. It's the only earbud I have with almost no sound leak with the wing tips.


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> When you have Qfred and going for campfred which is 1 rank below it.


 

 I think they have different sound characters.

 I asked a person who has got both and he replied:
 "QFred is more for mid lover. It sounds more like tube sound character.
 Campfred has better clarity and detail and better bass impact like solid state sound character"

 Herry of Cypherus think that CampFred is more analogue than digital sounding. The main difference seems to be that QFred has got a focus on mids.


----------



## Danneq

tintheman said:


> Hi Danneq, I also have the Dunu Alpha 1 and like the sound. It's the only earbud I have with almost no sound leak with the wing tips.


 


 I cannot get the Alphas in my ears with any of the rubber/silicon tips or rings. They are too big then. The only option for me is donut foam. Then they are slightly loose.


----------



## Danneq

frederick wang said:


> Hi, Danneq, one question, how do you store your e252? I always put my earbuds/IEMs in some round cases, but the e252's cable are so delicate, it become so curly when I get them out of the case...


 

 I use the original wind up case. Sure, the cable becomes a bit curly but not too bad. Considering the cable is over 30 years old it is in an amazing condition!


----------



## golov17

tintheman said:


> Hi Golov, did you try the ERQU EQ320? I did write about my impression and I just want to know if anyone else try it.


nope


----------



## JASru

Rose Technology 64ohm - any info on this one?


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> BTW, mind I request that you test QFRED with some orchestral music?


 

 What sort of orchestral music? The only one that I've got is classical music. I sometimes listen to it on the stereo when I want to relax but with a 2 year old kid there's no time for relaxing... I just listened a bit to Beethoven and Mozart and I have to say that QFred are amazing for classical music! I compared them on classical music with my pair of Aiwa V99 and while the V99 has got a bigger soundstage there is more body to the music with QFred. It feels like I'm in the concert hall! Just amazing instrument separation. The soundstage is smaller than with Rose Mojito but instrument placement and separation is really first class.

 I also compared QFred to Shozy Cygnus and they really are different. Both have forward mids but that's the only similarity. I have to raise volume by about 7-8 dB for QFred (they are 70 ohm) compared to Cygnus. Everything is just so much smoother and more detailed on QFred. However Cygnus has got a much more "full" sound. There is something delicate about the sound of QFred. Like really high end headphones (that are not too bassy). Bass is okay but QFred are far from "groovy" earbuds. They have not got the same PRAT as Zen 1 or 2 or other earbuds with full and deep bass. However mids and highs really feel like a step up compared to those other earbuds.


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> I also compared QFred to...


 
 And compared to MX985?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> What sort of orchestral music? The only one that I've got is classical music. I sometimes listen to it on the stereo when I want to relax but with a 2 year old kid there's no time for relaxing... I just listened a bit to Beethoven and Mozart and I have to say that QFred are amazing for classical music! I compared them on classical music with my pair of Aiwa V99 and while the V99 has got a bigger soundstage there is more body to the music with QFred. It feels like I'm in the concert hall! Just amazing instrument separation. The soundstage is smaller than with Rose Mojito but instrument placement and separation is really first class.
> 
> I also compared QFred to Shozy Cygnus and they really are different. Both have forward mids but that's the only similarity. I have to raise volume by about 7-8 dB for QFred (they are 70 ohm) compared to Cygnus. Everything is just so much smoother and more detailed on QFred. However Cygnus has got a much more "full" sound. There is something delicate about the sound of QFred. Like really high end headphones (that are not too bassy). Bass is okay but QFred are far from "groovy" earbuds. They have not got the same PRAT as Zen 1 or 2 or other earbuds with full and deep bass. However mids and highs really feel like a step up compared to those other earbuds.


 
 Exactly what I wanted to know! Mozart and Beethoven will do just fine. 
 So the sound-stage is smaller than the Mojito, but instrument separation and positioning is better than the Mojito is that correct?
 The one thing which I was weary about when I first heard about the QFred was their forward mids. 
 I have the Cygnus, and they do not play well with orchestral music, thus I was afraid that QFred would be the same. 
 So in conclusion, although QFred might be have "forward" mids (perhaps more so than Mojito?), it still maintains the 3d presentation and instrument separation?

 Thank-you


----------



## vapman

What the heck is the DZAT DR-05? Worth trying?

 Looks like a weird shape!


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> audionewbi3 said:
> 
> 
> > BTW, mind I request that you test QFRED with some orchestral music?
> ...


 
 If i am not wrong.. Qfred is not fast in music ?


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> And compared to MX985?


 

 Not yet. I compared them to TM7 but feel that they do not beat TM7. QFred is more of a sidegrade to TM7. Can compare them to MX985 as well. Today I'm home from work with my kid who's a bit sick and stays home from kindergarten, so I should focus a bit on him from now...  
  


audionewbi3 said:


> Exactly what I wanted to know! Mozart and Beethoven will do just fine.
> So the sound-stage is smaller than the Mojito, but instrument separation and positioning is better than the Mojito is that correct?
> The one thing which I was weary about when I first heard about the QFred was their forward mids.
> I have the Cygnus, and they do not play well with orchestral music, thus I was afraid that QFred would be the same.
> ...


 

 I'd say:
 Soundstage size: Mojito > QFred
 Instrument separation and positioning: about the same

 I have not compared Mojito directly to QFred but I did find the bass on Mojito slightly overwhelming which is negative to instrument separation and positioning. QFred's bass is not as deep it is more neutral with a slight mid bass hump out of the box, while Mojito has got a more "modern" deep bass.

 Mojito's mids are slightly recessed and vocals sound a bit "cold" to me on them. Vocals sound much more intimate on QFred. Despite the more forward mids I find that soundstage on QFred is good.
  


vapman said:


> What the heck is the DZAT DR-05? Worth trying?
> 
> Looks like a weird shape!


 

 Sounds like an East German car...


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> If i am not wrong.. Qfred is not fast in music ?


 


 They (and bass) are pretty fast. But not deep compared to some other high end earbuds. But still not bass light. I find that they benefit a bit from sub bass EQ boosting, though. Especially for rock...


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> What the heck is the DZAT DR-05? Worth trying?
> 
> Looks like a weird shape!


 
 Buddy, how is TY650 compare to TY300 ohms version or Seahf 300 Ohms ?


----------



## Nachash

Are those K64 balanced? Do they need an adapter to sound right out of an "unbalanced" amp (the schiit magni 2)?


----------



## music4mhell

nachash said:


> Are those K64 balanced? Do they need an adapter to sound right out of an "unbalanced" amp (the schiit magni 2)?


 
 They are unbalanced.. !


----------



## JASru

Does anyone know the Moondrop official  web-site or store?


----------



## teston

ira delphic said:


> By the way... when you get a new earbud (or IEM, headphone, etc.) there's a very quick way to uncover potential driver problems. See my signature - the tone generator (I am not affiliated with it in any way).
> 
> I had a recent PM conversation with a forum member, suggesting that he try it with his issue, this is what he said:
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah this is great. But i'm fear that testing earbuds with low frequency at high volume may have chances to fail the driver. I just turned the volume a bit loader and the earbuds RX-1 and MP rattle like crazy


----------



## golov17

jasru said:


> Does anyone know the Moondrop official  web-site or store?


 http://shop.m.taobao.com/shop/shopIndex.htm?spm=a1z5f.7632052.0.0&shop_id=104344677


----------



## music4mhell

teston said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > By the way... when you get a new earbud (or IEM, headphone, etc.) there's a very quick way to uncover potential driver problems. See my signature - the tone generator (I am not affiliated with it in any way).
> ...


 
 So moral of the story, while burn in, we should use the volume ~60% ?


----------



## teston

music4mhell said:


> So moral of the story, while burn in, we should use the volume ~60% ?


 
 Yep. I just want to test out how much the earbuds can bear


----------



## BloodyPenguin

music4mhell said:


> From now on i will buy only highend earbuds.. no more cheap or midfi
> Already so many earbuds piled up ...!!


 
  
 I'm with you on this, I have spent wait too much on budget earbuds, I could have owned a pair of the Shozy Black by now.

 I have a few remaining pairs still in transit, but I won't be buying anymore for a while.  
  
  
 I also just gave away 5 pairs of crap earbuds to my co-workers for their kids to use.
  
 --


----------



## Saoshyant

I really should end my budget spree too... But having a group of decent sounding disposable earbuds is nice as well. Then again, I pretty much have that in spades.


----------



## Willber

teston said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > So moral of the story, while burn in, we should use the volume ~60% ?
> ...


 
  
 Do people call you "teston to destruction"?


----------



## JASru

http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=524222823803&wp_m=userDefineItem_130&wp_pk=shop/index_722535384_2053405&from=inshop&wp_app=weapp 
Any info on this one? New Moondrop bud?


----------



## RedJohn456

vapman said:


> I'm assuming Nice HCK...
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/N-K-s-Earphone-64-ohm-Balanced-High-Impedance-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud-64-ohms-Earbud/1825606_32757568153.html
> 
> $8 with head fi discount.


 
  
 some people in the past got into hot water over directly advertising discount price from AE sellers, just wanted to give you a heads up!


----------



## ClieOS

jasru said:


> http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=524222823803&wp_m=userDefineItem_130&wp_pk=shop/index_722535384_2053405&from=inshop&wp_app=weapp
> Any info on this one? New Moondrop bud?




That's not a new Moondrop earbud. That's the previous Moondrop earbud. They listed it on high price purely for showing off as legacy


----------



## haiku

I´m getting in touch with 1more.usa, because I want to find out more about this beauty. Third picture.
  
 http://product.cnmo.com/article/1373153.html
  
 Stay tuned, guys.


----------



## teston

willber said:


> Do people call you "teston to destruction"?


 
 Not yet bro 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 They are just fine after the test. I can even hear that the MP become more clear and the soundstage is more opened 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Maybe placebo


----------



## music4mhell

bloodypenguin said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > From now on i will buy only highend earbuds.. no more cheap or midfi
> ...


 
 i keep on giving my all cheap earbuds to my office colleagues


----------



## Danneq

As for budget earbuds, TY HiZ HP32 and Monk+ cover that area for me. I'll probably check out Qian 39, though.

 The real danger is mid fi buds at around $50-70 that sound really good but that are a step down from the high end ones. 2-3 mid fi earbuds is a pair of Shozy Stardust/BK...


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> As for budget earbuds, TY HiZ HP32 and Monk+ cover that area for me. I'll probably check out Qian 39, though.
> 
> 
> The real danger is mid fi buds at around $50-70 that sound really good but that are a step down from the high end ones. 2-3 mid fi earbuds is a pair of Shozy Stardust/BK...


Also try Qian25, must have too


----------



## luedriver

just as I tell myself, that I should focus on the earbuds that I have, up pops up another half price discount from HCK
  
 k64, a bit more than 10 aud, should I go for it,  I shouldn't even be asking, as I see the monk candy the cygnus. the seahf that I rarely use, the rx1 that I try to use on occasion
  
 I have passed up other earbuds like the tp16, seffer etc...
  
 but this k64 has my curiosity, probably because it's half price and related somehow to the k500
  
 so for curiosity sake, does anyone know how they sound?


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> Also try Qian25, must have too


 


 Do not tempt me!

 Not listening! Lalalalalala!!!


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > Also try Qian25, must have too
> ...


 
 Same here , i am not listening at al...


----------



## Willber

haiku said:


> I´m getting in touch with 1more.usa, because I want to find out more about this beauty. Third picture.
> 
> http://product.cnmo.com/article/1373153.html
> 
> Stay tuned, guys.


 

 I seem to remember @golov17 posting them a couple of weeks ago, I remarked on how beautiful they were. Since getting the EO320 I don't doubt they will sound good as well.


----------



## haiku

willber said:


> I seem to remember @golov17 posting them a couple of weeks ago, I remarked on how beautiful they were. Since getting the EO320 I don't doubt they will sound good as well.


 

 Let´s hope so.


----------



## teston

Lol. Seems like you guys are going to abandon the budget train.
 I'm considering to buy a high end earbud to join that high-end train too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I like the Asura 2.0 a lot but don't know which one is upgraded to this? Eyes on the Masya and K's 500 but still not decide yet.


----------



## Ira Delphic

luedriver said:


> just as I tell myself, that I should focus on the earbuds that I have, up pops up another half price discount from HCK
> 
> k64, a bit more than 10 aud, should I go for it,  I shouldn't even be asking, as I see the monk candy the cygnus. the seahf that I rarely use, the rx1 that I try to use on occasion
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've passed on the TP16, not crazy about what I've read about it - mixed opinions. The new **** PT16 should be avoided for now if you haven't ordered, until we receive ours and can provide some opinions.
 The K64 was too good to pass up. Maybe it needs a minormod to make it sound more like its older sibling lol! 
  
 For the **** PT16 the shipping date for mine is 2016-10-17 - no tracking for epacket has shown up. Of course that may just be the date they entered a label into the system, not the ship date. I'll update as soon as it appears in tracking. A few of us got it from the "other" seller, not the super low pre-sale price. For that reason I hope we'll get it sooner. There are at least 3 of us...


----------



## Joy Boy

Sorry for "out of topic" question. But i'm a little bit confuse about which player i should buy for my new daily use.
I have 2 candidates: hidizs ap60 & shanling m1. Fiio x1ii is on my radar too.
My previous dap: fiio x3ii and iriver h10. But because of some reason, i sold both of them.
Thank you


----------



## music4mhell

joy boy said:


> Sorry for "out of topic" question. But i'm a little bit confuse about which player i should buy for my new daily use.
> I have 2 candidates: hidizs ap60 & shanling m1. Fiio x1ii is on my radar too.
> My previous dap: fiio x3ii and iriver h10. But because of some reason, i sold both of them.
> Thank you


 
 Why not Xduoo X3 ?


----------



## kurtextrem

teston said:


> Lol. Seems like you guys are going to abandon the budget train.
> I'm considering to buy a high end earbud to join that high-end train too
> 
> 
> ...


 
 dont forget ty hiz hp650 and shozy stardust 
 based on clieos k's might be closer to asura 2
  
 however I am very curious how Rose' tech sounds like and the fit of Shozys type of shell is better than from k's; So I can't decide yet


----------



## BloodyPenguin

joy boy said:


> Sorry for "out of topic" question. But i'm a little bit confuse about which player i should buy for my new daily use.
> I have 2 candidates: hidizs ap60 & shanling m1. Fiio x1ii is on my radar too.
> My previous dap: fiio x3ii and iriver h10. But because of some reason, i sold both of them.
> Thank you


 
  
  


music4mhell said:


> Why not Xduoo X3 ?


 
  
 Another Vote for the xDuoo X3.  I love mine.  Easy to Rockbox, easy to drive most earbuds.
  
 ..


----------



## kurtextrem

A Shozy Stardust review: https://www.facebook.com/headphoneguru/photos/pb.304494626300538.-2207520000.1477389146./1146893272060665/?type=3&theater
 I can't understand anything through Google Translator, but maybe someone here can?


----------



## JASru

AP100 is not seriously more expensive than M1, why not take it?)


----------



## JASru

jasru said:


> AP100 is not seriously more expensive than M1, why not take it?)


 
 NVM turns out it is much cheaper in Russia, somehow.

 I wonder why the difference is that big.


----------



## Joy Boy

music4mhell said:


> Why not Xduoo X3 ?







bloodypenguin said:


> Another Vote for the xDuoo X3.  I love mine.  Easy to Rockbox, easy to drive most earbuds.
> 
> ..



I've ever had it. Just not the sound i'm searching for. Even cayin n5 or ibasso dx50 is not for my ear.
But i love hifiman hm603s sound. But it's so big and bulky for daily.



jasru said:


> AP100 is not seriously more expensive than M1, why not take it?)



Already tried it before, not my sound too 

*according to m1 spec, is it gonna be a good music player? Never tried ak dac before. 80% of my playlist is metal genre


----------



## music4mhell

joy boy said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Why not Xduoo X3 ?
> ...


 
 Wait for Xduoo X10 then, it will be released soon, it has AKM DAC chip inside..


----------



## JASru

Somehow there was no RX-1 product page on Head-FI (at least I haven't found it). 
 I added it, so reviews would be welcome.
 I will write my share when I get home or tomorrow morning.
 Although RX-1 is not a prefect earbud it clearly deserves a page.


----------



## Joy Boy

music4mhell said:


> Wait for Xduoo X10 then, it will be released soon, it has AKM DAC chip inside..



Woaa, really? Then i should be patient a little bit more... and DAP-less. Any info for spec or picture?


----------



## music4mhell

joy boy said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Wait for Xduoo X10 then, it will be released soon, it has AKM DAC chip inside..
> ...


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/823135/upcoming-dap-from-xduoo-the-x10


----------



## music4mhell

jasru said:


> Somehow there was no RX-1 product page on Head-FI (at least I haven't found it).
> I added it, so reviews would be welcome.
> I will write my share when I get home or tomorrow morning.
> Although RX-1 is not a prefect earbud it clearly deserves a page.


 
 i ordered 2 more Rx-1 yesterday


----------



## JASru

I have two. I finding it enough, but considering getting some more for gifts.


----------



## Joy Boy

music4mhell said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/823135/upcoming-dap-from-xduoo-the-x10



Thank you so much, mate


----------



## Holypal

joy boy said:


> I've ever had it. Just not the sound i'm searching for. Even cayin n5 or ibasso dx50 is not for my ear.
> But i love hifiman hm603s sound. But it's so big and bulky for daily.
> Already tried it before, not my sound too
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you can wait for one month, the Xduoo X10 will be available.


----------



## luckyeights

Hmm curious but could someone rank the bass of the champion buds BK, mojito, k's 500 ohm and masya.  Curious as to how the bass compares between these buds.  How deep do they go, control/accuracy and speed that sort of thing. 
  
 Thanks


----------



## HairyHeadMara

kurtextrem said:


> A Shozy Stardust review: https://www.facebook.com/headphoneguru/photos/pb.304494626300538.-2207520000.1477389146./1146893272060665/?type=3&theater
> I can't understand anything through Google Translator, but maybe someone here can?




I would love to translate every single word for you if it not that long . 

However this guy says that they are very good that if you listen to them for only 10 minutes you'll definitely buy them. 

They are bright, dynamic and detailed, mid is not too forward like cygnus, vocal is also lusher and has more body. 

Bass is impactful and detailed not bloat or boomy. 

Instrument seperation is not as good as Cygnus though. 

Stardust is not sound really flat but not too colored as well. 

Stage is very wide but not very deep.

Hope this help.
Witt


----------



## music4mhell

hairyheadmara said:


> kurtextrem said:
> 
> 
> > A Shozy Stardust review: https://www.facebook.com/headphoneguru/photos/pb.304494626300538.-2207520000.1477389146./1146893272060665/?type=3&theater
> ...


 
 Sometimes we seek into so much technical details...But sometimes we should just enjoy the music.. irrespective of price/FR curve/techincal specs etc etc.. yes but for me FIT is important


----------



## kurtextrem

hairyheadmara said:


> I would love to translate every single word for you if it not that long .
> 
> However this guy says that they are very good that if you listen to them for only 10 minutes you'll definitely buy them.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks a lot!
 Does that really justify the high price, if it's 'worse' in some parts? hmm...


----------



## mochill

Im getting bk in 2.5mm balanced soon. I suspect the guy hasn't burned it in enough


----------



## luckyeights

So i have been A/Bing my TY650 and RX1 and i cant for the life of me figure out why the rx1 is higher on the list other than value?  The ty650 outclasses the rx1 in details/resolution, vocals, sound stage, bass, highs i feel they are similar but the ty650 is smoother.  
  
 When i listen to female vocals on my ty650 i can hear the intricate details of her subtle breaths, the wetness of her mouth, the slight little crack in her voice just as she starts a high note. And the vocals sound so much more intimate and lush.  All of this is lost on the rx1.   Yes the rx1 is a superb value but its not even in the same class as the ty650.


----------



## Ira Delphic

luckyeights said:


> So i have been A/Bing my TY650 and RX1 and i cant for the life of me figure out why the rx1 is higher on the list other than value?  The ty650 outclasses the rx1 in details/resolution, vocals, sound stage, bass, highs i feel they are similar but the ty650 is smoother.
> 
> When i listen to female vocals on my ty650 i can hear the intricate details of her subtle breaths, the wetness of her mouth, the slight little crack in her voice just as she starts a high note. And the vocals sound so much more intimate and lush.  All of this is lost on the rx1.   Yes the rx1 is a superb value but its not even in the same class as the ty650.


 
  
 The way I understand it, _cost has nothing to do with the ranking on the list_.
 Ability to resolve "intricate details" is something that I value most in listening gear.


----------



## vapman

I also think the 650 walks all over most all the Greats, but that is another reason why personal preferences are very important to take into consideration. I can understand *why* someone might prefer the rx1 to the 650 but i certainly prefer the 650 to basically everything else i have


----------



## luckyeights

Granted my TY650 has 80 hours or so my rx1 roughly 25 hours.  maybe when he ranked them he didnt give the ty650s the burn in they needed?  They really do need a burn in more so than other buds i feel to reach their full potential.


----------



## vapman

luckyeights said:


> Granted my TY650 has 80 hours or so my rx1 roughly 25 hours.  maybe when he ranked them he didnt give the ty650s the burn in they needed?




I've told mr. clieOS to let them burn in for a while and come back to them 

If his opinion doesn't change i will be happy with that, as i only want to know if it would be a different sound than he remembers.


----------



## Tomasz2D

luckyeights said:


> So i have been A/Bing my TY650 and RX1 and i cant for the life of me figure out why the rx1 is higher on the list other than value?  The ty650 outclasses the rx1 in details/resolution, vocals, sound stage, bass, highs i feel they are similar but the ty650 is smoother.
> 
> When i listen to female vocals on my ty650 i can hear the intricate details of her subtle breaths, the wetness of her mouth, the slight little crack in her voice just as she starts a high note. And the vocals sound so much more intimate and lush.  All of this is lost on the rx1.   Yes the rx1 is a superb value but its not even in the same class as the ty650.


 
 Guys, really there is no point to discuss ClieOS choices. That's one man's list that he is kind enough to share publicly. Each of us would make different list (including me) that would be biased by our preferences. I remember that I have read somewhere that ClieOS said that he ranks higher these earbuds that he finds something special in them. I only know fraction of earbuds from his list but what I have observed already is that generic sounding, overlaping in sound (even if they sound good) earbuds are ranked lower. These with top ranking usually are one of a kind (at least at the time of ranking). Buy top 10 earbuds from his list and you are set for every kind of weather, season, mood and music style.


----------



## Brian Coffey

tomasz2d said:


> Guys, really there is no point to discuss ClieOS choices. That's one man's list that he is kind enough to share publicly. Each of us would make different list (including me) that would be biased by our preferences. I remember that I have read somewhere that ClieOS said that he ranks higher these earbuds that he finds something special in them. I only know fraction of earbuds from his list but what I have observed already is that generic sounding, overlaping in sound (even if they sound good) earbuds are ranked lower. These with top ranking usually are one of a kind (at least at the time of ranking). Buy top 10 earbuds from his list and you are set for every kind of weather, season, mood and music style.


 
 +1


----------



## purplesun

luckyeights said:


> So i have been A/Bing my TY650 and RX1 and i cant for the life of me figure out why the rx1 is higher on the list other than value?  The ty650 outclasses the rx1 in details/resolution, vocals, sound stage, bass, highs i feel they are similar but the ty650 is smoother.


 
  
 What source equipment are you using?
 What are the genres of music you listen to most often?
 Thanks.


----------



## luckyeights

purplesun said:


> What source equipment are you using?
> What are the genres of music you listen to most often?
> Thanks.


 
 I use several sources.  My desktop unit is a modi multibit, magni 2 schit stack. My two mobile untis are a centrance dacport slim and xdou xd 05.  As far as music what ever i am in the mood for and my mouse pointer happens to land on.  I like all music so long as its not overly dirty and full of cuss words.


----------



## purplesun

luckyeights said:


> I use several sources.  My desktop unit is a modi multibit, magni 2 schit stack. My two mobile untis are a centrance dacport slim and xdou xd 05.  As far as music what ever i am in the mood for and my mouse pointer happens to land on.  I like all music so long as its not overly dirty and full of cuss words.


 
  
 Makes me wonder if TY650 is a very transparent earbud & revealing the high quality of the source equipment without adding it's own colouration. So far, the few TY650 users seem to be driving it with quite good sources. I wonder if TY650 can scale down to less capable sources while retaining its quality. I guess, with more users cropping up, we will know soon enough.
  
 Oh yeah! "not overly dirty and full of cuss words", sign me up for that too


----------



## luckyeights

tomasz2d said:


> Guys, really there is no point to discuss ClieOS choices. That's one man's list that he is kind enough to share publicly. Each of us would make different list (including me) that would be biased by our preferences. I remember that I have read somewhere that ClieOS said that he ranks higher these earbuds that he finds something special in them. I only know fraction of earbuds from his list but what I have observed already is that generic sounding, overlaping in sound (even if they sound good) earbuds are ranked lower. These with top ranking usually are one of a kind (at least at the time of ranking). Buy top 10 earbuds from his list and you are set for every kind of weather, season, mood and music style.


 
 I think his list is very helpful and i am happy he has chosen to share it. 
  
 To me the list is just a list and has nothing to do with ClieOS choices, it is a tool that many members use to guide them to their next purchase.   I reference it as an object of comparison and i am not questioning his choices.  To me the list has taken on its own embodiment since it has such a powerful influence on the forum, i think a lot of people especially new members take the list as fact and not as someones opinion.  The list greatly influences this forum and the purchasing habits of its members.  If you notice when a new earbud makes the list a lot of members go out and purchase that earbub.  So if you or anyone has a different opinion on a bud i think its important to share, the list is the only thing we have on here to voice a comparison to that other members can visually reference.
  
 Sorry if you interpret me as if i am questioning his choices i only view it as a tool for reference.  And when i question or refute the list i am refuting/questing it as an object that others can reference i am not trying to question ClieOS choices.


----------



## vapman

luckyeights said:


> I think his list is very helpful and i am happy he has chosen to share it.
> 
> To me the list is just a list and has nothing to do with ClieOS choices, it is a tool that many members use to guide them to their next purchase.   I reference it as an object of comparison and i am not questioning his choices.  To me the list has taken on its own embodiment since it has such a powerful influence on the forum, *i think a lot of people especially new members take the list as fact and not as someones opinion.  The list greatly influences this forum and the purchasing habits of its members.*  If you notice when a new earbud makes the list a lot of members go out and purchase that earbub.  So if you or anyone has a different opinion on a bud i think its important to share, the list is the only thing we have on here to voice a comparison to that other members can visually reference.
> 
> Sorry if you interpret me as if i am questioning his choices i only view it as a tool for reference.  And when i question or refute the list i am refuting/questing it as an object that others can reference i am not trying to question ClieOS choices.


 
 This is what we need to avoid so the list doesn't disappear!
 It's really our privilege that  ClieOS shares this list with us and continues to.
 The descriptions for each already went away and won't be coming back because people would come in the thread and get angry at not agreeing with the descriptions in the list, as if they were supposed to be fact.
 The fact of the matter is any list would lead directly to purchases. When I write reviews I know someone will buy at least 1 directly due to my review, if it is good, and that is something that weighs heavily on my conscience.
 You can imagine the pressure for a page 1 list, so I always ask everyone to not criticize it and, if you really object to something in it, remember it is a personal opinion.
  
  
 In other news....
  
 I'm still listening to my 650 every day


----------



## luckyeights

vapman said:


> This is what we need to avoid so the list doesn't disappear!
> It's really our privilege that  ClieOS shares this list with us and continues to.
> The descriptions for each already went away and won't be coming back because people would come in the thread and get angry at not agreeing with the descriptions in the list, as if they were supposed to be fact.
> The fact of the matter is any list would lead directly to purchases. When I write reviews I know someone will buy at least 1 directly due to my review, if it is good, and that is something that weighs heavily on my conscience.
> ...


 
 I completely agree with you.  I just dont know how we can accomplish this =(.  We only have the one list and no other reference material really for new or other members to view.  Its also the only thing we have that we can make comparisons to that can act as a visual aide.  If i say one thing is better than another people, want to know where that stands on a list so they can figure out what might be best for them.  So i dont know what we can do =/   I just try to use it as a tool/visual aide.


----------



## vapman

luckyeights said:


> I completely agree with you.  I just dont know how we can accomplish this =(.  We only have the one list and no other reference material really for new or other members to view.  Its also the only thing we have that we can make comparisons to that can act as a visual aide.  If i say one thing is better than another people, want to know where that stands on a list so they can figure out what might be best for them.  So i dont know what we can do =/   I just try to use it as a tool/visual aide.


 
 The more people that make their own lists, really, the better.
  
 I would support everyone who is a regular cultivating their own list and linking it in their signature or whatever. (I know we have some users who only post from mobile and they never see signatures, but it's better than nothing)


----------



## luckyeights

vapman said:


> The more people that make their own lists, really, the better.
> 
> I would support everyone who is a regular cultivating their own list and linking it in their signature or whatever. (I know we have some users who only post from mobile and they never see signatures, but it's better than nothing)


 
 Maybe but most people's lists would be rather short.  What would be nice is if lets say i made a list and i ranked them 1 through what ever my vote for my first place lets say is ty650 gets tallied on a main list/table as ty650 has x number of votes as their number 1 choice and x amount as their second choice ect.  Something like that would be great as since its a like a poll, people know its opinions and they know it consists of multiple people's opinions.  But whats cool to is if lets say i then get another bud and change my first place bud the main list would get update automatically. If only someone could make such a thing it be great.


----------



## vapman

luckyeights said:


> Maybe but most people's lists would be rather short.  What would be nice is if lets say i made a list and i ranked them 1 through what ever my vote for my first place lets say is ty650 gets tallied on a main list/table as ty650 has x number of votes as their number 1 choice and x amount as their second choice ect.  Something like that would be great as since its a like a poll, people know its opinions and they know it consists of multiple people's opinions.  But whats cool to is if lets say i then get another bud and change my first place bud the main list would get update automatically. If only someone could make such a thing it be great.


 

 Maybe someone could conduct a monthly poll based on what's new? or something like that? I don't want to run it, though...


----------



## purplesun

I think, with different equipment between members, correlating everyone's listening experience will be further skewed. I was thinking if there was 1 or 2 popular DAPs among the reviewers, and if they are cheap enough that almost everyone has one, it would help ameliorate this disparity. The tested earbud's performance can then be queried against these reference DAPs.


----------



## vapman

Most people here have a Xduoo X3 i think, that is pretty popular from what I understand?


----------



## music4mhell

Even though i am fully enjoying TY650, i have ordered 2 more Rx-1 as some backups


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> I'd say:
> Soundstage size: Mojito > QFred
> Instrument separation and positioning: about the same
> 
> ...


 
 Alright thanks for the valuable information mate!
 Interesting to see that you mention the bass bleed of Mojito. I thought they were quite well controlled (or maybe I just have not heard better earbuds =p)

 Anyway, hope your kid is doing alright!


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> Alright thanks for the valuable information mate!
> Interesting to see that you mention the bass bleed of Mojito. I thought they were quite well controlled (or maybe I just have not heard better earbuds =p)
> 
> Anyway, hope your kid is doing alright!


 

 Well, I wouldn't call it "bass bleed" It's just that bass feels deep with rock and metal and that sort of takes away some of the focus from mids and highs. I agree that bass is well controlled. But even if I like deep bass, I sort of prefer it to be a bit lighter in earbuds that focus more on details and soundstage. Otherwise it takes away some of the listener's focus from those things...

 Thanks. He's all right. Just an upset stomach. It might be a virus or something so we're keeping him home this week...

 By the way, now the QFreds are up to perhaps 20 hours and the mid bass bump isn't as noticable. I'll try to keep them working in the weekend so that they reach at least the recommended minimun 60 hours...


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> audionewbi3 said:
> 
> 
> > Alright thanks for the valuable information mate!
> ...


 
 I am waiting......waiting.............
  
 Desperately waiting............................................


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> I am waiting......waiting.............
> 
> Desperately waiting............................................


 

 Just sell a few of your buds and take a chance!

 I'll sell some more stuff and go for CampFred now. Out of the box QFred was enough to make me want to hear more Cypherus earbuds...


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I am waiting......waiting.............
> ...


 
 If that's the case, then i will buy both Qfred and Campfred at same time next month  It will save shipping cost and once for all .. !


----------



## haiku

vapman said:


> The more people that make their own lists, really, the better.
> 
> I would support everyone who is a regular cultivating their own list and linking it in their signature or whatever. (I know we have some users who only post from mobile and they never see signatures, but it's better than nothing)


 

 Here´s haiku´s ranking list of 27.10.2016
  
 1. 1More EO320
 2. K´s earphone 500Ohm
 3. Seahf LD-3.0 400Ohm
 4. Seahf 320Ohm V1
 5. Seahf LD-3.0 320Ohm
 6.Seahf 320Ohm V2
 7. Seahf LD-4.0 400Ohm
 8. Seahf LD-3.0 150Ohm
 9. VE Monk
 10. VE Monk+
 11. Seahf  32OHM


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> Just sell a few of your buds and take a chance!
> 
> I'll sell some more stuff and go for CampFred now. Out of the box QFred was enough to make me want to hear more Cypherus earbuds...


 

 I almost bought a campfred last night but I have to wait for mr. Cypherus X to be back from vacation 
  
  


haiku said:


> Here´s haiku´s ranking list of 27.10.2016


 
 Wow damn dude, I guess I should try that 1MORE. It's a Xiaomi brand aren't they? either way, the list in inspirational and i think it's not a bad format for people to post once in a while?


----------



## Tomasz2D

luckyeights said:


> So if you or anyone has a different opinion on a bud i think its important to share, the list is the only thing we have on here to voice a comparison to that other members can visually reference.


 
 I replied to you before, but my post was meant to be more general.
 But yes, you are right - this is what this forum is for. This is just so important how we express our opinions.
  
 "I don't understand how he could like blue more then green if I like green more then blue" 
 bears some notion of personal attack, whereas
 "I see that he likes blue more then green but personaly I like green more then blue"
 is completly OK and understandable.


----------



## haiku

vapman said:


> I almost bought a campfred last night but I have to wait for mr. Cypherus X to be back from vacation
> 
> 
> Wow damn dude, I guess I should try that 1MORE. It's a Xiaomi brand aren't they? either way, the list in inspirational and i think it's not a bad format for people to post once in a while?


 

 Thanks.
 Afaik, 1More is the company which creates and designs the headphones for Xiaomi.
 If their next earbud sounds as great as it looks, it will be a killer that´s for sure.


----------



## Tomasz2D

I've got another SHE3800 so now I have one from Fasttech and one from Lunashops. They both look exactly the same (jack, Y splitter, package) but they sound very different. I think Oleg had similar experience already, if I remember correctly he got something like 5 pcs and only 2 were OK and he trashed the rest. Looks like a roulette.


----------



## ClieOS

1MORE is originally the design arm inside XiaoMi. They spin it off into a new company / brand and now 1MORE designs both for XiaoMi as well as partnering with different companies.


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> I've got another SHE3800 so now I have one from Fasttech and one from Lunashops. They both look exactly the same (jack, Y splitter, package) but they sound very different. I think Oleg had similar experience already, if I remember correctly he got something like 5 pcs and only 2 were OK and he trashed the rest. Looks like a roulette.


 yes, some buds very good, some not..


----------



## vapman

clieos said:


> 1MORE is originally the design arm inside XiaoMi. They spin it off into a new company / brand and now 1MORE designs both for XiaoMi as well as partnering with different companies.


 

 Thanks for the clarification sir 
  
  


tomasz2d said:


> I've got another SHE3800 so now I have one from Fasttech and one from Lunashops. They both look exactly the same (jack, Y splitter, package) but they sound very different. I think Oleg had similar experience already, if I remember correctly he got something like 5 pcs and only 2 were OK and he trashed the rest. Looks like a roulette.


 

 Are they worth it to you? I still haven't got them. they are the only budget bud I keep putting in my cart and then not buying. I've bought pretty much everything else I ever wanted buds-wise.


----------



## Townyj

Serious question.. does anyone know where i can buy foams that are thick? Or thicker than most. The cable on my Red Demun tends tug on the left earbud and the seal breaks. I have doubled up foams but it makes them a tad veiled.. received my edimun v3 today and the fit is alot better just because the cable isnt so stiff.


----------



## ClieOS

tomasz2d said:


> I've got another SHE3800 so now I have one from Fasttech and one from Lunashops. They both look exactly the same (jack, Y splitter, package) but they sound very different. I think Oleg had similar experience already, if I remember correctly he got something like 5 pcs and only 2 were OK and he trashed the rest. Looks like a roulette.




Look like they could be fake, as many of you should know the actual model name SHE3800 is an IEM, not earbud. Some how only in China it was once an earbud model. As far as I can tell, someone might have produced this fake Phillips model using a decent driver and made a name for it, while others just to make quick money by copying the fake model with bad driver.


----------



## luedriver

tomasz2d said:


> I've got another SHE3800 so now I have one from Fasttech and one from Lunashops. They both look exactly the same (jack, Y splitter, package) but they sound very different. I think Oleg had similar experience already, if I remember correctly he got something like 5 pcs and only 2 were OK and he trashed the rest. Looks like a roulette.


 
 so do you know from where you got the decent sounding one?
  
 I got mine a while back when golov replied to me saying that this was the only philips earbud that he knows of, and that was from fasttech


----------



## Tomasz2D

clieos said:


> Look like they could be fake, as many of you should know the actual model name SHE3800 is an IEM, not earbud.


 
  
 Yes, this is very probable they could be fake.


vapman said:


> Are they worth it to you? I still haven't got them. they are the only budget bud I keep putting in my cart and then not buying. I've bought pretty much everything else I ever wanted buds-wise.


 
  
 The ones I've got - no. But you could consider them as retune project platform because they are so cheap.
  


luedriver said:


> so do you know from where you got the decent sounding one?


 
 The one from Fasttech sounds a bit better to me, but neither of them is good in fact.
  
 P.S. I remember you asked me about K's64 but I will try to post some impressions later.


----------



## music4mhell

townyj said:


> Serious question.. does anyone know where i can buy foams that are thick? Or thicker than most. The cable on my Red Demun tends tug on the left earbud and the seal breaks. I have doubled up foams but it makes them a tad veiled.. received my edimun v3 today and the fit is alot better just because the cable isnt so stiff.


 
 Buy Hiegi Foams .. they are the thickest ... Hiegi / Feng... Penon sells those..


----------



## golov17

2012 y about she3800 link http://sl4x.com/threads/review-earbuds-phillips-she3800-real-sound.113876/


----------



## vapman

Alright you guys, I finally bit the bullet and did it. Cotton, bluetac, or sorbothane (how thick?) for the @ozkan-mod?
  
  
  


> Order Placed:
> Thursday, October 27, 2016
> Order Total: $9.97
> 
> ...


----------



## Tomasz2D

townyj said:


> Serious question.. does anyone know where i can buy foams that are thick? Or thicker than most. The cable on my Red Demun tends tug on the left earbud and the seal breaks. I have doubled up foams but it makes them a tad veiled.. received my edimun v3 today and the fit is alot better just because the cable isnt so stiff.


 
 Have you tried to wear Red De'mun cowboy hat style with chin fastener up. At least it works for me this way.
 "There's a time in a mans life when he needs to cowboy up and ride."
  
 How do you like RD vs. Ev3 ?


----------



## music4mhell

Received 2 Monk+ with android Mic 
 Let see which one i will use while riding bike .. TP16 with Mic or Monk+ with Mic !


----------



## kurtextrem

haiku said:


> Here´s haiku´s ranking list of 27.10.2016
> 
> 1. 1More EO320
> 2. K´s earphone 500Ohm
> 3. Seahf LD-3.0 400Ohm


 

 so even if the 1More is your #1, you'd say we should wait for the successor of it?


----------



## music4mhell

kurtextrem said:


> haiku said:
> 
> 
> > Here´s haiku´s ranking list of 27.10.2016
> ...


 
 My 1More EO320 has reached my country... Let see how this hold up to the hype


----------



## haiku

kurtextrem said:


> so even if the 1More is your #1, you'd say we should wait for the successor of it?


 

 From my experience, as long as it´s not on ClieOS champions list, I don´t think anybody will believe me. At least that´s how it´s been with the K´s. So maybe the successor will have more luck.


----------



## luedriver

golov17 said:


> 2012 y about she3800 link http://sl4x.com/threads/review-earbuds-phillips-she3800-real-sound.113876/


 
 kinda lost in translation, something about airlines and stuff 
  
 do you know of a site that can make sense of it in english without it being a literal translation?
  
 edit, it doesn't matter, I almost understood most of what it wanted to say


----------



## kurtextrem

haiku said:


> From my experience, as long as it´s not on ClieOS champions list, I don´t think anybody will believe me. At least that´s how it´s been with the K´s. So maybe the successor will have more luck.


 
 not true! I had the Seahf LD-3.0 400 on my list because of you 
 At some point I've also asked what "K's" is, but I never fully understood until ClieOS mentioned it again (also: couldn't find on Aliexpress and I wasn't too aware of taobao as I can't understand the site)
  
 ...but back to 1More: Would you say wait for the successor or buy the EO320 now?


----------



## haiku

The thing with the 1More is, it´s an extremely balanced and effortless sounding earbud. The beryllium driver + the metal housing just don´t create any bad resonances, like the mx500 shell is doing imo. This creates a very clean and clear sound. At first, I had to take a while to adjust to it, but then every time I went back to my K´s, they sounded somehow grainy and smeary, with the balanced totally off to the bright side. All imo.
 If you would ask me for anything special about the 1More, I´d say the addictive bass, soundstage depth, and that every instrument is equally present all the time, something which really surprised me, because I haven´t heard that before.
 The 1More clearly is an earbud with which you can discover your music library anew. I love it!


----------



## haiku

kurtextrem said:


> not true! I had the Seahf LD-3.0 400 on my list because of you
> At some point I've also asked what "K's" is, but I never fully understood until ClieOS mentioned it again (also: couldn't find on Aliexpress and I wasn't too aware of taobao as I can't understand the site)
> 
> ...but back to 1More: Would you say wait for the successor or buy the EO320 now?


 
  

 Oh, ok, so you were the other one of 2! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Should you buy the EO320? Man, I don´t know. I can only say, that since I got it, the other earbuds are collecting dust, including the K´s.


----------



## kurtextrem

haiku said:


> The thing with the 1More is, it´s an extremely balanced and effortless sounding earbud. The beryllium driver + the metal housing just don´t create any bad resonances, like the mx500 shell is doing imo. This creates a very clean and clear sound. At first, I had to take a while to adjust to it, but then every time I went back to my K´s, they sounded somehow grainy and smeary, with the balanced totally off to the bright side. All imo


 
 Hmm that sounds so interesting. The last important thing for me is how great would it be in gaming? e.g. for footsteps and its 3D soundstage


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> kurtextrem said:
> 
> 
> > not true! I had the Seahf LD-3.0 400 on my list because of you
> ...


 
 When EO320 will release ?


----------



## Danneq

There's only EO320 with TRRS plug for mobile phones, right? Or is there a version with regular TRS 3.5 mm plug?


----------



## Willber

> ...but back to 1More: Would you say wait for the successor or buy the EO320 now?


 
  
 Bear in mind:

There is no date set for the release of the successor
There is no guarantee of the quality of the successor
The EO320 is excellent in its own right as @haiku has described
  
 I'd say go for it.


----------



## haiku

music4mhell said:


> When EO320 will release ?


 

 They are the version I´m talking about. The release date of the successor is not out, yet. I´ve contacted 1More, but no reply, so far.


----------



## Sempenyi

vapman said:


> Fresh from Cypherus Audio X....
> 
> Might get a campfred REALLY soon...


 
 what is that black coax ?
  


music4mhell said:


> My 1More EO320 has reached my country... Let see how this hold up to the hype


 
  
 any link for this one ?


luedriver said:


> kinda lost in translation, something about airlines and stuff
> 
> do you know of a site that can make sense of it in english without it being a literal translation?
> 
> edit, it doesn't matter, I almost understood most of what it wanted to say


 
 i have tried 4 different translation web and this all of them is pretty much a mess


----------



## Willber

music4mhell said:


> When EO320 will release ?


 
 It is already on sale, I bought mine three weeks ago.


----------



## kvad

haiku said:


> Should you buy the EO320? Man, I don´t know. I can only say, that since I got it, the other earbuds are collecting dust, including the K´s.


 
  
 You've got me intrigued enough to give it a shot at least : ) besides, not much to loose at the current prices.
 Any idea if we have to worry about fakes with these ones, or will mostly any seller do?
  
 ... all that being said, perhaps waiting till 11/11 might be a good idea. Almost a year ago since that sale sent me spinning down this rabbit hole : )


----------



## music4mhell

willber said:


> > ...but back to 1More: Would you say wait for the successor or buy the EO320 now?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Mine is on the way.. so desperate to check it !


----------



## Willber

kvad said:


> haiku said:
> 
> 
> > Should you buy the EO320? Man, I don´t know. I can only say, that since I got it, the other earbuds are collecting dust, including the K´s.
> ...


 
 I got mine from AE. Just make sure it is the EO320 and not the earlier EO303 (which is cheaper but reportedly inferior).


----------



## haiku

kvad said:


> You've got me intrigued enough to give it a shot at least : ) besides, not much to loose at the current prices.
> Any idea if we have to worry about fakes with these ones, or will mostly any seller do?
> 
> ... all that being said, perhaps waiting till 11/11 might be a good idea. Almost a year ago since that sale sent me spinning down this rabbit hole : )


 

 Alright, but one caveat: The EO320 was created to bring you music as the artist intended, so we´re talking about reference studio monitor sound quality. If you don´t like that (ClieOS doesn´t seem to) don´t buy it.


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> kvad said:
> 
> 
> > You've got me intrigued enough to give it a shot at least : ) besides, not much to loose at the current prices.
> ...


 
 I have genelec studio monitors in my room. Now i can compare  Source will be the same .. Chord Mojo !


----------



## kvad

haiku said:


> Alright, but one caveat: The EO320 was created to bring you music as the artist intended, so we´re talking about reference studio monitor sound quality. If you don´t like that (ClieOS doesn´t seem to) don´t buy it.


 

 ​You still say it has an 'addictive bass' though, so when you're referring to 'reference studio monitor' I'm guessing we're not talking the flat and boring type, but just a good balance?
 Regardless, I won't hold you personally responsible if I should happen to not like them : )


----------



## rggz

tomasz2d said:


> I've got another SHE3800 so now I have one from Fasttech and one from Lunashops. They both look exactly the same (jack, Y splitter, package) but they sound very different. I think Oleg had similar experience already, if I remember correctly he got something like 5 pcs and only 2 were OK and he trashed the rest. Looks like a roulette.


 

 Strange. Also looks like the same recent case about Baldoor/Mrice E100.
  
 Btw the front cap of the driver in the Mrice/Philips/Edifier looks like the same. I'm wondering if they share the same OEM with the same QC issues differing only the cost/quality of drivers per batch, lol.


----------



## haiku

kvad said:


> ​You still say it has an 'addictive bass' though, so when you're referring to 'reference studio monitor' I'm guessing we're not talking the flat and boring type, but just a good balance?
> Regardless, I won't hold you personally responsible if I should happen to not like them : )


 

 A good balance. The only thing I always disliked with studio monitors, the bass was rather meh. Well, at least with british monitors.
 No, the bass of the EO320 is well integrated, so don´t expect it will sound like a Seahf LD-3.0 400Ohm.


----------



## haiku

How you see the bass performance of the EO320 does also depend on were you´re from. I´ve seen on chinese websites they call it "Super Bass Earphones".


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> How you see the bass performance of the EO320 does also depend on were you´re from. I´ve seen on chinese websites they call it "Super Bass Earphones".


 
 Which other earbuds you are looking at other than 1more and K's ?


----------



## Danneq

Well, the most neutral sounding earbuds I've heard are Sennheiser MX980/985. Others can be more fun, bassy, detailed etc. The Sennheisers just present the music as it is. If I could find a non cell phone version of EO320 I'd check them out. But I find it annoying to be forced to use adapters, like for the Erqu EQ300 that I bought from Ali express.


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> Well, the most neutral sounding earbuds I've heard are Sennheiser MX980/985. Others can be more fun, bassy, detailed etc. The Sennheisers just present the music as it is. If I could find a non cell phone version of EO320 I'd check them out. But I find it annoying to be forced to use adapters, like for the Erqu EQ300 that I bought from Ali express.


 
 Why adapters ? you can use directly from any stereo jack ..!!
 Right now i am listening to Monk+ with mic from Chord mojo ..!!


----------



## luedriver

danneq said:


> Well, the most neutral sounding earbuds I've heard are Sennheiser MX980/985. Others can be more fun, bassy, detailed etc. The Sennheisers just present the music as it is. If I could find a non cell phone version of EO320 I'd check them out. But I find it annoying to be forced to use adapters, like for the Erqu EQ300 that I bought from Ali express.


 
 when I hear/read stuff like that I feel like taking a hike 
  
 I would have bought those senn's omx980 while back , but the trip there and back is the only thing stopping me, that and the fact they have earhooks, but mostly the long 6 hour journey to get them


----------



## Danneq

Well, trrs plugs do not work on my DAPs. I need an adapter to TRS plug. I never use my mobile phone for music listening.


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> Well, trrs plugs do not work on my DAPs. I need an adapter to TRS plug. I never use my mobile phone for music listening.


 
 But how come it's working on my Chord Mojo ?.. Strange


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> But how come it's working on my Chord Mojo ?.. Strange


 


 Well, I like vintage DAPs and most of them are ancient so they cannot "understand" TRRS plugs...


----------



## ClieOS

haiku said:


> Alright, but one caveat: The EO320 was created to bring you music as the artist intended, so we´re talking about reference studio monitor sound quality. If you don´t like that (ClieOS doesn´t seem to) don´t buy it.




You might have assumed too much. I just picked up a pair of Etymotic ER4SR because I quite like it, and 'SR' stands for 'studio reference' - backed by Etymotic decades of studies. I don't think I dislike reference studio monitor sound quality in anyway, just that i don't think EO320 fits that description good enough to rank any higher than it is.


----------



## haiku

clieos said:


> You might have assumed too much. I just picked up a pair of Etymotic ER4SR because I quite like it, and 'SR' stands for 'studio reference' - backed by Etymotic decades of studies. I don't think I dislike reference studio monitor sound quality in anyway, just that i don't think EO320 fits that description good enough to rank any higher than it is.


 

 Still, I don´t get what you dislike. From what you´ve written so far, I just got that the only flaw it has for you is, that it doesn´t have any!?


----------



## Townyj

music4mhell said:


> Buy Hiegi Foams .. they are the thickest ... Hiegi / Feng... Penon sells those..




I have tried the Feng Full foams and Hiegi donuts.. didnt like either pair to be honest. Not much difference compared to the ones supplied. Might have to get Hiegi full foams and try them.




tomasz2d said:


> Have you tried to wear Red De'mun cowboy hat style with chin fastener up. At least it works for me this way.
> "There's a time in a mans life when he needs to cowboy up and ride."
> 
> How do you like RD vs. Ev3 ?




Havent worn the Demun that way actually. Might give it a try  so far i am enjoying the Ed V3 sound quite alot. They do sound different from the Demuns, will need to spend some more time with both to compare over the next few days.


----------



## haiku

About the etymotic. Sure, I also would say they differ. The 1More´s got bass too, the Etymotic doesn´t (which is often the case with Monitors from my experience).


----------



## ClieOS

haiku said:


> Still, I don´t get what you dislike. From what you´ve written so far, I just got that the only flaw it has for you is, that it doesn´t have any!?




What i have said is that it does have any obvious flaw, not that it is perfect in everyway. Good enough doesn't equal to being great.


----------



## haiku

clieos said:


> What i have said is that it does have any obvious flaw, not that it is perfect in everyway. Good enough doesn't equal to being great.


 

 Ok, understood. So in your opinion, what does the K´s 500Ohm better than the EO320? I have both right here, so maybe I can hear it, too.


----------



## Saoshyant

ClieOS So you'd say the 1More is a jack of all trades master of none?


----------



## ClieOS

haiku said:


> Ok, understood. So in your opinion, what does the K´s 500Ohm better than the EO320? I have both right here, so maybe I can hear it, too.




What I find great about K's 500ohm are in its deep rumbling bass and immersive / envrloping soundstage. Of course, also how they fit into the whole sound signature.



saoshyant said:


> ClieOS So you'd say the 1More is a jack of all trades master of none?




Yep.


----------



## haiku

When for example I´m listening to Miles Davis "Bitches Brew", the K´s creates a wider soundstage with a distance to the musicians. The sound is rather airy, but there´s a peakiness  that comes with it, so that I can hardly stand to listen to Miles´ trumpet or the clarinet. Also the lower end of the spectrum is almost missing.
 The EO320 creates a deeper soundstage, but the contact to the musicians is more intimate. There´s much more happening in the lower octaves, and I can enjoy the trumpet, no matter how intense he´s playing.


----------



## Danneq

haiku said:


> Ok, understood. So in your opinion, what does the K´s 500Ohm better than the EO320? I have both right here, so maybe I can hear it, too.


 


 ClieOS has his preferences and his opinions and you have your preferences and opinions. ClieOS was the one who started this thread in 2009, when I was still a lurker. You might not agree with his preferences and opinions but you cannot make hims change his.
 I do not understand why he placed Hisoundaudio Living so high as no 3 among the Great. Personally I could not stand listening to Living for longer than 2 minutes, despite paying $99 for them. Still, I don't try to make him change his ranking. 
 I see the ranking as a sort of guide, not as a list carved in stone.

 Also, I'm extra glad when I find something really good that ClieOS hasn't included in his list yet. Then I can think "at least this once I could beat him to it!"


----------



## haiku

clieos said:


> What I find great about K's 500ohm are in its deep rumbling bass and immersive / envrloping soundstage. Of course, also how they fit into the whole sound signature.


 
 Yup, I get what you say about the soundstage. I just like to have the musicians more close to me. Matter of taste.
 Bass? Nope, don´t hear that. Well, if you compare it to the Etymotic.... 
 I guess it´s simply that our tastes differ. That´s life!


----------



## Ira Delphic

luedriver said:


> danneq said:
> 
> 
> > Well, the most neutral sounding earbuds I've heard are Sennheiser MX980/985. Others can be more fun, bassy, detailed etc. The Sennheisers just present the music as it is. If I could find a non cell phone version of EO320 I'd check them out. But I find it annoying to be forced to use adapters, like for the Erqu EQ300 that I bought from Ali express.
> ...


 
  
 I'm happy with the widely ignored Sennheiser MX 680 cheap refurbs. After mental burn in they are pretty good. But to be avoided by bass heads.


----------



## haiku

danneq said:


> ClieOS has his preferences and his opinions and you have your preferences and opinions. ClieOS was the one who started this thread in 2009, when I was still a lurker. You might not agree with his preferences and opinions but you cannot make hims change his.
> I do not understand why he placed Hisoundaudio Living so high as no 3 among the Great. Personally I could not stand listening to Living for longer than 2 minutes, despite paying $99 for them. Still, I don't try to make him change his ranking.
> I see the ranking as a sort of guide, not as a list carved in stone.
> 
> Also, I'm extra glad when I find something really good that ClieOS hasn't included in his list yet. Then I can think "at least this once I could beat him to it!"


 

 Danneq
 I don´t want him to change his mind. I only wanted to understand what he doesn´t like about the EO320. His first answers were unspecific and vague, so I asked again. That´s all. I too admire what he´s done for all of us, so far.


----------



## golov17

rggz said:


> Strange. Also looks like the same recent case about Baldoor/Mrice E100.
> 
> 
> Btw the front cap of the driver in the Mrice/Philips/Edifier looks like the same. I'm wondering if they share the same OEM with the same QC issues differing only the cost/quality of drivers per batch, lol.


nope, different drivers


----------



## rggz

golov17 said:


> nope, different drivers


 

 Indeed, just a small speculation about those usual differences, far away to confirm that. But, OEMs usually can custom according to the necessity of the client, then somehow with a bad QC as in Mrice case can explain why in 5 pairs just 2 sounds good.


----------



## golov17

I compared the drivers: Baldoor, SHE3800, H180: they have a different structure


----------



## rggz

golov17 said:


> I compared the drivers: Baldoor, SHE3800, H180: they have a different structure


 

 Yes, I'm not claiming about they're using the same driver. Just the same front cap style (and Edifier/Philips the same shell) but might a QC issues in the case of Philips can explain why there are versions which sound different as in the Mrice's case.

 Also, if we'll look to the drivers, just in Mrice's case there are different versions of E100 around the market using a different structure as well. I've posted that in the past showing some differences. Then it's a tough call find the real reason behind those differences. Btw is your bad SHE3800 identical to the good ones in terms of structure?


----------



## golov17

rggz said:


> Yes, I'm not claiming about they're using the same driver. Just the same front cap style (and Edifier/Philips the same shell) but might a QC issues in the case of Philips can explain why there are versions which sound different as in the Mrice's case.
> 
> 
> Also, if we'll look to the drivers, just in Mrice's case there are different versions of E100 around the market using a different structure as well. I've posted that in the past showing some differences. Then it's a tough call find the real reason behind those differences. Btw is your bad SHE3800 identical to the good ones in terms of structure?


yes


----------



## ld100

**** shipped.


----------



## Ira Delphic

ld100 said:


> **** shipped.


 
  
 Did tracking info show up or did they just notify that shipped and provided tracking #?


----------



## tintheman

danneq said:


> Well, the most neutral sounding earbuds I've heard are Sennheiser MX980/985. Others can be more fun, bassy, detailed etc. The Sennheisers just present the music as it is. If I could find a non cell phone version of EO320 I'd check them out. But I find it annoying to be forced to use adapters, like for the Erqu EQ300 that I bought from Ali express.


 
 Hi Danneq, how do you like the Erqu EQ300? Recently I tried the Erqu EQ320, I like it a lot but looks like no one here tried 320 before. I want to try Erqu other models, like 300 or 100, hence try to get some info on those.


----------



## ld100

ira delphic said:


> Did tracking info show up or did they just notify that shipped and provided tracking #?


 
  
 Notify... But that's a progress...


----------



## Ira Delphic

Does anyone use *sound isolating earmuffs with earbuds*?
  
 My guess is most here (everyone?) have over ear headphones in addition to earbuds. I love my earbuds but only for use in quiet places since I keep the volume at lower levels. I'm going to pick up a pair of "ClearArmor 141001 Safety Ear Muffs " or similar. I have jobs where I'm right next to live music and earplugs don't cut it. I also reckon they'd be good for use with earbuds, and comments from Amazon say that is possible. Of course it would change the sound for better or worse. Likely worse.
  
 This is the ClearAmor. Not so stylish and pretty large!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> Well, I wouldn't call it "bass bleed" It's just that bass feels deep with rock and metal and that sort of takes away some of the focus from mids and highs. I agree that bass is well controlled. But even if I like deep bass, I sort of prefer it to be a bit lighter in earbuds that focus more on details and soundstage. Otherwise it takes away some of the listener's focus from those things...
> 
> Thanks. He's all right. Just an upset stomach. It might be a virus or something so we're keeping him home this week...
> 
> By the way, now the QFreds are up to perhaps 20 hours and the mid bass bump isn't as noticable. I'll try to keep them working in the weekend so that they reach at least the recommended minimun 60 hours...


 
  
 Glad to hear that he is doing all right mate!

 Yes, I am not that particular about bass in my earbuds too. In fact, I think I might be a treble and soundstage head...but damn $200 is really a lot of mollah.....


----------



## Willber

ira delphic said:


> My guess is most here (everyone?) have over ear headphones in addition to earbuds.


 
 To help your 'survey' just IEMs and earbuds for me (and the IEMs are gathering dust).


----------



## Ira Delphic

willber said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > My guess is most here (everyone?) have over ear headphones in addition to earbuds.
> ...


 
  
 Would you ever walk around with sound isolating earmuffs and earbuds? I might if I found the right ones. A big if...


----------



## Danneq

haiku said:


> Danneq
> I don´t want him to change his mind. I only wanted to understand what he doesn´t like about the EO320. His first answers were unspecific and vague, so I asked again. That´s all. I too admire what he´s done for all of us, so far.


 

 Well, perhaps "change his mind" wasn't the best way to express what I wanted to say. ClieOS has got his preferences and also his sources and the type of music he listens to might affect how he perceives earbuds. I really liked Tomahawk and hyped it a bit here, but I think that probably 30-40% of the people who bought Tomahawk liked it. Most people did not like it. But I noticed that people who listen to rock and metal generally liked Tomahawk (and yes, the highs can be a bit sharp sometimes).

  


tintheman said:


> Hi Danneq, how do you like the Erqu EQ300? Recently I tried the Erqu EQ320, I like it a lot but looks like no one here tried 320 before. I want to try Erqu other models, like 300 or 100, hence try to get some info on those.


 

 For the price of the EQ300, around $20, they were pretty great. There was only a sort of "splashy" effect of the highs that I thought was strange. But that might go away or at least become reduced as I use them. They are definitely around the level of Monk+ and TY HiZ 32 and in a way better as they are sort of natural as Monk+ but also with some of the "fun" aspects of TY HiZ 32. I think @Tomasz2D has got a pair of Erqu EQ100...
 And I actually bought a pair of EQ100 on Taobao (through Taobaoring) before I ordered Cypherus QFred 2 weeks ago. But the order has taken a long time and just the other day the EQ100 reached the warehouse of Taobaoring. They have not sent them out yet, so it might take 3-4 weeks before they reach me.
  


audionewbi3 said:


> Glad to hear that he is doing all right mate!
> 
> Yes, I am not that particular about bass in my earbuds too. In fact, I think I might be a treble and soundstage head...but damn $200 is really a lot of mollah.....


 

 Yeah, $200 is a bit much for a pair of earbuds with generic MX400 housing. But as these mature with burn in, still a little bit over 20 hours, I'm starting to understand that they are special little gems. Instrument placement and also layering of instruments is top notch for headphones (not just earbuds). It's not really treble head or "mid head" earbuds even if there's a main focus on mids. Highs are clear as a bell but not too sharp in my ears. Soundstage is more narrow than Mojito but has got good depth. Herry of Cypherus wrote to me that QFred go well with classical music (apparently better than CampFred).

 Anyway, I will not hype Cypherus earbuds. They are made in tiny batches so they can sell out fast despite the price. I want a pair of CampFred before they might sell out. So I'll not write much more about QFred from now. I'll just report when they reach 60 hours.


----------



## Willber

ira delphic said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > ira delphic said:
> ...


 
 Not sure...


----------



## luckyeights

willber said:


> To help your 'survey' just IEMs and earbuds for me (and the IEMs are gathering dust).


 
 I used to try to use IEMs but after spending tons of money on tips and never being able to get them to stay sealed for even the length of an entire song iv given up on them.  iv tried virtually every tip and size on the market and no matter what they always lose their seal.  This is where ear buds come in put them in and forget about them no adjusting them every 30 seconds.  Switching to ear buds at least for me was like a huge relief and breath of fresh air for on the go listening.


----------



## Spider fan

townyj said:


> Serious question.. does anyone know where i can buy foams that are thick? Or thicker than most. The cable on my Red Demun tends tug on the left earbud and the seal breaks. I have doubled up foams but it makes them a tad veiled.. received my edimun v3 today and the fit is alot better just because the cable isnt so stiff.


 

 Have you tried to use rubber rings yet?  Rings combined with a cable collar clip are the only way I can remotely keep the Zen blacks in my ears.  Even with that I have to reset them every couple of songs.  Maybe rings and foam could be an option.


----------



## Ira Delphic

spider fan said:


> townyj said:
> 
> 
> > Serious question.. does anyone know where i can buy foams that are thick? Or thicker than most. The cable on my Red Demun tends tug on the left earbud and the seal breaks. I have doubled up foams but it makes them a tad veiled.. received my edimun v3 today and the fit is alot better just because the cable isnt so stiff.
> ...


 
  
 Or try the earhooks in the EX-PACK. It does a good job for me keeping the MP in the correct position.


----------



## Spider fan

ira delphic said:


> Or try the earhooks in the EX-PACK. It does a good job for me keeping the MP in the correct position.


 
 That is a good suggestion.  I have also seen @golov17 use the earhooks but cutoff the actual hook.  It kind of creates a thicker fuller ring.  The only thing I was wary of the earhooks or cutup earhooks was that they cover up some of the vents on the back side of the zens/monks.  It may of been just in my mind but I thought I lost some of the bass. 
  
 He would be using them with the Red Demun so I have no clue where the vents on the backside would be on them and if they would be blocked.  Who knows blocking the vents may even improve the sound.  You never know until you try.


----------



## Willber

ira delphic said:


> spider fan said:
> 
> 
> > townyj said:
> ...


 
 Yes, the earhooks re good. I use them with my EO320 which are the only buds I wear without foams.


----------



## jant71

ira delphic said:


> I'm happy with the widely ignored Sennheiser MX 680 cheap refurbs. After mental burn in they are pretty good. But to be avoided by bass heads.


 

 Yep, shame they don't have the bass amount that their brother, the PMX680, could have for me but it is good quality bass. Still like them though right there with the Hi-Z32 and Monk. Would have loved right in between the PMX' bassy, less treble and the MX' Just enough bass and maybe a bit much treble.
  
 Gotta get one of those 1More's it seems. RX-1 not enough bass, TY 32 not enough bass out and on the move, MX680 needs bass EQ as well, CP700 needs bass too(or a firmer headband since the driver is very solid). Way too much of this lately. At least they only cost $50 total  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Raketen

Sometimes I double up earplugs and earmuffs- I try to use them with an IEM in one ear at work sometimes but even with something tiny like Rockets it is not the most comfortable so hard to imagine with earbuds- maybe if your ear is very small or if the cups are very large...



ira delphic said:


> Does anyone use *sound isolating earmuffs with earbuds*?
> 
> My guess is most here (everyone?) have over ear headphones in addition to earbuds. I love my earbuds but only for use in quiet places since I keep the volume at lower levels. I'm going to pick up a pair of "ClearArmor 141001 Safety Ear Muffs " or similar. I have jobs where I'm right next to live music and earplugs don't cut it. I also reckon they'd be good for use with earbuds, and comments from Amazon say that is possible. Of course it would change the sound for better or worse. Likely worse.


----------



## tintheman

Hi, does anyone know if I could just buy the earhooks in the EX-PACK since each pack only comes 2 pairs of them. I am trying to get the same type with different material, maybe in Aliexpress somewhere?


----------



## Brian Coffey

tintheman said:


> Hi, does anyone know if I could just buy the earhooks in the EX-PACK since each pack only comes 2 pairs of them. I am trying to get the same type with different material, maybe in Aliexpress somewhere?


 
 I know they are available. Here is a link to some in my cart.  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2pcs-lot-Silicone-Earphone-Ear-Hooks-Plugs-Tips-Earhook-Earplug-For-In-ear-Headphone-Accessories/32711686551.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.503.9NhkE9


----------



## Willber

brian coffey said:


> tintheman said:
> 
> 
> > Hi, does anyone know if I could just buy the earhooks in the EX-PACK since each pack only comes 2 pairs of them. I am trying to get the same type with different material, maybe in Aliexpress somewhere?
> ...


 

 They are made for IEMs so might be too small for earbuds.
  
 Here some in different colours:
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-Pairs-Silicone-Ear-Pads-buds-Tips-In-Ear-Headset-Earbuds-Eartips-Earplugs-for-15-17mm/32676226992.html


----------



## tintheman

Thanks guys, big help...


----------



## QmanLP

Can anyone link me their favourite pair of buds? Looking for anything under $100. Thanks.


----------



## Sempenyi

townyj said:


> I have tried the Feng Full foams and Hiegi donuts.. didnt like either pair to be honest. Not much difference compared to the ones supplied. Might have to get Hiegi full foams and try them.
> Havent worn the Demun that way actually. Might give it a try
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 try sony (forgot the series) or audio technica er-40 then.
   
 Quote:


qmanlp said:


> Can anyone link me their favourite pair of buds? Looking for anything under $100. Thanks.


 
 Ting, Red Demun, Crow, Edimun V3, Tomahawk


----------



## purplesun

Something old. Something new. 



Hidizs AP60 2016
Auglamour RX-1 2016
Cresyn LMX-E700 2006
Nano 2nd gen. 2006

Both setups have similar sound signatures. Killer midranges with good clarity & treble. Bass rolls off early. RX1 setup has a slightly darker sound.


----------



## Sempenyi

anyone here listening to ghibli's movie soundtrack ? what is the best earbud to listen them for under 20 USD ?


----------



## QmanLP

Thank you, do you know where I can find these online?


----------



## purplesun

qmanlp said:


> Thank you, do you know where I can find these online?


 

 Which post and what are you referring to?
 Use the quote button to refer to the post.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

sempenyi said:


> anyone here listening to ghibli's movie soundtrack ? what is the best earbud to listen them for under 20 USD ?


 
 My main play list is comprised of mostly the works of Joe Hisaishi. 
 Not sure about the price now, but get the folloiwng

 DIY dual drivers:
http://penonaudio.com/Earphones/earbuds/DIY-PHEB01-Earbuds
  
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=2013.1.20141001.1.IRr6TY&id=37119460429&scm=1007.10115.53307.100200300000000&pvid=5026a00a-6f71-4954-a46a-455268e3d3a8&idnum=0
  
 or its little brother

 The Lingsi:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.23.OcurOB&id=38265311694&ns=1&abbucket=13#detail


----------



## QmanLP

purplesun said:


> Which post and what are you referring to?
> Use the quote button to refer to the post.


 
 Yeah my bad I'm new to this.


----------



## music4mhell

qmanlp said:


> purplesun said:
> 
> 
> > Which post and what are you referring to?
> ...


 
 You new but you joined 4 years back in 2012


----------



## Townyj

Holy smokes the Edimun V3 is fantastic sounding. Sheesh... keen to see where the Heavenly Sounds Concerto ends up. May need to add them to my collection


----------



## QmanLP

music4mhell said:


> You new but you joined 4 years back in 2012


 
 Yeah I know lol. I just never used my account until now.


----------



## golov17

qmanlp said:


> Yeah I know lol. I just never used my account until now.


goes in the shadow?


----------



## rockingthearies

Hi I posted this in the chinese and asian brand thread so I apologise for those that have to read it again. I am looking for a sub $100 portable (anything that fits in a pelican 1050 case) dac. I am torn between fiio e10k and the ZuperDac. Any ideas which i should go with or any other dacs to suggest?


----------



## music4mhell

rockingthearies said:


> Hi I posted this in the chinese and asian brand thread so I apologise for those that have to read it again. I am looking for a sub $100 portable (anything that fits in a pelican 1050 case) dac. I am torn between fiio e10k and the ZuperDac. Any ideas which i should go with or any other dacs to suggest?


 
 Hidiz AP60 .. it has DAC input ... cheap and nice !


----------



## JASru

Ali sale incoming.
 Hoarding coupons is upon us!


----------



## JASru

Currently if you subscribe to the shop you get 10 coins. If you unsubscribe you can repeat.
 Dunno if it is a bug or a supposed action.


----------



## music4mhell

I am just thinking, if aliexpress wasn't there, what would have happened to us


----------



## JASru

Bug fixed. 
 Some coins mined though =D
 UPD: or not. It just has Captcha now. So if you want to use this way of mining you need to do it manualy.


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> I am just thinking, if aliexpress wasn't there, what would have happened to us


 

 T


----------



## JASru

Can someone test if the subscribing-deleting still works?


----------



## luedriver

sorry for OOT question, but does anyone else have problems with penonaudio website recently?
  
 I can't see any menus or my account or anything, is anyone else having this problem?


----------



## JASru

luedriver said:


> sorry for OOT question, but does anyone else have problems with penonaudio website recently?
> 
> I can't see any menus or my account or anything, is anyone else having this problem?


 
 Same. I use Chrome on PC.


----------



## the diode

Im having the same issue on my MacBook using Safari.


----------



## luedriver

jasru said:


> Same. I use Chrome on PC.


 
 also use chrome, but tried it with firefox, didn't change anything, maybe they are trying to fix the site or something


----------



## golov17

Good on mobile Chrome..


----------



## music4mhell

TY650 is in my Top 3 Earbuds now easily...
  
 The good thing abt TY650 is that you don't get any fatigue of long listening sessions... It's so nice and enjoyable...


----------



## Willber

luedriver said:


> sorry for OOT question, but does anyone else have problems with penonaudio website recently?
> 
> I can't see any menus or my account or anything, is anyone else having this problem?


 
 I'm using Firefox on Win 7 and can see all the products but no menu or account details at the top.


----------



## luedriver

willber said:


> I'm using Firefox on Win 7 and can see all the products but no menu or account details at the top.


 
 same on windows 10
  
 edit, I am getting the impression that it (penonaudio site is locked on mobile style), kinda cheated my way to my account by adding something to my wishlist, then quickly clicking on the link that pops up taking you to the wishlist and menu for accounts and order history


----------



## Willber

I have reported it to both of Penaudio's email adds, here is what I got back:
  
*Dear friend,
 Good day!
 we are on vacation for Chinese new year.
 If there're any product problems and shipping issues of the item ,please email to us .
 we'll attend to your mail and resolve for you after coming back from holidays immediately.
 your understanding will be highly appreciated.
 best wishes to you!*
  
*Hi, dear friend：*
*we are glad to hear from you , but we are sorry that we are having weekends now ,**so all the orders **during this period **will be shipped out on Oct 31th,  all the emails will be replied on **Oct 31th**.*
*If you have any questions ,pls just feel free to contact us , we will reply you ASAP once we go back to the office . *
*Your understanding will be much appreciated .*
*best regards.*
  
 Looks like we will have to wait till next week.


----------



## music4mhell

willber said:


> I have reported it to both of Penaudio's email adds, here is what I got back:
> 
> *Dear friend,
> Good day!
> ...


 
 Luckily they have shipped my Shozy BK and it has crossed China according to Hongkong Post !


----------



## Nachash

I've found the biggest weakness of the SHE3800, it can't keep up with fast and/or congested music. It's a shame because as far as sound goes I really like them.


----------



## golov17

nachash said:


> I've found the biggest weakness of the SHE3800, it can't keep up with fast and/or congested music. It's a shame because as far as sound goes I really like them.


go to Edimun's


----------



## music4mhell

nachash said:


> I've found the biggest weakness of the SHE3800, it can't keep up with fast and/or congested music. It's a shame because as far as sound goes I really like them.


 
 Go for TY650 !


----------



## Nachash

golov17 said:


> go to Edimun's


 
 Where? which one?


----------



## golov17

nachash said:


> Where? which one?


 http://www.head-fi.org/t/811150/demun-bengkel-macro/195#post_12887747


----------



## sierras

This is a huge thread with a lot of contenders.
  
 Is there a general consensus for a stand out set of buds (not on ear or IEM) up to approx. £50/60?
  
 I've used some old HisSound PAA-1 in the past that were OK and even the buds with my Samsung S7E with their gel shapes are much better than standard offerings but I'm after something better to use during exercise.
  
 I do not get on with ANY IEMs, hence their exclusion.


----------



## Ira Delphic

jasru said:


> Can someone test if the subscribing-deleting still works?


 
  
 It fails intermittently.  Just wait and it will return.


----------



## Ira Delphic

qmanlp said:


> Can anyone link me their favourite pair of buds? Looking for anything under $100. Thanks.


 
  
 Start at post 600 or 700 in this thread and skim/read every post to the present. But based on your question, there is a high probability imo that a Monk+ is all you need! Seriously amazingly good and well under $100. Shipping is fast considering - takes about 10 or 11 days total time to reach the NE US my last couple of orders.
  
 www.veclan.com


----------



## JASru

ira delphic said:


> It fails intermittently.  Just wait and it will return.


 
 It is not working, at least for me. 
 Well, anyway I mined enough for this sale.


----------



## golov17

sierras said:


> This is a huge thread with a lot of contenders.
> 
> Is there a general consensus for a stand out set of buds (not on ear or IEM) up to approx. £50/60?
> 
> ...


VE Asura2.0 so nice


----------



## b0ssMax

campfred! so good, i bought a second pair! and most likely get a qfred.


----------



## golov17

mrmax said:


> campfred! so good, i bought a second pair! and most likely get a qfred.


 50-60£?


----------



## b0ssMax

golov17 said:


> 50-60£?


 

 i get it from one of my dealers here, so comes to around $200, with the tax, shipping etc.
  
 the first pair of campfred i actually ordered new at that price, but i couldn't wait and bought one used when it was posted locally at a considerable discount. will get the new one in a few days. plan is to convert one to 2.5 trrs.


----------



## sierras

golov17 said:


> VE Asura2.0 so nice


 

 Thanks for the reply,
 I had a quick read up, the reference to Grado-like sound is a little off putting for me as I associate that with bright sounding.
  
 Apart from whatever I settle on I will also get some Monk+, if i don't like them I know my son will!


----------



## Danneq

sierras said:


> Thanks for the reply,
> I had a quick read up, the reference to Grado-like sound is a little off putting for me as I associate that with bright sounding.
> 
> Apart from whatever I settle on I will also get some Monk+, if i don't like them I know my son will!


 

 Monk+ is actually a great place to start and you might like them enough to keep them. Monk+ can compete with many other earbuds priced around $30-40. There's also TY HiZ HP-32 which also costs around $5 and sounds a bit different from Monk+. If Monk+ is more neutral, TY HiZ 32 has got slightly more extended highs and lows and a more "fun" sound signature compared to the more neutral one of Monk+. Even if I nowadays more focus on $100+ earbuds I keep coming back to those two...


----------



## Willber

sierras said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > VE Asura2.0 so nice
> ...


 
  
 Why not get a couple of budget earbuds (eg Monk+, Hi-Z 32, SHE3800, Qian39) for around $5 each to see which signatures you like and which direction you want to go from there? You might even find you're happy with one of them.


----------



## Ira Delphic

raketen said:


> Sometimes I double up earplugs and earmuffs- I try to use them with an IEM in one ear at work sometimes but even with something tiny like Rockets it is not the most comfortable so hard to imagine with earbuds- maybe if your ear is very small or if the cups are very large...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 By earmuffs I mean these - the kind used by construction workers, etc. to block sound, not keep ears warm.
  
 According to the reviews there's plenty of room for standard earbuds like Monk+ or Shozy Cygnus. I need them anyway so I'll test on Monday when they arrive. There are other bulkier ones with better sound isolation, but I chose these because a little more stylish and more importantly low profile, not as bulky.
 I got the idea when flying. I was using the closed back over ear headphones that I used back then and still too much sound was leaking in and I didn't want to crank up the volume to high to overwhelm it. I had some IEM's handy, and with the headphones unplugged and the IEM's in, it was effective at sound isolation. So these sound isolating earmuffs + IEM's are worth trying too. Very light and fold up, and cheap lol!


----------



## sierras

willber said:


> Why not get a couple of budget earbuds (eg Monk+, Hi-Z 32, SHE3800, Qian39) for around $5 each to see which signatures you like and which direction you want to go from there? You might even find you're happy with one of them.


 

 That's a very sensible suggestion, thanks.


----------



## JASru

Received the probably fake ATH c770 from Ebay. The plastic bag says cresyn... Hmmm I wonder there I have seen this name  They are not total ****. Need some time with them. I guess there were more people who got them.


----------



## JASru

Btw I finally received my SHE3800 and second TP-16. The TY-HIZ 32 is almost two month in transit though.


----------



## ld100

ld100 said:


> I am not too happy with the Tomahawk. I would not advise getting it as your main earbud. I almost sold it to another member, but then I did not. I do use it and enjoy it sometimes, but would not recommend buying it...


 
  
 Just a little update on Tomahawks. I still hate them directly out of Mac or iPhone. I do not like them out of DragonFly... But this is a case of Jekyll and Hyde with good amplification. Connected with a powerful integrated amp they sound absolutely different. I am tempted to say I like them quite a lot that way. Weird, but seems to be the case for me. They are quite good amplified. I am quite surprised, but the sound is very different and satisfying. Tomahawks might be moving from earbuds I hate to keepers.


----------



## boblauer

willber said:


> Why not get a couple of budget earbuds (eg Monk+, Hi-Z 32, SHE3800, Qian39) for around $5 each to see which signatures you like and which direction you want to go from there? You might even find you're happy with one of them.


 
 I'd add the TP-16 and possibly RX1 to that list if you want to spend just under $20.


----------



## fairx

ld100 said:


> Just a little update on Tomahawks. I still hate them directly out of Mac or iPhone. I do not like them out of DragonFly... But this is a case of Jekyll and Hyde with good amplification. Connected with a powerful integrated amp they sound absolutely different. I am tempted to say I like them quite a lot that way. Weird, but seems to be the case for me. They are quite good amplified. I am quite surprised, but the sound is very different and satisfying. Tomahawks might be moving from earbuds I hate to keepers.




Tomahawk don't change much with amplification from my experience. I like It as is. With my amp the mids are push back a little and not that forward. But only a little. It does sounds best with warmer source. IMHO Maybe there's something different with your tomahawk to begin with.


----------



## Danneq

ld100 said:


> Just a little update on Tomahawks. I still hate them directly out of Mac or iPhone. I do not like them out of DragonFly... But this is a case of Jekyll and Hyde with good amplification. Connected with a powerful integrated amp they sound absolutely different. I am tempted to say I like them quite a lot that way. Weird, but seems to be the case for me. They are quite good amplified. I am quite surprised, but the sound is very different and satisfying. Tomahawks might be moving from earbuds I hate to keepers.


 

 Tomahawk seems to be very sensitive to sources. I noticed the other day that my Tomahawks do not agree with my Cowon X5. Highs become too piercing. With "darker" or warmer sources the Tomahawks sound really good.
 It's a question of synergy. When I had fewer DAPs and earbuds I used to compare and make small charts on how good the synergy was so that I could find the optimal combination for each DAP/earbud, but that was a long time ago. I have thought about doing it again but now there are so many new earbuds being released that I do not have the time or energy to do that...


----------



## Willber

boblauer said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Why not get a couple of budget earbuds (eg Monk+, Hi-Z 32, SHE3800, Qian39) for around $5 each to see which signatures you like and which direction you want to go from there? You might even find you're happy with one of them.
> ...


 
 From my experience I wouldn't add the RX-1, but anyway, if you're going to go up to $20 then the list becomes so long that the point of the exercise is lost IMO.


----------



## tinkertailor

danneq said:


> now there are so many new earbuds being released that I do not have the time or energy to do that...


 
 I have been following earbuds for maybe the last 3 years. I feel like since Dasetn there has been an explosion in chinese made earbuds. When I see everything available now I'm overwhelmed. It could be just my perception since only researching earbuds online the last 3 years. I also wonder if aliexpress opening up has made things more available to the west? Although I'm not sure why sellers like JIMHCK are not on Ebay. Fees maybe?


----------



## Tomasz2D

ld100 said:


> Just a little update on Tomahawks. I still hate them directly out of Mac or iPhone. I do not like them out of DragonFly... But this is a case of Jekyll and Hyde with good amplification. Connected with a powerful integrated amp they sound absolutely different. I am tempted to say I like them quite a lot that way. Weird, but seems to be the case for me. They are quite good amplified. I am quite surprised, but the sound is very different and satisfying. Tomahawks might be moving from earbuds I hate to keepers.


 
  


danneq said:


> Tomahawk seems to be very sensitive to sources. I noticed the other day that my Tomahawks do not agree with my Cowon X5. Highs become too piercing. With "darker" or warmer sources the Tomahawks sound really good.
> It's a question of synergy. When I had fewer DAPs and earbuds I used to compare and make small charts on how good the synergy was so that I could find the optimal combination for each DAP/earbud, but that was a long time ago. I have thought about doing it again but now there are so many new earbuds being released that I do not have the time or energy to do that...


 
 This is so true guys. Although for me this is not as much as bright / warm source pairing problem but rather close / farther source sound presentation. Tomahawk has so direct character. I disliked it when paired with sources that offered  "zoom-in" view like Chord Mojo but I quite enjoy it with sources that offer normal "zoom-out" view.


----------



## Danneq

tinkertailor said:


> I have been following earbuds for maybe the last 3 years. I feel like since Dasetn there has been an explosion in chinese made earbuds. When I see everything available now I'm overwhelmed. It could be just my perception since only researching earbuds online the last 3 years. I also wonder if aliexpress opening up has made things more available to the west? Although I'm not sure why sellers like JIMHCK are not on Ebay. Fees maybe?


 


 Yeah, it started with the small Dasetn hype about 3 years ago. I was one of the people hyping them (I did keep M760 and MX1 until a few weeks ago). I've been following earbuds on Head fi since around 2009 and for a long time there was only Yuin. Blox also released a few different earbuds but too few and too far between releases.
 So I started collecting vintage Sony and Aiwa earbuds. Then the cheap and pretty good sounding Dasetn earbuds came about 3 years ago. Then Tingo etc. From last year or so there are new earbuds coming out all the time.
 You can find Penon on Ebay and I bought from their Ebay store before using their own or the one on Ali express.

 I don't know why JIMHCK isn't on Ebay, but your guess about fees might be right...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

jasru said:


> Currently if you subscribe to the shop you get 10 coins. If you unsubscribe you can repeat.
> Dunno if it is a bug or a supposed action.


 
  


jasru said:


> Bug fixed.
> Some coins mined though =D
> UPD: or not. It just has Captcha now. So if you want to use this way of mining you need to do it manualy.


 
  
 I was able to get 1200 coins before the Captcha popped up.  That is good enough for me right now.
  
 --


----------



## JASru

bloodypenguin said:


> I was able to get 1200 coins before the Captcha popped up.  That is good enough for me right now.
> 
> --


 Exactly the same amount. Seems suspicious.


----------



## JASru

Holyshiet... 3800s are good. Wow! *Slowpoke.jpg*


----------



## vapman

jasru said:


> Holyshiet... 3800s are good. Wow! *Slowpoke.jpg*


 

 Dang. I cancelled my Fasttech order the other day. thought they'd be no good after all.... now this!


----------



## JASru

vapman said:


> Dang. I cancelled my Fasttech order the other day. thought they'd be no good after all.... now this!


Well, there is some strange stuff. I got 3 of them. Exactly same lot from fasttech. 2 are J-cable and one is Y. One of two J's sounds different - muddy.


----------



## JASru

It ain't a problem given the price, but that's just strange.


----------



## vapman

jasru said:


> Well, there is some strange stuff. I got 3 of them. Exactly same lot from fasttech. 2 are J-cable and one is Y. One of two J's sounds different - muddy.


 

 So it would still seem there are good ones and bad ones out there, and that its still a gamble..... interesting.


----------



## JASru

vapman said:


> So it would still seem there are good ones and bad ones out there, and that its still a gamble..... interesting.


Seems to be this way. The different one sounds a lot like TDK I got a big earlier (not completely the same though). Muddy, grainy and with bass bleeding into mids.


----------



## JASru

Are there any ppl who bought ATH-c770 from Ebay in bulk package, which probably is fake?) 
What do you think of it?


----------



## purplesun

jasru said:


> Are there any ppl who bought ATH-c770 from Ebay in bulk package, which probably is fake?)
> What do you think of it?


 
  
 Korean company, Cresyn, used to OEM earbuds to Audio Technica years ago.
 If you see anything Cresyn on the ATH, it's probably not fake.
  
 What's the sound signature like?


----------



## danimoca

Guys, I have set my benchmark on earbuds: the Monk+'s.
  
 I want to buy another pair of earbuds with slightly more bass (a touch warmer if necessary) while maintaining the rest of the sound signature (beautiful mids, airy soundstage and clean-ish highs). Are there any which make this?


----------



## mochill

Zen 2


----------



## vapman

Zen 2 does not have very much bass.


----------



## mochill

Need good source


----------



## Danneq

Isn't Asura 2 closer to Monk+ than Zen 2?


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> Isn't Asura 2 closer to Monk+ than Zen 2?


 

 I think so, although Lee disagrees. However, don't you think if you listen to asura 2 then both original Monk and Monk+, the Monk+ sounds a lot more like the Asura?


----------



## luedriver

jasru said:


> Received the probably fake ATH c770 from Ebay. The plastic bag says cresyn... Hmmm I wonder there I have seen this name
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm still waiting, though with little hope that they are original, time will tell


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> I think so, although Lee disagrees. However, don't you think if you listen to asura 2 then both original Monk and Monk+, the Monk+ sounds a lot more like the Asura?




Well, I sold my Asura 2 (to you ) before I got my first pair of Monk+, but I've seen quite many making that comparison here on Head fi...


----------



## Willber

danimoca said:


> Guys, I have set my benchmark on earbuds: the Monk+'s.
> 
> I want to buy another pair of earbuds with slightly more bass (a touch warmer if necessary) while maintaining the rest of the sound signature (beautiful mids, airy soundstage and clean-ish highs). Are there any which make this?


 

 I suggest the TY Hi-Z 32. It's about $5 so not much lost if you don't like them. Similarly the SHE3800 although some people have reported QC issues. There are also good reviews of the Qian39 but I haven't received mine yet.


----------



## Danneq

Short update on QFred as they now clock around 60 hours. The mid bass "bump" that I first heard with rock and metal has pretty much gone away. Clarity and instrument seems to have increased a bit more. I can now say that these buds have the best instrument separation I have heard in a pair of earbuds, and that includes Aiwa D9 & V99 (the Aiwas are VERY close though), vintage Sonys, Zen 1 & 2, Blox TM7 Sennheiser MX980/985, Rose Mojito etc...

QFred might end up in my top 3. I still have to recable my Aiwa V99 before I decide where that one goes. It's not better than my favorite TM7 but not really worse either. It's just different.

Overall sound signature is different from most other top end earbuds. Blox, VE, Sennheiser etc seem to go more for a sound that can be compared to Sennheiser HD650 - full sounding with good bass and dynamics. QFred more goes for an AKG K701 sound. Slightly thinner, without becoming too thin or harsh, with expansive soundstage and great details. 

If someone has both Sennheiser MX980/985 or Blox TM7 and Cypherus QFred then it's pretty much the TOTL earbudd that they need. Unless you are a manic earbud fan, like most of us here, and want to try all the new stuff coming out...


----------



## Tomasz2D

willber said:


> Similarly the SHE3800 although some people have reported QC issues.


 
 Not really QC issues. They all work fine. It's rather production inconsistency.


----------



## danimoca

Thanks guys!
  
 How do the TY Hi-Z 32 compare to the Monk+'s in terms of sound?


----------



## Sempenyi

danneq said:


> Short update on QFred as they now clock around 60 hours. The mid bass "bump" that I first heard with rock and metal has pretty much gone away. Clarity and instrument seems to have increased a bit more. I can now say that these buds have the best instrument separation I have heard in a pair of earbuds, and that includes Aiwa D9 & V99 (the Aiwas are VERY close though), vintage Sonys, Zen 1 & 2, Blox TM7 Sennheiser MX980/985, Rose Mojito etc...
> 
> QFred might end up in my top 3. I still have to recable my Aiwa V99 before I decide where that one goes. It's not better than my favorite TM7 but not really worse either. It's just different.
> 
> ...


 
 what is closest to Senn HD 650/600 or ATH-R70X sounds ?

  


danimoca said:


> Thanks guys!
> 
> How do the TY Hi-Z 32 compare to the Monk+'s in terms of sound?


 
 Monk plus goes more natural sounding and focus on mid
 TY goes fun sounding with boosted treble and bass for modern music


----------



## haiku

danneq said:


> Short update on QFred as they now clock around 60 hours. The mid bass "bump" that I first heard with rock and metal has pretty much gone away. Clarity and instrument seems to have increased a bit more. I can now say that these buds have the best instrument separation I have heard in a pair of earbuds, and that includes Aiwa D9 & V99 (the Aiwas are VERY close though), vintage Sonys, Zen 1 & 2, Blox TM7 Sennheiser MX980/985, Rose Mojito etc...
> 
> QFred might end up in my top 3.


 
 Interesting, instrument separation is also something, where my 1More Piston easily outclass all my other earbuds. Maybe the QFred are worth checking out.


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> If someone has both Sennheiser MX980/985 or Blox TM7 and Cypherus QFred then it's pretty much the TOTL earbudd that they need.


 
 Can you say something more about MX985 vs. QFred? Is it similar tonal balance but QFfred being more airy and delicate sound? Do you hear any acoustic instuments (like violin, cello) sound coloring in QFred?


----------



## golov17

I prefer Asura2.0 (with simple mod) more than Cygnus, so glad


----------



## Tomasz2D

luedriver said:


> do you have them both? if so, how is the k64's, they are on sale, and was curious what the sound sig is...


 
 I'm sorry I reply this late to your question but just today I could really sit down and check them a bit more.
  
 So, as I have already mentioned in some of my earlier posts here, if you use MP furry foams on all of them, than - Monk Plus, K's64 and Toneking TP16 - that's 3 variations of similar sound. TP16 has the best both extensions and that special and very good Toneking house sound treble extension. Monk Plus has the thickest sound. K's64 is focused more around mids with both extensions rolling off pretty quickly. Still, it offers quite delicate sound, with MP furry foams being maybe even too bright so I preffer it with stock foams.


----------



## Danneq

sempenyi said:


> what is closest to Senn HD 650/600 or ATH-R70X sounds ?




Sorry, I have not heard Sennheiser HD600 or ATH-R70X. Generally VE Zen 2 is described as being close to the sound signature of HD650



haiku said:


> Interesting, instrument separation is also something, where my 1More Piston easily outclass all my other earbuds. Maybe the QFred are worth checking out.



If you are just looking for a good soundstage and instrument separation, sure. But QFred are not "fun" sounding earbuds that will make you tap your toes. They are just incredibly accurate.



tomasz2d said:


> Can you say something more about MX985 vs. QFred? Is it similar tonal balance but QFfred being more airy and delicate sound? Do you hear any acoustic instuments (like violin, cello) sound coloring in QFred?



Acoustic instruments sound very natural on QFred. While MX980/985 has a presentation that is more close to front row, QFred is much more in the back of the concert hall. However the forward mids have more of a front row sound . Overall I'd say that MX980/985 has got a more coherent sound because of the more intimate presentation. With QFred there's a risk you listen more to details than the music itself...


----------



## danimoca

Where can I buy the Qfred's?


----------



## luedriver

tomasz2d said:


> I'm sorry I reply this late to your question but just today I could really sit down and check them a bit more.
> 
> So, as I have already mentioned in some of my earlier posts here, if you use MP furry foams on all of them, than - Monk Plus, K's64 and Toneking TP16 - that's 3 variations of similar sound. TP16 has the best both extensions and that special and very good Toneking house sound treble extension. Monk Plus has the thickest sound. K's64 is focused more around mids with both extensions rolling off pretty quickly. Still, it offers quite delicate sound, with MP furry foams being maybe even too bright so I preffer it with stock foams.


 
 thanks for the reply, with all these earbuds, I am more in fear that I might buy something similar, so maybe I won't buy the k64, I already have the rx1, so I don't think I would need another earbud that similar
  
 also I'm waiting on the ty650 and the (hopefully real) audio-technica earbuds, 
  
  
 side note, with all these posts questioning the quality of the sh3800, I tried them on with my usual tests, plus one, and can say they sound decent, with the tone generator, however there were a few quirks, 1 the low tones, seemed not as low as other earbuds (just going off memory) and 2 the highs (over 16k) there was a weird noise, even up to 20k, Idk what to make of it


----------



## SuperMAG

How the the 1more earbud 320 compare to monk+ in terms of soundstage clarity, separation and imaging. And can it compete with IEMs in clarity and separation say with my **** 4in1.


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> Short update on QFred as they now clock around 60 hours. The mid bass "bump" that I first heard with rock and metal has pretty much gone away. Clarity and instrument seems to have increased a bit more. I can now say that these buds have the best instrument separation I have heard in a pair of earbuds, and that includes Aiwa D9 & V99 (the Aiwas are VERY close though), vintage Sonys, Zen 1 & 2, Blox TM7 Sennheiser MX980/985, Rose Mojito etc...
> 
> QFred might end up in my top 3. I still have to recable my Aiwa V99 before I decide where that one goes. It's not better than my favorite TM7 but not really worse either. It's just different.
> 
> ...


How is the soundstage and imaging of qfred compare to mojito...


----------



## Tomasz2D

A few words from me about K's500 (the cheapest standard version).

 Nice looking buds with this ViaBlue plug and jewelry Y-spliter plus this ring attached to the cable that helps to indicate right earbud (very good idea). Generic MX500 shells that are quite microphonic here - sometimes I can hear the cable moving inside.
 The sound is full and the soundstage is big - inflated like the baloon but still very coherent. Everything is evenly distanced from me, giving me a feeling to be in the centre of the sphere. So K's500 is good at revealing details on soundstage level (like for example Rose Mojito) but not so good at single note/phrase level. The overall tonal balance is stretched into the bass side. Tonality is a bit "washed out" or "gray" sounding - and is pretty similar as in Seahf high impedance earbuds. I just miss here a bit more sparkle that low impedance earbuds usually offer. 
  
 I think above qualities make K's500 rather non-fatiguing earbud that can be good for longer listening.


----------



## kurtextrem

tomasz2d said:


> A few words from me about K's500 (the cheapest standard version).
> 
> Nice looking buds with this ViaBlue plug and jewelry Y-spliter plus this ring attached to the cable that helps to indicate right earbud (very good idea). Generic MX500 shells that are quite microphonic here - sometimes I can hear the cable moving inside.
> The sound is full and the soundstage is big - inflated like the baloon but still very coherent. Everything is evenly distanced from me, giving me a feeling to be in the centre of the sphere. So K's500 is good at revealing details on soundstage level (like for example Rose Mojito) but not so good at single note/phrase level. The overall tonal balance is stretched into the bass side. Tonality is a bit "washed out" or "gray" sounding - and is pretty similar as in Seahf high impedance earbuds. I just miss here a bit more sparkle that low impedance earbuds usually offer.
> ...


 
 although your name is 2D (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), do you have an idea if it would be good for 3D soundstage for gaming?


----------



## haiku

tomasz2d said:


> A few words from me about K's500 (the cheapest standard version).
> 
> Nice looking buds with this ViaBlue plug and jewelry Y-spliter plus this ring attached to the cable that helps to indicate right earbud (very good idea). Generic MX500 shells that are quite microphonic here - sometimes I can hear the cable moving inside.
> The sound is full and the soundstage is big - inflated like the baloon but still very coherent. Everything is evenly distanced from me, giving me a feeling to be in the centre of the sphere. So K's500 is good at revealing details on soundstage level (like for example Rose Mojito) but not so good at single note/phrase level. The overall tonal balance is stretched into the bass side. Tonality is a bit "washed out" or "gray" sounding - and is pretty similar as in Seahf high impedance earbuds. I just miss here a bit more sparkle that low impedance earbuds usually offer.
> ...


 

 All in all, very accurate description, though personally I hear the big soundstage is coming with a price you have to pay: It´s like a 480p movie blown up to 1080p. The soundscape is rather fuzzy. No problem if you don´t know anything better......


----------



## haiku

supermag said:


> How the the 1more earbud 320 compare to monk+ in terms of soundstage clarity, separation and imaging. And can it compete with IEMs in clarity and separation say with my **** 4in1.


 

 I can only say something from my point of view, being a KZ fanboy. My favourite iem is the ATE S, and all earbuds I know, inc. the EO320, cannot compete with it´s full bodied, mature, fun and immensely powerful sound. But if you´d ask me about the best balanced, detailed and least fatiguing earphone I know, I´d definitely pick the EO320. I have to say though, that I prefer the latter a lot more these days. I always get tinnitus when I use the KZ too often. I guess it´s because of the powerful bass.


----------



## Saoshyant

I wonder what the most musical earbuds are.


----------



## JASru

tomasz2d said:


> Not really QC issues. They all work fine. It's rather production inconsistency.


Yes. They all work fine. It is the sound that is very different.


----------



## JASru

tomasz2d said:


> A few words from me about K's500 (the cheapest standard version).
> 
> 
> Nice looking buds with this ViaBlue plug and jewelry Y-spliter plus this ring attached to the cable that helps to indicate right earbud (very good idea). Generic MX500 shells that are quite microphonic here - sometimes I can hear the cable moving inside.
> ...


 So the plug and cable are good enough on simple version? No desperate need to pick an upgraded one?


----------



## Danneq

danimoca said:


> Where can I buy the Qfred's?



From the Cypherus Audio X Facebook page. Just send a message and they will reply. If you write your e-mail address you'll get a mail instead. Payment options are Paypal, Western Union and bank transfers. I chose Western union (bank to bank transfer) since it has the lowest fees.




music4mhell said:


> How is the soundstage and imaging of qfred compare to mojito...



Mojito has got a wider soundstage. QFreds is deeper and taller. Mojito sounds digital with sharp highs. QFred is much more analogue sounding. Even if it sounds thin because of there not beeing too much sub bass the highs are never sharp. QFred also works better with acoustic instruments. The timbre of acoustic instruments is quite natural compared to Mojito.

Edit: imaging is similar but I find that the bass of Mojito sort of gets in the way of mids and highs. Not bass bleed really, but the bass sort of takes away my focus from those other things. Since the soundstage on QFred is deeper and taller, together with less bass, least I get a sense of easier placing different instruments compared to Mojito.

If I now had to choose between Mojito and QFred for a $200 earbud I would easily pick QFred because of the more analogue sound. I have both though and intend to keep both...


----------



## Tomasz2D

jasru said:


> So the plug and cable are good enough on simple version? No desperate need to pick an upgraded one?


 
 Cable and plug seem to be solid. Somebody would have to compare both versions to find out if there are any sonic differences.


----------



## Tomasz2D

kurtextrem said:


> although your name is 2D (
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I've checked them with some Counter Strike and Doom 2016 gameplay videos and they are very good indeed.


----------



## haiku

I´ve noticed that more and more companies and retailers advertise their iem´s also as "earbuds" these days. Rather confusing when you´re looking for a new real earbud.....


----------



## Saoshyant

That's been a commonplace practice @haiku for quite some time.  It's basically only hobbyists like us that even acknowledge there's a difference.


----------



## haiku

saoshyant said:


> That's been a commonplace practice @haiku for quite some time.  It's basically only hobbyists like us that even acknowledge there's a difference.


 

 Ok, didn´t notice it before.
 Atm, I´m watching the VE video from a few hours ago. It´s very interesting how widely tastes can differ. Lee said that for him the MX980 is about the same sq level as the Monk+. For ClieOS it´s Nr.1.


----------



## Ira Delphic

I'm looking to get a TY Hi-Z HP650 or (maybe a Cygnus). Is it worth waiting for the Ali 11.11 sale?
  
 What's the best way to get maximum savings? Better to wait until Nov 11th? I see coupons available now at the popular stores.
 If this discussion isn't allowed let me know.


----------



## ClieOS

haiku said:


> Ok, didn´t notice it before.
> Atm, I´m watching the VE video from a few hours ago. It´s very interesting how widely tastes can differ. Lee said that for him the MX980 is about the same sq level as the Monk+. For ClieOS it´s Nr.1.


 
  
 There is also an old saying - beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
  
 But at least for me, I don't find questioning others taste a necessity, nor is it a must for justification. Live and let live.


----------



## Tomasz2D

haiku said:


> Ok, didn´t notice it before.
> Atm, I´m watching the VE video from a few hours ago. It´s very interesting how widely tastes can differ. Lee said that for him the MX980 is about the same sq level as the Monk+. For ClieOS it´s Nr.1.


 
 He meant it the other way i think - that the Monk+ is at the level of MX980. But you know that Lee is shameless boaster...  or let's put in another way... very skilled businessman with great sense of PR and marketing.


----------



## kurtextrem

ira delphic said:


> I'm looking to get a TY Hi-Z HP650 or (maybe a Cygnus). Is it worth waiting for the Ali 11.11 sale?
> 
> What's the best way to get maximum savings? Better to wait until Nov 11th? I see coupons available now at the popular stores.
> If this discussion isn't allowed let me know.


 
 I'd say wait or try asking for a Head-Fi discount. By the way, based on the opinions here, the HP650 seems superior to the (regular) Cygnus.


----------



## Tomasz2D

tintheman said:


> Hi Danneq, how do you like the Erqu EQ300? Recently I tried the Erqu EQ320, I like it a lot but looks like no one here tried 320 before. I want to try Erqu other models, like 300 or 100, hence try to get some info on those.


 
 If you want to buy ERQU EQ100 mind it has very long cable - almost 200 cm. I think it was designed especially for TV watching  But besides it has this effortless, soft and warm sound. Surprisingly, it can be sibilant but in the way that doesn't bother to much.


----------



## Danneq

Lee almost threw me out of the VE facebook group when I suggested TY HiZ HP32 and Qian39 for a guy who wanted $5 earbuds to compare to Monk+. He really doesn't like some of the smaller Chinese competitors to VE. He seems to respect Edifier, though.

Monk+ is great for a $5 earbud. It can compete with $30-40 earbuds. But it doesn't stand a chance to earbuds such as Sennheiser MX980/985.


----------



## Saoshyant

Bah, silly facebook. That reminds me though, I never got an Ex Pack I ordered, and the order it was to come in took 3.5 months to arrive. With the stories I've heard of Lee, I worry about bringing it up.


----------



## haiku

danneq said:


> Lee almost threw me out of the VE facebook group when I suggested TY HiZ HP32 and Qian39 for a guy who wanted $5 earbuds to compare to Monk+. He really doesn't like some of the smaller Chinese competitors to VE. He seems to respect Edifier, though.
> 
> Monk+ is great for a $5 earbud. It can compete with $30-40 earbuds. But it doesn't stand a chance to earbuds such as Sennheiser MX980/985.


 

 Interesting though what KK said. He said, nobody in China liked MX980 while in production, but once they were out of production, people wanted to have them badly.  So it seems like for some it´s not about the SQ after all.


----------



## Saoshyant

Somehow that reminds me, I need to take a count of all my earbuds that aren't exactly sensitive. My new dap is a hiss-prone midget that seems to drive my HD700 fairly well, so I'm guessing full size & some earbuds are it.


----------



## ClieOS

haiku said:


> Interesting though what KK said. He said, nobody in China liked MX980 while in production, *but once they were out of production, people wanted to have them badly*.  So it seems like for some it´s not about the SQ after all.


 
  
 Have been reading Chinese headphone forums for years now, and have not noticed that. Though I won't deny there were people (seller mainly) who want to hype things up after production discontinuation just to make some money - but that's a very common practice in Chinese forum and hard to fully ban. Any senior Chinese forumer would know that trick. That's why cheap NOS (or many that pretend to be NOS) earbuds sells for much higher price in Taobao these days. But once you know who's who in those forum, you know their opinion never really change. What have changed is price and those who blindly buy into hyped up myth from bad seller.


----------



## Ira Delphic

Glad i don't understand the language. I'd be spending way too much time on those forums! I have to rely on comments by @chicken beer and others, and rare to hear anything. Thanks CliOS.


----------



## Danneq

clieos said:


> Haven't been reading Chinese headphone forums for years now, and have not noticed that. Though I won't deny there were people (seller mainly) who want to hype things up after production discontinuation just to make some money - but that's a very common practice in Chinese forum and hard to fully ban. Any senior Chinese forumer would know that trick. That's why cheap NOS (or many that pretend to be NOS) earbuds sells for much higher price in Taobao these days. But once you know who's who in those forum, you know their opinion never really change. What have changed is price and those who blindly buy into hyped up myth from bad seller.


 

 That's one of 2 reasons that I stopped my vintage earbud hunting (the other is all the great new ones being released all the time).

 Prices of Sony and Aiwa earbuds are much higher now than just 5 years ago. Then you could find a pair of Sony MDR E484 for $200. Now it's at least $300. E282 can go for up to $500 on Ebay.


----------



## SuperMAG

haiku said:


> I can only say something from my point of view, being a KZ fanboy. My favourite iem is the ATE S, and all earbuds I know, inc. the EO320, cannot compete with it´s full bodied, mature, fun and immensely powerful sound. But if you´d ask me about the best balanced, detailed and least fatiguing earphone I know, I´d definitely pick the EO320. I have to say though, that I prefer the latter a lot more these days. I always get tinnitus when I use the KZ too often. I guess it´s because of the powerful bass.


 
  
 mmm, Been hearing alot about ATE S, anyway i wanted to know more in detail i mean, earbuds have their strength which is easy fitting and huge soundstage as in both my monk+ and ty hiz 32 have. but they lack in clarity, separation and imaging that my **** 4in1 and Piston 2 has.
  
 I wanna know if other pricier earbuds are better in these or its just that earbuds are have this weakness vs iems.


----------



## vapman

Is this overkill? 




Quote:


danneq said:


> Lee almost threw me out of the VE facebook group when I suggested TY HiZ HP32 and Qian39 for a guy who wanted $5 earbuds to compare to Monk+. He really doesn't like some of the smaller Chinese competitors to VE. He seems to respect Edifier, though.
> 
> 
> Monk+ is great for a $5 earbud. It can compete with $30-40 earbuds. But it doesn't stand a chance to earbuds such as Sennheiser MX980/985.



To be honest I'm not terribly surprised. I think they have ties with TY but can't confirm that of course. Qian is probably competition though. Not sure where Edifier is based out of exactly? I don't know any Edifier I'd rather have than Monk+ though.


----------



## Raketen

I think one of the aliexpress sellers went so far as to list the K's earbuds as MONK KILLERS or something so not totally surprising they'd be defensive about it in the VE Fanclub, intense competition in the budget bud world... though I think the prices are so low there's probably lots of room for it :veryevil:


----------



## golov17

raketen said:


> I think one of the aliexpress sellers went so far as to list the K's earbuds as MONK KILLERS or something so not totally surprising they'd be defensive about it in the VE Fanclub, intense competition in the budget bud world... though I think the prices are so low there's probably lots of room for it :veryevil:


lol  


Spoiler


----------



## Raketen

golov17 said:


> lol




 that's only because everyone orders monk gets 134 of them!


----------



## golov17

raketen said:


> that's only because everyone orders monk gets 134 of them!


----------



## haiku

golov17 said:


> lol
> 
> 
> Spoiler


 

 Not a fair comparison. The Monk+ are already available for Months.....


----------



## golov17

haiku said:


> Not a fair comparison. The Monk+ are already available for Months.....


 okay, meet at this point after six months...


----------



## haiku

golov17 said:


> okay, meet at this point after six months...


 

 If it´s that important to you,ok. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 For me, with all the hype, it felt like they would be sold for almost a year already....


----------



## kurtextrem

When will the new flagship of Blox be out again? (sth in me hopes exactly on the 11.11, but I guess that won't happen)


----------



## golov17

kurtextrem said:


> When will the new flagship of Blox be out again? (sth in me hopes exactly on the 11.11, but I guess that won't happen)


no, not for this years


----------



## Danneq

kurtextrem said:


> When will the new flagship of Blox be out again? (sth in me hopes exactly on the 11.11, but I guess that won't happen)




Probably closer to 11.11 2017...


----------



## Brandon7s

So I've been following this thread for a couple months now and have slowly been acquiring earbuds in an attempt to find at least one that I fall in love with. Can anyone help me with my next recommendation?

 So far I have two sets of Monk+ (for the price, no reason to get just one!), the TY Hi-Z 150ohms earbud, the RX-1, and the Rose Masya.

I like the MPs a lot; their sound signature is fairly flat and decent for most genre of music. My problem with them is that they sound very "congested" with rock and metal. The instruments all blend together and are impossible to tell apart from each other, same as how a room full of people talking ends up sounding like noise instead of voices.

I started looking for earbuds with more detail and better soundstage and instrument separation. I ended up getting the RX-1 because they are easily available on Amazon. I like them, but they aren't any better for rock since their low end is almost entirely missing. I prefer the MP for that reason alone.

I then ordered the Rose Masya and the Hi-Z 150ohms and those arrived just a few days ago. 

I actually really like the 150ohms! They are the first earbuds I've listed to that have a deep and full low/mid-low end. The highs are a little bit rolled off but that is easily solved by using them with the foams. I've not noticed their instrument separation or soundstage being much of an improvement over the MP yet though.

Then there's the Rose Masya. I really want to like these, but their frequency response signature seems to be missing a huge portion of the lower mids. The bass at the low end is great, but there's a giant hole right above that which is hard for me to ignore. They sound great with acoustic instrument music, but they make anything heavy and with a full band sound hollow compared to my other earbuds. Do these lower mids come out more with burn in? I've only got about 15 hours on these right now, but I'm going to burn them in as much as I can in case that's how it is. Oh, and the highs on the Masya are a bit overpowering for me, and that's using foamies. I find such forward highs fatiguing. However, I like the sound stage and from what I have heard so far, the instrument separation is a big step up from my other earbuds.

Right now I'd say that my ideal headphones would be a cross between the Hi-Z 150ohms full and present lower end frequency response with the sound stage, detail and separation of the Masya. 

In terms of full-size size headphones I'm looking for earbuds with the sound signature of the Hifiman HE-400i. Balanced with a bit of emphasis on the lower end.

One limiting factor in my next purchase is my audio source. I'm running my buds right out of my Galaxy S7 Edge, and sometimes out of my FiiO E10 or my FiiO E18. I don't know how well these things stack up to the stuff you guys are running, but I'm betting these won't be considered good enough to power the Zen 2.0 or other similar power hungry buds to their fill potential.

Any ideas on the next earbuds I should try based on all this?


----------



## golov17

Hmm, maybe Astrotec Lyra?


----------



## haiku

brandon7s said:


> So I've been following this thread for a couple months now and have slowly been acquiring earbuds in an attempt to find at least one that I fall in love with. Can anyone help me with my next recommendation?
> 
> So far I have two sets of Monk+ (for the price, no reason to get just one!), the TY Hi-Z 150ohms earbud, the RX-1, and the Rose Masya.
> 
> ...


 

 First, get a decent dap. Driving high end earbuds with a low fi source does never give you good results.


----------



## Raketen

idk the Fiio stuff but Zen 2 is not so difficult to power reasonably and sound good, have been using a small portable amp with mine, though some pairings do sound better than others (as for sound signautre, I am not sure, it is far from flat, it doesn't sound too congested often but it is not a big soundstage imo)


----------



## Brandon7s

haiku said:


> First, get a decent dap. Driving high end earbuds with a low fi source does never give you good results.


 

 I greatly prefer to use my phone as my DAP, since I listen to a lot of audiobooks and podcasts, and it's one less device for me to keep up with and charge. Plus, If I'm using an external dac/amp like the FiiO E18 I would be bypassing my S7 Edge's audio completely and it would be simply for supplying the media content/storage. Unless the E18's dac/amp is simply not as good as a standalone DAP? I did see a couple that looked pretty enticing, such as the Hidizs AP60. Or would I need to spend significantly more than $80 USD in order for it to be an improvement to my current signal chain?
  


golov17 said:


> Hmm, maybe Astrotec Lyra?


 
  
  Hmm. I've never heard anyone even mention this earbud here. I'll have to do some searches on it.


----------



## Ira Delphic

haiku said:


> brandon7s said:
> 
> 
> > So I've been following this thread for a couple months now and have slowly been acquiring earbuds in an attempt to find at least one that I fall in love with. Can anyone help me with my next recommendation?
> ...



The G7 Edge isn't low fi. The only problem it might have is with earbuds that require lots of energy and a decent headphone amp is a solution for that.


----------



## Willber

brandon7s said:


> I started looking for earbuds with more detail and better soundstage and instrument separation. I ended up getting the RX-1 because they are easily available on Amazon. I like them, but they aren't any better for rock since their low end is almost entirely missing. I prefer the MP for that reason alone.


 
 If you like the clarity of the RX-1 but want more bass I suggest the 1more EO320.


----------



## haiku

ira delphic said:


> The G7 Edge isn't low fi.


 

 Depends on what sources you know.


----------



## Brandon7s

So the more I listen to the TY Hi-Z 150ohms, the more I like it... how do the TY HP-650 and the Hi-Z 320ohms stack up to it? If they are of a similar sound signature, just more detail and sound stage, then that might be just the thing for me.


----------



## tinkertailor

brandon7s said:


> So the more I listen to the TY Hi-Z 150ohms, the more I like it... how do the TY HP-650 and the Hi-Z 320ohms stack up to it? If they are of a similar sound signature, just more detail and sound stage, then that might be just the thing for me.


 
 YOur listening just through your smartphone right? I'm surprised that your phone can power 150 ohm earbuds. Are they loud?


----------



## Brandon7s

Not using them directly out of my S7 Edge, but through my E18k DAC/amp. They are way too quiet directly out of my phone. I think these are the hardest headphones to drive that I own, including my full-sized collection.


----------



## vapman

brandon7s said:


> Not using them directly out of my S7 Edge, but through my E18k DAC/amp. They are way too quiet directly out of my phone. I think these are the hardest headphones to drive that I own, including my full-sized collection.


 

 I have an E18 and it does not have a very powerful output at all. In fact since getting my V10 I have never used it except as a USB sound card all-in-one for laptops with terrible integrated audio. Are you using high gain on your E18? If not I would definitely suggest using high gain mode...
  
 The TY 650 is going to sound a lot more neutral and uncolored compared to most all other buds and especially other TY's. You are probably going to EQ it for a more fun sound. The 320 has a more energetic sound close to the 150, but lacks bass depth and has some upper mids coloration IMO.


----------



## Brandon7s

vapman said:


> I have an E18 and it does not have a very powerful output at all. In fact since getting my V10 I have never used it except as a USB sound card all-in-one for laptops with terrible integrated audio. Are you using high gain on your E18? If not I would definitely suggest using high gain mode...
> 
> The TY 650 is going to sound a lot more neutral and uncolored compared to most all other buds and especially other TY's. You are probably going to EQ it for a more fun sound. The 320 has a more energetic sound close to the 150, but lacks bass depth and has some upper mids coloration IMO.


 

 My E18 can get way more loud than I would ever want with these TY 150ohms; my phone can get loud enough as long as the source material is loud, but it's far too soft for any of my podcasts/audiobooks and older albums, which are simply recorded at lower levels. I find I don't have to even go past the halfway point with my E18 in low-gain mode, on music.
  
 Neutral isn't bad! I'm fine with that, as long as they don't have gaping holes in their frequency response like I feel my Masya does. I'll continue my research but won't rule out the HP-650.


----------



## vapman

brandon7s said:


> My E18 can get way more loud than I would ever want with these TY 150ohms; my phone can get loud enough as long as the source material is loud, but it's far too soft for any of my podcasts/audiobooks and older albums, which are simply recorded at lower levels. I find I don't have to even go past the halfway point with my E18 in low-gain mode, on music.
> 
> Neutral isn't bad! I'm fine with that, as long as they don't have gaping holes in their frequency response like I feel my Masya does. I'll continue my research but won't rule out the HP-650.




Your e18 should do the 650s just as easilt as the 150s. Its the middle ones that are harder to drive.


----------



## Raketen

MusicMaker TKY2 w/ foams (when I can get them to stay on) turning out very nicely for vocals (particularly female) so far, though still finding the treble (I think) timbre (if that's the right word) a bit odd/difficult to acclimatize to (have noticed overdriven/distorted guitars sound rather off, almost clipped on a few tracks). 

Wouldn't mind more bass but I think that's more a matter of them not sitting in my ears quite right, because it does seem decently extended when I hold them in position (though doing it too much muffles the mids a little). They seem to take some EQ decently too.

So agree w/ other commenter Thomasz so far, not a great all-rounder but with some music very nice indeed.


----------



## Danneq

raketen said:


> MusicMaker TKY2 w/ foams (when I can get them to stay on) turning out very nicely for vocals (particularly female) so far, though still finding the treble (I think) timbre (if that's the right word) a bit odd/difficult to acclimatize to (have noticed overdriven/distorted guitars sound rather off on a few tracks).
> 
> Wouldn't mind more bass but I think that's more a matter of them not sitting in my ears quite right, because it does seem decently extended when I hold them in position (though doing it too much muffles the mids a little). They seem to take some EQ decently too.
> 
> So agree w/ other commenter Thomasz so far, not a great all-rounder but with some music very nice indeed.




If TKY2 are similar to MusicMaker Ting and you have a spare pair of rubber rings with big fins from the Monk+ Ex pack you can cut off the fins with a scissor and then put the rubber rings on the TKY2 and then foams. Perhaps it will make them too big for your ears but the foams will definitely not move anymore...


----------



## luedriver

just got the "audio-technica c770" (was hoping it was the hp650 instead) right out of the box, I can tell that they have a channel imbalance, as the right earbud is louder than the left making the sound seem off center, even compared it to my Cygnus that I had on the desk from yesterday night and its pretty obvious, I suppose I can donate it to the local charity/thirft shop
  
 it came in a small zip lock bag, with a sticker on top
   





> Ear Headset
> 
> *A104*
> 
> CRESYN/SGEY0003721


 
  
 edit* looking up SGEY0003721 shows an earbud by lg here


----------



## golov17

luedriver said:


> just got the "audio-technica c770" (was hoping it was the hp650 instead) right out of the box, I can tell that they have a channel imbalance, as the right earbud is louder than the left making the sound seem off center, even compared it to my Cygnus that I had on the desk from yesterday night and its pretty obvious, I suppose I can donate it to the local charity/thirft shop
> 
> it came in a small zip lock bag, with a sticker on top
> 
> edit* looking up SGEY0003721 shows an earbud by lg here


lol


----------



## fairx

brandon7s said:


> So the more I listen to the TY Hi-Z 150ohms, the more I like it... how do the TY HP-650 and the Hi-Z 320ohms stack up to it? If they are of a similar sound signature, just more detail and sound stage, then that might be just the thing for me.


 
 not sure about 150 or 650, but I have ty 320. if you like TY then 320 is a step up in refinement.
 BUT, if you want better focus ie hear things effortlessly (you mention "lots of people talking" things) then you might want to consider Toneking / MrZ Tomahawak or Ting. I don't own Ting but with Tomahawk it passed the Chesky's "Counting" track in You're Surrounded album. you can track who's who / where and who's not counting properly or making gibberish sound. 
  
 with metal or fast track tomahawk will be more effortless than my TY320. 320 has very very good bass and energetic tone but sometimes the bigger bass or intense attack will overpower some frequency. Tomahawk have slightly less bass and don't reach lower or tighter as TY but to my ear they're adequate and in some way fuller than monk+. the highs also not very clean but not splashy either. the faster or busier the track the more I'm in awe with Tomahawk. and it's just 32ohm, perfectly fine with most portables.
  
 However you might consider some of it's shortcomings. in my case: thicker shell. not much fit but YMMV. cable stiff (maybe just my version). sound might be too forward. You can hear effortlessly but you also might confuse about the headstage, but in my case that's the way it is.
  
 ignore the stage and just pick any instrument you want to hear, rewind and you can pick another instrument to focus, if thats your thing 
  
 just IMHO
  
 edit
  
 after writing this, just for sanity check, I pull out my tomahawk, put VE foams and listen to SOAD, Mars Volta and Arctic Monkey.. superb.  what I write above, stands.


----------



## tintheman

Hi Golov, I know that you collect most of the earbuds, I have listened to the ERQU EQ320 more now and really think the sound is very good. Will you get one to try it out and see if I am just mess up in my head, I really value your input. I am thinking getting a second one on 11/11.


----------



## Willber

willber said:


> I have reported it to both of Penaudio's email adds, here is what I got back:
> 
> *Dear friend,
> Good day!
> ...


 

 Further update just received:
  
*hi dear friend*
*thanks for your email , and we are sorry for any inconvenience caused you , due to our website just complete the upgarde , so there is something issue with it , but pls do not worry , we are recovering it now , it will be resloved very soon .*
*we are sorry for this issue again .*
*best regards*


----------



## golov17

tintheman said:


> Hi Golov, I know that you collect most of the earbuds, I have listened to the ERQU EQ320 more now and really think the sound is very good. Will you get one to try it out and see if I am just mess up in my head, I really value your input. I am thinking getting a second one on 11/11.


 The main thing that you liked it..


----------



## Brandon7s

fairx said:


> not sure about 150 or 650, but I have ty 320. if you like TY then 320 is a step up in refinement.
> BUT, if you want better focus ie hear things effortlessly (you mention "lots of people talking" things) then you might want to consider Toneking / MrZ Tomahawak or Ting. I don't own Ting but with Tomahawk it passed the Chesky's "Counting" track in You're Surrounded album. you can track who's who / where and who's not counting properly or making gibberish sound.
> 
> with metal or fast track tomahawk will be more effortless than my TY320. 320 has very very good bass and energetic tone but sometimes the bigger bass or intense attack will overpower some frequency. Tomahawk have slightly less bass and don't reach lower or tighter as TY but to my ear they're adequate and in some way fuller than monk+. the highs also not very clean but not splashy either. the faster or busier the track the more I'm in awe with Tomahawk. and it's just 32ohm, perfectly fine with most portables.
> ...


 
 Thanks! This sounds very promising.  The Mars Volta is exactly the kind stuff I had in mind when it comes to fast and complex rock music. I'm curious about how the Ting and TKY2 compare. They are all very reasonably priced, so I don't mind spending the amount for the TKY2 as long as it has the characteristics of the Tomahawk that I want, in addition to better refinement. 
  
  Off to do some more research on these and will definitely pick up at least one of them.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

brandon7s said:


> Thanks! This sounds very promising.  The Mars Volta is exactly the kind stuff I had in mind when it comes to fast and complex rock music. I'm curious about how the Ting and TKY2 compare. They are all very reasonably priced, so I don't mind spending the amount for the TKY2 as long as it has the characteristics of the Tomahawk that I want, in addition to better refinement.
> 
> Off to do some more research on these and will definitely pick up at least one of them.


 
  
 I have the TKY2 in transit to me and I already own both Tings (Original Ting and Ting Light).  I hope to have the TKY2 any day now.  I will do my best to compare when I can.
  
 --


----------



## Tomasz2D

bloodypenguin said:


> I have the TKY2 in transit to me and I already own both Tings (Original Ting and Ting Light).  I hope to have the TKY2 any day now.  I will do my best to compare when I can.


 
 Have you tried to clarify with the seller what he meant by telling you that you would receive different version of TKY2 ?


----------



## JASru

What is Ting Light? The green one?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

tomasz2d said:


> Have you tried to clarify with the seller what he meant by telling you that you would receive different version of TKY2 ?


 
  
 I never got clarification.  Maybe it was just the second run?  I was sent a preview photo of them and it looks the exact same.  I will have to double check when I get it, any day now.

 If I get any new info, I will update.
  


jasru said:


> What is Ting Light? The green one?


 
  
 Yes, the Ting Light is the green one.  The normal Ting comes in either Red or Silver.
  
 --


----------



## Raketen

brandon7s said:


> Thanks! This sounds very promising.  The Mars Volta is exactly the kind stuff I had in mind when it comes to fast and complex rock music. I'm curious about how the Ting and TKY2 compare. They are all very reasonably priced, so I don't mind spending the amount for the TKY2 as long as it has the characteristics of the Tomahawk that I want, in addition to better refinement.
> 
> Off to do some more research on these and will definitely pick up at least one of them.




Maybe w/ the right EQ or a better matched source than what I'm using it could be good, but t_o my own preferences_ the default sound TKY2 doesn't seem well suited to the heavier rock I've played, particularly at louder volumes. I think you can do better than TKY2 for those genres (maybe the Ting is, haven't heard it).


----------



## vapman

Isn't the TKY2 a dual driver? I've never heard one that didn't sound strange in one way or another.


----------



## Raketen

vapman said:


> Isn't the TKY2 a dual driver? I've never heard one that didn't sound strange in one way or another.




yeah, though I'm not sure it's to do with the dual driver- not like it's incoherent or there's an uneven transition thing, the treble just doesnt' seem to match up well with certain types of guitar effect, and kinda 'blares out' past an optimal volume (maybe that is related to the dual?) but that could also be this disease I have where anything that doesn't sound like an HD25 sounds a little wrong to me


----------



## vapman

raketen said:


> yeah, though I'm not sure it's to do with the dual driver- not like it's incoherent or there's an uneven transition thing, the treble just doesnt' seem to match up well with certain types of guitar effect, and kinda 'blares out' past an optimal volume (maybe that is related to the dual?) but that could also be this disease I have where anything that doesn't sound like an HD25 sounds a little wrong to me


 

 I just have a feeling that hybrids have problem zones even when you can't really hear them. The Mojito is closest I know to  a no problem zone multi driver... but what convinced me is when someone in a totally different thread - @Lohb if i'm not mistaken? - had re-terminated a hybrid IEM he liked with a balanced termination. Suddenly the tuning was all wrong and sounded completely messed up. He eventually re-terminated it back to single ended and it sounded fine again, implying the tuning was dependent on a shared ground? Anyway, the moral of the story is I don't trust or buy multi driver units anymore. All single driver for me, for now.
  
 Lohb if it wasn't you please accept my apologies for having tagged you. I didn't want to write someone's name and not tag them...
  
 In other news my dang **** hasn't shipped yet! I hate this practice of giving tracking numbers and letting them sit around for weeks.


----------



## Raketen

I haven't heard that many hybrids, those did each have a 'problem zone' for me (but that might have just been the tuning, and not so uncommon w/ IEM in general), but I've owned several dualBA and dualDD IEMs that seemed totally coherent with no transition issues, like the fxt90 and q-jays... this is my first dual driver earbud though.


----------



## ClieOS

vapman said:


> I just have a feeling that hybrids have problem zones even when you can't really hear them. The Mojito is closest I know to  a no problem zone multi driver... but what convinced me is when someone in a totally different thread - @Lohb if i'm not mistaken? -* had re-terminated a hybrid IEM* he liked with a balanced termination. Suddenly the tuning was all wrong and sounded completely messed up. He eventually re-terminated it back to single ended and it sounded fine again, implying the tuning was dependent on a shared ground? Anyway, the moral of the story is I don't trust or buy multi driver units anymore. All single driver for me, for now.
> 
> Lohb if it wasn't you please accept my apologies for having tagged you. I didn't want to write someone's name and not tag them...
> 
> In other news my dang **** hasn't shipped yet! I hate this practice of giving tracking numbers and letting them sit around for weeks.


 
  
 It is not so much a 'problem zone' than probably an issue with crossover circuit. There are a few kind of hybrid out there - namely those using an electronic crossover and those that use an mechanical crossover (including those that doesn't actually have any specific crossover implementation). If an hybrid has an electronic crossover (which depends on resistors and capacitors working in a specific order), than it will only work as intended when driving with a very low output impedance source in an single-ended configuration (as this is the most common configuration). Typically changing from a single-ended to balanced configuration (especially with higher than expected output impedance) will mess up the crossover function and thus changing the sound. It is lesser a design's flaw but more of using something in a way that it is not designed for. This is however not so much an issue for mechanical crossover. Many cheap hybrid don't really have electronic crossover at all so they are almost immune to this issue.


----------



## Frederick Wang

**** PT15 arrived. Package is, well, cheap looking, silver cable looks/feels quite nice.
 I plug it to my cellphone immediately, and the sound is very very very satisfactory, (I'm tempted to say, beautiful), vocal and instruments alike. 
 I have high expectations for these after proper burning-in.
 And to those who haven't bought them yet, take your wallet out, now.


----------



## tinkertailor

frederick wang said:


> **** PT15 arrived. Package is, well, cheap looking, silver cable looks/feels quite nice.
> I plug it to my cellphone immediately, and the sound is very very very satisfactory, (I'm tempted to say, beautiful), vocal and instruments alike.
> I have high expectations for these after proper burning-in.
> And to those who haven't bought them yet, take your wallet out, now.


 
 Give us more...anythinnnggg...lol, the rest of can't wait.


----------



## vapman

tinkertailor said:


> Give us more...anythinnnggg...lol, the rest of can't wait.


 

 give the man some time to listen!
 if only HCK would ship my gosh darn packages!!!!


----------



## teston

frederick wang said:


> **** PT15 arrived. Package is, well, cheap looking, silver cable looks/feels quite nice.
> I plug it to my cellphone immediately, and the sound is very very very satisfactory, (I'm tempted to say, beautiful), vocal and instruments alike.
> I have high expectations for these after proper burning-in.
> And to those who haven't bought them yet, take your wallet out, now.


 
 Nice. I still wait for my package.
 Just now I find that the hiegi donut foam does not alter the treb like MP donut foam, the MP foam makes the sound warmer with more bass and reduce treb.


----------



## vapman

I paid 4 bucks for these HPM-62's and another 4 or 5 on the premade cable. Took maybe 5 minutes to do, and oh my god these are impressive. I will have to shut up for at least a week. I think i'll do the other 2 HPM 62 I'm hoarding....



It could just be new toy syndrome but they're pretty dang nice.


----------



## Frederick Wang

Well, after 5 hours of incessant white noise and pink noise, I plug PT15 into Macbook>Mojo>Stepdance and listen to Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture, a piece of music that could sound like a mess in many earphones, PT15 passed the test. 
  
   
  
 Bass is very realistic but could sound very close. 
 Treble is so nice on this Guzheng performance, I feel there is nothing amiss here. 

 Soundstage is opener than er4s from the same source. 
 Vocals are quite true. 
 Could sound bright from time to time. 
 I tried donut rings but they significantly reduce clarity, so I just wear them naked. 
  
 My ears have been accustomed to er4s, when I had a pair he400i a few weeks ago, I just want to throw them away after several hours of listening. (Well, I didn't throw them away, I actually sold them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) I got angry when such a huge headphone could do so many things wrong. With PT15, I don't want to throw them way
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, if anything, I haven't missed my er4s tonight...


----------



## HairyHeadMara

Received my Stardust today and I can see why ClieOS rates them so high.


----------



## vapman

frederick wang said:


> Bass is very realistic but could sound very close.
> Treble is so nice on this Guzheng performance, I feel there is nothing amiss here.
> 
> Soundstage is opener than er4s from the same source.
> ...




 I almost bought a Guzheng last week.......
 Anyway, to stay on topic, how you compare the **** to your others?
 Really glad I got one at $8... might need a non-IEM style cable for it though


----------



## jrazmar

where can we buy the Shozy BK aside from taobao? Been trying to search via AE but inexistent. Someone please help. Thanks.


----------



## Frederick Wang

vapman said:


> Anyway, to stay on topic, how you compare the **** to your others?
> Really glad I got one at $8... might need a non-IEM style cable for it though


 
 I now have a 1st gen Monk lying around somewhere, I don't have to pick them up to say this: there is no contest. 
 Sony E252 is a unique earbud, wonderful atmosphere, it took a different approach to music from modern earbuds. But I have to say I stand by my time... 
 Bug guy's new 400ohm, I never liked them, they haven't accumulated 10 hour usage since I bought them 2-3 months ago. They gave me this springy kind of feeling. 
  
 ER4s, though not an earbud, but they are my daily earphone. ER4s still do a lot of things slightly better, and much more natural, would continue to be my reference until I buy er4sr, but PT15 is much more large-scale sound. I prefer them strongly for classical music.


----------



## vapman

frederick wang said:


> I now have a 1st gen Monk lying around somewhere, I don't have to pick them up to say this: there is no contest.
> Sony E252 is a unique earbud, wonderful atmosphere, it took a different approach to music from modern earbuds. But I have to say I stand by my time...
> Bug guy's new 400ohm, I never liked them, they haven't accumulated 10 hour usage since I bought them 2-3 months ago. They gave me this springy kind of feeling.
> 
> ER4s, though not an earbud, but they are my daily earphone. ER4s still do a lot of things slightly better, and much more natural, would continue to be my reference until I buy er4sr, but PT15 is much more large-scale sound. I prefer them strongly for classical music.


 

 If you like the Ety sound try a HP650. I'll take all the blame if it doesn't replace the ER4 for you.


----------



## Frederick Wang

jrazmar said:


> where can we buy the Shozy BK aside from taobao? Been trying to search via AE but inexistent. Someone please help. Thanks.


 
 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.16.Q8BaAf&id=537751451188&ns=1&abbucket=9#detail


----------



## Danneq

frederick wang said:


> Sony E252 is a unique earbud, wonderful atmosphere, it took a different approach to music from modern earbuds. But I have to say I stand by my time...


 

 E252 can easily stand up to more modern earbuds. There is less heavy bass, but other than that it's really really good. There is a reason I rank it as no 2 on my earbud top 10 (it might be knocked down by Aiwa V99 and Cypherus QFred once I have decided where to include them in the list).

 People are paying ridiculous prices for Sony MDR-E282 & E484 when E252 is the best of the vintage Sonys!

http://www.sony.co.jp/Fun/design/history/product/1980/mdr-e252.html


----------



## Frederick Wang

vapman said:


> If you like the Ety sound try a HP650. I'll take all the blame if it doesn't replace the ER4 for you.


 
 I am enjoying PT15 for now, will definitely consider them next time I want new earbuds.


----------



## Frederick Wang

danneq said:


> E252 can easily stand up to more modern earbuds. There is less heavy bass, but other than that it's really really good. There is a reason I rank it as no 2 on my earbud top 10 (it might be knocked down by Aiwa V99 and Cypherus QFred once I have decided where to include them in the list).
> 
> People are paying ridiculous prices for Sony MDR-E282 & E484 when E252 is the best of the vintage Sonys!
> 
> http://www.sony.co.jp/Fun/design/history/product/1980/mdr-e252.html


 
 When I say I stand by my time, I mean I prefer PT15 for my taste. 
 On the other hand, E252 really is distinctive among everything I have owned.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

frederick wang said:


> I now have a 1st gen Monk lying around somewhere, I don't have to pick them up to say this: there is no contest.
> Sony E252 is a unique earbud, wonderful atmosphere, it took a different approach to music from modern earbuds. But I have to say I stand by my time...
> Bug guy's new 400ohm, I never liked them, they haven't accumulated 10 hour usage since I bought them 2-3 months ago. They gave me this springy kind of feeling.
> 
> ER4s, though not an earbud, but they are my daily earphone. ER4s still do a lot of things slightly better, and much more natural, would continue to be my reference until I buy er4sr, but PT15 is much more large-scale sound. I prefer them strongly for classical music.


 
 Oh damn, that might have triggered me....the PT-15 good for Classical Music?! 

 Do I really need it? Do I?!

 Please, the gods of audio, let me have the strength to resist.


----------



## Danneq

frederick wang said:


> When I say I stand by my time, I mean I prefer PT15 for my taste.
> On the other hand, E252 really is distinctive among everything I have owned.


 
  
 Nice! Hopefully I'll like the PT15 as well. I couldn't keep myself from ordering a pair about 2 weeks ago and it was shipped a few days ago.

 Anyway, I personally find it strange that E282 and E484 are so sought after when there are other vintage Sony earbuds that are better.
  
  


audionewbi3 said:


> Oh damn, that might have triggered me....the PT-15 good for Classical Music?!
> 
> Do I really need it? Do I?!
> 
> Please, the gods of audio, let me have the strength to resist.


 
  
 At least the PT15 are cheap. Well, compared to QFred, that is...


----------



## Frederick Wang

audionewbi3 said:


> Oh damn, that might have triggered me....the PT-15 good for Classical Music?!
> 
> Do I really need it? Do I?!
> 
> Please, the gods of audio, let me have the strength to resist.


 
 I paid 178 RMB for them with silver cable, a lot of people here paid 5 USD without cable, for that price, or for 10 times that price I daresay, to resist them is wrong, unjust, gods-of-audio-forbidden...


----------



## To.M

audionewbi3 said:


> Oh damn, that might have triggered me....the PT-15 good for Classical Music?!
> 
> 
> Do I really need it? Do I?!
> ...




Resistance is futile... you are doomed,sir! 

P.S. I'm waiting for my pair of PT15


----------



## kurtextrem

frederick wang said:


> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.16.Q8BaAf&id=537751451188&ns=1&abbucket=9#detail


 
 I really wonder why it isn't on Ali yet.


----------



## Frederick Wang

danneq said:


> Nice! Hopefully I'll like the PT15 as well. I couldn't keep myself from ordering a pair about 2 weeks ago and it was shipped a few days ago.
> 
> Anyway, I personally find it strange that E282 and E484 are so sought after when there are other vintage Sony earbuds that are better.


 
  
 I don't know about the international market, but in China, there are some articles hyping E282 and E484, claiming them to be king of kings, and often in words like "improvement upon E252"
  
 I wouldn't be surprised if those articles are produced by vintage audio gear sellers.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> Nice! Hopefully I'll like the PT15 as well. I couldn't keep myself from ordering a pair about 2 weeks ago and it was shipped a few days ago.
> 
> Anyway, I personally find it strange that E282 and E484 are so sought after when there are other vintage Sony earbuds that are better.
> 
> ...


 
 That is very true.....very true. $200 QFred.......

 Edit: For you
https://s.2.taobao.com/list/list.htm?spm=2007.1000337.0.0.94CZln&st_trust=1&page=1&usernick=sunya_20091&ist=0
  


frederick wang said:


> I paid 178 RMB for them with silver cable, a lot of people here paid 5 USD without cable, for that price, or for 10 times that price I daresay, to resist them is wrong, unjust, gods-of-audio-forbidden...


 
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.19.EX2ryM&id=540237505220&ns=1&abbucket=13#detail

  
 Is this the store you bought the PT-15 from? Wonder If I could Wang Wang the seller and tell him that I do not need cables.
 Can you kindly take a picture of the original cable for me to have a look? Is it the "springy" type like the monk? Or soft like seahf 400?
 Kinda spoiled by the cable of the Cygnus....
  
  


to.m said:


> Resistance is futile... you are doomed,sir!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Man Oh Man.....Man oh Man.......


----------



## Ira Delphic

kurtextrem said:


> frederick wang said:
> 
> 
> > https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.16.Q8BaAf&id=537751451188&ns=1&abbucket=9#detail
> ...


 
  
 I would wager it will be on Ali by 11.11!


----------



## Danneq

frederick wang said:


> I don't know about the international market, but in China, there are some articles hyping E282 and E484, claiming them to be king of kings, and often in words like "improvement upon E252"
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if those articles are produced by vintage audio gear sellers.


 
  
 Well, it might be that they have modded them in some way. Perhaps found original drivers and housings and put them together. I don't know. But I more think it's just hype of discontinued earbuds. People can pay a lot of money for stuff that now is collectors items...


----------



## Frederick Wang

audionewbi3 said:


> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.19.EX2ryM&id=540237505220&ns=1&abbucket=13#detail
> 
> 
> Is this the store you bought the PT-15 from? Wonder If I could Wang Wang the seller and tell him that I do not need cables.
> ...


 
 That's the store, but why don't you buy from Aliexpress for a much less price?  
  
 Pictures:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/13245#post_12975752


----------



## golov17

jrazmar said:


> where can we buy the Shozy BK aside from taobao? Been trying to search via AE but inexistent. Someone please help. Thanks.


 https://www.facebook.com/shozyofficial/


----------



## AudioNewbi3

frederick wang said:


> That's the store, but why don't you buy from Aliexpress for a much less price?
> 
> Pictures:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/13245#post_12975752


 
 Ah didn't even know how I missed those.

 I never once used Ali. I buy everything on Taobao as there is virtually no broker fee for me as I just use a warehouse in Ghuangzhou to store my orders then ship them one go back to my country.

 Plus the depreciating Ringgit is going to be a pain if I were to buy in USD.


----------



## Frederick Wang

audionewbi3 said:


> Ah didn't even know how I missed those.
> 
> I never once used Ali. I buy everything on Taobao as there is virtually no broker fee for me as I just use a warehouse in Ghuangzhou to store my orders then ship them one go back to my country.
> 
> Plus the depreciating Ringgit is going to be a pain if I were to buy in USD.


 
 That store is not highly ranked by customers as you can see. 
 I talked to the seller about the 5 USD sale on aliexpress and ask them if they can cut me an early bird deal, the answer was simply: nope 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 They have a particular frigid business style.


----------



## music4mhell

jrazmar said:


> where can we buy the Shozy BK aside from taobao? Been trying to search via AE but inexistent. Someone please help. Thanks.


 
 I bought from Penon at $149. It has reached my nearest post office


----------



## kvik

Received K's 500 today. The cable is quite noisy where it enters the earbud housing (creaking/klicking sound). Is this a common issue with K500?


----------



## Ira Delphic

ira delphic said:


> Does anyone use *sound isolating earmuffs with earbuds*?
> 
> My guess is most here (everyone?) have over ear headphones in addition to earbuds. I love my earbuds but only for use in quiet places since I keep the volume at lower levels. I'm going to pick up a pair of "ClearArmor 141001 Safety Ear Muffs " or similar. I have jobs where I'm right next to live music and earplugs don't cut it. I also reckon they'd be good for use with earbuds, and comments from Amazon say that is possible. Of course it would change the sound for better or worse. Likely worse.


 
  
 I've been testing sound isolating earmuffs for the last few days. I ended up going with Howard Leight Leightning LOF no. 1013461, I chose these because they are light weight, slim compared to others, look similar to headphones, and are inexpensive. I tested with Monk+ (MP).
  
*Sound:* I listened to acoustic, electronic and classical music. At low volumes the MP was very usable. I was walking outdoors in the city.
*Comfort:* I only wore them for 45 minutes at a stretch and not sure if I'd want to wear longer. They fit snugly and my ears got hot. The outdoor temperature was 54F/12C. During the winter they can function as pretty earmuffs to keep ears warm. But I don't think they will be suitable for hot or temperate weather. 
*Fit:* The headband is wide and adjustable. They can be adjusted to proper height. There is adequate depth to fit standard shell earbud comfortably. Larger earbuds probably won't fit.
*Cost:* The model tested cost approximately USD$21. Some cost less and others up to $50. Avoid earmuffs that use batteries.
*Sound Isolation:* Is it dangerous to wear these outdoors? Maybe. the Noise Reduction Rating is 23 for this particular set. Others are higher. 23 is in the ballpark of a standard foam earplug. Low frequency sound can be heard - trucks, helicopters, etc. but at reduced level.
*Glasses:* Pads are pliant foam so surprisingly comfortable with sunglasses and distance glasses that I tried.
*Flying:* Haven't tried it but I certainly will in the near future.
*Weight and Size:* This particular model is very light weight and folds to a compact size. A case isn't included.
  
*Conclusion:* If you really want to use your earbuds outdoors in urban environment, sound isolating earmuffs may be an option for minimal duration use. I wouldn't want to wear these for 8 hours, but occupations such as construction require longer duration use.  Traditional headphones can be more comfortable but I doubt they offer the same level of sound isolation. Using sound isolating earmuffs is a mixed bag. I don't suggest you get them unless you have another use - such as what they are intended for - protecting your hearing during noisy activities. If you have a dream to wear earbuds outdoors in noisy environments, you may just want to go for it!


----------



## Brandon7s

vapman said:


> Your e18 should do the 650s just as easilt as the 150s. Its the middle ones that are harder to drive.


 

 I've been waffling back and forth on whether or not to order the TY HP-650 or go for something else, maybe a Cygnus or one of the MusicMaker earbuds, but after reading your review of the HP-650 today I went ahead and ordered it. Primarily because it sounds like it can be decently driven out of a wide variety of sources and works with a wide variety of musical genres (I listen to a pretty wide variety, more than the Masya is suited for). It also sounds like I won't be disappointed with its soundstage and detail, and since I'm not a bass-head I think I'll be perfectly fine with it's quantity.
  
  
 I'll let the folks here know what I think of it after it arrives, which probably won't be for another 3 weeks at least.
  
  
 I'm going to get a MusicMaker Tomahawk at some point here still, but I figured I'd just continue my dive into the deep end at the moment.


----------



## springbay

kvik said:


> Received K's 500 today. The cable is quite noisy where it enters the earbud housing (creaking/klicking sound). Is this a common issue with K500?


 
  
 My K's 500 arrived today as well. I can notice some creaking/clicking if I twist and turn the cable (version 2).
  
 Other than that, all I can say is dat bass!
 Seriously the bass is from another planet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 And that is straight from my iPhone.
 Let's see how well it will scale with some amping


----------



## kurtextrem

Shozy answers very quickly on Facebook. I've done it, Stardust is coming! (They're sending out in 1-2 weeks and the price will go up slightly after pre-order time)


----------



## kvik

springbay said:


> My K's 500 arrived today as well. I can notice some creaking/clicking if I twist and turn the cable (version 2).


 
  
 Ok, thanks, mine is version 2 as well, and I just need to move the head a little to get the cable noise. Anyway, I am going to let it burn-in for a few days, and then I will look at, what can be done about the cable.


----------



## Danneq

kurtextrem said:


> the price will go up slightly after pre-order time


 


 Damn it!


----------



## golov17

http://penonaudio.com/Colarad-C01


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> http://penonaudio.com/Colarad-C01


 
  
 I'm going to have to unsubscribe from this thread because of you.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 I told myself, no more earbuds for a while (just the ones that are already in transit).
  
 --


----------



## mochill

I posted them on Facebook and he is sharing it


----------



## golov17

mochill said:


> I posted them on Facebook and he is sharing it


 yep


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> I'm going to have to unsubscribe from this thread because of you.
> 
> 
> I told myself, no more earbuds for a while (just the ones that are already in transit).
> ...


nonono


----------



## BloodyPenguin

mochill said:


> I posted them on Facebook and he is sharing it


 
  
 Then I am going to have to sign off of Facebook as well.  I see far too many cool earbuds on there as well.  Haa...
  
 --


----------



## mochill

But ear buds are life


----------



## ld100

golov17 said:


> http://penonaudio.com/Colarad-C01




Look nice. Any info on them?


----------



## golov17

ld100 said:


> Look nice. Any info on them?


new item


----------



## vapman

One weird thing about the HPM 62 is its tone. It's definitely unique but I can't put my finger why. It sounds absolutely perfect to me with my crazy EQ going, but has a totally different character non EQ'd. What weird buds.


----------



## golov17

Any news about **** (sound sig)?


----------



## ld100

golov17 said:


> new item


 
  
  
 It would be nice if they would at least some short description of what that is...


----------



## Ira Delphic

bloodypenguin said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > http://penonaudio.com/Colarad-C01
> ...


 
  
 In transit for me - 
 -K's Earphone 64 ohm   
 -Qian39
 -**** PT15
  
 I'm not too excited about another $15 earbud.


----------



## purplesun

golov17 said:


> http://penonaudio.com/Colarad-C01


 
  
 Beware of Russian bearing gifts!

  
 The red wires do look very similar to the angled extender cables I bought some time ago. I hope they are not the same, as the extender somehow messes up the sound (loses cohesion) of any earphones I plug them into.
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DC3-5mm-Male-to-Female-Extension-stereo-Audio-Cable-15cm-90-Degree-Angled/32262817004.html


----------



## golov17

purplesun said:


> Beware of Russian bearing gifts!
> 
> 
> The red wires do look very similar to the angled extender cables I bought some time ago. I hope they are not the same, as the extender somehow messes up the sound (loses cohesion) of any earphones I plug them into.
> ...


no, this jack good, not same


----------



## golov17

For ****?  
http://s.aliexpress.com/iURNNJBr


----------



## mochill

Pt15 Cygnus


----------



## golov17

mochill said:


> Pt15 Cygnus


 **** Cygnus, lol


----------



## mochill

That is the same cable on Cygnus


----------



## golov17

mochill said:


> That is the same cable on Cygnus


yep, green in future..


----------



## Danneq

And QFred (although the QFred cable feels more like rope and not as soft as the Cygnus cable).


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> And QFred (although the QFred cable feels more like rope and not as soft as the Cygnus cable).


like Seahf's cables?


----------



## tinkertailor

ira delphic said:


> In transit for me -
> -K's Earphone 64 ohm
> 
> -Qian39
> ...




I have those exact ones in transit, lets both exchange our opinions of them when they arrive.


----------



## Kelzo

Does the seahf 150 and ty hi-z 150 has any difference? I already a ty hi-z 150 and it was great for the price but I prefer a little bit of brightness.


----------



## vapman

purplesun the Sony HPM 62 from ebay is most certainly a Sony driver. It has that high frequency range strange sweetness much like the e888.

I don't even know why i bought k's 64, i don't need any more buds lying around!


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> like Seahf's cables?




Perhaps? Of all the Seahf earbuds I have only tried the 32 ohm...


----------



## haiku

danneq said:


> Perhaps? Of all the Seahf earbuds I have only tried the 32 ohm...


 
  

 ....which is the worst of all.....


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> @purplesun the Sony HPM 62 from ebay is most certainly a Sony driver. It has that high frequency range strange sweetness much like the e888.


 
  
 If it's using the same driver as E888, be careful not to over-drive them. They max out at 50mw (10mw ave). An older 16-bit DAP is a better match for them than a newer DAP with big dynamic range. My 10-year-old Nano 2nd gen. goes quite well with the Cresyn. IMHO, their strong midrange/treble clarity will be uncomfortable for many who like darker-sounding earbuds that's more popular nowadays.
  
 EDIT: Made me listen to an old Duran Duran album again. That's been a flat-sounding recording for many years. But the boys sounded much bigger on the Nano/Cresyn. Strange & special Sony drivers sound, indeed.


----------



## haiku

I´ve ordered B&O EarSet 3i´s. I just need more class these days. I can´t stand anymore diy designs with MX500 shells.


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> I´ve ordered B&O EarSet 3i´s. I just need more class these days. I can´t stand anymore diy designs with MX500 shells.


 
 Wish you luck, i am very happy with Yuin and MX500 shells ! I am more concerned about sound always.. !


----------



## haiku

music4mhell said:


> Wish you luck, i am very happy with Yuin and MX500 shells ! I am more concerned about sound always.. !


 

 In comparison to my EO320, my earbuds with MX500 sound distorted, some more some less, for me it´s not bearable any longer.
 Just my experience, it´s great that you´re satisfied with your earbuds!


----------



## Danneq

haiku said:


> In comparison to my EO320, my earbuds with MX500 sound distorted, some more some less, for me it´s not bearable any longer.
> Just my experience, it´s great that you´re satisfied with your earbuds!


 

 Tuning of the driver is the most central aspect. I'm thinking of selling my pair of Rose Mojito. After comparing them to Cypherus QFred they sound artificial and bright while QFred is natural, accurate and very analogue sounding. After QFred I find it difficult to listen to Mojito as the brightness sort of brings out an unnatural "overtone" in all the instruments. If I want more bright sounding earbuds I've still got Tomahawk...


----------



## haiku

danneq said:


> Tuning of the driver is the most central aspect. I'm thinking of selling my pair of Rose Mojito. After comparing them to Cypherus QFred they sound artificial and bright while QFred is natural, accurate and very analogue sounding. After QFred I find it difficult to listen to Mojito as the brightness sort of brings out an unnatural "overtone" in all the instruments. If I want more bright sounding earbuds I've still got Tomahawk...


 

 It´s also fascinating how fast the hearing can adjust to great soundquality. When I started with Monks I loved the sound, now I can´t stand listening to them more than 1-2 minutes....


----------



## Danneq

I still love my pair(s) of Monk+!

 Edit: Also, Blox TM7 still is my unchallenged champion. QFred comes close, with an overall different sort of sound.


----------



## mints

i know i'm asking too much for an earbud
 but if there's something that complements this kind of music (porter robinson - worlds and worlds remixed)
 plz do tell


----------



## tinkertailor

danneq said:


> Tuning of the driver is the most central aspect.


 
 How do most of these manufacturers go about tuning the driver? I imagine a lot of them (especially the chinese manufacturers) are using the same drivers however some are getting (reportedly) wildly different results. They use the same cables and shells, so im guessing quite often the same drivers as well. How could tuning a driver account for the higher prices? DO they each have their little secrets?


----------



## purplesun

mints said:


> i know i'm asking too much for an earbud
> but if there's something that complements this kind of music (porter robinson - worlds and worlds remixed)
> plz do tell


 
  
 TY Hi-Z 32 - Bright & strident sound. The repeated "flanging symphony effect"(?) is a bit too much, but that may be what you are looking for.
 Monk Plus - Quite balanced sound. Tighter percussions. The "flanging symphony effect" was slightly less dominant.


----------



## golov17

purplesun said:


> TY Hi-Z 32 - Bright & strident sound. The repeated "flanging symphony effect"(?) is a bit too much, but that may be what you are looking for.
> Monk Plus - Quite balanced sound. Tighter percussions. The "flanging symphony effect" was slightly less dominant.


Fareal (v1) 64 Ohm good


----------



## Danneq

tinkertailor said:


> How do most of these manufacturers go about tuning the driver? I imagine a lot of them (especially the chinese manufacturers) are using the same drivers however some are getting (reportedly) wildly different results. They use the same cables and shells, so im guessing quite often the same drivers as well. How could tuning a driver account for the higher prices? DO they each have their little secrets?


 

 Well, some use OEM drivers. I know that Blox develops their own drivers. Cypherus uses a driver from cheap earbuds of the small brand Advance and retunes them. Bengkel Macro retunes Edifier H180 drivers for Edimun V3 as does De'mun with the Red De'mun.

 I suppose high prices can often be connected to the cost of materials and limited numbers when it comes to smaller companies. I remember discussing it with Woo (owner of Blox) in an e-mail conversation where he said that Blox cannot compete at all with VE and their Monk earbuds. He instead aims for a slightly higher end with limited production. He sees Yuin as a sort of role model for a company.


----------



## haiku

danneq said:


> Well, some use OEM drivers. I know that Blox develops their own drivers. Cypherus uses a driver from cheap earbuds of the small brand Advance and retunes them. Bengkel Macro retunes Edifier H180 drivers for Edimun V3 as does De'mun with the Red De'mun.
> 
> I suppose high prices can often be connected to the cost of materials and limited numbers when it comes to smaller companies. I remember discussing it with Woo (owner of Blox) in an e-mail conversation where he said that Blox cannot compete at all with VE and their Monk earbuds. He instead aims for a slightly higher end with limited production. He sees Yuin as a sort of role model for a company.


 

 What does "retunes them" mean, actually? How many ways to tune a driver this size are there really? Sometimes I wonder if it´s not just marketing crap.


----------



## Tomasz2D

ira delphic said:


> I've been testing sound isolating earmuffs for the last few days. I ended up going with Howard Leight Leightning LOF no. 1013461, I chose these because they are light weight, slim compared to others, look similar to headphones, and are inexpensive. I tested with Monk+ (MP).


 
 This is one crazy idea to use earmuffs with earbuds that I didn't think of before. Yesterday I tried my earmuffs with earbuds and it really works. I have 3M PELTOR X4A that are rated at 33dB and have very low profile (they use modern isolating material in it) but look industrial unfortunately:
  
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_EU/PPE_SafetySolutions_EU/Safety/Product_Catalogue/~/3M-PELTOR-X-Series-Ear-Muffs-33dB-Hi-Viz-Headband-X4A?N=5023508+3294470120+3294857473&rt=rud


----------



## Danneq

haiku said:


> What does "retunes them" mean, actually? How many ways to tune a driver this size are there really? Sometimes I wonder if it´s not just marketing crap.


 


 As I understand it, retuning can be just increasing or decreasing damping in the housing (even if you do not really mess with the driver) to actually going into the driver to perhaps change or customize the diaphragm or magnet.

 A few years ago I did some simple "retuning" of my Aiwa D9. The diaphragm on the left bud had a small hole in it and that made the left side sound very bad, like a 1 cent earbud. I put some scotch tape over the hole and that cured it and it still works.

 It's probably possible to change the diaphragm's properties by adding something on it so that the resonance changes. But it's probably easier to just experiment with damping of the housing.


----------



## haiku

danneq said:


> As I understand it, retuning can be just increasing or decreasing damping in the housing (even if you do not really mess with the driver) to actually going into the driver to perhaps change or customize the diaphragm or magnet.
> 
> A few years ago I did some simple "retuning" of my Aiwa D9. The diaphragm on the left bud had a small hole in it and that made the left side sound very bad, like a 1 cent earbud. I put some scotch tape over the hole and that cured it and it still works.
> 
> It's probably possible to change the diaphragm's properties by adding something on it so that the resonance changes. But it's probably easier to just experiment with damping of the housing.


 

 Alright, thank you for the details.


----------



## ClieOS

tinkertailor said:


> How do most of these manufacturers go about tuning the driver? I imagine a lot of them (especially the chinese manufacturers) are using the *same drivers* however some are getting (reportedly) wildly different results. They use the same cables and shells, so im guessing quite often the same drivers as well. How could tuning a driver account for the higher prices? DO they each have their little secrets?


 
  
 Actually they are not. For example, SeaHF (including Headphone Association and Hi-Z) makes their own voice coil. VE pretty much does the same thing with a different factory. If you know your way around, you can also buy ready made voice coil, diaphragm, magnet, etc and make your own driver, and different material and construction will result in different sound. Finding the right combination is what cost so much.


----------



## jrazmar

music4mhell said:


> I bought from Penon at $149. It has reached my nearest post office




how were you able to buy from penon??? cannot even find it via browse or search...


----------



## music4mhell

jrazmar said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I bought from Penon at $149. It has reached my nearest post office
> ...


 
 You message him, they will tell you, they have not listed the product yet.


----------



## Ira Delphic

tomasz2d said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > I've been testing sound isolating earmuffs for the last few days. I ended up going with Howard Leight Leightning LOF no. 1013461, I chose these because they are light weight, slim compared to others, look similar to headphones, and are inexpensive. I tested with Monk+ (MP).
> ...


 
  
 I used my earmuffs this morning for the first time with Sennheiser MX 680 earbuds - for a run outdoors in the city. They have foam _and_ earhooks so stay on really well. But they're earbuds so virtually no sound isolation. With the earmuffs I could listen to my music at low volumes, and hear very good instrument separation and details. It was a sublime experience. Noise sources like siren, construction sounds, etc punch through but that's fine for safety reasons. When my run was over I removed the earmuffs - and the music was drowned out by myriad of urban sounds. It was like being in a tropical rain forest but the sounds not so pleasant! My only concern  it is not for everyone. You really have to be careful when wearing sound isolating earmuffs outdoors. Glad you gave it a try!


----------



## Ira Delphic

tinkertailor said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > In transit for me -
> ...


 
  
 Will do. Should be a couple of weeks before I receive all 3.


----------



## vapman

@purplesun
  
 The HPM 62 is not a E888 driver, so don't worry about that. It does share some sound characteristics though.


----------



## Vaanres

Anyone has chance to listen to bose soundtrue ultra, is it good with 120$?


----------



## Ira Delphic

vaanres said:


> Anyone has chance to listen to bose soundtrue ultra, is it good with 120$?


 
  
 Is that in ear? Only earbuds should be discussed in this thread.


----------



## Tomasz2D

ira delphic said:


> I used my earmuffs this morning for the first time with Sennheiser MX 680 earbuds - for a run outdoors in the city.


 
 It won't be long and somebody will start selling earbuds + earmuffs bundles... color matched


----------



## Willber

vaanres said:


> Anyone has chance to listen to bose soundtrue ultra, is it good with 120$?


 

 It looks more like an IEM than an earbud.


----------



## Vaanres

ira delphic said:


> Is that in ear? Only earbuds should be discussed in this thread.




Whoops, it looks like an earbud . I thought it's earpud, i will find another topic, thanks


----------



## MRK1

Finally my AG RX1 arrived! It took nearly 3 months but I guess it was worth the wait. These are just lovely, the build quality seems very good and the sound is very smooth and detailed. These are really good with female vocals, I'm listening to some Jpop and it sounds just lovely, the vocals are liquid smooth, also these are very clear and detailed, every little detail is where it should be.
  
 Soundstage and bass leaves something to be desired, but I actually like the vocals being fired into my ears directly like this sometimes.
  
 Trance sounds great as well, especially uplifting due to the detail and great mids. Even the most complex arpeggiated synths sounds just right. Some track feel a bit lacking in bass though.
  
 Comfort for me is exceptional, they just disappear immediately into my ears.
  
 Very nice pair indeed, totally worth the 17 usd I paid.
  
 My Sony MDR 1A is being jealous right now...


----------



## Blueshound24

Maybe I missed it, but has there been any detailed review, comparisons of the BK Stardust, and is ClieOS the only one who has it yet?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

blueshound24 said:


> Maybe I missed it, but has there been any detailed review, comparisons of the BK Stardust, and is ClieOS the only one who has it yet?


 
  
 They just came out, I think there are only two (maybe three) members who have one yet.
  
 --


----------



## Blueshound24

bloodypenguin said:


> blueshound24 said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe I missed it, but has there been any detailed review, comparisons of the BK Stardust, and is ClieOS the only one who has it yet?
> ...


 
 Yup, I was debating getting on the 'reserve' list and was hoping to get a little input from those who know anything about their sig.


----------



## mochill

My stardust is on its way


----------



## JASru

mrk1 said:


> Finally my AG RX1 arrived! It took nearly 3 months but I guess it was worth the wait. These are just lovely, the build quality seems very good and the sound is very smooth and detailed. These are really good with female vocals, I'm listening to some Jpop and it sounds just lovely, the vocals are liquid smooth, also these are very clear and detailed, every little detail is where it should be.
> 
> Soundstage and bass leaves something to be desired, but I actually like the vocals being fired into my ears directly like this sometimes.
> 
> ...


 Try them with syntwave like Perturbator and Dance with the Dead or Kavinsky. Sounds superb.


----------



## music4mhell

mochill said:


> My stardust is on its way


 
 Mine has reached my country post office


----------



## vapman

HPM-62 rules. Not going to kill any champions or contenders  but they pop open really easily, and are a unique shape/driver/sound - ridiculously natural vocals - absolutely and highly worth it if you can handle picking up a soldering iron to put a new cable on. Mine has a 3 button/mic remote cable. Better than Monk? No way. Different, though. I'll put it halfway between a bassy Dasetn and a RX-1.


----------



## vapman




----------



## ballog

music4mhell said:


> Mine has reached my country post office


 
 Shozy BK is now available ($165 !!!) on Penon webstore http://penonaudio.com/SHOZY-BK


----------



## music4mhell

Guess what, just received 2 Earbuds,
  
 Shozy BK
 1more EO320 (Haiku's Fav )


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> Guess what, just received 2 Earbuds,
> 
> Shozy BK
> 1more EO320 (Haiku's Fav )




I want to know your review of eo320 more than anything.....


----------



## Blueshound24

vapman said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Guess what, just received 2 Earbuds,
> ...


 
 I want to know your review of Shozy BK more than anything.....


----------



## vapman

Well then. Looks like mhell is due for two reviews soon  not that he has a choice in the matter of course


----------



## Fabi

I don't want reviews of these. 
Otherwise, I'll have to buy both


----------



## music4mhell

I won't say anything now .. let me do some listening first at least for 1 hour .. i don't want to be killed by any1 for my comments


----------



## purplesun

Nice cable on the shozy bk. Do all their high-end products come with 8-way braids? Would be nice for DIY work, if the cables are sold separately.


----------



## rockingthearies

Just receive the K 500 ohms first impression: soundstage is really wide, pretty good separation. Female vocals a little bit recessed? Male vocals are decent My source is currently iphone 5s will be switching to LG V20 tomorrow


----------



## justvinh

Still waiting for my Shozy BK to come ahahah, oh god the struggle...


----------



## music4mhell

justvinh said:


> Still waiting for my Shozy BK to come ahahah, oh god the struggle...


 
 The wait is worth it


----------



## kurtextrem

music4mhell said:


> The wait is worth it


 
 what a teaser...


----------



## Frederick Wang

Call me crazy, but I start to prefer PT15 to ER4s by not a small margin, and that hasn't factored in comfort... 
 In comparison, ER4s sound closed-in, dispassionate, and too "dialed down"
 I just bought a 15V Ifi ipower for my Stepdance Amp to get the most out of ER4s, unintendedly, this combo get the most out of PT15


----------



## vapman

frederick wang said:


> Call me crazy, but I start to prefer PT15 to ER4s by not a small margin, and that hasn't factored in comfort...
> In comparison, ER4s sound closed-in, dispassionate, and too "dialed down"
> I just bought a 15V Ifi ipower for my Stepdance Amp to get the most out of ER4s, unintendedly, this combo get the most out of PT15


 
 Oh wow! Really excited for PT15 now :O
 I already know if I like it i'll have to buy a new cable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Is it analytical & neutral like ER4s?


----------



## Frederick Wang

vapman said:


> Oh wow! Really excited for PT15 now :O
> I already know if I like it i'll have to buy a new cable
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It's quite musical to my ears, if ER4s is the definition of analytical & neutral, then no, it took me a while to get used to their signature.
 One thing I noticed when I was watching an interview, is that the voice is so much closer with PT15, at first I thought this is weird this cannot be good, but when I switched back to ER4s, voices become unclear, and ER4s become the weird one... 
 PT15 too can pick up very fine details, so far, there haven't been anything I miss from ER4s


----------



## music4mhell

Early impressions on EO320.. Ok type, thin sounding earbud.
 May be i am comparing to Shozy BK side by side 
  
 But a decent earbud with everything ok type.For me the Vocals are thin.
  
 EDIT : I support @ClieOS List .. i am super happy that his list is unbiased. except for some here and there (Like TY2 and RX-1 above Cygnus and Zen 2  Lol) ...


----------



## jrazmar

music4mhell said:


> Early impressions on EO320.. Ok type, thin sounding earbud.
> May be i am comparing to Shozy BK side by side
> 
> But a decent earbud with everything ok type.For me the Vocals are thin.
> ...


 
  
 hi music4mhell, as far as my reading on this thread is concerned, you are the one who almost have them all (earbuds). whenever you are ready, can you share with us earbud fanatics your current top 3 earbuds and why you choose the #1 to be on that spot? I'm one of those who is very excited about the Stardust.


----------



## luedriver

today I was in the shops and thought I should buy my brother some philips she3590's, while I was there I saw those sony's again
  
 http://www.sony.com/electronics/in-ear-headphones/mdr-e9lp
  
 as always they were 14 australian dollars, and I guess it was all this talk of sony's being an old style earbud, that made me want them a bit more, but I was getting tired of seeing them literally in every shop that sells earbuds, so I caved in and bought them
  
 I didn't wait to get home, and my initial thought was that because I was using the shozy cygnus, that trying them on would make them sound bad in comparison, but no, they only sounded a bit thin, was my first thought, that and how I didn't hate how they sounded, in comparison, I can say that there are many earbuds that I hated straight away
  
 at home, I plugged them in my old kenwood amp and listening to my songs on itunes, I found myself enjoying these low-end earbuds, (with the foams that they came with on, they are pretty thick and makes the small earbud feel bigger in my ear)
  
 they don't have much bass, and the foams improve that a bit, but overall, I don't regret buying them, at least not
yet
  
edit, there was a piece of paper saying the usual specs of the earbuds, but these also said 
  
   





> Feature  300kj/m*3 *high power neodymium magnet is used to reproduce powerful bass sound


 
 just thought it was weird how they went out of their way to mention how powerful the magnet is or that many people could compare it and say "yes this has that much power, this is good" or it could be just that I have no knowledge about these things


----------



## music4mhell

jrazmar said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Early impressions on EO320.. Ok type, thin sounding earbud.
> ...


 
 Surely i will do that, the Rose Masya, K500 and **** PT15 are in transit.
 Once i have all, i will create my list.. hope so there won't any other flagship released in between


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> Surely i will do that, the Rose Masya, K500 and **** PT15 are in transit.
> Once i have all, i will create my list.. hope so there won't any other flagship released in between


 


 Well, you still have to get Cypherus CampFred and QFred.


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Surely i will do that, the Rose Masya, K500 and **** PT15 are in transit.
> ...


 
 Yes i forgot that too , i have to get these too !
 I feel i won't be able to buy Focal Elear this year


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> Yes i forgot that too , i have to get these too !
> I feel i won't be able to buy Focal Elear this year


 


 Earbuds this year, headphones next year. After that: listen to music!


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Yes i forgot that too , i have to get these too !
> ...


 
 Thanks for your sarcasm 
  
 Edit : Lucky that i am not married yet


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> Thanks for your sarcasm
> 
> Edit : Lucky that i am not married yet


 



 Didn't mean anything bad. Sarcasm and irony is a favorite humor for me.

 After you are married and have kids you will see your time and money go down a black hole. At least you can give earbuds that you do not use to your wife...


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for your sarcasm
> ...


 
  
 I was just kidding, i didn't take it otherwise.
 Thanks for your tips, once i get married, i will surely get tips and suggestions from you (How to spend money on earbuds even after marriage ) !


----------



## Danneq

Well, if you have a big collection you will probably have to sell stuff to be able to buy new earbuds. Like I'm doing now (hint to those who might be interested: Rose Mojito in very good condition for sale here on Head fi!!!).


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> Well, if you have a big collection you will probably have to sell stuff to be able to buy new earbuds. Like I'm doing now (hint to those who might be interested: Rose Mojito in very good condition for sale here on Head fi!!!).


 
 I thought of that .. but i think i will keep everything as a collection.
 Who knows after 10 years, they will be valued far more than now


----------



## Willber

music4mhell said:


> danneq said:
> 
> 
> > music4mhell said:
> ...


 
 Stay single - keep your hobby, your freedom and your sanity!


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> I thought of that .. but i think i will keep everything as a collection.
> Who knows after 10 years, they will be valued far more than now


 

 That might be the case. I'm keeping the Sony and Aiwa earbuds even if I do not use them much. Other than that I decided to only keep what I use.

 I forgot one more top of the line earbud! Celsus Gramo One. I just thought it was okay and not worth $250, but it is definitely a TOTL earbud. The sound signature just wasn't what I wanted.
  


willber said:


> Stay single - keep your hobby, your freedom and your sanity!


 

 True! Still, I have to say - I never cared about kids before I became a dad. But now it's just the most amazing thing to know this wonderful, and sometimes awfully annoying, little person.


----------



## Danneq

littlesoundhq said:


> Congratulations on owning a QFred Earbuds, Sir.


 


 Thanks! I saw that you used to sell CampFred. I will buy a pair directly from Herry Wijaya...


----------



## ld100

Does Sennheiser still make any earbuds worth seeking out? It is quite surprising that after making arguably one of the best one out there there is nothing from that brand that is mentioned here...


----------



## music4mhell

ld100 said:


> Does Sennheiser still make any earbuds worth seeking out? It is quite surprising that after making arguably one of the best one out there there is nothing from that brand that is mentioned here...


 
 May be they come soon, as there is increasing demand in earbud market recently !


----------



## Nachash

I'm jealous, my **** was shipped this week. So it would arrive in 2017, I'm still waiting for the Ty32 ordered at the beginning of September ...


----------



## Danneq

littlesoundhq said:


> I'm still selling them.  CampFred, QFred, and the rest of Cypherus Audio X Products, including Amplifiers and modified headphones.
> 
> These products are designed for personal audio enthusiasts, for those who are not satisfied with what we can find out of the box in the market. These products certainly put a big smile when we listen to them


 


 Thanks for the info. Do you ship outside of Indonesia? I searched for Cypherus earbuds in your store but could not find anything so then I contacted Cypherus directly instead...


----------



## Holypal

My **** PT15 is also on the way. A little bit excited.
  
 I'm not a fan of earbuds, only owns VE Monk+, and had Sennheiser MX365 years ago. PT15 may change my point of view.


----------



## Willber

nachash said:


> I'm jealous, my **** was shipped this week. So it would arrive in 2017, I'm still waiting for the Ty32 ordered at the beginning of September ...


 

 That's bad, where do you get them from? My orders from AE to the UK usually take about three weeks.


----------



## Nachash

willber said:


> That's bad, where do you get them from? My orders from AE to the UK usually take about three weeks.


 

 AE to Italy, at least 45days. Usually 60 or more.
 From Gearbest it takes usually two weeks though


----------



## music4mhell

nachash said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > That's bad, where do you get them from? My orders from AE to the UK usually take about three weeks.
> ...


 
 Choose Hongkong post, it reaches in 2 weeks max after shipping !


----------



## Nachash

music4mhell said:


> Choose Hongkong post, it reaches in 2 weeks max after shipping !


 

 It's not always available... in fact it never appeared to me


----------



## Ira Delphic

ld100 said:


> Does Sennheiser still make any earbuds worth seeking out? It is quite surprising that after making arguably one of the best one out there there is nothing from that brand that is mentioned here...


 
  
 I like the MX 680, no longer manufactured but still available. Most Head-Fi'ers probably won't like them. These are co-branded with Adidas and marketed as sports earbuds. I tried them outdoors, and indoors at a gym and they don't fall out thanks to the earhooks, but they are useless at blocking out sound unless the volume is cranked up to overpower ambient sound. Whoever thought of offering sports earbuds should be fired. There's also a similar in ear model from that generation which makes more sense for the intended purpose.The new models are in ear only and have smart phone controls. The 680's are old school. There is a little analog wheel to adjust volume, which works well, no static.  Most folks won't consider based on looks. Bright yellow, thin kevlar cords. Yuck. But the most important thing to consider is the sound.
  
 This is just my opinion and I'm not an audiophile. Soundstage - not huge but adequate. Bass - tight and controlled but underwhelming, not for bassheads.
 Mids - I guess could be could be considered thin. High end - this is where they shine. Decent instrument separation, and not sibilant. Other things to consider - waterproof I believe. I wear them when out with friends (evein in the rain) and can participate in conversation and have some nice background music. There are inexpensive refurbs on Ebay US. I bought a total of 3 pairs, and the last one that arrived yesterday was defective, one channel dead. When I got my first pair I though I made a horrible purchase. But after mental burn in I actually like the sound, especially for electronic music and classical. It's a Sennheiser and for a $40+ list price back in the day I don't think it's fair to say they are not horrible.


----------



## music4mhell

nachash said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Choose Hongkong post, it reaches in 2 weeks max after shipping !
> ...


 
 You have to request seller specifically. I always do  They don't mention because AE/Chinapost is the cheapest solutions with tracking.


----------



## JASru

music4mhell said:


> Yes i forgot that too , i have to get these too !
> I feel i won't be able to buy Focal Elear this year


 Offtop. Are you sure you want the Elear? I listened to it a few days ago and it hasn't anything special. Good, but not superb. Just my opinion.


----------



## music4mhell

jasru said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Yes i forgot that too , i have to get these too !
> ...




Hmm, which earbud u feel closest to elear ?
i have not audiotioned yet ...


----------



## kerulberul

hey just wondering if a dragonfly black would be enough to drive the high imp earbuds like k500 and ty650?


----------



## Samuel Lawiet

which earbuds have big bass and comfortable housing (like earpods or yuin), i didn't like some kind of housing like Sennheiser MX500 

 thx before


----------



## JASru

I doubt that there is an earbud that I heard and that beats a hi-end can. They are too different. What I would like to say that Elear's price to quality is a little bit lacking imho. I heard both Elear and Utopia on Loudhead fest in Moscow.It is better for you to listem to it, but consider listening to Grados and Stax 207 or 307. Stax combined with amp cost around Elear.

Returning to the topic. I received a 1-kilo package of earphones today. Qian 39 are first in the row to be tested.


----------



## Willber

samuel lawiet said:


> which earbuds have big bass and comfortable housing (like earpods or yuin), i didn't like some kind of housing like Sennheiser MX500
> 
> thx before


 

 The Qian39 is smaller than the MX500 shell and I find it more comfortable. It has decent bass and is only about $6 so worth a try.


----------



## ld100

My **** tracking has not moved and I am getting annoyed. Why would they mark it as shipped without really shipping them...


----------



## vapman

ld100 said:


> My **** tracking has not moved and I am getting annoyed. Why would they mark it as shipped without really shipping them...


 

 same here, i actually messaged HCK some confused looking smiley faces on the Ali messenger about it a few minutes ago...


----------



## JASru

Qian39 is going to be #2 in my earbud "bang for the buck list". 
It really outperforms Monk+ (which is a good choice for beginner still, due to the fact that almost anyone has it, which makes it a more or less reliable benchmark), it is more versatile than RX-1(this one is perfect for vocal, synth and guitar based music) and less analytical than TP-16( which has better detalisation and balance, but less... fun, perhaps). 
The top spot is still taken by Philips. Regardless of SQ fluctuations - this price to sound ratio is too good to be true.


----------



## Willber

jasru said:


> Qian39 is going to be #2 in my earbud "bang for the buck list".
> It really outperforms Monk+ (which is a good choice for beginner still, due to the fact that almost anyone has it, which makes it a more or less reliable benchmark), it is more versatile than RX-1(this one is perfect for vocal, synth and guitar based music) and less analytical than TP-16( which has better detalisation and balance, but less... fun, perhaps).
> *The top spot is still taken by Philips. Regardless of SQ fluctuations - this price to sound ratio is too good to be true.*


 
  
 Yes, I meant to mention the Philips SHE3800 in my post - it too has good bass and is comfortable, although a little larger than the Qian39.


----------



## Blueshound24

I haven't gotten any TOTL earbuds... yet. But I'm actively looking.
 But for a budget earbud, I'm liking the Edifier P185, it has a balanced, neutral, open sound signature. It doesn't seem to favor any frequency, with equal amounts of bass, mids and treble. It's very clear with crisp highs and fairly tight bass and upfront mids, IMO. 
  
 Using donut foams seems to bring out the best in these. It kinda reminds me of the GR07 BE balanced signature. However, I DO NOT like the fit, it's a little hard to get just right. 
  
 I did notice on ClieOS updated list it's #36 on 'The Great' category, but it is missing the "5" in 185.
  
  

32. Yuin OK1
33. Pioneer SE-CE521
34. Panasonic HJ329 
35. Audio Technica CM707
*36. Edifier H18                 (H185)*
37. 潜韵电声 潜69
38. VE Monk Plus
 
39. TY (Hi-Z) 32ohm
  
 Does anyone have input for a step up in quality for a similar neutral/balanced/open signature? Dollar-wise, I would be willing to go up to Shozy BK Stardust investment.


----------



## JASru

blueshound24 said:


> I haven't gotten any TOTL earbuds... yet. But I'm actively looking.
> But for a budget earbud, I'm liking the Edifier P185, it has a balanced, neutral, open sound signature. It doesn't seem to favor any frequency, with equal amounts of bass, mids and treble. It's very clear with crisp highs and fairly tight bass and upfront mids, IMO. I agree with ClieOS opinion, _"Crisp and clean treble, really good detail but mid is slightly dry and bass is a bit soft."_
> Using donut foams seems to bring out the best in these. It kinda reminds me of the GR07 BE balanced signature. However, I DO NOT like the fit, it's a little hard to get just right.
> 
> ...


 I am not sure about open, but neutral and balanced is what TP-16 is about.


----------



## springbay

kerulberul said:


> hey just wondering if a dragonfly black would be enough to drive the high imp earbuds like k500 and ty650?


 

 You can actually run the K500 straight from an Iphone 6s without any problem.
  
 But they scale beautifully with a good source. I'm running mine with a VE RA 2.0. And at times I can't believe they are ear buds. The sound is simply stunning.


----------



## ryanjsoo

jasru said:


> I am not sure about open, but neutral and balanced is what TP-16 is about.


 
 What foams are you using? My TP-16 sounds pretty balanced but still more on the darker side even with monk+ foams and donuts.


----------



## rockingthearies

Whoever who said that they the wire of the k 500 ohms kept hitting the housing causing a clicking noise, i am experiencing that too but only happens when i shake my head more than normal. Usually head the clicks when i am walking too so I guess i will only be using the K500ohms when i am studying or resting


----------



## ClieOS

blueshound24 said:


> ... I did notice on ClieOS updated list it's #36 on 'The Great' category, but it is missing the "5" in 185.
> ...


 
  
 Fixed.


----------



## Samuel Lawiet

willber said:


> The Qian39 is smaller than the MX500 shell and I find it more comfortable. It has decent bass and is only about $6 so worth a try.


 
 Ok, thx


----------



## Willber

samuel lawiet said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > The Qian39 is smaller than the MX500 shell and I find it more comfortable. It has decent bass and is only about $6 so worth a try.
> ...


 
 See this post as well:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/13395#post_12982068


----------



## mints

purplesun said:


> TY Hi-Z 32 - Bright & strident sound. The repeated "flanging symphony effect"(?) is a bit too much, but that may be what you are looking for.
> Monk Plus - Quite balanced sound. Tighter percussions. The "flanging symphony effect" was slightly less dominant.


 
  
 yup already have those 2
 ty 32 - too bassy in a bad way? muddy? i don't like
 monk/+ - i like. i'd love something like monk/+ w/ more bass and oomph
  


jasru said:


> Try them with syntwave like Perturbator and Dance with the Dead or Kavinsky. Sounds superb.


 
  
 i'm giving you a night call
 to tell you how i feel
 i want to drive you thru the night
 down the hills


----------



## purplesun

mints said:


> monk/+ - i like. i'd love something like monk/+ w/ more bass and oomph


 
  
 You might want to try ozkan's blu-tac mod on Monk Plus. Block out the 2 rear left & right oval ports using blu-tac. IIRC, stronger bass & treble with some extensions, and slightly recessed mids.


----------



## music4mhell

purplesun said:


> mints said:
> 
> 
> > monk/+ - i like. i'd love something like monk/+ w/ more bass and oomph
> ...


 
 TY 32 ?


----------



## mints

purplesun said:


> You might want to try ozkan's blu-tac mod on Monk Plus. Block out the 2 rear left & right oval ports using blu-tac. IIRC, stronger bass & treble with some extensions, and slightly recessed mids.


 
  
 no blu-tac here :/


----------



## purplesun

mints said:


> no blu-tac here :/



Have TY Hi-Z 32 and Monk each seen more than a few days of accumulated use? If not, their sound could be muffled for being new, especially TY32.


----------



## purplesun

music4mhell said:


> TY 32 ?



Have not tried the mod on TY32. IMO, more than enough bass already on that.


----------



## music4mhell

purplesun said:


> mints said:
> 
> 
> > no blu-tac here :/
> ...


 
 I feel TY32 has more controlled sound than Monk+


----------



## purplesun

music4mhell said:


> I feel TY32 has more controlled sound than Monk+


 
  
 I guess ( I could be wrong), you may not have read his first post asking for help on playing a particular song:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/13320#post_12978480
  
 Which led to him preferring MP's sound over TY32's sound, but would prefer more bass oomph with the MP.
  
 Also, as the conversation is turning towards bass, someone else like @vapman or a EDM basshead should have better earbud recommendations than myself.


----------



## music4mhell

purplesun said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I feel TY32 has more controlled sound than Monk+
> ...


 
 I am not an EDM guy, i am a MID lover  that's why i always love to hear my zen 2.


----------



## purplesun

music4mhell said:


> I am not an EDM guy, i am a MID lover  that's why i always love to hear my zen 2.


 
  
 Midrange, with a pinch of bass & a tablespoon of treble, that's about all I need.
 People like us should not be recommending bass earbuds.


----------



## music4mhell

purplesun said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I am not an EDM guy, i am a MID lover  that's why i always love to hear my zen 2.
> ...


 
 That's true, you will enjoy BASS for sometime, but you won't enjoy bassy earbuds for longer listening sessions IMHO.


----------



## purplesun

music4mhell said:


> That's true, you will enjoy BASS for sometime, but you won't enjoy bassy earbuds for longer listening sessions IMHO.


 
  
 I would like to agree with you, except I know people who walks around with closed headphones with sound volume (especially bass) easily 10db higher than I can tolerate for even 30 seconds. I am always amazed that the simple act of hearing can be so different for all of us.


----------



## mints

purplesun said:


> Have TY Hi-Z 32 and Monk each seen more than a few days of accumulated use? If not, their sound could be muffled for being new, especially TY32.


 
  
 yup ty 32 burned in for 3-4 days using jlab audio
 monk/+ burned in since forever
 i always burn in new stuff
  


purplesun said:


> Midrange, with a pinch of bass & a tablespoon of treble, that's about all I need.
> People like us should not be recommending bass earbuds.


 
  
 lol damn
 idk wat to believe anymore
  


music4mhell said:


> That's true, you will enjoy BASS for sometime, but you won't enjoy bassy earbuds for longer listening sessions IMHO.


 
  
 i object!!! jk but i object!!


----------



## vapman

@mints, which buds have you heard. can recommend you a bassier bud if i know what you had.


----------



## mints

vapman said:


> @mints, which buds have you heard. can recommend you a bassier bud if i know what you had.


 
  
 stock buds from ancient daps and cheap buds


----------



## vapman

mints said:


> stock buds from ancient daps and cheap buds




Which cheap ones


----------



## JASru

ryanjsoo said:


> What foams are you using? My TP-16 sounds pretty balanced but still more on the darker side even with monk+ foams and donuts.


Foamless.


----------



## mints

vapman said:


> Which cheap ones


 
  
 monk/+
 ty 32
 seahf 32
 ag rx1
 pa pr1
 edifier h180
 mm tp16
 also from sony, panasonic and apple


----------



## vapman

mints said:


> monk/+
> ty 32
> seahf 32
> ag rx1
> ...


 

 so you don't like the monk+ huh? would rate it as some of the best bass out of your list.
 and do you ever use EQ? you should boost up the bass if you don't.
 seahf 32, rx1 have no bass. h120, ty 32 barely have any imo.
 get a qian39, probably most bass on the new market, under $10.
 i've never heard she3800.


----------



## mints

vapman said:


> so you don't like the monk+ huh? would rate it as some of the best bass out of your list.
> and do you ever use EQ? you should boost up the bass if you don't.
> seahf 32, rx1 have no bass. h120, ty 32 barely have any imo.
> get a qian39, probably most bass on the new market, under $10.
> i've never heard she3800.


 
  
 i like monk+ but i'm using og monk these days
 i like og monk's bass-- just not enough!!!!!
 my other buds are collecting dust
 bc even if i can't describe their sound (newb)
 i don't like most of them
 ok i'll buy a qian39
  
 dude, idk how to eq for the life of me
 idk wat i'm doing when i'm adjusting stuff
 just ends up disabling it lol


----------



## Saoshyant

@vapman is a diehard basshead and is quite proficient with EQ, so can certainly give you some advice.  From the ones on your list that I've heard, I which would be everything but the Pai Audio, SeaHF and the assorted Sony, Panasonic & Apple, the one with the most satisfying bass for me would be the Edifier.  It's vocals hold up nicely against bass boost, where others like the Awei ES10 can have decent bass but sounds muddy.
  
 I'll have to give the Qian39 a try as well.


----------



## Danneq

I usually only EQ sub bass a bit in my earbuds to compensate for the fact that earbuds do not isolate well and lower frequencies are the first to be lost in outside noice.
 I usually boost perhaps up to +4dB on frequencies up to 80Hz (it depends on the DAP and the earbuds - some earbuds have better bass response and need less boost). That's of course nowhere near the levels that Vapman reach.


----------



## purplesun

@mints
  
 I just listened again using AG RX1. It picks up some details in the Porter Robinson song better than Monk/TY32; like the symphony effect playing in the background when it's not doing its crazy repeats. RX1 obviously does not have enough bass. But @haiku and @Willber have been raving about the 1More EO320 earbuds as "AG RX1 with bass". The EO320 seem like a good fit; having better details and strong bass at the same time.


----------



## Nachash

deleted


----------



## Nachash

Anybody spotted some good 11.11 offers?
  
 edit.
 Moondrop VX Pro $62.10
 **** PT15 $10.27 (no cable probably)
  
 Quote:


willber said:


> Yes, I meant to mention the Philips SHE3800 in my post - it too has good bass and is comfortable, although a little larger than the Qian39.


 

 Exactly, the Beyer DT150 were my main headphone for random use on PC. Now the cheap SHE3800 took their place because of how comfortable they are, except for movie watching because the cable is (obviously) too short
  
  
 So, since the VX Pros is getting cheaper.. anyone else got it?


----------



## boblauer

Who's store did yo see the Moondrop on sale at? Been on my AE wish list for quite awhile.


----------



## Ira Delphic

nachash said:


> Anybody spotted some good 11.11 offers?
> 
> edit.
> Moondrop VX Pro $62.10
> ...


 
  
 Do you have to wait until the day of 11.11. to get the deals or now is OK?


----------



## Nachash

boblauer said:


> Who's store did yo see the Moondrop on sale at? Been on my AE wish list for quite awhile.


 

 It's 62.10 from HCK, cheaper (56.95) from the other seller


----------



## teston

TY Hi-Z HP650 or K's 500? OMG can't wait for 11.11


----------



## Nachash

teston said:


> TY Hi-Z HP650 or K's 500? OMG can't wait for 11.11


 

 Interested as well, I'm looking for my endgame for earbuds (even if I'm still waiting for four of them, the cheap basic ones + the PT15)


----------



## teston

nachash said:


> Interested as well, I'm looking for my endgame for earbuds (even if I'm still waiting for four of them, the cheap basic ones + the PT15)



Me too waiting for PT15 and K's 64. I planned to find and buy the old mx985 or zen 1 but the 11.11 has me thinking again. K's 500 seems like a safer choice than HP650 but I still want to hear from someone who have both.


----------



## Nachash

teston said:


> Me too waiting for PT15 and K's 64. I planned to find and buy the old mx985 or zen 1 but the 11.11 has me thinking again. K's 500 seems like a safer choice than HP650 but I still want to hear from someone who have both.


 

 Yeah, the K64 too...
  
 TY Hi-Z 32Ω
 K's 64Ω
 Qian 39
 **** PT15


----------



## vapman

mints said:


> i like monk+ but i'm using og monk these days
> 
> i like og monk's bass-- just not enough!!!!!
> 
> ...




Good beginners eq: leave everything flat, and boost 200hz and lower by about 4db or more. You probably can't break 7db or 8db without starting to get clipping.







You should be happy with the qian39, has better bass than the original monk even. Seems everyone who picked one up so far thinks its pretty good.


----------



## CingKrab

The HP650 pricing for 11.11 is out for some vendors on AE now.  Glad to see the addition of AE premium shipping and ePacket for some of them.  Packets incoming to Canada have some atrocious tracking.
  
 Fingers crossed we see more Shozy BK/Stardust listings before 11.11...


----------



## boblauer

nachash said:


> It's 62.10 from HCK, cheaper (56.95) from the other seller


 
 Yep right after I asked I noticed the 11.11 prices on my wish list. Now is decision time because Shozy Cygnus is also discounted to 71.32 and that's a proven performer in the  earbud world.


----------



## Blueshound24

boblauer said:


> nachash said:
> 
> 
> > It's 62.10 from HCK, cheaper (56.95) from the other seller
> ...


 
  Link?


----------



## rockingthearies

Have been listening with the K 500Ohms for a day and they are pretty unforgiving on poor source. Their detail retrieval is so good and the separation is pretty sweet. Amping it gives vocals abit more body but the bass does get a good boost from amping. Tried amping the Monk+ too, the vocals on the Monk+ was just mind blowing. I think the Monk+ really needs to be amped well. 

Tested on LG V20 -> Epiphany Accoutics O2 amp -> Earbuds

songs tested
Adele - Rolling in the deep (FLAC)
Eric Clapton - Wonderful Tonight (FLAC)
Yui - Again (MP3)
One Ok Rock - The Beginning (MP3)


----------



## Sempenyi

nachash said:


> Exactly, the Beyer DT150 were my main headphone for random use on PC. Now the cheap SHE3800 took their place because of how comfortable they are, except for movie watching because the cable is (obviously) too short
> 
> 
> So, since the VX Pros is getting cheaper.. anyone else got it?


 
  
  


boblauer said:


> Who's store did yo see the Moondrop on sale at? Been on my AE wish list for quite awhile.


 


 Just to remind that VX Pro MSRP is 299 CNY, it's about 45 USD. try taobao or moondrop.cn.



  
 and i found this on TY taobao page (tyhiz.world.taobao.com)


Spoiler: TY-Hi Z 1700 Ohm ?? (Sorry For The Google Translate)



Read before buying!
  
      High-impedance headphones on those things ~
     I mean high-impedance headphones are not Beyerdynamic, HD800 as headphones, but to mx500-based public model headphones. 1 to 99 Ohm low-impedance headphones, 99-199 for the resistance in the headset, 200 or more for high impedance headphones. The beginning of the birth of the high-impedance headphones by Zergo in the end of 2014 the successful proofing production of 300 Ohm. High-impedance flat headset appeared at home and abroad caused no small disturbance, but also high-impedance unit to the MX500's public mode to the extreme. Insulator production resistance unit is not now some people will resistance welding on the circuit board that (or nickel alloy coil), but by changing the thickness of the coil length to change the voice coil resistance. This voice ring out of the sound is not only the details, high quality, can be physical noise reduction, and most of the old burned their value is his control.
     We should know that China and the world production of the highest technology than the headset in Shenzhen, Shenzhen and insects in Shenzhen, the headset industry resources have a good integration and grasp. From the plug to the wire to the ear shell are independent production, master the best quality resources. Not some in the "Alibaba" to buy spare parts to re-assembly and then those who can retail. By the way, insect brother seems to Alibaba supply Oh.
  
   In the end of 2015 Zergu launched 400 Ohm, in fact, was out of the 500 Ohm model, insect brother think 500 Ohm no need no main push shelves, the model has been here, the recent 650 Ohm has started selling the current large resistance .
     Zerg individuals prefer sideways lower frequency, so the tuning of the headset is also partial sideways. However, "high-impedance headphones are not black," the emergence of insects have to do some balanced or partial on the headset headphones to meet consumer demand.
     Some people will ask, why Zergo will like low-frequency? 05 years MX500 do not know if you have the impression, may now also put false headphones as a real, ha ha. MX500 was the emergence of a sensation in the headset market, because there is even a low-frequency flat-panel plug. So for a tuner, it can be transferred under the low-frequency, deep low-frequency that is a very powerful thing. Looking at the current headset market, a good few low-frequency headphones, flat head plug is rare. Columbia had to admire the tuner, is indeed a practitioner for more than a decade of the old master.
 In 2016, the insect brother for the "high impedance headset is not black" made a new version of the 400 Ohm. Tri-band more balanced, greater sound field, high-frequency better. Everyone's feedback is very good, of course, like the emphasis on the next set, a good sense of atmosphere, or choose the older version of the 400 Euro better.
 High-impedance headphone voice coil We are using automatic voice coil machine to do out of the current maximum production to 1700 Ohm. But we have heard of the 500 Ohm found that the impedance is not a big upgrade, 650 in order to have some improvement in Ohm. Especially portable equipment, more difficult to drive. The new version of the 400 Ohm improved sensitivity makes a lot of portable devices can be driven, here have to mention this new 400 Ohm wire. Not only will not change the toughness of good fight toughness, and the thickness of the silver-plated layer thicker than the market a lot, this line is also an exclusive production insect insect, not external retail.
     High impedance headset is really a good thing, but to 400 euros that we have a block to the bottleneck of portable devices, we will be out of 800 in Ohm (has been proofing success) or even 1700 Ohm, and will do better for this headset wire.
     High-impedance headphones on the yield problem, in fact, 150 Ohm okay, yield about 70 percent. To 320 Ohm is about 40 percent, 400 Ohm and even 30 percent are not to. Later developed 550 Ohm 650 Ohm even more interesting, yield rate of less than 10 percent. Because the voice coil is too long in the middle of a lot of short-circuit or voice coil dislocation, it will affect the sound quality. Insects on the grasp of this very strict, not only to use the machine, but also to measure with the ears. The rest of the bad unit will be disposed of, and the original PK1 unit, indeed the original, but are bad. Of course, there are also a lot of ignorance of the conscience, the coil out to change a diaphragm, magnets, said to be their own research and development production, which we do not evaluate.
    "High impedance headset is not black" shop for nearly 6 months, from a heart to three drill all the way to support and accompany. The name of the shop has shown my attitude, for me the headset is just a hobby, not the way I seek to survive. He may be the most exciting part of my college life, I cherish the understanding of these friends because of headphones Jieyuan. Of course, for everyone to talk about a welfare is not the mouth, the price and service is the most real. Please witness my growth, we will strive to improve the product, more high-priced products at the end of the headset, so that the real civilian HIFI. Enjoy music, enjoy life, I wish you everything goes, early fever.


 
 can anyone help me on better translation ?

 Do you have any information on chinese headphone forum about this @ClieOS ?


----------



## vapman

I guess from reading that, partially explains why they get more expensive as the resistance gets higher, if they have strict guidelines for what is and what isn't acceptable for sale. Because it seems like bug guy has a strict process for deciding what drivers are and aren't good enough. If about 9/10 of the 650 ohm drivers are failing QC but the lower the resistance goes the failure rate in production is lower.

I wanna know more about the 800-1.7k's...


----------



## ClieOS

sempenyi said:


> ....
> Do you have any information on chinese headphone forum about this @ClieOS ?


 
  
 I have seen that for quite awhile now. Remember those bedtime story that you can't recall much detail the next morning? It is kind of like that, fascinating tall tale.


----------



## Sempenyi

clieos said:


> I have seen that for quite awhile now. Remember those bedtime story that you can't recall much detail the next morning? It is kind of like that, fascinating tall tale.


 
 sad


----------



## oyster

vapman said:


> HPM-62 rules. Not going to kill any champions or contenders  but they pop open really easily, and are a unique shape/driver/sound - ridiculously natural vocals - absolutely and highly worth it if you can handle picking up a soldering iron to put a new cable on. Mine has a 3 button/mic remote cable. Better than Monk? No way. Different, though. I'll put it halfway between a bassy Dasetn and a RX-1.



I remember these from 10 years ago. Soft dense bass, nice timbre, overall easy organic kinda sound.


----------



## CingKrab

Wow, huge sale on the K's 500 for 11.11...


----------



## purplesun

I must, must, must NOT read this thread until after Tuesday!!
  
 EDIT: Until Friday!! Something else happening on Tuesday


----------



## mochill

http://penonaudio.com/HE-150ohm-HiFi-Earbud
New cheap buds


----------



## golov17

http://s.aliexpress.com/U36BFZBV


----------



## Nachash

golov17 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/U36BFZBV


 

 Too many, and I need to choose only one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 hoping that I don't get charged by customs
  
 Anyway, after two months the TY32 arrived

  
 Out of the box they're awful, thin-speaker sound. But I've read that they will improve, let's hope so.


----------



## Expansion

In the 20-50$, what would be a great upgrade from SHE3800?
 No, I'm not over SHE3800, I'm still surprised how nice they sound, with each new song, I just want to see what would be the next level.


----------



## golov17

expansion said:


> In the 20-50$, what would be a great upgrade from SHE3800?
> No, I'm not over SHE3800, I'm still surprised how nice they sound, with each new song, I just want to see what would be the next level.


try Fareal 64 Ohm, very not bad buds


----------



## Nachash

expansion said:


> In the 20-50$, what would be a great upgrade from SHE3800?
> No, I'm not over SHE3800, I'm still surprised how nice they sound, with each new song, I just want to see what would be the next level.


 

 Interested on this as well, can go up to $100.
  
 Can't go with Edimun, they're not available on ali and on their website they ask too much for shipping


----------



## vapman

I never use my Edimun V3 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 just don't like it enough. The Red De'mun I love though.


----------



## Expansion

Golov, I want to go for the best in that budget, I can't afford to spend money just to try and hope that I'll like them.
 SHE3800 sounds amazing for 3$, very hard to beat. It sounds way nicer(sweet, no mid-high harshness) than Mrice E100(~20$ headphone), Awei ES10, TY HP32.
 I also find their shell better than the generic MX500 shell.
  
 Hell, I've even made a stretched quick comparison with AKG K550 through a Meridian Explorer DAC.
 AKG K550 sounds even more like grandma's '50s radio without bass and without dynamics, after you listen to the cheapest earphones you can find, namely SHE3800.
 SHE3800 clearly sounds more natural than AKG K550. Yes, I'd prefer to listen to a pair of SHE3800 than to a pair of AKG K550, any time of the day.
 If you start to EQ the K550, things will change, but stock for stock sound, the signature of SHE3800 is millions of light-years more natural/pleasing than the one of K550.


----------



## golov17

Really nice for my ears


----------



## purplesun

expansion said:


> SHE3800 sounds amazing for 3$, very hard to beat. It sounds way nicer(sweet, no mid-high harshness) than Mrice E100(~20$ headphone), Awei ES10, TY HP32.
> I also find their shell better than the generic MX500 shell.


 
  
 What's your source? And musical taste?
  
 I do like SHE3800 quite a lot. Lots of energy without getting too unruly (eg: TY32). I've been using Monk Candy (I call it Monk+ with teeth) quite a bit lately, The Candy has a bit less fizz than SHE3800, but keeps a good control over the music in almost any situation (Note: can't comments on strong EDM bass as that's not my cup of tea). Maybe you can try staking out the next Monk Candy sale and get yourself that as, IMHO, an upgrade to SHE3800. Doesn't cost much more than the SHE3800 too.


----------



## Expansion

This is my source:
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/HIFI-ES9018-K2M-SA9023-AD823-2-USB-DAC-Decoder-With-Volume-adjust-3-5mm-output-USB/1497284_32711825626.html
  
 I listen to a lot of genres, from rock to classical. 
  
 I'll try Monk Candy, out of curiousity. I can't find them on aliexpress, though.


----------



## purplesun

expansion said:


> This is my source:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/HIFI-ES9018-K2M-SA9023-AD823-2-USB-DAC-Decoder-With-Volume-adjust-3-5mm-output-USB/1497284_32711825626.html
> 
> I listen to a lot of genres, from rock to classical.
> ...


 

 It's a special limited sale that VE organises from time to time. Check their facebook & get ready to enter your order fast when it opens. I was expecting it to sound completely unchanged from MP, which I don't quite like, but with a prettier cable. But, IMHO, it has better tone definition than MP and plays well with most songs I listen to - which appears similar to your taste.


----------



## Nachash

Ok, I usually dislike foams on earbuds. But with the TY 32 (at least in this early stage of listening) the foam is a must for me. I'll try later with the thin monk one


----------



## purplesun

nachash said:


> Ok, I usually dislike foams on earbuds. But with the TY 32 (at least in this early stage of listening) the foam is a must for me. I'll try later with the thin monk one


 
  
 Don't bother trying to "fix" the TY32 sound in the first 48 hours of use. It will change quite a lot. Either burn them in with another player or just tolerate listening to their terrible sound for the first few days.


----------



## haiku

My B&O Earset 3i will arrive today. Price tag 190,- USD. Let´s see how they sound compared to my EO320......


----------



## Holypal

haiku said:


> My B&O Earset 3i will arrive today. Price tag 190,- USD. Let´s see how they sound compared to my EO320......


 
  
 It's a very nice earbud. One of the best on vocals.


----------



## haiku

holypal said:


> It's a very nice earbud. One of the best on vocals.


 

 Yes, but that´s about it. It´s sound signature is definitely not my cup of tea. Much too bright and the bass is too lean for my taste. The EO320 sounds much warmer, sweeter and punchier. All in all, the EO320 is the better earbud imo. 
 The B&O is going back.


----------



## Nachash

purplesun said:


> Don't bother trying to "fix" the TY32 sound in the first 48 hours of use. It will change quite a lot. Either burn them in with another player or just tolerate listening to their terrible sound for the first few days.


 

 Will do, but I must say... it does already sound better than this morning.
  
 It really sounded like one of those cheap speakers
  
  
  
 ok, so It seems that the VX Pro isn't for me anymore. I'm leaning more towards the Ting or the TY650, which one is better in detail retrieval and instrument separation? I listen to pretty much all the genres, except for hip-hop, but what I really like to do from time to time is to be able to mentally separate the instruments so I can hear only one while removing all the rest. Unfortunately the K701 didn't worked for me, but maybe I can find something like that in the earbuds since I'm still amazed by their sound in such a small case.
 I'll mainly use it at home with my magni 2/modi 2 uber


----------



## music4mhell

nachash said:


> purplesun said:
> 
> 
> > Don't bother trying to "fix" the TY32 sound in the first 48 hours of use. It will change quite a lot. Either burn them in with another player or just tolerate listening to their terrible sound for the first few days.
> ...


TY650


----------



## kartik7405

haiku said:


> Yes, but that´s about it. It´s sound signature is definitely not my cup of tea. Much too bright and the bass is too lean for my taste. The EO320 sounds much warmer, sweeter and punchier. All in all, the EO320 is the better earbud imo.
> The B&O is going back.


 
 Before purchase have a check on FR ;then you do not have to regret later.B&O A8 /Earset 3i are same models.
 Check FR it has almost no low frequency:-
  
 http://en.goldenears.net/20247


----------



## haiku

kartik7405 said:


> Before purchase have a check on FR ;then you do not have to regret later.B&O A8 /Earset 3i are same models.
> Check FR it has almost no low frequency:-
> 
> http://en.goldenears.net/20247


 

 FR alone doesn´t tell you how it sounds. Everyone´s  ears are different. It´s not that the B&O doesn´t have good bass. It´s just rather lean and tight, and the sound signature as a whole is a little north of neutral. I guess people like ClieOS could very well love it. I on the other hand prefer it a lot warmer and bassier.


----------



## vapman

The 650 and ting is no competition. Not even close..


----------



## Townyj

vapman said:


> The 650 and ting is no competition. Not even close..




??


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> The 650 and ting is no competition. Not even close..


 

 But you have only heard green Ting, right?

 I wonder how big the difference is between green Ting and regular silver/red Ting.

 And to me, the perfect K701 sounding earbud is the one I have been raving about the last week or so...


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> But you have only heard green Ting, right?
> 
> 
> I wonder how big the difference is between green Ting and regular silver/red Ting.
> ...




I missed something... Which sounds like a k701? 

Also yes I've only heard the green ting but if the silver ting could hold up against the 650 i think we would know. There's at least one person in this thread with the better ting and the 650...


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> I missed something... Which sounds like a k701?
> 
> Also yes I've only heard the green ting but if the silver ting could hold up against the 650 i think we would know. There's at least one person in this thread with the better ting and the 650...




It seems like Nachash is looking for something that is good at detail and instrument separation in a way that is similar to K701, and his own suggestion was Ting and HP650. Ting is great. Very musical but not the best detail or instrument separation. Myself I'm looking forward to hearing HP650...


----------



## purplesun

nachash said:


> ok, so It seems that the VX Pro isn't for me anymore. I'm leaning more towards the Ting or the TY650, which one is better in detail retrieval and instrument separation? I


 
  
 VX Pro is something I am considering.
 Can you talk a bit about what you liked and disliked about it, in relation to the type of music you listen to?
 From what I have read about it, I had thought it was a more refined version of Auglamour RX1 with a bigger presentation.
 I would definitely appreciate your input about the VX Pro. Thanks.
  
 PS: I think you should also keep the new **** PT15 earbuds on your radar. As "detail & separation" pretty much describes ****'s signature sound for their IEM products. Only one person has received PT15 so far, so the reviews should be trickling in over the next week or so.


----------



## ClieOS

haiku said:


> ... I guess people like ClieOS could very well love it....


 
  
 Is that so? I'll confirm with him about it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
..., well,  he just told me he doesn't 'love' it.


----------



## badmod

All sellers on AE are gouging on prices before the 11.11 sale. The prices on 11.11 are what they were last week except for very few earbuds. You get a better discount when you ask the seller.


----------



## badmod

golov17 said:


> Really nice for my ears


 
  
 Where on AE? Does it sound similar to monk+?


----------



## golov17

badmod said:


> Where on AE? Does it sound similar to monk+?


softly than MP 
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/32677773445/32677773445.html


----------



## mints

saoshyant said:


> @vapman is a diehard basshead and is quite proficient with EQ, so can certainly give you some advice.  From the ones on your list that I've heard, I which would be everything but the Pai Audio, SeaHF and the assorted Sony, Panasonic & Apple, the one with the most satisfying bass for me would be the Edifier.  It's vocals hold up nicely against bass boost, where others like the Awei ES10 can have decent bass but sounds muddy.
> 
> I'll have to give the Qian39 a try as well.


 
  
  


purplesun said:


> @mints
> 
> I just listened again using AG RX1. It picks up some details in the Porter Robinson song better than Monk/TY32; like the symphony effect playing in the background when it's not doing its crazy repeats. RX1 obviously does not have enough bass. But @haiku and @Willber have been raving about the 1More EO320 earbuds as "AG RX1 with bass". The EO320 seem like a good fit; having better details and strong bass at the same time.


 
  
  


vapman said:


> Good beginners eq: leave everything flat, and boost 200hz and lower by about 4db or more. You probably can't break 7db or 8db without starting to get clipping.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  

  
 i'll get a qian39 and 1more eo320
 also tried the eq thing
 sound quite recessed?? but good bass
 je ne sais pas de quoi je parle


----------



## vapman

mints vous preferez de parlais français?

Anyways

I put a koss volume control cable on my qian39 and did cotton mod, just for fun/longer cable/volume control is nice when watching movies...





Taking apart the first time is a pain cause they are snap shut but also glued...


----------



## haiku

clieos said:


> Is that so? I'll confirm with him about it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## rockingthearies

What foams should I use to reduce treble on the K500Ohms or boost the bass?


----------



## Nachash

danneq said:


> It seems like Nachash is looking for something that is good at detail and instrument separation in a way that is similar to K701, and his own suggestion was Ting and HP650. Ting is great. Very musical but not the best detail or instrument separation. Myself I'm looking forward to hearing HP650...


 
 I've thrown two of the hot names around, since they will be cheaper on 11.11.
 But I'm open to suggestions ofc


purplesun said:


> VX Pro is something I am considering.
> Can you talk a bit about what you liked and disliked about it, in relation to the type of music you listen to?
> From what I have read about it, I had thought it was a more refined version of Auglamour RX1 with a bigger presentation.
> I would definitely appreciate your input about the VX Pro. Thanks.
> ...


 
 I've never owned the VX pro, I said that it isn't for me anymore because as you said only one person bought it and I prefer not to buy blindly


badmod said:


> All sellers on AE are gouging on prices before the 11.11 sale. The prices on 11.11 are what they were last week except for very few earbuds. You get a better discount when you ask the seller.


 

 Yes and no, some prices are lower. Some are the same, to be sure though you can always use something like http://www.chnprice.com/ which is something like camelcamelcamel but for ali


----------



## haiku

Listening with the EO320 to Neil Young´s "Live Rust" in 24/192, you know what High Res Audio is really all about. Every Song´s giving me goose bumps. Total enjoyment, total satisfaction. Guys, what a great hooby we have....


----------



## luedriver

just found an article on the most widely distributed sony earbuds in Australia, the sony MDR-E9LP
  
 http://en.goldenears.net/19023
  
 only mids and a bit of treble
  

  
 the review also doesn't look too good either, 
  
  
 tried to look up sennheiser mx170, but the site didn't mention it, however, there were a lot of other sennheiser earbud review, including the mx985, mx365  and mx400


----------



## golov17

rockingthearies said:


> What foams should I use to reduce treble on the K500Ohms or boost the bass?


Monk Plus foams, Hiegi donut foams for treble, Hiegi full foams for more bass


----------



## haiku

rockingthearies said:


> What foams should I use to reduce treble on the K500Ohms or boost the bass?


 

 Didn´t your K´s come with a wooden box which contains almost a whole handful of donuts and full foams? Mine did.


----------



## Townyj

haiku said:


> Didn´t your K´s come with a wooden box which contains almost a whole handful of donuts and full foams? Mine did.


 

 How do you rate the K's 500..??


----------



## rockingthearies

haiku said:


> Didn´t your K´s come with a wooden box which contains almost a whole handful of donuts and full foams? Mine did.




Yeap it did was asking which of those should I use


----------



## luedriver

sad day, didn't want to admit it for a few days but I think my shozy cygus earbuds are faulty, the left earbud is definitely louder than the right, making even mono seem off center.
  
 I sent a message to penonaudio, I'll wait for a reply
  
 Hopefully, this isn't a common problem, I haven't read anybody else having a similar problem with cygnus


----------



## danimoca

@ClieOS
 (or anybody who know's the M2C's well)
  
 My Blox M2C's just broke (cable got stiff and snapped). I really liked the way they sounded. Which earbuds you think have a similar sound to them, up to 50$?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

luedriver said:


> sad day, didn't want to admit it for a few days but I think my shozy cygus earbuds are faulty, the left earbud is definitely louder than the right, making even mono seem off center.
> 
> I sent a message to penonaudio, I'll wait for a reply
> 
> Hopefully, this isn't a common problem, I haven't read anybody else having a similar problem with cygnus


 
 Welcome to the club mate. One month ago I have faced the same problem despite my Cygnus being less than 6 month old. Penon fixed it for me


----------



## luedriver

audionewbi3 said:


> Welcome to the club mate. One month ago I have faced the same problem despite my Cygnus being less than 6 month old. Penon fixed it for me


 
 I think I remember reading that,  I thought it was other earbuds, I ordered them on august, so I probably don't have them for 3 months yet, hopefully, they can fix mine as well
  
 till then at least I will have the hp-650 to use if it comes soon this week


----------



## ClieOS

danimoca said:


> @ClieOS
> (or anybody who know's the M2C's well)
> 
> My Blox M2C's just broke (cable got stiff and snapped). I really liked the way they sounded. Which earbuds you think have a similar sound to them, up to 50$?
> ...


 
  
 Unfortunately the one earbud that I can consider to be a direct upgrade (of very similar sound signature) over M2c is the K's 500ohm, which is neither cheap nor particularly easy to drive. There is however a good chance you can get the M2c re-cabled, if that's the only issue it has.


----------



## danimoca

clieos said:


> Unfortunately the one earbud that I can consider to be a direct upgrade (of very similar sound signature) over M2c is the K's 500ohm, which is neither cheap nor particularly easy to drive. There is however a good chance you can get the M2c re-cabled, if that's the only issue it has.


 
  
 That's sad 
  
 Unfortunately one of the drivers did have some rattle on basier tracks. So recabling may be a bit pointless now.
  
 These M2C's were so good... a shame really.
  
 But thanks anyway


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-New-K-s-Earphone-500-ohm-Balanced-High-Impedance-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud-500-ohms/519064_32751678102.html
  
 k's earphone 500ohm will be going on sale for £60 on the 11th. Worth it?


----------



## vapman

Sanfer finally shipped. Played the ol get-a-trAcking-that-doesn't-work-2-weeks-then-email-them game. Got a "friend, it shipped 5 days ago, please give 2 more for tracking update." 3 daya later i get "acceptance" so do they all think we are idiots?

Im exposing this because twice yesterday on ebay i bought epacket items that shipped and had working with updates showing "accepted".. *in under 16 hours*

Is there any way to force ali sellers to ship right away? If not i am done with Ali purchases for good. Sure ebay etc do it sometimes but if a seller can't promise me working trAcking within 24 hours shipping with WORKING trAcking i am not buying aliexpress buds anymore.

I cannot count how many times i ordered, waited several weeks, asked What was the hold up and every time get a "friend its sent dont worry" and see "acceptance" 3 days later.

What am i an idiot??? Any store who does this to me will get poor ratings in the future. Believe it or not ill survive perfectly fine without more Ali buds.

I have explained this to MANY sellers on ebay and ali. I have said more times than i can count, just wait until its shipped to post the tracking. Never happens that way.

Tl;dr: unless Ali sellers stop pulling this crap I'm making it clear these guys will not be seeing my Business again.


----------



## vapman

danimoca

Blox shells are easy as hell to take part. Grab a new iron and cable and get to it!


----------



## vapman

Accidental double post courtesy of my 4g smartphone.


----------



## ld100

vapman said:


> Sanfer finally shipped. Played the ol get-a-trAcking-that-doesn't-work-2-weeks-then-email-them game. Got a "friend, it shipped 5 days ago, please give 2 more for tracking update." 3 daya later i get "acceptance" so do they all think we are idiots?
> 
> Im exposing this because twice yesterday on ebay i bought epacket items that shipped and had working with updates showing "accepted".. *in under 16 hours*
> 
> ...




I am with you on this! So annoying. Same with my ****...


----------



## vapman

ld100 said:


> I am with you on this! So annoying. Same with my ****...




I for one have began sending hck mesages saying exactly what i said above. Getting a tracking numbers for it to not work for 2 weeks, then show accepted, is completely not acceptable to me.

It's not like it's just 2 weeks either. Its 2 weeks until i write back "so you shipped it yet?" and they smiley faces and please wait 5-10 days to bring it to the post office.

Ill be honest i dont know how hard it is getting to a HK post office. But if some sellers are shipping and giving you working ePacket *the same day as payment* i know these ali sellers are screwing around.

_Anyone who has received false tracking on ali. I *emplore* you to message your favorite ali seller and explain why you won't be giving them more business unless they stop screwing around on shipping._

That thing i bought two days ago on ebay that shipped epacket? It's already being loaded on a plane to the USA. My HCK orders? Probably scrambed together when i sent my usual "so did you send it yet?"

"Yes, friend, we sent it 2 days ago, please wait 5-10 more." *shows accepted 2 days later*


----------



## Karl2009

expansion said:


> SHE3800 sounds amazing for 3$,


 
 $3, where?


----------



## Holypal

vapman said:


> Sanfer finally shipped. Played the ol get-a-trAcking-that-doesn't-work-2-weeks-then-email-them game. Got a "friend, it shipped 5 days ago, please give 2 more for tracking update." 3 daya later i get "acceptance" so do they all think we are idiots?
> 
> Im exposing this because twice yesterday on ebay i bought epacket items that shipped and had working with updates showing "accepted".. *in under 16 hours*
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi, Have you tried to search the tracking numbers on http://www.17track.net/en/ ?  
  
 If it says "message received", which means the delivery company has the package, but not delivered yet. The shipping company wants to combine a lot of parcels together in one big container, to reduce the cost.


----------



## vapman

holypal said:


> Hi, Have you tried to search the tracking numbers on http://www.17track.net/en/ ?
> 
> If it says "message received", which means the delivery company has the package, but not delivered yet. The shipping company wants to combine a lot of parcels together in one big container, to reduce the cost.




Yes i use 17ttack on the web and my smartphone.

I will see "this tracking number has no history, check with the seller" for weeks.

Wait some weeks, message the seller "so where's my stuff?" they say not to worry and later that night it's accepted and scanned into the processing facility.

I think once in my whole life, on a non epacket delivery, did i see "message received" and that was not air mail.

*My point being* - and it may be a fruitless struggle that just means no more Aliexpress buds for Vapman - but I'm just not going to do business with anyone who has treated me like that in the past. I've told every one of these sellers multiple times to just not post tracking until it's sent, and if they do, just get the damn thing sent. NiceHCK knows my feelings on this VERY well as he's one of the notorious sellers I've had to "remind" I had an order needing shipping on many occasions. I just don't want to babysit my Aliexpress sellers like that anymore. I'll either pay more to buy from somewhere I don't have to be nagging them constantly to ship the stuff I paid for weeks ago. I told NiceHCK, if they pull this kind of crap on me one more time, I'm never ordering from them again. I had the exact same experience with my one order from AK Audio. So I guess Penon might be my new spot, unfortunately, with their premium prices.


----------



## Raketen

Never ordered from Ali, but I've had a few e-bay imports that showed up before the tracking even registered that it was shipped. Guess this is a different issue though... either that or I live near a space-time anomaly :blink:

Some people have bottomless scorn for the USPS for some reason, but I've become very appreciative of them since experiencing the vicisitudes of international shipping.


----------



## Holypal

raketen said:


> Never ordered from Ali, but I've had a few e-bay imports that showed up before the tracking even registered that it was shipped. Guess this is a different issue though... either that or I live near a space-time anomaly


 

 I had issues on ebay. I ordered something, and didn't receive it for 2 months. And the seller seems disappeared, all his goods are gone and no response to my message.


----------



## vapman

holypal said:


> I had issues on ebay. I ordered something, and didn't receive it for 2 months. And the seller seems disappeared, all his goods are gone and no response to my message.


 

 eBay buyer protection? did you use it?


----------



## Holypal

vapman said:


> eBay buyer protection? did you use it?


 
  
 Already too late.


----------



## vapman

holypal said:


> Already too late.


 

 Paypal (not eBay) protection is separate and good for up to 180 days. Give it a try. 180 days is like half the year. If the item you got is signifcnatly not as described, or never showed up, you can use the 180 days resolution center on Paypal's site. Good luck!


----------



## Holypal

vapman said:


> Paypal (not eBay) protection is separate and good for up to 180 days. Give it a try. 180 days is like half the year. If the item you got is signifcnatly not as described, or never showed up, you can use the 180 days resolution center on Paypal's site. Good luck!


 
  
 Thanks. I'll give it a try. 180 days protection is really good.


----------



## vapman

OK guys, so in the light of all the headache and angrer Aliexpress has caused me with their dishonest sellers, I'm thinking it's time to start using MisterTao for all my buying needs.
  
 Either that or when I do order from Aliexpress I only buy from sellers I've personally chewed out for taking forever to ship and make them ship within a couple days...
  
 (Not all Aliexpress stores are bad. Just seems to be the main headphone selling ones. When I bought my 5 pack of KZ cables from a normal electronics store they shipped next day. Rarely HCK has shipped quickly but both AK and the recently- renamed bad seller are all more or less a nightmare to deal with unless you don't mind waiting several weeks for your stuff to make it to the post office. And you'd think on an escrow system they'd be *more* motivated to get the stuff shipped?)


----------



## Holypal

vapman said:


> OK guys, so in the light of all the headache and angrer Aliexpress has caused me with their dishonest sellers, I'm thinking it's time to start using MisterTao for all my buying needs.
> 
> Either that or when I do order from Aliexpress I only buy from sellers I've personally chewed out for taking forever to ship and make them ship within a couple days...
> 
> (Not all Aliexpress stores are bad. Just seems to be the main headphone selling ones. When I bought my 5 pack of KZ cables from a normal electronics store they shipped next day. Rarely HCK has shipped quickly but both AK and the recently- renamed bad seller are all more or less a nightmare to deal with unless you don't mind waiting several weeks for your stuff to make it to the post office. And you'd think on an escrow system they'd be *more* motivated to get the stuff shipped?)


 
  
 I was also angered once, but got over it soon. Look at my post on reddit several month ago:
 https://www.reddit.com/r/Aliexpress/comments/4m0t9o/fake_tracking_number/


----------



## Nachash

lel, no wonder that the TY 650 is cheaper on a certain seller

 speaking of bad practices...


----------



## vapman

holypal said:


> I was also angered once, but got over it soon. Look at my post on reddit several month ago:
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Aliexpress/comments/4m0t9o/fake_tracking_number/


 
  
 While I totally hear you - sure i'd begrudgingly accept it if this was like my first or second order with a value of maybe $10 or $20 tops.
 But with the exception of Penon, who the first time I bought from them had it on its way to me within 24 hours, no seller will ever admit to me the tracking  # posted is fake.
 and these are guys I've ordered DOZENS of times from and some more expensive orders too.
 I simply made it clear I'm fed up with it and won't be giving them more business if it keeps up.
 I plan to give HCK another shot once he replies to my long angry list of messages. If it happens one more again, goodbye Aliexpress headphone sellers, you should all know why you're not getting my business anymore.... _because I told them exactly why!_
  
 What's more is these sellers not only know I've bought from them over and over again, and had to be like "so, you sent it yet?" after almost 2 weeks, and same thing happens every time. They know I write reviews and people here read them. So why they can't just bring my box to the PO without being asked, is beyond me, and frankly puts me off from buying more Ali buds ever.
  
 That's not to say I never will again because of course I'll buy from Ali again. It's just this time all these sellers know I'm not screwing around and won't hesitate to leave some nasty feedback if I get this treatment again. That isn't too much to ask, is it, to have my stuff shipped before I ask them politely to 2 weeks after getting a fake number? (which isn't so much "fake" as it is "not scanned into the postal system yet". No matter what story any Ali seller has for you, when the package says "accepted", that's when they're standing inside the post office and physically handing over your box..
  
 Phew..... end rant.
  
  


nachash said:


> lel, no wonder that the TY 650 is cheaper on a certain seller
> 
> speaking of bad practices...


 
 I thought the retail box was free for the first 50 purchasers. IMO i would mention none of the other 50 first buyers had to pay extra for their box. And if you're past #50, may you're getting someone else's box they chose not to pay extra for...


----------



## Nachash

vapman said:


> Phew..... end rant.
> 
> 
> I thought the retail box was free for the first 50 purchasers. IMO i would mention none of the other 50 first buyers had to pay extra for their box. And if you're past #50, may you're getting someone else's box they chose not to pay extra for...


 
 US $104.21 / piece  *Free Shipping*
_Orders (0)_ 
 SALE : US $78.16
  
 doubt it


----------



## Raketen

Is that common practice? I actually kind of like it, if it means I can save $5 and some material waste lol... Amazon has that "hassle free packaging" option where everything is in a plastic bag, but it doesn't reduce the price and it's unclear if they are just discarding the packaging to minimize shpment cost or if it's actually supplied to them without the packaging.


----------



## vapman

nachash said:


> US $104.21 / piece *Free Shipping*
> _Orders (0)_
> SALE : US $78.16
> 
> doubt it


 

 That order count won't count the Penon and other Ali sellers' sales. Last I checked there are at least 5 bought from Penon on Ali, and a few photographed in the wild in Asia - and then of course penon audio's website which isn't linked to Aliexpress... that said, it's still possible the first 50 aren't sold yet.
  
 Then again that seller you linked has a 96.6% feedback rating, zero TY 650's sold, and other Ali sellers with higher ratings have actual units sold,  I've personally never heard or bought from Beteran hifi on Ali


----------



## Nachash

vapman said:


> That order count won't count the Penon and other Ali sellers' sales. Last I checked there are at least 5 bought from Penon on Ali, and a few photographed in the wild in Asia - and then of course penon audio's website which isn't linked to Aliexpress... that said, it's still possible the first 50 aren't sold yet.
> 
> Then again that seller you linked has a 96.6% feedback rating, zero TY 650's sold, and other Ali sellers with higher ratings have actual units sold,  I've personally never heard or bought from Beteran hifi on Ali


 
 Oh, you meant 50 worldwide... I thought that it was 50 per seller.
  
 regarding the seller, as long as I receive the products it's all fine by me. If I don't receive it/the product is damaged, I will just open a dispute


----------



## HairyHeadMara

I asked HCK once after more than a month long shipment that is it possible to ship my next order via epacket as it way faster than ali Standard shipping & China post and he told me epacket can not ship to Australia. Since then I never order anything from him again as know it totally bullsh*t and I've received so many orders from VE and Penonaudio via epacket.


----------



## jant71

I just ordered a bit ago from HCK both items via epacket. Tracking has gone live on USPS so the number seems real. Hopefully I'm good


----------



## purplesun

@vapman
  
 I had the same run around with the banned seller on the PT15, even tried cancelling it (as I paid $29) but to no avail. I just gave up in the end and hope that PT15 is worth the aggravation.
  
 OTOH, in the same time period, I was having quite good delivery experiences with taobao sellers via my taobao agent. If it wasn't for the waiting for products from different sellers to combine into 1 parcel, I reckon each item should average less than 3 weeks in total delivery time. About 1 to 1.5 weeks to taobao agent's warehouse in Shanghai and another 1 to 1.5 weeks from Shanghai to my local collection point. For some reason, the taobao sellers do appear to work more efficiently locally than Ali sellers internationally, or perhaps agents get VIP treatments for being such big purchasers of everything on taobao. You should give it a try.


----------



## JASru

purplesun said:


> @vapman
> 
> I had the same run around with the banned seller on the PT15, even tried cancelling it (as I paid $29) but to no avail. I just gave up in the end and hope that PT15 is worth the aggravation.
> 
> OTOH, in the same time period, I was having quite good delivery experiences with taobao sellers via my taobao agent. If it wasn't for the waiting for products from different sellers to combine into 1 parcel, I reckon each item should average less than 3 weeks in total delivery time. About 1 to 1.5 weeks to taobao agent's warehouse in Shanghai and another 1 to 1.5 weeks from Shanghai to my local collection point. For some reason, the taobao sellers do appear to work more efficiently locally than Ali sellers internationally, or perhaps agents get VIP treatments for being such big purchasers of everything on taobao. You should give it a try.


 
 Who do you use as agent? MisterTao?


----------



## purplesun

jasru said:


> Who do you use as agent? MisterTao?


 
  
 Ezbuy, but I think they only handle Pacific region customers.
 All taobao agents should mostly have the same setup everywhere.
 (Example: Pay for = Items purchased + Domestic shipping + International shipping + Agent fee)
  
 You just need to brush up on your Google translator, and get amazed at how much more stuff taobao has over Ali!
 Some search words that may help:
 Earbuds = *平头塞* / 平头耳机 / 平头塞耳机
 Ohms = *欧*


----------



## teston

zombiewinegum said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-New-K-s-Earphone-500-ohm-Balanced-High-Impedance-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud-500-ohms/519064_32751678102.html
> 
> k's earphone 500ohm will be going on sale for £60 on the 11th. Worth it?



It's just me or anyone see this is not available?


----------



## vapman

jant71 said:


> I just ordered a bit ago from HCK both items via epacket. Tracking has gone live on USPS so the number seems real. Hopefully I'm good


 

 Yeah but did the tracking go live right away or did you have to wait almost 2 weeks before it did? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 OF course there are times the tracking actually went live in less than 3 days but the usual rule of thumb, as others here have experienced, is far too open your tracking sits as "invalid tracking number" on 17track and Ali's own tracking services, you message them like "hey whats up with this?" and you get a "Friend, it's on its way since 2 days ago! Watch today for an update!" and it says "Accepted" the day after.
  
*If they just told the damn truth that "sorry, we've been busy or lazy or are waiting for something to get in first, then we'll ship" they wouldn't have to deal with 90% of the complaints they do!*
  
 For my own sanity i'm keeping these shipping speed complaints in here and not even venturing into the threads where all they do is discuss Aliexpress IEMs at 1000 miles a second.
  
 FWIW the Qian39 is not worth recabling if you're looking for sonic improvements BTW. Not that I only did that one with the Koss cable, but with other ones too, just not worth it unless the cable breaks.
  
 Anyway, hope you get your stuff fast dude. and @purplesun if the tracking is still invalid you might consider opening a dispute to get the order cancelled on grounds the seller is not shipping. Never opened a dispute before anything arrived though, unless tracking hadn't updated and the protection time was about to run out.
  


nachash said:


> Oh, you meant 50 worldwide... I thought that it was 50 per seller.
> 
> regarding the seller, as long as I receive the products it's all fine by me. If I don't receive it/the product is damaged, I will just open a dispute


 

 Yeah I do mean 50 worldwide.
 Sorry for the mixup.


----------



## purplesun

> Originally Posted by *vapman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> @purplesun if the tracking is still invalid you might consider opening a dispute to get the order cancelled on grounds the seller is not shipping. Never opened a dispute before anything arrived though, unless tracking hadn't updated and the protection time was about to run out.


 

 About 3 weeks from when I got the tracking number until the package was picked up.
 But, to be fair, it was a pre-sale so I waited about 10 days before asking for status.
 Then came the standard bullsh!t line you mentioned.


----------



## magitka27

Hey guys i need your opinion

Should i sell my beloved seahf smart 1.0 150ohm to buy ve asura 2.0?

Is it considered as an upgrade??


----------



## vapman

magitka27 said:


> Hey guys i need your opinion
> 
> Should i sell my beloved seahf smart 1.0 150ohm to buy ve asura 2.0?
> 
> Is it considered as an upgrade??


 

 Well of course my suggestion is buy the Asura 2.0 and sell the one you like less.
  But not everyone can afford to buy all they want and then sell the leftovers (like me)
 so I'll let you know the Seahf 150ohm is closest soundwise to Asura 2.0 - same energy, overall sound quality.
 Might be a small upgrade, but if you want a different sound character, consider another bud.
 If you love the sound character but want MORE of it then go asura 2.0!
  
  


purplesun said:


> About 3 weeks from when I got the tracking number until the package was picked up.
> But, to be fair, it was a pre-sale so I waited about 10 days before asking for status.
> Then came the standard bullsh!t line you mentioned.


 
  
 One day I hope we can bring our frustration about the shipping lies to all our favorite Ali seller's attentions and end this practice, which nobody has ever bought for a second, once and for all. That might be a pipe dream though. I have made my feelings on the matter clear to "Nice" HCK...
  
  
  
  
 And at least... to keep it on topic.... while the Koss volume slider cable drove me nuts from the KTXPRO1 onto the Qian39 (a great budget phone to learn to recable with, btw) and vice versa, I've never been happier with either?


----------



## magitka27

vapman said:


> Well of course my suggestion is buy the Asura 2.0 and sell the one you like less.
> 
> But not everyone can afford to buy all they want and then sell the leftovers (like me)
> so I'll let you know the Seahf 150ohm is closest soundwise to Asura 2.0 - same energy, overall sound quality.
> ...




Yes i love the sound of my seahf and i want some improvement !!! Then i have to buy it asap!!!

For weeks i stalked, read this thread carefully, analyzed every single review to made up my mind which earbud is the best choice for me.. until last night my venomous friend came and texted me about the asura, while i'm considering Musicmaker Mrz Ting for an upgrade XD


----------



## tukangketik

magitka27 said:


> Hey guys i need your opinion
> 
> Should i sell my beloved seahf smart 1.0 150ohm to buy ve asura 2.0?
> 
> Is it considered as an upgrade??


 

 You should add pictures to this post so people would know that your Seahf is different than others have experienced here. As far as I know most of headfier here refer the seahf150 as the black one with braided cable. not the Zen look alike 
 They both do sound different tho


----------



## AudioNewbi3

luedriver said:


> I think I remember reading that,  I thought it was other earbuds, I ordered them on august, so I probably don't have them for 3 months yet, hopefully, they can fix mine as well
> 
> till then at least I will have the hp-650 to use if it comes soon this week


 
 Yup, that was my post......however the mods removed a few posts after the whole shenanigan a few weeks ago.....


----------



## vapman

@magitka27
  
 Honestly..... 11.11 is not far away. Get a Cygnus for under $60 USD then,,,, it will be better than the Asura 2.0. My opinion of course, but the Cygnus is more different than the Asura 2.0 will be, but also better in some respects than both 150 and Asura 2.0. and a better all rounder than either.


----------



## magitka27

tukangketik said:


> You should add pictures to this post so people would know that your Seahf is different than others have experienced here. As far as I know most of headfier here refer the seahf150 as the black one with braided cable. not the Zen look alike
> They both do sound different tho




Im sorry i dont know how to post picture from desktop, here it is my seahf smart 1.0 , white housing with white zen look a like cable, 

Soundsig is cold-analytical with extended treble hehe, its an old pic btw




vapman said:


> @magitka27
> 
> 
> Honestly..... 11.11 is not far away. Get a Cygnus for under $60 USD then,,,, it will be better than the Asura 2.0. My opinion of course, but the Cygnus is more different than the Asura 2.0 will be, but also better in some respects than both 150 and Asura 2.0. and a better all rounder than either.




I do have my sights on those cygnus and tbh i dont have any experiences in overseas-shopping vapman  i'm afraid something bad will happen (of course we have to think positively) but yeah for 11.11 i'm aiming for toneking tky2 , 

Currently i'm not looking for an all-around earbud bcs (oh i hate to say this, i already have another in ear for my allrounder needs)

Btw i will search some tips and aiming for that cygnus, or maybe the shozy bk xD


----------



## music4mhell

I think those who have Shozy BK(Stardust) and TY650 both. They don't need to buy any other earbuds 
 I am very happy these two, now i have no curiosity about K500/ Masya also. I think i can live with these two earbuds only...
  
 Let see how long i stick to above comments


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman Have you had a chance to hear K's 500 yet? Debating them for 11.11.


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> @vapman Have you had a chance to hear K's 500 yet? Debating them for 11.11.


 
  
 Sadly I have not. However I always had a feeling it wouldn't be the sound I'm after, so I was never interested to go for them anyway... I'd love to hear them but don't think I'll be buying a set anytime soon.


----------



## danimoca

Quite interested on those K500's now. Do they have a food soundstage?


----------



## purplesun

music4mhell said:


> I think those who have Shozy BK(Stardust) and TY650 both. They don't need to buy any other earbuds
> I am very happy these two, now i have no curiosity about K500/ Masya also. I think i can live with these two earbuds only...
> Let see how long i stick to above comments


 
  
 Posted 35 minutes ago. It must true love for you, @music4mhell, not look another earbud in such a long time.


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> I think those who have Shozy BK(Stardust) and TY650 both. They don't need to buy any other earbuds
> I am very happy these two, now i have no curiosity about K500/ Masya also. I think i can live with these two earbuds only...
> 
> Let see how long i stick to above comments


 

 It will change within one week.  

 I could say the same about Blox TM7 and Cypherus QFred. They work great together: the full and lush sound of TM7 and the first class soundstage and instrument separation of QFred.

 The last few years I've been looking for something that can beat Blox TM7. With QFred I have found an equal that is almost as good and just different (TM7 wins because it works better with my favorite genre metal - QFred works great with more atmospheric music such as pop and classical).

 Still I'll spend $450 on Cypherus QFred and CAX black edition this coming week. On my purchase list after that is TY HiZ HP650, K's 500 ohm, Shozy Stardust, Ostry KC08. Then VE Nirvana when it comes out. And the new Blox flagship if it's relased in the spring (I hope...). I might be leaving something out. There's just too many earbuds now and too little time and money. It's a drug that never lets you go...

 Edit: I forgot Rose Masya. After selling Mojito I might check Masya out instead...


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I think those who have Shozy BK(Stardust) and TY650 both. They don't need to buy any other earbuds
> ...


 
 Thanks for your input. Right now i am happy with Shozy Stardust and TY650. So, may be i won't buy Qfred and Campfred for now. (May be next year)


----------



## music4mhell

purplesun said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I think those who have Shozy BK(Stardust) and TY650 both. They don't need to buy any other earbuds
> ...


 
 After a long time i am happy with these earbuds. May be i am tuned to the sound signature of these... Forward intimate voals with nice touch of Lows and Highs and with good separation


----------



## teston

music4mhell said:


> After a long time i am happy with these earbuds. May be i am tuned to the sound signature of these... Forward intimate voals with nice touch of Lows and Highs and with good separation


 
 Can you write a brief description of these earbuds sound signature?
 I am very interested in K's 500 and HP650, but don't know if it's worth to invest more for Masya/ Shozy BK


----------



## music4mhell

teston said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > After a long time i am happy with these earbuds. May be i am tuned to the sound signature of these... Forward intimate voals with nice touch of Lows and Highs and with good separation
> ...


 
 K500 & Masya will reach in few days.. then i will compare all 4, also Stardust and TY650 is still in burning phase. So i will take some more time.


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> Thanks for your input. Right now i am happy with Shozy Stardust and TY650. So, may be i won't buy Qfred and Campfred for now. (May be next year)


 
  
 Sure. Remember that they are super limited. Probably less than 100 pairs of each were made (I think I read that each batch was around 20 pairs) and perhaps 3-4 batches were released). CampFred is already discontinued but Herry of cypherus has got a few drivers left and can custom make them if someone wants to buy a pair.
 The only thing that keeps them from selling out is the high price and the lack of reviews in English. To me, QFred is the biggest earbud discovery in 4 years (since Blox TM7 in 2012).

 CAX black edition is his top end earbud but it was never up for sale. Apparently it uses a cardas cable. Herry just wanted to make as good sounding an earbud as he could. He now has 3 pairs and will hold on to one for me (I have not dared to mention CAX black edition before since there are ony 3 pairs but since I'll order them later this week I guess it's okay now).

 Cypherus might release a new earbud next year to replace QFred so that might be worth to check out.


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for your input. Right now i am happy with Shozy Stardust and TY650. So, may be i won't buy Qfred and Campfred for now. (May be next year)
> ...


 
 Yes, thanks. Also right now so many high end earbuds lying there. Let me enjoy each... 
 May be once you get TY650/Stardut, you will share your comparison with Qfred.


----------



## Danneq

I really really do not have the money, but $76 for TY HP650 on 11.11 is just to good to pass...


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> I really really do not have the money, but $76 for TY HP650 on 11.11 is just to good to pass...




That's a great price. Wish i had gotten it for that much....

What other buds do you know that are similar in sound to QFred? I am really interested to try one but am hesitant to spend that much! The CAX sounds too good but I'd have a hard time going for a one-in-three model.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Guys, this might be somewhat out of topic, but how does one set their shipping address on AE? I just signed up for AE and I cant seem to find the option to set my shipping address.

 And is paypal accepted? Or only debit and credit cards?

 Thank-you


----------



## JASru

audionewbi3 said:


> Guys, this might be somewhat out of topic, but how does one set their shipping address on AE? I just signed up for AE and I cant seem to find the option to set my shipping address.
> 
> And is paypal accepted? Or only debit and credit cards?
> 
> Thank-you


 
 Paypal is not accepted. You can set the adress right before paying. Alternatively you can alter or input it here (desktop ver) - https://ilogisticsaddress.aliexpress.com/addressList.htm


----------



## JASru

1) I guess there are some K's 64 owners here?
 How good is it? I have some cheapo-options already and wonder if is worth buying it. (TP16, QIAN 39, RX-1, Tomahawk, SHE3800, ATH-C770, Monk+)
  
 2) Any news regarding Rose Technology 64ohm? 
 Sound sig, price, availability, anything? 
  
 3) PT15 owners - are you here?
 How's it?
  
 4) Anyone has info on this manufacturer/DIYer? - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-Original-LaoZe-DIY-3-5mm-In-Ear-Flat-Head-Plug-Earphone-Earplug-Bass-HIFI-Earphone/32756525581.html?spm=2114.13010308.0.0.MYIvDZ


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> That's a great price. Wish i had gotten it for that much....
> 
> What other buds do you know that are similar in sound to QFred? I am really interested to try one but am hesitant to spend that much! The CAX sounds too good but I'd have a hard time going for a one-in-three model.


 

 I made a promise to not buy anything for a while since I will spend so much on CampFred and CAX black editon. Well, I am selling a lot of stuff to finace that. Just sold my pair of Rose Mojito to @springbay
  
 But I really liked your review of HP650 and the sale price is just too good.

 The thing about QFred is that I have never heard anything in earbuds that is similar to them. Perhaps AKG K319 can be a very distant, but still relatively close comparison? A thinner sort of sound. Great depth in the soundstage. First class instrument separation. It doesn't work well with more "meaty" music such as metal. Such music requires more "oomph" in the bass department and an overall more beefy sound. Bass is not bad on QFred, it's just that it's more quality than quantity.
 If you listen to well produced Jpop QFred might fit like hand in glove. For bassy dance music it might not work at all (I have not tried that sort of music though). CampFred might work better with metal and more bassy dance music than QFred. I'll see when I have bought that...

 Overall I prefer generalist or jack of all trades earbuds such as Blox TM7 or Sennheiser MX980/985. QFred is very special, though.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

jasru said:


> Paypal is not accepted. You can set the adress right before paying. Alternatively you can alter or input it here (desktop ver) - https://ilogisticsaddress.aliexpress.com/addressList.htm


 
 Sweet!!!! Thanks!


----------



## rockingthearies

vapman said:


> Sadly I have not. However I always had a feeling it wouldn't be the sound I'm after, so I was never interested to go for them anyway... I'd love to hear them but don't think I'll be buying a set anytime soon.


 
 Yeap I do not think it is your preferred sound signature, the K500 seems to be for trebleheads, the bass is not even as powerful as the ZS3. If the ZS3 is dark, the K500 is the total opposite, it is really bright with lots of details.


----------



## rockingthearies

music4mhell said:


> Thanks for your input. Right now i am happy with Shozy Stardust and TY650. So, may be i won't buy Qfred and Campfred for now. (May be next year)


 
 What is the sound signature like for the Shozy Stardust and the TY650?


----------



## music4mhell

rockingthearies said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for your input. Right now i am happy with Shozy Stardust and TY650. So, may be i won't buy Qfred and Campfred for now. (May be next year)
> ...


 
 Stardust and TY650 is quite similar, but Stardust is more dynamic and it has better controlled bass. But it's still early impressions.
 I need more time to compare these 2.


----------



## luedriver

jasru said:


> 2) Any news regarding Rose Technology 64ohm?
> Sound sig, price, availability, anything?


 
 +1 if the masya is the baby mojito, this could be mojito's grandchild 
  
 update on ty hp32 kinda flat sounding to my ears now (could be the fact that my brain is subconsciously comparing them to the cygnus), sony's sound nice with full foams, and senn's mx170's have decent amount of clarity and even bass (but not sub-bass more like mid-upper) without any foams
  
 I will be sending the cygnus back to its maker for repairs, the cost of sounding that great from New Old Stock


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> Still I'll spend $450 on Cypherus QFred and CAX black edition this coming week.


 
  
 The amount you are going to spend is already something. All right Daniel, negotiate the prices. We could make a group purchase from Cypherus. At least we could save on that expensive EMS shipment. But you would have to manage the whole deal  
  
 P.S. Are 2 people a group already or is it merely a pair? Oh, I think it counts from 3.


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> The amount you are going to spend is already something. All right Daniel, negotiate the prices. We could make a group purchase from Cypherus. At least we could save on that expensive EMS shipment. But you would have to manage the whole deal
> 
> P.S. Are 2 people a group already or is it merely a pair? Oh, I think it counts from 3.


 



 Whoops!
 I meant Cypherus CampFred and not QFred. I already have QFred. I will buy *CampFred* and CAX black edition later this week.

 I want to get them as soon as possible but I am sure that Herry of Cypherus would be willing to work out a deal. He's not much for giving discount, though. I do get a slight discount on CampFred, but that is only because I buy the complete lineup of Cypherus earbuds (QFred, CampFred & CAX black edition).
 My experience with QFred is enough for me to blindly buy any earbud that Cypherus releases. At least up to $300...

 If there are 3-4 people in Europe who are willing to make a group purchase I could discuss it will Herry of Cypherus. However I would not take part in the purchase. He might release a successor to QFred next year so perhaps we could arrange it then? I would definitely take part then!


----------



## Fabi

danneq said:


> Whoops!
> I meant Cypherus CampFred and not QFred. I already have QFred. I will buy *CampFred* and CAX black edition later this week.
> 
> I want to get them as soon as possible but I am sure that Herry of Cypherus would be willing to work out a deal. He's not much for giving discount, though. I do get a slight discount on CampFred, but that is only because I buy the complete lineup of Cypherus earbuds (QFred, CampFred & CAX black edition).
> ...


 
 Interesting.
 Btw please remind me which the flagship is (QFred?), so then what is CampFred and Cax Black Edition in the line-up? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I just remembered earlier this year King Rudi has the Cy Ax Golden Reference, which is kind of legendary.


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> I buy the complete lineup of Cypherus earbuds (QFred, CampFred & CAX black edition).


 
  
 So you are getting so called "Cypherus starter pack"


----------



## Danneq

fabi said:


> Interesting.
> Btw please remind me which the flagship is (QFred?), so then what is CampFred and Cax Black Edition in the line-up?
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think Cypherus only has one earbud at a time. CampFred was first and is discontinued, but Herry of Cypherus can custom make CampFred of someone want to buy a pair. He told me he still has CampFred drivers. QFred is the current earbud from Cypherus.

 CAX/Cy Ax black edition is a more simple version of CAX/Cy Ax golden reference (although they use different drivers). It was never meant to be for sale but he's made something like 5-10 pairs and if someone wants to buy a pair he can sell them.
  


tomasz2d said:


> So you are getting so called "Cypherus starter pack"


 

 I'm getting knocked in my head if my wife gets to know the price of those earbuds... I do not think it will help that I'm selling stuff to finance the purchase.


----------



## JASru

I keep comparing Qian 39 to TP-16 and for me - Toneking wins.
 It is worse in terms of bang for the buck, but if it is about sound signature I would preffer it. Tp-16 has more air, it is colder, more neutral and analytical, it has better cable and chin strap.
  
 Not trying toimply that 39 is bad. No, it is good. Especially given the price. 
 It is cozy like an afternoon in an old chair with a capuchino, while TP-16 is more like  a fresh air blowing in your face while you run by the sea. Both are good but only one is "my cup of tea".
  
 Anyway - thx to vapman for  bringing attention to this small masterpiece.


----------



## JASru

BTW if you are in need to test earphone's spatials and separation - here is one of the tracks that can be used:
  
 https://reidwillis.bandcamp.com/track/childhood-wonder 

 One of my favorites for testing.


----------



## Tonx

K's 64 ohm or ty hi-z 150 ohm - any thoughts?


----------



## Fabi

danneq said:


> I think Cypherus only has one earbud at a time. CampFred was first and is discontinued, but Herry of Cypherus can custom make CampFred of someone want to buy a pair. He told me he still has CampFred drivers. QFred is the current earbud from Cypherus.
> 
> CAX/Cy Ax black edition is a more simple version of CAX/Cy Ax golden reference (although they use different drivers). It was never meant to be for sale but he's made something like 5-10 pairs and if someone wants to buy a pair he can sell them.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the info.
 Well, I think many of us will be very interested in your impressions of all your Cy earbuds 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 I am not ready to put some much money atm for a pair but maybe later. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Let's hope your wife won't find out.
 If so, tell her that it's only a group buy to ship to other EU earbuddies like us, don't worry I'll help you to testify


----------



## Fabi

tonx said:


> K's 64 ohm or ty hi-z 150 ohm - any thoughts?


 
 K's 64 vs TY 32 2.0 is on the way in a few hours mate


----------



## Willber

jasru said:


> BTW if you are in need to test earphone's spatials and separation - here is one of the tracks that can be used:
> 
> https://reidwillis.bandcamp.com/track/childhood-wonder
> 
> One of my favorites for testing.


 
  
 Yes, good track. I use this one usually, especially the last minute:
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v_QV-SJ4bQ


----------



## kerulberul

3 buds came in today. really liking the eo320 so far and very impressed with the qian39.
 really happy with this purchase.


----------



## golov17

https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=4


----------



## Willber

kerulberul said:


> 3 buds came in today. really liking the eo320 so far and very impressed with the qian39.
> really happy with this purchase.


 
  
 Your thoughts are the same as mine.
 I see you got the RX-1 as well - I'm not impressed by them.


----------



## JASru

willber said:


> Your thoughts are the same as mine.
> I see you got the RX-1 as well - I'm not impressed by them.


 
 Try them with guitar and vocals-based tracks, this one for example - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLV4_xaYynY /RX-1 is very genre specific,  but it is good in what it is for. Totally not an all-rounder.


----------



## kerulberul

jasru said:


> Try them with guitar and vocals-based tracks, this one for example - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLV4_xaYynY /RX-1 is very genre specific,  but it is good in what it is for. Totally not an all-rounder.


 
 figured as much. tried them with some acoustic covers and radwimps songs and loved them there


----------



## Willber

jasru said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Your thoughts are the same as mine.
> ...


 
 Yes, I can see that they would be more suited to that genre but the EO320 does that just as well and adds deeper base and a wider soundstage IMO. I have plenty of others for the sort of music I listen to, though, so I'll probably move them on.


----------



## JASru

golov17 said:


> https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=4


 
 2x ordered.
 Thx for the notification!)


----------



## Townyj

golov17 said:


> https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=4




No matter what colour they bring out.. the TP16 will always sound better then a Monk+  good sales tactic for people collect colours of the same bud.


----------



## JASru

townyj said:


> No matter what colour they bring out.. the TP16 will always sound better then a Monk+
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Gifts, my friend, gifts =) the season is coming and I, as well as many other ppl, need cheap small gifts for colleagues. This one is well-made, has decent looks and maybe will bring more adepts to our earbud sect *evil laughter*


----------



## Townyj

jasru said:


> Gifts, my friend, gifts =) the season is coming and I, as well as many other ppl, need cheap small gifts for colleagues. This one is well-made, has decent looks and maybe will bring more adepts to our earbud sect *evil laughter*:evil:




Oh yes.. good gift i must admit!  im sure they will fall into the trap and end up here, then say goodbye to their wallets haha.


----------



## ProspektFi

Hi guys, this is my first post on Head-Fi forum but I follow this thread from some months and I've read all the posts. I prefer earbuds to any other headphone format simply for comfort reasons. I can not call myself an audiophile or expert, but I love to hear music in a decent way. So, I will not use very technical terms  .
  
 Talking about earbuds, currently I own Sennheiser MX375, original Monk, Monk+ (mmm, actually they are not mine but of my brother 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and Monk+ Candy. I have also Superlux HD681 EVO, Xiaomi Piston 2 and Koss KSC75, and I'm waiting for a pair of Qian39.
  
 Trying to help you understand what are my sound preferences, I can tell you this:
  
 - Piston 2 sounds really bad.
 - Monk Candy is my favourite 'bud at the moment.
 - Superlux HD681 EVO is actually my reference, I really like it.
  
 I'm really happy with Superlux sound, but I can't wear it for more than half a hour because I find it very uncomfortable... Candies sounds really good for the price with no doubts, and I listen to it regularly, but they lose in every department compared to the Superlux and they doesn't always satisfy me. So my question is: there are earbuds that can sound similar to the EVO? I mean at least with the same detail, separation, frequency response and his full size headphone "feeling"? And how much should I spend for it?
    
 I hope I explained myself, since english is not my native language. Thanks in advance


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=4


 
 ugh....... I can't pass this up!
  
 I have never heard the TP16 but I will honestly be shocked if it has a more natural sound than Monk+. My experience with Musicmaker earbuds has never been favorable. I gave away my Green Ting which is far more realistic sounding than the Tomahawk. If someone gives me a TP16 to listen to I'd be happy to but I have no intention whatsoever to spend my money on it. Green Ting was alright at first but quickly became forgettable for me...
  
 Also because of @Danneq I am also saving up for a Fred bud 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 hopefully they still exist when I have the money to spend on them..... specific tuning or not, _I must hear them!_
  
  


prospektfi said:


> I'm really happy with Superlux sound, but I can't wear it for more than half a hour because I find it very uncomfortable... Candies sounds really good for the price with no doubts, and I listen to it regularly, but they lose in every department compared to the Superlux and they doesn't always satisfy me. So my question is: there are earbuds that can sound similar to the EVO? I mean at least with the same detail, separation, frequency response and his full size headphone "feeling"? And how much should I spend for it?


 
 You might like the soiund of Qian39 but it won't give you the separation and full size feeling you're looking for. I think you are a prime candidate for the Edimun V3. Very few buds I have tried give that true full size headphone feeling along with the rest of the things you want. It's about 55 + shipping which is by EMS if you're outside Indonesia, is about $30 USD to ship for USA/Euro people.
  
 IF you want a china made bud from the Aliexpress 11.11 sale I can't really think of anything that is under $100 and gives you full size headphone feeling. Most do the other 3 great but still have an in ear sound feeling....


----------



## Ira Delphic

prospektfi said:


> Hi guys, this is my first post on Head-Fi forum but I follow this thread from some months and I've read all the posts. I prefer earbuds to any other headphone format simply for comfort reasons. I can not call myself an audiophile or expert, but I love to hear music in a decent way. So, I will not use very technical terms  .
> 
> Talking about earbuds, currently I own Sennheiser MX375, original Monk, Monk+ (mmm, actually they are not mine but of my brother
> 
> ...


 
  
 What don't you like about Piston 2 sound? If you could be more specific that would be helpful!


----------



## ProspektFi

> Originally Posted by *vapman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> You might like the soiund of Qian39 but it won't give you the separation and full size feeling you're looking for. I think you are a prime candidate for the Edimun V3. Very few buds I have tried give that true full size headphone feeling along with the rest of the things you want. It's about 55 + shipping which is by EMS if you're outside Indonesia, is about $30 USD to ship for USA/Euro people.
> 
> IF you want a china made bud from the Aliexpress 11.11 sale I can't really think of anything that is under $100 and gives you full size headphone feeling. Most do the other 3 great but still have an in ear sound feeling....


 
  
 Thanks for your reply. I'm from Italy, so the Edimun V3 should cost about 85$. At the moment my budget is very limited but I take care of any suggestion for the future. I bought the Qian39 just to try something different for a really affordable price .
  
 Now I try a different approach: what earbud can be considered an overall improvement over the Candy, with better bass and a fuller, more punchy sound, but keeping a balanced signature, with a price under 50$?
  


ira delphic said:


> What don't you like about Piston 2 sound? If you could be more specific that would be helpful!


 
  
 I find it muddy, lacking definition, maybe too much V-shaped for my tastes. The worst of all the heaphones I own by a good margin. They sound acceptable to me only with heavy EQ. I remember when I had Viper4android on my smartphone with a dedicated configuration found on the web and it was sounding much much better. The fact is that I like headphones that not need equalization, or just a little bit, and I hate in ear format


----------



## vapman

prospektfi said:


> Thanks for your reply. I'm from Italy, so the Edimun V3 should cost about 85$. At the moment my budget is very limited but I take care of any suggestion for the future. I bought the Qian39 just to try something different for a really affordable price .
> 
> Now I try a different approach: what earbud can be considered an overall improvement over the Candy, with better bass and a fuller, more punchy sound, but keeping a balanced signature, with a price under 50$?
> 
> ...


 

 Well, I think you will be very happy when your Qian39 arrives  If you like it when it arrives, I think you can safely set your sights for Edimun. I don't think Asura 2.0 is the way you want to go.You might like it but I don't think it's got very great bass or punch.
  
 edit, nevermind, sorry @ProspektFi but I misread your post. if you DON'T want a v-shape sound for under $50 get a Hifiman ES100 but buy it new in case you have to use the warranty!


----------



## MRK1

I just love the clarity and detail of the RX1. What could be a step up from this without spending a fortune? These are just lovely for uplifting trance...
Something that will bring the synth even more forward and with more detail.


----------



## JASru

mrk1 said:


> I just love the clarity and detail of the RX1. What could be a step up from this without spending a fortune? These are just lovely for uplifting trance...
> Something that will bring the synth even more forward and with more detail.


 
 Shozy Cygnus, I guess.


----------



## vapman

mrk1 said:


> I just love the clarity and detail of the RX1. What could be a step up from this without spending a fortune? These are just lovely for uplifting trance...
> Something that will bring the synth even more forward and with more detail.


 

 I say either get the Cygnus on sale for under $60 or see how much shipping for the Edimun V3 is to you as it's $55 before shipping... the poster a few posts above you is from Italy too and sees $85 total


----------



## MRK1

jasru said:


> Shozy Cygnus, I guess.







vapman said:


> I say either get the Cygnus on sale for under $60 or see how much shipping for the Edimun V3 is to you as it's $55 before shipping... the poster a few posts above you is from Italy too and sees $85 total




I heard the Cygnus is not as good as the earlier batches, in a similar way to the older baldoor e100, is it true? And how can I get the discount price for the Cygnus?


----------



## vapman

mrk1 said:


> I heard the Cygnus is not as good as the earlier batches, in a similar way to the older baldoor e100, is it true? And how can I get the discount price for the Cygnus?


 

 The Aliexpress 11.11 sale. I don't know anything about bad Cygnus batches....they're very well regarded around here, a couple people have had driver problems but had them repaired by Shozy. But that is less than 5 people out of hundreds of happy users.
  
 you know i was looking for my old Baldoor E100 to recable last night, but couldn't find it anywhere...


----------



## ProspektFi

vapman said:


> Well, I think you will be very happy when your Qian39 arrives  If you like it when it arrives, I think you can safely set your sights for Edimun. I don't think Asura 2.0 is the way you want to go.You might like it but I don't think it's got very great bass or punch.




Perfect! I will share my impressions on the Qian39 when it will be in my hands.




vapman said:


> the poster a few posts above you is from Italy too and sees $85 total




I said 85 based on your indication (55 + 30 in Europe/USA). I've not verified personally yet .


----------



## purplesun

prospektfi said:


> Thanks for your reply. I'm from Italy, so the Edimun V3 should cost about 85$. At the moment my budget is very limited but I take care of any suggestion for the future. I bought the Qian39 just to try something different for a really affordable price .
> 
> Now I try a different approach: what earbud can be considered an overall improvement over the Candy, with better bass and a fuller, more punchy sound, but keeping a balanced signature, with a price under 50$?
> 
> I find it muddy, lacking definition, maybe too much V-shaped for my tastes. The worst of all the heaphones I own by a good margin. They sound acceptable to me only with heavy EQ. I remember when I had Viper4android on my smartphone with a dedicated configuration found on the web and it was sounding much much better. The fact is that I like headphones that not need equalization, or just a little bit, and I hate in ear format




You did not mention the player that you are using. Having a better high-resolution player with good power delivery will also move the candy up the sound quality ladder. The candy's SQ scales up & down very noticeably with different source equipment you feed it. As you already like the Candy, you might want to test that out first before changing to another earbud.


----------



## ProspektFi

purplesun said:


> You did not mention the player that you are using. Having a better high-resolution player with good power delivery will also move the candy up the sound quality ladder. The candy's SQ scales up & down very noticeably with different source equipment you feed it. As you already like the Candy, you might want to test that out first before changing to another earbud.




You're right, I forgot to mention my sources: Topping NX2 DAC/AMP with my smartphone with USB Audio Player Pro and my PC with a Soundblaster Z.


----------



## vapman

prospektfi said:


> Perfect! I will share my impressions on the Qian39 when it will be in my hands.
> 
> 
> I said 85 based on your indication (55 + 30 in Europe/USA). I've not verified personally yet  .





Ah, sorry, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth, but I do know Head-Fi'ers from Europe who paid the exact same amount I paid to have it shipped to the USA.

BTW, for all *Qian39* owners, I noticed the resistance of my Qian39 went from ~15 ohms to 62 ohms after installing my old Koss KTXPRO1 cable on it! So the resistor must be in with the inline volume control. Now it requires much more volume, the bass isn't quite as overpowering (but no less deep) and overall sound more balanced as compared to the stock cabled Qian39 - very interesting for a modding platform! (yup, I have 2 other Qian39)

I don't think I've ever said anything good about a Koss cable before in my whole life...






You're right. How's 45 watts?


----------



## purplesun

prospektfi said:


> You're right, I forgot to mention my sources: Topping NX2 DAC/AMP with my smartphone with USB Audio Player Pro and my PC with a Soundblaster Z.



Can't comment much about your sources as I have never heard them before. But as an example: I usually play my candy with either Galaxy Alpha smartphone or Fiio E10k dac;they both sounded similar (balanced sound but a bit dark). When I switch to a Breeze Audio clone of the Shozy Aegis dac, the whole presentation just grew twice the size and instruments definition became more full-bodied. But I would not recommend this BA dac as it is hissy like crazy; you should try out your candy with other sources first to see if you can eke out a better sound from it.


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> You're right. How's 45 watts?




Speaking as an old-school British amp fan, that's a shocking amount of power! IIRC, 8.5watt was more than enough for each of my box speakers. Heck, even my pre/power only had 32watt into my tower speakers on a good day  But I think I digress from little speakers for the ears.


----------



## mochill

Stardust in the house, smooth and very open soundstage, bass has some power more then Cygnus, treble is smoother.


----------



## Fabi

My impressions on K's 64 white version vs TY 32 2.0
 Received K's 64 a couple of days ago, it already sounds good ootb but I let them 20+ hrs burn in.
  

  
 On this white version, the cable and the plug are very good but I don't know why on earth on this version, the cable is 1.5m long, it's too long for outdoor, on the go use! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Damn it, I obviously like making jump shots swoosh but I'm not as tall as LeBron James 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Note that I have microphonics on the left earbud when I shake my head quickly or move the cable near the left shell. But while listening, it doesn't bother me.
  
  
 K's 64: on my dap on high gain, thin foams, more power than other earbuds, otherwise it sounds distant and bass has not much impact.
 TY 32 2.0: on mid gain, multi-holed thick foams to tame higher midrange/treble and to bring body on lower midrange.
  
  
 I would describe K's 64 sound as balanced, neutral with a tiny hint of warmth and with a wide and immersive soundstage.
 Bass is so deep 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, tight and clean, just the right amount and no bleeding. When well-powered, the impact is there. On TY 32, there is more bass quantity, maybe too much sometimes and rounder.
 Midrange is full, maybe more detailed and cleaner than TY 32 2.0 cause TY is warmer. Both have beautiful midrange.
 Treble is better than on TY 32, well extended, detailed, well controlled with sparkle, not much harshness. I'm a little bit sensitive btw but it sounds fine for me. On TY 32, treble is smoother and no-fatiguing.
 Soundstage is wide and immersive with a good depth. A very good point.
 The sound presentation is less forward than with TY and has more air between notes.
 Separation and resolution are top notch for the price.
 Both earbuds sound different, to sum this up, TY sounds rather forward, warm and smooth, K's wide, balanced and lively. I have to say I like both.
  
  
 Overall imho K's 64 just sounds the way the music should sound, not more not less, which I like.
 It sounds just right, accurate, no big emphasis on any frequency range, which may not suit everyone.
 Plugged to RA Plus on 13V, it sounds even better with a wider and even more immersive soundstage. I can imagine the potential the more expensive model can have.
 In the sub $15 earbuds, K's 64 may have the most complete and mature sound I've tried so far. But I haven't tried them all of course. There are still so many.
  
 From memory, comparing with other earbuds of around the same kind I had, TP16 is very good technically but it has a too distant presentation and sounds neutral, analytical and boring unfortunately for me. Mrice E100 (the good one) is flat sounding, very good technically but too flat and wide, a bit lifeless in the lows.
  
 For outdoor use, I will still be using TY 32 2.0, more practical for me with L-plug and a normal length cable and I won't worry if it breaks.
 I'll enjoy these K's 64 a few weeks before I eventually sell it to an other buddy who would like to try K's sound.
 Now that I've tried and enjoyed the cheapest version of K's, like I did with TY 32 and 400s before, I will certainly give K's 500 a go (a champion 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) to reach a higher level of refinement, maybe TY650 too, decisions, decisions...
 But I'll also need a new amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I already have one on target. I am sorry for my wallet.


----------



## slim311

I think I've been spending too much time reading this thread. I saw this at work the other day and all I could think of was earbuds:




Back on topic though, did anybody else notice there is now an android-compatible 3-button mic option for the royal purple Monk+? I was going to add some Meizu EP21 or EP21HD when I place my 11.11 order, just for the android 3-button remote, but this seems like a much better option. Haven't really seen too much info here about the Meizu.


----------



## vapman

@Fabi which amp are you thinking about? amping rules 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



@slim311 Yup, saw about it in the Monk thread and ordered myself a 3 button purple monk. Really excited for it because I never got around to ordering a plain color one and absolutely love the color of the purple. Plus I won't have to switch to mic'd buds in order to take calls. Knowing myself I will probably end up plugging it straight into my mixer and recording with my Monk+...


----------



## SuperLuigi

So I was thinking I'm starting to collect far too many budget headphones and I still have a couple of pairs of monks I've never even opened.  Anyone else have any unopened headphones they might want to trade?  Seems like it'd be a cheap and fun way to try out some more buds 
  
 I'm located in Canada so I'd love to trade with someone in Canada or US, that way postage will only be like a dollar.


----------



## Fabi

vapman said:


> @Fabi
> which amp are you thinking about? amping rules



Actually I was lurking at it for years but didn't need one til now. As a (trans)portable guy who's looking for the best sound in the smallest package and not too much expensive to convince my wallet, I plan to order for christmas............ Corda Quickstep silver from the great Jan Meier of Germany.
And if needed, a 5to15V regulated SMPS for versatility with earphones/headphones. I guess I wouldn't need any other portable amp for years after this one  Supposedly 30 Vp-p would be sufficient to drive everything very well.


----------



## purplesun

My one & only 11.11 earbud is likely to be 1 of these 3:
1. Hifiman ES100 ($36 on Ali)
2. Moondrop VX Pro ($56 on Ali)
3. 1More EO320 (about $15-$16 on taobao)

I like mids, treble with some bass (tight, rather than wooly).
Some warmth but not too dark/murky (More RX1 than Monk+).
Reasonably open staging, but not a priority.
Playing from modestly powered sources.

Any input about which I should like the most?
I am leaning towards EO320 for now for being the cheapest.@haiku, @wilber, what say you all?


----------



## vapman

HPM-62 number 2 looks much nicer! KZ cable and proper heatshrink.




Sorry my photos are miserable,


----------



## music4mhell

Any1 got interest in new HE150 and colrado earbud ? Penon listed these earbuds !


----------



## golov17

In USA


----------



## mochill

Got the shanglang m1 for 98 dollars if you want to know where pm me


----------



## golov17

mochill said:


> Got the shanglang m1 for 98 dollars if you want to know where pm me


Shanling?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Still wondering whether I should pull the trigger on Shozy Stardust. I fear it is too similar to Cygnus or some of my other buds.


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> Still wondering whether I should pull the trigger on Shozy Stardust. I fear it is too similar to Cygnus or some of my other buds.




This is why I'm not getting one...


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> tayyab pirzada said:
> 
> 
> > Still wondering whether I should pull the trigger on Shozy Stardust. I fear it is too similar to Cygnus or some of my other buds.
> ...


 
 Hmmmmm


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> Hmmmmm




Also cause i want a Cypherus bud more!


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Hmmmmm
> ...


 
 if you buy Qfred, i will buy next day  Lol !


----------



## mochill

tayyab pirzada said:


> Still wondering whether I should pull the trigger on Shozy Stardust. I fear it is too similar to Cygnus or some of my other buds.


The stardust is on a different level, I have both


----------



## music4mhell

mochill said:


> tayyab pirzada said:
> 
> 
> > Still wondering whether I should pull the trigger on Shozy Stardust. I fear it is too similar to Cygnus or some of my other buds.
> ...


 
 I agree too


----------



## vapman

Blows my mind how good Sony HPM-62 is. I mean why even pay for high end buds anymore? This cable I am using is nicer than the mic cable I used on the first one. Add Hiegi foams and you have one damn good earbud. Quite like a Cygnus with better extension on both ends...
  
 I think the only thing I plan to buy on 11.11 is more KZ brand wire...


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Blows my mind how good Sony HPM-62 is. I mean why even pay for high end buds anymore? This cable I am using is nicer than the mic cable I used on the first one. Add Hiegi foams and you have one damn good earbud. Quite like a Cygnus with better extension on both ends...
> 
> I think the only thing I plan to buy on 11.11 is more KZ brand wire...


go to HPM64/red or silver  
http://s.aliexpress.com/7ZrQr6RZ


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> go to HPM64/red or silver
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 thank you golov!!!!
 but i found a cheaper one in my country!
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/GENUINE-SONY-ERICSSON-HPM-64-STEREO-HANDSFREE-/201670965652?hash=item2ef486b994:g:lYYAAOSwzaJX3YVg


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > Blows my mind how good Sony HPM-62 is. I mean why even pay for high end buds anymore? This cable I am using is nicer than the mic cable I used on the first one. Add Hiegi foams and you have one damn good earbud. Quite like a Cygnus with better extension on both ends...
> ...


 
 how is the sound ?


----------



## golov17

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272259851841


----------



## Trzystatrzy

Anybody can compare Shozy Cygnus with Asura 2.0?


----------



## vapman

trzystatrzy said:


> Anybody can compare Shozy Cygnus with Asura 2.0?


 

 cygnus is smoother and more rolled off treble, most energetic, but better mids. asura 2.0 has better treble extension and is a little more raw sounding. A little better on bass depth too.
  
  
 Guys, I have done a direct comparison of about a dozen different buds on the same equipment and song. A very poorly recorded one which is mastered particularly badly, and gear which is not very clear and detailed makes it sound very muddy. I'm surprised by what comes out on my top 10 for clarity and overall balance.
  

TY Hi-Z 650
Qian39 (60 ohm recable + cotton added)
Shozy Cygnus
Sony E838
Red De'Mun
VE Asura 2.0
Edimun V3
VE Monk Plus
Sony HPM 62
Qian39 (stock)


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> trzystatrzy said:
> 
> 
> > Anybody can compare Shozy Cygnus with Asura 2.0?
> ...


 
 No Mojito at all ? or other TY earbuds ?


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> No Mojito at all ? or other TY earbuds ?


 
 I hate my TY 32, my old Seahf 400 died. I sold my Mojito a long time ago. it probably would have done well but I avoid dual driver units....
  
 gave one TY 32 to my girlfriend and she hates it too


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > No Mojito at all ? or other TY earbuds ?
> ...


 
 Lol, you and ur GF have same taste in music then  lucky You !


----------



## purplesun

> Originally Posted by *vapman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> gave one TY 32 to my girlfriend and she hates it too


 
  
 Not surprising. It's obvious that she must also have highly accentuated bass curves that you like very much.


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> Not surprising. It's obvious that she must also have highly accentuated bass curves that you like very much.


----------



## danimoca

@ClieOS
  
 I might actually buy the K's 500 ohm's! Just one thing, is the soundstage decent? You say on your impressions they are almost "headphone like". What do you mean by that?
  
 Don't want to spend so much on these and risk being disappointed 
  
 BTW, what's the difference between the Versions 1 and 2?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## luedriver

one earbud leaves and another earbud arrives...
  
 sent my cygnus back to penon, $14 AUD, come back home to find the ty hi-z hp-650 waiting for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 didn't even take my shoes off opened the package and saw the same special box, didn't expect it, but maybe I was one of the first 50 worldwide to buy it,
  
 I immediately plugged them into my iphone 6s, and was amazed that they were actually pretty loud...
  
 ...only to find out that my iphone was on full volume with normal jack and lowered volume with my apple earpods 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 still at 10/16 volume they can power these easily 
  
 I tried them with my pc + amp and saw they had almost a like full headphone sound, I heard one of my favourite pink floyd songs on vinyl, via my old kenwood amp and still couldn't turn the volume more than the 9 o'clock position
  
 maybe they will improve with burn-in, but my mx170's were a bit more revealing than these although they are much more thin sounding, I don't mean this as a negative, but maybe the hp650's are more forgiving with tracks with less sound quality, but not too much like the apple earpods, which smooths out even the poorest of mp3's
  
 but still this is only with a few hours of use and on some recordings of live music, it almost feels like you are there, 
  
 I don't want to drag this on too long, but something has to be said when you can listen to music you rather not listen to and still not hate it because the earphones you're listening with sound that good


----------



## ClieOS

danimoca said:


> @ClieOS
> 
> 
> I might actually buy the K's 500 ohm's! Just one thing, is the soundstage decent? You say on your impressions they are almost "headphone like". What do you mean by that?
> ...




It means it has soundstage more like full sized headphone instead of a small earbud.

Version 1 vs. 2 has been explained before, please search my older post in this thread.


----------



## luedriver

luedriver said:


> maybe they will improve with burn-in, but my mx170's were a bit more revealing than these although they are much more thin sounding, I don't mean this as a negative, but maybe the hp650's are more forgiving with tracks with less sound quality, but not too much like the apple earpods, which smooths out even the poorest of mp3's


 
  
  
 quoting my own post, because I feel, I am not explaining myself properly,
  
 I read a lot of forum post, articles etc, and it gets pretty tiring real quick of so much reading so I use online text to speech like bing translator or ttsreader and yesterday when I used my mx170, the sound of the voice sounded bad, like a robot speaking, but with the hp-650 I don't get that, it sounds better
  
 overall almost everything I hear sound better,
  
 but I am guessing the soundstage will improve even more, the more I use them,  as many have said with other ty hi-z earbuds


----------



## vapman

luedriver said:


> quoting my own post, because I feel, I am not explaining myself properly,
> 
> I read a lot of forum post, articles etc, and it gets pretty tiring real quick of so much reading so I use online text to speech like bing translator or ttsreader and yesterday when I used my mx170, the sound of the voice sounded bad, like a robot speaking, but with the hp-650 I don't get that, it sounds better
> 
> ...


 

 Sounds like my thoughts when I got mine..... seems like you are a fan already. Enjoy em, enjoy being one of the first 50 people to have a set! the earbud world is smaller than we think sometimes....


----------



## music4mhell

Received 2 more RX-1 from Penon


----------



## Nachash

golov17 said:


> go to HPM64/red or silver
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Argh, now I want this and I don't know why


----------



## fairx

I bought a new phone this week. Redmi note 3 pro. The dac sucks big time lol. Too dull for my taste and not much separation nor resolving. But very good paired with ty hi-z 32 and she3800. Cheap bud for cheap phone. Win win


----------



## music4mhell

fairx said:


> I bought a new phone this week. Redmi note 3 pro. The dac sucks big time lol. Too dull for my taste and not much separation nor resolving. But very good paired with ty hi-z 32 and she3800. Cheap bud for cheap phone. Win win


 
 I am about to buy Redmi 3s Prime or Note 3 to pair with my Chord Mojo. I will put a 128 GB card in it !


----------



## fairx

Yes I bought this phone to pair easily with external dac. Exactly.


----------



## golov17

nachash said:


> Argh, now I want this and I don't know why


 it's a trap!


----------



## Danneq

nachash said:


> Argh, now I want this and I don't know why


 
  
 Haha! That sounds like my reaction here all the time!


----------



## Saoshyant

Honestly, I think after my Rose arrives, I'm done with getting new earbuds until maybe the new Blox so I can finally try one out. Unless a great bassy earbud rears it's boomy head. I have more than I can justify keeping, and I think I'm in a good place as far as sources with an LG V10, Hifiman Supermini, as well as my Mojo & Encore mDSD. I also have a Shanling M1 on the way. I'm sure I'll change my mind soon enough, but I might be done for now.


----------



## music4mhell

saoshyant said:


> Honestly, I think after my Rose arrives, I'm done with getting new earbuds until maybe the new Blox so I can finally try one out. Unless a great bassy earbud rears it's boomy head. I have more than I can justify keeping, and I think I'm in a good place as far as sources with an LG V10, Hifiman Supermini, as well as my Mojo & Encore mDSD. I also have a Shanling M1 on the way. I'm sure I'll change my mind soon enough, but I might be done for now.


 
 Did you check the new Shozy Stardust  It's very very good .. lol.. You shouldn't miss it !


----------



## Saoshyant

I'm debating that one as I really do like the Cygnus, and essentially an improved version of it with better bass might be something wonderful.  Then again, I haven't actually checked 11.11 prices on earbuds, so I should probably not pass up the sale.


----------



## JASru

I would really like to see Rose''s budget earbud. I mean 64.
 I got their entry level IEM a few days ago and for its price it is more than decent.
 They are surely capable making good-sounding product without adding a price tag of several hundred bucks.


----------



## Nachash

Quote:


golov17 said:


> it's a trap!


 
 Are they good anyway? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 edit. after two entire days of burn-in the naked TY32 still sounds terrible, it's tolerable with the Monk donuts. Not my favorite earbud though


----------



## AkashS04

Got Monk+ delivered yesterday. Did not listen to them a lot as of now and still listening but initial expression is that they are just like any other Earbuds. Sound is absolute Flat and hardly any Bass is present. As far as Warmness is concerned, that is also missing. So as of now looks normal earbuds but I am hoping that with 25-30 Hours play, sound might change and becomes better. Let's see. However, with PowerAmp Andrpid Player, they are sounding quite ok but PowerAmp can make any crap earbud also sound well I believe. With Nano 7th Gen, Monk+ is like 10 cents earbuds. So either the problem of poor sound chip is so big with Nano 7th Gen that even the world's best earbud or earphones will not make any difference in sound, or Monk+ is Yet Another Earbuds on the street.


----------



## Saoshyant

I suspect the issue is earbuds are not the route to go if you're after bass. While the bass can be decent, other types will perform better in this respect.


----------



## Danneq

akashs04 said:


> Got Monk+ delivered yesterday. Did not listen to them a lot as of now and still listening but initial expression is that they are just like any other Earbuds. Sound is absolute Flat and hardly any Bass is present. As far as Warmness is concerned, that is also missing. So as of now looks normal earbuds but I am hoping that with 25-30 Hours play, sound might change and becomes better. Let's see. However, with PowerAmp Andrpid Player, they are sounding quite ok but PowerAmp can make any crap earbud also sound well I believe. With Nano 7th Gen, Monk+ is like 10 cents earbuds. So either the problem of poor sound chip is so big with Nano 7th Gen that even the world's best earbud or earphones will not make any difference in sound, or Monk+ is Yet Another Earbuds on the street.


 


 I think your problem is the iPod. I own a bunch of older MP3 player and Monk+ sounds quite good with all of them (even if the synergy between the Monk+ and the DAPs can differ). If I use my Cayin C5 amp the Monk+ scale up quite a bit with better instrument separation and bass.

 Also, I think Monk+ is quite neutral and that is a good point for me. At first I thought it sounded a bit "dull" but then I started to appreciate it more and now I like it a lot. Something like TY HiZ HP32 may be more exciting but I actually think that Monk+ is more rewarding in the long run...

 How about buying a cheap Chinese DAP that has gotten good reviews? Something like FiiO M3 or Xduoo X2 should be better than iPod Nano.

 It's like you are looking for a good full HD TV but insist on using a VHS player with it...


----------



## AkashS04

Other DAPs are very heavy and expensive also. Buying them without listening is not worth at all. In that case, I would prefer to buy iPod Nano 1st Gen. I want a music player which has Wolfson WM8975G Chip and it should be light weight and small and compact. I would prefer it to be like iPod Nano7 in terms of weight and size but even if it is like any other Nano Gen, I am fine. But I guess all DAPs are very heavy that you cannot carry them without realising that you have something else also in you pocket.


----------



## Saoshyant

Hifiman Supermini is quite light, & supposedly can drive planars.


----------



## JASru

Xduoo X2 ain't heavy or expensive. Especially if you get one on 11.11.
 I can't say it is best bag for the buck, but it certainly is remarkable given the output power. I owned it at some point.
 M3 is not really worth it imho.
 Try reading about Benjie S5. Some people say it is pretty ok for codec and costs around 30 bucks.


----------



## Danneq

You can get a FiiO M3 for around $60 and a Xduoo X2 for around $40. If you go up to $100 you can get a Xduoo X3. You can rockbox the X3 and the EQ on Rockbox is second to none (in my opinion).

 Also, I'm selling a Kenwood Mediakeg
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, which uses a Wolfson chip and sounds really really good.  Only Mp3, though, unlike the FiiO and Xduoo DAPs.

 Edit: the Mediakeg is around the same size as the iPod but weights only around 60 grams...


----------



## AkashS04

I just noticed that Xdoo uses Cirrus Logic Sound Chip. This is an issue. This is worst ever Sound Chip any player can have. The same is now in used in all Apple Products and Nano 7th Gen also using this anyway. I need Wolfson Chip which is 1000000 times better than Cirrus Logic. Do you know any very compact Music Player or DAP which uses Wolsfon chip and not very expensive also.


----------



## JASru

akashs04 said:


> I just noticed that Xdoo uses Cirrus Logic Sound Chip. This is an issue. This is worst ever Sound Chip any player can have. The same is now in used in all Apple Products and Nano 7th Gen also using this anyway. I need Wolfson Chip which is 1000000 times better than Cirrus Logic. Do you know any very compact Music Player or DAP which uses Wolsfon chip and not very expensive also.


 
  
 Ihifi 770C NEW may be your case. It can be Rockboxed, but it is kinda tricky process for the latest revision.
  
 edit: it is based on Wolfson 8740


----------



## AkashS04

Xdoo uses Cirrus Logic chip and my Nano 7th Gen is using the same so it will be same thing.


----------



## JASru

akashs04 said:


> Xdoo uses Cirrus Logic chip and my Nano 7th Gen is using the same so it will be same thing.


 
 Judging the DAP by its chips ain't gonna make you any good. Chip alone isn't defining sound. There is way too many factors.


----------



## Nachash

akashs04 said:


> Xdoo uses Cirrus Logic chip and my Nano 7th Gen is using the same so it will be same thing.


 
 Not really...


----------



## AkashS04

What is Rockbox? Looks like some Firmware but how it will make any difference at all. Sound quality depends on Sound Chip. It is like having 386 or 486 Processor and installing new software and max possible RAM and hoping that it will beat Intel i7 Processor with min required RAM.
  
 If it make any difference, I can try to do R&D with my Nano 7th Gen. At max it will be not usable (I know Rockbox does not have Nano 7th Gen version but I can try).


----------



## AkashS04

I guess so. I heard Wolfson Chip and they are best it seems. This is also true that I did not hear any other Chip except Cirrus Logic.I am also planning to install Wlfson Chip on Nano 7th gen myself.


----------



## Danneq

Rockbox allows you to tweak the EQ much better than most stock EQ. For instance: I've got a Cowon X5. The old Cowons use badly implemented(?) Wolfson DACs that causes a massive bass roll-off below 80Hz. Stock firmware on Cowon X5 has got the first version of the BBE software but it does not compensate for the bass roll off.
 With Rockbox I can EQ from 20Hz and get very good sub bass.


----------



## AkashS04

If only Eq setting which can be changed, then it might be somehow useful for Nano 1st Gen but I doubt for Nano 7th Gen. PowerAmp also provide very good EQ options. Looks no current Music Players uses Wolfson anymore. If they use, either they are bulky and not slim and light weight like Nano. Or the Chip Model used is not the one which is used in Nano 1st gen.


----------



## haiku

akashs04 said:


> Got Monk+ delivered yesterday. Did not listen to them a lot as of now and still listening but initial expression is that they are just like any other Earbuds. Sound is absolute Flat and hardly any Bass is present. As far as Warmness is concerned, that is also missing. So as of now looks normal earbuds but I am hoping that with 25-30 Hours play, sound might change and becomes better. Let's see. However, with PowerAmp Andrpid Player, they are sounding quite ok but PowerAmp can make any crap earbud also sound well I believe. With Nano 7th Gen, Monk+ is like 10 cents earbuds. So either the problem of poor sound chip is so big with Nano 7th Gen that even the world's best earbud or earphones will not make any difference in sound, or Monk+ is Yet Another Earbuds on the street.


 

 Monk+ is anything but shy of bass. I´m no fan of it, but when it has something, it´s good bass. Yours must be faulty.
 Also, better you listen to some decent daps yourself, instead of believing everything you hear. Sabre, Cirrus and AK are some of the best manufacturers when it comes to totl chips atm. Listen to an AK70 if you have the chance. Might be a life changing experience when you come from a Nano.....


----------



## Fabi

danneq said:


> Rockbox allows you to tweak the EQ much better than most stock EQ. For instance: I've got a Cowon X5. The old Cowons use badly implemented(?) Wolfson DACs that causes a massive bass roll-off below 80Hz. Stock firmware on Cowon X5 has got the first version of the BBE software but it does not compensate for the bass roll off.
> 
> With Rockbox I can EQ from 20Hz and get very good sub bass.



Sorry for OT. 
I still have a Cowon X5 from 2007, never rockboxed it. Does RB change noticeably the sound without settings already or just an add of more settings? Thanks


----------



## Nachash

fabi said:


> Sorry for OT.
> I still have a Cowon X5 from 2007, never rockboxed it. Does RB change noticeably the sound without settings already or just an add of more settings? Thanks


 
 My Cowon d2 rockboxed became more "clear", which is not always a good thing. I had to revert though because the whole FW was buggy and I couldn't stand it


----------



## AkashS04

If this is faulty, then I will need to use it anyway because you cannot return to AliExpress. And I don't think I will be able to buy another one as yesterday only I am told that stop buying Earbuds anymore.  With Monk+, I also ordered Vrme Earbuds. Hope they arr good. 
  
 Also, AK70 is $600 so with this kind of price difference, they MUST sound good actually but I doubt because they also use Cirrus Logic Chip. When you listen to Cirrus Logic Chip (Nano 5th Gen onwards, iPhone 3rd Gen onwards and all recent Apple productsGen onwards has same), it sounds precise, crisp, but lacks 3D image and has an electronic haze to the sound. At first, this might sound like an improvement (crisp, detailed), but when listening more carefully and for longer times, it becomes fatiguing after a while. So I doubt  that AK70 will be actually better. It might be better i terms of more details and clarity but then fatigue if you listen to long time.


----------



## golov17

https://investor.cirrus.com/news-and-events/media-center/news-details/2014/Cirrus-Logic-Completes-Acquisition-of-Wolfson-Microelectronics/default.aspx


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> https://investor.cirrus.com/news-and-events/media-center/news-details/2014/Cirrus-Logic-Completes-Acquisition-of-Wolfson-Microelectronics/default.aspx


 

 I hope those 3 people changed their email addresses, or they're doomed now...


----------



## Nachash

akashs04 said:


> If this is faulty, then I will need to use it anyway because you cannot return to AliExpress. And I don't think I will be able to buy another one as yesterday only I am told that stop buying Earbuds anymore.  With Monk+, I also ordered Vrme Earbuds. Hope they arr good.
> 
> Also, AK70 is $600 so with this kind of price difference, they MUST sound good actually but I doubt because they also use Cirrus Logic Chip. When you listen to Cirrus Logic Chip (Nano 5th Gen onwards, iPhone 3rd Gen onwards and all recent Apple productsGen onwards has same), it sounds precise, crisp, but lacks 3D image and has an electronic haze to the sound. At first, this might sound like an improvement (crisp, detailed), but when listening more carefully and for longer times, it becomes fatiguing after a while. So I doubt  that AK70 will be actually better. It might be better i terms of more details and clarity but then fatigue if you listen to long time.


 

 I don't know, I would like to see a blind test of yours


----------



## AkashS04

Yes. Cirrus Logic has acquired Wolfson but it seems they stopped using their patented Chip. Looks they bought it for their ready to use facilities and set-up rather than using the Chip design.


----------



## haiku

akashs04 said:


> If this is faulty, then I will need to use it anyway because you cannot return to AliExpress. And I don't think I will be able to buy another one as yesterday only I am told that stop buying Earbuds anymore.  With Monk+, I also ordered Vrme Earbuds. Hope they arr good.
> 
> Also, AK70 is $600 so with this kind of price difference, they MUST sound good actually but I doubt because they also use Cirrus Logic Chip. When you listen to Cirrus Logic Chip (Nano 5th Gen onwards, iPhone 3rd Gen onwards and all recent Apple productsGen onwards has same), it sounds precise, crisp, but lacks 3D image and has an electronic haze to the sound. At first, this might sound like an improvement (crisp, detailed), but when listening more carefully and for longer times, it becomes fatiguing after a while. So I doubt  that AK70 will be actually better. It might be better i terms of more details and clarity but then fatigue if you listen to long time.


 

 It´s all about the implementation. There´s more to a great sounding dap than just the chip itself. By the way, did you listen to anything else than Apple gadgets? Might be the time to broaden your horizon a bit. Just an idea.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> I hope those 3 people changed their email addresses, or they're doomed now...


----------



## audio123

the most insane massdrop for hd6xx has ended. price of mojito can get u a hd6xx!


----------



## JASru

audio123 said:


> the most insane massdrop for hd6xx has ended. price of mojito can get u a hd6xx!


 
 No delivery to Russia killed the interest for me. 
 The price of mailforward is almost the price difference.

 The whole fact that Massdrop ain't  shipping to Russia is painfull though. So many good listings there.


----------



## Nachash

The customs killed it for me
  
 I wish that the HD650 would be priced lower now...


----------



## JASru

deleted


----------



## AkashS04

Did not listen to any other one so far. Except my Samsung Galaxy S6 Eadge. Not a bad idea to try but difficult to actually do because for that, 1st I need to buy the Music Player and then only I can try as listening to 10-20 min on some showroom might net help. 2nd, I have not found any other Music Player which is portable like Nano. All are big and bulky so I don't like them at all. Having different Sound Chip which I never listened to is another issue.


----------



## music4mhell

audio123 said:


> the most insane massdrop for hd6xx has ended. price of mojito can get u a hd6xx!


i was not able to buy..always got payment gateway error..

better luck next time..


----------



## golov17

akashs04 said:


> Did not listen to any other one so far. Except my Samsung Galaxy S6 Eadge. Not a bad idea to try but difficult to actually do because for that, 1st I need to buy the Music Player and then only I can try as listening to 10-20 min on some showroom might net help. 2nd, I have not found any other Music Player which is portable like Nano. All are big and bulky so I don't like them at all. Having different Sound Chip which I never listened to is another issue.


Hidizs ap60, Shanling m1 very small daps with AKM dacs inside.. Try them


----------



## AkashS04

Thanks. Will see if there is any way to try.


----------



## AkashS04

But it seems none of them uses Wolfson Chip. Are they good in that case?


----------



## ballog

akashs04 said:


> I guess so. I heard Wolfson Chip and they are best it seems. This is also true that I did not hear any other Chip except Cirrus Logic.I am also planning to install Wlfson Chip on Nano 7th gen myself.



What! Am I missing something.


----------



## AkashS04

Pls don't mind but for me Nano 1st Gen is Benchmark. Anything has to be much much better than that. Most of the Music players, even after having Wolfson Chip, is not in competition with Nano 1G because of their size and weight.


----------



## AkashS04

Just that there is no Bass I found in Monk+ also so it seems the issue might be with Nano 7th Gen. So I am suggested few other DAPs but AK70 also has same chip which Nano 7th Gen us having so I don't see there will be an iota of difference in sound quality. Nano 1st Gen is having great Warm, Bassy and 3D sound while any Music Player or DAP with Cirrus Logic Chip is completely missing that.


----------



## vapman

Yes , I`m talking about collecting more earbuds ...


----------



## boblauer

akashs04 said:


> Other DAPs are very heavy and expensive also. Buying them without listening is not worth at all. In that case, I would prefer to buy iPod Nano 1st Gen. I want a music player which has Wolfson WM8975G Chip and it should be light weight and small and compact. I would prefer it to be like iPod Nano7 in terms of weight and size but even if it is like any other Nano Gen, I am fine. But I guess all DAPs are very heavy that you cannot carry them without realising that you have something else also in you pocket.


 
 Weeks ago suggested Plenue D, it's Wolfson chip based and small, not nano small but small. You can get them for @$200 just about everywhere and maybe someone in NYC has one you could listen to if you asked. That's about as close as I can think of to your requirements. 
  
 In regards to the earbuds, if you are looking for gobs of base, you should ask Vapman. I believe it was suggested to try the Qian 39's for a cheap base oriented bud. Sorry to say but big base is not an earbud quality and the ones that do it very well are pricey, maybe an IEM would work better? 
  
 Just read the rest of the posts and got to say you are missing the point. A DAC chip does not make the sole signal signature, it's about the rest of the implementation as well. I am a fan of Burr Brown chips and I've heard some very good implementations and others that suck ass same chip. As far as your faulty MP, I have several Mass drop reds unused other than a quick listen. PM me your address and I'll mail you one, if you like it better than yours mail  yours back to me and I'll trade you. If you still don't like them just mail the red back. Simple solution. The DAC on the other hand it all on you, try attending some meets to listen to a lot of gear and then decide.


----------



## Nachash

akashs04 said:


> Just that there is no Bass I found in Monk+ also so it seems the issue might be with Nano 7th Gen. So I am suggested few other DAPs but AK70 also has same chip which Nano 7th Gen us having so I don't see there will be an iota of difference in sound quality. Nano 1st Gen is having great Warm, Bassy and 3D sound while any Music Player or DAP with Cirrus Logic Chip is completely missing that.


 

 Put the foams around the Monk and you'll get your bass. Also which kind of music are you listening?


----------



## kartik7405

akashs04 said:


> Pls don't mind but for me Nano 1st Gen is Benchmark. Anything has to be much much better than that. Most of the Music players, even after having Wolfson Chip, is not in competition with Nano 1G because of their size and weight.


 
 if you really want wolfson only get a Astell & Kern Jr.


----------



## ballog

audio123 said:


> the most insane massdrop for hd6xx has ended. price of mojito can get u a hd6xx!



Can anyone here give an idea which totl earbud (Shozy, K's, etc) most ressemble Senn HD650. I'm now close to having spent $200 on cheap and mid-range earbuds. A few have gone bad - one RX1, one TY HiZ 32, 2 original Monks.(drivers starting to rattle). Was eyeing either Shozy BK or K's 500. Since earbud durability now might be an issue seems better to spend $200 on the Senn - anyway I was looking for an earbud which will be closest to an open can in signature. On the other hand its much easier for me to buy earbuds even expensive ones cause wifey think they are all cheapish. Can't really decide - need help.


----------



## vapman

ballog said:


> Can anyone here give an idea which totl earbud (Shozy, K's, etc) most ressemble Senn HD650. I'm now close to having spent $200 on cheap and mid-range earbuds. A few have gone bad - one RX1, one TY HiZ 32, 2 original Monks.(drivers starting to rattle). Was eyeing either Shozy BK or K's 500. Since earbud durability now might be an issue seems better to spend $200 on the Senn - anyway I was looking for an earbud which will be closest to an open can in signature. On the other hand its much easier for me to buy earbuds even expensive ones cause wifey think they are all cheapish. Can't really decide - need help.


 
 You ever heard the Zen 2?


----------



## Nachash

ballog said:


> Can anyone here give an idea which totl earbud (Shozy, K's, etc) most ressemble Senn HD650. I'm now close to having spent $200 on cheap and mid-range earbuds. A few have gone bad - one RX1, one TY HiZ 32, 2 original Monks.(drivers starting to rattle). Was eyeing either Shozy BK or K's 500. Since earbud durability now might be an issue seems better to spend $200 on the Senn - anyway I was looking for an earbud which will be closest to an open can in signature. On the other hand its much easier for me to buy earbuds even expensive ones cause wifey think they are all cheapish. Can't really decide - need help.


 
 And you forgot about the $60 pads...
  
 I'm using my K701 only a few times a week because those pads are 60€ shipped for me


----------



## AkashS04

Why I wanted huge, Thumping, Rumbling and Booming Bass with Lava Hot Warmness because there is lots of Clarity in nano 7G but no Warmness and Bass at all. I will see if I can try Quin as well. 
  
 Monk+ Provided Ear covers made it slightly better in terms of Bass but still no change if I listen to iPod Nano. I usually like to listen to Indian Music, R&Bs, and Zazz and Pop as well.


----------



## AkashS04

Also, before ordering Monk+, I asked him if Quin 39 is good or Monk+ but he did not reply. But Monk+ was also suggested by him only long back which turned out to be flat earbuds. Not sure if Quin 39 will be any good.


----------



## Nachash

Akash you need an headphone, look for a good closed one with lots of thundering bass and all that


----------



## ballog

vapman said:


> You ever heard the Zen 2?



No bro. But heard that there may not be enough bass. Btw I ordered the Qian39 on your recommendation - still waiting for them though. What's your take on the Zen 2? I have ATH M50 but have grown tired of the recessed mids and closed back sound. Want to step up my gear for more classical, soundtrack and 50s-60s jazz music (bass and sub bass is nice specially for orchestral music).


----------



## JASru

As I heard Zen 2 is indeed inspired by Senn's HD series. Never listened one, though.


----------



## golov17

ballog said:


> Can anyone here give an idea which totl earbud (Shozy, K's, etc) most ressemble Senn HD650. I'm now close to having spent $200 on cheap and mid-range earbuds. A few have gone bad - one RX1, one TY HiZ 32, 2 original Monks.(drivers starting to rattle). Was eyeing either Shozy BK or K's 500. Since earbud durability now might be an issue seems better to spend $200 on the Senn - anyway I was looking for an earbud which will be closest to an open can in signature. On the other hand its much easier for me to buy earbuds even expensive ones cause wifey think they are all cheapish. Can't really decide - need help.


Zen2.0


----------



## ballog

jasru said:


> As I heard Zen 2 is indeed inspired by Senn's HD series. Never listened one, though.



Interesting. Would appreciate some more feedback.


----------



## vapman

ballog said:


> No bro. But heard that there may not be enough bass. Btw I ordered the Qian39 on your recommendation - still waiting for them though. What's your take on the Zen 2? I have ATH M50 but have grown tired of the recessed mids and closed back sound. Want to step up my gear for more classical, soundtrack and 50s-60s jazz music (bass and sub bass is nice specially for orchestral music).


 

 HD 650 isn't a very bassy headphone though. It's got mids all day though, both are true of zen 2 as well... i don't use it because not enough bass for me.


----------



## ballog

golov17 said:


> Zen2.0



Zen 2 ($140) vs HD6XX (apprx $240) - which do you think is a better investment (longevity, value for money - all other factors aside)?


----------



## Raketen

nvm


----------



## music4mhell

ballog said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > Zen2.0
> ...


HD6XX

i have both...


----------



## golov17

ballog said:


> Zen 2 ($140) vs HD6XX (apprx $240) - which do you think is a better investment (longevity, value for money - all other factors aside)?


my vote for earbuds. Always.


----------



## vapman

i'd rather have TY 650 than either of those.....


----------



## ballog

vapman said:


> i'd rather have TY 650 than either of those.....



Does the TY 650 also have the full-size open can sound quality (like Zen 2)? What about Shozy BK and K's 500 bro?


----------



## haiku

vapman said:


> i'd rather have TY 650 than either of those.....


 

 After spending quite some time with KZ iems, which mostly sounded awesome, but have a strange way to deal with my 24/192 Van Halen albums, I´ve returned to earbuds, because I´ve really had enough of all the fiddle with always having to find the right seal. Then I fell in love with my EO320 and haven´t looked back since.


----------



## JASru

I plan buying VX Pro on 11.11. Are there anyone else who wanted it? Wanna find ppl to share the impressions when it arrives.


----------



## Nachash

Me, maybe...
 I'm torn between the VX Pro, the TY650 or something cheaper just for the sake of having a earbud with a mic (EO320)


----------



## AkashS04

I don't prefer to have Headphone. Don't like that big thing over my ear and head also.


----------



## Ira Delphic

nachash said:


> Me, maybe...
> I'm torn between the VX Pro, the TY650 or something cheaper just for the sake of having a earbud with a mic (EO320)


 
  
 I think we need some more opinions on the EO320. But for $20 not a big risk.


----------



## ProspektFi

I'm really curious to read impressions on the **** PT15. I only recently discovered these earbuds with detachable cable... On Aliexpress the price is less than 19$ with silver cable on the 11.11, excluding coupons. You think it might be a good deal?


----------



## ballog

nachash said:


> Me, maybe...
> I'm torn between the VX Pro, the TY650 or something cheaper just for the sake of having a earbud with a mic (EO320)



I have a Qian39, a SeaHf 150 Ohm and a replacement RX1 coming in the next weeks. I wonder how the SeaHF will sound - haven't read of SeaHf in this thread lately.


----------



## vapman

ira delphic said:


> I think we need some more opinions on the EO320. But for $20 not a big risk.


 

 agreed! i'm waiting for more to pull the trigger (or not),
  
  


ballog said:


> Does the TY 650 also have the full-size open can sound quality (like Zen 2)? What about Shozy BK and K's 500 bro?


 

 Never heard and probably never will hear BK or K's 500!
 TY 650 absolutely has full size competitive soundstage and open sound, truly out of head at times, without any EQ gimmicks.
  
 i hear K's 500 people complain about clicking noises when you move around, and that it's a treblehead bud.... not for me if so.


----------



## Nachash

prospektfi said:


> I'm really curious to read impressions on the **** PT15. I only recently discovered these earbuds with detachable cable... On Aliexpress the price is less than 19$ with silver cable on the 11.11, excluding coupons. You think it might be a good deal?


 

 There was a headfi discount a week ago, it was like $14 and $16 for the silver one if I remember correctly. Mine is still on the way...


frederick wang said:


> **** PT15 arrived. Package is, well, cheap looking, silver cable looks/feels quite nice.
> I plug it to my cellphone immediately, and the sound is very very very satisfactory, (I'm tempted to say, beautiful), vocal and instruments alike.
> I have high expectations for these after proper burning-in.
> And to those who haven't bought them yet, take your wallet out, now.


 
  


vapman said:


> TY 650 absolutely has full size competitive soundstage and open sound, truly out of head at times, without any EQ gimmicks.


 
 Is there something more revealing in terms of microdetails and instrument separation in your collection?


----------



## haiku

vapman said:


> agreed! i'm waiting for more to pull the trigger (or not),
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I think you should have heard the K´s just once in your life. Though it´s not my favourite anymore, I still think it´s something very special.


----------



## vapman

haiku said:


> I think you should have heard the K´s just once in your life. Though it´s not my favourite anymore, I still think it´s something very special.


 
 Would love to hear them, absolutely would if i had the chance, but dont want to spend so much $ on it :[


----------



## ballog

vapman said:


> agreed! i'm waiting for more to pull the trigger (or not),
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I wonder about all those chinese made earbud's drivers durability. I have an 11 year old Sony bud still going strong - it has been the daily used bud for my wife since I starting using Blox M2c some years back. It has been recabled by me some three to four time and its a low profile and very comfortable bud (forgot the model name - it was on the original cable).


----------



## vapman

nachash said:


> There was a headfi discount a week ago, it was like $14 and $16 for the silver one if I remember correctly. Mine is still on the way...
> 
> Is there something more revealing in terms of microdetails and instrument separation in your collection?


 

 The Mojito, probably, but I don't have it anymore. I don't like dual driver sound and I don't know why exactly.
  
 Quote:
 Originally Posted by ballog View Post

 I wonder about all those chinese made earbud's drivers durability. I have an 11 year old Sony bud still going strong - it has been the daily used bud for my wife since I starting using Blox M2c some years back. It has been recabled by me some three to four time and its a low profile and very comfortable bud (forgot the model name - it was on the original cable).
  
  
 FWIW I've never killed any VE product even with my crazy amping and bass boosting. Lee has said the amount of bass boost I do does permanent damage to my earbuds but I don't hear anything wrong 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But really out of all the earbuds I've ever had, only Hifiman ES100 and Seahf 400 went bad.


----------



## ballog

vapman said:


> The Mojito, probably, but I don't have it anymore. I don't like dual driver sound and I don't know why exactly.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...



You're right the Monk Plus seems rock solid and sound very coherent under heavy amping and on very low frequency tone generator test. I pushing them hard right now amped while listening to the stunning Basil Poledouris Conan soundtrack.


----------



## Tomasz2D

nachash said:


> There was a headfi discount a week ago, it was like $14 and $16 for the silver one if I remember correctly. Mine is still on the way...


 
  
 Pre-orders for **** PT15 were $8 without cable, $14 black/blue/green cable and $19.9 with silver cable.


----------



## mochill

I have mojito if interested pm me


----------



## Ira Delphic

tomasz2d said:


> nachash said:
> 
> 
> > There was a headfi discount a week ago, it was like $14 and $16 for the silver one if I remember correctly. Mine is still on the way...
> ...


 
  
 At least 3 of us paid $29 for the **** PT15 black cable at that time (from _that_ seller not allowed to mention), so keep rubbing it in lol!


----------



## springbay

The Rose Mojito I bought from @Danneq arrived today. Listening to Keith Richards Köln right now and I totally understand what the fuzz is all about. It's like every single note sound important, and I'm kind of rediscovering the recording.
 These will be my stay wide awake buds, while the RX-1 will be my go to sleep buds.


----------



## Danneq

fabi said:


> Sorry for OT.
> I still have a Cowon X5 from 2007, never rockboxed it. Does RB change noticeably the sound without settings already or just an add of more settings? Thanks


 

 To me BBE has always sounded a bit artificial. Same thing with BBE+. D2 is actually the Cowon that I have owned that has sounded the best with BBE. I used to own a S9 and I now own a X5 and a D2. X5 with original firmware always sounded a bit off to me. I decided to try Rockbox and then the sound fell into place. Everything sounded more organic and I could make bass sound like actual bass instead of Mach3Bass boomy and wooly bass.
 I never tried Rockbox on my D2 and since you can only install it on a SD card I decided against installing it. Somehow D2 sounds much better with the original firmware and BBE than X5 with original firmware and BBE does. But overall X5 with Rockbox beats D2.


----------



## Nachash

I remember following a guide to EQ the D2 back to flat, I'll look around for the link.
  
 BBE sounded great with my old RE2, I remember tweaking the EQ and those cheap iems sounded great with all those tweaks


----------



## Willber

purplesun said:


> My one & only 11.11 earbud is likely to be 1 of these 3:
> 1. Hifiman ES100 ($36 on Ali)
> 2. Moondrop VX Pro ($56 on Ali)
> 3. 1More EO320 (about $15-$16 on taobao)
> ...


 

 Of the buds you mentioned I have only the EO320, RX-1 and Monk+. If you like the clarity and detail of the RX-1 but would like more bass then I still recommend the EO320 (but make sure it's not the older EO303 which looks the same).


----------



## Violator

Is RX-1 upgrade over Monk +?


----------



## purplesun

willber said:


> Of the buds you mentioned I have only the EO320, RX-1 and Monk+. If you like the clarity and detail of the RX-1 but would like more bass then I still recommend the EO320 (but make sure it's not the older EO303 which looks the same).



Thanks. Yeah it will be 89rmb for the Android&IOS version, which I believe is the eo320. The Android-only version will be 69rmb. Plus another $1 or $2 for shipping. Too cheap to resist for something you and haiku rave about.


----------



## purplesun

violator said:


> Is RX-1 upgrade over Monk +?



Very different. RX1 focuses on mids, highs and clarity. While Monk plus has a darker sound but more balanced though out the spectrum.


----------



## Willber

purplesun said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Of the buds you mentioned I have only the EO320, RX-1 and Monk+. If you like the clarity and detail of the RX-1 but would like more bass then I still recommend the EO320 (but make sure it's not the older EO303 which looks the same).
> ...


 
 Yes, the Android/IOS one is the EO320.


----------



## Saoshyant

Any recommended sellers for EO320 with 11.11 discounts?


----------



## magitka27

ballog said:


> I have a Qian39, a SeaHf 150 Ohm and a replacement RX1 coming in the next weeks. I wonder how the SeaHF will sound - haven't read of SeaHf in this thread lately.


 
 If u buy the seahf  smart 1.0 with white cable (zen look-a-like) , it will sound far from warm bro, its cold with speedy but punchy sub bass, not to aggresive mid bass, extended treble and a little big on the soundstage , 
  


vapman said:


> cygnus is smoother and more rolled off treble, most energetic, but better mids. asura 2.0 has better treble extension and is a little more raw sounding. A little better on bass depth too.
> 
> 
> Guys, I have done a direct comparison of about a dozen different buds on the same equipment and song. A very poorly recorded one which is mastered particularly badly, and gear which is not very clear and detailed makes it sound very muddy. I'm surprised by what comes out on my top 10 for clarity and overall balance.
> ...


 
 The asura !!!!!! love it vapman thx for your recommendation, its a total upgrade!! but the bass in asura its not as big as in  my old seahf smart 1.0 150ohm, but detail retrieval and treble quality are no match for seahf 150ohm, the soundstage is slightly better in seahf but instrument placement and separation is better on the asura 2.0 

 but i need to worry about my wallet as its empty right now XD


----------



## purplesun

saoshyant said:


> Any recommended sellers for EO320 with 11.11 discounts?



If you can handle buying from taobao, it's a few dollars cheaper from some taobao sellers. But, with quite confusing models available, it's probably safer to be able to directly communicate with Ali sellers. I just checked, a few Ali sellers have already dropped their eo320 to around $22.


----------



## Saoshyant

I might put together a lump Taobao order at some point to try out some hard to get things


----------



## haiku

To all of you who think about purchasing the EO320
  
 It´s become obvious to me, why some might be underwhelmed with the EO320 at first listen. It´s not it´s aim to wow you with anything, it´s more about for you to be able to follow each musician with what he/she is doing, without losing the coherence of the presentation. This may be it´s biggest strength among the other competitors imo. Most earbuds wowed me pretty quickly, but then the "enjoyment curve" went south very fast. Another downside at first may also be that it needs a veeeeery long burn in period, in which it opens up more and more, while the sound gets smoother and more brilliant. So you have to be patient. If you can´t, don´t buy it.


----------



## jrazmar

springbay said:


> The Rose Mojito I bought from @Danneq arrived today. Listening to Keith Richards Köln right now and I totally understand what the fuzz is all about. It's like every single note sound important, and I'm kind of rediscovering the recording.
> These will be my stay wide awake buds, while the RX-1 will be my go to sleep buds.


 
  
@springbay if I remember correctly, you've given high praise to Seahf 320 LD 3.0. how is it now? I got mine and so far after 3 days burn-in, I'm loving the sound. More laid-back than the Cygnus but bigger, prominent bass as well as soundstage.


----------



## JASru

Another new cheapo on Penon
 https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/HE-150ohm-L-shaped-plug-HiFi-Earbuds-Earphone/32761965304.html?spm=2114.14010208.99999999.265.AhkTKn


----------



## JASru

Has anyone compared Qian 39 to 25? How is the latter?
 39 is really good,though not completely my cup of tea.
 I am considering getting second  pair of 39 and 25on 11.11


----------



## Tomasz2D

jasru said:


> Has anyone compared Qian 39 to 25? How is the latter?
> 39 is really good,though not completely my cup of tea.
> I am considering getting second  pair of 39 and 25on 11.11


 
 I only have Qian25. Overall balanced but with accent shifted towards bass side a bit making it more fun signature. Plays clearly and with good dynamics. All in all very nice bud worth trying.


----------



## springbay

jrazmar said:


> @springbay if I remember correctly, you've given high praise to Seahf 320 LD 3.0. how is it now? I got mine and so far after 3 days burn-in, I'm loving the sound. More laid-back than the Cygnus but bigger, prominent bass as well as soundstage.


 
  
 Absolutely. The LD-3 320 are my all round buds for laid back listening to music and also my first choice for watching late night Television.
 I use my foam/cotton modded FAAEAL 300 for commuting to work. They sounded horrible before, but after the mod they are quite great.
 K's 500 have become my bass buds for listening to high energetic dance music and also my preferred buds for watching action movies. The best ear bud bass I've ever heard.
 RX-1 are my preferred buds for listening to music or talk radio in bed when I'm about to go to take a nap. Mainly because I can lie on the side without it getting uncomfortable with my ear pushing on the pillow.
 The Mojitos will be my buds for critical listening ans also heavy metal, rock, and acoustic music.
  
 If all my other buds were taken away from me, I could actually live with the situation of only being able to use the LD-3 320 for the rest of my life.


----------



## kovik

I choose between k'500 and ty hi-z hp650 wchich one is better?


----------



## CingKrab

So I guess it's my turn for a mini rant on shipping.  I, too, also ordered the **** PT15.  It was from a seller not to be named here I think.  I got a Singpost tracking number, which did not work after ten days as specified, so I checked up a couple of times with the seller, got the usual assurances that it's been shipped and to just wait.  It was supposedly shipped on the 22nd of October.  After checking that tracking number daily, it finally works... today.  And Singpost tracking doesn't show that the physical item has actually been received yet.  Given that the holiday season is coming up, and the CBSA's propensity for more than a month long delays, it's going to take a minor miracle for it to arrive before the end of the year.


----------



## ProspektFi

I see that the PT15 with silver cable is pricier than the others. Should there be differences in sound and/or build quality?


----------



## AkashS04

Any suggestion for Earfoams or earbud covers for Monk+ and any other earbud? The ones which came with earbuds are not comfortable. Earbuds are not fitting properly if I use them and if I don't use then earbuds are uncomfortable. This was not the case with Apple Earbuds or even with EM3.


----------



## Willber

akashs04 said:


> Any suggestion for Earfoams or earbud covers for Monk+ and any other earbud? The ones which came with earbuds are not comfortable. Earbuds are not fitting properly if I use them and if I don't use then earbuds are uncomfortable. This was not the case with Apple Earbuds or even with EM3.


 
 Not comfortable in what way? Too thick, too thin, too rough?


----------



## AkashS04

Little rough if I don't put covers and when cover is on, they don't fit properly and it seems they will come out any time. Not getting the proper sound until I press them little.


----------



## vapman

jasru said:


> Has anyone compared Qian 39 to 25? How is the latter?
> 39 is really good,though not completely my cup of tea.
> I am considering getting second  pair of 39 and 25on 11.11


 

 Try adding a tiny bit of cotton behind the driver and putting a 60-75 ohm resistor inline?
  

 edit: I only actually ended up using half as much cotton as is shown here. The shells are quite thin and not much was needed.


----------



## teesui

Anyone have a suggestion for earbuds that's smaller than the Monks or shaped better for smaller ears? Looking to add a pair of earbuds to my 11/11 shopping list. Looking to spend ~$20-30 on them.


----------



## Willber

teesui said:


> Anyone have a suggestion for earbuds that's smaller than the Monks or shaped better for smaller ears? Looking to add a pair of earbuds to my 11/11 shopping list. Looking to spend ~$20-30 on them.


 
  
 Qian39 are smaller in all dimensions than Monk+ and IMO sound better. As do SHE3800 which are the same diameter but slightly slimmer. You can get them both and save still $10-20!


----------



## zabunny94

teesui try edifier h185 if you like brighter sound or edifier h180 of you like v-shaped sound. i feel that both of them have smaller housing than monk

also if you're planning to get h180, avoid the loosepack version because it's not really "edifier" brand but "edifiel" which is probably counterfeit since the jack is different than genuine h180(the edifiel one's jack looks similar to philips she3800)

and philips she3800(lol not actually real philips) is actually good for $4


----------



## jant71

vapman said:


> Try adding a tiny bit of cotton behind the driver and putting a 60-75 ohm resistor inline?
> 
> 
> edit: I only actually ended up using half as much cotton as is shown here. The shells are quite thin and not much was needed.


 
  
 Just got my HCK 10/30 order today   Included is Qian 39. Indeed better to my ears than Original Monk and Hi-Z 32. Some beef to the sound, nice mids, good bass reach and good with my Cowon naked as sans amp it gain brightness with added volume which the smooth Qian eats up nicely instead of going too far(yes, RX-1, I'm talking to you).
  
 Seems to work well with the BGVP cables. Not tried the "A" as I have an RX-1 so why push them there, "B" adds both a little bass and even more mids, and the Bass cable "C" adds a bit of bass like the "B" but leave the mids like stock. Like the Mids cable adds a bit of bass since I don't want to lose any to help the mids.
  
 Love the small size and the fit is perfect for me. Cable is rubbery/springy but light being thinner than others. Got the RA plug and it is decent. Not as nice and low profile as the Hi-Z 32 but that is the only thing I really prefer to the Qian 39. Got them based on vapman's review so, thank you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Probably stick to the Qian 39 and MX680 and let the Hi_Z and RX-1 go.


----------



## Spider fan

Just notice on AE that the T-Music 1 and 2 are now $33 and $40.  I guess the $10 was really an introductory price.  The 2 will be $11 on the 11th salle.  I havent heard anything other than it improved on the mids and highs of the 1 which imho the 1 did need.


----------



## Blueshound24

haiku said:


> To all of you who think about purchasing the EO320
> 
> It´s become obvious to me, why some might be underwhelmed with the EO320 at first listen. It´s not it´s aim to wow you with anything, it´s more about for you to be able to follow each musician with what he/she is doing, without losing the coherence of the presentation. This may be it´s biggest strength among the other competitors imo. Most earbuds wowed me pretty quickly, but then the "enjoyment curve" went south very fast. Another downside at first may also be that it needs a veeeeery long burn in period, in which it opens up more and more, while the sound gets smoother and more brilliant. So you have to be patient. If you can´t, don´t buy it.


 
  
 Sorry, I know it was indicated somewhere in this thread about the differences between the EO320 and the earlier ones,  but I can't find it now. Could someone say if the ones offered by bigbargainonline on eBay is the EO320 or not? TIA.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Xiaomi-1-More-Double-Damping-Grade-Wire-Control-HiFi-Earbuds-Earphones-Rose-Gold-/122009398144?var=&hash=item1c6853ab80m2Gy-zy2AO4grkcaqjFsq_w


----------



## jant71

The 3 buttons in a row remote is the correct one so the one you linked to is the wrong one based on the pics in the listing.


----------



## Spider fan

blueshound24 said:


> Sorry, I know it was indicated somewhere in this thread about the differences between the EO320 and the earlier ones,  but I can't find it now. Could someone say if the ones offered by bigbargainonline on eBay is the EO320 or not? TIA.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Xiaomi-1-More-Double-Damping-Grade-Wire-Control-HiFi-Earbuds-Earphones-Rose-Gold-/122009398144?var=&hash=item1c6853ab80m2Gy-zy2AO4grkcaqjFsq_w


 
 I just looked on the app and these are going to be on sale for $15 on the 11/11 sale.  BigBargainOnline is Penon so bascially ordering from AE in someway except for the fact you can use paypal.  
  
 I could be wrong but on AE the originals say android for the mic while the newer ones say android and ios.
  
 These and the QIAN39 at $5 are the 2 on my 11/11 list so far.


----------



## Willber

blueshound24 said:


> Sorry, I know it was indicated somewhere in this thread about the differences between the EO320 and the earlier ones,  but I can't find it now. Could someone say if the ones offered by bigbargainonline on eBay is the EO320 or not? TIA.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Xiaomi-1-More-Double-Damping-Grade-Wire-Control-HiFi-Earbuds-Earphones-Rose-Gold-/122009398144?var=&hash=item1c6853ab80m2Gy-zy2AO4grkcaqjFsq_w


 
  
 Given that the description says "support *part *of function of IOS devices" I believe that these are the earlier EO303 (the EO320 *fully *supports IOS, I think). The only visible difference is the controller which isn't shown in the pictures.


----------



## jrazmar

springbay said:


> Absolutely. The LD-3 320 are my all round buds for laid back listening to music and also my first choice for watching late night Television.
> I use my foam/cotton modded FAAEAL 300 for commuting to work. They sounded horrible before, but after the mod they are quite great.
> K's 500 have become my bass buds for listening to high energetic dance music and also my preferred buds for watching action movies. The best ear bud bass I've ever heard.
> RX-1 are my preferred buds for listening to music or talk radio in bed when I'm about to go to take a nap. Mainly because I can lie on the side without it getting uncomfortable with my ear pushing on the pillow.
> ...


 
  
 Got it! Thanks. Btw, does the Seahf change with specific burn-in period? Have you ever noticed perceivable changes with yours? I wonder if it's worthwhile to further do burn-in my unit.


----------



## Blueshound24

spider fan said:


> blueshound24 said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, I know it was indicated somewhere in this thread about the differences between the EO320 and the earlier ones,  but I can't find it now. Could someone say if the ones offered by bigbargainonline on eBay is the EO320 or not? TIA.
> ...


 
  
 Have never ordered from AE, anybody have a link for a good seller for the EO320?


----------



## vapman

spider fan said:


> Just notice on AE that the T-Music 1 and 2 are now $33 and $40.  I guess the $10 was really an introductory price.  The 2 will be $11 on the 11th salle.  I havent heard anything other than it improved on the mids and highs of the 1 which imho the 1 did need.


 
 Good luck to them selling them at that prices!  for a bud that's not notably better than the monk in any way...


----------



## purplesun

willber said:


> Given that the description says "support *part *of function of IOS devices" I believe that these are the earlier EO303 (the EO320 *fully *supports IOS, I think). The only visible difference is the controller which isn't shown in the pictures.


 

 From what I can figure out:
 The older model remote's 3 buttons are not inline (2 vol. in front & 1 behind).
 Whereas, the EO320 remote's 3 buttons are all in line (3 in the front).
  
@Willber, is that correct? Thanks.
  
 EDIT: Just read the answer up on 1 of the posts.


----------



## Willber

purplesun said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Given that the description says "support *part *of function of IOS devices" I believe that these are the earlier EO303 (the EO320 *fully *supports IOS, I think). The only visible difference is the controller which isn't shown in the pictures.
> ...


 
  
 Yep, that's it.
 (From what I remember, similar to the difference between the controllers of the Piston 2 and Piston 3 IEMs.)


----------



## Willber

blueshound24 said:


> Have never ordered from AE, anybody have a link for a good seller for the EO320?


 
  
 I got mine from here:
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1more-EO320-XiaoMi-Hybrid-In-Ear-Earphone-stereo-earbud-with-Remote-Mic-for-Xiaomi-Note-Redmi/32660452812.html
  
 Note the bottom picture:


----------



## Spider fan

willber said:


> I got mine from here:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1more-EO320-XiaoMi-Hybrid-In-Ear-Earphone-stereo-earbud-with-Remote-Mic-for-Xiaomi-Note-Redmi/32660452812.html
> 
> Note the bottom picture:


 
  
 I looked awhile and I couldnt find anyone else that showed the picture of the mic.  I think they seem to be the safest to get the correct model.  $21 on 11/11.


----------



## Spider fan

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-HCK-TP1-High-Impedance-150-ohms-Flat-Head-Plug-Earbud-Earphone-HCK-Custom-High-Impedance/1825606_32654824902.html
  
 Looks like HCK got their own earbud and with the comfortable Cygnus shell.


----------



## Willber

> I looked awhile and I couldnt find anyone else that showed the picture of the mic.  I think they seem to be the safest to get the correct model.  $21 on 11/11.


 
  
 Yeah, but they've bumped up the price prior to the sale - I paid $23 six weeks ago.


----------



## Spider fan

willber said:


> Yeah, but they've bumped up the price prior to the sale - I paid $23 six weeks ago.


 
 Yah, I noticed that alot looking around.  The higher RX-1 price stood out.


----------



## annapan2009

If you want to get your favorite sound, you can tune the sound through the tuning tool。It is good 。
 I suggestion you diy earphone。
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/HIFI-Headset/1396671_506776760.html
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/DIY/1396671_506804501.html


----------



## vapman

annapan2009 said:


> If you want to get your favorite sound, you can tune the sound through the tuning tool。It is good 。
> I suggestion you diy earphone。
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/HIFI-Headset/1396671_506776760.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/DIY/1396671_506804501.html


 

 What's a good tool for tuning?
 i think i have heard people use drills...


----------



## Raketen

anyone rec an ali seller for the 11.11 hp650 deal y'all were talking about? I'm out of state so I might actually be able to order from ali...


----------



## vapman

@Raketen I bought mine from Penon, idk if they're gonna have a 11.11 sale yet though. I haven't really checked anything.
  
 when i get my other Qian39 in the mail i'm going to do the 60 ohm inline resistor to another one and leave the other 2 stock, as I really miss the crazy powerful bass of the stock sound, even if it isn't as clear and amazingly balanced as the higher impedance inline
  
 Just imagine the Cygnus with a clear crisp treble up to the very top, but non sibilant and non fatiguing. It's too good for the money! I'm taking it over the Monk+, TY 650, or Cygnus. which is really saying something.
  
  what the heck is up with these buds?! I never in the world thought when I swapped the Koss volume control cable onto my Qian39 for fun the sound would improve this much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (and yes that is the stress reliefs from the KTXPRO1 hanging off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  
 If you have a 75 ohm adapter, try it out on your Qian39 and see if the overpowering bass is tamed a little and balance is improved?
  

 Yes, this is the look one of the best earbud mods I've ever heard...... *EVER.*
 Just sayin', if this was being sold as a high end bud, I would have not contested that claim...


----------



## annapan2009

1. The sound quality of the unit is important
 2. Mixing paper
 3. Process
 4. Line
  
 paper
  
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/DIY-Earphone-Accessories/1396671_510380399.html?spm=2114.8147860.0.0.k1RiAa
  
 line
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/cable/1396671_507672198.html
  
 unit
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/Speaker-unit/1396671_507430817.html


----------



## Nachash

spider fan said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-HCK-TP1-High-Impedance-150-ohms-Flat-Head-Plug-Earbud-Earphone-HCK-Custom-High-Impedance/1825606_32654824902.html
> 
> Looks like HCK got their own earbud and with the comfortable Cygnus shell.


 
 Interesting...
  


raketen said:


> anyone rec an ali seller for the 11.11 hp650 deal y'all were talking about? I'm out of state so I might actually be able to order from ali...


 
 Beteran maybe? He's selling it for $78 w/o box, $83 with the box


----------



## luedriver

vapman said:


> If you have a 75 ohm adapter, try it out on your Qian39 and see if the overpowering bass is tamed a little and balance is improved?
> 
> Yes, this is the look one of the best earbud mods I've ever heard...... *EVER.*
> Just sayin', if this was being sold as a high end bud, I would have not contested that claim...


 
 I was holding out on these earbuds, as I have many, but now am curious, as I see 3 sellers on aliexpress, could you recommend a seller?


----------



## vapman

luedriver said:


> I was holding out on these earbuds, as I have many, but now am curious, as I see 3 sellers on aliexpress, could you recommend a seller?


 

 Whoever's cheapest and offers ePacket, I guess! That's just how I go every time...
  
 Likewise I finally gave in and got some she3800


----------



## Nachash

vapman said:


> Likewise I finally gave in and got some she3800


 
 yay


----------



## luedriver

vapman said:


> Whoever's cheapest and offers ePacket, I guess! That's just how I go every time...
> 
> Likewise I finally gave in and got some she3800


 
 thanks, only asking to avoid fakes, I will look forward to hearing your opinion on them
  
  
  
 edit, its not nice when looking for something on ali and it shows you only 3 options, then you look it up with duckduckgo and find other sellers
  
  
 found this, with free epacket shipping, $6.40USD tomorrow with the big 11.11 sale


----------



## Nachash

luedriver said:


> edit, its not nice when looking for something on ali and it shows you only 3 options, then you look it up with duckduckgo and find other sellers
> 
> 
> found this, with free epacket shipping, $6.40USD tomorrow with the big 11.11 sale


 
 This is what it shows on mine


----------



## Danneq

I think that the search feature on Ali express is not very good. Often I only get 1 or 2 results and not the seller that someone has posted a link to in this thread.


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> I think that the search feature on Ali express is not very good. Often I only get 1 or 2 results and not the seller that someone has posted a link to in this thread.


yes it is


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Likewise I finally gave in and got some she3800


 yay (2)


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> I think that the search feature on Ali express is not very good. Often I only get 1 or 2 results and not the seller that someone has posted a link to in this thread.


 
 Search works much better via Ali mobile apps.


----------



## purplesun

With so much talk about K's 500; here's some more wallet-busting K's earbuds from taobao:
  
 600 ohms
 https://world.taobao.com/item/534517858212.htm?fromSite=main
  
 800 ohms
 https://world.taobao.com/item/534778748193.htm?fromSite=main
  
 Copy & paste the original URL to your favourite translater website.
 My bet is @music4mhell will be first to 800 
  
 There's something in there about a limited-stock 1200ohms as well!


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> yes it is


 

 No it isn't  

  


tomasz2d said:


> Search works much better via Ali mobile apps.


 

 Yeah, I noticed that the other day. Overall I prefer the desktop version because it is easier to get an overview of a seller's store. Also I cannot find a good way to filter a seller's store in the app like on the desktop version. So now I search and find earbuds in the app + making orders there since the prices are a little bit lower. Looking through seller's stores and making payment is usually on the desktop version.


----------



## Muniek66

Hi everyone,
  
 I'm looking for upgrade for my *VE Monk +*. It's a good moment because of 11.11. My budget: max to 80 -90 USD. My source: AudioQuest Dragonfly Red and Sound Blaster E3.
  
 I thought about *TY HI-Z HP-650* (in promo price is around 80 USD), *SEAHF 320, SEAHF* *400, Red De'mun *(no promotion, but worthy of attention).
  
 In terms of sound signature, I am looking for earbuds a little little warmer and darker than Monk +, but generally their sound profile suits me.
  
 I am afraid that *TY HI-Z HP-650* may be too demanding for for my sources.
  
  
 Thanks a lot for any suggestions 
  
  
 P.S. I browse the Aliexpress and wonder if *TY HI-Z *models constructively is the same as *SEAHF?*


----------



## Brandon7s

muniek66 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm looking for upgrade for my *VE Monk +*. It's a good moment because of 11.11. My budget: max to 80 -90 USD. My source: AudioQuest Dragonfly Red and Sound Blaster E3.
> 
> ...


 
  
 From what I've heard vapman say about the HP-650, they are actually pretty forgiving of source and easy to drive due to being of such high sensitivity. I'm in the same boat you are, though I also bought the RX-1, TY Hi-Z 150Ohms, and the Rose Masya first in an effort to find something that is an upgrade from the Monk+ with the same general sound signature.
  
 The one that comes the closest is the TY Hi-Z 150Ohms. The RX-1 is decent but severely lacking in bass. The Masya has an overwhelmingly dramatic V-shape sound signature and it's highs are very fatiguing for me, so that's not a good option. The 150Ohms is like a slightly more bass-heavy Monk+ with a little less mids. That's why I ordered the HP-650; I heard it is a fairly neutral earbud with great detail and soundstage.
  
  It should be arriving tomorrow or Saturday! Though it apparently requires quite a bit of burn-in to get to it's real potential.. but I'll post my first impressions when I get it anyway.


----------



## the diode

Where can I order the TY HI-Z HP-650?


----------



## Brandon7s

the diode said:


> Where can I order the TY HI-Z HP-650?


 

 I ordered mine from Penonaudio.com for $119. You can probably get it for just under $90 on Aliexpress, especially with the 11.11 sale going on tomorrow though, but I've not shopped through Aliexpress before and since Penon takes only 2 weeks for shipping, I'd prefer to go through them rather than risk something elsewhere.


----------



## the diode

Thank you, I don't know how I missed them on there.


----------



## fairx

I'm broke this month. So sure what to get during this 11.11. Maybe a good budget dektop dac? After ty 320 ohm I'm not sure what to get anymore. Maybe k 500 but even with sales it's over my budget. Sigh. How does **** pt15 stack against rx-1?


----------



## springbay

A heads up to everybody looking to make a good deal tomorrow on AliExpress. All the sellers have been raising their prices the last few days, to make the sale price look even better.
 You look up the items you are interested in by putting the URL of the item in the search field on this page:
 http://www.chnprice.com/
 And you will get info on how the price of that item, by that seller, has changed over time. You can also install the plug-in to your browser, but no need to do that if you don't fully trust the author.
  
 Quote:


jrazmar said:


> Got it! Thanks. Btw, does the Seahf change with specific burn-in period? Have you ever noticed perceivable changes with yours? I wonder if it's worthwhile to further do burn-in my unit.


 
  
 To be honest; I've never heard head gear change signature over time. So I'm not a firm believer in burn in, other than that your brain get accustomed to the sound while listening, and you perhaps like the signature even more after a few days of usage. I think the LD-3 320 sound just as good today as the wow feeling I got when I first put them in my ears.


----------



## Ira Delphic

I received my PT15 this morning. First impression - this is a treble monster. Very bright and accurate high end. Tight bass. I spent only a little time with it, source LG V10.
  
 It comes with zippered case,  a pair of regular foams and a pair of doughnut foams. This is my first buds/earphones with removable cables. A little disconcerting how they spin around at the connection point. The straight plug appears to be good quality. The shells are metal - heavy. Well, heavier than Monks. The design appear to be similar to Tings (which I don't own)?
  
 I'm impressed!


----------



## Tomasz2D

ira delphic said:


> I received my PT15 this morning. First impression - this is a treble monster. Very bright and accurate high end. Tight bass. I spent only a little time with it, source LG V10.


 
 How are mids?


----------



## ProspektFi

ira delphic said:


> I received my PT15 this morning. First impression - this is a treble monster. Very bright and accurate high end. Tight bass. I spent only a little time with it, source LG V10.
> 
> It comes with zippered case,  a pair of regular foams and a pair of doughnut foams. This is my first buds/earphones with removable cables. A little disconcerting how they spin around at the connection point. The straight plug appears to be good quality. The shells are metal - heavy. Well, heavier than Monks. The design appear to be similar to Tings (which I don't own)?
> 
> I'm impressed!




How it sound compared to Monk+?


----------



## Holypal

ira delphic said:


> I received my PT15 this morning. First impression - this is a treble monster. Very bright and accurate high end. Tight bass. I spent only a little time with it, source LG V10.
> 
> It comes with zippered case,  a pair of regular foams and a pair of doughnut foams. This is my first buds/earphones with removable cables. A little disconcerting how they spin around at the connection point. The straight plug appears to be good quality. The shells are metal - heavy. Well, heavier than Monks. The design appear to be similar to Tings (which I don't own)?
> 
> I'm impressed!


 
  
 Another **** treble monster? Oh, man. I'm not so eager to see my shipment now.


----------



## Ira Delphic

holypal said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > I received my PT15 this morning. First impression - this is a treble monster. Very bright and accurate high end. Tight bass. I spent only a little time with it, source LG V10.
> ...


 
  
 I just gave it a quick listen - three tracks. It's bright for sure - there's no veil. I don't have the 4in1 but I imagine a similar sound signature. The highs are clear, and (again need more time) overall sound v shaped. EQ was set to flat of course and I had no desire to increase high or low ends.


----------



## vapman

What i'm more worried about with my **** bud on the way is hoping it won't fall apart! I've seen an awful lot of posts about people's 4-in-1's falling apart in unpleasant ways. Steel mesh sticking out of it and whatever.


----------



## purplesun

ira delphic said:


> I received my PT15 this morning. First impression - this is a treble monster. Very bright and accurate high end. Tight bass. I spent only a little time with it, source LG V10.
> 
> I'm impressed!


 
  
 Hope I get mine soon as well. Sounds like something I would like. I guess they are still sticking to their **** sound.
  
 Their black or blue basic cables can sound bright, do you have another MMCX cable to try out?


----------



## kvad

Thought I might pick up one of the Daik earbuds tomorrow. There's two of them though, one that only comes with fixed cable described as the DK-Pu / DK-Jin and another that have either fixed or detachable cable called DK-Pu / DK-Song. I saw ClieOS had the DK-Song in his list. Anyone know if that is the preferred one of the two?
 Realize they might not be the best sounding, but I've been attracted to their looks for some time, and with a few coupons thought tomorrow might be a good time to give them a try.


----------



## Tomasz2D

kvad said:


> Thought I might pick up one of the Daik earbuds tomorrow. There's two of them though, one that only comes with fixed cable described as the DK-Pu / DK-Jin and another that have either fixed or detachable cable called DK-Pu / DK-Song. I saw ClieOS had the DK-Song in his list. Anyone know if that is the preferred one of the two?
> Realize they might not be the best sounding, but I've been attracted to their looks for some time, and with a few coupons thought tomorrow might be a good time to give them a try.


 
 They both sound almost identical. Balanced and warm intimate sound. Song has a bit more air and a bit tighter bass while Jin has a bit softer bass and closer soundstage. Still very small differences.


----------



## Tomasz2D

All right. So Danneq didn't want to create mass drop for Cypherus Audio X earbuds this time (I was hoping for similar drop as for HD6XX) so I'm gonna spend my money for some Chinese stuff instead. It has been already said quite a lot about TY 650, Qian39 and EO320. Also first PT15s have been received - and as I understand they are trebly (good!) and v-shaped (not good!). But what's the story about Moondrop VX Pro? People that have it, do you still like it? How is it after some time has passed already?


----------



## JASru

vapman said:


> What i'm more worried about with my **** bud on the way is hoping it won't fall apart! I've seen an awful lot of posts about people's 4-in-1's falling apart in unpleasant ways. Steel mesh sticking out of it and whatever.


 
 Have 4 in 1 for more than two month. Still good. Anyway that can be fixed by just glueing it back =)


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> All right. So Danneq didn't want to create mass drop for Cypherus Audio X earbuds this time (I was hoping for similar drop as for HD6XX)




Haha! I was going to ask Herry about group purchase but forgot. Will try to remember to do that. He's quite nice and does not mind to chat.

Ordered CampFred and CAX black edition yesterday. Will eat noodles for 6 months from now...

Hopefully the earbuds will arrive at the end of next week or the beginning of the week after that.


----------



## kvad

tomasz2d said:


> They both sound almost identical. Balanced and warm intimate sound. Song has a bit more air and a bit tighter bass while Jin has a bit softer bass and closer soundstage. Still very small differences.


 
  
 Sounds good - the DK-Song is even a little cheaper so might just go with that. Thanks!
  


tomasz2d said:


> But what's the story about Moondrop VX Pro? People that have it, do you still like it? How is it after some time has passed already?


 
  
 I haven't really given them as much time as they deserved. They're not bad, but since you have the Mojito I would probably skip them. They're all over a little less refined in my opinion, and somewhat lacking at the lower end in comparison (listening to them again now, they're better than what I remembered first time around). They do look the part though, and I really like that rubber cover that has a little lip on the inside angling the drivers towards your ear canal - wish I had something like that for the Mojito.


----------



## teston

ira delphic said:


> I received my PT15 this morning. First impression - this is a treble monster. Very bright and accurate high end. Tight bass. I spent only a little time with it, source LG V10.
> 
> It comes with zippered case,  a pair of regular foams and a pair of doughnut foams. This is my first buds/earphones with removable cables. A little disconcerting how they spin around at the connection point. The straight plug appears to be good quality. The shells are metal - heavy. Well, heavier than Monks. The design appear to be similar to Tings (which I don't own)?
> 
> I'm impressed!



Oh so it comes with buck package. Maybe some guys who ordered them for $29 will receive the fullbox one.
There's only 2 impressions until now but it looks promising.


----------



## ClieOS

kvad said:


> Thought I might pick up one of the Daik earbuds tomorrow. There's two of them though, one that only comes with fixed cable described as the DK-Pu / DK-Jin and another that have either fixed or detachable cable called DK-Pu / DK-Song. I saw ClieOS had the DK-Song in his list. Anyone know if that is the preferred one of the two?
> Realize they might not be the best sounding, but I've been attracted to their looks for some time, and with a few coupons thought tomorrow might be a good time to give them a try.


 
  
 DK-Jin and DK-Song use the same driver, but slightly different housing. Jin's housing is a bit too shallow in the design, so it is harder to assemble and more difficult to secure the driver in place. Therefore DK makes a deeper housing and renames it Song. DK-Song comes with either fixed cable or MMCX connector version. DK-Jin, as far as I know, only comes with fixed cable.


----------



## music4mhell

clieos said:


> kvad said:
> 
> 
> > Thought I might pick up one of the Daik earbuds tomorrow. There's two of them though, one that only comes with fixed cable described as the DK-Pu / DK-Jin and another that have either fixed or detachable cable called DK-Pu / DK-Song. I saw ClieOS had the DK-Song in his list. Anyone know if that is the preferred one of the two?
> ...


 
 Hello Sir, did you try the Qfred/ Campfred ?
 And how is the new Concerto earbud ?


----------



## vapman

Where can the Sanyo EAH-Z3E be purchased?


----------



## music4mhell

annapan2009 said:


> BGVP earphone is good
> For your kind information, this thread is only for Earbuds .. not IEMs...


 
 I presume you know the difference between IEM and Earbud !


----------



## music4mhell

What are your list for 11.11 sale ?
  
 I have below list :
  
 1. Hidizs AP60
 2. Benjie S5
 3. Remax 303


----------



## ClieOS

music4mhell said:


> Hello Sir, did you try the Qfred/ Campfred ?
> And how is the new Concerto earbud ?


 
  
 No, not sure I want to pay that much for those earbuds yet.
  
 Don't have any detail on Concerto yet as I don't really have a lot of time listening to earbuds for the past few weeks.
  


vapman said:


> Where can the Sanyo EAH-Z3E be purchased?


 
  
 https://world.taobao.com/item/531410873409.htm
  
 Note that they are pretty old stock so the finishing isn't great. Have to use with foam pad but will be a good DIY project for recabling.


----------



## oopeteroo

Lol I missed 200 post of this thread lease

So it's first time in my life hearing about 11.11 sale.......is this bigger than black friday/cyber Monday ? And mainly for Asia countries ?

Any good deals under 50usd for vocal lover ?


----------



## vapman

Thanks for that info, ClieOS. Will be the bud that finally pushes me to make a MisterTao order!'
  
  


music4mhell said:


> What are your list for 11.11 sale ?
> 
> I have below list :
> 
> ...


 

 One more Qian39 probably, and 1MORE E320,  and more KZ brand cables for DIY
  
 want to hear more about Yinman HiFi (音曼) 醇净2.0 500ohm but probably not on Ali anyway!


----------



## golov17

oopeteroo said:


> Lol I missed 200 post of this thread lease
> 
> So it's first time in my life hearing about 11.11 sale.......is this bigger than black friday/cyber Monday ? And mainly for Asia countries ?
> 
> Any good deals under 50usd for vocal lover ?


 2016 Original Boarseman MX98s
 http://s.aliexpress.com/E7Bzye6n
 http://s.aliexpress.com/6F7NRRVb


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> 2016 Original Boarseman MX98s
> http://s.aliexpress.com/E7Bzye6n
> http://s.aliexpress.com/6F7NRRVb


 

 24.99 not a bad price for Grado, mids or vocal lover ♛ ✌️


----------



## Tomasz2D

kvad said:


> I haven't really given them as much time as they deserved. They're not bad, but since you have the Mojito I would probably skip them. They're all over a little less refined in my opinion, and somewhat lacking at the lower end in comparison (listening to them again now, they're better than what I remembered first time around). They do look the part though, and I really like that rubber cover that has a little lip on the inside angling the drivers towards your ear canal - wish I had something like that for the Mojito.


 
 How are the mids and do you feel VX Pro are balanced or v-shaped?


----------



## thugangel123

Can anyone tell me what these k 64 earbuds are ? Any links to it. 

 Having a hard time searching it just by that lol. 
  
 nvm found em.


----------



## oopeteroo

golov17 said:


> 2016 Original Boarseman MX98s
> http://s.aliexpress.com/E7Bzye6n
> http://s.aliexpress.com/6F7NRRVb



How does this compare to rx-1 ?


----------



## vapman

oopeteroo said:


> How does this compare to rx-1 ?


 
 MUCH more aggressive! one of the most aggressive sounding buds i know. excellent for rock/metal.... more forward mids than rx-1, or most buds. light bass, can be a little rough sounding compared to rx1, most one of the most energetic buds.
  
  
  
 I tried to buy *Yinman HiFi (音曼) 醇净2.0 500ohm* but bought their 150ohm instead...!


----------



## Danneq

clieos said:


> No, not sure I want to pay that much for those earbuds yet.


 

 Well, how about you buy my pair of QFred for $200 including registered shipping (that would be about $20). Then I'll buy a new pair of QFred. I'll lose some money in the process, but it would be cool if some more opinions on QFred could be heard.

 You might not like it, but seeing that you put Sennheiser MX985 and Blox TM7 at the top of your list we might have some preference for sound signature in common.

 QFred is different sounding than MX985 and TM7, but to my ears it's definitely on the same level. Too bad that the high price and lack of feedback keeps people from trying it out...

 (The offer above is ONLY for ClieOS)


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> How are the mids and do you feel VX Pro are balanced or v-shaped?


 balanced


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> Haha! I was going to ask Herry about group purchase but forgot. Will try to remember to do that. He's quite nice and does not mind to chat.


 
 Let's see but I guess Herry would rather like to keep the prices at luxury product level. My personal psychological price barrier for earbuds is set at around $150 (delivered). And I have crossed this boarder only once, after fighting with myself for few months and that was with Mojito. In fact, later I regretted it but maybe that's only because Mojito didn't really appeal to my personal tastes.


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> Let's see but I guess Herry would rather like to keep the prices at luxury product level. My personal psychological price barrier for earbuds is set at around $150 (delivered). And I have crossed this boarder only once, after fighting with myself for few months and that was with Mojito. In fact, later I regretted it but maybe that's only because Mojito didn't really appeal to my personal tastes.


 


 Well, my barrier used to be around $100. It was completely crushed when I got into vintage earbuds.

 I wasn't overly thrilled with Celsus Gramo One ($249). It is technically great and very transparent and natural. It just didn't work for me. Same with VE Zen 2. I would have kept Mojito since it worked great with metal, but to my ears QFred obliterated it when it comes to timbre and even soundstage (much more narrow on QFred but better depth and tallness).
 I think Blox TM7 was the first $100+ earbud that was not vintage that I bought. Have not regretted it one second. With QFred I only felt a second of remorse after I just had taken it out of the box and listened to metal. Wrong music genre for QFred and it was before burn in...


----------



## oopeteroo

Tomahawks for 27 usd. ....should i buy ?:O


----------



## Danneq

oopeteroo said:


> Tomahawks for 27 usd. ....should i buy ?:O


 


 Great price! Some (including me) like it and some don't.


----------



## Akmola Lola

oopeteroo said:


> Tomahawks for 27 usd. ....should i buy ?:O


 
 i would go for it.. but caution as its bass can be a bit overwhelming... 
 last time i got it my batch got some hiss issue on left side due to the 'coca cola' stick near the phone but once u twist to tighten it problem solved n vanished..


----------



## music4mhell

tomasz2d said:


> danneq said:
> 
> 
> > Haha! I was going to ask Herry about group purchase but forgot. Will try to remember to do that. He's quite nice and does not mind to chat.
> ...


 
 Yes, same here. $150 is a good ball park  He will get many customers if he changes the price !


----------



## Nachash

That cheap HP650 is already gone, he removed it as soon as the sale started ...


----------



## slim311

Been following this thread for awhile, and I just placed my 11.11 order. Now the waiting begins! Currently only have Monk+, but I'm wading into the shallow end of the pool with a sampling of various budget buds. Cheers!


----------



## Nachash

slim311 said:


> Been following this thread for awhile, and I just placed my 11.11 order. Now the waiting begins! Currently only have Monk+, but I'm wading into the shallow end of the pool with a sampling of various budget buds. Cheers!


 
 Which ones?


----------



## JASru

My list of incoming buds :
 VX Pro
 K's 64
 Fareal 64
 TP-16 (yep, I wanna put some reserves on this one, gonna be my third piece of this one)
 TY Colorad
  
 Plus a nice looking copper cable, some boxes aaaand **** UE to see more of **** products.
  
 What about you guys?


----------



## Raketen

nachash said:


> That cheap HP650 is already gone, he removed it as soon as the sale started ...




aha... good thing I came to my senses (way too many headphones... and one preorder) and didn't try ordering I guess. There were multiple sellers all in the same range, the cheapest price didn't include shipping it looked like.


----------



## Nachash

raketen said:


> aha... good thing I came to my senses (way too many headphones... and BK preorder) and didn't try ordering I guess. There were multiple sellers all in the same range, the cheapest price didn't include shipping it looked like.


 
 It did for me, it didn't include the box though


----------



## slim311

nachash said:


> Which ones?




Qian25
Qian39
TY 32
K25
K25S
Fareal 64
and some Meizu EP21/EP21HD just for the 3-button android mic, although I'll probably end up getting some RP Monk+ with the android mic as well. 

I have a feeling budget buds could become a bottomless pit for me. Already thinking about what's next (MX98, TY150, TP16, etc..) The value though! It's hard to feel guilty about spending less than 20 bucks on some earbuds. I would spend that much on a good steak.


----------



## Nachash

slim311 said:


> Qian25
> Qian39
> TY 32
> K25
> ...


 

 Oh, the Qian25 is available on ali too now. I'll grab one


----------



## Tomasz2D

So my today 11.11. purchases:
  
 **** PT15 (silver cable)
 Qian39
 1More EO320
 Moondrop VX Pro
 TY HP650
  
 My next earbud purchases will be on 11.11.2017 - NOT SOONER !!!
 See you next year everybody!


----------



## JASru

slim311 said:


> Qian25
> Qian39
> TY 32
> K25
> ...


 
 True indeed. But I think this the last time I buy cheap ones. Gonna go for high end next.

 Wanted to get spare Qian 39, but decided that it isn't really worth rushing.

 Could you please compare Qians once they arrive?


----------



## Tomasz2D

jasru said:


> Could you please compare Qians once they arrive?


 
 Sure I will.


----------



## slim311

tomasz2d said:


> My next earbud purchases will be on 11.11.2017 - NOT SOONER !!!
> 
> See you next year everybody!




I have a feeling my next one will be something like 1.1.2017


----------



## JASru

tomasz2d said:


> So my today 11.11. purchases:
> 
> **** PT15 (silver cable)
> Qian39
> ...


 
 We all know that New Year is coming. And Chineese New Year... 

 Somehow I am holding myself from buying EO320 and TY650.
 Maybe I will  get 650, but EO320 is most likely a miss for me. I do not like having mic on my earphones.


----------



## slim311

jasru said:


> True indeed. But I think this the last time I buy cheap ones. Gonna go for high end next.
> 
> 
> Wanted to get spare Qian 39, but decided that it isn't really worth rushing.
> ...




No problem. Hopefully they're here before Christmas


----------



## JASru

tomasz2d said:


> Sure I will.


 
 Thx.
 Hope slim311 would do that too. It is always good to  compare models of one brand to see consistencyand even better when performed by many=)


----------



## teston

**** PT15 with silver cable for 13.65 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 OMG
 So sad that I placed it earlier with high prices, no money for it again. K's 500 placed.


----------



## JASru

teston said:


> **** PT15 with silver cable for 13.65
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I ordered second pair. W/o cable  though.


----------



## Nachash

jasru said:


> I ordered second pair. W/o cable  though.


 

 I can't find it, can you share the link please?


----------



## JASru

nachash said:


> I can't find it, can you share the link please?


 You can order by HCK and others. Just pick the cableless "color"


----------



## Holypal

jasru said:


> My list of incoming buds :
> VX Pro
> K's 64
> Fareal 64
> ...


 
  
  
 In China, we say today is the day you need to chop off your hands.


----------



## teston

holypal said:


> In China, we say today is the day you need to chop off your hands.


 
 Darn right. I'm going to placed some more other buds as I can't resist the price


----------



## Nachash

jasru said:


> You can order by HCK and others. Just pick the cableless "color"


 

 It didn't appear at first, so I used google.
 I'll grab another one with the silver cable + qian25


----------



## oopeteroo

So i will try to limit myself to buy just 1 earbud today....

Someone help me please, Which one ? 
Tomahawk
Tp15 (don't know anything about it but since everyone is like buying it )
Tp16
Boarseman MX98s

For my sansa clip plus without amp ...


----------



## vapman

oopeteroo said:


> So i will try to limit myself to buy just 1 earbud today....
> 
> Someone help me please, Which one ?
> 
> ...


 

 music style/preferences?
 what did / did you not like about what you heard about tomahawk, mx98s?


----------



## oopeteroo

vapman said:


> music style/preferences?
> what did / did you not like about what you heard about tomahawk, mx98s?



Actually not heard any of them xD I'm usually listening to kpop, jpop, anime music, ballad, vocal, acoustic ....

Oh ****, there are qian39 and qian25 for pretty cheap...

I guess they are all better than monk+ ?


----------



## vapman

oopeteroo said:


> Actually not heard any of them xD I'm usually listening to kpop, jpop, anime music, ballad, vocal, acoustic ....
> 
> Oh ****, there are qian39 and qian25 for pretty cheap...
> 
> I guess they are all better than monk+ ?


 

 well I still think Monk+ is one of the most natural and well balanced sound of ANY earbud, so they're not -all- better than monk+, but that's just opinion!
  
 39 is great, i bought a 25 today but never heard it yet...
  
 39 is one of the best buds period for kpop/jpop/anime though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 never heard tp15/tp16, and i wasn't a tomahawk fan, you might find the tomahawk or mx98s too bright/cold for kpop/jpop/anime but not  bad for ballad/vocal/acoustic... i think you'd like 39 for all genres


----------



## golov17

For me 25 better than 39


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> For me 25 better than 39


 

 better vocals?


----------



## Saoshyant

For now I know I'm ordering the Qian39 & 1More to try, but unsure if I want to pick up the K's 500 or something else.  Anyone have any suggestions?


----------



## Nachash

Went cheap,
 Qian25
 **** PT15 (again, this time silver)
 Remax 303


----------



## Saoshyant

Honestly, I should try the Qian25 as well given how inexpensive it is.  Are there any top end bass-heavy (relatively speaking for earbuds) options out there for the 11.11 sale?  I could have sworn I remember reading that the K's 500 is bassy with an excellent sound, but can't guarantee I'm remembering correctly.


----------



## vapman

ah, if anyone can find a seller for Qian69 under $30 please let me know? i saw a couple on taobao but for $35-40...
  


saoshyant said:


> Honestly, I should try the Qian25 as well given how inexpensive it is.  Are there any top end bass-heavy (relatively speaking for earbuds) options out there for the 11.11 sale?  I could have sworn I remember reading that the K's 500 is bassy with an excellent sound, but can't guarantee I'm remembering correctly.


 
  
 650 and bass boost eq/decent amp...


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> better vocals?


nope


----------



## kvad

tomasz2d said:


> How are the mids and do you feel VX Pro are balanced or v-shaped?


 
  
 Like Golov said, fairly neutral. Saw you got them already - hope they'll fit your taste!
  
 Btw: has anyone seen any decent MMCX cables with mic?
 Only one I've found is this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Newest-1-2M-Oxygen-free-Copper-Earphone-Cable-HiFi-Headset-Line-with-Mic-Upgrade-Cable-for/32702653075.html?spm=2114.13010308.0.0.ztRdob


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> Yes, same here. $150 is a good ball park  He will get many customers if he changes the price !


 

 But on the other hand Cypherus earbuds are made in very limited numbers. I would guess 100 pairs at most.

 I'd rather pay $200 for a pair of great earbuds than $200 for decent headphones. Sure, you get a fuller sound with headphones, but earbuds has got the ultimate form factor for me and I want to find the perfect earbud for me. My earbud hunting right now has one goal: beat Blox TM7. If or when I find something that beats TM7 I will look for something that beats that earbud. I can consider up to $300 for earbuds as long as they deliver...
 Qfred doesn't beat TM7 but is a wonderful alternative to it.
  
  


nachash said:


> That cheap HP650 is already gone, he removed it as soon as the sale started ...


 

 Well, no HP650 for me this time...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Finally popped my AE cherry by buying the 
 ROSE HYBIRD 1+2

          AND
  
 SENFERS PT-15!!!!

 The price was way below Taobao+11.11 offers! How crazy is that!

 Btw, for the **** I got myself the green cable as from what I know, the "snake skin cable" (green color on Nice HCK's page) is the one which many Taobao seller claims to be utilized by the Sennheiser IE80. 
  
 Do not know whether that is true or not but I got it because they are one of the softer cables around.


----------



## Danneq

Cypherus doesn't only do earbuds:

 Modded copper version of Xduoo X3







 It's probably pretty expensive since the copper housing is custom made and the inside has been modded as well...


----------



## springbay

saoshyant said:


> Honestly, I should try the Qian25 as well given how inexpensive it is.  Are there any top end bass-heavy (relatively speaking for earbuds) options out there for the 11.11 sale?  I could have sworn I remember reading that the K's 500 is bassy with an excellent sound, but can't guarantee I'm remembering correctly.


 
  
 K's 500 are not bassy, like bass focused but they have a terrific bass. If I should compare with my full sized cans:
  
 Seahf LD-3 400 - bloated and over powering bass like Fidelio X2
 K's 500 - exact, detailed and engaging bass like ATH-R70x


----------



## springbay

danneq said:


> Well, no HP650 for me this time...


 
  
 I could not resist - 600 SEK with plenty of coupons used at the seller we can not talk about.


----------



## Danneq

springbay said:


> I could not resist - 600 SEK with plenty of coupons used at the seller we can not talk about.


 


 Not too bad. How much discount did you get with cupons?

 I ordered a few earbuds from


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



N*ceHCK


 about 2 weeks ago. Is it that seller? I'd prefer to for the earbuds to arrive before I'd buy a new one.


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

K's earphone 500ohm for £62. Is it worth it?


----------



## springbay

danneq said:


> Not too bad. How much discount did you get with cupons?
> 
> I ordered a few earbuds from
> 
> ...


 
  
 The 11:11 price is 750 SEK.
 150 SEK in coupons - 100 from seller, 50 from AE.
 HCK don't sell TY Hi-Z.
 It's the e*sy seller that we can't talk about at Head-Fi


----------



## Danneq

springbay said:


> The 11:11 price is 750 SEK.
> 150 SEK in coupons - 100 from seller, 50 from AE.
> HCK don't sell TY Hi-Z.
> It's the e*sy seller that we can't talk about at Head-Fi


 


 Okay. Then I am med on the bana again...(Swenglish)


----------



## JASru

audionewbi3 said:


> Finally popped my AE cherry by buying the
> ROSE HYBIRD 1+2
> 
> AND
> ...


 
 Rose looks interesting, please write in the Rose thread when you receive it.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

jasru said:


> Rose looks interesting, please write in the Rose thread when you receive it.


 
 Will do mate


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

Gah I'm so close to buying the K's earphone 500ohm. Will it be better than my Zen 2.0?


----------



## music4mhell

zombiewinegum said:


> Gah I'm so close to buying the K's earphone 500ohm. Will it be better than my Zen 2.0?


 
 I wil figure it out once my K500 reaches me !


----------



## Robert Turnbull

I've been enjoying 11.11 myself 
  
 Earbuds:
  
 PT15 + Blue @ 11.44
 Qian39 @ 5.51
  
 IEM:
  
 Colorful KZ ZST @ 11.18
 Tennmak Porcelain @ 8.31
  
 DAP:
  
 Shanling M1 + Some USB-C Adaptors @ 115
 128gb micro sd @ 33.59


----------



## kurtextrem

I wonder if I should buy anything while I am waiting for the Stardust :/


----------



## springbay

zombiewinegum said:


> Gah I'm so close to buying the K's earphone 500ohm. Will it be better than my Zen 2.0?


 

 They don't have the same signature. If you prefer a dark signature like Zen 2, then K's 500 is not for you.
 Anyways, I need them both.


----------



## rymd

What's the difference between version 1 and 2 of K's 500 ohm? I can't find an explanation anywhere, on the aliexpress page or searching here.


----------



## springbay

rymd said:


> What's the difference between version 1 and 2 of K's 500 ohm? I can't find an explanation anywhere, on the aliexpress page or searching here.


 

 Different cable and different 3.5mm plug


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

springbay said:


> They don't have the same signature. If you prefer a dark signature like Zen 2, then K's 500 is not for you.
> Anyways, I need them both.


 
 Hmm. Is it bright, or just not so dark like the Zen? Also, does the bass extend nice and low?


----------



## springbay

zombiewinegum said:


> Hmm. Is it bright, or just not so dark like the Zen? Also, does the bass extend nice and low?


 

 Not overly bright, just not as overly dark as the Zen 2.
 The bass scales very well with proper amping. I have never heard an ear bud that handles sub bass as proper as the K's 500. So yeah it extends fairly low.
  
 Edit. If you feel uncertain. Try the K's 64 with white cable, to get a taste. The K's 64 with black cable sound much thinner than the white cable.


----------



## Brandon7s

Oh man, this sale is so bad for my wallet. At least I resisted buying the Shanling M1. Figured I'd probably end up just using my phone 99% of the time even if I had it, since I listen to so many podcasts and stream a lot of music.
  
 I have an HP-650 on the way, but wanted to try out the MusicMaker Tomahawk, so I figured today would be a good day to order it. I, uh.. kind of bought a lot of other things too. Here's my list:
  
 **** PT15, with black cable
 Qian39
 Qian25 (blue)
 Faaeal 64ohms
 MusicMaker Tomahawk (silver)
  
 Plus 3 IEMs (which I generally hate but haven't tried in years) from KZ: ATE, ED10, ED9.
  
 And then about 5 different cases for earbuds/IEMS and several foams for both as well.


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

springbay said:


> Not overly bright, just not as overly dark as the Zen 2.
> The bass scales very well with proper amping. I have never heard an ear bud that handles sub bass as proper as the K's 500. So yeah it extends fairly low.


 
 Soo tempted lol. thanks for your help


----------



## haiku

brandon7s said:


> Oh man, this sale is so bad for my wallet. At least I resisted buying the Shanling M1. Figured I'd probably end up just using my phone 99% of the time even if I had it, since I listen to so many podcasts and stream a lot of music.
> 
> I have an HP-650 on the way, but wanted to try out the MusicMaker Tomahawk, so I figured today would be a good day to order it. I, uh.. kind of bought a lot of other things too. Here's my list:
> 
> ...


 

 ATE S is missing on that list , buddy!


----------



## Brandon7s

Oh, I didnt see the S version of the ATE in the store that I ordered all of the others from (all this stuff was bought at the same store; pretty good selection). Is the non-S version much worse?


----------



## springbay

zombiewinegum said:


> Soo tempted lol. thanks for your help


 
 No problem. While you answered I edited my previous post
 "Edit. If you feel uncertain. Try the K's 64 with white cable, to get a taste. The K's 64 with black cable sound much thinner with weaker bass than the white cable."
  
 I don't know if the same goes for the 500, that the more expensive model sound better than the cheaper one. I have only experience with the more expensive model.


----------



## haiku

brandon7s said:


> Oh, I didnt see the S version of the ATE in the store that I ordered all of the others from (all this stuff was bought at the same store; pretty good selection). Is the non-S version much worse?


 

 It´s ok if you only listen to MP3/4 and 16/44.1 files. If you listen to 24/96 files and higher, the ATE S sounds much better imo.


----------



## kvad

springbay said:


> No problem. While you answered I edited my previous post
> "Edit. If you feel uncertain. Try the K's 64 with white cable, to get a taste. The K's 64 with black cable sound much thinner with weaker bass than the white cable."
> 
> I don't know if the same goes for the 500, that the more expensive model sound better than the cheaper one. I have only experience with the more expensive model.


 

 ​Second the recommendation of the K's 64. Just started listening to the white version, very nice and clear sound. Effortless. Possibly my new favorite in the cheap category (I do like the sharper ones though). Still waiting for the 500, but if it's the same just better I'm pretty sure they're going to climb very high on my list.


----------



## SuperMAG

robert turnbull said:


> I've been enjoying 11.11 myself
> 
> Earbuds:
> 
> ...


 
 where did u get the pt15 and the 128gb micro sd???


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

Yeah I'm just gonna get the 64, realised I really don't have any capable of pushing the 500ohm to its full potential.


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

I also ordered the Qian39 because it was £3.87 lol.


----------



## teston

springbay said:


> No problem. While you answered I edited my previous post
> "Edit. If you feel uncertain. Try the K's 64 with white cable, to get a taste. The K's 64 with black cable sound much thinner with weaker bass than the white cable."
> 
> I don't know if the same goes for the 500, that the more expensive model sound better than the cheaper one. I have only experience with the more expensive model.


 
 Thanks for your impressions. Can't wait for both of them to arrive.
 My inventory is almost all dark sound signature. It's not hurt to try out some nice bright buds


----------



## ClieOS

danneq said:


> Well, how about you buy my pair of QFred for $200 including registered shipping (that would be about $20). Then I'll buy a new pair of QFred. I'll lose some money in the process, but it would be cool if some more opinions on QFred could be heard.
> 
> You might not like it, but seeing that you put Sennheiser MX985 and Blox TM7 at the top of your list we might have some preference for sound signature in common.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks, but my money has already committed elsewhere.


----------



## Robert Turnbull

supermag said:


> where did u get the pt15 and the 128gb micro sd???




The PT15 from AK Store

The sd card
MIXZA TOHAOLL Micro SD Memory Card Colormix 8GB 16GB 32GB 64GB 128GB Class10 Colorful Series Storage Device for Smartphone
 http://s.aliexpress.com/vuiMrmAr 
(from AliExpress Android)
Its got a 5 star rating for 170 orders so i am giving it a shot


----------



## kim7135

Jumped on the 11.11 sale, and ordered myself a Boarseman MX98S as well as a Seahf LD-3.0 150ohms.
  
 Hopefully these two will step the game up compared to my Monk+ and E100, which I both love for different types of music.
  
 Really gotta thank everyone for posting in this thread, as it really opened up the world of earbuds for me, which I previously deemed as inferior in terms of quality in comparison to IEMs.


----------



## fairx

I'll pass on 11.11. Suddenly there's spike in currency change today. Bummer.


----------



## kim7135

fairx said:


> I'll pass on 11.11. Suddenly there's spike in currency change today. Bummer.


 
 USD1 = RM4.42 as of right now...pretty crazy. Never seen the numbers so high. But I still bought two...hopefully it's worth it!


----------



## Nachash

How's the Faaeal 64ohms?


----------



## SuperMAG

robert turnbull said:


> The PT15 from AK Store
> 
> The sd card
> MIXZA TOHAOLL Micro SD Memory Card Colormix 8GB 16GB 32GB 64GB 128GB Class10 Colorful Series Storage Device for Smartphone
> ...


 
  
 thanks bro, i was hoping it was samsung sd.


----------



## Holypal

kim7135 said:


> USD1 = RM4.42 as of right now...pretty crazy. Never seen the numbers so high. But I still bought two...hopefully it's worth it!


 
  
 Wrong post.  edited.


----------



## Ira Delphic

***** PT15 vs. Monk+ A<->B testing*
 Last nigh I compared the PT15 and MP by using a "Y" cable - both plugged in at once so easy to switch. The source is an LG V10.
  
 If one word were to describe each, MP - warm and PT15 - bright. The PT15 will appeal to those of us that appreciate treble, and the high end is crisp and clear, without being sibilant.  Mids and lows/bass - I would characterize as balanced. Maybe closer to v shaped. The mids aren't recessed IMO. The area that the PT15 shines is on separation and very good resolution. On instruments - the bass guitar was clear and stood out in the mix, vocal harmonies - on a few challenging tracks ability to discern the two voices in the harmony very good. The MP is no slouch, and only when AB testing does is it become apparent that the PT15 is a step or two better in terms of resolution. At least one step.
  
 This morning I was listening in shuffle mode, a John Coletrane track popped up. When the snare drums came on 10 seconds into the song, I thought there was something going on in the room, and removed the PT15 from my ears! It has a live sound. I'm not a basshead, and the PT15 certainly isn't bass heavy, so this is my preferred sound signature. A concern is if will hold up to pleasurable listening for extended periods of time. The sound of the MP and PT15 is very different. For extended listening I'd probably use the MP, and for critical listening - high fidelity, well produced tracks, I'd use the PT15. The PT15 revealed more flaws in poorly recorded music.
  
 I don't have any high end earbuds at this time, so take my opinions with a grain of salt, and best to wait until more experienced folks provide their opinions to make a purchase decision. But I think **** did a great job. It must be that graphene driver that grabbed our attention in the first place 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 Note the MP is one button. On my one buttons I use the same color foam on each side and rely on the button to indicate right. The **** has a red and blue band. Red and blue foams are included but two colors are really not necessary. The donuts are black.


----------



## Nachash

robert turnbull said:


> The PT15 from AK Store
> 
> The sd card
> MIXZA TOHAOLL Micro SD Memory Card Colormix 8GB 16GB 32GB 64GB 128GB Class10 Colorful Series Storage Device for Smartphone
> ...


 

 That's a good SD card, I bought one months ago and it's fast.
 Bought the 64 though, still working fine.


----------



## Ira Delphic

nachash said:


> robert turnbull said:
> 
> 
> > The PT15 from AK Store
> ...


 
  
 For use in a smartphone I would only use a premium sd card from a reliable source. It's not worth it.
  
 I must resist getting a backup PT15!


----------



## Holypal

ira delphic said:


> For use in a smartphone I would only use a premium sd card from a reliable source. It's not worth it.
> 
> I must resist getting a backup PT15!


 
  
 co-resist.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

fairx said:


> I'll pass on 11.11. Suddenly there's spike in currency change today. Bummer.


 
 Our currency is going to the dogs lol


----------



## Nachash

So there's a difference between the two K's64? I cheapened out in October and bought the black one for $6 instead of the white one for $8


----------



## Danneq

clieos said:


> Thanks, but my money has already committed elsewhere.


 


 Okay. Well, at least I save $60...

 ... Which I used right now. HP650 for $70.40 from *that* seller is pretty good!

 However, this was money that I got for stuff that I sold and that I should have put in my savings account...


 Only 2 earbuds now that I think I really need to buy: K's 500 ohm and Shozy Stardust. (and later VE Nirvana and the new Blox flagship)


 I feel a bit like a kid at xmas with all the earbuds coming.

 Received a mail from Herry of Cypherus who has assembled my pair of CampFred and is doing QC with Cypherus' new modded version of XDuoo X3:







 If anyone is interested in the modded XDuoo one I can ask him about it. Since the housing is custom made from copper and the inside is modded as well, I suppose the price is a lot higher than the standard X3.

 I'm happy with my small harem of vintage DAPs. Used the rockboxed iRiver H340 today and it really is a great DAP.


----------



## springbay

nachash said:


> So there's a difference between the two K's64? I cheapened out in October and bought the black one for $6 instead of the white one for $8


 
 Black cable didn't impress me much, while white cable sounded good. On the other hand, black cable was about 120 cm and white cable was around 145 cm.
 Seems you can't have it all with the K's 64. Or K is suggesting you should use black cable on the go, and white cable at home. Or perhaps white cable is for really tall people.


----------



## Ira Delphic

springbay said:


> nachash said:
> 
> 
> > So there's a difference between the two K's64? I cheapened out in October and bought the black one for $6 instead of the white one for $8
> ...


 
  
 Oh great. I have K's 64 with black cable in transit.


----------



## vapman

I want that copper X3 so bad but I also know as soon as I hear the price I'm going to flip right over on my head.
  
  
 I learned Elibuds released a Re:Zero earbud in pink and light blue, description "tuned for Ani-song". So I want to hear it really badly. However the Re:Zero sold out on their taobao nearly immediately and I've been waiting for news of their next  Ani-song bud. Anyone know more about these?


----------



## Raketen

vapman said:


> I want that copper X3 so bad but I also know as soon as I hear the price I'm going to flip right over on my head.




I just buy the upgrade kit instead:


----------



## springbay

ira delphic said:


> Oh great. I have K's 64 with black cable in transit.


 

 Perhaps you can re-cable or mod them in some way. I have too many great sounding buds to bother with modding them.
 But it is odd that they release such a poor sounding bud when the white cable sound really good and the 500 are quite terrific.


----------



## Nachash

springbay said:


> Perhaps you can re-cable or mod them in some way. I have too many great sounding buds to bother with modding them.
> But it is odd that they release such a poor sounding bud when the white cable sound really good and the 500 are quite terrific.


 

 That's a shame, +1 to wasted earbuds. Along with the TY32


----------



## fairx

kim7135 said:


> USD1 = RM4.42 as of right now...pretty crazy. Never seen the numbers so high. But I still bought two...hopefully it's worth it!







audionewbi3 said:


> Our currency is going to the dogs lol



I'm thinking of getting a good dac or maybe **** earbud. Oh well. 

But as a consolation I bought cheap USB audio instead. Lol I wanted to stock a few of same model because local store don't carry them anymore. 

I just realized how good this little usb sound interface when paired with o2 amp + wall plug. Usually when Im at work I use this USB audio as my built-in sound card replacement. They sound very lean and fatiguing. My guess is that the output power too high and not clean. It distort the sound when paired with O2 amp on high gain. But I remember reading on nwavguy blog about pairing o2 with high output source. You need to use it with power plug instead of internal batteries. 

When I plug in the power suddenly the sound became very clean and very very open. Non fatiguing at all. All the congestion that I used to feel with ty 320 now nonexistent. I thought it was just a fluke so I put my ty 32. Now ty sound very open like tomahawk. All the ty hot treble is now fixed. Depth is amazing. Everything sound improved. Ok maybe bass is tamed a bit. But instead of being pronounced they're much more natural and layered nicely. 

I have to say "what the heck". I bought it for 3usd at local shop and the case literally fall apart on day one. Been neglected for 3 months for behaving very lean. 

I take back all my hot treble issue with ty.

As a comparison I belive it sounds better than fiio Q1 dac, my Samsung with Wolfson and iPhone 5, 6


----------



## purplesun

VE Monk Candy sale news.
  
 Check their facebook for details:
 https://www.facebook.com/veclancom/photos/a.1812063892342955.1073741828.1647981012084578/1837607276455283/?type=3&theater


----------



## tinkertailor

purplesun said:


> VE Monk Candy sale news.
> 
> Check their facebook for details:
> https://www.facebook.com/veclancom/photos/a.1812063892342955.1073741828.1647981012084578/1837607276455283/?type=3&theater


 
 What is a VE Monk Candy? And they say to keep an eye for it, where does one do that? Is it just  a recabelled monk? Is it the same price?


----------



## vapman

tinkertailor said:


> What is a VE Monk Candy? And they say to keep an eye for it, where does one do that? Is it just  a recabelled monk? Is it the same price?


 

 $10 vs $5 and it has a premium cable. whether it sounds any different than a normal monk+ is up for debate... but they are awesome.
  
 edit: hey it's my 6000th post


----------



## magitka27

Good morning from Indonesia everyone !!! My asura 2.0 reached 30hrs burn in this morning hahaha i love it so much (eventhough im a bit dissapointed i found a cheaper ting and seahf ld 4.0 400ohm are placed for sale in local store for around $70 T.T 

Now playing : utada hikaru - manatsu no tooriame


----------



## gemmoglock

brandon7s said:


> Oh, I didnt see the S version of the ATE in the store that I ordered all of the others from (all this stuff was bought at the same store; pretty good selection). Is the non-S version much worse?


 
  
 No the ATE and ATES are the same except the S uses a memory loop for the overear portion of the cable.
  
 However the ATR released in 2016 is better in every way to the ATE so you may need to order again soon. 
  
 If you're interested check out my review of the ZS3!


----------



## Sp12er3

Morning from here too  still loving my Tomahawk and am not looking for an upgrade in any near future.


----------



## emusic13

Difference in sound between Rose Masya and Mojito? Worth extra $50?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

magitka27 said:


> Good morning from Indonesia everyone !!! My asura 2.0 reached 30hrs burn in this morning hahaha i love it so much (eventhough im a bit dissapointed i found a cheaper ting and seahf ld 4.0 400ohm are placed for sale in local store for around $70 T.T
> 
> Now playing : utada hikaru - manatsu no tooriame


 
 Good choice and good song


----------



## AudioNewbi3

fairx said:


> I'm thinking of getting a good dac or maybe **** earbud. Oh well.
> 
> But as a consolation I bought cheap USB audio instead. Lol I wanted to stock a few of same model because local store don't carry them anymore.
> 
> ...


 
 Which DAC is that? where did you buy it? Jaben?


----------



## audio123

ballog said:


> Zen 2 ($140) vs HD6XX (apprx $240) - which do you think is a better investment (longevity, value for money - all other factors aside)?


cans are on a different playing field


----------



## fairx

audionewbi3 said:


> Which DAC is that? where did you buy it? Jaben?


 
 no bro. it's a generic usb audio bought at local computer shop for less than RM20. my onboard sound card bust and I need replacement to use with my antique Altec Lansing speaker at work.
  

 However, the sound card is just nasty by itself. but paired with o2 amp at high gain with wall plug (aka desktop mode) is something different. I suspect it's cannot compete with common dac out there but to make my point; my TY 32 and 320 no longer sound hot in 5k area. I tried with Q1, Q1 still have 5k hotness. my usb sound cleaner and more open than my samsung wolfson or iphone overall. overall separation and depth also better.
  
 I tried with my usual suspect track: https://open.spotify.com/user/myfairx/playlist/7lfksYbLB5iWS4zy60WE21
 Future world music: Angels and demon (super clean and open)
 Chesky Hight centre test: accurate depth and space 
 Chesky festival te deum: depth and space increasing
 Kader Japonais: Affaire Classe, no sibilance, bass layering
 Sting Desert Rose: very little sibilance (usually very prone)
  
 also thanks to this I can now differentiate mp3 160vbr which I failed abx before.
  
 again, my point is: TY 32 and 320 is capable better than I expected. I will still buy a proper dac in the future though. *scales falls*


----------



## BloodyPenguin

The *Toneking TY2* arrived a few days ago.  In that time I have spent playing with fit and burn-in.
  
 I have not had time for a proper photo-shoot, but I will share a few quick pics I took.
  
 The housings are HUGE!  Here is a side by side with the *Tomahawk* for reference:


  
  
  
 Also, because they are so big and heavy, fit can be an issue.  So I double bag them.
  
 I put a thick black foam cover on first, then I add one of the VE light foams on top.

 This gives it a good thickness, without changing the tone much.
  

  
  
  
 Sound wise, even with a good fit, they are still a little light on bass.  There is a good amount of detail in the upper frequencies. 
  
 I want to burn them in a little more and then start to compare them to other earbuds, more so the Ting to see how they stack up.
  
 --


----------



## music4mhell

bloodypenguin said:


> The *Toneking TY2* arrived a few days ago.  In that time I have spent playing with fit and burn-in.
> 
> I have not had time for a proper photo-shoot, but I will share a few quick pics I took.
> 
> ...


Ting won in my test..


----------



## BloodyPenguin

music4mhell said:


> Ting won in my test..


 

 Ting is winning mine so far as well, but I just want to spend more time with the TY2 to make sure.
  
 --


----------



## teston

bloodypenguin said:


> Ting is winning mine so far as well, but I just want to spend more time with the TY2 to make sure.
> 
> --



How are these two compare to Tomahawk?


----------



## leobigfield

TY-HI-Z 150Ohm at $16 is it a good deal? Worth the price?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

teston said:


> How are these two compare to Tomahawk?


 

 Ting - Controlled, smooth and accurate. 
  
 TY2 - Brighter, crispy details, but not as smooth.
  
 Tomahawk - Decent bass, fun mids and a bit on the wild side.  Hard to explain.


----------



## Raketen

bloodypenguin said:


> Ting - Controlled, smooth and accurate.
> 
> TY2 - Brighter, crispy details, but not as smooth.
> 
> Tomahawk - Decent bass, fun mids and a bit on the wild side.  Hard to explain.




I'm finding TKY2 mostly nice for vocal-centric and acoustic instruments, though for classical and jazz I usually prefer more bass presence, but it does seem decent extended just not loud, and nice presentationally. Would you say this is close to your experience?

Some modern pop and electronic can sound very nice as well, as long as it isn't too aggressively loud or compressed, where I start to notice weird timbre or occasionally outright distortion.... makes me wonder if other sets sound like this? maybe it's just an "uneven spot" in how the dual driver interacts like I think vapman suggested to me earlier.


----------



## vapman

Yes that would have been me complaining about dual drivers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 My first Mistertao order is all purchased though, just waiting on it all to arrive to their location so I can have it forwarded here. super excited! I got a Yinman HiFi (音曼) 醇净2.0 150ohm, Vido (mic cable version), red Qian25 (because the pictures of it with an Asuka) and Sanyo EAH-Z3E.

  


Spoiler: Lots of pics from Taobao




 Yinman 150ohm
  

  
 Vido
  


 Sanyo
  

  
 Qian25
  
 saw this which confirms my suspicions about where the name QianYun came from...!


----------



## oopeteroo

Uuuurghhhh 

I ended up with following on my Ali express cart

**** pt15
Musicmaker tp16
Boarseman mx98s
Tomahawk
Qian25
Qian39
Monk plus

But sadly some 11.11 deals ended early and I didn't make it in time to order then all........ maybe i should be happy lol no earbuds for me lol


----------



## tinkertailor

vapman said:


> red Qian25 (because the pictures of it with an Asuka) and Sanyo EAH-Z3E.


 
 Curious about those two buds. What led you to the Sanyo. I like the retro look of it. The speaker casing is odd. It looks old and cheap on the surface. have you heard it before?


----------



## vapman

tinkertailor said:


> Curious about those two buds. What led you to the Sanyo. I like the retro look of it. The speaker casing is odd. It looks old and cheap on the surface. have you heard it before?


 

 Never. Saw @ClieOS added it to his page 1 list of buds he got, and I asked a few pages ago and got some info about it from him. usually am not disappointed when picking up stuff ClieOS gets...  you can see it has a space in his list right above the Hifiman ES100, which I liked a lot, and to be honest, I never saw a Sanyo earbud in my life, and wanted to give it a try. At $4.26 there is not much to lose. Plus it is supposedly a made in japan 300 ohm driver.
  
 Other people have posted about the Qian25 but i have never heard it and know nothing about how it will sound.


----------



## luedriver

looking for the cheap 64ohm rose, but can't find it on aliexpress or penon
  
 is it too early?


----------



## teston

bloodypenguin said:


> Ting - Controlled, smooth and accurate.
> 
> TY2 - Brighter, crispy details, but not as smooth.
> 
> Tomahawk - Decent bass, fun mids and a bit on the wild side.  Hard to explain.



Thanks. Ting is definitely more suitable for me. I like smooth but detail sound


----------



## Frederick Wang

ira delphic said:


> ***** PT15 vs. Monk+ A<->B testing*
> Last nigh I compared the PT15 and MP by using a "Y" cable - both plugged in at once so easy to switch. The source is an LG V10.
> 
> If one word were to describe each, MP - warm and PT15 - bright. The PT15 will appeal to those of us that appreciate treble, and the high end is crisp and clear, without being sibilant.  Mids and lows/bass - I would characterize as balanced. Maybe closer to v shaped. The mids aren't recessed IMO. The area that the PT15 shines is on separation and very good resolution. On instruments - the bass guitar was clear and stood out in the mix, vocal harmonies - on a few challenging tracks ability to discern the two voices in the harmony very good. The MP is no slouch, and only when AB testing does is it become apparent that the PT15 is a step or two better in terms of resolution. At least one step.
> ...


 
 I did that several times too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Great review, by the way


----------



## ProspektFi

I tried to resist, and I failed. Bought **** PT15 with silver cable and Auglamour RX-1 for 21,40 EUR (thanks to coupons). I'm too curious to hear different sounding buds and compare them to Qian39 (in transit) and Monk Candy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Brandon7s

gemmoglock said:


> No the ATE and ATES are the same except the S uses a memory loop for the overear portion of the cable.
> 
> However the ATR released in 2016 is better in every way to the ATE so you may need to order again soon.
> 
> If you're interested check out my review of the ZS3!




Good review; if I can deal with IEMs comfort, fit, and isolation (the high isolation bring what I dislike about IEMs in general) and find the KZs that I have coming in to be a step in the right direction, I'll definitely order both the ATR and the ZS3. These are so inexpensive that I would've even bother waiting on a sale!


----------



## Brandon7s

leobigfield said:


> TY-HI-Z 150Ohm at $16 is it a good deal? Worth the price?




 I think it's well worth the money. In my opinion they are a straight up upgrade from the Monk+, with a slightly more bass-heavy sound, though the highs reach further than the monks so they aren't slacking in the treble department either. I like the quality cable, too.


----------



## vapman

Sony HPM-64 from ebay.... Has a weird j-cable! Neat but the included extension cable ends in one of the early 2000's style cell phone connectors. So this might be worth a recable. Need to listen though.


----------



## vapman

So, after a day with the HPM-64, it's a lot better than the HPM-62. lol. Does not seem as straightforward to open it up, and not in a huge rush as I have a nice lightweight 2' long extension cable to use with the 3.5mm plug.
  
 At first seemed a bit echoish, like original Monk, but that has mostly gone away with a couple hours' use. Good balanced sound, exceptionally good for chiptunes. Treble might be slightly rolled off to some, but no more than Cygnus is. I think it is more dynamic than Cygnus though.
  
 I think it is a quality bud worth re-visiting. At least for now, my HPM-62 have nothing special to offer and aren't getting much use here, however the HPM-64 has a nice bass heavy signature typical of Sony Extra Bass products (IEM, headphone Extra Bass all share a similar signature). A surprisingly neutral sound with massive bass-ability. Really fun to crank up 70hz and lower on this earbud. It doesn't go as low as some others like Qian39 and I think Qian39 is even a bit more bassy as well. the bass is more controlled on the HPM-64, still has a great amount of presence, depth and soundstage, just wish it could go deeper.
  
 I found it came in 3 colors. I like the black and orange more than the silver I have of course! If it stands the test of time I will probably consider putting a nice cable on it. it is quite a promising bud and I am eager to pop it open and see what the driver looks like, because it sounds like a slightly more neutral, flat, less energetic but crisper Cygnus....
  

  
 Cool buds. I like em so far. Hope they continue to stand out in my collection. Anyone else got these?
  


 This is how chill I am listening to Genesis & SNES chiptunes on my HPM-64.


----------



## jant71

It appears I had them in 2013


----------



## vapman

So, after pitting the day long burned in HPM 64 against my other buds.... It's nearly impossible to tell the difference between it and my Koss cable modded Qian39!

So I guess if you were curious about the sound of that vs the koss modded q39, you could just get a HPM 64 



(not exactly the same - Sony is more intimate but smaller soundstage & flatter, modded Qian39 has smoother/better balance and better stage)

E: fixed typo


----------



## tinkertailor

Hey vapman, you seem pretty big on the Qian39. Would you say that is the best deal going in buds right now? I already ordered one a ocuple weeks back (so cheap). Where would you rank it on a list of buds like Clieos All the hype over that has me super interestd(i guess ill findout soon anyways)


----------



## Frederick Wang

I just checked out Heavenly Sound's facebook page
 https://www.facebook.com/pg/heavenlysoundsjkt/shop/?rid=123476048091834&rt=6
  
 Concerto is no longer listed, Cadenza is now the most-highly priced, Has Cadenza replaced Concerto to be their current flagship? 
  
 ---------------
  
 Never mind, I found this post
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/12630#post_12956623


----------



## ClieOS

frederick wang said:


> I just checked out Heavenly Sound's facebook page
> https://www.facebook.com/pg/heavenlysoundsjkt/shop/?rid=123476048091834&rt=6
> 
> Concerto is no longer listed, Cadenza is now the most-highly priced, Has Cadenza replaced Concerto to be their current flagship?
> ...


 
  
 AFAIK, Concerto was never listed on FB even after it is available. You just have to asked them vie PM.


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

Super pleased with my Fareal 64ohm v2. Very nice sound, bass extends quite well and is very tight, treble is very smooth and at a good level, not too dark like the Zen 2.0. Only issue is the vocals are a little on the thin side, still very good though. They are a far better earbud than the Monk+. Anyone know if the 300ohm version is an improvement over the 64ohm?


----------



## Frederick Wang

clieos said:


> AFAIK, Concerto was never listed on FB even after it is available. You just have to asked them vie PM.


 
 Thank you, sir!


----------



## Retrias

I have a question regarding the rose masya , how do I tell from left and right on the earbud itself ?


----------



## vapman

tinkertailor said:


> Hey vapman, you seem pretty big on the Qian39. Would you say that is the best deal going in buds right now? I already ordered one a ocuple weeks back (so cheap). Where would you rank it on a list of buds like Clieos All the hype over that has me super interestd(i guess ill findout soon anyways)




I think it is probably the most competitive bud next to the Monk+. I don't think anyone would say the TY 32 is better than a Monk+ in terms of balanced or natural sound, but the 39 is really fun and wins out personally on that. Some people say the same of the TY 32 vs MP. I hate the TY 32 and know thats a lot of people's go to Monk alternative,


----------



## Willber

vapman said:


> tinkertailor said:
> 
> 
> > Hey vapman, you seem pretty big on the Qian39. Would you say that is the best deal going in buds right now? I already ordered one a ocuple weeks back (so cheap). Where would you rank it on a list of buds like Clieos All the hype over that has me super interestd(i guess ill findout soon anyways)
> ...


 
  
 I think you have the TY 32 v2. I prefer the v1 for its deeper bass and bigger soundstage. Here is my ranking of the buds I currently own:
  
 TY 32 v1
 Qian39
 EO320
 TY 32 v2
 SHE3800
 Monk+ (original and Darth)
 RX-1
  
 The top three are almost interchangeable dependent on music choice, as are the next three. The RX-1 stands out as being last for my preferences. But I use EQ so can alter the signatures to my liking.


----------



## zabunny94

i find the ty hi-z 32 to be non pleasant sounding, sometimes get peaky and the vocal kinda weird(don't know how to explain it, but it feels like the singer get their nose pinched or something).

also it's weird that you guys talking about that philips she3800(not even sure if its genuine lol) while ignoring Vido earbuds which around the same price as philips. and it sounds similar to the regular monk, which has more non fatiguing sound than philips and a great alternative for people who missing out the original monk


----------



## vapman

Willber you are correct, i only own and know the V2.

My k's 64 and she3800 are only a couple days away each, super excited to get to hear those

zabunny94 i finally bought a Vido the other week. BloodyPenguin previously stated his Vido have the best bass of all his buds!


----------



## springbay

zombiewinegum said:


> Anyone know if the 300ohm version is an improvement over the 64ohm?


 
  
 If you are asking about the DIY version at the See you again store. They sounded really poor when I got them.They stayed in my ear bud grave yard for a few months, until I one day decided to mod them:
 1. Put one Monk+ thin foam inside each housing - The bass got super tight and powerful, but the mids and highs were still rather poor.
 2. Added cotton in the middle vent holes - the bass got tamed (still sounding good tho), while the mids and highs came front in a very sweet manner.
  
 They are now one of my favorite buds and I use them for commuting to work.
 Since they are DIY, I don't know if the quality control is lacking, or if it's just my pair that shows this behavior. But I can't recommend them unless you are willing to mod them.


----------



## Willber

zabunny94 said:


> i find the ty hi-z 32 to be non pleasant sounding, sometimes get peaky and the vocal kinda weird(don't know how to explain it, but it feels like the singer get their nose pinched or something).


 
  
 Which version do you have? I don't recognise your problem in either but they are different.


----------



## Brandon7s

retrias said:


> I have a question regarding the rose masya , how do I tell from left and right on the earbud itself ?


 

 The buds are the same, the cable will have an L and an R at the point of the connector though. That's the only way to tell the difference. I recommend using different colored foams on each tip so you can tell them apart.


----------



## Willber

brandon7s said:


> retrias said:
> 
> 
> > I have a question regarding the rose masya , how do I tell from left and right on the earbud itself ?
> ...


 
  
 On some of my IEMs I used to tie a knot in the left cable.


----------



## Retrias

brandon7s said:


> The buds are the same, the cable will have an L and an R at the point of the connector though. That's the only way to tell the difference. I recommend using different colored foams on each tip so you can tell them apart.


 
 my question is more like on the which side of the cables should be facing forward? Would the L and R be outward or inward


----------



## Brandon7s

retrias said:


> my question is more like on the which side of the cables should be facing forward? Would the L and R be outward or inward




Doesn't matter, from what I can tell. I like the text facing outward though some it's easier to see.


----------



## vapman

brandon7s said:


> Doesn't matter, from what I can tell. I like the text facing outward though some it's easier to see.


 

 Noticed you have an E-MU 1820 in your sig. great gear! i love E-MU! 0202, 0204, 0404 USB and 1616/1616m for PCI(e) here! Always wanted a 1820 but never got one. One day will buy one that needs a recapping for cheap and fix it up.


----------



## Brandon7s

vapman said:


> Noticed you have an E-MU 1820 in your sig. great gear! i love E-MU! 0202, 0204, 0404 USB and 1616/1616m for PCI(e) here! Always wanted a 1820 but never got one. One day will buy one that needs a recapping for cheap and fix it up.




 It served me well for many years! Great piece of hardware. Still have it, but I built a new computer and do t have a full-sized old school PCI slot so its sitting around unused for now. Might build another one with some spare parts in order to make use of it again.


----------



## vapman

brandon7s said:


> It served me well for many years! Great piece of hardware. Still have it, but I built a new computer and do t have a full-sized old school PCI slot so its sitting around usnused for now. Might build another one with some spare parts in order to make use of it again.


 
 PCI Express cards do exist, although they don't come up on eBay all that often. I have one so i can easily use it with newer machines, plus that card by itself is plenty good if you just need digital/optical in/out. That said, you can still use it with your modern PC's digital output... just plug it into the either of the digital/optical ins!
  
 won't continue to take it OT with E-MU talk so feel free to pm me if you have any qeustions.


----------



## oopeteroo

Anyone know a good earbud with soft but durable cable ? That's is not plastic covered ?


----------



## vapman

oopeteroo said:


> Anyone know a good earbud with soft but durable cable ? That's is not plastic covered ?


 

 Not sure what you mean? Pretty much anything but a braided TY or Seahf should be okay, unless I misunderstand you? Is the Monk+ cable not good to you?


----------



## golov17

retrias said:


> my question is more like on the which side of the cables should be facing forward? Would the L and R be outward or inward


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I've had the ***** PT15* for a few days now.
  
 For the $8 I spent (no cables), I must say it is well worth it.  Build quality is tough and impressive. 
  
 Sound signature is clear and crisp.  With a focus on mids and highs.  Bass is light, but not completely absent.  I can hear a touch of sub-bass in the distance.
  
  
 Here are a few photos I took of it, with the _MEE Audio Pinnacle P1_ cables:
  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  
 --


----------



## mochill

Was guessing it would sound extended and flat


----------



## oopeteroo

vapman said:


> Not sure what you mean? Pretty much anything but a braided TY or Seahf should be okay, unless I misunderstand you? Is the Monk+ cable not good to you?



I'm looking for something like nylon braided cable


----------



## Willber

oopeteroo said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > Not sure what you mean? Pretty much anything but a braided TY or Seahf should be okay, unless I misunderstand you? Is the Monk+ cable not good to you?
> ...


 
 The EO320 has a nylon braided cable from the jack to the splitter and is longer than usual. The earbud cables are normal rubbery plastic.


----------



## gwompki

zabunny94 said:


> i find the ty hi-z 32 to be non pleasant sounding, sometimes get peaky and the vocal kinda weird(don't know how to explain it, but it feels like the singer get their nose pinched or something).
> 
> also it's weird that you guys talking about that philips she3800(not even sure if its genuine lol) while ignoring Vido earbuds which around the same price as philips. and it sounds similar to the regular monk, which has more non fatiguing sound than philips and a great alternative for people who missing out the original monk




I'm not familiar with Vido. Where can you purchase them?


----------



## gwompki

I picked up an Agptek M20 (Benjie s5) DAP and the earbuds that came with it are surprisingly good.


----------



## Raketen

oopeteroo said:


> Anyone know a good earbud with soft but durable cable ? That's is not plastic covered ?




Closest thing I can think of is Joinhandmade, who wrap their cables with colorful string, but they might only make IEM.

You can also buy cloth cable protector, but I am not sure what brands to look for.


----------



## ClieOS

Talks about 1MORE - you guys should know that their new piezoelectric ceramic + dynamic hybrid earbud E1008 already hits the market in China a week ago, but only limits to their JingDong store. JingDing (JD.com) is kind fo like a mix of Taobao and Amazon style web store, but they don't ship oversea and even using a buying agent is not easy (as almost all of them operate in Chinese).


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> Talks about 1MORE - you guys should know that their new piezoelectric ceramic + dynamic hybrid earbud E1008 already hits the market in China a week ago, but only limits to their JingDong store. JingDing (JD.com) is kind fo like a mix of Taobao and Amazon style web store, but they don't ship oversea and even using a buying agent is not easy (as almost all of them operate in Chinese).


any pics, plz


----------



## ClieOS

see more pics here


----------



## teston

clieos said:


> see more pics here



Omg. Can't wait for them to hit AE.


----------



## tinkertailor

clieos said:


> Talks about 1MORE - you guys should know that their new piezoelectric ceramic + dynamic hybrid earbud E1008 already hits the market in China a week ago, but only limits to their JingDong store. JingDing (JD.com) is kind fo like a mix of Taobao and Amazon style web store, but they don't ship oversea and even using a buying agent is not easy (as almost all of them operate in Chinese).


 
 Are these supposed to be awesome? What is cool about them? Are they expensive type buds? "piezoelectric ceramic + dynamic hybrid earbud" sounds so cooll lol


----------



## ld100

clieos said:


> see more pics here


 
  
  
 What price range do they fall into?


----------



## kartik7405

ld100 said:


> What price range do they fall into?


 
 80-90$ i guess from current pricing.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Just ordered Shozy Stardust


----------



## mochill

tayyab pirzada said:


> Just ordered Shozy Stardust


Congrats bro


----------



## golov17

ld100 said:


> What price range do they fall into?


----------



## ClieOS

tinkertailor said:


> Are these supposed to be awesome? What is cool about them? Are they expensive type buds? "piezoelectric ceramic + dynamic hybrid earbud" sounds so cooll lol




I will know in a few days. For now, your guess is as good as mine.




ld100 said:


> What price range do they fall into?



Most likely 1more will price it at $99 when it hits international markets.


----------



## haiku

clieos said:


> I will know in a few days. For now, your guess is as good as mine.
> Most likely 1more will price it at $99 when it hits international markets.


 

 1More USA just recently told me, they´re not sure yet if the 1008 will ever be sold outside Asia.....


----------



## golov17

haiku said:


> 1More USA just recently told me, they´re not sure yet if the 1008 will ever be sold outside Asia.....


 that's sucks


----------



## Robert Turnbull

I wonder if this store is legit:
  
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/xiaomi-1MORE-E1008-Hybird-Driver-headphone-Hybrid-Unit-earphone-HIFI-stereo-sound-monitor-earbud-with-mic/32768883125.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.1.lg9QrN&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10037_10032_10077,searchweb201603_1&btsid=34beee2a-0863-4cb8-9be1-08295e952b6c


----------



## vapman

robert turnbull said:


> I wonder if this store is legit:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/xiaomi-1MORE-E1008-Hybird-Driver-headphone-Hybrid-Unit-earphone-HIFI-stereo-sound-monitor-earbud-with-mic/32768883125.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.1.lg9QrN&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10037_10032_10077,searchweb201603_1&btsid=34beee2a-0863-4cb8-9be1-08295e952b6c


 

 Never ordered from them but open for 4 years, lots of feedback and over 98% positive. I'd feel comfortable giving them a shot based on that...


----------



## haiku

golov17 said:


> that's sucks


 

 Not really. I´ve already found my endgame earbud. The 1008 looks beautiful though....


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> clieos said:
> 
> 
> > I will know in a few days. For now, your guess is as good as mine.
> ...


 
 But you get your hands on those for sure .. in different routes


----------



## haiku

music4mhell said:


> But you get your hands on those for sure .. in different routes


 

 Yup, I pulled the trigger. I just love the looks.


----------



## Frederick Wang

1more E1008 is now available on Taobao(not official store, but authorized by 1more), priced at 568 rmb, that's 82.7 USD 
 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.16.HboT9u&id=541531882598&ns=1&abbucket=9#detail


----------



## music4mhell

frederick wang said:


> 1more E1008 is now available on Taobao(not official store, though), priced at 568 rmb, that's 82.7 USD
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.16.HboT9u&id=541531882598&ns=1&abbucket=9#detail


 
 That was quite fast .. !!


----------



## kartik7405

robert turnbull said:


> I wonder if this store is legit:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/xiaomi-1MORE-E1008-Hybird-Driver-headphone-Hybrid-Unit-earphone-HIFI-stereo-sound-monitor-earbud-with-mic/32768883125.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.1.lg9QrN&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10037_10032_10077,searchweb201603_1&btsid=34beee2a-0863-4cb8-9be1-08295e952b6c


 
 yes it is.i contacted earlier for 1MORE EO320.


----------



## music4mhell

kartik7405 said:


> robert turnbull said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder if this store is legit:
> ...


 
 I am tempted to buy this 1


----------



## Frederick Wang

I don't understand why... but I just bought a pair. 
  
 I will give my very immature impressions on E1008 when I get them. (guess I will be the first to have them too...)


----------



## vapman

frederick wang said:


> I don't understand why... but I just bought a pair.
> 
> I will give my very immature impressions on E1008 when I get them. (guess I will be the first to have them too...)


 
 I'm excited! You have good taste so I'll be happy to hear your opinions on it. It must be that cool unique driver cover. It looks really nice. I hope it sounds great too.


----------



## Frederick Wang

vapman said:


> I'm excited! You have good taste so I'll be happy to hear your opinions on it. It must be that cool unique driver cover. It looks really nice. I hope it sounds great too.


 
 1more, formerly part of Xiaomi, has this business strategy to price great products significantly lower than peers, that's why Xiaomi, an outsider of Smartphone business, rose to top & changed the game in the first place. So when they come out with something at mid-price range, I kinda have expectations for them. Hope they deliver.


----------



## Townyj

I know i probably shouldnt post it  but if anyone wants a Edimun V3 and Red Demun combo. I can ship to America,drop me a pm  need to cull some of my buds back.


----------



## vapman

frederick wang said:


> 1more, formerly part of Xiaomi, has this business strategy to price great products significantly lower than peers, that's why Xiaomi, an outsider of Smartphone business, rose to top & changed the game in the first place. So when they come out with something at mid-price range, I kinda have expectations for them. Hope they deliver.


 

 yup same here, I have 100% the same experience with Xiaomi. Would love to use one of their phones and would be if I wasn't stuck on CDMA. Oh well. I do use my Mi Square Box 2 daily though. (@HiFiChris wrote a great review on it.... I've been meaning to do one too but it won't possibly be as good)
  
 I will probably get a EO320 sometime and possibly pass on this though, as I am still wary of dual drivers.


----------



## haiku

vapman said:


> yup same here, I have 100% the same experience with Xiaomi. Would love to use one of their phones and would be if I wasn't stuck on CDMA. Oh well. I do use my Mi Square Box 2 daily though. (@HiFiChris wrote a great review on it.... I've been meaning to do one too but it won't possibly be as good)
> 
> I will probably get a EO320 sometime and possibly pass on this though, as I am still wary of dual drivers.


 

 Me too, that´s why I´m also skeptical it will sound better than the EO320. The EO320 has the best balanced sound signature I´ve ever heard, and scales really really well. It sounds bad with the X7, but with my AK300/380amp it shines brightly....
 The 1008 looks awesome though, that´s why I also can´t wait to get my hands on it.


----------



## vapman

haiku said:


> Me too, that´s why I´m also skeptical it will sound better than the EO320. The EO320 has the best balanced sound signature I´ve ever heard, and scales really really well. It sounds bad with the X7, but with my AK300/380amp it shines brightly....
> The 1008 looks awesome though, that´s why I also can´t wait to get my hands on it.


 

 Did you ever heard Hifiman ES100? is EO320 like that? or more similar to something else?


----------



## JASru

The look of 1008 is nice.
 I wonder if it is complicated to recable.
 The stock cable looks ****, especially for the price.


----------



## haiku

vapman said:


> Did you ever heard Hifiman ES100? is EO320 like that? or more similar to something else?


 

 I own the ES100. The EO320 sounds better in every way. More bass, wider and bigger soundstage, smoother highs, liquid mids. It´s no competition really....


----------



## vapman

haiku said:


> I own the ES100. The EO320 sounds better in every way. More bass, wider and bigger soundstage, smoother highs, liquid mids. It´s no competition really....


 

 okay! you've convinced me sir...


----------



## kim7135

When Lee says it's "The last Candy drop" I wonder if it's for this year or forever...


----------



## golov17

kim7135 said:


> When Lee says it's "The last Candy drop" I wonder if it's for this year or forever...


forever


----------



## golov17

**** big one?


----------



## Frederick Wang

golov17 said:


> **** big one?


 
 Never measured them, but they sit more comfortably in my ears than VE Monk(1st Gen)
 Any initial impressions, sir?


----------



## luedriver

gwompki said:


> I picked up an Agptek M20 (Benjie s5) DAP and the earbuds that came with it are surprisingly good.


 
 they look like my sennheiser mx170's


----------



## JASru

Done some reading on piezoelectric transducers. Seems to be a very vulnerable one.
 Even more vulnerable than balanced armature, while being it analogue (though not the same sounding). ]
 The focus gonna be on treble and mids, while  the dynamic driver would work on bass side.
 Looks interesting anyway.


----------



## golov17

frederick wang said:


> Never measured them, but they sit more comfortably in my ears than VE Monk(1st Gen)
> Any initial impressions, sir?


not my pics, sorry


----------



## Trzystatrzy

Which earbuds I should buy if I want upgrade for my Monk+? Should be as small as yuin earbuds and should have little less warm on midrange. Budget 100 $


----------



## Willber

trzystatrzy said:


> Which earbuds I should buy if I want upgrade for my Monk+? Should be as small as yuin earbuds and should have little less warm on midrange. Budget 100 $


 
  
 Try the Qian39 for $5. Seriously.


----------



## jant71

vapman said:


> okay! you've convinced me sir...


 

 Good! I want to hear about Qian 39 vs. EO320.


----------



## Nachash

Where can I get this Vido earbud?


----------



## Saoshyant

Currently, My Rose Masya and K's 64 are here in town and should arrive sometime today.  Also the EO320 and Qian39 were ordered on 11.11, plus the **** PT15 should arrive at some eventual point..  The new 1More also looks interesting, if anything to try out a new driver type, so that might get ordered.  So far so good on me enjoying what I have and not collecting more earphones for now...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

nachash said:


> Where can I get this Vido earbud?


 
  
 I got two pairs from MisterTao.  My first pair was awesome, then my son tried to eat them and destroyed them.
  
 My second pair came with a dead left side driver.  Not sure if it is the cable or not.  MisterTao refused to refund my money.
  
 So, I too want a third Vido earbud, but I don't know where to buy one now.
  
  
 --


----------



## Ira Delphic

bloodypenguin said:


> I've had the ***** PT15* for a few days now.
> 
> For the $8 I spent (no cables), I must say it is well worth it.  Build quality is tough and impressive.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Anyone new to the PT15 keep in mind the current (non introductory price) earbuds only _without cable_ is $15 - the best price I found on Ali. 
  
 Did you get to compare to the Monk+? When I did my comparison I spent literally an hour A<->B the two. To my ears the **** has better resolution - easier to hear each individual instrument and pick out individual singers in a vocal harmony. BUT that doesn't make the PT 15 "better."
  
 During the 11.11. sale I picked up a backup pair, silver cable, I couldn't resist since decent sale price.


----------



## Ira Delphic

I got a surprise delivery just now. E-packet and the tracking didn't even show leaving China, seller NiceHCK. It took them some time for processing but it apparently shipped when the tracking number was issued - which is refreshing.
  

New K's Earphone 64 ohm Balanced High Impedance In Ear Earphone Earbud 64 ohms Earbud Flat Head Plug Earplugs _*Kill Monk Earbud*_
QianYun Qian39
  
 Same case for the K's as the **** PT15 I got. Now I understand why they call it a "buck case" lol.
 The K's has a clip - a really nice thing to have!
  

  
 Tonight I'll give them a listen with the LG V10!


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

ira delphic said:


> I got a surprise delivery just now. E-packet and the tracking didn't even show leaving China, seller NiceHCK. It took them some time for processing but it apparently shipped when the tracking number was issued - which is refreshing.
> 
> 
> New K's Earphone 64 ohm Balanced High Impedance In Ear Earphone Earbud 64 ohms Earbud Flat Head Plug Earplugs _*Kill Monk Earbud*_
> ...


 
 No way! I have both those earbud on order right now lol. Now just to wait :/ Hope you like them.


----------



## Trzystatrzy

willber said:


> trzystatrzy said:
> 
> 
> > Which earbuds I should buy if I want upgrade for my Monk+? Should be as small as yuin earbuds and should have little less warm on midrange. Budget 100 $
> ...



Seriously I will try  something else?


----------



## vapman

bloodypenguin said:


> I got two pairs from MisterTao.  My first pair was awesome, then my son tried to eat them and destroyed them.
> 
> My second pair came with a dead left side driver.  Not sure if it is the cable or not.  MisterTao refused to refund my money.
> 
> ...




Silly Penguin. Vidos are for kids!

I actually dug up the link of the 3 button Vido you posted months ago and used that to buy on mistertao. I could link it again if you want.


----------



## Willber

trzystatrzy said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > trzystatrzy said:
> ...


 
  
 Well, I like the SHE3800 (also $5). It's the same width as the Monk+ but slightly slimmer and more curved. I find it more comfortable and slightly cooler sounding. Some people have had quality issues with it, though - but not a lot of risk for the money.


----------



## golov17

trzystatrzy said:


> Seriously I will try  something else?


Qian25, Boarseman mx98s, TY Hi-Z HP32 for V-sig


----------



## Willber

golov17 said:


> trzystatrzy said:
> 
> 
> > Seriously I will try  something else?
> ...


 
 I agree with the v-sig of the Hi-Z 32 but I EQ that away and it's my current favourite (well, the v1 is) for its deep bass and great soundstage. However, it is not smaller than the Monk+ which is what he was after as well.
  
 How is the Qian25 compared to the Qian39? (which I really like)


----------



## Trzystatrzy

I have 100$, that models are really so good?


----------



## petan970

robert turnbull said:


> I wonder if this store is legit:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/xiaomi-1MORE-E1008-Hybird-Driver-headphone-Hybrid-Unit-earphone-HIFI-stereo-sound-monitor-earbud-with-mic/32768883125.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.1.lg9QrN&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10037_10032_10077,searchweb201603_1&btsid=34beee2a-0863-4cb8-9be1-08295e952b6c




Three months ago I bought 1MORE Triple Driver in this shop. And no problems at all - I received these earphones in the original retail box.


----------



## vapman

Just got K's 64 silver, **** pt15 and two qian25..., which were supposed to be backup qian39. Oh well.


----------



## Trzystatrzy

ok, so i'm going to get this qian39 from this seller
  
 https://pl.aliexpress.com/store/product/Hot-Original-QianYun-Qian39-Bass-In-Ear-Earphone-Dynamic-Flat-Head-Plug-HIFI-Earphone-Free-Shipping/1825606_32664671603.html
  
 cheers!


----------



## Willber

> How is the Qian25 compared to the Qian39? (which I really like)


 
  
 Ah, I've just seen that the Qian25 uses the MX500 shell and I have plenty of those - I think I'll pass. Shame, because the 39 is really small and comfortable.


----------



## vapman

Quick impressions:
  

 K's 64 silver cable is the closest sound to my modded Qian39 and has slightly better overall resolution.
Qian25 has a sound halfway between the K's 64 and Sony HPM-64.  Flatter than the K's 64 or Qian39, more midrange detail I think though, but more intimate sound than either K's, Qian or Sony.
I lost my MMCX cable and can't test my **** yet


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> Silly Penguin. Vidos are for kids!
> 
> I actually dug up the link of the 3 button Vido you posted months ago and used that to buy on mistertao. I could link it again if you want.


 
  
 Oh, I know where to buy it on MisterTao, or any Taobao agent, I just do not want to waste my money on another defective unit.
  
 If I could find it on Aliexpress, or somewhere a little better, I will get a few pairs.
  
 --


----------



## vapman

bloodypenguin said:


> Oh, I know where to buy it on MisterTao, or any Taobao agent, I just do not want to waste my money on another defective unit.
> 
> If I could find it on Aliexpress, or somewhere a little better, I will get a few pairs.
> 
> --


 
  
 Makes sense. I'm hoping my Vido will be working fine, along with the other 3 buds I am getting from Mistertao! (one of which is a Qian25, so I will have 3, unless HCK wants the 2 he sent me back, lol)
  
 The *Qian25* is an awesome bud out of the box and I have high hopes for it after some hours being burned in. It does not have the overpowering bass of the Qian39 and all the beautiful balance of other high end buds.... to be honest I was looking forward to hearing that again today! It will have to wait...  The Qian25 *might be the most Blox-like bud you can buy new right now.*
  
 The K's 64 is very impressive but I can't tell if the treble sounds slightly unnatural or not. It will require further burn in and testing.
  
  
 While I am not a burn in person and never have been, I've noticed a lot of new earbuds out of Asia actually do benefit in noticable ways from between a few hours and a few days (only TY really) burn in, making me think the buds are quite stiff and "raw" out of the machines that manafacture the drivers, and after testing are put in the shells and shipped off.


----------



## Ira Delphic

vapman said:


> bloodypenguin said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, I know where to buy it on MisterTao, or any Taobao agent, I just do not want to waste my money on another defective unit.
> ...


 
  
 I just gave a quick listen to the K's 64 (silver cable) and noted the highs -  not sure if accurate. Colored in some way and pleasingly grainy...
  
 And the cable - l-o-n-g!!!


----------



## vapman

ira delphic said:


> I just gave a quick listen to the K's 64 (silver cable) and noted the highs -  not sure if accurate. Colored in some way and pleasingly grainy...
> 
> And the cable - l-o-n-g!!!


 

 definitely agreed. Almost like the Mojito's strange dual driver tone interestingly enough. will need more listening. Slightly like a musicmaker like that.
  
 Anyway, just found my MMCX cable and hooked the **** up. Damn, no bass at all!  like.... even a tiny bit! too bright for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I think i'll give these away haha.


----------



## Ira Delphic

Yup, treble monster.


----------



## rockingthearies

vapman said:


> definitely agreed. Almost like the Mojito's strange dual driver tone interestingly enough. will need more listening. Slightly like a musicmaker like that.
> 
> Anyway, just found my MMCX cable and hooked the **** up. Damn, no bass at all!  like.... even a tiny bit! too bright for me    I think i'll give these away haha.




Definitely a **** trademark sound signature


----------



## Brandon7s

I just got  my Hi-Z HP-650 earbuds in! Woohoo!
  
 First impressions:
 Nice low end - not bloated, like the 320Ohms sometimes feel, but definitely present enough for my taste.
 Less strident highs than the 320Ohms, which I'm fine with. I can actually wear these without any foams at all, though for the hour I used them today I preferred donuts over no-foam and full-foamies. I can't use the 320Ohms version at all without full foams due to overharsh highs.
 VERY congested and narrow soundstage; however, I expected this since vapman said that these require practically 3 full days of burn-in time before they start to shine, in particular in the soundstage department.
  
 Overall I like the sound. I would say it's similar to a slightly bass-boosted HD598 in it's sound signature so far. I'm putting these on my burn-in station for at least another full 24 hours before putting them on again, though I won't make any real judgment calls until after at least 90 hours of burn-in time.


----------



## vapman

If i focus on the upper treble of the k's 64 i hear a lot of very high pitch hissing on a lot of tracks. Anyone else experiencing this? Its like they have a crazy high upper frequency limit.


----------



## Ira Delphic

ira delphic said:


> I got a surprise delivery just now. E-packet and the tracking didn't even show leaving China, seller NiceHCK. It took them some time for processing but it apparently shipped when the tracking number was issued - which is refreshing.
> 
> 
> New K's Earphone 64 ohm Balanced High Impedance In Ear Earphone Earbud 64 ohms Earbud Flat Head Plug Earplugs _*Kill Monk Earbud*_
> ...


 
  
I got to compare the Qian39, K's 64 silver cable and Senser PT15. Source is LG V10. No burn in. 
-*Qian39* - more bass than I prefer. Good sound-stage and clear and accurate highs. The "bud" is the smallest of the three and the best fit. Ideal candidate for cabling, since the cable is thin and slightly brittle like Philips SHE3800. For the price a real winner!
-*K's 64* - Not as much bass as the Qian 39 and more than the PT15. Highs not quite as precise as either. A good ear bud for the price. The foams are thin or I'm clumsy. I tore one when trying to 
put it on. The "bud" is slightly larger than the Qian39. Still a good fit for my ears. The silver cable is very long and not thick. I was unable to put on the clip, since didn't want to break it. Will give that a shot later. The white plastic shell is matte finish toy plastic material, but nothing wrong with that.
-*Senser PT15* - I still think the best high end and mid precision. It sounds more like studio monitor headphones, a live sound. Better resolution than the Quian39. As has been mentioned, much less bass. The metal shell is substantial, and much heavier than the plastic shell obviously of the Quian39 and K's 64. Try this, on the right ear bud when wearing, place your fingertip at the 1:00 O'clock position. Instant increase in bass. I think the lack of bass is caused by poor seal. As mentioned already (and measured) the "bud" is big. It doesn't tuck over the opening of the ear canal snugly like the Qian39. The cable is the thickest of the three and looks like the best quality,. But I doubt there''s any difference in sound quality.
  
The PT15 fit is far from perfect and they don't stay in my ears when walking on stairs, etc. The design of the MX500 type plastic shell is best for my ears. The Qian39 must be limited to smaller drivers. My guess is most drivers won't fit the unique shell but maybe the DIY thread can confirm that during re-cabling. The metal screen grille might make it difficult to reassemble? I still prefer the live, precise studio sound of the PT15, and don't miss the lack of bass but did boost it using EQ on my LG V10 and it responded satisfactory.
  
All three are fine buds, depending on the type of music being listened to. Perhaps the K's 64 is the best all rounder - balanced sound, except for those that need lots of bass. The winner? For me the PT15, followed ironically by the Qian39 and the K's 64 a close third. For those of you that NEED bass, my guess is that you'll like the Qian 39 more than the K's 64. I need to spend some more time with the K's 64, but as of right now these are my observations. I really have to compare the Monk+ to K's 64 since the K has "_*Kill Monk Earbud" *_in the description. But not right now.


----------



## vapman

Would definitely recommend the qian25 to those who find the 39 to have too much bass but k's and **** to be too bright. Good reviews Ira Delphic


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Would definitely recommend the qian25 to those who find the 39 to have too much bass but k's and **** to be too bright. Good reviews Ira Delphic


+100


----------



## Ira Delphic

vapman said:


> If i focus on the upper treble of the k's 64 i hear a lot of very high pitch hissing on a lot of tracks. Anyone else experiencing this? Its like they have a crazy high upper frequency limit.


 
  
 I noticed that the "s" sounds like "th" on some tracks. Other than that the k's upper treble sounds ok to me. Switching back and forth, I started to hear the "s" on the K's, it was maddening, turns out I had the PT15 in my ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
@vapmanand @golov17 - you convinced me. Going to order a couple pairs of qian25. Thanks!


----------



## golov17

trzystatrzy said:


> I have 100$, that models are really so good?


VE Asura2.0 150 Ohm, BOE (Black Onyx Earbud from Thailand) love it!


----------



## oopeteroo

vapman said:


> Would definitely recommend the qian25 to those who find the 39 to have too much bass but k's and **** to be too bright. Good reviews Ira Delphic


 do u recommend qian39 over qian25 for vocal and Asian pop ?


----------



## vapman

oopeteroo said:


> do u recommend qian39 over qian25 for vocal and Asian pop ?


 

 Yeah, I think it is a little more fun. Qian25 still has nice bass, but not as much as 39. But, 39 has a little bit nicer vocals to me.
  
 Damn, my modded Qian39 sounds so much like the Qian25, I should just mod it back to normal.... or be patient and hope HCK sends me the Qian39 like I should have gotten...!
  
 I decided K's 64 silver sounds like a mini Edimun V3. hehe. same recessed mids and hyper V shape sound.


----------



## vapman

Sorry for double posting but wanted to show off this frankenbud!


I decided i didnt like the K's silver enough... And as much as i loved my Qian39 koss+cotton mod... I didnt need 4 buds with practically the same sound.


But i WAS curious how a q39 would sound with a silver cable.


So i put the K's 64 drivers on the q39 stock cable and the K's silver cable on the q39 and took out the cotton.


Huge bass is back!!! And wow does it sound better than a stock q39 and honestly i don't regret undoing the previous q39 mod because this combo is truly awesome.









I'll call it "[COLOR=A9A9A9]*Kian39*[/COLOR]"  


Silver q39 doesn't have the bass presence of the stock one still, but very very close. But I swear it reverberates deeper and more powerfully. must be the bigger shell.

[rule]
edit: 2 birds killed with 1 iron!  
Koss cable from previous q39 mod put on K's 64 driver, in Qian39 shell. Result: *no more un-natural treble, more relaxed sound and much better bass!!!*


----------



## golov17




----------



## rockingthearies

Anyone know which thread should I go to if I want to sell my earbuds?


----------



## golov17

rockingthearies said:


> Anyone know which thread should I go to if I want to sell my earbuds?


 http://www.head-fi.org/f/6550/headphones-for-sale-trade


----------



## Pasopati

How sound signature/fr ashura 2 compared to zen 2 ? Do the zen 2 really step up in quality of sound?


----------



## golov17

pasopati said:


> How sound signature/fr ashura 2 compared to zen 2 ? Do the zen 2 really step up in quality of sound?


 Asura has a brighter sound with a smaller amount of bass, but the very "tasty"


----------



## Pasopati

golov17 said:


> Asura has a brighter sound with a smaller amount of bass, but the very "tasty"




Do you using ashura 2 foamless like zen 2?


----------



## golov17

pasopati said:


> Do you using ashura 2 foamless like zen 2?


simple mod for both, and use them with foams (MP foams inside and outside)


----------



## Pasopati

Whats the purpose or effect with those mods ?


----------



## golov17

pasopati said:


> Whats the purpose or effect with those mods ?


Use with foams (cold winter in Russia) lol


----------



## rockingthearies

golov17 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/f/6550/headphones-for-sale-trade




Thanks but how do I post my listing?


----------



## vapman

Ooh, clieOS picked up some Koss buds! Curious where they fall on the list. Maybe he'll convince me to get some  my MisterTao order with the stuff from the pic above it haven't even made it to the forwarding facility yet!
  


> Koss KE7
> Koss KE10
> **** PT15


----------



## luedriver

vapman said:


> The Qian25 *might be the most Blox-like bud you can buy new right now.*


 
 sigh... opens aliexpress 




  
 wow, 7 AUD with free e-packet shipping? is this too good to be true?


----------



## vapman

luedriver said:


> sigh... opens aliexpress
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yup, that's the one ►  I have a red one on the way but I got two 25's in blue today instead of the Qian39 I ordered!


----------



## luedriver

vapman said:


> Yup, that's the one ►  I have a red one on the way but I got two 25's in blue today instead of the Qian39 I ordered!


 
  also getting a blue one, just so it looks different to all my other earbuds that share the mx500 shell


----------



## Fabi

About K's 64, I would agree with these first listening impressions.
 With time, treble has tamed down. As I can't bear harsh treble, it sounds better for me after let's say 24 hours.
 I never trust my own ootb impressions for my final opinion, it's always more accurate afterwards.
 With more power, mids don't sound that recessed, soundstage has more width and bass is more deep. But I understand it doesn't have the enveloping mid-bass quantity for bassheads.
 I enjoy them with thin foams, only on HG on my DAP or amped on 13V RA+, same as I have enjoyed 64 ohm Monk+.
 K's 500 is on the way.


----------



## ngoshawk

golov17 said:


> simple mod for both, and use them with foams (MP foams inside and outside)




Hey, golov17 what does that mod do for the sound signature of the Monks? I've done that to my Fostex headphones; but I'll be honest I had never thought about that for any earbuds! Might give new life to "some other brands" of which I am less than happy.

Thanks!


----------



## golov17

ngoshawk said:


> Hey, golov17 what does that mod do for the sound signature of the Monks? I've done that to my Fostex headphones; but I'll be honest I had never thought about that for any earbuds! Might give new life to "some other brands" of which I am less than happy.
> 
> Thanks!


Just try it, it's fun


----------



## ngoshawk

golov17 said:


> Just try it, it's fun




Lol, you got it!


----------



## golov17

ngoshawk said:


> Lol, you got it!


right now modded TY HP32 with some cotton and cable, so good


----------



## teston

Two seller claim that the K's 500 has some problem with the driver: hotfi and "that" store. Don't know if the one that I ordered at 11.11 is fixed.


----------



## Trzystatrzy

golov17 said:


> trzystatrzy said:
> 
> 
> > I have 100$, that models are really so good?
> ...



Great propositions, thx  but both are too big for me. I have big problems with my Monk+ and I looking for smaller housing and sound upgrade


----------



## kurtextrem

teston said:


> Two seller claim that the K's 500 has some problem with the driver: hotfi and "that" store. Don't know if the one that I ordered at 11.11 is fixed.


 
 i think it means they can't produce it currently; not the produced earbuds are faulty.
  
 @Trzystatrzy: Shozy Cygnus


----------



## golov17

trzystatrzy said:


> Great propositions, thx  but both are too big for me. I have big problems with my Monk+ and I looking for smaller housing and sound upgrade


Shozy Cygnus, also Blue Ever Blue with small housing for soft bass lovers


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, my Rose Masya has arrived, and holy crap, vocals are amazing on these.  They sound really lifelike.  I haven't had a chance to compare to either Shozy Cygnus or Crow Audio Signature Edition yet, which to my ears are extremely close to each other in quality with small trade offs here and there, but I really should compare the three soon.  I think the Masya might have more bass than the Cygnus, but I won't go off memory for it.  In some respects so far, this might be a better suited earbud for me than the Mojito.  Unlike the 3 Rose cables I've tried so far, I actually really like this one.  It's a more reasonable length than the others (2 from Mojito and 1 from Pudding) and most certainly doesn't have the memory issues the Pudding cable has.  It's by no means an impressive looking cable compared to the three however, as it feels a little generic, but I'm not at all bothered by this as the simple black cable goes well with the carbon fiber version I bought.  My vocals test track is Nobuo Uematsu - Memoro de la Stono, and it does a remarkable job with it.  @ClieOS I can understand why you ranked this so highly, and I'm curious how it'll sound after some burn in.
  
 K's 64 also arrived, but haven't tried it as of yet.  I know I should, but so far I'm really impressed with the Masya.


----------



## ClieOS

saoshyant said:


> .... * @ClieOS I can understand why you ranked this so highly*,...


----------



## Danneq

Wow! A lot happens when you are away for 2 days!

 Now the CAX black editon are ready and hopefully they will be sent tomorrow or on Thursday.


  
  
 I received a pair of "Dark Horse ES-E2" yesterday, or as they are called in Chinese: 调音师 三频女王 (Sound Tuner's 'Queen'). I bought them from Taobao using Bhiner.

 Big soundstage but too big in a way. It feels artificial. Almost like the music is played in an echo chamber. Bass is good, mids slightly recessed and highs a bit sharp. Build quality is quite good. Will try to burn them in for a day or two to see if they improve.


----------



## Nachash

Got the Qian39, not really impressed with the "packaging"


----------



## AudioNewbi3

saoshyant said:


> Well, my Rose Masya has arrived, and holy crap, vocals are amazing on these.  They sound really lifelike.  I haven't had a chance to compare to either Shozy Cygnus or Crow Audio Signature Edition yet, which to my ears are extremely close to each other in quality with small trade offs here and there, but I really should compare the three soon.  I think the Masya might have more bass than the Cygnus, but I won't go off memory for it.  In some respects so far, this might be a better suited earbud for me than the Mojito.  Unlike the 3 Rose cables I've tried so far, I actually really like this one.  It's a more reasonable length than the others (2 from Mojito and 1 from Pudding) and most certainly doesn't have the memory issues the Pudding cable has.  It's by no means an impressive looking cable compared to the three however, as it feels a little generic, but I'm not at all bothered by this as the simple black cable goes well with the carbon fiber version I bought.  My vocals test track is Nobuo Uematsu - Memoro de la Stono, and it does a remarkable job with it.  @ClieOS I can understand why you ranked this so highly, and I'm curious how it'll sound after some burn in.
> 
> K's 64 also arrived, but haven't tried it as of yet.  I know I should, but so far I'm really impressed with the Masya.


 
  
 Let's hope you won't be too impress and leave your other buds in the dust


danneq said:


> Wow! A lot happens when you are away for 2 days!
> 
> Now the CAX black editon are ready and hopefully they will be sent tomorrow or on Thursday.
> 
> ...


 
 Like black zen 2.0?


----------



## Saoshyant

@AudioNewbi3 Anything I'm too impressed with and has a bit of cost to it like the Masya, I won't bring with me to work, so other earbuds like the Monk, H180, and maybe the K's 64 from initial listen get brought for what ends up being a bigger bit of my daily listening.  Earbuds like the Mojito for example will excel when I want to listen to Rachmaninov or other classical pieces, so they certainly won't be forgotten.  Honestly, I really should give the MX985 a listen again soon as it's been neglected of late.  I don't remember it's impedance off the top of my head, so if it's higher than I expect it might do well with my Supermini.


----------



## Brandon7s

saoshyant said:


> Well, my Rose Masya has arrived, and holy crap, vocals are amazing on these.  They sound really lifelike.  I haven't had a chance to compare to either Shozy Cygnus or Crow Audio Signature Edition yet, which to my ears are extremely close to each other in quality with small trade offs here and there, but I really should compare the three soon.  I think the Masya might have more bass than the Cygnus, but I won't go off memory for it.  In some respects so far, this might be a better suited earbud for me than the Mojito.  Unlike the 3 Rose cables I've tried so far, I actually really like this one.  It's a more reasonable length than the others (2 from Mojito and 1 from Pudding) and most certainly doesn't have the memory issues the Pudding cable has.  It's by no means an impressive looking cable compared to the three however, as it feels a little generic, but I'm not at all bothered by this as the simple black cable goes well with the carbon fiber version I bought.  My vocals test track is Nobuo Uematsu - Memoro de la Stono, and it does a remarkable job with it.  @ClieOS I can understand why you ranked this so highly, and I'm curious how it'll sound after some burn in.
> 
> K's 64 also arrived, but haven't tried it as of yet.  I know I should, but so far I'm really impressed with the Masya.


 

 I've been enjoying my Masya more and more recently.. though the fit is still weird.
  
 They are simply fantastic for anything with female vocals, and also great for most ambient style music (and trance/psyambient, which I listen to a lot of). I try to stay away from any kind of heavy rock with them due to the highs getting a bit too piercing with them, but I really enjoy them with most other genres. Favorite song to listen to them right now is Sara Bareilles' _Basketcase_. The Masya is really in its element with acoustic guitar and female vocals.


----------



## golov17

brandon7s said:


> I've been enjoying my Masya more and more recently.. though the fit is still weird.
> 
> They are simply fantastic for anything with female vocals, and also great for most ambient style music (and trance/psyambient, which I listen to a lot of). I try to stay away from any kind of heavy rock with them due to the highs getting a bit too piercing with them, but I really enjoy them with most other genres. Favorite song to listen to them right now is Sara Bareilles' _Basketcase_. The Masya is really in it's element with acoustic guitar and female vocals.


 temptation, temptation  hold on, hold on


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> Like black zen 2.0?




I haven't asked but the cable does look similar. The CAX golden reference earbud used a thick cardas cable.


----------



## tinkertailor

Hey guys, just recieved the Boarseman MX98 and Faaeal 64ohm in the mail. Mx98 is just great. Lots of detail, driven easily. Sort of like my yuin pk2s, a little less silky but way more bass and more forward. Overall fuller, probablly better sound, though not conclusive yet.
 The Faaeal are very veiled and not really that good (just bought cuz they were cheap anyways) compared to boarseman mx 98, yuins, not as good as VE MONK but I just wanted to mention the microphonics issue with them. The twisty cable makes a lot of rubbing sound in the shell. It sounds a bit like a crinkly driver but I think its just the cable slightly twisting and untwisting. For me a big joy of earbuds is the lack of microphonics issues. Anyone else experience this. This type of earbud design looks quite common right now so unless people disagre I would avoid this style of cable in this style housing (maybe all housings). Too bad cuz it looks really cool.
  
 Here is a photo of the cable im talking about. (though i don't have the 300ohm version)


----------



## Ira Delphic

tinkertailor said:


> Hey guys, just recieved the Boarseman MX98 and Faaeal 64ohm in the mail. Mx98 is just great. Lots of detail, driven easily. Sort of like my yuin pk2s, a little less silky but way more bass and more forward. Overall fuller, probablly better sound, though not conclusive yet.
> The Faaeal are very veiled and not really that good (just bought cuz they were cheap anyways) compared to boarseman mx 98, yuins, not as good as VE MONK but I just wanted to mention the microphonics issue with them. The twisty cable makes a lot of rubbing sound in the shell. It sounds a bit like a crinkly driver but I think its just the cable slightly twisting and untwisting. For me a big joy of earbuds is the lack of microphonics issues. Anyone else experience this. This type of earbud design looks quite common right now so unless people disagre I would avoid this style of cable in this style housing (maybe all housings). Too bad cuz it looks really cool.
> 
> Here is a photo of the cable im talking about. (though i don't have the 300ohm version)


 
  
 You try a lapel clip/cord clip? May not be easy finding one for the thick braided cable. 
  
 A really nice JVC clip is in this old thread. 
 On Ebay search for "*Headphone Earphone Cable Cord Wire Lapel Collar Clip Nip Clamp Mount Holder**"*


----------



## BloodyPenguin

tinkertailor said:


> Hey guys, just recieved the Boarseman MX98 and Faaeal 64ohm in the mail. Mx98 is just great. Lots of detail, driven easily. Sort of like my yuin pk2s, a little less silky but way more bass and more forward. Overall fuller, probablly better sound, though not conclusive yet.


 
  
 Is yours the Boarseman MX98 or the Boarseman MX98s?
  
 --


----------



## vapman

fabi said:


> About K's 64, I would agree with these first listening impressions.
> With time, treble has tamed down. As I can't bear harsh treble, it sounds better for me after let's say 24 hours.
> I never trust my own ootb impressions for my final opinion, it's always more accurate afterwards.
> With more power, mids don't sound that recessed, soundstage has more width and bass is more deep. But I understand it doesn't have the enveloping mid-bass quantity for bassheads.
> ...




I noticed they got a little better with time but were still hurting my ears with the high frequencies. However after being transplanted into the qian39 shell it is a mids beast comparable to the zen 2 (on a good source). Really up there with the zen 2 as most prominent midrange you can get in a bud. And it's nice and warm too! The character has totally changed and only for the better imo.


----------



## Nachash

Wow, I'm impressed with this Qian39. Not sure if it's above the "Philips" for my tastes but it's better than the TY32 for sure (even if I'm actually getting used to the sound if properly dressed up with a nice pair of foams).
  
 One thing that I don't like, the Monk are huge for my ears, the Qian are small. Like children small.
  
 Other than that, great cheap earbuds. Can't wait for the other Qian to arrive


----------



## golov17

nachash said:


> Wow, I'm impressed with this Qian39. Not sure if it's above the "Philips" for my tastes but it's better than the TY32 for sure (even if I'm actually getting used to the sound if properly dressed up with a nice pair of foams).
> 
> One thing that I don't like, the Monk are huge for my ears, the Qian are small. Like children small.
> 
> Other than that, great cheap earbuds. Can't wait for the other Qian to arrive


25 better


----------



## Nachash

golov17 said:


> 25 better


 

 can't wait


----------



## vapman

nachash said:


> Got the Qian39, not really impressed with the "packaging"


 
 Whatever seller you used must have gone budget-mode because all 3 of my Qian so far showed up in the metal tins  Do you want one of mine?
  


danneq said:


> Wow! A lot happens when you are away for 2 days!
> 
> Now the CAX black editon are ready and hopefully they will be sent tomorrow or on Thursday.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sell your house and get the Cypherus x3 too!


----------



## tintheman

Hi Vapman, if I remember correctly that you have many of those VE wing tips for earbuds that you don't use, do you think you could send them to me since I need them to keep buds in my ear and buying from the EX pack just for them cost too much. I live in US...could I offer to pay for the shipping if you could send them to me?


----------



## Nachash

vapman said:


> Whatever seller you used must have gone budget-mode because all 3 of my Qian so far showed up in the metal tins  Do you want one of mine?


 
 Yes, ultra budget mode. He used to sell them in those cheap 50cents cases, then he stopped:
  

  
 Thanks for the tin offer, but I'm using a shoe box...

  
 and I bought 3 of those cheap cases so I could get the $3 discount from a seller on Ali the other day


----------



## vapman

tintheman said:


> Hi Vapman, if I remember correctly that you have many of those VE wing tips for earbuds that you don't use, do you think you could send them to me since I need them to keep buds in my ear and buying from the EX pack just for them cost too much. I live in US...could I offer to pay for the shipping if you could send them to me?


 

 Since you asked nicely I will send you a set in a plain envelope with a stamp and no tracking number. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PM me your address and i will drop it off in one of the street mailboxes today. No need to pay me.
  
@Nachash - cool no problem, I use the TY 650 box to store my favorite buds at my desk and some zip up camo cases for the ones that don't get much rotation.


----------



## Tomasz2D

So it looks like I will not get my TY650 this time. I ordered them during Aliexpress 11.11. promo in Beteran HIFI Audio Store but today the seller informed me that they don't have it on stock and... at the same time they have marked it as shipped. During on-line chat they told me that they can't ship it and that this is the system that sent shipment confirmation with tracking number automatically. The only move I could make in this situation was to press immediately "Confirm Goods Received" button, post one star bad feedback and open dispute for full refund.


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> So it looks like I will not get my TY650 this time. I ordered them during Aliexpress 11.11. promo in Beteran HIFI Audio Store but today the seller informed me that they don't have it on stock and... at the same time they have marked it as shipped. During on-line chat they told me that they can't ship it and that this is the system that sent shipment confirmation with tracking number automatically. The only move I could make in this situation was to press immediately "Confirm Goods Received" button, post one star bad feedback and open dispute for full refund.


 
 Love when Ali sellers out themselves for making fake trackings.... ugh!


----------



## golov17

nachash said:


> can't wait


 Mmmm..


----------



## vapman

I can't wait for my red ones to get in. Ill probably give away my other blue set once the red 25 is delievered here. It is a little flatter than the 39 but still an absolutely fantastic value.


----------



## tinkertailor

No S. 


bloodypenguin said:


> Is yours the Boarseman MX98 or the Boarseman MX98s?
> 
> --


 
 No s.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> Mmmm..


 
  
 Qian25?  
  
 I'm still wondering if this one that I got from Taobao is also a different designed Qian25:
  
 https://world.taobao.com/item/39504951885.htm
  

  
  
 --


----------



## vapman

bloodypenguin said:


> Qian25?
> 
> I'm still wondering if this one that I got from Taobao is also a different designed Qian25:
> 
> ...




Thats the real thing, no worries. I already found out Taobao has all the fun colors and Ali sellers get the boring ones. My red 25 is the same as is pictured in your link!


----------



## Ira Delphic

bloodypenguin said:


> tinkertailor said:
> 
> 
> > Hey guys, just recieved the Boarseman MX98 and Faaeal 64ohm in the mail. Mx98 is just great. Lots of detail, driven easily. Sort of like my yuin pk2s, a little less silky but way more bass and more forward. Overall fuller, probablly better sound, though not conclusive yet.
> ...


 
  
 The "s" is  very good and the MX98 mediocre?


----------



## Nachash

vapman said:


> @Nachash - cool no problem, I use the TY 650 box to store my favorite buds at my desk and some zip up camo cases for the ones that don't get much rotation.


 
 Yep, that's why I wanted the extra box with the TY650


----------



## tinkertailor

ira delphic said:


> The "s" is  very good and the MX98 mediocre?


 
 Ive never tried the s. maybe bloody penguin knows. I do like the mx98 though.


----------



## tinkertailor

ira delphic said:


> You try a lapel clip/cord clip? May not be easy finding one for the thick braided cable.
> 
> A really nice JVC clip is in this old thread.
> On Ebay search for "*Headphone Earphone Cable Cord Wire Lapel Collar Clip Nip Clamp Mount Holder**"I*


 
*I appreciate the suggest but I don't think I want to use any clips. I like earbuds cuz they are so free, just plug and play freely you know? That said, the crinkling ocurs directly in the shell, its like the wire rubbing against itself or the shell. Since this type of cable seems to prevelant i figured someone else might have noticed.*


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Thats the real thing, no worries. I already found out Taobao has all the fun colors and Ali sellers get the boring ones. My red 25 is the same as is pictured in your link!


 yep


----------



## BloodyPenguin

tinkertailor said:


> Ive never tried the s. maybe bloody penguin knows. I do like the mx98 though.


 

 Unfortunately I have never tried either the MX98 or MX98s.  Though I both are VERY high on my list to give a listen.
  
 ..


----------



## Fabi

vapman said:


> I noticed they got a little better with time but were still hurting my ears with the high frequencies. However after being transplanted into the qian39 shell it is a mids beast comparable to the zen 2 (on a good source). Really up there with the zen 2 as most prominent midrange you can get in a bud. And it's nice and warm too! The character has totally changed and only for the better imo.


 
 Yup, I understand, it seems you're even more treble sensitive than me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Guys, you made me interested in these qian25, at least for the metal box 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Doctor vapman, your transplantation into qian39 sounds cool!
 You can now open your own store and sell worldwide, the Vapman CREW Audio (Custom Reasonable Earbuds Workshop)


----------



## Nachash

golov17 said:


> yep


 
 I bought the blue one (I think) from ali, let's see if they're sending the tinbox too


----------



## golov17

nachash said:


> I bought the blue one (I think) from ali, let's see if they're sending the tinbox too


i have blue with angle jack, a bit more bass, than of white


----------



## slim311

golov17 said:


> i have blue with angle jack, a bit more bass, than of white




That's the one I ordered on 11.11, blue with L-jack. I haven't even heard them yet, and after seeing these Taobao pics, now I want some red/orange or black/red/blue ones too. Damn these cheap buds! It's killing me, Smalls.


----------



## golov17

slim311 said:


> That's the one I ordered on 11.11, blue with L-jack. I haven't even heard them yet, and after seeing these Taobao pics, now I want some red/orange or black/red/blue ones too. Damn these cheap buds! It's killing me, Smalls.


 Cheerful Hobby


----------



## ClieOS

Quote:


vapman said:


> Ooh, clieOS picked up some Koss buds! Curious where they fall on the list. Maybe he'll convince me to get some  ..


 
  
 Just skip them - not good enough SQ + not good enough build quality. If you take the 'Koss' name away, they might not worth $1 on AE.


----------



## vapman

clieos said:


> Quote:
> 
> Just skip them - not good enough SQ + not good enough build quality. If you take the 'Koss' name away, they might not worth $1 on AE.




Ouch.  
Thanks for the warning!


----------



## vapman

First bud to make it to Mistertao: the Yinman Hifi 2.0 150ohm! I didn't realize Mistertao takes tons of photos of the items for you once they get in. Three more left to go but I have about 20 pictures of my Yinman to look at 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






Spoiler: Yinman Hifi 2.0 150ohm images



 





  
 My man at Mistertao has quite long fingernails


----------



## AudioNewbi3

saoshyant said:


> @AudioNewbi3 Anything I'm too impressed with and has a bit of cost to it like the Masya, I won't bring with me to work, so other earbuds like the Monk, H180, and maybe the K's 64 from initial listen get brought for what ends up being a bigger bit of my daily listening.  Earbuds like the Mojito for example will excel when I want to listen to Rachmaninov or other classical pieces, so they certainly won't be forgotten.  Honestly, I really should give the MX985 a listen again soon as it's been neglected of late.  I don't remember it's impedance off the top of my head, so if it's higher than I expect it might do well with my Supermini.


 
 That is true...I only use my Mojito when ever I feel like I can take the time off to clean it up afterwards....I am so damn afraid of breaking them.
 But for instrumental music they are just so heavenly.....  
  


danneq said:


> I haven't asked but the cable does look similar. The CAX golden reference earbud used a thick cardas cable.


 
 CAX Gold is like a legendary unicorn in the ELI FB page haha


----------



## BloodyPenguin

With all this talk, I am very much enjoying my *Qian25* tonight. 
  

  
  
 --


----------



## tintheman

vapman said:


> Since you asked nicely I will send you a set in a plain envelope with a stamp and no tracking number.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you, pm sent...


----------



## Raketen

clieos said:


> Quote:
> 
> Just skip them - not good enough SQ + not good enough build quality. If you take the 'Koss' name away, they might not worth $1 on AE.




Yeah but their camoflage buds are really good because my boss can't tell I'm wearing them.


----------



## Akmola Lola

monk plus vs FAD Piano Forte II at USD 28-30 guys? already got monk plus, also got tomahawk and ting.. all 3 have different signature.. just wondering whether piano forte is worth the buck at $ 28-30 .. saw on amazon.jp


----------



## vapman

Anyone wanna see the Mistertao pics of my Sanyo 300 ohms? Taobao is fun 
  


Spoiler: Sanyo 300 ohm images



 



  
  


 That is an old school wire for sure.


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> CAX Gold is like a legendary unicorn in the ELI FB page haha


 

 That seems resonable since only two pairs were made and they were not intended to be sold. At least 5 pairs of CAX black edition were made and there are still 2 pairs left after I bought one pair. The drivers are not the same but CAX Black Edition are supposed to sound really good, and the cable is alos better for portable use than the one on CAX Golden Reference...


----------



## JASru

How much CAX BE costs?
 How soon will you write about yours?)


----------



## JASru

danneq said:


> That seems resonable since only two pairs were made and they were not intended to be sold. At least 5 pairs of CAX black edition were made and there are still 2 pairs left after I bought one pair. The drivers are not the same but CAX Black Edition are supposed to sound really good, and the cable is alos better for portable use than the one on CAX Golden Reference...


 
 How much CAX BE costs?
 How soon you will get yours?)


----------



## ClieOS

akmola lola said:


> monk plus vs* FAD Piano Forte II *at USD 28-30 guys? already got monk plus, also got tomahawk and ting.. all 3 have different signature.. just wondering whether piano forte is worth the buck at $ 28-30 .. saw on amazon.jp


 
  
 A real pain to fit and doesn't actually sound that good. Don't bother. Monk+ beats it anytime of the week.


----------



## Danneq

jasru said:


> How much CAX BE costs?
> How soon you will get yours?)


 


 $280 and then there is $40 in shipping costs (EMS). They have not been sent yet but hopefully they should reach me by the end of next week.


----------



## ClieOS

danneq said:


> $280 and then there is $40 in shipping costs (EMS). They have not been sent yet but hopefully they should reach me by the end of next week.


 
  
 Sir, I shall use you as an example to argue to anyone that I am not nearly as much of a shopaholic when it comes to earbuds


----------



## Danneq

clieos said:


> Sir, I shall use you as an example to argue to anyone that I am not nearly as much of a shopaholic when it comes to earbuds


 


 Nowadays I would rather spend $1000 on 5-6 TOTL earbuds than $1000 on 100 pairs of okay earbuds.

 Also, my journey is nearing it's end. I can only think of a handful of earbuds that I want to buy now (including K's 500 ohm and Shozy Stardust + the still to be released VE Nirvana and new Blox flagship).


----------



## ClieOS

danneq said:


> Nowadays I would rather spend $1000 on 5-6 TOTL earbuds than $1000 on 100 pairs of okay earbuds.
> 
> Also, *my journey is nearing it's end*. I can only think of a handful of earbuds that I want to buy now (including K's 500 ohm and Shozy Stardust + the still to be released VE Nirvana and new Blox flagship).


 
  
 Keep telling yourself that till CAX SuperGold is released, then there is the UltraGold... and the HyperGold after that...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 .. or as they said, death (or deaf, I supposed) is the only escape.


----------



## music4mhell

It seems this is the right time to mention that i ordered the Zen 2 black edition ($358).. !


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> It seems this is the right time to mention that i ordered the Zen 2 black edition ($358).. !


 

 Finally we will get a good review of zen 2 vs black zen 2!!!


----------



## Danneq

clieos said:


> Keep telling yourself that till CAX SuperGold is released, then there is the UltraGold... and the HyperGold after that...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well, perhaps if I can sell stuff to finance the purchase. But $300 has been the limit for earbud purchases for a while. Remember that I used to collect vintage Sony and Aiwa earbuds and prices can really shoot straight up. Just once I went over the $300 limit and stopped bidding at around €600 on a pair of mint Aiwa HP V9. That auction ended over €800. After that I started to question if collecting really was worth it and soon I let that hobby go.

 I'm most hyped about the upcoming Blox flagship actually. 3 Cypherus earbuds might be enough for me.


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> It seems this is the right time to mention that i ordered the Zen 2 black edition ($358).. !


 


 Haha! That is more than even I would pay for an earbud (well, at least excluding shipping costs).

 Zen 2 wasn't my cup of tea, but I'm still looking forward to your impressions!


----------



## Tomasz2D

clieos said:


> Keep telling yourself that till CAX SuperGold is released, then there is the UltraGold... and the HyperGold after that...


 
 How about the Platinum.


----------



## Saoshyant

@vapman You keep posting pics like that, and I might break down and put together a Taobao shopping list.  I still have some Rose products I want to try, as well as some stuff I'll buy off suggestions of you and others that know what to look for on Taobao.


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> Finally we will get a good review of zen 2 vs black zen 2!!!


 


 I'm hoping he will buy a pair of CAX Black Edition so that we can get a comparison between that and Zen 2 Black Edition...


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> @vapman
> You keep posting pics like that, and I might break down and put together a Taobao shopping list.  I still have some Rose products I want to try, as well as some stuff I'll buy off suggestions of you and others that know what to look for on Taobao.




I havent got pics of the red Qian25 or Vidos yet


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > Finally we will get a good review of zen 2 vs black zen 2!!!
> ...


 
 So i am the bet here for all comparison ?


----------



## golov17

Frigga DS1 600 USD 5pcs sold


----------



## Danneq

Regarding Taobao, the Erqu EQ100 that I bought on Taobao using Taobaoring has arrived at my post office. I probably won't pick it up until the weekend, though.


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> So i am the bet here for all comparison ?


 


 You make me look like a cheapskate...


----------



## Saoshyant

@golov17 I'm quite curious about the sound of that one, but unless it is an absolute pinnacle for an earbud, I can't see any point in buying it unless the aesthetics are really worth it, which I must admit it's certainly lovely looking.


----------



## golov17

Frigga D1 280USD cheap


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > So i am the bet here for all comparison ?
> ...


 
 Lol, let me know your impressions.. obviously when i will compare my Zen 2 black with Zen 2 stock.. people can interpolate from that easily !
  
 Needless to say i will compare Zen2 black with Shozy Stardust, Masya, K500


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> Regarding Taobao, the Erqu EQ100 that I bought on Taobao using Taobaoring has arrived at my post office. I probably won't pick it up until the weekend, though.


interesting


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> @golov17
> I'm quite curious about the sound of that one, but unless it is an absolute pinnacle for an earbud, I can't see any point in buying it unless the aesthetics are really worth it, which I must admit it's certainly lovely looking.


NOS drivers from Germany 16 Ohm


----------



## golov17

golov17 said:


> Use with foams (cold winter in Russia) lol


cold


----------



## vapman

My problem with it is that it's $600 and you can see the glue on the outside


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> Frigga D1 280USD cheap


 

 This one actually looks nice. The $600 looks like a pipe.


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> Regarding Taobao, the Erqu EQ100 that I bought on Taobao using Taobaoring has arrived at my post office. I probably won't pick it up until the weekend, though.




Argh! I forgot all about this one making my mistertao order... Well if i love the Yinman 150, I'll buy the yinman 500.


----------



## golov17

Love buds for classical music


----------



## tintheman

Just curious if anyone bought this Erqu EQ320. so far it's very good to my ear, weird shape but the lower part does sub-bass very good, you could feel the impact.


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> Argh! I forgot all about this one making my mistertao order... Well if i love the Yinman 150, I'll buy the yinman 500.


 


 Here are Tomasz2D's impressions: http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/6480#post_12724011


----------



## vapman

tintheman said:


> Just curious if anyone bought this Erqu EQ320. so far it's very good to my ear, weird shape but the lower part does sub-bass very good, you could feel the impact.




I saw this looooong ago and thought it would be a joke. But it's good? What could you compare the sound to?


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> This one actually looks nice. The $600 looks like a pipe.


 Hand-made housing of valuable wood with special cushioning inside the case, optional varnishing or without


----------



## tintheman

To me, the sound is comparable to overear headphone, the lower part with vibration give kind of 3D feeling to it...I tried with the song Pompeii and you could feel the drum beats through the weird vibration created from the lower part...I am not so good on describing the sound and this is why I have been asking if anyone else got them. As a matter of fact, during 11/11, I bought a second pair just to have spare...


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > It seems this is the right time to mention that i ordered the Zen 2 black edition ($358).. !
> ...


 
 Are you interested in Zen 2 black ?


----------



## Danneq

tintheman said:


> Just curious if anyone bought this Erqu EQ320. so far it's very good to my ear, weird shape but the lower part does sub-bass very good, you could feel the impact.


 

 You should try Erqu EQ300. It's not listed with the correct name but this is that one. It's actually pretty good and worth the $19 it costs...

  


golov17 said:


> Hand-made housing of valuable wood with special cushioning inside the case, optional varnishing or without


 
 Sounds high class. But I wonder about driver tuning. I'd prefer a great sounding earbud in Sennheiser MX500 housing to an okay sounding earbud in custom housing...


----------



## tintheman

danneq said:


> You should try Erqu EQ300. It's not listed with the correct name but this is that one. It's actually pretty good and worth the $19 it costs...


 
 I would but the 320 has different shape, I really wish someone else will try it to see what I meant for the bass impact from the lower part, it vibrate through the jaw bone.


----------



## tintheman

Also, I can't seem to find the EQ300 available in Aliexpress, could you point to me where I could get it for $19?


----------



## Danneq

tintheman said:


> Also, I can't seem to find the EQ300 available in Aliexpress, could you point to me where I could get it for $19?


 

 Try the link in my post. It is listed in a different name (NAOI M1) but it is definitely Erqu EQ300. There was no box and only a case with the earbuds, but there was a warranty card in Chinese where it said "Erqu".


----------



## Tomasz2D

Actually it is very nice that there is a market for boutique earbuds. Limited quantities and premium prices, one can own something special that is not mass-produced. It also says something about earbuds marker in general - how diversified
 it is these days.


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> Actually it is very nice that there is a market for boutique earbuds. Limited quantities and premium prices, one can own something special that is not mass-produced. It also says something about earbuds marker in general - how diversified
> it is these days.


 


 As long as it sounds good. I consider Blox a sort of boutique earbuds. Their top end earbuds such as TM7 and TM5 are very limited releases. Woo seems to run the place almost like a one man show. Cypherus is even more a one man show where each pair of earbuds is pretty much custom made after you have placed an order. 
 I only go by sound and boutique earbuds can be as good as or better than mass produced earbuds (as long as the people running the boutique knows what they are doing).


----------



## tintheman

danneq said:


> Try the link in my post. It is listed in a different name (NAOI M1) but it is definitely Erqu EQ300. There was no box and only a case with the earbuds, but there was a warranty card in Chinese where it said "Erqu".


 
 Thank you, find it in Aliexpress under your name mentioned...


----------



## luedriver

tinkertailor said:


> ... mention the microphonics issue with them. The twisty cable makes a lot of rubbing sound in the shell. It sounds a bit like a crinkly driver but I think its just the cable slightly twisting and untwisting...


 
 the hp-650 sound exactly like that if I pull slightly on the cable, while the earbud is in my ear, on their own they don't make a sound, even when moving my head or push my chair back


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> As long as it sounds good. I consider Blox a sort of boutique earbuds. Their top end earbuds such as TM7 and TM5 are very limited releases. Woo seems to run the place almost like a one man show. Cypherus is even more a one man show where each pair of earbuds is pretty much custom made after you have placed an order.
> I only go by sound and boutique earbuds can be as good as or better than mass produced earbuds (as long as the people running the boutique knows what they are doing).


 
 Yes! And I think the whole ordering process adds to a good experience as well. I remember when I was ordering $19 earbud in Good Sound Gadget I was cared for personaly by the maker, I could choose cables, colors and I was informed (with pictures) about my order status. Very cool! Much better then just clicking "buy in now" button on some dehumanized web page.
 By the way. How was Blox ordering? Was it via e-mail?


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> By the way. How was Blox ordering? Was it via e-mail?


 

 It used to be through the Blox homepage. But not much has happened there for a long while. The latest release B200 was only released in Thailand and I think you could only buy it through e-mail contact with Blox/Woo...


----------



## tintheman

Hi Danneq, how would you describe the sound of Erqu EQ300, also compare to Monk + or Monk Candy? I hope it's not just bass monster type...


----------



## Danneq

tintheman said:


> Hi Danneq, how would you describe the sound of Erqu EQ300, also compare to Monk + or Monk Candy? I hope it's not just bass monster type...


 


 I wrote about them here and here.

 That sort of "splashy" sound from cymbals that I described in my second post seems to have pretty much gone away after a few hours of use.


----------



## luedriver

any info on the Rose Technology 64ohm?


----------



## Fabi

music4mhell said:


> Needless to say i will compare Zen2 black with Shozy Stardust, Masya, K500


 
 This is Champion's League!


----------



## JASru

tomasz2d said:


> Yes! And I think the whole ordering process adds to a good experience as well. I remember when I was ordering $19 earbud in Good Sound Gadget I was cared for personaly by the maker, I could choose cables, colors and I was informed (with pictures) about my order status. Very cool! Much better then just clicking "buy in now" button on some dehumanized web page.
> By the way. How was Blox ordering? Was it via e-mail?


 
 What about this manufacturer? How good his buds are? I noticed that his top earbud is 1,5kTHB, which is not a lot, but I guess you can add options and the price rises up.


----------



## Danneq

Today the CampFred and CAX black edition got sent out.

 I have to say that the box for CAX black is really nice...


----------



## Lad3

Looks like I missed my chance for a lovely pair of braided Candys!


----------



## Saoshyant

See if someone's willing to sell one of their spares.  I bet you there's at least a few that have 6 pairs or so.
  
 Also, I was curious for those that bought the PT15 from HCK, anyone else not get a tracking update in a week or so?  Another order of mine there, the Masya, was fairly well tracked, but I haven't gotten an update since being processed through EMS.  I know multiple people haven't exactly been happy with HCK of late, so unsure if I need to be concerned.


----------



## JASru

My 11.11 order by HCK is still being processed. Makes me worry a bit.


----------



## luckyeights

So whats the over all opinion of the Rose Masya?  I remember reading some where that it is missing mid bass?   I am curious as to if that is true as it might be caused by the crossover between the bass driver and mid/high driver.


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> See if someone's willing to sell one of their spares.  I bet you there's at least a few that have 6 pairs or so.
> 
> Also, I was curious for those that bought the PT15 from HCK, anyone else not get a tracking update in a week or so?  Another order of mine there, the Masya, was fairly well tracked, but I haven't gotten an update since being processed through EMS.  I know multiple people haven't exactly been happy with HCK of late, so unsure if I need to be concerned.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> Today the CampFred and CAX black edition got sent out.
> 
> I have to say that the box for CAX black is really nice...


 
 Will patiently wait for your impressions mate!


----------



## Brandon7s

luckyeights said:


> So whats the over all opinion of the Rose Masya?  I remember reading some where that it is missing mid bass?   I am curious as to if that is true as it might be caused by the crossover between the bass driver and mid/high driver.


 

 I've not done any objective measurements, but I feel like the lower mids/higher bass is quite recessed. That's not really my problem with the earbuds though but it does give them a very definite V shaped sound signature, but I feel the V shape sound has its place in everyone's collection. I have two problems with the Rose Masya: fit and piercing highs. I suspect that I'm more sensitive to highs than most though. In any case, one can roll off and smooth the highs over with some EQ if you're one of those folks who doesn't mind using it (I'm not one of those guys).
  
 The fit is.. weird. They always feel like they are going to fall out of my ears. I'd use the earbud wings to keep them in place better but I have to remove the foams in order to use them. Using the Masya without foams brings to mind using a dentist drill to my eardrums - never heard highs THAT piercing before. I'm trying to figure out a way to keep the foams on AND use the silicone wings! No luck so far. If anyone knows how to do that, please let me know.


----------



## Fabi

brandon7s said:


> I've not done any objective measurements, but I feel like the lower mids/higher bass is quite recessed. That's not really my problem with the earbuds though but it does give them a very definite V shaped sound signature, but I feel the V shape sound has its place in everyone's collection. I have two problems with the Rose Masya: fit and piercing highs. I suspect that I'm more sensitive to highs than most though. In any case, one can roll off and smooth the highs over with some EQ if you're one of those folks who doesn't mind using it (I'm not one of those guys).
> 
> The fit is.. weird. They always feel like they are going to fall out of my ears. I'd use the earbud wings to keep them in place better but I have to remove the foams in order to use them. Using the Masya without foams brings to mind using a dentist drill to my eardrums - never heard highs THAT piercing before. I'm trying to figure out a way to keep the foams on AND use the silicone wings! No luck so far. If anyone knows how to do that, please let me know.


 
 How about using multi-holed thick foams, mate?


----------



## Brandon7s

fabi said:


> How about using multi-holed thick foams, mate?


 

 To tame the highs or to fit the wings on with the foams? It actually hadn't occurred to me to cut holes for the wings in some foams. I have a feeling I might have to remove too much material for it to stay together, but I have a ton of extra foams so I'll give it a shot!
  
 As far as taming the highs: the thickest foams I have are the Hiegi ones from penonaudio. They do tame the highs a _little_ bit, but it's an insignificant improvement over the stock buds.


----------



## Fabi

It's possible to put foams and then wings/earhoox.
 I repeat once more it is possible, as I have tried this before, but it's not very easy, I concede.
 Good luck!


----------



## kartik7405

Put a surgical tape on top of the driver;check below link how it looks.
 It will tame treble without effecting mids.
 But heigi "or" any thicker foam makes mids sound dull and not quite effective as compared to surgical tape.
http://cdn.head-fi.org/c/cd/cde3232e_IMG_0141.jpeg
  
  
 Have a try and let me know.


----------



## Willber

kartik7405 said:


> Put a surgical tape on top of the driver;check below link how it looks.
> It will tame treble without effecting mids.
> But heigi "or" any thicker foam makes mids sound dull and not quite effective as compared to surgical tape.
> http://cdn.head-fi.org/c/cd/cde3232e_IMG_0141.jpeg


 
  
 Good choice doing that to the RX-1 - they are too bright for me!


----------



## Brandon7s

kartik7405 said:


> Put a surgical tape on top of the driver;check below link how it looks.
> It will tame treble without effecting mids.
> But heigi "or" any thicker foam makes mids sound dull and not quite effective as compared to surgical tape.
> http://cdn.head-fi.org/c/cd/cde3232e_IMG_0141.jpeg
> ...


 
 Ooh, that sounds like a good idea. I'm going to order some off of amazon right now.


----------



## kartik7405

brandon7s said:


> Ooh, that sounds like a good idea. I'm going to order some off of amazon right now.


 
 The best combo is surgical tape with monk plus foam.so that it don't look ugly from outside and mids also not ruined.
 if buds are overly bright then put 2 layer of tape on each driver. Both driver must have same layer of tape otherwise it sound imbalanced.


----------



## Danneq

@LittleSoundHQ (Indonesian audio retailer LittleSound) started a Cypherus earbud thread that can be found *here*.


----------



## Frederick Wang

danneq said:


> Today the CampFred and CAX black edition got sent out.
> 
> I have to say that the box for CAX black is really nice...


 
 Waiting for your impressions on CAX black, I have this feeling that I might buy it for some reason inscrutable to me...


----------



## kim7135

jasru said:


> My 11.11 order by HCK is still being processed. Makes me worry a bit.


 
 Mine took three days to process, so it does look like they're doing work. Maybe give them another day or two?
  
 Hope you hear good news soon though!


----------



## springbay

1MORE EO320 arrived today.
  
 The best thing: the tuning has improved immensely from the EO303 model: The person responsible for the EO303 tuning must most definitely be tone def or at least only able to hear mid frequency. Thankfully you can't hear any resemblance between the two models.
  
 First I tried my usual test tracks with the EO320 on my iPhone. I was impressed by the detailed sub bass, but the over all sound felt quite congested. Amped them via my X3ii/K5 combo from my HTPC. The mids and highs opened up quite a lot, but I felt the sound lacked airiness and detail. Remembered that the EO320 bass was previously discussed in comparison to the K500 in this thread.
 So, silly me, put the K500 in my ears a couple of hours ago and now I can't force myself to take them out to try the EO320 any more today. The EO320 are definitely bassier, and the sub bass probably extends a bit further than on the K500. In fact it feels like the EO320 have little sub woofers built in.
 But what makes K500 such wonderful buds is that the bass is so punchy, detailed and accurate without forcing it self on over the mids and highs. Still, by far the best quality bass I've heard in ear buds. I would recommend the EO320 to those that prefer bass quantity over bass quality.
  
 I'd say there is a good reason why @ClieOS put the K500 among the Champions and the EO320 in the Great, while I think the totally messed up sound signature of the EO303 ought to place them in a new category called the Unlistenables.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

springbay said:


> 1MORE EO320 arrived today.
> 
> The best thing: the tuning has improved immensely from the EO303 model: The person responsible for the EO303 tuning must most definitely be tone def or at least only able to hear mid frequency. Thankfully you can't hear any resemblance between the two models.


 

 Ha, Tone Def Tuner!  I want that job! 
  
 --


----------



## vapman

BloodyPenguin all that position requires for filling is a power drill and a gung ho attitude


----------



## boblauer

vapman said:


> @BloodyPenguin all that position requires for filling is a power drill and a gung ho attitude


 
 Fine print probably includes certification in using a large hammer and  aptitude and ability to fit square things in round openings


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> @BloodyPenguin all that position requires for filling is a power drill and a gung ho attitude


 
  


boblauer said:


> Fine print probably includes certification in using a large hammer and  aptitude and ability to fit square things in round openings


 
  
 I'm starting to think I am missing my true calling.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 --


----------



## boblauer

bloodypenguin said:


> I'm starting to think I am missing my true calling.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You and me both, I'm starting to have little patience managing children er IT professionals.


----------



## Tomasz2D

jasru said:


> What about this manufacturer? How good his buds are? I noticed that his top earbud is 1,5kTHB, which is not a lot, but I guess you can add options and the price rises up.




I only have their cheap bud that costed $19 but still was custom made and I could choose from several options. Its sound is rather bright but balanced with pretty shy bass. I think for $19 you can find better buds elsewhere. But one day I would like to try their flagship.


----------



## ClieOS

Talks about 1MORE - this just arrived an hour ago:
  

  
 First impression: a small upgrade over EO320, but not by a lot. I'll say it is probably still in the scope of 'Great'. Sound signature is closer to that of EO303, rather than EO320 - that it has a warmer, thicker and smoother presentation., but at least it doesn't feel veil like EO303. Overall I feel quite positive about the new E1008, but it is not the Champion/Contender level earbud I was hoping for. Will burn it in and see how it goes.


----------



## luckyeights

brandon7s said:


> I've not done any objective measurements, but I feel like the lower mids/higher bass is quite recessed. That's not really my problem with the earbuds though but it does give them a very definite V shaped sound signature, but I feel the V shape sound has its place in everyone's collection. I have two problems with the Rose Masya: fit and piercing highs. I suspect that I'm more sensitive to highs than most though. In any case, one can roll off and smooth the highs over with some EQ if you're one of those folks who doesn't mind using it (I'm not one of those guys).
> 
> The fit is.. weird. They always feel like they are going to fall out of my ears. I'd use the earbud wings to keep them in place better but I have to remove the foams in order to use them. Using the Masya without foams brings to mind using a dentist drill to my eardrums - never heard highs THAT piercing before. I'm trying to figure out a way to keep the foams on AND use the silicone wings! No luck so far. If anyone knows how to do that, please let me know.


 
  
 You made me sad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  Now im not looking forward as much to my masya delivery.   I am sensitive to high frequencies... and missing mid bass *cries*....  Why cant anyone make good crossovers for multi driver earbuds/iems ?   I guess its back to the drawing board, maybe stardust would be a better all rounder then the masya then ?


----------



## vapman

luckyeights said:


> You made me sad
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I am avoiding all hybrid/ multi driver models, it just doesn't work IMO (well, JVC got it right with the SZ line... but those are full size headphones using a 55mm driver as a subwoofer...)
  
 I ran out of cable (that fits in earbud shells) and need to order more


----------



## tintheman

Hi vapman, so far which DIY earbud mod you have best result? Will the type of cable you use change the sound at all besides the look? Do you use the cable with different impedance to get your ideal signature?


----------



## vapman

tintheman said:


> Hi vapman, so far which DIY earbud mod you have best result? Will the type of cable you use change the sound at all besides the look? Do you use the cable with different impedance to get your ideal signature?


 

    
    
Qian39
K's 64 ohm
Edifier H180
  
 The top two spaces are blank because my three SHE3800 show up tomorrow and I don't know if they'll be life changing good. I am also doing my own messing with the H180 driver, but I find Qian and K's drivers to be the most promising to work with. And the other space is blank because I want to finish perfecting it before I show it off... still tearing it to mess with every day. But it's fully DIY...
  
 Traditionally I always love the sound of pure, oxygen free copper, but do like silver when it doesn't impact the bass response of the driver negatively, which is often the case, at least with full size headphones, but i've found some unexpected results working with silver cable so far. For instance, silver cable on the Qian39 driver. The bass power is not lessened but rather moved to clarity than power. So the cable is definitely a big factor when I am working with earbuds, in my experience. working with the Koss cable made me realize higher impedance cables can change the sound quality a lot too.
  
 Before anyone asks, I don't mod the Monk! they are perfect as is.


----------



## vapman

Hehehe. Red Qian25 is in at Mistertao. Listening to my blue one now and it's very nice.
 For under $4.50 I get the best color of Qian25 and a zip up case too. I might just stop using aliexpress... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 of course i'll have to pay the shipping fee from them to me once the Vido (the straggler) gets in, and then it can be shipped off to me...
  


Spoiler: Red Qian25 photos


----------



## Frederick Wang

clieos said:


> Talks about 1MORE - this just arrived an hour ago:
> 
> 
> 
> First impression: a small upgrade over EO320, but not by a lot. I'll say it is probably still in the scope of 'Great'. Sound signature is closer to that of EO303, rather than EO320 - that it has a warmer, thicker and smoother presentation., but at least it doesn't feel veil like EO303. Overall I feel quite positive about the new E1008, but it is not the Champion/Contender level earbud I was hoping for. Will burn it in and see how it goes.


 
 bummer... 
 BTW, I see you have PT15 in your possession for a while, which category would you put them into?


----------



## music4mhell

frederick wang said:


> clieos said:
> 
> 
> > Talks about 1MORE - this just arrived an hour ago:
> ...


 
 I also want to know it


----------



## Frederick Wang

Anyway, I have been listening to PT15 ever since I got them. Jumped ship from ER4s, the transition was like from a subtle Saikei to a mini garden, some cunning & delicacy was lost in favor of body & scale. 
  
 PT15 did a wonderful job in reproducing soundstage(3D-like, sometimes I get the illusion that something is in the room),  treble is among the best I have listened(that kind of clarity I have been talking about). But the bright nature of them poses a major drawback, vocals tend to have an excess of gloss. I have only used the **** silver cable with them, I think I might open the can of worm, no, cable, soon...


----------



## music4mhell

Just received 2 **** PT15.. Silver and black cable both ..Rose Masya and K500 !!
 At las the wait is over !


----------



## tinkertailor

music4mhell said:


> Just received 2 **** PT15.. Silver and black cable both ..Rose Masya and K500 !!
> At las the wait is over !


 
 That is some serious earbud action. Someone is a lucky boy (or girl)! Nice.


----------



## Frederick Wang

music4mhell said:


> Just received 2 **** PT15.. Silver and black cable both ..Rose Masya and K500 !!
> At las the wait is over !


 
 Congrats!
 Please share your impressions of the differences between cables.


----------



## music4mhell

tinkertailor said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Just received 2 **** PT15.. Silver and black cable both ..Rose Masya and K500 !!
> ...


 
 I am a guy for sure


----------



## Danneq

Usually women do not become as obsessed with technical gadgets like us guys...


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> Usually women do not become as obsessed with technical gadgets like us guys...


 
 I totally agree with you, that's the reason i am still single and unmarried 
 That's why i am able to spend any amount of money on Audio gears ..!


----------



## Holypal

music4mhell said:


> I totally agree with you, that's the reason i am still single and unmarried
> That's why i am able to spend any amount of money on Audio gears ..!




You should spend more on girls.


----------



## music4mhell

holypal said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I totally agree with you, that's the reason i am still single and unmarried
> ...


 
 Then you will see me very less on Headfi


----------



## Danneq

On the other hand, my wife loves music and is pleased that I choose stuff for her. She's happy with her Sony A856 and Monk+ earbuds plus my old Audio Technica ATH ES7 headphones. I think it's fun finding new stuff for her. Right now I'm starting to think what she might like when her A856 dies (battery life isn't what it used to be). Perhaps a Sony A2x?

 But yeah, I would be lying if I said that I don't miss, at least a little bit, the days when I was single and could spend as much as I wanted without worrying about anything.


----------



## ClieOS

frederick wang said:


> bummer...
> BTW, I see you have PT15 in your possession for a while, which category would you put them into?


 
  
 Probably somewhere in the lower end contender to upper end great - won't be 100% sure till I have the time to sit down for serious audition and compare it to other earbuds


----------



## music4mhell

clieos said:


> frederick wang said:
> 
> 
> > bummer...
> ...


 
 +1.. !


----------



## Saoshyant

@luckyeights I strongly suggest you keep an open mind for when the Masya arrives.  I personally feel the bass is impressive for an earbud, and it responds quite well to EQ.  I'm tempted to hook it up to my Cayin C5 or Fiio E12 and see how far it goes.  I wouldn't give up so easily.


----------



## cingcut

my pt 15 has arrived 2 days ago, but my cable still stuck in SG.


----------



## Frederick Wang

cingcut said:


> my pt 15 has arrived 2 days ago, but my cable still stuck in SG.


 
 Wow, they shipped you a really long cable


----------



## Ira Delphic

music4mhell said:


> clieos said:
> 
> 
> > frederick wang said:
> ...


 
  
 The PT15 isn't for everyone...or all types of music. IMO **** did a really good job at their first earbud. The high resolution is very good for critical listening. The only downside - and not insignificant - is fit, or lack of. The "bud" is big and like I said before I believe it doesn't allow for it to provide a good seal over the opening of the ear canal which reduces bass. 
  
 Edit - if you use Poweramp (the Android app) setting the EQ to BASS preset solves the problem! I've been leaving it on. For me, it yields perfection. But that shouldn't be necessary if it was tuned right...


----------



## Brandon7s

music4mhell said:


> Just received 2 **** PT15.. Silver and black cable both ..Rose Masya and K500 !!
> At las the wait is over !


 
  
  I really want to hear a three way comparison from you between the Rose Masya, K500, and the TY HP-650. I have both the Masya and the HP-650, though my 650 is still in the process of burning in.
  
 Also would love to know what you think of the xDuoo X3 for driving the HP-650? No other amp, just the X3 itself. Despite folks saying that the HP-650 is easier to drive than the TY Hi-Z 320Ohms, I think it's actually a small bit more difficult to drive than the TY 320Ohms earbud. I have to max out my S7 Edge's volume in order to make either one uncomfortably loud, but the 320 is still slightly louder at that maximum volume. This has me curious about getting a standalone DAP. However, I'm not certain what the good options are at a sub-$250 price range but I've been looking at the xDuoo X3 recently. Does it drive the HP-650 reasonably well?


----------



## kim7135

frederick wang said:


> Wow, they shipped you a really long cable


 
 This comment^ HAHAHA
  
 Nice one, Frederick. 
  
 Seeing how everyone highly rates the PT15 (for now), I regret not getting it during the 11.11 sale as it somewhat suits my sound sig :/


----------



## BloodyPenguin

ira delphic said:


> The PT15 isn't for everyone...or all types of music. IMO **** did a really good job at their first earbud. The high resolution is very good for critical listening. The only downside - and not insignificant - is fit, or lack of. The "bud" is big and like I said before I believe it doesn't allow for it to provide a good seal over the opening of the ear canal which reduces bass.
> 
> Edit - if you use Poweramp (the Android app) setting the EQ to BASS preset solves the problem! I've been leaving it on. For me, it yields perfection. But that shouldn't be necessary if it was tuned right...


 
  
 Right on, I agree with you 100%.  I refuse to EQ any of my other earbuds, but with **** PT15 I make an exception.  It does need a bit of bass boost.  

 I like the earbud, it does a lot well like you say, but it can be picky what types of music it likes to work with.  I also feel that getting a better seal will help.  I have tried doubling up foam covers and it seems to help a little bit.
  
  
  
 BTW - Does anyone know if **** has an official webpage or anything?  I can't seem to find one.
  
 --


----------



## golov17

**** Taobao
 http://shop105586531.m.taobao.com/?spm=a1z5f.7632052.0.0#list


----------



## Ira Delphic

golov17 said:


> **** Taobao
> http://shop105586531.m.taobao.com/?spm=a1z5f.7632052.0.0#list


 
  
 What's up with the Taobao prices? PT15 shows up as 176 Yuan (USD$26) and the 4in1 12 Yuan?


----------



## golov17

ira delphic said:


> What's up with the Taobao prices? PT15 shows up as 176 Yuan (USD$26) and the 4in1 12 Yuan?


----------



## vapman

I had thrown my PT15 across the room to never be seen again after my first 10 minutes with them, but I'll give them another shot. Some people said to me to give it another shot with more EQ so I will try that out.
  
 In the meantime my three SHE3800 have arrived! None are J-cables sadly so I'll not feel bad about recabling any of them. Time to listen and then break them open and see what they're capable of...
  
 edit: Not sure what the impedance is on these, or the driver sensitivity. They need to be turned up as loud as some of my high impedance buds for a good volume. But oh man, what clarity, what soundstage and bass response! I am entirely a fool for passing on these for months and months. I see (hear?) some extremely promising modding material.
  
  
 In an A/B comparison with my other headphones, it has much of the sound of the Qian25, but a more relaxed (same extension) treble, smoother mids and more energetic (but not really any deeper) bass. It still doesn't come quite close to my modded Qian39, but it's so good for the price. I'll have to keep one stock and bust open the other two for SCIENCE!
  
 But yeah I am an idiot for refusing to buy these for so long.


----------



## ld100

Got mine **** PT15. Finally... Not sure if I absolutely hate them or they are ok. They are so bright... So so bright, and I am not into bright sound at all. But at the same time there is something that makes them fun. I wonder if burn it will make any difference... I will give them another try tomorrow after leaving them to burn overnight. Have no problem with the fit. I am even tempted to say that I like the fit. One thing for sure the build quality is nice and I really like that wire can be swapped. I just wish they would not be that bright.


----------



## vapman

ld100 said:


> Got mine **** PT15. Finally... Not sure if I absolutely hate them or they are ok. They are so bright... So so bright, and I am not into bright sound at all. But at the same time there is something that makes them fun. I wonder if burn it will make any difference... I will give the another try tomorrow after leaving them to burn overnight. Have no problem with the fit. I am even tempted to say that I like the fit. One think for sure build quality is nice and I really like that wire can be swapped. I just wish they would not be that bright.


 

 They remind me of the Etymotic HF5 but in an earbud. I always liked the HF5 more than the ER4 and will probably make my own 1/4" terminated MMCX cable with something like 10 feet of wire for studio use to bring out all the flaws in the recordings. But mah oh man would they be painful to use for a daily earbud.
  
  
 On another note I can confirm none of my SHE3800 sound anything like any of my Edifiers. Either it's a clone of another Edifier model or it truly is a hidden great driver in this cheapo. Man oh man am I kicking myself for refusing to buy a set for so long. I really think they will mod very well.


----------



## cingcut

frederick wang said:


> Wow, they shipped you a really long cable


 
  
you've made my day.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> They remind me of the Etymotic HF5 but in an earbud. I always liked the HF5 more than the ER4 and will probably make my own 1/4" terminated MMCX cable with something like 10 feet of wire for studio use to bring out all the flaws in the recordings. But mah oh man would they be painful to use for a daily earbud.
> 
> [rule]
> On another note I can confirm none of my SHE3800 sound anything like any of my Edifiers. Either it's a clone of another Edifier model or it truly is a hidden great driver in this cheapo. Man oh man am I kicking myself for refusing to buy a set for so long. I really think they will mod very well.


 Five years ago, she3800 already going, while there were nothing of the Edifier earbuds in manufacture


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> Five years ago, she3800 already going, while there were nothing of the Edifier earbuds in manufacture


 

 Interesting!!!!! I wonder if the drivers have been the same all this time?


----------



## luckyeights

So i got a package today.  My masya and **** pt15 came!!!!  WOOT.

So I am first starting off with the pt15.  They out of the box are more focused on highs and bass is recessed,  these buds are very energetic fatigueingly so.  They are very precise and detailed.   So i said lets see how these EQ.  AND OMG DO THEY EQ LIKE BEASTS 

I boosted bass by 28 db and there is no distortion and the rest of the frequencies are just as crisp.  I believe they EQ so well because of how stiff the domes are being made of carbon means they can handle the eq with out the driver flexing and distorting.  Really guys EQ these things and be like damn BASSS.  I have the ty650 and you cant boost them to this level with out affecting the rest of the frequencies.  With the ty650 if you boost past 10db the rest of the frequencies start to sound like they are under water. 

Note the pt15s are supper revealing and sensitive.  Expect to hear every flaw. Also i find them to be very energetic and are very fatiguing sadly.  I will continue to play with eq to see if i can make them less fatiguing.  But bass lovers dont run away from these if you dont mind eqing and the high energy they bring these can achieve some serious bass and hit the low frequencies without a sweat too.   However i do not recommend these for extended listening sessions they just have too much energy.

On to the Masya.  I am kinda of shocked really as to how close they sound to the pt15 as far as initial sound signature is concerned high frequency focused very detailed and bass recessed.  But the Masyas are much less fatiguing "not as energetic" .  The masyas also EQ in the bass department very well.  With a dedicated bass driver unit they extend the lowest (bass boosted mind you) you out of all my ear buds.  They also boost to near ear bleeding bass levels they actually can have a rumble to them =D.   So far they are really good but they are a little fatiguing and highs can be a little overwhelming at times.   

Mids are similar on both being realistic sounding not warm and not cold.  Masya Actually being slightly warmer.

Highs i would say the pt15 is maybe a little more extended then the masya but i dont know if that is a good or a bad thing.  The pt15 most certainly has the most focus on highs but the masya is no slouch.  For me both have a little too much focus on the highs.  Masya is just the more tolerable out of the two.

Bass stock pretty much the same boosted the masya wins, extends lower with that dedicated bass driver.  

Both the pt15 and masya blow the water out of the ty650 in detail retrieval and resolution.  They also make the ty650 feel veiled and incompetent.  The pt15 and masya to me are very close but the pt15s are way more energetic and fatiguing.  I find listening to the masyas at a lower volume than i normally would, less fatiguing and still i can get all the juicy details.  The masya is quickly becoming my favorite ear bud.  I just hope with burn in they lose that slight fatigue they give me.

Masya wins out in slightly warmer/lush mids, better extension on the low end (boosted) and less fatiguing and slightly more tame highs over pt15.

But really if the pt15s were not so energetic they would be absolutely fantastically amazing for how cheap they are.  

These are just my initial impression will see what they are like after they burn in some.

All listening was done on a schitt stack modi multi bit and magni 2 uber.  

*note both the pt15 and masya pick up a fair amount of static floor in this setup due to how sensitive they are.  I will try my dac port slim and xd-05 tomorrow.  Peace out!

*** I lied.... I decided to plug both into my splitter and the massa Def has the more extended highs and slightly brighter. I think the energy of the pt15s threw me off a little when a bing them. My goodness though how close the two headphones are. Will see how things stand after burn in.


----------



## JASru

vapman said:


> I had thrown my PT15 across the room to never be seen again after my first 10 minutes with them, but I'll give them another shot. Some people said to me to give it another shot with more EQ so I will try that out.
> 
> In the meantime my three SHE3800 have arrived! None are J-cables sadly so I'll not feel bad about recabling any of them. Time to listen and then break them open and see what they're capable of...
> 
> ...


 Congrats! My second three piece batch is almost at my post office


----------



## Frederick Wang

PT15 starts to corporealize after many impressions.

One thing I learned for sure, do people have different preferences!


----------



## vapman

luckyeights said:


> So I am first starting off with the pt15.  They out of the box are more focused on highs and bass is recessed,  these buds are very energetic fatigueingly so.  They are very precise and detailed.   So i said lets see how these EQ.  AND OMG DO THEY EQ LIKE BEASTS
> 
> *I boosted bass by 28 db and there is no distortion* and the rest of the frequencies are just as crisp.



Now you're talkin my language!!!! However this is the kind of thing I do 24/7... except apparently not when I tested my PT15 the first time. Apparently I had my EQ disabled for the last few days which explains a lot. Oops.

Anyway, put my heavy EQ back on, and found although they're not the bassiest ones I have, they are very very impressive when heavy bass EQ is applied. i commend you for not being scared to boost so much 

But I have to admit you're correct. *They do out-bass the TY 650.* and the TY 650 did start distorting before the PT15. But regardless they are still bright even with a heavy amount of high frequencies cut out as much as the EQ will allow, and I am not sure if I can say they have better bass quality than the TY 650.

I would be in love with the PT15 if there was more midrange presence and it just  wasn't so bright.

P.S. My only MMCX cables were from some IEMs so they have memory wire near next to the MMCX connectors. This annoyed me at first but I quickly found they fit much more comfortably when worn over the ear, kind of like the alternate way of wearing the RX-1.



28dB? ha! try 36dB!


so thanks for posting that or  I might have never tried the **** ever again. 

.....qian39 still beats both for bass  

[rule]
Edit: in a bass off the PT15 is second only to a stock Qian39 but gets the edge on clarity. Damn, I really overlooked these. I used some car audio subwoofer tests including a resonance test track which lots of earbuds just completely fail at. I need to kill the treble as much as possible when I use them but everything else is spot on. Like I said I wish the mids were more present. All in all, well done ****.


I am fairly positive i will end up re-shelling mine. I constantly disconnect the MMCX by accident and it is maddening. I have to admit hearing these with the bass boosted and highs cut is a whole different thing.


----------



## Anthony Frandi

Im looking for balanced type, what should get for $30 budget?
I like to every genre of music


----------



## Danneq

anthony frandi said:


> Im looking for balanced type, what should get for $30 budget?
> I like to every genre of music


 

 Welcome to the place that will eat your money!

 Based on your budget and what you are looking for, my suggestion would be to start with Monk+. It's only $5 but could easily be sold for $30-40. It's that good. Personally I do not think there are any earbuds around $30-40 that can beat Monk+.

 EDIT: Well, perhaps Musicmaker Tomahawk, which now costs around $40. But it's not as neutral as Monk+ and it's a love/hate earbud with about 50% loving it and 50% hating it. I'm one of those who love it.


----------



## JASru

vapman said:


> Now you're talkin my language!!!! However this is the kind of thing I do 24/7... except apparently not when I tested my PT15 the first time. Apparently I had my EQ disabled for the last few days which explains a lot. Oops.
> 
> Anyway, put my heavy EQ back on, and found although they're not the bassiest ones I have, they are very very impressive when heavy bass EQ is applied. i commend you for not being scared to boost so much
> 
> ...


 
 Looks like a very promising bassis(=D) for modding/tuning, ain't it?


----------



## Anthony Frandi

danneq said:


> Welcome to the place that will eat your money!
> 
> 
> Based on your budget and what you are looking for, my suggestion would be to start with Monk+. It's only $5 but could easily be sold for $30-40. It's that good. Personally I do not think there are any earbuds around $30-40 that can beat Monk+.
> ...



i honestly have some earbuds in my list like toneking tp 16, auglamour rx1, and sheafh 32, still confuse on what to get since u mentioned monk+


----------



## vapman

jasru said:


> Looks like a very promising bassis(=D) for modding/tuning, ain't it?


 

 shh....... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 After all my hundreds - thousands? dollars spent on buying and modding earbuds I think I have a good taste of what has modding potential and what doesn't.
  
 I have some wild ideas for the **** driver is some other shells and if all goes well I am praying we see a Cygnus killer soon.


----------



## JASru

vapman said:


> shh.......
> 
> After all my hundreds - thousands? dollars spent on buying and modding earbuds I think I have a good taste of what has modding potential and what doesn't.
> 
> I have some wild ideas for the **** driver is some other shells and if all goes well I am praying we see a Cygnus killer soon.


 Looks you gotta get rid of the witnesses soon


----------



## Danneq

anthony frandi said:


> i honestly have some earbuds in my list like toneking tp 16, auglamour rx1.


 


 I haven't heard TP16 yet. I bought a pair a pair on Ali express a few weeks ago and it should arrive soon.
 Had AuGlamour RX-1 and sold them. Mids are lovely. Bass is lacking a bit if you do not get a good fit (an extra pair of rubber/silicon/ rings on them will make them more secure in your ear if they are too loose). I think that Monk+ has got an overall more balanced sound than RX-1.


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> I haven't heard TP16 yet. I bought a pair a pair on Ali express a few weeks ago and it should arrive soon.
> Had AuGlamour RX-1 and sold them. Mids are lovely. Bass is lacking a bit if you do not get a good fit (an extra pair of rubber/silicon/ rings on them will make them more secure in your ear if they are too loose). I think that Monk+ has got an overall more balanced sound than RX-1.


 
  
 You liked Tomahawk and you like the RX1 mids and you like sparkly treble. I think the PT15 will be good for you. let me know if the MMCX cable poses too many issues. I am working on a plan to hard wire these bad boys but it is still in R&D phases. I also aim to put it in a more resonant shell.
  
 tbh i was going to send them to you for free but the above posters made me realize it is actually pretty bass capable. excited to see how these burn i sorry danneq.... but you have all those Cypherius coming in....


----------



## Anthony Frandi

danneq said:


> I haven't heard TP16 yet. I bought a pair a pair on Ali express a few weeks ago and it should arrive soon.
> 
> Had AuGlamour RX-1 and sold them. Mids are lovely. Bass is lacking a bit if you do not get a good fit (an extra pair of rubber/silicon/ rings on them will make them more secure in your ear if they are too loose). I think that Monk+ has got an overall more balanced sound than RX-1.



will wait for you to try haha


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> you like sparkly treble


 


 Well, as long as I can keep it sparkly without becoming harsh or sharp. There is a very fine line and it might depend on synergy with the DAP I'm using.

 I've got a pair of PT15 incoming as well. It was so cheap that I couldn't help myself!

 Right now I'm struggling with the "Dark Horse" earbuds. They have great potential but it feels like a single driver "baby version" of Mojito. Right now it's not exactly what I'm looking for. The analogue type of sound of QFred has seduced me...


----------



## Danneq

anthony frandi said:


> will wait for you to try haha


 


 Everyone seems to do that...


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> Well, as long as I can keep it sparkly without becoming harsh or sharp. There is a very fine line and it might depend on synergy with the DAP I'm using.
> 
> I've got a pair of PT15 incoming as well. It was so cheap that I couldn't help myself!
> 
> Right now I'm struggling with the "Dark Horse" earbuds. They have great potential but it feels like a single driver "baby version" of Mojito. Right now it's not exactly what I'm looking for. The analogue type of sound of QFred has seduced me...


 

 If you have any memory cable wires around try wearing it like I do in the post over. I think it will be source dependent too. I find it too bright or harsh with no EQ on certain players but cutting the highs out hard and boosting the bass hard gives a great sound which is nice and clear throughout. something like the old extra bass Sony drivers. I am gonna have lots of fun playing with this one. And by god I am going to rewire these hopefully sooner rather than later >_<


----------



## Anthony Frandi

danneq said:


> Everyone seems to do that...



im not such in hurry, just ordered xduoo x10, still plenty of time to decide on what should i get


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> Everyone seems to do that...


 

 You talkin' bout the Cypheus buds? I'm in for one as soon as I clear out some more of my earbud stock. Too bad no locals give a damn about earbuds.
  
 I saw a guy pay 6 bucks for some horrendous looking earbuds from 7-11 today. If I had any of my spares I would have sold him a TY 32 or Monk for a fiver.


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> You talkin' bout the Cypheus buds? I'm in for one as soon as I clear out some more of my earbud stock. Too bad no locals give a damn about earbuds.
> 
> I saw a guy pay 6 bucks for some horrendous looking earbuds from 7-11 today. If I had any of my spares I would have sold him a TY 32 or Monk for a fiver.


 

 When I think about it, @music4mhell beats me both in buying earbuds and people's expectation of him to compare earbuds and share his impressions.

 It's a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it...


 By the way, I like when they hand out pocket tissue in Japan. It would be good to do that with Monk+. Hand it out to people who use generic crappy earbuds.


----------



## Danneq

Here are the "Dark Horse ES-E2", or 调音师 三频女王 (Sound Tuner's "Queen"), by the way (not my photos as usual, I borrowed the photos from the Easy store on Ali Express, who used to sell them):








 Beautiful and open  back just like Celsus Gramo One and Erqu EQ300. If I put my fingers over the vent, the sound changes and starts to remind me a bit of old FM radio.

 This makes isolation worse than regular earbuds and also more sound leaks out. If the sharp highs could tame a bit they are quite decent for the price (around $38 on Taobao, excluding shipping). Bass is quite good but mids are a bit distant and "cold" sounding.


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > You talkin' bout the Cypheus buds? I'm in for one as soon as I clear out some more of my earbud stock. Too bad no locals give a damn about earbuds.
> ...


 
 True, i really have to spend some good time and compare at least all the high end earbuds.. i can see i have done some mistakes while ordering.. my comparison will help others not to waste money on mirages 
  
 Sorry buddies, but once i get my Zen black.. i will do the ultimate clash on titan with my local headfi colleague .. and will choose top 5 earbuds with full description on every aspects like FQ, Soundstage, Separation, Tonality etc etc.. some1 has to do it..
  
 i will take the initiative .. but i need more time....just now i feel like i completed the burning time of Shozy Stardust ! so it will take some time..
  
 but better late and precise than quick and wrong !


----------



## golov17

O_o


----------



## Townyj

golov17 said:


> O_o




AudioGlamour amp huh? Hmmmm


----------



## vapman

I'll wait for some output specs personally.... looks not condusive to pocket wear either!


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> I'll wait for some output specs personally.... looks not condusive to pocket wear either!


unknown specs and price, demo unit


----------



## JASru

Looks awesome. The price can be xpected to be high. The custom made cases cost a fortune.


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> When I think about it, @music4mhell beats me both in buying earbuds and people's expectation of him to compare earbuds and share his impressions.
> 
> It's a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it...
> 
> ...


 
 Man I saw a guy in a 7-11 holding up a line trying to buy some crappy earbuds. I was sad I didn't have like 4 extra sets on my life usual  or I woulda tossed him a Monk (or TY 32 hahahaha) for like $5.
  
 On another note, while wearing the PT15 over ear works wonderfully, god DAMN does it disconnect if a feather drops a mile away. These are getting the heck recabled out of them. I am a big MMCX hater though.


----------



## JASru

vapman said:


> Man I saw a guy in a 7-11 holding up a line trying to buy some crappy earbuds. I was sad I didn't have like 4 extra sets on my life usual  or I woulda tossed him a Monk (or TY 32 hahahaha) for like $5.
> 
> On another note, while wearing the PT15 over ear works wonderfully, god DAMN does it disconnect if a feather drops a mile away. These are getting the heck recabled out of them. I am a big MMCX hater though.


 
 I use mmcx cable-earphone every day - no problems. Not a single disconnect or trouble. Have you tried it with different one?


----------



## vapman

jasru said:


> I use mmcx cable-earphone every day - no problems. Not a single disconnect or trouble. Have you tried it with different one?


 
 I only have one with memory wires like  this. Imagine being re-bent to hold  a PT15 in the right positive. In othe day it went from trash almost in the garbage to a true winner.
  
 Not sure i'm i am getting used to the strong treble or if I'm losing my high frequencies early haha.
  

  
 I am liking these more and more, despite the overly bright character (Which can be EQ'd away but for now I can't for more shells to arrive from Aliexpress so I can get to messing with these more. If I culd listed to these for more than 10 minutes without knocking one cable out I'd be excstatic.
  
 Wish I still had those Linux BAX MMCX's


----------



## vapman

jasru said:


> I use mmcx cable-earphone every day - no problems. Not a single disconnect or trouble. Have you tried it with different one?


 

 Yeah, i have a lot of trouble with them. 2 pins? no probem. But MMCX and I have a tendency to not get a long well. Without even thinking about it i'll rip an earbud out by  moving one of my arms.
  
 Never a problem of 2 pin buds or hardwired buts but holy christ I can't count how many times I knocked the
  
 Free **** PT15 shells to anyone once my project of swapping drivers is done...


----------



## Willber

danneq said:


> anthony frandi said:
> 
> 
> > Im looking for balanced type, what should get for $30 budget?
> ...


 
  
 Hi Anthony, I agree with Danneq that Monk+ is a good place to start, but at the same price (~$5) I would add Qian39, SHE3800 and TY Hi-Z 32. All are a bit v-shaped but cover the whole frequency range well with good clarity and soundstage. For the same price as the RX-1 (~$22) I would favour the EO320. It has the detail of the RX-1 but with much better bass. It is cooler and more analytical than the first three I mentioned but very balanced, I find. Also it is beautifully made. If you get all of my suggestions it will cost you about $40 and provide an excellent range of sounds.
  
 Edit: I will add that the four I suggested all have different shells so you can see which shapes and sizes fit you best.


----------



## Saoshyant

@vapman I wish my PT15 had arrived already, but if it doesn't show up in 5 days I might just try to get Aliexpress to not release payment to HCK.  Also, I think I'll be going through my collection and sorting out what I don't use, which'll most likely be cleaning out the inexpensive clutter.  If I decide to do it, I'll have to wait for after the 1More & Qian39 arrive.


----------



## JASru

vapman said:


> Yeah, i have a lot of trouble with them. 2 pins? no probem. But MMCX and I have a tendency to not get a long well. Without even thinking about it i'll rip an earbud out by  moving one of my arms.
> 
> Never a problem of 2 pin buds or hardwired buts but holy christ I can't count how many times I knocked the
> 
> Free **** PT15 shells to anyone once my project of swapping drivers is done...


 
 It really depends on cable and socket. I have 3 mmcx cables - stock Rose cable, Tennmak cable and HCK cheapo cable(black with green lines) - the Tennmak cable has almost no space between connector and  the housing,  which prevents the rotation ( it may be rotated, but it ain't easy) and disconnection ( no shaking - no problem). 

 I really wonder how long the socket will last, but that's another issue. 

 Btw, how complicated it is to fit mmcx connector into MX500 housing? Anyone tried this?


----------



## Anthony Frandi

willber said:


> Hi Anthony, I agree with Danneq that Monk+ is a good place to start, but at the same price (~$5) I would add Qian39, SHE3800 and TY Hi-Z 32. All are a bit v-shaped but cover the whole frequency range well with good clarity and soundstage. For the same price as the RX-1 (~$22) I would favour the EO320. It has the detail of the RX-1 but with much better bass. It is cooler and more analytical than the first three I mentioned but very balanced, I find. Also it is beautifully made. If you get all of my suggestions it will cost you about $40 and provide an excellent range of sounds.
> 
> Edit: I will add that the four I suggested all have different shells so you can see which shapes and sizes fit you best.


 
 thank you for the advice, to be honest Im not the type of buying several same things, I end up using 1 more often and the other will be lost in space.
 but, those earbuds is darn cheap, i might rethink about buying them all
 is EO320 made by 1more? it has mic too right?


----------



## golov17

anthony frandi said:


> thank you for the advice, to be honest Im not the type of buying several same things, I end up using 1 more often and the other will be lost in space.
> 
> but, those earbuds is darn cheap, i might rethink about buying them all
> 
> is EO320 made by 1more? it has mic too right?


3-button for IOS & Android


----------



## Willber

anthony frandi said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Anthony, I agree with Danneq that Monk+ is a good place to start, but at the same price (~$5) I would add Qian39, SHE3800 and TY Hi-Z 32. All are a bit v-shaped but cover the whole frequency range well with good clarity and soundstage. For the same price as the RX-1 (~$22) I would favour the EO320. It has the detail of the RX-1 but with much better bass. It is cooler and more analytical than the first three I mentioned but very balanced, I find. Also it is beautifully made. If you get all of my suggestions it will cost you about $40 and provide an excellent range of sounds.
> ...


 
 Yes to both questions.
 If you buy them all I don't think you'll be disappointed in all of them depending on your preferences. Personally, I like (and use) them all.


----------



## luckyeights

Ok so today after about a 10 hour burn in on the pt15 and masya here are my final thoughts on the two.  I have switched to the dacport slim as it is more earbud/iem friendly. 
  
 Masya - extends higher than the pt15 and extends lower and mids are warmer.  These are bright headphones detailed and revealing.  I find them a little too bright for my liking, but not sibilant.  But they do EQ well, however they are lacking in the transitional area between bass and mids "mid bass".  The Highs can be a little overwhelming at times. 
  
 PT15 - Highs emphasized ear buds, they dont extend as high as masya but the highs are clearly emphasized.   The highs are just at a higher more emphasized volume than the rest of the frequencies.   Mids are similar to the masya, slightly cooler not as warm but they still sound natural.  Bass does not extend as low but they are close in presence un-EQed once you start to boost the Masya pulls away and the pt15 falls behind.    The energy they had before burn in is reduced but they are still fairly energetic and i find them still a little fatiguing.  
  
 Overall i like the Masya over the pt15 the only issues is that lack luster area in the mid bass department but what can you do, its most likly caused by the cross over between the bass and the mid/highs driver.  The pt15 is still a pretty dang good bud for the price and would recommend you pick one up just to hear what it sounds like as they are pretty dang good for how much they are.


----------



## Anthony Frandi

this is the 


willber said:


> Yes to both questions.
> If you buy them all I don't think you'll be disappointed in all of them depending on your preferences. Personally, I like (and use) them all.


 
 i found many articles about this is better than this, and it will never end because of personal preference
 but until now, I almost reach my final choice, between auglamour rx1 or 1more eo320,or maybe I will get both
 auglamour by some articles said it has very good vocal but dont have much bass
 1more eo320, many articles said it is bad(i even dont know why), but it has very nice design, and it has high rank based on thread starter list.
 and the biggest problem is my ears are not trained to know about the characteristic of music peripherals, and I dont know why im struggling so much


----------



## luckyeights

Vapman i caved and ordered two pairs of Qian 39s.  Guess we will see how they stack up when they get here.


----------



## Willber

anthony frandi said:


> this is the
> 
> 
> willber said:
> ...


 
 Yes, that is correct about the RX-1 having little bass. It is the only one of my buds that I don't use because of this.
  
 The EO320 is very good IMO and that of others on here. One problem is that it looks almost identical to the earlier EO303 which is tuned differently and very few people seem to like. It's important to get the right version (as golov mentioned, it has Android and IOS compatibility).
  
 But I would still start with the cheapies if I were you, if only to see which type of signature you favour.


----------



## Anthony Frandi

willber said:


> Yes, that is correct about the RX-1 having little bass. It is the only one of my buds that I don't use because of this.
> 
> The EO320 is very good IMO and that of others on here. One problem is that it looks almost identical to the earlier EO303 which is tuned differently and very few people seem to like. It's important to get the right version (as golov mentioned, it has Android and IOS compatibility).
> 
> But I would still start with the cheapies if I were you, if only to see which type of signature you favour.


 
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/original-1More-earPod-Piston-super-bass-Earphone-Headset-metal-Earbud-with-Remote-Mic-for-Xiaomi-Redmi/32733897425.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.264.7tJA7g
 is this the right version?
 Is it weird if I said I like the sound of earbud that was included in samsung smartphone?


----------



## Willber

anthony frandi said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, that is correct about the RX-1 having little bass. It is the only one of my buds that I don't use because of this.
> ...


 
 The site you linked supplies both versions. To avoid confusion here is the shop I used:
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1More-Piston-Pod-Earbud-Headphones-Headset-Earphone-with-Remote-Mic-Retail-Box-for-Xiaomi-Note-Mi/32660452812.html
  
 It's not weird to like the Samsung buds BUT if you do you will probably like the cheap ones I suggested...


----------



## haiku

willber said:


> The site you linked supplies both versions. To avoid confusion here is the shop I used:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1More-Piston-Pod-Earbud-Headphones-Headset-Earphone-with-Remote-Mic-Retail-Box-for-Xiaomi-Note-Mi/32660452812.html
> 
> It's not weird to like the Samsung buds BUT if you do you will probably like the cheap ones I suggested...


 

 Yup, or get a Monk first. Better to give yourself and your listening some time to evolve....


----------



## Ira Delphic

haiku said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > The site you linked supplies both versions. To avoid confusion here is the shop I used:
> ...


 
  
 +1 and the Monk also has versions with inline controls now if you need that. Never underestimate the Monk+. It's great!


----------



## Willber

ira delphic said:


> haiku said:
> 
> 
> > willber said:
> ...


 

 Well, Monk+ was included in the cheap buds I first mentioned. But I still think Anthony should get more than one (why not all?) of them for comparison purposes, especially as they are different sizes and shapes as well.


----------



## Brandon7s

willber said:


> Yes, that is correct about the RX-1 having little bass. It is the only one of my buds that I don't use because of this.
> 
> The EO320 is very good IMO and that of others on here. One problem is that it looks almost identical to the earlier EO303 which is tuned differently and very few people seem to like. It's important to get the right version (as golov mentioned, it has Android and IOS compatibility).
> 
> But I would still start with the cheapies if I were you, if only to see which type of signature you favour.


 

  While the RX-1 is definitely lacking in bass, for some reason it is the absolutely perfect earbuds for listening to podcast/audiobooks! Not sure exactly why I prefer it for that over all my other buds, but that's one thing I've noticed about them.


----------



## golov17




----------



## luckyeights

Hey whats a good cable for the Rose Masya?   The stock one is awful it looks and feels so cheap.


----------



## LaRzZa

Massdrop - Venture Electronics Monk Plus Exclusive Blue https://www.massdrop.com/buy/venture-electronics-monk-plus-earbud?mode=guest_open


----------



## golov17

luckyeights said:


> Hey whats a good cable for the Rose Masya?   The stock one is awful it looks and feels so cheap.


 Tennmak earphone detachable cable with microphone 
 http://s.aliexpress.com/zeeUZRvY 
 TENNMAK 100% original PCOCC upgrade cable / detach /replace cable 4 cores ,for IE80 / TF10 / UM3x / SE535 earphone earbud
 http://s.aliexpress.com/rIfEzUFv


----------



## fleasbaby

larzza said:


> Massdrop - Venture Electronics Monk Plus Exclusive Blue https://www.massdrop.com/buy/venture-electronics-monk-plus-earbud?mode=guest_open


 
  
  
 Thanks for the heads up .
  
 The Monks are amazing. I actually find myself using them every day now, and since I got the ones with an iOS mic, I don't even keep a pair of earpods on hand. 
  
 That said, I got a pair of the Shozy BK in the mail a couple of days ago, and am giving them a whirl. They are pretty good. Sound is very clear, great separation and soundstage. Bass is typical for Shozy. Those familiar with the Alien and the Cygnus know what I am talking about....that organic, easy-going, analogue-style bass...
  
 The cable is intriguing. Very ropey, with a vaguely rubbery feel. It tangles easily when bundled up, but when extended out in use i fine. No excessive microphonics or anything.
  
 The buds themselves are heavy. Not sure if its the driver. The housing is still the Yuin-style one, so it can't be that.


----------



## luckyeights

Sigh the quest for balance that is sound quality.  The masya reveal so many details iv never heard before like symbols and bells i didnt even know were part of the music.  Problem is that if i dont drop the high frequencies down my ears start to hurt and get overwhelmed.  So now I am trying to find the balance between detail and not destroying my ears lol.


----------



## golov17

luckyeights said:


> Sigh the quest for balance that is sound quality.  The masya reveal so many details iv never heard before like symbols and bells i didnt even know were part of the music.  Problem is that if i dont drop the high frequencies down my ears start to hurt and get overwhelmed.  So now I am trying to find the balance between detail and not destroying my ears lol.


thick full foams, maybe..


----------



## Nachash

vapman said:


> I had thrown my PT15 across the room to never be seen again after my first 10 minutes with them, but I'll give them another shot. Some people said to me to give it another shot with more EQ so I will try that out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 
Yes, those "Philips" are great. My favorite of the bunch that I own.

Can't wait for the PT15 to arrive, do they keep up with fast/congested music?


----------



## Brandon7s

golov17 said:


> thick full foams, maybe..


 

 I've tried double foaming with Hiegi's. It helps a bit but there's still some crazy treble spikes that it doesn't take. And you lose a lot of the mids doing it, too. I'm going to try different amount of layers of surgical tape once my roll gets in this weekend, but I'm not terribly optimistic.


----------



## bonglee23

Hi all, long time reader since the start of this thread.
 Hadn't checked in for quite some time and was surprised that this quiet little thread had turned into a 900-page monster. Seems the ear bud mnarket has really taken off - good for us :-D
 Anyway, I already own a Senn MX580 (which has been, and still is, my favorite bud ever), a BEB 328, Hisound PAA1 pro, and Tingo TC38 (kings of treble).
 I was delighted to read that, apart from some really high-end offerings, there are some new budget kings in the field.
 Fast forward 4 weeks, now I am listening to a pair of Monk+ and Quian39, still trying to decide which one I like better.
 Love the bass on the Quian, and the fit is perfect for me (rather small ears it seems). However, highs sound a bit veiled at times. Need to do some more testing.
 Monk is a great all-rounder, but I'm having troubles getting a good fit, which really makes the difference for good sound. So at the moment the Quians have the advantage, but I'll give them both a good spin, comparing them to my current inventory.
  
 Steve


----------



## Doori

Hy, any idea where an european like me can find Erqu EQ100?
Thx!


----------



## Willber

doori said:


> Hy, any idea where an european like me can find Erqu EQ100?
> Thx!


 
 Maybe here:
  
 http://www.diytrade.com/china/pd/12555015/ERQU_ear_headphones_brand_enthusiasts_HiFi_Metal_Piston.html?r=0


----------



## golov17

willber said:


> Maybe here:
> 
> http://www.diytrade.com/china/pd/12555015/ERQU_ear_headphones_brand_enthusiasts_HiFi_Metal_Piston.html?r=0


min. order: 100 pcs, lol


----------



## golov17

doori said:


> Hy, any idea where an european like me can find Erqu EQ100?
> Thx!


 http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/44843218258.html
Price without shipping


----------



## golov17

http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/45641461669.html


----------



## Willber

golov17 said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe here:
> ...


 

 Doh!
 (Group buy? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## tintheman

Hi, does anyone know the difference among Erqu EQ300, 301 and 302? Golov's links with 3 different models with different prices and they look the same on the shells.


----------



## golov17

tintheman said:


> Hi, does anyone know the difference among Erqu EQ300, 301 and 302? Golov's links with 3 different models with different prices and they look the same on the shells.


 https://erqu.m.tmall.com/shop/shop_auction_search.htm?sort=default&suid=2454045825&spm=a320p.7692171.1998705856.i1


----------



## Anthony Frandi

just ordered ve monk+


----------



## vapman

jasru said:


> It really depends on cable and socket. I have 3 mmcx cables - stock Rose cable, Tennmak cable and HCK cheapo cable(black with green lines) - the Tennmak cable has almost no space between connector and  the housing,  which prevents the rotation ( it may be rotated, but it ain't easy) and disconnection ( no shaking - no problem).
> 
> 
> I really wonder how long the socket will last, but that's another issue.
> ...


 

 My issue is mmcx was designed for radio stuff that rarely faces dis and reconnects. Twisting the memory wire behind my ear with the pt15, and it pops off. Fresh cable too. I think i would rather hard wire these than leave em disconnectable IMO. Left is fine but right side disconnects if a feather drops across the street. I had this issue with MMCX IEM too. Probably just how i handle them. But like i said, 2 pin TF is king for detachable cables.
  
 BTW how is that Rose 64 compared to K's 64 and Monk Plus? seems 64 ohms is the new hotness.
  
 Edit: Seems that my MisterTao order is ready to ship. So have two pics of the Vido and then I'll let everyone know when they make it 
  
 In other news, I spent almost $100 on DIY earbud components..... if they're not the best sounding buds I've ever heard, I give up!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  


Spoiler: Taobao vidos


----------



## vapman

nachash said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > I had thrown my PT15 across the room to never be seen again after my first 10 minutes with them, but I'll give them another shot. Some people said to me to give it another shot with more EQ so I will try that out.
> ...


 
 The PT15, yes they do.
 I need a LOT of EQ to be cut out or I just can't deal with the brightness.
 Hopefully it will tame a bit with more burn in but I really doubt any noticeable change will happen.
 They are 15mm drivers so I hope to free them from their MMCX shells. Like I said MMCX is fine for IEMs.... that don't get disconnected often.... but man oh man do I knock the cables off these constantly.
  
  
 Anyway, yes they're quite impressive on fast and congested music. Listened to a lot of gabber, digital hardcore, stuff like that. It didn't miss a beat. TY 650 couldn't take as much EQ but when lowered a bit was very very close in bass quantity but gets the edge on clarity. However I think the PT15 is going to quickly go from a "very hated" to a "very loved" bud. If only I can do something about that #$%@#$^@$%^ treble brightness without an EQ. More modding will be required.


----------



## mochill

Burn them in with so drum and bass or bass music


----------



## vapman

mochill said:


> Burn them in with so drum and bass or bass music


 

 This is how I burn in


----------



## gwompki

brandon7s said:


> While the RX-1 is definitely lacking in bass, for some reason it is the absolutely perfect earbuds for listening to podcast/audiobooks! Not sure exactly why I prefer it for that over all my other buds, but that's one thing I've noticed about them.


 
 I agree with this 100%


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, my PT15 is in the US now, but oddly it's in Connecticut, which makes zero sense for a Kansas delivery. I wonder if HCK gave me the wrong tracking.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> Edit: Seems that my MisterTao order is ready to ship. So have two pics of the Vido and then I'll let everyone know when they make it
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Taobao vidos


 
  
 Yep, that is the Vido alright.  Looking forward to your thoughts on them.  I am just so bummed that my last pair I bought of the Vido from MisterTao came broken.  
  
 --


----------



## emusic13

Are the differences between the Mojitos on Aliexpress just whether a cable is included or not? I missed the 11.11 deal so is $230 the normal price?


----------



## golov17

emusic13 said:


> Are the differences between the Mojitos on Aliexpress just whether a cable is included or not? I missed the 11.11 deal so is $230 the normal price?


http://www.head-fi.org/u/290781/mochill


----------



## Frederick Wang

1more E1008 arrived. Shipment took much longer than usual in the wake of the 11.11 havoc. 
 Package & accessory is in a class of its own among all the earbuds I have owned. 
 The only thing I worried about is the nylon-coated cable doesn't have the look to be able to withstand long period of use. 
 Other than that I have absolutely no bone to pick with its form-factor. 
  
  

  
  

  

  
 Will be commenting on the sound after some proper burning-in.


----------



## haiku

frederick wang said:


> 1more E1008 arrived. Shipment took much longer than usual in the wake of the 11.11 havoc.
> Package & accessory is in a class of its own among all the earbuds I have owned.
> The only thing I worried about is the nylon-coated cable doesn't have the look to be able to withstand long period of use.
> Other than that I have absolutely no bone to pick with its form-factor.
> ...


 

 From my experience, that would be around 100hours. With the EO320 the first veil dropped around 30hours, and then around 100hours it really opened up once more. Since then, it outclassed every earbud and iem I´ve listened to, but then I´m listening with a 2000,- USD Dap. The more I´m reading what others think about the SQ, the more I get the impression it´s "garbage in - garbage out" with the 1More earbuds. You really need some high end stuff to make them sing, that´s why I think the advertisement of the 1008 being plugged into the Sony NW-WM1Z is exactly the class they deserve. All IMO.


----------



## ClieOS

My EO320 sounded pretty decent out of the box, and adding well over 100hrs of burn-in doesn't improve my opinion about it. So far my E1008 seems to be just like that as well, likely no magic hours will change it.


----------



## Danneq

Herry of Cypherus told me that he will be in the US on vacation in early December. If there are any people in the US who want to buy a Cypherus earbud but not pay $40 for EMS from Indonesia he can send it with domestic mail within the US while on vacation there...


----------



## Anthony Frandi

So





clieos said:


> My EO320 sounded pretty decent out of the box, and adding well over 100hrs of burn-in doesn't improve my opinion about it. So far my E1008 seems to be just like that as well, likely no magic hours will change it.




so in your opinion, what earbud do you like at eo320 price or a bit higher?
Just ordered ve monk+ for starter, still looking for recommendation for future upgrade


----------



## Frederick Wang

All my current gears are listed in my signature, plus a Zishan dsd player already on its way, I have no plan to buy a NW-WM1Z to make one earbud sing. If it is that picky, I probably won't keep it. 
  
 That being said, my very initial impression from my cellphone is not a bad one. Still having expectations.


----------



## haiku

frederick wang said:


> All my current gears are listed in my signature, plus a Zishan dsd player already on its way, I have no plan to buy a NW-WM1Z to make one earbud sing. If it is that picky, I probably won't keep it.
> 
> That being said, my very initial impression from my cellphone is not a bad one. Still having expectations.


 

 It´s not picky, but my impression with the EO320 is that it´s rather the Dap which is the bottleneck than the 1More when it comes to SQ.....


----------



## Frederick Wang

haiku said:


> It´s not picky, but my impression with the EO320 is that it´s rather the Dap which is the bottleneck than the 1More when it comes to SQ.....


 
 That's good news, I kinda trust my setup.


----------



## golov17

Frigga DS1 Ebony looks wow


----------



## Danneq

Those look nice! But they are probably Frigga expensive...


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> Those look nice! But they are probably Frigga expensive...


prototype only


----------



## ClieOS

anthony frandi said:


> So
> so in your opinion, what earbud do you like at eo320 price or a bit higher?
> Just ordered ve monk+ for starter, still looking for recommendation for future upgrade


 
  
 At its current price around $30 or so, EP320 is a very solid buy. Personally however, I'll probably opt for **** PT15 myself.


----------



## Saoshyant

Danneq Any Cypherus suggestions if I want to request one from them? A couple options would be grand for any considering.


----------



## Danneq

saoshyant said:


> @Danneq Any Cypherus suggestions if I want to request one from them? A couple options would be grand for any considering.


 

 I've only head QFred. CampFred and CAX black should arrive by the end of next week.

 You could start with the cheapest, CampFred ($150). QFred is another $50 and it is more of a mid focused earbud. But I do not think it is as limited as other mid focused earbuds such as Asura 2. The mids are brought a bit more forward on the QFred which is good for vocals. Sub bass isn't the deepest but bass quality is great. Very detailed. Highs are non silibant and soundstage and instrument separation is first class.

 CampFred is supposed to have less focus on mids and is overall more "balanced" sounding.


----------



## golov17

so good for electronic genres, dubstep, trance and more


----------



## Nachash

vapman said:


> My issue is mmcx was designed for radio stuff that rarely faces dis and reconnects. Twisting the memory wire behind my ear with the pt15, and it pops off. Fresh cable too. I think i would rather hard wire these than leave em disconnectable IMO. Left is fine but right side disconnects if a feather drops across the street. I had this issue with MMCX IEM too. Probably just how i handle them. But like i said, 2 pin TF is king for detachable cables.
> 
> BTW how is that Rose 64 compared to K's 64 and Monk Plus? seems 64 ohms is the new hotness.
> 
> ...


 

 Those fingernails though ...


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> Herry of Cypherus told me that he will be in the US on vacation in early December. If there are any people in the US who want to buy a Cypherus earbud but not pay $40 for EMS from Indonesia he can send it with domestic mail within the US while on vacation there...




This would be awesome for me. Did he say where he's visiting or is that classified information?

Nachash yeah..... Lol


----------



## Frederick Wang

10 hours later, I don't think E1008 performs on the same level as PT15, it's clearly not as clear, I give up.


----------



## mochill

frederick wang said:


> 10 hours later, I don't think E1008 performs on the same level as PT15, it's clearly not as clear, I give up.


need good source I think , I'm interested in them


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> This would be awesome for me. Did he say where he's visiting or is that classified information?


 
  
 I'll tell you but then I have to kill you... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Actually, he just wrote that it's the beginning of December. I guess he'll tell exact dates to those US residents who are interested and contact him.


----------



## robervaul

Is it good?
  
 https://world.tmall.com/item/10869026276.htm


----------



## vapman

frederick wang said:


> 10 hours later, I don't think E1008 performs on the same level as PT15, it's clearly not as clear, I give up.


 

 So you are a PT15 fan then? I like mine a lot when I cut the high frequencies. Unfortunately it takes a lot of EQ bass up and treble down to get the sound I like but I went from absolutely hating them to really loving them.
  
 I have some DIY ideas for these drivers but will wait until the parts get here & I see if it works before saying too much more.... and I have to agree it's one of the most clear buds I have. Too bad the treble is so damn sharp without EQ.
  


robervaul said:


> Is it good?
> 
> https://world.tmall.com/item/10869026276.htm


 
  
  
 there is a billion MX500 clones out there and they all range from crap to just okay.


----------



## robervaul

vapman said:


> there is a billion MX500 clones out there and they all range from crap to just okay.


 
 no mx500 clone, is the vido.


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> Actually, he just wrote that it's the beginning of December. I guess he'll tell exact dates to those US residents who are interested and contact him.


 
 So you're saying Cypherus Audio is going on USA Demo Tour. When in Europe?


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> So you're saying Cypherus Audio is going on USA Demo Tour. When in Europe?


 

 Don't know... When Herry of Cypherus finds a good place to vacation in Europe?


----------



## Anthony Frandi

Whats the different between original 1more ep320 with updated version that support apple and android?


----------



## ClieOS

anthony frandi said:


> Whats the different between original 1more ep320 with updated version that support apple and android?




Orginal 1more earbud is called EO303, the upgraded version is called EO320. There is no other version with the same look.


----------



## tintheman

Hi Golov, thinking of getting the Remax RM-305 after got the 303m could you tell me how you compare the 303 to 305? Do you have any buds similar to 305?


----------



## vapman

Rm303 is great and very forgiving of source like phones. But thin sound and almost no bass. On the other hand, not at all picky about positioning.


----------



## tintheman

By the way, Golov, I have got the Erqu EQ300 to try after how I love the EQ320...hopefully, it won't disappoint...


----------



## golov17

tintheman said:


> By the way, Golov, I have got the Erqu EQ300 to try after how I love the EQ320...hopefully, it won't disappoint...


from Tao?


----------



## golov17

tintheman said:


> Hi Golov, thinking of getting the Remax RM-305 after got the 303m could you tell me how you compare the 303 to 305? Do you have any buds similar to 305?


bass 305<303, treble 303<305, btw in my pair rm303 (40 Ohm version) all right with bass, low and deep


----------



## golov17

If you like rm303, try Tuna cm6


----------



## tintheman

golov17 said:


> from Tao?


 
 No, from here...
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-In-Ear-Earphones-Stereo-Noise-Cancelling-Ear-Buds-Diy-Mp3-Auriculares-3-5mm-Ecouteurs-Wired/32717264953.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.5p4jtq


----------



## tintheman

golov17 said:


> bass 305<303, treble 303<305, btw in my pair rm303 (40 Ohm version) all right with bass, low and deep


 
 Looks like you like RM303 better than 305???


----------



## tintheman

Just check Tuna CM6


golov17 said:


> If you like rm303, try Tuna cm6


 
 Just check Tuna CM6, looks interesting...I also saw CM7 with the weird setup, do they sound the same on CM6 and 7? What would you say when CM6 compare to Monk+?


----------



## vapman

I gotta admit I really, really like the PT15. Not as good as my Qian39 mod..... but easily could be a top 5 bud. Too bad it is so tiring from the brightness.


----------



## golov17

tintheman said:


> Just check Tuna CM6
> Just check Tuna CM6, looks interesting...I also saw CM7 with the weird setup, do they sound the same on CM6 and 7? What would you say when CM6 compare to Monk+?


not tried cm7, sorry


----------



## golov17

tintheman said:


> Looks like you like RM303 better than 305???


yep


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> Don't know... When Herry of Cypherus finds a good place to vacation in Europe?


 
 Somebody please send Herry some European vacation brochures.


----------



## Frederick Wang

vapman said:


> So you are a PT15 fan then? I like mine a lot when I cut the high frequencies. Unfortunately it takes a lot of EQ bass up and treble down to get the sound I like but I went from absolutely hating them to really loving them.
> 
> I have some DIY ideas for these drivers but will wait until the parts get here & I see if it works before saying too much more.... and I have to agree it's one of the most clear buds I have. Too bad the treble is so damn sharp without EQ.


 
 It's not perfect, but, sure, why not? I too believe their drivers have untapped potential


----------



## Willber

anthony frandi said:


> Whats the different between original 1more ep320 with updated version that support apple and android?


 

 Do you mean in looks or sound?
  
 (EO303 - original - Android only)
 (EO320 - updated - Android/IOS)


----------



## Anthony Frandi

willber said:


> Do you mean in looks or sound?
> 
> (EO303 - original - Android only)
> (EO320 - updated - Android/IOS)



how about the sound?


----------



## Willber

anthony frandi said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Do you mean in looks or sound?
> ...


 
 EO303 is supposed to lack bass, others have reported.


----------



## springbay

willber said:


> EO303 is supposed to lack bass, others have reported.


 

 Nah, EO303 lacks everything but mids.


----------



## Willber

springbay said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > EO303 is supposed to lack bass, others have reported.
> ...


 

 Shouldn't that be "Yeah, in fact..." rather than "Nah..."?


----------



## vapman

About a week with the SHE3800 and I can't not admit these are really, really exceptional for the price. They are in the Q39's league when it comes to bass. I have no major complaints...


----------



## Willber

vapman said:


> About a week with the SHE3800 and I can't not admit these are really, really exceptional for the price. They are in the Q39's league when it comes to bass. I have no major complaints...


 

 If only you'd got the Hi-Z 32 v1 when it was available - deeper bass than the SHE or Q39!


----------



## Willber

vapman said:


> About a week with the SHE3800 and I can't not admit these are really, really exceptional for the price. They are in the Q39's league when it comes to bass. I have no major complaints...


 

 If only you'd got the Hi-Z 32 v1 when it was available - deeper bass than the SHE or Q39!


----------



## base08

willber said:


> If only you'd got the Hi-Z 32 v1 when it was available - deeper bass than the SHE or Q39!


 I have both versions and they are the same sonically, only diference is the plug!


----------



## gwompki

I recabled the cheap ear buds that came with my Agptek m20. I really like these things...would love to be able to buy more. Wish I could find some without buying another dap lol. Granted the dap was only 25 USD...



I'm guessing they aren't legit MX 365 as the cheapest those seem to sell for is 15 USD on eBay.

These things have a fairly spacious soundstage with the benefit of some very nice low end.


----------



## gwompki

Any opinions on YMHFPJ earbuds?

 http://s.aliexpress.com/NriaamI3 

Price seems good...


----------



## Saoshyant

My PT15 has left Connecticut and arrived in New Hampshire, which is unfortunate as I live in Kansas. Maybe it's time to contact HCK and see what address it's going to.


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> My PT15 has left Connecticut and arrived in New Hampshire, which is unfortunate as I live in Kansas. Maybe it's time to contact HCK and see what address it's going to.




If it showed up at JFK then that's a normal path for it to go out west


----------



## music4mhell

clieos said:


> Those who have Edimun V3 might have noticed that it comes with customized red foam with 4 smaller holes. That gives it more or less a donut foam quality (that won't over-dampen treble) but without the downside of a looser fit which tends to make dunut foam falls out easily. While donut foam can be a life saver for certain earbuds from time to time, it isn't particularly suitable for MX500 style front cover (VE's, BugGuy's, etc) as this kind of cover don't have any sound vents near the center, but located closer to the outer edge - so they still get somewhat over dampened even with donut foam. Inspired by the Edimun V3 foam pad, I did some modification of my own to create the multi-holes foam pad that will work better with MX500 style earbuds. The holes are located closer to the edge and thus will expose some sound vents for more treble. It also has the upside of getting a tighter fit than donut foam. I won't say it is the perfect solution for every earbuds, but it does work better than donut foam on many occasion.
> 
> 
> Get yourself a leather belt hole puncher and punch the foam away - you won't actually punch a hole with the puncher, but it will leave a mark on the foam that you can tear away with your fingers easily. Push the foam slightly inward when punching and the hole will be closer to the edge - but don't get too close to the edge though, as you will want to leave around 3~4mm of space.
> ...


 
 i just bought a belt puncher , trying to replicate .. it's a very hard task..already spoiled 4 foams.. but i will keep trying.. patience is the ultimate key to success !


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman I had no tracking between EMS picking it up and CT, but all Kansas deliveries for me have had their original USPS posting in Chicago, so it's not a normal route to say the least.


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> @vapman I had no tracking between EMS picking it up and CT, but all Kansas deliveries for me have had their original USPS posting in Chicago, so it's not a normal route to say the least.


 
 Makes sense. After all 99% of my China mail has come in thru JFK for me, and my last HCK order and one other very very long ago happened to come in thru SF and took a different route here. Not that it wouldn't hurt to have the delivery address checked anyway I suppose.


----------



## cingcut

cable for pt 15 has arrived. set, play, and yes pt 15 has very hot treble. i got headache after listen them less than a minute. try again later after burn in them.


----------



## ClieOS

Interestingly enough that I don't find PT15 to have a particularly hot treble at all. The only way I can imagine that PT15 will have a very bright and uncomfortable  treble is when I listened to it way louder than I should.


----------



## Alex CY

I wouldn't call it hot


cingcut said:


> cable for pt 15 has arrived. set, play, and yes pt 15 has very hot treble. i got headache after listen them less than a minute. try again later after burn in them.


 
 After a week of playing with them, I wouldn't say that burn in added any extra bass, more or less they are the same.  Treble are emphasized , but not hot, as PT15+silver cable not suffering from sibilance or any kind of distorsion, they provide clear and high resolution sounding. They a bit dry and less airy compare to Tomahawk, but not so boring like Monk, TY hi-z or Fareal


----------



## Ira Delphic

alex cy said:


> I wouldn't call it hot
> 
> 
> cingcut said:
> ...


 
  
 **** (like 1more with their new high end earbud) uses the marketing term "Hi-Res" - and in this instance it's an accurate claim. The PT15 has superb resolution. To me it's very pleasing - the treble, and I hate to have to use EQ, but upping the bass makes it a near perfect earbud for my taste. I have the black cable. Silver cable  version on the way but I doubt I'll be able to notice a difference in SQ. 
  
 I need to find "wings" that fit the PT15. The only deficiency I experience is the fit. If I talk/drink/chew it doesn't always stay in my ear.


----------



## Alex CY

ira delphic said:


> To me it's very pleasing - the treble, and I hate to have to use EQ, but upping the bass makes it a near perfect earbud for my taste. I have the black cable. Silver cable  version on the way but I doubt I'll be able to notice a difference in SQ.
> I need to find "wings" that fit the PT15. The only deficiency I experience is the fit. If I talk/drink/chew it doesn't always stay in my ear.


 
 I'm upping a bit of bass on all of my earbuds, so I see no problem here. "By mistake" EE combined PT15 with cheaper over ear silver cable, so with  foams earbuds stay directly in to ear canal, and so bass is just enough. I'm not used to wear earbuds this way, but like with ES100, it gives best sounding


----------



## vapman

This is how i wear my pt15, at least until i get my new shells to swap the drivers into..



It is really on the border of too bright/hot treble for me... Clarity is A+ though.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> This is how i wear my pt15, at least until i get my new shells to swap the drivers into..
> 
> 
> 
> It is really on the border of too bright/hot treble for me... Clarity is A+ though.


Any hiss?


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> Any hiss?




Nope  no hiss

SHE3800, edifier has more hiss.

But i think it will be better in a different shell... Just a feeling


----------



## Danneq

A package arrived from Indonesia today.







 To be continued...


----------



## Ira Delphic

golov17 said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > This is how i wear my pt15, at least until i get my new shells to swap the drivers into..
> ...


 
  
 Bright but no sibilance.


----------



## pack21

ira delphic said:


> Bright but no sibilance.



Maybe like my etymotic ER4PT or senn MX985, that would be awesome.


----------



## tintheman

Hi everyone, does anyone have both white and black cables on the PT15, do you find any SQ difference on them?


----------



## Danneq

Spoiler: Oh!


----------



## Tomasz2D

_Bon appétit Daniel !_


----------



## Venture Guy

Just got my Shozy Stardusts in the post. Right out of the box, they sound fantastic. I'm running them single ended out of my Pono (something I normally don't recommend) and they exhibit a nice neutral signature with good extension both ways. Good detail in the highs w/o sibilance and sub-bass! I never thought earbuds could sound this good. I'll put them through a 50 hour burn-in cycle and report back...


----------



## Fabi

What a suspense! I can't bear it Danneq


----------



## Venture Guy

fabi said:


> What a suspense! I can't bear it Danneq


 
 Are you getting a pair, too?


----------



## Danneq

Enough teasing!

 I got shrimp flavor and oriental flavor. What is that really by the way? Oriental flavor?

 Too early for impressions except that Blox TM7 might be pushed down from first place on my list by CampFred. CAX is another step up. A true endgame earbud (with an impossibly stiff cable). But it's so rare and basically just a pimped up CampFred that I'll mainly focus on CampFred from here on.

  


Spoiler: Photos



Is it 3 packs of instant noodles? Or a toy car?


----------



## Fabi

Super yummy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I too was told Cax Black edition is really something. Let's wait and see what you think of both.
 Congrats and sorry for your empty wallet my friend.


----------



## Danneq

Quote:


fabi said:


> Super yummy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well, I've got a few other earbuds on the way, among them TY HP650 & K's 500 ohm. Then it's just Shozy Stardust I'm looking to get. After that I'll probably look over my collection and clear out stuff and perhaps sell 5-10 pairs, including some top end earbuds.

 I've got a pair of ATH ES10 portable headphones. I am not kidding when I write this: CAX black edition has got the same sort of full sound as my pair of ATH ES10. I thought that stuff like Blox TM7, Sennheiser MX985 and VE Zen 1 had a full sound. They all pale compared to CAX black.
 CampFred is perhaps 90% of CAX black edition and truly belongs in the top of every earbud list.

 Just imagine a Rose Mojito with a slightly smaller soundstage but with no sharp highs and an extremely analogue type sound, not digital sounding at all. This is close to how CampFred sounds.


----------



## Fabi

I am waiting for TY650 and K's 500 too. I'm not completely sure I would like Shozy Stardust.
 Maybe I should just buy Cax BE as retirement earbuds. But for the moment it's not going to happen. My wallet doesn't agree.


----------



## Willber

base08 said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > If only you'd got the Hi-Z 32 v1 when it was available - deeper bass than the SHE or Q39!
> ...


 
 I too have both, definitely deeper bass on the v1 with mine. Not a huge difference, but noticeable.


----------



## vapman

If anyone's going to try and mod their PT15, keep in mind the drivers are glued in


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> If anyone's going to try and mod their PT15, keep in mind the drivers are glued in


thx


----------



## jescereal

To those with PT15's, does the sub-bass audio from the "Quality" section from this site http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php make the earbuds make a slight rattling noise in the lowest subbass? Mine do, but I have not heard it in real use so I'm not worried.


----------



## vapman

Mine didn't when performing similar tests.... hopefully the other ones to replace the one I ruined will not have problems either.


----------



## cingcut

clieos said:


> Interestingly enough that I don't find PT15 to have a particularly hot treble at all. The only way I can imagine that PT15 will have a very bright and uncomfortable  treble is when I listened to it way louder than I should.


 
  
  


alex cy said:


> I wouldn't call it hot
> After a week of playing with them, I wouldn't say that burn in added any extra bass, more or less they are the same.  Treble are emphasized , but not hot, as PT15+silver cable not suffering from sibilance or any kind of distorsion, they provide clear and high resolution sounding. They a bit dry and less airy compare to Tomahawk, but not so boring like Monk, TY hi-z or Fareal


 
  
  
  
 take my opinion with a grain of salt. just listen them with my ordinary office comp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 i'll try later with my benjie s5.


----------



## jescereal

vapman said:


> Mine didn't when performing similar tests.... hopefully the other ones to replace the one I ruined will not have problems either.


 
  
 it's a VEEEEERY faint noise.


----------



## vapman

Anyone ever seen these?
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Newest-X3-1-2M-In-Ear-3-5MM-DIY-Custom-Made-Dynamic-Drive-Unit-Earphone-Bass/1727211_32708033718.html


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> Anyone ever seen these?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Newest-X3-1-2M-In-Ear-3-5MM-DIY-Custom-Made-Dynamic-Drive-Unit-Earphone-Bass/1727211_32708033718.html


 
 Personally i don't like Silver cable earbud/headphone  Copper cables are superior !
 By the way it looks nice, but it's with MIC, so i won't assume it will have high quality sound !


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> Personally i don't like Silver cable earbud/headphone  Copper cables are superior !
> By the way it looks nice, but it's with MIC, so i won't assume it will have high quality sound !


 
 Yeah, i doubt it would be very good to be honest.
 I agree copper is superior, but silver cable Qian39 started to change my opinion on that!


----------



## markkkun

Hi,
  
 I have Shozy Cygnus and Monk/Monk Plus, and I previosly had Tomahawks (I sold them). Personally, I use most time my Monks at work and I really enjoy them.
  
 I've been thinking about buying the Zen 2.0, but I don't know if the purchase will be worth it (more than 100$..)
  
 I don't think that I have problems to drive them with my amp: a headstage arrow 4T.
  
 What's your opinion, is the signature similar to monk?
  
 Thanks


----------



## vapman

markkkun said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have Shozy Cygnus and Monk/Monk Plus, and I previosly had Tomahawks (I sold them). Personally, I use most time my Monks at work and I really enjoy them.
> 
> ...


 

 I think Asura 2.0 is more like Monk Plus than Zen 2.0 is...


----------



## music4mhell

markkkun said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have Shozy Cygnus and Monk/Monk Plus, and I previosly had Tomahawks (I sold them). Personally, I use most time my Monks at work and I really enjoy them.
> 
> ...


 
 Go for Shozy Stardust ...


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> I got shrimp flavor and oriental flavor. What is that really by the way? Oriental flavor?


 
  


danneq said:


> CampFred is perhaps 90% of CAX black edition and truly belongs in the top of every earbud list.


 
 I feel like I am hungry now. Noodles-hungry.
 So are you saying CAX is more similar to CampFred than to QFred?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> Quote:
> 
> Well, I've got a few other earbuds on the way, among them TY HP650 & K's 500 ohm. Then it's just Shozy Stardust I'm looking to get. After that I'll probably look over my collection and clear out stuff and perhaps sell 5-10 pairs, including some top end earbuds.
> 
> ...


 
 Campfred (Normal) vs Qfred please oh lord Danneq


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> I feel like I am hungry now. Noodles-hungry.
> So are you saying CAX is more similar to CampFred than to QFred?


 


 According to the Cypherus earbuds thread it's like this:
  


> And then came CAX Back Edition Earbuds, which is based on order only, as the improvement of CampFred Earbuds.


 

 I did not know that when I ordered CampFred and CAX black. When I read that I first thought that I shouldn't have bought both. After seeing and feeling the cable of CAX black I'm glad I got both. CAX black is not exactly the most portable earbud because of the stiff cable.

 So you can see CAX black edition as similar to Zen 2 black edition. Both are more expensive improvments of already high end earbuds (although CAX black is "only" $130 more expensive than CampFred compared to Zen 2 black being $200 more expensive than Zen 2...)
  
  


audionewbi3 said:


> Campfred (Normal) vs Qfred please oh lord Danneq


 

 Will compare when I have a opportunity. Classical music? It sounded really great on QFred because of the analogue type sound of them. CampFred is more extended at both ends but still sounds analogue.


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> Will compare when I have a opportunity. Classical music? It sounded really great on QFred because of the analogue type sound of them. CampFred is more extended at both ends but still sounds analogue.


 
 All these so called "vocal oriented" earphones are in fact perfect for jazz, blues, small ensemble classical - all these music genres where instrumental solos play important role.


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> All these so called "vocal oriented" earphones are in fact perfect for jazz, blues, small ensemble classical - all these music genres where instrumental solos play important role.


 intimate atmosphere..


----------



## Kelzo

So how's the fit of **** PT15? Is shell smaller than the shell of Monk?


----------



## Fabi

audionewbi3 said:


> Campfred (Normal) vs Qfred please oh lord Danneq


 From now on, I agree we can call him Lord Danneq


----------



## Danneq

fabi said:


> From now on, I agree we can call him Lord Danneq


 


 Save the "lord" for the person who buys VE Nirvana...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> According to the Cypherus earbuds thread it's like this:
> 
> 
> I did not know that when I ordered CampFred and CAX black. When I read that I first thought that I shouldn't have bought both. After seeing and feeling the cable of CAX black I'm glad I got both. CAX black is not exactly the most portable earbud because of the stiff cable.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the info mate.
 But seeing as they Campfred is more extended I would assume that it would be more suitable for orchestral and instrumental pieces.
 Very interesting indeed!


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> Thanks for the info mate.
> But seeing as they Campfred is more extended I would assume that it would be more suitable for orchestral and instrumental pieces.
> Very interesting indeed!


 


 Well, instrument separation on QFred is second to none and the soundstage is very good. Bass and treble is definitely not lacking but the main focus is mids...


----------



## kurtextrem

Lalala... where is my Stardust 
 Hoepfully it'll come tomorrow as reward for my final exam


----------



## Ira Delphic

kelzo said:


> So how's the fit of **** PT15? Is shell smaller than the shell of Monk?


 
  
 The PT15 is larger than the Monk+. For me the Monk+ has better fit, but the PT15 is OK.  golov17 measured the PT15 a bunch of pages back...


----------



## boblauer

akashs04 said:


> Has any tried to replace iPod Nano 1st G Battery on his own?  How easy or difficult it is?


 
 Are these the earbuds you were trying to find? I found these in a drawer at home.


----------



## Blueshound24

akashs04 said:


> Has any tried to replace iPod Nano 1st G Battery on his own?  How easy or difficult it is?


 
 O.T.


----------



## AkashS04

Yes. They are very good. I guess later Apple reduced the diameter of new earbuds and I did no listen to them. But these are surely good.


----------



## AkashS04

What is OT?


----------



## AkashS04

Did you find Nano 1G also with these  It will be a kind of combination which will beat even $1000 Music Players and $200 Earphones anyday. 
  
 Quote:


boblauer said:


> Are these the earbuds you were trying to find? I found these in a drawer at home.


----------



## Danneq

akashs04 said:


> What is OT?


 


 Orange Trousers.

 No, seriously it means "off topic". This is an earbud thread. Here are instructions: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPod+Nano+1st+Generation+Battery+Replacement/774


----------



## base08

Ahhh feels damn good getting home and trying new toys like the **** PT15, which give amazing bang for the buck with amazing resolution and performance... all for €7 without the cable!

For live recordings is so revealing: the timbre, every detail, texture and separation of each instrument is among the best have experienced with an exceptional soundstage, making me feel in the middle of the room with the musicians.

Sound signature wise is a bit light on the lower end even though to my ears still feels satisfactory, falling in the neutral side. Mids also feel right with nice vocal presence either male or female. As for the treble was a bit worried for an overly bright and sibilant performance like the 4in1, but none of those characteristics are to be found. Overall I would say a nice balanced earbud with a lighter lower end even though with good extension.

Very recommended and like its IEM sibling 4in1 another solid entry by ****, this time in the earbud game.


----------



## vapman

ira delphic said:


> The PT15 is larger than the Monk+. For me the Monk+ has better fit, but the PT15 is OK.  golov17 measured the PT15 a bunch of pages back...


 

 It is true but the driver size is the same. you can fit a PT15 driver in a MX500, Edifier, etc shell.


----------



## base08

vapman said:


> It is true but the driver size is the same. you can fit a PT15 driver in a MX500, Edifier, etc shell.




To me they are a tiny bit more comfortable than the already comfortable mx500 shells, as the part that sits in the ear is a bit thinner on its profile, even though the front radius is indeed a bit bigger. The thick profile that the RX-1 has, was always a problem comfortwise to me... The PT15 is the first earbud I have that almost disappears...


----------



## vapman

By all means keep it stock then, it doesn't fit me very well though. I need to wait for my new sets to arrive though.


----------



## damex

guys, I ordered a lot of earbuds that is rated high at this thread.
 my only complain is Balanced VE Asura for now (not because of thread).
 I received it few days ago from aliexpress and if I touch cable that is close to 2.5 balanced jack - it lose sound/start producing noise.
 2.5BL -> 3.5SE jack just too loose on 2.5 female side.in some fixed position it work, but mostly it just play through only one ear or produce strange noise in background. 
  
 VE guys just ignore me. I don't really want to open dispute straight away since it might push them away from ali. could I contact them somewhere else to resolve that issue?
  
 ps I received VE Monk Plus and Original before from them and they're perfectly fine.


----------



## music4mhell

damex said:


> guys, I ordered a lot of earbuds that is rated high at this thread.
> my only complain is Balanced VE Asura for now (not because of thread).
> I received it few days ago from aliexpress and if I touch cable that is close to 2.5 balanced jack - it lose sound/start producing noise.
> 2.5BL -> 3.5SE jack just too loose on 2.5 female side.in some fixed position it work, but mostly it just play through only one ear or produce strange noise in background.
> ...


which balanced version u ordered ?

2.5 or 3.5 balanced ?
and what's ur source name ..which balanced out it has ?
2.5 or 3.5 ?


----------



## damex

music4mhell said:


> which balanced version u ordered ?
> 
> 2.5 or 3.5 balanced ?
> and what's ur source name ..which balanced out it has ?
> 2.5 or 3.5 ?


 
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Venture-Electronic-VE-ASURA-high-impedance-150-ohms-earbud-earphone/32411358569.html
 I ordered 'standard 2.5 4pin balanced' version. one with red jack and that cost 88$ now.
  
 source is onkyo dp-x1. it does have 2.5 4pin balanced. same output as on AK players. so I got another earbuds for it.
  
 I also have Balanced Shozy Cygnus earbuds and they work perfectly fine through that source (comparison. source work fine!)


----------



## awaysooner

jescereal said:


> To those with PT15's, does the sub-bass audio from the "Quality" section from this site http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php make the earbuds make a slight rattling noise in the lowest subbass? Mine do, but I have not heard it in real use so I'm not worried.


 
 Mine did that too, I try to EQ bass higher and they didn't like that.


----------



## vapman

damex said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Venture-Electronic-VE-ASURA-high-impedance-150-ohms-earbud-earphone/32411358569.html
> I ordered 'standard 2.5 4pin balanced' version. one with red jack and that cost 88$ now.
> 
> source is onkyo dp-x1. it does have 2.5 4pin balanced. same output as on AK players. so I got another earbuds for it.
> ...


 

 take a video of it happening with the asura 2.0 and not happening with other 2.5mm balanced earbud and send that to them? that is all i can think of.


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> damex said:
> 
> 
> > https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Venture-Electronic-VE-ASURA-high-impedance-150-ohms-earbud-earphone/32411358569.html
> ...


i was about to say same thing...


----------



## Willber

damex said:


> guys, I ordered a lot of earbuds that is rated high at this thread.
> my only complain is Balanced VE Asura for now (not because of thread).
> I received it few days ago from aliexpress and if I touch cable that is close to 2.5 balanced jack - it lose sound/start producing noise.
> 2.5BL -> 3.5SE jack just too loose on 2.5 female side.in some fixed position it work, but mostly it just play through only one ear or produce strange noise in background.
> ...


 

 I don't know what you have tried but here is the contact page from their website:
  
 https://www.veclan.com/contactus_eng_index
  
 Also, the owner of VE (Lee) is a member on here, you could PM him:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/u/49498/zhibli06
  
 Good luck.


----------



## damex

sure, thank you.
  
 I sent him a mail few hours ago but no reply yet.


----------



## Ira Delphic

damex the buyer has the advantage on Ali. And VE is a reputable company. Just follow the advice provided here and chill for a while.


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, my PT15 has arrived in town and will hopefully get here today. Buyer protection timed out today after I asked that it be extended, so hopefully there will be no issues.


----------



## Holypal

I received my PT15. For $8, the design and build is very impressive. Looks very good.


----------



## ProspektFi

Qian39 arrived two days ago and burned in for more than 40h. Take it as a simple personal opinion as I'm not expert at all.
  
 Compared to Candy Monk+, I don't know which one I prefer... Candy has more "out of the head" feeling and I really like it, but the Qian39 it's like I can hear better all the frequency range. It has also more powerful bass, not enormously, and a bit of harshness on the "s" in some cases (e.g., in Coldplay's "Yellow" when the singer say "stars", "shine", can be annoying). Fitting is better thank Monk but the cable seems really cheap.
  
 If I have to do a ranking of my (few) earbuds about sound, Candy and Qian39 fight for 1st place, original Monk 3rd, and Sennheiser MX375 4th.
  
 IMHO, Qian39 quality/price ratio is absolutely OK, really nothing bad to say 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Can't wait for my AG RX-1 and PT15 to come!


----------



## dw1narso

I think I have to share something... I silently following this thread for quite a long time... and by the time got RX1, Monk+ and lately TY-HZ 32...
 While RX1 is good but must be equalized to show its real potential... Monk+, IMHO, is not as good as the hype around it...
  
 TY-HZ32 is the real winner... unbelievably good with Rockboxed XDuuo X3 without any equalization needed...
 Unbelievable value...
  
 EDIT: I use Monk+ red and blue, non-holed foam cover...


----------



## Holypal

As **** PT15, make sure the four holes on the outside are not blocked. It may change the sound dramatically.


----------



## Ira Delphic

holypal said:


> As **** PT15, make sure the four holes on the outside are not blocked. It may change the sound dramatically.


 
  
 Huh like a cheap fm radio sound! Dramatically is an understatement. There are high hopes for DIY potential since noted drivers fits mx500 shell.
 Too bad **** wouldn't just sell a pair of the drivers for $9!


----------



## vapman

Agreed  or at least just not glue them in! Is snap in too much to ask? ;p


----------



## Blueshound24

So in a full size can, I would say one of my favs is the HD650. Would anyone know if the MX985 would be similar, or not? Or would it be similar to the HD800?


----------



## vapman

blueshound24 said:


> So in a full size can, I would say one of my favs is the HD650. Would anyone know if the MX985 would be similar, or not? Or would it be similar to the HD800?


 

 Zen 2 over MX985 for you no doubt. MX985 if you're more a HD600 person      <- [don't get mad if you don't agree...]


----------



## SuperMAG

base08 said:


> Ahhh feels damn good getting home and trying new toys like the **** PT15, which give amazing bang for the buck with amazing resolution and performance... all for €7 without the cable!
> 
> For live recordings is so revealing: the timbre, every detail, texture and separation of each instrument is among the best have experienced with an exceptional soundstage, making me feel in the middle of the room with the musicians.
> 
> ...


 
 can you please compare the **** 4in1 with pt15 more, i mean which has bigger soundstage and better 3d imaging, separation and clarity etc. Also how is the vocals in pt15, are they shouty and thin like 4in1 or thicker and softer/warmer and also do you really feel that pt15 is softer treble then 4in1.
  
 I have 4in1 but starting to hate the iems, earbuds provide way more comfort, i only have ty 32 and monk+. was thinking of buying pt15 but was afraid of brightness and missed a great deal of 11usd with cable from ak audio. man.
  
 I am looking for an endgame earbud and i want something with ty32 thick yet sharp and ultra clear vocals or better more stunning vocals, also ty32 subbass and monk+ midbass, even huger soundstage then both these earbuds, i want something immersive and holographic, like people claim about the Shockwave 3, and i want everything to sound natural and live as possible.
  
 Do anyone have a suggestion about this.


----------



## vapman

supermag said:


> can you please compare the **** 4in1 with pt15 more, i mean which has bigger soundstage and better 3d imaging, separation and clarity etc. Also how is the vocals in pt15, are they shouty and thin like 4in1 or thicker and softer/warmer and also do you really feel that pt15 is softer treble then 4in1.
> 
> I have 4in1 but starting to hate the iems, earbuds provide way more comfort, i only have ty 32 and monk+. was thinking of buying pt15 but was afraid of brightness and missed a great deal of 11usd with cable from ak audio. man.
> 
> ...


 

 never used the **** IEM but if you got the PT15 you'd probably want to boost bass up on EQ, otherwise i'd easily recommend the edimun v3!
  
 e: just saw you said endgame. so i would get in line for a cypherus or get a Zen 2. TY 650 might be what you want but it might also be too boring for you...


----------



## Blueshound24

vapman said:


> blueshound24 said:
> 
> 
> > So in a full size can, I would say one of my favs is the HD650. Would anyone know if the MX985 would be similar, or not? Or would it be similar to the HD800?
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for that vapman. I always thought the HD600 to be somewhat too flat in the bass response and I think the bass in HD650 is just about right.


----------



## Danneq

supermag said:


> can you please compare the **** 4in1 with pt15 more, i mean which has bigger soundstage and better 3d imaging, separation and clarity etc. Also how is the vocals in pt15, are they shouty and thin like 4in1 or thicker and softer/warmer and also do you really feel that pt15 is softer treble then 4in1.
> 
> I have 4in1 but starting to hate the iems, earbuds provide way more comfort, i only have ty 32 and monk+. was thinking of buying pt15 but was afraid of brightness and missed a great deal of 11usd with cable from ak audio. man.
> 
> ...


 


 Cypherus CAX Black edition. It'll cost you $280 excluding shipping but it doesn't get more endgame than that...

 Otherwise Cypherus CampFred. "Only" $150 excluding shipping and amazingly analogue sounding with great soundstage, deep bass and very extended and clear highs that still do not become sharp or "hot" sounding.


----------



## Ira Delphic

supermag said:


> base08 said:
> 
> 
> > Ahhh feels damn good getting home and trying new toys like the **** PT15, which give amazing bang for the buck with amazing resolution and performance... all for €7 without the cable!
> ...


 
  
 Bingo - live sounding and natural sound - like instruments being played in the room, that is the signature of the PT15. It may not be considered best all rounder, but for critical listening it is most awesome. I think **** paid the most attention to the tuning of the mids and highs, but with EQ adjustment of the low end - EQ used to increase the bass - as good an earbud as some of us need.


----------



## Venture Guy

Does anybody know Cypherus' email so I can meet him when he comes to Cali?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Needed more colorful tips, saw these posted up on this thread a little while back, so I ordered a few pairs.
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10pairs-20pcs-15mm-Foam-Earbud-earphone-ear-buds-Headphone-Ear-pads-cushion-Replacement-Sponge-Covers-Tips/32671911259.html
  
 Comes with two little cool plastic cases too.  You can send a message to the seller if you are looking for specific colors.  I asked for no white.
  
  

  

  

  

  
 --


----------



## music4mhell

venture guy said:


> Does anybody know Cypherus' email so I can meet him when he comes to Cali?


PM sent


----------



## Saoshyant

PT15 with silver cable just arrived. Fit is snug but feels very secure. On a very brief listen it feels quite detailed.


----------



## SuperMAG

danneq said:


> Cypherus CAX Black edition. It'll cost you $280 excluding shipping but it doesn't get more endgame than that...
> 
> 
> Otherwise Cypherus CampFred. "Only" $150 excluding shipping and amazingly analogue sounding with great soundstage, deep bass and very extended and clear highs that stoll do not become sharp or "hot" sounding.




I cant seen to find where is this cypherus is sold. Is the soudstage and seperation are really the best in business. Also do u think it can compete with the likes of shockwave 3 etc.
Anyone here uses both iems and earbuds??


----------



## vapman

supermag said:


> I cant seen to find where is this cypherus is sold. Is the soudstage and seperation are really the best in business. Also do u think it can compete with the likes of shockwave 3 etc.
> Anyone here uses both iems and earbuds??




While iem talk is generally discouraged in this thread, comparisons to headphones and iems have always been fine. I know a lot of people here who use all 3, a lot who only use iems and buds and a good portion, like myself, who never use iems and are almost if not 100% earbuds.

There is one store in indonesia that sells Cypherus danneq linked a page or so ago. Aside from that it's all build to order.

CAX Black is most definitely only build to order.


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> supermag said:
> 
> 
> > I cant seen to find where is this cypherus is sold. Is the soudstage and seperation are really the best in business. Also do u think it can compete with the likes of shockwave 3 etc.
> ...


 
 I hav never heard IEM more than 1 minute in my life 
 Only Earbuds and Headphones !
  
 You can contact this guy for Cypherus products : http://www.head-fi.org/u/434494/littlesoundhq


----------



## Danneq

supermag said:


> I cant seen to find where is this cypherus is sold. Is the soudstage and seperation are really the best in business. Also do u think it can compete with the likes of shockwave 3 etc.
> Anyone here uses both iems and earbuds??


 

 I've tried IEMs but never liked them. As for earbuds, I have owned most of the top end ones. A few years ago I collected vintage Sony and Aiwa earbuds, but I gave that up when prices started to rocket around 2012/2013. I've got almost all top tier Sony (E252, E282 & E484), Aiwa (D9 & V99 - V9 is the only one I haven't got) plus modern earbuds such as Blox TM7 (my favorite from 2012 until now - pushed down by Cypherus CampFred and Cypherus CAX black), Sennheiser MX985/OMX980 (they use the same driver, OMX is the version with ear hooks), VE Zen 1 etc.
 I used to own stuff like VE Zen 2, Celsus Gramo One, Yuin PK1 and Rose Mojito but sold or traded them because they weren't my "cup of tea".

 I still have not tried K's 500 ohm earbuds or Shozy Stardust. I traded for a pair of K's 500 and they should arrive within 2 weeks. Will try to get Shozy Stardust by the end of December if possible. After that I've got all top tier earbuds.

 Well, there's also VE Zen 2 black edition which uses a cardas cable and costs $200 more than regular Zen 2. But I only thought Zen 2 was okay and prefered Zen 1. CampFred pretty easily beats Zen 1, except for bass quantity - Zen 1 is the bass champion of earbuds. CAX black edition is an upgrade of CampFred in the same way as Zen 2 black edition is an upgrade of Zen 2.

 You can contacy Herry of Cypherus in this thread:http://www.head-fi.org/t/826036/cypherus-audio-products-appreciation-and-discussion-thread-campfred-earbuds-qfred-earbuds-and-cax-golden-reference

 LittleSound is an Indonesian audio store that sells Cypherus products. But I bought directly from Cypherus.


----------



## haiku

I must have some unique pair of ears. Since I have the EO320, the K´s 500Ohm sound totally artificial and out of balance to me. When I go back to the EO320, it´s like getting a fresh breeze of air on an early autumn morning....


----------



## vapman

haiku said:


> I must have some unique pair of ears. Since I have the EO320, the K´s 500Ohm sound totally artificial and out of balance to me. When I go back to the EO320, it´s like getting a fresh breeze of air on an early autumn morning....


 
 Not surprising to me if the K's 500 has a similar signature to the K's 64. It messed with the driver a lot before I got it to sound somewhat natural.


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> I must have some unique pair of ears. Since I have the EO320, the K´s 500Ohm sound totally artificial and out of balance to me. When I go back to the EO320, it´s like getting a fresh breeze of air on an early autumn morning....


 
 But you don't have any other earbuds other than K and 1More  lol .. So you don't have more choices !


----------



## Danneq

haiku said:


> I must have some unique pair of ears. Since I have the EO320, the K´s 500Ohm sound totally artificial and out of balance to me. When I go back to the EO320, it´s like getting a fresh breeze of air on an early autumn morning....


 


 I could never get in to Zen 2 even if some people love it. Also I really liked (and still like) Tomahawk but others hate it.

 I might get EO320 as well. It's quite cheap compared to the other suff I've bought lately...


----------



## kurtextrem

https://www.instagram.com/p/BNLsS7yhgyt/?taken-by=heavenlysoundsjkt
 Heavenly Sounds Zeus


----------



## ATi7500

double, sorry


----------



## ATi7500

bloodypenguin said:


> Needed more colorful tips, saw these posted up on this thread a little while back, so I ordered a few pairs.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10pairs-20pcs-15mm-Foam-Earbud-earphone-ear-buds-Headphone-Ear-pads-cushion-Replacement-Sponge-Covers-Tips/32671911259.html
> 
> ...


 
  
 Can't beat 50 pairs (even if they're only black) for almost half price 
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/EDT-100-Pcs-Black-Sponge-Earbud-Headphone-Cap-Ear-Pads-Cover-Replacement/32724349553.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.271.2rMpVt


----------



## music4mhell

just received Zen Black, RA+, RA2 !


----------



## haiku

music4mhell said:


> just received Zen Black, RA+, RA2 !


 
  

 So what? Afaik, you recceive something everday....


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > just received Zen Black, RA+, RA2 !
> ...


 
 I in search for End game  Hopefully i wil reach the summit someday or today may be !


----------



## haiku

music4mhell said:


> I in search for End game  Hopefully i wil reach the summit someday or today may be !


 

 If someone gave me a penny every time you wrote that, I´d be a millionaire by now.


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I in search for End game  Hopefully i wil reach the summit someday or today may be !
> ...


 
 That's the reason i have become a beggar now from a millionaire


----------



## Saoshyant

Ok, getting some time listening to PT15 after an early day at work, so trying out Richter's performance of Rachmaninoff's 2nd piano concerto via Shanling M1.  Ok, I can see the treble some people might have an issue with, as I have zero treble sensitivity and it was bordering on uncomfortable for me.  Build wise, it's very solid, and I do like the cable that came with it.  If I decide this one's not for me, I'll steal the cable and use it on another earbud, then give the PT15 a try over ear as the other cable has memory wire.
  
 As I'm writing, I switched to Beethoven's 7th Symphony Allegretto, and it sounds marvelous.  I should see how well the Kogan likes the PT15 as that would make for one great budget pairing if it goes well.


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> just received Zen Black, RA+, RA2 !


 

 Why both RA+ and RA2?


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > just received Zen Black, RA+, RA2 !
> ...


 
 Zen 2 owner can get at $68 so thought of buying all once for all to save shipping cost !


----------



## gwompki

music4mhell said:


> Zen 2 owner can get at $68 so thought of buying all once for all to save shipping cost !




I saw this post in my subscriptions feed without having the context of the quoted text. My first thought was Zen 2.0 owner gets something for $68, it must be Nirvana!!! Lol.

Any news on the Nirvana release? Also did I hear at some point Zen 2.0 owners might get a discount or ability to exchange for Nirvana when it is released?


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> Campfred (Normal) vs Qfred please oh lord Danneq


 

 I did a brief comparison between QFred and CampFred to Mozart and Beethoven. Both sound amazingly good, but because of the focus on mids on QFred, instruments get a bit more body. The sense of soundstage is a bit bigger on CampFred though, but if I only listened to such music I would probably go with QFred. CampFred is more versatile, though. And despite the focus on mids on QFred it is not limited (well, perhaps metal music on my part). QFred works with most pop and rock music as well.


----------



## ozkan

saoshyant said:


> Ok, getting some time listening to PT15 after an early day at work, so trying out Richter's performance of Rachmaninoff's 2nd piano concerto via Shanling M1.  Ok, I can see the treble some people might have an issue with, as I have zero treble sensitivity and it was bordering on uncomfortable for me.  Build wise, it's very solid, and I do like the cable that came with it.  If I decide this one's not for me, I'll steal the cable and use it on another earbud, then give the PT15 a try over ear as the other cable has memory wire.
> 
> As I'm writing, I switched to Beethoven's 7th Symphony Allegretto, and it sounds marvelous.  I should see how well the Kogan likes the PT15 as that would make for one great budget pairing if it goes well.




Today I listened to Philips SHE3800 through Ritmix RT500 and I couldn't go back to the Monk somehow. I hear some wonderful details and synergy between them 

And it is my unmoded SHE3800


----------



## golov17

ozkan said:


> Today I listened to Philips SHE3800 through Ritmix RT500 and I couldn't go back to the Monk somehow. I hear some wonderful details and synergy between them
> 
> And it is my unmoded SHE3800


 not surprising that


----------



## kurtextrem

Stardust everywhere at my home!!! 
 In the past days I thought... wow the Cygnus improved the past weeks (don't ask me how)
 but now.. the stardust, I feel like I have an open back headset on my ears wow


----------



## dw1narso

Guys.. I'm still amazed with TY Hi-Z 32 sound..
Is there any improvement with the Hi-Z 150, 320 or even 640ohm version.

I read Vapman wrote that 640 is warmer.. Did I get it right?

But more importantly will there be improvement on higher impedance mofels?


----------



## petan970

saoshyant said:


> PT15 with silver cable just arrived. Fit is snug but feels very secure. On a very brief listen it feels quite detailed.




I agree - my first impression is the same.


----------



## golov17

kurtextrem said:


> Stardust everywhere at my home!!!
> In the past days I thought... wow the Cygnus improved the past weeks (don't ask me how)
> but now.. the stardust, I feel like I have an open back headset on my ears wow


 Congrats ☺


----------



## Venture Guy

kurtextrem said:


> Stardust everywhere at my home!!!
> In the past days I thought... wow the Cygnus improved the past weeks (don't ask me how)
> but now.. the stardust, I feel like I have an open back headset on my ears wow


 
 Gleichfalls! Stardusts are my first TOTL earbuds and I am really impressed. From your post, it seems like I made the correct first purchase...


----------



## mochill

venture guy said:


> kurtextrem said:
> 
> 
> > Stardust everywhere at my home!!!
> ...


you need Zen 2 black edition


----------



## musicday

Are Stardust superior to Zen V2.0? Any Ebay link to purchase them?


----------



## JASru

Received my PT15. First impressions - not impressed. Out of the box they seem to be a tiiiiiny bit more detailed than TP-16, but not balanced at all.


----------



## golov17

musicday said:


> Are Stardust superior to Zen V2.0? Any Ebay link to purchase them?


 http://www.ebay.com/itm/272436322067


----------



## golov17

jasru said:


> Received my PT15. First impressions - not impressed. Out of the box they seem to be a tiiiiiny bit more detailed than TP-16, but not balanced at all.


  well, Edimun gooood


----------



## musicday

golov17 said:


> musicday said:
> 
> 
> > Are Stardust superior to Zen V2.0? Any Ebay link to purchase them?
> ...


 

 Thank you Golov, I am just looking for best earbud for my Tera Player and I cannot decide between the Stardust and Zen V2.0 black.
 Anyone who has both can explain a bit? Thanks.


----------



## vapman

musicday said:


> Thank you Golov, I am just looking for best earbud for my Tera Player and I cannot decide between the Stardust and Zen V2.0 black.
> Anyone who has both can explain a bit? Thanks.




I dont know why you would be considering zen 2 black? Maybe if you are hopelessly in love with the plain zen 2...


----------



## musicday

Never heard the Zen 2.0 standard or black version but it has been confirmed that works really well with the Tera Player. I am using at the moment the Monk+ and this combination is really good.
 Is the Shozy BK a superior earbud vs Zen 2.0 in general?


----------



## golov17

musicday said:


> Never heard the Zen 2.0 standard or black version but it has been confirmed that works really well with the Tera Player. I am using at the moment the Monk+ and this combination is really good.
> Is the Shozy BK a superior earbud vs Zen 2.0 in general?


290 Ohm vs 17 Ohm (Zen need amping)


----------



## vapman

I have not heard stardust, but i have heard everyone who owns one say it's like an upgraded Cygnus, so it should be a much better all around option than zen 2. I would not be so sure about Zen 2 if you want an all around earbud or dont know its signature. Absolutely wouldn't get a black edition blindly...

Writing while waiting for thanksgiving dessert to be served


----------



## musicday

vapman said:


> I have not heard stardust, but i have heard everyone who owns one say it's like an upgraded Cygnus, so it should be a much better all around option than zen 2. I would not be so sure about Zen 2 if you want an all around earbud or dont know its signature. Absolutely wouldn't get a black edition blindly...
> 
> Writing while waiting for thanksgiving dessert to be served



Enjoy your meal.The Tera Player output is 10 Ohm and i think that Zen 2.0 @320 Ohm will work better.


----------



## vapman

musicday said:


> Enjoy your meal.The Tera Player output is 10 Ohm and i think that Zen 2.0 @320 Ohm will work better.




Thanks bud 

Actually lower ohm buds would be a safer choice, low output resistance from the player is to be expected. That said zen 2 is fairly sensitive for a 320 ohm bud and should be acceptable with a DAP. But at least get the normal zen 2 and see how you like it versus other options in my opinion


----------



## golov17

musicday said:


> Enjoy your meal.The Tera Player output is 10 Ohm and i think that Zen 2.0 @320 Ohm will work better.


you tried Zen1.0?


----------



## musicday

golov17 said:


> musicday said:
> 
> 
> > Enjoy your meal.The Tera Player output is 10 Ohm and i think that Zen 2.0 @320 Ohm will work better.
> ...



No unfortunately, but other Tera Player owners said it has good synergy.
Monk+ is 64 ohm and works fantastic,but if there is a better earbud for my player i want it


----------



## golov17

musicday said:


> No unfortunately, but other Tera Player owners said it has good synergy.
> Monk+ is 64 ohm and works fantastic,but if there is a better earbud for my player i want it


 http://www.head-fi.org/t/826036/cypherus-audio-products-appreciation-and-discussion-thread-campfred-earbuds-qfred-earbuds-and-cax-golden-reference/60#post_13034382


----------



## Danneq

musicday said:


> No unfortunately, but other Tera Player owners said it has good synergy.
> Monk+ is 64 ohm and works fantastic,but if there is a better earbud for my player i want it


 


 I second golov17. I have never heard Tera player and I didn't really get along with regular Zen 2 and traded them. I find CampFred to be a step up from Zen 1 (which I prefer to Zen 2) and CAX black, which is an upgraded version of CampFred, is another huge step up.
 I have heard most high end earbuds and CAX black easily outdoes them all. Including my old darling Blox TM7.

 CampFred is 32 ohm and I think that CAX black also might be 32 ohm, but it might be best that you ask Herry of Cypherus...


----------



## Ira Delphic

danneq said:


> musicday said:
> 
> 
> > No unfortunately, but other Tera Player owners said it has good synergy.
> ...


 
  
 The Tera player is ...um.. a controversial topic/product. Happy Thanksgiving to those that celebrate!


----------



## musicday

danneq said:


> musicday said:
> 
> 
> > No unfortunately, but other Tera Player owners said it has good synergy.
> ...



Link where to get these please.


----------



## neog007

Finally! Almost as much waiting time as the mojitos...
.


----------



## Danneq

musicday said:


> Link where to get these please.




You can get in contact with Herry, mr Cypherus himself, here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/826036/cypherus-audio-products-appreciation-and-discussion-thread-campfred-earbuds-qfred-earbuds-and-cax-golden-reference


----------



## Anthony Frandi

It asked someone build an earbud for $30, and its awesome! It provides everything I want from an earbud


----------



## teston

Anyone try out Colarad C01 and HE 150Ohm?
 Saw it sale off at penon. Look interesting.
  
 http://penonaudio.com/Colarad-C01

  
 http://penonaudio.com/HE-150ohm-HiFi-Earbud


----------



## JASru

teston said:


> Anyone try out Colarad C01 and HE 150Ohm?
> Saw it sale off at penon. Look interesting.


 
 Сolorad is on the way.


----------



## JASru

I keep comparing the PT-15 and TP-16.
  
 Looks like PT-15 benefits much more from power increase. When I tried it on desktop PC it went a lot better andd smoother. Wish my amp was here.

 For now I would say that PT-15 is really great for classical music ( as was mentioned before). It isn't really neutral, it is **** sig for sure. Do not think that bass is abscent - it is here, but is not boomy or punchy. It just exists. 
 The TP-16 on the other side is a bit less detailed, definetely has more bass, but due to this - less clear ( not by a large margin, but it is audible).

 I would call TP-16 the best budget all-rounder for my tatste so far. It is neutral and well balanced. Aaand it costs enough not to worry about breaking it, though the build is decent.
 But I do not regret ordering second Pt-15 on 11.11 at any rate.
  
 Note: The MMCX on current pair's left bud is rotating like hell, while the right one is too damn tight - anyone has the same issue?


----------



## Tonx

jasru said:


> I keep comparing the PT-15 and TP-16.
> 
> Looks like PT-15 benefits much more from power increase. When I tried it on desktop PC it went a lot better andd smoother. Wish my amp was here.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Quite the opposite in my case - left is tight, right is spinning like a propeller.


----------



## JASru

tonx said:


> Quite the opposite in my case - left is tight, left is spinning like a propeller.


 Soon I will receive my second pair. Lets see if it is mass issue. 
I am sure this will lead to one of the bud sockets to break sooner. Given the price it ain't a big deal, but ain't nice.


----------



## fairx

dw1narso said:


> Guys.. I'm still amazed with TY Hi-Z 32 sound..
> Is there any improvement with the Hi-Z 150, 320 or even 640ohm version.
> 
> I read Vapman wrote that 640 is warmer.. Did I get it right?
> ...



I have ty 32ohm and like it a lot. I also get ty 320 ohm soon after. If you track my post here you can actually see its decreasing. Lol. I'm very happy with my ty 320ohm. I could say it's my endgame for now until i save enough money to get stardust. Right now I just try and match different sources. 

Ty 320ohm is a monster. Love those deep bass and resonance.


----------



## luedriver

I often bypass the chance to use my seahf 32ohm, and I guess it was justified, 
  
 but 3 days ago, I tried them and found out with this site that tones under 500Hz didn't sound right, almost like the drivers were too stiff, 
  
 so I had them burn in with the usual burn-in cycle of 1 hour of pink noise and 10 mins of silence, for 2-3 days on repeat
  
 trying them on today, they did improve but I also think they could improve with a bit more burn in time 
  
 going from notes B4 to C5 was the most revealing, my other earbuds sound much smoother on these 2 notes than seahf
  
 I used these today anyway and was surprised at how "live" videos sounded, 
  
 especially binaural recordings inside cars or the classic barber shop sounded so real, even normal recordings of classical sounded more live, its so weird
  
 so I guess this could be just another earbud that needs a lot of burn-in time out of the box to sound better


----------



## dw1narso

fairx said:


> I have ty 32ohm and like it a lot. I also get ty 320 ohm soon after. If you track my post here you can actually see its decreasing. Lol. I'm very happy with my ty 320ohm. I could say it's my endgame for now until i save enough money to get stardust. Right now I just try and match different sources.
> 
> Ty 320ohm is a monster. Love those deep bass and resonance.


 
  
 Thanks for your impression fairx... so TY320 improvement over TY32 is about refinement and deeper bass...
  
 Sounds like TY32 is real value winner then considering it is much cheaper than TY320.
  
 BTW, Malaysia has the same problem with Indonesia... US$ surge to our countries currencies... (thanks to US next president winning strategy  )
 I must think twice before spending anything now... afraid that my country currency down to spiral...


----------



## mochill

Got pt15, it is smooth and clear out of my x7 and am3


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Balanced Shozy Stardust > Shozy Cygnus.

Better body to sound and bass, based on initial hearing.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Stardust is much clearer and better instrument seperation. Soundstage is comparable to a burned in Cygnus. This is probably what top of the line sounds like. Im very impressed. And the cable is by far the best cable ive ever seen. Incredibly soft but sturdy.


----------



## Nachash

The TY32 sure needed tons of burn in because now they sound pretty damn good, 80hrs at least I'd say for my pair
  
 They were my most hated earbuds


----------



## Raketen

Anyone who did the Stardust preorder direct from Shozy get notified of shipping yet?


----------



## vapman

jasru said:


> Soon I will receive my second pair. Lets see if it is mass issue.
> I am sure this will lead to one of the bud sockets to break sooner. Given the price it ain't a big deal, but ain't nice.


 
 Yes. I had this problem bad with the right but not the left. Typical MMCX problem.
  
 It is why I tried to recable mine with a hard-wired cable. However I didn't realize on the first one I tried to open they were glued and I punctured the driver. Now am waiting on my 2 no cable replacements from HCK. I think after I get these I'm gonna cool it with Aliexpress and do more Taobao'ing. getting fed up with how some of these ali stores treat us...


----------



## kurtextrem

raketen said:


> Anyone who did the Stardust preorder direct from Shozy get notified of shipping yet?


 
 They don't notify, they just ship it. I got mine yesterday


----------



## Raketen

kurtextrem said:


> They don't notify, they just ship it. I got mine yesterday




oh cool... guess I should check my post box lol


----------



## mochill

Stardust is awesome and gets way better , was recommended 100+ hrs minimum


----------



## golov17

Stardust vs Cygnus have same tonal balance?


----------



## mochill

Stardust more ethereal


----------



## Venture Guy

So, @mochill we agree that the Stardusts are really good. Since they are my only data point, what are the top three that you have heard?


----------



## mochill

Nothing beats Zen 2 black edition and asura 2 black editionstardust is a league under


----------



## Venture Guy

mochill said:


> Nothing beats Zen 2 black edition and asura 2 black editionstardust is a league under


 
 So that's why you told me to try the Zen 2 Black next? How do they differ from Asura 2?


----------



## vapman

The advice for VE black editions should be taken with a grain of salt as nearly nobody in this thread owns a black edition Zen let alone a black edition Asura, which I didn't even know existed. Do you own a black edition Asura and can post a pic of it, @mochill
  
 Even impressions of the black Zen 2.0 from people who upgraded from a plain Zen 2 to it are extremely few and far between. We all know mochill thinks it is the best earbud since sliced bread but I have seen maybe 2 impressions of the Black zen 2 from previous plain zen 2 owners.
  
 Black edition Asura 2.0 doesn't seem to be on the veclan site. Would like to see one if it is possible to have one made, and how much it costs. The Asura 2.0 is in the Cygnus' league, IMO.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> The advice for VE black editions should be taken with a grain of salt as nearly nobody in this thread owns a black edition Zen let alone a black edition Asura, which I didn't even know existed. Do you own a black edition Asura and can post a pic of it, @mochill
> 
> 
> Even impressions of the black Zen 2.0 from people who upgraded from a plain Zen 2 to it are extremely few and far between. We all know mochill thinks it is the best earbud since sliced bread but I have seen maybe 2 impressions of the Black zen 2 from previous plain zen 2 owners.
> ...


 yes, he has both, and they are for sale on Taobao


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> yes, he has both, and they are for sale on Taobao


 
 What is this VE official store? I want to send my Asura 2.0 back to be made black edition
  
 Even then it might still not beat my Qian39 mod, is worrying..


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> The advice for VE black editions should be taken with a grain of salt as nearly nobody in this thread owns a black edition Zen let alone a black edition Asura, which I didn't even know existed. Do you own a black edition Asura and can post a pic of it, @mochill
> 
> 
> Even impressions of the black Zen 2.0 from people who upgraded from a plain Zen 2 to it are extremely few and far between. We all know mochill thinks it is the best earbud since sliced bread but I have seen maybe 2 impressions of the Black zen 2 from previous plain zen 2 owners.
> ...




Also remember Zen 2 in general is a bitch to drive.

I personally believe Zen 2 is better than Stardust in terms of sound quality. But the fact that you need an amp and the lack of comfort in Zen 2 to my ears makes me go to Stardust as my daily driver insteadm


----------



## vapman

tayyab pirzada said:


> Also remember Zen 2 in general is a b**** to drive.
> 
> I personally believe Zen 2 is better than Stardust in terms of sound quality. But the fact that you need an amp and the lack of comfort in Zen 2 to my ears makes me go to Stardust as my daily driver insteadm


 
 Yes it is, and wow, I am surprised to hear that the Stardust could not beat the Zen 2 for you bro. I hope it is at least closer of a gap than the Cygnus and Zen? they are kind of different sound signatures, but i understand.


----------



## Raketen

I wonder how much it would cost to buy 20feet of Cardas 26 gauge litz & an Oyaide connector. DIY Black Edition... actually i'd proably need 4 or 5 times that as bad as I am at soldering tiny stuff h34r:


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

vapman said:


> Yes it is, and wow, I am surprised to hear that the Stardust could not beat the Zen 2 for you bro. I hope it is at least closer of a gap than the Cygnus and Zen? they are kind of different sound signatures, but i understand.




I meam based on my sonic memory, Zen 2 was probably better than Stardust. I only just got Stardust today and have to do some burn in and A/B testing to mKe a final decision.


----------



## vapman

raketen said:


> I wonder how much it would cost to buy 20feet of Cardas 26 gauge litz & an Oyaide connector. DIY Black Edition... actually i'd proably need 4 or 5 times that as bad as I am at soldering tiny stuff


 
 Then I would at least not have to ship it back overseas as well. I should probably do it though. Although Cardas is a huge pain to find so maybe I'd finally buy some nucleotide and learn to braid it so it looks good myself.


----------



## mochill

Add me on Facebook and then you can see pics for my collection if you don't trust me


----------



## Spider fan

The cardas cable on the black is a huge pain to use.  It is like 10 times worse than the Red De'mun cable for spinning out of your ears.  Also, dont even think about moving with them on.


----------



## mochill

I have no problem with both


----------



## vapman

mochill said:


> Add me on Facebook and then you can see pics for my collection if you don't trust me


 
 I don't have facebook, and just wanted to see a picture of a black asura 2.0 if it exists. It is not a big deal. I can see they exist from Golov's screenshot but   I did not know if that was an official VE store or not.


----------



## mochill

That is official taobao


----------



## golov17

http://shop.m.taobao.com/shop/shopIndex.htm?spm=a1z5f.7632052.0.0&shop_id=101002046

Some pics from Mo to Vapman


----------



## mochill




----------



## mochill

One or right side with the fin is asura 2 black edition and the one on left without fin is Zen 2 black edition


----------



## vapman

Thanks golov!!! Argh. No 3.5mm around, just 1/4", so I'm holding off on recabling asura 2.0. Isn't the stock wire pretty nice though?? Looks just like the zen 2 wire.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Thanks golov!!! Argh. No 3.5mm around, just 1/4", so I'm holding off on recabling asura 2.0. Isn't the stock wire pretty nice though?? Looks just like the zen 2 wire.


 http://www.cardas.com/insights_golden_section.php


----------



## vapman

I have the VE interconnects too 
  
 Anyone know if the Cardas on the VE Black Editions is 26AWG? Having trouble finding Cardas Litz in that size.


----------



## JASru

vapman said:


> Yes. I had this problem bad with the right but not the left. Typical MMCX problem.
> 
> It is why I tried to recable mine with a hard-wired cable. However I didn't realize on the first one I tried to open they were glued and I punctured the driver. Now am waiting on my 2 no cable replacements from HCK. I think after I get these I'm gonna cool it with Aliexpress and do more Taobao'ing. getting fed up with how some of these ali stores treat us...


 Well I have two MMCX earphones more - one from **** and one from Roses and both are ok. Oh and thx for the glue tip. Wanna try to change the sockets too.


----------



## vapman

jasru said:


> Well I have two MMCX earphones more - one from **** and one from Roses and both are ok. Oh and for the glue tip. Wanna try to change the sockets too.



Here is a busted open PT15 if it helps your future mods. I haven't figured out how to remove the MMCX connection itself.




The driver front does have that pac man looking cutout btw. I am going to try filling it in with some damping material and see what the does to the sound.


----------



## Danneq

mochill said:


> Nothing beats Zen 2 black edition and asura 2 black editionstardust is a league under




Now you have to get Cypherus CAX Black Edition for the battle of the black editions!


----------



## listen4joy

what is the price of   Cypherus CAX Black Edition? and to the owners of stardust is they worth 160$, are they really that good and in the same level of of iems in same price range?


----------



## Danneq

listen4joy said:


> what is the price of   Cypherus CAX Black Edition? and to the owners of stardust is they worth 160$, are they really that good and in the same level of of iems in same price range?




$280 excluding shipping...


----------



## kurtextrem

mochill said:


> Stardust is awesome and gets way better , was recommended 100+ hrs minimum


 
 I think so too. Cygnus also improved a lot after months (as I don't do burn-ins).


----------



## luedriver

golov17 said:


> http://shop.m.taobao.com/shop/shopIndex.htm?spm=a1z5f.7632052.0.0&shop_id=101002046


 
 seems pricey, about $350 AUD for a recabled asura
  
  
 for me ever since I got the monk and saw the zen I wanted a monk re-cabled with zen 2.0 cables, if that even made a difference, I also wished that they had see through face in the front like the zen 2.0 used to have, but it doesn't really matter...
  
 imagine if the monk+ had a black version, would they cost $100 or $200 AUD,  basically saying would they cost as much as a normal asura or a normal zen?


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Cygnus became amazing after a few months in my experience. Epic soundstage and instrument seperation. Only the bass left to be desired.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Here is a busted open PT15 if it helps your future mods. I haven't figured out how to remove the MMCX connection itself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 wire from the coil to magnet will placed top of housing?


----------



## mochill

stardust has the bass you want


----------



## kvad

Just had a chance to listen to the K's 500. Sounds really nice out of the box.
 What kind of foam did people end up with? Listening bare now which is very enjoyable - spacious and clear, but a little lacking at the lower end. Full foams increases the bass, but muddles up it's best qualities (to me). Is ClieOS hole puncher trick the way to go?


----------



## golov17

kvad said:


> Just had a chance to listen to the K's 500. Sounds really nice out of the box.
> What kind of foam did people end up with? Listening bare now which is very enjoyable - spacious and clear, but a little lacking at the lower end. Full foams increases the bass, but muddles up it's best qualities (to me). Is ClieOS hole puncher trick the way to go?


try MP foams


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> wire from the coil to magnet will placed top of housing?




Yup  weird design


----------



## kvad

golov17 said:


> try MP foams


 
  
 Thanks Golov. Had forgotten how fragile the MP foams are, so tore the first one along the edge. Suppose that turned out like a poor mans hole punch : ) Still feel like I prefer them without foams so far though (at least with the current music I'm listening to).


----------



## vapman

kvad i use just rubber rings on my TY 650. Just keeps them in place better than nothing at all.


----------



## haiku

kvad said:


> Thanks Golov. Had forgotten how fragile the MP foams are, so tore the first one along the edge. Suppose that turned out like a poor mans hole punch : ) Still feel like I prefer them without foams so far though (at least with the current music I'm listening to).


 

 Yup, I too have preferred to use them naked.


----------



## Willber

kvad said:


> Just had a chance to listen to the K's 500. Sounds really nice out of the box.
> What kind of foam did people end up with? Listening bare now which is very enjoyable - spacious and clear, but a little lacking at the lower end. Full foams increases the bass, but muddles up it's best qualities (to me). Is ClieOS hole puncher trick the way to go?


 
 Donuts.


----------



## thamasha69

I just found these in a box in my basement- I must have purchased them in the mid 90's when I was a kid. Anybody know anything about them?


----------



## golov17

thamasha69 said:


> I just found these in a box in my basement- I must have purchased them in the mid 90's when I was a kid. Anybody know anything about them?


 http://www.soundstage.com/fringe/fringe021998.htm


----------



## thamasha69

golov17 said:


> http://www.soundstage.com/fringe/fringe021998.htm


 

 Thank you sir. The 20+ year old foams are completely dried/cracked/destroyed - I think I may throw some MP foams on these later tonight and test them out. If for nothing else, I can re-purpose the case for some Monks or something.


----------



## golov17

thamasha69 said:


> Thank you sir. The 20+ year old foams are completely dried/cracked/destroyed - I think I may throw some MP foams on these later tonight and test them out. If for nothing else, I can re-purpose the case for some Monks or something.


only after long burn


----------



## Danneq

I just got a pair of K's 500 ohm (version 2) from a trade (my Shozy Cygnus plus some money for the K500). They sound good, but there is some peaks in the upper mids/treble that bother me a bit. Vocals get an almost nasal quality about them and there is some slight tendency towards being a bit bright. Does that go away with more burn in? I don't know how many hours the former owner had on them but do they change with burn in and/or use?


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> I just got a pair of K's 500 ohm (version 2) from a trade (my Shozy Cygnus plus some money for the K500). They sound good, but there is some peaks in the upper mids/treble that bother me a bit. Vocals get an almost nasal quality about them and there is some slight tendency towards being a bit bright. Does that go away with more burn in? I don't know how many hours the former owner had on them but do they change with burn in and/or use?




I had a similar feeling about the k's 64. A reshell helped but did not completely solve it. I think it is something about how they are tuned but im not sure. If burn in helps then 200 hours isnt enough...


----------



## springbay

danneq said:


> I just got a pair of K's 500 ohm (version 2) from a trade (my Shozy Cygnus plus some money for the K500). They sound good, but there is some peaks in the upper mids/treble that bother me a bit. Vocals get an almost nasal quality about them and there is some slight tendency towards being a bit bright. Does that go away with more burn in? I don't know how many hours the former owner had on them but do they change with burn in and/or use?


 

 Depends on what you are listening to. Kpop, EBM, EDM and such they are great. Just put some donuts on to appreciate that bass.
 Heavy Metal, well not so much.
 Amp them to get a better response.
 Their bass really shines on tracks like HANUMPA -  Howling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qJzpoUOi2Y
  
 Edit
 Krap : Iron - System
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNofxOhpOJA
 Krap : Grace - Trick or Treat
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kIcVvDgMq0
 EBB: FRONT 242 - W.Y.H.I.W.Y.G. 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxY4oKob8fQ
 EDM: T-ARA - Sugarfree (DJ Chuckie)
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAj-7gpPsZM


----------



## gwompki

Is there a thread dedicated to older earbuds? It looks like there are decent deals to be found on discontinued Sennheiser and Sony earbuds but not a whole lot of info available (eg. Sennheiser mx360 and Sony MDR E10lp). I know these aren't high end at all and not on ClieOS list. Just wondering if either of those aforementioned models should be avoided or if they worth picking up for under 15 USD?


----------



## vapman

gwompki said:


> Is there a thread dedicated to older earbuds? It looks like there are decent deals to be found on discontinued Sennheiser and Sony earbuds but not a whole lot of info available (eg. Sennheiser mx360 and Sony MDR E10lp). I know these aren't high end at all and not on ClieOS list. Just wondering if either of those aforementioned models should be avoided or if they worth picking up for under 15 USD?




Sony E808+ on taobao for under 5 bucks is my 2nd favorite sony bud. Kudos to purplesun who rediscovered it.


----------



## gwompki

vapman said:


> Sony E808+ on taobao for under 5 bucks is my 2nd favorite sony bud. Kudos to purplesun who rediscovered it.


 I really need to get over my taobao fear and place an order already!


----------



## vapman

gwompki said:


> I really need to get over my taobao fear and place an order already!




Im still waiting on my mistertao order. I might have made a not ideal choice picking singapore post. Epacket was not an option...


----------



## vapman

Lol, I asked Lee about getting my Asura 2.0 getting made into a black edition. He didn't recommend it unless I was in ultra super love with the Asura 2.0. Well, it's always one of my favorites, but i find it to be a little sibilant on the treble. but I'm always surprised at how good bass is on it. the stock cable is really thin like the Monk cable, so I want to do it with some really nice cable and will see if I can make it sounds a little better. maybe i'll do a thing like @golov17  and stuff the foams in the back of the shells
  
 I got a 200 foot spool of copper litz wire though, so I am going to try a 4 wire braid on a Monk Plus or Sennheiser and if it goes well I will do it to the Asura 2.0 maybe. I also kind of want to put some big heavy 24awg on it. we will see. If I could cure the Asura sibilance it would really be more of a favorite.


----------



## haiku

danneq said:


> I just got a pair of K's 500 ohm (version 2) from a trade (my Shozy Cygnus plus some money for the K500). They sound good, but there is some peaks in the upper mids/treble that bother me a bit. Vocals get an almost nasal quality about them and there is some slight tendency towards being a bit bright. Does that go away with more burn in? I don't know how many hours the former owner had on them but do they change with burn in and/or use?


 

 Spot on, Danneq. No, sadly it doesn´t go away....


----------



## Holypal

vapman said:


> Yup  weird design


 
  
  
 15.4mm 300 ohm drivers for MX500. Maybe better than PT15 drivers:
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/mx500-driver-15-4mm-speaker-unit-300ohms-send-mx500-shell/32599219535.html


----------



## golov17

your opinion? under 60 usd


----------



## vapman

Depends how much edimun shipping is? Hehe


----------



## music4mhell

Just a heads up my beloved frnds..i joined headfi dec'15 .
my first high end audio gear is Chord Mojo and second is zen 2 ...

After that i have spent a good amount of money..on earbuds...

Long story short ...even it's only 2 days ..and still my new gears are in burn in process...but i won't say that i will put a full stop..but for now i can put a comma on buyings..

I am almost at my end game on below set up..

One plus one UAPP + Pure Copper OTG cable + Chord Mojo + Cardas interconnect + VE RA2 + Black zen ..

i never did any reviews..but now it's time to start writing reviews and shoot some youtube vids...which will help others and will save some money..

Happy listening guys...i will put all my earbuds on sale after my reviews are done..

Spiler alert : Shozy stardust is no match against black zen...


----------



## teston

music4mhell said:


> Just a heads up my beloved frnds..i joined headfi dec'15 .
> my first high end audio gear is Chord Mojo and second is zen 2 ...
> 
> After that i have spent a good amount of money..on earbuds...
> ...



Gratz on reaching the end of the game, sir.
I am waiting for your reviews on those TOTL earbuds. I also want to know how do the K's 500 ohm compare to Shozy Stardust, TY HP650 and Zen 2.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> your opinion? under 60 usd


 
  
 On the top of my head:

 DIY DUAL DRIVERS:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z0k.6846577.0.0.jcNa65&id=37119460429&_u=

 LINGSI X35:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z0k.6846577.0.0.jcNa65&id=38265311694&_u=

 TOMAHAWKS (Some hate it, but I like it):
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z0k.6846577.0.0.jcNa65&id=40405680265&_u=


 *Just my personal opinion


----------



## Spider fan

audionewbi3 said:


> On the top of my head:
> 
> DIY DUAL DRIVERS:
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z0k.6846577.0.0.jcNa65&id=37119460429&_u=
> ...


 

 I was going to say the DIY Dual Drivers too.


----------



## ozkan

Hey guys should I buy Edifier H180 if I like Philips SHE3800?


----------



## ozkan

gwompki said:


> Is there a thread dedicated to older earbuds? It looks like there are decent deals to be found on discontinued Sennheiser and Sony earbuds but not a whole lot of info available (eg. Sennheiser mx360 and Sony MDR E10lp). I know these aren't high end at all and not on ClieOS list. Just wondering if either of those aforementioned models should be avoided or if they worth picking up for under 15 USD?




IMO you won't need any older Sennheiser or Sony earbuds if you already have Monk or Philips SHE3800. They are all inferior earbuds for me  Btw I found a seller on eBay who sells Sony E808. 

http://m.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-sony-MDR-E808-Headphone-earphone-/252402579853?_trkparms=aid%253D222007%2526algo%253DSIC.MBE%2526ao%253D1%2526asc%253D20150519202348%2526meid%253D114baa9d1b1b428f9ccae863f69c4c3d%2526pid%253D100408%2526rk%253D3%2526rkt%253D24%2526sd%253D251946978853&_trksid=p2056116.c100408.m2460


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> Just a heads up my beloved frnds..i joined headfi dec'15 .
> my first high end audio gear is Chord Mojo and second is zen 2 ...
> 
> After that i have spent a good amount of money..on earbuds...
> ...




Now there's just CAX black edition left and then you will have two end game black edition earbuds.


----------



## Danneq

haiku said:


> Spot on, Danneq. No, sadly it doesn´t go away....




Too bad. The pure analogue sound of Cypherus earbuds has spoilt me...




golov17 said:


> your opinion? under 60 usd




Dark Horse ES-E2 or 调音师 三频女王 (Sound Tuner's "Queen") from Taobao. About $50 in total if you buy with a Taobao agent.


----------



## Tomasz2D

music4mhell said:


> I am almost at my end game on below set up..
> One plus one UAPP + Pure Copper OTG cable + Chord Mojo + Cardas interconnect + VE RA2 + Black zen ..


 
 Nice setup. Please share your impressions about differences between standard and black Zen 2.0 when you are ready.


----------



## purplesun

gwompki said:


> I really need to get over my taobao fear and place an order already!



It's about $2 to $3 bucks on taobao. But there's a seller on Ali as well for $3.66.
Important note: It's MDR-E808+ (not MDR-E808). E808+ stamped on the splitter & 5-of-diamond cut holes behind the front mesh.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Original-MDR-E808-Bass-Noise-Isolating-Earphone-3-5MM-High-Qaulity-Flat-Head-Earbuds-In-Ear/1909638_32742308384.html

V-shaped sound similar to TY Hi-z 32. About same bass response as TY32. Slightly better control in mids/highs than TY32 and cleaner sounding. J-cabled.
AFAIK, E808+ is not part of Sony's product line, much like SHE3800 is not in Philips' product list.


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> It's about $2 to $3 bucks on taobao. But there's a seller on Ali as well for $3.66.
> Important note: It's MDR-E808+ (not MDR-E808). E808+ stamped on the splitter & 5-of-diamond cut holes behind the front mesh.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Original-MDR-E808-Bass-Noise-Isolating-Earphone-3-5MM-High-Qaulity-Flat-Head-Earbuds-In-Ear/1909638_32742308384.html
> ...


 
 Yep, that's the one. Going to do one up with a fancy cable and connector soon. But, the opening for the cable is so tiny I'm worried if I can even fit a braided cable made from 4x total strands of 28 AWG equivalent in there... i already think 2x 24AWG is a lost cause...


----------



## Nachash

ozkan said:


> Hey guys should I buy Edifier H180 if I like Philips SHE3800?


 
  
 The 'Philips' is so cheap that you shouldn't even think about it, buy both of them


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> Yep, that's the one. Going to do one up with a fancy cable and connector soon. But, the opening for the cable is so tiny I'm worried if I can even fit a braided cable made from 4x total strands of 28 AWG equivalent in there... i already think 2x 24AWG is a lost cause...


 

 E808+ uses 16mm drivers. Might as well drop in better Sony 16mm bio-cellulose drivers while re-cabling; if you happen to have a new pair lying around 
  
 IMO, the bass reflex ports in E808+ does a really good job bumping up the mid & lower bass, so even PT15 drivers may come out more balanced in the E808+ shell.


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> E808+ uses 16mm drivers. Might as well drop in better Sony 16mm bio-cellulose drivers while re-cabling; if you happen to have a new pair lying around
> 
> IMO, the bass reflex ports in E808+ does a really good job bumping up the mid & lower bass, so even PT15 drivers may come out more balanced in the E808+ shell.


 
 Those Aliexpress Sony 16mm drivers - I've been trying every shell I can and they're really dang hard to match with any housing. The best so far was a Baldoor E100 shell but still was just a bit too big.... I found some 16mm specific shells on ali eventually and have those on the way too.
  
 I am about to place an order for more E808+ as I really truly love the sound of the driver and find it be quite similar to an Asura 2.0 minus the sibilance! I am determined to try and get some braided wire in the shell although it might be a pipe dream, or I just need to buy some thinner wire.


----------



## vapman

ozkan said:


> Hey guys should I buy Edifier H180 if I like Philips SHE3800?


 
 lol. funny you ask this. I just busted open my H180 a few days ago when I was getting the PT15 drivers ready for transplant. The fit is perfect. Anyway, back on topic... I did a quick  A/B between the H180 and SHE3800 before opening it up. since i have several other SHE3800. well, the H180 was simply horrible in comparison to the SHE3800. Sounded really, really REALLY bad. The SHE3800 is a godly bud.


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> I am about to place an order for more E808+ as I really truly love the sound of the driver and find it be quite similar to an Asura 2.0 minus the sibilance! I am determined to try and get some braided wire in the shell although it might be a pipe dream, or I just need to buy some thinner wire.


 
  
 I have another few more coming on the slow boat as well. Apparently, the original Sony-E808 earbuds were included free with just about every Sony walkman & MP3 products, prior to Sony switching to free IEMs in more recent years. The original E808 was suppose to sound like a poor man's E888; decent mids/highs but little bass. But with MDR-E808+ came meatier bass and more refined mids, while keeping the sibilance-free highs.


----------



## ozkan

purplesun said:


> I have another few more coming on the slow boat as well. Apparently, the original Sony-E808 earbuds were included free with just about every Sony walkman & MP3 products, prior to Sony switching to free IEMs in more recent years. The original E808 was suppose to sound like a poor man's E888; decent mids/highs but little bass. But with MDR-E808+ came meatier bass and more refined mids, while keeping the sibilance-free highs.




So do you think it sounds better than the Monk or SHE3800 if you have them? Might pull the trigger on these and buy 2 or 3 pcs


----------



## purplesun

ozkan said:


> So do you think it sounds better than the Monk or SHE3800 if you have them? Might pull the trigger on these and buy 2 or 3 pcs




The clarity of it's sound signature suits me better than Monk Plus or SHE3800 (which I also like). The bass response is just a bonus. My guess is that anyone who likes TY Hi-z 32 or KZ-ATE IEM will probably enjoy the E808+ as well.


----------



## Willber

purplesun said:


> ozkan said:
> 
> 
> > So do you think it sounds better than the Monk or SHE3800 if you have them? Might pull the trigger on these and buy 2 or 3 pcs
> ...


 

 I like both the Hi-Z 32 and ATE so have pulled the trigger on the 'Sony'. A no-brainer at £3!


----------



## ozkan

willber said:


> I like both the Hi-Z 32 and ATE so have pulled the trigger on the 'Sony'. A no-brainer at £3!




Me too.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

www.penonaudio.com has a bunch of earbuds on sale, all with free shipping:


 Colarad C01 - $11.90: http://penonaudio.com/Colarad-C01

 HE 150ohm - $11.90: http://penonaudio.com/HE-150ohm-HiFi-Earbud?limit=100

 Hifiman ES100 - $49.00:  http://penonaudio.com/Hifiman-ES100?limit=100
  
 Hisoundaudio PAA-1PRO - $39.00: http://penonaudio.com/Hisoundaudio-PAA-1PRO?limit=100
  
 MusicMaker Ting - $62.00:  http://penonaudio.com/MusicMaker-Ting?limit=100
  
 MusicMaker TONEKING TKY2 - $80.00:  http://penonaudio.com/MusicMaker-TONEKING-TKY2?limit=100
  
 MusicMaker Tomahawk MrZ - $35.90:  http://penonaudio.com/MUSICMAKER-Tomahawk-MrZ?limit=100
  
 MusicMaker TP15 - $15.00:  http://penonaudio.com/MusicMaker-TP16%20?limit=100
  
 Paiaudio PR1 - $17.00:  http://penonaudio.com/Paiaudio-PR1?limit=100

 Rose Masya 2 - $98:  http://penonaudio.com/Rose-Masya?limit=100

 Rose Mojito 3D - $207:_*  *_http://penonaudio.com/Rose-Mojito-dual-dynamic-driver-earbud?limit=100

 Seahf 32ohm - $11.90:  http://penonaudio.com/Seahf-32ohm-Earbud?limit=100
  
 --


----------



## Saoshyant

Decided for $4 to order the E808 too.


----------



## AT Khan

my two cents


----------



## awaysooner

vapman said:


> Those Aliexpress Sony 16mm drivers - I've been trying every shell I can and they're really dang hard to match with any housing. The best so far was a Baldoor E100 shell but still was just a bit too big.... I found some 16mm specific shells on ali eventually and have those on the way too.
> 
> I am about to place an order for more E808+ as I really truly love the sound of the driver and find it be quite similar to an Asura 2.0 minus the sibilance! I am determined to try and get some braided wire in the shell although it might be a pipe dream, or I just need to buy some thinner wire.


 
 This cable is actually quite thin, cheap enough you can try. Take a look at it in MX shell.  I bought a mic version for the Monk+ before they released current version. Looks nice and super soft as well, but a tangling mess, might consider sleeving it. 
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Newest-Black-1-2M-DIY-Replacement-wire-Audio-Cable-Headphone-Repair-Headset-Wire-DIY-Headphone-Earphone/32704685114.html


----------



## Fabi

While waiting for my 11.11 earbuds to arrive, I had the chance to try some awesome gear.
 HP400s sounds darn good on iDSD Black Label on Turbo mode. 
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



And iCAN Pro on high gain and Tube+ mode


----------



## vapman

fabi said:


> While waiting for my 11.11 earbuds to arrive, I had the chance to try some awesome gear.
> HP400s sounds darn good on iDSD Black Label on Turbo mode.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Jealous!!! I really want to try out the new iDSD. Curious if it could make me want to replace my current setup.
  
@golov17  Does putting monk+ foam in asura 2.0 help the sibilant treble?


----------



## gwompki

vapman said:


> Yep, that's the one. Going to do one up with a fancy cable and connector soon. But, the opening for the cable is so tiny I'm worried if I can even fit a braided cable made from 4x total strands of 28 AWG equivalent in there... i already think 2x 24AWG is a lost cause...




I had the same problem with Yuin type shells. I was able to bore out the channel wide enough with a drill bit turning by hand. The shells look fairly similar so you might be able to do the same thing with these. 

I will definitely be ordering some of these. Thanks for the recommendations all.


----------



## vapman

gwompki said:


> I had the same problem with Yuin type shells. I was able to bore out the channel wide enough with a drill bit turning by hand. The shells look fairly similar so you might be able to do the same thing with these.
> 
> I will definitely be ordering some of these. Thanks for the recommendations all.


 
 Hmm, good to know. I need to probably get some wire that's the size of the Cygnus wire. I don't know what gauge that wire is and don't have tools to measure that finely. I also have some yuin type shells that should be here any day now. I don't own a drill so i'm worried, haha.


----------



## ozkan

The tools you'll need to drill lol


----------



## Akmola Lola

Hi guys, wanna ask, so far ive only owned monk plus, tomahawk and ting.. but all of the 'high end' ear bud are very high impendance.. so as i understand, it needs more power to enable the earbud to fully perform, as compared to most iem 16-32 ohm.. i currently own X1+Q1 as my main source (line out). what is the budget source that can power example, a 500-600 ohm earbuds like VE Zen?
  
 sorry im not an audiophile just trying to understand.
  
 cheers


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Jealous!!! I really want to try out the new iDSD. Curious if it could make me want to replace my current setup.
> 
> @golov17
> Does putting monk+ foam in asura 2.0 help the sibilant treble?


 on the contrary, it is done to be able to use with foams


----------



## music4mhell

What's up guys, what's happening


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> What's up guys, what's happening


about? ☺


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > What's up guys, what's happening
> ...


 
 Anything related to Earbuds


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> Anything related to Earbuds


 A LOT!


----------



## magitka27

akmola lola said:


> Hi guys, wanna ask, so far ive only owned monk plus, tomahawk and ting.. but all of the 'high end' ear bud are very high impendance.. so as i understand, it needs more power to enable the earbud to fully perform, as compared to most iem 16-32 ohm.. i currently own X1+Q1 as my main source (line out). what is the budget source that can power example, a 500-600 ohm earbuds like VE Zen?
> 
> sorry im not an audiophile just trying to understand.
> 
> cheers




I used x1 + nx3 combo, so far i tried seahf 150ohm smart 1.0 (white housing white cable) and asura 2.0 ,

If ure worried about the power output of nx1, the only advice from me is to change the nx1 into fiio e12 / e12a that more powerfull , 

X1+Q1 drove my seahf smart 1.0 150ohm nicely, 


And i'm attached into asura 2.0 + fiio x5ii combo 

Omg this hobby sooo demanding but somehow i sont regret to have this kind of hobby xD


----------



## Akmola Lola

magitka27 said:


> I used x1 + nx3 combo, so far i tried seahf 150ohm smart 1.0 (white housing white cable) and asura 2.0 ,
> 
> If ure worried about the power output of nx1, the only advice from me is to change the nx1 into fiio e12 / e12a that more powerfull ,
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks man for your info.. 
  
 in layman terms, when im looking at new DAP or Amp, to correlate with the intention to pair it with demanding high impendance earbud or cans, what should i look for in the specifications sheet? the Max Output section?
  
 i notice Fiio 12a output is from 16 Ohm - 300 Ohm ( saw it in the review of 12a here in headfi hihi)
  
 learned new things today.


----------



## Danneq

akmola lola said:


> Hi guys, wanna ask, so far ive only owned monk plus, tomahawk and ting.. but all of the 'high end' ear bud are very high impendance.. so as i understand, it needs more power to enable the earbud to fully perform, as compared to most iem 16-32 ohm.. i currently own X1+Q1 as my main source (line out). what is the budget source that can power example, a 500-600 ohm earbuds like VE Zen?
> 
> sorry im not an audiophile just trying to understand.
> 
> cheers


 

 Not all high end earbuds have high impedance. If you look at ClieOS' ranking of the champions 5 out of 7 have pretty low impedance (12-32 ohm). Of the ones currently sold I think that Shozy Stardust is 16ohm while Rose Mojito and Masya is 12ohm (correct me if I am wrong). Sennheiser MX985 and Blox TM7 are 32ohm.
 Some high impedance earbuds can still be driven out of a phone or DAP because of high sensitivity.


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> What's up guys, what's happening


 


 I think people are waiting for their 11.11 purchases...


----------



## Raketen

akmola lola said:


> Thanks man for your info..
> 
> in layman terms, when im looking at new DAP or Amp, to correlate with the intention to pair it with demanding high impendance earbud or cans, what should i look for in the specifications sheet? the Max Output section?
> 
> ...





You can kind of get by with whatever the amp rates as its stable load ohm range like you shared from the Fiio 12a, but this isn't necessarily complete picture- if you want to be sure for a specific set of headphones there are some calculators and guides out there

I only have simplistic idea myself, but to calculate: need headphone sensitivity ( given in dB @ 1mW) & headphone impedance (ohms). For the amplifier, in terms of driving power I think continuous max output (VRMS or mW) @ load (ohms) is the key spec - i.e. will look something like 2.1VRMS @ 32 Ohms or 150mW@250 ohms. 

More in depth this a useful relatively simplified guide (can click on that graph and will take you to a googledocs with a table you can figure desired amp max output using your headphones sensitivity) http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=1285 ]

Also good: http://www.apexhifi.com/specs.html


----------



## Tic-Tac

Currently I'm using Apple Earpods with my Fiio E10K for PC and I want to be done with this _sound_ torture because fit and comfort are spot on for my ears  I'm looking for some full sound/immersive/engaging earbuds similar in shape to these and I really don't want to spend more than 50$/€. Any choice for me?


----------



## JASru

tic-tac said:


> Currently I'm using Apple Earpods with my Fiio E10K for PC and I want to be done with this _sound_ torture because fit and comfort are spot on for my ears  I'm looking for some full sound/immersive/engaging earbuds similar in shape to these and I really don't want to spend more than 50$/€. Any choice for me?


 
 I guess the best option would be to get a cheapo-pack  to decide on what you like - SHE3800, Qian39, VE monk+  - around 20 USD combined. Perhaps you will be satisfied with one of theese, or it will help you to choose the right direction. 

 30USD left for next step is most likely enough to get you the desired sound if your expectations are not very high (which isn't likely if you are using earpods=D).
  
 RX-1, TP-16, Tomahawk, Boarseman CX98s, Ting Light, PT-15, TY-150 etc all cost around 30 (some cost slightly more) , but buying them blindly is a gamble given your budget.


----------



## luedriver

tic-tac said:


> Currently I'm using Apple Earpods with my Fiio E10K for PC and I want to be done with this _sound_ torture because fit and comfort are spot on for my ears  I'm looking for some full sound/immersive/engaging earbuds similar in shape to these and I really don't want to spend more than 50$/€. Any choice for me?


 
 it is kinda weird how the earpod shape hasn't caught on more and that the Sennheiser shell is as popular as it is being almost a given that an earbud would have the same mx500 shell, I bought some philips she3200, looking for another earbud that had a similar shape, although it has deeper sub bass I wouldn't recommend these earbuds, to anyone that is looking for anything better than earpods
  
 the words "full sound/immersive/engaging", makes me think of my shozy cygnus, although they cost almost double your budget
  
 as the post above suggests, I could recommend trying your luck with some SHE3800, as some have said that they can vary in sound quality from earbud to earbud, but in my honest opinion are very comfortable, more than the mx500 shell, (that I have gotten used to by now)


----------



## rockingthearies

danneq said:


> I think people are waiting for their 11.11 purchases...




Yes most definitely and not just waiting but anxiously waiting hahahaha


----------



## Tic-Tac

@JASru @luedriver Thanks! 
  
 Well my big budget will go to over ear headphones but lately I find myself more comfortable with earpods, no pressure on ears, no pressure on the head etc. Now, I just have to find some good fit and great sound ones. The reason for that "full body sound" is beacuse I'm not into music production, I don't require analytical sound but also I simply hate beats type of sound  and anything with bloated/boomy bass, I need "immersion" and quality beacuse I watch a lot of movies, play games and listening to music on my PC.
  
 Apple Earbuds to me sound a bit "thin and cheap" with almost non-existent bass, very recessed mids and cheap highs but that fit, omg!  I love that comfort that they are giving me and that's about it for them.
  
 Now, I've seen some Chinese models, many sold and pretty high ranked ones such as : AUGLAMOUR RX-1, KZ ATE, KZ ZST etc.


----------



## Danneq

I second the Shozy Cygnus suggestion. They cost around $80-85 but are definitely worth the price. Personally I do not think that many earbuds around $40-50 can beat stuff like the $5 Monk+. Tomahawk beats Monk+ in my ears, but they are not really "immersive". Definitely engaging, but while some will love it others will hate it. Shozy Cygnus is a safer bet although twice the price...


----------



## kurtextrem

Has anyone tried the monk+ foams on the Stardust? Do they improve something?


----------



## music4mhell

kurtextrem said:


> Has anyone tried the monk+ foams on the Stardust? Do they improve something?


 
 I use Monk+ foams on my all earbuds


----------



## Willber

tic-tac said:


> @JASru @luedriver Thanks!
> 
> Well my big budget will go to over ear headphones but lately I find myself more comfortable with earpods, no pressure on ears, no pressure on the head etc. Now, I just have to find some good fit and great sound ones. The reason for that "full body sound" is beacuse I'm not into music production, I don't require analytical sound but also I simply hate beats type of sound  and anything with bloated/boomy bass, I need "immersion" and quality beacuse I watch a lot of movies, play games and listening to music on my PC.
> 
> ...


 

 The cheapies that @JASru suggested are a good place to start. Of the three I find that the Qian39 has the most balanced signature across the frequency range along with good clarity and decent soundstage. They are also slightly smaller so a bit more comfortable for me. But I suggest getting all three to help you decide your preferences.
  
 The AG RX-1 are good quality but lacking bass in some opinions, including mine. Also they are bulky and heavy - I don't find them comfortable. The KZ ATE and ZST are both IEMs so not what you're looking for.


----------



## JASru

willber said:


> The cheapies that @JASru
> suggested are a good place to start. Of the three I find that the Qian39 has the most balanced signature across the frequency range along with good clarity and decent soundstage. They are also slightly smaller so a bit more comfortable for me. But I suggest getting all three to help you decide your preferences.
> 
> The AG RX-1 are good quality but lacking bass in some opinions, including mine. Also they are bulky and heavy - I don't find them comfortable. The KZ ATE and ZST are both IEMs so not what you're looking for.


 I guess he meant R-1.Not sure, though. 
And I would agree that RX-1 are kinda heavy, but bulky - not really imo. They clearly lack bass, but there are mystical beings out there, some call them trebleheads  
Nevertheless RX-1 excels at indie-pop, glitch (not glitch-hop) and vocal-string genres of music. It is narrow scoped one. I remeber some one calling it baby-cygnus, which might be accurate.


----------



## Tic-Tac

I don't have problems with IEMs as far as they are comfortable, in some sense Apple Earbuds are semi-IEMs beacuse they stretch a bit into ear canal. I just don't like "bullet" style IEMs because they are falling off my ears quickly and I can't have a good fit with those. The only way for me to have a good fit is to shove them deep into my ear canal which I don't like.
  
 Because of that I think that these kind of IEMs are possibly good for me, they don't go deep into ear canal and they have secure fit : 
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-KZ-ZST-Balanced-Armature-In-ear-Earphone-BA-Driver-Noise-Cancelling-Headset-With-Mic-Replacement/519064_32731467414.html?spm=2114.12010108.1000023.9.xbvV7Y
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-Arrival-Original-KZATE-3-5mm-in-ear-Earphones-HIFI-Metal-Stereo-Earphones-Super-Bass-noise/1825606_32372202897.html
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2015-New-Professional-Metal-Earphones-HCEJ-090-For-MP3-4-Computer-Phone-Universal-Ear-Hook-HIFI/1825606_32382715422.html
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/4pcs-speaker-DIY-VJJB-V1-in-ear-universal-Hifi-metal-earphone-earbud-with-remote-and/519064_32381736426.html


----------



## JASru

tic-tac said:


> I don't have problems with IEMs as far as they are comfortable, in some sense Apple Earbuds are semi-IEMs beacuse they stretch a bit into ear canal. I just don't like "bullet" style IEMs because they are falling off my ears quickly and I can't have a good fit with those. The only way for me to have a good fit is to shove them deep into my ear canal which I don't like.
> 
> Because of that I think that these kind of IEMs are possibly good for me, they don't go deep into ear canal and they have secure fit :
> 
> ...


 
 If you want the sound to be directed to your ear canal from an earbud - there are tips with this form, I guess you may find the link if  you search through this thread. 
 They can be put on most buds, but the question is how would they affect the SQ.


----------



## vapman

tic-tac said:


> I don't have problems with IEMs as far as they are comfortable, in some sense Apple Earbuds are semi-IEMs beacuse they stretch a bit into ear canal. I just don't like "bullet" style IEMs because they are falling off my ears quickly and I can't have a good fit with those. The only way for me to have a good fit is to shove them deep into my ear canal which I don't like.
> 
> Because of that I think that these kind of IEMs are possibly good for me, they don't go deep into ear canal and they have secure fit :
> 
> ...


 
 All of those look like IEMs to me, which this thread is not for discussing.
  
 I know there are some kinds of covers for earbuds you can buy that make it semi focused into your canal like the Yurbuds. Sounds like that's what you want.
  

  
  
 if you want the IEMs like you link I would recommend checking out the Chinese/Asian Brands thread. lots of IEM talk there.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Alright gents, since it's been such a long time since my last review/impressions, I have decided to briefly write on the Lingxi X35:


  
  
  
*Songs utilized for the impression:*
  
YokoShimomura-Somnus 
  
HirokoShimabukuro-Warabigami 
  
AcousticCafe-LastCarnival 
  
 HirokoShimabukuro-TinsaguNuHana

*Gear used:*

 Xduoo X3 (RB'ed)===>DIY 12 STRAND COOPER IC===>BPH-U1 PORTABLE AMP===>Lingxi X35 (Monk+ Thin Foams)
  
*Impressions:*
  
 Lows:
 Present, thin, they have quick attack and decay. I would call these earbuds bass light. However, double-bass notes (presumably sub-bass region) can be felt and heard with some "body"

 Mids:
 Recessed and thinned out vocals, lack of a sense of lushness. Must be noted that for pieces like Somnus, this may actually work out well as you will be presented with a sense of scale ad clarity. However, for pop songs like those from Hiroko, vocals, especially female vocals, can be border-line sibilant. Piano keys sound clear, well defined, but they lack "meat" or "a sense of body".

 Highs:
 Perhaps the strong point of these earbuds. Detail retrieval is surprisingly good. Highs are well extended but they do feel a wee bit grainy at times. Highs is not as refined as the DIY Dual Drivers from the same maker (judging by memory), highs on these earbuds do not give a sense of sparkle.

 Soundstage:
 Very wide for the price, however, they do not extend deep. Cygnus's soundstage is deeper when compared with the X35.

 Overall:
 I would say the X35 gives presents itself as an "airy" earbud, I would consider resolution and instrument separation very good for the price. The X35 is perhaps tuned to be neutral with a touch of "coldness"; if you like warm sounding earbuds, these are not for you.

 They have a sound-signature of: *xxX*

 Finally, if anyone is interested in purchasing these, here is the TB link:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z0k.6846577.0.0.a9VuZI&id=38265311694&_u=   

_*I am not affiliated with the seller and I bought these buds by paying the full price. The opinions expressed in this brief review/impressions is purely my own and maybe subject to change. As always, take it with a grain of salt as YMMV._

 Thank-you


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Btw, id this Zen2 cable?

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.19.CeQyek&id=536737636474&ns=1&abbucket=13#detail


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Btw, id this Zen2 cable?
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.19.CeQyek&id=536737636474&ns=1&abbucket=13#detail


nope


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> nope


 
 Alright! Thanks!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Like I said a few times, I have no need to buy anymore earbuds.  
  
 So.... I just ordered *K's 500Ω - Version 2 (Balanced)*.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 It is one of @ClieOS Champions, so I am really looking forward to hearing it for myself.
  
 --


----------



## Ira Delphic

jasru said:


> tic-tac said:
> 
> 
> > I don't have problems with IEMs as far as they are comfortable, in some sense Apple Earbuds are semi-IEMs beacuse they stretch a bit into ear canal. I just don't like "bullet" style IEMs because they are falling off my ears quickly and I can't have a good fit with those. The only way for me to have a good fit is to shove them deep into my ear canal which I don't like.
> ...


 
  
 I tried Yurbud tips with earbuds and it messes with the sound as you can imagine - and not in a good way from my tests. But after cutting away the part that inters the ear canal I made a pretty nice tip to hold the earbud in place. I made a bunch of posts about this in the past.


----------



## Fabi

vapman said:


> Jealous!!! I really want to try out the new iDSD. Curious if it could make me want to replace my current setup.


 
 Well, I can't say if this version sounds better than the stock version. But for a portable size all-in-one Dac, amp or Dac/amp with many settings available, it can drive almost everything very well I guess.
  
 Btw, I made 2 earbuds orders on 11.11, one is coming this week and after many PMs, the other one has just been shipped 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 aaaargh
 Life is hard, life is not 'easy'.


----------



## Moscow

Any thoughts on what is a sound difference between Sender PT15 and 1more eo320?
Same price range.

That guy offers blue, black and silver cables. Is it just color variety?
New **** PT15 Earburd Graphite bush Dynamic Driver In Ear Earphone HIFI Earplhone With MMCX Interface
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/32756183154/32756183154.html


----------



## Saoshyant

danneq My first 11.11 purchase should arrive today, but sadly not one of the earbuds. This one is a microdiver. Here's hoping the earbuds make an appearance in the US soon.


----------



## boblauer

bloodypenguin said:


> Like I said a few times, I have no need to buy anymore earbuds.
> 
> So.... I just ordered *K's 500Ω - Version 2 (Balanced)*.
> 
> ...


 
 I can relate. I keep saying the same thing and keep buying along with more storage cases.


----------



## Brandon7s

vapman said:


> All of those look like IEMs to me, which this thread is not for discussing.
> 
> I know there are some kinds of covers for earbuds you can buy that make it semi focused into your canal like the Yurbuds. Sounds like that's what you want.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have these (in red) and have tried them on a few of my buds: HP-650, Masya, TY 150Ohms, and Monk+.
  
  My impression is that they completely destroy the soundstage of the earbuds, as well as compressing the extremes at both highs and lows. It's a lot like listening to music through a tunnel... which, I suppose, is exactly what using these is. Would not recommend unless you're using them while exercising. They do keep the earbuds in your ears pretty well. You're better off using the silicone wings instead.


----------



## vapman

On the topic of 11.11 frustration- only one of my 11.11 orders showed up so far...

I didnt buy any buds on ali that day but i did buy on taobao who was also having a 11.11 sale of their own. So mistertao is responsible for all my 11.11 stuff


----------



## AT Khan

vapman said:


> tic-tac said:
> 
> 
> > I don't have problems with IEMs as far as they are comfortable, in some sense Apple Earbuds are semi-IEMs beacuse they stretch a bit into ear canal. I just don't like "bullet" style IEMs because they are falling off my ears quickly and I can't have a good fit with those. The only way for me to have a good fit is to shove them deep into my ear canal which I don't like.
> ...


 

 I didn't recommend these when I tried them, and now most don't. Honestly takes the fun away completely. Buds become IEMs again... PIPE SOUND. I Say no.


----------



## AT Khan

vapman said:


> On the topic of 11.11 frustration- only one of my 11.11 orders showed up so far...
> 
> I didnt buy any buds on ali that day but i did buy on taobao who was also having a 11.11 sale of their own. So mistertao is responsible for all my 11.11 stuff


 

 You can say that again. Well i got two of my buds. Rest still on the way. BTW I'm really impressed by how the TY HiZ 32Ohm have trumped... donalded? Ok, Trumped... my VE Monks and Benjies and stuff. Is the 650 one the best bud out there? Price is still very steep. But I'm curious.
  
 I'd wish for at least CNC alloy shells at $110 hehehe... Maybe, if someone does it. TY, most of all.
  
 What if we tried these drivers in the Auglamour RX-1 shells?


----------



## tinkertailor

vapman said:


> On the topic of 11.11 frustration- only one of my 11.11 orders showed up so far...
> 
> I didnt buy any buds on ali that day but i did buy on taobao who was also having a 11.11 sale of their own. So mistertao is responsible for all my 11.11 stuff


 
 Im still waiting on two orders from  october 20 and 22.


----------



## rockingthearies

Just received my shozy cygnus today, its second hand but I am still very happy with them. I like the Cygnus in terms of their sound signature much better than the K500. Felt that the K500 was abit too bright for me. However, the cygnus does not resolves as much details as the K500 does and also loses in terms separation. Felt that the K500 bass was better than the Cygnus too. If the cygnus had more quantity in bass would be great for me. Overall, these earbuds really project vocals very well. I am just immersing in all my more vocal oriented songs now. Not to mention they feel much more comfortable because of its smaller housing! Now I feel the urge to save up for the Stardust but I need to save up for a DAC too, my wallet is gonna hurt.


----------



## ryanjsoo

rockingthearies said:


> Just received my shozy cygnus today, its second hand but I am still very happy with them. I like the Cygnus in terms of their sound signature much better than the K500. Felt that the K500 was abit too bright for me. However, the cygnus does not resolves as much details as the K500 does and also loses in terms separation. Felt that the K500 bass was better than the Cygnus too. If the cygnus had more quantity in bass would be great for me. Overall, these earbuds really project vocals very well. I am just immersing in all my more vocal oriented songs now. Not to mention they feel much more comfortable because of its smaller housing! Now I feel the urge to save up for the Stardust but I need to save up for a DAC too, my wallet is gonna hurt.


 
 Might want to give the Hiegi foams a go then, in my experience they both increased the lower/sub-bass quantity and slightly brightened up the mids and high end. Penon sell them for around $3 a pack with free shipping, worth a go.


----------



## vapman

@ozkan , @springbay , and any other blutac users,
 do you find it decreases bass response? hoping i can find a way to push mids forward a bit with some blu tac use...
  
 BTW Hiegi foams are on Amazon Prime too. Just got a set of full cover Hiegi in black, 5.50.


----------



## Raketen

got me Stardust in... thanks for the heads-up @kurtextrem they probably would have sat in my box for another week or two before I checked it 

really like these shells (yuin-type right?), probably the most comfortable but secure buds I've tried so far


----------



## tintheman

Hi everyone, just tried the Sony old HPM-64 with an extension cable, its sound is very good and fit is great. Now I will buy MH-500 to see if it's also good. Also, the recommendation from Golov on the Remax RM303 is also great but the fit was not so good and I have to use wing tip to keep them in place. It's fun to revisit the old time buds


----------



## vapman

tintheman said:


> Hi everyone, just tried the Sony old HPM-64 with an extension cable, its sound is very good and fit is great. Now I will buy MH-500 to see if it's also good. Also, the recommendation from Golov on the Remax RM303 is also great but the fit was not so good and I have to use wing tip to keep them in place. It's fun to revisit the old time buds


 
 Hpm64 apparently does not have a lot of modding potential (Iriyan of Bengkel Macro tried it and was not impressed before finding H180) but I am still messing with mine. I like the e808+ more though... just wish i could bring out the mids a bit...


----------



## tintheman

I thought the Hpm64 SQ was pretty good, I thought it had almost a mini 3D sound stage when I listened to some songs. Is the E808+ from Aliexpress https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-MDR-E808-Bass-Noise-Isolating-Earphone-3-5MM-High-Qaulity-Flat-Head-Earbuds-In-Ear/32742308384.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.DQ7HsG?
 I will try that too...


----------



## vapman

tintheman said:


> I thought the Hpm64 SQ was pretty good, I thought it had almost a mini 3D sound stage when I listened to some songs. Is the E808+ from Aliexpress https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-MDR-E808-Bass-Noise-Isolating-Earphone-3-5MM-High-Qaulity-Flat-Head-Earbuds-In-Ear/32742308384.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.DQ7HsG?
> I will try that too...


 
 That's it and I recommend grabbing it during the sale. I have 3 sets (one here and 2 on the way). I am going to recable at least one when the others get here. I will at least put a fancy plug on it if I can't bring myself to cut the J-cable off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 BTW - I put electrical tape over the triangle shape vents on the top. BASS BOOST!


----------



## tintheman

OK done, thanks for the recommendation, will wait to see how it is and try the magic bass boost


----------



## vapman

tintheman said:


> OK done, thanks for the recommendation, will wait to see how it is and try the magic bass boost


 
 Hope you like it. I am gonna fill it in with blu tac when I get it in. Seems to bring out  mids a bit. My only complaint on this set is a little too harshly V shaped but that simple trick evens things out a bit . And gonna put a fancy plug on it, my case of gold Neutrik REAN 3.5mm are in the mail.
  
 and one Switchcraft nickel plated for my Asura 2.0 but I may go all out and get Eidolic for it...


----------



## Fabi

K's 500 is in the house. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Will report later.


----------



## Sempenyi

anybody have link for seahf 32 ohm ? cant find them anywhere ? are they discountinued ?

  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## golov17

sempenyi said:


> anybody have link for seahf 32 ohm ? cant find them anywhere ? are they discountinued ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 2016 New Seahf 32 ohm
 http://s.aliexpress.com/AFV3uQzM


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I know a few people purchased the *Colarad C01*, though I still have not seen any
 thoughts of them pop up on this thread yet.  Colarad C01 - $11.90: http://penonaudio.com/Colarad-C01
  
 I also did not see anyone mention that they got a pair of the *HE 150ohm*, so I decided to get a set and will report on them when they arrive.  HE 150ohm - $11.90: http://penonaudio.com/HE-150ohm-HiFi-Earbud?limit=100
  
 --


----------



## BloodyPenguin

BTW, saw this randomly on Aliexpress, anyone want to take a go at it?  They cost about $19 USD. 
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-In-Ear-Earphones-Stereo-Noise-Cancelling-Ear-Buds-Diy-Mp3-Auriculares-3-5mm-Ecouteurs-Wired/32717264953.html
  

  
 --


----------



## Danneq

bloodypenguin said:


> BTW, saw this randomly on Aliexpress, anyone want to take a go at it?  They cost about $19 USD.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-In-Ear-Earphones-Stereo-Noise-Cancelling-Ear-Buds-Diy-Mp3-Auriculares-3-5mm-Ecouteurs-Wired/32717264953.html
> 
> ...


 




 Waaaay ahead of you!


http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/11565#post_12917828

http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/11745#post_12926166


 Also:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/11565#post_12917961
  


 By the way, that "splashy" sound from cymbals pretty much has gone away after 20-30 hours of use...


----------



## Willber

bloodypenguin said:


> BTW, saw this randomly on Aliexpress, anyone want to take a go at it?  They cost about $19 USD.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-In-Ear-Earphones-Stereo-Noise-Cancelling-Ear-Buds-Diy-Mp3-Auriculares-3-5mm-Ecouteurs-Wired/32717264953.html
> --


 
@Danneq has them:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/11565#post_12917828
  
 Edit: Beaten to it.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

danneq said:


> Waaaay ahead of you!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/11565#post_12917828
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ha!  Awesome, I must have missed those posts.  Thanks for the info.  They look very interesting.  

 Though I have the K's 500 and HE 150ohm on route, so I will hold off on these for right now.  
  
 --


----------



## vapman

sempenyi said:


> anybody have link for seahf 32 ohm ? cant find them anywhere ? are they discountinued ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Don't buy; it unless you want to use the (very nice) silver cable on another bud. They sound like razor blades.
  
 (My; keyboard is broken so I apologize if there are ;'s I am not catching)


----------



## fleasbaby

vapman said:


> Don't buy; it unless you want to use the (very nice) silver cable on another bud. They sound like razor blades.
> 
> (My; keyboard is broken so I apologize if there are ;'s I am not catching)


 
  
 Damn. Ordered a pair this morning. Oh well. That cable is nice. Reminds me of the original VE Zen's one...


----------



## Tympan

fleasbaby said:


> Damn. Ordered a pair this morning. Oh well. That cable is nice. Reminds me of the original VE Zen's one...


 

 The Seahf 32 Silver can be tricky at first because they are very resolving and they do exhibit a peak in the highs.
 But proper burn in and a little EQ produce wonders straight out of an iphone (shozy Cygnus league imo, not the same but as enjoyable)
  
  
  They offer really good bass (textured, articulate, bleed-free), very neutral and transparent mediums, with extended details and nice sizzling... coherent soundstage, very good instrument separation, resolution, and sense of space.
 They really makes the Monk + sound loose, wooly, and poor in comparison.
  
 They also sound great with Supermini player, great match.


----------



## fleasbaby

tympan said:


> The Seahf 32 Silver can be tricky at first because they are very resolving and they do exhibit a peak in the highs.
> But proper burn in and a little EQ produce wonders straight out of an iphone (shozy Cygnus league imo, not the same but as enjoyable)
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Good to hear. I'll give them a fair try when they come in. I like articulate as opposed to excessive bass...


----------



## Raketen

This might be totally nonsenical, but anyone with Stardust notice that exaggerated "TTTTTK" kind of sound, like kind of a vocal detail thing? Seems to be the precise frequency to make my skin crawl lol.

I thought I was warming up to new signatures but this is a really odd one to me... gonna need to give it a little while, not sure my ears will adapt this far though. h34r:


----------



## mochill

raketen said:


> This might be totally nonsenical, but anyone with Stardust notice that exaggerated "TTTTTK" kind of sound, like kind of a vocal detail thing? Seems to be the precise frequency to make my skin crawl lol.
> 
> I thought I was warming up to new signatures but this is a really odd one to me... gonna need to give it a little while, not sure my ears will adapt this far though. h34r:


How many hours of burn in do you have


----------



## Raketen

mochill said:


> How many hours of burn in do you have




Well.. about 8 hours of listening if that counts :rolleyes:
I saw your post suggesting 100, might as well try it.

Do you notice that sound character I mentioned?


----------



## mochill

Do you mean hiss in the midrange


----------



## Raketen

mochill said:


> Do you mean hiss in the midrange




that might be one way to describe it... idk that the frequency(ies) itself is in the midrange but it's definitely kind of a 'texture' to those notes, not like breathiness though, I said "TTTTK" because it's a little similar to blowing air through the teeth when making a 't' sound, or the hard stops when making a 'k' sound.


----------



## kurtextrem

raketen said:


> got me Stardust in... thanks for the heads-up @kurtextrem they probably would have sat in my box for another week or two before I checked it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You're welcome! Yeah the Yuin shell is the reason why I've settled on the Stardust. Nothing can beat its comfort


----------



## vapman

Hahaha, I was trying to find a picture of how Mr Kandela  (the Demun Cables guy)'s method for painting earbud shells. Couldn't find it, but saw he tacked the HPM 64 long ago.  
  
 Must have been just okay because everything after that is Edified based. haha!


----------



## tinkertailor

Just got **** pt15s. Boy do they stink. Way too much high end. Hopefully reshelling them helps, but i honestly doubt it

Qian 39, good base, not ultra detailed but i might say it beats the monk, will compare more later.

Boarseman mx98, amazing. The bass is just right and so is the rest. Not boomy bass, perfect.

Yuin pk2, not great full bass sound, but still something silky about sound, special place in my heart as first modern dsy bud i liked.

Faaeal 64 ohm, not into.

Yuin pk3 , similar to pk2, slightly more aggresive msybe, less silky... shockingly similar to yuin pk2.


----------



## golov17

I got new pk3, vs old pk3 very not good, bright awith small bass. ****


----------



## tinkertailor

Im not sure if mine are new or old


----------



## golov17

inscription on housing have pale paint


----------



## mochill

raketen said:


> mochill said:
> 
> 
> > Do you mean hiss in the midrange
> ...


they are very revealing ear buds


----------



## ClieOS

Just got this, the new Cozoy leather case. Look great with Stardust.


----------



## golov17

http://s.aliexpress.com/eeeY7ZrU


----------



## Ira Delphic

tinkertailor said:


> Just got **** pt15s. Boy do they stink. Way too much high end. Hopefully reshelling them helps, but i honestly doubt it
> 
> Qian 39, good base, not ultra detailed but i might say it beats the monk, will compare more later.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow, you must really hate the PT15. It should never be necessary to mess with EQ but did you try increasing the bass? I use my PT15 every day. They are like a musical magnifier. On some tracks - good recordings or not so good recording as in bad mix, I grab the PT15 to hear details. For example keyboards lost in a muddy mix. With the bass pumped up a bit they are great all rounders. My source is LG V10. I also love the Qian 39 and if anything, EQ adjust the bass a hair down. I'm intrigued about the Boarseman mx98. Do you also have the Boarseman mx98*s*? Does anyone have an opinion on the difference in sound?
  
 By the way, we all have our opinions, since we don't use measuring tools (which exist) to make quantitative comparisons among earbuds. And blind listening tests - Monk+ vs. Candy for example - never seen mentioned.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I finally got around to taking a few photos of the *MusicMaker TONEKING TY2*:
  
  
 As they burn in, I do enjoy the sound a bit more.  I would not say they are a natural tone, but they are quite clear.
  
 Bass is not as distant, though still on the light end.  Build quality is top notch on the TY2, really well put together.


----------



## Willber

bloodypenguin said:


> I finally got around to taking a few photos of the *MusicMaker TONEKING TY2*


 
  
 Nice pictures, but shouldn't that be TONEKING T*K*Y2?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

willber said:


> Nice pictures, but shouldn't that be TONEKING T*K*Y2?


 
  
 I used to think that too, but from the Official MusicMaker/Toneking page they have listed as TY2:
  
 https://world.taobao.com/item/537463815406.htm
  
 --


----------



## Willber

bloodypenguin said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Nice pictures, but shouldn't that be TONEKING T*K*Y2?
> ...


 

 As if the earbud world wasn't confusing enough already!


----------



## Fabi

clieos said:


> Just got this, the new Cozoy leather case. Look great with Stardust.


 
 It looks really great !
 Where to buy? Didn't find it anywhere...


----------



## Venture Guy

If anyone is acquiring my two week old set of Shozy Stardusts, PM me. Burned in for 50 hours, 10 hours head time. They were my intro to the world of earbuds... already upgrading. What fun


----------



## Fabi

venture guy said:


> If anyone is acquiring my two week old set of Shozy Stardusts, PM me. Burned in for 50 hours, 10 hours head time. They were my intro to the world of earbuds... already upgrading. What fun


 
 Wow, don't tell me you're upgrading to earbuds you are going to buy in California in the next coming days!


----------



## Venture Guy

fabi said:


> Wow, don't tell me you're upgrading to earbuds you are going to buy in California in the next coming days!


----------



## Fabi

Have a lot of fun my friend


----------



## vapman

Just bought a ton of 2mm and 4mm cable sleeving. Gonna try and make my recables look super nice


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> Just bought a ton of 2mm and 4mm cable sleeving. Gonna try and make my recables look super nice


 
  
 Looking forward to seeing what you can do.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ..


----------



## Danneq

venture guy said:


> If anyone is acquiring my two week old set of Shozy Stardusts, PM me. Burned in for 50 hours, 10 hours head time. They were my intro to the world of earbuds... already upgrading. What fun


 

 A toxic hobby!

 And if I wasn't completely broke until early next year I would be happy to buy your Stardust...


----------



## musicday

What is the difference between Sony E808 and E808+ earbuds?
Are they definitely better than Monk+?
I really like Sony's fit,comfort also.


----------



## vapman

musicday said:


> What is the difference between Sony E808 and E808+ earbuds?


 
 e808+ is an improved and most likely unofficial model, at least to Sony. they have a lot more bass and are otherwise generally superior than the old E808's. :2cents:
  


musicday said:


> What is the difference between Sony E808 and E808+ earbuds?
> Are they definitely better than Monk+?
> I really like Sony's fit,comfort also.


  

 That's too subjective for anyone to say but I would say they'd be better than Monk+ if the mids weren't as recessed as they are. They seem to be highly responsive to modding though.


----------



## purplesun

musicday said:


> What is the difference between Sony E808 and E808+ earbuds?
> Are they definitely better than Monk+?
> I really like Sony's fit,comfort also.



It's closest sound-alike is TY Hi-Z 32. Speaking as a non-basshead, E808+ has too much bass in some situations, like rumbling bass in action movies drowns out the dialogue. But as my daily earbud for walking around in typical city noises, the strong bass & clear mid-range works wonders in that situation. Also, just like most Sonys, it fits very well in the ear.


----------



## jant71

Anybody had the E827? Good value bud at $25/$30??
  
  
 There is an E454 on ebay. Don't see those too often.


----------



## music4mhell

venture guy said:


> If anyone is acquiring my two week old set of Shozy Stardusts, PM me. Burned in for 50 hours, 10 hours head time. They were my intro to the world of earbuds... already upgrading. What fun


 
 So which one it's ?
  
 Qfred/ campfred/ CAX ?


----------



## Spider fan

Shouldnt you wait to make sure you like your new ones better before you sell such an awesome earbud?
  
 Quote:


venture guy said:


> If anyone is acquiring my two week old set of Shozy Stardusts, PM me. Burned in for 50 hours, 10 hours head time. They were my intro to the world of earbuds... already upgrading. What fun


----------



## ClieOS

fabi said:


> It looks really great !
> Where to buy? Didn't find it anywhere...


 
  
 I only know one place on Taobao that has it. Here.


----------



## Sempenyi

[COMING SOON]

Blox B160 ~ 40 USD
Blox B320 ~ 65 USD

Just found this on my facebook. anybody have the trusted source about this ?

Edit :

dat is fast :v


----------



## vapman

sempenyi said:


> [COMING SOON]
> 
> Blox B160 ~ 40 USD
> Blox B320 ~ 65 USD
> ...


 
 Oh man! please be true!


----------



## tinkertailor

It is likely true, i got this message from Mr. Woo of Blox on Nov 11:
  
Dear Sir,
Sorry to reply you late,we did not produce the TM.7 anymore
We will launch our new model this month but still not our flagship model.
once our new models are ready you will see them available on our site.
BR,
Woo


----------



## Expansion

bloodypenguin said:


>


 
 What player is this?


----------



## haiku

Man, I´m really lucky. I seem to be the only one here, who´s satisfied with what he´s got......


----------



## Sempenyi

So that's prototype for 160 ohm & 320 ohm. No retail yet.


----------



## vapman

haiku said:


> Man, I´m really lucky. I seem to be the only one here, who´s satisfied with what he´s got......


 
 Count me in too. I can't wait to get my other Sony E808+ so I can recable some though. Man, I don't even use my K's 64 or Q39 mods anymore.... (Q39 stock or at least in stock shell is still one of my favorites)


----------



## BloodyPenguin

expansion said:


> What player is this?




Onn X5.

Good quality sound for the price, really bad UI.

..


----------



## Danneq

haiku said:


> Man, I´m really lucky. I seem to be the only one here, who´s satisfied with what he´s got......




First you have to try everything! I could be perfectly happy with just a pair of Monk+ and a pair of Tomahawk. But a part of the hobby is to find and try out new stuff.


----------



## golov17

**** really good with dark sources


----------



## haiku

danneq said:


> First you have to try everything! I could be perfectly happy with just a pair of Monk+ and a pair of Tomahawk. But a part of the hobby is to find and try out new stuff.


 

 If you could, you would be happy. Obviously, you´re not. No problem with that, I´m just saying I prefer the state of satisfaction to the chase after the (unreachable) carrot.....


----------



## listen4joy

can i get advice for good foams for monk+?


----------



## music4mhell

haiku said:


> danneq said:
> 
> 
> > First you have to try everything! I could be perfectly happy with just a pair of Monk+ and a pair of Tomahawk. But a part of the hobby is to find and try out new stuff.
> ...


 
 So which are your new earbuds ?
 You always come up with some new earbuds !


----------



## golov17

haiku said:


> If you could, you would be happy. Obviously, you´re not. No problem with that, I´m just saying I prefer the state of satisfaction to the chase after the (unreachable) carrot.....


 you have only one shirt? or one pair of shoes ?? lol


----------



## Danneq

haiku said:


> If you could, you would be happy. Obviously, you´re not. No problem with that, I´m just saying I prefer the state of satisfaction to the chase after the (unreachable) carrot.....




It's a part of the hobby. I've got over 500 CDs and over 700 DVDs/Blu Rays. I could be happy with just 10 CDs and 10 movies. But I love discovering new stuff (I do sell movies but not my CDs).

I'm 100% certain I'll never find a better sounding earbud than CAX black. But other earbuds give different flavors. You get bored of gourmet food if you eat it every day. Sometimes a simple burger can make a very nice change.

At least I stay away from the hi res DAP hype. A rockboxed Clip+ is quite close to $500+ DAPs in sound quality so I'd rather spend money on earbuds which makes a bigger difference to the sound...


----------



## golov17

or otherwise, ClieOS is the most unhappy man, heh


----------



## haiku

golov17 said:


> or otherwise, ClieOS is the most unhappy man, heh


 

 It´s rather like this for me. Even though I see the difference between SD and HD Movie quality, watching a HD Movie doesn´t give me more satisfaction than a SD Movie. Same with 16/44.1 and High Res files. Same with AK300 and AK380. Same with EO320 and other stuff I´ve heard. Simply put, I´ve noticed a threshold, beyond which there´s no "wow factor" for me anymore.


----------



## golov17

haiku said:


> It´s rather like this for me. Even though I see the difference between SD and HD Movie quality, watching a HD Movie doesn´t give me more satisfaction than a SD Movie. Same with 16/44.1 and High Res files. Same with AK300 and AK380. Same with EO320 and other stuff I´ve heard. Simply put, I´ve noticed a threshold, beyond which there´s no "wow factor" for me anymore.


i see


----------



## vapman

Just noticed the two new Bloxes aren't the flagship yet. bah, will keep waiting


----------



## Frederick Wang

quote Danneq:
At least I stay away from the hi res DAP hype. A rockboxed Clip+ is quite close to $500+ DAPs in sound quality so I'd rather spend money on earbuds which makes a bigger difference to the sound...
unquote 

maybe thats true, I bought a 1000 dollar hm901u with balanced card once only to find it produce poor clarity...
But u perhaps want try zishan dsd player, "only" 100 dollar and it definitely makes a difference to my ears.

back to topic, ordered e808+, qian39 and she3800 and perhaps a few more budget earbuds in the days to come to compare. decideded to change my consecutive earbud monogamy strategy


----------



## vapman

frederick wang said:


> maybe thats true, I bought a 1000 dollar hm901u with balanced card once only to find it produce poor clarity...
> But u perhaps want try zishan dsd player, "only" 100 dollar and it definitely makes a difference to my ears.
> 
> back to topic, ordered* e808+, qian39 and she3800* and perhaps a few more budget eaebuds in the days to come to compare. decideded to change my consecutive earbud monogamy stategy


 
 i thought "Wow, those are my 3 favorite buds!" and none of them costs more than 6 dollars a piece. Ridiculous.
  
 (Actually Asura 2.0 is my favorite for the time being, but I am going to give it a fancy recable soon)


----------



## Frederick Wang

When I first got into this hobby I believed price bespeaks quality, but ATH W5000, HM901, VE monk, Zishan DSD changed my opinion. It is ridiculous


----------



## vapman

frederick wang said:


> When I first got into this hobby I believed price bespeaks quality, but ATH W5000, HM901, VE monk, Zishan DSD changed my opinion. It is ridiculous


 
 Still debating if I should get Zishan DSD or not. But I can see that you like it. So many options for it, though......


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Still debating if I should get Zishan DSD or not. But I can see that you like it. So many options for it, though......


same


----------



## magitka27

vapman said:


> i thought "Wow, those are my 3 favorite buds!" and none of them costs more than 6 dollars a piece. Ridiculous.
> 
> (Actually *Asura 2.0* is my favorite for the time being, but I am going to give it a fancy recable soon)


 
 I'm loving the asura 2.0 too ,  do you still have the ty 650 vapman??


----------



## vapman

magitka27 said:


> I'm loving the asura 2.0 too ,  do you still have the ty 650 vapman??


 
 Yes of course! Although now I really only use them when I need accuracy & neutrality or just want the best detailing I can get. But it's not and hasn't been a daily bud for a long time. I only use it with rubber rings now as i  think they sound best without foams.


----------



## AT Khan

golov17 said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > Still debating if I should get Zishan DSD or not. But I can see that you like it. So many options for it, though......
> ...


 

 I don't know about you guys, but I grabbed the Hidizs AP100 @ $180 eventually as my first dedicated DAP in decades... Been using my phone all this time. The Hidizs sold itself to me more than the fiiO X5.
 Let's hope and wait now.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> Still debating if I should get Zishan DSD or not. But I can see that you like it. So many options for it, though......


 
  
  


frederick wang said:


> When I first got into this hobby I believed price bespeaks quality, but ATH W5000, HM901, VE monk, Zishan DSD changed my opinion. It is ridiculous


 
 Sorry for once again highjacking this thread, but may I kindly know which Zhisan you guys are using or planning to buy?

 I am planning to buy it next year as an upgrade to the X3.

 Option A)
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z02.1.2016030118.d2016038.qqX27n&id=541533772614&scm=1007.10157.32217.100200300000000&pvid=c6c94d71-8a60-47be-8ddf-9eba71a429e9
  
 Option B)
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=2013.1.20141001.1.LP0hAD&id=528200190230&scm=1007.10115.53307.100200300000000&pvid=e8f0ccf7-3cb3-48b4-8306-8e9b246ea56e&idnum=0
  
 Option C) (not Zhisan but still.....)
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z02.1.2016030118.d2016038.qqX27n&id=521255921898&scm=1007.10157.32217.100200300000000&pvid=c6c94d71-8a60-47be-8ddf-9eba71a429e9
  
 I just hope that they have low noise floor


----------



## Majin

frederick wang said:


> quote Danneq:
> At least I stay away from the hi res DAP hype. A rockboxed Clip+ is quite close to $500+ DAPs in sound quality so I'd rather spend money on earbuds which makes a bigger difference to the sound...
> unquote
> 
> ...


 
 you bought the e808+ and qian39 from aliexpress and she38000 from fasttech? I also want to buy those 3 earbuds


----------



## Majin

Is there a good sounding earbud with mic controls?
  
 besides the piston and earpods


----------



## music4mhell

majin said:


> Is there a good sounding earbud with mic controls?


 
 Monk+ with Mic, TP16 with Mic.. 1More EO303/EO320 !


----------



## haiku

eo1008


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> or otherwise, ClieOS is the most unhappy man, heh


 
  
 I don't chase any headphone for awhile now. I get new earbud purely for collecting (*thus I don't sell anything) and the fun of discovery (*thus I still buy cheap entry stuffs), not for upgrading. Like @Danneq, I can be happy with something like earpod if the goal is just to enjoy the music. Good headphone makes music more enjoyable, but good music doesn't need good headphone to be enjoyable.


----------



## Willber

music4mhell said:


> majin said:
> 
> 
> > Is there a good sounding earbud with mic controls?
> ...


 
 I think the EO320 is very good but reports of the EO303 are not favourable.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> I don't chase any headphone for awhile now. I get new earbud purely for collecting (*thus I don't sell anything) and the fun of discovery (*thus I still buy cheap entry stuffs), not for upgrading. Like @Danneq, I can be happy with something like earpod if the goal is just to enjoy the music. Good headphone makes music more enjoyable, but good music doesn't need good headphone to be enjoyable.


fully agreed


----------



## musicday

E808 is on eBay but cannot find the e808+.
Any Tera Player owner here?
Looking for the beat earbud,at the moment using Monk+.
Maybe Zen V2.0 back?


----------



## Willber

musicday said:


> E808 is on eBay but cannot find the e808+.


 
  
 I ordered mine from here:
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/8515788676.html?orderId=80680951508136&productId=32742308384


----------



## Danneq

musicday said:


> E808 is on eBay but cannot find the e808+.
> Any Tera Player owner here?
> Looking for the beat earbud,at the moment using Monk+.
> Maybe Zen V2.0 back?




Cypherus CAX black edition


----------



## Frederick Wang

to @AudioNewbi3 
I had option 2) and just sent back for PSU & #5 upgrade

to @Majin
I bought from Taobao, 3 different sellers, a little bit hustle but works for me.


----------



## Frederick Wang

never had anything with mic, but I know TP16, SHE3800, Monk+ and LingSi X35 has mic option, they are generally loved by their owners.


----------



## Majin

frederick wang said:


> never had anything with mic, but I know TP16, SHE3800, Monk+ and LingSi X35 has mic option, they are generally loved by their owners.


 
  
 For now the cheapest option is the monk+ which is gonna be on my list after my dispute is finished for my other earphones.


----------



## Frederick Wang

the cheapest would be SHE3800, currently 3 dollar at Taobao, dont know how much they are priced at aliexpress, though


----------



## Majin

frederick wang said:


> the cheapest would be SHE3800, currently 3 dollar at Taobao, dont know how much they are priced at aliexpress, though


 
  
 with a mic?


----------



## Frederick Wang

yes


----------



## Majin

I can't find them anywhere so i will look for an alternative


----------



## fleasbaby

willber said:


> I ordered mine from here:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/8515788676.html?orderId=80680951508136&productId=32742308384


 
  
 "page not found"
  
 ?


----------



## Willber

fleasbaby said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > I ordered mine from here:
> ...


 
  
 Try this one:
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-MDR-E808-Bass-Noise-Isolating-Earphone-3-5MM-High-Qaulity-Flat-Head-Earbuds-In-Ear/32742308384.html


----------



## fleasbaby

vapman said:


> i thought "Wow, those are my 3 favorite buds!" and none of them costs more than 6 dollars a piece. Ridiculous.
> 
> (Actually Asura 2.0 is my favorite for the time being, but I am going to give it a fancy recable soon)


 
  
  


magitka27 said:


> I'm loving the asura 2.0 too ,  do you still have the ty 650 vapman??


 
  
 Have either of you done the unthinkable and tried the Asura 2.0 straight from an iPhone 5? Shockingly good, especially considering the 150 ohm impedance. I prefer it to using my usual source (an old iPod Touch and a FiiO E12).
  


willber said:


> Try this one:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-MDR-E808-Bass-Noise-Isolating-Earphone-3-5MM-High-Qaulity-Flat-Head-Earbuds-In-Ear/32742308384.html


 
  
 Thanks


----------



## Ira Delphic

MDR-E808+ sold out on Ali


----------



## golov17

majin said:


> I can't find them anywhere so i will look for an alternative


 http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=4057


----------



## Willber

> MDR-E808+ sold out on Ali


 
 It says '489 pieces available' on the link I posted.


----------



## Ira Delphic

willber said:


> > MDR-E808+ sold out on Ali
> 
> 
> 
> It says '489 pieces available' on the link I posted.


 
  
I tried that link - "This product is sold out or the seller discontinued selling this product."


----------



## Willber

ira delphic said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > > MDR-E808+ sold out on Ali
> ...


 
 Strange - I've just used it to order another pair (well, why not! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and it worked fine.


----------



## Ira Delphic

willber said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > willber said:
> ...


 
  
 Try adding it to cart.


----------



## golov17

ira delphic said:


> MDR-E808+ sold out on Ali :confused_face:




http://s.aliexpress.com/zmQveqm6


----------



## Willber

ira delphic said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > ira delphic said:
> ...


 
 I did, and bought them, and received the 'Payment successfully made' email.


----------



## zedbg

Just ordered them few minutes ago


----------



## Majin

golov17 said:


> http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=4057


 
  
 Thanks i did find the same website but for that price i will try the non-mic version first.


----------



## Ira Delphic

I used a different browser and was able to order MDR-E808+. Thanks!


----------



## Willber

ira delphic said:


> I used a different browser and was able to order MDR-E808+. Thanks!


 

 Good news.
 I now have two on the way thanks to your browser issues!


----------



## Majin

Ordered myself the SHE3800 from fasttech cause they were only $3  Hope they are better than the monk plus.
  
  
 Did anybody try this one?
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-High-Quality-Fashion-Design-Headphones-Earphone-Headset-Mic-with-Remote-for-all-mobile-phone/32616955158.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.1.3fQoZs&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10065_10068_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_9999_10061_10062_10056_10055_10037_10054_10033_10059_10032_10099_10078_10079_10077_426_10073_10102_10096_10052_425_10050_10051-10052_9999_10033_10077,searchweb201603_2&btsid=0cab65a1-16b5-4144-a9d7-47291ab69093


----------



## Ira Delphic

willber said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > I used a different browser and was able to order MDR-E808+. Thanks!
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the encouragement - I was going to give up! I'm a sucker for a budget earbud.


----------



## Willber

ira delphic said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > ira delphic said:
> ...


 

 Me too, and it makes sense to get spares at those prices.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Ha! I just ordered:

- Boarseman MX98s
- QianYun Qian39
- K's 64 ohm
- MDR-E808+

Add that to the K's 500 Balanced and HE 150 earbuds already on their way.

Someone please knock me out and take my wallet.

--


----------



## Frederick Wang

bloodypenguin said:


> Ha! I just ordered:
> 
> - Boarseman MX98s
> - QianYun Qian39
> ...


 
 I think those earbud sellers just did


----------



## Frederick Wang

On top of the 3 pairs I already bought, ordered 4 more pairs, I will call it a day...


----------



## fleasbaby

bloodypenguin said:


> Ha! I just ordered:
> 
> - Boarseman MX98s
> - QianYun Qian39
> ...


 
  
 LMAO. 
  
 If its any consolation, my K's 64 arrived yesterday, and I like them. Only downside, a lot of the foams that came with them were damaged. I am waiting on some MDR-E808+, SeaHF 32 and some Ty Hi-Z 32. 
  
 I think you'll like the Quian39.


----------



## Danneq

bloodypenguin said:


> Ha! I just ordered:
> 
> - Boarseman MX98s
> - QianYun Qian39
> ...


 
  
  


frederick wang said:


> On top of the 3 pairs I already bought, ordered 4 more pairs, I will call it a day...


 



 I've got a whole bunch of earbuds incoming. About 1,5 month ago I bought Music Maker TY2, **** PT15 & Qian39 on Ali express. It has FINALLY reached Sweden.

 Also have got a pair of second hand Red Demun on the way to me.

 Plus the TY HiZ HP650 I bought on 11.11.

 About 2 weeks ago I got the Erqu EQ100 and "Dark Horse ES-E2" that I bought from Taobao. Plus a pair of Music Maker TP16 from Ali Express.

 However, after I have received the Cypherus earbuds everything else sounds "meh" at best.

 I'm already listing the Erqu and "Dark Horse". Will do the same with TP16 (I prefer Tomahawk by far). K500 might be listed as well.
 I've got a bad feeling about PT15 already now because of the reports of piercing highs.

 I worry that the Cypherus earbuds might take away the fun in being an earbud hunter. Most earbuds sound artificial and unbalanced compared to the supremly analogue sounding Cypherus earbuds. If I had gotten the Cypherus earbuds earlier I would probably have skipped most of my latest purchases except for Red Demun and HP650...


----------



## haiku

danneq said:


> However, after I have received the Cypherus earbuds everything else sounds "meh" at best.
> 
> 
> 
> I worry that the Cypherus earbuds might take away the fun in being an earbud hunter. *Most earbuds sound artificial and unbalanced* compared to the supremly analogue sounding Cypherus earbuds. If I had gotten the Cypherus earbuds earlier I would probably have skipped most of my latest purchases except for Red Demun and HP650...


 
 Exactly how I felt after I´ve received my EO320. Spot on, Danneq.


----------



## vapman

I'm starting to regret mentioning the E808+ here.


----------



## Danneq

haiku said:


> Exactly how I felt after I´ve received my EO320. Spot on, Danneq.


 


 But I don't want to feel like that!   T_T

 I might get EO320 also even if I don't like TRRS buds for cell phones. Then of course Shozy Stardust in January. I've got the feeling that I'll sell at least 10 pairs of earbuds in the coming months...


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> I'm starting to regret mentioning the E808+ here.


Ohh, nooo  all right bro


----------



## Venture Guy

Semi-custom earbud? An Interesting Kickstarter came across my screen: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1114111331/helloear-arc-the-worlds-most-comfortable-custom-ea/description
  
 The technology seems solid. It could be a real game changer that solves those nasty fit problems we all experience. I'm in


----------



## Townyj

venture guy said:


> Semi-custom earbud? An Interesting Kickstarter came across my screen: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1114111331/helloear-arc-the-worlds-most-comfortable-custom-ea/description
> 
> The technology seems solid. It could be a real game changer that solves those nasty fit problems we all experience. I'm in


 
  
 Its a BA driver design.. :/


----------



## Danneq

Just noticed that we're on page (MX) 985!


----------



## JASru

townyj said:


> Its a BA driver design.. :/


 Its really funny how they show people sweat with BA iem in their ears. Well done! Hope they enjoy replacing it


----------



## BloodyPenguin

So I know we have this great thread to discuss earbuds, but I decided to start an Earbud Facebook Group.
  
 It is just another form factor for us to all share our love for earbuds.  Please feel free to join (invite friends) and share anything about earbuds you wish.  News, Questions, Photos and General Discussion.

 I just set up the Page, so it is a work in progress, I am open up to suggestion on how to improve it.
  
 https://www.facebook.com/groups/EarbudsAnonymous/
  

  
 --


----------



## vapman

jasru said:


> Its really funny how they show people sweat with BA iem in their ears. Well done! Hope they enjoy replacing it


 
 Yeah I quit BA's before I quit IEM's altogether. They always were strange sounding to me and i'm not a treblehead so they were never what I needed in my IEMs. I will refrain from bringing up what IEMs they were here. 
  
 If I lose my hearing fast enough I guess I might end up being a treblehead some day and then all the super bright V shaped sets will be like heaven to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
@BloodyPenguin Thank you for taking the initiative to finally make an english language Earbud group. I still don't use Facebook but if I ever do I'll join that group. I do appreciate what you're doing though!


----------



## JASru

What I meant is that BA driver is very vulnerable to corrosion. Even the prolonged humidity may kill it. The drops of sweat are sure-killers.

Edit- By prolonged I mean not a day or two, it takes longer to ruin BA.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> @BloodyPenguin Thank you for taking the initiative to finally make an English language Earbud group. I still don't use Facebook but if I ever do I'll join that group. I do appreciate what you're doing though!


 
  
 Yes, this was the biggest reason I wanted to start one.  I love pages like "*Earbud Lover Indonesia*", but unfortunately I do not understand half of the posts.

 I also figured the page could be a easier way to gain quick access to earbuds and even help with some trades and sales.  
  
 --


----------



## pack21

Could anyone point me to the main differences in sound between the PT15, Qian39, E808+ and SHE3800?


----------



## Ira Delphic

venture guy said:


> Semi-custom earbud? An Interesting Kickstarter came across my screen: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1114111331/helloear-arc-the-worlds-most-comfortable-custom-ea/description
> 
> The technology seems solid. It could be a real game changer that solves those nasty fit problems we all experience. I'm in


 
  
 More like an external fit IEM. The nice thing about earbuds is the huge real estate that allows for a big, flat dynamic driver. I'd like the concept with a different driver. I've thought of this idea before - custom shell earbud that fits contours of the ear. I'm sure all of us have. Right now the Qian39 has the best fit of any earbud due to small size.


----------



## Danneq

Dunu Alpha 1 is a wonderful idea, though. I really like the sound which is a mix of dynamic and BA drivers. But fit is horrible. I was going to sell my Aplha 1 because of the poor fit but since no one was interested I have decided to give them one more chance.

 Other than that, dynamic drivers is where all the fun is!


----------



## vapman

pack21 said:


> Could anyone point me to the main differences in sound between the PT15, Qian39, E808+ and SHE3800?


 
 Wow, that's a pretty diverse bunch to compare......
  
 PT15 is the brightest followed by SHE3800 then e808+ then q39.
  
 For mids, she3800, then either pt15 or q39, but e808+ is very scooped.
  
 for bass, probably qian39 and e808 on top, then she3800, then pt15


----------



## Ira Delphic

vapman said:


> pack21 said:
> 
> 
> > Could anyone point me to the main differences in sound between the PT15, Qian39, E808+ and SHE3800?
> ...


 
  
 I'll add that among PT15, QIan39 and SHE3800, the PT15 has the best resolution - important for critical listening.  For my ears the PT15 fit comes in last.


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> I worry that the Cypherus earbuds might take away the fun in being an earbud hunter. Most earbuds sound artificial and unbalanced compared to the supremly analogue sounding Cypherus earbuds. If I had gotten the Cypherus earbuds earlier I would probably have skipped most of my latest purchases except for Red Demun and HP650...


 
  
 This is just that we slowly one by one find our perfect earbuds. And if we find that one we loose interest in other earbuds (and maybe even we become less active here in this thread because the hunt is over). "You cross the door - there's no coming back". That happened to you when you found your CAX, it happened to me when I found my Red De'mun, it happened to AudioNewbi3 when he found his Mojito, it happend to music4mhell when he found his Zen 2.0 Black, it happened to haiku when he found his EO320, it happened to Tayyab Pirzada when he found his Cygnus and so the story goes. We all found our perfect earbuds. Others are still searching - good luck to you! I am not saying I will stop trying new earbuds but I am slowing down, yeah, I am slowing down and I am much more picky now.


----------



## mochill

musicday said:


> E808 is on eBay but cannot find the e808+.
> Any Tera Player owner here?
> Looking for the beat earbud,at the moment using Monk+.
> Maybe Zen V2.0 back?


zen 2 black edition


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> This is just that we slowly one by one find our perfect earbuds. And if we find that one we loose interest in other earbuds (and maybe even we become less active here in this thread because the hunt is over). "You cross the door - there's no coming back". That happened to you when you found your CAX, it happened to me when I found my Red De'mun, it happened to AudioNewbi3 when he found his Mojito, it happend to music4mhell when he found his Zen 2.0 Black, it happened to haiku when he found his EO320, it happened to Tayyab Pirzada when he found his Cygnus and so the story goes. We all found our perfect earbuds. Others are still searching - good luck to you! I am not saying I will stop trying new earbuds but I am slowing down, yeah, I am slowing down and I am much more picky now.




You are correct. But just a few weeks ago I would have been surprised that anything could beat Blox TM7. Then two earbuds in the same shipment did just that. I want to hear EVERYTHING before I can say with certainty what I like and what I don't like, but it's much more difficult now than 2-3 years ago when there were only a few Hisoundaudio, Dasetn and Tingo earbuds available outside of more established brands...

By the way, it's amazing that you remember people's favorite earbuds! Trick question: which one is golov17's?


----------



## listen4joy

Danneq, are BLACK CAX on the same level of iems in the same price range?


----------



## pack21

vapman said:


> Wow, that's a pretty diverse bunch to compare......
> 
> PT15 is the brightest followed by SHE3800 then e808+ then q39.
> 
> ...




Thanks, yeah i have some of those coming in next days.


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> By the way, it's amazing that you remember people's favorite earbuds! Trick question: which one is golov17's?


 
 "All my children"... but my guess is that Oleg's fav is Zen 2.0 in fact.


----------



## purplesun

The el cheapo "Sony" hype train has picked up some steam in past day or so 

IMHO, E808+ is not suitable for critical listening as it has at least 2 big dips in the FR. Around upper-bass; sacrificing timbre for clarity. And around lower-treble to reduce sibilance. Except for booming lower/mid-bass and less refined treble, it's almost a clone of Sony's MDR-E888 sound which I love.

For weeks now, the E808+ has been my main walk-around earbud; as it sits comfortably in my ear (unlike MX500-shelled earbuds) and I don't lose the music when outside noise intrudes With acoustic bass music (non-basshead here), the bass & clarity of E808+ is just about right for me out of the house.


----------



## vapman

@Tomasz2D I had the Zen 2 and Mojito and sold both so I wouldn't want to stop collecting. haha. although even if i had kept them, at this point, i'd be more impressed with other stuff. I guess I'm also in team "all my children"... except for the ones I banish and give away...


----------



## Danneq

listen4joy said:


> Danneq
> , are BLACK CAX on the same level of iems in the same price range?




Sorry, I don't listen to IEMs. CAX black is almost as full sounding as my ATH ES10. Less bassy but better soundstage and detail.


----------



## musicday

venture guy said:


> Semi-custom earbud? An Interesting Kickstarter came across my screen: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1114111331/helloear-arc-the-worlds-most-comfortable-custom-ea/description
> 
> The technology seems solid. It could be a real game changer that solves those nasty fit problems we all experience. I'm in



The comfort is only inside and not outside.Looks like they stick out and you cannot lie comfortable your head on the pillow with them in.I will pass.


----------



## vapman

Yeah..... they look more like mini custom iems than earbuds to be honest..


----------



## musicday

Ca





mochill said:


> musicday said:
> 
> 
> > E808 is on eBay but cannot find the e808+.
> ...



Can you tell me more about it?
You heard Zen 2 black with the Tera Player?
Thank you.


----------



## mochill

No Tera player, but zen 2 black edition is very dynamic and natural with fullness and smoothness that we all crave while listening to music


----------



## Sempenyi

danneq said:


> Sorry, I don't listen to IEMs. CAX black is almost as full sounding as my ATH ES10. Less bassy but better soundstage and detail.


 
 so what is your updated earbud rank now ?


----------



## mochill

http://penonaudio.com/COZOY-LX


----------



## magitka27

vapman said:


> Yes of course! Although now I really only use them when I need accuracy & neutrality or just want the best detailing I can get. But it's not and hasn't been a daily bud for a long time. I only use it with rubber rings now as i  think they sound best without foams.



Are you referring into asura 2.0? If yes i agree with you, they sound good as it is, without foams 



fleasbaby said:


> Have either of you done the unthinkable and tried the Asura 2.0 straight from an iPhone 5? Shockingly good, especially considering the 150 ohm impedance. I prefer it to using my usual source (an old iPod Touch and a FiiO E12).




I would like to try that but unfortunately i dont have any iphone atm xD , just listening some youtube from samsung galaxy j5 and it sounds better on my fiio x5ii hehe  do you connect the fiio e12 via LOD into your ipod mate? 



I wanted to try rose earbuds like masya, is that sounds good?


----------



## vapman

magitka27 said:


> Are you referring into asura 2.0? If yes i agree with you, they sound good as it is, without foams
> I would like to try that but ?




I was actually talking about ty 650. I use asura 2.0 with hiegi donut for better bass


----------



## Danneq

sempenyi said:


> so what is your updated earbud rank now ?




Now I have it in my profile. I copied it from there:




> Top 10 earbuds I currently own (list can be changed at any time):
> 1. Cypherus CAX Black Edition
> 2. ----
> 3. Cypherus CampFred
> ...




After I sell an earbud I remove it from the list.

Mojito was no 5 when I sold it. I think Cygnus was no 7 or 8. Zen 2 never made it onto the list.


----------



## music4mhell

A little off topic .. !!
  
 But can any1 please tell me what's so special about this Tera player ?


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> A little off topic .. !!
> 
> But can any1 please tell me what's so special about this Tera player ?


 
 It seems to be impossible to find exactly what DAC it uses but it is like a very fancy iPod Shuffle that can only play WAV. and it supposedly sounds amazing. It seems like a more polished version of the Walnut v2 i am waiting to receive...
  
(It's a $6 TI in the Tera 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
  
  
  
  
 Oh yeah, I was gonna ask, does anyone here have a PT15 and hate it? I want to try and fit it into a Yuin style shell...


----------



## ClieOS

music4mhell said:


> A little off topic .. !!
> 
> But can any1 please tell me what's so special about this Tera player ?


 
  
 I would think it is the maker's arrogance that is the only special thing about Tera Player. I demo'ed one a couple of years ago - it sounds nice, with the particular 'analog' tonal quality that is specific to R2R DAC making it more of less sounded more euphonic than the typical delta-sigma DAC. But beyond that, it is just okay technically. If you really want to hear the full potential of a R2R DAC on a portable player, I still think HM801 is the better choice.


----------



## Pasopati

clieos said:


> I would think it is the maker's arrogance that is the only special thing about Tera Player. I demo'ed one a couple of years ago - it sounds nice, with the particular 'analog' tonal quality that is specific to R2R DAC making it more of less sounded more euphonic than the typical delta-sigma DAC. But beyond that, it is just okay technically. If you really want to hear the full potential of a R2R DAC on a portable player, I still think HM801 is the better choice.




Amen..

Nothing special about this player


----------



## Raketen

never heard one but i'm a fan of the size and the esoteric pricing :veryevil:... the page about the prototype is cool, not many manufacturers take the time to write about their selection of parts and stuff http://www.altmann.haan.de/tera_player/


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> "All my children"... but my guess is that Oleg's fav is Zen 2.0 in fact.


----------



## JASru

Recently I finally got an amp (well, I got two 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and now I clearly see why RX-1 is where it is in the list.
 Given proper amplification they sound so waaay above their price.


----------



## luedriver

just got the two QianYun in the mail, the Qian25 and the Qian39...
  
 for a moment of confusion, I had forgotten that I ordered both and thought that the seller had sent me two of the same earbud and that I had to send one back, both came in a shiny metallic box and both had the same seller, I was almost afraid to open them
  
 I like them both, but liked the Qian25 a bit more than the Qian39, both of them are burning in for 24 hours
  
 on other news, I received a message saying my cygnus are repaired and ready to be shipped back to me, maybe they will be here before Christmas, hopefully, I kinda miss them


----------



## musicday

music4mhell said:


> A little off topic .. !!
> 
> But can any1 please tell me what's so special about this Tera player ?



Feel free to PM, i am a very happy owner and had the Tera Player for nearly 4 years now.I can answer all your questions.


----------



## Tomasz2D

jasru said:


> Recently I finally got an amp (well, I got two
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Now imagine RX-1 is $100 earbud. Or even better, let's make it $200 earbud. Giving its luxurious natural wood packaging and all metal build it could be acceptable. Wouldn't people be more eager to praise it for its reference, hi-fi, hi-res sound?


----------



## JASru

tomasz2d said:


> Now imagine RX-1 is $100 earbud. Or even better, let's make it $200 earbud. Giving its luxurious natural wood packaging and all metal build it could be acceptable. Wouldn't people be more eager to praise it for its reference, hi-fi, hi-res sound?


 
 This may be the case for some people, but I have no obligation or will to praise something I spent money on.
 Giving RX-1 a better package won't give it much, the packageis already decent.
  
 However I keep seeing people on the street with countless Beats and I fail to understand how they can be praised, so I may be not very objective.


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> Now imagine RX-1 is $100 earbud. Or even better, let's make it $200 earbud. Giving its luxurious natural wood packaging and all metal build it could be acceptable. Wouldn't people be more eager to praise it for its reference, hi-fi, hi-res sound?




For me it would be another Celsus Gramo One. But I admit I would give it much more time before selling it...


----------



## Moscow

What is Ting and Tomahawk sound difference?

отправлено с Nokia 3310


----------



## Danneq

moscow said:


> What is Ting and Tomahawk sound difference?
> 
> отправлено с Nokia 3310


 



 This is a good comparison (that includes TY2):
  


> Originally Posted by *BloodyPenguin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Ting - Controlled, smooth and accurate.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Ting sounds more "distant", like you are a few rows back in the concert hall.

 Tomahawk is more up front, like you are right in front of the stage (or even on it!).


----------



## Moscow

TY 2 is on the way, but I need to give a try to Ting or Tomahawk
I've noticed on AliExpress Ting looks different. Here:
AK Original MusicMaker green Ting In Ear Earphone TONEKING Alloy Tune Earbuds Flat Head Plug Hifi Sport Dynamic In Ear Headset
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/32720299697/32720299697.html 

And here:

2016 MrZ Tomahawk MusicMaker Z In Ear Earbuds With MusicMaker Ting In Ear Earphone Alloy Tune Earbuds Armature Earphone MX985
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/32636595516/32636595516.html


----------



## fleasbaby

magitka27 said:


> Are you referring into asura 2.0? If yes i agree with you, they sound good as it is, without foams
> I would like to try that but unfortunately i dont have any iphone atm xD , just listening some youtube from samsung galaxy j5 and it sounds better on my fiio x5ii hehe
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 See what I mean? They did something weird there, and that Asura 2.0 sounds freaking great with a mobile device. Odd....would love to know what they did.
  
 Anyway, yes, I use an LOD to connect the Touch to the E12.


----------



## Moscow

What you guys can recommend to try out with a budget up to $120?
Made some blind purchases on 11.11 to check what is on market since I guit portable audio listening few yrs ago.
I already own pk2 and pk3 and waiting for Auglamour rx-1, Qian39, Moondrop VX Pro, TKY2 and a down coat... Ups, it's winter time here. 
Various music but nothing heavy so looking for some universal earbuds with detailed stage and as it was mentioned above I don't really like to be right in between of conductor and a violon.
Android cellphone+external DAC or Hidiz AP100.


----------



## golov17

It depends on the musical preferences


moscow said:


> What you guys can recommend to try out with a budget up to $120?
> Made some blind purchases on 11.11 to check what is on market since I guit portable audio listening few yrs ago.
> I already own pk2 and pk3 and waiting for Auglamour rx-1, Qian39, Moondrop VX Pro, TKY2 and a down coat... Ups, it's winter time here.
> Various music but nothing heavy so looking for some universal earbuds with detailed stage and as it was mentioned above I don't really like to be right in between of conductor and a violon.
> Android cellphone+external DAC or Hidiz AP100.


----------



## Moscow

golov17 said:


> It depends on the musical preferences




Though I already put them on a list:
Various music but nothing heavy so looking for some universal earbuds with detailed stage and as it was mentioned above I don't really like to be right in between of conductor and a violon.


----------



## Ira Delphic

moscow said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > It depends on the musical preferences
> ...


 
  
 You wrote "and waiting for Auglamour rx-1, Qian39, Moondrop VX Pro, TKY2 and a down coat..."
 There are some good earbuds on the way to you. Hold off before getting more. For a down coat I like North Face but not sure if it's any better than similar priced non designer name down jacket


----------



## mochill

moscow said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > It depends on the musical preferences
> ...


asura 2.0, Cygnus


----------



## Moscow

ira delphic said:


> You wrote "and waiting for Auglamour rx-1, Qian39, Moondrop VX Pro, TKY2 and a down coat..."
> There are some good earbuds on the way to you. Hold off before getting more. For a down coat I like North Face but not sure if it's any better than similar priced non designer name down jacket :tongue_smile:




Not sure I'll keep budget for earbuds after xmas...
Down coat was less than $50, no name but warm enough and extra long.


----------



## golov17

moscow said:


> Though I already put them on a list:
> Various music but nothing heavy so looking for some universal earbuds with detailed stage and as it was mentioned above I don't really like to be right in between of conductor and a violon.


 maybe tried some new?


----------



## Moscow

Didn't try old ones yet and don't have enough experience. Something reliable.


----------



## golov17

moscow said:


> Didn't try old ones yet and don't have enough experience. Something reliable.


Asura, Cygnus, kc08, maybe


----------



## mochill

golov17 said:


> moscow said:
> 
> 
> > Though I already put them on a list:
> ...


you ordered them


----------



## golov17

mochill said:


> you ordered them


not yet


----------



## mochill

Oh


----------



## Fabi

golov17 said:


> not yet



Very soon?


----------



## pack21

I received PT15 today, and they are not bad for the price, lot of definition for an earbuds. Too bad I had bad fit on the left ear with the MX985 and also PT15, heavier earbuds. 

How do you wear earbuds, stuck in your ear or just hanging on ear?


mm


----------



## golov17

Go to copper cable with them


----------



## Expansion

I've listened to a pair of Sony MDR-1AB, and I was impressed how natural do SHE3800 sound compared to the Sony's.
 The Sony's have peak in the mid-high zone, they don't sound natural, especially the voices are not ok.
  
 Now I'm wondering myself, if SHE3800 does sound so good, how do Tier 1 earbuds sound?
 Any recommendations? I want to be amazed one more time.


----------



## vapman

expansion said:


> I've listened to a pair of Sony MDR-1AB, and I was impressed how natural do SHE3800 sound compared to the Sony's.
> The Sony's have peak in the mid-high zone, they don't sound natural, especially the voices are not ok.
> 
> Now I'm wondering myself, if SHE3800 does sound so good, how do Tier 1 earbuds sound?
> Any recommendations? I want to be amazed one more time.


 
 I don't know 1AB but most Sony I know have more natural sound than most earbuds, Monk aside. Most Sony earbuds I know don't have a mid high peak, it's actually a bit pulled back to not cause sibilance... but the SHE3800 is kind of  a sibilant/hissy bud too.
  
 Tier 1 and even 2 and 3 make the SHE 3800 sound like trash from the garbage.


----------



## boblauer

moscow said:


> TY 2 is on the way, but I need to give a try to Ting or Tomahawk
> I've noticed on AliExpress Ting looks different. Here:
> AK Original MusicMaker green Ting In Ear Earphone TONEKING Alloy Tune Earbuds Flat Head Plug Hifi Sport Dynamic In Ear Headset
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/32720299697/32720299697.html
> ...


 
 The green Ting is kind of a cross between the Tomahawk and the All Metal Ting; the second one is the true Ting. I own the Green and while it's a nice fairly neutral SQ with decent depth and sound stage it is not the same as the All Metal Ting which is more precise and more depth and height to the sound stage. I've only heard the Ting briefly, maybe 30 minutes, but it had a couple hundred hours on it and the difference was very apparent(my green has probably about 75 hours). I'd spend the extra and get the real one if you want one of those. For that price I prefer the Cygnus but it is closer to my preferred sound so that's JMHO.


----------



## vapman

Yeah i bought a green ting just out of curiosity and while i didn't hate it like the tomahawks, it's just okay to me. So it never gets used. It's kind if of thin and bright but in a flat way.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

tomasz2d said:


> This is just that we slowly one by one find our perfect earbuds. And if we find that one we loose interest in other earbuds (and maybe even we become less active here in this thread because the hunt is over). "You cross the door - there's no coming back". That happened to you when you found your CAX, it happened to me when I found my Red De'mun, it happened to AudioNewbi3 when he found his Mojito, it happend to music4mhell when he found his Zen 2.0 Black, it happened to haiku when he found his EO320, it happened to Tayyab Pirzada when he found his Cygnus and so the story goes. We all found our perfect earbuds. Others are still searching - good luck to you! I am not saying I will stop trying new earbuds but I am slowing down, yeah, I am slowing down and I am much more picky now.


 
  
  


tomasz2d said:


> "All my children"...


 
  
 I am honored that you know my preference hahaha. Yup, I have slowed down considerably and even started to purchase IEM's (latest one being the Rose Hybird 8), but I still have the PT15 incoming together with the ROSE.

 After this, I am planning to recable my GSG earbud, make a MMCX silver plated cable for the PT15 using SeaHF cable, and then perhaps purchasing zhisan DSD player. Finally, guess I will buy one of the Fred's if exchange rate goes back to being favorable.


----------



## Father Time

I'm new to this site and forum. I'm looking for earbuds that actually have some low end, and sound great throughout the frequency spectrum. I'd be plugging directly into a macbook pro without an amp. Also looking for something I can buy here in the US. I've read through most of these posts and it seems that most of these earbuds must be ordered from Asia. Don't want to wait that long!
 Any suggestions appreciated.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## PeterPangea

Shozy Cygnus/Stardust is a good bet. They're asia based, but shipping is quick (around a week). Order from Penon Audio or directly on Shozy's FB page by sending them a message. Gl!


----------



## Spider fan

father time said:


> I'm new to this site and forum. I'm looking for earbuds that actually have some low end, and sound great throughout the frequency spectrum. I'd be plugging directly into a macbook pro without an amp. Also looking for something I can buy here in the US. I've read through most of these posts and it seems that most of these earbuds must be ordered from Asia. Don't want to wait that long!
> Any suggestions appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!


 
 There is a used Cygnus on ebay which is one of the best all arounders and a great first higher quality earbud.  I bought my Red Demun from the seller and he shipped it out quick and it was in great shape.  Seller is U.S based.   I think its listed for $55 buy it now which is a great price too.  Do a search on ebay for Shozy Cygnus and it should come up.  Strangely when I just do Cygnus it doesnt appear.  I'd buy it if I didnt already have one.


----------



## Father Time

Thank you PeterPangea and Spider Fan for the information. Will check them out now!


----------



## Spider fan

father time said:


> Thank you PeterPangea and Spider Fan for the information. Will check them out now!


 
 Dont be freaked out by the green oxidized cable.  Its normal and pretty cool in alot of our opinions.


----------



## Father Time

Thanks, I remember reading about that in some of the posts. Wouldn't bother me at all.


----------



## mochill

Cygnus\stardust both epic , no need any special amps . just plug and play


----------



## Father Time

Thanks Mochill, reading more review now.


----------



## mochill

Your welcomeif you can go straight for the stardust


----------



## Moscow

Talking about Shozy - is there real difference between balanced 2.5mm plug and regular 3.5mn one?


----------



## audio123

moscow said:


> Talking about Shozy - is there real difference between balanced 2.5mm plug and regular 3.5mn one?


 

 depends on your DAP. no difference in driver.


----------



## JASru

audio123 said:


> depends on your DAP. no difference in driver.


 
 Or having an adapter


----------



## Moscow

Yeah, but those adaptors are not at the right place always.


----------



## vapman

Why is the cygnus being recommended for a bud with strong low end or even medium low end???? 

I guess nobody else has their sony yet but at least asura 2.0 and qian39 have tons more bass depth than cygnus and are both easily available in asia.


----------



## Saoshyant

@vapman I'd recommend checking out the Rose Masya before the Cygnus given the desire for a decent low end as well.
  
 Also, while off topic, some people are saying the recommended fit for Audeze's new iSine line is actually not in ear, but resting the tip on the ear functioning somewhat like an earbud at that point.  Imagine a 30mm planar earbud.


----------



## Majin

vapman said:


> I don't know 1AB but most Sony I know have more natural sound than most earbuds, Monk aside. Most Sony earbuds I know don't have a mid high peak, it's actually a bit pulled back to not cause sibilance... but the SHE3800 is kind of  a sibilant/hissy bud too.
> 
> Tier 1 and even 2 and 3 make the SHE 3800 sound like trash from the garbage.


 
  
 What for reals. How would you rate the Q39? In which tier would they fall.


----------



## rockingthearies

vapman said:


> Why is the cygnus being recommended for a bud with strong low end or even medium low end????
> 
> I guess nobody else has their sony yet but at least asura 2.0 and qian39 have tons more bass depth than cygnus and are both easily available in asia.



Agreed cygnus does not have a very strong low end. But stronger in the mids.


----------



## Willber

father time said:


> I'm new to this site and forum. I'm looking for earbuds that actually have some low end, and sound great throughout the frequency spectrum. I'd be plugging directly into a macbook pro without an amp. Also looking for something I can buy here in the US. I've read through most of these posts and it seems that most of these earbuds must be ordered from Asia. Don't want to wait that long!
> Any suggestions appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!


 

 If you like deep bass and decent highs/mids then a good place to start is the Qian39 at about $6. Really, it's very good, but only available from Asia, I think:
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-Original-QianYun-Qian39-Hifi-In-Ear-Earphone-3-5MM-High-Qaulity-Flat-Head-Earbuds-In/32750815405.html
  
 Order them now and they will be a nice surprise when they turn up (mine took 2 weeks to the UK) whatever else you buy in the meantime.


----------



## mochill

Need good source to hear that low end


----------



## Willber

mochill said:


> Need good source to hear that low end


 

 What, the Qian39? Mine are easy to drive from my phone or laptop.


----------



## vapman

Yeah both Qians are under 16 ohms and sensitive too. Very easy to drive.


----------



## mochill

willber said:


> mochill said:
> 
> 
> > Need good source to hear that low end
> ...


the Cygnus and stardust does


----------



## vapman

Cygnus is mid centric and has very shallow bass depth compared to many others. Source won't change that.


----------



## mochill

Both my source's power it well


----------



## vapman

That's not what I'm arguing...


----------



## vapman

iPod mini 64gb sounds great with qian39 reshell & silver cable 

Much more clarity and better detail but less bass...


----------



## Father Time

Sheesh, all I can say is, I got a lot a readin' ta do! I've been through several hundred of the posts in this thread, and jumped around a few times to see what newer posts had to say, and I'm just as clueless as I was. I think  just need to order some of these buds and start experimenting.
 Thank for the recommendations for the qian39 Willber and vapman, and the Rose Masya Saoshyant, will read some more reviews on these.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Cygnus is mid centric and has very shallow bass depth compared to many others. Source won't change that.


enough for Cygnus


----------



## Expansion

vapman said:


> I don't know 1AB but most Sony I know have more natural sound than most earbuds, Monk aside. Most Sony earbuds I know don't have a mid high peak, it's actually a bit pulled back to not cause sibilance... but the SHE3800 is kind of  a sibilant/hissy bud too.
> 
> Tier 1 and even 2 and 3 make the SHE 3800 sound like trash from the garbage.


 
  
 Which are top Tier 1/2 in your opinion? 
 Keep in mind that Tier 1 should mean "the whole package", not something like: "yes, it has the best mids/highs I've ever heard on a headphone, but it is bass light". It has to have everything. So, IMHO, if is bass light, then it shouldn't be no.1 no matter how good the mids/highs are. If it has harsh highs or too much mids, again, not no.1.
  
 For example, SHE3800 deliver enough bass impact to compensate the fact that they do not seal like in-ear, or over-ear headphones. You're outside walking, and you can still feel that impact. They won't hit like a sealed over-ear, but you don't feel the need for it to do that.They do not have enhanced highs, not recessed mids. This should be the definition of balanced. 
 Yes, on some rock music i could say that SHE3800 doesn't sound detailed enough/a bit muddy/not enough highs.But I'll take this trade-off against having to endure that piercing sound of Mrice E100.


----------



## vapman

expansion said:


> Which are top Tier 1/2 in your opinion?
> Keep in mind that Tier 1 should mean "the whole package", not something like: "yes, it has the best mids/highs I've ever heard on a headphone, but it is bass light". It has to have everything. So, IMHO, if is bass light, then it shouldn't be no.1 no matter how good the mids/highs are. If it has harsh highs or too much mids, again, not no.1.
> 
> For example, SHE3800 deliver enough bass impact to compensate the fact that they do not seal like in-ear, or over-ear headphones. You're outside walking, and you can still feel that impact. They won't hit like a sealed over-ear, but you don't feel the need for it to do that.They do not have enhanced highs, not recessed mids. This should be the definition of balanced.
> Yes, on some rock music i could say that SHE3800 doesn't sound detailed enough/a bit muddy/not enough highs.But I'll take this trade-off against having to endure that piercing sound of Mrice E100.


 
 Hmmmmmm
  
 Tier 1 for me is probably Asura 2 & Zen 2. Strangely enough I didn't like Asura 2 to keep my very first set. I bought and sold it twice before sticking with the set I have and realizing it is better than most. Edimun V3, Red Demun, TY 650 can all be tier 1 as well, but they all have very different sound signatures from one another.
  
 Tier 2 is stuff like Qian39, Qian25, Sony E808+, even Monk. The main separation between tier 1 and 2 in my opinion is that Tier 1 buds I listed are either master of all or master of some, but great with anything. The Tier 2 can show their weaknesses a little more prominently but that should be expected at a sub $10 price point of each one!
  
 I'm still waiting for some high end stuff to arrive in the mail.


----------



## Danneq

Finding a perfectly balanced earbud that at the same time is TOTL can be quite difficult.an earbud that excels in soundstage can lack in bass (Aiwa HP D9) or lean too much toward brightness (Rose Mojito). Highs can be rolled off (Zen 2) or bass almost too slamming (Zen 1).

I can enjoy cheap earbuds like Monk+ much more than TOTL earbuds that are too bright or too bassy.

My favorite earbud maker for a long time has been Blox. The Blox sound Is very smooth and the higher end ones such as TM7 and Anv3 have also been very detailed. Cypherus is my new favorite with amazingly analogue sounding earbuds that have great detail without having the least tendency toward brightness, great bass without drowning everything in bass. I'm not too crazy about mid centric earbuds in general, but I still love QFred.

Different people have different preferences so either you follow this thread and identify those with a similar tastes as you or you try just about everything to find what you like.


----------



## Expansion

Thank you both for the replies.
  
 Danneq, can you post a link to the Cypherus that you are refering to? I cannot find it. Also for QFred. 
  
 I'll try to make up my mind on what should I buy from Vapman's suggestions and your suggestions.


----------



## Danneq

expansion said:


> Thank you both for the replies.
> 
> Danneq, can you post a link to the Cypherus that you are refering to? I cannot find it. Also for QFred.
> 
> I'll try to make up my mind on what should I buy from Vapman's suggestions and your suggestions.




Cypherus is a tiny audio company that focuses on high end modding and similar stuff. Prices reflect that. QFred is $200 excluding shipping. CampFred is more of an all rounder and it's $150 excluding shipping. Still, I find the Cypherus earbuds to beat almost all other $150-200 earbuds I have heard so far.

I think you should first try to track down a pair of Blox, like B200. Those can be found for around $50-55. But B200 was a limited release mainly in Thailand (Blox is a Thai company) so it can be difficult to find if you do not contact Blox directly.

Edit: here's a link to a thread about Cypherus earbuds: http://www.head-fi.org/t/826036/cypherus-audio-products-appreciation-and-discussion-thread-campfred-earbuds-qfred-earbuds-and-cax-golden-reference

I read about QFred here and waited a long time for someone to take a chance and buy them, but it never happened. So I sold some audio stuff and bought a pair. Out of the box they sounded good but I wasn't overwhelmed. I let them burn in for the recommended 60 hours and by then they had improved (what I heard as a mid bass hump at first had pretty much gone away). I listened and started to appreciate the sound signature and discovered how wonderful I thought the overall timbre was. I sold as much as possible and borrowed over $300 from my own savings account and bought 2 other Cypherus earbuds - CampFred ($150) ans CAX black edition ($280). Both blew me away out of the box. CampFred is laid back but at the same time so very detailed and natural sounding. CAX black is a pair of full size headphones in earbud format. Magic pixie dust must have been used to make them sound so mature.

After I bought the Cypherus earbuds I feel almost like a religious convert who wants to convert other people as well...


----------



## golov17

Meizu mx2 + Suvov s20 + Mr. Jeff Beck = just wow


----------



## BloodyPenguin

While I am not quite recommending these, the MusicMaker/Toneking T0300 is growing on me a bit.  It has a nice smooth, airy presentation.  Not the best for detail (or mids) it still is decently musical.

 Also found my old FiiO E07K laying around, so I decided to pair the two up and have been enjoying them for a few hours now.
  

  
 --


----------



## Saoshyant

Danneq I can't remember if I've already asked, but have you tried the B200 yet?


----------



## purplesun

golov17 said:


> Meizu mx2 + Suvov s20 + Mr. Jeff Beck = just wow


 
  






 Jeff Beck (with Tal Wilkenfeld) at Ronnie Scott's was high on my playlist last year. Listening again, thanks


----------



## golov17

purplesun said:


> Jeff Beck (with Tal Wilkenfeld) at Ronnie Scott's was high on my playlist last year. Listening again, thanks


----------



## Pasopati

Cygnus is failed recommendation for someone who search for balance tonality. Under 75hz is nonexistant and high freq stop at 12.5khz 
Soundstage is even smaller in width than my iem. Oh and overly smooth and forward mid. Sold it in the first day


----------



## Danneq

saoshyant said:


> Danneq I can't remember if I've already asked, but have you tried the B200 yet?




Nope, but I have read good things about it and if it's got the signature Blox sound it's a definite recommendation. But I'm holding out for the new flagship...


----------



## vapman

I never realized how similar Red De'mun and Asura 2.0 are. They are so much more similar than Demun and Edimun.
  
 Edimun is a very V shaped bud. Red De'mun has almost a present midrange as Cygnus but has great extension on both ends and exceptional imaging. I always thought of it like the MX985 but a lot more fun. The Asura 2.0 is more energetic than the Red De'mun and has even better extension on both ends but sounds less focused on what you hear than the Red De'mun.
  
 All are great to have. But Red De'mun is one of my most prized buds and I use it way more than my Edimun to be honest. Edimun is a more fun listen but Red De'mun is a more accurate listen.


----------



## subwoof3r

danneq said:


> Nope, but I have read good things about it and if it's got the signature Blox sound it's a definite recommendation. But I'm holding out for the new flagship...


 

 I will also wait for next Blox flagship 
 I was hesitating to buy B200 but my BE3 first gen already satisfy me a lot. Everything is just perfect from this earbud, and from what I read, B200 seems to match a lot BE3.


----------



## Pasopati

subwoof3r said:


> I will also wait for next Blox flagship
> I was hesitating to buy B200 but my BE3 first gen already satisfy me a lot. Everything is just perfect from this earbud, and from what I read, B200 seems to match a lot BE3.




I'm loving my b200, i prefer it to k's 500 and zen 1


----------



## golov17

somebody loves HSA LIVE?


----------



## Pasopati

golov17 said:


> somebody loves HSA LIVE?




Couldn't stand more than 1 minute, mid and treble sound sooo unnatural


----------



## golov17

pasopati said:


> Couldn't stand more than 1 minute, mid and treble sound sooo unnatural


thx


----------



## moon20160404

December 6.
 B160、B320


----------



## golov17

moon20160404 said:


> 12月6日に出荷


 what Shipped on December 6?


----------



## moon20160404

golov17 said:


> maybe tried some new?


 
 shipped on Dec 6th
 I focus on BLOX and Heavenly Sounds.
 Old Japanese earphone (NEC, Sharp etc).
 I almost hear J-pop.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Anyone Heard / Test the HIFIMAN ES100 ? Is it any good?
  
 What would you guys recommend / top pick for under $100.


----------



## Danneq

midnightempest said:


> Anyone Heard / Test the HIFIMAN ES100 ? Is it any good?
> 
> What would you guys recommend / top pick for under $100.




It's pretty good but not overwhelming. Actually for me it was the other way around. Not bad in any way but still slightly underwhelming.

If you order from something like Ali express either Music maker/Toneking Ting or Shozy Cygnus would be better.

If you can find them for under $100 with shipping included either Edimun V3 (Bengkel Macro) or Red De'mun (De'mun), both earbuds from small Indonesian audio companies, might be good options...


----------



## musicday

Stardust vs Cax Black vs Zen V2.0 black?
I use Tera Player with 10 ohm output.M onk+ are 64 ohm and sound good but have a small soundstage.


----------



## vapman

musicday said:


> Stardust vs Cax Black vs Zen V2.0 black?
> I use Tera Player with 10 ohm output.M onk+ are 64 ohm and sound good but have a small soundstage.


 
 So do you want a sound like Monk+ but with better soundstage?
  
 You're gonna be waiting a reaaally long time to wait for an impression of those 3 buds against each other, lol. I don't know anyone on this site who has more than one of those at a time. Danneq might be the first to have CAX and Stardust but he doesn't like the Zen 2.
  
 Also I think if anyone here had a Tera Player they would help you out by now, but it's not gonna be easy finding others with a 3000-euro DAP here either...
  
  
  


midnightempest said:


> Anyone Heard / Test the HIFIMAN ES100 ? Is it any good?
> 
> What would you guys recommend / top pick for under $100.


 
  
 Very accurate neutral and detailed. Not for fans of deep or strong bass. nonexistant under about 80hz.


----------



## Danneq

musicday said:


> Stardust vs Cax Black vs Zen V2.0 black?
> I use Tera Player with 10 ohm output.M onk+ are 64 ohm and sound good but have a small soundstage.




Stardust (16 ohm I think) and CAX black (32 ohm I think) do not require an amp. Zen 2 black (320 ohm) does...

I won't buy Stardust until January but from what I have read and how ClieOS ranked it, Stardust is probably a competitor to CampFred and not CAX black. For me CampFred beats all other TOTL earbuds, even my old favorite Blox TM7 (barely, but still CampFred beats it).
CAX black is on another level and cannot even be compared to stuff like CampFred, Blox TM7, Sennheiser MX985 or Zen 1. The others sound like $5 earbuds in comparison...


----------



## mochill

musicday said:


> Stardust vs Cax Black vs Zen V2.0 black?
> I use Tera Player with 10 ohm output.M onk+ are 64 ohm and sound good but have a small soundstage.


 Zen 2 black edition


----------



## Danneq

mochill said:


> Zen 2 black edition




You should buy CAX black. It would be cool to read a comparison of the two black edition giants...


----------



## purplesun

Reporting in on 1More EO320 after 1 day burn-in. A more capable RX-1 as some have said here. Less mid-centric, a bit more top-end and quite a lot more low-end than RX-1. Slight V to the FR, but mostly quite well represented across the spectrum. It's only a day's burn-in and already it sounds like it's reaching mid-bass & early upper-treble quite nicely. Treble is a little grainy but I think should open up with some more play time. Overall, a good all-round earbud.


----------



## Fabi

Some K's 500 impressions
  


Spoiler: Picture






  
 Well, I like the plug and the cable is very good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But it has the same microphonics as K's 64 when you move the cable near the shells, not a serious matter for me.
  
  
 About the sound, it sounds balanced, less warm and less forward than TY HP-400s.
 They both require an amp to shine. Mine is just enough to make them sound very good, around 5.5 Vrms theorically. There's still a lot of room for improvement.
 The other day I tried the 400s on iDSD Black Label, 8 to 10 Vrms on specs, it was like heaven on soundstage and refinement.
 So I guess K's 500 would sound even better on a powerhouse but I'll have to wait a couple of weeks.
 Otherwise, with less power, it may sound narrow, with a too forward bass, distant midrange and sibilant highs. When well-powered, I don't have these flaws.
  
  
 Bass is deeeeep, detailed, tight, clean, it roars like an V8 engine, whereas TY 400s is more on (too much) enveloping mid-bass and impact. I have to say on K's 500, it may sound too deep and powering on some tracks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Midrange sounds detailed and full as TY but more forward and warm on TY. Both have beautiful midrange.
  
 Highs are airy, very well extended and no noticeable sibilance. 400s is smoother.
  
 Presentation is less forward than on TY, we have here a very wide but still immersive soundstage and very good resolution, instrument separation.
  
  
 Overall, K's 500 sounds detailed, balanced, very slightly warm, wide, immersive, well extended, bodied. No lacking, no big coloration.
 I'd say these are my favorite earbuds at the moment for home use. It would be more fair to compare these with TY HP650 coming next week and with more power.
  
  
 I like the cleanness, immersion, refinement of high impedance earbuds that I haven't found on low impedance amped earbuds so far.
 Maybe I simply haven't bought the good ones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -----> CAX, Stardust, Blox, Crow, Demun, Edimun, HS but Rose earbuds may be not for me  
 And there are many other high impedance earbuds, not even speaking of the ones that we are expecting and not released yet...
  
 OMG that's a lot of money! End game is an endless game that we all like to play here.


----------



## Fabi

TY HP-32s
 Argh another order


----------



## vapman

fabi said:


> TY HP-32s
> Argh another order


 
 Interesting..... any word on sound sig?


----------



## Willber

vapman said:


> fabi said:
> 
> 
> > TY HP-32s
> ...


 

 I understand Fabi's post now - Hi-Z 32*s*


----------



## vapman

Perhaps it is a premium cable version of the TY 32.

Speaking of which. A lot of buds have come and go since i got these bad boys. But every time i take the time to revisit them i remember why Tomasz2D doesn't post as much anymore! They are just way too good and personally win over the Edimun to me as I prefer the more forward tone of the de'mun.

But behold lest you forget the original red colored goliath. My most prized bud ever. *Red De'mun is still my king of buds.*


----------



## purplesun

I have the TY Hi-Z 32R in my next taobao package. Looks exactly same as the 32S. Hoping for better overall control than the regular HP32 with improved cabling. About another week or 2 out before it arrives.


----------



## ClieOS

danneq said:


> Stardust (16 ohm I think) and CAX black (32 ohm I think) do not require an amp. Zen 2 black (320 ohm) does...
> 
> I won't buy Stardust until January but from what I have read and how ClieOS ranked it, Stardust is probably a competitor to CampFred and not CAX black. For me CampFred beats all other TOTL earbuds, even my old favorite Blox TM7 (barely, but still CampFred beats it).
> CAX black is on another level and cannot even be compared to stuff like CampFred, Blox TM7, Sennheiser MX985 or Zen 1. The others sound like $5 earbuds in comparison...


 
  
 Sent me your CampFred / CAX Black and I'll tell you exactly how I think about them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 ...then again, when I read that they have stiff cable, something on my head just automatically get turned off. I just can't use any earphone that don't like to be moved around.


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> I have the TY Hi-Z 32R in my next taobao package. Looks exactly same as the 32S. Hoping for better overall control than the regular HP32 with improved cabling. About another week or 2 out before it arrives.


 
 Interesting, I never heard of the R version. no word on how it's supposed to sound or otherwise be different? Typical of TY to release things without a peep 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Red De'mun is the only earbud I don't mind the stiffer cable of. It sounds good enough I can allow it.


----------



## music4mhell

clieos said:


> danneq said:
> 
> 
> > Stardust (16 ohm I think) and CAX black (32 ohm I think) do not require an amp. Zen 2 black (320 ohm) does...
> ...


 
 So at last you got some interest in CAX and Campfred  Nice !
 By the way Zen black also has very stiff cable..but there must be some good science reason for the cables to become stiff


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

where can I order a Red De'mun in USA?


----------



## vapman

midnightempest said:


> where can I order a Red De'mun in USA?


 
 Impossible. Built to order from Indonesia. Maybe you could find a used one for sale if you are very lucky.


----------



## luedriver

willber said:


> I understand Fabi's post now - Hi-Z 32*s*


 
  
 I too thought the first post was someone ordering a hp32, I feel like this is TY answer to the monk candy, will wait for reviews if I don't give in and buy them
  
  


purplesun said:


> I have the TY Hi-Z 32R in my next taobao package. Looks exactly same as the 32S. Hoping for better overall control than the regular HP32 with improved cabling. About another week or 2 out before it arrives.


 
 now there is a hidden R version as well, will have to wait till this clears up


----------



## golov17

Mrice e100




vs Baldoor e100


----------



## moon20160404

Mr. Woo said that this package will ship on December 6.
 I almost hear J-pop. I am focusing on BLOX and Heavenly Sounds.


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> Mrice e100
> 
> vs Baldoor e100


 
 :O
 Nice posts. a good earbud but unfortunately many mediocre ones of the same name


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> :O
> Nice posts. a good earbud but unfortunately many mediocre ones of the same name


Mrice in VJJB housing for best fit


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> Mrice in VJJB housing for best fit


 
 DIY?


----------



## rggz

I've seen that "Z-sound" which ClieOS has added on the first page tagged as Mrice/Baldoor in this IG but I thought that was because that similar bell's shape or is it a new thing coming from Mrice/Baldoor under a different name? Any thoughts about that @ClieOS?


----------



## vapman

rggz said:


> I've seen that "Z-sound" which ClieOS has added on the first page tagged as Mrice/Baldoor in this IG but I thought that was because that similar bell's shape or is it a new thing coming from Mrice/Baldoor under a different name? Any thoughts about that @ClieOS?


 
 That looks to be a slighty different shape from the E100. Similar design, but a little different.
  

  
  
 Sadly I can't find my working set of E100, or I would recable them... the rest have at least 1 dead driver


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> That looks to be a slighty different shape from the E100. Similar design, but a little different.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


same


----------



## fairx

If I can find sound just like ty 320 ohm but with improved lower mid Ala she3800 I would really considering. Anybody own both and know what I mean maybe can give some suggestion. I love she3800 lower mid its something different from my all other buds.


----------



## Fabi

TY HP-32s seems the same with better cable with red sleeve. 
"Wire：Copper and silver mixed woven"

On taobao, there is HP-32R with red sleeve too and several versions, I'll investigate later on that. 
The Colarad C01 looks the same with red sleeve, red shells and Colarad markings...


----------



## vapman

fairx said:


> If I can find sound just like ty 320 ohm but with improved lower mid Ala she3800 I would really considering. Anybody own both and know what I mean maybe can give some suggestion. I love she3800 lower mid its something different from my all other buds.


 
 Maybe one of the Indonesian made buds  But I never had TY 320, only the different Seahf 320, so i can't comment on that exact sound


----------



## Majin

Does anybody know where i can get these for a low price?


----------



## Fabi

clieos said:


> Sent me your CampFred / CAX Black and I'll tell you exactly how I think about them


 I think you're the only one who can succeed to convince him to do that


----------



## Danneq

clieos said:


> Sent me your CampFred / CAX Black and I'll tell you exactly how I think about them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I could do that with CampFred, but I'm guarding CAX black with my life!

 I might not stop buying earbuds (I'm too much of an earbud junkie for that), but at least I am now out of the "mid tier" market. I probably won't buy any more earbuds between $20-120 (or something like that). I'll stick to budget ones (Qian39 is really great for a sub $10 earbud!) and TOTL ones.

 Received an order the other day that I made almost 1,5 month ago. I think it was just before or after I had ordered the QFreds.
 It was Music maker TY2, **** PT15 and Qian39.

 TY2 is just awful. Boxy sounding with not very good details. I love Tomahawk and Ting, but TY2 was a disappointment. I have also received TP16 in another order and those are not to my liking either.
 Will probably try to sell both TY2 and TP16...

 **** PT15 is leagues above TY2 when it comes to resolution. But I do not like piercing highs so they'll go as well.

 Qian39 is a definite keeper. A $6 earbud that sounds really good and that I don't need to worry about breaking when using it.

 About the cable on CAX black edition, I think it is a cardas cable. It is similar to Zen 2 black but I do not think it's a copy even if it came later. The CAX Golden reference was released in early 2016 and uses an even more stiff cable than CAX black. The CAX black is a sort of successor to golden reference that is made in more pairs (8 vs 2 for Golden reference). Cypherus might make more CAX black if Herry can track down more of the NOS drivers used.

 Isn't there someone in Malaysia who owns a pair of Cypherus earbuds? You can always take a trip to Jakarta to check them out on LittleSound or perhaps even after chatting to Herry of Cypherus?

 For me it was a blind purchase and I was rewarded. Some blind purchases have not been like that (Hisoundaudio Living, NW studio pro etc - I am looking at you!). But how will I know if I do not take a chance and no one else does it?


----------



## AudioNewbi3 (Dec 19, 2017)

danneq said:


> I could do that with CampFred, but I'm guarding CAX black with my life!
> 
> I might not stop buying earbuds (I'm too much of an earbud junkie for that), but at least I am now out of the "mid tier" market. I probably won't buy any more earbuds between $20-120 (or something like that). I'll stick to budget ones (Qian39 is really great for a sub $10 earbud!) and TOTL ones.
> 
> ...


 
 Who in owns CAMP FREDS?! WHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! SHOW YOURSELVES!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> Perhaps it is a premium cable version of the TY 32.
> 
> Speaking of which. A lot of buds have come and go since i got these bad boys. But every time i take the time to revisit them i remember why @Tomasz2D doesn't post as much anymore! They are just way too good and personally win over the Edimun to me as I prefer the more forward tone of the de'mun.
> 
> But behold lest you forget the original red colored goliath. My most prized bud ever. *Red De'mun is still my king of buds.*


 
 This is correct. My top 5 favorit buds in alphabetic order are:
  
 Astrotec Lyra6
 AuGlamour RX-1
 Red De'mun
 Sennheiser MX 985
 Venture Electronics (VE) Zen 2.0
  
 and Red De'mun is my #1. It has just perfect tuning to my ears - I wouldn't change anything in it. The RD's maker created very delicate sound construction there, I am afraid that if one part of it is changed - the whole construction would fall apart. RD is somehow similar to MX985 but whereas MX985 is perfect to the point being boring, RD is perfect but with a twist. RD is more lively and likes to play litlle tricks - suddenly suprising with some notes/phrases coming from multidimentional space.
  
 That's why I'm waiting for Danneq to compare RD to Cypherus earbuds. RD cannot get any better than it is already but I might be interested in Cypherus earbuds if they can offer different but similarily interesting sound as RD.


----------



## Danneq

Astrotec Lyra6 - like it a lot (minus the 6/earhooks)
 AuGlamour RX-1 - too mid focused and small soundstage for me
 Red De'mun - TBA
 Sennheiser MX 985 - great great great!
 Venture Electronics (VE) Zen 2.0 - never could get into them. Highs too rolled off for my taste


 I'm looking forward to the second hand pair of Red De'mun that I bought! If they are like MX985 but more "fun" I should really like them. Personally I find Blox TM7 to be like MX985 but more fun (or well... lush and smooth). CampFred is a small step up from that with a lovely analogue timbre.


----------



## pack21

My little mod using inverted tips to improve the fit of PT15 on the ear.


----------



## Majin

danneq said:


> I could do that with CampFred, but I'm guarding CAX black with my life!
> 
> I might not stop buying earbuds (I'm too much of an earbud junkie for that), but at least I am now out of the "mid tier" market. I probably won't buy any more earbuds between $20-120 (or something like that). I'll stick to budget ones (Qian39 is really great for a sub $10 earbud!) and TOTL ones.
> 
> ...


 
  
 How would you rate the Qian39 vs Monk+ ?


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> Astrotec Lyra6 - like it a lot (minus the 6/earhooks)
> AuGlamour RX-1 - too mid focused and small soundstage for me
> Red De'mun - TBA
> Sennheiser MX 985 - great great great!
> Venture Electronics (VE) Zen 2.0 - never could get into them. Highs too rolled off for my taste


 
  
 When I read your posts, I think we both may like similar tonal balance but this is soundstage where we have different tastes. You prefer bigger and airy sounstage and I prefer more direct and closer sound. But there are parts where our tastes overlaps, and MX985 and Lyra6 must be in "C" section.
  

  
  
  
  
@vapman This is interesting that although you are basshead, you seem to favor balanced or even little mid-centric earbuds. Do you equalize Red De'mun and does it response to it well?


----------



## Saoshyant

I'm unsure if I have a current #1, but I think for my tastes the Rose Masya might be it.  It handles vocals quite well, has decent detail to the point where my recording of Rachmaninoff's 2nd Piano Concerto (Richter) is pleasing, can achieve one of the better bass performances I've heard from an earbud so something like Portishead sounds good after some EQ while still maintaining quality vocals.  It even has a longer cable than what came with the Mojito by maybe a foot or so, which did bother me with that earbud as I had no other cables to use.  It kind of has the feel of a Cygnus with better bass performance.  For me, it actually makes the MX985 feel a little boring.
  
 While I assume there are no difference between the standard and carbon fiber versions of Masya, I can't say for sure as I haven't really looked into it.


----------



## Willber

majin said:


> danneq said:
> 
> 
> > Qian39 is a definite keeper. A $6 earbud that sounds really good and that I don't need to worry about breaking when using it.
> ...


 
  
 For what it's worth I prefer the Qian39 in every department, and vapman has included a comparison in his excellent review here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/qianyun-qian39/reviews/17094
  
 (You might not know that you can edit quotes to save repeating a whole post if you want.)


----------



## Danneq

majin said:


> How would you rate the Qian39 vs Monk+ ?


 


 I haven't compared them directly yet. Qian39 seem to be closer to TY32 with a more fun type of sound. I think that Monk+ has got a more neutral type of sound compared to TY32 (and probably Qian39 as well).

 Will compare them side by side later.


----------



## Saoshyant

I believe my Qian39 has arrived in the US from the 11.11 sale, so hopefully will have it within a week.  I'm curious to compare it to some of the various entry level earbuds I have, which it feels like I have way more than I can really justify.  Good thing so many of them are just so inexpensive it's not even a consideration.


----------



## Majin

danneq said:


> I haven't compared them directly yet. Qian39 seem to be closer to TY32 with a more fun type of sound. I think that Monk+ has got a more neutral type of sound compared to TY32 (and probably Qian39 as well).
> 
> Will compare them side by side later.


 
  
 Ye I 've read the TY32 were on par with the Monk+ but having a different sound sig and that the Qian39 would be a tier above both of them.


----------



## ClieOS

rggz said:


> I've seen that "Z-sound" which ClieOS has added on the first page tagged as Mrice/Baldoor in this IG but I thought that was because that similar bell's shape or is it a new thing coming from Mrice/Baldoor under a different name? Any thoughts about that @ClieOS?


 
  
 As far as I know, Z-sound shares no known relationship with Mrice or Baldoor. I do however see it being mentioned as 'AM118'.


----------



## NLNH

pack21 said:


> My little mod using inverted tips to improve the fit of PT15 on the ear.


 
 I used 30 seconds to figure out what that is before looking into your text


----------



## Ira Delphic

pack21 said:


> My little mod using inverted tips to improve the fit of PT15 on the ear.


 
  
 I'll give it a try tonight! My second pair of PT15's arrived (this one silver cable) - an 11.11 order.
 Fit is the main issue that I have with the PT15. Needing to use EQ to bump up the bass with some music is a weakness that I can live with. Just like the **** 4in1, people love them or hate them!
  
 I have plenty of extra tips lying around. Will try the huge ones that came with TTPOD T1.


----------



## Ira Delphic

Any idea what these are? My guess is old Blackberry earbuds. The jack is 2.5"
 Looks like it has a mic.
  
  

 Three vent holes -


----------



## Father Time

I can't seem to find out where to purchase the Red De'mun earbuds. Anyone have a link?


----------



## Moscow

father time said:


> I can't seem to find out where to purchase the Red De'mun earbuds. Anyone have a link?




https://m.facebook.com/demuncustomcable


----------



## Tonx

ira delphic said:


> I'll give it a try tonight! My second pair of PT15's arrived (this one silver cable) - an 11.11 order.
> Fit is the main issue that I have with the PT15. Needing to use EQ to bump up the bass with some music is a weakness that I can live with. Just like the **** 4in1, people love them or hate them!
> 
> I have plenty of extra tips lying around. Will try the huge ones that came with TTPOD T1.


 
 Try to wearing PT15 over ear,works fine for me,


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> When I read your posts, I think we both may like similar tonal balance but this is soundstage where we have different tastes. You prefer bigger and airy sounstage and I prefer more direct and closer sound. But there are parts where our tastes overlaps, and MX985 and Lyra6 must be in "C" section.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I too think danneq would like Red Demun and possibly more than Edimun as it is a fun and engaging version of the mx985 sound to me.

Tomasz2D you are correct sir. I love balanced and natural sound about equally as i love slammin bass  but i use the samr equalizer settings i use with large over ears or something. So i am always boosting bass fairly heavily and reducing everything above about 175Hz by 6 or 7dB so allow me to further push the bass. The sound signature and characteristics remain but i can coax a lot more bass out of anything this way. And i hate buds without any mids! (hehe. The e808+ is dangerously close  )

BTW my extra Qian39 finally showed up today. And i have two packages i have to collect at the post office... I haven't heard the stock Qian39 sound in so long!


----------



## golov17

Love buds


----------



## vapman

ira delphic said:


> Any idea what these are? My guess is old Blackberry earbuds. The jack is 2.5"
> Looks like it has a mic.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have a set of these in white. They are Blackberry ones, yup.  They stay in my car for making calls if i have no other buds or something.


----------



## Fabi

golov17 said:


> Love buds


 
 Not the TI version? I had both. TI is slightly better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 Yours is recabled which is a good thing.


----------



## golov17

fabi said:


> Not the TI version? I had both. TI is slightly better
> Yours is recabled which is a good thing.


this Ti, btw i have cm700bw too


----------



## Fabi

My bad, I thought it was the BW on the picture..
 Very nice golov!


----------



## golov17

fabi said:


> My bad, I thought it was the BW on the picture..
> Very nice golov!


agrrree


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> this Ti, btw i have cm700bw too




Do you have CM7? I liked that but sold my CM7SV and CM700TI to buy other audio stuff...


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> Do you have CM7? I liked that but sold my CM7SV and CM700TI to buy other audio stuff...


in searching of TM7, CM7 too..


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Can these Earbud sound as good as  those Triple / Quad Driver IEMs or At least the equivalently priced IEMs? Should I start off with a budget TY 32 or jump to something better like the Rose Masya / Cynus / MM Ting ? My Purchase will be base on what Penon Audio has since their shipping seem to be faster, I don't have what it takes to wait a month.
  
 I've had the DUNU Titan 5 that I liked, Hoping I could get something better at a lower price if possible.


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> in searching of TM7, CM7 too..




No rest for the earbud hunter!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

danneq said:


> No rest for the earbud hunter!


 
  
 It is 1am in Chicagoland and I have been on the hunt for some new, fun earbuds for a while now. 

 I won't post how many or what is on the way, but I should have some new stuff within the next few weeks (hopefully days) to share. 
  
 Now I just have to stalk my mailman.


----------



## JASru

midnightempest said:


> Can these Earbud sound as good as  those Triple / Quad Driver IEMs or At least the equivalently priced IEMs? Should I start off with a budget TY 32 or jump to something better like the Rose Masya / Cynus / MM Ting ? My Purchase will be base on what Penon Audio has since their shipping seem to be faster, I don't have what it takes to wait a month.
> 
> I've had the DUNU Titan 5 that I liked, Hoping I could get something better at a lower price if possible.


 
 If I remeber correctly the Titan 5 has V-shapped signature?
  
 Among earbuds V-shaped are Moondrop VX, Rose Mojito, maybe something else that I do not remember.
 My guess is if you aim to get mid-range from start - get VX (better with coupons 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). There were not many people who had it,  but the feedback was overwhelmingly positive given its resemblance to Mojito, while being much cheaper.


----------



## Danneq

jasru said:


> If I remeber correctly the Titan 5 has V-shapped signature?
> 
> Among earbuds V-shaped are Moondrop VX, Rose Mojito, maybe something else that I do not remember.
> My guess is if you aim to get mid-range from start - get VX (better with coupons
> ...


 


 The "Dark Horse ES-E2" earbuds that I'm selling also have a V shaped sound with good bass, slightly recessed mids, extended highs and a relatively large soundstage. A bit too bright for me though (but slightly less than Mojito)...


----------



## Sempenyi

Guys, how do you compare qian 39 qian 25 old monk and seahf 32 ?


----------



## vapman

bloodypenguin said:


> It is 1am in Chicagoland and I have been on the hunt for some new, fun earbuds for a while now.
> 
> I won't post how many or what is on the way, but I should have some new stuff within the next few weeks (hopefully days) to share.
> 
> Now I just have to stalk my mailman.


 
  Same here. Especially as I made the mistake of using Sing Post with Mistertao resulting in no tracking information AND signature required. Haha. But when that shows up, I will have more fun stuff to share. I got my backup Qian39 so I finally was able to compare my silver cable Q39 to a stock one.
  
  


sempenyi said:


> Guys, how do you compare qian 39 qian 25 old monk and seahf 32 ?


 
 Qian39 is warm with lively sound and lots of energetic bass. energy through the whole sound.

 Qian25 has tamed bass compared to Qian39 and is overall a slightly more balanced sound.
  
 Old monk is kinda thin in comparison but is about hand in hand with Qian25 in detailing.
  
 Seahf 32 is a gosh darned razor blade treble murder machine with no mids and hardly any bass except a mid bass hump. For beyer fans or people who find PT15 treble to be dull only.


----------



## JASru

vapman said:


> Same here. Especially as I made the mistake of using Sing Post with Mistertao resulting in no tracking information AND signature required. Haha. But when that shows up, I will have more fun stuff to share. I got my backup Qian39 so I finally was able to compare my silver cable Q39 to a stock one.
> 
> 
> Qian39 is warm with lively sound and lots of energetic bass. energy through the whole sound.
> ...


 
 Hey, I love my beyer cans and they are ok! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Anyway I laughed at Seahf description very hard. Brilliant description!


----------



## golov17

http://h5.m.taobao.com/moshtml-cn/buy/cp_tvq7-sa9zbfI-w.html


----------



## teston

Wow, I must say that the 1MORE EO320 is very good out of the box. After 2 days burned and some more day listening I feel that it's very similar to VE Asura 2 soundsign with a touch more bass, a bit smoother treb and same spacious and airy sound. The Asura mid is a bit more forward and a little more detail. Everyone say that it more close to Auglamour RX1 but I think that RX1 mid is a little congested, not as open as the other two, maybe mine is defective, idk. Definitely budget must buy for anybody who into the Asura 2 sound signature.
  
 The K's 64 Ohm is also good with brighter treb, a tad focus in high mid, less bass, good soundstage and detail. I like this as much as my original monk. Mine is the silver cable version.
  
 Still waiting for the **** PT15, other people opinion on this is fairly good so I have high hope for this one. Can't wait


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Received my **** PT15's today. 
  
 However, I only put in a coupled of songs worth of time into it as I was enjoying my Rose Hybird 8 which I bought together with the PT15's.
  
 Initial impressions:

 I would call this the little brother of the Mojito (or its baby), like the Dual Drivers, the only department lacking is the bass. Doublebass still sounds quite "meaty" or "bodied" with the PT15.
 It must be noted that the bass of the PT15 is leagues better than those of the Dual Drivers, sounstage of the PT15's is very spacious and quite deep. 
 Highs are also better than the Dual Drivers in that they are more refined with no noticeable graininess. However, they are not as well extended as the Mojito's highs (that is to be expected).
 Detail retrieval is good, but I cannot confirm yet as I only had a brief listening session.

 Overall, the detail and treble head within me is surprisingly satisfied. Airy and clear is the PT15's early impression.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> Seahf 32 is a gosh darned razor blade treble murder machine with no mids and hardly any bass except a mid bass hump. For beyer fans or people who find PT15 treble to be dull only.


 
  
  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






 Haaaaaa!!!!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 --


----------



## golov17

My **** after 150 h of burning, have more balanced sig, IMHO


----------



## golov17

http://www.head-fi.org/t/826036/cypherus-audio-products-appreciation-and-discussion-thread-campfred-earbuds-qfred-earbuds-and-cax-golden-reference/150#post_13066354


----------



## stilleh

Received the PT15 today. Initial impression is "meh..." I'll need to clean my brain from other review iems for a few days... I'll leave them on the burner for a few days as well.


----------



## Saoshyant

Sony E808+ has arrived, which might be the fastest order from Ali for me ever. Ordered on 11-27, which puts my two 11.11 earbud orders to shame on speed as only one of them has shown up in the US so far and should be here by the end of the week.


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> Sony E808+ has arrived, which might be the fastest order from Ali for me ever. Ordered on 11-27, which puts my two 11.11 earbud orders to shame on speed as only one of them has shown up in the US so far and should be here by the end of the week.


 
 I had an 11.11 order ship 3 days ago dude. I'm kinda done with Aliexpress -_-


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman said:


> I had an 11.11 order ship 3 days ago dude. I'm kinda done with Aliexpress -_-


 
  
 I might give Mister Tao a try soon, but I'd need to put together a shopping list.


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> I might give Mister Tao a try soon, but I'd need to put together a shopping list.




All my stuff showing up to the mrtao facility took less than a week. If i had chosed express shipping instead of $3 shipping i would have had it weeks ago! That was less than a week from 11.11


----------



## purplesun

saoshyant said:


> Sony E808+ has arrived, which might be the fastest order from Ali for me ever.


 
 IMHO, it takes about 3 days of mid-volume burning-in before E808+ reaches a listen-able state.
  
 Unfortunately, I think there's some lottery involved as to what it will sound like after 3 days. I had 6 of them so far (1 went to @vapman). 2 from tabao seller & another 4 from a different taobao seller. As far as I can tell, 2 from first seller & 2 from second seller has the same sound that vapman and I are commenting on (ie: big low bass, open staging, lovely but recessed mids, and thin-sounding treble).  The fifth bud had tighter bass and more strident mids & treble, but still not too bad & probably needs more burn in. The sixth bud was a complete mess; no low bass, harsh mids/highs and narrow staging. I will try to re-work the 6th unit to see what went wrong.


----------



## vapman

I too have a few others on the way and am really hoping it'll sound as nice  as the one I have. But then again 
 i have heard SHE3800 is kind of a lottery  of good or average buds too.... so maybe it's the same situation.


----------



## tintheman

Hi guys, I bought the *SONY ERICSSON HPM-64 *and liked it a lot, so I bought the second pair from a different seller. But this time, the buds themselves don't have the "bass reflex" print on them and sound is also different. Are there fakes out there even for these older model? If they do, how could you tell if they are fake?


----------



## vapman

tintheman said:


> Hi guys, I bought the *SONY ERICSSON HPM-64 *and liked it a lot, so I bought the second pair from a different seller. But this time, the buds themselves don't have the "bass reflex" print on them and sound is also different. Are there fakes out there even for these older model? If they do, how could you tell if they are fake?


 
 Hmmmm, well I have never seen one with out the bass reflex printed. But, mine might be fake too. They aren't from the early 00's. post a pic?


----------



## tintheman

I found one in ebay that has no print on it, mine is just the silver one with no print on it.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-Ericsson-HPM-64-In-Ear-Only-Headsets-DPY901623-NPFSF144-Red-Multi-/142070219596?hash=item21140b834c:g:JIEAAOSwqfNXnKia


----------



## tintheman

However when I bought mine in Amazon, the photo shows the buds with print...well...


----------



## vapman

No idea but I could send my HPM 64 to someone to see if they sound different.
  
 BTW just realize a stock Qian39 sounds like a mini Red Demun! Imagine increasing soundstage, clarity, and detailing by 100x as well as tighter + punchier bass and you have the Red Demun No wonder I love them so much. are you hearing this @Tomasz2D


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> BTW just realize a stock Qian39 sounds like a mini Red Demun! Imagine increasing soundstage, clarity, and detailing by 100x as well as tighter + punchier bass and you have the Red Demun No wonder I love them so much. are you hearing this @Tomasz2D


 
 I am hearing you and I will hear Qian39 very soon  They are my 11.11. loot.


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> I am hearing you and I will hear Qian39 very soon  They are my 11.11. loot.


 
 Cool, I didn't know if you had yours yet or not. 
  
 I'm stil comparing but the silver cable does make a difference. Will do one with copper litz probably


----------



## luedriver

vapman said:


> BTW just realize a stock Qian39 sounds like a mini Red Demun! Imagine increasing soundstage, clarity, and detailing by 100x as well as tighter + punchier bass and you have the Red Demun


 
 just as I was starting to get curious about the red demun's as well, while in the meantime, being really impressed by the  Qian39, in my honest opinion the sound is much bigger than what the earbud looks like, it also has nice synergy with my iphone 6s
  
 on other news the cygnus is on the slow boat and I couldn't resist and bought the ty hi-z hp32s


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

How does the 1More E1008 compare to the Cygnus, MM Ting,and Rose Masya?


----------



## Nachash

I've received the blue qian and the silver **** ordered on the 11.11

  
  
 Fun thing, I'm still waiting for the black **** ordered in October, I've learned a lesson. Use ePacket

  
  
 In the meantime I bought that 'Sony' earbud too.


----------



## JASru

nachash said:


> I've received the blue qian and the silver **** ordered on the 11.11
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Kek.
 11.11 order from the_one_who_shouldn't_be_named is still in China. ePacket.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Surprisingly, my package only took 3 weeks to arrive from HCK (including lag time for rose to produce my iem)


----------



## haiku

Received the EO1008. Start burning in......


----------



## haiku

Hmmm, 2 balanced armature drivers on each side for the EO1008. So far, my experiences with BAs weren´t good. But then I´ve read that BAs need even longer burn in then dynamic drivers. We´ll see......


----------



## teston

haiku said:


> Hmmm, 2 balanced armature drivers on each side for the EO1008. So far, my experiences with BAs weren´t good. But then I´ve read that BAs need even longer burn in then dynamic drivers. We´ll see......


 
 Mind sharing your first impressions about it? How do it compare to EO320 ootb?
 'Cause my EO320 is very good ootb.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Heads-up to those who cant get a proper fit from the **** PT15's. 
  
 Basically, the driver face is almost the same size as the Mojito. So I just used VE rubber rings and then put monk+ thin foams on them. Perfect fit just like the Mojito.
  
 I am so happy now.....very happy.
  
 EDIT: Halp, should I buy another pair of PT15's?


----------



## Tonx

haiku said:


> Hmmm, 2 balanced armature drivers on each side for the EO1008. So far, my experiences with BAs weren´t good. But then I´ve read that BAs need even longer burn in then dynamic drivers. We´ll see......


 
  
 Wait, where did you find the information about BA? 

 It's DD + ceramic diagraph, isn't it?


----------



## haiku

tonx said:


> Wait, where did you find the information about BA?
> 
> It's DD + ceramic diagraph, isn't it?


 

 I´ve read it on the seller´s website. Might be wrong. Maybe ClieOS can share some information....


----------



## haiku

teston said:


> Mind sharing your first impressions about it? How do it compare to EO320 ootb?
> 'Cause my EO320 is very good ootb.


 
 I would never have thought it, but the EO1008 has better resolution and improved dynamics from what I hear rootb. Also, the highs of the EO1008 breathe more and the bass is punchier. The EO320 sounds sweeter though.....


----------



## haiku

The EO1008 sounds much more like a precision instrument, plus it has way more headroom up north and down south of the frequency spectrum. The mids sound congested right now, but I guess they´ll open up after a while. EO320 still sound more analogue at the moment.....


----------



## haiku

edit


----------



## teston

haiku said:


> I would never have thought it, but the EO1008 has better resolution and improved dynamics from what I hear rootb. Also, the highs of the EO1008 breathe more and the bass is punchier. The EO320 sounds sweeter though.....



Thanks. The eo320 smoothness and realistic vocals is what I like about them. I may consider the eo1008 but I've been keeping my eyes on the campfred as many people describe them as analog sounding buds. Oh my, so much interesting earbuds show up recently.


----------



## Ira Delphic

audionewbi3 said:


> Heads-up to those who cant get a proper fit from the **** PT15's.
> 
> Basically, the driver face is almost the same size as the Mojito. So I just used VE rubber rings and then put monk+ thin foams on them. Perfect fit just like the Mojito.
> 
> I am so happy now.....very happy.


 
  
 Thanks will give it a try later this week! I got plenty of the VE rubber rings.


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, finally doing my initial listen on the E808+. Sounds good on the Shanling M1 & Rockbox X3 with no eq. Sadly, the normal +4 bass I use before going further was enough to showcase an issue with the right bud as something is loose. No issue with non-eq listening and it was cheap, so not going to even bother telling the store there's an issue. Too bad too, promising bass on this one.


----------



## Willber

saoshyant said:


> Well, finally doing my initial listen on the E808+. Sounds good on the Shanling M1 & Rockbox X3 with no eq. Sadly, the normal +4 bass I use before going further was enough to showcase an issue with the right bud as something is loose. No issue with non-eq listening and it was cheap, so not going to even bother telling the store there's an issue. Too bad too, promising bass on this one.


 

 I have two on the way, hopefully one of them is good!


----------



## ClieOS

haiku said:


> Hmmm, 2 balanced armature drivers on each side for the EO1008. So far, my experiences with BAs weren´t good. But then I´ve read that BAs need even longer burn in then dynamic drivers. We´ll see......


 
  
 Definitely not 2 balanced armature.
  
 E1008 has an piezoelectric ceramic (treble) driver + dynamic (mid/bass) driver configuration. Piezoelectric ceramic transducer isn't something new - it is the common driver used on portable alarm, buzzer, digital clock and watches because its simple structure and ability to creative very high pitch noise while using very little power. E1008 is also not the first headphone to use a piezoelectric ceramic+ dynamic drivers configuration, that belongs to Radius Japan's flagship IEM almost a year ahead. 1more is the however the first to use it on earbud. Lastly, burn-in should have little to no effect on piezoelectric ceramic driver, because it doesn't have a soft / non-rigid construction (diaphragm) that can 'loosen' over time.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

haiku said:


> The EO1008 sounds much more like a precision instrument, plus it has way more headroom up north and down south of the frequency spectrum. The mids sound congested right now, but I guess they´ll open up after a while. EO320 still sound more analogue at the moment.....


 
  
  
 Are you talking about the 1More E1008? If so, Can you give an Impression / comparison to PT15, Qian39, Cygnus & Rose Masya if by chance you've listen to them.
  
 Thanks


----------



## Nachash

jasru said:


> Kek.
> 11.11 order from the_one_who_shouldn't_be_named is still in China. ePacket.


 

 Well, the black **** was bought from that seller. So it makes sense
 Quote:


audionewbi3 said:


> Heads-up to those who cant get a proper fit from the **** PT15's.
> 
> Basically, the driver face is almost the same size as the Mojito. So I just used VE rubber rings and then put monk+ thin foams on them. Perfect fit just like the Mojito.
> 
> ...


 
 I bought two pairs because the silver one was cheaper on 11.11. I'm curious to hear if there's an actual difference between the two (so I'm not gonna listen to my silver one yet)


----------



## AudioNewbi3

nachash said:


> I bought two pairs because the silver one was cheaper on 11.11. I'm curious to hear if there's an actual difference between the two (so I'm not gonna listen to my silver one yet)


 
 Mate, if I am not wrong, the color option for the senfers only represent a switch in cable options, not the bud themselves. Any color aside from silver means the **** comes with copper cable whilst silver options mean silver cable.


----------



## golov17

Pics from russian forum


----------



## Ira Delphic

audionewbi3 said:


> nachash said:
> 
> 
> > I bought two pairs because the silver one was cheaper on 11.11. I'm curious to hear if there's an actual difference between the two (so I'm not gonna listen to my silver one yet)
> ...


 
  
 I have both - the black (copper) and silver colored cable. I can't tell the difference as far as sq goes. But the silver looks better.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

ira delphic said:


> I have both - the black (copper) and silver colored cable. I can't tell the difference as far as sq goes. But the silver looks better.


 
 I am planning to make a custom cable for it anyways, so it should be fine. 

 I am contemplating on whether or not should I get a 2nd pair of pt15 as spares as they are just that good for the price.

 Listened to 3 whole albums with them (Joe Hisaishi and Ryuuichi Sakamoto), no fatigue whatsoever. Perhaps because they are warmer and less analytical than the Mojitos.


----------



## Nachash

audionewbi3 said:


> Mate, if I am not wrong, the color option for the senfers only represent a switch in cable options, not the bud themselves. Any color aside from silver means the **** comes with copper cable whilst silver options mean silver cable.


 

 of course, but I'm wondering if there's a real difference between silver cables and non-silver ones. And if I can hear it.


----------



## vapman

nachash said:


> of course, but I'm wondering if there's a real difference between silver cables and non-silver ones. And if I can hear it.




You can hear the difference. When it is copper versus pure silver. How much difference it makes to the sound, depends on the driver. It's usually not huge changes but it can atfect things in interesting ways


Reminds me i have not ordered my replacement pt15 yet...


----------



## Moscow

Ok, looks like I have to go with Stardust. Got a deal about $130. Rose does't look like my type of buds but  I'll check them out later. Campfred is $180 including $40 shipping what seems unreasonable for me. Edimun and Red De'mun folks just do not answer to any messages about shipping.


----------



## emptymt

moscow said:


> Ok, looks like I have to go with Stardust. Got a deal about $130. Rose does't look like my type of buds but  I'll check them out later. Campfred is $180 including $40 shipping what seems unreasonable for me. Edimun and Red De'mun folks just do not answer to any messages about shipping.


 
 u won't regret it mate, I never tried all those buds that u mentioned, however I've been using the stardust for a while for all media purpose, and it certainly never disappoint.


----------



## Moscow

emptymt said:


> u won't regret it mate, I never tried all those buds that u mentioned, however I've been using the stardust for a while for all media purpose, and it certainly never disappoint.




Thx. At the very beginning of a big earbuds journey I have to start with something reliable.


----------



## vapman

anyone wants some free stickers, should pm me a mailing address 
  
 (yeah  i will send int'l, and the offer's for this thread only until i say otherwise~)
  
 But I don't wanna take the thread off topic which is why you should pm me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 SASE are appreciated


----------



## emptymt

moscow said:


> Thx. At the very beginning of a big earbuds journey I have to start with something reliable.


 
 my journey:
 baldoor e100 -> ve monk + -> shozy stardust(big jump here, but totally worth it)
  
 $5 to like $150+ LOL
  
 Earbuds are so reliable and comfortable, for many media purposes, I think every audiophile needs to have one, hehe


----------



## vapman

WALNUT is an awesome DAP. walnut and e808+


----------



## rggz

emptymt said:


> my journey:
> baldoor e100 -> ve monk + -> shozy stardust(big jump here, but totally worth it)
> 
> $5 to like $150+ LOL
> ...


 

 Very similar journey, haha! I've started being a fan of earbuds with the E100 "meme" on reddit.

 I never found an earbud vocal/cymbals specialist without sacrificing bass as my original E100, perhaps Cygnus is close but with a different taste. Do you have that feeling stardust is a good upgrade? Reading this thread I just want to try Stardust or CAX black, but, cardas cable make it a bit overpriced, so won't happen for now.


----------



## slim311

most of my 11.11 orders finally showed up (along with a package from the fs/ft forum), here's some initial OOTB impressions from rockboxed Clip+ (I am a newb to earbuds, only had Monk+ prior, so take these with a grain of salt):



original Monk: I thought I liked Monk+ until I heard these... to my ears, better in virtually every way. can't wait to listen to these some more
Qian39: DAT BASS! seriously though, I love the bass on these, the smaller shells are super comfortable, and these might be my favorite of the bunch
Qian25: non-offensive neutral-ish signature, nothing either great or glaring about these, just a solid set of buds
Boarseman K25/K25S: similar tonal signature, K25S slightly bassier? not quite sure how I feel about these yet, but they do look great with the red or clear blue shells (EDIT: I had this backwards, after further review K25 is def bassier, and has a v-shaped sound relative to the neutral by comparison K25S)
Fareal 64: good clarity, but an odd midbass hump? gonna burn these in and see what, if anything, changes
Meizu EP-21/EP-21HD: oddly enough, these are close to the top for me, as it stands now...bassy signature, but not overwhelming, EP-21HD definitely sounds more "HD" as compared to EP-21, same sound sig, just some more clarity to my ears (or maybe just a bit brighter? too early to tell), pretty good for some $3 throw-ins I ordered only for the android-compatible 3-button mic
Mrice/Baldoor E100A: not sure which version of these I have, as it says Mrice on the box and Baldoor on the plug...either way, not a huge fan, mostly because I couldn't get a good fit for my life

still waiting on: TY Hi-Z HP32, Fareal 32

EDIT: I also got this ROCK splitter: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ROCK-Stereo-Headphone-Microphone-Audio-Y-Splitter-Cable-3-5mm-Adapter-Plug-Jack-Cord-Alloy-1/32675201160.html ... cloth covered cable, metal connectors at both ends and the split, and a metal spring strain relief on the plug, very nice!


----------



## music4mhell

Congratulations all for 1000+ pages 
 Let the EARBUDS legacy continue !!


----------



## emptymt

music4mhell said:


> Congratulations all for 1000+ pages
> Let the EARBUDS legacy continue !!


 
 lol, many earbud lovers here.


----------



## rockingthearies

vapman said:


> WALNUT is an awesome DAP. walnut and e808+



Is it a very bassy dap? I am currently using my lg v20 as a dap. Would it be considered as an upgrade just for audio purposes? I would prefer a DAC but that walnut looks good.


----------



## alizeofeniquito

can anyone compare qian39 to tyhiz32 without using foams on both?


----------



## vapman

rockingthearies said:


> Is it a very bassy dap? I am currently using my lg v20 as a dap. Would it be considered as an upgrade just for audio purposes? I would prefer a DAC but that walnut looks good.


 
 It is very pleasantly bassy for a DAP with no EQ! sounds killer, i have LG V10 and lots of high end gear but this can hang with the rest for sure
  
 enjoying mostly Red Demun, Asura 2.0, Qian39, E808+ with it


----------



## golov17

http://www.head-fi.org/t/620467/blox-earbuds-discussion-tm7-m2c-anv3-be3-be5-be7/990#post_13070618


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/620467/blox-earbuds-discussion-tm7-m2c-anv3-be3-be5-be7/990#post_13070618


 
 big bass hmm??


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> big bass hmm??


✋


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> ✋


 
 congrats on 3909 posts golov!


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> congrats on 3909 posts golov!


Hmm.. a lot.. lol


----------



## Raketen

vapman said:


> congrats on 3909 posts golov!




how many posts = arp odyssey?


----------



## Danneq

moscow said:


> Ok, looks like I have to go with Stardust. Got a deal about $130. Rose does't look like my type of buds but  I'll check them out later. Campfred is $180 including $40 shipping what seems unreasonable for me. Edimun and Red De'mun folks just do not answer to any messages about shipping.


 
 The soundstage on Mojito is bigger than on CampFred. Other than that CampFred is better, to my ears, in just about every other aspect. Mainly the more natural and analogue sound of CampFred is great for extended listening. I could never listen more than 30 minutes to my Mojitos...
  
CampFred is $150 if you buy them directly from Cypherus. It seems like Indonesian sellers are limited in their choice of international shipping and EMS is the cheapest (!) option. So shipping is $35-40. That makes it around $190 for CampFred and a great alternative to Mojito.
  
 Edimun V3 and Red De'mun are about $65-70 and then shipping with EMS is $35-40. I think it's definitely worth it since both are great. I will try to compare them more to CampFred later, but I can say that Edimun V3 is like a baby VE Zen 1 with an energetic sound and deep bass (not as deep as on Zen 1, the bass champion of earbuds, but still really good).
 Red De'mun sounds very much like Sennheiser MX985 but with a more engaging sound (MX985 can be a bit too neutral for me sometimes). There's a little bit of Blox TM7 in there as well. Not as effortless and laid back as TM7, but still a little bit in the direction of TM7's presentation. I'd say that Red De'mun is about 80-85% MX985 and 15-20% of TM7.
 The cables on Edimun V3 and Red De'mun are a bit stiff and it can be difficult for some to keep them in place in the ears.
  
 Edimun V3 and Red De'mun are almost on the same level as Zen 1, MX985 and TM7. I personally think that CampFred is a little bit better than all of them. The sound is overall more full on CampFred without sacrificing detail.
  
 I will probably buy Stardust in January.


----------



## Moscow

Penon got new Rose Masya for less
Rose Masya Dual Dynamic Driver Flat-Head Hi-Fi Audiophile Earphone Earbud
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/32778391829/32778391829.html


----------



## golov17

moscow said:


> Penon got new Rose Masya for less
> Rose Masya Dual Dynamic Driver Flat-Head Hi-Fi Audiophile Earphone Earbud
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/32778391829/32778391829.html


not new


----------



## Moscow




----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> Edimun V3 and Red De'mun are about $65-70 and then shipping with EMS is $35-40. I think it's definitely worth it since both are great. I will try to compare them more to CampFred later,


 
  
 And to CAX please.


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> And to CAX please.


 


 Sure. In this thread or in the Cypherus thread?

 I did actually compare the Indonesian fantastic five (CAX black, CampFred, QFred, Edimun V3 and Red De'mun) the day before yesterday but I have not gathered my thoughts about them completely yet. Might do some more comparing before I write it down. But I want to try to keep it short and not go into detail too much. I'll just focus on stuff like soundstage, bass, mids, treble, details & instrument separation etc...


----------



## vapman

moscow said:


>


 
 different seller does not mean  a different product!
  


raketen said:


> how many posts = arp odyssey?


  






 2800, 2810-2815, and 2820-2823


----------



## JASru

VX and K's 64 are in my post! Finally!
 Gotta rush to post office after my working hours.
 Wish me luck!


----------



## Moscow

Penon confirms Masya is absolutely the same. But since it set for vocals I'll go with Stardust.


----------



## golov17

jasru said:


> VX and K's 64 are in my post! Finally!
> 
> Gotta rush to post office after my working hours.
> 
> Wish me luck!


go-go


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> Sure. In this thread or in the Cypherus thread?
> 
> I did actually compare the Indonesian fantastic five (CAX black, CampFred, QFred, Edimun V3 and Red De'mun) the day before yesterday but I have not gathered my thoughts about them completely yet. Might do some more comparing before I write it down. But I want to try to keep it short and not go into detail too much. I'll just focus on stuff like soundstage, bass, mids, treble, details & instrument separation etc...


 
 I follow both threads so your choice and no problem, take your time.
  
 What's already interesting to me - spending around $90 (delivered) for Edimun or De'mun gets you in fact into $130-$200 earbuds sound quality level.


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> I follow both threads so your choice and no problem, take your time.
> 
> *What's already interesting to me - spending around $90 (delivered) for Edimun or De'mun gets you in fact into $130-$200 earbuds sound quality level.*


 
 As an owner of both these are really the two best bargains in high end buds.


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> What's already interesting to me - spending around $90 (delivered) for Edimun or De'mun gets you in fact into $130-$200 earbuds sound quality level.


 
  


vapman said:


> As an owner of both these are really the two best bargains in high end buds.


 


 Both punch way above their price level. Even with $35-40 in shipping costs they are totaly worth it. I think that CampFred is worth $190 with shipping costs, compared to stuff like Mojito or Celsus Gramo One, but if the shipping costs or the price was a bit lower so that the total cost was $150-160 it would be better.
 But the Cypherus earbud releases are more limited than Red De'mun and Edimun V3, I think. As I understand it, neither CampFred or QFred have had more than 100 pairs made, probably less.

 I don't know how those Indonesians do it, but they sure can mod and make earbuds to make them sound amazing!


----------



## Moscow

Asked edimun and De'mun guys about shipping - no answer for a week.


----------



## Danneq

moscow said:


> Asked edimun and De'mun guys about shipping - no answer for a week.


 


 Through their Facebook pages or through e-mail?

 I didn't have much problem buying Edimun V3. I bought my Red De'mun from another head fier so I have no experience of communication with De'mun...


----------



## Tomasz2D

moscow said:


> Asked edimun and De'mun guys about shipping - no answer for a week.


 
 For De'mun try to contact "allegrosurf (at) gmail.com"


----------



## Moscow

Contacted both email and FB


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> As an owner of both these are really the two best bargains in high end buds.


 


danneq said:


> Both punch way above their price level. Even with $35-40 in shipping costs they are totaly worth it. I think that CampFred is worth $190 with shipping costs, compared to stuff like Mojito or Celsus Gramo One, but if the shipping costs or the price was a bit lower so that the total cost was $150-160 it would be better.


 
  
 And it could be even bigger bargain if they could sort out that expensive shipping cost. I wonder if they cannot ship it via registered air-mail or don't want to. Is it because standard air-mail Indonesian postal service is unreliable or they have some law regulations that force them to use EMS for international shipments? I don't know.
  
 And I really wish Cypherus could level to Edimun / De'mun prices. That would make them more popular. Earbuds at $150-$200 - they are for real connoisseurs. Or maybe that's the way they shoud be?


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> And it could be even bigger bargain if they could sort out that expensive shipping cost. I wonder if they cannot ship it via registered air-mail or don't want to. Is it because standard air-mail Indonesian postal service is unreliable or they have some law regulations that force them to use EMS for international shipments? I don't know.
> 
> And I really wish Cypherus could level to Edimun / De'mun prices. That would make them more popular. Earbuds at $150-$200 - they are for real connoisseurs. Or maybe that's the way they shoud be?


 
 Iriyan told me they had to ship EMS due to trade laws making selling outside of the country needlessly difficult. He also told me that "soon" the laws will become more lenient and it will be easier to sell outside the country, that was probably half a year ago and I haven't asked him once how things have progressed on that matter.


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> And it could be even bigger bargain if they could sort out that expensive shipping cost. I wonder if they cannot ship it via registered air-mail or don't want to. Is it because standard air-mail Indonesian postal service is unreliable or they have some law regulations that force them to use EMS for international shipments? I don't know.
> 
> And I really wish Cypherus could level to Edimun / De'mun prices. That would make them more popular. Earbuds at $150-$200 - they are for real connoisseurs. Or maybe that's the way they shoud be?




Like vapman writes it is probably because of laws.

Cypherus is pretty much a one man company and I'm impressed by the high production rate. Still it is exclusive since the number of earbuds made are so limited. I do not mind paying $200 for good sounding earbuds since I don't really have other hobbies that cost money...


----------



## Tomasz2D

moscow said:


> Contacted both email and FB


 
 Please bear in mind these are just small workshops, these people probably may do something else for living and audio stuff may be just their part-time job or even hobby rather so it may take time. Also they make these earbuds in short series and at one point there may be no more. On Red De'mun box it is writen "limited edition" and it may be real limited edition (not like in Massdrop where they make limited editions and then limited editions of already limited editions).


----------



## Moscow

Sure know that. It's like our company - me and my wife.


----------



## music4mhell

moscow said:


> Sure know that. It's like our company - me and my wife.


 
 ** I and my wife


----------



## Saoshyant

...my wife and I.


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> ** I and my wife


 
  
  


saoshyant said:


> ...my wife and I.


 


 So all 3 of you run companies with your wives?


----------



## Willber

Actually, 'me and my wife' is correct in this context. The association between the *subject *[company] and the *objects *[me and my wife] is implied but present (e.g. 'It's like our company _[which is run by]_ me and my wife.') . Therefore the *objective pronoun* [me] is correct.


----------



## rockingthearies

english-fi hahahaha this community is really amusing! No regrets joining. The only regret is my wallet.


----------



## Moscow

Well, I got it right? Don't really know grammar.
Me, myself and I.


----------



## vapman

moscow said:


> Well, I got it right? Don't really know grammar.
> Me, myself and I.


 
 It might not be proper "by the books" to say "me and my wife" but 90% of English speakers would. Finishing sentences with "...and I" is for grammar nerds!


----------



## Willber

vapman said:


> moscow said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I got it right? Don't really know grammar.
> ...


 
 But it is proper, as per my post above...
 (Yes, my job is grammar nerd!)


----------



## Willber

moscow said:


> Well, I got it right?


 
 Yup.


----------



## Saoshyant

Depends on school of thought, kind of like the oxford comma.


----------



## Frederick Wang

if memory serves me right, "my wife and I" is grammatically immaculate in accordance with prescriptivism school, while "me and my wife" would be held as correct by descriptivism school.

So we got earbuds, we got English grammar, what more can you want from a thread?


----------



## Willber

frederick wang said:


> if memory serves me right, "my wife and I" is grammatically immaculate in accordance with prescriptivism school, while "me and my wife" would be held as correct by descriptivism school.


 
  
 Not in this case. The use of subjective and objective pronouns is quite clear as described in my earlier post (ref. The OED and Fowler's Modern English Usage).
  
 Not that it matters a great deal...


----------



## haiku

moscow said:


> Me, myself and I.


 

 Uh, I see we have a Joan Armatrading Fan here.


----------



## Willber

haiku said:


> moscow said:
> 
> 
> > Me, myself and I.
> ...


 
 Thanks for the reminder, I was going to look up some of her music last week but forgot.


----------



## haiku

willber said:


> Thanks for the reminder, I was going to look up some of her music last week but forgot.


 
  

 You´re welcome. I´m a big fan myself.


----------



## Danneq

And for you who like (thrash) metal...

  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Cyperus

tomasz2d said:


> And it could be even bigger bargain if they could sort out that expensive shipping cost. I wonder if they cannot ship it via registered air-mail or don't want to. Is it because standard air-mail Indonesian postal service is unreliable or they have some law regulations that force them to use EMS for international shipments? I don't know.
> 
> And I really wish Cypherus could level to Edimun / De'mun prices. That would make them more popular. Earbuds at $150-$200 - they are for real connoisseurs. Or maybe that's the way they shoud be?




For those who don't mind waiting there is another option thru Registered air mail. They said is between 14 to 30 days. Cost is around USD 15 to 20.


----------



## Tomasz2D

frederick wang said:


> So we got earbuds, we got English grammar, what more can you want from a thread?


 
 In fact I am mainly on this thread to polish my Polish... I mean English. I only pretend that I am interested in earbuds and in this way I learn new vocabulary every day, like for example from this sentence:
  
 "Seahf 32 is a gosh darned razor blade treble murder machine with no mids and hardly any bass except a mid bass hump."
  
 I've learned how to order a shaving in proper English:
  
 "Please barber, use your darned razor blade machine and shave my beard with a mid hump but try to not murder me. Thank you."


----------



## Moscow

cyperus said:


> For those who don't mind waiting there is another option thru Registered air mail. They said is between 14 to 30 days. Cost is around USD 15 to 20.




I'm in if $15.


----------



## Saoshyant

So, what's everyone's current favorite earbud? I know I feel utterly enamoured with the Masya, and haven't been able to enjoy anything else as much since getting it. It's as close to my preferred sonic sig as an earbud has gotten so far. Could just be new toy excitement however.


----------



## leobigfield

Guys, how much do you think a used Senn OMX980 is worth these days?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

saoshyant said:


> So, what's everyone's current favorite earbud? I know I feel utterly enamoured with the Masya, and haven't been able to enjoy anything else as much since getting it. It's as close to my preferred sonic sig as an earbud has gotten so far. Could just be new toy excitement however.


 
 1) ROSE MOJITO
 2) SEAHF 320OHM V1 or **** PT15
 3) CYGNUS


----------



## Frederick Wang

tomasz2d said:


> In fact I am mainly on this thread to polish my Polish... I mean English.
> 
> 
> I've learned how to order a shaving in proper English:
> ...


 
 Personally I wouldn't use my English that polished before I trust my head with someone who has a blade as polished... 
  
 As for the earbud part, got 6 budget earbuds (SHE3800, E808+, Qian39, HY1S, and 2 DIY ones)  arrived in the last few days, among which, HY1S gave me a very positive surprise, but haven't seen it discussed here before. Will post more after I get my Zishan dsd back.


----------



## fleasbaby

moscow said:


> Well, I got it right? Don't really know grammar.
> Me, myself and I.


 
  
 Hehehehe...


----------



## Tomasz2D

cyperus said:


> For those who don't mind waiting there is another option thru Registered air mail. They said is between 14 to 30 days. Cost is around USD 15 to 20.


 
 Thanks Herry, good to know we have a choice.


----------



## tintheman

frederick wang said:


> Personally I wouldn't use my English that polished before I trust my head with someone who has a blade as polished...
> 
> As for the earbud part, got 6 budget earbuds (SHE3800, E808+, Qian39, HY1S, and 2 DIY ones)  arrived in the last few days, among which, HY1S gave me a very positive surprise, but haven't seen it discussed here before. Will post more after I get my Zishan dsd back.


 
 Sorry, which one is HY1S?


----------



## Willber

tintheman said:


> frederick wang said:
> 
> 
> > Personally I wouldn't use my English that polished before I trust my head with someone who has a blade as polished...
> ...


 
 Same question. Perhaps it's the new Hi-Z 32s?


----------



## Tomasz2D

saoshyant said:


> So, what's everyone's current favorite earbud? I know I feel utterly enamoured with the Masya, and haven't been able to enjoy anything else as much since getting it. It's as close to my preferred sonic sig as an earbud has gotten so far. Could just be new toy excitement however.


 
 Can you describe Masya's sound in few words compared to your MX985? Also, how is build quality of your Masya?


----------



## Father Time

Anyone know how or where to buy the Red De'mun earbuds? I've emailed allegrosurf@gmail.com twice with no response.
  
 I''m new to the forum and just order my first buds, the Monk plus! Can't wait.


----------



## Tomasz2D

tintheman said:


> Sorry, which one is HY1S?


 
https://world.taobao.com/item/537357032387.htm


----------



## JASru

Guys, is K's 500 similar in terms of sound signature to K's 64? I really like K's 64 out of the box.


----------



## Tomasz2D

father time said:


> Anyone know how or where to buy the Red De'mun earbuds? I've emailed allegrosurf@gmail.com twice with no response.


 
 I only used above e-mail to contact them. I have just sent them a message, let's see if I will receive any reply.


----------



## Willber

father time said:


> Anyone know how or where to buy the Red De'mun earbuds? I've emailed allegrosurf@gmail.com twice with no response.
> 
> I''m new to the forum and just order my first buds, the Monk plus! Can't wait.


 
  
 Welcome to the forum. If you are interested in finding some quality bargains then have a look at this thread:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds


----------



## kfarndog

tomasz2d said:


> Can you describe Masya's sound in few words compared to your MX985? Also, how is build quality of your Masya?


 
 I have been happy with the build and sound of my Masya.  Phenomenal once you find a source that fits with its signature.


----------



## Frederick Wang

tintheman said:


> Sorry, which one is HY1S?


 
  


willber said:


> Same question. Perhaps it's the new Hi-Z 32s?


 
  


tomasz2d said:


> https://world.taobao.com/item/537357032387.htm


 
 This one. High ohm version of HY1 which Clieos put in the contender category.


----------



## Fabi

jasru said:


> Guys, is K's 500 similar in terms of sound signature to K's 64? I really like K's 64 out of the box.


 
 I'd say yes. I bought K's 500 because I found K's 64 soung sig to my liking.
 K's 500 has a more refined sound but requires a lot of power if you want to hear them at their best.


----------



## Tonx

jasru said:


> Guys, is K's 500 similar in terms of sound signature to K's 64? I really like K's 64 out of the box.


 
 Do you have black or white version?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

tomasz2d said:


> https://world.taobao.com/item/537357032387.htm


 
  
 Great, now I have to find out where to buy an HY1S.


 I uses the same shell as the DIY Earbuds I have by Wong Kuan Wae:


  
 --


----------



## JASru

tonx said:


> Do you have black or white version?


 White.


fabi said:


> I'd say yes. I bought K's 500 because I found K's 64 soung sig to my liking.
> K's 500 has a more refined sound but requires a lot of power if you want to hear them at their best.


 Power is unlikely to be the problem - got Fiio A5. Thx for reply.


----------



## vapman

father time said:


> Anyone know how or where to buy the Red De'mun earbuds? I've emailed allegrosurf@gmail.com twice with no response.
> 
> I''m new to the forum and just order my first buds, the Monk plus! Can't wait.


 
 Give em a couple days and message on em facebook if you have it. de'mun custom cable. It's a one man operation so dude might be on vacation and not checking email for all we know


----------



## Father Time

> Give em a couple days and message on em facebook if you have it. de'mun custom cable. It's a one man operation so dude might be on vacation and not checking email for all we know


 
 Thanks vapman, will do.


----------



## To.M

**** PT15 (black cable) have landed!  

First of all, I must say the build quality is truly awesome. As for SQ, well, after a few songs I like what I hear, they can be described as balanced, clear, detailed and airy. To tell the truth, I can't agree with some opinions that they have no bass, ok they are no bass monsters indeed, but to call them treble monster is rather too much (at least for my ears ). However, they can become non-bass when you cover the vents at their backs with you fingers so check them properly if they are fully open  

I was rather convinced that I would sell them soon after getting them but hell no, they are going to stay with me  ok let them play music all night now...

Benjie S5 and PT15 pair up nicely!


----------



## Fabi

cyperus said:


> For those who don't mind waiting there is another option thru Registered air mail. They said is between 14 to 30 days. Cost is around USD 15 to 20.



Well, the only time I bought something from Indonesia shipped overseas with registered airmail, it came surprisingly in two weeks. But it was just an $10 order  
It can be good for those who want to pay cheaper shipping fees. 
Other feedback, anyone ?


----------



## Raketen

saoshyant said:


> So, what's everyone's current favorite earbud? I know I feel utterly enamoured with the Masya, and haven't been able to enjoy anything else as much since getting it. It's as close to my preferred sonic sig as an earbud has gotten so far. Could just be new toy excitement however.




For me, I think VE Zen 2, but I only have three non-included earbuds atm (Zen2, Stardust and TKY2). Actually in retrospect Zen is more fun but I kind of prefer the CM707 being a little more suited to low volume listening but I sold it so can't really claim it's my favorite :confused_face:

If Stardust doesn't grow on me I'm thinking of trying to trade for Maysa or Mojito or 650. TKY2 is odd to me but it sounds so good with vocal acoustic music I think I will keep it, even though I don't generally like genre specialized sounding headphones.


----------



## vapman

My favorites right now......
  

Red De'mun
Asura 2.0
E808+/E828


----------



## Townyj

father time said:


> Anyone know how or where to buy the Red De'mun earbuds? I've emailed allegrosurf@gmail.com twice with no response.
> 
> I''m new to the forum and just order my first buds, the Monk plus! Can't wait.


 
  
 Quote:


father time said:


> Thanks vapman, will do.


 

 I originally bought my Red Demun through Rholupat, he has a website and is friends with the Demun maker. Looks like he has sold out though, wouldnt hurt to send him a msg. Might be able to source a pair for you, i paid $12 shipping through him.
  
 Also if anyone wants a pair of Edimun V3, keep an eye out on Indonesia Earbud Lovers FB page. Was alot easier purchasing off a reseller there then actually getting ahold of the Maker, via his Website.


----------



## jescereal

to.m said:


> **** PT15 (black cable) have landed!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I agree! The PT15 is *phenomenal*! I also absolutely do not agree with the highs being too much. I think they're a bit rolled off. The high mids though are sharp without foams, but the donut foam covers eliminate them. Coming from a UE900s, the bass from the PT15 is more than sufficient. I can hear the bass lines and kick drums perfectly clearly. I prefer my **** UES and PT15 more than my UE900s.


----------



## vapman

I can't imagine thinking PT15 as rolled off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There must be no earbuds to suit your treble preferences except maybe Seahf 32?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

audionewbi3 said:


> Heads-up to those who cant get a proper fit from the **** PT15's.
> 
> Basically, the driver face is almost the same size as the Mojito. So I just used VE rubber rings and then put monk+ thin foams on them. Perfect fit just like the Mojito.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


audionewbi3 said:


> Received my **** PT15's today.
> 
> However, I only put in a coupled of songs worth of time into it as I was enjoying my Rose Hybird 8 which I bought together with the PT15's.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


to.m said:


> **** PT15 (black cable) have landed!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


jescereal said:


> I agree! The PT15 is *phenomenal*! I also absolutely do not agree with the highs being too much. I think they're a bit rolled off. The high mids though are sharp without foams, but the donut foam covers eliminate them. Coming from a UE900s, the bass from the PT15 is more than sufficient. I can hear the bass lines and kick drums perfectly clearly. I prefer my **** UES and PT15 more than my UE900s.


 
  
 Welcome to the club mates!
  


vapman said:


> I can't imagine thinking PT15 as rolled off
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Highs of the PT15 are what I would call smooth and detailed, BUT, they do not extend as far as the Mojito, still quite good.


----------



## vapman

I don't disagree at all about them being smooth and detailed, but they are very very close to piercing to me! I know you are much more of a treble fan than I, you'd never start cutting your EQ at 8k


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> I can't imagine thinking PT15 as rolled off :eek:  There must be no earbuds to suit your treble preferences except maybe Seahf 32?


+100


----------



## music4mhell

A little off topic !
  
 I took a FQ test online and i got to know that i can't hear anything above 12K Hz.
 Is it normal or i am loosing my hearing capability ? I am 29 by da way !
  
 Thanks in advance !


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> A little off topic !
> 
> I took a FQ test online and i got to know that i can't hear anything above 12K Hz.
> Is it normal or i am loosing my hearing capability ? I am 29 by da way !
> ...


 
 If you want to be sure about that, load up Audacity and generate a sine sweep from 11KHz up to say 20KHz and see where your hearing will cut off. A generated sine wave will be better than any heavily compressed sine from an online test...


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > A little off topic !
> ...


 
 Thanks, but in general at age of 30, is it ok to loose the hearing at 12K Hz ?


----------



## Raketen

music4mhell said:


> Thanks, but in general at age of 30, is it ok to loose the hearing at 12K Hz ?




that's a bit low, I'm a little older and can still hear most of 16-17k which i was told is normalish


----------



## Father Time

townyj said:


> I originally bought my Red Demun through Rholupat, he has a website and is friends with the Demun maker. Looks like he has sold out though, wouldnt hurt to send him a msg. Might be able to source a pair for you, i paid $12 shipping through him.
> 
> Also if anyone wants a pair of Edimun V3, keep an eye out on Indonesia Earbud Lovers FB page. Was alot easier purchasing off a reseller there then actually getting ahold of the Maker, via his Website.


 

 Thanks Townyj. I emailed Rholupat. I also checked out the Indonesian earbud lovers facebook page ( can't understand a thing, but interesting page)!


----------



## Sempenyi

If you guys interested in duo demun you should probably try the crows and tunes earbud. Pretty often to be compared with the demun.

https://allaboutiem.wordpress.com/2016/08/13/crow-vs-red-demun-duo-borneo/

http://www.head-fi.org/t/814358/crow-audio-signature-edition-review


----------



## rockingthearies

music4mhell said:


> A little off topic !
> 
> I took a FQ test online and i got to know that i can't hear anything above 12K Hz.
> Is it normal or i am loosing my hearing capability ? I am 29 by da way !
> ...



Have you tried turning up the volume as the frequency goes up, I am 12 years younger than you. But i realise at 18-20khz I have to crank up the volume to listen to that frequency.


----------



## music4mhell

raketen said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks, but in general at age of 30, is it ok to loose the hearing at 12K Hz ?
> ...


 
 I just checked, i can't hear anything above 11K , Sadd.. Let's see at which age i will start feeling the hearing loss !
 Till that time let me enjoy the music fully !


----------



## Sempenyi

father time said:


> Thanks Townyj. I emailed Rholupat. I also checked out the Indonesian earbud lovers facebook page ( can't understand a thing, but interesting page)!




Just fyi

(https://m.facebook.com/EliAudioIndonesia/)

And

(https://m.facebook.com/groups/468364500011785)

Join the group not the page


----------



## music4mhell

rockingthearies said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > A little off topic !
> ...


 
 I used this link 
 http://onlinetonegenerator.com/hearingtest.html
  
 I didn't increase any volume, that's ok. I just wanted to know opinions from others as every one here is far knowledgeable than me ! No harm in asking !


----------



## Raketen

music4mhell said:


> I just checked, i can't hear anything above 11K , Sadd.. Let's see at which age i will start feeling the hearing loss !
> Till that time let me enjoy the music fully !




Very sorry about this! If you can it might be worthwhile to see a doctor, just to make sure it isn't something else (like an ear infection or wax blockage etc..) At least that range doesnt hurt music too much, unless you listen to a lot of bleeps and bloops.


I should count myself lucky since i work around loud machinery all day.


----------



## leobigfield

music4mhell said:


> I used this link
> http://onlinetonegenerator.com/hearingtest.html
> 
> I didn't increase any volume, that's ok. I just wanted to know opinions from others as every one here is far knowledgeable than me ! No harm in asking !


 
 Look for an audiologist. It's the best way to know for sure.


----------



## Tomasz2D

sempenyi said:


> If you guys interested in duo demun you should probably try the crows and tunes earbud. Pretty often to be compared with the demun.
> 
> https://allaboutiem.wordpress.com/2016/08/13/crow-vs-red-demun-duo-borneo/
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/814358/crow-audio-signature-edition-review


 
 I think Saoshyant here has both of them.


----------



## Tomasz2D

music4mhell said:


> I used this link
> http://onlinetonegenerator.com/hearingtest.html
> 
> I didn't increase any volume, that's ok. I just wanted to know opinions from others as every one here is far knowledgeable than me ! No harm in asking !


 
 Don't worry to soon. If you want to know for sure you would need to take professional hearing test. If you take on-line test - try one in the morning after you wake up and in quitet environment and with peace of mind.


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> A little off topic !
> 
> I took a FQ test online and i got to know that i can't hear anything above 12K Hz.
> Is it normal or i am loosing my hearing capability ? I am 29 by da way !
> ...


 


 I agree with others who say that a test with professional audiologist would be better than an online test. I'll be 40 next year and for the last 20 years I have had tinnitus in my left ear plus a slight loss of hearing after a nasty ear infection. The ear infection cleared after I was prescribed antibiotics. I can deal with the tinnitus but a sad thing is that I can hardly hear crickets at all with my left ear. With the right ear I can hear them clearly but if I block my right ear I only hear the crickets veeeery vaguely.

 By the way, I wonder which frequency wives use when they speak? My wife often complains that I do not listen to her but I think that she sometimes speaks at a frequency that I cannot hear. Might that be possible?


----------



## Danneq

This chart is good by the way:
  







 Interactive version: 
http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm


----------



## JASru

VX Pro is really well-built, the cable looks ok. Not superb, but good enough.

 The sig is V-shaped indeed, but the accent is more on highs then on bass. It really fits violin concerts. I am listening  to Grig's Sonata #3 in C minor. Amazing.
 
If you got PT-15 and looking for a bit more smooth sound + a bit better ( not a leap) bass - VX might be your choice. The sibilance is mostly gone on medium volume.
 
Given their not very fancy pricing - this one is definetely a good choice.
Pack includes foams, clip, velour bag and silicon tips with three gaps/


----------



## Nachash

I can hear up to 19khz on my left ear and around 16-17 on my right one. The downside is that there's like a -0.5db on my left hear between 2khz and 4khz which is really annoying.
  
 I'm 25, songs like Billie Jean are ear piercing for me with some headphones


----------



## vapman

jasru said:


> VX Pro is really well-built, the cable looks ok. Not superb, but good enough.
> 
> The sig is V-shaped indeed, but the accent is more on highs then on bass. It really fits violin concerts. I am listening  to Grig's Sonata #3 in C minor. Amazing.
> 
> ... 
 How does it compare in terms of treble extension and clarity?
 I'm still waiting to buy replacement PT15 to put in different shells... I have all my other shells here!


----------



## Danneq

nachash said:


> I can hear up to 19khz on my left ear and around 16-17 on my right one. The downside is that there's like a -0.5db on my left hear between 2khz and 4khz which is really annoying.
> 
> I'm 25, songs like Billie Jean are ear piercing for me with some headphones


 


 It's strange. I have some hearing loss on my left ear but still I am very sensitive to treble on ear- and headphones. I thought that might be because of the tinnitus in my left ear...


----------



## JASru

vapman said:


> How does it compare in terms of treble extension and clarity?
> I'm still waiting to buy replacement PT15 to put in different shells... I have all my other shells here!


 
 Can't tell about extension, need to check it home (don't have pt-15 nearby), but the clarity is roughly on the same level, maybe a bit better.
 The nickname "Baby Mojito" may be correct, but I never heard Mojito 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The improvement is build, bass and overall tonal balance. On the cons side: no socket for cable replacement and higher price.
 I will check the treble when I get home.


----------



## Areea3W

Hey guys, what do you thing about combo masya+dx50? I want to buy it this week if this combo is good, thanks


----------



## rockingthearies

danneq said:


> This chart is good by the way:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Woah thanks for this picture! Found it really useful nice


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> By the way, I wonder which frequency wives use when they speak? My wife often complains that I do not listen to her but I think that she sometimes speaks at a frequency that I cannot hear. Might that be possible?


 
 We better hear female voices in fact and they much better stand-out from noisy surroundings - that's why these are female voices that are used in virtual assistants like Siri, Cortana, Alexa, Google Now and also female voices are used by default in GPS car navigation systems. 
  
 But in real live women may speak quietly, sometimes on purpose because in this way they want you to pay more attention to them.
  
 Another story are wives - with time husbands develope natural resistence to wives voices. Me too - I hardly hear my wife when she tells me to wash the dishes or clear the floor.


----------



## vapman

Hpm64 shell, qian39 driver, silver cable and blu-tac... More bass and sweeter mids than stock qian39! Actually... It makes stock qian39 sound thin and bassless... Dare i say this is a new level in earbud bass?


----------



## purplesun

music4mhell said:


> I used this link
> http://onlinetonegenerator.com/hearingtest.html
> 
> I didn't increase any volume, that's ok. I just wanted to know opinions from others as every one here is far knowledgeable than me ! No harm in asking !


 
 It's a combination of your hearing range, as well as the frequency response of the equipment (usually earphone/headphone).
 Lots of earbuds tend to tapers off beyond 12k. I just tested 20-20k frequency sweep on Foobar2k with my Cresyn E700 earbud, that got just over 12k. But with **** 4in1 IEM I got up to around 15k.
 You should conduct the hearing sweep test again with the most trebly earbud/IEM/headphone that you have.


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> My favorites right now......
> 
> 
> Red De'mun
> ...


 
 You know, it's funny because I have tried so many earbuds already but not Asura. Why? I've seen opinions that Asura is like Monk Plus and if one has Monk Plus there is no need to own Asura. Or that this just a "vocal earbud" and I am not into pure vocal music really. But my experiance is that all these so called "vocal" earbuds are bloody good for many other genres. I think I must put Asura 2.0 on my wishlist.


----------



## Shinry

music4mhell said:


> I used this link
> http://onlinetonegenerator.com/hearingtest.html
> 
> I didn't increase any volume, that's ok. I just wanted to know opinions from others as every one here is far knowledgeable than me ! No harm in asking !


 
 +1 on the equipment.
 Got to 13k with my old QPAD QH-85 and to 17k with the VJJB K4 (though I had to gradually *DE*crease the volume since high tones hurt my ears a lot)


----------



## Tomasz2D

kfarndog said:


> I have been happy with the build and sound of my Masya.  Phenomenal once you find a source that fits with its signature.


 
 So why do you like Masya and for what music do you use it mostly?


----------



## Moscow

tomasz2d said:


> So why do you like Masya and for what music do you use it mostly?



Manufacturer says Masya set for vocals. That's why I skip it looking for all-around buds


----------



## Saoshyant

@Tomasz2D I will try to get to the comparison of the Masya & MX985 soon.  MX985 is being borrowed by a co worker currently, so will get them back fairly soon.
  
@Sempenyi I have to second the Crow as an option as it just sounds lovely with vocals.  I know a lot of people love the Red Demun as well, but I find the cable's stiffness to be troublesome as I have a difficult time achieving a good fit.  I can listen to it using hooks, but I'll have to see about cutting a small slit in some foams to try to fit over it to see if that helps even more.


----------



## SuperMAG

I am thinking of buying pt15 for its impressive clarity, separation and soundstage as mentioned by many here and very cheap price at 12usd and detachable cables. as i feel it will provide more for me then the 4in1 bar the bass quantity but people used eq to fix that. 
  
 I already gave my ty hiz 32 v1 *good earbud overall* and kz atr *extremely boring and non interesting sound* to my sisters as i have monk+, piston2 and 4in1, i was wondering if i should also buy the quin39 as they are hyped alot these days, how are quin39 compared to monk+ and **** pt15.


----------



## Saoshyant

@Tomasz2D Some examples of bands I like with Masya (using rockboxed xDuoo X3, varying amounts of bass eq depending on type of music):  
  
 Nobuo Uematsu, Portishead, Foo Fighters, Radiohead, Muse, Beck, How to Destroy Angels, The Flaming Lips, Rachmaninoff, IAMX, Childish Gambino, VNV Nation...
  
 Honestly, I think it's a decent jack of all trades that does quite well with vocals.  It has enough bass for music like Trip Hop which makes me happy, but of course we're not talking basshead levels or anything, but enough that the music doesn't feel lacking.  I'm sure depending on tastes & experience, it could be a great earbud or could just end up being something that doesn't grab your attention.


----------



## JASru

supermag said:


> I am thinking of buying pt15 for its impressive clarity, separation and soundstage as mentioned by many here and very cheap price at 12usd and detachable cables. as i feel it will provide more for me then the 4in1 bar the bass quantity but people used eq to fix that.
> 
> I already gave my ty hiz 32 v1 *good earbud overall* and kz atr *extremely boring and non interesting sound* to my sisters as i have monk+, piston2 and 4in1, i was wondering if i should also buy the quin39 as they are hyped alot these days, how are quin39 compared to monk+ and **** pt15.


 
 Qians (39)  are one of the best in performance/price/versatility ratio.
 No matter how much I like TP-16, they are more expensive while being only a bit better in default cabling and (arguably) overal tonal balance ( it is more neutral, which I do like).
 **** is surely a notable one, but without eq it's an RX-1 with accent shifted from mids to highs imo.


----------



## teston

tomasz2d said:


> You know, it's funny because I have tried so many earbuds already but not Asura. Why? I've seen opinions that Asura is like Monk Plus and if one has Monk Plus there is no need to own Asura. Or that this just a "vocal earbud" and I am not into pure vocal music really. But my experiance is that all these so called "vocal" earbuds are bloody good for many other genres. I think I must put Asura 2.0 on my wishlist.



If we talk about the ve family only, I would say that it's more like original monk with smoother tone and better extension. It is even more similar and closer to eo320.
The monk+ is however has thinner mid and its high mid peak that sound harsh to my ear(not sibilance) with some vocal songs, narrower soundstage and the treb is not well extended(or too smooth for my liking).


----------



## smith

Quick question regarding the Red De'mun  how easy or not (iPhone 6s+ source) are they to drive ?...any one know the sensitivity?


----------



## Tomasz2D

music4mhell said:


> I used this link
> http://onlinetonegenerator.com/hearingtest.html
> 
> I didn't increase any volume, that's ok. I just wanted to know opinions from others as every one here is far knowledgeable than me ! No harm in asking !


 
 OK, now I had a time to take this test myself and I can hear up to 16k but I'm 44. Note for others - this kind of test makes only sense if we keep the volume at the same level during the whole test. Unfortunately as we age hearing loss is inevitable and is more profound in higher frequencies but according to these diagrams ladies are more lucky:
  
  
 MEN:                                                         WOMEN:


----------



## Tomasz2D

smith said:


> Quick question regarding the Red De'mun  how easy or not (iPhone 6s+ source) are they to drive ?...any one know the sensitivity?


 
 Quick answer - Red De'mun is super easy to drive. Any (smart)phone will do.


----------



## kfarndog

tomasz2d said:


> So why do you like Masya and for what music do you use it mostly?


 
 I listen to everything from classical, jazz, bluegrass, through to punk and metal.  Acoustic music is where the Masya shines, but honestly it handles most types of music very competently and often beautifully.
  
 I like the Masya's clarity and the fact that they can be a chameleon with a little equalization or different foams.  The highs can be a little shouty, but I am sensitive to it - easily cured with either equalization, or warm and analog sounding source.


----------



## Moscow

Got an answer:Red De'mun $70 plus $35 EMS shipping.


----------



## Willber

supermag said:


> *I already gave my ty hiz 32 v1* *good earbud overall* and kz atr *extremely boring and non interesting sound* to my sisters as i have monk+, piston2 and 4in1, i was wondering if i should also buy the quin39 as they are hyped alot these days, *how are quin39 compared to monk+* and **** pt15.


 
  
 Oh dear, giving your Hi-Z v1 away - they are not sold anymore, I would try to get them back!
  
 Qian39 vs Monk+: Q has deeper bass, fuller mids and smoother highs. Q is smaller and more comfortable. Q has more v-shaped sig but easy to EQ. M seems more robust and has better cable.


----------



## fairx

I love my budget ty 32 and she3800. 

Will qian offer something new? Haven't been ordering anything new for a while. Only last night I reorder another she3800 for backup. 

My daily driver is ty 320 as I'm working from home right now. When I'm out or ride bike I still have my e80 iem. But honestly earbud has ruined me. I don't think I'm going back to iem. Just yesterday I listen to my friend senn ie80 and not impressed as I used to be.


----------



## Moscow

honestly earbud has ruined me. I don't think I'm going back to iem

That's good. IEMs are not safe for a bike ride.


----------



## kfarndog

moscow said:


> honestly earbud has ruined me. I don't think I'm going back to iem
> 
> That's good. IEMs are not safe for bike ride.


 
 Me too, but there always seems to be an appropriate place when IEMs are needed (airplane beside that crying baby, train, etc.)


----------



## Willber

fairx said:


> I love my budget ty 32 and she3800.
> 
> Will qian offer something new? Haven't been ordering anything new for a while. Only last night I reorder another she3800 for backup.


 
  
 Have a look at my summary here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds/150#post_13069709
  
 I would rate the SHE3800 below the TY 32 (Hi-Z) v1 and Qian39 but above the TY 32 v2. I say get the Qian39.


----------



## fairx

moscow said:


> honestly earbud has ruined me. I don't think I'm going back to iem
> 
> That's good. IEMs are not safe for a bike ride.



Not sure about other people. But for me iem with vented port are safer for riding. It means that I can differentiate music. I can still hear outside noise like car approaching or horn. I can be aware and still Listen to music. With earbud I cannot focus on anything,music nor outside noise. And that can be confusing and dangerous. I once forgot my e80 and tried using my earbud. It's a scary experience and I stop halfway because it's very confusing. Same as fully sealed iem like my Philips. When no vent port I can discern any outside noise at all. 

So let me clear that out, in my case anyway: iem + vent=good, iem - vent port=dangerous, earbud = confusing = dangerous.


----------



## fairx

willber said:


> Have a look at my summary here:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds/150#post_13069709
> 
> I would rate the SHE3800 below the TY 32 (Hi-Z) v1 and Qian39 but above the TY 32 v2. I say get the Qian39.


thanks. 
I finally bite. Just ordered one qian 39 for new year present to myself.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Ooooh the *K's 500 (Version 2)* is in the US!  
  
 Now I wait.....  
  

  
 --


----------



## Tonx

How does green Ting sound compared to Tomahawk?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

tonx said:


> How does green Ting sound compared to Tomahawk?


 
  
 I have both, I will do my best to give them a listen tonight and get back to you later.  
  
 --


----------



## purplesun

fairx said:


> thanks.
> I finally bite. Just ordered one qian 39 for new year present to myself.


 
 You might want to try this earbud for situational awareness:
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Original-MDR-E808-Bass-Noise-Isolating-Earphone-3-5MM-High-Qaulity-Flat-Head-Earbuds-In-Ear/1909638_32742308384.html
  
 IMO, has strong enough bass & clarity to enjoy the music at reasonable volume while letting in outside noises, and it's cheap.


----------



## mochill

tomasz2d said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > My favorites right now......
> ...


Your missing out on a gem bro, all VE buds are worthy


----------



## vapman

Taobao loot!!! 
No more sing post with mr tao for me. No tracking in the usa and requires signature 




Tomasz2D I remember posting the monk+ sounded more like asura 2.0 than OG monk way back when. kinda regret posting it as i know it's been perpetrated since then. but the truth is that it's only SLIGHTLY more like the asura 2.0. to say it's just like the asura 2.0 and there's no point in owning it is craziness!!! they are not the same.


----------



## smith

vapman said:


> My favorites right now......
> 
> 
> Red De'mun
> ...




How would you best describe the sound of the Red De'mun are they warm sounding ...Its between them and the stardust for me.....or maybe the Campfed is in the mix as well


----------



## vapman

smith said:


> How would you best describe the sound of the Red De'mun are they warm sounding ...Its between them and the stardust for me.....or maybe the Campfed is in the mix as well


 
 I haven't heard any Cypherus yet but want to hear Qfred mostly.
  
 I don't know if you have heard Zen 2 or MX985 but..... take the warmness and smoothness of Zen 2 and the overall sound character of MX985... that's basically what it is. Red De'mun is one of my warmest buds. It does not have the greatest extension of my earbuds, but the frequency range it does handle it does with impeccable accuracy and detail. It is an amazing, amazing bud.
  
 If I could only have one or the other of Red De'mun or Cygnus (never heard stardust) I wouldn't have to think about it for even a second. Bye bye Cygnus.


----------



## smith

Thanks@vapman


----------



## Saoshyant

Just got in the Qian39, and so far it seems quite decent for the price.  I'll have to give it a real listen after work.


----------



## dmos65

What do you think about these? vitalplays.com


----------



## vapman

[COLOR=DAA520]From my MisterTao bounty.....[/COLOR]

*Yinman Hifi 150 ohm*... My favorite of the bunch. Still deciding on what the tuning is exactly but it is very pleasant. It is like an Asura 2.0 without the sibilance and smoother mids and soundstage and a little more laid back sounding? It is remarkably like the HD598 now that I mention it.... Female vocals are probably some of the best on this bud of all I have and have heard. It's almost got a Zen 2 like smoothness to the mids. I really want to hear the 500 ohm now!
http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/537019842110.html

*Sanyo EAH-Z3E*..... These don't really work. Sounds like the connection is not very good, which I'm hoping is the case, and not that they're broken. The wire looks like it's 20+ years old and is probably breaking as I unravel the cable. So I really want to try to recable them, but I can't figure out how they open up at all.
http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/531410873409.html

*Vido*.... Been wanting to get these ever since @BloodyPenguin
 posted about them probably over half a year ago. They have fun bass but seem to distort on some tracks. I might try recabling these soon since the analog volume slider can't help SQ...
http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/520985842535.html

And I haven't tried the red Qian25 yet since I know how those sound 
http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/35092859662.html


Crappy picture of the Yinman... Dont wanna take em out again for another pic. That can wait


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> From my MisterTao bounty.....
> 
> *Vido*.... Been wanting to get these ever since @BloodyPenguin
> posted about them probably over half a year ago. They have fun bass but seem to distort on some tracks. I might try recabling these soon since the analog volume slider can't help SQ...
> http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/520985842535.html


 
  
 I'm wondering if there is an issue with the build quality.  My first pair of the Vido were fantastic.  Loved them.  Then the second pair was awful with issues with either the drivers or cable. 

 I have about 4 pairs of earbuds from MisterTao be DOA, or in bad working shape. 

 --


----------



## Raketen

idk why I waited so long to try Stardust with full foams, really tames that etched mid detail sound I was complaining about without killing the highs (they only sent me donut foams *shrug* using TKY2 generic foams atm). Full foams & Opus#1 DAP seems to be the sweet spot for me. Opus has really fine volume controls which I think helps me a lot with slightly midsy headphones, I seem to have much less tolerance for that than treble spikes for some reason.


----------



## vapman

bloodypenguin said:


> I'm wondering if there is an issue with the build quality.  My first pair of the Vido were fantastic.  Loved them.  Then the second pair was awful with issues with either the drivers or cable.
> 
> I have about 4 pairs of earbuds from MisterTao be DOA, or in bad working shape.
> 
> --


 
 Oh.... I forgot to mention, since you said they had the best bass of any buds, I went straight for the my subwoofer test tone kit.
  
 I'm going to, uh, try some music....


----------



## BloodyPenguin

tonx said:


> How does green Ting sound compared to Tomahawk?


 
  
  


bloodypenguin said:


> I have both, I will do my best to give them a listen tonight and get back to you later.
> 
> --


 
  
 *Update*  I have now spent time using these earbuds back to back.

*Green Ting*:  I've posted this before, but the Green Ting really did not impress me at first.  I ended up throwing them in a drawer and forgetting about them.  Then I decided to give them more time.  They really do have a nice, quality sound.  The treble can get a little hot in some tracks.  They do not lack for detail, they dissect tracks with ease.  Love listening to classical guitar with the Green Ting as it shines with strings playing.  The bass not huge, but runs deep and stays in control.  The smaller housing than the Tomahawk do help with overall comfort.  The build quality seems just under that of the Tomahawk.  The green ting has some problem areas with the L shaped plug prone to breaking (I've had to glue mine).  According to the MusicMaker/Toneking specs, they both come in at an Impedance of 32Ω, but I have found the Green Ting a little harder to drive.  I find the overall signature of the Green Ting to be a tad flat, not as fun as the Tomahawk.
  
  
*Tomahawk*: The Tomahawk was my first MusicMaker/Toneking product  and I now own all current 6 current earbuds they make.  I lusted after the Tomahawk for a year before I finally got my hands on one.  After back to back with the Green Ting, I an clearly hear that the Tomahawk has a much more gentle sound.  I hesitate to say smoother, but that basically is what it is.  There is not any loss of detail, but it keeps out any harshness in the highs.  Like the Green Ting, the Tomahawk is not big on bass, though it does have a lot more warmth throughout that does give way to a feel of more presence in the lows. The soundstage on the Tomahawk might be the the slightest bit larger, but both of them do stay more intimate than some other buds I have tried.  The Tomahawk can play a larger variety of music, while the Green Ting has a smaller selection of options, but still has its uses.
  

 If I was told I could only have one of these earbuds, I would without hesitation say the Tomahawk.  Though, I would not give up my Green Ting without a fight, I still use it quite a bit.

  
 Hope that helps a little.

 --


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> Oh.... I forgot to mention, since you said they had the best bass of any buds, I went straight for the my subwoofer test tone kit.
> 
> I'm going to, uh, try some music....


 
  
 Gosh, I am so upset I left my first pair of the Vido out for my son to destroy.  It was my number one used earbud at the time, I LOVED the deep, controlled bass.  For me, it is the earbud that got away. 

 Like I said, the second one I got is not working correctly, so I have a hard time figuring out what is going on.
  
 --


----------



## vapman

bloodypenguin said:


> Gosh, I am so upset I left my first pair of the Vido out for my son to destroy.  It was my number one used earbud at the time, I LOVED the deep, controlled bass.  For me, it is the earbud that got away.
> 
> Like I said, the second one I got is not working correctly, so I have a hard time figuring out what is going on.
> 
> --


 
 I got mine from the link you gave me way back and they sound great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Maybe it's just a cable issue with your other ones? (I forget what you said was wrong with it) - to be honest if I didn't have Qian39 these would be more special in my collection... I still think i will recable them without a mic.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> I got mine from the link you gave me way back and they sound great
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have the Qian39 on the way.  I am really looking forward to checking out their bass that I hear everyone talking about.  I don't doubt it will be bigger than the Vido I had. 
  
 --


----------



## vapman

Vido driver....


----------



## haiku

After about 30 hours of burn in, I have to say the 1More E1008 is note for note the better earbud when compared to the EO320. Premium Quality Build and Packaging, Ultra high resolution and stellar sound, looks even more beautiful in reality than on the pics. For the true earbud connoisseur.  I just love it. Price Range between 90,- - 270,- USD. I payed 95,-, but would also have bought it at 270,- if I had to. It´s that good imo.


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> Taobao loot!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 They threw in some free candies? This is sooo cute isn't it.


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> They threw in some free candies? This is sooo cute isn't it.


 
 Haha, no. those candies are mine... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Sadly the Vido seems to be very sensitive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I got to spend about 10 minutes with the recabled ones and it really did sound different from a Qian39. Then I dropped them and the drivers popped out, but were fine when I put them back in.
  
 ...Then I dropped them again a few minutes latter and the left one didn't survive that fall, but the right one kept working.  I thought it was the cable so I redid the soldering on the left one, and then neither worked 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyway, point is, they actually did sound awesome and I'm joining @BloodyPenguin  in mourning the loss of them. Only like 15 minutes total I spent with them sadly but the recable with thicker wire helped a lot. I'm ultra sad now cause I will have to get another set or two now... It's very possible they slightly edged out the Qian39 in bass, and seemed to have slightly fuller mids.
  
 Gahhhhh they were great.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> Sadly the Vido seems to be very sensitive
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 We are Vido Killers.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 --


----------



## vapman

bloodypenguin said:


> We are Vido Killers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What I don't understand is how the right one died when I was repairing the left one. Oh well, they must be cursed. It sucks because they sounded so good... and won't be possible to more for at least a month 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 (not mid/high - tier killers, but really good by themselves, arghhhh)


----------



## Danneq

haiku said:


> After about 30 hours of burn in, I have to say the 1More E1008 is note for note the better earbud when compared to the EO320. Premium Quality Build and Packaging, Ultra high resolution and stellar sound, looks even more beautiful in reality than on the pics. For the true earbud connoisseur.  I just love it. Price Range between 90,- - 270,- USD. I payed 95,-, but would also have bought it at 270,- if I had to. It´s that good imo.




You should try TY HiZ HP650. Got them yesterday and they're pretty good. I prefer them to K500. If you can find a pair for around $100 it's definitely worth it.

If you go up to $280 CAX black edition beats everything. A guy in the Cypherus earbud thread got his pair the other day and thinks they are almost as good as his $1700 Audeze LCD-X...


----------



## vapman

Hmmm.... I got the $3.50 Sanyos "working". They have a really distant tone and strange echoey sound. All treble and upper mids. Very very weird. But, I did find a use for my E100 shells for them. Not that I can imagine ever wanting to use them... haha. 
  
 So, I don't recommend these


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> Then I dropped them and the drivers popped out, but were fine when I put them back in.
> 
> ...Then I dropped them again a few minutes latter and the left one didn't survive that fall, but the right one kept working.  I thought it was the cable so I redid the soldering on the left one, and then neither worked


 
 Better admit you just threw them at the wall with anger...
  
 But seriously, Yinman looks interesting. I didn't realize that there are other wooden earbuds apart from DaiK's ones. I wish wood is more often used as shell's material. It should add some warmness to the tone. How is the finish on your pair?


----------



## Muniek66

danneq said:


> You should try TY HiZ HP650. Got them yesterday and they're pretty good. I prefer them to K500. If you can find a pair for around $100 it's definitely worth it.
> 
> If you go up to $280 CAX black edition beats everything. A guy in the Cypherus earbud thread got his pair the other day and thinks they are almost as good as his $1700 Audeze LCD-X...


 
  
 If I like VE Monk + sound signature,  TY HiZ HP650 will be  a good choice for upgrade?


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> Better admit you just threw them at the wall with anger...
> 
> But seriously, Yinman looks interesting. I didn't realize that there are other wooden earbuds apart from DaiK's ones. I wish wood is more often used as shell's material. It should add some warmness to the tone. How is the finish on your pair?


 
 I would feel better about them breaking if I had thrown them at the wall >_< cause the way they broke was so stupid.
  
 The Yinman is a great finish. The wood is not rough at all, very smooth to the touch, and no excessive lacquer, which is how I like it =) I couldn't get a great pic so here is one from the Taobao listing...
  

  
 That picture is slightly darker than mine seem to be, and makes them look a bit rougher, but they really are fine. They use MX500 driver covers so I assume you could try other MX500 size drivers in it.
  
 The sound is warm and balanced. I don't need to describe too much to you because it's awfully similar to the Red De'mun.  With a little more and deeper bass, warmer overall sound, and a little less treble extension, but a comparable amount of clarity and soundstage.  I think they are changing for the better as I burn them in more - better treble clarity and soundstage - so I'll refrain from saying too much before I have more time with them.
  
  
  
  


muniek66 said:


> If I like VE Monk + sound signature,  TY HiZ HP650 will be  a good choice for upgrade?


 
  
 Unless you EQ it, HP650 is pretty bass light and is not exactly the same signature as the Monk+. It is a great bud but there are probably other high end ones that are closer to the Monk+ sound sig.


----------



## fairx

purplesun said:


> You might want to try this earbud for situational awareness:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Original-MDR-E808-Bass-Noise-Isolating-Earphone-3-5MM-High-Qaulity-Flat-Head-Earbuds-In-Ear/1909638_32742308384.html
> 
> IMO, has strong enough bass & clarity to enjoy the music at reasonable volume while letting in outside noises, and it's cheap.


how do they compare to she3800? She3800 has strong bass and full mids. Slightly rolled off highs and pass the fullness of sound when wearing helmet.


----------



## vapman

fairx said:


> how do they compare to she3800? She3800 has strong bass and full mids. Slightly rolled off highs and pass the fullness of sound when wearing helmet.


 
 Pretty different. E808+ has like no mids at all. Very sharp V sound.
  
 Now the Yinman 150 is for people who want a more refined SHE3800 in every way. Hopefully there is a non Taobao seller? But they are really good, and i was super surprised today when I went from SHE3800 to Yinman 150. Those 2 have the same signature almost exactly, just the Yinman is a lot more refined.


----------



## Saoshyant

@vapman Was meaning to ask, which store did you buy the Walnut v2 from?  It seems to be quite inexpensive, so I can't help but want to give it a try.  Only drawback is I'd have to start converting various files to mp3 & wav.
  
 Also to keep it kind of on track, Qian39 sounds great with Radiohead's Nude.  Really pleasing sound for the price.


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> @vapman Was meaning to ask, which store did you buy the Walnut v2 from?  It seems to be quite inexpensive, so I can't help but want to give it a try.  Only drawback is I'd have to start converting various files to mp3 & wav.
> 
> Also to keep it kind of on track, Qian39 sounds great with Radiohead's Nude.  Really pleasing sound for the price.


 
 Check the link in my sig =) I used the Aliexpress store in the 2nd post but a lot of guys here have used the eBay link too with no problems.
  
 The good thing about converting FLAC and other lossless to WAV is the encoding job is done in 2 seconds. Super fast. If you have any lossy stuff try not to transcode it! =)
  
 Qian39 is great and I do really love it. I feel like my Qian39 mod is getting somewhere but not quite as good as it can be yet.


----------



## Saoshyant

I'm still disappointed I can't boost the 808+.  I mean it really does have a great bassy sound for no eq, but I was hoping it'd hold up and really show something special on the X3 with some boosting.


----------



## fairx

vapman said:


> Pretty different. E808+ has like no mids at all. Very sharp V sound.
> 
> Now the Yinman 150 is for people who want a more refined SHE3800 in every way. Hopefully there is a non Taobao seller? But they are really good, and i was super surprised today when I went from SHE3800 to Yinman 150. Those 2 have the same signature almost exactly, just the Yinman is a lot more refined.


now there's something interesting. Refined she3800. Just today I show my she3800 to couple of local enthusiasts and the response is very good. The response is a lot better than monk+. Need to order more while they last. 

Will Look into these Yinman. Hope they're available in aliexpress soon. Someone mention ty 32 is not available for purchase anymore? I'm glad my ty 32 still going strong in build quality and SQ. All these made me realize that some small production stuff weren't meant to be mass produced and not always readily available


----------



## vapman

fairx said:


> now there's something interesting. Refined she3800. Just today I show my she3800 to couple of local enthusiasts and the response is very good. The response is a lot better than monk+. Need to order more while they last.
> 
> Will Look into these Yinman. Hope they're available in aliexpress soon. Someone mention ty 32 is not available for purchase anymore? I'm glad my ty 32 still going strong in build quality and SQ. All these made me realize that some small production stuff weren't meant to be mass produced and not always readily available


 
 Yup, but if you can order from Taobao it's worth it for sure. Great earbud. Yes I agree I tend to hoard a few of everything I really like since stuff appears and disappears again without any warning. I gave one of my SHE3800 away, have one open and the other still new =)
  
 Actually, I gave one of the SHE3800 to a friend who introduced me to this site over 10 years ago. He has owned a lot of nice gear..... after the first set of Monk I gave him, he sold his Stax setup, now he is about to give someone else his HD600 setup for xmas because, as he says, all he needs is "all the buds I have and (his) work cans"... and yes, all those buds are my extras I forced him to take from me... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  


saoshyant said:


> I'm still disappointed I can't boost the 808+.  I mean it really does have a great bassy sound for no eq, but I was hoping it'd hold up and really show something special on the X3 with some boosting.


 
 That's weird. Does it distort? I have boosted it a lot... hmm.


----------



## Tonx

bloodypenguin said:


> ***


 
 Thank you!


----------



## purplesun

fairx said:


> how do they compare to she3800? She3800 has strong bass and full mids. Slightly rolled off highs and pass the fullness of sound when wearing helmet.


 

 IMO, SHE3800 has a full-bodied sound but with less high/low extensions than E808+. E808+ has stronger low & mid-bass, but dips from upper-bass to low-mids. Upper-midrange to mid-treble is fairly strong, but a bit thin-sounding. I am guessing with the dip in upper-bass & low-mids, there's less masking of outside noise in that range, while the rest of the music is playing at reasonable volume, which should help in situational awareness. It has become my favourite earbud for walking around and interacting with people while listening to music.


----------



## Moscow

My first 11.11


----------



## Saoshyant

@vapman What it's doing was something is loose in the right earbud, kind of like a vibrating sound.  Noticed this on xDuoo X3 rockboxed with +4 bass, so I might order a second pair as I do think it has a lot of promise.  I know if you approve of an earbud's bass, you've put it through a lot more than I would, so it's got to be a defect of sorts.


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> @vapman What it's doing was something is loose in the right earbud, kind of like a vibrating sound.  Noticed this on xDuoo X3 rockboxed with +4 bass, so I might order a second pair as I do think it has a lot of promise.  I know if you approve of an earbud's bass, you've put it through a lot more than I would, so it's got to be a defect of sorts.


 
 Purplesun and I have collectively decided they are as much of a gamble as the SHE3800.
  

 Also, funny that you mention that. that happened to me a couple times. each time i unplugged it, used something else, and then maybe 10 minutes later went back to the track it buzzed on... wait for it... nothing. sounded perfectly fine? they are very weird.


----------



## Saoshyant

Yep, it's the only thing keeping me from giving the SHE3800 a try.  If I do order, I'll order two more so I can hope one of them is good.  I'd probably order at least 3 SHE3800 for the same reason if I finally do.
  
 It reminds me of when the Baldoor E100 became popular, but there were so many mixed opinions that it ended up being a gamble.  I still have mine, but it's been so long since I've listened I don't even remember if I had a decent one or not.


----------



## purplesun

saoshyant said:


> @vapman What it's doing was something is loose in the right earbud, kind of like a vibrating sound.  Noticed this on xDuoo X3 rockboxed with +4 bass, so I might order a second pair as I do think it has a lot of promise.  I know if you approve of an earbud's bass, you've put it through a lot more than I would, so it's got to be a defect of sorts.


 
  
 @vapman's unit had about a week of bass-coddling by me before he took over the E808+, so perhaps his was thoroughly burned-in before he let it rip. Frightens me that you people still think there's not enough bass


----------



## Saoshyant

I think it's partially the quest to find the earbud that can handle enough bass to somewhat satisfy a basshead.


----------



## purplesun

saoshyant said:


> I think it's partially the quest to find the earbud that can handle enough bass to somewhat satisfy a basshead.


 

 It's easy enough to open; if you want to check for what is vibrating inside. Grab the stem and push the cover out with your thumbnail. There's hardly any glue used to keep the cover in place. The driver should remain within the detached cover.


----------



## Saoshyant

I'd be willing to do that once I have others here as it sounds just fine with no boosting at all, so for daps like the Shanling M1 I'd use it without a problem.  Also really liked gaming with it on PS4 via the controller.  I'll keep that in mind however when I finally have some spares nearby.


----------



## Danneq

saoshyant said:


> @vapman
> What it's doing was something is loose in the right earbud, kind of like a vibrating sound.  Noticed this on xDuoo X3 rockboxed with +4 bass, so I might order a second pair as I do think it has a lot of promise.  I know if you approve of an earbud's bass, you've put it through a lot more than I would, so it's got to be a defect of sorts.




I discovered that it's much better to do the more advanced EQing on Rockbox than just boosting bass. You can set the frequencies you want to boost all the way down to 20hz. I boost 20, 40, 60 & 80 hz. I start high (+2 or 3 dB) on the lowest frequencies and then use less boost as the fq goes higher. That way I only boost sub bass. I'm not a basshead but I like it when bass has a "solid" quality. Just boosting bass on the "bass boost" option left bass too flabby and undefined for me. I did not want to hear more bass, but rather feel it's presence more, and this solution was pretty good.
When I use earbuds outside this compensates for the loss in bass response from outside noise. 

Just a suggestion...


----------



## Saoshyant

That's something I do more for specific earbuds instead of just a quick adjustment to try something out.  It's really more that I'll do dedicated EQ on something like my Shanling M1, and just simple EQ with the X3 as I have no issues.


----------



## Danneq

saoshyant said:


> That's something I do more for specific earbuds instead of just a quick adjustment to try something out.  It's really more that I'll do dedicated EQ on something like my Shanling M1, and just simple EQ with the X3 as I have no issues.




Different DAPs of course handle EQ differently. Using that custom EQ on Rockbox I could finally get some sub bass from my Cowon X5 (famous for the bass roll off under 80 hz). It sounded pretty mediocre with the original firmware and BBE. But with Rockbox and sub bass boost it sounds just wonderful.


----------



## Saoshyant

Heavy EQ can do wonderful magical transformations, but it can take a lot of work and a better ear than I have to properly fix things.


----------



## JASru

Is there anyone who tried various cables on PT-15?


----------



## Raketen

vapman said:


> I would feel better about them breaking if I had thrown them at the wall >_< cause the way they broke was so stupid.
> 
> The Yinman is a great finish. The wood is not rough at all, very smooth to the touch, and no excessive lacquer, which is how I like it =) I couldn't get a great pic so here is one from the Taobao listing...
> 
> That picture is slightly darker than mine seem to be, and makes them look a bit rougher, but they really are fine. They use MX500 driver covers so I assume you could try other MX500 size drivers in it.




Awesome looking combo with the L5 Pro. One of (if not) the best sounding sources I have heard (unfortunately a little on the warm & thick side for me).


----------



## Danneq

saoshyant said:


> Heavy EQ can do wonderful magical transformations, but it can take a lot of work and a better ear than I have to properly fix things.


 

 That is true. I found the basic settings on the Anything but ipod forum and then adapted it for my Rockbox DAPs.


----------



## zabunny94

vapman said:


> What I don't understand is how the right one died when I was repairing the left one. Oh well, they must be cursed. It sucks because they sounded so good... and won't be possible to more for at least a month
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 speaking about Vido, its been 3 weeks since i get this kz replacement cable for recabling my Vido, but my sheer amount of lazyness preventing me from going to hardware store and buy soldering tools. this buds deserve a better cable than the J-cord stock one(and of course so is the she3800).
  
 also, from what i've heard in Earbuds lover Indonesia Group, seems like the mic version has a slightly different sound than the non mic one. but of course since i only have the non mic version, i don't know for sure and my sceptism telling me that it probably just sound the same like the multiple variation of monk plus. and also the non mic version seems to be more durable from the lack of volume slider thingy.
  
 and surprising news, someone in tokopedia(indonesian marketplace) selling a bunch of benjie stock earbuds for less than $2(IDR 25k), i wonder how much it actually cost to buy it directly from taobao


----------



## Frederick Wang

hey guys, anyone has successfully reshelled PT15? I got all the tools needed to transplant the driver into an e808+ body,but this is my fisrt time ever to try something like this, any heads-up?


----------



## golov17

frederick wang said:


> hey guys, anyone has successfully reshelled PT15? I got all the tools needed to transplant the driver into an e808+ body,but this is my fisrt time ever to try something like this, any heads-up?


 a lot of glue.... is better not to try, if you have no experience


----------



## JASru

I just tried a decent Lyre audio copper cable and it settled the issue with sibilance for me.
  
 As I promised I compared VX and PT-15. 
 Well, here it is:

*The VX* is airy with very high detalisation and decent overall balance. The bass is present and quite clean, but there is no punch. You know that fealing when you not only hear the bass but feel it? It is clearly missing.Just try Bonobo - Kiara to get what I mean - the punch should come with the beat. That is not a big deal for classical music (not all of it though).
 The mids are clean, detailed, slightly moved back (like a single step). 
 The highs are clean, crisp, without "sandy" aftertaste. The sibilance is very rare, pretty much none existent. The violin is superb in these.
  
 The build.
 Steel. *****in steel. It is indestructable, but is so damn cold to use outdoors. Using these in -15 will leave you with a frostburn. The cable is feeling okay. It has a decent rubber cover, has a little memory, but not to a point to make it a big deal. The jack is ok. The only thing that troubles me a bit is the cable separator - no chin strap is not a big deal, but no strain relief is likely to be an issue. L&R can be differed not only by engravinds but  by the bottom part of the earbuds - the left one has the ring-cut ( do not know how to call it correctly). The VX engravings are small and quite nice.
  
 Overall the feel like a well designed and well made product. The sound was not made by accident, but by design. It excells at classic composition that do not have immense bass( Bach-lovers for example may be disappointed), the traditional chineese music, trip, trip-hop, ambient and country 9John. Not so good for hip-hop (some of Outkast tracks were ok, but Shahmen's - Mark is definetely not for theese earbuds), metal, core-genres etc.
  
*PT-15* is airy still, the detalisation is no less than VX, but balance is strange. Let me explain. i tried it with Lyre audio cable, stock black and HCK-green-black cheapo cable. The sibilance was a big issue on two latter, but the first one soothened it a bit. But no matter what cable I tried there seems to be hump in treble area. Overall they are ok but sometimes you get a feeling of razor coming through your ear.
 If we talk about about bass - the situation is more or less the same. The bass is heard but not perceived. Bass boost swith on Fiio A5 ain't helping at all.
 Mids are good. Just good. Nothing superb, but nothing to worry about.
 Treble extension is very good, more or less the same when compared to VX. The highs are pretty much well done. "Sandy" effect occured once or twice, but it was not systematic. The problem is that sibilance is there. Maybe it is easy to correct with EQ, but I hate to use one. Only with copper cable that costs more than the bud and VE foams I somehow managed to finish it off.

 The build.
  
 I do not know what the shell material is but it looks decent. The engravings are nice ( btw what do the numbers after PT15_*** mean? any ideas?). The connector quality is yet to be discovered, but so good so far. 
 With swappable cable there ain't much i can say about default cable - it ain't really bad, but ain't cool either. It is ok, especially given the price.
  
 Overall the earbuds is good, but what you should keep in mind that this needs some tinkering to get it comfortable. Is it a problem given the price? No. It is a thing you should keep in mind. 
  
*Summary*
 The PT-15 and VX may be compared, because they (imo) have a close J(rather than V) signature. They are very different in terms of price, while being not so different in terms of sound. Yes, the VX feels more refined, but it is much more expensive and no cable socket. As I said the upgrade is in overall tonal balance. Would i recommend to get VX over PT-15? Not sure. I purchased it before PT-15 arrived.

p.s. Please take this with a grain of salt. I am not a professional and make judgements out of my own preception, which may be very different from yours.
 Both headphones were purchased. I used Hidisz AP100-FiioA5 combo and .flac 16-24bit files for testing. Thank you for reading!


----------



## JASru

Two questions, folks:
  
 1) What version of K's 500's have the rattling cable issue? 1 or 2(more expensive one)? Or both?
  
 2) I know it is an off-top, but have anone in this thread listened to L&P L3 DAP? Is it worth getting?


----------



## Frederick Wang

thank u, will practise with something cheep first...


----------



## Willber

fairx said:


> Someone mention ty 32 is not available for purchase anymore? I'm glad my ty 32 still going strong in build quality and SQ. All these made me realize that some small production stuff weren't meant to be mass produced and not always readily available


 
  
 The TY 32 *v1 *(straight plug) is no longer available although the *v2 *(L-shaped plug) is. They sound different and I prefer the v1. I think the Qian39 and SHE3900 are also better than the v2. In addition there is now the TY 32*s* which I don't think anyone has received yet.


----------



## golov17

Lovely earbuds, is a pity recessed mids, amplifier corrects it fortunately  cm700ti


----------



## Tomasz2D

jasru said:


> As I promised I compared VX and PT-15.


 
 Very good description JASru.
  
 On 11.11. I ordered TY650, Moondrop VX Pro, EO320, Qian39 and **** PT15. No TY650 for me this time because the seller canceled my order but few days ago I received two of ordered earbuds and for last days I am spending my time mainly with VX Pro and PT15.
 **** PT15 - hmmm... quite a positive surprice for me. Very organic sound, soft... soft silk. Vibrant piece of paper, pergamin. It's like that old vintage violin that is already well boken-in after hundreds hours of playing. Yes, it is prone to sibilance and hissing but I feel that's the price that has to be paid for its overall nice performance. Most acoustic instruments sound exceptionally good in PT15. For example grand piano sounds like electric piano in most earbuds but in PT15 it has very pleasant timbre.


----------



## JASru

tomasz2d said:


> Very good description JASru.
> 
> On 11.11. I ordered TY650, *Moondrop VX Pro*, EO320, Qian39 and **** PT15. No TY650 for me this time because the seller canceled my order but few days ago I received two of ordered earbuds and for last days I am spending my time mainly with VX Pro and PT15.
> **** PT15 - hmmm... quite a positive surprice for me. Very organic sound, soft... soft silk. Vibrant piece of paper, pergamin. It's like that old vintage violin that is already well boken-in after hundreds hours of playing. Yes, it is prone to sibilance and hissing but I feel that's the price that has to be paid for its overall nice performance. Most acoustic instruments sound exceptionally good in PT15. For example grand piano sounds like electric piano in most earbuds but in PT15 it has very pleasant timbre.


 
 Have you received VX already?


----------



## Tomasz2D

jasru said:


> Have you received VX already?


 
 Yes, as I already said above "and for last days I am spending my time mainly with VX Pro and PT15"


----------



## JASru

tomasz2d said:


> Yes, as I already said above "and for last days I am spending my time mainly with VX Pro and PT15"


 
 Sorry, missed that. You have similar feeling that I do? That VX is a bit more refined and balanced, but not to the extent to explain the 2x price difference.


----------



## To.M

After 2 days in the company of PT15 I still like them or like them even more  with some corrections in EQ they can sound impressive, well, considering my small collection of cheapo buds of course


----------



## thekenta

Got introduced back into the world of earbuds thanks to the Monk+.

 Looking for more earbuds to try that may exceed the sound quality of the Monks.

 I so far saw that the Qian39 and TY Hi-Z 1.0 are very popular around here.
 Any other great low budget suggestions since the TY 1.0 are not available anymore?


----------



## Tomasz2D

jasru said:


> Sorry, missed that. You have similar feeling that I do? That VX is a bit more refined and balanced, but not to the extent to explain the 2x price difference.


 
 I received VX Pro and PT15 almost the same time so I started using them almost simultaneously changing from one to another every few albums. At first I liked VX Pro much more and I thought that PT15 is very mediocre. But after some time I undestood that VX Pro is in fact just another variation of the similar sound but this is PT15 that brings something new to earbuds world. Very organic paper-like timbre nicely reveling all harmonies in music. I wouldn't be suprices at all to find PT15 in "The Contender" category one day. Is VX more balanced and refined? Maybe yes but the charm is in PT15.


----------



## petan970

tomasz2d said:


> jasru said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, missed that. You have similar feeling that I do? That VX is a bit more refined and balanced, but not to the extent to explain the 2x price difference.
> ...




Absolutly agree with you Tomasz. PT15 are really great, very nice airy sound. Bass is also great if you add some bass boost using EQ. I like them more than Tomahawk or 1more EO320 earbuds.


----------



## JASru

tomasz2d said:


> I received VX Pro and PT15 almost the same time so I started using them almost simultaneously changing from one to another every few albums. At first I liked VX Pro much more and I thought that PT15 is very mediocre. But after some time I undestood that VX Pro is in fact just another variation of the similar sound but this is PT15 that brings something new to earbuds world. Very organic paper-like timbre nicely reveling all harmonies in music. I wouldn't be suprices at all to find PT15 in "The Contender" category one day. Is VX more balanced and refined? Maybe yes but the charm is in PT15.


 
 Guess the problem may be that I need a darker DAP. AP100 is overly neutral, but has some shift in treble.


----------



## fairx

thekenta said:


> Got introduced back into the world of earbuds thanks to the Monk+.
> 
> Looking for more earbuds to try that may exceed the sound quality of the Monks.
> 
> ...


 
 think as monk+ as middle ground, TY 32 is brighter more accurate vocal (IMO), she3800 is darker, both has better mids (again, IMO) than monk+ but lack the airiness. I just recently re-appreciate she3800 after months untouched. I like it so much that I ordered another pair, and that leads to another purchase.. (qian) man I haven't bought anything in 3 months because I'm very satisfied with my TY 320ohm. But she3800 got meatier and heavier bass and better lower mid. surprisingly the bass never sound muddy or felt spilling. It also can handle a lot of amping. however the bass slam can be tiring sometimes.


----------



## flamesofarctica

Hi, first post but lurking, reading (and spending) for a couple of months.

Started with the Monk+ and after trying all the similar budget ones have moved up the range a bit with my best being the Asura 2.0. It really is an awesome earbud, and I'm finding hard to see how much better something could sound to my ears (impressed with the Boarseman MX98s as well, but the Asura is just lovely). Listen to all sorts by the way, mostly classic rock / metal / power metal / the odd musical and a bit of Prince 

So the logical next step to me feels like the Zen 2 (I'm a sucker for brand loyalty . My worry is over the level of amping required. DAP wise I have the Hidizs AP60 and the xduoo X3 (have ordered the Walnut as it seems intriguing and at that price worth a try). My only amp is a Fiio A3.

Any thoughts, would I need a new amp, and if so any recommendations?

Btw thanks to this thread and rediscovering earbuds, all the IEMs I bought over the last year are sat in a cupboard


----------



## Willber

thekenta said:


> Got introduced back into the world of earbuds thanks to the Monk+.
> 
> Looking for more earbuds to try that may exceed the sound quality of the Monks.
> 
> ...


 

 This thread might be of interest to you:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds


----------



## mochill

flamesofarctica said:


> Hi, first post but lurking, reading (and spending) for a couple of months.
> 
> Started with the Monk+ and after trying all the similar budget ones have moved up the range a bit with my best being the Asura 2.0. It really is an awesome earbud, and I'm finding hard to see how much better something could sound to my ears (impressed with the Boarseman MX98s as well, but the Asura is just lovely). Listen to all sorts by the way, mostly classic rock / metal / power metal / the odd musical and a bit of Prince
> 
> ...


VE ra2 plus, just stick with VE


----------



## Danneq

flamesofarctica said:


> Hi, first post but lurking, reading (and spending) for a couple of months.
> 
> Started with the Monk+ and after trying all the similar budget ones have moved up the range a bit with my best being the Asura 2.0. It really is an awesome earbud, and I'm finding hard to see how much better something could sound to my ears (impressed with the Boarseman MX98s as well, but the Asura is just lovely). Listen to all sorts by the way, mostly classic rock / metal / power metal / the odd musical and a bit of Prince
> 
> ...


 

 If you are willing to try other brands and want to go with high impedance earbuds, TY HiZ HP650 is a great option. Easier to drive than Zen 2, despite 650 ohm vs Zen 2's 320, and to me it sounds much more balanced with no treble roll off like Zen 2 has.

 As for low impedance TOTL earbuds, the Indonesian trio Red De'mun (ca $70 + $35 in shipping), Edimun V3 (about the same as Red De'mun) and especially Cypherus CampFred ($150 + around $40 in shipping if you go with EMS) are all amazing (with my vote going to CampFred).


----------



## JASru

flamesofarctica said:


> Hi, first post but lurking, reading (and spending) for a couple of months.
> 
> Started with the Monk+ and after trying all the similar budget ones have moved up the range a bit with my best being the Asura 2.0. It really is an awesome earbud, and I'm finding hard to see how much better something could sound to my ears (impressed with the Boarseman MX98s as well, but the Asura is just lovely). Listen to all sorts by the way, mostly classic rock / metal / power metal / the odd musical and a bit of Prince
> 
> ...


 
 Asked this question a while ago. A3 should be enough for 300Ohm IEM/earbuds if you are ok with medium volume.

 edit:BTW Walnut can act as an amp and if I am not mistaken, quite a powerfull one.


----------



## flamesofarctica

mochill said:


> VE ra2 plus, just stick with VE



Is that the more expensive of the two? There's a VE RA2 and a VE RA plus I can see on there. The £290 RA2 is pushing my budget a bit (think joint birthday and Christmas present for a couple of years :-D) Could stretch to the RA plus (£80) but if that's not enough to power the Zen 2 then I've got a bit of a wait


----------



## flamesofarctica

@JASru and @Danneq, cheers stuff to consider! Not sure how to multiquote so I won't try as I don't want to spam the thread :-D I did order the TY HP650 on 11.11 by the way, but like at least one other person here, it came to nothing


----------



## Danneq

flamesofarctica said:


> @JASru and @Danneq, cheers stuff to consider! Not sure how to multiquote so I won't try as I don't want to spam the thread :-D I did order the TY HP650 on 11.11 by the way, but like at least one other person here, it came to nothing


 

 Too bad you missed out! TY650 is my favorite high impedance earbud (I've also heard VE Zen 1 & 2, Asura 2, Yuin PK1 & K's 500 ohm).

 Edit: if you want to multi quote, just click "multi" on the posts you want to reply to and then on "quote" on either of them. At least that's what I think I usually do...


----------



## vapman

flamesofarctica said:


> Hi, first post but lurking, reading (and spending) for a couple of months.
> 
> Started with the Monk+ and after trying all the similar budget ones have moved up the range a bit with my best being the Asura 2.0. It really is an awesome earbud, and I'm finding hard to see how much better something could sound to my ears (impressed with the Boarseman MX98s as well, but the Asura is just lovely). Listen to all sorts by the way, mostly classic rock / metal / power metal / the odd musical and a bit of Prince
> 
> ...


 
 Walnut is powerful enough to power any high impedance earbud. It can drive my TY 650 to levels I could in the past only get with an amp.  so it is like a crazy deal for that reason.
  
 Aside from that I can recommend either the Cayin C5 or Bengkel Macro bMac easily if you want an amp.
  
 If you like Asura 2.0 but want a smoother and more relaxed version of it I would look into the Yinman 150 ohms.


----------



## Fabi

flamesofarctica said:


> Is that the more expensive of the two? There's a VE RA2 and a VE RA plus I can see on there. The £290 RA2 is pushing my budget a bit (think joint birthday and Christmas present for a couple of years :-D) Could stretch to the RA plus (£80) but if that's not enough to power the Zen 2 then I've got a bit of a wait


 
 I guess RunAbout Plus on 18V PSU would be enough to transport you to Zenitude 2.0.
 And RA 2.0 on 24V would bring you even higher to Full Zenitude.
 Am I right @mochill ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


flamesofarctica said:


> I did order the TY HP650 on 11.11 by the way, but like at least one other person here, it came to nothing


 
 What happened?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Mine is still on the way..


----------



## Thomas De Brito

My Walnut is going to arrive next week I might go try them with high impedance headphones at the audiophile store in my city. I might let them try it out


----------



## Danneq

thomas de brito said:


> My Walnut is going to arrive next week I might go try them with high impedance headphones at the audiophile store in my city. I might let them try it out




Your avatar together with the fact that you bought a Walnut just kills me! :etysmile:


----------



## vapman

zabunny94 said:


> speaking about Vido, its been 3 weeks since i get this kz replacement cable for recabling my Vido, but my sheer amount of lazyness preventing me from going to hardware store and buy soldering tools. this buds deserve a better cable than the J-cord stock one(and of course so is the she3800).
> 
> also, from what i've heard in Earbuds lover Indonesia Group, seems like the mic version has a slightly different sound than the non mic one. but of course since i only have the non mic version, i don't know for sure and my sceptism telling me that it probably just sound the same like the multiple variation of monk plus. and also the non mic version seems to be more durable from the lack of volume slider thingy.
> 
> and surprising news, someone in tokopedia(indonesian marketplace) selling a bunch of benjie stock earbuds for less than $2(IDR 25k), i wonder how much it actually cost to buy it directly from taobao


 
 Haha!!! I used the same cable, the KZ brand.
  
 Where do you get the blue shell Vido though? I would love to try it , and only know where to get the white one with mic...
  
 BTW I was thinking of compiling a list of all earbud drivers which "look" like the driver used on PT15, Vido, E100, etc etc etc (separate voice coil from driver, driver with small notch to allow voice coil to connect, metal back with small holes, green pcb)
  
 edit: Just saw you didn't put on the KZ cable yet, be careful opening them, although you can do it with your fingers! and don't let them fall while the driver is exposed - that's how mine died! =( but I noticed a big improvement in fullness when I upgraded the stock wire to the KZ wire, the stock wire is crazy thin.


----------



## Thomas De Brito

danneq said:


> Your avatar together with the fact that you bought a Walnut just kills me! :etysmile:


Ahaha nice catch, well it might taste pretty good. I'll have to try it. Is the case made of wood or plastic painted to look like wood?


----------



## thekenta

fairx said:


> think as monk+ as middle ground, TY 32 is brighter more accurate vocal (IMO), she3800 is darker, both has better mids (again, IMO) than monk+ but lack the airiness. I just recently re-appreciate she3800 after months untouched. I like it so much that I ordered another pair, and that leads to another purchase.. (qian) man I haven't bought anything in 3 months because I'm very satisfied with my TY 320ohm. But she3800 got meatier and heavier bass and better lower mid. surprisingly the bass never sound muddy or felt spilling. It also can handle a lot of amping. however the bass slam can be tiring sometimes.


 
 Thanks, just odered the SHE3800 since they could be perfect for my favorite genre (Hip Hop).
 Have you had a chance to listen to the Qian yet?
  
 Also open to try out the PT15 ever since I read this thread.
  
 And to think I only had one pair of headphones before I joined this forum.


----------



## vapman

thekenta said:


> Thanks, just odered the SHE3800 since they could be perfect for my favorite genre (Hip Hop).
> Have you had a chance to listen to the Qian yet?
> 
> Also open to try out the PT15 ever since I read this thread.
> ...


 
 Qian and SHE3800 both are excellent hip hop choices. Vocals are a little less tiring on the Qian IMO but those are two very very good choices for hip hop. PT15 not as fun as those two but will have the most clarity.


----------



## flamesofarctica

fabi said:


> What happened??
> Mine is still on the way..




It was the apparently really good offer (Beteran HiFi), the tracking wasn't recognised and appeared not to have actually been sent, although they issued a tracking reference. I contacted them, they acknowledged there was a problem and sorted a refund.

They now appear to have in stock so maybe they'll send to anyone still waiting (who hasn't already been refunded).

The suggestion was it was a problem with the couriers...maybe I should have waited, it was a great deal.


----------



## JASru

vapman said:


> Walnut is powerful enough to power any high impedance earbud. It can drive my TY 650 to levels I could in the past only get with an amp.  so it is like a crazy deal for that reason.
> 
> Aside from that I can recommend either the Cayin C5 or Bengkel Macro bMac easily if you want an amp.
> 
> If you like Asura 2.0 but want a smoother and more relaxed version of it I would look into the Yinman 150 ohms.


 
 bMac Mk3 is still in production afaik. So this option  is pending.


----------



## JASru

vapman said:


> Walnut is powerful enough to power any high impedance earbud. It can drive my TY 650 to levels I could in the past only get with an amp.  so it is like a crazy deal for that reason.
> 
> Aside from that I can recommend either the Cayin C5 or Bengkel Macro bMac easily if you want an amp.
> 
> If you like Asura 2.0 but want a smoother and more relaxed version of it I would look into the Yinman 150 ohms.


 
 Afaik bMac V3 is not produced yet. So this option is for the future.


----------



## vapman

jasru said:


> Afaik bMac V3 is not produced yet. So this option is for the future.


 
 True, I have owned my V2 for probably 9 months? or something like that. I am supposed to be getting one from the first run but have not yet.
  
 If anyone else gets the Sanyo EAZ earbud can you `confirm if the signal is supposed to go to multiple solder points? It just sounds like it's not connected fully. They might just be broken in the exact same way on both drivers. who knows.


----------



## zabunny94

vapman said:


> Haha!!! I used the same cable, the KZ brand.
> 
> Where do you get the blue shell Vido though? I would love to try it , and only know where to get the white one with mic...
> 
> ...




I get the blue shelled Vido from local reseller. I think he get it from taobao or alibaba

If you're curious, you can try to search it on taobao with "window w25" and "window earbuds" as a keyword since it's brand was "window" before rebranded as vido but i don't really know if you can find it though. Fun fact, it was a freebies for window w25 dap.

The best bet to find it is to have someone who can write chinese letter, and ask him to write the chinese letter on the earbud picture that i post, then search it on taobao


----------



## awaysooner

No mic Vido.
 https://world.taobao.com/item/18326603735.htm
 Mic vido
 https://world.taobao.com/item/521773330955.htm


----------



## zabunny94

awaysooner said:


> No mic Vido.
> https://world.taobao.com/item/18326603735.htm
> Mic vido
> https://world.taobao.com/item/521773330955.htm




HOLY SITHIS! Less than a dollar per pair? If i only i had a Credit Card i would get 10 of them from taobao... 

Can you find this on Aliexpress? Because i can only buy from AE with my limited payment method


----------



## flamesofarctica

danneq said:


> if you want to multi quote, just click "multi" on the posts you want to reply to and then on "quote" on either of them. At least that's what I think I usually do...




Cheers!



vapman said:


> Walnut is powerful enough to power any high impedance earbud. It can drive my TY 650 to levels I could in the past only get with an amp.  so it is like a crazy deal for that reason.
> 
> Aside from that I can recommend either the Cayin C5 or Bengkel Macro bMac easily if you want an amp.
> 
> If you like Asura 2.0 but want a smoother and more relaxed version of it I would look into the Yinman 150 ohms.




The logo on that Bengkel Macro amp is awesome, that's me sold!



jasru said:


> Afaik bMac V3 is not produced yet. So this option is for the future.




Dammit


----------



## vapman

zabunny94 said:


> HOLY SITHIS! Less than a dollar per pair? If i only i had a Credit Card i would get 10 of them from taobao...
> 
> Can you find this on Aliexpress? Because i can only buy from AE with my limited payment method


 
 I'm seeing USD 3.19.... under a dollar a piece can't be real, can it?
  


flamesofarctica said:


> Cheers!
> The logo on that Bengkel Macro amp is awesome, that's me sold!
> Dammit


  LOL i was sold on it for the same reason. They do good work. Consider getting and edimun v3 at the same time to save on shipping..


----------



## zabunny94

vapman said:


> I'm seeing USD 3.19.... under a dollar a piece can't be real, can it?




What? it says only 5.90 yuan on my browser, when i convert it to IDR, its only 11k, and a dollar is 13k in IDR. Well, if you include the fee from mistertao forwarder, yeah maybe around $3

But most of local reseller sell it for $3, it's impossible for them to sell it here without making any profit, so i believe that it can be had for $1 if you buy it for a dozen maybe


----------



## vapman

zabunny94 said:


> What? it says only 5.90 yuan on my browser, when i convert it to IDR, its only 11k, and a dollar is 13k in IDR. Well, if you include the fee from mistertao forwarder, yeah maybe around $3
> 
> But most of local reseller sell it for $3, it's impossible for them to sell it here without making any profit, so i believe that it can be had for $1 if you buy it for a dozen maybe


 
 Oops, didn't check the non mic version! Cool, that is really cheap  I'll buy a handful!


----------



## Sempenyi

jasru said:


> Asked this question a while ago. A3 should be enough for 300Ohm IEM/earbuds if you are ok with medium volume.
> 
> 
> edit:BTW Walnut can act as an amp and if I am not mistaken, quite a powerfull one.




You can swap the opamp on walnut for better soundsig.

OP97 and MUSES8820D works so good. Should be enough to drive 320 ohm. And you can hold the next/prev button to increase the gain


----------



## awaysooner

This Vidos actually have white color with mic and shipped oversea previously. 
  
 https://world.taobao.com/item/13866284771.htm


----------



## luedriver

today I tried my neglected Qian25, as I haven't used them since last week, I am surprised how nice they sound, song after song, I'm starting to disbelieve myself for liking them
  
 my mind starts to wonder and thought how an earbud this cheap would compare to my hp-650, 
  
 so I tried them and saw that the hp-650, as always, were such a "serious' sounding earbud, articulate and "real", the Qian25 sounds more "fun" with music, with a surprising amount of soundstage and imaging, comparing the 2 is like comparing a mazda mx5 to a skoda superb


----------



## mints

i've been using eo320 for a week on and off
 i wanna love it but it's killing me ears
 treble is fatiguing?? had to -5
 bass is ok, +10 anyway
 even so, highs still cause some mild headache 
 ... still waiting for qian39


----------



## Saoshyant

Last update I had on my EO320 was the 22nd, so hoping it shows up in the US soon.


----------



## luedriver

so my cygnus finally came today, they sent me them in a little earphone case and 2 extra white donuts,
  
 I tried them and found they sounded different then I remember
  
 I figured that they had to change both drivers, to sound match the earbuds,
  
 so I put them on the "burner" (sansa zip clip) and plan to burn them in for about 5 days,
  
 something I didn't do the first time


----------



## AudioNewbi3

luedriver said:


> so my cygnus finally came today, they sent me them in a little earphone case,
> 
> I tried them and found they sounded different then I remember
> 
> ...


 
 Most probably you expereinced the same problem as me in that they only swapped one of the drivers....


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> Most probably you expereinced the same problem as me in that they only swapped one of the drivers....


 
 That sure is weird.
  
  
 I can easily recommend the Yinman Hifi 150 ohm. I would love to see what @ClieOS  thinks of the 500 ohm model. The 150 sounds like a very refined SHE3800, so the sound signature is familiar to many here, but far better in every way than the SHE3800 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and the wood housing is very nice , too.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

audionewbi3 said:


> Most probably you expereinced the same problem as me in that they only swapped one of the drivers....


 
  
  


vapman said:


> That sure is weird.


 
  
 edit: At least that is what I think as I feel that the sound of my serviced cygnus is no longer the same as the old cygnus, like a sort of an "unbalance feeling".


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> edit: At least that is what I think as I feel that the sound of my serviced cygnus is no longer the same as the old cygnus, like a sort of an "unbalance feeling".


 
 I mean it makes perfect sense if you have one driver with hundreds of hours on it and another fresh. That just seems really odd to me


----------



## luedriver

audionewbi3 said:


> edit: At least that is what I think as I feel that the sound of my serviced cygnus is no longer the same as the old cygnus, like a sort of an "unbalance feeling".


 
 the reason I sent them back was that they had  ass on the left and treble on the right, now they seem flat-er sound sig, hopefully, it just needs some burn in to return to it's true self
  


audionewbi3 said:


> Most probably you expereinced the same problem as me in that they only swapped one of the drivers....


 
 I think they swapped both, when trying the tone generator, there was no distinction between left and right, only a mono sound as it should be, unlike before, however, at certain frequencies, they sound weirdly distorted, that is why I decided to burn them in for 5 days


----------



## vapman

Woah, I've been only using my Walnut, so believe it or not I haven't done any serious bass testing on my Yinman 150 with my bass EQ...
  
 They amp great and aren't the bassiest I have but they do have really strong and nice bass. It just does not push to the limit quite as much as a few others.... but it is very close. With no EQ (Walnut) it still has a great bass presence and overwall warm sound.
  
 Mine have 60ish hours on them


----------



## endia

while digging on taobao, i found these cheaper 3800s;
 http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/43604293243.html
  
 and diy 300 ohm drivers which my current all rounders;
 https://world.taobao.com/item/533015723114.htm?fromSite=main


----------



## golov17

endia said:


> while digging on taobao, i found these cheaper 3800s;
> http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/43604293243.html
> 
> and diy 300 ohm drivers which my current all rounders;
> https://world.taobao.com/item/533015723114.htm?fromSite=main


 http://s.aliexpress.com/uqiQrYnU


----------



## endia

i've bought from same seller but it's only 3,47 on taobao


----------



## Blueshound24

Does anyone have any thoughts on Sennheiser MX475, MX365 or MX585? Don't see them mentioned here much.


----------



## vapman

blueshound24 said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts on Sennheiser MX475, MX365 or MX585? Don't see them mentioned here much.


 
 Are one of those the adidas model? Pretty good but not amazing in any way


----------



## noknok23

Hey Vapman, just wondering, does the somehow "bass boost" of the walnut makes the PT15 more balanced? what's your opinion?


----------



## vapman

noknok23 said:


> Hey Vapman, just wondering, does the somehow "bass boost" of the walnut makes the PT15 more balanced? what's your opinion?


 
 It doesn't have a bass boost. It just has a lot more amp power and dynamics than many other DAPs on account of running at 16 volts. If you need to boost the bass with EQ to get it to sound how you like, maybe the walnut isn't the player you want. Anyway, I can't stand using the PT15 without huge bass EQ, so I'd never use it on the Walnut to begin with....


----------



## noknok23

I mean, I've heard some people saying walnut's sound signature is on the warm side. But yeah ok get it


----------



## Blueshound24

vapman said:


> blueshound24 said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone have any thoughts on Sennheiser MX475, MX365 or MX585? Don't see them mentioned here much.
> ...


 
  
 It's these:
 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FWMITAO/
 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FWMITG8/
 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005920DVA/


----------



## wskl

I received my PT15 the other day and have listened to it for a few hours.  Build quality is very good and nice (black) cable too.  They feel weighty in the hand, but I have managed to wear them for 1 hour or so without discomfort.
  
 Regarding SQ, my first impressions are that they have very good resolution and clarity, I listen to only classical and orchestral scores and the PT15 plays nicely with those genres.  With a fast solo violin, I can hear each note very clearly, and background details pop out with ease, e.g. musician breathing, audience coughing, etc.
  
 I remember someone mentioning that the soundstage is like you are sitting in the middle of a room with the instruments around you, I get the same feeling but I find the soundstage to be rather intimate, instruments are played close to my ear and there is less air between instruments.  In contrast, the Monk+ which has been my daily driver for 6+ months, I feel that I am in a concert hall, whereas the instruments are in front of me, the soundstage is very spacious.
  
 I will post more impressions if I hear anything different after more listening and burn-in.


----------



## luedriver

blueshound24 said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts on Sennheiser MX475, MX365 or MX585? Don't see them mentioned here much.


 
 its true, but there are older posts on some sennheiser and goldenears has some reviews on some sennheiser earbuds
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/13485#post_12988408
  
 here is a review on the mx365 
  
  
 other than that clieos had posted that he gives the mx375 a big thumbs up but in ranking they are lower than the monk+, for whatever reason, (price, amp, performance etc.)


----------



## vapman

I dunno if I feel like writing another review so soon after my last one, but the Yinman 150 definitely deserves some attention! It is a great companion to many other great buds. I use thick foams on it and it has above average bass and mids pretty much like the Asura 2.0 and less sibilance up top. Combine that with a super comfortable shell that sits in your ear about as easily as the Cygnus and you have a great bud. Sounds like a refined SHE3800, also recommended for both Red Demun fans and those who wanted more/better bass out of the Cygnus...


----------



## Sempenyi

Anything sound good from this ?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

*Santa came a few weeks early.*  *K's 500 ohm (Version 2)*:
  

  
 --


----------



## haiku

Sadly, I have to report that after about 50 hours of burn in the sound of the E1008 has changed for the bad. I guess it´s the crossover point between the dynamic driver and the ceramic driver which creates a nasty, very dry sound that´s unbearable for me. Going back to the EO320 is a big relieve atm. I´ll give the E1008 some hours more, but if it doesn´t change, 1More´s hybrid earbud experiment has failed for me.


----------



## Tomasz2D

blueshound24 said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts on Sennheiser MX475, MX365 or MX585? Don't see them mentioned here much.


 
 I only have MX475 - similar to old Monk sound signature - warm and bassy but good quality.


----------



## luedriver

just found out the app (on my iphone 6s) that I use to check headphone loudness has a graph on it like the ones they use to measure headphones
  
 so, of course, I had to try and test some earbuds, and although it is way too poor to show it gave me a very rough idea what the sound signature is on headphones looked like
  
 I was using my hp-650 so this was the first earbud I tried and it showed mostly flat with a slight dip a bit over 4Khz and with a peak at 9-10Khz and a roll off slope after it
  
 again I used the iphone's microphone so this isn't meant to be anything to go by, it's just interesting that even with this setup with pink noise playing from my pc,  I could see the frequency range and perhaps be able to see in real time the differences in sound sig between earbuds
  
 my iphone didn't like it too much, though, it got really hot just measuring a few earbuds
  
  
 edit- playing around with the app, I found that most if not all earbuds have a dip just after the 4K, I thought it maybe its just the microphone that has a gap but looking up some Sennheiser's graphs on en.goldenears.net there is a trend in having a dip somewhere between 2k to about 4k


----------



## Saoshyant

@vapman Whenever I finally do a Taobao order, I'll almost certainly pick that one up.


----------



## mochill

Yinman 600ohm on sell on aliexpress.


----------



## mochill

haiku said:


> Sadly, I have to report that after about 50 hours of burn in the sound of the E1008 has changed for the bad. I guess it´s the crossover point between the dynamic driver and the ceramic driver which creates a nasty, very dry sound that´s unbearable for me. Going back to the EO320 is a big relieve atm. I´ll give the E1008 some hours more, but if it doesn´t change, 1More´s hybrid earbud experiment has failed for me.


I'll take them off your hands for a gift


----------



## Fabi

A new home for K's 500 Black


----------



## mochill

Sexy house it has there


----------



## Thomas De Brito

I got the Penon audio card too  are those the new cabled ty z32


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Are there any Earbuds that sounds Similar or Better than the HD650 & X2 Headphone?


----------



## mochill

Zen 2 black edition


----------



## smith

Just thought I would drop in to say that I have a original VE Monk and original Blox BE3 up for sale together...


----------



## haiku

mochill said:


> I'll take them off your hands for a gift


 
  

 I´ll bet!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 But honestly, after 10 hours more of burn in, I gave up on the E1008. The upper mids just sound too dry and harsh now.
 I´ll wait til I can sell it on Amazon.


----------



## mochill

I bet they need minimum 200hrs


----------



## haiku

mochill said:


> I bet they need minimum 200hrs


 

 Even I don´t have that much patience. And the E1008 already have around 70 hours on the clock. They sounded good around 30 hours, but then started to sound worse, and nothing much has happened since then, so....
 Well, back to the EO320. Can´t say I´m very sad, because I´ve been happy with my EO320 all the time. The E1008 look gorgeous though.....


----------



## Pxncture

did a cursory search with the search button and a bit of googling, didnt find a answer...
  
 Has anyone tried to take a TFZ (Series 1.3.5) iem driver and placed it in a earbud shell? From what I read the biggest issue with the iem is the bass and in a earbud shell wouldnt that lower it significantly? I am quite noobish to DIY so I figured I would see if someone has already done this.


----------



## Fabi

thomas de brito said:


> I got the Penon audio card too  are those the new cabled ty z32


 
 Yep, TY HP32s on the burn-in machine right now.
 Actually I have received 2 different christmas cards in 2 different letters from them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't know why.


----------



## Majin

Holy moly i got back luck with earphones lately. First seller sends me the wrong earphones and the second one sent me a SHE3800 with a defective right side.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> want to hear more about Yinman HiFi (音曼) 醇净2.0 500ohm but probably not on Ali anyway!


500 Ohm


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> 500 Ohm


 






















  
 So expensive!!!
  
 Was under $60 on taobao... maybe under $50


----------



## mochill

Saw it on alexpress as well, can get a good deal of you message the seller


----------



## luedriver

good news took my cygnus off the burner and no more weird frequency points, I think it was about 48 hours of burn in (1 hour pink noise + 10 quiet on repeat)
  
 on other news using the online tone generator with my cygnus, my iphone with app, I was surprised to see how accurate it was at showing the exact frequency played, from 63hz to 20Khz
  
 when playing pink noise via pc I could see 3 slight peaks at about 4k 8k and 10k, which after that it rolls off till 20k,  I'm guessing at about 10 decibel difference, the rest is a flat ruler from 62 to 3Khz
  
 I only wish I could measure them even better, but those who can say that earbuds can't be measured the same as other headphones, or so I have read, so the readings I get are far from ideal, even with a quiet room there is still a 40+ decibel noise reading


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
> 
> So expensive!!!
> 
> Was under $60 on taobao... maybe under $50


i have discount for head-fi to $79


----------



## teston

Maybe @ClieOS can give us some impressions about the Yinman 500 Ohm.
 I saw he posted the picture of it


----------



## golov17

teston said:


> Maybe @ClieOS
> can give us some impressions about the Yinman 500 Ohm.
> I saw he posted the picture of it


yes, please, master


----------



## Frederick Wang

Hey, Remax RM305, anyone interested?


----------



## Frederick Wang

majin said:


> Holy moly i got back luck with earphones lately. First seller sends me the wrong earphones and the second one sent me a SHE3800 with a defective right side.


 
 I ordered a backup E808+ several days ago and the seller mailed me an E808
 It's like epidemic
 There, there.


----------



## golov17

frederick wang said:


> Hey, Remax RM305, anyone interested?


i have them


----------



## Frederick Wang

golov17 said:


> i have them


 
 How are they? maybe compared to PT15 or Monk?


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> frederick wang said:
> 
> 
> > Hey, Remax RM305, anyone interested?
> ...


 
 I have them too with MIC


----------



## golov17

frederick wang said:


> How are they? maybe compared to PT15 or Monk?


other, but i prefer rm303


----------



## ForceMajeure

Not directly related to earbuds but the guys here know what I am talking about 
  
 Seems like Aiwa is back!


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, decided to pick up https://smile.amazon.com/Leather-earphone-GILBANO-perfect-audiophiles/dp/B01AWZEC2Y/ for my Rose Masya, at least until I find something I like better.  I must admit, it's a gorgeous case.  The leather's great, same with the zipper, plus it has a bit more room than most inexpensive earphone cases I pick up.  It's also incredibly sturdy feeling, with a little bit of a cushion behind the leather.  At first, the case was $50, which completely killed any desire I had to get it, but recently the price dropped to $20, which was enough for me to be willing to give it a try.  Seems a little silly to have a $20 case when all I really need is an inexpensive one, but it really has a high end feel to me.


----------



## mochill

golov17 said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
> ...


I got it for cheaper


----------



## mochill

Newest YINMAN 150ohm Earbuds Wooden HIFI Earphone High Impendence Headset Better Than Monk Earburd Flat Plug
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/32780244131/32780244131.html 
(from AliExpress Android)found it on a different store


----------



## fairx

mochill said:


> Newest YINMAN 150ohm Earbuds Wooden HIFI Earphone High Impendence Headset Better Than Monk Earburd Flat Plug
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/32780244131/32780244131.html
> (from AliExpress Android)found it on a different store


is that real wood?


----------



## golov17

mochill said:


> Newest YINMAN 150ohm Earbuds Wooden HIFI Earphone High Impendence Headset Better Than Monk Earburd Flat Plug
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/32780244131/32780244131.html
> (from AliExpress Android)found it on a different store


150 Ohm vs 500 Ohm


----------



## golov17

fairx said:


> is that real wood?


yep


----------



## haiku

What do you guys think about the new Apple Airpods? Does anybody pull the trigger and order them?


----------



## JASru

As I see it there are three models of Yinman - 150, 500 and 640 Ohm.
 So far we have one owner of 150Ohm and one owner of 500Ohm. 
 Correct?


----------



## JASru

Small note to those who might be interested - the Auglamour AMP (AG-GR01) is available on Ali with quite reasonable pricing and quite flashy looks. Given the price I wouldn't expect much, but I guess i would pull the trigger. On some photos I have seen dip-8 sockets, but not sure if they made it into production units + I don't know if the screws that hold the shell  would be hex, normal or unopenable.

 edit: p.s. sorry for the o.t.


----------



## Zelda

RX-1 review is up for those who care 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 *LINK*


----------



## Taggerung

forcemajeure said:


> Not directly related to earbuds but the guys here know what I am talking about
> 
> Seems like Aiwa is back!


 
 The Exos-9 has been out for about a year and a half now. I went with 2x JBL Xtremes for the portability. That channel only gets content when they are contacted by people needing some advertisement.


----------



## ryanjsoo

haiku said:


> What do you guys think about the new Apple Airpods? Does anybody pull the trigger and order them?


 
 They're supposed to be acoustically identical to the wired earpods. Those were early units though so things might have changed with the retail release. 
  
 Also what sound signature do the 1More E1008 have exactly? I couldn't find too many impressions. Are they comfortable (and could I sleep on them?). Any answers would help me out, thanks in advance.


----------



## ClieOS

vapman said:


> I can easily recommend the Yinman Hifi 150 ohm. I would love to see what @ClieOS  thinks of the 500 ohm model. The 150 sounds like a very refined SHE3800, so the sound signature is familiar to many here, but far better in every way than the SHE3800
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Warm and smooth, and a bit too smooth to my liking. If it is any more smoother than it is now, it would have almost sounded dull. I haven't spent much time on it, but early impression puts it among the middle of Great.
    
 Quote:


ryanjsoo said:


> Also what sound signature do the 1More E1008 have exactly? I couldn't find too many impressions. Are they comfortable (and could I sleep on them?). Any answers would help me out, thanks in advance.


 
  


clieos said:


> First impression: a small upgrade over EO320, but not by a lot. I'll say it is probably still in the scope of 'Great'. Sound signature is closer to that of EO303, rather than EO320 - that it has a warmer, thicker and smoother presentation., but at least it doesn't feel veil like EO303. Overall I feel quite positive about the new E1008, but it is not the Champion/Contender level earbud I was hoping for. Will burn it in and see how it goes.


 
  
 I burnt it in for 100 hrs or so though I didn't hear any obvious change in sound signature, thus my opinion about it stays the same. It feel quite comfortable to my ears (*I use the stock silicone sleeves that come with it).


----------



## Willber

zelda said:


> RX-1 review is up for those who care
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks. I like reviews even if I don't fully agree with them.


----------



## vapman

jasru said:


> As I see it there are three models of Yinman - 150, 500 and 640 Ohm.
> So far we have one owner of 150Ohm and one owner of 500Ohm.
> Correct?


 
 Wow I wanna know about the 640 ohm. I love my 150 still. Very enjoyable sound. Curious how the 500 stacks up though.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Wow I wanna know about the 640 ohm. I love my 150 still. Very enjoyable sound. Curious how the 500 stacks up though.


soon i have 150 & 500, 600 with detachable cable, not interested


----------



## ryanjsoo

clieos said:


> I burnt it in for 100 hrs or so though I didn't hear any obvious change in sound signature, thus my opinion about it stays the same. It feel quite comfortable to my ears (*I use the stock silicone sleeves that come with it).


 
  
 Would you say that it's comparable to the Shozy Cygnus in sound quality? So the sound signature is darker and warmer than neutral, I'm assuming treble has a bit of a bump though, sorry, just want to clarify before I pull the trigger.


----------



## vapman

ryanjsoo said:


> Would you say that it's comparable to the Shozy Cygnus in sound quality? So the sound signature is darker and warmer than neutral, I'm assuming treble has a bit of a bump though, sorry, just want to clarify before I pull the trigger.


 
 150 is pretty similar to Cygnus but is darker yet has better treble extension and much better bass. I don't know the other models


----------



## JASru

golov17 said:


> soon i have 150 & 500, 600 with detachable cable, not interested


 Why? The detachable cable is a joy-killer? )


----------



## haiku

clieos said:


> I burnt it in for 100 hrs or so though I didn't hear any obvious change in sound signature, thus my opinion about it stays the same. It feel quite comfortable to my ears (*I use the stock silicone sleeves that come with it).


 

 In the end, I found the E1008 to be worse sounding than the EO320. Maybe I´m just more of a "Full Range Driver" Fan. All my experiences with multi driver earphones were bad so far.


----------



## golov17

jasru said:


> Why? The detachable cable is a joy-killer? )


 not fan mmcx


----------



## luedriver

measuring earbuds a bit more seriously, (as seriously as one can with an iphone),
  
 I can see consistencies and similarities between earbuds, the most surprising being the cygnus and the rx-1,
  
 which have very similar looking graphs yet the sound of the cygnus seems more fuller and less bright sounding than the rx-1
  
 the similarities between the hp-32 and the hp650 are even more apparent, as the hp-650 fills in all the gaps and flattens the sound sig of the hp32
  
 cheap philips earbuds that I use with full foams or without the factory's rubber cover sound better and it shows with dips filling out in the midrange and lower treble
  
also, the inconsistency of the she3800's, having 2 and each having their own sound sig
  
and the philips she3200 (inspired by earpods) has almost the same sound signature as the apple earpods, but have slightly more extended midrange


----------



## AudioNewbi3

luedriver said:


> measuring earbuds a bit more seriously, (as seriously as one can with an iphone),
> 
> I can see consistencies and similarities between earbuds, the most surprising being the cygnus and the rx-1,
> 
> ...


 
 How do you measure your earbuds? Do you buy some kind of apparatus?


----------



## luedriver

audionewbi3 said:


> How do you measure your earbuds? Do you buy some kind of apparatus?


 
 iphone app and iphone's mic, and pink noise
  
 it kinda works for comparing earbuds (since no seal is necessary) but the graph itself is spaced more evenly than a graph used for measuring headphones, also it would be better with a faux ear and a more professional mic, but this satisfies my curiosity enough for now


----------



## AudioNewbi3

luedriver said:


> iphone app and iphone's mic, and pink noise
> 
> it kinda works for comparing earbuds (since no seal is necessary) but the graph itself is spaced more evenly than a graph used for measuring headphones, also it would be better with a faux ear and a more professional mic, but this satisfies my curiosity enough for now


 
 Oh nice! Wonder if android has it hmmm.....


----------



## ClieOS

ryanjsoo said:


> Would you say that it's comparable to the Shozy Cygnus in sound quality? So the sound signature is darker and warmer than neutral, I'm assuming treble has a bit of a bump though, sorry, just want to clarify before I pull the trigger.


 
  
  
 No, I'll say Shozy Cygnus is noticeably better overall. There are some decent treble detail in E1008, despite being dominated by the mid/bass of the dynamic driver. However, I won't say it has any significant treble bump anyway.


----------



## Ira Delphic

audionewbi3 said:


> luedriver said:
> 
> 
> > measuring earbuds a bit more seriously, (as seriously as one can with an iphone),
> ...


 
  
 I'm glad somebody brought that up! Check out sound measurement using ARTA software - 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/764618/lg-quadbeat-3-impressions-thread/375#post_12968875
  
 Here's the software:
 http://www.artalabs.hr/
  
 It would be good to use this in addition to using our own ears for testing. Using both methods are desirable IMO as opposed to one or the other.
 There's other software as well - http://www.artalabs.hr/faqs.htm


----------



## Fabi

K's 500
 Quickstep on high gain, on high-current consumption mode, on 13V PSU (26 Vpp, ~9.1Vrms)
 >>>> Heaven


----------



## BloodyPenguin

fabi said:


> K's 500
> Quickstep on high gain, on high-current consumption mode, on 13V PSU (26 Vpp, ~9.1Vrms)
> >>>> Heaven


 

 Thoughts on the sound of the K's 500?
  
 --


----------



## Taggerung

So just dove into the world of earbuds with the Shozy Stardust. I've not used anything prior, not even the famed apple ear buds/pods. Hope the results are what I predict, extensively vented iems like the Sony MDR EX series.


----------



## mochill

Great first choice


----------



## Fabi

bloodypenguin said:


> Thoughts on the sound of the K's 500?
> 
> --


 
 Briefly, amped like this, I don't hear any lack in sound.
 Wide and immersive soundstage, like open headphones.
 Bass is very deep and well textured, full midrange, treble with sparkle but no sibilant.
 Great (micro) details, separation, extension, the right body/thickness. Balanced sound.
 I have tried it with several genres, it sounds excellent.
  
 If overpowered, bass will blur.
 If underpowered, soundstage is narrower, therefore bass may be slightly too present and treble too hot.
 Adding power helps to widen soundstage, more confortable.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

fabi said:


> Briefly, amped like this, I don't hear any lack in sound.
> Wide and immersive soundstage, like open headphones.
> Bass is very deep and well textured, full midrange, treble with sparkle but no sibilant.
> Great (micro) details, separation, extension, the right body/thickness. Balanced sound.
> ...


 
  
 Wow, you just confirmed all of my feelings about my K's 500, this is exactly how I am hearing it as well.  I appreciate your thoughts and you said them much more eloquently than I ever could.
  
 --


----------



## Fabi

bloodypenguin said:


> Wow, you just confirmed all of my feelings about my K's 500, this is exactly how I am hearing it as well.  I appreciate your thoughts and you said them much more eloquently than I ever could.
> 
> --


 
 I am just a humble disciple of The Master 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and the Lord


----------



## teston

fabi said:


> Briefly, amped like this, I don't hear any lack in sound.
> Wide and immersive soundstage, like open headphones.
> Bass is very deep and well textured, full midrange, treble with sparkle but no sibilant.
> Great (micro) details, separation, extension, the right body/thickness. Balanced sound.
> ...



Wow, can't wait to try out my K's 500. It's still on the way. Idk if my current setup can bring out its potential.


----------



## luckyeights

So I have had my Rose Masyas for a while now and they keep sounding better and better every time i listen to them.  Its almost like they are not even earbuds anymore but something of their own class. The only earbuds i really have left that i want to try are the shozy stardusts but i dont know if they will be this good though how could they be?  
  
  
 Now the Masya is an amazing earbud but i want to make it clear i have EQed mine because stock they lack bass and highs tend to be a little overwhelming stock.  But these EQ very well and once EQed to your liking they will not disappoint.  There is just something about them that just makes you want to sit and listen to them for extended periods.


----------



## Majin

Does anybody like the Philips SHE3800? I received one but the right side is defective. So I am listening with only the left side and the bass has a weird rumble and the sound is quite thin.


----------



## JASru

majin said:


> Does anybody like the Philips SHE3800? I received one but the right side is defective. So I am listening with only the left side and the bass has a weird rumble and the sound is quite thin.


 
 Well, given their price they are decent. I liked them more then Monk+.


----------



## dwayniac

I bought my first pair of earbuds,the Auglamour RX-1. I have been curious about earbuds and only chose the RX-1 because I am a Auglamour fanboy. The R8 is my flagship and the RS-1 was for jazz until I bought the RX-1. The RX-1 sounds good but earbuds in general are a one trick pony for me. I prefer an IEM that seals for punchy bass.


----------



## AT Khan

dwayniac said:


> I bought my first pair of earbuds,the Auglamour RX-1. I have been curious about earbuds and only chose the RX-1 because I am a Auglamour fanboy. The R8 is my flagship and the RS-1 was for jazz until I bought the RX-1. The RX-1 sounds good but earbuds in general are a one trick pony for me. I prefer an IEM that seals for punchy bass.


 

 If you crave for bass, go for the TY HiZ 32 ohms. No it doesn't seal any better, but soundstage is nice. Bass you ask? AS GOOD AS closed, sealed IEMs. Oh yes baby. You won't believe the bass on those things (I was like, can open, leaky earbuds even do that, still)?

 Ans: Yes they can.


----------



## vapman

at khan said:


> If you crave for bass, go for the TY HiZ 32 ohms. No it doesn't seal any better, but soundstage is nice. Bass you ask? AS GOOD AS closed, sealed IEMs. Oh yes baby. You won't believe the bass on those things (I was like, can open, leaky earbuds even do that, still)?
> 
> Ans: Yes they can.


 
 I don't agree with a single statement here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 AT Khan has not tried the Qian39 or E808+ which I am assuming based on the opinions expressed... and not even my extra bass modded Qian39 can not come close to what a sealed IEM can do. Well, depends on the IEM you are comparing it to as well I guess... I don't think it's even possible to hear a E808+ or Q39 and think the TY 32 still has big bass.
  
@Majin The SHE3800 is great but when I bought mine I bought three because it had been mentioned here several times by other people that they were kinda of a crapshoot as to whether they'd be good or not. I guess some got ones with one side not working like yours, or otherwise sounding less than ideal. I bought 3, opened 2 both of which sound good, and one is still sealed, so hoping that one isn't bad. But if it is, it's probably more likely the cable being badly attached than the driver being bad, just because the wire hooking these earbuds up is so crazy thin.


----------



## AT Khan

vapman said:


> at khan said:
> 
> 
> > If you crave for bass, go for the TY HiZ 32 ohms. No it doesn't seal any better, but soundstage is nice. Bass you ask? AS GOOD AS closed, sealed IEMs. Oh yes baby. You won't believe the bass on those things (I was like, can open, leaky earbuds even do that, still)?
> ...


 

 Hmmm well you have more experience and may no more. To me, the TY certainly outsmarts my V-Moda Bass Freq Metal (sealed IEMs) in every way, including (to my surprise) bass. Maybe you're talking about other, BETTER IEMs, in which case I take back what I said.


----------



## ryanjsoo

Despite what others have said I've put in an order for the E1008, I suppose at least the build and design will appeal to me even if the sound quality isn't quite what I'm looking for (I have the Shozy Stardust for that anyway). I'll write up a review shortly after I get them in with plenty of comparisons to the Shozy Cygnus which I believe to be one of the most relevant contenders at the same price. I needed an earbud with remote functionality and, despite having some experience with recabling and cable making, I'm not quite willing to butcher my Cygnus just yet, the stock cable is just too nice!


----------



## ClieOS

While they might not make the best sounding earbuds around, 1MORE does have an excellent reputation of build quality.


----------



## audio123

Been out of this earbud game quite some time.
Whats the best earbud now.


----------



## vapman

Haven't you had enough different gear to know there's never one best option for anything? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe we can help you with a little more specificity.
  


taggerung said:


> So just dove into the world of earbuds with the Shozy Stardust. I've not used anything prior, not even the famed apple ear buds/pods. Hope the results are what I predict, extensively vented iems like the Sony MDR EX series.


  
  
 I always thought the 7550/800st had some tonal similarities to the Cygnus but the Cygnus was a bit less  extended. One day I might pass along my Cygnus to a friend if I'm the mood to drop $ on some new buds, and already got myself a set of Cypheruses.
  
@Danneq - I know this isn't the Cypherus thread but feels appropriate to ask here. Now that you've had some good time with all 3 Cypherus buds... how are you finding the QFred vs CampFred directly from various DAPs you've been using? Anything you've been listening to for reference is great. I'm especially interested to know how the QFred does with bass depth on your more powerful DAPs, or anything you're EQing the bass up a bit on. sorry for the detailed Q?


----------



## mints




----------



## luedriver

found some earbuds at a local thrift store
  

  
  
 with a bit of searching, I found that they look like old sony but it doesn't say sony anywhere on them
  

  
  
 instead, it either says mii or iiw depending on how you look at it
  
 the cable is thin and stiff with a lot of memory to the wire,
  
 I tried to measure them and saw that left and right earbud were very different, the left was more flat and the right has a peak at about 3Khz and a dip after, 
  
 after cleanig them a bit I tried them and it was obvious that the right was a bit more louder than the left
  
 they only cost $1.5 so I don't regret it. its just a part of the risk of buying at a thrift shop


----------



## haiku

clieos said:


> While they might not make the best sounding earbuds around, 1MORE does have an excellent reputation of build quality.


 

 Still open for debate if there exists anything like "the best sounding earbud" in the first place.....


----------



## Bloodember

Does anyone make a bluetooth earbud?   I don't want in ear and that's all I can find.


----------



## golov17

bloodember said:


> Does anyone make a bluetooth earbud?   I don't want in ear and that's all I can find.


 http://www.sonymobile.com/global-en/products/accessories/stereo-bluetooth-headset-sbh70/
 http://www.sonymobile.com/global-en/products/accessories/stereo-bluetooth-headset-sbh54/


----------



## Bloodember

golov17 said:


> http://www.sonymobile.com/global-en/products/accessories/stereo-bluetooth-headset-sbh70/
> http://www.sonymobile.com/global-en/products/accessories/stereo-bluetooth-headset-sbh54/


 
 The sbh70's might work, that design normally don't stay in my ear.  I might try them, anything else though?  The other, I don't want an extra device to just use Bluetooth.


----------



## Danneq

dwayniac said:


> I bought my first pair of earbuds,the Auglamour RX-1. I have been curious about earbuds and only chose the RX-1 because I am a Auglamour fanboy. The R8 is my flagship and the RS-1 was for jazz until I bought the RX-1. The RX-1 sounds good but earbuds in general are a one trick pony for me. I prefer an IEM that seals for punchy bass.


 

 RX-1 is quite bass shy even for an earbud, so it would be a bit early to judge the bass of earbuds from RX-1. It needs plenty of EQ to just get decent bass. But the focus of RX-1 is on mids and I find them to be quite good for a mid centric earbuds. I sold my pair mainly because of the soundstage which was too confined and small, and the lack of bass. 

 Like vapman writes, Qian39 is cheap and has got great bass. Not like on an IEM, but bass isn't what earbuds do best. Rather it's an open feel and airiness that is the speciality of earbuds. If you want bass and microdetail you go with IEMs, if you want a sense of a big soundstage earbuds is a much better option.

 So, you can start with the cheap Qian39 (around $6) and then try to find out which earbuds have got good bass.

 By the way, I ordered 5 pairs of Qian39 the other day. One for myself and four to give away. With shipping it came to a little less than $30...
  


audio123 said:


> Been out of this earbud game quite some time.
> Whats the best earbud now.


 
 Going by ClieOS's list and adding a few of my own I would say:

 Shozy Stardust
 Rose Mojito
 K's 500ohm
 Rose Masya

 Zen 2 black (haven't heard that one but still add it)
 TY HiZ HP650
 Cypherus CampFred
 Cypherus QFred (mainly a mid centric earbud for vocals but works with many genres, except for metal)
 Cypherus CAX black (if you can find a pair)

  
  


vapman said:


> @Danneq - I know this isn't the Cypherus thread but feels appropriate to ask here. Now that you've had some good time with all 3 Cypherus buds... how are you finding the QFred vs CampFred directly from various DAPs you've been using? Anything you've been listening to for reference is great. I'm especially interested to know how the QFred does with bass depth on your more powerful DAPs, or anything you're EQing the bass up a bit on. sorry for the detailed Q?


 

 I find that both CampFred and QFred works well with different DAPs. It's just different music genres that QFred might object to. So far only metal does not work at all on QFred for me.
 CampFred has got a much better bass depth than QFred. I'd say that only Zen 1 can beat CampFred when it comes to that, But QFred is far from something like AuGlamour RX-1. Bass is pretty good, just not too deep. It responds well to EQing. I have not gone to vapman-levels of bass boosting but if you boost frequencies below 60-70hz with a few dB you will notice it.
  


haiku said:


> Still open for debate if there exists anything like "the best sounding earbud" in the first place.....


 
  
 A lot of it is subjective and also depends on what style of music you listen to, source etc etc.

 If you go by certain criteria such as how bass, mids and treble is presented, soundstage, instrument separation & placement, imaging etc, some are certainly better than others.

 But then personal preference also comes in to the equation...


----------



## haiku

danneq said:


> A lot of it is subjective and also depends on what style of music you listen to, source etc etc.
> 
> If you go by certain criteria such as how bass, mids and treble is presented, soundstage, instrument separation & placement, imaging etc, some are certainly better than others.
> 
> But then personal preference also comes in to the equation...


 
 I would call it different criteria. For me, most important is what some call "plankton", which means how much gear can "step out of it´s own way" to let the essence of the music come through..... Judging the quality of an earbud just in terms of "Performance of highs/mids/lows" never worked for me.


----------



## Danneq

haiku said:


> I would call it different criteria. For me, most important is what some call "plankton", which means how much gear can "step out of it´s own way" to let the essence of the music come through..... Judging the quality of an earbud just in terms of "Performance of highs/mids/lows" never worked for me.


 


 But how do you know that it is the essence of the music and not some sort of coloration? I prefer earbuds with a laid back sound that doesn't "push" anything on you. But are they without coloration? I'm not so sure...


----------



## haiku

danneq said:


> But how do you know that it is the essence of the music and not some sort of coloration? I prefer earbuds with a laid back sound that doesn't "push" anything on you. But are they without coloration? I'm not so sure...


 

 The moment you´re listening to the music ONLY, and don´t think about the sound anymore. The moment your "Analyzer" suddenly becomes silent..... Then the essence is there.


----------



## Taggerung

Earbud newbie here. Do they exhibit the same microphonics as iems do when worn cable down? If so, can they be comfortably worn over the ear? Still waiting on mine to arrive, so just thought I'd ask.


----------



## ClieOS

haiku said:


> The moment you´re listening to the music ONLY, and don´t think about the sound anymore. The moment your "Analyzer" suddenly becomes silent..... Then the essence is there.


 
  
 I went to a fairly reputable Chinese orchestra's live performance once and has the recording as well (done by an audiophile recording company). The moment when I listened to the recording via a headphone and able to immerse myself back into the exact (and even just a fraction of that) feeling I had with the live performance, that's where the headphone really captures the essence of the performance - I am not referring to the general 'music' here because that is too mood dependent. I can listen and dance to music on FM radio, and that obviously has nothing to do with whether FM radio has captured the essence of the music or not, but just me enjoying good music.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

A new toy to play with. I still have to burn it in a bit longer before I talk about the sound signature. Just got it tonight. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Penon Audio Earbud: http://penonaudio.com/PENON-IEM (Click Earbud +$5.00). These can only be ordered as an add on item.
  

  
 --


----------



## Saoshyant

I wonder if maybe I have a slight fit issue with the Qian39, because while the bass is decent, I'd say it's more prevalent on the Hi-Z 32 to my ears.  Might have to double foam or something.
  
  


bloodypenguin said:


> A new toy to play with. I still have to burn it in a bit longer before I talk about the sound signature. Just got it tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Also a quick question as I've never tried getting their add on.  Do I need to wait for some form of price adjustment, or does it happen automatically as long as you order something else?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I also just got the *HE 150ohm* Earbud from Penon Audio as well. 

 Here is a teaser shot from my photo-shoot, I should have the full review up by early next week:


  
 --


----------



## BloodyPenguin

saoshyant said:


> I wonder if maybe I have a slight fit issue with the Qian39, because while the bass is decent, I'd say it's more prevalent on the Hi-Z 32 to my ears.  Might have to double foam or something.
> 
> 
> 
> Also a quick question as I've never tried getting their add on.  Do I need to wait for some form of price adjustment, or does it happen automatically as long as you order something else?


 
  
 Just add any non-accessory item to your cart, then add the Penon Audio Earbud and the price will automatically adjust from $99 to $14.99.

 --


----------



## Saoshyant

Danke, glad it's easy enough to handle.  I was planning on ordering the Hi-Z 32S, so I will most likely order the Penon earbud as well.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

saoshyant said:


> Danke, glad it's easy enough to handle.  I was planning on ordering the Hi-Z 32S, so I will most likely order the Penon earbud as well.


 
  
 I have the Hi-Z 32 (Version 2) in transit.  Now the 32s comes out!  Ha... Guess I will be ordering the newest version soon as well.  Ha...

 --


----------



## Saoshyant

Did you take any initial listen of the Penon earbud, or was it put straight to burner?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

saoshyant said:


> Did you take any initial listen of the Penon earbud, or was it put straight to burner?


 
  
 I always listen to all my earbuds before I burn them in, just to see how much they change (if any).  Though I don't like to post up my initial findings in case the signature does change after burn-in.
  
 The only thing I will say about them, is for me, they are the most comfortable earbuds I have ever worn.  They also stay in place really well without me having to fidget with them at all. 
  
 --


----------



## Danneq

haiku said:


> I would call it different criteria. For me, most important is what some call "plankton", which means how much gear can "step out of it´s own way" to let the essence of the music come through..... Judging the quality of an earbud just in terms of "Performance of highs/mids/lows" never worked for me.


 


 It still is good to know if an earbud has got more focus on lows or mids or highs. Different people have different preferences and you could say that one man's treasure is another's garbage. Knowing that K500 was a bit peaky in the upper mids might have been good for you to know before buying them. Still, it's best to at least roughly know a reviewer's preferences when it comes to sound. A treblehead might think that an earbud has got soft treble but to someone else that treble might be like razors.

 The best way is to buy and try but not everyone has got the money or will to do that so then other people's reviews and impressions are good as guides. In that case listing different criteria (bass, mids, treble, soundstage etc) can be helpful.


----------



## Saoshyant

Any other suggestions for a Penon order? May as well get a few if there's something worth trying.


----------



## golov17

...share their experiences, because they want to, not because they have to...


----------



## Danneq

And following that post, here is the comparison between the Indonesian fantastic five: CAX black edition, CampFred, QFred, Red De'mun and Edimun V3:


 (*Note: please take this with a grain of salt since these are my subjective impressions*)

  
*Bass*
 Edimun V3 = CampFred > CAX Black > Red De'mun > QFred

*Edimun *is like a baby Zen 1 with pretty deep bass (and some actual sub bass). Not as deep as on Zen 1 but it's definitely pushed into the front of the music (without dominating too much like bass on Zen 1 sometimes can do). *CampFred *has got great sub bass as well, but the bass is more integrated into the music compared to Edimun V3. When bass is emphasized in the music you will notice it more on the CampFreds. At other times bass goes into the background but you can still "feel" the bass unlike on earbuds with poor sub bass.
*CAX black edition* has got great sub bass that is similar to the other two, but overall bass is more neutral and you get less PRAT than with Edimun V3 and CampFred. I find bass to be more clean on CAX black than on Edimun V3 and CampFred. *Red De'mun* does not lack in any way in the bass department. I find it slightly below Edimun, CampFred and CAX but still very good both in quality and quantity. *QFred *has got very good bass quality. You can clearly hear everything. However, I feel that there less sub bass compared to the other earbuds.

  
*Mids*
 QFred > CAX black = CampFred > Red De'mun > Edimun V3

*QFred *is sold as an earbud for vocal lovers. Mids are emphasized and vocals truly sound amazing on them. The mids are well textured and there are no peaks (to my ears). *CAX black* is supremely neutral and analogue sounding. *CampFred's* mids are slightly closer to the listener and not as neutral as on CAX black. Vocals on CAX black and CampFred are similar and beautiful.* Red De'mun* has got very good mids that remind me of Sennheiser MX985. The upper mids have a slight peak to them, or is it lower treble? I detect a very small tendency toward sibilance, for example when a singer sings the letter "S". Nothing that really bothers me, but the mids are not as warm as on the three Cypherus earbuds. On *Edimun V3* the mids are slightly pushed back compared to the other earbuds, but definitely not recessed.
  

*Treble*
 CAX black > CampFred > Red De'mun = Edimun V3 > QFred
  
*CAX black* has got an amazingly clear treble without a trace of harshness. No matter what you listen to, it will not sound bright. *CampFred *has got a similar smooth but still clear treble as CAX black. Not a trace of brightness here! *Red De'mun* and* Edimun V3* are on about the same level with very well extended treble. There is a slight tendency toward slibilance on Red De'mun, but I feel it's more in the upper mids (correct me if I am wrong). *QFred *with it's focus on mids still has got very nice highs that pretty well extended and non bright. Treble and bass do take the backseat to mids though...
  

*Soundstage*
 CAX black > Red De'mun > CampFred > Edimun V3 = QFred
  
 The soundstage on* CAX black* is very wide and deep. *Red De'mun's* soundstage is as wide as the one on CAX black. I do not sense as much depth as on CAX black, though. *CampFred *has a slightly less wide soundstage than Red De'mun but more depth. The soundstage on *Edimun V3 *is more compact than the previous three but it's not confined at all. It works great for genres like rock and metal. *QFred *has got a slightly narrow soundstage but it is quite deep.
  

*Instrument separation/imaging*
 CAX black > CampFred > QFred = Red De'mun = Edimun V3

*CAX black* has got superb instrument separation. This both makes the music much more immersive, but you can also fall into an analytical mood and pick upp details (if you are in that mood). Each individual instrument is clearly defined and everything goes together very well. *CampFred* has got well above average instrument separation that together with the soundstage gives the music a 3D presentation. It is not close to CAX black but definitely in the top tier for earbuds. *QFred* with it's forward mids and relatively deep soundstage has still got above average instrument separation. *Red De'mun* is on about the same level. The deeper soundstage on QFred does make it feel like the layering of instruments is better there, but overall they are close.* Edimun V3* is also on about the same level, despite a more "compact" sort of sound.

  
*Overall*
 CAX black > CampFred > Edimun V3 > QFred > Red De'mun
  
 These are mainly my subjective preferences.* CAX black* has got no faults at all when it comes to the sound. *CampFred *is very enjoyable and a definite top contender in the earbud world. Personally I enjoy *Edimun V3*. It's like a baby VE Zen 1 that is more "tame" than Zen 1. Excellent for rock and metal. *QFred *is the most genre sensitive among these 5 earbuds. With music that is too compact it might sound off, but with music that has got more air and space in it, QFred truly shines. *Red De'mun* has got a very pleasant sound, but to me it lacks the immersiveness and/or impact of the other 4 earbuds. It is still a top contender and can compete with or beat many $100+ earbuds. It is only a small step down from Sennheiser MX985. A strange thing that I noticed is that I prefer Edimun V3 ("baby Zen 1") to Red De'mun ("baby MX985") while I prefer MX985 to Zen 1. 
 Well, neither Edimun V3 nor Red De'mun sound exactly like those other two earbuds but share the overall sound signature.


  
 By special request: how do the earbuds work with classical music?

 CAX black > QFred > Red De'mun = CampFred > Edimun V3
  
 The soundstage on *CAX black* is wide and deep and instrument separation is extremly good and this puts it in the first place for classical music for me. *QFred *with its forward mids brings violins and other instruments much closer to you but there is still a good depth in the soundstage and the instruments do not flow into each other.
*Red De'mun* has got an open sound and sounds wonderful with classical music. I'd say that to my ears it sounds better with classical music than with rock. *CampFred *is on about the same level as Red De'mun for classical music. The soundstage is slightly smaller and the presentation is a bit softer, so there Red De'mun wins. But the overall timbre of instruments on CampFred to me is more natural (that nice analogue Cypherus sound). Classical music works on *Edimun V3*, but I would pick any of the other four before V3 for classical...


----------



## Danneq

I did not write all of that now. The last week or two I have been working on this with a break for a while until I could get the time to compare the earbuds on classical music.


----------



## SuperMAG

If only it costed 80 instead of 280 lol


----------



## DrWhite

actually loving my zen 2.0 and according to clieOS's list lots of stuff obove it, but really wanna see a comparison between zen black and cax black, actually i can only buy zen black. because cax black is out of stock now.
  
 i listened mx985 and zen 2.0 
  
 mx985 is technically superior to zen 2.0 in subbass and treble extension department but zen has lots of body and really beautiful vocals,  i like it more.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Do you guys recommend a budget DAP over using Mobile Phones as a Music Player? I have an old Samsung S5 and a stock Sansa Clip Zip for Music. I'm considering an upgrade but don't know what route to go with. either get bigger storage or a DAP like FiiO & xDuoo.


----------



## Danneq

supermag said:


> If only it costed 80 instead of 280 lol


 


 It would be great to find an earbud for $80 that can almost compete with $1500+ headphones (at least according to a guy in the Cypherus thread who owns CAX black and Audeze LCD-X)

  


drwhite said:


> actually loving my zen 2.0 and according to clieOS's list lots of stuff obove it, but really wanna see a comparison between zen black and cax black, actually i can only buy zen black. because cax black is out of stock now.
> 
> i listened mx985 and zen 2.0
> 
> mx985 is technically superior to zen 2.0 in subbass and treble extension department but zen has lots of body and really beautiful vocals,  i like it more.


 

 Zen 2 is focused on mids so you should try QFred as well. To my ears that is the best mid centric earbud...


----------



## DrWhite

i have rx1 too it is also midcentric, need i think more balanced stuff maybe campfred, maybe both campfred and qfred


----------



## Danneq

drwhite said:


> i have rx1 too it is also midcentric, need i think more balanced stuff maybe campfred, maybe both campfred and qfred


 


 Both are great, but honestly I think the price should be reversed for the two, or at least CampFred should be more expensive. QFred is great but more limited since it's focused on mids. 

 Perhaps $130 for QFred and $160 for CampFred would be more resonable than $200 for QFred and $150 for CampFred. But of course the maker gets to decide the price...


----------



## DrWhite

or both for 100 bucks


----------



## haiku

danneq said:


> It still is good to know if an earbud has got more focus on lows or mids or highs.


 
 If my gear would make me think about that, I would immediately know it´s in the way of the true sound because then I would forever be caught in the analyzing of high/mids/lows, and could not focus on the music itself.
  
 Back on topic!


----------



## Tonx

My impressions on K's 64 Ohm:

  
 I really like the carry case, it's really positively bulky. Compared to "standart" chinese carry case:
 
  
  
 I wish K's would have more beautiful housings! But cable is ok, it looks like KZ's (ZST in my case) cable, but isn't really the same:

  
 ZST's cable is thicker and less flexible between the Y-splitter and housing compared to K's's cable. K's's cable is a bit better IMHO.

 My first earbud was **** PT15 and I wasn't impressed with it, nothing special after my usual iem's. K's is another case, I was impressed with quantity of sound, it's like the wall or stream of sound after iem's and PT15. At first, it was hella hard to figure out if there are any nuances in the sound. I has really to get used to such sound. Sound is full, it has body. But in the same time sound is detailed and not muddy at all. I think words "rich sound" match perfect in this case, sound is musically rich on nuances.

 Сoncerning detail - it is really important if you get used to such sound or not. At first PT15 seemed to have better detail in mids-hights. But then it's become clear that this ****'s advantage is caused by bright sound signature.PT15 is bass lite, focus is on higher frequences. K's has good amount of bass, mids are not recessed too, vocals are accentuated and cymbals,triangle,bells and some sorts of  chimes are slightly recessed in the case if they are not prominent in record itself. But if you focus on this, you see that these elements doesn't suffer in terms of quality.

 Bass and percussion has good texture. You can discern tonal nuances and bass has good separation (Here comes **** DT2+ to my mind. In some difficult compositions there are no tonal differens to hear between percussion instruments ( different drums I mean) sometimes; bass guitar can sound like a mess too).

 Vocals is pretty good, natural and gently forward. Vocals is always present, nothing overwhelms it, separation is surprisingly good here.

 And most interesting part for me, K's has some particular trait compared to my iem's and PT15. Each first sound of instruments is slightly accented, it something what you can not only hear, but also feel. It's like light impact, blow or gentle puncture depending on instrument. I've experienced that before, on solo drums with dynamic iem's and on hight frequency percussion with hybrids. But in case with K's i can feel it on the chords of an acoustic guitar, on flute and piano etc. It really makes the sound attractive. Idk, maybe it's just common earbuds option, but it was something new to me.

 In my opinion K's 64 suit for most genres, except maybe genres with subbas hitting hard.
 Sorry for my English
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Source - XDuoo X3 and Hidizs AP100


----------



## Danneq

haiku said:


> If my gear would make me think about that, I would immediately know it´s in the way of the true sound because then I would forever be caught in the analyzing of high/mids/lows, and could not focus on the music itself.
> 
> Back on topic!


 


 No, I mean that it's good to know that before you buy something. Otherwise you would not have had any problems with K500, right?


----------



## pack21

Very very good.

 Much better than PT15 and i envy that my MX985 doesn't have such good comfort and fit, they lose so much points for that.


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> And following that post, here is the comparison between the Indonesian fantastic five: CAX black edition, CampFred, QFred, Red De'mun and Edimun V3:


 
  
 This is your opus magnum Daniel. Your comparison is complete so I really don't have any more questions. I can only imagine how much time you sacrificed but I'm sure you had fun. Thank you very much!


----------



## Danneq

drwhite said:


> or both for 100 bucks


 

 I would like the new Sony NW-WM1Z for $500! Both CampFred and QFred are worth the high price, but usually mid centric earbuds are priced lower...

  


tomasz2d said:


> This is your opus magnum Daniel. Your comparison is complete so I really don't have any more questions. I can only imagine how much time you sacrificed but I'm sure you had fun. Thank you very much!


 

 Now I can retire from Head fi!

 I'm too lazy to write reviews, however I think it's fun to compare earbuds. It does take time and concentration and if I do it for too long everything becomes a jumble in my head...


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> drwhite said:
> 
> 
> > or both for 100 bucks
> ...


Don't forget me buddy.

u have a worthy competitor ...!!


----------



## mochill

drwhite said:


> actually loving my zen 2.0 and according to clieOS's list lots of stuff obove it, but really wanna see a comparison between zen black and cax black, actually i can only buy zen black. because cax black is out of stock now.
> 
> i listened mx985 and zen 2.0
> 
> mx985 is technically superior to zen 2.0 in subbass and treble extension department but zen has lots of body and really beautiful vocals,  i like it more.


go for the Zen black


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> Don't forget me buddy.
> 
> u have a worthy competitor ...!!




I meant the long post where I compared the 5 Indonesian earbuds. Not much more to write now (but of course I will. ).

You will soon be the only one with the two black edition giants...


----------



## Moscow

It would be great to find an earbud for $80 that can almost compete with $1500+ headphones (at least according to a guy in the Cypherus thread who owns CAX black and Audeze LCD-X)

Bet it was just a wow-effect, not a matter of fact. What doesn't make Cax any worse or better. It's brilliant for sure.


----------



## Moscow

Depends on budget. Hidizs AP100 is good enough as all-around player.
By you can stick with http://www.encore-av.com/main/products/mdsd-detail what makes any smartphone better than lots of players.


----------



## dearyon

to those who want to mod their pt15, the driver won't fit on mx500 housing
picture above is comparison with monk+ driver, the pt15 are slightly smaller
maybe yuin housing would fit


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Don't forget me buddy.
> ...


Lol, by the way u can also have both..

those who owns cax , can own zen black..
but not the vice versa..
luckily, i pulled the trigger at right moment ...


----------



## Willber

pack21 said:


> Very very good.
> 
> Much better than PT15 and i envy that my MX985 doesn't have such good comfort and fit, they lose so much points for that.


 
  
 SHE3800, yes? If you like those you should try the Qian39.


----------



## Karl2009

vapman said:


> Are one of those the adidas model? Pretty good but not amazing in any way


 
 The Adidas model is the MX675, good sound and good fixing to the ear.
 I have also the MX475 and sound is quite good. I agree, those sennheissers are quite cheap and good and they are not particularly mentioned. I have found both in the Sennheisser outlet store.


----------



## pack21

willber said:


> SHE3800, yes? If you like those you should try the Qian39.




Yes they are, and im very positive impressed.

Yeap qian are on way too.


----------



## Willber

pack21 said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > SHE3800, yes? If you like those you should try the Qian39.
> ...


 
  
 Good man! SHE are good but I prefer the Qian for deeper bass and smoother treble. Slightly smaller so more comfortable for me as well.


----------



## pack21

willber said:


> Good man! SHE are good but I prefer the Qian for deeper bass and smoother treble. Slightly smaller so more comfortable for me as well.




Good news then.

 For the price i paid for MX985 i hate them for the bad fit/confort they have i think is caused by the big height of mental parts.


----------



## Ira Delphic

karl2009 said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > Are one of those the adidas model? Pretty good but not amazing in any way
> ...


 
  
  
 I wrote about the MX 680 below. Evidently not the most beloved earbud on Head-Fi, and the refurbs are in the budget category (under $10 from Ebay):
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/13380#post_12981347


----------



## kfarndog

luckyeights said:


> So I have had my Rose Masyas for a while now and they keep sounding better and better every time i listen to them.  Its almost like they are not even earbuds anymore but something of their own class. The only earbuds i really have left that i want to try are the shozy stardusts but i dont know if they will be this good though how could they be?
> 
> 
> Now the Masya is an amazing earbud but i want to make it clear i have EQed mine because stock they lack bass and highs tend to be a little overwhelming stock.  But these EQ very well and once EQed to your liking they will not disappoint.  There is just something about them that just makes you want to sit and listen to them for extended periods.


 
 You are most certainly right about the highs being a little overwhelming at times in the Masya.  Some good foams, a powerful warm sounding source or equalization all make them a wonderful set of earbuds, especially with vocals or acoustic instrumentals.  For me they are a highly recommended earbud, but the peculiar fit makes it not for everyone.


----------



## kfarndog

danneq said:


> I did not write all of that now. The last week or two I have been working on this with a break for a while until I could get the time to compare the earbuds on classical music.


 
 I really appreciate the write up regarding classical.  It will expose a set of headphones or earbuds as a fraud in very short order.  Seems that a set of Cypherus buds or De'mun are on the horizon for me.


----------



## fairx

Seems more people preferring qian 39 to she3800. Mine is still on its way and suddenly my she3800 develop problem on left driver. However the replacement already on its way. Will compare both later. 

She3800 merajuk. Lol.


----------



## golov17

kfarndog said:


> You are most certainly right about the highs being a little overwhelming at times in the Masya.  Some good foams, a powerful warm sounding source or equalization all make them a wonderful set of earbuds, especially with vocals or acoustic instrumentals.  For me they are a highly recommended earbud, but the peculiar fit makes it not for everyone.


+100, and for Mojito too


----------



## golov17

ira delphic said:


> I wrote about the MX 680 below. Evidently not the most beloved earbud on Head-Fi, and the refurbs are in the budget category (under $10 from Ebay):
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/13380#post_12981347


well, I like very much mx580, 880, prefer up mx980


----------



## Nachash

karl2009 said:


> The Adidas model is the MX675, good sound and good fixing to the ear.
> I have also the MX475 and sound is quite good. I agree, those sennheissers are quite cheap and good and they are not particularly mentioned. I have found both in the Sennheisser outlet store.


 
  
 I can't seem to find a good earbud to use at the gym, I've tried with iems (one of those cheap KZ ones) but I can't stand them anymore. Is the MX675 discontinued?


fairx said:


> Seems more people preferring qian 39 to she3800. Mine is still on its way and suddenly my she3800 develop problem on left driver. However the replacement already on its way. Will compare both later.
> 
> She3800 merajuk. Lol.


 
 The Qian 39 does have a more controlled bass compared to the She3800, on the other side the comfort on the She3800 is much better.


----------



## vapman

Glad you finally got to hear the red demun danneq!!!


----------



## vapman

nachash said:


> I can't seem to find a good earbud to use at the gym, I've tried with iems (one of those cheap KZ ones) but I can't stand them anymore. Is the MX675 discontinued?
> The Qian 39 does have a more controlled bass compared to the She3800, on the other side the comfort on the She3800 is much better.


 
 Would recommend the Adidas sennheisers...


----------



## Fabi

For those who may be interested
  
 Does HP32s bloody worth it?
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds/165#post_13094162


----------



## vapman

fabi said:


> For those who may be interested
> 
> Does HP32s bloody worth it?
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds/165#post_13094162


 
 When you say "the bass impact is back" was there less bass on the V2 TY 32? Thats the only one I have.


----------



## Fabi

vapman said:


> When you say "the bass impact is back" was there less bass on the V2 TY 32? Thats the only one I have.


I meant the impact is back like on v2.


----------



## Majin

pack21 said:


> Very very good.
> 
> Much better than PT15 and i envy that my MX985 doesn't have such good comfort and fit, they lose so much points for that.


 
  
 mine was DOA and the sound of the left side was quite terrible. Ah well fasttech is giving me a full refund.


----------



## Majin

.


----------



## tinkertailor

**deleted to prevent misinformation***


----------



## golov17

Try it with MP foams


----------



## tinkertailor

I sold em ages ago brother.


----------



## Father Time

I just received a set of Edifier H180 earbuds I purchased from Amazon, and I have t say they sound great! I'm not using an amp, just plugging into my macbook pro. Looking forward to getting the Monk+, and Qian 39 I ordered. Now I'm looking at USB DAC/AMPS just for fun. A never ending quest/hobby for sure!


----------



## golov17

father time said:


> I just received a set of Edifier H180 earbuds I purchased from Amazon, and I have t say they sound great! I'm not using an amp, just plugging into my macbook pro. Looking forward to getting the Monk+, and Qian 39 I ordered. Now I'm looking at USB DAC/AMPS just for fun. A never ending quest/hobby for sure!
> [FLOAT=LEFT]
> 
> [/FLOAT]


try SHE3800


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> try SHE3800


 
 +10


----------



## Father Time

Thanks for the tip golov17. Looks like the Philips SHE3800 has a very similar body as the Edifier. Almost identical.


----------



## vapman

father time said:


> Thanks for the tip golov17. Looks like the Philips SHE3800 has a very similar body as the Edifier. Almost identical.


 
 It IS identical! Well, only the shell. The drivers are different


----------



## Father Time

I never knew there was so much going on with earbuds until I started reading Head-Fi, and joining. Amazing!


----------



## golov17

father time said:


> I never knew there was so much going on with earbuds until I started reading Head-Fi, and joining. Amazing!


Welcome on a board


----------



## Father Time

Thanks golov17!


----------



## music4mhell

father time said:


> I never knew there was so much going on with earbuds until I started reading Head-Fi, and joining. Amazing!


Same here..

i am so glad, I found headfi..a big thanks to @Clieos for creating this thread..

thank you so much for your effort...


----------



## Ruben123

Anyone tried the ty hiz 32 ohm? Love them, love them way more than the original monks
Looking at AliExpress though, and I see many more such diy earphones, all looking the same, all 5 stars reviews. What about them?


----------



## To.M

Sure thing, Ty Hi-Z 32 are one of the budget stars here, I have and like them, now there is their upgraded version, 32S with the red cable, at Penon Audio.


----------



## flamesofarctica

A few earbuds on the way. Decided to hold off on the Zen 2 for now until I've tried out my Walnut when it comes, so currently waiting for:

TY HP32s just to see if it differs from the original 32.
TY HP320
TY HP650

plus an additional Boarseman MX98s as it's a particular favorite so I wanted a spare.

As an aside, the **** PT15 playing Dio - Holy Diver just sounds awesome. It really seems to respond to some bass-heavy metal, or maybe it just likes Ronnie's voice, for its faults it's a great earbud for the right tune!


----------



## Nachash

vapman said:


> Would recommend the Adidas sennheisers...


 

 Unfortunately I can't seem to find it, they're available on ebay but the shipping is two times the price of the earbuds


----------



## Majin

Massive props to fasttech for refunding my money for the SHE3800. I still want a decent earbud so which one should i buy? I like the Monk+ but i want more clarity.
  
 Qian39
 Sony E808+
 SHE3800 (again)
  
 The left side of my SHE3800 was working but the sound was really off not sure if they sound like that...


----------



## Nachash

majin said:


> Massive props to fasttech for refunding my money for the SHE3800. I still want a decent earbud so which one should i buy? I like the Monk+ but i want more clarity.
> 
> Qian39
> Sony E808+
> ...


 
 All three


----------



## zabunny94

majin said:


> Massive props to fasttech for refunding my money for the SHE3800. I still want a decent earbud so which one should i buy? I like the Monk+ but i want more clarity.
> 
> Qian39
> Sony E808+
> ...




Sounds like what you want is edifier H185


----------



## Ira Delphic

tinkertailor said:


> Some recent earbuds ranked (best-worst as i see it) and reviewed:
> 
> 
> 1)Boarseman mx98  - full awesome sound, lots of bass and mids, very forward sounding which is not a plus, still these are the fullest sound of the lot
> ...




We don't share the same taste in earbuds but do have similar taste in music!

Edit: agreed on the k64. At least with the silver cable version, just ok but doesn't shine in any way. I only use it when a really long cable is needed.


----------



## purplesun

majin said:


> Massive props to fasttech for refunding my money for the SHE3800. I still want a decent earbud so which one should i buy? I like the Monk+ but i want more clarity.
> 
> Qian39
> Sony E808+
> ...


 
  
 K's 64ohm (white), IMO, Monk+'s sound signature with a bit more clarity and more forward midrange.


----------



## Willber

majin said:


> Massive props to fasttech for refunding my money for the SHE3800. I still want a decent earbud so which one should i buy? I like the Monk+ but i want more clarity.
> 
> Qian39
> Sony E808+
> ...


 

 I don't know if you've seen this thread:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds


----------



## purplesun

TY Hi-z. HP-400se
 https://world.taobao.com/item/543117770078.htm


----------



## tinkertailor

ira delphic said:


> We don't share the same taste in earbuds but do have similar taste in music!


 
 What earbuds do you like? What kind of source do you use?


----------



## luedriver

purplesun said:


> TY Hi-z. HP-400se
> https://world.taobao.com/item/543117770078.htm


 
 hp400, hp400s and now hp-400se, reminds me of iphones 
  
  
 also found this page (by following the link above) shows how they make the coil for the hp-650


----------



## Majin

purplesun said:


> K's 64ohm (white), IMO, Monk+'s sound signature with a bit more clarity and more forward midrange.


 
  
 Does any other store sell them besides HCK? Don't hear a lot of positive things from them.


----------



## purplesun

Bought mine on taobao during 11.11 promotion. Not a fan of Monk+ sound myself, but K's 64 did remind me of a slightly cleaner sounding Monk+. IMO, other than Monk Candy (which is not sold anymore) this is the other earbud that sounds like Monk+ with some clarity.


----------



## Saoshyant

Has anyone ordered the Yinman 600? If not, I'd most likely be easily convinced.


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> Has anyone ordered the Yinman 600? If not, I'd most likely be easily convinced.


 no orders


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Just arrived today:
  
*TY Hi-Z Collection:  *(The one without a label is the 400s and the one in the box is the 650)

 All I seem to be missing is the new 400se.


  
 --


----------



## Fabi

bloodypenguin said:


> Just arrived today:
> 
> *TY Hi-Z Collection:  *(The one without a label is the 400s and the one in the box is the 650)
> 
> ...


 
 Congrats mate. Nice!
 We're looking forward to your impressions for each pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 maybe for next year


----------



## tinkertailor

majin said:


> Does any other store sell them besides HCK? Don't hear a lot of positive things from them.


 
 Hey im selling mine or trading, see the buy and sell forum.


----------



## springbay

bloodypenguin said:


> Just arrived today:
> 
> *TY Hi-Z Collection:  *(The one without a label is the 400s and the one in the box is the 650)
> 
> ...


 
  
 You seem to be missing the elusive TY Hi-Z HP320*M *(that looks like a Seahf Smart 1.0).
 I ordered it during 11.11 from the store we cannot talk about. It's since then unlisted at the store and one of the buyers wrote in the feedback that he/she did not receive the advertised product, but probably a regular 320.
 My parcel is still at Swedish customs, so hopefully it will arrive before X-mas.


----------



## Nachash

I just tried the PT15 for the first time and I'm loving it
  
 I have the HPM-64 in the wishlist, I can't remember why. Were they worth it?


----------



## vapman

nachash said:


> I just tried the PT15 for the first time and I'm loving it
> 
> I have the HPM-64 in the wishlist, I can't remember why. Were they worth it?




Hpm64 are great shells for (other non hpm64) drivers but that is about it. On the other hand the pt15 is exceptional if the treble is not too much for you to handle.


----------



## sierras

I haven't read through this thread since way back (page 877), where I decided to try some cheapies i.e Monk+, Hi-Z 32 & Qian39. For me they did not live up to the praise heaped on them with the Monk+ being the best of them.
  
 By pure chance I purchased a set of Philips SHE3205 for around a £tenner. These are head and shoulders better than the above with pretty decent FR across the board, they also stay in my ears!
 They are very acceptable indeed and are now the benchmark for all-bud-comers to beat.


----------



## vapman

sierras said:


> I haven't read through this thread since way back (page 877), where I decided to try some cheapies i.e Monk+, Hi-Z 32 & Qian39. For me they did not live up to the praise heaped on them with the Monk+ being the best of them.
> 
> By pure chance I purchased a set of Philips SHE3205 for around a £tenner. These are head and shoulders better than the above with pretty decent FR across the board, they also stay in my ears!
> They are very acceptable indeed and are now the benchmark for all-bud-comers to beat.


 
 If you didn't like the Monk, Hi-Z or Qian39 then you probably won't be satisfied with any lower end buds. Maybe you need to go straight for the big boys?


----------



## Joy Boy

sierras said:


> I haven't read through this thread since way back (page 877), where I decided to try some cheapies i.e Monk+, Hi-Z 32 & Qian39. For me they did not live up to the praise heaped on them with the Monk+ being the best of them.
> 
> By pure chance I purchased a set of Philips SHE3205 for around a £tenner. These are head and shoulders better than the above with pretty decent FR across the board, they also stay in my ears!
> They are very acceptable indeed and are now the benchmark for all-bud-comers to beat.




Agree with vapman, you should jump to mid line or top line earbud. AFAIK, lower end bud will not satisfied your ear perfectly. Just use it as daily earbud or on trip.

I suggest you tried the mid line first like cygnus,tomahawk, ve ashura, or seahf series. 
Or straight to the top line like mojito or ve zen

*damn, i miss the discussion in this thread


----------



## BloodyPenguin

springbay said:


> You seem to be missing the elusive TY Hi-Z HP320*M *(that looks like a Seahf Smart 1.0).
> I ordered it during 11.11 from the store we cannot talk about. It's since then unlisted at the store and one of the buyers wrote in the feedback that he/she did not receive the advertised product, but probably a regular 320.
> My parcel is still at Swedish customs, so hopefully it will arrive before X-mas.


 
  
 Ohh!  Really cool.  So many cool versions out there!  Awesome you are getting one of the rare ones.
  
 --


----------



## AudioNewbi3

springbay said:


> You seem to be missing the elusive TY Hi-Z HP320*M *(that looks like a Seahf Smart 1.0).
> I ordered it during 11.11 from the store we cannot talk about. It's since then unlisted at the store and one of the buyers wrote in the feedback that he/she did not receive the advertised product, but probably a regular 320.
> My parcel is still at Swedish customs, so hopefully it will arrive before X-mas.


 
 The TY Hi-Z HP320*M *is discontinued, as BugBro no longer manufacturers the driver. Those who have the 320Ohm V1 treasure it. I am lucky I have it.
 That is why, on ty hiz's taobao store the erarbud is listed for 999.00


----------



## luedriver

I wonder if they still sell the 320M here 
  

  
 it looks like they took the cable from the seahf 32ohm and put it on the hp-320


----------



## AudioNewbi3

luedriver said:


> I wonder if they still sell the 320M here
> 
> 
> 
> it looks like they took the cable from the seahf 32ohm and put it on the hp-320


 
 Those are 15o Ohm


----------



## luedriver

audionewbi3 said:


> Those are 15o Ohm


 
 I was referring to these (as in the cable is similar to these)
  
 I'm confused, what are you referring to? the cable or the earbuds?
  
 if you referring to the link, you can choose hp350M as an option, it's the fourth one in the row


----------



## AudioNewbi3

luedriver said:


> I was referring to these (as in the cable is similar to these)
> 
> I'm confused, what are you referring to? the cable or the earbuds?
> 
> if you referring to the link, you can choose hp350M as an option, it's the fourth one in the row


 
 My bad mate. didnt see it. Yup get the HP320M when you still can.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I just finished up my first earbud review in quite some time.  Though I have a LOT more on the way. 
  
 Link:  The HE 150ohm is a First Step Into Higher Impedance Earbuds
  

  
  

  
 --


----------



## luedriver

audionewbi3 said:


> My bad mate. didnt see it. Yup get the HP320M when you still can.


 
 low of funds at the moment, (I bought some blox be3 and monk originals for about as much)
  
 also idk how they would compare to my hp32 and hp650 to justify buying them.
 as if the hp32s were justifiable, but that was an impulse buy and only $15 AUD
  
 also strange that the page has details on all earbuds except for hp350m
  
 edit* did some backtracking and saw that the hp-320m was being compared with zen 1.0, no.4 in champions list, but since clieos doesn't have one, it's hard to verify the claim
  
 its very tempting, even though they would be harder to drive than my hp650


----------



## fairx

luedriver said:


> I was referring to these (as in the cable is similar to these)
> 
> I'm confused, what are you referring to? the cable or the earbuds?
> 
> if you referring to the link, you can choose hp350M as an option, it's the fourth one in the row



I bought from that store. But instead of Hp320M they send me the other 320 version. They said there's a mix up But they also mention that just the cable is different and braided cable version are more expensive. That might just their excuse because it's no longer available perhaps? I don't know.. 

Hp320M on "other" seller are actually requested by me but they listed it up too late I already went to other seller. But oh well, I really like my Hp320


----------



## AudioNewbi3

luedriver said:


> low of funds at the moment, (I bought some blox be3 and monk originals for about as much)
> 
> also idk how they would compare to my hp32 and hp650 to justify buying them.
> as if the hp32s were justifiable, but that was an impulse buy and only $15 AUD
> ...


 
 I would not say they are hard to drive, just hard to drive well, but on average, I can use it out of my Xduoo X3 no problem. But they do shine with an amp, portable or desktop.


fairx said:


> I bought from that store. But instead of Hp320M they send me the other 320 version. They said there's a mix up But they also mention that just the cable is different and braided cable version are more expensive. That might just their excuse because it's no longer available perhaps? I don't know..
> 
> Hp320M on "other" seller are actually requested by me but they listed it up too late I already went to other seller. But oh well, I really like my Hp320


 
 The one you got probably is the 320Ohm V2


----------



## ozkan

majin said:


> Does anybody like the Philips SHE3800? I received one but the right side is defective. So I am listening with only the left side and the bass has a weird rumble and the sound is quite thin.




I like SHE3800 more than my Monks and they became my main on the go earbuds these days. So addictive and natural sounding earbuds for me. 

Also I'm eyeing on Edifier H180 and H185 but not sure if they would be an upgrade over SHE3800 and which one to get for a cleaner sound. Any advice? @golov17


----------



## golov17

ozkan said:


> I like SHE3800 more than my Monks and they became my main on the go earbuds these days. So addictive and natural sounding earbuds for me.
> 
> Also I'm eyeing on Edifier H180 and H185 but not sure if they would be an upgrade over SHE3800 and which one to get for a cleaner sound. Any advice? @golov17


i'm don't like h180, try h101,h185, l'm like it


----------



## Majin

ozkan said:


> I like SHE3800 more than my Monks and they became my main on the go earbuds these days. So addictive and natural sounding earbuds for me.
> 
> Also I'm eyeing on Edifier H180 and H185 but not sure if they would be an upgrade over SHE3800 and which one to get for a cleaner sound. Any advice? @golov17


 
  
 I'm itching to buy them again but my earphone collection is getting way too big.


----------



## pack21

It is difficult for me to hear the same iem/buds for a whole day, having the IE800 for pleasure hearing, but the SHE3800 are the first ones with this capacity, not that they are as good as the IE800 but because it has a very good sound, not fatiguing, and somehow similar, and for the low price they can always walk in any pocket or on a be on top of a table without having to worry, and they are super comfortable.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

My pairing for tonight: *Monk +, cMoyBB Amp *and *Onn X5* (Hiding).
  
 *Bass boost clicked on for a bit more fun.*


  
 --


----------



## purplesun

Have not seen these taobao earbuds (PureSounds) mentioned here.
 I think they make them in 64,150, 260, 500 & 600ohms.
 And, fair warning, their earbuds look really nice in the pictures! 
  
 https://shop163040449.world.taobao.com/


----------



## golov17

purplesun said:


> Have not seen these taobao earbuds (PureSounds) mentioned here.
> I think they make them in 64,150, 260, 500 & 600ohms.
> And, fair warning, their earbuds look really nice in the pictures!
> 
> https://shop163040449.world.taobao.com/


soon on AE


----------



## pack21

Already arrived, they are colder and sharper than the SHE3800 that i taste more


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

So after about a month my Balanced Shozy Stardust isnt working anymore :/ i think it has to do with the jack. I have contacted Penon Audio to see if I can return it.

And to my ears at least...Cygnus is the best earbud. Even better than Stardust.


----------



## kurtextrem

tayyab pirzada said:


> So after about a month my Balanced Shozy Stardust isnt working anymore :/ i think it has to do with the jack. I have contacted Penon Audio to see if I can return it.
> 
> And to my ears at least...Cygnus is the best earbud. Even better than Stardust.


 
  
 I think Cygnus is the best earbud compared to other earbuds. But Stardust should be compared to open back headphones. When switching between Cygnus and Stardust I can immediately feel how MUCH more immerse the sound is. It's a "space" (or room) compared to the regular earbuds sound feel.
 However, Cygnus might be the king of music or vocals. Vocals are nearer, so are details.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

kurtextrem said:


> I think Cygnus is the best earbud compared to other earbuds. But Stardust should be compared to open back headphones. When switching between Cygnus and Stardust I can immediately feel how MUCH more immerse the sound is. It's a "space" (or room) compared to the regular earbuds sound feel.
> However, Cygnus might be the king of music or vocals. Vocals are nearer, so are details.




Well hopefully Penon Audio gives me a replacement or repair or refund for Stardust


----------



## Majin

does anybody know the difference between qian25 and the qian39?
  
 sad times the E808+ has a price increase will be on the watch list for the price drop.


----------



## Ira Delphic

majin said:


> does anybody know the difference between qian25 and the qian39?
> 
> sad times the E808+ has a price increase will be on the watch list for the price drop.


 
  
 I have both. The '39 has more bass. I prefer the '25 for most music. More balanced to my ears.


----------



## Majin

ira delphic said:


> I have both. The '39 has more bass. I prefer the '25 for most music. More balanced to my ears.


 
  
 I wish you would say one is better than the other one  ah well lets see what others think about them.


----------



## Ira Delphic

majin said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > I have both. The '39 has more bass. I prefer the '25 for most music. More balanced to my ears.
> ...


 
  
 If you love bass, get the '39. @Vapman is the resident expert on Qian! I'd wait for his response


----------



## Willber

> sad times the E808+ has a price increase will be on the watch list for the price drop.


 
  
 So they have, almost double. I'm glad I ordered two when they were $3.60.


----------



## Willber

majin said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > I have both. The '39 has more bass. I prefer the '25 for most music. More balanced to my ears.
> ...


 
  
 '39 is smaller and more comfortable for some people...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

majin said:


> sad times the E808+ has a price increase will be on the watch list for the price drop.


 
  
  


willber said:


> So they have, almost double. I'm glad I ordered two when they were $3.60.


 
  
 We are driving up the price of the E808+.  Buy low, sell high!
  
  
 Gosh, wish I had bought a few pairs now, instead of just the one, I could have been a Millionaire!  
  
  
 --


----------



## Majin

bloodypenguin said:


> We are driving up the price of the E808+.  Buy low, sell high!
> 
> 
> Gosh, wish I had bought a few pairs now, instead of just the one, I could have been a Millionaire!
> ...


 
  
 That monopoly on the E808+. I was on the verge to buy it since i sold my **** 4in1.


----------



## base08

Arrived my pair of Phillips SHE3800 and out of the box they are very bassy with some recessed mids, a bit veiled highs and grainy from time to time on some sounds... Not saying they are bad but for now not impressed... hopefully they will improve with time and burn in.


----------



## Majin

base08 said:


> Arrived my pair of Phillips SHE3800 and out of the box they are very bassy with some recessed mids, a bit veiled highs and grainy from time to time on some sounds... Not saying they are bad but for now not impressed... hopefully they will improve with time and burn in.


 
  
 I also had the same thoughts with only the left side working. Guess my next buy will be the qian39.


----------



## sierras

joy boy said:


> Agree with @vapman, you should jump to mid line or top line earbud. AFAIK, lower end bud will not satisfied your ear perfectly. Just use it as daily earbud or on trip.
> 
> I suggest you tried the mid line first like cygnus,tomahawk, ve ashura, or seahf series.
> Or straight to the top line like mojito or ve zen
> ...


 

 That's as may be but I did say I liked the Philips at only £10. It has no glaring lumps or holes in its FR as the others quoted do. Check them out


----------



## Ira Delphic

tinkertailor said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > We don't share the same taste in earbuds but do have similar taste in music!
> ...


 
  
 Source - LG V10. I really like the **** PT15.


----------



## purplesun

majin said:


> That monopoly on the E808+. I was on the verge to buy it.



If you can buy on taobao, they are really cheap from a few sellers.

IMO, they were only worth a punt at cheaper prices, as they like thinner-sounding TY Hi-z 32 v1 which itself cost $6 anyway.


----------



## To.M

Ira DelphicThe same here, with Benjie S5 they sound very good, great clarity, soundstage and detail, bass is in sufficient quantities,too (testing with Massive Attack - Angel now, of course not subwoofer-like but well present in the background)


----------



## Nachash

The 'Sony' didn't went up in price. The seller combined the listing with two IEMs
  


to.m said:


> @Ira DelphicThe same here, with Benjie S5 they sound very good, great clarity, soundstage and detail, bass is in sufficient quantities,too (testing with Massive Attack - Angel now, of course not subwoofer-like but well present in the background)


 

 They're great with those foams, they're like a midway between the thick and the thin Monk ones.


----------



## flamesofarctica

nachash said:


> The 'Sony' didn't went up in price. The seller combined the listing with two IEMs



It did for a short while, it almost doubled..Has gone back down again now by the looks of things


----------



## pack21

base08 said:


> Arrived my pair of Phillips SHE3800 and out of the box they are very bassy with some recessed mids, a bit veiled highs and grainy from time to time on some sounds... Not saying they are bad but for now not impressed... hopefully they will improve with time and burn in.




It's very strange, or you have a faulty pair, the SHE3800 has a more close-up iem high-end sound (nota being) than the **** PT15 that you find amazing. The high-end signatures doesn't usually hurt the ears the way PT15 hurt.


----------



## golov17

pack21 said:


> It's very strange, or you have a faulty pair, the SHE3800 has a more close-up iem high-end sound (nota being) than the **** PT15 that you find amazing. The high-end signatures doesn't usually hurt the ears the way PT15 hurt.


personal preferences..


----------



## Luan Dee

tayyab pirzada said:


> So after about a month my Balanced Shozy Stardust isnt working anymore :/ i think it has to do with the jack. I have contacted Penon Audio to see if I can return it.
> 
> And to my ears at least...Cygnus is the best earbud. Even better than Stardust.


 
 Oh no...
  
 I think this confirms my lingering doubt with Stardust comparison based on reviews and also Shozy's answer. I recently asked their FB page if the vocals is the same as Cygnus and they replied with "It is all improved" which I thought might mean..it is different. I LOVE the vocals and mids in my Cygnus and was expecting the same (or better, but not so much different) vocals reproduction in their Stardust with better quality in all other aspects.
  
 I got my Cygnus 2nd hand and had the chance to listen to it side by side with the seller's Campfred and while the later is better in most aspects that time, I still preferred the Cygnus' vocals. I completely lost interest in getting a Campfred (even after the owner posted it for sale at a lower price of course) after 3 months of using the Cygnus daily as it has improved in almost everything especially the bass and soundstage. Maybe the Qfred would trump it in the vocals aspect, maybe not. Anyone who has the Cygnus lying around and enjoying other buds, you might want to burn it in more to reach its full potential. I really enjoy it with Acoustic, POP, EDM, Alternative. Can't stand it though with music produced by bands like Three Days Grace, Breaking Benjamin, those kinds. For Jazz and Classical music, I feel like other buds with different sound signature (wider soundstage and better resolution) is more suited though I can still enjoy listening to these with the Cygnus. 
  
 Now my problem is I stupidly dropped one of the buds in my coffee mug :/ I've been contemplating on just finding another set of buds with same vocals/mids characteristics. Anyone here knows if there's one that exists? If not, I might end up buying another Cygnus or replacing the broken bud which will cost 50USD from Shozy. In the meantime, I'm "trying" to enjoy my cheaper buds (Monks+, Remax 303, Senn MX375) swapping (and even cutting) foams and EQing to get the closest enjoyable sound I had with the Cygnus. Thank you everyone for making this thread super active, I visit here almost everyday and enjoy reading all your journeys.


----------



## ozkan

base08 said:


> Arrived my pair of Phillips SHE3800 and out of the box they are very bassy with some recessed mids, a bit veiled highs and grainy from time to time on some sounds... Not saying they are bad but for now not impressed... hopefully they will improve with time and burn in.




They can sound bassy and a bit veiled out if the box. You'd better give them some time because they really open up with some burn in. And pair them with Monk plus thin foams if you have as they are best with for me.


----------



## luedriver

Chrismas came early for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  

 original ve monk (white letters) (top) and blox be3 (bottom)
 thanks to @smith for selling me them and sending them so fast
  
  

 the card had arrived yesterday, on its own and was hand written


----------



## vapman

That was pretty fast! I might order some 32S depending on impressions.


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> That was pretty fast! I might order some 32S depending on impressions.


 

 My 32R still burning-in. But at 12 hour mark, it sounded a lot nicer than 32v1 or 32v2 at their 12th hour, which were terrible then.
  
 Higher treble extension than 32v1 and more refined highs than 32v2 (32v1/v2 auditioned 2 days ago).
 Highs & mids sounding similar to E808+ but slightly thicker than E808+.
 Not much bass to speak of yet. Currently about same bass volume as Monk+ or SHE3800.
  
 Will let it burn for a few more days.


----------



## luedriver

vapman said:


> That was pretty fast! I might order some 32S depending on impressions.


 
  
 I know, I just ordered them on the 6th, it said that it was shipped on the 9th, maybe it was fast because of Christmas, didn't expect them to come before new years


----------



## golov17

Your be3 mk1 or mk2, btw?


----------



## luedriver

golov17 said:


> Your be3 mk1 or mk2, btw?


 
 I think it's mk1, something about before December edition, if I remember reading it correctly


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> My 32R still burning-in. But at 12 hour mark, it sounded a lot nicer than 32v1 or 32v2 at their 12th hour, which were terrible then.
> 
> Higher treble extension than 32v1 and more refined highs than 32v2 (32v1/v2 auditioned 2 days ago).
> Highs & mids sounding similar to E808+ but slightly thicker than E808+.
> ...


 
 Do you have the PT15? Curious about how they compare on treble.


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> Do you have the PT15? Curious about how they compare on treble.


 

 Never received it. Seeking refund from the unnameable seller.


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> Never received it. Seeking refund from the unnameable seller.


 
 Too bad! I  destroyed mine very quickly but they had extremely crisp treble. Way too much of it for me though.


----------



## Sempenyi

any review about the new ty 32r (red cable version) ?


----------



## tinkertailor

vapman said:


> Too bad! I  destroyed mine very quickly but they had extremely crisp treble. Way too much of it for me though.


 
 How'd you destroy them? I bought an extra pair to recup but they are glued pretty tight.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

sempenyi said:


> any review about the new ty 32s (red cable version) ?


 
  
 I'm burning mine in!  (I also have the normal TY 32 as well).  I'm doing my best to get a review/comparison up by the end of this week. 

 --


----------



## Danneq

luan dee said:


> Oh no...
> 
> I think this confirms my lingering doubt with Stardust comparison based on reviews and also Shozy's answer. I recently asked their FB page if the vocals is the same as Cygnus and they replied with "It is all improved" which I thought might mean..it is different. I LOVE the vocals and mids in my Cygnus and was expecting the same (or better, but not so much different) vocals reproduction in their Stardust with better quality in all other aspects.
> 
> ...


 


 Have you heard earbuds such as AuGlamour RX1 and VE Asura 2?

 I can only think of 4 midcentric earbuds that are worth buying: Shozy Cygnus, VE Asura, Cypherus QFred and AuGlamour RX-1. I've owned all but sold or traded all but QFred.
 Soon after I got QFred I put Cygnus up for sale and ended up trading it away. I found QFred to be so much better and much more refined. But it is 2,5 times the price of Cygnus. 
 Asura 2 is around the same price as Cygnus and AuGlamour RX-1 is around $20-25. You could try RX-1 and then Asura 2. Personally I find QFred to be a big step up from the other three but is the high price justified? Midcentric earbuds have more limited use than more allround earbuds...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Took WAY too long to finish, but it is done.  My review of the K's Earphone 500ohm Earbud:
    

  http://www.head-fi.org/products/ks-earphone-500ohm-earbud/reviews/17622
  

  
 --


----------



## Father Time

I just received the TY HI-Z HP 32S earbuds from Penon Audio. I now have the Monk+, and Edifier H180. I've tried all three with my macbook pro using the headphone out. So far, the Edifier180 sound the best to me. The TY HI-Z HP 32S sound horrible. Way to much high end. I had to use a graphic EQ app to dial down everything from 1K on up to make them sound good. Very disappointing. The Monk+ are OK. I have the Qian 39 coming and I'm hoping they sound as good as everyone says they do. Maybe I should be using a USB Dac/Amp, I don't know if that wold change things or not. Should I send the TY HI-Z back and try something else? Any suggestions?


----------



## JASru

https://twitter.com/adagamov/status/811125258468130816

 Russian Post at its finest. Sorry for off-top, but I couldn't resist sharing this.


----------



## vapman

Thread just broke a million views 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 lots of earbud lovers...
  
 I'm using Cygnus, cable is almost as green as money


----------



## Townyj

bloodypenguin said:


> Took WAY too long to finish, but it is done.  My review of the K's Earphone 500ohm Earbud:
> 
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/ks-earphone-500ohm-earbud/reviews/17622


 
  
 Great review Justin!  Reading that might just sway me into buying a pair someday.


----------



## Mommerman

My K's 500ohm earbuds version 2, have come in the mail, and I have burned them in for 40-50hrs. I can't stand to listen to these earbuds for more than 10 minutes before getting neck strains. It's like som of the higher frequencies are piercing my ears. around 2-8khz is killing me, but mostly the 2khz area is like a clamping force on my head, very discomforting.
  
 Am I the only on getting this?
  
 Unfortunately I haven't made my 15th post on the forum yet, so I can't trade with someone who might want to try these over their own Hi-Z Earbud HP650. I hear they are more for smoother prolonged listening. is this true?
  
 Another case might be that since these(K's 500) are so insanely detailed, my hearing is being overwhelmed by all that information. They have no treble spikes per se, but something is just tooo much for my hearing.


----------



## Joy Boy

luedriver said:


> low of funds at the moment, (I bought some blox be3 and monk originals for about as much)
> 
> also idk how they would compare to my hp32 and hp650 to justify buying them.
> as if the hp32s were justifiable, but that was an impulse buy and only $15 AUD
> ...



Seahf 320ohm and ve zen have same type of sound sign but it's not that identical. Still ve zen has 2-3 level better in term of sound quality




sierras said:


> That's as may be but I did say I liked the Philips at only £10. It has no glaring lumps or holes in its FR as the others quoted do. Check them out



Already have it before. And yes, it's quite good for its price. And it has good potential too if modded



bloodypenguin said:


> Took WAY too long to finish, but it is done.  My review of the K's Earphone 500ohm Earbud:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, great review. But it makes me more curious about this earbud. I wish i could try it before i spent my money on it


----------



## rockingthearies

mommerman said:


> My K's 500ohm earbuds version 2, have come in the mail, and I have burned them in for 40-50hrs. I can't stand to listen to these earbuds for more than 10 minutes before getting neck strains. It's like som of the higher frequencies are piercing my ears. around 2-8khz is killing me, but mostly the 2khz area is like a clamping force on my head, very discomforting.
> 
> Am I the only on getting this?
> 
> ...




Nope you are not alone. Exactly how I felt about the K500. They are fatiguing in my opinion. But they resolves so much details which is what I am looking for but unfortunately its too bright for my liking. Vocals do sound good on those though


----------



## Mommerman

exactly. they are also quite good for older mixes, like jazz from te 60's since the nature of older recordings seems a bit darker.


----------



## Joy Boy

Anyone already tried or order this new Blox high impedance earbud? I hear they launch 160ohm and 320ohm earbud (B160 & B320)


----------



## golov17

joy boy said:


> Anyone already tried or order this new Blox high impedance earbud? I hear they launch 160ohm and 320ohm earbud (B160 & B320)


 http://www.head-fi.org/t/620467/blox-earbuds-discussion-tm7-m2c-anv3-be3-be5-be7/1005#post_13095035


----------



## vapman

joy boy said:


> Anyone already tried or order this new Blox high impedance earbud? I hear they launch 160ohm and 320ohm earbud (B160 & B320)


 
 That isn't the new flagship though, is it? They look just like the Cypheruses


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> That isn't the new flagship though, is it? They look just like the Cypheruses



Nope. About the flagship,mr.woo still need some research before launch it officially. Maybe TM9?





golov17 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/620467/blox-earbuds-discussion-tm7-m2c-anv3-be3-be5-be7/1005#post_13095035



Wow, mine is still on delivery. Just order the 160ohm. From the first impression i knew, B320 sound like ve zen 1 so I didn't order it


----------



## Nachash

father time said:


> I just received the TY HI-Z HP 32S earbuds from Penon Audio. I now have the Monk+, and Edifier H180. I've tried all three with my macbook pro using the headphone out. So far, the Edifier180 sound the best to me. The TY HI-Z HP 32S sound horrible. Way to much high end. I had to use a graphic EQ app to dial down everything from 1K on up to make them sound good. Very disappointing. The Monk+ are OK. I have the Qian 39 coming and I'm hoping they sound as good as everyone says they do. Maybe I should be using a USB Dac/Amp, I don't know if that wold change things or not. Should I send the TY HI-Z back and try something else? Any suggestions?


 
  
 The original TY32 needed tons of burn in for me, I remember that the first impact was horrible. Thin-speaker like sound


----------



## Luan Dee

danneq said:


> Have you heard earbuds such as AuGlamour RX1 and VE Asura 2?


 
 Thanks for the suggestions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 RX1 is actually one of the buds I happen to try when buying the Cygnus..disappointed but I'd like to believe it was a faulty one, and maybe those that came from the same seller where he got it because we share the same observations for other units. It was almost all highs, I can hear the high end resolution but failed to bring out good mids and lows even after EQing (was using iBasso DX90 that time), nothing is happening. I'll give it another shot with other sellers here. I'm actually after the vocals from Cygnus, that bit of tubey or airy nasal thing to it that makes it sound more natural or organic. Anyone here who has a fully burned-in Cygnus and Asura 2 to compare?
  
 One more bud that made me smile during that day was the TY HiZ 32ohm. Way better than the Monks+ he gave away for free, though admittedly, the Monks+ wasn't fully burned in that time. Maybe it's better to salvage my Cygnus' cable/plug and swap with HiZ 32 or even PK1. One lesson I've realized, if the sound is a lot different than what most people claim here when you get it, try to burn in. If it ain't improving, must be that you got a faulty one or have way different taste or sound perception than most.


----------



## Ira Delphic

purplesun said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > Do you have the PT15? Curious about how they compare on treble.
> ...


 
  
 purplesun and I were PMing about the PT15 in prior months...sorry that it never arrived from the seller that we will not name. At least you can get a PT15 for less than what you paid. Are you going to get a PT15 from a different seller? I like mine as you know, even got a backup. The PT15 is a **** through and through - extreme opinions for and against!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

rockingthearies said:


> Nope you are not alone. Exactly how I felt about the K500. They are fatiguing in my opinion. But they resolves so much details which is what I am looking for but unfortunately its too bright for my liking. Vocals do sound good on those though


 
  
 I do mention in my review that they are not the best for extending listening.  I also prefer using them with a slightly warmer source.


----------



## purplesun

ira delphic said:


> purplesun and I were PMing about the PT15 in prior months...sorry that it never arrived from the seller that we will not name. At least you can get a PT15 for less than what you paid. Are you going to get a PT15 from a different seller? I like mine as you know, even got a backup. The PT15 is a **** through and through - extreme opinions for and against!



Probably not. Was mostly slowing down on trying new earbuds back when I ordered PT15 anyway. Am not a collector like some/most members here. Been quite contented with my humble EDC set of Sony E808+, YMHPF64 & KZ-ATE(iem). In fact, most of the stuff I bought in recent testing mostly sits inside a big plastic container. **** & KZ iems, Monks, SHE3800, RX1, EO320 to name a few. Am going to be earphone Santa to my nephews and nieces. No gift wrapping and slightly used.


----------



## fleasbaby

purplesun said:


> Probably not. Was mostly slowing down on trying new earbuds back when I ordered PT15 anyway. Am not a collector like some/most members here. Been quite contented with my humble EDC set of Sony E808+, YMHPF64 & KZ-ATE(iem). In fact, most of the stuff I bought in recent testing mostly sits inside a big plastic container. **** & KZ iems, Monks, SHE3800, RX1, EO320 to name a few. Am going to be earphone Santa to my nephews and nieces. No gift wrapping and slightly used.


 
  
 Just got me Sony E808+ yesterday evening and am taking them for a spin this morning at the office.
  
 Definitely hearing what @vapman did....they have bass for days, which can be fun with the right music . Definitely one worth keeping, simply for wha they are good at.


----------



## purplesun

fleasbaby said:


> Just got me Sony E808+ yesterday evening and am taking them for a spin this morning at the office.
> 
> Definitely hearing what @vapman
> did....they have bass for days, which can be fun with the right music . Definitely one worth keeping, simply for wha they are good at.




About the lowest bass in an earphone I have ever heard on a flat eq. But am not a bass connoisseur; clarity in mids and highs are more my thing. Which should kick-in in the E808+ after about a week's of use. Not everyone's cup of tea, for sure.


----------



## fleasbaby

purplesun said:


> About the lowest bass in an earphone I have ever heard on a flat eq. But am not a bass connoisseur; clarity in mids and highs are more my thing. Which should kick-in in the E808+ after about a week's of use. Not everyone's cup of tea, for sure.


 
  
 Once I heard the bass I started testing it. Most challenging track for that I have is Flying Lotus' "All In" from the album "Until the Quiet Comes". He is a barbarian when it comes to mastering, and brickwalls everything. 
  

  
 The E808+ handle the opening well, which is surprising. A lot of full-size cans I have heard battle to put it out coherently.


----------



## purplesun

@fleababy
I may be paranoid, but I think I may have destroyed one of my E808+ with overly aggressive burning-in. Just go easy on them for the first day or so. Fortunately, @vapman have proven that they can take lots of abuse after burning-in period.


----------



## boblauer

jasru said:


> https://twitter.com/adagamov/status/811125258468130816
> 
> Russian Post at its finest. Sorry for off-top, but I couldn't resist sharing this.


 
 That's freaking hilarious. There was a news item here in Southern California the other day a persons security cam caught a UPs driver or maybe FedEx just throwing someones packages over a fence. This tops that.


----------



## Danneq

Of course us Swedes want to join the game!

 The Russians in the video just seem incompetent, not mean spirited.

 Swedish DHL:


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Nevermind


----------



## Father Time

nachash said:


> The original TY32 needed tons of burn in for me, I remember that the first impact was horrible. Thin-speaker like sound


 

 Thanks for the tip Nachash. I'm going to be evaluating these with fresh ears today, and AB-ing them with the Monk+ and Edifier H180. I've read quite a few posts saying you have to "burn in" your buds, and quite a few saying it's nonsense. If it helped you with the TY32's then maybe I'll give it a shot. did you run music through them for a day or so? Or test tones, noise?


----------



## mochill

I'll be joining the 1more e1008 team, I know they'll be good.


----------



## Nachash

father time said:


> Thanks for the tip Nachash. I'm going to be evaluating these with fresh ears today, and AB-ing them with the Monk+ and Edifier H180. I've read quite a few posts saying you have to "burn in" your buds, and quite a few saying it's nonsense. If it helped you with the TY32's then maybe I'll give it a shot. did you run music through them for a day or so? Or test tones, noise?


 

 Music, but they really needed a lot of burn in... after two straight days they didn't changed that much.
 Also, remember to use the thin Monk foams


----------



## Father Time

nachash said:


> Music, but they really needed a lot of burn in... after two straight days they didn't changed that much.
> Also, remember to use the thin Monk foams


 

 Thanks, will try the thin foams, and play some music through them today/tonight.


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> Of course us Swedes want to join the game!
> 
> The Russians in the video just seem incompetent, not mean spirited.
> 
> Swedish DHL:




 Man.... I can tell you've never seen a USPS load/unloading


----------



## purplesun

father time said:


> Thanks for the tip Nachash. I'm going to be evaluating these with fresh ears today, and AB-ing them with the Monk+ and Edifier H180. I've read quite a few posts saying you have to "burn in" your buds, and quite a few saying it's nonsense. If it helped you with the TY32's then maybe I'll give it a shot. did you run music through them for a day or so? Or test tones, noise?


 

 If it's anything like TY32R which I am burning in now - the darker sound textures start to be heard after 30 hours; giving the vocals a bit more body. Highs & sibiliance gets a bit more refined. Certainly more compliant burn-ins than TY32v1 or TY32v2. Nevertheless, will burn mine up to 72 hours before proper listening.


----------



## Father Time

purplesun said:


> If it's anything like TY32R which I am burning in now - the darker sound textures start to be heard after 30 hours; giving the vocals a bit more body. Highs & sibiliance gets a bit more refined. Certainly more compliant burn-ins than TY32v1 or TY32v2. Nevertheless, will burn mine up to 72 hours before proper listening.


 

 I'll give it a go and see what happens. I'll use my PC laptop for that job and just let some music play, and check on them periodically.


----------



## tinkertailor

The **** PT15's are growing on me. They are very very bright, but also detailed. And once you kinda get used to their sig, and pump up the bass in eq, they sound pretty amazing.


----------



## Frederick Wang

danneq said:


> Of course us Swedes want to join the game!
> 
> The Russians in the video just seem incompetent, not mean spirited.
> 
> Swedish DHL:




 Is DHL the worst shipping service globally? 
 I just had a very bad customer service from them. Called the local office asking very nicely about a package that should have been delivered 1 week ago, the lady who took up my call was very impatient and unprofessional. It's my first experience with DHL, they are way worse than, say, China Post (which is a joke already compared to the generally great service of China's privately owned express delivery companies). 
  
 By the way, those people look like they hate their jobs.


----------



## luedriver

all this talk about postal throwing packages around, makes me think of when I mailed my cygnus back, the guy behind the counter just threw it into storage, in front of me, just after I paid for it, seemed weird, but I guess that this is why the packages have so much bubble wrap and protection, to be able to get knocked around a lot, still
  
  
 in other news, really liking the blox and old monks, they are almost like "brothers", with monk having a slight bass hump,
 tried hp32S after burn in for 5-10 hours, didn't seem to have much effect, but they didn't have any trouble spots,
 I put them back on the "burner" and will probably burn them in for a few days, just to be on the safe side,


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> Of course us Swedes want to join the game!
> 
> 
> The Russians in the video just seem incompetent, not mean spirited.
> ...


 Ohh my..  


Spoiler


----------



## vapman

Man neither of those videos are anything compared to the first 10 seconds of this video.... 
  


Spoiler: Why USA packages are always so crushed looking


----------



## golov17

Go to ev3


----------



## vapman

Is your amp the Little bear b4? how is it?


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Is your amp the Little bear b4? how is it?


 b3, good for me


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> b3, good for me


 
 any mods or normal?


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> any mods or normal?


new OPA Dual AD825


----------



## Danneq

I was looking for this video of a Swedish post employee who was throwing packages but could not find a Youtube version:

http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/har-kastar-brevbararen-in-paketen-i-postbilen


 It's nice to know that postal workers around the world has got one thing in common: throwing around and destroying packages...


 Enough with OT...


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> I was looking for this video of a Swedish post employee who was throwing packages but could not find a Youtube version:


 
  
 Here is another example:
  

  
 And this is not only forwarding companies problem. I know that in big shops very offten they treat packages with similar care.


----------



## Joy Boy

tinkertailor said:


> The **** PT15's are growing on me. They are very very bright, but also detailed. And once you kinda get used to their sig, and pump up the bass in eq, they sound pretty amazing.



May be you should try Vsonic UU2 and Pioneer Se-ce 521 too.
Uu2 is also bright, even sometimes too peaky but has great detail.
While pioneer more balance but it has an awesome detail and separation too


----------



## vapman

joy boy said:


> May be you should try Vsonic UU2 and Pioneer Se-ce 521 too.
> Uu2 is also bright, even sometimes too peaky but has great detail.
> While pioneer more balance but it has an awesome detail and separation too


 
 Is CE521 a UK only model or something? I can only find them from there.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Is CE521 a UK only model or something? I can only find them from there.


 https://goo.gl/H8BeJ1


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> Is CE521 a UK only model or something? I can only find them from there.



I got mine from aliexpress about 1 years ago. The price around $20-$25

Check here:
https://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SE-CE521-H-Enclosed-Inner-Ear-Headphones/dp/B004TQD72O

Or

http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/POCEN/Home/Headphones/Ear-Bud/SE-CE521-K


----------



## luckyeights

danneq said:


> Of course us Swedes want to join the game!
> 
> The Russians in the video just seem incompetent, not mean spirited.
> 
> Swedish DHL:




 Looks pretty normal to me.  Tossing the packages a couple feet wont typically hurt anything.   The machines in sorting facilities knock packages around with ALOT more force than those packages being tossed a few feet.  Friend of mine worked for UPS and showed me and those sorting machines are brutal.


----------



## Ira Delphic

joy boy said:


> tinkertailor said:
> 
> 
> > The **** PT15's are growing on me. They are very very bright, but also detailed. And once you kinda get used to their sig, and pump up the bass in eq, they sound pretty amazing.
> ...


 
  
 The consensus in this thread is that the VSONIC UU2 is a mediocre earbud. That was enough to dissuade me from trying it.
  
 On the rough mail handing... in the US it's not uncommon to find reports or mail buried in the woods or left in trunks of cars.


----------



## Joy Boy

ira delphic said:


> The consensus in this thread is that the VSONIC UU2 is a mediocre earbud. That was enough to dissuade me from trying it.
> 
> On the rough mail handing... in the US it's not uncommon to find reports or mail buried in the woods or left in trunks of cars.



Personal preference. It's not omnivora for all genres. In fact the treble can be so peaky and ear fatigue.
I recommend it because it's still very good with the performance that exceed the price.
ClieOs himself said no problem recommend it over similar priced Sennheiser or AKG.

But yeah, it's not for everyone. Still believe your own ears

*cheers


----------



## fairx

Hmm were newer ty 32 (s or r) bring anything new. Just now I'm comparing my ty 32 v1 and ty 320 and really impressed by 32 sense of space. Even better imaging than 320. Although 320 is way more so resolving but 32 is more effortless 3d in imaging. I think the bump in 6-8k increase presence. In comparison 320 sound more forward and less accurate in rendering position.

Edit. Forgot to mention I'm amping my ty32 high gain with O2


----------



## Decommo

Hello. I have been away from this thread so I am outdated what's going on earbuds lately.   Can anyone tell me the difference between VE Monk Plus translucent and Royal Purple version? Is it just cosmetic color difference or sound also slightly different?


----------



## vapman

decommo said:


> Hello. I have been away from this thread so I am outdated what's going on earbuds lately.   Can anyone tell me the difference between VE Monk Plus translucent and Royal Purple version? Is it just cosmetic color difference or sound also slightly different?


 
 Just color =)


----------



## Decommo

vapman said:


> decommo said:
> 
> 
> > Hello. I have been away from this thread so I am outdated what's going on earbuds lately.   Can anyone tell me the difference between VE Monk Plus translucent and Royal Purple version? Is it just cosmetic color difference or sound also slightly different?
> ...


 
 Thank you for clarification...


----------



## purplesun

TY Hi-Z 32R versus TY32v2 (L-plug) versus TY32v1 (straight-plug)
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds/195#post_13107782


----------



## silverfishla

I just got a pair of Rose Mojito's from all of your guy's suggestions and talk in this thread.  I absolutely love them!  I also bought a balanced cord (with a homemade adapter) to use with my Pono player in balanced mode.  Oh my god, that's good!  Clearest vocals I might have heard from either an earbud or iem.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Have anyone here heard the 1MORE Triple Driver In-Ear Headphone?


----------



## Townyj

midnightempest said:


> Have anyone here heard the 1MORE Triple Driver In-Ear Headphone?


 
  
 Wrong thread dude.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

townyj said:


> Wrong thread dude.





I have 0 experience with Earbuds and little IEMs. I was hoping someone with a lot of experience can share their thoughts / Pros & Cons on IEM vs Earbuds.

Since I only have about $120 to spend, I don't know what would be best. I'm looking for something with a fun sound. It's so happen that the 1More Triple Driver falls in my price range and I'm curious if anyone have try / listen to them and how they would compare to Earbuds within that price range.


----------



## rockingthearies

midnightempest said:


> I have 0 experience with Earbuds and little IEMs. I was hoping someone with a lot of experience can share their thoughts / Pros & Cons on IEM vs Earbuds.
> 
> Since I only have about $120 to spend, I don't know what would be best. I'm looking for something with a fun sound. It's so happen that the 1More Triple Driver falls in my price range and I'm curious if anyone have try / listen to them and how they would compare to Earbuds within that price range.



For iems you can go to the Chinese asian brand thread. Basically pros of an iem, good isolation, comfort(subjective to ear shape and size). Good bass quantity.

Pros of a earbud: Airy and spacious soundstage. All my earbuds seem to perform better on the mids. But this is probably due to the drivers. Comfort (based on ear shape and size too).Less prone to getting tinnitus or hearing loss too. 

Cons of an iem: the opposite of the strength of earbuds

Cons of a earbud: the opposite of the strength of iems


----------



## Ira Delphic

rockingthearies said:


> midnightempest said:
> 
> 
> > I have 0 experience with Earbuds and little IEMs. I was hoping someone with a lot of experience can share their thoughts / Pros & Cons on IEM vs Earbuds.
> ...


 
  
 Good points by rockingthearies!
 I'll add that for those that find IEM's comfortable, there is typically no reason to switch exclusively to earbuds. I pretty much switched to earbuds for comfort, but stayed for the airy, open sound. And there is not necessarily a positive correlation between the cost of earbuds and the sound quality. Earbuds have a huge (single dynamic) driver relative to most IEM's. Some of the low cost options offer amazing SQ and value!


----------



## tinkertailor

Today I'm really digging the K 64 ohm. They are more relaxed than my qian39s. Keep in mind i like the monk's better than the monk+. I don't know what half of you are talking about with imagins, depth etc I find it difficult to articulate what I like about certain earbuds. Anyways, right now the k 64's might be my favourite buds. Super warm. Soft even, but not in bad way. Drums sound great in the softness. That could change tomorrow so who knows.


----------



## Sp12er3

Keep in mind that some earbud can have quite big housing so if you are small ears it might trouble you, some people also has their own opinion about foam/ silicon, I for one sometimes find the foam scratchy, and the friction can damage your ear if you force it in. 
For me I go for earbud when I want some more clear natural sound while also added awareness, its lack of isolation is rather than a negative, is its strong point IMO. 
IEMs is best for when you want to isolate yourself. 

Chiming in one 1More triple driver I find it unexceptional, I find it a bit harder to drive than average IEM, only come to live after it has more juice driving it, ie on My Fiio M3, IEMs and earbuds usually driven fine around 18-24/60 depending on sensitivity and impedance, the 1More need around 28-30/60, and it's not much better on the low end than my XBA100, with less compelling highs too. IMO the dynamic driver is superior than the BA in it, kinda can hear the disproportion.


----------



## AT Khan

Quote:


ira delphic said:


> rockingthearies said:
> 
> 
> > midnightempest said:
> ...


 
  
 Amen to that brother... Amen. I myself have now completely moved to earbuds. Been using IEMs for so long. Now I just cant go back. Buds too natural and almost non-fatiguing to me. I could get any kind of IEMs I like, and have bought better IEMs for friends and family... but then some buds too hehehe.
  
 $5 to $10 buds are like... man, 90% endgame stuff for me really hehehe...


----------



## tinkertailor

at khan said:


> Quote:
> 
> Amen to that brother... Amen. I myself have now completely moved to earbuds. Been using IEMs for so long. Now I just cant go back. Buds too natural and almost non-fatiguing to me. I could get any kind of IEMs I like, and have bought better IEMs for friends and family... but then some buds too hehehe.
> 
> $5 to $10 buds are like... man, 90% endgame stuff for me really hehehe...


 
 Earbuds are like comfy  jogging pants for the ears.


----------



## Willber

midnightempest said:


> townyj said:
> 
> 
> > Wrong thread dude.
> ...


 
  
 Best thing to do is look at this thread:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds
  
 Try three or four for about $20 total and see what you prefer. I've decided that I don't need to spend more to get great sound quality. My personal recommendations to start with are:
  
 Sony E808+
 Qian39
 Philips SHE3800
 TY Hi-Z 32
  
 You can always come back here to discuss your likes/dislikes and help you decide if you want to spend more.


----------



## AT Khan

willber said:


> midnightempest said:
> 
> 
> > townyj said:
> ...


 

 Wow you spoke my heart out. Yeah $20 is nothing to get you on track.
  
 BTW Willber, how do all these compare to each other? I have the TY which I adore so much now... how are the other 3?


----------



## Willber

at khan said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Best thing to do is look at this thread:
> ...


 
  
 My preference is in the order above, but that assumes the TY v2 (L-shaped plug). I also have the v1 (straight plug) which is no longer available which just comes top for me, but it's close between all of them. And there are others, of course... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 (Edit: I use EQ so it doesn't matter to me what the signature is like. All of them are v-shaped but for non-EQ usage I think the SHE3800 has the most neutral sig.)


----------



## alizeofeniquito

tinkertailor said:


> Today I'm really digging the K 64 ohm. They are more relaxed than my qian39s. Keep in mind i like the monk's better than the monk+. I don't know what half of you are talking about with imagins, depth etc I find it difficult to articulate what I like about certain earbuds. Anyways, right now the k 64's might be my favourite buds. Super warm. Soft even, but not in bad way. Drums sound great in the softness. That could change tomorrow so who knows.


 
 mx98 or k64? which is better?


----------



## tinkertailor

alizeofeniquito said:


> mx98 or k64? which is better?


 
 Good question, ive sort of done a 180 on it. I like the sound sig on the mx98, but its very forward.There is something very full about it, but maybe its cold. Its got quite a present mid bass. Someone orig. compared to grado, i think i can see why. But its almost like I find the mx98s too much. And maybe because the k's are cheaper i feel less concerned wearing them so i relax. But they seem softer. I think i like them more than my monks, which i can't wear cuz they are broken today. I feel really troubled giving reviews because, like beer for me, things sound/taste different each time, and my tastes shift however i would like to try to add something to a discussion since i have earbuds and i'd like to help people save cash and time. So,  today Im saying i like the k's earphone 64 more. I would say the mx98s have more detail, and provide a fuller sound overall, particularly strong in the mids. the mx98 are probablly more detailed/revealing while the k64 are soft. The k's just please. I'm all about cheap buds since i wear buds several hours a day and they break easy. the k's earphone 64 were cheaper so that is a huge plus. For an idea of my tastes, I prefer the older monks to monk plus because of soft lower sound despite loss of detail.  Its difficult, so many earbuds are so similar in quality level, the differences are subtle. its not like back when the first apple earbuds, or even earpods were out and how clearly yuin pk2s were better than that.


----------



## Willber

> Its difficult, so many earbuds are so similar in quality level, the differences are subtle. its not like back when the first apple earbuds, or even earpods were out and how clearly yuin pk2s were better than that.


 
  
 This is true.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

alizeofeniquito said:


> mx98 or k64? which is better?


 
  
 I have both on order... should be any day now.  I can't wait to hear what they sound like back to back.  There is also the Qian39 in the package as well.
  
 --


----------



## Saoshyant

Just got in the Qian25 along with some accessories for my KZs, so gave it a short listen out of the box.  It really does feel a bit more neutral than the Qian39, and will probably test it's detail capabilities once my new Dap comes in tomorrow.


----------



## SuperMAG

i have yet to see a high end iem vs earbud comparison. I have decided LZ A4 as my target in endgame IEM.
  
 But earbuds just offer superior comfort to me and i wanna know if current breed of TOTL earbuds can compete with say LZ A4 or similar level of iems in terms of overall sound quality, clarity, separation, detail, 3d soundstage and BASS.
  
 Can Sozy Stardust/cygnus, K500, roze Mojito and TYHIZ650 compare with this LZ A4 in terms of sound qualty,


----------



## ClieOS

supermag said:


> i have yet to see a high end iem vs earbud comparison...


 
  
 Mainly because I think it will end up too much like a high end apple vs. orange comparison.


----------



## SuperMAG

i need an idea, just an idea to get me going, do you have some highend iems to compare to??


----------



## golov17

supermag said:


> i need an idea, just an idea to get me going, do you have some highend iems to compare to??


 read his profile


----------



## Ira Delphic

If you want to compare earbuds to non-earbuds imo start a new thread. Earbuds should only be discussed here. Videos of mail being mishandled also ok


----------



## Nachash

willber said:


> My preference is in the order above, but that assumes the TY v2 (L-shaped plug). I also have the v1 (straight plug) which is no longer available which just comes top for me, but it's close between all of them. And there are others, of course...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  


willber said:


> My preference is in the order above, but that assumes the TY v2 (L-shaped plug). I also have the v1 (straight plug) which is no longer available which just comes top for me, but it's close between all of them. And there are others, of course...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The She3800 is way too dark and boomy to be considered neutral, at least for me
  


saoshyant said:


> Just got in the Qian25 along with some accessories for my KZs, so gave it a short listen out of the box.  It really does feel a bit more neutral than the Qian39, and will probably test it's detail capabilities once my new Dap comes in tomorrow.


 
 The Qian25 on the other hand is pretty great and more neutral than both the Qian39 and the SHE3800


----------



## Ira Delphic

I just broke down and ordered a TY HP-650. I'm curious to find out how it compares to my favorite earbuds - **** PT15, Qian25 and MP. The build quality and cabling looks nice but will it be the earbud that I reach for most often? That's the real test so time will tell. My source is LG V10.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

ira delphic said:


> I just broke down and ordered a TY HP-650. I'm curious to find out how it compares to my favorite earbuds - **** PT15, Qian25 and MP. The build quality and cabling looks nice but will it be the earbud that I reach for most often? That's the real test so time will tell. My source is LG V10.


 

 I have the TY HP-650 and the cable is quite nice.  I am putting a HUGE review together of most of the TY Earbud Line.  I JUST finished the photo shoot last night as it took a while since I had 7 pairs of the TY to take pictures of.  I think it all turned out decent enough.  I hope to have it completed by next week.
  
  
 As much as I enjoy my higher end earbuds, like the TY HP-650, the K's 500ohm and some of the nicer MusicMaker Earbuds.  I find myself reaching for my budget buds more often than not.  
  
  
 I've noticed that I use my T-Music DIY Version2 the most lately.  It is a great sound from a budget bud.
  
 --


----------



## Fabi

K's 300 pop out on AE, not very expensive but standard cable and L plug.
 The K's marking on the top of the shell look cool.


----------



## Danneq

supermag said:


> i have yet to see a high end iem vs earbud comparison. I have decided LZ A4 as my target in endgame IEM.
> 
> But earbuds just offer superior comfort to me and i wanna know if current breed of TOTL earbuds can compete with say LZ A4 or similar level of iems in terms of overall sound quality, clarity, separation, detail, 3d soundstage and BASS.
> 
> Can Sozy Stardust/cygnus, K500, roze Mojito and TYHIZ650 compare with this LZ A4 in terms of sound qualty,
 

 What sort of sound signature do you like? If we just look at TOTL earbuds, there is a big difference between for example Rose Mojito and TY HiZ HP650. Almost night and day.


----------



## SuperMAG

Mmm. I like the big bass, extended treble but not siblance, thick yet sharp vocals. Think a mix of monk+ and ty32.
I like huge huge 3d soundstage, clear and top class seperation. I like the big sound monk+ double foam do like an echo or something that massages my ear. It makes the stage big.

I only have my note 4 and msi gx640 laptop to use. But might buy walnut or other buget player.


I am looking at hp650 and k500 as they are in my price range and in cart but hears k's are fatiguing despite having better seperation and soundstage and scoring way higher in clio list.

I am thinking of buying an endgame iem in a4 and endgame earbud in these 2 as no one want to give me some comparisons between iem and earbuds. The reason i am not in a hurry is that i have monk+ and senfer4in1 and piston2 that zatisfy my needs but want an overall endgame upgrade.


----------



## Danneq

Except for the bass, HP650 should tick all of your boxes. It does respond well to EQ so bass can be increased. Cypherus CampFred is close to HP650 in the overall sound signature but I find it to be better since it's low impedance and it also has got great bass for an earbud. It is very laid back, though. Details are top notch. but they don't "pop out" like on other earbuds. As soon as you listen to the music and start getting into it, you start noticing the great soundstage and instrument separation.

 Bass and microdetail on an earbud should not be able to compete with a top tier IEM, but I cannot imagine an IEM having a bigger soundstage and more airy sound than an earbud...


----------



## Danneq

You could also get Red De'mun and Edimun V3, where you would pay little less than $200 with shipping included for both of them. The cables are a bit stiff but other than that they are both great for the price. Very close to the best TOTL earbuds. They sort of complement each other with Edimun V3 being slightly V shaped and Red De'mun having more focus on mids.


----------



## SuperMAG

I though hp650 had big bass. Oh well, i am buying one totl earbud and i dont like layed back sound too. I like exciting one.

What do u think of k 500?


----------



## vapman

supermag said:


> I though hp650 had big bass. Oh well, i am buying one totl earbud and i dont like layed back sound too. I like exciting one.
> 
> What do u think of k 500?


 
 650 doesn't have big bass.... unless you have a good amp and EQ.  even then, it's still not the biggest bass you can get from a bud.


----------



## SuperMAG

Any other totl bud with worldclass soundstage and seperation and similar perference to mine?


----------



## Danneq

supermag said:


> I though hp650 had big bass. Oh well, i am buying one totl earbud and i dont like layed back sound too. I like exciting one.
> 
> What do u think of k 500?




Bass is a bit "flabby" on HP650. But with EQ it can become pretty good. CampFred is laid back and very very natural sounding, but it's not rolled off in any way (treble or bass). It just presents the music without coloring it like many other earbuds do. Bass and sub bass is very good for an earbud. I think that only Zen 1 has got deeper bass than CampFred. However, the bass is more integrated into the music on CampFred and not as dominating as on Zen 1. Edimun V3 has got a sound signature that is pretty close to the one of Zen 1, but not as "wild" as Zen 1.

I found K500 to have a bit sharp upper mids. It's not like the treble is too bright, but more like there is a peak in the upper mids that can be fatiguing if you listen for a longer time. Bass is rally good on K500 as well.


----------



## SuperMAG

Man why does these companies makes that nasty peak. Why. Even my **** has that one.


----------



## vapman

I'm gonna back up Edimun V3 as a stellar choice for energetic sound lovers.


----------



## SuperMAG

vapman said:


> I'm gonna back up Edimun V3 as a stellar choice for energetic sound lovers.




Does v3 has similar 3d soundstage and worldclass seperation as the other totl earbuds?


----------



## vapman

supermag said:


> Does v3 has similar 3d soundstage and worldclass seperation as the other totl earbuds?


 
  I would say so.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

How would you describe the TY 32*s'*s Sound Signature


----------



## Danneq

supermag said:


> Does v3 has similar 3d soundstage and worldclass seperation as the other totl earbuds?




It is very close. I actually prefer Edimun V3 to Zen 1 even if Zen 1 is more energetic. The soundstage is not as big as on K500 or even CampFred but you get a good 3D feel of the instruments.


----------



## tinkertailor

danneq said:


> It is very close. I actually prefer Edimun V3 to Zen 1 even if Zen 1 is more energetic.


 


vapman said:


> I'm gonna back up Edimun V3 as a stellar choice for energetic sound lovers.


 
 What do you mean by energetic?  (do they sound energetic - and if so how, or are they good for energetic music?)


----------



## Danneq

tinkertailor said:


> What do you mean by energetic?  (do they sound energetic - and if so how, or are they good for energetic music?)




It might be the slight V shape. If you compare, say TY32 (I have only heard version 1) with Monk+, the former is more V shaped and treble and bass appears to be more forward and "energetic". Monk+ is more flat in its frequency response and might appear less "energetic" and more "neutral" because of that. Edimun V3 and Zen 1 is more towards TY32 or Qian39 while CampFred and TY650 is more toward Monk+.

For energetic music I would actually pick something more laid back. Otherwise my ears would get tired very fast...


----------



## tinkertailor

danneq said:


> For energetic music I would actually pick something more laid back. Otherwise my ears would get tired very fast...


 
 Makes a lot of sense. Might be why i like the laid back K's earphone 64s now...they are more pleasing and analogueish to listen to the sort of sebadoh and pavement type indie rock i often enjoy, which to me is quite energetic, the drums sounds nice and soft, but there is still detail and and clear quiet background


----------



## vapman

tinkertailor said:


> Makes a lot of sense. Might be why i like the laid back K's earphone 64s now...they are more pleasing and analogueish to listen to the sort of sebadoh and pavement type indie rock i often enjoy, which to me is quite energetic, the drums sounds nice and soft, but there is still detail and and clear quiet background


 
 I agree mostly about the K's 64 sound, but I couldn't get over the treble peak which tired me out quicker than any energetic bud sound signature.
  
 Only problem I can think about with Edimun V3, is that stuff sounds energetic even when it doesn't in the original recording. There is a permanent sort of magic sparkle on the sound but it can get tiring as well. Plus, it isn't the best choice for laid back sound fans or those who aren't fans of the V signature.


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> I agree mostly about the K's 64 sound, but I couldn't get over the treble peak which tired me out quicker than any energetic bud sound signature.
> 
> Only problem I can think about with Edimun V3, is that stuff sounds energetic even when it doesn't in the original recording. There is a permanent sort of magic sparkle on the sound but it can get tiring as well. Plus, it isn't the best choice for laid back sound fans or those who aren't fans of the V signature.




I do prefer a more laid back presentation, but Edimun V3 is just difficult to resist for me. I don't really know why. Perhaps because there are no peaks that are tiring (despite that v shaped sound). It's the same with Tomahawk which is quite energetic and that I just love for some reason (and about 50% of the people who has tried it hate it). Something like CampFred is the complete opposite with a very laid back sound that still does not become too flat (which can be a risk - look at Musicmaker Ting or at least partly Sennheiser MX985).


----------



## Tympan

danneq said:


> What sort of sound signature do you like? If we just look at TOTL earbuds, there is a big difference between for example Rose Mojito and TY HiZ HP650. Almost night and day.


 
  
 Mojitos would be the vegan salad, HP650 would be the hamburger with eggs and bacon.
  
 If K500, and HP650 and Campfred were cars, K500 would be the sport Range Rover (all roads, comfortable, with massive power under the hood), HP650 would be the Lincoln limousine  (smoothest ride, ), and Campfred would be the Golf R (smaller, a little dry compared to the other two but articulate and effortless)


----------



## springbay

One year ago I only had one "modern" ear bud - VE Monk.
 During 2016 I extended the collection with about 30 new buds. The final few from 11.11 (TY Hi-Z HP320M and HP650) arrived this week. And right now I have no more buds incoming.
  
 I've come to the conclusion that I actually only need 4 or maybe 5 buds to cover all my needs.
  
 1. *Seahf LD-3.0 320* - being my all round buds that don't excel in any specific area other than being like absolute butter to my ears. I use them either when I want laid back music listening or watching talk television.
  
 2. *K's Earphone 500* - the love affair I have devolved with the the bass on these buds can't be compared to the relationship I have with any of my other head gear. Oh yes, they can misbehave and send you some sharp high tones if you feed them with music that they don't like, but that only adds to the dynamic of the love affair. I use them whenever I want to feel energetic, and that seems to be most of my waken hours, nowadays.
  
 3. *Rose Mojito* - the K's 500 do great with acoustic music, but are clearly trumped by the Mojitos. While I can hear the strings vibrate on an acoustic guitar on the K's500, I can almost smell the air in the room where the music was recorded on the Mojitos. They are absolutely non forgiving, but can also emancipate the listening experience like no other bud I've heard. I was five years old when Keith Jarrett recorded the Köln Concert, but experiencing it on The Mojitos, I feel like it's happening here and now and that I'm present at the opera house. The Mojitos other forte is that they are great with heavy metal. No easy listening with these buds. They demand your full attention as soon as you pop them into your ears.
  
 4. *AUGLAMOUR RX-1* - I like to listen to pod casts in bed. I wouldn't dare to use the Mojitos in any situation where there is even a slight possibility that I could fall asleep. I'm certain they would break with even the tiniest tension put at the wrong place. The RX-1 on the other hand are the only buds the barking dog next door would not be able to chew to bits. I also love the small foot print of the RX-1. They are the only buds that I can use with my ear pressed to the pillow (and I use ergonomic, hard af Tempur pillows). Also I sometimes use them with the RUIZU X02 dap in bed listening to some Buddha Bar when going to sleep, without ever worrying that I will break some expensive gear while asleep. 
  
 5. This is a special. I didn't like my *FAAEAL 300* one bit when I took them out of the box. But somehow they were totally transformed with some simple modding (placing a Monk+ thin foam behind the driver for better controlled bass, and plugging the middle front facing vent holes with cotton to open up the mids and highs). They are not my best sounding ear buds, but they were cheap enough and sound good enough driven by my iPhone (way better than my low impedance buds), that I can't resist using them as my commuter buds without worrying that I will lose them.
  
 To sum it up. I feel like I have all the buds that I need. I'm certain there are other buds out there, and that there will be new buds released in the near future, that could fill my needs even better. But right now I feel content with my gear. And that is a satisfying feeling. A feeling I hope all subscribers of this thread can feel towards the end of the year.
  
*Happy holidays to all of you! *





  
 ...and remember, like my avatar would say: there are no short cuts to the perfect sound!


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, after a month my 1more earbud bought on 11.11 has a tracking update. It's still in China.


----------



## luckyeights

So i got my qian 39 in the mail today........ I dont think i have ever been so impressed by an earbud.  I have the ve monks, tp musics, au glamour, ty 650 and rose masya.  And these little qian 39s are just really impressive.  I wont say they beat the ty 650s or beat the rose masyas but lets just say they give them a real run for their money.  They are like a ty650 with bass boost and I would say ever so slightly warmer sound signature with a wider sound stage.  Compared to the masya the masya wins in airiness but in all honesty the masya sounds more digital while the qian 39 more organic.  They are kind of hard to compare really because i really dont care too much for the masya's un-eqed which all comparisons i make are not eqed so you get a much better idea on how they compare. 
  
 The one thing though that i can slightly pick up on is that the ty650 and masya are faster than the q39.  Its not a huge difference but noticeable in very fast paced music.  
  
 Now the qian 39 earbuds are bass buds the most bass i have heard from an earbud thus far but they are no slouch in the other frequencies. But i would not recommend them to anyone looking for  flat response.  These are like a bass heads wet dream in earbud form.  I would not boost the bass on these they have plenty more than other buds boosted.
  
 So what about detail retrieval? I would say they are very close to the same level as the ty650 but behind the masya in detail retrieval.    
  
 If you dont have these i would highly recommend you pick up a pair they are supper cheap and they are just very good.  I would never recommend the ve monks over these ever.  If i were to give these a price in comparison to the rose masya and ty 650 i would give them a value of around $80 dollars.  Why because they perform so closely to the ty650 but have more bass.


----------



## luckyeights

Hey vapman what mods did you do to your qian 39s and what were the results in comparison?  I am very curious after having heard the qian 39s stock being as great as they are.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

alright I'm getting the Qian 39, Are there different version of the Earbud that I should know of? Saw an option with L-Plug & Straight-Plug. They're both the same correct?


----------



## probability99

bloodypenguin said:


> I have the TY HP-650 and the cable is quite nice.  I am putting a HUGE review together of most of the TY Earbud Line.  I JUST finished the photo shoot last night as it took a while since I had 7 pairs of the TY to take pictures of.  I think it all turned out decent enough.  I hope to have it completed by next week.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Nice, is it include TY Hp32 and TY HP32s (red)... Wondering what is the different


----------



## vapman

luckyeights said:


> Hey vapman what mods did you do to your qian 39s and what were the results in comparison?  I am very curious after having heard the qian 39s stock being as great as they are.


 
 Tons of mods. Too many to name! They all had varying effects on overall sound. I have to say as they are stock is one of the best sounds. The best thing you can do if you love the sound is put a better cable on. The stock cable is thin as heck.
  
 I have a set of qian39 drivers in a Sony HPM 64 enclosure with a lot of blue tac. That is heavier bass than stock and a bit more pronounced midrange.
  
 If you want to tighten up the bass and get beautiful intricate detailing put a silver cable on it. Pure silver, no copper.


----------



## Lionlian

My friend just throw away a chance to get TM7 when he compared TM7 to his MX985, says MX985 has better soundstage and better 3D presentation, *******it.


----------



## luckyeights

vapman said:


> Tons of mods. Too many to name! They all had varying effects on overall sound. I have to say as they are stock is one of the best sounds. The best thing you can do if you love the sound is put a better cable on. The stock cable is thin as heck.
> 
> I have a set of qian39 drivers in a Sony HPM 64 enclosure with a lot of blue tac. That is heavier bass than stock and a bit more pronounced midrange.
> 
> If you want to tighten up the bass and get beautiful intricate detailing put a silver cable on it. Pure silver, no copper.What sil


 
 What silver cable did you use?


----------



## vapman

luckyeights said:


> What silver cable did you use?


 
 Whatever came on white K's 64.... I really could not stand the K's driver even after modding that heavily


----------



## alizeofeniquito

love the qian39 without foams so comportable.
  
 can anyone compare qian39 against sony e808+?


----------



## Lionlian

Have e818 in past, and it hurt my ears...


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

is Aliexpress a safe place to buy? / enter in your CC?


----------



## Lionlian

Much much much... safeter than ebay, low shipping cost and fast delivery.


----------



## tinkertailor

lionlian said:


> Much much much... safeter than ebay, low shipping cost and fast delivery.


 
 fast delivery?


----------



## Lionlian

Sorry I mean shipping times, Just less than two week and I get seahf, my region is southeast asia anyway.


----------



## Danneq

lionlian said:


> My friend just throw away a chance to get TM7 when he compared TM7 to his MX985, says MX985 has better soundstage and better 3D presentation, *******it.




Personally I do not agree with that. Well, perhaps MX985 has got a slightly more spacious feel, but TM7 has got better instrument separation and layering (you can tell that the instruments are placed at different depths in the soundstage, in front and behind each other).


----------



## Lionlian

I'm not surprise consider he sold off his ANV3se before, I hope he should just give in some more time for TM7, mr.golov shall be pround of him lol.


----------



## flamesofarctica

danneq said:


> It might be the slight V shape. If you compare, say TY32 (I have only heard version 1) with Monk+, the former is more V shaped and treble and bass appears to be more forward and "energetic". Monk+ is more flat in its frequency response and might appear less "energetic" and more "neutral" because of that.




That must be my preferred sound, because I still find of all the budget buds, the Monk+ is the one I keep coming back to, more for example than the Qian39.

I mostly listen at bedtime when I'm winding down, and I do like a bit of a smooth, relaxed sound.

That's why it's surprised me when the recent lists of budget buds have omitted the Monk+. If somebody was to buy a range of 4-5 cheaper buds to try, it would be a shame to miss the Monk+ off the list


----------



## vapman

flamesofarctica said:


> That must be my preferred sound, because I still find of all the budget buds, the Monk+ is the one I keep coming back to, more for example than the Qian39.
> 
> I mostly listen at bedtime when I'm winding down, and I do like a bit of a smooth, relaxed sound.
> 
> That's why it's surprised me when the recent lists of budget buds have omitted the Monk+. If somebody was to buy a range of 4-5 cheaper buds to try, it would be a shame to miss the Monk+ off the list


 
 Agreed 100%.... they will always be at or near the top of my budget bud lists. The Qian39 is the only one I can think of that even gives it competition in my honest opinion.


----------



## Lionlian

Greatest thing I found on earbuds is that price/performance is at skyrocket level, my monk MsVP is beat my Fullsize ATH AD700 out of water.


----------



## vapman

lionlian said:


> Greatest thing I found on earbuds is that price/performance is at skyrocket level, my monk MsVP is beat my Fullsize ATH AD700 out of water.


 
 In hawaiibadboy's video review of the Monk+ he stated it's scary close to his Sony EX1000 in terms of overall quality... two of my friends who were diehard Senn 600/650 fans sold all their full size phones within a year  of getting their first Monk.
  
 I am using Monk+ on Walnut right now and it's just way too good.


----------



## Danneq

flamesofarctica said:


> That must be my preferred sound, because I still find of all the budget buds, the Monk+ is the one I keep coming back to, more for example than the Qian39.
> 
> I mostly listen at bedtime when I'm winding down, and I do like a bit of a smooth, relaxed sound.
> 
> That's why it's surprised me when the recent lists of budget buds have omitted the Monk+. If somebody was to buy a range of 4-5 cheaper buds to try, it would be a shame to miss the Monk+ off the list




At first I didn't like Monk+ compared to the original Monk but that soon changed. Monk+ is probably my favorite budget earbud. I find Cypherus CampFred to be a sort of TOTL version of Monk+. Laid back and neutral and maybe underwhelming at first, but when you start to really listen you discover how sophisticated it is.


----------



## Lionlian

I'm not go that far though, lol.

But I did really sold my Sony MA900 to get Blox ANV3.


----------



## dearyon

vapman said:


> Whatever came on white K's 64.... I really could not stand the K's driver even after modding that heavily


 
 FYI, the cable come on K's 64 white is not pure silver. It is only a silver plated copper.

 I have to say K's 64 white now is my favorite buds
 I have Monk+, TY Hi-Z 32 L-plug, Boarseman K25/K25s, **** PT15 and still prefer the K's 64 over all of them.
 I just cannot hear any fault on the sound. It is sound detailed, smooth, balanced and laid back without any peak, a really good all rounder for me.
 not to mention its sound stage, it is not too wide not too cramped either... just right... and the imaging is really good in this price range.


----------



## Joy Boy

supermag said:


> Mmm. I like the big bass, extended treble but not siblance, thick yet sharp vocals. Think a mix of monk+ and ty32.
> I like huge huge 3d soundstage, clear and top class seperation. I like the big sound monk+ double foam do like an echo or something that massages my ear. It makes the stage big.
> 
> I only have my note 4 and msi gx640 laptop to use. But might buy walnut or other buget player.
> ...



I will recommend you ve zen v1 for that criteria. Another contender is ve asura beta (which is so rare) and edimun v3/red demun.




lionlian said:


> My friend just throw away a chance to get TM7 when he compared TM7 to his MX985, says MX985 has better soundstage and better 3D presentation, *******it.







lionlian said:


> I'm not surprise consider he sold off his ANV3se before, I hope he should just give in some more time for TM7, mr.golov shall be pround of him lol.



May i ask your friend contact?
I would gladly take a chance to buy TM7 or ANV3se


----------



## SuperMAG

Can i still find zen1?


----------



## Joy Boy

supermag said:


> Can i still find zen1?



Not the brand new one. I've ever seen second hand on e-bay and local group in my country


----------



## Lionlian

joy boy said:


> I will recommend you ve zen v1 for that criteria. Another contender is ve asura beta (which is so rare) and edimun v3/red demun.
> 
> May i ask your friend contact?
> I would gladly take a chance to buy TM7 or ANV3se




He is from Thailand headphone facebook group and already sold off his many entry level and flagship of earbuds and now he only have Marantz 660 and MX985 and going to get ATH CM700 and mojito soon,

maybe contract to golov is better choice because he is on the same facebook group and I'm not too familiar with facebook.


----------



## golov17

he sells only in Thailand for cash


----------



## Joy Boy

lionlian said:


> He is from Thailand headphone facebook group and already sold off his many entry level and flagship of earbuds and now he only have Marantz 660 and MX985 and going to get ATH CM700 and mojito soon,
> 
> maybe contract to golov is better choice because he is on the same facebook group and I'm not too familiar with facebook.







golov17 said:


> he sells only in Thailand for cash



It's unfortunate he only accept bahti. From all earbud, i really curious of TM7, ANV3se, and aiwa v99.
So glad if i can have at least one of them


----------



## Sound Eq

i have no experience what so ever with ear buds, can i ask which is the best earbud out there now, that has great sound stage, bass and is not harsh sounding


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, decided to give my new Opus #1 a try with my favorite vocals test track with the Masya.  Oh wow the two sound lovely together.  Great detail on everything, although I imagine Mojito would surpass this.  The vocals are just wonderful too, so I'm really happy with the pairing so far.  I wasn't entirely sure I was going to pick up the dap, but it came with a free Fidue A83 FB, so that sold me.


----------



## Fabi

Can you believe it?
 One of my 11.11 orders becomes true today, a true Xmas (auto)gift.
 It's finally there, TY HP650 for a battle of big ohms against K's 500 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Merry Xmas to all earbud lovers!


----------



## luckyeights

So I let the qian 39 burn in over night and the high end improved as well as the tightness of the bass.  overall they improved nicely in the exact areas i was hoping for.
  
 The reason i dont like the monk plus is because it has a veil over the entire frequency spectrum and my ears are always searching for whats missing it drives me crazy.   There is no veil on the qian 39, rose masya, ty650, pt 15, t music.
  
 Something else i noticed about the qian 39 is that the mids are also very good more forward than the ty650 , makes them good for vocals. 
  
 For $6 the qian 39 are a steal if you ask me.  And i would recommend them as anyone's first start bud hands down.  Hell it might even be my end game bud but i wont know that till i eventually get my stardusts but i really like them right now. The only thing they lack is the airiness of the masyas.


----------



## golov17

btw, I want to confirm that Cygnus require a lot of burning, which would realize their full potential, apparently, really made of a stock of old drivers, so do not rush to get rid of them


----------



## Danneq

supermag said:


> Can i still find zen1?




I would recommend Edimun V3, perhaps rhodium plug before gold plug. It really is very close to Zen 1, it's like a baby Zen 1. I just traded back my pair of Zen 1 to the previous owner and got my old pair of Zen 2 back. Edimun V3 gives you 95% of Zen 1. It's just slightly less wild and bass impact is not as big but otherwise you will not need Zen 1 if you've got Edimun V3...




sound eq said:


> i have no experience what so ever with ear buds, can i ask which is the best earbud out there now, that has great sound stage, bass and is not harsh sounding




It can be difficult to tick all the boxes. There are TOTL earbuds that tick one or two but not many that tick all three. My suggestion would be Cypherus CampFred. Soundstage that is better than most earbuds (but not the best), quite good bass (deeper and better controlled than most) and not harsh at all (very laid back but still detailed sound).
It will however cost you $150 without shipping...

If you can skip good bass, there is TY HiZ HP650. If you can accept a bit harsh sound there is K's 500 ohm and Rose Mojito...


----------



## SuperMAG

luckyeights said:


> So I let the qian 39 burn in over night and the high end improved as well as the tightness of the bass.  overall they improved nicely in the exact areas i was hoping for.
> 
> The reason i dont like the monk plus is because it has a veil over the entire frequency spectrum and my ears are always searching for whats missing it drives me crazy.   There is no veil on the qian 39, rose masya, ty650, pt 15, t music.
> 
> ...




Did u buy straight plug or L plug one.



danneq said:


> I would recommend Edimun V3, perhaps rhodium plug before gold plug. It really is very close to Zen 1, it's like a baby Zen 1. I just traded back my pair of Zen 1 to the previous owner and got my old pair of Zen 2 back. Edimun V3 gives you 95% of Zen 1. It's just slightly less wild and bass impact is not as big but otherwise you will not need Zen 1 if you've got Edimun V3...
> It can be difficult to tick all the boxes. There are TOTL earbuds that tick one or two but not many that tick all three. My suggestion would be Cypherus CampFred. Soundstage that is better than most earbuds (but not the best), quite good bass (deeper and better controlled than most) and not harsh at all (very laid back but still detailed sound).
> It will however cost you $150 without shipping...
> 
> If you can skip good bass, there is TY HiZ HP650. If you can accept a bit harsh sound there is K's 500 ohm and Rose Mojito...




The reviews of zen1 is completely different then thesound u describing. I think v3 is also the best for me but i want neutral and not v shaped, similar to monk+. U also mentioned the red demun has bigger soundstage then v3.

Can u put the list of best soundstage size and depth and seperation of instruments and sounds you have heared in any price bracket in earbuds.


----------



## vapman

supermag said:


> Did u buy straight plug or L plug one.
> The reviews of zen1 is completely different then thesound u describing. I think v3 is also the best for me but i want neutral and not v shaped, similar to monk+. U also mentioned the red demun has bigger soundstage then v3.
> 
> Can u put the list of best soundstage size and depth and seperation of instruments and sounds you have heared in any price bracket in earbuds.




Danneq did a huge comparison just of what you're asking a few pages ago. The post has 10 likes or something.


----------



## Townyj

Just bought the HE-150 and Colorad C01 from Penon. Keen to hear them both


----------



## Willber

alizeofeniquito said:


> love the qian39 without foams so comportable.
> 
> can anyone compare qian39 against sony e808+?


 
  
 I didn't like the E808+ plus at first and nearly gave up on them - woolly (but deep) bass, thin mids and sharp highs. But I persevered for a few days and it all changed - bass tightened up, mids filled out and highs became smoother. And the soundstage grew in all dimensions. I think I prefer them to my Qian39 now...


----------



## purplesun

willber said:


> I didn't like the E808+ plus at first and nearly gave up on them - woolly (but deep) bass, thin mids and sharp highs. But I persevered for a few days and it all changed - bass tightened up, mids filled out and highs became smoother. And the soundstage grew in all dimensions. I think I prefer them to my Qian39 now...



Thanks for the quick comparison against qian39. Was also interested on how both these cheapie wonders line up. 

I reckon E808+ reaches a listenable state after 3 days of mid-volume burn-in. It will continue to slowly smoothen to a more natural sound after that.


----------



## Danneq

supermag said:


> Did u buy straight plug or L plug one.
> The reviews of zen1 is completely different then thesound u describing. I think v3 is also the best for me but i want neutral and not v shaped, similar to monk+. U also mentioned the red demun has bigger soundstage then v3.
> 
> Can u put the list of best soundstage size and depth and seperation of instruments and sounds you have heared in any price bracket in earbuds.




Well, Edimun V3 sure is energetic. I assumed you prefered stuff like good bass and soundstage before a neutral sound. I think that Zen 1 is one of the most energetic earbuds I have heard. Edimun V3 is a bit more calm but still quite energetic.

Like Vapman mentions I did compare the 3 Cypherus earbuds with Red De'mun and Edimun V3 a few days ago.

It would take a lot of time to do the list you ask for. Is soundstage really your top priority?

CAX black would be no 1 for soundstage, then Aiwa HP D9, then perhaps Aiwa V99, then K500, then CampFred, then Rose Mojito, then Red De'mun, then Qfred (not very wide soundstage but very deep), then Sennheiser MX985...

This is just off the top of my head.

Many of them are discontinued. Some are more wide than deep. Some are better at soundstage depth even if they are not too wide.

If Cypherus makes more CAX black you will be happy. Red De'mun might be good. Together with Edimun V3 you would get some variation and great sound for less than $200. CampFred is not too far from CAX black in sound signature. It's a step down in soundstage size, instrument separation etc. Only bass is better than on CAX black (at least more deep compared to the neutral but still good bass on CAX black).


----------



## pack21

purplesun said:


> Thanks for the quick comparison against qian39. Was also interested on how both these cheapie wonders line up.
> 
> I reckon E808+ reaches a listenable state after 3 days of mid-volume burn-in. It will continue to slowly smoothen to a more natural sound after that.




I hope so, because out they box it isn't greater.


----------



## Willber

pack21 said:


> purplesun said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the quick comparison against qian39. Was also interested on how both these cheapie wonders line up.
> ...


 

 Don't give up!


----------



## purplesun

pack21 said:


> I hope so, because out they box it isn't greater.


 
  
 Won't get a lot more thicker-sounding though. As the big FR dip in upper-bass region will still remain, though lesser with more use. IIRC, the gradual smoothening took weeks of use, instead of days. So will be tough running it in, if you don't like it at 3-day burn-in.


----------



## jant71

I know e808+ is only $5 but is a legit E828 still better even if is more $$ and not as much of a value ?
  
 Merry Christmas to all!!


----------



## vapman

jant71 said:


> I know e808+ is only $5 but is a legit E828 still better even if is more $$ and not as much of a value ?
> 
> Merry Christmas to all!!



Less bass than 808+ but better in every other way.


----------



## purplesun

jant71 said:


> I know e808+ is only $5 but is a legit E828 still better even if is more $$ and not as much of a value ?


 
  
 From what I understood google-translating from chinese sellers and vietnamese forum users, the E808+ had an edge in bass & midrange performance over E818, E828 and even E9x9 series. But, at the same time, there's was also talk of copies, fakes & variations in E808+ production, so I can't be too sure if the comparisons were flawed or true.
  
 At US$3.86 on Ali, & about US$2 on taobao, imho, it's cheap enough to give it a try. Just make sure there's E808+ moulded on the splitter and 5-of-diamond shaped holes in the front mesh.


----------



## jant71

Thanks @vapman! Another question...anyone remember these:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Vintage-TDK-Compact-Mini-Headphones-in-Cassette-Tape-Holder-1989-CMH/112217149471?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D38530%26meid%3Dad5698f088c846e995d771d44e637bc6%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D222346225866&rt=nc


----------



## Joy Boy

supermag said:


> Did u buy straight plug or L plug one.
> The reviews of zen1 is completely different then thesound u describing. I think v3 is also the best for me but i want neutral and not v shaped, similar to monk+. U also mentioned the red demun has bigger soundstage then v3.
> 
> Can u put the list of best soundstage size and depth and seperation of instruments and sounds you have heared in any price bracket in earbuds.



The sound sign is quite similar. I would say edimun will always be in my top 10. That's why i recommended it long ago and now it's on the list.

But for the sound, i think it has quite different level compared to zen 1. Especially in low impact. 
The unique thing from edimun is the sound can change significantly with only reterminate the jack connector.
While the gold plated one has improvement in low and mid sector, the rhodium one has improvement in high and detail. And the brand of connector plays the role too.
So, there's so much probability of improvement.
I myself have ever tried nickle plated, gold plated, rhodium plated, and rhodium-palladium plated from oyaide and other brand, and yes, the sound did exchanged


----------



## Taggerung

So I've been fiddling around with the Shozy Stardust for about 30 mins trying to get a certain fit, (my first experience with earbuds). I've managed to achieve the "squelching" sound like with silicone tips on iems. Is this how everyone else gets a "seal" with earbuds?


----------



## SuperMAG

Thanks, danneq, joy and vapman.


----------



## vapman

taggerung said:


> So I've been fiddling around with the Shozy Stardust for about 30 mins trying to get a certain fit, (my first experience with earbuds). I've managed to achieve the "squelching" sound like with silicone tips on iems. Is this how everyone else gets a "seal" with earbuds?


 
 I am not gonna lie... I am not entirely sure what you mean 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you mean the sound of the foam rubbing against your ear? However it sounds best and is comfortable for you.


----------



## Raketen

taggerung said:


> So I've been fiddling around with the Shozy Stardust for about 30 mins trying to get a certain fit, (my first experience with earbuds). I've managed to achieve the "squelching" sound like with silicone tips on iems. Is this how everyone else gets a "seal" with earbuds?




not sure i've heard "squelching" from an iem either :blink:
I usually just put them so they sit in my ears securely and with L/R balance, and give my head some time to adjust. 
 With the Stardust I use full-cover foams (mine only came with foam donuts) and also find that I need somewhat precise volume control to get the sound dialed in 'just right'.
Usually the amount of "seal" seems to mainly affect bass (and too much seal can affect the other frequencies negatively), but I find the Stardust has decent bass without trying to pin them in.


----------



## luckyeights

supermag said:


> Did u buy straight plug or L plug one.
> The reviews of zen1 is completely different then thesound u describing. I think v3 is also the best for me but i want neutral and not v shaped, similar to monk+. U also mentioned the red demun has bigger soundstage then v3.
> 
> Can u put the list of best soundstage size and depth and seperation of instruments and sounds you have heared in any price bracket in earbuds.


 
 I purchased the straight plug.


----------



## rkw

I came across 1More E1008 for $69.99 and decided I couldn't pass it up.
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Xiaomi-1MORE-E1008-Dual-Driver-In-Ear-Earphone-Earpiece-Earbuds-Headset-for-Phone-Hi-Res-Audio/32777460024.html
 ($79.99 and store promotion $10 discount for $50 purchase)


----------



## Joy Boy

Finally arrived!!
Out of the box, the sound still has blox exclusive sound, airy and spacious. But vocal is thinner than b200 or be7 mk2.
I think i'll give a few hours burning time for this little monster


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

rkw said:


> I came across 1More E1008 for $69.99 and decided I couldn't pass it up.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Xiaomi-1MORE-E1008-Dual-Driver-In-Ear-Earphone-Earpiece-Earbuds-Headset-for-Phone-Hi-Res-Audio/32777460024.html
> ($79.99 and store promotion $10 discount for $50 purchase)




Please give an impression when u get a chance.


----------



## Nachash

lel, I'm still waiting for the hck packages sent in October


----------



## mochill

My 1more e1008 is on the way


----------



## tinkertailor

.


----------



## tinkertailor

Some Japanese site that talks about a lot of the recent earbuds we've been discussing on here. My google translate does a funny translation, anyone else want to take a stab?
 http://blog.livedoor.jp/maboroshi2016/archives/6494603.html


----------



## JASru

K's 150 is on Ali, ain't it? I've seen 64, 300 and 500 so far, though...


----------



## tinkertailor

jasru said:


> K's 150 is on Ali, ain't it? I've seen 64, 300 and 500 so far, though...


 
 Apparently on Taobao https://world.taobao.com/item/538038670462.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a312a.7700824.w4004-3834745469.6.uuq9XF


----------



## Nachash

A 'SHE3010' appeared on ali, L-plug and available in red, blue and black


----------



## slim311

nachash said:


> A 'SHE3010' appeared on ali, L-plug and available in red, blue and black




5 bucks not bad, they go for ~20 on amazon with shipping, no red or black though, just blue, white, lime, purple


----------



## Sempenyi

intermezzo.

 Bengkel Macro just launch bMac 3CH Mark III


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Anyone mind sharing their thoughts on the DaiK DK Song?


----------



## luedriver

nachash said:


> A 'SHE3010' appeared on ali, L-plug and available in red, blue and black


 
  
 I thought it would be another "phiilps" like the she3800, but this is actually sold everywhere now, for about 20 AUD,
  
 this is like when I had bought my philips she3200 from ebay for about half the retail price, only its wired backwards, left is right, etc
  
 I have 2 other earbuds that have a rubber cover like this, the philips she2100 and she2670 and in my opinion, they sound better without it
  
 I use the philips she2670 with full foams and the she2100 with rubber ring, however, I rarely use them at all
  
 edit* was curious again and tried the she2100 they seem to have a clear sound but they are a bit bright and fatiguing for me, perhaps I should invest in a portable amp and stop connecting earbuds directly to the analog output of my playstations


----------



## slim311

Speaking of Philips, I just stumbled across these on taobao, MX500 shell with Philips cable (from SHE2670BG):
https://world.taobao.com/item/529568798197.htm#detail



These make me want to put on some Oakley Razor Blades, jump in my Chevy Beretta and crank some Bell Biv Devoe. It's like the late 80s/early 90s all over again!


----------



## golov17

tinkertailor said:


> Some Japanese site that talks about a lot of the recent earbuds we've been discussing on here. My google translate does a funny translation, anyone else want to take a stab?
> http://blog.livedoor.jp/maboroshi2016/archives/6494603.html


 http://www.head-fi.org/t/620467/blox-earbuds-discussion-tm7-m2c-anv3-be3-be5-be7/1005#post_13095035
His blog


----------



## vapman

tinkertailor said:


> Some Japanese site that talks about a lot of the recent earbuds we've been discussing on here. My google translate does a funny translation, anyone else want to take a stab?
> http://blog.livedoor.jp/maboroshi2016/archives/6494603.html


 
 Hey, that was a cool read. 
  
*何となく良いのは means surprisingly good (implying the reviewer had low expectations?),*
*これはちょっと, literally "It's a little...", meaning they were either below expectations or not the reviewer's cup of tea,*
*残念 means garbage.*
 
*And then the table contents are: item name, initial impression, "actual" impression after some time.*
 
*I thought the rest of it translated in a way that makes enough sense.*


----------



## tinkertailor

vapman said:


> *これはちょっと, literally "It's a little...", meaning they were either below expectations or not the reviewer's cup of tea,*


 
 Surprised to see Qian39 in the less than good category.


----------



## luedriver

vapman said:


> *I thought the rest of it translated in a way that makes enough sense.*


 
 I wonder if by  "BGM Best [ *BLOX BE3* ]* " * he actually means best earbud for background music


----------



## moon20160404

vapman said:


> Hey, that was a cool read.
> 
> *何となく良いのは means surprisingly good (implying the reviewer had low expectations?),*
> *これはちょっと, literally "It's a little...", meaning they were either below expectations or not the reviewer's cup of tea,*
> ...


 
 何となく・・・ = I have no particular reason, but I just thought so.
 Not necessarily good for everyone.
 By the way, I love B200.


----------



## vapman

luedriver said:


> I wonder if by  "BGM Best [ *BLOX BE3* ]* " * he actually means best earbud for background music


 
 That is one name for video game music...
  
  


tinkertailor said:


> Surprised to see Qian39 in the less than good category.


 
 Yeah, I was too, cause he said it was not bad with jpop. No big deal really, but surprising.
  
 I noted in his column on things he heard about buds, there were some links to posts in this thread. That was neat.


----------



## moon20160404

vapman said:


> That is one name for video game music...
> 
> 
> Yeah, I was too, cause he said it was not bad with jpop. No big deal really, but surprising.
> ...


 
 I omit a lot of English. I'm sorry.


----------



## tinkertailor

moon20160404 said:


> I omit a lot of English. I'm sorry.


 
 Hey, what do you think of the company Heavenly Sound? Is your list in order of best to worst (in your opinion)? Your review of the HS Blues makes them seem like they might be very good.


----------



## luedriver

vapman said:


> That is one name for video game music...


 
 yeah, I have heard of using looping VGM as BGM
  
 for me I listen to everything on shuffle, including VGM and BGM, there are a few sites that give legally free BGM's like incompetech.com (it's also royalty free so many youtubers use them as BGM for their videos)


----------



## moon20160404

tinkertailor said:


> Hey, what do you think of the company Heavenly Sound? Is your list in order of best to worst (in your opinion)? Your review of the HS Blues makes them seem like they might be very good.


 
 I feel attractive to HS blues.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I am also very interested in HS Cadenza. Good price.


----------



## fairx

Speaking of Japanese music I always thought that they're carefully mastered and low quality iem / earbud / Earphone won't sound great. They only (mostly) shines with device that offer great resolution. Gotta take that into consideration when viewing Japanese reviews. Their usual prospective is slightly different. IMHO


----------



## Nachash

slim311 said:


> 5 bucks not bad, they go for ~20 on amazon with shipping, no red or black though, just blue, white, lime, purple


 
  
  


luedriver said:


> I thought it would be another "phiilps" like the she3800, but this is actually sold everywhere now, for about 20 AUD,
> 
> this is like when I had bought my philips she3200 from ebay for about half the retail price, only its wired backwards, left is right, etc
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, but I'm not so sure about the genuinity of those sold on ali, will buy a pair. Which color should I get?
  
 Also, which foams should I get? I don't want to order another pair of monks just for the EX pack, but I'm looking for something similar to those, both thick and simple ones


----------



## luedriver

nachash said:


> Yeah, but I'm not so sure about the genuinity of those sold on ali, will buy a pair. Which color should I get?
> 
> Also, which foams should I get? I don't want to order another pair of monks just for the EX pack, but I'm looking for something similar to those, both thick and simple ones


 
  
 I'm also not so sure about the genuinity of those sold on ali, either, I had a chance to buy some philips from ali but bought a pair (she3200) from ebay, still don't know if they were genuine, 
  
 as for foams, I use full foams (can't remember from which earbuds I got them) on the she2670, for me, it improved the sound over stock rubber, but I have had them for over 3 years now and only for a few months tried using full foams on them
  
 have been debating on buying hiegi foams for a while, but don't because mainly I don't like using them, only recently have used them on 2 earbuds philips and sony and sometimes I use the light foams on the monk+
  
 but I have no experience with these philips, thus cannot say anything on how they would sound with foam or not


----------



## AudioNewbi3

moon20160404 said:


> I feel attractive to HS blues.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 オーケストラ用のお勧めイヤホンがありますか？
 （久石譲さん、龍一坂本さん、よこかのんさん、みたいな作曲）


----------



## Willber

> Also, which foams should I get? I don't want to order another pair of monks just for the EX pack, but I'm looking for something similar to those, both thick and simple ones


 
  
 I bought some of these. They are good quality, smooth and comfortable, not too thick but quite dense with good damping:
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Earbuds-Eartip-8-pair-16-pcs-Imports-Ear-Cotton-Sponge-Earmuffs-Ear-Cotton-For-Earbuds-Earplug/32707547036.html


----------



## Nachash

luedriver said:


> I'm also not so sure about the genuinity of those sold on ali, either, I had a chance to buy some philips from ali but bought a pair (she3200) from ebay, still don't know if they were genuine,
> 
> as for foams, I use full foams (can't remember from which earbuds I got them) on the she2670, for me, it improved the sound over stock rubber, but I have had them for over 3 years now and only for a few months tried using full foams on them
> 
> ...


 
 I was looking for foams to use as a backup since I'm running out of the monk ones, ali is full of them but I don't know if they're monk good or ty32 bad foams


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> オーケストラ用のお勧めイヤホンがありますか？
> 
> （久石譲さん、龍一坂本さん、よこかのんさん、みたいな作曲）


 英語で書きます


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> 英語で書きます


 
 分かりました。じゃ改めて：
 Which of the earbuds do you recommend for orchestral pieces from the likes of Joe Hisaishi, Ryuuichi Sakamoto, Yoko Kannon.....etc.


----------



## Willber

nachash said:


> I was looking for foams to use as a backup since I'm running out of the monk ones, ali is full of them but I don't know if they're monk good or ty32 bad foams


 
  
 Did you see the link I posted?


----------



## Sempenyi

double post


----------



## Sempenyi

audionewbi3 said:


> 分かりました。じゃ改めて：
> Which of the earbuds do you recommend for orchestral pieces from the likes of Joe Hisaishi, Ryuuichi Sakamoto, Yoko Kannon.....etc.


 
 mojito


----------



## golov17

sempenyi said:


> mojito


and VX Pro


----------



## mochill

audionewbi3 said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > 英語で書きます
> ...


heavenly sounds concerto


----------



## BloodyPenguin

The *ELI Audio **Sabia V3* arrived at my door on Christmas Eve, I've been enjoying it ever since.

 I even got some rare gaming in with my daughter.  The larger bass and decent soundstage on this really made it fun.


 A full proper photo shoot is coming soon as well. 
  

  
 --


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Quote:


audionewbi3 said:


> 分かりました。じゃ改めて：
> Which of the earbuds do you recommend for orchestral pieces from the likes of Joe Hisaishi, Ryuuichi Sakamoto, Yoko Kannon.....etc.


 
  
  
 Any other Composer I should check out / You'd Recommend ?


----------



## Nachash

willber said:


> Did you see the link I posted?


 

 I do now, thanks


----------



## Townyj

bloodypenguin said:


> The *ELI Audio **Sabia V3* arrived at my door on Christmas Eve, I've been enjoying it ever since.
> 
> I even got some rare gaming in with my daughter.  The larger bass and decent soundstage on this really made it fun.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I had the Sabia V2 for like 15mins and passed them onto my GF.. How do the new V3 go up against the TP16 n such..??


----------



## Taggerung

After about 2 hours use, the left earpiece of my Shozy Stardust have become quieter than the right. It sounds subdued and muted. How's Penon's return service like?


----------



## golov17




----------



## teston

That claim from Manufacturer )
I wait for your review, sir golov17


----------



## AudioNewbi3

sempenyi said:


> mojito


 
 Already own them and thier little brothers the DIY Dual Drivers and PT15 hahahaha.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

taggerung said:


> After about 2 hours use, the left earpiece of my Shozy Stardust have become quieter than the right. It sounds subdued and muted. How's Penon's return service like?


 
 Very professional and good.
 Same thing happened with my Cygnus and another members Cygnus. 
 One side of the driver just died out and Penon sent it to Shozy to replace them.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> and VX Pro


 
  
 How are they? I heard some people get electric shock from the earbuds, is this true? As ClieOS's list mentioned that they are baby Mojito, do you think it is still worth it to buy them despite owning the Mojito?
  


mochill said:


> heavenly sounds concerto


 
 Is this thier flagship? I am very very interested in thier line-up. This is the 300Ohm yes?
  


midnightempest said:


> Any other Composer I should check out / You'd Recommend ?


 
 Hmm, on top of my head:
  
 Yoko Shimomura
 Nobuo Uematsu
 Acoustic Cafe (trio I believe)
 Hans Zimmer
 Masashi Hamauzu


----------



## golov17

VX pro indeed, respond to static electricity ⚡ , but they have a more thicker vocal than a Mojito and they are really stellar for some records


----------



## mochill

audionewbi3 said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > 英語で書きます
> ...


Flagship is called the king interlude


----------



## kurtextrem

taggerung said:


> After about 2 hours use, the left earpiece of my Shozy Stardust have become quieter than the right. It sounds subdued and muted. How's Penon's return service like?


 
 How can I test it?


----------



## vapman

kurtextrem said:


> How can I test it?


 
 Play a sine wave or something very simple and definitive such as that? Nothing with lots of dynamics, certainly.


----------



## tinkertailor

http://www.audiocheck.net/index.php


----------



## Fabi

golov17 said:


>


 
 Yeah, I remember that these earbuds are on Taobao for some time.
 But now on Ali, they are much more expensive... They have a 50% price increase 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I know there is fees but come on..
 I am not much attracted (yet), from pictures, the cable looks thin for durability.
 Material used seems very good. We don't know much about the sound, particularly PS600.
 What is funny is the title for PS600, it says it kills k3003 and ie800's ass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It better has a strong and durable plug then.


----------



## hex182

There used to be a small note describing the sound with most earbuds in the ranking list. Is that gone or a missing something?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Edit... nevermind.


----------



## golov17

hex182 said:


> There used to be a small note describing the sound with most earbuds in the ranking list. Is that gone or a missing something?


 due to the vagaries of some dissidents, he was removed, unfortunately..


----------



## kurtextrem

Well the right driver of my Stardust has a little bit of buzzing in certain tests. But they have the same loudness.


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> due to the vagaries of some dissidents, he was removed, unfortunately..




Oops. Were we too harsh?


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Oops. Were we too harsh?


maybe yes, maybe no.. But.. ☑


----------



## hex182

golov17 said:


> due to the vagaries of some dissidents, he was removed, unfortunately..



That's unfortunate, that was the most useful part of this thread.


----------



## golov17

hex182 said:


> That's unfortunate, that was the most useful part of this thread.


agree, so sad for neophytes


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> VX pro indeed, respond to static electricity ⚡ , but they have a more thicker vocal than a Mojito and they are really stellar for some records


 
  
 Thanks for the info Sir Golov. Thicker mids than the Mojito's is a good thing. I will look into these on Taobao. If you dont mind me asking again, how do they compare against the Senfers PT-15?

 Thanks! 


mochill said:


> Flagship is called the king interlude


 
  
 So the concerto is better than the interlude for the applications I've previously mentioned?

 Thank-you


----------



## golov17

Btw, 30℅ discount for first ten customers, go-go!


----------



## mochill

audionewbi3 said:


> Thanks for the info Sir Golov. Thicker mids than the Mojito's is a good thing. I will look into these on Taobao. If you dont mind me asking again, how do they compare against the Senfers PT-15?
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> ...


I know the concerto should be good for them ,never heard the king. But king might be better


----------



## mochill

Discount of 30% for first 10 buyers for puresounds


----------



## golov17

My **** crash


----------



## headjelly

How does the discount work? How do I get it? Also, I see two different sellers which have Puresounds, which one do you mean?
  
 Quote:


golov17 said:


> Btw, 30℅ discount for first ten customers, go-go!


----------



## golov17

seller Easy.
Buy now, other metods payment, cancel order, wait a price change, pay, wait arrived, done


----------



## JASru

golov17 said:


> My **** crash


 You crushed them or they broke on their own?


----------



## golov17

jasru said:


> You crushed them or they broke on their own?


my bad.. DIY mania lol


----------



## DrWhite

hello everyone, 
  
 https://tr.aliexpress.com/store/product/YMHFPJ-diy-MX500-Stereo-Earphone-Wired-300-OHM-HIFI-Headset-Slive-cable-Headphones-For-Samsung-iPhone/1396671_32656179214.html
  
 i found this earbud but not too much info about it,
 did anyone used this, any impressions ?


----------



## golov17

drwhite said:


> hello everyone,
> 
> https://tr.aliexpress.com/store/product/YMHFPJ-diy-MX500-Stereo-Earphone-Wired-300-OHM-HIFI-Headset-Slive-cable-Headphones-For-Samsung-iPhone/1396671_32656179214.html
> 
> ...


a lot russian users said good dark sound


----------



## rockingthearies

drwhite said:


> hello everyone,
> 
> https://tr.aliexpress.com/store/product/YMHFPJ-diy-MX500-Stereo-Earphone-Wired-300-OHM-HIFI-Headset-Slive-cable-Headphones-For-Samsung-iPhone/1396671_32656179214.html
> 
> ...



Havent heard it but judging from the picture there will be some kind of microphonics. But I think that can be ignored if you don't move around too much


----------



## Frederick Wang

golov17 said:


> my bad.. DIY mania lol


 
 LOL, I ruined 3 pairs of earbuds in 1 evening, E808+, SHE3800, Qian39 
 That was my tuition to pay for my first DIY lesson...


----------



## golov17

frederick wang said:


> LOL, I ruined 3 pairs of earbuds in 1 evening, E808+, SHE3800, Qian39
> That was my tuition to pay for my first DIY lesson...


 a common situation .. I have broken Zen1.0 and Asura1.0, lolz


----------



## JASru

golov17 said:


> a common situation .. I have broken Zen1.0 and Asura1.0, lolz


Daaamn. That is an expensive set of mistakes :/


----------



## Sempenyi

townyj said:


> I had the Sabia V2 for like 15mins and passed them onto my GF.. How do the new V3 go up against the TP16 n such..??


 

 sabia v2 would be the most V-shaped sounding while V3 is slightly more proper.
  


audionewbi3 said:


> How are they? I heard some people get electric shock from the earbuds, is this true? As ClieOS's list mentioned that they are baby Mojito, do you think it is still worth it to buy them despite owning the Mojito?
> 
> Is this thier flagship? I am very very interested in thier line-up. This is the 300Ohm yes?
> 
> ...


 
  
 their lineup is increasing fast. flagship is between cadenza concerto and king interlude.


golov17 said:


> a common situation .. I have broken Zen1.0 and Asura1.0, lolz


 

 zen OMG


----------



## golov17

Fortunately, my spare pair Zen in order


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> Fortunately, my spare pair Zen in order


 





 Cygnus cable????


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> :eek:  Cygnus cable????


search Penon


----------



## AudioNewbi3

frederick wang said:


> LOL, I ruined 3 pairs of earbuds in 1 evening, E808+, SHE3800, Qian39
> That was my tuition to pay for my first DIY lesson...


 
  
  


golov17 said:


> a common situation .. I have broken Zen1.0 and Asura1.0, lolz


 
  
  


jasru said:


> Daaamn. That is an expensive set of mistakes :/


 
  
 Lol, I also just recently ruined my discontinued 320OHM V1.......Replacement drivers comming from bug bros, but they are not the same as the 320Ohm V1, hope they still retain some of thier magic.


----------



## vapman

I too have a baggie of dead earbud parts


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> I too have a baggie of dead earbud parts


 
 I view dead parts as signs of progress hahaha


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> I too have a baggie of dead earbud parts


 

 "I see dead earbuds".


  
 --


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> "I see dead earbuds".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't cry anymore.. 
Broken **** now is new housing for AKG K326 drivers  So Good


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> Don't cry anymore..
> Broken **** now is new housing for AKG K326 drivers  So Good


 
  
 Looks sick!!!!! I still have my PT15 shell to put something else in.
  
 Also, I found my working E100 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 going to recable! maybe re-shell!


----------



## golov17

For housing **** suitable cover from Yuin and Shozy, btw, 
I used the front covers of pk2


----------



## awaysooner

golov17 said:


> For housing **** suitable cover from Yuin and Shozy, btw,
> I used the front covers of pk2


 
 Mine with Qian39.


----------



## tinkertailor

vapman said:


> Also, I found my working E100
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I was thinking to buy e100s, but it seems there is a lot of confusion about them out there. Anyone know a solid place to order them from? Do they hold up to Qian39 / Monk / K's Earphone 64ohm?


----------



## vapman

tinkertailor said:


> I was thinking to buy e100s, but it seems there is a lot of confusion about them out there. Anyone know a solid place to order them from? Do they hold up to Qian39 / Monk / K's Earphone 64ohm?


 
 Mine are very very old. Supposedly they have some of the wildest QC out there, and known good sets are far and few between. I don't even know if mine is one of the good ones or not. They are better than K's 64 to me but not as good as Q39 or Monk... but they are nice to have in a collection alongside those. The cable sucks.


----------



## kurtextrem

I think the right driver of my Stardust has developed a slight buzzing for real now. Hmm...


----------



## Taggerung

kurtextrem said:


> I think the right driver of my Stardust has developed a slight buzzing for real now. Hmm...



Already sent back my pair, but the left driver had bass distortion when EQed in addition to being quieter than the right.


----------



## pack21

Arrived qian39.

Still in competition with ShE3800, q39 being more in you face and clean & SHE3800 more recess and dark. I prefer SHE3800 for long relax audition and qian39 for excitement moments.


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman I don't even remember if the good one was mRice or Baldoor, or either. Been a long rime since I've given it a real listen.

Edit: Not my sound sig at all.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

kurtextrem said:


> I think the right driver of my Stardust has developed a slight buzzing for real now. Hmm...


 
  
  


taggerung said:


> Already sent back my pair, but the left driver had bass distortion when EQed in addition to being quieter than the right.


 
 *******, Shozy should step up thier QC.....thought it was just with the Cygnus, but given the asking price for the Stardust, this should not happen at all.


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> *******, Shozy should step up thier QC.....thought it was just with the Cygnus, but given the asking price for the Stardust, this should not happen at all.


 http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/4005#post_12512416


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/4005#post_12512416


 
 ? So we should fix the driver ourselves?


----------



## flamesofarctica

audionewbi3 said:


> ? So we should fix the driver ourselves?



I think you might be looking at the wrong post it takes a while for the link to take you to the right post sometimes (it does for me anyway). Have quoted the right post below, basically he was saying the same thing, shocking QC.



golov17 said:


> from myself I can only mention disgusting quality control in Shozy


----------



## golov17

Yep


----------



## AudioNewbi3

flamesofarctica said:


> I think you might be looking at the wrong post it takes a while for the link to take you to the right post sometimes (it does for me anyway). Have quoted the right post below, basically he was saying the same thing, shocking QC.


 
  
  


golov17 said:


> Yep


 
 Ah I see I see. Thanks for clearing that up.
 At this point, I would say that disgusting is an understatement, rather they could care less I think.


----------



## Ira Delphic

flamesofarctica said:


> audionewbi3 said:
> 
> 
> > ? So we should fix the driver ourselves?
> ...


 
  
 It's a shame about the Shozy quality control issues. That's why it's a good idea to buy from Penon. The one time I needed warranty service they did a good job.
 When my HP-650 arrives I'll be doing some serious testing!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Earbuds...


----------



## vapman

Anyone here rocking the new B320 from Blox yet? I am tempted, which is funny because I haven't even been tempted to buy any buds for almost a month and a half now. Maybe I'm..... satisfied with what I have?


----------



## luckyeights

So iv had my qian 39 for a little while now and now i cant enjoy my other earbuds now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  They sound too cold and irritating compared to the warm cozy and inviting qian 39.  I put my qian in and listen and listen and listen and before i know it holy crap the whole days gone by.  I put in my other buds and i listen maybe for an hour or 2 and im like ok im done now.   I am going to upgrade the cable on my pair at some point to hopefully bring out just a little extra high end and maybe tighten up the bass a little.  Not really needed mind you but might be nice.


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> Anyone here rocking the new B320 from Blox yet? I am tempted, which is funny because I haven't even been tempted to buy any buds for almost a month and a half now. Maybe I'm..... satisfied with what I have?


 

 I know at least one person, but he doesn't write in this thread too often.

 Perhaps you need time to just listen to the buds that you have?

 When you have bought one, two or three of the Cypherus buds (if Herry can find more NOS drivers for CAX black) you can consider your earbud quest to be complete!


----------



## luedriver

vapman said:


> Anyone here rocking the new B320 from Blox yet? I am tempted, which is funny because I haven't even been tempted to buy any buds for almost a month and a half now. Maybe I'm..... satisfied with what I have?


 
 I feel the same, yet was anticipating to get the newest blox and now that they're on sale, I don't feel the need as much, maybe it's because I feel the need of a decent amp more, I just know that I will regret not buying at least the b160, the price doesn't seem bad either, about 60 AUD...
  
 damn, I think I almost talked myself into considering to buy them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I think I am going to need to buy some more storage


----------



## golov17

With Christmas Greetings and all Good Wishes for the New Year!


----------



## vapman

hmmmm... which AKG are those? i might want em...


----------



## boblauer

golov17 said:


> With Christmas Greetings and all Good Wishes for the New Year!




Same to you Oleg


----------



## awaysooner

vapman said:


> hmmmm... which AKG are those? i might want em...


 
 K319. I have a pair, weak base but airy, not your cup of tea.


----------



## vapman

awaysooner said:


> K319. I have a pair, weak base but airy, not your cup of tea.


 
 How's soundstage and separation?


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> How's soundstage and separation?


very good for vocal lovers


----------



## kurtextrem

audionewbi3 said:


> Ah I see I see. Thanks for clearing that up.
> At this point, I would say that disgusting is an understatement, rather they could care less I think.


 
 Well, I don't know about their QC, but they've replied fast on facebook and offered me to send it back to repair (for free). I've swapped the Stardust around different devices now and the buzzing seems to be gone. I have no idea what black magic is happening.


----------



## Joy Boy

I just wanna share another great DIY earbud from local production house from Indonesia.
Dipios & diomnes by ABnormal Labs.
Both are great buds like Edimun or red demon. I think it could get to the list easily if clieos tried it.
Both has low impedance and easily driven directly from any source.


Diomnes has allround and well balance sound. Great impact and well extend treble


Dipios is my favourite. A very great bud and can compete with any earbud under $100. But unfortunately for now they must postpone the production due to lack of material for driver

They have another bud for their next line up. But it's a high impedance one (300ohm). And i haven't find good amp to drive the monster, Dietris.

I mean, i know your standard here. I won't share it if it's just a mediocre earbud. At least it should be on the same level as previous earbud that i recommend before (Edimun v3)

*always take it with a grain of a salt


----------



## AudioNewbi3

kurtextrem said:


> Well, I don't know about their QC, but they've replied fast on facebook and offered me to send it back to repair (for free). I've swapped the Stardust around different devices now and the buzzing seems to be gone. I have no idea what black magic is happening.


 
 I wouldn't count on the buzzing from being resolved completely, better just to send it back to get them replaced. 


joy boy said:


> I just wanna share another great DIY earbud from local production house from Indonesia.
> Dipios & diomnes by ABnormal Labs.
> Both are great buds like Edimun or red demon. I think it could get to the list easily if clieos tried it.
> Both has low impedance and easily driven directly from any source.
> ...


 
 If I remember reading correctly, the cable of these earbuds are also very special (ahem* Wagnus Cable?)


----------



## Danneq

Oh! Those two Indonesian buds look interesting! After the Cypherus earbuds together with Edimun V3 and Red De'mun, I'm a huge fan of Indonesian DIY earbud boutiques. Too bad about Dipios, though.


----------



## Willber

@Joy Boy
 You don't say how much they cost...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> Oh! Those two Indonesian buds look interesting! After the Cypherus earbuds together with Edimun V3 and Red De'mun, I'm a huge fan of Indonesian DIY earbud boutiques. Too bad about Dipios, though.


 
  
  


willber said:


> @Joy Boy
> You don't say how much they cost...


 
  
 You're welcome *wink*

https://www.facebook.com/abnormalsoundlabs/?fref=ts


----------



## Willber

> Originally Posted by *AudioNewbi3* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> You're welcome *wink*
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/abnormalsoundlabs/?fref=ts


 
  
 Thanks, so Diomnes is about £10.
 (I couldn't see a price for Dipios, perhaps because production is suspended.)


----------



## Fabi

Battle of earbuds!
 Special guests: Meier Quickstep amp (high current mode), IC VE Cardas , DX90m
  
 TY HP400s with thin foams, amp on 12V, low gain
 Sound: warm and balanced, mid bass hump, maybe too much, smooth treble, full midrange. Pairs better with analytical/ clinical sources (Hugo, iDSD).
  
 TY HP650, thin foams, amp on 14V, low gain
 Compared with 400s, more controlled on everything, less warm, more balanced, better bass texture, more controlled midrange, more refined and controlled treble with better extension, still smooth non-fatiguing, forward "on-stage" and rather intimate presentation.
 When you have 650, you don't need 400s but you need a more powerful amp to hear its best potential.
  
 K's 500, thin foams, amp on 13V, high gain
 Compared with TY 650, it has neutral/balanced sound, wide and airy and more detailed overall, deeper bass slam, midrange as good, better extended treble, maybe shouty at times
 Presentation is immersive but mid-distant, that's why I set amp on high gain to have a slightly closer presentation to my liking, first 20th rows in concert hall.
 With thin foams, it lacks a bit of body on lower midrange and treble sounds a bit painful at times, I tried multi-holed thick foams but I lost some airiness, so I replace the Cardas IC to SP OCC IC to warm the lower midrange and tame down treble, it works great.
  
 HP650 is smooth and forgiving, good for (very) long listening sessions, less with classical orchestra recordings cause of the forward presentation. But it makes less good recordings sound good.
 K's 500 is not that forgiving, it's pure bliss with good recordings, with bad recordings, you can notice sometimes what's wrong. Sounds great when you want to hear all details and texture of notes and feel the atmosphere on the stage, especially on live concerts and classical orchestra music. 
  
 For my taste, K's 500 and TY 650 complement each other very well on different purposes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 That's all for this year ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Happy new year bros ans sis!! I promise I will buy less earbuds


----------



## Danneq

fabi said:


> Happy new year bros ans sis!! I promise I will buy less earbuds :rolleyes:




Of course you will fail just like the rest of us! :tongue_smile:

Happy new year!


----------



## tinkertailor

willber said:


> Thanks, so Diomnes is about £10.
> (I couldn't see a price for Dipios, perhaps because production is suspended.)


 
 looks more like $60 USD to me (which im pretty sure is closer to 50 pounds)...based on their website anyways
 https://www.tokopedia.com/abnormal-labs


----------



## Willber

tinkertailor said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks, so Diomnes is about £10.
> ...


 
  
 You're right, my mistake.


----------



## vapman

The more I read about K's 500 the more I am glad I never bought one! Sounds like all the wrong characteristics of a bud for me. I'm tempted by the AKG for vocal listening, but I haven't had the urge to buy anything new in ridiculously long. If I don't post much more in here it's because I'm plenty happy with whatever I have...


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> The more I read about K's 500 the more I am glad I never bought one! Sounds like all the wrong characteristics of a bud for me. I'm tempted by the AKG for vocal listening, but I haven't had the urge to buy anything new in ridiculously long. If I don't post much more in here it's because I'm plenty happy with whatever I have...




My sentiments exactly. Until I saw those ABnormal earbuds and saw Marty Feldman before me...





They look really nice and that old hunting instinct got scent of a new prey...


Edit: also, for vocals QFred is number one. A bit expensive though but still leagues above all other midcentric earbuds I have owned...


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> My sentiments exactly. Until I saw those ABnormal earbuds and saw Marty Feldman before me...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm still leaning towards QFred over Campfred. Would have got the whole lineup by now if I could have afforded it... How is QFred bass relative to Edimun V3? similar depth/impact? I've been using basically just Edimun V3 Rhodium, Red De'mun, Cygnus, Qian39 and Monk+ with my Walnut these days. I also still like my Yinman 150 a lot but almost never find time for anything but those listed already I guess having heard other TOTL stuff like MX985 and certain Blox I know I love what I am hearing, but I know I need to hear how the Cypheruses stack up firsthand.


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> I'm still leaning towards QFred over Campfred. Would have got the whole lineup by now if I could have afforded it... How is QFred bass relative to Edimun V3? similar depth/impact? I've been using basically just Edimun V3 Rhodium, Red De'mun, Cygnus, Qian39 and Monk+ with my Walnut these days. I also still like my Yinman 150 a lot but almost never find time for anything but those listed already I guess having heard other TOTL stuff like MX985 and certain Blox I know I love what I am hearing, but I know I need to hear how the Cypheruses stack up firsthand.




QFred bass is closer to Monk+ or Cygnus than Edimun V3. It doesn't have a very deep impact but has got very nice texture (it feels like I'm talking about wines...). But it responds well to EQ. The main focus on QFred is the mids, but bass and treble isn't lacking in any way. CampFred on the other hand has got amazingly deep bass for a pair of earbuds, but not too dominating like sometimes on Edimun V3.

But now I want to know more about those ABnormal earbuds!


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> QFred bass is closer to Monk+ or Cygnus than Edimun V3. It doesn't have a very deep impact but has got very nice texture (it feels like I'm talking about wines...). But it responds well to EQ. The main focus on QFred is the mids, but bass and treble isn't lacking in any way. CampFred on the other hand has got amazingly deep bass for a pair of earbuds, but not too dominating like sometimes on Edimun V3.
> 
> But now I want to know more about those ABnormal earbuds!


 
 Thanks, I knew they weren't going to be a bassy signature by any means, but as long as it has excellent depth and good clarity I am okay.


----------



## Joy Boy

audionewbi3 said:


> I wouldn't count on the buzzing from being resolved completely, better just to send it back to get them replaced.
> If I remember reading correctly, the cable of these earbuds are also very special (ahem* Wagnus Cable?)



Yes. And they build their own driver too. So it can be out of stock anytime



danneq said:


> Oh! Those two Indonesian buds look interesting! After the Cypherus earbuds together with Edimun V3 and Red De'mun, I'm a huge fan of Indonesian DIY earbud boutiques. Too bad about Dipios, though.



That's why i recommended it. So many local builder and production house here. But only a few that fullfill this group standard



willber said:


> @Joy Boy
> 
> You don't say how much they cost...



Ah, i forgot. I'll ask them how it cost in dollar. I only know the price in IDR.
Maybe it's around $65-$75


----------



## Joy Boy

Here is specs and appearance of diomnes. My previous pict is the re-moded one. Less impact, more mid-centric


----------



## Tomasz2D

Happy new year!
 I wish you all in 2017 a lot of new earbuds discoveries and satisfactory purchases.
 I love you all - you positively crazy people 
 I am sorry I don't post so often here now but I still follow this thread all the time and realy enjoy it.
 I wish one day we could all meet together in person but taking into account we are from all over the world, I know this is rather unrealistic unfortunatelly.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

HAPPY NEW YEARS MATE!
 MAY THE NEW YEAR BRING MORE EARBUDS!


----------



## abhijollyguy

Which earbud is neutral yet musical with a slight lift in bass region with no peaks and dips from mids to higher treble?


----------



## Townyj

abhijollyguy said:


> Which earbud is neutral yet musical with a slight lift in bass region?


 
 Id say the Red Demun fits this quite well. Edimun V3 is up there aswell, V3 is available from Bengkel Macro again.


----------



## vapman

i would actually agree with the upper post. Red Demun is more of what you're asking for. I think Edimun V3 would be a little too V shaped for you, but you'd probably still enjoy it, just not as much as the Red De'mun.  The Red De'mun has consistently been one of my favorites, period, since I got it - dethroned the MX985 without much of a fight personally - and the Edimun kind of took the back seat for me.
  
 I am wondering though, I remember some people saying the Edimun V3 sound sig changes noticably depending on what kind of connector is used. Mine's rhodium. What's the difference with a gold plug? I have no idea what the gold plug one sounds like but the rhodium plug one is fabulous. Since I don't/can't EQ with my Walnut, I find myself using my Edimun a lot more than I ever did before. I think it had a bit less appeal when using it on my desktop setup with an already heavily tweaked EQ.


----------



## music4mhell

Happy new year guys..
May this year you and I spend less money on audio than in 2016....


----------



## abhijollyguy

Who sells Red Demun?


----------



## tinkertailor

abhijollyguy said:


> Who sells Red Demun?


 
 De'mun 
  
 https://www.facebook.com/pg/demuncustomcable/about/?ref=page_internal


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> I am wondering though, I remember some people saying the Edimun V3 sound sig changes noticably depending on what kind of connector is used. Mine's rhodium. What's the difference with a gold plug? I have no idea what the gold plug one sounds like but the rhodium plug one is fabulous. Since I don't/can't EQ with my Walnut, I find myself using my Edimun a lot more than I ever did before. I think it had a bit less appeal when using it on my desktop setup with an already heavily tweaked EQ.




My old pair of Edimun V3 had the rhodium plug while the pair I've got now has got the gold plug. I can only compare from memory, but the rhodium one had a harder bass slam and even more sparkly highs. Quite close to Zen 1. The one with gold plug has got slightly less bass slam and sparkly highs compared to what I recall from the rhodium plug pair. It's still a baby Zen 1 but slightly more balanced sounding. While I sort of miss the bass slam of my old pair of Edimun I actually think I prefer the gold plug version...


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> My old pair of Edimun V3 had the rhodium plug while the pair I've got now has got the gold plug. I can only compare from memory, but the rhodium one had a harder bass slam and even more sparkly highs. Quite close to Zen 1. The one with gold plug has got slightly less bass slam and sparkly highs compared to what I recall from the rhodium plug pair. It's still a baby Zen 1 but slightly more balanced sounding. While I sort of miss the bass slam of my old pair of Edimun I actually think I prefer the gold plug version...


 
 I would venture to say we both have the proper version of Edimun we should respectively own?
  
 I am basically waiting on people like you and other early adopters of Indo buds while they ere still gaining traction and making more a name for themselves around here. Plenty of great budding reviewers amongst the rest.


----------



## smith

Really interested in the Edimun v3..will they pair well with a iPhone ?


----------



## Townyj

smith said:


> Really interested in the Edimun v3..will they pair well with a iPhone ?




They are fairly easy to drive, so they would work with an iphone.


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> i would actually agree with the upper post. Red Demun is more of what you're asking for. I think Edimun V3 would be a little too V shaped for you, but you'd probably still enjoy it, just not as much as the Red De'mun.  The Red De'mun has consistently been one of my favorites, period, since I got it - dethroned the MX985 without much of a fight personally - and the Edimun kind of took the back seat for me.
> 
> I am wondering though, I remember some people saying the Edimun V3 sound sig changes noticably depending on what kind of connector is used. Mine's rhodium. What's the difference with a gold plug? I have no idea what the gold plug one sounds like but the rhodium plug one is fabulous. Since I don't/can't EQ with my Walnut, I find myself using my Edimun a lot more than I ever did before. I think it had a bit less appeal when using it on my desktop setup with an already heavily tweaked EQ.



Maybe i said it on previous post. I've tried nickle, gold, and rhodium connector for edimun series including v1 and v2.
I would say that the rhodium is the best one. Sparkly high and great impact, better clarity.
While the gold one is bassier and thicker mid but less sparkling treble.
Nickle one is make it down 1 level for every sector. But even though it's still has great sound


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> I would venture to say we both have the proper version of Edimun we should respectively own?
> 
> I am basically waiting on people like you and other early adopters of Indo buds while they ere still gaining traction and making more a name for themselves around here. Plenty of great budding reviewers amongst the rest.


 
  
 Yeah, that's probably true. Now my interest has been awakened by ABnormal so Shozy Stardust will have to wait a bit longer.

 By the way, I just remembered Walnut and will probably buy one in the coming weeks. I looked through the Walnut thread and it had exploded. Just a short while ago it was 3 pages and now when I checked it again it was 55+ pages!
 The CAX black seem to beg for better sources (and especially something else than MP3). No other earbuds I own or have owned have seemed to beg for better sources and/or bitrate files in the same way, so wav on Walnut might suit the CAX black quite nicely.
  


joy boy said:


> Maybe i said it on previous post. I've tried nickle, gold, and rhodium connector for edimun series including v1 and v2.
> I would say that the rhodium is the best one. Sparkly high and great impact, better clarity.
> While the gold one is bassier and thicker mid but less sparkling treble.
> Nickle one is make it down 1 level for every sector. But even though it's still has great sound


 

 I have not compared directly, but from what I remember of my rhodium Edimun V3 bass was a bit deeper on those. I do not remember how much bass there was but I do remember it was almost as deep and hard hitting as Zen 1. Gold Edimun V3 does feel like it's a step down in bass depth compared to rhodium, but I'm just going from memory...


----------



## Fabi

You're absolutely right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 haha, maybe less earbuds but more expensive ones..
  
 Quote:


danneq said:


> Of course you will fail just like the rest of us!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
  
 Well, well, I've just chatted with Hersang from ABnormal Sound, a serious and kind dude.
 # Being Normal is boring. we are ABnormal !! # 
 I like that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Maybe other members have contacted him too.
  
 To sum up
 Dietris, 300ohm, white (darker sound) or black version, $40
 Dipios, discontinued, for metalheads.
 Diomnes, allrounder 32ohm, standard $70 with Cardas cable, v1 $100 with Hybrid OCC Litz, v2 $165 with more wires than v1, v2 balanced $180 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Of course, shipping is with EMS from Indonesia.
 I find it very interesting. I'll surely keep it on my list.
  
 Btw, this year, I'm also tempted to do some Blox injection 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Argh too many choices, have to sell a few things first.


----------



## KcLKcL

I really love my TY Hi-Z 32 v2

And now you guys are saying how good a Qian39 is, and even better than the Hi-Z 32

I decided to get one. Can't wait for it to arrive.


----------



## Willber

kclkcl said:


> I really love my TY Hi-Z 32 v2
> 
> And now you guys are saying how good a Qian39 is, and even better than the Hi-Z 32
> 
> I decided to get one. Can't wait for it to arrive.


 
  
 Welcome to the forum, you've made a couple of good choices but I recommend also the Sony E808+ for about $4. Give it time to burn in and it's very impressive (and very comfortable). Also, take a look at this thread:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds


----------



## Danneq

fabi said:


> Well, well, I've just chatted with Hersang from ABnormal Sound, a serious and kind dude.
> # Being Normal is boring. we are ABnormal !! #
> I like that
> 
> ...


 
  
 Haha! I have also been chatting to him on Facebook!

 Diomnes Lv2 looks interesting for me. But first I have to sell some stuff. Anyone wants to buy my Erqu earbuds? $50 with shipping included for EQ100 & EQ300! Both are great, but I want to focus more on TOTL earbuds.

 I'll wait until Blox release their new flagship...
  


kclkcl said:


> I really love my TY Hi-Z 32 v2
> 
> And now you guys are saying how good a Qian39 is, and even better than the Hi-Z 32
> 
> I decided to get one. Can't wait for it to arrive.


 

 I have been off from work for 10 days and I have taken some time to burn in some of my earbuds. Right now I am giving my TY32 V1 and Qian39 some time on my Sansa Clip+ and I notice that TY32 v1 has got much more depth in the soundstage. Qian39 feels quite flat in comparison. But it is still very energetic and fun to listen to.


----------



## Willber

> Quote:
> 
> 
> kclkcl said:
> ...


 
  
 Yep, I agree, but unfortunately the TY32 v1 is no longer available and the v2 isn't as good IMO. The E808+ comes close to the v1, though. In fact it is fairly similar all round and I've found my EQ profiles are very similar for both.


----------



## Fabi

danneq said:


> Haha! I have also been chatting to him on Facebook!
> 
> Diomnes Lv2 looks interesting for me. But first I have to sell some stuff. Anyone wants to buy my Erqu earbuds? $50 with shipping included for EQ100 & EQ300! Both are great, but I want to focus more on TOTL earbuds.


 
  
 Haha I guess he was very busy, copy-pasting all the info to us 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 Same situation, interested in Diomnes Lv2 but need to sell things before even starting to think about it..
  
  


danneq said:


> Right now I am giving my TY32 V1 and Qian39 some time on my Sansa Clip+ and I notice that TY32 v1 has got much more depth in the soundstage. Qian39 feels quite flat in comparison. But it is still very energetic and fun to listen to.


 
  
 Same impression but with Qian25, it feels slightly better after 150hrs of burn-in Lol.
 Btw, if Qian39 is warmer than Qian25, I don't know if I would like it.


----------



## KcLKcL

willber said:


> Welcome to the forum, you've made a couple of good choices but I recommend also the Sony E808+ for about $4. Give it time to burn in and it's very impressive (and very comfortable). Also, take a look at this thread:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds




Thank you for the warm welcome. I'll check the Sony. Actually, I accidentally found the HI-Z while auditioning it in a local audio store. I haven't been using earbuds since like, maybe 2008 and I was mind blown when I heard it 



danneq said:


> I have been off from work for 10 days and I have taken some time to burn in some of my earbuds. Right now I am giving my TY32 V1 and Qian39 some time on my Sansa Clip+ and I notice that TY32 v1 has got much more depth in the soundstage. Qian39 feels quite flat in comparison. But it is still very energetic and fun to listen to.




Mine's a TY HI-Z v2, which everyone here said it's worse than the v1 (just like how everyone preferred the old Monk over the Monk+ lol). Hopefully the Qian39 can bring something better than the HI-Z v2.


----------



## pfloyd

Does anyone know how the Sony e808+ compares to the e828. I found my 828 at thrift store for a quarter and they are the best buds in my inventory but nos prices are high, wonder how the 808 compares as the housing looks similar. Really impressed at the 828s extension at both ends without midrange suck- out, it's excellent soundstage and back wave resonance control as well as high sensitivity, man they can get loud, unlike the monks and monk + whose housings create a tube port resonance that is beguiling at first but gets fatiguing. My 828s were made in the Philippines while I think the new Sony stuff is made in China, likely affecting final product. I have some Sony Mdr-v150 on-ear monitors made in Philippines that sound pretty good but heard reports that the new China stock does not sound as good.


----------



## Willber

pfloyd said:


> Does anyone know how the Sony e808+ compares to the e828. I found my 828 at thrift store for a quarter and they are the best buds in my inventory but nos prices are high, wonder how the 808 compares as the housing looks similar. Really impressed at the 828s extension at both ends without midrange suck- out, it's excellent soundstage and back wave resonance control as well as high sensitivity, man they can get loud, unlike the monks and monk + whose housings create a tube port resonance that is beguiling at first but gets fatiguing. My 828s were made in the Philippines while I think the new Sony stuff is made in China, likely affecting final product. I have some Sony Mdr-v150 on-ear monitors made in Philippines that sound pretty good but heard reports that the new China stock does not sound as good.


 
  
 I haven't heard the E828 so can't compare them but my E808+ are better than my Monk+, SHE3800, TY32 v2, AG RX-1, 1More E320 and Qian39, equal (and similar) to my TY32 v1 and almost as good as my TY150. This is after they'd had plenty of time to burn in through regular use. Also, they are more comfortable than all the others. Anyway, for $4 you haven't much to lose.


----------



## pfloyd

willber said:


> I haven't heard the E828 so can't compare them but my E808+ are better than my Monk+, SHE3800, TY32 v2, AG RX-1, 1More E320 and Qian39, equal (and similar) to my TY32 v1 and almost as good as my TY150. This is after they'd had plenty of time to burn in through regular use. Also, they are more comfortable than all the others. Anyway, for $4 you haven't much to lose.


I don't trade on aliexpress. Is there a stateside source?


----------



## Willber

pfloyd said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't heard the E828 so can't compare them but my E808+ are better than my Monk+, SHE3800, TY32 v2, AG RX-1, 1More E320 and Qian39, equal (and similar) to my TY32 v1 and almost as good as my TY150. This is after they'd had plenty of time to burn in through regular use. Also, they are more comfortable than all the others. Anyway, for $4 you haven't much to lose.
> ...


 
  
 Don't know, I'm in the UK and use AE a lot with no problems.


----------



## pfloyd

willber said:


> I haven't heard the E828 so can't compare them but my E808+ are better than my Monk+, SHE3800, TY32 v2, AG RX-1, 1More E320 and Qian39, equal (and similar) to my TY32 v1 and almost as good as my TY150. This is after they'd had plenty of time to burn in through regular use. Also, they are more comfortable than all the others. Anyway, for $4 you haven't much to lose.


I'm not surprised that you hold the 808s in high regard and wonder if the 828 is even better.


----------



## Willber

pfloyd said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't heard the E828 so can't compare them but my E808+ are better than my Monk+, SHE3800, TY32 v2, AG RX-1, 1More E320 and Qian39, equal (and similar) to my TY32 v1 and almost as good as my TY150. This is after they'd had plenty of time to burn in through regular use. Also, they are more comfortable than all the others. Anyway, for $4 you haven't much to lose.
> ...


 
  
 They should be, they are about 15x the price on Amazon! But much of it is down to personal preference.


----------



## pfloyd

willber said:


> They should be, they are about 15x the price on Amazon! But much of it is down to personal preference.


Supply and demand, 10 years ago you could get them for 10 bucks and thrift store finds are still out there. And I still wonder if Philippines vs China production has sonic impact.


----------



## vapman

willber said:


> They should be, they are about 15x the price on Amazon! But much of it is down to personal preference.


 
 I have E828 (originals) and E808+. E808+ gets 95% of my listening time over the E828. The E828 has an unmatchable sweetness and cohesiveness not many other, even Sony buds have. If only it wasn't bass anemic, it would be a killer. But, if you sacrifice some midrange presence for bass and treble energy, you would be happy with the 808+


----------



## Willber

> But, if you sacrifice some midrange presence for bass and treble energy, you would be happy with the 808+


 
  
 Which I am, and have two more on the way as spares.


----------



## KcLKcL

Is the Sony E808 the same as E808+?

I found it in the local online store for less than $3. I still can cancel the Qian39 should I get them instead?

Here is the E808 that I found in the local store https://www.tokopedia.com/adzkhancell/ear-phone-sony-mdr-e808-murah-bagus


----------



## purplesun

kclkcl said:


> Is the Sony E808 the same as E808+?


 
 No.
 Visually, E808+ has 5-of-diamond shaped holes in the front mesh, E808+ printed on the splitter, and 8 fake oval slots on the back of shell.
 Sonically, E808+ has better bass response.


----------



## tinkertailor

Guys I just ordered the 808+, Ty-Hp32 v2 as well as these MX500 housed buds:
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIFI-In-ear-Earphone-32Ohm-DIY-Heavy-Bass-Sound-Music-Earphones-Earbuds-DJ-Earphones-Universal-Auriculares/32742453946.html
  
 and these noise cancelling she3800 ones:
  
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HONGBIAO-SM-M9-In-ear-Earphones-Original-3-5mm-Super-Clear-Bass-Metal-fone-de-ouvido/32782771890.html
  
 It will be interesting to compare all these to k's earphone 64 ohm, monk+, and qian39.


----------



## To.M

We are proud of you! You started 2017 in style!


----------



## Willber

tinkertailor said:


> Guys I just ordered the 808+, Ty-Hp32 v2 as well as these MX500 housed buds:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIFI-In-ear-Earphone-32Ohm-DIY-Heavy-Bass-Sound-Music-Earphones-Earbuds-DJ-Earphones-Universal-Auriculares/32742453946.html
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'll say it again, give the E808+ time and you will be rewarded.
  
 Interesting looking cable on those no-name ones...


----------



## Joy Boy

danneq said:


> Yeah, that's probably true. Now my interest has been awakened by ABnormal so Shozy Stardust will have to wait a bit longer.
> 
> 
> I have not compared directly, but from what I remember of my rhodium Edimun V3 bass was a bit deeper on those. I do not remember how much bass there was but I do remember it was almost as deep and hard hitting as Zen 1. Gold Edimun V3 does feel like it's a step down in bass depth compared to rhodium, but I'm just going from memory...



Same here. I also just going from memory. Maybe because of the brand. I compare it with cheap paillics gold connector vs more more expensive oyaide rhodium. I've ever compared paillic gold and oyaide gold, although both connector is gold plated, the sound is different



fabi said:


> Well, well, I've just chatted with Hersang from ABnormal Sound, a serious and kind dude.
> # Being Normal is boring. we are ABnormal !! #
> I like that
> Maybe other members have contacted him too.
> ...



Wow. I think the cardas one is great enough. The one that i got for demo unit is diomnes with occ litz and balance connector. 
For dipios, they only made 2 of it. But from what in heard, they still searching the "out of stock" component or at least resembling it


----------



## purplesun

willber said:


> I'll say it again, give the E808+ time and you will be rewarded.


 
  
 Mine's about 2 months ahead of yours in daily use. After Xmas, I had been using it with E10k dac listening to Chesky 30th Anniversary Collection on 24/96 flac. The reproduction was truly impressive and completely unexpected. This $2 earbud ages like fine wine! But for earbud enthusiasts/collectors here (which I am not), it will very hard to get that sort of earbud monogamy from them. For the collectors, they would have to put in a ridiculous burn-in period to get the E808+ into a more balanced and natural sound.


----------



## Willber

purplesun said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > I'll say it again, give the E808+ time and you will be rewarded.
> ...


 

 Fair point, I have had mine about a month and they continue to get better but that too is with extended daily use.


----------



## Sempenyi

joy boy said:


> Same here. I also just going from memory. Maybe because of the brand. I compare it with cheap paillics gold connector vs more more expensive oyaide rhodium. I've ever compared paillic gold and oyaide gold, although both connector is gold plated, the sound is different
> Wow. I think the cardas one is great enough. The one that i got for demo unit is diomnes with occ litz and balance connector.
> For dipios, the only made 2 of it. But from what in heard, they still searching the "ot of stock" component or at least resembling it




Dipios is some fairy tale.


----------



## macky112

Hi all

I read a lot about the monk+ and TY 32 in other threads

Now, I only have experience with budget IEM (monoprice 8320, piston 3, kz zs3) and apple earbuds

What can I expect from the monk+ and TY 32 comparing to my budget iems?

TIA


----------



## Sempenyi

macky112 said:


> Hi all
> 
> I read a lot about the monk+ and TY 32 in other threads
> 
> ...




Soundstage ? Imaging ?


----------



## PureSounds-cn

wow。too many people


----------



## golov17

puresounds-cn said:


> wow。too many people


welcome on the board


----------



## DavidRrofel

puresounds-cn said:


> wow。too many people


 
 At the end of the hall there is still room for more people...


----------



## Joy Boy

puresounds-cn said:


> wow。too many people



More is better. There's so many earbud variant now. The more earbud enthusiast born everyday


----------



## vapman

Anyone intersested in BORROWING my spare Earbuds not getting use. Would like to pay it forward. Of course I expect them back at some point unless you absolutely can't part with them. (if this is the case let me know asap so i can plan accordingly)
 If you borrow one and fall in live with it that's a different story. All below buds work 100%
  
 PM ME DON'T REPLY HERE!!!!!!!!!
  
 All models and variatoins of all TY models - 320 or 650 ohm
 Musicalmaker Green Ting
 DIY Sony MDR-E888 (shell needs re-sealing)
  
 for BORROW! not for SALE! but if you are VERY convincing it could be an "extended borrow:"


----------



## fairx

macky112 said:


> Hi all
> 
> I read a lot about the monk+ and TY 32 in other threads
> 
> ...



I only have piston 3 and Kz ate but I'd say they're (monk / ty) probably a shock if you came from iem. (relative) Huge sound and depth. Lacks bass (again, relative) but never felt muddy. The newly discovered transparency can be addictive and many never back to iem again under 100-200 bucks.

I'd say most budget earbud here are comparable to piston 2 legend but much much more open sounding.


----------



## vapman

macky112 said:


> Hi all
> 
> I read a lot about the monk+ and TY 32 in other threads
> 
> ...


 
 Your IEMs will either only be used when isolation is necessary or last minute gifts to family. =)


----------



## neocore

Hello All,
  
 i m new to Head-Fi (infact this is my first post here).
  
 I have been reading through headfi for a long time now. I have been to earbuds for some time now and i own the following earbuds.
  
 VE Monk plus
 Benjie earbuds
 Auglamour Rx-1
  
 My music preference is classical. I do prefer bass but will like to have good mids too, prefer a w kind of sound curve.
  
 i wanted to know if the following earbuds are good to my collection,
  
 Qian 25 (has rave reviews in a russian review site), is qian 25 better than qian 39.
 k's 300 ohm (https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-K-s-Earphone-K300-300ohm-High-Impedance-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud-300ohms-Earbud-Flat-Head/1825606_32783590564.html) - never saw any discussions on this thread about this bud. is it any good given its price.
  
 Thanks,
 neocore


----------



## Frederick Wang

I recently bought this earbud: 
 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.13Nx2b&id=528904724457&_u=211h8o1v39e9
 MX5000 or MX5K, more detailed and transparent than K's 300 ohm, more natural presentation. Sound signature is warm. Overall, it reminds me of a 300 ohm earbud i bought from bug guy 1.5 years ago, but only 1/3 the price. Very good value.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

frederick wang said:


> I recently bought this earbud:
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.13Nx2b&id=528904724457&_u=211h8o1v39e9
> MX5000 or MX5K, more detailed and transparent than K's 300 ohm, more natural presentation. Sound signature is warm. Overall, it reminds me of a 300 ohm earbud i bought from bug guy 1.5 years ago, but only 1/3 the price. Very good value.


 
 bet the driver is from bugbros too hahaha. But excellent find! Thanks for sharing


----------



## neocore

frederick wang said:


> I recently bought this earbud:
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.13Nx2b&id=528904724457&_u=211h8o1v39e9
> MX5000 or MX5K, more detailed and transparent than K's 300 ohm, more natural presentation. Sound signature is warm. Overall, it reminds me of a 300 ohm earbud i bought from bug guy 1.5 years ago, but only 1/3 the price. Very good value.


 
 Thanks for the reply, can i find it in ali? i haven't bought anything from tabao yet, not sure even if they ship to my location(India).


----------



## Frederick Wang

audionewbi3 said:


> bet the driver is from bugbros too hahaha. But excellent find! Thanks for sharing


 
 According to the seller the drivers are procured from Germany, the same source as Zen 2.0, but tuned towards the low end. I don't own Zen 2.0, so cannot attest to this.


----------



## Frederick Wang

neocore said:


> Thanks for the reply, can i find it in ali? i haven't bought anything from tabao yet, not sure even if they ship to my location(India).


 
 Unfortunately they don't sell it on Ali yet. 
 K's 300 ohm is not my cup of tea, though.


----------



## kurtextrem

frederick wang said:


> According to the seller the drivers are procured from Germany, the same source as Zen 2.0, but tuned towards the low end. I don't own Zen 2.0, so cannot attest to this.


 
 damn, why does it have to go from Germany to China and then back to Germany (= to me?) 
 But that sounds really interesting.


----------



## chaiyuta

How about sound signature of K's Earphone 300Ohm?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

frederick wang said:


> According to the seller the drivers are procured from Germany, the same source as Zen 2.0, but tuned towards the low end. I don't own Zen 2.0, so cannot attest to this.


 
 Yes, that is what I've read from the description. But it's Taobao and we all know some of them would be "牛逼" or ”吹水“, i.e. bluffing. I remember @ClieOS once mentioned that the whole German thing is just a sales pitch to lure customers into buying their products as some individuals perceive German to be associated with high quality (no doubt it is true).

 But at the end of the day, as long as one enjoys what one has received, I see no problem. (Ahem Rose Mojito sudposedly using German resin for their products.)


----------



## Frederick Wang

audionewbi3 said:


> Yes, that is what I've read from the description. But it's Taobao and we all know some of them would be "牛逼" or ”吹水“, i.e. bluffing. I remember @ClieOS once mentioned that the whole German thing is just a sales pitch to lure customers into buying their products as some individuals perceive German to be associated with high quality (no doubt it is true).
> 
> But at the end of the day, as long as one enjoys what one has received, I see no problem. (Ahem Rose Mojito sudposedly using German resin for their products.)


 
 lol, that's true.


----------



## Frederick Wang

chaiyuta said:


> How about sound signature of K's Earphone 300Ohm?


 
 Very well layered soundstage, imaging is big, not suitable for classical music.
 Not as warm as MX5K, not as bright as PT15, clarity is poor in comparison to either, about the original Monk level. Doesn't make much sense to me. Plan to sell it.


----------



## neocore

Thanks for sharing your impressions on K 300 ohms earbuds, so i guess i will pass this up.
  
 can anyone share impressions on qian39 and qian 25?(their comparison with monks and rx-1)


----------



## Tomasz2D

From time to time there are some inquiries for DAC/amps recommendations in this thread, so I would like to write few words about xDuoo XD-05 DAC/amp in the view of working with earbuds.
  
 I ordered xDuoo durng 11.11. AE sale for $ 142 and I really like the sound. In fact I was very surprised because I didn't expect to be that good. Soundwise I will easly put it among $500 level devices that I own including Grace m9xx, Schiit Jotunheim, Chord Mojo and iFi DAC2/iCAN. So the HI-FI SOUND is there.
  
 On the other hand the bulid quality is a bit sloppy. There is "Fiiter" label instead of "Filter" on the housing, the switches are flimsy and there is some channel inbalance at very low volume but at gain level 1 there is no much background noise even at max volume.
  
 So far I checked it with some of my earbuds and I found that it pairs exceptionally well with Moondrop VX Pro. And yes it has more then enough steam to drive all high impendence earbuds.


----------



## silverfishla

Monk + balanced cable is very good. Got a pair and the extra power and balanced really make them sound big. Got a balanced Fiio cable for my Rose Mojitos too and that made those buds sound huge! Using a Pono (like Wild Lee in his facebook post). Sounds really good!


----------



## Townyj

Ok... Im slowly coming to the conclusion that earbuds are the way to go for me. Being able to freely move about the house with them is winning me over, recently bought a pair of HD600's and they are getting little use which is disappointing. Not going to jump to selling them just yet, but freeing up the money for more buds would be handy haha 
  
 Is there anymore info on the Blox B160, curiosity is getting the better of me and im holding my trigger finger off the purchase button.


----------



## macky112

vapman said:


> Anyone intersested in BORROWING my spare Earbuds not getting use. Would like to pay it forward. Of course I expect them back at some point unless you absolutely can't part with them. (if this is the case let me know asap so i can plan accordingly)
> If you borrow one and fall in live with it that's a different story. All below buds work 100%
> 
> PM ME DON'T REPLY HERE!!!!!!!!!
> ...




For the TY models, provided given enough power, does the 650 ohm model sound better than the 32 ohm model (similar to headphones?)


----------



## kartik7405

macky112 said:


> For the TY models, provided given enough power, does the 650 ohm model sound better than the 32 ohm model (similar to headphones?)


 
 Ty 650 miles better than 32 ohm model.if amped properly;Laidback relaxed sound with very sweet mids and smooth highs.Bass also way deeper.Not sound congested like most buds ;very much airy like an openback headphone.Not at all aggressive sound even for bad mastered songs.
  
 i feel there is no competitor with such tonality.if you willing to spend more get a VE black zen 2  "or" cypherus Camfred.


----------



## vapman

kartik7405 said:


> Ty 650 miles better than 32 ohm model.if amped properly;Laidback relaxed sound with very sweet mids and smooth highs.Bass also way deeper.Not sound congested like most buds ;very much airy like an openback headphone.Not at all aggressive sound even for bad mastered songs.
> 
> i feel there is no competitor with such tonality.if you willing to spend more get a VE black zen 2  "or" cypherus Camfred.


 
 I agree with this 100%. TY 650 is one of my favorite earbuds. I always use it for maximum detail, clarity and precision. It is not a fun bud but I think most of the rest of the TY lineup is complete garbage.


----------



## luedriver

was wondering about the monk + balanced, does it sound better because it has an extra wire of ground for each earbud or is it because monk+ upscales well with high-end daps that use balanced output?
  
 if someone were to use the balanced version with an adapter, would it sound better than a normal monk+ with the same source?


----------



## fairx

Half hour queuing at local post office because the mailman can reach me before, I finally get my qian 39.

After 4 hour listening I can safely say I found my replacement for best budget earbud. I'd say it's better than ty32 and even reaching tomahawk level. Even better because of small shell and fit perfectly. 

However it it's not pairing well with my desktop as much as my ty 320. However with my old galaxy s with Wolfson audio it's perfect. 

Initial impressions, qian39 reminds me of Sennheiser sound. Tight control and order but smooth with slight analytical sound. Vocal is not laid back nor it's forward. Layering, separation soundstage and imaging is excellent considering its price. Even when applying bass boost it maintains its control. Like there's a invisible barrier that separate the bass from spilling to mids. It's awesome. Sense of space and depth also very very good. 

Worth way above the price.


----------



## Willber

fairx said:


> Half hour queuing at local post office because the mailman can reach me before, I finally get my qian 39.
> 
> After 4 hour listening I can safely say I found my replacement for best budget earbud. I'd say it's better than ty32 and even reaching tomahawk level. Even better because of small shell and fit perfectly.
> 
> ...


 

 I agree.
 Have you tried the E808+? Equally (or more) impressive IMO.


----------



## fairx

willber said:


> I agree.
> Have you tried the E808+? Equally (or more) impressive IMO.


hmm I might as well get one if it's even better than qian39. Will dig the source to buy.


----------



## Willber

fairx said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > I agree.
> ...


 
  
 Here you are:
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-MDR-E808-Bass-Noise-Isolating-Earphone-3-5MM-High-Qaulity-Flat-Head-Earbuds-In-Ear/32742308384.html


----------



## vapman

Anyone remember back when we first brought up the E808+ and there was some question as to whether some sounded good and some sounded mediocre? I now have 4 sets and they all sound identical to my ears. So I think they are a safe bet. I personally prefer them to the SHE3800
  
 I haven't used mine in a little while though, I will probably try to dig them up and take them out today.


----------



## Willber

vapman said:


> Anyone remember back when we first brought up the E808+ and there was some question as to whether some sounded good and some sounded mediocre? I now have 4 sets and they all sound identical to my ears. So I think they are a safe bet.


 
  
 Good news, I have two more on the way.


----------



## vapman

Purplesun bought like a dozen sets if I am not mistaken though. He is the one that told me there were one or two duds in that lot. That dude has a way of showing up in this thread at the most opportune times though. Kudos to him for introducing me to the E808+ which I then bought some backups and _then_ bragged about here.


----------



## fairx

willber said:


> Here you are:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-MDR-E808-Bass-Noise-Isolating-Earphone-3-5MM-High-Qaulity-Flat-Head-Earbuds-In-Ear/32742308384.html


ordered one. Demm. The poison is sink in fast lol


----------



## vapman

luedriver said:


> was wondering about the monk + balanced, does it sound better because it has an extra wire of ground for each earbud or is it because monk+ upscales well with high-end daps that use balanced output?
> 
> if someone were to use the balanced version with an adapter, would it sound better than a normal monk+ with the same source?


 
 I didn't see this post somehow. I tried a balanced monk with the adapter and it sounded no different to me. However, trying a balanced Asura 2.0 with an adapter is just slightly better than a plain unbalanced Asura 2.0. Why I own a balanced Monk and Asura 2.0, i have no idea, I don't have any balanced gear... so I should either get a balanced player or more likely get rid of these two 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I do have one balanced Monk with a Zen shell on one side and a Monk shell on the other side and I'll be keeping that just because it's unique...


----------



## golov17

fairx said:


> Half hour queuing at local post office because the mailman can reach me before, I finally get my qian 39.
> 
> After 4 hour listening I can safely say I found my replacement for best budget earbud. I'd say it's better than ty32 and even reaching tomahawk level. Even better because of small shell and fit perfectly.
> 
> ...


you try Qian25?


----------



## fairx

golov17 said:


> you try Qian25?


not yet. Maybe in the future.


----------



## golov17

fairx said:


> not yet. Maybe in the future.


also good cheap buds, like seahf32 too..


----------



## golov17

puresounds-cn said:


> https://m.aliexpress.com/s/item/32787051608.html
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/32784778694/32784778694.html
> 
> thx bro ，as far as i know ,clieOs Got a ps100-500 classical ver.
> what I am interested in is ，are there orther friends who slso have ps100-500 or ps100-600？


waiting


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> also good cheap buds, like seahf32 too..


 
 Seahf 32 sound signature


----------



## Majin

Since i like the monk+ over the E808+ what would be an alternative earbud i can try?


----------



## macky112

i am about to pull the trigger on a Qian 39 per recommendations on this thread.
  
 does this look like a legit item?
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/qian-39-High-Quality-Headphones-Earbud-Headphones-Headset-Dynamic-Earphones-for-popular-female-pop-music-light/1112149_32346706750.html


----------



## vapman

macky112 said:


> i am about to pull the trigger on a Qian 39 per recommendations on this thread.
> 
> does this look like a legit item?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/qian-39-High-Quality-Headphones-Earbud-Headphones-Headset-Dynamic-Earphones-for-popular-female-pop-music-light/1112149_32346706750.html


 
 Looks like they have sold almost 150 of them and get good reviews. Probably safe.


----------



## Willber

majin said:


> Since i like the monk+ over the E808+ what would be an alternative earbud i can try?


 

 How long have you had the E808+? It improves a lot after many hours of burn-in or usage.


----------



## chinmie

is the seahf 32 sounded different from the Ty Hi Z 32?


----------



## vapman

chinmie said:


> is the seahf 32 sounded different from the Ty Hi Z 32?


 
 My post with the razor picture was more truth than joking. I don't have very much good to say about TY 32 but it is better than Seahf 32 unless you CRAVE treble.


----------



## Joy Boy

townyj said:


> Ok... Im slowly coming to the conclusion that earbuds are the way to go for me. Being able to freely move about the house with them is winning me over, recently bought a pair of HD600's and they are getting little use which is disappointing. Not going to jump to selling them just yet, but freeing up the money for more buds would be handy haha
> 
> Is there anymore info on the Blox B160, curiosity is getting the better of me and im holding my trigger finger off the purchase button.



I own it for a week now. 50hrs burning time. The sound is on the thin side. Good impact, airy, well extend treble. Better than Be3.But in think it doesn't out-perform BE7. And what i want is something greater than the las blox bud that i had.
Maybe i'll wait for the next flagship


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> Purplesun bought like a dozen sets if I am not mistaken though.


 
 Bought 10 from 2 sellers in taobao. 2 had harsh-sounding drivers (I suspect was over-driven during burn-in) & 1 had flipped L/R channel & improperly-placed rear vent foam (easy fixes). Understandably, for the ridiculous taobao prices I paid, "you pays for what you get".
  
 Now that son, back for xmas, has commandeered almost all the good ones - it's back to taobao for more earbud QC lottery fun


----------



## luedriver

golov17 said:


> also good cheap buds, like seahf32 too..


 
  
  


vapman said:


> Seahf 32 sound signature


 


chinmie said:


> is the seahf 32 sounded different from the Ty Hi Z 32?


 
 I burned in the seahf for more than a week in total, and they still give me a slight headache, they are pretty clear though, compared to the hp32, they are more treble centric,
  
 measuring them, the seahf has almost flat graph with a gentle slope from 250Hz till 4Khz and then a dip and a peak at about 9.5Khz with a roll off after

  
  
 the hp32 has more of a valley in comparison, with a 2 - 4 Khz "hill" and a treble peak at about 8Khz

  
  
 but my graph isn't as aggressive as showing peaks and valleys as normal headphone graphs a slight bump for my graph is shown as a big hill in normal 
  

 here the 3Khz peak on my measurements is just a bump in normal, but the big hill/mountain in the normal is a small bump in my measurements


----------



## kartik7405

> here the 3Khz peak on my measurements is just a bump in normal, but the big hill/mountain in the normal is a small bump in my measurements


 
 Have a look at this app.This is the best spl meter for ios.Other spl meter are not accurate.Splnfft  give similar result like hardware based spl meter.
  
 https://itunes.apple.com/in/app/splnfft-noise-meter/id355396114?mt=8


----------



## chinmie

vapman said:


> My post with the razor picture was more truth than joking. I don't have very much good to say about TY 32 but it is better than Seahf 32 unless you CRAVE treble.




thanks for the heads up, looks like i won't be getting the seahf if the treble is piercing  
i do like the Ty Hi z however, the treble is bright but not irritating and the bass is thumping without being blurry
i am planning to collect the budget buds (monk + and qian 39) and also a higher priced earbud with clear sounding and wide soundstage. any suggestion? 

also, does the ty hi z 32 black cable different with the red cable ones?


----------



## luedriver

kartik7405 said:


> Have a look at this app.This is the best spl meter for ios.Other spl meter are not accurate.Splnfft  give similar result like hardware based spl meter.
> 
> https://itunes.apple.com/in/app/splnfft-noise-meter/id355396114?mt=8


 
 it's not that is inaccurate, it's more about scale, the app doesn't scale like a normal graph for headphones, giving more or less emphasis in areas making it seem wrong
  
 for accuracy test I tried online tone generator and it accuratly shows the frequency played, but there are other factors that come into play when measuring earbuds, like dummy heads and isolation from outside noise


chinmie said:


> thanks for the heads up, looks like i won't be getting the seahf if the treble is piercing
> i do like the Ty Hi z however, the treble is bright but not irritating and the bass is thumping without being blurry
> i am planning to collect the budget buds (monk + and qian 39) and also a higher priced earbud with clear sounding and wide soundstage. any suggestion?
> 
> also, does the ty hi z 32 black cable different with the red cable ones?


 
 the hp32s is different/better than hp32, in my honest opinion, it sounds more clearer, perhaps has more extended treble and bass


----------



## Raketen

luedriver said:


> here the 3Khz peak on my measurements is just a bump in normal, but the big hill/mountain in the normal is a small bump in my measurements




 ICYMI that goldenears chart is percieved frequency response not an actual measurement.


----------



## luedriver

raketen said:


> ICYMI that goldenears chart is percieved frequency response not an actual measurement.


 
 1st had to look up ICYMI just an fyi for those (like me) who don't know
  
 2nd I wanted something to compare with, something that was the same earbud that I also can measure
  
 3rd you're right this is how they measured them (sony mdr-e9)
  
it doesn't look as bad now


----------



## AudioNewbi3

So for those who know me, they know that I destroyed my SeaHF 320 Ohm V2 due to my own stupidity and the V1 due to an attempt to DIY (cable change). Now, two weeks and one New Year Celebration later, the drivers have finally arrived.

 Bug Bros sent me two sets of drivers one which was tunned for vocals (which I put into the SeaHF White Earbud Shells (V1) and a pair of normal drivers without foam, which I out into the black earbud shells (V2)).


  
 Interestingly, the difference between the SeaHF V1 and V2 shells are as shown bellow. The V1 has no foam covering the vent holes whilst the V2 have then. Hence the "foammed" drivers to V1 shell and "unfoamed" to V2 shells (maybe they will be th same?) but who knows until proper burn in)

  
 The results:


----------



## fairx

audionewbi3 said:


> So for those who know me, they know that I destroyed my SeaHF 320 Ohm V2 due to my own stupidity and the V1 due to an attempt to DIY (cable change). Now, two weeks and one New Year Celebration later, the drivers have finally arrived.
> 
> 
> Bug Bros sent me two sets of drivers one which was tunned for vocals (which I put into the SeaHF White Earbud Shells (V1) and a pair of normal drivers without foam, which I out into the black earbud shells (V2)).
> ...


bro what cable u use as diy? I want to recable my Philips and tomahawk. I ordered one budget cable seems good but still busy with work. But seeing yours made my hands itchy to try a lil bit.


----------



## Joy Boy

I see that so many discussion of Ty and seahf.
For seahf I agree that it's a good product. Already tried 32 ohm to 320 ohm version, although most of them is the old batch one.

But for Ty, I give a try for 3 varian, 32ohm-colarad-150ohm. And they can't satisfy me. For my ear, it's not THAT good. Or anyone here can't suggest me their best series?


----------



## music4mhell

joy boy said:


> I see that so many discussion of Ty and seahf.
> For seahf I agree that it's a good product. Already tried 32 ohm to 320 ohm version, although most of them is the old batch one.
> 
> But for Ty, I give a try for 3 varian, 32ohm-colarad-150ohm. And they can't satisfy me. For my ear, it's not THAT good. Or anyone here can't suggest me their best series?


 
 You have to share your budget first, then only people can share their suggestions


----------



## AudioNewbi3

fairx said:


> bro what cable u use as diy? I want to recable my Philips and tomahawk. I ordered one budget cable seems good but still busy with work. But seeing yours made my hands itchy to try a lil bit.


 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.tNqDla&id=540678606174&_u=42i926dj34ab
  
 Itulah dia


----------



## Sempenyi

fairx said:


> Half hour queuing at local post office because the mailman can reach me before, I finally get my qian 39.
> 
> After 4 hour listening I can safely say I found my replacement for best budget earbud. I'd say it's better than ty32 and even reaching tomahawk level. Even better because of small shell and fit perfectly.
> 
> ...




Try qian25 fareal old batch and old monk. I think you'll like them



luedriver said:


> it's not that is inaccurate, it's more about scale, the app doesn't scale like a normal graph for headphones, giving more or less emphasis in areas making it seem wrong
> 
> for accuracy test I tried online tone generator and it accuratly shows the frequency played, but there are other factors that come into play when measuring earbuds, like dummy heads and isolation from outside noise
> the hp32s is different/better than hp32, in my honest opinion, it sounds more clearer, perhaps has more extended treble and bass




Does it has bigger bass ? Ty32 bass and treble is too much for me.



joy boy said:


> I see that so many discussion of Ty and seahf.
> For seahf I agree that it's a good product. Already tried 32 ohm to 320 ohm version, although most of them is the old batch one.
> 
> But for Ty, I give a try for 3 varian, 32ohm-colarad-150ohm. And they can't satisfy me. For my ear, it's not THAT good. Or anyone here can't suggest me their best series?




Ty650. Lel.


----------



## Joy Boy

music4mhell said:


> You have to share your budget first, then only people can share their suggestions



I think i can spend up to $200 if it's that good. Firstly i'm planning to try the demo unit at local audio shop. Theb let's my ear decide 



sempenyi said:


> Try qian25 fareal old batch and old monk. I think you'll like them
> Does it has bigger bass ? Ty32 bass and treble is too much for me.
> Ty650. Lel.



Yup. It's their top of the line, right? I'll try it..thanks


----------



## Majin

willber said:


> How long have you had the E808+? It improves a lot after many hours of burn-in or usage.


 
  
 I have it for over a week now. They are prolly on the same tier but the airy soundstage from the monk+ just gives me an enjoyable experience.


----------



## vapman

Damn it AudioNewbi3 all my cable braids look like a 6 year old did them and yours look awesome. Argh


----------



## Willber

majin said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > How long have you had the E808+? It improves a lot after many hours of burn-in or usage.
> ...


 
  
 I asked the wrong question, what I meant was how many hours of use has it had? Mine improved noticeably after about 50 hours and continued to get better. But everyone has their own preferences.


----------



## Moscow

I'll ask here even it is not a right place to do it. What are your DAC/AMP recommendation in $500 budget?
Most people on head-fi talking about DAC/AMP use IEMs or full-size stuff.
I'll stick for a while with Shozy Stardust and some cheaper buds with Android cellphone and hi-fi player (not sure wich one yet), various music but nothing heavier than Pink Floyd, lots of jazz. Focusing on details, soundstage and low end.
Chord Mojo, Centrance, Ifi?


----------



## purplesun

majin said:


> I have it for over a week now. They are prolly on the same tier but the airy soundstage from the monk+ just gives me an enjoyable experience.


 
  
 IMHO, E808+ never gets anywhere near the tube-like tonality of Monk+. Closest they come together in sound signatures is, after many hours of use, E808+'s V-shape sound flattens & becomes more natural with have better definition of  instruments/vocals The E808+ sound also thickens slightly, but no where near as warm/dark as Monk+. In terms of airiness, E808+ is quite open to the physical listening environment as well as the airiness/reverb built into the music/source equipment, and does not add much soundstage coloration beyond that. Having said that, it is the biggest out-of-skull sound I have heard that rivals good open back headphones - just not the "reach out & touch the musicians" tube-like sound of monk+.


----------



## golov17

moscow said:


> I'll ask here even it is not a right place to do it. What are your DAC/AMP recommendation in $500 budget?
> Most people on head-fi talking about DAC/AMP use IEMs or full-size stuff.
> I'll stick for a while with Shozy Stardust and some cheaper buds with Android cellphone and hi-fi player (not sure wich one yet), various music but nothing heavier than Pink Floyd, lots of jazz. Focusing on details, soundstage and low end.
> Chord Mojo, Centrance, Ifi?


 http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-audio-micro-idsd/reviews/17642


----------



## vapman

moscow said:


> I'll ask here even it is not a right place to do it. What are your DAC/AMP recommendation in $500 budget?
> Most people on head-fi talking about DAC/AMP use IEMs or full-size stuff.
> I'll stick for a while with Shozy Stardust and some cheaper buds with Android cellphone and hi-fi player (not sure wich one yet), various music but nothing heavier than Pink Floyd, lots of jazz. Focusing on details, soundstage and low end.
> Chord Mojo, Centrance, Ifi?


 
 mojo if you have all lossless, iDSD Micro if you want to still be able to enjoy MP3 too


----------



## Sempenyi

moscow said:


> I'll ask here even it is not a right place to do it. What are your DAC/AMP recommendation in $500 budget?
> Most people on head-fi talking about DAC/AMP use IEMs or full-size stuff.
> I'll stick for a while with Shozy Stardust and some cheaper buds with Android cellphone and hi-fi player (not sure wich one yet), various music but nothing heavier than Pink Floyd, lots of jazz. Focusing on details, soundstage and low end.
> Chord Mojo, Centrance, Ifi?




You never go wrong with mojo.


----------



## BlacLord

I just bought a pair of Auglamour RX-1s and let them burn in for a few hours... yet they're not impressing me that much yet to be honest. Do they take quite a while to properly burn in? Because at the moment, the clarity is comparable to my Earpods, the bass is weaker and there's a kind of distortion going on with more complex songs. I first noticed the latter in songs like Desert Rose where's a lot going on.


----------



## kfarndog

moscow said:


> I'll ask here even it is not a right place to do it. What are your DAC/AMP recommendation in $500 budget?
> Most people on head-fi talking about DAC/AMP use IEMs or full-size stuff.
> I'll stick for a while with Shozy Stardust and some cheaper buds with Android cellphone and hi-fi player (not sure wich one yet), various music but nothing heavier than Pink Floyd, lots of jazz. Focusing on details, soundstage and low end.
> Chord Mojo, Centrance, Ifi?


 
 Mojo is certainly a great choice, but don't discount something like the Dragonfly Red or Audioengine D3.  I like my Dragonfly for sound, small size and ability to use with most any device.


----------



## chaiyuta

Did anyone buy K's earphone 500Ohm balanced version? I heard that its cable is softer than 3.5 SE version so this version may less microphonic. Is it real?


----------



## luedriver

sempenyi said:


> Does it has bigger bass ? Ty32 bass and treble is too much for me.


 
 I feel like the hp32s is more v-shaped and the hp32 v1 is more flat, both have elevated bass and decent extension, that is the limit to my audio knowledge however
  
 also the hp32s is a bit more harder to drive than the hp32 v1, meaning I have to adjust the volume a bit up in comparison to the hp32 v1


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> moscow said:
> 
> 
> > I'll ask here even it is not a right place to do it. What are your DAC/AMP recommendation in $500 budget?
> ...


 
 Mojo plays MP3 also very nicely .!


----------



## music4mhell

joy boy said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > You have to share your budget first, then only people can share their suggestions
> ...


 
 At $200 budget, you can go for Shozy Stardust or Cypherus Campfred.


----------



## Townyj

Im quite surprised with the HE-150 from Penon. Definitely has low end kick, but its a nicely filled out sound for the price. Tried the Colarad C01, need a bit more time with it.

Trying the HE150 with electronic and edm... like a mini subwoofer inside the damn shell. Sheesh. Enjoying it actually


----------



## rkw

chaiyuta said:


> Did anyone buy K's earphone 500Ohm balanced version? I heard that its cable is softer than 3.5 SE version so this version may less microphonic. Is it real?


 
  
 This review was based on the balanced version: http://www.head-fi.org/products/ks-earphone-500ohm-earbud/reviews/17622


> _There can be some slight noise within the housings, as I can hear the cable rub a little against the inside when I move around.
> Also, just touching the earbud or cable can cause a small amount of microphonics._


----------



## Townyj

rkw said:


> This review was based on the balanced version: http://www.head-fi.org/products/ks-earphone-500ohm-earbud/reviews/17622




From the pics... thats unbalanced bloke


----------



## chaiyuta

rkw said:


> This review was based on the balanced version: http://www.head-fi.org/products/ks-earphone-500ohm-earbud/reviews/17622


 
 This reviews is based on 3.5 SE version II ( gold 3.5mm jack), isn't it? The word "500 Ohm balanced High impedence" may confuse you.
  
 There are 2.5 balanced version I (silver color jack) and version II (gold jack) in Aliexpress.
  
 I also want to know the difference between version I and version II in term of sound and material quaility.


----------



## rkw

townyj said:


> From the pics... thats unbalanced bloke


 
  


chaiyuta said:


> This reviews is based on 3.5 SE version II ( gold 3.5mm jack), isn't it?


 
  
 Look closely at the photos and read his review!
  
 He reviewed a balanced version that terminates in two 3.5mm plugs. You can see it clearly in the photos.


----------



## chaiyuta

rkw said:


> Look closely at the photos and read his review!
> 
> He reviewed a balanced version that terminates in two 3.5mm plugs. You can see it clearly in the photos.


 
 He posted the product link in the review. Did you ever click it? I have no intention to make fun of you. These photos ... Is the earphones placed on mirrored-glass? What player can play the balanced output via 2x3.5mm SE plug?


----------



## KcLKcL

My QianYun Qian 39 has arrived

I have mixed feelings about this Earbud.. I guess I still prefer my TY HI-Z 32.

The Qian has somewhat a W shaped sounds, I think the mid is too forward for my taste. Vocals sounds brilliant, but listening to EDM is not as pleasant as in the TY HI-Z...


----------



## vapman

kclkcl said:


> My QianYun Qian 39 has arrived
> 
> I have mixed feelings about this Earbud.. I guess I still prefer my TY HI-Z 32.
> 
> The Qian has somewhat a W shaped sounds, I think the mid is too forward for my taste. Vocals sounds brilliant, but listening to EDM is not as pleasant as in the TY HI-Z...


 
 Give it about 40-60 hours burn in time. If you still don't like it, it's okay if it's not for you, can sell it to someone


----------



## base08

vapman said:


> Give it about 40-60 hours burn in time. If you still don't like it, it's okay if it's not for you, can sell it to someone


 

 Mine are stuck since 30 of November in Shenzhen, and no sign of them coming to Portugal... Very curious to hear them!


----------



## fajrinandro

Hy guys, is any cheapfi earbud out there that have a cheap price like ty hiz 32, monk, qian 39,etc, good price to performance, and have a yuin housing (or any other housing besides the mainstream one)? I prefer the smaller housing, but can't afford the yuin family yet


----------



## vapman

fajrinandro said:


> Hy guys, is any cheapfi earbud out there that have a cheap price like ty hiz 32, monk, qian 39,etc, good price to performance, and have a yuin housing (or any other housing besides the mainstream one)? I prefer the smaller housing, but can't afford the yuin family yet


 
 buy Yuin style shell, put PT15 or qian or edifier or she3800 drivers in it


----------



## Willber

fajrinandro said:


> Hy guys, is any cheapfi earbud out there that have a cheap price like ty hiz 32, monk, qian 39,etc, good price to performance, and have a yuin housing (or any other housing besides the mainstream one)? I prefer the smaller housing, but can't afford the yuin family yet


 

 The Qian39 is smaller than the others you mentioned. The Sony E808+ is the most comfortable for me as it is slightly small and asymmetrically shaped. It also sounds very good and is only $4.
  
 Have a look at this thread:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds


----------



## Willber

blaclord said:


> I just bought a pair of Auglamour RX-1s and let them burn in for a few hours... yet they're not impressing me that much yet to be honest. Do they take quite a while to properly burn in? Because at the moment, the clarity is comparable to my Earpods, the bass is weaker and there's a kind of distortion going on with more complex songs. I first noticed the latter in songs like Desert Rose where's a lot going on.


 

 I'm not a fan of the RX-1 but there definitely should not be a problem with clarity which is excellent, especially in the mids and highs (it lacks bass IMO). I don't remember them changing much after use although I don't do dedicated burn-in. Without knowing Earpods I can't compare but it sounds as though your RX-1 might be faulty as mine handle complex music well.


----------



## base08

I heard you can Mod them to have a bit more bass, by removing some piece of foam on one of the bass ports...
  
 It was a russian guy who did, and he even said the drivers on the RX-1 are very similar to the ones on the Cygnus...
  
 If i find the link again I can share it here!


willber said:


> I'm not a fan of the RX-1 but there definitely should not be a problem with clarity which is excellent, especially in the mids and highs (it lacks bass IMO). I don't remember them changing much after use although I don't do dedicated burn-in. Without knowing Earpods I can't compare but it sounds as though your RX-1 might be faulty as mine handle complex music well.


----------



## Willber

base08 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> willber said:
> ...


 
  
 Thanks, I don't do modding as I have plenty of other buds that I'm happy with, but others on here might be interested. Although I don't remember anyone doing it with an RX-1...


----------



## annapan2009

Hello，everyone，do you like which headset？Can you sent to picture？


----------



## golov17

annapan2009 said:


> Hello，everyone，do you like which headset？Can you sent to picture？


Monk Plus, Remax rm303, 1More eo320, etc.


----------



## boblauer

rkw said:


> Look closely at the photos and read his review!
> 
> He reviewed a balanced version that terminates in two 3.5mm plugs. You can see it clearly in the photos.



It's photographed on a mirror,only o,e plugin other photos


----------



## BloodyPenguin

rkw said:


> Look closely at the photos and read his review!
> 
> He reviewed a balanced version that terminates in two 3.5mm plugs. You can see it clearly in the photos.


 
  
  


chaiyuta said:


> He posted the product link in the review. Did you ever click it? I have no intention to make fun of you. These photos ... Is the earphones placed on mirrored-glass? What player can play the balanced output via 2x3.5mm SE plug?


 
  
 The Item Descriptions on Aliexpress can get a little wonky.  I reviewed the non-balanced version with the 3.5mm plug.  Clieos has the 2.5mm balanced version I believe.  
  
 --


----------



## BloodyPenguin

**Few updates.**
  
 I should have a BIG review, hopefully out in the next two days of seven different buds from the TY Hi-Z line up.  It is taking a bit of time because there is so many of them.


 ALSO, I can confirm now I have the *Puresounds PS100-600 *(3.5mm version) in transit.  I'm very much looking forward to getting this pair in my ears.  
  
 www.aliexpress.com/item/Orignal-Puresounds-PS100-600-ohm-Balanced-Impedance-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud-600-ohms-Earbud-Kick-k3003/32787051608.html
  
 --


----------



## teston

bloodypenguin said:


> **Few updates.**
> 
> I should have a BIG review, hopefully out in the next two days of seven different buds from the TY Hi-Z line up.  It is taking a bit of time because there is so many of them.
> 
> ...


 
 That's what catch my interest recently. In some review they even compare this one with fullsize headphone. I'm looking forward to your review Justin


----------



## chaiyuta

bloodypenguin said:


> **Few updates.**
> 
> I should have a BIG review, hopefully out in the next two days of seven different buds from the TY Hi-Z line up.  It is taking a bit of time because there is so many of them.
> 
> ...


 
 Really curious that between Puresounds PS100-600 and K's Earphone 500 Ohm who will be the winner.


----------



## Fabi

chaiyuta said:


> This reviews is based on 3.5 SE version II ( gold 3.5mm jack), isn't it? The word "500 Ohm balanced High impedence" may confuse you.
> 
> There are 2.5 balanced version I (silver color jack) and version II (gold jack) in Aliexpress.
> 
> I also want to know the difference between version I and version II in term of sound and material quaility.


 
 Unbalanced
 https://aliexpress.com/item/Hot-K-s-Earphone-500-ohm-Balanced-High-Impedance-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud-500-ohms-Earbud/32751502658.html?spm=2114.13010308.0.0.ufTl7N
  
 Balanced
 https://aliexpress.com/item/New-K-s-Earphone-500-ohm-2-5mm-Balanced-Plug-High-Impedance-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud/32779007786.html?spm=2114.13010308.0.0.ufTl7N


----------



## fairx

Busy with works today and no time to listen to my new qian39. Just put it on burn machine. 

But just now when I took a break and listen again, on my it's soo good. I agree with vapman thorough review of qian39. It made my ty 320 ohm sound veiled in comparison. But on my desktop setup ty 320 still win by wide margin. But I still prefer ty 32 v1 for binaural. Ty 32 has more presence in binaural recording IMHO.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

chaiyuta said:


> Really curious that between Puresounds PS100-600 and K's Earphone 500 Ohm who will be the winner.


 
  
 Don't forget the TY Hi-Z 650 thrown in the mix as well!
  
 --


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Are these Vintage Sony E-215 any good?

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=2013.1.20141002.9.TB98aL&scm=1007.10009.70205.100200300000001&id=526572773382&pvid=87517f3f-3225-4b71-a86b-10619c4e6b6f


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

vapman said:


> Give it about 40-60 hours burn in time. If you still don't like it, it's okay if it's not for you, can sell it to someone


 
 It's pretty hard to sell ear buds.  The ick factor.


----------



## mochill

bloodypenguin said:


> **Few updates.**
> 
> I should have a BIG review, hopefully out in the next two days of seven different buds from the TY Hi-Z line up.  It is taking a bit of time because there is so many of them.
> 
> ...


I as well should be having the puresounds ps600 balanced in transit


----------



## tinkertailor

laughmoredaily said:


> It's pretty hard to sell ear buds.  The ick factor.


 
 If you don't like em hit me up for a sale or trade, i could always use a second back up pair.


----------



## Fabi

Very nice, Mo !


----------



## mochill

Your welcome


----------



## flamesofarctica

bloodypenguin said:


> I should have a BIG review, hopefully out in the next two days of seven different buds from the TY Hi-Z line up.  It is taking a bit of time because there is so many of them.




Very interested in reading this! I don't like the TY32S really although I'm going to try with different foams. The TY150 I don't mind but I didn't like it with donuts and to be honest to me sounds better foamless. Yet still, I have the 320 and 650 on order


----------



## golov17

My PS260 & PS500 classical on custom house


----------



## BloodyPenguin

flamesofarctica said:


> Very interested in reading this! I don't like the TY32S really although I'm going to try with different foams. The TY150 I don't mind but I didn't like it with donuts and to be honest to me sounds better foamless. Yet still, I have the 320 and 650 on order


 
  
 In my review, I don't personalize my thoughts too much.  I focus more on a description of each Earbuds Signature.  

 Personal preference wise, the TY32(version2)/TY32s are not my favorites due to their V shaped sound.  Though, I do think for their very low prices that they are a good buy for those looking for that type of signature.  
  
 The TY HP-650 is a clear favorite of the lineup for me, but it is also the most expensive.


----------



## JASru

Colorad received, as well as Fareal 64 and apparently new TP-16 as at least the housing is different. Out of the box Colorad sounds fabulous. Will go in to details tomorrow.


----------



## tinkertailor

jasru said:


> Colorad received, as well as Fareal 64 and apparently new TP-16 as at least the housing is different. Out of the box Colorad sounds fabulous. Will go in to details tomorrow.


 
 Would love to hear your thoughts on Fareal 64 and compared to **** pt15, qian39, monk plus. I have Fareal 64 but I want to see if my ears are working.


----------



## Ira Delphic

My Ty HP650 was delivered Tuesday, still haven't been able to pick it up


----------



## slim311

tinkertailor said:


> Would love to hear your thoughts on Fareal 64 and compared to **** pt15, qian39, monk plus. I have Fareal 64 but I want to see if my ears are working.




Not the OP, but I have 3 of those buds I can compare.

My Fareal 64 is v1, and TBH I like it the least between Qian39 and Monk+. I haven't heard PT15 so can't compare to that.

My preferences lean toward a v-shaped sound, and in that regard the Fareal doesn't do it for me, not quite enough low end, not quite sparkly enough on the highs. It's almost TOO neutral, if that makes any sense. It's just boring to me. I prefer the Fareal 32 over the 64 even. 

I am systematically going through all the buds I ordered on 11.11 (and a couple more from the classifieds) and to my ears anyway, the Fareal 64 are at the bottom of the list. I'd rather listen to K25 or Qian25 if wanting a more balanced signature, but as always, YMMV.


----------



## tinkertailor

slim311 said:


> YMMV


 
 Nah that's similar to what I found, which is why I was curious. I actually have the 32 ohm coming (i ordered a pair that i found after ordering were actually fareal 32 ohm) ... I'm curious now. One thing that is alright about the Fareal's is that if they a don't work out the cables aren't bad to reuse for broken buds. I found the 64 cable ( i have pink braided) to make sounds rubbing inside the mX500 shell. i think if I recable I will use some small pieces of heat-shrinking rubber to stop that. Did you find that with your 64s? (were yours braided as well?)


----------



## slim311

tinkertailor said:


> I found the 64 cable ( i have pink braided) to make sounds rubbing inside the mX500 shell. i think if I recable I will use some small pieces of heat-shrinking rubber to stop that. Did you find that with your 64s? (were yours braided as well?)




If I'm not mistaken, the pink braided cable is v2, while mine is a v1 with a black braided cable, like so:



I didn't notice any rubbing sounds initially, but now that you mention it, there is a very slight noise, but not enough for me to have noticed without you bringing it up, and it's inaudible when anything is playing. Not sure how the different cables affect that though.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

bloodypenguin said:


> **Few updates.**
> 
> I should have a BIG review, hopefully out in the next two days of seven different buds from the TY Hi-Z line up.  It is taking a bit of time because there is so many of them.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Can I ask which one is the 3.5mm ? I'm confuse as there is two option to choose and it doesn't say why one cost more or less. So the $159 is? & $143?


----------



## kartik7405

midnightempest said:


> Can I ask which one is the 3.5mm ? I'm confuse as there is two option to choose and it doesn't say why one cost more or less. So the $159 is? & $143?


 
 Out of two one is standard 3.5 mm and another one balanced 2.5mm .Balanced one cost $159.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

midnightempest said:


> Can I ask which one is the 3.5mm ? I'm confuse as there is two option to choose and it doesn't say why one cost more or less. So the $159 is? & $143?




If you click on the options you will see one says normal (3.5mm) and one says balanced (2.5mm).

--


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

kartik7405 said:


> Out of two one is standard 3.5 mm and another one balanced 2.5mm .Balanced one cost $159.


 
  
 Thanks.
  
  
  
  


bloodypenguin said:


> If you click on the options you will see one says normal (3.5mm) and one says balanced (2.5mm).
> 
> --


 
  
  
 I have to hover my mouse over to get "Normal and Balance" to show up. Sorry I'm new to this site. I'm really reallly Looking forward to your thoughts on these. especially with such a BOLD claim to kicking the K3003 & IE800's ass.  
  
 Thanks.


----------



## chaiyuta

fabi said:


> Unbalanced
> https://aliexpress.com/item/Hot-K-s-Earphone-500-ohm-Balanced-High-Impedance-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud-500-ohms-Earbud/32751502658.html?spm=2114.13010308.0.0.ufTl7N
> 
> Balanced
> https://aliexpress.com/item/New-K-s-Earphone-500-ohm-2-5mm-Balanced-Plug-High-Impedance-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud/32779007786.html?spm=2114.13010308.0.0.ufTl7N


 
 Yes, I knew. In conclusion, there are total 4 models of K's Earphone. But there is no detail about cable material among of them. I just saw some pics from japanese guys in twitter said that the cable of 2.5mm model is more flexible than 3.5 version. Also, I really curious about version I and II. Do they just change only color of their jack barrels?


----------



## Fabi

chaiyuta said:


> Also, I really curious about version I and II. Do they just change only color of their jack barrels?



As I remember now, the only place I saw info about v1 and v2 is there and on taobaocart some time ago. 
http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=0.0.0.0&id=534582316342

Translation
V1:monocristal copper taiwanese cable or plug 
V2: bigger or more wires silver plated copper 
Different plugs. 
That's what advertised. 
I went for v2 without much hesitation.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Whew!!!!  I JUST finished my review of seven TY Hi-Z Earbuds: 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/831374/introduction-to-ty-hi-z-earbud-family-mega-review
  

  

  

  

  

  
 --


----------



## To.M

Well done sir!


----------



## Townyj

Loved the read Justin! Nice work!


----------



## JASru

tinkertailor said:


> Would love to hear your thoughts on Fareal 64 and compared to **** pt15, qian39, monk plus. I have Fareal 64 but I want to see if my ears are working.


 
 Fareal seems to be clumsy. I am trying different genres of music with them - the stage is always kinda small, while the details ar more or less ok. The bass is here, but not something to be hyped about. The treble is also not so bad. 
 I guess they may be described as mediocre. They are not bad at any part of the range, but the staging ruins it all imo.
 For reference - I have a clear+black cable version.

 PT-15 are more specific ones. For me the first task was to tame that insane treble peak when listening to violins. So copper cable and VE foams made it ok. Currently it is my  pick for classical music. The bass and mids are ok on this one, but it is staging, details and treble extension that makes it fancy.

 Qian 39 compared to Fareal is more warm, a bit more laid-back, generally less balanced, with a shift to bassy side, but it is fun. Qian's sig is fun. It isn't neutral, it is not for analythical listening imo.
  
 Monk Plus - well, despite the fact that these were my introduction to earbud world they barely get any use. They are focused on bringing in the wow-factor to person not expecting it. And they mostly succeed in it utilising its kit - good staging and very decent instrument separation, while lacking tonal balance overall.
  
 Talking about Colorad - well, first thing I should note is the kit - leather clip + foams in a very nice box makes it really neat. The cable is same as on 32S by TY. I started to think that this is the superb listening experience until I noticed one peak - somewheere in high-hats or plates area. It surely is small in width but it brings some unwanted noises in some tracks where u least expect it to. For me it was not so many tracks, around 3 out of 40. What I should note about these red devils is the speed of response - they are one of the fastest-decaying ones that I heard of. Due to this and abscence of high-hats in most of the tracks - these ones are good for glitch, techno, electro and so on. Add to it the very punchy clean bass, decent separation, good mids( not outstanding though). Oh, yeah and the staging is good too, but again, nothing outstanding. 
 For peak example if you listen to Diana Krall's "Cry me a river" you will hear the sandy (pouring sound-like) sound up in your face.

 Anyway, for Colorad and Fareal these are day one impressions, I will try some burn in on them.
  
 Regarding TP-16 - I spent about half-hour comparing the old and new versions and I have to admit that even if there is a difference it should be very small. The housings now look like that:

  
 EDIT: compared Ty-32 to C-01. They are almost identical. The difference is really slim. No point buying C-01.

 Somehow I put 32 to burn in and forget to listen to them afterwards. I feel dumb =/ Same peak, same decay speed.


----------



## Moscow

What is earbud perfect fit for jazz contrabass such as Crischian McBride and Co.?


----------



## chaiyuta

bloodypenguin said:


> Whew!!!!  I JUST finished my review of seven TY Hi-Z Earbuds:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/831374/introduction-to-ty-hi-z-earbud-family-mega-review
> 
> ...


 
 It seems K's 500 Ohm resolution is the winner. Between K's 500 Ohm and PS100-600 Ohm, which one has louder sound (?more sensitivity?) at the same volume setting?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

chaiyuta said:


> It seems K's 500 Ohm resolution is the winner. Between K's 500 Ohm and PS100-600 Ohm, which one has louder sound (?more sensitivity?) at the same volume setting?


 
  
 I'll have to let you know when my PS100-600 arrives.  Also, I should have the PS100-500 coming as well, which I hear from the maker sounds very much like the K's 500.
  
 --


----------



## BlacLord

willber said:


> I'm not a fan of the RX-1 but there definitely should not be a problem with clarity which is excellent, especially in the mids and highs (it lacks bass IMO). I don't remember them changing much after use although I don't do dedicated burn-in. Without knowing Earpods I can't compare but it sounds as though your RX-1 might be faulty as mine handle complex music well.


 
 After a little more listening, the clarity is somewhat better than the Earpods but lack the "warmth" of them and the bass isn't quite as good either, though I suppose the latter could be the fact that the design of Earpods create a better seal.
  
 I'm starting to wonder how the much vaunted Monk+ compares to the RX-1 in terms of clarity and bass.


----------



## Willber

blaclord said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not a fan of the RX-1 but there definitely should not be a problem with clarity which is excellent, especially in the mids and highs (it lacks bass IMO). I don't remember them changing much after use although I don't do dedicated burn-in. Without knowing Earpods I can't compare but it sounds as though your RX-1 might be faulty as mine handle complex music well.
> ...


 
  
 If bass is important then there are better options, eg Qian39, TY Hi-Z 32, Sony E808+ (my favourite after lots of use/burn-in). All have good clarity and soundstage as well IMO.


----------



## tinkertailor

jasru said:


> Fareal seems to be clumsy. I am trying different genres of music with them - the stage is always kinda small, while the details ar more or less ok. The bass is here, but not something to be hyped about. The treble is also not so bad.
> I guess they may be described as mediocre. They are not bad at any part of the range, but the staging ruins it all imo.
> For reference - I have a clear+black cable version.
> 
> ...


 
 Nice, very detailed response, thanks!


----------



## Grayson73

ClieOS, can you elaborate on why you put the AuGlamour RX-1 in Category 2?  What did you like about them and what music genres sound good with them?


----------



## BlacLord

grayson73 said:


> ClieOS, can you elaborate on why you put the AuGlamour RX-1 in Category 2?  What did you like about them and what music genres sound good with them?


 
  
 I was wondering this too.
  
 The physical design is bang on the money and the clarity is great, but I can't honestly say it trumps the Earpods in cat. 4 by much if at all. IMO, they're in the same ball park for their own different strengths.
  
 I've gone from Apple Earbuds > Sennheiser MX80 > Sony MDR-E818LP > Sennheiser MX580 > Earpods > RX-1 and this is the first time I've felt underwhelmed. No "ooh, aww" this time around. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





willber said:


> If bass is important then there are better options, eg Qian39, TY Hi-Z 32, Sony E808+ (my favourite after lots of use/burn-in). All have good clarity and soundstage as well IMO.


 
  
 Had a peruse around, and decided to order the Qian39 based on your recommendation and another detailed review I've seen.


----------



## AkashS04

Hi Friends,
  
 I am using iPod Nano 1st Gen 4 GB. Actually, as you know, I had same 2 GB iPod which I foolishly exchanged under iPod Replacement Program and got 7th Gen which was not sounding good hence I bought this (used one) again recently. However, I noticed one thing, though there seems to be no issue with iPod, I am feeling some less Bass and Punch. Not sure if the reason is that I am using PowerAmp for some time and it has huge Punch and Bass and Boom.  Or may be if I continue to listen to some time, it will be comfortable. PowerAmp has huge Boomy Bass and Punch but sometime it distorted slightly or lacks details actually.
  
 I heard a lot about Rockbox. Is it really good and if I install it on my iPod, will it allow me to give more Punchy, Boomy and Bassy sound with good clarity but no harshness? Something similar to PowerAmp? I noticed that it has configuration option such as Stereo Width, setting for Bass and Treble and big number of Pre Set Equalisers? Can anyone pls suggest what is Rockbox exactly? Also, in case if I don't like that, can I revert my iPod to original Apple Firmware in case if it makes iPod worse than original? Pls suggest.
  
 Though some old threads, it seems that Rockbox will literally kill the Battery life of Nano 1st Gen. However, that threat was of 2005-2006 so I am not sure if it has changed in the latest version of Rockbox. Is anyone using Rockbox latest version on Nano 1st Gen and getting good 10-11 Hours battery? Pls suggest.
  
 Just to let you know, I listen to only MP3 Files s not sure if using MP3 or Lossless will make any difference in Battery life of Nano 1st Gen.

Regards,
 Akash


----------



## vapman

akashs04 said:


> Regards,
> Akash


 
 Try ask it here. http://www.head-fi.org/t/627111/what-is-the-sound-quality-of-iphone-ipad-ipod-touch


----------



## boblauer

Or conversely go to Rockbox's site and ask there. May get a one sided response but better than no response.


----------



## vapman

The RX1 is not an impressor of an earbud. It does one job and it does a VERY good job of it. If you made the sound range of the MX985 narrower to the point where it was  basically just midrange, you have the RX1. For this purpose it is exceptional at its price. Anyone looking for fun bass or sparkly treble need not apply.


----------



## BlacLord

akashs04 said:


> Hi Friends,
> 
> I am using iPod Nano 1st Gen 4 GB. Actually, as you know, I had same 2 GB iPod which I foolishly exchanged under iPod Replacement Program and got 7th Gen which was not sounding good hence I bought this (used one) again recently. However, I noticed one thing, though there seems to be no issue with iPod, I am feeling some less Bass and Punch. Not sure if the reason is that I am using PowerAmp for some time and it has huge Punch and Bass and Boom.  Or may be if I continue to listen to some time, it will be comfortable. PowerAmp has huge Boomy Bass and Punch but sometime it distorted slightly or lacks details actually.
> 
> ...


 
 Do you use that username on another forum with the initials NB?


----------



## JASru

vapman said:


> The RX1 is not an impressor of an earbud. It does one job and it does a VERY good job of it. If you made the sound range of the MX985 narrower to the point where it was  basically just midrange, you have the RX1. For this purpose it is exceptional at its price. Anyone looking for fun bass or sparkly treble need not apply.


 I should note that while being equalised on bass and treble rx-1 shows no distortion. It has a very capable driver.


----------



## vapman

jasru said:


> I should note that while being equalised on bass and treble rx-1 shows no distortion. It has a very capable driver.


 
 I agree completely and it must be noted it did just fine with my most aggressive bass EQ which makes probably half the new headphones i try distrort. but, even with that, extension on either end isn't particularly impressive


----------



## JASru

vapman said:


> I agree completely and it must be noted it did just fine with my most aggressive bass EQ which makes probably half the new headphones i try distrort. but, even with that, extension on either end isn't particularly impressive


 I agree. But with some equalisation it breached far beyond its price point. Not to the champions tier anyway.


----------



## vapman

jasru said:


> I agree. But with some equalisation it breached far beyond its price point. Not to the champions tier anyway.


 
 I have nothing to add, the rx1 is perfect for certain situations


----------



## Sempenyi

grayson73 said:


> ClieOS, can you elaborate on why you put the AuGlamour RX-1 in Category 2?  What did you like about them and what music genres sound good with them?


 
 female vocal, or anything with less instrument.


----------



## tinkertailor

Anyone tried these?
  
 RY04 earbuds, almost 1000 reviews, 5 stars, a lot of Russians. (Communist plot??)
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY04-original-in-ear-Earphone-metal-manufacturer-15mm-music-Headphone-quality-sound-HIFI-headset-IE800-style/32655283684.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10065_10068_10000009_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_9999_10062_10056_10055_10037_10054_10059_10032_10099_10078_10079_10077_426_10103_10073_10102_10096_10052_10053_10107_10050_10106_10051-9999,searchweb201603_1,afswitch_3_afChannel,single_sort_0_default&btsid=9967054f-8b6e-4cc9-82dc-e3b9558a9f54


----------



## vapman

tinkertailor said:


> Anyone tried these?
> 
> RY04 earbuds, almost 1000 reviews, 5 stars, a lot of Russians. (Communist plot??)
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY04-original-in-ear-Earphone-metal-manufacturer-15mm-music-Headphone-quality-sound-HIFI-headset-IE800-style/32655283684.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10065_10068_10000009_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_9999_10062_10056_10055_10037_10054_10059_10032_10099_10078_10079_10077_426_10103_10073_10102_10096_10052_10053_10107_10050_10106_10051-9999,searchweb201603_1,afswitch_3_afChannel,single_sort_0_default&btsid=9967054f-8b6e-4cc9-82dc-e3b9558a9f54


 
 If the reviews are even half legit i'd try it. If all my time on the internet has taught me one thing, it's to listen to Russians on technology & audio matters.\
  
  
 edit: I actually have some of those shells the earbud uses, I bought it for a DIY driver. It is very good all around. I am a fan of it and have been experimenting with different drivers in it. Will definitely have to hear this one, I'll order one


----------



## Sempenyi

tinkertailor said:


> Anyone tried these?
> 
> RY04 earbuds, almost 1000 reviews, 5 stars, a lot of Russians. (Communist plot??)
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY04-original-in-ear-Earphone-metal-manufacturer-15mm-music-Headphone-quality-sound-HIFI-headset-IE800-style/32655283684.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10065_10068_10000009_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_9999_10062_10056_10055_10037_10054_10059_10032_10099_10078_10079_10077_426_10103_10073_10102_10096_10052_10053_10107_10050_10106_10051-9999,searchweb201603_1,afswitch_3_afChannel,single_sort_0_default&btsid=9967054f-8b6e-4cc9-82dc-e3b9558a9f54


 
@golov17  please enlight us


----------



## golov17

sempenyi said:


> @golov17
> please enlight us :atsmile:


 The first version, in fact, is not very good, has a delicate sound .. updated ver is lost somewhere on the way to me ..


----------



## luedriver

golov17 said:


> The first version, in fact, is not very good, has a delicate sound .. updated ver is lost somewhere on the way to me ..


 
 is RY4s related? or from the same company?


----------



## tinkertailor

golov17 said:


> The first version, in fact, is not very good, has a delicate sound .. updated ver is lost somewhere on the way to me ..


 
 Although its difficult to know how common it really is, reading through reviews on aliexpress (particularly the ry04 reviews on above link) it seemed a lot of packages had trouble making their way to Russian destinations.


----------



## vapman

willber said:


> If bass is important then there are better options, eg Qian39, TY Hi-Z 32, Sony E808+ (my favourite after lots of use/burn-in). All have good clarity and soundstage as well IMO.




Willber,i dont remember if you are a DIY guy or not. The e808+ is wonderful as is - i will leave the stock cable on my first ever set - but recabled it can truly shine. I am really glad the q39 and e808+ have become so well liked.


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> Willber,i dont remember if you are a DIY guy or not. The e808+ is wonderful as is - i will leave the stock cable on my first ever set - but recabled it can truly shine. I am really glad the q39 and e808+ have become so well liked.


 
  
 Doing that right now. It can also go really bad with the incorrect cables. Give me some time, I have/am ordering lots of different cables to test on my bunch of E808+s. It's taking little longer than expected as my son took away almost all my spare E808+ over Xmas, so I have to re-order. As you know, I already have a very well modded E808+ to benchmark against. Once I find the cable that matches that sound, I will post up that info. Then everyone can make their own "super" E808+ with very little added money!


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> Doing that right now. It can also go really bad with the incorrect cables. Give me some time, I have/am ordering lots of different cables to test on my bunch of E808+s. It's taking little longer than expected as my son took away almost all my spare E808+ over Xmas, so I have to re-order. As you know, I already have a very well modded E808+ to benchmark against. Once I find the cable that matches that sound, I will post up that info. Then everyone can make their own "super" E808+ with very little added money!


 
 You mean the one with the indonesian E888 style drivers? I ordered a bunch of those but they failed to deliver it. It ended up going thru some company in Kentucky that forwards Aliexpress stuff sometimes for me and they got my address wrong and it got returned to somewhere in California and is on its way back to China. Oh well. They offered to re-ship for free, but I took the refund instead...
  
 I have one set though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They are still in those shells like the Russian ones posted above. I think i sent you a link to those DIY shells
  
 You are talking about the Taobao pre recabled e808+, correct?


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> You are talking about the Taobao pre recabled e808+, correct?


 
  
 Yup, that's the one.


----------



## golov17

So good


----------



## purplesun

golov17 said:


> So good


 
  
 How can 1 person have so many earbuds, DAPs and headphone amps?
 Did Boris Yeltsin sign-over a large tract of untapped oil field to you in your younger days?


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> So good


 
 I am so jealous every time you post that DAP


----------



## golov17

purplesun said:


> How can 1 person have so many earbuds, DAPs and headphone amps?
> Did Boris Yeltsin sign-over a large tract of untapped oil field to you in your younger days?


 oh no, unfortunately, I'm just a mechanic with a monthly income 300 usd, lol


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> I am so jealous every time you post that DAP


 this is a very old dap, and recently I replaced it battery, but unfortunately injured his appearance


----------



## purplesun

golov17 said:


> oh no, unfortunately, I'm just a mechanic with a monthly income 300 usd, lol


 

 Yeah, I should have guessed that an oligarch never have such impeccable collection, and more likely be wearing wireless Beats of gold-titanium construction.


----------



## music4mhell

It's not money, it's the knowledge which gives us happiness..

in case of audio also it's applied... with lesser money we can get high quality sound...but with experience and knowledge...


----------



## Frederick Wang

Cannot find this RY04 on taobao, anyone knows its Chinese name?


----------



## AkashS04

No. I have only this Username and no other initials.


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> It's not money, it's the knowledge which gives us happiness..
> 
> in case of audio also it's applied... with lesser money we can get high quality sound...but with experience and knowledge...


 
 ...we can get nearly TOTL full setups - source and earbuds - (to each person's tastes) for under $100


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> ...we can get nearly TOTL full setups - source and earbuds - (to each person's tastes) for under $100


 

 Yeah, too much fun to be had in the $10 club; all the talk about Camping, Fairydust & Cygpheous just blows right by me! 
 I like IEMs & Cans too, but the value & quality of good old earbuds at the lower end is just ridiculous!


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> Yeah, too much fun to be had in the $10 club; all the talk about Camping, Fairydust & Cygpheous just blows right by me!
> I like IEMs & Cans too, but the value & quality of good old earbuds at the lower end is just ridiculous!


 
 You didn't make such a bad choice limiting yourself to $10, but you should consdier giving either Edimun v3 or Red De'mun a chance. They were good enough to make me uninterested in all my high end buds. It is actually pretty rare that i use my TY 650 now, even though it has near -Etymotic levels of detail.


----------



## abhijollyguy

So Red De'mun is the best choice out there out of all the earbuds which describes the below sound signature perfectly?
  


> Which earbud is neutral yet musical with a slight lift in bass region with no peaks and dips from mids to higher treble?


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> You didn't make such a bad choice limiting yourself to $10, but you should consdier giving either Edimun v3 or Red De'mun a chance. They were good enough to make me uninterested in all my high end buds. It is actually pretty rare that i use my TY 650 now, even though it has near -Etymotic levels of detail.


 

 Unfortunately for me, I have a big problem wearing MX500-shells for long duration, which basically rules out 80% earbuds available today. So am limited to mostly things like Qian39, E808+*, ES100, VXpro, RX1* & EO320* (any others?). Still not too bad a list compared what was available before turn of the decade. And, there's always IEMs when I feel money burning a hole in my pocket 
  
 * - I have these.
  
 EDIT:
 Just checked on Edimun & De'mun, they use SHE3800-shells which is halfway comfortable for me. Perhaps, something to try out after the E808+ project.


----------



## Sempenyi

abhijollyguy said:


> So Red De'mun is the best choice out there out of all the earbuds which describes the below sound signature perfectly?


 

 well red demun need a decent source to shine or mid will be muddy and veiled. with good source i kills most higher end earbuds.


----------



## Tympan

sempenyi said:


> well red demun need a decent source to shine or mid will be muddy and veiled. with good source i kills most higher end earbuds.


 

 even Campfreds?


----------



## vapman

sempenyi said:


> well red demun need a decent source to shine or mid will be muddy and veiled. with good source i kills most higher end earbuds.


 
 Agreed, either a good DAC or Amp (ideally both) make the best of it, it scales up very well, with a good amp it easily beats mx985 to my ears.
  
 never tried a campfred.... not sure if i will have the opportunity anytime soon.


----------



## tinkertailor

I find it amazing they can take a $7 bud and work some magic to make it better than an mx985 (which admittedly I've never heard, nor have any Indonesian bud). I would love to know what they do, and save myself around $70


----------



## abhijollyguy

sempenyi said:


> well red demun need a decent source to shine or mid will be muddy and veiled. with good source i kills most higher end earbuds.


 
  
 iBasso DX100 it is.


----------



## vapman

tinkertailor said:


> I find it amazing they can take a $7 bud and work some magic to make it better than an mx985 (which admittedly I've never heard, nor have any Indonesian bud). I would love to know what they do, and save myself around $70


 
 I kept my MX985 for months just to be sure it wasn't new toy syndrome or playing favorites. At the best, mx985 with on equal terms with Red De'mun with with less body to the sound.


----------



## SuperMAG

What about edimun v3. Which is better between red and v3. Which has better resolution, seperation, soundstage and bigger sounding.


----------



## vapman

supermag said:


> What about edimun v3. Which is better between red and v3. Which has better resolution, seperation, soundstage and bigger sounding.


 
 Red Demun wins on separation, soundstage. stage is more intimate on Red Demun but more focused too.
  
 edimun v3 has a more bigger sound but focuses on the treble and  bass over the mids whereas the Red Demun is Zen 2 levels of mid presence. 
  
 Separation is only going to be better on one or the other depending on your listening tastes. One is not easily recommended over the other because they are yin and yang. 
 They complement each other perfectly, ya


----------



## BloodyPenguin

My review of the *ELi Audio - Sabia V3* is up! 

 http://www.head-fi.org/products/eli-audio-sabia-v3-earbud/reviews/17769
  

  
 --


----------



## Fabi

It's freezing outside. At least I can enjoy these @BloodyPenguin 's reviews.


----------



## fairx

speaking of budget sound this is my ultimate setup at home. 4 dollar no name usb dac + o2 amp and ty 320 with thick donut spread halfway. The dac sucks while outputting tons of power and distort at high gain with O2 unless powered by wall plug. 

However after being tamed by o2 it spew out huge, open and natural sound without any peak but unimpressive unless paired with ty320 with thick donut parted like in the pic. This combination produce speaker like experience. Not to be used (heard) while laying down. Will cause irregular heart beat lol.


----------



## Joy Boy

music4mhell said:


> At $200 budget, you can go for Shozy Stardust or Cypherus Campfred.



Thanks for your answer. Unfortunately I think i'll stay away from campfred. In my opinion, they have quality controlled issues.
I've already tried 3 different campfred earbud (same model, same batch) and all of them is different in term of sound




bloodypenguin said:


> Whew!!!!  I JUST finished my review of seven TY Hi-Z Earbuds:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/831374/introduction-to-ty-hi-z-earbud-family-mega-review
> 
> ...



Wow, great job! Really love the review



music4mhell said:


> It's not money, it's the knowledge which gives us happiness..
> 
> in case of audio also it's applied... with lesser money we can get high quality sound...but with experience and knowledge...



In my term "Please your ears. Save your wallet" 



tinkertailor said:


> I find it amazing they can take a $7 bud and work some magic to make it better than an mx985 (which admittedly I've never heard, nor have any Indonesian bud). I would love to know what they do, and save myself around $70



What they did is not just recable or reterminate it, the also did some improvement on the driver. One of the DIY-ers (builder) said that even the different glue produced different sound



bloodypenguin said:


> My review of the *ELi Audio - Sabia V3* is up!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/eli-audio-sabia-v3-earbud/reviews/17769
> 
> ...



Once again, great review and comparison


----------



## AudioNewbi3

joy boy said:


> Thanks for your answer. Unfortunately I think i'll stay away from campfred. In my opinion, they have quality controlled issues.
> I've already tried 3 different campfred earbud (same model, same batch) and all of them is different in term of sound


 
 Campfred has QC issues? Now that is something new. Mind to further elaborate the situation?
 Perhaps the earbuds were at different stages of burning in process?


----------



## Danneq

joy boy said:


> Thanks for your answer. Unfortunately I think i'll stay away from campfred. In my opinion, they have quality controlled issues.
> I've already tried 3 different campfred earbud (same model, same batch) and all of them is different in term of sound


 
  


audionewbi3 said:


> Campfred has QC issues? Now that is something new. Mind to further elaborate the situation?
> Perhaps the earbuds were at different stages of burning in process?


 


 I also wonder. Since every CampFred is assembled and made by the same person, the risk of QC issues/different sound on different pairs should be very small. They do change with burn in, mainly the soundstage opens up after 100+ hours. Sources might play a part too.

 Did you try the 3 pairs at the same time, with the same source(s) and the same songs?

 In what way was there a difference in sound?

 I have read the impressions of CampFred from 4 different people and all are pretty close to my impression of my pair.

 If there will be no more CAX black (which I was thinking of buying a backup pair of - since they are so good that I will never feel the need of full size headphones) I might pick up a backup pair of CampFred, so then I can compare them.


----------



## rkw

rkw said:


> I came across 1More E1008 for $69.99 and decided I couldn't pass it up.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Xiaomi-1MORE-E1008-Dual-Driver-In-Ear-Earphone-Earpiece-Earbuds-Headset-for-Phone-Hi-Res-Audio/32777460024.html
> ($79.99 and store promotion $10 discount for $50 purchase)


 
  
 So I received it, and was completely blown away by the super premium packaging, like something you might expect from Apple. I have purchased a lot of earbuds over the years, but nothing remotely like this and completely unexpected for a $70 product.
  
 I haven't done much listening, but very favorable impressions straight out of the box.


----------



## Mommerman

before giving my 2 cent, please check them out, and give us an update.


----------



## chinmie

i've tested out the TY HI-Z 32,monk plus and the edifier H185. each have their strengths (TY has enormous thumping bass, monk has the most pleasant soundstage and non fatiguing sound, H185 has the clearest detail) and weaknesses (TY the bass makes long listening session fatiguing, monk has less bass impact and veiled details, H185 cables are thin and also has the least noise isolation) , but i favor the edifier the most

i am curious about the qian 39 and the auglamour rx1... how is it compared to the edifier? 

also any suggestion on a better earbud with the H185 characteristics? preferably with more better depth and soundstage


----------



## kfarndog

bloodypenguin said:


> --


 
 The all black looks very cool too.  Thanks for the review.


----------



## Joy Boy

audionewbi3 said:


> Campfred has QC issues? Now that is something new. Mind to further elaborate the situation?
> 
> Perhaps the earbuds were at different stages of burning in process?







danneq said:


> I also wonder. Since every CampFred is assembled and made by the same person, the risk of QC issues/different sound on different pairs should be very small. They do change with burn in, mainly the soundstage opens up after 100+ hours. Sources might play a part too.
> 
> 
> Did you try the 3 pairs at the same time, with the same source(s) and the same songs?
> ...



It not only me that feel the QC problem. Yes I tested it with same player and song. And some of my friends even tested it in local gathering with same source too.
They deinitely have great sound earbud. Even the amazing one that one of my friend had (special hand picked when he visited the shop, he's friend with the builder)
But the other has grainy sound. And one of them lack of clarity.
My other friends try 4 of it, 3 of them sound exactly same but 1 of it has grainy sound.

And sorry to say, the problem happen to some local DIY product too in my country (Indonesia)
Maybe that's why i never recommend them here if I found the QC problem (or they only produced limited line up). For me it's too suck if a bought exactly same earbud but others has better sound bud than mine.

But if you have an amazing one, you should be happy and keep it. Because what mattered is the sound. If they sound great, than it's enough.
And in my opinion, they definitely keep the quality better for international purchase. It looks like the problem occurs only for local buyer


----------



## chinmie

joy boy said:


> It not only me that feel the QC problem. Yes I tested it with same player and song. And some of my friends even tested it in local gathering with same source too.
> They deinitely have great sound earbud. Even the amazing one that one of my friend had (special hand picked when he visited the shop, he's friend with the builder)
> But the other has grainy sound. And one of them lack of clarity.
> My other friends try 4 of it, 3 of them sound exactly same but 1 of it has grainy sound.
> ...




what about the qc on edimun/red demun?


----------



## Joy Boy

chinmie said:


> what about the qc on edimun/red demun?



Haven't find it yet. The only thing that makes it sounds different is because you can order it with different connector. But for the exactly same product, i still haven't find any difference.
I've ever had 3 of them with different version and different connector. 
But i also have ever tried to compare it with my friends and my cousin edimun (same version and same connector, burn in over 50hrs), i can't find the difference.
And i've never heard any QC issue too from others


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Hmm, so I heard Red de'mun is better than Edimun v3 is that correct?

@vapman sir, I remember that you have both of them am I right to assume? 
  
 Thank-you


----------



## golov17

I think it's all about personal preference.. for me Edimun v.2 is more preferable than the v3, though the sound quality at the same level ..


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> Hmm, so I heard Red de'mun is better than Edimun v3 is that correct?
> 
> @vapman sir, I remember that you have both of them am I right to assume?
> 
> Thank-you


 
 subjective..... one is not really better than the other but red demun is more accurate whereas edimun is more fun? for my tastes, nothing beat red de'mun to me yet.


----------



## slim311

chinmie said:


> i've tested out the TY HI-Z 32,monk plus and the edifier H185. each have their strengths (TY has enormous thumping bass, monk has the most pleasant soundstage and non fatiguing sound, H185 has the clearest detail) and weaknesses (TY the bass makes long listening session fatiguing, monk has less bass impact and veiled details, H185 cables are thin and also has the least noise isolation) , but i favor the edifier the most
> 
> i am curious about the qian 39 and the auglamour rx1... how is it compared to the edifier?
> 
> also any suggestion on a better earbud with the H185 characteristics? preferably with more better depth and soundstage




I haven't heard RX1 or edifier so I can't speak to those, but to me, the Qian39 is comparable but not really similar to TY32; still v-shaped but not as low on the bass, not as extended on the highs, the Q39 sounds more closed in, and the vocals are more present, but I'm not sure if that's due to tuning or the more intimate soundstage.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> I think it's all about personal preference.. for me Edimun v.2 is more preferable than the v3, though the sound quality at the same level ..


 
  
  


vapman said:


> subjective..... one is not really better than the other but red demun is more accurate whereas edimun is more fun? for my tastes, nothing beat red de'mun to me yet.


 
 Thank-you for the information. 

 Was planning to save up for a Campfred, but what Joyboy and his mates experienced was more than enough to make me reconsider. 
 Guess, I will perhaps try my luck at a Red de'mun. Just wondering if they suitable for orchestral works.....


----------



## Tympan

joy boy said:


> It not only me that feel the QC problem. Yes I tested it with same player and song. And some of my friends even tested it in local gathering with same source too.
> They deinitely have great sound earbud. Even the amazing one that one of my friend had (special hand picked when he visited the shop, he's friend with the builder)
> But the other has grainy sound. And one of them lack of clarity.
> My other friends try 4 of it, 3 of them sound exactly same but 1 of it has grainy sound.
> ...


 
  
 My campfreds don't sound grainy at all but they did come across as a little dry at first (i was used to earphones that sound more fluid and have more echo going on). 
 So I was not impressed at first and it took them a few days to seduce me. They are not dry either, they just sound more controlled and relaxed than most, while being fairly balanced and extended.
 They've quickly become very special little buds to me and I'd be sad if something happened to them. I do recommend them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 PS: I now find them more versatile than any of these: TY650, K500, Zen 2, Zen 1, Shozy Cygnus, Seahf 400, 320, RX1, mojitos, and all VE models... Campfreds would be my first pick even though I do have a sweet spot for Zen 1 and Seahf 320 series


----------



## Danneq

joy boy said:


> It not only me that feel the QC problem. Yes I tested it with same player and song. And some of my friends even tested it in local gathering with same source too.
> They deinitely have great sound earbud. Even the amazing one that one of my friend had (special hand picked when he visited the shop, he's friend with the builder)
> But the other has grainy sound. And one of them lack of clarity.
> My other friends try 4 of it, 3 of them sound exactly same but 1 of it has grainy sound.
> ...


 


 I find that to be strange since the same person does everything. Why would he bother less with earbuds he sells to Indonesians than with earbuds he sells internationally? How much did CampFred cost in dollars for Indonesians before Cypherus started to sell them internationally?

 Perhaps the drivers had been damaged? I noticed that CampFred does not handle high volumes well. It sounds amazing with low or medium volume, but when you crank it very high it does not sound agreeable anymore. It doesn't really distort, but I get the impression that they work best at lower or medium volume.

 About Edimun V3, I have heard a pair with rhodium plug that had a slight volume imbalance where the left channel was slightly lower than the right. It was not by much but I am very sensitive to such things. My current pair with gold plug is perfectly balanced.


----------



## Danneq

tympan said:


> My campfreds don't sound grainy at all but they did come across as a little dry at first (i was used to earphones that sound more fluid and have more echo going on).
> So I was not impressed at first and it took them a few days to seduce me. They are not dry either, they just sound more controlled and relaxed than most, while being fairly balanced and extended.
> They've quickly become very special little buds to me and I'd be sad if something happened to them. I do recommend them
> 
> ...


 


 I agree with you and I could list all earbuds I have ever owned (probably 60-70 pairs). I prefer CampFred to everything except for CAX black. I still love my Blox TM7, but after 4 years they have finally been dethrones by two other earbuds...

 It seems like Shozy Stardust isn't overwhelming to some, but I will still buy it. I am a bit excited about ABnormal Diomnes and hope to be able to buy a pair soon.

 QC isn't always the best with smaller DIY boutiques, but I find the sound of the earbuds from tiny Indonesian brands to easily beat the current Chinese offerings and also vintage German (Sennheiser & AKG) and Japanese (Sony, Aiwa & Audio Technica) offerings.


----------



## Tympan

danneq said:


> I agree with you and I could list all earbuds I have ever owned (probably 60-70 pairs). I prefer CampFred to everything except for CAX black. I still love my Blox TM7, but after 4 years they have finally been dethrones by two other earbuds...
> 
> It seems like Shozy Stardust isn't overwhelming to some, but I will still buy it. I am a bit excited about ABnormal Diomnes and hope to be able to buy a pair soon.
> 
> QC isn't always the best with smaller DIY boutiques, but I find the sound of the earbuds from tiny Indonesian brands to easily beat the current Chinese offerings and also vintage German (Sennheiser & AKG) and Japanese (Sony, Aiwa & Audio Technica) offerings.


 

 you mean, your TM7 are getting dusty!?!.. maybe it's time to sell them to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .........


----------



## Tympan

danneq said:


> I noticed that CampFred does not handle high volumes well. It sounds amazing with low or medium volume, but when you crank it very high it does not sound agreeable anymore. It doesn't really distort, but I get the impression that they work best at lower or medium volume.


 
  
 Same, and it's been nice listening to music at safe volume ever since I got the Campfreds. 
 Also, I rediscovered my ipod shuffle first generation thx to Campfreds, listening to electronic music on this combo is so enjoyable, funny how different pairing yield unexpected results sometimes!


----------



## Danneq

tympan said:


> you mean, your TM7 are getting dusty!?!.. maybe it's time to sell them to me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Haha! Don't even try!

 I used to say that I wanted to be buried with my TM7, but now I want to be buried with my TM7, CampFred and CAX black.


----------



## Joy Boy

danneq said:


> I find that to be strange since the same person does everything. Why would he bother less with earbuds he sells to Indonesians than with earbuds he sells internationally? How much did CampFred cost in dollars for Indonesians before Cypherus started to sell them internationally?
> 
> 
> Perhaps the drivers had been damaged? I noticed that CampFred does not handle high volumes well. It sounds amazing with low or medium volume, but when you crank it very high it does not sound agreeable anymore. It doesn't really distort, but I get the impression that they work best at lower or medium volume.
> ...



That's what i feel. I got some distort feeling too in high volume. Maybe we push it too much.
I dont know about their policy, but found it uncomfortable. Maybe it's just my sound preference



tympan said:


> My campfreds don't sound grainy at all but they did come across as a little dry at first (i was used to earphones that sound more fluid and have more echo going on).
> So I was not impressed at first and it took them a few days to seduce me. They are not dry either, they just sound more controlled and relaxed than most, while being fairly balanced and extended.
> They've quickly become very special little buds to me and I'd be sad if something happened to them. I do recommend them
> PS: I now find them more versatile than any of these: TY650, K500, Zen 2, Zen 1, Shozy Cygnus, Seahf 400, 320, RX1, mojitos, and all VE models... Campfreds would be my first pick even though I do have a sweet spot for Zen 1 and Seahf 320 series



Like i said before, if you found it sounds incredible, then just keep it.
May be it's just not the "sound" that i'm searching for so i can't enjoy it.
Or maybe the way we compared it before that's wrong.
Of course i'm so glad if you got the great one. However, it's still a great DIY product 

*for sir Danneq, if you intend to sell your TM7, please contact me first, LOL 
And if you have interest in another indonesian earbud. I gladly recommend you earbud from ABnormal labs (diomnes/dietris) and Raid earbud by Laki audio. The last one is low budget bud, but it sounds greater than its price. The only problem is they usually produced their line up in very limited number. But it's very worth to try


----------



## Danneq

joy boy said:


> That's what i feel. I got some distort feeling too in high volume. Maybe we push it too much.
> I dont know about their policy, but found it uncomfortable. Maybe it's just my sound preference
> Like i said before, if you found it sounds incredible, then just keep it.
> May be it's just not the "sound" that i'm searching for so i can't enjoy it.
> ...


 


 I always listen at low or medium levels, so for me it isn't a problem. On my rockboxed DAP:s I usually listen at around -16 to -18 when outside (and at home or in a quiet environment around -20 to -22). I can go up to perhaps -12 before it's too loud for me with any earbud. I have not experienced that "distortion" with CampFred at the -12 volume in Rockbox. But a bit louder than that it can start to sound congested. It's not really a noise or anything. It's more like the soundstage collapses and everything flows together.
 So perhaps CampFred is more for relaxed listening at more moderate levels? It might be the way that the driver is tuned/modded that does not agree with too high volumes? 

 Anyway, the TM7 is staying with me! I might trade it for a pair of Aiwa HP-V9 in mint condition. But those are very hard to find and cost a lot. So I guess I'll stick with the TM7 until they (or I) die.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But hopefully Blox will release their new flagship for those who have not tried TM5 or TM7. I wonder if the next flagship will be TM9 or if they will use another naming scheme...

 Actually, I have already been in contact with ABnormal and will probably buy a pair of Diomnes. Hersang from ABnormal recommended both but thought that Diomnes might suit my preferences better. 
 I'll check out Laki Audio and the Raid earbud! Thanks for that!


----------



## WillTirta

rkw said:


> So I received it, and was completely blown away by the super premium packaging, like something you might expect from Apple. I have purchased a lot of earbuds over the years, but nothing remotely like this and completely unexpected for a $70 product.
> 
> I haven't done much listening, but very favorable impressions straight out of the box.



Ibelieve clieos also have it now..wonder where he put the 1008 earbud..consider to Buy it


----------



## music4mhell

willtirta said:


> rkw said:
> 
> 
> > So I received it, and was completely blown away by the super premium packaging, like something you might expect from Apple. I have purchased a lot of earbuds over the years, but nothing remotely like this and completely unexpected for a $70 product.
> ...


 
 He has put it below EO320 !


----------



## Tomasz2D

chinmie said:


> what about the qc on edimun/red demun?


 
 I have 3 sets of Red De'mun. After getting the first set I bought two more as a backup (in fact this was the first time in my life that I bought backup audio equipment). So pairs no. 2 & 3 are from another batch than pair no. 1.
 The build quality of all of them is exactly the same (built like a tank) and they all sound the same. The only difference between these two production batches is slight difference in hue of red shell's color - they are hand-painted.


----------



## Joy Boy

danneq said:


> I always listen at low or medium levels, so for me it isn't a problem. On my rockboxed DAP:s I usually listen at around -16 to -18 when outside (and at home or in a quiet environment around -20 to -22). I can go up to perhaps -12 before it's too loud for me with any earbud. I have not experienced that "distortion" with CampFred at the -12 volume in Rockbox. But a bit louder than that it can start to sound congested. It's not really a noise or anything. It's more like the soundstage collapses and everything flows together.
> 
> So perhaps CampFred is more for relaxed listening at more moderate levels? It might be the way that the driver is tuned/modded that does not agree with too high volumes?
> 
> ...



I agree if it maybe for relaxed listening. And as i remember, i did compared and tried it with my playlist (varian sub-metal genres) and i usually hear it with high volume.

Wow, i can't wait to hear your first impression of it. In mw opinion, it stand toe to toe with red demun and edimun. The dipios even better. Sadly they only produced 2 of it due to lack of driver part


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> I have 3 sets of Red De'mun. After getting the first set I bought two more as a backup (in fact this was the first time in my life that I bought backup audio equipment). So pairs no. 2 & 3 are from another batch than pair no. 1.
> The build quality of all of them is exactly the same (built like a tank) and they all sound the same. The only difference between these two production batches is slight difference in hue of red shell's color - they are hand-painted.


 


 I recently bought 5 pairs of Qian39 for backup and gifts for friends. Then I realized that I like that Monk+ and TY HiZ HP32 (version 1) much better.
 Good thing that I only paid around $28 for 5 pairs plus shipping...


----------



## Danneq

joy boy said:


> Wow, i can't wait to hear your first impression of it. In mw opinion, it stand toe to toe with red demun and edimun. The dipios even better. Sadly they only produced 2 of it due to lack of driver part


 

 Apparently production of the new batch of Diomnes has been pushed back a week since there has been a shipping problem with the cables.

 I should receive it within 1 week after they have sent it since it is EMS. Hopefully I will have it in the first or second week in February.

 And the price is much higher than Edimun and Red De'mun. Even more than CampFred since I chose the best cable and plug (Eidolic)...


----------



## chaiyuta

Where is the link to buy Edimun, Diomnes and Red De'mun? and Where is their specification? I read a lot of comments talking about them. So curious.


----------



## WillTirta

music4mhell said:


> He has put it below EO320 !



I cannot find the new listing..he mention it in this post?


----------



## Joy Boy

chaiyuta said:


> Where is the link to buy Edimun, Diomnes and Red De'mun? and Where is their specification? I read a lot of comments talking about them. So curious.



Edimun: https://www.facebook.com/bengkelmacro/

Red Demun: https://www.facebook.com/demuncustomcable/

Diomnes: https://www.facebook.com/abnormalsoundlabs/

Raid:
https://www.facebook.com/LAKI_Audio-GEN-1745156262415073/

Elibuds Sabia: https://www.facebook.com/EliAudioIndonesia/


----------



## Danneq

chaiyuta said:


> Where is the link to buy Edimun, Diomnes and Red De'mun? and Where is their specification? I read a lot of comments talking about them. So curious.


 


 Since all of them are small DIY companies, the easiest way is to contact them on their Facebook page (if you have got Facebook).

 Bengkel Macro (Edimun V3):
https://www.facebook.com/bengkelmacro/

 They also have their own homepage:
http://bengkelmacro.com/


 About Red De'mun and Diomnes I have only seen contact info on Facebook...

 De'mun (Red De'mun):
https://www.facebook.com/demuncustomcable/


 ABnormal (Diomnes):
https://www.facebook.com/abnormalsoundlabs/


 For those interested in Cypherus earbuds (QFred and CampFred) here's the e-mail: cypherusaudio@gmail.com



 EDIT:

 A thread about Edimun and Red De'mun:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/811150/demun-bengkel-macro


 And Cypherus earbuds:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/826036/cypherus-audio-products-discussion-thread-campfred-earbuds-qfred-earbuds-and-cax-golden-reference


----------



## vapman

chaiyuta said:


> Where is the link to buy Edimun, Diomnes and Red De'mun? and Where is their specification? I read a lot of comments talking about them. So curious.


 
 Edimun and Red Demun share the same specification as Edifier H180 in everything except cable, and some mods done to the driver. I can't speak to the rest. I am so happy with my Edimun V3 and Red De'mun I find it hard to want much more. I had several "Champions" ranked earbuds and prefer my collection in every way so the other DIY buds are gonna need some really good reviews for me to spend more $ on anything but budget buds these days.
  
  
 .... watch me get a CAX Black in a month


----------



## AkashS04

What earbuds they are?


----------



## vapman

Hey can anyone share thoughts on the Yinman earbuds? I love my Yinman 150 so much but I rarely use them because they are mini Red Demuns to my ears, so i will listen for a while and then switch to Demun... I am dying to know about the 500's. Wishing ClieOS still posted mini reviews just about now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I'm also VERY interested to hear about E808+ recables if anyone had any


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Sir @Danneq how did you contact ABnormal? I FB messaged him and no reply =(


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> Sir @Danneq how did you contact ABnormal? I FB messaged him and no reply =(


 


 Yeah, Facebook. But it might take a day or so before they reply. And there is a delay with the shipment of cables they need for Diomnes so they would not accept my order just yet.


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> Sir @Danneq how did you contact ABnormal? I FB messaged him and no reply =(


 
 I wonder if it's partially persistence and luck. I didn't get any reply from de'mun until my third message to them (about 2.5 weeks from first message until mr Kandela emailed me back


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, my 1More E320 has arrived here in the US, but I'm 2.5 days away from buyer protection lapsing as it was an 11.11 order.  At this point I really expect I'll be asking for a refund from Aliexpress due to the long wait, but there's a chance I'll have it before time is up.  After two months, I'm not even really curious how they sound anymore in all honestly, but I'll see how it goes.
  
 Also @vapman I ordered two more E808+ and will see if I also have the EQ issue pertaining to bass my first one has.  I'll probably stick the original with a gaming console as it does have a very enjoyable sound even via the headphone jack of a controller.


----------



## purplesun

> Originally Posted by *vapman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I'm also VERY interested to hear about E808+ recables if anyone had any


 
  
 Original cable is 14-strand copper which, I reckon, makes it about 30AWG.
  
 I tried an 8-way copper cable with big gauge (not sure the AWG) and the bass became a monster. Surprisingly accurate but killed all the mids. This must be what you hear when you EQ up the E808+ bass. Also tried a 25-AWG, silver-plated copper. The bass bump was quite noticeable, but no where near the the monster bass in the 8-way. Treble became harsh and prickly, I guess it's probably the silver doing that. Few more cables in hand, and receiving more to test. But thanks to my son "stealing" most of my spare E808+, it will be slow going until I get a new batch of them.


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> Well, my 1More E320 has arrived here in the US, but I'm 2.5 days away from buyer protection lapsing as it was an 11.11 order.  At this point I really expect I'll be asking for a refund from Aliexpress due to the long wait, but there's a chance I'll have it before time is up.  After two months, I'm not even really curious how they sound anymore in all honestly, but I'll see how it goes.
> 
> Also @vapman I ordered two more E808+ and will see if I also have the EQ issue pertaining to bass my first one has.  I'll probably stick the original with a gaming console as it does have a very enjoyable sound even via the headphone jack of a controller.


 
 Are you also using yours with the PS4? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That's my setup! (I have mics permanently muted. I have been gaming since the NES and I don't need to hear the people I'm playing with. Playing with them is bad enough. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## Saoshyant

Yep @vapman Final Fantasy 15 sounded quite good with them.  Also, I will have an entry balanced dap for you whenever Hifiman sends back my Supermini.  Should give you something to play with if you want to start testing balanced recables.


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> Yep @vapman Final Fantasy 15 sounded quite good with them.  Also, I will have an entry balanced dap for you whenever Hifiman sends back my Supermini.  Should give you something to play with if you want to start testing balanced recables.


 
 I'm PMing you my PSN name. 
  
  


purplesun said:


> Original cable is 14-strand copper which, I reckon, makes it about 30AWG.
> 
> I tried an 8-way copper cable with big gauge (not sure the AWG) and the bass became a monster. Surprisingly accurate but killed all the mids. This must be what you hear when you EQ up the E808+ bass. Also tried a 25-AWG, silver-plated copper. The bass bump was quite noticeable, but no where near the the monster bass in the 8-way. Treble became harsh and prickly, I guess it's probably the silver doing that. Few more cables in hand, and receiving more to test. But thanks to my son "stealing" most of my spare E808+, it will be slow going until I get a new batch of them.


 
  
 Yeah that sounds like silver for sure. I wonder why the mids went away but the bass went up. I thought it barely had any mids as it is?!
  
 Well, at least you know your son has good taste, and that's important for any parent to know, isn't it?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Is it hard to recabled a Sony MDR E808+? (How hard is it to open the shell)

 If it is not, I may get 2 to recable along with my Zhisan purchase on Taobao.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Hey can anyone share thoughts on the Yinman earbuds? I love my Yinman 150 so much but I rarely use them because they are mini Red Demuns to my ears, so i will listen for a while and then switch to Demun... I am dying to know about the 500's. Wishing ClieOS still posted mini reviews just about now
> 
> I'm also VERY interested to hear about E808+ recables if anyone had any


Yinman on custom house now, recabled 808+ very nice


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> Yinman on custom house now, recabled 808+ very nice


 
 Cool, Doro 
  
How are mids after recable? For purplesun the mids were less after recable but bass greater. Same for you?
  
@AudioNewbi3 unless you don't have any e808+ get them


----------



## luckyeights

So how does the E808+ compare to the Qian 39?


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Cool, Doro [COLOR=333333][/COLOR]
> 
> [COLOR=333333]How are mids after recable? For purplesun the mids were less after recable but bass greater. Same for you?[/COLOR]
> 
> ...


 I not listened to them with stock cables, only recabled, mids are recessed, and they don't like high gain, highs grainy, but not scary


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> I not listened to them with stock cables, only recabled, mids are recessed, and they don't like high gain, highs grainy, but not scary


 
 Hmm, sounds like with stock cable


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Hmm, sounds like with stock cable


sub bass good ☺


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> sub bass good ☺


 
 agreed, 808+ is one of my favorites for anything ☺


----------



## Frederick Wang

to @AudioNewbi3
easy to recable, but be very careful when you push the shell back together. the shape is irregular


----------



## golov17

Be careful when disassembling: they have no glue at all, and breaks down at the opening of separately: the membrane with a coil, body with magnet and the front plastic cover ..


----------



## purplesun

audionewbi3 said:


> Is it hard to recabled a Sony MDR E808+? (How hard is it to open the shell)
> 
> If it is not, I may get 2 to recable along with my Zhisan purchase on Taobao.


 
 Hardly any glue used by the factory. What I do is, first, try to rotate the front cover (it won't) by twisting with thumb & index; this should loosen the glue. Then pry open the cover with thumb, while using index to keep the opening as small as possible. Lastly, insert a toothpick behind the driver to gently push out the driver/cover, while feeding the wire through at the same time. Be careful to keep the entire driver/cover assembly together, I masking tape them to keep them together until re-assembly.
  


golov17 said:


> I not listened to them with stock cables, only recabled, mids are recessed, and they don't like high gain, highs grainy, but not scary


 
 I have used my first E808+ for, I estimate, easily over 300 hours. The v-shape sound will flatten slightly with lots of use, and will get warmer. And there will be less grainy/splashy highs as well. My second E808+ I am using (about less than 200 hours) sounds thinner, grainy/splashy highs & bigger mid-bass hump. About the same sound character as my first one at this point of usage.
  


vapman said:


> Hmm, sounds like with stock cable


 
 I am guessing 18-strand, 0.05mm/0.06mm diameter copper wire is probably the best bet for improving the sound without exaggerating the v-shape too much. That will be my next test, once I get the things in. BTW, cable route hole is 1.65mm.
  


golov17 said:


> Be careful when disassembling: they have no glue at all, and breaks down at the opening of separately: the membrane with a coil, body with magnet and the front plastic cover ..


 
 Completely agree! Have to be very careful not to tear away the ultra-thin voice coil wires, or bye-bye $3.86. Best to have a few spares around, just in case.
  
 EDIT:
 Is @ozkan around the forums? Not played with the vent foams yet, but it affects the sound heck of a lot. IIRC, @ozkan was the master of vent-related mods. Anyone tried messing with the vent foams yet?


----------



## vapman

I have not seen @ozkan  in a long time . Like Tomaz said, people start disappearing when they're finally happy with their buds. He's probably too busy rocking out with his blutac monk and she3800 
  
 I have some Litz wire 175/46 and some Litz wire 30/46, they have lots of individually stranded AWG 46 wires inside. I recabled a HPM-62 with it and still didn't love it (I think my HPM 62 are fakes) but it opened up the sound a lot. Treble energy got huge though. Not sure what to put it on next but i have to get better at cable  braiding first.


----------



## purplesun

Am not a fan of Litz cables. I always feel there's too much trade-off between conductor cross-sectional area versus insulator cross-sectional area. Am afraid I am very old school when it come hifi cables; only the fattest solid copper core that's about as thick & flexible as a walking stick will do! Unfortunately, that won't be too convenient for earbud listening though


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> Am not a fan of Litz cables. I always feel there's too much trade-off between conductor cross-sectional area versus insulator cross-sectional area. Am afraid I am very old school when it come hifi cables; only the fattest solid copper core that's about as thick & flexible as a walking stick will do! Unfortunately, that won't be too convenient for earbud listening though


 
 Yeah, I am finding the same as you pretty much, except now I am stuck with about 300 feet of it total. Oh well... was only like $30 for all of it.
  
 I too prefer the biggest pure copper wire I can get, but the only other stuff I have is 16awg I used on my home stereo and car. So..... not exactly what you want for earbuds...


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> Yeah, I am finding the same as you pretty much, except now I am stuck with about 300 feet of it total. Oh well... was only like $30 for all of it.


 
 Build a tower mast in your backyard and start a new hobby in HF/VHF comms. Problem solved!


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> Build a tower mast in your backyard and start a new hobby in HF/VHF comms. Problem solved!


 
 "How did you get started on ham radio?" "I bought 300 feet of cable for audio without knowing how it sounded."


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

How much does the demun cost in USD and what is the ship time?


----------



## golov17

midnightempest said:


> How much does the demun cost in USD and what is the ship time?


 http://bengkelmacro.com/v2/product/edifier-h180-himod-v3-oyaide-rho/


----------



## chaiyuta

I just look up Earbud round-up Lite Link. It noted that it will no longer updated and will be deleted by the end of Q1 2017. What happened?


----------



## abhijollyguy

Earbud with deep bass without compromise on mids, treble, instrument separation and soundstage?


----------



## chaiyuta

Could anyone provide me the original Meizu EP21HD link at aliexpress? It seem my seller has already not sold it.


----------



## golov17

chaiyuta said:


> I just look up Earbud round-up Lite Link. It noted that it will no longer updated and will be deleted by the end of Q1 2017. What happened?


 too zealous criticism, let them make their ratings, lolz


----------



## Spider fan

chaiyuta said:


> I just look up Earbud round-up Lite Link. It noted that it will no longer updated and will be deleted by the end of Q1 2017. What happened?


 

 I think he is tired of getting asked twice a week how he could rank the RX1 so high.


----------



## Danneq

Well, all of us who have tried a lot of earbuds should put together our own lists.








 And put RX-1 at the top just to irritate those people...   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







  


Spoiler: My list



1. AuGlamour RX-1
 2. Cypherus CAX Black Edition
 3. Cypherus CampFred
 4. Blox TM7
 5. Cypherus QFred
 6. Sennheiser OMX980/MX985
 7. Aiwa HP-V99
 8. Sony MDR-E252
 9. TY Hi-Z HP-650
 10. VE Zen 1
 11. Edimun V3
 12. Red De'mun
 13. Rose Mojito (too sharp sounding to end up higher in the list)
 14. K's 500 ohm earbuds  (too sharp sounding to end up higher in the list)
 15. Sony MDR-E282


----------



## rkw

abhijollyguy said:


> Earbud with deep bass without compromise on mids, treble, instrument separation and soundstage?


 
 Doesn't exist. There is only "less compromise".


----------



## Sound Eq

is the Xiaomi 1MORE E1008 Dual Driver a safe choice for someone who likes sold bass, good mids that are not recessed and no harshness in highs
  
 this will be my first earbud


----------



## haiku

sound eq said:


> is the Xiaomi 1MORE E1008 Dual Driver a safe choice for someone who likes sold bass, good mids that are not recessed and no harshness in highs


 
 Simple answer: No.


----------



## abhijollyguy

rkw said:


> Doesn't exist. There is only "less compromise".


----------



## Sound Eq

haiku said:


> Simple answer: No.


 
 oh so which then will fit the bill


----------



## JASru

chaiyuta said:


> I just look up Earbud round-up Lite Link. It noted that it will no longer updated and will be deleted by the end of Q1 2017. What happened?


 
 Well, damn. Haven't looked at it for a while. 

 I will really miss the list. I wonder why was this decision taken. It was really helpfull for newcomers.


----------



## ClieOS

There is always my plan to stop the list at some point. For those who can recall, it was completely removed sometime ago, but eventually reinstated as the lite version on popular demand, but that was never meant to be there forever.
  
 The reasons are two folds: First, I don't have the time to maintain a public ranking anymore. In fact, I don't have enough time to listen to any headphone at it is. So whatever time I can spare, it is better served for enjoying music rather than ranking which is better than what. That's also why I posted much much less than I used to in the forum. Secondly, the original intention of the list is to inspire more people to try earbud in a time when no such list is available anywhere and earbuds as a type of headphone was heading downhill in its popularity. For most part, that purpose has been achieved. But over the year, it seems more and more people begins to take the ranking too much on its face value and forget that it is just one person's opinion based on one person's listening preference. The fun and adventure that should have encouraged a person to experience new sound has somehow turned into a blind chase of ranking, as if for many, getting the next 'best' thing is more important than getting the right sound signature, and reading your next 'upgrade' out of a list will somehow be better than doing proper research. - I have been in Head-fi for over a decade and has yet to find an easy way that will turn a typical consumer with bad headphone to an audiophile with a dream rig without making mistakes or wasting time and money in between. The best part for me being a Head-fier is that I get to enjoy the process and constantly know that it is not about the 'absolute best' headphone, but rather being amazed by the wider world out there. That is the beauty for me. On that note, I don't want to see the list itself getting mistakenly interpreted as some kind of 'quick fix' for what should have been a long quest - and it is better not to have the list in such case.


----------



## JASru

clieos said:


> There is always my plan to stop the list at some point. For those who can recall, it was completely removed sometime ago, but eventually reinstated as the lite version on popular demand, but that was never meant to be there forever.
> 
> The reasons are two folds: First, I don't have the time to maintain a public ranking anymore. In fact, I don't have enough to listen to any headphone at it is. So whatever time I can spare, it is better served for enjoying music rather than ranking which is better than what. That's also why I posted much much less than I used to in the forum. Secondly, the original intention of the list is to inspire more people to try earbud in a time when no such list is available anywhere and earbuds as type of headphone was heading downhill in its popularity. For most part, that purpose has been achieved. But over the year, it seems more and more people begins to take the ranking too much on its surface value and forget that it is just one person's opinion based on one person's listening preference. The fun and adventure that should have encouraged a person to experience new sound has somehow turned into a blind chase of ranking, as if for many, getting the next 'best' thing is more important than getting the right sound signature, and reading your next 'upgrade' out of a list will somehow be better than doing proper research. - I have been in Head-fi for over a decade and has yet to find an easy way that will turn a typical consumer with bad headphone to an audiophile with a dream rig without making mistakes or wasting time and money in between. The best part for me being a Head-fier is that I get to enjoy the process and constantly know that it is not about the 'absolute best' headphone, but rather being amazed by the wider world out there. That is the beauty for me. On that note, I don't want to see the list itself getting mistakenly interpreted as some kind of 'quick fix' for what should have been a long quest - and it is better not to have the list in such case.


 
 Anyway thank you for your list. I do remeber the version that had descriptions and it was a great asset to me as a beginner. 

 First it gave an idea of a range. I never could imagine such a variety in sound quality, price and build.
 Second it gave me the confidence that most of the buds out there are at its worst mediocre but not straight bad. That helped to evade the fear of mistake.
 Third the descriptions really helped me with getting initial variety of signatures that helps me even now. RX-1 is still my lovely companion.

 I do understand that getting your own setup is a journey, but receiving some guidance was really nice. 
 Thank you again!

 p.s. Rose 64 was a pre-production that never made it to the series, right? =/


----------



## Joy Boy

audionewbi3 said:


> Sir @Danneq
> how did you contact ABnormal? I FB messaged him and no reply =(



Try to contact them via email: 
hersang35263@gmail.com


----------



## Luan Dee

clieos said:


> There is always my plan to stop the list at some point. For those who can recall, it was completely removed sometime ago, but eventually reinstated as the lite version on popular demand, but that was never meant to be there forever.....


 
  
 I completely understand your decision on this. It has always been a pleasure reading and going back multiple times through your list since you've put it up, especially the full one. It has helped me a lot in hunting down and choosing which buds to focus on acquiring given the limitations in availability and budget at my end - this, together with countless other reviews in this thread. It's beyond me why other visitors had that kind of assumption and attitude you stated above (some even pushing you to change the order of the list!) even if it's obviously one person's PERSONAL ranking.
  
 I still hope that one day, you'll change your mind and have this list available somewhere in the interwebs, no pressure to update, no responsibilities tied to it - because I'm pretty sure, this is one legacy that will be appreciated by anyone in the years (or even decades) to come since it's very rare to find someone who has this big of a collection with very wide listening preference/experience and more importantly...willing to list down, rank and describe each of the earbuds in the arsenal. Thank you for having it and sharing with others


----------



## ClieOS

jasru said:


> p.s. Rose 64 was a pre-production that never made it to the series, right? =/


 
  
 It was supposed to be a cheap and short production run model intended as sort of a semi-gift to Rose's customer. I actually got mine for free with Masya, then it disappeared from Rose's Taobao store which I assumed they had sent all of them away for good.
  


luan dee said:


> .... I still hope that one day, you'll change your mind and have this list available somewhere in the interwebs, no pressure to update, no responsibilities tied to it - because I'm pretty sure, this is one legacy that will be appreciated by anyone in the years (or even decades) to come since it's very rare to find someone who has this big of a collection with very wide listening preference/experience and more importantly...willing to list down, rank and describe each of the earbuds in the arsenal. Thank you for having it and sharing with others


 
  
 There is enough people in the forum now actively reviewing and discussing earbuds that I don't think a centralized list is essential anymore. Information now comes much easier than when I started this list back in 2009, but hopefully not too easily.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> There is enough people in the forum now actively reviewing and discussing earbuds that I don't think a centralized list is essential anymore. Information now comes much easier than when I started this list back in 2009, but hopefully not too easily.


 
  
 This is like the Mitsurugi Ryu of Rurouni Kenshin (if you know what I mean) where only Kenshin and his master or Shishou knows every technique of the style and plan to bring it to thier grave hahaha.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

joy boy said:


> Try to contact them via email:
> hersang35263@gmail.com


 
 Thanks! He justr replied me on FB, but the prices are beyond me now.....with USD rising and the MYR dropping.......


----------



## headjelly

audionewbi3 said:


> Thanks! He justr replied me on FB, but the prices are beyond me now.....with USD rising and the MYR dropping.......


 
  
 What are the prices?


----------



## fairx

Wow qian39 is made for Japanese style recordings / mastering. From simple track to complex passage qian39 never break a sweat. I finally can understand what the fuss with Japanese style mastering is


----------



## Saoshyant

@ClieOS @JASru It's a shame the Rose 64 never hit production.  I always intended to buy it when I placed my first Taobao order to the US, but by the time I really was going to put together my shopping list, I had noticed it was gone.  I really was curious how well they'd do with a budget earbud as the two earbuds I have I find phenomenal in their own right, and one of them it currently my top earbud pick.  I still need to put together a shopping list and eventually contact Mister Tao so I can give that route a try.
  
 I also want to thank you for the earbud list and the time and energy you put into it as it gave me a reference point of what might be a good earbud to try out, and just hope from that point that it suits my tastes.  Musically, I have enough variation in what I listen to that most any sound signature can find a place in some of my music, if not most, so at least nothing would ever be a complete waste unless I just didn't like the sound/fit/etc.
  
 Was also curious, has anyone given https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/100-New-Arrival-In-ear-Earphones-Flat-Head-Plug-DIY-Earphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds-DJ-Earbuds/1727211_32759573651.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.vlBE2P a try?  Another MX500 DIY earbud costing $13.  The cable is aesthetically pleasing at least, and it claims heavy bass, but so does just about everything on the market.


----------



## luckyeights

Hey all just fyi on the qian 39 earbuds.   I only use mine with donuts.  When i first got them i tried them with full foams and they were too boomy and and highs were lacking.  I immediately put donuts on and have not looked back since.
  
 The qian 39 has a full open grill over the driver so these buds really really benefit having a donut on them.


----------



## rockingthearies

fairx said:


> Wow qian39 is made for Japanese style recordings / mastering. From simple track to complex passage qian39 never break a sweat. I finally can understand what the fuss with Japanese style mastering is


 wow! Ling Tosite Sigure, perhaps I will get a qian39 too if it can resolves all the layerings in japanese recordings especially on LTS songs I will be very amazed. Is it a mx500 housing becaude those housing do hurt my ears.


----------



## Saoshyant

rockingthearies said:


> wow! Ling Tosite Sigure, perhaps I will get a qian39 too if it can resolves all the layerings in japanese recordings especially on LTS songs I will be very amazed. Is it a mx500 housing becaude those housing do hurt my ears.


 
  
 The Qian39 doens't use an MX500 housing, but the same housing as Hisoundaudio HSA-E351 unless I'm mistaken.  They look identical to me at least.


----------



## rkw

sound eq said:


> is the Xiaomi 1MORE E1008 Dual Driver a safe choice for someone who likes sold bass, good mids that are not recessed and no harshness in highs


 
 Everything except solid bass. That's an issue for earbuds in general.


----------



## Sound Eq

rkw said:


> Everything except solid bass. That's an issue for earbuds in general.


 
 so earbuds generally are they anemic in bass ?
  
 i thought that there is an all agreed on flagship earbud for bass lovers


----------



## fr00tl00p

Hey, 
 I have the Monk+ and like to switch up foams (donut, thick and normal) from the expansion pack frequently. My problem is that they keep ripping and I don't want to always have to buy a new expansion pack.
 Any recommendations on foams that are just like the ones from the exp pack or a good alternative?
 Thanks a lot


----------



## AkashS04

Quote:


luckyeights said:


> Hey all just fyi on the qian 39 earbuds.   I only use mine with donuts.  When i first got them i tried them with full foams and they were too boomy and and highs were lacking.  I immediately put donuts on and have not looked back since.
> 
> The qian 39 has a full open grill over the driver so these buds really really benefit having a donut on them.


 
  
 You mean Qian39 is too Boomy with Default Earcovers which comes with the Earbuds?


----------



## rkw

sound eq said:


> so earbuds generally are they anemic in bass ?
> 
> i thought that there is an all agreed on flagship earbud for bass lovers


 
 "earbud" and "bass lover" is an oxymoron. It is a fundamental technical issue with small driver combined with no seal (unlike in-ear).


----------



## AudioNewbi3

headjelly said:


> What are the prices?


 
  
 With the permission from ABnormal Labs I quote his reply:

  


> The Diomnes is cost $70 for std version. For upgraded version are $100 and $165 for lv1 and lv2 respectively.


----------



## AkashS04

The thing is that while In-Ear earphones create good seal and you feel good Bass, he reality is that Eabuds has bigger driver size so actually they have better Bass. It is only that we can realise that only when we press the earbud a little so they go little more inside the ear but still not in ear type.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Noob Question: Does Volume play any role in the Burn-In Process ? Just receive my Qian39, How long should I let it burn in?


----------



## fairx

rockingthearies said:


> wow! Ling Tosite Sigure, perhaps I will get a qian39 too if it can resolves all the layerings in japanese recordings especially on LTS songs I will be very amazed. Is it a mx500 housing becaude those housing do hurt my ears.


 
 the housing is very comfortable. almost the same as philips she3800 and edifier housing. the music not changing much when positioned in ear unlike mx500 style.
  
 IMO qian39 can handle more layering than my tomahawk! its like looking at pro tools and listen to each individual instrument track. with my unit that is, I don't have 2nd qian on me so I can't be sure of each build consistencies.


----------



## music4mhell

midnightempest said:


> Noob Question: Does Volume play any role in the Burn-In Process ? Just receive my Qian39, How long should I let it burn in?


Please burn in at below average volume...else it may damage the driver..

20% less volume than the volume you listen generally


----------



## ryanjsoo

Pretty common recommendation, but for good reason, Hiegi donut foams are pretty great and don't tear as frequently due to their larger openings. A pack of 10 is $3.90 from penon.


----------



## Sound Eq

rkw said:


> "earbud" and "bass lover" is an oxymoron. It is a fundamental technical issue with small driver combined with no seal (unlike in-ear).


 
 then how come i read some say their earbuds have great bass


----------



## ForceMajeure

sound eq said:


> then how come i read some say their earbuds have great bass


 
 It's all relative, some have more bass than others, but it won't have the same punch as a sealed iem known to have good bass.
  
 Some earbuds are pleasant enough though and have enough bass to compensate for the usual tininess sound that buds were known to have. But again everyone ears differently for some it might be good enough to enjoy the music for others it still might not be good enough. Your best shot is to buy a known bud as reference point like the monk plus. From there it will be easier to assess people's impressions.


----------



## rkw

sound eq said:


> then how come i read some say their earbuds have great bass


 
 Well, I would be interested myself if that is the case. Which ones have you seen described that way?
  
 Everything's relative and I would guess that they mean compared to other earbuds. It's hard to imagine that statement when comparing to in-ear or regular headphones.


----------



## base08

danneq said:


> Well, all of us who have tried a lot of earbuds should put together our own lists.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 But jokes aside where would you rank RX-1?


----------



## Danneq

midnightempest said:


> Noob Question: Does Volume play any role in the Burn-In Process ? Just receive my Qian39, How long should I let it burn in?


 

 I usually do not burn in earbuds and just start using them right away. They have not been damaged by using my normal listening volume (which is not very loud). Lately I have toyed with burning in earbuds and I have done it at around the same volume I use outside (around -18 on DAPs with Rockbox). I haven't noticed any problems at all.
 As long as you do not blast full volume it should be okay. Just normal listening volume (or slightly below or above).

 I read that some prefer using pink noise for burning in. But personally I think music should work the best.


----------



## Danneq

base08 said:


> But jokes aside where would you rank RX-1?


 

 Slightly lower than ClieOS, but that's mainly because I normally do not care much for midcentric earbuds. Cypherus QFred are the only midcentric earbuds that really "wow" me, and that was after burn in and when I discovered that they work well with some music and less well with other genres.

 Still RX-1 can compete with most earbuds priced around $40-50. If you use rubber rings and get a better seal bass improves. The deal breaker for me was that the soundstage was just too small and intimate. A big soundstage that is both wide and deep with an overall airy sound is what I hope to find in a pair of earbuds.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

After my shipment seems to have been lost for about a month, I just got notification that tomorrow I should be getting:

*- Boarseman MX98s*

*- Qian 39*

*- K's 64ohm*
  
  
 I'm looking forward to finally getting a chance to listen to these all.  Not sure if I will be doing a full review of any of these earbuds, but I will share some thoughts when I have a chance.
  
 --


----------



## rkw

base08 said:


> But jokes aside where would you rank RX-1?


 
 Speaking for myself... I just got an RX-1 last week. I only have a few other earbuds to compare (PK2, Zen 2, E1008). I find the RX-1 has impressive detail but the sound is way too bright for me. I listen mostly to classical. Solo violin can sound shrill and grating. Bass is very deficient and does not convey the weight of a symphony orchestra. This is in comparison to my other earbuds. My conclusion is that the RX-1 is unsuitable for classical music.


----------



## 1yaiba

I'm a long time lurker, and have to say - thanks a bunch for this thread! IEMs don't work for me at all, so good earbuds are pretty much a miracle if I want anything compact.
  
 That said, I nabbed an "updated" version of FAAEAL 64ohm for $15 w/tin box and some pads and don't regret it one bit. (Updated version is either blue+red cable/clear+silver cable, I got the latter).
  
 Some said they, _or at least the first version_, sound veiled. Not my impression, definitely not in the mids. I like vocals with them, and rock. _Maybe_ questionable something in midbass. Using donut pads right now.
 They sound close, that's true, but not oppressive, and not muddy, even when music is dense. Highs aren't too bright or harsh, rolling off juuust right (for me, I don't like them bright).
 The only obvious con is microphonics with this cable type do intermittently appear (there was a clip in the box though).
  
 My source is Shanling M1, and I'm really liking what I hear, with no fatigue. Several times asked myself if I really need those other earbuds I plan to order… Maybe I just like it better when sound isn't too colored, maybe stars aligned right re: QC, but here's my $.02 that those are a respectable pair of buds for the price.


----------



## tinkertailor

All this talk about round-ups i ad an idea which sounds crazy but might be fun. An 'Earbuds Round-Up Round-up Thread' (yes 2x round-up). So its a thread where people post their best of earbuds list and it can evolve over time. Each post is just a ost of someone's current favourite earbuds ranked w/ or w/o descriptions Meh, might be cool to see a big collection of  favs. BTW, quite enjoying this thread last couple days.


----------



## vapman

rkw said:


> "earbud" and "bass lover" is an oxymoron. It is a fundamental technical issue with small driver combined with no seal (unlike in-ear).




Actually you just need eq skills and good amps... 

Even then though they still aren't close to a basshead iem or jvc sz or something.


----------



## Spirulina780

Is there any specific usb dac/amp that is recommended for high impedance earbuds?


----------



## slim311

tinkertailor said:


> All this talk about round-ups i ad an idea which sounds crazy but might be fun. An 'Earbuds Round-Up Round-up Thread' (yes 2x round-up). So its a thread where people post their best of earbuds list and it can evolve over time. Each post is just a ost of someone's current favourite earbuds ranked w/ or w/o descriptions Meh, might be cool to see a big collection of  favs. BTW, quite enjoying this thread last couple days.




Here's mine so far. Keep in mind that I am only just starting my earbud journey, and I have yet to get to any higher end buds. Also, this is not a comparison of each bud's technical ability, just a ranking of enjoyment factor based on the music I listen to and my preference for a v-shaped signature. YMMV

slim311's Top 5:

1) TY-32 (great sub-bass, extended but not harsh (to my ears anyway) treble; this is the closest I've heard so far to my main headphones, Denon D2000. An easy #1)

2) OG Monk (not the deepest bass, not the most extended highs, but these just sound RIGHT to me, I will be on the lookout for some backups)

3) Fareal 32 v2 (not as deep bass as TY32, and much less treble extension; these sound good with rock and metal that is mastered a little hot)

4) Boarseman K25 (v-shaped but not overly so, these are closer to neutral than they are to TY32. decent soundstage gives them the edge over Qian25)

5) Qian25 (more balanced than the others, but not quite neutral. I prefer the sound sig to the K25, but the smaller soundstage is their weakness, IMO)


enjoyable, but not top 5: K25S, Monk+

not my cup of tea: Fareal 64 v1

own but haven't listened to/compared yet: Qian39, ColaRad C01, HE 150ohm, Meizu EP-21, EP-21HD

in transit: Qian69, HY-1S, PS100-64, some random DIY buds

I will update this list when my taobao order arrives in a few weeks or so, if anybody is interested.


----------



## vapman

Last tine i tried to get qian69 it was out of stock everywhere. Whered you buy it?


----------



## slim311

vapman said:


> Last tine i tried to get qian69 it was out of stock everywhere. Whered you buy it?




https://world.taobao.com/item/543669119625.htm?fromSite=main&_u=a2rq7ssid41d

this was the only seller I found, and it took them 2 weeks to ship. All the rest of my orders had been at the warehouse for a week, before these even went out. I was about to request a refund, but I was like "I'll give them 2 more days, I really want these" and fortunately they shipped the next day. I wasn't really ready to spend $30 on one pair of buds yet (I'm still dabbling in the budget range; it's about the journey, not the destination!), but I figured it was now or never with these, they only have like 20 or so in stock of each color.


----------



## purplesun

slim311 said:


> 1) TY-32 (great sub-bass, extended but not harsh (to my ears anyway) treble; this is the closest I've heard so far to my main headphones, Denon D2000. An easy #1)


 
  
 If it's the L-plug version, then TY32s should be a noticeable step-up with a more cohesive sound & stronger mids. But if it's the straight-plug, then TY32s sounds just different enough not to be so sure that it will be an upgrade. Nevertheless, even the weakest amp connected to any of them sounds like a nuclear reactor!


----------



## boblauer

forcemajeure said:


> It's all relative, some have more bass than others, but it won't have the same punch as a sealed iem known to have good bass.
> 
> Some earbuds are pleasant enough though and have enough bass to compensate for the usual tininess sound that buds were known to have. But again everyone ears differently for some it might be good enough to enjoy the music for others it still might not be good enough. Your best shot is to buy a known bud as reference point like the monk plus. From there it will be easier to assess people's impressions.


 
 I personally think this is the spot point of reference for any one new to this hobby. It's all subjective to your own ears and likes. Starting t=with a known low cost commodity like the MP gives you a point of reference to move in many directions once you get hooked. The most telling part of this was the fact it would only cost you a small amount to get that point of reference. Good point Force.


----------



## slim311

purplesun said:


> If it's the L-plug version, then TY32s should be a noticeable step-up with a more cohesive sound & stronger mids. But if it's the straight-plug, then TY32s sounds just different enough not to be so sure that it will be an upgrade. Nevertheless, even the weakest amp connected to any of them sounds like a nuclear reactor!




Yeah its a v2 L-plug, I just got in the Colarad C01 today, which I've heard sounds similar/the same as HP-32S, but haven't listened to them yet. I will probably end up getting the HP32S anyway; they are only like $6 on tao, plus OCD won't let me NOT get them.


----------



## slim311

boblauer said:


> Starting t=with a known low cost commodity like the MP gives you a point of reference to move in many directions once you get hooked.




That's what got me. I loved the Monk+, then I gave my pair away and thought "hmm I wonder what else is out there before I buy another MP". Now there is other buds I prefer. I still like the MP, don't get me wrong, but if it wasn't for those, I wouldn't have even begun to look at stuff like TY32 or the Qians. They showed me that cheap earbuds didn't have to sound terrible, and there were enough cheap ones out there that eventually I will find the perfect one for me, and it won't cost me a fortune, 5 or 10 bucks at a time (although it might turn out to be a small fortune in the long run, it will have been worth the experience)


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

slim311 said:


> Yeah its a v2 L-plug, I just got in the Colarad C01 today, which I've heard sounds similar/the same as HP-32S, but haven't listened to them yet. I will probably end up getting the HP32S anyway; they are only like $6 on tao, plus OCD won't let me NOT get them.


 
 How much did you pay for the Colarad's? I paid $14.99 US on Aliexpress. I wonder why they cost so much more than the TY's if the sound is similar? All the cool stuff they include?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

slim311 said:


> That's what got me. I loved the Monk+, then I gave my pair away and thought "hmm I wonder what else is out there before I buy another MP". Now there is other buds I prefer. I still like the MP, don't get me wrong, but if it wasn't for those, I wouldn't have even begun to look at stuff like TY32 or the Qians. They showed me that cheap earbuds didn't have to sound terrible, and there were enough cheap ones out there that eventually I will find the perfect one for me, and it won't cost me a fortune, 5 or 10 bucks at a time (although it might turn out to be a small fortune in the long run, it will have been worth the experience)


 
 Indeed, you're right, it's also costing me a small fortune buying all these headphones. It sounds like Chinese companies are willing to give better value than American companies when it comes to ear buds and the quality of them. So many cheapo headphones at places like Winners that no one ever wanted and still don't.


----------



## slim311

laughmoredaily said:


> How much did you pay for the Colarad's? I paid $14.99 US on Aliexpress. I wonder why they cost so much more than the TY's if the sound is similar? All the cool stuff they include?




I think the TY32S is also like $12-14 on ali, almost everything is cheaper on tao, but not always by enough to make the extra shipping/forwarding fees worthwhile (ie, the Paiaudio PR1 is $19 on ali, but only goes down to $18 on tao). 

I got the Colarad and HE150 from a seller in the for sale forum, both for $20.

On a side note, I've now spent so much time on tao, that I can recognize 耳机 as the chinese characters for headphones. See mom, it's not a dumb waste of money, I'm LEARNING things too!


----------



## purplesun

slim311 said:


> Yeah its a v2 L-plug, I just got in the Colarad C01 today, which I've heard sounds similar/the same as HP-32S, but haven't listened to them yet. I will probably end up getting the HP32S anyway; they are only like $6 on tao, plus OCD won't let me NOT get them.


 
 If you really like the TY Hi-Z 32 series, you must try to get the original straight plug (v1) in the used forums. You basically need three: TY32v1, TY32v2 & TY32s/r/Colarad to appreciate how similar yet different they sound. IMO, they are not the highest of sound fidelity, but they can sure pack a punch!
  
 Also, these need a 4-day burn-in to settle in.


----------



## slim311

purplesun said:


> If you really like the TY Hi-Z 32 series, you must try to get the original straight plug (v1) in the used forums. You basically need three: TY32v1, TY32v2 & TY32s/r/Colarad to appreciate how similar yet different they sound. IMO, they are not the highest of sound fidelity, but they can sure pack a punch!
> 
> Also, these need a 4-day burn-in to settle in.




Right now I'm on a listen for a day, burn for a week, then listen for a week schedule. TBH I didn't really believe in burn-in before I got into earbuds, but right off the bat I heard changes in more than one set after some time on them, but it was far from every pair. I guess this makes me a burn-in agnostic; maybe it's real, but I'm not 100% convinced yet. Did I really hear a change? Was it just placebo? Expectation bias? I dunno. I THINK I heard a change, so maybe that's all that matters? Either way, it doesn't cost me anything but time to burn-in, and it's not like I don't have enough other buds to listen to while whatever just came in is running.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go hunt for a v1 to buy


----------



## kim7135

saoshyant said:


> Well, my 1More E320 has arrived here in the US, but I'm 2.5 days away from buyer protection lapsing as it was an 11.11 order.  At this point I really expect I'll be asking for a refund from Aliexpress due to the long wait, but there's a chance I'll have it before time is up.  After two months, I'm not even really curious how they sound anymore in all honestly, but I'll see how it goes.
> 
> Also @vapman I ordered two more E808+ and will see if I also have the EQ issue pertaining to bass my first one has.  I'll probably stick the original with a gaming console as it does have a very enjoyable sound even via the headphone jack of a controller.


 
  
 Same here. Been exactly two months since 11.11 where I ordered a CX98S and a Seahf LD-3.0. I did ask Jim for a two-week extension for the buyer protection which he was ok with, but I feel like asking for a refund. Shipping info isn't even accurate, and it's starting to frustrate me as I don't know if the products were actually sent or not, and I have no idea where it is if it did get shipped.
  
 My apologies for the light rant.
  
 Now I feel like ordering a PT15.


----------



## chinmie

sooo... the colarad and the ty hi z32s have the same sound?


----------



## golov17

kim7135 said:


> Same here. Been exactly two months since 11.11 where I ordered a CX98S and a Seahf LD-3.0. I did ask Jim for a two-week extension for the buyer protection which he was ok with, but I feel like asking for a refund. Shipping info isn't even accurate, and it's starting to frustrate me as I don't know if the products were actually sent or not, and I have no idea where it is if it did get shipped.
> 
> My apologies for the light rant.
> 
> Now I feel like ordering a PT15.


 from Jim is a very long time, but after waiting, in the end all come to me


----------



## purplesun

chinmie said:


> sooo... the colarad and the ty hi z32s have the same sound?


 

 Well, both made by TY. Having 32ohm drivers and the same red cable and released within weeks of each other. So chances are high. Can't remember if anyone did a 32s/Colarad head-to-head yet. At least Sliim311 should have some Colarad impressions against his TY32v2 in a few days time.


----------



## Joy Boy

sound eq said:


> so earbuds generally are they anemic in bass ?
> 
> i thought that there is an all agreed on flagship earbud for bass lovers







rkw said:


> "earbud" and "bass lover" is an oxymoron. It is a fundamental technical issue with small driver combined with no seal (unlike in-ear).



Most of earbud is lack of bass quality and quantity (especially for basshead) compared to iem or headphone.
But there is some earbud that give me this "chill" for their bass quality. 
In my list, the best one of course ve zen v1. You should try it to change your mind about bass in earbud.
Or try the cheaper one like musa sp1 or edifier h180.
Seahf series is also known for its bass impact


----------



## fairx

It's all about bass preference. I have soundmagic e80 iem. The bass goes lower than 16hz. Still not a bass head iem and it's slower. But it still too much bass for me. I don't need bass quantity that thump and stick. as long as they're there up to 25-20hz with great speed and composure I'm in. So far earbud are cheap and fulfilling in that Regards. 

So far qian39's bass and control and almost effortless mid range surprisingly surpass ty hi-z 320

So far my rank is (for normal recordings) 

1.
2. Qian39 (overall very pleasing and quite effortless, bass composure, fluid midrange) 
3. Ty hi-z 320 (fun fun and shout earbud. Bass can feel like speaker with donut foam) 
4. Tomahawk (dynamic and intense also quite effortless) 
5. Rx -1 & Ty 32 v1 (share spot rx-1 for midrange and ty for spatial imaging) 
6.
7. Monk+
8. Philips she3800

For binaural recordings 

1.
2. Ty 32 v1 (this is the one that almost resemble big can spatial cues) 
3. Ty hi-z 320
4. Everything else


----------



## 1TrickPony

Looking for an earbud to match my Shanling M3. Tried it with a Zen 2.0 and LOVED IT.  Anything else I should consider that's going to give it a run for its money?
 Sorry I've lost touch with the earbuds realm. Just point the direction thank you!

 PS. do we get to score deals for Chinese New Year somewhere?


----------



## Saoshyant

@Joy Boy If only I could still get a Zen 1.  Haven't had any luck getting my hands on one, but will keep looking.


----------



## Danneq

saoshyant said:


> @Joy Boy If only I could still get a Zen 1.  Haven't had any luck getting my hands on one, but will keep looking.


 


 Edimun V3 with rhodium plug to me is as close as you can get to the sound of Zen 1. I had both at the same time and Edimun V3 is just a tiny step down. It's like a "baby Zen 1" but not really that much "baby". Now I have a Edimun with gold plug and it is a little less energetic than with rhodium plug. But I think I might prefer Edimun with gold plug to both Edimun with rhodium plug and Zen 1...


----------



## kim7135

golov17 said:


> from Jim is a very long time, but after waiting, in the end all come to me


 
 Thank you for letting me know, golov. Still relatively new to the earbud game, so haven't bought from many different sellers.
  
  
@fairx Regarding the qian39, when you say it's great for Japanese music, does it also include typical/standard anime songs? If yes, will definitely buy one.


----------



## luckyeights

akashs04 said:


> You mean Qian39 is too Boomy with Default Earcovers which comes with the Earbuds?


 
 Yes I have been using donuts on mine they have the center area cut out.  It helps with highs and if the bass is boomy and lacking detail.


----------



## luckyeights

Ok so what is the Qian line up?  I know of the qian39 and now a few posts back someone linked to a qian 69?  Is this a new model?  Id like to know if qian has an improved qian 39 as I MUST HAVE IT!!!!!


----------



## Tarnum

Small tip to get appropriate fit of RX-1: just use the black electric tape layers to make a ring instead of using rubber ring. Easy to adjust the thickness (by number of layers) and shape of the ring. After that, get full foam for RX-1 and a head-amp using high gain mode => enjoy the full sound of RX-1 with little bit more bass than before. Right now I prefer RX-1 than EO320 (much bass but lack of clarity and refined), Tomahawk (wide sound-stage so the mid seem to be diluted, bass light), my new Baldoor E100 (colored and very aggressive mid though bass is sufficient punch). Though RX-1 still mid-centric with in-your-head soundstage, but it is very nice for asking price.


----------



## base08

tarnum said:


> Small tip to get appropriate fit of RX-1: just use the black electric tape layers to make a ring instead of using rubber ring. Easy to adjust the thickness (by number of layers) and shape of the ring. After that, get full foam for RX-1 and a head-amp using high gain mode => enjoy the full sound of RX-1 with little bit more bass than before. Right now I prefer RX-1 than EO320 (much bass but lack of clarity and refined), Tomahawk (wide sound-stage so the mid seem to be diluted, bass light), my new Baldoor E100 (colored and very aggressive mid though bass is sufficient punch). Though RX-1 still mid-centric with in-your-head soundstage, but it is very nice for asking price.


 

 I've mentioned sometime ago i would share a website where a russian guy did some modding to the RX-1:
  
 https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=pt-PT&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Falexmod.do.am%2Fforum%2F32-295-1&edit-text=&act=url
  
 Voilá!


----------



## golov17

Earhoox from VE


----------



## Townyj

Just ordered my Diomnes  Time to wait! Woohooo
  
 Sneek peak of what they look like in the standard form!! Yummy!


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> Earhoox from VE


 

 I do the same. Great minds think alike!


----------



## Joy Boy

saoshyant said:


> @Joy Boy
> If only I could still get a Zen 1.  Haven't had any luck getting my hands on one, but will keep looking.



I agree with sir Danneq. It's too hard now to find someone sell their zen 1 even if it's second hand one. And ve zen does sound great only if you pair it with appropriate amp.
But if you prefer direct, edimun and red demun is the right choice. Same goes with seahf 320ohm old batch (white cable like zen).
But in think it's just same sound signature type. Not that close. Zen is way better in PRaT and bass, especially subb bass



townyj said:


> Just ordered my Diomnes  Time to wait! Woohooo
> 
> Sneek peak of what they look like in the standard form!! Yummy!



Seriously, they look great..no, amazing.
Though I recommended it, I only tried the demo version. I hope i can puschase it soon.
And for what i saw in their page, they'ready to produce it in big scale. But unfortunately, their best line up (dipios) still have a long way to be reproduced again. Now it's not just the driver problem, but the special cable they use for dipios is out of stock too


----------



## AkashS04

luckyeights said:


> Yes I have been using donuts on mine they have the center area cut out.  It helps with highs and if the bass is boomy and lacking detail.


 
 So if someone wants to have an Earbud which has Boomy Bass like someone is playing Drum in the ear, Qian39 is the Earbud? Is it so? And it suppresses all other effects but still maintain some clarity and details?


----------



## mochill

saoshyant said:


> @Joy Boy
> If only I could still get a Zen 1.  Haven't had any luck getting my hands on one, but will keep looking.


Zen 2 black edition


----------



## mochill

1trickpony said:


> Looking for an earbud to match my Shanling M3. Tried it with a Zen 2.0 and LOVED IT.  Anything else I should consider that's going to give it a run for its money?
> 
> Sorry I've lost touch with the earbuds realm. Just point the direction thank you!
> 
> ...


Zen 2 black edition


----------



## Danneq

akashs04 said:


> So if someone wants to have an Earbud which has Boomy Bass like someone is playing Drum in the ear, Qian39 is the Earbud? Is it so? And it suppresses all other effects but still maintain some clarity and details?


 


 Sure! Only a little over $6. Give it a try!


----------



## AkashS04

I am using Monk+ but overall it is just Ok. Did not make much difference in terms of sound or Bass. In fact it is very difficult to make out any difference when I compare it with other earbuds I have. is there any Earbud which has really Boom Bass and really really Lava Hot Warmness. But at least some clarity should be there too. Not looking for any expensive one. I have installed Rockbox on my iPod Nano but still figuring out best EQ setting for Boomy and 3D Sound effect. Something similar to PowerAmp. Not sure if getting a good earbud will actually make any difference?


----------



## AkashS04

Let me try this one. I just posted if some Boomy Bass earbud. I can try Qian39 but is there anything even better? To me, Monk+ has usual Bass which may be 5-10% more than my Rmei Earbuds which I bought from AliExpress. My Apple earbuds are good as well but seems they are distorted now and not working properly.


----------



## Danneq

Qian39:
http://www.head-fi.org/products/qianyun-qian39/reviews/17094

 Just a little over $6 on Aliexpress.


----------



## noknok23

any cheap shirt clip to recommend for braided cables? I just broke the one from my expack trying to fit in it.


----------



## AkashS04

Let me try this.


----------



## golov17

noknok23 said:


> any cheap shirt clip to recommend for braided cables? I just broke the one from my expack trying to fit in it.


  this?


----------



## noknok23

Thanks Golov, I'll try these


----------



## AkashS04

Does having Tangle Free and Thick Cable make any difference in Sound Quality? Is it possible to change the Cable of earbud like Monk+ or any other one?


----------



## AkashS04

Guys. I forgot to tell or suggest you one earbud. It is local Singapore Brand and not sure from where you can buy but it is strongly recommended to buy and try this one. Especially, if someone is going to Singapore, he can buy from Challenger or Valore Store or even online also I guess. There are few sites. I will give very high rating to this one and reasons I could not buy this at that time was that it was not on sale so was at S$35 that time and 2nd reason is that it has slightly bigger earbud in size so I was not sure if I shud go for this or what and then I left Singapore
  
 http://www.valore.sg/Valore/project/valore-earphone-with-mic-ep0008/ 
  
 I can guarantee if you hear this, you will not even mention Monk+ in your life (as most of the people like Monk+ very much here).


----------



## AkashS04

It is available on Aliexpress:
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Valore-Earphone-with-Mic-music-earpiece-for-smartphone-mp3-mp4-player-EP0008/2170099_32673659263.html
  
 But at looks like Valore's official store, it is much cheaper. Not sure if they can ship to US or other countries but surely within SG. 
  
 https://www.hachi.tech/product/6926934807178/valore-earphone-with-mic-ep0008-silver 
  
 Only S$13.47 (I guess with tax around S$ 15-16.)


----------



## golov17

Like this?


----------



## headjelly

What's the amp?
  
 Quote:


golov17 said:


> Like this?


----------



## luckyeights

akashs04 said:


> So if someone wants to have an Earbud which has Boomy Bass like someone is playing Drum in the ear, Qian39 is the Earbud? Is it so? And it suppresses all other effects but still maintain some clarity and details?


 
 Stock the qian 39 has some of the best bass out of a lot of the earbuds out there.  Now here is the thing when you put foam over an earbud it does a couple of different things to the sound.
  
 1. It will make the bass more present but at the cost of detail (bass without detail is boomy)
 2. It will reduce the higher frequencies 
 3. It reduces the overall clarity of the sound
  
 Using a donut instead of a full foam lets you keep the elevated bass by creating a seal like the full foam would but lets you keep the details, higher frequencies and keep most of the clarity.
  
 The effect a full foam has on one earbud may not be as noticeable on another, but generally speaking the above apply. 
  
 For earbuds that have a warmer sound signature like the qian 39 i highly recommend donuts so that you can keep as much of the high end as possible as well as their clarity.  For cooler earbuds (ones that lean towards higher frequencies)  i would recommend full foams to reduce the higher frequencies and warm the sound up a little.


----------



## golov17




----------



## AkashS04

Ok. So using Full Foam Cushions will Enhance Bass. Correct? There are number of Cushions, which one is good for this purpose as well as durable too. And of course comfortable. Or shall I order anyone and all are same?


----------



## music4mhell

So at last, Cypherus got shipped today 
 My Zen black is ready for the clash !


----------



## AkashS04

How are ComplyFoams? Are they good and actually will fit to Earbuds? Even for in-ear earphones, do they still create tight seal and vacuum or they will feel like we are wearing earbuds in form of earphones?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Anyone have any wooden ear buds here? The only cheaper ones I can find with good reviews are DZAT on Aliexpress. I used to have Kanen but can't remember if they were any good.


----------



## golov17

laughmoredaily said:


> Anyone have any wooden ear buds here? The only cheaper ones I can find with good reviews are DZAT on Aliexpress. I used to have Kanen but can't remember if they were any good.


DZAT - IEM, not earbuds, earbuds - Yinman150,500 or 600 Ohm, or DK-JIN or DK-SONG


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> DZAT - IEM, not earbuds, earbuds - Yinman150,500 or 600 Ohm, or DK-JIN or DK-SONG


 

 And Radius HP-WHF11M (I have only seen it sold in Japan):
http://www.head-fi.org/t/554098/review-radius-hp-whf11m-wooden-earbuds


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> And Radius HP-WHF11M (I have only seen it sold in Japan):
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/554098/review-radius-hp-whf11m-wooden-earbuds


 Yeah, I forgot about them


----------



## Frederick Wang

music4mhell said:


> So at last, Cypherus got shipped today
> My Zen black is ready for the clash !


 
 They start to make CAX black again?


----------



## Danneq

frederick wang said:


> They start to make CAX black again?


 

 I think he bought the last pair...


----------



## rkw

I'm a novice in the earbud world. When I see "DIY" products listed on AliExpress, does this mean it is a bag of parts to assemble yourself? For example, is this a kit for assembling an equivalent of PK1: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Yuin-150ohm-red-film-pk1-earphone-diy-headphone-OFC-wire/32259341236.html. I don't currently own a soldering iron for fine detail work. What other tools and materials would be needed?


----------



## golov17

rkw said:


> I'm a novice in the earbud world. When I see "DIY" products listed on AliExpress, does this mean it is a bag of parts to assemble yourself? For example, is this a kit for assembling an equivalent of PK1: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Yuin-150ohm-red-film-pk1-earphone-diy-headphone-OFC-wire/32259341236.html. I don't currently own a soldering iron for fine detail work. What other tools and materials would be needed?


 no, this ready to use earbuds with cable and tuning of the seller, not the factory, so the DIY


----------



## Frederick Wang

danneq said:


> I think he bought the last pair...


 
 I'm jealous


----------



## rkw

golov17 said:


> no, this ready to use earbuds with cable and tuning of the seller, not the factory, so the DIY


 
 Thanks for the explanation. In the example I posted earlier, I assume that the seller did not purchase a PK1 and modified it, but instead assembled his own "PK1" from similar parts? Because otherwise the low price doesn't make sense.


----------



## Danneq

frederick wang said:


> I'm jealous




Well, Herry is planning for two new earbuds in 2017: 


> Yes... I will try to make 1 or 2 earbuds. Thinking of the entry level and top of the line as the replacement of CAX black




http://www.head-fi.org/t/826036/cypherus-audio-products-discussion-thread-campfred-earbuds-qfred-earbuds-and-cax-golden-reference/300#post_13160845

So there is still hope for you who missed CAX black. I want to buy both new earbuds...


----------



## slim311

purplesun said:


> Well, both made by TY. Having 32ohm drivers and the same red cable and released within weeks of each other. So chances are high. Can't remember if anyone did a 32s/Colarad head-to-head yet. At least Sliim311 should have some Colarad impressions against his TY32v2 in a few days time.




here's some quick pre-burn impressions of ColaRad C01 vs TY32v2:

-colarad bass isn't as deep, but sounds slightly cleaner

-treble is not quite as emphasized on colarad

-vocals are comparable, but with the slightly lower extension on either end, the colarad sounds a bit more natural

-the cable is nearly identical, same sponginess, same splitter/plug, the difference is the colarad is a tiny bit thicker, but would be hard to notice without holding both (it's hard to notice even WITH holding both...)

my TY32 changed a bit with some hours on them, so can't make a final determination yet, but at this stage I wouldn't say they are the same, just that they are different flavors of the same general signature, although these differences are small. I'll be interested to see how it turns out in a couple days

to be continued...


----------



## purplesun

slim311 said:


> my TY32 changed a bit with some hours on them, so can't make a final determination yet, but at this stage I wouldn't say they are the same, just that they are different flavors of the same general signature, although these differences are small. I'll be interested to see how it turns out in a couple days
> to be continued...


 
  
 Yeah, some days later would be better.
  
 You do know that you likely won't stop until you get TY Hi-Z 650 (& everything in between), right? 
 TY32 is a "terrible" gateway drug to the entire TY product range


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

golov17 said:


> DZAT - IEM, not earbuds, earbuds - Yinman150,500 or 600 Ohm, or DK-JIN or DK-SONG


 
 Hmm, I think I'll try the DZAT first, the DK-Jin and DK-Song are $30 and $50. Yinman when found, is probably a similar price. I can't see the value in high priced ear buds, sorry.


----------



## golov17

laughmoredaily said:


> Hmm, I think I'll try the DZAT first, the DK-Jin and DK-Song are $30 and $50. Yinman when found, is probably a similar price. I can't see the value in high priced ear buds, sorry.


okay, well, dzat $20


----------



## slim311

purplesun said:


> Yeah, some days later would be better.
> 
> You do know that you likely won't stop until you get TY Hi-Z 650 (& everything in between), right?
> TY32 is a "terrible" gateway drug to the entire TY product range




Yeah that's what I'm afraid of. I already have every color of MP (except the newly released coffee and espresso) and I ordered a Qian69 on my taobao order (didn't need $30 buds!) just to "have them all".


----------



## golov17

So good with e808+


----------



## vapman

Hmm, I need to get my hands on a Qian69, I keep forgetting I don't have them. I could wait for reviews though


----------



## slim311

vapman said:


> Hmm, I need to get my hands on a Qian69, I keep forgetting I don't have them. I could wait for reviews though




Somebody is going to review those? *looks around* Oh, you mean me?  I'm not much of a reviewer, but I will definitely give my opinions when they get here. Would I be only the 2nd after ClieOS to have these? That would be some pressure!


----------



## vapman

slim311 said:


> Somebody is going to review those? *looks around* Oh, you mean me?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Even some quick impressions or comparisons would be great but a mini review would be even better! I'm finding I must be getting picky because I don't really enjoy using anything but Asura 2, Edimun v3 or Red Demun these days. I need a new zen 2 and TY 650 comes out so rarely because it's more laid back than I want most of the time. I have Cygnus on my Ps4 controller because I stopped using Monks for games a while back, while they're excellent for any music they sound a little off in games.
  
 (The Yinman 150 is great too but harder to come by, at least unless they're on aliexpress too now. I endorse them)


----------



## JASru

slim311 said:


> here's some quick pre-burn impressions of ColaRad C01 vs TY32v2:
> 
> -colarad bass isn't as deep, but sounds slightly cleaner
> 
> ...


 When I compared the burnt-in ty-32 with ty-c01the difference was really slim. Not big enough to buy them as two separate earbuds. Well, maybe your experience will be different.


----------



## luedriver

for me, I feel the hp32 v1 compared to the hp32s is like comparing a 4 door saloon car with its 2 door sports version
  
 it gives up a bit of the low-end torque for some high-end performance


----------



## golov17

Yinman150 good


----------



## golov17

..but 500 - better


----------



## vapman

@golov17  different sound sig between 150 and 500?


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> @golov17
> different sound sig between 150 and 500?


 150 sound, as if from afar, Free of tension, and musicality, but 500 ohm have a more transparent sound, and closer than the 150, I fell in love with them right away, lol


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> 150 sound, as if from afar, Free of tension, and musicality, but 500 ohm have a more transparent sound, and closer than the 150, I fell in love with them right away, lol


 
 Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 glad to hear from someone who has both
  
 I will have to get their 500 then


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Thanks   glad to hear from someone who has both
> 
> I will have to get their 500 then


 I recommend unequivocally


----------



## rkw

I see a Yinman 600 ohm with detachable cord.
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Newest-YINMAN-600ohm-Earbuds-Wooden-HIFI-Earphone-High-Impendence-Headset-Better-Than-Monk-Earburd-Flat-Plug/32782047968.html


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Some new toys arrived today:
  
  
 Left - *Boarseman MX98s (Black)*

 Top - *QianYun Qian39 (L Plug)*

 Bottom - *K's 64ohm (White)*
  

  
 --


----------



## vapman

bloodypenguin said:


> Some new toys arrived today:
> 
> 
> Left - *Boarseman MX98s (Black)*
> ...


 
 Some good buds there. Is that your first 39?


----------



## purplesun

bloodypenguin said:


> Bottom - *K's 64ohm (White)*


 
  
 One of the 3 earphones I carry everywhere in my notebook bag. E808+ for walking around. KZ ATE when it gets really noisy. And K64(white) for watching movies on the notebook. For some reason, the atmosphere & effects of creepy movies are extra creepy with the K64.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> Some good buds there. Is that your first 39?


 
  
 Yes, finally got myself a pair!  It is not quite as bassy as I thought it would be, but we are talking with zero burn in.  I like how they sound so far though, maybe some deeper lows will come in after a little time.
  
  


purplesun said:


> One of the 3 earphones I carry everywhere in my notebook bag. E808+ for walking around. KZ ATE when it gets really noisy. And K64(white) for watching movies on the notebook. For some reason, the atmosphere & effects of creepy movies are extra creepy with the K64.


 
  
 The K's 64ohm has a nice clean sound out of the box, I do look forward to using them more .
  
 --


----------



## vapman

bloodypenguin said:


> Yes, finally got myself a pair!  It is not quite as bassy as I thought it would be, but we are talking with zero burn in.  I like how they sound so far though, maybe some deeper lows will come in after a little time.
> 
> 
> 
> --


 
 They aren't Vidos but they are pretty nice.
  
 Speaking of which it's almost time for another Taobao order.


----------



## JASru

bloodypenguin said:


> The K's 64ohm has a nice clean sound out of the box, I do look forward to using them more .
> 
> --


 
 Cable is sooo neat for this price point. The lenght is a benefit too.
 Generally I liked them a lot, though TP-16 proved to be a better pick for my ears.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

jasru said:


> Cable is sooo neat for this price point. The lenght is a benefit too.
> Generally I liked them a lot, though TP-16 proved to be a better pick for my ears.


 
  
 LOVE the cable on the K's 64ohm!  It is super long which is nice for certain situations. 

 --


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> Speaking of which it's almost time for another Taobao order.


 
  
 Better hurry! I am getting news that some of the taobao sellers will not be taking new orders from some time next week. And we will all be twiddling thumbs until they come from CNY holidays few weeks later.


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> Better hurry! I am getting news that some of the taobao sellers will not be taking new orders from some time next week. And we will all be twiddling thumbs until they come from CNY holidays few weeks later.


 
 OH yeah, duh! thanks, i guess i'll wait a bit to figure out what I want to order then


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I have almost 20 pairs of ear buds/headphones coming to me in the mail... I don't think I should have ever come on this site. I can't afford it!


----------



## SuperMAG

Please compare the yinman to other top earbuds. Thanks.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Anyone heard of these before?

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.19.vnkJ1i&id=533113398236&ns=1&abbucket=13#detail


----------



## tinkertailor

i used to own the nw strudio pro w... i found it had lacking bass, and an abnormal frequency spike somewhere in high mids/low highs so that odd acoustic guitar notes, for example, would distort. others report them being amazing, though that was a few years ago now..a lot has come out since then


----------



## ClieOS

audionewbi3 said:


> Anyone heard of these before?
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.19.vnkJ1i&id=533113398236&ns=1&abbucket=13#detail


 
  
 That is the original NW-Studio (not pro). It was originally known as ADX-SII-10001, made by Aidex and was developed by Mitsuru Takashima (former Sony engineer) and said to have input from with Masaru Ibuka (Sony co-founder). But Aidex never really did make a name for itself and was sold to 9W, and subsequently ADX-SII-10001 was rebranded as the original NW-Studio. Some NOS of ADX-SII-10001 was found in storage awhile back, which is why it starts to surface on Taobao after all these time.
  
 p/s: you can still find NW-Studio in Japan for about the same price as ADX-SII-10001 on Taobao.


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, I found a travel container I wanted to try out for my gear.  It's made by the same company that made the earbud case I posted about earlier, and can comfortably fit my Opus #1 and 2 earbud cases, maybe 3 if I try.  At first I wasn't going to buy it due to the rather high price at $100, but broke down when it hit $40 a couple days ago.  It feels extremely high quality, and quite luxurious.  I'll try to get around to taking some pictures soon.  Honestly, it'd make a great case for holding my Monk family.


----------



## smith

Any one own the stardust and campfred earbud ...interested in how they compare.


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Anyone heard of these before?
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.19.vnkJ1i&id=533113398236&ns=1&abbucket=13#detail


 not very good, imho


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> not very good, imho


 
 I think the version you have is the 9W studio pro, and the one from the Taobao link is it's predecessor, the 9W studio.
http://www.9wave.jp/nw-studio.html
  
 But if the pro version is not that good, then perhaps the 9w studio version will be even worse? Unless it is the case like VE Zen where some prefer the sound of the first gen hahaha


----------



## PureSounds-cn

wow，clieos ! Long time no see


----------



## PureSounds-cn

clieos said:


> That is the original NW-Studio (not pro). It was originally known as ADX-SII-10001, made by Aidex and was developed by Mitsuru Takashima (former Sony engineer) and said to have input from with Masaru Ibuka (Sony co-founder). But Aidex never really did make a name for itself and was sold to 9W, and subsequently ADX-SII-10001 was rebranded as the original NW-Studio. Some NOS of ADX-SII-10001 was found in storage awhile back, which is why it starts to surface on Taobao after all these time.
> 
> p/s: you can still find NW-Studio in Japan for about the same price as ADX-SII-10001 on Taobao.





long time no see


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> I think the version you have is the 9W studio pro, and the one from the Taobao link is it's predecessor, the 9W studio.
> http://www.9wave.jp/nw-studio.html
> 
> But if the pro version is not that good, then perhaps the 9w studio version will be even worse? Unless it is the case like VE Zen where some prefer the sound of the first gen hahaha


 


 I would say that Monk+ is  better than both.

 If I remember correctly, 9W studio is sort of thin sounding with a tendency towards bright treble, and 9W Studio Pro is a bassy mess with tiny soundstage.

 I sold both of them quite fast...


----------



## golov17

Let them be. For a collection


----------



## tinkertailor

danneq said:


> I sold both of them quite fast...


 
 Paying $100 or more for those really changed things for me. Until that point I assumed price=quality.


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> Let them be. For a collection




I need to sell so that I can buy new stuff! I do still collect old vintage Sony and Aiwa earbuds. And clip on earphones.



tinkertailor said:


> Paying $100 or more for those really changed things for me. Until that point I assumed price=quality.




Painful but important lessons...


----------



## AudioNewbi3

clieos said:


> That is the original NW-Studio (not pro). It was originally known as ADX-SII-10001, made by Aidex and was developed by Mitsuru Takashima (former Sony engineer) and said to have input from with Masaru Ibuka (Sony co-founder). But Aidex never really did make a name for itself and was sold to 9W, and subsequently ADX-SII-10001 was rebranded as the original NW-Studio. Some NOS of ADX-SII-10001 was found in storage awhile back, which is why it starts to surface on Taobao after all these time.
> 
> p/s: you can still find NW-Studio in Japan for about the same price as ADX-SII-10001 on Taobao.


 
 Ah I see I see Thanks for the info sifu. Do you have them?
  


danneq said:


> I would say that Monk+ is  better than both.
> 
> If I remember correctly, 9W studio is sort of thin sounding with a tendency towards bright treble, and 9W Studio Pro is a bassy mess with tiny soundstage.
> 
> I sold both of them quite fast...


 
 Hmm, seems like this earbud according to ClieOS was created before Aidex went into the hands of 9W, so waondering if there is any difference in sound. Bright treble is good for me as I am almost immune to it hahahaha.
  


tinkertailor said:


> Paying $100 or more for those really changed things for me. Until that point I assumed price=quality.


 
 $100?! That is a bloody lot mate


----------



## golov17

150 - the most secure choice, 500 better, but in need of an amplifier





PS.Listening PF The Wall with Yinman500, sounds fantastic


----------



## rkw

golov17 said:


> 150 - the most secure choice, 500 better, but in need of an amplifier
> 
> PS.Listening PF The Wall with Yinman500, sounds fantastic


 
 Anybody tried the 600 yet?


----------



## golov17

rkw said:


> Anybody tried the 600 yet?


 I'm not sure about the comfort fit in the ear due to mmcx connectors


----------



## rkw

golov17 said:


> I'm not sure about the comfort fit in the ear due to mmcx connectors


 
 I was wondering about that too, but I couldn't find even a single review from someone who has one.


----------



## Saoshyant

I'm tempted to order it, but the seller offered me a discount if I'd advetrise for them.


----------



## mochill

puresounds-cn said:


> wow，clieos ! Long time no see


hi friend , can't wait to hear ps600 balanced


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> I'm tempted to order it, but the seller offered me a discount if I'd advetrise for them.


why not? Yinman very well buds


----------



## Saoshyant

golov17 said:


> why not? Yinman very well buds




Advertise for the store that is. I'm a little apprehensive about that.


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> Advertise for the store that is. I'm a little apprehensive about that.


Ohh, i see..


----------



## tintheman

danneq said:


> I need to sell so that I can buy new stuff! I do still collect old vintage Sony and Aiwa earbuds. And clip on earphones.
> Painful but important lessons...


 
 Hi Danneq, which one is your fav clip on earphone? Looks like everyone fav is still from Koss...


----------



## luckyeights

Has anyone else noticed that the qian 39 has superb layering?  I can pick out an instrument or a voice in the song and block out everything else so easily with these buds.  They really do have very good layering.


----------



## vapman

luckyeights said:


> Has anyone else noticed that the qian 39 has superb layering?  I can pick out an instrument or a voice in the song and block out everything else so easily with these buds.  They really do have very good layering.


 
 Yeah, very true. It is a little easier to tell layers apart. But, I also found with certain recordings it sounds too distant and undefined. This made me understand why it got such a negative impression on the Japanese blog. I didn't really like what I was hearing then either, but on different material it was just perfect.
  
 I'm finding even Monk+ is muddy seeming to me now, so the Cygnus are the "worst" earbuds I've been willing to use as of late 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 crap bass but everything else decent on the Cygnus...


----------



## Danneq

tintheman said:


> Hi Danneq, which one is your fav clip on earphone? Looks like everyone fav is still from Koss...


 

 Since there is no real clip on discussion we can perhaps use some space here for discussions about that type of earphones?

 Well, my favorite is Yuin G2A. I have not listened too closely to my recent purchases Audio Technica ATH EM9d and Victor HP-AL700, but those sounds very nice as well.
 There are just so many new earbuds that I have not had time for the clip ons for a while

 I have never heard Koss. I prefered to focus on the lesser known Japanese ear clips...


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> Since there is no real clip on discussion we can perhaps use some space here for discussions about that type of earphones?
> 
> Well, my favorite is Yuin G2A. I have not listened too closely to my recent purchases Audio Technica ATH EM9d and Victor HP-AL700, but those sounds very nice as well.
> There are just so many new earbuds that I have not had time for the clip ons for a while
> ...


 
 I almost have a hard time believing someone who's been here for this long has resisted the Call of the Koss for so long?! I almost want to get you a set of KSC75 cause I hardly believe it.


----------



## Danneq

I was sort of "anti everything that's popular" and wanted to try stuff that was more obscure. I will give KSC75 a try later.

 Right now the focus is on earbuds, though. I have hardly given my latest clip on purchases a listen.

 And now I've got a pair of Diomnes Lv2 ordered. ABnormal will probably send them some time next week...


----------



## Willber

> I almost have a hard time believing someone who's been here for this long has resisted the Call of the Koss for so long?! I almost want to get you a set of KSC75 cause I hardly believe it.


 
  
 I was going to ask if there was any reason I shouldn't get these but then I just bought them anyway, I couldn't resist the 1% discount! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Koss-Stereo-Headphones-iPhone-Smartphone/dp/B0006B486K


----------



## vapman

willber said:


> I was going to ask if there was any reason I shouldn't get these but then I just bought them anyway, I couldn't resist the 1% discount!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Crazy, sorry about the GBP, they're a good value though. 
 Giant solder points too about a full inch apart, so easy to solder on even if all your only iron is from the stone age!


----------



## purplesun

willber said:


> I was going to ask if there was any reason I shouldn't get these but then I just bought them anyway, I couldn't resist the 1% discount!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 If people around you have strong phobias of CyberMan!


----------



## Willber

vapman said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > I was going to ask if there was any reason I shouldn't get these but then I just bought them anyway, I couldn't resist the 1% discount!
> ...


 
  
 Good news. I should get them on Monday.


----------



## Willber

purplesun said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > I was going to ask if there was any reason I shouldn't get these but then I just bought them anyway, I couldn't resist the 1% discount!
> ...


 

 Ha, I can live with that!


----------



## Townyj

So i went with the normal Diomnes. Trying to toss up whether i wanted fancy cable over the Standard Cardas cable. Will give some impressions when they arrive


----------



## chinmie

just received the qian 39 and the red Ty Hi Z32s two days ago and spend some time listening and comparing to the black Ty Hi Z (L jack). here is some of my findings:
-the red one doesn't need too much burn in to sound great, unlike the black one (it sounded horrible ootb) 
-the sound character is really similar, but the red one is clearer. also the black one has an annoying low mid frequency that really bothers me, making it unsuitable for long listening (i can only describe it like a "bomp" sound in the bass and kick). the red one doesn't have that annoying freq bump
-the cables and the accessories are nicer

the qian39 is warm and smooth.. it's like a monk plus with much better bass and separation. it is also small and lightweight, very comfortable to wear, although the cables are on the thin side. the mid is fat, so i can use this in really low volume and still be able to listen to the music and the environment. it's like having a portable desktop speaker with me everywhere 

btw, i am using donut foams on all three of them


----------



## kartik7405

townyj said:


> So i went with the normal Diomnes. Trying to toss up whether i wanted fancy cable over the Standard Cardas cable. Will give some impressions when they arrive


 
 you should go with cardas one.The difference between ve zen and ve zen black 2(cardas one)  is day and night.
 i am surprised a cable make that much difference ;after i audition.


----------



## Townyj

kartik7405 said:


> you should go with cardas one.The difference between ve zen and ve zen black 2(cardas one)  is day and night.
> i am surprised a cable make that much difference ;after i audition.


 
  
 The Cardas one is the stock Diomnes, the other 2 levels use a higher grade occ litz. Thought i would go for the thicker cabled stock version, as Cardas is already high quality.


----------



## rkw

kartik7405 said:


> The difference between ve zen and ve zen black 2(cardas one)  is day and night.


 
  
 Can you describe the difference? I have the standard Zen 2.


----------



## music4mhell

kartik7405 said:


> townyj said:
> 
> 
> > So i went with the normal Diomnes. Trying to toss up whether i wanted fancy cable over the Standard Cardas cable. Will give some impressions when they arrive
> ...


 
 You should quote me and say "Thanks" for the audition lol


----------



## slim311

chinmie said:


> just received the qian 39 and the red Ty Hi Z32s two days ago and spend some time listening and comparing to the black Ty Hi Z (L jack). here is some of my findings:
> -the red one doesn't need too much burn in to sound great, unlike the black one (it sounded horrible ootb)
> -the sound character is really similar, but the red one is clearer. also the black one has an annoying low mid frequency that really bothers me, making it unsuitable for long listening (i can only describe it like a "bomp" sound in the bass and kick). the red one doesn't have that annoying freq bump
> -the cables and the accessories are nicer
> ...




- re burn-in, I found the same thing: the TY32 sounded hollow and thin initially, but filled in nicely

- my TY32 don't really have a mid-bass hump, they are smooth down low, more rumbly and less boomy, but I was listening to them foam-less so maybe that could be part of the difference?

- I agree on Qian39, although the sound isn't my absolute favorite, the smaller shells are super comfortable


----------



## chinmie

slim311 said:


> - re burn-in, I found the same thing: the TY32 sounded hollow and thin initially, but filled in nicely
> 
> - my TY32 don't really have a mid-bass hump, they are smooth down low, more rumbly and less boomy, but I was listening to them foam-less so maybe that could be part of the difference?
> 
> - I agree on Qian39, although the sound isn't my absolute favorite, the smaller shells are super comfortable




it's not really a big bump, but like there is a filled frequency in the lowmid area on the black one... it's not really noticeable, but i do felt it. other than that they both sound similar


----------



## gobin

Hi guys, don't know how many times it's been asked but I need to know between Monk Plus and TY HI-Z 32ohm, which one should I get?
  
 Also, have anyone tried these DIY 32Ohm from FAAERL (I assume, since it's written on the housing), if yes, then how is it compared to the 2 I mentioned above. Because, that cable looks unmatched with the price tag.
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIFI-In-ear-Earphone-DIY-Metal-Heavy-Bass-Sound-Quality-Music-Earphones-HIFI-Earbuds-DJ-Earphones/32672730349.html?scm=1007.12873.42117.0&pvid=cccf0bc8-4f9b-4f52-bd34-71f1eeefc61c&tpp=1
  
 Many thanks in advance.


----------



## 1TrickPony

rkw said:


> Can you describe the difference? I have the standard Zen 2.



I second this. Though I'm sure I'll get the balanced powered version script. Lol might as well. Help the inquiring minds will ya?


----------



## kartik7405

rkw said:


> Can you describe the difference? I have the standard Zen 2.


 
  


music4mhell said:


> You should quote me and say "Thanks" for the audition lol


 
 i just  auditioned @music4mhell massive earbud collection.Now i redirect your request to him;he will better assist you in this regard.


----------



## slim311

gobin said:


> Hi guys, don't know how many times it's been asked but I need to know between Monk Plus and TY HI-Z 32ohm, which one should I get?
> 
> Also, have anyone tried these DIY 32Ohm from FAAERL (I assume, since it's written on the housing), if yes, then how is it compared to the 2 I mentioned above. Because, that cable looks unmatched with the price tag.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIFI-In-ear-Earphone-DIY-Metal-Heavy-Bass-Sound-Quality-Music-Earphones-HIFI-Earbuds-DJ-Earphones/32672730349.html?scm=1007.12873.42117.0&pvid=cccf0bc8-4f9b-4f52-bd34-71f1eeefc61c&tpp=1
> ...




To my ears, the TY32 is v-shaped with a nice sub-bass and extended highs. Monk+ is somewhat balanced, but with a slight mid-bass emphasis. I only have Fareal 32 v2 (the one you linked is v1), but the v2 version is somewhere in between TY32 and MP; deeper bass, and more present vocals than MP, but not as punchy; not as extended on either end as TY32

It all depends on what sound you are looking for.

And as always, these are just my opinions and YMMV. 

EDIT: the cable on the Fareal 32 v1 isn't anything special, I mean it looks and feels nice, but it's a standard generic cable that can be found on tons of diy buds, it also comes in blue:


----------



## music4mhell

kartik7405 said:


> rkw said:
> 
> 
> > Can you describe the difference? I have the standard Zen 2.
> ...



Ohk Guys, let me listen Zen 2 and Zen black side by side for next few mins and get back to you with fresh differences. That will be more accurate.


----------



## gobin

slim311 said:


> EDIT: the cable on the Fareal 32 v1 isn't anything special, I mean it looks and feels nice, but it's a standard generic cable that can be found on tons of diy buds, it also comes in blue:



well it sure does give a ensuring feel about durability over the MP and TY for me. 

Am I not sure about DIY earbuds, what does it means? Is it like modded version by the company/seller or something along that line. Because I can't imagine DIY as in I have to assemble the earbuds myself.


----------



## Akmola Lola

gobin said:


> Hi guys, don't know how many times it's been asked but I need to know between Monk Plus and TY HI-Z 32ohm, which one should I get?
> 
> Also, have anyone tried these DIY 32Ohm from FAAERL (I assume, since it's written on the housing), if yes, then how is it compared to the 2 I mentioned above. Because, that cable looks unmatched with the price tag.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIFI-In-ear-Earphone-DIY-Metal-Heavy-Bass-Sound-Quality-Music-Earphones-HIFI-Earbuds-DJ-Earphones/32672730349.html?scm=1007.12873.42117.0&pvid=cccf0bc8-4f9b-4f52-bd34-71f1eeefc61c&tpp=1
> ...


 
 Cable is identical to the one used with MusicMaker Tomahawk..


----------



## slim311

gobin said:


> well it sure does give a ensuring feel about durability over the MP and TY for me.
> 
> Am I not sure about DIY earbuds, what does it means? Is it like modded version by the company/seller or something along that line. Because I can't imagine DIY as in I have to assemble the earbuds myself.




Yes, the former is correct. A company buys the shells, drivers, cable etc and tunes it to their liking and puts it all together. Or sometimes modifies an existing earbud. No assembly required.


----------



## music4mhell

rkw said:


> kartik7405 said:
> 
> 
> > The difference between ve zen and ve zen black 2(cardas one)  is day and night.
> ...


 
 Ok, i just compared both.
  
 Zen 2        : Vocal is dense and warm, Highs rolled off. Mid bass is more prominent.
 Zen Black  : Vocal is more open compare to Zen 2, Highs are not rolled off, Bass is fuller and more tight and punchy. And better soundstage, but far better resolution and separation than Zen 2.
  
 I hadn't listened Zen 2 from last many months, but now i am using it with Walnut player for nn the go solution.
  
 Fyi : My Cypherus CAX has been shipped, so will be here next week. Then there will be clash of clans between Zen black and CAX Black. I believe both have Cardas cables.


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> Ok, i just compared both.
> 
> Zen 2        : Vocal is dense and warm, Highs rolled off. Mid bass is more prominent.
> Zen Black  : Vocal is more open compare to Zen 2, Highs are not rolled off, Bass is fuller and more tight and punchy. And better soundstage, but far better resolution and separation than Zen 2.
> ...


 
 Getting a Zen 2 again is my only real priority right now, along with recabling my e808s, so I'll be curious to hear your comparison.
  
 I don't really wanna pay full price for the zen 2 though, so that has been keeping me from getting one again... i want those sweet forward mids.


----------



## Willber

gobin said:


> Hi guys, don't know how many times it's been asked but I need to know between Monk Plus and TY HI-Z 32ohm, which one should I get?


 
  
 If you're interested in more (and better IMO) budget earbuds have a look at this thread:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds


----------



## Danneq

For sweet forward mids nothing comes close to QFred. But $240 with shipping for a pair of midcentric earbuds? I think it was worth it, at least for me as they were my experience with Cypherus buds. But they could just as well cost $50 less. Still, Zen 2 doesn't come close. Zen 2 does have more groove and PRAT but far from the same sweet mids.


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> For sweet forward mids nothing comes close to QFred. But $240 with shipping for a pair of midcentric earbuds? I think it was worth it, at least for me as they were my experience with Cypherus buds. But they could just as well cost $50 less. Still, Zen 2 doesn't come close. Zen 2 does have more groove and PRAT but far from the same sweet mids.


 
 The main deterrent for me aside from the price has been the claims that they break up at louder volumes, and while I do listen quiet from time to time I always end up turning it up. and I've spoken my thoughts on the importance of bass depth to me more times than anyone wants to hear about...


----------



## Danneq

Yeah, you do listen loud. QFred and CAX black use different drivers than CampFred. I have not noticed the same thing on those two. But I have not cranked to volume to max on them like on CampFred. Sub bass is lacking on both Zen 2 and QFred but bass quality is about the same. QFred is just more in the analytical direction (even if it's far from an analytical earbud). It's just the price for such a narrow type of sound that bothers me. Allrounders should cost more since they have a wider use. But that's my opinion...


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> Getting a Zen 2 again is my only real priority right now, along with recabling my e808s, so I'll be curious to hear your comparison.
> 
> I don't really wanna pay full price for the zen 2 though, so that has been keeping me from getting one again... i want those sweet forward mids.


 
 Hahaha, the thing that our vapman calls himself a basshead is a bit misleading because in fact you, vapman, usually give us very good recommendations for balanced if not a bit mid-centric earbuds. Examples of your favorit earbuds are HiFiMAN ES100, Red De'mun, Monk+ , Asura 2, Qian39 - not really bass monsters unEQed. And then somebody buys Qian39 and expects it to offer huge bass, but no - Qian39 is a bit v-shaped but otherwise pretty balanced earbud.
  
 By the way, I still don't own Asura 2 and I wonder if I should get one.


----------



## purplesun

gobin said:


> Hi guys, don't know how many times it's been asked but I need to know between Monk Plus and TY HI-Z 32ohm, which one should I get?
> 
> Also, have anyone tried these DIY 32Ohm from FAAERL (I assume, since it's written on the housing), if yes, then how is it compared to the 2 I mentioned above. Because, that cable looks unmatched with the price tag.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIFI-In-ear-Earphone-DIY-Metal-Heavy-Bass-Sound-Quality-Music-Earphones-HIFI-Earbuds-DJ-Earphones/32672730349.html?scm=1007.12873.42117.0&pvid=cccf0bc8-4f9b-4f52-bd34-71f1eeefc61c&tpp=1


 
  
 Choice between Monk+ & TY32 is usually down to personal taste rather than what's more popular, as they are quite different sounding. Can't you get both? They don't cost much. Anyway, here's 4 budget earbuds to start with & have the best chance of you liking 1 of them: Monk+, E808+(or TY32), Qian39 & SHE3800.
  
 Also, IMHO, higher material cost does not usually equate to better sound quality for an individual; we all have more expensive earbuds that gets less ear-time than cheaper ones.


----------



## 1TrickPony

danneq said:


> Yeah, you do listen loud. QFred and CAX black use different drivers than CampFred. I have not noticed the same thing on those two. But I have not cranked to volume to max on them like on CampFred. Sub bass is lacking on both Zen 2 and QFred but bass quality is about the same. QFred is just more in the analytical direction (even if it's far from an analytical earbud). It's just the price for such a narrow type of sound that bothers me. Allrounders should cost more since they have a wider use. But that's my opinion...




Thanks for the valuable input. Yeah 200$ as price tag is pushing a bit for me. The Asura 2 didn't cut it for me in regards how the (upper) mids were presented. Still the Zen 2.0 regular is pretty solid for its price.


----------



## AkashS04

Any idea why few earbuds cost really high price like $700 or $800 or even more than $1k-1.5k? I don't think the cables are made up of Gold or Platinum or some thing like that or the speakers are of pure gold.


----------



## mochill

They are diamond and sapphire


----------



## AkashS04

Hmmm... But these companies are so pure that they even don't mention that they are using Diamonds in their earphones...


----------



## AkashS04

bloodypenguin said:


> Yes, finally got myself a pair!  It is not quite as bassy as I thought it would be, but we are talking with zero burn in.  I like how they sound so far though, maybe some deeper lows will come in after a little time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 When you listen to Qian39 for some time, let me know if it improves and you can feel punching and Boomy Bass and Warm sound in Qian39. I am considering to buy this


----------



## AkashS04

Did anyone try to get Valore EP-0008 from Singapore? You will forget Qian39 or even most the discussed Earbuds here if you listen to them. I am not regretting why I did not buy it before leavig Singapore.


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> Hahaha, the thing that our vapman calls himself a basshead is a bit misleading because in fact you, vapman, usually give us very good recommendations for balanced if not a bit mid-centric earbuds. Examples of your favorit earbuds are HiFiMAN ES100, Red De'mun, Monk+ , Asura 2, Qian39 - not really bass monsters unEQed. And then somebody buys Qian39 and expects it to offer huge bass, but no - Qian39 is a bit v-shaped but otherwise pretty balanced earbud.
> 
> By the way, I still don't own Asura 2 and I wonder if I should get one.




With more mid centric earbuds you can bass boost yourself. I'm not a bass head but I usually boost sub bass. The only exception was Zen 1. CampFred has got the second best sub bass I have ever heard in an earbud but it can still benefit from a little sub bass boost. I don't understand how VE managed to pack such a punch in Zen 1...




1trickpony said:


> Thanks for the valuable input. Yeah 200$ as price tag is pushing a bit for me. The Asura 2 didn't cut it for me in regards how the (upper) mids were presented. Still the Zen 2.0 regular is pretty solid for its price.




If QFred was the same price as Zen 2 there would be no question which one to pick. While Zen 2 is more "groovy" QFred is miles ahead when it comes to accuracy. One guy who bought both CampFred and QFred after reading my posts wrote that QFred sounds like how he hoped that Zen 2 would have sounded like.

I just pushed QFred to the max on my iRiver H140. It sounded very loud and not very nice to listen to, but it didn't feel like the sound "collapsed" like on CampFred (I do not like to push the volume too high since to my ears it kills all dynamics in the music, no matter the ear- or headphone). QFred is 70ohm compared to Campfred's 32ohm. I don't remember the sensitivity but CampFred is VERY easy to drive.




akashs04 said:


> Any idea why few earbuds cost really high price like $700 or $800 or even more than $1k-1.5k? I don't think the cables are made up of Gold or Platinum or some thing like that or the speakers are of pure gold.




That is strange since the best earbuds can sound as good as the best IEMs. The most expensive ones I have seen are that very limited Thai earbud for $600 that golov17 posted, VE Zen 2 black for around $350 and Cypherus CAX black for $280 (excluding shipping).

One guy who bought CAX black before me completely abandoned IEMs after buying CAX black. Another who owns $1500 LCD X headphones wrote in the Cypherus thread that CAX black was almost on the same level as his LCD X. He also owns Sennheiser MX985, Rose Mojito and Sony MDR-E484 but seems to think that CAX black blow them away. I also cannot compare CAX black to any other earbud I have heard. It's just so much more accurate and neutral.

But that does not stop me from spending over $200 on ABnormal Diomnes Lv2 and to anxiously await the release of the next Blox flagship...

By the way, for those who missed out on the now discontinued CAX black, there will probably be a new flagship Cypherus earbud released later this year, hopefully on the same level as CAX black. And there might be an entry level Cypherus earbud as well...

EDIT: according to rumors I have heard, the upcoming VE flagship Nirvana will be the most expensive earbuds released yet...


----------



## golov17

Price discount on AE for Yinman150 27usd, and 500ohm 55usd


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Ok, who wants to try this one out?  $13 USD:

 www.aliexpress.com/item/100-New-Arrival-In-ear-Earphones-Flat-Head-Plug-DIY-Earphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds-DJ-Earbuds/32759573651.html


  
  

  
 --


----------



## Saoshyant

bloodypenguin said:


> Ok, who wants to try this one out?  $13 USD:
> 
> www.aliexpress.com/item/100-New-Arrival-In-ear-Earphones-Flat-Head-Plug-DIY-Earphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds-DJ-Earbuds/32759573651.html
> 
> ...




I've been debating, just unsure as it's kind of a blind purchase


----------



## flamesofarctica

bloodypenguin said:


> Ok, who wants to try this one out?  $13 USD:
> 
> www.aliexpress.com/item/100-New-Arrival-In-ear-Earphones-Flat-Head-Plug-DIY-Earphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds-DJ-Earbuds/32759573651.html
> 
> ...




It's waiting for me at the post office with my other Walnut :-D so I should know tomorrow morning


----------



## BloodyPenguin

flamesofarctica said:


> It's waiting for me at the post office with my other Walnut :-D so I should know tomorrow morning


 
  
 Nice!  Looking forward to your impressions!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 --


----------



## mochill

Got e1008 finally


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> Hahaha, the thing that our vapman calls himself a basshead is a bit misleading because in fact you, vapman, usually give us very good recommendations for balanced if not a bit mid-centric earbuds. Examples of your favorit earbuds are HiFiMAN ES100, Red De'mun, Monk+ , Asura 2, Qian39 - not really bass monsters unEQed. And then somebody buys Qian39 and expects it to offer huge bass, but no - Qian39 is a bit v-shaped but otherwise pretty balanced earbud.
> 
> By the way, I still don't own Asura 2 and I wonder if I should get one.


 
 Hahaha. Yes and then I run them through this EQ and two (check em...  two) amps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 I do have to admit I've been spending more time destroying my eardrums by force with my SZ2000 but any bud that can take that kind of EQ through 2 amps and not distort is a winner in my book. And yes I do love forward mids and a nice balanced sound, but if it can't take the above EQ without any problem they don't make the cut for me. So anything I recommend you can be sure can take up to 30dB bass boost in the sub regions....
  
 PS the SZ2000 has awesome and ultra forward mids,just how I like them, along with my skull rattling bass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and i'm more often using earbuds when I'm letting my ears recover from SPL hell 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Regarding Asura 2.0.... i find it to be an interesting counterpart to the red demun but it's just not as good. It's revealing in different ways, and has far better clarity than the Monk, as well as better treble and bass extension, but isn't a priority IMO, it should be in the collection of earbud lovers who have a good variety of nice buds, since no other bud really does its job well - it has strong mids, exceptional reach on both ends of the spectrum without exaggeration, making it suitable for either non-EQ or EQ'd listening, whereas I feel the Edimun v3 does not take to EQ well at all. I only use Edimun when I am listening on my Walnut or another source without EQ personally...


----------



## rkw

mochill said:


> Got e1008 finally


 
 I got mine a week ago and like it lot. Actually I like it more than the Zen 2, which has better bass but too much coloration for classical music.
  
 There is someone here who likes the EO320 more than the E1008 after burning in. I don't have EO320 to compare, but on its own I find the E1008 to be very good.


----------



## headjelly

golov17 said:


> Price discount on AE for Yinman150 27usd, and 500ohm 55usd


 
  
 How do you get this price?


----------



## notamethlab

golov17 said:


> Price discount on AE for Yinman150 27usd, and 500ohm 55usd


 
 Which one is the one with the brown cable and which one is the one with the silver cable???


----------



## vapman

notamethlab said:


> Which one is the one with the brown cable and which one is the one with the silver cable???


 
 You can get both models with either cable, I got the brown cable myself as I am a fan of pure copper sound, but I don't remember which of  which Golov has.
  
 Mr Tao is doing 20% off commission until the 17th so I actually ended up placing another taobao order.. But, I didn't need the other Yinman just yet so I didn't grab it. All cheapo buds this time.


----------



## slim311

vapman said:


> All cheapo buds this time.




I will probably wait until after chinese new year, but my next taobao order will probably be cheapos as well. Got my eye on Vido, Hifikiwi Honey Buzzard, and "Erzu" buds in addition to some interesting looking DIY pairs. I hate/love this thread!


----------



## purplesun

slim311 said:


> I will probably wait until after chinese new year, but my next taobao order will probably be cheapos as well. Got my eye on Vido, Hifikiwi Honey Buzzard, and "Erzu" buds in addition to some interesting looking DIY pairs. I hate/love this thread!


 
  
 The uncharted waters of sub-$2 earbuds!
 Leave your self-esteem at the door and proceed with care.
 May you bring back untold sonic treasures from the mysterious Orient!


----------



## vapman

^ Good song!
  
 I am gonna have to be more active in this thread for a little while. I've spent a week mostly using my SZ2000's double amped and my ears are enjoying all the time off they're getting. I will be happy when I find a bud which can offer more impressive bass depth & control while maintaining a solid midrange.


----------



## yacobx

What's a good earbud 32ohm or under that is 2.5 mm trrs


----------



## vapman

yacobx said:


> What's a good earbud 32ohm or under that is 2.5 mm trrs


 
 Monk+! But, i don't know anything else. Get a Qian  and recable it, i bet they would be killer balanced.


----------



## Saoshyant

@vapman Any suggestions for taobao items to order?  Or anyone really as I'm sure there are things on there others are curious about.  Was thinking of putting together an order in a couple days now that you mention the discount currently going on.  I was going to see how much the Yinman 600 was on taobao, but haven't found a link for it yet.  Will also look over Rose Tech's page.


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> @vapman Any suggestions for taobao items to order?  Or anyone really as I'm sure there are things on there others are curious about.  Was thinking of putting together an order in a couple days now that you mention the discount currently going on.  I was going to see how much the Yinman 600 was on taobao, but haven't found a link for it yet.  Will also look over Rose Tech's page.


 
 Having never heard either the 500 or 600 ohm model of Yinman, I'd recommend the 150 or 500. My reason for saying this; Golov who I always trust likes the 500 better than the 150 but says you need an amp. I should get the 500 cause I always am amping. But I love my 150. I will not try the 600 because I don't like detachable cables and there is no way the driver wouldn't sound better hardcabled like the rest of them.... If I ever bought a 600 i would ask them to hard cable it and not even bother with the mmcx.


----------



## slim311

saoshyant said:


> @vapman
> Any suggestions for taobao items to order?  Or anyone really as I'm sure there are things on there others are curious about.  Was thinking of putting together an order in a couple days now that you mention the discount currently going on.  I was going to see how much the Yinman 600 was on taobao, but haven't found a link for it yet.  Will also look over Rose Tech's page.



Here's a few random buds at varying price points that I haven't seen on ali, only taobao:

Hifikiwi Honey Buzzard H1 $4

Erzu earbuds $4

KAPH Z500 $6

LingSi X35 $7

Dark Horse Bass DIY $14

7-z ED-2001 $21

edit: I forgot Vido for less than $1


----------



## Saoshyant

@slim311 I very well might end up ordering all of them.  My budget earbud collection feels like it's getting sizable, and most likely will grow with this purchase.


----------



## vapman

slim311 said:


> Here's a few random buds at varying price points that I haven't seen on ali, only taobao:
> 
> 
> 
> LingSi X35 $7


 
 I'm intersted in this, you heard this one?


----------



## slim311

vapman said:


> I'm intersted in this, you heard this one?




I have not, but it will probably be in my next order.

Maybe AudioNewbi3 can chime in, if you search "Lingsi x35" he shows up as the only result, and has them listed in his profile.


----------



## Saoshyant

Doing some page hopping, found a taobao link for Yinman 600, but surprisingly it seems to be cheaper on Aliexpress https://world.taobao.com/item/541793609451.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a312a.7700824.w5003-15597866862.2.9bP8VN&scene=taobao_shop
  
 Unless someone knows of a better link that is.


----------



## slim311

saoshyant said:


> @slim311
> I very well might end up ordering all of them.  My budget earbud collection feels like it's getting sizable, and most likely will grow with this purchase.




Mine as well. And my amazon wish list is filled with other buds on my radar. (the amazon add to wish list extension in chrome is the best thing ever)

I'm shooting for 100 pairs!


----------



## vapman

slim311 said:


> Mine as well. And my amazon wish list is filled with other buds on my radar. (the amazon add to wish list extension in chrome is the best thing ever)
> 
> I'm shooting for 100 pairs


 
 You're gonna get a third of the way there before figuring out how to store all of them drives you insane. Any time I take out more than a couple buds at once to compare, suddenly i have ten sets tangled up and i have to figure out where to put them all. 
  
 All I can say it I am thankful Qians come in those tins. You can fit 3 in one after you throw away the foam inserts


----------



## slim311

vapman said:


> You're gonna get a third of the way there before figuring out how to store all of them drives you insane. Any time I take out more than a couple buds at once to compare, suddenly i have ten sets tangled up and i have to figure out where to put them all.
> 
> All I can say it I am thankful Qians come in those tins. You can fit 3 in one after you throw away the foam inserts




Good thing I live alone, nobody to harass me about too many buds around.  Right now I have them all in a drawer, I might have to buy a new dresser at this rate.

The Fareal tins are pretty good too, you can easily fit a half dozen or more in there.


----------



## vapman

slim311 said:


> Good thing I live alone, nobody to harass me about too many buds around.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Never had a Fareal, if they come with tins thats good. Most of mine are stuffed in some XL eGo camo cases i got on clearance for $1.50 each. Then the box my TY 650 came in has the 650, Edimun, Red Demun and Candy monks, and I have 3 sets in each of my Qian tins, one in use and two still on the table. Ridiculous. Nobody harasses me about it, but it gets frustrating when you can't pick up one pair of buds without having 5 other  pairs tangled into it come up too


----------



## slim311

My Fareal 32 didn't come with a tin, only a standard zip-up bud/iem case, but my 64's came in these:



I think I'm also gonna get some velcro ties, they come in a 50 pack for 9 bucks on amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00O9VKVFK

seems like a better idea than messing with twist ties or just leaving them loose, but I'm kinda OCD like that


----------



## gobin

purplesun said:


> Choice between Monk+ & TY32 is usually down to personal taste rather than what's more popular, as they are quite different sounding. Can't you get both? They don't cost much. Anyway, here's 4 budget earbuds to start with & have the best chance of you liking 1 of them: Monk+, E808+(or TY32), Qian39 & SHE3800.
> 
> Also, IMHO, higher material cost does not usually equate to better sound quality for an individual; we all have more expensive earbuds that gets less ear-time than cheaper ones.


 
 I absolutely agree that fancier cable doesn't make the earbuds sound any better, but I'm just really into the look of the earbuds as a whole.
  
 Thanks for the suggestions


----------



## vapman

gobin said:


> I absolutely agree that fancier cable doesn't make the earbuds sound any better, but I'm just really into the look of the earbuds as a whole.
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions


 
 Wait until you start cable rolling on some budget champions. You'll take that right back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 (edit: fancier cable is debatable, but it doesn't need to be expensive or fancy to sound good)


----------



## gobin

vapman said:


> Wait until you start cable rolling on some budget champions. You'll take that right back
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 well, in that case, I assume the DIY version's sound may varies from that of the original.
  
 Does anyone have these beauty?
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIFI-In-ear-Earphone-64-Ohm-DIY-Heavy-Bass-Sound-Quality-Music-Earphones-HIFI-Earbuds-DJ/32677773445.html?scm=1007.13338.70306.000000000000000&pvid=8855b24a-00c9-4abc-ae6e-69352b7d184b&tpp=1
  
 I would like to know how it is in comparison to the TY HI-Z 32ohm, specifically in term of bass, sound stage, and mid. Might get one of these just because of the cable 
 Thanks
  
 EDIT: I saw slim311 got of the those, waiting for impression from him.


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> @vapman
> Any suggestions for taobao items to order?  Or anyone really as I'm sure there are things on there others are curious about.  Was thinking of putting together an order in a couple days now that you mention the discount currently going on.  I was going to see how much the Yinman 600 was on taobao, but haven't found a link for it yet.  Will also look over Rose Tech's page.


 http://h5.m.taobao.com/awp/core/detail.htm?id=9470820927&toSite=main
http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=a1z5f.7632060.0.0&id=16827585014


----------



## slim311

gobin said:


> well, in that case, I assume the DIY version's sound may varies from that of the original.
> 
> Does anyone have these beauty?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIFI-In-ear-Earphone-64-Ohm-DIY-Heavy-Bass-Sound-Quality-Music-Earphones-HIFI-Earbuds-DJ/32677773445.html?scm=1007.13338.70306.000000000000000&pvid=8855b24a-00c9-4abc-ae6e-69352b7d184b&tpp=1
> ...




Honestly, they are my least favorite of all the buds I have at the moment, while TY32 is at the top (granted, I am still in budget range). They are relatively neutral, but just sound boring to me. I do like the braided cable though (it is similar to Monk+ Candy braided cable, but ever so slightly thinner, but the Candy just looks so much nicer with the red/blue leading to each shell). I will do some more listening tomorrow when I get home from work and give some more indepth comparison. Bedtime for me now.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Alright guys, for those who purchased a Red De'mun before, how long dies it take for the to reply your emails?

 I have emailed them and they replied the next day, however, my subsequent email reply was sent on the 9th of January and until today, there is still no reply from De'mun Cables.

 Was planning to buy another earbud which is under 100USD.

 Any recommendations?
  
 On my radar currently:

 Red De'num
 Pure Sounds PS100-500
 Yinman 500 Ohm
 Aidex 
  
  
 How does the Yinman 500Ohm sound for those who have it?

 Thank-you
  
 P.S. Those who know me know that I am a sound-stage, treble, and detail head.


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> Alright guys, for those who purchased a Red De'mun before, how long dies it take for the to reply your emails?
> 
> I have emailed them and they replied the next day, however, my subsequent email reply was sent on the 9th of January and until today, there is still no reply from De'mun Cables.
> 
> Was planning to buy another earbud which is under 100USD.


 
 Really long! I asked them probably 3 times in different emails about getting another headphone done by them. Eventaully got an answer. Now i'm trying to get them to make a finished cable I can attach to a bud of my own, and probably won't hear back from a while, but I'm in the middle of a BBM conversation with Iriyan of Bengkel so I might tell him to tell MR Kandela to check his dang emails!
  
 If you have FB bug him on either his personal page or the Demun page.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> Really long! I asked them probably 3 times in different emails about getting another headphone done by them. Eventaully got an answer. Now i'm trying to get them to make a finished cable I can attach to a bud of my own, and probably won't hear back from a while, but I'm in the middle of a BBM conversation with Iriyan of Bengkel so I might tell him to tell MR Kandela to check his dang emails!
> 
> If you have FB bug him on either his personal page or the Demun page.


 
 Thanks for the help mate! I really appreciate it!

 In the email I got from presumably Mr Kandela, he mentions that the Red De'mun is now on V2.


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> Thanks for the help mate! I really appreciate it!
> 
> In the email I got from presumably Mr Kandela, he mentions that the Red De'mun is now on V2.


 
 Ooooh. When did you get that email? I'm sure mine is a V1 but it's so damn good I would put down money for a V2 and probably use my De'muns a lot more often if I had two. (@Tomasz2D  and I are holding down the Red De'mun Superiority Club)
  
 Right now I am just waiting for nicer cable and connectors to show up so I can pimp out the Qian39 as much as I can. Once I know I've got all I can out of the Q39 driver i'll be happy.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> Ooooh. When did you get that email? I'm sure mine is a V1 but it's so damn good I would put down money for a V2 and probably use my De'muns a lot more often if I had two. (@Tomasz2D  and I are holding down the Red De'mun Superiority Club)
> 
> Right now I am just waiting for nicer cable and connectors to show up so I can pimp out the Qian39 as much as I can. Once I know I've got all I can out of the Q39 driver i'll be happy.


 
 I got the email on the 8th or 9th of January 2017 mate!

 60USD pricing


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> I got the email on the 8th or 9th of January 2017 mate!
> 
> 60USD pricing


 
 Heck yes dude! I just sent em an email asking to buy another red demun. Wanna hear that V2, and hopefully get a cable too.


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> Alright guys, for those who purchased a Red De'mun before, how long dies it take for the to reply your emails?
> 
> 
> I have emailed them and they replied the next day, however, my subsequent email reply was sent on the 9th of January and until today, there is still no reply from De'mun Cables.
> ...


 If you're going to take Yinman500, do not forget to also take a 150 ohm, they also super


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> If you're going to take Yinman500, do not forget to also take a 150 ohm, they also super




Different enough should have 150 and 500?


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Different enough should have 150 and 500?


for me, yes


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Gonna say, I'm pretty impressed by the Qian39. I like it a lot more than the TY32s, it doesn't hurt my ears and it's super comfortable!

Does anyone know if there is a iPhone MIC version of the Qian39?

Anyone doing Modding Service like recabling?


----------



## Tomasz2D

slim311 said:


> Good thing I live alone, nobody to harass me about too many buds around.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Look here... this is how pro do it... ))


----------



## flamesofarctica

bloodypenguin said:


> Nice!  Looking forward to your impressions!
> 
> --






Picked 'em up from the postie, will give my impressions once I've had a good listen :-D


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> If you're going to take Yinman500, do not forget to also take a 150 ohm, they also super


 
 May I kindly know the sound signature of the Yinman 500Ohm? Is it warm? Neutral? Bright?


----------



## Majin

midnightempest said:


> Gonna say, I'm pretty impressed by the Qian39. I like it slot more than the TY32s, it doesn't hurt my ears and it's super comfortable!
> 
> Does anyone know if there is a iPhone MIC version of the Qian39?
> 
> Anyone doing Modding Service like recabling?


 
  
 I wish there was a cheap earbud with a mic. So far the only one that i can find is the monk+


----------



## Tomasz2D

majin said:


> I wish there was a cheap earbud with a mic. So far the only one that i can find is the monk+


 
 Meizu EP21HD is only around $4.


----------



## golov17

audionewbi3 said:


> May I kindly know the sound signature of the Yinman 500Ohm? Is it warm? Neutral? Bright?


and bright and soft at the same time.. interesting mix


----------



## Willber

tomasz2d said:


> majin said:
> 
> 
> > I wish there was a cheap earbud with a mic. So far the only one that i can find is the monk+
> ...


 

 Where can you get it for that? It seems to be $15-20 at most places.


----------



## flamesofarctica

majin said:


> I wish there was a cheap earbud with a mic. So far the only one that i can find is the monk+


 Of interest, why not the Monk+ in that case?


----------



## Tomasz2D

willber said:


> Where can you get it for that? It seems to be $15-20 at most places.


 
  
In this shop you can choose standard and HD (128 Ohm) versions. Both for under $4.


----------



## Willber

tomasz2d said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Where can you get it for that? It seems to be $15-20 at most places.
> ...


 

 Thanks, they didn't come up in my search.


----------



## Tomasz2D

willber said:


> Thanks, they didn't come up in my search.


 
 Try searching "EP-21HD" only. HERE is another one for under $3 (but + $1 for delivery).


----------



## Willber

tomasz2d said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks, they didn't come up in my search.
> ...


 

 I did that but the only AE result was this one:
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-Meizu-EP21HD-3-5mm-In-ear-Earphones-for-MX4-MX4-pro-High-Quality-Headphone-HIFI/1535256_32239489973.html
  
 Thanks for your links anyway.


----------



## PureSounds-cn

mochill said:


> hi friend , can't wait to hear ps600 balanced



waiting for your full review buddy


----------



## PureSounds-cn

vapman said:


> Having never heard either the 500 or 600 ohm model of Yinman, I'd recommend the 150 or 500. My reason for saying this; Golov who I always trust likes the 500 better than the 150 but says you need an amp. I should get the 500 cause I always am amping. But I love my 150. I will not try the 600 because I don't like detachable cables and there is no way the driver wouldn't sound better hardcabled like the rest of them.... If I ever bought a 600 i would ask them to hard cable it and not even bother with the mmcx.



when arriving ，you will find ps100-600 hve a good performance on potable dsd players。But before review ，we recommend burn it about 100 hours firstly


----------



## AudioNewbi3

golov17 said:


> and bright and soft at the same time.. interesting mix


 
 0.o Bright and soft at the same time? Now that really is something which you dont see everyday.

 Now I am even more intrigued!


----------



## PureSounds-cn

vapman said:


> Having never heard either the 500 or 600 ohm model of Yinman, I'd recommend the 150 or 500. My reason for saying this; Golov who I always trust likes the 500 better than the 150 but says you need an amp. I should get the 500 cause I always am amping. But I love my 150. I will not try the 600 because I don't like detachable cables and there is no way the driver wouldn't sound better hardcabled like the rest of them.... If I ever bought a 600 i would ask them to hard cable it and not even bother with the mmcx.



when arriving ，you will find ps100-600 hve a good performance on potable dsd players。But before review ，we recommend burn it about 100 hours firstly


----------



## Majin

tomasz2d said:


> Look here... this is how pro do it... ))


 
  
 I need one of those cases.
  
 I just ordered the qian25 and ty hi-z 32. When the paycheck comes in i will try some random earbuds with mic.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

What do you guys think of the AUGLAMOUR RX-1? I've only seen reviews of one person that said it had bad sound quality.


----------



## Tomasz2D

majin said:


> I need one of those cases.


 
 The one on my pictures is Prosperplast NOR20DUO http://www.prosperplast.com/tool-boxes-organisers/2019-organizer-nor-duo.html
 I think they are made here in Poland so they cost only around 10 EUR here. I see that on Amazon.de they are for 18 EUR so almost double price.


----------



## rkw

golov17 said:


> audionewbi3 said:
> 
> 
> > May I kindly know the sound signature of the Yinman 500Ohm? Is it warm? Neutral? Bright?
> ...


 
  
 What earbuds would you say the Yinman signature is similar to? How is bass output on Yinman?


----------



## Majin

flamesofarctica said:


> Of interest, why not the Monk+ in that case?


 
  
 They are prolly my fav earbud right now but to pay +$4 just for the mic seems a bit meh and i want to try out new earbuds.


----------



## golov17

rkw said:


> What earbuds would you say the Yinman signature is similar to? How is bass output on Yinman?


Hmm.. maybe Blox b200, bass fast and HQ


----------



## gobin

flamesofarctica said:


> Picked 'em up from the postie, will give my impressions once I've had a good listen :-D


 
 Would you mind doing a listen without amp and dac with these, just to see how easy it is the drive. That will be much appreciated


----------



## music4mhell

majin said:


> flamesofarctica said:
> 
> 
> > Of interest, why not the Monk+ in that case?
> ...


Remax 303
TP16


----------



## flamesofarctica

gobin said:


> Would you mind doing a listen without amp and dac with these, just to see how easy it is the drive. That will be much appreciated


 Yes I'll try in the morning with my phone, that should give a good indication


----------



## Majin

tomasz2d said:


> Meizu EP21HD is only around $4.


 
  
 Are they any good?


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> Remax 303
> TP16


1more eo303,320,1008


----------



## Tomasz2D

laughmoredaily said:


> What do you guys think of the AUGLAMOUR RX-1? I've only seen reviews of one person that said it had bad sound quality.


 
 One of my favorite earbuds. I like them because musical instruments and vocals sound so true and real in them. No coloration, just a bit of rounding around the edges. But if you are looking for fun and toe-taping (PRAT) earbuds with inflated soundstage - they are not like that. A lot of people here dislike them so think twice before you order them.


----------



## notamethlab

flamesofarctica said:


> Yes I'll try in the morning with my phone, that should give a good indication


 
Any impressions on the sound?


----------



## Tomasz2D

majin said:


> Are they any good?


 
 EP21HD  - they are OK for $4 headset. They remind me of sound of Philips SHE3800 somehow. But only play/pause buttons work in iOS and in Android. No volume control in my pair.
  
 The best headset IMHO that I am aware of is 1More EO320 - decent sound and buttons control (volume & play/pause) that work flawlessly both in Andorid and iOS based devices.


----------



## Majin

tomasz2d said:


> EP21HD  - they are OK for $4 headset. They remind me of sound of Philips SHE3800 somehow. But only play/pause buttons work in iOS and in Android. No volume control in my pair.
> 
> The best headset IMHO that I am aware of is 1More EO320 - decent sound and buttons control (volume & play/pause) that work flawlessly both in Andorid and iOS based devices.


 
  
 What about skipping songs?
  
 and lol did anybody try this one?
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MX500-In-ear-Headset-Earphone-Heavy-bass-Music-Wired-Headphone-with-volume-adjustment-for-MP3-Cellphone/32498425938.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.119.muBgM4&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1_10065_10068_10000009_9986_10084_10000025_10083_10080_10000029_10082_10081_10000028_10110_10111_10060_10112_10113_10062_10114_10056_10055_10037_10054_10059_10032_10099_10078_10079_10000022_10077_10000012_10103_10073_10102_10000015_10096_10000018_10000019_10052_10053_10107_10050_10106_10051-9986_10054_10112,searchweb201603_9,afswitch_5_afChannel,single_sort_3_default&btsid=9847bffe-14e1-46c2-914b-3cec6bb32fa6


----------



## Tomasz2D

majin said:


> What about skipping songs?


 
  
 Skipping is not supported. Just listen to full albums as intended by artists


----------



## vapman

Someone here lent me their Samsung earbuds to give them a listen. I thought they were crazy how close it was to the sony mdr e8x8 lineup (e808/808+ not included) in terms of... Well... Everything. Soundstage, signature, imaging, tonal balance and the whole thing. If i knew what model it was i could hype it up but i forget the name, never wrote it down and already sent it back to its owner.


----------



## Frederick Wang

audionewbi3 said:


> I got the email on the 8th or 9th of January 2017 mate!
> 
> 60USD pricing


 
 And how much did you pay for shipment?


----------



## tinkertailor

vapman said:


> Someone here lent me their Samsung earbuds to give them a listen. I thought they were crazy how close it was to the sony mdr e8x8 lineup (e808/808+ not included) in terms of... Well... Everything. Soundstage, signature, imaging, tonal balance and the whole thing. If i knew what model it was i could hype it up but i forget the name, never wrote it down and already sent it back to its owner.


 
 Yes, that was me, the thing is they didn't have a model number. They just said SRS on the side. I think SRS was some proprietary sound thing Samsung were putting out (like their version of 5.1 surround sound or something I think). I sent them to Vapman thinking they had decent bass, he laughed in the face of the bass calling it weak and puny, like a woman (kidding women! most of you could kick my axx anyways) The buds look like this.  The reason i got excited about htem is cuz i just found them in abasement drawer at my parents place, not sure if they came bundled with some device (likely) ages ago. maybe a phone, tablet, or laptop...no clue. I find rating and evaluating quality of sound to be a difficult thing. So much human perception (prone to all the classic follies of that), and its dynamic, bunring in, getting accustomerd to freq. , getting tired or bored of freq., always different songs, quality, devices, etc.


----------



## vapman

LOL i didn't make any gender comparisons but I hope I didn't come across as condescending about the bass levels!! If you/we can find out what the model was it could easily be recommended to vintage Sony sound sig fans. With legit vintage Sony only getting harder to find it's nice for fans of that kind of sound sig to have a wider (and cheaper) variety to pick from.


----------



## Willber

> Originally Posted by *Majin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> and lol did anybody try this one?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MX500-In-ear-Headset-Earphone-Heavy-bass-Music-Wired-Headphone-with-volume-adjustment-for-MP3-Cellphone/32498425938.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.119.muBgM4&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1_10065_10068_10000009_9986_10084_10000025_10083_10080_10000029_10082_10081_10000028_10110_10111_10060_10112_10113_10062_10114_10056_10055_10037_10054_10059_10032_10099_10078_10079_10000022_10077_10000012_10103_10073_10102_10000015_10096_10000018_10000019_10052_10053_10107_10050_10106_10051-9986_10054_10112,searchweb201603_9,afswitch_5_afChannel,single_sort_3_default&btsid=9847bffe-14e1-46c2-914b-3cec6bb32fa6


 
  
 Here would be a good place to ask that question:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds
  
 I don't remember them being mentioned there, perhaps you could be the first to try them? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 But don't be surprised id they sound OK - my favourite buds (in a collection that goes up to $25 - my self-imposed limit) are the Sony E808+ that cost $3.86.


----------



## Majin

willber said:


> Here would be a good place to ask that question:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds
> 
> ...


 
  
 They are on my list. I will order them next week.


----------



## purplesun

willber said:


> But don't be surprised id they sound OK - my favourite buds (in a collection that goes up to $25 - my self-imposed limit) are the Sony E808+ that cost $3.86.


 
  
 Your E808+ must have also clocked up some mileage by now. Are they getting into the well-worn sound yet? A broader-sounding bass with less mid-bass hump and a more settled treble? I dare not use my first E808+ much anymore, for fear of moving the sound away from this. My second E808+'s sound is coming along nicely though.


----------



## gobin

Anyone knows any pair that has silver plated cable that's under $15? It seems to be on >$50 earbuds on AE as far as I know.


----------



## Frederick Wang

gobin said:


> Anyone knows any pair that has silver plated cable that's under $15? It seems to be on >$50 earbuds on AE as far as I know.


 
 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.1.DfXxYm&id=528904724457&ns=1&abbucket=9#detail
  
 a little bit over 15 for the silver cable version


----------



## purplesun

gobin said:


> Anyone knows any pair that has silver plated cable that's under $15? It seems to be on >$50 earbuds on AE as far as I know.


 
 I think K's 64 white should have silver-plated cable.
 Sounds like a brighter Monk+ with less depth of stage.
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/N-K-s-Earphone-64-ohm-Balanced-High-Impedance-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud-64-ohms-Earbud/32757568153.html


----------



## Majin

gobin said:


> Anyone knows any pair that has silver plated cable that's under $15? It seems to be on >$50 earbuds on AE as far as I know.


 
  
 **** PT15 with silver cable.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

purplesun said:


> I think K's 64 white should have silver-plated cable.
> Sounds like a brighter Monk+ with less depth of stage.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/N-K-s-Earphone-64-ohm-Balanced-High-Impedance-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud-64-ohms-Earbud/32757568153.html


 
 **** has much cheaper K 64ohm headphones.
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/K-s-Earphone-64-ohm-Impedance-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud-64-ohms-Earbud-Flat-Head/32780855048.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.nBzAnI


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

gobin said:


> Anyone knows any pair that has silver plated cable that's under $15? It seems to be on >$50 earbuds on AE as far as I know.


 
 What's so special about a silver plated cable? Thanks.


----------



## gobin

frederick wang said:


> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.1.DfXxYm&id=528904724457&ns=1&abbucket=9#detail
> 
> a little bit over 15 for the silver cable version



I'm on my phone so I have absolutely no idea how to navigate to see the silver cable version, let alone doing anything else on the website, 



purplesun said:


> I think K's 64 white should have silver-plated cable.
> Sounds like a brighter Monk+ with less depth of stage.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/N-K-s-Earphone-64-ohm-Balanced-High-Impedance-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud-64-ohms-Earbud/32757568153.html



Isn't the cable similar to that on these guys?
https://m.aliexpress.com/s/item/32672730349.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail&productId=32672730349&productSubject=HIFI-In-ear-Earphone-DIY-Metal-Heavy-Bass-Sound-Quality-Music-Earphones-HIFI-Earbuds-DJ-Earphones&scm=1007.12873.42117.0&pvid=cccf0bc8-4f9b-4f52-bd34-71f1eeefc61c&tpp=1&aff_platform=aaf&cpt=1484439160478&sk=VnYZvQVf&aff_trace_key=cf9cc2c0fdf84e0498e185f872485a8d-1484439160478-04743-VnYZvQVf

I was actually looking for something more like the one on the TY HI-Z 320 or 400 ohm. Guess I'm asking too much, how about $20? 

Originally, I decided to get the TY HI-Z 32, but I'm not pleased with the cable so I chose to spend some more to have an alternative with better cable, and with similar, if not better soud quality.
I'm considering between:
- Fareal 64ohm new version
- The new $13 DIY (still waiting for flamesofarctica's impression. Link: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-New-Arrival-In-ear-Earphones-Flat-Head-Plug-DIY-Earphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds-DJ-Earbuds/32759573651.html) 
- and TY HI-Z 150 (which I still need to know how much of a improvement it has over the ty hi-z 32, provided its nearly four times price)


laughmoredaily said:


> What's so special about a silver plated cable? Thanks.



Just my personal taste, they stand out and look pretty. That's enough reason for me to get them.


----------



## purplesun

laughmoredaily said:


> xxxxxxxx has much cheaper K 64ohm headphones.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/K-s-Earphone-64-ohmxxxxxxx


 
  
 He's Lord Voldemort on Headfi.
 So best not to go around mentioning his store.
 You should search for the infamous incident, few months ago, that brought this on.


----------



## purplesun

gobin said:


> Isn't the cable similar to that on these guys?
> https://m.aliexpress.com/s/item/32672730349.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail&productId=32672730349&productSubject=HIFI-In-ear-Earphone-DIY-Metal-Heavy-Bass-Sound-Quality-Music-Earphones-HIFI-Earbuds-DJ-Earphones&scm=1007.12873.42117.0&pvid=cccf0bc8-4f9b-4f52-bd34-71f1eeefc61c&tpp=1&aff_platform=aaf&cpt=1484439160478&sk=VnYZvQVf&aff_trace_key=cf9cc2c0fdf84e0498e185f872485a8d-1484439160478-04743-VnYZvQVf


 
  
 Looks very different from white K' 64 cable to me.
 And, obviously, have no clue how that will sound like.


----------



## Willber

purplesun said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > But don't be surprised id they sound OK - my favourite buds (in a collection that goes up to $25 - my self-imposed limit) are the Sony E808+ that cost $3.86.
> ...


 

 Yeah, been using them for a few weeks now and they've hit a sweet spot that I don't want to change. Luckily my second pair turned up so the first are having a rest while I'm using them. OOTB they are better than the first and and are shaping up nicely after a couple of days - I'll make sure I've always got a stock of these.
  
 But to mess up my plans my KSC75 clip-ons arrived today. They were freezing cold from a day in the delivery van and sounded horrible to start with, but have improved amazingly in just a couple of hours. Oh, these are going to be very good! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If anyone is interested here is a dedicated thread:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/638757/koss-ksc75s-dont-forget-this-giant-killer-in-all-the-hidden-gem-hype


----------



## rkw

purplesun said:


> laughmoredaily said:
> 
> 
> > xxxxxxxx has much cheaper K 64ohm headphones.
> ...


 
  
 Has it all been deleted? There are no posts by Lord Voldemort since 2013, and searching on that vendor brings up very little.


----------



## golov17

My 808+ much improved with burning in: grain on the highs smoothed out, and the sound as a whole has become more alive. I ordered more for DIY


----------



## purplesun

rkw said:


> Has it all been deleted? There are no posts by Lord Voldemort since 2013, and searching on that vendor brings up very little.


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/684159/chinese-asian-brand-info-thread-headphones-iems-amps-dacs/30105#post_12676708
  
 He also runs the particular store that was mentioned.


----------



## purplesun

golov17 said:


> My 808+ much improved with burning in: grain on the highs smoothed out, and the sound as a whole has become more alive. I ordered more for DIY


 
  
 Recommend pure copper only. Between 30AWG to 25AWG per wire. Any thicker the bass becomes intolerable (for me, at least). Still work-in-progress for my own mods.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

purplesun said:


> He's Lord Voldemort on Headfi.
> So best not to go around mentioning his store.
> You should search for the infamous incident, few months ago, that brought this on.


 
 Oh god, you have me scared... I've been buying all my headphones from him. If there are any problems with people why isn't there a sticky memo?
  
 PS: Should I expect all the headphones I've been buying from their Ali store to be fake?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

laughmoredaily said:


> Oh god, you have me scared... I've been buying all my headphones from him. If there are any problems with people why isn't there a sticky memo?
> 
> PS: Should I expect all the headphones I've been buying from their Ali store to be fake?


 
  
 Lord Voldemort sells good products, but their selling practices have come into question on Head-Fi.
  
 I'm sure what you have bought from them is real and will most likely be in perfect working order.

 --


----------



## purplesun

laughmoredaily said:


> Oh god, you have me scared... I've been buying all my headphones from him. If there are any problems with people why isn't there a sticky memo?
> 
> PS: Thanks for getting me worried for no reason, next time send me some facts. I did a search and couldn't find info on him.


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/684159/chinese-asian-brand-info-thread-headphones-iems-amps-dacs/30105#post_12676708
 He runs the same store you mentioned, AFAIK, there's no restriction on dealing with him.
  
 Sorry, if I scared you by mentioning the evil one 
 Am just passing the message that was pass to me some time ago.


----------



## slim311

gobin said:


> I would like to know how it is in comparison to the TY HI-Z 32ohm, specifically in term of bass, sound stage, and mid. Might get one of these just because of the cable
> 
> EDIT: I saw slim311
> got of the those, waiting for impression from him.






slim311 said:


> Honestly, they are my least favorite of all the buds I have at the moment, while TY32 is at the top (granted, I am still in budget range). They are relatively neutral, but just sound boring to me. I do like the braided cable though (it is similar to Monk+ Candy braided cable, but ever so slightly thinner, but the Candy just looks so much nicer with the red/blue leading to each shell). I will do some more listening tomorrow when I get home from work and give some more indepth comparison. Bedtime for me now.




OK, so I've spend the last 30 or 45 minutes going back and forth with these two buds, in addition to the Monk+ for a reference point. I stand by my original assessment of Fareal 64: neutral, balanced, boring. It's not they are BAD, they are just not my preferred signature. As to your points, bass on TY32 is much deeper than Fareal 64. Treble sounds rolled off on F64 in comparison, but I would call it flat, as it's quite similar to Monk+ without the slight mid-bass emphasis I hear on MP. For mids, I would say the vocals are comparable, but the extended highs of TY32 make the vocals sound better, to my ears anyway. Soundstage, I would give the edge to TY32, although on some tracks it is much closer than others.



gobin said:


> Originally, I decided to get the TY HI-Z 32, but I'm not pleased with the cable so I chose to spend some more to have an alternative with better cable, and with similar, if not better soud quality.
> I'm considering between:
> - Fareal 64ohm new version ( rumors had it's a rebrand of ty hi-z/ same owner. So I expect the SQ to be somewhat identical)




I haven't heard the Fareal 64 2.0 (TBH, I probably won't either, as I'm not a huge fan of the 1.0, even though not having both is making my OCD flare up), but the 1.0 sounds nothing like TY32 to me.

Anyway, hope this was somewhat helpful, and as always these are the opinions of the author, and YMMV.


----------



## golov17

laughmoredaily said:


> Oh god, you have me scared... I've been buying all my headphones from him. If there are any problems with people why isn't there a sticky memo?
> 
> PS: Should I expect all the headphones I've been buying from their Ali store to be fake?


 There is no need to be afraid to bought, this applies only to placement of direct links to his shop in this forum. No any problems for buyers with them..


----------



## slim311

golov17 said:


> There is no need to be afraid to bought, this applies only to placement of direct links to his shop in this forum. No any problems for buyers with them..




I agree with this. I bought nearly all of my 11.11 buds from that store, and have no complaints.


----------



## gobin

slim311 said:


> OK, so I've spend the last 30 or 45 minutes going back and forth with these two buds, in addition to the Monk+ for a reference point. I stand by my original assessment of Fareal 64: neutral, balanced, boring. It's not they are BAD, they are just not my preferred signature. As to your points, bass on TY32 is much deeper than Fareal 64. Treble sounds rolled off on F64 in comparison, but I would call it flat, as it's quite similar to Monk+ without the slight mid-bass emphasis I hear on MP. For mids, I would say the vocals are comparable, but the extended highs of TY32 make the vocals sound better, to my ears anyway. Soundstage, I would give the edge to TY32, although on some tracks it is much closer than others.
> I haven't heard the Fareal 64 2.0 (TBH, I probably won't either, as I'm not a huge fan of the 1.0, even though not having both is making my OCD flare up), but the 1.0 sounds nothing like TY32 to me.
> 
> Anyway, hope this was somewhat helpful, and as always these are the opinions of the author, and YMMV.


 
 Thanks a lot for your effort.
  
 I figure I'll just skip the Fareal 64 ohm then. It has such great form factor, what a shame. Well, we can't have everything we want.
  
 Now I need more impression of the TY Hi-Z 150 ohm and flamesofarctica's new $13 DIY earbuds to decide which one I will pick up for my first open-back-headphones-liked sound experience (if it's somewhat true that earbuds have more open sound stage than IEM). 
  
 I was messing up, I meant to say TY Hi-Z and Seahf have some kind of association, or may have the same owner, so I'm not sure if SQ wise, they're indifferent.


----------



## slim311

my previous taobao finds list got a couple of thumbs up, so here's some more from the depths of my amazon wishlist:

Sharp MiniDisc balanced/4-pole earbuds (L-plug) $5

same as above but with straight plug $9

according to this Headfonia article these were the first commercially available balanced earphones, FWIW

G-Sound GS2 $4 (not sure what shells these are, haven't seen any others like this)

Beatzen A4 $7 (these are one of the few I've seen with MX760 shells)

DIY MX500 with Yamaha-branded shells $8 (there's a pink option here, grab a set for your lady so she doesn't feel left out, plus it's almost valentine's day )

DIY Yuin shells with about 20 cable/color/impedance options $9-11

DIY MX500 with about 15 color/cable/mic options $10-12

DIY 320ohm MX500 $20

DIY MX500 with 32-core copper or 56-core silver cable $23-25


----------



## slim311

gobin said:


> I was messing up, I meant to say TY Hi-Z and Seahf have some kind of association, or may have the same owner, so I'm not sure if SQ wise, they're indifferent.




Yes, AFAIK TY and Seahf have some sort of association, they even come in the same box. Haven't heard any seahf so can't speak to that, but most impressions I've seen say they are somewhat bright, so that is why I have avoided them so far. Seahf might be like the Audio-Technica of earbuds or something.


----------



## slim311

tomasz2d said:


> EP21HD  - they are OK for $4 headset. They remind me of sound of Philips SHE3800 somehow. But only play/pause buttons work in iOS and in Android. No volume control in my pair.




the volume controls on both EP-21 and EP-21HD work fine on my android phone (oneplus x running resurrection remix-sultanXDA version). I would agree that they are decent but not great, but TBH I only bought them because they had an android-specific 3-button remote. I don't think the MP android version was out yet when I ordered these.

I think I might try these Xiaomi ones next, they're only $2:

https://world.taobao.com/item/542145075639.htm


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Ok, I've had some time to burn in my latest three buds in a bit.  Here are some quick thoughts:
  
  
*QianYun Qian39* (L Plug) - I was really excited to try these, but to me, they were a big disappointment.  The bass does not seem big to me, only muddy.  The vocals are very distant and unrealistic.  Now, maybe I just got a bad pair?  Not sure.  I just know I much prefer the Qian 25 instead.
  
*Boarseman MX98s* (Black) - Now these have some nice, controlled bass.  Smooth signature, with vocals that are easy on the ears, but with decent exposure.  Highs are dealt with detail and a nicely tuned roll off.  I had high hopes for these as well and they sound exactly like I thought they would.  They are quite musical and I like them a lot.  These would be a great pair for those new into earbuds.

*K's 64ohm (White)* - I had no idea what to expect from these. Maybe just a touch of veil over the whole signature.  Lows are not quite muddy, but they seem a little off.  The mids and highs don't do much to excite.  The thing I really do like about the K's 64ohm, is that is has a really nice cable. 
  
  
 The winner of these three is easily the *Boarseman MX98s*.  Now price does not always equal better sound quality, but in this case, the MX98s cost more than both the Qian39, K's 64 combined and it shows. 
  
 --


----------



## Spider fan

bloodypenguin said:


> Ok, I've had some time to burn in my latest three buds in a bit.  Here are some quick thoughts:
> 
> 
> *QianYun Qian39* (L Plug) - I was really excited to try these, but to me, they were a big disappointment.  The bass does not seem big to me, only muddy.  The vocals are very distant and unrealistic.  Now, maybe I just got a bad pair?  Not sure.  I just know I much prefer the Qian 25 instead.
> ...


 
 I agree my Qian39 seem to have weak bass and vocals too.  I'll admit the highs sound nice.  I enjoy the Qian25 alot.  They are well balanced and have great vocals to my ears.


----------



## golov17

tomasz2d said:


> Skipping is not supported. Just listen to full albums as intended by artists


2fast click - next song, 3 - prev


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Golov who I always trust likes the 500 better than the 150 but says you need an amp.


yep  


Spoiler


----------



## music4mhell

golov17 said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > Golov who I always trust likes the 500 better than the 150 but says you need an amp.
> ...


May i know your age..

You look so young and handsome...Is it becoz of russian dna ? or your workouts ?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

frederick wang said:


> And how much did you pay for shipment?


 
 The shipping is 26USD (by EMS), which is almost half of the cost of the earbud.
  
 Hence I replied De'mun email (twice) by asking about the Black De'mun and registered shipping option on the 9th of Jan, but until now, I have yet to receive a reply.

 Guess I will skip the Red De'mun then.


----------



## Townyj

audionewbi3 said:


> The shipping is 26USD (by EMS), which is almost half of the cost of the earbud.
> 
> Hence I replied De'mun email (twice) by asking about the Black De'mun and registered shipping option on the 9th of Jan, but until now, I have yet to receive a reply.
> 
> Guess I will skip the Red De'mun then.


 
  
 I spoke with Adhi/Rholupat who is friends with the Demun maker. He just emailed me this morning saying the V2 isnt so soon on the horizon. So im not sure whats going on :/


----------



## AudioNewbi3

townyj said:


> I spoke with Adhi/Rholupat who is friends with the Demun maker. He just emailed me this morning saying the V2 isnt so soon on the horizon. So im not sure whats going on :/


 
 Ah I see I see, but in the email he replied me, he mentions that the Red De'mun is on V2 now.

 Probably miscommunication I imagine.


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> May i know your age..
> 
> You look so young and handsome...Is it becoz of russian dna ? or your workouts ?


 48 years old soon, I think it's genes ☺


----------



## vapman

I hope this kickstart's Oleg's modeling career. Would pay for lots of earbuds 
  
 To those who are disappointed by the Qian39, are you amping or straight out of a DAP? I used them without amp today and was surprised at how much I was unimpressed. Then I used an amp and it was the wonderful powerful sound I remembered.Maybe I am just spoiled by amps.


----------



## flamesofarctica

Bit of an odd one, but has anyone tried any of the MMCX Bluetooth cables you can get, with the **** PT15 to make it into a Bluetooth earbud?

I know that one of the complaints of Bluetooth is sometimes a loss of detail, and was thinking if any earbud could do with losing a bit of it's 'sparkle', it's the ****!

Anyway, have ordered one to give it a try :-D No idea if the overall fit will work etc, so have just gone for a cheapie one that gets ok reviews.


----------



## Danneq

audionewbi3 said:


> The shipping is 26USD (by EMS), which is almost half of the cost of the earbud.
> 
> Hence I replied De'mun email (twice) by asking about the Black De'mun and registered shipping option on the 9th of Jan, but until now, I have yet to receive a reply.
> 
> ...




Still, Red De'mun for $86 is very good if you compare to many $100+ earbuds. Personally I think that Red De'mun runs circles around many of those $100+ earbuds.


----------



## golov17

flamesofarctica said:


> Bit of an odd one, but has anyone tried any of the MMCX Bluetooth cables you can get, with the **** PT15 to make it into a Bluetooth earbud?
> 
> I know that one of the complaints of Bluetooth is sometimes a loss of detail, and was thinking if any earbud could do with losing a bit of it's 'sparkle', it's the ****!
> 
> Anyway, have ordered one to give it a try :-D No idea if the overall fit will work etc, so have just gone for a cheapie one that gets ok reviews.


 http://s.aliexpress.com/2yeiyaUf
http://s.aliexpress.com/3y6NBNVv
Maybe this?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

danneq said:


> Still, Red De'mun for $86 is very good if you compare to many $100+ earbuds. Personally I think that Red De'mun runs circles around many of those $100+ earbuds.


 
 Yeah I could only imagine hahaha. But I wanted to know if registered shipping can also be provided, as I can wait for the item.
 Alas, there is still no repy from De'mun


----------



## flamesofarctica

golov17 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/2yeiyaUf
> http://s.aliexpress.com/3y6NBNVv
> Maybe this?




The ones I've ordered is the same as that second link. No idea how it will sound but I thought it would be interesting to try :-D


----------



## Majin

Are the **** PT15 a solid upgrade to the monk+?


----------



## flamesofarctica

Ok here goes. My cautious mini review of the 'mystery' DIY MX500 earbuds from CkLewis.





Ok I'm no photographer. But hopefully these should show, that it's not a bad cable and quite nice (or at least interesting) looking. It's somewhat stiff, almost metallic, but neither inflexible nor particularly heavy. Not much in the way of strain relief, and if I shake the cable on the right hand side some rattle against the shell. But why am I shaking it anyway, that's silly... no real cable issues anyway, although I wouldn't want to be pulling at them. Fit was great for my ears. Foams provided are ok, not as good as Monk foams, but not slippy/slidy/nasty like the TY foams.

As requested, I tried this on something relatively low powered - my budget smartphone (Moto G4) which, as I'm in the UK, has limited volume and doesn't stand a chance with hard to drive gear. At 16ohms these are really easy to drive, and half volume was plenty. I also gave it a play on the Walnut, just to see how it responded to a bit of power.

Songs / tracks:
Delain - Scandal (awesome pop-metal Queen cover)
Sonata Arctica - Faultline (Closure to an Animal)
Marillion - White Feather
Beastie Boys - Brass Monkey and Intergalactic
Hans Zimmer Dark Knight Soundtrack - Why So Serious
Nine Inch Nails - Ringfinger
Airbourne - Breaking Outta Hell

Overall, these aren't half bad. They don't fit my usual preferences of laid back, vocal centric earbuds with a wide soundstage, and instead are quite forward sounding.

To me they have a decent amount of bass, and testing with the Hans Zimmer track, have some amount of subbass, not bad for an earbud. I'm no basshead, so whether or not this is GOOD bass, I'd prefer someone more experienced to lend an ear. Sounded decent to me, present but not too overpowering. 

Mids were clear and weren't spoiled by the bass to my ears, as I've said a bit forward sounding but overall quite listenable.

Treble I would hazard at saying is quite rolled off. Not totally lacking, but certainly no harshness.

So, I'd recommend these as decent earbuds, the closest they come to for me is the Boarseman MX98 which are a similar price (just above the budget buds). I'll certainly use them when I'm in the mood for something more upfront, and would love to hear some impressions from a more experienced member here, if anyone fancies giving them a go.


----------



## mochill

Just saw new ty650 for 2017 with upgrades voice coil that require more power and also a sexier cable on it


----------



## Willber

> Originally Posted by *gobin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Now I need more impression of the TY Hi-Z 150


 
  
 An improvement over the Hi-Z 32 (got no time for details but fuller, more clarity and deeper soundstage) but I still prefer my E808+.
  
 However, IMO the KSC75 is the best way to spend $20 - these things are awesome.


----------



## flamesofarctica

majin said:


> Are the **** PT15 a solid upgrade to the monk+?




They're not alike at all, and so it's hard to compare, but I'd still give a resounding no. They're interesting and really nice looking earbuds, extremely clear and capable, although a lot of treble for me together with some real fit issues (only fixed by doubling up on foams, wearing over ear and lying very still!)

The thing with the Monk+ to me, is whether or not you fall in love with its sound signature.

If not, then there are lots of other budget buds to try and you might find one that's a perfect match for your tastes.

But if you really love the sound of the Monk+ then it's harder to find a solid upgrade, because the Monk+ does what it does so well.

And the latter is where I am.

Of those I own, the only ones that are IMO a clear and definite upgrade are, in ascending order: TY HP320, VE Asura 2, TYHP650, VE Zen 2.

One I've seen people say is a definite upgrade is the Tomahawk. It seems to be a love it or hate it earbud, but those who like it have compared it favorably. I haven't given that one much of a chance yet, as again the fit doesn't really suit my ears. I should give it another try.

(Please note - this is all purely my opinion, please take none of the above as a statement of fact)


----------



## BloodyPenguin

flamesofarctica said:


> Ok here goes. My cautious mini review of the 'mystery' DIY MX500 earbuds from CkLewis....


 
  
 Thank you so much for your thoughts on this bud.  After your description, my intrigue has grown.  I really like the Boarseman MX98s and if it is anything like that.... I might just have to pick one of these up.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 --


----------



## golov17

mochill said:


> Just saw new ty650 for 2017 with upgrades voice coil that require more power and also a sexier cable on it


 not TY, but Seahf, maybe? 




http://s.aliexpress.com/Qb22eq6Z


----------



## Tomasz2D

majin said:


> Are the **** PT15 a solid upgrade to the monk+?


 
 I will tell you this instead.
 I don't buy too many new earbuds nowadays because I found out that I already own so many that they started to overlap in sound signature. But I still may consider buying new earbud if:
  
 a) it looks interesting i.e. it is not yet another MX500 shell clone,
 b) I suspect that it may bring completly new sound to my earbuds collection.
  
 And that is what happened when I bought **** PT15 - it looks interesting and fortunately it brought completly new sound to my collection. I call it "paper sound" - don't ask me why - just my strange connotation but it sounds so soft and organic... like paper?


----------



## flamesofarctica

bloodypenguin said:


> Thank you so much for your thoughts on this bud.  After your description, my intrigue has grown.  I really like the Boarseman MX98s and if it is anything like that.... I might just have to pick one of these up.
> 
> --


 Was comparing more with the MX98 than the MX98S although I like them both. Please don't take my word I'm really inexperienced at this - YMMV as they say!!

Would love to hear your impressions provided you don't blame me if I've got this all horribly wrong :-D


----------



## gobin

willber said:


> An improvement over the Hi-Z 32 (got no time for details but fuller, more clarity and deeper soundstage) but I still prefer my E808+.
> 
> However, IMO the KSC75 is the best way to spend $20 - these things are awesome.



Thanks for suggesting, but I don't think I'll jump into portable headphones anytime soon, since my first and only impression of it is uncomfortable for my ears on long hours use.

Good work flamesofarctica!
One more question about the cable on those $13 earbuds. Is it easy to tangle? cuz the second pics look like a mess, not because your photographic skill so don't take that as an offense


----------



## luedriver

golov17 said:


> not TY, but Seahf, maybe?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 it looks interesting, costs almost as much as a zen 2.0 and the page says it extends until 30Khz, while having less than 100db sensitivity


----------



## gobin

slim311 said:


> DIY MX500 with about 15 color/cable/mic options $10-12
> 
> DIY MX500 with 32-core copper or 56-core silver cable $23-25



Oh my, the white cable on these two are what I'm dreaming to have.
Too bad I don't know how to use Taobao.

Do you have any info about the 4H9 written on the driver of the $10-12 one?


----------



## golov17

gobin said:


> Oh my, the white cable on these two are what I'm dreaming to have.
> Too bad I don't know how to use Taobao.
> 
> Do you have any info about the 4H9 written on the driver of the $10-12 one?


 http://s.aliexpress.com/JbeIJ7z6


----------



## gobin

golov17 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/JbeIJ7z6



Thanks
But I don't know how to remove the 2 pin connectors and hook up to the earbuds. Nor I have the necessary tools to so that I think.


willber said:


> An improvement over the Hi-Z 32 (got no time for details but fuller, more clarity and deeper soundstage) but I still prefer my E808



I assume you one, what does the cable situation like I might ask?


----------



## Willber

> Originally Posted by *gobin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Black braided, decent quality, doesn't tangle, seems a bit thin though.


----------



## flamesofarctica

gobin said:


> Good work flamesofarctica!
> One more question about the cable on those $13 earbuds. Is it easy to tangle? cuz the second pics look like a mess, not because your photographic skill so don't take that as an offense




It does look a mess looking back at my photo :-D It was definitely me & how I bunched them up for pic, they're no more tangly than any others really


----------



## DBaldock9

flamesofarctica said:


> Bit of an odd one, but has anyone tried any of the MMCX Bluetooth cables you can get, with the **** PT15 to make it into a Bluetooth earbud?
> 
> I know that one of the complaints of Bluetooth is sometimes a loss of detail, and was thinking if any earbud could do with losing a bit of it's 'sparkle', it's the ****!
> 
> Anyway, have ordered one to give it a try :-D No idea if the overall fit will work etc, so have just gone for a cheapie one that gets ok reviews.


 
  
 I've used the PT15 on a Trinity Audio Bluetooth Lanyard w/apt-X & MMCX.  I also used some silicone ear-hooks on the wires, to wear the PT15 over-the-ear, for a more secure & comfortable fit.  The combination works and sounds good, with my Onkyo DP-X1 DAP, Shanling M1 DAP, Nexus 5 Phone, and Nexus 7 Tablet (the Nexus devices don't have apt-X).
  
 Take Care,
 David Baldock


----------



## slim311

gobin said:


> Oh my, the white cable on these two are what I'm dreaming to have.
> Too bad I don't know how to use Taobao.
> 
> Do you have any info about the 4H9 written on the driver of the $10-12 one?




If I'm not mistaken, the 4H9 has something to do with the lot number, ie when or where those particular drivers were made, but I'm not sure how to decipher it.


----------



## noknok23

I have the seahf 650 and I can say I'm very happy with it. It would be hard to describe though because I'm new to the game. Only have asura 2 and edimun v3 to compare. All I can say is that the Color of the shell and cable is the same as neutral cigarette package like you have in England and France if you have any questions, I'll try to answer


----------



## flamesofarctica

dbaldock9 said:


> I've used the PT15 on a Trinity Audio Bluetooth Lanyard w/apt-X & MMCX.  I also used some silicone ear-hooks on the wires, to wear the PT15 over-the-ear, for a more secure & comfortable fit.  The combination works and sounds good, with my Onkyo DP-X1 DAP, Shanling M1 DAP, Nexus 5 Phone, and Nexus 7 Tablet (the Nexus devices don't have apt-X).
> 
> Take Care,
> David Baldock




Awesome! obviously mine will be the budget version although I was hoping to be a trailblazer haha, was never going to be the case on here.

My plan was to get the Tennmak BT cable, but that appears to have vanished off Ali so I'm chancing a cheapo option.

And yep hoping that the earhook shape on the cable I've ordered will help me keep the PT15 in my ears.

I tried with the cable from the Tennmak Pro, to see if that design would work, and it was the best fit I've had with them, far better than wearing the ordinary cable over-ear. I had to really push on the connectors to get them in, because of a slight difference in how the fitting was incorporated in the cable, but all good.

Still need to double up on the foams, but I think the PT15 would sound detailed through a mattress :-D

How was battery life, with earbuds being a bit bigger..Is it reduced?


----------



## Frederick Wang

audionewbi3 said:


> The shipping is 26USD (by EMS), which is almost half of the cost of the earbud.
> 
> Hence I replied De'mun email (twice) by asking about the Black De'mun and registered shipping option on the 9th of Jan, but until now, I have yet to receive a reply.
> 
> Guess I will skip the Red De'mun then.


 
 I think I read somewhere De'mun is based in a city on the Borneo island, if you are still in the "land below the wind", the transportation can be done by land, thought that'd reduce the cost. 
 Anyway, a while ago, they quote me a shipping cost to China at 35 USD, I think, I perhaps will order one after the Lunar New Year.


----------



## DBaldock9

flamesofarctica said:


> ...
> How was battery life, with earbuds being a bit bigger..Is it reduced?


 
  
  
  As an Electronics Technician, my thoughts are - The more efficient / sensitive the earphones (higher dB/mW), and the better the "noise seal" on the ears - the less power they will need to play music at a comfortable loudness level.
  
 One caveat - Every manufacturer probably uses a different technique & process for measuring and indicating the single number for the sensitivity of their earphones.  If you have access to the frequency & output level graphs, and they're scaled similarly, you can more easily tell which one is more sensitive in the frequency range you're most interested in.
  
 The PT15 is rated as - _Sensitivity: __120±5 dB @ 1 mW_, but they don't have as much noise isolation as in-ear earphones.
  
 I haven't run the battery all the way down on the TA Bluetooth Lanyard, with any of the earphones connected, 
 but I don't think it will play music for much over 5 or 6 hours.
  
 Take Care,
 David Baldock


----------



## rkw

flamesofarctica said:


> Bit of an odd one, but has anyone tried any of the MMCX Bluetooth cables you can get


 
  
 FiiO has been working on one, still unreleased: http://www.head-fi.org/t/817539/turn-your-detachable-cable-headphones-into-hifi-bluetooth-headphones-fiio-btc-mmcx
  
 There are more options with generic Bluetooth receivers. I've been using a Sony SBH50 for years. The highest quality currently available is probably Noble BTS.


----------



## Tomasz2D

rkw said:


> FiiO has been working on one, still unreleased: http://www.head-fi.org/t/817539/turn-your-detachable-cable-headphones-into-hifi-bluetooth-headphones-fiio-btc-mmcx
> 
> There are more options with generic Bluetooth receivers. I've been using a Sony SBH50 for years. The highest quality currently available is probably Noble BTS.


 
 I am using following Bluetooth amps:
 Audio Technica AT-PHA50BT
 Creative Labs Sound Blaster E3
 Elecom LBT-PAR500AV
 Samsung Level Link EO-RG920
 Sony SBH54
 Best sound quality I find in Elecom but I had to get it directly from Japan (amazon.co.jp via forwarder agent). Best features including FM radio is Sony. The lightest one is Samsung.


----------



## luckyeights

Well I finally did it. Custom made qian 39 silver cable. Hand braided it my self. 8 total strands 4 for each driver. I will let you know how it sounds later.


----------



## tinkertailor

flamesofarctica said:


> Still need to double up on the foams, but I think the PT15 would sound detailed through a mattress :-D




I got the pt15s running through silver (color anyways) cable and fouble foams. I did 180 on them... hated them as ahrill at first.. they take to eq really well and i know think they are one of the best earbuds ive evervtried... not sure if it was just getting accustomed to them or what... double foams make their sig nicer to me.. i havent noticed sig. detail drop.... they have great bass when eq'd


----------



## flamesofarctica

bloodypenguin said:


> Thank you so much for your thoughts on this bud.  After your description, my intrigue has grown.  I really like the Boarseman MX98s and if it is anything like that.... I might just have to pick one of these up.
> 
> --




Actually, the more I listen to these, the happier I am with my positive review and more confident in my descriptions.

They work especially well with quite punchy music...modern metal such as Trivium or recent In Flames, early 90s stuff like PWEI, that sort of thing. 

Think these will be getting a fair bit of usage, with the right music.


----------



## To.M

tinkertailor said:


> I got the pt15s running through silver (color anyways) cable and fouble foams. I did 180 on them... hated them as ahrill at first.. they take to eq really well and i know think they are one of the best earbuds ive evervtried... not sure if it was just getting accustomed to them or what... double foams make their sig nicer to me.. i havent noticed sig. detail drop.... they have great bass when eq'd




+1, with my Benjie S5 and thick foams, they sound very good, bright but no shrill.


----------



## notamethlab

I was thinking about purchasing the edimun v3 but I noticed shipping to the US is $22. Are there any other options or is it EMS only?


----------



## vapman

notamethlab said:


> I was thinking about purchasing the edimun v3 but I noticed shipping to the US is $22. Are there any other options or is it EMS only?


 
 You have to message them if you want to work out possibly cheaper shipping. Good thing is EMS only takes about a week...
  
 edit: If you want the fastest response times, get BBM on your phone or computer and be awake at 6am Eastern time


----------



## Townyj

notamethlab said:


> I was thinking about purchasing the edimun v3 but I noticed shipping to the US is $22. Are there any other options or is it EMS only?




Contact Adhi/Rholupat, spoke with him yesterday and will be getting the Edimun V3 in stock soon. Should be about $12usd shipping via registerd post. Worth a shot 

http://www.rholupat.com/contact


----------



## luedriver

luckyeights said:


> Well I finally did it. Custom made qian 39 silver cable. Hand braided it my self. 8 total strands 4 for each driver. I will let you know how it sounds later.


 
 noob question, but how did you connect 4 cables to each earbud? did you connect 2 cables to each solder point and what is the benefit of it?


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> Still, Red De'mun for $86 is very good if you compare to many $100+ earbuds. Personally I think that Red De'mun runs circles around many of those $100+ earbuds.


  

 I agree 100% - that is why i'm hoping to get my hands on a Red Demun V2. I remember it demolishing the MX985 at its own game side by side next to one another. Then I sold it to someone local and never regretted it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I just wish they were better at answering email, or maybe we need to figure out how to contact them better


----------



## tinkertailor

Anyone here ever tried putting new drivers in Apple earpods?


----------



## music4mhell

tinkertailor said:


> Anyone here ever tried putting new drivers in Apple earpods?


 
 is it possible :O, I feel even iFixit will struggle to do that !


----------



## teston

noknok23 said:


> I have the seahf 650 and I can say I'm very happy with it. It would be hard to describe though because I'm new to the game. Only have asura 2 and edimun v3 to compare. All I can say is that the Color of the shell and cable is the same as neutral cigarette package like you have in England and France if you have any questions, I'll try to answer



Nice. Can you describe the seahf 650 sound signature and compare it to those other two buds? I also have asura 2.0 and Edimun V3 and really like them


----------



## tinkertailor

music4mhell said:


> is it possible :O, I feel even iFixit will struggle to do that !


 
 I'm trying to open them for the last hour and the shells now look liek a dog chewed them


----------



## music4mhell

tinkertailor said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > is it possible :O, I feel even iFixit will struggle to do that !
> ...


 
 Lol, Ol da best. May all mighty force help you to achieve your goal


----------



## notamethlab

Is someone here able to compare the Edimun v3/ Redemun with the Daik DK-Song? I would appreciate it


----------



## vapman

notamethlab said:


> Is someone here able to compare the Edimun v3/ Redemun with the Daik DK-Song? I would appreciate it


 
 Is that one of the wooden ones? never heard it.... almost bought it a couple times, but never did....
  
 Interesting thing, I realized I never burned in my red Qian25 (the best color of them all!) so I am leaving it to burn in on a Walnut. I put it on and noticed it has a more forward tone and slightly more mid bass (not sub) than a non EQ'd Qian39. But when you bring EQ into the picture the 39 goes way farther on impact and depth. Qian25 doesn't do bad either! But it really is not even close when you take amp and eq  (even just a slight bump up on bass and the rest flat) into factor.


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> I agree 100% - that is why i'm hoping to get my hands on a Red Demun V2. I remember it demolishing the MX985 at its own game side by side next to one another. Then I sold it to someone local and never regretted it!
> I just wish they were better at answering email, or maybe we need to figure out how to contact them better




I do prefer MX985/OMX980 to Red De'mun, but consider the latter as a sort of mini MX985 and quite close. But to me Red De'mun crushes stuff like Zen 2 (too colored and warm sounding) and Rose Mojito (too cold and bright sounding which also colors the sound and makes it sound artificial).

In my book, Indonesian DIY earbud modders beat Chinese earbud makers any day of the week...


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> I do prefer MX985/OMX980 to Red De'mun, but consider the latter as a sort of mini MX985 and quite close. But to me Red De'mun crushes stuff like Zen 2 (too colored and warm sounding) and Rose Mojito (too cold and bright sounding which also colors the sound and makes it sound artificial).
> 
> In my book, Indonesian DIY earbud modders beat Chinese earbud makers any day of the week...


try Yinman150 plz


----------



## magitka27

looks like ive been missing much much things here, enjoying my asura 2.0 with x5ii High gain + gradual lowpass filter..

 im planning to upgrade from asura 2.0, can you guys help to choose which earbuds that contains the character of asura 2.0 but in a refined sound-quality ?? maximum budget around $160... or should i stay with asura ??


----------



## Nachash

How's the RY lineup? Is the RY04 worth it?


----------



## vapman

magitka27 said:


> looks like ive been missing much much things here, enjoying my asura 2.0 with x5ii High gain + gradual lowpass filter..
> 
> im planning to upgrade from asura 2.0, can you guys help to choose which earbuds that contains the character of asura 2.0 but in a refined sound-quality ?? maximum budget around $160... or should i stay with asura ??


 
 edimun v3 rhodium or red demun or cypherus?
 yinman also great...


----------



## golov17

magitka27 said:


> looks like ive been missing much much things here, enjoying my asura 2.0 with x5ii High gain + gradual lowpass filter..
> 
> 
> im planning to upgrade from asura 2.0, can you guys help to choose which earbuds that contains the character of asura 2.0 but in a refined sound-quality ?? maximum budget around $160... or should i stay with asura ??


Try Yinman150


----------



## magitka27

vapman said:


> edimun v3 rhodium or red demun or cypherus?


 
 Aww vapman, its been a while, 

 do you have any of that earbuds??
 afaik you have the red demun but maybe i'm mistaken
  


golov17 said:


> Try Yinman150


 
 how much does it cost uncle??


----------



## golov17

magitka27 said:


> Aww vapman, its been a while,
> 
> 
> do you have any of that earbuds??
> ...





Spoiler


----------



## vapman

@magitka27 i have edimun v3 rho, red demun, but no cypherus yet.  i also have yinman 150


----------



## noknok23

teston said:


> Nice. Can you describe the seahf 650 sound signature and compare it to those other two buds? I also have asura 2.0 and Edimun V3 and really like them


 
 Sounds very full and rich. extension on bass is deep and textured but not "boosted" like edimun v3. Feels more natural to me. Completly fatigue free. I feel like I have full sized headphones with it, especially listening to dubtechno stuff like SpaceEcho which has high and low frequency sound with open stage feel. The Seahf is very immersive. I can listen to music very loud and it doesnt sounds painful at all. It work well in everything I listened to so far (acoustic, pop, rock, electronic, classical, jazz, modern and noise, house, field recording...) and I can forget im just wearing earbuds.
  
 I bought edimun V3 at the same time and barely used it, edimun v3 feel congested to me and not enough detailed to my taste, it handle heavy bass better but thats like 10% of my library. I sticked to Seahf650 since then. I cannot tell if resolution is better on Seahf or Asura, its easier to grasp the details on Asura because of its brightness, Seahf is much more smooth. though I noticed things with Seahf because of its immersive feel.
 I feel like I prefer voices on Asura, but I mostly listen to instrumental music.
  
 Seahf is the harder to drive from the all 3. Edimun v3 just works very well out of my phone, Asura is just ok but Seahf has a thin sound. Seahf seems to be rather transparent on the source, i tried on my external sound card and sound is more clean and clear than walnut.
 when I use walnut as an amp straight from my laptop soundcard, I can clearly hear how ****ty the internal soundcard is compare to walnut dap sound.  
 I feel like its more warm on walnut, but also because ive been on asura daily before so take this with a grain of salt.
 It sounds almost as good with walnut amp through phone and spotify max quality than walnut dap.
 I can go max volume on walnut dap, it is too loud but bearable.
  
 built quality seems ok, cable is the softest of all, and quite long, like maybe 150cm? its a third longer than your usual cable.
  
 Overall it is a clear update from the other 2 earbuds to me. Just because it can handle everything quite fine. I think it will be my earbuds to go for a while as long as I have something to properly power it.


----------



## golov17

http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.iE6yqj&id=540453172608&_u=g60i9erbf7e




I will try it ☺


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> try Yinman150 plz




Great price but now I try to only go for lower impedance earbuds. Monk+ (64ohm) and Cypherus QFred (70ohm) are the highest ohm earbuds I've got.


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> Great price but now I try to only go for lower impedance earbuds. Monk+ (64ohm) and Cypherus QFred (70ohm) are the highest ohm earbuds I've got.


high sensitivity, now with my Meizu mx2 without amp, very good


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> Great price but now I try to only go for lower impedance earbuds. Monk+ (64ohm) and Cypherus QFred (70ohm) are the highest ohm earbuds I've got.


 
 Super easy to drive though, the 150 is. I'm also having a newfound appreciation for the Qian25 using it with the Walnut. Like the Edimun V3 i think it's more impressive when you're not trying to do an aggressive EQ, since it doesn't take to EQing nearly as nicely as the 39 does... but if you let it do its thing it is excellent.


----------



## Danneq

magitka27 said:


> looks like ive been missing much much things here, enjoying my asura 2.0 with x5ii High gain + gradual lowpass filter..
> 
> 
> im planning to upgrade from asura 2.0, can you guys help to choose which earbuds that contains the character of asura 2.0 but in a refined sound-quality ?? maximum budget around $160... or should i stay with asura ??




Isn't Zen 2 a sort of upgrade to Asura 2? I remembered Asura 2 as quite midcentric and I would have recommended Cypherus QFred but a Head fier who has got both Asura 2 and QFred compared them and they are quite different, and Asura 2 isn't as midcentric as I remembered (I sold my Asura 2 over 6 months before buying QFred).

I will ask him in a PM if it's okay for me to quote it here. Otherwise I can send it to you in a PM. 

Anyway, if you were looking for the perfect midcentric earbud QFred would be the answer, although it costs $200. But for something like Asura 2 but better, perhaps Zen 2 would be good?




golov17 said:


> high sensitivity, now with my Meizu mx2 without amp, very good







vapman said:


> Super easy to drive though, the 150 is. I'm also having a newfound appreciation for the Qian25 using it with the Walnut. Like the Edimun V3 i think it's more impressive when you're not trying to do an aggressive EQ, since it doesn't take to EQing nearly as nicely as the 39 does... but if you let it do its thing it is excellent.




The price is good and I like wood earbuds. But I want to try to make my collection even smaller. Now I'm thinking again of selling the Dunu Alpha 1. Nice sound but poor fit. And I've got Diomnes Lv2 on the way plus I'll get Shozy Stardust as soon as possible. Plus hopefully the new Blox flagship later this year and also two new Cypherus earbuds (entry level and new flagship). How is it possible to make the collection smaller?!?!?


----------



## JASru

danneq said:


> Isn't Zen 2 a sort of upgrade to Asura 2? I remembered Asura 2 as quite midcentric and I would have recommended Cypherus QFred but a Head fier who has got both Asura 2 and QFred compared them and they are quite different, and Asura 2 isn't as midcentric as I remembered (I sold my Asura 2 over 6 months before buying QFred).
> 
> I will ask him in a PM if it's okay for me to quote it here. Otherwise I can send it to you in a PM.
> 
> ...


 
 Afaik, Stardust is discontinued. Only balanced stock is available.


----------



## rkw

jasru said:


> Afaik, Stardust is discontinued. Only balanced stock is available.


 
  
 I see Stardust (Shozy BK) available at Penon Audio.


----------



## stilleh

I have been trying, and I mean trying hard(!) to like the **** PT15 but the comfort is just horrible. They press against my tragus and feel so uncomfortable. I can´t get them to fit comfortably and therfor they sound weak and pale. Worst earbud buy ever for me. Lesson learned...


----------



## golov17

jasru said:


> Afaik, Stardust is discontinued. Only balanced stock is available.


 in Hong Kong in stock only balanced version, yep


----------



## To.M

stilleh said:


> I have been trying, and I mean trying hard(!) to like the **** PT15 but the comfort is just horrible. They press against my tragus and feel so uncomfortable. I can´t get them to fit comfortably and therfor they sound weak and pale. Worst earbud buy ever for me. Lesson learned...




While for me, they are super comfy,not too big, they sit still in my ears, besides,they are well build, cheap so a good purchase.


----------



## golov17

stilleh said:


> I have been trying, and I mean trying hard(!) to like the **** PT15 but the comfort is just horrible. They press against my tragus and feel so uncomfortable. I can´t get them to fit comfortably and therfor they sound weak and pale. Worst earbud buy ever for me. Lesson learned...


not your cup of tea ☕


----------



## AudioNewbi3

stilleh said:


> I have been trying, and I mean trying hard(!) to like the **** PT15 but the comfort is just horrible. They press against my tragus and feel so uncomfortable. I can´t get them to fit comfortably and therfor they sound weak and pale. Worst earbud buy ever for me. Lesson learned...


 
 They sound heavenly to my ears hahahaha.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Alright guys so here is my question, I have narrow down my upcoming purchase to these few earbuds as they have almost the same price point.

 Providing they reply and provide cheaper shipping:
  
 Red De'mun, Edimun V3, Heavenly Sounds Concerto

 Taobao alternatives:

 Yinman 500, Yinman 150, Aidex NOS earbud.

 Judging from the replies over the course of this thread, am I right to assume that the list should be narrowed down to:

 Red De'mun, Yinman 150, Yinman 500?

 Thank-you


----------



## Nachash

I've FINALLY received the PT15 ordered 3 months ago,


  
  
  
 In the meantime I've received the Silver PT15 which took less than a month with ePacket


----------



## Saoshyant

Well unless there's another issue, I've bought a Zen 2, Edimun v3 rhodium, MM Tomahawk, and 2 budget earbuds I will most likely give away for a reasonable price from a forum member.


----------



## DBaldock9

stilleh said:


> I have been trying, and I mean trying hard(!) to like the **** PT15 but the comfort is just horrible. They press against my tragus and feel so uncomfortable. I can´t get them to fit comfortably and therfor they sound weak and pale. Worst earbud buy ever for me. Lesson learned...


 

 I put them on cables with silicone ear-hooks, and wear them over-the-ear.  This way, they're more comfortable & secure.  The ear-hooks hold the PT15s to the ear, and allow them to be angled to get the best seal / Bass response.
  
 I originally ordered some ear-hooks from AliExpress, but they were too soft & flexible, and the wires for some of my earphones would slip out.  So, I did some more looking, and found these on Amazon - https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01E4TS360/
 The Cosmos models hold the wires more securely.
  
 Take Care,
 David Baldock


----------



## mochill

audionewbi3 said:


> Alright guys so here is my question, I have narrow down my upcoming purchase to these few earbuds as they have almost the same price point.
> 
> 
> Providing they reply and provide cheaper shipping:
> ...


heavenly sounds concerto


----------



## fajrinandro

audionewbi3 said:


> Alright guys so here is my question, I have narrow down my upcoming purchase to these few earbuds as they have almost the same price point.
> 
> 
> Providing they reply and provide cheaper shipping:
> ...



I have the cheapest heavenly sound earbud,named heavenly sound blues. And it's sounds amazing. I use it more than my ty hiz32 with my walnut v2. So, i think you can reconsider the concerto,since it's the most expenaive line up from heavenly sounds.
Or try another earbud from indonesia called "laki-audio raid". It's limited quantity and only sold via their facebook. Just search laki audio


----------



## mochill

How is the raid and how much


----------



## fajrinandro

mochill said:


> How is the raid and how much



Actually, i just received my raid (raid bromo, first from 3 new lineup from batch2) today. I'll give my impression in a few day. But batch 1 is really famous in indonesia earbud forum. The ompressions of batxh 1 are agressive for high speed music, good vocal, and very good separation and detail for $10-15 price range. But unfortunately,it's so limited.
And if you inyerested, you can find many more earbud modder and builder from indonesia that have a very good earbud too. Look at post by sempenyi in www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/9285#post_12822064


----------



## macky112

Hi All,
  
 Just received my Qian39 from aliexpress, ordered from this store
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/qian-39-High-Quality-Headphones-Earbud-Headphones-Headset-Dynamic-Earphones-for-popular-female-pop-music-light/32346706750.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.xHWZkf
  
 but it didnt come with a metal box like in Vapman's review... only a small ziploc bag, earbud, shirt clip and 4 foam covers
  
 as this is my first earbud, I cannot confirm if the SQ is authentic or fake.
  
 could some1 please comment on this?


----------



## flamesofarctica

macky112 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Just received my Qian39 from aliexpress, ordered from this store
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/qian-39-High-Quality-Headphones-Earbud-Headphones-Headset-Dynamic-Earphones-for-popular-female-pop-music-light/32346706750.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.xHWZkf
> ...




Hi, yep I posted about this one in the budget earbuds thread, that seller specifies in the listing they won't send the tin and I didn't spot that.

Identical to the ones I bought from another seller with the tin though so they'll be fine.

Some other sellers give you the option of with or without, with (tiny) price difference but this one doesn't


----------



## macky112

flamesofarctica said:


> Hi, yep I posted about this one in the budget earbuds thread, that seller specifies in the listing they won't send the tin and I didn't spot that.
> 
> Identical to the ones I bought from another seller with the tin though so they'll be fine.
> 
> Some other sellers give you the option of with or without, with (tiny) price difference but this one doesn't


 
 yeah, I think I followed a link from from this thread to this AE store for the purchase.
  
 so you received a pair from this store as well I assume?  and the pair is comparable to your other Qian39's?


----------



## Willber

I have one Qian39 with a tin and one without - they sound identical.


----------



## tinkertailor

willber said:


> I have one Qian39 with a tin and one without - they sound identical.


 
 They are bassier with the 'tin mod' no?


----------



## Willber

tinkertailor said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > I have one Qian39 with a tin and one without - they sound identical.
> ...


----------



## tinkertailor

willber said:


>


 
 just kidding


----------



## flamesofarctica

macky112 said:


> yeah, I think I followed a link from from this thread to this AE store for the purchase.
> 
> so you received a pair from this store as well I assume?  and the pair is comparable to your other Qian39's?




Yep don't worry they're identical


----------



## Willber

tinkertailor said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


----------



## macky112

flamesofarctica said:


> Yep don't worry they're identical


 
 cool, thank you for the reply!


----------



## purplesun

Just found out the chinese character used for Qian in Qian39 is 潜, as in 潜39
  
 潜 translates to:
 hidden/secret/latent/to hide/to conceal/to submerge/to dive
 https://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?wdqb=%E6%BD%9C
  
 I wonder which is it?


----------



## vapman

stilleh said:


> I have been trying, and I mean trying hard(!) to like the **** PT15 but the comfort is just horrible. They press against my tragus and feel so uncomfortable. I can´t get them to fit comfortably and therfor they sound weak and pale. Worst earbud buy ever for me. Lesson learned...




I hate pt15 shell too but with some patience you can use a torch or heat gun to melt the glue before pulling the front cover from the driver shell. Then put them in a different housing. I have some yuin pk/cygnus style shells but never bought more pt15 to put in them. Too bright for me



purplesun said:


> Just found out the chinese character used for Qian in Qian39 is 潜, as in 潜39
> 
> 潜 translates to:
> hidden/secret/latent/to hide/to conceal/to submerge/to dive
> ...




The taobao pages had some picture that led me to believe it was something that got covered in Romance of the Three Kingdoms.


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> The taobao pages had some picture that led me to believe it was something that got covered in Romance of the Three Kingdoms.


 
  
 Thanks. Just googled that. Would make a great movie trilogy or at least hit TV series like Game of Thrones.


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> Thanks. Just googled that. Would make a great movie trilogy or at least hit TV series like Game of Thrones.


 
 Haha, Koei released the first Romance of the Three Kingdoms game in 1985 for MSX, NES and Amiga. The most recent one came out last year. I still haven't read the book, but i've played enough of the games to have a general understanding of what it was all about


----------



## Nachash

macky112 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Just received my Qian39 from aliexpress, ordered from this store
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/qian-39-High-Quality-Headphones-Earbud-Headphones-Headset-Dynamic-Earphones-for-popular-female-pop-music-light/32346706750.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.xHWZkf
> ...


 

 I didn't received either, I did with the other Qian though.


purplesun said:


> Thanks. Just googled that. Would make a great movie trilogy or at least hit TV series like Game of Thrones.


 

 There are two tv-series and a bunch of movies, one was made by John Woo


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> Haha, Koei released the first Romance of the Three Kingdoms game in 1985 for MSX, NES and Amiga. The most recent one came out last year. I still haven't read the book, but i've played enough of the games to have a general understanding of what it was all about


 
  
 If Romance of 3 Kingdoms had a PC game that had an english female archeologist with double-handguns raiding the tombs (except AoD & GoL), I would have probably known lots more about it.


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> If Romance of 3 Kingdoms had a PC game that had an english female archeologist with double-handguns raiding the tombs (except AoD & GoL), I would have probably known lots more about it.


 
 Well, I am still debating the new PS4 one, cause it looks okay, but I stopped playing after Lara stopped looking like Lara... that was like 15 years ago? geez... I remember playing the original on 4MB RAM...
  
 I spent some more time with my Qian25 today and while it just isn't as good as the 39 when EQ is taken into the picture, it's the easy winner IMO when no EQ is in question.
  
 BTW I noticed some sellers on taobao offer the Qians for ~30 cents less if you buy it not in the tin. I'm sure it's nothing to worry about but I understand the disappointment if you were looking forward to the tin. I've bought half a dozen Qians or more and never got one not in the tin.


----------



## purplesun

> Originally Posted by *vapman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> BTW I noticed some sellers on taobao offer the Qians for ~30 cents less if you buy it not in the tin. I'm sure it's nothing to worry about but I understand the disappointment if you were looking forward to the tin. I've bought half a dozen Qians or more and never got one not in the tin.


 
  
 I have about a dozen of the exact same tins with different silk-screened logos on them. They are just mass-produced tin boxes, and have no bearing on the quality & authenticity of the trinkets they hold inside. Though, I think QC of earbuds (or lack of) is the biggest determining factor in the variations between same budget earbuds from smaller companies. I had an E808+ that was soldered out-of-phase; a simple QC would have caught that. It was quite trippy sounding until I fixed it.


----------



## slim311

purplesun said:


> I think QC of earbuds (or lack of) is the biggest determining factor in the variations between same budget earbuds from smaller companies. I had an E808+ that was soldered out-of-phase; a simple QC would have caught that. It was quite trippy sounding until I fixed it.




This isn't limited to just earbuds, my NXG Headtrip DJ (rebranded Monoprice 8323 with velour pads/headband) came wired out of phase, I figured it out by using one of the tests on audiocheck.net. I don't have the first clue how to solder, so never got them fixed, but I still have them. Maybe someday.


----------



## purplesun

slim311 said:


> This isn't limited to just earbuds, my NXG Headtrip DJ (rebranded Monoprice 8323 with velour pads/headband) came wired out of phase, I figured it out by using one of the tests on audiocheck.net. I don't have the first clue how to solder, so never got them fixed, but I still have them. Maybe someday.


 
 If you use foobar2k, I believe the xover add-on can flip the phases virtually. At least you can then use the headphones without soldering them.
  
 EDIT:
 http://xover.sourceforge.net/


----------



## slim311

purplesun said:


> If you use foobar2k, I believe the xover add-on can flip the phases virtually. At least you can then use the headphones without soldering them.




I'm an old-school fuddy duddy who still uses Winamp (whipping the llama's ass since 1999!) 

I'm not too concerned about using the cans, have D2K for at-home listening and S400/earbuds for portable, if anything I'd just like to get them fixed so I can pass them on to a friend.


----------



## Frederick Wang

purplesun said:


> Just found out the chinese character used for Qian in Qian39 is 潜, as in 潜39
> 
> 潜 translates to:
> hidden/secret/latent/to hide/to conceal/to submerge/to dive
> ...


 
 The maker of Qian series referred to himself as 潜水专家，literally translated to "expert in submergence", which in Chinese means "an expert lurker in forum"


----------



## Frederick Wang

vapman said:


> Haha, Koei released the first Romance of the Three Kingdoms game in 1985 for MSX, NES and Amiga. The most recent one came out last year. I still haven't read the book, but i've played enough of the games to have a general understanding of what it was all about


 
 lol, the book is a very lengthy one, written with a particular style which lies between modern/classical Chinese language. Foreigners tend to get lost in the complicated naming system of over 1000 characters appeared in the book. I believe there is a "Cliffs Note" version of that book in English.


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> Isn't Zen 2 a sort of upgrade to Asura 2? I remembered Asura 2 as quite midcentric and I would have recommended Cypherus QFred but a Head fier who has got both Asura 2 and QFred compared them and they are quite different, and Asura 2 isn't as midcentric as I remembered (I sold my Asura 2 over 6 months before buying QFred).
> 
> I will ask him in a PM if it's okay for me to quote it here. Otherwise I can send it to you in a PM.
> 
> ...


 
 I was thinking to not even touch Stardust until you got it and posted some thoughts, however, maybe that was a limited run.


----------



## gobin

willber said:


> Black braided, decent quality, doesn't tangle, seems a bit thin though.


 
 Regarding the TY Hi-Z 150's cable again, 
  
 What about microphonic? is it really bad on these? (I was just walking with my annoyingly microphonic IEM that I remembered about this). Though I assume it's just a common issue IEMs have in general, while earbuds won't struggle as much.
  
 Finally, would it be wasteful to buy ty hi-z 150 over the ty hi-z 32 when I'll just use it straight out of my standard smartphone and laptop (no special enhancement in output source whatsoever), because I like the braided cable on ty hi-z 150.


----------



## Saoshyant

While I want to place a taobao order, several things I'd want to order MisterTao won't ship like Audio Technica's earclip, or I see a bunch of budget earbuds which would be fun to try, but ultimately aren't necessary. So unless I can find something high end worth buying, my order will wait.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Speaking of Romance of The 3 Kingdoms, I myself as a Chinese is ashamed that even I do not know that much about the actual/factual history of that time period, nor have I dragged my lazy ass to be committed and read through the stories.....

 Guess this is what happens when you force middle schoolers to forcefully memorize Chinese History hahahaha.

 On a side note, Red Demun replied my message, informed the company to check their email and they have "seen" my fb message. But alas, still no reply =( sobs


----------



## tinkertailor

Someone in Indonesia should start an english-language web store and find cheap shipping. I think everyone here is really curious about all the variety of buds they have there. I have tried contacting various sellers on Facebook, its been difficult to communicate with them and get a good idea of prices, sound desc., etc.


----------



## flamesofarctica

gobin said:


> Regarding the TY Hi-Z 150's cable again,
> 
> What about microphonic? is it really bad on these? (I was just walking with my annoyingly microphonic IEM that I remembered about this). Though I assume it's just a common issue IEMs have in general, while earbuds won't struggle as much.
> 
> Finally, would it be wasteful to buy ty hi-z 150 over the ty hi-z 32 when I'll just use it straight out of my standard smartphone and laptop (no special enhancement in output source whatsoever), because I like the braided cable on ty hi-z 150.




You shouldn't have any problem with microphonics I don't think. The most I've had with a twisted type cable is an occasional and tiny bit of a rattle against the shell if it's a stiff cable, but that's about it.

Re whether it's worth the difference - if you're going to spend double and you're unsure on sound preferences as yet, why not get 2 say the TY 32 and the Monk+. That would mean (a) you have a spare pair and (b) once you've tried them both, you're better informed about your preferred sound, before laying out cash for anything more expensive in future.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

tinkertailor said:


> Someone in Indonesia should start an english-language web store and find cheap shipping. I think everyone here is really curious about all the variety of buds they have there. I have tried contacting various sellers on Facebook, its been difficult to communicate with them and get a good idea of prices, sound desc., etc.


 
 Or one of our baller members, should go to Indonesia, buy a bunch headphones and import them for sale to us.


----------



## abhijollyguy

What is the direct upgrade to Red Dem'un?


----------



## gobin

flamesofarctica said:


> You shouldn't have any problem with microphonics I don't think. The most I've had with a twisted type cable is an occasional and tiny bit of a rattle against the shell if it's a stiff cable, but that's about it.
> 
> Re whether it's worth the difference - if you're going to spend double and you're unsure on sound preferences as yet, why not get 2 say the TY 32 and the Monk+. That would mean (a) you have a spare pair and (b) once you've tried them both, you're better informed about your preferred sound, before laying out cash for anything more expensive in future.



My thought is that I'll have one shot into the earbuds side and be done with it, as my main interest is in IEM; and it drains most of my budget away.

 I just want to test out the claim that earbuds generally have better soundstage and imaging than IEM. 

As said before, I originally wanted to get and monk or ty hi-z 32. But then I saw the braided cable on those models and was tempted. So me being greedy just want a better sound comes out of a more expensive version, while in reality all I want is a better looking cable on those. 
p/s: Seeing the $3 shippingon a $5 earbuds is really discouraging 

Anyway, thanks for your sugesstions.


----------



## vapman

gobin said:


> My thought is that I'll have one shot into the earbuds side and be done with it, as my main interest is in IEM; and it drains most of my budget away.
> 
> I just want to test out the claim that earbuds generally have better soundstage and imaging than IEM.
> 
> ...


 
 Get the cheap ones and put nicer cables on all of them!


----------



## Willber

gobin said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Black braided, decent quality, doesn't tangle, seems a bit thin though.
> ...


 
  
 No problem with microphonics.
  
 It is a good upgrade from the Hi-Z 32 for me using my laptop with EQ (it is very v-shaped without it). I have no idea how easy it is to drive from a smartphone.


----------



## ichtch

Greetings everyone,im new here and im fall in love with earbud after im purchased my vemonk+ and i need a recommendation a good earbud around 40-50usd to pair with my xduoo x10, all my music is all genres and my prefer sound bright mid to high with small in low or bass,and im alr search on google too and found a toneking tomahawk also yuin pk3, or any other recommendations??


----------



## Danneq

ichtch said:


> Greetings everyone,im new here and im fall in love with earbud after im purchased my vemonk+ and i need a recommendation a good earbud around 40-50usd to pair with my xduoo x10, all my music is all genres and my prefer sound bright mid to high with small in low or bass,and im alr search on google too and found a toneking tomahawk also yuin pk3, or any other recommendations??


 

 Tomahawk sounds perfect for you...


----------



## golov17

ichtch said:


> Greetings everyone,im new here and im fall in love with earbud after im purchased my vemonk+ and i need a recommendation a good earbud around 40-50usd to pair with my xduoo x10, all my music is all genres and my prefer sound bright mid to high with small in low or bass,and im alr search on google too and found a toneking tomahawk also yuin pk3, or any other recommendations??


Yinman150, bro


----------



## ichtch

danneq said:


> Tomahawk sounds perfect for you...



Thanks,,oh yeah im forgot to ask this, does the high impendance is really matter??im saw a ty hi-z150 had 150ohm than the toma or pk3 had 32ohm also hi-z150 is the cheap one than toma or yuin, how is it??


----------



## ichtch

golov17 said:


> Yinman150, bro



Thanks uncle,i'll write it on my list(i think it a bit hard to find yinman in my country) btw i know you from ELI group on fb, waw


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Can someone recommend a decent MMCX cable?


----------



## golov17

midnightempest said:


> Can someone recommend a decent MMCX cable?


price?


----------



## golov17

http://s.aliexpress.com/MZZfqQ77

http://s.aliexpress.com/EFJvUbQN

http://s.aliexpress.com/naqi6n2q

http://s.aliexpress.com/QvqEjMNN


----------



## Nachash

audionewbi3 said:


> Speaking of Romance of The 3 Kingdoms, I myself as a Chinese is ashamed that even I do not know that much about the actual/factual history of that time period, nor have I dragged my lazy ass to be committed and read through the stories.....
> 
> Guess this is what happens when you force middle schoolers to forcefully memorize Chinese History hahahaha.
> 
> On a side note, Red Demun replied my message, informed the company to check their email and they have "seen" my fb message. But alas, still no reply =( sobs


 
 To me is the same with a lot of classic Italian literature, but I've read ROT3K twice already


----------



## Willber

ichtch said:


> ty hi-z150


 
  
 Lots of bass on this, might be too much for your preference.
  
 AG RX-1 has very good mids and highs with not much bass.


----------



## Townyj

Anybody seen the new TY HI-Z HP-400SE..??
  
 http://penonaudio.com/Earphones/earbuds/TY-Hi-z-HP-400se-Earphone


----------



## notamethlab

midnightempest said:


> Can someone recommend a decent MMCX cable?




High Quality Custom Made Silver and Copper Mixed Earphone Upgrade Cable For Shure SE535 SE846 UE900 DZ7 DZ9 DZX LZ A3 QT5
 http://s.aliexpress.com/i2mIn2iu 
(from AliExpress Android)

LZ Custom Made High Quality Silver Plated Cable Earphone Upgrade Cable With MMCX Ues For Shure SE535 SE846 UE900 LZ A3 **** UE
 http://s.aliexpress.com/IBzyURr2 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## gobin

vapman said:


> Get the cheap ones and put nicer cables on all of them!



I'm thinking about this possibility. Dont know where to start though. Is it really time consuming? 

Anyway, I think I'll just get a ty hi-z or monk+ for now

Thanks


----------



## vapman

gobin said:


> I'm thinking about this possibility. Dont know where to start though. Is it really time consuming?
> 
> Anyway, I think I'll just get a ty hi-z or monk+ for now
> 
> Thanks




Once i get a bud open - the hard part - it is only maybe 10 minutes of work if that. If you use cables which already have the 3.5mm plug attached, the whole thing is very quick.


----------



## robervaul

Is there any difference in the SQ between K's 64 White cable and Brown cable ?


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Thank You guys for the cable links, Is there a sound differences between a $15 vs $50 one?


----------



## vapman

When De'mun replies to your email
  

  
 So hopefully I will own both Red Demun V1 and V2 soon. Hope to use the hell out of the V2 while keeping my V1 safe. I would listen to it so much more if I wasn't so worried I'd destroy it...


----------



## Frederick Wang

audionewbi3 said:


> Speaking of Romance of The 3 Kingdoms, I myself as a Chinese is ashamed that even I do not know that much about the actual/factual history of that time period, nor have I dragged my lazy ass to be committed and read through the stories.....
> 
> Guess this is what happens when you force middle schoolers to forcefully memorize Chinese History hahahaha.
> 
> On a side note, Red Demun replied my message, informed the company to check their email and they have "seen" my fb message. But alas, still no reply =( sobs


 
 lol, Romance of the three kingdoms is more literature than history, adapted to reflect the Confucian viewpoint of order. That aside, it is a fascinating story. There is a saying in China:"Water Margin is not for the junior, and Romance of the three kingdoms not for the senior", for the WM preaches violence and insubordination, and the ROT3K preaches craft and cunning. 
  
 Take an example from a story about Cao Cao, who would later be the most important figure in that period and almost reunited all China, after a failed assassination attempt at the most powerful and evil warlord Dong Zhuo(who would boil his enemy alive in a big pot and feed the lords, whoever refuse to eat end up in the pot), Cao Cao fled the capital city and take refuge in the countryside in the estate of Lu Boshe, an old friend of his fathers. A man called Chen Gong, admirer of his heroic deed, resigned from the government and followed him. That afternoon, Cao Cao took a nap, and heard the sound of knife-sharpening between his dreams, being a paranoid man, he immediately took his sword and killed the servants in the kitchen, and Lu Boshe's family too. Only then he found that a pig was being prepared for dinner. He and Chen Gong left the house, on the way they met Lu Boshe, Lu said to him:"Why are you leaving so soon my good nephew, I just went to town to buy wine." Cao Cao diverted his attention and killed him too. Chen Gong was shocked and asked him what the hell did he do, here comes Cao Cao's famous reply:"I'd rather betray the world, than let the world betray me(宁教我负天下人，休教天下人负我)." 
  
 In real history Cao Cao was a great man with shortcomings(well who isn't ), but he is not deemed as "忠” （Zhong, or loyal) by Confucian scholars, that epitome belongs to his friend/enemy Liu Bei, ROT3K is a attempt to depict him as "奸“(Jian, or evil) and restore the "heavenly orders" which history itself failed to manifest. 
  
  


> Originally Posted by @Nachash  To me is the same with a lot of classic Italian literature, but I've read ROT3K twice already


 
 Admirable undertaking, sir！
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 -------------
  
 Now back to topic, so if I order De'mun, it is the V2 now, right?


----------



## slim311

an update on my Colarad C01 vs TY Hi-Z 32 comparison, after letting colarad burn for a week:

Colarad has ever so slighty less presence down low than the TY32, impact is also SLIGHTLY less (although still very nice on both counts). The highs are JUST BARELY toned down a notch as well (noticeable in the high-hats and snares mostly). I must stress these are not huge differences. The vocals however, are more forward on Colarad, which also seems to give it a bit more "air". Basically, it sounds like they pushed the bottom mid-point of the 'V' sound on the TY32 up 2 notches, which dropped the extension on either end down 1 notch, if that makes any sense. They are still very similar, with just enough difference to notice (even to my relatively inexperienced ears). It's really like vanilla vs french vanilla (maybe TY32S will be vanilla bean?) The same but different. If you are all about that bass, then TY32 could be more satisfying. If you like a little more vocal dressing with your v-shaped salad, then Colarad may be preferable. That being said, I prefer TY32 by a hair. It's probably only because I'm a basshead, who also likes some sparkle; to me bass and treble are like love and marriage: this I tell you brother, you can't have one without the other.

updated top 5:

1) TY32
2) Colarad
3) OG Monk
4) Qian39
5) Fareal 32 v2

my apologies for the cheesy 'Married With Children' reference


----------



## gobin

Anyone happends to have both Seahf and TY Hi-Z earbuds? how are those compared to each others?
  
 EDIT: So I decided to order a pair of monk plus. Hope it can show me how neutral signature earbuds sound like.
 I might for a TY Hi-Z 150 if I need more bass from it I assume.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> When De'mun replies to your email
> 
> 
> 
> So hopefully I will own both Red Demun V1 and V2 soon. Hope to use the hell out of the V2 while keeping my V1 safe. I would listen to it so much more if I wasn't so worried I'd destroy it...


 
  
  


frederick wang said:


> lol, Romance of the three kingdoms is more literature than history, adapted to reflect the Confucian viewpoint of order. That aside, it is a fascinating story. There is a saying in China:"Water Margin is not for the junior, and Romance of the three kingdoms not for the senior", for the WM preaches violence and insubordination, and the ROT3K preaches craft and cunning.
> 
> Take an example from a story about Cao Cao, who would later be the most important figure in that period and almost reunited all China, after a failed assassination attempt at the most powerful and evil warlord Dong Zhuo(who would boil his enemy alive in a big pot and feed the lords, whoever refuse to eat end up in the pot), Cao Cao fled the capital city and take refuge in the countryside in the estate of Lu Boshe, an old friend of his fathers. A man called Chen Gong, admirer of his heroic deed, resigned from the government and followed him. That afternoon, Cao Cao took a nap, and heard the sound of knife-sharpening between his dreams, being a paranoid man, he immediately took his sword and killed the servants in the kitchen, and Lu Boshe's family too. Only then he found that a pig was being prepared for dinner. He and Chen Gong left the house, on the way they met Lu Boshe, Lu said to him:"Why are you leaving so soon my good nephew, I just went to town to buy wine." Cao Cao diverted his attention and killed him too. Chen Gong was shocked and asked him what the hell did he do, here comes Cao Cao's famous reply:"I'd rather betray the world, than let the world betray me(宁教我负天下人，休教天下人负我)."
> 
> ...


 
 Welp, De'mun decided to finally reply me. 
 And I must apologize for making a fuss about the slow reply of De'mun as he has just got a new born!

 So congratulations to De'mun!!!!!!!

 Now the bad news is that Indonesian postal regulation only allows the use of EMS for international shipment........
  
 To Federick:

 You my friend is amazing for knowing things like these, while I only have a faint recollection of them. I applaud you!!!!


----------



## tukangketik

audionewbi3 said:


> Now the bad news is that Indonesian postal regulation *only allows* the use of EMS for international shipment........


 
 I have to clarify on this matter. Indonesian Postal have three different option for international shipment. Based on the shipping time and cost from slower to fastest they are Registered, Paket Cepat (Fast Package) and EMS. On my case, I live in Jakarta and have several times shipped to overseas using either Registered or EMS.
  
 You can simulate shipping cost using posindonesia.co.id to see there are option for shipping type. Annnnddd, apparently there is e-packet option eventhough this not appy to every country
  
 Mostly using Registered would take about 15 days to reach recipient address, US can take longer to 30 days based on my experience. EMS could only take 5-7 days.

 Other things, some of Postal Agent have their own preference/regulation only take EMS for intenational shipping, usually they are small agent, not in the main post office in either Provinces or Municipality.


----------



## tinkertailor

tukangketik said:


> On my case, I live in Jakarta and have several times shipped to overseas using either Registered or EMS.


 
 You should consider starting up a business that markets Indonesian and asian earbuds to the world with cheap shipping ... I think people would be interested! Though I have no idea on what a business like that would entail. And maybe earbuds are only interesting for us few weirdos.


----------



## Frederick Wang

tinkertailor said:


> You should consider starting up a business that markets Indonesian and asian earbuds to the world with cheap shipping ... I think people would be interested! Though I have no idea on what a business like that would entail. And maybe earbuds are only interesting for us few weirdos.


 
 I'd like some Mandheling coffee beans on the side of earbuds.


----------



## golov17

https://m.facebook.com/notes/eli-audio/eli-audio-development-blog-01/1115001441955221/


----------



## Danneq

magitka27 said:


> looks like ive been missing much much things here, enjoying my asura 2.0 with x5ii High gain + gradual lowpass filter..
> 
> im planning to upgrade from asura 2.0, can you guys help to choose which earbuds that contains the character of asura 2.0 but in a refined sound-quality ?? maximum budget around $160... or should i stay with asura ??


 



 Here is the comparison between Asura 2 and Cypherus QFred that I mentioned 2 days ago (a Head fier who has got both wrote this in a PM to me). I agree with everything about QFred, but cannot really remember how Asura 2 sounded like. I just remember that that mids were in focus and that I wasn't overwhelmed by it and soon sold it to Vapman...

  


> When comparing this to QFred, the differences are pretty substantial. Personally, I find QFred to be neutral to slightly warm in it's overall tonality. Asura 2 on the other hand, is very warm/dark – tonality is extremely similar to Zen 2. I've read remarks mentioning that the Asura is bright, but I think this is only true by a small margin when compared to the Zen. The mids feel very natural with the QFred, which I think is a very rare quality. Asura is thinner in the mids, takes a step back, and I hear much more reverb (I like this a lot with certain music). Sub bass is very quick and light on the Asura and mid-bass doesn't bleed into the mids as much as it did with the Zen. Still, it's a far cry from how the QFred integrates bass so naturally. Treble extends nicely on both, without ever being fatiguing like it did with the Cygnus. A very nice quality about the Asura is the amount of air and width in the soundstage, while the QFred has a fuller and rounder soundstage.


 

 So Zen 2 is still my recommendation for an upgrade to Asura 2, while there still are differences between them.


----------



## Joy Boy

tinkertailor said:


> Someone in Indonesia should start an english-language web store and find cheap shipping. I think everyone here is really curious about all the variety of buds they have there. I have tried contacting various sellers on Facebook, its been difficult to communicate with them and get a good idea of prices, sound desc., etc.



Thanks. It bothers me for a while too. In indonesia, the growth of DIY earbud from varies production house is so amazing. But it lacks of promotion material and they still have some difficulties especially from language and shipping method.
There are a lot of great brand here like cypherus, de'mun, edimun by bengkel macro, abnormal labs, laki audio, etc.
I'll try to discuss it here on local group. 
I'll tell you later here


----------



## Townyj

joy boy said:


> Thanks. It bothers me for a while too. In indonesia, the growth of DIY earbud from varies production house is so amazing. But it lacks of promotion material and they still have some difficulties especially from language and shipping method.
> There are a lot of great brand here like cypherus, de'mun, edimun by bengkel macro, abnormal labs, laki audio, etc.
> I'll try to discuss it here on local group.
> I'll tell you later here


 
  
 I havent had much trouble when using Facebook, some of the resellers speak good english and have sold me Earbuds personally. Can put doubt in some peoples minds are you are just going by the word of the reseller, to be trustworthy etc.
  
 Would love to get a hold of the Crow Audio Monk+ modded and Laki Audio Raid. Laki never replied to me at all which was annoying.


----------



## Joy Boy

mochill said:


> How is the raid and how much







fajrinandro said:


> Actually, i just received my raid (raid bromo, first from 3 new lineup from batch2) today. I'll give my impression in a few day. But batch 1 is really famous in indonesia earbud forum. The ompressions of batxh 1 are agressive for high speed music, good vocal, and very good separation and detail for $10-15 price range. But unfortunately,it's so limited.
> And if you inyerested, you can find many more earbud modder and builder from indonesia that have a very good earbud too. Look at post by sempenyi in www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/9285#post_12822064



I agree. It's just a budget earbud but the sound is mindblowing. Especially their first line up, the raid bud. Fostunately i have the prototype for review (they asked me for it). I'll never sell it. It's my daily bud now.
But i hardly ever recommend it because they usually produced it limited. The last time they produce around 50 of it and it's sold out in just 15 minute in local audio forum.
So i pessimist it will fullfill the request for international request


----------



## aoitenshi6509

joy boy said:


> I agree. It's just a budget earbud but the sound is mindblowing. Especially their first line up, the raid bud. Fostunately i have the prototype for review (they asked me for it). I'll never sell it. It's my daily bud now.
> But i hardly ever recommend it because they usually produced it limited. The last time they produce around 50 of it and it's sold out in just 15 minute in local audio forum.
> So i pessimist it will fullfill the request for international request




Hi,
Raid builders actually has the spirit to ship their custom buds overseas, but the shipping cost is what they concerned.

If there is someone or a local audio store at USA whom willing to be raid reseller, I am sure the raid builders will be excited


----------



## tukangketik

tinkertailor said:


> You should consider starting up a business that markets Indonesian and asian earbuds to the world with cheap shipping ... I think people would be interested! Though I have no idea on what a business like that would entail. And maybe earbuds are only interesting for us few weirdos.


 
  
 There is this one that I recommend, rholupat.com. He already listed the edimun and demun. http://www.rholupat.com/product?page=2
 And I assume other webshop might emerge. 


frederick wang said:


> I'd like some Mandheling coffee beans on the side of earbuds.


 
 Funny thing is. I sometimes pack some of the earbuds alongside with either tea or coffee so they can enjoy their quality time perfectly. Mandailing coffee is good.


----------



## Saoshyant

golov17 said:


> https://m.facebook.com/notes/eli-audio/eli-audio-development-blog-01/1115001441955221/


 
  
 Ugh, I might have to get on Facebook to give these a try.


----------



## Townyj

tukangketik said:


> There is this one that I recommend, rholupat.com. He already listed the edimun and demun. http://www.rholupat.com/product?page=2
> And I assume other webshop might emerge.
> Funny thing is. I sometimes pack some of the earbuds alongside with either tea or coffee so they can enjoy their quality time perfectly. Mandailing coffee is good.


 
  
 I agree Adhi is awesome to deal with, glad to see him with the Edimun aswell.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Anyone wanna let me Demo Red Demun for a week?


----------



## aoitenshi6509

These are my favourite earbuds :



From left to right :
Custom Kanzenoka Yin Yang V1.2 40 ohm
Elibuds SABIA V1 32 ohm
Ve Monk 32 ohm
Ve Monk 32 ohm with demun cable and palladium oyaide jack

I think I am going to sell that MonkDemun (red cable)


----------



## Saoshyant

aoitenshi6509 said:


> These are my favourite earbuds :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 How does the modified Monk sound compared to the original?


----------



## aoitenshi6509

saoshyant said:


> How does the modified Monk sound compared to the original?




The impression is subjective, based to my ears 

I'm not good at impression, but here I go :
To my ears, the MonkDemun has better bass, more solid compared to original monk
The mids and the highs are also improved a lot compared to original monk, vocals are a bit forward.

The downsides are :
1. The MonkDemun cable is stiff, for me this earbud is definitely not for outdoor use.
2. The MonkDemun required an amp to unleash its potential, even an entry level amp like Fiio E6 was able to deliver a good sound to my ears.
3. The MonkDemun sounds better when connected to my ThinkPad W510 laptop, but it sounds not-so-good when connected directly to my xiaomi redmi note 2 smartphone.

That's all I can remembered on my MonkDemun 

The last time I am hearing my MonkDemun, probably 5-6 months ago


----------



## Saoshyant

Hmm, might be my kind of sound.


----------



## Vignelli

As an indonesian i approved those message.. We are leading in diy earbud industry.. Haha.. 

Btw One of the best thing about mojo is you can h2h 2 earphones at the same time. .

Monk 1st gen with silver retered oyaide vs tunes earbud with dbe cable


----------



## dwayniac

I received a Seahf 32 ohm and Qian39 the other day. I really likes what I could hear from the Seahf but the left driver was significantly lower than the right driver. The Qian39 is just okay to my ears with seemingly rolled of treble. I ordered a TY Hi-Z 32 and took a gamble on a DIY EMX50. If the next two earbuds turn out to be average to unpleasant,I will try another Seaf 32 ohm.


----------



## vapman

dwayniac said:


> I received a Seahf 32 ohm and Qian39 the other day. I really likes what I could hear from the Seahf but the left driver was significantly lower than the right driver. The Qian39 is just okay to my ears with seemingly rolled of treble. I ordered a TY Hi-Z 32 and took a gamble on a DIY EMX50. If the next two earbuds turn out to be average to unpleasant,I will try another Seaf 32 ohm.


 
 If you like Seahf 32 ohm sound, Qian39 will forever be too dark to you! You should get a replacement for the seahf you bought though instead of having to pay for a 2nd


----------



## dwayniac

vapman said:


> If you like Seahf 32 ohm sound, Qian39 will forever be too dark to you! You should get a replacement for the seahf you bought though instead of having to pay for a 2nd


 
 I have contacted the seller but no response yet.


----------



## gobin

dwayniac said:


> I received a Seahf 32 ohm and Qian39 the other day. I really likes what I could hear from the Seahf but the left driver was significantly lower than the right driver. The Qian39 is just okay to my ears with seemingly rolled of treble. I ordered a TY Hi-Z 32 and took a gamble on a DIY EMX50. If the next two earbuds turn out to be average to unpleasant,I will try another Seaf 32 ohm.



Could I request a comparison between the ty hi-z and seahf once your ty hi-z arrive?
Thanks in advance.


----------



## springbay

tukangketik said:


> There is this one that I recommend, rholupat.com. He already listed the edimun and demun. http://www.rholupat.com/product?page=2
> And I assume other webshop might emerge.


 
  
 Cool, thanks. I finally placed and order for both of these. 
  
 Also Blox B320 arrived at Swedish Customs yesterday. I hope they will not sit on them for weeks.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Look what showed up at my door today:


  
 Inside was three Puresounds earbuds.


  
 I quickly tried out the PS100-600 and even with zero burn it, it sounded wonderful.

 I will report back in a few days when I am ready to talk about their true sound signatures and quality.
  
 ..


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

bloodypenguin said:


> Look what showed up at my door today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Had my eyes on these for a while now, especially with their *BOLD* Claims. Can you compare to the Red'Deum? The PS100-600 is price around $140 USD right?


----------



## vapman

Argh im still waiting for my puresounds. They are hanging out in BP's city!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

midnightempest said:


> Had my eyes on these for a while now, especially with their *BOLD* Claims. Can you compare to the Red'Deum? The PS100-600 is price around $140 USD right?


 
  
 I don't own a Red'Deum...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 --


----------



## Joy Boy

bloodypenguin said:


> Look what showed up at my door today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I got my eyes on this bud too. I hope you share your first impression soon.
Dont have much money left, must be very careful how and for which bud i should spend it for now


----------



## vapman

midnightempest said:


> Had my eyes on these for a while now, especially with their *BOLD* Claims. Can you compare to the Red'Deum? The PS100-600 is price around $140 USD right?


 
  


joy boy said:


> I got my eyes on this bud too. I hope you share your first impression soon.
> Dont have much money left, must be very careful how and for which bud i should spend it for now


 
 I will have the 600 soon as well and compare it to red demun and others.


----------



## jrazmar

I have been away from this thread for a while and got surprised when posts count reached to over 1k already. It goes to show that the earbud game is not ending soon. Anyway, the last time I was here, it was the Shozy BK that got me interested. What's the verdict on that earbuds? Is it really a significant upgrade from Cygnus and/or Zen 2? I am starting to think if it's worth the high price tag. Any advice is appreciated.


----------



## music4mhell

Knok Knok...The Elephant in the room..


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Burn Baby Burn!


  
 --


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> Knok Knok...The Elephant in the room..


 
 Damn is this CAX BLACK?


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Knok Knok...The Elephant in the room..
> ...


 
 Yes buddy, the contender for Zen black


----------



## vapman

music4mhell said:


> Yes buddy, the contender for Zen black


 
 Wow man I can't wait to hear your thoughts. Might be the first worthwhile Zen Black to anything comparison on the site.


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Yes buddy, the contender for Zen black
> ...


 
 But Herry-San has strictly said to write the review after 200 hours burn in 
 So, it will take a while..!!


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> Wow man I can't wait to hear your thoughts. Might be the first worthwhile Zen Black to anything comparison on the site.


 


http://www.head-fi.org/t/826036/cypherus-audio-products-discussion-thread-campfred-earbuds-qfred-earbuds-and-cax-golden-reference/330#post_13183994


----------



## Townyj

Just got my Blox B320.... when amped properly. Damnnnnn!


----------



## Luan Dee

townyj said:


> Just got my Blox B320.... when amped properly. Damnnnnn!


 
  
 How's the B320 compared to Cygnus and Diomnes?


----------



## vapman

Anyone know any buds with almost too forward midrange? I'm finding nothing I have quite matches the Portapro on midrange presentation and I'm wonder if there's an even more middy bud than that. Something that would make even the Cygnus seem too laid back on mids. Any ideas anyone?


----------



## aoitenshi6509

vapman said:


> Anyone know any buds with almost too forward midrange? I'm finding nothing I have quite matches the Portapro on midrange presentation and I'm wonder if there's an even more middy bud than that. Something that would make even the Cygnus seem too laid back on mids. Any ideas anyone?


 
  
 I only know custom earbud from Indonesia, Elibuds ASTI


----------



## vapman

aoitenshi6509 said:


> I only know custom earbud from Indonesia, Elibuds ASTI


 
 How much $???
 Can it be bought or is it old? Last time i tried to buy Elibuds the model was limited edition and gone by the time i could get it...
  
 Red Demun is just awesome on mids but i want MORE!!!


----------



## Danneq

I remember Sunrise AS-Feeling II as being quite focused on mids. I think that the 120ohm Sunrise SW-Dragon 2 was more focused on mids. Both are discontinued, however.

 I saw a listing for Crossroads HR-1 here on Head fi. It is also discontinued but is described as being similar to Yuin PK1 but with the main focus on mids.

 Then there's always QFred.


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> I remember Sunrise AS-Feeling II as being quite focused on mids. I think that the 120ohm Sunrise SW-Dragon 2 was more focused on mids. Both are discontinued, however.
> 
> I saw a listing for Crossroads HR-1 here on Head fi. It is also discontinued but is described as being similar to Yuin PK1 but with the main focus on mids.
> 
> Then there's always QFred.


 
 Is QFred mid focused but laid back or like all the mids ruthlessly shoved in your face? I'm looking for the latter... I heard the SW Dragon 2 a while back and barely remember the sound of it!
  
 I have a AS-Feeling II somewhere. Ought to go find it now!


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Anyone know any buds with almost too forward midrange? I'm finding nothing I have quite matches the Portapro on midrange presentation and I'm wonder if there's an even more middy bud than that. Something that would make even the Cygnus seem too laid back on mids. Any ideas anyone?


Ucotech es903-905 http://mg.gmarket.co.kr/Search/Search?topKeyword=es903


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> Ucotech es903-905 http://mg.gmarket.co.kr/Search/Search?topKeyword=es903


 
 thank you! you have these?


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> thank you! you have these?


yep


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> yep


 
 then i will buy


----------



## golov17

Btw, i'm waiting new 320 Ohms LaoZe buds  (damn, they not 320 Ohm, error  )

from banned seller ☺


----------



## vapman

Hehe. I need to save money after this but I bought the Ucotech. $ 61.79 with EMS shipping to USA (only EMS available.... argh)


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Hehe. I need to save money after this but I bought the Ucotech. $
> 61.79 with EMS shipping to USA
> 
> (only EMS available.... argh)


Congrats, yep, only EMS to Russia too, so fast ✈✈✈


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> Congrats, yep, only EMS to Russia too, so fast ✈✈✈


 
 I looked at a bunch of other countries and it was just EMS to all others too. haha
 i hope i like em


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> Anyone know any buds with almost too forward midrange? I'm finding nothing I have quite matches the Portapro on midrange presentation and I'm wonder if there's an even more middy bud than that. Something that would make even the Cygnus seem too laid back on mids. Any ideas anyone?



Or maybe you can try Yuin pk1, crossroad HR-1 or Ubiquo es903. I found that these three has too forward mid for my taste. Even cygnus feels too laidback compared to them


----------



## vapman

joy boy said:


> Or maybe you can try Yuin pk1, crossroad HR-1 or Ubiquo es903. I found that these three has too forward mid for my taste. Even cygnus feels too laidback compared to them


 
 Ahhh, yuin pk1.... i forgot all about you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 haven't had for years
 will check HR-1, thanks! i looked at es903 too but it was over $100, where es905 was $60 with $18~ EMS to USA....


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> Is QFred mid focused but laid back or like all the mids ruthlessly shoved in your face? I'm looking for the latter... I heard the SW Dragon 2 a while back and barely remember the sound of it!
> 
> I have a AS-Feeling II somewhere. Ought to go find it now!


 


 I would not consider QFred as being laid back, like for example CampFred. Still, QFred is so refined compared to for example Cygnus so it's perhaps not exactly what you seek. The mids are not really "shoved in your face", but they are right there in front of you. It is like you can "touch the vocals" and that they are hanging in the air right before your face. Also the highs and lows are pretty good as well.

 AS-Feeling II is on around the same level as Yuin PK3. PK3 has got a focus on mids but to me that mid focus paled in comparison to AS-Feeling II. I did prefer PK3 since it was not only mids like AS-Feeling II.


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> Ahhh, yuin pk1.... i forgot all about you   haven't had for years
> will check HR-1, thanks! i looked at es903 too but it was over $100, where es905 was $60 with $18~ EMS to USA....



Yeah, in my country PK1 still one of the most favourite earbud. But it's just not my taste. Even HR-1 is too mid-centric for me. But maybe it's the one you looking for.
Unfortunately it's a rare one. And that makes me realize that nowadays not many builder or production house made a mid-centric type earbud. Even cygnus is still too allround i think.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> I looked at a bunch of other countries and it was just EMS to all others too. haha
> i hope i like em


try with full foams, they bright


----------



## luedriver

I found some AS-Feeling II on ebay if anyone is interested
  
 the seller also sells other earbuds like hisoundaudio paa-1 and astrotek dx-60
  
link
  
 edit: also saw that they were sold on penon, but now out of stock


----------



## golov17

Feeling ii dryers are too sound for my taste. Boring


----------



## chibihaji

Anyone know of any MMCX earbuds other than the **** PT15? I'm looking for a pair to use with bluetooth replacement cables but unfortunately I'm not a fan of PT15's sound signature. 

Wondering if there are any other good MMCX earbud options out there.


----------



## vapman

chibihaji said:


> Anyone know of any MMCX earbuds other than the **** PT15? I'm looking for a pair to use with bluetooth replacement cables but unfortunately I'm not a fan of PT15's sound signature.
> 
> Wondering if there are any other good MMCX earbud options out there.


 
 yinman 600


----------



## golov17

chibihaji said:


> Anyone know of any MMCX earbuds other than the **** PT15? I'm looking for a pair to use with bluetooth replacement cables but unfortunately I'm not a fan of PT15's sound signature.
> 
> Wondering if there are any other good MMCX earbud options out there.


 New Daik Wooden Earbuds With MMCX Connetor DK-Pu Bass Earbud DK-Song DIY Magic Sound


----------



## chibihaji

vapman said:


> yinman 600


 

 Thanks for the suggestion! Just looked them up and they looked pretty impressive. I have my doubts as to whether or not a lowly 15$ bluetooth cable can drive them properly though.


golov17 said:


> New Daik Wooden Earbuds With MMCX Connetor DK-Pu Bass Earbud DK-Song DIY Magic Sound


 

 Sweet! Didn't know about that one. Gonna order a pair to give it a try. Thanks!


----------



## vapman

chibihaji said:


> Thanks for the suggestion! Just looked them up and they looked pretty impressive. I have my doubts as to whether or not a lowly 15$ bluetooth cable can drive them properly though.
> 
> Sweet! Didn't know about that one. Gonna order a pair to give it a try. Thanks!


 
 Oh lol, yeah I guess it would be a problem with bluetooth cables


----------



## JASru

BK and Pinnacle in one day. I gonna enjoy this evening.


----------



## golov17

jasru said:


> BK and Pinnacle in one day. I gonna enjoy this evening.


woohoo, nice


----------



## vapman

jasru said:


> BK and Pinnacle in one day. I gonna enjoy this evening.


 
 hopin you will post some thoughts


----------



## Townyj

luan dee said:


> How's the B320 compared to Cygnus and Diomnes?




My Diomnes is on order so once i get them i will compare. I enjoyed the B320 sound straight away compared to my Cygnus, will give a little more indepth impressions soon


----------



## vapman

@Townyj  do you still have either red demun or edimun v3 to compare with it?


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> @Townyj  do you still have either red demun or edimun v3 to compare with it?


 


 You're looking at the new owner of Townyj's Edimun V3 and Red De'mun!


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> You're looking at the new owner of Townyj's Edimun V3 and Red De'mun!




What the... Someone would give up BOTH those?!


----------



## Danneq

He told me that he was looking to switch to full size headphones. But apparently he has regretted that decision. I'm grateful that I could buy 'em both at the same time.


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> He told me that he was looking to switch to full size headphones. But apparently he has regretted that decision. I'm grateful that I could buy 'em both at the same time.




Gold plug or rhodium btw? Curious if you've got to hear both plug versions by now.


----------



## magitka27

danneq said:


> Here is the comparison between Asura 2 and Cypherus QFred that I mentioned 2 days ago (a Head fier who has got both wrote this in a PM to me). I agree with everything about QFred, but cannot really remember how Asura 2 sounded like. I just remember that that mids were in focus and that I wasn't overwhelmed by it and soon sold it to Vapman...
> 
> 
> 
> So Zen 2 is still my recommendation for an upgrade to Asura 2, while there still are differences between them.


 
 thank you for your valuable information mate, so i will save more money to buy zen 2  

 have you tried rose masya ??


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> Gold plug or rhodium btw? Curious if you've got to hear both plug versions by now.




My old pair of Edimun was with rhodium plug and my current is with gold plug. I remember the rhodium version as having a more energetic sound, not too far from Zen 1. The gold version is a bit more subdued in comparison.



magitka27 said:


> thank you for your valuable information mate, so i will save more money to buy zen 2
> 
> 
> have you tried rose masya ??




Don't thank me, thank the guy who wrote the excellent comparison.

I used to own Rose Mojito but the treble was too much for me...


----------



## notamethlab

Yinman 64ohm, I don't think these have been posted yet. I was curious to see how they fair against K's 64 and Monk+ and at that price I went ahead and ordered them 

YINMAN Earphone 64 ohm Impedance In Ear Earphone Earbud 64 ohms Earbud Flat Head Plug Earplugs Kill Monk Earbud
 http://s.aliexpress.com/EJRnuQ3I 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## noknok23

Seahf 650 with walnut sounds absolutely wonderful with 80s productions. Listening to my obscur Synth pop files I gathered the last 2 years is a delight. It's sounds very natural and I hear all the little defects of slightly off production.


----------



## Townyj

vapman said:


> @Townyj
> do you still have either red demun or edimun v3 to compare with it?







danneq said:


> You're looking at the new owner of Townyj's Edimun V3 and Red De'mun!







vapman said:


> What the... Someone would give up BOTH those?!







danneq said:


> He told me that he was looking to switch to full size headphones. But apparently he has regretted that decision. I'm grateful that I could buy 'em both at the same time.




Haha geeze  well i kinda found that the MX500 shell fit my ears better. I do however miss both of them dearly. Yes.. switching to full size hasnt quite worked out for me, so back to earbuds i go


----------



## music4mhell

Burn in machine..


----------



## Danneq

townyj said:


> Haha geeze  well i kinda found that the MX500 shell fit my ears better. I do however miss both of them dearly. Yes.. switching to full size hasnt quite worked out for me, so back to earbuds i go




Sorry for buying your Edimun and Red De'mun. 

Great that you like the new Blox. It's a special little brand and I'm happy to see new buds being released from them. 

Looking forward to your impressions of Diomnes. They still haven't sent out my pair...


----------



## vapman

notamethlab said:


> Yinman 64ohm, I don't think these have been posted yet. I was curious to see how they fair against K's 64 and Monk+ and at that price I went ahead and ordered them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I didn't know about this either. Great brand, happy to support them. Can't wait for my 500. (Yes i am about to click buy on the 64ohm)
  
 Man didnt I post I was done with new earbuds a few days ago???? arghhhhhhhh


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Any earbuds that has Wide Soundstage similar to Full size Headphones?


----------



## vapman

midnightempest said:


> Any earbuds that has Wide Soundstage similar to Full size Headphones?


 
 Go read all about Cypherus and also Edimun v3.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

vapman said:


> Go read all about Cypherus and also Edimun v3.


 
  
 Alright thanks Bud,
  
 Also wanna ask if you happen to know any other earbuds that has similar / same sized Shell as the Qian39 that are worth checking out? I've bough 3 earbuds so far and the Qian39 is THE most comfortable. It fits so well into my ear w/ foam.


----------



## vapman

midnightempest said:


> Alright thanks Bud,
> 
> Also wanna ask if you happen to know any other earbuds that has similar / same sized Shell as the Qian39 that are worth checking out? I've bough 3 earbuds so far and the Qian39 is THE most comfortable. It fits so well into my ear w/ foam.


 
 AFAIK Qian39 is a unique design, someone correct me if im wrong. you can swap other 14.8/15mm into its shell.


----------



## waynes world

vapman said:


> Red Demun wins on separation, soundstage. stage is more intimate on Red Demun but more focused too.
> 
> edimun v3 has a more bigger sound but focuses on the treble and  bass over the mids whereas the Red Demun is Zen 2 levels of mid presence.
> 
> ...




What's the best place to buy the Red Demun (and apologies if this has been asked 100 times before!)


----------



## aoitenshi6509

waynes world said:


> What's the best place to buy the Red Demun (and apologies if this has been asked 100 times before!)




Hi,
I will try to inform edimun builder and I will post the link where you can buy edimun V3..


----------



## waynes world

aoitenshi6509 said:


> Hi,
> I will try to inform edimun builder and I will post the link where you can buy edimun V3..




Thanks. Do you know roughly how much they cost?


----------



## vapman

waynes world said:


> Thanks. Do you know roughly how much they cost?


 
 Edimun v3 gold & rhodium sold by the maker here. http://bengkelmacro.com/v2/product-category/earphones/
 For red de'mun, contact de'mun custom cable by email or facebook. Cost is 60usd + shipping.


----------



## weedophile

midnightempest said:


> Alright thanks Bud,
> 
> Also wanna ask if you happen to know any other earbuds that has similar / same sized Shell as the Qian39 that are worth checking out? I've bough 3 earbuds so far and the Qian39 is THE most comfortable. It fits so well into my ear w/ foam.




Yea i had the exact sentiments till i received the Sony MDR E808+ but the cable is abit short.


----------



## vapman

weedophile said:


> Yea i had the exact sentiments till i received the Sony MDR E808+ but the cable is abit short.


 
 I am gonna put the silver k's 64 cable on one of my e808+.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

It looks like I just spent $175.00 U.S. plus currency conversion (for using Canadian dollars) to buy 20 pairs of headphones because of the reviews on this website.
  
 I probably should have just bought a pair of the best ear buds instead, right? Maybe those Edimun V3 Gold, you're talking about? It would also have been $100.00 U.S. dollars cheaper.


----------



## vapman

laughmoredaily said:


> It looks like I just spent $175.00 U.S. plus currency conversion (for using Canadian dollars) to buy 20 pairs of headphones because of the reviews on this website.
> 
> I probably should have just bought a pair of the best ear buds instead, right? Maybe those Edimun V3 Gold, you're talking about? It would also have been $100.00 U.S. dollars cheaper.


 
 That's why the classifieds exist here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 BTW, it seems from what @Danneq  says that the Rhodium Edimun v3 will offer you a more energetic sound whereas the gold plug has a slightly more laid back sound.


----------



## golov17

http://www.rholupat.com/products/red-demun.html
http://www.rholupat.com/edimun-v3-rhodium.html


waynes world said:


> What's the best place to buy the Red Demun (and apologies if this has been asked 100 times before!)


----------



## golov17

midnightempest said:


> Alright thanks Bud,
> 
> Also wanna ask if you happen to know any other earbuds that has similar / same sized Shell as the Qian39 that are worth checking out? I've bough 3 earbuds so far and the Qian39 is THE most comfortable. It fits so well into my ear w/ foam.


Shozy Cygnus, Shozy BK


----------



## vapman

Oh yeah how are people feeling about Shozy BK with all the other high end contenders lately?
  
 My TY 650 I don't love enough to use it almost ever, but I still enjoy the Cygnus time to time so wondering if BK is worth it.... @AudioNewbi3  how you liking yours? I forget who else has it. (And BK = Stardust?)


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Oh yeah how are people feeling about Shozy BK with all the other high end contenders lately?
> 
> My TY 650 I don't love enough to use it almost ever, but I still enjoy the Cygnus time to time so wondering if BK is worth it.... @AudioNewbi3
> how you liking yours? I forget who else has it. (And BK = Stardust?)


yep BK same Stardust, on the way to me..


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman http://penonaudio.com/Earphones/earbuds/Hisoundaudio-HSA-E351


----------



## golov17

http://s.aliexpress.com/jyeqEJNV


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> vapman http://penonaudio.com/Earphones/earbuds/Hisoundaudio-HSA-E351


ATH C770 too


----------



## tinkertailor

Monk foams?


----------



## vapman

Those Hisoundaudio look like the qian39 shell, cool. Anywhere to get a set in the USA easily or I gotta import it:?


----------



## golov17

tinkertailor said:


> Monk foams?


always


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Those Hisoundaudio look like the qian39 shell, cool. Anywhere to get a set in the USA easily or I gotta import it:?


Search on ebay


----------



## rkw

laughmoredaily said:


> I probably should have just bought a pair of the best ear buds instead, right?


 
 There is a new "best" every week and you have to keep buying to keep up.


----------



## Townyj

danneq said:


> Sorry for buying your Edimun and Red De'mun.
> 
> Great that you like the new Blox. It's a special little brand and I'm happy to see new buds being released from them.
> 
> Looking forward to your impressions of Diomnes. They still haven't sent out my pair...




I spoke to Hersang, my Diomnes is still being built aswell. 

Well ive had the Red Demun in a cart a few times now  but i wont put myself through the fit issues again.

Its taken 6-7yrs or so for me to finally try Blox. So im pretty glad to have a pair finally.


----------



## Saoshyant

LaughMoreDaily Your best bet if you wabt to try that route is figure out your preferred sound signature, do your research on what mighr be closest, and hope you love it when it arrives. If you don't love it or just want to see if there's better, try again. Or you can be like a lot of us and collect earbuds as it's a very limited group unlike IEMs or cans.

Also, has any one given Audio Technica ATH-CHX7 or CHX5 a try? The 7 is relatively cheap, and the 5 is quite inexpensive. I have no clue if this is a new or older model, but never noticed them before.


----------



## waynes world

vapman said:


> Edimun v3 gold & rhodium sold by the maker here. http://bengkelmacro.com/v2/product-category/earphones/
> For red de'mun, contact de'mun custom cable by email or facebook. Cost is 60usd + shipping.


 
  


golov17 said:


> http://www.rholupat.com/products/red-demun.html
> http://www.rholupat.com/edimun-v3-rhodium.html


 
  
 Thanks to you both!
  
 How would you say either of them compare to the Zen 1.0's? (which I adore)


----------



## springbay

Blox B320 arrived some hours ago in the cutest parcel I've ever seen with a red lace around like a Christmas gift.
 First tried them with my phone and the included foams. Sound was really strange, like no other buds I've ever heard before.
 Changed to VE thin foams and put them in an amp. The highs opened up immediately, and the sound signature have become more and more rich (tamed) and more pleasing the longer I've listened.
 This might be the first time ever I've noticed a significant burn in factor in any head gear. Probably because they don't sound remotely the same now as they did a few hours ago.
 Other than the slightly annoying microphonics of the cable, this has been a pure pleasure ride so far.
 I just hope the sound signature will not change much more over time, because I like them very much right now with punchy bass that don't get boomy and pleasing highs that don't get fatiguing. In other words, just what I look for in head gear. They have more impressive depth than any of my other buds, and still don't lack too much micro detail.
 I'd say they are good companion/complement buds to the K's 500. The B320 shine where the K500 somewhat lack and vice versa.


----------



## vapman

springbay said:


> Blox B320 arrived some hours ago in the cutest parcel I've ever seen with a red lace around like a Christmas gift.
> First tried them with my phone and the included foams. Sound was really strange, like no other buds I've ever heard before.
> Changed to VE thin foams and put them in an amp. The highs opened up immediately, and the sound signature have become more and more rich (tamed) and more pleasing the longer I've listened.
> This might be the first time ever I've noticed a significant burn in factor in any head gear. Probably because they don't sound remotely the same now as they did a few hours ago.
> ...


 
 Argh, you're tempting me to order one! How are the mids post burn in, and hopefully (for me) do you mean bass depth?
  
 Also, does it have a thin junky cable that isn't as good looking as the Monk cable like old blox? I kind of expect any Blox needs a recable but it'd be nice if the cables weren't quite as cheap as they used to be.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> Oh yeah how are people feeling about Shozy BK with all the other high end contenders lately?
> 
> My TY 650 I don't love enough to use it almost ever, but I still enjoy the Cygnus time to time so wondering if BK is worth it.... @AudioNewbi3  how you liking yours? I forget who else has it. (And BK = Stardust?)


 
 Unfortunately, I was disgusted by Shozy's QC and did not buy the BK hahaha. I only own it's brother, the Cygnus White.


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> Unfortunately, I was disgusted by Shozy's QC and did not buy the BK hahaha. I only own it's brother, the Cygnus White.


 
 Ahhh, my bad dude, for some reason I thought you posted @JASru pic of the BK the other day..


----------



## headjelly

springbay said:


> Blox B320 arrived some hours ago in the cutest parcel I've ever seen with a red lace around like a Christmas gift.
> First tried them with my phone and the included foams. Sound was really strange, like no other buds I've ever heard before.
> Changed to VE thin foams and put them in an amp. The highs opened up immediately, and the sound signature have become more and more rich (tamed) and more pleasing the longer I've listened.
> This might be the first time ever I've noticed a significant burn in factor in any head gear. Probably because they don't sound remotely the same now as they did a few hours ago.
> ...


 
  
 Wait for at least 25 hours, the sound signature changes dramatically. Out of the box, B320 were very similar to Boarseman MX98S. After two weeks, I gave the Boarseman to a friend because B320 had better resolution and much wider soundstage. Also, they seem to be easier to drive after the burn-in.


----------



## notamethlab

I just finished recabling a pair of e808+ and I must say I can hear an improvement. Between my regular pair and the recabled one the recabled sound s more controlled and the highs have been tamed. Also the y-cable is MUCH better than the j-cable.


----------



## vapman

notamethlab said:


> I just finished recabling a pair of e808+ and I must say I can hear an improvement. Between my regular pair and the recabled one the recabled sound s more controlled and the highs have been tamed. Also the y-cable is MUCH better than the j-cable.


 
 Lookin good bro. I need to get off my butt and recable one of my sets.


----------



## notamethlab

vapman said:


> Lookin good bro. I need to get off my butt and recable one of my sets.



It's definitely worth it, especially if you can't stand j-cords like myself.


----------



## gobin

notamethlab said:


> I just finished recabling a pair of e808+ and I must say I can hear an improvement. Between my regular pair and the recabled one the recabled sound s more controlled and the highs have been tamed. Also the y-cable is MUCH better than the j-cable.


 
 Where did you buy the cable? I'm thinking about getting into DIY stuff.


----------



## tinkertailor

Hey guys, just came across this reddit AMA with Lee from Venture Electronics. Quite funny. Someone says the MP hurts their ears and Lee basically says you have to just jam in their like one does in sex until the hole fits LOL (paraphrasing) 
  
 https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/4jz3ip/hey_this_is_lee_the_ceo_of_venture_electronics/


----------



## JASru

vapman said:


> Ahhh, my bad dude, for some reason I thought you posted @JASru pic of the BK the other day..


 
 I should note that for the price Shozy really looks DIYish and lame. Sounds good anyway, though after hearing Edimun V3 the wow-effect was not so big. 
 I mean BK are really good, but there is nothing to cause you wow, after you've heard proper cans and earbuds. They are just slightly better in every aspect than your every 10-30usd bud, all that sums up for pretty big difference, but then again, the expectations were too damn high =/


----------



## music4mhell

jasru said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > Ahhh, my bad dude, for some reason I thought you posted @JASru pic of the BK the other day..
> ...


 
 My BK/Stardust are in the pouch from last 1 month unopened


----------



## vapman

Sorry to hear that bro  but i am glad they at least sound good.
  
 E808+ modders: i have not opened one of these myself yet, too scared to damage it, are they glued shut or can you open it by hand?


----------



## notamethlab

vapman said:


> Sorry to hear that bro  but i am glad they at least sound good.
> 
> E808+ modders: i have not opened one of these myself yet, too scared to damage it, are they glued shut or can you open it by hand?



No glue on mine, pull on the lip gently and they should pop open pretty easily.


----------



## notamethlab

gobin said:


> Where did you buy the cable? I'm thinking about getting into DIY stuff.


 
It was actually an extra Trinity Audio cable I wasn't using.


----------



## Danneq

tinkertailor said:


> Hey guys, just came across this reddit AMA with Lee from Venture Electronics. Quite funny. Someone says the MP hurts their ears and Lee basically says you have to just jam in their like one does in sex until the hole fits LOL (paraphrasing)
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/4jz3ip/hey_this_is_lee_the_ceo_of_venture_electronics/


 


 Hmmm... Isn't it better to use some sort of lubricant?


----------



## kurtextrem

The Monk+ foams give the Stardust a somewhat different feeling. For me it makes the bass more apparent than with the donuts, and pushes voices slightly to the background.


----------



## Danneq

townyj said:


> I spoke to Hersang, my Diomnes is still being built aswell.
> 
> Well ive had the Red Demun in a cart a few times now  but i wont put myself through the fit issues again.
> 
> Its taken 6-7yrs or so for me to finally try Blox. So im pretty glad to have a pair finally.


 


 Regarding the fit issue with Edimun and Red De'mun, the solution that @golov17 and I use works very well with most earbuds where the fit is not great because the earbuds are a bit small.. Get a Monk+ with ex pack. You cannot have too many Monk+ by the way. Take a pair of the rubber rings with fins and carefully cut off the fins. Put them over the Edimun & Red De'mun and then put foams over. Voila!


----------



## gobin

notamethlab said:


> It was actually an extra Trinity Audio cable I wasn't using.



Interesting. That might explain why it looks somewhat familiar. 
So how did you remove the two connectors? just cut it out?


----------



## vapman

I just tried silver cable on a set of my E808+'s. Incredibly smooth, beautiful sound, ridiculously nice mids and highs. But, it takes away the bass impact. The bass is still detailed but doesn't have nearly the impact of the stock cable. Good for non-bassheads, if anyone wants to hear it. I don't think I'll really ever use it on account of the lack of bass 
  
  
 In my quest for a mid heavy bud, I actually was reminded by a fellow head-fi'er that I DIY'd some out of some drivers he had also worked with a few months ago. I found them, tossed on some foams... woah. I could use a little more mids and hoping the Ucotech will deliver, but this is a great tone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It's like a Cygnus except with every aspect of sound way more in-your-face. Also pictured is an empty one of the kind of shells I am using on these. Bass isn't top tier but it goes nice and deep.


----------



## notamethlab

gobin said:


> Interesting. That might explain why it looks somewhat familiar.
> So how did you remove the two connectors? just cut it out?



Yes the aluminum piece of the connection unscrews which lets you cut closest and keep more wire.


----------



## Townyj

danneq said:


> Regarding the fit issue with Edimun and Red De'mun, the solution that @golov17
> and I use works very well with most earbuds where the fit is not great because the earbuds are a bit small.. Get a Monk+ with ex pack. You cannot have too many Monk+ by the way. Take a pair of the rubber rings with fins and carefully cut off the fins. Put them over the Edimun & Red De'mun and then put foams over. Voila!




I tried the expack rubber rings on both the Edimun and Demun the fit was to large. Also double full foamed, full foam + donut. None of them worked which is why i sold them to you  the double foamed made the fit better, just screwed the sound alot.

Also... i highly prefer the TP16 over the Monk+


----------



## golov17

music4mhell said:


> My BK/Stardust are in the pouch from last 1 month unopened


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


>


 
 Yeah @music4mhell  can send them to me for a review hahaha


----------



## golov17

danneq said:


> Regarding the fit issue with Edimun and Red De'mun, the solution that @golov17
> and I use works very well with most earbuds where the fit is not great because the earbuds are a bit small.. Get a Monk+ with ex pack. You cannot have too many Monk+ by the way. Take a pair of the rubber rings with fins and carefully cut off the fins. Put them over the Edimun & Red De'mun and then put foams over. Voila!


or, just rubber rings, like this


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


 
 Let me review first  I haven't put a single review on headfi yet  So lazy me..it's high time i should start reviewing!


----------



## Townyj

I would rate the B320 higher than my old Red Demun and Edimun, this is merely going off my memory. But these things have some crazy detail going on, had my toes tapping and head bopping along for the past half n hour.
  
 The sound is hard to explain, has this holographic feel to it. Feels a little surreal in a sense.
  
 Must admit they have microphonics near the cable entry which is a bummer, only makes a racket when the music is off.


----------



## Danneq

townyj said:


> I would rate the B320 higher than my old Red Demun and Edimun, this is merely going off my memory. But these things have some crazy detail going on, had my toes tapping and head bopping along for the past half n hour.
> 
> The sound is hard to explain, has this holographic feel to it. Feels a little surreal in a sense.
> 
> Must admit they have microphonics near the cable entry which is a bummer, only makes a racket when the music is off.


 


 Welcome to the world of Blox!


----------



## Townyj

danneq said:


> Welcome to the world of Blox!


 
  
 Kinda wish i could hear the TM7 now , really... i am considering my direction now! You know... if you ever wanted to part with it hahaha.


----------



## Danneq

townyj said:


> Kinda wish i could hear the TM7 now , really... i am considering my direction now! You know... if you ever wanted to part with it hahaha.


 



 To quote the National Rifle Association in the USA: "I'll give you my TM7 when you pry it from my cold, dead hands."   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 But hopefully Blox will release their new flagship this year (I have repeated this sentence every year since 2013...).


----------



## Danneq

And the Diomnes have been sent out! Hopefully they will arrive late next week (since it's EMS). Otherwise on the 30th or 31st...


----------



## Townyj

danneq said:


> To quote the National Rifle Association in the USA: "I'll give you my TM7 when you pry it from my cold, dead hands."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Lol fair call fair call.
  
 Suppose we will have to wait n see if a new Flagship bud will arrive, definitely be hitting that buy button if they do.
  


danneq said:


> And the Diomnes have been sent out! Hopefully they will arrive late next week (since it's EMS). Otherwise on the 30th or 31st...


 
  
 Yeah i spoke with him just now... Didnt check my emails for the past day and he was asking for my correct Address. Dammit.


----------



## golov17

Who used BT? 
2017 New NiceHCK HB1 Wireless Bluetooth 4.1 Earphone Upgrade Cable MMCX Cable Support Apt-X Aptx Use For SE846 LZ A4 Shanling M1
 http://s.aliexpress.com/iqaQvyeu


----------



## Saoshyant

It's a shame I have yet to see a 2 pin BT cable.


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> It's a shame I have yet to see a 2 pin BT cable.


 why not mmcx?


----------



## Saoshyant

I have nicer 2 pin earbuds


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> I have nicer 2 pin earbuds


Ohh, i see


----------



## aoitenshi6509

Hi,
I just talked with one of Raid earbud team, they will produce RAID V1 again at the beginning of February and this time for overseas market.
I will be helping RAID team in promoting their earbud in here (and help them with english communication).

I think they will not make a lot of RAID earbuds, since only a few guys doing the soldering and testing the earbuds.

They have some line ups for RAID series coming for the future, just wait for my next update


----------



## golov17

Officially: Yinman500 some of the best for me. 100 h burns. Highly recommended. Donut foams


----------



## Fabi

golov17 said:


> Officially: Yinman500 some of the best for me. 100 h burns. Highly recommended. Donut foams


 
 How is Yinman's sound, please? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Cold, warm...?


----------



## golov17

fabi said:


> How is Yinman's sound, please? :confused_face_2:  Cold, warm...?


Very musicality, like old tube amp with paper cone speakers..


----------



## irgunawan

golov17 said:


> Very musicality, like old tube amp with paper cone speakers..


 
 hmm, old tube amp with paper cone speakers and a pole dancer?


----------



## golov17

irgunawan said:


> hmm, old tube amp with paper cone speakers and a pole dancer?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

BTW, I saw that these have been posted before on here:  *Vrme Sports Headphones With Microphone*.
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Vrme-Cell-Phone-Earphone-Sport-Earphone-Ear-buds-Stereo-Music-Headset-With-HD-Microphone-For-iPhone/32674311412.html
  
 Pros:  Decent Build, Fastest Shipping EVER from AliExpress (8 Days!).

 Cons:  Awful sound, just don't buy.  Worst Muddy Sound.
  
 --


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> BTW, I saw that these have been posted before on here:  *Vrme Sports Headphones With Microphone*.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Vrme-Cell-Phone-Earphone-Sport-Earphone-Ear-buds-Stereo-Music-Headset-With-HD-Microphone-For-iPhone/32674311412.html
> 
> ...


so sad


----------



## tinkertailor

bloodypenguin said:


> BTW, I saw that these have been posted before on here:  *Vrme Sports Headphones With Microphone*.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Vrme-Cell-Phone-Earphone-Sport-Earphone-Ear-buds-Stereo-Music-Headset-With-HD-Microphone-For-iPhone/32674311412.html
> 
> ...


 
 too late   .... but I also have those Yinman 64 ohm coming in too, also 808+ 
  
  
 well the ones i ordered are similar looking, the same even, but different model number https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HONGBIAO-SM-M9-In-ear-Earphones-Original-3-5mm-Super-Clear-Bass-Metal-fone-de-ouvido/32782771890.html


----------



## BloodyPenguin

tinkertailor said:


> too late   .... but I also have those Yinman 64 ohm coming in too, also 808+
> 
> 
> well the ones i ordered are similar looking, the same even, but different model number https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HONGBIAO-SM-M9-In-ear-Earphones-Original-3-5mm-Super-Clear-Bass-Metal-fone-de-ouvido/32782771890.html


 
  
 They are the exact same ones....  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 While not the Worst earbuds I have ever tried.. they are still pretty bad.  Though they do as advertised;  Booming Bass, but little else.


----------



## tinkertailor

bloodypenguin said:


> They are the exact same ones....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 They said bass, and they were next to free, and looked like edifiers so I thought id get em....
  
 on anther note, anyone want to trade an unused BK stardust for a rare pair of HONGBIAO SM M9 's? lol


----------



## Fabi

golov17 said:


> Very musicality, like old tube amp with paper cone speakers..


 
 Then Yinman 500 or Blox 320?


----------



## Spider fan

Someone is selling a Zen 2.0 + Monk Plus on ebay for $100.  I have no affiliation with or knowledge about the seller.  Just aheads up since I've seen a few people mention lately they are looking for one.


----------



## macky112

willber said:


> Here you are:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-MDR-E808-Bass-Noise-Isolating-Earphone-3-5MM-High-Qaulity-Flat-Head-Earbuds-In-Ear/32742308384.html


 
 I just received my Sony E808+ from this link, and have a question:
 is left ear piece's cable shorter than the right earpiece?  and the earpiece cables come out different ends of that splitter


----------



## Spider fan

macky112 said:


> I just received my Sony E808+ from this link, and have a question:
> is left ear piece's cable shorter than the right earpiece?  and the earpiece cables come out different ends of that splitter


 
 J-cord the longer one is suppose to wrap around the back of your neck.


----------



## macky112

spider fan said:


> J-cord the longer one is suppose to wrap around the back of your neck.


 
 cool thanks for the reply, just want to make sure I received the correct earbuds (I was not able to clearly tell from the on-line pix i found on this earbud to be sure)


----------



## Spider fan

macky112 said:


> cool thanks for the reply, just want to make sure I received the correct earbuds (I was not able to clearly tell from the on-line pix i found on this earbud to be sure)


 
 Sony seems to like j-cords that picture is an ad for the popular sony mh1.  It the only j-cord I've ever had.  I am not a fan of the cable myself. 
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Original-MDR-E808-Bass-Noise-Isolating-Earphone-3-5MM-High-Qaulity-Flat-Head-Earbuds-In-Ear/1909638_32742308384.html?aff_platform=aaf&cpt=1484943237429&sk=VnYZvQVf&aff_trace_key=30fbbab822f34b88a83d94cfc2828b0b-1484943237429-09313-VnYZvQVf
  
 This one shows a picture of the 808+ with the j-cord.  You can see it clearly in picture 3.


----------



## vapman

Wow i didnt expect the China Mail train to make it from Chi to Boston so quick!

 Now it's burn time and I'll see y'all back in a little while...



 Look forward to hearing impressions from my man @BloodyPenguin  who has had them for a day now...!


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

vapman said:


> Wow i didnt expect the China Mail train to make it from Chi to Boston so quick!
> 
> Now it's burn time and I'll see y'all back in a little while...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Quick impression on Puresounds PS100-600 ohm ?


----------



## vapman

midnightempest said:


> Quick impression on Puresounds PS100-600 ohm ?


----------



## springbay

vapman said:


> Argh, you're tempting me to order one! How are the mids post burn in, and hopefully (for me) do you mean bass depth?
> 
> Also, does it have a thin junky cable that isn't as good looking as the Monk cable like old blox? I kind of expect any Blox needs a recable but it'd be nice if the cables weren't quite as cheap as they used to be.


 
  
 I should not give a final verdict yet. I feel the signature is still adjusting. This is a weird feeling for me. I hardly ever notice a burn in factor on other gear. But in this case it is significant.
 Only from yesterday I sense a big improvement in the micro detail, and right now I get a feeling that I listen to the music in a cathedral with thick stone walls. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 With depth I mean 3D sound stage. I'm still using VE thin foams and running them on high gain at 10 o'clock on the FiiO X3ii/K5 combo from my HTPC. I also used them on the XDuoo X3 at -27 level and that was pleasant as well.
  
 The bass is not overly impactful, but quite precise and distinct. I guess I will get a much more bassy signature if I change to donuts. I will try with the included full foams again when I decide the burn in is done. I did not like the included foams out of the box, but perhaps they will best in the end...
 In some weird way I get a feeling the percussion vibrate inside of the buds, not in a disturbing way. Rather that percussion instruments sound very much engaging and present without stealing the show.
  
 The cable quality is not top notch, but not bad. Somewhere in the region of Boarseman MX98s and MusicMaker Ting. Only problem is the slight microphonics.
  
 This Blox experience is the most exiting path I've taken since I started buying buds.


----------



## vapman

springbay said:


> I should not give a final verdict yet. I feel the signature is still adjusting. This is a weird feeling for me. I hardly ever notice a burn in factor on other gear. But in this case it is significant.
> Only from yesterday I sense a big improvement in the micro detail, and right now I get a feeling that I listen to the music in a cathedral with thick stone walls.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Does the bass have good depth to it? Compared to other buds you have with good reach.
  
 I feel maybe I should have bought the Blox instead of the Ucotech but of course I need to wait for the Ucotech to get here before i make any claims 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But it seems my DIY 16mm bud and Puresound have me set on nice forward mids. I'll have to budget for a B320 too it seems...
  
 BTW if you don't mind, could you post a quick camera phone pic of B320? I wanna see how cable looks in real life...


----------



## ProLoL

I own the MX985 and wouldn't change them for anything! Prefered them over my Audio Technica AD2000X. Enjoying these as much as my Stax srs3100.


----------



## vapman

prolol said:


> I own the MX985 and wouldn't change them for anything! Prefered them over my Audio Technica AD2000X. Enjoying these as much as my Stax srs3100.


 
 There's a few that improve on mx985  sound IMO... i got rid of mine after long a/b sessions with mx985 and red demun


----------



## ProLoL

vapman said:


> There's a few that improve on mx985  sound IMO... i got rid of mine after long a/b sessions with mx985 and red demun


 
 So what's the best earpad available in your opinion? my MX985 sounds great but the sound leakage is awful and I don't like the fact that people listen to my music on the bus lol


----------



## vapman

prolol said:


> So what's the best earpad available in your opinion? my MX985 sounds great but the sound leakage is awful and I don't like the fact that people listen to my music on the bus lol


 
 Hiegi donut for MX985. Once you hear that, no other foam sounds good on mx985.


----------



## springbay

vapman said:


> Does the bass have good depth to it? Compared to other buds you have with good reach.
> 
> I feel maybe I should have bought the Blox instead of the Ucotech but of course I need to wait for the Ucotech to get here before i make any claims
> 
> ...


 
  
 Like I said, I should wait with posting final impressions till the sound sig has settled. At the moment they can't compete with the bass of the K's 500. But then none of my other buds can.
  
 Here is a quick and dirty comparison picture

  
 And a bonus pic of the cute parcel.


----------



## vapman

springbay said:


> Like I said, I should wait with posting final impressions till the sound sig has settled. At the moment they can't compete with the bass of the K's 500. But then none of my other buds can.
> 
> Here is a quick and dirty comparison picture
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for those pics my man. Argh, I don't know if I'll be able to resist the call of the B320. And I have a Ucotech on the way and listening to the PureSounds 600 ohm currently.


----------



## ProLoL

Oh lol that's great to hear, just ordered those thanks to you although my question was suppose to be "what's the best earbuds available" I'm looking for the most hi-end ear bud available to pare to my questyle qp1r.


----------



## mochill

prolol said:


> Oh lol that's great to hear, just ordered those thanks to you although my question was suppose to be "what's the best earbuds available" I'm looking for the most hi-end ear bud available to pare to my questyle qp1r.


wait for VE nirvana


----------



## 1TrickPony

mochill said:


> wait for VE nirvana




These aren't Zen 2.0 blacks?


----------



## Danneq

prolol said:


> Oh lol that's great to hear, just ordered those thanks to you although my question was suppose to be "what's the best earbuds available" I'm looking for the most hi-end ear bud available to pare to my questyle qp1r.




Right now it would be VE Zen 2 black edition. But you might need an amp since it's 320 ohm.

You can also check out Cypherus. CAX black edition is the top end earbud but not made any more. If Cypherus comes across the parts needed more might be made but there is a waiting list.
I've just sold my MX985 but still have my OMX980 (they sound the same) and while I really like the sound of the Sennheisers, CAX black is on another level than any earbud I have heard. I have heard pretty much all TOTL earbuds except for Zen black.

You could also check out Cypherus CampFred. It's no 2 on my top list after CAX black. Very mature sound for a pair of earbuds. They are neutral in the same way as MX985 but with better sub bass and a more laid back type of sound. Despite being more laid back sounding CampFred is very technically capable and will surprise you with it's detail and instrument layering.

In the future, hopefully this year, VE might release Nirvana and Blox might release their new flagship earbud. Blox have yet to release an earbud that does not sound great so you should keep your eyes open for news on the new Blox flagship. Cypherus might also release a new flagship to replace CAX black...


----------



## luedriver

springbay said:


> Like I said, I should wait with posting final impressions till the sound sig has settled. At the moment they can't compete with the bass of the K's 500. But then none of my other buds can.
> 
> Here is a quick and dirty comparison picture
> 
> ...


 
 1st time I saw a full picture of the b320's, (even though I bought them a week ago)
  
 the parcel reminded me when I bought the xiaomi piston 2 from penon's ebay


----------



## Saoshyant

My Piston 2 didn't get packed nearly that nicely, either version.


----------



## ProLoL

Thanks mate! will keep eye on those.


----------



## Townyj

Might need to pick up a pair of B160 now... Hmmmm that damn blox sound has haunted me now.


----------



## PureSounds-cn

midnightempest said:


> Quick impression on Puresounds PS100-600 ohm ?


 It might not be drug but water,I think PS100-600 is monitor-style earbuds


----------



## Danneq

prolol said:


> Thanks mate! will keep eye on those.




You can buy Zen black on Aliexpress or veclan.com.

In the Cypherus thread here on Head fi you can get in touch with Herry of Cypherus. Here's a post from a guy who has got the same DAP as you and who owns both Zen black and CAX black: http://www.head-fi.org/t/826036/cypherus-audio-products-discussion-thread-campfred-earbuds-qfred-earbuds-and-cax-golden-reference/330#post_13183994


----------



## Saoshyant

At this point, I'm actually kind of impressed I'm still waiting on an 11.11 order to arrive.  I'm kind of wondering just how much longer it'll take to arrive.  Also, I think my next two E808+ should arrive today, so I'll finally get to see if my EQ issue was isolated to the first one, or if it's all of them.  I know @vapman would EQ the hell out of them and didn't have any problems, so I have assumed it was just mine.


----------



## purplesun

saoshyant said:


> At this point, I'm actually kind of impressed I'm still waiting on an 11.11 order to arrive.  I'm kind of wondering just how much longer it'll take to arrive.  Also, I think my next two E808+ should arrive today, so I'll finally get to see if my EQ issue was isolated to the first one, or if it's all of them.  I know @vapman would EQ the hell out of them and didn't have any problems, so I have assumed it was just mine.


 

 Don't over-drive them for the first day or so. I have a suspicion that's how I ruined one of my E808+. It sounded OK on the first hour of burn-in but became very harsh sounding later, and never settled into their typical sound signature, no matter the amount of burn-in. I have since set the burn-in volume to a more moderate level and have done more than half dozen of them with no problem. It's no clear proof of my suspicion, but better safe than sorry.


----------



## Saoshyant

@purplesun I usually do my burning at around listening volume, but never higher than I'd listen to.  My current E808+ actually sounds quite good, but it cannot handle any sort of bass EQ as something starts to sound loose, so I eventually ordered two more.  I've been using it for gaming and tv/movie watching on my PC via Mojo and really do like the sound, and honestly it might be my favorite budget earbud even considering the flaw.  If the others can handle some EQ, and no I don't push anywhere as much as Vapman does, I will be quite pleased.  Either way, I look forward to comparing two E808+ together.


----------



## golov17

Also one good cheap bass-buds. Recommended  http://s.aliexpress.com/BFfY7Bva





Pic from FB


----------



## flamesofarctica

golov17 said:


> Also one good cheap bass-buds. Recommended  http://s.aliexpress.com/BFfY7Bva
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Cheap enough to take a chance on, never mind with a recommendation from Mr Golov17...Ordered!


----------



## weedophile

notamethlab said:


> I just finished recabling a pair of e808+ and I must say I can hear an improvement. Between my regular pair and the recabled one the recabled sound s more controlled and the highs have been tamed. Also the y-cable is MUCH better than the j-cable.







vapman said:


> Lookin good bro. I need to get off my butt and recable one of my sets.




Damn, i wanted to recable to a Y shaped cable but want to retain the crazy trebles (enjoying it)

Anyone have any idea on any cables that is good for this project?


----------



## ProLoL

danneq said:


> You can buy Zen black on Aliexpress or veclan.com.
> 
> In the Cypherus thread here on Head fi you can get in touch with Herry of Cypherus. Here's a post from a guy who has got the same DAP as you and who owns both Zen black and CAX black: http://www.head-fi.org/t/826036/cypherus-audio-products-discussion-thread-campfred-earbuds-qfred-earbuds-and-cax-golden-reference/330#post_13183994


 
 I'm always towards buying the best of the best. I've sent mr Cypherus an email, hopefully he'll reply. If he could make the CAX Golden Reference I'd buy, would also be happy with the black edition.


----------



## golov17

flamesofarctica said:


> Cheap enough to take a chance on, never mind with a recommendation from Mr Golov17...Ordered!


good


----------



## Saoshyant

@golov17 Any characterization of sound?  Or should I just order it and find out as it arrives as surprises can be pleasant.


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> @golov17
> Any characterization of sound?  Or should I just order it and find out as it arrives as surprises can be pleasant.


like a baby's kc08t, very good for vocal trance music, bass sub, highs crisp


----------



## purplesun

weedophile said:


> Damn, i wanted to recable to a Y shaped cable but want to retain the crazy trebles (enjoying it)
> Anyone have any idea on any cables that is good for this project?


 
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-2m-Gold-plated-Line-type-3-5mm-3-pole-Jack-LC-OFC-DIY-Headphone-Audio/32764439785.html
  
 If you're a basshead, you should like the meatier bass on E808+ with this cable. Highs might be a touch stronger. And midrange gets a bit more recessed.
  
 Caveat: Being a non-basshead, this bass volume is too much for me. But the bass is quite accurate on most songs that I've tried on, even on EDMs (briefly).
  
 EDIT:
 After more burn-in of the drivers, the bass & treble has settled down; permitting the mids to be more forward. It's a nice balanced FR now, with a slightly thicker/darker sound than stock.


----------



## weedophile

purplesun said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-2m-Gold-plated-Line-type-3-5mm-3-pole-Jack-LC-OFC-DIY-Headphone-Audio/32764439785.html
> 
> If you're a basshead, you should like the meatier bass on E808+ with this cable. Highs might be a touch stronger. And midrange gets a bit more recessed.
> 
> Caveat: Being a non-basshead, this bass volume is too much for me. But the bass is quite accurate on most songs that I've tried on, even on EDMs (briefly).


 

 Nice, i got them ordered 2 weeks ago and there are on the way. But my sound preference actually leans on the brighter side. I like the sound of the stock cables just that the J-cables are a pain.
  
 Thanks for the suggestion anyway!


----------



## headjelly

purplesun said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-2m-Gold-plated-Line-type-3-5mm-3-pole-Jack-LC-OFC-DIY-Headphone-Audio/32764439785.html
> 
> If you're a basshead, you should like the meatier bass on E808+ with this cable. Highs might be a touch stronger. And midrange gets a bit more recessed.
> 
> Caveat: Being a non-basshead, this bass volume is too much for me. But the bass is quite accurate on most songs that I've tried on, even on EDMs (briefly).


 
  
 How soft is it? I made a mistake and ordered a bunch of cables and every one of them except one turned out to be too stiff for me.


----------



## notamethlab

weedophile said:


> Damn, i wanted to recable to a Y shaped cable but want to retain the crazy trebles (enjoying it)
> 
> Anyone have any idea on any cables that is good for this project?



I think using a silver cable will retain the treble, I believe that's what vapman used to recable his pair.


----------



## notamethlab

golov17 said:


> good




Nice!  I'm still waiting for my pairs, and also the RY04 do you have that one as well?
http://s.aliexpress.com/MvUjuuqm 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## vapman

notamethlab said:


> I think using a silver cable will retain the treble, I believe that's what vapman used to recable his pair.




Yeah but keep in mind if you use pure silver it takes away a lot of the bass weight. I am giving my silver cable to a friend since i keep taking it off drivers to replace with pure copper ...


----------



## Townyj

Sooooo ive been in contact with Mr Woo... Wrote to him asking about any future earbuds and received the msg below. 
  
  
Dear Joel,
glad to hear you enjoy the B320.
we are developing low impedance earbuds and we should be able to release 1
low impedance earbuds this year,this low impedance earbuds do not share
any part from B320,we want these low impedance to be our flagship however
next low impedance to be released might not be our flagship or might be,it
is too soon to say now,but I can tell you that we use the best parts and
materials also the best craftsmanship for these low impedance drivers.
so it will sound very good and be better than the TM.7
BR,
Woo
  
  
Pretty sure its time to save some pennies  may hold out on my next purchases and see where this ends up. Fingers crossed its a new flagship.


----------



## vapman

townyj said:


> Sooooo ive been in contact with Mr Woo... Wrote to him asking about any future earbuds and received the msg below.
> 
> 
> Dear Joel,
> ...


 
 Good to hear, what do you compare the B320 to? still tempted to get it although i don't need it...


----------



## Townyj

vapman said:


> Good to hear, what do you compare the B320 to? still tempted to get it although i don't need it...


 
  
 I mentioned a few posts ago that i highly prefer it over the sound of my old Red Demun and Edimun V3, only going off memory. The sound is no where near as warm, bass pops up when needed, the sound just has this surreal feel to it which draws you in. It really is nothing like i have heard before. The B320 loves a bit of juice, opened up alot when plugged them into my A5.


----------



## vapman

townyj said:


> I mentioned a few posts ago that i highly prefer it over the sound of my old Red Demun and Edimun V3, only going off memory. The sound is no where near as warm, bass pops up when needed, the sound just has this surreal feel to it which draws you in. It really is nothing like i have heard before. The B320 loves a bit of juice, opened up alot when plugged them into my A5.


 
 Thanks, my follow up q was gonna be "what do you have that is similar to it"? but it sounds like the answer is not much?


----------



## tinkertailor

golov17 said:


> like a baby's kc08t, very good for vocal trance music, bass sub, highs crisp


 
 Golov, have you tried K's Earphone 64 ohm, qian39 or monk plus? If so, how's it compare to those?


----------



## Townyj

vapman said:


> Thanks, my follow up q was gonna be "what do you have that is similar to it"? but it sounds like the answer is not much?


 
  
 Well it is fairly neutral sounding, throws a large holographic stage and you can hear instruments clearly etc. More of a detail orientated sound with some extra low end kick, i wouldnt put it on the same level as the Demun and Edimun for bass heavy tracks. It is more towards the Demun sound than Edimun in a sense. If i was to say something similar it would be my TP16, just more hyper detailed.


----------



## SuperMAG

notamethlab said:


> Nice!  I'm still waiting for my pairs, and also the RY04 do you have that one as well?
> http://s.aliexpress.com/MvUjuuqm
> (from AliExpress Android)





please share ur impressions once u receave that. So many hypee comments and more then 1000 buyera in aliexpress.


----------



## vapman

townyj said:


> Well it is fairly neutral sounding, throws a large holographic stage and you can hear instruments clearly etc. More of a detail orientated sound with some extra low end kick, i wouldnt put it on the same level as the Demun and Edimun for bass heavy tracks. It is more towards the Demun sound than Edimun in a sense. If i was to say something similar it would be my TP16, just more hyper detailed.


 
 Hmm, you haven't heard the ty 650, have you? I know very well you are a big TP16 fan but i never heard it.


----------



## Townyj

vapman said:


> Hmm, you haven't heard the ty 650, have you? I know very well you are a big TP16 fan but i never heard it.


 
  
 Havent heard any of the TY buds, never really took my attention after reading peoples views on them. I know i sprout often about the TP16  just fit my sig taste.


----------



## weedophile

Thanks @notamethlab  shall try out other lesser favoured earbuds before messing ard with the Sony


----------



## purplesun

Quote:


headjelly said:


> How soft is it? I made a mistake and ordered a bunch of cables and every one of them except one turned out to be too stiff for me.


 
 Stiffer than stock. But I can roll it up into about 3 inch diameter roll and leave it on the table, without it unrolling itself.


----------



## mochill

townyj said:


> Sooooo ive been in contact with Mr Woo... Wrote to him asking about any future earbuds and received the msg below.
> 
> 
> Dear Joel,
> ...


 

 time to save up


----------



## Sp12er3

Is there any good upgrade from Tomahawk but with an added convenience of a mic? If not, what are the alternative, like earbud with detachable cables? No mojito please, i don't plan on investing too much into earbuds.


----------



## vapman

sp12er3 said:


> Is there any good upgrade from Tomahawk but with an added convenience of a mic? If not, what are the alternative, like earbud with detachable cables? No mojito please, i don't plan on investing too much into earbuds.


 
 Consider **** PT15 if you like Tomahawk for its treble


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

> Originally Posted by *Sp12er3* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> No mojito please, i don't plan on investing too much into earbuds.


 
 I think you're on the right path into not spending a lot of money on headphones. I'm reaching $250.00 soon with 20 pairs of headphones bought (to be used on a Benjie S5/Walnut v2). I probably shouldn't have bought them. My JVC Flats are probably good enough. The only good thing to come out of buying so many headphones is now I'm a legitimate member of HeadFi and can help others with their future purchases.


----------



## Lakers1

Wow that's a lot of phones I've never heard of.


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> Consider **** PT15 if you like Tomahawk for its treble




No way near!!!

I really like Tomahawk and do not mind the treble. I could not listen more than 2 minutes to PT15. 

I noticed one thing. The treble on Tomahawk actually reminds me a bit of the one on Dunu Alpha 1. There are some aspects of the treble on Tomahawk that almost sound like that of BA drivers. I remember you don't like the sund of BA iems. I think Ting also has got a little bit of that "BA sound" but not in the same degree as Tomahawk.

Anyway, that is my experience and when using normal full foams.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

lakers1 said:


> Wow that's a lot of phones I've never heard of.


 
 I'll post them in my profile after I get them in the mail. I bought them all off reviews on Headfi, so you're heard of them all. I just happened to buy them all at once.


----------



## springbay

vapman said:


> Hmm, you haven't heard the ty 650, have you? I know very well you are a big TP16 fan but i never heard it.


 
 I agree with Townyj that the TP16 is the closest I've heard sounding like the B320. There is a big difference though, I didn't like the artificial sound of the TP16 at all...
 Why I say they are kind of similar would be that they both have that hallucinogenic airiness in the signature.
  
 If I should describe the signature with a song it would be LADIES' CODE - My Flower

  
 I put on some donuts on the B320 and compared with the HP650. They don't even slightly share the same signature.
 I never EQ, but I tried a heavy bass EQ on the B320 and they sounded like absolute crap.
 Turned of the EQ and changed back to VE thin foams on the B320 and that absolute bliss returned again.
  
 To be honest. If you're gonna hunt that extreme bass boost with the B320, I think you will waste your money.
 For me the B320 are quickly pushing away the Seahf LD-3.0 320 from the position as my casual music listening and telly watching bud.
  
 I wont use them with my iphone though. They need a decent amp or dap to bloom.


----------



## DBaldock9

sp12er3 said:


> Is there any good upgrade from Tomahawk but with an added convenience of a mic? If not, what are the alternative, like earbud with detachable cables? No mojito please, i don't plan on investing too much into earbuds.


 
 The **** PT15 earbuds are nice, with a surprising amount of Bass, and a really big sound-stage presentation.
 .
 I've also got some Daik DK-Song earbuds (16Ω, 108dB/mW, Wood housing, 1x Dynamic, MMCX cable [$46.95]) on order.
 They should be arriving soon.
 If I'm using them with my phone, they'll be connected to one of these cables (has a switch to allow control of either iPhones or Androids) - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/With-Mic-Remote-Volume-Earphone-DIY-Cable-For-Shure-se215-se315-se425-se535-Se846-LN004900/32702459857.html 
  
 Take Care,
 David Baldock


----------



## slim311

laughmoredaily said:


> I just happened to buy them all at once.




Don't feel bad. On 11.11 the only earbuds I owned were Monk and Monk+. Now I'm up to 20+ pairs, with 8 more on the way. Earbuds are like pringles. Once you pop, you can't stop. Chasing the dragon! :etysmile:


----------



## golov17

notamethlab said:


> Nice!  I'm still waiting for my pairs, and also the RY04 do you have that one as well?
> http://s.aliexpress.com/MvUjuuqm
> (from AliExpress Android)


RY04 not very good, bass anemia


----------



## triplew

I have Monk+ and amazed by earbud quality nowadays.
Understood different ppl would have different preference hence earbud A may be good for one person while not so for another person.
Based on some reviews I went through, am I safe to say VE Zen 2.0 is one of the best earbud consent by most ppl?
If not, may I ask which few models is most discussed and have positive feedback? Thanks


----------



## slim311

here's another installment of "Treasures from Taobao"

Sony-branded MX500 shell; inline mic with volume control and separate headphone/mic plugs for use with a laptop/desktop $2

KAPH Z180 $4

Yincrow X6 $9

Spirit Master 32ohm $5, 64ohm $10, 150ohm $10-$15, 300ohm $29-$38

DIY buds with braided cable and Fiio-style shells $12

DIY PK1 150ohm $11

DIY PK1 150ohm multiple cable options $39-$92


----------



## golov17

slim311 said:


> here's another installment of "Treasures from Taobao"
> 
> Sony-branded MX500 shell; inline mic with volume control and separate headphone/mic plugs for use with a laptop/desktop $2
> 
> ...


 more earbuds on Taobao (for hunters)


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> Good to hear, what do you compare the B320 to? still tempted to get it although i don't need it...



Really need to save up some money for this


And by the way, recently i got my eyes on some budget earbud (i just need to stop spent my money on expensive one).
So i bought back some budget earbud that i've ever had before.
And then I found one of them sounds so amazing, Suvov S20.
Now i'm interesting on it and want to collect all its line up, especially S10 and S700. But sadly i can't find it anywhere.
So, maybe anyone here can help me and tell me where i could find any store that sell it?

Thanks and I really appreciate your help


----------



## vapman

joy boy said:


> Really need to save up some money for this
> 
> 
> And by the way, recently i got my eyes on some budget earbud (i just need to stop spent my money on expensive one).
> ...


 
 Where did you find the S20?


----------



## golov17

joy boy said:


> Really need to save up some money for this
> 
> 
> And by the way, recently i got my eyes on some budget earbud (i just need to stop spent my money on expensive one).
> ...


Unfortunately, all Suvov sold out, man


----------



## notamethlab

golov17 said:


> RY04 not very good, bass anemia


 
 Ah what a shame, they look very nice aesthetically and also have tons of good reviews on AE.


----------



## notamethlab

Does anyone have a link to buy YUIN styled shells for DIY earbuds?


----------



## purplesun

notamethlab said:


> Does anyone have a link to buy YUIN styled shells for DIY earbuds?


 
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-headset-accessories-14-8MM-headphones-shell-Double-the-sound-hole-Cotton-has-been-posted/2046553820.html


----------



## weedophile

Hi guys i am comparing the 2 replacement cables that i have received and noticed that one isnt TRS and it was shorter. Can i check what did i get for the one on the right side?


----------



## vapman

weedophile said:


> Hi guys i am comparing the 2 replacement cables that i have received and noticed that one isnt TRS and it was shorter. Can i check what did i get for the one on the right side?


 
 That's very weird. Looks more like a deformed TRS connector. Even a mono TS cable doesn't look like that. It looks like the left one without the top black ring


----------



## gobin

Can someone guide my through the process of ordering earbuds on taobao?
 Is it because of the high shipping cost or some additional fees that make it less preferable when comparing to Aliexpress?


----------



## weedophile

@vapman
 Yea vap bro, i was talking casually with my family and asked my dad for his solder and noticed the difference (luckily as i didnt look as it previously).
  
 Guess i have to contact the seller and wait for his reply probably after the Chinese New Year


----------



## vapman

weedophile said:


> @vapman
> Yea vap bro, i was talking casually with my family and asked my dad for his solder and noticed the difference (luckily as i didnt look as it previously).
> 
> Guess i have to contact the seller and wait for his reply probably after the Chinese New Year


 
 If you got wire strippers go drop $3 on a nice Neutrik plug on ebay and solder that bad boy on. Bet it would sound even better than the predone one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


gobin said:


> Can someone guide my through the process of ordering earbuds on taobao?
> Is it because of the high shipping cost or some additional fees that make it less preferable when comparing to Aliexpress?


 
 Unless you can speak chinese you should use a forwarding service.


----------



## weedophile

gobin said:


> Can someone guide my through the process of ordering earbuds on taobao?
> Is it because of the high shipping cost or some additional fees that make it less preferable when comparing to Aliexpress?


 
  
 Coz its in Chinese! And certain items are considered sensitive (earphones are) and the shipping cost is pretty expensive, can be up to the cost of a budget earbud or IEM. IDK how AE manages to bypass the check but the language is a huge plus to users.
  
 I am asian and understand chinese but its still a pain to use Taobao without using a middle agent.


----------



## weedophile

vapman said:


> If you got wire strippers go drop $3 on a nice Neutrik plug on ebay and solder that bad boy on. Bet it would sound even better than the predone one


 
  
 Thanks vap bro! Pretty new to DIY so i dont have one yet. Gonna check it out in store since its close to holiday period in Asia and i have like 4 days off work wooooooooooooooo


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> Where did you find the S20?



I got it from my friend. He said last stock that he has



golov17 said:


> Unfortunately, all Suvov sold out, man



Fyuhh..i'm not lucky enough to get all the series. Because it's really an amazing one for a less than $10 earbud


*But i have the news, here is the pict of blue demun. Special bud from demun with F1 demun cable. Looks nice


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Trying some options for my PureSound Photo Shoot.  Not sure which direction I will pick.
  
 Here are a few practice shots:


  

  
 --


----------



## Saoshyant

If you're asking opinions, I prefer the upper picture.  The added color creates more of a sense of beauty where to me the lower picture has a clinical feel to it with the empty space and mainly black/white coloration.


----------



## vapman

weedophile said:


> Thanks vap bro! Pretty new to DIY so i dont have one yet. Gonna check it out in store since its close to holiday period in Asia and i have like 4 days off work wooooooooooooooo


 
 If you dont have a soldering station pm me and i can send some cheap (sub $30) recs your way. I saw my dad trying to solder with a _butane torch_ before xmas and was like "nahhh" so i bought him a whole cheapo setup.
  
  


bloodypenguin said:


> Trying some options for my PureSound Photo Shoot.  Not sure which direction I will pick.
> 
> Here are a few practice shots:
> 
> --


 
 Even your worst shots are gonna be 1000x nicer than my potato camera phone pics....


joy boy said:


> I got it from my friend. He said last stock that he has
> Fyuhh..i'm not lucky enough to get all the series. Because it's really an amazing one for a less than $10 earbud
> 
> 
> *But i have the news, here is the pict of blue demun. Special bud from demun with F1 demun cable. Looks nice


 
 Dang it dude, i have tried to buy blue demun like 3x but every time i ask I get no response 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 oh well, i wouldn't have got started on DIY myself if so.


----------



## headjelly

springbay said:


> To be honest. If you're gonna hunt that extreme bass boost with the B320, I think you will waste your money.
> For me the B320 are quickly pushing away the Seahf LD-3.0 320 from the position as my casual music listening and telly watching bud.
> 
> I wont use them with my iphone though. They need a decent amp or dap to bloom.


 
  
 I love how my B320 sound in an LG V10 without amping.


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> If you dont have a soldering station pm me and i can send some cheap (sub $30) recs your way. I saw my dad trying to solder with a _butane torch_ before xmas and was like "nahhh" so i bought him a whole cheapo setup.
> 
> 
> Even your worst shots are gonna be 1000x nicer than my potato camera phone pics....
> Dang it dude, i have tried to buy blue demun like 3x but every time i ask I get no response   oh well, i wouldn't have got started on DIY myself if so.



Already tried his personal facebook page? Today he posted about the blue demun. Maybe he's more active and easier contacted there


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Deleted.


----------



## weedophile

vapman

Appreciate that! But i'm from Singapore bro, if i'm not mistaken u are in the states? Probably getting from my local hardware store is faster lol


----------



## vapman

weedophile said:


> @vapman
> 
> Appreciate that! But i'm from Singapore bro, if i'm not mistaken u are in the states? Probably getting from my local hardware store is faster lol


 
 Yeah i am. Can't say for sure if you guys have the same brands...


----------



## Saoshyant

Any thoughts on https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Newest-Laoze-Earbud-HIFI-Earphone-High-Impendence-Headset-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbuds-Flat-Plug-Kill-VE/119089_32788773937.html?spm=2114.12010611.0.0.k601Bp
  
 I can't help but laugh that it's specifically calling VE out.  Cable looks fairly nice, 32 ohm, and uses a standard small plastic case.  Costs $68 for now.


----------



## weedophile

vapman said:


> Yeah i am. Can't say for sure if you guys have the same brands...




I saw its some Stanley brand with just the soldering iron. And yea its a pain here finding tools for DIY as we seldom do it here lmao


----------



## noxa

Anyone know anything about the K's 800 ? Only see them on Taobao and I can't read it.


----------



## Sp12er3

laughmoredaily said:


> lakers1 said:
> 
> 
> > Wow that's a lot of phones I've never heard of.
> ...



Wow, that's binge purchase if I ever saw one... For me, long research of build-comfort-sound impressions is a must, lastly, self demo for the sealing deal If I could get one. I can see that going a bit too far in would be easy when finding a new interesting category though. 
For the price limit, I just find my use case for it is mostly outdoor when I'm out and about for a short trip, where I can't have the quiet bubble my room provides, but still want an open headphone sound. In such case, a small sonic improvements won't really be easily perceptible thus making an expensive earbuds moot sadly... (esp ones with high Impedance counts here...) 



dbaldock9 said:


> sp12er3 said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



Thanks, I'll check out both of them, interested to hear what your on the Daik when you receive them .


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> Any thoughts on https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Newest-Laoze-Earbud-HIFI-Earphone-High-Impendence-Headset-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbuds-Flat-Plug-Kill-VE/119089_32788773937.html?spm=2114.12010611.0.0.k601Bp
> 
> I can't help but laugh that it's specifically calling VE out.  Cable looks fairly nice, 32 ohm, and uses a standard small plastic case.  Costs $68 for now.


they 16 Ohm, I already ordered 
http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.iE6yqj&id=540453172608&_u=g60i9erbf7e


----------



## springbay

headjelly said:


> I love how my B320 sound in an LG V10 without amping.


 
  
 I suppose the LG V10 have much better potential to drive the B320 than my iPhone 6s.
 It's not that they sound bad out of my phone. There is still headroom. It's just that they sound so much more engaging when properly amped.


----------



## Danneq

triplew said:


> I have Monk+ and amazed by earbud quality nowadays.
> Understood different ppl would have different preference hence earbud A may be good for one person while not so for another person.
> Based on some reviews I went through, am I safe to say VE Zen 2.0 is one of the best earbud consent by most ppl?
> If not, may I ask which few models is most discussed and have positive feedback? Thanks


 

 To my ears, Zen 2 has got a very warm and colored sound with rolled off highs. It's not bad but far from an allround earbud. I tihnk that Zen 1 was much more balanced sounding. For a high impedance earbud, I think that TY HiZ HP650 or K's 500 ohm would be better. Or perhaps the new Blox B320. The new Yinman seem to be popular as well. I have decided to only go with low impedance earbuds so people with more experience with the newer high impedance models can probably fill in.
 The Zen 2 version with cardas cable, Zen black, costs $358 but is supposed to be a lot better than Zen 2. So that's probably the best you can find right now.

 As for low impedance earbuds, there are some nice smaller makers/DIY/modders, especially in Indonesia. For example, if you buy Edimun V3 and Red De'mun from the two small Indonesian companies Bengkel Macro and De'mun, you will get two relatively cheap earbuds (around $65 each without shipping) that can compete with many $100+ earbuds.
 I especially like the buds from Cypherus Audio X. They are a bit more expensive (the allrounder CampFred for $150 and the midcentric QFred for $200 excluding shipping) but have a very unique sound in the earbud world. I have never heard such an analogue type of sound as from those.


----------



## Danneq

saoshyant said:


> Any thoughts on https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Newest-Laoze-Earbud-HIFI-Earphone-High-Impendence-Headset-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbuds-Flat-Plug-Kill-VE/119089_32788773937.html?spm=2114.12010611.0.0.k601Bp
> 
> I can't help but laugh that it's specifically calling VE out.  Cable looks fairly nice, 32 ohm, and uses a standard small plastic case.  Costs $68 for now.


 

 Doesn't the K's earbuds have "Monk killer" in the listing on Ali Express? At least it used to. VE seems to set the gold standard for Chinese earbud makers currently.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

saoshyant said:


> Any thoughts on https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Newest-Laoze-Earbud-HIFI-Earphone-High-Impendence-Headset-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbuds-Flat-Plug-Kill-VE/119089_32788773937.html
> 
> I can't help but laugh that it's specifically calling VE out.  Cable looks fairly nice, 32 ohm, and uses a standard small plastic case.  Costs $68 for now.


 

 Those look super cool.  I would be very curious how they sound...


----------



## JASru

golov17 said:


> they 16 Ohm, I already ordered
> http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.iE6yqj&id=540453172608&_u=g60i9erbf7e


 
 We will look forward to your impressions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 p/s/ I will be waiting to your Ihifi 780 impressions as well


----------



## golov17

Yinman500 very good with VE Runabout 9,6v


----------



## golov17

jasru said:


> We will look forward to your impressions
> 
> p/s/ I will be waiting to your Ihifi 780 impressions as well


 i will, but AE delivered too long


----------



## JASru

golov17 said:


> i will, but AE delivered too long


 
 Shopping on Ali makes you patient, or you stop shopping on Ali


----------



## golov17

jasru said:


> Shopping on Ali makes you patient, or you stop shopping on Ali


true


----------



## triplew

danneq said:


> To my ears, Zen 2 has got a very warm and colored sound with rolled off highs. It's not bad but far from an allround earbud. I tihnk that Zen 1 was much more balanced sounding. For a high impedance earbud, I think that TY HiZ HP650 or K's 500 ohm would be better. Or perhaps the new Blox B320. The new Yinman seem to be popular as well. I have decided to only go with low impedance earbuds so people with more experience with the newer high impedance models can probably fill in.
> 
> The Zen 2 version with cardas cable, Zen black, costs $358 but is supposed to be a lot better than Zen 2. So that's probably the best you can find right now.
> 
> ...




Thanks a lot for your advice! Appreciate!


----------



## kurtextrem

triplew said:


> I have Monk+ and amazed by earbud quality nowadays.
> Understood different ppl would have different preference hence earbud A may be good for one person while not so for another person.
> Based on some reviews I went through, am I safe to say VE Zen 2.0 is one of the best earbud consent by most ppl?
> If not, may I ask which few models is most discussed and have positive feedback? Thanks


 
 Take a look at the bottom of the first post in this thread - this gives you an initial idea. For my part, I'm currently in love with the Shozy Stardust and I don't regret buying it.


----------



## noxa

I want to order the Puresounds P100 600 or the K's 500, anyone got anythoughts of which way to go? Will get both eventually but which first?


----------



## Fabi

kurtextrem said:


> For my part, I'm currently in love with the Shozy Stardust and I don't regret buying it.


 
 I have tried them and then I have bought them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


noxa said:


> I want to order the Puresounds P100 600 or the K's 500, anyone got anythoughts of which way to go? Will get both eventually but which first?


 
 Wait a little more, there will be more reviews of PS100-600, nobody knows how they sound.


----------



## cocolinho

headjelly said:


> I love how my B320 sound in an LG V10 without amping.


 
 My V10 is a great pairing with TY H400s.


----------



## headjelly

cocolinho said:


> My V10 is a great pairing with TY H400s.


 
  
 BTW, has anybody tried TY H650 with LG V10? I read that they are easier to drive than 320 and 400, but has anybody heard these two together?


----------



## flamesofarctica

danneq said:


> Doesn't the K's earbuds have "Monk killer" in the listing on Ali Express? At least it used to. VE seems to set the gold standard for Chinese earbud makers currently.




The Yinman 64 as well says 'better than Monk'. Whether true or not it's a compliment in its own way and good advertising for VE that theyre the target to surpass.

At that price for this Laoze earbud, it would be the Asura they had to beat, at a minimum.

Will be interested to hear if they manage it hmm, I won't be getting it I'm swearing off metal earbuds, I never get a good fit due to the weight.

As an aside..
I tried IEMs for the first time in a few months yesterday whilst sorting through some gear. Wow, I really don't like them any more, either the feel or the closedness of the sound in comparison to earbuds. Think I'll be giving them away to friends/family.


----------



## rkw

flamesofarctica said:


> As an aside..
> I tried IEMs for the first time in a few months yesterday whilst sorting through some gear. Wow, I really don't like them any more, either the feel or the closedness of the sound in comparison to earbuds.


 
 I avoided IEMs for years because of comfort, but this month I couldn't pass up the 1More Triple Driver at Costco for $60. It is my first experience with a high quality IEM. I do like its clean accurate sound, but a tight seal in the ear canal is needed to bring out the bass, and it only reminded me that I don't like the feeling. I also came to realize that the listening experience I enjoy most from a stereo is a high quality speaker system. Earbuds and open back headphones come closest to creating an experience similar to speakers.


----------



## vapman

headjelly said:


> BTW, has anybody tried TY H650 with LG V10? I read that they are easier to drive than 320 and 400, but has anybody heard these two together?




V10 and ty 650 work together great. But it is too laid back and neutral for me. I really don't use ty 650 ever anymore. Should find a new home for it


----------



## luedriver

flamesofarctica said:


> As an aside..
> I tried IEMs for the first time in a few months yesterday whilst sorting through some gear. Wow, I really don't like them any more, either the feel or the closedness of the sound in comparison to earbuds. Think I'll be giving them away to friends/family.


 
 recently I also have been using my she3590's, 
 and found they are okay with some small triple flange ear tips, 
 they don't disappear like earbuds after a while,
 but for me, they are more comfortable than normal round ear tips,
  
 also am getting more used to the shape of the monoprice, but still a bit disappointed with the sound sig
  
 but I mostly use earbuds instead, I don't like using iems because I don't take them off when I don't listen to something on pc and I feel almost claustrophobic that I can't hear anything with them on


----------



## triplew

luedriver said:


> recently I also have been using my she3590's,
> and found they are okay with some small triple flange ear tips,
> they don't disappear like earbuds after a while,
> but for me, they are more comfortable than normal round ear tips,
> ...



Just trying to understand, do you also use earbuds when commute or out from house ?


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

noxa said:


> I want to order the Puresounds P100 600 or the K's 500, anyone got anythoughts of which way to go? Will get both eventually but which first?


 
  
 Eagerly waiting as well, Vapman & BloodyPenguin has the Puresounds  but its in the Burn-In process. so.. we're gonna have to wait sadly.


----------



## luedriver

triplew said:


> Just trying to understand, do you also use earbuds when commute or out from house ?


 
 yes, that is the main reason I wanted to buy some earbuds, since I only had a philips and earpods, that's how I found out about this thread,
  
 only now I have more than a few that I decided never to use outdoors, for risk of damage or sound sig in a noisy street, or even because the cable is too thick
  
 sennheiser mx170, ve monk + candy, seahf 32 ohm, auglamour rx-1, ty hi-z hp-32s, blox be3, ve monk (white letters), ty hi-z hp-650, shozy cygnus
  
 I haven't used iem on buses for a while


----------



## stalepie

deleted, sorry was not an "earbud" but an IEM


----------



## headjelly

vapman said:


> V10 and ty 650 work together great. But it is too laid back and neutral for me. I really don't use ty 650 ever anymore. Should find a new home for it


 
  
 Another post mentions that you have received the Puresounds 600. I know that it takes time to burn them in, but how do they currently compare with ty 650? I have ordered the Puresounds, but I have not received them yet.


----------



## vapman

headjelly said:


> Another post mentions that you have received the Puresounds 600. I know that it takes time to burn them in, but how do they currently compare with ty 650? I have ordered the Puresounds, but I have not received them yet.


 
 Ask me in like 3 days?
  
 Edit: I can already tell you the ty is a lot more laid back and neutral.


----------



## noxa

Is there a portable amp that people are generally using / recommending for use with the higher end earbuds?


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

noxa said:


> Is there a portable amp that people are generally using / recommending for use with the higher end earbuds?


 
  
 Curious as well, Any recommendation especially for those High Ohm Earbuds?


----------



## corbandalas

Hi guys. Have looked into ClieOS earbuds ranking list and wanted to try something from top stuff. My budget is around 110$, so the only candidates are Rose Masya and K's 500 Ohm. The first one has very interesting design(as for me), detached cable, low impedance, but low sensitivity too. The other one has very high impedance, but high sensitivity. So my question is which earbuds can you suggest, which pros/cons they have. I'm using Tidal on iPhone 6S and AK120 as a DAPs. Can they support enough power to get the best from the sound of these earbuds models? Thanks in advance


----------



## golov17

midnightempest said:


> Curious as well, Any recommendation especially for those High Ohm Earbuds?


a lot models.. VE Runabout, Aune, Cayin, Topping, Bluebird etc..


----------



## JASru

I can say that Fiio A5 is a good solution if you want stable quality and a warranty.
 It can be bought throught the world from distributors.
 Good working time and good  output power.

 I am currently not using it, but it drove K's 300 efforlessly on low gain - high volume.
 The playback time was 9-10 hours with complete charge.
  
 I am thinking of getting Auglar amp, but for now I am waiting for some feedback to appear.


----------



## Willber

luedriver said:


> recently I also have been using my she3590's,
> and found they are okay with some small triple flange ear tips,
> they don't disappear like earbuds after a while,
> but for me, they are more comfortable than normal round ear tips,
> ...


 
  
 Have you tried clip-ons? I have been using the KSC75 for a couple of weeks and they are great - excellent sound and comfort but poor isolation and looks!


----------



## luedriver

willber said:


> Have you tried clip-ons? I have been using the KSC75 for a couple of weeks and they are great - excellent sound and comfort but poor isolation and looks!


 
 not really, I bought a pair of neckband headphones, the ones that go over your ear and around your neck like this
  
 don't really use them much because I don't stuff over my ears, actually I bought them for my mum, but she didn't like them either so I got stuck with them, 
  
 that was the reason I didn't go and buy the sennheiser omx985, which I kinda regret now


----------



## Willber

luedriver said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Have you tried clip-ons? I have been using the KSC75 for a couple of weeks and they are great - excellent sound and comfort but poor isolation and looks!
> ...


 
  
 Fair enough. Luckily I find mine more comfortable and less noticeable than earbuds when the clips are properly adjusted, and the sound is significantly better IMO.


----------



## kim7135

Got a question for y'all.
  
 Other than the diameter of the earbud head, are there other factors that influence the comfort and fit of an earbud?
  
 About to pull the trigger for Edimun V3 Rho, but i'm worried it might have a bad fit for me (just like the Monk plus), resulting in a painful experience.


----------



## noxa

I guess the diameter and angle of the stalk may cause comfort issues as well as the head diameter, that's why I like the Cygnus as the stalk is very narrow


----------



## JASru

kim7135 said:


> Got a question for y'all.
> 
> Other than the diameter of the earbud head, are there other factors that influence the comfort and fit of an earbud?
> 
> About to pull the trigger for Edimun V3 Rho, but i'm worried it might have a bad fit for me (just like the Monk plus), resulting in a painful experience.


 
 You can buy Edifier bud that they are based off and decide if that suits you.
 This will cost some money, but saves you more if you won't like the fit.


----------



## Ira Delphic

headjelly said:


> cocolinho said:
> 
> 
> > My V10 is a great pairing with TY H400s.
> ...


 
  
 I've had a TY HP650 and using it with an LG V10. Unfortunately I don't have an amp so can't compare to other setups. The V10 drives it just fine. I like to listen to music at moderate volume levels, and I don't think it was necessary to go beyond 50 or 60% max volume.
  
 The TY HP650 is my first plunge into higher end earbuds. I also have a bunch of various MP, Qian 25 & 39, **** PT15, SHE 3800, Sony E808+ , K's 64 silver, etc. I don't like having to change the EQ (I use the app PowerAmp for playback) and with the the HP650, it is not necessary.
  
 Some of my other earbuds are nearly as good overall as the HP650, but the HP650 has immense soundstage, and doesn't have any weak points that need tweaking with EQ. The build quality, cable and 3.5mm plug are also nice. If I learned anything from the HP650 it's how good some of the inexpensive earbuds are! There are some mediocre ones like the K's 64, and on the other hand the Sony E808+ - simply incredible sound for the price!


----------



## Ira Delphic

rkw said:


> flamesofarctica said:
> 
> 
> > As an aside..
> ...


 
  
 I greatly prefer earbuds over IEM's (for comfort, sound quality. and for the lack of sound isolation, but when outdoors in noisy areas earbuds simply don't cut it. Outdoors over ear headphones or IEM's are the best option for listening at reasonable volumes.


----------



## Saoshyant

@Ira Delphic The budget range is quite interesting for earbuds.  There are many I really do like, but currently I find I either listen to Monk+ or E808+.  Then again, there are others that just never grabbed my attention, but it could be a bad pairing with whatever dap I tried them with.  It's also quite impressive just how much of a difference a good pairing makes.


----------



## flamesofarctica

ira delphic said:


> I greatly prefer earbuds over IEM's (for comfort, sound quality. and for the lack of sound isolation, but when outdoors in noisy areas earbuds simply don't cut it. Outdoors over ear headphones or IEM's are the best option for listening at reasonable volumes.




Yep for things like train travel or flights, IEMs or headphones are probably unavoidable, but for all other uses earbuds all the way now. Agree with @rkw it's the closest sensation to listening with good speakers, which is probably how I'd listen to everything if I had no neighbours, partner etc!


----------



## flamesofarctica

golov17 said:


> a lot models.. VE Runabout, Aune, Cayin, Topping, Bluebird etc..




Would the VE Runabout be enough to power the Zen 2 and HP650, or would I need the (much more expensive) Runabout 2?


----------



## vapman

flamesofarctica said:


> Would the VE Runabout be enough to power the Zen 2 and HP650, or would I need the (much more expensive) Runabout 2?




Any amp is fine for high impedance buds. High impedance is not a weird and scary thing  even a CMOY is fine.


----------



## notamethlab

vapman said:


> Any amp is fine for high impedance buds. High impedance is not a weird and scary thing  even a CMOY is fine.



The walnut is able to power the yinman 150ohm very well and it also doubles as an amp


----------



## JASru

vapman said:


> Any amp is fine for high impedance buds. High impedance is not a weird and scary thing  even a CMOY is fine.


 
 I agree with exception of some 500+ monsters (except TY 650 which  surely benefits from extra power, but somehow a decent DAP is sufficient).
  
 BTW if you happen to order from BengkelMacro their EdimunV3 you can add a very good version of CMOY amp with it. I own one and it is definetely good given its 30usd price tag. And the delivery feels not so expensive when you order multiple items as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 

 BTW(2) If you ask for fail-proof packaging - BengkelMacro seems to deliver. You can see photos in the thread *ROFL*


----------



## golov17

http://www.head-fi.org/t/795394/indonesian-portable-dap-prototype-discussion-split-from-tera-player-thread/315#post_13199542
http://revampacoustics.com/nuansa-a1/


----------



## Share2Care

Aloha Peeps.
  
 Will have a fund of around £150 so roughly $200. I have been using a pair of Jays sJays followed by Sennheiser IE60 for the last year or two. Thoroughly enjoyed using them but know that IEM technology has moved on a light year or two. In another year it will be 13 aperture drivers...!
  
 In complete honesty, I love my EDM and some filthy D&D at times, but then I change to the Cinematic Orchestra and the likes of Zero 7. So a rather wide spectrum. A slightly narrower ear canal than the average. They can be powered portably by a FiiO device or the awe inspiring Audioquest Dragonfly which is stunning with my over ear cans as well.
  
 Any help & advice would be very much appreciated.
  
 Thanks


----------



## vapman

share2care said:


> Aloha Peeps.
> 
> Will have a fund of around £150 so roughly $200. I have been using a pair of Jays sJays followed by Sennheiser IE60 for the last year or two. Thoroughly enjoyed using them but know that IEM technology has moved on a light year or two. In another year it will be 13 aperture drivers...!
> 
> ...




Can you do a zen 2 off dragonfly? Idk.


----------



## springbay

corbandalas said:


> Hi guys. Have looked into ClieOS earbuds ranking list and wanted to try something from top stuff. My budget is around 110$, so the only candidates are Rose Masya and K's 500 Ohm. The first one has very interesting design(as for me), detached cable, low impedance, but low sensitivity too. The other one has very high impedance, but high sensitivity. So my question is which earbuds can you suggest, which pros/cons they have. I'm using Tidal on iPhone 6S and AK120 as a DAPs. Can they support enough power to get the best from the sound of these earbuds models? Thanks in advance


 
  
 There is no problem running K's 500 on an iPhone 6S, but the 3,5mm connector is quite bulky (thicker than the phone) so it's not very practical.
 They do sound really good straight from the iPhone, but scale better when amped.


----------



## flamesofarctica

vapman said:


> Any amp is fine for high impedance buds. High impedance is not a weird and scary thing  even a CMOY is fine.







notamethlab said:


> The walnut is able to power the yinman 150ohm very well and it also doubles as an amp




Yep I have a Walnut and it sounds fantastic with the Zen 2 and HP650 using it either way, but every time I read about buds needing an amp, I worry I may be missing out on something... I think it's possible I read too much into these things, especially as the Walnut is pretty powerful


----------



## tinkertailor

springbay said:


> There is no problem running K's 500 on an iPhone 6S, but the 3,5mm connector is quite bulky (thicker than the phone) so it's not very practical.
> They do sound really good straight from the iPhone, but scale better when amped.


 
 It would be cool if there were a list of high impedance buds that run from an iphone (or similar source). I find it crazy (not denying it) the the K's earphone 500 ohm do since I use the 64ohm and they aren't particularly crazy loud (i have 6s also). Also, in the past, people have recomended that the yuin pk1 run from an iphone and I found this to just be wrong. While it did play, it didn't work loud enough at all. So I feel like there is some discrepancy over what 'working means'. But yeah a list of high (150 ohm or more) buds that work would be cool, especially cheap ones.
  
 Also, what's the reason there is seemingly such a divide of quality between high impedance and low impedance buds, and if there isn't, why bother making high impedance buds?


----------



## rkw

tinkertailor said:


> It would be cool if there were _somebody volunteered to compile_ a list of high impedance buds that run from an iphone (or similar source).


 
 Fixed it for you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  


tinkertailor said:


> Also, what's the reason there is seemingly such a divide of quality between high impedance and low impedance buds


 
 For dynamic drivers in general (not just earbuds), better performance is possible by using smaller/lighter voice coil with thinner wires and more windings, but that causes higher impedance and requires driving with more power: https://www.cnet.com/news/headphone-buyers-heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-low-vs-high-impedance-models/


----------



## vapman

flamesofarctica said:


> Yep I have a Walnut and it sounds fantastic with the Zen 2 and HP650 using it either way, but every time I read about buds needing an amp, I worry I may be missing out on something... I think it's possible I read too much into these things, especially as the Walnut is pretty powerful


 
 Trust me when I say the Nut has enough power for ANY high impedance bud. I used to run my hard to drive high impedance buds out of 45 watt zone power amps which put out magnitudes greater power than any portable head amp. I published a video of Walnut making my SZ2000 rattle paper (paper towel at that, harder to move than normal paper). There isn't much that any other amp would bring out that the Nut doesn't - i would suggest a good tube amp as the next step up.


----------



## Willber

share2care said:


> Aloha Peeps.
> 
> Will have a fund of around £150 so roughly $200. I have been using a pair of Jays sJays followed by Sennheiser IE60 for the last year or two. Thoroughly enjoyed using them but know that IEM technology has moved on a light year or two. In another year it will be 13 aperture drivers...!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wouldn't this question be better asked on an IEM thread? This one is for earbuds.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Below is an update to my Remax RM 305m Aluminum Earbud Review. I introduced another Chinese aluminum earbud for reference.

_*Value:*_
_*To keep things in reality, remember this equipment is going to be Mid-Fi at it's best. I'm going to be comparing two value priced ear-buds, one costing about $10-$14 USD and the other $69 USD. They maybe reach the lower level of quality HI/Fi, but simply expecting more would be purely delusional.*_
 
I always planned on an update, mainly due to not having a good second set of ear-buds for reference. It would be like reviewing one IEM after only hearing one IEM. I purchased the MrZ Toneking Musicmaker Ting. Even though the Remax 305m costs about $14 and the Ting $69, they are both Chinese aluminum ear-buds and share some traits in common. In the end the Ting showed me what was possible with an aluminum ear-bud and helped delineate the slight drawbacks in sound quality of the 305m. As seen in the photographs both have a similar shape with the Ting being larger.
 
I needed a second ear-bud to help show what aspects of the sound were just traits of the ear-bud response. To reiterate there are just going to be sound signatures  which result just from the character of the mechanism. Thus all IEMs sound close to the same, all open back headphones share similar traits.....ect, ect. Ear-buds in general will have a slightly lower bass response just due to the physicality of not creating a seal with the ear. Ear-buds in general offer a farther away and more relaxed sound due to their intrinsic construction nature. A second aluminum ear-bud regardless of quality is going to help line out the benefits and faults of the Remax.
 
_*Ting Vs Remax 305m*_
 
Both ear-buds end up being midcentric with the Remax 305m having a slightly forward upper midrange and treble. Remember too that most ear-buds are known for their replication of mid-frequencies. The Ting almost struggles with bringing compressed vocal tracks up inside the mix, where the Remax seems to bring the vocals forward with ease. Still the Ting showed a spectacular skill of bringing the treble items such as cymbals and launching them farther out in the soundstage. In contrast we now can view the 305m for what is is and what it is not. Much of these comparisons could be the same comparing the ($29 USD) Piston 3 IEM and the ($100 USD)1More Triple Driver IEM. The Piston shows a simple and not fully expanded treble response, though adequate, becomes almost undetailed when in comparison to the Triple Driver.
 
 
In ending there is definitely an area where the Remax 305m can not go. The Ting offers a fully explored bass region as well as a more expensive sounding treble response. The learning came from understanding that all ear-buds offer a similar slightly farther away soundstage just due to their nature. The Ting also never walks near shouty where part of the Remax character is to bring the upper midrange forward, helping with vocals but nearing a shouty signature.
 
_*Interestingly The Ting ends up darker and the Remax on the bright side of middle centric.*_
_*So you have a lush area with the Ting where the Remax 305M offers detail in a different way along with a slightly pulled back detailed bass.*_
 
_*As in most upgrades it really depends what your looking for. The Ting does solve some of our issues to bring us closer to a perfect sound, though I can't help but wonder if I would enjoy a mixture of these two sound signatures the best.*_
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 




Equipment Used:
Schiit Asgard Amplifier 
DACMagic Plus DAC
Electra Glide Audio Epiphany MK2 Power Cord
Virtual Dynamics Master Series RCA Interconnects
Rega Planet Transport 
Datalink 100 Digital Coaxial Cable
iPhone 4
iPod Touch Generation Five


Music:
Compact Disks 16 bit-44.1 kHz
MP3 Sound Files
FLAC Files IPhone 4/iPod Touch/ Foobar 2000 Resolute


----------



## cocolinho

hey all,
 currently enjoying my TY HP400s out of my LG V10.
 I really like what I'm hearing but I would like a bit more clarity & more energy in the upper mids without sacrifying bass & full lower mids. Any recommandation? 
 I'm not sure that HP650 would be the right path, currently leaning toward K's 500 instead. I'm also thinking about Shozy Stardust/BK but I'm afraid it won't have enough bass for my taste (currently have Cygnus --> not enough bass)
 Thanks


----------



## kim7135

jasru said:


> You can buy Edifier bud that they are based off and decide if that suits you.
> This will cost some money, but saves you more if you won't like the fit.


 
 I also thought doing that would be the safest choice. As noxa mentioned, stalk angle probably would affect the comfort also, which I never thought of. 
  
 Hence, bought the H180 at around US$4 from Edifier Malaysia as they were on promotion. Thanks for the suggestion, JASru!


----------



## Redcarmoose

kim7135 said:


> I also thought doing that would be the safest choice. As noxa mentioned, stalk angle probably would affect the comfort also, which I never thought of.
> 
> Hence, bought the H180 at around US$4 from Edifier Malaysia as they were on promotion. Thanks for the suggestion, JASru!




I demoed the Edifier180 yesterday myself but found it did not get loud enough straight out of a phone. Here in Indonesia there is also a big DIY recable movement with the 180.


----------



## kim7135

redcarmoose said:


> I demoed the Edifier180 yesterday myself but found it did not get loud enough straight out of a phone. Here in Indonesia there is also a big DIY recable movement with the 180.


 
 Hopefully it'll sound good with the X3ii. Yeah, the Red Demun and Edimun are getting a lot of attention and praise here, and I'm planning to get one myself after testing the fit and comfort with the H180. Luckily I live in a country near Indonesia, resulting in slightly cheaper shipping costs in comparison to those in the US.


----------



## Saoshyant

redcarmoose said:


> I demoed the Edifier180 yesterday myself but found it did not get loud enough straight out of a phone. Here in Indonesia there is also a big DIY recable movement with the 180.


 
  
 Hmm, guess I've only listened to mine via an LG V10 when listening on phone.  One of the bassier budget earbuds, but honestly I'd currently rather use E808+.


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> Hmm, guess I've only listened to mine via an LG V10 when listening on phone.  One of the bassier budget earbuds, but honestly I'd currently rather use E808+.


try RY04S too


----------



## Saoshyant

@golov17 I found RY04, but not the S.  Do you have a link?


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> @golov17
> I found RY04, but not the S.  Do you have a link?


 RY4S original in-ear Earphone 15mm music quality sound HIFI Earphone (MX500 style earphone) 3.5mm L Bending hifi cable
 http://s.aliexpress.com/BFfY7Bva


----------



## Joy Boy

golov17 said:


> RY4S original in-ear Earphone 15mm music quality sound HIFI Earphone (MX500 style earphone) 3.5mm L Bending hifi cable
> http://s.aliexpress.com/BFfY7Bva



It reminds me so much with suvov s20.
Maybe it sounds similar?


----------



## golov17

joy boy said:


> It reminds me so much with suvov s20.
> Maybe it sounds similar?


 similar, but not quite..


----------



## Redcarmoose

kim7135 said:


> Hopefully it'll sound good with the X3ii. Yeah, the Red Demun and Edimun are getting a lot of attention and praise here, and I'm planning to get one myself after testing the fit and comfort with the H180. Luckily I live in a country near Indonesia, resulting in slightly cheaper shipping costs in comparison to those in the US.




I still can't get the Edifier H180 for less than $15USD here, that's why I have not purchased it. The Edifier H185 was $15 Rp. Indonesian and it was much more easy to drive than the H180. Still in the end I purchased neither.

The choices of earbuds are getting convoluted here. Many come from strange islands where they are handmade from parts and have small DIY names you never heard of. They can come in off colors like army green?

Heard one the other day that looked like a Monk and had more bass than even the Ting. The mids and treble were not that bad and it was $7, but still it was not for me.


----------



## Joy Boy

golov17 said:


> similar, but not quite..



Nice. May be i will buy it.
Or may be you can tell me where i could purchase some of suvov s10 or other series?


----------



## golov17

joy boy said:


> Nice. May be i will buy it.
> Or may be you can tell me where i could purchase some of suvov s10 or other series?


Unfortunately, all Suvov sold out


----------



## Redcarmoose

kim7135 said:


> Hopefully it'll sound good with the X3ii. Yeah, the Red Demun and Edimun are getting a lot of attention and praise here, and I'm planning to get one myself after testing the fit and comfort with the H180. Luckily I live in a country near Indonesia, resulting in slightly cheaper shipping costs in comparison to those in the US.




The H180 was the best ear-buds I had heard in shops all weekend. I had just spent a lot on other stuff and the shop I was at would not negotiate at all. I also get Chinese stuff from Jakarta in as fast as three days, but it's a risky web site where you can get ripped off, so I don't post it here. Lucky though some of my purchases actually made it. Lol


----------



## chinmie

redcarmoose said:


> I demoed the Edifier180 yesterday myself but found it did not get loud enough straight out of a phone. Here in Indonesia there is also a big DIY recable movement with the 180.


 
  
  


redcarmoose said:


> I still can't get the Edifier H180 for less than $15USD here, that's why I have not purchased it. The Edifier H185 was $15 Rp. Indonesian and it was much more easy to drive than the H180. Still in the end I purchased neither.


 
  
 You're in Indonesia? you could find the H180 on Tokopedia for as low as IDR 70 k for loose pack (i don't konw if this is original or not) or 80 k's with packaging and warranty
 I'm also planning to buy either the edimun or red de'mun after i can compare them both...or worse...buy them both


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> Unfortunately, all Suvov sold out


 
  
 I wish I knew this before I gave out all but one of my pairs to my family.  

 Though, luckily I still have one pair left and they sound amazing. 

 --


----------



## Redcarmoose

chinmie said:


> You're in Indonesia? you could find the H180 on Tokopedia for as low as IDR 70 k for loose pack (i don't konw if this is original or not) or 80 k's with packaging and warranty
> I'm also planning to buy either the edimun or red de'mun after i can compare them both...or worse...buy them both




Actually I'm on Bali Island. And our stuff is taxed by 100% at times. As far as I know I'm not able to use Tokopedia as the stuff is going to be opened, web searched for price then double priced as a ticket you have to pay before getting your opened package. There is a ton of stuff I can get online here, but the site is risky so I don't post it. The reason it works is it's inside Indonesia so no more tax is issued. Thanks though! Cheers!


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> I wish I knew this before I gave out all but one of my pairs to my family.
> 
> 
> Though, luckily I still have one pair left and they sound amazing.
> ...


haha, same here.. One modded pair s20 & s30 in my collection, lol


----------



## Danneq

redcarmoose said:


> Actually I'm on Bali Island. And our stuff is taxed by 100% at times. As far as I know I'm not able to use Tokopedia as the stuff is going to be opened, web searched for price then double priced as a ticket you have to pay before getting your opened package. There is a ton of stuff I can get online here, but the site is risky so I don't post it. The reason it works is it's inside Indonesia so no more tax is issued. Thanks though! Cheers!


 


 WOW! I thought that Swedish customs was strict! They just go with the value that is marked on the package and do not bother to check the actual value. At least when it's not very known audio brands...


----------



## Joy Boy

golov17 said:


> Unfortunately, all Suvov sold out






golov17 said:


> haha, same here.. One modded pair s20 & s30 in my collection, lol



So lucky. I've ever had them but i gave up on them for another earbud.
And now i only have s20 and try too look for s10 for one of my daily bud. 
It sounds so great for it price


----------



## Redcarmoose

danneq said:


> WOW! I thought that Swedish customs was strict! They just go with the value that is marked on the package and do not bother to check the actual value. At least when it's not very known audio brands...




Yes, it's a give and take. Some aspects are great about this place. 

But.....,,,,,,
They even took a vinyl record DJ flight case apart and tried to charge my brother a $1 a vinyl record. Sadly my brother refuses to bring me anything from the states for fear of meeting up with the men in uniform at the airport. Haha!


----------



## Saoshyant

Hmm would the Koss KDE250 count as an earbud or some strange mad science project?


----------



## Redcarmoose

saoshyant said:


> Hmm would the Koss KDE250 count as an earbud or some strange mad science project?






The same person who owns those has these too. Are they a headphone or a neckphone?


----------



## Saoshyant

I completely forgot that existed.


----------



## Redcarmoose

​


saoshyant said:


> I completely forgot that existed.







I remember seeing one for sale here in 2012-2013.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/613543/fs-sennheiser-surrounder-pro#post_8457885


----------



## chinmie

redcarmoose said:


> Actually I'm on Bali Island. And our stuff is taxed by 100% at times. As far as I know I'm not able to use Tokopedia as the stuff is going to be opened, web searched for price then double priced as a ticket you have to pay before getting your opened package. There is a ton of stuff I can get online here, but the site is risky so I don't post it. The reason it works is it's inside Indonesia so no more tax is issued. Thanks though! Cheers!




Tokopedia is a local indonesian (ebay-like) site, and the sellers is all from indonesia, so i think there should be no issue about tax for shipment and everything to bali


----------



## Redcarmoose

chinmie said:


> Tokopedia is a local indonesian (ebay-like) site, and the sellers is all from indonesia, so i think there should be no issue about tax for shipment and everything to bali




Wow thank-you!


----------



## kim7135

saoshyant said:


> Hmm would the Koss KDE250 count as an earbud or some strange mad science project?


 
 I'm assuming you found it on massdrop? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Slightly tempted by it...and definitely interesting. Something like a hybrid earbud?? No idea how to label/describe it.


----------



## Saoshyant

kim7135 said:


> I'm assuming you found it on massdrop?
> 
> Slightly tempted by it...and definitely interesting. Something like a hybrid earbud?? No idea how to label/describe it.




Yep, and at $100 it's tempting, but there's very little info about it.


----------



## mochill

Blue demon for 70USD without shipping


----------



## vapman

mochill said:


> Blue demon for 70USD without shipping


 
 60


----------



## mochill

What 60?? I was told 70USD for blue demun


----------



## Ira Delphic

vapman said:


> mochill said:
> 
> 
> > Blue demon for 70USD without shipping
> ...


 
  
 Would a group buy work to save on shipping? In other words we place one order of multiple earbuds to arrive to one delivery address - headfi member.  I'm in if we can get the shipping cost to a reasonable level. My guess that customs/ tarrif would be a problem.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Speaking of weird earbuds, the *Koss KDE250* is on Massdrop for *$100 + $7.75 shipping*:

 www.massdrop.com/buy/koss-kde-250-ear-clips
  

  
 --


----------



## memebyull

Hi, new here/massive lurker. 
  
 So I just picked up the Zen 2 (non-black vers), and I'm wondering if anyone has any comparisons of that to Edimun/Blox B320/Yinman 500/K's 500. Or if there's another earbud they'd recommend aside from Cypherus series (since I'm already considering those).


----------



## Saoshyant

Well that's three of us looking at the Koss so far


----------



## Ira Delphic

bloodypenguin said:


> Speaking of weird earbuds, the *Koss KDE250* is on Massdrop for *$100 + $7.75 shipping*:
> 
> www.massdrop.com/buy/koss-kde-250-ear-clips
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'll definitely pass on these. A sample review from Amazon - _First, my point of agreement: the sound of these is fantastic... truly "dynamic." *Just don't expect to keep them securely in place for very long. *I tried everything I could to adjust them so they wouldn't shift from their placement in my ears, but to no avail. You might say they're not intended for active use, but these are geared toward sedentary (ie, sitting still) use. Too bad!_
  
Also they appear to be uncomfortable to wear. One of the things I love about earbuds is that they are unobtrusive!


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> Well that's three of us looking at the Koss so far


 interesting, although controversial comfort fitting


----------



## Saoshyant

Might not be impossible to put a different type of ear clip on it for better comfort.


----------



## Ira Delphic

removed.


----------



## Redcarmoose

ira delphic said:


> Also there are safely concerns. What if a consumer didn't read the instructions and put the L-shaped metal bar into the ear canal?




Gosh,
Folks love the sound of these though a slight roll of the dice if by chance your ear size will work or not?



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



. 
If your ear canal and anti-helix are large enough to accept these headphones, they will fit; if not they won't. Obviously an earphone that does not go into your ear correctly will sound terrible. (try taking an IEM and holding it 1/4 inch from your ear... It doesn't work) That said, they fit me, and are neither comfortable, nor uncomfortable, they are for playing music, not feeling nice.


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, a week to decide if it's worth the risk. Interesting to see a what, 8 year old Koss resurface?


----------



## teesui

oh man. I am contemplating those Koss' too! I feel like Koss is just trying to get rid of old stock that's taking up space in their warehouse....which is why they went the MD route.


----------



## vapman

100 is a hefty price but i bet 13mm+20mm sounds sweet if properly done. I would trust Koss to have done their homework. Very tempted.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> 100 is a hefty price but i bet 13mm+20mm sounds sweet if properly done. I would trust Koss to have done their homework. Very tempted.


 btw, from the lower limit of 40 Hz


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> btw, from the lower limit of 40 Hz




I saw, thank you for checking  i appreciate it!

Ira Delphic no customs tax importing to usa, so no problem.


----------



## kfarndog

vapman said:


> Any amp is fine for high impedance buds. High impedance is not a weird and scary thing  even a CMOY is fine.


 
 I will second the CMOY suggestion if you need to watch your budget.  I find great synergy between the Zen 2 and JDS BB cMoy.


----------



## kfarndog

vapman said:


> Can you do a zen 2 off dragonfly? Idk.


 
 Zen 2 and the Dragonfly Red play well together.  Be aware some people have had issues with the Dragonflys and certain sources.  The Dragonfly thread is a good information source.


----------



## vapman

mochill said:


> What 60?? I was told 70USD for blue demun


 
 I think he is telling people different prices. someone got told 65 USD + shipping.


----------



## noxa

Do we even know a general sound sig for the Puresound PS100 600?


----------



## Ira Delphic

vapman said:


> mochill said:
> 
> 
> > What 60?? I was told 70USD for blue demun
> ...




How about a group buy to save on shipping? I'm curious if this would work for those of us in usa. Order goes to one recipient in us, then sent to various head-fiers


----------



## vapman

noxa said:


> Do we even know a general sound sig for the Puresound PS100 600?


 
 I do but I am waiting to make sure a few more days burn in doesn't change sound sig before i go on blabbering about it. It will be soon I promise.


----------



## ryanjsoo

cocolinho said:


> hey all,
> currently enjoying my TY HP400s out of my LG V10.
> I really like what I'm hearing but I would like a bit more clarity & more energy in the upper mids without sacrifying bass & full lower mids. Any recommandation?
> I'm not sure that HP650 would be the right path, currently leaning toward K's 500 instead. I'm also thinking about Shozy Stardust/BK but I'm afraid it won't have enough bass for my taste (currently have Cygnus --> not enough bass)
> Thanks




Not enough bass! You could try giving Heigi donut foams a go, I found they produced more bass extension and slam to my Cygnus and opened up the top end a little. They're like $3 USD from penon.


----------



## Townyj

My Diomnes are at the Post Office  time to wait patiently for them to be delivered.


----------



## Redcarmoose

God those look nice, and I can order them...scary.
  
  
 https://www.tokopedia.com/herzhz/abnormal-diomnes-diy-earbud-earphone
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 Quote:


townyj said:


> My Diomnes are at the Post Office  time to wait patiently for them to be delivered.


----------



## DBaldock9

Just ordered a couple of Earbuds from the Venture Electronics shop on AliExpress, to see how I like their sound.  After the Chinese New Year, I'm looking forward to receiving:
  
 VE Monk Plus Espresso (2.5TRRS)
 VE Asura 2.0 (2.5TRRS)
  
  
 When I'm in a fairly quiet environment, due to the comfort and "open sound-stage", I've actually been preferring the two earbuds I currently have - the MusicMaker TKY2, and the **** PT15.  Other earbuds I've got on-order, are the Daik DK-Song, and the 1More Piston (this is my 2nd set of 1More Piston, the first ones were given to my Dad).
  
 Take Care,
 David Baldock


----------



## Townyj

redcarmoose said:


>


 
  
 GL on ordering a pair, i spoke to Hersang and he only had one pair left. They are now end of life with no more being made.


----------



## boblauer

Tokooedia days they are no longer for sale, following the link posted.


----------



## Townyj

redcarmoose said:


>


 
  


boblauer said:


> Tokooedia days they are no longer for sale, following the link posted.


 
  
 I am afraid so, never used Tokopedia for purchases.


----------



## Joy Boy

boblauer said:


> Tokooedia days they are no longer for sale, following the link posted.







townyj said:


> GL on ordering a pair, i spoke to Hersang and he only had one pair left. They are now end of life with no more being made.



Yup, it's oficially sold out. He said they only have 2 pair of drivers left now. One for local buyer, so only 1 of diomnes that stil available.
Fortunately i got diomnes first batch with jack viablue gold from my friends.
I hope they will continue to produce it. Especially the one that hearsang have, diomnes with lizt cable and balance jack (diomnes lv.2)


----------



## Townyj

joy boy said:


> Yup, it's oficially sold out. He said they only have 2 pair of drivers left now. One for local buyer, so only 1 of diomnes that stil available.
> Fortunately i got diomnes first batch with jack viablue gold from my friends.
> I hope they will continue to produce it. Especially the one that hearsang have, diomnes with lizt cable and balance jack (diomnes lv.2)


 
  
 I was tempted to get the litz ones, but i really dug that thick cardas cable on the stock version!
  
 Mine have been delivered, so when i get home they will get a listen.


----------



## headjelly

Hey, does anybody know how are TY 400se different from TY 400/400s?


----------



## vapman

Puresounds PS100-600 I have not started writing my review yet, but I realized I have 200ish hours on these, the sound has been consistent for a few days, and Puresounds asked 100 hours burn in before sharing impressions. I already know what I think of them and will share a preview for those who have been dying to hear about it before my review is published.
  

Top tier sound, but $140 price tag is higher than I'd want to pay for these. That said, it can compete with other flagships which I've heard.
I've not heard a Cypherus, but I've heard them described as full headphone-like experiences. This is how I would describe the PS100-600.
Too quiet off a DAP or phone. Got to okay volumes with my LG V10, but was better after amping.
Does not take to heavy EQ terribly well. however, its un-EQ'd sound is phenomenal.
VERY fast and VERY detailed, I don't think I have heard a bud this detailed since Mojito.
Honest and balanced sound across the sound spectrum, impressive bass depth without any EQ, enormous but non exaggerated soundstage
Barely V shaped, but excellent treble and bass extension on both ends. Studio monitor-esque sound signature.
No giant wow factor that wears off, not tiring for very long listening sessions, even at medium to loud volumes (sounds killer at loud volumes, a problem with Cypheruses apparently)
  
 I would like to see it sell for ~$100. But, even at $140, you can be assured you're getting a very worthy bud. It has the clarity of TY 650, speed of Mojito, energy of the low impedance TY's, and overall sound signature of the MX985/Red Demun, or a less V shaped and more mid heavy Edimun V3.
  
 Winner? Time will tell but I haven't been interested in much else since hearing these, except my DIY buds which are comparable in mids and treble but don't have the speed or great bass of the PS100-600.


----------



## Joy Boy

townyj said:


> I was tempted to get the litz ones, but i really dug that thick cardas cable on the stock version!
> 
> Mine have been delivered, so when i get home they will get a listen.



Cant wait to see your first impression. I hope you will share it here


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

vapman said:


> Puresounds PS100-600 I have not started writing my review yet, but I realized I have 200ish hours on these, the sound has been consistent for a few days, and Puresounds asked 100 hours burn in before sharing impressions. I already know what I think of them and will share a preview for those who have been dying to hear about it before my review is published.
> 
> 
> Top tier sound, but $140 price tag is higher than I'd want to pay for these. That said, it can compete with other flagships which I've heard.
> ...


 
  
 SWEET! Thank You I look forward to your polished review. I would definitely buy this in a heart beat if it was around $100.
  
 P.S
  
 Have you heard the 2017 Seahf 650ohm to compare it with?
 Any *Microphonics* ?


----------



## kurtextrem

vapman said:


> Puresounds PS100-600 I have not started writing my review yet, but I realized I have 200ish hours on these, the sound has been consistent for a few days, and Puresounds asked 100 hours burn in before sharing impressions. I already know what I think of them and will share a preview for those who have been dying to hear about it before my review is published.
> 
> 
> Top tier sound, but $140 price tag is higher than I'd want to pay for these. That said, it can compete with other flagships which I've heard.
> ...


 
 So you have a new champ over the TY 650?


----------



## vapman

kurtextrem said:


> So you have a new champ over the TY 650?


 

 TY 650 hasn't been my #1 for a long time


----------



## chaiyuta

vapman said:


> TY 650 hasn't been my #1 for a long time


 
 What's your No.1 right now? I also want to see Rose releases a new flagship earbud this year but don't know whether it will be or not?


----------



## notamethlab

dbaldock9 said:


> Just ordered a couple of Earbuds from the Venture Electronics shop on AliExpress, to see how I like their sound.  After the Chinese New Year, I'm looking forward to receiving:
> 
> VE Monk Plus Espresso (2.5TRRS)
> VE Asura 2.0 (2.5TRRS)
> ...



Looking forward to your impressions on the DK-song


----------



## vapman

chaiyuta said:


> What's your No.1 right now? I also want to see Rose releases a new flagship earbud this year but don't know whether it will be or not?


 

 I will be honest. I was not interested in puresounds before they offered me a review sample. Now I regret not paying attention to them sooner. but i am very glad they reached out to me. I never was fully satisfied with ty 650 for having paid full price. I could have paid full price for this and been happier I think.
  I don't know if I am ready to call this a final list since the PS100-600 is only about a week in my collection.
  

Red demun (less extension on both ends than PS100-600 but too amazing at what it does)
PS100-600
Asura 2.0
My DIY design
Qian39


----------



## noxa

Thank you Vapman, it is seeming to me that the K's 500 maybe more to my liking, I'd like to hear your opinions between the two though.


----------



## notamethlab

vapman said:


> Puresounds PS100-600
> 
> I have not started writing my review yet, but I realized I have 200ish hours on these, the sound has been consistent for a few days, and Puresounds asked 100 hours burn in before sharing impressions. I already know what I think of them and will share a preview for those who have been dying to hear about it before my review is published.
> 
> ...



Hmm I wonder how much of a difference there is between the 500ohm and 600ohm versions??


----------



## vapman

noxa said:


> Thank you Vapman, it is seeming to me that the K's 500 maybe more to my liking, I'd like to hear your opinions between the two though.


 

 I am not a fan of K's sound, 64 or 500. I cant say for sure about k's 500, never heard it, but i've read many comparisons of k's 64 and 500, and 500 has everything i hated about 64... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 My feeling is if k's 500 seems more appealing of a sig to you, youre probably right. PS100-600 is not for everybody, neither is k's 500


----------



## vapman

notamethlab said:


> Hmm I wonder how much of a difference there is between the 500ohm and 600ohm versions??


 

 I asked (after i had decided it was studio monitor-ish) about the difference between all models and got this response


> It is generally believed that ps100-600 is monitor-style earbuds ,and ps100-260 is much more suitable for pop music, ps100-500-POP version is good at vocals


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

vapman said:


> I asked (after i had decided it was studio monitor-ish) about the difference between all models and got this response


 
  
  
 Hows the Puresounds Cable quality & any Microphonics?


----------



## vapman

midnightempest said:


> Hows the Puresounds Cable quality & any Microphonics?


 
  
 Not microphonic, not bad cable but could be a little better, plug is nice though and has 600*Ω engraved on the plug.*


----------



## cocolinho

ryanjsoo said:


> Not enough bass! You could try giving Heigi donut foams a go, I found they produced more bass extension and slam to my Cygnus and opened up the top end a little. They're like $3 USD from penon.


 
 Nop... I like bass but I'm not a basshead. I enjoy bass produced by my HP400s. I start to wonder if my Cygnus are defective or not but don't think so , the rest of the spectrum is great.
 I find these Cygnus quite mid centric.


----------



## vapman

cocolinho said:


> Nop... I like bass but I'm not a basshead. I enjoy bass produced by my HP400s. I start to wonder if my Cygnus are defective or not but don't think so , the rest of the spectrum is great.
> I find these Cygnus quite mid centric.


 
 nothing wrong with your cygnus, no matter what tricks or eq you do it has very shallow bass in all senses


----------



## Saoshyant

@vapman I will most likely ship out your toy dap on Thursday morning, and will most likely include a VE 2.5mm to 3.5mm trrs adapter as I think they sent me a spare with the new one I just got.  You might get a kick out of the Hifiman adapter for allowing use of SE plugs as it only has a balanced jack.  It's a bit convoluted.
  
@cocolinho I concur with Vapman as the Cygnus's weakest aspect is the bass presence.  For a similar quality vocal presentation but more bass, I'd probably suggest the Rose Masya, although I'm a bit of a Rose fanboy so far, so take the suggestion for what it's worth.  All in all it has to do with the design of earbuds which limits the ability to produce bass.  In many ways it's similar to open vs closed headphones as bass capabilities in a generic sense as you can always find exceptions.  While open headphones like the Hifiman HE400 or some of the SennGrado builds can have really respectable bass, a closed headphone as Vapman can attest to, can and will outperform in this respect if you get one designed to do so.  So if you really are after bass and don't mind the isolation and comfort difference, IEMs will be more capable.  If you're mainly after a bassy earbud, Vapman yet again is the one to ask, although many of us can make suggestions.


----------



## cocolinho

saoshyant said:


> @cocolinho I concur with Vapman as the Cygnus's weakest aspect is the bass presence.  For a similar quality vocal presentation but more bass, I'd probably suggest the Rose Masya, although I'm a bit of a Rose fanboy so far, so take the suggestion for what it's worth.  All in all it has to do with the design of earbuds which limits the ability to produce bass.  In many ways it's similar to open vs closed headphones as bass capabilities in a generic sense as you can always find exceptions.  While open headphones like the Hifiman HE400 or some of the SennGrado builds can have really respectable bass, a closed headphone as Vapman can attest to, can and will outperform in this respect if you get one designed to do so.  So if you really are after bass and don't mind the isolation and comfort difference, IEMs will be more capable.  If you're mainly after a bassy earbud, Vapman yet again is the one to ask, although many of us can make suggestions.


 
 Thank you for the head-up. I fully understand your statement and I agree with you. I'm not looking for similar bass performance as IEM, like I said I like the bass that my HP400s can deliver, I'm not looking for more. The thing is reading reviews of the Cygnus here & there , bass are quite well rated but when I bought my pair I was literally disappointed, the rest of the spectrum is nice but the bass is clearly lacking to me.
 Again I'm not a basshead (my main ring is Edition X V2 + NFB1 amp and own Togo334 too), I'm just seeking for recommendations to upgrade my HP400s , looking for same bass level but a bit more energy/clarity in upper mids and I can't clearly identify a good candidate for that , even after getting more info from Vapman (he likes HP650, he did not like HP400s)


----------



## Saoshyant

@cocolinho The closest comparison I might be able to make would be the SeaHF 320 I have vs Rose Masya as I can already recommend the Masya for a vocal earbud, and it does have greater bass presence than Cygnus without a doubt.  As I haven't heard the 400s I can't make any direct comparisons.  Not many of us have tried the Masya, so finding someone with both might be a little difficult for the time being.


----------



## Townyj

Diomnes in the house!!  one word.. rocking!!


----------



## aoitenshi6509

townyj said:


> Diomnes in the house!!  one word.. rocking!!




Good to know you like Indonesian custom earbuds 
I was once introduced to diomnes when we had and audiophile gathering here in Jakarta, Indonesia 

Enjoy your diomnes, Sir #Thumbs_up


----------



## Townyj

aoitenshi6509 said:


> Good to know you like Indonesian custom earbuds
> I was once introduced to diomnes when we had and audiophile gathering here in Jakarta, Indonesia
> 
> Enjoy your diomnes, Sir #Thumbs_up




I am a fan of indonesian buds after owning the Edimun and Demun  sure know how to make custom tuned buds.


----------



## Saoshyant

I've only heard 2 Indonesian buds so far, the Demun and Crow Audio Signature Edition, and should be getting an Edimun soon.  I really should start looking into what other companies are around.


----------



## Joy Boy

townyj said:


> Diomnes in the house!!  one word.. rocking!!



Great!! 



saoshyant said:


> I've only heard 2 Indonesian buds so far, the Demun and Crow Audio Signature Edition, and should be getting an Edimun soon.  I really should start looking into what other companies are around.



There are so many of them. In fact, here in indonesia there are so many prod.house that made amazing earbud.

For entry level there are sabia by elibuds and raid by laki sc.
For mid-high end:
Diomnes-dietris by abnormal
Edimun by BengkelMacro
Red/blue demun by de'mun
Campfred/Qfred by cypherus
Crow/raven by crow audio
And other line uo from various prod house (kanzenoka, heavenly sound, etc)


----------



## aoitenshi6509

I own elibuds sabia V1, kanzenoka yinyang V1.2 and soon to have Raid V1 

And there is kanzenoka shiro, elibuds asti (vocal lover), elibuds saida.. they are all limited edition ..


There are more indonesian custom earbuds, but I cannot keep up with the updates


----------



## Saoshyant

I should try Elibuds at some point, and I really assume I'll buy a Cypherus soon enough too, although I wish I could audition the CampFred before making a decision.
  
@Joy Boy What do you know about the Raven?  I was really impressed with the Crow, not sure if Signature Edition is the normal Crow or not, and would most likely try another from Crow Audio.


----------



## Joy Boy

saoshyant said:


> I should try Elibuds at some point, and I really assume I'll buy a Cypherus soon enough too, although I wish I could audition the CampFred before making a decision.
> 
> @Joy Boy
> What do you know about the Raven?  I was really impressed with the Crow, not sure if Signature Edition is the normal Crow or not, and would most likely try another from Crow Audio.



For Raven, it has allrounder sound. More "omnivora" than crow, which in my opinion is great for vocal.

For signature, it's modded base on the prefference of the builder. But if i'm not mistaken, you can ask them to make the one thay fit in your sound prefference. And you also can order specific jack (brand and type).

But from what i've heard, they are on hiatus now due to lack of some part, especially for the driver


----------



## golov17

cocolinho said:


> Thank you for the head-up. I fully understand your statement and I agree with you. I'm not looking for similar bass performance as IEM, like I said I like the bass that my HP400s can deliver, I'm not looking for more. The thing is reading reviews of the Cygnus here & there , bass are quite well rated but when I bought my pair I was literally disappointed, the rest of the spectrum is nice but the bass is clearly lacking to me.
> Again I'm not a basshead (my main ring is Edition X V2 + NFB1 amp and own Togo334 too), I'm just seeking for recommendations to upgrade my HP400s , looking for same bass level but a bit more energy/clarity in upper mids and I can't clearly identify a good candidate for that , even after getting more info from Vapman (he likes HP650, he did not like HP400s)


try Ostry kc08t


----------



## Saoshyant

Ah so I have a custom Crow then, it's really an impressive earbud.


----------



## Fabi

Looking forward to Campfred vs Diomnes comparisons


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> Puresounds PS100-600 I have not started writing my review yet, but I realized I have 200ish hours on these, the sound has been consistent for a few days, and Puresounds asked 100 hours burn in before sharing impressions. I already know what I think of them and will share a preview for those who have been dying to hear about it before my review is published.
> 
> ....


 
  
 Nice mini-review.  I agree with a lot of what you are saying. 

 I would have normally had my full review out already, but my wife and son have been sick (bad colds).  So I am struggling to get much work done.

 I just need to find some time to sit down and finish my review, which is like about 60% completed.


 --


----------



## Joy Boy

bloodypenguin said:


> Nice mini-review.  I agree with a lot of what you are saying.
> 
> 
> I would have normally had my full review out already, but my wife and son have been sick (bad colds).  So I am struggling to get much work done.
> ...



Can't wait for it. I hope your wife and son get well soon


----------



## Ira Delphic

joy boy said:


> townyj said:
> 
> 
> > Diomnes in the house!!
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for clearing things up for some of us! I always thought Edimun was made by d'mun!


----------



## Saoshyant

ira delphic said:


> Thanks for clearing things up for some of us! I always thought Edimun was made by d'mun!




If memory serves the two are friends


----------



## Joy Boy

ira delphic said:


> Thanks for clearing things up for some of us! I always thought Edimun was made by d'mun!







saoshyant said:


> If memory serves the two are friends



You're welcome. Yup, they are different person.
And yup, they're both are friends and live in same city


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> Puresounds PS100-600 I have not started writing my review yet, but I realized I have 200ish hours on these, the sound has been consistent for a few days, and Puresounds asked 100 hours burn in before sharing impressions. I already know what I think of them and will share a preview for those who have been dying to hear about it before my review is published.
> 
> 
> Top tier sound, but $140 price tag is higher than I'd want to pay for these. That said, it can compete with other flagships which I've heard.
> ...


 
  
 Oh snap daug.....ROSE MOJITO?! My favourite ROSE MOJITO?! Really?!

 Lucky I have yet to pull the trigger on the Yinman 500


----------



## Ira Delphic

cocolinho said:


> saoshyant said:
> 
> 
> > @cocolinho I concur with Vapman as the Cygnus's weakest aspect is the bass presence.  For a similar quality vocal presentation but more bass, I'd probably suggest the Rose Masya, although I'm a bit of a Rose fanboy so far, so take the suggestion for what it's worth.  All in all it has to do with the design of earbuds which limits the ability to produce bass.  In many ways it's similar to open vs closed headphones as bass capabilities in a generic sense as you can always find exceptions.  While open headphones like the Hifiman HE400 or some of the SennGrado builds can have really respectable bass, a closed headphone as Vapman can attest to, can and will outperform in this respect if you get one designed to do so.  So if you really are after bass and don't mind the isolation and comfort difference, IEMs will be more capable.  If you're mainly after a bassy earbud, Vapman yet again is the one to ask, although many of us can make suggestions.
> ...


 
  
 Apparently he no longer likes the HP650, even though it was originally given 5 stars. Here's an update to the review in case you missed it - http://www.head-fi.org/products/ty-hi-z-650/reviews/17070
  
*1/21/2017 update*
_Reduced from 5 stars to 4 stars. Reason being, it doesn't have anywhere close to the greatest bass in earbuds anymore, and I have not used it much recently as it is a little too laid back for me. In combination with its hyper neutral sound sig, could be boring for some. But, i still think it is one of the best choices for pure critical listening._
  
 I recently purchased the HP650, in part based on the above (pre-update)  review. Lucky for me I'm not a bass head, and love a neutral sounding earbud that doesn't need EQ adjustment. Heck, one of my favorite earbuds is the **** PT15, which I sometimes refer to as the "treble monster" (which is a slight exaggeration).  I've had the HP650 for a couple of weeks and am very pleased with it. So what's the takeaway from this? Our tastes can change over time and life is too short to stick with an earbud that doesn't provide our optimal sq.
  
 Here's a different review - from Bloody Penguin - http://www.head-fi.org/products/ty-hi-z-650/reviews/17757


----------



## rkw

vapman said:


> midnightempest said:
> 
> 
> > Hows the Puresounds Cable quality & any Microphonics?
> ...


 
  
 How about microphonics of the PS-600 earpiece shell? Does it ring and resonate when you tap on it? Its shell appears to be like the one in Zen2 and Monk+, which has an empty resonating chamber that adds reverb to the sound. It adds an unnatural coloration to unamplified acoustic instruments such as in classical music.


----------



## golov17

rkw said:


> How about microphonics of the PS-600 earpiece shell? Does it ring and resonate when you tap on it? Its shell appears to be like the one in Zen2 and Monk+, which has an empty resonating chamber that adds reverb to the sound. It adds an unnatural coloration to unamplified acoustic instruments such as in classical music.


try PureSounds PS500 classical vs pop version


----------



## flamesofarctica

ira delphic said:


> I recently purchased the HP650, in part based on the above (pre-update)  review. Lucky for me I'm not a bass head, and love a neutral sounding earbud that doesn't need EQ adjustment. Heck, one of my favorite earbuds is the **** PT15, which I sometimes refer to as the "treble monster" (which is a slight exaggeration).  I've had the HP650 for a couple of weeks and am very pleased with it. So what's the takeaway from this? Our tastes can change over time and life is too short to stick with an earbud that doesn't provide our optimal sq.




Same (apart from the **** which is a bit much for me!)

Still @vapman's is a good and valid review, and one I'd still base my purchase on now, as I like a fairly neutral laid back sound so to me it's still a 5 star. Fair play to him also for thinking to go back and update.

Another takeaway might be though, to go off the descriptions and not just the final star rating when reading a review, as there was and is so much to take from that review even though it's now a four star. But a further may be to wait for some final verdicts before rushing in (luckily worked out this time!)

I'll be leaving the Puresounds earbuds til the reviews have settled down and overall verdicts are in, same with the new Blox... time to try resisting temptation for a month or two! (unless VE release the Nirvana then all bets may be off)


----------



## vapman

To be fair: I do still like TY 650, although it's not top 5 material for me (too laid back & can be boring compared to others but still top tier detailing and balance). Once i  realized I had given it a 5 star in the past I realized it has too many faults to be an honest 5 star.
  
 Also, @rkw no microphonics in the shell either or i would have mentioned it


----------



## boblauer

@joyboy do you have a contact or way to order from Crow Audio, I'm interested in finding out about the raven.


----------



## rkw

boblauer said:


> @joyboy do you have a contact or way to order from Crow Audio, I'm interested in finding out about the raven.


 
 They are on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CrowsDen/


----------



## boblauer

rkw said:


> They are on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CrowsDen/


 
 Thank you, seems to be the de-facto standard for these small DIY companies but wanted to ask to be sure.


----------



## flamesofarctica

vapman said:


> To be fair: I do still like TY 650, although it's not top 5 material for me (too laid back & can be boring compared to others but still top tier detailing and balance). Once i  realized I had given it a 5 star in the past I realized it has too many faults to be an honest 5 star.




Still a great review btw, but yep it takes a while to see where something fits in the bigger picture to your own preferences and need to adjust sometimes.

I've been caught out thinking something was fantastic, buying a couple of spares, and then in the post comes something that blows it away. Is why I'm broke and my family get great gifts:-D


----------



## Joy Boy

boblauer said:


> @joyboy do you have a contact or way to order from Crow Audio, I'm interested in finding out about the raven.







rkw said:


> They are on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CrowsDen/



I think @rkw already gave you the right answer. You can contact them via their FB page. But i can't promise you they still have stock. From what i've heard they have some problem for driver stock (which is the old ve monk). Maybe you can ask them for Raven, their other line up


----------



## Townyj

joy boy said:


> I think @rkw already gave you the right answer. You can contact them via their FB page. But i can't promise you they still have stock. From what i've heard they have some problem for driver stock (which is the old ve monk). Maybe you can ask them for Raven, their other line up


 
  
 Have they got an email address by any chance..??


----------



## Joy Boy

townyj said:


> Have they got an email address by any chance..??



I'll ask him later. Then i'll tell you if i got some news


----------



## 1yaiba

Folks, I need your advice.
  
 For reference, here's what I listened to:
 - Fareal 64 v2 are really pleasant and transparent to me, maybe the most like my on-ear pair. They "scale up" well, for a lack of better word. My fave.
 - K's 64/white/ - Subtle punch while retaining decent clarity and stage. Okay to me, though picky of music genre and source.
 - Qian 25 are to me like "younger Fareal". Non-offensive, play nice with my phone.
 - Qian 39 are the most gosh darn *comfortable*, but just as disappointing. Lack detail/clarity, overwarmness, especially noticeable in something like piano. I'll keep them for books in bed.
  
*Q:* What are my options for trying "up" if I want something like Qian39 in *comfort*, but my preference for signature is like Q25's and Fareal's (more neutral and transparent, reduced highs)?


----------



## golov17

1yaiba said:


> Folks, I need your advice.
> 
> For reference, here's what I listened to:
> - Fareal 64 v2 are really pleasant and transparent to me, maybe the most like my on-ear pair. They "scale up" well, for a lack of better word. My fave.
> ...


mdr e808+


----------



## boblauer

golov17 said:


> mdr e808+




Yuin Pk2 if able to upbudget a bit. Comfy, detailed mid centric


----------



## 1yaiba

golov17 said:


> mdr e808+


 
  
  


boblauer said:


> Yuin Pk2 if able to upbudget a bit. Comfy, detailed mid centric


 
  
 Thanks for both suggestions. I'll try mdr e808+ first, to see if I'm okay with 16Ohm buds. (Small thing, because amp required for my 32Ohm on-ear ~= amp for 64Ohm earbud and I'm switching them around fairly often).


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

Just ordered the Yinman 150ohm because I couldn't resist the wooden housings!! Do they work best with or without foams?


----------



## golov17

zombiewinegum said:


> Just ordered the Yinman 150ohm because I couldn't resist the wooden housings!! Do they work best with or without foams?


with MP foams or Hiegi donuts


----------



## Saoshyant

Odd question time.  Does anyone with the Rose Masya have the capability of measure cable impedance?


----------



## vapman

zombiewinegum said:


> Just ordered the Yinman 150ohm because I couldn't resist the wooden housings!! Do they work best with or without foams?




With for sure. One of the few buds i prefer "normal" foams to the monk style foams on.


----------



## Mommerman

Just got the TY HI-Z 150 ohm... oh my god... sounds really nice. bass and clarity is just wonderful. use them with triple foamies, thereby taming the shrillness of female voices.
  
 By the way. I want to buy thick foams like the ones that come with the Monk+(thick), but I have enough of monks already. where do I get the foams, or what do I search for on eg Aliexpress.??


----------



## vapman

mommerman said:


> Just got the TY HI-Z 150 ohm... oh my god... sounds really nice. bass and clarity is just wonderful. use them with triple foamies, thereby taming the shrillness of female voices.
> 
> By the way. I want to buy thick foams like the ones that come with the Monk+(thick), but I have enough of monks already. where do I get the foams, or what do I search for on eg Aliexpress.??


 

 hiegi =)


----------



## Mommerman

I thought they only made donut foams. Well I'll give it a look  thanks


----------



## vapman

mommerman said:


> I thought they only made donut foams. Well I'll give it a look  thanks


 

 nope! in white and black, donut or full


----------



## notamethlab

I received the RY4S and the RY04. Burning them in as I type this, will share impressions when they are done


----------



## noknok23

I tried thin foam with my seahf 650 and dear do they sound beautiful with it! Everything become slightly smoother and warmer while keeping clarity. It's really a pleasure. VE should consider release ex pack on it's own...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

noknok23 said:


> I tried thin foam with my seahf 650 and dear do they sound beautiful with it! Everything become slightly smoother and warmer while keeping clarity. It's really a pleasure. VE should consider release ex pack on it's own...


 
 You can already buy an Ex-Pack by itself, it's $4.00.


----------



## vapman

Surprise from korea ✈✈ showed up FAST!!! @golov17
  
 I have to admit, even though i have some mid forward buds, the rec from mr. golov did not disappoint. I asked for overbearing amounts of in-your-face mids, and I got them, and I look like this -> 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  They are like **** PT15 but with the focus on mids instead of treble. It is a very unique sound. I don't know any bud like this. I like it.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Surprise from korea ✈✈ showed up FAST!!! [@=/u/404367/golov17]@golov17[/@]
> 
> I have to admit, even though i have some mid forward buds, the rec from mr. golov did not disappoint. I asked for overbearing amounts of in-your-face mids, and I got them, and I look like this ->
> 
> They are like **** PT15 but with the focus on mids instead of treble. It is a very unique sound. I don't know any bud like this. I like it.


nice


----------



## robervaul

Speaking of Korea, Has anyone tried these ?

 http://ixtin.com/ixtin/front/earphoneDetail.php?no=90


----------



## golov17

robervaul said:


> Speaking of Korea, Has anyone tried these ?
> 
> http://ixtin.com/ixtin/front/earphoneDetail.php?no=90


 after a long advertising campaign, they have, unfortunately, never came into production, as far as I know ..


----------



## rkw

> after a long advertising campaign, they have, unfortunately, never came into production, as far as I know ..


 
 Google "ixtin ev-2". It looks available here: http://www.earphoneshop.co.kr/shop/shopdetail.html?branduid=252188


----------



## Townyj

rkw said:


> Google "ixtin ev-2". It looks available here: http://www.earphoneshop.co.kr/shop/shopdetail.html?branduid=252188


 
  
 If you translate the page and go down the to comments, there are some recent purchase dates and peoples views about the quality etc.


----------



## Saoshyant

Just got in the DK-Song from our for sale forums, and pairing with the silver cable bought with **** PT15 vocals feel fairly forward with a respectable amount of bass.  For those who have the DK-Jin, bass presence is pushed forward but the vocals still take center stage at least on the album I'm testing it with.  Has enough bass for Trip Hop, but will feel lacking compared to E808+, so not at that level.  Sonically, the DK-Song is a good balance for vocals and bass, offering an MMCX connection if it's something you're interested in, as well as the wood housing if you're one after a nice look.  The relative size of the earbud is thick, so doesn't instantly disappear (comfort not size) into your ear like the Mojito/Masya does for me, but quickly disappears.


----------



## rkw

Various reviews of Ixtin EV-2 in Korean (Google translate works well):
  
 http://www.0db.co.kr/xe/REVIEW_USER/17130
 http://www.0db.co.kr/xe/REVIEW_0DB/13094
 http://www.0db.co.kr/xe/REVIEW_USER/17314
 http://www.0db.co.kr/xe/REVIEW_USER/17276


----------



## golov17

rkw said:


> Google "ixtin ev-2". It looks available here: http://www.earphoneshop.co.kr/shop/shopdetail.html?branduid=252188


 Oh, it's good  
http://mg.gmarket.co.kr/Search/Search?topKeyword=ixtin


----------



## robervaul

golov17 said:


> Oh, it's good
> http://mg.gmarket.co.kr/Search/Search?topKeyword=ixtin




Pull the trigger


----------



## alizeofeniquito

Can anyone compare k's 300, ty-hiz150 or yinman 150? Or recommend any 20-30usd high impedance earbud for my walnut v2.


----------



## vapman

Even though it is not particularly strong on bass, I can't stop listening to Ucotech EM905. The mids are wild. Kind of like an aurisonics 1 PLUS if i am not mistaken. 16 ohms, 14.8mm driver, 10-30k hZ response, 3 button + mic cable.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Even though it is not particularly strong on bass, I can't stop listening to Ucotech EM905. The mids are wild. Kind of like an aurisonics 1 PLUS if i am not mistaken. 16 ohms, 14.8mm driver, 10-30k hZ response, 3 button + mic cable.


any pics, plz


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> any pics, plz


----------



## golov17




----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


>


 
 not hpm64 driver?


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> not hpm64 driver?


 64, but with MP foam inside and silver plated cable


----------



## vapman

Another Ucotech pic. This could be a top 5 for me which is surprising to me as i usually don't like such a forward sound on the highs.


----------



## golov17

Brother ES903 without mic


----------



## vapman

I would like to put  a thicker cable on these and maybe inside the PK style housing, would be more comfortable.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> I would like to put  a thicker cable on these and maybe inside the PK style housing, would be more comfortable.


Do it  
btw, ordered B320


----------



## B9Scrambler

Picked these up for the heck of it. Figured it would be relevant to the thread. This is just a quick unboxing.


----------



## Nachash

Any new cheap earbud that came out recently?


----------



## golov17

nachash said:


> Any new cheap earbud that came out recently?


RY04s, Yinman64, DIY EMX50, K's300


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> RY04s, Yinman64, DIY EMX50, K's300


 
  
 I have all of those in my AliExpress wish list!  Ha!  
  
 --


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> I have all of those in my AliExpress wish list!  Ha!
> 
> --


 Ordered already


----------



## golov17

MDR E808+ very good cheap earbuds too


----------



## purplesun

Are there pictures of the insides of the yinman wood shell available on the internet? Or the insides of any wood earbuds?
  
 Am curious to see the internal construction. Thanks


----------



## jant71

What do we know of the DIY EMX50...


 Only $12.50 and I like the cable in the green


----------



## flamesofarctica

jant71 said:


> What do we know of the DIY EMX50...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Is it definitely green, because it looks very similar to this DIY bud from CKLewis on Ali which I posted about a while back:


----------



## jant71

Yep, appears to be the same though I saw it on another seller offering in brown and green cable colors. More Ali sellers picking it up seems a good sign though not much is really known yet. Still want to hear some useful sound impressions and if that cable is not too stiff.


----------



## flamesofarctica

jant71 said:


> Yep, appears to be the same though I saw it on another seller offering in brown and green cable colors. More Ali sellers picking it up seems a good sign though not much is really known yet. Still want to hear some useful sound impressions and if that cable is not too stiff.




My impressions here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/16395#post_13175847


----------



## jant71

Actually totally forgot I had indeed read that already! Actually didn't click together that they were probably the same model 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thanks!


----------



## Saoshyant

b9scrambler said:


> Picked these up for the heck of it. Figured it would be relevant to the thread. This is just a quick unboxing.




  
 I found them a little underwhelming at first, but I should give them a second shot as I have new daps to try with.  Gonna grab them right now.


----------



## B9Scrambler

saoshyant said:


> I found them a little underwhelming at first, but I should give them a second shot as I have new daps to try with.  Gonna grab them right now.


 
  
 The only thing that's really bothering me about them are the knife sharp housings. VSonic obviously didn't put much effort into the design or materials. This is some cheap feeling plastic... Sound wise I like them more than my Monk/Monk+ and MX470 which sells around here for nearly the same price. I find it leans towards the detailed, aggressive side with prominent, detailed treble. Quantity-wise bass falls a little short of the Monk. Mids are slightly forward and full of detail. Overall I'm enjoying the way they sound quite a bit, but are they worth 40 bucks? Ehhh...if they were somewhat ergonomic and used higher quality materials, sure.


----------



## Saoshyant

Right now I can't really give an objective view as I'm in a slight Honeymoon period with the DK Song I just got recently.  It's a little more expensive, but on a quick AB sounds clearer and more detailed with a decent enough bass for an earbud.  I'll just have to see what the VSonic pairs with best.


----------



## Nachash

golov17 said:


> RY04s, Yinman64, DIY EMX50, K's300


 

 Thanks, the first two were already in my cart. What's the sound signature of these? My favorite earbud is the Qian39


----------



## knudsen

nachash said:


> Thanks, the first two were already in my cart. What's the sound signature of these? My favorite earbud is the Qian39


 
 So you find them better than the SHE3800 - have you received the E808+? Qian39 my favourite too until now, waiting for these 2 others


----------



## Danneq

Perhaps it is time to share the earbud I received last Monday?

 Meet Diomnes Lv2:


  

 It comes with a leather strap with the ABnormal logo on it

  


 I waited to share my impressions. First I left it to Hersang of ABnormal. Then I wanted to see how it sounded like after 100 hours of burn in. Also, when i read that Diomnes batch 2 has already been sold out I didn't feel any rush...

 I bought the Lv2 version with Eidolic gun metal plug. That was $180 excluding shipping.

 Out of the box I thought that they sounded like how I would have wanted K's 500ohm to sound like. The soundstage is about as big as on that or on even CAX black. Bass impact wasn't as deep as on K500. There was some slight harshness in the upper mids, but not as much as on K500. After about 50 hours that had been reduced to a very slight tendency toward sibilance.This slight elevation of upper mids give the details a push and a nice sparkle to the music. At over 100 hours the sound has not changed much since 50+ hours.

 Overall, Diomnes Lv2 are just brilliant earbuds. The sound signature now is in the vein of Sennheiser MX985 and Red De'mun. I used to call Red De'mun a "baby MX985". Now I think I will have to call MX985 a "baby Diomnes Lv2". The soundstage is bigger and deeper than on MX985 & Red De'mun but the overall sound is not too different from them. MX985 is more neutral while Red De'mun and Diomnes Lv2 are more "fun" or "colored" sounding. But both Red De'mun and Diomnes Lv2 are both very transparent sounding.

 I have not compared them extensively to all of my earbuds, but I am confident that Diomnes Lv2 will easily come into my top 5.
 They almost have as big a soundstage and as good instrument separation as CAX black, but overall I prefer the more analogue sound of the Cypherus earbuds.
 This passage from a Headfonia review in 2011 comparing high end earbuds such as Yuin PK1 and Sennheiser MX980, has stuck with me:

 Quote:


> The Yuin takes the tonality of an analog, vacuum tube system. It’s treble relaxed and soft, the mids sweet and lush, good punch on the midbass, and not so much low bass.
> The MX980 takes a more straightforward, solid state personality. A more sparkly treble, better clarity on the midrange, and a more linear bass to the low frequencies.


 
  
  
 The Cypherus earbuds such as CampFred can be called analogue sounding while Diomnes Lv2, like MX980/985, have a more solid state personality.

 If I were to sum up CampFred and Diomnes Lv2, which play on around the same level, in 2 words each it would be:
 CampFred:musicality & immersiveness
 Diomnes Lv2: clarity & detail


 Both are just amazingly good. Like I wrote before, I prefer the more analogue sound of CampFred, but ABnormal have really got something special with Diomnes Lv2.


----------



## Townyj

danneq said:


> Perhaps it is time to share the earbud I received last Monday?
> 
> 
> I waited to share my impressions. First I left it to Hersang of ABnormal. Then I wanted to see how it sounded like after 100 hours of burn in. Also, when i read that Diomnes batch 2 has already been sold out I didn't feel any rush...




Damn dude those look rad my shell entry cable is about 1/8th the size haha.

Awesome impressions


----------



## Danneq

Does your pair have the same black cable as in the photos that has been posted here? That pair looks beautiful!

 At first I was a bit intimidated by the cable but it is more flexible than the one on CAX black. I think it's jsut slightly more stiff than the one on Red De'mun.


----------



## Townyj

danneq said:


> Does your pair have the same black cable as in the photos that has been posted here? That pair looks beautiful!
> 
> 
> At first I was a bit intimidated by the cable but it is more flexible than the one on CAX black. I think it's jsut slightly more stiff than the one on Red De'mun.




Mine is the Golden version the V2 like this one 



Mine isnt stiff at all from the earbuds to the splitter, very similar to my old Demun from the splitter down due to the sleeving.


----------



## Nachash

knudsen said:


> So you find them better than the SHE3800 - have you received the E808+? Qian39 my favourite too until now, waiting for these 2 others


 

 Yes I do, the SHE3800 are less defined than the Qian.
 No, I didn't received the E808+ yet. The postal service in Italy nowadays is even worse than before, I'm still waiting for stuff shipped in October (K's 64)


----------



## jant71

Speaking of Philips, anyone gonna try out the SHE3205 or 4205??


----------



## tinkertailor

nachash said:


> I'm still waiting for stuff shipped in October (K's 64)


 
 That's insane...are you sure it's still coming? imo 64's are worth the wait, I enjoy them quite a bit, but i haven't listened to a lot of the higher end buds


----------



## vapman

Hmm, for _at least me personally,_ the Ucotech 905 is edging out the Puresounds 600 ohm in a lot of A/B now that they both have a few hundred hours on them.


----------



## noxa

Anyone know anything about the vintage Sony E454?


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

vapman said:


> Hmm, for _at least me personally,_ the Ucotech 905 is edging out the Puresounds 600 ohm in a lot of A/B now that they both have a few hundred hours on them.


 
  
  
 More detailed comparison if you're not too busy


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Hmm, for _at least me personally,_ the Ucotech 905 is edging out the Puresounds 600 ohm in a lot of A/B now that they both have a few hundred hours on them.


 new favorite wife in the harem, cheers


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> Hmm, for _at least me personally,_ the Ucotech 905 is edging out the Puresounds 600 ohm in a lot of A/B now that they both have a few hundred hours on them.


 


golov17 said:


> new favorite wife in the harem, cheers


 
  
 The Emperor of Basskovia has been replaced by an imposter! There will be no stopping the treble zombies now!


----------



## golov17

purplesun said:


> The Emperor of Basskovia has been replaced by an imposter! There will be no stopping the treble zombies now!


go to ATH CM700Ti


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> The Emperor of Basskovia has been replaced by an imposter! There will be no stopping the treble zombies now!


 
 Even the Emperor needs something to listen to while ears are recovering from SZ2000 use


----------



## purplesun

golov17 said:


> go to ATH CM700Ti


 
  
 Nice!
 Is this sound signature in the same ballpark as the Creysn LMX700?
 IIRC, it was released about the same time as Sony E888 as a competing earbud.


----------



## golov17

purplesun said:


> Nice!
> Is this sound signature in the same ballpark as the Creysn LMX700?
> IIRC, it was released about the same time as Sony E888 as a competing earbud.


LMX700 mid-centric sig, but cm700 more v-sig


----------



## rkw

purplesun said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > go to ATH CM700Ti
> ...


 
  
 Whoa, bringing back memories... I owned both of them many years ago (1990's?). I remember the distinctive case of the E888:
  

  
 It was around that time when Yuin became available, and was a revelation for me. It's remarkable how well Yuin still holds up after so many years.


----------



## purk

rkw said:


> Whoa, bringing back memories... I owned both of them many years ago (1990's?). I remember the distinctive case of the E888:
> 
> 
> 
> It was around that time when Yuin became available, and was a revelation for me. It's remarkable how well Yuin still holds up after so many years.


 
  
 I love my E888s and still have five of them relatively unused.  I need to replace the stock cable and bring out better performance from them.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> Hmm, for _at least me personally,_ the Ucotech 905 is edging out the Puresounds 600 ohm in a lot of A/B now that they both have a few hundred hours on them.


 
 In what sense does the UCOTECH 905 edge out against he Puresounds 600? Clarity? Detail?
  
 And what is the overall sound sig of the 905? Will it please the treble head within me?
  
@golov17 how does the 905 compare to Yinman 500?

 EDIT: Where can I find them too? Ebay? Gmarket (Is it safe?)


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> In what sense does the UCOTECH 905 edge out against he Puresounds 600? Clarity? Detail?
> 
> And what is the overall sound sig of the 905? Will it please the treble head within me?
> 
> ...


 
 Gmarket is legit, no problems with using them. The general sound sig is comparable to the **** PT15 but with the focus on mids and upper mids instead of treble as with the PT15. I don't know if it will satisfy the treble head in you since I don't find them too bright. However I can't think of any other bud that has such a forward upper midrange and sound good doing it.
  
 I think Puresounds 600 is better at clarity and detail during stuff where details might often get left out in a lot of other buds. Ucotech 905 is comparable to PT15 in a lot of ways but mainly moved the focus from treble to mids. I think Puresounds 600 will be more acceptable to more people as the 905 sound is pretty specific and unique.
  
 P.S. You can EQ up 905's bass a good amount. wish i could push it a little more but it does well.


----------



## golov17

G-Market use PayPal, es903 have same drivers like to em905


----------



## purplesun

rkw said:


> Whoa, bringing back memories... I owned both of them many years ago (1990's?). I remember the distinctive case of the E888:


 


purk said:


> love my E888s and still have five of them relatively unused.  I need to replace the stock cable and bring out better performance from them.


 
  
 Yeah, the Cresyn LMX700 (and it's replacement, which I forget) is the nearest thing to the E888 sound these days. I recently bought some LMX700es from taobao.
 It was like getting back with an old girlfriend, who hasn't changed at all since I last dated her more than 15 years ago! 
  
_[_... _must resist playing Same Old Lang Syne song]_


----------



## vapman

purk said:


> I love my E888s and still have five of them relatively unused.  I need to replace the stock cable and bring out better performance from them.


 
 Don't get rid of them. I am getting some premade cables from Taobao as well as some Demun custom DIY cables. Soon I will buy some Cardas litz equivalent to do my Asura 2.0 and Sony E828 (to be honest I slightly prefer this sound)


----------



## rkw

> Originally Posted by *purplesun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Yeah, the Cresyn LMX700 (and it's replacement, which I forget) is the nearest thing to the E888 sound these days. I recently bought some LMX700es from taobao.
> It was like getting back with an old girlfriend, who hasn't changed at all since I last dated her more than 15 years ago!
> ...


 
  
 I'm not familiar with Creslyn LMX700, so I Googled it. Funny to see it dig up head-fi threads from 15 years ago and people were trying to use Babelfish to read Korean websites (Google translate didn't exist yet). How times have changed and yet remain the same — they were just as fanatical about this hobby back then.


----------



## Raketen

cocolinho said:


> hey all,
> currently enjoying my TY HP400s out of my LG V10.
> I really like what I'm hearing but I would like a bit more clarity & more energy in the upper mids without sacrifying bass & full lower mids. Any recommandation?
> I'm not sure that HP650 would be the right path, currently leaning toward K's 500 instead. I'm also thinking about Shozy Stardust/BK but I'm afraid it won't have enough bass for my taste (currently have Cygnus --> not enough bass)
> Thanks




Stardust with full foams seem fairly bassy to me (for earbuds at least), I haven't messed with EQ though, little wary of ruining them since they give me "easy to drive, easy to blow out" vibes.

 It seems like you might be on the hunt for something a bit V-ish though.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> Gmarket is legit, no problems with using them. The general sound sig is comparable to the **** PT15 but with the focus on mids and upper mids instead of treble as with the PT15. I don't know if it will satisfy the treble head in you since I don't find them too bright. However I can't think of any other bud that has such a forward upper midrange and sound good doing it.
> 
> I think Puresounds 600 is better at clarity and detail during stuff where details might often get left out in a lot of other buds. Ucotech 905 is comparable to PT15 in a lot of ways but mainly moved the focus from treble to mids. I think Puresounds 600 will be more acceptable to more people as the 905 sound is pretty specific and unique.
> 
> P.S. You can EQ up 905's bass a good amount. wish i could push it a little more but it does well.


 
 So am I correct that they sound somewhat similar to the Shozy Cygnus? And how is the soundstage?
  
 Thank-you
  


golov17 said:


> G-Market use PayPal, es903 have same drivers like to em905


 
 Ah I see I see. How do they compare to the Yinman 500?

 Thank-you


----------



## Joy Boy

danneq said:


> Perhaps it is time to share the earbud I received last Monday?
> 
> 
> Meet Diomnes Lv2:
> ...







townyj said:


> Mine is the Golden version the V2 like this one
> 
> 
> 
> Mine isnt stiff at all from the earbuds to the splitter, very similar to my old Demun from the splitter down due to the sleeving.



Wow, V2 and V2 Lv.2.
Great review and comparison.
I only had V1 with viablue-gold plated jack, and it's already amazing sound.

-------------------------------------------------

And i still waiting for official review of puresound 600 from mr.justin.
I got my eyes for this bud


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> So am I correct that they sound somewhat similar to the Shozy Cygnus? And how is the soundstage?
> 
> Thank-you
> 
> ...


 
 They have better bass and a more forward sound than the Cygnus. I think the Cygnus is only really better in channel separation.
  
 BTW one big thing I forgot to mention is the Ucotech can beat the Puresounds 600 when used directly with a DAP. With a player that has enough power or an amp, the Puresounds really comes alive then and then it isn't much of a contest. With the Walnut they are good because that gives them enough power. Something like the Xduoo X3 can drive the Puresounds 600 loud enough, but not with enough power for it to shine.
  
 edit: even though the Ucotech has more bass than the Cygnus, the Qian39 on the same settings is a heck of a lot bassier than either. Well amped Puresounds 600 is not too far behind.
  
 edit 2: I might think the Ucotech has more in common with Qian25 than Cygnus... a good thing IMO


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> They have better bass and a more forward sound than the Cygnus. I think the Cygnus is only really better in channel separation.
> 
> BTW one big thing I forgot to mention is the Ucotech can beat the Puresounds 600 when used directly with a DAP. With a player that has enough power or an amp, the Puresounds really comes alive then and then it isn't much of a contest. With the Walnut they are good because that gives them enough power. Something like the Xduoo X3 can drive the Puresounds 600 loud enough, but not with enough power for it to shine.
> 
> ...


 
 Ah I see I see. Thanks a lot for the info mate!

 So the Puresound still rain supreme if properly driven. I think I will pass on the 905 then.The Cygnus was already what I considered somehwat foward sounding. Anything "more forward" and I'd probably say that it would be congested (save for that magical seahf v1 which I destroyed).

 Thank-you once again for the informative reply!


----------



## aoitenshi6509

I rarely listen to these two amazing Indonesian earbuds ....
 Kanzenoka Yin Yang (V1.2 I think) at the front and ELIbuds SABIA V1 at the back
  
 when they are connected to my Soundblaster E5 DAC, SABIA has the best double pedals impact, while Yin Yang has best impact on the mid-high, compared to SABIA
 I was listening to Disturbed's song from Believe album (well, I listen to metal songs for 70% of my day  )
  
 which one is better? I would say they have their pros and cons


----------



## Nachash

jant71 said:


> Speaking of Philips, anyone gonna try out the SHE3205 or 4205??


 
 I'm interested on the 3205 as well, same for the Sony STH30 
  


tinkertailor said:


> That's insane...are you sure it's still coming? imo 64's are worth the wait, I enjoy them quite a bit, but i haven't listened to a lot of the higher end buds


 
 Ya, they're coming. Probably in February.


----------



## vapman

nachash said:


> I'm interested on the 3205 as well, same for the Sony STH30
> 
> Ya, they're coming. Probably in February.


 
 Maybe it depends on the destination country, but ali sellers all have a timeframe where delivery is guaranteed or you can get your money back.


----------



## Nachash

vapman said:


> Maybe it depends on the destination country, but ali sellers all have a timeframe where delivery is guaranteed or you can get your money back.


 

 I'm extending the purchase protection because of that...
 I'm waiting for some other stuff too, bought during the 11.11 sale


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

There is a Ucotech ES1003, Have anyone one heard if it?


----------



## KcLKcL

What is an upgrade from TY HI-Z 32? With the same soundsig but more refined sounds

Budget is $30


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Quick update:

 For those of you who remembered, a few weeks ago, I decided to received my brand new SeaHF 320Ohm drivers from Taobao and proceeded to revive my dead earbuds. One of those earbuds was the SeaHF 320Ohm V2. As one can see from the picture below:​  ​ ​ The shell of the 320Ohm V2 (black) had some tuning foam (?) applied to it whilst the V1 (white) does not. Initially, using the drivers without foam backing as indicated below:​ ​ I got a similar sound signature to the to the SeaHF 320Ohm V1 (white shell, which housed the drivers with the foam backing). I guess this makes sense when you think about it as using a driver with foam backing in a "clean shell" will provide similar results to using a "clean driver" in a shell with foam (black).​  ​ Hence today I decided to remove the black foam from the shell of the 320Ohm V2 and noticed an immediate change in sound signature. For one, they sounded less intimate, _*vocals was slightly recessed_, the soundstage widened and deepened considerably, whilst the overall sound signature became more relaxed as to me separation and details were somewhat "smoothed over".  ​  ​ In comparison with the newly recabled and "redrivered" SeaHF 320Ohm V1, it sounds more relaxed whilst the former sounded brighter, more aggressive, narrower staged, more forward, better detailed.
  ​ All in all, the magic which was the original SeaHF 320Ohm V1 will never again be recreated.​  ​  ​ Recabled and Redrivered 320Ohm V1:​ ​  ​ Recabled and redrivered V2:​ ​  
(All cables were hand braided from a single strand)​  
  
 ​ Edit: *BugBro mentioned that the drivers with foam backing has better vocal performance, so maybe that would explain why removing the black foam slightly recessed he vocals.
  
 By no means is the V2 now inferior to the V1, just different. The trade offs for a larger and deeper staging is personally considered to be minimal.


----------



## JASru

I finally got some time with K's 300ohm. 

 Unlike some ppl here I was really enjoying K's 64 and decided to try their upper model, while refraining from their 500's due to controversal feedback (good performing but very fatigueing).

 I am not a master of review, but I should not following - the 300's are indeed good.
 Given enough power - they are extremely good.

 Being straightforward I should say there are two major cons:
 1) Cable is so bad it makes me wanna cry and weep. The plastic number&brand tag on it feels like a suicide note.
 2) They need power. I mean don't even bother getting them without amp.
  
 Given the initial low price it feels weird. They are made cheap to be affordable, but they are anavailable for ppl who want to get "bang for the buck because" of technical constraints.

 Anyway, talking about the sound - it is quite balanced, with recessed sub-bass, while bass is good (no massage to my eardrums, no matter what foams I used
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). Maybe a fix proposed earlier in this thread - removing some dampening - will help, but I haven't tried this one yet.Vocals are pretty much "in your face type", while treble is not getting sibilant, but clearly would be too much for some (less than PT15 though).
 Testing it with Diana Krall, Motorhead, Zero 7, Johny Cash and some other artists I haven't figured a genre it really sucks at.
  
 As stories tell there are two genres that **** up majority of the earphones and crush your honeymoon with them - classic and metal (complex one). Well, this one is no exception. So I tried hi-rez classical (Rachmaninov) and yep, it was too much for this bud. Then I tried Dragonforce and Gaia Epicus... No comments.
  
 The staging is pretty average imo. Overall it feels pretty immersive, balanced in signature. 
 Can I recommend it?
 Well, if you are in search for ONE-BUD-TO-RULE-THEM-ALL... No.
 If you want something peculiar  - go on, this one is surely worth notice.

 P/s/ 500's on the shopping list for next weekend =D
 P/p/s want to know what I mean by complex? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG7Rl3qxUqY 
 P/p/p/s I am not affilated with any of vendors and bought it with my own money.


----------



## Willber

kclkcl said:


> What is an upgrade from TY HI-Z 32? With the same soundsig but more refined sounds
> 
> Budget is $30


 
  
 Simple - TY Hi-Z 150, about $20.


----------



## vapman

Since getting a XDuoo X3 again (finally own a gold one, and yes Rockbox does sound nicer to me) I was listening to a lot of buds I got while I didn't have it. The Qian25 sure is a weird one. It sounds great, but even with +8dB bass boost on the X3, the bass still hits deeper and seemingly stronger from the Qian39 with no EQ. I still love it though. It is hard to recommend the price of the Puresounds 600 after hearing the $7 Qian39. The 39 is a great choice for modding, and I imagine the 25 is as well. But, the Qian25 is so cheap and the Puresounds 600 is so expensive. When you buy the Qian25 you can rest assured you have probably 80-85% of what the Puresounds 600 has to offer. (The 15-20% improvement on the Puresounds is mainly in bass depth and overall speed/clarity compared to Qian25) yet I find the Qian25 to be good enough I may rather use it depending on the source.


----------



## purplesun

jasru said:


> As stories tell there are two genres that **** up majority of the earphones and crush your honeymoon with them - classic and metal (complex one). Well, this one is no exception. So I tried hi-rez classical (Rachmaninov) and yep, it was too much for this bud. Then I tried Dragonforce and Gaia Epicus... No comments.
> 
> P/p/s want to know what I mean by complex? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG7Rl3qxUqY


 
  
 Thanks for this tip - I did not know this. I will have to include this 2 genres into my own earbud tests.
 Sounded OK on E808+. Decent guitars/voices separation & uncompressed. What should a fail result sound like?
 Any more good examples from the 2 genres (though Rachmaninov is an easy find) on youtube?
 Thanks.
  
 EDIT:
 Just tried the same song on 1More EO320 and know what fail sounds like now. Guitars/drums just becomes a messy lump of sound. I think mid/treble clarity and good staging width is needed to play this well. Thanks again for this tip.


----------



## notamethlab

audionewbi3 said:


> Quick update:
> 
> 
> For those of you who remembered, a few weeks ago, I decided to received my brand new SeaHF 320Ohm drivers from Taobao and proceeded to revive my dead earbuds. One of those earbuds was the SeaHF 320Ohm V2. As one can see from the picture below:​
> ...



What kind of plug are you using? It looks very nice.


----------



## notamethlab

purplesun said:


> Thanks for this tip - I did not know this. I will have to include this 2 genres into my own earbud tests.
> Sounded OK on E808+. Decent guitars/voices separation & uncompressed. What should a fail result sound like?
> Any more good examples from the 2 genres (though Rachmaninov is an easy find) on youtube?
> Thanks.



Not of either genre but, Muse - Madness is a good song to test separation, detail, and overall soundstage  
https://youtu.be/Ek0SgwWmF9w


----------



## JASru

purplesun said:


> Thanks for this tip - I did not know this. I will have to include this 2 genres into my own earbud tests.
> Sounded OK on E808+. Decent guitars/voices separation & uncompressed. What should a fail result sound like?
> Any more good examples from the 2 genres (though Rachmaninov is an easy find) on youtube?
> Thanks.


 Well, calling it a failure is highly subjective, but for me it is when separation is lacking and instruments start to overlap each other (like voices on eastern bazaar). Same applies, if I start to miss details I can perceive with another model. These genres may be considered difficult to reproduce due to complex layering, multiple rhytms and variery of instruments used. It isn't like these are the most complex, but these are quite common in preference and , again, quite complex. Some psybient, psychill, mouse and glitch may be even more complex, but it isn't very popular. Even less popular if you limit it to earbuds 

For complex classical music - try Schnitke. For metal - Dragonforce, Gaia Epicus. For glitch - my personal favorite Cryptex (try "Go").
Just in case - I am just saying my opinion, yours' may differ and it is perfectly fine.


----------



## purplesun

jasru said:


> Well, calling it a failure is highly subjective, but for me it is when separation is lacking and instruments start to overlap each other (like voices on eastern bazaar). Same applies, if I start to miss details I can perceive with another model. These genres may be considered difficult to reproduce due to complex layering, multiple rhytms and variery of instruments used. It isn't like these are the most complex, but these are quite common in preference and , again, quite complex. Some psybient, psychill, mouse and glitch may be even more complex, but it isn't very popular. Even less popular if you limit it to earbuds
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Was updating my first post when you replied:
 "Just tried the same song on 1More EO320 and know what fail sounds like now. Guitars/drums just becomes a messy lump of sound. I think mid/treble clarity and good staging width is needed to play this well. Thanks again for this tip."
  
 I think my son listens to this kind of frantic-pace electronic arrangements. No wonder he "stole" all my E808+ when he was back home for Xmas holiday.
  


notamethlab said:


> Not of either genre but, Muse - Madness is a good song to test separation, detail, and overall soundstage
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 One of my "f-f-f-f-favorite" songs that I have not heard in a long time. 
 That pulsing bass loop will be crazy on my modded E808+
 Thanks for reminding.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Enjoying my comfy Penon Audio Earbud during a crisp walk today:
  

  
 --


----------



## tinkertailor

Hey guys, Heavenly Sounds is shipping to N.A. if anyone is interested. They quoted me 20 for shipping and they have a huge selection. I'd be interested but the shipping pops those out of my alotted budget ( i think i am trying to do 15 or less per bud). For those interested I've had success getting in touch with them on facebook, I haven't heard anything bad about even their entry buds. https://www.facebook.com/heavenlysoundsjkt/  Now if anyone is doing a bulk order...id be happy to go in , I just cant organize it  I think you would have to act fast on this though btw.


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> Since getting a XDuoo X3 again (finally own a gold one, and yes Rockbox does sound nicer to me) I was listening to a lot of buds I got while I didn't have it. The Qian25 sure is a weird one. It sounds great, but even with +8dB bass boost on the X3, the bass still hits deeper and seemingly stronger from the Qian39 with no EQ. I still love it though. It is hard to recommend the price of the Puresounds 600 after hearing the $7 Qian39. The 39 is a great choice for modding, and I imagine the 25 is as well. But, the Qian25 is so cheap and the Puresounds 600 is so expensive. When you buy the Qian25 you can rest assured you have probably 80-85% of what the Puresounds 600 has to offer. (The 15-20% improvement on the Puresounds is mainly in bass depth and overall speed/clarity compared to Qian25) yet I find the Qian25 to be good enough I may rather use it depending on the source.



Noted. I never found review about qian before (or maybe i didn't try hard enough to find it) so i have no interest on them before. But after read what you've written above, i got my eyes on them. 
So, maybe qian 25 and 39 is my next target


----------



## rkw

jasru said:


> As stories tell there are two genres that **** up majority of the earphones and crush your honeymoon with them - classic and metal (complex one).


 
  
 I've been caught a few times after buying an earbud that had been highly praised by multiple people — perhaps none of them listen to classical music.
  


purplesun said:


> Any more good examples from the 2 genres (though Rachmaninov is an easy find) on youtube?


 
  
 I was listening to this piece recently and think it is good for comparisons: Shostakovich Violin Concerto #1 (I especially like the 2nd movement, scherzo). It has several elements that will sound bad when reproduced poorly: solo violin, complex layered orchestration, and dissonant notes. If you compare on different headphones, strengths and weaknesses come through. But evaluate with a proper recording, not YouTube!
  

 This recording is on Spotify, but on a different album (concerto collection by Vengerov).
  
 Just throwing in this version here, sound could be better but a great performance with young Hilary Hahn in 2000.


----------



## JASru

For classical I use PT15 with full VE foams. Sounds great. Scales good with power.


----------



## purplesun

rkw said:


> I've been caught a few times after buying an earbud that had been highly praised by multiple people — perhaps none of them listen to classical music.


 


jasru said:


> For classical I use PT15 with full VE foams. Sounds great. Scales good with power.


 
  
 I think quite a few of the earbuds recommended here generally fall into the "fun" or "warm" categories which, IMO, may suppress some of the instruments in a classical performance.
  
 To be honest, I have the greatest respect for fans of classical music genre. I am not a fan myself, but have been to a few live concerts, in good venues, to realise that classical music is likely the most difficult music genre to reproduce accurately. Being able to capture the power of a symphony in full flow yet dig out tiniest subtleties of a quiet solo is a music system that's in the realm of the gods. It was in going to the these live classical performances that convinced me, many years ago, to stop chasing after the perfect music system for my home. That was a good day for my wife


----------



## AudioNewbi3

notamethlab said:


> What kind of plug are you using? It looks very nice.


 
 It's yongsheng, which is supposedly a Chinese subsidary of Neutrick. Cheap and excellent! 
  


rkw said:


> I've been caught a few times after buying an earbud that had been highly praised by multiple people — perhaps none of them listen to classical music.
> 
> 
> I was listening to this piece recently and think it is good for comparisons: Shostakovich Violin Concerto #1 (I especially like the 2nd movement, scherzo). It has several elements that will sound bad when reproduced poorly: solo violin, complex layered orchestration, and dissonant notes. If you compare on different headphones, strengths and weaknesses come through. But evaluate with a proper recording, not YouTube!
> ...




 For classical or orchestral works, I recommend the *senferPT15 and the ROSE MOJITO*. Why? because I mainly listen to orchestral and classical works myself, and I find these two, out of all the earbuds I own to perform the best when it comes to pieces like these.

 I do agree that most earbuds recommended here is of "warm" and "fun" sounding (although they are very good), which is sometimes unsuitable for pieces like these.


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> I think quite a few of the earbuds recommended here generally fall into the "fun" or "warm" categories which, IMO, may suppress some of the instruments in a classical performance.
> 
> To be honest, I have the greatest respect for fans of classical music genre. I am not a fan myself, but have been to a few live concerts, in good venues, to realise that classical music is likely the most difficult music genre to reproduce accurately. Being able to capture the power of a symphony in full flow yet dig out tiniest subtleties of a quiet solo is a music system that's in the realm of the gods. It was in going to the these live classical performances that convinced me, many years ago, to stop chasing after the perfect music system for my home. That was a good day for my wife


 
 Funny you say this because experiencing so many live shows has led me to be unsatisfied with the sound of nearly any headphone. Earbuds, my portapros and the two JVC SZ's are all I have that I feel can most accurately represent the sound of a real life performance in a proper venue. Listening to classical on SZs might be a little weird but I'd do it.


----------



## Nachash

jasru said:


> For classical I use PT15 with full VE foams. Sounds great. Scales good with power.


 

 The foams included are even better than the VE ones


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> Funny you say this because experiencing so many live shows has led me to be unsatisfied with the sound of nearly any headphone. Earbuds, my portapros and the two JVC SZ's are all I have that I feel can most accurately represent the sound of a real life performance in a proper venue. Listening to classical on SZs might be a little weird but I'd do it.


 
  
 From my system building days, what I remember is that classical music can never have enough power. No matter how much power I throw into the system, the music presentation gets better & better with it. The dynamic ranges of big musical pieces is pretty daunting, and it's about the only time I equate more power = better. Am not sure if this can be translated into DAPs & earbuds though.


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> From my system building days, what I remember is that classical music can never have enough power. No matter how much power I throw into the system, the music presentation gets better & better with it. The dynamic ranges of big musical pieces is pretty daunting, and it's about the only time I equate more power = better. Am not sure if this can be translated into DAPs & earbuds though.


 
 This is 100% why I always use high gain and powerful amps even when I don't need it. The more power I can use to achieve the same volume, the better it sounds.


----------



## luedriver

just got the blox b320 today and out of the box, I measured to see how they look like
  
 with the stock foams                                             without foams
  
(measured with pink noise)
  
 the only bad comments I can make is that the earbud has a bit of echo and the cable makes a sound inside the earbud, when I move my head, although it's less noticeable when listening to something


----------



## vapman

I wish there was an earbuds store where I could trade in my unused TY's for handfuls of Qian 25 and 39's.


----------



## AkashS04

Has someone used (or using) Sennheiser MX 375. Company mentioned that they are High performance dynamic drivers for powerful dynamic, Booming Bass. Are they really with Booming Bass?


----------



## Saoshyant

If a company says powerful booming bass, it's about as likely as cake that makes you lose weight.


----------



## AkashS04

Sennheiser has Good reputation in Audio and Earphones. One of their Earphones is USD 800 and I read that it is really good but as this is in ear, I don't wish to try as I know it won't be comfortable for me after few minutes of usage. I wanted to know if anyone has actually tries MX375 and how did he find it?


----------



## AkashS04

Did anyone tried Edifier H190? How it is?


----------



## Saoshyant

akashs04 said:


> Sennheiser has Good reputation in Audio and Earphones. One of their Earphones is USD 800 and I read that it is really good but as this is in ear, I don't wish to try as I know it won't be comfortable for me after few minutes of usage. I wanted to know if anyone has actually tries MX375 and how did he find it?


 
  
 Going to guess the earphones you're mentioning is the IE800 which I own.  That one yes has amazing sound quality.  The problem with saying booming mass for an earbud is functionally it's not a good design for bass production.  I've heard some earbuds with decent bass, and certainly enough to be enjoyable, but compared to some inexpensive IEMs, the amount of bass can be considered lacking.
  
 The main point of my post has to do with the fact that many headphone companies, even well respected ones like Sennheiser which I personally am a big fan of, will use buzzwords in order to help sell products.


----------



## Townyj

saoshyant said:


> Going to guess the earphones you're mentioning is the IE800 which I own.  That one yes has amazing sound quality.  The problem with saying booming mass for an earbud is functionally it's not a good design for bass production.  I've heard some earbuds with decent bass, and certainly enough to be enjoyable, but compared to some inexpensive IEMs, the amount of bass can be considered lacking.
> 
> The main point of my post has to do with the fact that many headphone companies, even well respected ones like Sennheiser which I personally am a big fan of, will use buzzwords in order to help sell products.


 
  
 There is some truth to this but...Really does depend on the fit and seal of the earbud, ive had plenty of bass from pretty much all of my earbuds. Also some iems with BA designs dont exactly have deep rumbling bass. Since moving to earbuds i highly doubt i will go back to headphones, the functionality wins in spades for me. Will keep a couple of iems for travel and thats about it.


----------



## Luan Dee

akashs04 said:


> Has someone used (or using) Sennheiser MX 375. Company mentioned that they are High performance dynamic drivers for powerful dynamic, Booming Bass. Are they really with Booming Bass?


 
  
 I had the MX375, but lost last month. From memory, Monks+ has more "boomy" bass, which I don't like as I prefer deep, tight bass presence. You can use EQ for more bass but dont expect deep bass. For me, the highs in MX375 is more pronounced and has better resolution compared to Monks+ and Remax303 that I had with it. Need to use foams to tame but you'll lose clarity in the highs when naked. I used it naked and EQed to my liking.
  
 Agree with Saoshyant's comments above.


----------



## music4mhell

akashs04 said:


> Did anyone tried Edifier H190? How it is?


Ok type ..below average..

I prefer 180 and 185 over 190


----------



## AkashS04

I did not mind Boomy Bass in Monk+. They are just Ok I guess.


----------



## AkashS04

Yes. I was talking abt IE800 only. Not sure how good is the quality that they prices it for $800. So which one of your earbuds has really booming and deep bass (query for both of you)? Edifier H190 is better than MX375 in terms of deep and boomy bass?


----------



## AkashS04

So 180 has more deep and boomy bass than 185 or 190? Is it so?


----------



## AkashS04

music4mhell said:


> Ok type ..below average..
> 
> I prefer 180 and 185 over 190


 
 There is one model P190 actually. Is that the one you liked or P180 only?


----------



## Joy Boy

akashs04 said:


> There is one model P190 actually. Is that the one you liked or P180 only?



190 has thin sound. I will definitely go for 180 or 185. "P" here means it has mic on it. For sound, the're sam with the one without "P"


----------



## AkashS04

Got it. So 180 has Boomy ad Deep Bass? Right? I wish I can try them before buying.


----------



## AkashS04

I recently bought RMEI earbuds from AliExpress and they looks almost similar to P/H180. They have good sound and bass (for me I need more though) and it seems they are the same with dffrnt name because their Earbud Cushions seems to be exactly same. Possible that the same manufacturing unit made both of them and selling other without Edifier name at low price ($3.5 only).


----------



## ATi7500

akashs04 said:


> Did anyone tried Edifier H190? How it is?


 
 It's a bad one. Have tried all three earbuds from Edifier, H180, H185 and H190. Out of a phone (Nexus 6), the best sounding one is the H185. H190 sounds muffled, low volume, not much bass.
  
 H180 is bass oriented, H185 is more balanced, big trebles, but not overly bright.
 Honestly I am not sure if H180 is the same earphone as Philips SHE3800 (it looks so), but from my memory, I was shocked (in a positive way) by SHE3800, and H180 sounded OK, but nothing extraordinary. H185 definitely has some distinctive character.


----------



## chinmie

i really like the H185.. small fitting size, sound is rather stable to movement and positioning (unlike the monk+, i have to fiddle with the placement on the ears for it to sound right), also, i can use it in moderately noisy environment with low volume, but still can hear lots of details from the songs, while still be able to hear/have conversation with people


----------



## AkashS04

So 180 is more Bassy and have deep bass? In what positive way you were shocked by Philip SHE3800?


----------



## ATi7500

akashs04 said:


> So 180 is more Bassy and have deep bass? In what positive way you were shocked by Philip SHE3800?


 
  
 If you're looking for bass, you won't be disappointed by Philips SHE3800 and Qian 39.


----------



## Saoshyant

ati7500 said:


> If you're looking for bass, you won't be disappointed by Philips SHE3800 and Qian 39.


 
  
 I'd put Sony e808+ ahead of Qian 39 in bass.  In the budget range, I can't think of anything better than the Sony for bass performance.


----------



## Townyj

Nabbed a pair of ABnormal Labs Dietris to add to my collection  Shall see how the 300ohm buds perform when they arrive.


----------



## AkashS04

Is Sony E808+ like Earpods? Or normal Earbuds?


----------



## AkashS04

I am planning to buy Qian39. Let me see if I an order. From Qian39 and SHE3800, which is better in terms of Bass and Warm sound signature?


----------



## Ira Delphic

joy boy said:


> townyj said:
> 
> 
> > Diomnes in the house!!
> ...


 
  
 Which of the above manufacture their own voice coils/drivers (as opposed to re-tuning off the shelf earbud drivers)? My guess:
  

Cypherus
Crow
Heavenly Sound


----------



## zabunny94

ira delphic said:


> Which of the above manufacture their own voice coils/drivers (as opposed to re-tuning off the shelf earbud drivers)? My guess:
> 
> 
> Cypherus
> ...




Pretty sure Elibuds is using their own voice coil(outsourced of course), but since there's 3 version of it, i guess the source of their driver kinda inconsistent

And pretty sure that cypherus just re-tune from other brands. Since the campfred model is using the same driver and shell as "Advance" earbuds. Come to think of it, i reckon there's drama in earbud lovers Indonesia group surrouding Campfred because its using said driver last year, not really sure though since I wasn't a fan of earbud at that time so i didn't dig deeper. Idk what driver that other model is using though

Also pretty sure crow is just a re-tuned old monk


----------



## Willber

akashs04 said:


> I am planning to buy Qian39. Let me see if I an order. From Qian39 and SHE3800, which is better in terms of Bass and Warm sound signature?


 

 As already mentioned, the E808+ has deeper bass than those two.


----------



## Townyj

zabunny94 said:


> Pretty sure Elibuds is using their own voice coil(outsourced of course), but since there's 3 version of it, i guess the source of their driver kinda inconsistent
> 
> And pretty sure that cypherus just re-tune from other brands. Since the campfred model is using the same driver and shell as "Advance" earbuds. Come to think of it, i reckon there's drama in earbud lovers Indonesia group surrouding Campfred because its using said driver last year, not really sure though since I wasn't a fan of earbud at that time so i didn't dig deeper. Idk what driver that other model is using though
> 
> Also pretty sure crow is just a re-tuned old monk


 
  
 This is interesting if its all true... hmmmm


----------



## boblauer

Crow is a re-tuned Monk V1. This is why the Crow is no longer available, no idea what the new Raven model uses.


----------



## Danneq

Edimun V3 & Red De'mun are retuned Edifier H180. I can honestly say that except for CAX black and Diomnes Lv2, CampFred are the best sounding earbuds I have heard, and I have owned pretty  much all TOTL earbuds (excluding Zen 2 black & Shozy Stardust).
 By the way, now Diomnes Lv2 are close to sharing second place with CampFred. Truly amazing sounding earbuds!

 This is if I include Blox TM7, Aiwa HP V99 & D9, Sony MDR E252, 282 & 484 plus all TOTL earbuds I own or have owned: Zen 1 & 2, Rose Mojito, Celsus Gramo One, Dunu Alpha 1, Astrotec Lyra, Sennheiser MX980/985/OMX980 etc etc etc.

 Some ancient black magick must have been used to make a pair of retuned budget earbuds almost as full sounding as my Audio Technica ES10 portable headphones (plus having better detail and instrument layering).


----------



## mochill

VE is house made


----------



## AkashS04

willber said:


> As already mentioned, the E808+ has deeper bass than those two.


 
 Ok. I will try that one. Need to see where it is available.


----------



## Willber

akashs04 said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > As already mentioned, the E808+ has deeper bass than those two.
> ...


 
  
 I posted a link for you when I (and others) advised you to by them three months ago.


----------



## noxa

Danneq as the clear vintage earbud guru around here do you know anything about the Sony 454?


----------



## Danneq

noxa said:


> Danneq as the clear vintage earbud guru around here do you know anything about the Sony 454?


 

 I used to own a pair of E464 or E454. I am not sure which one it was. It was okay. Around the same level as something like Yuin PK2. I have sold both, though...


----------



## noxa

danneq said:


> I used to own a pair of E464 or E454. I am not sure which one it was. It was okay. Around the same level as something like Yuin PK2. I have sold both, though...




Thank you Danneq, so not particularly worth seeking out then.


----------



## Danneq

Well, it's probably much cheaper than E484 or E282. The prices of those two have inflated to silly proportions. About 5-6 years ago when I bought them, they were $200-300, but now it's at least twice that. My favorite vintage Sony is E252 which was the first high end earbud released in 1982. I think Sony E252 beat Aiwa's V2 by one month or so. Or if it was the other way around.
 I think there still is an E252 for sale here on Head fi. It was close to $200 but that is an okay price for an over 30 year old TOTL earbud if it is in okay condition.


----------



## noxa

danneq said:


> Well, it's probably much cheaper than E484 or E282. The prices of those two have inflated to silly proportions. About 5-6 years ago when I bought them, they were $200-300, but now it's at least twice that. My favorite vintage Sony is E252 which was the first high end earbud released in 1982. I think Sony E252 beat Aiwa's V2 by one month or so. Or if it was the other way around.
> 
> I think there still is an E252 for sale here on Head fi. It was close to $200 but that is an okay price for an over 30 year old TOTL earbud if it is in okay condition.




Yeah I actually really wanted that E252 on here but was a bit concerned about the slight condition issue it had and just the general worry of buying something of that age to actually use as o wouldn't have it collecting dust, I'd be using it at least a few hours a week. I think I want the nostalgia of the vintage earbud, good memories of the old Walkman.


----------



## Fabi

danneq said:


> By the way, now Diomnes Lv2 are close to sharing second place with CampFred. Truly amazing sounding earbuds!


 
 What makes them now closer to your second place?


----------



## Danneq

fabi said:


> What makes them now closer to your second place?




Probably that I have given them more time. They are in the vein of Sennheiser MX985 and while they are not as neutral as MX985 they leave MX985 in the dust when it comes to soundstage width and depth, detail and instrument layering. I'm starting to warm up more to the sound. CampFred is more laid back and details do not pop out in the same way as on Diomnes Lv2. But in a way details are more integrated in the music on CampFred. Both are really great. And CAX black beat both...


----------



## springbay

Edimun V3 Rhodium and Red Demun arrived today.
  
 Red Demun sound great right out of the box.
  
 Edimun were kind of underwhelming though. They sound a bit dirty and not at all refined like I had expected, lacking distinct bass and with rolled of highs and poor micro detail. I'm using the full foams with four holes.
  
 Wise from my experience with the Box B320 that changed signature significantly during first 10-15 hours of use, I'm wondering will the Edimuns change as well?


----------



## vapman

springbay said:


> Edimun V3 Rhodium and Red Demun arrived today.
> 
> Red Demun sound great right out of the box.
> 
> ...


 
 Same feelings about the edimun, let them burn in a little. Really matters. Red Demun sounds killer right away. After only about  day of burn in, edimun starts to sound amazing.


----------



## Fabi

Okay thanks @Danneq
  
 Yeah I guess the same thing, the more time you give them, the more you absorb their sound.
  
 Btw, after having had the chance to try Stardust, the pair I have ordered is coming hopefully this week.
 After reading your Campfred's review for the half-dozen time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, I found this characteristic below, quite the same as on Stardust and also that they have to be heard on low or medium volume at max. On (very) high volume, it was not good.
  
  


danneq said:


> But in a way details are more integrated in the music on CampFred.


 
 This is the kind of sound I've never heard in a pair of earbuds before, I loved this coherence and resolution, that's why I pulled the trigger on Stardust.
  
  
 Then, we'll see. If the wallet allows it, Campfred may be my new friend as well.


----------



## Danneq

fabi said:


> Okay thanks @Danneq
> 
> 
> Yeah I guess the same thing, the more time you give them, the more you absorb their sound.
> ...




And Stardust will probably be my new friend later in the spring.

But you really should give Diomnes a try also if you have the chance!


----------



## Fabi

Yes I know. Diomnes lv2 is the second one on my list, maybe later. Then there are the upcoming flagships.


----------



## Joy Boy

ira delphic said:


> Which of the above manufacture their own voice coils/drivers (as opposed to re-tuning off the shelf earbud drivers)? My guess:
> 
> 
> Cypherus
> ...







townyj said:


> This is interesting if its all true... hmmmm



There are 2 brands that i'm very sure build their own driver. Elibuds and the Raid by Laki Audio. All of its line up using hand-made driver, not modded/re-tuned.

Kanzenoka maybe used their own driver too. And the tol line of abnormal, the dipios used their own driver. But it should diacontinued its production due too lact of some part for its driver.

Crow and diomnes used re-tuned and modded driver (old monk).

Red demun and edimun used retuned and modded edifier h180.

Cypherus is kinda controversial because they used advance driver, it's a local brand (for campfred and qfred, i dont know about cy-ax)

I cant say anything about heavenly sound because they have a lot of line up. And it's kinda controversial too. Only one builder and they can made that many line up in such short period of time. So, no comment


----------



## Joy Boy

springbay said:


> Edimun V3 Rhodium and Red Demun arrived today.
> 
> Red Demun sound great right out of the box.
> 
> ...







vapman said:


> Same feelings about the edimun, let them burn in a little. Really matters. Red Demun sounds killer right away. After only about  day of burn in, edimun starts to sound amazing.



Give it some time to burn in. Out of the box, red demun is so great. But the edimun will show it's true form after burning


----------



## tinkertailor

> Red demun and edimun used retuned and modded edifier h180.


 
 I've said/asked it before, but it would be very cool to know how you retune a driver. It would be very awesome to buy a $3 or cheap bud and tune it to be an amazing boutique bud at home. I guess know one here knows how they do it?


----------



## Joy Boy

tinkertailor said:


> I've said/asked it before, but it would be very cool to know how you retune a driver. It would be very awesome to buy a $3 or cheap bud and tune it to be an amazing boutique bud at home. I guess know one here knows how they do it?



I think they have they're own tricks and ingredients. I.e. the de'mun cable, you cant find it in other shop.
And i remembered something that mr.woo (blox builder) said, even just the glue can influence the sound that come out from earbud. 
So i dont think someone besides the builder can produce the exactly same sound for that product. And i also think they will keep it as a secret, just to make it special and not mainstream


----------



## ballog

Do any of you earbud afficinados have any info about the new SeaHF 650ohm (light brown colored)?
 I'm really keen to upgrade my SeaHF 150ohm to the 650ohm (i am hoping the latter has better mids).


----------



## Danneq

joy boy said:


> Crow and diomnes used re-tuned and modded driver (old monk).


 
   
 Does Diomnes really use original Monk drivers? It really sounds hi fi and very far from what I remember from the original Monk. Great job by ABnormal!
  
  
 Quote:


joy boy said:


> Cypherus is kinda controversial because they used advance driver, it's a local brand (for campfred and qfred, i dont know about cy-ax)


 

 Are you sure that CampFred and QFred use the same driver? They sound quite different from each other. They share a similar signature sound in the same way as for example all MusicMaker/Toneking earbuds share a signature sound but still sound quite different from each other. But perhaps Tomahawk and Ting for example use the same drivers?


----------



## bloodyf8

hello earbudlover, im new here and new for earbud too im decided to buy my starter pack earbud for now im looking to Yuin PK3 vs Tonneking/music maker Tomahawk my musics are all rounder and prefer good in vokal and good in soundstage (bass doesnt matter for me) also i need a recomendation under 10$ earbud i have vemonk+ and edifier h180 and i wanna try another good sounds does ty hiz 32 is good enough or i should get edifier h185?


----------



## Joy Boy

danneq said:


> Are you sure that CampFred and QFred use the same driver? They sound quite different from each other. They share a similar signature sound in the same way as for example all MusicMaker/Toneking earbuds share a signature sound but still sound quite different from each other. But perhaps Tomahawk and Ting for example use the same drivers?



Yes. Diomnes v1 even still has ve mark on its housing. I dont know for v2, but they claimed there's no different between v1 and v2 except the color of the cable.

And for campfred i'm pretty sure. I dont know about the qfred. From what i've heard it also used advance driver, but different modifify technic and other parts (cable. Terminator, etc).

It just like other DIY earbud. Red demun and edimun used same driver but the sound is different. The crow, yhe raven, and diomnes used same driver but the sound sihn is totally different (i've ever had the crow and also diomnes).


----------



## JASru

bloodyf8 said:


> hello earbudlover, im new here and new for earbud too im decided to buy my starter pack earbud for now im looking to Yuin PK3 vs Tonneking/music maker Tomahawk my musics are all rounder and prefer good in vokal and good in soundstage (bass doesnt matter for me) also i need a recomendation under 10$ earbud i have vemonk+ and edifier h180 and i wanna try another good sounds does ty hiz 32 is good enough or i should get edifier h185?


 
 Qian 39, ty 32 and Philips SHE3800 would be good starters.


----------



## zabunny94

bloodyf8 said:


> hello earbudlover, im new here and new for earbud too im decided to buy my starter pack earbud for now im looking to Yuin PK3 vs Tonneking/music maker Tomahawk my musics are all rounder and prefer good in vokal and good in soundstage (bass doesnt matter for me) also i need a recomendation under 10$ earbud i have vemonk+ and edifier h180 and i wanna try another good sounds does ty hiz 32 is good enough or i should get edifier h185?




Get the h185 if you're looking for a clean vocal, sound wise its closer to monk+ than h180

Ty hi-z 32ohm is a very v-shaped buds. It is better than h185 build quality wise.

Looking at your username and profile pic, fan of Aimer and gundam, eh?


----------



## bloodyf8

jasru said:


> Qian 39, ty 32 and Philips SHE3800 would be good starters.


 
 thanks..im decided to buy 2 earbud one under 50$ and one under 10$,im still confusing to pick both of yuinpk3 and tomahawk


----------



## bloodyf8

zabunny94 said:


> Get the h185 if you're looking for a clean vocal, sound wise its closer to monk+ than h180
> 
> Ty hi-z 32ohm is a very v-shaped buds. It is better than h185 build quality wise.
> 
> Looking at your username and profile pic, fan of Aimer and gundam, eh?


 
 yeah haha still confusing about both of ty hiz32 and h185, also yuinpk3 and tomahawk
 lol, i was frustated to think my username so im pick one from my aimer collection song from my pc haha, yeah im bit fans of gundam 00 and Unicorn


----------



## Joy Boy

bloodyf8 said:


> hello earbudlover, im new here and new for earbud too im decided to buy my starter pack earbud for now im looking to Yuin PK3 vs Tonneking/music maker Tomahawk my musics are all rounder and prefer good in vokal and good in soundstage (bass doesnt matter for me) also i need a recomendation under 10$ earbud i have vemonk+ and edifier h180 and i wanna try another good sounds does ty hiz 32 is good enough or i should get edifier h185?



Pk3 may fit your requirements of sound. Or other contender: boarseman mx985, ath c909, hifan es100, etc. I dont think tomahawk is good enough if vocal is what you're searching for. It has metallic sound and a little sibilance for high pitch note.

For $10 eaebud, edifier h185 or th hiz 32ohm is good choice. Qian 25/39 seems nice. though i never tried it, i will someday


----------



## bloodyf8

joy boy said:


> Pk3 may fit your requirements of sound. Or other contender: boarseman mx985, ath c909, hifan es100, etc. I dont think tomahawk is good enough if vocal is what you're searching for. It has metallic sound and a little sibilance for high pitch note.
> 
> For $10 eaebud, edifier h185 or th hiz 32ohm is good choice. Qian 25/39 seems nice. though i never tried it, i will someday


 
 thanks..i will go with pk3 i just want to confirm if im pick the good one ,also pk3 a bit cheaper than tomahawk


----------



## JASru

bloodyf8 said:


> thanks..im decided to buy 2 earbud one under 50$ and one under 10$,im still confusing to pick both of yuinpk3 and tomahawk


 
 Well, I can't recommend Tomahawk, because it is very special. It is kinda rough. Not bad, but not my type.
 Never heard Yuin.


----------



## vapman

I didn't realize PK3 was cheaper than the Tomahawk now. Maybe i'll have to get it again (I used to have it almost 10 years ago... crazy)


----------



## music4mhell

bloodyf8 said:


> joy boy said:
> 
> 
> > Pk3 may fit your requirements of sound. Or other contender: boarseman mx985, ath c909, hifan es100, etc. I dont think tomahawk is good enough if vocal is what you're searching for. It has metallic sound and a little sibilance for high pitch note.
> ...


 
 You may increase the budget and buy Shozy Cygnus instead of buying many earbuds..


----------



## vapman

Cygnus remains to  date my favorite gaming earbud! Unbeatable channel  separation makes echolocation effortless.


----------



## Danneq

joy boy said:


> Yes. Diomnes v1 even still has ve mark on its housing. I dont know for v2, but they claimed there's no different between v1 and v2 except the color of the cable.
> 
> And for campfred i'm pretty sure. I dont know about the qfred. From what i've heard it also used advance driver, but different modifify technic and other parts (cable. Terminator, etc).
> 
> It just like other DIY earbud. Red demun and edimun used same driver but the sound is different. The crow, yhe raven, and diomnes used same driver but the sound sihn is totally different (i've ever had the crow and also diomnes).




Yeah, Red De'mun and Edimun do sound different.

I'm amazed that Monk drivers can sound so hi fi like in Diomnes. I didn't care much for the original Monk and prefer Monk+. But Diomnes continue to blow me away every day.


----------



## bloodyf8

music4mhell said:


> You may increase the budget and buy Shozy Cygnus instead of buying many earbuds..


 
 im use one at home and another cheaper one at on the go..


----------



## vapman

bloodyf8 said:


> im use one at home and another cheaper one at on the go..


 
 qian25 too


----------



## Joy Boy

music4mhell said:


> You may increase the budget and buy Shozy Cygnus instead of buying many earbuds..



Agree. Spent more money and jump to top of the line earbud, definitely will satisfy you.



danneq said:


> Yeah, Red De'mun and Edimun do sound different.
> 
> I'm amazed that Monk drivers can sound so hi fi like in Diomnes. I didn't care much for the original Monk and prefer Monk+. But Diomnes continue to blow me away every day.



I knew it when i bought second hand diomnes v1. It still has ve mark on its housing. Then i asked them and they confirmed it.
When they sent me demo unit of v2 lv.2 and dietris, i never guessed its original driver is old monk. It's too good to be true for my ears. They really did great job


----------



## vapman

joy boy said:


> Agree. Spent more money and jump to top of the line earbud, definitely will satisfy you.
> I knew it when i bought second hand diomnes v1. It still has ve mark on its housing. Then i asked them and they confirmed it.
> When they sent me demo unit of v2 lv.2 and dietris, i never guessed its original driver is old monk. It's too good to be true for my ears. They really did great job


 
 Kinda wish I had kept around more of my og monks for modding then!


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> Kinda wish I had kept around more of my og monks for modding then!



I'll say i regret for not keep them at least one too. I've ever had 7 of them, buy i gave them to my relatives or sold them out. Today i saw someone sold asura v1. I think i'll buy it eventhough i've ever had them twice before


----------



## purplesun

bloodyf8 said:


> all rounder and prefer good in vokal and good in soundstage (bass doesnt matter for me) also i need a recomendation under 10$ earbud i have vemonk+ and edifier h180 and i wanna try another good sounds does ty hiz 32 is good enough or i should get edifier h185?


 
 The current range of TY32 (L-plug, black or red cabled) versions has too much bass energy and can overwhelm the vocals. IMO, not quite suitable for vocal performance.
  
 IMHO, the K's 64ohm (white-cabled) has quite impressive vocal performance for a cheap earbud. The vocals never seem to be fazed with whatever is happening around it; almost tube-like in its delivery. Generally, K's 64ohm(white) has a similar sound signature as Monk+, with a brighter sound & slightly lacking in stage depth (a more cosy sound).


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> joy boy said:
> 
> 
> > Agree. Spent more money and jump to top of the line earbud, definitely will satisfy you.
> ...


 
 Luckily, i have 1 monk lying around


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> Luckily, i have 1 monk lying around


 

 Then you can make your own Diomnes Lv2!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Or perhaps send it to ABnormal and then they can custom make you a pair of Diomnes...


----------



## Fabi

danneq said:


> And Stardust will probably be my new friend later in the spring.
> 
> But you really should give Diomnes a try also if you have the chance!


 
 Speaking of chance, after some reflexion, actually you're my only chance to do so hahaha 
 More seriously, I don't feel currently the complete attraction to Diomnes for my sound preference and pairing with my setup.
  
  
  
  


danneq said:


> Then you can make your own Diomnes Lv2!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I still have three pairs of OG Monk, the very only earbuds I keep for collection. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 It can be an option to consider.


----------



## ryanjsoo

Just curious, what covers are you guys using on your 1more E1008's? Trying to balance high end detail with low end extension, so far, the stock silicone rings seem to be the best combo but would love to hear about any interesting combos. I didn't enjoy the sound with Hiegi's, it was too dark.


----------



## music4mhell

danneq said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Luckily, i have 1 monk lying around
> ...


 
 I am thinking of procuring Cardas cables and mod all my earbuds


----------



## zabunny94

uhhh... i still want to know the real reason behind og monk discontinuation. og monk and monk+ can coexist with each other since the sound signature doesn't overlapping each other, so why discontinue og monk?

is it because they can't get the driver anymore? or is this because of the feud with seahf guy or whatever guy that co-created monk with ve(heard from a rumor anyway, don't take my word for it)?


----------



## yacobx

zabunny94 said:


> uhhh... i still want to know the real reason behind og monk discontinuation. og monk and monk+ can coexist with each other since the sound signature doesn't overlapping each other, so why discontinue og monk?
> 
> is it because they can't get the driver anymore? or is this because of the feud with seahf guy or whatever guy that co-created monk with ve(heard from a rumor anyway, don't take my word for it)?




Two reasons 

One Lee wanted to prove he was the best 

Two he wanted people to see what the monk plus and RA plus were capable of doing when paired


----------



## Joy Boy

I dont know, in my opinion their old line up is better that the new one. 
Monk-asura-zen, i like the old one more. I think he should give more attention to new line up like nirvana or other than repeteadly launch monk+ colorful model


----------



## Saoshyant

@Joy Boy I get the feeling Lee is putting a lot of work in on Nirvana, but due to development taking time and a lack of ability to guess how long the process will take, he puts out color variants of the Monk+ to give us something to look forward to as well as make the customers happy.  Plus, there's a lot of us that buy every color variant.
  
 While I'm a fan of the original Monk, I also get the feeling that Lee is the type of person that once he's done with something, he won't go back to it and only looks forward.


----------



## Danneq

At first I did not like Monk+ but I soon learned to love it and prefer it to the original Monk. I hope that ABnormal can find more original Monk for Diomnes. Otherwise they need to develop a new version of Diomnes...

 I prefer Zen 1 to Zen 2 by far. Zen 2 is too warm sounding and colored sounding. Never heard Asura 1 but Asura 2 did not wow me so I soon sold it to Vapman...


----------



## music4mhell

I also prefer Monk+ over Monk.
Monk+ with mic is my daily driver for on the go with my oneplus one mobile..


----------



## zabunny94

yacobx said:


> Two reasons
> 
> One Lee wanted to prove he was the best
> 
> Two he wanted people to see what the monk plus and RA plus were capable of doing when paired




Still, they can do both of your point without discontinued og monk. I think the real reason is more about supply issue or maybe a feud... Otherwise he would keep milking og monk like monk+ ( i mean, how many color variation that he released?)



joy boy said:


> I dont know, in my opinion their old line up is better that the new one.
> Monk-asura-zen, i like the old one more. I think he should give more attention to new line up like nirvana or other than repeteadly launch monk+ colorful model




Well, they need to capitalize the monk while it still hot, I've done the math and the espresso version feels like a rip-off(personal opinion of course), also if you do the math for the ex pack alone, you'll be surprised how much margin that they get. And don't get me started on the microphone version, especially the 3- click button one...


----------



## Willber

jasru said:


> bloodyf8 said:
> 
> 
> > hello earbudlover, im new here and new for earbud too im decided to buy my starter pack earbud for now im looking to Yuin PK3 vs Tonneking/music maker Tomahawk my musics are all rounder and prefer good in vokal and good in soundstage (bass doesnt matter for me) also i need a recomendation under 10$ earbud i have vemonk+ and edifier h180 and i wanna try another good sounds does ty hiz 32 is good enough or i should get edifier h185?
> ...


 

 Good suggestions but IMO the Sony E808+ is better than all of them.


----------



## golov17

Warning: don't buy it  http://s.aliexpress.com/jyeqEJNV


----------



## purplesun

golov17 said:


> Warning: don't buy it  http://s.aliexpress.com/jyeqEJNV


 
  
 I have also collected a bag of crummy E808+s as well; buying from taobao. Different drivers, thin wires cores and/or unsealed rear-vent are the main culprits. So far, that 1 AliExpress seller seem quite legit.


----------



## Saoshyant

danneq said:


> At first I did not like Monk+ but I soon learned to love it and prefer it to the original Monk. I hope that ABnormal can find more original Monk for Diomnes. Otherwise they need to develop a new version of Diomnes...
> 
> I prefer Zen 1 to Zen 2 by far. Zen 2 is too warm sounding and colored sounding. Never heard Asura 1 but Asura 2 did not wow me so I soon sold it to Vapman...


 
  
 You know, I've been listening to the Monk+ for so long at this point I should really do a side by side with original & plus to see which I actually prefer more nowadays.  I kept with the + as if something happened a replacement was readily available where with the original Monk I'd have to pay quite a bit as people are just out for a profit.


----------



## Joy Boy

danneq said:


> At first I did not like Monk+ but I soon learned to love it and prefer it to the original Monk. I hope that ABnormal can find more original Monk for Diomnes. Otherwise they need to develop a new version of Diomnes...
> 
> 
> I prefer Zen 1 to Zen 2 by far. Zen 2 is too warm sounding and colored sounding. Never heard Asura 1 but Asura 2 did not wow me so I soon sold it to Vapman...



They already has new line up that launched a few weeks later, the dietris. But it's a high impedance bud. And as far as i know, they didnt use old monk as the driver for this model.

For asura, the beta version is the best for me. You can call it the "true" baby zen. In fact, without proper amp, it sounds better than zen. While the asura v2 has some kind of "dull" sound for my ears.



saoshyant said:


> @Joy Boy
> I get the feeling Lee is putting a lot of work in on Nirvana, but due to development taking time and a lack of ability to guess how long the process will take, he puts out color variants of the Monk+ to give us something to look forward to as well as make the customers happy.  Plus, there's a lot of us that buy every color variant.
> 
> While I'm a fan of the original Monk, I also get the feeling that Lee is the type of person that once he's done with something, he won't go back to it and only looks forward.



I mean, me myself was a ve fanboy. I've ever collected them all from old monk till ve zen v2, including ve asura beta and ve anonymous (bonus from old asura/zen, red cable, bad sound).
But i'm not impress anymore with their work now. 
In spite of that, i still have some hope for their last flagship, nirvana.
However, from every earbuds that i've ever have (and tried), ve zen v1 still be my best and favourite


----------



## JASru

willber said:


> Good suggestions but IMO the Sony E808+ is better than all of them.


 
 Haven't tried this one, so can't recommend =)


----------



## Willber

jasru said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Good suggestions but IMO the Sony E808+ is better than all of them.
> ...


 
 You need to try!


----------



## fairx

bloodyf8 said:


> hello earbudlover, im new here and new for earbud too im decided to buy my starter pack earbud for now im looking to Yuin PK3 vs Tonneking/music maker Tomahawk my musics are all rounder and prefer good in vokal and good in soundstage (bass doesnt matter for me) also i need a recomendation under 10$ earbud i have vemonk+ and edifier h180 and i wanna try another good sounds does ty hiz 32 is good enough or i should get edifier h185?


you can get qian39 which is as detail as tomahawk with better vocals and no grain in the highs. Tomhawak is more dynamic though. Budget earbud that can be as dynamic as Tomahawk is Sony e808+. Ty32 is good for imaging although not as detail as qian39. I own tomahawk, qian39, ty32 and monk+. . Yang current favorite is qian39. The price to performance ratio is insane.


----------



## Ira Delphic

fairx said:


> bloodyf8 said:
> 
> 
> > hello earbudlover, im new here and new for earbud too im decided to buy my starter pack earbud for now im looking to Yuin PK3 vs Tonneking/music maker Tomahawk my musics are all rounder and prefer good in vokal and good in soundstage (bass doesnt matter for me) also i need a recomendation under 10$ earbud i have vemonk+ and edifier h180 and i wanna try another good sounds does ty hiz 32 is good enough or i should get edifier h185?
> ...


 
  
 You said it! For music that doesn't have stellar mastering a Qian39 may be just as good as $100 earbuds, at least the $100 earbud that I own (TY HP650). But for some well produced music the higher end earbud can take you to a new dimension in sound! For poorly produced music - lo-fi recordings of late 70's punk rock for example, a budget earbud is even better than a higher end earbud because the source faults aren't revealed as much. I highly recommend to start off with a budget bud that matches your preferred sound signature.


----------



## fairx

BTW I still can't get by my Sony e808+. While I can safely say I agree with many praise of its quality mentioned here, it's too fatiguing for me. I still use the original thick foam and now I use ex pack thick foam. still fatigue. I can't listen to it more than 20 minutes. The bump in 5-6 K is too much for me. And after dipping Slightly afterwards they pick up again at 8k. I can usually handle 8k but not the bump in 6k. The bass quality is very good though. The vocals reminds me of ty32 and the dynamic reminds me of tomahawk. But layering is bogged by the peaks. Out of my buds e808h is the least favorite right now.


----------



## fairx

ira delphic said:


> You said it! For music that doesn't have stellar mastering a Qian39 may be just as good as $100 earbuds, at least the $100 earbud that I own (TY HP650). But for some well produced music the higher end earbud can take you to a new dimension in sound! For poorly produced music - lo-fi recordings of late 70's punk rock for example, a budget earbud is even better than a higher end earbud because the source faults aren't revealed as much. I highly recommend to start off with a budget bud that matches your preferred sound signature.


haha your post made me wanna buy new dac just to pair with my ty 320 ohm. Just as you said I "think" my qian39 is slightly better that my 320 ohm with my current setup.


----------



## Newfish-888

vapman said:


> Since getting a XDuoo X3 again (finally own a gold one, and yes Rockbox does sound nicer to me) I was listening to a lot of buds I got while I didn't have it. The Qian25 sure is a weird one. It sounds great, but even with +8dB bass boost on the X3, the bass still hits deeper and seemingly stronger from the Qian39 with no EQ. I still love it though. It is hard to recommend the price of the Puresounds 600 after hearing the $7 Qian39. The 39 is a great choice for modding, and I imagine the 25 is as well. But, the Qian25 is so cheap and the Puresounds 600 is so expensive. When you buy the Qian25 you can rest assured you have probably 80-85% of what the Puresounds 600 has to offer. (The 15-20% improvement on the Puresounds is mainly in bass depth and overall speed/clarity compared to Qian25) yet I find the Qian25 to be good enough I may rather use it depending on the source.



How about soundstage 、spacesense and instrument-positioning of ps100-600;These are what I interested in most ;Cause I love classical music ,consert 、、、etc。Waiting for your full review, and justin also.


----------



## rkw

ryanjsoo said:


> Just curious, what covers are you guys using on your 1more E1008's? Trying to balance high end detail with low end extension, so far, the stock silicone rings seem to be the best combo but would love to hear about any interesting combos.


 
 The main issue I had was finding a combination that would keep the E1008 securely in my ear. I ended up with the stock silicone rings combined with donut foams on top. This was out of fit necessity, not for sound. Just the silicone ring was too slippery in my ear, and just foams (tried different versions) would slide around the metal shell too much. The two together worked out for me but it will depend on the size and shape of individual ears.
  
 I like the E1008 a lot. Works well for classical music, which many earbuds handle poorly.


----------



## Ira Delphic

fairx said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > You said it! For music that doesn't have stellar mastering a Qian39 may be just as good as $100 earbuds, at least the $100 earbud that I own (TY HP650). But for some well produced music the higher end earbud can take you to a new dimension in sound! For poorly produced music - lo-fi recordings of late 70's punk rock for example, a budget earbud is even better than a higher end earbud because the source faults aren't revealed as much. I highly recommend to start off with a budget bud that matches your preferred sound signature.
> ...


 
  
 If you get one, I hope it plays FLAC. The popular ones that play WAV _or_ MP3...I just don't get it!


----------



## vapman

ira delphic said:


> If you get one, I hope it plays FLAC. The popular ones that play WAV _or_ MP3...I just don't get it!


 
 Cause they can be a (quite good) amp too


----------



## purplesun

fairx said:


> it's too fatiguing for me. I still use the original thick foam and now I use ex pack thick foam. still fatigue. I can't listen to it more than 20 minutes. The bump in 5-6 K is too much for me. And after dipping Slightly afterwards they pick up again at 8k I can usually handle 8k but not the bump in 6k.


 
 Sounds like you have the version I label as "peaky vocals". Have not got to the bottom as to why it happens but, right now,  I suspect QC issue with drivers or overdriven initial burn-in. I have 2 that sounds like that. Did you buy from that 1 Ali seller? And have you done over 3 days of playing time?
  
 A normal sounding E808+, after 3 days of burn-in, should sound like the straight-plug TY Hi-Z 32 with a bit more treble (may be grainy). Then, after over 200 hours of playing, the treble will settle down & the bass becomes even deeper sounding. All using doughnut foam.


----------



## Pulpfiction

This a quick post to chirp to say I really echo those observations on the Qian39 (don't have the Qian25). It sounds really good with older recordings, or less complex ones. Actually unless you need a bud to handle music with complex sounstage / spacial cues and/or need your bass to be tight / really have a kick, I think these will do great. They have more presence in the lows and low-end extension compared to Ty Hp32 v1 & Monk V1 (and by farfarfar compared to Monk+) but the bass is a bit slow / woolly. That being said I only have about 20 hrs on my pair. Build quality seems great (cable is THIN but still seems sturdy nevertheless, L-shaped connector is GREAT and because the cable is thin it bends / folds easily I think it will last. No issues so far), fit is more comfy than the standard Senn shell for me that most bud makers use. Source I use is rooted S4 I9506 with custom Kernel + PowerAmp, no ext. amp. I love the warmth these give to older music I listen to like Bob Marley & the Wailers, bands like Fleetwood Mac just for example. With older recordings they seem to bring out nice detail, really recommend these for general listening (I wouldn't call these bass heavy -compared to Monk+ maybe- they just have a decently extended warm low-end).

HOWEVER I also listen to a lot of psychill / break / ambient stuff, with complex spatial cues and on some songs impactful beats. The kick of the bass is slower and looser on these, and they really do quite poorly on this music (mostly in layering & soundstage) when comparing to Ty32 v1 &Monk v1.

I still have a K's 500 ohm & a HE 150 ohm on the way to me that I'm really looking forward to listen to. Not the best source to bring everything out of the 500's, but I'm curious to experience how big the gap is between higher end and the budget badasses .


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Does any one know what kind of Sound Sig Dietris 300Ohm has?


----------



## tinkertailor

Just got FAREAL 32ohms with the black cable today.. so far not bad. Soft sound, not huge bass but tested it and it was quite clean...not super detailed either. Its sort of like a less mid-centric monk v1. I like how smooth/warm/soft it is but still some quality to the sound. I'll add it to a comparison review later. I had the 64 ohms, thought they were garbage, but it turns out my pair were wired wrong and the drivers broke when i tried to re-cable. so i can't compare.


----------



## tinkertailor

On the topic of the Qian39. I do like the sound sig of mine a lot however i found it not the highest quality compared to even a monk plus. I tested it here: http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php and it distorted very badly at the bass test. I was wondering if others could test there qian39s ...if mine is the only one that distorts i may have to order another pair.


----------



## Townyj

midnightempest said:


> Does any one know what kind of Sound Sig Dietris 300Ohm has?




Has a warm sound sig, ment to be tuned similar to the HD650  warm, large sound stage. Good for slower music etc.


----------



## Joy Boy

midnightempest said:


> Does any one know what kind of Sound Sig Dietris 300Ohm has?







townyj said:


> Has a warm sound sig, ment to be tuned similar to the HD650  warm, large sound stage. Good for slower music etc.



Agree. If good vocal and bass impact is what you're searching for, it will fit you great. 
But i dont recommend it for fast/agressive song (metal/hard rock). Diomnes fits that genre better


----------



## vapman

Freshly cabled q39!!!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> Freshly cabled q39!!!


 
   
Fantastic work!  Looks awesome!


----------



## vapman

bloodypenguin said:


> Fantastic work!  Looks awesome!


 
 If you ever get into DIY, try it with your Q39 and a thicker/nicer cable. The highs and clarity open up like crazy. The stock ones sounded like the wires were bad in comparison.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> If you ever get into DIY, try it with your Q39 and a thicker/nicer cable. The highs and clarity open up like crazy. The stock ones sounded like the wires were bad in comparison.


 
  
 Well, I would love to get into DIY someday, but unfortunately, no time at the present.

 Also, I would have to re-purchase the Q39 as I gave mine away to a co-worker already because I disliked them so much.

 Though, on a positive not, my co-worker loves them...  she likes how "loud" they get.  I don't know what that means, I am just happy they found a good home.
  
 --


----------



## vapman

bloodypenguin said:


> Well, I would love to get into DIY someday, but unfortunately, no time at the present.
> 
> 
> Also, I would have to re-purchase the Q39 as I gave mine away to a co-worker already because I disliked them so much.
> ...



Haha. She is probably after the bassy sound too. In stock form they are unimpressive on very complicated music but for stuff like hip hop  or anything else electronic you can't really beat em.

You can turn them up a lot louder than other buds before they start sounding bad or uncomfortable. You can listen a little louder than usual and it is still easy on your ears. That's what I'm guessing she meant.... in which case, she has good taste!  

No problem if you disliked them though, as in that case, I'd recommend doing the same to the Qian25 which has as bad of a cable as the 39 and has just as much to gain, which is insane on both IMO. 

But, anyone reading who has an un-loved 39 lying in a drawer, give this a shot before writing it off. The highs just weren't there before.


----------



## fairx

vapman said:


> Freshly cabled q39!!!



I have that cable at home laying somewhere. Is it easy to open qian shell? 




purplesun said:


> Sounds like you have the version I label as "peaky vocals". Have not got to the bottom as to why it happens but, right now,  I suspect QC issue with drivers or overdriven initial burn-in. I have 2 that sounds like that. Did you buy from that 1 Ali seller? And have you done over 3 days of playing time?
> 
> A normal sounding E808+, after 3 days of burn-in, should sound like the straight-plug TY Hi-Z 32 with a bit more treble (may be grainy). Then, after over 200 hours of playing, the treble will settle down & the bass becomes even deeper sounding. All using doughnut foam.


I have the J cable with L plug. So how do you handle this version.?


----------



## knudsen

Aah I want to do the same, just searched for a replacement cable yesterday... which cable are you using? And which solder (do you think it matters at all) ? Thanks
  
 Btw agree on turning them up louder than most others, I listen to a lot of music with horn sections (Maceo Parker, 70's funk/soul etc). Others, for example hi-z 32, screams and destroys the ears on very low levels. Qian39 I can turn much louder and don't miss anything. I think they're at their best at low and medium volumes though


----------



## loveiem

clieos said:


> Sennheiser MX985, Blox TM7, Venture Electronic Zen 1.0, Rose Technology Mojito.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Niice!
But I only collect Android iem's with inline mic with up/down buttons.Therarwnt slot of iem's out there just for Android only.


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> Freshly cabled q39!!!


 


 Cool!

 Looks like the same cable I used for my pair of Aiwa 99!


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> Cool!
> 
> 
> Looks like the same cable I used for my pair of Aiwa 99!




Very possible sir as I'm not sure if we bought from the same ali store but as we all know there is plenty of stock overlap between stores. If it was nice thick copper well tinned... I would say probably the same stuff! 

The result is excellent. And recommended to both qian39 fans and non fans. On the fence if its ready for complex music now. Might just be yuin syndrome with the driver

fairx
Super easy! The drivers don't come off the front cover. Take a tiny flathead and be patient. The front cover has a lip that snaps on so you will feel when it's off enough to pull off with your hand. Great cable


----------



## rkw

How do you go about choosing cables? Do you decide that you want a result (e.g. more detail) and then pick out a particular cable to achieve it? What makes you choose one cable over another?


----------



## purplesun

fairx said:


> I have the J cable with L plug. So how do you handle this version.?


 
 Unfortunately, for this "unofficial" Sony earbud, there are variations even if they look exactly the same. ie: five-of-diamond shaped holes in front mesh, J-cable with E808+ on the splitter & 8 fake-vents on the back of the shell. I have detected 2 types with different  internal shell designs so far.
  
 I buy all mine from different taobao sellers but, by all accounts so far in this thread, the only E808+ seller on AliExpress seems to be selling the "good" ones.


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> Very possible sir as I'm not sure if we bought from the same ali store but as we all know there is plenty of stock overlap between stores. If it was nice thick copper well tinned... I would say probably the same stuff!
> 
> The result is excellent. And recommended to both qian39 fans and non fans. On the fence if its ready for complex music now. Might just be yuin syndrome with the driver
> 
> ...


 


 By the way, did you experience the same thing as I did? That the red wire was left and the green right?


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> By the way, did you experience the same thing as I did? That the red wire was left and the green right?


 

 Yep! Same thing. I have seen all kinds of colors for left signal but right is always red. Not here! It sounded out of whack and i reversed it

 edit: @Danneq  I listened to Melvins - Bullhead on my recabled Q39 and it sounded way better than I've ever heard on these earbuds. Even if you don't know that band at least it's more up your alley in terms of musical styling


----------



## Nachash

tinkertailor said:


> On the topic of the Qian39. I do like the sound sig of mine a lot however i found it not the highest quality compared to even a monk plus. I tested it here: http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php and it distorted very badly at the bass test. I was wondering if others could test there qian39s ...if mine is the only one that distorts i may have to order another pair.



 
I prefer the Qian over the Monks, will report later with the distortion test


----------



## vapman

I was inspired to keep going after not screwing up those qian. I finally decided to junk the Sone E828 stock cable. Now this made me nervous! Oldest buds i have easily. Plus i forgot to mark which side had which cable but i got it right first try... Immediately off the bat, more bass. I will replace the jack on it with a rhodium one later (pictured)



 The stock cable:


----------



## DavidRrofel

I tested the bass of my qian39 there and it didn't distorted at all, it's almost perfect bass on my ears. Just my opinion....


----------



## Nachash

Anybody tried the Laoze Earbud ? What about the DIY EMX50


----------



## golov17

nachash said:


> Anybody tried the Laoze Earbud ? What about the DIY EMX50


on the way.. waiting..


----------



## herzhz

Hi,Hersang here.
 I just remembered i already made head-fi account long ago..
  
  
 Just wanted to say that we (from ABnormal) are really appreciate the support from head-fi'ers.Thank you 
  
  
 Quote:


fabi said:


> I still have three pairs of OG Monk, the very only earbuds I keep for collection.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Come, send them


----------



## ProspektFi

Finally yesterday arrived **** PT15 and Auglamour RX1 ordered on 11.11! Someone know if burn in is useful on these two buds? And how much hours?


----------



## Saoshyant

I've always been a burn in while using kind of person


----------



## noxa

prospektfi said:


> Finally yesterday arrived **** PT15 and Auglamour RX1 ordered on 11.11! Someone know if burn in is useful on these two buds? And how much hours?




I've always gone with 100 hours and listen from there and know that by 200 very little will change from there. I personally listen when they arrive and note my first impressions, then leave till 100 hours and happily listening from then on.


----------



## Ira Delphic

prospektfi said:


> Finally yesterday arrived **** PT15 and Auglamour RX1 ordered on 11.11! Someone know if burn in is useful on these two buds? And how much hours?


 
  
 I can only comment on the PT15. I didn't notice burn in changing the sound. I can check my backup pair against the one I use frequently and report back later if any difference.


----------



## ProspektFi

noxa said:


> I've always gone with 100 hours and listen from there and know that by 200 very little will change from there. I personally listen when they arrive and note my first impressions, then leave till 100 hours and happily listening from then on.


 
  
 Yeah, I'm already listening to both to "learn" their sound signature, as they are different then the other earbuds I own. I'll try to get close to 100 hours. 

  


ira delphic said:


> I can only comment on the PT15. I didn't notice burn in changing the sound. I can check my backup pair against the one I use frequently and report back later if any difference.


 
  
 Thank you! It would be interesting.


----------



## AkashS04

willber said:


> I posted a link for you when I (and others) advised you to by them three months ago.


 
 Sorry. I bought Monk+ that time which are ok but not with Boomy Bass for sure and not very comfortable to wear. They just keep falling from my ear. May be bigger in size of the speaker.


----------



## fairx

so finally I recabled my qian39. The cable is intended for she3800 but the drive busted. Been neglecting for quite sometime until now. Thanks to vapman for encouragement . Took me half hour to examine, pry open and resolder. Tested OK. Will order more of these cable for my tomahawk project


----------



## fairx

BTW after recable I found it to be a touch different in sound. Overall a cleaner sounding. But it also brighter. Maybe not the cable or plug itself but the position of new cable in shell now different / changed. I'm not sure if I like the new sound. The bright sound reminds me of qian39 when I first get it before burn in.


----------



## Ira Delphic

fairx said:


> so finally I recabled my qian39. The cable is intended for she3800 but the drive busted. Been neglecting for quite sometime until now. Thanks to vapman for encouragement . Took me half hour to examine, pry open and resolder. Tested OK. Will order more of these cable for my tomahawk project


 
  
 The Quian 39 is so good it deserves a better cable and plug. Nice work! I had the same thought but lack the soldering skills.


----------



## Nachash

golov17 said:


> on the way.. waiting..



 
I'll wait you then


----------



## springbay

herzhz said:


> Come, send them


 

 I see the smiley, but I'd better ask...
 I have three spare pairs of unused Monks and one spare pair that I've only used about an hour to compare foams between Monks.
 Can I send them somewhere and have them remade?

  
 When I had the phone out I took these pictures as well


  
 I have no idea where and when I got these buds and they have been sitting in a drawer with old junk for many years.
 My best guess is that they were included with some Walkman or Discman I bought way back the days.
 The left bud is missing the Y in the logo and the right is missing the S (!)
 Do any of you recognize these buds?
 They are VERY mid forward, with rather poor bass.
 Would it be possible to recable them and would it be worth the trouble to recable?


----------



## vapman

fairx said:


> so finally I recabled my qian39. The cable is intended for she3800 but the drive busted. Been neglecting for quite sometime until now. Thanks to vapman for encouragement . Took me half hour to examine, pry open and resolder. Tested OK. Will order more of these cable for my tomahawk project


 
  


fairx said:


> BTW after recable I found it to be a touch different in sound. Overall a cleaner sounding. But it also brighter. Maybe not the cable or plug itself but the position of new cable in shell now different / changed. I'm not sure if I like the new sound. The bright sound reminds me of qian39 when I first get it before burn in.


 
 I noticed the same sound change. But, the warmth and bass impact & power are still there. Let it settle in a bit and i'm sure you'll come to really enjoy it.
 Ironically I couldn't decide if I wanted to put my other of those cables on a SHE3800 
  
  
@springbay
 Yes it's worth a recable IMO.
 In my experience the wires in buds that old are thin as a hair.
 my e828 I didn't expect any sound sig change with the new cable_ but it just got better in every way. _


----------



## waynes world

Gonna get the Qian39. Thinking of getting it from aliexpress here.
  
 I'm not too thrilled with the 39-59 days to wait though (and the aliexpress premium shipping for faster shipping costs too much). Does anyone know if these are sold someplace that uses epacket?


----------



## vapman

waynes world said:


> Gonna get the Qian39. Thinking of getting it from aliexpress here.
> 
> I'm not too thrilled with the 39-59 days to wait though (and the aliexpress premium shipping for faster shipping costs too much). Does anyone know if these are sold someplace that uses epacket?


 
 Sometimes those stores do epacket even though normal china mail or ali shipping is listed.
 Anyway after ordering i would just message them and ask nicely for them to ship epacket. Usually works for me.
  
 I need to get some more to make some backup q39 mods.


----------



## Fabi

springbay said:


> I see the smiley, but I'd better ask...
> I have three spare pairs of unused Monks and one spare pair that I've only used about an hour to compare foams between Monks.
> Can I send them somewhere and have them remade?


 
 I have pmed him. I'll let you know when the sun comes up there.


----------



## fairx

vapman said:


> I noticed the same sound change. But, the warmth and bass impact & power are still there. Let it settle in a bit and i'm sure you'll come to really enjoy it.
> Ironically I couldn't decide if I wanted to put my other of those cables on a SHE3800




Someone mention about bass distortion when testing sine sweep? After recable I listen to Alexis Cole song Another Galaxy and notice some distortion. Test the sine sweep and detect faint buzzing in left driver below 100hz. I opened it again and gently blow the surrounding shell /chamber. Put it back again and listen. No more distortion, back to normal. 

Maybe some debris from filter foams inside?


----------



## tinkertailor

> When I had the phone out I took these pictures as well
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Those are mdr-e414 i think. It should be written on them either by the plug or at the point where the left and right buds split. I've read they aren't very good.


----------



## vapman

fairx said:


> Someone mention about bass distortion when testing sine sweep? After recable I listen to Alexis Cole song Another Galaxy and notice some distortion. Test the sine sweep and detect faint buzzing in left driver below 100hz. I opened it again and gently blow the surrounding shell /chamber. Put it back again and listen. No more distortion, back to normal.
> 
> Maybe some debris from filter foams inside?


 
 Yeah that can happen. When i am modding I tape the parts in place so stuff doesn't get into them. My recabled qian39 show no problem whatsoever on the distortion test.
  
 I have one other Qian39 in stock form around, and man it just sounds like a distant radio compared to the recabled one.


----------



## magitka27

looks like im saving my money for masya after hearing and try the fit... it fits almost perfectly into my ears !!!! 

and i'm changing my mind atm, i will not buy the zen2 as its need more power from my x5ii ... at least with runabout it will sound better according to my friend that sells zen2 and tried with the old x5 ...


any other balanced earbuds that has low impedance to replace my asura 2? 

and i like vocal presentation on the masya honestly


----------



## golov17

magitka27 said:


> looks like im saving my money for masya after hearing and try the fit... it fits almost perfectly into my ears !!!!
> 
> and i'm changing my mind atm, i will not buy the zen2 as its need more power from my x5ii ... at least with runabout it will sound better according to my friend that sells zen2 and tried with the old x5 ...
> 
> ...


Shozy BK?


----------



## vapman

My recabled Sony MDR E828 is the weirdest thing.
  
 First off you have to consider I got this originally in the 90's and have used it on and off tons since then with its awful stock cable that required an extension cable to work. And i was kinda shocked at how thin the stock wires were.
  
 Anyway it's been going with the sound it always had for decades, and now with the new cable so much more is going to the drivers. I think it is re-burning in? That sounds kind of weird I know but I had to re-check with a multimeter like 5 times to be sure I didn't wire something backwards, because something kept sounding off.
  
 I have been listening to the same few albums on it and I swear it is sounding fuller and more natural now. before it sounded like elements of the driver that has been dormant for decades were starting to be fully used and those needed to break in a little more and "catch up" with the rest of the driver. it just sounds fuller and fuller. 
  
 In comparison when using my recabled Qian39, the only 2 buds I have been touching recently, the Qian39 even recabled seems so dark on the treble versus the Sony which is crystal clear up to the very top. IT is very noticeable on 80s j-pop.


----------



## DBaldock9

I had ordered a set of 1More Piston Earbuds for my Dad, to use with his phone & DAP.  
 While setting things up, I enjoyed the sound quality enough that I ordered a set for myself.
 They arrived today, and it really is impressive that you can get all metal earbuds that sound this good, with mic & audio controls, for less than $18 (and they're delivered in a metal can).
 Just went to The Ultimate Headphone Test site, that was linked in this thread during the last couple of days, and I'm sensing/hearing the 20Hz tone with these 1More Piston Earbuds.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Has anyone in the US Ordered from rholupat.com ? I'm curious if they have any experience shipping to the States, I think they screwed up my Address somehow.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I get a lot of questions about the gear I use, so here I am sharing my setup:  (As I needed a few extra photos of the Puresounds earbuds for my review).
  
  
 - Camera: Panasonic GH1 (2009)
 - Lenses: LUMIX G Vario 14-45mm / 45-200mm and Vivitar Macro
 - Other: No-Brand Tripod, LED Light and Lamp
 - Software: Photoshop CS3
  
  
 That is ALL I use for any photo you see me take. Everything was bought on sale or refurbished. I did not spend more than $600USD for the whole setup.
  
 I've included a crappy photo I took with my Galaxy S4 and then the finished product of an example photo.
  

  
  

  
 --


----------



## vapman

I like how your Galaxy S4 shot is miles beyond any of my camera phone shots


----------



## golov17




----------



## springbay

tinkertailor said:


> Those are mdr-e414 i think. It should be written on them either by the plug or at the point where the left and right buds split. I've read they aren't very good.


 

 Thank you!
 The answer was there all along, but I had to bring out a magnifying glass to see that there was something written on the split. 
 It indeed reads mdr-e414, and I agree that they don't sound very good.


----------



## vapman

When the hiegi pack goes empty... a problem only earbud lovers know.
  





 At least they're cheap!


----------



## herzhz

springbay said:


> I see the smiley, but I'd better ask...
> I have three spare pairs of unused Monks and one spare pair that I've only used about an hour to compare foams between Monks.
> Can I send them somewhere and have them remade?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sure, if you want ABnormal to mod them, just send to us. Just leave a message to our page, i'll send you details there.

 Awesome vintage buds, of course it worth to recab them. Try OCC copper and use neutrik angled, that should add a nice touch to  the bass.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> When the hiegi pack goes empty... a problem only earbud lovers know.
> 
> At least they're cheap!


sucks


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> sucks


 
 Thanks for the sympathy


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Thanks for the sympathy :rolleyes:


 Hiegi High Quality Black Donut Foam Cushions for Earphones Earbuds (6 pairs)
 http://s.aliexpress.com/YzQZrEnQ 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> Hiegi High Quality Black Donut Foam Cushions for Earphones Earbuds (6 pairs)
> http://s.aliexpress.com/YzQZrEnQ
> (from AliExpress Android)


 
 Hmmm, only $1 more on Amazon Prime, will have it in 2 days hehe


----------



## chinmie

i've just watched some movies with the TY HI-Z 32s, and the sub-bass rumble is really great, i'd say it's about almos/the same sub bass extension as my ATH m50. my other earbuds at this moment. my other buds (H185 and qian39) can't reach that low,although the qian is bassy, but it plays on a low bass more, not reaching sub bass. 

what other earbuds that have this kind of sub bass or better?


----------



## golov17

chinmie said:


> i've just watched some movies with the TY HI-Z 32s, and the sub-bass rumble is really great, i'd say it's about almos/the same sub bass extension as my ATH m50. my other earbuds at this moment. my other buds (H185 and qian39) can't reach that low,although the qian is bassy, but it plays on a low bass more, not reaching sub bass.
> 
> what other earbuds that have this kind of sub bass or better?


Try RY04s


----------



## Townyj

midnightempest said:


> Has anyone in the US Ordered from rholupat.com ? I'm curious if they have any experience shipping to the States, I think they screwed up my Address somehow.


 
  
 I ordered my previous Red Demun through Adhi and just recently purchased my Dietris through him aswell. Didnt have any issues with the Red Demun delivery, i picked the slower shipping then and now. Saving some $$$ is hard to pass up.


----------



## smith

springbay said:


> Edimun V3 Rhodium and Red Demun arrived today.
> 
> Red Demun sound great right out of the box.
> 
> ...


 

 How are you finding the cable for the Red Demun and how are they sounding now ? I am loving the Edimun V3 and thinking about getting the Red Demun as well now......


----------



## vapman

I might make my own H180/SHE3800 mod a-la the Demun/Edimun and call it the Edimun USA? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Allow me to interject though @smith  this way of storing the Red Demun when not used makes it so much more flexible. The cable is stiff enough it gets used to the way you coil it. So after using, coil it the opposite way. After a while, it is more flexible. Mine is still stiffer than Edimun cable, but way better than when it was new...


----------



## golov17

This cables kill me  
But sounds good


----------



## teston

Anyone have Yinman 150 and VE Asura 2.0 can compare their sound? I'm about to pull the trigger on the Yinman.
@golov17 @vapman


----------



## mochill

magitka27 said:


> looks like im saving my money for masya after hearing and try the fit... it fits almost perfectly into my ears !!!!
> 
> and i'm changing my mind atm, i will not buy the zen2 as its need more power from my x5ii ... at least with runabout it will sound better according to my friend that sells zen2 and tried with the old x5 ...
> 
> ...


puresounds ps600balanced


----------



## chaiyuta

mochill said:


> puresounds ps600balanced


 
 600Ohm. Low impedance?


----------



## mochill

Or ps160 balanced


----------



## golov17

teston said:


> Anyone have Yinman 150 and VE Asura 2.0 can compare their sound? I'm about to pull the trigger on the Yinman.
> @golov17
> @vapman


 Yinman have better bass, Asura better mids


----------



## vapman

teston said:


> Anyone have Yinman 150 and VE Asura 2.0 can compare their sound? I'm about to pull the trigger on the Yinman.
> @golov17
> @vapman




What golov said, also, yinman is smoother, asura might have slightly hot treble


----------



## teston

golov17 said:


> Yinman have better bass, Asura better mids


 
 Thank you uncle. I just placed the order. I want to see it by myself 
 Though further information is always welcome


----------



## golov17

this train is always in motion


----------



## teston

vapman said:


> What golov said, also, yinman is smoother, asura might have slightly hot treble


 
 Thank you sir. Although I don't find the asura treb too hot but smoother treb is acceptable. So I placed the order.
 And the Yinman sound described is quite like the 1More EO320 that I also like alot


----------



## rholupat

midnightempest said:


> Has anyone in the US Ordered from rholupat.com ? I'm curious if they have any experience shipping to the States, I think they screwed up my Address somehow.




Hi this is adhi from rholupat.com. what can I help You ?


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

rholupat said:


> Hi this is adhi from rholupat.com. what can I help You ?


 
  
  
 I jump the gun, Everything is good to GO! 
  
 Thanks! Looking forward to my New Earbuds!


----------



## rholupat

midnightempest said:


> I jump the gun, Everything is good to GO!
> 
> Thanks! Looking forward to my New Earbuds!


you're welcome and dont hesitate to contact me by email or Whatsapp at +6281553355333


----------



## Samuel Lawiet

Please give me advice about earbud with good 3d imaging and bass (not too much) for playing video games like counter strike around $30


----------



## Townyj

samuel lawiet said:


> Please give me advice about earbud with good 3d imaging and bass (not too much) for playing video games like counter strike around $30


 
  
 Give the MM TP16 a go.


----------



## Ira Delphic

samuel lawiet said:


> Please give me advice about earbud with good 3d imaging and bass (not too much) for playing video games like counter strike around $30


 
  
 $30 isn't necessarily better than some $5 earbuds. Nobody ever went wrong getting a Monk + for under $10.


----------



## vapman

@Samuel Lawiet
 Well i think cygnus cant really be beat for a gaming bud.
 it has superior channel separation.
 Boarseman k25s in 2nd place for the same reason.
 they really are superior to most others in that way! 
 and i only play counter strike.


----------



## Tonx

Someone heard Puresounds 260?


----------



## vapman

tonx said:


> Someone heard Puresounds 260?


 
 Doubt it as they were not one of the review units offered. I believe only 600 and 500 were offered to reviewers


----------



## Willber

chinmie said:


> i've just watched some movies with the TY HI-Z 32s, and the sub-bass rumble is really great, i'd say it's about almos/the same sub bass extension as my ATH m50. my other earbuds at this moment. my other buds (H185 and qian39) can't reach that low,although the qian is bassy, but it plays on a low bass more, not reaching sub bass.
> 
> what other earbuds that have this kind of sub bass or better?


 

 Sony E808+


----------



## golov17

tonx said:


> Someone heard Puresounds 260?


on the way


----------



## DBaldock9

The Daik DK-Song earbuds I ordered at the end of November, have finally arrived...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Making a quick comparison against the 1More Piston earbuds that arrived yesterday (and that I listened to at work, most of today).  Both were connected to the unbalanced output of my Onkyo DP-X1.  Piston has "doughnut" foam covers, DK-Song as full foam covers.
  
*Bass* ---  Piston seems to go a bit deeper than the DK-Song  (20 Hz vs. 25-30 Hz).  Both have good impact, for an earbud.
*Midrange* --- DK-Song seems to be a bit elevated, making them sound more forward than the Piston.
*Treble* --- DK-Song is more forward, but Piston seems to have a more integrated extension of the Treble, going up from the Midrange.
*Sound-Stage* --- They both present a wide, and moderately deep image, playing one of the Chesky acoustic test tracks that was recorded with a binaural head/mic.
  
 After I've had the time to run both sets of earbuds for a few more hours of music, I'll see if the Midrange & Treble on the DK-Song is more balanced (it's not _bad_, just not as smooth as the Piston).
  
 Take Care,
 David Baldock


----------



## smith

vapman said:


> Hmm, I need to get my hands on a Qian69, I keep forgetting I don't have them. I could wait for reviews though


 

 Anyone got them yet?


----------



## Willber

> Originally Posted by *DBaldock9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Making a quick comparison against the 1More Piston earbuds that arrived yesterday


 
  
 I presume these are the EO320?


----------



## Saoshyant

It occurs to me I have a small drawer full of budget earbuds I most likely won't end up using, as well as a few daps.  Maybe I should organize some form of giveaway.  Then again, one of the daps I'll never use again most likely would be better off traded away.


----------



## PureSounds-cn

Quote:
Originally Posted by vapman View Post

Puresounds PS100-600


I have not started writing my review yet, but I realized I have 200ish hours on these, the sound has been consistent for a few days, and Puresounds asked 100 hours burn in before sharing impressions. I already know what I think of them and will share a preview for those who have been dying to hear about it before my review is published.
Top tier sound, but $140 price tag is higher than I'd want to pay for these. That said, it can compete with other flagships which I've heard.
I've not heard a Cypherus, but I've heard them described as full headphone-like experiences. This is how I would describe the PS100-600.
Too quiet off a DAP or phone. Got to okay volumes with my LG V10, but was better after amping.
Does not take to heavy EQ terribly well. however, its un-EQ'd sound is phenomenal.
VERY fast and VERY detailed, I don't think I have heard a bud this detailed since Mojito.
Honest and balanced sound across the sound spectrum, impressive bass depth without any EQ, enormous but non exaggerated soundstage
Barely V shaped, but excellent treble and bass extension on both ends. Studio monitor-esque sound signature.
No giant wow factor that wears off, not tiring for very long listening sessions, even at medium to loud volumes (sounds killer at loud volumes, a problem with Cypheruses apparently)

I would like to see it sell for ~$100. But, even at $140, you can be assured you're getting a very worthy bud. It has the clarity of TY 650, speed of Mojito, energy of the low impedance TY's, and overall sound signature of the MX985/Red Demun, or a less V shaped and more mid heavy Edimun V3.

Winner? Time will tell but I haven't been interested in much else since hearing these, except my DIY buds which are comparable in mids and treble but don't have the speed or great bass of the PS100-600.
Hmm I wonder how much of a difference there is between the 500ohm and 600ohm versions??



notamethlab said:


> Hmm I wonder how much of a difference there is between the 500ohm and 600ohm versions??




We released 2 edition for ps100-500，one is for vocals、pop，and another is for classical;The ps100-600 are monitor-style earbuds;


----------



## DBaldock9

willber said:


> I presume these are the EO320?


 
 I don't see that P/N on the packaging, but this is the item I ordered - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2017-New-Upgraded-Original-1More-Piston-Pod-Earbud-Earphone-Headset-with-Remote-Mic-Retail-Box-for/32788414086.html


----------



## golov17

dbaldock9 said:


> I don't see that P/N on the packaging, but this is the item I ordered - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2017-New-Upgraded-Original-1More-Piston-Pod-Earbud-Earphone-Headset-with-Remote-Mic-Retail-Box-for/32788414086.html


----------



## Willber

dbaldock9 said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > I presume these are the EO320?
> ...


 
  
 Judging by the picture of the controller in the link this is the older version EO303. The advert saying "2017 New Upgraded" is wrong. They don't get good reviews on here (compared to the upgraded EO320).
  
 Edit: It's difficult for me to see but I think golov's post confirms this.


----------



## golov17

willber said:


> Judging by the picture of the controller in the link this is the older version EO303. The advert saying "2017 New Upgraded" is wrong. They don't get good reviews on here (compared to the upgraded EO320).
> 
> Edit: It's difficult for me to see but I think golov's post confirms this.


----------



## Willber

golov17 said:


> willber said:
> 
> 
> > Judging by the picture of the controller in the link this is the older version EO303. The advert saying "2017 New Upgraded" is wrong. They don't get good reviews on here (compared to the upgraded EO320).
> ...


 

 Yup, see it now.
 Misleading product description.


----------



## dwayniac

My conclusions with my earbud purchases:
 
DIY EMX50 - Good all purpose earbud for me. As a Grado fandude,they are very Grado-like to my ears.
TY Hi-Z 32 ohm - Dark and bass heavy like the Qian39 but with much more refinement
Auglamour RX-1 - Wish these had more bass.
Qian39 - Dark,bass heavy and lacks refinement
Panasonic RP-HV096-K - Same as Qian39
 Philips SHE2100GY/28 - Shrill and awful


----------



## golov17




----------



## ATi7500

golov17 said:


>


 
 where to buy?


----------



## golov17

ati7500 said:


> where to buy?


 https://www.facebook.com/demuncustomcable/


----------



## knudsen

Burn baby burn
  

 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-5mm-Jack-6-Multi-Port-Aux-Headphone-Splitter-Audio-Cable-Adapter-Converter/32765043175.html


----------



## golov17

knudsen said:


> Burn baby burn
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-5mm-Jack-6-Multi-Port-Aux-Headphone-Splitter-Audio-Cable-Adapter-Converter/32765043175.html


bad quality


----------



## golov17

http://s.aliexpress.com/juuA3UbA


----------



## knudsen

If just it won't start a fire and the connections work I'll be happy. If not its only 2$. We'll see. Thanks for input


----------



## DBaldock9

golov17 said:


>


 

 I may run by the house at Lunch, and take a closer look at that area of the package - to see what numbers are actually printed there.
  
 But, my impression of what's written in the descriptions of the EO303 and EO320 on the web pages, is that only the phone control module has been updated, to control iPhones as well as Android phones.  The specs and images of the actual earbuds are the same.  I don't need iPhone control, so the one I ordered is fine, and $10 cheaper.
  
 EO303 - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2017-New-Upgraded-Original-1More-Piston-Pod-Earbud-Earphone-Headset-with-Remote-Mic-Retail-Box-for/32788414086.html
 EO320 - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/original-1More-xiaomi-earPod-Piston-super-bass-Earphone-Headset-metal-Earbud-with-Remote-Mic-for-Xiaomi/32733869878.html


----------



## Nachash

knudsen said:


> If just it won't start a fire and the connections work I'll be happy. If not its only 2$. We'll see. Thanks for input



 
I have one of those splitters too, the 6in1. It's not that bad, I use it straight out of the magni2 to compare different earbuds on the go


----------



## Ira Delphic

dbaldock9 said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


 
  
 It's been stated many times in this thread - and understandable that you missed it! The EO320 is said to have improved bass and overall better sound quality (in addition to the ios/Android controls). But enjoy your 303. Sound quality is a matter of personal taste. And we don't do quantitative tests here.


----------



## Nachash

Bought some new earbuds,
  
 DIY EMX50 (love the green)
 Boarseman K25S
 K's K300


----------



## To.M

As for splitters, I'm waiting for this one, but I bought it cheaper, for less than 5usd:

http://s.aliexpress.com/e2Era2y2


----------



## DBaldock9

ira delphic said:


> dbaldock9 said:
> 
> 
> > golov17 said:
> ...




Well, now you've made me curious - so I may have to order the $30 EO320, to hear the differences. Although, I do have the $30 balanced VE Monk+ on order already...  

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Any know the sound difference between Xiaomi EO320 and REMAX 305M ?


----------



## Ira Delphic

dbaldock9 said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > dbaldock9 said:
> ...


 
  
 Do you find the EO303 to be lacking in bass? If not, I would explore other budget earbuds. Unless you love it and need an extra copy for backup (been there, done that way too much, extras!)


----------



## DBaldock9

ira delphic said:


> Do you find the EO303 to be lacking in bass? If not, I would explore other budget earbuds. Unless you love it and need an extra copy for backup (been there, done that way too much, extras!)


 

 Playing the 10 Hz - 200 Hz tones on - http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php - and I can *(EDIT: insert) barely* hear the 20 Hz signal on the EO303 (from my PC / Micro iDSD, or Onkyo DP-X1), which is about as low as any of my other earphones (although, some of the in-ear models produce some sensation at 10 Hz).  *(EDIT: insert) The Bass, from 30 Hz on up, is easy for me to hear on the EO303.*
  
 As I mentioned a few pages back, I had previous purchased a set of the 1More Piston (EO303), for my Dad to use with his phone and DAP.  While I was setting up his DAP, I enjoyed the sound and build quality of the earbuds, so I decided to order a set for myself (they were less than $18).
  
 The list of (**new*) earbuds that I've accumulated (so far...) -
*MusicMaker TKY2*, [$88.01]
*VE Asura 2.0 (2.5TRRS)*, [$88.00 - on order]
*Daik DK-Song*, [$46.95, no cable]
*VE Monk Plus (2.5TRRS)*, [$30.00, on order]
*1More Piston (EO303)*, [$17.79]
***** PT15*, [$15.00, no cable]
  
 I was just trying to select a few, from a range of prices (less than $100), to see how good they sound in more-or-less quiet environments.
  
**NOTE:*  I've got a few pair of earbuds, some dating back to the '80s, which came with various electronics devices.  They don't sound as good, nor fit as comfortably as the new ones.


----------



## tinkertailor

dbaldock9 said:


> As I mentioned a few pages back, I had previous purchased a set of the 1More Piston (EO303), for my Dad to use with his phone and DAP.  While I was setting up his DAP, I enjoyed the sound and build quality of the earbuds, so I decided to order a set for myself (they were less than $18).
> 
> The list of (**new*) earbuds that I've accumulated (so far...) -
> *MusicMaker TKY2*, [$88.01]
> ...


 
 Hey, would love to hear your comparitive impressions of those different buds, and ones from the 80s you have.


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

Has anyone had their YINMAN 150ohm arrive yet? Mine hasn't even dispatched yet because of the Chinese new year


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

How does the YINMAN Earphone 64 Ohm compare to Qian39 & TY32s ?


----------



## vapman

dbaldock9 said:


> **NOTE:*  I've got a few pair of earbuds, some dating back to the '80s, which came with various electronics devices.  They don't sound as good, nor fit as comfortably as the new ones.


 
 Don't get rid of them. A lot of buds that old use hair thin wires, a fraction of the size of any wire used on even budget earbuds nowadays. While the comfort is subjective and something you may not be able to fix, I've found almost every time I recable an 80s or 90s bud, the wires are so thin they just can't handle any degradation. With a replacement cable applied made with superior copper, a  lot of  these old buds that barely stick out amongst modern ones suddenly become champions.
  
 Anyway, if you don't want to do the DIY work yourself, there are others here who might.....


----------



## Nachash

double


----------



## Nachash

tinkertailor said:


> On the topic of the Qian39. I do like the sound sig of mine a lot however i found it not the highest quality compared to even a monk plus. I tested it here: http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php and it distorted very badly at the bass test. I was wondering if others could test there qian39s ...if mine is the only one that distorts i may have to order another pair.


 

 Can confirm this, I've tested all my earbuds and:
  
 Qian39 - rattle
 **** PT15 - no rattle
 Darth Monk - no rattle
 Ty32 - no rattle
 She3800 - no rattle
 Qian25 - rattle


----------



## vapman

nachash said:


> Can confirm this


 
 What are you confirming? I tried two pairs and no distortion.


----------



## DavidRrofel

Neither mine, not distorted bass at all.


----------



## DBaldock9

vapman said:


> Don't get rid of them. A lot of buds that old use hair thin wires, a fraction of the size of any wire used on even budget earbuds nowadays. While the comfort is subjective and something you may not be able to fix, I've found almost every time I recable an 80s or 90s bud, the wires are so thin they just can't handle any degradation. With a replacement cable applied made with superior copper, a  lot of  these old buds that barely stick out amongst modern ones suddenly become champions.
> 
> Anyway, if you don't want to do the DIY work yourself, there are others here who might.....


 

 The one set that I'm sure is old -
*Panasonic EAH-Z31* (purchased along with a 1988 CD Walkman) - Earbud, 16Ω, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable.
 These would probably be more comfortable if I added some foam covers, but they wouldn't isolate as well, when trying to get a seal in my ear opening.  They also wouldn't fit in their fitted plastic storage case.
  
 I found a set of earbuds with a 2.5mm TRS (not TRRS) plug in my desk drawer last month, and I don't remember ever owning anything with a 2.5mm jack, until my recent DP-X1 purchase.  Either they're really old, or they were left at my place by my parents, one time when they were passing through.


----------



## Nachash

vapman said:


> What are you confirming? I tried two pairs and no distortion.


 

 I've updated the post, I can clearly hear a distortion in the left driver as soon as the test starts. I'm talking about the bass shaker test
  
 It does distort only with the two qians that I have


----------



## notamethlab

Recabled she3800 and meizu 21hd  I can hear difference in both of them, very happy with the results. 


Also received the fareal 32ohm


----------



## vapman

notamethlab said:


> Recabled she3800 and meizu 21hd
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Both lookin good bro!!!!!! It is awesome you are part of DIY crew now.
  
 My big question to you is can you quickly compare Yinman 150 and SHE3800 with the new cable. I always thought Yinman 150 sounded like a more refined 3800. Is the gap between those two smaller now?


----------



## notamethlab

vapman said:


> Both lookin good bro!!!!!! It is awesome you are part of DIY crew now.
> 
> My big question to you is can you quickly compare Yinman 150 and SHE3800 with the new cable. I always thought Yinman 150 sounded like a more refined 3800. Is the gap between those two smaller now?




Will do  it'll have to be later tonight as I'm going out for a while right now.


----------



## vapman

notamethlab said:


> Will do
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 No rush it's all good homie.


----------



## DBaldock9

dbaldock9 said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > Don't get rid of them. A lot of buds that old use hair thin wires, a fraction of the size of any wire used on even budget earbuds nowadays. While the comfort is subjective and something you may not be able to fix, I've found almost every time I recable an 80s or 90s bud, the wires are so thin they just can't handle any degradation. With a replacement cable applied made with superior copper, a  lot of  these old buds that barely stick out amongst modern ones suddenly become champions.
> ...




Here's the 1988 Panasonic earbuds - 













Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## tinkertailor

dbaldock9 said:


> Here's the 1988 Panasonic earbuds -


 
 That casing is pretty cool anyways


----------



## vapman

It is a very cool case indeed. Obviously i can't say for sure yet but it *looks* like a replacement cable would be able to be coiled on just fine. What may be tricky is replacing those strain reliefs... Which look to be part of the cable.


----------



## silverfishla

Besides the ****, what buds have an mmxc connector? Any price range is fine.


----------



## DBaldock9

tinkertailor said:


> That casing is pretty cool anyways


 
 I just put some (doughnut shaped, with the hole through the middle) foam covers on the earbuds, and they actually fit & sound pretty good, listening to _Clannad_ & _Loreena McKennitt_ streamed from Spotify.  The only issue is some audio dropouts when the 3.5mm plug is moved, so it needs a good cleaning.


----------



## vapman

dbaldock9 said:


> I just put some (doughnut shaped, with the hole through the middle) foam covers on the earbuds, and they actually fit & sound pretty good, listening to _Clannad_ & _Loreena McKennitt_ streamed from Spotify.  The only issue is some audio dropouts when the 3.5mm plug is moved, so it needs a good cleaning.




Do you have isopropyl alcohol? Some on a paper towel on the 3.5mm plug should solve it.


----------



## DBaldock9

vapman said:


> It is a very cool case indeed. Obviously i can't say for sure yet but it *looks* like a replacement cable would be able to be coiled on just fine. What may be tricky is replacing those strain reliefs... Which look to be part of the cable.




A couple of closeup photos of the right earpiece - 













In the last one, I can see that the cable moves independently from the strain relief. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## vapman

dbaldock9 said:


> A couple of closeup photos of the right earpiece -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the photos!
 Well, no need to fix what ain't broke, right? (Not that I follow this rule myself enough.)
  
 I know some Panasonics of this one's era inspired the Mojito. However, I'm not sure if that's a visual or audible inspiration.


----------



## DBaldock9

vapman said:


> Do you have isopropyl alcohol? Some on a paper towel on the 3.5mm plug should solve it.


 
 Yep, already taken care of, using my bottle of 99% pure (pharmacy grade) Isopropyl Alcohol.


----------



## vapman

dbaldock9 said:


> Yep, already taken care of, using my bottle of 99% pure (pharmacy grade) Isopropyl Alcohol.


 
 Good to hear it man 
  
 I saw your list of inbound earbuds on the last page. I am glad you have Asura 2.0 coming in. That one gets overlooked far too often, but has been a personal favorite for quite a while. I plan to recable mine sometime soon, when I get some fancier wire to work with.


----------



## DBaldock9

silverfishla said:


> Besides the ****, what buds have an mmxc connector? Any price range is fine.


 
 I'm not familiar with the other marketplaces, but on AliExpress, you can find several models from Rose [$108.10 - $276.77], the Yinman 600Ω model [$141.60], and the Daik DK-Song.  I just received a pair of the DK-Song, and they were $46.95, without a cable.
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## Saoshyant

silverfishla said:


> Besides the ****, what buds have an mmxc connector? Any price range is fine.


 
  
 Yinman 600 & DK Song are both MMCX earbuds.  Both can be found on Aliexpress.


----------



## fairx

I love my qian39. Superb layering and very good resolution. However I have some (really) minor gripe 

1.i wish the dynamic is better. No matter how good the resolution is I found that qian39 lacks dynamic, even when compared to ty32 for instance. 

2. I wish the basses are sculpted better. 

3. I wish it to be huge and deep at the same time. 

Well realistically speaking. I'm asking too much. qian39 is already very very good for its price. 

The question is. Is there anything that share qian39 characteristics that also fulfilled the criteria above?

A combined qualities of qian39 and my ty Hp320 ohm would be a killer.


----------



## knudsen

Agree on no. 1 (maybe 2 and 3 too, just haven't realized it yet..). I think it's also one of the reasons I can turn the volume up rather high without discomfort, as the dynamics are a bit restrained.
  
 Maybe cheapest is to try different cables on the 39? 
  
 But would love to hear what the natural upgrade would be
  
 Quote:


fairx said:


> I love my qian39. Superb layering and very good resolution. However I have some (really) minor gripe
> 
> 1.i wish the dynamic is better. No matter how good the resolution is I found that qian39 lacks dynamic, even when compared to ty32 for instance.
> 
> ...


----------



## fairx

1. I'm comparing dynamic with my tomahawk 
2. I'm comparing the bass with ty Hp320 / monk+
3. I'm comparing stage with ty Hp320

I'm saving for pricier earbud. Hopefully some of the current. TOTL can fulfill my wish.


----------



## springbay

herzhz said:


>


 
 Thank you! I will look into it.
  


smith said:


> How are you finding the cable for the Red Demun and how are they sounding now ? I am loving the Edimun V3 and thinking about getting the Red Demun as well now......


 
  
 To be honest, I haven't given the Red Demun much time since I've been concentrating on getting the Edimun V3 to sound decent. And the Edimuns are "getting there" the more hours they get.
 I use them for commuting to work and they do a good job running from my Iphone 6s in a scenario when I'm already in a noisy environment. But they lack too much detail and distinct bass for listening to more demanding music at home. Now during the winter, the stiff cables are no problem since I'm wearing clothes that keeps everything in place. I suppose the cables can be a big issue when the weather gets warmer and I'll loose the winter jacket and cap.
  
 The cables on the Red Demun are quite stiff as well, but the build quality is much better. Left and right bud are clearly marked and there is a plastic ring on the cable so you can adjust left and right cable to stay put all the way up to your chin. I've used them for commuting one day this week as well. But the sound signature is too bright to be used with K-rap and K-pop to filter out the shrieking noise on the public transportation (Italian built trams that don't do well at all in the Swedish winter). I haven't given them enough time to evaluate if the sound signature will change on these like the Edimun V3.
  
 If the cable is your only concern with the Red Demun, then it's a non issue. The build quality is very good.
  
 At the same time I would like to address the hype trains that goes on in this thread. Both these shop buds are really good, but regardless of how much burn in they will receive I can't ever see the Edimun V3 Rho compete with K's 500 in the bass region (or detail for that matter) or the Red Demun compete with the mids, highs or detail of the Rose Mojitos. What they might be best in its class would be the looks. The Red Demuns are as sexy as ear buds will ever be. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


dbaldock9 said:


> I may run by the house at Lunch, and take a closer look at that area of the package - to see what numbers are actually printed there.
> 
> But, my impression of what's written in the descriptions of the EO303 and EO320 on the web pages, is that only the phone control module has been updated, to control iPhones as well as Android phones.  The specs and images of the actual earbuds are the same.  I don't need iPhone control, so the one I ordered is fine, and $10 cheaper.
> 
> ...


 
  
 My experience from these buds:
 EO303 - mids, mids, mids and nothing but mids. I've formerly stated that I believe the tuner of that model must be tone deaf.
 EO320 - devil bass, supreme devil bass, like having a sub woofer in each ear. Quite decent in the mids and highs as well, but lacking detail.


----------



## DBaldock9

springbay said:


> ...
> 
> My experience from these buds:
> EO303 - mids, mids, mids and nothing but mids. I've formerly stated that I believe the tuner of that model must be tone deaf.
> EO320 - devil bass, supreme devil bass, like having a sub woofer in each ear. Quite decent in the mids and highs as well, but lacking detail.


 
 Playing the 10 Hz - 200 Hz tones on - http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php - with my Onkyo DP-X1, and listening to the EO303, I can begin hearing the Bass at 20 Hz, and clearly hear it from 30 Hz on up.  
  
 I'll bet the EO320 would be pretty impressive.


----------



## notamethlab

vapman said:


> Both lookin good bro!!!!!! It is awesome you are part of DIY crew now.
> 
> My big question to you is can you quickly compare Yinman 150 and SHE3800 with the new cable. I always thought Yinman 150 sounded like a more refined 3800. Is the gap between those two smaller now?



Call me crazy but from what I'm hearing the 3800 with upgraded cable is a yinman 150 with better bass. Mids and highs are almost identical, the difference is minimal. The yinman does have a wider soundstage, also more airier than the 3800. Details are better on the 150 but, the 3800 doesn't fall short. 

This is what I heard though ymmv.


----------



## vapman

notamethlab said:


> Call me crazy but from what I'm hearing the 3800 with upgraded cable is a yinman 150 with better bass. Mids and highs are almost identical, the difference is minimal. The yinman does have a wider soundstage, also more airier than the 3800. Details are better on the 150 but, the 3800 doesn't fall short.
> 
> This is what I heard though ymmv.


 
 Yeeeeeee that is what I was hoping I'd hear!
  
 Okay SHE3800 you're next


----------



## fairx

already ordered my 3rd she3800. Broken driver, give to relatives and this time I'm gonna keep it to myself + recable for sure.


----------



## vapman

I am not a big fan of the Ucotech after all. It satisfies on having crazy forward mids but is too bright for me. Anyone in the usa who wants to give them a try, feel free to contact, i can send them out for free.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Free? no such thing.


----------



## vapman

midnightempest said:


> Free? no such thing.


 
 I guess if $3-4 for return shipping is a big deal


----------



## flamesofarctica

golov17 said:


> Also one good cheap bass-buds. Recommended  http://s.aliexpress.com/BFfY7Bva
> 
> 
> 
> ...




These arrived yesterday, from what I've listened to so far this was a great recommendation @golov17


----------



## Willber

flamesofarctica said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > Also one good cheap bass-buds. Recommended
> ...


 
  
 Good looking cable and splitter, reminds me of my KZ ATE which I like a lot.


----------



## fairx

flamesofarctica said:


> These arrived yesterday, from what I've listened to so far this was a great recommendation @golov17



Can't wait for your impressions. Hopefully another budget champion.


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman How much did the Ucotech run?


----------



## Majin

After testing almost all the budget options except Qian39 my preference is
  
 1. VE Monk
 2. Qian25
 3.Ty hi-z 32 for the bassheads - Sony +808E for the fit
 4. Philips 3800 (albeit only one side worked)
  
 Since diminishing returns plays such a big part in earbuds i dont know if i should spend more for a little upgrade.


----------



## MRK1

What's the latest flavor of the month earbud around here? Been out of the addiction for a while.
  
 My favourite by the way is still the Auglamour RX1, the clarity, detail and balance in these is ridiculously good and so is the build quality. WAY better than the Monk imo. All of this using the heavy donut foams from the monk expansion pack.


----------



## Ira Delphic

For fit the Sony E808+ is #1, and qian39 a close second. Unfortunately one of my favorites, **** PT15 lags in terms of fit. Good old mx500 type shell, TY hp650 for example, is very good. This is for my ears so ymmv!


----------



## jant71

How much bigger is the Sony than the Qian??
  
 Any know of DIY type buds that use the Senn MX880 housing?? My all time favorite for fit but that cable and VC  plus sound you get for $20 and under these days. I did see a long time ago they were selling the housings on taobao as well as a couple of buds using it. This was quite a ways back though so I am probably looking for a needle in the proverbial haystack for this now.


----------



## mochill

majin said:


> After testing almost all the budget options except Qian39 my preference is
> 
> 1. VE Monk
> 2. Qian25
> ...


VE products are all good and all have different sound so they all all worth the upgrade


----------



## jant71

Anybody try these out yet... https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=1221477&gclid=CI3W_szb-dECFcWLswodjL4FDA&is=REG&ap=y&m=Y&c3api=1876%2C91438732682%2C&Q=&A=details
  
 No sizes but actually look a little better than Earhoox as far as design.


----------



## SuperLuigi

I bought the **** PT15s during the first pre-order stages and I wasn't very impressed with them.  The highs/mids sounded good, but the lack of bass was off putting to me.  It didnt quite sound right.  I remember people saying they worked well with an equalizer but I didnt think it was acceptable that they even needed to be equalized so I just ended up tossing them into a drawer and they've been there for a few months now.

 Well i just found them again, and I want to give them an honest go and see how well they work.  What sort of settings are people using for the PT15s?  I've never really played with equalizers before so not sure what I'm doing. I use my headphones with my Laptop and my Android phone. I dont even know what programs/apps to use to even equalize.
  
 Any suggestions on where I should start?


----------



## Ira Delphic

superluigi said:


> I bought the **** PT15s during the first pre-order stages and I wasn't very impressed with them.  The highs/mids sounded good, but the lack of bass was off putting to me.  It didnt quite sound right.  I remember people saying they worked well with an equalizer but I didnt think it was acceptable that they even needed to be equalized so I just ended up tossing them into a drawer and they've been there for a few months now.
> 
> 
> Well i just found them again, and I want to give them an honest go and see how well they work.  What sort of settings are people using for the PT15s?  I've never really played with equalizers before so not sure what I'm doing. I use my headphones with my Laptop and my Android phone. I dont even know what programs/apps to use to even equalize.
> ...




I use Poweramp player (Android) that has eq as part of it. Either I use a preset or just fiddle with eq on low end. It does respond well bass eq, PT15.


----------



## ATi7500

majin said:


> After testing almost all the budget options except Qian39 my preference is
> 
> 1. VE Monk
> 2. Qian25
> ...


 

 ​I like both the Qian25 and the SHE3800. Just curious, what makes you prefer the Qian?


----------



## Karl2009

vapman said:


> I was inspired to keep going after not screwing up those qian. I finally decided to junk the Sone E828 stock cable. Now this made me nervous! Oldest buds i have easily. Plus i forgot to mark which side had which cable but i got it right first try... Immediately off the bat, more bass. I will replace the jack on it with a rhodium one later (pictured)
> 
> 
> 
> The stock cable:


 

 Some indications how to open them for recabling? A guide with pics would be grateful.


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> vapman How much did the Ucotech run?




70 even including ems shipping from Korea. Barely above 50 if you don't include ems.



karl2009 said:


> Some indications how to open them for recabling? A guide with pics would be grateful.




You can pull off the rubber rings and then there is a space you can wedge a flathead into to pop off the front covers.


----------



## ProspektFi

I was listening to my PT15 and something didn't convince me... First impression was good, with a nicely airy sound, but after listening more and more I felt like the "3D imaging" has something wrong compared to any other headphone I own. So I tried the Audiocheck Binaural Test with all my buds and the result is that PT15 is the absolute loser! All my other earbuds sounded quite realistic (Auglamour RX1 clear winner, really impressive!), but with the **** I hear less distance and less defined sound location.
  
 So a tried with a binaural recording on Youtube that I like to use for this kind of testings:

  
 With all my other 'buds, at about 0:43, I can clearly hear the car on straight on the left going forward and reaching the Parabolica (a big right turn). It's like I can clearly understand at what distance is the car from me. With the PT15, this is not possibile: I feel that the car stay closer, and the "going forward" effect is almost inaudible...


 At this point, I think there are two options:
  
 1. **** PT15 has fake "3D effect".
 2. My pair is faulty.
  
  
 I would be happy if some of you can do the same tests, comparing PT15 with some other earbuds, to know what's the truth. I didn't used particularly technical terms as I'm not an expert, but I hope you understand what I mean 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Thanks in advance.


----------



## vapman

prospektfi said:


> At this point, I think there are two options:
> 
> 1. **** PT15 has fake "3D effect".
> 2. My pair is faulty.
> ...


 
 When I get new earbuds I do a "gaming test" with them, I play some counter strike on the PC where channel separation is VERY distinct and important for directional spacing. I find over 3/4 of the buds I try sadly make hardly any distinction between sound coming from the left only or sound from the right only. My PT15 which i did not think were faulty were no good for gaming in terms of channel separation.
  
 The only ones I know which are good enough at spacial direction and channel separation to be reliable at this sort of this thing in both gaming and videos such as yours.... Cygnus, Boarseman mx98s, seahf 32 if you can stand that sort of piercing treble in game (I could not).


----------



## SuperLuigi

ira delphic said:


> I use Poweramp player (Android) that has eq as part of it. Either I use a preset or just fiddle with eq on low end. It does respond well bass eq, PT15.


 
  
 Is there anything that changes all the system settings on android?  I usually use youtube, or listen to spotify and podcasts on my phone, and I dont think any of those have equalizers.


----------



## notamethlab

Found these at the flea market today, couldn't find much info about them. Sound is ok, nothing great. The main reason I got them is because they look pretty old, maybe from the 90's? 

Wish I could find more old buds like these


----------



## Willber

> Originally Posted by *SuperLuigi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I use my headphones with my Laptop and my Android phone. I dont even know what programs/apps to use to even equalize.
> 
> Any suggestions on where I should start?


 
  
 On my laptop I use this equalizer:
  
 https://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/
  
 with this compatible GUI:
  
 https://sourceforge.net/projects/peace-equalizer-apo-extension/
  
 Very comprehensive yet easy to use.


----------



## purplesun

prospektfi said:


> I would be happy if some of you can do the same tests, comparing PT15 with some other earbuds, to know what's the truth. I didn't used particularly technical terms as I'm not an expert, but I hope you understand what I mean
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Works OK with both TY Hi-Z 32s & stock E808+. I think E808+ was a bit more precise. IMO, the sound test around 7minutes (Ascari) was the most telling indicator. As the approaching & departing vehicles did not make use of the maximum left-right stereo width, so the earphones needed to have quite precise spatial placement to get it right.


----------



## rkw

Yinman 600 is very, very good.
  


  
 I don't have many earbuds to compare. My other current earbuds are Yuin PK2, 1More E1008, Monk+, Zen2 (not Black), and Auglamour RX-1. My reference is balanced HD650 on Jotunheim.
  
 I listen primarily to classical music. The important thing for classical is neutral response and ability to convey a realistic sound of live acoustic instruments. Earbuds tuned for "fun" sound make classical music sound unnatural. Monk+, Zen2, and RX-1 fail for classical. Yuin (I've owned different models over the years) and E1008 are good for classical, and now Yinman 600.
  
 Yinman 600 is the first earbud I own that I would describe as "audiophile". Treble and bass performance are far beyond the others in my group. Highs are extended, detailed and smooth, producing good soundstage and imaging. The tight and fast bass is stronger and extends lower than I've ever heard from an earbud. The frequency response has a bump in the bass, more than I'd like but not too much to detract from the music. The word "audiophile" came to my mind because it is able to convey some of that palpable presence of live sound, an elusive quality in audio systems.
  
 The Yinman 600 requires serious power. On my Jotunheim, I have to turn the volume higher than for my balanced HD650 (known for being power hungry). Directly on my MacBook Pro, it can be driven loud enough but sound quality is lower.
  
 And... just as I was thinking how much I am enjoying the Yinman 600, I compared it to my HD650. Whoa, the HD650 is on a completely higher level in every aspect of sound – detail, dynamics, realism, etc, and it highlights the limitations of earbuds. Still, I listen to music more on earbuds than anything else. The HD650 feels like putting on a helmet.


----------



## Frederick Wang

golov17 said:


> Officially: Yinman500 some of the best for me. 100 h burns. Highly recommended. Donut foams




sir Golov, how does yinman 500 compare to pt15 in terms of clarity, soundstage, instruments separation?

Thanks!


----------



## Frederick Wang

hmmm, several days away from the forum it seems some new enticing choices have surfaced: Yinman 500, ucotech es903, Diomnes Lv2...


----------



## Townyj

frederick wang said:


> hmmm, several days away from the forum it seems some new enticing choices have surfaced: Yinman 500, ucotech es903, Diomnes Lv2...


 
  
 I will help you out and say that the Diomnes is now end of life. You might be able to hunt one up second hand.


----------



## alvinlim2010

prospektfi said:


> I was listening to my PT15 and something didn't convince me... First impression was good, with a nicely airy sound, but after listening more and more I felt like the "3D imaging" has something wrong compared to any other headphone I own. So I tried the Audiocheck Binaural Test with all my buds and the result is that PT15 is the absolute loser! All my other earbuds sounded quite realistic (Auglamour RX1 clear winner, really impressive!), but with the **** I hear less distance and less defined sound location.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




 


I gotten my PT15, and I thought they works quite well, though fit can be an issue. I will need to reposition them every now and then. Once there is a proper fit, mids come through quite nicely (though not as prominent compared to my RX1) and bass, while lacking a little, is sufficient enough. I don't experience any of the fake 3D effect though. 

Has anyone tried switching out the cable? Does it scale well with other cables?


----------



## vapman

frederick wang said:


> hmmm, several days away from the forum it seems some new enticing choices have surfaced: Yinman 500, ucotech es903, Diomnes Lv2...




Ucotech is for mid/treble lovers only really


----------



## Frederick Wang

oops, hope diomnes pass the wheel of life and reincarnate in some form soon...


----------



## fairx

Again, this is for some people experiencing distortion bass on qian39. Today my right driver distort. Open up and blow gently. But still distort. Put it back together in slight different way than original and no more distortion. Anybody affected by qian39 distortion can try this tips.


----------



## Nachash

prospektfi said:


> I was listening to my PT15 and something didn't convince me... First impression was good, with a nicely airy sound, but after listening more and more I felt like the "3D imaging" has something wrong compared to any other headphone I own. So I tried the Audiocheck Binaural Test with all my buds and the result is that PT15 is the absolute loser! All my other earbuds sounded quite realistic (Auglamour RX1 clear winner, really impressive!), but with the **** I hear less distance and less defined sound location.
> 
> So a tried with a binaural recording on Youtube that I like to use for this kind of testings:
> 
> ...





 will do later


----------



## fairx

I spoke too soon. Now the rattle in right driver is back with sub bass heavy track. Alexis Cole albums aren't listenable. Noooooo.....!! Most other album with heavy mid bass are ok though. Just with sub bass. Seems like driver flex or out of place. I dare not look inside until replacement arrives. 

Just order another backup replacement. . ~sigh.


----------



## Saoshyant

Well after a month since the post office got it my 1More earbud has surfaced in Connecticut. As this is an 11.11 purchase I kind of gave up on it's arrival.


----------



## golov17

frederick wang said:


> sir Golov, how does yinman 500 compare to pt15 in terms of clarity, soundstage, instruments separation?
> 
> Thanks!


 my **** drivers crash


----------



## Joy Boy

townyj said:


> I will help you out and say that the Diomnes is now end of life. You might be able to hunt one up second hand.







frederick wang said:


> oops, hope diomnes pass the wheel of life and reincarnate in some form soon...



I heard some news that they got a couple of drivers for diomnes. But i cant confirm if they will produce it soon or wait for another couple drivers

---------------------------------------

Anyone here already had or tried this awesome looking earbud?


Someone in indonesian local group shared it today. 
After read first impression, i could say that this is the only bud that totally draw out my attention for a few months later.
If possible, i want to know another impression from someone here as the second opinion before i decide to purchase it


----------



## Frederick Wang

golov17 said:


> my **** drivers crash


----------



## AudioNewbi3

rkw said:


> Yinman 600 is very, very good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You can try out the Rose Mojito too.


----------



## Saoshyant

rkw said:


> Yinman 600 is very, very good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You're REALLY not helping me out here.  I've been debating buying this for a month and a half, and the only thing I read in your review that might cause concern is the power hungry nature of it.  Honestly, if members like Golov and Vapman at all push me towards buying it, I probably would break quite soon.


----------



## SuperLuigi

willber said:


> On my laptop I use this equalizer:
> 
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the links!  I'm going to try these out this afternoon!
  
 How does everyone wear the PT15?  Naked?  With the foamies?  I think they are some of the worst fitting earbuds i own just due to their size and weight.  I cant wear them outside of the house as they always fall out or get loose very easily.


----------



## tinkertailor

They do fit badly, i use tightest fitting foams i can, monk foams are not that good for them imo because they are so fuzzy. Might even consider using rubber on **** if its got grip. How heavy is your cable. I recently got a lighter cable which doesn't create as much drag and they dont fall out as much.


----------



## rkw

joy boy said:


> Anyone here already had or tried this awesome looking earbud?
> 
> 
> Someone in indonesian local group shared it today.
> ...


 
  
 It's the 1More E1008. I have it and like it a lot. Clean neutral sound with smooth highs and good bass. Very solid, premium build.
  
 The metal earpiece is very slippery and won't stay in the ear unless you use the silicon rings or foams (I use both together).


----------



## golov17

BK more better than Cygnus. Very good


----------



## Saoshyant

I would certainly hope so!


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> I would certainly hope so!


Really best


----------



## cocolinho

@golov17 still bass light the BK/Stardut?


----------



## Saoshyant

cocolinho said:


> @golov17
> still bass light the BK/Stardut?




Also curious about that.


----------



## golov17

cocolinho said:


> @golov17
> still bass light the BK/Stardut?


no, good bass, nice vocal, trebles better too


----------



## Saoshyant

Hmm, tempting


----------



## AkashS04

Which one is with the Boomiest Bass and Warmness. TY Hi-Z 32 or Sony 808+. Also, any site which can deliver them fast and not in 40 days.


----------



## mochill




----------



## Saoshyant

mochill said:


>




Do not tell Vapman


----------



## mochill

I will not


----------



## aoitenshi6509

Hi,
 Just want to share my stock MonkPlus Purple (I call it MonkPlus Widow) and recabled MonkPlus Purple
  

  
 The upgraded cable has more speedy bass, especially when listening to double pedals
 Vocals are a bit forward, causing the soundstage is more narrow than the stock MonkPlus Purple
  
 I use the upgraded MonkPlus Widow to listen metal songs from Disturbed, Lamb of God, Epica, Children of Bodom
 owh, I use the donut foams to get better feel for the double pedals
 The DAP was my laptop, ThinkPad W510 with usb dac creative soundblaster E5
  
 The modded MonkPlus Widow was provided to me from one of local Indonesian earbuds builder


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> Well after a month since the post office got it my 1More earbud has surfaced in Connecticut. As this is an 11.11 purchase I kind of gave up on it's arrival.




Surely it must be past the 65 day money back delivery guarantee. I would apply for that refund



golov17 said:


> Really best




Is it really the best at details?


aoitenshi6509 cool buds. What kind of wire is the purple wire?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

So, I did have the *Rose Mojito* (first gen) for a few weeks, but they were just not working out for me and I ended up sending them back.
  
 That said, I might have a chance to get my hands/ears on the *Rose Masya* now.  So if anyone can save me from reading through this whole thread.  What was the difference between the *Rose Masya* and the *Rose Mojito *again? 
  
 Thanks.
  
 --


----------



## 1TrickPony

golov17 said:


> no, good bass, nice vocal, trebles better too




nice black theme going on. glad you're sporting the new Xuelin dap. it may not be super mid fi category, but it makes for a good listen! how are the vocals on the shozy? female in particular?


----------



## golov17

1trickpony said:


> nice black theme going on. glad you're sporting the new Xuelin dap. it may not be super mid fi category, but it makes for a good listen! how are the vocals on the shozy? female in particular?


vocal awesome


----------



## Majin

akashs04 said:


> Which one is with the Boomiest Bass and Warmness. TY Hi-Z 32 or Sony 808+. Also, any site which can deliver them fast and not in 40 days.


 
 Go for the TY Hi-Z 32


----------



## silverfishla

I have both the Rose Mojito (3d printed version) and the Masya (Carbon Fibre version).  The Rose Mojito is well balanced with clarity all the way down to the sub bass.  The Maysa is more "punchy" sounding and is concentrated more on the vocals (which are fantastic in my opinion).  The Mojito is also very good with vocals too (very clear) but are a bit further back in the mix.  In the Masya description, it states that the cord made for vocals.  In a way, that must be true because if you switch the cords on the Mojito and Masya, you can get the Mojito's sound to move toward the Masya and conversely, have the Masya settle down it's punchiness (which I like) down a bit and sound a bit more "all around".  The Mojito is able to take amplification better (in my opinion, if that's your thing) because the bass gets more thick and luxurious.  The Masya gets a bit more aggressive when amped but doesn't really improve the bass section in comparison, because although it gets more agressive, it doesn't necessarily get more expansive or engulfing. 
 I really like them both, though.  Masya has great central focus and makes something like (Rockabilly or straight Rock) or vocal focus (like the Carpenters or Diana Ross records) sound great.  Mojito is more the all-rounder.


bloodypenguin said:


> So, I did have the *Rose Mojito* (first gen) for a few weeks, but they were just not working out for me and I ended up sending them back.
> 
> That said, I might have a chance to get my hands/ears on the *Rose Masya* now.  So if anyone can save me from reading through this whole thread.  What was the difference between the *Rose Masya* and the *Rose Mojito *again?
> 
> ...


----------



## silverfishla

bloodypenguin said:


> So, I did have the *Rose Mojito* (first gen) for a few weeks, but they were just not working out for me and I ended up sending them back.
> 
> That said, I might have a chance to get my hands/ears on the *Rose Masya* now.  So if anyone can save me from reading through this whole thread.  What was the difference between the *Rose Masya* and the *Rose Mojito *again?
> 
> ...


 

 Also, I didn't fall in love with the Mojito until I put a rubber ring, Monk thin foam, and a Monk donut on it.  After that, they fit my ears perfectly, sealed up a bit and came alive.  I ordered the Masya's soon after figuring out the perfect combo of foams for me for the Mojito.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

silverfishla said:


> I have both the Rose Mojito (3d printed version) and the Masya (Carbon Fibre version)....


 
   


silverfishla said:


> Also, I didn't fall in love with the Mojito until I put a rubber ring, Monk thin foam, and a Monk donut on it.  After that, they fit my ears perfectly, sealed up a bit and came alive.  I ordered the Masya's soon after figuring out the perfect combo of foams for me for the Mojito.


 

  
  
 Awesome information, thank you so much for taking the time to write all of that! 
  
 --


----------



## silverfishla

bloodypenguin said:


> Awesome information, thank you so much for taking the time to write all of that!
> 
> --


 

 No probs.  Just my opinions  haha.  I think earbuds are the hardest to give opinions on.  Someone might say something like "Wow, I love treble and these have such a big airy soundstage!"  In my head, I'm thinking, "Yeah, you don't have those in your ears right."


----------



## aoitenshi6509

vapman said:


> aoitenshi6509 cool buds. What kind of wire is the purple wire?




I'm not sure if it is a silver cable.... I'll ask the builder and I will tell you


----------



## rkw

saoshyant said:


> You're REALLY not helping me out here.  I've been debating buying this for a month and a half, and the only thing I read in your review that might cause concern is the power hungry nature of it.  Honestly, if members like Golov and Vapman at all push me towards buying it, I probably would break quite soon.


 
  
 I think I'm the first in this thread to post ownership of Yinman 600, so I don't think they have it. I took a chance and bought mine blind, based on the feedback for the 150 and 500 versions. After my negative experience with Zen2 and its resonating shell that adds reverb, I've been drawn towards buds with acoustically inert housing that won't add coloration to the sound. That describes the Yinman, and I also like that it's unique and not a generic earbud design. I considered the Puresounds 600 when it received high praise, but I hesitate because its shell looks like Zen2.


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> Do not tell Vapman







mochill said:


> I will not




You sneaky dudes almost had me but 

That isn't puresounds is it? Plug doesn't look like mine. But shell looks similar...


----------



## alvinlim2010

It is definitely interesting to see the earbuds segment getting so much love! From the VE Monks (which I own as well) all the way to the lineup of Rose and other higher-grade ones. Sadly I only own a few earbuds (Monks, Yuin PK2, **** PT15, Auglamour RX1), so I am not yet exposed to the higher-grade ones. Could anyone share, does the price-to-performance ratio in earbuds scale up similarly like IEMs?


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman said:


> You sneaky dudes almost had me but
> 
> That isn't puresounds is it? Plug doesn't look like mine. But shell looks similar...




I do believe it's a pure custom job


----------



## boblauer

They're talking about in the Facebook Ear buds Anonymous page that Justin started so maybe he'll get the info and post here.


----------



## DBaldock9

There were no result for doing a search in this Thread for "Mantis".
  
 Has anyone tried the Mantis C7, which has a 14.2mm driver?  (image of the box also shows the word "Celebrat")
  
 It's currently $12.99, from this AliExpress shop - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Mantis-Professional-14-2mm-Big-Drive-Unit-HiFi-Earphone-Music-Stereo-Noise-Canceling-Earbuds-Earphones-With/32791363001.html
  
 Take Care,
 David Baldock


----------



## Robert Turnbull

akashs04 said:


> Which one is with the Boomiest Bass and Warmness. TY Hi-Z 32 or Sony 808+. Also, any site which can deliver them fast and not in 40 days.



AK Store ships via SG post which i find is faster than CN or HK.. but dont know if it is the same for your location


----------



## alvinlim2010

robert turnbull said:


> AK Store ships via SG post which i find is faster than CN or HK.. but dont know if it is the same for your location



 


Personally I have great experience dealing with AK store (no I don't work for them haha); very polite and accommodating. I opted for express shipping once and it reaches Singapore within 5 days.


----------



## vapman

dbaldock9 said:


> There were no result for doing a search in this Thread for "Mantis".
> 
> Has anyone tried the Mantis C7, which has a 14.2mm driver?  (image of the box also shows the word "Celebrat")
> 
> ...


 
 David I am not sure we have encountered this model before. It also doesn't seem to have any sales. I am curious if this model is known at all on taobao.
  
 BTW - There are not a lot of 14.2mm driver units on the market. the well acclaimed yuin and cygnus are some of them. You can get yuin style shells easily but the right size drivers, not so much. I have also had a few china earbuds which seemed to be open back like those but were really closed back with a fake vent. Hopefully that really is a open design.


----------



## alizeofeniquito

any review on memt x3? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-Sales-X3-1-2M-In-Ear-3-5MM-DIY-Custom-Made-Dynamic-Drive-Unit-Earphone/32712516608.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.22.iUhzBX&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10065_10068_10000074_10000032_119_10000025_10000029_430_10000028_10060_10000067_9999_10062_10056_10055_10000062_10054_301_10059_10099_10000022_10000012_10103_10000015_10102_10096_10000018_10000019_10000056_10000059_10052_10053_10107_10050_10106_10051_10000053_10000007_10000050_10084_10083_10119_10080_10000047_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10115_10116_10037_10033_10000041_10000044_10078_10079_10077_10000038_429_10073_10000035_10120_10121-10050_9999_10116_10120,searchweb201603_1,afswitch_1_afChannel,single_sort_1_default&btsid=3e6903dd-2784-4dec-877e-8aad9ea2fddd


----------



## Saoshyant

alizeofeniquito said:


> any review on memt x3? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-Sales-X3-1-2M-In-Ear-3-5MM-DIY-Custom-Made-Dynamic-Drive-Unit-Earphone/32712516608.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.22.iUhzBX&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10065_10068_10000074_10000032_119_10000025_10000029_430_10000028_10060_10000067_9999_10062_10056_10055_10000062_10054_301_10059_10099_10000022_10000012_10103_10000015_10102_10096_10000018_10000019_10000056_10000059_10052_10053_10107_10050_10106_10051_10000053_10000007_10000050_10084_10083_10119_10080_10000047_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10115_10116_10037_10033_10000041_10000044_10078_10079_10077_10000038_429_10073_10000035_10120_10121-10050_9999_10116_10120,searchweb201603_1,afswitch_1_afChannel,single_sort_1_default&btsid=3e6903dd-2784-4dec-877e-8aad9ea2fddd




Only seen comments of the X5.


----------



## herzhz

When the buds found it soulmate.
 Small yet powerfull dap meet a pair of sexy-ass beautiful high-power consuming earbuds.

 Arent they cute?


----------



## vapman

herzhz said:


> When the buds found it soulmate.
> Small yet powerfull dap meet a pair of sexy-ass beautiful high-power consuming earbuds.
> 
> Arent they cute?


 
 is that copper litz? i love to use those rhodium connectors too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 i would like to hear those. i have heard no bud with better bass & eq-ability than my qian-mod


----------



## Pulpfiction

Just a quick post to chime in on the HE150 earbud sold by Penon, as reviewed by Justin Miner here !
 Thanks for pointing these out @BloodyPenguin  .
  
 Really good value, I'm impressed! Probably only have 10 to 15 hrs on these now, running them from my rooted S4 with custom kernel & PowerAmp - just my quick 2cts.
  
 Really good bass for an earbud. Both bass extension as well as tightness, much better than the budget kings Monk v1 & Ty HP32 v1 (though they are about half the price  ). Loads better than Qian39, which have good extention but a very wooly / slow bass response imo, those really lack impact. I'm aggressively EQing the subbass up, and giving some extra power to the mids too, handles it totally fine and I can up the volume just about up to ear damage without distortion, in bass and total volume these totally blow the former out of the water. 
  
 Weak point: I noticed vocals have a tendency to get sibilant and (extra) digital sounding, without EQ they're mids are also a little recessed. They take EQ very well though. Soundstage is very decent (on my pair in my ears), slightly poorer layering & seperation than both Monk v1 and HP32v1 but still decent. A bit 'further away' sounding than Monk v1 but closer than HP32v1.
  
@vapman Did you try these yet? For the price you should, to get your bass fix on the go  .
  
 Lastly, nice build quality! The L-connecter will make a big difference in durability, and it feels sturdy. The carrying case it comes in is also sturdy, better than the cheap cases I have been buying off AliExpress.
  
 I use them mostly for EDM and hiphop and can really recommend them for this, they shine here ! Combined with their apparent durability and case, it's an easy on-the-go earbud recommendation for these (or similar) genres.


----------



## vapman

pulpfiction said:


> @vapman Did you try these yet? For the price you should, to get your bass fix on the go  .


 
 I have not heard them yet but would gladly evaluate given the chance.


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, ran into a small issue with my DK-Song.  The lovely cable I bought for it off forums had an issue with the MMCX connector location being too tight a fit, and actually caused a slight rattle sound due to contact during bass.  Swapped cable and problem disappeared.  I suppose there might have been something loose in the connector, and will test with another earbud at some point.  I really dislike the MMCX location on this earbud, but oh well.  Might be another idiotic reason to justify buying Yinman 600.  Yep, I want that earbud.


----------



## JASru

Just a small note.

 Having Shozy BK and **** PT15 I think I reached everything I need from an earbud. Buuuut I really like K's way of sound and I have K's 500 on the way to me. Hopefully before the end of February I can make a review with comparison of K's 64,300 and 500.
 Afaik it is not a complete lineup as there is 150,600 and 1200, but well-oh-well.


----------



## Saoshyant

Isn't K's 1200 something like $900?


----------



## vapman

Is shozy bx/stardust (they are the same... Right?) a limited edition with a finite number or is it like the cygnus which can still be bought?

I still want one but budget does not allow for it so easily... I haven't wanted to get rid of any of my buds in a long time


----------



## music4mhell

vapman said:


> Is shozy bx/stardust (they are the same... Right?) a limited edition with a finite number or is it like the cygnus which can still be bought?
> 
> I still want one but budget does not allow for it so easily... I haven't wanted to get rid of any of my buds in a long time


 
 Shozy BK and Stardust are same .. BK was before release name.. Stardust became official name !


----------



## Townyj

herzhz said:


> When the buds found it soulmate.
> 
> Small yet powerfull dap meet a pair of sexy-ass beautiful high-power consuming earbuds.
> 
> ...




Dietris?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

pulpfiction said:


> Just a quick post to chime in on the HE150 earbud sold by Penon, as reviewed by Justin Miner here !
> Thanks for pointing these out @BloodyPenguin
> .




Glad to hear you are enjoying them!

I also use my pair with my rooted S4 and PoweAmp!

--


----------



## AkashS04

majin said:


> Go for the TY Hi-Z 32


 
 Thanks. Did you try *REMAX 305M? Or *PAIAUDIO PR1.


----------



## Nachash

dbaldock9 said:


> There were no result for doing a search in this Thread for "Mantis".
> 
> Has anyone tried the Mantis C7, which has a 14.2mm driver?  (image of the box also shows the word "Celebrat")
> 
> ...


 

 I may get one, but the shipping is gonna take like 3 months so I really hope that someone else gets it too
  
  


 found this, maybe golov can help us


----------



## AkashS04

Thanks.


----------



## AkashS04

So now I am considering TY Hi-Z 32 Ohm, Remax 305M, PaiAudio PR1 and Qian39. Sony E808+ is also in list. Which is the best option among the above list? I need Rumbling, Boomiest and Head and Heart Shaking Bass with really Warm Sound. What is the Best pick from this list?


----------



## Nachash

akashs04 said:


> So now I am considering TY Hi-Z 32 Ohm, Remax 305M, PaiAudio PR1 and Qian39. Sony E808+ is also in list. Which is the best option among the above list? I need Rumbling, Boomiest and Head and Heart Shaking Bass with really Warm Sound. What is the Best pick from this list?


 

 Get an iem


----------



## Saoshyant

@alizeofeniquito @DBaldock9 I went ahead and ordered the MEMT X3 & 2 Mantis earbuds, so will see how they sound when they show up.


----------



## AkashS04

I am not comfortable with IEM as they create vacuum and not comfortable at all. At least for me. However, I heard JVC FX90 (or 100) long back and it was really nice but I know that after wearing for 30-40 min or an hour, I will start feeling uncomfortable. They create vacuum and I tend to hear my own voice very unnatural sounding and loud with that which makes me feel awkward.


----------



## Saoshyant

Unfortunately due to form factor, the bass you're looking for just doesn't exist in earbuds, at least not the way you describe it.  You'd be better suited with a full sized seeing that IEMs are out, and some full size are portable if that's the main purpose.  Some of the issues with making a truly bassy earbud are shared with open headphones.  I mean yes open headphones can reach a satisfying amount of bass for some, but a true basshead will need a closed can to achieve what they're after.  I might be mistaken and there's an open that pulls it off, but none I've read of yet.  I keep an ear out for bassy earbuds, and have found a few that suit my needs, but I'm no basshead, just prefer a fun signature.


----------



## chinmie

akashs04 said:


> [COLOR=000080]So now I am considering TY Hi-Z 32 Ohm, Remax 305M, PaiAudio PR1 and Qian39. Sony E808+ is also in list. Which is the best option among the above list? I need Rumbling, Boomiest and Head and Heart Shaking Bass with really Warm Sound. What is the Best pick from this list?[/COLOR]




among my earbuds, the TY HI-Z 32s (red cable) with foam has the biggest sub bass and can indeed rumble the head


----------



## AkashS04

I understand that Earbuds might not have that kind of Bass but what I am expecting that it has the best Bass and Warm sound among most of the Earbuds category. That earbud I am looking for. Monk+ I have and another one is RMEI Earbud (both bought from AliExpress). They are just Ok. 
  
 As suggested by Chinmie, he mentioned that  TY HI-Z 32s (red cable) has the Boomiest and Rumbling Bass and Sub Bass. I can try that. Does it make any difference to have Red or other colour cable?


----------



## Nachash

akashs04 said:


> I understand that Earbuds might not have that kind of Bass but what I am expecting that it has the best Bass and Warm sound among most of the Earbuds category. That earbud I am looking for. Monk+ I have and another one is RMEI Earbud (both bought from AliExpress). They are just Ok.
> 
> As suggested by Chinmie, he mentioned that  TY HI-Z 32s (red cable) has the Boomiest and Rumbling Bass and Sub Bass. I can try that. Does it make any difference to have Red or other colour cable?


 

 You're asking the same question since September, you could've got multiple earbuds to try in the meantime


----------



## AkashS04

Problem is that Aliexpress delivers the earbud in 30-40 days. So while O ordered two earbuds, I had some other work also so could not order more. Now open to order at least 1 more earbud.  TY HI-Z 32s (red cable) looks good it seems.


----------



## AkashS04

Can Anyone pls post the link of  TY HI-Z 32s (Red Cable). I cannot see with red Cable or with  32s name. only  TY HI-Z 32 is there.


----------



## Saoshyant

http://penonaudio.com/TY-Hi-Z-HP-32?search=ty%20hi-z


----------



## AkashS04

Thanks. Do they deliver faster than AliExpress? AliExpress takes around 40 days to deliver the earbud. I mean you order and forget it and they will arrive some day.


----------



## ProspektFi

vapman said:


> When I get new earbuds I do a "gaming test" with them, I play some counter strike on the PC where channel separation is VERY distinct and important for directional spacing. I find over 3/4 of the buds I try sadly make hardly any distinction between sound coming from the left only or sound from the right only. My PT15 which i did not think were faulty were no good for gaming in terms of channel separation.
> 
> The only ones I know which are good enough at spacial direction and channel separation to be reliable at this sort of this thing in both gaming and videos such as yours.... Cygnus, Boarseman mx98s, seahf 32 if you can stand that sort of piercing treble in game (I could not).


 
  
  


purplesun said:


> Works OK with both TY Hi-Z 32s & stock E808+. I think E808+ was a bit more precise. IMO, the sound test around 7minutes (Ascari) was the most telling indicator. As the approaching & departing vehicles did not make use of the maximum left-right stereo width, so the earphones needed to have quite precise spatial placement to get it right.


 
  
  


alvinlim2010 said:


> prospektfi said:
> 
> 
> > I was listening to my PT15 and something didn't convince me... First impression was good, with a nicely airy sound, but after listening more and more I felt like the "3D imaging" has something wrong compared to any other headphone I own. So I tried the Audiocheck Binaural Test with all my buds and the result is that PT15 is the absolute loser! All my other earbuds sounded quite realistic (Auglamour RX1 clear winner, really impressive!), but with the **** I hear less distance and less defined sound location.
> ...




  
  


nachash said:


> will do later


 
  
  
 Thank you all.
  
 I want to clarify that I use earbuds for something like 95% music, 4% movies and 1% other, and I'm not a gamer. I've pointed out all that just to understand if my PT15 are defective (but now I think they are not), as I feel that its not precise separation has a negative effect also in simple stereo music. I'm not searching for a new earbud with gaming or binaural audio purpose, but I appreciate your advice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## tinkertailor

prospektfi said:


> I want to clarify that I use earbuds for something like 95% music, 4% movies and 1% other, and I'm not a gamer. I've pointed out all that just to understand if my PT15 are defective (but now I think they are not), as I feel that its not precise separation has a negative effect also in simple stereo music. I'm not searching for a new earbud with gaming or binaural audio purpose, but I appreciate your advice
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hey, if you have a more objective test for the Pt15's I'd be happy to try. I tried with that binaural test , compared it to some other buds, didn't notice any glaring deficiencies.


----------



## Saoshyant

Hmm, Peter Gabriel - New Blood sounds near perfect on DK-Song via Supermini. Sadly it's putting me to sleep.


----------



## herzhz

vapman said:


> is that copper litz? i love to use those rhodium connectors too
> 
> i would like to hear those. i have heard no bud with better bass & eq-ability than my qian-mod :basshead:



For basshead this buds might be quite nice for you.
Almost right, indeed it's a litz, to be precise hybrid silver copper occ litz, you could see a beautiful hybrid lines there. 




townyj said:


> Dietris?



White Dietris Lv1. Have your own Dietris arrived Joel?


----------



## purplesun

prospektfi said:


> I want to clarify that I use earbuds for something like 95% music, 4% movies and 1% other, and I'm not a gamer. I've pointed out all that just to understand if my PT15 are defective (but now I think they are not), as I feel that its not precise separation has a negative effect also in simple stereo music. I'm not searching for a new earbud with gaming or binaural audio purpose, but I appreciate your advice
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think PT15 doesn't work well in this test because engine noises are mostly lower frequency sounds. And that's PT15's Achilles heel. With reduced bass dynamic range in PT15; the engine sound levels will not have a big difference when the vehicle is near as compared to when it's far away.


----------



## DBaldock9

akashs04 said:


> Thanks. Do they deliver faster than AliExpress? AliExpress takes around 40 days to deliver the earbud. I mean you order and forget it and they will arrive some day.


 

 I placed an order with Penon Audio on 05-DEC-16, selected the DHL shipping option, and 5 days later, my earphones were delivered to my Dad's house in Mississippi.  That's faster than the US Post Office delivers regular mail between Houston, TX, and my Dad's house...


----------



## ProspektFi

purplesun said:


> I think PT15 doesn't work well in this test because engine noises are mostly lower frequency sounds. And that's PT15's Achilles heel. With reduced bass dynamic range in PT15; the engine sound levels will not have a big difference when the vehicle is near as compared to when it's far away.


 
  
 I've already used EQ to avoid what you said and to make the comparison fairer, but I confirm my thoughts.
  
  
 P.S. PT15 responds really well to bass EQ


----------



## Ira Delphic

purplesun said:


> prospektfi said:
> 
> 
> > I want to clarify that I use earbuds for something like 95% music, 4% movies and 1% other, and I'm not a gamer. I've pointed out all that just to understand if my PT15 are defective (but now I think they are not), as I feel that its not precise separation has a negative effect also in simple stereo music. I'm not searching for a new earbud with gaming or binaural audio purpose, but I appreciate your advice
> ...


 
  
 That would make sense. I don't understand how an earbud can have bad separation. There's nothing too complicated in a single DD earbud. Is it believed that sound bleeds between channels?
  
 There was a question on PT15 fit recently - the PT15's falling out when walking outside. I used the large eartips that came with my TY HP650 (bonus from Penon) and they work reasonably well with the PT15. They do block the speaker grill slightly on the outer diameter.  The good news is they stay on my ears. I could go on a trampoline and I doubt they'd fall out. I chose the large ones - not sure how comfortable they will be for long periods. After an hour or so - not so good. The rubber on the earbud has constant pressure. I'll try the smaller ones next. I didn't try the hooks with the Monk ex-pack. Those may work too.


----------



## ProspektFi

tinkertailor said:


> Hey, if you have a more objective test for the Pt15's I'd be happy to try. I tried with that binaural test , compared it to some other buds, didn't notice any glaring deficiencies.


 
  
 Mmmh, there's also this video where I think **** lose compared to my other 'buds. I hear the difference especially with the song at 1:41:


----------



## Ira Delphic

Some info on binaural recording. It never took off commercially. I've always considered it to be a gimmick. But I suppose it can be good for testing purposes. 
  
 http://blog.hookeaudio.com/hooke-blog1/2015/10/20/the-artists-that-created-with-binaural-audio
  
 I'll continue to use the tests that listed in my signature. Here it is if you read the forum using a smart phone:
  
http://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/
http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

It takes soo long to get phones with Aliexpress (2 months) that I wish I used Penon Audio, does anyone else feel the same?
  
Delivery lead-time: *North America: 7-14 days


----------



## Ira Delphic

laughmoredaily said:


> It takes soo long to get phones with Aliexpress (2 months) that I wish I used Penon Audio, does anyone else feel the same?
> 
> Delivery lead-time: *North America: 7-14 days


 
  
 I live in the US - North East.  Ali orders take 3 weeks or so. I have no problem waiting. Penon and VE Clan (Monk) approximately 10 days, total time. The only time that I had problems with Ali was when the seller claimed they shipped but merely created the shipping info and sat on it for weeks before actually dispatching it.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

ira delphic said:


> I live in the US - North East.  Ali orders take 3 weeks or so. I have no problem waiting. Penon and VE Clan (Monk) approximately 10 days, total time. The only time that I had problems with Ali was when the seller claimed they shipped but merely created the shipping info and sat on it for weeks before actually dispatching it.


 
 I've been waiting 4 weeks in Canada and no sign of any package including VE Clan, but I also used "Aliexpress Standard Shipping" It sounds like you used a higher grade shipping? 
  
 Should I ask sellers if they shipped the item? Why are they lying and sitting on the packages?! That makes me never want to deal with them again.


----------



## B9Scrambler

laughmoredaily said:


> I've been waiting 4 weeks in Canada and no sign of any package including VE Clan, but I also used "Aliexpress Standard Shipping" It sounds like you used a higher grade shipping?
> 
> Should I ask sellers if they shipped the item? Why are they lying and sitting on the packages?! That makes me never want to deal with them again.


 
  
 If it makes you feel any better I'm still waiting on a couple 11:11 purchases. Us Canucks get the shaft when it comes to quick shipping, especially when using the free shipping options.


----------



## tinkertailor

prospektfi said:


> Mmmh, there's also this video where I think **** lose compared to my other 'buds. I hear the difference especially with the song at 1:41:




 Heard nothing exceptionally different with mine when compared to three other buds. Just a slightly colder sound with less low end seems to effect the perception of the room of ambience slightly. But any difference is _very_ subtle when compared my other buds. (fareal 32 ohm, k's 64, modded bass-centric buds). Gave it a shot anyways.


----------



## tinkertailor

b9scrambler said:


> If it makes you feel any better I'm still waiting on a couple 11:11 purchases. Us Canucks get the shaft when it comes to quick shipping, especially when using the free shipping options.


 
 ive ordered from aliexpress a few times to Canada. usually 4-6 weeks and closer to 4.  im very surprised your 11:11 stuff hasn't come in since i ordered stuff in early january that recently came in.


----------



## DBaldock9

saoshyant said:


> @alizeofeniquito @DBaldock9 I went ahead and ordered the MEMT X3 & 2 Mantis earbuds, so will see how they sound when they show up.


 

 I went ahead and ordered the Mantis C7, since I'm curious about that 14.2mm driver, and it's currently discounted 40%, to $12.99.


----------



## Ira Delphic

laughmoredaily said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > I live in the US - North East.  Ali orders take 3 weeks or so. I have no problem waiting. Penon and VE Clan (Monk) approximately 10 days, total time. The only time that I had problems with Ali was when the seller claimed they shipped but merely created the shipping info and sat on it for weeks before actually dispatching it.
> ...


 
  
 Just the default shipping. Some if not all e-packet. I ordered from NiceHCK, the seller we can not name and others.  I ordered twice from VE Clan. And Penon is really fast! 
 My 11.11 orders arrived in 2016 so no complaints.


----------



## AkashS04

dbaldock9 said:


> I placed an order with Penon Audio on 05-DEC-16, selected the DHL shipping option, and 5 days later, my earphones were delivered to my Dad's house in Mississippi.  That's faster than the US Post Office delivers regular mail between Houston, TX, and my Dad's house...


 
 Do they charge a lot for faster delivery?


----------



## AkashS04

Did anyone posted detailed review of TY Hi-Z 32S (Red Cable one)? If so then can anyone point out to the URL for the same?


----------



## DBaldock9

akashs04 said:


> Do they charge a lot for faster delivery?


 

 PM sent.


----------



## To.M

akashs04 said:


> Did anyone posted detailed review of TY Hi-Z 32S (Red Cable one)? If so then can anyone point out to the URL for the same?




Bloodypenguin did a great job here: 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/831374/introduction-to-ty-hi-z-earbud-family-mega-review/0_30


----------



## AkashS04

to.m said:


> Bloodypenguin did a great job here:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/831374/introduction-to-ty-hi-z-earbud-family-mega-review/0_30


 
 Thanks. Looks good.


----------



## AkashS04

Does *TY Hi-Z HP-32s **has Tangle free cable or similar to Monk+? *


----------



## rkw

If shipping was fast, we'd lose members from drug overdose.


----------



## vapman

If akash just bought any of the buds he was interested in, he would be on his 4th or 5th round of buying from aliexpress now. It is too bad instead of just getting the ones he wants he asks about the same ones each tine and complains of long delivery waits. He could have had dozens of buds and sold the ones he didn't like by now. Well i hope one day he actually does buy some new earbuds. Poor guy could have been listening to the buds he has been wanting for months now.


----------



## flamesofarctica

akashs04 said:


> Does *TY Hi-Z HP-32s* *has Tangle free cable or similar to Monk+? *




Haven't noticed Monk+ being all that tangly moreso than any other...Anyway for a cheap bassy earbud, RY4S or Qian39, both easily found on Ali. The TY HP32S I really couldn't bring myself to recommend, it's too harsh sounding to my ears and more like a punishment...But that's with the music I like, and how it sounds to me.. you'll only know for yourself when you try them if they're what you're looking for. For the level of bass you're looking for, maybe earbuds just won't cut it for you?


----------



## Pulpfiction

Pay twice the bottom budget price for a HE150 from Penon if you want good bass. Monk+ has none in comparison, even old Monk has way weaker bass response (both in extension and in control). Qian39 souds pleasant and has a warm sound, sufficient bass but slow and bloated in comparison - I have two pairs of Qian39, old Monk & Ty HP32 v1 (and a Monk+ : I really prefer old Monk.. )


----------



## Townyj

herzhz said:


> For basshead this buds might be quite nice for you.
> Almost right, indeed it's a litz, to be precise hybrid silver copper occ litz, you could see a beautiful hybrid lines there.
> White Dietris Lv1. Have your own Dietris arrived Joel?


 
  
 Thats the Lvl.1 oh god they look awesome! Not just yet, will be another week or so i think. Had them shipped via Registered Post instead of EMS from Adhi.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I really like https://www.fasttech.com/. My Philips SHE3800 arrived in Canada in 30 days! Awesome. Anyone buy any other headphones from here before?


----------



## Majin

Yes they shipped me a DOA SHE3800 and they gave me a refund


----------



## knudsen

flamesofarctica said:


> Haven't noticed Monk+ being all that tangly moreso than any other...Anyway for a cheap bassy earbud, RY4S or Qian39, both easily found on Ali. The TY HP32S I really couldn't bring myself to recommend, it's too harsh sounding to my ears and more like a punishment...But that's with the music I like, and how it sounds to me.. you'll only know for yourself when you try them if they're what you're looking for. For the level of bass you're looking for, maybe earbuds just won't cut it for you?


 
 Agree about HP32s, pure punishment... seems to me there is something in the mids that is elevated. But others seem to like it, maybe mine needs more burn-in


----------



## luedriver

knudsen said:


> Agree about HP32s, pure punishment... seems to me there is something in the mids that is elevated. But others seem to like it, maybe mine needs more burn-in


 
 they are elevated from 1Khz to 4Khz, at least that's how it seems when measuring them on my phone, 
  
 they measure more v -shaped than my hp32 v1, with a "valley" between 125hz and 1.5khz 
  
 ...
  
 I tried to measure them again from my new smsl m3 and found the sound sig has changed slightly the mids seem to be less pronounced but the valley remains the same, 
  
 I had burned them in for 4 days but it seems they are still burning in (changing with use)


----------



## noxa

My Campfred arrived this morning, just giving them a quick listen now.


----------



## golov17

PS500 Classic very nice


----------



## Majin

Did anybody try the RY04? I'm really interested in the mic and controls.


----------



## golov17

majin said:


> Did anybody try the RY04? I'm really interested in the mic and controls.


RY04s better


----------



## Fabi

This is an interesting reading to help us describing sound. 
http://www.head-fi.org/a/describing-sound-a-glossary
Written by the 5 Justice League super heroes.


----------



## chinmie

just got the mrice e100 and toneking tp16. the e100 sounded good in "normal earbud wearing" position, but it sounded great wearing it facing forward. it really sounded like wearing full sized headphones. i like the tone and soundstage, but, wearing it like that is rather finicky.. any ideas how to keep it from falling out?i already tried using it iem style (over ear) with silicon ear guides, but it still is not ideal... 

the tp16 on the other hand sounded nice and clear, but using it for a while kinda fatiguing. i am using it without foam, because with foam it is too boomy for me


----------



## Majin

golov17 said:


> RY04s better


 
  
 I purely want it for the mic controls


----------



## B9Scrambler

Been spending a fair bit of time with the VSD3P and while I really enjoy their sound, the plastic used for the housings is both uncomfortably sharp and feels so damn cheap. So cheap in fact that if used without foams the bass suffers from some hollow resonance artifacts that really hurts the sound. Toss the foams back on and the solid thump they are capable of returns. Nice sounding earbud hindered by crappy materials and poor ergonomics/design (sharp housing). You can do better VSonic...
  

  
 Could probably cut my thumb with that edge if I pressed hard enough.


----------



## notamethlab

golov17 said:


> RY04s better




Totally agree, RY04 has no bass at all while the RY4S has a good punch. With that being said though I prefer the Qian 39, e808+ and she3800 over the RY4S.


----------



## golov17

majin said:


> I purely want it for the mic controls


 2017 New Seahf 32S In Ear Earphone 32ohms Earbud Flat Head Plug Earplugs DIY HIFI Bass Headset Kill Monk Earbud
 http://s.aliexpress.com/NfQRzyQ7


----------



## knudsen

For those that can't get enough of earbuds - more discussions:
  
 https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.audiofight.ru%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D4%26t%3D2336&sandbox=1
  
 https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=da&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fplayer.ru%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D142371%26page%3D515&sandbox=1
  
 https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=da&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tellementnomade.org%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D56%26t%3D7027%26start%3D1680&sandbox=1
  
 Google apparently translates a headphone brand into "strange and pretty meaningless" from russian. It's written everywhere. Or maybe I misunderstand. Qian25 seems to end up as Tsyani25 (?)
  
 Also one can start all over again after finishing this round and ending up here. What more can one ask for


----------



## golov17

This jargon, russians fond of assigning monikers, lol


----------



## flamesofarctica

golov17 said:


> 2017 New Seahf 32S In Ear Earphone 32ohms Earbud Flat Head Plug Earplugs DIY HIFI Bass Headset Kill Monk Earbud
> http://s.aliexpress.com/NfQRzyQ7




Wow, the third 'Kill Monk' earbud I've seen. Have any of them succeeded though?

Still waiting for my Yinman 64. I'm not convinced the K's 64 beats the Monk+, it's not bad though. And now this one.


----------



## knudsen

golov17 said:


> This jargon, russians fond of assigning monikers, lol


 





 
 Google should throw some AI into their translations, there is definetly room for improvement


----------



## rkw

flamesofarctica said:


> Wow, the third 'Kill Monk' earbud I've seen.


 
  
 Only the third? Obviously you're not spending enough time on AliExpress.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I see that label all over AliExpress, even for $150 earbuds!


----------



## mochill

Got my puresounds ps600 balanced finally


----------



## golov17

mochill said:


> Got my puresounds ps600 balanced finally


 congrats ✈✈✈


----------



## vapman

mochill said:


> Got my puresounds ps600 balanced finally


 
 why ?


----------



## mochill

vapman said:


> mochill said:
> 
> 
> > Got my puresounds ps600 balanced finally
> ...


Took forever


----------



## mochill

golov17 said:


> mochill said:
> 
> 
> > Got my puresounds ps600 balanced finally
> ...


your welcome bro


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

mochill said:


> Took forever


 
  
 Impression?


----------



## Saoshyant

I keep telling myself I have enough earbuds, but now I have a Zen 2, Edimun V3 & MM Tomahawk on the way, just bought maybe half a dozen budget earbuds as well, and I'm going to probably pick up another 2 quite soon.  Man this hobby has it's teeth in me.
  
 Also my 1more earbud has arrived here in KC, which I keep forgetting about as I bought it 3 months ago, so hopefully will have that to listen to soon as well.


----------



## Frederick Wang

Is there someone owns both Yinman's 150ohm and 500ohm earbuds? I wonder how much of an upgrade 500ohm would provide, or rather, how much different are they? Thanks!


----------



## vapman

My PureSounds 600 review is done.    
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/puresounds-ps100-600/reviews/17995


----------



## mochill

Puresounds ps600 balanced has amazing black space with excellent imaging and deep control bass and lots of textures and zero grain in any frequency spectrum. Just an amazing product straight from the box.


----------



## vapman

mochill said:


> Puresounds ps600 balanced has amazing black space with excellent imaging and deep control bass and lots of textures and zero grain in any frequency spectrum. Just an amazing product straight from the box.




Basically my thought. Should have mentioned the very black background in my review. They really do sound very good out of the box.


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, just ordered a pair from Indonesia, and apparently I'm the first overseas order. He'll send me pics once the pair is made.


----------



## Fabi

saoshyant said:


> Well, just ordered a pair from Indonesia, and apparently I'm the first overseas order. He'll send me pics once the pair is made.


 
 What earbuds?


----------



## Saoshyant

fabi said:


> What earbuds?




Are you in Earbuds Anonymous?


----------



## Fabi

Yes indeed


----------



## Saoshyant

From the Housing Porn post


----------



## Fabi

Ahh okay, good.





 For those who don't know about this, it may be confusing


----------



## Saoshyant

I look forward to seeing how they sound


----------



## Fabi

Btw I placed an order on the new Crow Audio earbuds, the Raven


----------



## Saoshyant

How much did it cost?


----------



## Fabi

Total price, ems shipping included, $90 for standard version, you can upgrade the plug then the price increases a bit.
 Kind of blind buy but I've chatted a lot with the maker. A good mate!


----------



## Saoshyant

Never got a chance to chat with him, my Crow was offered to me through a head-fier that knows him.


----------



## Fabi

Yes I know that. I read your review many times


----------



## Saoshyant

I really should attempt a second review


----------



## vapman

Saoshyant im not on fb. What the heck did you buy?


----------



## tinkertailor

Did anybody try the Qian69 yet?


----------



## vapman

tinkertailor said:


> Did anybody try the Qian69 yet?




One time i found a seller on taobao who had it for about 40 dollars. Couldnt find it. Only 60+. If someone finds the cheap 69 again i would try it


----------



## boblauer

vapman said:


> Saoshyant im not on fb. What the heck did you buy?




There's a builder I, the FB Earbud Anon who's offering some really interesting shells, sort of a street art like affect. Will be nice to see some other pics


----------



## boblauer

fabi said:


> Btw I placed an order on the new Crow Audio earbuds, the Raven
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## vapman

boblauer said:


> There's a builder I, the FB Earbud Anon who's offering some really interesting shells, sort of a street art like affect. Will be nice to see some other pics


 
 Could anyone share for those of us without fb?
 I just tried joining the group and saw the post but by the time i tried to commend FB locked down my acct and demanded I send a govt ID. So much for that LOL


----------



## Fabi

vapman said:


> Could anyone share for those of us without fb?
> I just tried joining the group and saw the post but by the time i tried to commend FB locked down my acct and demanded I send a govt ID. So much for that LOL


LOL what do you need to know bro ? Did you succeed to watch the pictures ?


----------



## notamethlab

Quote: 





vapman said:


> Could anyone share for those of us without fb?
> I just tried joining the group and saw the post but by the time i tried to commend FB locked down my acct and demanded I send a govt ID. So much for that LOL


----------



## vapman

fabi said:


> LOL what do you need to know bro ? Did you succeed to watch the pictures ?


 
 I didnt find out if they were just painted shells or whole buds before FB kicked me off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I tried signing up a 2nd time and they blocked me again. i tried!


----------



## Fabi

Your wish is fulfilled above for the pictures. 
I think FB don't like you


----------



## vapman

fabi said:


> Your wish is fulfilled above for the pictures.
> I think FB don't like you


 
 Yeah they really don't. Even when I am keeping to myself and not doing anything but uploading photos of custom earbud creations. Oh well, I don't like FB and they don't like me.


----------



## boblauer

I think they are the whole bud and notamethlab beat me to the pics


----------



## Fabi

vapman said:


> Yeah they really don't. Even when I am keeping to myself and not doing anything but uploading photos of custom earbud creations. Oh well, I don't like FB and they don't like me.


Don't worry bro, we like you at least, we didn't really have the choice actually..  
You can ask us for more FB info on earbuds if you like. Lol


----------



## notamethlab

boblauer said:


> I think they are the whole bud and notamethlab beat me to the pics



Custom painted according to the guy on Facebook. 

His Instagram is uairekko he has more pictures there.


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman Fairly sure custom painted & uses a 14.8mm driver.


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> @vapman Fairly sure custom painted & uses a 14.8mm driver.


 
 Well with the yuin shells not much else is gonna fit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I will be curious to know what driver is used. I have a few yuin shell mods done. One is worthy of being sold I think, but the drivers aren't cheap at all. It'd be more than a Cygnus but less than a Stardust...


----------



## Saoshyant

Zen 2, Edimun V3 Rhodium, MM Tomahawk & 1More 320 is waiting at home now. Any suggestions on which to try first?


----------



## 1TrickPony

saoshyant said:


> Zen 2, Edimun V3 Rhodium, MM Tomahawk & 1More 320 is waiting at home now. Any suggestions on which to try first?




so curious on your take as to how they compare!


----------



## edsel400

Hi, I’ve been lurking around this forum for a long time, and Im one of those who ditched IEM for Earbuds. 

Currently, I owned few starter earbuds like: VE Monk+, MDR-E808+, Quian39, Tomahawk, PT15 and my favorite so far: TP16.

Recently, got my Xduoo X3 and Fiio A3 amp and would like to try out high impedance earbuds. Im hoping to get better clarity, details and soundtstage. Neutral sound signature, probably a bit warm but not as warm as Monk+. And most of all, below 100$

Im eyeing for Yinman 500, anybody can share the sound sig and does it sit well in the ears. Looks like similar shape as the Tomahawk/Ting which I hate the fitting, do they fit the same?

Thanks and more power thanks this community


----------



## herzhz

Today i got an inspiration from Mr. Golov
 a shanling dap, a pig-tailed mini to mini, and of course a pair of nice earbuds.

 Happy Friday 

 #DietrisLv1BLK
 ~being normal is boring~


----------



## golov17

edsel400 said:


> Hi, I’ve been lurking around this forum for a long time, and Im one of those who ditched IEM for Earbuds.
> 
> Currently, I owned few starter earbuds like: VE Monk+, MDR-E808+, Quian39, Tomahawk, PT15 and my favorite so far: TP16.
> 
> ...


try PureSounds PS500 classic


----------



## golov17

herzhz said:


> Today i got an inspiration from Mr. Golov
> 
> a shanling dap, a pig-tailed mini to mini, and of course a pair of nice earbuds.
> 
> ...


looks cool


----------



## edsel400

golov17 said:


> try PureSounds PS500 classic



@golov17 thanks! I know you have the yinman 500, how does it fit, is it similar to tomahawk or ting fitting? How's the details and clarity? Thanks


----------



## edsel400

I must say that I like how Yinman wooden casing looks  And its below 100$ too. I just want to ensure that it doesnt fit like Tomahawk and the overall sound sig is nuetral without any high peeks or piercing tremble. Thanks!


----------



## golov17

Now I'm at work, I should compare when I'm home


----------



## vapman

edsel400 said:


> Hi, I’ve been lurking around this forum for a long time, and Im one of those who ditched IEM for Earbuds.
> 
> Currently, I owned few starter earbuds like: VE Monk+, MDR-E808+, Quian39, Tomahawk, PT15 and my favorite so far: TP16.
> 
> ...


 
 Would also rec VE Asura 2.0!


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Would also rec VE Asura 2.0!


sure


----------



## edsel400

Hi vapman, thanks for the recommendation 
Can I check how does your Yinman 150 fits? 
Cheers


----------



## vapman

edsel400 said:


> Hi vapman, thanks for the recommendation
> Can I check how does your Yinman 150 fits?
> Cheers


 
 I should mention the asura will be a "slower" and smoother sound than puresounds.
 the yinman 150 is one of the best fitting buds. so comfy


----------



## golov17

edsel400 said:


> Hi vapman, thanks for the recommendation
> Can I check how does your Yinman 150 fits?
> Cheers


 btw, choose dark cable, it is softer than silver, for comfort


----------



## edsel400

@goliv17 and vapman
Thanks for your advise, appreciate it.
I assume the casing for 150 and 500 are the same, hopefully so that should settle the fitting part. Ill get the dark cable too.

If there's any other negative feedback for Yinman 500, please post here before I pull the trigger in a week time 

Cheers


----------



## Saoshyant

Well decided to try the 1More earbud first as I've been waiting for it for 3 months.  Vocals are forward enough that they stay ahead of the bass and actually has a really pleasing sound to my ears.  I think my earbuds will go from least to most expensive so I don't ruin my listening.
  
 Decided to take a quick listen to the MM Tomahawk next, which is alright, having a little more neutral feel to it than the EO320, and more detail, and one obstentatious gem which made me laugh as I did not expect it.
  
 But onto the next one.  @vapman If the Edimun V3 Rhodium is a baby Zen 1...  I think I might have to hunt one down.  It plays my favorite Portishead song marvelously and feels especially well  suited for Radiohead.  Time to listen to Nobuo Uematsu and see how Distant Worlds sounds.


----------



## Fabi

Has anyone ever tried these?
 http://www.littlesound.net/products/basic-eb12


----------



## 1TrickPony

saoshyant said:


> Well decided to try the 1More earbud first as I've been waiting for it for 3 months.  Vocals are forward enough that they stay ahead of the bass and actually has a really pleasing sound to my ears.  I think my earbuds will go from least to most expensive so I don't ruin my listening.
> 
> Decided to take a quick listen to the MM Tomahawk next, which is alright, having a little more neutral feel to it than the EO320, and more detail, and one obstentatious gem which made me laugh as I did not expect it.
> 
> ...




wow. not only your details are helpful....just happens that we've been listening to same artists lol


----------



## Saoshyant

1trickpony said:


> wow. not only your details are helpful....just happens that we've been listening to same artists lol


 
 Here's a post I put on facebook about the recent purchase:
  
Well, I ended up buying for $150 on used forums the Zen 2, Edimun V3 Rhodium, MusicMaker Tomahawk, and a backup Auglamour RX-1.

I know the Zen 2 is pushing the upper volume limit of my Opus #1, but I believe it's still more than adequately amped. Technically it's remarkably proficient, bringing a compromise of the clinical accuracy of the Rose Mojito and vocal quality of the Rose Masya (yep I'm a Rose fanboy.) It's even has decent enough bass for Trip Hop like Portishead, I will mention this band a lot through my life as I have severe love/lust/longing for their music.

Then there's the but, which is the Edimun V3 Rhodium. It has some incredibly amazing bass, vocals that are more than capable of keeping ahead, yet also does well with orchestrated/choral music like Nobuo Uematsu's Distant Worlds. I guess the closest analogy I can make is the Zen 2 aims for the analytical listener where the Edimun feels geared towards the listening seeking a euphoric experience. I've been told the Edimun is a baby Zen 1, which makes me quite sad I never got the chance to try that one out.

All in all, it's a huge testament to this new renaissance of earbuds, the capabilities of crafters like VE, and the craftsmanship of Bengkel Macro and the like who can turn something like the Edifier into something magnificent. I really look forward to seeing what is to come.


----------



## Danneq

I think I'm the one to blame for the "Edimun V3 rhodium is a baby Zen 1" analogy.

 I had both of them at the same time and noticed right away when I got the V3 rohidum that they reminded me of the Zen 1. The overall sound signature was quite close, even if Zen 1 was a step up in every aspect. 

 Later the V3 rhodium became a part of the stuff that I traded away for a pair of Aiwa V99. A while ago I traded the Zen 1 back to the original owner (and got my old Zen 2 back). I now have a second hand pair of Edimun V3 with gold plug and from what I remember of V3 rhodium, the gold plug version seems to be a bit more subdued/controlled.

 They are all very nice but lately Diomnes Lv2 and the Cypherus earbuds are taking up all my earbud time...


----------



## Saoshyant

@Danneq That reminds me, I just bought a used pair of Campfred off the sale forums!


----------



## rkw

saoshyant said:


> I think my earbuds will go from least to most expensive so I don't ruin my listening.


 
 You should be doing random, double blind. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 But seriously, a presumption that more expensive will be better can color your perception. Try something to mix it up, like alphabetical order, length of cord, etc.


----------



## Saoshyant

rkw Typically Zen 2 is exceptionally highly regarded, and Edimun V3 is very well respected. Some people really love the MM Tomahawk, and there's been some good feedback on EO320. So while more expensive may not mean better, for these 4 it's most likely objectively the case with exceptions for tastes.


----------



## Ira Delphic

rkw said:


> saoshyant said:
> 
> 
> > I think my earbuds will go from least to most expensive so I don't ruin my listening.
> ...


 
  
 K's 64 silver cord gets tested first based on that criteria!


----------



## ATi7500

notamethlab said:


> Totally agree, RY04 has no bass at all while the RY4S has a good punch. With that being said though I prefer the Qian 39, e808+ and she3800 over the RY4S.


 
 RY4S seems a clone of Qian25, at least in appearance.

 I like my Qian25 very much, RY04 and RY4S are about to arrive in a few weeks (hopefully), curious to hear how they compare.


----------



## the diode

Finally got the chance to order Zen2.0 black. Now to wait, the excitement is crazy!!!


----------



## Ira Delphic

ati7500 said:


> notamethlab said:
> 
> 
> > Totally agree, RY04 has no bass at all while the RY4S has a good punch. With that being said though I prefer the Qian 39, e808+ and she3800 over the RY4S.
> ...


 
  
 Likely from the same factory. Also, from what I've read there are only a limited number of drivers for low cost earbuds (and IEM's). The difference is in shells used, cable, plug and most important, tuning.


----------



## mochill

the diode said:


> Finally got the chance to order Zen2.0 black. Now to wait, the excitement is crazy!!!


Congrats, you'll be blown away


----------



## Willber

ati7500 said:


> RY4S seems a clone of Qian25, at least in appearance.


 
  
 That's the MX500 shell - there are many, _many _out there!


----------



## vapman

If stuff like the Diomnes is Monk based and stuff like the Edimun and Demun are H180 based, how are more people outside of Indonesia not taking advantage of this? There's the guy painting Yuin shells but we don't know yet if his buds offer anything new in terms of sound quality.
  
 I guess I could be the only guy who knows how to + didn't stop at enough sets for themselves out here in the western world? Lol


----------



## Fabi

vapman said:


> I guess I could be the only guy who knows how to + didn't stop at enough sets for themselves out here in the western world? Lol


 
  
 Wow bro, I just saw that you are getting serious now with your DIY earbuds 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I may shoot you a PM later.


----------



## vapman

Looking forward to it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  
 BTW I have to share how impressive the Asura 2 time and time again is because I feel it is so overlooked. The Asura 2 is one of the few buds I have that I can run at turbo mode on the Black edition iDSD Micro - that means feeding them well over 1W - with the same basshead EQ i use on my SZ2000. Sounds amazing and like the drivers are so alive. The Asura is 150 ohms so it is not exactly low impedance, but is really no harder to drive than monk+. Maybe this ability is not so important to non EQ'ers, but the sound is so beautifully alive and clear.


----------



## Joy Boy

saoshyant said:


> From the Housing Porn post







fabi said:


> Btw I placed an order on the new Crow Audio earbuds, the Raven



It's amazed me how you guys got your hand in new stuff in indonesia faster than me, an indonesian. 
I'm really interresting on yuin street art-like earbud, but i still wait for a review or impression first. It looks like the builder isnt too active in local audio forum,so i cant get any info about the sound sign yet




saoshyant said:


> Here's a post I put on facebook about the recent purchase:
> 
> Well, I ended up buying for $150 on used forums the Zen 2, Edimun V3 Rhodium, MusicMaker Tomahawk, and a backup Auglamour RX-1.
> 
> ...



It's funny that i already have a chat with you on your post in FB yet still i didnt know it's the Saoshyant from head fi.
I love reading your first impression of new product. And i still recommend you to try diomnes and ve zen v1 if you have a chance


----------



## Saoshyant

joy boy said:


> It's amazed me how you guys got your hand in new stuff in indonesia faster than me, an indonesian.
> I'm really interresting on yuin street art-like earbud, but i still wait for a review or impression first. It looks like the builder isnt too active in local audio forum,so i cant get any info about the sound sign yet
> It's funny that i already have a chat with you on your post in FB yet still i didnt know it's the Saoshyant from head fi.
> I love reading your first impression of new product. And i still recommend you to try diomnes and ve zen v1 if you have a chance




It was a bit of a learning experience for us both as I wasn't sure how to pay nor were they. We ended up going with Western Union which by paypal standards has a steep fee. Really, I just thought the art of the shells looked wonderful and figured I should take a chance on something new.


----------



## Joy Boy

saoshyant said:


> It was a bit of a learning experience for us both as I wasn't sure how to pay nor were they. We ended up going with Western Union which by paypal standards has a steep fee. Really, I just thought the art of the shells looked wonderful and figured I should take a chance on something new.



I'm looking forward for your impression then. I wish it will arrive soon. I'm amazed and confused at the same time of how fast the progress of DIY industry. 
It's good that we have so many option. But the bad side is we cant or hardly get any info about the new product. 
I'm a kind of guy that afraid to buy something blindly


----------



## Saoshyant

joy boy said:


> I'm looking forward for your impression then. I wish it will arrive soon. I'm amazed and confused at the same time of how fast the progress of DIY industry.
> It's good that we have so many option. But the bad side is we cant or hardly get any info about the new product.
> I'm a kind of guy that afraid to buy something blindly




I figure everyone else tries stuff blindly, so I should every now and again. Can't always leave it to Danneq golov17 vapman


----------



## vapman

Other people have to have the pleasure of discovering buds too


----------



## DBaldock9

vapman said:


> Looking forward to it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The VE Asura 2.0 (2.5TRRS) & VE Monk Plus (2.5TRRS) that I ordered on 24-JAN, came in the mail today.  Venture Electronics included the EX Pack, and a standard set of Monk Plus in the package, as a gift.
  
 Checking them with the test tones on [www.audiocheck.net], playing through my PC & iFi Micro iDSD, the low Bass is impressive for an earbud, responding down to 20-Hz. So far, I've listened to a couple of different High Resolution (24-Bit, 96-KHz & 176.4-KHz) albums, playing on three different systems (PC & iFi Micro iDSD, Onkyo DP-X1 (balanced output), and Shanling M1), and along with the extended Bass response, the Midrange is smooth & balanced; and the Treble is clear & detailed.  I'm impressed that the M1 does so well driving the 150Ω Asura, and sounding good doing it.
  
 Take Care,
 David Baldock


----------



## Nec3

Hi everyone,

 I currently play white noise or asmr to fall asleep (I can fall asleep in 5 minutes with noise/asmr, 1 hour without it). I'm looking for a fast solution I can buy from amazon/newegg so the VE monks are out of my reach and the right channel of my current VE Monk is dead.

 Is there anyone that could recommend a durable earbud under 50usd (including tax)?
 Durability is the highest priority over everything else. The next would be a natural midrange with no sibilance.

 Forgot to mention, I'm a side sleeper and the earbuds probably get a good amount of abuse when I'm asleep. Including pulling the wire from my ears, earbuds being slept on, cable jack being pulled... etc. I have a cheap DAP I picked up from the dollar store so I don't really care if the usb DAP breaks


----------



## vapman

nec3 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I currently play white noise or asmr to fall asleep (I can fall asleep in 5 minutes with noise/asmr, 1 hour without it). I'm looking for a fast solution I can buy from amazon/newegg so the VE monks are out of my reach and the right channel of my current VE Monk is dead.
> 
> ...


 
 Qian39 is very shallow, comfortable, and has a good quality internal cable restraint for when you are sleeping and roll over on your buds. $6
  
 edit: hmm, something readily available domestically.... i would think auglamour rx1?
  
 I also recommend the H180 posted below: vvvvvvvv


----------



## purplesun

nec3 said:


> I'm looking for a fast solution I can buy from amazon/newegg
> durable earbud under 50usd (including tax)?
> The next would be a natural midrange with no sibilance.


 
  
 https://www.amazon.com/Edifier-H180-Stereo-Earbuds-Headphone/dp/B016AY6CB0/ref=sr_1_17?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1486795465&sr=1-17&keywords=earbuds


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Did anyone get the wrong earbuds mailed to them before?
  
 A seller sent me the K's earphone 64ohm by mistake. I canceled my order moments right after I made it. I should check my credit card.
  
 What worries me most though, is I made an order with the same seller weeks before, and that one hasn't arrived, but this has?
  
 PS: Is it normal for whoever made K's earbuds to not put any information with the headphone to let me know who they are? Maybe they are counterfeit's?
  
 PPS: I think I may know what happened. It looks like AK Audio is either the banned seller or is friends with the banned seller because they had their 'W' brand name on the ear bud box.
  
 PPPS: Either way, AK Audio ships to Canada damn quick! (If it's from them.) Wow. I am waiting for orders I made weeks before this one still.


----------



## vapman

laughmoredaily said:


> Did anyone get the wrong earbuds mailed to them before?
> 
> A seller sent me the K's earphone 64ohm by mistake. I canceled my order moments right after I made it. I should check my credit card.
> 
> What worries me most though, is I made an order with the same seller weeks before, and that one hasn't arrived, but this has?


 
 I bought two qian39 from hck and they send me some 25's. i sent them a pic and they sent me two 39s for free. all in all i got 4 earbuds for the price of 2.
  
 No comment on your k's question


----------



## silverfishla

I would just like to say that Penon Audio is great. A while back they upgraded my Rose Masya order from the regular ones to the carbon fiber ones for free because they were out of stock of the regular ones. That's like a $50 discount.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

vapman said:


> I bought two qian39 from hck and they send me some 25's. i sent them a pic and they sent me two 39s for free. all in all i got 4 earbuds for the price of 2.


 
 Thanks, I'll keep the packaging material in case I need to do that. Even though I'm not sure who these are from. These companies don't like to label who they are, weird. I guess they don't care if their products get lost in the mail.


----------



## flamesofarctica

laughmoredaily said:


> Thanks, I'll keep the packaging material in case I need to do that. Even though I'm not sure who these are from. These companies don't like to label who they are, weird. I guess they don't care if their products get lost in the mail.




Sometimes you can find a reference number on the address label that matches to your order number, to help work out which one it is, but not always.


----------



## vapman

laughmoredaily said:


> Thanks, I'll keep the packaging material in case I need to do that. Even though I'm not sure who these are from. These companies don't like to label who they are, weird. I guess they don't care if their products get lost in the mail.


 
 I actually did not need the packaging material.
 I just had to send pics of the qian25 to prove they were the ones sent.
  
 Even though the tins were stickered with 25, the tins of all Qian are the same so a mixup is understandable. Anyway, Qian25 and 39 use totally different shells, so it is very easy to tell - they look nothing alike!


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> Other people have to have the pleasure of discovering buds too







saoshyant said:


> I figure everyone else tries stuff blindly, so I should every now and again. Can't always leave it to Danneq golov17 vapman



And that's why i love being here


----------



## golov17

Blox B320


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, received the first photo of my custom earbuds.  This is before any painting, so not the finished look.  Also was asked what my preferred sound signature was, so certainly curious what the end result will be!
  

  
 I suspect this will be a very pretty earbud by the time it's finished


----------



## DBaldock9

saoshyant said:


> Well, received the first photo of my custom earbuds.  This is before any painting, so not the finished look.  Also was asked what my preferred sound signature was, so certainly curious what the end result will be!
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect this will be a very pretty earbud by the time it's finished


 
 Did you get to specify a color scheme, as well as an audio tuning?


----------



## Saoshyant

Yep, I mentioned I liked a particular style that was previously used as well as my preferred colors, so I'm sure I'll love it.


----------



## Nec3

purplesun said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Edifier-H180-Stereo-Earbuds-Headphone/dp/B016AY6CB0/ref=sr_1_17?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1486795465&sr=1-17&keywords=earbuds


 
  


vapman said:


> Qian39 is very shallow, comfortable, and has a good quality internal cable restraint for when you are sleeping and roll over on your buds. $6
> 
> edit: hmm, something readily available domestically.... i would think auglamour rx1?
> 
> I also recommend the H180 posted below: vvvvvvvv


 

 Awesome! Thank you both, I have an H180 on its' way. I'm glad the earbud hobby can be so "cheap"


----------



## purplesun

nec3 said:


> Awesome! Thank you both, I have an H180 on its' way. I'm glad the earbud hobby can be so "cheap"


 
  
 That cost more than 3 times what I usually spend on my earbuds.
 Here's another good earbud thread where value-connoisseurs aka cheapskates hang out.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds/435


----------



## Nec3

purplesun said:


> That cost more than 3 times what I usually spend on my earbuds.
> Here's another good earbud thread where value-connoisseurs aka cheapskates hang out.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 annnd I just bought 3 qian39's, 2 of them as gifts...

 LOL this hobby orz


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

purplesun said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Edifier-H180-Stereo-Earbuds-Headphone/dp/B016AY6CB0/ref=sr_1_17?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1486795465&sr=1-17&keywords=earbuds


 
 Those Edifier's have the same shell as Philips SHE3800, does anyone have them both and can say if they sound different?


----------



## notamethlab

saoshyant said:


> Well, received the first photo of my custom earbuds.  This is before any painting, so not the finished look.  Also was asked what my preferred sound signature was, so certainly curious what the end result will be!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Looks very interesting, what was the cost if I may ask??


----------



## vapman

laughmoredaily said:


> Those Edifier's have the same shell as Philips SHE3800, does anyone have them both and can say if they sound different?


 
 They are very different sound.
  
@Saoshyant looking good, now i can't help but wonder if my yuin shell designs sounds better


----------



## Saoshyant

notamethlab said:


> Looks very interesting, what was the cost if I may ask??




$55 plus shipping and Western Union fees


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> $55 plus shipping *and Western Union fees*


 






 That is wild. You are more of a risk taker than i!


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman said:


> That is wild. You are more of a risk taker than i!


 
  
 They weren't sure exactly how much shipping was, and figured it should be 25-30, so I just sent 35 to make sure it was enough.  WU fees were 12, so I paid $102 total.


----------



## rkw

nec3 said:


> I'm looking for a fast solution I can buy from amazon/newegg...
> 
> Durability is the highest priority over everything else. The next would be a natural midrange with no sibilance.


 
  
 Not a fast solution, but something to consider for the future —  1More EO303 or EO320. Solidly built, like a tank.


----------



## weedophile

I will recommend the Philips SHE3800 if u havent own one. If u manage to get a working one it will be probably the clearest, most detailed earbud u can get under 10 (which it is to my ears).



nec3 said:


> Awesome! Thank you both, I have an H180 on its' way. I'm glad the earbud hobby can be so "cheap"


----------



## Frederick Wang

weedophile said:


> I will recommend the Philips SHE3800 if u havent own one. If u manage to get a working one it will be probably the clearest, most detailed earbud u can get under 10 (which it is to my ears).


 
 I second it. 
 For the brief time I owned SHE3800, E808+ & Qian39, SHE3800 suited my taste best


----------



## weedophile

Frederick Wang

The E808+ and Qian39 are by no means not as good, just that the Philips does it a little better. But i would rank the E808+ together with the SHE3800 due it have a disgusting soundstage for its price too (got it at 4usd with shipping, similar to the Philips). It has better bass imo but the Philips has this detailed presentation that no buds at the price can beat (again to my ears).

The only thing i dont like abt the E808+ is probably its J cables lol.


----------



## Frederick Wang

weedophile said:


> @Frederick Wang
> 
> The E808+ and Qian39 are by no means not as good, just that the Philips does it a little better. But i would rank the E808+ together with the SHE3800 due it have a disgusting soundstage for its price too (got it at 4usd with shipping, similar to the Philips). It has better bass imo but the Philips has this detailed presentation that no buds at the price can beat (again to my ears).
> 
> The only thing i dont like abt the E808+ is probably its J cables lol.


 
 I cannot agree more. No one of the three is clearly above any of the others, it all come down to preference. I just happen to like the Philips better for the music I listen to. 
  
 The asymmetry of E808+ cable drives me mad, purely a psychological thing...


----------



## Majin

You guy really make me wanna order the SHE3800 again since mine was DOA.
 But i am still on the quest to find a cheap earbud with mic (+controls).
  
 Since the monk is more expensive now the best budget earphone would be the qian25.


----------



## To.M

Guys I want to step up on the buds ladder, so do you know what the sound signature of YINMAN 150ohm is? I like their design and the price is reasonable too


----------



## Nec3

I have Shozy Zero's but the microphonics and the idea of earwax being plugged in my ears for 8 hours doesn't sit well with me. I bought 100 earbud foams so that when there's too much earwax on the foam I'd simply toss those out and cover up the earbuds again.


----------



## chinmie

Just met with mr. Adhi @rholupat to test-compare the Edimun v3, Red De'mun, Blue De"mun, and Abnormal Dietris, also testing the BMac amp...and came home with the Red De'mun and a smile on my face 
 thank you mr. Adhi for being patient 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . next i might purchase the BMac


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

chinmie said:


> Just met with mr. Adhi @rholupat to test-compare the Edimun v3, Red De'mun, Blue De"mun, and Abnormal Dietris, also testing the BMac amp...and came home with the Red De'mun and a smile on my face
> thank you mr. Adhi for being patient
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Can you give me an impression & comparison between the Dietris Vs the Others?
  
 Thanks


----------



## Newfish-888

vapman said:


> Would also rec VE Asura 2.0!



Hi vapman I got some different point of view,To be honestly,I am a puresounds fan from China.
In China there is a consensus that PS600 is easy to drive and Ty650 hard to drive ,and I feel the same with those comments from taobao.I received my PS600 for 3 day and totally love it.I was shocked when I plugged it into my hifiman901u.Pure,detailed sound,vocal is sweet also (Might benefit from 901U),super large soundstage and very good "spacesence" ,just like I stand in the front of stage ;When I plug it into my Meizu pro5 ,I still got a wonderful sound , but not very musical , So I think it's really easy to drive .Haha. Do you agree with me ?
I think you are a vocal/pop music lover.right?


----------



## noknok23

newfish-888 said:


> Hi vapman I got some different point of view,To be honestly,I am a puresounds fan from China.
> In China there is a consensus that PS600 is easy to drive and Ty650 hard to drive ,and I feel the same with those comments from taobao.


 
 Hi Newfish-888, im curious to know what is the consensus about seahf650 in china if any? thanks


----------



## vapman

frederick wang said:


> I cannot agree more. No one of the three is clearly above any of the others, it all come down to preference. I just happen to like the Philips better for the music I listen to.
> 
> The asymmetry of E808+ cable drives me mad, purely a psychological thing...




Pop the 808 open and recable it! If you can't do that yourself i seem to remember you live in diy heaven


----------



## vapman

chinmie said:


> Just met with mr. Adhi @rholupat
> to test-compare the Edimun v3, Red De'mun, Blue De"mun, and Abnormal Dietris, also testing the BMac amp...and came home with the Red De'mun and a smile on my face
> thank you mr. Adhi for being patient   . next i might purchase the BMac




What was your thought on blue vs red demun? I still love my bmac. Wish it had stronger output though. I double amp it sometimes.



newfish-888 said:


> Hi vapman I got some different point of view,To be honestly,I am a puresounds fan from China.
> In China there is a consensus that PS600 is easy to drive and Ty650 hard to drive ,and I feel the same with those comments from taobao.I received my PS600 for 3 day and totally love it.I was shocked when I plugged it into my hifiman901u.Pure,detailed sound,vocal is sweet also (Might benefit from 901U),super large soundstage and very good "spacesence" ,just like I stand in the front of stage ;When I plug it into my Meizu pro5 ,I still got a wonderful sound , but not very musical , So I think it's really easy to drive .Haha. Do you agree with me ?
> I think you are a vocal/pop music lover.right?




I cant tell if you are telling me you tried asura 2 and like it less.

I would not call it really easy to drive. It is just as hard to drive as ty 650 to me. Ty 650 and puresounds 600 are so different sounding they are hardly comparable. Ty 650 needs more amp power to sound "alive" but when you amp the ty 650 i think it edges out the ps600 because its more neutral and balanced therefore more studio tuned imo... makes the puresound 600 more a "vocal oriented" bud than a "studio monitor" tuning to me. they are so similar though.

If you have heard asura 2 i find your comments on puresounds 600 very strange. If you have not heard it... Try it. And tell me if you feel the same about your puresound 600 afterwards.

I have found i prefer the puresound for using with old pro audio gear that can blow out low impedance headphones easily. It does not feel delicate as ty 650.

Puresounds 600 has an ok but not exceptional soundstage on any device. It is better on some than others but it is purely horizontal. As i stated, you can not have any sense of front to back with puresounds 600 so i stopped using them for games.

Anyway you are right they sound nice with the right dap. But i think ty 650 does too. Puresounds is not for EQ heads like me. It is probably better to classical or pop music fans.

I think you can call me a hip-hop and bass lover. 


AKAI and puresound 600
Dont laugh at my messy floor. Its my DIY room.


----------



## batonchik03

Guys, hello! On your advice bought shoZy Cygnus. Really enjoyed)), hope it will last long! Thanks


----------



## vapman

Buds you can safely use with the iFi Micro iDSD on Turbo Mode (or any other 4W+ amp at full power) Ranked by how much power they can take with no problem, before sound either distorts or becomes uncontrolled, with extreme sub bass EQ and bass boost switch set to "full". For those who like to feel like their earbuds are about to explode with energy.   

*VE Asura 2.0*
*TY 650*
*Recabled vintage Sony bud*
*Qian39*
*VE Monk+*
*Baldor E100*
*Yinman 150 (I don't own 500 OR i only assume it would be better)*
*SHE3800*
*Sony E808+*
  
 If they didn't make the list and I own them, they couldn't handle being fed over a full watt of power.   
  
*The only one that could take 1W but with the EQ bypassed.... Puresounds 600.*
  
 No earbuds were harmed in the process of this test.
  
​  ​


----------



## Karl2009

golov17 said:


> Blox B320


 

 Any comment about its sound, please?


----------



## golov17

karl2009 said:


> Any comment about its sound, please?


 forward mids, good bass and treble, strange sound sig, but original, i like it not for vocal


----------



## purplesun

frederick wang said:


> The asymmetry of E808+ cable drives me mad, purely a psychological thing...


 


vapman said:


> Pop the 808 open and recable it! If you can't do that yourself i seem to remember you live in diy heaven


 
 Either one of these two $0.50 Y-cables will make good 1-to1 replacements. Almost unchanged E808+ sound. Perhaps a bit less grainy.
  
 https://world.taobao.com/item/42830862853.htm
 https://world.taobao.com/item/522091837778.htm
  
 PS: Be careful opening the shell. Recommend masking tape to hold driver & front cover together at earliest possible moment. And only remove just before closing up.


----------



## chinmie

midnightempest said:


> Can you give me an impression & comparison between the Dietris Vs the Others?
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 The Dietris is mid oriented buds with rolled off trebles and slightly attenuated bass. the mids are thick and nice though,great for vocals, but it's just not my preferred sound
 The Edimun (rhodium jack) is also great sounding, but to my ears the bass is a little boomy. the soundstage might be a little bigger to the de'muns, but the de'muns is more clear even in the noisy environment where we met (see below)
  


vapman said:


> What was your thought on blue vs red demun? I still love my bmac. Wish it had stronger output though. I double amp it sometimes.


 
  
 I met with adhi rholupat at food court mall, with blaring music from a nearby ice skating rink, so it was not a real ideal place to listen to earbuds...but that's where i found that the de'muns really excel compared to the others. With the music playing at the same volume, the de'muns displayed the music with clarity and focus, it's like listening to the music in a soundproofed studio (the dietris and edimun still lets the background sound kind off interfere with the music), but the strange part is I can still hear adhi talking to me clearly. With the edimun and dietris i have to take them off to listen to his sentences clearly.
  
 I also bring my mrice e100, toneking tp16 and edifier h185, and the one that can also play the music clearly regardless the background noise is the h185, but the de'muns are a few levels above the h185 in every department. The h185 is like listening to speakers set parallel to my ears, while the de'muns sounded like really wearing a headphone, with the sound coming not only parallel but also above the ear level
  
 now between the red and blue, the sounded similar, but the blue has more energy and harmonics on treble frequencies...it's like the cymbals are hit harder. I prefer the softer treble sound on the red, and also the red is slightly better at mids, and sounded a tad clearer on that noisy place. But the both are outstanding. according to adhi, the blue and red only differs in cable. the driver tweaks are the same.
  
 PS: they all are fresh demo stocks with no or minimal burn in, so that might be a factor why the edimun is underperforming, because I read that the edimun requires some burn in time to shine while the de'muns sounded great from the start


----------



## vapman

chinmie said:


> now between the red and blue, the sounded similar, but the blue has more energy and harmonics on treble frequencies...it's like the cymbals are hit harder. I prefer the softer treble sound on the red, and also the red is slightly better at mids, and sounded a tad clearer on that noisy place. But the both are outstanding. according to adhi, the blue and red only differs in cable. the driver tweaks are the same.
> 
> PS: they all are fresh demo stocks with no or minimal burn in, so that might be a factor why the edimun is underperforming, because I read that the edimun requires some burn in time to shine while the de'muns sounded great from the start


 
 This is probably the best answer I could have asked for. A well deserved +1 for you.


----------



## chinmie

vapman said:


> This is probably the best answer I could have asked for. A well deserved +1 for you.


 
 glad i can help. you also deserved a big thanks, because even though i'm indonesian, i might not have known the de'muns and edimun if it weren't for @golov17 , @Danneq , and your reviews


----------



## vapman

chinmie said:


> glad i can help. you also deserved a big thanks, because even though i'm indonesian, i might not have known the de'muns and edimun if it weren't for @golov17 , @Danneq , and your reviews


 
 That is cool, that those of us so far from Indonesia can still help Indonesians 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There are a lot of posts about those buds so if you ever missed it i will say it again - having not (yet) heard blue demun - *red demun is the only bud that could beat MX985 at its own game to my ears. * EQ, non EQ, amped and non amped, red demun beat MX985 every time. I love my red demun.
  
 I can only hope I will surpass the Demun with my own mods 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but until then and probably even after I will continue to hold Mr. Kandela's Demuns in the highest regard.


----------



## notamethlab

purplesun said:


> Either one of these two $0.50 Y-cables will make good 1-to1 replacements. Almost unchanged E808+ sound. Perhaps a bit less grainy.
> 
> https://world.taobao.com/item/42830862853.htm
> https://world.taobao.com/item/522091837778.htm
> ...



I'd also like to recommend these, a bit more expensive but, they work very well with the e808+. I bought them from aliexpress first, then found I them on taobao and bought more. 

http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=522553643625


----------



## purplesun

notamethlab said:


> I'd also like to recommend these, a bit more expensive but, they work very well with the e808+. I bought them from aliexpress first, then found I them on taobao and bought more.
> 
> http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=522553643625


 
  
 Yeah, a more polished sound than stock. But I find them a bit laid back for my taste with the mids set a bit further back. Yet another good cable option for E808+!


----------



## Frederick Wang

vapman said:


> Pop the 808 open and recable it! If you can't do that yourself i seem to remember you live in diy heaven


 
 Done that... or rather, tried that but end up destroying all 3 earbuds, SAD. (damn, this Donald Trump impression just don't stop.)


----------



## Newfish-888

noknok23 said:


> Hi Newfish-888, im curious to know what is the consensus about seahf650 in china if any? thanks


 
 From offical intruduction and feedbacks ~
 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.28.VaNbVU&id=538628060374&ns=1&abbucket=11#detail


----------



## headjelly

newfish-888 said:


> In China there is a consensus that PS600 is easy to drive and Ty650 hard to drive ,and I feel the same with those comments from taobao.


 
  
 I don't think that PS600 are very easy to drive. True, I can get acceptable volume from a low-power source but not acceptable sound quality. Of all my high-impedance buds, I think that Yinman 500 are the easiest to drive.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I just wanted to share this photo I took. 
  
 Currently listening to the MusicMaker/ToneKing Ting, one of my favorite earbuds.

 --


----------



## Newfish-888

vapman said:


> Buds you can safely use with the iFi Micro iDSD on Turbo Mode (or any other 4W+ amp at full power)Ranked by how much power they can take with no problem, before sound either distorts or becomes uncontrolled, with extreme sub bass EQ and bass boost switch set to "full". For those who like to feel like their earbuds are about to explode with energy.
> 
> *VE Asura 2.0*
> *TY 650*
> ...



From another angle, we can think that its power capacity is bigger， sound stability is better，：）
I think ‘easy or not easy’ is decided by soundstage 、detail、positioning、”spacesence“...etc when directly drived with daps ，after all it is a portable headset ;The reason why I  like ty400 and 400s  less  is that they could't give me a relaxable soundstage,vocal is too close,“spacesense” is not good enough;Anyway ,people's taste is different;Choose those what you like


----------



## AudioNewbi3

newfish-888 said:


> From offical intruduction and feedbacks ~
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.28.VaNbVU&id=538628060374&ns=1&abbucket=11#detail


 
 看见了800-1700欧


 Look closely and one can see 800-1700 ohm section in Ty's official store


----------



## vapman

newfish-888 said:


> From another angle, we can think that its power capacity is big , sound stability is good；LOL
> I think ‘easy or not easy’ is decided by soundstage 、detail、positioning、”spacesence“...etc when directly drived with daps after all it is a portable headset ;The reason why I  like ty400 and 400s  less  is that they could't give me a relaxable soundstage,vocal is too close,“spacesense” is not good enough;Anyway ,people's taste is different;Choose those what you like


 
 The thing to me is Puresound 600 is totally better if no eq. But with more amp power, i would prefer to use ty 650. for example, ty 650 can be loud enough at iDSD Micro normal mode, but it sounds BETTER on turbo mode 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
  
  


audionewbi3 said:


> 看见了800-1700欧
> 
> 
> Look closely and one can see 800-1700 ohm section in Ty's official store


 
 the problem for as long as i've seen it there is you click, and....


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> The thing to me is Puresound 600 is totally better if no eq. But with more amp power, i would prefer to use ty 650. for example, ty 650 can be loud enough at iDSD Micro normal mode, but it sounds BETTER on turbo mode
> 
> 
> 
> the problem for as long as i've seen it there is you click, and....





Spoiler



IF and sound field is a powerful plug, tri-band is still very balanced. Although not yet completely open but the bottom is the sound I really like, thick and high density. Very much like the plug!
2016 年 12 月 20 日 16:24 Color classification: magic red
￼
H *** 0
Store special good, in the double-11 shopping not only sent a beautiful headset box and a pair of sponge earplugs, gave a pair of God Bless the flat plug, in this expressed gratitude. Received 650 Euro plug, after a few days with the "HiFi" player straight push, pushing the permeability, listening to a sense of bass just dive depth, put away simply, tri-band more efforts. The overall feeling of this plug is more balanced Chiang Kai-shek, very Naiting, no sound of evil. So the 650 European Union to listen to a sense of no less than the first to buy the Baia 990-600 European big ears.
Color classification: magic red
￼
A *** 2
Sound good to hear, the sound is very flexible, very good
Color classification: magic red
[11 days after the additional]: personal feelings, to buy before: so expensive, *** tease me & hellip ;. After listening to headphones to hand: so I see how much money there is a card, enough to come one! Solo, a prelude to a California hotel, I did not like to hear this song before, because the lengthy prelude to my flat head sounded like a group of people elastic rubber band, people upset. I could feel that I was sitting in front of them about five meters to listen to music, the details of the sound like the same as eggs to me, I can hear the nail texture of the different guitar sound caused by a slight difference , You can hear the left side of the musicians swallowed voice, heard the stage lighting and floor friction when moving sound. Followed by sparse around some applause, while all the cheers as prairie fire as even a piece of the original around the audience! I nodded head to distinguish: there are about a thousand people sitting around me, female voice floating in the top, male is slightly in the next, there are four hundred women, six hundred men. The two men from me have chronic rhinitis, because I heard his heavy breathing, the woman next to me is a pregnant woman, I heard when the fetus flips with amniotic fluid flow. Followed by the north east 13.5 degrees came drums, low to the center of the earth, but contains a magma of energy, full flexibility. Suddenly there are countless ears filled with water in the balloon close to the location of the tympanic membrane have exploded, the whole body into a tight rhythm of the rhythm into, and even consciousness is also the storm-like drums and guitar strangulation becomes angry if Gossam, I do not moan: "Oh ~"
￼
￼
Dream *** 8
After listening to ten days, the underlying heritage than the new 400 much higher personal feeling to push the HP650 must be used to put gallbladder, great taste
Color classification: magic red
[43 days after the additional]: more than a month, the sound completely open, enhance the huge,
￼
Spin *** sound
Headset is very beautiful, enjoy the music go! Thank you boss to send headphones!
￼
Color classification: magic red
￼
Live *** Zheng
Super good stores, particularly patient recommendations, did not belong to the scope of the box to send headphones, but still gave me headset box, first began to promise I made SF, and shipping personnel may be due to communication problems, made in the store, found Immediately contact the shipping staff, give me a timely change over, this is the best I've ever seen stores, praise! . Headphones to listen to sense of burning and then burn the machine?
2016 年 11 月 16 日 20:11 Color classification: magic red
￼
Ants only
Xinan Island electroplating red ~ hard bright Sao of the flat headphones ~ wire color with a good look ~ sound field surprisingly large ~ listen to some of the 90's old songs, especially the male is very magnetic taste, like a good resolution analytic resolution New 400 better, but like the sound field must not miss 650 ~
￼
Color classification: red
￼
Y ***
Headphone shell is much more beautiful than before, the line is Needless to say, the quality of the eyes can be seen, a start to listen to the sound field can feel great, good analysis, listening to a period of time is getting better, Push really do need thrust, usually mainly out of the street to listen to more, definitely worth having, flat head plug security travel good protection, coupled with a good sound quality, on the road to break the noise of the car out of contrast, quiet time direct scene switch.
￼
Color classification: red
￼
Too *** sound
Totally natural, Zhuyuanyurun voice, IF strong. There is no new analysis of the kind of very violent feeling of 400, similar to the sound of Whiston, for the old burn. E18 push feeling good on the thrust requirements is still relatively high, but the phone can also listen to the human voice. The rest are still taste. Another very good workmanship materials, burgundy paint technology is very particular about, like coated with a layer of nail polish. Wire is bluffing, a few old burn a look that is more than 2k level headphones.
Color Classification: Red
￼
T *** s
Work and wire to enhance the very large, this must be like. With the new 400 before the European, are a good plug, the style is different, I like, can not say which is better, more monitoring of 650 Europe, show the ability of the equipment stronger, the new 400, on the contrary, basically what equipment Can show their own style, the two plugs are Chiang Kai-shek's tuning, relatively speaking, 650 Europe or more to eat some thrust. In short worth a try, in a good performance of the equipment is very good!
2016 年 10 月 10 日 20:27 Color classification: magic red
￼
L *** 7
Simply put it difficult to push, but pushed a good interpretation of the sound field are good this price is not the value of the specific description of the & ldquo; sacrifice anyway, get a 08mp still can
￼
Color classification: magic red
￼
Z *** g
Sound great, but the sound a bit boring, poor resolution, pot burning look
Color Category: Magic Red 650 Europe
￼
W *** 0
Express to receive direct confirmation, all in the words
2016 年 12 月 20 日 19:15 Color classification: magic red
￼
On the *** 7
Burn machine, at first glance is also good
Color classification: magic red 650 Europe
￼
R *** m
A word, very good!
Color Classification: Magic Red 650 Europe
￼
I *** when
Logistics forced acridine! ??
￼￼￼
Color classification: magic red
￼
C *** x
Sound does have the feeling of wearing a head, burn machine, the sound should be good
Color classification: magic red
￼
Q *** k
In the high-impedance home to buy a fourth pair of headphones. 650 Europe with the new 400 sound like, but it is another style. 400 Europe is very resistant to hearing, a kind of childhood music at the beginning of the feeling of listening, no longer a simple toss equipment. Switch from 400 to 650 in Europe, the human voice, back tone about to open, the sound field is really great, this is a sense to the plug? 650 can be said that the upgraded version of 400 Europe to enhance the resolution, sound field, IF. Perhaps not to open the reason, did not dive deep 400 low. Perhaps in order to more balanced, so deliberately low-frequency received a little. In the 650 did not arrive before the 400 European very satisfied, that Han is not missing. But received 650, the switch between the 400 Europe and 650 Europe to listen to the same song, and finally I chose 650. But also an ear thing.
Color classification: red
￼
L *** k
Well, conscience for praise!
2016 年 10 月 30 日 19:05 Color classification: magic red
￼
T *** 5
The most powerful high-impedance headphones, what Kay high resistance is not worth mentioning ah!
Color classification: red
[2 days after the additional]: I do not lo port portable do not buy this machine (or on the mill slightly! My Colorful C4 are so after the lo friends), lo port portable portable amp (Same store e18 amp can be), the best platform or put! Do not have to buy a new 400 or G3! G3 cost is very high, what machine can! But the new 400 word of mouth has been appreciated at home and abroad! There are amp and portable lo port, you think you can grab it? Circle are not enough points, the overseas grab blood, and grab the line also slowly it! 7/10 of the coil scrap rate you slowly line it! This does not make money goods you do not reminders insect brother, and we have to force him to engage in a fever circle, you think money? Insects do a few play even get it!
Login Registration Region:
PC version
© 2017 Zhejiang B2-20140703
Contact the seller
Favorite baby
Buy now


----------



## Joy Boy

chinmie said:


> now between the red and blue, the sounded similar, but the blue has more energy and harmonics on treble frequencies...it's like the cymbals are hit harder. I prefer the softer treble sound on the red, and also the red is slightly better at mids, and sounded a tad clearer on that noisy place. But the both are outstanding. according to adhi, the blue and red only differs in cable. the driver tweaks are the same.
> 
> PS: they all are fresh demo stocks with no or minimal burn in, so that might be a factor why the edimun is underperforming, because I read that the edimun requires some burn in time to shine while the de'muns sounded great from the start



So, can i assume that the blue one is more suitable for headbanger?
Wow..i really want to try it.

And for edimun, burn it at least 50hrs makes big improvement


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, the more I progress in this hobby, the more I think about the first expensive earbud I acquired, the MX985.  While I know it's considered one of the best earbuds to many people's ears, there's just nothing about it that in comparison to other similarly or even lesser quality earbuds that really grabs my attention.  My concern is that while this could easily be explained by a difference in taste, it could also be explained by being a fake as I have nothing else to compare against.  The one I own has a very laid back and non-aggressive sound to it, possibly due to a large soundstage which I am a horrible judge of due to having virtually no depth perception, so I can't really judge distances whatsoever.  For the same volume on a Walnut, the Zen 2 for example has nearly the same vocal volume, but instruments feel far more present and louder.  Instruments like harp have clear and well defined sound, so that's good.  Electric guitar is decent, and certainly ahead of drums and bass, which feels lacking somewhat.  It could be that this is a treble-head earbud of which I am no means a member as I am by far least concerned with the treble portion of the spectrum, loving bass and vocals.  Vocals themselves are a little distant compared to other vocal-based earbuds, but have a life-like sound to them.  Considering the MX 985 is 16 ohm and 120 dB/mW, and the Zen 2 is 320 ohm and both have a rather similar vocal volume given same power, that concerns me as well.
  
 At best, the MX985 is a poor match for me, at worst it's a flat out fake.  It's certainly a concern that's been growing with me as time goes on, and part of the reason I've never been willing to see about trading them off as I certainly don't have a real love for these.  Maybe I'm overthinking it...  but the more I experience in this hobby, especially with acquiring the Zen 2 & Edimun V3 this past week, I'm growing in concern.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> the problem for as long as i've seen it there is you click, and....


 
 It says it will be comming in the future


----------



## PureSounds-cn

We made it several months before, and we will make some showpieces but not release recently.....


----------



## fairx

puresounds-cn said:


> We made it several months before, and we will make some showpieces but not release recently.....




Makes me wonder. Are the trend now is pushing the impedance higher to get more control or they're (the maker) actually progressing in developing the driver membrane altogether. People mention biocelulose, titanium coating etc in iem driver development all the time. 

 how about the earbud segment? Do they also actively developing new idea or rehash some popular driver design? I heard some maker use graphene (prolly just marketing term) before but not much info.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

puresounds-cn said:


> We made it several months before, and we will make some showpieces but not release recently.....


 
 Wow！


----------



## Ira Delphic

bloodypenguin said:


> I just wanted to share this photo I took.
> 
> Currently listening to the MusicMaker/ToneKing Ting, one of my favorite earbuds.
> 
> --


 
  
 How does the fit of the Ting compare to MX500 shell? The only thing holding me back on the Ting is a possible fit issue. Nice photo!


----------



## Joy Boy

saoshyant said:


> Well, the more I progress in this hobby, the more I think about the first expensive earbud I acquired, the MX985.  While I know it's considered one of the best earbuds to many people's ears, there's just nothing about it that in comparison to other similarly or even lesser quality earbuds that really grabs my attention.  My concern is that while this could easily be explained by a difference in taste, it could also be explained by being a fake as I have nothing else to compare against.  The one I own has a very laid back and non-aggressive sound to it, possibly due to a large soundstage which I am a horrible judge of due to having virtually no depth perception, so I can't really judge distances whatsoever.  For the same volume on a Walnut, the Zen 2 for example has nearly the same vocal volume, but instruments feel far more present and louder.  Instruments like harp have clear and well defined sound, so that's good.  Electric guitar is decent, and certainly ahead of drums and bass, which feels lacking somewhat.  It could be that this is a treble-head earbud of which I am no means a member as I am by far least concerned with the treble portion of the spectrum, loving bass and vocals.  Vocals themselves are a little distant compared to other vocal-based earbuds, but have a life-like sound to them.  Considering the MX 985 is 16 ohm and 120 dB/mW, and the Zen 2 is 320 ohm and both have a rather similar vocal volume given same power, that concerns me as well.
> 
> At best, the MX985 is a poor match for me, at worst it's a flat out fake.  It's certainly a concern that's been growing with me as time goes on, and part of the reason I've never been willing to see about trading them off as I certainly don't have a real love for these.  Maybe I'm overthinking it...  but the more I experience in this hobby, especially with acquiring the Zen 2 & Edimun V3 this past week, I'm growing in concern.



So it's not just me that feels what you just felt.
It's not my taste too. It has great soundstage and lively sound, but other than that, i'm not impress. 
I mean, even blox be7 and ve ashura beta can out-perform it.
But once again, maybe it's about sound prefference and its sound is definitely not the one that i'm looking for. I got it first together with ve zen v2 and ve zen v1, and i've ever written my comparison. My opinion isn't too different with yours


----------



## golov17

joy boy said:


> So it's not just me that feels what you just felt.
> It's not my taste too. It has great soundstage and lively sound, but other than that, i'm not impress.
> I mean, even blox be7 and ve ashura beta can out-perform it.
> But once again, maybe it's about sound prefference and its sound is definitely not the one that i'm looking for. I got it first together with ve zen v2 and ve zen v1, and i've ever written my comparison. My opinion isn't too different with yours


Same here, not my cup of tea..


----------



## golov17

After 100 h of burn, really nice my pair PS260, without amp


----------



## ctaxxxx

Hello everyone,
  
 I've been lurking here for a while, but thought it was about time I actively joined the community! I have used several headphones and IEMs, but due to comfort issues with my TMJ (jaw problems... swelling, pain, etc.) I wouldn't keep most of them for very long. Saw this thread and thought I'd try out earbuds. Have had no regrets! Much better comfort, still amazing sound, but also hell of a lot cheaper than the $500+ I've spent on headphones. Here is my collection so far since following this thread (by rank of most favorite):
  
 1) CampFred
 2) QFred
 3) Shozy Stardust
 4) (Heavenly Sounds) Cadenza
 5) Red Demun
 6) Edimun _- considering selling_
 7) Rose Mojito _- selling_
 8) Zen 2 _- sold already_
 9) Monk+ (came with Zen's)
  
 - Should note that I went straight for TOTL, since I wanted something comparable in fidelity to what I was listening to before.
  
 I've already sold most of my existing stuff due to the comparable quality. I hope to add CAX Black (or the next flagship) to this list in the future, then I may not need any headphones! Well at least my open back ones...


----------



## Ira Delphic

ctaxxxx said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I've been lurking here for a while, but thought it was about time I actively joined the community! I have used several headphones and IEMs, but due to comfort issues with my TMJ (jaw problems... swelling, pain, etc.) I wouldn't keep most of them for very long. Saw this thread and thought I'd try out earbuds. Have had no regrets! Much better comfort, still amazing sound, but also hell of a lot cheaper than the $500+ I've spent on headphones. Here is my collection so far since following this thread (by rank of most favorite):
> 
> ...


 
  
 IMO, some cheap earbuds - there are a select few that are amazing, provide better sound value than headphones for the same price. I'm talking about sub $10 range. When you consider higher end earbuds, you pay for the convenience of wearing earbuds instead of having huge headphones on your head. I have a $35 pair of huge over ear monitor headphones - AKG clones - that arguably have much better overall SQ than my $100+ TY HP 650. But the headphones are uncomfortable to wear with glasses, and not comfortable for long periods of time. I don't think you can compare correctly designed $500+ headphones to anything on your list. Also, earbuds are more delicate than headphones (I know this is a generalization). That said, I prefer wearing earbuds!


----------



## ctaxxxx

ira delphic said:


> IMO, some cheap earbuds - there are a select few that are amazing, provide better sound value than headphones for the same price. I'm talking about sub $10 range. When you consider higher end earbuds, you pay for the convenience of wearing earbuds instead of having huge headphones on your head. I have a $35 pair of huge over ear monitor headphones - AKG clones - that arguably have much better overall SQ than my $100+ TY HP 650. But the headphones are uncomfortable to wear with glasses, and not comfortable for long periods of time. *I don't think you can compare correctly designed $500+ headphones to anything on your list.* Also, earbuds are more delicate than headphones (I know this is a generalization). That said, I prefer wearing earbuds!


 
 Definitely. I'm not saying earbuds like the QFred's are on par with an HD 650 or LCD 2 (both which I found really uncomfortable and sold later), but they were good enough in terms of sound and value that I don't see much of a point in keeping such expensive headphones, especially when comfort is my biggest issue. I also wear glasses, and some headphones just do not work with glasses. I'll probably still keep one or two headphones though for critical listening and enjoyment (my HE-560 don't give me comfort issues for one), but for the most part, I'll use earbuds for everything else.


----------



## mochill

Puresounds ps600 balanced definitely needs power, on fiio x7 with am3 module in night gain I need about 55 minimum volume to get a decent volume to listen to it


----------



## the diode

I may have missed it, but where can you get the Puresounds stuff??


----------



## golov17

the diode said:


> I may have missed it, but where can you get the Puresounds stuff??


from banned seller on AE


----------



## the diode

lol, that is pretty good..


----------



## noknok23

Edited...

My totl earbuds have better sq than my 5yr old headphones. But probably because it was "DJ" marketed and more focus on look than sound  (talking about the aiaiai tma1)


----------



## Ira Delphic

noknok23 said:


> Here is puresound, Am I allowed to post this?
> 
> removed





> My totl earbuds have better sq than my 5yr old headphones. But probably because it was "DJ" marketed and more focus on look than sound  (talking about the aiaiai tma1)


 
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Nope.


----------



## Danneq

saoshyant said:


> Well, the more I progress in this hobby, the more I think about the first expensive earbud I acquired, the MX985.  While I know it's considered one of the best earbuds to many people's ears, there's just nothing about it that in comparison to other similarly or even lesser quality earbuds that really grabs my attention.  My concern is that while this could easily be explained by a difference in taste, it could also be explained by being a fake as I have nothing else to compare against.  The one I own has a very laid back and non-aggressive sound to it, possibly due to a large soundstage which I am a horrible judge of due to having virtually no depth perception, so I can't really judge distances whatsoever.  For the same volume on a Walnut, the Zen 2 for example has nearly the same vocal volume, but instruments feel far more present and louder.  Instruments like harp have clear and well defined sound, so that's good.  Electric guitar is decent, and certainly ahead of drums and bass, which feels lacking somewhat.  It could be that this is a treble-head earbud of which I am no means a member as I am by far least concerned with the treble portion of the spectrum, loving bass and vocals.  Vocals themselves are a little distant compared to other vocal-based earbuds, but have a life-like sound to them.  Considering the MX 985 is 16 ohm and 120 dB/mW, and the Zen 2 is 320 ohm and both have a rather similar vocal volume given same power, that concerns me as well.
> 
> At best, the MX985 is a poor match for me, at worst it's a flat out fake.  It's certainly a concern that's been growing with me as time goes on, and part of the reason I've never been willing to see about trading them off as I certainly don't have a real love for these.  Maybe I'm overthinking it...  but the more I experience in this hobby, especially with acquiring the Zen 2 & Edimun V3 this past week, I'm growing in concern.


 


 I have never heard of fake MX985. The housing just seems too complicated to copy, so I would imagine that the only fakes would have been made at the same factory by the "night shift".

 Perhaps you just don't like the sound signature. I still consider MX985 (& MX980/OMX980) to be among the most neutral earbuds I have heard. I like them alot and even if they have never been no 1 they have always been in my top (for a long time no 2 after Blox TM7 and now just pushed down to no 6). The only thing I find lacking on them is sub bass...

 I think that Celsus Gramo One has got a neutral type of sound but I could never get along with that sound. Still I overall prefer a more neutral type of sound.

 Red De'mun is very close to MX985, but to my ears it sounds more "colored" and less neutral. It's also got slightly peaky upper mids. Diomnes Lv2 is like that too, but it sounds so grand and magnificent that I have no problems ignoring the slightly peaky mids. It does not work well with metal, though, because of that.

 Back to the MX985, I think Sennheiser aimed for a reference type of sound and in my mind they truly succeeded with that. They surely went out of the TOTL earbud business with a bang.

  
  
 Quote:


ctaxxxx said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I've been lurking here for a while, but thought it was about time I actively joined the community! I have used several headphones and IEMs, but due to comfort issues with my TMJ (jaw problems... swelling, pain, etc.) I wouldn't keep most of them for very long. Saw this thread and thought I'd try out earbuds. Have had no regrets! Much better comfort, still amazing sound, but also hell of a lot cheaper than the $500+ I've spent on headphones. Here is my collection so far since following this thread (by rank of most favorite):
> 
> ...


 


 Wow! A head fier in my taste! It took me a couple of years to realize that I would only know what I liked if I bought and then kept what I liked and sold what I didn't like.

 How would you describe Shozy Stardust and HS Cadenza compared to CampFred? I have been thinking of buying both but I bought other stuff instead.


  


ira delphic said:


> IMO, some cheap earbuds - there are a select few that are amazing, provide better sound value than headphones for the same price. I'm talking about sub $10 range. When you consider higher end earbuds, you pay for the convenience of wearing earbuds instead of having huge headphones on your head. I have a $35 pair of huge over ear monitor headphones - AKG clones - that arguably have much better overall SQ than my $100+ TY HP 650. But the headphones are uncomfortable to wear with glasses, and not comfortable for long periods of time. I don't think you can compare correctly designed $500+ headphones to anything on your list. Also, earbuds are more delicate than headphones (I know this is a generalization). That said, I prefer wearing earbuds!


 


 CAX black ($280) beats my ATH ES10 portable headphones ($350+) in just about everything except bass. Heck, even CampFred can barely beat ES10 at everything except for bass quantity AND sound like full size headphones at the same time.

 Budget earbuds, for me mainly TY32 (version 1) and Monk+, are great as well. But there is a difference when going from a $5-10 earbud to a $150 earbud. Sure, the expensive ones are not 20-30 times better, but definitely much more accurate and detailed. I have personally pretty much abandoned $20-$100 earbuds since stuff like Monk+ can compete with most earbuds up to $100. Over that there is a big difference.

 Anyway, I do not doubt what one Head fier wrote in the Cypherus thread - that his pair of CAX black was almost as good as his LCD-X (I think that the sound signature of CAX black is aiming for the sound of LCD 3, if I remember correctly). A well tuned and well made pair of earbuds can amaze even the strongest doubter.


----------



## rkw

fairx said:


> Makes me wonder. Are the trend now is pushing the impedance higher to get more control or they're (the maker) actually progressing in developing the driver membrane altogether.


 

 There is very little progress in earbud technologies. The value from a manufacturer is tuning the current technology.
  
 There are business and marketing reasons to push for higher impedances. Yes, higher impedance gains more control but it is also aimed at a more premium market that is willing to pay higher prices. Most importantly, the profit margin is much higher. Think of cars. The luxury model with slightly nicer interior costs just a little more to manufacture than the base model, but it will sell at a much higher price, and the difference is all profit. The profit from mass market low end earbuds is very small. A manufacturer can get the same or more profit by selling fewer of a more premium (higher impedance) product.
  
 Another reason for higher impedance is that the earbud market is saturated with products that are very similar to each other (even look identical and using the same shells). It is hard to make your product stand out from competitors. Impedance is one of the few features to mark a product as different.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

ira delphic said:


> How does the fit of the Ting compare to MX500 shell? The only thing holding me back on the Ting is a possible fit issue. Nice photo!


 
  
 The housings of the Ting seem to fit me slightly better than the MX500 shell.  Unfortunately I can not say how exactly they will fit you.  It is just one of those things you will just have to try.

 --


----------



## ctaxxxx

> Originally Posted by *Danneq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Wow! A head fier in my taste! It took me a couple of years to realize that I would only know what I liked if I bought and then kept what I liked and sold what I didn't like.
> ...


 
  
 The Cadenza's are more V-shaped. I would say they are a more exaggerated Edimun's. Better extension on both sides, though a bit hot on the upper mids. I think a touch less of the awesome CampFred sub-bass for more mid-bass. 
  
 The Stardusts were my first earbuds that I really liked. Not too warm like the Zen's, and not too bright like the Mojito's. It would be easier to describe them as the Red Demun's, but with more treble extension I think. They sound more dynamic, but not as spacious as the Red Demun. A tiny bit less upper mids that can make the Red Demun sound shouty at times. I really enjoy them for metal. Gives guitars that edge and the snares just pop.
  
  


danneq said:


> Anyway, I do not doubt what one Head fier wrote in the Cypherus thread - that his pair of CAX black was almost as good as his LCD-X (I think that the sound signature of CAX black is aiming for the sound of LCD 3, if I remember correctly). A well tuned and well made pair of earbuds can amaze even the strongest doubter.


 
  
 If the CAX Black really do come close to the LCD's, then I would be a very happy man. I love the Audeze sound, but they are god awful in terms of comfort. The weight was not so bad, but the fazors kept stabbing my ears.


----------



## alvinlim2010

rkw said:


> There is very little progress in earbud technologies. The value from a manufacturer is tuning the current technology.
> 
> There are business and marketing reasons to push for higher impedances. Yes, higher impedance gains more control but it is also aimed at a more premium market that is willing to pay higher prices. Most importantly, the profit margin is much higher. Think of cars. The luxury model with slightly nicer interior costs just a little more to manufacture than the base model, but it will sell at a much higher price, and the difference is all profit. The profit from mass market low end earbuds is very small. A manufacturer can get the same or more profit by selling fewer of a more premium (higher impedance) product.
> 
> Another reason for higher impedance is that the earbud market is saturated with products that are very similar to each other (even look identical and using the same shells). It is hard to make your product stand out from competitors. Impedance is one of the few features to mark a product as different.



 


This is something that I notice as well, that now there is an influx of high impedance earbuds (150ohms and above) at markedly higher prices. Does it mean that these high impedance earbuds can scale better with better source? 

I was trying my Opus #1 with my various earbuds (**** PT15, Yuin PK2, MusicMaker Tomahawk), and I do feel that they do not scale up as well from my previous source (DX90).


----------



## vapman

alvinlim2010 said:


> rkw said:
> 
> 
> > There is very little progress in earbud technologies. The value from a manufacturer is tuning the current technology.
> ...


 
 the price is somewhat deserved on some of the high ohm models - need to try yinman still, but my ty 650 is still probably my best sounding bud along with asura 2 when you give it a super high power & clean source. Other buds just do not scale as well. Some exceptions of course.


----------



## Saoshyant

Danneq Thanks for the reply, I'll just assume it's a matter of taste for the MX 985 then. That level of neutrality is why I stopped my headphone upgrading at the HD700, worrying the 800 would be too polite to my ears.


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> @Danneq Thanks for the reply, I'll just assume it's a matter of taste for the MX 985 then. That level of neutrality is why I stopped my headphone upgrading at the HD700, worrying the 800 would be too polite to my ears.


 
 I can understand why some would love the  mx985 if you are the kind of person who loves a ruler flat FR. It isn't bad at anything because it can do anything competently. But, they really are just _so boring._ Technically proficient yes, but they are lifeless too.


----------



## Gideon Lim

Nice to meet you all from Indonesia, i would like to join any discussion or conversation here, so i braced myself to shown up now . sorry if my grammar a bit broken :V. 
  
  
  
 .


----------



## alvinlim2010

gideon lim said:


> Nice to meet you all from Indonesia, i would like to join any discussion or conversation here, so i braced myself to shown up now . sorry if my grammar a bit broken :V.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Welcome! I see a Shanling M2, properly amped!


----------



## Townyj

Just got my ABnormal Labs Dietris White 
  
 Definitely a thick sounding earbud, quite bassy and a rather large soundstage. Has been mentioned by a few others. Playing slower music, Chill, hip hop etc is does pretty darn well.


----------



## gobin

So I got my first ever Monk+ for about a week now, and I have to say, I'm simply blown away by its openness and airiness, while successfully capture most of the subtle details in any given songs.
 It's indeed, best $5 I've spent in a while. For casual bed time listening, these things is just perfect for me.
  
 Now that I've been hooked into the whole earbuds stuff, I need some consultants' oppinions on which of the below pairs should I pick up:
  
 1. Monk+ Espresso edition (if it ain't broken, why bother fixing/changing, right?)
 2. AUGLAMOUR RX-1 (the most eye-pleasing designs I've seen yet on earbuds, not sure about its SQ)
 3. K's 300ohm (I'm not completely certain that higher impedance will offer a better SQ, especially I'm planning not to use any amp)
  
 Thanks in advance.
  
 EDIT: I just drive my IEMs/Earbuds straight out of my laptop, Iphone 5 output. Source would often be non-premium Spotify, Youtube, or 320kps tracks at best.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Gobin, It might help to know which audio devices you'll use your new headphones with.


----------



## alvinlim2010

gobin said:


> So I got my first ever Monk+ for about a week now, and I have to say, I'm simply blown away by its openness and airiness, while successfully capture most of the subtle details in any given songs.
> 
> 
> It's indeed, best $5 I've spent in a while. For casual bed time listening, these things is just perfect for me.
> ...



 


I have the RX1, and I would dare say that they packed a lot of goodies at that price point. Construction is good, to me they sound rather bright and loud, bass is slightly lacking.


----------



## gobin

> I have the RX1, and I would dare say that they packed a lot of goodies at that price point. Construction is good, to me they sound rather bright and loud, bass is slightly lacking.


 
 The inclusion of such abundant amount of goodies is what make me uncomfortable about those. At least for me, it means that less money goes toward the earbuds itself (or its R&D). I rather have the earbuds packed in a plastic wrap like the Monk+ (top quality packaging). So have you find any good use for the metal logo piece?


----------



## alvinlim2010

gobin said:


> The inclusion of such abundant amount of goodies is what make me uncomfortable about those. At least for me, it means that less money goes toward the earbuds itself (or its R&D). I rather have the earbuds packed in a plastic wrap like the Monk+ (top quality packaging). So have you find any good use for the metal logo piece?



 


I agree that there are strong contenders at that price range, and the Monk+ (which I own too) is one that performs way above its price point. I haven't find an use for the metal logo (shoved somewhere unknown already) but the wooden stand is useful! Been sitting on my desk nicely


----------



## rkw

alvinlim2010 said:


> I have the RX1, and I would dare say that they packed a lot of goodies at that price point. Construction is good, to me they sound rather bright and loud, bass is slightly lacking.


 
  
 I found the Auglamour RX-1 to be a disaster for classical music. String instruments sound shrill and unpleasant. Symphony orchestra sounds thin and tinny.


----------



## alvinlim2010

rkw said:


> I found the Auglamour RX-1 to be a disaster for classical music. String instruments sound shrill and unpleasant. Symphony orchestra sounds thin and tinny.



 


Yes I agree, I am finding it hard to pair the RX1 with a certain type of genre...I haven't taken time to experiment extensively though


----------



## vapman

alvinlim2010 said:


> rkw said:
> 
> 
> > I found the Auglamour RX-1 to be a disaster for classical music. String instruments sound shrill and unpleasant. Symphony orchestra sounds thin and tinny.
> ...


 
 Anything that does not call for particularly good extension on either end


----------



## Danneq

ctaxxxx said:


> The Cadenza's are more V-shaped. I would say they are a more exaggerated Edimun's. Better extension on both sides, though a bit hot on the upper mids. I think a touch less of the awesome CampFred sub-bass for more mid-bass.
> 
> The Stardusts were my first earbuds that I really liked. Not too warm like the Zen's, and not too bright like the Mojito's. It would be easier to describe them as the Red Demun's, but with more treble extension I think. They sound more dynamic, but not as spacious as the Red Demun. A tiny bit less upper mids that can make the Red Demun sound shouty at times. I really enjoy them for metal. Gives guitars that edge and the snares just pop.
> 
> ...


 


 Thanks for your impressions on the Cadenzas and Stardusts. Sounds like Cadenza is not too far from Diomnes Lv2. Your preference when it comes to soud signature seems to be not too far from mine, so going by your impressions of Cadenza I might just as well skip it. I really like Diomnes Lv2 even if upper mids and treble can be a bit "pushy" sometimes...

 Stardust also seems to be not too far from Diomnes Lv2. Hmmm... Then I might skip that one as well. Or try it if I find a second hand pair.

 I have never heard any of the LCD headphones. In places like Yodobashi in Japan I have auditioned stuff like H650, AKG K701, ATH W2000 etc

 I mostly listen to music on the go so earbuds is an ideal choice for me. CAX black truly is magnificent, but not very practical for portable use because of the stiff cardas cable. CampFred is a step down in just about everything, but I still find it very enjoyable. With CampFred I tap my feet and bob my head to the music. With CAX black I just sit quiet and think "wow!".
  


saoshyant said:


> @Danneq Thanks for the reply, I'll just assume it's a matter of taste for the MX 985 then. That level of neutrality is why I stopped my headphone upgrading at the HD700, worrying the 800 would be too polite to my ears.


 

 Yeah, it might be a matter of taste. I do not think that MX985 (or MX980/OMX980) could ever come in the no 1 spot for me. Perhaps before Blox TM7 were released in 2012 but I bought my Sennheisers after TM7. TM7 is similar to MX985 but more lush sounding and with better bass.
 And I sort of agree with @vapman that MX985 (MX980/OMX980) is a bit boring. To my ears it adds little to the music and you hear more of the source than the earbuds. So a good source might be necessary.

 Personally I like that neutrality. But I do enjoy more "colored"  and fun sounding earbuds more. I suppose it depends on the mood.

 Today I was going to bring my OMX980 and Red De'mun to work and compare them but by mistake I took Diomnes instead of Red De'mun. The case I use for Diomnes now is the one I used for Red De'mun before (the original Red De'mun case is now used for CAX black). Will have to give it another try tomorrow and bring the correct buds...


----------



## Saoshyant

gideon lim said:


> Nice to meet you all from Indonesia, i would like to join any discussion or conversation here, so i braced myself to shown up now . sorry if my grammar a bit broken :V.
> 
> 
> 
> .




Glad to have you here, and I see you brought your bomb!


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

townyj said:


> Just got my ABnormal Labs Dietris White
> 
> Definitely a thick sounding earbud, quite bassy and a rather large soundstage. Has been mentioned by a few others. Playing slower music, Chill, hip hop etc is does pretty darn well.


 
  
  
 When you get a chance could you compare the Dietris to B320? & Others like Red De'num? and How would you rate the Dietris among your collection? Does it makes your Top 5 personal picks?


----------



## Frederick Wang

Yincrow X6 is a wonderful budget earbud, it's not for symphonies though, but for pop music a great choice. Very good clarity, but not as aggressive as PT15 can be to some people. I will keep it for sports use.


----------



## fairx

gobin said:


> So I got my first ever Monk+ for about a week now, and I have to say, I'm simply blown away by its openness and airiness, while successfully capture most of the subtle details in any given songs.
> It's indeed, best $5 I've spent in a while. For casual bed time listening, these things is just perfect for me.
> 
> Now that I've been hooked into the whole earbuds stuff, I need some consultants' oppinions on which of the below pairs should I pick up:
> ...




I highly recommend the monk + ex pack if you haven't already got one. You can try different combination and play with your other earbud in the future. My favorite right now is thick donut covering half of the front shell. Excellent for ty 320ohm. 

I own RX-1 but rarely use is anymore. But everytime I test it I still marvel at the mids. Not much to offer beyond that. Even qian39 can cover so much of RX-1 qualities with better overall presentation.


----------



## golov17

frederick wang said:


> Yincrow X6 is a wonderful budget earbud, it's not for symphonies though, but for pop music a great choice. Very good clarity, but not as aggressive as PT15 can be to some people. I will keep it for sports use.


 http://mt.sohu.com/it/d20170108/123715005_540274.shtml


----------



## Willber

gobin said:


> So I got my first ever Monk+ for about a week now, and I have to say, I'm simply blown away by its openness and airiness, while successfully capture most of the subtle details in any given songs.
> It's indeed, best $5 I've spent in a while. For casual bed time listening, these things is just perfect for me.
> 
> Now that I've been hooked into the whole earbuds stuff, I need some consultants' oppinions on which of the below pairs should I pick up:
> ...


 

 Welcome to the forum.
  
 I agree with the above comments. I have about 10 different earbuds all under $25 (most about $5) and the RX-1 is my least favourite. I recommend looking at this thread which has many superior (IMO) alternatives to the RX-1 and Monk+ for very little money:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds
  
 I suggest you try a few of them to identify your preferred sound characteristics and then move up from there if you wish to spend more money. There are plenty of experts there and here to help give advice.
  
 BTW, I too use mostly Youtube on my laptop but I stick mainly to 480kps or higher as I find the quality significantly better.


----------



## ctaxxxx

gobin said:


> So I got my first ever Monk+ for about a week now, and I have to say, I'm simply blown away by its openness and airiness, while successfully capture most of the subtle details in any given songs.
> It's indeed, best $5 I've spent in a while. For casual bed time listening, these things is just perfect for me.
> 
> Now that I've been hooked into the whole earbuds stuff, I need some consultants' oppinions on which of the below pairs should I pick up:
> ...


 
  
 I have the Monk+ Expresso, since I gave my free Monk+ to someone else, and found they were more balanced across the spectrum. Still the same sound signature. This is going from memory though, so I could be wrong. I would only recommend it if you're a collector who tries to own all the variations of Monk+.


----------



## flamesofarctica

gobin said:


> So I got my first ever Monk+ for about a week now, and I have to say, I'm simply blown away by its openness and airiness, while successfully capture most of the subtle details in any given songs.
> It's indeed, best $5 I've spent in a while. For casual bed time listening, these things is just perfect for me.
> 
> Now that I've been hooked into the whole earbuds stuff, I need some consultants' oppinions on which of the below pairs should I pick up:
> ...




Personally I'd say if you really like the Monk+ then the next step up would be the VE Asura 2. I can't think of that much between the two price wise which is a significant step up. Maybe the TY HP320, however as that would benefit from being amped, maybe not the best choice.

Having said that I don't have the K's 300 yet (again maybe it would need amping I can't confirm), and I've never been tempted by the Auglamour (the name for a starter... plus after the fit of the **** PT15 and the Tomahawk, I've given up on metal earbuds, I like the MX500 type shell best)

Alternatively you could try all the other budget earbuds, it's good fun and there are some nice ones out there. However personally I loved the Monk+ from first listen and haven't yet found any of the other budget earbuds bettered it - it's still my go-to in the sub-£30 price range. You might find different though based on your music tastes and sound preferences.

The Monk+ Espresso is nice and I'm glad I got it, to me it was worth the money. Yes as expected it's the same sound as the Monk+, so it depends how much you value the metal connectors, nice looks and case.

----
As an aside, Yinman 64 has arrived today. Not seen many impressions of them. Dont want to speak too soon, but on initial listen, they're not blowing me away. Quite upfront, in your face sounding if you like that sort of thing. Hmmm, will see if I warm to them, but currently I'm not finding them that pleasant. Oddly as someone to whom bass isn't a priority, of the 3 budget earbuds I bought last my only definite recommendation so far is the bassiest - and the cheapest - the RY4S. The K's 64 was just ok, and now this...


----------



## gobin

Thank guys, I think I will go full budget for now. My next purchase would be Phillips she3800, sony e808 and Quian 39. And if my ears couldn't distinguish the sound signature of those when comparing to Monk+. It will be either my ears are s*** or my sources are s***; And that I dont need to jump to the next price braket cuz I wouldn't be able to appriciate the sound it offers.

I recently jump from sub $20 to sub $120 IEMs, and to be completely honest, I have hard time pinpointing the improvements. so yeah, my source is crap.


----------



## SuperMAG

Yep monk+ > qiuan39 = 808+


----------



## Willber

supermag said:


> Yep monk+ > qiuan39 = 808+


 

 I disagree (E808+ > Qian39 > Monk+) but everyone has different preferences.
  
@gobin, did you see the link I posted to the best budget earbuds thread?


----------



## gobin

willber said:


> I disagree (E808+ > Qian39 > Monk+) but everyone has different preferences.
> 
> @gobin, did you see the link I posted to the best budget earbuds thread?


 
 Yes I did, that's why I concluded that I need to get a pair of Phillips she3800, sony e808 and Quian 39.
  
 So I figured I would order the Phillips she3800 on fasttech dot com (Can someone confirm if this is the right place to get these, price seems doubtful, $3.21?)
  
 Not so sure where to get the sony E808+, is it on Ali? because it seems like there's fake version of it on Ali (someone mentioned that in the _best budget earbuds thread_.


----------



## ClieOS

gobin said:


> Yes I did, that's why I concluded that I need to get a pair of Phillips she3800, sony e808 and Quian 39.
> 
> So I figured I would order the Phillips she3800 on fasttech dot com (Can someone confirm if this is the right place to get these, price seems doubtful, $3.21?)
> 
> Not so sure where to get the sony E808+, is it on Ali? because it seems like there's fake version of it on Ali (someone mentioned that in the _best budget earbuds thread_.


 
  
 SHE3800 and E808+ are actually both fake models made-up by some Chinese earbuds maker. Neither Philips nor Sony ever released those models (*well, technically Phillips does have a SHE3800, but it is an IEM and not an earbud).


----------



## gobin

clieos said:


> SHE3800 and E808+ are actually both fake models made-up by some Chinese earbuds maker. Neither Philips nor Sony ever released those models (*well, technically Phillips does have a SHE3800, but it is an IEM and not an earbud).



lol, no wonder they have that price tag. But should I give them a try?


----------



## notamethlab

gobin said:


> lol, no wonder they have that price tag. But should I give them a try?


 Yep. Two of the best earbuds under $10.


----------



## golov17

gobin said:


> lol, no wonder they have that price tag. But should I give them a try?


yes, do it


----------



## purplesun

gobin said:


> lol, no wonder they have that price tag. But should I give them a try?


 
 Of course! And don't let people borrow these earbuds AND find out the price. They won't return it to you after that.


----------



## gobin

golov17 said:


> yes, do it







notamethlab said:


> Yep. Two of the best earbuds under $10.



My wallet hates you guys =.=

Anyway, I can't find the e808+ on Aliexpress, anyone have link to it?


----------



## golov17

gobin said:


> My wallet hates you guys =.=
> 
> Anyway, I can't find the e808+ on Aliexpress, anyone have link to it?


sold out on AE


----------



## gobin

golov17 said:


> sold out on AE



well that's just great. Is there any other way I can get one? or it has completely extincted.


----------



## golov17

gobin said:


> well that's just great. Is there any other way I can get one? or it has completely extincted.


 http://m.intl.taobao.com/search/search.html?q=mdr%20808%2B


----------



## gobin

golov17 said:


> http://m.intl.taobao.com/search/search.html?q=mdr%20808%2B



I have absolutely no clue what to do with that page, thanks anyway.


----------



## golov17

gobin said:


> I have absolutely no clue what to do with that page, thanks anyway.


 http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/537129274626.html


----------



## ATi7500

gobin said:


> lol, no wonder they have that price tag. But should I give them a try?


 
 IMHO the SHE3800 is better than both Qian39 and Monk+. Maybe Monk+ is slightly clearer, but SHE3800 has such a full bodied sound that seems impossible not to love.
 Qian25 is also above those two.


----------



## weedophile

Yep the Monk+ being better than the Qian39 and SHE3800 is subjective, and i also rank the Monk+ below alot of other budget buds i own, purely due to music preference. So whether if it fit ur taste is really by giving it a try, they wont break the bank either lol.

gobin
Fasttech is probably legit as i have gotten from them too. Sadly the E808+ is sold out as of late and dunno if they will resurface on AE again.


----------



## Saoshyant

I'd probably go for the Qian39 with the lack of availabilty of the E808+. I personally prefer the "Sony" but it's not a drastic differwnce between the two.


----------



## Willber

gobin said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > sold out on AE
> ...


 
 I have been in contact with the AE seller. He has stock but the connection to the product page has been lost for some reason. I have asked him to let me know when it is fixed. Will report back when I have news.


----------



## skylartd

Buy a e808+ and recable it, you'll be blown away by its sound, as good as VE Monk+ Candy(still I'm prefer Candy a little bit more)


----------



## Saoshyant

Looking at the tracking on the 4 budget earbuds I'm awaiting, I can't help but find it funny that it will apparently take less time for the earbud to get picked up in China, come to the US, and make it through customs and to USPS than it will take for them to send it from Chicago to Kansas City as they're predicting about a week before it gets to me.  I hope the tracking estimate is less than accurate and it gets here by Saturday as I'm curious to see if it's worth recommending both here and the budget earbud thread.  Hopefully the other 3 earbuds will make similar progress and arrive in the US soon, if not already.


----------



## Saoshyant

Alas, some silly person is trying to tell someone in the KZ thread that earbuds aren't capable of keeping up with IEMs in terms of detail.


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> Alas, some silly person is trying to tell someone in the KZ thread that earbuds aren't capable of keeping up with IEMs in terms of detail.


 Unfortunately, this is a common misconception in many forums ..


----------



## Saoshyant

@Griffith If you're not aware of this thread, I have a feeling you might want to as you obviously respect earbuds.  Not too many of us that do these days!


----------



## Frederick Wang

saoshyant said:


> Alas, some silly person is trying to tell someone in the KZ thread that earbuds aren't capable of keeping up with IEMs in terms of detail.


 
 Speaking of details... How's Campfred compared to Rose Mojito in terms of details/clarity? Thanks


----------



## Willber

willber said:


> I have been in contact with the AE seller. He has stock but the connection to the product page has been lost for some reason. I have asked him to let me know when it is fixed. Will report back when I have news.


 
  
 OK, here is the conversation:
 _Me: Hi, will you be getting more of the E808+?_
  
_AE: Hello, I have goods, You need E808+?_
  
_Me: I don't need any more right now (I have 3) - others on the head-fi forum do but the product link goes to a 404 page._
  
_AE: Oh, my connection has been deleted._
  
_Me: Please can you let me know when it is fixed? There are people wanting to buy. Thanks._
  
_AE: You can buy from the following link, and then leave a message in the order, "send E808+"_
_https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Original-WH-208-In-ear-Stereo-earphone-with-Mic-Remote-Control-For-Nokia-Lumia-1020-930/1909638_32772950026.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.haXpyd_
  
_Me: Thank you, I shall pass on the message. But I think it would be better to have the old direct link back so others can find it._
 So, will that work? There's only one way to find out - somebody needs to try it, but not me, I have enough for now! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 (I have used this store a number of times and they have always been reliable.)


----------



## Saoshyant

I haven't compared the two yet so don't want to give any misleading information.  I will get to that comparison soon!


----------



## Nachash

After almost 4 months I've finally received the K64...


----------



## fairx

saoshyant said:


> Alas, some silly person is trying to tell someone in the KZ thread that earbuds aren't capable of keeping up with IEMs in terms of detail.



Last night just as I rehear most of my earbud I pick up my old superlux evo and listen to the same select song. Sgs to o2 amp on high gain. 

Superlux offer great details compared to my other earbud, but it's not impressive kind of details. reminds me of monk+. The stage is huge of course, being semi open can. 

It made me think. What does details means? I use to say what i value most from earbud /iem /headphones are RESOLUTION and DEPTH. So far I still belive that if I had those two then everything else (bass, mids and high) will certainly fall into places. 

I use to own Kz ATE. it too offer great details but they're flat unimpressive details because there's no depth in it. 

Qian39 in comparison don't offer the same kind of details but instead very pronounce in its presentation. Everything suddenly fall into places. Although depth and dynamics are below my expectations but still it offers very unique listening experience. 

I don't really care if it's earbud, iem or headphones. As long as they offer resolution and depth I'm in. And earbud is hella lot cheaper to venture so in the future, when I fork out thousands to get my first ciem I already knew what kind of sound I really want.


----------



## Ira Delphic

nachash said:


> After almost 4 months I've finally received the K64...


 
  
 The incredibly long cord (silver version) is the only attribute of the K64 that makes it stand out from my other budget IEM's. Glad it made it there finally. Did they send it by clipper ship?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

ira delphic said:


> The incredibly long cord (silver version) is the only attribute of the K64 that makes it stand out from my other budget IEM's. Glad it made it there finally. Did they send it by clipper ship?


 
 That's sad that it doesn't sound better than one of your other IEM's, it looks cool.


----------



## Jackpot77

Just discovered this thread while looking for some reviews on the 1More E1008. I couldn't find anything so any ahead and bought one which arrived today - very impressed with the sound (not a completely new convert to earbuds as I own two pairs of Monk+, but these seema nice step up. Anyone here heard them in comparison to the more "popular" big hitters like the Zen / Zen 2.0 /Rose Mojito / Shozy earbuds? Just wondering where these E1008s sit on the quality scale, as I might have to give some others a try if they are significantly better than this!


----------



## ctaxxxx

frederick wang said:


> Speaking of details... How's Campfred compared to Rose Mojito in terms of details/clarity? Thanks


 
  
 CampFred's details are there, but are more in line with the rest of frequencies, while Mojito's detailing are more upfront and overpower the other frequencies. The clarity is debatable, due to Mojito's brighter sound signature and CampFred's more relaxed signature, so it comes down to personal preference in my opinion.


----------



## Frederick Wang

ctaxxxx said:


> CampFred's details are there, but are more in line with the rest of frequencies, while Mojito's detailing are more upfront and overpower the other frequencies. The clarity is debatable, due to Mojito's brighter sound signature and CampFred's more relaxed signature, so it comes down to personal preference in my opinion.


 
 I think I start to get a broad brush of what to expect of Campfred, thanks!


----------



## ctaxxxx

danneq said:


> Yeah, it might be a matter of taste. I do not think that MX985 (or MX980/OMX980) could ever come in the no 1 spot for me. Perhaps before Blox TM7 were released in 2012 but I bought my Sennheisers after TM7. TM7 is similar to MX985 but more lush sounding and with better bass.
> And I sort of agree with @vapman that MX985 (MX980/OMX980) is a bit boring. To my ears it adds little to the music and you hear more of the source than the earbuds. So a good source might be necessary.
> 
> Personally I like that neutrality. But I do enjoy more "colored"  and fun sounding earbuds more. I suppose it depends on the mood.


 
  
 I have always wanted to try the MX985 since I read about it here. I love neutrality with high resolution and clarity. I've always been a bit of an analytical person. My ER4XR iem are ruler flat (with a tiny bit more bass than the SR version) and sound so clear. Really brings out the most in certain songs (if you have the right source). 
  
 I just hate the "in your head" sound that most iem suffer from. I thought about getting ones that sound more spacious and with a larger soundstage, but the price jacks up considerably. Earbuds already do this at a lower cost. The only thing they lack is the seal to get a proper (sub)bass response without the risk of overpowering other frequencies.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

oh @ctaxxxx you're in GA aswell!? Which part if you don't mind me asking.


----------



## silverfishla

ctaxxxx said:


> CampFred's details are there, but are more in line with the rest of frequencies, while Mojito's detailing are more upfront and overpower the other frequencies. The clarity is debatable, due to Mojito's brighter sound signature and CampFred's more relaxed signature, so it comes down to personal preference in my opinion.


 

 If you want to try this with the Mojito, I've found that this is the perfect combo for me.  From Monk ex pack...rubber ring (guides cut off), thin foam, then a donut foam over that.  The Mojito's circumference is a little smaller than Monks (which fit me perfectly with 2 thin foams).  I've found that the rubber ring (which also helps the foams not slide around on the Mojitos thin edge) and donut help build up the outer width to create a better "seal".  Makes the Mojito less trebly without sacrificing detail, makes the bass boom and just sounds huge and all around awesome.  I didn't like the Mojito until I came up with this, now it truly is amazing.  I've tried this combo with other earbuds, but it doesn't work because it muddies their sound.  On Mojito, it's magic to my ears with no loss of detail.


----------



## Tonx

saoshyant said:


> Alas, some silly person is trying to tell someone in the KZ thread that earbuds aren't capable of keeping up with IEMs in terms of detail.


 

 ​Well,IMHO, it may be  technically true concerning budget hybrids like **** etc. due to ba, if it means you can hear more details. But in fact sometimes it is better NOT to hear these details - piercing,grainy treble, artificial midbass, strange vocals... most of chinese iems trying to pretend to be audiophile,  you know "5-40khz, Hi-Res" and such. Detail and resolution in first place. Earbuds just trying to increase impedance and to kill monk
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




​, but music is in first place.
  
 Of course actually  it's all about preferences and fit.


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> Alas, some silly person is trying to tell someone in the KZ thread that earbuds aren't capable of keeping up with IEMs in terms of detail.


 
 Meh, there are a lot of jokers on Head Fi. A lot of them are happy to share opinions on stuff they've never heard. You even got dudes who own TOTL headphones, have never listened to them once, and just talk about how they're #1 in every way..... I'm like, cool pandora's box you have, but why bother trying to attach fact to an experience one's never had 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Anyone who's spent any time in this thread and on Head Fi in general knows earbuds couldn't be beat for value in 2015 and 2016. 2017 is no different


----------



## Townyj

vapman said:


> Meh, there are a lot of jokers on Head Fi. A lot of them are happy to share opinions on stuff they've never heard. You even got dudes who own TOTL headphones, have never listened to them once, and just talk about how they're #1 in every way..... I'm like, cool pandora's box you have, but why bother trying to attach fact to an experience one's never had
> 
> Anyone who's spent any time in this thread and on Head Fi in general knows earbuds couldn't be beat for value in 2015 and 2016. 2017 is no different




Some of the best music ive heard is through earbuds recently. Go figure eh.. fanboys in every area. Haha. Not bagging out headphones or iems. I enjoy them all, but earbuds are just so practical.


----------



## vapman

How many others here have Blox B320? I'm thinkin that might be more to my tastes than the Ucotech 903 was.
  
  My ucotech is cool but it can't take much amping, let alone bass EQ if i amp. Would be more appreciated by a non amper.


----------



## alvinlim2010

townyj said:


> Some of the best music ive heard is through earbuds recently. Go figure eh.. fanboys in every area. Haha. Not bagging out headphones or iems. I enjoy them all, but earbuds are just so practical.



 


I definitely agree that earbuds have their appeal - I just plugged my old Yuin Pk2 into my Opus with donut foam, and vola! The music definitely comes alive and I can feel the layering of music very nicely.


----------



## weedophile

The only thing abt earbud is their isolation. Being in a country where cars cost ard 70grand (USD) i can only turn to using public transport to work. And i listen to music almost 90% of the time i'm on commute and the 10% is when i am with someone else.

No matter how good the fit is, when i step out of my office building i will shake my head and tell myself i have to switch to IEM (office near town, and in SG there's no quiet road until after 9pm lol)


----------



## chinmie

townyj said:


> Some of the best music ive heard is through earbuds recently. Go figure eh.. fanboys in every area. Haha. Not bagging out headphones or iems. I enjoy them all, but earbuds are just so practical.




same here, i rarely use my full headphone anymore.. only using them for recording. even at that, i might hunt for a really flat analytical earbuds (if the do exist, please inform me) to retire headphone. i also found that iem is less comfortable for me, though sometimes i use them to watch movies and I don't want to be bothered 



weedophile said:


> The only thing abt earbud is their isolation.
> No matter how good the fit is, when i step out of my office building i will shake my head and tell myself i have to switch to IEM (office near town, and in SG there's no quiet road until after 9pm lol)




to me, their lack of isolation kinda what makes them work for me,because i can listen to music without blocking outside noise and i can still talk to people without taking them off. using iem while walking just feels too claustrophobic and unsafe for me personally. 
some buds that i have (edifier h185 and mrice e100) are great for this kind of situation


----------



## Joy Boy

saoshyant said:


> Alas, some silly person is trying to tell someone in the KZ thread that earbuds aren't capable of keeping up with IEMs in terms of detail.



You will hear an argument like this in every audio related forum.
And from what i've experienced through the years, earbud has best price to performance ratio. The quality of the sound usually exceed its price.
IEM has better in isolation. Headphone in monitoring level. But you can easily get the sound that you want in very lower price from earbud.


----------



## vapman

chinmie said:


> same here, i rarely use my full headphone anymore.. only using them for recording. even at that, i might hunt for a really flat analytical earbuds (if the do exist, please inform me) to retire headphone. i also found that iem is less comfortable for me, though sometimes i use them to watch movies and I don't want to be bothered
> *to me, their lack of isolation kinda what makes them work for me,because i can listen to music without blocking outside noise and i can still talk to people without taking them off*. *using iem while walking just feels too claustrophobic and unsafe for me personally.*
> some buds that i have (edifier h185 and mrice e100) are great for this kind of situation


 
 i liked iems more than any full size headphone for its focused sound in your ear, but i have all of the same opinions as you here.
 walking or eating with iem in? no way.
 but i put in some earbuds (today was Cygnus) and went and did a bunch of errands. also was able to talk to people and no problem.


----------



## chinmie

joy boy said:


> You will hear an argument like this in every audio related forum.
> And from what i've experienced through the years, earbud has best price to performance ratio. The quality of the sound usually exceed its price.
> IEM has better in isolation. Headphone in monitoring level. But you can easily get the sound that you want in very lower price from earbud.




agreed. one is not ultimately better than the others, each with their own strengths and purposes, though i found my sweet spot in earbuds


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> How many others here have Blox B320? I'm thinkin that might be more to my tastes than the Ucotech 903 was.
> 
> My ucotech is cool but it can't take much amping, let alone bass EQ if i amp. Would be more appreciated by a non amper.


 You already have Benjie earbuds? If not yet, then you should get them!


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> You already have Benjie earbuds? If not yet, then you should get them!


 
 Can they be bought separate from the Benjie players?
 I was not interested in Benjie DAPs but want to try the earbuds.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Can they be bought separate from the Benjie players?
> I was not interested in Benjie DAPs but want to try the earbuds.


22 usd norm price for them (with dap), but 
if I had to pay for them of usd 22 (without dap), I would be happy, believe


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> 22 usd norm price for them,
> if I had to pay for them of usd 22, I would be happy, believe


 
 where to get em??
 i guess if the player they come with is not much more...


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> where to get em??
> i guess if the player they come with is not much more...


AE search 
BENJIE C3 Mini MP3 Professional 8GB Chutty Running 3D HIFI MP3 Player Hgih Quality Sports MP3 with Voice Recorder MP3 Player
 http://s.aliexpress.com/neyaMVfy 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## alvinlim2010

weedophile said:


> The only thing abt earbud is their isolation. Being in a country where cars cost ard 70grand (USD) i can only turn to using public transport to work. And i listen to music almost 90% of the time i'm on commute and the 10% is when i am with someone else.
> 
> 
> 
> No matter how good the fit is, when i step out of my office building i will shake my head and tell myself i have to switch to IEM (office near town, and in SG there's no quiet road until after 9pm lol)



 


Haha hello fellow Singaporean! I share your pain, I can only fully appreciate my earbuds back in my room, or perhaps someone a bit more quiet like in a library (but opps on the sound leaks).


----------



## weedophile

Earbuds for me is office 100% but on commute i have to fall back on IEMs. And definitely agree the soundstage cannot be reproduced by IEM that cost 10 or even 20 times the price of a budget earbud.



chinmie said:


> same here, i rarely use my full headphone anymore.. only using them for recording. even at that, i might hunt for a really flat analytical earbuds (if the do exist, please inform me) to retire headphone. i also found that iem is less comfortable for me, though sometimes i use them to watch movies and I don't want to be bothered
> to me, their lack of isolation kinda what makes them work for me,because i can listen to music without blocking outside noise and i can still talk to people without taking them off. using iem while walking just feels too claustrophobic and unsafe for me personally.
> some buds that i have (edifier h185 and mrice e100) are great for this kind of situation







vapman said:


> i liked iems more than any full size headphone for its focused sound in your ear, but i have all of the same opinions as you here.
> walking or eating with iem in? no way.
> but i put in some earbuds (today was Cygnus) and went and did a bunch of errands. also was able to talk to people and no problem.


----------



## 1TrickPony

alvinlim2010 said:


> weedophile said:
> 
> 
> > The only thing abt earbud is their isolation. Being in a country where cars cost ard 70grand (USD) i can only turn to using public transport to work. And i listen to music almost 90% of the time i'm on commute and the 10% is when i am with someone else.
> ...




Bro, I'm with you on this one. it becomes a pain and a drag (leakage and isolation). Finally got around getting a Zen 2 to go along with my Shanling M3. I still getting more isolation with my LZ-A4 while having not sacrifice soundstage. 

The current earbud generation is pretty exciting, if there were enough tours to go about, we can definitely see more happening for this untapped community.


----------



## tinkertailor

Hey guys, I just tried ear hooks (see image for the style i am refering to)for the first time...they are great! I think they are a perfect solution for the gym (which is what I will be using them for) or if you have problems with the earbud falling out. I was presently surprised!


----------



## 1TrickPony

tinkertailor said:


> Hey guys, I just tried ear hooks (see image for the style i am refering to)for the first time...they are great! I think they are a perfect solution for the gym (which is what I will be using them for) or if you have problems with the earbud falling out. I was presently surprised!




these the VE hooks by any chance? I'm looking to get them asap since I plan on blasting my Zens with the right fitting. Any recommendations for quick service?


----------



## chinmie

i can't seem to figure out how to use those earhooks...the last time i tried the it can't even create a seal...fiddling with it resulted in me twisting my left monk's cap...killing it instantly


----------



## 1TrickPony

chinmie said:


> i can't seem to figure out how to use those earhooks...the last time i tried the it can't even create a seal...fiddling with it resulted in me twisting my left monk's cap...killing it instantly




Hm. Not sure if Earbuds is the way to go if you warrant isolation. They nonetheless provide an immersive listen when I'm alone. I'm never alone when good gear and music keeps me company at night.


----------



## headjelly

vapman said:


> How many others here have Blox B320? I'm thinkin that might be more to my tastes than the Ucotech 903 was.
> 
> My ucotech is cool but it can't take much amping, let alone bass EQ if i amp. Would be more appreciated by a non amper.


 
  
 I do and they are my favourite earbud, I like them better than ps100-600 and Yinman 500, even though ps100-600 is technically better. As Golov mentioned, B320's sound signature is unusual, but there is something about them which makes me happy every time I hear them. Someone described them as "euphoric" and I agree.


----------



## vapman

headjelly said:


> I do and they are my favourite earbud, I like them better than ps100-600 and Yuin 500, even though ps100-600 is technically better. As Golov mentioned, B320's sound signature is unusual, but there is something about them which makes me happy every time I hear them. Someone described them as "euphoric" and I agree.


 
 Argh, I knew I should have bought it instead of the Ucotech! Also, do you mean Yinman 500? If it's better than Yinman 500 to you, that's really something.
  
 Man. Gotta get rid of some of these buds to make room for new ones. B320 ordered anyway, I'll only be more angry at myself if I never get em 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Not that the Ucotech are bad - they're very unique too - but too bright for me without EQ, and they don't like amps (I like amps.)


----------



## tinkertailor

chinmie said:


> i can't seem to figure out how to use those earhooks...the last time i tried the it can't even create a seal...fiddling with it resulted in me twisting my left monk's cap...killing it instantly


 
 I used them on an mx500-housing style bud and worked great...i wouldnt say a super tight seal, but held it firmly in place. there are photos online of how to use them


----------



## Nachash

earbuds means comfort during the summer, I can't even touch a full headphone when it's hot


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Just a heads up, for those of you who are experiencing fit issues with the rose Mojito, I found the solution from thier Teiba.

 Apparently one Mojito user had the ingenious idea of using earhooks meant for bluetooth hands-free receivers on thier Mojito. The diameter is 1cm if I am not mistaken.

 Mine with hooks attached.

 Alternatively, you can also get these rubber rings (as recommended by ClieOS when I told him I was buying the Mojito) with monk+ thin foams.

 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z0k.6846577.1997989141.5.Ca5BjS&id=527963922942&_u=
  
 A for tight fit, B for loose fit.


----------



## chinmie

1trickpony said:


> Hm. Not sure if Earbuds is the way to go if you warrant isolation. They nonetheless provide an immersive listen when I'm alone. I'm never alone when good gear and music keeps me company at night.




i am aware of that, but with the earhooks the earbuds will sit farther from the way they usually do on my ear without it


----------



## golov17

chinmie said:


> i am aware of that, but with the earhooks the earbuds will sit farther from the way they usually do on my ear without it


like this?


----------



## kartik7405

golov17 said:


> like this?


 
 Are they Cogoo A9 ??


----------



## golov17

kartik7405 said:


> Are they Cogoo A9 ??


FA981


----------



## chinmie

golov17 said:


> like this?




Interesting,  but is there solution like that which can be used with any earbuds?


----------



## weedophile

alvinlim2010 said:


> weedophile said:
> 
> 
> > The only thing abt earbud is their isolation. Being in a country where cars cost ard 70grand (USD) i can only turn to using public transport to work. And i listen to music almost 90% of the time i'm on commute and the 10% is when i am with someone else.
> ...


 
  
 Yea bro totally! But the performance is really sick when there isnt much noise.
  


silverfishla said:


> If you want to try this with the Mojito, I've found that this is the perfect combo for me.  From Monk ex pack...rubber ring (guides cut off), thin foam, then a donut foam over that.  The Mojito's circumference is a little smaller than Monks (which fit me perfectly with 2 thin foams).  I've found that the rubber ring (which also helps the foams not slide around on the Mojitos thin edge) and donut help build up the outer width to create a better "seal".  Makes the Mojito less trebly without sacrificing detail, makes the bass boom and just sounds huge and all around awesome.  I didn't like the Mojito until I came up with this, now it truly is amazing.  I've tried this combo with other earbuds, but it doesn't work because it muddies their sound.  On Mojito, it's magic to my ears with no loss of detail.


 
  
 Thanks bro, i have been letting my Qian39 slp for the longest time since i have bought them as they are rather small. Used the donut foam over the qian, rubber ring and dont foam again. Now the fit is comfy with a tight seal!


----------



## Ira Delphic

golov17 said:


> chinmie said:
> 
> 
> > i am aware of that, but with the earhooks the earbuds will sit farther from the way they usually do on my ear without it
> ...


 
  
 Interesting but what I love about earbuds are the simple design and ultimate storability.
 I think storability is a real word, could be wrong


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

My Yinman 150ohm arrived today. Build quality and comfort is fantastic but the sound is really quite awful. Vocals are far too distant and have a bit of a harsh edge to them. I would for sure recommend the faareal 64ohm v2 over the Yinman 150ohm.


----------



## Nachash

ugh, the k64 (black) sound terrible.
  
 Not worth 4 months of waiting


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

nachash said:


> ugh, the k64 (black) sound terrible.
> 
> Not worth 4 months of waiting


 
 My silver pair was also pretty horrid. Very metallic sounding. Nice cable though.


----------



## Nachash

I'm also waiting for
 Boarseman K25S

 Philips SHE3010
 REMAX RM-303 (black)

 Sony MDR-E808+
  
 so I'm wondering how those are, and then I should stop with cheap earbuds


----------



## Ira Delphic

nachash said:


> ugh, the k64 (black) sound terrible.
> 
> Not worth 4 months of waiting


 
  
 The K64 is good for lo-fi music or spoken word, audiobooks.


----------



## rkw

jackpot77 said:


> Just discovered this thread while looking for some reviews on the 1More E1008. I couldn't find anything so any ahead and bought one which arrived today - very impressed with the sound (not a completely new convert to earbuds as I own two pairs of Monk+, but these seema nice step up. Anyone here heard them in comparison to the more "popular" big hitters like the Zen / Zen 2.0 /Rose Mojito / Shozy earbuds? Just wondering where these E1008s sit on the quality scale, as I might have to give some others a try if they are significantly better than this!


 
  
 E1008 is one of my favorites. Good detail, extended highs and lows, and neutral response. I also have Zen 2, and the reverb produced by its earpiece shell colors the sound too much for classical music. Zen 2 (and Monk+) are in the mode of "fun" rather than accurate sound. My best earbud currently is Yinman 600, which is outstanding and audiophile level, but requires a good amplifier.


----------



## Nachash

ira delphic said:


> The K64 is good for lo-fi music or spoken word, audiobooks.


 

 Even a cheap .50cent earbud is good for that


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

zombiewinegum said:


> My Yinman 150ohm arrived today. Build quality and comfort is fantastic but the sound is really quite awful. Vocals are far too distant and have a bit of a harsh edge to them. I would for sure recommend the faareal 64ohm v2 over the Yinman 150ohm.


 
 I'm sorry to hear that. That's a $30 bud you bought, that you say a $5 bud is better.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

My package from Indonesia has been sitting in *ISC SAN FRANCISCO (USPS)  *for a week now, Does it usually take this long?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

In honor of Nokia bringing back a new 3310, the first phone I ever sent a text with:
  
 Edit, mine is actually the Nokia 3360:
  

  
 --


----------



## ctaxxxx

midnightempest said:


> My package from Indonesia has been sitting in *ISC SAN FRANCISCO (USPS)  *for a week now, Does it usually take this long?


 
  
 I had a package sit in China's main facility for over a week before it finally shipped to the US. International shipping can be a pain.
  
  


rkw said:


> E1008 is one of my favorites. Good detail, extended highs and lows, and neutral response. I also have Zen 2, and the reverb produced by its earpiece shell colors the sound too much for classical music. Zen 2 (and Monk+) are in the mode of "fun" rather than accurate sound. My best earbud currently is Yinman 600, which is outstanding and audiophile level, but requires a good amplifier.


 
  
 How are the Yinman 600? I was really curious about them based on their looks alone (I'm a sucker for good looks). Can you compare them to other high end earbuds or describe their sound signature? I was interested in getting these or the PureSounds 600 next.


----------



## notamethlab

laughmoredaily said:


> I'm sorry to hear that. That's a $150 bud you bought, that you say a $5 bud is better.


 
Yinman 150ohm is $30


----------



## rkw

ctaxxxx said:


> How are the Yinman 600? I was really curious about them based on their looks alone (I'm a sucker for good looks). Can you compare them to other high end earbuds or describe their sound signature? I was interested in getting these or the PureSounds 600 next.


 
  
 I love the Yinman 600 and posted about it here. It has become my main headphone at home with desktop amplifier. The best sound I have is with my HD650, but I use it only occasionally because I usually don't want to wear this big thing on my head.


----------



## tinkertailor

ira delphic said:


> The K64 is good for lo-fi music or spoken word, audiobooks.


 
 i'm surprised to hear that, I have two pairs now and it beats everything else i have, i mean its CLEARLY better than a monk plus, ty 32, and everything except sound sig of qian39, i place it above **** pt15. I would be curious to know what your frame of reference is. 


nachash said:


> Even a cheap .50cent earbud is good for that


 
 and comparing it to a 50 cent earbud is definitly not my experience 
  
 though i do understand there is a lot of subjectivity to everything.


----------



## vapman

midnightempest said:


> My package from Indonesia has been sitting in [COLOR=202020]*ISC SAN FRANCISCO (USPS)  *[/COLOR]for a week now, Does it usually take this long?




I've had stuff sit in SFO ISC up to a whole month. Sucks but not much you can do.

Laughmoredaily the yinman 150 is like $25 or $30 at the most.


----------



## mochill

diy OCC earphone cable 10pcs
 http://s.aliexpress.com/fqU3eaqA 
(from AliExpress Android)

Found some good cables for diy


----------



## DBaldock9

mochill said:


> diy OCC earphone cable 10pcs
> http://s.aliexpress.com/fqU3eaqA
> (from AliExpress Android)
> 
> Found some good cables for diy


 

 Nice looking wires.  Too bad they don't offer a 2.5mm TRRS plug option.


----------



## mochill

Probably can if you ask


----------



## vapman

6.80  a piece...... they better be REALLY good.


----------



## Ira Delphic

mochill said:


> diy OCC earphone cable 10pcs
> http://s.aliexpress.com/fqU3eaqA
> (from AliExpress Android)
> 
> Found some good cables for diy


 
  
 Under "Item Specifics" - 
  
*Application:Microphone *
  
  
  
 Probably just an error.


----------



## vapman

ira delphic said:


> Under "Item Specifics" -
> 
> *Application:Microphone *
> 
> ...


 
 2 signal + 1 ground audio wire is often referred to as microphone cable


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Does anyone here have any K's 64ohm headphones?
  
 I bought the one with the silver wire from the banned seller's secret store (didn't know this until delivery) and there is no "K's" logo on the earbuds themselves (like people's photos and no K's sticker on wire), like the 300 ohm's in this link: 
  
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-K-s-Earphone-K300-300ohm-High-Impedance-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud-300ohms-Earbud-Flat-Head/32783590564.html?spm=2114.13010308.0.0.ioSHUr
  
 Did they send me a Oem/Counterfeit copy?


----------



## vapman

laughmoredaily said:


> Does anyone here have any K's 64ohm headphones? I bought the one with the silver wire from the banned seller's secret store (didn't know this until delivery) and there is no "K's" logo on the earbuds themselves, like the 300 ohm's in this link: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-K-s-Earphone-K300-300ohm-High-Impedance-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud-300ohms-Earbud-Flat-Head/32783590564.html?spm=2114.13010308.0.0.ioSHUr


 
 A bunch of us have bought it from diff sellers and none have any logo. Nothing to worry about! 
  
 I modded my K's 64 and sent it to @tinkertailor 
  
  
 Blox crew, I ordered my B320 yesterday, how long is shipping time usually?


----------



## chinmie

couldn't help myself and bought the edimun rhodium also . vapman you weren't kidding about the out of the head sound, it really does sound like a full headphone. i currently using it with no foam, only with rubber rings. this way the bass is tamed down a bit, bringing it closer to the red demun. 

overall i still prefer the demun for it's mid freq quality, but the edimun sure is exciting and energetic to listen to.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> A bunch of us have bought it from diff sellers and none have any logo. Nothing to worry about!
> 
> I modded my K's 64 and sent it to @tinkertailor
> 
> ...


11 days to Russia


----------



## notamethlab

Good news, after about a month of waiting the yinman 500 are finally in Chicago ISC. Should have them very soon, I'm eager to give them a listen after such a long wait!


----------



## WhiteNightCrow

With the same exact price and looks, stiff cable with good sound or non stiff cable with not really good sound?

Which one do you choose?
No other option.


----------



## DBaldock9

notamethlab said:


> Good news, after about a month of waiting the yinman 500 are finally in Chicago ISC. Should have them very soon, I'm eager to give them a listen after such a long wait!


 
 What will you be driving the 500Ω earbuds with?


----------



## tinkertailor

laughmoredaily said:


> Does anyone here have any K's 64ohm headphones?
> 
> 
> Did they send me a Oem/Counterfeit copy?


 
 i have one it has no logo on it. 
  
 If it is not sounding good, one guess is it might be wired incorrectly. I ordered a pair Fareal 64 ohms and thought they were absolutely garbage even though others report them being great and I quite like their 32 ohm bud. I did the test HERE and it turns out the wiring was off throwing off the polarity and absolutely the reason they sounded like garbage to me. Check your K 64ohm's there (the test is "Wiring") and see if that is the issue. You should be able to easily resoder it yourself if it is.


----------



## purplesun

tinkertailor said:


> absolutely garbage even though others report them being great and I quite like their 32 ohm bud. I did the test HERE and it turns out the wiring was off throwing off the polarity and absolutely the reason they sounded like garbage to me.


 
  
 These basic tests should be in every audio enthusiasts'  toolbox.
 I use this site for left/right channel & phase testing.
 http://www.richardfarrar.com/are-your-speakers-wired-correctly/


----------



## notamethlab

dbaldock9 said:


> What will you be driving the 500Ω earbuds with?



Primarily with Zishan DSD and Walnut V2.


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

laughmoredaily said:


> I'm sorry to hear that. That's a $30 bud you bought, that you say a $5 bud is better.


 
 Yeah. I might see if i can put a different driver in it though, since the housing and cable are so nice...


----------



## alvinlim2010

laughmoredaily said:


> Does anyone here have any K's 64ohm headphones?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


But how does the K64 sound? How it will compare against the FAAEL?


----------



## robervaul

MEMT X3
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/MEMT-X3-mini-Dynamic-Heavy-Bass-In-Ear-Earphone-with-MIC/1994049_32791729679.html


----------



## alvinlim2010

I saw these X3 too on Ali, do you have it? How do they sound?


----------



## robervaul

alvinlim2010 said:


> I saw these X3 too on Ali, do you have it? How do they sound?


 
 Not yet. I bought the X5 IEM.


----------



## Nachash

tinkertailor said:


> i'm surprised to hear that, I have two pairs now and it beats everything else i have, i mean its CLEARLY better than a monk plus, ty 32, and everything except sound sig of qian39, i place it above **** pt15. I would be curious to know what your frame of reference is.
> and comparing it to a 50 cent earbud is definitly not my experience
> 
> though i do understand there is a lot of subjectivity to everything.


 
 .50cent is a bit of an exaggeration ofc, by the way the PT15 is one of my favorites too


----------



## chinmie

anyone can share their impressions on the heavenly sound lines? preferably compared to the demun and edimun


----------



## Pictograms

Just got my Shozy Stardust last night. Listened to them for several hours on dog walks out of my phone.
So far i must say they sound very nice, good sound stage and very balanced signature. Right now i think its the most neutral headphone/earbud I have.


----------



## Saoshyant

most neutral?  thank god I haven't ordered it


----------



## JASru

saoshyant said:


> most neutral?  thank god I haven't ordered it


 
 Well, yeah. It feels like a grandpa of TP-16 imo. Much more mature sound, better in every way, but retains same style.


----------



## mochill

Stardust isn't neutral but natural


----------



## Saoshyant

jasru said:


> Well, yeah. It feels like a grandpa of TP-16 imo. Much more mature sound, better in every way, but retains same style.


 
 Hmm, refreshing my memory of the sound of the TP16 real quick, the progression of this and the Cygnus would be an interesting listen, especially if they go more with the bass of the TP16 and not Cygnus.  Might be worth trying one day, but I don't feel like I need it.


----------



## Pictograms

Im not very good st commenting on on neutral vs natural . Could be i play a few different instruments in different bands.
Natural all depends on where you sit.


----------



## ozkan

fairx said:


> already ordered my 3rd she3800. Broken driver, give to relatives and this time I'm gonna keep it to myself + recable for sure.




Recable them with Monk+ cable if you have and add a tiny bit of Blu-tac inside the shell. Your ears will appreciate the improvements.


----------



## GottMittens

So the FAAEAL 64ohm are just as good as the monk plus? I kind of like their present colour schemes a bit more.


----------



## vapman

gottmittens said:


> So the FAAEAL 64ohm are just as good as the monk plus? I kind of like their present colour schemes a bit more.


 
 Some would say it's as good, i  would say it's not even close.
  
 Hey long time no see @ozkan


----------



## Frederick Wang

Campfred is currently unavailable, so what's the best choice money can buy now? 
 My preferred keywords are: clarity, details, instrument separation, soundstage, great for symphonies... 
  
 I'm thinking b320, Rose Masya, Shozy stardust...


----------



## vapman

frederick wang said:


> Campfred is currently unavailable, so what's the best choice money can buy now?
> My preferred keywords are: clarity, details, instrument separation, soundstage, great for symphonies...
> 
> I'm thinking b320, Rose Masya, Shozy stardust


 
 I have two of those three in the mail! I can tag you when i get them.
  
 Do you have TY 650? I think it fits all those descriptors, but it sure needs some power to come alive.
  
 Anyway, I have some other DIY buds in the works, one is aiming to be like CampFred.


----------



## tinkertailor

gottmittens said:


> So the FAAEAL 64ohm are just as good as the monk plus? I kind of like their present colour schemes a bit more.


 
 I have the 32ohm and I prefer it to monk plus.


----------



## Frederick Wang

vapman said:


> I have two of those three in the mail! I can tag you when i get them.
> 
> Do you have TY 650? I think it fits all those descriptors, but it sure needs some power to come alive.
> 
> Anyway, I have some other DIY buds in the works, one is aiming to be like CampFred.


 
 Fantastic, it seems you always beat me to buds I set my eyes on, lol
 No TY650, from the literature I read about them, I'm not feeling the itch to own them. 
 And what's the name of the DIY buds that is aiming to be like CampFred?


----------



## Frederick Wang

ira delphic said:


> The K64 is good for lo-fi music or spoken word, audiobooks.


 
 I don't own K's 64, but bought K's 300 for the low price. Simply put, it discourages me from buying their higher priced buds, and the advertisement on their Taobao page makes me very skeptical of their promises


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

frederick wang said:


> I don't own K's 64, but bought K's 300 for the low price. Simply put, it discourages me from buying their higher priced buds, and the advertisement on their Taobao page makes me very skeptical of their promises


 
 I bought the K's 64 Ohm and although they are decent headphones, I'm not impressed either. My Philips SHE3800 sound better. Even with an amp the K's sound flat.


----------



## Ira Delphic

laughmoredaily said:


> frederick wang said:
> 
> 
> > I don't own K's 64, but bought K's 300 for the low price. Simply put, it discourages me from buying their higher priced buds, and the advertisement on their Taobao page makes me very skeptical of their promises
> ...


 
  
 They are definitely not that bad. But the SHE3800, Sony E808+, Monk+ , etc are better. But that long cord on the silver K's 64 comes in handy!
  
 A low-fi-ish song the K's 64 is well suited for - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkbpmFOuKrc


----------



## Frederick Wang

ira delphic said:


> They are definitely not that bad. But the SHE3800, Sony E808+, Monk+ , etc are better. But that long cord on the silver K's 64 comes in handy!
> 
> A low-fi-ish song the K's 64 is well suited for - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkbpmFOuKrc


 
 LOL, for the first 10 sec I thought you pulled a good satire


----------



## Ira Delphic

frederick wang said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > They are definitely not that bad. But the SHE3800, Sony E808+, Monk+ , etc are better. But that long cord on the silver K's 64 comes in handy!
> ...


 
  
 Huh, that would have been funny! I was trying to give the K's 64 a break.


----------



## tinkertailor

ira delphic said:


> A low-fi-ish song the K's 64 is well suited for - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkbpmFOuKrc


 
 That's my kind of music


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Does anyone know which buds I should buy next? I've bought and am waiting for:
  
 Benjie BJ-49
 Boarseman K25
 Colarad C01
 Edifier H180
 Fengru YQ-10049
 K's 64 Ohm
 Monk+
 MusicMaker TP16
 Philips SHE3010
 Philips SHE3800
 Qian 25
 Qian 39
 Remax RM-305M
 RY04
 RY4S
 **** PT15
 Sony MDR E808+
 TY Hi-Z 32 Ohm
  
 Thanks.
  
 PS: TY Hi-Z 150 ohm... or...


----------



## vapman

laughmoredaily said:


> Does anyone know which buds I should buy next? I've bought and am waiting for:
> 
> Boarseman K25
> Colarad C01
> ...


 
 Honest advice? Don't buy any more. Wait for all those to arrive and try to give them each enough time.
  
 When they're about to arrive, start listening to an album or three you like a lot and get to know them well on the gear you have. If you use that setup to work through the earbuds you'll have less variables and be able to tell differences in them more.
  
 and you are gonna find ones you hate at first end up surprising you later, and you have a crazy amount coming in, it will take a few days per bud to get to know them well!
  
 I'm gonna recommend you invest in an amp rather than more buds if you don't have one actually...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

vapman said:


> When they're about to arrive, start listening to an album or three you like a lot and get to know them well on the gear you have. If you use that setup to work through the earbuds you'll have less variables and be able to tell differences in them more.
> 
> and you are gonna find ones you hate at first end up surprising you later, and you have a crazy amount coming in, it will take a few days per bud to get to know them well!
> 
> I'm gonna recommend you invest in an amp rather than more buds if you don't have one actually...


 
 I'll be doing this after I finish burning a couple pairs of phones in... I have a Benjie S5 now and am waiting for a Walnut v2 and a Colorfly C3. Hopefully, I won't need another music player. I'm not a fan of the S5. 
  
 I also have a Topping NX1A amp, however, I worry that the power it provides will damage my hearing even more so than listening to hours of music at a normal setting.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Just noticed Rholupat has the new Blue Demun in stock on their website - http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone/blue-demun.html
  
 Here is what the description says:
  
 "It is custom earbud made by Indonesian Builder. This is the new version from previous sucessor Red Demun. The base earbud uses Edifier H180, it comes with customs mod in its cable, plug and damping. Does it give significant improvement ?, I will say YES. *It improves on separation, better detail and sparkling treble.*"
  
  
 Annnnd I made an order...


----------



## Townyj

ctaxxxx said:


> Just noticed Rholupat has the new Blue Demun in stock on their website - http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone/blue-demun.html
> 
> Here is what the description says:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah they have been on there the past few weeks now.  People have mentioned the blue has a thinner sound to it. The Red Demun has a seductive sound, would definitely be hard to better them.


----------



## ctaxxxx

townyj said:


> Yeah they have been on there the past few weeks now.  People have mentioned the blue has a thinner sound to it. The Red Demun has a seductive sound, would definitely be hard to better them.




If that's true, then it would probably sound very close to the Shozy Stardust. That's exactly how I would compare the Stardust with the Red Demun. Guess I'll find out. I love the look of the blue better than the red too.


----------



## vapman

laughmoredaily said:


> I'll be doing this after I finish burning a couple pairs of phones in... I have a Benjie S5 now and am waiting for a Walnut v2 and a Colorfly C3. Hopefully, I won't need another music player. I'm not a fan of the S5.
> 
> I also have a Topping NX1A amp, however, I worry that the power it provides will damage my hearing even more so than listening to hours of music at a normal setting.


 
 What i do is turn down the source volume. so if you are using a computer or DAP, turn down the volume so you can raise the amp's volume more. the amp will bring out more of the signal. When I listen with my amps I listen at the same volume i would without them, but all of them sound more alive and improved with an amp in the mix.
  
 Of course there's a time to not use an amp and listen directly out of something, and I just use my Walnut v2 without any other amp half the time. But the amp comment was more if your wallet is crying for attention and you wanted something new to have on the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 You have tons of good stuff coming in!


----------



## Townyj

ctaxxxx said:


> If that's true, then it would probably sound very close to the Shozy Stardust. That's exactly how I would compare the Stardust with the Red Demun. Guess I'll find out. I love the look of the blue better than the red too.


 
  
 Definitely interested in hearing some impressions on them against the Red. To bad i will never own either :/


----------



## ProLoL

How's the red demun vs CAX black?


----------



## knudsen

prolol said:


> How's the red demun vs CAX black?


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/826036/cypherus-audio-products-discussion-thread-campfred-earbuds-qfred-earbuds-and-cax-golden-reference/240#post_13108845


----------



## vapman

Just got an email my Blox will ship in 2 days and i will have tracking then. Fully awesome. Hope I like it more than I liked the BE5.
  
 I also listened to *Joe Bataan II* on some TY Hi-Z 32 I forgot were new in the box. Screw burning in, I'm gonna listen to these as they break in. After the Ucotech I can really appreciate these finally. Ironically the Ucotech 905 sounds like a far more refined Hi-Z 32. Maybe I should give them to a Hi-Z lover for xmas?


----------



## chinmie

ctaxxxx said:


> Just noticed Rholupat has the new Blue Demun in stock on their website - http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone/blue-demun.html
> 
> Here is what the description says:
> 
> ...




i wouldn't ssy that it's an improvement of the red demun, more like a variation, brcause to my ears the red is still better in mid and bass sector, while the blue indeed has more harmonics on the treble. i myself prefer the red, but the blue certainly is great also


----------



## DBaldock9

Surprising Synergy - I've been listening to the *VE Asura 2.0* earbud (150Ω, Balanced), connected to my *Shanling M1* DAP (using the VE 3.5mm TRS to 2.5mm TRRS adapter).  
  
 The balanced versions of the Asura 2.0 and Monk Plus were purchased to use with the 2.5mm TRRS output on my DP-X1, and they do sound good with that DAP.  I knew from briefly comparing them, that the Monk Plus has more Bass, and the Asura 2.0 has more clarity & detail.  The M1 / Asura combination is a pleasant surprise - since the M1 easily drives the 150Ω earbuds, and the sound quality is a _bit warmer_ than with the DP-X1 - which sounds _just right_ to me.
  
 Now I'm on a quest for an earbud that combines the clarity & detail of the Asura 2.0, with more Bass impact.  If it's available with Balanced 2.5mm TRRS connections, that would be even better.  
  
 Thanks for any suggestions!


----------



## golov17

dbaldock9 said:


> Surprising Synergy - I've been listening to the *VE Asura 2.0* earbud (150Ω, Balanced), connected to my *Shanling M1* DAP (using the VE 3.5mm TRS to 2.5mm TRRS adapter).
> 
> The balanced versions of the Asura 2.0 and Monk Plus were purchased to use with the 2.5mm TRRS output on my DP-X1, and they do sound good with that DAP.  I knew from briefly comparing them, that the Monk Plus has more Bass, and the Asura 2.0 has more clarity & detail.  The M1 / Asura combination is a pleasant surprise - since the M1 easily drives the 150Ω earbuds, and the sound quality is a _bit warmer_ than with the DP-X1 - which sounds _just right_ to me.
> 
> ...


You tried Shozy BK?


----------



## Pictograms

golov17 said:


> You tried Shozy BK?




I second that


----------



## DBaldock9

golov17 said:


> You tried Shozy BK?


 
 No, I haven't.  The balanced version of the Shozy BK costs 2x more than my current most expensive earbuds.  So, it would need to be a significant step up in audio quality from the Asura 2.0 and TKY2, before I'd consider spending that much.
  
 My current earbud collection consists of:
 1.) MusicMaker TKY2 - Earbud, 16Ω, 100dB/mW, 20Hz-25KHz, Metal housing, 2x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$88.01]
 2.) VE Asura 2.0 (2.5TRRS) - Earbud, 150Ω, 120dB/mW, 8Hz-25KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$88.00]
 3.) Daik DK-Song - Earbud, 16Ω, 108dB/mW, 20Hz-24KHz, Wood housing, 1x Dynamic, MMCX cable [$46.95]
 4.) VE Monk Plus (2.5TRRS) - Earbud, 64Ω, 122dB/mW, 20Hz-20KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$30.00]
 5.) 1More Piston (EO303) - Earbud, 32Ω, 98dB/mW, 20Hz-24KHz, Metal housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$17.79]
 6.) **** PT15 - Earbud, 32Ω, 120dB/mW, 10Hz-25KHz, Metal housing, 1x Dynamic, MMCX cable [$15.00]


----------



## vapman

dbaldock9 said:


> No, I haven't.  The balanced version of the Shozy BK costs 2x more than my current most expensive earbuds.  So, it would need to be a significant step up in audio quality from the Asura 2.0 and TKY2, before I'd consider spending that much.
> 
> My current earbud collection consists of:
> 1.) MusicMaker TKY2 - Earbud, 16Ω, 100dB/mW, 20Hz-25KHz, Metal housing, 2x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$88.01]
> ...


 
 have you tried amping your asura 2.0 and running it at the same volume you like to listen to? i find the asura 2.0 loves to eat power. you may find the low end bass come a lot more alive this way.


----------



## golov17

They will soon be discontinued in production, and you can always sell them, if that.. IMO


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> They will soon be discontinued in production, and you can always sell them, if that.. IMO


 
 woah asura is?


----------



## DBaldock9

vapman said:


> have you tried amping your asura 2.0 and running it at the same volume you like to listen to? i find the asura 2.0 loves to eat power. you may find the low end bass come a lot more alive this way.


 
 Listening in the quiet environment of my Living Room, either DAP (DP-X1 & M1) can play as loud as I'm comfortable with.  If I'm using my PC, which has the iFi Micro iDSD connected, I could turn it up loud enough to damage my hearing...
  
 I like the Low Bass of the Monk Plus, but would like more _refinement_ & _detail_ in the Bass.


----------



## DBaldock9

vapman said:


> woah asura is?


 
 I think he's referring to the Shozy BK, which he recommended.


----------



## vapman

dbaldock9 said:


> Listening in the quiet environment of my Living Room, either DAP (DP-X1 & M1) can play as loud as I'm comfortable with.  If I'm using my PC, which has the iFi Micro iDSD connected, I could turn it up loud enough to damage my hearing...
> 
> I like the Low Bass of the Monk Plus, but would like more _refinement_ & _detail_ in the Bass.


 
 My point was to turn down the DAP volume before the amp, so you can make use of the extra power from the amp, to get to the same volume you listen to when just using the DAP.
 The extra power will make the bass come alive in the Asura.


----------



## DBaldock9

vapman said:


> My point was to turn down the DAP volume before the amp, so you can make use of the extra power from the amp, to get to the same volume you listen to when just using the DAP.
> The extra power will make the bass come alive in the Asura.


 
 Ah, OK.  I don't actually connect the DAPs to the iDSD.
  
 In the past, I did try connecting my Nexus 5 phone & Nexus 7 tablet to the iDSD, and that did work.
  
 Currently, the normal setup is for the USB input to stay connected to a USB charger, while using the optical input from the PC, with the RCA outputs going to a couple of PreSonus Powered Monitor Speakers on my desk, and a Polk Sub-Woofer beside the desk.


----------



## DBaldock9

mochill said:


> Probably can if you ask


 
 I did contact the vendor, about buying a lot (Qty 10) of their cable, with 2.5mm TRRS connectors, but they said that wasn't enough for them to do a custom cable.


----------



## Saoshyant

My custom earbud is finished (It's on the right)
 And now we play the waiting game!


----------



## mochill

saoshyant said:


> My custom earbud is finished (It's on the right)
> And now we play the waiting game!


looks good


----------



## flamesofarctica

saoshyant said:


> My custom earbud is finished (It's on the right)
> And now we play the waiting game!




Looks edible to be honest :-D


----------



## Saoshyant

It's certainly an aesthetically awesome earbud.  The crafter is really friendly too.  I just hope he gets around to actually coming up with a name because I have no clue what to call this.


----------



## boblauer

saoshyant said:


> It's certainly an aesthetically awesome earbud.  The crafter is really friendly too.  I just hope he gets around to actually coming up with a name because I have no clue what to call this.



Looks like a candy cane or peppermint to me


----------



## flamesofarctica

boblauer said:


> Looks like a candy cane or peppermint to me




I was thinking those Strawberries & Cream sweets, or Raspberry Ripple


----------



## jant71

robervaul said:


> MEMT X3
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/MEMT-X3-mini-Dynamic-Heavy-Bass-In-Ear-Earphone-with-MIC/1994049_32791729679.html


 
  
 Zelda alerted me that they are on Penon Audio site now as well. Described as such...

Using metal composite diaphragm, aerospace metal material, to bring more extension of the treble details
PET material is soft and elastic, ensuring mellow accent and strong bass
Low frequency is strong and powerful. Vivid sound. Especially suitable for popular, rock and roll.
  
 Sounds good if accurate which Penon is pretty accurate. Would seem a bit V if bassy and vivid with some good treble detail.


----------



## Sound Eq

jant71 said:


> Zelda alerted me that they are on Penon Audio site now as well. Described as such...
> 
> Using metal composite diaphragm, aerospace metal material, to bring more extension of the treble details
> PET material is soft and elastic, ensuring mellow accent and strong bass
> ...


 
 this will be my first earbud i ordered it as well as monk plus


----------



## jant71

sound eq said:


> this will be my first earbud i ordered it as well as monk plus


 

 Sounds good as two I might like to try now are the X3 and the Espresso


----------



## Fabi

The IEM version (X5) of MEMT X3 is said to sound awesome for the price. Maybe they did the same on earbuds


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

saoshyant said:


> It's certainly an aesthetically awesome earbud.  The crafter is really friendly too.  I just hope he gets around to actually coming up with a name because I have no clue what to call this.


 
 What's the crafter's name? Lol.


----------



## musicday

Anyone know one i can find new Zen V 1.0?
Looking for this earbud to use it with the Tera Player.


----------



## vapman

musicday said:


> Anyone know one i can find new Zen V 1.0?
> Looking for this earbud to use it with the Tera Player.


 
 New? You and everyone else 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But I think @mochill  is trying to sell his VE collection including Black Edition everything and zen 1.


----------



## musicday

vapman said:


> musicday said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone know one i can find new Zen V 1.0?
> ...



There is no Zen 1.0 in his listing.


----------



## vapman

musicday said:


> There is no Zen 1.0 in his listing.


 

 Sadly it may be gone already, if he didn't decide to keep it. i saw it a few days ago...


----------



## Spider fan

musicday said:


> There is no Zen 1.0 in his listing.


 

 There is a used pair on ebay for $199.  Its out of Russia.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/VE-Zen-1-0-earbuds-RARE-one-of-best-/232163784715?hash=item360e0a380b:g:jJ0AAOSw44BYbqJB


----------



## musicday

spider fan said:


> musicday said:
> 
> 
> > There is no Zen 1.0 in his listing.
> ...



Thank you.


----------



## vapman

spider fan said:


> There is a used pair on ebay for $199.  Its out of Russia.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/VE-Zen-1-0-earbuds-RARE-one-of-best-/232163784715?hash=item360e0a380b:g:jJ0AAOSw44BYbqJB


 
 I didn't realize Zen 1 and Seahf 32 had a similar cable. I actually like that cable and would buy it on its own for DIY if i could find it anywhere.
  
  
*Facebook kicked me off again. Sorry to anyone that was using it to talk to me about Monk/Qian mods 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 PM me here to get in touch.*


----------



## moon20160404

I do not know the size of X3 and X3 mini


  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



moon


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman said:


> Sadly it may be gone already, if he didn't decide to keep it. i saw it a few days ago...




Yep, it's on it's way to me currently


----------



## Saoshyant

LaughMoreDaily Ryo Chandra Lesmana


----------



## musicday

Found some Zen V1 quite expensive,but with oxidation on the cable.
Should that worry me? And because of the high price I didn't make the jump.


----------



## vapman

musicday said:


> Found some Zen V1 quite expensive,but with oxidation on the cable.
> Should that worry me? And because of the high price I didn't make the jump.


 
 Nah, no problem with oxidation on the cable. Just like the Cygnus, green is good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
  
 Seems there are different opinions regarding how different TY Hi-Z 32 sound from one another. I have a V2 L-plug I don't think sounds so bad, but I keep hearing V1 straight plugs are on a different level from these. is that true for anyone else? I was enjoying my TY 32 enough I was thinking I'd recable it.


----------



## flamesofarctica

The TY HP400S and K's 300 arrived yesterday.

I do think some of the middle TY's get overlooked a bit, as I'd been really impressed with the HP320 and now I'm also really liking what I hear from the slightly bassier HP400S.

The K's 300 - it's quite a forward sound but aside from what I find an unattractive cable, provided it's amped it seems pretty good for the price. It seems to need more power than the 400S, which surprised me (am basing that purely on volume level when I change between the two, that might be totally the wrong way of judging, if so please let me know :-D Still learning!!). At first I was concerned it seemed a tiny bit harsh on some of the mids/highs but this seemed to settle or I got used to it. Certainly no harshness close to the levels of the TY HP32S or Yinman 64.

Anyway, will continue to try them out as early days yet. As an aside, either I was feeling particularly impatient last night, or both are strong contenders in my 'worlds tangliest earbuds' list.


----------



## 1TrickPony

could someone provide me a comparison between shozy bk vs Zen 2.0, and also Masya vs Zen 2.0?


----------



## Saoshyant

1trickpony said:


> could someone provide me a comparison between shozy bk vs Zen 2.0, and also Masya vs Zen 2.0?


 
  
 Still in the learning phase with the Zen 2, so many earbuds came in I don't want to give you any misinformation yet.  That will come later.


----------



## 1TrickPony

saoshyant said:


> Still in the learning phase with the Zen 2, so many earbuds came in I don't want to give you any misinformation yet.  That will come later.




I'm looking for vocals. female. jazz mostly. I think I've had you and someone else speak well of the masya, and wondered if it's worth the investment even if I already bought a used Zen 2.0


----------



## Saoshyant

1trickpony said:


> I'm looking for vocals. female. jazz mostly. I think I've had you and someone else speak well of the masya, and wondered if it's worth the investment even if I already bought a used Zen 2.0




Ok, I'll probably get back to you in a couple hours. I have a test track that does well for female vocals. That's assuming I don't forget before I head to bed.


----------



## Saoshyant

@1TrickPony I'm just not seeing a need to own both unless you just really want to collect or are willing to spend in order to find what suits you best.  I prefer the vocals of the Masya, but not by any significant amount.  The Zen 2 is great at so many things, at least so far in my limited experience with it.  It's not the best earbud I own, but it's very impressive.  The Rose approach at times can feel a little clinical, where the Zen feels more immersive.  There's also differences in ease of driving, which the Masya is certainly less taxing in order to reach an appropriate volume.
  
 Just keep in mind I haven't had much time with the Zen 2 yet, so these are initial impressions so far, as I've been a bit preoccupied with the CampFred.  I need to give my wallet a break, damn earbuds.


----------



## 1TrickPony

fair enough. my buddy who sold sold me his Zen didn't get a good seal. I suspect you need a good source that can juice this mofo. I'm just looking for a sweet vocal specialist earbud bud at this point and I'm not sure to pull the trigger on CAX and co yet. I haven't really read much on the Shozys either.


----------



## Danneq

Vocals cannot be any better than with Cypherus QFred...










 But it's not sweet on your wallet...


----------



## Saoshyant

danneq said:


> Vocals cannot be any better than with Cypherus QFred...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Especially considering they already have Zen 2. I'd love to hear QFred, but I suspect CampFred is still overall the best of that trio for me.


----------



## golov17

My DIY K326 have better vocal for me


----------



## Danneq

saoshyant said:


> Especially considering they already have Zen 2. I'd love to hear QFred, but I suspect CampFred is still overall the best of that trio for me.


 


 I prefer allrounders myself, but of the more midcentric earbuds I've heard (Zen 2, Asura 2, Cygnus, probably a few more I cannot remember right now) QFred has got the best and sweetest mids.

 But it doesn't work with all types of music like CampFred.


----------



## ctaxxxx

1trickpony said:


> could someone provide me a comparison between shozy bk vs Zen 2.0, and also Masya vs Zen 2.0?


 
  
 The Shozy BK (...just realized I've still been calling them Stardust) is a lot more neutral than the Zen. It's a neutral sound compared to a overly (imo) warm sound. Zen's have a lot more mid bass and rolled off treble. Great mids though. Shozy BK sounds thinner in comparison, but still a great earbud for its sound signature. This one comes down to personal preference.
  


danneq said:


> Vocals cannot be any better than with Cypherus QFred...
> 
> But it's not sweet on your wallet...


 
  
 The QFred's are amazing for vocals, but I agree with the price. I actually find them overpriced, especially considering I had to pay twice the amount for shipping compared to other DIY sellers for the same shipping service. Despite the great sound quality, I found the build quality disappointing. The paint has been coming off of the earbuds (maybe from sweat?), leftover glue residue that stuck to the initial foams, and the plug has no seal at the other end unlike all my other earbuds.


----------



## Danneq

ctaxxxx said:


> The QFred's are amazing for vocals, but I agree with the price. I actually find them overpriced, especially considering I had to pay twice the amount for shipping compared to other DIY sellers for the same shipping service. Despite the great sound quality, I found the build quality disappointing. The paint has been coming off of the earbuds (maybe from sweat?), leftover glue residue that stuck to the initial foams, and the plug has no seal at the other end unlike all my other earbuds.


 

 I had the same problem with the paint on my pair of QFred (none of the other problems, though). I solved that by buying a small can of Humbrol enamel silver metallic paint (#11) for hobby models and a small paint brush for models. It was fortunately a perfect match and now it's impossible to tell what is original paint and what is added by me.
 You should be able to find that paint in any hobby shop or online. Or some other brand that is silver metallic...

 By the way, about the seal at the plug, you mean it is open? I think that is for a purpose. Another Head fier who bought both CampFred and QFred noticed that the same plug is used but the QFred's plug isn't "closed". Herry replied him that it is on purpose because of the cable used for QFred.

 When I reported my problem to Herry he replied that he probably will only go with pre-colored housings from now on. He can create the most amazing sound in his earbuds, but the psysical finish isn't always perfect (for example the text on my CAX black started to come off).


----------



## BloodyPenguin

"Waits Patiently"....


  
 --


----------



## ctaxxxx

danneq said:


> I had the same problem with the paint on my pair of QFred (none of the other problems, though). I solved that by buying a small can of Humbrol enamel silver metallic paint (#11) for hobby models and a small paint brush for models. It was fortunately a perfect match and now it's impossible to tell what is original paint and what is added by me.
> You should be able to find that paint in any hobby shop or online. Or some other brand that is silver metallic...
> 
> By the way, about the seal at the plug, you mean it is open? I think that is for a purpose. Another Head fier who bought both CampFred and QFred noticed that the same plug is used but the QFred's plug isn't "closed". Herry replied him that it is on purpose because of the cable used for QFred.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks, I'll try that paint.
  
 About the seal, if the design is intentional then I'll retract my statement. I just thought it was something he overlooked.
  
 On the positive side, I really do like the cables he uses. They are the most flexible ones compared to my other earbuds, which tend to be too stiff and stay coiled. (The Cadenza's are the worst at this)


----------



## Karl2009

Hello all
  
 Looking forward to do any mod in some earbuds, I have thought to get some experience before and I have open one thread to talk about it, share our experiences, improvements, etc..
  
 I hope you find it interesting and I invite to all of you to participate.
  
 As starting point, what do you think that could produce a bigger modification in the sound, changing the cable, removing internal foams, removing grilles, modifying the housing...?
  
 Your opinions in the thread...
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/837455/earbuds-mods-the-thread


----------



## golov17

karl2009 said:


> Hello all
> 
> Looking forward to do any mod in some earbuds, I have thought to get some experience before and I have open one thread to talk about it, share our experiences, improvements, etc..
> 
> ...


 http://www.head-fi.org/t/822327/diy-earbuds


----------



## Karl2009

Well, I missed it, maybe new thread is redundant...


----------



## golov17

karl2009 said:


> Well, I missed it, maybe new thread is redundant...


 democracy is here


----------



## BloodyPenguin

BeatZen Earbuds?  I've never heard of them.

 www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-Original-New-BeatZen-A4-13MM-Moving-iron-headphones-for-iPhone-Samsung-LG-Wireless-Mobile-Earphone/32707871336.html
  






 
  
 --


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> BeatZen Earbuds?  I've never heard of them.
> 
> www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-Original-New-BeatZen-A4-13MM-Moving-iron-headphones-for-iPhone-Samsung-LG-Wireless-Mobile-Earphone/32707871336.html
> 
> ...


 https://www.google.ru/search?q=Beatzen%E7%BA%AF%E9%9F%B3A4%E8%BF%9B%E9%98%B6%E7%89%88%E5%8F%91%E7%83%A7%E8%80%B3%E5%A1%9E%E5%BC%8F%E8%80%B3%E6%9C%BAMX760%E5%8E%9F%E8%A3%858H2%E9%AB%98%E8%A7%A3%E6%9E%90%E5%85%A8%E9%A2%91%E5%8A%A8%E5%9C%88&oq=Beatzen%E7%BA%AF%E9%9F%B3A4%E8%BF%9B%E9%98%B6%E7%89%88%E5%8F%91%E7%83%A7%E8%80%B3%E5%A1%9E%E5%BC%8F%E8%80%B3%E6%9C%BAMX760%E5%8E%9F%E8%A3%858H2%E9%AB%98%E8%A7%A3%E6%9E%90%E5%85%A8%E9%A2%91%E5%8A%A8%E5%9C%88&aqs=chrome..69i57.1380j0j4&client=chrome-mobile&sourceid=chrome-mobile&espv=1&ie=UTF-8


----------



## BloodyPenguin

So, I was excited to share the* Rose Masya* and *TY Hi-Z 400se* with you all soon, as they were supposed to be here shortly.
  
 However, they seemed to have gone rogue.  I live about 25 minutes north of Chicago and I was JUST there yesterday.  I really wish I could have just picked them up.
  
 Now they are way out in Kansas and I am not sure why...


  
 --


----------



## vapman

At least you have a delivery date! There isn't even tracking on my taobao package because mistertao is a bunch of jerks.


----------



## Nec3

Edifier 180 came in the mail a few days ago. Gave them a chance for their sound signature to get embedded into my brain. Now they're definitely a slight step above the VE Monks in terms of mid-bass detail, kind of like Sennheisers, mids are nice and smooth but I can't shake off the feeling there's a big upper mid dip that isn't too great for japanese vocals. There *can* be good upper treble detail but it highly depends on the song. Soundstage is big and oval-like. 
  
 I'd put them a step above the Seahf 320 L-D3.0, but they're about on par with VE Monks as the Monks have a more natural midrange but less detail. I don't think I'd try donut covers since I use the Edifier180's for sleeping and I lose donut covers more than full foam covers. As for comfort, the Edifier 180's are able to seal much better than the VE Monks, plus they have a slimmer profile that allows sleeping on my side much more comfortable.

 Qian39's are on their way :>


----------



## rkw

bloodypenguin said:


> BeatZen Earbuds?  I've never heard of them.


 
  
 Haha, they are trying hard to capitalize on name confusion. "_We can't call it Beats and we can't call it Zen, so let's call it BeatZen_". If they were an American company, Apple would be swooping in so fast...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

What are some amazing budget white earbuds? I was thinking of trying to paint them. I was going to ask if the Edifier 180 are okay, but that review above made me curious if it's true... plus the metal piece on the bud might ruin the painting beauty of what a stock white earbud would have.


----------



## vapman

laughmoredaily said:


> What are some amazing budget white earbuds? I was thinking of trying to paint them. I was going to ask if the Edifier 180 are okay, but that review above made me curious if it's true... plus the metal piece on the bud might ruin the painting beauty of what a stock white earbud would have.


 
 you can buy white shells for dirt cheap and put any driver into them


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

vapman said:


> you can buy white shells for dirt cheap and put any driver into them


 
 That's a little too DIY for my knowledge. Is there any online videos that show how to do this? Youtube? 
  
 I was hoping for a earbud already made, but I guess I could go to and ask around at a local Maker Lab to see if someone knows more about doing that.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I just found some cute turquoise cord MX500 ear buds!
  
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-selling-3-5mm-In-ear-Earphones-Flat-Head-Plug-DIY-Earphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds-DJ/32791984472.html?spm=2114.13010308.0.0.5o4ime


----------



## vapman

laughmoredaily said:


> That's a little too DIY for my knowledge. Is there any online videos that show how to do this? Youtube?
> 
> I was hoping for a earbud already made, but I guess I could go to and ask around at a local Maker Lab to see if someone knows more about doing that.


 
 no idea if there are videos, you just pop off the front cover, detach the wires, put the wires in the new shell, re-attach the wires, pop the cover on, boom ya done.


----------



## noknok23

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]I apologize for the wall of text, even more knowing that I'm new to this. My descriptions might be a bit off and English is not my native language. I just want to share my recent impressions and feel like they might be useful to some.[/color][color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]I got the Cypherus Campfred a couple of days ago. At first I was disappointed. Both with my phone and walnut, the Campfred sounded weird. Too thin and a bit harsh with the phone while with the walnut, kind of congested, like forward sound but missing subbass. It doesn't handle high volume very well. As someone else said here earlier, high goes forward and distorted when it's too loud? Something sounds wrong for sure and campfred should not be used on too powerful sources. I had to use walnut on the lower volume. To said it quick, not the best synergy but that was still better than my phone so I sticked to this, doing "brain in" on the last days but felt minor improvements compare to my Seahf 650 if not at all until this very morning. I randomly plug them in my forgotten fiio m3, a tiny budget dap, and it went way beyond my expectations. Actually I feel like I'm listening directly to the sound of the source. Like I never felt the sound signature of the audio player so clearly. Extension is excellent, I listened to some vinyl rip and heard distortion noise of the recording that I never noticed before. It was so obvious that I was shocked and thought something was wrong. It's hard for me to describe the sound without saying what was already been said. Very natural, rather laid back and can handle nearly everything, amazing extension with bass and high. I tried with a bit of everything and it all sounds so rich, effortless, like a little river in the icy winter. [/color][color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]I actually like to use the thin foam from monk to give a hint of warm and fullness to the sound.[/color][color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]I find hard to believe I can have such a great sound with earbuds and this little fiio m3. 20/60, the on-screen volume of the device, is already a comfortable level of loudness and I wouldn't personally go beyond 30/60 for the sake of my ears. These earbuds are much easier to drive than Asura 2. [/color][color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]Sound is already wonderful to my taste but I can feel Campfred would happily be fed by a more detailed and extended source. I am fond of small and budget audio players with more focus on SQ than functionality. Thinking to invest in a Lotoo Paw Pico when it's released. Though Cayin n3 looks good as well[/color][color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]--------[/color][color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]With that being said, I feel like I can describe better the Seahf f650s now that I have another TOTL earbuds to compare with. Harder to drive, they can receive max volume from the walnut with no concern.[/color][color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]However they are underpowered with my phone and so-so with fiio m3. They truly deserve a powerful source to shine. More revealing on details, maybe more unforgiving, forward, "harsher" than campfred. They are great all rounder. I love the bass and midbass of old techno tracks. Deep and textured. However I remember they sounded weird with some classical tunes, thin and shallow. Could be that I use the walnut as a source/amp and have unfortunately nothing better to test them with. On acoustic guitar tunes, the midbass is a bit too big. They sound less natural than Campfred. But they shine with dub techno records, spatial sound and deep bass, I actually turned my head more than once with some sounds and voices. Thinking there was some weird stuff around. Just to testify the quality and realism of concrete sounds reproduction. As I understood, they have better extension than Zen 2 and are more balanced. The kick is tight, the bass textured. Sound is more on the energetic side than Campfred. It's hard to tell if they are bright or warm. Vshaped? They have more prononced low and high than Campfred without shadowing the midrange.[/color][color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]Paired with walnut, I had my moments of amazement on 80's recordings. The grain and texture is so detailed and alive. I felt like I was listening to the actual tapes.[/color][color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]Fashionwise, the colour of the shells is a deep copper brown that match perfectly with the braided cable. Said cable being soft and a bit heavy to my taste, a shirt clip help a lot for comfort and safety. the plug is L shaped and made of thick black plastic. Overall nice low-key look. Not cheap at all but doesn't scream luxury either.[/color][color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]Campfred might sounds "better" and is way easier to drive, but Seahf 650 have nothing to be ashamed of. They are around 113€ which is cheaper than most high-end earbuds. If you listen to rough but complex music. They are an excellent choice[/color]


----------



## vapman

Good impressions, @noknok23. But with all these reviews that Campfred is best at lower volume and without an amp, I know they're not for me 
  
 I really really wanna know how seahf 650 compares to ty 650


----------



## Fabi

noknok23 said:


> [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]Very natural, rather laid back and can handle nearly everything, amazing extension with bass and high. I tried with a bit of everything and it all sounds so rich, effortless, like a little river in the icy winter. [/color]


 
  
 Wow, that makes me think a bit of what Stardust did to me.
 Very interesting, mate. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  


noknok23 said:


> [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
> [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
> [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]The kick is tight, the bass textured. Sound is more on the energetic side than Campfred. It's hard to tell if they are bright or warm. Vshaped? They have more prononced low and high than Campfred without shadowing the midrange.[/color]


 
 I only had Seahf 32. I would describe their sound as V-shaped on the bright side. I guess Seahf 650 would be around the same but better in everything.
  
 It seems you like them very much, from my experience with TY650 and K's 500, I would suggest you to buy a more powerful amp to make them shine even more to reach eargasm.
 Btw, have you tried them on your walnut on amp mode?


----------



## vapman

How many people here have Seahf 650?
  
 I am gonna be sad sending the iDSD Micro BL tour unit back, because listening to buds on Turbo mode is the most fun thing. People don't give some buds like the Asura 2.0 enough credit for how well they can amp, even being played at moderate volumes, just loaded up with juice.


----------



## Townyj

Still wondering why the CF would distort at higher levels... it doesn't seem right at all, could be a design flaw..?? That whole thing put me off purchasing them in the first place...
  
 Nice impressions though, even though i will never purchase a pair. Its nice to read about them


----------



## vapman

townyj said:


> Still wondering why the CF would distort at higher levels... it doesn't seem right at all, could be a design flaw..?? That whole thing put me off purchasing them in the first place...
> 
> Nice impressions though, even though i will never purchase a pair. Its nice to read about them


 
 some buds hate amping, i have some buds that even with no eq, the bass power on even low gain of any amp makes the low end blow out. surely campfred is based on one of these drivers. they are ideal for DAP users, as those typically have very weak headphone outputs but clean ones.
  
 i personally don't even bother with drivers that can't be given at least 3/4 a full watt of power. dont wanna mod anything that i can't eq the hell out of later aggressively and know it won't care.


----------



## Townyj

vapman said:


> some buds hate amping, i have some buds that even with no eq, the bass power on even low gain of any amp makes the low end blow out. surely campfred is based on one of these drivers. they are ideal for DAP users, as those typically have very weak headphone outputs but clean ones.
> 
> i personally don't even bother with drivers that can't be given at least 3/4 a full watt of power. dont wanna mod anything that i can't eq the hell out of later aggressively and know it won't care.


 
  
 Seems like that's the case with them, ive never had a pair of earbuds do it so im not sure on the exact sound 
  
 Personally not a fan of EQ in any manner. But power handling is another story, they should at least handle low gain on any amp with an adjustable source.


----------



## DBaldock9

@vapman - Was just reading your TY Hi-Z 650 review, and the 12-FEB-17 Update, where you said, "Reduced from 5 stars to 4.5 stars. Reason being, it doesn't have anywhere close to the greatest bass in earbuds anymore, ..."
  
Which earbuds have you found with impressive Bass impact, and also the positive qualities of the Hi-Z 650?
  
Thanks,
David Baldock


----------



## golov17

Just play with some rubber rings


----------



## vapman

dbaldock9 said:


> @vapman - Was just reading your TY Hi-Z 650 review, and the 12-FEB-17 Update, where you said, "Reduced from 5 stars to 4.5 stars. Reason being, it doesn't have anywhere close to the greatest bass in earbuds anymore, ..."
> 
> Which earbuds have you found with impressive Bass impact, and also the positive qualities of the Hi-Z 650?
> 
> ...


 
 David, I've yet to find one which both offers all the clarity of a well amped TY 650 and slammin' bass. The closest I've gotten is my modded Qian39, which is both a bass cannon and neutral but very revealing bud.
  
 And I apologize because I know you're sick of hearing this from me, but the only other one I can think of aside from Qian39 is  a well amped Asura 2.0. But, it won't have that rockin bass without EQ - you'll need to EQ up the Asura for sure.
  
 If you prefer to not EQ, I think you may find Puresounds 600 fits your description quite well. I almost never use mine since they really don't like EQing, and I EQ fairly heavily. But they are about toe to toe with the TY 650 in many respects, I just don't have an easy time recommending it at the price of $140. Really it should be 70-80 if I had any say on how much it costs. I got mine for free in exchange for writing the review, so I have to keep in mind the price others would spend when recommending it.
  
 There are a few others that both offer exceptional bass and a great, cohesive sound, but I don't think they are in the same league as the above mentioned ones in terms of detail or clarity.
  
 If you would like any specific info on the Puresounds 600, feel free to send me a private message. I may send it around so others can hear it, or just give it away, since it was free to me.


----------



## DBaldock9

vapman said:


> David, I've yet to find one which both offers all the clarity of a well amped TY 650 and slammin' bass. The closest I've gotten is my modded Qian39, which is both a bass cannon and neutral but very revealing bud.
> 
> And I apologize because I know you're sick of hearing this from me, but the only other one I can think of aside from Qian39 is  a well amped Asura 2.0. But, it won't have that rockin bass without EQ - you'll need to EQ up the Asura for sure.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm listening to the album "11:11", by Rodrigo Y Gabriela on the Asura 2.0, from the balanced output of my DP-X1 right now.  Their percussive guitar playing style sounds really good with the Asura.
  
 As far as EQ'ing goes, I have some Bass, and other effects, activated in Viper4Android on the DP-X1 - and I do use it sometime.  But, I haven't spent enough time tweaking the settings - to get it adjusted for what I'd consider a _natural sound_ through the Midrange & Treble, with the extra Bass impact & clarity I'd like to hear.
  
 One thing I'm conscious of, is that earbuds the size & shape of the Monk Plus and Asura 2.0, don't provide the best fit and Bass coupling for me.  I'm using the White/Black donut foams that came with the VE order, and I've got some Heigi donut foams ordered.  Do you have suggestions for anything else to try?
  
 Thanks,
 David Baldock


----------



## kfarndog

1trickpony said:


> I'm looking for vocals. female. jazz mostly. I think I've had you and someone else speak well of the masya, and wondered if it's worth the investment even if I already bought a used Zen 2.0




I much prefer Masya for vocal, but not by miles over the Zen 2.0. Masya for classical is preferred for me too.


----------



## vapman

dbaldock9 said:


> I'm listening to the album "11:11", by Rodrigo Y Gabriela on the Asura 2.0, from the balanced output of my DP-X1 right now.  Their percussive guitar playing style sounds really good with the Asura.
> 
> As far as EQ'ing goes, I have some Bass, and other effects, activated in Viper4Android on the DP-X1 - and I do use it sometime.  But, I haven't spent enough time tweaking the settings - to get it adjusted for what I'd consider a _natural sound_ through the Midrange & Treble, with the extra Bass impact & clarity I'd like to hear.
> 
> ...


 
 David, 
  
 I don't remember if you have a Qian39. One of those recabled for a balanced connection is a slimmer form factor than Asura 2 so it might work better for you. When recabled that bud is really surprisingly excellent and has a great bass impact and depth. Not sure if you are a DIY kind of guy, if so the cable swap can do very impressive things. If not, I actually have a Qian39 around I threw a 2.5mm balanced cable on, I could try it out on a balanced DAP for you and see how it fares.
  
 As the Puresounds shares the MX500 style shell with the Asura 2.0, I am not sure I would recommend the Puresounds model. Curious if you have the **** PT15? I found it to take to EQing in the bass very impressively, and it has a unique fitting shell as well.
  
 In my opinion, Hiegi foams - donut or full - will provide the best bass experience. It is pretty surprising how much bass impact and clarity it can add to certain buds.
  
 I personally use a fairly aggressive EQ as well as the XBass switch on the iDSD Micro:
  

  
 With the -16dB pre-gain, I can make use of the iDSD's turbo mode and not blow my ears out with it being too loud at all.


----------



## Nachash

I should really try to get into the diy world, I'm really interested to hear both the Qian with different cables. The 39 is probably my favorite earbud, followed by the 25 and the PT15


----------



## vapman

nachash said:


> I should really try to get into the diy world, I'm really interested to hear both the Qian with different cables. The 39 is probably my favorite earbud, followed by the 25 and the PT15


 
 Being able to transplant a PT15 into another shell without any assistance is a true measure of DIY skill. If you can do that without help, consider yourself an earbud DIY pro, at least by my standards 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 All i can say is don't do a bud you love without a backup around.


----------



## luedriver

can anyone recomend these diy mx760's that @BloodyPenguin posted?
  
 or any other recabled mx760's ?
  
 I also found these aluminum earbuds on ali, are they any good?


----------



## vapman

luedriver said:


> can anyone recomend these diy mx760's that @BloodyPenguin posted?
> 
> or any other recabled mx760's ?
> 
> I also found these aluminum earbuds on ali, are they any good?


 
 Bass is no better than cygnus but nice forward midrange if thats your thing.


----------



## noknok23

fabi said:


> Btw, have you tried them on your walnut on amp mode?



I'm trying now with fiio m3... It's actually pretty good!


----------



## luedriver

vapman said:


> Bass is no better than cygnus but nice forward midrange if thats your thing.


 
 which do you mean the mx760's or the metal earbuds?
  
 and do you mean they are very similar to cygnus?


----------



## Nachash

vapman said:


> Being able to transplant a PT15 into another shell without any assistance is a true measure of DIY skill. If you can do that without help, consider yourself an earbud DIY pro, at least by my standards
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, I already have two PT15 but they're not gonna be the first one to mod.
  

 Btw, anyone can recommend me a really nice mid-focused earbud? I don't know if I should jump directly to the TY650 or if there's something else a little cheaper (spending too much recently 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), I need something that can keep up with fast music without sounding congested.


----------



## vapman

nachash said:


> Yeah, I already have two PT15 but they're not gonna be the first one to mod.
> 
> 
> Btw, anyone can recommend me a really nice mid-focused earbud? I don't know if I should jump directly to the TY650 or if there's something else a little cheaper (spending too much recently
> ...


 
 ty650 is not mid focused at all. you want a high end one though?


----------



## Nachash

vapman said:


> ty650 is not mid focused at all. you want a high end one though?


 

 Let's put it this way, I don't want a v-shapy one and it has to keep up with fast music without sounding congested. I think that I have too many budget earbuds and I'm ready to get an mid-to-high earbud, in the 100-150 price range.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I JUST finished my review of three *Puresounds Earbuds*.  I am exhausted, but very happy how it turned out.
   www.head-fi.org/t/837560/meet-the-puresounds-earbud-family
  

  
  

  
 --


----------



## vapman

nachash said:


> Let's put it this way, I don't want a v-shapy one and it has to keep up with fast music without sounding congested. I think that I have too many budget earbuds and I'm ready to get an mid-to-high earbud, in the 100-150 price range.


 
 I think TY 650 is a good one for you then. I think it can be had for less than the PS600? Either of those two would do the job.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> I think TY 650 is a good one for you then. I think it can be had for less than the PS600? Either of those two would do the job.


 

 I agree with Vapman.  From your description, the TY Hi-Z HP650 would fit what you are looking for in an earbud.

 --


----------



## Nachash

bloodypenguin said:


> I agree with Vapman.  From your description, the TY Hi-Z HP650 would fit what you are looking for in an earbud.
> 
> --


 

 Yeah, in my mind it was that or the K500. I'm just waiting for the right moment on ali


----------



## PureSounds-cn

nachash said:


> Yeah, in my mind it was that or the K500. I'm just waiting for the right moment on ali



Try PS100-500 POP


----------



## Nec3

Does anyone know where to buy donut foam covers? I bought regular foam covers without the hole in the middle but I can't seem to find the one with the hole. Looking at ones in a pack of 20 or 100.


----------



## gobin

This is not completely earbud-related stuff but very intriguing discovery for me.
So I got a chance to try the Sennheiser HD598SE, my first ever open back headphones, on my laptop using normal Spotify and Youtube. Out of those sources, they have so much in common with the VE Monk I own regarding sound atage,imagingand, and airiness/openness. So this can be somewhat a confirmation for me about the statement "earbuds sound like openback headphone." And they absolutely do, atleast with my untrained ears amd quite crappy sources.

However, HD598SE is noticeably smoother and warmer overall. It also has a much more prominent bass.
The Monk Plus's sound is leaner in comparison.


----------



## golov17

nec3 said:


> Does anyone know where to buy donut foam covers? I bought regular foam covers without the hole in the middle but I can't seem to find the one with the hole. Looking at ones in a pack of 20 or 100.


 HieGi High Quality Middle Empty Foam Cushions for Earphones Earbuds 6 Pairs eartips
 http://s.aliexpress.com/E3I3YJzM 

Cutout earbud earphones sponge cover double thickening sponge
 http://s.aliexpress.com/qMnUVjIV


----------



## Nachash

puresounds-cn said:


> Try PS100-500 POP


 

 Throw me a discount then 


golov17 said:


> HieGi High Quality Middle Empty Foam Cushions for Earphones Earbuds 6 Pairs eartips
> http://s.aliexpress.com/E3I3YJzM
> 
> Cutout earbud earphones sponge cover double thickening sponge
> http://s.aliexpress.com/qMnUVjIV


 
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/punch/1862388_32584996156.html
  
 This should work too


----------



## weedophile

That's some nice collection of rubber rings, care to share source?
  
 Quote:


golov17 said:


> Just play with some rubber rings


----------



## golov17

nachash said:


> Throw me a discount then
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/punch/1862388_32584996156.html
> 
> This should work too


 http://www.head-fi.org/t/837560/meet-the-puresounds-earbud-family


----------



## golov17

China, New Zeland, Russia, Hong Kong, etc...


----------



## ClieOS

nec3 said:


> Does anyone know where to buy donut foam covers? I bought regular foam covers without the hole in the middle but I can't seem to find the one with the hole. Looking at ones in a pack of 20 or 100.


 
  
 Just cut a hole into them. If you want to do it more elegantly, get a hole puncher from any stationery store.


----------



## PureSounds-cn

clieos said:


> Just cut a hole into them. If you want to do it more elegantly, get a hole puncher from any stationery store.



hi clieos ，could you please share your opinion on puresounds ps100-600 here，
vapman just rated it with 3.5 stars ，I must say I dont think so 。It's seems a little too low anyway , LoL


----------



## mochill

puresounds-cn said:


> clieos said:
> 
> 
> > Just cut a hole into them. If you want to do it more elegantly, get a hole puncher from any stationery store.
> ...


he doesn't have the right power


----------



## Nec3

clieos said:


> Just cut a hole into them. If you want to do it more elegantly, get a hole puncher from any stationery store.


 


nachash said:


> Throw me a discount then
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/punch/1862388_32584996156.html
> 
> This should work too


 
  
 I do have a hole punch, but it's not very good with foam unfortunately. When it does work the hole is a bit too big. I just went with Golov's suggestion for now. I'll get the hole punch later :>


----------



## golov17

nec3 said:


> I do have a hole punch, but it's not very good with foam unfortunately. When it does work the hole is a bit too big. I just went with Golov's suggestion for now. I'll get the hole punch later :>


 Leather Craft Tools Automatic Belts Punch Replaceable Long Mute Rotary Punching Punchers 6pcs Tips
 http://s.aliexpress.com/uYbyaaaI


----------



## golov17

http://www.head-fi.org/t/783669/venture-electronics-ve-monk-monk-plus-a-5-earbud-that-taking-the-world-by-storm/6645#post_13158488


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Can someone tell me that there are better budget earbuds than the Benjie BJ-49 out there?
  
 These ear buds play almost everything equally well and with good clarity and great sound. 
  
 The Philips SHE 3800 and K's 64 Ohm headphones were a waste of money compared to the Benjie's. I hope I don't feel the same negative way about the other 20 earbuds/iems I bought because of this forum and my bad shopping habits. Lol.


----------



## golov17

laughmoredaily said:


> Can someone tell me that there are better budget earbuds than the Benjie BJ-49 out there?
> 
> These ear buds play almost everything equally well and with good clarity and great sound.
> 
> The Philips SHE 3800 and K's 64 Ohm headphones were a waste of money compared to the Benjie's. I hope I don't feel the same negative way about the other 20 earbuds/iems I bought because of this forum and my bad shopping habits. Lol.


 http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds


----------



## teston

puresounds-cn said:


> hi clieos ，could you please share your opinion on puresounds ps100-600 here，
> vapman just rated it with 3.5 stars ，I must say I dont think so 。It's seems a little too low anyway , LoL



There are always hate and love towards a product. Ones cake can be others trash. But I like the way Vapman stay true to his opinion even he got the buds for free. I read some reviews and think that free sample from the sellers/manufacturers hold the reviewers off to his true conclusion, and end up with unclear sentences.


----------



## Nachash

laughmoredaily said:


> Can someone tell me that there are better budget earbuds than the Benjie BJ-49 out there?
> 
> These ear buds play almost everything equally well and with good clarity and great sound.
> 
> The Philips SHE 3800 and K's 64 Ohm headphones were a waste of money compared to the Benjie's. I hope I don't feel the same negative way about the other 20 earbuds/iems I bought because of this forum and my bad shopping habits. Lol.


 

 Do you have any Qian buds?


----------



## Frederick Wang

laughmoredaily said:


> Can someone tell me that there are better budget earbuds than the Benjie BJ-49 out there?
> 
> These ear buds play almost everything equally well and with good clarity and great sound.
> 
> The Philips SHE 3800 and K's 64 Ohm headphones were a waste of money compared to the Benjie's. I hope I don't feel the same negative way about the other 20 earbuds/iems I bought because of this forum and my bad shopping habits. Lol.


 
 How much is BJ-49? 
  
 Edit:
 OK, did some search, as I suspected, the original price was around 7$, but Benjie's taobao store no longer carries it, and several 3rd party sellers have doubled the price.


----------



## DBaldock9

vapman said:


> David,
> 
> I don't remember if you have a Qian39. One of those recabled for a balanced connection is a slimmer form factor than Asura 2 so it might work better for you. When recabled that bud is really surprisingly excellent and has a great bass impact and depth. Not sure if you are a DIY kind of guy, if so the cable swap can do very impressive things. If not, I actually have a Qian39 around I threw a 2.5mm balanced cable on, I could try it out on a balanced DAP for you and see how it fares.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've worked as an Electronics Technician for more than 30-years, but it's been a few years since I've done much micro-electronics soldering.  Lately, it's been mostly soldering things the size of DB pins (for DB-9 & DB25 connectors), or BNC / TRB connectors.  If needed, we do have a microscope that I can use at the solder station in our Tech Shop.
   
I do have the **** PT15, and find that it stays comfortably in-place, worn over-the-ear with silicone ear hooks.  It sounds good, especially for less than $20 (with MMCX connectors) - but I do prefer the sound of the Mid-Bass & Midrange on the Asura.  And, the Asura has more Bass.

  
 The other earbud I've got with MMCX, the DAIK DK-Song, sounds similar to the PT15, but with less Bass & Mid-Bass.  It has a slightly hollow sound, but I haven't used it much, and maybe it needs some burn-in time.
  
 Oddly enough, considering its size & shape, the most comfortable earbud I've got is the MusicMaker TKY2 (worn over-the-ear with silicone ear hooks).  The TKY2 has good Midrange & Treble, but the Bass is better on the Asura (and there's even more Bass with the Monk Plus - just not the clarity & detail).
  
 The Mantis C7 earbuds I ordered last month, are in the USA, but haven't been delivered yet (and won't be today, due the President's Day holiday...).
  
 It's interesting that the _upgrade_ for Bass for my $88 VE Asura 2.0 (2.5TRRS), that you're recommending, is the $6 Qian39 (with recabling)...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 What is a good quality bulk wire to use when recabling earbuds?
  
 Thanks,
 David Baldock


----------



## Ira Delphic

From vapman's Puresounds review, value (or lack of) was most significant demerit. I thought it was a helpful review, and it was updated to be less harsh, if you skip to the end.


----------



## noknok23

The problem is there is too many earbuds review with 5 stars... it can be misleading for a newbie who think the best rated earbuds are the best one.


----------



## vapman

ira delphic said:


> From vapman's Puresounds review, value (or lack of) was most significant demerit. I thought it was a helpful review, and it was updated to be less harsh, if you skip to the end.


 
 I still go back and forth on how i should have rated it as cygnus or asura 2 makes it seem kinda bad. I dunno, it probably deserves the lower end of what i rated.
  


noknok23 said:


> The problem is there is too many earbuds review with 5 stars... it can be misleading for a newbie who think the best rated earbuds are the best one.


 
 This is a definite problem too, partially because there are so many new ones coming out all the time it's easy for that was 5 stars, 5 months ago, to no longer be anything really special...


----------



## rkw

My Jotunheim has a 4-pin XLR output for balanced headphones.
  
 I'm planning to get a TRRS to XLR adapter, like one of these:
 
  
 My question is, should I get one with 2.5mm or 3.5mm TRRS connector? If I buy balanced earbuds, is one size more common than the other?


----------



## notamethlab

rkw said:


> My Jotunheim has a 4-pin XLR output for balanced headphones.
> 
> I'm planning to get a TRRS to XLR adapter, like one of these:
> 
> ...



I believe 2.5 trrs is a lot more common. Just a few examples of 2.5 buds; cygnus, stardust, puresounds, k's 500. The only 3.5 trrs I know of is the monk+.


----------



## vapman

I might have cracked the CampFred formula


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

nachash said:


> Do you have any Qian buds?


 
 I have the 25 and 39. First impression of the 25 is a daily use ear bud with amazing sound and a great low-price point. The 39 has some piercing highs, and hopefully burn in will fix that. If not the 25 will be great. I believe first impressions are everything, and it looks like the Qian 25 is probably better of the 2.


----------



## Spider fan

laughmoredaily said:


> I have the 25 and 39. First impression of the 25 is a daily use ear bud with amazing sound and a great low-price point. The 39 has some piercing highs, and hopefully burn in will fix that. If not the 25 will be great. I believe first impressions are everything, and it looks like the Qian 25 is probably better of the 2.


 
 I agree I love my 25 it sounds complete, full and nicely balanced. It is my new tv and movie bud since it sounds so natural.   I dont know if my 39 is defective but bass is very untight but yet at same time less than the 25s, mids sounds recessed and the highs while often nice can get as you say piercing.  I like to try my buds when watching tv just to hear how natural things sound with them.  With the 39 when say glass breaks or cars crash it is painful to hear. I really want to like it since I like how small the casing is.   I'll probably order another or two just incase I got a dud.  I think I might of since mine sounds nothing like what others describe.


----------



## vapman

spider fan said:


> I agree I love my 25 it sounds complete, full and nicely balanced. It is my new tv and movie bud since it sounds so natural.   I dont know if my 39 is defective but bass is very untight but yet at same time less than the 25s, mids sounds recessed and the highs while often nice can get as you say piercing.  I like to try my buds when watching tv just to hear how natural things sound with them.  With the 39 when say glass breaks or cars crash.  It is painful to hear. I really want to like it since I like how small the casing is.   I'll probably order another or two just incase I got a dud.  I think I might off since mine sounds nothing like what others describe.


 
 The cables on the qian's are like 90s earbud cables. Thin as heck. A bad connection or solder job from the factory could easily mean a weak sound. Also possible one's wired backwards? You could try the twisted cable sound test... http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php


----------



## Nachash

spider fan said:


> I agree I love my 25 it sounds complete, full and nicely balanced. It is my new tv and movie bud since it sounds so natural.   I dont know if my 39 is defective but bass is very untight but yet at same time less than the 25s, mids sounds recessed and the highs while often nice can get as you say piercing.  I like to try my buds when watching tv just to hear how natural things sound with them.  With the 39 when say glass breaks or cars crash.  It is painful to hear. I really want to like it since I like how small the casing is.   I'll probably order another or two just incase I got a dud.  I think I might of since mine sounds nothing like what others describe.


 
 I can tell you that mine are not harsh at hall, they were never harsh.


----------



## Spider fan

vapman said:


> The cables on the qian's are like 90s earbud cables. Thin as heck. A bad connection or solder job from the factory could easily mean a weak sound. Also possible one's wired backwards? You could try the twisted cable sound test... http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php


 
 I think I just have a dud.  It test fine but then when I listen to music the bass just is either not there or sounds like a hot mess.  No big deal got way too much stuff I like that I dont have time to listen to as it is.  I'll get another  next time I make a aliexpress order. 
  
 I wouldnt of even replied to the original post but I want to agree with how much he like the 25.  I think it doesnt get enough love.  I see so many people ordering the 39 but not the 25.  I got my 25 as a what the hell its cheap throw in when I was ordering the 39.  Now its probably my value favorite.


----------



## Nachash

vapman said:


> The cables on the qian's are like 90s earbud cables. Thin as heck. A bad connection or solder job from the factory could easily mean a weak sound. Also possible one's wired backwards? You could try the twisted cable sound test... http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php


 

 wth, my 39 doesn't rattle anymore with the bass shaker


----------



## flamesofarctica

vapman said:


> I still go back and forth on how i should have rated it as cygnus or asura 2 makes it seem kinda bad. I dunno, it probably deserves the lower end of what i rated.
> 
> This is a definite problem too, partially because there are so many new ones coming out all the time it's easy for that was 5 stars, 5 months ago, to no longer be anything really special...




Just a word on the integrity of your reviews, being spot on and honest considering the fact I've always assumed a certain influence when items have been discounted for reviewing purposes. And the fact you've been happy to update your reviews where appropriate. Big thumbs up on both points I'm glad to say!


----------



## purplesun

dbaldock9 said:


> I've worked as an Electronics Technician for more than 30-years, but it's been a few years since I've done much micro-electronics soldering.  Lately, it's been mostly soldering things the size of DB pins (for DB-9 & DB25 connectors), or BNC / TRB connectors.  If needed, we do have a microscope that I can use at the solder station in our Tech Shop.


 
  
 Ear buds are easier than DB connectors soldering. The solder pads are further apart & don't require special-sized tips. I use 30watt mostly, and have used as high as 60watts but you have to be fast. IMO, it's one of the easier solder jobs to perform, just pre-tin everything first. Hardest bit is keeping the voice coils from separating while opening the bud, other than that the cost-benefit of cable-swapping is definitely worth it. Look for cable-wires between 28AWG to 24AWG and outer diameter less than 1.65mm (ideally less than 1.6mm).


----------



## ClieOS

puresounds-cn said:


> hi clieos ，could you please share your opinion on puresounds ps100-600 here，
> vapman just rated it with 3.5 stars ，I must say I dont think so 。It's seems a little too low anyway , LoL


 
  
 Nothing to share at the moment as I have not received my Taobao order yet. Forwarding service can be quite tedious sometime.


----------



## vapman

DBaldock9 earbuds are easier that what you listed so i think you would be okay doing it! 

I'm happy to say though, my DIY CampFred is working beautifully... Need to try different cables with these drivers but not bad if i do say myself...


----------



## Brian Coffey

vapman said:


> I'm happy to say though, my DIY CampFred is working beautifully... Need to try different cables with these drivers but not bad if i do say myself...


 
 Based off of Edifier 185? or something else?


----------



## vapman

brian coffey said:


> Based off of Edifier 185? or something else?



Not sure if i should say in public  i am probably making Cyprus mad enough 
All ill say, not edifier!


----------



## Saoshyant

CampFred and PT15 share similar treble qualities, but I'm just guessing.


----------



## Townyj

Just sold my HD600s... save or more buds. Oh geeze. :/


----------



## ProLoL

And I've sold my STAX to invest in one special earbud  
 My MX985 sounds better than my old Audio Technica AD2000X which sounded so veiled compares to the mx985.
 Hopefully in the near future I'll get that one special "golden" ear bud.


----------



## alizeofeniquito

vapman said:


> Not sure if i should say in public  i am probably making Cyprus mad enough
> All ill say, not edifier!


 
 Can you pm me what bud vap? I want to diy also. lolz.


----------



## Brian Coffey

alizeofeniquito said:


> Can you pm me what bud vap? I want to diy also. lolz.


 
 I would like to know as well ! Second guess is the Qian39. Feel free to PM me.


----------



## vapman

prolol said:


> And I've sold my STAX to invest in one special earbud
> My MX985 sounds better than my old Audio Technica AD2000X which sounded so veiled compares to the mx985.
> Hopefully in the near future I'll get that one special "golden" ear bud.




I also sold my stax to go all in! But mx985 has been beat now even i think by earbud mods unless you want the flat fr.

None of you guessed right...


----------



## rkw

I guess it doesn't take much to reverse engineer most earbuds — just pop it open and look. Most are assembled using off-the-shelf parts. But the proof will be to actually build one that is equivalent.


----------



## Brian Coffey

vapman said:


> I also sold my stax to go all in! But mx985 has been beat now even i think by earbud mods unless you want the flat fr.
> 
> None of you guessed right...


 
 Awwww I thought I had it with that second guess.


----------



## Brian Coffey

brian coffey said:


> Awwww I thought I had it with that second guess.


 
 Okay last guess is modded OG Monk....Which I will have to buy on open market.


----------



## ProLoL

vapman said:


> I also sold my stax to go all in! But mx985 has been beat now even i think by earbud mods unless you want the flat fr.
> 
> None of you guessed right...


 
 I know mx985 isn't the "greatest", I'm leaning on buying the "greatest" which for my knowledge is the CAX golden reference. As I said, hopefully in the near future I'll have them


----------



## fairx

I just received my 2nd pair of qian39. Out if the box they sound awesome without burn. I will buy another, hear it once and keep it as a heirloom. LOL.. 

People have expectations. My expectations for cheap earbud are pretty low. As price goes up so does expectations. But particularly in earbud arena. Price as bang for buck are way astronomical compared to iem, let alone headphones. 

BTW last night a I listened to my rig with ty 320, without foam and blown away listening to chesky's binaural. The rig is, to my ear are as transparent and natural as things can. There's simply no harshness in binaural recordings. Everything comes alive and heart pumping. Oh and quite circular stage, obviously not oval like many other. 

And yet this morning when I listen to newly arrived qian I'm still impressed by it. Yet the same rig doesn't agree with qian39. Thin, lifeless and sometimes hot. I rather use qian with phones or portables. And really like it that way. 

So what's with the rambling? Lol. The moral is, source matching. With the right match 5 dollar earbud can sound like a 100 or vice versa. Gather so much gear and maybe we all can be enlightend like Mr golov


----------



## ClieOS

prolol said:


> I know mx985 isn't the "greatest", I'm leaning on buying the "greatest" which for my knowledge is the CAX golden reference. As I said, hopefully in the near future I'll have them




Greatest can be different thing to different people. While knowledge is useful, note that it isn't a 100% substitution for experience and taste.


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> Not sure if i should say in public  i am probably making Cyprus mad enough
> All ill say, not edifier!


 


 Looks like you are working on an advanced project...


----------



## PureSounds-cn

clieos said:


> Nothing to share at the moment as I have not received my Taobao order yet. Forwarding service can be quite tedious sometime.


 
 It 's okay to share later


----------



## Tomasz2D

It has been mentioned already several times in this thread that CampFred is allegedly based on Advance Digitals driver.
  
http://advance-digitals.com/website/


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> It has been mentioned already several times in this thread that CampFred is allegedly based on Advance Digitals driver.
> 
> http://advance-digitals.com/website/


 

 Long time no see! And here I was trying to be subtle with my "advanced" comment...


----------



## Fabi

Lol Oh yeah I remember that now, these are/were pretty famous in Indonesia.


----------



## vapman

Hmmm.... Qfred also an advanced digi?


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> Hmmm.... Qfred also an advanced digi?


 


 They do sound very different (although they share that "analogue" sound) and QFred is 70ohm while CampFred is 32ohm. But it can still be the same driver.


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> They do sound very different (although they share that "analogue" sound) and QFred is 70ohm while CampFred is 32ohm. But it can still be the same driver.



Are your Qfred painted?
Or do they look like this?


Yes these are the infamous pajamas of my idsd bl review.


----------



## Tomasz2D

danneq said:


> Long time no see! And here I was trying to be subtle with my "advanced" comment...


 
  
 Long time indeed but I'm still following and pretty much enjoying reading this thread waiting for the next big thing 
  


vapman said:


> Hmmm.... Qfred also an advanced digi?


 
  
 No idea. But it looks like Advance earbuds are rather difficult to source anyway. I think Advance Digital was later rebranded into Advan Digital https://www.advandigital.com/ (or is it just another sister company?) All Advance earbuds I could find are these (some of them already moded/recabled) and some are just for about $10 to $15:
  
 Link to Site no. 1 
 Link to Site no. 2


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> Are your Qfred painted?
> Or do they look like this?
> 
> 
> Yes these are the infamous pajamas of my idsd bl review.


 

 Yep, that how they look like. Silver metallic paint.


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> Long time indeed but I'm still following and pretty much enjoying reading this thread waiting for the next big thing
> 
> 
> No idea. But it looks like Advance earbuds are rather difficult to source anyway. I think Advance Digital was later rebranded into Advan Digital https://www.advandigital.com/ (or is it just another sister company?) All Advance earbuds I could find are these (some of them already moded/recabled) and some are just for about $10 to $15:
> ...


 
 Thanks for that info! Seems like the buds may have been OEM'd though. Still, not sure. These I have might just be similar but not the same.


danneq said:


> Yep, that how they look like. Silver metallic paint.


 
 Thanks so much for the confirmation. I would think I might be on the right path then.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I'm burned out on buying new ear buds... just bought Faareal 64 ohm online though, and KZ ZS3 (IEM).
  
 I'm wondering if I should buy the H/E 150 ohm ear buds for cheap on Ali? Are higher ohm buds that much better?
  
 I'd like to buy some 320 ohm ear buds... but with the 30% money lost in currency conversion from US to Canadian dollars, I think I'm sticking with cheaper phones.


----------



## Danneq

tomasz2d said:


> Long time indeed but I'm still following and pretty much enjoying reading this thread waiting for the next big thing


 

 That next big thing that always lurks behind the corner. After Diomnes I feel pretty satisfied, and my wallet pretty exhausted. So I tihnk I'll pretty much give up the earbud hunting (except for a few small exceptions later this year - yes, Blox flagship, I'm looking at you).


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> That next big thing that always lurks behind the corner. After Diomnes I feel pretty satisfied, and my wallet pretty exhausted. So I tihnk I'll pretty much give up the earbud hunting (except for a few small exceptions later this year - yes, Blox flagship, I'm looking at you).


 
 Oh did you get B320 Danneq? Mine just shipped. I forget if you've gone for any of the new Bloxen though.


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> Thanks so much for the confirmation. I would think I might be on the right path then.


 

 Can you get the driver impedance up to 70ohm?


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> Oh did you get B320 Danneq? Mine just shipped. I forget if you've gone for any of the new Bloxen though.


 

 Only sub 100ohm earbuds for me from now on. I have been thinking about Blox B200 but I'll wait for the upcoming Blox flagship.


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> Can you get the driver impedance up to 70ohm?


 
 I'm gonna measure the driver themselves first, and then see what the stock cable is. The stock cable on these is a piece of junk reminiscent of the old Blox e.g. BE series, so you know what kind of garbage cable i'm talking about.


----------



## weedophile

@vapman that looks like some stock Benjie buds


----------



## Danneq

weedophile said:


> @vapman that looks like some stock Benjie buds


 

 Picture borrowed from Head pie:






 QFred is painted with metallic silver paint. The housing seems to originally be transparent (some paint fell off my pair of QFred and they looked to be transparent beneath the paint - some metallic silver enamel paint from Humbrol worked great to cover up the area with missing paint).


----------



## AkashS04

flamesofarctica said:


> Haven't noticed Monk+ being all that tangly moreso than any other...Anyway for a cheap bassy earbud, RY4S or Qian39, both easily found on Ali. The TY HP32S I really couldn't bring myself to recommend, it's too harsh sounding to my ears and more like a punishment...But that's with the music I like, and how it sounds to me.. you'll only know for yourself when you try them if they're what you're looking for. For the level of bass you're looking for, maybe earbuds just won't cut it for you?


 
 So you are saying that RY4S or Qian39 is much better than TY-Hi-Z 32S in terms of Boomy, Heart Shaking and Warm sound and I should consider them instead of TY-32S? Correct? Is it available on other site as AliExpress will take 45 days to deliver them. I am also considering EM3 again as last time when I bought them, I listen to them on iPod Nano 7th Gen which is a crap. I have Nano 1G now. Unfortunately, I returned the buds but they lost and I lost money as well


----------



## Pulpfiction

I can't speak for the RY4S as I never heard those, but I have 2 pairs of Qian39. While they have a decent amount of bass, the quality of bass is very low. Don't expect impact from beats, it's very loose. I like the Qian39, and I think it works well for older recordings of bands, gives bass guitars some meat, fleshes out the sound.I like to hear a decent subbass presence when listening to anything. With modern recordings I think Qian39 really falls flat, and also with electronic music. For bassy cheap earbuds, try HE150 sold by Penon. It's more, but still only 14$ and that includes a sturdy pouch. The bass quality is MUCH better than any other budget buds I tried, and I tried a few . Out of the box they're nice, vocals a bit thin / recessed sounding but nice bass. If you EQ up the mids (I did by ear listening to music I was familiar with) - I gave it a good bump between 1 and 4K, and it fixed the big shortcoming of these buds for me. Also, if you really like bass, they take a LOT of bass EQ, you can really crank out decent subbass on these and they extend well. Quality of bass is much higher than Monk v1 (which had much better bass than Monk+ imo) and TY32v1, faster, more, and can be pushed WAY further before distorting. My EQ is kinda like this:       \_-_      
  
 Really digging these, hope more people take the plunge because I'm curious if others hear the same I'm hearing (budget champ, though not for *everything*).


----------



## AkashS04

How are they in terms of build quality. I have Monk+ and I did not find them comfortable also. Build quality is not good and they look like cheap earbuds.


----------



## DBaldock9

akashs04 said:


> How are they in terms of build quality. I have Monk+ and I did not find them comfortable also. Build quality is not good and they look like cheap earbuds.


 
 How much did you pay for Monk+?
 If it wasn't very much, then they _are_ cheap earbuds...


----------



## Townyj

akashs04 said:


> How are they in terms of build quality. I have Monk+ and I did not find them comfortable also. Build quality is not good and they look like cheap earbuds.


 
  
 Confused by this comment... The build quality is pretty darn good for a $5 earbud.


----------



## Pulpfiction

They use the same shell as Monk+ (Sennheiser MX sumfin shell  ) - at first they were uncomfortable for me too after a while. If you're willing to stick with it, that does get better with time (as someone advised me when I tried Monk v1 a while back, and it turned out to be true).
  
 Apart from that, build quality is better. I had no probs with Monk+ shell or cable on the bud side, but the plugs usually don't last with me. The HE150 has a very beefy yet compact, functional strain relief - mine have had some abuse already and they're holding up great. I probably have between 20 and 30 hrs on mine now.


----------



## notamethlab

akashs04 said:


> How are they in terms of build quality. I have Monk+ and I did not find them comfortable also. Build quality is not good and they look like cheap earbuds.




You're kidding right?


----------



## Ira Delphic

notamethlab said:


> akashs04 said:
> 
> 
> > How are they in terms of build quality. I have Monk+ and I did not find them comfortable also. Build quality is not good and they look like cheap earbuds.
> ...


 
  
 He's not kidding, and take in the context of his other posts.


----------



## AkashS04

notamethlab said:


> You're kidding right?


 
 Definitely not. I ordered $3.5 earbud with them (some rmei earbud). They were much better in terms of build quality but sadly one of the earbud speaker is no longer working so they are useless now  But my point is that build quality and feel was surely much much better than Monk+.


----------



## rkw

akashs04 said:


> They were much better in terms of build quality but sadly one of the earbud speaker is no longer working so they are useless now


 
  
 Well, that says something about its real build quality.


----------



## gobin

akashs04 said:


> Definitely not. I ordered $3.5 earbud with them (some rmei earbud). They were much better in terms of build quality but sadly one of the earbud speaker is no longer working so they are useless now  But my point is that build quality and feel was surely much much better than Monk+.



you can't have everything with just $5. If you're after sound quality only, then here you go Monk+, with not so great Build quality and accessories.
BTW, Apple earbuds look cheap in comparison to Monk+ IMO.


----------



## ozkan

From my earbud collection AKG K319 has the best vocals and treble presentation. It's also the clearest sounding of all and made me hear some details in songs that I've never heard before with my other earbuds. Especially the treble is so addictive and never gets harsh or sibilant even on old recordings. The bass is on the thin side and lacking a bit omph for my tastes. It is more of a midbass than subbass but represent it in a very natural way and could be fixed to a degree by eq'ing the bass.

However they are huge and the volume slider on the cable tends to pull the earbuds as it is bulky and heavy but I've learned to live with that.

So I want to ask you guys if there is any earphone that sounds the same or better than AKG K319 with a bit more bass and comfort of course. Any recommendations?


----------



## ATi7500

pulpfiction said:


> I can't speak for the RY4S as I never heard those, but I have 2 pairs of Qian39. While they have a decent amount of bass, the quality of bass is very low. Don't expect impact from beats, it's very loose. I like the Qian39, and I think it works well for older recordings of bands, gives bass guitars some meat, fleshes out the sound.I like to hear a decent subbass presence when listening to anything. With modern recordings I think Qian39 really falls flat, and also with electronic music. For bassy cheap earbuds, try HE150 sold by Penon. It's more, but still only 14$ and that includes a sturdy pouch. The bass quality is MUCH better than any other budget buds I tried, and I tried a few . Out of the box they're nice, vocals a bit thin / recessed sounding but nice bass. If you EQ up the mids (I did by ear listening to music I was familiar with) - I gave it a good bump between 1 and 4K, and it fixed the big shortcoming of these buds for me. Also, if you really like bass, they take a LOT of bass EQ, you can really crank out decent subbass on these and they extend well. Quality of bass is much higher than Monk v1 (which had much better bass than Monk+ imo) and TY32v1, faster, more, and can be pushed WAY further before distorting. My EQ is kinda like this:       \_-_
> 
> Really digging these, hope more people take the plunge because I'm curious if others hear the same I'm hearing (budget champ, though not for *everything*).


 
  
 Agree with you on the Qian39 bass quality. I much prefer Qian25 and Philips SHE3800 on that area AND on overall sound presentation. RY4S should arrive soon, so I can compare them too.


----------



## golov17

ozkan said:


> From my earbud collection AKG K319 has the best vocals and treble presentation. It's also the clearest sounding of all and made me hear some details in songs that I've never heard before with my other earbuds. Especially the treble is so addictive and never gets harsh or sibilant even on old recordings. The bass is on the thin side and lacking a bit omph for my tastes. It is more of a midbass than subbass but represent it in a very natural way and could be fixed to a degree by eq'ing the bass.
> 
> However they are huge and the volume slider on the cable tends to pull the earbuds as it is bulky and heavy but I've learned to live with that.
> 
> So I want to ask you guys if there is any earphone that sounds the same or better than AKG K319 with a bit more bass and comfort of course. Any recommendations?


 k326?


----------



## ozkan

akashs04 said:


> Definitely not. I ordered $3.5 earbud with them (some rmei earbud). They were much better in terms of build quality but sadly one of the earbud speaker is no longer working so they are useless now  But my point is that build quality and feel was surely much much better than Monk+.




I have several Monks and I couldn't break any of them yet and they are all working. I think they are very robust and high quality when you consider the price and above. Easily worth $50-100 in my book.


----------



## To.M

I saw Qian25 for below 4usd and could not stop myself from buying them, it feels good to start waiting for the slow boat again...my last purchase was on 11.11


----------



## Ira Delphic

ozkan said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The SQ of the Monk+ is debatable (most people like it), but I think we can agree that the build quality is superb for the price. The cable is thick copper, unlike the thin copper in other similar priced earbuds. The shell is pretty standard, and the plug is very decent. It works great with the finicky jack on my V10. I have 3 pairs. No problems. And the ones I gifted are still going strong. One of them gets rough use, used every day by a girl that only has that one pair of earbuds and an iPhone and Spotify in constant use!


----------



## AkashS04

ozkan said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  


gobin said:


> you can't have everything with just $5. If you're after sound quality only, then here you go Monk+, with not so great Build quality and accessories.
> BTW, Apple earbuds look cheap in comparison to Monk+ IMO.


 
 Agree that Monk+ has thick and strong wire and build. But when I talk about build quality, I mean by premium finish and comfort which is not there in Monk+. Apple Earbuds look and feel much premium than Monk+. And they are much comfortable in wearing.


----------



## Townyj

akashs04 said:


> Agree that Monk+ has thick and strong wire and build. But when I talk about build quality, I mean by premium finish and comfort which is not there in Monk+. Apple Earbuds look and feel much premium than Monk+. And they are much comfortable in wearing.


 
  
 Each to their own imo... You like Apple Earbuds. Good for you


----------



## gobin

akashs04 said:


> Agree that Monk+ has thick and strong wire and build. But when I talk about build quality, I mean by premium finish and comfort which is not there in Monk+. Apple Earbuds look and feel much premium than Monk+. And they are much comfortable in wearing.



There's no point for me to argue with you about comfort as we most likely have different ears. Aestheticly, yes Apple Earbuds may look premium to you, not for me since Monk have that damn sexy Espresso colo. Fitting wise, Monk+ offer a wide variety of assories to help you with (wings, donut foam and normal foam) but at your own expense of course.


----------



## AkashS04

townyj said:


> Each to their own imo... You like Apple Earbuds. Good for you


 
 They are actually good but the one which is now coming (earpods as well as the one which was updated after Nano 2G or from iPhone 3G/4S) are not good in terms of sound.


----------



## ozkan

akashs04 said:


> They are actually good but the one which is now coming (earpods as well as the one which was updated after Nano 2G or from iPhone 3G/4S) are not good in terms of sound.




Try Philips SHE3800 or Edifier H180. They are much smaller and more comfortable than the Monk+


----------



## AkashS04

ozkan said:


> Try Philips SHE3800 or Edifier H180. They are much smaller and more comfortable than the Monk+


 
 Are they with Thumping, Head and Heart Shaking, and Booming Bass and Warm Sound signature?


----------



## ATi7500

ozkan said:


> Try Philips SHE3800 or Edifier H180. They are much smaller and more comfortable than the Monk+


 
 +1
  
 Also Qian25, its sound signature reminds me a lot of Monk, but it is slightly more energetic


----------



## ATi7500

akashs04 said:


> Are they with Thumping, Head and Heart Shaking, and Booming Bass and Warm Sound signature?


 
 What the hell man, you talk like a PR. Just get them both for less than 10$.


----------



## ozkan

akashs04 said:


> Are they with Thumping, Head and Heart Shaking, and Booming Bass and Warm Sound signature?




I think you are in the wrong thread my friend. You'd better search some IEMs not earphones for that booming head and heart shaking bass.


----------



## AkashS04

ozkan said:


> I think you are in the wrong thread my friend. You'd better search some IEMs not earphones for that booming head and heart shaking bass.


 
 I don't prefer IEMs. Not comfortable. I know that Earbuds will not have shaking head Bass but I wanted max possible and best Bass and Warm among earbuds at reasonable price.


----------



## tintheman

akashs04 said:


> I don't prefer IEMs. Not comfortable. I know that Earbuds will not have shaking head Bass but I wanted max possible and best Bass and Warm among earbuds at reasonable price.


 
 Every few weeks, you will come in and asking the same question and expect new answers. If you don't want to to try any new one, it will be going circles again, please let others to talk about new buds.


----------



## fairx

akashs04 said:


> I don't prefer IEMs. Not comfortable. I know that Earbuds will not have shaking head Bass but I wanted max * possible and best * Bass and Warm * among earbuds* at reasonable price.





TY Hi-Z hp320. With right amp it will drive your brain and * trick * you as if you're in from of live concert bass.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Let me shift the topic a little bit on this Monk+ Vs Apple Buds 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 First off I'm not very good at describing the sound  into words so bear with me. I really enjoy the Vocals on the Monk+. I currently own a Monk+, SHE3800, and Qain39 and prefers the Vocals of the Monk+ more. I want to see if My feeling for the Monks are right especially the vocals. I feel like the monk+'s vocal is centered / surround compared to the other two buds, where it is more forward or upfront to the ear? That being said, I'm looking for a step up from the Monk+ w/ similar Vocal trend? Nothing Harsh, something I can listen to hours. Price range $130? or maybe $150?
  
 Would you say the Asura 2.0 & Zen 2.0 are similar to the Monk+ in term of Vocals? 
  
 btw: I sleep w/ my Monk+, While my Apple Bud died after a Week.


----------



## clee290

I still use my Apple EarPods that I got with my iPhone 5 over 4 years ago. 
  
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## ozkan

midnightempest said:


> Let me shift the topic a little bit on this Monk+ Vs Apple Buds
> 
> First off I'm not very good at describing the sound  into words so bear with me. I really enjoy the Vocals on the Monk+. I currently own a Monk+, SHE3800, and Qain39 and prefers the sound of the Monk+ more. I want to see if My feeling for the Monks are right especially the vocals. I feel like the monk+'s vocal is centered / surround compared to the other two buds, where it is more forward or upfront to the ear? That being said, I'm looking for a step up from the Monk+ w/ similar Vocals? Nothing Harsh, something I can listen to hours. Price range $130? or maybe $150?
> 
> ...




What kind of improvement are you expecting to gain over the Monk+?


----------



## mochill

akashs04 said:


> ozkan said:
> 
> 
> > I think you are in the wrong thread my friend. You'd better search some IEMs not earphones for that booming head and heart shaking bass.
> ...


heavenly sounds dub


----------



## vapman

pulpfiction said:


> I can't speak for the RY4S as I never heard those, but I have 2 pairs of Qian39. While they have a decent amount of bass, the quality of bass is very low. Don't expect impact from beats, it's very loose. I like the Qian39, and I think it works well for older recordings of bands, gives bass guitars some meat, fleshes out the sound.I like to hear a decent subbass presence when listening to anything. With modern recordings I think Qian39 really falls flat, and also with electronic music. For bassy cheap earbuds, try HE150 sold by Penon. It's more, but still only 14$ and that includes a sturdy pouch. The bass quality is MUCH better than any other budget buds I tried, and I tried a few . Out of the box they're nice, vocals a bit thin / recessed sounding but nice bass. If you EQ up the mids (I did by ear listening to music I was familiar with) - I gave it a good bump between 1 and 4K, and it fixed the big shortcoming of these buds for me. Also, if you really like bass, they take a LOT of bass EQ, you can really crank out decent subbass on these and they extend well. Quality of bass is much higher than Monk v1 (which had much better bass than Monk+ imo) and TY32v1, faster, more, and can be pushed WAY further before distorting. My EQ is kinda like this:       \_-_
> 
> Really digging these, hope more people take the plunge because I'm curious if others hear the same I'm hearing (budget champ, though not for *everything*).


 
 I meant to ask penon to add one of these to my DHL express shipment coming now, but I forgot to.
  
 Maybe one day i'll have to send you what i've done to a qian39 driver, and will have to hear if the he150 is still superior on bass... all i can say is you may not believe you're hearing qian39 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it's like Edifier H180 before Demun or Edimun.


----------



## flamesofarctica

akashs04 said:


> So you are saying that RY4S or Qian39 is much better than TY-Hi-Z 32S in terms of Boomy, Heart Shaking and Warm sound and I should consider them instead of TY-32S? Correct? Is it available on other site as AliExpress will take 45 days to deliver them. I am also considering EM3 again as last time when I bought them, I listen to them on iPod Nano 7th Gen which is a crap. I have Nano 1G now. Unfortunately, I returned the buds but they lost and I lost money as well




No, I was just saying they're worth considering if you want something bassy relative to other budget earbuds. It will always be limited to some extent, it's like buying a sieve but looking for one that doesn't leak too much.



akashs04 said:


> Definitely not. I ordered $3.5 earbud with them (some rmei earbud). They were much better in terms of build quality but sadly one of the earbud speaker is no longer working so they are useless now  But my point is that build quality and feel was surely much much better than Monk+.




Taking the same analogy my freshly purchased leak-free sieve really looks the part with a shiny chrome finish, but it's still useless.


----------



## AkashS04

flamesofarctica said:


> No, I was just saying they're worth considering if you want something bassy relative to other budget earbuds. It will always be limited to some extent, it's like buying a sieve but looking for one that doesn't leak too much.
> Taking the same analogy my freshly purchased leak-free sieve really looks the part with a shiny chrome finish, but it's still useless.


 
 I cannot spend a lot on Earbuds. So needs to buy one or may be two within $20-25 range and that's all. That's why I am ensuring that I am going to buy what is the best in this range and in terms of performance as well. Just yesterday only I have paid $750 for hospital bill.


----------



## notamethlab

akashs04 said:


> I cannot spend a lot on Earbuds. So needs to buy one or may be two within $20-25 range and that's all. That's why I am ensuring that I am going to buy what is the best in this range and in terms of performance as well. Just yesterday only I have paid $750 for hospital bill.



You've gotten your answer plenty of times. she3800 qian39 or e808+


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

> midnightempest said:
> 
> 
> > Let me shift the topic a little bit on this Monk+ Vs Apple Buds
> ...


 
  
  
 As much as I can for the Price, I'm exploring at the moment. Maybe better sound stage, nicer Bass ? Whats important is the _same or similar sense of Vocals_ as the Monk+ & Isn't Harsh to the ear.


----------



## AkashS04

Then I guess I should order Qian39 and TY Z32S and might be EM3 as well.


----------



## ozkan

midnightempest said:


> As much as I can for the Price, I'm exploring at the moment. Maybe better sound stage, nicer Bass ? Whats important is the _same or similar sense of Vocals_ as the Monk+ & Isn't Harsh to the ear.




http://www.head-fi.org/t/822327/diy-earbuds/30


----------



## barbazz

I've been a lurker for some time, but I guess it's time to say all of you: thanks!
  
 It started out when I realized (for the 100th time) that my old AKG K309 was the most uncomfortable earbud ever. So, what should I buy to replace them? Google is your friend and I found Head-Fi. I read this amazing thread from the beginning and started to source some earbuds in order to understand what would be more suitable to my taste. After 11 earbuds (a couple more in the mail) I'm hooked. It's been a journey to listen and enjoy Monk+, Qian39, TY-32, E-808+, SHE3800, PT15, RX-1 and all others that I've learn from you and pair them with my favorite music. I even dived in the DYI world. I took 10 seconds to destroy my Awei ES10 when it arrived (tried to smooth the cable...) and today I recabled it! (would share a picture with you but I haven't permissions yet).
  
 So, thanks, and let's find the next great earbud.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

barbazz said:


> I even dived in the DYI world. I took 10 seconds to destroy my Awei ES10 when it arrived (tried to smooth the cable...) and today I recabled it! (would share a picture with you but I haven't permissions yet).


 
 Did you watch any videos somewhere to learn to re-cable an ear bud, or are you just naturally good with that type of thing and did it yourself?
  
 What were your results like before and after


----------



## flamesofarctica

midnightempest said:


> As much as I can for the Price, I'm exploring at the moment. Maybe better sound stage, nicer Bass ? Whats important is the _same or similar sense of Vocals_ as the Monk+ & Isn't Harsh to the ear.




I can only comment obviously on earbuds I own, but those that give me a sense of improvement over the Monk+ whilst retaining the qualities I like about it, are the TY HP320, TY HP400S, VE Asura 2 and Zen 2.

The Zen2 I'd say is quite unique in the way the vocals are somehow the focus without it all sounding upfront, and with it being used foamless is a bit of a unique experience in itself. The Asura 2 is good for being just good at everything overall and how it can keep up with complex music, it's not massively bassy but what it does it does perfectly.

The two TY earbuds are excellent and a bit less expensive than those two, I was really surprised when I first heard the TY HP320 just how much I liked it, and it's the least expensive earbud that I'd class as a definite upgrade. The TYHP400S is similar, a bit more bass, I really like it from what I've tried so far. Both give a great level of detail without being too 'up front' or 'in your face', quite laid back and very listenable, zero harshness whatsoever. Both have pretty gorgeous cables as well in my opinion, not massively relevant but nice :-D

Aside from those four, the TY HP650 is really impressive, a great all rounder and hard to fault in any area.

I'm not great at explaining the difference between earbuds, but just speaking as a big fan of the Monk+ above the other budget earbuds, who really isn't a fan of any harshness in any area, so who may share similar sound preferences.

All the above except the Asura 2 need a bit of power, I use them on the Walnut else use an amp. The Asura is by far the easiest to drive and will work well with pretty much anything, but shines further if amped.


----------



## barbazz

laughmoredaily said:


> Did you watch any videos somewhere to learn to re-cable an ear bud, or are you just naturally good with that type of thing and did it yourself?


 

 It was a surprisingly easy task. I've just open the shells with a blade. The drivers were not glued so it was easy to work it out. I only had to check the color code for left and right cables as the original ones were both blue... If you have used a soldering iron before you are good to go (well, at least with these Awei, other earbuds might pose some other challenges.)


----------



## waynes world

midnightempest said:


> btw: *I sleep w/ my Monk+*, While my Apple Bud died after a Week.


 
  
 And here I thought I was the only one. Somehow the Monks continue to survive my nightly advances


----------



## gobin

waynes world said:


> And here I thought I was the only one. Somehow the Monks continue to survive my nightly advances :veryevil:



Lol, thought I'm the lucky one. Been doing a considerable amount of time, still going strong. Though I'm more careful now. They've become too valuable for me.


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> DBaldock9 earbuds are easier that what you listed so i think you would be okay doing it!
> 
> I'm happy to say though, my DIY CampFred is working beautifully... Need to try different cables with these drivers but not bad if i do say myself...







vapman said:


> Hmmm.... Qfred also an advanced digi?







fabi said:


> Lol Oh yeah I remember that now, these are/were pretty famous in Indonesia.




Sorry to bring up old topic. Ye, they used "advance" driver. Some local brand that pretty famous here.
But i must confirm here that, lets say there's 2 batch of this driver that sounds pretty different.
The first one that came up with advance vois (DAP) and because of high demand, they reproduced it massively (without DAP). 
Unfortunately the second batch have bad QC and sounds not as good as the first one.
And i heard it too, some distortion at high volume level. That's why i'm not impressed before because i usually hear my set up loudly (at least 70% vol.lv).

And for the CF QC issue that i said before, i think it only happened on early batch. Never heard any complain or discussion about QC problem on latest batch. Maybe they fixed them and maybe i should give it a try at least one more time before decide that it's truly not the sound that i like


----------



## DBaldock9

purplesun said:


> Ear buds are easier than DB connectors soldering. The solder pads are further apart & don't require special-sized tips. I use 30watt mostly, and have used as high as 60watts but you have to be fast. IMO, it's one of the easier solder jobs to perform, just pre-tin everything first. Hardest bit is keeping the voice coils from separating while opening the bud, other than that the cost-benefit of cable-swapping is definitely worth it. Look for cable-wires between 28AWG to 24AWG and outer diameter less than 1.65mm (ideally less than 1.6mm).


 
  
 Thanks for the info, and encouragement.
  
 Is 1.6mm - 1.65mm the size of the opening in the earbuds?
 So, if I'm twisting two wires (+) and (-) together, they need to be less than that size, in combined width / thickness?
  
 On AliExpress, I'm seeing a variety of 7N Copper OCC wires, with different stranding and OD options.
 Looks like the most strands I can find in a 0.8mm OD wire, is 48 (for a more flexible cable assembly), in this bulk wire from DIY Earphone Tribe Store [ https://www.aliexpress.com/item/shinning-colorful-7N-occ-copper-48core-OD-0-8mm-Price-is-for-6meters/32792411797.html ]
  
 In one of the listings, I see this comment, "_Normally 10m long bulk cable can custom 1pcs 1.2m 8wires earphone or headphone cable._" - so I should need ~5m of bulk wire, to braid a 1.2m 4wire cable.
  
 Just need to search for a source of quality 2.5mm TRRS plugs, at a reasonable price.


----------



## purplesun

@DBaldock9
 Yeah, typical earbud's cable entrance diameter. So, halved that if you are braiding 2 wires into the earbud (<0.8mm). But if the cable is little too thick, just sand it down 2-inches from the ends. Or strip off 2-inch of the insulator & re-sleeve with thinner heatshrinks at the very worse.
  
 Common strand diameters are around 0.05mm or 0.06mm. Typical strand-count for budget earbuds is 14. IMO, anything above 4N (99.99%) purity has negligible sound effect from improved purity.
  
 Slightly thicker gauge than stock cable usually have noticeable effect (good or bad), but over-doing the thickness usually leads to imbalance of frequency response (usually bass bloats too much).
  
 I wouldn't trust cheap china cable specifications as far as I can throw a stick. So, I would recommend just get 1 or 2 cable to test first before buying some more from the same seller. And QC variances between different batches of the same exact product can also add to the "fun" of DIYing with Ali/taobao parts.


----------



## vapman

dbaldock9 said:


> Thanks for the info, and encouragement.
> 
> Is 1.6mm - 1.65mm the size of the opening in the earbuds?
> So, if I'm twisting two wires (+) and (-) together, they need to be less than that size, in combined width / thickness?
> ...


 
 Gonna assume you have some decent gear to work with! I use a hakko 888 (not the digital one) and set it a bit below 750f/400c. you only need to contact the pad for a moment.
  
 If you pre tin your wires you can be done in a few minutes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I also echo purplesun's suggestion to buy a few first and try them out, dimensions given are rarely totally exact... 
  
 P.S. I bought some copper litz on ebay, $16 shipped for 100 feet. Also 0.8mm od, 48 strands. It is great wire, but needs protection as it's too delicate to not be reinforced. (it is the kind of wire that bends easily but is fine when protected) I will be happy to share the link with you if you want.


----------



## luedriver

after reading a few posts I feel like sharing that I too use my earpods that I got 4 years ago with my iphone 5 although I rarely use them
  
 I have a pair of philips she2670 that were bought around the same time and I still use them as well but with full foams instead of the plastic oem cover, the cable has got a bit stiffer over the years
  
 I just bought some awei es10 earbuds from ali, have no idea if they are good, when reading posts I always look up the earbud mentioned to know what is being talked about and saw that it was only a few AUD so I bought them
  
  
 I also had bought some philips she3010, no reason why, on amazon it mentions that people frequently buy them with the philips she2100, that I also have, so maybe they complement each other, or maybe they have the exact same sound, idk, either way they cost me only 7AUD
  
 other than that I also ordered a pair of nokia in ears as I have never heard how they sound, but that is a topic for another thread...


----------



## notamethlab

WORTH THE WAIT! Yinman 500 ohm finally arrived. Unboxing these was a delight for me, the wooden box and pouch are a nice touch. I've been listening to these for about an hour and they're very nice sounding buds. So much clarity, detail and separation. I find these similar to the edimun v3 but with more separation and a bit more forward mids. Bass has a nice punch as well, not basshead levels but it makes itself noted. 

I am impressed with these ootb, excited to hear how these mature.


----------



## ATi7500

akashs04 said:


> Then I guess I should order Qian39 and TY Z32S and might be EM3 as well.




Philips SHE3800, 3$
Edifier H180
Qian25

I don't think qian39 is warm at all. It's detailed but kinda rough. Better for rock or old recordings than modern music.


----------



## barbazz

luedriver said:


> I just bought some awei es10 earbuds from ali, have no idea if they are good, when reading posts I always look up the earbud mentioned to know what is being talked about and saw that it was only a few AUD so I bought them


 
  
 I'm probably guilty for that  You will not regret for sure. Great bass and good detail overall for less than 3€. (well, in my case, 5€ with  recabling...)


----------



## luedriver

barbazz said:


> I'm probably guilty for that  You will not regret for sure. Great bass and good detail overall for less than 3€. (well, in my case, 5€ with  recabling...)


 
 yeah, that was the post, had to look up several sites just to see how they look like without foams, I hate it when they do that like they have something to hide...
  

 or I could've just searched for it in the images
  
 when first looking for them, for a second, I thought they were aiwa


----------



## petan970

notamethlab said:


> WORTH THE WAIT! Yinman 500 ohm finally arrived. Unboxing these was a delight for me, the wooden box and pouch are a nice touch. I've been listening to these for about an hour and they're very nice sounding buds. So much clarity, detail and separation. I find these similar to the edimun v3 but with more separation and a bit more forward mids. Bass has a nice punch as well, not basshead levels but it makes itself noted.
> 
> I am impressed with these ootb, excited to hear how these mature.




Thanks for first impressions. Does standard DAP (e.g. xDuoo 3) have enough power to drive Yinman 500 without additional amp?


----------



## ATi7500

Can anyone give a brief comparison between Philips SHE3800 and Edifier H180? 
  
 I have had the H180 in the past but I don't remember how they sound anymore. They look IDENTICAL to the SHE3800, and I love the SHE3800. 
  
 However, the Philips costs half of the Edifier, someone can motivate that price difference?


----------



## Nachash

ati7500 said:


> Can anyone give a brief comparison between Philips SHE3800 and Edifier H180?
> 
> I have had the H180 in the past but I don't remember how they sound anymore. They look IDENTICAL to the SHE3800, and I love the SHE3800.
> 
> However, the Philips costs half of the Edifier, someone can motivate that price difference?


 

 They use the same shell, that's why they look identical (plus the fact that the philips isn't a philips)


----------



## ATi7500

nachash said:


> They use the same shell, that's why they look identical (plus the fact that the philips isn't a philips)


 
 Thought so, hence I asked about differences in sound/drivers


----------



## barbazz

Just realized that I already can post images. Here's my recabled Awei:


----------



## vapman

That's an awesome cable @barbazz . Did you make it?
  
 Let's follow that up with more DIY buds 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 So guess what these are?
  

  
_And before you ask... they have the most Thumping, Head and Heart Shaking, and Booming Bass and Warm Sound Signature sound of any earbuds in the world._


----------



## barbazz

vapman said:


> That's an awesome cable @barbazz . Did you make it?
> 
> Let's follow that up with more DIY buds
> 
> ...


 
  
 Not that skilled yet 
  
 Bought them here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-1-2m-Gold-plated-Line-type-3-5mm-3-pole-Jack-LC-OFC-Headphone-Audio/32788883341.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.AMAmZC
  
 BTW, the black and red is also very nice. Maybe a good option for recabling my E808+. I'm tired of the J cable....
  
 Is that an Awei pairing with the Qian39?


----------



## vapman

barbazz said:


> Not that skilled yet
> 
> Bought them here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-1-2m-Gold-plated-Line-type-3-5mm-3-pole-Jack-LC-OFC-Headphone-Audio/32788883341.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.AMAmZC
> 
> ...


 
 Braided OCC copper on the Qian39, some very special bass heavy formula copper on the white ones.
  
 I just threw black and red on some buds for someone...


----------



## edsel400

notamethlab said:


> WORTH THE WAIT! Yinman 500 ohm finally arrived. Unboxing these was a delight for me, the wooden box and pouch are a nice touch. I've been listening to these for about an hour and they're very nice sounding buds. So much clarity, detail and separation. I find these similar to the edimun v3 but with more separation and a bit more forward mids. Bass has a nice punch as well, not basshead levels but it makes itself noted.
> 
> I am impressed with these ootb, excited to hear how these mature.



Good to hear your first impression 
Mine is on the way and very excited. I wish xduoo x3 can drive this without the need of any amp. I have an A3 but i find it bulky when stacked up.

Cheers


----------



## Saoshyant

@mochill The Zen 1 arrived safe and sound, and sounds marvelous.  It feels like it'd be a good compliment to the CampFred so far, but I'm just listening to my first song on it.


----------



## SuperMAG

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-2m-Gold-plated-Line-type-3-5mm-3-pole-Jack-LC-OFC-DIY-Headphone-Audio/32764439785.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.321.rJ0dTN
  
 is that cable a good match for qian39 and sony 808+.


----------



## vapman

supermag said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-2m-Gold-plated-Line-type-3-5mm-3-pole-Jack-LC-OFC-DIY-Headphone-Audio/32764439785.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.321.rJ0dTN
> 
> is that cable a good match for qian39 and sony 808+.


 
 Yeah I would say so, at least worth a shot.


----------



## SuperMAG

can you tell me if there is a big difference in sound when u recabled ur qian39. and what was the difference. thanks you.


----------



## vapman

supermag said:


> can you tell me if there is a big difference in sound when u recabled ur qian39. and what was the difference. thanks you.


 
 I have put a half dozen different cables on qian39.
 No two sounded alike.
 My recommendation, get  some backup qian39's, cause you will break at least one if its your first time modding, and don't buy more than one of any cable until you've tried some stuff.
  
 Was there a big difference in sound..... yes. I did a couple other things too but it's like h180 vs. demun/edimun.
  
 I am listening to some Lee Marrow and the bass power makes me want to cry tears of joy.


----------



## Saoshyant

A silly part of me really wants to see https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/5NlC-OFC-copper-single-crystal-earphone-super-soft-wire-fever-repair-upgrade-Metal-plug-ie800-wire/1850191_32613884225.html on an earbud given it's rainbow nature.


----------



## SuperMAG

i have some broken earbuds here i will experiment on it first, then once i get the hang of it, i will re-cable the qian39. did you try the 808+ recalling, what about that, was there also big difference.


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> A silly part of me really wants to see https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/5NlC-OFC-copper-single-crystal-earphone-super-soft-wire-fever-repair-upgrade-Metal-plug-ie800-wire/1850191_32613884225.html on an earbud given it's rainbow nature.


 
 Looks just like the Apple G3 era power cables.... so.... i'm gonna order one and let you know how it sounds.


----------



## Saoshyant

@vapman Sweet, look forward to finding out if it's at all decent.


----------



## vapman

supermag said:


> i have some broken earbuds here i will experiment on it first, then once i get the hang of it, i will re-cable the qian39. did you try the 808+ recalling, what about that, was there also big difference.


 
 Yes  to both but the 808+ is like nightmare mode. Not joking.


----------



## purplesun

supermag said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-2m-Gold-plated-Line-type-3-5mm-3-pole-Jack-LC-OFC-DIY-Headphone-Audio/32764439785.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.321.rJ0dTN
> 
> is that cable a good match for qian39 and sony 808+.


 

 Tried them on E808+. Bigger bass but, imo, not overly bloated & cleaner sound overall. But, iirc, the treble was a bit more restraint than stock. Good & cheap starting point for cable modding,


----------



## alizeofeniquito

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/T6-In-Ear-Headset-Earbud-Metal-Earphone-Super-Clear-Headset-Handsfree-call-For-iphone7-6-5s/817807_32791761223.html?spm=2114.12010615.0.0.B5VjXs


----------



## Danneq

saoshyant said:


> @mochill The Zen 1 arrived safe and sound, and sounds marvelous.  It feels like it'd be a good compliment to the CampFred so far, but I'm just listening to my first song on it.


 

 How would you compare Zen 1 and Edimun V3 rhodium?


----------



## Saoshyant

danneq said:


> How would you compare Zen 1 and Edimun V3 rhodium?


 
  
 I'll need some time before I can make that comparison.  Also had 2 other budget earbuds arrive, so took a little time to write up some brief impressions with them first.


----------



## Danneq

saoshyant said:


> I'll need some time before I can make that comparison.  Also had 2 other budget earbuds arrive, so took a little time to write up some brief impressions with them first.


 


 No rush since I don't have any of those 2 any more. I'm just curious if anyone else would think that V3 rhodium has got a similar type of sound as Zen 1 (but in a sort of smaller scale...).


----------



## Saoshyant

I suspect I'll agree with that assessment.  The bass on both is spectacular, as well as a strong amount of detail, and a very engaging presentation.


----------



## Danneq

saoshyant said:


> I suspect I'll agree with that assessment.  The bass on both is spectacular, as well as a strong amount of detail, and a very engaging presentation.


 


 Zen 1 is by far the most energetic pair of earbuds I have heard. Still they have great detail. My decision to only go with low impedance earbuds led me to trade them back to the original owner for my old pair of Zen 2. Might sell those later, but I'll hang on to them while waiting for VE Nirvana to be released. Don't know if there is a point in trading in the Zen 2 for Nirvana, or if the Nirvana will be as expensive as I've heard rumored, so that they'll be expensive even after the Zen 2 trade-in discount...


----------



## Saoshyant

Yeah.  I wonder if Lee will be able to give any kind of estimate on cost for that.  I'm tempted to do the trade in as well, but we'll have to see how costly it becomes.


----------



## Danneq

I heard an amount from someone who asked Lee. It was however so high that I'm not sure if Lee was joking with that person...


----------



## notamethlab

petan970 said:


> Thanks for first impressions. Does standard DAP (e.g. xDuoo 3) have enough power to drive Yinman 500 without additional amp?



I can't answer that sorry. My best guess would be that you would need an amp to properly drive them.


----------



## AkashS04

ati7500 said:


> Philips SHE3800, 3$
> Edifier H180
> Qian25
> 
> I don't think qian39 is warm at all. It's detailed but kinda rough. Better for rock or old recordings than modern music.


 
 So you mean no Bass in Qian39? How abt TY-Hi Z 32S? Does it has sub bass? Or the above ones you mentioned?


----------



## AkashS04

SHE3800 is in-ear and not Earbud.


----------



## AkashS04

How is Edifier P190 in compare to H180 in terms o Bass and Warm sound signature?


----------



## notamethlab

akashs04 said:


> SHE3800 is in-ear and not Earbud.




https://www.fasttech.com/product/1460600-philips-she3800-3-5mm-earphone


----------



## AkashS04

notamethlab said:


> https://www.fasttech.com/product/1460600-philips-she3800-3-5mm-earphone


 
 Thanks. Seems the one which comes on search is different. That is also priced at $16.


----------



## AkashS04

One more question, which earbud cushions you people buy or order which are not very expensive but good quality as well?


----------



## Saoshyant

@Danneq @vapman Well, been listening to Zen 1 for a couple albums now, and this thing is simply euphonic.  I just feel like I get lost in the music.  All I can say is wow.


----------



## ATi7500

akashs04 said:


> How is Edifier P190 in compare to H180 in terms o Bass and Warm sound signature?


 
 H190 is worse than H180 in my opinion. According to vapman H180 is also inferior to SHE3800.


----------



## AkashS04

ati7500 said:


> H190 is worse than H180 in my opinion. According to vapman H180 is also inferior to SHE3800.


 
 Ok. So 3800 is 1st choice and H180 nd one. And TY-Hi Z 32s and Qian39 ruled out. Right?


----------



## ATi7500

akashs04 said:


> Ok. So 3800 is 1st choice and H180 nd one. And TY-Hi Z 32s and Qian39 ruled out. Right?


 
 As I stated multiple times, Qian25 and SHE3800 are valid choices for your tastes. Less than 10$ for both. I haven't tried TY-Hi Z 32s yet.


----------



## weedophile

akashs04 said:


> Ok. So 3800 is 1st choice and H180 nd one. And TY-Hi Z 32s and Qian39 ruled out. Right?


 

 Dude, just get some and try. The peeps here have already given u those options to choose from. I know u cant spend too much on buds but seeing u asking for like 10 consecutive posts gets into me for some reason.
  





  
 Peace out


----------



## AkashS04

weedophile said:


> Dude, just get some and try. The peeps here have already given u those options to choose from. I know u cant spend too much on buds but seeing u asking for like 10 consecutive posts gets into me for some reason.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Agree. Let me order cpl of them from the list. I guess SHE3800, Qian25 an TY-Z 32s can be ordered. However, I did not see any review at all from any of the above earbuds except TY-32s (that too short review). That's what is stopping me from ordering them. But I trust the words from you that they all are good, very bassy (rumbling and thumping heart shaking bass) and very warm sound. I found Monk+ with harsh treble even with foams. Also, is there any specific brand of earbud cushions that can be used for better bass and also of good quality?


----------



## Saoshyant

akashs04 said:


> Agree. Let me order cpl of them from the list. I guess SHE3800, Qian25 an TY-Z 32s can be ordered. However, I did not see any review at all from any of the above earbuds except TY-32s (that too short review). That's what is stopping me from ordering them. But I trust the words from you that they all are good, very bassy (rumbling and thumping heart shaking bass) and very warm sound. I found Monk+ with harsh treble even with foams. Also, is there any specific brand of earbud cushions that can be used for better bass and also of good quality?


 
  
 I've never really considered Qian25 to be very bassy, and Awei ES10 will outperform in that respect.  Haven't heard SHE3800 or 32s yet.


----------



## ATi7500

saoshyant said:


> I've never really considered Qian25 to be very bassy, and Awei ES10 will outperform in that respect.  Haven't heard SHE3800 or 32s yet.


 
 It is bassier than Monk+ and Qian39 in my opinion. It has a kind of neutral-warm sound signature. The bass doesn't have lots of impact but it sounds really "full". Very sweet sound overall, and can cover multiple genres. Something I don't feel with the Qian39 (I feel like they're good only with rock music or old recordings)


----------



## chinmie

akashs04 said:


> So you mean no Bass in Qian39? How abt TY-Hi Z 32S? Does it has sub bass? Or the above ones you mentioned?


 
 there's plenty of bass (especially mid low freq) on the qian39, but i think it didn't reach sub bass too much. Ty Hi Z 32s have big sub bass, but not too much mid low freq


----------



## Saoshyant

ati7500 said:


> It is bassier than Monk+ and Qian39 in my opinion. It has a kind of neutral-warm sound signature. The bass doesn't have impact but it sounds really "full". Something I don't feel with the Qian39.


 
  
 I'd still put E808+ & ES10 ahead of all 3 of those in terms of bass.  Sadly the Sony has availability issues of late unless that's been remedied.


----------



## ATi7500

chinmie said:


> there's plenty of bass (especially mid low freq) on the qian39, but i think it didn't reach sub bass too much. Ty Hi Z 32s have big sub bass, but not too much mid low freq


 
 Mid low frequency is not what I call bass. Moreover, if those frequencies are boosted, it sounds more like a "bongo" drum than an actual full rumbling bass.


----------



## AkashS04

chinmie said:


> there's plenty of bass (especially mid low freq) on the qian39, but i think it didn't reach sub bass too much. Ty Hi Z 32s have big sub bass, but not too much mid low freq


 
 So Qian25 has Sub Bass and warmer sound than 39. TY-Z 32s has sub bass too but less than Qian25. Correct?


----------



## AkashS04

ati7500 said:


> Mid low frequency is not what I call bass. Moreover, if those frequencies are boosted, it sounds more like a "bongo" bass than an actual full rumbling bass.


 
 So Qian25 is having Rumbling and Thumping Bass . Correct? And very warm sound? I don't know why there is not a single review on Qian25 anywhere.


----------



## lachancla

Is 20$ a good price for a Monk+/ Fiio EM3 / Phillips SHE3800 / TY-Z 32 (L plug) pack ? (secondhand)
  
 Someone selling this in my country, i haven't any good earbud at the moment. 
  
 I'm not sure about the Fiio's quality...


----------



## ATi7500

saoshyant said:


> I'd still put E808+ & ES10 ahead of all 3 of those in terms of bass.  Sadly the Sony has availability issues of late unless that's been remedied.


 
 I've just put 2 ES10 on my Aliexpress basket 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 2.54€ each seems like there's little to lose!


----------



## weedophile

*Disclaimer:* I am a bass sensitive person so asking me for thumping bass may be ambiguous
  
 I cant say for the TY32S but i have the L plug TY32 and it was full of bass. SHE3800 for me is bright, clear and very very clear. Bass wise it isnt the best, but still decent in my book.
  
 Qian39 on the other hand i think they have better bass. Not sure if that is thumping for you but they do shake my head abit when the bass gets deep.
  
 Overall with 25$ u can get both the Qian39 and SHE3800 if you want to and maybe 2 other buds.
  
 Foam wise u just need to get a better fit on ur buds, perhaps by putting another layer or foam or 2, getting a tighter seal and prevents the bass from leaking out. I cant believe Monk to be thin on bass as for me they sound pretty bassy but i have lost touch with them as they are loaned out to my fren (but my ears and yours are different). If u have rubber ring (which is really rare), you can put one before putting a layer of foam over (credits to @silverfishla's post)
  
 Not entirely sure but the RY4S have been mentioned by a few here that they have pretty good bass performance, you may want to try and share your experience here too. Nice mention would be the Sony MDR E808+ which has no lack of bass but with wires from another planet.
  
 Bro, those mentioned by the peeps here by the other headfiers are pretty safe bet and i can say even if they dont have thumping bass, they will still give some genuinely good experience. There is no best or perfect bud for everyone, and what might be good to me might be **** to u. And last thing your ear and brain gets burnt in after a period of time and you would be used to the sound sig of the earbud over time. Hence give the Monk some time if u havent and it will probably turn out better than what u feel currently.
  
 Cheers


----------



## AkashS04

lachancla said:


> Is 20$ a good price for a Monk+/ Fiio EM3 / Phillips SHE3800 / TY-Z 32 (L plug) pack ?
> 
> Someone selling this in my country, i haven't any good earbud at the moment.
> 
> I'm not sure about the Fiio's quality...


 
 Seems good  Price overall. FiiO EM3 seems to be good one and I used them but sadly without proper using them and due to poor sound quality of iPod 7G, I returned them.


----------



## Saoshyant

ati7500 said:


> I've just put 2 ES10 on my Aliexpress basket
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I know I'm not the only one here that enjoys the ES10, so I hope it suits your tastes.


----------



## ATi7500

weedophile said:


> *Disclaimer:* I am a bass sensitive person so asking me for thumping bass may be ambiguous
> 
> I cant say for the TY32S but i have the L plug TY32 and it was full of bass. SHE3800 for me is bright, clear and very very clear. Bass wise it isnt the best, but still decent in my book.
> 
> ...


 
 If you call SHE3800 bright, what would you say about Edifier H185? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 With the foams provided in the box, SHE3800 sounds pretty warm and detailed to me, that's what makes it a must buy. Bass is not overpowering but it's felt and heard. Plus for 3$ each, why are we even debating whether to buy them or not?


----------



## Saoshyant

lachancla said:


> Is 20$ a good price for a Monk+/ Fiio EM3 / Phillips SHE3800 / TY-Z 32 (L plug) pack ? (secondhand)
> 
> Someone selling this in my country, i haven't any good earbud at the moment.
> 
> I'm not sure about the Fiio's quality...


 
  
 For USD and disregarding shipping cost, you can get the EM3 for around $10, SHE3800 for $4, Hi-Z 32 for $8 & Monk for $5.  For $20 for that set, I'd say it's a good deal.  I haven't tried the EM3 yet, and have the Fiio earbud that came with M3.  It's got some mixed feelings among head-fiers, but almost everything here does.


----------



## weedophile

@ATi7500 i dont have the edifier as it cost twice the price. But yea the SHE3800 is the most ridiculously detailed bud i own at the moment (they are $3.21 on fasttech) and i am always given a pleasant surprise everytime i plug it in. And at $3.21 they come with pretty decent cables (not as good as the Monk+ but still its only $3.21, what do u expect?). Disgusting buds to be honest, terrifying in terms of price ($3.21) to performance. And the best thing is it cost $3.21. Freaking *$3.21!*
  
 They are the first bud in line for mod (i have made another 2 orders) as i have some cables waiting and next up would be the Qian39 and E808+ once i get at least a backup.


----------



## ATi7500

weedophile said:


> @ATi7500 i dont have the edifier as it cost twice the price. But yea the SHE3800 is the most ridiculously detailed bud i own at the moment (they are $3.21 on fasttech) and i am always given a pleasant surprise everytime i plug it in. And at $3.21 they come with pretty decent cables (not as good as the Monk+ but still its only $3.21, what do u expect?). Disgusting buds to be honest, terrifying in terms of price ($3.21) to performance. And the best thing is it cost $3.21. Freaking *$3.21!*
> 
> They are the first bud in line for mod (i have made another 2 orders) as i have some cables waiting and next up would be the Qian39 and E808+ once i get at least a backup.


 
 You might want to specify the meaning of that disgusting haha. Today I'll make another comparison with Monk+, both without foams and with donuts.


----------



## AkashS04

ati7500 said:


> You might want to specify the meaning of that disgusting haha. Today I'll make another comparison with Monk+, both without foams and with donuts.


 
 I will be eagerly waiting for your review and also if you can post your review for Qian25 as well.


----------



## weedophile

@ATi7500
  
 They are just too disgustingly good lmao. Yea i should give my Monk+ another chance to prove itself. Just got my fren's coffee gold Monk+ today and i can finally release my Black Monks from her torment tmr!


----------



## Nachash

So I just need a soldering iron, a bunch of spare cables and some poor earbud to experiment with.
  
 Which one is more prone to improvements?


----------



## DBaldock9

nachash said:


> So I just need a soldering iron, a bunch of spare cables and some poor earbud to experiment with.
> 
> Which one is more prone to improvements?


 

 There are several folks here who have recabled the Qian earbuds.
  
 Maybe try to find budget models that have thin, cheap looking cables.


----------



## Ira Delphic

nachash said:


> So I just need a soldering iron, a bunch of spare cables and some poor earbud to experiment with.
> 
> Which one is more prone to improvements?


 
  
 I feel like buying some $1 earbuds for practice, and not sure if anything learned with those would be helpful for higher end ear earbuds, But it's all talk, I have no spare time for modding earbuds lol!


----------



## Ira Delphic

dbaldock9 said:


> nachash said:
> 
> 
> > So I just need a soldering iron, a bunch of spare cables and some poor earbud to experiment with.
> ...


 
  
 A few months ago I had a friend on the forum re-cable my SHE3800 with a cable and jack from an unused KZ IEM. The quality of the KZ cable/jack was actually pretty decent. I did this because the jack on my LG V10 is finicky and didn't like the SHE3800 jack. I ended up with a thicker cable and good contact on the jack. No perceptible difference in sound quality. There's a photo in the earbud DIY thread.


----------



## rkw

notamethlab said:


> Yinman 500 ohm finally arrived. Unboxing these was a delight for me, the wooden box and pouch are a nice touch.


 
  
 I forgot to upload pics of the box for Yinman 600, which I had written about here. No pouch!
  
 I've had it about 2 weeks. Really love it, and it has become my primary headphone at home on desktop amp (Jotunheim). I'm going to try a balanced cable.


----------



## mochill

saoshyant said:


> @Danneq
> @vapman
> Well, been listening to Zen 1 for a couple albums now, and this thing is simply euphonic.  I just feel like I get lost in the music.  All I can say is wow.


glad your enjoying the beauties


----------



## ATi7500

*SHE3800 vs Qian25 vs Monk+*

Without foams:

Monk+: very bright, almost analytical, but not fatiguing. Soundstage is quite big for an earbud. Midbass to bass is nowhere to be heard. Sound signature is "monitor-like", just without the bass kick. Stereo separation is very good. Almost seems to be listening music through loudspeakers.

SHE3800: even without foams, the midbass thump is clearly there. Highs are rolled off compared to Monk+, and soundstage is pretty narrow. Sound is more boxed but still very detailed. I'd say classic earbud sound signature.

With donut foams:

Monk+: midbass came a bit alive, bass is still nowhere to be found. Even with donuts, Monk+ loses too much highs, but it gains a lot in terms of sound pressure. Sound is now more boxed, similar to SHE3800 with no foams. I think this mainly depends on the ear fit. The monk+ have an awful fit without foams, at least in my ears. Also donuts eliminate the best feature of Monk+: they simply don't sound like speakers anymore.

SHE3800: I'll be short here: RUMBLING AND HEART SHAKING, BASSY BASS OF BASSMAN BASSY. You WANT donuts for these earphones to shine. It's just unbelievable how they can keep the same clarity as without foams. Sound is still boxed but sounds definitely more organic and danceable. These gems might not win any awards for monitoring, but for 3$, you want to have these in your collection. If recabling improves clarity, these are truly ridiculously disgusting (in a good meaning) earbuds.

And in a nutshell, Qian25 sits perfectly between the two. Better clarity than SHE3800 but less bass. Tamed highs compared to Monk+ but very similar soundstage. Maybe even better. The only thing where monk+ shines is its monitor-like sound signature.

Final judgement for my tastes:

Qian25>SHE3800>Monk+

Tests were performed on a Nexus 7 2013, on the notes of Michael Jackson - Billie Jean (320 kbps)


----------



## AkashS04

Looks tempting to me. Is there any other retailer or site which sells this Earbuds? Or only FastTech?


----------



## barbazz

ati7500 said:


> *SHE3800 vs Qian25 vs Monk+*
> 
> Without foams:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Interesting analysis. I have a recurrent foam/no foam dilemma with Monk+. No foams means huge soundstage, foams means a liitle more bass but less detail. So I keep dress/undressing them depending on what I'm listening


----------



## ctaxxxx

rkw said:


> I forgot to upload pics of the box for Yinman 600, which I had written about here. No pouch!
> 
> I've had it about 2 weeks. Really love it, and it has become my primary headphone at home on desktop amp (Jotunheim). I'm going to try a balanced cable.
> 
> _(pictures)_


 
  
 Still really interested in these. I haven't had a high impendence earbud since I sold my Zen 2, and they're a nice looking wood. I might just have to order these now...


----------



## Ira Delphic

golov17 said:


> frederick wang said:
> 
> 
> > sir Golov, how does yinman 500 compare to pt15 in terms of clarity, soundstage, instruments separation?
> ...


 
  
  
 Can you explain what happened? Did volume have anything to do with it? Were they modded?
  
 Notice we don't hear anything about the graphene/graphite driver after the initial release flurry. I think just marketing...


----------



## golov17

ira delphic said:


> Can you explain what happened? Did volume have anything to do with it? Were they modded?
> 
> Notice we don't hear anything about the graphene/graphite driver after the initial release flurry. I think just marketing...


 no, no, no problems with them, it's all my fault, I examined them for modding, and injured one driver ..


----------



## Ira Delphic

golov17 said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > Can you explain what happened? Did volume have anything to do with it? Were they modded?
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for clarification. The PT15 is tricky to mod because of how it's glued to the casing? Oh well.. win some lose some.


----------



## vapman

ira delphic said:


> Thanks for clarification. The PT15 is tricky to mod because of how it's glued to the casing? Oh well.. win some lose some.




Either a heat gun or torch is needed to open pt15. Very gluey in there.


----------



## waynes world

saoshyant said:


> @Danneq
> @vapman
> Well, been listening to Zen 1 for a couple albums now, and this thing is simply euphonic.  I just feel like I get lost in the music.  All I can say is wow.




Awesome! "Euphonic" and "wow" are correct as far as they are concerned. I see you've been enjoying them with the cheapo walnut as well. Awesome again!


----------



## weedophile

Tried the Sony MDR E808+ again and perhaps i have been using the Philips SHE3800 and Qian39 too much recently and have forgotten it sound like that. Shall give them a little listen together with the Monk and share the experience here and also edit my profile.


----------



## vapman

I am finally trying the Sunrise AS-Feeling 2. @BloodyPenguin sent it to me sometime last year... feels like half a year ago? I never tried it until now. The cable is one of the worst I've ever seen.... ever. So it will definitely be going to the recable station later tonight. However, even with the awful cable, it has a very good sound similar to the Sonys everybody loves, but very forward mids instead of recessed ones.
  
 I will pick a cable for it and recable it later tonight. Let's just hope it isn't glued shut, or something else like that.
  
 edit: yup, glued shut... need to find my heat gun before i can do this!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

These Arrived Today:  *Rose Masya*.


 (Photo from my Samsung S4)

  
 --


----------



## ATi7500

Whoever wants to experience the huge soundstage of Monk+ without foams, must try edifier H185 with full foams. H185 has a bit of V profile that goes U with full foams. Much more enjoyable than Monk+ imho.


----------



## chinmie

ati7500 said:


> Whoever wants to experience the huge soundstage of Monk+ without foams, must try edifier H185 with full foams. H185 has a bit of V profile that goes U with full foams. Much more enjoyable than Monk+ imho.




yes, this is to me my most favorite budget earbuds, and i also use it with full foam


----------



## vapman

@BloodyPenguin  will be very interested to hear your masya opinions.
  
 I'm sad, my asura 2 died on the left speaker 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Anyone got a spare they don't use?


----------



## magitka27

vapman said:


> @BloodyPenguin  will be very interested to hear your masya opinions.
> 
> I'm sad, my asura 2 died on the left speaker
> 
> ...


 

 i'm sad reading this  on the other side unfortunately i've sold the asura ... needed some cash boost to buy new phone and now i'm missed it so bad 

 i read a couple pages before about **** pt15,  do you have it vapman? does it sounds good compared too HE 150 ?


----------



## ballog

A few earbud-lovers and myself have been asking around about the Seahf 650ohm. It seems that no info have come up yet. Anyway I just had an exchange with Jim from HCK on Ali and he is offering a big discount to Head-fiers and thats $90 down from $125!


----------



## vapman

magitka27 said:


> i'm sad reading this  on the other side unfortunately i've sold the asura ... needed some cash boost to buy new phone and now i'm missed it so bad
> 
> i read a couple pages before about **** pt15,  do you have it vapman? does it sounds good compared too HE 150 ?


 
 I used to have **** pt15. Killed one of the drivers being too impatient while opening. Getting another set soon, hopefully i will be able to mod that one without breaking it  IT sounded good but too much treble energy for my ears.
  
 I want to give it my full mod treatment which has made champion contenders of some lesser appreciated buds... but will have to be careful to keep the treble in check!
  
 The asura breaking really was my fault, not much question about it.


----------



## chaiyuta

Where can I read TY HI-Z 400SE review?


----------



## Fabi

vapman said:


> I'm sad, my asura 2 died on the left speaker
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Saving private @mochill


----------



## kartik7405

chaiyuta said:


> Where can I read TY HI-Z 400SE review?


 
@BloodyPenguin have received;we can expect the review is up within a week in ty hi-z comparison thread. i am also intrested how it matches the sonic capability of bigger brother 650.


----------



## teston

Anyone tried the Sabia V4?
 I read some indonesian reviews that it has prominent bass, smooth mid and treb and quite spacious soundstage.


----------



## Townyj

Ive got a chance to purchase a pair of Crow Audio Ravens, does anyone have any info on them..??


----------



## Fabi

townyj said:


> Ive got a chance to purchase a pair of Crow Audio Ravens, does anyone have any info on them..??


 
 I'll receive them next week hopefully.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

chaiyuta said:


> Where can I read TY HI-Z 400SE review?


 
  


kartik7405 said:


> @BloodyPenguin have received;we can expect the review is up within a week in ty hi-z comparison thread. i am also intrested how it matches the sonic capability of bigger brother 650.


 
  
 Yes, I received the TY Hi-Z 400se yesterday.  It is burning in as I type this reply.

 I should have the review added to the TY Family Earbud Thread within a week. 
  
 Subscribe here:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/831374/introduction-to-ty-hi-z-earbud-family-mega-review
  
 --


----------



## Newfish-888

I just ordered one qian39, waiting right now ,ha..


----------



## vapman

I am gonna give away my puresounds 600 for free. If you want em you can pm me. I will pick someone to send it to eventually.


They have found their new home


----------



## teston

vapman said:


> I am gonna give away my puresounds 600 for free. If you want em you can pm me. I will pick someone to send it to eventually.


 
 It's very generous of you sir. Unfortunately I'm not in US, I would apply if I do


----------



## golov17

http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone


----------



## Fabi

vapman said:


> I am gonna give away my puresounds 600 for free. If you want em you can pm me. I will pick someone to send it to eventually.


 
 What a generous man.
 Maybe you can send them to those who wanted them for reviews in the US, to continue the tour 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Oops I'm not in the US..


----------



## weedophile

@vapman
  
 Vap bro i am more interested in ur soldering station as its a pain in the ass to find one in SG 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Dunno if this is good enough?
  
 Just posted this on the other thread and then i realised its the sister thread
  


Spoiler: Show post



*Monk+*
 Very solid mids, has a wide soundstage, Thumping bass yo, pretty balanced in terms of overall performance. Detailed and has decent clarity.
  
*Qian39*
 Bass quantity is meaty, too much bass to be honest lmao, coupled with it being forward sounding. Soundstage is not as wide as the Monks, but the music is more of a in-your-face kind,
  
*Philips SHE3800*
 Very detailed buds, with no lack of bass and trebles. Good enough soundstage but the mids lacks the warmth compared to the Monk+. Still, its freaking $3.21!
  
*K64 (white cables)*
 Bright, the mids and bass lacks body, but enjoyable for certain type of music. Hence not really versatile.
  
*Sony MDR E808+*
 In your face kind of sound, detailed, mids are somewhat recessed with good emphasis on the bass. Trebles arent the best too, but comfy all around.
  
*TY32 L-plug*
 Warm, but the sound is very laid back. Good soundstage and i stand correct on the bass. Doesnt have too much of it and the distant sound makes it pretty weird to listen to. Would be good if you can get a better fit for it.
  
*Benjie stock earbuds*
 Good bass quantity, clear, pretty detailed and has a pretty good overall soundstage. Dont sound weak at all and best thing its free!
  
 So to re-rank i would say:
 SHE3800 > Benjie stock > Monk+ > Qian39 > E808+> K64 > TY32


----------



## ozkan

How does Edifier H180 sound compared to SHE3800? Is it worth getting if you have the SHE3800 and how thick is the cable on H180?


----------



## ozkan

AKG K319


----------



## golov17

ozkan said:


> AKG K319


try it with MP foams


----------



## ozkan

golov17 said:


> try it with MP foams




I tried but the sound became too thin for my tastes. Maybe I should try them with Hiegi foams.

I can't believe how detailed these are.


----------



## golov17

ozkan said:


> I tried but the sound became too thin for my tastes. Maybe I should try them with Hiegi foams.
> 
> I can't believe how detailed these are.


just try it with some other rubber rings


----------



## vapman

I accidentally left a set of recabled benjie buds on a mbta bus today! If you're a mbta commuting Bostonian maybe you can get some free buds today 


The puresounds 600 has a new home! Dont pm me about if i still have it


----------



## ozkan

golov17 said:


> just try it with some other rubber rings




Well the problem is the front cover is too big for my ears so rubber rings seem won't likely work for my avarege ears.


----------



## golov17

ozkan said:


> Well the problem is the front cover is too big for my ears so rubber rings seem won't likely work for my avarege ears.


----------



## ozkan

golov17 said:


>




Wow you are a good collector of earbuds Golov17!


----------



## golov17

ozkan said:


> Wow you are a good collector of earbuds Golov17!


 I do not aspire to it - a self turned somehow ..


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> I do not aspire to it - a self turned somehow ..


 
 How's K319 cable?
 Not worried about bass. i can add it back.


----------



## ozkan

vapman said:


> How's K319 cable?
> Not worried about bass. i can add it back.




Quite thin compared to Monk+ cable and feels cheap.


----------



## vapman

ozkan said:


> Quite thin compared to Monk+ cable and feels cheap.


 
 hmm, no luck opening yours yet? is it glued shut?


----------



## ozkan

Yes they are glued but I haven't tried yet maybe later. Btw, I found a way to improve the bass fit and comfort on my K319 by reversing the silicone rings. Here are the pictures


----------



## DBaldock9

vapman said:


> @BloodyPenguin  will be very interested to hear your masya opinions.
> 
> I'm sad, my asura 2 died on the left speaker
> 
> ...


 

 Could it be a cable issue, or are you sure the driver is dead?


----------



## vapman

dbaldock9 said:


> Could it be a cable issue, or are you sure the driver is dead?


 
 I made one of them go 'crunch'. So, i'm sure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I took the 2.5mm TRRS cable off of it though, and will put it on a Qian39 or something.


----------



## flamesofarctica

vapman said:


> I made one of them go 'crunch'. So, i'm sure
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Too much power through it or a pair of pliers?


----------



## notamethlab

Has anyone successfully opened their edimun v3?


----------



## Townyj

notamethlab said:


> Has anyone successfully opened their edimun v3?


 
  
 ........ really..??


----------



## notamethlab

townyj said:


> ........ really..??



What's the issue?


----------



## vapman

I dunno what the problem is either? @notamethlab  they are held shut with blu tac, not glue... (at least mine) a little heat will help you open, too much will make a mess, haha.
  
 I have been wanting to put the edimun cable on a different driver. Great cable and as much as I respect Bengkel, Iriyan refuses to just make me a cable. So I guess I will just have to kill a Edimun


----------



## Townyj

notamethlab said:


> What's the issue?


 
  
 I have no issue with it at all really... who ever wants to screw their Edimun V3 go right ahead  I just want to see pics of the outcome.


----------



## notamethlab

vapman said:


> I dunno what the problem is either? @notamethlab
> they are held shut with blu tac, not glue... (at least mine) a little heat will help you open, too much will make a mess, haha.
> 
> I have been wanting to put the edimun cable on a different driver. Great cable and as much as I respect Bengkel, Iriyan refuses to just make me a cable. So I guess I will just have to kill a Edimun :veryevil:



Wow there's a lot of blutac in there! I was really curious of what was inside glad I finally found out lol


----------



## ozkan

Blu-tac is your best friend lol


----------



## fairx

notamethlab said:


> Wow there's a lot of blutac in there! I was really curious of what was inside glad I finally found out lol




Share pics please.!!


----------



## vapman

fairx said:


> Share pics please.!!


 
 If he doesn't soon, i will when i destroy my edimun v3 to harvest the cable. nobody can stop me!!


----------



## Fabi

vapman said:


> If he doesn't soon, i will when i destroy my edimun v3 to harvest the cable. nobody can stop me!!


 
 You are dimun possessed, bro! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 Please put your pair of earbuds down vapman!
 Interested in pics though


----------



## notamethlab

vapman said:


> If he doesn't soon, i will when i destroy my edimun v3 to harvest the cable. nobody can stop me!! :veryevil:



Send those "destroyed" housings and drivers to me lol


----------



## vapman

fabi said:


> You are dimun possessed, bro!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 I am gonna let iriyan know i am serious that i'll do it. If he doesn't believe me I might do it sooner just to prove it to him 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 We'll see if that can convince him to just make me a diy cable. haha!


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> I am gonna let iriyan know i am serious that i'll do it. If he doesn't believe me I might do it sooner just to prove it to him
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oh dear! We need an intervention or exorcism.
  
 I will bring the sage.


----------



## Joy Boy

fairx said:


> Share pics please.!!







vapman said:


> If he doesn't soon, i will when i destroy my edimun v3 to harvest the cable. nobody can stop me!! :veryevil:



Sorry, but i think it's not a proper thing to do. I mean every builder/modder have their own secret ingredient and they will very grateful if we just respect it rather than screw it. It could change something in the future, especially for other not-high profite home builder.
It just my opinion


----------



## chinmie

vapman said:


> I have been wanting to put the edimun cable on a different driver. Great cable and as much as I respect Bengkel, Iriyan refuses to just make me a cable. So I guess I will just have to kill a Edimun :veryevil:




AFAIK the edimun uses the demun custom cable, and demun sells them. you might want to try to contact demun before (or after, your choice  ) you destroy anything


----------



## Saoshyant

All I know is the Edimun cable is nothing in a million worlds like the Red Demun cable.  Forgiving a bit of stiffness, the design is fantastic.  I keep wanting to weave things into my Edimun's cable, but tell myself I might ruin it in the process.


----------



## chinmie

saoshyant said:


> All I know is the Edimun cable is nothing in a million worlds like the Red Demun cable.  Forgiving a bit of stiffness, the design is fantastic.  I keep wanting to weave things into my Edimun's cable, but tell myself I might ruin it in the process.




which one do you like? i personally like the demun better (in fact because it is stiff), although i also like the edimun's for tablets because the L jack and shorter cable.


----------



## Saoshyant

chinmie said:


> which one do you like? i personally like the demun better (in fact because it is stiff), although i also like the edimun's for tablets because the L jack and shorter cable.


 
  
 No matter what I try, the Demun cable is too stiff for my tastes, which requires I sit very still otherwise the tension pulls them out of my ears.  They only stay in place as it is using Monk earhooks.
  
 Audibly, as I haven't had the Edimun long, I"m preferring it as it's just way too much fun to my ears.


----------



## irgunawan

vapman said:


> If he doesn't soon, i will when i destroy my edimun v3 to harvest the cable. nobody can stop me!!


 
 open it
 open it
 open it
 please.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 i think few months ago i was posts some photos of "a lot of blutac" inside the Edimun v2 housing in this thread.


----------



## notamethlab

irgunawan said:


> open it
> open it
> open it
> please..
> ...


 
 The man himself! I have been enjoying the edimun v3! 
  
 I have a question though, do you or anyone here have suggestions on how to make the cable a bit softer?


----------



## Joy Boy

irgunawan said:


> open it
> open it
> open it
> please..
> i think few months ago i was posts some photos of "a lot of blutac" inside the Edimun v2 housing in this thread.



Okay, the builder himself has already talked and it's okay. Ignore my previous post


----------



## vapman

irgunawan said:


> open it
> open it
> open it
> please..
> ...


 
 Bro i'm not really gonna destroy my edimun v3. Dont worry 
  
 .... But i did open it a few times already


----------



## teston

I just received the Yinman 150, OOTB, they are very good. smooth signature, musical with sufficient amount of bass, sweet and lush mids, good sound stage, non fatigue treb.


----------



## SuperMAG

vapman, which cable made you qain39 a champion, wheres did u buy it from.


----------



## vapman

supermag said:


> vapman, which cable made you qain39 a champion, wheres did u buy it from.


 
 If you are not a big bass lover go silver.
 If you do love bass get the thickest copper you can


----------



## SuperMAG

i love bass, soundstage and clarity, but i want the one that made urs champion. do you have the link for that copper ad silver. thanks.


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman said:


> If you are not a big bass lover go silver.
> If you do love bass get the thickest copper you can


 
  
 I'd be curious to hear Awei ES10 with some copper.


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> I'd be curious to hear Awei ES10 with some copper.


 
 has anyone recabled them before?


----------



## Saoshyant

@vapman I've seen pics, but haven't spoke to anyone here that has that I'm aware of.  I was thinking of ordering an iron, several ES10 and some cable and giving recabling a try.


----------



## Majin

saoshyant said:


> I'd be curious to hear Awei ES10 with some copper.


 
  
 How are they with a stock cable?


----------



## flamesofarctica

@vapman I asked earlier but don't think you saw, just interested in how you broke your Asura, as I know you'd been driving it to the max, and was wondering if it was that, or some DIY work?


----------



## vapman

flamesofarctica said:


> @vapman I asked earlier but don't think you saw, just interested in how you broke your Asura, as I know you'd been driving it to the max, and was wondering if it was that, or some DIY work?


 
 Neither DIY or overdriving it, it went crunch. it should have been one of the monks, not the asura


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Neither DIY or overdriving it, it went crunch. it should have been one of the monks, not the asura :mad:


 As they say in Russia, "where the thin, there and tear"...


----------



## Saoshyant

majin said:


> How are they with a stock cable?


 
  
 It's about as bassy as a budget earbud gets, roughly on par with E808+.  Vocals are fairly normal too, so ultimately it's a fun sounding bud.  Stock cable is certainly thin and most likely easily damaged.  The last time I listened to it was on Opus #1, so some deficiencies might be compensated for by the dap.


----------



## AkashS04

From Edifier P180, TY-Hi Z32s and FiiO EM3, which one should be rated highest for Great and Deep Bass (including sub bass) and warmness of sound and no harsh treble? After reviewing the reviewed, looks Edifier P180 is the winner. Or not?


----------



## Majin

saoshyant said:


> It's about as bassy as a budget earbud gets, roughly on par with E808+.  Vocals are fairly normal too, so ultimately it's a fun sounding bud.  Stock cable is certainly thin and most likely easily damaged.  The last time I listened to it was on Opus #1, so some deficiencies might be compensated for by the dap.


 
  
 Hmm guess i will give it a try purely because it has a mic. No other earbuds are on my wishlist atm.


----------



## Danneq

akashs04 said:


> Do I look like a fool who will buy $260 IEM?




If you go down from $260 to $150 you can buy Cypherus CampFred earbuds. You will never find earbuds with a warmer sound, deeper sub bass and more forgiving but still detailed treble. If I look at what you search for CampFred might just be perfect.
If you stick to budget earbuds you will find some great stuff. But never anything that ticks all of your boxes.

I think you should get all 3 budget earbuds you mention. Or a pair of CampFred. If you don't like CampFred I'll be glad to buy it from you. I could always use a spare pair of CampFred...


----------



## AkashS04

danneq said:


> If you go down from $260 to $150 you can buy Cypherus CampFred earbuds. You will never find earbuds with a warmer sound, deeper sub bass and more forgiving but still detailed treble. If I look at what you search for CampFred might just be perfect.
> If you stick to budget earbuds you will find some great stuff. But never anything that ticks all of your boxes.
> 
> I think you should get all 3 budget earbuds you mention. Or a pair of CampFred. If you don't like CampFred I'll be glad to buy it from you. I could always use a spare pair of CampFred...


 
 $150 too expensive. Even if they are best.


----------



## Ira Delphic

danneq said:


> akashs04 said:
> 
> 
> > Do I look like a fool who will buy $260 IEM?
> ...


 
  
 He wants to hear the sound of merciful blasting gods and upper price limit. $7. Imagine being on the top of a tall peak during a thunder storm. The lightening strikes the rocks (above the tree line) and you hear and feel the crash of the thunder, the vibration resonates through your body . The question is what is the best earbud for that price range? Also source is the and early generation of iPod Nano.


----------



## chaiyuta

Nowadays in earbud world, I really pity VE's earbuds too much. It seem likes every earbuds from other companies want to kill them all. Please spare Monk+'s life.


----------



## ozkan

akashs04 said:


> See, I cannot spend $30-40 on buying all three earbuds and see which one is good one. Already spent more than $120-130 and also replaced my iPod nano 1G (bought one form ebay later though) for Nano 7G. S before placing an order, I wanted to get some opinion. You may be millionaire so can buy $260 earphone but for me it is really big amount.




I do understand your concerns. You gather all the information before purchasing another earbud and you don't want to send your money to trash but you forget that everyone here has different tastes and perception in sound. You may call an earbud bass heavy while I find them bass light. My treasure can be your waste bla bla. 

What you forget and the most important thing of the chain is your source or dap whatever you want to call it and I highly doubt that any Apple products will give you heart shaking bass. You'd better search for some more powerful sources with good equliazers. 

1-I can recommend you one and it is Xduoo X3 with rockbox so you can pump up the bass to your liking. 

2-You can look for thick donut foams like Hiegi foams 

3-If you are skilled in DIY you can add some Blu-tac or cotton inside your earbuds or recable them with copper cables and see if you like them more. 

I don't think any earbuds will give you gombs of bass because of their open design. That's why I recommended you an IEM. 

Good luck because you really need it lol.


----------



## ballog

ozkan said:


> Whatever we recommend you'll ask the same questions over over and over again and never listen to us. So why don't you rest and let us breath lol?
> 
> If you want the best bass buy CKR9 iem. That's my last suggestion.



I think we should all chip-in and buy this head-fi brother an earbud of his choice in his time of need.


----------



## ozkan

ballog said:


> I think we should all chip-in and buy this head-fi brother an earbud of his choice in his time of need.




I'm in


----------



## Ira Delphic

ballog said:


> ozkan said:
> 
> 
> > Whatever we recommend you'll ask the same questions over over and over again and never listen to us. So why don't you rest and let us breath lol?
> ...


 
  
 Crowdfunding? I'm in for a few dollars!


----------



## ballog

ballog said:


> I think we should all chip-in and buy this head-fi brother an earbud of his choice in his time of need.



Seriously i think that if someone is cash-strapped and can't stand budget stuff then it would be better for that person's own good and sanity to stay clear of Head-fi or any serious audio forum.


----------



## ATi7500

akashs04 said:


> See, I cannot spend $30-40 on buying all three earbuds and see which one is good one. Already spent more than $120-130 and also replaced my iPod nano 1G (bought one form ebay later though) for Nano 7G. S before placing an order, I wanted to get some opinion. You may be millionaire so can buy $260 earphone but for me it is really big amount.


 
 We already recommended 3 earbuds to you, all of which can be obtained under 15$. So I am not really sure why are you thinking to spend 30$-40$ now.
  
 SHE3800: 3$
 Qian25: 7$
 RY4S: 5$
  
 Now before writing again on this thread with the same question over and over, go buy those three, report here when you review all of them, and we might give further help based on your considerations.


----------



## Ira Delphic

ballog said:


> ballog said:
> 
> 
> > I think we should all chip-in and buy this head-fi brother an earbud of his choice in his time of need.
> ...


 
  
 He was in the hospital recently. I think he can legitimately start a Go Fund Me campaign if willing to provide documentation that he was in the hospital and had a large bill not covered by insurance.
  
 https://funds.gofundme.com/dashboard/create
  
 Then he can use the proceeds to buy a TOTL earbud. And if still not satisfied after that, not much we can do.


----------



## AkashS04

ati7500 said:


> We already recommended 3 earbuds to you, all of which can be obtained under 15$. So I am not really sure why are you thinking to spend 30$-40$ now.
> 
> SHE3800: 3$
> Qian25: 7$
> ...


 
 Ok. Did you get your RY4S and already used them? How they are?


----------



## To.M

AkashS04
Buy iems for 5usd and enjoy skull-shaking lows, someone recommended them for bassheads in the iems thread

PLEXTONE X41M http://s.aliexpress.com/3q2iemQb


----------



## ATi7500

to.m said:


> @AkashS04
> Buy iems for 5usd and enjoy skull-shaking lows, someone recommended them for bassheads in the iems thread
> 
> PLEXTONE X41M http://s.aliexpress.com/3q2iemQb


 
 Don't give him more choices for the love of God...


----------



## AkashS04

to.m said:


> @AkashS04
> Buy iems for 5usd and enjoy skull-shaking lows, someone recommended them for bassheads in the iems thread
> 
> PLEXTONE X41M http://s.aliexpress.com/3q2iemQb


 
 Thanks To.M but I kinda don't like in-ear ones. I know that they have better Bass and sound quality. However, if there is any open back iem which does not create vacuum issue, I might consider. I guess Beoplay B3 is one of them but it is $150.


----------



## AkashS04

ati7500 said:


> Don't give him more choices for the love of God...


 
 BTW, just ordered SHE3800. Selected 5-10 days delivery option. Let's see how it performs once I listen to them. I wanted White colour but they had only Black


----------



## ozkan

to.m said:


> AkashS04
> Buy iems for 5usd and enjoy skull-shaking lows, someone recommended them for bassheads in the iems thread
> 
> PLEXTONE X41M http://s.aliexpress.com/3q2iemQb




And this one. I'm sure he will fall in love with its head shaking bass and never come back again to this thread lol 

2015 DIY Swing IE800 Earbuds HiFi In-ear Ceramic Earphone Earbud Earbuds Wth Microphone Top Quality HiFi In-Ear Headset
 http://s.aliexpress.com/RNbyUjIZ 
(from AliExpress Android)

Btw we are still trying to help you with your decision bro


----------



## ballog

akashs04 said:


> BTW, just ordered SHE3800. Selected 5-10 days delivery option. Let's see how it performs once I listen to them. I wanted White colour but they had only Black



Bummer! Now he's got problems with colours. Could somebody recommend some cheap white paint can .


----------



## ozkan

I ordered another 3 pcs of SHE3800. They sound so special for me. And gonna order H180 for comparison 

Of course I will mode them both


----------



## AkashS04

ozkan said:


> And this one. I'm sure he will fall in love with its head shaking bass and never come back again to this thread lol
> 
> 2015 DIY Swing IE800 Earbuds HiFi In-ear Ceramic Earphone Earbud Earbuds Wth Microphone Top Quality HiFi In-Ear Headset
> http://s.aliexpress.com/RNbyUjIZ
> ...


 
 I am sure that these will be good too but the issue with IEMs that when I wear them, they create vacuum and I tend to hear my own voice very loud and unnatural when I speak. So if I want to sing along while listening  I cannot do :|


----------



## AkashS04

ozkan said:


> And this one. I'm sure he will fall in love with its head shaking bass and never come back again to this thread lol
> 
> 2015 DIY Swing IE800 Earbuds HiFi In-ear Ceramic Earphone Earbud Earbuds Wth Microphone Top Quality HiFi In-Ear Headset
> http://s.aliexpress.com/RNbyUjIZ
> ...


 
 Are they in response of Sennheiser IE800  but at 2% price only


----------



## AkashS04

Have you used them already? I guess so? The vent behind the speaker is actually making them open back iems and they won't create vacuum or do they?


----------



## voxdub

ozkan said:


> I ordered another 3 pcs of SHE3800. They sound so special for me. And gonna order H180 for comparison
> 
> Of course I will mode them both




Interested in your comparison with the H180, I have 3 pairs of them, absolutely love them, torn as to whether I prefer them to the VE Monk+. Qian39 and Sony E808 arrived today so I'll be spending some time burning in and listening to them this weekend.


----------



## AkashS04

Did anyone tried these:
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TWFM-U1-HiFi-Earphones-with-Microphone-for-Mobile-Phone-Stereo-Headphones-DJ-Universal-Wired-Headset-XBS/32522924076.html


----------



## rkw

Congratulations!


----------



## ozkan

My favorites so far


----------



## hung031086

I need a earbud with good bass and soundstage. I'm a basshead. My budget is under $300. And it can pair with my sony wm1a orwalnut v2 without an amp. I prefer it can swap a cable with mmcx, because i have a extra silver cable from my vegas. If not its fine. Any recommendations ? I just bought a zen 2 but i don't like the sq.


----------



## AkashS04

An Earbud product description says that it has 13.6mm High performance Moving Coil Module and it also says 15.4mm Speaker Size. Does that mean the Driver size is 13.6 only?


----------



## CharlesRievone

akashs04 said:


> Did anyone tried these:


 
 Everyone already pointed you to the right direction. For now, don't look at anything else unless it has been suggested or you'll just be confused even more.


----------



## AkashS04

I ordered one already from he suggestion. I liked the Flat and Tangle Free cable of UiiSii U2 so just wanted to check if anyone used them?


----------



## AkashS04

charlesrievone said:


> Everyone already pointed you to the right direction. For now, don't look at anything else unless it has been suggested or you'll just be confused even more.


 
 Is there any good Earbud with Cable like UiiSii U2?


----------



## voxdub

hung031086 said:


> I need a earbud with good bass and soundstage. I'm a basshead. My budget is under $300. And it can pair with my sony wm1a orwalnut v2 without an amp. I prefer it can swap a cable with mmcx, because i have a extra silver cable from my vegas. If not its fine. Any recommendations ? I just bought a zen 2 but i don't like the sq.



Depends what you consider good bass, IEM levels ain't gonna happen in an earbud. To be honest I'm struggling to think of any MMCX earbuds other than the **** PT15 which can be bought without cable, although I only buy budget cos I buy so many.


----------



## DBaldock9

voxdub said:


> Depends what you consider good bass, IEM levels ain't gonna happen in an earbud. To be honest I'm struggling to think of any MMCX earbuds other than the **** PT15 which can be bought without cable, although I only buy budget cos I buy so many.


 

 I bought a set of Daik DK-Song earbuds for $46.95, without a cable.


----------



## notamethlab

hung031086 said:


> I need a earbud with good bass and soundstage. I'm a basshead. My budget is under $300. And it can pair with my sony wm1a orwalnut v2 without an amp. I prefer it can swap a cable with mmcx, because i have a extra silver cable from my vegas. If not its fine. Any recommendations ? I just bought a zen 2 but i don't like the sq.




I wouldn't drop 300 from the get go, try the qian 39, she3800, e808+ from there you decide if you want more and can go into ones like edimun, yinman 500, red demun etc. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## notamethlab

Ughhhhhh I broke another 3800 driver  just a heads up to everyone, be careful when opening your 3800.


----------



## msdos

Hey guys, been following this thread for a while but never posted, looking for a little bit of help with my next purchase.
  
 I already have a small collection of earbuds:
  
 - **** PT15 (too bright for me, no low end)
 - Qian 25 (too bright for me)
 - TY HI-Z  32ohm (too bright for me)
 - Qian 39 (warm sound signature to my ears but really enjoyable)
 - Toneking TP16 (almost neutral sound signature to my ears, really enjoyable... also love love love the cable)
 - Monk Plus (fun sound signature, really enjoyable)
  
 Currently in my ali shopping cart:
  
 RY4S, Faaeal 32ohm, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-New-Arrival-In-ear-Earphones-Flat-Head-Plug-DIY-Earphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds-DJ-Earbuds/32759573651.html (no idea what these are called) and Boarseman MX98s (mostly because I love their looks). Any of these I should steer away from?
  
 I mostly listen to indie and electronic music. Thanks in advance for any advice.


----------



## rkw

hung031086 said:


> I need a earbud with good bass and soundstage. I'm a basshead. My budget is under $300. And it can pair with my sony wm1a orwalnut v2 without an amp. I prefer it can swap a cable with mmcx


 
  
 I can't even think of any *earbud* (not IEM) over $300, so cost is not a limitation. Yinman 600 ohm has MMCX connectors and good bass and soundstage, but I don't know if your players can drive it adequately.


----------



## DBaldock9

msdos said:


> Hey guys, been following this thread for a while but never posted, looking for a little bit of help with my next purchase.
> 
> I already have a small collection of earbuds:
> 
> ...


 

 I've been impressed with the Mantis C7 (currently $12.77 on AliExpress).  It's Bass impact and range are nearly equivalent to my VE Asura 2.0 (2.5TRRS), which was $88.


----------



## ozkan

notamethlab said:


> Ughhhhhh I broke another 3800 driver  just a heads up to everyone, be careful when opening your 3800.




Just one?


----------



## AkashS04

Is it possible to buy and change Flat cable to the existing ones? What change it makes on present audio quality. For example, if I want Flat and Tangle Free cable for Monk+, can it be done? How and if Flat/Tangle Free cable is available to buy? I want cable like UiiSii U2. Really liked them. But no idea how to change and what tools will be required.


----------



## ozkan

msdos said:


> Hey guys, been following this thread for a while but never posted, looking for a little bit of help with my next purchase.
> 
> I already have a small collection of earbuds:
> 
> ...




Philips SHE3800 or the previous Monk if you can still find.


----------



## hung031086

rkw said:


> I can't even think of any *earbud* (not IEM) over $300, so cost is not a limitation. Yinman 600 ohm has MMCX connectors and good bass and soundstage, but I don't know if your players can drive it adequately.



600ohm is too much for me. I don't wanna stack any amp to my dap. I just need anything has better bass than zen2.


----------



## ozkan

akashs04 said:


> Is it possible to buy and change Flat cable to the existing ones? What change it makes on present audio quality. For example, if I want Flat and Tangle Free cable for Monk+, can it be done? How and if Flat/Tangle Free cable is available to buy? I want cable like UiiSii U2. Really liked them. But no idea how to change and what tools will be required.




From now on I'll ignore all your silly posts. Sorry but you should be having fun with us do you?


----------



## Ira Delphic

msdos said:


> Hey guys, been following this thread for a while but never posted, looking for a little bit of help with my next purchase.
> 
> I already have a small collection of earbuds:
> 
> ...


 
  
 What is your audio source? Hate to state the obvious, have your tried adjusting EQ? IMO the Qian39 and Monk+ should have more than enough bass for indie and electronic music  - both respond well to EQ adjustment.


----------



## AkashS04

ozkan said:


> From now on I'll ignore all your silly posts. Sorry but you should be having fun with us do you?


 
 To be frank. I don't need your advise. Thanks and you can keep it within yourself.


----------



## LukeVivolo

I have not seen any flat cables for sale, but you could find a cheap earbud with a flat cable and use that. To change cables you will need a soldering iron, i recommend getting a nice one with temperature control like the hakko FX888D. Soldering is fairly easy, but you should get some practice before working on something you are afraid to break. For opening the earbud, if it uses lots of glue, you should use a heat gun or a hair dryer. Otherwise you could just use a razor blade. Be sure to take your time and be very careful while opening earbuds so you don't break anything.


----------



## Fabi

Please keep cool guys.
 I can only say that many have tried, all of them have failed to help him unfortunately.
 Just a moment of turbulence, please stay seated and attach your seat belt.
 Sorry for the inconvenience. Thank you for flying with Head-Fly.


----------



## flamesofarctica

hung031086 said:


> 600ohm is too much for me. I don't wanna stack any amp to my dap. I just need anything has better bass than zen2.




The Zen2 needs an amp ideally, and isn't known for being bassy, interested what made you choose it, as it's quite an expensive choice for something that doesn't suit your tastes (I love it btw, vocals sound stunning and I find the overall sound signature really more-ish). For bassy earbuds, I only really know the obvious budget choices (eg Qian39, RY4S, TY HP150).


----------



## voxdub

ira delphic said:


> What is your audio source? Hate to state the obvious, have your tried adjusting EQ? IMO the Qian39 and Monk+ should have more than enough bass for indie and electronic music  - both respond well to EQ adjustment.




The Monk+ don't have quite enough bass for me to listen to EDM with them, but they sound amazing listening to something like Rage Against the Machine or OK Computer, mind blowing how good they can sound for the money.


----------



## Danneq

hung031086 said:


> 600ohm is too much for me. I don't wanna stack any amp to my dap. I just need anything has better bass than zen2.




As long as you don't push the volume to the maximum - Cypherus CampFred. Best and deepest bass I've heard in a pair of low impedance earbuds. They cost $150 without shipping. People who have used CampFred with mobile phones have not been overly impressed but out of a good DAP CampFred can really impress you.


----------



## vapman

notamethlab said:


> Ughhhhhh I broke another 3800 driver  just a heads up to everyone, be careful when opening your 3800.


 
 The trick to opening them is applicable to all other buds with a driver which isn't secured to the front cover with glue. One day you will stop crunching them during opening, and one day you'll stop crunching them when closin them too


----------



## barbazz

msdos said:


> Currently in my ali shopping cart:
> 
> RY4S, Faaeal 32ohm, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-New-Arrival-In-ear-Earphones-Flat-Head-Plug-DIY-Earphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds-DJ-Earbuds/32759573651.html (no idea what these are called) and Boarseman MX98s (mostly because I love their looks). Any of these I should steer away from?
> 
> I mostly listen to indie and electronic music. Thanks in advance for any advice.


 
  
 Not sure about you shopping card (currently waiting for RY4S), but taking in account the comments about your current collection, I agree with @ozkan. SHE3800 would make a nice addition to your collection. Using them as I write and listen to some indie rock (Bombay Bicycle Club, Grizzly Bear, Vampire Weekend)


----------



## flamesofarctica

msdos said:


> Hey guys, been following this thread for a while but never posted, looking for a little bit of help with my next purchase.
> 
> I already have a small collection of earbuds:
> 
> ...




The RY4S and Boarseman MX98S are both fun and listenable and I recommend. The DIY unnamed is pretty good, quite forward sounding but not harsh, with decent bass. If anything maybe a bit too similar to the Boarseman. The Faaeal I haven't really used much, I need to give it another try.

For these 4 though, you're 2/3 towards the price of the Asura, which I'd also recommend as an awesome earbud and a definite favorite.


----------



## barbazz

flamesofarctica said:


> The DIY unnamed


 
  
 Yincrow X6


----------



## flamesofarctica

barbazz said:


> Yincrow X6




Looked at link and into item description, Yincrow X6 looks to be a totally different earbud to the golden twisty cable one


----------



## hung031086

danneq said:


> As long as you don't push the volume to the maximum - Cypherus CampFred. Best and deepest bass I've heard in a pair of low impedance earbuds. They cost $150 without shipping. People who have used CampFred with mobile phones have not been overly impressed but out of a good DAP CampFred can really impress you.



WHere can i buy it ?


----------



## tinkertailor

msdos said:


> RY4S, Faaeal 32ohm, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-New-Arrival-In-ear-Earphones-Flat-Head-Plug-DIY-Earphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds-DJ-Earbuds/32759573651.html (no idea what these are called) and Boarseman MX98s (mostly because I love their looks). Any of these I should steer away from?
> 
> I mostly listen to indie and electronic music. Thanks in advance for any advice.


 
 IMO 32ohm FAAEAL is not too different from qian25 and I wouldn't bother. Then agian you like monk plus which to me is way to mid centric and not good as ty32 or qian25 so i dunno, you're call.


----------



## barbazz

flamesofarctica said:


> Looked at link and into item description, Yincrow X6 looks to be a totally different earbud to the golden twisty cable one


 
  
 You're completely right, I was fooled by the advertising in the page and only looked to the box 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 According to the page, the brand is Fengru but you can see other "Fengrus" marked as Faaeal (or Fareal??) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I guess unnamed is a good name...


----------



## tinkertailor

ozkan said:


> Sorry but you should be having fun with us do you?


 
 Seems like this person is having a ton of fun actually lol


----------



## notamethlab

ozkan said:


> Just one?


 

I've killed 3 pairs so far. This time the diaphragm separated, stayed in the cover and the copper wire snapped


----------



## flamesofarctica

K's 300 is really growing on me.


----------



## vapman

notamethlab said:


> I've killed 3 pairs so far. This time the diaphragm separated, stayed in the cover and the copper wire snapped


 
 Even if the voice coil separated, if you can put it back without crunching it, it should be salvagable. 
  
 The biggest thing i've learned about working on that style earbuds.... have tons of backups around. I've come to learn any amount of a "click" or "crunch" sound on reassembly means it's time to start over with that driver/


----------



## voxdub

So thought I'd listen to the Qian 39 for a bit before bed, they arrived today so haven't had chance to burn them in. Was not expecting this, the lows aren't just there, they're literally pounding my ears. Despite seeing all the comments I wasn't expecting them to be so warm but it's nice to hear something totally different for a change. Will be interesting to compare the E808 as they arrived today too.


----------



## Danneq

hung031086 said:


> WHere can i buy it ?




You can get in touch with Herry from Cypherus in this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/826036/cypherus-audio-products-discussion-thread-campfred-earbuds-qfred-earbuds-and-cax-golden-reference


----------



## Raketen

hung031086 said:


> I need a earbud with good bass and soundstage. I'm a basshead. My budget is under $300. And it can pair with my sony wm1a orwalnut v2 without an amp. I prefer it can swap a cable with mmcx, because i have a extra silver cable from my vegas. If not its fine. Any recommendations ? I just bought a zen 2 but i don't like the sq.




I think sony 808s are considered the current basshead earbud champs?

I haven't experienced the outer limits of earbud bass in the few 'buds I've used & not tried EQing them but - Shozy Stardust with full foams maybe? Easy to drive. Elvated bass on similar volume of zen2, but bass starts deeper and it's more flat into the mids, with gentle treble roll but well balanced (though there is a peak for midrange/vocal details that others seem to like but to me is bit grainy and makes the back of my brain itch).

Build quality doesn't really live up to price, but they sound quite good.


----------



## purplesun

notamethlab said:


> I've killed 3 pairs so far. This time the diaphragm separated, stayed in the cover and the copper wire snapped


 
  
 You can buy spare front covers from taobao. If the earbud is too tightly glued on, use a cutter plier & cut around the sides of the front covers where the glue is. Then it will be easier to pry open. After that, I try to "push it out" by feeding the cable from the rear of the earbud. And also, using a toothpick against the driver solder-board, to gently pull it out.
  
 Btw, glad to see you back, Mr. Blu-tac!


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> Even if the voice coil separated, if you can put it back without crunching it, it should be salvagable.
> 
> The biggest thing i've learned about working on that style earbuds.... have tons of backups around. I've come to learn any amount of a "click" or "crunch" sound on reassembly means it's time to start over with that driver/


 
  
 Read it several times, and I still can't figure out what do you mean by "crunching" the driver?
 VC separation? Yes. Crunching? No idea what's that?


----------



## vapman

raketen said:


> I think sony 808s are considered the current basshead earbud champs?


 
 Nope, they don't even belong in a basshead earbud lineup honestly, at least in stock form. All the most basshead champs are in my house, modded by me and the best of all has been heard by nobody else to date. I don't know anyone else who would want to hear it, the sound pressure level of the bass alone could make non bassheads nauseous, I'm serious. It's highly modified, uses a unique driver and has IEM levels of impact and extension. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 #2 best basshead earbud is a recabled and lightly modded Qian39.
 #3 is the Asura 2.0.
 #4 is probably where a modded Sony 808+ falls in.
  
 Those answers all assume you use a basshead's eq and of course amp on high gain.
  

  
 With all respect and more to @Danneq - the CampFred does not like to be listened to at loud volumes, so I would definitely not amp it and EQ it like this. So, i can't call it a basshead bud, if you can't even listen at high volumes un-amped.


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> Read it several times, and I still can't figure out what do you mean by "crunching" the driver?
> VC separation? Yes. Crunching? No idea what's that?


 
 VC stays connected, but extra pressure from both the front and back shells pushes on the VC, causing it to break although it is still attached. Then the driver shorts out and dies if you run power thru it...
  
 The only ways i have done this are badly reassembling an earbud during DIY, stepping on them or something like that...


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> The only ways i have done this are badly reassembling an earbud during DIY, stepping on them or something like that...


 
  
 Too much bass energy into your head turns you into a klutz! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 QED


----------



## barbazz

notamethlab said:


> I've killed 3 pairs so far. This time the diaphragm separated, stayed in the cover and the copper wire snapped


 
  
 Starting to feel that I was very lucky to choose ES10 for my first DIY attempt


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> With all respect and more to @Danneq
> - the CampFred does not like to be listened to at loud volumes, so I would definitely not amp it and EQ it like this. So, i can't call it a basshead bud, if you can't even listen at high volumes un-amped.




CampFred is fine at loud volumes. But not ear splitting volumes. Of course some people do like to listen at such volumes. I have yet to hear a low impedance earbud with as deep and solid sub bass as CampFred. It doesn't even need EQ to give you deep sub bass (although I usually EQ sub bass up by 2-3 dB).

So if you want bass and nothing else, perhaps go with something else then CampFred. For a pair of earbuds with great dynamics and sub bass and pretty good soundstage and instrument layering, I consider CampFred to be among the best when it comes to low impedance earbuds.


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> CampFred is fine at loud volumes. But not ear splitting volumes. Of course some people do like to listen at such volumes. I have yet to hear a low impedance earbud with as deep and solid sub bass as CampFred. It doesn't even need EQ to give you deep sub bass (although I usually EQ sub bass up by 2-3 dB).
> 
> So if you want bass and nothing else, perhaps go with something else then CampFred. For a pair of earbuds with great dynamics and sub bass and pretty good soundstage and instrument layering, I consider CampFred to be among the best when it comes to low impedance earbuds.


 
 One day I oughta send around my two best bass cannon buds and let you hear em. The midrange and treble is still intact. One's 32 ohms, the other 12 ohms


----------



## notamethlab

purplesun said:


> You can buy spare front covers from taobao. If the earbud is too tightly glued on, use a cutter plier & cut around the sides of the front covers where the glue is. Then it will be easier to pry open. After that, I try to "push it out" by feeding the cable from the rear of the earbud. And also, using a toothpick against the driver solder-board, to gently pull it out.
> 
> Btw, glad to see you back, Mr. Blu-tac!




Funny you mention blu-tac, that's the reason I popped them open. I was going to add some, but unfortunately I destroyed the driver. 

Oh well they won't break the bank. Glad it happend on the 3800 and not a more expensive bud.


----------



## notamethlab

barbazz said:


> Starting to feel that I was very lucky to choose ES10 for my first DIY attempt




Yup the 3800 and e808+ are a nightmare, at least for me.


----------



## notamethlab

vapman said:


> Even if the voice coil separated, if you can put it back without crunching it, it should be salvagable.
> 
> The biggest thing i've learned about working on that style earbuds.... have tons of backups around. I've come to learn any amount of a "click" or "crunch" sound on reassembly means it's time to start over with that driver/



Hmm what do you mean by a click or crunch?


----------



## purplesun

notamethlab said:


> Hmm what do you mean by a click or crunch?


 

 @vapman answered me 8 posts back.


----------



## notamethlab

purplesun said:


> @vapman answered me 8 posts back.



Basically don't force the shut?


----------



## vapman

notamethlab said:


> Basically don't force the shut?


 
 exactly, if it isn't shutting with almost no force, rotate the driver until it does


----------



## skylartd

Hi guys, i am going to recable my Mx985, but i cant figure out where to find the small rubber part at the bottom of the earbud, did you have any tips or link?. Sorry i can't post a picture....


----------



## vapman

skylartd said:


> Hi guys, i am going to recable my Mx985, but i cant figure out where to find the small rubber part at the bottom of the earbud, did you have any tips or link?. Sorry i can't post a picture....


 
 Just use heatshrink.


----------



## chinmie

danneq said:


> As long as you don't push the volume to the maximum - Cypherus CampFred. Best and deepest bass I've heard in a pair of low impedance earbuds. They cost $150 without shipping. People who have used CampFred with mobile phones have not been overly impressed but out of a good DAP CampFred can really impress you.




how's the campfred's sub bass compared to the Ty hi-z 32? because that's the biggest impact sub bass that i currently own and hear in an earbud.

on the side note, Diomnes is en route to my house, can't wait


----------



## Townyj

chinmie said:


> how's the campfred's sub bass compared to the Ty hi-z 32? because that's the biggest impact sub bass that i currently own and hear in an earbud.
> 
> on the side note, Diomnes is en route to my house, can't wait


 
  
 Enjoy the Diomnes  amazing earbud. Will never part with mine.


----------



## golov17

hung031086 said:


> I need a earbud with good bass and soundstage. I'm a basshead. My budget is under $300. And it can pair with my sony wm1a orwalnut v2 without an amp. I prefer it can swap a cable with mmcx, because i have a extra silver cable from my vegas. If not its fine. Any recommendations ? I just bought a zen 2 but i don't like the sq.


try Ostry kc08t


----------



## vapman

I gave my gf a bunch of earbuds I had multiples of. actually I just stuffed a bunch in her purse one day cause she lost her apple ones.
  
 She's been using the remax 303 for a few weeks and nothing else after trying all of them. So there you have it. It was my favorite bud for making calls until I got the ucotech too.


----------



## ballog

flamesofarctica said:


> K's 300 is really growing on me.



Would love a few words about the sound signature bro.


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> One day I oughta send around my two best bass cannon buds and let you hear em. The midrange and treble is still intact. One's 32 ohms, the other 12 ohms




You mods? If they are available for purchase and have deep and textured bass from a flat source I stand corrected. Of all the available earbuds I have heard CampFred has got the best sub bass, which is almost un-earbud like.

You could specialize on DIY basshead earbuds. There might be a market there!

CampFred isn't specifically a basshead earbud. It's just an earbud with great sub bass.


----------



## Danneq

chinmie said:


> how's the campfred's sub bass compared to the Ty hi-z 32? because that's the biggest impact sub bass that i currently own and hear in an earbud.
> 
> on the side note, Diomnes is en route to my house, can't wait




Well, CampFred is a big step up in every category. But considering the price difference it should be... 

In my pair of TY32 (version 1) sub bass is good but covered up by a somewhat flabby mid bass.

Still, the straight plug TY32 have really good sub bass for an earbud. Especially a $5 earbud.


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> You mods? If they are available for purchase and have deep and textured bass from a flat source I stand corrected. Of all the available earbuds I have heard CampFred has got the best sub bass, which is almost un-earbud like.
> 
> You could specialize on DIY basshead earbuds. There might be a market there!
> 
> CampFred isn't specifically a basshead earbud. It's just an earbud with great sub bass.


 
 I would say they do, but of course that's my opinion as their creator! I'll send you a basshead set sometime when I go get more int'l stamps, so you can let me know how it sounds out of your plethora of DAPs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
@flamesofarctica more words on k's 300 please? does it has the same upper mid weirdness as k's 64?


----------



## golov17

PureSounds PS64


----------



## msdos

Wow, thanks for all the replies.
  
@DBaldock9 thank you, added the Mantis C7 to my order.
@ozkan and @barbazz I'll probably pick up some SHE3800 when I figure out how mistertao works.
@Ira Delphic totally forgot to mention, listening is split between Nexus5x (Spotify/extreme quality) and my PC with a Essence STX II soundcard (a few flac albums and Spotify). I probably should've mentioned that I'm perfectly happy with the Monk, Qian39 and TP16, I don't need that much bass. Just have the urge to try more stuff. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



@flamesofarctica That sounds great, going to keep both the MX98s and DIY unnamed in my order then! I'd probably need a better mobile source to really make use of the Asura. 
@tinkertailor Removed the Faaeal for now, might give the Qian25 a listen again sometime and see if I'm still up for it.
  
 And I just placed the order, I'll report back in a few weeks. Thanks again!


----------



## flamesofarctica

vapman said:


> @flamesofarctica
> more words on k's 300 please? does it has the same upper mid weirdness as k's 64?




@vapman and @ballog - I'll do some further listening today & report back in a bit more detail.. haven't spotted any weirdness as such but I'll admit I only spent one evening listening to K's 64 and considered that their one chance to 'Kill Monk' (they didn't even maim Monk  

@msdos - you don't need to mess with mistertao to get the SHE3800, there's a specific site I think everyone has used for that - fasttech.com. Re the Asura 2, it responds fantastic to a bit of power, but doesn't demand it to sound great.


----------



## chinmie

danneq said:


> Well, CampFred is a big step up in every category. But considering the price difference it should be...
> 
> In my pair of TY32 (version 1) sub bass is good but covered up by a somewhat flabby mid bass.
> 
> Still, the straight plug TY32 have really good sub bass for an earbud. Especially a $5 earbud.




thanks, as a matter of fact just snatched the TY32 straight jack, waiting for delivery. gonna compare them to my TY32S




townyj said:


> Enjoy the Diomnes  amazing earbud. Will never part with mine.




Thanks! it just arrived from the mail, time for some testing. with these three, i think i'm satisfied (for now at least )


----------



## vapman

chinmie said:


> thanks, as a matter of fact just snatched the TY32 straight jack, waiting for delivery. gonna compare them to my TY32S
> Thanks! it just arrived from the mail, time for some testing. with these three, i think i'm satisfied (for now at least )


 
 Is that a rhodium jack demun?


----------



## Fabi

Nice collection chinmie


----------



## chinmie

vapman said:


> Is that a rhodium jack demun?




yes sir  using it with thin monk foams



fabi said:


> Nice collection chinmie




thanks Fabi


----------



## vapman

chinmie said:


> yes sir
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have to ask did you do it yourself or did you buy it like that?
 there was no rhodium plug available when i bought mine.
 i love the sound of mine but it is just a switchcraft or neutrik silver 3.5mm covered in heatshrink on mine, so nothing too special.
  
 you tempt me to replace my demun's jack sir!!!!!


----------



## chinmie

vapman said:


> I have to ask did you do it yourself or did you buy it like that?
> there was no rhodium plug available when i bought mine.
> i love the sound of mine but it is just a switchcraft or neutrik silver 3.5mm covered in heatshrink on mine, so nothing too special.
> 
> you tempt me to replace my demun's jack sir!!!!!




ooo, i'm sorry, i misread your post, i thought you were asking about the edimun! 

i bought the red demun like that. i don't know what type it is. it's carbon jack with gold plated color. here is the close up


----------



## vapman

chinmie said:


> ooo, i'm sorry, i misread your post, i thought you were asking about the edimun!
> 
> i bought the red demun like that. i don't know what type it is. it's carbon jack with gold plated color. here is the close up


 
 ah, there is a rhodium jack i have some of that looks just like that but silver, it didn't look so gold in the other pic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 thanks for the pic bro!
 maybe they ran out of demun logo heatshrink. haha


----------



## luedriver

just curious does anyone know of any recabled senn mx170's ?
  
 I found an image on instagram when searching but it gave up no info, and was probably a self diy...
  
 I keep imagining that they would sound better with monk candy cables or some cygnus cables, or just some thicker oxygen free copper
  
 if it exists I guess they would be like the mx760's that sometimes pop up on ali...


----------



## Saoshyant

MEMT X3 earbud:  QC issues from the start, considering I actually managed to cut myself on the earbud.  Gotta say that's a first.


----------



## ozkan

Has anyone tried Akg Y15?


----------



## Saoshyant

ozkan said:


> Has anyone tried Akg Y15?




One thread here says original Monk outperforms


----------



## ozkan

saoshyant said:


> One thread here says original Monk outperforms




I have a K319 and really loved the midrange clarity and treble especially the treble quality/quantity. It puts both my Monk/Monk+ to shame. I need something which sounds similar or better than K319 because they are my friend's earbuds.

Can you share the thread's link please?


----------



## yacobx

How is the k 300?


----------



## yacobx

golov17 said:


> PureSounds PS64




Is this good without foam?


----------



## PureSounds-cn

Long time no see ，everybody


----------



## yacobx

puresounds-cn said:


> Long time no see ，everybody




Yo


----------



## PureSounds-cn

yacobx said:


> Is this good without foam?



We gonna make it available on ALiExpress soon and carry out promotion,
That is PS100-600(30 pcs),109 buck;
PS100-500(20 PCS),79 buck;
PS100-260(10 PCS),49 Buck; USD


----------



## petan970

puresounds-cn said:


> yacobx said:
> 
> 
> > Is this good without foam?
> ...




At which Ali seller for this promotion price?


----------



## flamesofarctica

My thoughts on the K's 300 earbuds.

Firstly I'm no expert in this stuff, and so I'd really like to see somebody elses opinions on these.. especially because - for the price in particular - I think these might be really rather good.

I'm trying to be cautious, because it really feels like in the last 6 months, the number of earbuds available has increased at a rapid rate, almost like they're throwing them out as fast as they can with the hope that something sticks.

Here goes. I've used them with the Walnut, and also on the XDuoo X3 using the FIIO A3 amp. I think I've already mentioned when they first arrived, they seem a bit harder to drive than for example the TY HP400S, which surprised me.

Looks wise, the cable isn't especially attractive, but not flimsy either and everything seems quite soundly built.

Sound wise - I've done my best to give them a good run through a variety of music styles, but it's mostly been rock/metal as that's what I know & love. And I must say, they haven't really let me down on anything.

Theyre not bass heavy, but what is there seems good. The mids are pleasant, it's all quite upfront rather than laid back, but not too in your face either. Good enough that I tried listening without foams and liked what I heard, and haven't put the foams back on. No harshness that I associate with quite a few of the recent low price 'monk killers'! If there was, there's no way I'd be able to listen without foams. But not as laid back as most of the earbuds I'd put at the top of my list..They fall just below my harsh threshold :-D

There's something I can't pinpoint which reminds me a bit of the Zen 2. Now, I'm not going to claim it's in that kind of league, or in the league of the top TY earbuds either, it's absolutely not, it's less than 1/6 of the price of the Zen 2 and around 1/3 the price of the TY HP400S for good reason IMO. But it's really very listenable and almost speaker-like when used without foams, and both male and female vocals sound terrific to my ears.

On the topic of bass - the bassiest stuff I have is a bit of Justin Timberlake and Beastie Boys, so someone else would need to make a more definitive judgement. I suppose my song for judging bass is probably Brass Monkey on Licensed to Ill, and I tried that one out - all sounded decent to me, not massive but definitely there. 

Overall I think it's the cheapest earbud that's a definite level above the budget buds, if that makes sense.

But again I really don't trust myself to be the best judge..you might all hate it!!

Apologies for the length of this btw - I burnt my tea writing it so I hope someone reads it haha


----------



## Majin

Are the sony 808+ out of stock? Can't find them anymore.


----------



## vapman

@flamesofarctica
 Sorry to burn your tea bro 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But those are some good impressions of k's 300.
 Does it still rattle a lot if the cable moves while you're listening? I know other k's has microphonics problems.


----------



## ctaxxxx

So my Blue Demun's came in! Some initial impressions and comparisons:
  
 VS* Red Demun:* A touch brighter than the Red. Treble and detail retrieval is better. Mids are still forward, but now there is a little sibilance too. The only disappointment is the bass feels much thinner. Gives a very clean sound though. Also, love the look of the Blue more.
  
 VS* Shozy BK:* According to other impressions and the site description, I figured the BDs would sound similar to the BK. However, after a direct comparison, the BK still come out on top. Same detail retrieval, same vocal emphasis, BUT without the sibilance and thinner bass. Seems the BK takes the best qualities of both the Red and Blue Demun's. Reminded me of why I love the BK so much.


----------



## flamesofarctica

vapman said:


> @flamesofarctica
> 
> Sorry to burn your tea bro
> But those are some good impressions of k's 300.
> Does it still rattle a lot if the cable moves while you're listening? I know other k's has microphonics problems.




Only if I really waggle it but could be I have it on too loud to tell right now (bit of Metallica blasting :-D )

Ok turned it down a bit..Only if I flick it or shake it, but there's an easy fix for that  {not flicking it etc}


----------



## vapman

flamesofarctica said:


> Only if I really waggle it but could be I have it on too loud to tell right now (bit of Metallica blasting :-D )


 
 OK cool, I remember a lot of k's 500 owners said even when music is playing loud, the cable knocks against the housing really loudly.


----------



## flamesofarctica

vapman said:


> OK cool, I remember a lot of k's 500 owners said even when music is playing loud, the cable knocks against the housing really loudly.


 Just looked at the wire for the K's 500 and it looks like a stiff braided cable, whereas the K's 300 is more like a poor man's Zen 2 cable but silver instead of red and less sticky (looks not unlike a soft plastic coated metal shower flex hose, and to the touch not unlike a KZ cable)


As an aside...Looks like my Yinman 150 I ordered 2 weeks ago are in AliExpress limbo courtesy of AK Audio. Distinctly unimpressed...


----------



## ClieOS

K's 500ohm cable isn't stiff at all. The reason of cable noise / microphonic is purely because the lack of strain relief. There is a way to fix it,  by simply gluing the cable to the housing. However care must be taken as you must leave some room for air to vent or else the sound is ruined. But if you do it right, the cable noise issue will be fixed.


----------



## vapman

From what I had heard people say, I assumed it was a straight wire down from the driver with no kind of restraint. Thanks for clarifying that @ClieOS .


----------



## flamesofarctica

clieos said:


> K's 500ohm cable isn't stiff at all. The reason of cable noise / microphonic is purely because the lack of strain relief. There is a way to fix it,  by simply gluing the cable to the housing. However care must be taken as you must leave some room for air to vent or else the sound is ruined. But if you do it right, the cable noise issue will be fixed.




Ah I see. Just spotted they're on your champions list as well, so they can't be too bad :-D

Have you tried the K's 300 by any chance, would love to hear your opinion on them


----------



## kfarndog

danneq said:


> As long as you don't push the volume to the maximum - Cypherus CampFred. Best and deepest bass I've heard in a pair of low impedance earbuds. They cost $150 without shipping. People who have used CampFred with mobile phones have not been overly impressed but out of a good DAP CampFred can really impress you.



 


I will add a second vote for the CampFred. Excellent out of most sources.


----------



## edsel400

@ flamesofarctica
Sorry to divert the topic.
I noticed that you have the xduoo X3 and Fiio A3 combo as well. Is it normal that X3 alone is even louder than attached to the A3 at low gain? Looks like the onboard amp on X3 sounds louder than A3, except in high gain. 

Thanks!


----------



## black9white

Have to say bye bye to one of the best earbuds I have tried, might aswell give my feedback on them 
  
 To me they have somewhat of a neutral sound and their mids are one of the best out of all the earbuds (donuts or full foams will affect bass and treble), I tried also the rose masya but sadly their comfort level was worse (they keep falling off my ears).
  
 They are headphone level earbuds


----------



## flamesofarctica

edsel400 said:


> @ flamesofarctica
> Sorry to divert the topic.
> I noticed that you have the xduoo X3 and Fiio A3 combo as well. Is it normal that X3 alone is even louder than attached to the A3 at low gain? Looks like the onboard amp on X3 sounds louder than A3, except in high gain.
> 
> Thanks!




If I'm understanding right...I've just tried 50% volume on Xduoo on high gain, and compared with connected to the Fiio via line out, with the Fiio on low gain and turned to 50%. Was louder through the Amp, quite a bit. However I've then tried the same but full volume not 50% in each case (earphones not in ears and my teeth gritted hoping they don't break). Was louder through the Xduoo alone than via the Fiio on low gain. Does that answer your question?

I think (and could be wrong) that the point of amping is not just about the volume but the power flowing through, but have no idea how that works. Someone more scientific might be able to help although this might not be the right thread (unless someone is feeling generous, as it relates I suppose to powering high impedence earbuds - to make it on topic :-D).

(I think I break the rules anyway.. I connect from my Xduoo headphone socket to the Fiio with both on high gain. I have the Fiio close to full, and use my Xduoo volume then to set the level I want. This probably is wrong but I like how it sounds!!)


----------



## Saoshyant

Apparently I have a package waiting at the Post Office from Indonesia. So that means the custom earbuds are in, but have to wait for Monday.


----------



## flamesofarctica

saoshyant said:


> Apparently I have a package waiting at the Post Office from Indonesia. So that means the custom earbuds are in, but have to wait for Monday.




How I feel about this...
https://www.ohnuts.com/showImage.cfm/extra-large/IMG_1510.jpg


----------



## purplesun

flamesofarctica said:


> How I feel about this...
> https://www.ohnuts.com/showImage.cfm/extra-large/IMG_1510.jpg


 
  
 Akan Datang! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




_(I think I got that right, I hope)_
  
 Edit:
 Heh! Right lingo, wrong guy!
 Should have been @Saoshyant


----------



## yacobx

flamesofarctica said:


> My thoughts on the K's 300 earbuds.
> 
> Firstly I'm no expert in this stuff, and so I'd really like to see somebody elses opinions on these.. especially because - for the price in particular - I think these might be really rather good.
> 
> ...




Thanks man, I appreciate your thoughts


----------



## SuperMAG

black9white said:


> Have to say bye bye to one of the best earbuds I have tried, might aswell give my feedback on them
> 
> To me they have somewhat of a neutral sound and their mids are one of the best out of all the earbuds (donuts or full foams will affect bass and treble), I tried also the rose masya but sadly their comfort level was worse (they keep falling off my ears).
> 
> They are headphone level earbuds




Which are those?


----------



## chinmie

ctaxxxx said:


> So my Blue Demun's came in! Some initial impressions and comparisons:
> 
> VS *Red Demun:* A touch brighter than the Red. Treble and detail retrieval is better. Mids are still forward, but now there is a little sibilance too. The only disappointment is the bass feels much thinner. Gives a very clean sound though. Also, love the look of the Blue more.




+1 to that. i have the same impression about the red vs blue


----------



## ClieOS

flamesofarctica said:


> Ah I see. Just spotted they're on your champions list as well, so they can't be too bad :-D
> 
> Have you tried the K's 300 by any chance, would love to hear your opinion on them




Haven't heard any other K yet. There are simply too many earbuds to try these days.


----------



## Raketen

supermag said:


> Which are those?




Shozy BK/Stardust and Opus#1 player.


----------



## Townyj

Crow Audio Raven ordered  waiting begins!


----------



## TheXsjado

Hello everybody, does anyone know about a flat signature pair of earbuds? That could be used for monitoring for instance? Thank you!


----------



## golov17

thexsjado said:


> Hello everybody, does anyone know about a flat signature pair of earbuds? That could be used for monitoring for instance? Thank you!


Puresounds500 classic ver


----------



## kartik7405

thexsjado said:


> Hello everybody, does anyone know about a flat signature pair of earbuds? That could be used for monitoring for instance? Thank you!


 
 Ty hi-z 650.


----------



## mochill

thexsjado said:


> Hello everybody, does anyone know about a flat signature pair of earbuds? That could be used for monitoring for instance? Thank you!


puresounds ps600


----------



## ProLoL

Anyone has any experience with these? http://mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/534019877589.html
  
 I've ordered the TY Hi-Z 650 by now and was wondering why the mistertao earbuds was titled as "Extraordinary Sound" on page 1.


----------



## kartik7405

prolol said:


> I've ordered the TY Hi-Z 650 by now.


 
 Also order a pair of heigi foam(Solid one not donut) ;it complements well with ty hi-z 650.
  
 http://penonaudio.com/Hiegi-White-Foam-Cushions.


----------



## ProLoL

kartik7405 said:


> Also order a pair of heigi foam(Solid one not donut) ;it complements well with ty hi-z 650.
> 
> http://penonaudio.com/Hiegi-White-Foam-Cushions.


 
 Thanks, I have the donuts that someone recommended for my MX985 which wasn't for my liking. I like them fully covered.
 By the way, would the Hi Z 650 be a big step up from the MX985 which I already like?


----------



## Saoshyant

prolol said:


> Thanks, I have the donuts that someone recommended for my MX985 which wasn't for my liking. I like them fully covered.
> By the way, would the Hi Z 650 be a big step up from the MX985 which I already like?


 
  
 It all depends on taste at this point.  I enjoyed the MX985 for awhile, but the further I got into this hobby, the more I realized it didn't suit me.  Honestly, if someone were to offer to trade me a Yinman 600 for it, I think I'd do it.


----------



## teston

golov17 said:


> Puresounds500 classic ver



Sir, How is PS500 compare to Yinman 500?


----------



## golov17

teston said:


> Sir, How is PS500 compare to Yinman 500?


i'm at work now, later i will compare..


----------



## Saoshyant

So those with the high ohm earbuds, looking at you 500 & 600 users, are you finding any difficulty using daps without amps, or are they just not holding up?  I keep feeling a little apprehensive jumping to the upper ohm range as virtually 100% of listening is done from daps for me.  I know both Zens feel like they're at the upper limit of what my Opus #1 can do, but I can always use the Supermini more if that's an issue.


----------



## ClieOS

prolol said:


> Anyone has any experience with these? http://mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/534019877589.html
> 
> I've ordered the TY Hi-Z 650 by now and *was wondering why the mistertao earbuds was titled as "Extraordinary Sound" on page 1.*


 
  
 Because "Extraordinary Sound" is the actual English brand name which the maker of 舜仕01B has chosen to put onto its box.
  

  
 This is one of those earbuds that truly defines the meaning of stiff cable. I'll recommend skipping it as the sound quality, while decently good, is not enough to offset its impracticable cable.


----------



## ProLoL

clieos said:


> Because "Extraordinary Sound" is the actual English brand name which the maker of 舜仕01B has chosen to put onto its box.
> 
> 
> 
> This is one of those earbuds that truly defines the meaning of stiff cable. I'll recommend skipping it as the sound quality, while decently good, is not enough to offset its impracticable cable.


 
 Oh thanks! I'm on my mission to get that "extraordinary sound" and I almost purchased these hehe.


----------



## Saoshyant

Yep, I'm avoiding that thing like the plague then.


----------



## weedophile

Gave the TY32 L shaped plug another chance by wrapping them with the porous Monk ex pack foams over 2 layers of thick stock foams provided which was the combination that i used for other MX500 shells. Boy the sound was pretty surprising for me. Seperation was more apparent, trebles are more refined, dont sound as laid back as before tho the bass is still lacking.
  
 Any idea how do we get a better fit by adding another layer of foams over? As sometimes adding another layer muffles the sound abit to much, but in this case with the porous pain in the a$s monk foams it works well. My other method for the SHE3800 is to use the rubber ring on the bare body itself before using 2 layers of donut foams and for the Qian39 its a layer of full thick foam, rubber ring and a layer of donut foam.
  
 Edit: When i got the Monk+ the first time, i was using 2 layers of the porous foams but found it didnt gave the best fit for me and i must emphasise how much of a pain it was to get them on


----------



## ozkan

weedophile said:


> Gave the TY32 L shaped plug another chance by wrapping them with the porous Monk ex pack foams over 2 layers of thick stock foams provided which was the combination that i used for other MX500 shells. Boy the sound was pretty surprising for me. Seperation was more apparent, trebles are more refined, dont sound as laid back as before tho the bass is still lacking.
> 
> Any idea how do we get a better fit by adding another layer of foams over? As sometimes adding another layer muffles the sound abit to much, but in this case with the porous pain in the a$s monk foams it works well. My other method for the SHE3800 is to use the rubber ring on the bare body itself before using 2 layers of donut foams and for the Qian39 its a layer of full thick foam, rubber ring and a layer of donut foam.
> 
> Edit: When i got the Monk+ the first time, i was using 2 layers of the porous foams but found it didnt gave the best fit for me and i must emphasise how much of a pain it was to get them on :mad:




Oh you must have extra large ears man. 3 layers of foam and rings OMG


----------



## weedophile

ozkan said:


> Oh you must have extra large ears man. 3 layers of foam and rings OMG


 

 Ahahah no bro, its only 2 layers for both the Qian39 and SHE3800. No rings for the MX500 shells, just 2 layers of thick foams and a layer of Monk foam. But i probably got some large ear holes lmao
  
 Edit: And the Qian is quite uncomfortable after long wear, but i am still confused as to why the SHE3800 dont give the same problem after extended usage as the body seem similar in size as the MX500 shell


----------



## Ira Delphic

saoshyant said:


> So those with the high ohm earbuds, looking at you 500 & 600 users, are you finding any difficulty using daps without amps, or are they just not holding up?  I keep feeling a little apprehensive jumping to the upper ohm range as virtually 100% of listening is done from daps for me.  I know both Zens feel like they're at the upper limit of what my Opus #1 can do, but I can always use the Supermini more if that's an issue.




I think you miss the "sweet spot" when using underpowered dap with high Ohm, low sensitivity earbud. A powerful without having to turn volume to excessive level produces optimal sq. Anyone disagree?


----------



## Joy Boy

Sorry to bother, i just wanna share.

It's so frustated when i already had my own champion and favourite earbud, but then it got beaten by a loaned one.
I'm not a big fans of mx985 stock. It's a great bud but IMO, a little bit overprice for its sound. (And its neutral sound bored me)
But this re-modded mx985 really kills, not only my current best bud (ve zen v1), but also all of earbud that i've had and tried before.
Damn, i really want it. It definitely be my newest king of bud. Unfortunately it's not mine


----------



## Saoshyant

ira delphic said:


> I think you miss the "sweet spot" when using underpowered dap with high Ohm, low sensitivity earbud. A powerful without having to turn volume to excessive level produces optimal sq. Anyone disagree?




Thing is, I'm unaware of the sensitivity of the various high-ohm earbuds. Plus while it may not be optimal, as long as I enjoy it that's all that matters to me. I know for earbuds the Zens are kind of hard to drive and the Supermini for me is 20/32 on volume or so.


----------



## teston

After some days of use, Yinman 150 quickly become my favorite buds. Good bass, not too slamming, not too soft, enough quantity to me, go deep enough, spacious and smooth overall. Good details retrieval, extended and non fatigue treb. Mid is thick and lush, sometimes strange but tasty for my ears. It sounds good right out of xduoo x3. It's now my on the go buds. 
Very curious of Yinman higher end earbuds, I may go for Yinman 500 ohm or even 600 ohm after read some more reviews on these.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

weedophile said:


> My other method for the SHE3800 is to use the rubber ring on the bare body itself before using 2 layers of donut foams and for the Qian39 its a layer of full thick foam, rubber ring and a layer of donut foam.


 
 Where do we buy these rubber rings? You guys are sound scientists because I've never heard of anyone using so many foams.


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

I put my Asura 1.0 drivers into the housing of my Yinman 150ohms since the Yinmans sound so bad but the Asura is fantastic


----------



## kvad

laughmoredaily said:


> Where do we buy these rubber rings? You guys are sound scientists because I've never heard of anyone using so many foams.


 
  
 I've bought these ones (although from a different seller). They're still rather expensive at about USD 2 / pair. Would be interested to know if anyone knows a cheaper source. The EX pack for the Monk Plus is a good source too, but I have enough Monks by now : )


----------



## rkw

saoshyant said:


> So those with the high ohm earbuds, looking at you 500 & 600 users, are you finding any difficulty using daps without amps, or are they just not holding up?


 
  
 I can't speak for other high ohm earbuds, but the Yinman 600 has low sensitivity. On my Jotunheim I have to crank up the volume far more than any other earbud, to about the level as for my Sennheiser HD650 (which is known for being power hungry). I don't own a portable dap, but the Yinman 600 straight from a MacBook Pro loses a lot of life (not sure if it's the dac, amp or both). I think the HD650 might be a good reference point — if your dap can't drive an HD650, it might not work well for the Yinman 600.


----------



## teston

rkw said:


> I can't speak for other high ohm earbuds, but the Yinman 600 has low sensitivity. On my Jotunheim I have to crank up the volume far more than any other earbud, to about the level as for my Sennheiser HD650 (which is known for being power hungry). I don't own a portable dap, but the Yinman 600 straight from a MacBook Pro loses a lot of life (not sure if it's the dac, amp or both). I think the HD650 might be a good reference point — if your dap can't drive an HD650, it might not work well for the Yinman 600.



Hi rkw,can you give in more information about the sound signature of the Yinman 600?


----------



## chinmie

joy boy said:


> Sorry to bother, i just wanna share.
> 
> It's so frustated when i already had my own champion and favourite earbud, but then it got beaten by a loaned one.
> I'm not a big fans of mx985 stock. It's a great bud but IMO, a little bit overprice for its sound. (And its neutral sound bored me)
> ...




what mods were done to it?


----------



## purplesun

laughmoredaily said:


> Where do we buy these rubber rings? You guys are sound scientists because I've never heard of anyone using so many foams.


 


kvad said:


> I've bought these ones (although from a different seller). They're still rather expensive at about USD 2 / pair. Would be interested to know if anyone knows a cheaper source. The EX pack for the Monk Plus is a good source too, but I have enough Monks by now : )


 
 On taobao:
 https://world.taobao.com/item/543924613329.htm?scm=1007.12679.24488.543924613329


----------



## Joy Boy

chinmie said:


> what mods were done to it?



i dont know what exactly he has done to it. He only said that he recabled with copper cable and reterminate it with oyaide rhodium-plated connector.
But the sound change drastically from stock


----------



## weedophile

purplesun said:


> On taobao:
> https://world.taobao.com/item/543924613329.htm?scm=1007.12679.24488.543924613329




Bro that's the cheapest i see compared to what's on AE

LaughMoreDaily got mine from the Monk+ EX pack, 2 pairs in it and that is my only 2 pairs -.-


----------



## vapman

joy boy said:


> i dont know what exactly he has done to it. He only said that he recabled with copper cable and reterminate it with oyaide rhodium-plated connector.
> But the sound change drastically from stock




Sounds like my kind of mod. If i ever find a cheap one for sale in need of repair I'll give it the whole treatment...


----------



## Joy Boy

vapman said:


> Sounds like my kind of mod. If i ever find a cheap one for sale in need of repair I'll give it the whole treatment...



But we talked about mx985. It shivers me even with just thinking about it. Too risky.
But the outcome is terrific. I'm crazy about it now


----------



## Frederick Wang

ctaxxxx said:


> So my Blue Demun's came in! Some initial impressions and comparisons:
> 
> VS* Red Demun:* A touch brighter than the Red. Treble and detail retrieval is better. Mids are still forward, but now there is a little sibilance too. The only disappointment is the bass feels much thinner. Gives a very clean sound though. Also, love the look of the Blue more.
> 
> VS* Shozy BK:* According to other impressions and the site description, I figured the BDs would sound similar to the BK. However, after a direct comparison, the BK still come out on top. Same detail retrieval, same vocal emphasis, BUT without the sibilance and thinner bass. Seems the BK takes the best qualities of both the Red and Blue Demun's. Reminded me of why I love the BK so much.


 
 Hi @ctaxxxx 
 I see you have both CampFred and Shozy BK, can you make a comparison about the two? Thanks!


----------



## chinmie

Joy Boy man, this diomnes is something else.. it literally made me forget that i'm using an earbuds, not a full headphone. the only irk that i have about it is the cables really thin.. i'm afraid i might snap it if i pull it the wrong way....though the plus side is because it's really thin, it's so light that i don't feel them dangling.


----------



## irsan

chinmie said:


> @Joy Boy man, this diomnes is something else.. it literally made me forget that i'm using an earbuds, not a full headphone. the only irk that i have about it is the cables really thin.. i'm afraid i might snap it if i pull it the wrong way....though the plus side is because it's really thin, it's so light that i don't feel them dangling.


 
  
 Have you try this? Diomnes LV2, the upgraded version of standard diomnes.. I met with Mr. Peter Raharja last Saturday and try his diomnes LV2, this is a different beast.. compare to standard diomnes is like night and day. Diomnes Lv2 has better details retrieval, layering,soundstage, and sweet vocal...


----------



## Joy Boy

chinmie said:


> Joy Boy man, this diomnes is something else.. it literally made me forget that i'm using an earbuds, not a full headphone. the only irk that i have about it is the cables really thin.. i'm afraid i might snap it if i pull it the wrong way....though the plus side is because it's really thin, it's so light that i don't feel them dangling.



I trick it with adding some cable protector. Similar with the one that i used on my ve zen to avoid cable from oxydation. You should try dipios. It's the real beast. Unfortunately they only made 2 of them then stop produced it due to lack of some part.



irsan said:


> Have you try this? Diomnes LV2, the upgraded version of standard diomnes.. I met with Mr. Peter Raharja last Saturday and try his diomnes LV2, this is a different beast.. compare to standard diomnes is like night and day. Diomnes Lv2 has better details retrieval, layering,soundstage, and sweet vocal...



I already tried it before. Not too impressed with the sound. Maybe it just my prefference. I felt it too thick and a little bit veiled. Better vocal but less extend treble, IMO.
Or maybe because it came with dipios as demo unit, so i compared both of them. And dipios definitely killed it


----------



## irsan

joy boy said:


> I trick it with adding some cable protector. Similar with the one that i used on my ve zen to avoid cable from oxydation. You should try dipios. It's the real beast. Unfortunately they only made 2 of them then stop produced it due to lack of some part.
> I already tried it before. Not too impressed with the sound. Maybe it just my prefference. I felt it too thick and a little bit veiled. Better vocal but less extend treble, IMO.
> Or maybe because it came with dipios as demo unit, so i compared both of them. And dipios definitely killed it


 
 Maybe 
  
 I tried this vs diomnes standard version and very impressed with upgraded version.. it sounds more open and immersive.. 
  
 also tried k's500 v2, it has a nice bass and vocal, really good earbud


----------



## Frederick Wang

This is exciting, moondrop's Flagship earbud is on the horizon 
  
 Priced exactly as Mojito 
  

黄铜腔体，镀铬表面，厚镀银线材，超过1特斯拉的高能单元，独家的超薄复合振膜
Bronze housing, chrome-coated surface, thick silver-coated cable, >1 tesla driver, exclusive ultra-thin composite diaphragm...


----------



## golov17

frederick wang said:


> [rule]This is exciting, moondrop's Flagship earbud is on the horizon
> 
> Priced exactly as Mojito
> 
> ...


link?


----------



## yacobx

joy boy said:


> chinmie said:
> 
> 
> > Joy Boy man, this diomnes is something else.. it literally made me forget that i'm using an earbuds, not a full headphone. the only irk that i have about it is the cables really thin.. i'm afraid i might snap it if i pull it the wrong way....though the plus side is because it's really thin, it's so light that i don't feel them dangling.
> ...




Where is the dipios?


----------



## vapman

Diomnes lv2 still copper litz?


----------



## Frederick Wang

golov17 said:


> link?


 
 http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4997907705
 pretty much everything included in my post


----------



## Townyj

vapman said:


> Diomnes lv2 still copper litz?




Yeah copper litz. Stock is cardas litz, lvl.1 is less strands of the hybrid litz and as you can see the lvl 2 hybrid litz is pretty damn thick.

Directly from Hersang,

The Diomnes has 3 variant atm, the std version (with cardas 33ga), the upgraded Lv1 and upgraded Lv2. We decided to upgraded the cable using our best hybrid OCC litz and branded plugs.


----------



## luedriver

just got my mx365 today, out of the box, I measured them and found out they measure exactly the same as my mx170's that I have used for many hours with (both with foams, both measured today)
  
 this was weird, maybe a fully burned in mx170 is like a new mx365, maybe the "upgrade" was merely esthetic? idk
  
 I tried a tone sweep from 10Hz to 23500Hz (a sound file I downloaded somewhere) and heard something wrong, like when I got back my cygnus or a bit like how seahf 32 sounded like at certain frequencies without LONG burn in
  
  
 so I put the mx365 on the sansa burn in machine and don't know for how long to leave them there, 24 hrs minimum, 7 days maximum,
  
 I trust that they will smooth out and be able to play each frequency better without playing others at the same time


----------



## Joy Boy

yacobx said:


> Where is the dipios?



I dont own it. I tried it from demo unit they sent to me
Here's the pict:


----------



## Gideon Lim

joy boy said:


> I dont own it. I tried it from demo unit they sent to me
> Here's the pict:


 
 One of the earbud which make me impressed enough. The soundstage not that wide but the mid truly one of the beast, kind a unsual sound and the bass speed for japanese rock song really addictive.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Big Shout Out to @vapman

 A little while back, my son attempted to eat my beloved pair of Vido earbuds and destroyed them.  I learned a valuable lesson that day, keep ALL my earbuds out of his reach. 

 I then ordered a replacement Vido pair from MisterTao.  Only to get a pair DOA and they refused to refund me.

 Fast forward to now.  Vapman was kind enough to let me purchase some modded (and one stock) Vido earbuds from him.

 My versions were just re-cabling, no tunning, but he still did an amazing job. 


 In the photo below you will find from Left to Right:

*Vido (Copper Cable), Vido (Android Cable) and Vido (Stock).*
  

  
  
 All sound fantastic!  These are bass heavy earbuds, with a hint of detail.  They are fun, very enjoyable earbuds. 

 I'm just so happy to not only have a stock Vido again, but the wonderful re-cabled versions as well. 
  
  
 Again, I purchased these, as Vapman does not do review samples, so I feel it is only fair to put up his website:  www.bhobuds.com
  
 --


----------



## rkw

teston said:


> Hi rkw,can you give in more information about the sound signature of the Yinman 600?


 
  
 I wrote about Yinman 600 in this post (#17316). Its signature is neutral with a slight bass emphasis. Detailed smooth highs and wide soundstage. Strong, extended lows. Good realistic reproduction of live acoustic instruments, such as in classical music. Yinman 600 has become my primary desktop headphone at home. My HD650 is better, but I prefer wearing earbuds instead of a full size headphone.


----------



## vapman

@BloodyPenguin  I hope those three are enough to never let the Vido escape you again! The photo is awesome. Beats my potato shots by a few miles!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> @BloodyPenguin  I hope those three are enough to never let the Vido escape you again! The photo is awesome. Beats my potato shots by a few miles!


 
  
 Three should hold me over for a few days I think.  Ha.
  
 I've been using the Android Cable version a lot, as it works perfectly for controlling my FiiO X1 2nd Gen.  Bass is bumpin'! 
  
 --


----------



## Robert Turnbull

Hi All!
  
 I have recently started getting into Earbuds moving from IEMS (Current fav is LZ-A4).
  
 I have bought a few of the budget models to see my preference and this is how i rank them so far:
  
 1) Qian39 (Nice warm sound, very comfy, crap cable)
 2) **** PT15 (Has bass, but no impact, nice natural sound)
 3) Monk+ (Nice overall balance, less bass than Quian39)
  
 I have a 808+ lost in the post somewhere, Bud that came with my Benjie K9 that seems impossible to drive and a RY04 which is a bit rubbish (looked nice lol).
  
 My sources:
  
 Laptop (EQ off)
 Laptop + Fiio Q1 (No EQ)
 Benjie K9 (Jazz EQ)
 Shanling M1 (No EQ)
  
 Am looking for an earbud with the warm feel of the Qian39 but also with better overall clarity, budget is around $100. (And a cable that doesn't feel that it will snap from the weight of the bud!)
  
 I have had my eye on the TY-400 but am not sure of the impedance wrt my sources.
  
 Here are some of my choices I have narrowed down, but not limited to:
  
 -) Shozy Cygnus (~$90) - hard to find 3.5 SE.
 -) MM TY2 (~$90)
 -) Monk Asura 2 (~$90) - 2.5 TRRS + 3.5 SE adapter
 -) 1more hybrid (~$80)
  
 -) K's 500 (not sure for impedance)
 -) TY 400/s/se (not sure for impedance)
  
 -) 1more EO320 ($30) + some more budgets like she3800/quian25 etc + yinman 150 ($30)


----------



## Raketen

robert turnbull said:


> Hi All!
> Am looking for an earbud with the warm feel of the Qian39 but also with better overall clarity, budget is around $100. (And a cable that doesn't feel that it will snap from the weight of the bud!)
> 
> I have had my eye on the TY-400 but am not sure of the impedance wrt my sources.
> ...




I'd recommend stay away from the MM TY2 if you like the warm feels (It has nice clarity specifically for vocal/acoustic, but little warmth, at least relative to my notion of the term)


----------



## music4mhell

raketen said:


> robert turnbull said:
> 
> 
> > Hi All!
> ...


 
 Also MM2 doesn't fir at all.. not at all


----------



## Robert Turnbull

raketen said:


> I'd recommend stay away from the MM TY2 if you like the warm feels (It has nice clarity specifically for vocal/acoustic, but little warmth, at least relative to my notion of the term)


 
 I always thought warm = towards the bassy side and bright = towards the trebly side.. I would class the Qian39 'warmer' than the monk+ if that makes sense.. My visualised sound shape would be \__ but a *slight* V or \_/ shape with bass + treble clarity is my goal


----------



## purplesun

robert turnbull said:


> Am looking for an earbud with the warm feel of the Qian39 but also with better overall clarity, budget is around $100. (And a cable that doesn't feel that it will snap from the weight of the bud!)


 
  
 If you like the Qian39, re-cable the Qian39. With the existing skinny cable, it won't be difficult finding another cable to improve on the qualities that you mentioned and keep the same sound signature.


----------



## teston

golov17 said:


> i'm at work now, later i will compare..



 

Sure, I'm looking for it




rkw said:


> I wrote about Yinman 600 in this post (#17316). Its signature is neutral with a slight bass emphasis. Detailed smooth highs and wide soundstage. Strong, extended lows. Good realistic reproduction of live acoustic instruments, such as in classical music. Yinman 600 has become my primary desktop headphone at home. My HD650 is better, but I prefer wearing earbuds instead of a full size headphone.



 

Thank you very much! Very nice impressions!


----------



## chinmie

irsan said:


> Have you try this? Diomnes LV2



 no i haven't, now i'm curious about the sound.. 



joy boy said:


> I trick it with adding some cable protector. Similar with the one that i used on my ve zen to avoid cable from oxydation. You should try dipios. It's the real beast. Unfortunately they only made 2 of them then stop produced it due to lack of some part.
> I already tried it before. Not too impressed with the sound. Maybe it just my prefference. I felt it too thick and a little bit veiled. Better vocal but less extend treble, IMO.
> Or maybe because it came with dipios as demo unit, so i compared both of them. And dipios definitely killed it




was that impression based on comparison with the regular diomnes or the dipios? btw, my diomnes is the yellow and black thin cable, so i guess it is the version 2, level 1?


----------



## Fabi

I guess you have Diomnes version 2 standard, level 1 and 2 have hybrid litz cable.


----------



## Saoshyant

BloodyPenguin Was hoping to beat you to getting one of vapman's buds.


----------



## Nachash

Got some new earbuds today, the "philips" something and the "sony" something else

  
  
 will try them later and post the real names


----------



## weedophile

My sis got me a generic solder at 220v 40w. Can this be used for earbuds DIY? It just happened that i ordered from AE the same time, but with adjustable temp.

And i got the soldering wire which is 40/60 hence i am not entirely sure if it can be used too as i read somewhere 60/40 should be the alloy mix. Appreciate if someone can enlighten me!


----------



## AkashS04

Did you try *UiiSii U2*? How are they? Any review if you can post? I am liking them due to Flat Cable but not sure how is the sound quality. Any review or comparison with other popular earbuds will be highly appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## chinmie

fabi said:


> I guess you have Diomnes version 2 standard, level 1 and 2 have hybrid litz cable.


 
 thanks for the info, now if only i could compare mine to the level 1 and 2....


----------



## vapman

weedophile said:


> My sis got me a generic solder at 220v 40w. Can this be used for earbuds DIY? It just happened that i ordered from AE the same time, but with adjustable temp.
> 
> And i got the soldering wire which is 40/60 hence i am not entirely sure if it can be used too as i read somewhere 60/40 should be the alloy mix. Appreciate if someone can enlighten me!


 
 40w is fine, i use around 60-70w myself but i am a madman. Only should be pushing those extra watts when you only want to make contact for not even a second.
  
 If it's 60% tin 40% lead you're all good =)


----------



## weedophile

vapman said:


> 40w is fine, i use around 60-70w myself but i am a madman. Only should be pushing those extra watts when you only want to make contact for not even a second.
> 
> If it's 60% tin 40% lead you're all good =)


 
  
 I was kinda expecting ur reply vap bro 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Unfortunately that is 40 tin 60 lead. Shall hunt ard for some
  
 Edit: Apparently my fren have a roll, gonna steal some from him


----------



## vapman

weedophile said:


> I was kinda expecting ur reply vap bro
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hehehe glad I'm expected on these matters now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Honestly i would use the 40/60 you have and just try to use it anyway. Learning to work with the 40/60 will make you a better solderer. Why, you may ask? Because the 40/60 will take way longer to settle (solidify from liquid state) than 60/40, this both gives you a little more time to fix it if a wire moves, and you will learn better patience. IF you learn 40/60 then move to 60/40 it will feel like you're cheating!


----------



## weedophile

vapman said:


> Hehehe glad I'm expected on these matters now
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ahh damn, if only i dont have to wake up in the wee hours for work tmr i might do it now! Nvm i hope i get to knock off earlier and give it a go tmr then.
  
 Am excited lol


----------



## herzhz

My Dipios sense is tingling. You summoned me, i'm summoned out.




 Anyway, for metal lovers, i just found out a hidden gem here in Indonesian DIY earbuds world. Its not our product, rather a newcomer's, but this buds is seriously a metalheads gems. And now he's peeking behind that iphone.

 Good night


----------



## herzhz

fabi said:


> I guess you have Diomnes version 2 standard, level 1 and 2 have hybrid litz cable.


 

 And yes, Lv1 and Lv2 are using Hybrid SIlver Copper OCC litz cable. Its really an awesome cable, the only downside are the break in needs quite a loong time.

 arent they cute :3
  
 Sorry for the dual post^^


----------



## mochill

If anyone is interested in the black editions then pm me , only USA please.


----------



## irsan

herzhz said:


> My Dipios sense is tingling. You summoned me, i'm summoned out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Is that rajapedesh? 

Thanks


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, the package I've been awaiting has arrived, and I will post some pictures later.  I will say these are without a doubt the most gorgeous earbuds I own.  Let's get the one negative out of the way, it's microphonic.  I can walk around without noticing it, but I would not go for heavy activity.  Out of the box impressions are vocally forward earbuds with decent bass.  Kind of imagine a Cygnus with the Sony E808+'s bass alongside, and yes the vocals keep ahead of that bass with no issues.  And as an added bonus, the lovely crafter who's going with Uairekko as the company name included a second earbud.  Going to spend my last two hours before sleep with the first earbud to try to get a better feel.


----------



## weedophile

Edit, reposted in DIY earbuds thread


----------



## Joy Boy

chinmie said:


> no i haven't, now i'm curious about the sound..
> was that impression based on comparison with the regular diomnes or the dipios? btw, my diomnes is the yellow and black thin cable, so i guess it is the version 2, level 1?



I never tried v1. But v2 has thicker, more lush and fuller sound than original one. My diomnes is from the first batch and reterminated with original viablue gold-plated connector.




saoshyant said:


> Well, the package I've been awaiting has arrived, and I will post some pictures later.  I will say these are without a doubt the most gorgeous earbuds I own.  Let's get the one negative out of the way, it's microphonic.  I can walk around without noticing it, but I would not go for heavy activity.  Out of the box impressions are vocally forward earbuds with decent bass.  Kind of imagine a Cygnus with the Sony E808+'s bass alongside, and yes the vocals keep ahead of that bass with no issues.  And as an added bonus, the lovely crafter who's going with Uairekko as the company name included a second earbud.  Going to spend my last two hours before sleep with the first earbud to try to get a better feel.



Wow. Is it that candy bud?
I really wanna hear your impression. I tried to hold myself not to buy it before i know where the sound goes to. From the appearance itself looks promising and beautiful.


----------



## CharlesRievone

herzhz said:


> Anyway, for metal lovers, i just found out a hidden gem here in Indonesian DIY earbuds world. Its not our product, rather a newcomer's, but this buds is seriously a metalheads gems. And now he's peeking behind that iphone.
> 
> Good night


 
 As a metalhead, you piqued my interest. More info on this please


----------



## Saoshyant

joy boy said:


> Wow. Is it that candy bud?
> I really wanna hear your impression. I tried to hold myself not to buy it before i know where the sound goes to. From the appearance itself looks promising and beautiful.


 
  
 Yep, it's the candy bud.  I was asked about the sound sig I prefer and pointed out my preference for a decent bass, so it really does feel like a custom job.  I'll try to post a real impression soon, but I'm very impressed out of the box so far.  I do admittedly have a bad habit of loving new toys, but will certainly admit if something's not to my liking.  The sound is very enveloping & immersive, so given my bad sense for sound stage, that could give you all a bit of an answer on that.


----------



## chinmie

joy boy said:


> I never tried v1. But v2 has thicker, more lush and fuller sound than original one. My diomnes is from the first batch and reterminated with original viablue gold-plated connector.




hmmm.... thicker in what frequency? if it's in the mid lows.. i think i won't like it because mine is already a little bit "too full" sometimes on some songs.


----------



## herzhz

irsan said:


> Is that rajapedesh?
> 
> Thanks







charlesrievone said:


> As a metalhead, you piqued my interest. More info on this please




Somebody already answered it. 
Its name are literally "king of spicyness", good luck.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Man, all this talk and pics of the Diomnes earbuds makes me wish I could grab one now. I know Danneq holds it in high regards when compared to the Cypherus lineup.


----------



## Nachash

Ugh, the sound of those Philips (SHE3010) is horrible for now
  
 Btw, how much were the h185? They're out of stock and they were in my cart, but I can't remember the price
  
 edit. Those Sony are pretty good though, a little muddy but nice (and they were pretty cheap too, I'm talking about the MDR-E808+)


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

nachash said:


> Ugh, the sound of those Philips (SHE3010) is horrible for now


 
 That's sad to hear.  I bought a pair as well. But I did so out of nostalgia because I believe I've owned them before...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

ctaxxxx said:


> Man, all this talk and pics of the Diomnes earbuds makes me wish I could grab one now. I know Danneq holds it in high regards when compared to the Cypherus lineup.


 
 Sometimes the best things need a waiting period to make them even more special... start saving your pennies (or start panhandling) and one day soon, they'll be in your mailbox.


----------



## Nachash

laughmoredaily said:


> That's sad to hear.  I bought a pair as well. But I did so out of nostalgia because I believe I've owned them before...


 

 Unless you bought them from China you're probably confusing them with another pair from Philips, these are not official Philips earbuds.


----------



## golov17

teston said:


> Sir, How is PS500 compare to Yinman 500?


 well, Yinman500 sounds a little brighter, clearer and faster against PS500 Classic, which have a bias in the LF, warmer sound and more bloated bass and roll off trebles, IMHO


----------



## Nachash

Ordered a pair of those unnamed DIY buds too, I should stop and save for the TY650/K500 ...
  
  
  
 Which earbuds are these? They're listed as DIY but they have the FAAREAL logo (anybody tried them?)


----------



## JASru

Guess who received K's 500 and plans to do 64-300-500 comparison?


----------



## golov17

nachash said:


> Ordered a pair of those unnamed DIY buds too, I should stop and save for the TY650/K500 ...
> 
> 
> 
> Which earbuds are these? They're listed as DIY but they have the FAAREAL logo (anybody tried them?)


yep, bright sig


----------



## knudsen

Quote:
  


robert turnbull said:


> Hi All!
> 
> I have recently started getting into Earbuds moving from IEMS (Current fav is LZ-A4).
> 
> ...


 
  
 I agree totally on your impressions (of those I own, 1 and 3). I feel pretty sure you'll love the SHE3800, its really really great, and have what you miss. Get this and save the 97 bucks for now


----------



## ctaxxxx

laughmoredaily said:


> Sometimes the best things need a waiting period to make them even more special... start saving your pennies (or start panhandling) and one day soon, they'll be in your mailbox.




Aren't the Diomnes sold out? I've got the pennies, just missed the sale. 

Though I do need to slow down since I will be getting the new Cypherus entry level buds now and Vapman convinced me to get the MAG-7 basshead buds. Still waiting for the FiiO X5 III to release as well! 

After all that, I'll be on a purchasing hiatus. Planning to write up a large comparison list of the earbuds I own in my profile, then sell the ones that aren't up to par. I've already been selling a bunch of other things recently (both audio and non-audio related).


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

ctaxxxx said:


> After all that, I'll be on a purchasing hiatus. Planning to write up a large comparison list of the earbuds I own in my profile, then sell the ones that aren't up to par. I've already been selling a bunch of other things recently (both audio and non-audio related).


 
 That's a fantastic comment. I wish more people would make a profile and write more about which headphones they have and like. I have seen too many empty profiles. That doesn't help people.


----------



## flamesofarctica

jasru said:


> Guess who received K's 500 and plans to do 64-300-500 comparison?




Yes, do! Do you already have the 300, what are your thoughts if so?


----------



## TheXsjado

Thank you for your answers, would you know of something cheaper? ^^ Zen Monk for instance ?


----------



## Fabi

ctaxxxx said:


> Aren't the Diomnes sold out? I've got the pennies, just missed the sale.


 
 Actually you just need to send a pair of original Monk to them @herzhz, if you have a pair. They have no stock of Monk to make Diomnes.


----------



## Nachash

The SHE3010 is really odd, the sound signature is something that I've never heard before
  
  

 They're both more comfortable with the foams on


----------



## Roen

Where can I find a MX985 for a reasonable price?


----------



## tinkertailor

i have them, they are good, they are the FAREAL 32 ohms (i have the black) i think. my impressions so far comparable to ty 32, qian 25, &  k 64 but more neutral. I haven't made up my mind about them.


----------



## Robert Turnbull

knudsen said:


> I agree totally on your impressions (of those I own, 1 and 3). I feel pretty sure you'll love the SHE3800, its really really great, and have what you miss. Get this and save the 97 bucks for now





Bought  I also got tempted by the UiiSii U2.. am a sucker for the nice looking ones! And a plextone x33m.. $13 in total..


----------



## Nachash

I was wrong, there is apparently a real SHE3010

  
 for like 5€, I bought one. I just want to know if the one from ali is real or not


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

robert turnbull said:


> Bought  I also got tempted by the UiiSii U2.. am a sucker for the nice looking ones! And a plextone x33m.. $13 in total..


 
 I try to buy the prettier headphones too.


----------



## Blackground

Can anyone share their experiences with either k 500's or ty 650? Particularly in the sound stage, bass and detail retrieval departmenus. I currently have the zen 2.0 unbalanced as a frame of reference.


----------



## Fabi

blackground said:


> Can anyone share their experiences with either k 500's or ty 650? Particularly in the sound stage, bass and detail retrieval departmenus. I currently have the zen 2.0 unbalanced as a frame of reference.


 
  
 What You Search Is What You Get
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/ty-hi-z-650/reviews/17757


----------



## Joy Boy

saoshyant said:


> Yep, it's the candy bud.  I was asked about the sound sig I prefer and pointed out my preference for a decent bass, so it really does feel like a custom job.  I'll try to post a real impression soon, but I'm very impressed out of the box so far.  I do admittedly have a bad habit of loving new toys, but will certainly admit if something's not to my liking.  The sound is very enveloping & immersive, so given my bad sense for sound stage, that could give you all a bit of an answer on that.



Ah, i see. You wanna get past that "new toy syndrome", right? Me too. That's why now i never give someone my impression on first/second days after i got the thinh. I'll wait at least a week before decided that i really love or hate it. But still i'll wait your opinion about it 




chinmie said:


> hmmm.... thicker in what frequency? if it's in the mid lows.. i think i won't like it because mine is already a little bit "too full" sometimes on some songs.



Low and mid. But maybe it's because i compared it directly with their monster, the dipios. That bud is the real beast


----------



## Townyj

Whats the going rate for a pair of original monks?  i have never owned a pair.


----------



## slim311

I haven't checked in on this thread in awhile, but my Taobao order finally came in, so here I am (sadly, Qian69 never shipped, I even waited 3 weeks after the rest of my order had arrived at the forwarding warehouse, but no such luck. I'm disappointed, was really looking forward to those; if anybody has a pair they wanted to sell...)

I had good success with Taobao's official forwarding service (Taobao Cargo): 1 week from China to my door in NC, USA via DHL; not bad for $15 (I actually paid more, but that was because I let my stuff sit in the warehouse beyond the free holding period waiting on the Q69, so I accrued additional charges), also there are cheaper options via USPS or UPS; plus no service fees as with MisterTao or the like.



Anyway, here's the goods:





DIY MX500/Philips SHE2670BG cable: (I bought these solely for the late '80s/early '90s aesthetic they had going on; I should use them to listen to Jesus Jones or EMF)





DIY MX500/7N silver-plated cable 'Hifi Version': (I couldn't resist the braided cable and "carbon fiber" plug for $12, not to mention I didn't see too many DIY buds with Sennheiser-branded shells)





PureSounds PS100-64 (silver cable):





HY 耳机 HY-1S:




EDIT: the HY-1S also included this snap-closure pouch:





I will give some more in-depth thoughts once I've had some time with each of them, but here's some 1-word OOTB impressions:

MX500/Philips: decent
MX500 'Hifi': solid
PS100-64: nice
HY-1S: meh


----------



## vapman

townyj said:


> Whats the going rate for a pair of original monks?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It's the used market and was a murky one even when the Monk+ was newly introduced. I have seen them sold between 20 and 30 usually. Never seen an unused one go for sale.


----------



## slim311

townyj said:


> Whats the going rate for a pair of original monks?  i have never owned a pair.




I don't know specifically, as I got lucky and got mine with some Monk+ in a package deal, but I wouldn't imagine more than $20 or so? Unless somebody is really attached to them or is just price gouging based on lack of supply.


----------



## slim311

slim311 said:


> I should use them to listen to Jesus Jones or EMF




so I did...


EMF - "Unbelievable": sounds good; decent bass extension, not harsh on the treble, although maybe a bit too forward on the vocals for this song

Jesus Jones - "Right Here Right Now": average; not quite enough air, sounds a bit closed in

Lightning Seeds - "Pure": now we're talking... this song seems to be mixed a bit hot, so it plays well with the slightly subdued (at least on the high end) sound of these buds


These are all just quick takes based on less than an hour with these buds (the 'Hifi' version are on the burn-in station now), so take this all with a grain of 1990s salt 

also, keep in mind I like a v-shaped sig, so what sounds "subdued" to me might sound "emphasized" to you...


----------



## Blackground

fabi said:


> What You Search Is What You Get
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/ty-hi-z-650/reviews/17757


Thanks, Fabi. I saw that, however I was curious if there was anyone else who could add/confirm or elaborate on that review. One comment I saw that stood out to me was; the 650 sounds similar to the hd650. If that is the case I'm interested to know in what ways and if anyone else feels the same way?


----------



## Townyj

vapman said:


> It's the used market and was a murky one even when the Monk+ was newly introduced. I have seen them sold between 20 and 30 usually. Never seen an unused one go for sale.







slim311 said:


> I don't know specifically, as I got lucky and got mine with some Monk+ in a package deal, but I wouldn't imagine more than $20 or so? Unless somebody is really attached to them or is just price gouging based on lack of supply.




Either of you have a pair of used ones i can purchase?

Id prefer not to pay some crazy price if possible.


----------



## yacobx

townyj said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > It's the used market and was a murky one even when the Monk+ was newly introduced. I have seen them sold between 20 and 30 usually. Never seen an unused one go for sale.
> ...




I've got unused ones. I will let one go for 1,000,000.

I'm sorry bad joke


----------



## teston

golov17 said:


> well, Yinman500 sounds a little brighter, clearer and faster against PS500 Classic, which have a bias in the LF, warmer sound and more bloated bass and roll off trebles, IMHO



Thank you very much! I'll skip the incoming sale off of Puresounds and go for Yinman 500 instead 
They're in same price range after all and I like It clearer.


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> well, Yinman500 sounds a little brighter, clearer and faster against PS500 Classic, which have a bias in the LF, warmer sound and more bloated bass and roll off trebles, IMHO


 
  
 Interest. That kind of different from my own observation of the two. I do agree Yinman 500 has a better treble extension than PS100-500, but otherwise I find Yinman 500 to be the warmer sounding of the two. The mid range of Yinman 500 is thick enough that I'll refer it to be veil sounding. PS100-500, in contrast, is cleaner sounding.


----------



## vapman

clieos said:


> Interest. That kind of different from my own observation of the two. I do agree Yinman 500 has a better treble extension than PS100-500, but otherwise I find Yinman 500 to be the warmer sounding of the two. The mid range of Yinman 500 is thick enough that I'll refer it to be veil sounding. PS100-500, in contrast, is cleaner sounding.


 
 Off which source sir? I found my puresounds to be a little picky about source.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> Interest. That kind of different from my own observation of the two. I do agree Yinman 500 has a better treble extension than PS100-500, but otherwise I find Yinman 500 to be the warmer sounding of the two. The mid range of Yinman 500 is thick enough that I'll refer it to be veil sounding. PS100-500, in contrast, is cleaner sounding.


my PS500 classic version, maybe..?


----------



## ClieOS

vapman said:


> Off which source sir? I found my puresounds to be a little picky about source.


 
  
 X5III and X7+AM3
  


golov17 said:


> my PS500 classic version, maybe..?


 
  
 Same as mine actually.


----------



## Fabi

blackground said:


> Thanks, Fabi. I saw that, however I was curious if there was anyone else who could add/confirm or elaborate on that review. One comment I saw that stood out to me was; the 650 sounds similar to the hd650. If that is the case I'm interested to know in what ways and if anyone else feels the same way?


Check one of my posts in December, I'm a bit lazy bro.


----------



## vapman

AliExpress seller *Hot-Fi* messaged me today asking why I was mad at Puresounds. After explaining I had no idea what the heck they were talking about, they referred to my review of the PS100-600. Then they asked me to post a message saying AliExpress store HCK told me to make a bad review (does this make ANY sense?). Considering I didn't get my Puresounds from them, this is extremely bizarre 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  
 They then offered me free items to write reviews on Head-Fi saying HCK was telling buyers to leave bad reviews on Hot-Fi's items.... WHAT?! I said NO of course. Anyone who knows me knows I am not bought off like this.
  
  
  
 After this rather.... strange... interaction i went to check Hot-Fi store to see what they had in terms of earbuds. The only sell one DIY bud (300 ohms) and the Puresounds range. As Puresounds has been gaining popularity I wanted to recommend anyone who considers buying one... maybe avoid Hot-Fi.
  
 This whole bizarre and unprompted  puts me off doing business with Hot-Fi and leaves a weird but uncomfortable feeling about Puresounds. 
  
  
 (For those who have not seen my Puresounds PS100-600 review, I gave it 3.5 stars, specifically saying in the review I would probably rate it a whole star higher if the price was under $100. I made it very clear I could not give it above a 4 star rating at the $140 price.)
  
  
  
 (Quick update: I have contacted Aliexpress customer support about this. I gave them permission to read my conversation log with Hot-Fi and they agree it is problematic. If anyone wants proof of my conversation with Hot-Fi or Aliexpress please ask, i am happy to share.)


----------



## Nachash

Or maybe avoid Puresounds altogether if that's how they deal with "bad" reviews


----------



## Fabi

Anyone ready for K's 900? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 https://world.taobao.com/item/545084094542.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a312a.7700824.w4004-3834745469.9.cTOzxt


----------



## golov17




----------



## Saoshyant

fabi said:


> Anyone ready for K's 900?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Roughly $1500?  I'd also need to get a better setup to even drive that monster...  At that cost, I'd really hope it can give less expensive cans like the Focal Elear a thorough bashing.


----------



## Tonx

fabi said:


> Anyone ready for K's 900?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Huh?
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/17565#post_13259099


----------



## Fabi

tonx said:


> Huh?
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/17565#post_13259099


 





 lol...


----------



## Saoshyant

I knew that pic looked familiar, but I forgot about that.


----------



## Saoshyant

Candy Buds!


----------



## chaiyuta

In fact, I really interested in Puresounds 500 Pop balanced because Bloody Peguin gave a good review on it, but recent comments here make me reconsider.
  
 P.S. I've just noticed that **** Earphones Store ,an aliexpress reseller, wiped off Puresounds' earbuds from his website without any clue.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

chaiyuta said:


> In fact, I really interested in Puresounds 500 Pop balanced because Bloody Peguin gave a good review on it, but recent comments here make me reconsider.
> 
> P.S. I've just noticed that **** Earphones Store ,an aliexpress reseller, wiped off Puresounds' earbuds from his website without any clue.


 
  
 The PureSounds 500 Pop is my favorite of the three I reviewed. 

 As for all the drama with them, I have no idea what is going on.
  
 --


----------



## Ira Delphic

chaiyuta said:


> In fact, I really interested in Puresounds 500 Pop balanced because Bloody Peguin gave a good review on it, but recent comments here make me reconsider.
> 
> P.S. I've just noticed that xxxxxxx Earphones Store ,an aliexpress reseller, wiped off Puresounds' earbuds from his website without any clue.


 
  
 Heads up..."xxxxxxx Earphones" is a banned seller. You may want to edit your post.


----------



## Saoshyant

Ira Delphic Might want to edit the quote too.


----------



## Ira Delphic

saoshyant said:


> @Ira Delphic Might want to edit the quote too.


 
  
 LOL I hit submit too soon. I intended to edit that out too! Thanks.


----------



## Raketen

saoshyant said:


> Candy Buds!




Yuin shells, nice! Where are these from? tried searching Uaire but no luck


----------



## Saoshyant

raketen said:


> Yuin shells, nice! Where are these from? tried searching Uaire but no luck




Bought from the crafter via Facebook in the Earbuds Anonymous group.


----------



## uairekko

raketen said:


> Yuin shells, nice! Where are these from? tried searching Uaire but no luck




try to search in instagram 'uairekko'


----------



## Nachash

Apparently the courier wasn't able to deliver my original SHE3010, so I need another day to compare the chinese ones to the real deal. I'm starting to enjoy them a lot


----------



## petan970

vapman said:


> AliExpress seller *Hot-Fi* messaged me today asking why I was mad at Puresounds. After explaining I had no idea what the heck they were talking about, they referred to my review of the PS100-600. Then they asked me to post a message saying AliExpress store HCK told me to make a bad review (does this make ANY sense?). Considering I didn't get my Puresounds from them, this is extremely bizarre :blink:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I can confirm that HotFi is very problematic seller. I would never buy from him again. Aliexpress even closed his shop for some time.


----------



## Townyj

These Ali Express sellers are cut throat. Way to much drama.


----------



## vapman

townyj said:


> These Ali Express sellers are cut throat. Way to much drama.


 
 Yeah bro it just isn't worth it. The Cygnus can beat the PS100-600 in so many ways anyway why not just stick with the time tested and proved Cygnus?
  
  I know some people have been selling their Cygnus lately but you'd
  
 Meanwhile I am still trying to get the Sunrise As-Feeling II open, and about to attempt another PT15 mod, so let's hope I don't destroy a driver again this time. =)


----------



## notamethlab

uairekko said:


> try to search in instagram 'uairekko'


 Pm'd you


----------



## ClieOS

nachash said:


> Or maybe avoid Puresounds altogether if that's how they deal with "bad" reviews


 
  
 Let not pins what some Ali sellers have done to PureSounds altogether. I got my PureSounds with my own money (PS100-600 only costed about USD$100 after Taobao discount) and they do make good earbuds. Not the best of the best perhaps, but still well above average. If every headphone brand must be judged by its worst seller ever, then there won't be any headphone left for us to buy.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> Let not pins what some Ali sellers have done to PureSounds altogether. I got my PureSounds with my own money (PS100-600 only costed about USD$100 after Taobao discount) and they do make good earbuds. Not the best of the best perhaps, but still well above average. If every headphone brand must be judged by its worst seller ever, then there won't be any headphone left for us to buy.


+1000


----------



## purplesun

clieos said:


> Let not pins what some Ali sellers have done to PureSounds altogether. I got my PureSounds with my own money (PS100-600 only costed about USD$100 after Taobao discount) and they do make good earbuds. Not the best of the best perhaps, but still well above average. If every headphone brand must be judged by its worst seller ever, then there won't be any headphone left for us to buy.


 
  
 Hope PureSounds can come & provide some clarity to this matter.


----------



## vapman

Honestly I would be very surprised if puresounds had a hand in any of this. I apologize if my post seemed to tie Puresounds and certain Ali sellers too closely, I am fully in line with @ClieOS stance on this matter.
  
@PureSounds-cn I hope there is no misunderstanding. I am not angry with Puresounds.... I am disappointed at Hot-Fi, and only Hot-Fi.


----------



## ClieOS

Many headphone / audio seller on AE are reseller that have no official tie to any of the brand they are selling. They stock up on popular models, then mark them up for resale on international market. They are really more like grey market exporter then your average online audio shop.


----------



## vapman

@Saoshyant Can i bug you for more impressions on the candy buds? =)
  
@uairekko Your work is very aesthetically pleasing. Hope to hear it some day. Are all models similar in sound signature/driver?


----------



## uairekko

it is different bro @vapman we have 16,32 and 150 ohm.


----------



## vapman

uairekko said:


> it is different bro @vapman we have 16,32 and 150 ohm.


 
 Very cool!
  
 Hope to hear your work some day


----------



## Saoshyant

uairekko Hey, glad to see you here!

vapmanI'll post some impressions after I listen to it this morning. Should be around 50 hours burned.


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> @uairekko Hey, glad to see you here!
> 
> @vapmanI'll post some impressions after I listen to it this morning. Should be around 50 hours burned.


 
 Cool thanks! Last q though do you know which ohmage your two are?


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman said:


> Cool thanks! Last q though do you know which ohmage your two are?




I believe it's 32, as it's rather easy to drive.


----------



## uairekko

saoshyant said:


> I believe it's 32, as it's rather easy to drive.


 thanks bro,yours only 16ohm..


----------



## Saoshyant

uairekko said:


> thanks bro,yours only 16ohm..




Ah, then yeah, no wonder it's easy to drive


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Has this been posted yet?  Interesting Color Schemes and only $7USD:

 www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-selling-3-5mm-In-ear-Earphones-Flat-Head-Plug-DIY-Earphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds-DJ/32791984472.html
  
 ==


----------



## vapman

bloodypenguin said:


> Has this been posted yet?  Interesting Color Schemes and only $7USD:
> 
> www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-selling-3-5mm-In-ear-Earphones-Flat-Head-Plug-DIY-Earphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds-DJ/32791984472.html
> 
> ==


 
 Haven't seen it yet, but did you order a set? I didn't notice it there or I would have bought it as I literally bought & had shipped a MMCX cable for some IEMs of mine from CKLewis not even 24 hours ago. CKLewis is good people. Bought several times from them.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> Haven't seen it yet, but did you order a set? I didn't notice it there or I would have bought it as I literally bought & had shipped a MMCX cable for some IEMs of mine from CKLewis not even 24 hours ago. CKLewis is good people. Bought several times from them.


 
  
 I did not order a set yet.  Though I have ordered several times from CKLewis as well.  I have never spoken a single word to anyone there.

 I just order and wait.

 --


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

bloodypenguin said:


> Has this been posted yet?  Interesting Color Schemes and only $7USD:
> 
> www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-selling-3-5mm-In-ear-Earphones-Flat-Head-Plug-DIY-Earphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds-DJ/32791984472.html


 
 I've posted it before... Someone bought a pair of those headphones off Taobao. I hope they post a review sometime.


----------



## Saoshyant

@vapman At roughly 50 hours roughly I can start assuming I'm close to where the bud's balancing will end up from burn in.  The candy bud continues to have a very respectable bass that's roughly equivalent to E808+, but I think with better quality.  On some songs I swear I feel the vibration in my ears.  I haven't heard anything indicating it's particularly treble heavy, so hopefully no discomfort for those with that issue.  Vocals seem to be the strongest suit of this earbud, as they are quite forward and present, making the voice known among the bass.  It's possible the vocals are on par with Cygnus/Crow, but it's too early to say.  Overall, I'd say the best description I can offer is marrying the bass of something like the E808+ with the Cygnus's strengths.
  
 The overall presentation is immersive, placing you right in the music.  Instrument location isn't difficult whatsoever to identify in orchestral music, but at times choir + orchestra can leave the instruments somewhat overpowered by the singing.  The previously mentioned bass will help bring an appropriate weight to instruments that need it in order to sound full or proper.  As I have a horrible horrible time judging sound stage, I cannot say how good it is, but given the feeling of being immersed in music, I can venture a guess that it's a somewhat closed stage.  It's certainly not like the staging of the Mojito for example where you feel distanced from the singer & instruments.  I'd have to say for a lot of my music there is no issue with this as it just makes me feel closer.  Detailing so far feels above average, and fairly decent considering this earbud feels more aimed at fun-based listening instead of analytical.
  
 Interestingly, I haven't found a track yet that I feel it's ill suited for so far.  While it may not play Rachmaninoff's 2nd piano concerto to the level of the Mojito or CampFred, not much in the earbud world could.  It still managed to pull this off admirably.  It handles guitar quite well, my test track for this being Foo Fighters' Stranger Things Have Happened.  There's an almost visceral quality to the plucking of the strings at times.  The orchestral and vocal mentions from before were based on Nobuo Uematsu's Memoro de la Stono.  My go to bass test track is Portishead's It's a Fire, a trip hop song that I'm quite familiar with, having listened to it for 22 or so years now.  It also helps me to see how well vocals can keep ahead of bass as there are times she's quite drowned out.
  
 I wish I had a mind to allow me to properly articulate what I hear, and an ear discerning enough to help better paint a picture for you all.


----------



## vapman

Thanks for that. You aren't half as bad as articulating what you hear as you seem to think!
  
 I finally found my last working E100, so I think I will recable it and toss a 6.5mm plug on to use without adapters on my studio gear. It was always very good for that, because of its very low sensitivity.
  
 My SHE3800 mod is very far in the works, need to order some extras but I see you all nearly doubled the price!!!!


----------



## slim311

bloodypenguin said:


> Has this been posted yet?  Interesting Color Schemes and only $7USD:
> 
> www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-selling-3-5mm-In-ear-Earphones-Flat-Head-Plug-DIY-Earphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds-DJ/32791984472.html






laughmoredaily said:


> I've posted it before... Someone bought a pair of those headphones off Taobao. I hope they post a review sometime.




I just got some of those in this week, the white/blue and the blue/blue. I'll give some impressions in a day or two after I've put them through their paces. OOTB though, so far so good,


----------



## Nachash

Got the original Philips, they're similar but not the same. I prefer the chinese ones, cleaner sound


----------



## dsf3g

Just got the Phillips SHE 3800. They were so absurdly cheap (at $3.21) I felt silly ordering just one, so I bought two:
  
 https://www.fasttech.com/product/1460600-philips-she3800-3-5mm-earphone
  
 Let me just say that I'm blown away! I can't imagine there's a better price/performance ratio earbud out there.I bought these to replace the latest set of Yuin PK3's that I lost. I like to keep a set of headphones in my pants pocket at all times, but unfortunately that does result in phones getting lost or going through the wash every 6 months of so. That's a lot easier to stomach when you're talking about a $3 earbud than a $35.00 earbud!
  
 This is how I'd describe the sound:
  
*Bass:* Plenty of bass. For a non-IEM earbud I just don't think you can complain about the quantity that these deliver, and to my ears it's pretty tight bass, too. Doesn't come across as muddy or bloated.
  
*Treble:* Not so much. I like a warmer sound, so I do wear my earbuds with foamies, and that's how I'm reviewing these. The SHE 3800 definitely demand equalization. On my Galaxy Note 4 with PowerAmp I've got the bass up by a little and the mid and above ranges maxed. These would probably benefit from donut foams.
  
 I'm not an audiophile, and I don't have the lingo down, so I can't really describe these any better than that. Bass and treble is about the limit of my audio vocabulary. I'm just a guy who once bought a pair of Sennheiser PX100's and had his eyes opened to just how much he was missing by listening to the headphones that were bundled with his music players. I've been scouring the low-end of decent hi-fi ever since.
  
 I've got several more sub $20.00 earbuds on order inspired by what I've read in this thread. The next couple of pairs may well end up sounding qualitatively better, but there's just no way they're going to touch these as far as bang for the buck is concerned. I'm honestly thinking about ordering 10 of these guys and just tossing them in the back of my bedside table drawer for whenever I need a decent sounding set of earbuds. At $32.10 it would still be cheaper than a single pair of PK3's.


----------



## gobin

You make me more eager to hear my Philips. How long did the shipping take for you? I can't find a way to track my order on fasttech. It's been 14 days and I still don't know where it's now.


----------



## voxdub

gobin said:


> You make me more eager to hear my Philips. How long did the shipping take for you? I can't find a way to track my order on fasttech. It's been 14 days and I still don't know where it's now.



Depending on shipping method you can't track, I've found to UK it'll take anywhere from 10 days to a month from Fasttech irrespective of shipping method used.


----------



## dsf3g

gobin said:


> You make me more eager to hear my Philips. How long did the shipping take for you? I can't find a way to track my order on fasttech. It's been 14 days and I still don't know where it's now.


 
  
 Looks like I ordered it Feb 22. So mine took about a week to get here. I guess your mileage may vary.


----------



## yacobx

uairekko said:


> it is different bro @vapman we have 16,32 and 150 ohm.




Website ?


----------



## DBaldock9

yacobx said:


> Website ?


 
 I believe that he's currently just on Facebook and Instagram.


----------



## gobin

voxdub said:


> Depending on shipping method you can't track, I've found to UK it'll take anywhere from
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm in the US and opted for their free shipping. I did recall their estimate shipping time is something up to 30days. Wrost case scenario is that it would arrive when I completely forgot about it, should be a pleasant surprise. lol


----------



## notamethlab

gobin said:


> I'm in the US and opted for their free shipping. I did recall their estimate shipping time is something up to 30days. Wrost case scenario is that it would arrive when I completely forgot about it, should be a pleasant surprise. lol



You guys reminded me about my order, I placed it on Feb 14 and opted for epacket. I just tracked it and apparently it was out for delivery two days ago and got sent back to the post office and is currently available for pickup, no notice. I really hate USPS


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

are there Any Bluetooth Earbuds option out there?


----------



## Anthony Frandi

Anybody have tried this?
Newest FAAEAL 64ohm 3.5mm In Ear HiFi Earbuds In Ear Earphone Alloy Tune Earbuds DIY Earphone DJ Sweet Earburd
 http://s.aliexpress.com/A3yEvE3i 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## cocolinho

anthony frandi said:


> Anybody have tried this?
> Newest FAAEAL 64ohm 3.5mm In Ear HiFi Earbuds In Ear Earphone Alloy Tune Earbuds DIY Earphone DJ Sweet Earburd
> http://s.aliexpress.com/A3yEvE3i
> (from AliExpress Android)


 
 Yes and I think these are one of the best budget earbuds I bought recently


----------



## JASru

midnightempest said:


> are there Any Bluetooth Earbuds option out there?


 
 MMCX earbud + bluetooth cable is always an option =)


----------



## Anthony Frandi

cocolinho said:


> Yes and I think these are one of the best budget earbuds I bought recently



how is it compare to edifier h180 or ve monk?


----------



## rkw

midnightempest said:


> are there Any Bluetooth Earbuds option out there?


 
  
 Truly wireless earbuds (not needing an external receiver) have been introduced in the past year:
 https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/02/battle-of-the-buds-how-apple-airpods-stack-up-against-other-wireless-earbuds/
  
 Paul McGowan (head of audiophile company PS Audio) likes the AirPods:
 http://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/sad-story-happy-ending/


----------



## cocolinho

anthony frandi said:


> how is it compare to edifier h180 or ve monk?


 
 I did not listen to my Monk for a long time now so difficult to say and don't know H180


----------



## vapman

anthony frandi said:


> how is it compare to edifier h180 or ve monk?


 
 they are very different, but, h180 has way more in common with original monk than monk+


----------



## AkashS04

Someone suggested me to buy Heigi Earbud Cushions. Are they of good quality that will not tear easily or they enhance the sound quality overall?


----------



## tinkertailor

akashs04 said:


> Someone suggested me to buy Heigi Earbud Cushions. Are they of good quality that will not tear easily or they enhance the sound quality overall?


 
 People keep suggesting them because they are bad quality and make it sound worse actually. Some people just think wasting money is fun. Have fun!


----------



## voxdub

anthony frandi said:


> how is it compare to edifier h180 or ve monk?




Monk+ is more mid-centric and h180 is more V shaped to me from owning and using on weekly basis. I prefer the H180's sound ever so slightly in general for range of music I listen to but when the Monk works with a particular album it's incredible.


----------



## DBaldock9

tinkertailor said:


> akashs04 said:
> 
> 
> > Someone suggested me to buy Heigi Earbud Cushions. Are they of good quality that will not tear easily or they enhance the sound quality overall?
> ...




If you need a thicker foam, for a better fit & better Bass, the Heigi foams work well. Another option would be to use several layers of thin foams. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## vapman

My Blox B320 is out of customs!


----------



## teston

Really, the **** pt15 should be paired with warm and smooth source.
My it sounds very good out of my combo Xduoo X3 + jdslabs Cmoy v2.03r with NE5532 installed. And of course, use thick full foam.


----------



## slim311

anthony frandi said:


> Anybody have tried this?
> Newest FAAEAL 64ohm 3.5mm In Ear HiFi Earbuds In Ear Earphone Alloy Tune Earbuds DIY Earphone DJ Sweet Earburd
> http://s.aliexpress.com/A3yEvE3i
> (from AliExpress Android)






cocolinho said:


> Yes and I think these are one of the best budget earbuds I bought recently






anthony frandi said:


> how is it compare to edifier h180 or ve monk?




I respectfully disagree with cocolinho here, as I find them the least enjoyable of my buds (I actually prefer the Fareal 32ohm to these). They're not bad by any means, and they are maybe a touch more neutral than Monk+, but I find them to be pretty boring in general. Although, that could just be attributed to my preference for a v-shape signature.

That's the beauty of earbuds though, there is enough variety at different price points for everybody to find something they like.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

teston said:


> Really, the **** pt15 should be paired with warm and smooth source.
> My it sounds very good out of my combo Xduoo X3 + jdslabs Cmoy v2.03r with NE5532 installed. And of course, use thick full foam.


 
 The thick foam should keep away the slight harshness, right? I can't believe the PT15's have doubled in price on Ali.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> My Blox B320 is out of customs!


 In order to never get disappointed, don't get excited


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> In order to never get disappointed, don't get excited


 
 Wise man!


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Wise man! [COLOR=333333] [/COLOR]


 or: Don't get enchanted and you won't get disenchanted (or "No enchanting - no disenchanting")


----------



## flamesofarctica

Re the **** PT15, my method for keeping away the harshness is to not put them in my ears (luckily, they don't like being in my ears anyway, and prefer to fall out at the earliest opportunity).

It might be the music I listen to, my sources, my preferences or my ears. A lot of people seem to love them. But they give me a headache!


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> or: Don't get enchanted and you won't get disenchanted (or "No enchanting - no disenchanting")


 
  

  


flamesofarctica said:


> Re the **** PT15, my method for keeping away the harshness is to not put them in my ears (luckily, they don't like being in my ears anyway, and prefer to fall out at the earliest opportunity).
> 
> It might be the music I listen to, my sources, my preferences or my ears. A lot of people seem to love them. But they give me a headache!


 
 The only way I can handle them is LOTS of EQ, and way more treble rolloff than i usually use, and the damn thing is still so bright!


----------



## PureSounds-cn

purplesun said:


> Hope PureSounds can come & provide some clarity to this matter.



HAHA，Our IQ or EQ couldn't be so low,you know it  
Hotfi known us just for a few days and want to sell ps earbuds,
I must say what hotfi said to vapan is ridiculus


----------



## silverfishla

flamesofarctica said:


> Re the **** PT15, my method for keeping away the harshness is to not put them in my ears (luckily, they don't like being in my ears anyway, and prefer to fall out at the earliest opportunity).
> 
> It might be the music I listen to, my sources, my preferences or my ears. A lot of people seem to love them. But they give me a headache!


 
 The Senfers don't sound too bad.  First thing I did was switch to a decent cable (I use the cable that came standard with my Ibasso IT03 with some modding of the cable.  Cut off the earwire and filed down the lip of the MMCX connector)  Then I use 2 monk light foams and 2 donut foams over that.  It's like putting a round cotton ball in my ears.  Senfers are bright.  When foaming earbuds, I usually try to get the right treble by using the full foams, then I build up the bass by using the donuts or rubber ring (If I have them).  That's my method, at least.  Oh yeah, and a more robust source helps.


----------



## cocolinho

slim311 said:


> I respectfully disagree with @cocolinho here, as I find them the least enjoyable of my buds (I actually prefer the Fareal 32ohm to these). They're not bad by any means, and they are maybe a touch more neutral than Monk+, but I find them to be pretty boring in general. Although, that could just be attributed to my preference for a v-shape signature.
> 
> That's the beauty of earbuds though, there is enough variety at different price points for everybody to find something they like.


 
 no problem 
 I mainly used them for gaming. Nice bass & nice soundstage. I'm using blue/red Monk cover


----------



## flamesofarctica

silverfishla said:


> The Senfers don't sound too bad.  First thing I did was switch to a decent cable (I use the cable that came standard with my Ibasso IT03 with some modding of the cable.  Cut off the earwire and filed down the lip of the MMCX connector)  Then I use 2 monk light foams and 2 donut foams over that.  It's like putting a round cotton ball in my ears.  Senfers are bright.  When foaming earbuds, I usually try to get the right treble by using the full foams, then I build up the bass by using the donuts or rubber ring (If I have them).  That's my method, at least.  Oh yeah, and a more robust source helps.


 Thanks, I don't have a better cable, but I'll try the wall of foams approach :-D


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I got new glasses today (viewing the *TY Hi-Z HP-400se*).


  
 --


----------



## barbazz

Got my RongYuan RY4S today. First impression is very positive. Big bass à la TY 32, but more restrained highs. Great pairing with EBM music. Can stop listening to Front 242 since I've tried them


----------



## purplesun

puresounds-cn said:


> HAHA，Our IQ or EQ couldn't be so low,you know it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Agreed. It was a very amateurish behavior from the HotFi seller.
 I hope this is the last we see of this sort of problems.
 Likely not, but one can always hope.


----------



## Saoshyant

Honestly, I just listen to PT15 with normal VE foams and the silver cable I bought with it, no EQing down the treble. No discomfort from the treble or anything. My hearing must be strange.


----------



## Townyj

vapman said:


> My Blox B320 is out of customs!


 
  
 Got them Blox in your hands yet..??


----------



## dsf3g

Followup on the SHE 3800:
  
 I took a set of foams I had and cut a hole in the middle. Definitely improves the upper registers. A recommended mod.
  
 Also, tonight I tried them side by side against my Sennheiser MX580's. The Sennheisers are the phones I keep by my bedside and listen to when I want to go to sleep with music and not disturb the wife. You can't buy them anymore, so I don't risk taking them with me when I go places. I've had them for years and they've held up well and have a very nice sound.
  
 How'd the Philips compare?
  
 Well, for a fair comparison I turned off all equalization. I always equalize my headphones because there's a certain sound envelope I like, and I try to more or less capture that sound with whatever music source I listen to. Without equalization, the MX580s sound good. The track I picked was the "Thorn in my pride" off the Black Crowe's "Southern Harmony and Musical Companion" album. This is one of my go-to pieces when trying out headphones because it's got a little of everything. It's got quiet sections of solo steel guitar as well as a rambunctious, rocking, distorted electric guitar solo and bright soulful singing.  On the MX580's everything is very clear, and the guitar and the singer have presence and sound as if they're a couple of feel closer to you than the rest of the backing band.I could listen to this whole album with the MX580s without equalization and really enjoy myself.
  
 How about the SHE 3800's? Without equalization, these didn't fare so well. The best way I could describe the sound is this: basically it sounded like the whole band was playing behind a thick cotton blanket.Very muddy sound as compared to the Sennheisers.
  
 But let's not forget: we're talking about $3.00 headphones. The Sennheisers were probably in the $40.00 range when new.
  
 What redeems the SHE 3800's is the fact that with equalization you can brighten them up somewhat and bring out higher registers and correct for their deficiencies enough that you end up with an enjoyable musical experience. They really are perfect for what I want a set of always-by-my-side cheap earphones: something I can pull out of my pocket if I suddenly find myself in a situation where I've got some time on my hands and nothing much to occupy myself with. And let me add: in my experience, back to back listening tests can be a little deceptive. In the real world you rarely listen to two sound sources back to back. In many ways, what's most important in a pair of ultra-portable headphones is that they sound good in isolation. It's easy to make a decent set of headphones sound bad just by listening to them side-by-side with a pair of excellent headphones. And the opposite is true: you can make a set of mediocre headphones sound great by listening to them side by side with a set of awful dollar store earbuds. If I'd spent $50.00 on these earbuds you could be forgiven for assuming that I'm trying to justify a dubious purchase to myself. But we're talking about a set of earbuds that cost less than a gallon of premium gas... they cost less than a Big Mac...they cost almost the same as a large coffee at Starbucks. For their intended purpose, these guys are clear winners.


----------



## alstone

I had a completely different experience with the 3800's. I think they sound terrific with a bit of noticeable treble lift. I actually like the fact that they are a bit brighter than neutral. A nice alternative to the neutralish monk plus, which I think are a bit better (more accurate and better soundstage).
  
 I use the 3800's with foam donuts from the expansion pack for monk pluses.


----------



## silverfishla

The Senfers are puzzling to me. They are cheap but have like the nicest shell oot there and MMCX connections to boot. If they spent $3 or $5 more on a more decent set of drivers, 





saoshyant said:


> Honestly, I just listen to PT15 with normal VE foams and the silver cable I bought with it, no EQing down the treble. No discomfort from the treble or anything. My hearing must be strange.


 it could probably be amazing. Headscrather to me.
I guess we can all look forward to a great PT16 hopefully...


----------



## luedriver

I just got the she3010's, first impressions is that they were a bit bright, measurements support this and decided to test them 
  
 this is how they measure as is,
  
 
  
 this is how they measure with the oem cover off and with the blue full foam on, notice how the mids and treble fill in and flatten, my old she2670 are also kinda like this
  

  
 ...and this is with the blue full foams on top of the oem covers, this is more like how normal earbuds measure, with an emphasis from 2khz to 4khz, a peak at 8khz, 
  

  
 of course, this isn't anything definitive and was measured as is on a desk with a noisey pc under on an iphone 6s using its microphone, this is only to give a rough idea of how these headphones measure with foams or not,
  
 also they were all measured at the same volume the first was 82db, the 2nd was 80db and the last was 84db
  
 making the one with oem covers and full foams louder at the same volume of the three
  
 the app I used


----------



## tinkertailor

silverfishla said:


> If they spent $3 or $5 more on a more decent set of drivers,


 
 I don't know, i find the drivers amazing, just not tuned ideally. Also they are supposedly graphene, so im not sure they cheaped out on them.


----------



## vapman

Man, the ucotech has better spatial positioning and channel separation than cygnus, but the treble is too energetic for me to handle. or else i'd always use it on ps4 
  
 i wanna put mic on a cygnus but it seems so wrong to switch the cable
  
 I dunno if there's anything very cheap with a mic. I dont think I have any remax 303 left? I may have one in a box hidden away... gf stole em


----------



## Saoshyant

silverfishla said:


> The Senfers are puzzling to me. They are cheap but have like the nicest shell oot there and MMCX connections to boot. If they spent $3 or $5 more on a more decent set of drivers,
> it could probably be amazing. Headscratcher to me.
> I guess we can all look forward to a great PT16 hopefully...






tinkertailor said:


> I don't know, i find the drivers amazing, just not tuned ideally. Also they are supposedly graphene, so im not sure they cheaped out on them.




I've heard the graphene rumor as well, and I imagine they might be the go to budget bud for treble-heads. They make for fantastic earbuds for older video game listening. All in all, I think they're a must try for anyone seriously sampling the budget range. That treble will torture most however.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

saoshyant said:


> Honestly, I just listen to PT15 with normal VE foams and the silver cable I bought with it, no EQing down the treble. No discomfort from the treble or anything. My hearing must be strange.


 
 Nah, your listening is just fine. the treble on the PT15, although not as extended as the Mojito, is still very very pleasing to my ears.


----------



## fairx

audionewbi3 said:


> Nah, your listening is just fine. the treble on the PT15, although not as extended as the Mojito, is still very very pleasing to my ears.


hmm. Makes me wonder if I can handle em. Been avoiding it for quite some time because report of treble put me off.


----------



## silverfishla

audionewbi3 said:


> Nah, your listening is just fine. the treble on the PT15, although not as extended as the Mojito, is still very very pleasing to my ears.


I have the Mojitos too. I love those as well as the Masyas. PT15 are still good though. They have an energy that you can feel, but they are not very refined or lush sounding. They are good for the price and look nice.


----------



## Nachash

So, I got the K25S.. but on the box it says K25. Did they send me the wrong one?
  
  
 edit. really bad picture, I know...


----------



## barbazz

nachash said:


> So, I got the K25S.. but on the box it says K25. Did they send me the wrong one?


 
  
 Depends on what's in the box:
  
 K25:

  
 K25S:

  
 I got mine K25S in a K25 box too.


----------



## kurtextrem

They're a bit older, but has someone ever heard the Samsung Level In?


----------



## ClieOS

kurtextrem said:


> They're a bit older, but has someone ever heard the Samsung Level In?


 
  
 Sure, I own a pair - pretty good sounding but it is on the bright side. In any case, it is an IEM, not earbuds.


----------



## kurtextrem

Oh never mind then, thank you. Looked like an earbud.


----------



## luckyeights

Its been a while since i was last on here.  I am still listening to my qian39s with donuts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Has there been any new earbuds that might be worth trying in the same sound signature of the qian 39.  Mostly lookin at you vapman since i think we both have similar taste


----------



## vapman

luckyeights said:


> Its been a while since i was last on here.  I am still listening to my qian39s with donuts    Has there been any new earbuds that might be worth trying in the same sound signature of the qian 39.  Mostly lookin at you vapman since i think we both have similar taste




There are a few options that are a little more $ but require amp and eq... Dont remember what you do if either?


----------



## tinkertailor

slim311 said:
			
		

>





> (I actually prefer the Fareal 32ohm to these).


 
 Hey, I've really been liking my 32ohms lately, what are your impressions? I'm on the fence of saying I like them more than k's 64 or TY Hi z hp150, its def. up there with those for me.


----------



## ForceMajeure

I know a few are using their service here.
 it seems that Mistertao are going to close their service as soon as March 6th!


----------



## vapman

forcemajeure said:


> I know a few are using their service here.
> it seems that Mistertao are going to close their service as soon as March 6th!


 
 Wow, just saw this, luckily they claim they're not taking any orders after march 6th, they say existing orders will still ship. Which is good because i was gonna be mad if they shut down before sending my order out.


----------



## ForceMajeure

Sad day
 need to find other forwarding agents now.
 I heard about superbuy.com but it seems their shipping is expensive depending on the country your ordering from, not everybody can use the lower shipping services.


----------



## Ira Delphic

From mistertao.com
  
_Dear valued customers:_
_We regret to announce that, *due to new Chinese government policies on international trade*, MisterTao will cease to operate on March 31st._
_New orders will not be processed starting from March 6th. Already placed orders will be processed and shipped as per usual._
_Any remaining deposit in user accounts will be 100% refunded. Please get in touch with our Customer Service to have your refund issued._
_We thank you for your companionship and trust in us over all these years. Truthfully, we are incredibly sorry for any inconvenience caused._
_Don't hesitate to contact us if any question please. Our Customer Service Email box: services@mistertao.com_
       
  
  
  
 This sounds ominous!


----------



## vapman

forcemajeure said:


> Sad day
> need to find other forwarding agents now.
> I heard about superbuy.com but it seems their shipping is expensive depending on the country your ordering from, not everybody can use the lower shipping services.




Apparently taobaoring is good? No news from them yet about if they're stopping or not.


----------



## Ira Delphic

vapman said:


> forcemajeure said:
> 
> 
> > Sad day
> ...


 
  
 Apparently people like taobaoring - from their site -


----------



## luckyeights

vapman said:


> There are a few options that are a little more $ but require amp and eq... Dont remember what you do if either?


 
 I do both i have a centrance dac port i use at work and a schit stack at home.


----------



## vapman




----------



## Brian Coffey

vapman said:


>


 
 I'd like impressions on those when you have them please.


----------



## vapman

brian coffey said:


> I'd like impressions on those when you have them please.


 

  
 also you will want a source with some power, there is definite channel imbalance if your player/amp volume is very low


----------



## notamethlab

ira delphic said:


> Apparently people like taobaoring - from their site -




I'll vouch for them, they have a really good service. Fast and easy. I received my first order in about 2 1/2 weeks, just made a second order a day ago. 

Reason I chose taobaoring in the first place was because mistertao wouldn't allow to search for items related to sennheiser, sony, philips, etc.


----------



## vapman

notamethlab said:


> I'll vouch for them, they have a really good service. Fast and easy. I received my first order in about 2 1/2 weeks, just made a second order a day ago.
> 
> Reason I chose taobaoring in the first place was because mistertao wouldn't allow to search for items related to sennheiser, sony, philips, etc.


 
 Hmmm I wonder how much their claimed reason has valdity? wouldnt other taobao proxies be closing shop if there was a law outlawing that kind of export?
  
 who knows. i could see no other taobao proxy saying they will shut down


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

vapman said:


>


 
  
  
 Hows the cable? and The Sound Stage Compare to the Monk+ ?
  
 Thanks


----------



## chellity

vapman said:


>


 
 I'd definitely like your impressions as well  I have been waiting to get my first nice pair of earbuds in the ~70$ range, so I have been curious about the b320 vs de'muns or edimun.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

ira delphic said:


> From mistertao.com
> 
> _Dear valued customers:_
> _We regret to announce that, *due to new Chinese government policies on international trade*, MisterTao will cease to operate on March 31st._
> This sounds ominous!


 
 This sounds really weird and terrible... I wonder what this will do to the Chifi market around the world? Is MisterTao doing some bad things?


----------



## gobin

Hah, my Philips she3800 arrived!
  
 So it's been said thousand times already so I just confirmed this again:
  
*- Monk+*: bright, clean, airy, exceptional with vocal 
  
*- Philips SHE3800:* significantly more bassy, warm, and but somewhat congested IMO (maybe because it fits my ears better, kindf of reminding me of the feeling I have wearing my Panasonic RP-HJE120)
  
 Overall, great purchase, thanks guys so much for recommending


----------



## Townyj

gobin said:


> Hah, my Philips she3800 arrived!
> 
> So it's been said thousand times already so I just confirmed this again:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Man... im confused how people find the monk+ bright and clean. Ears are crazy things thats for sure


----------



## chinmie

townyj said:


> Man... im confused how people find the monk+ bright and clean. Ears are crazy things thats for sure




to me the monk plus is mid centric, soft treble, and thin bass (unless pushed deep in ears and hold it there). but it has good staging, and for reverb


----------



## zabunny94

townyj said:


> Man... im confused how people find the monk+ bright and clean. Ears are crazy things thats for sure




Clean? I'm not sure. But bright, yes. I also find the overall sound of monk+ to be thin in every aspect, not only bass. But that what gives monk+ kind of airy feel and feel less congested than, say h180 or she3800, i guess.


----------



## Townyj

chinmie said:


> to me the monk plus is mid centric, soft treble, and thin bass (unless pushed deep in ears and hold it there). but it has good staging, and for reverb


 
  


zabunny94 said:


> Clean? I'm not sure. But bright, yes. I also find the overall sound of monk+ to be thin in every aspect, not only bass. But that what gives monk+ kind of airy feel and feel less congested than, say h180 or she3800, i guess.


 
  
 I didnt find it clean at all really.. quite a dark sound. Mid centric, rolled off highs and a boring type of one note bass thump. Your right about pushing them in... i used to have to force them in quite a lot to sound reasonable.


----------



## gobin

zabunny94 said:


> Clean? I'm not sure. But bright, yes. I also find the overall sound of monk+ to be thin in every aspect, not only bass. But that what gives monk+ kind of airy feel and feel less congested than, say h180 or she3800, i guess.


 
 Sorry, for my peasant ears haven't heard anything "cleaner" than Monk+...
  
 Well, except for my mid-fi IEM, but obviously we can't do comparison like that.


----------



## vapman

midnightempest said:


> Hows the cable? and The Sound Stage Compare to the Monk+ ?
> 
> Thanks


 
  
  


chellity said:


> I'd definitely like your impressions as well  I have been waiting to get my first nice pair of earbuds in the ~70$ range, so I have been curious about the b320 vs de'muns or edimun.


 
  
 Short answer, if you are shopping in the $70 range, you should get B320, unless

You have a weak power source (I have enough power)
You don't like eerie vocal presentation in the ghostly spine-tingling kind of way (I am cool with it)
  
 It's sensitive enough at 108 dB / mW but you will find that with very weak sources there is kind of a channel imbalance. It can be solved by turning up the volume on very weak sources. Would not get this for a DAP with a sub 200mW @32ohms amp, at least. It EQ's very well too. Actually, it's a little too bright for me on Walnut without EQ. With EQ, it is excellent. Detail is Mojito level but the presentation is unusual so once you acclimate to it, the de'muns or edimun simply cannot compete.
  
 All you need is a powerful enough source. No amp. I have found it actually doesn't really react to amp at all. It was better directly off my phone or any of my DAP. Adding an amp just made it sound less defined, surprisingly. One of the rare buds that sounds better off my sound card's headphone out than line out into an amp.
  
 In comparison to B320, Edimun sounds too exaggerated V shaped to be able to enjoy, and Red Demun is still good but sounds very flat and restricted on frequency range in the same way the RX-1 is.
  
 I am kind of treble sensitive so i have to EQ down the high treble, but once I do, the sound is pretty killer. The detail is spooky how good it is. To get an idea of the tuning, read about STAX Lambda Pro. There's no competition to Monk+, Monk+ sounds like it belongs in its price range compared to this... 
  
 B320 cable is very nice. I may reterminate mine with a nicer 3.5mm plug, we'll see.
  
 If you have asura 2.0, B320 is the opposite of it, B320 seems to have no bass and all the missing mids/highs presence in comparison.


----------



## LH86

Hi, I'm a long time lurker and I've just joined today.

And firstly I want to say thank you to all you guys here really useful informations and reviews.

I'm ex-IEMs lover but due to this thread now I'm addicted to earbuds here are the list of some earbuds in my collection.

Rose Mojito
Rose Masya (original)
Rose Masya (new version)
MM Ting all metal
MM Tomahawk
MM TP16 
VE MP
VE Zen 2
And many other

Just got Rose Masya yesterday and already fall in love with it especially after equip with Hiegi foam.


----------



## knudsen

lh86 said:


> Hi, I'm a long time lurker and I've just joined today.


 
  
 Hey, how would you compare your earbuds to iem's generally speaking?


----------



## LH86

But I really want to warn all of those who interesting in Rose Masya.

Now it come in 2 different version old one and latest one and it have a different sound signature and quality.

URL=http://imgbox.com/BjiZa5oo]
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





[/URL] 

 

 

 

 

 



Today I just have a chance to AB testing them here are my quick impression.

New version seem a bit more refine in term of physical appearance.

In term of overall build quality new version look more solid and more refined cosmetically, newer one look more like final product while the original one look more like phototype.

When come down to sound quality you can tell the difference immediately right after you put them in your ears.

After spend many hours AB testing them I found the new version sound more bright and really focus on treble/higer mid with noticeable lack mid/low sound lack of body compare to the original. 

I found it doesn't sound like original Masya anymore it's like something between Masya / Mojito (in term of tonality not quality-wise).

Something like if the Mojito is for instruments, soundstage and clinical accuracy sound. And original Masya is for Vocal the new one is stand in the middle but not excel in any.

Final conclusion: I like older version much more than the newer one.


----------



## LH86

knudsen said:


> Hey, how would you compare your earbuds to iem's generally speaking?




When I'm not out I can say most of my earbuds give me better music experience. 

Not that they're sound better than an IEM's technically (actually high-end earbuds do not sound as accurate as high-end IEM's IMO) but I love how relax/airly feeling they give me as well as the way they sound(hard to explain).

In generally in my opinion and accord to my taste.

High-end IEM's: Deadly accurate sound and too perfect sounding make me hard to enjoy them since it's like I'm a musicians themselves make me stressed.

High-end earbuds: kinda high accurate but still not sound too perfect and give me feeling of an audience instead of musicians give me some kind of relax and enjoyable music experience.

Right now I'm only use my IEM's while I'm in noisy places only.


----------



## knudsen

Thanks man, I agree. I can miss my se846, the bass for example was so fast and in your face ("inside" your face). Like a direct wire to the eardrum. However some earbuds can something completely different with 3D and room.
  
 I've just found out about binaural recordings, right now I'm over the top about that on Campfreds. Even though I expect the sound to be realistic before a song, I can't help turning my head when I press play. It sounds soo realistic. The Campfreds might also be for you, if you like a natural, realistic sound.


----------



## LH86

Thank you very much now Campfreds is on my wish list already.


----------



## luedriver

vapman said:


> All you need is a powerful enough source. No amp. I have found it actually doesn't really react to amp at all. It was better directly off my phone or any of my DAP. Adding an amp just made it sound less defined, surprisingly. One of the rare buds that sounds better off my sound card's headphone out than line out into an amp.


 
 I use it with a smsl m3, would that be considered as a source or an amp?
 I only have a few earbuds need the volume turned up as much as these, like the hp-650's, as much as the 9 o'clock position
 I had been using them for a while now and gotten used to the sound but as you describe it, it makes me appreciate them even more since I only have my hp-650 and cygnus to compare them to


----------



## chaiyuta

lh86 said:


> Hi, I'm a long time lurker and I've just joined today.
> 
> And firstly I want to say thank you to all you guys here really useful informations and reviews.
> 
> ...


 
 Could you please make comparison between Masya and MM Ting?


----------



## yacobx

zabunny94 said:


> townyj said:
> 
> 
> > Man... im confused how people find the monk+ bright and clean. Ears are crazy things thats for sure
> ...




I disagree. You must be using a weak source.


----------



## Majin

We had a new company phone and they came with Huawei AM115 earphones which don't sound too bad. But in comparison to the top 5-6 budget earphones their bass is a bit bloated and it has less clarity than the qian25.
  
 Not sure if this is legit but the mic controls for volume down and skip song which is nice. I shall continue my journey for a good earbud with a mic 
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Am115-In-ear-Earphone-with-Microphone-Earphone-Stereo-Earbuds-with-Mic-3-5mm-for-Huawei-P8/32791160269.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_5_10000560_10000606_10000561_10000073_10000074_10000608_10000709_10000660_10000704_10000703_10000175_10000509_10000507_10000505_10000558_10136_10000068_9999_10000552_10000369_10000063_10000365_10000367_10099_10000663_10000665_10096_10000669_10000569_10000097_10000094_10000337_10000723_10000090_10000147_10000091_10000726_10000144_10000339_10000150_10000679_10084_10000678_10083_10119_10000676_10080_10000153_10082_10000673_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10000535_10114_10000534_10000089_10000086_10000710_10000083_10000349_10000690_10000135_10000716_10000080_10000693_10078_10079_10000717_10000688_10073_10000684_10000140_10070_10122_10123_10120_10126_10124_10000546_10065_10068_10000132_10000033_10000030_10000026_10000126_10000023_10000129_10000123_10000696_10060_10062_10000699_10056_10055_10054_10000632_302_10059_10000120_10000020_10000013_10000117_10103_10102_10000016_10000114_10000111_10052_10053_10107_10050_10106_10051_10000621_10000384_10000629_10000101_10000100_10000576_10000579_10000104_10000045_10000578_10000375_10000108_10000377_10000612_10000390_10000613_10033_10000042_10000592_10000594_10000039_10000587_10000036_10000389_10000187-9999_10120,searchweb201603_1,afswitch_1_afChannel,ppcSwitch_4,single_sort_0_price_asc&btsid=9a9bf6ac-33cc-4c74-b872-dd5c35644ee1&algo_expid=337180b2-556e-4e8d-b457-ede84feec1f1-0&algo_pvid=337180b2-556e-4e8d-b457-ede84feec1f1


----------



## LH86

chaiyuta said:


> Could you please make comparison between Masya and MM Ting?




Ting is something really special it had a very unique characteristic and i like it a lot.

Compare to original Masya.

Low: Masya have better extension and also have more impact as well as bass quality.


Mid: Masya really shine here vocal is rendered in highest quality it's almost like liquid gold. 

Ting in other hand sound like it had a bit recessed mid if compare to Masya back to back but don't get me wrong Ting also do good here just not standout like Masya.


Treble: Masya have a good extension and also really good in detail here. Out of box sometimes can reach the level that may sound uncomfortable to someone who doest really like treble(but better after 20 hours of burn-in IMO).

Ting doing perfect here out of the box IMO.


Overall in term of sound quality I think I can say Masya is more refined than Ting.

But I think Ting is something special when listen to it I have a feeling like I listen to something not Earbud not Headphone not IEM I don't know how to explain also.



But beware of Masya now it come in 2 deferent version which is I guess have different driver too as they sound different also.

The new version is sound like broken Ting.

I post photos and impression of new Masya vs original Masya in Facebook club: Earbuds anonymous as I'm new member here I do not have a permission to post any picture.


----------



## Saoshyant

Did anyone pick up the Koss KDE250? It's in a drop again


----------



## chaiyuta

Pardon me. What's the meaning of broken Ting? Does it mean new Masya is good or bad?


----------



## LH86

chaiyuta said:


> Pardon me. What's the meaning of broken Ting? Does it mean new Masya is good or bad?






After figuring out there is 2 version of Rose Masya. 

Today I just have a chance to AB testing them here are my quick impression.

New version seem a bit more refine both in term of physical appearance as well as SQ.

In term of overall build quality new version look more solid and more refined cosmetically, newer one look more like final product while the original one look more like phototype.

When come down to sound quality you can tell the difference immediately right after you put them in your ears.

After spend many hours AB testing them with my own DAP/DAC the new version sound more bright and really focus on treble with noticeable less mid/low I found it doesn't sound like original Masya anymore it's like something between Masya / Mojito (in term of tonality not quality-wise).

Something like if the Mojito is for instruments, soundstage and clinical accuracy sound. And original Masya is for Vocal the new one is stand in the middle but not excel in any.

Final conclusion: I like older version much more than the newer one.


----------



## LH86

Here are a pictures of latest version of Masya which is in term of SQ is worse than original one IMO.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

lh86 said:


> After figuring out there is 2 version of Rose Masya.
> 
> Something like if the Mojito is for instruments, soundstage and clinical accuracy sound. And original Masya is for Vocal the new one is stand in the middle but not excel in any.
> 
> Final conclusion: I like older version much more than the newer one.


 
 I guess they are trying hard to ruin their brand.


----------



## 1TrickPony

lh86 said:


> Hi, I'm a long time lurker and I've just joined today.
> 
> And firstly I want to say thank you to all you guys here really useful informations and reviews.
> 
> ...




could you provide further comparisons with say Zen 2.0? details in mids ( lower and upper) to compare with.

what iem could you compare it in terms of details or signature (best you could lol since there is a discrepancy here)


----------



## DBaldock9

After taking into account several factors (reading reviews & comments here on Head-Fi, and comments on @BloodyPenguin's "Earbuds Anonymous" Facebook group), I've ordered a set of K's 500-Ohm (v2) 2.5mm TRRS Earbuds.
  
 They're about $20 more than the VE Asura 2.0 (2.5TRRS) that I already have, which is a reasonable cost at the moment.
 And, they're supposed to have a good ability for resolving details in acoustic music, which I'm looking forward to hearing.
  
 I also ordered several other budget (<$10) earbuds (Qian25, Qian39, Standard VE Monk Plus), some cable, and connectors - to experiment with cable modding.
  
 Once I get my Taxes filed, and find out what the refund might be, I'll consider one of the more expensive earbud models.
  
  
 Take Care,
 David Baldock


----------



## Karl2009

I have seen some sellers selling  siy earphones with the PK1 drivers. As example:
  
https://aliexpress.com/item/DIY-PK1-earphone-OFC-wire-150-ohms-pk1-unit/32255161292.html?spm=2114.17010208.99999999.276.JFVAmK
  
 Is the results of this ones similar to the originals Yuin PK1? Anyone has experience with any PK1 diy model?


----------



## ProLoL

I'd like to know if spending 730 USD on CAX Golden Reference is reasonable?


----------



## mochill

Should be 400


----------



## ProLoL

mochill said:


> Should be 400


 
 Yes, it should, but would it still be worth it for 730USD, coming from a STAX owner.


----------



## Danneq

prolol said:


> I'd like to know if spending 730 USD on CAX Golden Reference is reasonable?




Only 2 pair were made. Is someone selling their pair? I paid $280 for my pair of CAX black. Would easily pay $400. $730? Not so sure. I would not pay that much for any pair of ear- or headphones. 

Apparently CAX golden reference has got better bass while CAX black has got better highs. So a Stax owner should feel more at home with CAX black...


----------



## vapman

prolol said:


> Yes, it should, but would it still be worth it for 730USD, coming from a STAX owner.


 
 If you want a STAXy sound get a Mojito or B320, obviously never having heard a CAX Golden Reference, much less a normal Cypherus!


----------



## ProLoL

Thanks. None want to sell their golden reference so apparently paying almost double the price will get you a new one. Stax is great, but sounds too "real" for my taste. I've ordered the TY Hi-z 650, hopefully would be great. I really like my MX985, I do appreciate neutral but also warm sound. As for what I understand, the golden reference easily out beats the CAX black. I do have the money to spend on the golden reference, but I don't know if to take that leap of faith.


----------



## Tomasz2D

prolol said:


> I do have the money to spend on the golden reference, but I don't know if to take that leap of faith.


 
  
 Just remember that earbuds are rather fragile in general and sometimes they don't last very long - their drivers can be blown or develop rattle. And sometimes children eat them - that's a $730 meal and not very nutritious but OK you can spend even more in a restaurant so...


----------



## Tomasz2D

saoshyant said:


> Did anyone pick up the Koss KDE250? It's in a drop again


 
 I got them and I don't like them. For me not even worth $100 - their sound is in one mess - just strange and unbalanced. Also the fit is very problematic.


----------



## ctaxxxx

tomasz2d said:


> Just remember that earbuds are rather fragile in general and sometimes they don't last very long - their drivers can be blown or develop rattle. And sometimes children eat them - that's a $730 meal and not very nutritious but OK you can spend even more in a restaurant so...


 
  
 That's a good point. I was going to argue that Audeze headphones have a history of driver failure, but they also have a great warranty, even for second-hand owners. I just got into earbuds just last year, but do earbud sellers have any long standing warranty? Especially DIY builders, like Cypherus, that sell high end buds? I would imagine it would be too costly for them, or just plain impossible since they use drivers that are very limited in supply. (Like the original Monk drivers for Diomnes)


----------



## vapman

I'd hope things like the cable would at least be covered. It would be lame if you bought a DIY bud and the drivers still worked but something else broke and they wouldn't fix it. Like the connector plug or wire or something.


----------



## Danneq

A person who has heard both golden reference and Black told me that G.R has got better and deeper bass while Black has got better details. Bass is neutral on Black and I do prefer bass on CampFred. Other than that Black is on a different level compared to CampFred. You could get both CAX Black and Zen Black for a little over $600. $730 is just too much in my opinion.


----------



## kfarndog

lh86 said:


> Here are a pictures of latest version of Masya which is in term of SQ is worse than original one IMO.


 
 Shame.  The original Masya really has a great sound with the right source.


----------



## Tomasz2D

ctaxxxx said:


> That's a good point. I was going to argue that Audeze headphones have a history of driver failure, but they also have a great warranty, even for second-hand owners. I just got into earbuds just last year, but do earbud sellers have any long standing warranty? Especially DIY builders, like Cypherus, that sell high end buds? I would imagine it would be too costly for them, or just plain impossible since they use drivers that are very limited in supply. (Like the original Monk drivers for Diomnes)


 
 I have read on Head-Fi numeros times that $358 Zen Black is offered with lifetime guarantee and that would be very fair offer although I haven't found any official info about it on VE web pages. And what lifetime really means in the case of the Zen Black? Some companies offer lifetime guarantee but it means for the life of the product, i.e. as long as the products is offered by the company and the lifetime guarantee expires when the products is discontinued.
  
 I guess that these makers that use limited NOS or donor drivers for their more expensive earbuds (e.g. Mojito, Cygnus, CAX) will keep some drivers on stock for future guarantee service.
  
 By the way, my Ostry KC08T already developed right driver distortion and my Cygnus L/R channel imbalance - I will have to send them both back for service. Untill now I only had to send back for service my Mojitos but it was solely because of connectors problem.
  
 I think that's part of the magic with cheap earbuds - they may be treated like disposable contact lenses - you can almost just throw them away at the end of a day/week/month and just use another pair.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

dbaldock9 said:


> I also ordered several other budget (<$10) earbuds (Qian25, Qian39, Standard VE Monk Plus), some cable, and connectors - to experiment with cable modding.
> 
> Once I get my Taxes filed, and find out what the refund might be, I'll consider one of the more expensive earbud models.
> 
> ...


 
 NASA doesn't pay very well? Lol.


----------



## tuleggi

Hello,
  
 this is strangely the first time (I guess as I had to create a user) that I post here. Although I am following the thread almost from its inception!
 I am writing you to give a heads up as i am selling my second pair of Sennheiser MX980 as new on ebay  ( http://www.befr.ebay.be/itm/132115961007 ).
  
 Although if you want to conclude on PM before anyone bid on ebay I am open for it (as i can close the ebay selling before a bid), just let me know.
  
 Cheers and happy listening!
  
 PS: just for info/sharing I am using my other pair (the one not selling) with a GEEK OUT IEM 100 amp/dac with my laptop and it is fantastic...


----------



## ProLoL

danneq said:


> A person who has heard both golden reference and Black told me that G.R has got better and deeper bass while Black has got better details. Bass is neutral on Black and I do prefer bass on CampFred. Other than that Black is on a different level compared to CampFred. You could get both CAX Black and Zen Black for a little over $600. $730 is just too much in my opinion.


 
 The golden reference is tuned for your needs. I picked the opposite, details instead of better bass.


----------



## Danneq

Okay. But that sounds more like a custom made earbud, like Cypherus Silver Warrior which was only made in 1 pair on special order. GR was only made in 2 pairs and never intended for sale. The same was originally the case for CAX Black, but a few of us managed to buy a pair. I am a big Cypherus fan and I suppose I am guilty of the Cypherus hype starting here after buying QFred last October and then right away buying CampFred and CAX Black and then praising them all. But I do find it difficult to believe that a custom tuned GR would be so much better than the already truly great CAX Black. At least not to make it more than twice as expensive as CAX Black. Well, if the parts cost over $4-500 it might justify the high price but I don't think that's the case. Of course everyone is free to choose how they spend their money. Some would not spend over $100 on a pair of earbuds...


----------



## Saoshyant

I guess the main reason to buy something like that is the same reason someone would buy Senn Orpheus.  Plus, if it's tuned correctly, a custom at that level matching your preference would be amazing.


----------



## flamesofarctica

danneq said:


> Okay. But that sounds more like a custom made earbud, like Cypherus Silver Warrior which was only made in 1 pair on special order. GR was only made in 2 pairs and never intended for sale. The same was originally the case for CAX Black, but a few of us managed to buy a pair. I am a big Cypherus fan and I suppose I am guilty of the Cypherus hype starting here after buying QFred last October and then right away buying CampFred and CAX Black and then praising them all. But I do find it difficult to believe that a custom tuned GR would be so much better than the already truly great CAX Black. At least not to make it more than twice as expensive as CAX Black. Well, if the parts cost over $4-500 it might justify the high price but I don't think that's the case. Of course everyone is free to choose how they spend their money. Some would not spend over $100 on a pair of earbuds...




I've resigned myself that price wise, the Zen 2 (standard, red cable) and the TY HP650 are likely the highest end I'll ever hear, and I can live with that.


----------



## Saoshyant

flamesofarctica said:


> I've resigned myself that price wise, the Zen 2 (standard, red cable) and the TY HP650 are likely the highest end I'll ever hear, and I can live with that.


 
  
 I wouldn't look at it like that.  Zen 2 is really close to top for earbuds, keeping in mind diminishing returns.  At this level, what's best is to find the sound that suits you, as you run the risk of anything higher maybe not being as good a match given how few things are at the top.


----------



## flamesofarctica

jasru said:


> Guess who received K's 500 and plans to do 64-300-500 comparison?




Any update? Interested in how you found the 300.


----------



## JASru

flamesofarctica said:


> Any update? Interested in how you found the 300.


 In progress, sorry for waiting. So many distractions lately.


----------



## flamesofarctica

saoshyant said:


> I wouldn't look at it like that.  Zen 2 is really close to top for earbuds, keeping in mind diminishing returns.  At this level, what's best is to find the sound that suits you, as you run the risk of anything higher maybe not being as good a match given how few things are at the top.



Oh yep, and I do find the Zen 2 absolutely awesome, which is a big plus :-D It really suits my sound preferences and although it was more than I'd usually want to pay, I have zero regrets!



jasru said:


> In progress, sorry for waiting. So many distractions lately.




No worries! You're not on a clock :-D Just intrigued, as the 300 hasn't had much comment on here & I really like it, think it's amazing for the price


----------



## Danneq

flamesofarctica said:


> I've resigned myself that price wise, the Zen 2 (standard, red cable) and the TY HP650 are likely the highest end I'll ever hear, and I can live with that.




I used to be into buying vintage Sony and Aiwa earbuds so prices over $200 are not that strange to me. But in the case of vintage earbuds there is the aspect of the earbuds being collector's items that can add to the price. I've seen old Aiwa earbuds sold for over $800 on Ebay.


----------



## skylartd

karl2009 said:


> I have seen some sellers selling  siy earphones with the PK1 drivers. As example:
> 
> https://aliexpress.com/item/DIY-PK1-earphone-OFC-wire-150-ohms-pk1-unit/32255161292.html?spm=2114.17010208.99999999.276.JFVAmK
> 
> Is the results of this ones similar to the originals Yuin PK1? Anyone has experience with any PK1 diy model?


 
 I have tried one of these, bad quality @@.


----------



## vapman

Hey who here has the Koss kde250? What does it sound like?
  
  
 Of all my buds (insane amount) only 4 are in regular rotation.
  
 Bhobuds MAG7
 Recabled 1994 Sony
 Cygnus
 Blox B320
  
 And when I get it back, Asura 2.0 replacement will be the fifth. I love the Asura 2.0 more than it makes sense.
  
 Everything else I have gets used *maybe* one a week.... if that. And the B320 replaced any other mid focus bud I have.


----------



## silverfishla

Is that what the grill on the new Masya look like? I got a pair of Masya's (the carbon ones) not too long ago and they have a different grill (holes all over the grill). I can imagine that the different grills might have something to do with your two Masya's might sound different. Do they have the same drivers in them, or do you know?





lh86 said:


> Here are a pictures of latest version of Masya which is in term of SQ is worse than original one IMO.


----------



## LH86

silverfishla said:


> Is that what the grill on the new Masya look like? I got a pair of Masya's (the carbon ones) not too long ago and they have a different grill (holes all over the grill). I can imagine that the different grills might have something to do with your two Masya's might sound different. Do they have the same drivers in them, or do you know?




Yes that is what the grill on the new Masya look like.

While the original Masya both normal and carbon fiber version have a different grills (with holes all over it) and sometime come in different color also but they sound exactly the same.

I also believe that The new Masya and the original Masya have a different drivers too. As they sound too much different as well as the original one is a lot easier to drive (25% volume on the original one is as loud as ~40℅ on the new Masya).


----------



## silverfishla

lh86 said:


> Yes that is what the grill on the new Masya look like.
> 
> While the original Masya both normal and carbon fiber version have a different grills (with holes all over it) and sometime come in different color also but they sound exactly the same.
> 
> I also believe that The new Masya and the original Masya have a different drivers too. As they sound too much different as well as the original one is a lot easier to drive (25% volume on the original one is as loud as ~40℅ on the new Masya).


 

 Hmm, that's interesting to note.  Thanks for that impression.


----------



## Rizky Octayudha

vapman said:


> I dunno what the problem is either? @notamethlab  they are held shut with blu tac, not glue... (at least mine) a little heat will help you open, too much will make a mess, haha.
> 
> I have been wanting to put the edimun cable on a different driver. Great cable and as much as I respect Bengkel, Iriyan refuses to just make me a cable. So I guess I will just have to kill a Edimun


 
 OMG Please don't


----------



## ClieOS

vapman said:


> Hey who here has the Koss kde250? What does it sound like?


 
  
 If you ever get a good fit, the sound signature is somewhat mildly V-shaped with really good detail and a decent (*not large by any mean) bass impact. However the key words here are 'good fir' as it has exceptionally bad ergonomics.
  


lh86 said:


> Yes that is what the grill on the new Masya look like.
> 
> While the original Masya both normal and carbon fiber version have a different grills (with holes all over it) and sometime come in different color also but they sound exactly the same.
> 
> I also believe that The new Masya and the original Masya have a different drivers too. As they sound too much different as well as the original one is a lot easier to drive (25% volume on the original one is as loud as ~40℅ on the new Masya).


 
  
 Asked Rose Tech yesterday and they said the drivers are the same.


----------



## LH86

clieos said:


> Asked Rose Tech yesterday and they said the drivers are the same.




Thank you very much for the information ClieOS.

Although I still wonder why Rose Tech decided to changed sound signature of the new Masya that much. Personally I love how the original version sound but kinda hate the new one.


----------



## ClieOS

lh86 said:


> Thank you very much for the information ClieOS.
> 
> Although I still wonder why Rose Tech decided to changed sound signature of the new Masya that much. Personally I love how the original version sound but kinda hate the new one.


 
  
 I wonder about the same thing. Might have to pick a pair up and listen for myself.


----------



## one1speed

clieos said:


> I wonder about the same thing. Might have to pick a pair up and listen for myself.


 

 I am new to this thread, interesting to read these comments. I have some Masya on the way, as I looking to try a nicer pair of buds. Also looking to try K's 500 ohm. I have a decent set of Grados I'd like to replace for listening at the office, if I can find something satisfying.
  
 Was originally debating the Yuin PK1, but these others caught my attention. Any thoughts on the PK1 compared to these newer models?
  
 Thx in advance, crazy amount of knowledge in this thread. Cheers.


----------



## golov17

one1speed said:


> I am new to this thread, interesting to read these comments. I have some Masya on the way, as I looking to try a nicer pair of buds. Also looking to try K's 500 ohm. I have a decent set of Grados I'd like to replace for listening at the office, if I can find something satisfying.
> 
> Was originally debating the Yuin PK1, but these others caught my attention. Any thoughts on the PK1 compared to these newer models?
> 
> Thx in advance, crazy amount of knowledge in this thread. Cheers.


 if you like pk1, go to Shozy BK


----------



## golov17

discount from the manufacturer, by the way..


----------



## vapman

Haha "buck". More agreeable prices than usual certainly. But i still think asura 2 better than ps100-600


----------



## Frederick Wang

I'm under the impression that pk1 has a pretty large soundstage, but somewhere I read that shozy bk does not excel in that particular field, isn't that so?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I have added my review of the *TY Hi-Z HP-400se* to the Mega TY Hi-Z Family Thread:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/831374/introduction-to-ty-hi-z-earbud-family-mega-review
  
  
 My photos:


  

  

  
 --


----------



## luedriver

I just saw an ebay notification that a sennheiser mx980 is on sale
  
 just a fyi, the starting bid is at 100 euros and there is a buy now option at 400 euros
  
 it seems to be brand new in the box, if that's any consolation to the high bidding price
  
 edit, forgot the link


----------



## Townyj

luedriver said:


> I just saw an ebay notification that a sennheiser mx980 is on sale
> 
> just a fyi, the starting bid is at 100 euros and there is a buy now option at 400 euros
> 
> ...




$600aud buyout including shipping... damn... bit over my budget


----------



## vapman

townyj said:


> $600aud buyout including shipping... damn... bit over my budget


 
 not worth it imo, if you have red demun you have an improved mx980 as far as i am concerned. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 guys, what is the least sensitive cheap buds you know of? trying to pick out a couple to reterminate with 1/4" plugs for easy use in my recording studio. and i only have one last E100 that works...


----------



## smith

vapman said:


> Hey who here has the Koss kde250? What does it sound like?
> 
> 
> Of all my buds (insane amount) only 4 are in regular rotation.
> ...


 

 Glad to see some love for the Cygnus.... they sound wonderful with my iPhone!


----------



## luedriver

vapman said:


> guys, what is the least sensitive cheap buds you know of? trying to pick out a couple to reterminate with 1/4" plugs for easy use in my recording studio. and i only have one last E100 that works...


 
 I only know of tdk eb90 with sensitivity of 85dB ± 3dB (@1KHz) either that or generic earbuds like idigital (nope they have 100db)


----------



## justvinh

Is any one interested in a pair of Shozy BK which I got like 2 months ago and barely touched since then? inbox me for pics. Melbourne based.


----------



## PureSounds-cn

silverfishla said:


> Is that what the grill on the new Masya look like? I got a pair of Masya's (the carbon ones) not too long ago and they have a different grill (holes all over the grill). I can imagine that the different grills might have something to do with your two Masya's might sound different. Do they have the same drivers in them, or do you know?



Many guy said masya suits for vocal、pop lover，I wanna try it also


----------



## PureSounds-cn

saoshyant said:


> Honestly, I just listen to PT15 with normal VE foams and the silver cable I bought with it, no EQing down the treble. No discomfort from the treble or anything. My hearing must be strange.



I got one too，sound good at price 120+ RMB


----------



## golov17




----------



## chaiyuta

Already purchased puresounds PS100-500 balanced plug. Can't wait to try and recheck its sound with both vapman's and BloodyPenguin's review.


----------



## chaiyuta

golov17 : Is it new flagship of VE's ?


----------



## vapman

chaiyuta ps500 will be a different sound from ps600.



golov17 said:


>




Does that say Meep?


----------



## chaiyuta

vapman : I think it say "HEEP". But it will be more interesting if it named "MEME". haha.


----------



## one1speed

frederick wang said:


> I'm under the impression that pk1 has a pretty large soundstage, but somewhere I read that shozy bk does not excel in that particular field, isn't that so?


 
  
 Thanks for this. Curious how much difference, or what kind of difference there is between the two. Appreciate any thoughts.


----------



## petan970

golov17 said:


> discount from the manufacturer, by the way..




Earphones from the HotFi seller? NO WAY!


----------



## PureSounds-cn

chaiyuta said:


> Already purchased puresounds PS100-500 balanced plug. Can't wait to try and recheck its sound with both vapman
> 's and BloodyPenguin
> 's review.



Thanks for supporting ， 500 pop is much more musical , hope you like it


----------



## chaiyuta

puresounds-cn said:


> Thanks for supporting ， 500 pop is much more musical , hope you like it


 
 May I ask you about technical specs? I see among 500 pop, 500 classical and 600 have same frequency range (15-30000Hz). Do they use a same driver but just different soldering wire?


----------



## vapman

petan970 said:


> Earphones from the HotFi seller? NO WAY!




Yeah they are taking their hate mail to email now that i blocklisted them on aliexpress


----------



## ProLoL

townyj said:


> $600aud buyout including shipping... damn... bit over my budget


 
 Well, I sell my MX985 if anyone's interested.


----------



## CharlesRievone

chaiyuta said:


> vapman : I think it say "HEEP". But it will be more interesting if it named "MEME". haha.


 
 It says HEEP, for "Headphones and Earphones Enthusiasts Philippines".
 It's a local facebook group from the Philippines and the admins have proposed a collaboration with VE to launch a Monk+ Philippine Edition.
 It's still under planning stages though.


----------



## noknok23

vapman said:


> Yeah they are taking their hate mail to email now that i blocklisted them on aliexpress


 
 it's quite a love hate relationship when you see they placed a screenshot of your ps600 impression  on the description page


----------



## vapman

noknok23 said:


> it's quite a love hate relationship when you see they placed a screenshot of your ps600 impression  on the description page




That's too funny. I had no idea


----------



## tinkertailor

charlesrievone said:


> It says HEEP, for "Headphones and Earphones Enthusiasts Philippines".
> It's a local facebook group from the Philippines and the admins have proposed a collaboration with VE to launch a Monk+ Philippine Edition.
> It's still under planning stages though.


 
 I think we need a VE Head-Fi bud.


----------



## PureSounds-cn

noknok23 said:


> it's quite a love hate relationship when you see they placed a screenshot of your ps600 impression  on the description page



HOTFI' EQ seems a little low for what they did，I'm speechless right now


----------



## chaiyuta

tinkertailor said:


> I think we need a VE Head-Fi bud.


 
 I think vapman need a VE HotFi bud. Haha


----------



## AkashS04

gobin said:


> Hah, my Philips she3800 arrived!
> 
> So it's been said thousand times already so I just confirmed this again:
> 
> ...


 
 One of the guys in other forum posted that he got 3800 cpl of days back and found it with good bass but not warm at all and even lifted treble. So may be harsh I guess. But I agree with you that Monk+ is bright and with not much bass.


----------



## Ira Delphic

I misplaced my re-cabled SHE3800 for a week, found it over the weekend. I'm continued to be amazed by how nice the sound is. And not just based on the price. Maybe the re-cabling helped but likely that is just my imagination.


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Does that say Meep?


 "VE Monk + Pinoy Edition !!!!!

Headphones and Earphones Enthusiast of the Philippines (HEEP) and Venture Electronics are collaborating on this exciting project ... something no audiophile group in the world has ever done before. Wow!"


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> "VE Monk + Pinoy Edition !!!!!
> 
> Headphones and Earphones Enthusiast of the Philippines (HEEP) and Venture Electronics are collaborating on this exciting project ... something no audiophile group in the world has ever done before. Wow!"


 
 hmmm, this will be harder than the candy to get maybe!


----------



## Ira Delphic

There has never been a better time to be an earbud connoisseur! There's like $400+ of earbuds I could order right now and ... am really all set for earbuds.


----------



## CharlesRievone

vapman said:


> hmmm, this will be harder than the candy to get maybe!


 

 Haha i don't think so. I believe around 10k units will be made.
  
 I'll provide an update here once the collab materializes. And if you guys are seriously considering in getting a pair, I can hook you up with our local sellers.
 Just head over to Earbuds Anonymous for details


----------



## tinkertailor

charlesrievone said:


> Haha i don't think so. I believe around 10k units will be made.
> 
> I'll provide an update here once the collab materializes. And if you guys are seriously considering in getting a pair, I can hook you up with our local sellers.
> Just head over to Earbuds Anonymous for details


 
 Is it just a different color monk plus or is there also a different intended sound?


----------



## CharlesRievone

tinkertailor said:


> Is it just a different color monk plus or is there also a different intended sound?


 

 99% most likely just the same sound sig as the regular Monk+, just a shell color difference as per usual.


----------



## PureSounds-cn

vapman said:


> Honestly I would be very surprised if puresounds had a hand in any of this. I apologize if my post seemed to tie Puresounds and certain Ali sellers too closely, I am fully in line with @ClieOS
> stance on this matter.
> 
> @PureSounds-cn
> I hope there is no misunderstanding. I am not angry with Puresounds.... I am disappointed at Hot-Fi, and only Hot-Fi.



Hi vapan, We feel upset about what hotfi did also,
If they don't change price tomorrow we'll never offer earbus to them anymore，
BTW ，thank for your review again.
you are an icon of honest, good job !


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

golov17 said:


> "VE Monk + Pinoy Edition !!!!!
> 
> Headphones and Earphones Enthusiast of the Philippines (HEEP) and Venture Electronics are collaborating on this exciting project ... something no audiophile group in the world has ever done before. Wow!"


 
 That's amazing. I have no qualms over Lee's bad comments anymore now.


----------



## rkw

ira delphic said:


> There has never been a better time to be an earbud connoisseur! There's like $400+ of earbuds I could order right now and ... am really all set for earbuds.


 
  
 Thank goodness for the long shipping time from China. It's the only thing keeping everybody from going bankrupt.


----------



## DBaldock9

rkw said:


> Thank goodness for the long shipping time from China. It's the only thing keeping everybody from going bankrupt.


 
  
 Just takes longer to go bankrupt...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Public Service Announcement. I warn potential buyers not to purchase the TOP DIY MX500 Clear Earbuds from the Beteran HIFI Audio Store on Aliexpress.
  
 They come in 32, 64 and 300ohm versions with various color cables.
  
 I have all three. While the sound on the 32ohm version is promising for under $10USD, it is an awful build quality. The 3.5mm plug cap unglued itself the first time I unplugged it from one of my DAPs.
  
  The 64ohm version has the R (right) and L (left) reversed on the housings. The sound is veiled and uninspiring.
  
 The 300ohm version has a nice cable, but it does not look like the ones in the photos on the site. The sound is like the 64ohm version, very veiled and not clear at all.
  
 I have yet to speak to the seller about any of this yet.
  
 --


----------



## Ira Delphic

rkw said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > There has never been a better time to be an earbud connoisseur! There's like $400+ of earbuds I could order right now and ... am really all set for earbuds.
> ...


 
  
 That's what I thought. But there's BLOX B160 available and in stock new shipping from the US and a new DIY earbud company in New England of all places! I have tweaked, modded, recabled Qian39 incoming this week. And only 2 days transit time


----------



## Ira Delphic

bloodypenguin said:


> Public Service Announcement. I warn potential buyers not to purchase the TOP DIY MX500 Clear Earbuds from the Beteran HIFI Audio Store on Aliexpress.
> 
> They come in 32, 64 and 300ohm versions with various color cables.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks, bump. I never used or heard of that seller btw.


----------



## DBaldock9

ira delphic said:


> Thanks, bump. I never used or heard of that seller btw.


 

 I've had good Customer service from Beteran HiFi Audio Store - it's where I bought my first Shanling M1 last Fall, on the day they became available on AliExpress.
 After about 1-1/2 weeks, when they detected that the shipper had lost the original one, they contacted me, and shipped a replacement (free shipping).  The M1 Leather Case that was ordered with the M1, came in on time.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I am going to contact the AliExpress seller *Beteran HIFI Audio Store *tonight and see what they say.
  
  
  
 Here is a unedited photo of the 32ohm version, with the cap that came off. While this is a SUPER easy fix, it is just disappointing after only using it once.
  

  
  
  
  
 The 300ohm version looks a little like its description photo, but it is missing the cable "jewelry" and has a cheap 3.5mm plug, not nice like the one shown on the ad
 www.aliexpress.com/item/TOP-DIY-MX500-Clear-Sound-Bass-Monitor-HiFi-Headset-300-Ohm-High-Resistance-Stereo-Earphones-Earbuds/32781100015.html
  

  
  
  
  
 Here is a picture of the 64ohm version. I can not prove how the R and L are not on the correct side with a photo, but here you go anyways...
  

  
 --


----------



## DBaldock9

bloodypenguin said:


> I am going to contact the AliExpress seller *Beteran HIFI Audio Store *tonight and see what they say.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Maybe if you had swapped their orientation on the table...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

dbaldock9 said:


> Maybe if you had swapped their orientation on the table...


 
  
 Haa ha....


----------



## Tomasz2D

dbaldock9 said:


> Maybe if you had swapped their orientation on the table...


 
  
 Oh, I will do it (sigh)...


----------



## flamesofarctica

akashs04 said:


> But I agree with you that Monk+ is bright and with not much bass.




It could be my understanding of the term bright, I associate bright with elevated high mids and treble, and I don't hear that myself with the Monk+.

Monk+ isn't massively bassy but I wouldn't say it was lacking, I'd describe it as pretty well balanced and relaxed sounding.


----------



## DBaldock9

akashs04 said:


> But I agree with you that Monk+ is bright and with not much bass.


 
  
 Quote:


flamesofarctica said:


> It could be my understanding of the term bright, I associate bright with elevated high mids and treble, and I don't hear that myself with the Monk+.
> 
> Monk+ isn't massively bassy but I wouldn't say it was lacking, I'd describe it as pretty well balanced and relaxed sounding.


 
  
 I've found that the Monk Plus is my "bassiest" earbud (with no EQ applied), out of of my current collection -
  
 01.) MusicMaker TKY2 - Earbud, 16Ω, 100dB/mW, 20Hz-25KHz, Metal housing, 2x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$88.01]
 02.) VE Asura 2.0 (2.5TRRS) - Earbud, 150Ω, 120dB/mW, 8Hz-25KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$88.00]
 03.) Daik DK-Song - Earbud, 16Ω, 108dB/mW, 20Hz-24KHz, Wood housing, 1x Dynamic, MMCX cable [$46.95]
 04.) VE Monk Plus (2.5TRRS) - Earbud, 64Ω, 122dB/mW, 20Hz-20KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$30.00]
 05.) 1More Piston (EO303) - Earbud, 32Ω, 98dB/mW, 20Hz-24KHz, Metal housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$17.79]
 06.) **** PT15 - Earbud, 32Ω, 120dB/mW, 10Hz-25KHz, Metal housing, 1x Dynamic, MMCX cable [$15.00]
 07.) Mantis C7 - Earbud, 16Ω, 100dB/mW, 20Hz-20KHz, Metal housing, 1x Dynamic, tethered cable [$12.99]
  
 The next bassiest would be the Mantis C7.
 The one with the _best quality_ of Bass, is the VE Asura 2.0 (2.5TRRS).
 The **** PT15 has a good quantity & quality of Bass, with EQ applied (rooted DP-X1, Viper4Android).
  
 I've got a few more earbuds on order (K's 500 (2.5TRRS), Standard Monk Plus, Qian39, & Qian25), to see how they sound.  The Standard Monk Plus is the Android 3-Button model, to use with my Nexus 5 phone.


----------



## flamesofarctica

dbaldock9 said:


> I've found that the Monk Plus is my "bassiest" earbud (with no EQ applied), out of of my current collection -
> 
> 01.) MusicMaker TKY2 - Earbud, 16Ω, 100dB/mW, 20Hz-25KHz, Metal housing, 2x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$88.01]
> 02.) VE Asura 2.0 (2.5TRRS) - Earbud, 150Ω, 120dB/mW, 8Hz-25KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$88.00]
> ...




I don't have anything balanced as I don't have a balanced player, however...

Monk+ is what made me ditch IEMs and is still my favorite budget earbud, so you won't find a bad word about it from me, it could be tailored to my preferred sound signature, and scales really well with a bit of power behind it :-D

Asura 2 also is awesome, and the quality of bass and how it can handle just about any music puts it up near the top of my favorite earbuds. It's great for metal IMO.

The PT15 I've already expressed my problems with, I still have things to try (foam upon foam upon foam) but I'm not hopeful :-D Now that's what I consider a bright earbud!

I haven't tried the rest of those you own, the Qian buds are ok but not my favorites. Interested in how you find the K's 500 though, as I love the 300.

Are you not tempted by the Zen 2, with it coming in a balanced version? It might not suit everyone, but for vocals especially it's exceptional


----------



## DBaldock9

flamesofarctica said:


> I don't have anything balanced as I don't have a balanced player, however...
> 
> Monk+ is what made me ditch IEMs and is still my favorite budget earbud, so you won't find a bad word about it from me, it could be tailored to my preferred sound signature, and scales really well with a bit of power behind it :-D
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, to start with - according to the Audio Check high frequency sweeps [ http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php ], my hearing only goes out to ~14 - 15-KHz these days, so if the PT15 has peaks above that, I'm probably not going to hear it.
  
 On my PT15, I'm using a donut foam under a full foam (both standard thickness), mainly for fit, but I suppose some of the Treble is being attenuated as well.
  
 I bought the Qian39 & Qian25 to experiment with re-cabling (bought some wire and 2.5mm TRRS plugs, along with the latest group of earbuds).
  
 I've noticed the Zen 2 in VE's AliExpress store - and I'm curious about how it sounds, compared to some of other earbuds in the $100 - $200 range (like the TY Hi-Z 650, Shozy BK / Stardust (2.5TRRS), PureSounds PS100-600, & Seahf 650).  If the Zen 2 has the Midrange clarity of the Asura 2.0, and additional Bass impact, it would definitely interest me.  The only issue, is that earbuds the size of the Monk Plus & Asura aren't really comfortable and secure on my ears, unless I wear them over-the-ear, with silicone ear hooks on the wire.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Quick UPDATE on those TOP DIY earbuds from Beteran HIFI Audio Store on AliExpress.
  
 They must realize there is a big problem with the products as all three are currently not for sale.  And I seem to be the only schmuck who bought them...

 They offered me a $5 refund.  I politely declined.

 www.aliexpress.com/item/TOP-DIY-MX500-Clear-Sound-Bass-Monitor-HiFi-Headset-32-Ohm-High-Resistance-Stereo-Earphones-Earbuds/32781646008.html
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TOP-DIY-MX500-Clear-Sound-Monitor-Hifi-Bass-Headset-64-Ohm-Resistance-Stereo-Earphones-Earbuds-Auriculares/32783679854.html
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TOP-DIY-MX500-Clear-Sound-Bass-Monitor-HiFi-Headset-300-Ohm-High-Resistance-Stereo-Earphones-Earbuds/32781100015.html
  
 --


----------



## vapman

dbaldock9 said:


> I've noticed the Zen 2 in VE's AliExpress store - and I'm curious about how it sounds, compared to some of other earbuds in the $100 - $200 range (like the TY Hi-Z 650, Shozy BK / Stardust (2.5TRRS), PureSounds PS100-600, & Seahf 650).  If the Zen 2 has the Midrange clarity of the Asura 2.0, and additional Bass impact, it would definitely interest me.  The only issue, is that earbuds the size of the Monk Plus & Asura aren't really comfortable and secure on my ears, unless I wear them over-the-ear, with silicone ear hooks on the wire.


 
 beware zen 2 has a more detailed but also more veiled sounding mid and far less bass impact and reach compared to asura 2 though
 ps600 is not a bad choice if you want the mids of asura 2 and more bass without eq....


----------



## 1TrickPony

dbaldock9 said:


> Well, to start with - according to the Audio Check high frequency sweeps [ http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php ], my hearing only goes out to ~14 - 15-KHz these days, so if the PT15 has peaks above that, I'm probably not going to hear it.
> 
> On my PT15, I'm using a donut foam under a full foam (both standard thickness), mainly for fit, but I suppose some of the Treble is being attenuated as well.
> 
> ...




the Zen is worth it...provided you have a source with decent ooomph. I specifically love the zen2.0 for its overall balanced and immersive soundstage.

if you liked the Lz-A4, the Zen would be the next best thing (for slightly less). I feel though that the A4 has a sweet spot in the upper mids/lower treble the Zen 2.0 can't touch.


----------



## Rizky Octayudha

laughmoredaily said:


> That's amazing. I have no qualms over Lee's bad comments anymore now.


----------



## Rizky Octayudha

golov17 said:


> "VE Monk + Pinoy Edition !!!!!
> 
> Headphones and Earphones Enthusiast of the Philippines (HEEP) and Venture Electronics are collaborating on this exciting project ... something no audiophile group in the world has ever done before. Wow!"


 
 Elibuds Sabia and Earbuds Lover Indonesia ELI has done it 1st sir. Now they have many products of earbud from the collab, don't you know?


----------



## golov17

rizky octayudha said:


> Elibuds Sabia and Earbuds Lover Indonesia ELI has done it 1st sir. Now they have many products of earbud from the collab, don't you know?


 with VE logo on the housing?


----------



## chaiyuta

puresounds-cn said:


> Hi vapan, We feel upset about what hotfi did also,
> If they don't change price tomorrow we'll never offer earbus to them anymore，
> BTW ，thank for your review again.
> you are an icon of honest, good job !


 
 Today I look up his store. The price of PS100-500 was changed. (become lower)


----------



## flamesofarctica

dbaldock9 said:


> Well, to start with - according to the Audio Check high frequency sweeps [ http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php ], my hearing only goes out to ~14 - 15-KHz these days, so if the PT15 has peaks above that, I'm probably not going to hear it.
> 
> On my PT15, I'm using a donut foam under a full foam (both standard thickness), mainly for fit, but I suppose some of the Treble is being attenuated as well.
> 
> ...




Ah, if it's more bass impact you're looking for, the Zen 2 may not be for you. It sounds wonderful though, possibly a love-it-or-hate-it option as views seem to vary from disappointment to 'Wow!', I'm in the 'Wow!' camp.

Fit-wise as it's recommended to use without foams, I couldn't really recommend if you have fit issues with the VE earbuds.

Would you have similar fit issues with the TY and Seahf earbuds?



vapman said:


> beware zen 2 has a more detailed but also more veiled sounding mid and far less bass impact and reach compared to asura 2 though
> ps600 is not a bad choice if you want the mids of asura 2 and more bass without eq....




I love the sound, it's like concentrated gorgeousness :-D but I agree it probably has less bass impact than the Asura 2.

@vapman, have you tried the RY4S. I'd be interested to see how you found it, as it's pretty bassy yet I still really like it, and it's practically free :-D


----------



## golov17

It seems that Laoze uses the mx760 drivers, but because of the smaller case the earbufs sound brighter, more detailed, but also with more compression..


----------



## golov17

They have 33 ohm, but with High Gain I listen to the hiss of the amplifier ..


----------



## 1TrickPony

flamesofarctica said:


> Ah, if it's more bass impact you're looking for, the Zen 2 may not be for you. It sounds wonderful though, possibly a love-it-or-hate-it option as views seem to vary from disappointment to 'Wow!', I'm in the 'Wow!' camp.
> 
> Fit-wise as it's recommended to use without foams, I couldn't really recommend if you have fit issues with the VE earbuds.
> 
> ...




Zen 2.0 having less bass than Asura 2.0? uhhhhh bro you might wanna use them rubber fits or hooks. Asura felt more out of balance with the lower half of the spectrum.

unless there's shoddy make in the last batch :S

Asura 2 is brighter because of upper mid emphasis, but Zen 2.0 possesses pretty good resolution.

wait...unless I misread. kindly disregard my comment:s


----------



## vapman

1trickpony said:


> Zen 2.0 having less bass than Asura 2.0? uhhhhh bro you might wanna use them rubber fits or hooks. Asura felt more out of balance with the lower half of the spectrum.
> 
> unless there's shoddy make in the last batch :S
> 
> Asura 2 is brighter because of upper mid emphasis, but Zen 2.0 possesses pretty good resolution.


 
 If you are hearing more bass from Zen 2 I am gonna wonder if you Asura is in working condition. Or if you are using both of a weak DAP.
  
 I can't speak for all DAPs because low power players are so weird about sound sig consistency and I hate low power output. No EQ but a decent amp plug in Zen 2 and Asura 2. Asura should sound like a sub bass monster in comparison. With EQ the difference is even more obvious.
  
 Zen 2 is never going to have more bass, regardless of what tricks you do for fitting it. It has a very early sub bass roll off. Try it with an amp if you don't believe me, and i've had several of both Zen 2 and Asura 2 so i know all mine have been in fully functioning order.
  
@flamesofarctica  - Not heard RY4S yet. Can anyone confirm if it's a unique driver? I have so many mx500 based designs it's hard to want any more, especially when I know I have the heaviest bass earbud design 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so RY4S would have to be REALLY crazy to beat my bass champions. And i have to be curious if the listed sensitivity for RY4S of 95dB±3dB is really true. that would be very non-sensitive if so, would need an amp for sure...? does yours? Even at 4.99 I barely feel an urge to get it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have you ever amped yours?


----------



## 1TrickPony

I use a Shanling M3. it's pretty generous in power. 

I got to audition Asura and Zen last year, as part of a tour. I've decided to save up because the M3 and Zen 3 were a perfect matching compared to other gear.

I think Brooko's reviews did a nice representative job of measuring graphs and all... so yeah. Zen 2.0 is a tricky beast but can pretty much wipe a lot of good iem hybrids.


----------



## vapman

1trickpony said:


> I use a Shanling M3. it's pretty generous in power.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Oh in comparison to IEM Hybrids I don't think there's really any question Zen 2 is better than most IEM, hybrid or not, in anything except bass reach/impact....
  
 Asura 2 wakes up a lot more as you give it more juice. Zen 2 not nearly as much. Zen 2 plateaus much earlier and stops benefitting from increased power, whereas you can give the Asura 2.0 several full watts of power, compensate volume to not blow out your ears, and the bass becomes like a full sized stereo.
  
 I don't enjoy using my Asura 2 directly from a DAP or phone. I think it sounds very lifeless and the bass has no power in comparison to a well amped one. Your M3 has 250mW @ 32Ω; 16mW @ 300Ω for power specs. When you said generous in power, I was expecting to see 500+ for 32 ohms... yeah that is fine for a zen but nowhere near proper Asura 2 power. Asura 2 is 150 ohms, so it's going to get around 100 mW from the M3. ain't enough!


----------



## 1TrickPony

vapman said:


> Oh in comparison to IEM Hybrids I don't think there's really any question Zen 2 is better than most IEM, hybrid or not, in anything except bass reach/impact....
> 
> Asura 2 wakes up a lot more as you give it more juice. Zen 2 not nearly as much. Zen 2 plateaus much earlier and stops benefitting from increased power, whereas you can give the Asura 2.0 several full watts of power, compensate volume to not blow out your ears, and the bass becomes like a full sized stereo.
> 
> I don't enjoy using my Asura 2 directly from a DAP or phone. I think it sounds very lifeless and the bass has no power in comparison to a well amped one. Your M3 has 250mW @ 32Ω; 16mW @ 300Ω for power specs. When you said generous in power, I was expecting to see 500+ for 32 ohms... yeah that is fine for a zen but nowhere near proper Asura 2 power. Asura 2 is 150 ohms, so it's going to get around 100 mW from the M3. ain't enough!




don't have Asura any longer but I wouldn't question what good power can do for bass presence in general (let alone soundstage).

wait wasn't the Zen 2.0 at 320 ohms???


----------



## vapman

1trickpony said:


> don't have Asura any longer but I wouldn't question what good power can do for bass presence in general (let alone soundstage).
> 
> wait wasn't the Zen 2.0 at 320 ohms???


 
 Yup Zen 2 is 320 so your m3 would have pushed roughly 15 mW to it. The Zen 2 has a very sensitive driver relative to its high impedance, so it actually works surprisingly well on sources that are very low on wattage. I remember I was able to play Sony PSP with the Zen 2 plugged in and it both sounded great and got louder than i'd want it to. But the Baldor E100 (32 ohm but low sensitivity) sounded still very quiet at max volume on the PSP.


----------



## skylartd

Dont know about the Zen 2.0 but I can confirm what vapman said about the Asura 2.0. I use to have a normal TRS Asura 2.0 and it sound bright and a very weak bass on mobile phone or with Fiio Q1, but now when i have a balance TRRS Asura 2.0 with the Aune M1s, Asura 2.0 bass is just alot better. Maybe it still need more power to shine .


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Yup Zen 2 is 320 so your m3 would have pushed roughly 15 mW to it. The Zen 2 has a very sensitive driver relative to its high impedance, so it actually works surprisingly well on sources that are very low on wattage. I remember I was able to play Sony PSP with the Zen 2 plugged in and it both sounded great and got louder than i'd want it to. But the Baldor E100 (32 ohm but low sensitivity) sounded still very quiet at max volume on the PSP.


Zen2.0 290 Ohm


----------



## 1TrickPony

golov17 said:


> Zen2.0 290 Ohm




they changed it? :[


----------



## golov17

If you wanted big bass, go to DIY EMX50


----------



## vapman

golov17 said:


> If you wanted big bass, go to DIY EMX50


 
 How much $ ??


----------



## 1TrickPony

golov17 said:


> If you wanted big bass, go to DIY EMX50




sigh golov17, that M5 is gorgeous...I never tire of seeing it!

you might want to consider the M3 too if you enjoy the Shanling house sound so much. Bought it for 192$ new during the new year.


----------



## Brian Coffey

vapman said:


> How much $ ??


 
 Pretty sure this is it. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-New-Arrival-In-ear-Earphones-Flat-Head-Plug-DIY-Earphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds-DJ-Earbuds/32759573651.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.274.Xp2XPT


----------



## vapman

brian coffey said:


> Pretty sure this is it. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-New-Arrival-In-ear-Earphones-Flat-Head-Plug-DIY-Earphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds-DJ-Earbuds/32759573651.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.274.Xp2XPT


 
 Ahhh thanks, i should have gotten them when i placed a cklewis order last week. it just got out of customs~


----------



## Pictograms

1trickpony said:


> Zen 2.0 having less bass than Asura 2.0? uhhhhh bro you might wanna use them rubber fits or hooks. Asura felt more out of balance with the lower half of the spectrum.
> 
> unless there's shoddy make in the last batch :S
> 
> ...




I also thought the same as you... But because of the other comments I decided to go see what Ve says and it says 
" Our middle child earbud is very much a lonely kid, a misfit in this world of bass-emphasis"
Which defintly confuses me since I read that as 'not much bass'...
Is that misread do that mean it HAS bass emphasis?


----------



## 1TrickPony

pictograms said:


> I also thought the same as you... But because of the other comments I decided to go see what Ve says and it says
> " Our middle child earbud is very much a lonely kid, a misfit in this world of bass-emphasis"
> Which defintly confuses me since I read that as 'not much bass'...
> Is that misread do that mean it HAS bass emphasis?




tried it with Shanling m2, m3, Aune m2, Xuelin 770. with following amps: Shanling h3, Aune b1 (2016) (don't remember exactly). I didn't get much bass in line because of upper mids emphasis emphasis. the have some resolution no doubt. again, from what others pointed out Ymmv.


----------



## vapman

Lee hates bass boost and thinks it's stupid. I let him know how good it is at EQ and extreme amping, and the bass becomes phenomenal. But I don't think he really wanted to acknowledge his high end no-bass-focus bud actually has very killer high impact and well controlled sub bass with no mid bass exaggeration (that awful kind of  bass


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman said:


> Ahhh thanks, i should have gotten them when i placed a cklewis order last week. it just got out of customs~




It has decent bass for a budget, but I never thought it was truly impressive.


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> It has decent bass for a budget, but I never thought it was truly impressive.




Thank you man, i will skip em


----------



## mochill

Get heavenly sounds dub


----------



## DBaldock9

> Originally Posted by *vapman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


 
 (*Emphasis added*)
  
@vapman - Which earbud would that be?


----------



## CharlesRievone

dbaldock9 said:


> (*Emphasis added*)
> 
> @vapman - Which earbud would that be?


 

 Probably the Bhobuds MAG-7, which I have been so interested for the past couple of days


----------



## vapman

charlesrievone said:


> Probably the Bhobuds MAG-7, which I have been so interested for the past couple of days




What can i say? If you have an amp they can't be beaten. No competition! Moreso if you EQ in a little bass. But, that's just my opinion...! Take it with a grain of salt, or a few watts of amp power...


----------



## silverfishla

*Contoversial Topic Alert*. So my wife borrowed my Monk+ buds to listen to an e-book that was something like 15 CDs worth of audio. When I got them back, I felt that the Monks sounded a bit dull. I decided to zap them with the Cardas Clarifier app and lo and behold...vibrancy and bass aliveness restored.
Now I know a lot of people think this is a bunch of hooey, but I swear it works. I have no affiliation with Cardas or anything.


----------



## Pictograms

vapman said:


> Lee hates bass boost and thinks it's stupid. I let him know how good it is at EQ and extreme amping, and the bass becomes phenomenal. But I don't think he really wanted to acknowledge his high end no-bass-focus bud actually has very killer high impact and well controlled sub bass with no mid bass exaggeration (that awful kind of  bass



Ahh, all becomes clear! Thank you for explaining in a way I understand lol


----------



## ctaxxxx

Does anyone know of any V-Shaped earbuds that extend in the outer-most frequencies?
  
 The HS Cadenza's I own are good, but they are lifted in the mid-bass and upper-mids. It would be nice the hear something that is more towards the sub-bass and treble. Maybe neutral mids, instead of distant, if possible...
  
*EDIT:* So I guess CampFred's but with more sparkly treble? I can sacrifice mids since I have a lot of mid-focused earbuds.


----------



## Danneq

ctaxxxx said:


> Does anyone know of any V-Shaped earbuds that extend in the outer-most frequencies?
> 
> The HS Cadenza's I own are good, but they are lifted in the mid-bass and upper-mids. It would be nice the hear something that is more towards the sub-bass and treble. Maybe neutral mids, instead of distant, if possible...
> 
> *EDIT:* So I guess CampFred's but with more sparkly treble? I can sacrifice mids since I have a lot of mid-focused earbuds.


 

 Ostry KC08?

 I've only heard them briefly in the E-earphone shop in Akihabara in Tokyo, but they are described as being quite V shaped...


----------



## mochill

ctaxxxx said:


> Does anyone know of any V-Shaped earbuds that extend in the outer-most frequencies?
> 
> The HS Cadenza's I own are good, but they are lifted in the mid-bass and upper-mids. It would be nice the hear something that is more towards the sub-bass and treble. Maybe neutral mids, instead of distant, if possible...
> 
> *EDIT:* So I guess CampFred's but with more sparkly treble? I can sacrifice mids since I have a lot of mid-focused earbuds.


asura 2 black edition


----------



## ctaxxxx

mochill said:


> asura 2 black edition


 

 Wait, how much is that? I don't see it on their site, but its in the description.
  
_"Finally we are able to do TRRS  again for our standard editions , as u can see they all come with a free TRRS TO SE adapter~obviously it is the same for our *Black Edition*, will update the picture when we find the time for it ~"_
  
 Do I have to request via email?
  
*EDIT:*


danneq said:


> Ostry KC08?
> 
> I've only heard them briefly in the E-earphone shop in Akihabara in Tokyo, but they are described as being quite V shaped...


 
  
 Researching these. These do seem in line with what I'm looking for. What's the difference with the "t" version. Penon Audio only has the regular version.


----------



## mochill

Asura 2 black edition is the same price as the Zen 2 black edition , different sound siggy


----------



## vapman

The ostry has a lot of favorable impressions here. It seems to have held up with the test of time pretty well for V sig fans. Also, rhodium edimun v3.


----------



## ctaxxxx

mochill said:


> Asura 2 black edition is the same price as the Zen 2 black edition , different sound siggy




Damn. Why is it the same price if the Asura's are cheaper than the Zen's? I'll pass on that. Already saving for Cypherus' TOTL bud in that same price range.


----------



## mochill

Same level performance


----------



## barbazz

In the quest for the next big thing in budget earbuds, sometimes we forget what we already have around. I decided to give another chance to my Mrice E100 today and I was overwhelmed with the clarity and soundstage. Not sure if it was the music (in the mood for Fields of the Nephilim and the likes today...) or the fact the volume was lower than usual (I found them a bit harsh in the highs at louder volumes), but I'm glad I've picked them today. Christian Death's Gitane DeMone eerie back vocals in "Chimere de Si de La" gave me the creeps...


----------



## chinmie

vapman said:


> well controlled sub bass with no mid bass exaggeration (that awful kind of  bass)




this is in fact my preferred bass sound  



ctaxxxx said:


> Does anyone know of any V-Shaped earbuds that extend in the outer-most frequencies?
> 
> The HS Cadenza's I own are good, but they are lifted in the mid-bass and upper-mids. It would be nice the hear something that is more towards the sub-bass and treble. Maybe neutral mids, instead of distant, if possible...
> 
> *EDIT:* So I guess CampFred's but with more sparkly treble? I can sacrifice mids since I have a lot of mid-focused earbuds.




from what i have, i think the diomnes and edimun V3 is V-shaped. the diomnes has better rounded bass, while the edimun is more sparkly on the treble side. 

i have just aquired this recabled blox b200:


i really like the sound. balanced overall, and the signature sound is... nice.. i don't know how to describe it. it's a pleasant to hear. i love the soundstage too


----------



## flamesofarctica

1trickpony said:


> Zen 2.0 having less bass than Asura 2.0? uhhhhh bro you might wanna use them rubber fits or hooks. Asura felt more out of balance with the lower half of the spectrum.
> 
> unless there's shoddy make in the last batch :S
> 
> ...




Ah, I wasn't complaining about the Zen 2, far from it, it has plenty bass for my needs. I wouldn't try to talk somebody into getting it based on its bass though, not that it's not capable just that doesn't seem to be the focus of its sound signature. I may have explained myself badly.

I much prefer it without the rubber rings anyway, although I've tried it and that increases the bass, it's unnecessary. The earbuds naked give the perfect balance for what I want. No faults whatsoever, it's an awesome earbud. Haven't heard more gorgeous vocals for example.

For that and the Asura 2 I only listen either amped or through the Walnut. I wouldn't describe the Asura 2 as bassy by any means, that isn't what I meant. It just sounds bass capable (if that makes sense)... it makes good work of it, while it feels like there's more in the tank - like it's all well under control and it could handle whatever you threw at it. I feel like there's some kind of fighting or running analogy but I hate sports analogies they get overused in life, so I won't go there :-D


----------



## golov17

vapman said:


> Thank you man, i will skip em


 Well, then, if money is not a pity go to Ostry kc08t


----------



## alstone

I'm reading very contradictory reviews for the 3800 and even the monk plus. The nature of earbuds is that they fit differently in different people's ears, so fit is not especially easy to replicate. Also, people are using different covers: thin foam, thick foam, rubber donuts, naked, etc. 
  
 These two earbuds are so inexpensive, it's not really worth the time to delve into specifics of reviews. Just buy them. They are super inexpensive and both are high quality: very high given the price. You can fine tune the listening experience as noted above. Or, just pass them along. 
  
 The 3800's are about the cost of a soda or coffee. It's not really worth the bother of generating graphs etc. Just buy and listen. And enjoy.


----------



## Raketen

Finally got an asura 2!... but its balanced out of phase or grounded something, accidental DIY version!


----------



## vapman

raketen said:


> Finally got an asura 2!... but its balanced out of phase or grounded something, accidental DIY version!




Throw a nice 3.5mm on it and call it a day


----------



## LH86

Got my 3rd pair of Masya few days ago this one is carbon fiber version. 

I need some backup just in case if they ever break as I really like the way they sound. When I first heard the Mojito I think they have incredible SQ but after I tried the Masya WOW I just can't take them out of my ears.


----------



## vapman

**** ATTN: American Earbudders ****​  ​ *I am gonna send a set of MAG-7 around for those who might want to give it a listen.  (There are about 1-2 spaces left)*​  ​ Anyone who wants to hear it, get in touch. If you join in, please be sure you can forward it to the next person in line in a timely manner. ​  ​ *If interested please PM me as opposed to posting in here =)*​  ​ Apologies to int'l people, but int'l shipping is expensive and tricky. Maybe if there is enough interest it can take a trip thru Europe or Canada too.​


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman I hope to hear the Mag-7 soon


----------



## LH86

As I'm now got all variants of the Masya here is a comparison between 3 of them.

Build quality

Original Masya: 4/10
New Masya: 6/10
Carbon fiber Masya: 6.5-7/10


Sound quality

Original Masya: 10/10
New Masya: 6/10
Carbon fiber Masya: 10/10


Carbon fiber version, original version either brass color grills or silver color grills have exactly the same SQ and sound signature.

The new version with different grills as you see in picture below have different sound signature and lower SQ IMO.


----------



## ClieOS

For those of you who are attending CanJam Singapore over this weekend, I'll be bringing my Rose Mojito / Masya and Shozy BK with me. If you bump into me, you are welcomed to give them a listen.


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> @vapman I hope to hear the Mag-7 soon


 
 According to a little birdie that day is like tomorrow?


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman said:


> According to a little birdie that day is like tomorrow?




Sweet, might have to dig out my receiver which should give me more than enough power and some bassy goodness.


----------



## vapman

lh86 said:


> As I'm now got all variants of the Masya here is a comparison between 3 of them.
> 
> Build quality
> 
> ...


 
 I was _this close_ *pinches fingers together* to getting a new Masya. Glad I decided not to at the last minute 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Man what are you doing Rose?!?!
  
 Very weird if the carbon fiber still uses the old driver but the new one doesn't? and that front cover is very reminiscent of the Sanyo earbuds which showed up DOA to me and @ClieOS had unfavorable impresssions of.


----------



## LH86

vapman said:


> Very weird if the carbon fiber still uses the old driver but the new one doesn't? and that front cover is very reminiscent of the Sanyo earbuds which showed up DOA to me and @ClieOS
> had unfavorable impresssions of.




Agree very weird.


----------



## 1TrickPony

lh86 said:


> Got my 3rd pair of Masya few days ago this one is carbon fiber version.
> 
> I need some backup just in case if they ever break as I really like the way they sound. When I first heard the Mojito I think they have incredible SQ but after I tried the Masya WOW I just can't take them out of my ears.




little review please m


----------



## Saoshyant

Kinda off topic, but does anyone know of a roughly 8' MMCX cable?  Would need something roughly that length to use some earbuds with my TV, and I figure MMCX might be easier than having an earbud recabled.


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> Kinda off topic, but does anyone know of a roughly 8' MMCX cable?  Would need something roughly that length to use some earbuds with my TV, and I figure MMCX might be easier than having an earbud recabled.


 
 I've never seen one prebuilt that's over 3 or 4 feet, have you considered something like a 10-12 foot 3.5mm extension?


----------



## ClieOS

We are not cavemen, get yourself some wireless headphone!


----------



## LH86

1trickpony said:


> little review please m




A very briefly review is

PROS: Amazing SQ, good soundstage, very excel at vocal and stunning mid-high with right amount and good if not great quality bass(basshead may find little too less).

Very easy to drive can connect to decent smartphone/DAPs and sound incredible right out of those low power sources and even still have hidden potential when amping them good.

CONS: Soundstage is not as impressive as the Mojito and build quality is questionable in original version.

Also really unforgiving to bad quality files/records to the level that sometimes make some bad record tracks become unlistenable.


Soundstage: Good depth but not as wide as Mojito but still fairy wide compare to other upper-mid/high-end earbuds.

Instrumental Separation is also good here.

Lows: Very controlled, well texture and body and fairly deep with right amount but basshead may find it too small amount.

Mids: Very crisp and natural very nice vocal. Sound very clean and not toward warm or cold at all.

Highs: Sparkly and very detailed while not being harsh.

Compare to the Mojito, if Mojito is for incredible soundstage and clinical detailed sound at cost of Lows and a little bit cold and tad regressed Mids.

Masya is more refined version of Mojito for vocal Mids and Lows at cost of soundstage.

Note: If you put on Hiegi's donut foam on the Masya the gap between Masya and Mojito in term of Highs will be smaller significantly highly recommend.

The Masya is for sure one of the best earbuds available out there.

Also they aren't fragile as they seem. My wife dropped them twice from about 3-4 ft to wooden floor but still no visible or audible damage so far.


----------



## Ira Delphic

vapman said:


> saoshyant said:
> 
> 
> > Kinda off topic, but does anyone know of a roughly 8' MMCX cable?  Would need something roughly that length to use some earbuds with my TV, and I figure MMCX might be easier than having an earbud recabled.
> ...


 
  
 Agreed and you can get 8' extension for around $2 from Monoprice. And when that goes bad at the jack (it will not take long lol) then replace with your own quality 3.5mm jack.


----------



## vapman

Oh, also bluetooth receivers are an excellent option. Here's an image i made for another thread and will post here too. except for TV watching it's fine to use the receiver's output


----------



## Ira Delphic

vapman said:


> Oh, also bluetooth receivers are an excellent option. Here's an image i made for another thread and will post here too. except for TV watching it's fine to use the receiver's output


 
  
 There's low latency bluetooth (aptX ?) that works fine for TV. But by cutting the cord there are still the power issue - power for the receiver or headphones. When that is considered, an extension cable is simple, dirt cheap and no battery/power needed.


----------



## vapman

ira delphic said:


> There's low latency bluetooth (aptX ?) that works fine for TV. But by cutting the cord there are still the power issue - power for the receiver or headphones. When that is considered, an extension cable is simple, dirt cheap and no battery/power needed.


 
 That receiver in particular i linked has an internal battery and charges off micro USB. Of course you might need a BT transmitter but those either come with an AC adapter or can be USB powered, and barely draw any power so even a 500mA usb port would keep it alive.
  
 I mean, my $50 Android tv box can be powered off USB if plugged into a port that can deliver 1.5A. That's a transmitter and my non-smart TV has a couple USB ports for playing videos off a usb drive...


----------



## fairx

clieos said:


> For those of you who are attending CanJam Singapore over this weekend, I'll be bringing my Rose Mojito / Masya and Shozy BK with me. If you bump into me, you are welcomed to give them a listen.


I'm skipping this year CanJam. Time not on my side. But I would be thankful if you extend your offer if there's a meet somewhere in Malaysia in the future.


----------



## Saoshyant

I'll probably just do an inexpensive extension cord as the headphone I'm using is amusing, but I'd be more comfortable for a long stretch with buds.


----------



## DBaldock9

charlesrievone said:


> Probably the Bhobuds MAG-7, which I have been so interested for the past couple of days


 
  
  
 Quote:


vapman said:


> What can i say? If you have an amp they can't be beaten. No competition! Moreso if you EQ in a little bass. But, that's just my opinion...! Take it with a grain of salt, or a few watts of amp power...


 
  
 Do you also have the Bhobuds mod'd Walnut V2?
 Or, have you heard it, and is it worth buying?


----------



## kim7135

fairx said:


> I'm skipping this year CanJam. Time not on my side. But I would be thankful if you extend your offer if there's a meet somewhere in Malaysia in the future.


 
 Agree, that would be a great opportunity for those based in Malaysia, if it ever does come!
  
 Have always thought about pulling the trigger for a Rose or Shozy, but never got to as I don't want to end up not liking the SQ after purchasing it.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

clieos said:


> We are not cavemen, get yourself some wireless headphone!


 
 In the case of radiation from cell phones and blue tooth, a caveman is smarter than a modern man by saying, NO!
  
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=bluetooth+technology+bad+for+health&*


----------



## chaiyuta

vapman said:


> Oh, also bluetooth receivers are an excellent option. Here's an image i made for another thread and will post here too. except for TV watching it's fine to use the receiver's output


 
 Oh... You are Van Gogh re-born!! This picture is really abstract especially both arms. Haha


----------



## silverfishla

lh86 said:


> As I'm now got all variants of the Masya here is a comparison between 3 of them.
> 
> Build quality
> 
> ...


 
 I think that it is weird, design wise, that they would go with a grill like that, since the center of earbuds don't always exactly line up with the center of one's earholes that concisely.  I'm sure they have their reasons, but the Masya already sounded amazing, so why change them?


----------



## Raketen

dbaldock9 said:


> Do you also have the Bhobuds mod'd Walnut V2?
> Or, have you heard it, and is it worth buying?




I should hope he has one! ... being the modder and all


----------



## DBaldock9

raketen said:


> I should hope he has one! ... being the modder and all


 

 So, you're saying that @vapman _is_ Bhobuds?


----------



## Brian Coffey

dbaldock9 said:


> So, you're saying that @vapman _is_ Bhobuds?


 
 Yes


----------



## CharlesRievone

dbaldock9 said:


> So, you're saying that @vapman _is_ Bhobuds?


 

 Haha yeah, the one and only. Can't really blame you for not knowing though, he hasn't really advertised anything on this thread about Bhobuds, aside from the MAG-7 tour.
  
 Speaking of, @vapman, where is Bhobuds located? Just wanted to know so that if ever I jump the gun and buy your buds I'll know the nearest forwarder address I should use


----------



## silverfishla

@vapman I know that you've been working at modding the **** PT15... how is that going?


----------



## vapman

silverfishla said:


> @vapman I know that you've been working at modding the **** PT15... how is that going?


 
  
 I've been so busy with getting Monks litzed up that I haven't gotten around to it yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But the good news is that I have shells for them, i dismantled a pair safely (so stupidly hard to do, so much glue in there) and once i have a little more downtime i'ma figure out the best mod for it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The stock shells are not at all conducive to the best sound...
  


charlesrievone said:


> Haha yeah, the one and only. Can't really blame you for not knowing though, he hasn't really advertised anything on this thread about Bhobuds, aside from the MAG-7 tour.
> 
> Speaking of, @vapman, where is Bhobuds located? Just wanted to know so that if ever I jump the gun and buy your buds I'll know the nearest forwarder address I should use


 
 New England USA
  


dbaldock9 said:


> Do you also have the Bhobuds mod'd Walnut V2?
> Or, have you heard it, and is it worth buying?


 
 I haven't released any to the public yet. It's like 95% finalized though, and there's a big line of people waiting for me to finish...!!


----------



## DBaldock9

vapman said:


> I've been so busy with getting Monks litzed up that I haven't gotten around to it yet
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Sounds like an interesting project.  Do you have an estimated price in mind?


----------



## Ira Delphic

dbaldock9 said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > I've been so busy with getting Monks litzed up that I haven't gotten around to it yet
> ...


 
  
 Google "bhobuds"


----------



## DBaldock9

ira delphic said:


> Google "bhobuds"


 

 I'm looking at his website, but the modded Walnut V2 doesn't have a price listed yet.


----------



## n1xon

The right earbud for my travel PK2's is either dead or I need to re-solder a wire back on not sure yet. Either way I would like to try something else and possible something that is better.
  
 I like bass and live in the US, any suggestions or input would be great.
  
 Also it's hard to search for in this thread but has anyone found a decent recable that includes mic or volume controls.


----------



## vapman

n1xon said:


> The right earbud for my travel PK2's is either dead or I need to re-solder a wire back on not sure yet. Either way I would like to try something else and possible something that is better.
> 
> I like bass and live in the US, any suggestions or input would be great.
> 
> Also it's hard to search for in this thread but has anyone found a decent recable that includes mic or volume controls.


 
 It's cheaper to get some used iPhone buds, pop em open and take the cable off than it is to get a premade cable + mic anywhere in the USA


----------



## DBaldock9

vapman said:


> I've been so busy with getting Monks litzed up that I haven't gotten around to it yet
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Are you putting the PT15 drivers in larger shells, to enhance their Bass?
  
 What are the best drivers that can be purchased online?


----------



## vapman

dbaldock9 said:


> Are you putting the PT15 drivers in larger shells, to enhance their Bass?
> 
> What are the best drivers that can be purchased online?


 
 Best drivers for what exactly?
  
 I am actually putting the PT15 in Edifier H180/SHE3800 style shells, this was my original mod tactic although I broke one driver before i could test a full set like this... I have a couple other shells to try when i get around to it, and by my measurements appears to also possibly be a fit for the Yuin style shells, which would be ideal for comfort but can't say how it will be for sound...  However you can trust that if I have anything to do with it, I will squeeze every last bit of bass out of the driver possible. =)


----------



## DBaldock9

vapman said:


> Best drivers for what exactly?
> 
> I am actually putting the PT15 in Edifier H180/SHE3800 style shells, this was my original mod tactic although I broke one driver before i could test a full set like this... I have a couple other shells to try when i get around to it, and by my measurements appears to also possibly be a fit for the Yuin style shells, which would be ideal for comfort but can't say how it will be for sound...  However you can trust that if I have anything to do with it, I will squeeze every last bit of bass out of the driver possible. =)


 
  
 Well, I guess best for Bass, and overall audio performance.


----------



## EZE99

Best single driver IEM?  Dual driver?  Triple Driver?  Quad driver? ...


----------



## JASru

eze99 said:


> Best single driver IEM?  Dual driver?  Triple Driver?  Quad driver? ...


 
 Wrong thread bro. Earbuds only, no IEM here.


----------



## 1TrickPony

eze99 said:


> Best single driver IEM?  Dual driver?  Triple Driver?  Quad driver? ...





uuuuh not sure if it's right thread bruh


----------



## EZE99

1trickpony said:


> uuuuh not sure if it's right thread bruh


 

 You are right, my bad haha


----------



## ctaxxxx

Okay, so I got the new FiiO X5 3rd gen today. Wow, this DAP removes almost all the harshness I was literally just complaining about with the Cadenza's (and I just ordered the KC08 too...).

My other earbuds sound a little more spacious too. CampFred sounds a little fuller. Might need to give the Mojito another try. I didn't realize the Onkyo sounded so bright in comparison. Though now my Shozy's sound a little too tamed. Need to give it some more listening.


----------



## nmatheis

Waiting on bhobuds from our resident earbuds modder. Can't wait to try, although USPS seems to be conspiring against me. Boo! 

I'll also be getting ABNormal Dietris, Crow Raven, and ELi Sabia v4 once tjstyle is fine with my Nuansa P1. So excited for all the Indonesian DIY gear, too!


----------



## notamethlab

1st earbuds mades by yours truly  very happy with how these turned out.


----------



## vapman

nmatheis said:


> Waiting on bhobuds from our resident earbuds modder. Can't wait to try, although USPS seems to be conspiring against me. Boo!
> 
> I'll also be getting ABNormal Dietris, Crow Raven, and ELi Sabia v4 once @tjstyle is fine with my Nuansa P1. So excited for all the Indonesian DIY gear, too!


 
 Oh man, please do compare to all that fancy indonesian gear once they make it in. And do not pull any punches!


----------



## alstone

ctaxxxx said:


> Okay, so I got the new FiiO X5 3rd gen today. Wow, this DAP removes almost all the harshness I was literally just complaining about with the Cadenza's (and I just ordered the KC08 too...).
> 
> My other earbuds sound a little more spacious too. CampFred sounds a little fuller. Might need to give the Mojito another try. I didn't realize the Onkyo sounded so bright in comparison. Though now my Shozy's sound a little too tamed. Need to give it some more listening.


 
 Wow, I didn't even know there WAS a X5iii. Fiio releases more revisions than apple!


----------



## Fabi

alstone said:


> Wow, I didn't even know there WAS a X5iii. Fiio releases more revisions than apple!


Yep just released, maybe the new king of $400 daps


----------



## fairx

vapman said:


> I've been so busy with getting Monks litzed up that I haven't gotten around to it yet   But the good news is that I have shells for them, i dismantled a pair safely (so stupidly hard to do, so much glue in there) and once i have a little more downtime i'ma figure out the best mod for it   The stock shells are not at all conducive to the best sound...
> 
> New England USA
> 
> I haven't released any to the public yet. It's like 95% finalized though, and there's a big line of people waiting for me to finish...!!


congrats bro. When I visit bhobuds website I thought something seem familiar. 

Thought of releasing something related to earbuds too.. soon but not too soon.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

ctaxxxx said:


> Okay, so I got the new FiiO X5 3rd gen today. Wow, this DAP removes almost all the harshness I was literally just complaining about with the Cadenza's (and I just ordered the KC08 too...).


 
  


fabi said:


> Yep just released, maybe the new king of $400 daps


 
  
 I LOVE my FiiO X5 3rd Gen.

 The synergy between the X5 3rd Gen and the Rose Masya is quite palpable.. 
  
  

  
  
  
 --


----------



## 1TrickPony

bloodypenguin said:


> I LOVE my FiiO X5 3rd Gen.
> 
> 
> The synergy between the X5 3rd Gen and the Rose Masya is quite palpable..
> ...




impressions please? there was fair debate too that all Masya's not sound the same  perhaps if there is a to confirm innards too.

lastly could you provide a comparison with say K's 500 bud too since you spoke well of them.


----------



## Robert Turnbull

On the edifier official store on AE has got he H180 and H185 @ $9.
  
 Should I go for the H180 or the H185? The H180 looks nicer.....................


----------



## one1speed

1trickpony said:


> impressions please? there was fair debate too that all Masya's not sound the same
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 +1


----------



## nmatheis

vapman said:


> Oh man, please do compare to all that fancy indonesian gear once they make it in. And do not pull any punches!




Will do. Just hoping the package gets here today / tomorrow as I'm heading out of country Saturday afternoon...


----------



## vapman

robert turnbull said:


> On the edifier official store on AE has got he H180 and H185 @ $9.
> 
> Should I go for the H180 or the H185? The H180 looks nicer.....................


 
 H180 for sure IMO, H185 is too V shaped and has less modding potential.
  


nmatheis said:


> Will do. Just hoping the package gets here today / tomorrow as I'm heading out of country Saturday afternoon...


 
 Hit me up if no news today and ill overnight two new ones bro for FREE.
 You can send the other ones home when you back in the US of A.


----------



## tinkertailor

barbazz said:


> You're completely right, I was fooled by the advertising in the page and only looked to the box
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I see the brand name FENGRU marked in the "brand" section on a wide variety of earbuds and products (just search "fengru" aliexpress, then look in product descriptions). Is this a translation thing, or are all these products (that include FAAEAL, Yincrow, yinman, other diy) all from the same company?


----------



## notamethlab

robert turnbull said:


> On the edifier official store on AE has got he H180 and H185 @ $9.
> 
> Should I go for the H180 or the H185? The H180 looks nicer.....................




The h180 gets more love, especially since it is the base for the edimun mod. 

The 180 can be found for $7-8 with epacket shipping, just in case the edifier store doesn't have epacket.


----------



## nmatheis

vapman said:


> H180 for sure IMO, H185 is too V shaped and has less modding potential.
> 
> Hit me up if no news today and ill overnight two new ones bro for FREE.
> You can send the other ones home when you back in the US of A.




Thanks for the offer, bro. I don't want you to be out the hefty overnight shipping charge, though. Hopefully they'll be waiting for me when I return from Dublin. 

I'm just shocked that USPS has no update on a package with 2-day shipping that was supposed to arrive last Saturday. I mean, what the heck is wrong with USPS. That's just ridiculous!


----------



## barbazz

tinkertailor said:


> I see the brand name FENGRU marked in the "brand" section on a wide variety of earbuds and products (just search "fengru" aliexpress, then look in product descriptions). Is this a translation thing, or are all these products (that include FAAEAL, Yincrow, yinman, other diy) all from the same company?


 
  
 Oddly enough, Google translates FENGRU (丰乳) as breast milk


----------



## 1TrickPony

barbazz said:


> Oddly enough, Google translates FENGRU (丰乳) as breast milk


 
  
 hm, did the reviewer also mention that the buds "sounded like t1ts??" lmao


----------



## AkashS04

vapman said:


> H180 for sure IMO, H185 is too V shaped and has less modding potential.
> 
> Hit me up if no news today and ill overnight two new ones bro for FREE.
> You can send the other ones home when you back in the US of A.


 
 What is IMO?


----------



## Brian Coffey

akashs04 said:


> What is IMO?


 
 In My Opinion


----------



## AkashS04

Gotcha.... I was aware of IEM so was thinking that what is this new term IMO


----------



## vapman

nmatheis said:


> Thanks for the offer, bro. I don't want you to be out the hefty overnight shipping charge, though. Hopefully they'll be waiting for me when I return from Dublin.
> 
> I'm just shocked that USPS has no update on a package with 2-day shipping that was supposed to arrive last Saturday. I mean, what the heck is wrong with USPS. That's just ridiculous!


 
 I can eat 20 bucks dude but if you're sure i bet you they show up like 30 mins after you dip for the airport


----------



## voxdub

robert turnbull said:


> On the edifier official store on AE has got he H180 and H185 @ $9.
> 
> Should I go for the H180 or the H185? The H180 looks nicer.....................



I actually really like the look of the H185, not got a pair though, love the H180s.


----------



## vapman

Keep your eyes peeled. At the end of the MAG7 tour that set is going to the folks at Headfonia.


----------



## CharlesRievone

vapman said:


> Keep your eyes peeled. At the end of the MAG7 tour that set is going to the folks at Headfonia.


 

 Just also managed to poison Micheal from headfonics.com to get the MAG7


----------



## vapman

charlesrievone said:


> Just also managed to poison Micheal from headfonics.com to get the MAG7


 
 Good lookin out my man! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I can't recommend the blox b320 enough if you don't need big bass BTW. I still take it outside when im doing errands half the time. A truly unique tone though, it is not for everyone.


----------



## CharlesRievone

@vapman Climbing up to the mainstream! Goodluck! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The MAG7 will probably be the last buds that i'll buy for the next few months though, since I also acquired some other new toys to play with 
 But thanks for the recommendation. I'll move this up on my list for the next purchases.


----------



## chinmie

robert turnbull said:


> On the edifier official store on AE has got he H180 and H185 @ $9.
> 
> Should I go for the H180 or the H185? The H180 looks nicer.....................




haven't try the stock 180,i only have the modded ones, but the stock 185 i really like,I'm using it with double foam the ease the treble though


----------



## vapman

chinmie said:


> haven't try the stock 180,i only have the modded ones, but the stock 185 i really like,I'm using it with double foam the ease the treble though


 
 Buy the stock 180, add a rhodium plug or gold plug for 90% of the edimun v3 sound.
  
 Red demun is a little harder to approximate. takes more than a plug swap to get most of the way there
  
 Gonna make a youtube on how to be good at earbud DIY after I get a little less busy. The whole industry of DIY makers relies on keeping the whole process secret as if it's so mystikal. I'd show any of you willing to pick up a soldering iron what's good and people will still hit me up


----------



## n1xon

vapman said:


> Buy the stock 180, add a rhodium plug or gold plug for 90% of the edimun v3 sound.
> 
> Red demun is a little harder to approximate. takes more than a plug swap to get most of the way there
> 
> Gonna make a youtube on how to be good at earbud DIY after I get a little less busy. The whole industry of DIY makers relies on keeping the whole process secret as if it's so mystikal. I'd show any of you willing to pick up a soldering iron what's good and people will still hit me up


 
  
 got any links to the rhodium plug or gold plug that you would suggest for that?


----------



## chinmie

vapman said:


> Buy the stock 180, add a rhodium plug or gold plug for 90% of the edimun v3 sound.
> 
> Red demun is a little harder to approximate. takes more than a plug swap to get most of the way there
> 
> Gonna make a youtube on how to be good at earbud DIY after I get a little less busy. The whole industry of DIY makers relies on keeping the whole process secret as if it's so mystikal. I'd show any of you willing to pick up a soldering iron what's good and people will still hit me up




i'm curious is there a way to make the plug on the edimun hot swappable between the gold one and the rhodium, so we can get two character sound in one earbud. oddly enough, nowadays my go-to all arounder earbuds are the edimun and the blox b200. the others are great, but seem specialized compared to the blox and edimun


----------



## Benjamin Ruan

Wow!


----------



## vapman

n1xon said:


> got any links to the rhodium plug or gold plug that you would suggest for that?


 
 I am a big fan of neutrik myself and the rhodiums you can pay $15 for an Eidolic. However the aliexpress ones are fine too. Neutrik is good stuff if you want gold or whatever.
  
  


chinmie said:


> i'm curious is there a way to make the plug on the edimun hot swappable between the gold one and the rhodium, so we can get two character sound in one earbud. oddly enough, nowadays my go-to all arounder earbuds are the edimun and the blox b200. the others are great, but seem specialized compared to the blox and edimun


 
 Probably I would suggest you re-terminate to quick disconnects but then it becomes difficult because at some point one of those connectors will be made of some kind of material.... there is no easy way really aside from picking one you like more?


----------



## DBaldock9

vapman said:


> I am a big fan of neutrik myself and the rhodiums you can pay $15 for an Eidolic. However the aliexpress ones are fine too. Neutrik is good stuff if you want gold or whatever.
> 
> 
> Probably I would suggest you re-terminate to quick disconnects but then it becomes difficult because at some point one of those connectors will be made of some kind of material.... there is no easy way really aside from picking one you like more?


 
  
 Buy two edimuns?


----------



## chinmie

vapman said:


> Probably I would suggest you re-terminate to quick disconnects but then it becomes difficult because at some point one of those connectors will be made of some kind of material.... there is no easy way really aside from picking one you like more?




true that. i will be on the lookout for edimun gold then


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

chinmie said:


> i'm curious is there a way to make the plug on the edimun hot swappable between the gold one and the rhodium, so we can get two character sound in one earbud. oddly enough, nowadays my go-to all arounder earbuds are the edimun and the blox b200. the others are great, but seem specialized compared to the blox and edimun


 
 I'm glad to hear you found what you're looking for, and for a much better price than some of those other $200 ear buds.


----------



## Robert Turnbull

notamethlab said:


> The h180 gets more love, especially since it is the base for the edimun mod.
> 
> The 180 can be found for $7-8 with epacket shipping, just in case the edifier store doesn't have epacket.




H180 in the basket!

I live in Mauritius.. so no ePacket! For me SG post is the fastest, followed by NL, HK and somewhere far away.. CN post.

Am waiting for:

She3800
UiiSii U2
1more EO320

Just got my (lost for months) e808+, its very nice! Now my fav nite time buds.. Listening to the older infected mushroom albums!


----------



## ballog

Nice to see a fellow Mauritian here! Thought I was the only one for the past 12 years or so 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I've had the H180 for more than 2 years but just recently decided to recable (ordered some braided cable last week). They are already impressive and always thought the drivers had a lot of potential.
  
 P.S. Just realised that you said you 'live in Mauritius' not that you're mauritian - my bad. Anyway we share the same perks with respect to ordering audio gears online 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Robert Turnbull

ballog said:


> Nice to see a fellow Mauritian here! Thought I was the only one for the past 12 years or so  . I've had the H180 for more than 2 years but just recently decided to recable (ordered some braided cable last week). They are already impressive and always thought the drivers had a lot of potential.
> 
> P.S. Just realised that you said you 'live in Mauritius' not that you're mauritian - my bad. Anyway we share the same perks with respect to ordering audio gears online  .




Haha i am Mauritian  and live in Mauritius too 

I am still plodding through the budget picks untill I find my preferred earbud signature.. For IEMs I have already found (my) endgame in the LZ-A4

@akash - You should try the LZ-A4.. Its a open back vented design and doesnt have the usual IEM vacumn feel..


----------



## JASru

Dietris is really nice. If Shozy BK is like a concert hall-like(not an opera hall, though), this one is like an old smoked through'n'through bar with spotlight for a band. Not so much of revealing,some details are missing, but it is so neat that you don't give a damn. 
  
 Comfy is what they are.

 For those who chase not the best details and clarity for auditioning, but the best buds for work - consider this as an option. Zero sibilance, zero-fatigue and nice warm sound overall. Treble is a bit rolled off, bass is sometimes too gentle( i mean the impact, not the quantity - quantity is just right), but overall it is a splendid earbud, especially given a reasonable pricing.

 Finally I have something to compare K's 300 with. Hopefully, I can finish the comparison of K's line-up this weekend.
 Meanwhile, I learned that there is one more K's that is present only on Tao - K's 150.


----------



## Ira Delphic

jasru said:


> Dietris is really nice. If Shozy BK is like a concert hall-like(not an opera hall, though), this one is like an old smoked through'n'through bar with spotlight for a band. Not so much of revealing,some details are missing, but it is so neat that you don't give a damn.
> 
> Comfy is what they are.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That is exactly how I'd describe the Monk+.


----------



## JASru

ira delphic said:


> That is exactly how I'd describe the Monk+.


 
 Well, no. Bass is definetly MUCH better than the Monk+, both in quality and quantity.


----------



## AkashS04

robert turnbull said:


> H180 in the basket!
> 
> I live in Mauritius.. so no ePacket! For me SG post is the fastest, followed by NL, HK and somewhere far away.. CN post.
> 
> ...


 
 Can you pls share link of UiiSii S2?


----------



## nmatheis

jasru said:


> Dietris is really nice. If Shozy BK is like a concert hall-like(not an opera hall, though), this one is like an old smoked through'n'through bar with spotlight for a band. Not so much of revealing,some details are missing, but it is so neat that you don't give a damn.
> 
> Comfy is what they are.
> 
> ...




White or Black Dietris?


----------



## JASru

nmatheis said:


> White or Black Dietris?


 White one.


----------



## Robert Turnbull

akashs04 said:


> Can you pls share link of UiiSii S2?




Sorry i meant UiiSii U2

https://fs.tc/p/4955300


----------



## AkashS04

robert turnbull said:


> Sorry i meant UiiSii U2
> 
> https://fs.tc/p/4955300


 
 They look beautiful but I checked with Seller and unfortunately they don't have enough Bass. Seems not that good for Bassheads. But if you buy them, I will love to read your review


----------



## nmatheis

jasru said:


> White one.




That's what I guessed from your post. My White Dietris should be on the way soon...


----------



## fairx

robert turnbull said:


> Haha i am Mauritian  and live in Mauritius too
> 
> I am still plodding through the budget picks untill I find my preferred earbud signature.. For IEMs I have already found (my) endgame in the LZ-A4
> 
> @akash - You should try the LZ-A4.. Its a open back vented design and doesnt have the usual IEM vacumn feel..


how would you compare Lz A4 to your best sounding earbud? If you don't mind answering. Bit off topic but just curious.


----------



## Robert Turnbull

fairx said:


> how would you compare Lz A4 to your best sounding earbud? If you don't mind answering. Bit off topic but just curious.




The LZ A4 has sublime bass and subbass i dont think (from my budget selection) an earbud can replicate.. other than that the treble is very clear and not muddied by the powerful bass. The monk+ sounds very veiled compared to the A4 IMO.. From my current buds i would say the A4 sounds a bit like the e808+ signature.. But with clean powerful bass and clarity all over.. (i use the red bass and blue treble filter)


----------



## vapman

I didn't realize it's not widely knows, but Blox does make their own drivers, so I like to support them as they're doing more than the usual tuning of existing drivers. (of course plenty of other people make their own drivers too, but it's either budget level China stuff or high end China stuff... Blox is Thai)
  


robert turnbull said:


> *The LZ A4 has sublime bass and subbass i dont think ... an earbud can replicate..*


  

 Wanna bet?


----------



## DBaldock9

vapman said:


> I didn't realize it's not widely knows, but Blox does make their own drivers, so I like to support them as they're doing more than the usual tuning of existing drivers. (of course plenty of other people make their own drivers too, but it's either budget level China stuff or high end China stuff... Blox is Thai)
> 
> 
> Do you offer any modded Blox models?
> ...


----------



## vapman

dbaldock9 said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't realize it's not widely knows, but Blox does make their own drivers, so I like to support them as they're doing more than the usual tuning of existing drivers. (of course plenty of other people make their own drivers too, but it's either budget level China stuff or high end China stuff... Blox is Thai)
> ...


 
 Not me myself, but as someone who's had old Blox and current models of Blox, the new ones don't really NEED the modding.
  
 The old ones used the worst cables on earth and the cheapest 3.5mm plugs yet still sounded good. Some people offered mod services for them in Indonesia and such in the past I've heard...
  
 The new ones (b160, b320) use far superior cables to older model Blox. The only thing I could really suggest doing is chopping off the 3.5mm and replacing it with a nicer one. Even that is not particularly worth it.
  
 Just be warned though, the b160/b320 are by no means all rounders! I always end up playing a song that totally sucks on them and just sounds backwards.


----------



## Robert Turnbull

vapman said:


> I didn't realize it's not widely knows, but Blox does make their own drivers, so I like to support them as they're doing more than the usual tuning of existing drivers. (of course plenty of other people make their own drivers too, but it's either budget level China stuff or high end China stuff... Blox is Thai)
> 
> Wanna bet?




Haha  I meant from an isolation standpoint, it increases the quality of bass and i could hear textures missing from my other iems and buds.. infact if i could find an earbud-lz-a4 i would be super happy !! Earbuds i enjoy more @ nite as they are so much more comfy ..


----------



## notamethlab

robert turnbull said:


> H180 in the basket!
> 
> I live in Mauritius.. so no ePacket! For me SG post is the fastest, followed by NL, HK and somewhere far away.. CN post.
> 
> ...


 
Very nice choices, the she3800 is impressive considering its low price. 

I'd also recommend a monk+, if you don't have it already. I've said this before but, I feel like everyone should have at least one pair of monk+s


----------



## DBaldock9

vapman said:


> dbaldock9 said:
> 
> 
> > vapman said:
> ...




What is their signature sound like? 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## AkashS04

robert turnbull said:


> Sorry i meant UiiSii U2
> 
> https://fs.tc/p/4955300


 
 Don't forget to post details review in comparison with 3800, H180 and 1More with U2. I am really looking forward for the same.


----------



## vapman

dbaldock9 said:


> What is their signature sound like?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


 
 Thin and nearly no bass at all. I need to do extreme bass boosting just to hear a hint of sub bass. It can sound like AM radio until you acclimate to the sound (few seconds in my case) and it then has great treble extension and above average detailing in the mids and treble, but still virtually no bass reach. It is a nicer variation on the Ucotech sound, or most any other high mids/treble oriented bud i've heard.


----------



## DBaldock9

vapman said:


> Thin and nearly no bass at all. I need to do extreme bass boosting just to hear a hint of sub bass. It can sound like AM radio until you acclimate to the sound (few seconds in my case) and it then has great treble extension and above average detailing in the mids and treble, but still virtually no bass reach. It is a nicer variation on the Ucotech sound, or most any other high mids/treble oriented bud i've heard.


 
  
 Ah, OK.
  
 I guess the only earbuds of mine that I consider to be light in the Bass, would be the MusicMaker TKY2 (which is very comfortable to wear (over-the-ear), and has clear, detailed Midrange & Treble), and the 1More Piston (EO303) (with Bass that sounds OK, but not great).
  
 Have you ever modded a TKY2?


----------



## vapman

dbaldock9 said:


> Ah, OK.
> 
> I guess the only earbuds of mine that I consider to be light in the Bass, would be the MusicMaker TKY2 (which is very comfortable to wear (over-the-ear), and has clear, detailed Midrange & Treble), and the 1More Piston (EO303) (with Bass that sounds OK, but not great).
> 
> Have you ever modded a TKY2?


 
 The Blox is definitely similar to a Musicmaker sound signature. I also would consider it vastly more refined than any Musicmaker i've heard.
  
 I don't like Musicmaker stuff or I might consider modding it further (I've owned 2 of their IEMs and 3 of their earbuds, gave away or sold all of them)


----------



## fairx

robert turnbull said:


> The LZ A4 has sublime bass and subbass i dont think (from my budget selection) an earbud can replicate.. other than that the treble is very clear and not muddied by the powerful bass. The monk+ sounds very veiled compared to the A4 IMO.. From my current buds i would say the A4 sounds a bit like the e808+ signature.. But with clean powerful bass and clarity all over.. (i use the red bass and blue treble filter)


hmm I wonder if BA or hybrid can sound like my ty 320. At least Not yet from my previous audition. I'm recalling from memories though. My e80 can reach very very low but slow, and xe800 is better in terms Of bass quality. My ideal mid bass is monk+ though I concur about mid being slightly veiled. Ty 320 bass is speaker like. Nothing in my collection can touch that. I'm gonna miss this year. Singapore can jam because of time constraints. Too bad now that I have clear definition of my kind of bass to compare with latest offer.


----------



## silverfishla

I have the TKY2 by Musicmaker and it's not very good. There's nothing I can do to the outside of it to make it sound very good to my ears. I've been tempted to try to open it up just to see if what they claim is on the inside is actually in there since it is such an underperformer (especially for the price range). Looking at it, I can't figure out how to disassemble it even if I wanted to. I can't figure out how it's put together.


----------



## Tomasz2D

vapman said:


> Thin and nearly no bass at all. I need to do extreme bass boosting just to hear a hint of sub bass. It can sound like AM radio until you acclimate to the sound (few seconds in my case) and it then has great treble extension and above average detailing in the mids and treble, but still virtually no bass reach. It is a nicer variation on the Ucotech sound, or most any other high mids/treble oriented bud i've heard.


 
 I only know B200 sound 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/10485#post_12883184
 but from your description B160/B320 may have similar Blox house sound as B200. In B200 the sound of musical instruments is very untrue and for me B200 was only good for electronic genres where correct reproduction is not that important. What are differences between B160 and B320 anyway?


----------



## Ira Delphic

tomasz2d said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > Thin and nearly no bass at all. I need to do extreme bass boosting just to hear a hint of sub bass. It can sound like AM radio until you acclimate to the sound (few seconds in my case) and it then has great treble extension and above average detailing in the mids and treble, but still virtually no bass reach. It is a nicer variation on the Ucotech sound, or most any other high mids/treble oriented bud i've heard.
> ...


 
  
 There's the difference in impedance - 160Ohm vs. 320Ohm, and the color - white (B320) vs. black (B160) shells. I'm not sure about the plug, cable, and most importantly how they sound.


----------



## swmkdr

Any reviews/impressions of the 1more E1008 dual dynamic earbuds? I've seen mentions and reviews of the E0320 but no reviews for the newer pair. Anyone have these?


----------



## DBaldock9

silverfishla said:


> I have the TKY2 by Musicmaker and it's not very good. There's nothing I can do to the outside of it to make it sound very good to my ears. I've been tempted to try to open it up just to see if what they claim is on the inside is actually in there since it is such an underperformer (especially for the price range). Looking at it, I can't figure out how to disassemble it even if I wanted to. I can't figure out how it's put together.


 

 They've got to be either screwed or glued together, at the Red/Blue colored bands.
  
 Since the wire enters into the back section, and it's possible the driver is attached to the front section - a certain amount of care will be required to separate the sections, without pulling / damaging the solder connections on the drivers.


----------



## vapman

dbaldock9 said:


> They've got to be either screwed or glued together, at the Red/Blue colored bands.
> 
> Since the wire enters into the back section, and it's possible the driver is attached to the front section - a certain amount of care will be required to separate the sections, without pulling / damaging the solder connections on the drivers.


 
 Yup, glue it is. A little time with a heat gun will let you pop em open. There is a lot of glue involved, so they just kind of come apart.


----------



## vapman

tomasz2d said:


> I only know B200 sound
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/10485#post_12883184
> but from your description B160/B320 may have similar Blox house sound as B200. In B200 the sound of musical instruments is very untrue and for me B200 was only good for electronic genres where correct reproduction is not that important. What are differences between B160 and B320 anyway?


 
 I'm awaiting @Townyj to post more, he's the first person here AFAIK to own both models. His b160 is in transit currently.
  
 Glad we all know each other's earbud stashes so well


----------



## DBaldock9

vapman said:


> Yup, glue it is. A little time with a heat gun will let you pop em open. There is a lot of glue involved, so they just kind of come apart.


 

 I see one small, dampened port on each housing (plus the opening for the wire...).
  
 Wondering what sort of experimentation I could do with - sealing the hole; adding more holes; adding, removing, or changing dampening material; etc. - and whether that would make much difference in Bass quantity?


----------



## vapman

dbaldock9 said:


> I see one small, dampened port on each housing (plus the opening for the wire...).
> 
> Wondering what sort of experimentation I could do with - sealing the hole; adding more holes; adding, removing, or changing dampening material; etc. - and whether that would make much difference in Bass quantity?


 
 If you're going to get to doing that much different modding, you will certainly get a sense of how the same mods affect different drivers, shell formats, etc etc etc.
  
 Anything you listed would change the overall sound considerably. There are a few ways to ensure you maximize bass output, the most important being recognizing whether you want the speaker to be ported or enclosed...


----------



## Spiralmind

I never heard nothing as par of well burnt Yuin OK2. Outstanding soundstage, instruments separation, details and sound immersion.

Anyone with experience on OK2 can advice other phones similiares or better.

And any online site selling Yuin actually? i cannot find any, looks like Yuin company died, is true?


----------



## one1speed

spiralmind said:


> And any online site selling Yuin actually? i cannot find any, looks like Yuin company died, is true?


 

 You can find Yuin through Amazon, and I've seen them at Penon Audio as well. I'm sure there are other places, such as Aliexpress, etc.


----------



## tinkertailor

spiralmind said:


> I never heard nothing as par of well burnt Yuin OK2. Outstanding soundstage, instruments separation, details and sound immersion.
> 
> Anyone with experience on OK2 can advice other phones similiares or better.
> 
> And any online site selling Yuin actually? i cannot find any, looks like Yuin company died, is true?


 
 How many other buds have you tried? To be honest , I;ve never heard the Ok2s, but from my understanding they don't differ signifigantly from Pk series, which I am very familiar with and there might be better choices in 2017 for the same or signifigantly lower price point. Just a thought.


----------



## notamethlab

spiralmind said:


> I never heard nothing as par of well burnt Yuin OK2. Outstanding soundstage, instruments separation, details and sound immersion.
> 
> Anyone with experience on OK2 can advice other phones similiares or better.
> 
> And any online site selling Yuin actually? i cannot find any, looks like Yuin company died, is true?




Take a look at the list, it should give an idea. I quickly skimmed through it and I couldn't find the OK2 but, you can compare it to another bud you have heard and then compare it to something on the list. 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wGTZnKX1aP29c1bzs5JWgqSUlPzZqV9p_cw79VfRBpQ/pub


----------



## Spiralmind

I had a pair of PK2 too. But OK2 has much more separation of instruments and you feel like they are playing around you. I heard new sounds in songs i had been listen for years i had never noticed.
But i wm looking for alternatives too which you/anyone feels go in this direction.
PS: i dont care about the lack of bass some people complain about OK series.


----------



## Raketen

silverfishla said:


> I have the TKY2 by Musicmaker and it's not very good. There's nothing I can do to the outside of it to make it sound very good to my ears. I've been tempted to try to open it up just to see if what they claim is on the inside is actually in there since it is such an underperformer (especially for the price range). Looking at it, I can't figure out how to disassemble it even if I wanted to. I can't figure out how it's put together.




Kind of agree- I don't love them but I thought they sound terrific with acoustic+vocal tracks. Using with full foams though, and I think they do benefit from a smoother or warmish source/amp that has some power in reserve. 
Haven't tried this myself yet but IIRC Clie suggested using modded foams with holes punched to line up with the holes on the earbud.


----------



## Raketen

(I give MM props for terrific cable too, nicest wearing cable on earbuds i've tried so far)

oops meant to edit last post, sorry.


----------



## rkw

swmkdr said:


> Any reviews/impressions of the 1more E1008 dual dynamic earbuds? I've seen mentions and reviews of the E0320 but no reviews for the newer pair. Anyone have these?


 
 I like the E1008 very much. Go to the top of the page and use the "Search This Thread" function under the thread title.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/newsearch/?search=e1008&resultSortingPreference=recency&byuser=&output=posts&sdate=0&newer=1&type=all&containingthread%5B0%5D=441400&advanced=1


----------



## chinmie

laughmoredaily said:


> I'm glad to hear you found what you're looking for, and for a much better price than some of those other $200 ear buds.




thanks! i'm still searching for "something" though  to me the criteria for a good sound should be non fatiguing to listen in average to a little loud volume. sound characteristics differences are okay



ira delphic said:


> That is exactly how I'd describe the Monk+.





jasru said:


> Well, no. Bass is definetly MUCH better than the Monk+, both in quality and quantity.




yup, to me the dietris is also like a really better version of monk+ with good bass. their sound character is similar



tomasz2d said:


> I only know B200 sound
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/10485#post_12883184
> but from your description B160/B320 may have similar Blox house sound as B200. In B200 the sound of musical instruments is very untrue and for me B200 was only good for electronic genres where correct reproduction is not that important. What are differences between B160 and B320 anyway?




to me the B200 sounded like listening with a mild compressor/limiter on top, it makes everything sound so "controlled" and thight. tiny details on the background also seems to pop out a little. granted though my B200 is not stock version, but a recabled one



vapman said:


> I'm awaiting @Townyj
> to post more, he's the first person here AFAIK to own both models. His b160 is in transit currently.
> 
> Glad we all know each other's earbud stashes so well




don't forget, sir golov17 also have both of them


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Anyone else notice how the 1More Piston ear bud is now $30 US on Ali? That's an $8 jump! Is it really worth it?


----------



## vapman

laughmoredaily said:


> Anyone else notice how the 1More Piston ear bud is now $30 US on Ali? That's an $8 jump! Is it really worth it?


 
 I wouldn't, personally, even at the old price. Personal tastes, though.
  
  
 The *Ucotech 905 *has earned a permanent place connected to my PS4 controller, as the mic is compatible, not huge and annoying like they are on some mic cables, cable is nice, and the alternate covers to let you use them without foams make 100% more sense for gaming and taking calls than listening to music. It is also nicer than using cheap buds on the PS4 controller as they offer far more detail and resolution than budget ones. They are comparable to cygnus on detail but aren't as musical, so again, no problem for gaming. channel separation and placement is great too.


----------



## PureSounds-cn

How about this cable ，150core/股，600core/4股，soft enough ，0.05mm/core ;


----------



## teston

puresounds-cn said:


> How about this cable ，150core/股，600core/4股，soft enough ，0.05mm/core ;


 
 Nice cables. I notice there are Ps100 64 ohm and 150 ohm available. Are they applied with these cables?


----------



## DBaldock9

laughmoredaily said:


> Anyone else notice how the 1More Piston ear bud is now $30 US on Ali? That's an $8 jump! Is it really worth it?


 
  
 The older model (EO303) is still <$17.00 (but ranges up to the mid-$20s).  I have this one, and it sounds OK, but doesn't have a lot of Bass impact.
  
 The newer model (EO320) starts at $26.00.  I haven't heard this one, but it apparently has better Bass performance.


----------



## PureSounds-cn

teston said:


> Nice cables. I notice there are Ps100 64 ohm and 150 ohm available. Are they applied with these cables?


 
 No，buddy
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





；PS100-600 and PS100-500（with this cable） will be available  soon；


----------



## DBaldock9

puresounds-cn said:


> No，buddy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I may have to check in to ordering one of those.


----------



## chaiyuta

puresounds-cn said:


> No，buddy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Why do I feel my backbone is broken now....


----------



## vapman

puresounds-cn said:


> No，buddy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Is it different than the cable on my PS100-600?


----------



## Robert Turnbull

laughmoredaily said:


> Anyone else notice how the 1More Piston ear bud is now $30 US on Ali? That's an $8 jump! Is it really worth it?




Are you talking about the EO303? I have seen the EO303 @ 19 and the EO320 @ 29ish..


----------



## PureSounds-cn

vapman said:


> Is it different than the cable on my PS100-600?



The same phone unit，tuned with the same way，only cable is different
For POP & Vocal lover，We recommend PS100-500 POP，haha


----------



## alvinlim2010

Anyone has these Sony MDR-E888? Got to say they sound awesome with the Walnut!


----------



## Pulpfiction

Wowwww blast from the past! I had those E888 when I was about, oh, 15 years younger  !? I remember them as sounding very good, but not built very sturdily.. Take the sounding good with a grain of salt though, my sources and source material has improved so much since then that I don't know how those would hold up today (compared to my current buds). Glad you're enjoying them, makes me curious... Did you buy they new somewhere, and if so, where and for how much  ??


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

dbaldock9 said:


> The older model (EO303) is still <$17.00 (but ranges up to the mid-$20s).  I have this one, and it sounds OK, but doesn't have a lot of Bass impact.
> 
> The newer model (EO320) starts at $26.00.  I haven't heard this one, but it apparently has better Bass performance.


 
 Thanks for letting me know. I'm not too impressed with the **** PT15 which has a similar body, so I think I'll skip this model, including the new upgrade.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Does anyone not have the Qian 39 yet? It is the best all-rounded of the other headphones I've received in the mail so far. It even makes bad files sound good, unlike all the others.
  
 * If you haven't bought the Qian 39 or 25, buy a pair!
  
 Other Buds I have: **** PT15, Boarseman 25, Colarad C01, Philips SHE3800, Benjie BJ-49, etc.


----------



## vapman

laughmoredaily said:


> Does anyone not have the Qian 39 yet? It is the best all-rounded of the other headphones I've received in the mail so far. It even makes bad files sound good, unlike all the others.
> 
> * If you haven't bought the Qian 39 or 25, buy a pair!
> 
> Other Buds I have: **** PT15, Boarseman 25, Colarad C01, Philips SHE3800, Benjie BJ-49, etc.


 
 Throw a nice quality 3.5mm on the qian and you'll have your mind blown.


----------



## Spiralmind

Can you give me some names of earbuds based on this characteristics/reviews: 
Sound is all-arounder, very even and balanced across the spectrum. Bass is fast and very detailed, its amount is just right. Mids are just slightly forward. Voices are nicely detailed with no touch of sibilance. Imaging is terrific: instruments has bodies and positions, soundstage is 3D and deep, the whole sound has a great integrity itself as well as a nice joint to surroundings. OK2 combines technical competence with fun and soul, providing you with accurate reproduction of the music itself and the emotions the music carries.
It has a very detailed, fast sound. Textures sound great on it.
Instrument separation and positioning, soundstage and decays are also very good.
I would say it is a very analytical bud.
Budget until around 100 Eur.


----------



## voxdub

laughmoredaily said:


> Does anyone not have the Qian 39 yet? It is the best all-rounded of the other headphones I've received in the mail so far. It even makes bad files sound good, unlike all the others.
> 
> * If you haven't bought the Qian 39 or 25, buy a pair!
> 
> Other Buds I have: **** PT15, Boarseman 25, Colarad C01, Philips SHE3800, Benjie BJ-49, etc.




Have it and like it a lot, got the Sony E808 at the same time and much prefer the 39, every budget earbudder should have a pair. One thing I love which is pretty unique is that the sound doesn't change with positioning within the ear, just slot em in and go and isolates slightly better than other buds for me so I use it a lot when outside.


----------



## rkw

laughmoredaily said:


> I'm not too impressed with the **** PT15 which has a similar body, so I think I'll skip this model


 
 That would be like lumping all earbuds with MX500 shells as being similar. There are so many variables... and the **** and 1More clearly have different bodies, even made from different material.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

vapman said:


> Throw a nice quality 3.5mm on the qian and you'll have your mind blown.


 
 Really? Maybe I'll pay someone to do that for me. Would a really good plug make the music signal that much better? I guess a re-cabling would be the best way, but a re-plugging would be almost as good?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

rkw said:


> That would be like lumping all earbuds with MX500 shells as being similar. There are so many variables... and the **** and 1More clearly have different bodies, even made from different material.


 
 Okay, you're right... should I still give the 1More Piston a chance? Can it hold its own?


----------



## DBaldock9

laughmoredaily said:


> Okay, you're right... should I still give the 1More Piston a chance? Can it hold its own?


 
 From comments made by several people, when I mentioned getting the EO303 model - I'd suggest you get the EO320 instead, even though it's $26.00.
  
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1MORE-EO320-Piston-Earphone-for-phone-with-Mic-In-Ear-Bests-Wired-Earphones-for-Android-iOS/32795180525.html


----------



## willy156

need a new pair of iems. budget around $50 and i've used in the past: vsonic vsd3s (first generation with the removable cables), alpha+delta d2, kz ates. and my favourite has to go to the vsonics vsd3s. i enjoy listening to rock, jrock, pop, hip hop. should I Get the vsonic vsd3 new? I read the vsonic vsd3p is not that great.


----------



## alvinlim2010

pulpfiction said:


> Wowwww blast from the past! I had those E888 when I was about, oh, 15 years younger  !? I remember them as sounding very good, but not built very sturdily.. Take the sounding good with a grain of salt though, my sources and source material has improved so much since then that I don't know how those would hold up today (compared to my current buds). Glad you're enjoying them, makes me curious... Did you buy they new somewhere, and if so, where and for how much  ??



I remember I gotten them a few years back after seeing the stellar reviews, and of course that funky case! Got to say they are holding up decently, although the cable isn't the best. Good sub bass and soundstage with the Walnut (believe it likes power too).

I didn't get them new, for about $20 if I recall. This is the made in Thailand version aka newer one. The made in Japan version is notoriously hard to find to my knowledge.


----------



## vapman

willy156 said:


> need a new pair of iems. budget around $50 and i've used in the past: vsonic vsd3s (first generation with the removable cables), alpha+delta d2, kz ates. and my favourite has to go to the vsonics vsd3s. i enjoy listening to rock, jrock, pop, hip hop. should I Get the vsonic vsd3 new? I read the vsonic vsd3p is not that great.


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/820747/chinese-asian-brand-info-thread-portable-headphones-and-iems


----------



## rkw

laughmoredaily said:


> rkw said:
> 
> 
> > That would be like lumping all earbuds with MX500 shells as being similar. There are so many variables... and the **** and 1More clearly have different bodies, even made from different materials.
> ...


 
  
 I'll give a vague response… I haven't heard the EO320, but personally I'd give it a chance because I feel very positive about 1MORE. I have their E1008 earbud and Triple Driver IEM and like both of them a lot, and it gives me confidence about trying out other items in their product line.


----------



## natto

willy156 said:


> need a new pair of iems. budget around $50 and i've used in the past: vsonic vsd3s (first generation with the removable cables), alpha+delta d2, kz ates. and my favourite has to go to the vsonics vsd3s. i enjoy listening to rock, jrock, pop, hip hop. should I Get the vsonic vsd3 new? I read the vsonic vsd3p is not that great.




I really interesting in vsd3p too, does anyone tried?


----------



## Spiralmind

spiralmind said:


> Can you give me some names of earbuds based on this characteristics/reviews:
> Sound is all-arounder, very even and balanced across the spectrum. Bass is fast and very detailed, its amount is just right. Mids are just slightly forward. Voices are nicely detailed with no touch of sibilance. Imaging is terrific: instruments has bodies and positions, soundstage is 3D and deep, the whole sound has a great integrity itself as well as a nice joint to surroundings. OK2 combines technical competence with fun and soul, providing you with accurate reproduction of the music itself and the emotions the music carries.
> It has a very detailed, fast sound. Textures sound great on it.
> Instrument separation and positioning, soundstage and decays are also very good.
> ...



Any opinion?


----------



## flamesofarctica

spiralmind said:


> Any opinion?




Fun AND accurate is where I'm struggling :-D For a lot of your criteria, the TY HP650, however I find the TY HP400S more fun to listen to, and still very detailed.

Asura 2 is also a good all rounder IMO.


----------



## noknok23

Seahf 650? I'm not an expert about soundstage but they are very detailed with great extension and you can have them for less than 100 with headfi discount. Neutral on the bright side, need powerful source to shine. Drawback is they are not as musical as upper priced models but depending on what you listen this may be not a problem.

Imo i let asura 2 go because i barely used them. Not enough bass for me. If you mostly care about vocals they are excellent though.


----------



## Saoshyant

natto said:


> I really interesting in vsd3p too, does anyone tried?


 
  
 I was really hoping to like this as I absolutely loved the VSD3, but honestly felt a little underwhelmed.  For the price, I prefer the MM Tomahawk.  It's been a little bit since I've listened to it, so can't give a quick rundown of the sound.


----------



## natto

saoshyant said:


> I was really hoping to like this as I absolutely loved the VSD3, but honestly felt a little underwhelmed.  For the price, I prefer the MM Tomahawk.  It's been a little bit since I've listened to it, so can't give a quick rundown of the sound.




Thank you, I have to remove from my listed. For Tomahawk, I don't like it, feel like unnatural.


----------



## Pulpfiction

Just a quick message to say that I'm loving my K's 500 . This is my only high end bud, but yeah, really love them. I only use them in the house, with either S4 (rooted with custom kernel for better audio) or on my laptop. They're driven just fine, though I think I notice a bit more ease and briskness on the laptop (especially way down low). But either combo is not at a loss for anything.. They bring lots more detail than what I had so far, and these are the first buds that truly give me this open full headphones kind of experience (whilst being much more comfortable imo). Normally I EQ quite a bit to bring (mostly sub) bass up, I like to feel a good presence there as long as it doesn't overpower the other freq's, makes the sound more alive and puts me more in the middle of it for my taste. The K's have a beautiful tuning and balance between frequencies on their own I find, extension is really good on both ends and so far I found the bass never comes across as strained or lacking in speed. Actually, all the freqs sound 'fast' / brisk, very responsive, which contributes to it not muddying details - it's very resolving and I find many more details that I lack with my other stuff (admittedly not as high end). I'm glad I cancelled my PM4 preorder and got this instead, I really prefer the sound and type of presentation earbuds can give over IEMS nowadays. On my laptop, not using any EQ, it really feels like a good room with very nice speakers are lodged into my ear (though it's a lot more comfortable than that sounds LOL ! ). I look forward owning a power source with balance 3.5 out to experience these even better in the future, hopefully. But yes, I'm very pleased - a big step up in price compared to the budget buds, but the sound is really of another level too. I also really like the cable. I had expected the opposite looking at pictures. Wearing them down and moving around you do get some microphonics, but as I listen overear and usually in the house I had no problem with this. The cable is really flexible and curls around my ear perfectly for overear listening, just to give you an idea, Monk v1 and Monk+ cable (I suppose most people know these buds and cable) are stiffer than this cable !


----------



## ctaxxxx

So I drafted my earbuds comparison list in Google Docs (because Head-Fi's list feature sucks...). Obviously I got lazy half-way through. Will update later with better descriptions. I just did all these from memory.
  
 Also, what is a good song to test imaging? Not sure how good I am in determining that.


----------



## Frederick Wang

ctaxxxx said:


> So I drafted my earbuds comparison list in Google Docs (because Head-Fi's list feature sucks...). Obviously I got lazy half-way through. Will update later with better descriptions. I just did all these from memory.
> 
> Also, what is a good song to test imaging? Not sure how good I am in determining that.



Great write-up!
I get the impression that mojito is more detailed and spacious than Campfred, is that right?


----------



## vapman

I really want to try the seahf 650. I think i might prefer it to ty 650. Maybe some seahf 650 owner wants to try ty 650?


----------



## noknok23

I tried to do bass eq on it. They didn't handle it. Like everything went lower except the bass and weird.
But according to what i know from your taste and ty 650. You'll probably prefer them yes


----------



## ClieOS

Big thanks to @rudi0504 and @Cyperus on Sunday at CanJam Singapore I got to listen to QFred, CampFred (both balanced and single ended), Blue Dart and the CampFred 2. Gonna say I am mighty impressed. While it is only a brief listening, it is easy to tell they are Contender / Champion material.
  
 p/s: Tried @rudi0504 Zen 2 Black with VE's full balanced portable amp as well, and it is also an excellent setup abide it is more transportable than portable


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

clieos said:


> Big thanks to @rudi0504
> and @Cyperus
> on Sunday at CanJam Singapore I got to listen to QFred, CampFred (both balanced and single ended), Blue Dart and the CampFred 2. Gonna say I am mighty impressed. While it is only a brief listening, it is easy to tell they are Contender / Champion material.
> 
> ...




Blue Dart impression?


----------



## fairx

clieos said:


> Big thanks to @rudi0504
> and @Cyperus
> on Sunday at CanJam Singapore I got to listen to QFred, CampFred (both balanced and single ended), Blue Dart and the CampFred 2. Gonna say I am mighty impressed. While it is only a brief listening, it is easy to tell they are Contender / Champion material.
> 
> ...


wow I wish I was there.


----------



## noknok23

There is a campfred 2?


----------



## ballog

clieos said:


> Big thanks to @rudi0504 and @Cyperus on Sunday at CanJam Singapore I got to listen to QFred, CampFred (both balanced and single ended), Blue Dart and the CampFred 2. Gonna say I am mighty impressed. While it is only a brief listening, it is easy to tell they are Contender / Champion material.
> 
> p/s: Tried @rudi0504 Zen 2 Black with VE's full balanced portable amp as well, and it is also an excellent setup abide it is more transportable than portable


 
@ClieOS do you have any info about the SeaHF 650 ohms (what we do have now is really sparse)?


----------



## luedriver

@vapman have you tried recabling any she3800 yet? 
  
 I find it kinda strange how general opinion that the stock she3800 is better stock h180, yet the h180 get modded into TOL earbuds...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

luedriver said:


> @vapman have you tried recabling any she3800 yet?
> 
> I find it kinda strange how general opinion that the stock she3800 is better stock h180, yet the h180 get modded into TOTL earbuds...


 
 I find there are a few flaws with the 3800 and no wonder... it's almost the price of free. I'll let you know what I think of the H180's soon.


----------



## Cyperus

clieos said:


> Big thanks to @rudi0504
> and @Cyperus
> on Sunday at CanJam Singapore I got to listen to QFred, CampFred (both balanced and single ended), Blue Dart and the CampFred 2. Gonna say I am mighty impressed. While it is only a brief listening, it is easy to tell they are Contender / Champion material.
> 
> ...



@ClieOS It is my pleasure to be able to meet you in person. An interesting chat with you, I would say that you are one of the most informative when it come to earbuds. Thanks for your time to listen to my collection.


----------



## ClieOS

midnightempest said:


> Blue Dart impression?


 
  
 It was a very short listening session with quite a few earbuds in a fairly noisy environment, so I'll prefer not to post any impression that isn't 100% sure.
  


ballog said:


> @ClieOS do you have any info about the SeaHF 650 ohms (what we do have now is really sparse)?


 
  
 Unless we are talking about the Hi-Z 650ohm, I don't really know any other 650ohm earbuds from SeaHF / Bug Guy.


----------



## noknok23

clieos said:


> Unless we are talking about the Hi-Z 650ohm, I don't really know any other 650ohm earbuds from SeaHF / Bug Guy.


 
  
SeaHF 650 can be find here afaik
  
 ----------------------
  
 anyone tried flagship earbuds from BHObuds?  "Karasutengu"


----------



## ballog

clieos said:


> It was a very short listening session with quite a few earbuds in a fairly noisy environment, so I'll prefer not to post any impression that isn't 100% sure.
> 
> 
> Unless we are talking about the Hi-Z 650ohm, I don't really know any other 650ohm earbuds from SeaHF / Bug Guy.



@ClieOS here's a picture
Could you somehow confirm if its the same sound signature as TY Hi-Z 650. From reviews it seems that the either the TY 650 or 450 would suit me. It might seem silly but its the red color of both TY which is putting me off. I like the look of the Seahf and am really hoping its similar to the TY.


----------



## noknok23

I read that TY650 has an extremely smooth and relaxing sound signature.
  
 SeaHF 650 are the most "aggressive" earbud I have by a fair margin compare to edimun v3, puresounds 600, Cypherus Campfred.
 By that I mean details are crisp if not harsh sometimes.


----------



## Ira Delphic

noknok23 said:


> I read that TY650 has an extremely smooth and relaxing sound signature.
> 
> SeaHF 650 are the most "aggressive" earbud I have by a fair margin compare to edimun v3, puresounds 600, Cypherus Campfred.
> By that I mean details are crisp if not harsh sometimes.


 
  
 I can confirm that the TY650 is laid back. It has a neutral sound, that I find very pleasing for extended listening.


----------



## vapman

I also did not know there is a campfred 2. 

I've heard puresounds 600 and campfred are very close in sound sig?


----------



## CharlesRievone

ira delphic said:


> I can confirm that the TY650 is laid back. It has a neutral sound, that I find very pleasing for extended listening.


 
 Can confirm this as well. It even "tones down" death metal songs that I listen to, without compromising the aggressive nature of metal. Definitely great for long sessions.


----------



## SuperLuigi

I have a small collection of Earbud's so far.  I have the **** PT15, qian39 and monk+.  I like them all for different reasons but probably use the ****  PT15 the most, followed by the monk +.  The qian 39 sound good, but i found the earbud a little too small for me.
  
 I haven't been keeping up with the latest chatter but is there something I should definitely try?  I enjoy the PT15 but the bass issues are real.  Any recomendations?  I'd love to find some earbuds with a mic so I could use it for video games (XboxOne)


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Penon Audio is the best at shipping to Canada. If you choose Hong Kong Post Air Mail, I received my ear buds in about 14 days after they left the country. That's pretty incredible.


----------



## ctaxxxx

frederick wang said:


> Great write-up!
> I get the impression that mojito is more detailed and spacious than Campfred, is that right?


 

 Sorry for the late reply. I would say yes, but the Mojito is more of a wide soundstage that is lacking in depth compared to CampFred.
  
 This is still from memory. I'll clean up the list this weekend when I actually listen to these side by side.


----------



## silverfishla

So let me just put the "rubber ring" industry out of business here.  $3 dollars for a pair of rubber rings by themselves...uh no.  Here is a way to get the same thing (if you use them underneath a foam).  You can build diameter of the outside circumference of you buds to fit your ears to get a better fit on smaller buds or to eek out more bass from your buds.  Silicon plumber's tape.  $5 a roll for a hundred bud rings.  Worked wonders on my Mojito and really helped out with getting a good fit and improved bass (because of good fit) with the **** PT15.
 The Silicon roll is good because there is no adhesive whatsoever, is tacky by just being silicone, sticks to itself so you can wrap it tight, and is super easy to use and you can cut them to whatever width or size length you need.  Give it a try, you might like it.  You might even use a little on every bud you own.  We like to experiment here, and it's a great way to experiment with fit issues for some.


----------



## DBaldock9

superluigi said:


> I have a small collection of Earbud's so far.  I have the **** PT15, qian39 and monk+.  I like them all for different reasons but probably use the ****  PT15 the most, followed by the monk +.  The qian 39 sound good, but i found the earbud a little too small for me.
> 
> I haven't been keeping up with the latest chatter but is there something I should definitely try?  I enjoy the PT15 but the bass issues are real.  Any recomendations?  I'd love to find some earbuds with a mic so I could use it for video games (XboxOne)


 

 I haven't ordered these [ https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-Arrival-32ohm-DIY-Earphone-Earbud-DJ-HiFi-Earphone-as-monks-earphone-MX500-fone-de-ouvido/1727211_32711687328.html ] yet, but several people here on Head-Fi, and on @BloodyPenguin's "Earbuds Anonymous" Facebook group, have tried them, and liked the sound.  They are available with a Mic, and cost less than $7.00.
  
 Take Care,
 David Baldock


----------



## vapman

Lee really is the man. He hooked me up with a replacement asura 2.0

I know they have like no bass without eq but i can't stress enough how far these can be pushed bass wise with amp and eq. It took me so long before i realized the full genius of these. EQ heads and amp heads really overlook this one too easily.


----------



## vapman

*PT15 mod teaser*

There is a lot of glue inside and it smells horrible when it gets liquefied. Yuck!!! 





Edit.... Mod completed with edifier shells!


sound sig is still like pt15 but way more open, treble is still borderline piercing though. bass gets kinda farty with extreme eq and bass boost on the amp, haha. good with one or the other though.

*You saw the PT15 mod here first folks!!*


----------



## Sound Eq

got my first earbud memt x3 mini and it totally sucks, no bass what so ever, distorts like crazy
  
 very bad start


----------



## vapman

Sorry to hear that @Sound Eq , nobody has endorsed that model here though! we could have told you it was meh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Hope you try out some qian39 or something like that for a bassy sound.


----------



## Sound Eq

vapman said:


> Sorry to hear that @Sound Eq , nobody has endorsed that model here though! we could have told you it was meh
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 thanks man
  
 i will wait for monk plus to arrive as i see that many like it so at least i can get some perspective, and if i like it then i will go full scale to the best earbud out there
  
 update: based on your rec I just ordered the qian39 
  
 thanks man


----------



## DBaldock9

Before I ordered the K's 500, it was pointed out to me that they have a 2.5mm TRRS model, so I didn't have to buy & modify the 3.5mm TRS version.
  
 Now, I'm wondering whether anyone has seen a 2.5mm TRRS version of the TY Hi-Z HP650?  If so, can you provide a link to it?
  
  
 Thanks,
 David Baldock


----------



## SuperLuigi

dbaldock9 said:


> I haven't ordered these [ https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-Arrival-32ohm-DIY-Earphone-Earbud-DJ-HiFi-Earphone-as-monks-earphone-MX500-fone-de-ouvido/1727211_32711687328.html ] yet, but several people here on Head-Fi, and on @BloodyPenguin's "Earbuds Anonymous" Facebook group, have tried them, and liked the sound.  They are available with a Mic, and cost less than $7.00.
> 
> Take Care,
> David Baldock


 
 Thanks for the suggestion!  I'll start my research there   
  
 I really think if the PT15's had more bass I wouldn't be on the hunt for more earbuds.


----------



## Pulpfiction

I'd recommend HE150 for better quality bassy earbuds for (still, at 14$) very little money! I have Qian39 too and they're nice, but knowing what I know now I would have probably skipped them. I have quite a few earbuds waiting for all my better ones to break now before I'll ever touch them again, way way back in the drawer style.. I found the Qian39's to have good quantity but bad quality bass, not leaving an impactful impression but instead feeling loose and flabby. It's a very pleasant earbud in a way, laid back, easy to listen to comfortable sound with old recordings. However, recordings I knew well I noticed that it's not very detailed. Almost no depth to the soundstage to my ear, a very '2D' sound. I have some buds to compare between (Monk v1, Monk+, TY HP32 v1, Qian39, HE150 & K's 500 ) but for 14$ the HE150 is a steal, really where it's at in terms of bang for buck I think.. It also has a sturdy L-shaped connector. Usually I find with cheaper buds that the connectors are weak points for daily wear and tear, especially straight jacks. Riding along in pockets is much easier on L-jacks, from my experience at least. Really full bass that goes down low and still has some punch and growl to it, not the tightest but definitely not flabby. It can also be pushed *way* harder than al previously mentioned buds apart from K's 500. Soundstage is really good on them too..


----------



## Fabi

@Danneq
 I was wondering how thick, stiff, heavy and the feel in touch is he cable of your Diomnes Lv2.


----------



## barbazz

superluigi said:


> Thanks for the suggestion!  I'll start my research there
> 
> I really think if the PT15's had more bass I wouldn't be on the hunt for more earbuds.


 
  
 Interesting you mention PT15. I consider them the ugly duck of my earbuds collection. Although they are far from being ugly (probably the best looking ones I have) the lack of bass and sometimes piercing treble keeps them in the drawer for most of the time. Today I was listening Rome's Flowers from Exile (one of my all time favourite albums) with my SHE3800 but found the sound lacking something. Soundstage, clarity, definition, not sure what. So I started to swap earbuds. Monk+ brought the soundstage, Seahf 32 some more punchiness, K25S were surprisingly good overall, but the PT15 gave me what I was looking for.  A superb detail of the acoustic guitar strings and a great spacial perception of all instruments. Since the bass was not really relevant in this case it was a great experience. They will get off the drawer more times in the future for sure


----------



## vapman

barbazz said:


> Interesting you mention PT15. I consider them the ugly duck of my earbuds collection. Although they are far from being ugly (probably the best looking ones I have) the lack of bass and sometimes piercing treble keeps them in the drawer for most of the time. Today I was listening Rome's Flowers from Exile (one of my all time favourite albums) with my SHE3800 but found the sound lacking something. Soundstage, clarity, definition, not sure what. So I started to swap earbuds. Monk+ brought the soundstage, Seahf 32 some more punchiness, K25S were surprisingly good overall, but the PT15 gave me what I was looking for.  A superb detail of the acoustic guitar strings and a great spacial perception of all instruments. Since the bass was not really relevant in this case it was a great experience. They will get off the drawer more times in the future for sure


 
 I can't express how much better the PT15 sound gets when you put them in a properly vented shell. MX500 or Edifier style shells will be just awesome with it.


----------



## DBaldock9

vapman said:


> I can't express how much better the PT15 sound gets when you put them in a properly vented shell. MX500 or Edifier style shells will be just awesome with it.


 

 I know that the four holes, in the back of the stock PT15 housing, are vents - because the low bass disappears when they're covered with a fingertip.
  
 What about opening up some of the space between those holes?  Do you think that would provide a bass improvement?


----------



## vapman

dbaldock9 said:


> I know that the four holes, in the back of the stock PT15 housing, are vents - because the low bass disappears when they're covered with a fingertip.
> 
> What about opening up some of the space between those holes?  Do you think that would provide a bass improvement?


 
 Trying to make pt15 basshead bassy is a lost cause, let me make that pretty clear... even with no EQ, it gets all farty and uncontrolled when simply turning on an amp's bass boost switch. You can make the bass better but it'll never be slammin or even close.
  
 I think the shape of the shell is actually the weakness. IT has vents, but not in very optimal places IMO. for example, putting the driver in a mx500 or edifier style shell makes the overall sound clearer and bass bigger, and the sound opens up in a way that makes the sound of it in the stock shell really nasty and congested in comparison!
  
 To open it up i just used a heat gun and waited to smell the glue liquid. Kinda gross but they really load those things up with glue. Once you have it melted enough, the front piece comes off very easily.
  
 Also note the cables in the stock shells are so thin it's offensive, put some nice fat copper wires on that driver. Shame it can't take a hint of bass boost though.


----------



## weedophile

Thanks silverfishla! Ur hack from the last time was awesome though abit too big for comfort. This looks perfect though and IIRC u also from SG? If so can we get it easily at homefix or something?


----------



## ballog

pulpfiction said:


> I'd recommend HE150 for better quality bassy earbuds for (still, at 14$) very little money! I have Qian39 too and they're nice, but knowing what I know now I would have probably skipped them. I have quite a few earbuds waiting for all my better ones to break now before I'll ever touch them again, way way back in the drawer style.. I found the Qian39's to have good quantity but bad quality bass, not leaving an impactful impression but instead feeling loose and flabby. It's a very pleasant earbud in a way, laid back, easy to listen to comfortable sound with old recordings. However, recordings I knew well I noticed that it's not very detailed. Almost no depth to the soundstage to my ear, a very '2D' sound. I have some buds to compare between (Monk v1, Monk+, TY HP32 v1, Qian39, HE150 & K's 500 ) but for 14$ the HE150 is a steal, really where it's at in terms of bang for buck I think.. It also has a sturdy L-shaped connector. Usually I find with cheaper buds that the connectors are weak points for daily wear and tear, especially straight jacks. Riding along in pockets is much easier on L-jacks, from my experience at least. Really full bass that goes down low and still has some punch and growl to it, not the tightest but definitely not flabby. It can also be pushed *way* harder than al previously mentioned buds apart from K's 500. Soundstage is really good on them too..


 
 Descriptions of the HE150 gives an impression that its another version of Bug Guy's 150Ohm driver like Seahf 150 (which I have) and TY Hi-Z 150. Maybe someone can confirm. Anyway the HE150 seems like a great bargain (BTW Seahf 150 is also on sale at $14 for the moment).


----------



## ClieOS

ballog said:


> @ClieOS here's a picture
> Could you somehow confirm if its the same sound signature as TY Hi-Z 650. From reviews it seems that the either the TY 650 or 450 would suit me. It might seem silly but its the red color of both TY which is putting me off. I like the look of the Seahf and am really hoping its similar to the TY.


 
  
 Haven't heard it and thus I can't confirm anything about it.


----------



## ballog

clieos said:


> Haven't heard it and thus I can't confirm anything about it.


 
 Its weird how last year Seahf earbuds were all the rage and how now their is no love. Seems to me like Seahf has been almost completely superceded by TY Hi-Z. I know its not worth to walk this path again but its still not clear to me what's the connection between Seahf & TY (if any) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## barbazz

ballog said:


> Its weird how last year Seahf earbuds were
> Its weird how last year Seahf earbuds were all the rage and how now their is no love. Seems to me like Seahf has been almost completely superceded by TY Hi-Z. I know its not worth to walk this path again but its still not clear to me what's the connection between Seahf & TY (if any)
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Don't have a clue too, but mine TY 32 and Seahf 32 sound almost exactly the same...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

ballog said:


> Descriptions of the HE150 gives an impression that its another version of Bug Guy's 150Ohm driver like Seahf 150 (which I have) and TY Hi-Z 150. Maybe someone can confirm. Anyway the HE150 seems like a great bargain (BTW Seahf 150 is also on sale at $14 for the moment).


 
 I just got the HE150 in the mail today. It seems like a fantastic bargain! I wish I didn't buy my **** PT15's and K 64's right now. Those headphones are useless to me (first impressions, especially for the ****).


----------



## neilmanalo

hey guys i just purchased the rose masya and burned it in for around 50 hours now, so far it sounds amazing and its really good. If only I knew earbuds was better suited to my preference than IEM's then I would've gone the earbud route wayy wayyy before. It rivals even the TOTL IEM's when it comes to overall sound resolution and soundstage at just 1/10 of their prices.
  
  
 The Rose Masya is really good, but for a classical/orchestra/intrumental listener like me, would the Rose Mojito would be a decent upgrade over it??
 Or are there any other high end earbuds that would beat it. I'm a treble head and soundstage addict. I like bass but I won't care as long as it has good soundstage and treble.
  
 Price isn't an issue, I purchased lots of 800$ + IEM's and I would never look back again after hearing how amazing earbuds are.


----------



## kartik7405

neilmanalo said:


> The Rose Masya is really good, but for a classical/orchestra/intrumental listener like me, would the Rose Mojito would be a decent upgrade over it??


 
 Yea Mojito great for instrumental music;get the blue version of mojito which is the new upgraded one.Compare to mayasa it is definitely a huge upgrade.
 For all rounder you can get ve zen black 2.


----------



## neilmanalo

kartik7405 said:


> Yea Mojito great for instrumental music;get the blue version of mojito which is the new upgraded one.Compare to mayasa it is definitely a huge upgrade.
> For all rounder you can get ve zen black 2.


 
 why whats the problem with the clear ones? I like the looks of the clear ones and its also cheaper than the blue ones. Are there some QC issues with it?


----------



## kartik7405

neilmanalo said:


> why whats the problem with the clear ones? I like the looks of the clear ones and its also cheaper than the blue ones. Are there some QC issues with it?


 
 Well the clear one have recessed mids.Which seems solved in new blue one as per @rudi0504


----------



## Danneq

fabi said:


> @Danneq
> I was wondering how thick, stiff, heavy and the feel in touch is he cable of your Diomnes Lv2.


 


 The cable is the tickest one I've ever seen on a pair of earbuds. It is however not as stiff as the cardas cable on CAX Black. It feels a bit soft to the touch but there is some sort of plastic covering the wires.
 I would say it looks very similar to this one...


----------



## ATi7500

I have just received the TY Hi-Z 32: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TY-Hi-Z-HiFi-Super-Bass-Earphone-Sports-Headsets-Luxury-Clear-Voice-3-5mm-Wired-In/32776941043.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.Hy8jiN
  
 Have been using the Monk+ in the last weeks, the first thing that I noticed with the TY is the much higher sensitivity, it makes the music sound "rougher" but damn that energy. Bass is present but well controlled. They sound to me as a refined Qian39. No burn it yet though.


----------



## flamesofarctica

The Yinman 150 have arrived, and I'm really impressed. Having quite disliked the Yinman 64, I didn't have great expectations.

The 150's are fairly warm sounding, and quite different to my usual preferred sound signature, but with rock and metal music the percussion sounds fantastic, definitely its major strength in my opinion. Rock/metal guitars and bass sound great as well, listening to Iron Maiden's Killers album on these sounds really impressive.

Vocals sound great, albeit they take a backseat compared to some of my earbuds. No harsh peaks anywhere, which suits me down to the ground, but those looking primarily for a bright treble would be disappointed I'd think. 

The fit is perfect as well, which surprised me, I didn't realise they'd be quite so light and comfortable. 

Gosh they're ugly though :-D These on my Walnut, the setup looks so low-tech.. but sounds so good!


----------



## barbazz

laughmoredaily said:


> I just got the HE150 in the mail today. It seems like a fantastic bargain! I wish I didn't buy my **** PT15's and K 64's right now. Those headphones are useless to me (first impressions, especially for the ****).


 
  
 Not sure what kind of music you're into, but give PT15 a try with acoustic guitar or maybe piano. Maybe you find them surprisingly good. I know I did.


----------



## DevilofLife

I just got the Rose Masya Carbon Edition how do I tell which is the Right and Left side of the earbud cause the earbud doesn't have the L and R logo on it.
 Anyone know how to determine which side is which?


----------



## weedophile

@DevilofLife u can try this


----------



## golov17

deviloflife said:


> I just got the Rose Masya Carbon Edition how do I tell which is the Right and Left side of the earbud cause the earbud doesn't have the L and R logo on it.
> Anyone know how to determine which side is which?


 Marking only on connectors of cables


----------



## Tomasz2D

neilmanalo said:


> hey guys i just purchased the rose masya and burned it in for around 50 hours now, so far it sounds amazing and its really good. If only I knew earbuds was better suited to my preference than IEM's then I would've gone the earbud route wayy wayyy before. It rivals even the TOTL IEM's when it comes to overall sound resolution and soundstage at just 1/10 of their prices.
> 
> 
> The Rose Masya is really good, but for a classical/orchestra/intrumental listener like me, would the Rose Mojito would be a decent upgrade over it??
> ...


 
 Can't really tell you which earbud can beat Masya but I think you could have a lot of fun just trying these earbuds:
  
 Astrotec Lyra6
 AuGlamour RX-1
 Blue Ever Blue 328R
 HifiMan ES100
 Moondrop VX Pro
 Red De'mun
 **** PT15
 Sennheiser MX 985
 Toneking Ting
 Toneking TKY2


----------



## DevilofLife

golov17 said:


> Marking only on connectors of cables


 

 Yes only the cable has marking but earbud doesn't.
  
 So does it mean that the earbuds can be either left or right base on the cable connector?


----------



## golov17

deviloflife said:


> Yes only the cable has marking but earbud doesn't.
> 
> So does it mean that the earbuds can be either left or right base on the cable connector?


 logo to face?


----------



## neilmanalo

tomasz2d said:


> Can't really tell you which earbud can beat Masya but I think you could have a lot of fun just trying these earbuds:
> 
> Astrotec Lyra6
> AuGlamour RX-1
> ...


 
 thanks! I have a PT15 on the way and I'm pondering whether to buy the Tomohawk Z or Ting, because they say they're almost the same with the tomahawks having better bass. I really like the design of the MX985 but can't seem to find any sellers anymore. There is one selling here for 700$ though lol


----------



## Danneq

neilmanalo said:


> thanks! I have a PT15 on the way and I'm pondering whether to buy the Tomohawk Z or Ting, because they say they're almost the same with the tomahawks having better bass. I really like the design of the MX985 but can't seem to find any sellers anymore. There is one selling here for 700$ though lol


 

 $700!?!? That's insane! I sold my pair of MX985 for around $150 with shipping included a few months ago. No use to bother if you have to pay over $200 including shipping. And I really like the sound of MX980/985.

 I find Tomahawk to be great. It has got an overall balanced sound with slightly boosted highs. Still I do not find them overly bright even if I am quite sensitive to that. Ting has got a more distanced sound. It sounds like you are further away from the music than with Tomahawk. Ting sounds more refined while Tomahawk sounds more "in your face".

 If you are a treble head you could always ask Indonesian ABnormal Labs if there is a way to get a pair of Diomnes Lv2. It is based on the original Monk. If you find a pair of original Monk you can always send it to them and have them mod it. I paid $180 for my pair of Diomnes Lv2 and it was totally worth it. They are far from Rose Mojito or **** PT15 when it comes to bright treble, but the treble is still definitely in focus and very detailed. To my ears Diomnes Lv2 easily beats other TOTL earbuds such as MX980/985, Mojito or K's 500 ohm. I do prefer the Cypherus earbuds to Diomnes, but that's because they have a sound signature I prefer (more laid back and neutral without being "flat sounding").


----------



## Tomasz2D

neilmanalo said:


> thanks! I have a PT15 on the way and I'm pondering whether to buy the Tomohawk Z or Ting, because they say they're almost the same with the tomahawks having better bass. I really like the design of the MX985 but can't seem to find any sellers anymore. There is one selling here for 700$ though lol


 
 Tomahawk and Ting share some similarities but still they sound very different. Personally I prefer Ting but Tomahawk became sort of classic earbud so you can try it as well. I got my MX 985 from Korea (Gmarket) - where you could find the last worldwide NOS but I have just checked there and I'm afraid these are sold out already.


----------



## Saoshyant

neilmanalo said:


> thanks! I have a PT15 on the way and I'm pondering whether to buy the Tomohawk Z or Ting, because they say they're almost the same with the tomahawks having better bass. I really like the design of the MX985 but can't seem to find any sellers anymore. There is one selling here for 700$ though lol




If you don't mind me asking where are you located? I'm debating selling my MX985 but haven't decided yet.


----------



## ClieOS

ballog said:


> Its weird how last year Seahf earbuds were all the rage and how now their is no love. Seems to me like Seahf has been almost completely superceded by TY Hi-Z. I know its not worth to walk this path again *but its still not clear to me what's the connection between Seahf & TY (if any)*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 SeaHF = Bug Guys = Hi-Z's OEM.
  
 TY / Hi-Z get their earbuds from Bug Guys, and Bug Guys tunes his earbuds to fit TY / Hi-Z's need. SeaHF is just the brand name Bug Guys used.


----------



## one1speed

Question, has anyone been able to compare the CampFred to the Shozy BK? Curious about the difference in the tuning between the two. Thx!


----------



## fade2blak

one1speed said:


> Question, has anyone been able to compare the CampFred to the Shozy BK? Curious about the difference in the tuning between the two. Thx!


 
  
 Also, I don't see Shozy BK listed in their website..? Any idea why?


----------



## DevilofLife

golov17 said:


> logo to face?


 
  
 What do you mean?


----------



## chinmie

danneq said:


> If you are a treble head you could always ask Indonesian ABnormal Labs if there is a way to get a pair of Diomnes Lv2. It is based on the original Monk. If you find a pair of original Monk you can always send it to them and have them mod it. I paid $180 for my pair of Diomnes Lv2 and it was totally worth it. They are far from Rose Mojito or **** PT15 when it comes to bright treble, but the treble is still definitely in focus and very detailed. To my ears Diomnes Lv2 easily beats other TOTL earbuds such as MX980/985, Mojito or K's 500 ohm. I do prefer the Cypherus earbuds to Diomnes, but that's because they have a sound signature I prefer (more laid back and neutral without being "flat sounding").




to my ears my diomnes is quite big v shaped sound..even more so than the edimun rho. i am using it with full foams though, and using the edimun with thin VE's


----------



## tinkertailor

Question: What are your thoughts on 'ohm-series" earbuds?
  
 So its pretty interesting that there are all these sellers that have lines of earbuds with no distinction other than "ohm" levels. I am talking about brands like: Ty Hi-Z, K's Earphone, Seahf, Faaeal, Yinman, and I'm sure there are others that do it or something similar (the ve line are kind of divided by different ohm levels). Its an interesting phenomenon, and niovel to me (does it maybe come from iem's or is it qunique to earbuds?). 
  
 But after talking to another user here there is some confusion. Do each of these lines maintain quality throughout the different models? Is K's earphone, for example, all tuned the same, are Faaeal? Why are the lower bud ohms generally cheaper and less well regarded/rated/coveted (all the more puzzling since according to major manufacturers the impedence , or ohm-level, is not the deciding factor in quality). 
  
 I noticed the TY line is quite different at least in the difference between the 32 and 150. They share almost no similarities other than the mx500 housing, the sound sigs are night and day different). 
  
 It does make it difficult to shop for buds in the same line, for instance I was touring FAAEAL 32 and someone said they would compare their impressions with FAAEAL 64, however, I'm not sure that would work after my experiences with the ty line being so different, even in the general sound.
  
 If you have any answers,  questions, concerns, insights over this phenomena it would be interesting to hear as it would assist others in their future purchases.


----------



## tinkertailor

clieos said:


> SeaHF = Bug Guys = Hi-Z's OEM.
> 
> TY / Hi-Z get their earbuds from Bug Guys, and Bug Guys tunes his earbuds to fit TY / Hi-Z's need. SeaHF is just the brand name Bug Guys used.


 
 So Seahf is the exact same drivers but tuned differently? (eg seahf 150 = hp 150?)


----------



## golov17

deviloflife said:


> What do you mean?


----------



## Danneq

chinmie said:


> to my ears my diomnes is quite big v shaped sound..even more so than the edimun rho. i am using it with full foams though, and using the edimun with thin VE's




Which version have you got? The guys at ABnormal told me that Lv2 single ended version is the brightest of the 3 Diomnes versions. It's not bright in the same way as PT15 or Mojito, but treble is quite sparkly and extended. It is close to MX985 but a big improvement in my mind (and I think that Red Demun isn't quite as good as MX985, but close).


----------



## chinmie

danneq said:


> Which version have you got? The guys at ABnormal told me that Lv2 single ended version is the brightest of the 3 Diomnes versions. It's not bright in the same way as PT15 or Mojito, but treble is quite sparkly and extended. It is close to MX985 but a big improvement in my mind (and I think that Red Demun isn't quite as good as MX985, but close).




mine is the standard version


----------



## ATi7500

ati7500 said:


> I have just received the TY Hi-Z 32: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TY-Hi-Z-HiFi-Super-Bass-Earphone-Sports-Headsets-Luxury-Clear-Voice-3-5mm-Wired-In/32776941043.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.Hy8jiN
> 
> Have been using the Monk+ in the last weeks, the first thing that I noticed with the TY is the much higher sensitivity, it makes the music sound "rougher" but damn that energy. Bass is present but well controlled. They sound to me as a refined Qian39. No burn it yet though.


 
 Few hours later, these TY Hi-Z 32 are really, REALLY good for EDM and Trap music. They are *just* below my "harshness" limit though. I have read that 32s have even more extension on both sides of the spectrum, are they even harsher, or are they bringing the mids up a notch aswell?


----------



## DevilofLife

golov17 said:


>




So u mean like this



and it doesn't matter which earbud is L or R since the earbud doesn't have L and R logo. 

Only that the cable L and R facing the Rose logo matter like the one on the pic?


----------



## To.M

Do the test:

http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_stereo.php


----------



## vapman

neilmanalo said:


> hey guys i just purchased the rose masya and burned it in for around 50 hours now, so far it sounds amazing and its really good. If only I knew earbuds was better suited to my preference than IEM's then I would've gone the earbud route wayy wayyy before. It rivals even the TOTL IEM's when it comes to overall sound resolution and soundstage at just 1/10 of their prices.
> 
> 
> The Rose Masya is really good, but for a classical/orchestra/intrumental listener like me, would the Rose Mojito would be a decent upgrade over it??
> ...




Sub $10 earbuds kept me from buying a $1700 CIEM when i realized how much earbuds were capable of.


----------



## ClieOS

tinkertailor said:


> So Seahf is the exact same drivers but tuned differently? (eg seahf 150 = hp 150?)


 
  
 Well, if two drivers are tuned differently, then technically they are not exactly the same anymore. Besides, having the same impedance doesn't really tell us anything about the similarity of the drivers inside.


----------



## Fabi

For those interested, my impressions on Crow Audio the Raven 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 https://www.facebook.com/groups/EarbudsAnonymous/permalink/1817605151834344/


----------



## vapman

My PT15 mod is quickly becoming really excellent to me! the bass was farty at first but now after some more burn in , it seems to do bass (including bass boost) quite nicely! It is not bassy by any means yet but it is at least doing bass better than it was. The treble is not as piercing either, or maybe I got used to it.
  
  
 ... to be clear bass impact still sucks, at least its not farty anymore.


----------



## silverfishla

@vapman *controversial topic* Have you ever tried that iPhone App called Cardas Clarifier? I'm not going to go into the specifics of how it works, but it's a tone that you play with your earphones and it's supposed to clear them up (I know that was so unscientific!). I feel it works to open up the soundstage and bring some clarity especially in the bass section. If you try it, let me know what you think because I swear it works, but others think it's complete hooey.


----------



## flamesofarctica

@vapman, I seem to remember quite some months ago, you giving positive comments around one of the wooden Yinman earbuds, can't remember if it was the 150 or 500. If the 500, is that still a good buy, I know you're happy to revise your opinions with time? Tempted after really liking the 150, but haven't heard much. @ClieOS has a pic of the 500 but not sure which category, as I can't spot on the list.


----------



## vapman

silverfishla said:


> @vapman *controversial topic* Have you ever tried that iPhone App called Cardas Clarifier? I'm not going to go into the specifics of how it works, but it's a tone that you play with your earphones and it's supposed to clear them up (I know that was so unscientific!). I feel it works to open up the soundstage and bring some clarity especially in the bass section. If you try it, let me know what you think because I swear it works, but others think it's complete hooey.


 
 Funny you bring this up.
  
 There is a lot of snake oil in Cardas' description of how the Clarifier works. You can't make a fluctuating magnetic field from a sound signal. That's ridiculous. BUT, it is a very efficient frequency sweep which does have an effect of "waking up" all of the driver by hitting every frequency it can possibly reproduce. 
  
 You can make the sweep yourself in Audacity (free software) for free. I tried it a few days ago and found it at least did the same thing as the  app...
  


flamesofarctica said:


> @vapman, I seem to remember quite some months ago, you giving positive comments around one of the wooden Yinman earbuds, can't remember if it was the 150 or 500. If the 500, is that still a good buy, I know you're happy to revise your opinions with time? Tempted after really liking the 150, but haven't heard much. @ClieOS has a pic of the 500 but not sure which category, as I can't spot on the list.


  
  
 Still a big fan of the 150! much prefer it to she3800 which i never really use ever.


----------



## silverfishla

vapman said:


> Funny you bring this up.
> 
> There is a lot of snake oil in Cardas' description of how the Clarifier works. You can't make a fluctuating magnetic field from a sound signal. That's ridiculous. BUT, it is a very efficient frequency sweep which does have an effect of "waking up" all of the driver by hitting every frequency it can possibly reproduce.
> 
> You can make the sweep yourself in Audacity (free software) for free. I tried it a few days ago and found it at least did the same thing as the  app...


 

 thanks for responding and thanks for at least saying something about it.  I've always been ignored when I mention this thing! Ha ha.


----------



## mochill

I use the clarifer app everyday and I does help clear things up . I'm using the Android version.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Got the Ostry KC08 today. Initial impressions were good. Slick box and earbud. Sound-wise, these have more sub-bass rumble in exchange for less mid-bass (opposite of the Cadenza). Bass sounds more flabby than tight though. However, they have an even sharper upper mid spike! Was really grating on some songs. The X5iii was able to tame the Cadenza's, but not these. 

I played around with the EQ (which is much easier than Onkyo's...) and ended up preferring the Cadenza's when I boosted sub-bass to the max. They have a huge mid-bass un-EQ'ed, so the hit is harder. The Ostry just rumbled even more, but when I boosted mid-bass, it just wasn't nearly as satisfying. You need a little bit of both to get a satisfying bass impact imo. 

Overall, a little disappointed, but made me more impressed with the Heavenly Sounds brand, especially considering I did a blind purchase. Maybe the Ostry need burn in. These were straight from the box.


----------



## silverfishla

Thank you @mochill, now I really don't feel crazy now that there is another! 




mochill said:


> I use the clarifer app everyday and I does help clear things up . I'm using the Android version.


----------



## mochill

silverfishla said:


> Thank you @mochill, now I really don't feel crazy now that there is another!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your welcome bro


----------



## golov17

deviloflife said:


> So u mean like this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 yep


----------



## kurtextrem

vapman said:


> Funny you bring this up.
> 
> There is a lot of snake oil in Cardas' description of how the Clarifier works. You can't make a fluctuating magnetic field from a sound signal. That's ridiculous. BUT, it is a very efficient frequency sweep which does have an effect of "waking up" all of the driver by hitting every frequency it can possibly reproduce.


 
 Where can I find it in Audacity? Is it a plugin?


----------



## vapman

kurtextrem said:


> Where can I find it in Audacity? Is it a plugin?




Generate -> sine wave -> 1000hz
Generate -> sweep -> 30hz to 10khz

If you want to be really thorough then you do another 30hz to 10khz sweep with the left channel inverted but right normal. Then the other way around.

(Edit: I don't know why you can't just invert the whole stereo signal. But it's how Cardas does it.)


----------



## neilmanalo

vapman said:


> Sub $10 earbuds kept me from buying a $1700 CIEM when i realized how much earbuds were capable of.


 
 i know right, when I first tried the 5$ VE monk I was surprised on how it just trashes some 900$+ IEM's when it comes to soundstage and instrument separation.
 I now only use IEM"s when I really want isolation and bass.


----------



## alstone

I really wish it were possible to find budget IEM's around $10 or less. 
  
 High quality budget IEM's that is. Forum searches show threads for "budget" iem's closer to $30 at minimum for quality. 
  
 IEM's are far more versatile in my use since I need sound isolation when I travel. 
  
 At home earbuds are great but aren't useful for travel.


----------



## music4mhell

Any new earbuds in the town guys ?


----------



## To.M

alstone said:


> I really wish it were possible to find budget IEM's around $10 or less.
> 
> High quality budget IEM's that is. Forum searches show threads for "budget" iem's closer to $30 at minimum for quality.
> 
> ...




Here you are:

kz zs3
kz zst
kz ate
kz atr
(All of them at Gearbest)

uiisii hm7 


A bit more expensive:

Urbanfun hifi
Memt x5


----------



## neilmanalo

for those who own it or heard it. Can anyone compare the Rose Masya to Rose Mojitos?


----------



## ProLoL

It's burn in time!


----------



## AkashS04

Did anyone try earbuds from Urbanears? They are good.


----------



## ahmpanji

I need suggestion. After a while collecting IEM, I think it's my time now to change my preference to earbud.
 I need an earbud that's all-rounder, warm and having wide soundstage. I listen to much genres, like jazz, EDM and trap, folk, indie, progressive, post-rock and even nowadays alternative music. Sometimes I will use my earbud to watch Netflix.
  
 So far, I've been nominated Seahf 32 Ohm, TY Hi-Z 32 Ohm and Elibuds Sabia V4 on my list. I still can't decide which one I should buy. Mind to share your opinion with those three guys? Or do you have another suggestion for me in this level?
  
 Thanks


----------



## mochill

Get the Ve Zen 2


----------



## Ira Delphic

mochill said:


> Get the Ve Zen 2


 
  
 Are you replying to ahmpanji? This person is looking at $20 earbuds and you suggest a $150 Zen2. Why stop there... the Black edition is only around $350.
 And how can you suggest a Zen 2 when you don't know the source used?


----------



## mochill

Monk plus espresso


----------



## chinmie

ahmpanji said:


> I need suggestion. After a while collecting IEM, I think it's my time now to change my preference to earbud.
> I need an earbud that's all-rounder, warm and having wide soundstage. I listen to much genres, like jazz, EDM and trap, folk, indie, progressive, post-rock and even nowadays alternative music. Sometimes I will use my earbud to watch Netflix.
> 
> So far, I've been nominated Seahf 32 Ohm, TY Hi-Z 32 Ohm and Elibuds Sabia V4 on my list. I still can't decide which one I should buy. Mind to share your opinion with those three guys? Or do you have another suggestion for me in this level?
> ...




you might want to consider the edifier h185 and h180, also if you can up the budget a bit, i also like the toneking tp16 and the heavenly sounds groove


----------



## knudsen

"AK Audio" on ali has 5 bucks off of orders over 19$. Just press the relevant coupon here first:
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/119089
  
 You'll get the coupon plus 3$ rebate.
  
 Just ordered the Yinman 150 for 24.60, yay!
  
 Edit: well only on certain products, but the Yinmans are there


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

knudsen said:


> Just ordered the Yinman 150 for 24.60, yay!


 
 I heard on Headfi the Yinman 643  wasn't as good as the Faareal 64 ohm, any other opinions?


----------



## knudsen

I too saw somewhere it was badly reviewed, but I guess I'll rather trust Golov and Vapman. Also, fit has so much to say so there will always be different opinions. Should be somewhat similar to SHE3800 as I understand it, so if you don't like that it'll probably not be good


----------



## notamethlab

knudsen said:


> I too saw somewhere it was badly reviewed, but I guess I'll rather trust Golov and Vapman. Also, fit has so much to say so there will always be different opinions. Should be somewhat similar to SHE3800 as I understand it, so if you don't like that it'll probably not be good


 
It is a refined 3800; big soundstage, overall balanced sound and good bass impact.


----------



## knudsen

notamethlab said:


> It is a refined 3800; big soundstage, overall balanced sound and good bass impact.


 
  
 Thanks, sounds great!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Mx500's don't fit me well, so have more or less decided to go for other shells. I wonder how large a percentage of us have this problem


----------



## DBaldock9

knudsen said:


> Thanks, sounds great!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 If the VE Monk Plus & Asura, and the K's 500 earbuds, are Mx500 shells, then I also find they don't fit my ears very comfortably - and don't stay in-place when I'm moving around, unless worn over-the-ear.


----------



## notamethlab

knudsen said:


> Thanks, sounds great!  Mx500's don't fit me well, so have more or less decided to go for other shells. I wonder how large a percentage of us have this problem



Same here the mx500 doesn't fit me best, buds like the 3800, yinman 150/500, qian39, and e808+ are more suitable for my ears.


----------



## flamesofarctica

laughmoredaily said:


> I heard on Headfi the Yinman 150 wasn't as good as the Faareal 64 ohm, any other opinions?




I wrote my impressions a few pages back:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/18855#post_13339831

Really happy with it. The Yinman 64 on the other hand, I really didn't like


----------



## knudsen

notamethlab said:


> Same here the mx500 doesn't fit me best, buds like the 3800, yinman 150/500, qian39, and e808+ are more suitable for my ears.


 
  
 Me too... the e808+ fit is great. The round part of it does'nt seem smaller than the mx500, so I thought I had an idea putting some sugru on the side of a Qian25 to create the same shape. On the back side, pushing the whole thing a bit forward, like the e808. I almost did it on my Campfred right away as I was sure it was a great idea. It fits quite good, better than stock, but it seems to have killed something in the mids. It sounds strange now, not as I remember qian25. Can't quite wrap my head around it, other than maybe the outer curved edge of the mx500 shell plays a role in the mids, or the position in the ear has changed for the worse..


----------



## vapman

@BloodyPenguin
 Do you have asura 2.0 in your stable? Hoping for an asura 2 <-> HE150 comparison


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> @BloodyPenguin
> Do you have asura 2.0 in your stable? Hoping for an asura 2 <-> HE150 comparison


 

 I have the Asura 2.0, but unfortunately I recently sent the HE150 to one of my good friends who loves metal music.  He is REALLY enjoying the HE150.  He had never even tried an earbud before.
  
  
 I give too many of my earbuds away.. haaa. 
  
 --


----------



## vapman

bloodypenguin said:


> I have the Asura 2.0, but unfortunately I recently sent the HE150 to one of my good friends who loves metal music.  He is REALLY enjoying the HE150.  He had never even tried an earbud before.
> 
> 
> I give too many of my earbuds away.. haaa.
> ...


 
 Unless you don't remember the HE150 well enough, a vague comparison is fine, I'm just curious if they share overall similar qualities or are massively different in overall sound sig


----------



## BloodyPenguin

vapman said:


> Unless you don't remember the HE150 well enough, a vague comparison is fine, I'm just curious if they share overall similar qualities or are massively different in overall sound sig


 
  
 From memory, the Asura 2.0 is warmer.  I would say the big value earbud would be the HE150. 
  
 --


----------



## vapman

bloodypenguin said:


> From memory, the Asura 2.0 is warmer.  I would say the big value earbud would be the HE150.
> 
> --


 
 Hmm, well I will give it a shot and hope it's not too bright for me!


----------



## notamethlab

knudsen said:


> Me too... the e808+ fit is great. The round part of it does'nt seem smaller than the mx500, so I thought I had an idea putting some sugru on the side of a Qian25 to create the same shape. On the back side, pushing the whole thing a bit forward, like the e808. I almost did it on my Campfred right away as I was sure it was a great idea. It fits quite good, better than stock, but it seems to have killed something in the mids. It sounds strange now, not as I remember qian25. Can't quite wrap my head around it, other than maybe the outer curved edge of the mx500 shell plays a role in the mids, or the position in the ear has changed for the worse..


 
The e808+ in particular has a good fit because the drivers aren't centered like in the mx500 shells. 

I really wonder why so many brands use the mx500 style shell. I know it's cheap but, I feel like it's one of the most uncomfortable shells. My ears get sore much quicker with them in comparison to other styles.


----------



## vapman

I might have to give away my blox b320. Great detailed sound but just too bright for me.


----------



## SuperLuigi

So any personal faves for earbuds that cost less than $20 and come with a mic?  I was planning on just ordering the monk + with a mic as i already have them without a mic.  Anything else to consider?  I'd like a good quality mic if possible as I use it for gaming.


----------



## vapman

superluigi said:


> So any personal faves for earbuds that cost less than $20 and come with a mic?  I was planning on just ordering the monk + with a mic as i already have them without a mic.  Anything else to consider?  I'd like a good quality mic if possible as I use it for gaming.


 
 Hmm, well you could always use a mic cable on **** pt15.  I think ucotech 905 is about as good as it gets for gaming, but that is $60.


----------



## ZerkMeister

Has anyone found the all rounder ear bud?
 Good in vocals, bass and mids?


----------



## mochill

Puresounds ps600


----------



## music4mhell

zerkmeister said:


> Has anyone found the all rounder ear bud?
> Good in vocals, bass and mids?


 
 It depends.. what's your source ?
 Is  it a DAP, a good DAC/AMP like Mojo or Desktop DAC +AMP.
  
 Then people may be able to suggest accordingly !


----------



## golov17

zerkmeister said:


> Has anyone found the all rounder ear bud?
> Good in vocals, bass and mids?


 The more I use them, the more I like them.. (PS500 classic)


----------



## kartik7405

neilmanalo said:


> for those who own it or heard it. Can anyone compare the Rose Masya to Rose Mojitos?


 
 https://www.facebook.com/groups/headfi.org/permalink/10154815318089736/
 https://www.facebook.com/groups/headfi.org/permalink/10155011934444736/
  
 Have a look at these threads ;you will get your answer.Also difference between mojito blue vs other edition.


----------



## chinmie

zerkmeister said:


> Has anyone found the all rounder ear bud?
> Good in vocals, bass and mids?


 
  
 from what i have, my all arounder is the H185, TP16 and the Edimun V3


----------



## solitudarity

just received my Music Maker Toneking TP16 and I'm quite impressed with the sound with my S6 (I don't have a dedicated player...)

despite coming from IEMs I do enjoy the openess and the soundstage with these buds, which sounds fairly balanced with slight emphasis on the highs. 

definitely looking forward to purhasing other higher end buds in the future (after getting better source / players)


----------



## vapman

Anyone have latest version seahf 150? *LD 3.0*
 Not sure what is different from he 150, but tempted to try it as HE can't be found outside penon


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

vapman said:


> Anyone have latest version seahf 150? *LD 3.0*
> Not sure what is different from he 150, but tempted to try it as HE can't be found outside penon


 
 I'm curious as well. I wonder how all the 150ohm ear buds sound in relation to each other. However, I heard the Ty 32ohm to the 150ohm, there's not a big jump in sound, so maybe not worth it. 320 ohm is better I hear.
  
 PS: The HE150 is worth buying,  It puts my SenferPT15, ColaradC01 and K's 64ohm to shame.


----------



## ballog

vapman said:


> Anyone have latest version seahf 150? *LD 3.0*
> Not sure what is different from he 150, but tempted to try it as HE can't be found outside penon


 
@vapman got the Seahf 150 L.D 3.0. Paid $22 some 2 months back. Best earbud in my collection for the moment (my most expensive are the BE3 & Tomahawk though). For me its a better H180 (sound is more balanced), love the sub-bass and with Viper4android they can become bass canons on my phone (they take eq very well). Got my Walnut the day before and its a match made in heaven. The Seahf 150 are on sale at $14  perhaps the best earbud bargain right now. Tried the Seahf150/Walnut combo with Daft Punk's RAM (in wav) yesterday - that eighties vibe on some tracks just wow !!! Right now i'm rocking Burial's Untrue with same combo


----------



## vapman

Just finished Switchcraft modded Asura 2.0

Sounds crazy good vs. Stock asura 2... Way more energy all around!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

ballog said:


> The Seahf 150 are on sale at $14  perhaps the best earbud bargain right now. Tried the Seahf150/Walnut combo with Daft Punk's RAM (in wav) yesterday - that eighties vibe on some tracks just wow !!! Right now i'm rocking Burial's Untrue with same combo


 
 Some reviews on Ali say the Ty's 150 ohm's might be better. I guess for the price, one could choose both... but I might try the Ty's.


----------



## vapman

Of course a true bud lover must always own multiples, moreso when modding to properly compare


----------



## Tonx

golov17 said:


> The more I use them, the more I like them.. (PS500 classic)


 

 ​Puresounds ps260 is great for the price too, really like it. It seems PS did a good job on their earbuds. I have PS 150 on order now, really curious how it sounds for the low price.


----------



## golov17

tonx said:


> ​Puresounds ps260 is great for the price too, really like it. It seems PS did a good job on their earbuds. I have PS 150 on order now, really curious how it sounds for the low price.


Agreed, PS260 nice buds too


----------



## chaiyuta

Got it!

Sadly, There is no letter No. XXXX at the plug. There is only 500 Ω written.


----------



## fairx

Seems that mid ohm tier is getting lots of buzz lately. I might commit into 150 ohm too. Does anybody actually own most of 150ohms?


----------



## golov17

fairx said:


> Seems that mid ohm tier is getting lots of buzz lately. I might commit into 150 ohm too. Does anybody actually own most of 150ohms?


VE Asura


----------



## Saoshyant

Listening to the forgotten 150 ohm, the ES100. Too bad about all the QC issues.


----------



## mochill

VE asura2 asura 2 black edition,


----------



## mochill

Justed dropped the price for all my VE product


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> Listening to the forgotten 150 ohm, the ES100. Too bad about all the QC issues.




How i always felt. It sounds so good and i think is reliable as long as you don't push them too hard. Good for weak sources definitely


----------



## ctaxxxx

mochill said:


> Justed dropped the price for all my VE product


 

 * Sees Asura 2 Black Edition
  
 You had to post this as soon as I decided to get a Cavalli Liquid Carbon. If you still have these in a month or so, I might hit you up.


----------



## mochill

I hope someone buys them though, in need of money


----------



## ozkan

ballog said:


> @vapman
> got the Seahf 150 L.D 3.0. Paid $22 some 2 months back. Best earbud in my collection for the moment (my most expensive are the BE3 & Tomahawk though). For me its a better H180 (sound is more balanced), love the sub-bass and with Viper4android they can become bass canons on my phone (they take eq very well). Got my Walnut the day before and its a match made in heaven. The Seahf 150 are on sale at $14  perhaps the best earbud bargain right now. Tried the Seahf150/Walnut combo with Daft Punk's RAM (in wav) yesterday - that eighties vibe on some tracks just wow !!! Right now i'm rocking Burial's Untrue with same combo




Do you hsce





ballog said:


> @vapman
> got the Seahf 150 L.D 3.0. Paid $22 some 2 months back. Best earbud in my collection for the moment (my most expensive are the BE3 & Tomahawk though). For me its a better H180 (sound is more balanced), love the sub-bass and with Viper4android they can become bass canons on my phone (they take eq very well). Got my Walnut the day before and its a match made in heaven. The Seahf 150 are on sale at $14  perhaps the best earbud bargain right now. Tried the Seahf150/Walnut combo with Daft Punk's RAM (in wav) yesterday - that eighties vibe on some tracks just wow !!! Right now i'm rocking Burial's Untrue with same combo




Any comparisons to Monk/Monk+?


----------



## ballog

ozkan said:


> Do you hsce
> Any comparisons to Monk/Monk+?



@ozkan I find Monk+ so thick sounding that i hardly use them. My Monk original is more airy with elegant mids which i love for vocal jazz (though lacking in the low-end). The Seahf 150 are way better in every way except mids which are a tad recessed. The low end and sub-bass are way way better. They are quite balanced and detailed - a good all-rounder which oddly has been overlooked.
Whats hsce bro?


----------



## flamesofarctica

fairx said:


> Seems that mid ohm tier is getting lots of buzz lately. I might commit into 150 ohm too. Does anybody actually own most of 150ohms?




Have VE Asura 2, Yinman 150 and TY HP150. Asura 2 is great, Yinman 150 really impressed me, TY HP150 not that great IMO.


----------



## ozkan

ballog said:


> @ozkan I find Monk+ so thick sounding that i hardly use them. My Monk original is more airy with elegant mids which i love for vocal jazz (though lacking in the low-end). The Seahf 150 are way better in every way except mids which are a tad recessed. The low end and sub-bass are way way better. They are quite balanced and detailed - a good all-rounder which oddly has been overlooked.
> Whats hsce bro?




Sorry mistypo. It should be "have" bro. 

Thank you for the comparison btw.


----------



## tinkertailor

Anyone with a seahf 150, he150 or even the yinman 150 feel like uploading a pic of the driver to this thread, it would be appreciated:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds/765#post_13346930

(Or a related 150 ohm driver bud, see that thread)


----------



## theresanarc

I need to get replacements for my original VE Monk, something similar in price range and am considering either the Monk+, Seahf 150 L.D 3.0, or **** PT15 or whatever else you guys recommend in that $5-20ish price range.
  
 I enjoyed the original Monks with the foams on (they were a bit too hissy with high treble otherwise). Also have the FiiO EM3 but those are just very average imo.


----------



## cclocke

I'm looking to upgrade my VE Monk+, $50 budget. 
  
 I had the original VE Monk and loved them, the soundstage was fantastic, which is important to me.  Once they broke, I picked up the Monk+, but was a little disappointed tbh.  
  
  
 I've also have the LZ Z03a, which I'm also disappointed in.  Soundstage, bass are lacking and felt some sibilance.


----------



## ZerkMeister

music4mhell said:


> It depends.. what's your source ?
> Is  it a DAP, a good DAC/AMP like Mojo or Desktop DAC +AMP.
> 
> Then people may be able to suggest accordingly !


 
 It's in my signature .
 My LG V20 and my Cowon Plenue D and as for a amp a Audioquest Dragonfly 2.0 and Schitt Fulla 2.


----------



## vapman

cclocke said:


> I'm looking to upgrade my VE Monk+, $50 budget.
> 
> I had the original VE Monk and loved them, the soundstage was fantastic, which is important to me.  Once they broke, I picked up the Monk+, but was a little disappointed tbh.
> 
> ...


 
 what did you like / not like about original monk?
 same question but monk+ ?


----------



## cclocke

vapman said:


> what did you like / not like about original monk?
> same question but monk+ ?


 
  
 I think the original Monks just blew me away with the clarity as well as the sound coming from every direction.  For me, those are probably the two most important features. The Monk+ just felt like a watered down version imo.  Also, I felt the Monk bass was solid. I'm not a basshead so preferred the neutral tone. I also enjoyed listening to acoustic, classic rock, Beatles, etc with the Monks, which is the type of music I listen to most.
  
 I'm not a true audiophile yet so I can't really explain in too much more detail, unfortunately.


----------



## vapman

cclocke said:


> I think the original Monks just blew me away with the clarity as well as the sound coming from every direction.  For me, those are probably the two most important features. The Monk+ just felt like a watered down version imo.  Also, I felt the Monk bass was solid. I'm not a basshead so preferred the neutral tone.
> 
> I'm not a true audiophile yet so I can't really explain in too much more detail, unfortunately.


 
 There is a chance you might love the ucotech 905 if you dont mind importing from korea, but if you love upper mid and treble clarity and don't like much bass then they might be great.
 Is upper mids and treble your thing?


----------



## cclocke

vapman said:


> There is a chance you might love the ucotech 905 if you dont mind importing from korea, but if you love upper mid and treble clarity and don't like much bass then they might be great.
> Is upper mids and treble your thing?


 
 Thanks for the suggestion.  Actually, I think I'm more in the mids range.  I like having some bass, I just don't need the bass to dominate the music.


----------



## mochill

Asura 2 is what you want, selling mine


----------



## theresanarc

vapman said:


> what did you like / not like about original monk?
> same question but monk+ ?


 
  
 I think I liked the clarity of it but I foudn them too hissy on the trebles even with foams. Another reviewer said this problem doesn't exist with the Monk+ so I'm gonna try those out anyways. With the FiiO EM3s that I tried out, the bass was too weak, I don't need high bass but they just weren't as clear and full as compared to the Monk


----------



## silverfishla

cclocke said:


> I think the original Monks just blew me away with the clarity as well as the sound coming from every direction.  For me, those are probably the two most important features. The Monk+ just felt like a watered down version imo.  Also, I felt the Monk bass was solid. I'm not a basshead so preferred the neutral tone. I also enjoyed listening to acoustic, classic rock, Beatles, etc with the Monks, which is the type of music I listen to most.
> 
> I'm not a true audiophile yet so I can't really explain in too much more detail, unfortunately.


 

 I apologize for suggesting something more expensive, but you might like the Rose Masya.  I like rock music, and I think those have a great sound signature for Rock music.  Vocals are great on those and the bass section is still very good.


----------



## notamethlab

cclocke said:


> I think the original Monks just blew me away with the clarity as well as the sound coming from every direction.  For me, those are probably the two most important features. The Monk+ just felt like a watered down version imo.  Also, I felt the Monk bass was solid. I'm not a basshead so preferred the neutral tone. I also enjoyed listening to acoustic, classic rock, Beatles, etc with the Monks, which is the type of music I listen to most.
> 
> I'm not a true audiophile yet so I can't really explain in too much more detail, unfortunately.



 


Perhaps the yinman 150 will suit you but, if you have a powerful source then I'd suggest the yinman 500. Both sport a wide soundstage, balanced mids and highs while still retaining good amounts of bass.


----------



## ProLoL

The Ty Hi-z 650 sound stage is so narrow compared to the MX985. For me the MX985 is more natural sounding than the Ty Hi-z 650.
 Wasn't wow experience for me though the Ty Hi-z 650 sounds great nevertheless!
  
 I wonder how would the Cax golden reference would be vs the MX985.
  
 Btw, any person, company that provides recabling upgrade service?


----------



## vapman

prolol said:


> The Ty Hi-z 650 sound stage is so narrow compared to the MX985. For me the MX985 is more natural sounding than the Ty Hi-z 650.
> Wasn't wow experience for me though the Ty Hi-z 650 sounds great nevertheless!
> 
> I wonder how would the Cax golden reference would be vs the MX985.
> ...


 
  
 I agree with you here. They both are very laid back sound signature though which drives me up a wall. But, I think TY 650 has superior soundstage with enough headroom on your amp.


----------



## Danneq

cclocke said:


> I'm looking to upgrade my VE Monk+, $50 budget.
> 
> I had the original VE Monk and loved them, the soundstage was fantastic, which is important to me.  Once they broke, I picked up the Monk+, but was a little disappointed tbh.
> 
> ...


 

 I would suggest Musicmaker Tomahawk, which I found to be close in sound signature to original Monk but better. Treble is extended and some seem to not like it. I'm quite sensitive to harsh treble and peaky upper mids, but Tomahawk doesn't bother me at all. Treble is slightly colored. I haven't heard balanced armature drivers much but I find Tomahawk's highs to be slightly BA sounding (even if they are single dynamic driver).
 You can buy Tomahawk for around $40.

 Yuin PK2 is quite nice as well, but I find it lacking depth in the soundstage. So I don't get much 3D feel. But the mids are very nice and treble is not harsh at all. Bass isn't the best though.
 Nowadays I think PK2 is a bit overpriced at around $50-60.

 Shozy Cygnus is a step up in SQ and price from the other two. It has got nice mids and non sibilant highs. Bass and soundstage is okay but not overwhelming. You can get Cygnus for around $80 new. I think there's a used pair in the for sale forum...


----------



## Frederick Wang

Bug guy (Seahf) made an 800 OHM earbud 
 (Content: Chinese)http://www.erji.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1981208&extra=page%3D1


----------



## noknok23

Wow, clear shell and all white is very nice. I am very fond of the 650 model.
  
 what are they saying? I noticed it's some kind of review but google translate fail to make much sense out of it.
  
 On a side note, this race at the biggest resistance is going nuts. Who wants to listen to earbuds with 2kg amp that doesn't even fit into a jean pocket? well not me lol.
 I wish there was more low impedance totl.


----------



## AkashS04

Received SHE3800 yesterday. As you guys mentioned, this seems to be good Earbud so far. Especially when I use it with my Mobile and PowerAmp Music Player, Bass is rumbling the ear (at least initially it feels so). However, the same effect is not there with iPod Nano 1G. As my own Nano 1G was replaced by Apple and I bought this from ebay, so not sure if there is a difference in sound quality or not. I can continue to use PowerAmp on my mobile but here, there is a small issue. 3800 is not with Mic so it will be slightly inconvenient for me to use throughout the day as I do receives lots of calls during the day. But I will try to use it as much as possible. They are more convenient  than Monk+ and much much better fit also. Also, apart from this, is there any other Earbud with Mic which has similar kind of sound quality (Lots of bass and warm). How is Edifier P180. Are they similar to 3800 or even better?


----------



## golov17

akashs04 said:


> Received SHE3800 yesterday. As you guys mentioned, this seems to be good Earbud so far. Especially when I use it with my Mobile and PowerAmp Music Player, Bass is rumbling the ear (at least initially it feels so). However, the same effect is not there with iPod Nano 1G. As my own Nano 1G was replaced by Apple and I bought this from ebay, so not sure if there is a difference in sound quality or not. I can continue to use PowerAmp on my mobile but here, there is a small issue. 3800 is not with Mic so it will be slightly inconvenient for me to use throughout the day as I do receives lots of calls during the day. But I will try to use it as much as possible. They are more convenient  than Monk+ and much much better fit also. Also, apart from this, is there any other Earbud with Mic which has similar kind of sound quality (Los of bass and warm). How is Edifier P180. Are they similar to 3800 or even better?


 http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=4057


----------



## AkashS04

Thanks Golov. Looks great. I am now wondering why I did not order this earlier instead of without mic one.


----------



## AkashS04

Also, how do you compare Edifier P180 in comparison to SHE3800?


----------



## B9Scrambler

These DIY buds came in and I'm pleasantly surprised. Outside of the horrendously noisy cable (luckily there's a chin cinch to help with that) they are very well built and super comfortable. Looking at the pics the cable with a mic looks more plush so that's probably the better option to avoid microphonics. Keep in mind they have massive 16mm drivers so they're probably not going to fit well with those that have smaller outer ears.
 ​  ​  
Not sure how their sound stands vs. comparably price buds, but I'm liking them. Slightly cold signature with prominent, sparkly treble, a forward midrange, and surprisingly good sub-bass extension. I can listen to my DnB tracks without feeling like I'm missing out on anything. Worth the 13 CAD imo 






 
  
 Edit: Got them here for anyone that's interested;
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-16-mm-fever-unit-Aluminum-Metal-Earphone-Headset-Noise-Canceling-Micphone-Earbuds-for-Mobile-Phone/32779307988.html


----------



## AkashS04

How many days Lunashops.com will take to deliver to NY.


----------



## AkashS04

akashs04 said:


> How many days Lunashops.com will take to deliver to NY.


 
 Looks like 4-5 weeks. Is there any other Online Shop which can deliver this in a week or so? Or any Ebay/ Amazon Link?


----------



## Frederick Wang

noknok23 said:


> Wow, clear shell and all white is very nice. I am very fond of the 650 model.
> 
> what are they saying? I noticed it's some kind of review but google translate fail to make much sense out of it.


 
 Basically, balanced across the spectrum, beautiful treble, dense mid-range, fair amount of bass but don't reach down very much. Great soundstage and separation, vocal is near, very well layered, but depth is not strong suit. Very good dynamic. 
  
 I talked to buy guy, he said that this earbud was made 2 months ago, but he hasn't decided to produce them in bulk. Apparently there is some retuning to do. The final product could be very different.


----------



## Frederick Wang

Hey @noknok23
 I see you have campfred and Seahf650, care to make a comparison?


----------



## noknok23

Campfred is smooth easy to drive and well extended. Seahf is more punchy. Brighter, V shaped, needs powerful source. Kicks hit harder. I feel like most totl earbuds take the relaxed sound signature approach? That's not the case with seahf 650


----------



## ATi7500

Just received RY04 and RY4S: well I am puzzled.
  
 RY04 is clearly inferior technically, and it is quite mid centric, but there's something in its soundstage that makes me really love its sound. I cannot really point a finger at it. Seems almost like the mids are very upfront while highs and bass are very expanded in their presentation. Bass is not absent but not so powerful, extension is quite good. Highly depending on positioning to sound really well. A relaxing, smooth and laid back earbud overall. Also striking looks which is a +.
  
 RY4S has much more "classic" sound, meaning it has a quite standard V profile, but to my ears is not very refined. Bass texture is rough, and even though the impact is powerful, I don't enjoy it. I much prefer Qian25 and TY-Hi Z 32 to it. Maybe it needs burn in but first impression is "nothing special".


----------



## chaiyuta

My PureSounds PS100-500 Pop balanced has been Burn-in 20 hours passed. Vocal is so superb and very addictive likes BloodyPenguin said in his review. However its vocal tonality is a bit bright IMHO. Perhaps it needs more burn-in time.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

b9scrambler said:


> Not sure how their sound stands vs. comparably price buds, but I'm liking them. Slightly cold signature with prominent, sparkly treble,forward midrange, and surprisingly good sub-bass extension. Worth the 13 CAD imo
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks, for letting us know about the treble. I'll pass.


----------



## B9Scrambler

laughmoredaily said:


> Thanks, for letting us know about the treble. I'll pass.


 
  
 You are welcome.


----------



## PureSounds-cn

chaiyuta said:


> My PureSounds PS100-500 Pop balanced has been Burn-in 20 hours passed. Vocal is so superb and very addictive likes BloodyPenguin
> said in his review. However its vocal tonality is a bit bright IMHO. Perhaps it needs more burn-in time.


 100 hours or more ，


----------



## mochill

I'm still burning in my ps600 balanced


----------



## AkashS04

Is there any other link/shop to buy 3800 with Mic for faster delivery of earbuds?


----------



## chaiyuta

mochill said:


> I'm still burning in my ps600 balanced


 
 Which cable did you get? Is it Braided?


----------



## golov17

akashs04 said:


> Also, how do you compare Edifier P180 in comparison to SHE3800?


 I prefer 3800 in any respect


----------



## golov17

akashs04 said:


> Is there any other link/shop to buy 3800 with Mic for faster delivery of earbuds?


 nope


----------



## B9Scrambler

Those DIYs might be good for those of you that like to amp and EQ. Their big ol' 16mm drivers can thump when pushed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 Handles this noooo problem; lot of additional low end with a mild reduction to the high end to improve comfort at higher volumes (Edit: relative to what I normally listen at, that is). Mmm....delicious.


----------



## golov17

chaiyuta said:


> My PureSounds PS100-500 Pop balanced has been Burn-in 20 hours passed. Vocal is so superb and very addictive likes BloodyPenguin
> said in his review. However its vocal tonality is a bit bright IMHO. Perhaps it needs more burn-in time.


 So I'm glad that I chose the version of "classic", it lacks this lack


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Relaxing tonight with the *K's 500* *Earbud* & *Dogfish Head 120 Minute IPA*.

 https://www.ratebeer.com/beer/dogfish-head-120-minute-ipa/22904/
  

  
 --


----------



## notamethlab

b9scrambler said:


> Those DIYs might be good for those of you that like to amp and EQ. Their big ol' 16mm drivers can thump when pushed
> 
> 
> 
> ...






I have a feeling @vapman is going to be interested in those


----------



## vapman

notamethlab said:


> b9scrambler said:
> 
> 
> > Those DIYs might be good for those of you that like to amp and EQ. Their big ol' 16mm drivers can thump when pushed
> ...


 
 Funny you say that because I built some DIY ones with those exact drivers but diff shells nearly half a year ago!
 They are kind of bass light 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but have killer forward mids


----------



## B9Scrambler

notamethlab said:


> b9scrambler said:
> 
> 
> > Those DIYs might be good for those of you that like to amp and EQ. Their big ol' 16mm drivers can thump when pushed
> ...


 

 I was going to say I don't think they're quite capable of meeting his bass requirements, but that's already been done, lol.

 Their stock tuning reminds me of a colder K553 Pro in their balance. Adding in that low end gives them some added sub-bass to bring them more in line with iems. That said, un-EQd there is enough sub-bass to feel and satisfy me. Can't say the same for the Monk and MX470 which won't accept that EQ.


----------



## Saoshyant

@vapman Damnit, these earbuds of yours are going to make me consider having to buy a powerful amp.  The Opus #1 & Cayin C5 will do for now, but if I get a chance to audition something like the Micro iDSD, I might not be able to hold back from ordering.  I'm already annoyed I missed the chance to order the black version for $400.  As it is with initial impressions, if you're looking for a compliment to something technical like the Mojito or CampFred, these will do very well.  Given you also have a V10, what are your thoughts on the pairing?


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> @vapman Damnit, these earbuds of yours are going to make me consider having to buy a powerful amp.  The Opus #1 & Cayin C5 will do for now, but if I get a chance to audition something like the Micro iDSD, I might not be able to hold back from ordering.  I'm already annoyed I missed the chance to order the black version for $400.  As it is with initial impressions, if you're looking for a compliment to something technical like the Mojito or CampFred, these will do very well.  Given you also have a V10, what are your thoughts on the pairing?


 
 I'm waiting on the $400 sale to happen again too actually 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll let you know when it happens! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 You mean v10 + mag7?


----------



## mochill

You can get the VE RA2.0


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman said:


> I'm waiting on the $400 sale to happen again too actually   I'll let you know when it happens!
> 
> You mean v10 + mag7?




Yep, was curious what you thought of that pairing.


----------



## vapman

saoshyant said:


> Yep, was curious what you thought of that pairing.


 
 Hmmm..... personally speaking, i tried it for a while and felt the same way as I do using them on the walnut. When you're not pushing em to legit basshead levels, they have a really wide soundstage, kinda forward midrange (but not unnaturally so, everyone knows i get driven up a wall over natural sound), transparent sound. I forgot i was wearing headphones maybe a dozen times while running errands using them. but when i'm home i'm pumping max amp power to em for full slammage mode.


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman said:


> Hmmm..... personally speaking, i tried it for a while and felt the same way as I do using them on the walnut. When you're not pushing em to legit basshead levels, they have a really wide soundstage, kinda forward midrange (but not unnaturally so, everyone knows i get driven up a wall over natural sound), transparent sound. I forgot i was wearing headphones maybe a dozen times while running errands using them. but when i'm home i'm pumping max amp power to em for full slammage mode.


 
  
 What do you use for you home setup?  I'm sure I've read it somewhere but it's escaping me.  Just curious what I'd need to be looking at to get the full experience.  Then again I'd probably try to figure out what I need for transportable listening as I really do use daps & amps for everything.  And from there I'll see what I can do to try to pull off a truly portable setup.


----------



## fade2blak

Just received 30 minutes back the SHE3800 Bass Mod by PW.
  
 http://www.xn--12c1cc8df1b2g.com/product/279/she3800-mod-full-sound-jack-plug-l-edition
  
 Loving the Bass


----------



## knudsen

fade2blak said:


> Just received 30 minutes back the SHE3800 Bass Mod by PW.
> 
> http://www.xn--12c1cc8df1b2g.com/product/279/she3800-mod-full-sound-jack-plug-l-edition
> 
> Loving the Bass


 
 Have thought about those... can you compare them more to the original? Do you know what he has done to them? And how much was the shipping? Thanks


----------



## weedophile

@fade2blak @knudsen
 I couldnt give up the opportunity to mod my fav *budget* buds, the SHE3800 and right now they are bass monsters. Not exactly sure if that was what i am looking for and there seem to be some compromise on the mids. Gotta try the @ozkan mod when i get home!


----------



## KcLKcL

Have $25 and looking for an upgrade to VE Monk+

I like VE Monk's soundsig. And I listen to all kind of music from EDM to Jazz.

Actually I'm confused between TP16 or RX1. Which one should I get? Or any other earbud do you recommend for my taste?


----------



## ozkan

kclkcl said:


> Have $25 and looking for an upgrade to VE Monk+
> 
> I like VE Monk's soundsig. And I listen to all kind of music from EDM to Jazz.
> 
> Actually I'm confused between TP16 or RX1. Which one should I get? Or any other earbud do you recommend for my taste?




Seahf LD-3.0 150 ohm

2016 Seahf LD-3.0 High Impedance In Ear Earphone Earbud 150 ohms/ 320 ohms/400 ohms Flat Head Plug High Impedance PK Monk Earbud
 http://s.aliexpress.com/bUNra2ER 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## KcLKcL

ozkan said:


> Seahf LD-3.0 150 ohm
> 
> 2016 Seahf LD-3.0 High Impedance In Ear Earphone Earbud 150 ohms/ 320 ohms/400 ohms Flat Head Plug High Impedance PK Monk Earbud
> http://s.aliexpress.com/bUNra2ER
> (from AliExpress Android)


 
 Do you think my phone (Xiaomi Redmi 3) can handle it directly?


----------



## mochill

Just get the monk plus espresso


----------



## KcLKcL

mochill said:


> Just get the monk plus espresso


 
 Does it really sound better lol, they're the same Monk+ with different color isn't it?


----------



## mochill

It does , I have monk plus and also the candies which is the same as the espresso edition. Candies and espresso edition is more cleaner and fuller


----------



## fade2blak

knudsen said:


> Have thought about those... can you compare them more to the original? Do you know what he has done to them? And how much was the shipping? Thanks


 

 I am sorry I don't have the original to compare. I bought these mainly to listen to HipHop and so far liking the bass on these. I checked with them if they could ship international but they said no. I used a freight forwarder to ship these. $10 extra but I bought some other stuff as well.
  
 I also placed order for Cypherus Blue Darth with 4.4mm balanced connector. I am curious about the bass on them.


----------



## DBaldock9

kclkcl said:


> Does it really sound better lol, they're the same Monk+ with different color isn't it?


 
  
 I've got the Espresso Monk Plus (balanced 2.5TRRS), with the twisted brown/white cable.
 Even when using them with the Unbalanced-to-Balanced adapter (which effectively makes them unbalanced), they have noticeably better Bass quality & quantity, than the standard Monk Plus with the thin black cable.


----------



## springbay

ozkan said:


> Seahf LD-3.0 150 ohm
> 
> 2016 Seahf LD-3.0 High Impedance In Ear Earphone Earbud 150 ohms/ 320 ohms/400 ohms Flat Head Plug High Impedance PK Monk Earbud
> http://s.aliexpress.com/bUNra2ER
> (from AliExpress Android)


 
  
 Let me add that the current price (around $43) for the Seahf LD-3.0 320 at the same page is quite good. I ordered a spare pair about a week ago.
 I can't recommend the Seahf LD-3.0 400 though. They are my least liked high impedance bug guy buds.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

springbay said:


> Let me add that the current price (around $43) for the Seahf LD-3.0 320 at the same page is quite good. I ordered a spare pair about a week ago.
> I can't recommend the Seahf LD-3.0 400 though. They are my least liked high impedance bug guy buds.


 
 I'm confused why you bought the 320's then, wouldn't they sound similar?


----------



## vapman

I respect the pre modded she3800, but, the reason i never did myself, is the yinman 150 is only 20 bucks. maybe 25?
  
@LaughMoreDaily  Before you joined the Seahf models were pretty popular to compare, but people stopped talking about em because the LD 3.0 are kinda old now. They'd been out for a while when you joined. Luckily, that means there's a lot of info posted about em  Basically the 400s and 320s sound either very similar or very different from one another depending on what version they are. The 150s always were their own sound and only came back up cause of the sale really... (not that 22 to 15 is a huge sale but nice enough)


----------



## chaiyuta

I sent message to Aliexpress resellers about Rose Mojito Marble Blue Color. They totally confirmed that the marble blue is out of stock. They all sell only Red-Blue Color. Then I look up at taobao however Mojito product page has been blocked. ( I guess that this page can been seen only Chinese users.) Does anyone know where Mojito Marble Blue has been sold?


----------



## Townyj

Received my Crow Audio Ravens today  my B160 are also at the post office.


----------



## chellity

I'm curious if anyone had some insight into earbuds specifically for working out?  I definitely need something with an open airy sound to be able to hear my surroundings when i'm outside.  But I can't really find anything to suit me.  
  
 Are there any decent earbuds that are sweat-resistant?  Bluetooth would even be good for running too..I can only think of something like a **** pt15 with a bluetooth cable, but I do not think they would fit me well since I cannot fit 1more eo320s well at all, and mx500 shells are only okay.  Qian39s fit me best so far.
  
 I'd love to run with something like a yinman 150, but i'd be scared of messing them up so fast.  Is there a better choice for working out?


----------



## Frederick Wang

chellity said:


> I'm curious if anyone had some insight into earbuds specifically for working out?  I definitely need something with an open airy sound to be able to hear my surroundings when i'm outside.  But I can't really find anything to suit me.
> 
> Are there any decent earbuds that are sweat-resistant?  Bluetooth would even be good for running too..I can only think of something like a **** pt15 with a bluetooth cable, but I do not think they would fit me well since I cannot fit 1more eo320s well at all, and mx500 shells are only okay.  Qian39s fit me best so far.
> 
> I'd love to run with something like a yinman 150, but i'd be scared of messing them up so fast.  Is there a better choice for working out?


 
 SHE3800 is my choice for jogging, very decent sound quality, light and snugly in the ears. I bought them for about 2.5 dollar apiece, could be seen as dispensable. They are actually very durable too.


----------



## springbay

laughmoredaily said:


> I'm confused why you bought the 320's then, wouldn't they sound similar?


 
  
 Well I actually ordered a pair of Seahf 150 because the price was dirt cheap and I wanted to compare them to my TY Hi-Z 150, and when I had them in the basket I also ordered a spare pair of Seahf 320. Mainly because the Seahf 320 are one of the buds I've used the most since last summer, and I wanted to be sure to have a spare pair if they go out of stock and replaced by a new model.
  
 To put it in perspective I ordered the TY Hi-Z HP320*M *during 11:11, and they totally blew me away. Absolutely great sounding buds that I consider far more competent than the much pricier TY Hi-Z HP650. A few pages back someone asked about the best buds that work with every genre. If i could I would absolutely recommend the HP320M to that person.
  
 Problem is that I bought the last pair on AliExpress, and someone in this thread commented that they are out of stock everywhere. So sadly when my HP320M break, they are gone forever. I don't want to be in the same situation with my Seahf 320.


----------



## Pulpfiction

I was seriously tempted to snap up a SeaHF150 LD 3.0 at the price of 14.30$. If it's using the same drivers as HE150 it may still be a little bit different because of the cable and plug used. From review comments on AliExpress though it really does sound like it could have the exact same driver, because the experiences match up very well from what I hear from HE150. I'd prefer the braided cable over the normal one on the HE150 if it's soft, but I saw in customer review pics that the SeaHF has a (albeit nice looking) straight plug. For on the go use I don't want any straight plugs / jacks anymore as I noticed they start showing problems way earlier from all the moving around in pockets... Damn, still can't justify ordering these to myself ! I did order 2x HE150, one as a spare for me and one for my brother, but maybe I'll just give him one of 3 new (new in bag that is, they're aging in there  ) Monk v1  and keep 2 spares ! I *am* a bit afraid these will go as they came, and I do feel the sound coming from these drivers at this price, is crazy value. For home use, I'm really loving K's 500. Wish I could audition SeaHF 650 !


----------



## weedophile

Did the @ozkan mod on the SHE3800. The bass was much more suppressed but still quite bassy for me. Hence i rolled some cotton and stuffed it at the back cover like another ozkan's mod here
  
 Not sure if that's what i was looking for but i just tamed the bass monster


----------



## Brian Coffey

springbay said:


> Well I actually ordered a pair of Seahf 150 because the price was dirt cheap and I wanted to compare them to my TY Hi-Z 150, and when I had them in the basket I also ordered a spare pair of Seahf 320. Mainly because the Seahf 320 are one of the buds I've used the most since last summer, and I wanted to be sure to have a spare pair if they go out of stock and replaced by a new model.
> 
> To put it in perspective I ordered the TY Hi-Z HP320*M *during 11:11, and they totally blew me away. Absolutely great sounding buds that I consider far more competent than the much pricier TY Hi-Z HP650. A few pages back someone asked about the best buds that work with every genre. If i could I would absolutely recommend the HP320M to that person.
> 
> Problem is that I bought the last pair on AliExpress, and someone in this thread commented that they are out of stock everywhere. So sadly when my HP320M break, they are gone forever. I don't want to be in the same situation with my Seahf 320.


 
 Are these not the same? https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/TY-Hi-Z-Earbud-HP150-150ohm-HP320-320ohm-HP400-400ohm-HiFi-Earbud/1994049_32673534526.html


----------



## alizeofeniquito

newest faaeal 64ohm or diy mx500? which is better for rock?


----------



## noknok23

anyone has campfred and stardust on each side? how do they compare? thanks


----------



## springbay

brian coffey said:


> Are these not the same? https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/TY-Hi-Z-Earbud-HP150-150ohm-HP320-320ohm-HP400-400ohm-HiFi-Earbud/1994049_32673534526.html


 
  
 Nope, those are the models that share the same cable as the Seahf LD-3 line.
  
 Seahf LD-3.0 150 = TY Hi-Z HP150
 Seahf LD-3.0 320 = TY Hi-Z HP320
 Seahf LD-3.0 400 = TY Hi-Z HP400
 Seahf LD-4.0 400 = TY Hi-Z HP400S
  
 The TY Hi-Z HP320*M *looks pretty much the same as Seahf Smart 1.0, so I guess they are based on the same cable and driver.
 Here they are together


----------



## B9Scrambler

​  
​  
​


----------



## noknok23

chellity said:


> I'm curious if anyone had some insight into earbuds specifically for working out?  I definitely need something with an open airy sound to be able to hear my surroundings when i'm outside.  But I can't really find anything to suit me.
> 
> Are there any decent earbuds that are sweat-resistant?  Bluetooth would even be good for running too..I can only think of something like a **** pt15 with a bluetooth cable, but I do not think they would fit me well since I cannot fit 1more eo320s well at all, and mx500 shells are only okay.  Qian39s fit me best so far.
> 
> I'd love to run with something like a yinman 150, but i'd be scared of messing them up so fast.  Is there a better choice for working out?


 
 did you try these tips: 
 they give a more "airy" sound signature by placing earbuds to a slight distance of the ears and give a very stable fit. This+a shirt clip to limit cable movements, it should be very active friendly.


----------



## Ira Delphic

chellity said:


> I'm curious if anyone had some insight into earbuds specifically for working out?  I definitely need something with an open airy sound to be able to hear my surroundings when i'm outside.  But I can't really find anything to suit me.
> 
> Are there any decent earbuds that are sweat-resistant?  Bluetooth would even be good for running too..I can only think of something like a **** pt15 with a bluetooth cable, but I do not think they would fit me well since I cannot fit 1more eo320s well at all, and mx500 shells are only okay.  Qian39s fit me best so far.
> 
> I'd love to run with something like a yinman 150, but i'd be scared of messing them up so fast.  Is there a better choice for working out?


 
  
 Check out - Sennheiser MX 680 Adidas Sports. There are frequently very low cost refurbs on Ebay. It has two peice cable a volume control in which is worth the cost of the earbuds! The volume contril sectiion can be used with other earbuds. They are not bass monsters, and the sound may take some getting used to. It is very precise and the soundstage isn't huge. Waterproof and it comes with earhooks, rings, foams, a ton of accessories and a nice nylon pouch. I think the most underappreciated earbud on Head-Fi!


----------



## vapman

ira delphic said:


> Check out - Sennheiser MX 680 Adidas Sports. There are frequently very low cost refurbs on Ebay. It has two peice cable a volume control in which is worth the cost of the earbuds! The volume contril sectiion can be used with other earbuds. They are not bass monsters, and the sound may take some getting used to. It is very precise and the soundstage isn't huge. Waterproof and it comes with earhooks, rings, foams, a ton of accessories and a nice nylon pouch. I think the most underappreciated earbud on Head-Fi!


 
 These are a good one, i have a set ive been meaning to try and repair the volume control on for like 400 years.


----------



## tinkertailor

springbay said:


> Seahf LD-3.0 150 = TY Hi-Z HP150
> Seahf LD-3.0 320 = TY Hi-Z HP320
> Seahf LD-3.0 400 = TY Hi-Z HP400
> Seahf LD-4.0 400 = TY Hi-Z HP400S


 
 are these seahf and comparitve ty hi-z models basically the exact same earbuds?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

tinkertailor said:


> are these seahf and comparitve ty hi-z models basically the exact same earbuds?


 
 That would be weird since it's the same company.


----------



## springbay

tinkertailor said:


> are these seahf and comparitve ty hi-z models basically the exact same earbuds?


 

 Like @ClieOS explained a couple a of pages ago


> SeaHF = Bug Guys = Hi-Z's OEM. TY / Hi-Z get their earbuds from Bug Guys, and Bug Guys tunes his earbuds to fit TY / Hi-Z's need. SeaHF is just the brand name Bug Guys used.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Ok, so SeaHF and TY Hi-Z should sound different.
  
 I wonder who makes HE 150 ohm? Or, if it sounds different then the two.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

After finding KOSS KSC75 ear clip headphones, I'm giving up ear buds... Sorry, everyone. 
  
 I will keep my favourite pairs that work best with the player I have and then sell the rest on the used forums as a package deal.


----------



## vapman

laughmoredaily said:


> After finding KOSS KSC75 ear clip headphones, I'm giving up ear buds... Sorry, everyone.
> 
> I will keep my favourite pairs that work best with the player I have and then sell the rest on the used forums as a package deal.


 
 Get more ksc's, a cheap soldering iron and a lot of premade cables...


----------



## Danneq

laughmoredaily said:


> After finding KOSS KSC75 ear clip headphones, I'm giving up ear buds... Sorry, everyone.
> 
> I will keep my favourite pairs that work best with the player I have and then sell the rest on the used forums as a package deal.


 

 Clip on earphones are great! After earbuds, it is my second favorite design. I've got Audio Technica ATH EM9d, Dunu DN-C60II, JVC HP-AL600-B, Pioneer SE-EX9, Victor HP-AL700 & Yuin G2A.

 Yuin G2A was especially great for around $35-40. Too bad they discontinued it (you can still find the high impedance G1A which costs well over $100).

 KSC75 is on my list but I'm not in a hurry. My main focus is (TOTL) earbuds...


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> Clip on earphones are great! After earbuds, it is my second favorite design. I've got Audio Technica ATH EM9d, Dunu DN-C60II, JVC HP-AL600-B, Pioneer SE-EX9, Victor HP-AL700 & Yuin G2A.
> 
> Yuin G2A was especially great for around $35-40. Too bad they discontinued it (you can still find the high impedance G1A which costs well over $100).
> 
> KSC75 is on my list but I'm not in a hurry. My main focus is (TOTL) earbuds...


 
 It'd be a shock if supplies of ksc dried up anytime soon. I think you're good


----------



## voxdub

laughmoredaily said:


> After finding KOSS KSC75 ear clip headphones, I'm giving up ear buds... Sorry, everyone.
> 
> I will keep my favourite pairs that work best with the player I have and then sell the rest on the used forums as a package deal.



Traitor, hey whatever works for you, if the KOSS clip ons work then enjoy them, I was tempted by them but not sure in what scenario they'd be better than any of my buds or Hd668b.


----------



## one1speed

lh86 said:


> Here are a pictures of latest version of Masya which is in term of SQ is worse than original one IMO.


 

 I thought I would post an additional reply to this. I had my Masya come in from Penon this morning, quite impressed so far. I wanted to note the screen on the drivers I received are not those shown above. Mine have the small holes throughout the screen, as in the original, not the minimized holes shown above.  One note regarding fit, they are tougher to fit than the simpler Yuin buds and many others out there (for me, anyway). It seems the diameter is actually a touch smaller than the Yuins. It kept slipping in my left ear, not sitting well. So I added a Yuin donut foam under the full Rose foam, finding this is helping (still note quite perfect). Unsure if there's a sound difference. May make sense to try a thin strip of electrical tape, or similar, around the circumference of the driver. Anyway, enjoying these so far.


----------



## tintheman

voxdub said:


> Traitor, hey whatever works for you, if the KOSS clip ons work then enjoy them, I was tempted by them but not sure in what scenario they'd be better than any of my buds or Hd668b.


 
 Koss KSC75 to me has the best 3D sound imaging for watching movies, you should try it since it cost only $15...it stays with my PC at all time pairing with O2 ODAC/AMP...


----------



## knudsen

weedophile said:


> @fade2blak @knudsen
> I couldnt give up the opportunity to mod my fav *budget* buds, the SHE3800 and right now they are bass monsters. Not exactly sure if that was what i am looking for and there seem to be some compromise on the mids. Gotta try the @ozkan mod when i get home!


 
  
 Gave it a new cable and jack too - effect is much larger than I expected. Everything seems much clearer, also the mids it seems. The perfect work out bud for me Gotta listen some more though, and compare to unmodded ones when they arrive... Gotta say though, the damn pins where one solders are small... had to use 2 jacks, the first one became one large piece of solder. Hope it can be cleaned up.
  

  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-one-pair-viablue-3-5mm-Stereo-Mini-Connector-Gold-Plated-Plug-for-DIY-headphone/32754958372.html
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-Sales-1-2M-DIY-Replacement-wire-Audio-Cable-Headphone-Repair-Headset-Wire-DIY-Headphone-Earphone/32703915783.html
  
 Btw, at first I put a horseshoe in there, taped to the unit. There is some kind of horseshoe in the shell, but I don't think it keeps tight. As expected, it killed the bass, or at least it became much lower and very tight/dry... it was'nt a bad bud, I just remembered I like bass
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But maybe it would give half the effect covering only half of the holes.


----------



## vapman

knudsen said:


> Gave it a new cable and jack too - effect is much larger than I expected. Everything seems much clearer, also the mids it seems. The perfect work out bud for me Gotta listen some more though, and compare to unmodded ones when they arrive... Gotta say though, the damn pins where one solders are small... had to use 2 jacks, the first one became one large piece of solder. Hope it can be cleaned up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Good work, let the DIY spirit spread


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

tintheman said:


> Koss KSC75 to me has the best 3D sound imaging for watching movies, you should try it since it cost only $15...it stays with my PC at all time pairing with O2 ODAC/AMP...


 
 They cost me $30.00 online (incl. taxes) in Canada and that's cheap because the local store wanted $15.00 more.


----------



## Hailin

vapman said:


> Get more ksc's, a cheap soldering iron and a lot of premade cables...


 
 This times I don't know how many million. The cable and jack they use are complete junk. Keeps the price down though. I was actually thinking of picking up a pencil iron and some cable to learn and play with the 7 or 8 broken pairs I have lying around. I know they have a lifetime warranty but it would cost me more to send them back then just buy another pair. I should have gave up but I just love that KSC75/35 sound to much. Apparently they are good starting place to learn how to fix and replace cables.


----------



## weedophile

knudsen said:


> Gave it a new cable and jack too - effect is much larger than I expected. Everything seems much clearer, also the mids it seems. The perfect work out bud for me Gotta listen some more though, and compare to unmodded ones when they arrive... Gotta say though, the damn pins where one solders are small... had to use 2 jacks, the first one became one large piece of solder. Hope it can be cleaned up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Sounds like something interesting i can venture into lol. The ozkan mod i did with the blue tack near the wires to block out the hole and coupled that with blocking 2 outer holes with cotton seem to make the sound better. It creates a very atmospheric music which resonates in a tight area which i kinda enjoy, and if i can describe its like recording in a small studio.

But i still think for the best bass performance, its probably just the stock with upgraded cables and maybe closing one of the vents at the back.

Anw i think the benefit of modding is that we can keep trying until the earphone produces something that our ears enjoy


----------



## Townyj

Received my B160 this morning. Will have a listen today and make some comparisons to my B320  the delivery box looked pretty badly bashed up. Lucky the earbuds are in the small blox case/box. So they would take a bit to crush with all the bubble wrap etc.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

vapman said:


> Get more ksc's, a cheap soldering iron and a lot of premade cables...


 
 Where's a good supply for premade cables? Just search on Ali? Thanks!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

hailin said:


> I know they have a lifetime warranty but it would cost me more to send them back then just buy another pair. I should have gave up but I just love that KSC75/35 sound to much.


 
 Really? How much does Koss want to send you a new replacement KSC75? That's sad to hear.


----------



## Frederick Wang

townyj said:


> Received my B160 this morning. Will have a listen today and make some comparisons to my B320
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Great! My B320 should reach me anytime now, very excited.


----------



## golov17




----------



## Pulpfiction

As I'm getting more playing hours on my K's 500 I really must say I love them! They sound so effortless, really good bass response and extention but leaves all the space for the rest of the frequencies - nothing seems to interfere with eachother. Not distracting bass cannon bass, but controlled and really adding to the liveliness and ambiance of the music, wether I'm playing electronic stuff or listening to a bass guitar in a band. Really fleshes out the sound and together with the airiness earbuds are known for gives me that full-speakers-in-my-ear experience. Extremely detailed, very good spacial ques (big soundstage with really good seperation between different sounds) without being distracting or fatigueing. Doesn't matter what I throw at them, everything sounds good, and even though I do EQ them a bit (I bring the mids up just a tad) , they are tuned really well and really don't *need* EQ. I 'only' ended up paying something like 78$ for them after asking for a discount, and whilst they arent the best value for money compared to some lower tier budget kings, I'm really happy I got them. Perhaps in TOTL buds they are btw, but I haven't heard others like TY HP-650 or SeaHF 650 (not to mention the Indonesian buds).


----------



## Ira Delphic

townyj said:


> Received my B160 this morning. Will have a listen today and make some comparisons to my B320
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Excellent - I have the B160 and want to know how it compares to the B320! I reached out to Blox regarding the difference and this was the reply:
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



The B320 have richer texture,more bass,bigger imaging and soundstage,also
 impact hit more harder.


----------



## mochill

Sounds like I need the b320


----------



## vapman

ira delphic said:


> Excellent - I have the B160 and want to know how it compares to the B320! I reached out to Blox regarding the difference and this was the reply:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Geez! and i thought the B320 had no bass...!


----------



## vapman

laughmoredaily said:


> Where's a good supply for premade cables? Just search on Ali? Thanks!


 
 Yes exactly, if you comb thru the thread and DIY Earbuds thread theres a lot of good cable links. You can get a nice Aoyue station for under 40 bucks CAD too. Then get some 63/37 solder and bobs your uncle .


----------



## mochill

TY Hi-z 32ohm 2.5mm Balanced Version L-shaped plug HiFi Earbuds Earphone
 http://s.aliexpress.com/6VfmQJbm 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## mochill

50mm speaker unit high impedance 540ohms Beryllium film Double magnetic High resolution
 http://s.aliexpress.com/ZjQrmMZz 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## AkashS04

golov17 said:


> I prefer 3800 in any respect


 
 Thanks. So I will order 3800 with Mic only. Is there anything even better for me as next earbud? More Bass and Warm and Rumble but better clarity (not harsh though)?


----------



## tinkertailor

akashs04 said:


> Thanks. So I will order 3800 with Mic only. Is there anything even better for me as next earbud? More Bass and Warm and Rumble but better clarity (not harsh though)?


 
 You might be my new favourite poster since the other extreme is perhaps more annoying.


----------



## ozkan

Is there any Remax 305M owner here who could compare them to the Monk/Monk+?


----------



## vapman

ozkan said:


> Is there any Remax 305M owner here who could compare them to the Monk/Monk+?


 
 I could do a RM303 comparison for you. I almost bought 305M, but golov said many occasions he finds 305M inferior to 303. So, I just got backup 303's. (My GF stole them all! I need more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## AkashS04

Did anyone try JBL Tempo Earbuds: https://www.jbl.com/earbuds/TEMPO+EARBUD.html?dwvar_TEMPO%20EARBUD_color=Black 
  
 How are they?


----------



## vapman

akashs04 said:


> Did anyone try JBL Tempo Earbuds: https://www.jbl.com/earbuds/TEMPO+EARBUD.html?dwvar_TEMPO%20EARBUD_color=Black
> 
> How are they?


 
 not bad and not great either.... if you find a set, try them out, they've been discontinued for some time.


----------



## AkashS04

vapman said:


> not bad and not great either.... if you find a set, try them out, they've been discontinued for some time.


 
 Are they with superb and deep Bass and warm sound signature? How are they in comparison to 3800 or Monk+


----------



## AkashS04

vapman said:


> not bad and not great either.... if you find a set, try them out, they've been discontinued for some time.


 
 After trying SHE3800,  I guess I am going to make it as Benchmark for comparison


----------



## vapman

akashs04 said:


> Are they with superb and deep Bass and warm sound signature? How are they in comparison to 3800 or Monk+


 
 Worse than both. Haven't had mine in a couple years, so this is off memory.


----------



## AkashS04

vapman said:


> Worse than both. Haven't had mine in a couple years, so this is off memory.


 
 Hmm. Then I might not try. But does JBL make earbud anymore? I have not come across. But I know their speakers are of good quality.


----------



## chellity

ira delphic said:


> Check out - Sennheiser MX 680 Adidas Sports. There are frequently very low cost refurbs on Ebay. It has two peice cable a volume control in which is worth the cost of the earbuds! The volume contril sectiion can be used with other earbuds. They are not bass monsters, and the sound may take some getting used to. It is very precise and the soundstage isn't huge. Waterproof and it comes with earhooks, rings, foams, a ton of accessories and a nice nylon pouch. I think the most underappreciated earbud on Head-Fi!


 
  
 Thank you! Think i'm gonna have to grab a pair of these and some SHE3800s to mess around with....inexpensive earbuds are too much fun.  Hopefully one day, there will be some sweat resistant bluetooth buds  I used to use weird Sony earbud/headband things for running years ago, and would like something similar with bluetooth for those extended runs.


----------



## flamesofarctica

vapman said:


> Geez! and i thought the B320 had no bass...!




Yep it's extremely light on bass IMO


----------



## vapman

mochill said:


> 50mm speaker unit high impedance 540ohms Beryllium film Double magnetic High resolution
> http://s.aliexpress.com/ZjQrmMZz
> (from AliExpress Android)


----------



## DBaldock9

mochill said:


> 50mm speaker unit high impedance 540ohms Beryllium film Double magnetic High resolution
> http://s.aliexpress.com/ZjQrmMZz
> (from AliExpress Android)


 
  
 I'm guessing that would be for an on-the-ear, rather than in-the-ear earbud...


----------



## vapman

dbaldock9 said:


> I'm guessing that would be for an on-the-ear, rather than in-the-ear earbud...  :wink_face:




Maybe he's secretly an elephant?


----------



## Blackground

Does any have a rose mojito that they have paired with balanced cable? If so, what was your experience?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

ozkan said:


> Is there any Remax 305M owner here who could compare them to the Monk/Monk+?


 
 I just got mine today. I can't compare mine to Monk but I can let you know how good I think they are.


----------



## silverfishla

I have the Rose Mojito and use a Fiio balanced cable with it (people hate this cable because it's kind of stiff, but it sounds good and nicely built). In my opinion, Mojito is worthy of going balanced because usually the benefits of balanced is a deeper soundstage and lift and oomph in the bass section. I can tell you that this is true with the Mojito and it handles that very well. As a comparison, the Masya's do not benefit as much.





blackground said:


> Does any have a rose mojito that they have paired with balanced cable? If so, what was your experience?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Big *AliExpress* sale coming in about a week.  Purchase can be made *March 30th*.

 https://sale.aliexpress.com/__pc/7thanniversary.htm
  

 I am building a list of Earbud Deals on our Earbuds Anonymous Facebook page:  

 www.facebook.com/groups/EarbudsAnonymous/



 I'm posting the links there, because some are from vendors that shall not be named on here. 
  
 --


----------



## golov17

akashs04 said:


> Thanks. So I will order 3800 with Mic only. Is there anything even better for me as next earbud? More Bass and Warm and Rumble but better clarity (not harsh though)?


 Yinman150,500


----------



## golov17

akashs04 said:


> Did anyone try JBL Tempo Earbuds: https://www.jbl.com/earbuds/TEMPO+EARBUD.html?dwvar_TEMPO%20EARBUD_color=Black
> 
> How are they?


not that good


----------



## vapman

@AkashS04 I also think you should get either Yinman 150 or Ostry kc08t.
  
@LaughMoreDaily I hear the mcdonalds big mac etc. sauces are going for sale in Canada only soon. You can set up a business trading people sauces for headphones!


----------



## Townyj

ira delphic said:


> Excellent - I have the B160 and want to know how it compares to the B320! I reached out to Blox regarding the difference and this was the reply:
> 
> 
> 
> ...







vapman said:


> Geez! and i thought the B320 had no bass...!




Going off what most people have already said. The B320 is slightly warmer sounding with better textured bass. Soundstage they are both fairly close. Mids on the B320 are amazing. The B160 sounds thinner in comparison. Takes more of a neutral sounding route, details pop easily, bass kicks in when needed but doesnt have much low end rumble. More tight textured bass.

Both compliment each other. Im done now until the CF2 surfaces


----------



## vapman

townyj said:


> Going off what most people have already said. The B320 is slightly warmer sounding with better textured bass. Soundstage they are both fairly close. Mids on the B320 are amazing. The B160 sounds thinner in comparison. Takes more of a neutral sounding route, details pop easily, bass kicks in when needed but doesnt have much low end rumble. More tight textured bass.
> 
> Both compliment each other. Im done now until the CF2 surfaces


 
 Man i guess b160 i can pass on!
 b320 is already so thin sounding to me i hardly use it! (i had fun with it when it got here but now it just drives me insane.)


----------



## Townyj

vapman said:


> Man i guess b160 i can pass on!
> b320 is already so thin sounding to me i hardly use it! (i had fun with it when it got here but now it just drives me insane.)




Its funny you find it thin sounding  the bass on it bests some of my other earbuds. I had to mess with the fit a little, now they are so full sounding and one of my favs. I wouldnt recommend the B160 at all if you find the B320 not to your liking


----------



## vapman

townyj said:


> Its funny you find it thin sounding
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Damn I gotta know what those are so I can avoid them


----------



## Townyj

vapman said:


> Damn I gotta know what those are so I can avoid them :wink_face:




Hahahaha! Good one


----------



## headjelly

vapman said:


> Geez! and i thought the B320 had no bass...!


 
 B160 has much less bass than B320 The sound signature is very different too.


----------



## Saoshyant

No B160 for me then


----------



## Yobster69

Hi all. Been reading through this thread, I'm about 60 pages from the end, but I have an urgent question. I intend to press the button on either the K's K300 or the DIY EMX50 (64ohm, the one with either the green or brown cable) and I'm hoping somebody might either post a brief comparison, suggest something else in this price range that has just turned up, or just tell me straight which is the better bud to get? I'm looking for good extended sub bass, a decent mid bass, forward but smooth mids and a good sparkle up top. 
Thanks in advance.


----------



## AkashS04

golov17 said:


> Yinman150,500


 
  


vapman said:


> @AkashS04 I also think you should get either Yinman 150 or Ostry kc08t.
> 
> @LaughMoreDaily I hear the mcdonalds big mac etc. sauces are going for sale in Canada only soon. You can set up a business trading people sauces for headphones!


 
 Both looks good and especially KC08T looks stunning but unfortunately very expensive for me. Yinman 150 is also on expensive side but I can think of it in near future. But Is Yinman durable? Is there any earbud in that range which has premium look and more premium sound  Like Flat Cable etc. Just to tell you that Monk+ is slightly bigger for me and come out every now and then.


----------



## springbay

bloodypenguin said:


> Big *AliExpress* sale coming in about a week.  Purchase can be made *March 30th*.
> 
> https://sale.aliexpress.com/__pc/7thanniversary.htm
> I am building a list of Earbud Deals on our Earbuds Anonymous Facebook page:
> ...


 
  
 There are a few interesting deals that are coming up during the 7 year anniversary, but the sellers are doing their usual thing (like the weeks leading up to 11:11) and have raised their current prices to make the price drop seem much better than what they really are.
  
 For instance the store that is selling the Qian25 at a "discounted" price during the event, usually sell the same buds for an even lower regular price. So the buds are actually more expensive during the event.
  
 The best way I know on how to keep track about this is by using the AliPrice plug-in. And if you don't want to install the plug-in, you can still use the search function at their site.
 http://www.aliprice.com/
  
 I think the best way to find good deals during the Ali events is by collecting Ali coupons.
 For instance, I got the XDuoo X3, TY Hi-Z HP650 and TY Hi-Z HP320M for a total of $165 by using $35 in Ali and seller coupons, during last 11:11.


----------



## 177261

What's the best earbuds for under £100? Among the big players with global warranty?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

springbay said:


> There are a few interesting deals that are coming up during the 7 year anniversary, but the sellers are doing their usual thing (like the weeks leading up to 11:11) and have raised their current prices to make the price drop seem much better than what they really are.
> 
> For instance the store that is selling the Qian25 at a "discounted" price during the event, usually sell the same buds for an even lower regular price. So the buds are actually more expensive during the event.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great heads up!  Thanks so much!  I had a feeling some of the prices had been raised.  Also, Aliprice is awesome, thanks for the heads up on that!

 --


----------



## mochill

Buy my RA2 and RA and get the rest of my VE stuff for free


----------



## vapman

akashs04 said:


> Both looks good and especially KC08T looks stunning but unfortunately very expensive for me. Yinman 150 is also on expensive side but I can think of it in near future. But Is Yinman durable? Is there any earbud in that range which has premium look and more premium sound  Like Flat Cable etc. Just to tell you that Monk+ is slightly bigger for me and come out every now and then.


.

Yinman is durable but my qians suffer the most abuse


----------



## noknok23

bloodypenguin said:


> Great heads up!  Thanks so much!  I had a feeling some of the prices had been raised.  Also, Aliprice is awesome, thanks for the heads up on that!
> 
> --


 
 Btw, sometimes, results on aliexpress are missing, you can use aliseeks.com, which seems to index everything. I found some earbuds a couple of euros cheaper from unknown stores. as well as other stuff that weren't showing up on the aliexpress search index.


----------



## vapman

noknok23 said:


> Btw, sometimes, results on aliexpress are missing, you can use aliseeks.com, which seems to index everything. I found some earbuds a couple of euros cheaper from unknown stores. as well as other stuff that weren't showing up on the aliexpress search index.


 
 Along with this i always check both mobile app and desktop site since you'll get different results on both.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

noknok23 said:


> Btw, sometimes, results on aliexpress are missing, you can use aliseeks.com, which seems to index everything. I found some earbuds a couple of euros cheaper from unknown stores. as well as other stuff that weren't showing up on the aliexpress search index.


 
  
 Fantastic!  Gosh, wish I had known about these sites a while back! 
  
 --


----------



## Saoshyant

BloodyPenguin One IEM I was debating for under $7 has had it's price raised to $25, with the sale being higher than the previous price.


----------



## natto

saoshyant said:


> BloodyPenguin One IEM I was debating for under $7 has had it's price raised to $25, with the sale being higher than the previous price.




Yes, I see it also, it seem like about marketing.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

saoshyant said:


> @BloodyPenguin One IEM I was debating for under $7 has had it's price raised to $25, with the sale being higher than the previous price.


 
  
  


natto said:


> Yes, I see it also, it seem like about marketing.


 
  
 I'm starting to notice that a lot of the prices were raised prior to the sale. 

 Thankfully there are those sites to track some of those prices to see if they are really good or not.


----------



## Raketen

I just accidentally put full 1W into my Asuras for like 30 secs and the drivers dont' seem to have blown, at least not obviously, good stuff lol h34r:

(p.s. **** Tidal exclusive mode overriding & forgetting previous device driver volume settings even though it uses the same volume control feature :angry_face


----------



## vapman

raketen said:


> I just accidentally put full 1W into my Asuras for like 30 secs and the drivers dont' seem to have blown, at least not obviously, good stuff lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That is something i do on a daily basis.


----------



## Raketen

vapman said:


> That is something i do on a daily basis.




On purpose doesn't count  Last time I'm buying dac/amp without a volume knob for sure.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

What's wrong with you guys? LOL.
  
 As you know, I've bought over 10 ear buds... I have them laying on a table beside me. But, none of you are talking about the AWEI ES10M, which can be found on Ali for $2.45 US in white or black right now. 
  
 Out of the box without burn in, I like these better than some of the $10 U.S. ear buds like K's 64 ohm.
  
 Keep your ears and eyes open for AWEI products!
  
 They are an amazing HIFI sound gang!


----------



## music4mhell

laughmoredaily said:


> What's wrong with you guys? LOL.
> 
> As you know, I've bought over 10 ear buds... I have them laying on a table beside me. But, none of you are talking about the AWEI ES10M, which can be found on Ali for $2.45 US in white or black right now.
> 
> ...


 
 AWEI ES10 is one of my first earbud, good value for money...but !


----------



## AkashS04

vapman said:


> .
> 
> Yinman is durable but my qians suffer the most abuse


 
 So Yinman is better that KC08T in terms of sound quality I like? Or Qian25 is good as well? Better than SHE3800?


----------



## ATi7500

akashs04 said:


> So Yinman is better that KC08T in terms of sound quality I like? Or Qian25 is good as well? Better than SHE3800?


 
 SHE3800 has a warmer sound signature than Qian25, but Qian25 is clearer. Bass is on the same level for both.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

music4mhell said:


> AWEI ES10 is one of my first earbud, good value for money...but !


 
 You left us with too much suspense. What's after the but? A photo of someone's bum?


----------



## AkashS04

ati7500 said:


> SHE3800 has a warmer sound signature than Qian25, but Qian25 is clearer. Bass is on the same level for both.


 
 Ok. And how do you compare Edifier P180 or Hi-Fi TZ 32s with 3800?


----------



## silverfishla

Here's two tweeks.  One for Monk+ and one for the **** PT15.
 Monk tweek...take a small safety pin and blunt it with some sandpaper.  Carefully enlarge the holes on the cover screen on the earhole side of the bud. Don't go too deep at all or you will probabably hit the speaker diaphragm.  I only did the side that is on the earhole because I didn't want to much airflow and figured it would be best to direct that towards the part that sits towards the earhole.  Result...a more "energetic" and forward sounding bud.  Great if you think Monk is a little tame sounding.  I figure it was worth it to do this mod since we probably all have a few pair of these around.  I will call this my Rock and Roll Monk, since now it's better suited for that.
  
 **** tweek.  Well, looking at the Monk, you can see that there are actually very few holes on the front cover.  I took that observance and applied it to the ****.  I put a piece of copper tape (I use this stuff to line guitar electronics so I had this stuff laying around) a bit off center only exposing a section of the front screen.  You would think that this much coverage would completely block the sound, but it doesn't.  What happens is that it mellows the highs and mids a bit and creates and overall (more pleasing to me) sound.  You could say, more even and well rounded.
  
 I like both of these tweeks for me.  Earbuds are tiny and very small changes can make a significant difference in sound.  So proceed with care and check the sound as you go along.  You may find your own version of these tweeks to your liking, like more or less holes on the MOnk or less coverage on the Senfers.   In any case the **** tweek is completely reversible and the Monk tweek costs nothing.   These tweeks are not night and day.   They are subtle but noticeable.  You'll have to decide if you like them or not.  Now get to it.....


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

**** PT15: I hope it doesn't sound like I'm listening to music through a copper penny.


----------



## silverfishla

laughmoredaily said:


> **** PT15: I hope it doesn't sound like I'm listening to music through a copper penny.


That's what you would think! Haha! But no, just sounds good with still great detail. The "energy" of the **** is not diminished unlike only trying to get to that sound by foams. For me, makes the Senfers actually enjoyable not just listenable.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

silverfishla said:


> That's what you would think! Haha! But no, just sounds good with still great detail. The "energy" of the **** is not diminished unlike only trying to get to that sound by foams. For me, makes the Senfers actually enjoyable not just listenable.


 
 It doesn't sound easy to find copper tape, I'm assuming it's more than copper colored? I'm intrigued! Thanks for intriguing us all!


----------



## DBaldock9

laughmoredaily said:


> It doesn't sound easy to find copper tape, I'm assuming it's more than copper colored? I'm intrigued! Thanks for intriguing us all!


 
  
 I suspect the Aluminum foil tape that's used for heating & air conditioning ducts would also work.
  
 Or, you can get Copper foil tape from Amazon - https://smile.amazon.com/Copper-Conductive-Adhesive-1inch-12yards/dp/B018RDZ3HG


----------



## silverfishla

I don't think you have to use copper tape. I used it because I had it, and it is thin has a good tack and was malleable. I'm sure you could use tape or a doubled up piece of tape. My theory on the tweek was more about redirection and sound tuning than sound reflection. .





laughmoredaily said:


> It doesn't sound easy to find copper tape, I'm assuming it's more than copper colored? I'm intrigued! Thanks for intriguing us all!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Just got notification that my *TY Hi-Z HP-32 32ohm 2.5mm Balanced Version* is in transit.

 http://penonaudio.com/TY-Hi-Z-HP-32-32ohm-2.5mm-Balanced-Version


 I'm curious to hear how it sounds to its 3.5mm brother.  Hopefully I will have it in a little over a week. 

 I'll also be adding it to my TY Hi-Z Family Review Thread:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/831374/introduction-to-ty-hi-z-earbud-family-mega-review
  
 --


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

silverfishla said:


> I don't think you have to use copper tape. I used it because I had it, and it is thin has a good tack and was malleable. I'm sure you could use tape or a doubled up piece of tape.


 
 Maybe Painter's Tape? Hmm.


----------



## luedriver

just wanted to mention that venture electronics are making candy/espresso cables with mmcx and 2 pin adapters, I don't have any reason to buy any but it would be interesing to see opinion on various earbuds like masya or mojito or **** pt15
  
  
link


----------



## golov17

luedriver said:


> just wanted to mention that venture electronics are making candy/espresso cables with mmcx and 2 pin adapters, I don't have any reason to buy any but it would be interesing to see opinion on various earbuds like masya or mojito or **** pt15
> 
> 
> link


nice


----------



## chaiyuta

luedriver said:


> just wanted to mention that venture electronics are making candy/espresso cables with mmcx and 2 pin adapters, I don't have any reason to buy any but it would be interesing to see opinion on various earbuds like masya or mojito or **** pt15
> 
> 
> link


 
 I guess that VE is planing to produce detachable earbuds soon.


----------



## noknok23

i really dislike that espresso color :// It has the merit to be different from the crowd but I don't think it fit well with most shell colours/design out there.


----------



## ATi7500

akashs04 said:


> Ok. And how do you compare Edifier P180 or Hi-Fi TZ 32s with 3800?


 
  
 I don't have the P180. The Hi-Z 32s neither. 
  
 HI-Z 32 is a must have in my opinion. Very energetic with slightly recessed mids.


----------



## ctaxxxx

luedriver said:


> just wanted to mention that venture electronics are making candy/espresso cables with mmcx and 2 pin adapters, I don't have any reason to buy any but it would be interesing to see opinion on various earbuds like masya or mojito or **** pt15
> 
> 
> link


 
 What?! Their basic cables are so cheap! I just dropped $150 on a balanced headphone cable, but he's got one for $35 AND its sexier. I wonder how it compares...
  
 I am interested in seeing how much a high quality cable would influence the sound over the standard detachable cable. The 2nd cable that came with the Mojitos actually sounded clearer over the braided one, plus it gave a little volume boost. The Yinman 600 is suppose to be smooth. Would it open up with a high end silver cable?


----------



## mochill

Now that's a great cable and price


----------



## kim7135

Regarding VE's new cables...got a question about it. Slightly off-topic, but it's still related imo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 During the upcoming AE sales, I'm eyeing on purchasing a PT15 to pair it with the new VE cables.
  
 I'm not too good with the terms and all...so was wondering: the 3.5SE cables are the typical/standard 3.5mm jack cables? I know BAL is balanced, and it won't work on my Fiio X3ii as it doesn't have a balanced output. 
  
 Help would be much appreciated!


----------



## noknok23

SE stand for single ended, aka standard 3.5mm jack


----------



## golov17

kim7135 said:


> Regarding VE's new cables...got a question about it. Slightly off-topic, but it's still related imo
> 
> During the upcoming AE sales, I'm eyeing on purchasing a PT15 to pair it with the new VE cables.
> 
> ...


----------



## kim7135

noknok23 said:


> SE stand for single ended, aka standard 3.5mm jack


 
  
  


golov17 said:


>


 
  
 Thanks a bunch, @noknok23 and @golov17! Learned something new today.


----------



## sti23

Wow, so instead of "outfit of the day", you have "earbud of the day"? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 How do you choose??


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

kim7135 said:


> During the upcoming AE sales, I'm eyeing on purchasing a PT15 to pair it with the new VE cables.


 
 Let us know if they make them sound much better. I find metal earphones sound too metallic. Lol.


----------



## AkashS04

Does Earbud Cable makes any difference in Sound Quality? If Cable is Thick or Flat Cable, then what difference it will make in Earbud Sound?


----------



## sti23

akashs04 said:


> Does Earbud Cable makes any difference in Sound Quality? If Cable is Thick or Flat Cable, then what difference it will make in Earbud Sound?


 
  
  
 I'll let the experts chime in, but my thought would be that the profile of the cable would not affect sound as much as the quality of what is inside the cable.


----------



## AkashS04

sti23 said:


> I'll let the experts chime in, but my thought would be that the profile of the cable would not affect sound as much as the quality of what is inside the cable.


 
 Hmmm.. I will wait for experts' comments too. I guess Thicker cables might have better material inside which might make difference.


----------



## SuperLuigi

Does anyone here have the Koss KSC75?  They just hit my radar and seem full of hype!  I have the monk+, qian 39, and **** pt15.  Any comparisons?  They cost a bit more than the monks so great value at $15.  I've seen on other threads that say the Koss headphones rival $100 headphones but I just cant believe that.  Thoughts?


----------



## one1speed

sti23 said:


> I'll let the experts chime in, but my thought would be that the profile of the cable would not affect sound as much as the quality of what is inside the cable.


 

 I would agree with this. Going back to my days of experimenting with amps and speakers, thinner cable can have built in resistance, which is beneficial to some drivers. Other drivers benefit for the additional bandwidth and beefier cable offers. I'm certainly not an expert, but read may threads stating that this matters and is amp / driver dependent. I'm not sure there is a hard and fast technical answer unless you have a specific set-up. My guess is that a high-quality thin cable will likely be the best solution in the case of buds, hopefully others will chime in. 
  
 However, to sti23's point above, the quality of the cable / connector is what will matter in the end.


----------



## Ira Delphic

sti23 said:


> akashs04 said:
> 
> 
> > Does Earbud Cable makes any difference in Sound Quality? If Cable is Thick or Flat Cable, then what difference it will make in Earbud Sound?
> ...


 
  
 We don't do blind or AB or ABX test here so difficult to say for certain. But like religion, it doesn't stop us from believing.
  
 I highly doubt cables, beyond a certain minimal guage make a difference. 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/486598/testing-audiophile-claims-and-myths


----------



## sti23

ira delphic said:


> We don't do blind or AB or ABX test here so difficult to say for certain. But like religion, it doesn't stop us from believing.
> 
> I highly doubt cables, beyond a certain minimal guage make a difference.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/486598/testing-audiophile-claims-and-myths


 
 That's how some of these big name companies make money though, right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  If the cable costs 10x more than others, it's gotta be good! (most everyone doesn't know me here because I'm new, but that's my sarcasm for you to recognize!)


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

superluigi said:


> Does anyone here have the Koss KSC75?  They just hit my radar and seem full of hype!  I have the monk+, qian 39, and **** pt15.  Any comparisons?  They cost a bit more than the monks so great value at $15.  I've seen on other threads that say the Koss headphones rival $100 headphones but I just cant believe that.  Thoughts?


 
 I have every one of those ear buds except for Monk+ plus 10 more Chifi buds. I wish I found the KSC75 before I spent $200.00 on Chifi ear buds because I wasted my money. Let's be honest though, the KSC75 are different, they are clip ons or can be used with a headband. But they are much superior than the 15 pairs of Chifi buds I bought.
  
 PS: I bought 2 pairs of the KSC75 plus extra pads. They are worth it.
  
 PPS: The KSC75's retail on Amazon Canada for $26.


----------



## Raketen

Love the KSC75 but my last few sets only lasted 3-4 months so I figured it was about time I stopped buying them :rolleyes: would be cool to see what VE or MusicMaker etc... could do , we are overdue for an earclip renaissance!

Since I'm already OT: looks like Shozy Stardust/BK cable can be bought seperate as MMCX replacement cable now, if you don't mind spending as much as a BK itself  It's pretty nice feeling cable but a little bit prone to kinking (on the stardust at least).


----------



## SuperLuigi

laughmoredaily said:


> I have every one of those ear buds except for Monk+ plus 10 more Chifi buds. I wish I found the KSC75 before I spent $200.00 on Chifi ear buds because I wasted my money. Let's be honest though, the KSC75 are different, they are clip ons or can be used with a headband. But they are much superior than the 15 pairs of Chifi buds I bought.
> 
> PS: I bought 2 pairs of the KSC75 plus extra pads. They are worth it.
> 
> PPS: The KSC75's retail on Amazon Canada for $26.


 
 Thanks for the response!

 I've been pretty tempted by the ksc75 for the last few weeks but i think you convinced me!  Lets be honest, they are really ugly headphones but i think they'd be great for around the house.  Maybe with the headband mod i'd consider them out of the house but still not sure.
  
 So these are pretty easily better than the PT15's in your opinion?
  
 Edit: I'm from Canada too!  Alberta!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

superluigi said:


> Lets be honest, they are really ugly headphones but i think they'd be great for around the house.  Maybe with the headband mod i'd consider them out of the house but still not sure.
> 
> So these are pretty easily better than the PT15's in your opinion?


 
 I find the headphones ugly in a good way, everyone is laughing at them but they have no clue on how good they sound. Plus there is no need to worry about being robbed for them unless the wife steals them from you.
  
 The PT15s are terribly metallic and I regret ever buying them. They might sound better with a good cable but I am not that patient.


----------



## Jupiterknight

I have had various KSC75 or KSC35's drivers for more than a decade and they do scale up when compared to much more expensive headphones I own/experienced, not saying not equal or better, but an undisputed value.. Yet, I have a very hard time using the KSC75 as an earbud....I guess my ears are too small  Is it possible there might be different thread related to the Koss drivers?  I simply can't find it


----------



## Brian Coffey

jupiterknight said:


> I have had various KSC75 or KSC35's drivers for more than a decade and they do scale up when compared to much more expensive headphones I own/experienced, not saying not equal or better, but an undisputed value.. Yet, I have a very hard time using the KSC75 as an earbud....I guess my ears are too small  Is it possible there might be different thread related to the Koss drivers?  I simply can't find it


 
@Jupiterknight http://www.head-fi.org/t/638757/koss-ksc75s-dont-forget-this-giant-killer-in-all-the-hidden-gem-hype


----------



## Frederick Wang

Blox B320 arrived in a cute little parcel. Right out of the box, I believe it's quality sound, very musical, great clarity, great soundstage, but (a big but though), it's too bright for my taste (comes from who don't feel PT15 to be bright), and I found that midrange is very discernibly not true to the sound. 
  
 ----
  
 Edit:
 Interestingly, I find it not very hard to drive, it's quite listenable from my smartphone, unlike a lot of high ohm earbuds I owned. 
  
 Edit2:
 Donut foam works well for me, the brightness significantly dimmed.


----------



## kim7135

laughmoredaily said:


> Let us know if they make them sound much better. I find metal earphones sound too metallic. Lol.


 
 I probably will be getting the earbuds only, with no cables. But I can try to compare the sound to the impressions made by the other members (although it's a very subjective thing...)


----------



## knudsen

Quote 





> Edit:
> Interestingly, I find it not very hard to drive, it's quite listenable from my smartphone, unlike a lot of high ohm earbuds I owned.


 
  
 Others find it quite hard to drive, so maybe that's why it is bright for you? Just guessing


----------



## Frederick Wang

knudsen said:


> Others find it quite hard to drive, so maybe that's why it is bright for you? Just guessing


 
 Mostly I use it with Zishan player which outputs a lot of power, it sounds bright to me out of Zishan as well as Stepdance amp, I guess it may not be the source thing.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

jupiterknight said:


> Yet, I have a very hard time using the KSC75 as an earbud....I guess my ears are too small


 
 You're right, ear buds in many ways are better. I guess I'm still trying to find my happy medium. However, these KSC75's are pretty divine. I'm also not sure if ear buds are my thing. I think I may prefer the secure seal of a IEM even though the sound quality is different.


----------



## vapman

laughmoredaily said:


> You're right, ear buds in many ways are better. I guess I'm still trying to find my happy medium. However, these KSC75's are pretty divine. I'm also not sure if ear buds are my thing. I think I may prefer the secure seal of a IEM even though the sound quality is different.


 
 IEM have a time and a place for me, it is very specific though.
  
 The earbuds I think are in line with the KSC75 in sound quality tend to start with the Asura 2 in my opinion. Stuff in the 20ish range can come close but you really have to spend over 50 to get equivalent to KSC75 quality from buds IMO.
  
 You have a lot of $ to make back in the classifieds, thats for sure.


----------



## Brian Coffey

What upscale models share a similar signature to the Phillips SHE-3800 ?


----------



## notamethlab

brian coffey said:


> What upscale models share a similar signature to the Phillips SHE-3800 ?


 
 yinman 150 & 500


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

vapman said:


> IEM have a time and a place for me, it is very specific though.
> 
> The earbuds I think are in line with the KSC75 in sound quality tend to start with the Asura 2 in my opinion. Stuff in the 20ish range can come close but you really have to spend over 50 to get equivalent to KSC75 quality from buds IMO.
> 
> You have a lot of $ to make back in the classifieds, thats for sure.


 
 I have a hard time seeing myself buy expensive ear buds... after hearing the KSC75. I'm not even sure why I started buying so many ear buds in the first place, lol. I did learn a few things though in the process, that IEMs can't emulate a lot sounds ear buds can, so that was important to learn. I will still use ear buds, actually, I'll carry a pair of IEM's and ear buds with me when I'm out and about, so I'll have access to both. 
  
 I'm mainly selling some IEM's and ear buds I have because they don't work well with the Colorful C3, they work perfectly with the Benjie S5 though. I'm a little confused why this is. It seems that the C3 prefers higher caliber headphones, while the S5 isn't quality racist against any pair of headphones, all Chifi headphones seem to sound amazing with it.


----------



## MisterMudd

superluigi said:


> Does anyone here have the Koss KSC75?  They just hit my radar and seem full of hype!  I have the monk+, qian 39, and **** pt15.  Any comparisons?  They cost a bit more than the monks so great value at $15.  I've seen on other threads that say the Koss headphones rival $100 headphones but I just cant believe that.  Thoughts?



On the Parts Express mini headband, yes they do! I have headphones over $100, and in many ways the little KSC75 matches them blow-for-blow.


----------



## SuperLuigi

mistermudd said:


> On the Parts Express mini headband, yes they do! I have headphones over $100, and in many ways the little KSC75 matches them blow-for-blow.




K I'm convinced for sure. I'm gonna go buy these right now. Found a great price on them in Canada. Than to decide on mods!


----------



## yacobx

superluigi said:


> mistermudd said:
> 
> 
> > On the Parts Express mini headband, yes they do! I have headphones over $100, and in many ways the little KSC75 matches them blow-for-blow.
> ...




I have porta sporta and ksc75. I prefer the sporta pro drivers. Idk how they are different but I've heard they are the same as ksc35.


----------



## birdman

mistermudd said:


> On the Parts Express mini headband, yes they do! I have headphones over $100, and in many ways the little KSC75 matches them blow-for-blow.


 
 I'll second this. I was listening to music through this setup when I read this post. There's nothing like them for the price, and the headband is more than worth the few dollars it costs.


----------



## DBaldock9

I can report a successful connector swap on my K's 500 v2 earbuds.
  
 I had ordered the Balanced 2.5mm TRRS model, but there was a mix-up, and they shipped the 3.5mm TRS model.
 After contacting Jim at NiceHCK, he's shipping the 2.5mm TRRS connector.
  
 Since I had already ordered some 2.5mm TRRS Ranko plugs, for assembling / modifying cables, I went ahead and installed one of those in-place of the 3.5mm TRS plug.
  
 Even before the connector swap, I was seriously impressed with the audio performance of these K's 500 earbuds.  They have amazing low Bass impact & clarity; really smooth & detailed Midrange; and clear & extended Treble.  The 2.5mm TRRS plug allows me to take advantage of the excellent balanced output of my Onkyo DP-X1 DAP.
  
 I'm looking forward to comparing them to the TY Hi-Z 650 earbuds that I'm purchasing from @vapman.  Those should be here in the next week or two.  I'll check them out as stock 3.5mm TRS, and then also swap their connector for a Ranko 2.5mm TRRS.
  
  
 Before photo (K's 500 v2, 3.5mm TRS) -
  

  
  
 After photo (K's 500 v2, 2.5mm TRRS) -


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

superluigi said:


> K I'm convinced for sure. I'm gonna go buy these right now. Found a great price on them in Canada. Than to decide on mods!


 
 In Canada!? Wow, wherre?


----------



## Saoshyant

So, I know there's love for the Yinman 500 & 150, but I never seem to see talk of the 600.  I know @vapman for one would prefer not to use the 600 due to MMCX.  Is that the main drawback for others, or is it an issue of ease of powering, cost, or just lack of talk about it that's keeping people from giving it a try?  For the $120 it'll be going for during the sale, I'm more than willing to give it a try, but just curious if there's a reason to avoid it.
  
 Then again, I don't see it outperforming the CampFred, but it's a brand I have yet to try, and the MMCX is a big part of the reason I'd like to pick it up assuming the sound is worthwhile.


----------



## noknok23

What's​ so bad about mmcx?


----------



## Saoshyant

noknok23 said:


> What's​ so bad about mmcx?


 
  
 It's entirely a preference thing.  It allows you to easily replace a cable if the cable breaks, but the connector itself can be more prone to breaking than a fixed cable depending on luck, QC, rate of swapping cables, and other factors.


----------



## Karl2009

Two questions,
  
 - Which player do you use for balanced earphoenes.
  
 - I have seen a seller that sells a PK1 diy earphones at half of the price. Anyone has experience with them? are they recommendable?
  
https://es.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-Yuin-150ohm-pk1-earphone-OFC-silver-plated-wire-transparent-film-Selling-at-a-loss/32800453611.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0%2Csearchweb201602_1_10065_10130_10068_433_434_10136_10137_10138_10060_9999_10062_10141_202_10056_10055_10054_10059_10531_10099_10530_129_10103_10102_10096_10052_10144_10053_10050_10107_10142_10051_10106_10143_10526_10529_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10078_10079_10073_10070_10122_10123_10124%2Csearchweb201603_6%2Cafswitch_1%2CppcSwitch_3%2Csingle_sort_0_price_asc&amp%3Bbtsid=d4844138-a1ed-4f94-9e75-7829a9a1f790&amp%3Balgo_expid=12e33cf2-51c4-4e48-952f-a19869f33141-4&amp%3Balgo_pvid=12e33cf2-51c4-4e48-952f-a19869f33141


----------



## knudsen

Hate it when this happens. You can't let 2 buds alone for long before they mingle all up


----------



## Raketen

noknok23 said:


> What's​ so bad about mmcx?




Since connectors rotate freely and and also retained with a button type of "snap-in" (also what looks like less contact surface but I'm not sure) there's a lot of opportunity for movement/mechanical stress. Also more difficult to clean if they become tarnished/oxidized. I've gone through three MMCX cable connectors in the past year and a half? Luckily it was all failure on the cable side not the socket side.

Not that 2-pin is perfect either... possible to accidentally reverse polarity unlike mmcx, the pin sockets also wear out, sometimes a pin will get stuck in the socket, and if the socket isn't recessed there is almost no strain relief for the pins themselves (which seems like less of a problem on MMCX thanks to coaxial shape).

Agree that it's more of a preference/usage thing. Personally If there is a removable cable I like for it to have some kind of extra retention like threaded MMCX q-Jays have or externally attached collar like the old Sony EX, JH Audio or Fiue Sirius... haven't seen any earbuds with those though.


----------



## vapman

Take a good look at this photo.
  
 That is the **** PT15 shell with the driver ripped out , next to a crappy cable I ripped off a $5 IEM i am fixing for a friend (putting it on a BT aptX wire for him)
  
 Even if MMCX didn't seal off a part of the shell that's typically left open...... even if the PT15's shell wasn't the worst designed earbud shell in the last few decades... look at those garbage wires coming off the MMCX pins. And the pins are equally as thin.
  
 Would you really knowingly spend $$$$ on a nice MMCX cable knowing it's all for nothing since the last inch or so of conductivity is still going thru literal garbage.
  
Even someone who knows nothing about audio science can plainly see how thin the MMCX wires are compared to even a CHEAPO cable.


----------



## SuperLuigi

Check out Londondrugs.  They are on sale right now for $19.  Crazy good price!


----------



## noknok23

Wow thanks saoshyant, raketen and vapman! All very instructive


----------



## nmatheis

Still loving the TY Hi-Z 400ohm. Any recommends for similar earbuds would be appreciated!


----------



## 1TrickPony

nmatheis said:


> Still loving the TY Hi-Z 400ohm. Any recommends for similar earbuds would be appreciated!




do share more impressions please! I've been a vocal fan as of late. any similar sounds?


----------



## nsk1

Anyone know buds similar with size to Shozy, Qian39 and Philips SHE3800?


----------



## golov17

nsk1 said:


> Anyone know buds similar with size to Shozy, Qian39 and Philips SHE3800?


 Hisoundaudio HSA-E351, Yuin pk1,2,3, Edimun EV3, RedDemun, Edifier h101,180,185, Sunrise Dragon2, Feeling2


----------



## AkashS04

Any list of Bassy and Warm earbuds (like 3800) with Mic which has Flat cable?


----------



## mochill

Get the 1more e1008


----------



## AkashS04

mochill said:


> Get the 1more e1008


 
 Looks good but expensive. However, Dual Driver so must be very Bassy with lots of Thumping Sub-Bass too.  Anything in Budget range?


----------



## mochill

Heavenly sounds dub


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

There is something special about the AWEI ES10 ear buds... I love the 90s feeling. I also love the big size; it's going to cut out outside noise from coming in and vs. versa. Check these large buds out! People say they don't last long. Hopefully, they're wrong.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

knudsen said:


> Hate it when this happens. You can't let 2 buds alone for long before they mingle all up


 
 Is that a police photo from the local teenager earbud crack house?


----------



## chellity

Is anyone able to compare  Rose Masya (carbon fiber) to yinman 600? or yinman 500?
  
 Since they're both available for nearly the same price on the aliexpress sale, I was really wanting to take my first step into better earbuds.  But my ears are kinda small, and I can't really fit mx500 shells that great.  Not well enough to invest in a good earbud at least. 
  
 So, I was wondering what some of the midrange options for people with smaller ears are.  Would a Masya be too big since I can't fit something like eo320s well?  How do their signatures compare, since they're both fairly monitor-like?  Would the masya isolate more since its closed in the back?


----------



## golov17

DoCoMo (donor of Shozy)


----------



## kurtextrem

chellity said:


> Is anyone able to compare  Rose Masya (carbon fiber) to yinman 600? or yinman 500?
> 
> Since they're both available for nearly the same price on the aliexpress sale, I was really wanting to take my first step into better earbuds.  But my ears are kinda small, and I can't really fit mx500 shells that great.  Not well enough to invest in a good earbud at least.
> 
> So, I was wondering what some of the midrange options for people with smaller ears are.  Would a Masya be too big since I can't fit something like eo320s well?  How do their signatures compare, since they're both fairly monitor-like?  Would the masya isolate more since its closed in the back?


 
 In a post I can't find someone measured Rose' shells and it was smaller than the Shozy/Yuin shells. So that might not be the problem.


----------



## barbazz

laughmoredaily said:


> There is something special about the AWEI ES10 ear buds... I love the 90s feeling. I also love the big size; it's going to cut out outside noise from coming in and vs. versa. Check these large buds out! People say they don't last long. Hopefully, they're wrong.


 
  
 Stock cables, in my case, last 1minute 
  
 Here's my second ES10 mod, this time for my son. Yes, I know, crappy picture. Working on that...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

barbazz said:


> Here's my second ES10 mod, this time for my son. Yes, I know, crappy picture. Working on that...


 
 Your son is going to love you even more. Does the new cable extend the sound to even better heights?


----------



## ATi7500

golov17 said:


> DoCoMo (donor of Shozy)


 
  
 What's your review?


----------



## ballog

Finally recabled both my Qian39 and Edifier H180 a few days back with semi-finished braided cable.
 The Qian39 were already nice earbuds but something in the mids (some wonkiness or whatever) was bugging me and its gone. The sound is now very balanced with very good details and better low-end. I haven't listened to the recable H180 much but they were already excellent and now seem to have improved by a certain margin (i now need to do the blutac mod in the housing). In the end very easy and worthwhile recables.
 The cables were from here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-headphone-cable-transparent-black-high-end-headphone-line-UE18-core-single-crystal-copper-wire-1/32621768744.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.jwHpQ0


----------



## golov17

ati7500 said:


> What's your review?


on the way ✈✈✈


----------



## Saoshyant

Well went back and gave the MEMT X3 another listen, and the damn metal sleeve over the jack cut me again.  I don't know what I was expecting.  It makes me apprehensive about trying the seemingly loved X5 as this is some awful QC on my pair.  For those that love the X3, are you using any EQ at all, as even a small amount of EQ made it very clear something was loose in mine.


----------



## AkashS04

How is FiiO EM3 compare to 3800?


----------



## one1speed

chellity said:


> Is anyone able to compare  Rose Masya (carbon fiber) to yinman 600? or yinman 500?
> 
> Since they're both available for nearly the same price on the aliexpress sale, I was really wanting to take my first step into better earbuds.  But my ears are kinda small, and I can't really fit mx500 shells that great.  Not well enough to invest in a good earbud at least.
> 
> So, I was wondering what some of the midrange options for people with smaller ears are.  Would a Masya be too big since I can't fit something like eo320s well?  How do their signatures compare, since they're both fairly monitor-like?  Would the masya isolate more since its closed in the back?


 

 I can't compare the Masya to the Yinman, but do have Yuins. The diameter of the driver portion of the housing is a little smaller on the Masya and I find them harder to fit. In my case, the right bud fits fairly well, but the left is finicky. If you look at them compared to the Yuins, the space between the back of the driver portion that sits in the ear, and the back part of the housing, is larger and I suspect the main cause of odd fitting. I've started messing with tape on the left driver and the fit is getting better. I find the Yuins comfortable as they are with just a donut foam. Very easy to forget you have them in.
  
 The Masya isn't actually closed, the back is ported, just differently than the Yuin type. Isolation is about the same between the two, and with music turned up a bit, both do a pretty good job of isolating, though without a totally sealed effect. To compare to my full sized Grados, I can hear more through the Grados than either of the buds when listening at about the same levels.
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## mochill

Don't forget the black edition


----------



## one1speed

mochill said:


> Don't forget the black edition


 

 No worries! Need some time with them yet.


----------



## mochill




----------



## AkashS04

ballog said:


> Finally recabled both my Qian39 and Edifier H180 a few days back with semi-finished braided cable.
> The Qian39 were already nice earbuds but something in the mids (some wonkiness or whatever) was bugging me and its gone. The sound is now very balanced with very good details and better low-end. I haven't listened to the recable H180 much but they were already excellent and now seem to have improved by a certain margin (i now need to do the blutac mod in the housing). In the end very easy and worthwhile recables.
> The cables were from here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-headphone-cable-transparent-black-high-end-headphone-line-UE18-core-single-crystal-copper-wire-1/32621768744.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.jwHpQ0


 
 DId you recabled yourself? What is required to do so and how easy to do it? Also, if Flat cables are also available for recabling? (like this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ugreen-3-5mm-audio-cable-90-degree-right-angle-flat-jack-3-5-mm-aux-cable/32608693395.html?spm=2114.01010108.3.452.XOpxJf&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10065_10068_10130_10136_10137_10060_10138_10062_10141_10056_10055_10054_10059_10099_129_10103_10102_10096_10144_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10143_10051_10526_10529_10084_10083_10119_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10517_10078_10079_10073_10070_10122_10123_10120_10124-10119,searchweb201603_1,afswitch_1_afChannel,ppcSwitch_5,single_sort_0_default&btsid=b8b18da4-00a2-47a1-90ea-2dac75cd7fbb&algo_expid=0296d28e-a533-46be-92f5-853235ab6e68-47&algo_pvid=0296d28e-a533-46be-92f5-853235ab6e68)


----------



## DBaldock9

ballog said:


> Finally recabled both my Qian39 and Edifier H180 a few days back with semi-finished braided cable.
> The Qian39 were already nice earbuds but something in the mids (some wonkiness or whatever) was bugging me and its gone. The sound is now very balanced with very good details and better low-end. I haven't listened to the recable H180 much but they were already excellent and now seem to have improved by a certain margin (i now need to do the blutac mod in the housing). In the end very easy and worthwhile recables.
> The cables were from here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-headphone-cable-transparent-black-high-end-headphone-line-UE18-core-single-crystal-copper-wire-1/32621768744.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.jwHpQ0


 
  
 I've been working on re-cabling one set of my Qian39 earbuds, as well.
 The wires are soldered to the Ranko 2.5mm TRRS, and braided / twisted.
 This evening, I'll be threading them into the earbud shells, and soldering them to the drivers.


----------



## barbazz

laughmoredaily said:


> Your son is going to love you even more. Does the new cable extend the sound to even better heights?


 
  
 I didn't have much listening time with the stock cables but I've noticed more forward mids and better bass definition. I'm waiting for my third ES10. I will have then more time to compare and let you know about the differences.


----------



## vapman

Whats up nerds.... noknok23 the homie hooked up your boy with the 650...


----------



## gobin

golov17 said:


> on the way ✈✈✈




Eagerly waiting.

I'm not in need for amymore earbuds but holy cow that discount, cable, and accessories.


----------



## barbazz

And I thought TY32 and RY4S were bassy. The new king of bass arrived today. All hail king Yincrow X6.


----------



## Brian Coffey

barbazz said:


> And I thought TY32 and RY4S were bassy. The new king of bass arrived today. All hail king Yincrow X6.


 
 Is it detailed as well ?


----------



## noknok23

vapman said:


> Whats up nerds.... @noknok23 the homie hooked up your boy with the 650...


 
 !!!!!! feedback pls-- still waiting eagerly for yours


----------



## barbazz

brian coffey said:


> Is it detailed as well ?


 
  
 Quite detailed and clear in both mids and bass. I find treble a bit harsh and less detailed, but overall is a very fun earbud.


----------



## Blueshound24

I was unsure if it were appropriate to mention my ad in the classifieds here or not, but a long time, well respected member here assured me it was ok to do that.
  
 So, in case anyone is interested, due to my preference for IEM's at this point in time I am listing my CampFreds for sale.
  
 Peace out.


----------



## PeterDLai

golov17 said:


> DoCoMo (donor of Shozy)


 
  
 I don't quite follow. How is NTT DoCoMo related to Shozy and these DIY "NiceHCK"-branded earbuds? The housing looks similar if not the same. Does NTT DoCoMo manufacture both these and the Shozy Cygnus?


----------



## ctaxxxx

Well... Got the new Cypherus Blue Darth earbuds in. Listened to them and thought they were defective and had a horrible channel imbalance. Switched channels to the other ear and still sounded bassier in the right. After a bunch of tests with different earphones and sources, I think I'm losing my hearing in the left...


----------



## noknok23

that sucks... just found out about this news few days ago, hope it will be out soon: http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2017/03/23/Gene-therapy-may-help-treat-certain-hearing-loss/4921490297394/


----------



## tinkertailor

ctaxxxx said:


> Well... Got the new Cypherus Blue Darth earbuds in. Listened to them and thought they were defective and had a horrible channel imbalance. Switched channels to the other ear and still sounded bassier in the right. After a bunch of tests with different earphones and sources, I think I'm losing my hearing in the left...





Sorry to hear that. Dont jump to conclusions though, it might not be permanent hearing loss, it could be a passing issue of sone sort, get it checked out if you can. Best of luck.


----------



## golov17

peterdlai said:


> I don't quite follow. How is NTT DoCoMo related to Shozy and these DIY "NiceHCK"-branded earbuds? The housing looks similar if not the same. Does NTT DoCoMo manufacture both these and the Shozy Cygnus?


 http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=521991351143


----------



## nmatheis

noknok23 said:


> that sucks... just found out about this news few days ago, hope it will be out soon: http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2017/03/23/Gene-therapy-may-help-treat-certain-hearing-loss/4921490297394/




Sweet! My 6yo old son has hearing issues in his left ear, so I can easily sympathize with people suffering from hearing loss. He's already on his third ear surgery...


----------



## VictorM86

Hi everyone!
  
 I've been looking at this thread for a while because i too wanted something different from IEMs.
 Does any of you guys can recommend an earbud similar to Earsonics SM64 (Warm and smooth with a clear bass).
 I bought the Zen 2.0 but it's still missing something.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## nmatheis

victorm86 said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> I've been looking at this thread for a while because i too wanted something different from IEMs.
> Does any of you guys can recommend an earbud similar to Earsonics SM64 (Warm and smooth with a clear bass).
> ...




TY Hi-Z 400ohm is warm and smooth with good bass IMHO


----------



## DBaldock9

Qian39 re-wire is finished...  (except - I installed some of the thick Black / White VE foams, after this photo) -
  

  
 Have them connected to my DP-X1, and listening to Alasdair Fraser (fiddle) & Natalie Haas (cello) on Spotify.
 Sounds really good.  Have not yet tried swapping back and forth between these and the stock set of Qian39 earbuds.


----------



## Brian Coffey

dbaldock9 said:


> Qian39 re-wire is finished...  (except - I installed some of the thick Black / White VE foams, after this photo) -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Looks real good Dave ! How do they compare to Philips SHE 3800....Sorry I can't remember if you have those or not.


----------



## DBaldock9

brian coffey said:


> Looks real good Dave ! How do they compare to Philips SHE 3800....Sorry I can't remember if you have those or not.


 
  
 I haven't heard any of the Philips earbuds, yet.
 My current inventory looks like this -
  
 01.) K's 500-Ohm v2 (2.5TRRS) - Earbud, 500Ω, 110dB/mW, 10Hz-35KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$106.65]

 02.) MusicMaker TKY2 - Earbud, 16Ω, 100dB/mW, 20Hz-25KHz, Metal housing, 2x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$88.01]

 03.) VE Asura 2.0 (2.5TRRS) - Earbud, 150Ω, 120dB/mW, 8Hz-25KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$88.00]

 04.) [on-order] Ty Hi-Z HP650 - Earbud, 650Ω, 120dB/mW, 12Hz-24KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$75.00]

 05.) [on-order] BHOBuds MAG-7 - Earbud, 32Ω, ???dB/mW, ??Hz-??KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$67.00]

 06.) Daik DK-Song - Earbud, 16Ω, 108dB/mW, 20Hz-24KHz, Wood housing, 1x Dynamic, MMCX cable [$46.95]

 07.) VE Monk Plus (2.5TRRS) - Earbud, 64Ω, 122dB/mW, 20Hz-20KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$30.00]

 08.) 1More Piston (EO303) - Earbud, 32Ω, 98dB/mW, 20Hz-24KHz, Metal housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$17.79]

 09.) **** PT15 - Earbud, 32Ω, 120dB/mW, 10Hz-25KHz, Metal housing, 1x Dynamic, MMCX cable [$15.00]

 10.) Mantis C7 - Earbud, 16Ω, 100dB/mW, 20Hz-20KHz, Metal housing, 1x Dynamic, tethered cable [$12.99]

 11.) VE Monk Plus (Coffee Gold) - Earbud, 64Ω, 120dB/mW, 20Hz-20KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered Android 3-button cable [$10.00]

 12.) QianYun Qian39 (2.5mm TRRS) - Earbud, 22Ω, 106dB/mW, 40Hz-20KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$6.13 + $46.23 (wire & Ranko 2.5mm TRRS plug)]
  
 13.) QianYun Qian39 (3.5mm TRS) - Earbud, 22Ω, 106dB/mW, 40Hz-20KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$6.13]

 14.) QianYun Qian25 - Earbud, 32Ω, 108dB/mW, 20Hz-20KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$5.91] (2 sets, one to modify)

 15.) VE Monk Plus (Smoke) - Earbud, 64Ω, 120dB/mW, 20Hz-20KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$5.00] (purchased to use as loaner)

 ~~~
 16.) Panasonic EAH-Z31 (with 1988 CD Walkman) - Earbud, 16Ω, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable
 ~~~


----------



## vapman

Left: Seahf 650                   Right: TY Hi-Z 650​  ​ ​  
  
 The difference I thought would be more like HD 600 (TY) vs HD 650 (Seahf) but it was more like AKG K701 (TY) vs Grado RS-1 (Seahf).
  

The TY 650 you can't really call laid back like the HD 600 or even 650 but it is  definitely more laid back than the Seahf.
If you know you like the more forward and aggressive sound with less delicate presentation, go for the Seahf.
The TY has a flatter FR.
Overall the sound signature is very similar and you can tell it's different tunings of the same driver.
They are both hard to drive so have either a powerful player or an amp.
The Seahf is not behind the TY in sound in any way despite having the cheaper molded plug. I thought about chopping it off but I really like the seahf logo on it, so it's staying stock =)
I like the brown more than the red.


----------



## luedriver

did anyone else get a message from nicehck about case that cost 1 cent?
  


> Dear friends, good news！
> 3.28-3.30, our store will have crazy discount!
> At this time, you shopping in our store more than $19, you can get a good case with $0.01!
> If your payment amount is greater than $19, please make order, don't pay, we modify the price of $0.01！
> ...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

After I purchased the headphones...


----------



## Saoshyant

$111 for Yinman 600, so going to take a chance. I've been curious and the 500 & 150 seem well received. I hope it goes over well.


----------



## noknok23

Is Yinman 600 hard to drive?


----------



## Saoshyant

noknok23 said:


> Is Yinman 600 hard to drive?




I'll let you know. Hopefully it won't be obnoxious to drive.


----------



## AkashS04

barbazz said:


> And I thought TY32 and RY4S were bassy. The new king of bass arrived today. All hail king Yincrow X6.


 
 How does you compare it with SHE3800? Or may be with Monk+/ EM3 etc. Also, does it come with Mic?


----------



## Ira Delphic

luedriver said:


> did anyone else get a message from nicehck about case that cost 1 cent?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 In other words a "buck case" - a $1 for 1 cent. It's more important to buy a set of earbuds that meet your listening requirments!


----------



## golov17

peterdlai said:


> I don't quite follow. How is NTT DoCoMo related to Shozy and these DIY "NiceHCK"-branded earbuds? The housing looks similar if not the same. Does NTT DoCoMo manufacture both these and the Shozy Cygnus?


 old earset for japanese phones


----------



## weedophile

Just ordered a couple of Qian39 for mods, the Yinman150 and K300 with some foams and tri flanged tips for my Hi905.

Just wondering if the Walnut has enough power to drive both the Yinman and K300 otherwise i might have to look for a dedicated amp.

Edit: I read flamesofarctica paired the K300 with the Walnut and Xduoo X3 + FiiO A3. Hence sir if u could let me know if ur nut has enough juice to power the K300? I hope mine does (pun intended lol)

Pretty excited to know how both sound like as the highest impedence bud i have now is the K64. And am out of town for a week with no time for music T.T


----------



## knudsen

Anyone experienced burn-in with Yinman 150? I got the one with brown cable... first thought was it must be broken, no mids at all. Then I found a tune with lots of space between the instruments, that sounded amazing. But its like some part of the sound is very centered, and another part is extremely large sounding, difficult to describe. 
  
 Looking forward to getting to know it, but currently its very choosy tune wise. Hopefully will experience some burn-in from either it or my ears


----------



## gc335

I'm really enjoying the portability, comfort and sound of ear buds lately.  I have a ton of VE buds and I'm looking to see that else is out there.  I'm looking at the YUIN buds.  
  
 Does anyone know how the OK1 and the PK1 compare to the Zen 2?  Better? Compliment? Other suggestions? Thanks!


----------



## CharlesRievone

weedophile said:


> Just wondering if the Walnut has enough power to drive both the Yinman and K300 otherwise i might have to look for a dedicated amp.


 
  
 Walnut V2 can drive my TY Hi-Z 650 without breaking a sweat, either on DAP or AMP mode, so it should have no problems driving those buds of yours.


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> I'll let you know. Hopefully it won't be obnoxious to drive.


Don't worry, the owners are happy, as far as I read on FB


----------



## weedophile

charlesrievone said:


> Walnut V2 can drive my TY Hi-Z 650 without breaking a sweat, either on DAP or AMP mode, so it should have no problems driving those buds of yours.




Thanks mate! Ur nuts have some serious juice and i hope mine does too!


----------



## Majin

I hope i finally found my go to earbud with mic for a low price. Ordered two pieces in case one of them breaks. Does anybody know if they sound like the TY hi-32?
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4S-original-in-ear-Earphone-15mm-music-quality-sound-HIFI-Earphone-MX500-style-earphone-3-5mm/32797581820.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_7_10152_10065_10068_10150_10136_10137_10060_10138_9999_10062_10141_203_10056_10055_128_10054_10059_10099_10103_10102_10096_10144_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10143_10051_10525_10529_10084_10083_10119_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10516_10515_10037_10033_10032_10078_10079_10077_10073_10070_10122_10123_10120_10124-10150_10152_10516_9999_10120_10033_10077,searchweb201603_1,afswitch_1_afChannel,ppcSwitch_4,single_sort_0_default&btsid=4ff070cd-f4a9-4a7f-a05c-9e7bb700a598&algo_expid=f6e8f594-c61d-411d-804f-857428642dc1-1&algo_pvid=f6e8f594-c61d-411d-804f-857428642dc1


----------



## DBaldock9

vapman said:


> Left: Seahf 650                   Right: TY Hi-Z 650​ ​​
> 
> The difference I thought would be more like HD 600 (TY) vs HD 650 (Seahf) but it was more like AKG K701 (TY) vs Grado RS-1 (Seahf).
> 
> ...




Should I recognize that set of TY Hi-Z 650?  

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## kvad

Drumming my fingers on the table, trying to figure out if I should pick up one of the higher ohm Ty Hi-Z (400SE or 650) or one of the Yinman (150, 500 or 600). Anyone able to tip the scale for me?

 I have the 150 ohm Ty Hi-Z which I find enjoyable, but I also have others like Ks 500, Mojito, Zen 2... and wondering if I'm just overlapping with what I've already got. Would the Yinman 150 be a good entry point for that family, or is the tuning wildly different between them?


----------



## vapman

kvad said:


> Drumming my fingers on the table, trying to figure out if I should pick up one of the higher ohm Ty Hi-Z (400SE or 650) or one of the Yinman (150, 500 or 600). Anyone able to tip the scale for me?
> 
> I have the 150 ohm Ty Hi-Z which I find enjoyable, but I also have others like Ks 500, Mojito, Zen 2... and wondering if I'm just overlapping with what I've already got. Would the Yinman 150 be a good entry point for that family, or is the tuning wildly different between them?


 
 How much do you love the Monk+ sound signature? If you make it massively more detailed and transparent, remove the upper midrange weirdness, otherwise leave the Monk+ sound sig intact the Seahf 650 is a better option than TY high ohm or yinman which is more in line with the She3800 than anything.


----------



## theresanarc

Got the VE Monk and it's less sibilant than the original but still a bit too sibilant for me. Also the foams that come with it seem a bit worse than the original no? Any recommendation on another cheap-ish alternative? I don't have a pre-amp yet so not that HE150 or something.


----------



## teesui

What about the Qian39?

 Also, the SHE3800 seems to have good reviews on here.


----------



## kvad

vapman said:


> How much do you love the Monk+ sound signature? If you make it massively more detailed and transparent, remove the upper midrange weirdness, otherwise leave the Monk+ sound sig intact the Seahf 650 is a better option than TY high ohm or yinman which is more in line with the She3800 than anything.


 

 ​Thanks for the pointers Vapman! Monk+ sound signature isn't my most preferred. For the most part I like something with better extension at both ends - but then again, I also love the subtleties of the Zen 2.
 Ashamed to say I haven't given the She3800 the light of day, will go dig them out if they give a good pointer towards the Yinman.


----------



## barbazz

akashs04 said:


> How does you compare it with SHE3800? Or may be with Monk+/ EM3 etc. Also, does it come with Mic?


 
  
 SHE3800 sounds hollow when compared with X6. Also sound definition is in a complete different league.
  
 Monk+ is another kind of beast. It lacks X6 bass depth, but gains in treble clarity and definition.
  
 Don't have EM3 to compare.
  
 I don't think there's a version with mic.


----------



## flamesofarctica

weedophile said:


> Just ordered a couple of Qian39 for mods, the Yinman150 and K300 with some foams and tri flanged tips for my Hi905.
> 
> Just wondering if the Walnut has enough power to drive both the Yinman and K300 otherwise i might have to look for a dedicated amp.
> 
> ...




Yes, Walnut drives K300 great :-D


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Can someone tell me how clear the K's 300 ohm's are? My 64 ohm's aren't perfectly clear. Maybe it's because they aren't burned in, but they still aren't...


----------



## Phantasia

Can somebody give me a recommendation for earbuds below $40 with sound signature like monk+ with better resolution, more airy and bigger soundstage?


----------



## rkw

noknok23 said:


> Is Yinman 600 hard to drive?


 
 Yes.
  
 I've posted about the Yinman 600 before. I love how it sounds but it requires good power. On my Jotunheim, I have to crank up the volume to almost the same level as for a Sennheiser HD650 (which is known for being power hungry). I had a hunch that the Yinman 600 might get even better from a balanced cable. I bought a balanced MMCX cable and I was right — I liked the Yinman 600 a lot already, but the balanced cable brought it up to another level. The balanced output of the Jotunheim is a serious amount of power.


----------



## nsk1

Sorry for shameless plug guys, but I got Blox B320 and Blue De'mun for sale and thought someone might be interested. More details on PM.


----------



## fairx

After long wait I finally got my qian25. Avoid SUNYOU shipping. Took over a month to arrive to Malaysia. while normal China post small packet only took 10 days. 

OOTB with supplied stick foam it sound almost like monk + with better clarity. big sound and hard hitting bass.


----------



## AkashS04

One basic question. Seems my SHE3800 is also broken as I am hearing some noise on right side. Same happened with one of the unknown earbuds (https://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/8288643060.html?orderId=79548978380002&productId=32674311412 ) which were very good with good soundstage and very good bass. They were broken too after 2 months or so. 
 
My question is, if I am using PowerrAmp and using these buds which are 16 or 32 Ohms, is it possible that they are broke down due to PowerAmp? Shall we use 64 Ohms or more earbuds for PowerAmp as nothing happened to Monk+ even till today as that is 64 Ohms. Pls suggest. As of now, I am stopping using SHE3800 with PowerAmp. As that is broken, I will now need same or better soundstage, warmness and bassy earbud (but with Mic) to use with PowerAmp. So will need your suggestion again :|
 
Is anyone using PowerAmp os experienced this earlier with any other AMP Player or device?


----------



## ATi7500

fairx said:


> After long wait I finally got my qian25. Avoid SUNYOU shipping. Took over a month to arrive to Malaysia. while normal China post small packet only took 10 days.
> 
> OOTB with supplied stick foam it sound almost like monk + with better clarity. big sound and hard hitting bass.


 
 Just as I found out in my comparative few pages ago 
  
 Qian 25 is a middle ground between Monk and SHE3800  In my opinion much better than Qian39.
  
 Whoever has Edifier H185, guys, try that little gem with double thick foam. It becomes a monster (in a good sense)


----------



## noknok23

Monk build quality is great, as good as mid to high end earbuds. That could be an explanation. Do you use a case?


----------



## AkashS04

akashs04 said:


> One basic question. Seems my SHE3800 is also broken as I am hearing some noise on right side. Same happened with one of the unknown earbuds (https://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/8288643060.html?orderId=79548978380002&productId=32674311412 ) which were very good with good soundstage and very good bass. They were broken too after 2 months or so.
> 
> My question is, if I am using PowerrAmp and using these buds which are 16 or 32 Ohms, is it possible that they are broke down due to PowerAmp? Shall we use 64 Ohms or more earbuds for PowerAmp as nothing happened to Monk+ even till today as that is 64 Ohms. Pls suggest. As of now, I am stopping using SHE3800 with PowerAmp. As that is broken, I will now need same or better soundstage, warmness and bassy earbud (but with Mic) to use with PowerAmp. So will need your suggestion again :|
> 
> Is anyone using PowerAmp os experienced this earlier with any other AMP Player or device? 
So if the above is true and we cannot use low impedence buds with AMPs, then I will need to buy something else which has sound signature like SHE3800 or even better but Monk+ does not fit in my ear properly and come out in every now and then so I will need something which has slightly smaller speakers but much bigger in terms of Bass and Warmness. I would also prefer if something with Flat cable is there. Monk+ cable tangles too much. Also, my budget is not high as always so suggest what is the best option (or options) for me?


----------



## AkashS04

akashs04 said:


> So if the above is true and we cannot use low impedence buds with AMPs, then I will need to buy something else which has sound signature like SHE3800 or even better but Monk+ does not fit in my ear properly and come out in every now and then so I will need something which has slightly smaller speakers but much bigger in terms of Bass and Warmness. I would also prefer if something with Flat cable is there. Monk+ cable tangles too much. Also, my budget is not high as always so suggest what is the best option (or options) for me?


 
 Looks like FiiO EM3 has impedence of 47 Ohms. Seems that will be good in terms of Bass + Warmness and also with Mic and they looks good too. I really don't remember how they were sounding before I returned to them after listening with iPod 7G + Samsung Phone without PowerAmp. I guess they should sound good with PowerAmp. What is your suggestion? Or any better option?


----------



## Townyj

akashs04 said:


> Looks like FiiO EM3 has impedence of 47 Ohms. Seems that will be good in terms of Bass + Warmness and also with Mic and they looks good too. I really don't remember how they were sounding before I returned to them after listening with iPod 7G + Samsung Phone without PowerAmp. I guess they should sound good with PowerAmp. What is your suggestion? Or any better option?


 
  
 What?? Do you mean poweramp the app..??


----------



## golov17

townyj said:


> What?? Do you mean poweramp the app..??


 no, he mean any buds, maybe, like Edifier h190p..


----------



## AkashS04

townyj said:


> What?? Do you mean poweramp the app..??


 
  


golov17 said:


> no, he mean any buds, maybe, like Edifier h190p..


 
 PowerAmp the App. As I am using PowerAmp to listen to the music, I am feeling that may be the reason why my two earbuds are broken. I wanted to check with you guys as you know much much more and better than me if high impedence earbuds or earphones should only be used with amplified apps or device?


----------



## AkashS04

I really like Edifier P190 (from look perspective) but 1st thing is that it is also only having impedence of 32 Ohms only and 2nd is that I heard that it has no bass at all and not a good sound signature at all. Not sure why company put "Experience Powerful Bass" on their site for this product.


----------



## Townyj

akashs04 said:


> PowerAmp the App. As I am using PowerAmp to listen to the music, I am feeling that may be the reason why my two earbuds are broken. I wanted to check with you guys as you know much much more and better than me if high impedence earbuds or earphones should only be used with amplified apps or device?


 
  
 http://powerampapp.com/
  
 Power amp is an app... Music Player. It wont magically amplify your music more than your current device can supply. You will need a proper amp to do that, it wont ruin your earbuds. Unless your listening at very high levels with your iphone 7G.


----------



## noknok23

higher impedance doesn't mean higher quality: shozy stardust is 16 ohms.


----------



## AkashS04

townyj said:


> http://powerampapp.com/
> 
> Power amp is an app... Music Player. It wont magically amplify your music more than your current device can supply. You will need a proper amp to do that, it wont ruin your earbuds. Unless your listening at very high levels with your iphone 7G.


 
 I don't listen to really high levels but it is around 60-65% volume as NY Subways are very noisy and u cannot listen to anything at low volume. But I still feel that PowerAmp might be the reason why earbuds are broken.


----------



## Ira Delphic

noknok23 said:


> higher impedance doesn't mean higher quality: shozy stardust is 16 ohms.


 
  
 There is a belief that some digital amplifers do some kind of magic. That is one of the foundations of Head-Fi so I won't argue with that. But it is a very rare individual that can tell the difference among properly designed amps/DACS. The sound is digital - there should be no coloring.
  
 People invest in expensive amplfiers, and want to use them! Using them with a low Ohm or easy to drive earbud is no fun, so there's a market for higher Ohm, less sensitive earbuds. A high Ohm earbud needs proper amping to get the most out of it. So many higher end, high Ohm earbuds need lots of clean power to really sing. 
 Compare a $30 Sansa Clip+ (a decent DAP) powered by a decent headphone amp, and compare that to a $1000+ gear. Good luck telling the difference in a properly controlled blind test using sub $100 earbuds. But objectivity take s the fun out of it anyway.


----------



## Townyj

akashs04 said:


> I don't listen to really high levels but it is around 60-65% volume as NY Subways are very noisy and u cannot listen to anything at low volume. But I still feel that PowerAmp might be the reason why earbuds are broken.


 
  
 Poweramp wont break your earbuds, its a music player app. Its like listening any other way to music, portable cd player, mp3 player etc. Your phone is the source/player. So unless they have been mistreated Poweramp wont wreck them.


----------



## zabunny94

ati7500 said:


> Whoever has Edifier H185, guys, try that little gem with double thick foam. It becomes a monster (in a good sense)



Whenever i see someone mentioning h185


Too bad that i can only fit one single thick foam in my ears though.


----------



## Ira Delphic

townyj said:


> akashs04 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't listen to really high levels but it is around 60-65% volume as NY Subways are very noisy and u cannot listen to anything at low volume. But I still feel that PowerAmp might be the reason why earbuds are broken.
> ...


 
  
 Using any earbuds on a subway? IEM's and headphones are much better suited for noisy environments. It's ridiculous to use earbuds unless a person doesn't value their hearing, since they have to be cranked up so high.


----------



## AkashS04

townyj said:


> Poweramp wont break your earbuds, its a music player app. Its like listening any other way to music, portable cd player, mp3 player etc. Your phone is the source/player. So unless they have been mistreated Poweramp wont wreck them.


 
 Did no mistreated them at all. All of a sudden SHE3800 broke down. It still works if the volume is considerably low but as soon as it hits 50%, sound cracks and I listen that noise. One thing I noticed that Sound is really bass boosted and thumping bass in PowerAmp, do you know how that comes and if I want that kind of sound effect in iPad, what needs to to? I used Rockbox but it was not good so reverted back to Apple firmware.


----------



## fairx

Qian25 mids and highs are very very good for the price. Way above the price I belive. But bass is quite tubby. at least the relax presentation of qian give it a redeeming qualities. I hope burn in or foam rolling can fix something. The bass reminds me of my first she3800. The lower mid is quite thick. Maybe thicker for my taste. but we'll see..

Also, it's quite V with slight forward mid. Dynamic and depth are just ok. much like 39

Oh and the L connector is quite bad. Need reterminate ASAP.


----------



## chaiyuta

akashs04 said:


> Did no mistreated them at all. All of a sudden SHE3800 broke down. It still works if the volume is considerably low but as soon as it hits 50%, sound cracks and I listen that noise. One thing I noticed that Sound is really bass boosted and thumping bass in PowerAmp, do you know how that comes and if I want that kind of sound effect in iPad, what needs to to? I used Rockbox but it was not good so reverted back to Apple firmware.


 
 I afraid that the problem comes from diaphragm hits the front plastic cover. Perhaps you need to change the front plastic cover that provides more space so that diaphragm can freely move.


----------



## AkashS04

chaiyuta said:


> I afraid that the problem comes from diaphragm hits the front plastic cover. Perhaps you need to change the front plastic cover that provides more space so that diaphragm can freely move.


 
 Oh. I don't know how to do that  Also not sure what is required to do so


----------



## AkashS04

chaiyuta said:


> I afraid that the problem comes from diaphragm hits the front plastic cover. Perhaps you need to change the front plastic cover that provides more space so that diaphragm can freely move.


 
 Also, it happened twice with two earbuds I mentioned (SHE3800 and one more which I provided link)


----------



## ATi7500

chaiyuta said:


> I afraid that the problem comes from diaphragm hits the front plastic cover. Perhaps you need to change the front plastic cover that provides more space so that diaphragm can freely move.


 
 could be also hair getting stuck between the plastic cover and the diaphragm. Gently blowing and pulling air might get rid of that. GENTLY.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

ira delphic said:


> Using any earbuds on a subway? IEM's and headphones are much better suited for noisy environments. It's ridiculous to use earbuds unless a person doesn't value their hearing, since they have to be cranked up so high.


 
 Amazing post! Thanks for leading us to better sounds.


----------



## AkashS04

ati7500 said:


> could be also hair getting stuck between the plastic cover and the diaphragm. Gently blowing and pulling air might get rid of that. GENTLY.


 
 Should not be the reason as I hardly have hairs  But anyway. I will blow air into the speaker and see if that works.


----------



## ATi7500

akashs04 said:


> Should not be the reason as I hardly have hairs  But anyway. I will blow air into the speaker and see if that works.




There are tiny hairs in the ear canals too


----------



## AkashS04

ati7500 said:


> There are tiny hairs in the ear canals too


 
 Anyway, I will see if this trick works. If not then might look for high impedence buds but not sure if there is any which is better  than 3800 in terms of Bass, Warmness and also comfortable. The only thing 3800 not have is Mic but its mic version is also available.


----------



## civar

majin said:


> I hope i finally found my go to earbud with mic for a low price. Ordered two pieces in case one of them breaks. Does anybody know if they sound like the TY hi-32?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4S-original-in-ear-Earphone-15mm-music-quality-sound-HIFI-Earphone-MX500-style-earphone-3-5mm/32797581820.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_7_10152_10065_10068_10150_10136_10137_10060_10138_9999_10062_10141_203_10056_10055_128_10054_10059_10099_10103_10102_10096_10144_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10143_10051_10525_10529_10084_10083_10119_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10516_10515_10037_10033_10032_10078_10079_10077_10073_10070_10122_10123_10120_10124-10150_10152_10516_9999_10120_10033_10077,searchweb201603_1,afswitch_1_afChannel,ppcSwitch_4,single_sort_0_default&btsid=4ff070cd-f4a9-4a7f-a05c-9e7bb700a598&algo_expid=f6e8f594-c61d-411d-804f-857428642dc1-1&algo_pvid=f6e8f594-c61d-411d-804f-857428642dc1


 
  
 Please share your thoughts on them. Also anyone else that has experience with that set or the RY4S please share how they would compare to another set of earbuds with mic like the UiiSii U2 or other earbuds in that range.
  
 I've seen the 1MORE E1008 get mentioned as well. As earbuds how well do they stack up against the rest? Bass, treble, etc.?


----------



## fairx

akashs04 said:


> Anyway, I will see if this trick works. If not then might look for high impedence buds but not sure if there is any which is better  than 3800 in terms of Bass, Warmness and also comfortable. The only thing 3800 not have is Mic but its mic version is also available.


I just receive qian25. Slightly bigger bass than she3800. better mids and highs. Not sure about long term quality though. And my first she3800 left driver died too. It's cheap I just bought 2 more.


----------



## AkashS04

fairx said:


> I just receive qian25. Slightly bigger bass than she3800. better mids and highs. Not sure about long term quality though. And my first she3800 left driver died too. It's cheap I just bought 2 more.


 
 So Qian25 is better than 3800 in terms of Bass and warm sound? Is it clear too?


----------



## AkashS04

fairx said:


> I just receive qian25. Slightly bigger bass than she3800. better mids and highs. Not sure about long term quality though. And my first she3800 left driver died too. It's cheap I just bought 2 more.


 
 But Qian25 does not have Mic and I want with Mic. And if possible 64 Ohms or more (if low impedence is the issue behind buds breaking).


----------



## nsk1

fairx, I think your SHE3800 isn't working right. There is no way this bud has less bass than Qian25. SHE3800 is much warmer imo.


----------



## AkashS04

nsk1 said:


> fairx, I think your SHE3800 isn't working right. There is no way this bud has less bass than Qian25. SHE3800 is much warmer imo.


 
 Mine SHE3800 also gone. Edifier P180 at $6.80 and P190 at $16.95 is available at AE. However, I am told that P190 is not at all good and have no Bass at all. Is it true? Did anyone used P190? I want similar loking bud with high impedence but warm and rumbling bassy sound. Any suggestion?


----------



## barbazz

My Walnut arrived today. It seems that I'm going to have some fun experiments this weekend


----------



## Pulpfiction

theresanarc said:


> Got the VE Monk and it's less sibilant than the original but still a bit too sibilant for me. Also the foams that come with it seem a bit worse than the original no? Any recommendation on another cheap-ish alternative? I don't have a pre-amp yet so not that HE150 or something.


 
  
 No preamp needed, it sounds really good straight from my Galaxy S4 (I9506 version) with PowerAmp and gets loud enough
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 !


----------



## chaiyuta

Does anyone own Puresound new cable 600 cores yet? I would like to know any SQ difference from standard cable.


----------



## music4mhell

akashs04 said:


> nsk1 said:
> 
> 
> > fairx, I think your SHE3800 isn't working right. There is no way this bud has less bass than Qian25. SHE3800 is much warmer imo.
> ...


 
 May i know your current inventory of Earbuds ?


----------



## teesui

Started my day browsing on Ali...and I found this new bud......Check out that cable's braiding!
  
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2017-Newest-FENGRU-Hand-Made-150-ohm-3-5mm-In-Ear-DIY-PK1-Earbud-Earphone-Flat/32804471977.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_0_10065_10130_10068_10139_10136_10137_10138_10060_9999_10062_10141_10056_10055_10054_10059_10099_129_10103_10102_10096_10052_10144_10053_10050_10107_10142_10051_10143_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10078_10079_10073_10070_10122_10123_10124-9999,searchweb201603_0,afswitch_1,ppcSwitch_5,single_sort_0_default&btsid=b3ea0fc2-9d94-40c1-96bc-7f08c78cd44c&algo_expid=8542ab28-25a8-4c07-8305-c82f68abe912-37&algo_pvid=8542ab28-25a8-4c07-8305-c82f68abe912


----------



## AkashS04

music4mhell said:


> May i know your current inventory of Earbuds ?


 
 Not much. Monk+, SHE3800 and Vrme. Out of these, Vrme is completely broken and no sound at all on right side and 3800 is having some disturbance sound on right side. However, it still works fine some time but only on low volumes.
  
 How good or bad is Edifier P180 compare to SHE3800?


----------



## AkashS04

Did anyone tried these:
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FAAEAL-3-5mm-In-Ear-HiFi-Headphones-DIY-Monitor-DJ-Headset-Alloy-Tune-Headset-64ohm-Earbuds/32779533303.html?spm=2114.13010208.cb0001.14.nOywBZ&scm=1007.13440.37933.0&amp;pvid=5c40875b-7760-4723-ac21-303a93aa5ddf&amp;tpp=1


----------



## gobin

Guys, do you know where can I buy the type of ear foam that are included with Philips SHE3800, which is thick and high quality IMO.
  
 I plan to use it for my VE MONK+, since the one included with the Monk+ is just trash. It breaks within 2 months of using exclusively in my bed...


----------



## natto

akashs04 said:


> Did anyone tried these:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FAAEAL-3-5mm-In-Ear-HiFi-Headphones-DIY-Monitor-DJ-Headset-Alloy-Tune-Headset-64ohm-Earbuds/32779533303.html?spm=2114.13010208.cb0001.14.nOywBZ&scm=1007.13440.37933.0&pvid=5c40875b-7760-4723-ac21-303a93aa5ddf&tpp=1




Balanced bit dark, good mid.


----------



## golov17

gobin said:


> Guys, do you know where can I buy the type of ear foam that are included with Philips SHE3800, which is thick and high quality IMO.
> 
> I plan to use it for my VE MONK+, since the one included with the Monk+ is just trash. It breaks within 2 months of using exclusively in my bed...


search Hiegi


----------



## gobin

golov17 said:


> search Hiegi


 
 Quite pricey and overkilled for me. 
  
 I found this but not sure about the quality. Apprently this is the best price I can get, if anyone can find a better deal, please add, thanks
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-8-pair-16-pcs-Imports-Ear-Cotton-Sponge-Earmuffs-Ear-Cotton-For-Earbuds-Earphone-Earplug/32682308224.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_0_10065_10130_10068_10136_10137_10138_10060_10062_10141_10056_10055_10054_10059_10099_129_10103_10102_10096_10052_10144_10053_10050_10107_10142_10051_10143_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10078_10079_10073_10070_10122_10123_10124,searchweb201603_0,afswitch_1,ppcSwitch_5,single_sort_0_default&btsid=54fe2acc-51a2-4cc2-8651-aa91039fec8a&algo_expid=1ac1c703-4323-487a-94f4-d1b60137a772-11&algo_pvid=1ac1c703-4323-487a-94f4-d1b60137a772


----------



## golov17

New Black 10pcs Soft Replacement Earphone Ear Pads Bud Foam Earbud Cover For Earphones headphones Headset Accessories
 http://s.aliexpress.com/FfiEJfim 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## golov17

20 pcs 18 mm Imports Soft Foam Earbud Headphone Ear pads Replacement Sponge Covers Tips For Earphone MP3 MP4 Moblie Phone
 http://s.aliexpress.com/J7NBvURb 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## golov17

10pairs Foam Ear Pads For Earphones Sponge Bluetooth Earphone Replacement Headphones Earpads Headphone Covers Eartips Earcaps
 http://s.aliexpress.com/veMbeayM 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## AkashS04

natto said:


> Balanced bit dark, good mid.


 
 Balanced so not Bassy and warm? Something like Monk+? Also, if speaker diameter is bigger like Monk+ or more like SHE3800?


----------



## AkashS04

gobin said:


> Quite pricey and overkilled for me.
> 
> I found this but not sure about the quality. Apprently this is the best price I can get, if anyone can find a better deal, please add, thanks
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-8-pair-16-pcs-Imports-Ear-Cotton-Sponge-Earmuffs-Ear-Cotton-For-Earbuds-Earphone-Earplug/32682308224.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_0_10065_10130_10068_10136_10137_10138_10060_10062_10141_10056_10055_10054_10059_10099_129_10103_10102_10096_10052_10144_10053_10050_10107_10142_10051_10143_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10078_10079_10073_10070_10122_10123_10124,searchweb201603_0,afswitch_1,ppcSwitch_5,single_sort_0_default&btsid=54fe2acc-51a2-4cc2-8651-aa91039fec8a&algo_expid=1ac1c703-4323-487a-94f4-d1b60137a772-11&algo_pvid=1ac1c703-4323-487a-94f4-d1b60137a772


 
 Looks like they are same as Monk+. I am also looking for similar foams which comes with SHE3800. Mine Monk+ foams are also torn now.


----------



## AkashS04

golov17 said:


> 10pairs Foam Ear Pads For Earphones Sponge Bluetooth Earphone Replacement Headphones Earpads Headphone Covers Eartips Earcaps
> http://s.aliexpress.com/veMbeayM
> (from AliExpress Android)


 
  


golov17 said:


> 20 pcs 18 mm Imports Soft Foam Earbud Headphone Ear pads Replacement Sponge Covers Tips For Earphone MP3 MP4 Moblie Phone
> http://s.aliexpress.com/J7NBvURb
> (from AliExpress Android)


 
  


golov17 said:


> New Black 10pcs Soft Replacement Earphone Ear Pads Bud Foam Earbud Cover For Earphones headphones Headset Accessories
> http://s.aliexpress.com/FfiEJfim
> (from AliExpress Android)


 
 Are they all similar to the one which comes with SHE3800? Looks more like the one which comes with Monk+ but if you have used, you can tell better. Also, any link of good quality but reasonably priced 3800 kind of foams in Amazon or Ebay? They will arrive much earlier.


----------



## gobin

akashs04 said:


> Looks like they are same as Monk+. I am also looking for similar foams which comes with SHE3800. Mine Monk+ foams are also torn now.


 
 Not sure they are the one we're looking for. But as far as I can tell from the pictures, it's significantly thicker than the one included with Monk+. Cuz at least it's not see-through thin on Monk+.


----------



## natto

akashs04 said:


> Balanced so not Bassy and warm? Something like Monk+? Also, if speaker diameter is bigger like Monk+ or more like SHE3800?




Not bassy and not warm, yes, similar to Monk+.


----------



## AkashS04

natto said:


> Not bassy and not warm, yes, similar to Monk+.


 
 Hmm. Monk+ are just Ok. Not bad but if they have more Bass and Sub-Bass and some thumping and also warmness and of course, slightly smaller size of speakers and slightly better quality of cable (they tangle badly), then I guess it will be huge improvement. I guess Monk+ manufacturers can upgrade it to the above level and easily cost $10-15 without any doubt and I am sure they will be able to sell them in same quantities.
  
 Are you aware of any bud with above requirements?


----------



## knudsen

And flat cable, don't forget the flat cable. And the mic


----------



## AkashS04

knudsen said:


> And flat cable, don't forget the flat cable. And the mic


 
 Yes


----------



## SpiderNhan

Anyone have any comparison or reviews of Apple Earpod clones? My brother really loves Earpods both in fit, form factor and sound and no matter now many IEMs and earbuds I try to sway him with, he keeps going back to Earpods. I have nothing against them, but $30 a pop does add up when they crap out every few months. He's gone through 4 pairs and keeps asking for more. If there are any budget clones that sound equally good, or better, I would love to send him an earpod survival kit that will last at least a couple years. Thanks!


----------



## luedriver

akashs04 said:


> knudsen said:
> 
> 
> > And flat cable, don't forget the flat cable. And the mic
> ...


 
 well I don't know how warm these are compared to others but the philips she3205 comes with mic and has flat cables, might be a bit pricey though if bought at retail price and also it shaped like earpods if that is good or bad
  
 for me they are quite pleasant sounding and have nice amount of bass but probably not basshead bass
  
 I ordered some without mic (she3200) from ebay for about 10 USD but they came in a bag instead of retail packaging
  
@SpiderNhan this could be what you are looking for


----------



## bar3336

hey guys
 what would you consider a good ear-bud for watching movies or tv shows?
  
 thx


----------



## ProLoL

bar3336 said:


> hey guys
> what would you consider a good ear-bud for watching movies or tv shows?
> 
> thx


 
 For me, the MX985 is ideal for movies/youtube, but I've heard the CAX campfred is great aswell.


----------



## Townyj

bar3336 said:


> hey guys
> what would you consider a good ear-bud for watching movies or tv shows?
> 
> thx




A cheaper earbud for movie watching is the TP16.


----------



## natto

akashs04 said:


> Hmm. Monk+ are just Ok. Not bad but if they have more Bass and Sub-Bass and some thumping and also warmness and of course, slightly smaller size of speakers and slightly better quality of cable (they tangle badly), then I guess it will be huge improvement. I guess Monk+ manufacturers can upgrade it to the above level and easily cost $10-15 without any doubt and I am sure they will be able to sell them in same quantities.
> 
> Are you aware of any bud with above requirements?




Have you ever tried Qian25 or Qian39? If not, I'm recommended.


----------



## luedriver

bar3336 said:


> hey guys
> what would you consider a good ear-bud for watching movies or tv shows?
> 
> thx


 
 ty hi-z hp-650, shozy cygnus (maybe), auglamour rx-1 (if you like the sound sig)...


----------



## Raketen

I've been using Asura 2 for games/tv, seems to do pretty well.


----------



## bar3336

luedriver said:


> ty hi-z hp-650, shozy cygnus (maybe), auglamour rx-1 (if you like the sound sig)...


 
 thx guys...
 I ordered the zen 2.0, and hiz-650, also qian39
  
 i listen to some music but also watch lots of movies and tv
  
 so the hiz-650 would be good for movies?
  
 am amazed from the quality of the VE MONKS+ - currently thses are my only pair - can't believe those small things can produce sound as good as full sized cans...
  
 by the way...have lots of foams for the VE monks - which one is better to use with?
  
 also the zen 2.0 and hiz-650 need amping right? i have the fiio a3 also a tube amp - need to experiment some...
  
 you guys have some tips recommendations?


----------



## luedriver

bar3336 said:


> so the hiz-650 would be good for movies?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I use the hp-650 as is, have tried monk plus thin foams, donuts, still use them "naked"
  
 I think they are my most "realistic" earbuds that I have, the cheaper sennheisers that I have also sound pretty "realistic"
  
 I would love to test them with a tube amp, perhaps to give it a bit of warmth,
  
 I have also watched a movie from a mp3 player with them so I don't think they are hard to drive,
  
 I have read the zen 2.0 are way harder to drive and kinda picky on amps, but have no real experience with them


----------



## bar3336

luedriver said:


> I use the hp-650 as is, have tried monk plus thin foams, donuts, still use them "naked"
> 
> I think they are my most "realistic" earbuds that I have, the cheaper sennheisers that I have also sound pretty "realistic"
> 
> ...


 
  
 so what would be a general all around best ear-bud? the hp-650? good for music and movies? what is considered the best ear-bud? is there such a thing?


----------



## kartik7405

Yes fiio a3 and tube amp will be fine;as earbuds are more efficient compared to fullsize cans.
 Ty 650 is good for movies having good soundstage.
 RX-1 is compressed sound with forward vocal;so not recommanded.
  
 i have one more suggestion like Toneking TY2.i Auditioned once;its like theatre experience with less bass.
 its a good option.If you have bigger ear .Housing size is slightly larger than normal mx500 housing.
 i checked Amazon.co.jp ;where some people mentioned when a rubber ring is used ;it will increase the bass further.
  
 Hope it helps.


----------



## bar3336

kartik7405 said:


> Yes fiio a3 and tube amp will be fine;as earbuds are more efficient compared to fullsize cans.
> Ty 650 is good for movies having good soundstage.
> RX-1 is compressed sound with forward vocal;so not recommanded.
> 
> ...


 
 so i'm a newbie to earbuds...but from what i read here...the k's 500, zen 2.0, ty650 are the best earbuds? there are more recommendations?


----------



## kartik7405

bar3336 said:


> so what would be a general all around best ear-bud? the hp-650? good for music and movies? what is considered the best ear-bud? is there such a thing?


 
 It would be good;if you order VE Zen black 2.0 this is the end game.
 Some good earbuds are also manufactured by Cypherus Audio;indonesia.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/826036/cypherus-audio-products-discussion-thread-campfred-earbuds-qfred-earbuds-and-cax-golden-reference


----------



## bar3336

prolol said:


> For me, the MX985 is ideal for movies/youtube, but I've heard the CAX campfred is great aswell.


 
 how much do they cost? the mx985 are no longer manufactured right? CAX campred?


----------



## bar3336

kartik7405 said:


> It would be good;if you order VE Zen black this is the end game.
> Some good earbuds are also manufactured by Cypherus Audio;indonesia.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/826036/cypherus-audio-products-discussion-thread-campfred-earbuds-qfred-earbuds-and-cax-golden-reference


 
 ordered the ve zen 2.0 standard, also like i said the hp-650, and the k's 500, the Cypherus Audio ones - how do you buy them? they only have a facebook page? probably cost more right?


----------



## kartik7405

bar3336 said:


> ordered the ve zen 2.0 standard, also like i said the hp-650, and the k's 500, the Cypherus Audio ones - how do you buy them? they only have a facebook page? probably cost more right?


 
 Pm mr- cypherus by email:-cypherusaudio@*gmail*.com "or" PM Via head-fi :- http://www.head-fi.org/u/157530/cyperus
  
 Btw they have many top of the line product with different sound signature.Campfred cost around 160$.The old batch is OOS and new batch are in production and will be available later.Ask cyperus for more info.


----------



## Townyj

Looking at selling my Crow Audio Ravens, the fit has been nagging me slightly due having a stiff sort of cable. If anyone is interested feel free to PM me.


----------



## vapman

bar3336 said:


> how much do they cost? the mx985 are no longer manufactured right? CAX campred?




A little silly to use a out of production totl bud and a currently made $150~ mod for youtube and movies!

There are plenty of sub $10 buds that are really equally competent especially at non music. Remax 303 or qian39 for example.


Ty 650 is great if you like a laid back and neutral sound

Seahf 650 is better if you like a little kick in the sound.


----------



## Ira Delphic

vapman said:


> bar3336 said:
> 
> 
> > how much do they cost? the mx985 are no longer manufactured right? CAX campred?
> ...




Agreed. Those earbuds are overkill for movies and TV. For watching streamed content the audio is usually compressed significantly. Any budget bud is adequate and a mechanical volume control like the one made by koss is highly desirable.


----------



## bar3336

I was looking for a all around bud, both for movies and tv and for music, but in your opinion a budget bud like monk+ or qian39 will be good enough for tv?


----------



## vapman

bar3336 said:


> I was looking for a all around bud, both for movies and tv and for music, but in your opinion a budget bud like monk+ or qian39 will be good enough for tv?


 
 they're both good enough for me for music much of the time, and i am very picky, so yes they're good for tv 
  
 but i won't recommend monk for tv, as i think it makes vocals without music present sound a little weird. i would lean towards qian39, she3800, something like that... don't be fooled by the low prices.
  
 I love my seahf 650 but when people say it needs some SERIOUS amping they ain't lying. It is just a bad choice for TV if not only because of the price but also because they just can't get loud enough without an amp most sources.


----------



## noknok23

nice to hear you enjoy the seahf


----------



## boblauer

I agree with Vapman on totl buds for tv/movies is a bit overkill. For spoken word, audio books etc I like TP16 cable is light and flexible, vocals good its under $20 everywhere. My current fab for music is the Zen 2.0, if someone would like to loan a different total I'm open to comparisons


----------



## Saoshyant

Honestly I'm not entirely unopposed to using more expensive earbuds for movies if you have them.  For kind of mid to upper cost, I like the Maysa due to a reasonable bass and great vocals, making it a very engaging experience.  For budget range I've been using Mantis Q6, although I need to find something for them for a better seal, as they use the earpod design.


----------



## Raketen

idk... why not use TOTL earbuds for movies? esp... considering how much some people invest in home theater setups. Some movies have great sound design also or hinge around their soundtrack like Arrival.

Actually I was just remembering Audio Technica CM707 and it might be cool for movies, Of the earbuds I've had it's the one that made me feel like sounds were sometimes coming from outside the earbud the most, I remember that catching me off guard occasionally while playing some games with positional audio, though IIRC it's a little bass light compared to Asura 2 I'm using now.


----------



## bar3336

Ok... Am officially confused as to what headphones to use for tv and movies... I understand that high end buds are for music... Need budget buds for movies, but which ones are tge best for that purpose? Monks are no good for that? Qian39 are ok? Something else?


----------



## Raketen

bar3336 said:


> Ok... Am officially confused as to what headphones to use for tv and movies... I understand that high end buds are for music... Need budget buds for movies, but which ones are tge best for that purpose? Monks are no good for that? Qian39 are ok? Something else?




If you ordered Zen might be getting some monks already. I got a set with my Asura at least (zen 2 I got used so no idea...).


----------



## bar3336

Monks are good for tv in your opinion?


----------



## boblauer

Monks are fine for TV/audio books, I prefer the TP16 for that and Monks for music. Just IMO. Both are inexpensive per your request.


----------



## fairx

Ty 32 for my TV watching. whether it's anime or dorama or movies. I hate to use my ty 320 although it's superior because of high impedance. ty 32 is cheap and reliable. Hooked to my TV via superlux extension cable and small amp. all set up. Ty 32 and 320 give sound a better center depth and distance out of all my earbud. . IMHO


----------



## flamesofarctica

raketen said:


> If you ordered Zen might be getting some monks already. I got a set with my Asura at least (zen 2 I got used so no idea...).




Yep I got 3 with my Zen 2, 2 smoke and 1 Darth :-D



fairx said:


> Ty 32 for my TV watching. whether it's anime or dorama or movies. I hate to use my ty 320 although it's superior because of high impedance. ty 32 is cheap and reliable. Hooked to my TV via superlux extension cable and small amp. all set up. Ty 32 and 320 give sound a better center depth and distance out of all my earbud. . IMHO




I've just set up similar earlier today using one of my Walnuts as amp. Planning to try a rotation of my lesser used earbuds


----------



## bar3336

Aren't the monks+ similar to the ty32?


----------



## Frederick Wang

Hey guys, just wanna share something I came across:
  

 Sharp 1bit earbud (balanced with extension cable)
 I must say this is the best 5 bucks I ever spent in this hobby.


----------



## Ira Delphic

Where did you buy the Sharp 1bit?


----------



## Frederick Wang

ira delphic said:


> Where did you buy the Sharp 1bit?


 
 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z0k.6846577.0.0.Ys7M1f&id=36780821252&_u=t2dmg8j26111
  
 Also, found someone selling them on ebay:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARP-1-Bit-4-Poles-Earphones-Monster-3-5mm-iCablelink-Headphones-iPhone-Adapter-/390942638068


----------



## flamesofarctica

bar3336 said:


> Aren't the monks+ similar to the ty32?




Almost directly opposite IMO.. Also in that people who put the Monks near the top of their budget list generally complain the TY32 is harsh, whereas those who love the TY32 bemoan a lack of sub bass and overall clarity in the Monk+.

Monk+ - laid back, reasonable bass, rolled off treble, nice for vocals and good for classic rock / metal. Scales up well when amplified and can sound really impressive for its price. Probably not first choice for movies etc though. 

TY32 - more extended in both sub bass and treble, some (me!) can find it harsh. More forward sounding. I'm guessing these would be better for some styles of music but I don't really like them for my own music tastes (unlike the TY HP320 which is pretty awesome for metal). Although I don't like these for music and prefer the Monk+, the TY 32 sound better than the Monk for movies I'd say.


----------



## bar3336

Ok... But specifically for tv/movies which one will u prefer?


----------



## flamesofarctica

bar3336 said:


> Ok... But specifically for tv/movies which one will u prefer?




I edited my post to add that bit, and then spotted you asked.. For TV/movies, the TY HP32 beats the Monk+ hands down, even though I personally think the opposite when it comes to music. Certainly if you're talking movies with a Danny Elfman soundtrack! (Just watching Batman :-D)


----------



## bar3336

Is it the best bud for movies? 
What is the best all rounder bud? So many buds to choose from... My head is spinning


----------



## flamesofarctica

bar3336 said:


> Is it the best bud for movies?
> What is the best all rounder bud? So many buds to choose from... My head is spinning




Leave now! It'll be safer and cheaper in the long run :-D

But honestly, you're not going to find a single option everyone has even tried, never mind agrees on.

For music, it really depends on your preferred sound, equipment, what style of music you like, will you be using an amp etc.

For movies, whether the same earbuds will suit, will depend.

Good thing is, there are lots of good budget earbuds out there now, so you can use them to find your preferences.The Monk+, SHE3800, TY32, Qian 25 and RY4S for example, you could buy all 5 and it would be far less than one mid priced earbud.

And Id be surprised if you didn't find at least 1 you love and a couple you like. I just can't guarantee which, because of variance in equipment, tastes and even the shape of your ears!

When it comes to best...

The Zen 2 is my closest to TOTL and it sounds stunning with some music, but doesn't suit other music, where I will prefer the Asura 2, TY HP320 or TY HP400S as applicable. But where the Zen 2 sounds good, when its quite vocal-focussed music for example, nothing I have beats it.

My next most expensive after the Zen 2 is the TY HP650. But even though it sounds gorgeous and detailed, close to faultless even, I haven't yet identified a music style where I prefer it over one of the others, so oddly it's had less use than any of the above.

Confusing, this earbuds lark.


----------



## bar3336

Hehehe... Yes it is confusing.. By the way i just watched an episode of "The Americans" using the monks+ and it was very nice... Strangley it needed a little more amping from my tube amp than my full size 32oms cans... But the dialogs where very clear and everything was very detailed.. I enjoyed them alot... Hard to believed that a 5 dollar bud can offer such sound... What makes me think how will the zen 2.0 and ty 650 i ordered will sound like...


----------



## flamesofarctica

bar3336 said:


> Hehehe... Yes it is confusing.. By the way i just watched an episode of "The Americans" using the monks+ and it was very nice... Strangley it needed a little more amping from my tube amp than my full size 32oms cans... But the dialogs where very clear and everything was very detailed.. I enjoyed them alot... Hard to believed that a 5 dollar bud can offer such sound... What makes me think how will the zen 2.0 and ty 650 i ordered will sound like...




Based on a brief experiment with my TY HP650, pretty good. As in, very :-D

Edit - forgot how good these sound generally, I need to give them more play time.


----------



## chinmie

townyj said:


> Looking at selling my Crow Audio Ravens, the fit has been nagging me slightly due having a stiff sort of cable. If anyone is interested feel free to PM me.


 
 how do the raven compared to the diomnes, edimun and the red demun?


----------



## weedophile

bar3336 said:


> Hehehe... Yes it is confusing.. By the way i just watched an episode of "The Americans" using the monks+ and it was very nice... Strangley it needed a little more amping from my tube amp than my full size 32oms cans... But the dialogs where very clear and everything was very detailed.. I enjoyed them alot... Hard to believed that a 5 dollar bud can offer such sound... What makes me think how will the zen 2.0 and ty 650 i ordered will sound like...




Mate, like what flamesofarctica said, everyone have their own preference for sound and setup at home or for portable use. Even ur design of the ear canals alters the experience of listening hence it u enjoy the Monk+, just stick with it and leave this thread.

Not to chase u away but the more u read, i can guarantee u will end up with *many* buds for ur movies / TV, just saying


----------



## bar3336

I see what you mean... All in all the monks are great, just lacking a bit of bass, thank you all for all your help


----------



## Spider fan

bar3336 said:


> I see what you mean... All in all the monks are great, just lacking a bit of bass, thank you all for all your help


 

 I like the qian 25 for tv/movie streaming. I think they are very natural sounding.  Plus,  They have stronger mids than the qian 39 for better dialogue and more bass than the monk+ for added foundation and dynamics.  I just ordered two more for backups.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I just got back from a week vacation in *Hallandale Beach, Florida*.

 Brought a few of my earbuds with me:


  

  
 --


----------



## BloodyPenguin

It is also quite nice to come home from paradise to find two interesting budget earbuds waiting for you: The *Colarad C01* and the *TY Hi-Z 32 2.5mm Balanced*.
  

  
 --


----------



## nmatheis

frederick wang said:


> Hey guys, just wanna share something I came across:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Those are the buds that came with my Sharp DR7 portable minidisc player back in the day


----------



## notamethlab

bar3336 said:


> I see what you mean... All in all the monks are great, just lacking a bit of bass, thank you all for all your help



Try the she3800, qian39 or yinman 150


----------



## Townyj

chinmie said:


> how do the raven compared to the diomnes, edimun and the red demun?


 
  
 I take it back... they arent for sale now.  Changed to donuts and man oh man they are awesome!! 
  
 Would put them around the Diomnes in performance... slightly higher than the Demun and Edimun.


----------



## weedophile

Anw just to check if anyone recabled their TY32? I was thinking abt it but the cables seem to be kinda solid like the Monk+ if not better.


----------



## bar3336

The she3800 are in ear? Where do you buy then from? Are they good?


----------



## weedophile

bar3336 said:


> The she3800 are in ear? Where do you buy then from? Are they good?




U can get it from fasttech. Price to performance wise i would say its super worth it though it goes the same for the Monk+, Qian39, TY32, Awei ES10.


----------



## bar3336

If i already have the monk+ and ty32, do i really need the she3800?


----------



## knudsen

knudsen said:


> Anyone experienced burn-in with Yinman 150? I got the one with brown cable... first thought was it must be broken, no mids at all. Then I found a tune with lots of space between the instruments, that sounded amazing. But its like some part of the sound is very centered, and another part is extremely large sounding, difficult to describe.
> 
> Looking forward to getting to know it, but currently its very choosy tune wise. Hopefully will experience some burn-in from either it or my ears


 
  
 Just want to say I've found out my yinman 150 are out of phase using
  
 http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php
  
 Hopefully I'm right in that the in-phase examples should be more focused than out-of-phase. That's the case with my other buds, but its the opposite with the yinman.
  
 Probably a beginners mistake not recognizing that right away, but now I know how it sounds
  
 Of course I'll ask seller for another pair, but have anyone succesfully opened them? I can't open the jack with my fingers alone, and at the bud end I'm a little afraid if the cable can enter the bud if I pull the front off


----------



## luedriver

ira delphic said:


> Agreed. Those earbuds are overkill for movies and TV. For watching streamed content the audio is usually compressed significantly. Any budget bud is adequate and a mechanical volume control like the one made by koss is highly desirable.


 
  


vapman said:


> A little silly to use a out of production totl bud and a currently made $150~ mod for youtube and movies!
> 
> There are plenty of sub $10 buds that are really equally competent especially at non music. Remax 303 or qian39 for example.
> 
> ...


 
 when I think of movies I think of bluray, totl earbuds are not overkill for blurays, I would love to experience them even with stax
  
 then again I am the sort of guy who would watch vhs with stax, let alone master audio of a bluray


----------



## luedriver

frederick wang said:


> Hey guys, just wanna share something I came across:
> 
> 
> Sharp 1bit earbud (balanced with extension cable)
> I must say this is the best 5 bucks I ever spent in this hobby.


 
 found some on ebay, if that is they are the same


----------



## Frederick Wang

Looks like the same to me.

They are like the original monk with better clarity which I have always been searching for.

They performs way way higher than the current price may suggest.


----------



## weedophile

bar3336 said:


> If i already have the monk+ and ty32, do i really need the she3800?




Good question. I can only say its a different experience in itself lol


----------



## ozkan

frederick wang said:


> Looks like the same to me.
> 
> They are like the original monk with better clarity which I have always been searching for.
> 
> They performs way way higher than the current price may suggest.




Is it safe to order from Taobao and how will I order it?


----------



## bar3336

What the hell are totl buds?? Top of the line? Guess i answered my self lol


----------



## bar3336

Guys, currently i have only the monks... But even they sound great... Do the zen 2.0, ty650 and etc' can compete sound wise with totl full size cans like hd600 or akg702 or whatever? Is it possible?


----------



## axtran

Any recommendation on where to get 3.5mm female to 2.5mm male adapters of quality? I can't seem to find any


----------



## chinmie

townyj said:


> I take it back... they arent for sale now.  Changed to donuts and man oh man they are awesome!!
> 
> Would put them around the Diomnes in performance... slightly higher than the Demun and Edimun.




the funny thing is, even though the diomnes might perform better, but i keep coming back to the demun and (especially) the edimun more often... they seems more energetic and fun. the diomnes is awesome though.. these three are definitely a keeper


----------



## bar3336

What are those earbuds you're talking about?


----------



## Frederick Wang

ozkan said:


> Is it safe to order from Taobao and how will I order it?


 
 Sorry cannot be of help, I have no experience ordering from Taobao outside of China. 
  
 But there is an American seller on ebay:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARP-1-Bit-4-Poles-Earphones-Monster-3-5mm-iCablelink-Headphones-iPhone-Adapter-/390942638068


----------



## Frederick Wang

er4b is now my daily IEM, but for this Cantonese pop rock I'd choose Sharp earbud any day of the week.


----------



## WhiteNightCrow

townyj said:


> I take it back... they arent for sale now.  Changed to donuts and man oh man they are awesome!!
> 
> Would put them around the Diomnes in performance... slightly higher than the Demun and Edimun.




Have you tried using the chin strap, that little black round tube above the splitter?
I thought that might help to tame the cable a little.,


----------



## bar3336

Can totl earbuds sound just as good as totl full sized cans?


----------



## mochill

Seahf 150ohm now available on Amazon in black with black braided cable.


----------



## mochill

bar3336 said:


> Can totl earbuds sound just as good as totl full sized cans?


they can be better in the long run because of size and sound as well as price


----------



## silverfishla

I'm not sure if they can. Totl in the headphone world is outrageous. That being said, I actually enjoy the Rose Mojito and Masya more than say HD650 Senn's because of what I consider a more realistic vocal intimacy. Maybe it's the way buds sit right on the outside of your ear hole.


----------



## mochill

Puresounds ps600 balanced has wonderful midrange


----------



## ctaxxxx

silverfishla said:


> I'm not sure if they can. Totl in the headphone world is outrageous. That being said, I actually enjoy the Rose Mojito and Masya more than say HD650 Senn's because of what I consider a more realistic vocal intimacy. Maybe it's the way buds sit right on the outside of your ear hole.




They also go up to thousands of dollars. I think earbuds are a great low cost alternative into audiophile territory. I just got some Focal Elears, and I would say they are Shozy BK on steroids. Punchy, detailed, yet smooth. Also $150+ vs $1K in price. That's not including the amp and dac it takes to show the Elear's potential.


----------



## 1TrickPony

ctaxxxx said:


> They also go up to thousands of dollars. I think earbuds are a great low cost alternative into audiophile territory. I just got some Focal Elears, and I would say they are Shozy BK on steroids. Punchy, detailed, yet smooth. Also $150+ vs $1K in price. That's not including the amp and dac it takes to show the Elear's potential.




question for you, what's your top 5 earbud right now?


----------



## PureSounds-cn

bar3336 said:


> I was looking for a all around bud, both for movies and tv and for music, but in your opinion a budget bud like monk+ or qian39 will be good enough for tv?



Try ps100-600


----------



## ctaxxxx

1trickpony said:


> question for you, what's your top 5 earbud right now?




I feel like I haven't heard enough earbuds to give an objective ranking. But I've liked Cypherus earbuds and Shozy above the others. Would like to hear one of the 600 ohm buds and still waiting until I get one of TOTL buds - Zen 2.0 Black or CAX Black. 

I saw someone selling a Zen 2.0 Black, but not sure if I want to bite, since I did not like the Zen 2.0.


----------



## gobin

ctaxxxx said:


> I feel like I haven't heard enough earbuds to give an objective ranking. But I've liked Cypherus earbuds and Shozy above the others. Would like to hear one of the 600 ohm buds and still waiting until I get one of TOTL buds - Zen 2.0 Black or CAX Black.
> 
> I saw someone selling a Zen 2.0 Black, but not sure if I want to bite, since I did not like the Zen 2.0.




I've been wondering what are the differences between Zen 2 black version and normal one, beside the cable that justify for it almost double price tag.


----------



## Raketen

gobin said:


> I've been wondering what are the differences between Zen 2 black version and normal one, beside the cable that justify for it almost double price tag.




Pretty sure Lee said it's just the cable (I guess the jack as well, Oyaide which are like $15 on their own) and driver is the same. It is Cardas cable which is crazy expensive, and AFAIK pretty hard to obtain except in bulk which would require a not insignificant outlay.

I'm probably among the least likely people who would ever consider buying Black Edition, but reckoning how much some business charge for custom cables and recabling jobs, this price probably isn't so out of line. I seem to remember that some AE stores were already straight up selling recabled Zen before VE offered the option, guess there is some demand for it.


----------



## boblauer

Warranty is also life time on black edition as well I believe


----------



## KcLKcL

theKube earbuds (earKube 1.0) + theKube DAP

I heard this is a Singaporean company and manufactured in Indonesia.

The earbuds sounds REEAAALLYYY GOOOD for the price. These reminds me of Seahf 32.

Short impression: big bass impact, clear mids.

I have no reason to use my TY HI-Z 32 anymore.. HI-Z's vocals are too dry and this earbud fixed it. Though the Hi-Z have a better treble extension I think. Maybe I could tighten the bass a bit by recabling.. I think I'll get one more pair for experimenting (the earbud only, without DAP, sells for like $5)

I paid $10 including shipping for this thing. Got this in a local shop in Indonesia.

Haven't tried the DAP, need to find a MicroSD lol
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Sent from my Redmi 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## BloodyPenguin

kclkcl said:


> theKube earbuds (earKube 1.0) + theKube DAP


 
  
 I've been searching on how to buy one of these in the USA.  Great stuff.  I must try one.
  
 --


----------



## PeterDLai

frederick wang said:


> Hey guys, just wanna share something I came across:
> 
> 
> Sharp 1bit earbud (balanced with extension cable)
> I must say this is the best 5 bucks I ever spent in this hobby.


 
  
I came across an interesting article that talks about these earbuds. This guy says that they sound nearly identical to the Sennheiser MX300.
  
 I'm curious to know how it fares against modern budget earbuds, but am not sure if I want to live with having to use an adapter (which looks sort of stiff and awkward to use with right-angled plugs) and the fact that it uses a J-cord.


----------



## ld100

ctaxxxx said:


> They also go up to thousands of dollars. I think earbuds are a great low cost alternative into audiophile territory. I just got some Focal Elears, and I would say they are Shozy BK on steroids. Punchy, detailed, yet smooth. Also $150+ vs $1K in price. That's not including the amp and dac it takes to show the Elear's potential.


 
  
 I wish I could pull Elears now... That's a nice one!


----------



## Raketen

kclkcl said:


> theKube earbuds (earKube 1.0) + theKube DAP
> 
> I heard this is a Singaporean company and manufactured in Indonesia.
> 
> ...




That looks like an awesome small screenless dap, looking through the website it seems it even has EQ presets!


----------



## ProLoL

Woah.. the Ty Hi-Z 650 changed quite a bit after burn in... at first I thought meh.. and now they're really good!


----------



## Frederick Wang

I never listened to mx300, but according to some description, mx300 has "insufficient treble and bass can be bloated." This is not the case with Sharp 1bit. Though it does not have top notch refinement, its treble and bass are both quite nice. To my ears its apparent shortcomings are warmth in midrange and sibilance.


----------



## bar3336

How do you perform a burn in? You just listen for a couple of days waiting for the sound to change?


----------



## ProLoL

bar3336 said:


> How do you perform a burn in? You just listen for a couple of days waiting for the sound to change?


 
 Couple of weeks in my case cause I've been switching between the MX985 and the TY Hi Z.
  
 Without a great source Idk how people can enjoy their potential..


----------



## bar3336

Which one is better? Can you compare to other totl buds?


----------



## kartik7405

bar3336 said:


> Which one is better? Can you compare to other totl buds?


 
 i suggest you do not be in hurry.Whatever buds you ordered wait till you received it.
 After that share your view about ty,zen and k's 500 ;so that members will help you better.
 As each member have different views about their totl buds.
  
 Thanks.Hope it will be useful.


----------



## bar3336

It is helpfull, and you are right


----------



## ProLoL

bar3336 said:


> Which one is better? Can you compare to other totl buds?


 
 I can say briefly, the natural sound + sound stage / imaging / seperation of the mx985, takes me to places, drawing me a story in my head when my eyes are closed.
  
 The Ty Hi Z 650 have a more "fun" sounding and reminds me why I got in love with each track in my collection which the MX985 isn't able to do.


----------



## Saoshyant

@bar3336 I'll have to agree with not rushing in.  As I don't know your headphone experience, I'd usually recommend starting at the budget range to get an idea on preferred sound, then assuming you do decide you're a fan of earbuds, continue up the path and keep experiencing what's offered, but take your time on the journey as even with the relatively inexpensive format it can add up.  If I remember you ordered the Zen 2, which is a phenomenal earbud which pleases most, so you should hopefully be happy with it.


----------



## bar3336

Yes, i have the ve monks+ which is amazing to my ears... And i come from listening to the senn hd600 and akg k702... I was blown away as to how such small button like buds that cost 2 pennies and are super comfortable can create such sound... So i was like a mad man searching for higher ranked buds to see how would those sound... So ordered the k's 500, zen 2, ty650... And i'm not even such of a music listener... More like a tv/movie kind of guy... A casual music listener...


----------



## bar3336

My main issue with full sized cans is the comfort, have a big head and ears, and most cans hurt my head after 30 minutes.. Those buds don't... My only concern is to if they can measure up to the sound quality of full sized cans, from what i understand they can't reproduce the same bass level right?


----------



## Saoshyant

It's certainly a bass light design.  What full sized cans are you experienced with?


----------



## kartik7405

bar3336 said:


> from what i understand they can't reproduce the same bass level right?


 
 Have a listen to k's 500;it trumphs fullsize cans also in terms of bass reponse in both quality and quantity.i assure you its definitely better than your both neutral fullsized cans hd600 and Akg one.Thats why i am saying wait till you receive all the buds.
 Also proper sealing is required to get desired bass from buds;for that you can use foams and rings.But without loose sealing also k's 500 is a beast.


----------



## Townyj

Anyone can compare the K's 500 with the Puresounds 500 Pop version?


----------



## ctaxxxx

bar3336 said:


> My main issue with full sized cans is the comfort, have a big head and ears, and most cans hurt my head after 30 minutes.. Those buds don't... My only concern is to if they can measure up to the sound quality of full sized cans, from what i understand they can't reproduce the same bass level right?


 
  
 For dynamic headphones, definitely. Planars are another story. I can't see earbuds beating the LCD 2's bass extension without over-powering the other frequencies. A good seal definitely plays a role, which is why I decided to stick with IEMs for bass-centric music. Though CampFreds come pretty close, so it may be possible!
  
 What we need are Planar magnetic earbuds. Audeze already released the iSine. How about an eSine(?) for the earbud market!


----------



## mochill

ctaxxxx said:


> bar3336 said:
> 
> 
> > My main issue with full sized cans is the comfort, have a big head and ears, and most cans hurt my head after 30 minutes.. Those buds don't... My only concern is to if they can measure up to the sound quality of full sized cans, from what i understand they can't reproduce the same bass level right?
> ...


Zen 2 black edition


----------



## 1TrickPony

mochill said:


> Zen 2 black edition




sorry guy. I think I heard him say that he don't want no ve buds. zen2.0 was a bit of a letdown in his exp


----------



## one1speed

bar3336 said:


> My main issue with full sized cans is the comfort, have a big head and ears, and most cans hurt my head after 30 minutes.. Those buds don't... My only concern is to if they can measure up to the sound quality of full sized cans, from what i understand they can't reproduce the same bass level right?


 

 This is interesting. I have the Grado PS500e headphone, but as good as they sound, I don't love wearing full sized headphones for longer periods of time. My goal with earbuds is the try to find something that will get close to matching them. While I am new to buds, and find their capability far exceeds what I thought they could do, I'm not sure they can match the Grados. Overall, I find that the Grados have a bigger sound. I'm not saying the resolution detail, etc. of buds is below par, that's not the case. And if you can get a good fit, the bass is pretty impressive.
  
 In my experience so far, they just don't seem to match the bigger sound of larger headphones. I am finding I'm using my Grados much less, we'll see how this journey continues. Have the Shozy BK on the way to try out next.


----------



## mochill

Then the 1more e1008


----------



## AkashS04

luedriver said:


> well I don't know how warm these are compared to others but the philips she3205 comes with mic and has flat cables, might be a bit pricey though if bought at retail price and also it shaped like earpods if that is good or bad
> 
> for me they are quite pleasant sounding and have nice amount of bass but probably not basshead bass
> 
> ...


 
 Looks like earpod style earphones and no earbud. Earpods are not comfortable. I used Apple Earpod and could not even wear them for 30 min.


----------



## bar3336

ן can't wait for the k's then! 
I understand what the foams do, but how do i use the rings?


----------



## bar3336

Hd600, Akg k702, hd598cs, philips 9500, sony mdr1a...


----------



## Frederick Wang

Fellow B320 owners, how would you describe their vocal presentation? To my ears it's almost like people are singing/speaking in a horn shell, with multiple transient echoes, voices are always fuzzy


----------



## vapman

frederick wang said:


> Fellow B320 owners, how would you describe their vocal presentation? To my ears it's almost like people are singing/speaking in a horn shell, with multiple transient echoes, voices are always fuzzy




Yep. They either sound okay or totally weird.


----------



## Redcarmoose

http://www.head-fi.org/t/843190/the-7-cubu-earbud


----------



## soul05

I've been away from head-fi for a while. I wanted to try out some earbuds and found these on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/222179974635  Aiwa HP-EX11
  
 anyone have experience with these? I picked up a pair because the aiwa brand gives me nostalgia since it was the brand of my first minidisc player.


----------



## luedriver

redcarmoose said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/843190/the-7-cubu-earbud


 
 I tried looking for them on ali and found these kube earbuds instead
  
 they have pretty low resistance, I don't remember seeing 9ohm earbuds before


----------



## Redcarmoose

luedriver said:


> I tried looking for them on ali and found these kube earbuds instead
> 
> they have pretty low resistance, I don't remember seeing 9ohm earbuds before




Once you find a pair you will find they are extremely easy to drive. Many times easer to drive than say Apple EarPods? 

Strange as again, I never thought foam covers would bring out the best in them. It may have been that my continued demos before purchase and before the introduction of foam covers was having me hear the wrong frequencies enhanced by listening to them nude.

I never thought that foam covers would do what they did to the signature.

The foamies made everything more clear?


Your link has nothing to do with the Cubu earbuds?

Sorry I can't get a better source to purchase. Crazy too as they are sold here everywhere. They also do make a small MP3 player called the Cube though? The player comes with the Cubu earbuds as a combo.


----------



## luedriver

redcarmoose said:


> Your link has nothing to do with the Cubu earbuds?


 
 I didn't say they did, I was implying that they are the same company, since this was the only earbuds I found when looking up the words "kube cubu" on aliexpress
  
 I looked up on ebay as well but as far as I know they probably only sell stuff from their website  newkube and maybe amazon
  
 I mean easier to buy than taobao I guess...
  
 are these the same?


----------



## Redcarmoose

luedriver said:


> I didn't say they did, I was implying that they are the same company, since this was the only earbuds I found when looking up the words "kube cubu" on aliexpress
> 
> I looked up on ebay as well but as far as I know they probably only sell stuff from their website
> newkube and maybe amazon
> ...





I have purchased a lot of stuff here, but you 1) need to make sure they have stock and 2) have sold a bunch before.

https://www.bukalapak.com/p/elektronik/headphone/1a9gh6-jual-the-kube-earbuds-earphone-headset-murah-kualitas-studio-dijamin-mantep-suaranya-gan-gak-diragukan-lagi


You may find 50 dealers selling them at Bukalapak. They are everywhere here like cans of Coke.


----------



## Redcarmoose

luedriver said:


> I didn't say they did, I was implying that they are the same company, since this was the only earbuds I found when looking up the words "kube cubu" on aliexpress
> 
> I looked up on ebay as well but as far as I know they probably only sell stuff from their website
> newkube and maybe amazon
> ...




That's them, only mine have a really small "s" after the Cubu name if you look at the pictures. So I don't know? Sorry!


Let me get you the B/M storefront, if you want they can mail you a pair.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Win's Computer 0856-0090-1000

Call/SMS/WA


They have pickle jars of them.


Address

Rimo Trade Center lt 2
Block A3-A4
Bali Island, Indonesia


----------



## luedriver

@Redcarmoose thanks for the info and the links, was curious mostly, right now I have some nicehck earbuds on the way as well as a ty hi-z iem, maybe I'll buy a kube earbud as well but my collection is feeling a bit full, so idk for now


----------



## Redcarmoose

luedriver said:


> @Redcarmoose
> thanks for the info and the links, was curious mostly, right now I have some nicehck earbuds on the way as well as a ty hi-z iem, maybe I'll buy a kube earbud as well but my collection is feeling a bit full, so idk for now




Haha, yes, my part of the world has slightly different stuff for sale than USA mainstream Head-Fi. I do reviews anyways even if it seems to be an import only product as if enough times goes by eventually stuff becomes available on Amazon.com.


----------



## luedriver

redcarmoose said:


> Haha, yes, my part of the world has slightly different stuff for sale than USA mainstream Head-Fi. I do reviews anyways even if it seems to be an import only product as if enough times goes by eventually stuff becomes available on Amazon.com.


 
 I just hope they get sold on aliexpress or penon or perhaps ebay, being in australia, everything from amazon costs its weight in shipping


----------



## Frederick Wang

golov17 said:


> http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=521991351143


 
 They are also fantastic, compared to Sharp earbuds, less grande but more refined. 
 Both unbelievable value.


----------



## Redcarmoose

luedriver said:


> I just hope they get sold on aliexpress or penon or perhaps ebay, being in australia, everything from amazon costs its weight in shipping




Real Piston 3 at Gearbest.

http://m.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_169225.html



Your going to need the Sony Hybrid Tips to activate the sound though.

Sorry off topic!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

redcarmoose said:


> I have purchased a lot of stuff here, but you 1) need to make sure they have stock and 2) have sold a bunch before.
> 
> https://www.bukalapak.com/p/elektronik/headphone/1a9gh6-jual-the-kube-earbuds-earphone-headset-murah-kualitas-studio-dijamin-mantep-suaranya-gan-gak-diragukan-lagi
> 
> ...


 

 Can you order from the USA, for that site?
  
 --


----------



## Redcarmoose

bloodypenguin said:


> Can you order from the USA, for that site?
> 
> --




If you look closely it's both private small sales individuals and giant cell phone stores. You can just call up the cellphone store and if you speak Indonesian, ask them to mail it to you. 

The place can be edgy if you actually order with it, as once I lost some money due to not checking if the store had ever really sold anything before. Still waiting to get my money back if I ever do? 

Still if you find big stores you may notice they have everything, tons of crazy Indonesian audiophile stuff. I've spent $240 so far at that place and got my stuff.


----------



## Redcarmoose

bloodypenguin said:


> Can you order from the USA, for that site?
> 
> --





If a pair of Cubu earbuds are what your after I could just mail you a pair? Just have to buy another pair across the island. I would do this only because I know your REALLY into earbuds. Haha


----------



## BloodyPenguin

My review of the *ColaRad C01 *is up: 

 http://www.head-fi.org/products/colarad-c01/reviews/18354


  
 --


----------



## Saoshyant

redcarmoose said:


> If a pair of Cubu earbuds are what your after I could just mail you a pair? Just have to buy another pair across the island. I would do this only because I know your REALLY into earbuds. Haha


 
  
 I imagine he might not be the only one interested!


----------



## luedriver

redcarmoose said:


> Real Piston 3 at Gearbest.
> 
> http://m.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_169225.html
> 
> ...


 
 I feel like this was intended response to someone else, otherwise, I am confused...


----------



## AkashS04

After listening Monk+ and SHE3800 side-by-side and same song, I guess there is almost no comparison between SHE3800 and Monk+. I am not saying Monk+ is bad but far behind SHE3800


----------



## AkashS04

akashs04 said:


> After listening Monk+ and SHE3800 side-by-side and same song, I guess there is almost no comparison between SHE3800 and Monk+. I am not saying Monk+ is bad but far behind SHE3800


 
 If one thing which needs some improvement in SHE3800 that is details. Some more level of details (without being harsh) will take SHE3800 to really high level in terms of Sound Quality.


----------



## Redcarmoose

luedriver said:


> I feel like this was intended response to someone else, otherwise, I am confused...




No buddy, just thinking outside the box. It was just a suggestion of two things you could order at a value price that would sound good. Off topic in an earbud thread. Cheers!


----------



## ozkan

akashs04 said:


> If one thing which needs some improvement in SHE3800 that is details. Some more level of details (without being harsh) will take SHE3800 to really high level in terms of Sound Quality.




That's why we mod them and replace the cable and add a tiny bit of Blu-tac inside the shell. You may replace the stock cable with Monk's cable and see if you hear more details.


----------



## luedriver

redcarmoose said:


> No buddy, just thinking outside the box. It was just a suggestion of two things you could order at a value price that would sound good. Off topic in an earbud thread. Cheers!


 
 I know of piston, I had the 2.0 before giving them to my brother, I saw the same iems on penon. It seems they are out of stock bith on penon and the site you linked, I don't doubt that they could be good iems, xiaomi is a good brand, most of the time


----------



## Redcarmoose

luedriver said:


> I know of piston, I had the 2.0 before giving them to my brother, I saw the same iems on penon. It seems they are out of stock bith on penon and the site you linked, I don't doubt that they could be good iems, xiaomi is a good brand, most of the time




They are sold out again at Gearbest? Interesting as they have been just ordered there the last couple days, which in itself kind rare as they are mainly sold-out as most of us think. But memebers of Head-Fi have just been ordering them as of maybe yesterday from there?


----------



## AkashS04

ozkan said:


> That's why we mod them and replace the cable and add a tiny bit of Blu-tac inside the shell. You may replace the stock cable with Monk's cable and see if you hear more details.


 
 Unfortunately I don't know how to recable the earbuds. Or I would have recabled them with beautiful Flat Cable which I want for some time. So one question, having strong and thick cable will ensure more details in earbud?


----------



## AkashS04

Mrice E100 (and E100-A). I guess they are good earbuds and someone even mentioned in his review that it will remain his favourite earbuds until something really good does not come up. 
  
 Anyway has used this in this forum? Are they better than SHE3800? Also, if any one has link to the one which is with Mic?


----------



## vapman

E100 is good but kind of fragile. Flat cable though (well triangle)


----------



## AkashS04

vapman said:


> E100 is good but kind of fragile. Flat cable though (well triangle)


 
 Fragile means they can break down easily? Someone also mentioned that though they are good, they don't stay in the ear and come out without doing much movement.


----------



## numon

double post..


----------



## Saoshyant

vapman said:


> E100 is good but kind of fragile. Flat cable though (well triangle)




My real complaint is apparently there were good and bad ones, so it is a gamble to even bother. Mine has some QC issues like the plastic at the jack not being glued on so it slides off.


----------



## tintheman

frederick wang said:


> I never listened to mx300, but according to some description, mx300 has "insufficient treble and bass can be bloated." This is not the case with Sharp 1bit. Though it does not have top notch refinement, its treble and bass are both quite nice. To my ears its apparent shortcomings are warmth in midrange and sibilance.


 
 Just received the Sharp 1bit and the sound quality is great on this cheap price earbuds. The extension cable is super stiff but does the job to convert the 4 poles signal. It works great with the walnut, very 3D sound like.


----------



## numon

i will buy rose masya but i want better  sq one.so if i  buy  on AE  listing as' 2017 rose masya carbon fiber ...'.  are the  carbon model   same sq as old ones or  changed sq?.anyone confirm.?thanks


----------



## golov17

numon said:


> i will buy rose masya but i want better  sq one.so if i  buy  on AE  listing as' 2017 rose masya carbon fiber ...'.  are the  carbon model   same sq as old ones or  changed sq?.anyone confirm.?thanks


buy carbon edition, i bought them too


----------



## numon

thanks 
  


golov17 said:


> buy carbon edition, i bought them too


 
 thanks.it is strange that they didnt changed the sq of carbon edition.only black version.


----------



## AkashS04

Any review on Boarseman MX98? I heard this is good one with Booming Bass and warm and good Sound overall?


----------



## Redcarmoose

akashs04 said:


> Any review on Boarseman MX98? I heard this is good one with Booming Bass and warm and good Sound overall?




http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/3150#post_12442450

Google search ........


----------



## ozkan

akashs04 said:


> Any review on Boarseman MX98? I heard this is good one with Booming Bass and warm and good Sound overall?




AkashS04 please don't misunderstand me but I think you won't find an earbud with booming bass. You'd better look for IEMs or headphones since the bass are greater on them. 

Or if you still haven't tried the donut foams buy them and see if they improve the bass on your current earbuds.


----------



## ZoneX23

Hey guys! I've been looking for a great earbud with a sound signature similar to the old YUIN PK3's. Would anyone be able to offer some suggestions? (They can be anywhere from budget earbuds to TOTL beasts.) From what others have said, the old PK3's were warm with strong, clear, and detailed mids. They also featured pretty good bass with good extension and a large soundstage. Any ideas? Thanks


----------



## AkashS04

ozkan said:


> AkashS04 please don't misunderstand me but I think you won't find an earbud with booming bass. You'd better look for IEMs or headphones since the bass are greater on them.
> 
> Or if you still haven't tried the donut foams buy them and see if they improve the bass on your current earbuds.


 
 Hi. I understand that In-Earn will have actual Bass but I really need to see once more if I find them comfortable. Anyway, one thing I wanted to know if Donut Foam will make bigger impact on Bass then normal cushion foam? Are they better than Cushion Foam?


----------



## gc335

akashs04 said:


> Any review on Boarseman MX98? I heard this is good one with Booming Bass and warm and good Sound overall?


 
 Sennheiser IE80 if you want an IEM.  I have a pair that I use for the gym.  Solid bass especially with a little EQ.


----------



## ozkan

akashs04 said:


> Hi. I understand that In-Earn will have actual Bass but I really need to see once more if I find them comfortable. Anyway, one thing I wanted to know if Donut Foam will make bigger impact on Bass then normal cushion foam? Are they better than Cushion Foam?




For me yes. Btw I'm not a basshead


----------



## jplay

Hi,
 I'm new in this place.
 I need to buy foam for my earbuds. I own Monk+, Qian39, SHE3800, E808+ ecc.. VEMonk+'s foam breaks quickly. Need to order pairs that have a good life.
 I read variuios post in here but searching for advice is best.
 Thanks
  
 ps
 I'm not english


----------



## Frederick Wang

@tintheman
 I enjoy listening to them with rubber rings on, you should try that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 And by the way, where did you buy them?


----------



## mochill

zonex23 said:


> Hey guys! I've been looking for a great earbud with a sound signature similar to the old YUIN PK3's. Would anyone be able to offer some suggestions? (They can be anywhere from budget earbuds to TOTL beasts.) From what others have said, the old PK3's were warm with strong, clear, and detailed mids. They also featured pretty good bass with good extension and a large soundstage. Any ideas? Thanks


Zen 2 black edition


----------



## noknok23

I'd say edimun v3 has boomy bass. I have yet to see but mag7 is said to have iem level of bass 
Unfortunately these are mid to high budget.


----------



## Saoshyant

noknok23 said:


> I'd say edimun v3 has boomy bass. I have yet to see but mag7 is said to have iem level of bass
> Unfortunately these are mid to high budget.


 
  
 I have the Mag7, and the bass for an earbud is truly impressive, but I know it can go further for someone who'll EQ properly (I'm a little lazy, and depending on dap not always an option) & bass boost to no end.  For most, the Edimun's bass will be more than sufficient, and I know for me it's really enjoyable.


----------



## DBaldock9

saoshyant said:


> I have the Mag7, and the bass for an earbud is truly impressive, but I know it can go further for someone who'll EQ properly (I'm a little lazy, and depending on dap not always an option) & bass boost to no end.  For most, the Edimun's bass will be more than sufficient, and I know for me it's really enjoyable.


 
  
 I should have a set of BHOBuds MAG-7 before too long (they're shipping along with some TY Hi-Z 650 that I bought from @vapman).
 I'll be able to test them with my iFi Micro iDSD, and also with a Walnut v2 (currently on order).


----------



## tintheman

frederick wang said:


> @tintheman
> I enjoy listening to them with rubber rings on, you should try that
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I got them from ebay, actually bought two pairs at once but they are good except the stiff extension cable and j shape earbuds...I will try rubber rings or naked but right now am using the VE thin foams...


----------



## axtran

Picked up the Sharp 1Bit 3.5mm Balanced. They sound amazingly great just coming out of my XDP-300R!


----------



## ProLoL

As much as I love the Ty hi-z 650, I'm selling them fully burned in, in a great price, contact me if anyone's interested.


----------



## mochill

How much


----------



## bar3336

What are you buying instead of them?


----------



## chinmie

noknok23 said:


> I'd say edimun v3 has boomy bass. I have yet to see but mag7 is said to have iem level of bass
> Unfortunately these are mid to high budget.


 
 what foams are you using them with? i tried different types, and only the VE thin foams make the edimun to not have the boomy bass for me. it still have a generous amount of bass though, but it's more punchy that way


----------



## ProLoL

mochill said:


> How much


 
 90 USD, they're almost 1 month old, I think 30 USD off is a good price.


----------



## ProLoL

bar3336 said:


> What are you buying instead of them?


 
 That's a secret =).. btw.. someone offered me 150 USD for MX985, any other offers before I close the deal?


----------



## ctaxxxx

prolol said:


> That's a secret =).. btw.. someone offered me 150 USD for MX985, any other offers before I close the deal?


 

 $151!
  
 (kidding...)


----------



## ProLoL

ctaxxxx said:


> $151!
> 
> (kidding...)


 
 Deal!! lol


----------



## Saoshyant

prolol said:


> That's a secret =).. btw.. someone offered me 150 USD for MX985, any other offers before I close the deal?




I really should sell/trade mine as it doesn't suit me.


----------



## bar3336

Guys, what sort of amp do i need to use with the zen 2.0, i have the liitle dot I+, the dac is smsl. Sankrit, those will be a good pairing wuth it? Or i have to get the Runabout? Also does the runabout have a ac power plug or only works with batteries?


----------



## golov17

bar3336 said:


> Guys, what sort of amp do i need to use with the zen 2.0, i have the liitle dot I+, the dac is smsl. Sankrit, those will be a good pairing wuth it? Or i have to get the Runabout? Also does the runabout have a ac power plug or only works with batteries?


 http://www.head-fi.org/t/780539/ve-runabout-impressions-thread


----------



## AkashS04

Anyone has pictures or link to BHOBuds? Their site says that it is not for faint heart and only for Basshead. Are they that good? Let me also see if any review here.


----------



## gc335

bar3336 said:


> Guys, what sort of amp do i need to use with the zen 2.0, i have the liitle dot I+, the dac is smsl. Sankrit, those will be a good pairing wuth it? Or i have to get the Runabout? Also does the runabout have a ac power plug or only works with batteries?


 
 I've heard the VE RA is great with the Zen 2.  I have the Centrance Hifi M8 and I think it pairs really well with the Zen.


----------



## bar3336

Does the Ra come with a ac adapter or only uses batteries?


----------



## Fabi

It comes with external power supply 18V (max) and can be used with 9V battery.


----------



## jplay

I already have Qian39, VE Monk+, SHE3800, **** PT15 ecc
 Are there others best budget earbuds to buy that sounds differents?
 Yes, I like the bass


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I just uploaded my review of the *Rose Masya*:

 http://www.head-fi.org/products/rose-masya/reviews/18370
  

  
 --


----------



## Frederick Wang

jplay said:


> I already have Qian39, VE Monk+, SHE3800, **** PT15 ecc
> Are there others best budget earbuds to buy that sounds differents?
> Yes, I like the bass


 
 Sharp 1bit, if you can find some


----------



## weedophile

Hi guys, i hate to ask but i've hit a stone right now. I tried to open the Qian39 buds to no avail. Do i have to stick something into it and pry it open?


----------



## jplay

frederick wang said:


> Sharp 1bit, if you can find some


 
 Where to buy Frederick?
 In Aliex. are available? 
 Do you think is it opportune to buy Awei ES10, RY 4S etc..?!
 Last but non least a kit of foam...


----------



## Frederick Wang

weedophile said:


> Hi guys, i hate to ask but i've hit a stone right now. I tried to open the Qian39 buds to no avail. Do i have to stick something into it and pry it open?


 
 I remember I opened it with just my thumb nail, shouldn't be very difficult


----------



## Frederick Wang

jplay said:


> Where to buy Frederick?
> In Aliex. are available?
> Do you think is it opportune to buy Awei ES10, RY 4S etc..?!
> Last but non least a kit of foam...


 
 I bought it from Taobao, but there are some available on ebay too. 
  
 US seller:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARP-1-Bit-4-Poles-Earphones-Monster-3-5mm-iCablelink-Headphones-iPhone-Adapter-/390942638068
  
 Australian seller:
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Sharp-1BIT-4H-Unit-Headphones-Extension-Cable-/300552859462
  
 Haven't tried the other 2 earbuds you mentioned.


----------



## one1speed

bloodypenguin said:


> I just uploaded my review of the *Rose Masya*:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/rose-masya/reviews/18370
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice review. I find I like these quite a bit, though am noting my Masya (recent purchase) have a different screen over the drivers, where the perforations are continuous throughout the screen. I do have a hard time with fit, struggling with this, but find the sound to be very good, especially considering the price point. Nice extension top to bottom, and very smooth. The Shozy BK showed up this week, and I'm finding that I use them more due to fit. While the bottom end on the BK is a bit stronger in my system, I do miss the more open top end of the Masya, hoping the BK will open up a bit more. Need to spend some time on fitting the Masya, see what I can sort out.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## waynes world

waynes world said:


> Gonna get the Qian39. Thinking of getting it from aliexpress here.
> 
> I'm not too thrilled with the 39-59 days to wait though (and the aliexpress premium shipping for faster shipping costs too much). Does anyone know if these are sold someplace that uses epacket?


 
  
 They arrived! First impressions: they are great! @vapman, you were right about the walnut, and you are right about the qian39's.





  


vapman said:


> I have one other Qian39 in stock form around, and man it just sounds like a distant radio compared to the recabled one.


 
  
 The sound is pushed back a bit (compared to the monk +'s for instance). I don't mind that - they still sound great to me. But, you've got me interested in how they would sound recabled!
  


vapman said:


> I have put a half dozen different cables on qian39.
> No two sounded alike.
> My recommendation, get  some backup qian39's, cause you will break at least one if its your first time modding, and don't buy more than one of any cable until you've tried some stuff.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't have the skittles for recabling. But I know someone who does <cough> @nick n <cough>.
  
 I think what you are saying is that I should order a few pairs for him pronto!


----------



## rkw

bar3336 said:


> Guys, what sort of amp do i need to use with the zen 2.0, i have the liitle dot I+, the dac is smsl.


 
 The Little Dot I+ should provide ample power. Give it a try before considering other options.
  
 I hardly see any mention of tube amps (like Little Dot) in this thread. Is everybody here going for portability?


----------



## Frederick Wang

Does anyone know about this earbud? Apparently no logo on them, only some dubious claim of German lineage...


----------



## weedophile

frederick wang said:


> I remember I opened it with just my thumb nail, shouldn't be very difficult




Thanks! But when i tried to pry it open i almost bent my thumbnails lol xD shall try it again as i am super curious how it'd sound and i ordered a few (bunch) of them during the 8th annivery sale.


----------



## nmatheis

akashs04 said:


> Anyone has pictures or link to BHOBuds? Their site says that it is not for faint heart and only for Basshead. Are they that good? Let me also see if any review here.




I ordered some awhile ago but haven't received them yet. Once I get them, I'll be sure to post pictures and let you all know what I think.


----------



## bar3336

I hear that it's not only about power, some earphones pair well with some amps and some don't? Still can't find if the VE RA runs only batteries or can be run through regular Ac adapter like a desktop amp?


----------



## bar3336

The external power supply is only for charging the batteries or can power the device without the batteries?


----------



## golov17

bar3336 said:


> The external power supply is only for charging the batteries or can power the device without the batteries?


 Not for charging, connection psu need to remove the batterys


----------



## bar3336

Thx, so just to clear up things for me, the package comes with external adapter that can be used to power the amp like a desktop amp without batteries?


----------



## golov17

bar3336 said:


> Thx, so just to clear up things for me, the package comes with external adapter that can be used to power the amp like a desktop amp without batteries?


yes, for more power


----------



## bar3336

You recommend it more than fiio a3 or my desktop liitle dot I+ amp?


----------



## weedophile

The recabled KZ Qian39! I have to say the shell is actually really easy to open after i tried it again -_-" And the body of the Qian39 is actually really small, which makes the cable management a tad difficult if u tie a knot inside the shell


----------



## golov17

bar3336 said:


> You recommend it more than fiio a3 or my desktop liitle dot I+ amp?


no idea


----------



## flamesofarctica

weedophile said:


> The recabled KZ Qian39! I have to say the shell is actually really easy to open after i tried it again -_-" And the body of the Qian39 is actually really small, which makes the cable management a tad difficult if u tie a knot inside the shell




How does it sound?


----------



## Redcarmoose

luedriver said:


> I know of piston, I had the 2.0 before giving them to my brother, I saw the same iems on penon. It seems they are out of stock bith on penon and the site you linked, I don't doubt that they could be good iems, xiaomi is a good brand, most of the time





Back in stock today!
http://m.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_169225.html


----------



## bar3336

Hey guys, what do you think of the yinman earbuds? Got very good reviews on AE, there's a whole line -500, 600, 64,


----------



## flamesofarctica

bar3336 said:


> Hey guys, what do you think of the yinman earbuds? Got very good reviews on AE, there's a whole line -500, 600, 64,




I can only comment on two of them:

64 - nothing special, a bit harsh, I wouldn't bother. Definitely don't 'Kill Monk' as advertised. When there are so many good budget earbuds available, I see no reason for recommending these IMO.

150 - nice bass, great overall sound, zero harshness, really comfortable, ugly, I recommend


----------



## BloodyPenguin

frederick wang said:


> Does anyone know about this earbud? Apparently no logo on them, only some dubious claim of German lineage...


 
  
  
 DO NOT BUY!  I got fooled by the German claim.  They are AWFUL.  Learn from my mistakes.
  
 --


----------



## weedophile

flamesofarctica said:


> How does it sound?




I cant give a detailed comment for now bro as i lose my music time during weekends lol. Shall update u again real soon!


----------



## ozkan

Philips SHE3800 and Edifier H180 sound almost the same as far as I can tell so don't bother buying H180 if you already have SHE3800. Though H180's cable is very soft and longer than the SHE3800.

SHE3800 is a real steal for $3.21


----------



## headjelly

bar3336 said:


> Hey guys, what do you think of the yinman earbuds? Got very good reviews on AE, there's a whole line -500, 600, 64,


 
  
 I have Yinman 500 and they are awesome. They are currently one of my three favourite earbuds, together with the Blox B320 and Puresounds PS100-600. They are rather easy to drive, however, they do benefit from amping and the silver cable keeps rolling itself in a coil.


----------



## Blueshound24

I think I have asked this before but not with the requirement for "low impedance" earbuds that would sound ok out of a smartphone, with a similar sig to HD650 or W4R? My favs the Sennheiser HD650 and Westone W4R are both warm, smooth, neutral, slightly mid-forward with the treble just a tiny bit rolled off. They have a very rich, easy, non-fatiguing easy to listen to.
  
 The VE Zen was mentioned before, however, as you know... 320OHM.


----------



## ozkan

blueshound24 said:


> [COLOR=231F20]I think I have asked this before but not with the requirement for "low impedance" earbuds that would sound ok out of a smartphone, with a similar sig to HD650 or W4R? My[/COLOR] [COLOR=231F20]favs the HD650 and W4R are both warm, smooth, neutral, slightly mid-forward with the treble just a tiny bit rolled off. They have a very rich, easy, non-fatiguing easy to listen to.[/COLOR]
> 
> 
> The VE Zen was mentioned before, however, as you know... 320OHMS.




Edifier H180, Philips SHE3800


----------



## Blueshound24

ozkan said:


> blueshound24 said:
> 
> 
> > I think I have asked this before but not with the requirement for "low impedance" earbuds that would sound ok out of a smartphone, with a similar sig to HD650 or W4R? My favs the Sennheiser HD650 and Westone W4R are both warm, smooth, neutral, slightly mid-forward with the treble just a tiny bit rolled off. They have a very rich, easy, non-fatiguing easy to listen to.
> ...


 
  
 Sorry, forgot to list what I already have:
  
 SHE3800
 TY Hi-Z HP-32
 P185
 Monk+
  
 And of those, my favs are Monk+, then SHE3800. Just looking for an upgrade.


----------



## DBaldock9

ozkan said:


> blueshound24 said:
> 
> 
> > I think I have asked this before but not with the requirement for "low impedance" earbuds that would sound ok out of a smartphone, with a similar sig to HD650 or W4R? My favs the HD650 and W4R are both warm, smooth, neutral, slightly mid-forward with the treble just a tiny bit rolled off. They have a very rich, easy, non-fatiguing easy to listen to.
> ...


 
  
 Quote:


blueshound24 said:


> Sorry, forgot to list what I already have:
> 
> SHE3800
> TY Hi-Z HP-32
> ...


 
  
 I'm not too familiar with the headphones you mention, but the description - "_warm, smooth, neutral, slightly mid-forward with the treble just a tiny bit rolled off_" - could possibly be applied to the budget priced Qian39. My re-wired (balanced) set sounds better than stock, but the stock wiring just has a bit less Bass impact and _air_ in the sound stage. Both sets of Qian39 have clear & detailed Midrange.  The Qian25 has more Bass, but the Midrange seems a bit recessed, compared to the Monk+ and Qian39.


----------



## silverfishla

I just got a pair of Toneking TP-16 earbuds. I really like the sort of dry vocal forward presentation of these. They have good energy and (at least the vocal section) is very resolving. They get the voice right.


----------



## Blueshound24

dbaldock9 said:


> ozkan said:
> 
> 
> > blueshound24 said:
> ...


 
 Your signature says you have Asura 2. Would that be within my description as well, and maybe better yet? That is another one I have considered. It is 150OHMS and maybe would be ok with smartphone?


----------



## Nec3

Any earbuds that sound good without foam covers? I have 100 foam cover replacements but I only carry two around that's attached to my earbuds. Unfortunately I've only had experience with Apple Earpods in regards to foamless earbuds, and they're not very durable...


----------



## DBaldock9

blueshound24 said:


> Your signature says you have Asura 2. Would that be within my description as well, and maybe better yet? That is another one I have considered. It is 150OHMS and maybe would be ok with smartphone?


 
 As a matter of fact - *Yes!*  The Asura 2.0 is a definite step up from the Monk+, especially the Bass impact and Midrange clarity & detail.
  
 I've been sitting here today, enjoying my Asura 2.0 (connected to my PC / iFi Micro iDSD).
  
 Just switched them over to my Nexus 5 phone (streaming ThistleRadio), and a comfortable listening level in my quiet living room is at ~40% on the volume control.  According to PhoneArena.com Benchmarks, the Nexus 5 has 0.36V of headphone output, and some phones have as much as 1.0V.


----------



## Blueshound24

dbaldock9 said:


> blueshound24 said:
> 
> 
> > Your signature says you have Asura 2. Would that be within my description as well, and maybe better yet? That is another one I have considered. It is 150OHMS and maybe would be ok with smartphone?
> ...


 
  
 Cool!
 Anyone want to sell their Asura 2.0?


----------



## flamesofarctica

dbaldock9 said:


> According to PhoneArena.com Benchmarks, the Nexus 5 has 0.36V of headphone output, and some phones have as much as 1.0V.




I wonder if those figures still apply in Europe and the UK with the volume limits that are enforced.



blueshound24 said:


> Cool!
> Anyone want to sell their Asura 2.0?




Not me, one of my favorite earbuds :-D


----------



## DBaldock9

flamesofarctica said:


> I wonder if those figures still apply in Europe and the UK with the volume limits that are enforced.
> Not me, one of my favorite earbuds :-D


 
  
 If those volume limits are software enforced, then rooting the Nexus 5 (like I've done), and replacing the OS, would remove the limits.


----------



## davakhrs

What is the best earbuds under 13 dollars?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

ozkan said:


> Philips SHE3800 and Edifier H180 sound almost the same as far as I can tell so don't bother buying H180 if you already have SHE3800. Though H180's cable is very soft and longer than the SHE3800.


 
 Really? That's incredible. Some people on here told me otherwise so I bought a pair. I guess I wasted my money. Oh wells. I'm not a fan of SHE3800, it sounds like H180's are much better.


----------



## ozkan

laughmoredaily said:


> Really? That's incredible. Some people on here told me otherwise so I bought a pair. I guess I wasted my money. Oh wells. I'm not a fan of SHE3800, it sounds like H180's are much better.





Well that impression was out of the box. After burning them in for a few hours H180 sounded clearer and has more controlled bass. Now I prefer H180 over SHE3800 but they still share the similar signature.


----------



## bar3336

Guys, what earbuds are best suited for mobile phones? I mean the zen 2, ty 650 an etc' need amping... But what buds sound great just by plugging them to your phone?


----------



## Luan Dee

Something thats an upgraded from budget buds and good all arounder, low impedance so can be easily played through phone would be shozy cygnus. If u dont care about budget go straight to campfred EDIT: or shozy BK (stardust)


----------



## bar3336

I would like to buy campfrex, but the shipping cost alone to my country will be more expensive than the buds themselves... You say the cygnus is best out of phone without amping?


----------



## Luan Dee

Yes, there might be other contenders for this requirement but if you backread maybe a few hundred posts or simply search cygnus in this thread's search feature, it's sort of a general consensus that it's one of the best all arounder. Some say it's bass shy but a few of us who has let it burned in for quite some time noticed an improvement in bass. One con would be that the cable turns green eventually due to oxidation but doesnt affect the sound. Please search so you can confirm for yourself, there's also a thread for the cygnus if you want more reading. Also known as one of the best for vocals. i wanted to try qfred if it trumps cygnus for vocals but too expensive just for that for me

Edit: if you'll go with cygnus, might as well order heigi donut foams. It doenst come with extra foams from what i remember and it works awesome with donut foams


----------



## Suwarna

HI All, 

just wonder if there other review for yinman 600ohm ? only found 1 review from user here, seems this model not really popular ? how about yinman 600ohm compare with seahf 650 ohm and also k's500 ohm ? i owned k's500 v2 and loved it, just thinking to add 1 more between yinman 600 or seahf 650. any thought will be appreciate. thank you.


----------



## bar3336

How do you like the k500? They're on their way to me... If one finds aw awesome bud like the 500 why does one need more buds? They're not just great all rounders? By the way, can you use them on your phone without amping?


----------



## Suwarna

hi, k's 500 ohm is a very good all rounder, bass, mid, high, all in order. i never try from phone but direct from fiio x5ii need me to turn volume to around 80 to get good sound. you will love yours, i guarantee.

i only want to add some earbud in my collection


----------



## weedophile

Just gave a short run of the recabled Qian39 and below are some of the tracks i've used:
 Celine Dion - All By Myself
 Sarah McLachlan - Fear
 Enya - Aniron
 Star*****er - Pop Song
 The Black Keys - Everlasting Light
 Wilco - Pieholden Suite
  
 Rest at at random while i was typing:
 Cheer Chen - Child (Mandarin)
 Benji Hughes - Do You Think They Would Tell You?
 Natalie Cole - Miss You Like Crazy
 Of Montreal - Gronlandic Edit
  
 The setup for me is through my desktop with stock Walnut V2 as an amp and the line out is a generic copper cable which i have gotten from AE. Side note is that the Walnut with the copper cable is actually pretty bassy, and i have certainly gotten used to the sound lol. I used 2 donut foams over the Qian39 as i dont want to muffle the trebles as i kinda enjoy brighter sounds but not for extended period.
  
 Abit of foreword, the stock Qian39 is very well know for its bass and comfort, as it has one of the smallest body among all earbuds i must apologise that i actually have very limited vocab with sound description so bare with me for awhile. And one more thing is that i have not used the stock Qian39 for abit, and alot here is based on my memory.
  
 Bass: The bass quantity is still there, but i would say is sound more refined now. Previously, i must say tho they are there, the purpose is like "hey bro, i am here" kind of bass. Now it sound like, "check out that hot chick (bass) over there". Its there and u can notice how pleasant it is. I dont know if my idea of midbass is correct (my idea is the shake at the end of the notes which is super nice to hear), if it is, the quantity and smoothness is there too.
  
 Mids: Are always pleasant for the stock Qian39, i didnt notice much difference and honestly, i cant tell them apart if they excel in the mid range LOL
  
 Trebles: Still not the best, but i must say it sound abit better than stock. The KZ cables i've used actually dont really improve much in the upper regions as they are copper (? unsure if the material really matters or its a placebo effect, but i havent had any silver replacement cables at the moment, and will update once i have a good listen to a recabled one).
  
 The cable replacement did smoothen up the bass, with minimal impact to the highs. I would definitely love the highs to be more apparent but i definitely prefer this version compared to stock. To compare this with the recabled SHE3800, E808+ and the taobao replacement version of recabled PK2, i would probably place it joint 1st with the SHE3800 but the SHE3800 is heavily retuned to my taste. The E808+ abit behind on 3rd, and the PK2 4th as the shell is too hollow and made the bass very airy. I might not be a basshead but honestly listening to the Walnut and all the bassy buds made me brain-burnt to like them LOL.
  


flamesofarctica said:


> How does it sound?


----------



## Ira Delphic

bar3336 said:


> Guys, what earbuds are best suited for mobile phones? I mean the zen 2, ty 650 an etc' need amping... But what buds sound great just by plugging them to your phone?




It also depends on your phone. For example the LG v10, LG v20 and ZTE Axon 7 have enough volts to easily drive HP 650. Some lower end smartphones, budget ear buds would be fine since not quality source.


----------



## mochill

Who has the samsung ep350 buds


----------



## noknok23

are the DIY yuin PK2 worth the money? are they upgrade from the low end monk+ Qian39 earbuds?


----------



## tinkertailor

noknok23 said:


> are the DIY yuin PK2 worth the money? are they upgrade from the low end monk+ Qian39 earbuds?


 
 There are different Yuin pk2 DIY makers, so its difficult to gauge quality. The ones I have had in the past were not as enjoyable as the Qian39. 
  
 As of today my favourite all rounder are Faaeal 32, Ty Hi-Z 32 and Ty Hi- hp150, and this mx500 shelled bud. ( As of right now Faaeal is maybe best allrounder or mx500 , haven't made up my mind on which one i like the best, ty hi z 32 is bassier and more vintage maybe, the hp150 is more nuanced with no distorted low and good highs. ).  Hope that helps you.


----------



## weedophile

noknok23 said:


> are the DIY yuin PK2 worth the money? are they upgrade from the low end monk+ Qian39 earbuds?


 
 I would second @tinkertailor, mind didnt really sounded that good and Monk+ easily sound better. The shells for PK2 is too hollow and i bet they did alot of tuning to make them sound good, though i dont have one of the original stock myself


----------



## bar3336

Waiting to get a lot of buds... Only have monk+ at the moment and i think they're amazing... And they're considered low end... I wonder what totl buds will sound like!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

weedophile said:


> I would second @tinkertailor, mind didnt really sounded that good and Monk+ easily sound better. The shells for PK2 is too hollow and i bet they did alot of tuning to make them sound good, though i dont have one of the original stock myself


 
 Which seller and model did you buy?
  
 I bought these but I don't have them yet:
  
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2017-New-NICEHCK-DIY-PK2-Earbud-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud-Flat-Head-Plug-Earplugs-Headset-Free/32801437048.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.PBZrJk
  
 If Monk+ sounds better, that's terrible to me. I paid $25.00 CAN for these.


----------



## tinkertailor

laughmoredaily said:


> Which seller and model did you buy?
> 
> I bought these but I don't have them yet:
> 
> ...


 
 I think I had the DASETN ones, this company that was selling a bunch of cheap buds a few years ago, not even sure they are around anymore. Yours might be great, I hope they are!


----------



## bar3336

I looked in AliExpress and saw that most orders were for faaeal 64 not 32, are they the same? Also what's the difference between ty 32 regular and ty 32 balanced? Those earbuds are considered good all around and need no amping?


----------



## DBaldock9

bar3336 said:


> I looked in AliExpress and saw that most orders were for faaeal 64 not 32, are they the same? Also what's the difference between ty 32 regular and ty 32 balanced? Those earbuds are considered good all around and need no amping?


 
  
 The Balanced model will have a 2.5mm TRRS (4-pole) plug for audio-only - rather than a 3.5mm TRS (3-pole) plug for audio, or possibly a 3.5mm TRRS (4-pole) plug, if there is an optional cable with a Microphone.


----------



## bar3336

There's a difference in sound quality?


----------



## tinkertailor

bar3336 said:


> I looked in AliExpress and saw that most orders were for faaeal 64 not 32, are they the same? Also what's the difference between ty 32 regular and ty 32 balanced? Those earbuds are considered good all around and need no amping?



They are different. I think the faaeal 32 are not advertised too well, they dontveven put it in the title... i am talking about these:

https://m.aliexpress.com/s/item/32711687328.html

Its my favourite earbud cord as well.


----------



## bar3336

Hmm... They are good for a budget bud or good comparing to any bud?


----------



## DBaldock9

bar3336 said:


> There's a difference in sound quality?


 
  
 Well, you have to have a DAP or Amp with a Balanced output, to _correctly_ drive the Balanced earbuds.
  
 When I listen to my Balanced earphones or earbuds on the Balanced output of my DP-X1, they seem to have better Bass impact, and a bit more open Sound-Stage, than if I connect them with an adapter to the Single-ended output.


----------



## tinkertailor

bar3336 said:


> Hmm... They are good for a budget bud or good comparing to any bud?


 
 To me, they are the best Ive heard, haven't heard the TOTL earbuds mentioned here, see my profile for history of earbuds. Besides the Yuin earbuds, NineWave Studio Pro, and some older sony's (various models), and  I have been staying in the sub $20 land as of late and imo this are a is improving at a dramatic rate compared to years prior based on my listening habits and experiences.  I guess others would be able to tell you their preferences, I'm not entirely convinced spending more money will get me signifigant, if any , better better results at this point, especially through unamped generic sources. I think if it does, it would take a lot of expensive shopping aroudn to find the right higher end bud, which may not be suitable to some (its not to me). Others suggested that find the lower end bud sound sig you like and move up from there, that seems reasonable to me.


----------



## DBaldock9

blueshound24 said:


> Cool!
> Anyone want to sell their Asura 2.0?


 
  
 Just remembered a comment I made in this thread on 24-FEB-17 -
 "_I've been impressed with the Mantis C7 (currently $12.77 on AliExpress).  It's Bass impact and range are nearly equivalent to my VE Asura 2.0 (2.5TRRS), which was $88._"
  
 And, from the Budget Earbuds thread, on 22-FEB-17 -
 "_The C7 seems to have nearly as much Low Bass as the Asura (which is currently my favorite earbud), and the C7 sounds like it has similar clarity and detail in the Bass - which is pretty amazing, since I'm comparing a $13 earbud with an $88 unit._
_..._
_Switching over to the Chesky Ultimate Headphone Demonstration Disc (24-Bit / 192-KHz), recorded with the B&K Binaural Head Mic, and listening to several different vocal tracks - it appears that the C7 has a Mid-Bass hump, which adds some warmth to the voices.  Also noticed this on regular (16-Bit / 44.1-KHz) CD flac files.  I don't find it objectionable._"
  
  
 I'm listening to the Mantis C7 today, after listening to the Asura 2 yesterday, and I still believe my comments are accurate.  And, the Mantis C7 is currently $10.83.


----------



## weedophile

laughmoredaily said:


> Which seller and model did you buy?
> 
> I bought these but I don't have them yet:
> 
> ...


 
 i got them from taobao, just off the shell drivers. I doubt they are the original as the sound isnt the best from what i have heard lol


----------



## weedophile

Uncle @DBaldock9, u got me wanting to place an order for one since i dont own the Asura. 14.2mm drivers which is pretty small and i doubt the smallest PK2 shells can fit those drivers in if we think abt modding the cable hmmm. Anw are the cables good enough?


----------



## DBaldock9

weedophile said:


> Uncle @DBaldock9, u got me wanting to place an order for one since i dont own the Asura. 14.2mm drivers which is pretty small and i doubt the smallest PK2 shells can fit those drivers in if we think abt modding the cable hmmm. Anw are the cables good enough?


 
  
 If you don't want to wait for an AliExpress shipment, the C7 is sold under the Celebrat band name, for $12.95 on Amazon - https://smile.amazon.com/Celebrat-C7-Earphones-Gray/dp/B06XDKY4XD


----------



## weedophile

dbaldock9 said:


> If you don't want to wait for an AliExpress shipment, the C7 is sold under the Celebrat band name, for $12.95 on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/Celebrat-C7-Earphones-Gray/dp/B06XDKY4XD


 
 Amazon's shipping to SG will make the buds much more exp than AE. I can probably wait abit though


----------



## ctaxxxx

For anyone interested, I am selling my Cypherus Blue Darth earbuds (see signature). Ordered these before I decided to stick with IEMs for bass music.


----------



## bar3336

Can't find it on AE, do you have a link?


----------



## bar3336

dbaldock9 said:


> Just remembered a comment I made in this thread on 24-FEB-17 -
> "_I've been impressed with the Mantis C7 (currently $12.77 on AliExpress).  It's Bass impact and range are nearly equivalent to my VE Asura 2.0 (2.5TRRS), which was $88._"
> 
> And, from the Budget Earbuds thread, on 22-FEB-17 -
> ...




Can't find the link to the mantis c7 on AE, can you provide the link?


----------



## KcLKcL

Whatever happened to my Qian39?

All of a sudden I'm starting to enjoy it. Used to place this as my least favorite earbud out of my collection lol

And comfort wise, it's also the most comfortable earbud I've used!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

weedophile said:


> i got them from taobao, just off the shell drivers. I doubt they are the original as the sound isnt the best from what i have heard lol


 
 Did you buy the same NICEHCK DIY PK2 earbuds from Taobao? Aren't they any good? That's too bad and I guess it was a fail based on the consequence of buying them before everyone else.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

bar3336 said:


> Can't find the link to the mantis c7 on AE, can you provide the link?


 
 They are sold out on Aliexpress. If you can't find anything by searching on Ali, use Google.


----------



## bar3336

Got my zen 2.0, i guess that my ear hole is big, because i don't get a good seal/fit without foams, like with my monks... And it doesn't sound good at all, and heard that you shouldn't use foams with the zen because it changes the sound... So... Bummer


----------



## kvik

The ‘naked’ Zen 2.0 doesn’t work for me either. I wear it with cable up and behind ear, and with hooks holding it in place. The two together (position and hook) colours the sound in a way that I find attractive. You should experiment to find out what works for you. There is no law that says Zen 2.0 can only be worn ‘naked’ and with cable down.


----------



## noknok23

try the shirt clip, makes naked earbuds much more comfortable.


----------



## Robert Turnbull

jplay said:


> Hi,
> I'm new in this place.
> I need to buy foam for my earbuds. I own Monk+, Qian39, SHE3800, E808+ ecc.. VEMonk+'s foam breaks quickly. Need to order pairs that have a good life.
> I read variuios post in here but searching for advice is best.
> ...




I bought a ton of these!

10pairs Foam Earbud earphone ear buds Headphone Ear pads cushion Replacement Sponge Covers Tips For Earphone Hollow headphones
 http://s.aliexpress.com/viqy6B3Y 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## Saoshyant

bar3336 said:


> Can't find the link to the mantis c7 on AE, can you provide the link?


 
 Personally, I found the C7 to be quite boring.  Just nothing about it impressed me.  I prefer the Mantis Q6 which has a fairly fun sound for around half the cost of the C7.


----------



## weedophile

laughmoredaily said:


> Did you buy the same NICEHCK DIY PK2 earbuds from Taobao? Aren't they any good? That's too bad and I guess it was a fail based on the consequence of buying them before everyone else.




I didnt tried those too. Dont write them off yet, they might become good after u tweak them abit. Actually i cabled 2 of them and the other one i actually put some blu tack in the housing with some cotton. Makes them less hollow but still lacking something.

bar3336 just use some donuts if u have as it doesnt alter much of the sound presentation and gives a better seal. Otherwise u can use the rubber rings tho its not really comfortable.

Anw i am starting to prefer the E808+ above the SHE3800 and Qian39 now. These jap buds just sound amazing. And probably the most balanced among the 3.


----------



## flamesofarctica

bar3336 said:


> Got my zen 2.0, i guess that my ear hole is big, because i don't get a good seal/fit without foams, like with my monks... And it doesn't sound good at all, and heard that you shouldn't use foams with the zen because it changes the sound... So... Bummer




Worth experimenting with the rubber rings, or if they're too thick, carefully cutting the fins off the other rings (the ring bit itself is thinner). Personally I like them best without anything if I can, but I can't move about or anything in that case. 

What don't you like about the sound? Or is that mostly influenced by the fit?


----------



## bar3336

Don't hear much of a difference between the monks+ and the zen... But i guess fit is the problem... When i push them with my hands... They sound better, but don't know if better than the monks... Guess i was waiting to be blown away... And wasn't


----------



## Luan Dee

@bar3336
what source or source/amp are you using? i think ive read accounts on here that the zen 2 can be picky with amps. also, there are buds that definitely improves after burn in. im not a believer in burn in at first but my experience proved otherwise. also, play around with foams, positions like what have been suggested above because we have different ear sizes and shape, different setup can have different effect in each of us
edit: i can feel your frustration though. zen 2.0 is currently one of the totl buds and if it doesnt sound a bit different compared to their lowest model that sucks. i believe your setup isnt optimized yet to reach its full potential or you've got a lemon. you should hear improved sound from totl buds compared to budget ones. from my experiences at least, when i had the cygnus monks sounded thin and meh, like layers of sound and life of vocals are missing, i never picked it up again. and trying out campfred made me feel 'wow' for the bass which is lacking in cygnus at first, vocals is still better in cygnus for me though. there's lots to try out that can easily be played by phone but thats for others here to confirm. would also help if you post here music genres you listen to


----------



## kovik

laughmoredaily said:


> bar3336 said:
> 
> 
> > Can't find the link to the mantis c7 on AE, can you provide the link?
> ...




I found this:
Professional 14.2mm NDFEB Drive Unit HiFi in ear Earphone Music Stereo Noise Cancelling Earphones With Mic for xiaomi Phone MP3
 http://s.aliexpress.com/qMjMnMR7


----------



## bar3336

I think maybe the differences between the monks+ and zen maybe are more subtle than i first thought or what the price difference led me to believe.. But actually it isn't there or worth the extra money spent


----------



## ctaxxxx

bar3336 said:


> Don't hear much of a difference between the monks+ and the zen... But i guess fit is the problem... When i push them with my hands... They sound better, but don't know if better than the monks... Guess i was waiting to be blown away... And wasn't


 
 That's because you are getting a better seal. Why not use the foams? Some of Zen's appeal is the bass, which you mostly lose when going naked. I never saw the appeal in using earbuds naked. You lose too much bass, especially if there was not much to begin with.
  
 Also, I would recommend a bright (and powerful) source and using thin foams. I feel that the Zen's are too warm as it is.


----------



## Ira Delphic

bar3336 said:


> I think maybe the differences between the monks+ and zen maybe are more subtle than i first thought or what the price difference led me to believe.. But actually it isn't there or worth the extra money spent


 
  
 Lee from VE Clan has said said in the past that there isn't a huge difference between the Monk (not sure if the original or the +) and the high impedance VE earbuds. He said higher Ohm are offered because that's what people want, and willing to pay for. They think higher Ohm=higher quality. No doubt teh Zen is better than the Monk+, but how much better is it? Since we don't do blind listening tests we may never know.


----------



## Luan Dee

I've yet to try it but based from what I've been seeing so far in reviews, another contender for low impedance, all arounder, above the budget realm is the Rose Masya. Only 12ohms. Latest review here: http://www.head-fi.org/products/rose-masya/reviews/18370


----------



## mochill

No one has ep350


----------



## headjelly

Hey, is there a pocket/portable DAP which you would recommend to portable use with high-impedance earbuds, such as TY650, Puresounds 600 and Yinman 500. I am considering a Caiyn n3, but I am not sure whether it's own amping is powerful enough and I am unwilling to carry a "sandwich" around. I do own a Walnut and I hate the piercing upper mids of the second-generation fiios.


----------



## Spider fan

bar3336 said:


> Got my zen 2.0, i guess that my ear hole is big, because i don't get a good seal/fit without foams, like with my monks... And it doesn't sound good at all, and heard that you shouldn't use foams with the zen because it changes the sound... So... Bummer


 

 Mine sounded thin and sometimes shrilly until I started using the rubber rings.  After, I started using them it added bass and fullness to the midrange.  Personally, I dont like using the earhooks because they block the ports on the back.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

ira delphic said:


> No doubt teh Zen is better than the Monk+, but how much better is it? Since we don't do blind listening tests we may never know.


 
 The best blind tests are done with an actual blind person because when you lose one of the five senses the other ones perk up, so I hear.


----------



## DBaldock9

bar3336 said:


> Can't find the link to the mantis c7 on AE, can you provide the link?


 

 That's weird, since I did check the AliExpress store I bought from (ZS echoes Store), before making my post - that's how I knew the price had dropped to $10.83.
  
 However, I do see now on the listing, that the C7 isn't currently available.  But as I also posted - the same unit is available on Amazon under its actual brand name, of Celebrat C7, for ~$13.


----------



## nsk1

Nobody interested in Blox B320 and Blue De'mun? I got it for sale.


----------



## flamesofarctica

headjelly said:


> Hey, is there a pocket/portable DAP which you would recommend to portable use with high-impedance earbuds, such as TY650, Puresounds 600 and Yinman 500. I am considering a Caiyn n3, but I am not sure whether it's own amping is powerful enough and I am unwilling to carry a "sandwich" around. I do own a Walnut and I hate the piercing upper mids of the second-generation fiios.




Aigo Z6 claims 16-600 ohms bit I'll let you know when I get it. Also have a Cayin N5 on the way. No idea why I went so mad :-D but I'll let you know!

Hidizs AP60 with Walnut as amp is a 'sandwich', but a compact sandwich.


----------



## Narayan23

kclkcl said:


> Whatever happened to my Qian39?
> 
> All of a sudden I'm starting to enjoy it. Used to place this as my least favorite earbud out of my collection lol
> 
> And comfort wise, it's also the most comfortable earbud I've used!


 
 I second your opinion, if I could I´d even shower with the Quian´s, hard to see it getting much better than they are.


----------



## leobigfield

bar3336 said:


> I think maybe the differences between the monks+ and zen maybe are more subtle than i first thought or what the price difference led me to believe.. But actually it isn't there or worth the extra money spent




Don't forget that Zen needs a lot of power ti really shine.


----------



## bar3336

leobigfield said:


> Don't forget that Zen needs a lot of power ti really shine.


 
 i have a lot of power - the liitle dot I + amp - i mean it sounds good and nice - with donut foams - but i don't hear a difference between them and VE monks - paid 145$ more to get the same sound?


----------



## flamesofarctica

bar3336 said:


> i have a lot of power - the liitle dot I + amp - i mean it sounds good and nice - with donut foams - but i don't hear a difference between them and VE monks - paid 145$ more to get the same sound?




What kinds of music, as to me they sound quite different. But quite dependant on the music style. Vocal driven, or classic rock, nice big productions (Def Leopard Hysteria sounds wow), that sort of thing. Nothing lo-fi, and nothing with death metal vocals for example.


----------



## leobigfield

bar3336 said:


> i have a lot of power - the liitle dot I + amp - i mean it sounds good and nice - with donut foams - but i don't hear a difference between them and VE monks - paid 145$ more to get the same sound?




That's really... Strange? o__O


----------



## DBaldock9

headjelly said:


> Hey, is there a pocket/portable DAP which you would recommend to portable use with high-impedance earbuds, such as TY650, Puresounds 600 and Yinman 500. I am considering a Caiyn n3, but I am not sure whether it's own amping is powerful enough and I am unwilling to carry a "sandwich" around. I do own a Walnut and I hate the piercing upper mids of the second-generation fiios.


 
  
 I was listening to my K's 500 most of today at work, connected to my Cayin N3, playing FLAC files of CD rips.
 They sound fine using Medium or High Gain, and Low Gain will work, but the Volume has to be turned most of the way up.
  
 130mW per channel @ 32ohm is a good amount of output for a budget model DAP.
 The much more expensive DP-X1 has 150mW per channel @ 32ohm on the Balanced output, and 75mW on the Single-ended output.
  
 You might also consider the new, soon to be released, Shanling M2s.  I'm not sure about the output power, but it looks like it's going to be a good unit.


----------



## chaiyuta

headjelly said:


> Hey, is there a pocket/portable DAP which you would recommend to portable use with high-impedance earbuds, such as TY650, Puresounds 600 and Yinman 500. I am considering a Caiyn n3, but I am not sure whether it's own amping is powerful enough and I am unwilling to carry a "sandwich" around. I do own a Walnut and I hate the piercing upper mids of the second-generation fiios.


 
  
 I use iBasso DX200 + Puresounds 500 Pop Balanced at High gain and Volume 95/150. No need to use amp. It works fine.


----------



## Robert Turnbull

bar3336 said:


> Can't find it on AE, do you have a link?




Professional 14.2mm NDFEB Drive Unit HiFi in ear Earphone Music Stereo Noise Cancelling Earphones With Mic for xiaomi Phone MP3
 http://s.aliexpress.com/BFJ3uamQ 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## bar3336

I've been using my xiaomi redmi note 4 with tidal and it sounds great with monks+, was wondering what sort of dac it has? Should i use a separate dac/amp with mobile use?


----------



## DBaldock9

bar3336 said:


> I've been using my xiaomi redmi note 4 with tidal and it sounds great with monks+, was wondering what sort of dac it has? Should i use a separate dac/amp with mobile use?


 
  
 From the PhoneArena website -
 ~~~
Description The Xiaomi Redmi Note 4 is equipped with a 5.5-inch screen (with 2.5D glass) carrying a resolution of 1080 x 1920. A Snapdragon 625 chipset is under the hood featuring an octa-core 2.0GHz CPU. A fingerprint scanner is found underneath the 13MP rear-facing camera, and a 5MP camera in front handles selfies and video chats. A 4100mAh battery will keep the lights on.
 ~~~


----------



## lescanadiens

Hello All,
Just wondering if anybody had made any comparison of Shozy BK with other top tiers like Qfred, Camfred, Edimun, etc?

Thanks in advance


----------



## luedriver

more than a while back it was suggested to use earmuffs to create a seal around the ear, today I just saw this video on...
  
How to Make Cheap Earbuds Sound Like $200 Headphones
  
 which basically says you the same thing, it tells you to use iems but then says any earbuds are fine, I guess when using noise-protection earmuffs it doesn't really matter


----------



## noknok23

Attention: Puresound easier to drive than ty/seahf.


----------



## musicday

Is there a way to remove the metal splitter on the Monk Capucinno earbuds? Is too heavy and i don't like it,as it pulls them down when i walk.


----------



## ctaxxxx

lescanadiens said:


> Hello All,
> Just wondering if anybody had made any comparison of Shozy BK with other top tiers like Qfred, Camfred, Edimun, etc?
> 
> Thanks in advance




See signature for my Earbuds Comparison List.


----------



## Ira Delphic

luedriver said:


> more than a while back it was suggested to use earmuffs to create a seal around the ear, today I just saw this video on...
> 
> How to Make Cheap Earbuds Sound Like $200 Headphones
> 
> which basically says you the same thing, it tells you to use iems but then says any earbuds are fine, I guess when using noise-protection earmuffs it doesn't really matter




That was my suggestion lol. Only smallish ear buds are comfortable. One downside, if they fall out with the earmuffs on, annoying to reposition. But can be sublime for outdoor running, etc.

Edit: I just had a chance to watch the video. A few good tips - cord over ear to keep them in place and the cord entering the rear of the earmuffs. Excellent when I want to audition new earbuds and am in a noisy environment, but lately outdoors my cheap 1MORE MK801 over ear are pretty amazing considering the price, and burn in made a huge difference.


----------



## headjelly

noknok23 said:


> Attention: Puresound easier to drive than ty/seahf.


 
  
 Which Puresounds and which TY?


----------



## lescanadiens

Thanks man!
Will read after this 



ctaxxxx said:


> See signature for my Earbuds Comparison List.


----------



## one1speed

dbaldock9 said:


> I was listening to my K's 500 most of today at work, connected to my Cayin N3, playing FLAC files of CD rips.
> They sound fine using Medium or High Gain, and Low Gain will work, but the Volume has to be turned most of the way up.
> 
> 130mW per channel @ 32ohm is a good amount of output for a budget model DAP.
> ...


 

 This is interesting, was wondering what kind of power is needed for some of the higher ohm buds. I've considered K's 500 and the Yinman 600, but didn't know if my amp had enough power. If you're ok with 130mW, Imay be ok, as I'm seeing in the specs that my Concero HP puts out 270mW @ 32ohms, though is only 22.75mW @ 600ohms. Now sure how the 22.75 would translate to a higher ohm bud. That said, I am noting that many of the higher ohm buds are also very sensitive, so probably don't need a ton of power to drive them.


----------



## noknok23

Puresound 600 Vs ty 650. You are going to be disappointed if you use ty 650 on a 130mw at 32 ohms output (sound thin, lack of bass) but puresound 600 just fine imo


----------



## Saoshyant

I'm hoping I'll have a mobile setup for Yinman 600 which will arrive at some point. If not, I'll just have to use transportable.


----------



## artnoi

Do you think my Nuforce Icon Mobile (80milW/c at 16ohms) will be able to drive 64 ohm buds, say, Monk+? If so, should I use high gain??
Thanks in advance all u earbud gurus )


----------



## noknok23

Monk+ loves power, the more the better. sounds good on weak source, awesome on powerful one. (I tried on Walnut, RA+ high gain)
  
 I'm interested to know how well yinman 600 is drivable too


----------



## 93EXCivic

What is an earbud that is comparable in sound signature to the the T-Music V2 but the next step up the ladder so to speak? The T-Music V2 has been by far my favorite cheaper earbud out of Ty Hi-Z 32ohm, Monk +, T- Music V1 and SHE3800.
  
 Thinking in the $50-$100 range.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Came back from the audiologist today. According to her, there seemed to be no signs of hearing loss! Still wondering why the Cypherus Blue Darth sounds so imbalanced. It's either:
  
 - Heavily fit dependent due to its bass heavy signature
 - Actually imbalanced...
 - My TMJ, that causes a swollen right ear canal that makes IEMs difficult. Maybe it accentuates bass?
 - All in my head and I'm going crazy
  
 I'm guessing 1 and 3.


----------



## noknok23

Did you tried to pinch your nose and close your mouth and blow heavily lol


----------



## 1TrickPony

noknok23 said:


> Did you tried to pinch your nose and close your mouth and blow heavily lol




I sneezed through my eyes like that (inadvertently). yeah. it was painful.


----------



## ctaxxxx

noknok23 said:


> Did you tried to pinch your nose and close your mouth and blow heavily lol


 
 If it were that simple, I wouldn't have bothered with the audiologist... It was something I've been suspecting for a while, but the Blue Darth made it really obvious. I had a little more trouble with the hearing test in my left, but the sounds were still audible so she gave me a pass. No telling if it will get worse. I already have bad tinnitus. Already selling my basshead cans, since its the bass notes I'm having trouble with.


----------



## Saoshyant

Luckily my tinnitus isn't bad. Just use fans a lot to mask the noise.


----------



## herzhz

been log since the last time i posted something here. i hope its okay to post te 'blue' here^^


----------



## Danneq

Cool! New ABnormal earbud! What's the name? Ohm? Can it compete with Diomnes?


----------



## luedriver

kinda earbud related, kinda not
  
 used to use a cheap subwoofer that had a 3.5mm jack output for small speakers for a makeshift headphone amp
  
 the specs say it has 2.5 W x 2 for probably 4-8ohms (I don't remember and don't have the speakers on hand to see)
  
 how does the power scale for anything that has more ohm resistance 32, 64, 150, 320, 650?
  
 tried looking up some kind of calculator online but can't find any
  
 am listening to my iphone via the subwoofer amp as I write this down using my tdk eb90's, I have to turn up the volume much more than any other earbud that's under 100 ohm as these have the lowest sensitivity of all my earbuds, but I can't say that I hate them, I actually kinda like them, but they can't compare to monk or ty hi-z
  
 just curious I use my smsl m3 dac/headphone amp now but always wondered...


----------



## DBaldock9

luedriver said:


> kinda earbud related, kinda not
> 
> used to use a cheap subwoofer that had a 3.5mm jack output for small speakers for a makeshift headphone amp
> 
> ...


 
  
 A good rule of thumb (using Ohm's Law) is - For every doubling of impedance, the power drops by half.
 Going the other way - For every halving of impedance, the power doubles - but only if the output transistors and power supply voltage & current are capable of doing so.


----------



## ctaxxxx

saoshyant said:


> Luckily my tinnitus isn't bad. Just use fans a lot to mask the noise.


 

 Fans definitely help, though mine might be too noisy...
  
  


danneq said:


> Cool! New ABnormal earbud! What's the name? Ohm? Can it compete with Diomnes?


 
 Curious about this as well. Danneq knows his buds, and I missed out on Diomnes.


----------



## AkashS04

Someone ordered *UiiSii U2* few weeks back. Did you receive them? Any review?


----------



## bar3336

What are recommended donut foams? Where do i buy from? From my experience the donuts foams sound best


----------



## DBaldock9

bar3336 said:


> What are recommended donut foams? Where do i buy from? From my experience the donuts foams sound best


 
  
 If you want a thicker foam, the Hiegi donut foams from Penon Audio are good.  I've bought both Black & White.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hiegi-High-Quality-White-or-Black-Donut-Foam-Cushions-for-Earphones-Earbuds-6-pairs/32642830876.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hiegi-High-Quality-White-Donut-Foam-Cushions-for-Earphones-Earbuds-6-pairs/32643161126.html


----------



## bar3336

dbaldock9 said:


> If you want a thicker foam, the Hiegi donut foams from Penon Audio are good.  I've bought both Black & White.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hiegi-High-Quality-White-or-Black-Donut-Foam-Cushions-for-Earphones-Earbuds-6-pairs/32642830876.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hiegi-High-Quality-White-Donut-Foam-Cushions-for-Earphones-Earbuds-6-pairs/32643161126.html




Are they the same as the extra pack That comes with monks?


----------



## one1speed

dbaldock9 said:


> If you want a thicker foam, the Hiegi donut foams from Penon Audio are good.  I've bought both Black & White.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hiegi-High-Quality-White-or-Black-Donut-Foam-Cushions-for-Earphones-Earbuds-6-pairs/32642830876.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hiegi-High-Quality-White-Donut-Foam-Cushions-for-Earphones-Earbuds-6-pairs/32643161126.html


 

 They have Heigi foams at Amazon as well, though am unsure if they have the donut foams.


----------



## DBaldock9

bar3336 said:


> Are they the same as the extra pack That comes with monks?


 
  
 They do seem to have a similar thickness and feel.
 I suppose VE could be using Hiegi foams (or buying directly from the factory that produces Hiegi foams).


----------



## kartik7405

bar3336 said:


> Are they the same as the extra pack That comes with monks?


 
 The VE Foams are thinner foams;they did not affect any sound mainly mids.
 Heigi are thicker foams;if you want to minimise the forward mids/treble;go with heigi;otherwise VE foam are best retaining natural sound and help bud  for proper fitting no other coloration to sound.


----------



## Cyperus

Sharing Review from Philippines ....

https://thetechkaiju.com/2017/03/17/bus-ride-impression-earbuds-battle-royale-above-100-earbuds/#more-2602


----------



## ctaxxxx

What's a good *mid-centric* earbud *with a mic* for taking calls? I was thinking the E1008, but online impressions describe it being bassy with recessed mids. Not ideal for calls... Preferably under $100.


----------



## AmaZinger

Call for 1more EO320 owners: do your earbuds have absolute awful mic? Because mine do. I just wonder will it get better if I buy another pair.
P.S. Can you guys recomnend decent earbuds with 3-button control? Except Monk+ and 1more EO320 obviously.


----------



## golov17

ctaxxxx said:


> What's a good *mid-centric* earbud *with a mic* for taking calls? I was thinking the E1008, but online impressions describe it being bassy with recessed mids. Not ideal for calls... Preferably under $100.


Blue ever blue 328RM, Edifier H186P, H190P


----------



## luedriver

just saw special edition monks called Monk Plus Bloody Orange Edition, on facebook, they cost 50USD and use Junkosha red silver-plated cable 
  


> will be listing them in 24 hours~ and the sale goes live in about 48hours


 
  
  

  
  
 in the photo they're balanced, maybe they have normal also, idk
  
  
  
link


----------



## Suwarna

Just wanna update that i finally take the shot and get yinman 600. Arrived today and out of the box sound give me a WOW !! Sound like using full size headphone. Fitting is bit big for my ear but how it sound pay off a bit. Will try to hear it several days and update further impression.


----------



## Luan Dee

@Suwarna awesome! what source and amp are you using? do you have other totl buds to compare it to?


----------



## hellfire8888

is yinman 150 good? any impression?


----------



## ctaxxxx

golov17 said:


> Blue ever blue 328RM, Edifier H186P, H190P


 

 That BEB bud sounds interesting. Wished they sold the mic version on Amazon.
  
 Does anyone make a detachable cable that includes a mic? For example, if I got a *2 pin connector cable w/ mic* for a Rose Masya? That would give me an excuse to buy one >.>
  
 Edit: Or an MMCX w/ mic for a Yinman 600?... Someone please say yes...
  
 Edit 2: Found a bunch of MMCX cables with mics on Amazon and Ali, but 2 pin is trickier. Not much at all.


----------



## rkw

suwarna said:


> Just wanna update that i finally take the shot and get yinman 600. Arrived today and out of the box sound give me a WOW !! Sound like using full size headphone. Fitting is bit big for my ear but how it sound pay off a bit. Will try to hear it several days and update further impression.


 
  
 I think I'm the only other one to post about Yinman 600, and I do love it. For me, the fitting is not so much about the size but its shape, which makes it easy to fall out of my ear. It sits securely when I use two foams (a donut and a thin full cover).
  
 It needs good power and keeps sounding better as you give it more. From my Jotunheim I got a nice jump in performance switching to a balanced cable. Directly out of a MacBook Pro, the volume is loud enough but the sound loses liveliness.


----------



## flamesofarctica

hellfire8888 said:


> is yinman 150 good? any impression?




Brief inpressions - Its a good all rounder, responds well to a bit of power. Sounds great with rock and metal. It's lighter and more comfortable than it looks, one of the most comfortable earbuds I have to be honest. Not an earbud you would think 'wow, such clarity', but great soundstage. Percussion and bassline sounds great through these with rock music. A level above the budget earbuds in my opinion (and that's not always the case in the price range its at).


----------



## audionewbi

Truth be told I have never been into Earbuds as I found no particular way to use them for my lifestyle. However lately due to my love of Kaede II and disappointment in the current IEM lineup I decided to look into earbuds. For my first earbuds since when I was a teenager I bought a product that is currently in beta stage. I bought it despite been in beta stage as the designer of this IEM I highly trust. He is currently not sure on whether he wants to go public as the entire project is hand made. He hand selected the cable which where so good I had to ask him to make a mmcx cable for me.
 The driver is tuned to his liking, it goes under 40 hour of burnin, the divider is hand twisted copper wire, it is *300 ohm*.
  
 The sound reminds me of HD600, frankly it is as open sound as HD600. It needs a bit of juice to sound its best, however I find it as engaging from my laptop. For those who like the typical audiophile recording this IEM will sound very special. 

 Without his permission I have posted this, hoping this will encourage him to do something with one of his many ideas he has. I will post more pictures and impression after I stop enjoying my time. I got up 5 AM and played all my Sting/police albums and now it is 7:42 AM.

 Price range is undecided but I paid a total of 300 SGD for both items.


----------



## Fabi

audionewbi said:


> Truth be told I have never been into Earbuds as I found no particular way to use them for my lifestyle. However lately due to my love of Kaede II and disappointment in the current IEM lineup I decided to look into earbuds. For my first earbuds since when I was a teenager I bought a product that is currently in beta stage. I bought it despite been in beta stage as the designer of this IEM I highly trust. He is currently not sure on whether he wants to go public as the entire project is hand made. He hand selected the cable which where so good I had to ask him to make a mmcx cable for me.
> The driver is tuned to his liking, it goes under 40 hour of burnin, the divider is hand twisted copper wire, it is 300 ohm.
> 
> The sound reminds me of HD600, frankly it is as open sound as HD600. It needs a bit of juice to sound its best, however I find it as engaging from my laptop. For those who like the typical audiophile recording this IEM will sound very special.
> ...


 
  
 Not the ones with silver housing shells ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Very interested to read your thoughts of them.


----------



## audionewbi

fabi said:


> Not the ones with silver housing shells ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes that was one of his project but he made for his friends (Unless someone else did it too). The housing was made by someone else. At the moment he was ideas to use Brass and silver. Brass seems to produce a smoother tonality but for now he is still in trial phase.
  
 The one I have come with a simple plastic housing.


----------



## CharlesRievone

audionewbi said:


> He is currently not sure on whether he wants to go public as the entire project is hand made. He hand selected the cable which where so good I had to ask him to make a mmcx cable for me.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...




Definitely a fan of the design. Those who have facebook should already know who this builder is. The "signature" splitter gives it away


----------



## ctaxxxx

rkw said:


> I think I'm the only other one to post about Yinman 600, and I do love it. For me, the fitting is not so much about the size but its shape, which makes it easy to fall out of my ear. It sits securely when I use two foams (a donut and a thin full cover).
> 
> It needs good power and keeps sounding better as you give it more. From my Jotunheim I got a nice jump in performance switching to a balanced cable. Directly out of a MacBook Pro, the volume is loud enough but the sound loses liveliness.


 
 Can you share a pic of what the connection looks like on the Yinman 600 (not the cable). The mic cable I'm looking at is not perfectly round near the base (see 3rd image):
  
 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MMCX-SE215-Cable-with-MIC-Single-Crystal-Copper-Wire-Detachable-Cords-for-Shure-SE215-SE315/32756654166.html)


----------



## Suwarna

luan dee said:


> @Suwarna
> awesome! what source and amp are you using? do you have other totl buds to compare it to?




@Luan, i am using fiio x5ii coax out to mojo. I have k's500. Sound is different. K's 500 is also awesome, i love it too. Think need seeverla days to come out with comparison. Now i only want to enjoy it


----------



## Suwarna

rkw said:


> I think I'm the only other one to post about Yinman 600, and I do love it. For me, the fitting is not so much about the size but its shape, which makes it easy to fall out of my ear. It sits securely when I use two foams (a donut and a thin full cover).
> 
> It needs good power and keeps sounding better as you give it more. From my Jotunheim I got a nice jump in performance switching to a balanced cable. Directly out of a MacBook Pro, the volume is loud enough but the sound loses liveliness.




Indeed and that time really almost hold me to pull the trigger as i cannot find any other review, but i am glad i pull the trigger . Still waiiting my desktop amp (aune s16) to come and currently only using mojo to power it. 

Is the sound darker for double foaming ? I am currently using donut foam.


----------



## rkw

ctaxxxx said:


> Can you share a pic of what the connection looks like on the Yinman 600 (not the cable). The mic cable I'm looking at is not perfectly round near the base (see 3rd image):
> 
> (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MMCX-SE215-Cable-with-MIC-Single-Crystal-Copper-Wire-Detachable-Cords-for-Shure-SE215-SE315/32756654166.html)




I'll take some pictures tomorrow during the day, but it's standard MMCX and I don't see any reason it wouldn't work.


----------



## rkw

suwarna said:


> Is the sound darker for double foaming ? I am currently using donut foam.


 
  
 I'm using thin Monk foam over the donut. It makes a better seal in my ear and extends the low end, but doesn't change the character of the sound — neutral balance with extended highs and lows, fast and detailed. I listen primarily to classical music, and I continue to be impressed by its natural and realistic portrayal of live acoustic instruments.


----------



## Saoshyant

rkw said:


> I'll take some pictures tomorrow during the day, but it's standard MMCX and I don't see any reason it wouldn't work.


 
  
 The only possible issue is if the design of the earbud makes a cable with a larger head at the MMCX connection not fit well.  An example would be the DK-Song which has a similar body design and a a cable I bought for it that is a very snug fit.


----------



## herzhz

ctaxxxx said:


> Fans definitely help, though mine might be too noisy...
> 
> 
> Curious about this as well. Danneq knows his buds, and I missed out on Diomnes.


 

 actually, we still have one pair  available now
  
  


danneq said:


> Cool! New ABnormal earbud! What's the name? Ohm? Can it compete with Diomnes?


 

 Its just Limited Edition Modified Blue Monk+, good stuff for focal lovers.


----------



## ctaxxxx

herzhz said:


> actually, we still have one pair  available now


 
 SENT YOU A PM!


----------



## rkw

ctaxxxx said:


> Can you share a pic of what the connection looks like on the Yinman 600 (not the cable).


 
  
 Here is the MMCX connector on Yinman 600.
  


  
 With stock connector and cable:

  
  
 My balanced cable with Eidolic MMCX connector.

  
 Since you're looking at cables with mic, I guess that means you want to use this 600 ohm earbud directly on a phone. I've tried it on a Galaxy S7 and it isn't bad but needs more power to fully come to life.


----------



## ctaxxxx

rkw said:


> _Here is the MMCX connector on Yinman 600._
> _With stock connector and cable:_
> _My balanced cable with Eidolic MMCX connector._
> 
> Since you're looking at cables with mic, I guess that means you want to use this 600 ohm earbud directly on a phone. I've tried it on a Galaxy S7 and it isn't bad but *needs more power* to fully come to life.


 
  
 Ah, I totally forgot about that. Got too excited about purchasing the Yinman's. I might have to settle for the BeB buds mentioned earlier or maybe some cheap apple buds. I have trouble getting a fit with the Rose Mojito, so I might skip the Masya too.


----------



## golov17




----------



## silverfishla

How do they sound though? I bought some DIY PK1's that weren't so wonderful sounding. The build was good though.


----------



## golov17

Unknown new stuff


----------



## BloodyPenguin

A huge shout out to Mr. *Wong Kuan Wae *and his new "*Blur 魔女*":
  
 Amazing earbud. Clarity is just fantastic. Vocals are up front and hauntingly good. Soundstage is well above average. Highs have the smoothest detail, never bright and definitely not fatiguing. Bass is on the lighter side, but what can be heard down low is perfectly controlled. The signature can be classified as the slightest bit mid-centric and the tuning is spot on for this type sound.
  
 Build is unique, as there is a hefty coil near the Y splitter. This added weight to the cord allows the earbuds to sit firmly down in the ears. The cable is thinner and a little springy. The housing are clear and are marked by tubes of red and blue for correct stereo sound balance.
  
  The *Blur 魔女* is EASY recommendation from me. I just can't get over the wonderful precision of the playback.
  
 If this type of earbud interest you, just hit up *Wong Kuan Wae* directly.
  

  

  

  
 --


----------



## nmatheis

Sounds like I'd need *MOAR BASS*, lol...


----------



## nmatheis

Listening to the last song in Sigur Ros's live YouTube set with the Los Angeles Philharmonic with balanced VE Zen 2.0 out of Aune S6 DAC/Amp. So nice!


----------



## fairx

I asked in another thread but I guess it really should be asked here.

 how's Yinman shell in terms of comfortable in ear.? 

It looks like Mr Z tomahawk that I own. Tomahawk is not quite comfortable. I can consider qian39 and edifier shell as really comfortable and monk style just OK. 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## golov17

fairx said:


> I asked in another thread but I guess it really should be asked here.
> 
> how's Yinman shell in terms of comfortable in ear.?
> 
> ...


 very good, really


----------



## Saoshyant

rkw said:


> Here is the MMCX connector on Yinman 600.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Glad to see no possible issue with the connector, as mine should be here next week.


----------



## Suwarna

fairx said:


> I asked in another thread but I guess it really should be asked here.
> 
> how's Yinman shell in terms of comfortable in ear.?
> 
> ...




I guess you having same issue with me, small ear hole . Yuin and qian 39 are most comfortable for me, mx500 shel, just OK. This yinman 600 have a different way to fit, although its flat shell quite big, but it doesnt nee dto go in our ear too deep and actually it kind of seal from outside sound. I feel listen more 'live' sound with their method of sealing . Hope it help


----------



## Suwarna

Hi Rkw, 

What is the spec of your balance cable with eidolic pin ? How much ?


----------



## fairx

Thanks for the answer guys. I guess the back of shell is different from Mr Z tomahawk. It's the back shell that I suspect hurting my ears.

Agreed that loose fitting is the way to go with earbud (at least it's my preference) especially mx500 shell type.


----------



## rkw

suwarna said:


> Hi Rkw,
> 
> What is the spec of your balance cable with eidolic pin ? How much ?


 
  
 I got it from Impact Audio Cables, which is frequently recommended in the head-fi community. You can get cheaper cables from Asia, but the owner Lindsay builds custom high quality cables at a reasonable price, and I like to support this type of cottage industry. I've ordered from him before and have always been happy with the quality.
  
 This is the listing: https://www.etsy.com/listing/230423524/custom-made-4-foot-silver-plated-copper. My cable with Eidolic MMCX and Eidolic 2.5 TRRS termination is $80. Everything is custom build-to-order and you can have it made to any spec you want. Orders take about 3 weeks. He normally makes this particular cable for IEM with over ear loop. If you just want it to hang straight down from the earpiece, be sure to ask for it.


----------



## mochill

http://tritonaudiocables.com


----------



## nmatheis

mochill said:


> http://tritonaudiocables.com




+1 for my man David from Seattle!!!


----------



## Doori

Hey guys, been a while I left earbuds for IEM. Want to taste again, is there interesting new earbuds behind 50 bucks? Like neutral or slighty mid-centric sig and Yuin like shell, but I'm really open to try anything if the quality is here.
Gonna be married with Dragonfly Black.
Thx!


----------



## Robert Turnbull

akashs04 said:


> Someone ordered *UiiSii U2* few weeks back. Did you receive them? Any review?


 
*Not worth i*t, it only looks nice... Its sounds OK on its own, but the moment you listen to a better bud such as SHE3800 etc, you can hear its not as clear.
  
 I am waiting for Yinman 150, HCK DIY Pk2 + Zishan Z1 DAP (moar power)
  
 Here is my current 'top list' of my buds, in my preference:
  
*1more EO320 - i feel its balance is really good overall (for my selection )*
*Edifier H180 - same signature as SHE3800, but a slight step up in all areas*
*SHE3800 / MDR-808+ - same quality, slightly different signatures*
 Qian39 - excellent in all except highs
 **** PT15 - unique sounding, needs EQ
 Monk+ - i want to merge this with the Quians 
  
 .
 .
 .
  
 Benjie K9 bud - i need more power to test this lol ..... 31/31 on the Benjie K9 and it sounds quiet, comparison i use the EO320 at 17/31, or 60/100 on the Shanling M1
 UiiSii U2 - sounds cheap
 RY04 - i don't like the signature...


----------



## audionewbi

It has been a great past 4 day break thanks to easter break. I have spend a good 20 hours with the Blur. It is just hard to imagine such sound can come from such a thing. To my ears anyone who likes the HD600 will instantly like the Blur. 

 After spending time with Blur I had a very hard time going back to my normal IEM. I hardly use headphone, I just dont know why. I keep buying them and I just rarely use them. But Blur changed that. I just couldnt go back to my IEM after Blur, thanks to it I am now back to my HD600. 
  
 Edit: I think i am slowly becoming an earbud user. I just cant transition to the close pressured feeling of IEM.


----------



## luedriver

sounds interesting, I wonder how they compare with the blox b320, with bloodypenguin's description and now yours, blur seems to be very similar as someone who is just reading about them on the internet...
  
 ...and has a pair of blox b320


----------



## audionewbi

luedriver said:


> sounds interesting, I wonder how they compare with the blox b320, with bloodypenguin's description and now yours, blur seems to be very similar as someone who is just reading about them on the internet...
> 
> ...and has a pair of blox b320


 
 I am not going to lie, I am very new with Earbuds. I am just too scared to look into earbuds too much. it will make me wonder why I was so focused into sealed IEM which cost much more than earbuds.
 I guess i can't use earbuds on busy buses?


----------



## Robert Turnbull

audionewbi said:


> I am not going to lie, I am very new with Earbuds. I am just too scared to look into earbuds too much. it will make me wonder why I was so focused into sealed IEM which cost much more than earbuds.
> I guess i can't use earbuds on busy buses?


 
 For myself I used earbuds @ night (quiet environments), and i use IEMs in the office  I find earbuds more comfortable by a long shot! ... But i still love my LZ A4, even if I have to re position it time to time!


----------



## luedriver

audionewbi said:


> I guess i can't use earbuds on busy buses?


 
 I use earbuds on buses, but recently have problems hearing music properly on bus (for obvious reasons) the earpods are much better for this reason and earpod shaped earbuds, but anything that has light bass will not work in noisy environments
  
 perhaps that and the fact that I liked my new nokias iems that I am a bit more open to iems now, even bought a ty hi-z g3 iem that have read that it sounds like an earbud, open wide soundstage and with light bass, not sure they would work too good on a bus though


----------



## Frederick Wang

Who else get one of those Docomo earbuds here? They are selling at a little bit more than 4 dollars on Taobao, just too unbelievable. 
  
 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-12750603070.44.xWQlTF&id=521991351143


----------



## AkashS04

robert turnbull said:


> *Not worth i*t, it only looks nice... Its sounds OK on its own, but the moment you listen to a better bud such as SHE3800 etc, you can hear its not as clear.
> 
> I am waiting for Yinman 150, HCK DIY Pk2 + Zishan Z1 DAP (moar power)
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the update. Sad that such nice looking bud failed where it actually matters. I guess it is time for other earbud manufacturers to take next step towards look of the earbud. It is not that they will look nice only, the comfort level will also enhanced automatically. I am sure U2 will be comfortable to wear, though, no use if they sound cheap.


----------



## Ira Delphic

audionewbi said:


> It has been a great past 4 day break thanks to easter break. I have spend a good 20 hours with the Blur. It is just hard to imagine such sound can come from such a thing. To my ears anyone who likes the HD600 will instantly like the Blur.
> 
> After spending time with Blur I had a very hard time going back to my normal IEM. I hardly use headphone, I just dont know why. I keep buying them and I just rarely use them. But Blur changed that. I just couldnt go back to my IEM after Blur, thanks to it I am now back to my HD600.
> 
> Edit: I think i am slowly becoming an earbud user. I just cant transition to the close pressured feeling of IEM.


 
  
 How did you find out about the Blur? Did you get a review copy, and if not, what is the price? Any idea of shipping to the US and what is the origin country?  Does the Blur cost $15, $150? $500? It would be nice to at least get a ballpark. I've seen the hype train before. Just curious where the first station is.


----------



## CharlesRievone

ira delphic said:


> How did you find out about the Blur? Did you get a review copy, and if not, what is the price? Any idea of shipping to the US and what is the origin country?  Does the Blur cost ₱742 (₱742 ($15)), ₱7,420 (₱7,420 ($150))? ₱24,734 (₱24,734 ($500))? It would be nice to at least get a ballpark. I've seen the hype train before. Just curious where the first station is.


 

 Contact "Wong Kuan Wae" on Facebook, he is the maker of these buds.
 Price he indicated on a thread from Earbuds Anonymous is 128 SGD (shipped worldwide via Singapore registered airmail).


----------



## BoomBap08

Good day, guys!

Just wanna get some recommendations for a "basshead" earbuds under $30-40.

I'm not really looking for boomy levels of bass, maybe just along the lines of the KZ iems bass, ZST to be exact (though I understand that it's not fair to compare iems to earbuds.

I've heard good things about the TY HI-Z 150ohms and the Auglamour rx1, I'm just not sure if these guys would fit the bill of what I'm looking for.


----------



## barbazz

boombap08 said:


> Just wanna get some recommendations for a "basshead" earbuds under $30-40.
> 
> I'm not really looking for boomy levels of bass, maybe just along the lines of the KZ iems bass, ZST to be exact (though I understand that it's not fair to compare iems to earbuds.
> 
> I've heard good things about the TY HI-Z 150ohms and the Auglamour rx1, I'm just not sure if these guys would fit the bill of what I'm looking for.


 
  
 Not boomy as in IEM boomy, but Yincrow X6 are probably the bassier I have in my small collection. The best overall are HE 150 (probably not far from TY 150, since they share the same manufacturer). Stay away from RX1 if you're looking for bass.


----------



## BoomBap08

@barbazz, thanks for the heads up! I've also read a comparo done by justin between those two.

Anyway, have you already tried the baldoor e100 or the quian39? I've heard that these guys got some quality lows.


----------



## CharlesRievone

boombap08 said:


> Good day, guys!
> 
> Just wanna get some recommendations for a "basshead" earbuds under ₱1,484 ($30)-40.


 
DIY EMX500
Qian39
 TY Hi-Z 32
  
 And yeah, RX1 is not for bassheads.


----------



## BoomBap08

@charles, thanks for the help!

actually, I already have a hi-z​ 32ohms which I really love to use for vocal-centric joints. Its midcentric sig and performance considering its price is just off the charts!

anyway, I'll also look into your recommendations as well. thanks!


----------



## CharlesRievone

@BoomBap08 Yeah scratch the TY 32 from that list, it's bassy for the lowest budget price range but you'll have better (bigger amount of) bass with the EMX500 and Qian39.
  
 The EMX500 is has more refined bass while the Qian39 has a rougher texture. Both are great for bassheads imho.


----------



## barbazz

boombap08 said:


> @barbazz, thanks for the heads up! I've also read a comparo done by justin between those two.
> 
> Anyway, have you already tried the baldoor e100 or the quian39? I've heard that these guys got some quality lows.


 
  
 Qian39 it's a good option for bassheads, but you'll get a darker sound. Since I do prefer a V-shaped sound, I miss the treble...
  
 I do prefer E100 for vocal or acoustic, mid-centric music, as they lack depth in bass. But YMMV, as I remember to read in the forum that the SQ is not uniform with E100s.


----------



## BoomBap08

@charles @barbazz, thanks guys!

really appreciate the help as I'm not really well-versed when it comes to earbuds as I'm more into iems. the isolation being much more superior on the latter makes it unusable for office use.


----------



## golov17

Newest LYRA??  









http://www.erji.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1984400


----------



## golov17

https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=545504629273&spm=a1z3o.7695283.0.0


----------



## Tomasz2D

golov17 said:


> Newest LYRA??


 
 So good news Oleg!
  
https://www.astrotecglobal.com/lyraclassic


----------



## Frederick Wang

Yinman 600ohm arrived this morning. 
 Bamboo case is a nice touch. 
 Very initial impression: lovely. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Saoshyant

frederick wang said:


> Yinman 600ohm arrived this morning.
> Bamboo case is a nice touch.
> Very initial impression: lovely.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm slightly annoyed it doesn't match up with the Aliexpress pictures, as mine just arrived too.  Different cable & case.  Guess they just did a revision.


----------



## Frederick Wang

saoshyant said:


> I'm slightly annoyed it doesn't match up with the Aliexpress pictures, as mine just arrived too.  Different cable & case.  Guess they just did a revision.


 
 The pictures on Aliexpress are better than those on Taobao. Mine is consistent with the taobao pic though. 
 On Aliexpress there are serial number and what seems to be Tibetan silverware style splitter. I guess you are right, they probably did a slightly simplified version, but the Aliexpress distributor didn't change pics.


----------



## Saoshyant

frederick wang said:


> The pictures on Aliexpress are better than those on Taobao. Mine is consistent with the taobao pic though.
> On Aliexpress there are serial number and what seems to be Tibetan silverware style splitter. I guess you are right, they probably did a slightly simplified version, but the Aliexpress distributor didn't change pics.




It's my first time trying Yinman, and went in clueless to sound balancing. It works for some of my music, but starts to distort if I EQ for trip hop. So unfortunately, it won't work as an all-arounder, but I still have a lot of use for it.


----------



## 93EXCivic

Does anyone else own the T-Music V2s? I have been really enjoying mine to the point where all my other earbuds never get touched (Monk +, SHE3800, Hi-Z 32ohm and T-Music V1).
  
 I guess I will look for the next step up soon. I tend to go for mid focused (HD600) or brighter headphones (Grados). Is there anything in the next step up in terms of price that would be worth getting ($30-$80)? Also it needs to be able to be driven off either my LG V20 or a FiiO Q1.


----------



## AkashS04

As we are talking about Basshead and Boomy earbud, any recommendation with Mic option? Also, I have SHE3800 which is good so if no better option available, then I will probably order SHE3800 with Mic. Or if Edifier P180 is better than SHE3800 in terms of boominess and warmness and also some more clarity (but not harsh or fatigue), then I can order that. Pls advise.


----------



## golov17

93excivic said:


> Does anyone else own the T-Music V2s? I have been really enjoying mine to the point where all my other earbuds never get touched (Monk +, SHE3800, Hi-Z 32ohm and T-Music V1).
> 
> I guess I will look for the next step up soon. I tend to go for mid focused (HD600) or brighter headphones (Grados). Is there anything in the next step up in terms of price that would be worth getting ($30-$80)? Also it needs to be able to be driven off either my LG V20 or a FiiO Q1.


 try Boarseman mx98s, good too


----------



## AkashS04

golov17 said:


> try Boarseman mx98s, good too


 
 Good in terms of Bass, Warmness and also clarity? Can I consider this as next step to SHE3800? Any link to Boarseman MX98S?


----------



## AkashS04

Looks Boarseman mx98s is not with Mic :|


----------



## AkashS04

charlesrievone said:


> DIY EMX500
> Qian39
> TY Hi-Z 32
> 
> And yeah, RX1 is not for bassheads.


 
 TY Hi-Z 32S I heard with very good Bass and Warmness. Is it with Mic? Also, better than SHE3800?


----------



## Ira Delphic

removed.


----------



## AkashS04

Any idea about REMAX 305M?


----------



## 93EXCivic

golov17 said:


> try Boarseman mx98s, good too


 
 Cool. Thanks for the suggestion.
  


ira delphic said:


> I don' think that's going to work. He needs Beats over ear headphones.


 
 ??? That is kind of the opposite of what I was asking about.


----------



## flamesofarctica

93excivic said:


> Does anyone else own the T-Music V2s? I have been really enjoying mine to the point where all my other earbuds never get touched (Monk +, SHE3800, Hi-Z 32ohm and T-Music V1).
> 
> I guess I will look for the next step up soon. I tend to go for mid focused (HD600) or brighter headphones (Grados). Is there anything in the next step up in terms of price that would be worth getting ($30-$80)? Also it needs to be able to be driven off either my LG V20 or a FiiO Q1.


 

No, because on AliExpress to the UK, the shipping is £25! They don't seem to do AliExpress standard shipping, ePacket etc so the cheapest is EMS.


----------



## ZoneX23

Hey guys! I'm looking for a great low impedance, mid-tier, all-rounder earbud for daily listening. 
  
 1. $50 and under is my budget.
 2. At this point I don't use amps of any kind. I just run stuff through laptops, phones, & other music players directly.
 3. I typically listen to a mix of *ambient* (Hammock, Owsey, Stars of the Lid), *electronic* (BT, Bonobo, Telefon Tel Aviv), and *rock* of all kinds (M83, Animals as Leaders, The 1975).
 4. I already own the *Monk+* (not enough bass for me), *Qian39* (need more time with this to decide, but too veiled for now), *Hi-Z HP-32s* (love the bass, but lacking mids), and *Edifier H180 *(my fave earbud currently). In an earlier post, I alluded to owning & loving the *PK3 *back in the day too.
  
 Do you have any suggestions? I've read through most of the posts here and suspect that the following might be options:
  
 -*Tomahawk* - great soundstage, which should benefit ambient music. But does it work for electronic?
 -*Boarseman** MX98s* - good for rock and metal. But will it work for ambient?
 -*Tp16* - neutral sound signature?
  
 Would any of the above work? If I need to skew towards any of my genre preferences here, I'll skew towards ambient - but I don't want zero bass for rock/electronic tracks as well  Thanks guys! Let me speak for all lurkers when I say this thread has been incredibly helpful for so many!


----------



## CharlesRievone

zonex23 said:


> -*Tomahawk* - great soundstage, which should benefit ambient music. But does it work for electronic?
> -*Boarseman** MX98s* - good for rock and metal. But will it work for ambient?
> -*Tp16* - neutral sound signature?


 
  
 Out of the 3 you listed, I suggest the* Toneking TP16*. It does have a neutral sound sig indeed, but brighter than Monk+.
 It can cater to all of the genres you listed (we do have some overlaps with the bands you listed as well hehe).
 Definitely one of the best looking buds too, with the silver+black contrast of the cables and housing.
 Its cables could never get tangled, plus it also has a mic, so bonus points for that.
  
 Boarseman MX98 has wobbly bass, so it might not be good for electronic/edm.
 I never had the chance to try the Tomahawk yet though.


----------



## chinmie

zonex23 said:


> Hey guys! I'm looking for a great low impedance, mid-tier, all-rounder earbud for daily listening.
> 
> 1. $50 and under is my budget.
> 2. At this point I don't use amps of any kind. I just run stuff through laptops, phones, & other music players directly.
> ...




i recommend the TP16 or the Edifier H185. to me they are the best all arounder under 50


----------



## flamesofarctica

zonex23 said:


> Hey guys! I'm looking for a great low impedance, mid-tier, all-rounder earbud for daily listening.
> 
> 1. $50 and under is my budget.
> 2. At this point I don't use amps of any kind. I just run stuff through laptops, phones, & other music players directly.
> ...




We don't really have similar music tastes, however one thing I'd say about the TP16 and the Tomahawk, is I can't for the life of me get them to stay in my ears, whereas I have no problem with the VE, TY and Qian earbuds.

I don't know if they're just weighted differently or if it's just me, but it spoils those two earbuds for me such that I never use them, even though I like their sound.

Obviously I can't say if you would find the same, as it would vary based on different ears. And it may just be me!


----------



## CharlesRievone

zonex23 said:


> 3. I typically listen to a mix of *ambient* (Hammock, Owsey, Stars of the Lid), *electronic* (BT, Bonobo, Telefon Tel Aviv), and *rock* of all kinds (M83, Animals as Leaders, The 1975).


 
  
 Just listened to "Owsey - I Felt Helpless Looking At You Then" with the TP16.
 The atmosphere is engulfing and the rumbling electronic bass that kicked in are definitely felt.
  
 The djenty slap-bass on the intro of "Animals As Leaders - Physical Education" are crispy af,
 and the instrument separation/soundstage of the guitars/synths on "The 1975 - Sex" is wide enough.
  
 YMMV of course.


----------



## golov17

ZoneX23, try 
DIY EMX50


----------



## Saoshyant

golov17 said:


> @ZoneX23, try
> DIY EMX50


 
  
 I went with https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-New-Arrival-In-ear-Earphones-Flat-Head-Plug-Earphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds-DJ-Earbuds-Heavy/32789378048.html which I'd assume is the same as the EMX50.  For a bassy budget earbud, it's quite remarkable.  With some EQ on Shanling M1, it's my favorite budget setup.


----------



## luedriver

@ZoneX23 although I just got these, and haven't used them much the nicehck diy pk2 seem to be pretty good all-rounders, like the shozy cygnus that shares sound sig


----------



## alvinlim2010

Loving this combi so far! Faael 64ohms with shanling m1, stacked with walnut. 
Great bass response while retaining a fun signature without losing too much resolution!


----------



## ctaxxxx

Since I purchased some Diomnes earbuds recently, I decided to sell the rest of my non-TOTL earbuds. This includes Red Demun and Heavenly Sounds Cadenza. Check my other earbud listings as well.
  
 See my signature for a comparison list of these earbuds!


----------



## Spider fan

ctaxxxx said:


> Since I purchased some Diomnes earbuds recently, I decided to sell the rest of my non-TOTL earbuds. This includes Red Demun and Heavenly Sounds Cadenza. Check my other earbud listings as well.
> 
> See my signature for a comparison list of these earbuds!


 

 If I didnt already have them, I would gobble up those Red Demuns.  Can't beat a nice discount and no waiting for shipping from Indonesia.  I like them more than my Mojitos and probably my Zen 2.0s since they are more versatile.  They sound good with everything and all genres.  Currently, my 2nd favorite in my collection.  I hate the cable but the sound is worth it.


----------



## barbazz

spider fan said:


> Currently, my 2nd favorites in my collection.


 
  
 You made me curious about the first one.


----------



## Spider fan

barbazz said:


> You made me curious about the first one.


 

 Zen 2.0 Black.  I pretty much list them in order in my profile.  Although, I admit the Red Demun is more versatile.  It handles rap and pop bass better than the Zen Black.  However, if I am going to listen to bassy music I will just throw on headphones or drive around in my car.


----------



## chinmie

ctaxxxx Spider fan how are you using your red demuns? lately i switched from the stock full foams to VE monk thin ones, and the sound is amazing, really clear and revealing. really different from the full warmish sound of using full foams


----------



## Spider fan

chinmie said:


> @ctaxxxx @Spider fan how are you using your red demuns? lately i switched from the stock full foams to VE monk thin ones, and the sound is amazing, really clear and revealing. really different from the full warmish sound of using full foams


 
 I currently use the rubber ring covered with the old VE full foams.  I am talking about the thick redish/maroonish ones.  You get like 1 set of them in the EX pack.  The upper mids are noticeably brighter than zens and cygnus so I started with full thick foams and used them like that since day one.  The only thing is dont like about the Red Demuns is the cable always pulls them out of my ear even with thick foams so I recently put the rubber rings under the foam to help them stay secure.  I got mine for $35 because the first 2 owners couldnt deal with the stiff cable.  Best audio bargain I've gotten.


----------



## golov17

Universal solution, lol


----------



## ctaxxxx

spider fan said:


> I currently use the rubber ring covered with the old VE full foams.  I am talking about the thick redish/maroonish ones.  You get like 1 set of them in the EX pack.  The upper mids are noticeably brighter than zens and cygnus so I started with full thick foams and used them like that since day one.  The only thing is dont like about the Red Demuns is the cable always pulls them out of my ear even with thick foams so I recently put the rubber rings under the foam to help them stay secure.  I got mine for $35 because the first 2 owners couldnt deal with the stiff cable.  Best audio bargain I've gotten.




Is that what the rubber rings are for? I had the same exact issue with the thick foams sliding around.


----------



## Spider fan

ctaxxxx said:


> Is that what the rubber rings are for? I had the same exact issue with the thick foams sliding around.


 

 No, they are to keep the earbuds themselves tighter and more secure in your ear.  However, indirectly they do keep the foams more secure on the earbud itself since it a tighter fit for the actual foams.  I just tried to slide the foams around and they weren't budging at all.


----------



## chinmie

spider fan said:


> I currently use the rubber ring covered with the old VE full foams.  I am talking about the thick redish/maroonish ones.  You get like 1 set of them in the EX pack.  The upper mids are noticeably brighter than zens and cygnus so I started with full thick foams and used them like that since day one.  The only thing is dont like about the Red Demuns is the cable always pulls them out of my ear even with thick foams so I recently put the rubber rings under the foam to help them stay secure.  I got mine for $35 because the first 2 owners couldnt deal with the stiff cable.  Best audio bargain I've gotten.




it seems to be a common problem for the demun users. my brother who is testing it also said that it can't stay put on his ears because of the small housing and stiff cables (he uses double foams on his mx500 type earbuds). 

me however, doesn't have that problem. using thin foams (i even tried without one), they stay snug on my ears

ctaxxxx the rubber rings can be used like that to get a more snug fit. some people even use them without foams if they enjoy their earbuds sound naked


----------



## Spider fan

chinmie said:


> it seems to be a common problem for the demun users. my brother who is testing it also said that it can't stay put on his ears because of the small housing and stiff cables (he uses double foams on his mx500 type earbuds).
> 
> me however, doesn't have that problem. using thin foams (i even tried without one), they stay snug on my ears
> 
> @ctaxxxx the rubber rings can be used like that to get a more snug fit. some people even use them without foams if they enjoy their earbuds sound naked


 

 You are lucky.  Even with the rings and foam they still come out alittle for me.
  
 Yah. I use rubber rings but naked on my zens blacks.  Its cable is even stiffer than the demuns. 
  
 My 2 favorite buds I just have to sit still.  If I need to move around  I'll use the Cygnus.


----------



## chinmie

spider fan said:


> You are lucky.  Even with the rings and foam they still come out alittle for me.
> 
> Yah. I use rubber rings but naked on my zens blacks.  Its cable is even stiffer than the demuns.
> 
> My 2 favorite buds I just have to sit still.  If I need to move around  I'll use the Cygnus.




you might want to try using a shirt clip and pull the cord slider to the chin. it might help for dealing with that stiff cords


----------



## Spider fan

chinmie said:


> you might want to try using a shirt clip and pull the cord slider to the chin. it might help for dealing with that stiff cords


 
 Yah, I use shirtclips.  The chin thingy not so much lol.  It wasnt very comfortable when I tried it.  Plus that slider thing doesnt like to move very much unless I spray it with silicon lubricant.  I can see the residue giving me some crazy rash lol.


----------



## silverfishla

golov17 said:


> Universal solution, lol



Aren't the L and R supposed to be on the outside of the bud?


----------



## Saoshyant

With the Red Demun, the only way I can use it is with fins to keep it in place, otherwise that obnoxious cable just knocks em out of my ears.  I 100x prefer the Edimun cable.


----------



## wskl

luedriver said:


> @ZoneX23 although I just got these, and haven't used them much the nicehck diy pk2 seem to be pretty good all-rounders, like the shozy cygnus that shares sound sig


 
  
 Interesting!  I then noticed that the Aliexpress 'related products' showed the EPK1 which seems to use the same shell.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I have both the nicehck diy pk2 and epk1 in transit. I'm looking forward to hearing both of these. 

--


----------



## golov17

silverfishla said:


> Aren't the L and R supposed to be on the outside of the bud?


 I use my Mojito exactly the same way


----------



## silverfishla

golov17 said:


> I use my Mojito exactly the same way



 Hmmm. I use both my Mojito and Masya the other way...


----------



## golov17

silverfishla said:


> Hmmm. I use both my Mojito and Masya the other way...


----------



## golov17

lh86 said:


> But I really want to warn all of those who interesting in Rose Masya.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 To my delight, I received an old version from the banned seller


----------



## weedophile

The banned seller msged me recently that the Yinman 150 was not sent out together with the rest of my purchases. I wouldnt say i am disappointed but i was hoping to listen to that soon as the reviews are pretty good in general.


----------



## golov17

weedophile said:


> The banned seller msged me recently that the Yinman 150 was not sent out together with the rest of my purchases. I wouldnt say i am disappointed but i was hoping to listen to that soon as the reviews are pretty good in general.


 so sad..


----------



## golov17

Very nice for vocal, like AKG on steroids


----------



## Yobster69

bloodypenguin said:


> I have both the nicehck diy pk2 and epk1 in transit. I'm looking forward to hearing both of these.
> 
> --


Same here, just waiting for the domestic U.K. snail mail to deliver them to my door. 
I do hope they are slightly different sounds. They certainly a different cable anyway so fingers crossed.


----------



## golov17

yobster69 said:


> Same here, just waiting for the domestic U.K. snail mail to deliver them to my door.
> I do hope they are slightly different sounds. They certainly a different cable anyway so fingers crossed.


other drivers


----------



## audionewbi

*More update on Blur: *What interest me on Blur is that the treble is so extended and the bass decay is just slow enough to remain to remain engaging. I have to be perfectly honest when I first bough the Blur I just did it to try the earbud. I did not have a high expectation from any earbud. 
 Wearing the Blur and going from it to my other earbud the transition isn't easy. I just find the seal of IEM to be fatiguing. The sound that I get from Blur is natural and engaging. It is very well balanced. For those lucky enough to own one I highly recommend the Ortofon MHq-Q7. I have a dozen amp here and this little dap just pairs with it so well.


----------



## luedriver

wskl said:


> Interesting!  I then noticed that the Aliexpress 'related products' showed the EPK1 which seems to use the same shell.


 
 same shell different drivers (probably) wish they were more commonly used like the mx500 shells


golov17 said:


> Very nice for vocal, like AKG on steroids


 
  
 espresso cables?


----------



## Saoshyant

@golov17 Having a hard time remembering currently, do Rose earbuds use .78mm or .75mm?


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> @golov17
> Having a hard time remembering currently, do Rose earbuds use .78mm or .75mm?


0.78


----------



## 93EXCivic

So I am about to sell a group of budget earbuds if anyone is interested (Monk +, T-Music V1, 2x SHE3800 (one unopened), TY Hi-Z 32ohm plus a couple cases). It would be great for someone in the USA wanting to try out a bunch of budget earbuds.
  
 Can someone talk tell me about how the Auglamour RX1, Boarseman MX98, MusicMaker Tomahawk, Yinman 150ohm, K's 300ohm compare? I am looking for something with strong mids, pretty good highs and decent bass. The T-Music V2 is really good for me as I find it some what mid foward which means very good vocals and the bass is decent. I found the bass in the TY Hi-Z 32ohm a bit lose and the bass in the Monk + and V1 a bit tinny. Also how is the fit and comfort on those earbuds? Or is there anything else in the $20-$40 range I should consider?


----------



## Saoshyant

golov17 said:


> 0.78


 
  
 Is it a tight fit, because I really could have sworn Rose used .75 mm
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Custom-Made-0-75mm-2-Pin-Silver-With-Copper-Mixed-Earphone-Upgrade-Cable-Ues-For/32767205943.html
  
 That's what I'm using with my Masya, so I wonder if you can kind of get either to work.


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> Is it a tight fit, because I really could have sworn Rose used .75 mm
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Custom-Made-0-75mm-2-Pin-Silver-With-Copper-Mixed-Earphone-Upgrade-Cable-Ues-For/32767205943.html
> 
> That's what I'm using with my Masya, so I wonder if you can kind of get either to work.


Ohh..


----------



## golov17

I will try 0.75  
2-Pin 0.75mm 4 Core Silver Foil Silver-Plated HiFi Audiophile Earphone Upgrade Cable for UE TF10 SF5
 http://s.aliexpress.com/eqUf2eYN


----------



## AkashS04

Anything which is an upgrade to SHE3800 in terms of booming Bass, nice Warmness, Comfort, clarity (but smooth and not Harsh) and with Mic but not too expensive. Within $15 or around or may  be up to $20.


----------



## Ira Delphic

luedriver said:


> @ZoneX23 although I just got these, and haven't used them much the nicehck diy pk2 seem to be pretty good all-rounders, like the shozy cygnus that shares sound sig


 
  
 How does the PIY PK2 compare to the Shozy Cygnus overall? Is there a significant difference between the DIY PK2 and other budget earbuds?
  
 I have the Blox B160. There is an unambiguous difference -- for the better, between that and our favorite budget earbuds. It would be great if the DIY PK2 was in the same "mid" category. The B160 isn't an all rounder, but is much closer to the TY HP 650 in overall quality than budget buds.


----------



## ATi7500

akashs04 said:


> Anything which is an upgrade to SHE3800 in terms of booming Bass, nice Warmness, Comfort, clarity (but smooth and not Harsh) and with Mic but not too expensive. Within $15 or around or may  be up to $20.


 
 Try Edifier P180


----------



## Brian Coffey

akashs04 said:


> Anything which is an upgrade to SHE3800 in terms of booming Bass, nice Warmness, Comfort, clarity (but smooth and not Harsh) and with Mic but not too expensive. Within $15 or around or may  be up to $20.


 
 Have you looked at the Edifier 190 ? They have the flat cable you like and are offered with mic.


----------



## AkashS04

ati7500 said:


> Try Edifier P180


 
 Ok. Let me try that. Vapman did not liked P180 so I was not sure. But is that Boomy and warm with better clarity (but ot harshness) than SHE3800?


----------



## AkashS04

brian coffey said:


> Have you looked at the Edifier 190 ? They have the flat cable you like and are offered with mic.


 
 Most of the people mentioned P190 is not good and does not have any Bass at all. Not even close to Monk+ in terms of bass and warmness. Have you tried that?


----------



## AkashS04

brian coffey said:


> Have you looked at the Edifier 190 ? They have the flat cable you like and are offered with mic.


 
 I did not find even a single review of P190. Looks company did not sell even a single piece of P190


----------



## Brian Coffey

akashs04 said:


> I did not find even a single review of P190. Looks company did not sell even a single piece of P190


 
 Was going from https://www.amazon.com/Edifier-H190-Premium-Earbuds-Headphones/dp/B01C7XBDMG/ref=s9u_simh_gw_i1?_encoding=UTF8&fpl=fresh&pd_rd_i=B01C7XBDMG&pd_rd_r=Q8S8HXQGE918D3Z3QMN0&pd_rd_w=9QURD&pd_rd_wg=wuLq7&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=&pf_rd_r=9THQ025TQGT4Z7S6F5QD&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=2a4fafb6-9fdc-425a-aee8-c82daa7b18ed&pf_rd_i=desktop.
 I wouldn't consider the Monk + to be warm, but more analytical and detail oriented. I also have the Philips SHE 3800 and though they have the bass seem somewhat muddy.


----------



## ozkan

akashs04 said:


> I did not find even a single review of P190. Looks company did not sell even a single piece of P190




Are you sure? I don't think you copy and paste in Google and search since asking here and getting answers is easier than googling. BTW, can you quote and reply/ask in one post instead of writing several posts? Thank you.

https://www.amazon.com/Edifier-P190-Premium-Earbuds-Headset/dp/B01C7XBJCU


----------



## AkashS04

brian coffey said:


> Was going from https://www.amazon.com/Edifier-H190-Premium-Earbuds-Headphones/dp/B01C7XBDMG/ref=s9u_simh_gw_i1?_encoding=UTF8&fpl=fresh&pd_rd_i=B01C7XBDMG&pd_rd_r=Q8S8HXQGE918D3Z3QMN0&pd_rd_w=9QURD&pd_rd_wg=wuLq7&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=&pf_rd_r=9THQ025TQGT4Z7S6F5QD&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=2a4fafb6-9fdc-425a-aee8-c82daa7b18ed&pf_rd_i=desktop.
> I wouldn't consider the Monk + to be warm, but more analytical and detail oriented. I also have the Philips SHE 3800 and though they have the bass seem somewhat muddy.


 
 They DID mention Deep and Tight Bass but even Edifier guy told me that he will prefer 180 over 190. May be 180 is with really huge Bass and Sub Bass so cannot be compared with P190. SHE3800 I found good on bass side and warm too but not detailed. Have you even listened to P190? If it is having Bass and Warmness exactly same as SHE3800 level, I can go for this.


----------



## AkashS04

ozkan said:


> Are you sure? I don't think you copy and paste in Google and search since asking here and getting answers is easier than googling. BTW, can you quote and reply/ask in one post instead of writing several posts? Thank you.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Edifier-P190-Premium-Earbuds-Headset/dp/B01C7XBJCU


 
 I was talking about No Review  on HeadFi or similar site. There are few reviews on Amazon but I don't think anyone is from a guy who is here and have some knowledge of what is Bass, Sub-Bass and what is Warm Sound.


----------



## PureSounds-cn

PS100-600S with 600 “core” braided cable are available right now，Vocal and “POP” lover could take a try 
：）


----------



## ozkan

golov17 said:


> ZoneX23, try
> DIY EMX50




Wow they look great but are they really good and can replace the og Monk?


----------



## Ira Delphic

ozkan said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > @ZoneX23, try
> ...


 
  
 They look good, but do we need need another budget earbud? Unless improvement in sound compared to other budget buds, not so compelling.


----------



## chinmie

akashs04 said:


> Anything which is an upgrade to SHE3800 in terms of booming Bass, nice Warmness, Comfort, clarity (but smooth and not Harsh) and with Mic but not too expensive. Within $15 or around or may  be up to $20.




i would suggest you try IEMs. the KZ ZS3 is under $15 and matches your criteria. it's harder to find a good budget earbuds with mics. if no mic is fine, try H180 or TY HI-Z 32


----------



## CharlesRievone

ozkan said:


> Wow they look great but are they really good and can replace the og Monk?


 


ira delphic said:


> They look good, but do we need need another budget earbud? Unless improvement in sound compared to other budget buds, not so compelling.


 
  
 For me, the *DIY EMX500* easily beats the Monk+, both in sq and aesthetics.
 These have become my favorite in the sub-20 dollar price range.


----------



## AkashS04

chinmie said:


> i would suggest you try IEMs. the KZ ZS3 is under $15 and matches your criteria. it's harder to find a good budget earbuds with mics. if no mic is fine, try H180 or TY HI-Z 32


 
 I need with Mic as I am now using my Phone to listen to music (with PowerAmp). P180 can be tried but if P190 is good as well, I can consider that too. But sadly no one has seen or listened to P190 at all here. :| TY Hi-Z 32S I heard is good but no mic


----------



## 93EXCivic

akashs04 said:


> I need with Mic as I am now using my Phone to listen to music (with PowerAmp). P180 can be tried but if P190 is good as well, I can consider that too. But sadly no one has seen or listened to P190 at all here. :| TY Hi-Z 32S I heard is good but no mic


 
 Add a mic cable to the TY Hi-Z 32?


----------



## luedriver

ira delphic said:


> How does the PIY PK2 compare to the Shozy Cygnus overall? Is there a significant difference between the DIY PK2 and other budget earbuds?
> 
> I have the Blox B160. There is an unambiguous difference -- for the better, between that and our favorite budget earbuds. It would be great if the DIY PK2 was in the same "mid" category. The B160 isn't an all rounder, but is much closer to the TY HP 650 in overall quality than budget buds.


 
 I don't think the diy pk2 is a carbon copy of the cygnus yet its very close, compared to monk and hp32, I guess they are more neutral, couldn't say for sure
  
 I have the b320, its different to my cygnus and hp-650 but equally as good, perhaps better if not a bit bright
  
 this diy pk2 is definitely a wild card, I was not expecting it to sound as good as it does, but it's too similar to the cyngus for me
  
 I'm not audiophile, so I can't go into detail on how they sound in comparison
  
still happy that I bought them I can use them for when I go out, I haven't used my cygnus outside after I had to return them for repairs


----------



## AkashS04

93excivic said:


> Add a mic cable to the TY Hi-Z 32?


 
 Is it available wit Mic? I did not see any with mic.


----------



## 93EXCivic

akashs04 said:


> Is it available wit Mic? I did not see any with mic.


 

 I don't think so. I am saying open up and set and solder on a mic cable. It is probably the best you are going to do as far what you want.
  
 Or https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-Version2-Hifi-T-Music-DIY-Earphone-3-5mm-In-Ear-Headset-with-microphone/1497284_32728603685.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.uXshyt
  
 I mean I don't know these are as bassy as you are looking. They have less bass then the Hi-Z 32 ohm. But I find it pretty good. It is nice and tight and I think it is better then the Monk +. It has a mic option.


----------



## AkashS04

93excivic said:


> I don't think so. I am saying open up and set and solder on a mic cable. It is probably the best you are going to do as far what you want.
> 
> Or https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-Version2-Hifi-T-Music-DIY-Earphone-3-5mm-In-Ear-Headset-with-microphone/1497284_32728603685.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.uXshyt
> 
> I mean I don't know these are as bassy as you are looking. They have less bass then the Hi-Z 32 ohm. But I find it pretty good. It is nice and tight and I think it is better then the Monk +. It has a mic option.


 
  
 Ok. 32S is Bassy. That's what I read in reviews. Also, I don't know if I will  be able to open up earbud and recable but will surely gets my hand dirty one in a while. Also, as we can use any cable as per our like, I am wondering if nice Flat Cable is also available for this purpose which can add quality in sound too along with look


----------



## Ira Delphic

luedriver said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > How does the PIY PK2 compare to the Shozy Cygnus overall? Is there a significant difference between the DIY PK2 and other budget earbuds?
> ...


 
  
 Thank you. Lots of good information. I'm not an audiophile either, but I know what sounds good using my LG V10. At least I hope I do 
 I really need to get a pair of B320 one of these days too...


----------



## ozkan

akashs04 said:


> Ok. 32S is Bassy. That's what I read in reviews. Also, I don't know if I will  be able to open up earbud and recable but will surely gets my hand dirty one in a while. Also, as we can use any cable as per our like, I am wondering if nice Flat Cable is also available for this purpose which can add quality in sound too along with look




Buy the P190 which has flat cable and mic and put 3-4 layers of foam to your liking to improve bass (maybe one donut and 2 thin foams) if your ears are big enough of course  

Or if you liked the SHE3800 order the one with mic from that site. Ask people who has similar tastes with you. Because some of us don't like too much bass from earbuds. Vapman could help you more since you both like ear shaking bass. Take his advices.


----------



## AkashS04

ozkan said:


> Buy the P190 which has flat cable and mic and put 3-4 layers of foam to your liking to improve bass (maybe one donut and 2 thin foams) if your ears are big enough of course
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 3-4 layers of foam will make it uncomfortable to wear. I am still with human like ears  
  
 Let me ask Vapman for his advice on this.


----------



## artnoi

So I just surfed through this thread's old pages and noticed something.
 The TYs seem to come with a cardboard packaging with impedance ratings on the lids, but mine however doesn't have that impedance identification but a 'open' text. At the bottom of my packaging's there's a sticker with some chinese text and "HI Z". There's also a date of manufacturing at the bottom of the sticker which indicates it's made on 24th March 17.
  
 I'm now concerned whether mine is a genuine pair. Can someone confirm this?
 They sound great anyway.


----------



## CharlesRievone

artnoi said:


> So I just surfed through this thread's old pages and noticed something.
> The TYs seem to come with a cardboard packaging with impedance ratings on the lids, but mine however doesn't have that impedance identification but a 'open' text. At the bottom of my packaging's there's a sticker with some chinese text and "HI Z". There's also a date of manufacturing at the bottom of the sticker which indicates it's made on 24th March 17.
> 
> I'm now concerned whether mine is a genuine pair. Can someone confirm this?
> They sound great anyway.


 

 I have both the cardboard packaging with the "Open" label and the one with the impedance number on the lid.
 Should be genuine. Don't worry about the packaging, it's the earbuds themselves that should count


----------



## barbazz

93excivic said:


> Can someone talk tell me about how the Auglamour RX1, Boarseman MX98, MusicMaker Tomahawk, Yinman 150ohm, K's 300ohm compare? I am looking for something with strong mids, pretty good highs and decent bass. The T-Music V2 is really good for me as I find it some what mid foward which means very good vocals and the bass is decent. I found the bass in the TY Hi-Z 32ohm a bit lose and the bass in the Monk + and V1 a bit tinny. Also how is the fit and comfort on those earbuds? Or is there anything else in the $20-$40 range I should consider?


 
  
 Can only talk about RX1. If you think Monk's bass is tinny, RX1 is far worse. I admit that the problem can be in my ears as I never adapted myself to RX1 shape, but bass is almost inexistent and unpleasantly metallic.
  
 Give HE150 a try. For me it's the most balanced earbud I have. Great bass extension, strong mids and good treble definition.


----------



## Spider fan

93excivic said:


> So I am about to sell a group of budget earbuds if anyone is interested (Monk +, T-Music V1, 2x SHE3800 (one unopened), TY Hi-Z 32ohm plus a couple cases). It would be great for someone in the USA wanting to try out a bunch of budget earbuds.
> 
> Can someone talk tell me about how the Auglamour RX1, Boarseman MX98, MusicMaker Tomahawk, Yinman 150ohm, K's 300ohm compare? I am looking for something with strong mids, pretty good highs and decent bass. The T-Music V2 is really good for me as I find it some what mid foward which means very good vocals and the bass is decent. I found the bass in the TY Hi-Z 32ohm a bit lose and the bass in the Monk + and V1 a bit tinny. Also how is the fit and comfort on those earbuds? Or is there anything else in the $20-$40 range I should consider?


 
 As others said if you think the Monk+ and T-Music V1 lack bass the RX1 will totally disappoint.  I hear the V1 as good bass, ok mids and dull highs.  The RX1 is the total opposite.  I hear semi-bright highs, great mids, and no bass.  It is good for acoustical and being a tv/movie bud.
  
 As I said If it was me, I would get the used Red Demuns listed for $50 by ctaxxxx who post in this thread.  However, that is only if you think if you can deal with a stiff cable.  I really love them to me they are Cygnus like but with alittle less lower mids but brighter upper mids that really bring out the details and way better bass extension.   From what I understand the poster who to me best described what he was hearing and evaluating earbuds in this thread bought 3 pairs and barely post anymore.  Sorry I am bad with names and too lazy to search.  No disrespect to him because I used to be amazed at how he described what he was hearing.  He definetly has a golden ear.  You can do a search of what he and Vapman who brought them to the threads attention say about them.  You can click on my profile and see how I list my earbuds.  I list my stuff in the order I like them.  As, I said yesterday it is my 2nd favorite bud that I own and I have a decent amount of earbuds.
  
 Another well balanced bud I love is the Qian 25.  I think it has such good balance and awesome mids.  To me it destroys the Qian 39.  I have another 39 coming and 2 more 25s just because my 39 doesnt sound like what other people are describing.  The 2 more 25s are just because I like them so much and love using them for tv/movie since to me they sound so realistic.  For the price you should definitely try each.  Although that me going against your goal of getting rid of inexpensive earbuds.


----------



## 93EXCivic

barbazz said:


> Can only talk about RX1. If you think Monk's bass is tinny, RX1 is far worse. I admit that the problem can be in my ears as I never adapted myself to RX1 shape, but bass is almost inexistent and unpleasantly metallic.
> 
> Give HE150 a try. For me it's the most balanced earbud I have. Great bass extension, strong mids and good treble definition.


 
 That is this guy right?  http://penonaudio.com/HE-150ohm-HiFi-Earbud
  


spider fan said:


> As others said if you think the Monk+ and T-Music V1 lack bass the RX1 will totally disappoint.  I hear the V1 as good bass, ok mids and dull highs.  The RX1 is the total opposite.  I hear semi-bright highs, great mids, and no bass.  It is good for acoustical and being a tv/movie bud.
> 
> As I said If it was me, I would get the used Red Demuns listed for $50 by ctaxxxx who post in this thread.  However, that is only if you think if you can deal with a stiff cable.  I really love them to me they are Cygnus like but with alittle less lower mids but brighter upper mids that really bring out the details and way better bass extension.   From what I understand the poster who to me best described what he was hearing and evaluating earbuds in this thread bought 3 pairs and barely post anymore.  Sorry I am bad with names and too lazy to search.  No disrespect to him because I used to be amazed at how he described what he was hearing.  He definetly has a golden ear.  You can do a search of what he and Vapman who brought them to the threads attention say about them.  You can click on my profile and see how I list my earbuds.  I list my stuff in the order I like them.  As, I said yesterday it is my 2nd favorite bud that I own and I have a decent amount of earbuds.
> 
> Another well balanced bud I love is the Qian 25.  I think it has such good balance and awesome mids.  To me it destroys the Qian 39.  I have another 39 coming and 2 more 25s just because my 39 doesnt sound like what other people are describing.  The 2 more 25s are just because I like them so much and love using them for tv/movie since to me they sound so realistic.  For the price you should definitely try each.  Although that me going against your goal of getting rid of inexpensive earbuds.


 
 I didn't find the V1s highs overly dull or the bass that great. I actually measured the Hi-Z 32, Monk + and V1s and posted that somewhere in this thread. The V1s and the Monk + where not that different. You do have me interested in trying the RX1 as a bit of a contrast to the V2s instead of an upgrade. Maybe for listening to acoustic music. To be honest I am probably a month or so from buying another set since I am just about to grab some HD600s.
  
 My main thing is I kind of want something that is either an upgrade to the V2s (not 100% sure what that would be, probably a step-up in clarity) or something that would be a good compliment (whether it was a brighter earbuds or more bassy).


----------



## Spider fan

93excivic said:


> That is this guy right?  http://penonaudio.com/HE-150ohm-HiFi-Earbud
> 
> I did find the V1s highs overly dull but yeah. You do have me interested in trying the RX1 as a bit of a contrast to the V2s instead of an upgrade. Maybe for listening to acoustic music. To be honest I am probably a month or so from buying another set since I am just about to grab some HD600s.
> 
> My main thing is I kind of what something that is either an upgrade to the V2s (not 100% sure what that would be, probably a step-up in clarity) or something that would be a good compliment (whether it was a brighter earbuds or more bassy).


 
 Yah, focus on the HD600s for now and then reevaluate.  I admit since I got my HD600s and HD580s my earbud listening has gone way down.   I love my earbuds but the bass just limits my choices in a listening session.  I love slow acoustical vocal based music but I also love old school rap and pop and alot of earbuds just cant handle the bass of those.  Sometimes I feel like I am hurting my earbuds if I try to listen to a rap song.  I like alittle variety in my listening sessions and the HDs can handle the vocal stuff and the rap/bassy stuff in the same sitting.  Plus the bass makes movies and action shows more exciting too. 
  
 I picked up my HD580s on ebay after my HD600s because I read how similiar they sound and they are kind of a landmark headphone in history.  Basically, a special edition of the HD580 became the HD600.  The drivers used were the same they just changed the material of the frame and gave them more open and metal grilles.  I also consider it a cheap backup if my HD600s break.  I honestly cannot tell the difference when I go back and forth.  Maybe a tiny bit more sparkle in the HD600s.  Sometimes on ebay the HD580s go silly cheap like $100.  All the parts on the HD600 and HD580 are interchangable too.  At worst you are getting 2 backup drivers for the cost it would be from Sennhesier.


----------



## 93EXCivic

spider fan said:


> Yah, focus on the HD600s for now and then reevaluate.  I admit since I got my HD600s and HD580s my earbud listening has gone way down.   I love my earbuds but the bass just limits my choices in a listening session.  I love slow acoustical vocal based music but I also love old school rap and pop and alot of earbuds just cant handle the bass of those.  Sometimes I feel like I am hurting my earbuds if I try to listen to a rap song.  I like alittle variety in my listening sessions and the HDs can handle the vocal stuff and the rap/bassy stuff in the same sitting.  Plus the bass makes movies and action shows more exciting too.


 

 I don't really listen to open back full size headphones when I would be listening to earbuds. Basically open headphones are for at home listening. Earbuds are for at work listening and laying in bed when my wife is sleeping. IEMs are for exercise and airplanes (and other noisy environments when I want isolation).
  
 I could probably switch closed back headphones for earbuds but they either isolate too much for work. I like being able to hear if a co-worker is trying to get my attention so they either isolation too much or leak to much for an office. Earbuds work perfectly for work so really the only time closed backs would make sense is for laying in bed but I haven't found any I like well enough/ I can't justify the expense for such a limited use. 
  
 TLDR: I am still going to be looking for earbuds even after I buy HD600s.
  
 Also earbuds seem to be one of the last real bargins left in the head-fi space.


----------



## tintheman

I usually prefer the comfort of earbuds but lately the talk on Beyer DT1350 makes me wonder if the tesla tech is really that good, does anyone have them to compare to your fav earbuds? Looks like the clamping force is very bad, please let me know about your opinion.


----------



## Blueshound24

Does anyone have a link to buy those silicone rings that go around an earbud as an alternative to or to go under the foams?


----------



## golov17

blueshound24 said:


> Does anyone have a link to buy those silicone rings that go around an earbud as an alternative to or to go under the foams?


search rubber rings on AE, 
Rubber ring for earbuds 15mm 16mm MX980 MX985 OMX985 MX880
 http://s.aliexpress.com/uEnEfu26 
(from AliExpress Android)
Venture Electronics VE MONK Plus earbuds Monk earphone (Still 5USD )
 http://s.aliexpress.com/eEVRfU7z 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## BloodyPenguin

There is a possibility that major Audio Website can carry the inexpensive *Vido: 原道耳机* earbud and ship it World Wide for under *$7USD* (and maybe at $4USD for certain options).

 I started a poll over at *Earbuds Anonymous* to see if there is enough interest for that site to stock them.
  
 You can vote multiple times for the various options.  Please answer as honestly as you can, it will help get the best idea if we can move forward.
  
  
 **Also, it must be noted that if the site did end up selling them, that they would be making almost no profit at all, it is more to fill the need for Earbud Lovers.**
  
 --


----------



## golov17

BloodyPenguin I'm already waiting from NiceHCK


----------



## ZoneX23

I'm a bit late in responding, but thanks to @chinmie, @flamesofarctica, @golov17, @Saoshyant, and @luedriver for your all-rounder earbud help! And special shoutouts to @CharlesRievone for testing with my music 
  
 At this point it's a toss-up between the DIY EMX500 and the TP16. I'm convinced that the TP16 can handle my ambient, electronic, & rock music well without an amp, but the EMX500 looks particularly enticing with bass extension and clear highs. 
  
 Is there anything that the MusicMaker TP16 does better than the EMX500? Or should I go with the latter, or just get them both? (I mean... the EMX500 + TP16 combined are cheaper than $40 Tomahawk earbuds. So that's a possibility!) Any thoughts?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> @BloodyPenguin I'm already waiting from NiceHCK


 

 NiceHCK sells them???


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> NiceHCK sells them???


i hope soon..


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> i hope soon..


 

 Hmm... ok.  Good to know....  Because I have another site about to buy a bunch to sell as well. 

 ..


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> Hmm... ok.  Good to know....  Because I have another site about to buy a bunch to sell as well.
> 
> 
> ..


 more earbuds for all


----------



## Blueshound24

golov17 said:


> blueshound24 said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone have a link to buy those silicone rings that go around an earbud as an alternative to or to go under the foams?
> ...




Thanks!


----------



## Spider fan

blueshound24 said:


> Thanks!


 
 When you wrote the question I was going to joke you forgot to include @Golov17.  I knew he would be the one with the answer.


----------



## golov17

zonex23 said:


> I'm a bit late in responding, but thanks to @chinmie
> , @flamesofarctica
> , @golov17
> , @Saoshyant
> ...


----------



## golov17

blueshound24 said:


> Thanks!


 Rubber ring of headphones for MX270 MX370 MX470 MX580
 http://s.aliexpress.com/QNbIRJRn 
(from AliExpress Android)
1 pairs Universal Silicone Replacement Tips Earbuds for Headphone Earphone
 http://s.aliexpress.com/qq6FBnaY 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> Hmm... ok.  Good to know....  Because I have another site about to buy a bunch to sell as well.
> 
> 
> ..


 Well, NiceHCK will sell VIDO, but at the request of Aliexpress they must remove the logo. There will be noname, but with VIDO drivers.


----------



## barbazz

93excivic said:


> That is this guy right?  http://penonaudio.com/HE-150ohm-HiFi-Earbud


 
  
 Yep, that's it.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

golov17 said:


> Well, NiceHCK will sell VIDO, but at the request of Aliexpress they must remove the logo. There will be noname, but with VIDO drivers.


 

 So the images will have Vido removed, but when you get the actual earbud, it will say Vido, correct? 

 Do you know when they will start selling and the price?
  
 --


----------



## golov17

bloodypenguin said:


> So the images will have Vido removed, but when you get the actual earbud, it will say Vido, correct?
> 
> 
> Do you know when they will start selling and the price?
> ...







VIDO


----------



## golov17

akashs04 said:


> They DID mention Deep and Tight Bass but even Edifier guy told me that he will prefer 180 over 190. May be 180 is with really huge Bass and Sub Bass so cannot be compared with P190. SHE3800 I found good on bass side and warm too but not detailed. Have you even listened to P190? If it is having Bass and Warmness exactly same as SHE3800 level, I can go for this.


 just buy VIDO with mic


----------



## ballog

golov17 said:


> i hope soon..


 
 The listing is already live.
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-NICEHCK-DIY-Earbud-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud-Dynamic-Flat-Head-Plug-Earbud-Bass-HIFI-Earphone/32806045266.html?spm=6aoD9P&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0%252Csearchweb201602_2_10152_10065_10151_10068_10130_10136_10137_10060_10138_9999_10155_10062_10156_10154_10056_10055_10054_10059_10099_10103_10102_10096_10148_10147_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10051_10084_10083_10119_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10179_10181_10037_10033_10032_10078_10079_10077_10073_10070_10123_10120_10124-9999_10033_10077%252Csearchweb201603_1%252Cafswitch_1_afChannel%252CppcSwitch_2&btsid=257dd683-0656-43ce-b847-ef3c50858204&algo_expid=91e0a413-656a-427b-8014-bb55dde81777-0&algo_pvid=91e0a413-656a-427b-8014-bb55dde81777&aff_platform=aaf&cpt=1492773141370&sk=6mia6uv&aff_trace_key=ec7bfd407bed4fd0b7950ef6f54a1691-1492773141370-05500-6mia6uv


----------



## golov17

ballog said:


> The listing is already live.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-NICEHCK-DIY-Earbud-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud-Dynamic-Flat-Head-Plug-Earbud-Bass-HIFI-Earphone/32806045266.html?spm=6aoD9P&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0%252Csearchweb201602_2_10152_10065_10151_10068_10130_10136_10137_10060_10138_9999_10155_10062_10156_10154_10056_10055_10054_10059_10099_10103_10102_10096_10148_10147_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10051_10084_10083_10119_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10179_10181_10037_10033_10032_10078_10079_10077_10073_10070_10123_10120_10124-9999_10033_10077%252Csearchweb201603_1%252Cafswitch_1_afChannel%252CppcSwitch_2&btsid=257dd683-0656-43ce-b847-ef3c50858204&algo_expid=91e0a413-656a-427b-8014-bb55dde81777-0&algo_pvid=91e0a413-656a-427b-8014-bb55dde81777&aff_platform=aaf&cpt=1492773141370&sk=6mia6uv&aff_trace_key=ec7bfd407bed4fd0b7950ef6f54a1691-1492773141370-05500-6mia6uv


lol


----------



## AkashS04

Thanks. Can you pls share link to the Vido Earbud? Is it the one which is mentioned above (New NICEHCK DIY Earbud In Ear Earphone Earbud Dynamic Flat Head Plug Earbud Bass HIFI Earphone Bass Earbud Use For Vieo Pad). Boomy, Bassy, Warm with greater clarity than SHE3800?


----------



## AkashS04

golov17 said:


> just buy VIDO with mic


 
 Also, did you use VIDO? How do you compare it with Monk+ and SHE3800? Pls suggest. And also with Edifier P190/180 if you have used them.


----------



## CharlesRievone

zonex23 said:


> I'm a bit late in responding, but thanks to @chinmie, @flamesofarctica, @golov17, @Saoshyant, and @luedriver for your all-rounder earbud help! And special shoutouts to @CharlesRievone for testing with my music
> 
> At this point it's a toss-up between the DIY EMX500 and the TP16. I'm convinced that the TP16 can handle my ambient, electronic, & rock music well without an amp, but the EMX500 looks particularly enticing with bass extension and clear highs.
> 
> Is there anything that the MusicMaker TP16 does better than the EMX500? Or should I go with the latter, or just get them both? (I mean... the EMX500 + TP16 combined are cheaper than ₱1,979 ($40) Tomahawk earbuds. So that's a possibility!) Any thoughts?


 
 I guess the only thing that TP16 has against the EMX500 is that it has a mic  lol.
  
 Yeah I suggest you get both, since they're both relatively very cheap anyway, and you might actually like one earbud for a specific genre than the other.


----------



## Ira Delphic

luedriver said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > How does the PIY PK2 compare to the Shozy Cygnus overall? Is there a significant difference between the DIY PK2 and other budget earbuds?
> ...


 
  
 OK you convinced me! Just ordered a NICEHCK DIY PK2  - white with silver-ish cable.


----------



## golov17

ira delphic said:


> OK you convinced me! Just ordered a NICEHCK DIY PK2  - white with silver-ish cable.


OK


----------



## fairx

Wow finally! I just ordered vido for myself. Thanks for the effort guys.


----------



## DBaldock9

golov17 said:


> OK


 
  
 How does the DIY PK2 ($20) compare to the Qian25 & Qian39 (~$6)?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I just updated my "*Introduction to TY Hi-Z Earbud Family: Mega Review*" thread to include the *TY Hi-Z 32 2.5mm Balanced* version.
  
 In the review you will find a comparison to the _VE Monk+ 2.5mm Balanced._

 http://www.head-fi.org/t/831374/introduction-to-ty-hi-z-earbud-family-mega-review
  

  
 --


----------



## DBaldock9

bloodypenguin said:


> I just updated my "*Introduction to TY Hi-Z Earbud Family: Mega Review*" thread to include the *TY Hi-Z 32 2.5mm Balanced* version.
> 
> In the review you will find a comparison to the _VE Monk+ 2.5mm Balanced._
> 
> ...


 
  
 I really like my VE Espresso Monk+ (2.5TRRS).  It's got noticeably better quantity / quality of Bass, than the Standard Monk+.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

dbaldock9 said:


> I really like my VE Espresso Monk+ (2.5TRRS).  It's got noticeably better quantity / quality of Bass, than the Standard Monk+.


 
  
 Interesting.   I still have to compare the Monk+ vs the Monk Candy (both 3.5mm).  So many earbuds, so little time!


----------



## flamesofarctica

bloodypenguin said:


> I just updated my "*Introduction to TY Hi-Z Earbud
> Family: Mega Review*" thread to include the *TY Hi-Z 32 2.5mm Balanced* version.
> 
> In the review you will find a comparison to the _VE Monk+ 2.5mm Balanced._
> ...




Great timing, I have this waiting at the post office :-D



dbaldock9 said:


> I really like my VE Espresso Monk+ (2.5TRRS).  It's got noticeably better quantity / quality of Bass, than the Standard Monk+.




The balanced Monk+ Espresso is a fantastic earbud, its my first balanced earbud and I'm still wowed by how impressive it sounds


----------



## golov17

dbaldock9 said:


> How does the DIY PK2 ($20) compare to the Qian25 & Qian39 (~$6)?


 David, this should be compared with Shozy Cygnus and BK, and not with Qians ..


----------



## Spider fan

golov17 said:


> David, this should be compared with Shozy Cygnus and BK, and not with Qians ..


 

 Nice, that statement speaks volumes in itself.


----------



## CharlesRievone

golov17 said:


> David, this should be compared with Shozy Cygnus and BK, and not with Qians ..


 

 Whoa, really? this 20 dollar earbud can reach Cygnus (₱3,957 ($80)) and BK (₱8,162 ($165)) levels?


----------



## Spider fan

charlesrievone said:


> Whoa, really? this 20 dollar earbud can reach Cygnus (₱3,957 ($80)) and BK (₱8,162 ($165)) levels?


 
 lol we had the same reaction.  My problem is I dont even have time to listen to my Cygnus, Mojito, Zen 2.0 as it is.  But I am a hoarder and consider them all kind of collector-worthy status buds so I dont want to sell them.


----------



## golov17

spider fan said:


> lol we had the same reaction.  My problem is I dont even have time to listen to my Cygnus, Mojito, Zen 2.0 as it is.  But I am a hoarder and consider them all kind of collector-worthy status buds so I dont want to sell them.


 same here


----------



## CharlesRievone

spider fan said:


> lol we had the same reaction.  My problem is I dont even have time to listen to my Cygnus, Mojito, Zen 2.0 as it is.  But I am a hoarder and consider them all kind of collector-worthy status buds so I dont want to sell them.


 
  
 My Zen Black, Mojito, as well as this DIY PK2 (and a few other budget buds) are still on their way to me and I couldn't be more excited to hear them all. 
  
 But yeah I don't think we will all be able to reach uncle Oleg's level of being a hoarder though haha.


----------



## Spider fan

golov17 said:


> same here


 
 haha I cant even imagine your morning decision in which one to use or with dap or amp etc etc


----------



## golov17

spider fan said:


> haha I cant even imagine your morning decision in which one to use or with dap or amp etc etc


 I agree that it is not easy to make a choice


----------



## Spider fan

charlesrievone said:


> My Zen Black, Mojito, as well as this DIY PK2 (and a few other budget buds) are still on their way to me and I couldn't be more excited to hear them all.
> 
> But yeah I don't think we will all be able to reach uncle Oleg's level of being a hoarder though haha.


 
 Sounds similar to me.  I got my monk + and fell in love.  I was like I will get one higher priced earbud and be done.  I ordered the Cygnus.  It sounded like a great plan.  Well the AE vendor I bought from took forever to source one.  While waiting I had ebay bucks so I ordered from penon the DIY Dual Driver since it is ranked high by our OP.  Then I waited some more.  I read about the E100 and they are so cheap I ordered one from a US seller.    By now I had read all the thread and was really earbud hyped.  I bought a used Zen 2.0 from a board member.  Anyways,  they all show up including both the Chinese orders on the same two days.  I barely had time to listen all of them with so many coming at once.  Two weeks later I had Zen Black and everything barely got listened to ever again except when I was on the go or if I am using them for television/movies.  I later got the mojitos and Red Demuns and a bunch of other value buds.  So now I read about a bud and get excited and then I realize when I buy it I will listen one day then burn it in for like a week,  listen one more day  then go back to my Zen blacks and HD600s and the new bud will just sit in its case.  I only listen like an hour a day, if I listened all day I wouldnt feel bad like I am neglecting my babies.  Atleast, Oleg is a good father and gives them quality time.


----------



## Danneq

Hmmm... My collection is becoming smaller and smaller. Just sold my 3 vintage Sony and 2 out of 3 vintage Aiwa earbuds. Plus my Astrotec Lyra. But I've got a pair of Stardust on the way...


----------



## CharlesRievone

spider fan said:


> Sounds similar to me.
> ---
> Atleast, Oleg is a good father and gives them quality time.


 
  
 Hah, definitely a similar story, more or less.
 My only hope is to be indeed a good father to my several buds.
 Been (unfortunately) selling some of them actually, but I make sure to sell them to friends first.
  


danneq said:


> Hmmm... My collection is becoming smaller and smaller. Just sold my 3 vintage Sony and 2 out of 3 vintage Aiwa earbuds. Plus my Astrotec Lyra. But I've got a pair of Stardust on the way...


 
  
 Based on ctaxxxx's own earbud comparisons, Stardust sits at the middle of the cold/warm scale. I'm fortunate to have both buds on either side of the spectrum already, so Stardust is definitely next on my list, hopefully..


----------



## Luan Dee

danneq said:


> Hmmm... My collection is becoming smaller and smaller. Just sold my 3 vintage Sony and 2 out of 3 vintage Aiwa earbuds. Plus my Astrotec Lyra. But I've got a pair of Stardust on the way...


 
 Exciting! I always wonder how the Shozy Stardust compares to the Cypherus lineup but doesn't have but the budget to acquire them all. Will wait for your review on this


----------



## noknok23

Fabi may help, he own campfred and stardust


----------



## DBaldock9

golov17 said:


> David, this should be compared with Shozy Cygnus and BK, and not with Qians ..


 
  
 Well, in that case - I went ahead and ordered the NiceHCK DIY PK2 (white), as well as the Vido (blue).  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Also ordered additional DIY OCC (8-strand) earphone wire, and both Male & Female MMCX connectors - to do some more re-wiring...


----------



## DBaldock9

golov17 said:


> same here


 
  
 Does your earphone collection have its own postal zip code?


----------



## Blueshound24

golov17 said:


> dbaldock9 said:
> 
> 
> > How does the DIY PK2 ($20) compare to the Qian25 & Qian39 (~$6)?
> ...


 
  
 So, I have an Asura 2 on the way to my mailbox. Would you get the NICEHCK DIY PK2 as well?
 I would not want to get it if it is too similar to the DIY PK2.


----------



## ctaxxxx

luan dee said:


> Exciting! I always wonder how the Shozy Stardust compares to the Cypherus lineup but doesn't have but the budget to acquire them all. Will wait for your review on this


 
 I actually own both. They sound pretty different. CampFred's have more meat in the bass, vocals sit further back, and the highs are bit smoother. Larger sound stage too. Stardust is more energetic in comparison. More treble extension, voices are closer, tighter (but lighter) bass. Smaller sound stage.
  
 I actually haven't been listening to the Stardusts as much anymore, as I don't like their synergy with the X5 3rd gen. Its too smooth now, and it kinda loses that energy. I've been looking at other DAPs cause I'm not sure I like the X5's smooth sound signature anymore. Though I'm not sure I want to drop $900+ on the DX200. Might wait for the X7 2nd gen this summer.


----------



## ClieOS

Astrotec Lyra Classic (Lyra 3rd Gen.）
 Svara L


----------



## mochill

Gimme your stardust


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> Astrotec Lyra Classic (Lyra 3rd Gen.）
> Svara L


 Ohh.. Nice  How is it? Any link, plz


----------



## nmatheis

ctaxxxx said:


> I actually own both. They sound pretty different. CampFred's have more meat in the bass, vocals sit further back, and the highs are bit smoother. Larger sound stage too. Stardust is more energetic in comparison. More treble extension, voices are closer, tighter (but lighter) bass. Smaller sound stage.
> 
> I actually haven't been listening to the Stardusts as much anymore, as I don't like their synergy with the X5 3rd gen. Its too smooth now, and it kinda loses that energy. * I've been looking at other DAPs cause I'm not sure I like the X5's smooth sound signature anymore.* Though I'm not sure I want to drop $900+ on the DX200. Might wait for the X7 2nd gen this summer.




Love my CampFred! 

I tried to warn people about the bolded part in the quote about the X5 v3 but was drowned out. Too many FiiO fanbois out there, lol. My buddy golov17 and I know Shanling is where it's at, yo! 

*\m/  \m/*


----------



## golov17

nmatheis said:


> Love my CampFred!
> 
> I tried to warn people about the bolded part in the quote about the X5 v3 but was drowned out. Too many FiiO fanbois out there, lol. My buddy golov17 and I know Shanling is where it's at, yo!
> 
> *\m/  \m/*


Shanling forever


----------



## nmatheis

golov17 said:


> Shanling forever


----------



## luedriver

golov17 said:


> David, this should be compared with Shozy Cygnus and BK, and not with Qians ..


 
 does this mean the black is similar to the BK?


----------



## golov17

luedriver said:


> does this mean the black is similar to the BK?


 buy & try


----------



## luedriver

golov17 said:


> buy & try


 
 I wouldn't know even if I bought them, as I don't have BK to compare them with, but it is tempting even with my collection of earbuds


----------



## golov17

luedriver said:


> I wouldn't know even if I bought them, as I don't have BK to compare them with, but it is tempting even with my collection of earbuds


well,yesterday ordered black


----------



## Brian Coffey

golov17 said:


> well,yesterday ordered black


 
 If I wanted something warm. I would be better off with something like the Yinman 150 though wouldn't I ? Although I want my Bass and details too.


----------



## To.M

So you say, DIY PK2 is a big upgrade over the budget models like Monks or Ty Hi-Z 32 etc? I think I feel tempted to get a new pair of buds.


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> Ohh.. Nice  How is it? Any link, plz


 

 Astrotec is a well-known name so I assume some seller will pick it up soon. I haven't spent much time on it yet, but I can say I like it more than Lyra 6. Lyra 6 doesn't sound particularly 'flagship' to my ears, at least Lyra Classic does it better. As for Svara L, it comes from a very small DIY maker from Taobao. I am not sure I will call it ToTL yet, as I too haven't spent enough time with it - but it is overall a very good sounding earbuds, plus pretty good build quality.


----------



## Fabi

noknok23 said:


> @Fabi may help, he own campfred and stardust


 
 Yup bro, I got your pair of Blue Darth as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/826036/cypherus-audio-products-discussion-thread-campfred-earbuds-qfred-earbuds-and-cax-golden-reference/780#post_13444350


----------



## 93EXCivic

How do the Yinman earbuds sound?


----------



## mochill

nmatheis said:


> golov17 said:
> 
> 
> > Shanling forever


hey !!!! I love shanling tooo


----------



## flamesofarctica

OK this is just first impressions, however I picked up the Seahf 32S, Seahf 32 (white), and TY Hi-Z 32 balanced from the post office today.

These might be 3 of the best value earbuds I've heard.

Reasons I ordered the Seahf buds was out of pure interest, as I'd read they were tuned differently from the equivalent TY buds, with a suggestion (and hope) they may be tuned a bit less harshly. The sceptic in me expected them to be the same earbuds with different branding.

I ordered the TY 32 balanced because I'd ordered the Cayin N5 which has balanced output, and so this and the balanced Monk+ were budget balanced options to try out. Again, with my experience of the standard version, I was taking a bit of a chance.

On first impressions over a few hours, I'm a bit shocked. Especially as I'm sure the Seahfs will have been around a while yet don't seem to get a mention in the top budget lists.

 None of the 3 have any harshness issues, and yet retain so much clarity, and both the Seahf buds extend to some quite impressive sub bass where needed.

I recommend all 3, no hesitation, to anyone who likes the TY 32 and 32S, but also to anyone who found the upper mids on these to be offputting like myself.

I'd put them all a fair bit ahead of the TY 150 as well, to my ears, and I think they may well overtake quite a few others of my sub-£30 earbuds as well (Yinman 150 and K's 300 even I'm looking in your direction).

Your mileage / preferences / ears may vary. I'll post an update after extended use to rule out any new toy syndrome!

Now, roll on the diy PK2's and the Vido :-D


----------



## ozkan

flamesofarctica said:


> OK this is just first impressions, however I picked up the Seahf 32S, Seahf 32 (white), and TY Hi-Z 32 balanced from the post office today.
> 
> These might be 3 of the best value earbuds I've heard.
> 
> ...




Is this the same Seahf 32s with mic that you have? 

2017 New Seahf AWK-F32 In Ear Earphone 32ohms Earbud Flat Head Plug Earplugs DIY HIFI Bass Headset Kill Monk Earbud
 http://s.aliexpress.com/I7NjINVn 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## flamesofarctica

ozkan said:


> Is this the same Seahf 32s with mic that you have?
> 
> 2017 New Seahf AWK-F32 In Ear Earphone 32ohms Earbud Flat Head Plug Earplugs DIY HIFI Bass Headset Kill Monk Earbud
> http://s.aliexpress.com/I7NjINVn
> (from AliExpress Android)




Yep that's the one. The other is same seller, no mic and a few quid more, and has a sort of clear whitish cable. That one might just have the edge, but is more expensive as I say and has no mic (although that doesn't bother me). Either way, it's close and both sound outstanding to my ears.

Haven't tried the mic yet btw. Pleased to say the mic is really light though and doesn't cause the earbud to pull out at all (which can put me off mic'd options)

Edit, just plugged into my phone and tried a call with the mic, all fine.


----------



## Blueshound24

Sorry if I missed it, but has it been determined the EPK1 has the same drivers as  nicehck diy pk2 ?


----------



## golov17

blueshound24 said:


> Sorry if I missed it, but has it been determined the [COLOR=FF4400]EPK1[/COLOR] has the same drivers as  [COLOR=22229C]nicehck[/COLOR][COLOR=22229C] [/COLOR][COLOR=FF4400]diy[/COLOR][COLOR=22229C] pk2[/COLOR] ?


32 vs 16 Ohm


----------



## rkw

Is DIY PK2 supposed to be a cheaper equivalent of Yuin PK2?


----------



## golov17

rkw said:


> Is DIY PK2 supposed to be a cheaper equivalent of Yuin PK2?


pk2 16 ohm too


----------



## Blueshound24

golov17 said:


> dbaldock9 said:
> 
> 
> > How does the DIY PK2 ($20) compare to the Qian25 & Qian39 (~$6)?
> ...


 
  
  


golov17 said:


> blueshound24 said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry if I missed it, but has it been determined the EPK1 has the same drivers as  nicehck diy pk2 ?
> ...


 
  
 So your'e saying the DIY PK2 can be compared to higher level buds instead of Qians, such as the Cygnus and BK.
  
 And the EPK1 has different drivers than the DIY PK2. (32 vs 16 Ohms)
  
*So would you recommend the DIY PK2 over the EPK1? Or have you compared the two?*
  
 Thanks for your input.


----------



## golov17

https://goo.gl/jbxE87


----------



## Saoshyant

@golov17 I'm still curious how you got a .78mm 2-pin to fit a Rose earbud, unless they changed their pins on newer models


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> @golov17
> I'm still curious how you got a .78mm 2-pin to fit a Rose earbud, unless they changed their pins on newer models


 I myself am shocked, however.. they work


----------



## ClieOS

You can force a 0.78mm pin into a 0.75mm socket, but the socket won't hold a 0.75mm pin anymore after that, at least not securely.


----------



## ClieOS

*[NOTICE]* Those of you who frequent Chinese headphone forums / Taobao might have found a new Celsus Sound earbud model called either 'Gramo One Pro' or 'G1 Pro' selling around US$270+ in China right now - avoid it. I contacted Sonic Unity (Celsus Sound parent company / brand owner) and confirm that it is not actually from them.


----------



## golov17

clieos said:


> [COLOR=FF0000]*[NOTICE]*[/COLOR] Those of you who frequent Chinese headphone forums / Taobao might have found a new Celsus Sound earbud model called either 'Gramo One Pro' or 'G1 Pro' selling around US$270+ in China right now - avoid it. I contacted Sonic Unity (Celsus Sound parent company / brand owner) and confirm that it is not actually from them.


Thanks a lot


----------



## tinkertailor

blueshound24 said:


> So your'e saying the DIY PK2 can be compared to higher level buds instead of Qians, such as the Cygnus and BK.


 
 I'm not sure that Qians are worse than even the genuine pk series, let alone the diy knock offs. imo. (That said, the NICEHCK might possibly be superior to genuine yuins, so who knows).


----------



## Redcarmoose

http://www.head-fi.org/products/edifier-k180/reviews/18480


Learned of the Edifier H180 from this thread, purchased the slighly different K180 with a 7 food cord.


----------



## ATi7500

Guys,
  
 I am about to buy another batch of budget earphones. Here are the models:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-NICEHCK-DIY-Earbud-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud-Dynamic-Flat-Head-Plug-Earbud-Bass-HIFI-Earphone/32806045266.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.262.PLhbp6
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2017-New-Seahf-32S-In-Ear-Earphone-32ohms-Earbud-Flat-Head-Plug-Earplugs-DIY-HIFI-Bass/32791280559.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.265.PLhbp6
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Arrival-32ohm-DIY-Earphone-Earbud-DJ-HiFi-Earphone-as-monks-earphone-MX500-fone-de-ouvido/32711687328.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.281.PLhbp6
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-Boarseman-K25-In-ear-Earphone-Noise-Cancelling-Hifi-EarBuds-3-5mm-DIY-Auriculares-Flat-Head/32772553719.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.288.PLhbp6
  
 Do you approve all of them, or should I skip some?


----------



## AkashS04

golov17 said:


> David, this should be compared with Shozy Cygnus and BK, and not with Qians ..


 
 In What  sense it is compared to these two costly buds you mentioned? Is it Yuin PK2? Good for what I am looking for?


----------



## Saoshyant

Ok, trying to think of all the newer budget earbuds that have come out.  There's the DIY PK2, the Vido, what else am I forgetting?


----------



## robervaul

Oh my, the Svara is available on Ali.


----------



## kvad

robervaul said:


> Oh my, the Svara is available on Ali.


 

 ​Heard anything more about them? ClieOS had a short and positive early impression a little while ago, but that's all I've heard about them. They do look intriguing.


----------



## golov17

saoshyant said:


> Ok, trying to think of all the newer budget earbuds that have come out.  There's the DIY PK2, the Vido, what else am I forgetting?


EPK1, Benjie


----------



## robervaul

kvad said:


> ​Heard anything more about them? ClieOS had a short and positive early impression a little while ago, but that's all I've heard about them. They do look intriguing.


 
 This one looks quite tempting to try out actually.


----------



## headjelly

Do you have a link, please?


robervaul said:


> Oh my, the Svara is available on Ali.


----------



## Saoshyant

headjelly said:


> Do you have a link, please?




Banned seller


----------



## kvad

robervaul said:


> This one looks quite tempting to try out actually.


 

 ​Sigh - another earbud on it's way : )


----------



## Spider fan

The DIY PK2 is appreciating in value fast.  $21 to $27 in 2 days.  Thats way  better than investing in the stock market.


----------



## 93EXCivic

Well NiceHCK DIY PK2 ordered.


----------



## 93EXCivic

saoshyant said:


> Banned seller


 

 Doesn't NiceHCK have it too?
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-NICEHCK-SVARA-L-Flat-Head-Earphone-HIFI-Monitor-Earbud-Earphone-Top-Sound-Bass-Earbud-With/1825606_32807384267.html


----------



## Saoshyant

93excivic said:


> Doesn't NiceHCK have it too?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-NICEHCK-SVARA-L-Flat-Head-Earphone-HIFI-Monitor-Earbud-Earphone-Top-Sound-Bass-Earbud-With/1825606_32807384267.html




Wasn't there 20 minutes ago, will order from HCK.


----------



## Ira Delphic

spider fan said:


> The DIY PK2 is appreciating in value fast.  $21 to $27 in 2 days.  Thats way  better than investing in the stock market.


 
  
 I ordered on April 21 for the lower price. Still awaiting shipment but that's OK.


----------



## Saoshyant

Just bought Svara, DIY PK2 which I will enjoy jokingly comparing to my old DIY PK2 I haven't listened to in years, as well as the Vido.


----------



## AkashS04

golov17 said:


> EPK1, Benjie


 
 Yuin PK2 does not have Mic. And costly too at $45 to $60 range. Any better alternate?


----------



## ATi7500

akashs04 said:


> Yuin PK2 does not have Mic. And costly too at $45 to $60 range. Any better alternate?


 
 He already recommended the Vido, *why you keep asking the same question and expecting different answers?* seriously, it's been months, just get what we recommend and try them yourself...


----------



## rkw

How about DIY PK*1 *(150 ohm)? Are any of those good?


----------



## golov17

akashs04 said:


> Yuin PK2 does not have Mic. And costly too at $45 to $60 range. Any better alternate?


 https://goo.gl/7H7StP


----------



## silverfishla

rkw said:


> How about DIY PK*1 *(150 ohm)? Are any of those good?



Which ones are you referring to? I have a pair and they are built nicely but don't sound that great, so I would beware.


----------



## Saoshyant

rkw said:


> How about DIY PK*1 *(150 ohm)? Are any of those good?




Depends which DIY you're referring to, got a link?


----------



## golov17

http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds/990#post_13449954


----------



## robervaul

golov17 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds/990#post_13449954


 
 Nice golov. Thanks.

 I need a 20 earbuds rank lol


----------



## rkw

saoshyant said:


> rkw said:
> 
> 
> > How about DIY PK*1 *(150 ohm)? Are any of those good?
> ...


 
  
 I don't have a particular one in mind — looking for recommendations from the dozen on AliExpress.
  
 I would be interested in a DIY that has similar sound to an actual Yuin PK1. I have owned Yuin PK2 and PK3, and like the Yuin sound signature. I know that amplification would be needed at 150 ohms.


----------



## AkashS04

golov17 said:


> https://goo.gl/7H7StP


 
 Very nice looking. Are they Bassy with good Sub-Bass, Warm and with Mic. I cannot see if Mic is there or not but if they are better than SHE3800 and with Mic, I can surely buy them. Thanks for suggestion. Must be much better than Edifier P190 in Bass and Warmness


----------



## AkashS04

ati7500 said:


> He already recommended the Vido, *why you keep asking the same question and expecting different answers?* seriously, it's been months, just get what we recommend and try them yourself...


 
  


golov17 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds/990#post_13449954


 
 Is this the Vido Earbud you were talking about:
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-NICEHCK-DIY-Earbud-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud-Dynamic-Flat-Head-Plug-Earbud-Bass-HIFI-Earphone/32806045266.html?spm=6aoD9P&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0%25252Csearchweb201602_2_10152_10065_10151_10068_10130_10136_10137_10060_10138_9999_10155_10062_10156_10154_10056_10055_10054_10059_10099_10103_10102_10096_10148_10147_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10051_10084_10083_10119_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10179_10181_10037_10033_10032_10078_10079_10077_10073_10070_10123_10120_10124-9999_10033_10077%25252Csearchweb201603_1%25252Cafswitch_1_afChannel%25252CppcSwitch_2&btsid=257dd683-0656-43ce-b847-ef3c50858204&algo_expid=91e0a413-656a-427b-8014-bb55dde81777-0&algo_pvid=91e0a413-656a-427b-8014-bb55dde81777&aff_platform=aaf&cpt=1492773141370&aff_trace_key=ec7bfd407bed4fd0b7950ef6f54a1691-1492773141370-05500-6mia6uv&aff_platform=aaf&cpt=1493056890659&sk=VnYZvQVf&aff_trace_key=e5bd401390c0483c9365d725ec1f177d-1493056890659-05197-VnYZvQVf


----------



## tintheman

Hi Golov, have you tried the sharp 1 bit earbuds before, what is your take on them?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/390942638068?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## ozkan

ati7500 said:


> He already recommended the Vido, *why you keep asking the same question and expecting different answers?* seriously, it's been months, just get what we recommend and try them yourself...




No way! Vido doesn't have a flat cable and he insists on warm bassy sound and the most important it should have a flat cable lol.


----------



## AkashS04

ozkan said:


> No way! Vido doesn't have a flat cable and he insists on warm bassy sound and the most important it should have a flat cable lol.


 
 No. While I surely like to have Flat cable but that is not mandatory. Good sound with utmost comfort is much more important. A nice looking earbud with not good sound and uncomfortable, no one will like that.


----------



## AkashS04

ozkan said:


> No way! Vido doesn't have a flat cable and he insists on warm bassy sound and the most important it should have a flat cable lol.


 
 However, Mic is important for me to have.


----------



## tintheman

akashs04 said:


> No. While I surely like to have Flat cable but that is not mandatory. Good sound with utmost comfort is much more important. A nice looking earbud with not good sound and uncomfortable, no one will like that.


 
 Just to make sure you don't ask another thousand times, please check this one after Golov's recommendation...
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/BassX-SMARTplus-Black-earbuds/322396780605?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D40130%26meid%3D946a138768f842508664db67122ea9f0%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D272614697843&rt=nc


----------



## CharlesRievone

tintheman said:


> Just to make sure you don't ask another thousand times, please check this one after Golov's recommendation...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/BassX-SMARTplus-Black-earbuds/322396780605?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D40130%26meid%3D946a138768f842508664db67122ea9f0%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D272614697843&rt=nc


 

 He will then just ask if Oleg or yourself have tried it, and if has Earth-Shaking Sub-Bass(tm) and Warm Sound(tm) with Good Clarity(tm), and it should be cheap!
  
 Not trying to be rude or anything but.. *shrugs*


----------



## AkashS04

tintheman said:


> Just to make sure you don't ask another thousand times, please check this one after Golov's recommendation...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/BassX-SMARTplus-Black-earbuds/322396780605?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D40130%26meid%3D946a138768f842508664db67122ea9f0%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D272614697843&rt=nc


 
 Great. The link Golov shared was dffrnt and not having any info about Mic. So this is good, Bassy and Warm with greater clarity than SHE3800? I will buy this for sure.


----------



## flamesofarctica

ati7500 said:


> Guys,
> 
> I am about to buy another batch of budget earphones. Here are the models:
> 
> ...




Top link I believe is Vido which has had some recommendations.

Second link is Seahf 32S which has had one recommendation (me!): http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/19815#post_13445015

Third link, Faaeal 32, and fourth link, Boarseman 25 are OK IMO but nothing special either.


----------



## AkashS04

flamesofarctica said:


> Top link I believe is Vido which has had some recommendations.
> 
> Second link is Seahf 32S which has had one recommendation (me!): http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up/19815#post_13445015
> 
> Third link, Faaeal 32, and fourth link, Boarseman 25 are OK IMO but nothing special either.


 
 What is special in Vido Earbud?


----------



## AkashS04

Vido Earbud speakers are big like Monk+ or will be good fit for small ears?


----------



## flamesofarctica

akashs04 said:


> Vido Earbud speakers are big like Monk+ or will be good fit for small ears?







akashs04 said:


> What is special in Vido Earbud?




Have it on order, I don't know yet. But it's liked enough that a couple of guys on Headfi have been persuading AliExpress sellers to stock it, so that says something to me.

You should try Seahf 32s, you won't really like the fit (similar to Monk) or cable (similar to Monk), but the bass is very capable including sub-bass, good mids and clarity, and it has a mic


----------



## Spider fan

Lol you guys are all cracking me up.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Also, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 that my new glass toslink seems to make my earbuds sound even better to me.   I figured it would just sound like my cheap monoprice one.  It makes my Red Demuns sound Earth-Shaking Sub-Bass(tm) and Warm Sound(tm) with Good Clarity(tm).  Ok not really but what earbuds really do.


----------



## Makahl

I miss the old days of this thread... I hope some admin can understand this guy is just baiting here. I'm trying to figure out a new earbud to buy but I just can read about basshead earbuds it's a bit annoying.

 My advice, like the IEMs guys have their special thread designed to bassheads, I think it is a good idea you guys create a similar one about earbuds bassheads and mods to achieve that.

 Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Blueshound24

charlesrievone said:


> tintheman said:
> 
> 
> > Just to make sure you don't ask another thousand times, please check this one after Golov's recommendation...
> ...


 
  
 You forgot flat cable and mic... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 *shrugs* as well...


----------



## Blueshound24

makahl said:


> I miss the old days of this thread... I hope some admin can understand this guy is just baiting here. I'm trying to figure out a new earbud to buy but I just can read about basshead earbuds it's a bit annoying.
> 
> *My advice, like the IEMs guys have their special thread designed to bassheads, I think it is a good idea you guys create a similar one about earbuds bassheads and mods to achieve that.*
> 
> Just my 2 cents.


 
  
 Sound like a good idea to me.


----------



## nmatheis

akashs04 said:


> Is this the Vido Earbud you were talking about:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-NICEHCK-DIY-Earbud-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud-Dynamic-Flat-Head-Plug-Earbud-Bass-HIFI-Earphone/32806045266.html?spm=6aoD9P&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0%25252Csearchweb201602_2_10152_10065_10151_10068_10130_10136_10137_10060_10138_9999_10155_10062_10156_10154_10056_10055_10054_10059_10099_10103_10102_10096_10148_10147_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10051_10084_10083_10119_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10179_10181_10037_10033_10032_10078_10079_10077_10073_10070_10123_10120_10124-9999_10033_10077%25252Csearchweb201603_1%25252Cafswitch_1_afChannel%25252CppcSwitch_2&btsid=257dd683-0656-43ce-b847-ef3c50858204&algo_expid=91e0a413-656a-427b-8014-bb55dde81777-0&algo_pvid=91e0a413-656a-427b-8014-bb55dde81777&aff_platform=aaf&cpt=1492773141370&aff_trace_key=ec7bfd407bed4fd0b7950ef6f54a1691-1492773141370-05500-6mia6uv&aff_platform=aaf&cpt=1493056890659&sk=VnYZvQVf&aff_trace_key=e5bd401390c0483c9365d725ec1f177d-1493056890659-05197-VnYZvQVf







tintheman said:


> Just to make sure you don't ask another thousand times, please check this one after Golov's recommendation...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/BassX-SMARTplus-Black-earbuds/322396780605?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D40130%26meid%3D946a138768f842508664db67122ea9f0%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D272614697843&rt=nc




Holy Moly! Please use the *LINK* tool, guys. It's available in both desktop and mobile browser modes. Super easy to use and takes up waaaay less space on the page.


----------



## golov17

nmatheis said:


> Holy Moly! Please use the *LINK* tool, guys. It's available in both desktop and mobile browser modes. Super easy to use and takes up waaaay less space on the page.


 yup  
https://goo.gl/


----------



## Yobster69

Hi all. I am wondering if somebody might be able to chime in and help with something? I have been listening to the Hi-Z 650's recently, and whilst they are decent sounding I am just not overly impressed considering the price and TOTL status. I am enjoying much cheaper buds a lot more (including the Hi-Z 150's and 32S's), finding the 650's just do not have the extension at both ends and a rather 'lifeless hollow' sound.
Now I am generally a believer in burn in, I am confident I have heard it with some phones and speakers, and that the 650's can require up to 200 hours worth to shine (I have around 50 hours on them so far). But has anybody found this to be true and genuinely felt that these need this amount to become impressive?
I am aware that it could just be that these buds are not to my liking. But I do not want to give up on them just yet incase some of the magic takes hold and I sell something that could have been a proper keeper. 
Thanks in advance.


----------



## ProspektFi

Hi guys. Reading these positive impressions I'm tempted to buy the NiceHCK DIY PK2... Do you think it would be an upgrade over the earbuds I own? I like balanced, refined sound with big soundstage, possibly with a nice and precise bass that not cover the other frequencies. 
  
 EDIT: to be more precise, a nice goal would be to have PT15 sound signature and detail with more bass and a soundstage similar (bigger even better) to Candy Monk+.


----------



## Redcarmoose

yobster69 said:


> Hi all. I am wondering if somebody might be able to chime in and help with something? I have been listening to the Hi-Z 650's recently, and whilst they are decent sounding I am just not overly impressed considering the price and TOTL status. I am enjoying much cheaper buds a lot more (including the Hi-Z 150's and 32S's), finding the 650's just do not have the extension at both ends and a rather 'lifeless hollow' sound.
> Now I am generally a believer in burn in, I am confident I have heard it with some phones and speakers, and that the 650's can require up to 200 hours worth to shine (I have around 50 hours on them so far). But has anybody found this to be true and genuinely felt that these need this amount to become impressive?
> I am aware that it could just be that these buds are not to my liking. But I do not want to give up on them just yet incase some of the magic takes hold and I sell something that could have been a proper keeper.
> Thanks in advance.




http://www.head-fi.org/products/ty-hi-z-650/reviews/17070

He recommends three days in this review.


----------



## Yobster69

redcarmoose said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/products/ty-hi-z-650/reviews/17070
> 
> He recommends three days in this review.


Thank you, this answers my question perfectly, a resounding yes. Onto the burner then.....


----------



## AkashS04

My Monk+ stopped working. I was mainly using it to take calls as it does not fit well due to large size speakers. As Seahf 32S is also large size earbuds but recommendations are that it is good in terms of Bass and clarity and warmness, but how durable they are? I can now order either BassX (ELECOM) or Seahf 32S or may be Edifier P190. Looks $5-6 earbuds are not durable as earlier one $3 earbud sttoped working and now Monk+.


----------



## AkashS04

Difference between MDR-E808LP and MDR-E808+? Or both are same?


----------



## Ira Delphic

yobster69 said:


> Hi all. I am wondering if somebody might be able to chime in and help with something? I have been listening to the Hi-Z 650's recently, and whilst they are decent sounding I am just not overly impressed considering the price and TOTL status. I am enjoying much cheaper buds a lot more (including the Hi-Z 150's and 32S's), finding the 650's just do not have the extension at both ends and a rather 'lifeless hollow' sound.
> Now I am generally a believer in burn in, I am confident I have heard it with some phones and speakers, and that the 650's can require up to 200 hours worth to shine (I have around 50 hours on them so far). But has anybody found this to be true and genuinely felt that these need this amount to become impressive?
> I am aware that it could just be that these buds are not to my liking. But I do not want to give up on them just yet incase some of the magic takes hold and I sell something that could have been a proper keeper.
> Thanks in advance.


 
  
 I'm not a believer in burn in for earbuds, and never noticed a difference in my Ty HP650. They sounded great first listen out of the box. 
 "'lifeless hollow' sound" - for me just the opposite. Listening to some types of music with my 650's is like being in the Matrix, brings me down into the rabbit hole which is a good thing!


----------



## 93EXCivic

What are the most Grado like earbuds under $150? I am in no hurry to get them so price isn't a huge issue.


----------



## kvik

yobster69 said:


> Hi all. I am wondering if somebody might be able to chime in and help with something? I have been listening to the Hi-Z 650's recently, and whilst they are decent sounding I am just not overly impressed considering the price and TOTL status. I am enjoying much cheaper buds a lot more (including the Hi-Z 150's and 32S's), finding the 650's just do not have the extension at both ends and a rather 'lifeless hollow' sound.
> Now I am generally a believer in burn in, I am confident I have heard it with some phones and speakers, and that the 650's can require up to 200 hours worth to shine (I have around 50 hours on them so far). But has anybody found this to be true and genuinely felt that these need this amount to become impressive?
> I am aware that it could just be that these buds are not to my liking. But I do not want to give up on them just yet incase some of the magic takes hold and I sell something that could have been a proper keeper.
> Thanks in advance.


 
 I ended up giving my HP650 away, didn’t think I could charge anything for them, as they sounded completely off to my ears - dry and distant, like sitting all the way back in a concert hall, or even in foyer listening through open doors. (This was after 100h burn-in). Considering the overly positive reviews on here, maybe there are driver QC issues, I don’t know. Honestly wouldn’t recommend HP650 to anyone, based on my experience (which was in november 2016).


----------



## Ira Delphic

kvik said:


> yobster69 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi all. I am wondering if somebody might be able to chime in and help with something? I have been listening to the Hi-Z 650's recently, and whilst they are decent sounding I am just not overly impressed considering the price and TOTL status. I am enjoying much cheaper buds a lot more (including the Hi-Z 150's and 32S's), finding the 650's just do not have the extension at both ends and a rather 'lifeless hollow' sound.
> ...


 
  
 Not everyone likes the HP650. I think overall the comments are mixed. You may have gotten a bad pair or maybe too flat sounding for your taste - as in like a monitor headphone.  For example, @vapman was ready to sell them, not enough energy or whatever. They are not for everyone. For me an all rounder. There are the very positive reviews, and you have to take all reviews with a grain of salt.


----------



## AkashS04

Has anyone used these? How are they:

http://myepads.com/index.php/accessories/super-bass-15mm-driver-with-flat-cable-earphone-w-290.html/


----------



## silverre

My pt15 and k's 64 from aliexpress anniversary sales finally came~~

Am i wrong to like the k's 64 more than my candy monks?? I feel that it is more refined in the highs and mids and has a wider soundstage. But the monks have a more prominent bass and has no microphonics. The K's cable makes sooo much noise when moving around  

Pt15 are still in the oven burning..

Still waiting for the zishan z1 to reach so that i can burn them tgt in the oven~~


----------



## AkashS04

Any link to Foam Cushions which comes with SHE3800. Not looking for Heigi as they are expensive. Other good quality ones will be fine but the one which comes with SHE3800 are more like cloth and fits well. But any suggestion is welcomed.


----------



## knudsen

93EXCivic said:


> What are the most Grado like earbuds under $150? I am in no hurry to get them so price isn't a huge issue.



I've never head a pair of Grado, but have seen Edifier H180 called mini-grados. I destroyed my old ones trying to recable them, but just got a new pair today. Sounds excellent to me, much better than I remembered, or maybe they've changed the sound a bit (old ones were 3 years old I think). Also maybe look a red demun or edimun v3


----------



## ctaxxxx

knudsen said:


> I've never head a pair of Grado, but have seen Edifier H180 called mini-grados. I destroyed my old ones trying to recable them, but just got a new pair today. Sounds excellent to me, much better than I remembered, or maybe they've changed the sound a bit (old ones were 3 years old I think). Also maybe look a red demun or edimun v3



I've owned some Grado's. Red Demun and Edimun would be that exact opposite of what he is looking for. Blue Demun would actually be closer. Grado's are bright as hell, with sub-bass roll off. Liked them when I first got into headphones, but now I can't stand them. Just look up earbuds that sound bright, tinny, and uncomfortable, and it should match.


----------



## DBaldock9

Question about technique ---  When you're using double (or triple) foams - Do you place the foams inside each other, and then install them on your earbuds, or - Do you stack them on the earbuds, one at a time?


----------



## silverfishla

One at a time.


DBaldock9 said:


> Question about technique ---  When you're using double (or triple) foams - Do you place the foams inside each other, and then install them on your earbuds, or - Do you stack them on the earbuds, one at a time?


----------



## knudsen (Apr 28, 2017)

ctaxxxx said:


> I've owned some Grado's. Red Demun and Edimun would be that exact opposite of what he is looking for. Blue Demun would actually be closer. Grado's are bright as hell, with sub-bass roll off. Liked them when I first got into headphones, but now I can't stand them. Just look up earbuds that sound bright, tinny, and uncomfortable, and it should match.



Well good thing that was corrected  I was referring to the 2 last H180 reviews here:

https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/edifier-hi-fi-stereo-headphone-h180-black.15972/

I don't recognize this grado-signature in the H180 sound, but I'm guessing these gentlemen refer to upper mids/treble. I don't find the H180 uncomfortable bright, though it is surely brighter than for example SHE3800 to my ears. I've never heard the indonese ones.


----------



## Yobster69

Definitely one at a time. Carefully stretch the second one over the first then use your fingernails or some plastic tweezers to pull them over. 
I do it with doughnut foams, but most of the generic ones do have the hole dead centre so it can be tricky making them look decent on both sides. But the Hiegi's work perfectly.


----------



## cocolinho

Hi!
Selling my K's 500 for a good price in EU, PM if interested, I'll add the classification later today. Thanks


----------



## weedophile

Got my K's 300 and Yinman 150. Gotta say they are pretty good sounding but i kinda love my modded Awei ES10 with MX500 shell hmmmm

Edit: And the new layout sucks lol


----------



## headjelly

weedophile said:


> Got my K's 300 and Yinman 150. Gotta say they are pretty good sounding but i kinda love my modded Awei ES10 with MX500 shell hmmmm


Can you post the pics and description of the mod here or in the DIY thread, please?


----------



## ProLoL

Selling Ty Hi Z 650 for 85 USD, contact me.


----------



## Yobster69

Does anybody own or have the SVARA-L on order yet? Really interested in hearing about these and any comparisons


----------



## golov17




----------



## golov17

https://goo.gl/wBawJZ


----------



## golov17

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072DZ4VH...id=1493463732&amp;sr=1-1&amp;keywords=PMV+B01


----------



## golov17




----------



## rkw

golov17 said:


>


Thanks for the find. It looks interesting to me and I'm going to give it a try. The description says:
_15. Earphone  category: HIFI, Monitor
16. Applicable type of music: Classical symphonic concert_​so it probably has neutral signature which is what I want for classical music.


----------



## golov17

I hope you like them


----------



## DBaldock9

Yobster69 said:


> Does anybody own or have the SVARA-L on order yet? Really interested in hearing about these and any comparisons



Somewhere, in one of the Head-Fi threads, @ClieOS mentions getting a set, but hasn't yet given any detailed listening comparisons.


----------



## teston

I'm still waiting for clieos to give some impressions about the svara L


----------



## rkw

golov17 said:


>


Hi golov, I want to make sure I understand. Do I wait until 5/1 before I see the $29 price?


----------



## kvad

teston said:


> I'm still waiting for clieos to give some impressions about the svara L



He gave a brief early impression back in post 19826.


----------



## ClieOS

Svara-L - tilting toward the warm side with a rich, smooth, fairly musical and relexing sound, plus a very good soundstage. Overall probably a Contender level, more or less. It is only $60 on Taobao and punching way above its price.


----------



## rggz

Hey @ClieOS! Is there an improvement on v2 version of K's earphone over the v1? Also, can you say which category the 64 Ohms would fit? If I remember correctly the 300 Ohms was a good one in your list.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

*A closer look at the EPK1*: *Note, I can not post up a link to the product*






_Intro _- The EPK1 is a custom built earbud using PK1 type housings.

_Build _- The EPK1 has a well thought out design and materials. The cable is soft, pliable and quite light. The 3.5mm plug has substantial strain relief. The silver jewelry along with the chin sliders adds a lot of personality to these earbuds. The only issue is that the thinner cables can tangle near the housings from time to time.

_Sound _- The focus of the signature is that of the mids and highs. There is a large amount of clarity and detail with the EPK1 playback. Bass is delicate, as the lows are very laid back with little power. This is not an earbud for bass lovers. During certain tracks, the EPK1 can get a touch bright, though not to the levels of being harsh. Soundstage has a good depth, separation and a nice airy feel.

_Driving _- With a rating of 32Ω, they are easy enough to drive, though I've found the EPK1 pairs best with warmer sources, such as the Fiio X1 2nd Gen.
_
Final Thoughts_ - The EPK1 is an earbud for those looking for a high amount of clarity in the mids and highs, with less focus on the lows. It has a quality build, though prone to tangle at times. Overall, you are really getting a lot for this price range.













--


----------



## golov17

Same like new batch Yuin PK3 IMHO


----------



## kurtextrem

ClieOS said:


> Svara-L - tilting toward the warm side with a rich, smooth, fairly musical and relexing sound, plus a very good soundstage. Overall probably a Contender level, more or less. It is only $60 on Taobao and punching way above its price.


So no contender to the Shozy BK?


----------



## ClieOS

rggz said:


> Hey @ClieOS! Is there an improvement on v2 version of K's earphone over the v1? Also, can you say which category the 64 Ohms would fit? If I remember correctly the 300 Ohms was a good one in your list.



K's 500ohm v2 is a 'small' upgrade over v1 - small in the sense that v1 is already a really great sounding earbuds, and v2 is more of an evolution than a revolution. The main area of difference is that v2 is tuned more toward as a all-rounder than v1 that is more suitable for fast / live music and especially rock.

I never rated (or listened to) the original K's 300ohm before. While I haven't really done much ranking / comparative listening these days but I reckon K's 300 v2 probably is somewhere in the upper great where K64 is in the mid to lower great.



kurtextrem said:


> So no contender to the Shozy BK?


It is damn good, but not quite ToTL yet.


----------



## piotrek1214

hello,

I searching budget earbuds (4-8USD) with microphone to my smartphone, that why i searching for good quality mic. 
I now using BYZ S600 but they have really poor quality microphone.

I read some topics about earbuds but i never find any test about microphone. Can someone recommend me earbuds with good quality microphone??


----------



## AkashS04

golov17 said:


>



To me, these looks like http://www.valore.sg/Valore/project/valore-earphone-with-mic-ep0008/

But EP0008 are with Enhanced Bass and very good sound. Unfortunately I could not buy them while I was in Singapore as they were expensive (S$ 39. Usual price S$ 44) and now they are available at S$ 13.5  

How are the one above (*2017 PMV B01 AOEDE*) in terms of sound quality? Any review?


----------



## AkashS04

piotrek1214 said:


> hello,
> 
> I searching budget earbuds (4-8USD) with microphone to my smartphone, that why i searching for good quality mic.
> I now using BYZ S600 but they have really poor quality microphone.
> ...



Try these: https://goo.gl/bP2yYE

I tried them. They are good and very good sound quality good quality Mic. However, one of the speakers stopped working in my case but that might happen (considering the price) as my Monk+ also stopped working now (mic not working any more).


----------



## golov17

@AkashS04, no, other buds


----------



## loganmark

What about SoundPEATS? Any experience with that.


----------



## AkashS04

golov17 said:


> @AkashS04, no, other buds



Ok. How are they? Good? I also asked about Elecom and MYEPADS Earbuds about their sound quality? Pls suggest among these trhee. How are these one which you posted recently?


----------



## christionk

Hello guys, im new here ^_^

Anyone here using Fiio X5III + YINMAN 600 Ohm combo ? 
i wonder what kind of portable amp do you guys use ?

For now im using CMOY Rechargeable + LME49710NA ( if im not wrong, this OPAMP would enable me to drive 600ohm ) , but i still feel like Yinman 600 have more potential if paired with a correct amp. ( simply saying, i dont really think cmoy + lme49710 output power is able to drive 600ohm )

Here in Indonesia not many people own Yinman 600ohm, hence i would like to hear your 2cents about powering this Yinman 600ohm.

*notes : i would like the amp to be as portable as possible to pair with my Fiio X5III = )
*notes : i'm eyeing FIIO A5, on paper it said up to 300ohm maks, however ive been reading reviews that people pair it with beyer dt880 & r70x and have good reviews on them. 

Thankyou before ^_^


----------



## weedophile

headjelly said:


> Can you post the pics and description of the mod here or in the DIY thread, please?


Hey mate, sry i havent been frequenting this forum ever since the change in the layout as i use it mostly on mobile and it isnt really friendly right now lol


----------



## Danneq

weedophile said:


> Hey mate, sry i havent been frequenting this forum ever since the change in the layout as i use it mostly on mobile and it isnt really friendly right now lol



Tell me about it! The browser on my old Sony android mobile phone crashes whenever I enter the new Head fi site. It works better with my Lenovo android tablet (I'm using it now). Still, desktop is the best but the new site unfortunately lacks many basic features such as "search thread"...


----------



## weedophile

@Danneq Yea its so hard to navigate the site. But at least now i can get ard my subscriptions lol. And there's a mobile site too!

Hope it gets better tho. The old site was simple but it does its job.


----------



## Ira Delphic

Agreed. And this new site is stifling discussion. There are still bugs to be worked out and not mobile friendly on my V10.


----------



## VShaft (May 1, 2017)

I have a question for you earbud lovers...

Usually, I prefer iEMs over earbuds, but in the office when I'm listening to music I've found IEMs _too_ isolating to the point that I can become unaware of my surroundings. So far, this fact didn't matter, but I'd still prefer to be able to hear at least on the edge of my perception what's going on around me.

To this end I'm looking for a budget earbud, that'll give me a nice sound. I'm not willing to spend much - around $10, max, and I know there's plenty of choice in the Chi-fi market. This thread is massive, and I've only been able to skim through it.

I've narrowed the choice to the classic *TY HI-Z 32* and *FAAEAL 32 ohm*. I've also looked at the Edifier H180 or H185, but am leaning toward the former pair. Can you recommend one, or perhaps another ("better") in the same price range?

I'd be listening to internet radio in the office mostly: rock, hard rock, americana, country, heavy metal, prog metal. No electronic music. I'm not really sure as to what sound signature I prefer... I'd say slightly U-shaped, or neutral with a small bump in the low end. Also, I'm not treble sensitive, but wouldn't like something overly bright (for fear of fatigue, I'd be wearing the earbud daily for hours on end).


----------



## golov17

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/absolute-best-budget-earbuds.812853/


----------



## AkashS04

golov17 said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/absolute-best-budget-earbuds.812853/


Pls suggest me abt ELECOM and MYEPADS. Which is the best choice ?


----------



## VShaft

golov17 said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/absolute-best-budget-earbuds.812853/


Yeah, that might've been a better place to ask the question. Thanks!


----------



## Trzystatrzy

somebody can compare VE Monk V1 with Remax RM303? Remax have smaller housing than Monk, right?


----------



## golov17

https://goo.gl/6aWKhb
28usd for friends


----------



## luedriver

I haven't got any email notifications since the change, does anyone know how to fix it?

sorry for the OOT question


----------



## Saoshyant

Currently I have the DIY PK2, PMV, Svara-L, HCK's "Vido", and a Vido with mic on the way.  Almost forgot, a Crow Audio Raven too!


----------



## AkashS04

golov17 said:


> https://goo.gl/6aWKhb
> 28usd for friends



Is it worth $39? What is good in this? Any review? Also, any Mic version?


----------



## fairx (May 2, 2017)

I tried to search but now head fi in still in mess.

Question is; is there any in depth review of diy pk2 yet?

And gosh.. Currency is hetting better on my side but the price of diy pk2 increased again. Is there any discount mentioning this thread or earbud anonymous?


----------



## golov17

@fairx, read Cygnus thread, same drivers, same sig, same SQ..


----------



## fairx

Guess i don't have to wait for review then. Thanks!


----------



## noknok23 (May 31, 2017)

I would like to share my impressions of Campfred and Blue Darth since I own both. On a sidenote you get an idea of my liking of the aune M1s and the Zishan Z1.

_For those who are not familiar with Zishan Z1, it's a direct competitor of the Walnut V2 and my understanding is that it share some similarities with the HIFIMAN line of DAP in term of sound signature.  I am using the Zishan Z1 with the Signetics NE5532 op-amp_.

First thing I noticed with Blue Darth it that 100h burn is mandatory. They sound very weird out of the box and I was quite underwhelmed. It's only after  almost a week of constant burn-in I got to feel satisfied with it's sound quality.
Because of it's bass focused signature, I was afraid it would be close to Edimun v3 which has a very powerful but boomy bass with narrow sound-stage that I find very fatiguing and lacking in the details.  But something completely different happened. Imo basshead will be disappointed if they are looking for the killing bass with the Blue Darth. It's fairly dark and warm but still remains balanced and smooth, open and detailed.~

 The first time I listened to them (the Blue Darth) was with the aune on the balanced output. I thought they sounded "fine". Like "Ok I get it, it's an entry level" kind of fine. Indeed the BD does a weird match with the aune. The refinement of airy details, open soundstage, smooth low end, and overall lean signature of the aune lose it's character with the more narrow and flattering presentation of the BD. Each would cancel the other on and overall presentation would be kind of bland. It's still sound very good, don't get me wrong but next to the fantastic result that I got with Campfred, I was kind of spoiled.

Contrary to what I could read by some, I do not feel in any way the lack of bass with the Campfred. The extension is the best I've heard. It actually go lower than BD to my ears. The high extend very well also without being harsh.
The overall sound is smooth but not boring. It's engaging, detailed and revealing but not fatiguing. CF are worthy transmitters of the such polished and well-craft sound the aune is made of. A (slightly) warm, fun and detailed nature complement very well the richness, realism and transparency of this dap imo. It gives me goosebumps listening to early Autechre recordings, or Ghost In The Shell soundtrack.

On the other hand,  Campfred sounds too revealing and transparent on the Zishan Z1. The sound become harsh, thin, distant, kind of digital. I remember trying the CF with the Walnut at the time I received them and it was even worse. Perhaps also because of the high impedance output.
But here comes the Blue Darth and to my bigger surprise, they actually sound incredible with the Zishan. The powerful, raw and straightforward source benefit from a warm end that can soften the corners and thicken the presentation. Inviting, full, energetic. I was surprised how fun is actually to listen to. Early Ariel Pink, Pure X (rock), MF Doom (hip-hop) or Soichi Terada (house); well all the stuff that makes you move basically, It gives that smiles that the CF+aune and its bittersweet analytical distance fail to recreate. BD doesn't lack of details at all. It does the job very well with complex music, but it is better at rendering the emotions that the musicians tried to convey on a more intuitive level.

*Blue darth paired with the Zishan is that good imo, that it can safely compete on TOTL levels. *Which is only fair considered it's price.

To compare with other brands: I let Seahf f650s go in favor of trades. But I remember it being energetic and unforgiving, it's perhaps the most badass earbuds I ever got and I kind of miss it. They were excellent with the walnut but I didn't used them anymore because my walnut wouldn't charge anymore and I decided to focus on low impedance earbuds. I currently have the Puresound PS100-600 which I find very classic audiophile kind of sound. It's too soft, neutral, and slightly flattering. Too polite to my taste. Perhaps I couldn't drive them to their full potential. They do sounds good on most sources like my gf Iphone SE, Aune m1s, Walnut v2 and Zishan Z1. But not at any point I felt like I found the right setting, the amount of power to make them go wow. They are easy to drive, but hard to make them shine imo.

I wouldn't recommend to use CF and BD on a lo-fi source despite their low impedance. My cheap phone that is Xiaomi Redmi 3s make them sounds just ok, these earbuds are too refined and reveal all the flaws that my humble $130 phone output offer.

*To be short, they are both true all-rounder but, with the right source, each of them excel at a certain mood you want to be in. *

_Blue Darth is amazing and has nothing to be shy of, next to the well-praised Campfred_​

Cheers and thanks for reading~~


----------



## Fabi

Well done @noknok23 

What is the Zishan Z1 sound sig? Analytical?
If so, it would make sense to me that Blue Darth pair better with Z1, and Campfred with M1s.
Thanks! It seems that I don't need BD, but only Campfred


----------



## knudsen

I'd like to make a small red or a blue dot on all my buds - anyone knows what to use for this? Can nail polish be used?


----------



## boblauer

knudsen said:


> I'd like to make a small red or a blue dot on all my buds - anyone knows what to use for this? Can nail polish be used?


That's what I use if the R or L marking is not distinguishable on the bud.


----------



## AkashS04

golov17 said:


> @fairx, read Cygnus thread, same drivers, same sig, same SQ..



Do you think Elecom Earbud (the one you mentioned) is good or what do you think of MYEPADS earbuds?


----------



## Blueshound24

fairx said:


> I tried to search but now head fi in still in mess.
> 
> Question is; is there any in depth review of diy pk2 yet?
> 
> And gosh.. Currency is hetting better on my side but the price of diy pk2 increased again. Is there any discount mentioning this thread or earbud anonymous?





golov17 said:


> @fairx, read Cygnus thread, same drivers, same sig, same SQ..





fairx said:


> I tried to search but now head fi in still in mess.
> 
> Question is; is there any in depth review of diy pk2 yet?
> 
> And gosh.. Currency is hetting better on my side but the price of diy pk2 increased again. Is there any discount mentioning this thread or earbud anonymous?




Anybody have a link for this DIY PK2?


----------



## wskl

Blueshound24 said:


> Anybody have a link for this DIY PK2?



https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...arplugs-Headset-Free/1825606_32801437048.html


----------



## Blueshound24

wskl said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...arplugs-Headset-Free/1825606_32801437048.html



Thanks!


----------



## Blueshound24

knudsen said:


> I'd like to make a small red or a blue dot on all my buds - anyone knows what to use for this? Can nail polish be used?



A member here recommended fine point Sharpie oil-based paint pens to me. It looked good on a set of earbuds I got from him.


----------



## flexy321 (May 4, 2017)

Hey!

Could someone help me? I really want to get 2x of these (Qian39)
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-...Qaulity-Flat-Head-Earbuds-In/32750815405.html

from aliexpress (total is €10,56), with the straight plugs. Unfortunately, they don't accept paypal any longer.

I would be extremely happy if someone could order them for me, I would pay the person €12 on their paypal.
I don't see these earbuds offered anywhere else but aliexpress and I read a lot of good things about them, they are supposed to be better than the monks and many other budget earplugs.

(All you'd need to do is order them for me, I give you my address etc. and as soon as I get ordering confirmation I will send you the money on your paypal)

Thanks! 

PS: I also got me some SHE3800s from FT on the way..I think I am entirely skipping the VE monks. The Qian39 are supposed to be much better.

Edit: Yesterday I got 2x KZ EDR1 which I was VERY excited about. I am not saying they are "bad" per se, but I think I am not an IEM guy, this is why I want to try some buds now. The one I am using right now is a very old Sony 818 which is still great and has an awesome sound. (I actually had to replace a driver two weeks ago since it started crackling, fortunately I had a spare bud lying around so I used the driver and soldered it inside). But want to try out these buds, like the SHE3800 and especially the Qian39.


----------



## flamesofarctica

@flexi321 (would quote you but doesn't work on mobile at the moment), aren't you able to use the AliExpress payment system as an alternative to PayPal?

Btw I can't agree that Qian39 are better than the Monk+, and I think you're missing out if you skip them, personally. None of this stuff is objective, and depends on your source, music & sound preferences however my Monk+ get far more play time than the Qian's ever will.


----------



## flexy321 (May 4, 2017)

I could *possibly* use direct pay via bank transfer (which I hate since we don't have online banking, here in Spain when you're not an "official" resident you only get some weird bank account without it and without a card, I am hating our bank really..anyway...) and paypal would only be a matter of 10 seconds.

But interesting what you say about the Qians, so I guess I would only be buying ONE to see from aliex. And then I would get a monk nevertheless just out of curiosity for comparison. (Which I can get elsewhere)

So whoever would do me the favour..I'd only need one of the Qian39 then...

Edit: I COULD get a Qian from Ebay but there it's $10, so almost twice as much...not cool


----------



## Blueshound24

flexy321 said:


> Hey!
> 
> Could someone help me? I really want to get 2x of these (Qian39)
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-...Qaulity-Flat-Head-Earbuds-In/32750815405.html
> ...



Can't you use a credit card?


----------



## noknok23 (May 4, 2017)

Fabi said:


> What is the Zishan Z1 sound sig? Analytical?


Yes I think so.. still not very familliar with all lexical sound.

-------------------

  BTW does anyone have ty hi-z 400 line? is it hard to drive? I wonder if walnut/zishan would be enough or it needs more? because new seahf 400 just came out on penonaudio, very sexy design and I think I'm big fan of seahf sound signature


----------



## AkashS04

Did any try these: https://goo.gl/2RZoUD 

Looks high quality earbuds. Not sure abt sound though


----------



## flamesofarctica

noknok23 said:


> Yes I think so.. still not very familliar with all lexical sound.
> 
> -------------------
> 
> BTW does anyone have ty hi-z 400 line? is it hard to drive? I wonder if walnut/zishan would be enough or it needs more? because new seahf 400 just came out on penonaudio, very sexy design and I think I'm big fan of seahf sound signature



I have no idea if quote will work am on phone so switched to desktop mode. TY HP400S sounds fantastic through Walnut so I think both would drive Seahf version fine


----------



## noknok23

flamesofarctica said:


> I have no idea if quote will work am on phone so switched to desktop mode. TY HP400S sounds fantastic through Walnut so I think both would drive Seahf version fine


thank you!!


----------



## ctaxxxx (May 4, 2017)

Got my Diomnes Lv.2 today! These things are insane! The cable is the thickest I've seen too lol.

Been comparing these to my other buds (with thin foams). These are basically an upgrade from my Shozy BK's. A tiny less bright, but now with meatier bass and a *much deeper soundstage*. The only thing the Shozy's do better is imaging (I don't think any earbuds do at the moment). These are sitting at my #2 spot, for now... (Nothing beats that addicting CampFred bass!)

I swear, every time I get a new TOTL earbud, I keep wondering why I buy new headphones. I really want a CAX Black now (or whatever is coming next).

Edit: Also updated my comparison list. Added a personal top 5 at the bottom as well.


----------



## christionk

christionk said:


> Hello guys, im new here ^_^
> 
> Anyone here using Fiio X5III + YINMAN 600 Ohm combo ?
> i wonder what kind of portable amp do you guys use ?
> ...



anyone here using Yinman 600 ohm ? = )


----------



## Saoshyant

christionk said:


> anyone here using Yinman 600 ohm ? = )



My initial impressions are it's probably going to turn out to be too analytical for my taste.  Campfred has great detail but also has a fun sound, where this one's not quite so.  Once I'm back from my trip I'll really give it a listen and get a better idea what it's about.


----------



## Wyville

Does anyone know a high-end earbud that is readily available in the UK? I would like to find a really good earbud with a warm, detailed signature and smooth treble, but earbuds appear to exist in a world of their own and I haven't a clue. The best I have been able to find so far is the 1More e1008.

Thanks!


----------



## Fabi

Wyville said:


> Does anyone know a high-end earbud that is readily available in the UK? I would like to find a really good earbud with a warm, detailed signature and smooth treble, but earbuds appear to exist in a world of their own and I haven't a clue. The best I have been able to find so far is the 1More e1008.
> 
> Thanks!


Only Monk+ are currently available on Amazon UK shipped by VE Clan UK
You'll have to check later their website when they have stock of Asura 2.0 and Zen 2.0.
http://veclanuk.wixsite.com/landing

Btw, your pair of 1More E1008 seem to sound very good already.


----------



## ld100

golov17 said:


> David, this should be compared with Shozy Cygnus and BK, and not with Qians ..



Are they that good? Really?


----------



## czy6412

Currently have the first generation K's 500Ohm and I am wondering which earbuds can be better in terms of classical music.


----------



## Wyville

Fabi said:


> Only Monk+ are currently available on Amazon UK shipped by VE Clan UK
> You'll have to check later their website when they have stock of Asura 2.0 and Zen 2.0.
> http://veclanuk.wixsite.com/landing
> 
> Btw, your pair of 1More E1008 seem to sound very good already.


Thanks for pointing those out! I missed them completely. 

I don't have the 1More yet, but might need some earbuds to allow me to listen to music while my ears are recovering. At the moment I can't use any of my in-ears and I don't have headphones, so earbuds might be an affordable way to still enjoy music. If the Monk+ are as good as I read, then those will probably be ideal considering how cheap they are.


----------



## noknok23

mmhm, after **** on the puresoud ps100-600 for so long, I start to really like them... damn it x_x

just got the  seahf awk f150c and the white seahf 32 (2016)
seahf 150 needs lot of burn in, . Sounds fairly loud on phone at max volume with nice bass but benefit from more power, doesn't need as much power as asura by far. V shaped, sounds very exciting with great bass extension and exciting high. Drawback is it's tiring very quickly. Sharp sound, its great with aggressive music.

Seahf 32 haven't listening for too long yet but i really like what i have so far, clear sound with nice extension. I'm not sure if I read it right, some say it's identical to ty hiz 32, correct? so far I like them.


----------



## flamesofarctica

noknok23 said:


> mmhm, after ****ting on the puresoud ps100-600 for so long, I start to really like them... damn it x_x
> 
> just got the  seahf awk f150c and the white seahf 32 (2016)
> seahf 150 needs lot of burn in, . Sounds fairly loud on phone at max volume with nice bass but benefit from more power, doesn't need as much power as asura by far. V shaped, sounds very exciting with great bass extension and exciting high. Drawback is it's tiring very quickly. Sharp sound, its great with aggressive music.
> ...



I found the Seahf 32 to be a far nicer listen than the TY variant, it doesn't seem to have the upper mids harshness so not identical IMO, it seems to be tuned differently.


----------



## ld100

Any info on DIY PK2? I tried to search and nothing coming up...


----------



## Saoshyant

I should hopefully be able to comment on diy PK2 when I'm back from my trip.


----------



## flamesofarctica

ld100 said:


> Any info on DIY PK2? I tried to search and nothing coming up...



Assuming you mean the same one sold by NiceHCK, initial impressions from me are its quite (but not too) bright, relatively detailed, seems a nice listen, think it's going to prove a good buy. Nice cable as well. Extremely comfortable fit for me. Will listen further, it arrived same time as the Vido (wow) and on the same day as a DAP which is giving me problems, so not much chance so far for an extended play.


----------



## base08

Is this hck diy pk2 just a recable from the docomo sold on taobao?


----------



## noknok23

Who had the chance to listen to the diy blur? Are they hard to drive? They seems very nice.


----------



## Blackground

Shozy BK is seriously an end game ear bud..


That is all


----------



## Blackground

I think I just realized why I love ear buds.. they have this ability to sound intimate and spacious/open/out of head all at the same time. IEMs for me, always have this inherent in your head sound while they may still be spacious they create this seal that always seemed to keep things "in your head". And on the other hand there are over ears, which are the complete opposite except they allow too much of the external noise in. I find ear buds to be a happy medium, if you will. They isolate well while still sounding open and "out of head".

Between the Zen 2.0, hp650, and Bk, I think the BK comes the closest to an over ear listening experience. I am thoroughly impressed, not to mention build quality.  The shell is of much higher quality than I was expecting.


----------



## ClieOS

If you think single ended BK is already seriously good, wait till you have the chance to listen to a balanced BK.


----------



## Wyville

Blackground said:


> I think I just realized why I love ear buds.. they have this ability to sound intimate and spacious/open/out of head all at the same time. IEMs for me, always have this inherent in your head sound while they may still be spacious they create this seal that always seemed to keep things "in your head". And on the other hand there are over ears, which are the complete opposite except they allow too much of the external noise in. I find ear buds to be a happy medium, if you will. They isolate well while still sounding open and "out of head".
> 
> Between the Zen 2.0, hp650, and Bk, I think the BK comes the closest to an over ear listening experience. I am thoroughly impressed, not to mention build quality.  The shell is of much higher quality than I was expecting.


Interesting thoughts. I have always avoided both earbuds and headphones because I prefer the intimate and isolated experience IEMs give me, but lately I have been having serious issues with my ears as a result of pressure caused by my CIEMs. The past few days I have had to rely on really poor quality earbuds to allow my ears to recover and they did make me think about headphones and earbuds again. I still don't know if I would like big over-ear headphones, but I was surprised that despite the poor sound quality, I did kinda liked the earbuds. I'm now looking to try the Monk+ while I will probably be sending my CIEMs off to be reshelled to universals.


ClieOS said:


> If you think single ended BK is already seriously good, wait till you have the chance to listen to a balanced BK.


If the Monk+ work well enough I will be curious to try a balanced Zen 2.0. It would be ideal if those could offer a reasonable alternative to open-back headphones.


----------



## Blackground (May 7, 2017)

ClieOS said:


> If you think single ended BK is already seriously good, wait till you have the chance to listen to a balanced BK.



Luckily, I went for the balanced right off the bat and I'm glad I did. I wasn't about to make the same mistake I made when I purchased the zen 2.0 lol. The separation and imaging is outstanding.

I think I can finally say I feel content with these few select ears buds I have collected.


----------



## Blackground

Wyville said:


> Interesting thoughts. I have always avoided both earbuds and headphones because I prefer the intimate and isolated experience IEMs give me, but lately I have been having serious issues with my ears as a result of pressure caused by my CIEMs. The past few days I have had to rely on really poor quality earbuds to allow my ears to recover and they did make me think about headphones and earbuds again. I still don't know if I would like big over-ear headphones, but I was surprised that despite the poor sound quality, I did kinda liked the earbuds. I'm now looking to try the Monk+ while I will probably be sending my CIEMs off to be reshelled to universals.
> 
> If the Monk+ work well enough I will be curious to try a balanced Zen 2.0. It would be ideal if those could offer a reasonable alternative to open-back headphones.



That is one reason I have gravitated towards earbuds, plus my ear canals are childlike lol. I think over time the isolation of iems can do some damage to the ear drum if not properly controlled. I have refused to venture into customs until I can afford ones with adel technology. As for using ear buds to recover, that is a great idea I would personally only listen at low volumes until I felt my hearing was normal again, or use speakers. To be completely honest I was initially impressed by the zen 2.0 but over time I started noticing it's cons (which may be less noticeable balanced?). I have been debating pulling the trigger on a balanced pair of monks, as I can only imagine an improved experience for $30. That may be an option for a starting point, that way your kinda getting the best of both worlds and not having to drop totl monies lol. 

Has anyone tried the monks balanced?


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Dang it... now I wanna try the Shozy BK Balanced!


----------



## flexy321

Currently I am using buds/plugs etc. mostly for VR, and I understand that some say they love how IEMs give "more immersion"...but I really can't stand the "feeling" of IEMs and actually love the openness of buds much better. The built-in headphones on the Oculus Rift (which unfortunately broke for me), by the way, are "very open" but they have an outstanding, very good sound with awesome bass (possibly best headphones I ever heard, yet sure I am no "audiophile" by a long-shot), and this is why I now also look into earbuds like the Monks. It's *possible* that the best one for my purposes would be the Koss KSC75, but then I like buds for their smaller size ..and the Koss is already "too expensive" for me seeing that my cats eat earbuds and that this stuff usually doesn't last here. Will see, have some monks coming now.


----------



## Wyville

Blackground said:


> That is one reason I have gravitated towards earbuds, plus my ear canals are childlike lol. I think over time the isolation of iems can do some damage to the ear drum if not properly controlled. I have refused to venture into customs until I can afford ones with adel technology. As for using ear buds to recover, that is a great idea I would personally only listen at low volumes until I felt my hearing was normal again, or use speakers. To be completely honest I was initially impressed by the zen 2.0 but over time I started noticing it's cons (which may be less noticeable balanced?). I have been debating pulling the trigger on a balanced pair of monks, as I can only imagine an improved experience for $30. That may be an option for a starting point, that way your kinda getting the best of both worlds and not having to drop totl monies lol.


I am considering ADEL as well. The Monk+ should come in a couple of days and I will try those out, but I am mostly worried about poor isolation. I get distracted very easily and so need to have a certain level of isolation to keep me focused during my work. That is why I gravitated towards CIEMs in the first place. If earbuds do not reduce distraction, then I will consider ADEL IEMs. 

I didn't even know there was a balanced Monk+. Would have done that if they had it, but so far only the regular Monk+ was available here in the UK. Should the Monk+ work well, then I will see what I would like to try next. Fortunately for me earbuds like the Zen 2.0 are relatively affordable, especially when considering that the alternative would be something from Empire Ears. It all depends on the sound and whether or not I like using them alongside my Ei.3.


----------



## golov17

Ну .. kc08 прибыл для сравнения с моим kc08t ..


----------



## golov17

ClieOS said:


> Just want to shout out for Ostry KC08 as it doesn't seem to get much attention after release. I brought it to CanJam Singapore and let a couple of local Head-fier tried it out and the feedback are all very positive. Mind of that some of them are MX985 and Zen owner.


----------



## AkashS04

ctaxxxx said:


> Got my Diomnes Lv.2 today! These things are insane! The cable is the thickest I've seen too lol.
> 
> Been comparing these to my other buds (with thin foams). These are basically an upgrade from my Shozy BK's. A tiny less bright, but now with meatier bass and a *much deeper soundstage*. The only thing the Shozy's do better is imaging (I don't think any earbuds do at the moment). These are sitting at my #2 spot, for now... (Nothing beats that addicting CampFred bass!)
> 
> ...



Can you pls share the link to Diomnes Lv.2 Earbuds? Would like to have a look.


----------



## ctaxxxx (May 8, 2017)

AkashS04 said:


> Can you pls share the link to Diomnes Lv.2 Earbuds? Would like to have a look.


There is no link. They're sold out. I was lucky they even had one more in stock.

*Edit: *Some updated impressions after 3 days of burning in. So far, these have smoothed out a little and bass even fuller (even with the thin foams). Still great detailed sound. This sound is what I wanted out of the Mojitos. These might actually become my number 1 favorite.


----------



## AkashS04

ctaxxxx said:


> There is no link. They're sold out. I was lucky they even had one more in stock.
> 
> *Edit: *Some updated impressions after 3 days of burning in. So far, these have smoothed out a little and bass even fuller (even with the thin foams). Still great detailed sound. This sound is what I wanted out of the Mojitos. These might actually become my number 1 favorite.


Link to Sold Out page is fine too. I just want to have a look. Or any image of the bud.


----------



## ctaxxxx

AkashS04 said:


> Link to Sold Out page is fine too. I just want to have a look. Or any image of the bud.



Facebook: LINK
Store Page (for Lv1 only): LINK
Google Image Search: LINK

I've never used their store before. Usually I just contact them directly. I'm not sure if they had a page for the Lv2 version. In the google image search link, its the one with the thick, braided, and white cable.


----------



## Danneq (May 8, 2017)

AkashS04 said:


> Can you pls share the link to Diomnes Lv.2 Earbuds? Would like to have a look.




Diomnes is actually based on the original Monk earbuds (the one before Monk+). If you can find a pair of original Monk you can send them to the guys at ABnormal Labs in Indonesia and they can turn the humble Monk into a monster Diomnes Lv2. Mind you, they are expensive. I paid something like $180 without shipping for my pair. But considering the sound they are worth it. I say they are very close to CAX black in technical capability. Actually the soundstage is bigger on my Diomnes LV2 than on my CAX black. I find CAX black to be more neutral sounding, so I put those on my no 1 spot and Diomnes Lv2 at no 2.

Still, somehow I just love the sound of CampFred so despite Diomnes Lv2 and CAX black being technically more capable, I usually pick CampFred (it's otherwise no 3 on my top list). Right now I am getting acquainted to my new pair of Shozy Stardust. Those are really really great as well!

(Mind you, all of these earbuds cost over $150 and are very limited in numbers made. But considering how good they sound and the fact that IEMs can cost 4-5 times that price, I think they are worth it).


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Oooh. What is a CAX Black!? I like the sound of those!


----------



## ClieOS

Talking about limited number and expensive prize tag - not sure if anyone already mention this or not, but there is a limited edition Shozy Cygnus released in China for a bit over $200 and said to be even better than BK / StarDust. There will only be 100 pairs for 3.5mm single ended and 99 pair balanced (either 2.5mm A&K， 4.4mm Sony or 3.5mm Hifiman) in total.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

@ClieOS  I have a pair of VE Zen 2.0 Black Edition (4 pin XLR termination) on their way to me, do these other earbuds sound better than those as well?


----------



## Danneq (May 8, 2017)

Diomnes Lv2 with eidolic plug:


----------



## AkashS04

Danneq said:


> Diomnes is actually based on the original Monk earbuds (the one before Monk+). If you can find a pair of original Monk you can send them to the guys at ABnormal Labs in Indonesia and they can turn the humble Monk into a monster Diomnes Lv2. Mind you, they are expensive. I paid something like $180 without shipping for my pair. But considering the sound they are worth it. I say they are very close to CAX black in technical capability. Actually the soundstage is bigger on my Diomnes LV2 than on my CAX black. I find CAX black to be more neutral sounding, so I put those on my no 1 spot and Diomnes Lv2 at no 2.
> 
> Still, somehow I just love the sound of CampFred so despite Diomnes Lv2 and CAX black being technically more capable, I usually pick CampFred (it's otherwise no 3 on my top list). Right now I am getting acquainted to my new pair of Shozy Stardust. Those are really really great as well!
> 
> (Mind you, all of these earbuds cost over $150 and are very limited in numbers made. But considering how good they sound and the fact that IEMs can cost 4-5 times that price, I think they are worth it).


If they cost $150 (or $180), I guess they are very well beyond my reach. I cannot buy them. Too expensive. I am going to order Vido with Mic, KST-T6 (https://goo.gl/oQPU4L) and Elecom BassX (http://www.ebay.com/itm/252826924150). Hope KST and Elecom are good ones because I have few reviewes or input about Vido but none for other two. Any idea?


----------



## Danneq

AkashS04 said:


> If they cost $150 (or $180), I guess they are very well beyond my reach. I cannot buy them. Too expensive. I am going to order Vido with Mic, KST-T6 (https://goo.gl/oQPU4L) and Elecom BassX (http://www.ebay.com/itm/252826924150). Hope KST and Elecom are good ones because I have few reviewes or input about Vido but none for other two. Any idea?



I have written it before, but the good thing about TOTL earbuds is that you can get an amazing almost headphone like sound for relatively little money. My TOTL earbuds (CAX black, Diomnes Lv2, CampFred, Shozy Stardust & Blox TM7) all fairly easily beat my $300 Audio Technica ES10 headphones at everything except bass impact. I feel no need for headphones and I have never been interested in IEMs.

Anyway, today's budget earbuds are really good, especially considering the price, compared to budget earbuds from 5 or 10 years ago.


----------



## Ira Delphic

My NICEHCK DIY PK2 Earbud (white) arrived this morning. Very nice packaging, accessories and look great for around $21!
Quick listening test - good, BUT need to compare to my budget and TOTL earbuds.

https://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/0.html?orderId=83562633993062&productId=32801437048


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Ira Delphic said:


> My NICEHCK DIY PK2 Earbud (white) arrived this morning. Very nice packaging, accessories and look great for around $21!
> Quick listening test - good, BUT need to compare to my budget and TOTL earbuds.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/0.html?orderId=83562633993062&productId=32801437048



Please compare. They're too bright for me, but they sound really good.

PS: Your link doesn't seem to work.


----------



## ctaxxxx

ClieOS said:


> Talking about limited number and expensive prize tag - not sure if anyone already mention this or not, but there is a limited edition Shozy Cygnus released in China for a bit over $200 and said to be even better than BK / StarDust. There will only be 100 pairs for 3.5mm single ended and 99 pair balanced (either 2.5mm A&K， 4.4mm Sony or 3.5mm Hifiman) in total.



Do you... Have a link?...





Danneq said:


> I say they are very close to CAX black in technical capability. Actually the soundstage is bigger on my Diomnes LV2 than on my CAX black. I find CAX black to be more neutral sounding, so I put those on my no 1 spot and Diomnes Lv2 at no 2.
> 
> (Mind you, all of these earbuds cost over $150 and are very limited in numbers made. But considering how good they sound and the fact that IEMs can cost 4-5 times that price, I think they are worth it).



It's insane how large the soundstage is. Nothing I would imagine an earbud being capable of. It has width and immense depth. 

I agree they are worth it. I'm selling $500+ headphones because I prefer the CampFred's signature over those. TOTL buds are serious competition. High-end IEMs and headphones have huge diminishing value in my experience. The only noticeable jump in quality that TOTL earbuds can't seem to reach is around $1K (not counting used aftermarket prices - for example, a used HE-560 or LCD 2 at $600). But that price point is out of reach for a lot of consumers.


----------



## tinkertailor

Hey, I'm a fan of FAAEAL. And finally I can 100% confirm it is FAAEAL because they have an ali express store now!

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/2178200

pretty awesome, but the options and range of prices is hard to wrap my head around.


----------



## golov17

ClieOS said:


> Talking about limited number and expensive prize tag - not sure if anyone already mention this or not, but there is a limited edition Shozy Cygnus released in China for a bit over $200 and said to be even better than BK / StarDust.


Interesting...


----------



## golov17

tinkertailor said:


> Hey, I'm a fan of FAAEAL. And finally I can 100% confirm it is FAAEAL because they have an ali express store now!
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/2178200
> 
> pretty awesome, but the options and range of prices is hard to wrap my head around.


Good


----------



## ClieOS

WayTooCrazy said:


> @ClieOS  I have a pair of VE Zen 2.0 Black Edition (4 pin XLR termination) on their way to me, do these other earbuds sound better than those as well?



I listened to @rudi0504 Zen 2.0 Black during CanJam Singapore a few months ago - if it is driven by a good balanced amp, I'll say it is about the same level as any ToTL earbuds, though I won't say it is better.



ctaxxxx said:


> Do you... Have a link?...



You will need to be able to order from Taobao to get one, but here it is: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=549824015812
Also, mind you that only a few pair can be built each day and there is a long waiting list.


----------



## luedriver

looking at diy pk2 saw they have a "black version 1" at first glance it looks like it has an extension cable, but then noticed it has 4 rings instead of 3, no mention of mic, it must be balanced with an adapter/extension for normal 3.5mm jack, or that is what I understand

also more of a stretch is the thought that the black version has more in common with shozy black, as in they might have the same driver, like the white version might have the same driver as cygnus

who knows if its true


----------



## BloodyPenguin (May 9, 2017)

My new phone, the *LG V20* & *Wong Kuan Wae's (300Ω) Blur 魔女:*

Wanting to test out if the "Quad DACs" were some sort of marketing gimmick on the LG V20, I quickly loaded up some of my favorite FLAC files and took it for a spin. Without hesitation I reached first for Wong Kuan Wae's Blur 魔女. Once the music started playing, the look on my face must have been priceless, I was COMPLETELY BLOWN AWAY! These two paired together is one of the most amazing experiences of my life. The HUGE soundstage and absolutely crystal clear playback is beyond words.

I can't tell you how real the "Hi-Fi" mode on the LG V20 truly is, I just know it SINGS when used with the Blur 魔女. Wong Kuan Wae tuned this earbud to have such perfect, slightly forward mids, along with the best detailed highs I have ever heard. I HIGHLY recommend picking up one of the Blur versions for those looking for a one of a kind sound.








 

--


----------



## golov17

Hey guys, Boarseman mx98 absolutely steal for the price that now on Ali, I recommend sincerely!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

@golov17 Can you please compare the MX98 vs the MX98S?

--


----------



## golov17 (May 9, 2017)

> Можете ли вы сравнить MX98 В.С. MX98S? [/ QUOTE]
> mx98s теплые и мягкие, mx98 быстро и чисто ..


----------



## noknok23

luedriver said:


> looking at diy pk2 saw they have a "black version 1" at first glance it looks like it has an extension cable, but then noticed it has 4 rings instead of 3, no mention of mic, it must be balanced with an adapter/extension for normal 3.5mm jack, or that is what I understand
> 
> also more of a stretch is the thought that the black version has more in common with shozy black, as in they might have the same driver, like the white version might have the same driver as cygnus
> 
> who knows if its true


----------



## golov17

Del


----------



## barbazz

tinkertailor said:


> Hey, I'm a fan of FAAEAL. And finally I can 100% confirm it is FAAEAL because they have an ali express store now!



One of the biggest mysteries of the Universe finally solved  I'm tempted to buy one as I don't have any Faaeal in my collection. Any suggestions?


----------



## WayTooCrazy

ClieOS said:


> I listened to @rudi0504 Zen 2.0 Black during CanJam Singapore a few months ago - if it is driven by a good balanced amp, I'll say it is about the same level as any ToTL earbuds, though I won't say it is better.



What would sound similar, but for a much more reasonable cost? Seems like AliExpress is the only way to go, but I'd buy through Penon only, as they accept PayPal and my PayPal Credit Card.


----------



## ozkan (May 9, 2017)

New toys


----------



## golov17

Do you have kc08t? 100 bucks

Ostry kc08t


----------



## Ira Delphic

ctaxxxx said:


> Do you... Have a link?...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But also consider that earbuds are much more delicate than headphones, over ear or on ear. There are many reports of earbuds going bad. Headphones are much more robust.


----------



## tinkertailor (May 9, 2017)

The fragility of earbuds is why I stick to budget...a pair blows out on me every few months


----------



## Danneq

Ira Delphic said:


> But also consider that earbuds are much more delicate than headphones, over ear or on ear. There are many reports of earbuds going bad. Headphones are much more robust.



I have only had 2 pairs of earbuds break in the last 9-10 years:

1. The wire on a pair of Sennheiser MX980 got caught when I was passing through a door so one ear died. I could have changed cable, but they were still under warranty so I got the money back and bought a cheaper pair from Germany

2. One driver on one of my Sony MDR-E484 suddenly died when I was out and about a few years ago. I suppose it was a combination of it being old and also that those drivers are a bit sensitive. After that I stopped using vintage earbuds outside.

I do treat my earbuds like babies so that is probably why I have only lost 2 pairs in so many years...


----------



## AkashS04

Danneq said:


> I have only had 2 pairs of earbuds break in the last 9-10 years:
> 
> 1. The wire on a pair of Sennheiser MX980 got caught when I was passing through a door so one ear died. I could have changed cable, but they were still under warranty so I got the money back and bought a cheaper pair from Germany
> 
> ...


Ho is  Sennheiser MX980? I heard a lot about them that they are good but in what sense? Are the neutral sounding buds  or one with good bass and excellent smooth sound/


----------



## Danneq

AkashS04 said:


> Ho is  Sennheiser MX980? I heard a lot about them that they are good but in what sense? Are the neutral sounding buds  or one with good bass and excellent smooth sound/



I find them to be neutral and excellent. Some might find them a bit too neutral and slightly boring, but I find that they are quite transparent sounding. Diomnes Lv2 has got a slightly similar sound but more "fun" and I do find that I prefer Diomnes...


----------



## ATi7500

tinkertailor said:


> Hey, I'm a fan of FAAEAL. And finally I can 100% confirm it is FAAEAL because they have an ali express store now!
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/2178200
> 
> pretty awesome, but the options and range of prices is hard to wrap my head around.



So yeah, what's the difference between the "old" and the "new" 32Ohm?


----------



## ctaxxxx

Ira Delphic said:


> But also consider that earbuds are much more delicate than headphones, over ear or on ear. There are many reports of earbuds going bad. Headphones are much more robust.


I don't know. After Audeze, I think headphones (especially planars) are just as fragile. As for IEMs, I paid $400 for Grado GR10e IEM. That thing went to warranty repair 3 TIMES in one year. Ridiculous... I always take good care of my stuff too.


----------



## 93EXCivic

ctaxxxx said:


> I don't know. After Audeze, I think headphones (especially planars) are just as fragile.



I think Audeze just has crap build quality. I really don't think it has any thing to do with them being planars.


----------



## ctaxxxx

93EXCivic said:


> I think Audeze just has crap build quality. I really don't think it has any thing to do with them being planars.


Probably. I just heard that Planars are more fragile, but that may be due to Audeze's bad QA rep.


----------



## 93EXCivic

So I think I am done with budget earbuds ($10 or less) I have found two budget ones that I can live with for now after trying out the Qain39, Monk +, T-Music V1, SHE3800, Ty Hi-Z 32, T-Music V2 and Yinmann 64 ohm. But I am not completely happy with the two favorites, T-Music V2 and Yinmann 64 ohm. The T-Music V2 has excellent clarity and it is very precise but it is quite cold. The Yinmann 64 ohm is more musical then the V2 but it lacks the clarity and control of the V2. 

I have a NiceHCK PK2 and Yinmann 150ohm on the way then I am going to save for some TOTL buds. I am thinking Shozy BK, Rose Maysa and QFreds.


----------



## Ira Delphic

Ira Delphic said:


> My NICEHCK DIY PK2 Earbud (white) arrived this morning. Very nice packaging, accessories and look great for around $21!
> Quick listening test - good, BUT need to compare to my budget and TOTL earbuds.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/0.html?orderId=83562633993062&productId=32801437048



Sorry the above link doesn't work. They have an additional version - black earbud shell/white braided cable. And price for the black shell version is $27.38, up from $21.90 for the white shell version which is out of stock as of this posting. There's also a third, black cable version. I suggest going to AliExpress and searching for "NICEHCK DIY PK2 Earbud"

I did A<->B listening test with a y splittler and LG V10. The popular Qian25 vs. Nicehck DIY PK2. 

-Qian25 has more bass, but the DIY PK2 more refined, tighter and more accurate bass.
-DIY PK2 more extensive soundstage
-DIY PK2 better resolution, and also brighter

Build quality and accessories - big win there for he DIY PK2. I don't want to overhype this - NICEHCK did a fine job. You'll need well produced music to notice a significant difference between the two. The Qian25 is still a damn good earbud for the price.


----------



## Blueshound24 (May 9, 2017)

BloodyPenguin said:


> My new phone, the *LG V20* & *Wong Kuan Wae's (300Ω) Blur 魔女:*
> 
> Wanting to test out if the "Quad DACs" were some sort of marketing gimmick on the LG V20, I quickly loaded up some of my favorite FLAC files and took it for a spin. Without hesitation I reached first for Wong Kuan Wae's Blur 魔女. Once the music started playing, the look on my face must have been priceless, I was COMPLETELY BLOWN AWAY! These two paired together is one of the most amazing experiences of my life. The HUGE soundstage and absolutely crystal clear playback is beyond words.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your impressions of the LG 20, I have been seriously considering it for my next phone.
Do you have a purchase link to the Blur?


----------



## ForceMajeure

Anyone tried the K's earphone from HCK?
500ohm buds, 114 feedbacks already.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...32751502658.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.sFxsQl


----------



## golov17

This is strange, but both models have an impedance of 43 ohm, although kc08t has the best expansion on both edges of the range. Question: where to find the 32 ohm version ??


----------



## upsguys88

BloodyPenguin said:


> My new phone, the *LG V20* & *Wong Kuan Wae's (300Ω) Blur 魔女:*
> 
> Wanting to test out if the "Quad DACs" were some sort of marketing gimmick on the LG V20, I quickly loaded up some of my favorite FLAC files and took it for a spin. Without hesitation I reached first for Wong Kuan Wae's Blur 魔女. Once the music started playing, the look on my face must have been priceless, I was COMPLETELY BLOWN AWAY! These two paired together is one of the most amazing experiences of my life. The HUGE soundstage and absolutely crystal clear playback is beyond words.
> 
> ...



How much are these earbuds, also where did you find that leather case?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Blueshound24 said:


> Do you have a purchase link to the Blur?





upsguys88 said:


> How much are these earbuds, also where did you find that leather case?



Contact* Wong Kuan Wae *on Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/wkuanwae 

--


----------



## Blueshound24

BloodyPenguin said:


> Contact* Wong Kuan Wae *on Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/wkuanwae
> 
> --



Thanks. What is the price of the Blur?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Blueshound24 said:


> Thanks. What is the price of the Blur?



About $100 USD.  

Clearest sound you will hear anywhere for that price.  
--


----------



## noknok23

@BloodyPenguin could you compare quickly blur with tyz650 and PS600?


----------



## tinkertailor

barbazz said:


> One of the biggest mysteries of the Universe finally solved  I'm tempted to buy one as I don't have any Faaeal in my collection. Any suggestions?


I personally enjoy this 32ohm ...I am not sure if it is the old or new driver (see below) For a while it was my top budget beating yuins, qians, monks, k's in the all rounder budget...also amazing cable. And its still awesome, but tbh the emx500 beats it for me mostly cuz bass and crispness.I asked FAAEAL about the difference of their buds, here is the response I received:
_
Hi my friend, thanks for your kindly inquiry, please kindly note all the driver of 32ohms old version and the new version is different, and the outstanding of tuning for old version is on the analysis, the new version is in the bass. 
For the 64ohms, the driver is  the same, but the material of cable is not the same, like silver line upgrade version: the silver line version is  a better upgrade for middle,  treble ._


----------



## ozkan

This Vido is so amazing that I ordered another 3 pcs.  Oh dat bass is so mesmerizing!


----------



## upsguys88

BloodyPenguin said:


> Contact* Wong Kuan Wae *on Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/wkuanwae
> 
> --


Are they worth their price?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

upsguys88 said:


> Are they worth their price?



100% Yes if you want the ultimate in clarity.  Though not for bass lovers.

--


----------



## weedophile

Danneq said:


> I have only had 2 pairs of earbuds break in the last 9-10 years:
> 
> 1. The wire on a pair of Sennheiser MX980 got caught when I was passing through a door so one ear died. I could have changed cable, but they were still under warranty so I got the money back and bought a cheaper pair from Germany
> 
> ...



Oh man i also have like 2 damaged earbuds but in only half a year. That was caused by my insufficiency in skills when changing the cables and broke the Sony E808+ and stock Benjie buds (till today i still regret this).

I dont treat my buds like babies but i nv throw them ard and abuse them except for the ones i slp with lol. They need to withstand my weight as i usually end up slping over them ahahaha


----------



## AkashS04

ozkan said:


> This Vido is so amazing that I ordered another 3 pcs.  Oh dat bass is so mesmerizing!


I ordered one yesterday. Hope that they will not break in 1 month or so. If that happens, I guess this will be my last order from AliExpress.


----------



## Danneq

AkashS04 said:


> I am not fool who will continue to spend money on earbuds while knowing that they won't last more than 2-3 months.


They usually last longer if you treat them with care. A good rule is - budget stuff for listening when outside and high end earbuds for when you listen more concentrated at home...


----------



## Wyville

Fabi said:


> Only Monk+ are currently available on Amazon UK shipped by VE Clan UK
> You'll have to check later their website when they have stock of Asura 2.0 and Zen 2.0.
> http://veclanuk.wixsite.com/landing


Thanks again for the tip! They just came in:

 

My first impression? Impressed! I had not expected earbuds less than £9 to sound this... pleasant, I think is the best word. It is such a nice smooth and easy signature. They definitely make me think about possibly getting higher end balanced earbuds such as the Zen 2.0 when they become more readily available in the UK.


----------



## KLgamers (May 10, 2017)

Listening to Metallica album : "Hardwired" with TY Hi-Z Hp150, very enjoyable, full & dynamic SQ right now. Its ticked all the boxes base on my expectations on listening to Heavy metal genre.

Tested with :-
Zishan Z1 + iBasso Portatube
Zishan Z1 + walnut v2 amp mode
Hifiman Hm-650 with built in power amp II card
Hifiman Hm-650 + Fiio E12

The more quality source + power feed added, Ty Hp150 perform very well thru FR spectrum. Surprisingly it sound better compare to OOTB when I first received it which is harsh treble but not after 150hrs.. It sound energetic without being sibilant anymore..

It's really hard to find good earbuds (compare to IEM) to fit my requirements for Heavy metal music.. Of course i have others lower impedance earbuds which I also enjoy thru most of the genre, but none satisfied me on listening to Heavy metal and Progressive Rock like Ty Hi-Z Hp150 (so far). Its priced right at below US20..

Cheers and enjoy your music.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Has anyone every tried moving the "Monk +" drivers into another housing? I've seen Aluminum "repair" housings for earbuds and have been wondering how that would change the sound signature if I basically re-shelled the Monks + and re-cabled them. Would be an interesting experiment, but if someone else has done it and found that it was not worth the wait/expense... then I won't repeat the mistake.


----------



## AkashS04

Is it good to buy Earbud with 9 Ohms impedence? What are the pros/cons?


----------



## AkashS04

_Frequency Response Range: *8-25000Hz*
Resistance: *9Ω*
Sensitivity: *123dB*_

What do you people think of this?


----------



## Danneq

Where did you find that?


----------



## AkashS04

Danneq said:


> Where did you find that?



AliExpress. They are similar looking earbuds which I ordered and used earlier. The difference is that the one which I bought had 32 Ohms impedence and 20-20k range. And also 108db sensitivity.


----------



## AxelCloris

I've removed several posts because they were venturing off topic into personal territory. Please avoid getting personal with your posts.


----------



## boblauer

AkashS04 said:


> _Frequency Response Range: *8-25000Hz*
> Resistance: *9Ω*
> Sensitivity: *123dB*_
> 
> What do you people think of this?


Is some of that Freq response range even audible to the human ear? Finding it hard to believe without knowing the maker??


----------



## noknok23

Yeah I wonder too, when I saw earbuds going beyond the 20/20khz spectrum, what's the point? Perhaps it gives more control towards the end.


----------



## Danneq

Check out the specs of ATH CM7TI...


----------



## AkashS04

boblauer said:


> Is some of that Freq response range even audible to the human ear? Finding it hard to believe without knowing the maker??


Below 20 Hz is not audible but can be felt. So as per my understanding, low freq will give more boomy sound to the earbud.


----------



## AkashS04

Does anyone know if it exits or have any link to *Sony E808+ with Mic*?


----------



## Saoshyant

Those with large earbud collections, how are you storing them?  I really need to come up with a better method, something that can handle at least 60 or so earbuds.


----------



## jant71

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000LDH3J...t=&hvlocphy=9004416&hvtargid=pla-195125441595


----------



## Saoshyant

jant71 said:


> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000LDH3J...t=&hvlocphy=9004416&hvtargid=pla-195125441595



Helpful like always, thank you sir.  It'll clear up a ton of earphone cases, but that won't be difficult to store for now.


----------



## DBaldock9

Saoshyant said:


> Those with large earbud collections, how are you storing them?  I really need to come up with a better method, something that can handle at least 60 or so earbuds.


----------



## rkw

Saoshyant said:


> Those with large earbud collections, how are you storing them?  I really need to come up with a better method, something that can handle at least 60 or so earbuds.


No need for a better method 
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1330657113695431&set=pcb.1819526888308837


----------



## kurtextrem

New earbud from TY Hi-Z and they're now using a different shell: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=413352862370144&id=100010863017577


----------



## Ira Delphic

kurtextrem said:


> New earbud from TY Hi-Z and they're now using a different shell: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=413352862370144&id=100010863017577



Budget bud... but who knows may be special.


----------



## AkashS04

Saoshyant said:


> Those with large earbud collections, how are you storing them?  I really need to come up with a better method, something that can handle at least 60 or so earbuds.


Store on the Cloud.


----------



## AkashS04

golov17 said:


> Interesting...



Ordered Elecom Earbuds on your recommendation  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/252826924150

They are expected to arrive between 27 May to 9th June. Let's see.


----------



## tinkertailor (May 11, 2017)

ATi7500 said:


> So yeah, what's the difference between the "old" and the "new" 32Ohm?



From a FAAEAL message: _Please kindly note all the driver of 32ohms old version and the new version is different, and the outstanding of tuning for old version is on the analysis, the new version is in the bass. For the 64ohms, the driver is  the same, but the material of cable is not the same, like silver line upgrade version: the silver line verison is  a better upgrade for middle,  treble ._


Also, there are some sellers purporting to sell 16 ohm faaeal earbuds, faaeal said they don't make those. I asked FAAEAL if they recommended their best bud, uneamped, from a smartphone and they suggested this

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...32804583069.html?spm=2114.12010615.0.0.lk4xO1

But I heard from people bass is better on 32 than 64 so, I dunno.


----------



## Ira Delphic

Danneq said:


> They usually last longer if you treat them with care. A good rule is - budget stuff for listening when outside and high end earbuds for when you listen more concentrated at home...



That's how I roll cheap earbuds out in the wild and TOTL in controlled conditions - home, library, etc. But there's significant amount of anecdotal information in this thread of earbuds spontaneously going bad – Shozy Cygnus for example. If you consider the physics - a long, strong heavy cord connected to delicate wires soldered to the drivers...the strain relief better be well designed. It reminds me of how the laces of running shoes become untied. For headphones I only use models with removable cables to eliminate a point of failure. For TOTL earbuds maybe removable cables are the way to go. Also I would only buy a TOTL earbud with a usable manufacturer’s warranty.


----------



## golov17 (May 11, 2017)

Del


----------



## golov17

rkw said:


> No need for a better method
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1330657113695431&set=pcb.1819526888308837


Yep 



Spoiler


----------



## ctaxxxx

golov17 said:


> Yep
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


How do you know what is what? Are there no labels?! My OCD is going off right now lol.


----------



## golov17

ctaxxxx said:


> How do you know what is what? Are there no labels?! My OCD is going off right now lol.


Any father knows his kids, lol


----------



## Saoshyant

golov17 said:


> Any father knows his kids, lol



Honestly, I might use the suggested 64 slot case for my budget & seldom used earbuds, and keep the more loved in their cases.  I know you probably have at least 100+ earbuds at this point, but the lack of organization is starting to bug me, so I can't keep going your route.


----------



## boblauer

Saoshyant said:


> Honestly, I might use the suggested 64 slot case for my budget & seldom used earbuds, and keep the more loved in their cases.  I know you probably have at least 100+ earbuds at this point, but the lack of organization is starting to bug me, so I can't keep going your route.


If want a little more compact and storable solution get a multi compartment Hobby box or fishing tackle box. I have 3 of the former, each has slots for @12 individual compartments and they stack in a drawer with a clear lid. That satisfies my OCD.


----------



## Saoshyant

boblauer said:


> If want a little more compact and storable solution get a multi compartment Hobby box or fishing tackle box. I have 3 of the former, each has slots for @12 individual compartments and they stack in a drawer with a clear lid. That satisfies my OCD.



As it is, I probably should be shrinking my collection as there's zero need for as many as I own.  Too many to rotate through as I'd rather use ones with better suiting sound sigs.  Just haven't wanted to go through the effort, and this will refresh my memory on some of my purchases.


----------



## endia

lol, I always try to keep total number below 5 (five)


----------



## Ira Delphic

endia said:


> lol, I always try to keep total number below 5 (five)



It's heresy to mention but I'm in a similar boat. For me, 10 or fewer. When I find an earbud I really like I always want to get a backup just in case. For now that's the NICEHCK DIY PK2.
I have to remember that there will always be awesome earbuds coming out!


----------



## Blackground (May 11, 2017)

I swear every time I get a new TOTL earbud, a new one comes out that is some how "better". I am very skeptical with all this hype. I have better things to spend my money on. For example, I can just start buying the parts and making my own earbuds. Especially if this Diomnes lv2 is using the same driver as an original monk. My money will probably go a lot further buying the materials myself, that way I know I am actually getting a $200 earbud, because I put $200 into making it. They cant really be doing anything near rocket science in these things, they are ear buds for Pete's sake..


----------



## JASru

Sooo, I was out of this thread for quite some time. Any good things to buy for K's 500 lover?
I still find Stardust too neutral and boring. Guess it is correct when people call it a monitor-style bud.

p.s.Yeah I do remember I owe this thread a k's comparison =/ I was running terribly short on time last few months, hope it gets better


----------



## ctaxxxx

Blackground said:


> I swear every time I get a new TOTL earbud, a new one comes out that is some how "better". I am very skeptical with all this hype. I have better things to spend my money on. For example, I can just start buying the parts and making my own earbuds. Especially if this Diomnes lv2 is using the same driver as an original monk. My money will probably go a lot further buying the materials myself, that way I know I am actually getting a $200 earbud, because I put $200 into making it. They cant really be doing anything near rocket science in these things, they are ear buds for Pete's sake..


But isn't it the tuning that makes these stand out? I remember seeing posts way back how someone found out what drivers Cypherus used, but they couldn't replicate it due to how well he tunes them.


----------



## Danneq

Blackground said:


> I swear every time I get a new TOTL earbud, a new one comes out that is some how "better". I am very skeptical with all this hype. I have better things to spend my money on. For example, I can just start buying the parts and making my own earbuds. Especially if this Diomnes lv2 is using the same driver as an original monk. My money will probably go a lot further buying the materials myself, that way I know I am actually getting a $200 earbud, because I put $200 into making it. They cant really be doing anything near rocket science in these things, they are ear buds for Pete's sake..



Leap of faith, man. Leap of faith...

Some TOTL earbuds have not amazed me. I hated Hisoundaudio Living. None of the following wowed me: Rose Mojito, K's 500, TY HP650, Celsus Gramo One, VE Zen 2.

I absolutely adore all Cypherus earbuds I own. Diomnes Lv2 blew me away. Shozy Stardust is just amazing, I do spend some money on TOTL earbuds, but I feel that I need to buy and try. The stuff that I like I keep and the rest I sell. (well, I do sell some stuff that I sort of like since I want to slim down on my earbud collection).




JASru said:


> I still find Stardust too neutral and boring. Guess it is correct when people call it a monitor-style bud.



Correction: neutral and wonderful!


----------



## JASru

Danneq said:


> Correction: neutral and wonderful!


Well, this may be the DAP issue, but still, too boring for me. I am waiting for Alien+ to try them with it.
As I looked through past 20-30 pages there is no new TOTLs discovered? 
Looks like the tempo is going down a bit, which is actually a good thing.


----------



## Fabi

JASru said:


> Well, this may be the DAP issue, but still, too boring for me. I am waiting for Alien+ to try them with it.


Well, if you tried Stardust on your AP100, I would agree on neutral and boring


----------



## golov17

JASru said:


> Sooo, I was out of this thread for quite some time. Any good things to buy for K's 500 lover?
> I still find Stardust too neutral and boring. Guess it is correct when people call it a monitor-style bud.
> 
> p.s.Yeah I do remember I owe this thread a k's comparison =/ I was running terribly short on time last few months, hope it gets better


Go to Masya, and welcome


----------



## noknok23

received diy docomo pk2 from nicehck today
out of the box such a sweet and relax sound!!
surprisingly clear with brighter source like aune but sounds nice with anything
I'm letting it burn in now to see if any improvement comes.
very good for $20, i like it more than stuff i pay triple amount for...i recommend warmly


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Time to start "break-in" period.


----------



## Blackground

ctaxxxx said:


> But isn't it the tuning that makes these stand out? I remember seeing posts way back how someone found out what drivers Cypherus used, but they couldn't replicate it due to how well he tunes them.



I think for me that would be a more enjoyable journey; tuning sounds like a way more fun way to experience new sounds in ear buds vs buying new ones all the time. To each his/her own i guess. 

I think i am going to transition to creator, I've consumed (spent to much) enough. 

Do you know what people use to tune their earbuds? Are they actually tuning the driver itself of just adjusting/modifying the housing, cables, ect..


----------



## Blackground (May 11, 2017)

Danneq said:


> Leap of faith, man. Leap of faith...
> 
> Some TOTL earbuds have not amazed me. I hated Hisoundaudio Living. None of the following wowed me: Rose Mojito, K's 500, TY HP650, Celsus Gramo One, VE Zen 2.
> 
> ...


I totally agree with this approach. However, I feel like all the little quirks (for lack of a better word) of these earbuds that you mentioned get brought to light in this forum and is affecting the resale of those earbuds.

I am trying to keep my collection as simple/small as possible.

1 travel earbud (balanced) (Shozy BK)
1 office earbud (HP-650)
1 totl reference earbud (TBD/Custom)

So far, I think I am almost there.

Are there any links to theses diomnes lv2' we speak of?


----------



## chinmie

ctaxxxx said:


> But isn't it the tuning that makes these stand out? I remember seeing posts way back how someone found out what drivers Cypherus used, but they couldn't replicate it due to how well he tunes them.



true that. the edimun and red demun are also good examples. both are based on the cheap edifier H180, but their sound is so far out of the league from the stock ones, and yet they both also have a very different tuning and characteristic.


----------



## DBaldock9

boblauer said:


> If want a little more compact and storable solution get a multi compartment Hobby box or fishing tackle box. I have 3 of the former, each has slots for @12 individual compartments and they stack in a drawer with a clear lid. That satisfies my OCD.



I've got two of these, and one deeper model, but I probably should order some more...

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B007UTNREK/


----------



## weedophile

Blackground said:


> Do you know what people use to tune their earbuds? Are they actually tuning the driver itself of just adjusting/modifying the housing, cables, ect..


Am very interested in this too.


----------



## golov17

https://goo.gl/D7fmH1


----------



## bloodyf8

Which one good for j-pop blue/red demun or raven crow?? I like mid centric buds like pk1 , shozy cygnus is hard to get here ,any thoughts under 100$??


----------



## Danneq

Blackground said:


> I totally agree with this approach. However, I feel like all the little quirks (for lack of a better word) of these earbuds that you mentioned get brought to light in this forum and is affecting the resale of those earbuds.
> 
> I am trying to keep my collection as simple/small as possible.
> 
> ...




Well, everyone need to remember that different people have different preferences. Just because I might like something doesn't mean that someone else will like it. A treble head will not like the same sort of earbud as a bass head or a "neutral head".
So the most important thing here seems to be knowing what sort of sound a Head fier likes so that you will know if you might like an earbud that he/she recommends...


----------



## Ira Delphic (May 12, 2017)

bloodyf8 said:


> Which one good for j-pop blue/red demun or raven crow?? I like mid centric buds like pk1 , shozy cygnus is hard to get here ,any thoughts under 100$??





noknok23 said:


> received diy  pk2 from nicehck today
> out of the box such a sweet and relax sound!!
> surprisingly clear with brighter source like aune but sounds nice with anything
> I'm letting it burn in now to see if any improvement comes.
> very good for $20, i like it more than stuff i pay triple amount for...i recommend warmly



Consider The NICEHCK DIY PK2  is a sweet sounding earbud. For around $22 it approaches what you'd expect from some TOTL earbuds.
For my taste, an all rounder, but lacks the bass and sub-bass of other earbuds. It could be considered mid-centric. No crazy treble like **** PT-15.

Edit - mention head-fi for special price. I just got a second pair, black version for $18.00. 

Nicehck PK2 on left. Look familiar?


----------



## Saoshyant

bloodyf8 said:


> Which one good for j-pop blue/red demun or raven crow?? I like mid centric buds like pk1 , shozy cygnus is hard to get here ,any thoughts under 100$??



I don't listen to J-Pop but the vocals on the Crow are on par with the Cygnus.  If Crow Audio can still make it as it's a mod on the original Monk and not the Monk plus, it's a good alternative.  I personally never got along with the stiffness of the Red Demun but it's a great sounding earbud too.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Danneq said:


> Well, everyone need to remember that different people have different preferences. Just because I might like something doesn't mean that someone else will like it. A treble head will not like the same sort of earbud as a bass head or a "neutral head".
> So the most important thing here seems to be knowing what sort of sound a Head fier likes so that you will know if you might like an earbud that he/she recommends...



I've been updating my impressions on the Comparison List because I've noticed this. Sold my Red Demun's to another user, and he thought the top end were a bit aggressive. Went and removed (or moved) all descriptions of whether or not a bud was harsh from the objective bullet point. It's hard to give an objective description when you have your own preferences.

Also, the more buds I listened to, the more I noticed how bright the Shozy's were in comparison. Or maybe there are just a lot of warm buds. Really wish I had the MX980(?) or CAX Black so I have a good reference point of where neutral is. I think the Diomnes Lv2 are close though. Maybe a tad brighter?


----------



## Saoshyant

ctaxxxx said:


> I've been updating my impressions on the Comparison List because I've noticed this. Sold my Red Demun's to another user, and he thought the top end were a bit aggressive. Went and removed (or moved) all descriptions of whether or not a bud was harsh from the objective bullet point. It's hard to give an objective description when you have your own preferences.
> 
> Also, the more buds I listened to, the more I noticed how bright the Shozy's were in comparison. Or maybe there are just a lot of warm buds. Really wish I had the MX980(?) or CAX Black so I have a good reference point of where neutral is. I think the Diomnes Lv2 are close though. Maybe a tad brighter?



I personally know at least for the MX985, if that's basically true neutral, that's just not for me at all.  I've always known I've been more of a fun listener instead of analytical, and as they were my first good pair of earbuds I liked them at the time, but as I've progressed I've learned just how much they don't suit me.


----------



## upsguys88

oopeteroo said:


> As people says the cygnus have one of the best mids...I'm wondering how it compare to hd650 ?


 
are the cygnus worth $90?


----------



## Ira Delphic

upsguys88 said:


> are the cygnus worth $90?



That's a difficult question to answer. Shozy has claimed the Cygnus drivers NOS (new old stock), so once they're gone, no more of that version. If that makes a difference.
The silver cables eventually turn greenish, a turnoff to some.


----------



## dwayniac (May 12, 2017)

My current rankings

1. DIY EMX500
2. CKLewis' H-MX500 
3. Auglamour RX-1
4. TY Hi-Z 32 ohm
5. FAAEAL 64 ohm
6. QianYun Qian39


----------



## tinkertailor (May 12, 2017)

dwayniac said:


> My current rankings
> 
> 1. DIY EMX500
> 2. CKLewis' H-MX500
> ...




Sorry if this is a dumb question, but is the H-MX500 just a FAAEAL 32? when I search that , that's what comes up, which makes sense, cuz I love that bud. (if not, can you post a link?). I also love that EMX500...but mine crapped out and started distorting...I already ordered another pair though...the new ones with the white cable! (search it if you aren't aware of the new version)  : )


----------



## ozkan

I got my Seahf AWK-F32 and Vido a few days ago. While the Vido sounds amazing right ootb there is an annoying channel imbalance on my Seahf 32. The left side is louder than the right side and the soundstage seems to be unnaturally wider than it should be. I contacted with Jim from NICEHCK store on AliExpress about the issue and he asked me to shoot a video regarding to my  problem and also send an email. 

Really weird! How can  he expect me to show the channel imbalance problem on my Seahf AWK-F32? 

Is there anyone having the same imbalance problem on Seahf 32?


----------



## Ira Delphic (May 13, 2017)

removed


----------



## rkw (May 13, 2017)

ozkan said:


> the soundstage seems to be unnaturally wider than it should be.


They might be wired out of phase.
Here's a quick test: http://www.richardfarrar.com/audio/out-of-phase.mp3



ozkan said:


> Really weird! How can he expect me to show the channel imbalance problem on my Seahf AWK-F32?


He or she must have misunderstood. Their customer messages might be handled by any front office person. Don't use terms like "channel imbalance problem". Just tell them that one earbud plays louder than the other.

Out of phase wiring can also cause strange effects with channel imbalance.


----------



## golov17

ozkan said:


> Is there anyone having the same imbalance problem on Seahf 32?


 nope, works good..


----------



## Rizky Octayudha

golov17 said:


> with VE logo on the housing?



No, but their own logo


----------



## knudsen

ozkan said:


> I got my Seahf AWK-F32 and Vido a few days ago. While the Vido sounds amazing right ootb there is an annoying channel imbalance on my Seahf 32. The left side is louder than the right side and the soundstage seems to be unnaturally wider than it should be. I contacted with Jim from NICEHCK store on AliExpress about the issue and he asked me to shoot a video regarding to my  problem and also send an email.
> 
> Really weird! How can  he expect me to show the channel imbalance problem on my Seahf AWK-F32?
> 
> Is there anyone having the same imbalance problem on Seahf 32?



I was faced with a similar requirement when I complained that my Yinman 150 was out of phase (another seller). I just made an audio recording of "something" that did'nt proof anything but that was all they wanted. I'm guessing that they just want to lay out some obstacles and make it more cumbersome in case you want to cheat them.

However I expected to somehow be fully compensated, but they said they could offer me 10$ in return (paid 25 for the buds). Not too happy with that I said I was expecting more. So they said alright ship it back to them then, which would have been rather expensive. So had to accept the 10$. One does not stand in a too good position when things go wrong.


----------



## ozkan (May 13, 2017)

Thank you rkw. I did that test and it seems that my earphones are out of phase.


----------



## luedriver (May 13, 2017)

golov17 said:


> https://goo.gl/D7fmH1



"Wire: not hard; pull-resistant, suitable for sleeping and boxing;"

do we have any boxers here that need some earbuds for their training sessions?  


also just noticed the "AWK", so this is a collaboration earbud between ty hi-z and awk, right?


----------



## golov17

Скоро..


----------



## chinmie

just bought a few bass heavy buds (vido with mic, edifier h180, philips she3800) and an IEM (KZ ZS3) mainly for watching movies and listening to electronic... the vido is the clear winner for me. the bass is even more ample and better quality than the KZ ZS3. the vido definitively is my best pick (budget buds and beyond) for bass earbuds. i like it better than the TY HI-Z 32 because the frequencies are tuned better for my ears, no spike or dip that bothers me (the TY HI-Z, great as they are, have an annoying freq spike for me)


----------



## DBaldock9

chinmie said:


> just bought a few bass heavy buds (vido with mic, edifier h180, philips she3800) and an IEM (KZ ZS3) mainly for watching movies and listening to electronic... the vido is the clear winner for me. the bass is even more ample and better quality than the KZ ZS3. the vido definitively is my best pick (budget buds and beyond) for bass earbuds. i like it better than the TY HI-Z 32 because the frequencies are tuned better for my ears, no spike or dip that bothers me (the TY HI-Z, great as they are, have an annoying freq spike for me)



Just checking, since mine haven't arrived yet - the Vido w/Mic has a "Y" cable, and the Vido without Mic has a "J" cable?
If that's the case, then it suits me just fine, since I was planning to re-wire the Vido without Mic, anyway...


----------



## weedophile

DBaldock9 said:


> Just checking, since mine haven't arrived yet - the Vido w/Mic has a "Y" cable, and the Vido without Mic has a "J" cable?
> If that's the case, then it suits me just fine, since I was planning to re-wire the Vido without Mic, anyway...


I got them from taobao. And yes it should be the case.


----------



## Ira Delphic

golov17 said:


> Скоро..



The 2017 New DIY **** PK2 looks interesting and familiar...


----------



## chinmie

DBaldock9 said:


> Just checking, since mine haven't arrived yet - the Vido w/Mic has a "Y" cable, and the Vido without Mic has a "J" cable?
> If that's the case, then it suits me just fine, since I was planning to re-wire the Vido without Mic, anyway...



yes, Y cable for the mic version, J for non mic


----------



## ctaxxxx

@Danneq won't be the only with CAX Black anymore!  (Apologies to anyone here that I'm not aware of...)

Cypherus got more components and I was next on the waiting list!


----------



## Danneq (May 13, 2017)

ctaxxxx said:


> @Danneq won't be the only with CAX Black anymore!  (Apologies to anyone here that I'm not aware of...)
> 
> Cypherus got more components and I was next on the waiting list!



Congratulations!

Actually, I am not the only one on Head fi with a pair of CAX black. I think there are at least 4 more CAX black owners who are Head fi members. 3 of them have written in the Cypherus thread...


----------



## BloodyPenguin (May 13, 2017)

*NiceHCK DIY PK2* - _Review_:

Product Page: goo.gl/BJXH8G


**Build** - Lovely. Simply lovely. The NICEHCK DIY PK2 is a nicely put together earbud both in design and materials. From the bottom with its clear right angle plug with sufficient strain relief, to the the soft flexible white cable and this versions white PK2 style housings. Also for me, this smaller PK2 shell is a very comfortable fit, I use foams.


**Sound** - I used a few devices, including my Orb Jade Casa DAC/Amp for testing.

_- Lows_: This does extend south a touch, though mid-bass seems to take the largest percentage of the lows. There is just a hint of leakage into the mids, though never muddy, mostly giving the earbud a feeling of warmth in the lows.

_- Mids:_ I found that the mids are just a touch under neutral. Vocals are musical and smooth. Listening to "King - The Greatest" I found the group sound to take ever so laid back approach, more calming than in your face. I would not go as far to say the mids are recessed, just not overly concerned with being up front.

_- Highs:_ There is an extension to the upper frequencies. I would say they can get a touch bright on certain tracks, but never harsh. There is no lack of details in the highs.

_- Soundstage_: Not a lot to talk about here. Width is decent, but not overly distant.

_- Driving_:  Rated at 16Ω I thought these would be easier for most sources to power up, but I did find you did need a bit of power to get the most out of the NICEHCK DIY PK2. Something like the Benjie S5 has to be cranked up a little higher and did not provide the quickest speed. Best sound was when it was paired with my Orb Jada Casa System.


**Overall Thoughts** - For those looking for a great looking, quality build, biased mid-bass, relaxed mids and extending highs, the NICEHCK DIY PK2 might be right for you.














 



















 

--


----------



## VictorM86

Danneq said:


> Congratulations!
> 
> Actually, I am not the only one on Head fi with a pair of CAX black. I think there are at least 4 more CAX black owners who are Head fi members. 3 of them have written in the Cypherus thread...



Wish i was one of them... Unfortunately i didn't know Herry was making more of them nor that there were a waiting list 
By the way if you come across some components count me in! 
If not, i'll be on the lookout for some Campfred 2


----------



## Blueshound24

BloodyPenguin said:


> *NiceHCK DIY PK2* - _Review_:
> 
> Product Page: goo.gl/BJXH8G
> 
> ...



Thanks for the review. I'm waiting for the one I ordered. One comment I read here had compared it to the Cygnus.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Blueshound24 said:


> Thanks for the review. I'm waiting for the one I ordered. One comment I read here had compared it to the Cygnus.



Unfortunately I do not have the Cygnus to compare the both.  

--


----------



## dwayniac

tinkertailor said:


> Sorry if this is a dumb question, but is the H-MX500 just a FAAEAL 32? when I search that , that's what comes up, which makes sense, cuz I love that bud. (if not, can you post a link?). I also love that EMX500...but mine crapped out and started distorting...I already ordered another pair though...the new ones with the white cable! (search it if you aren't aware of the new version)  : )



https://goo.gl/zcJDNo. It could be a FAAEAL 32 but it's not marked on my mine. The seller calls it the H-MX500 in the description. I didn't know that there was a newer version of the EMX500. If I can get a "better" cable with the same sound,I would buy it.


----------



## silverfishla

I really love my Toneking TP16 buds since I got a Zishan Z1.  What are a couple of other buds that share a similar sound and soundstage?  Anything better out there....


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Is there any other impressions of the VE Zen 2.0 Black Edition?


----------



## tinkertailor

dwayniac said:


> https://goo.gl/zcJDNo. It could be a FAAEAL 32 but it's not marked on my mine



It is the FAAEAL 32....great bud. I really enjoy that cable!


----------



## chinmie

silverfishla said:


> I really love my Toneking TP16 buds since I got a Zishan Z1.  What are a couple of other buds that share a similar sound and soundstage?  Anything better out there....



the one that I've tried that had similar sound is edimun v3 rhodium, and to some extend, the Edifier H180


----------



## chellity

does someone have the link for the vidos?  aliexpress or taobao, with the mic, I suppose.


----------



## golov17

chellity said:


> does someone have the link for the vidos?  aliexpress or taobao, with the mic, I suppose.


 
New NICEHCK DIY Earbud In Ear Earphone Earbud Dynamic Flat Head Plug Earbud Bass HIFI Earphone Bass Earbud Use For Vieo Pad
http://s.aliexpress.com/FBNfAbUF 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## luedriver

chinmie said:


> just bought a few bass heavy buds (vido with mic, edifier h180, philips she3800) and an IEM (KZ ZS3) mainly for watching movies and listening to electronic... the vido is the clear winner for me. the bass is even more ample and better quality than the KZ ZS3. the vido definitively is my best pick (budget buds and beyond) for bass earbuds. i like it better than the TY HI-Z 32 because the frequencies are tuned better for my ears, no spike or dip that bothers me (the TY HI-Z, great as they are, have an annoying freq spike for me)



if budget wasn't an issue I would have recommended cygnus as it was recommended here by vapman for gaming

I know of / have a few earbuds that don't have the mx500 shell, but I don't play any competitive games to be able to tell you which have good separation and soundstage imaging for gaming

here they are in order of most use

apple earpods, philips she2670, auglmaour rx-1, philips she3200, sennheiser mx170, sony mdr-e9, "philips" she3800, sennheiser mx365, philips she2100, qianyun qian39, philips she1350, nokia hs-45, philips she3010, awei es10m (which seems to be slightly bigger in size despite not being a mx500 shell)

it seems I have more than a few


----------



## WayTooCrazy

My thoughts "so far" on the Zen 2.0 and Zen 2.0 Black Edition

https://www.facebook.com/groups/52vecn/permalink/1343110409099654/


----------



## noknok23

Quick comparaison between **** and NiceHCK diy earbuds

**** DIY, very nice on  zishan Z1, . More airy and detailed than Nicehck DIY. It does benefit from extra power beside the low impedance for the bass, it can extend a bit.. Nicehck DIY has more mid bass but no sub bass at all. Nicehck sounds better on lofi source because of it's forgiving nature but also scale well with more detailed sources like the aune. Build quality of Nicehck is lovely, really really excellent, perhaps the most pretty and comfortable earbuds i have. **** has a generic plug and the cable braiding is a bit messy after the splitter, it feels like fried ramen. Fit is the same of course and comfort of yuin shell are few step above mx500 imo.
Overall it's hard to tell which one is my favorite. They compliment each other and I don't regret owning both.

These earphones doesn't excel technically But sound is smooth, detailed enough with a kind of effortless presentation. They  are *not tiring *at all and should be considered as excellent choice for* casual listening or on the go*. I'm saying this cos the monk+ or Seahf32 while being perhaps technically superior in some ways, give me headache after a while. Unfortunately I don't have earphones on the same price range ($18-23)


----------



## AkashS04

DBaldock9 said:


> Just checking, since mine haven't arrived yet - the Vido w/Mic has a "Y" cable, and the Vido without Mic has a "J" cable?
> If that's the case, then it suits me just fine, since I was planning to re-wire the Vido without Mic, anyway...



Does it make any difference to have Y or J Cable? Any impact on sound quality?


----------



## JASru

Hell yeah, I managed to grab an Old Monk.


----------



## Danneq

AkashS04 said:


> Does it make any difference to have Y or J Cable? Any impact on sound quality?



No difference in SQ. Earbuds used to have J cable with a longer cable on the right side so that you could have the cable behind your neck. Y cable is far more comfortable and practical.


----------



## AkashS04

Danneq said:


> No difference in SQ. Earbuds used to have J cable with a longer cable on the right side so that you could have the cable behind your neck. Y cable is far more comfortable and practical.


Ok. I bought Vido with Mic so shold get Y cable hence more comfort. They shipped on 10th and 12-20 days is delivery time frame so waiting for them. Also waiting for Elecom earbuds.


----------



## AkashS04

Is there any change in Sound Quality of Monk+ with Coffee, Espresso and Coffee Gold Colour? Or just new colours added?


----------



## AkashS04

One thing I have noticed, there is almost no New earbuds on AliExpress. I am seeing same earbuds for last many months. There may be 1-2 new inclusions but that's all. Especially nothing new in Budget category.


----------



## tinkertailor

AkashS04 said:


> One thing I have noticed, there is almost no New earbuds on AliExpress. I am seeing same earbuds for last many months. There may be 1-2 new inclusions but that's all. Especially nothing new in Budget category.


This information may not be worth sharing in the future, especially in a stand alone post.


----------



## AkashS04

tinkertailor said:


> This information may not be worth sharing in the future, especially in a stand alone post.


Did not get you.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

AkashS04 said:


> Did not get you.



I wouldn't worry about it, there was even less value in that post than the original. Speak your mind. It is an open forum.


----------



## teesui

AkashS04 said:


> Is there any change in Sound Quality of Monk+ with Coffee, Espresso and Coffee Gold Colour? Or just new colours added?



The Coffee, Purple and Darth Black have the same tuning as the standard (Smoke) Monk.

I believe the Espresso has pretty much the same tuning as the Monk Candy, which is different from the standard Monk. I can't remember what the difference is though.


----------



## boblauer

AkashS04 said:


> Is there any change in Sound Quality of Monk+ with Coffee, Espresso and Coffee Gold Colour? Or just new colours added?



Espresso has the braided cable, metal y splitter and different plug. IMO there is a certain smoothness to the Candies and Espresso that come from the cable and/or the connector difference. It's slight however. The others Coffee and Gold are colors only afaik.
BTW listening to Candies today kind of ironic you should ask.


----------



## chinmie

AkashS04 said:


> Ok. I bought Vido with Mic so shold get Y cable hence more comfort. They shipped on 10th and 12-20 days is delivery time frame so waiting for them. Also waiting for Elecom earbuds.



based on your criteria, you will not be disappointed with the Vido. bass is great, has mic, and the build is quite sturdy. you might want to invest in cheap cases to protect them and increase their life


----------



## WayTooCrazy

I have the Balanced Espresso. I don't listen to them much, since I also have the Zen 2.0 Standard and Black in Balanced as well.  I kind of wish I had a way to "burn-in" these/earbuds/headphones and listen to them after 100hrs, 200hrs, etc. I hear the Espresso are supposed to be "really nice" after some burn-in. Maybe, time to re-purpose my AP60 into a "burn-in" rig...since I don't use it.


----------



## WayTooCrazy (May 17, 2017)

Ok, so... this is what I did.  I took my Hidizs AP60 and found a 4GB (couldn't find smaller in capacity from what I had) MicroSD card in an old phone that I had. I dropped on a 1HR Pink noise WAV file. I set it to repeat. I then cut a hole in the Box my Espresso shipped in and routed through a "charge" cable. Plugged that into the AP60, plugged in my Espresso, plugged the cable into the wall... Set it to play. I went to "https://www.timeanddate.com/" website and calculated out 100hrs from start of Burn-In... set a reminder on my phone... YAY! Instant Burn-In setup.


----------



## AkashS04

chinmie said:


> based on your criteria, you will not be disappointed with the Vido. bass is great, has mic, and the build is quite sturdy. you might want to invest in cheap cases to protect them and increase their life


Ok. I do have a pouch which I got with TDK In-Ear one and that should be fine to hold 2 earbuds (in my case Vido and Elecom). I also have a small case which I got with JVC FX3X so both should work.  if not then I will buy one which can hold these two as well as few foams as well.


----------



## luedriver

WayTooCrazy said:


> Ok, so... this is what I did.  I took my Hidizs AP60 and found a 4GB (couldn't find smaller in capacity from what I had) MicroSD card in an old phone that I had. I dropped on a 1HR Pink noise WAV file. I set it to repeat. I then cut a hole in the Box my Espresso shipped in and routed through a "charge" cable. Plugged that into the AP60, plugged in my Espresso, plugged the cable into the wall... Set it to play. I went to "https://www.timeanddate.com/" website and calculated out 100hrs from start of Burn-In... set a reminder on my phone... YAY! Instant Burn-In setup.



I do the same thing only with a sansa zip clip instead, and I had read somewhere on innerfidelity that Tyll had burned in some headphones to see if it had any effect and suggested burning them in hour playback of white noise followed by 10 mins of "rest", that's why I have a "playlist" of whitenoise and "empty mp3",

I haven't burned in anything in a while, probably since I bought the senn mx365's


----------



## WayTooCrazy

luedriver said:


> I do the same thing only with a sansa zip clip instead, and I had read somewhere on innerfidelity that Tyll had burned in some headphones to see if it had any effect and suggested burning them in hour playback of white noise followed by 10 mins of "rest", that's why I have a "playlist" of whitenoise and "empty mp3",
> 
> I haven't burned in anything in a while, probably since I bought the senn mx365's



Good point. I just modified my file for 50 minutes of Pink, 10 minutes of rest. So, only 20hrs a day of actual break-in...and I adjust for that in my "length of time" measurement.


----------



## Ver JJ

Sorry to ask a cliché question but do you guys any recommendation for earbuds that is bright sounding, lack of bass and (cheap)?


----------



## rkw

Ver JJ said:


> Sorry to ask a cliché question but do you guys any recommendation for earbuds that is bright sounding, lack of bass and (cheap)?


Depends on how cheap you want. Auglamour RX-1 fits the description but it is over US$20.


----------



## CharlesRievone

Ver JJ said:


> Sorry to ask a cliché question but do you guys any recommendation for earbuds that is bright sounding, lack of bass and (cheap)?


Someone asking a bright earbud for a change 

**** PT15
**** EPK1


----------



## ATi7500

Ver JJ said:


> Sorry to ask a cliché question but do you guys any recommendation for earbuds that is bright sounding, lack of bass and (cheap)?



Edifier H185


----------



## AkashS04 (May 18, 2017)

Is there any way to burn the Music player  Especially with Brown and Pink noise to boost the bass. Also, if I burn my earbud with only brown noise and low frequencies, will that boost the bass and warmness of the earbud?


----------



## WayTooCrazy

AkashS04 said:


> Is there any way to burn the Music player  Especially with Brown and Pink noise to boost the bass. Also, if I burn my earbud with only brown noise and low frequencies, will that boost the bass and warmness of the earbud?



If you use the specific music player with the earbuds you are trying to burn-in... they would burn in together. I'm actually doing this with Pink noise and a pair of VE Espresso, but I don't have a "control" version to test... so I need to order a pair.


----------



## AkashS04

WayTooCrazy said:


> If you use the specific music player with the earbuds you are trying to burn-in... they would burn in together. I'm actually doing this with Pink noise and a pair of VE Espresso, but I don't have a "control" version to test... so I need to order a pair.


Ok. Did you notice any change in sound of Monk+ after burning? or it is same with no bass?


----------



## Ver JJ

rkw said:


> Depends on how cheap you want. Auglamour RX-1 fits the description but it is over US$20.



Well somewhere under 50usd......because I do own some of those earplugs that cost more than that. I just want something (cheap) that I can play with.....of course I won't throw them away, they will all be in my collection, no worries.



CharlesRievone said:


> Someone asking a bright earbud for a change
> 
> **** PT15
> **** EPK1





ATi7500 said:


> Edifier H185



I see, thank you very much, I will check them out very soon.


----------



## chinmie

AkashS04 said:


> Ok. Did you notice any change in sound of Monk+ after burning? or it is same with no bass?



i don't think even a fully burned monk+ will have big bass. the most increase might be the soundstage and the treble section, though not by much


----------



## Ira Delphic (May 18, 2017)

Ver JJ said:


> Well somewhere under 50usd......because I do own some of those earplugs that cost more than that. I just want something (cheap) that I can play with.....of course I won't throw them away, they will all be in my collection, no worries.



Consider the Blox B160 (Around USD$45). It fits your requirement, but less sensitive than the other earbuds mentioned. The build quality is OK but isn't especially good. In fact no better build than NICEHCK DIY PK2 or EPk1 which are less than half the cost.

Edit: typo corrected, PK2


----------



## chinmie

has anyone tried the vido and yincrow x6 head to head yet? can anyone give some review?


----------



## WayTooCrazy

AkashS04 said:


> Ok. Did you notice any change in sound of Monk+ after burning? or it is same with no bass?



Can't say yet, still burning in till Monday @ 10:30am. I run it 50 minutes Pink noise, 10 minutes empty (for a break), and then cycle that track continuously. Though, I don't have a control headphone...so any change will be even less noticeable.


----------



## Ver JJ

Ira Delphic said:


> Consider the Blox B160 (Around USD$45). It fits your requirement, but less sensitive than the other earbuds mentioned. The build quality is OK but isn't especially good. In fact no better build than NICEHCK DIY PT2 or EPk1 which are less than half the cost.



Well sadly mostly of your recommendation are no in stock at Taobao but nevertheless, thanks for the reply.


----------



## Blueshound24 (May 18, 2017)

Ver JJ said:


> Well sadly mostly of your recommendation are no in stock at Taobao but nevertheless, thanks for the reply.



This probably won't help you since it looks like you are not in the USA, but there is an eBay seller with the B160. I am not affiliated with the seller, but have considered buying these and maybe it might help someone else.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BLOX-B160-E...618556?hash=item33ced85e7c:g:riMAAOSwdGFYnLuQ

Edit: Looks like he does ship to Malaysia and several other countries.


----------



## AkashS04

BTW, my Vido has arrived at NY. Will be delivered on Monday though.


----------



## rkw

Ver JJ said:


> I just want something (cheap) that I can play with


In this thread, "cheap" is relative. There have been requests for recommendations in the $3 to $7 range.


----------



## chellity

AkashS04 said:


> Is there any way to burn the Music player  Especially with Brown and Pink noise to boost the bass. Also, if I burn my earbud with only brown noise and low frequencies, will that boost the bass and warmness of the earbud?



Yes, the music you listen to will affect how your earphones burn in.  You should also try burning them in an environment where you are cooking in.  The aroma of homecooked food will warm those drivers up, and give it some more warmth in the sound.


----------



## Narayan23

chellity said:


> Yes, the music you listen to will affect how your earphones burn in.  You should also try burning them in an environment where you are cooking in.  The aroma of homecooked food will warm those drivers up, and give it some more warmth in the sound.



I do that all the time, I like my drivers medium rare so brown noise on the outside and pink noise on the inside leaves them just perfect.


----------



## slappypete

Hey guys. My current favorite earbud in my collection is the RX1, but I haven't yet aquired anything too pricey (my most expensive bud is the ty hi-z 320 ohm). Anyway, I am thinking about snagging a pair of shozy bk's, and I'm wondering how they compare to the RX1. If any of you that own both the RX1 and BK could post some comparissons between the two I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!


----------



## knudsen

**** EMX500 is amazing out of the box for me. Best bass I've heard, clearly goes to 20Hz (http://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_sinebursts20-200.php), and without compromizing the rest. Can't stop listening to them. Without any eq they sound like the target response I've been trying to eq all others to (on ibasso dx90). 

They're buds with biceps

Haven't spent much time with Vido (got both yesterday) as EMX500 seemed like the big brother right away, though Vido seems nice too.


----------



## Ver JJ

Blueshound24 said:


> This probably won't help you since it looks like you are not in the USA, but there is an eBay seller with the B160. I am not affiliated with the seller, but have considered buying these and maybe it might help someone else.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/BLOX-B160-E...618556?hash=item33ced85e7c:g:riMAAOSwdGFYnLuQ
> 
> Edit: Looks like he does ship to Malaysia and several other countries.



Wow, thank you so much for all the effort.......maybe I will get it as my birthday present. Also are you from Malaysia, if so any recommendation for store that sells tons of "budget" earbuds.



rkw said:


> In this thread, "cheap" is relative. There have been requests for recommendations in the $3 to $7 range.



Yeah......just kind of playing with them....just recently got my Ve Monk+ and TY HIZ.......maybe I will burn them in if I feel like it......maybe *puts on earbuds and set my DAP on line out*.....


----------



## Blueshound24

Ver JJ said:


> Also are you from Malaysia, if so any recommendation for store that sells tons of "budget" earbuds.



Nope, USA. 
Sorry, can't help with stores in Malaysia.


----------



## kurtextrem

pushing the http://penonaudio.com/PMV-B01-AOEDE again - any reviews yet?
from FB: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=784531325030053&set=gm.1262893210489269&type=3&fref=mentions


----------



## ClieOS

kurtextrem said:


> pushing the http://penonaudio.com/PMV-B01-AOEDE again - any reviews yet?
> from FB: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=784531325030053&set=gm.1262893210489269&type=3&fref=mentions



Have it for about a week now. Overall a very good and balanced sounding earbud. Not quite a champion level yet, but it is easily a upper great / contender level. Quite an impressive feat for PMV's first earbud.


----------



## AkashS04

knudsen said:


> **** EMX500 is amazing out of the box for me. Best bass I've heard, clearly goes to 20Hz (http://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_sinebursts20-200.php), and without compromizing the rest. Can't stop listening to them. Without any eq they sound like the target response I've been trying to eq all others to (on ibasso dx90).
> 
> They're buds with biceps
> 
> Haven't spent much time with Vido (got both yesterday) as EMX500 seemed like the big brother right away, though Vido seems nice too.


I guess they don't have Mic option. Is that so?


----------



## ctaxxxx

Anyone with mic earbuds, do the voices usually come out of both sides or just one? I bought a Monk+ with mic, but it only comes out the left ear (using for PS4 party chat). Is there one that comes out both?


----------



## kurtextrem

ClieOS said:


> Have it for about a week now. Overall a very good and balanced sounding earbud. Not quite a champion level yet, but it is easily a upper great / contender level. Quite an impressive feat for PMV's first earbud.


Thank you. Would you say the Svara L is better than the PMV B01?


----------



## rahmish

Hi, I'm new at forum, just read the thread before for couple of months, I'm looking for earbuds at about 50$ budget what would be good for my preferences ( jazz, electro-swing,hip-hop,downtempo,electronic), thought about Blox b 160, Dietris, I will be appreciate any suggestions. 
And how to update profile information, can't get it...Thank you


----------



## rahmish

Has anyone tried AbNormal Blue Monks, any suggestions on them?


----------



## Yobster69

knudsen said:


> **** EMX500 is amazing out of the box for me. Best bass I've heard, clearly goes to 20Hz (http://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_sinebursts20-200.php), and without compromizing the rest. Can't stop listening to them. Without any eq they sound like the target response I've been trying to eq all others to (on ibasso dx90).
> 
> They're buds with biceps
> 
> Haven't spent much time with Vido (got both yesterday) as EMX500 seemed like the big brother right away, though Vido seems nice too.


Still my favourites, by quite a margin. I keep going back to my other buds, different amps, slightly different EQ settings, different mind sets even. But they are always the ones that make me feel everything is in it's place. 
Quite a feat for a £10 bud. 
They are trading places with my Hi-Z 650's all the time. And winning. Go figure


----------



## ClieOS

kurtextrem said:


> Thank you. Would you say the Svara L is better than the PMV B01?



Yes, but the margin isn't by night and day.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

'am I the only one here who has the Zen 2.0 Black Edition?  Wondering how they rate against some of the other buds you guys are using.  I also have the Zen 2.0 Standard (and the obligatory Monk +), but these are my only buds so far... looking to fill out my collection.


----------



## DBaldock9

WayTooCrazy said:


> 'am I the only one here who has the Zen 2.0 Black Edition?  Wondering how they rate against some of the other buds you guys are using.  I also have the Zen 2.0 Standard (and the obligatory Monk +), but these are my only buds so far... looking to fill out my collection.



I've got, and really like the quality of the Midrange on, the VE Asura 2.0 (2.5mm TRRS).
I've also got several different models of the Monk+.
The VE Zen 2.0 Black looks like a really good earbud, but I haven't endeavored to spend that much on any earbuds, yet.
My most expensive set are the K's 500 ($107).


----------



## knudsen

Yobster69 said:


> Still my favourites, by quite a margin. I keep going back to my other buds, different amps, slightly different EQ settings, different mind sets even. But they are always the ones that make me feel everything is in it's place.
> Quite a feat for a £10 bud.
> They are trading places with my Hi-Z 650's all the time. And winning. Go figure



I believe I've read there are 2 versions, where the first one was analytical the second is more focused on bass. You would'nt now which you have?


----------



## rkw

WayTooCrazy said:


> 'am I the only one here who has the Zen 2.0 Black Edition?


There are others, but unfortunately it is so difficult to search in this forum. Someone posted recently about the balanced version of Black Edition.

I have the Monk+ and Zen 2 standard edition. I find both to have too much reverb, which makes acoustic instruments sound unnatural (such as in classical music).


----------



## Yobster69

knudsen said:


> I believe I've read there are 2 versions, where the first one was analytical the second is more focused on bass. You would'nt now which you have?


Well all I can tell you is that they were originally called the DIY EMX500 from the banned seller, and I purchased the brown cable version. Quick pic for reference purposes. 
I hope this helps?


----------



## knudsen (May 20, 2017)

Thanks man, I can't say if they're the same either. Mine looks like here - same cable as you;
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...ss-Earbuds-DJ-Earbuds-Heavy/32789344867.html?

I find the models a bit confusing, as some say they're Fengru's. Those are advertised as 16, 32 or 64 ohms, but I don't even know if that can be trusted.

I'm thinking whether the cable has part in the bass, as I just saw this one with the same cable - and it was not my impression from reviews that diy pk2 in general had lots of bass:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...-Earphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds/32811888693.html?


----------



## Yobster69

knudsen said:


> Thanks man, I can't say if they're the same either. Mine looks like here - same cable as you;
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...ss-Earbuds-DJ-Earbuds-Heavy/32789344867.html?
> 
> I find the models a bit confusing, as some say they're Fengru's. Those are advertised as 16, 32 or 64 ohms, but I don't even know if that can be trusted.
> ...


Those are the ones, your link is exactly where I purchased mine from. 
Regarding the PK2's, I have 3 pairs now, the banned seller EPK1's, the HCK TP1's and the HCK DIY PK2's. The first 2 are extremely bass light, almost no sub bass at all though the mids and highs are nice. The PK2's have much more bass, but not to the level of any of the MX style buds I have, so i can only say that although the cable may have some influence I am of the view that the PK buds are more mid and high focussed. 
This is only my limited experience though and maybe somebody with more of this style bud could advise otherwise?


----------



## knudsen

Yobster69 said:


> Those are the ones, your link is exactly where I purchased mine from.
> Regarding the PK2's, I have 3 pairs now, the banned seller EPK1's, the HCK TP1's and the HCK DIY PK2's. The first 2 are extremely bass light, almost no sub bass at all though the mids and highs are nice. The PK2's have much more bass, but not to the level of any of the MX style buds I have, so i can only say that although the cable may have some influence I am of the view that the PK buds are more mid and high focussed.
> This is only my limited experience though and maybe somebody with more of this style bud could advise otherwise?



Well I succumbed and ordered it. Guess this will never end...


----------



## luedriver

ctaxxxx said:


> Anyone with mic earbuds, do the voices usually come out of both sides or just one? I bought a Monk+ with mic, but it only comes out the left ear (using for PS4 party chat). Is there one that comes out both?



first time I heard something like that 

I have apple earpods, and some android phone earbuds with mics, and I never had that problem

the only problems with mic I have come across is that different headphone jacks connect differently to the same source and sound distant, when that happens pressing the button makes the sound closer, indicating that it is a connection problem which I solve either with an ordinary adapter or one that is supposed to work for pc's (splits to headphone and mic separately) 

that's why I just try to avoid them (mics)

have you tried any other headphones just for reference to see whether the chat comes only from the left side?


----------



## rahmish

Anyone owe both Blox b160 and Abnormal Dietris? Which earbuds are better for what type of music? Thank you for any replies.


----------



## Saoshyant

Just got in Crow Audio's Raven from Rholupat.  Beautiful job on the cable, absolutely lovely actually.  Doing my initial listen now via Opus #1 with Memoro de la Stona.  So far it's comes off as Mid & Treble centric, with very realistic vocals.  Cymbals have a great splash to their sound too.  It feels very detailed, so probably will do very well with classical music.  It responds fairly well to EQ, allowing for a decent enough amount of bass to be achieved.  It's also driven easily enough as my Shanling M1 can run it without issue.

Their previous earbud the Crow in my book went head on well against the Cygnus, and for my preferences slightly outperformed in vocals where the Cygnus had other offerings to trade off.  I need to ask the crafter first, but if this is intended to be the successor to the Crow, it could be something special.


----------



## nmatheis

Saoshyant said:


> Just got in Crow Audio's Raven from Rholupat.  Beautiful job on the cable, absolutely lovely actually.  Doing my initial listen now via Opus #1 with Memoro de la Stona.  So far it's comes off as Mid & Treble centric, with very realistic vocals.  Cymbals have a great splash to their sound too.  It feels very detailed, so probably will do very well with classical music.  It responds fairly well to EQ, allowing for a decent enough amount of bass to be achieved.  It's also driven easily enough as my Shanling M1 can run it without issue.
> 
> Their previous earbud the Crow in my book went head on well against the Cygnus, and for my preferences slightly outperformed in vocals where the Cygnus had other offerings to trade off.  I need to ask the crafter first, but if this is intended to be the successor to the Crow, it could be something special.



Cool. I've already got a couple Indonesian buds (Red De'mun, Heavenly Sounds Cadenza) and several more on the way including Raven. My understanding is that Raven is their own creation whereas the original Crow was notified VE Monk (original Monk, not Monk Plus). As such, the only way you can get Crow now is to send them your own pair of original VE Monk. I've got a pair, but I'm not sending them in to have them modded, lol. Too rare!

Incoming buds - ABNormal White Dietris, Crow Raven, ELi Sabia, a pair from Phobia, and 16 & 32 ohm hand-held painted buds from Uairekko. I've also got Blur on the way. Excited!


----------



## Saoshyant

nmatheis said:


> Cool. I've already got a couple Indonesian buds (Red De'mun, Heavenly Sounds Cadenza) and several more on the way including Raven. My understanding is that Raven is their own creation whereas the original Crow was notified VE Monk (original Monk, not Monk Plus). As such, the only way you can get Crow now is to send them your own pair of original VE Monk. I've got a pair, but I'm not sending them in to have them modded, lol. Too rare!
> 
> Incoming buds - ABNormal White Dietris, Crow Raven, ELi Sabia, a pair from Phobia, and 16 & 32 ohm hand-held painted buds from Uairekko. I've also got Blur on the way. Excited!



Yep, I'm really impressed with Uairekko's work.  A custom paint job as well as a custom tuning was really great for the cost.  The Indonesian earbud market is really showing an amazing amount of talent.  I had a quick chat with Aldy from Crow, and he confirmed the Raven wasn't intended to replace the Crow, just aiming to be an all-arounder, which it seems to have some promise in being capable of doing so.  Apparently some have reported the bass coming more to life after 50 or so hours, so I'll be burning mine in for now to see what happens.  It EQs well enough that I'll be quite happy if the bass improves past where it is already.

BTW, it so far seems to really like the M1, so I'm happy to have an easily portable dap for it.


----------



## nmatheis

The whole Indonesian DIY market is amazing. Besides buds, I'm getting TJ's Revamp Acoustics diy dap, the Nuansa P1. Should be getting P1+ the first 3 buds next week. Just left SF on their way to Portland


----------



## Ver JJ

Blueshound24 said:


> Nope, USA.
> Sorry, can't help with stores in Malaysia.


 
No worries.



WayTooCrazy said:


> 'am I the only one here who has the Zen 2.0 Black Edition?  Wondering how they rate against some of the other buds you guys are using.  I also have the Zen 2.0 Standard (and the obligatory Monk +), but these are my only buds so far... looking to fill out my collection.



Well I had just ordered the following earbuds with a total cost of around 60USD:-

Yincrow X6 (With Pouch) [RMB 59]
Link: https://world.taobao.com/item/54249...630dda8a240b62c1&spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.tpuWyd


Benjie BJ-49 [RMB 49]
Link: https://world.tmall.com/item/521519503806.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.tpuWyd&skuId=3107096887116


AKG K311 [RMB 69]
Link: https://world.tmall.com/item/40547366783.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.tpuWyd&skuId=3116471233298


DIY Z180 [RMB 30]
Link: https://world.taobao.com/item/38656938029.htm


DIY MX500 [RMB 25]
Link: https://world.taobao.com/item/526435784603.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.tpuWyd#detail


DIY PK1 [RMB 39]
Link: https://world.taobao.com/item/20069799424.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.bYNvk7#detail

The prices and names are just for reference, of course there might be other options. I had never heard of them but yeah.......check them out......since they don't cost a lot......hopefully you can fill up your "collection" empty space.


----------



## Ira Delphic

knudsen said:


> **** EMX500 is amazing out of the box for me. Best bass I've heard, clearly goes to 20Hz (http://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_sinebursts20-200.php), and without compromizing the rest. Can't stop listening to them. Without any eq they sound like the target response I've been trying to eq all others to (on ibasso dx90).
> 
> They're buds with biceps
> 
> Haven't spent much time with Vido (got both yesterday) as EMX500 seemed like the big brother right away, though Vido seems nice too.



How's the Vido compare to the EMX 500?

I also wonder how the EMX500 compares to the Yincrow X6. The Yincrow X6 has extensive bass according to what I've read. I've sworn off budget earbuds but a cheap earbud with emphasis on bass - not an all-rounder, would be a nice thing to have at times! The X6 is not new, but just now getting more attention.

I had the Nicehck DIY PK2 for a week but gifted it. Wating for the black cable version to arrive in a week or two. According to Jim at Nicehck it has the same drivers, and sound signature.


----------



## rahmish

How to 


Saoshyant said:


> Yep, I'm really impressed with Uairekko's work.  A custom paint job as well as a custom tuning was really great for the cost.  The Indonesian earbud market is really showing an amazing amount of talent.  I had a quick chat with Aldy from Crow, and he confirmed the Raven wasn't intended to replace the Crow, just aiming to be an all-arounder, which it seems to have some promise in being capable of doing so.  Apparently some have reported the bass coming more to life after 50 or so hours, so I'll be burning mine in for now to see what happens.  It EQs well enough that I'll be quite happy if the bass improves past where it is already.
> 
> BTW, it so far seems to really like the M1, so I'm happy to have an easily portable dap for it.


How to contact Uairekko and what would be the price with shipping to UK?


----------



## knudsen (May 20, 2017)

Ira Delphic said:


> How's the Vido compare to the EMX 500?



My Vido has not run more than 5 hours, EMX500 double that. Both are very very good and they are familiar to my ears, but I believe EMX500 has even more subbass (they both have lots of bass). And comparatively the Vido has elevated mids, somewhere around 2-3-4000Hz. This can give the Vido very sweet mids, which is not there in the same way with EMX. I think I prefer vido for gaming because of this, but for music I think I prefer EMX500. I am sensitive to those mids, and some voices and horns gets too much for me with Vido (not sure its above neutral, I talk relative). Likewise with the HI-Z 32. In the highs (for example cymbals) the EMX has the most level, which results in the largest scene. The bass makes a lot of music very "full" sounding, its like you can feel the room because of the bass. I especially like the EMX500 with 60s and 70s music (blues, soul, jazz) and electronic music, but there is nothing I don't like them with, they sound amazing with a variety of music. I don't know yet what to say about for example separation.

All in all I would say EMX500 is U shaped. Not shure what Vido is, maybe others can chime in.

But take it with a grain of salt, as I am a beginner and they and my ears are not run in


----------



## ZerkMeister

Imma be honest, I havent visited this thread in a while because of the site rework. 
Can anyone give me a short list of the new noteworthy ear buds?
Thanks <3


----------



## ricesteam

I currently own the Zen 1.0 but I'm looking for an upgrade. @ClieOS, what are you recommendations? 

Also, any reason why your ranking was removed from the first post? I tried searching for it, but I couldn't find it.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

First time listening to the Zen 2.0 Black Edition directly off of the Fiio X5iii, and I actually really like it. A little cumbersome though (lol).


----------



## waynes world

ricesteam said:


> I currently own the Zen 1.0 but I'm looking for an upgrade. @ClieOS, what are you recommendations?
> 
> Also, any reason why your ranking was removed from the first post? I tried searching for it, but I couldn't find it.



You can find his rankings here:
http://www.inearmatters.net/p/earbuds-roundup.html

As far as finding an upgrade for the Zen 1.0, good luck! I don't think they get much better, do they?

Then again, I've been being blown away lately by cheapos like the Qian39 and the Vido's (let alone the Monk+'s), so I think I'm sticking around in the budget-fi earbud zone for now.

Having said that, I'm also interested in what ClieOS's response will be


----------



## ClieOS

ricesteam said:


> I currently own the Zen 1.0 but I'm looking for an upgrade. @ClieOS, what are you recommendations?
> 
> Also, any reason why your ranking was removed from the first post? I tried searching for it, but I couldn't find it.



If you are looking for a direct upgrade of the same sound signature, I don't really have any recommendation. As with all the ToTL earbuds, finding a direct upgrade is usually not easy, if not impossible. But if you are merely looking for another ToTL earbuds and don't mind a different sound signature, I can recommend Shozy Stardust / BK (and better yet, the balanced version of Startdust / BK). Cypherus Audio Campfred and Qfred will make my shortlist as well, but those are not nearly as easy to find.


----------



## nmatheis

For higher tier buds other than Zen or Zen 2.0, I'm really enjoying TY Hi-Z 400ohm and Cypherus CampFred.


----------



## ricesteam

ClieOS said:


> If you are looking for a direct upgrade of the same sound signature, I don't really have any recommendation. As with all the ToTL earbuds, finding a direct upgrade is usually not easy, if not impossible. But if you are merely looking for another ToTL earbuds and don't mind a different sound signature, I can recommend Shozy Stardust / BK (and better yet, the balanced version of Startdust / BK). Cypherus Audio Campfred and Qfred will make my shortlist as well, but those are not nearly as easy to find.



Thanks for the info. What do you think of K's 500 Earbuds?


----------



## ClieOS

ricesteam said:


> Thanks for the info. What do you think of K's 500 Earbuds?


About the same level, though not necessarily better.


----------



## DBaldock9

I'm trying to figure out what's up with the **** PT15 - 

First: I bought a set last Fall (from AK Audio Store on AliExpress), and found that when wearing the cables over-the-ear, they're a secure and comfortable fit - and I get decent, if not profound Bass response.  Since my hearing drops off in the 13KHz - 14KHz range, I wasn't finding the PT15 unbearably bright, like some (most) others here on Head-Fi - but they were tilted toward the Midrange & Treble end of the spectrum.

Second:  Recently, when removing my MMCX cable, the connector pulled out of the right earbud, so I ordered a replacement set from AK Audio Store.  They arrived today, and the new ones have a somewhat different sound signature.  They're more balanced sounding, with significantly better low Bass response.  I don't know if it's mainly due to them fitting my ears really well, or if there's been a driver upgrade?  The product page on AliExpress, is the same one I saw and ordered from last Fall, and lists the PT15 as a 2016 model.


----------



## noknok23

From all the high-end earphones I tried, nothing beats campfred balanced. @ricesteam campfred 2 is coming in august. You might want to be on the waiting list.

I have Blur 魔女 since a few days. Still in burn in process although bloody penguin wasn't kidding when he said it has an edge on clarity. It even feel uncanny at times! Soundstage is bigger than usual. Clear and airy like a sunny winter walk


----------



## ricesteam

noknok23 said:


> From all the high-end earphones I tried, nothing beats campfred balanced. @ricesteam campfred 2 is coming in august. You might want to be on the waiting list.
> 
> I have Blur 魔女 since a few days. Still in burn in process although bloody penguin wasn't kidding when he said it has an edge on clarity. It even feel uncanny at times! Soundstage is bigger than usual. Clear and airy like a sunny winter walk



How do I get on the waiting list?


----------



## noknok23

ricesteam said:


> How do I get on the waiting list?


Contact @Cyperus for all the info


----------



## ricesteam

@noknok23, I've been trying to find more info regarding Blur 魔女. They sound interesting. How do they compare to the ToTL earbuds?


----------



## SuperMAG

anyone got a link for this vido earbuds everybody talking about, cant find them anywhere in aliexpress.


----------



## Ver JJ

SuperMAG said:


> anyone got a link for this vido earbuds everybody talking about, cant find them anywhere in aliexpress.



If I am not mistaken, this is the one. https://world.tmall.com/item/10869026276.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.mP2y73 But, keep in mind that this earphone has a J shaped cable.


----------



## ozkan

SuperMAG said:


> anyone got a link for this vido earbuds everybody talking about, cant find them anywhere in aliexpress.



New NICEHCK DIY Earbud In Ear Earphone Earbud Dynamic Flat Head Plug Earbud Bass HIFI Earphone Bass Earbud Use For Vieo Pad
http://s.aliexpress.com/v6j6NFRj 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## upsguys88

Looking for a bud that has good, vast soundstage, clear mids, tight sub-bass and bass, non-sharp treble, and no price constraints. What about the Shozy Cignus, or the Cypherus Camp Fred 2, or Cypherus Blue Darth?


----------



## noknok23 (May 21, 2017)

ricesteam said:


> @noknok23, I've been trying to find more info regarding Blur 魔女. They sound interesting. How do they compare to the ToTL earbuds?


Imo pretty good if you are looking for what they have to offer. still not fully burned in but what I could gather is that they sound quite different from other totl, They don't try to be all rounder. The quality of bass is sub par. However clarity and soundstage is truly impressive. Depends on the music you listen to but acoustic, jazz, classical, ambient is wow, clear and realistic. some genre like techno for example  rely on bass and closed soundstage for example, you guessed it, sound just "ok".
other totl will make everything sounds very good. he also have better cable version one. The one I got is the cheapest but it's already pretty good. Also it's 300ohm.

@upsguys88 if price no constraint Cypherus does full custom unique earbuds from $500


----------



## rahmish

What is the price for the Blur?


----------



## ozkan

After spending some time switching between Vido, Monk and Monk plus, my pick is definitely Vido for its more mature natural sound. Monk comes 2nd Monk plus the 3rd.

Vido has better bass quality and quantity than both Monk and Monk plus. It also has a bit more midbass which makes the mids sounding fuller and more natural. The vocals are also more upfront in Vido. Soundstage seems to be a little smaller than Monks. But I could hear more details with Vido which I never heard before with Monks. The mids are just amazing on these!!!

The treble has more presence on both Monks but could be a bit harsh on some songs. It is a bit subdued on Vido but in a good way. The treble while being less present on Vido it never becomes harsh or tiring and details are on par or better than the Monks.

Please bear in mind that these are just my personal opinions through Walnut V2. YMMV


----------



## Makahl

ozkan said:


> After spending some time switching between Vido, Monk and Monk plus, my pick is definitely Vido for its more mature natural sound. Monk comes 2nd Monk plus the 3rd.
> 
> Vido has better bass quality and quantity than both Monk and Monk plus. It also has a bit more midbass which makes the mids sounding fuller and more natural. The vocals are also more upfront in Vido. Soundstage seems to be a little smaller than Monks. But I could hear more details with Vido which I never heard before with Monks. The mids are just amazing on these!!!
> 
> ...



Nice! Is the Vido better than your modded Philips too?


----------



## upsguys88

noknok23 said:


> Imo pretty good if you are looking for what they have to offer. still not fully burned in but what I could gather is that they sound quite different from other totl, They don't try to be all rounder. The quality of bass is sub par. However clarity and soundstage is truly impressive. Depends on the music you listen to but acoustic, jazz, classical, ambient is wow, clear and realistic. some genre like techno for example  rely on bass and closed soundstage for example, you guessed it, sound just "ok".
> other totl will make everything sounds very good. he also have better cable version one. The one I got is the cheapest but it's already pretty good. Also it's 300ohm.
> 
> @upsguys88 if price no constraint Cypherus does full custom unique earbuds from $500



Thoughts on an earbud $200 or less?


----------



## Dark Helmet

Saoshyant said:


> Just bought Svara, DIY PK2 which I will enjoy jokingly comparing to my old DIY PK2 I haven't listened to in years, as well as the Vido.


Did you get these? How do they sound?


----------



## ozkan

Makahl said:


> Nice! Is the Vido better than your modded Philips too?



Yes much better


----------



## weedophile

Ver JJ said:


> Sorry to ask a cliché question but do you guys any recommendation for earbuds that is bright sounding, lack of bass and (cheap)?


Sry i havent been frequenting this thread. But u can try the K's 64ohm with silver cables. No bass and super bright.


----------



## ricesteam

As much as I want to buy all the TOTL earbuds, I only have budget for one.  However, it's a tough choice between the following:

CampFred
Diomnes Lv2
CAX Black
What do you guys think? If you only had enough money for one, which would you get?


----------



## ctaxxxx

ricesteam said:


> As much as I want to buy all the TOTL earbuds, I only have budget for one.  However, it's a tough choice between the following:
> 
> CampFred
> Diomnes Lv2
> ...



I would see first if the bottom two are even available from their respective sellers. Otherwise jump on CampFred or wait for version 2.


----------



## ricesteam

ctaxxxx said:


> I would see first if the bottom two are even available from their respective sellers. Otherwise jump on CampFred or wait for version 2.



You're right. I'm unsure about CAX Black, but for the other two I've reached out to the creators to confirm availability.


----------



## golov17

Surprise, surprise .. really good, did not expect ..


----------



## AkashS04

Ver JJ said:


> No worries.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Benjie and AKG looks good. Are they with Mic? Also, is world.tmall.com  reliable and can ship to US also? How are these earbuds i terms of sound if you have used them before or know any review?


----------



## Ver JJ

weedophile said:


> Sry i havent been frequenting this thread. But u can try the K's 64ohm with silver cables. No bass and super bright.



Already in my to buy list (thank you very much for the info by the way).....I will add it into my 4th batch purchase list as it sounds like what I want..........sadly I just used up all my money to purchase 6 earbuds as my 3rd batch........and I am still waiting for my 2nd batch Boarseman K25 to arrive....hopefully it sits between Ve Monk+ and TY HI-Z.....


----------



## AkashS04

Has anyone used 
*JBL Tempo High-Performance Earbud *


----------



## weedophile

Ver JJ said:


> Already in my to buy list (thank you very much for the info by the way).....I will add it into my 4th batch purchase list as it sounds like what I want..........sadly I just used up all my money to purchase 6 earbuds as my 3rd batch........and I am still waiting for my 2nd batch Boarseman K25 to arrive....hopefully it sits between Ve Monk+ and TY HI-Z.....


Lol its going downhill from here man. I was in the same position but i limit myself to budget buds. The most exp that i gotten was the Yinman 150 which was pretty meh for me.

Gotta squeeze those juice out of every penny!


----------



## golov17

Ver JJ said:


> Already in my to buy list (thank you very much for the info by the way).....I will add it into my 4th batch purchase list as it sounds like what I want..........sadly I just used up all my money to purchase 6 earbuds as my 3rd batch........and I am still waiting for my 2nd batch Boarseman K25 to arrive....hopefully it sits between Ve Monk+ and TY HI-Z.....


 Try Powerbeats DD 
DIY Handmade PHEB01 24ohm Hi-Fi DDM Dual Diaphragm Matrix Dynamic High Fidelity Earphone Earbuds
http://s.aliexpress.com/3M3eeaIj 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## Ver JJ

AkashS04 said:


> Benjie and AKG looks good. Are they with Mic? Also, is world.tmall.com  reliable and can ship to US also? How are these earbuds i terms of sound if you have used them before or know any review?



1) Both of the earbuds that you mentioned just now does not come with mic

2)Erm.....well I am not so sure about shipment to US because I order it through an agent in Malaysia, sorry..........

3)Once again, this is my 3rd batch order so hopefully it will arrive around 3 weeks, as for review articles........ here is the links for 
      AKG K311:       http://headfonics.com/2011/06/akg-k311-an-akg-budget-contender/ 
      Benjie BJ-49:  https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-149 (you have to scroll down a bit for Benjie review)
........well I think that is as many information as I can provide you.


----------



## 93EXCivic (May 22, 2017)

weedophile said:


> Lol its going downhill from here man. I was in the same position but i limit myself to budget buds. The most exp that i gotten was the Yinman 150 which was pretty meh for me.
> 
> Gotta squeeze those juice out of every penny!



I have had the opposite experience. I bought a bunch of budget buds and they are all been either been ok (Yinman 64ohm and T-Music V2) or had a flaw I couldn't get over (T-Music V1, Monk +, Ty Hi-Z 32ohm) or just meh (SHE3800, Qian39). I recently got in the Yinman 150 ohm which I absolutely love and I think blows away all the budget buds I have tried. I have decided I am not going to buy any more budget buds.


----------



## Ver JJ

weedophile said:


> Lol its going downhill from here man. I was in the same position but i limit myself to budget buds. The most exp that i gotten was the Yinman 150 which was pretty meh for me.
> 
> Gotta squeeze those juice out of every penny!



Well yeah, you know Malaysia currency is going downhill too.......also I do own some earplugs/earphones that I really love, like the Ethymotic HF5. The only reason I am searching for budget earbuds right now is because I want something cheap while still having acceptable quality so that I can play with them without tearing my wallet apart, you know since I am still quite young.......why not?


----------



## ricesteam

golov17 said:


> Surprise, surprise .. really good, did not expect ..



I can't wait for some impressions or reviews.


----------



## Ver JJ

93EXCivic said:


> I have had the opposite experience. I bought a bunch of budget buds and they are all been either been ok (Yinman 64ohm and T-Music V2) or had a flaw I couldn't get over (T-Music V1, Monk +, Ty Hi-Z 32ohm) or just meh (SHE3800, Qian39). I recently got in the Yinman 150 ohm which I absolutely love and I think blows away all the budget buds I have tried. I have decided I am not going to buy any more budget buds.



Well, as for me, I kind of like all of them for different music album since they all have different sound signature.


----------



## AkashS04

Are 


golov17 said:


> Try Powerbeats DD
> DIY Handmade PHEB01 24ohm Hi-Fi DDM Dual Diaphragm Matrix Dynamic High Fidelity Earphone Earbuds
> http://s.aliexpress.com/3M3eeaIj
> (from AliExpress Android)


They Dual Driver earbuds? With Mic?


----------



## golov17

Del


----------



## JASru

slappypete said:


> Hey guys. My current favorite earbud in my collection is the RX1, but I haven't yet aquired anything too pricey (my most expensive bud is the ty hi-z 320 ohm). Anyway, I am thinking about snagging a pair of shozy bk's, and I'm wondering how they compare to the RX1. If any of you that own both the RX1 and BK could post some comparissons between the two I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!


 Small improvement in mids, waaaay better bass, waaaay better highs. But overall too flat for my taste. Oh and it has low impedance and normal sensitivity so hissy DAP may ruin it for you, but nothing exeptional like 8 Ohm hybrids and stuff.


----------



## Saoshyant

weedophile said:


> Lol its going downhill from here man. I was in the same position but i limit myself to budget buds. The most exp that i gotten was the Yinman 150 which was pretty meh for me.
> 
> Gotta squeeze those juice out of every penny!




Sometimes staying in budget zone is safest.  Nothing like spending $100+ and being bored with the sound.


----------



## JASru

Saoshyant said:


> Sometimes staying in budget zone is safest.  Nothing like spending $100+ and being bored with the sound.


Sounds like my experience with Stardust. By any means I do not wish to say that Stardust is bad. But it was my first experience with flat sound signature and I didn't appreciate it.


----------



## Saoshyant

JASru said:


> Sounds like my experience with Stardust. By any means I do not wish to say that Stardust is bad. But it was my first experience with flat sound signature and I didn't appreciate it.



I'll avoid it then.  I know for me CampFred is almost a little too polite for my tastes, which is why anything past that makes me wary.


----------



## weedophile

93EXCivic said:


> I have had the opposite experience. I bought a bunch of budget buds and they are all been either been ok (Yinman 64ohm and T-Music V2) or had a flaw I couldn't get over (T-Music V1, Monk +, Ty Hi-Z 32ohm) or just meh (SHE3800, Qian39). I recently got in the Yinman 150 ohm which I absolutely love and I think blows away all the budget buds I have tried. I have decided I am not going to buy any more budget buds.


I dont own any TOTL buds, earphones or headphones hence these budget buds sound super amazing to me. Initially, the first i have gotten is the TY32 which blew me away. Then i got a few others which i found them outperforming each other in one way or another, but then when i did a simple mod (credit to Ozkan, again) to the TY32 and i must say the SQ suited what i like and i have grown used to it.

In the meantime i also got to do some simple cable switch with cables i gotten from AE and after those changes i could tell the difference in the SQ. Even having a better wearing experience like making the J-cabled Sony MDR E808+ to a Y-cabled one makes the feel of the buds so much more enjoyable. PS: Thinking back it is so enjoyable over the process albeit i knew nuts before that.

I guess expensive buds would probably have better tuning and QC but i guess my ears arent cut out for those exp buds.... yet lol. I might get some when a sale comes or something but in the meantime i still have some connectors which i have purchased that i have done nothing with, due to having no DMM to start. (The cables on one side of the cable is both red, which i cant tell which is ground and the other) And also i need to learn some tricks from Mr David on the braiding, but i shall take it a step at a time 

Edit: Anw the Koss KSC75 is probably the sickest thing i have right now though i am out of topic lol



Ver JJ said:


> Well yeah, you know Malaysia currency is going downhill too.......also I do own some earplugs/earphones that I really love, like the Ethymotic HF5. The only reason I am searching for budget earbuds right now is because I want something cheap while still having acceptable quality so that I can play with them without tearing my wallet apart, you know since I am still quite young.......why not?


By any chance are u studying or working in SG?


----------



## Ver JJ (May 22, 2017)

Saoshyant said:


> Sometimes staying in budget zone is safest.  Nothing like spending $100+ and being bored with the sound.





JASru said:


> Sounds like my experience with Stardust. By any means I do not wish to say that Stardust is bad. But it was my first experience with flat sound signature and I didn't appreciate it.



Shure Se215 was the first earphone that I got that cost 120usd (due to shipping fee and taxes) and I hated (unitll today) it due to it sounding very mid forward......sad.....I even bought an upgrade cable by fiio which do make it sound a tad bit brighter but still....that mid......



weedophile said:


> By any chance are u studying or working in SG?



Sorry to let you down, I am currently studying A-level in Malaysia.......and the saddest thing is that my "dream" is to be a Singaporean........suck for Malaysian, no camjam over here...


----------



## weedophile

Ver JJ said:


> Sorry to let you down, I am currently studying A-level in Malaysia.......and the saddest thing is that my "dream" is to be a Singaporean........suck for Malaysian, no camjam over here...


Msia's prospect seems much better for now. There are alot of investments from China and at the rate my leaders are playing the game, i am worried lol

I bet there would be one sooon. I didnt make it this year as i was afraid of being poisoned to get something or anything i want but doesnt need


----------



## Ver JJ

weedophile said:


> Msia's prospect seems much better for now. There are alot of investments from China and at the rate my leaders are playing the game, i am worried lol
> 
> I bet there would be one sooon. I didnt make it this year as i was afraid of being poisoned to get something or anything i want but doesnt need



I see, any store in singapore that sells earbuds....in case that I pay a visit there.


----------



## waynes world (May 22, 2017)

Saoshyant said:


> Sometimes staying in budget zone is safest.  Nothing like spending $100+ and being bored with the sound.



That's a good point. For me, an integral part of the addiction is the dopamine hit from buying and hearing something new. It needs to be done even if I don't get "bored" with what I have! So the budget zone is definitely safest for me lol. And frankly, it results in a lot less disappointment because the budget earbuds sound so good these days. And, it's not devastating when a pair breaks!


----------



## Ver JJ

waynes world said:


> That's a good point. For me, an integral part of the addiction is the dopamine hit from buying and hearing something new. It needs to be done even if I don't get "bored" with what I have! So the budget zone is definitely safest for me lol. And frankly, it results in a lot less disappointment because the budget earbuds sound so good these days. And, it's not devastating when a pair breaks!



I will still cry inside though if any of my earphone breaks except shure se215.......


----------



## ClieOS

Hi-Z HP-314P
PMV B01 Aoede
Sunrise SW-Dragon 2


----------



## Ver JJ

ClieOS said:


> Hi-Z HP-314P
> PMV B01 Aoede
> Sunrise SW-Dragon 2



Checked your profile, how and where did you get so many earphones from in Malaysia..........I find it kind of impossible for me. Also how do you store all of them?


----------



## slappypete

JASru said:


> Small improvement in mids, waaaay better bass, waaaay better highs. But overall too flat for my taste. Oh and it has low impedance and normal sensitivity so hissy DAP may ruin it for you, but nothing exeptional like 8 Ohm hybrids and stuff.



Thanks. RS1-like mids with better bass sounds like something I'll enjoy. I hope so anyway since I ordered the shozy bk yesterday lol. I probably shouldn't have said the RX1 was my favorite of my buds. The TY HI-Z 320 v1 is a better all-rounder. Sometimes I find myself going long stretches using only the RX1 though... really depends on what I've been listening to.


----------



## 93EXCivic

Saoshyant said:


> Sometimes staying in budget zone is safest.  Nothing like spending $100+ and being bored with the sound.



That is my biggest worry. I have no way to try out these earbuds to see if I like them. But I guess at least compared to full size headphones the TOTL earbuds are cheap. 

Trying to decide between QFreds, Campfreds, Yinman 600 ohm or Masya as my first journey into TOTL earbuds in the next month or so.


----------



## AkashS04

93EXCivic said:


> I have had the opposite experience. I bought a bunch of budget buds and they are all been either been ok (Yinman 64ohm and T-Music V2) or had a flaw I couldn't get over (T-Music V1, Monk +, Ty Hi-Z 32ohm) or just meh (SHE3800, Qian39). I recently got in the Yinman 150 ohm which I absolutely love and I think blows away all the budget buds I have tried. I have decided I am not going to buy any more budget buds.


Thanks. Will be difficult for me to buy as no Mic. But they look good.


----------



## ClieOS

Ver JJ said:


> Checked your profile, how and where did you get so many earphones from in Malaysia..........I find it kind of impossible for me. Also how do you store all of them?



Where there is a will, there is a way... and I don't get them in Malaysia, but all over the world.


----------



## AkashS04

Ver JJ said:


> I see, any store in singapore that sells earbuds....in case that I pay a visit there.


You can go to Stereo. They have few earbuds to try. Also, try Popular bookstore. They have as well. I tried Tampines Popular store but I heard that the one which is at Bras Basah Complex is the biggest one so I guess they might have many there as well. Also, try Challengers Musica. They should have few and you can also try Valore. I know only one model from Valore which is EP0008 but that is good one.


----------



## AkashS04

Ver JJ said:


> I see, any store in singapore that sells earbuds....in case that I pay a visit there.


Stereo has two stores. One at Plaza Singapura and one at Harbourfront.


----------



## Ver JJ

ClieOS said:


> Where there is a will, there is a way... and I don't get them in Malaysia, but all over the world.



How long have you been into this interest?


----------



## one1speed

93EXCivic said:


> Trying to decide between QFreds, Campfreds, Yinman 600 ohm or Masya as my first journey into TOTL earbuds in the next month or so.



The only one of those I own / have tried is the Masya and find it's great bang for the buck when looking at higher end buds. I think it sounds really good, very smooth, well extended, etc. The drawback is the unique design, as it may or may not fit terribly well. If you take the time to dial in the fit, I think it's well worth it. Comparing it to the Shozy BK, the sound is just a little fuller, perhaps a hair more liquid sounding. Both have good bass, in my opinion, with the overall sound of the Shozy being just a touch more polite / refined. Not a huge difference, however. And as the Shozy has opened up, the top end is much more similar between the two than it was when they were new.

Good luck in your search.


----------



## Nec3 (May 22, 2017)

Edifier H180 with donut holes is the best in my earbud inventory right now. Beats my SeaHF 150 ohm, VE monk and Qian39. I also think the FiiO EM3 is up there because of its' sound signature that sounds amazing without foam covers, but it suffers from some major diaphragm flexing that requires air suction for it to revert back to normal.


----------



## weedophile

Ver JJ said:


> I see, any store in singapore that sells earbuds....in case that I pay a visit there.



Singaporeans are not buds crazy hence there isnt alot of places that sell buds. If i am not mistaken u can try stereo like akash mentioned, jaben, connect it. I havent been down to the stores yet to avoid myself from spending more.

I mean budget buds might seem budget but it cumulates to a substantial sum over time lol


----------



## chinmie

Nec3 said:


> Edifier H180 with donut holes is the best in my earbud inventory right now.



try vido. i also have the H180 and i agree with you donut foams are the best for it. The vido is similar sounding, but with more "matured" sound.


----------



## chellity

Does anyone have thoughts on bassy earbuds around $100?  I feel like bassy earbuds are just closer to being neutral, compared to something like a studio monitor set up.  So even though I dont listen to bassy music, I find myself seeking a V-shaped sound just to find some sub-bass on the few indie songs that do have some bass.  

I was thinking about pairing an edimun v3 with my cayin n3, since it has a nice warm/smooth sound to help balance the edimun's v shape.  Is the rhodium plug the best option, or would the balanced edimun with an adapter to my DAP be better?  Would a red de'mun or anything else give me some of the sub-bass/neutrality im looking for?


----------



## ozkan (May 22, 2017)

Nec3 said:


> Edifier H180 with donut holes is the best in my earbud inventory right now. Beats my SeaHF 150 ohm, VE monk and Qian39.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Agreed. H180 has boosted bass and lower treble which sometimes can sound artifical and digital. On the other hand Vido is more mature and all-rounder for me


----------



## chinmie

chellity said:


> Does anyone have thoughts on bassy earbuds around $100?  I feel like bassy earbuds are just closer to being neutral, compared to something like a studio monitor set up.  So even though I dont listen to bassy music, I find myself seeking a V-shaped sound just to find some sub-bass on the few indie songs that do have some bass.
> 
> I was thinking about pairing an edimun v3 with my cayin n3, since it has a nice warm/smooth sound to help balance the edimun's v shape.  Is the rhodium plug the best option, or would the balanced edimun with an adapter to my DAP be better?  Would a red de'mun or anything else give me some of the sub-bass/neutrality im looking for?




the red demun won't give you deep sub bass, but to me is my most neutral (and my most favorite)  buds that i owned. with ve monk foams, it has similar characteristics to the Koss ksc75. 
edimun have a more excited bass and highs than the demun. i like them too, just preferred the demun more for my taste

i always use this song to test sub bass response of my earbuds/phones

if i can feel the rumble of the first 10 seconds of the song, than to me it has enough sub bass (the demun and edimun passed the test)


----------



## ClieOS

Ver JJ said:


> How long have you been into this interest?



Tooo long？ 

Have always been interested in earphones (IEM+earbuds) even before I joined Head-fi, and don't forget that I created this thread way back in 2009. However, I am only very actively collecting earbuds for about 3~4 yrs ago (before that it was mostly IEM for me, as there simply ain't that many interesting earbuds worth collecting) and the pace has became rather fast in the past 2 yrs, which of course is when the current mini renaissance of earbuds has began.


----------



## ZerkMeister

Did anyone find the right ear bud(s) for pop/electronic/kpop/jpop, etc music?
Something fun.


----------



## Ver JJ

weedophile said:


> Singaporeans are not buds crazy hence there isnt alot of places that sell buds. If i am not mistaken u can try stereo like akash mentioned, jaben, connect it. I havent been down to the stores yet to avoid myself from spending more.
> 
> I mean budget buds might seem budget but it cumulates to a substantial sum over time lol



True, true....but you know sometimes you really have to spend a little in order to experience something new.



ClieOS said:


> Tooo long？
> 
> Have always been interested in earphones (IEM+earbuds) even before I joined Head-fi, and don't forget that I created this thread way back in 2009. However, I am only very actively collecting earbuds for about 3~4 yrs ago (before that it was mostly IEM for me, as there simply ain't that many interesting earbuds worth collecting) and the pace has became rather fast in the past 2 yrs, which of course is when the current mini renaissance of earbuds has began.



I see. Well, may I also know how do you store all you earbuds since you have tons of them?


----------



## ClieOS

Ver JJ said:


> I see. Well, may I also know how do you store all you earbuds since you have tons of them?



Small earphone hard cases are pretty cheap. Otherwise, small plastic food container works just as well.


----------



## hutzero

For this year, EMX500 is my favorites budget earbud. but I want a little more impact power.
Could you please suggest a better earbud that give the same sounding character.


----------



## Ver JJ

ClieOS said:


> Small earphone hard cases are pretty cheap. Otherwise, small plastic food container works just as well.



I see, so do you use normal "hard wire" to tie the cable together or just roll them up?


----------



## nmatheis

Got a box full of DIY goodies today. Revamp Acoustics Nuansa P1 plus ABNormal Dietris, Crow Audio Raven, and ELi Sabia earbuds from Indonesia and Blur earbuds from Singapore. Nice!



 

Off to listen...


----------



## ClieOS

Ver JJ said:


> I see, so do you use normal "hard wire" to tie the cable together or just roll them up?



I just roll them up with fingers if they are stored in individual case. If multiple pairs in one big box, I usually use velcro straps.


----------



## Ver JJ

ClieOS said:


> I just roll them up with fingers if they are stored in individual case. If multiple pairs in one big box, I usually use velcro straps.



I see, thank you very much.


----------



## Saoshyant

nmatheis said:


> Got a box full of DIY goodies today. Revamp Acoustics Nuansa P1 plus ABNormal Dietris, Crow Audio Raven, and ELi Sabia earbuds from Indonesia and Blur earbuds from Singapore. Nice!
> 
> 
> 
> Off to listen...



Leave some feedback on the Raven when you get a chance


----------



## AkashS04

weedophile said:


> Singaporeans are not buds crazy hence there isnt alot of places that sell buds. If i am not mistaken u can try stereo like Akash mentioned, jaben, connect it. I havent been down to the stores yet to avoid myself from spending more.
> 
> I mean budget buds might seem budget but it cumulates to a substantial sum over time lol


I guess he might find more options to try at Popular Bookshop. Stereo and Jaben might have only costly ones but Popular should have budget ones as well. Just to make it clear, Budget ones in Singapore might start from S$25 or even more


----------



## AkashS04

BTW, I received Vido but with issue. They accidentally sent me without Mic. I reported the same but now waiting for their response before I can use this (if they allow to keep this and still send me new correct one). Also, now I got what is J and Y cable. The cable in without mic is J, which means one cable is short and one is long for left and right speakers. I guess with Mic has same length cable for both speakers. Is it so?


----------



## WayTooCrazy (May 23, 2017)

Anyone use something like this for their earbud collection?
 
https://www.amazon.com/Plano-1354-R...&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=plano+tackle+box&psc=1

Thinking this, and some "Pick -n- Pluck" to hold the DAP and some accessories up top?  Only problem I see... I'm going to need a lot of 'buds to fill those drawers.


----------



## krunchcrispy

JASru said:


> Small improvement in mids, waaaay better bass, waaaay better highs. But overall too flat for my taste. Oh and it has low impedance and normal sensitivity so hissy DAP may ruin it for you, but nothing exeptional like 8 Ohm hybrids and stuff.


I got both the RX1 and the BK's last week.  To me, and all of this is subjective:  RX1 is decent -- tight bass, not overwhelming, good resolution, good soundstage, clear.  However, I find the mids a bit thin and 'tinny', and so I EQ them to sound richer.   The BKs: another league all together in air between the instruments and richer mids; cohesive yet large soundstage.  But, I found it to be VERY BRIGHT.  Yikes, peaky at between 7-10 khz -- still the highs are sweet!. Yep, I eq these as well (thankfully I bought them for my work and not for portable use).  I use thick and think foam covers, plus the eq to tame the brightness. But I love the sweetness, the separation of instruments yet cohesiveness. Bass is there, but not too deep nor too overwhelming, like the RX1.  With the covers and the EQ, I am very very pleased with the BKs.


----------



## krunchcrispy

krunchcrispy said:


> I got both the RX1 and the BK's last week.  To me, and all of this is subjective:  RX1 is decent -- tight bass, not overwhelming, good resolution, good soundstage, clear.  However, I find the mids a bit thin and 'tinny', and so I EQ them to sound richer.   The BKs: another league all together in air between the instruments and richer mids; cohesive yet large soundstage.  But, I found it to be VERY BRIGHT.  Yikes, peaky at between 7-10 khz -- still the highs are sweet!. Yep, I eq these as well (thankfully I bought them for my work and not for portable use).  I use thick and think foam covers, plus the eq to tame the brightness. But I love the sweetness, the separation of instruments yet cohesiveness. Bass is there, but not too deep nor too overwhelming, like the RX1.  With the covers and the EQ, I am very very pleased with the BKs.


And let me add, as I am listening -- I am surprised at the depth of soundstage of the BK.  This depth, over the RX1, adds to the whole enjoyable experience of the BKs.


----------



## Ver JJ

WayTooCrazy said:


> Anyone use something like this for their earbud collection?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Plano-1354-R...&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=plano+tackle+box&psc=1
> 
> Thinking this, and some "Pick -n- Pluck" to hold the DAP and some accessories up top?  Only problem I see... I'm going to need a lot of 'buds to fill those drawers.



Ohh thanks a lot....well that kind of makes my life easy.



Just finish burning in my TY Hi-Z (in my own way)........hmm sound a little better......the peak at upper mid section is slightly recess....finally.


----------



## weedophile

AkashS04 said:


> I guess he might find more options to try at Popular Bookshop. Stereo and Jaben might have only costly ones but Popular should have budget ones as well. Just to make it clear, Budget ones in Singapore might start from S$25 or even more


Nah, that's too exp for me if its a budget bud. I rather wait for sale on AE


----------



## one1speed

krunchcrispy said:


> The BKs: another league all together in air between the instruments and richer mids; cohesive yet large soundstage.  But, I found it to be VERY BRIGHT.  Yikes, peaky at between 7-10 khz -- still the highs are sweet!. Yep, I eq these as well (thankfully I bought them for my work and not for portable use).  I use thick and think foam covers, plus the eq to tame the brightness. But I love the sweetness, the separation of instruments yet cohesiveness. Bass is there, but not too deep nor too overwhelming, like the RX1.  With the covers and the EQ, I am very very pleased with the BKs.



This surprises me, but it may be a difference in source. I don't find the BKs bright at all. Compared to my Grados and Masya, the top end was rolled off, to the point I was worried the buds sounded a little dark, though the treble has come in nicely. I also had to turn off the EQ, as the bass was overwhelming at first. Overall, they are breaking in nicely and respond well to EQ. While the top end has opened up, I'd never say they are bright. Could be a difference in hearing as well. Enjoy.


----------



## AkashS04

weedophile said:


> Nah, that's too exp for me if its a budget bud. I rather wait for sale on AE


Actually Singapore is very expensive City so you might not find anything which is available at $5 or $10. I remember even Remax 302 was also around S$20 or I guess at S$15. But apart from that, I did not find anything in that range. Recently EP0008 from Valore is available at S$14 which is very good price. I could not buy that because that time the price for this was S$39.


----------



## noknok23

one1speed said:


> This surprises me, but it may be a difference in source. I don't find the BKs bright at all. Compared to my Grados and Masya, the top end was rolled off, to the point I was worried the buds sounded a little dark, though the treble has come in nicely. I also had to turn off the EQ, as the bass was overwhelming at first. Overall, they are breaking in nicely and respond well to EQ. While the top end has opened up, I'd never say they are bright. Could be a difference in hearing as well. Enjoy.


@Fabi was saying they are very transparent to the source, that could explain your different experiences;


----------



## krunchcrispy

noknok23 said:


> @Fabi was saying they are very transparent to the source, that could explain your different experiences;


True, it could be the source.  I am at an HP elitedesk running foobar, with a modi dac and an Objective2 amp. and they certainly are bright to me (whereas my FLC8s, FLARE r2a's are not here at work ). I will try them at home tonight on my ipod classic 5thG with a Cayin C5 -- very warm combo.  Still, this shows that the BK's are a very good earbud technically and need to be matched appropriately.


----------



## Makahl

nmatheis said:


> Got a box full of DIY goodies today. Revamp Acoustics Nuansa P1 plus ABNormal Dietris, Crow Audio Raven, and ELi Sabia earbuds from Indonesia and Blur earbuds from Singapore. Nice!
> 
> 
> 
> Off to listen...



Have you received the MAG7 earbud as well? I remember you talking about that in the past.


----------



## weedophile

Finally did the jack replacement for the Qian39! Idk if its a placebo effect but the rhodium jack (if it is real rhodium, got it off taobao) seem to make the sound abit clearer.

Pretty good so far i must say.


----------



## flexy321 (May 23, 2017)

Ok guys, just got my "Philips" SHE3800 from Fasttech, took long enough to ship.

I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT I HEAR!

These $3.21 things make even my old SONY MDR-E818 sound "bad" (which I otherwise considered "quite good"). I didn't even expect these buds come close to the SONY, but they beat it.. fantastic! Very powerful and round bass which I love and also otherwise just fantastic! Didn't do much testing yet, am not really an "audiophile" anyway...but still! Superb!

Now..I still have VE Monks coming as well...will see...but those buds imho will be hard to beat!


----------



## weedophile

flexy321 said:


> Ok guys, just got my "Philips" SHE3800 from Fasttech, took long enough to ship.
> 
> I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT I HEAR!
> 
> ...


The bass is freaking everywhere!


----------



## Fabi

krunchcrispy said:


> True, it could be the source.  I am at an HP elitedesk running foobar, with a modi dac and an Objective2 amp. and they certainly are bright to me (whereas my FLC8s, FLARE r2a's are not here at work ). I will try them at home tonight on my ipod classic 5thG with a Cayin C5 -- very warm combo.  Still, this shows that the BK's are a very good earbud technically and need to be matched appropriately.


From what I have experienced, on differents sources with different sound sig, BK sound basically like the source signature with a tiny hint of warmth and energy.  
But on each source (with no emphasis on high mids), I need to add a few dB on high mids to have a more natural and coherent midrange to treble transition, otherwise treble sounds unnaturally peaky and comes out too suddenly, cause of the slightly recessed high mids. IMHO
My 1 cent, yes my wallet is empty..


----------



## rkw

ClieOS said:


> Have it for about a week now. Overall a very good and balanced sounding earbud. Not quite a champion level yet, but it is easily a upper great / contender level. Quite an impressive feat for PMV's first earbud.





golov17 said:


> Surprise, surprise .. really good, did not expect ..


Received my PMV Aoede a few days ago and have been enjoying it very much. High level of performance for $30-$35 with balanced, natural sound. The metal anodized body and sturdy construction gives it a more premium look and feel than generic plastic shells.


----------



## ATi7500

flexy321 said:


> Ok guys, just got my "Philips" SHE3800 from Fasttech, took long enough to ship.
> 
> I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT I HEAR!
> 
> ...


I love she3800 aswell, but Qian25 beats it


----------



## Nec3

ozkan said:


> Agreed. H180 has boosted bass and lower treble which sometimes can sound artifical and digital. On the other hand Vido is more mature and all-rounder for me



I use Sennheiser HD600's as my primary headphone, so the boosted bass and lower treble sits well for my ears. The one thing I like about slightly recessed treble in cheap earbuds is that it doesn't need to be refined since it's recessed.


----------



## Danneq

Wow! A lot has happened here in the last week. I miss the feature from the old design of Head fi where you could see how many new posts there was in a thread you were following.
I figured no one was posting because of the new design of the forum but it has been quite busy here.

No new earbuds for me since I got Shozy Stardust. Really love them. My current top 5 would probably be:
1. CAX Black
2. Diomnes Lv2
3. CampFred
4. Stardust
5. Blox TM7

Still, the two I keep coming back to are CampFred and Stardust. CF is more laid back and has got amazing sub bass for an earbud and Stardust has got a deep soundstage with excellent instrument separation. I might go for Vido and those DIY PK2 on Aliexpress. Other than that, I feel content with what I have. In the last 2 months I have sold off some vintage DAPs and bought one iBasso R10 (Japanese version of DX100) and also a second hand Questyle QP1R. Those two really make my earbuds sing. Anyway, not much money for earbuds right now...


----------



## ricesteam

Danneq said:


> Wow! A lot has happened here in the last week. I miss the feature from the old design of Head fi where you could see how many new posts there was in a thread you were following.
> I figured no one was posting because of the new design of the forum but it has been quite busy here.
> 
> No new earbuds for me since I got Shozy Stardust. Really love them. My current top 5 would probably be:
> ...



Nice collection! I'm jelly!

Why is it DIY PK2? Same sound signature and quality as the Yuin PK2? The Yuin PK2 was my entry to the earbud world.  I was still in junior in highschool back then so I had no income, but I spent whatever I saved up to buy a pair.  My mind is blown if these DIY pk2 sound the same or better at the fraction the cost.


----------



## Danneq

I think you can get them from the Nice HCK store on Aliexpress...


----------



## silverfishla (May 23, 2017)

Here's my take on the Nice HCK DIY PK2....
I have two other pair of PK DIY buds from **** and somewhere else.  Those were DIY PK1 and were only okay.  Although resolving, not very exciting at all.  If you come across those, I would skip on them.
The DIY PK2 from Nice are way more energetic.   They have a nice wide soundstage and good separation.  The mids where the vocals are, are a tiny bit "flat" in comparison to the other ends of the spectrum.  Not by much, but still.  I've got about 30 hrs on them, and they have improved from when I first got them.  If they clean up a bit in the vocals I'd be happy to recommend them.  They just might, they are on the edge...
They are made nicely.


----------



## ClieOS

Danneq said:


> ...
> Still, the two I keep coming back to are CampFred and Stardust. CF is more laid back and has got amazing sub bass for an earbud and Stardust has got a deep soundstage with excellent instrument separation. I might go for Vido and those DIY PK2 on Aliexpress. Other than that, I feel content with what I have. In the last 2 months I have sold off some vintage DAPs and bought one iBasso R10 (Japanese version of DX100) and also a second hand Questyle QP1R. Those two really make my earbuds sing. Anyway, not much money for earbuds right now...



Waiting for my preorder limited edition Cygnus for over 3 weeks now. Really wonder whether Shozy can outdo themselves again consider how good StarDust is.


----------



## JASru

Danneq said:


> Wow! A lot has happened here in the last week. I miss the feature from the old design of Head fi where you could see how many new posts there was in a thread you were following.
> I figured no one was posting because of the new design of the forum but it has been quite busy here.
> 
> No new earbuds for me since I got Shozy Stardust. Really love them. My current top 5 would probably be:
> ...


 How would you compare Diomnes to Stardust? As it is above I presume you find it better?


----------



## Danneq (May 24, 2017)

JASru said:


> How would you compare Diomnes to Stardust? As it is above I presume you find it better?



Technically better, yes. But I prefer the more neutral sound of Stardust to the slightly more "colored" sound of Diomnes Lv2. Imagine a mix between Sennheiser MX985 and Red De'mun but taken to a higher level technically, and you will have Diomnes Lv2. Stardust is not too far away from the other 3, but closer to the more neutral sound of MX985 than the more fun sound of Red De'mun.

I have to say that Diomnes Lv2 and Stardust have the deepest soundstages of the earbuds I currently own (well, perhaps excluding the vintage Aiwa HP D9).

Edit: so I base my earbud ranking on technical ability and not on preference. I do think that CAX Black and Diomnes Lv2 are technically better than CampFred and Stardust, but I prefer the sound signatures of the latter two.


----------



## KookaBurrra

NiceHCK Vido, VE Monk+ BT-Mod, TY Hi-Z HP-32 2.0, Quian25, Qian39 / Edifier H180 / Awei ES10, ... Too much earbuds because of you, guys !! 

I hesitate to buy "Faaeal" 32 or 64 Ohms, what do you thing of it (after looking to my list of earbuds) ? Thanks.


----------



## ozkan

KookaBurrra said:


> NiceHCK Vido, VE Monk+ BT-Mod, TY Hi-Z HP-32 2.0, Quian25, Qian39 / Edifier H180 / Awei ES10, ... Too much earbuds because of you, guys !!
> 
> I hesitate to buy "Faaeal" 32 or 64 Ohms, what do you thing of it (after looking to my list of earbuds) ? Thanks.



I think there is no need to buy another budget earbud. Enjoy them first


----------



## rahmish

KookaBurrra said:


> NiceHCK Vido, VE Monk+ BT-Mod, TY Hi-Z HP-32 2.0, Quian25, Qian39 / Edifier H180 / Awei ES10, ... Too much earbuds because of you, guys !!
> 
> I hesitate to buy "Faaeal" 32 or 64 Ohms, what do you thing of it (after looking to my list of earbuds) ? Thanks.


Faaeal 64 all day,I have them for about a month and really like them! Thinking to buy silver cable version...


----------



## KookaBurrra (May 24, 2017)

ozkan said:


> I think there is no need to buy another budget earbud. Enjoy them first



Not false, not false...  And I have plenty of headphones, too ... But the pleasure of discovery, what do we do? 





rahmish said:


> Faaeal 64 all day,I have them for about a month and really like them! Thinking to buy silver cable version...



No problem with high ? (I do not support harsh in high frequency).


----------



## ozkan

KookaBurrra said:


> Not false, not false...  And I have plenty of headphones, too ... But the pleasure of discovery, what do we do?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Why don't you retune them to your liking first? Check DIY Earbuds thread  

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/page-26


----------



## KookaBurrra (May 24, 2017)

@ozkan : thanks for suggestion.
I like the earbuds of my collection (not all, I admit), no problem (and I have done "BT Mod" on the Monk Plus).
I just want to discover more good earbuds, for fun, nothing else. 

In this topic, I don't find a lot of information and reviews about the *Faaeal* earbuds (32 & 64 ohm), so I ask about us... to know how they sound and if they could matches to my personal taste.


----------



## Ver JJ

Me too, just want to pass my boring day with something fun.......


----------



## rahmish

KookaBurrra said:


> Not false, not false...  And I have plenty of headphones, too ... But the pleasure of discovery, what do we do?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No problems, at my taste, sounds better than monk+, one of my favorites ( k's 300 favorite one)


----------



## flexy321 (May 24, 2017)

Oh I totally forgot about the Ozkan mod! Have one spare SHE3800 which is waiting for it.
(Just need to see where to get Blu Tack here in this small town.)

Did you just rip some cotton off a Q-Tip or similar and then arranged it around the driver with pliers or something?

Edit: The SHE3800 are indeed so bassy (for me not sure whether this is a bad thing or a good thing since I love it) that it was the first time I actually had to turn bass some db down in my EQ. I never had to do this before  
(Then again I could never enjoy buds with a flat EQ curve. Or maybe I have just a very absurd hearing preference . But heck yeah, bass they sure deliver!)


----------



## ClieOS

ClieOS said:


> Waiting for my preorder limited edition Cygnus for over 3 weeks now. Really wonder whether Shozy can outdo themselves again consider how good StarDust is.



Speak of the devil, my limited edition Cygnus was just shipped


----------



## CharlesRievone

KookaBurrra said:


> In this topic, I don't find a lot of information and reviews about the *Faaeal* earbuds (32 & 64 ohm), so I ask about us... to know how they sound and if they could matches to my personal taste.



I had the FAAEAL 64 (transparent housing, black cables). It has a neutral sound signature, similar to Monk+, but a tad brighter than the Monk. Never really had the chance to listen to it in depth though since I already sold it to a friend.


----------



## ricesteam

ClieOS said:


> Speak of the devil, my limited edition Cygnus was just shipped



Nice! Can't wait for your impressions.


----------



## krunchcrispy

Fabi said:


> From what I have experienced, on differents sources with different sound sig, BK sound basically like the source signature with a tiny hint of warmth and energy.
> But on each source (with no emphasis on high mids), I need to add a few dB on high mids to have a more natural and coherent midrange to treble transition, otherwise treble sounds unnaturally peaky and comes out too suddenly, cause of the slightly recessed high mids. IMHO
> My 1 cent, yes my wallet is empty..


Yes! You explain what I am hearing very well. That's it. Can be 'peaky', but I reduce the treble a little. I found that on my portable set up, its still a bit bright, but not so much as on the desk top. Thanks Fabi.  But I really do love the sweetness of the higher frequencies on teh BK, and the depth, so very enjoyable


----------



## Saoshyant

@ClieOS Look forward to your impressions!  Currently getting some eartime with Crow Audio's Raven, which I'm really liking on Shanling M1.


----------



## AkashS04

ATi7500 said:


> I love she3800 aswell, but Qian25 beats it


Qian25 has more warm and bassy sound than SHE3800? One of the sepakers of my SHE3800 broken so they are useless for me  But I liked them except very long cable.


----------



## golov17 (May 24, 2017)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072FPZH8Q

 
$13.99，amazing price for FB、head-fi，and Russian friends！
http://s.aliexpress.com/qyieYbqA


----------



## complete

22.65 usd price?
https://tr.aliexpress.com/item/2017...068420.html?shortkey=qyieYbqA&addresstype=600


----------



## flexy321

AkashS04 said:


> Qian25 has more warm and bassy sound than SHE3800? One of the sepakers of my SHE3800 broken so they are useless for me  But I liked them except very long cable.



Ok...confirmation that I am not the only one thinking the cables are just a tad too long. Yes they are.


----------



## rahmish

golov17 said:


> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072FPZH8Q
> 
> $13.99，amazing price for FB、head-fi，and Russian friends！
> http://s.aliexpress.com/qyieYbqA


Should I need to write a message to him saying Hi-fi? Them looks promising


----------



## golov17

rahmish said:


> Should I need to write a message to him saying Hi-fi? Them looks promising


----------



## golov17

complete said:


> 22.65 usd price?
> https://tr.aliexpress.com/item/2017...068420.html?shortkey=qyieYbqA&addresstype=600


----------



## ricesteam

golov17 said:


> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072FPZH8Q
> 
> $13.99，amazing price for FB、head-fi，and Russian friends！
> http://s.aliexpress.com/qyieYbqA



Hmm, these look interesting. Any other details?


----------



## JASru

Danneq said:


> Technically better, yes. But I prefer the more neutral sound of Stardust to the slightly more "colored" sound of Diomnes Lv2. Imagine a mix between Sennheiser MX985 and Red De'mun but taken to a higher level technically, and you will have Diomnes Lv2. Stardust is not too far away from the other 3, but closer to the more neutral sound of MX985 than the more fun sound of Red De'mun.
> 
> I have to say that Diomnes Lv2 and Stardust have the deepest soundstages of the earbuds I currently own (well, perhaps excluding the vintage Aiwa HP D9).
> 
> Edit: so I base my earbud ranking on technical ability and not on preference. I do think that CAX Black and Diomnes Lv2 are technically better than CampFred and Stardust, but I prefer the sound signatures of the latter two.


 Thanks. Well I hope that the monk that I bought is genuine and arrives safely, cuz judging by you description this is what I look for - mildly colored, spatious and  not lacking details.


----------



## 93EXCivic

Danneq said:


> Wow! A lot has happened here in the last week. I miss the feature from the old design of Head fi where you could see how many new posts there was in a thread you were following.
> I figured no one was posting because of the new design of the forum but it has been quite busy here.
> 
> No new earbuds for me since I got Shozy Stardust. Really love them. My current top 5 would probably be:
> ...



Is this the Diomnes you have? https://www.tokopedia.com/abnormal-...c=shop-product_page=1_ob=11_q=_catid=565_po=4 Or are they something different? 

That would about $60 right?


----------



## Danneq (May 24, 2017)

93EXCivic said:


> Is this the Diomnes you have? https://www.tokopedia.com/abnormal-...c=shop-product_page=1_ob=11_q=_catid=565_po=4 Or are they something different?
> 
> That would about $60 right?



There were three types of Diomnes: Standard for $70 (I think), Lv1 for $100 (I think) and Lv2 for $165. Each version used better cables. I picked Lv2 with eidolic plug (standard). That made it $180 in total excluding shipping.

When it comes to detail, instrument separation and the size of the soundstage it can compete with, and beat, just about all other TOTL earbuds I have heard. CAX Black has got a smaller soundstage, but it is much more neutral and natural sounding while Diomnes Lv2 is a bit more colored sounding (less neutral and more "fun" sounding) with a slight focus on upper mids and highs.

EDIT: I use past tense since Diomnes isn't really made any more. It uses original VE Monk drivers and since they are discontinued they can be difficult to find. If you find a pair of original Monk I would recommend to send them to ABnormal and get a Diomnes Lv2. I do not have any problem with the fact that a $180 pair of earbuds uses drivers from a $5 earbud. I used to own the original Monk and Diomnes Lv2 really is light years better.


----------



## Fabi

Call me Mini @Danneq


----------



## ricesteam

Fabi said:


> Call me Mini @Danneq



How would you rank those ones?


----------



## Danneq

Fabi said:


> Call me Mini @Danneq



Or perhaps "balanced Danneq"?


----------



## upsguys88

Thoughts on these?
*'Bluemonk'*
*http://www.rholupat.com/bluemonk.html*


----------



## KookaBurrra

KookaBurrra said:


> NiceHCK Vido, VE Monk+ BT-Mod, TY Hi-Z HP-32 2.0, Quian25, Qian39 / Edifier H180 / Awei ES10, ... Too much earbuds because of you, guys !!
> I hesitate to buy "Faaeal" 32 or 64 Ohms, what do you thing of it (after looking to my list of earbuds) ? Thanks.



Finally, after a big session of reading in the HF treads : I bought some budget earbuds to challenge the VE Monk Plus : Rymall RY4S, Faaeal 32, Philips SHE3800, Sony MDR-E808+.
Just for few bucks, maybe 18$. Fantastic, thanks Head-Fi !


----------



## weedophile

KookaBurrra said:


> Finally, after a big session of reading in the HF treads : I bought some budget earbuds to challenge the VE Monk Plus : Rymall RY4S, Faaeal 32, Philips SHE3800, Sony MDR-E808+.
> Just for few bucks, maybe 18$. Fantastic, thanks Head-Fi !


I would probably throw in a Vido too lol


----------



## WayTooCrazy

I know we talked about storage/etc earlier on... but I came across these, which may be of use to some people...
https://www.amazon.com/DotBox-Mediu...d=1495712423&sr=1-124&keywords=bead+container
 
I found something similar in my house that works for my VE Zen Black...Now looking for the exact size to buy a few more.


----------



## Ver JJ

WayTooCrazy said:


> I know we talked about storage/etc earlier on... but I came across these, which may be of use to some people...
> https://www.amazon.com/DotBox-Mediu...d=1495712423&sr=1-124&keywords=bead+container
> 
> I found something similar in my house that works for my VE Zen Black...Now looking for the exact size to buy a few more.



Ahh, thank you so much for the info.....well this will make my future easier as I don't have to search for idea online and ended up getting lots of crap.....anyways thanks a lot.


----------



## Fabi

Danneq said:


> Or perhaps "balanced Danneq"?


Yes Dadnneq haha
Actually I don't own a balanced source currently, this is for the future and I have the possibility to try balanced sources.

I had the chance to try them with some great DAPs recently.
I loved Campfred on DX200 balanced, Stardust on WM1Z balanced and Diomnes Lv2 on Hifiman 901S Minibox SE. All amazing pairing!
Since I find my current DAP+amp setup on SE still competitive, close to these big boys on balanced but of course not better, I feel relieved I don't need a new DAP yet..


----------



## nmatheis

Saoshyant said:


> @ClieOS Look forward to your impressions!  Currently getting some eartime with Crow Audio's Raven, which I'm really liking on Shanling M1.



I like how Raven sound, but dat cable...

The use of such stiff cables past the y-splitter isn't convenient. If I move my head around, the buds easily shift out of position and I lost bass response. Foamies don't help. Might have to try hooks...


----------



## Ira Delphic

I swore off any more budget earbuds, yet I have *four* more on the way!


*2017 New NICEHCK DIY PK2 Earbud *- I had the silver cable version for a week (looks sort of like Shozy Cygnus), liked it very much, but gifted it. This time the black cable version. This is a keeper!
***** EPK1* - I read some good things about it. What the heck!
*Yincrow X6* - I don't have any earbuds with emphasis on bass. The build quality appears to be good for the price. Similar sound signature to Vido, but better build quality...
*2017 New NICEHCK EB200* - a leap of faith since untested, not reviewed. In NICEHCK we trust? 200Ohm for that price and Jim's description...too hard to pass up.

My plan is to listen to them and sell a few on the buy sell forum. I only need so many earbuds in my stable. We'll see...


----------



## AkashS04

Did anyone buy these: https://goo.gl/nzroHQ


----------



## Fabi

nmatheis said:


> I like how Raven sound, but dat cable...
> 
> The use of such stiff cables past the y-splitter isn't convenient. If I move my head around, the buds easily shift out of position and I lost bass response. Foamies don't help. Might have to try hooks...


I own Raven for some time now.
I got a trick for this.
Unbraid the upper part of the cable.
When you wear them, adjust the chin adjuster one inch below your chin. It works well for me. I experienced the same thing as you at the beginning..
Also with time, the cable becomes slightly less stiff when rolling it often around your fingers for storage.


----------



## ClieOS

nmatheis said:


> I like how Raven sound, but dat cable...
> 
> The use of such stiff cables past the y-splitter isn't convenient. If I move my head around, the buds easily shift out of position and I lost bass response. Foamies don't help. Might have to try hooks...



That's the exact reason why I don't want to invest into some of these DIY earbuds regardless of how good they sound. I moved a lot when listening to music and those stiff cable just won't work for me.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

ClieOS said:


> That's the exact reason why I don't want to invest into some of these DIY earbuds regardless of how good they sound. I moved a lot when listening to music and those stiff cable just won't work for me.



Stay away from Zen 2.0 Black Edition then. Quite stiff cables.


----------



## Blueshound24 (May 25, 2017)

Really impressed with the NICEHCK DIY PK2, it kinda reminds me of the AH-D7000.
And thanks to @DBaldock9  for the recommendation for Celebrat C7, (Mantis C7). Very nice, balanced sig, with a huge soundstage as well.


----------



## Saoshyant

@nmatheis at least it's not as stiff as red demun.


----------



## ClieOS

WayTooCrazy said:


> Stay away from Zen 2.0 Black Edition then. Quite stiff cables.



Plenty more I'll stay away from, unfortunately.


----------



## nmatheis

Fabi said:


> I own Raven for some time now.
> I got a trick for this.
> Unbraid the upper part of the cable.
> When you wear them, adjust the chin adjuster one inch below your chin. It works well for me. I experienced the same thing as you at the beginning..
> Also with time, the cable becomes slightly less stiff when rolling it often around your fingers for storage.



Not sure I understand how to unread it. Yours certainly looks braided still. An I missing something?




ClieOS said:


> That's the exact reason why I don't want to invest into some of these DIY earbuds regardless of how good they sound. I moved a lot when listening to music and those stiff cable just won't work for me.



Yup, I can see where you're coming from, bro...




Saoshyant said:


> @nmatheis at least it's not as stiff as red demun.



True, but still stiffer than it needs to be...


----------



## upsguys88

oopeteroo said:


> As people says the cygnus have one of the best mids...I'm wondering how it compare to hd650 ?





ClieOS said:


> Plenty more I'll stay away from, unfortunately.



Ok, @ClieOS I'm new to these earbuds, and love the airy sound without having to shove pieces of plastic into my ear canals. What are your favorite TOTL earbuds that have a free and easy cable?


----------



## ctaxxxx

ClieOS said:


> That's the exact reason why I don't want to invest into some of these DIY earbuds regardless of how good they sound. I moved a lot when listening to music and those stiff cable just won't work for me.



The chin strap usually helps with me, especially for Diomnes. Prevents them from moving out, which was a big problem I also had with the Red Demun. Those didn't have one, and the shell was too smooth, so the foams kept sliding off.


----------



## Ver JJ

WayTooCrazy said:


> Stay away from Zen 2.0 Black Edition then. Quite stiff cables.





Saoshyant said:


> @nmatheis at least it's not as stiff as red demun.



TY HI-Z HP-32s cable is the stiffest for me.....and it sucks because I have to bend it the other way around before putting it "into" my ears if not the cable is going rub against my face (annoying af)....


----------



## nmatheis

Ver JJ said:


> TY HI-Z HP-32s cable is the stiffest for me.....and it sucks because I have to bend it the other way around before putting it "into" my ears if not the cable is going rub against my face (annoying af)....



Huh.  I've got regular TY Hi-Z 32ohm, and its cable is great. So is the cable on my TY Hi-Z 400ohm.


----------



## Ver JJ

nmatheis said:


> Huh.  I've got regular TY Hi-Z 32ohm, and its cable is great. So is the cable on my TY Hi-Z 400ohm.



Hmm interesting.....well personal opinion....you know.


----------



## nmatheis

Ver JJ said:


> Hmm interesting.....well personal opinion....you know.



No, that's not what I meant. I was just surprised that they'd use a stiff cable for the SPC cable version when the normal version has a fairly supple cable. That's all.


----------



## Saoshyant

upsguys88 said:


> Ok, @ClieOS I'm new to these earbuds, and love the airy sound without having to shove pieces of plastic into my ear canals. What are your favorite TOTL earbuds that have a free and easy cable?





nmatheis said:


> Huh.  I've got regular TY Hi-Z 32ohm, and its cable is great. So is the cable on my TY Hi-Z 400ohm.



If you two don't mind my suggestion, one of my favorite earbuds for lack of cable stiffness and overall quality of sound is CampFred.  It's stiffness is about on par with a wet noodle, maybe even less so.


----------



## nmatheis

Saoshyant said:


> If you two don't mind my suggestion, one of my favorite earbuds for lack of cable stiffness and overall quality of sound is CampFred.  It's stiffness is about on par with a wet noodle, maybe even less so.



CampFred cable is pretty supple. Great buds, too!

TY Hi-Z 400ohm cable is even more so, but it is susceptible to the dreaded greening


----------



## Saoshyant

nmatheis said:


> CampFred cable is pretty supple. Great buds, too!
> 
> TY Hi-Z 400ohm cable is even more so, but it is susceptible to the dreaded greening



Same with CampFred, mine looks like it's starting to green.  Although I don't think either will reach the emerald my Zen 1 has.


----------



## nmatheis

Saoshyant said:


> Same with CampFred, mine looks like it's starting to green.  Although I don't think either will reach the emerald my Zen 1 has.



Lol, my CampFred look pristine so far. Sorry happy with those buds even though they were pricey


----------



## Ver JJ

nmatheis said:


> No, that's not what I meant. I was just surprised that they'd use a stiff cable for the SPC cable version when the normal version has a fairly supple cable. That's all.



Ahh, sorry for the misleading sentence......



Saoshyant said:


> If you two don't mind my suggestion, one of my favorite earbuds for lack of cable stiffness and overall quality of sound is CampFred.  It's stiffness is about on par with a wet noodle, maybe even less so.



I see, thank you very much. I will check it out later.


----------



## ClieOS

upsguys88 said:


> Ok, @ClieOS I'm new to these earbuds, and love the airy sound without having to shove pieces of plastic into my ear canals. What are your favorite TOTL earbuds that have a free and easy cable?



My top choices for really airy sound will be: Rose Tech Mojito > MusicMaker / Toneking TY2 > Moondrop VX Pro.



ctaxxxx said:


> The chin strap usually helps with me, especially for Diomnes. Prevents them from moving out, which was a big problem I also had with the Red Demun. Those didn't have one, and the shell was too smooth, so the foams kept sliding off.



The truth is, if I have to use chin slider on earbuds, I might as well use IEM instead.


----------



## Fabi

nmatheis said:


> Not sure I understand how to unread it. Yours certainly looks braided still. An I missing something?


Sorry, maybe it's not the right word. 
On the upper naked part of the cable, when I received them, it was twisted, so l untwist the cable in order to get the L and R the most straight and parallel as possible like on the picture. +chin adjuster
I remember ootb, it was a pain in the arse, even the upper part was rigid, after rolling it around my fingers everyday, it is better now. 
Shells don't fall off my ears easily, but you have to be patient...


----------



## upsguys88

ClieOS said:


> My top choices for really airy sound will be: Rose Tech Mojito > MusicMaker / Toneking TY2 > Moondrop VX Pro.
> 
> 
> 
> The truth is, if I have to use chin slider on earbuds, I might as well use IEM instead.



I'm curious with the type of shape. I have monks and have to use the little hooks to have them fit, are the housing for the mojitos and TY2 a lot larger than the monk earbuds?


----------



## golov17

upsguys88 said:


> I'm curious with the type of shape. I have monks and have to use the little hooks to have them fit, are the housing for the mojitos and TY2 a lot larger than the monk earbuds?


They are smaller


----------



## ClieOS (May 26, 2017)

upsguys88 said:


> I'm curious with the type of shape. I have monks and have to use the little hooks to have them fit, are the housing for the mojitos and TY2 a lot larger than the monk earbuds?



Yes and no. No in the sense that the actual face plate that go into the outer ears ain't bigger on Mojito or TY2, but yes in the sense that both Mojito and TY2 has 'unusual' earpieces design and you really can't judge them using any other earbud. There are reports from other that can't get a good seal from either yet I have no problem at all. I do however recommend that you need to get some rubber ring and foam pad for Mojito and donut pad forTY2, if you get either of them.


----------



## Ira Delphic

ClieOS said:


> Yes and no. No in the sense that the actual face plate that go into the outer ears ain't bigger on Mojito or TY2, but yes in the sense that both Mojito and TY2 has 'unusual' earpieces design and you really can't judge them using any other earbud. *There are reports from other that can't get a good seal from either *yet I have no problem at all. I do however recommend that you need to get some rubber ring and foam pad for Mojito and donut pad forTY2.



IMO "Good seal" and earbuds are an oxymoron. The only thing I care about regarding fit is if the earbuds stay in my ear without falling out. For the PT15 I use earhooks, but not an ideal solution.


----------



## jogawag (Mar 30, 2018)

.


----------



## jogawag (Aug 22, 2017)

Hi-Z HP-314P was added in ear-buds-round-up list by ClieOS at 2017/05/22.
I highly recommend Hi-Z HP-314P (="TY HI-Z AWK-314P", https://aliexpress.com/item//32810782836.html).
It has exactly AKG sound, and it exceeds the sound quality of AKG N20 about sub bass.
So, it has more than ten times cost performance!
Edit:Using with Monk Plus foams will be much better.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Would anyone be interested in seeing a comparison of TOTL buds to an HD 800 S (or the new MrSpeakers ÆON)? Got the 800 S recently and thought it would be interesting to see how close they actually compare. I won't be receiving CAX Black until for another 2-3 weeks though, since they are being shipped with CampFred 2 (just announced) now to save on shipping.


----------



## nmatheis

Ira Delphic said:


> IMO "Good seal" and earbuds are an oxymoron. The only thing I care about regarding fit is if the earbuds stay in my ear without falling out. For the PT15 I use earhooks, but not an ideal solution.



You don't snug the buds up to your ear canal? If you don't do that, how can you get ideal bass response? Merely plopping buds loosely in your ear won't provide ideal sound in my opinion. Open to your thoughts on it, though...


----------



## WayTooCrazy

I use the "wings" for earbuds to help "push" them into their optimal locations.


----------



## upsguys88

ctaxxxx said:


> Would anyone be interested in seeing a comparison of TOTL buds to an HD 800 S (or the new MrSpeakers ÆON)? Got the 800 S recently and thought it would be interesting to see how close they actually compare. I won't be receiving CAX Black until for another 2-3 weeks though, since they are being shipped with CampFred 2 (just announced) now to save on shipping.


YES!! Also, I'm interested in CampFred 2 review as well!


----------



## golov17

With mic?

https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=a21ct.8237742.nowitems.31&id=550223255553


----------



## DBaldock9

I've now got a set of TY Hi-Z 650, and without any EQ applied, using JRiver MC22 to play FLAC files of my CDs through my iFi Micro iDSD - the Midrange and Treble seem to be well balanced, but there's just about too much Bass.    It's very good, clear, and detailed Bass, but I'm going to have to figure out how to set up an EQ in MC22, to reduce the Bass levels a bit.


----------



## nmatheis

DBaldock9 said:


> I've now got a set of TY Hi-Z 650, and without any EQ applied, using JRiver MC22 to play FLAC files of my CDs through my iFi Micro iDSD - the Midrange and Treble seem to be well balanced, but there's just about too much Bass.    It's very good, clear, and detailed Bass, but I'm going to have to figure out how to set up an EQ in MC22, to reduce the Bass levels a bit.



With iDSD's Bass Boost off? 

That actually makes me more interested in these. I've read that they're neutral, which people often use to describe bass-shy, treble-happy sound signature. Sounds like these are more on the warm side of neutral. Nice


----------



## DBaldock9

nmatheis said:


> With iDSD's Bass Boost off?
> 
> That actually makes me more interested in these. I've read that they're neutral, which people often use to describe bass-shy, treble-happy sound signature. Sounds like these are more on the warm side of neutral. Nice



XBass & 3D are both switched Off on the iDSD.


----------



## nmatheis

Stuff on the way from Phobia Audio in Indonesia




 
Some sweet-looking bespoke earbuds



 
And a couple beautiful interconnects


----------



## DBaldock9

Here's something interesting - it's an earbud with a MMCX connector, for $62.63.  This one has the original 150Ω red film PK1 driver, but you have to provide your own MMCX cable.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/PK1...iginal-red-film-without-wire/32370417131.html


----------



## numon

hi
 i bought  rose masya carbon few weeks ago.but  i sold  because of bright  sound.i used to listen  on high  volume level on before in canal phones.on higer volumes rose masya is very bright for me  and fatiguing for  me. and i listen long term.so i need new earphone but i want  detachable earbuds  so i have 2 alternatives.i have 2 in my list:
1 DaiK DK-Song   2  Svara-L 
  clios said about svara l:relaxing,musical, wide sound stage and contender level earbud) so this  look for my likes  but  there is a wearing problem for me. do i have to  wear  this  svara l  as in below photo??:look default wear .but question is:i use earbud with earhook  so if i wear this svara l downstyle(connection part will be at downside) with  hook  ,will be problem?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct...Npu2X-4VIK0k-x2GBe_0z4pg&ust=1496050738691910

and other my question: do you recommend  DaiK DK-Song?what are comment about DaiK DK-Song(clios put this earbud on great level but about is it bright  and fatigueing soundstage?
  thanks


----------



## DBaldock9

numon said:


> hi
> i bought  rose masya carbon few weeks ago.but  i sold  because of bright  sound.i used to listen  on high  volume level on before in canal phones.on higer volumes rose masya is very bright for me  and fatiguing for  me. and i listen long term.so i need new earphone but i want  detachable earbuds  so i have 2 alternatives.i have 2 in my list:
> 1 DaiK DK-Song   2  Svara-L
> clios said about svara l:relaxing,musical, wide sound stage and contender level earbud) so this  look for my likes  but  there is a wearing problem for me. do i have to  wear  this  svara l  as in below photo??:look default wear .but question is:i use earbud with earhook  so if i wear this svara l downstyle(connection part will be at downside) with  hook  ,will be problem?
> ...



I've currently got two earbuds with MMCX connectors - the **** PT15, and the Daik DK-Song - and I've ordered the Svara L.

As I posted about a week ago, I had bought a set of **** PT15 last Fall - and while I didn't find them as objectionably bright as others, they seemed to have reasonable Bass, but their sound was tilted toward the Midrange and Treble.  Recently, one of the connectors came loose, so I ordered a replacement set from the same vendor as the first set.  The new PT15 have a much more balanced sound, with considerably more Bass than the first set.  I don't know if they've upgraded the driver or what (there's no mention on the AliExpress store page), but I really do like the overall sound of the current PT15.

The DK-Song has a smaller, wooden, housing than the PT15, and it's sound is similar to the first set of PT15 - some Bass, but definitely tilted toward the Midrange and Treble.

It looks like, from the photos of the Svara L, that the earbuds have a mirror image MMCX connector layout - so you should be able to just switch which ear you use the earbud in, depending on whether you want to wear the cable going over-the-ear, or hanging down.

I've always worn my earphones & earbuds with the cable over-the-ear, for a more secure and comfortable fit.  And, I plan to do the same with the Svara L, once I receive them.


----------



## numon

thanks  for  your reply
 sorry to not metion that i had senferpt15,they are also sounded to me bright  (abit more than masya).

if DK-Song similar to **** pt15  i  skipped it.
 for confirm you said i can use it as  mmcx connection part will be  downside and will be no problem?.i prefer use with hook more pratical confortable to me.
 and i hope your svara l will come soon so we can get info about its sq and brightness.thanks


----------



## Saoshyant (May 28, 2017)

DBaldock9 said:


> Here's something interesting - it's an earbud with a MMCX connector, for $62.63.  This one has the original 150Ω red film PK1 driver, but you have to provide your own MMCX cable.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/PK1...iginal-red-film-without-wire/32370417131.html



I bought it from another seller awhile ago, or at least one that looks and is described the same, but never really brought it up due to the seller's banned nature.  Now that someone else is selling it I can mention it.  Well, this one will by no means be bassy.  It's actually bass-light compared to most I've heard, albeit not the least bassy I own..  Vocals are relatively decent but nothing spectacular, and not by any means forward sounding to my ears, at least compared to some of my favorite earbuds.  I'd almost say this is good for orchestral work, but I feel the bass doesn't add enough weight to some instruments to make them properly stand out.  Treble, and keep in mind I'm a horrible judge of treble, does by no means feel bright, so most likely it's neutral-ish on it's balancing.

Someone looking for a neutral balancing might find this earbud worthwhile, so perhaps someone with better ears might argue it's a cheaper alternative to something like MX 985.

I should put the disclaimer I'm a fun-oriented listener rather than detail-oriented, so keep that in mind as this earbud doesn't suit me, but I imagine @Danneq would find higher value in it.


----------



## slappypete

Anyone in here own a Sony MDR-E484 or MDR-E472 ? I am curious as to how they compare to modern TOTL earbuds.


----------



## nmatheis

I totally forgot to post this here...

Revamp P1 + Blue Blur






Very nice combination for last night's listening


----------



## Danneq (May 28, 2017)

I


slappypete said:


> Anyone in here own a Sony MDR-E484 or MDR-E472 ? I am curious as to how they compare to modern TOTL earbuds.




I recently sold my vintage Sony earbuds (E484, 282 & 252). E252 was my favorite of the bunch and all 3 can compete with most $100+ earbuds today. But my favorites among the current TOTL earbuds, Cypherus CAX black, CampFred & QFred, Diomnes Lv2, Shozy Stardust etc blow the old Sonys away. The vintage earbuds do sound different (a slightly more "dry" sound) and I have a soft spot for that special sound of the old Sony and Aiwa earbuds. But the current TOTL earbuds are just better soundwise. However, as collectors items you can never go wrong with E484 or 472...


----------



## slappypete

Danneq said:


> I
> 
> 
> 
> I recently sold my vintage Sony earbuds (E484, 282 & 252). E252 was my favorite of the bunch and all 3 can compete with most $100+ earbuds today. But my favorites among the current TOTL earbuds, Cypherus CAX black, CampFred & QFred, Diomnes Lv2, Shozy Stardust etc blow the old Sonys away. The vintage earbuds do sound different (a slightly more "dry" sound) and I have a soft spot for that special sound of the old Sony and Aiwa earbuds. But the current TOTL earbuds are just better soundwise. However, as collectors items you can never go wrong with E484 or 472...



Thanks a bunch. That was super helpful. Out of your old Sony's which had the best bass? I imagine bass depth is an area that has improved greatly in newer buds compared to vintage... do you find that to be true or are these old Sony's actually fairly comparable to current TOTL earbuds in that regard as well?


----------



## nmatheis

This morning's "working in the yard" rig. 

Cayin N3 + ELi Sabia


----------



## upsguys88

nmatheis said:


> I totally forgot to post this here...
> 
> Revamp P1 + Blue Blur
> 
> ...



How are the lows on these?


----------



## Danneq

slappypete said:


> Thanks a bunch. That was super helpful. Out of your old Sony's which had the best bass? I imagine bass depth is an area that has improved greatly in newer buds compared to vintage... do you find that to be true or are these old Sony's actually fairly comparable to current TOTL earbuds in that regard as well?



E484 is the one with the best bass. It can still compete with a lot of current earbuds in the ~$100 category. Something like Cypherus CampFred beats E484 quite easily when it comes to bass depth etc. But for a long time E484 was the best bass earbud I owned. It is only now, in 2017 (and 2016) that I feel that the earbuds being released can beat those old Sony and Aiwas. I still hold on to my old Aiwa HP D9 since they have an amazingly big and deep soundstage. Something like Diomnes Lv2 (from small Indonesian DIY company ABnormal) comes very close, though.


----------



## slappypete

Danneq said:


> E484 is the one with the best bass. It can still compete with a lot of current earbuds in the ~$100 category. Something like Cypherus CampFred beats E484 quite easily when it comes to bass depth etc. But for a long time E484 was the best bass earbud I owned. It is only now, in 2017 (and 2016) that I feel that the earbuds being released can beat those old Sony and Aiwas. I still hold on to my old Aiwa HP D9 since they have an amazingly big and deep soundstage. Something like Diomnes Lv2 (from small Indonesian DIY company ABnormal) comes very close, though.



I ordered a CampFred 2 from Herry yesterday, and a Shozy BK about a week ago, so I guess I'll pass on getting anything vintage for a while to give my wallet a break. Still at some point I might try to pick up an E484 just to experience the vintage sound. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts on these old Sony's.


----------



## nmatheis

I'm planning to visit my wife's relatives in Stockholm next year @Danneq. Perhaps we could have an earbud- focused mini meet


----------



## Danneq

slappypete said:


> I ordered a CampFred 2 from Herry yesterday, and a Shozy BK about a week ago, so I guess I'll pass on getting anything vintage for a while to give my wallet a break. Still at some point I might try to pick up an E484 just to experience the vintage sound. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts on these old Sony's.



Well, with CampFred 2 and Shozy BK/Stardust you will pretty much be covered when it comes to low impedance TOTL earbuds. CampFred is really really great and I hope to place an order for CF2 soon. And Stardust is just lovely with a big and deep soundstage.



nmatheis said:


> I'm planning to visit my wife's relatives in Stockholm next year @Danneq. Perhaps we could have an earbud- focused mini meet



Sounds like a date! Me and the family might go to Japan for 2 months some time in Spring around March/April, but other than that I'm up for an earbud mini meet! You should consider summer. It's the best time of the year in Sweden. It's dark and gray 9 month a year, but summer is warm with long days.


----------



## nmatheis

Danneq said:


> Sounds like a date! Me and the family might go to Japan for 2 months some time in Spring around March/April, but other than that I'm up for an earbud mini meet! You should consider summer. It's the best time of the year in Sweden. It's dark and gray 9 month a year, but summer is warm with long days.



Oh yeah, it's going to be summer for sure. We want our boys to meet their Swedish cousins. Need to wait for school to let out for the summer first. It'll be my 2nd trip to Stockholm. Nice city


----------



## springbay

Danneq said:


> You should consider summer



Don't give him high hopes. It's pretty difficult to anticipate when the Swedish summer week will happen from year to year.


----------



## DBaldock9

springbay said:


> Don't give him high hopes. It's pretty difficult to anticipate when the Swedish summer week will happen from year to year.



They get a _whole week_?  __

That's sort of like how Winter goes, here in Houston, TX - it usually lasts part of a week, near the end of January, when the temperatures at night drop down below 45°F / 7°C.

When my parents and I went on holiday to the Lake District of the UK, during the last week of September & first week of October in 2011, we were told that Summer had just arrived - and it lasted at least the whole two weeks we were there.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Considering Selling the White ABnormal Labs Dietris 300Ohm, What would be a reasonable price for it?


----------



## nmatheis

MidNighTempest said:


> Considering Selling the White ABnormal Labs Dietris 300Ohm, What would be a reasonable price for it?



If I hadn't already bought one, I'd buy it off you. The only thing I don't like is that the cable isn't quite as supple as I'd like, but I'm picky in that regard.


----------



## nmatheis

Threw @tjstyle's Nuansa A1 amp into the mix tonight


----------



## Mahathera

Just joining the forum after being a lurker.

Question time boys. I have NiceHCK DIY PK1 on the way. 
I am really curious about the lows tho. How is it? is it too lean like some comment suggests?


----------



## Danneq

springbay said:


> Don't give him high hopes. It's pretty difficult to anticipate when the Swedish summer week will happen from year to year.



Well, technically we do get around 3 months of summer (June-August). But in practice that is seldom the case...


----------



## golov17

@ClieOS , Moondrop new flagship? O_o


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> @ClieOS , Moondrop new flagship? O_o



Yes, that's Moondrop latest flagship.They already released it in very small number. I might pick one up next week.


----------



## Luan Dee

Anyone here who owns the Awei ES10m, Vido and Yincrow X6? Just grabbed Awei last week and bass is great, can go lower than most buds I suppose even when used naked. Curious how these 3 compares with each other esp. in the bass department.

@golov17  I see you've discovered and shared here the Pioneer SE-CE521 before. Wonder if it's not bass light? Can you compare with Cygnus or Monks+? I also grabbed a Pioneer SE-CE11 last week, loved the mids and highs on these, seems well balanced in these frequencies and definitely more detailed than what I'm hearing from the ES10m. Satisfying cymbals and I can crank up the volume without hearing a spike anywhere, unlike in the Monks+. Responds well in EQ if you want more bass. I'm hoping the bigger brother SE-CE521 has the same highs/mids and better bass.


----------



## AkashS04

Ver JJ said:


> Ahh, thank you so much for the info.....well this will make my future easier as I don't have to search for idea online and ended up getting lots of crap.....anyways thanks a lot.


Did you go to Popular Bookshop or Stereo? Also, try Valore EP0008. Very nice earbud. In fact if someone is coming to US, I would love to get them. The same buds are at US$28 on AE but only S$13+ on Valore store (site: https://www.hachi.tech/product/6926934809400/VALORE-Earphone-with-Mic-EP0008-Brown)


----------



## golov17

Luan Dee said:


> Anyone here who owns the Awei ES10m, Vido and Yincrow X6? Just grabbed Awei last week and bass is great, can go lower than most buds I suppose even when used naked. Curious how these 3 compares with each other esp. in the bass department.
> 
> @golov17  I see you've discovered and shared here the Pioneer SE-CE521 before. Wonder if it's not bass light? Can you compare with Cygnus or Monks+? I also grabbed a Pioneer SE-CE11 last week, loved the mids and highs on these, seems well balanced in these frequencies and definitely more detailed than what I'm hearing from the ES10m. Satisfying cymbals and I can crank up the volume without hearing a spike anywhere, unlike in the Monks+. Responds well in EQ if you want more bass. I'm hoping the bigger brother SE-CE521 has the same highs/mids and better bass.


Go to DIY EMX500, nice buds with good bass too 
http://s.aliexpress.com/niiA3yMb


----------



## Ira Delphic

Mahathera said:


> Just joining the forum after being a lurker.
> 
> Question time boys. I have NiceHCK DIY PK1 on the way.
> I am really curious about the lows tho. How is it? is it too lean like some comment suggests?



Do you mean NiceHCK DIY PK*2*? The lows are - meh... and not much if any sub-bass. It's a sweet sounding all-rounder though. I have a Yincrow X6 in transit. More bass from what I've read compared to NiceHCK DIY PK2.


----------



## Mahathera

Ira Delphic said:


> Do you mean NiceHCK DIY PK*2*? The lows are - meh... and not much if any sub-bass. It's a sweet sounding all-rounder though. I have a Yincrow X6 in transit. More bass from what I've read compared to NiceHCK DIY PK2.



Yep, yours are accurate. NiceHCK DIY PK2 (not PK1). This one https://goo.gl/pO561d.
I like bass and for years, I like warm sound. But whatever I am ready for new taste. Thanks for the info man!


----------



## Ira Delphic

Mahathera said:


> Yep, yours are accurate. NiceHCK DIY PK2 (not PK1). This one https://goo.gl/pO561d.
> I like bass and for years, I like warm sound. But whatever I am ready for new taste. Thanks for the info man!



Let us know what you think of the DIY PK2 and welcome to Head-Fi!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I've updated my Mega TY Hi-Z Family thread to include the new *TY Hi-Z AWK-314P*:  

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/introduction-to-ty-hi-z-earbud-family-mega-review.831374/


 

--


----------



## nmatheis

PSA: I got scammed by BhoBuds.com, which is associated with Vapman. Please avoid it like the plague!



 

Sharpie, burn marks on shells, crap shrink wrap job, tape strain relief?!? Absolutely ridiculous!!!


On to more positive things...

Tonight's rig: Shozy Alien+ with Crow Audio "Raven"


----------



## golov17 (May 31, 2017)

@vapman ???


----------



## ClieOS

nmatheis said:


> PSA: I got scammed by BhoBuds.com, which is associated with Vapman. Please avoid it like the plague!



Unfortunately this is not the first time something bad have happened to people who try to do business with @vapman. I am sorry to say but the pattern is getting clearer and clearer.


----------



## Makahl (May 31, 2017)

golov17 said:


> @vapman ???



Tbh I wouldn't be surprised. I think his last selling feedback and rggz's case (and apparently few more people) shows us a clear problem when it's regarding trades.



Spoiler


----------



## Saoshyant

Vapman had had problems in the past with life popping up, and tried to make amends for any issues caused.  Until I see reason to believe otherwise, I'd prefer to continue to treat it this way.  Would still like to get either my monk back or the mod I paid for, but it's not the end of the world.


----------



## Makahl (May 31, 2017)

Saoshyant said:


> Vapman had had problems in the past with life popping up, and tried to make amends for any issues caused.  *Until I see reason to believe otherwise*, I'd prefer to continue to treat it this way.  Would still like to get either my monk back or the mod I paid for, but it's not the end of the world.





Spoiler



_"Disclaimer:  I have an odd sense of humor.  Just figured I should give fair warning."_

Sorry, but I don't know if you're joking or not. But, if you're being serious it shows the same scammer behavior a few years ago with a different nickname: http://imgur.com/a/1RgOn -- I believe a lot of people have personal problems and it never should be an excuse to start scamming people or fake tracking numbers (which is a federal crime).

About to the "to make amends for any issues caused" I'm not sure about @Mr.Sneis and @VORR and reading comments on the facebook's group now (https://www.facebook.com/groups/EarbudsAnonymous/permalink/1859077841020408/) there are more people who got scammed and haven't received anything since 2016. But well, if it's not that bad for you...


----------



## Saoshyant

Makahl said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Have you had any personal problems with Vapman?  I personally have had issues twice in this respect with Vapman, but have also had many other pleasant dealings and have enjoyed chatting with them about various things.  So I personally choose to believe that there are underlying issues causing the behavior and have faith in them.  Really, I'm more worried about someone I quite got along with rather than the bad.  I do agree that if Vapman's a scammer then that's an issue, but I'm not convinced it's the case.  And no, I'm not joking.


----------



## noknok23

50/50 for me.
I had one successful trade with vapman. Fast shipping. Well packaged. No problems at all.
The other one was with seahf 650 and extra cash and bhobuds back in February... I never did receive them... We agreed he would send me back seahf with insurance. I am very surprised to see how many people never received their bhobuds as well today after nmatheis posted it.
Imo vapman is not a bad guy but has probably some issues. . It's a wonderful person to talk with, but unreliable with business...


----------



## AkashS04

Vido with original Foams are excellent. Lots of Bass and Smooth sound signature. Some amount of feel of Studio like sound. SHE3800 was good too but I guess this is slightly better. Best budget earbuds so far I guess. Highly recommended if you like to have multiple earbuds in your kitty.


----------



## Danneq (May 31, 2017)

Vapman is a great buyer, but I would personally be careful to trade or buy stuff from him. I do not think it is a deliberate attempt to scam, but rather some sort of personal problems that cause this behavior.

I traded a Kenwood Mediakeg MG G608 for a modded iPod Mini about 1 year ago. I never received the one that was sent at first. Later I did receive one that had some ugly marks (I had been warned about that and said it was okay). That iPod never did work well, at least with Rockbox. I recently sold it and warned the buyer that Rockbox doesn't work well on it and that he should revert to the original firmware in case RB gave him problems. Hopefully it will serve the new owner well...

Anyway, back to earbuds:
I was going to lay off buying cheaper earbuds and only focus on TOTL earbuds. But I recently bought DIY PK2 and Vido from Ali express. Only $30 for 2 pairs of Vido and 1 pair of DIY PK2 isn't a very big expense.

Furthermore, I will miss the first batch of CampFred 2. I wanted to pay with Western Union but since I forgot the password my account was locked and I still have not managed to unlock it. I don't want to keep Herry waiting so I asked him to put me on the waiting list for batch 2. Hopefully the WU problem will be solved soon...


----------



## ClieOS (May 31, 2017)

The question is not so much on whether he is actively scamming people around or not (which I don't personally think he is), but whether we as a community should allow ourselves to see more fellow audiophiles getting burnt before decided that enough is enough. Vapman is a great contributor to the earbuds discussion, but also obviously a pretty bad trader and a repeat offender - and at some point he will have to take the responsibility and face the consequences for what he has done - and I think he is really close to his last straw.


----------



## Saoshyant

One thing I dislike is I personally felt pressured by a member here to contact Jude about Vapman, urging that I needed to do it in order to help others.  Kind of made me a little uncomfortable.


----------



## Ira Delphic

I hope Vapman is doing OK, and like I said at the end of the Vapman Scammer thread...I don't believe he's a scammer. His real name is out there. If he wanted to scam people out of money surely there are better ways to do it. I did a small transaction with him in March that went south, and in the end it was resolved to my satisfaction. I feel bad for anyone that got burned recently, but like others have said, much worse things can happen. Vapman was a major contributor to the earbud threads and it's a shame he's gone. I trusted his reviews more than some of the other more popular reviewers on Head-Fi. I hope that Vapman can make things right and return to the forum.


----------



## nmatheis

Yes, he claimed to be @vapman in our email exchanges.


----------



## nmatheis

Sorry to derail the conversation into a back and forth about whether @vapman is a scammer. After what I experienced, I wouldn't hesitate to say yes. I would also urge others to relay their experiences to the moderators so they can take action to prevent others from experiencing the same issues. It's all about honesty and mutual respect amongst community members IMHO. We're here to help each other, not screw others over...


----------



## waynes world

nmatheis said:


> PSA: I got scammed by BhoBuds.com, which is associated with Vapman. Please avoid it like the plague!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Like the spoiler says: Wow. Good 'ol vapman is a bit of an enigma, that's for sure.


----------



## Nec3

Currently trying out the Ty Hi-Z 150 ohm... these are kind of shouty in the upper mids, but I haven't seen anyone saying that they are. Anyone have experience with which foam covers fit these best?


----------



## boblauer (May 31, 2017)

Makahl said:


> Tbh I wouldn't be surprised. I think his last selling feedback and rggz's case (and apparently few more people) shows us a clear problem when it's regarding trades.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Yep I fell victim, sent a pair of Red MP never got anything back. Not really a big deal, out like $7 
but the bad karma will not help him in life. Scammer I do not know if I could draw that conclusion as I did buy something that was received but certainly he should not be doing this as a business until he gets his stuff together.


----------



## Mahathera

Vapman-Gate hu?

In the other topic, I am patiently waiting for Svara L long review. That baby look so polished.


----------



## AkashS04

Ira Delphic said:


> I hope Vapman is doing OK, and like I said at the end of the Vapman Scammer thread...I don't believe he's a scammer. His real name is out there. If he wanted to scam people out of money surely there are better ways to do it. I did a small transaction with him in March that went south, and in the end it was resolved to my satisfaction. I feel bad for anyone that got burned recently, but like others have said, much worse things can happen. Vapman was a major contributor to the earbud threads and it's a shame he's gone. I trusted his reviews more than some of the other more popular reviewers on Head-Fi. I hope that Vapman can make things right and return to the forum.


Looks you are also using PowerAmp. It is excellent app. One thing I wanted to check with you, how can you manage songs' order in the list. If I add some song at Number 20 and then want to move it down or up, there is no such option. Any suggestion?


----------



## silverfishla (May 31, 2017)

nmatheis said:


> PSA: I got scammed by BhoBuds.com, which is associated with Vapman. Please avoid it like the plague!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm kind of new here, so I don't know the whole story about Vapman....but man, I'd be pissed if somebody played me that way.  It's not "scamming" by the way, it's called fraud...and if you do it through the US mail, it's a Federal offense...seriously.  Not just uncool, but bizarre.

@nmatheis P.S.  And I can't believe no one asked you... "Yeah, but how did they sound?"  Sorry I had to.


----------



## Ira Delphic (May 31, 2017)

The Nicehck DIY PK2 black cable version arrived today. Same sound as the silver cable (faux Cygnus) versions, but I gave that away so going by memory. I still believe the sound is a step above other budget earbuds like Monk+, Qian25 etc. Also nice build quality.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Sad to see all this Vapman news. I had one sale with him that ended in a PayPal claim, but that was mainly due to a misunderstanding.

Has anyone here tried CIEMs? Just got some "budget" acrylic ones, but the sound is just disappointing. It's like I'm listening to a budget earbud, but with TOTL earbud price (actually more). The barrier-to-entry cost is just so high, and then it just skyrockets when you get to TOTL. Earbuds really do have great value. I'm not touching CIEMs again... 

I have CAX Black coming in this week. I decided to separate the order from CampFred 2 since my impatience got the better of me. I'm really hoping these are as great as I've read online. Already been selling a few things, but I've been considering selling *ALL* my high-end crap (DACs, Amps, Headphones, and _even cables..._) to buy a DX200 (or the new X7 this summer), put the rest into savings, and be done with it.


----------



## flexy321 (May 31, 2017)

Well my first set of SHE3800 is busted, lasted about one week.  I mistakenly had my PC on too loud today and this seemed to have "blown" the driver membrane out so it developed some horrible noise at low Hz. Tried to fix it, took driver out etc. but no dice. Using the other one now which I slightly modded. Still amazed how much better they sound than my old SONY 818s which I just again took for comparison. The SONYs now sound like coke-cans to me. Now I just wish I had bought more SHEs from Fasttech and not just these two...

My VE Monks are STILL in the mail from China and on Friday it's a month since I ordered them. Highly expect them tomorrow (Thurs) or Friday, otherwise I am getting slightly concerned,seeing that this was such a massive investment of a staggering $15  (I mean I know mail from China can at times take an insane long time, so I'll see...)


----------



## WayTooCrazy

ctaxxxx said:


> Sad to see all this Vapman news. I had one sale with him that ended in a PayPal claim, but that was mainly due to a misunderstanding.
> 
> Has anyone here tried CIEMs? Just got some "budget" acrylic ones, but the sound is just disappointing. It's like I'm listening to a budget earbud, but with TOTL earbud price (actually more). The barrier-to-entry cost is just so high, and then it just skyrockets when you get to TOTL. Earbuds really do have great value. I'm not touching CIEMs again...



Yes. I picked up a pair of Heir Audio CIEMs back when they were first introduced. I was never been able to get  good seal with them (after spending almost $700 in total) and have them remain comfortable. I had them re-worked twice. I tried selling them, gave up and ended up giving them away to someone who was going to have them re-shelled for $250 or something along those lines. Hope they have a better time with it than I. I did pick up a pair of Iansean single BA IEMs from Amazon for $7. They are really nice for the price. I'm waiting for my Zen 2 Black Edition to finish on the burn station so I can toss these on for 50-100hrs and see if anything changes.


----------



## rkw

golov17 said:


> @ClieOS , Moondrop new flagship? O_o





ClieOS said:


> Yes, that's Moondrop latest flagship.They already released it in very small number. I might pick one up next week.


This is the first time I've heard of Moondrop. How are their products? They don't seem to be on AliExpress.
I found their website: http://www.moondrop.cn/col.jsp?id=107


----------



## Frederick Wang

Now I want a pair of Diomnes lv.2, just sent a message to ABNormal labs, I hope they still have Monk earbuds for modification...


----------



## golov17

rkw said:


> This is the first time I've heard of Moondrop. How are their products? They don't seem to be on AliExpress.
> I found their website: http://www.moondrop.cn/col.jsp?id=107


 
2016 New NICEHCK Moondrop VX Pro Earbud Earphone HIFI Fever DIY Earphone Equalization HIFI 13.5mm Dynamic Driver Free Shipping
http://s.aliexpress.com/eM3ARzAr 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## ClieOS

rkw said:


> This is the first time I've heard of Moondrop. How are their products? They don't seem to be on AliExpress.
> I found their website: http://www.moondrop.cn/col.jsp?id=107



Their previous flgship, the VX Pro, is airy, neutral, detailed and specious. Not quite an ToTL earbuds yet but easily competes in 2nd tier / contender level market. The new flagship Liebesleid is a huge jump in price, but also said to be a ToTL level earbuds. I will probably receive mine sometime next week and will update with an impression.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

My Review of an Earbud, but I can't tell you where to buy it.  You'll have to look that up yourself.  

_*Disclaimer - I did receive this free, for the purpose of reviewing*_


***** DIY MX760*:

 

_*Specs*_

- Impedance: 64Ω 
- Headphone sensitivity: 105db±2db
- Frequency range: 20-20000Hz
- Cable Length: 1.2m±5cm

 

_*Build*_

The housings are based on the MX760 design. There are no labels for Left or Right on the shells, instead there is just a small raised bump on the left side. You will also notice that the shells are slightly off center, giving the tip a more angled entry into the ear. The cable is directly shared with the DIY EMX500 and I've found it does like to wind itself up and tangle from time to time. Both the splitter and the 3.5mm plug are housed in diamond cut metal, making for a good grip. 

  

_*Sound*_

Lows - Bass is not over extended, but there is a bit of darkness. Mids can get interupted on certain tracks as the lows creep up. Sub-bass takes a back seat to a the mid-bass bump.

Mids - Vocals are treated with a smoothness that could be described as a touch recessed. The details that do come through are enjoyable.

Highs - Never fear, no harshness here to be found with the **** DIY MX760. The upper frequencies do communicate accurate playback without fatigue.

Soundstage - I liked the distance the **** DIY MX760 provides, it is neither congested, nor too wide, but just right.

 
_
*Driving*_

The **** DIY MX760 does seem to need a little extra juice to reach their full potential. While they are rated at 64ohm and can technically be driven by most anything, I found they responded best to my full desktop setup. Pairing them with something like a FiiO M3 or Benjie S5 gave me the feeling feeling something was being left out.

 


_*Overall Thoughts*_

If your looking for a slightly dark sound, with a mid-bass kick, easy mids, non-harsh highs and a decent soundstage, the **** DIY MX760 might be the earbud for you.

--


----------



## golov17 (Jun 1, 2017)

BloodyPenguin said:


> My Review of an Earbud, but I can't tell you where to buy it.  You'll have to look that up yourself.
> 
> _*Disclaimer - I did receive this free, for the purpose of reviewing*_
> 
> ...


Mine in the way to me )) but them have 32 Ohm


----------



## nmatheis

Frederick Wang said:


> Now I want a pair of Diomnes lv.2, just sent a message to ABNormal labs, I hope they still have Monk earbuds for modification...



Last time I chatted with them, they didn't. You had to send in your own original Monk for modification.


----------



## Raketen (Jun 1, 2017)

ctaxxxx said:


> Sad to see all this Vapman news. I had one sale with him that ended in a PayPal claim, but that was mainly due to a misunderstanding.
> 
> Has anyone here tried CIEMs? Just got some "budget" acrylic ones, but the sound is just disappointing. It's like I'm listening to a budget earbud, but with TOTL earbud price (actually more). The barrier-to-entry cost is just so high, and then it just skyrockets when you get to TOTL. Earbuds really do have great value. I'm not touching CIEMs again...
> 
> I have CAX Black coming in this week. I decided to separate the order from CampFred 2 since my impatience got the better of me. I'm really hoping these are as great as I've read online. Already been selling a few things, but I've been considering selling *ALL* my high-end crap (DACs, Amps, Headphones, and _even cables..._) to buy a DX200 (or the new X7 this summer), put the rest into savings, and be done with it.



AGREE! Several people warned me but i just HAD To try it  I've found CIEM experience pretty frustrating in spite of very good customer service from the company. I think my expectations were residual from CIEM reputation during the days when really good universal IEM and earbuds were relatively scarce and hard to discover... now I suspect the best justification is for practical applications (like for people who can't find comfort or isolation with UIEM).


----------



## sstyle

Guys, mb somebody looking for the first place of rank - Sennheiser MX980? I sell one of them - https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/sennheiser-mx980-one-of-the-best-earbuds.851572/


----------



## upsguys88

Frederick Wang said:


> Now I want a pair of Diomnes lv.2, just sent a message to ABNormal labs, I hope they still have Monk earbuds for modification...



They got back to me and put me on a "waiting list" if they ever get any more monks.


----------



## audio123 (Jun 1, 2017)

Enjoy my review on the Rose Masya
https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/rose-masya.22316/reviews
Cheers


----------



## ryannguyen699

Can anyone recommend me a good earbud around 100 or less. Currently i'm using Mrz Tomahawk, lovely earbud but the size hurts my ear.


----------



## AkashS04

Is there any earbud with "Active Noise Cancellation"? I doubt though.


----------



## noknok23 (Jun 2, 2017)

ryannguyen699 said:


> Can anyone recommend me a good earbud around 100 or less. Currently i'm using Mrz Tomahawk, lovely earbud but the size hurts my ear.


Seahf 650? But you need amp.all rounder, a bit v shaped.

Blur diy, a mid centric earbud with amazing clarity and open soundstage. 300ohm, need power to shine


----------



## Saoshyant

ryannguyen699 said:


> Can anyone recommend me a good earbud around 100 or less. Currently i'm using Mrz Tomahawk, lovely earbud but the size hurts my ear.



Some reliable options under 100 would be Shozy Cygnus, Red Demun which Rholupat has one sale currently, Edimun V3, and Crow Audio Raven.  I personally have cable issues due to stiffness with Red Demun, another had issues with the Raven in that respect.  Cygnus and Raven are great for vocals, Demun for all-around, and Edimun is a solid all arounder with a more fun sound to it to my ears.  Comfort-wise, I'd say Cygnus wins.  You can also contact @uairekko and see about a custom build, who pretty much from the ground up builds your earbud to what you're after.  I was really pleased with the work.  If I remember I overpaid on shipping to be safe due to neither of us being sure of the cost, so it should come in at under $100.

Some other suggestions might be made based on what you're looking for sound-wise, type of music you listen to, and maybe what you'd use the earbuds with as far as source.

Off topic:  speaking of Red Demun, can anyone describe the differences between Red & Blue Demun?  Given the sale I might pick it up if it seems promising.


----------



## chinmie

Saoshyant said:


> Off topic:  speaking of Red Demun, can anyone describe the differences between Red & Blue Demun?  Given the sale I might pick it up if it seems promising.



copied from my old post: they sounded similar, but the blue has more energy and harmonics on treble frequencies...it's like the cymbals are hit harder. I prefer the softer treble sound on the red, and also the red is slightly better at mids, and sounded a tad clearer on that noisy place. But the both are outstanding. according to adhi, the blue and red only differs in cable. the driver tweaks are the same. 

the red is still better in mid and bass sector, while the blue indeed has more harmonics on the treble. i myself prefer the red, but the blue certainly is great also


----------



## Saoshyant

chinmie said:


> copied from my old post: they sounded similar, but the blue has more energy and harmonics on treble frequencies...it's like the cymbals are hit harder. I prefer the softer treble sound on the red, and also the red is slightly better at mids, and sounded a tad clearer on that noisy place. But the both are outstanding. according to adhi, the blue and red only differs in cable. the driver tweaks are the same.
> 
> the red is still better in mid and bass sector, while the blue indeed has more harmonics on the treble. i myself prefer the red, but the blue certainly is great also



Is there a similar cable stiffness?  That red cable is a bit too stiff


----------



## chinmie

Saoshyant said:


> Is there a similar cable stiffness?  That red cable is a bit too stiff



it's been a while since i tried, i forgot the stiffness of the cable. mind you that i tried two red demuns, my first one had a stiff cable, i returned them because a really slight imbalance. the second demun (the one I'm using now) have a more supple and manageable cable


----------



## KookaBurrra

ryannguyen699 said:


> Can anyone recommend me a good earbud around 100 or less. Currently i'm using Mrz Tomahawk, lovely earbud but the size hurts my ear.



At this price, I look to the Rose Masya... http://penonaudio.com/Rose-Masya like in this review : https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/rose-masya.22316/reviews It seems fantastic !!


----------



## Fabi

Saoshyant said:


> Off topic: speaking of Red Demun, can anyone describe the differences between Red & Blue Demun? Given the sale I might pick it up if it seems promising.


You can read our mate @ctaxxxx opinion on both Demun.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H6O196NajUQSwVgGT5F69c9sZMMdjq3ahZS7UqaZHe4/edit


----------



## audio123 (Jun 2, 2017)

KookaBurrra said:


> At this price, I look to the Rose Masya... http://penonaudio.com/Rose-Masya like in this review : https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/rose-masya.22316/reviews It seems fantastic !!



Thank you for your kind words. The Rose Masya is really good for the price. Smooth Operator.


----------



## Saoshyant

I suspect I might not try out the Blue due to sound sig and cable.  Then again it's a sale...


----------



## Ira Delphic

ryannguyen699 said:


> Can anyone recommend me a good earbud around 100 or less. Currently i'm using Mrz Tomahawk, lovely earbud but the size hurts my ear.



For neutral sound earbuds consider TY Hi-Z Earbud HP650 or TY Hi-Z HP-400se . The 400se is well under $100. Bloody Penguin did a nice overview of the TY lineup
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/introduction-to-ty-hi-z-earbud-family-mega-review.831374/

I have the HP650 and if the 400se was available I'd likley be happy with that too.


----------



## kfarndog

audio123 said:


> Enjoy my review on the Rose Masya
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/rose-masya.22316/reviews
> Cheers



Nice review and observations.  I bet the Masya sounds fantastic with the Questyle.


----------



## rahmish

Saoshyant said:


> I suspect I might not try out the Blue due to sound sig and cable.  Then again it's a sale...


I got blue,like the sound,but cable is stiff not comfy when you moving


----------



## one1speed

KookaBurrra said:


> At this price, I look to the Rose Masya... http://penonaudio.com/Rose-Masya like in this review : https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/rose-masya.22316/reviews It seems fantastic !!



I was going to post the same. I have the Masya and while the fit is a little finicky, I am constantly impressed with what one can get for just over $100. Really impressive.


----------



## slappypete (Jun 2, 2017)

Has anyone here tried or heard anything about the Puresounds 600 ohm bud? aliexpress link: HERE

I haven't come accros the company before.

EDIT:

nevermind I just found a bunch of reviews on head-fi for it


----------



## audio123

kfarndog said:


> Nice review and observations.  I bet the Masya sounds fantastic with the Questyle.


Thanks mate. Will continue doing more reviews in the future.


----------



## knudsen

tinkertailor said:


> Sorry if this is a dumb question, but is the H-MX500 just a FAAEAL 32? when I search that , that's what comes up, which makes sense, cuz I love that bud. (if not, can you post a link?). I also love that EMX500...but mine crapped out and started distorting...I already ordered another pair though...the new ones with the white cable! (search it if you aren't aware of the new version)  : )



Did you try opening up your distorting EMX500 - if so, was it difficult? They seem to be glued or something, not sure if one can just up the force..


----------



## ryannguyen699 (Jun 3, 2017)

Saoshyant said:


> Some reliable options under 100 would be Shozy Cygnus, Red Demun which Rholupat has one sale currently, Edimun V3, and Crow Audio Raven.  I personally have cable issues due to stiffness with Red Demun, another had issues with the Raven in that respect.  Cygnus and Raven are great for vocals, Demun for all-around, and Edimun is a solid all arounder with a more fun sound to it to my ears.  Comfort-wise, I'd say Cygnus wins.  You can also contact @uairekko and see about a custom build, who pretty much from the ground up builds your earbud to what you're after.  I was really pleased with the work.  If I remember I overpaid on shipping to be safe due to neither of us being sure of the cost, so it should come in at under $100.
> 
> Some other suggestions might be made based on what you're looking for sound-wise, type of music you listen to, and maybe what you'd use the earbuds with as far as source.
> 
> Off topic:  speaking of Red Demun, can anyone describe the differences between Red & Blue Demun?  Given the sale I might pick it up if it seems promising.





KookaBurrra said:


> At this price, I look to the Rose Masya... http://penonaudio.com/Rose-Masya like in this review : https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/rose-masya.22316/reviews It seems fantastic !!





Ira Delphic said:


> For neutral sound earbuds consider TY Hi-Z Earbud HP650 or TY Hi-Z HP-400se . The 400se is well under $100. Bloody Penguin did a nice overview of the TY lineup
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/introduction-to-ty-hi-z-earbud-family-mega-review.831374/
> 
> I have the HP650 and if the 400se was available I'd likley be happy with that too.



Thanks you guys so much. I think im going to take a bet on Rose Masya.But im still thinking of SHOZY Cygnus
I think it'd be better if I introduce a bit of my current circumstance.
At the moment, I have only my phone which is iphone 6+ to is the source for all my music. Im a fan of amped pk1 when listening to my favorite type of music (vocal,ballad - mostly female) because of the detail and the instrument separation as well as the comfort of it.


----------



## ClieOS

K's (凯) earphone K200
Shozy Cygnus(?) Limited Edition
FaShaoZhe M90





Be off in a few hours to vacation for a couple of days, so I won't be posting any detail impression till I am back.


----------



## Saoshyant

ryannguyen699 said:


> Thanks you guys so much. I think im going to take a bet on Rose Masya.But im still thinking of SHOZY Cygnus
> I think it'd be better if I introduce a bit of my current circumstance.
> At the moment, I have only my phone which is iphone 6+ to is the source for all my music. Im a fan of amped pk1 when listening to my favorite type of music (vocal,ballad - mostly female) because of the detail and the instrument separation as well as the comfort of it.



Both Cygnus & Masya will do well, and are easily driven.


----------



## robervaul

I'm looking for a bud with TY32 Bass but more refinement in the mids . Oh man, that bass


----------



## Rizky Octayudha

This guy is going to create an Earbud with Planar scheme and right now collecting info people's interest. If you interest, contact him. He's one of Indonesia's famous earbud Technician and builder


----------



## Saoshyant

A planar earbud?  I'm quite curious


----------



## Rizky Octayudha

Saoshyant said:


> A planar earbud?  I'm quite curious


Contact him for more info "Reno Wahyudi" via FB


----------



## Rizky Octayudha

Photo i took this photo from his FB timeline..


----------



## EGO DEATH

golov17 said:


> Mine in the way to me )) but them have 32 Ohm



А где резинки для  stacking можно купить?


----------



## EGO DEATH (Jun 3, 2017)

@Raketen

 rolig bild hörrudu.

@Ira Delphic

I'm curious as to where you would place stardust, in terms of strengths. Also relative to the 650s?


----------



## Ira Delphic

ryannguyen699 said:


> Thanks you guys so much. I think im going to take a bet on Rose Masya.But im still thinking of SHOZY Cygnus
> I think it'd be better if I introduce a bit of my current circumstance.
> At the moment, I have only my phone which is iphone 6+ to is the source for all my music. Im a fan of amped pk1 when listening to my favorite type of music (vocal,ballad - mostly female) because of the detail and the instrument separation as well as the comfort of it.



I use an LG V10 with my TY HP650, and don't have experience driving with 6+. You have some good options there!


----------



## Ira Delphic

ClieOS said:


> K's (凯) earphone K200
> Shozy Cygnus(?) Limited Edition
> FaShaoZhe M90
> 
> ...



Amazing...Shozy must have a big supply of NOS - New Old Stock drivers for the Cygnus. We thought they would surely have run out by now


----------



## chellity (Jun 3, 2017)

oh my goodness, those of you that ordered the eb200 are in for a treat!

they're seriously great.  a nice well balanced sound with a wide soundstage and great imaging for the price.  I'm using them with a cayin n3 and they sound like they're pretty much made for each other.  the bass is indeed good in this balanced earbud...a great compliment to the bassy vidos.  Out of the box, I think I already prefer them to the brighter diy pk2, but all of these buds have to be some of the best for the price.


----------



## golov17

Ira Delphic said:


> For neutral sound earbuds consider TY Hi-Z Earbud HP650 or TY Hi-Z HP-400se . The 400se is well under $100. Bloody Penguin did a nice overview of the TY lineup
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/introduction-to-ty-hi-z-earbud-family-mega-review.831374/
> 
> I have the HP650 and if the 400se was available I'd likley be happy with that too.


My pair Seahf 400s pro on the way to me.. waiting ))


----------



## golov17

chellity said:


> oh my goodness, those of you that ordered the eb200 are in for a treat!
> 
> they're seriously great.  a nice well balanced sound with a wide soundstage and great imaging for the price.  I'm using them with a cayin n3 and they sound like they're pretty much made for each other.  the bass is indeed good in this balanced earbud...a great compliment to the bassy vidos.  Out of the box, I think I already prefer them to the brighter diy pk2, but all of these buds have to be some of the best for the price.


Nice to know.. on the way too


----------



## noknok23

Diy pk2 from nicehck is already too warm for me  I'm craving crystal clear brightness...


----------



## golov17

noknok23 said:


> Diy pk2 from nicehck is already too warm for me  I'm craving crystal clear brightness...


Go to Shozy BK ))


----------



## Mahathera

golov17 said:


> Go to Shozy BK ))



Wait I am puzzled here. Is Shozy BK lean towards bright bud?...I am saving money for this baby.


----------



## noknok23

Thanks, I will try the Vietnamese diy version of shozy bk actually... Eliking or something


----------



## golov17

Mahathera said:


> Wait I am puzzled here. Is Shozy BK lean towards bright bud?...I am saving money for this baby.


better expansion at the edges and more neutral mids


----------



## Raketen (Jun 4, 2017)

Mahathera said:


> Wait I am puzzled here. Is Shozy BK lean towards bright bud?...I am saving money for this baby.



Personally find bk/dust somewhat on the warm & bassy side of neutral (but I tend toward brighter sigs) . There is a bit of a peak in the highs that shows up in vocal textures especially  (for this reason I use thick foams, without them I find it really irritating).


----------



## Mahathera

golov17 said:


> better expansion at the edges and more neutral mids


Ty golov, so as newbie here I also would like to ask your recommendation. 
I am looking at purchasing shozy BK because of the housing is yuin-type. More comfortable to my tiny ears than mx500 shell. Could you recommend other bud with similar quality? I prefer balance sound, not too bright and not super bassy too.



Raketen said:


> Personally find bk/dust somewhat on the warm & bassy side of neutral (but I tend toward brighter sigs) . There is a bit of a peak in the highs that shows up in vocal textures especially  (for this reason I use thick foams, without them I find it really irritating).


Ouch. Now I am getting hesitate on purchasing BK


----------



## golov17

[QUOTE = «Mahathera, сообщение: 13527976, член: 477078»] Ты Головы, чтобы новичок здесь я также хотел бы попросить вашу рекомендацию.
Я смотрю на покупку shozy BK из корпуса является Yuin типа. Более удобный мои крошечные уши, чем MX500 оболочки. Не могли бы вы порекомендовать другой бутон с подобным качеством? Я предпочитаю балансировать звук, не слишком яркий и не супер басовость тоже.


Уч. Теперь я получаю стесняться о покупке BK :разочарованный:[/ QUOTE]
Во-первых, вы пытались любой DoCoMo? Как NiceHCK DIY PK2?


----------



## Mahathera

golov17 said:


> [QUOTE = «Mahathera, сообщение: 13527976, член: 477078»] Ты Головы, чтобы новичок здесь я также хотел бы попросить вашу рекомендацию.
> Я смотрю на покупку shozy BK из корпуса является Yuin типа. Более удобный мои крошечные уши, чем MX500 оболочки. Не могли бы вы порекомендовать другой бутон с подобным качеством? Я предпочитаю балансировать звук, не слишком яркий и не супер басовость тоже.
> 
> 
> ...


NiceHCK DIY PIK2. I have one on the way .... 
I am looking also for the "TOTL line" (want to give me something nice). 
So far, I have tried yuin OK1, very good but there is a bit harshness in high frequency that I cannot stand.


----------



## Raketen (Jun 4, 2017)

Mahathera said:


> I prefer balance sound, not too bright and not super bassy too.
> Ouch. Now I am getting hesitate on purchasing BK



Didn't intend to make BK sound too bad! I actually enjoy them lol. The peak isn't sibillance more like a rasping texture that thick foams mostly hide, I haven't seen anyone else complain about it, might just be a sensitivity peculiar to me.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Raketen said:


> Personally find bk/dust somewhat on the warm & bassy side of neutral (but I tend toward brighter sigs) . There is a bit of a peak in the highs that shows up in vocal textures especially  (for this reason I use thick foams, without them I find it really irritating).



I just realized from your description that the Shozy BK are essentially the HE-560 headphones. That explains why I loved them so much. I should do a relative headphone  item on my comparison list, to convert future earbud lovers lol. 

Apologies to anyone that looked forward to my HD800S vs TOTL earbuds comparison. Decided to drop the majority of headphones entirely, and go the portable route. I have a DX200 + AMP2 on the way (in case I want that X5 warmth again).


----------



## slappypete

Raketen said:


> Didn't intend to make BK sound too bad! I actually enjoy them lol. The peak isn't sibillance more like a rasping texture that thick foams mostly hide, I haven't seen anyone else complain about it, might just be a sensitivity peculiar to me.



It isn't just you. I've had the BK for about a week now and hear some sort of peak in upper mids or lower treble. I have to be careful with volume otherwise I get some listening fatigue with these. Other than that I really enjoy them though. They are nicely extended in both directions, while still seeming to be relatively flat in signature to me.


----------



## ozkan (Jun 4, 2017)

Just FYI! If you have rattling/buzzing/distorting earbuds just try to blow/suck air gently to/behind the driver. This may solve your issues before ordering another one or throwing to the trash. I rescued some of my iems and earphones with this method.


----------



## kurtextrem

Shozy has a new earbud? Where exactly did you find the "limited edition" @ClieOS? :O


----------



## mochill

China only bud


----------



## JesvsR

Hey guys¡¡ What do you recommend as a competitor for VE Monk +?? I mean, an earbud at the same price and with, at least, the same sound quality


----------



## golov17

kurtextrem said:


> Shozy has a new earbud? Where exactly did you find the "limited edition" @ClieOS? :O


----------



## golov17

JesvsR said:


> Hey guys¡¡ What do you recommend as a competitor for VE Monk +?? I mean, an earbud at the same price and with, at least, the same sound quality


 https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/absolute-best-budget-earbuds.812853/


----------



## rahmish

JesvsR said:


> Hey guys¡¡ What do you recommend as a competitor for VE Monk +?? I mean, an earbud at the same price and with, at least, the same sound quality


Vido or Faaeal64


----------



## robervaul

Any Bud recommendation with BASS of TY32 + better mids/trebe ?


----------



## mr_ossie

I have a pair of lightly used Shozy BK (3.5mm Edition) that I'm trying to sell if anyone's interested, PM me please. I'm in the Los Angeles area.


----------



## ClieOS

kurtextrem said:


> Shozy has a new earbud? Where exactly did you find the "limited edition" @ClieOS? :O



Not exactly 'China only', but it is meant to be specific for Shozy support in their QQ discussion group though anyone who has a Taobao account can order one. It is hand-built with only a few pair available daily so ordering can take quite some time.


----------



## chinmie

robervaul said:


> Any Bud recommendation with BASS of TY32 + better mids/trebe ?



vido, TP16, or (but i haven't tried them yet) the higher ohms TY HI-Z


----------



## Mahathera

What is the sound differences betweeen DIY PK2 and DIY PK1. 
I am planning on trying this https://goo.gl/Hgg3EB


----------



## Yobster69

Mahathera said:


> What is the sound differences betweeen DIY PK2 and DIY PK1.
> I am planning on trying this https://goo.gl/Hgg3EB


Hi, I have the **** EPK1, well had it until I dismantled it and used the cable on a different bud, and can say that it is very bass lite. Call it polite, bass shy or just plain lacking, it wasn't my taste but the cable was too nice to waste! 
The mids and highs are great though and some have said it is good for jazz and acoustic, but even listening to these types of music I need some sub bass 

The DIY PK2 are very different. They do have a nice mid and sub bass response, not huge like some, but certainly satisfying. And the mids and highs are also very good. Most people that have this bud are very pleased with it. 
All IMO of course. Others may have a different stance on them. 
I hope thIs helps.


----------



## Mahathera

Yes indeed it helps on perspective. Thanks dude


----------



## one1speed

slappypete said:


> It isn't just you. I've had the BK for about a week now and hear some sort of peak in upper mids or lower treble. I have to be careful with volume otherwise I get some listening fatigue with these. Other than that I really enjoy them though. They are nicely extended in both directions, while still seeming to be relatively flat in signature to me.



Do give them some more time. I find that they open up nicely, as with other headphones and speakers, sound changes as they continue to break in. Originally, I thought they were too warm and the top end seemed rolled off. But this is one phone you definitely can't judge until they have a good number of hours on them. Maybe my hearing isn't as sensitive, or perhaps it's my equipment, but I don't find them fatiguing in the least. I agree that they are well extended both up and down, and nicely balanced.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Any recommendation for a 1-100$ earbud with good round thick bass and nice layering, details and soundstage that will suit well complex bassy Electronic Music?????

None in my collection can be use for electronic....I even begin to think it's impossible to achieve with earbud, but there 2 drivers one and hifi stuff...just wonder if in sub-100$ something exist.

Thanks for any suggestions!


----------



## noknok23

Don't want to act like a broken record but a discounted Seahf 650 (around $90) is what you need.


----------



## ClieOS

Electronic music usually goes well with a sound signature that is heavier on bass and treble but a little recessed on the mid - a v-shaped sound, so to speak.


----------



## flexy321 (Jun 5, 2017)

Ok folks finally got my monks.

While I think they are good, and definitely provide value for their costs (and, uhm, foams now for years with the Ex-Pack, I must have 50+ something foams now..lol), I think I'd slightly prefer the SH3800s, now speaking from my subjective sound preference. (I am a total "V Man", now speaking in EQ language  Bass is sufficient w/ the monks (with EQ), and driver matching is good. Can't complain really.

But I *would* prefer the SHE3800s simply because their bass is punchier, more subbass I guess with less need for EQing to get there, again this is subjective, for others the bass of the SHE3800 is just way over the top (which I don't even want to argue, it's insane).

The BIG problem with the SHE3800s however is their build quality. The first set of my SHEs basically blew after 8 days just because I had them a little too loud by mistake (yeah blowing or sucking air on the drivers, I tried this to fix them, but didn't help)...and the other set of SHEs (although this was the one I modded) has TERRIBLE mismatched drivers. Not sure whether this was already before I modded them, anyway I did a test with them using an online tone generator, and basically a good range around 6k vanishes from the right driver. 6k sinus is literally gone. So basically, if you do a simple test of earbuds w/ a frequency sweep and sound disappearing like this..not good.

I still didn't buy/test the Qian39 tho. I can imagine them being good if they can deliver punch like the "Philips", maybe a tad less overdone, and then with better build quality. Even if the SHE3800 had initially the "best" sound for me, I can't recommend them if they don't last longer than a week. So, winner so far, overall, the Monks. Not "spectacular", but then maybe for the price, yes.


----------



## Ver JJ

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Any recommendation for a 1-100$ earbud with good round thick bass and nice layering, details and soundstage that will suit well complex bassy Electronic Music?????
> 
> None in my collection can be use for electronic....I even begin to think it's impossible to achieve with earbud, but there 2 drivers one and hifi stuff...just wonder if in sub-100$ something exist.
> 
> Thanks for any suggestions!





ClieOS said:


> Electronic music usually goes well with a sound signature that is heavier on bass and treble but a little recessed on the mid - a v-shaped sound, so to speak.



Well in my opinion, ty hi-z 32s perform quite well when plying back EDM track as it has the most bass out of all of my collections.


----------



## golov17

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Any recommendation for a 1-100$ earbud with good round thick bass and nice layering, details and soundstage that will suit well complex bassy Electronic Music?????
> 
> None in my collection can be use for electronic....I even begin to think it's impossible to achieve with earbud, but there 2 drivers one and hifi stuff...just wonder if in sub-100$ something exist.
> 
> Thanks for any suggestions!


Ostry kc08t


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Ver JJ said:


> Well in my opinion, ty hi-z 32s perform quite well when plying back EDM track as it has the most bass out of all of my collections.



Thanks for advice....but I already got them and do not fall in love with it, perhaps I should burn them in more...and find them too in my mountain of earphone-earbuds.

About eaburds, I do not search for a ''compromise'' here, but a real performer that will have a good sound layering and quite clear soundstage that have dedicated bass, mid and highs performance...I search to find the sensation of hearing I have with big speaker around me, need to feel some kick and hear some sub rumble, have wide mids (if possible) and good treble extension and details retreival. Mrz Tomohawk still are the only earbud to provide real wow effect that do not feel bloated at some point, sound is airy and have air between instruments too wich is rarely the case with the earbuds I have that feel too fowards and ''monochrome''.

IEM have no trouble to provide round bass...even for a non-bass head, jazz can sound boring without low end extension


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

golov17 said:


> Ostry kc08t



OH, big thank, they look very interesting but is it possible to find them under 100$? and if so....please tell mate.


----------



## Ver JJ

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Thanks for advice....but I already got them and do not fall in love with it, perhaps I should burn them in more...and find them too in my mountain of earphone-earbuds.
> 
> About eaburds, I do not search for a ''compromise'' here, but a real performer that will have a good sound layering and quite clear soundstage that have dedicated bass, mid and highs performance...I search to find the sensation of hearing I have with big speaker around me, need to feel some kick and hear some sub rumble, have wide mids (if possible) and good treble extension and details retreival. Mrz Tomohawk still are the only earbud to provide real wow effect that do not feel bloated at some point, sound is airy and have air between instruments too wich is rarely the case with the earbuds I have that feel too fowards and ''monochrome''.
> 
> IEM have no trouble to provide round bass...even for a non-bass head, jazz can sound boring without low end extension



I see...well I will make it short...it sound a little in my face and at first I did find the highs to be a little bright. But after burning it in, those harshness were gone. Now the biggest problem is its bass....well not trying to complain since it sounds airly but I find it to be a little too "boosted" to suit those classical songs.


----------



## ozkan

flexy321 said:


> Ok folks finally got my monks.
> 
> While I think they are good, and definitely provide value for their costs (and, uhm, foams now for years with the Ex-Pack, I must have 50+ something foams now..lol), I think I'd slightly prefer the SH3800s, now speaking from my subjective sound preference. (I am a total "V Man", now speaking in EQ language  Bass is sufficient w/ the monks (with EQ), and driver matching is good. Can't complain really.
> 
> ...



Try Vido. I think you'll like them more than your SHE3800


----------



## headjelly

noknok23 said:


> a discounted Seahf 650 (around $90) is what you need.



Hey, where is it sold for $90? I can only see them in the 115-120 range.


----------



## AkashS04

Got Vido with Mic. Good but I am feeling that the one without mic has some more details than with mic. It seems to be some beats and thumps are missing in Mic version. Not sure if this is initial feeling and with some usage, it will sound same like without mic one. Did anyone notice this?


----------



## noknok23

headjelly said:


> Hey, where is it sold for $90? I can only see them in the 115-120 range.


Ask seller for "Head-Fi" discount ,
One, I can't remember the name, offered very good price


----------



## actorlife

ozkan said:


> Try Vido. I think you'll like them more than your SHE3800


Do they sell them on ebay or gearbest? Don't wanna deal with Ali.


----------



## Saoshyant

actorlife said:


> Do they sell them on ebay or gearbest? Don't wanna deal with Ali.



I was a little apprehensive at first, but it's really just like buying from Amazon with a long wait time.  Better luck than with eBay too.


----------



## rahmish

Saoshyant said:


> I was a little apprehensive at first, but it's really just like buying from Amazon with a long wait time.  Better luck than with eBay too.


Yeah,I never had a problems with Ali,ordered many times!


----------



## Ira Delphic

The EB200 just landed -  amazing for the price. For any price. The looks...nothing special, but the soundstage is wide, high, resolution warm, accurate bass, overall warm sound. Before buying a TOTL earbud you may want to check them out. Maasaki Suzuku Bach, Motorhead, various electronic music, Indie, we have an allrounder here.

By the way, I got EPK1 and will be selling in the marketplace soon for a good price. I listened to them for about 10 minutes and not needed since redundant. PM if interested, US only.


----------



## noknok23 (Jun 6, 2017)

What would you compare EB200 with? Did you try with the zishan z1? I was afraid it would be too warm to my taste. At the end, I never use pk2 from Nicehck. I'd like an improved version of Epk1 personally. btw, feel free to burn Epk1 for 100hr or something to get rid of harshness.


----------



## Ira Delphic

noknok23 said:


> What would you compare EB200 with? Did you try with the zishan z1? I was afraid it would be too warm to my taste. At the end, I never use pk2 from Nicehck. I'd like an improved version of Epk1 personally. btw, feel free to burn Epk1 for 100hr or something to get rid of harshness.



First reaction to the EPK1...not liking the sound signature. Harsh and bright, minimal bass. I haven't tried the zishan z1. I also like the Nicehck PK2, but I think the B200 is even better. 

The Yincrow X6 also arrived. Very nice bass as expected.  I have an LG V10 and it is picky about plugs and the X6 has contact issues (again fault of my phone). Other earbuds have no problem with the plug and I have $1 3.5mm jack extenders that solve the problem. I'll also try alcohol to clean the jack. Since my V10 is out of warranty I really need to replace the 3.5mm earphone jack. Cheap and easy...


----------



## actorlife

Saoshyant said:


> I was a little apprehensive at first, but it's really just like buying from Amazon with a long wait time.  Better luck than with eBay too.



Got a link?  thanks


----------



## actorlife (Jun 6, 2017)

Qian25
DIY EMX500
Boarseman K25
Sony MD E808LP
Rock Pop Jazz, etc. 
Need clarity on mids/highs and good punchy Bass. In which order would you choose?
Gracias.


----------



## upsguys88

noknok23 said:


> Ask seller for "Head-Fi" discount ,
> One, I can't remember the name, offered very good price


do you know which one?


----------



## ricesteam

New toys from NICEHCK just arrived: Vido and EB200. 

My impressions so far:

Personally, the Vido has dethroned the Monk Plus for me. It does everything the Monk Plus does, but with a warmer bass. It's a fun earbud that's for sure.  The only problem is the j-cable (no-mic version).  I find it not as comfortable as y-cables.

Now for the EB200. Wow. The price per performance ratio is amazing. Nice wide soundstage, great bass, nice details. Some highs are too bright for my tastes, but still good. Overall a warm earbud. Bass is more controlled over the Vido's.  Good separation between the instruments, but I find the vocals very close up, like to my face, for certain songs.

The build is decent. The cabling, although not eye-catching, is clean and classy.  It comes with a nice carrying case, a shirt clip, and extra foams of different colors and types.

It cannot beat my TOTL earbuds like Yuin PK1 or VE Zen 1.0, but those cost 10 times more. But man, for $14-$20, you getting your bang-for-buck hifi value because they sound pretty good and comes in a nice package.


----------



## slappypete

Anyone want to sell a Zen 1? if so shoot me a pm.


----------



## noknok23

Hello, i am looking to trade my cypherus blue darth 2.5mm BAL. Analog sound with bass emphasis, low impedance. If you are interested, PM!


----------



## upsguys88

noknok23 said:


> Thanks, I will try the Vietnamese diy version of shozy bk actually... Eliking or something



what are these?


----------



## pr0b3r

Cayin i5 + iBasso PB3 + Sennheiser MX365


----------



## noknok23 (Jun 7, 2017)

upsguys88 said:


> what are these?








I am very hype about these. It's 150ohm. Waiting to see how much is balanced edition


----------



## Saoshyant

noknok23 said:


> Hello, i am looking to trade my cypherus blue darth 2.5mm BAL. Analog sound with bass emphasis, low impedance. If you are interested, PM!



Is there something in particular you're looking to trade for?


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi (Jun 7, 2017)

Any ToTL Earbud you guys could recommend for *Trip Hop* & *Jazz* type of Music?


----------



## endia

noknok23 said:


> I am very hype about these. It's 150ohm. Waiting to see how much is balanced edition



how to contact him? i have no fb account. thanks..


----------



## Saoshyant

MidNighTempest said:


> Any ToTL Earbud you guys could recommend for *Trip Hop* & *Jazz* type of Music?



How strong do you need your bass, because I do enjoy Portishead with CampFred quite a bit, although for some it might not be enough bass.


----------



## noknok23 (Jun 7, 2017)

Saoshyant said:


> How strong do you need your bass, because I do enjoy Portishead with CampFred quite a bit, although for some it might not be enough bass.


Did you tried Campfred Balanced? I was surprised how much the bass improved.

@endia I don't know, will ask about e-mail contact and pm you


----------



## endia

noknok23 said:


> Did you tried Campfred Balanced? I was surprised how much the bass improved.
> 
> @endia I don't know, will ask about e-mail contact and pm you



great! thanks a lot..


----------



## Saoshyant

noknok23 said:


> Did you tried Campfred Balanced? I was surprised how much the bass improved.
> 
> @endia I don't know, will ask about e-mail contact and pm you



Sadly no, mine was a demo pair that I bought used.


----------



## noknok23 (Jun 7, 2017)

@Saoshyant it's quite easy to reterminate cables are separated and jack is very easy to open. Right is marked by a blue shade.

The only tricky thing is to not revert the ground cable. Or you have a veiled mono sound. Double check before applying the heat shrink.

If you have a balanced source, it's a must. Cf1 has so much potential to scale.


----------



## Ira Delphic

endia said:


> how to contact him? i have no fb account. thanks..



Have a head-fi member PM him on fb with your email address. I have a tinfoil hat when it comes to fb so I can't be of help.


----------



## luckyeights (Jun 7, 2017)

I have made a grave massive mistake.  A long while back i purchased a pair of sony e808+s off alliexpress and when they arrived I was already happy with my qian39s so i tossed them in a drawer and never opened them.   Today while gong through the drawer i found them and was like what the heck ill try them today....... OMG!!!!!! the BASSSSSSSSS  iv never heard so much bass and sub bass from anything like this ever this is some sort of freaking magic trick.  Like who the heck used a time space compression device and put a 10 inch woofer in this thing?  Anyone know where i can buy more of these things the listing i originally purchased from has long since been removed and now i must baby these.  Only ones i can find now are the 808pl version on ebay and i dont know if they will sound like this or not.

Sadly though they are not very comfortable and they sound a little thin in the mid range but if your looking for some bass buds these things are pretty amazing at least i think so.


----------



## KookaBurrra

SONY MDR-E808+ on ebay.fr : http://www.ebay.fr/itm/272661508157


----------



## AkashS04

luckyeights said:


> I have made a grave massive mistake.  A long while back i purchased a pair of sony e808+s off alliexpress and when they arrived I was already happy with my qian39s so i tossed them in a drawer and never opened them.   Today while gong through the drawer i found them and was like what the heck ill try them today....... OMG!!!!!! the BASSSSSSSSS  iv never heard so much bass and sub bass from anything like this ever this is some sort of freaking magic trick.  Like who the heck used a time space compression device and put a 10 inch woofer in this thing?  Anyone know where i can buy more of these things the listing i originally purchased from has long since been removed and now i must baby these.  Only ones i can find now are the 808pl version on ebay and i dont know if they will sound like this or not.
> 
> Sadly though they are not very comfortable and they sound a little thin in the mid range but if your looking for some bass buds these things are pretty amazing at least i think so.


How are the in details? Good details but warmness and smoothness too?


----------



## AkashS04

Vido with mic lacks complete details. Just heavy sound I am hearing and no details at all it seems. Still giving it some time. Need to compare with and without mic together to confirm this.


----------



## golov17

luckyeights said:


> I have made a grave massive mistake.  A long while back i purchased a pair of sony e808+s off alliexpress and when they arrived I was already happy with my qian39s so i tossed them in a drawer and never opened them.   Today while gong through the drawer i found them and was like what the heck ill try them today....... OMG!!!!!! the BASSSSSSSSS  iv never heard so much bass and sub bass from anything like this ever this is some sort of freaking magic trick.  Like who the heck used a time space compression device and put a 10 inch woofer in this thing?  Anyone know where i can buy more of these things the listing i originally purchased from has long since been removed and now i must baby these.  Only ones i can find now are the 808pl version on ebay and i dont know if they will sound like this or not.
> 
> Sadly though they are not very comfortable and they sound a little thin in the mid range but if your looking for some bass buds these things are pretty amazing at least i think so.


Yeah.. modded pair ))


----------



## luckyeights

AkashS04 said:


> How are the in details? Good details but warmness and smoothness too?



I really like their sound signature they are very enjoyable to listen to. I would not call these warm or cold they are very neutral in that regard.  The sony e808+s are airy sounding not hollow but airy and the bass is very prominent and goes very low compared to all the earbuds I have.  The mids i would say are slightly thin and slightly recessed but not so much so as to cause any concern or deterrence in my opinion.  Vocals sound very clear.  The qian 39s are warmer than the e808+s but they sacrifice some of that airy clarity that the e808+s have.    In all honesty they are both very good and very enjoyable earbuds.   They are both cheap enough to get both and try them out.  

I own the ty650, Rose Masya, monk plus, qian 39 and the e808+ in earbuds and i own the Hifiman he400i, akg 7xx and audio technica m50s.

Out of earbuds my two favorite are the qian 39 and this sony e808+ as they are both very enjoyable to listen to and have very good detail.  They also present music in a way that can put a smile on your face and to me that is what music is all about. I would recommend buying both as they are both extremely cheap and determine which of the two you like best or in my case i like both just wish the e808+s were a little more comfortable i will probably try to do some shell mods to make them more comfortable.


----------



## KookaBurrra

AkashS04 said:


> Vido with mic lacks complete details. Just heavy sound I am hearing and no details at all it seems. Still giving it some time. Need to compare with and without mic together to confirm this.



It's not necessary to spam this message in multiple threats, you know... https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/absolute-best-budget-earbuds.812853/page-96#post-13533462
Only once is enough, right?


----------



## fairx

luckyeights said:


> I have made a grave massive mistake.  A long while back i purchased a pair of sony e808+s off alliexpress and when they arrived I was already happy with my qian39s so i tossed them in a drawer and never opened them.   Today while gong through the drawer i found them and was like what the heck ill try them today....... OMG!!!!!! the BASSSSSSSSS  iv never heard so much bass and sub bass from anything like this ever this is some sort of freaking magic trick.  Like who the heck used a time space compression device and put a 10 inch woofer in this thing?  Anyone know where i can buy more of these things the listing i originally purchased from has long since been removed and now i must baby these.  Only ones i can find now are the 808pl version on ebay and i dont know if they will sound like this or not.
> 
> Sadly though they are not very comfortable and they sound a little thin in the mid range but if your looking for some bass buds these things are pretty amazing at least i think so.



That is some great praise for the e808. I own own one and didn't like it because of peak issue. Maybe just my build. But now maybe i should dig it back and listen. 

Truth is I always been fan of VE porous foam. I just recently found full foam is not that bad.


----------



## fairx (Jun 7, 2017)

I  did dig back my drawer and found e808. This time put donuts foam.

 Yes it's very airy, detail. Dynamic with lots of depth and tight punchy bass with almost no decay and absolutely no bleed at all.

Wow what a treat listening to SOAD and Mars Volta. the energy is indeed very very good.

But it also reminds me why i left it in the drawer. The highs although very extended (beyond ty32) seems rather unnatural for me. On some track it sound like I'm hearing splashy 64kbps mp3. Maybe it's just me. Maybe i should burn  this one longer. didn't even have reach 100 hour before i retired it months ago.

Edit. Listening to Tipe-X now. Wow also very nice. Tipe-X old album always has great depth, and hard hitting bass.


----------



## luckyeights

fairx said:


> I  did dig back my drawer and found e808. This time put donuts foam.
> 
> Yes it's very airy, detail. Dynamic with lots of depth and tight punchy bass with almost no decay and absolutely no bleed at all.
> 
> ...



What track are you listening to so that i may see if i hear it as well.  I listened to a couple songs with piano, and female vocalists and didnt notice anything in the high range that was bothersome.  Oh i forgot until i was thinking of cringy highs i also have that pt15 with the metal housings some where that thing has annoying highs but didnt notice anything with these as of yet.


----------



## fairx

luckyeights said:


> What track are you listening to so that i may see if i hear it as well.  I listened to a couple songs with piano, and female vocalists and didnt notice anything in the high range that was bothersome.  Oh i forgot until i was thinking of cringy highs i also have that pt15 with the metal housings some where that thing has annoying highs but didnt notice anything with these as of yet.



If you have access to stick figure - smokin love or Ariana Grande side to side. This 2 song show excessive problem with the highs i mentioned.

Remember how bad mp3 highs sound like? That what I'm  hearing although the mp3 itself is 320kbps. I can hear the same with Spotify extreme..

Obviously not all songs react like this. Maybe 10-15% of the time. Like i said maybe I just got bad batch.  But yes e808 have a very good  depth.


----------



## actorlife

actorlife said:


> Qian25
> DIY EMX500
> Boarseman K25
> Sony MD E808LP
> ...


Bump


----------



## endia

Ira Delphic said:


> Have a head-fi member PM him on fb with your email address. I have a tinfoil hat when it comes to fb so I can't be of help.



thanks anyway


----------



## ctaxxxx

Just got the ibasso DX200 today! Apparently they have a burn in cable. That's a first. ...Anyway, these things are insane! Tried the Diomnes Lv2 with the standard AMP1 and, compared to the FiiO X5 3rd gen, it was like I was listening to a Diomnes Lv3 or something. The soundstage was even larger! Compared it to the HD 800 S (just sold these so its my last day with them), and they were pretty damn close! (nearly same depth, but not quite in width)

Really can't wait for CAX Black now. It's been stuck in Indonesia for a week though ever since it shipped (or the tracking never updated)...


----------



## golov17

ctaxxxx said:


> Just got the ibasso DX200 today! Really can't wait for CAX Black now. It's been stuck in Indonesia for a week though ever since it shipped (or the tracking never updated)...



 Patient waiting is part of our game ..


----------



## Cyperus

ctaxxxx said:


> Just got the ibasso DX200 today! Apparently they have a burn in cable. That's a first. ...Anyway, these things are insane! Tried the Diomnes Lv2 with the standard AMP1 and, compared to the FiiO X5 3rd gen, it was like I was listening to a Diomnes Lv3 or something. The soundstage was even larger! Compared it to the HD 800 S (just sold these so its my last day with them), and they were pretty damn close! (nearly same depth, but not quite in width)
> 
> Really can't wait for CAX Black now. It's been stuck in Indonesia for a week though ever since it shipped (or the tracking never updated)...



I have send another CAX black to Thailand in the same day and he already received the package. I think EMS just not updating the tracking. Please wait


----------



## chaiyuta

Oh curious who is from Thailand...


----------



## Dark Helmet

ClieOS said:


> My top choices for really airy sound will be: Rose Tech Mojito > MusicMaker / Toneking TY2 > Moondrop VX Pro.
> 
> 
> 
> The truth is, if I have to use chin slider on earbuds, I might as well use IEM instead.


How is the bass on the Rose Mojito?


----------



## Dark Helmet

nmatheis said:


> PSA: I got scammed by BhoBuds.com, which is associated with Vapman. Please avoid it like the plague!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No wonder he hasn't been on the Walnut forums lately.


----------



## Danneq

ctaxxxx said:


> Just got the ibasso DX200 today! Apparently they have a burn in cable. That's a first. ...Anyway, these things are insane! Tried the Diomnes Lv2 with the standard AMP1 and, compared to the FiiO X5 3rd gen, it was like I was listening to a Diomnes Lv3 or something. The soundstage was even larger! Compared it to the HD 800 S (just sold these so its my last day with them), and they were pretty damn close! (nearly same depth, but not quite in width)
> 
> Really can't wait for CAX Black now. It's been stuck in Indonesia for a week though ever since it shipped (or the tracking never updated)...



Have you heard the DX100? Diomnes Lv2 do sound amazing with the DX100, but I notice a slight tendency toward sharp treble. The synergy is better with Questyle QP1R, which has got slightly less "sparkly" highs than DX100. The soundstage on Diomnes Lv2 is deeper than on CAX Black, but I have to say that I find CAX black to have one of the most natural sound signatures I have heard in an earbud. That is why I have called it "reference headphone sounding".  But Lv2 is second to none when it comes to soundstage depth...


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Everyone running "high end" earbuds. I was hoping to get more opinions on the "Zen 2.0 Black Edition" from people...


----------



## CharlesRievone

WayTooCrazy said:


> Everyone running "high end" earbuds. I was hoping to get more opinions on the "Zen 2.0 Black Edition" from people...


What specific opinion are you looking for with the Zen Blacks?


----------



## WayTooCrazy

CharlesRievone said:


> What specific opinion are you looking for with the Zen Blacks?



Anything in general. What people thought of them. How they compared to other high end buds, etc.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Danneq said:


> Have you heard the DX100? Diomnes Lv2 do sound amazing with the DX100, but I notice a slight tendency toward sharp treble. The synergy is better with Questyle QP1R, which has got slightly less "sparkly" highs than DX100. The soundstage on Diomnes Lv2 is deeper than on CAX Black, but I have to say that I find CAX black to have one of the most natural sound signatures I have heard in an earbud. That is why I have called it "reference headphone sounding".  But Lv2 is second to none when it comes to soundstage depth...


This is my first iBasso dap. Before I was strictly Zune, and then FiiO. I like the interface for the DX200 much better. I find the treble more detailed, not too sharp. I'm not treble sensitive though. I bought the AMP2 as well, which is supposed to be warmer like the X5III, so I'm hoping that will smooth things over for the harsher songs (haven't listened to it yet).



WayTooCrazy said:


> Everyone running "high end" earbuds. I was hoping to get more opinions on the "Zen 2.0 Black Edition" from people...


I was thinking about getting these so I can make some more TOTL comparison's. I didn't like the regular versions though, so I would like to see if I can find some used first.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

ctaxxxx said:


> I was thinking about getting these so I can make some more TOTL comparison's. I didn't like the regular versions though, so I would like to see if I can find some used first.



What didn't you like about the regular Zen (2.0 correct)?  I have both, and they do sound a bit different. I have about 160hrs on the Normal Zen and about 230hrs on the Black (due to burn-in for both). I find that they are different, but what didn't you like about the original? I'm looking to branch out and try more ToTL buds... just want a different signature or go better... but I don't want to go worse, especially since returning them is near impossible.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Too much mid-bass and treble roll-off. Too much warmth for my tastes. Wasn't crazy about the sticky cable either. But I heard that the black version clears all that up. Guess I'll see.

For other TOTL, you can never go wrong with Cypherus buds. Avoid QFred, since they have the same sound signature (though I prefer these over Zen 2.0 regular). Other buds like Diomnes have really limited stock, so they are hard to get (I was lucky on snagging a Lv2). You can check the list in my signature for impressions on buds I've heard. It's pending a 2.0 update though lol.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

ctaxxxx said:


> Too much mid-bass and treble roll-off. Too much warmth for my tastes. Wasn't crazy about the sticky cable either. But I heard that the black version clears all that up. Guess I'll see.
> 
> For other TOTL, you can never go wrong with Cypherus buds. Avoid QFred, since they have the same sound signature (though I prefer these over Zen 2.0 regular). Other buds like Diomnes have really limited stock, so they are hard to get (I was lucky on snagging a Lv2). You can check the list in my signature for impressions on buds I've heard. It's pending a 2.0 update though lol.



I agree on the cable and your perception of the Zen 2.0 in general. I believe it does change a bit with burn-in, but it is not going to change all that much. I HATE the cable. I'm probably going to swap it for an SPC one, which should help a bit with the thickness and increase the upper mids and treble as well.  Will see. I wouldn't mind a different color housing either.  The cable on the black is crazy stiff though. I think it is a silly move not to include at least an "o" ring as a slider. I'll probably source one of those as well and undo the XLR that mine is terminated with to slide that on.


----------



## ProLoL (Jun 8, 2017)

Guess what's in the box


----------



## WayTooCrazy

ProLoL said:


> Guess what's in the box



I can't see... I need a bigger monitor.


----------



## ProLoL

Fixed


----------



## WayTooCrazy

I like the presentation, don't know much about those buds... would like to give them a shot.


----------



## noknok23 (Jun 8, 2017)

@WayTooCrazy The ultimate TOTL right know might be Shozy Stardust (neutral bright) or Cypherus CampFred (neutral warm, fun-ish) I haven't bought Campfred 2 yet but I love the first one. Go balanced if you can 

@ctaxxxx You should consider the Blur, beautiful mid centric with uncanny clarity and wide soundstage. +the build is very nice. it's so pretty, feel like wearing jewerly.
Would love to have your feedback on them.


----------



## audio123

https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/pmv-b01-aoede.22436/reviews

enjoy my review guys. happy reading!


----------



## WayTooCrazy

noknok23 said:


> @WayTooCrazy The ultimate TOTL right know might be Shozy Stardust (neutral bright) or Cypherus CampFred (neutral warm, fun-ish) I haven't bought Campfred 2 yet but I love the first one. Go balanced if you can
> 
> @ctaxxxx You should consider the Blur, beautiful mid centric with uncanny clarity and wide soundstage. +the build is very nice. it's so pretty, feel like wearing jewerly.
> Would love to have your feedback on them.



That's why I'm looking for more impressions on the Zen 2.0 Black Edition and how they stack up against other 'buds.  I spent a pretty penny on the Zen 2.0 Standard and Zen 2.0 Black Edition... and would like to know where I'm going before spending anything else on a lateral or worse, going backwards in SQ.


----------



## golov17

audio123 said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/pmv-b01-aoede.22436/reviews
> 
> enjoy my review guys. happy reading!


Use them with MP foams, much better. IMHO


----------



## golov17

New Jim NiceHCK earbuds 200 Ohm have BLOX breed, nice


----------



## golov17 (Jun 8, 2017)




----------



## audio123

http://penonaudio.com/Earphones/earbuds/Penon-Audio-BS1-Dynamic-Driver-Earbud

shall try this! looks interesting like tp16


----------



## boblauer

audio123 said:


> http://penonaudio.com/Earphones/earbuds/Penon-Audio-BS1-Dynamic-Driver-Earbud
> 
> shall try this! looks interesting like tp16



TP16 does not use those shells but the cable on TP16 is like that.


----------



## endia

golov17 said:


> New Jim NiceHCK earbuds 200 Ohm have BLOX breed, nice



how do you compare it with nicehck diy pk2? thanks..


----------



## guacko

Hi!
What are MP foams? There are different kind of foams?
Monk foams are slimmer than others like ty, vido,...but does this affect the sound.
And donuts vs full foams?
Thanks!


----------



## Dark Helmet

Where the Diomnes Lv2 available for purchase?


----------



## Dark Helmet

guacko said:


> Hi!
> What are MP foams? There are different kind of foams?
> Monk foams are slimmer than others like ty, vido,...but does this affect the sound.
> And donuts vs full foams?
> Thanks!


I believe MP foams are Monk Plus foams and yes varying thicknesses of foams will affect the sound as do the donuts.


----------



## guacko

Dark Helmet said:


> I believe MP foams are Monk Plus foams and yes varying thicknesses of foams will affect the sound as do the donuts.


Could you be more specific about how it affects? Or maybe a link to that information.  
Thanks


----------



## Dark Helmet

guacko said:


> Could you be more specific about how it affects? Or maybe a link to that information.
> Thanks


The results will be different for every earbud.  for instance the MP foams are very porous yet will help to attenuate the highs a bit and perhaps give the bass a bit more size.  Where as a donut will five you more highs yet still attenuating the rear ports.  perhaps someone else can chime in , but this the jist of it. Foams also add comfort and fit properties as well.


----------



## noknok23

guacko said:


> Could you be more specific about how it affects? Or maybe a link to that information.
> Thanks


check the review of the monk+ from Brooko, very instructive


----------



## WayTooCrazy

@ctaxxxx They do sound different...


----------



## noknok23

Are you amping with ra2 balanced? What source?


----------



## WayTooCrazy

noknok23 said:


> Are you amping with ra2 balanced? What source?



Right now, mostly the X5iii, I was using the Mojo and I'm still on the hunt for a proper DAP that will output using Balanced line-out.


----------



## ctaxxxx (Jun 8, 2017)

WayTooCrazy said:


> Right now, mostly the X5iii, I was using the Mojo and I'm still on the hunt for a proper DAP that will output using Balanced line-out.


You're using a warm source with warm earbuds?! That would be overkill for me! (I haven't actually heard the Mojo though)

If it's not out of your budget, I would recommend the DX200 that I got recently. Even my headphones (that I've decided to keep) sound really different. Been listening to the AMP2 as well, and its the perfect balance of warmth and detail (where the X5iii was too much warmth for me). Pretty sure I prefer it over the AMP1 now. Works amazing as a USB DAC too. Running it through my Liquid Carbon amp.

If it is out of budget, Onkyo DP-X1A (or the cheaper Pioneer look-a-like) is another good sub-$1k DAP that I've heard. Better implementation of the balanced connection over the X5iii. It's more of a neutral signature though, so it may sound bright coming from the X5iii. No interchangeable amps either.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

@ctaxxxx Does it have a dedicated Balanced Line-Out?


----------



## Ver JJ

luckyeights said:


> I have made a grave massive mistake.  A long while back i purchased a pair of sony e808+s off alliexpress and when they arrived I was already happy with my qian39s so i tossed them in a drawer and never opened them.   Today while gong through the drawer i found them and was like what the heck ill try them today....... OMG!!!!!! the BASSSSSSSSS  iv never heard so much bass and sub bass from anything like this ever this is some sort of freaking magic trick.  Like who the heck used a time space compression device and put a 10 inch woofer in this thing?  Anyone know where i can buy more of these things the listing i originally purchased from has long since been removed and now i must baby these.  Only ones i can find now are the 808pl version on ebay and i dont know if they will sound like this or not.
> 
> Sadly though they are not very comfortable and they sound a little thin in the mid range but if your looking for some bass buds these things are pretty amazing at least i think so.



I think every Sony mini (cheapest) mp3 player comes with it.


----------



## ClieOS

Ver JJ said:


> I think every Sony mini (cheapest) mp3 player comes with it.



Actually E808+ is a made-up model produced by the Chinese using fake Sony earbuds' shell. The same is true to SHE3800 which Phillips never produces.


----------



## golov17

guacko said:


> Hi!
> What are MP foams? There are different kind of foams?
> Monk foams are slimmer than others like ty, vido,...but does this affect the sound.
> And donuts vs full foams?
> Thanks!


MP foams have better acoustical transparency and delicately mix driver sound like no other. With bright earbuds, it can be redundant, but for dark-sounding, this is the best thing that is invented for my taste. Simply, buy ExPack from VE and check ..
 
http://s.aliexpress.com/eEVRfU7z


----------



## golov17

endia said:


> how do you compare it with nicehck diy pk2? thanks..


Other sig, other size, both good, Docomo have close, EB200 more open sounds


----------



## actorlife

Link to the famous vido earbud ?


----------



## ctaxxxx (Jun 8, 2017)

WayTooCrazy said:


> @ctaxxxx Does it have a dedicated Balanced Line-Out?


Not sure. Unlike the FiiO and iBasso DAPs, they don't have a port strictly for line out. It's a mode that you switch to. Balanced output has an ACG mode specific for that port. It's also the only output that utilizes both its internal DACs (for some reason phone out only utilizes one).

I would ask on the forums or research reviews. I believe Line Out is just pushing out max volume though. ACG mode is a different implementation.


----------



## golov17

actorlife said:


> Link to the famous vido earbud ?


http://s.aliexpress.com/FBNfAbUF


----------



## springbay

So I saw that HCK listed the new Moondrop TOTL buds called Liebesleid.
I can't help but think that the word they were looking for was liebeslied and not liebesleid.
Anyhow, for the asking price they better bring joy and not sorrow.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...3-5mm-Dynamic-Driver/1825606_32815340879.html


----------



## WayTooCrazy

What are the most expensive TOTL buds offered right now?


----------



## ctaxxxx

WayTooCrazy said:


> What are the most expensive TOTL buds offered right now?


Cypherus full custom for $500+. That pic ProLoL posted is the case for one of them - the Red Dragon.  He goes in more detail in another thread (LINK).


----------



## springbay

WayTooCrazy said:


> What are the most expensive TOTL buds offered right now?



Probably custom made Cypherus Audio buds. But they will also be one of a kind. Unless you ask Herry in person you will probably not know the price.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

WOW! ...and I thought the VE Zen 2.0 Black Edition were a bit overpriced. Though, only 230hrs in... and they do sound really good. I just might have to toss them back on after I do the 100hrs burn test on the VE Monks (burning for 50hrs then test, then 100 and test). I will be testing them against a fresh out of the pack monks.


----------



## ClieOS (Jun 8, 2017)

springbay said:


> So I saw that HCK listed the new Moondrop TOTL buds called Liebesleid.
> I can't help but think that the word they were looking for was liebeslied and not *liebesleid*.
> Anyhow, for the asking price they better bring joy and not sorrow.



Actually it is indeed liebesleid, means to refer to 'Love's Sorrow', the old musical piece written by Fritz Kreisler.

Anyway, here it is:


















I only spent a couple of minutes on it and now it is on burn-in. I can't give any detailed impression yet but rest assure that there isn't nothing sorrow about its sound. This is a true ToTL, Champion level earbud.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

ClieOS said:


> This is a true ToTL, Champion level earbud.



Don't say this... I have my Credit Card in hand now...


----------



## ClieOS

NiceHCK EB200
NiceHCK DIY PK2
Vido (原道) stock earbud





SeaHF (虫哥) 400ohm new edition
Yinman HiFi (音曼) 醇净2.0 150ohm
MoonDrop (水月雨) Liebesleid (爱之悲)


----------



## Ver JJ

WayTooCrazy said:


> Right now, mostly the X5iii, I was using the Mojo and I'm still on the hunt for a proper DAP that will output using Balanced line-out.



Why not take a look at Aune m1s but you might not like it because its ui is bloody simple.


----------



## Ver JJ

ClieOS said:


> Actually E808+ is a made-up model produced by the Chinese using fake Sony earbuds' shell. The same is true to SHE3800 which Phillips never produces.



Ahh, I see....well those two that are in my collection are from geneune Sony mp3 player.


----------



## ClieOS

Ver JJ said:


> Ahh, I see....well those two that are in my collection are from geneune Sony mp3 player.



Dunno how you'll get Philips earbud with Sony mp3 player - but if you are referring to the Sony, what you have is probably E808, which is an actual Sony model. E808+ however is not.


----------



## noknok23

@WayTooCrazy Aune m1s has balanced line out. With this and Runabout balanced as an amp you can't go wrong. Wild Lee himself would use that setup.
It's a very basic audio player with very good sound. Very close to neutral, more analytical. Excellent for warm earbuds like the Zen. And I'd say, very good for high end stuff in general.
However I have friends telling me about dx200 and it sounds excellent. If you got money to spend, go for it. Seems to be the ultimate.

 Very high end earbuds can "feel" overpriced. You enter the world of diminishing returns. The best deals with earbuds is in the sub-$50 area. price to quality in that area is unmatched. Some peoples are more happy with their $3 earbuds than $100 one


----------



## golov17 (Jun 9, 2017)

TOTL?


----------



## rkw

WayTooCrazy said:


> What are the most expensive TOTL buds offered right now?





ctaxxxx said:


> Cypherus full custom for $500+.


Keep in mind, that's a bargain compared to how much you can spend on a high end IEM or headphone.


----------



## teston

golov17 said:


> TOTL


I tried these buds. Nice open and magical mid. But thin on bass and a little bright. Similar signature to blue demun I assume.


----------



## kurtextrem

ClieOS said:


> NiceHCK EB200
> NiceHCK DIY PK2
> Vido (原道) stock earbud
> 
> ...



Would love to hear your opinion on the new SeaHF bud and the NiceHCK buds


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Ver JJ said:


> Why not take a look at Aune m1s but you might not like it because its ui is bloody simple.



I ordered, then cancelled this player as I heard it had issues with large capacity MicroSD cards. If I can find one on Amazon Prime, I'll give it a shot. That way, if it doesn't work out, I can return it. Much harder to return to overseas companies.


----------



## Fabi (Jun 9, 2017)

WayTooCrazy said:


> What are the most expensive TOTL buds offered right now?


For earbuds more expensive than Zen 2.0 Black, there is:

Frigga DS1 from Thailand, $750
Japan K2Craft 925 silver housing earbuds, $400+

I've never seen any owners of them so far hahaha..


----------



## Ver JJ

ClieOS said:


> Dunno how you'll get Philips earbud with Sony mp3 player - but if you are referring to the Sony, what you have is probably E808, which is an actual Sony model. E808+ however is not.



I see, sorry for the confusion.....



WayTooCrazy said:


> I ordered, then cancelled this player as I heard it had issues with large capacity MicroSD cards. If I can find one on Amazon Prime, I'll give it a shot. That way, if it doesn't work out, I can return it. Much harder to return to overseas companies.



I am currently using a 128gb SandDisk class 10 micro sd card for my Aune m1s and there is only a minimal amount of problem.......but still 128gb......come on the capacity is way too small for me to stuff all of my DSD songs in it.....sad......


----------



## ClieOS

Fabi said:


> For earbuds more expensive than Zen 2.0 Black, there is:
> 
> Frigga DS1 from Thailand, $750
> Japan K2Craft 925 silver housing earbuds, $400+
> ...



Unfortunately price can be as high as someone willing to pay it, yet not necessarily an indication of quality. I listened to some odd ball IEMs that were asking for $2k+ on CanJam Singapore this year, yet I were thinking that those SQ shouldn't have worth half as much.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Ver JJ said:


> I see, sorry for the confusion.....
> 
> 
> 
> I am currently using a 128gb SandDisk class 10 micro sd card for my Aune m1s and there is only a minimal amount of problem.......but still 128gb......come on the capacity is way too small for me to stuff all of my DSD songs in it.....sad......



...and I ONLY have a Samsung 256GB MicroSD... and I've read that the Aune M1S doesn't like Samsung MicroSD for some reason.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

ClieOS said:


> Unfortunately price can be as high as someone willing to pay it, yet not necessarily an indication of quality. I listened to some odd ball IEMs that were asking for $2k+ on CanJam Singapore this year, yet I were thinking that those SQ shouldn't have worth half as much.



Even a $1000 earbud blows my mind.


----------



## Ver JJ

WayTooCrazy said:


> ...and I ONLY have a Samsung 256GB MicroSD... and I've read that the Aune M1S doesn't like Samsung MicroSD for some reason.



Interesting....well sadly I am not a big fan of samsung product......well yeah.....


----------



## Fabi

ClieOS said:


> Unfortunately price can be as high as someone willing to pay it, yet not necessarily an indication of quality. I listened to some odd ball IEMs that were asking for $2k+ on CanJam Singapore this year, yet I were thinking that those SQ shouldn't have worth half as much.


Sure, these earbuds seem to look undoubtedly like serious craftmanship, kind of audio jewelry. Very curious about these two for some time. Unfortunately, I don't have the big wallet to try their sound myself.

So, if some super crazy earbuddies pass by here and feel the irresistible need to pull the trigger on these, I'd be very happy to read their impressions    

Btw, I may know which $2k+ iems you are talking about.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Ver JJ said:


> Interesting....well sadly I am not a big fan of samsung product......well yeah.....



I got it for a crazy price... so I wasn't going to pass on it. The X5iii has "0" issues reading it, so for now... that'll remain my DAP while I keep searching. Thanks for the suggestion though.


----------



## fairx

Interested in NICEHCK eb200. any more impression.?


----------



## golov17 (Jun 9, 2017)

fairx said:


> Interested in NICEHCK eb200. any more impression.?


From FB:
I just wanted to take a minute to blab about the Jim Nicehck EB200 and compare it to some more popular buds that I have on hand. Firstly, it's smooth and powerful. While you can power it directly from an iPhone or So-so DAP, you're best served to give it some juice. I did some initial impressions with my iphone SE, then moved on to a Fiio portable amp, and finally a Denon amp. My other rigs are at work, but I'm looking forward to giving them a go tomorrow, as well as doing a direct comparison with the Zen 2.0. The EB200 scaled as would be expected and sounded more rounded and fuller with more power as one might expect.
The sound,to me, is very balanced. It handles bass quite well and the treble is rolled off enough to accommodate long listening sessions while still giving me a lot of detail. A very slight v shape. There's a maturity here that's unusual for this price range, to be sure. The vocals are forward but there's a good sense of depth and width that is very pleasing. The soundstage is excellent.
Vs Faaeal 32ohm v. 2: The EB200 has a wider soundstage, more bass and scales better to power (which may go without saying). The Faaeal 32 is the clear winner in the treble department, but that's it. Vocals sound more natural and instrument separation is quite a bit better on the EB 200.
Vs Faaeal 64ohm version 2: To preface, I hold the 32's big brother in really high regard. In fact, it may be my favorite budget bud. It's got an excellent midrange with a beautiful bloom in it that warms the vocals and is very pleasing to my ears. The EB200 does not have this, and is not quite up to its level in the mids, however, the sense of depth and width, as well as the scaling to power, allow the EB200 to really shine. It's soundstage eeks out the win for me here. It's very close and depends on what's powering. To be fair, the Faaeal is by no means a slouch with it's soundstage. To me, with only a DAP onhand, I would grab the Faaeal 64 but amped up, it would be the EB200.
Vs Ty Hi-Z 32: I must confess that I'm not a huge fan of the Ty 32. I find it sharp and not particularly good for, you know, listening to music. So that presents an issue. It has sharper treble and very good bass for a 32ohm bud, in my opinion. The EB200 is more pleasant all-around and has a very similiar level of bass from a weaker source (phone etc.). Again, the sound grows, with the bass with more power thrown at it. No contest for me. EB200 ftw.
Vs Vido: ah the Vido. My lil buddy. He's made huge waves in the earbud community and with good reason. Vido's bass is both impressive and perplexing. What has happened to get this amount of bass out of a bud at this price? Just what on God's Green Earth is happening here? Well, Vido fans will be happy to know that this bop machine has won another head-on contest in the bass department. EB200 has excellent, controlled bass but loses to the Vido in this regard. The Vido, to me, is a strange little bud though. It's got all this bass, but it shares virtually none of it with the midrange, which makes it sound rather thin in this department. It's as if I'm listening to music in a car with a so-so system and huge fart box in the trunk. The EB200 is the winner with a more prominent midrange and smoother vocal presentation.
Vs Monk Plus: Do I have to? After all, the Monk is my first child. Hmm, one bud to rule them all though...Well, the thing that always keeps the Monk at the top of the pile for me is the stunning vocal presentation and beautiful range. I do find it a tad fatiguing for long listening sessions however. With thicker foams, that dissipates and the bass blooms out. I do love the Monk, But there's a new kid in town. The Monk, like the Faaeal 64 do scale well with power. They do not scale quite as well as the EB200 though. I would say that the soundstage department is extremely close here. Both buds have good depth and width. The Monk presents more pleasing vocals for me. There's something that other manufacturers simply can't do - a secret sauce if you will, that Venture Electronics has on lock in this department. Both buds have excellent staging, as stated, but the EB200 sounds bigger and thicker. There's an underlying sense of power and its a level up on warmth in the mids. I do have a tough time picking a winner here, and I'd have to listen to the use case in order to make a rec between the 2 really. For example, 70's rock? EB200. Classical? Monk. Jazz? Er, what type of jazz sir? I think you get the point.
And another thing. Nice case! And! Fast shipping 


They're just getting better after 2 Days of nonstop music feeding to them. I'm not a good reviewer I just gonna write what I thought.
First thing notice when put it on instead of Vido that I use before they came.
Of course they can't beat Vido in bass territory... But they definitely not lacking bass. There are upper bass mostly not go so deep.
Soundstage is wide more space between instrument.
Vocal nicely done not as thick as Vido or Yuin PK2 that I have. I don't know right now who's better.
High is more extend, crisp but not so clear.
My view on these buds, they're very good on smaller band music with fewer instrument. Even better with acoustic instrument.
Jack Johnson sounds really great thru them.
For bigger band, full scale music, the sound start to stress which many times I have to skip the tracks.
This is good product and I happy with this purchase.
Now I just wish Jim Nicehck makes dual DD earbuds.


----------



## ctaxxxx

WayTooCrazy said:


> Even a $1000 earbud blows my mind.


Honestly, I think $500 might be my limit for TOTL buds. My praise for them is mainly due to their value (price / sound quality). But at the $1K price, you might as well get a used/new high-end headphone like the HD800S, or invest in a high-end DAP and make your existing earbuds really sing above their price point.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

ctaxxxx said:


> Honestly, I think $500 might be my limit for TOTL buds. My praise for them is mainly due to their value (price / sound quality). But at the $1K price, you might as well get a used/new high-end headphone like the HD800S, or invest in a high-end DAP and make your existing earbuds really sing above their price point.



You and I are on the same page! Next time I go down to the Corporate office (we have one in Atlanta)... I'll have to buzz you so we can do a Mini "earbud" meetup... lol.


----------



## Ver JJ

ctaxxxx said:


> Honestly, I think $500 might be my limit for TOTL buds. My praise for them is mainly due to their value (price / sound quality). But at the $1K price, you might as well get a used/new high-end headphone like the HD800S, or invest in a high-end DAP and make your existing earbuds really sing above their price point.



Well I would have spent that 1000 usd onto tons of earbuds, by tons of earbuds I meant those "cheap/budget" once that you can get from taobao....because why not spend it all to explore more types of sound signature instead of getting one of them and call it a halt.


----------



## springbay

Ver JJ said:


> Well I would have spent that 1000 usd onto tons of earbuds, by tons of earbuds I meant those "cheap/budget" once that you can get from taobao....because why not spend it all to explore more types of sound signature instead of getting one of them and call it a halt.



It's a different matter after you have already found your favourite signature. I've bought a couple of pricey buds after I got my K's 500.
Those pricey buds have nice qualities and are quite fun the first few weeks and even after to play around with every now and then, but I always get back to my K's 500.
Still I'm always interested in finding out if there can be better all-round buds for my taste. And to find something I'll like better I assume they will cost at least around 100€ or more.
But I would have to be extremely sure what I would get if I were to pay more than 200€ for a pair of earbuds...


----------



## Ver JJ

springbay said:


> It's a different matter after you have already found your favourite signature. I've bought a couple of pricey buds after I got my K's 500.
> Those pricey buds have nice qualities and are quite fun the first few weeks and even after to play around with every now and then, but I always get back to my K's 500.
> Still I'm always interested in finding out if there can be better all-round buds for my taste. And to find something I'll like better I assume they will cost at least around 100€ or more.
> But I would have to be extremely sure what I would get if I were to pay more than 200€ for a pair of earbuds...



Yup I will totally agree with you....this happens to my earplugs collection.....well I decided to get with Etymotics ER4S as an upgrade for my HF5 in the future as I prefer more of a cleaner and more simplistic sounding earphone with not a huge quantity of bass or maybe even bassless.....


----------



## ctaxxxx

Ver JJ said:


> Yup I will totally agree with you....this happens to my earplugs collection.....well I decided to get with Etymotics ER4S as an upgrade for my HF5 in the future as I prefer more of a cleaner and more simplistic sounding earphone with not a huge quantity of bass or maybe even bassless.....


Really? I actually had the ER4-XR and still thought that was pretty light on the bass. Extremely accurate IEM, but non-existent soundstage though. Would love to hear an earbud with that level of accuracy and neutrality, which is what I'm hoping the CAX Black will be (if I ever get it!). Only sold mine because I couldn't get it to fit in my ear without lube. And it's really awkward to apply ear lube in work lol.



Ver JJ said:


> Well I would have spent that 1000 usd onto tons of earbuds, by tons of earbuds I meant those "cheap/budget" once that you can get from taobao....because why not spend it all to explore more types of sound signature instead of getting one of them and call it a halt.


There's only so many different types of sound signatures though. Dark, warm, neutral, and bright. Then you get to different implementations. It doesn't take long to find out what signature you like (I prefer neutral with a warm or bright tilt). I go for TOTL earbuds because of the increased resolution, clarity, and soundstage. It's interesting to hear the same songs you've always been listening to at this level, because it feels like you're right there. I've always been an analytical listener though, so I love picking out details, even in warm signatures.


----------



## Dark Helmet (Jun 9, 2017)

Any impressions on the Rose Masya?


----------



## one1speed

Dark Helmet said:


> Any impressions on the Rose Masya?



There has been a fair bit of chatter about this recently on this thread. Basically, it's well worth the $$ if it fits. Fit is a bit tougher than a bud with a more traditional shell. Very smooth and well extended. The review in the reviews section by Bloody Penguin pretty much sums up all that has been said.


----------



## Dark Helmet

one1speed said:


> There has been a fair bit of chatter about this recently on this thread. Basically, it's well worth the $$ if it fits. Fit is a bit tougher than a bud with a more traditional shell. Very smooth and well extended. The review in the reviews section by Bloody Penguin pretty much sums up all that has been said.


I read the review, I was just looking for other impressions.


----------



## siderak

I don't have time to do a big review but I couldn't let another day go buy without highly recommending the "Blur" earbuds from Wong Kuan Wae.
I wanted clarity, instrument separation, superb vocals and great soundstage with a good degree of bass and treble extension. That's exactly what these offer.
I don't know how much more you can ask for from an earbud in this price range but I find I am looking forward to listening to music more. I have isine 20's among other pretty nice ciem's and headphones. Although the isine 20's might be a tad more open sounding and a little airier, I'm reaching for the Blur's more. I can honestly say I probably wouldn't have bought the isine's had I gotten the blur's first. The blur signature is similar to my mr speakers ether c with more thump in the bass. Beautiful clean mids and treble. The ether c's offer a little more resolution but not by much. Not enough to go around town wearing full sized headphones...These are impeccably tuned. Perfect for my taste. I couldn't wish for a better all rounder.
I got the top level "Magic Sound" Blur. "Blur 魔音” - 300ohm drivers , hand twisted OCC SPC wires , hand twisted copper wire splitter, oyaide silver rhodium plug. 
Wong Kuan Wae was very communicative, giving unsolicited updates including pics. He's a super great guy.  
Thanks Bloody Penguin for introducing this phenomenal earphone. 
Whichever Blur model you choose, I think there's a good chance you'll agree it's a no brainer...


----------



## fairx

@golov17 many many thanks. How much do you like eb200 yourself.?


----------



## kfarndog

Dark Helmet said:


> I read the review, I was just looking for other impressions.



The review you read is pretty spot on with my sound impressions of the Masya.  They really play well with a variety of sources.  The big cons I find of the Masya it the fit and the somewhat unruly cable.  The soundstage and detail is great out of them, which covers those small flaws for me.


----------



## golov17

fairx said:


> @golov17 many many thanks. How much do you like eb200 yourself.?


Well, today I spent many hours with them, and I was not tired, but the battery was blown off, lol


----------



## Dark Helmet

kfarndog said:


> The review you read is pretty spot on with my sound impressions of the Masya.  They really play well with a variety of sources.  The big cons I find of the Masya it the fit and the somewhat unruly cable.  The soundstage and detail is great out of them, which covers those small flaws for me.


how is the bass quality and speed?


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Audeze should down-size the iSine and make an iBud. lol


----------



## siderak

WayTooCrazy said:


> Audeze should down-size the iSine and make an iBud. lol


I love the isine 20's for the open airy clean distortion free sound but there's something about the mids and hi mids on the blurs that the isines don't have. The isine bass is a little better defined but not by much imho. If I compare the non-ciphered isine with the regular cable, I gotta say hands down the magic sound blur handily beats them. Not even close. 
The pure isine without the digital processing isn't as good. It sounds like it has a blanket over it.
For several hundreds less, the blur is impressive...


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Ok, Is there a link to purchase the Blur?


----------



## siderak

WayTooCrazy said:


> Ok, Is there a link to purchase the Blur?


I messaged Wong Kthrough Facebook messenger. 


WayTooCrazy said:


> Ok, Is there a link to purchase the Blur?


I messaged Wong Kuan Wae through Facebook messenger. He is an active member of Earbuds Anonymous, a group started by bloody penguin. He has 3 levels of the blur and is very responsive with info.


----------



## SuperMAG

how much does these blur cost and are they totl level buds, also do they have warm and fatigue free sound signature.


----------



## siderak

SuperMAG said:


> how much does these blur cost and are they totl level buds, also do they have warm and fatigue free sound signature.


I don't like to quote prices from small businesses especially if they're new but very reasonable imho. 
Contact Wong through Facebook. 
My best earbuds before the blur are edimun v3 rho and the blurs are far above them on all counts. 
I'm floored that I'm able to compare them to my totl headphones and iems though. 
That makes me suspect that they are indeed totl quality. They are not dark but have quality bass. They are a little more fun than neutral but clean, clear. I can hear things analytically but they don't sound impersonally sterile. Hope that helps.


----------



## Ver JJ

ctaxxxx said:


> Really? I actually had the ER4-XR and still thought that was pretty light on the bass. Extremely accurate IEM, but non-existent soundstage though. Would love to hear an earbud with that level of accuracy and neutrality, which is what I'm hoping the CAX Black will be (if I ever get it!). Only sold mine because I couldn't get it to fit in my ear without lube. And it's really awkward to apply ear lube in work lol.
> 
> There's only so many different types of sound signatures though. Dark, warm, neutral, and bright. Then you get to different implementations. It doesn't take long to find out what signature you like (I prefer neutral with a warm or bright tilt). I go for TOTL earbuds because of the increased resolution, clarity, and soundstage. It's interesting to hear the same songs you've always been listening to at this level, because it feels like you're right there. I've always been an analytical listener though, so I love picking out details, even in warm signatures.



Applying lube....hmm that is kind of awkward especially doing so in public but anyhow, I pick my earphone based on my current feeling only if I happen to carry all of them around, still my preferred signature is overly bright, absolute zero coldness and -10db ~ -20db of bass......well this way I can enjoy my music without any "womp womp womp" kind of sound, especially when I am exhausted. 



golov17 said:


> Well, today I spent many hours with them, and I was not tired, but the battery was blown off, lol



That happens...... especially you had decided that you are going to play with all of the newly arrived earbuds in a day (from morning till night) and ignore all the work that have been stacking up since.........forever......


----------



## nmatheis

Agree with @siderak regarding Blur. I love my Blue Blur


----------



## Dark Helmet

nmatheis said:


> Agree with @siderak regarding Blur. I love my Blue Blur


That's the one with the OCC wires correct?


----------



## kfarndog

Dark Helmet said:


> how is the bass quality and speed?



I find the bass on the Masya good, but I am not a basshead by any means and I use full foams to help keep them in my ears. The speed, which I translate as details, is excellent in the Masya.  They really are an excellent earbud and value if you can make the different fit work for you.


----------



## Dark Helmet

kfarndog said:


> I find the bass on the Masya good, but I am not a basshead by any means and I use full foams to help keep them in my ears. The speed, which I translate as details, is excellent in the Masya.  They really are an excellent earbud and value if you can make the different fit work for you.


Thank you for your thoughts I appreciate it.

I'm not a basshead either, but I also do not like bass lite buds like Monk +.


----------



## nmatheis

Dark Helmet said:


> That's the one with the OCC wires correct?



Yes. "Blur 魔声/聲” - 300ohm drivers with hand twisted OCC copper wires, hand twisted copper wire splitter, and oyaide silver rhodium plug.


----------



## Saoshyant

Dark Helmet said:


> Thank you for your thoughts I appreciate it.
> 
> I'm not a basshead either, but I also do not like bass lite buds like Monk +.



Compared to Monk+, it's certainly a more present bass.


----------



## nhlean96

ISK SEM1: Bass is a bit lacking, warm and smooth, forwarding midrange (best for Vocal). Good soundstage with good depth and instrument seperation is second to none in its price range. They could only be found in China or ISK distributor, the price is insane, just under $3.


----------



## chaiyuta

Did anyone buy Puresounds PS100-600S yet?


----------



## DBaldock9

nmatheis said:


> Yes. "Blur 魔声/聲” - 300ohm drivers with hand twisted OCC copper wires, hand twisted copper wire splitter, and oyaide silver rhodium plug.



I've opened negotiations with Wong, to get a set of "Blur 魔音” - 300ohm drivers, hand twisted OCC SPC wires, hand twisted copper wire splitter, with a 2.5mm TRRS plug.


----------



## Saoshyant

I do hope the Svara shows up on tracking soon.  Jim assured me it's been sent out, but usually 12 days later I'd have something on my tracking by now.  At this point I really feel like I have a ton of audio gear coming in, and really hoping some of them impress.


----------



## DBaldock9

Saoshyant said:


> I do hope the Svara shows up on tracking soon.  Jim assured me it's been sent out, but usually 12 days later I'd have something on my tracking by now.  At this point I really feel like I have a ton of audio gear coming in, and really hoping some of them impress.



My Svara L order, placed on 29-Apr, departed China on 01-Jun, and arrived in the USA (JFK Airport) on 08-Jun.
It was transferred to the USPS in Stamford, CT on 09-Jun, and on to the USPS Sorting / Customs Center in Flushing, NY on 09-Jun.
The current status is - "Arrive at destination country, waiting for customs clearance"


----------



## Saoshyant

DBaldock9 said:


> My Svara L order, placed on 29-Apr, departed China on 01-Jun, and arrived in the USA (JFK Airport) on 08-Jun.
> It was transferred to the USPS in Stamford, CT on 09-Jun, and on to the USPS Sorting / Customs Center in Flushing, NY on 09-Jun.
> The current status is - "Arrive at destination country, waiting for customs clearance"



Mine was placed on 4-24 and no updates as of yet.


----------



## ctaxxxx

So... For work, I have 2 waterproof pockets in my book bag that I would hold my earbuds in. One is only large enough for a medium-sized DAP. The other is a little larger, but I've had to jam my poor earbuds into small cases.










However, now the DX200 is too large and I've had to put it into the second pocket. Been trying to find an easier, safer alternative for all my earbuds and this was I what I got.









Tiny burlap sacks and a waterproof pelican hard case from Amazon. I also bought "Pick N' Pluck foam", but I may not need it anymore. It's snug enough inside so they don't bounce around.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

DBaldock9 said:


> My Svara L order, placed on 29-Apr, departed China on 01-Jun, and arrived in the USA (JFK Airport) on 08-Jun.
> It was transferred to the USPS in Stamford, CT on 09-Jun, and on to the USPS Sorting / Customs Center in Flushing, NY on 09-Jun.
> The current status is - "Arrive at destination country, waiting for customs clearance"



Since it is in my neck of the woods... let me demo them for you!


----------



## ctaxxxx

Saoshyant said:


> Mine was placed on 4-24 and no updates as of yet.


What service did you use? I have an EMS package that hasn't updated its tracking for 2 weeks since it shipped. And I thought EMS usually takes less than a week. I ended up submitting a search request to my post office yesterday (only cause I couldn't reach their damn customer support...).


----------



## noknok23

wow puresounds ps100-600s only $75 on taobao, and normal cable only $100 on AE!! At this price, it's a nice deal imo.


----------



## Narayan23

DBaldock9 said:


> I've opened negotiations with Wong, to get a set of "Blur 魔音” - 300ohm drivers, hand twisted OCC SPC wires, hand twisted copper wire splitter, with a 2.5mm TRRS plug.



Please keep us posted about your impressions when you get them DB9, I contacted Wong via gmail asking for a price list etc but he told me to contact him via Facebook which I can´t / won´t do since I don´t have an account nor plan to have one.


----------



## nmatheis

DBaldock9 said:


> I've opened negotiations with Wong, to get a set of "Blur 魔音” - 300ohm drivers, hand twisted OCC SPC wires, hand twisted copper wire splitter, with a 2.5mm TRRS plug.



Entered negotiations? Sounds like some kind of high-powered business deal. I just asked how much and bought a pair




Narayan23 said:


> Please keep us posted about your impressions when you get them DB9, I contacted Wong via gmail asking for a price list etc but he told me to contact him via Facebook which I can´t / won´t do since I don´t have an account nor plan to have one.



You'll miss out, then. There are quite a few DIY guys who sells through Facebook messenger...


----------



## noknok23

@Narayan23 
Make an account with fake name and dump e-mail address.
Even use a free proxy when using facebook, (like dotvpn) mixed with Ghostery, Do not track, uBlock Origin, and you are most likely to be safe, much more anonymous than on head-fi actually^-^.


----------



## nmatheis

noknok23 said:


> @Narayan23
> Make an account with fake name and dump e-mail address.
> Even use a free proxy when using facebook, (like dotvpn) mixed with Ghostery, Do not track, uBlock Origin, and you are most likely to be safe, much more anonymous than on head-fi actually^-^.



You got something to hide, bro?


----------



## noknok23

I would do anything I can do to slow-down this scary trend of global mass surveillance.


----------



## flexy321

I use 5mm Nylon spiral "cable organizers" that you can get everywhere, mainly to protect ALL my wires, and in particular earbuds, from my cats.
With these "organizers", you can also fold very long cables....or J-cables, and then just wrap the spiral around it...which could be an option for those who don't want to re-cable earbuds. Disadvantage is that the wires get a little heavier and stiffer with the spiral wrapped around them, but in my case it doesn't matter. Just a tip for those who don't want to rewire because of too long cables or J-cables.


----------



## Narayan23

nmatheis said:


> Entered negotiations? Sounds like some kind of high-powered business deal. I just asked how much and bought a pair
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah I´ll miss out but surely a guy with the skill to make earbuds has the ability to put up a website so that people like me can give him their money, there´s thousands of millions of people that don´t have a Facebook account so maybe Wong is missing out too.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Narayan23 said:


> Yeah I´ll miss out but surely a guy with the skill to make earbuds has the ability to put up a website so that people like me can give him their money, there´s thousands of millions of people that don´t have a Facebook account so maybe Wong is missing out too.



That's true. I mean, it can at least go up on eBay with a set price and sit there for 30 days at a clip.


----------



## ctaxxxx

noknok23 said:


> I would do anything I can do to slow-down this scary trend of global mass surveillance.


I'm sure the government has better things to do than listen in to what earbuds you're buying.



Narayan23 said:


> Yeah I´ll miss out but surely a guy with the skill to make earbuds has the ability to put up a website so that people like me can give him their money, there´s thousands of millions of people that don´t have a Facebook account so maybe Wong is missing out too.


Well, a website costs money. What I don't understand is you contacted him through gmail, and then he tells you to go through Facebook. Why?...


----------



## siderak

ctaxxxx said:


> I'm sure the government has better things to do than listen in to what earbuds you're buying.
> 
> 
> Well, a website costs money. What I don't understand is you contacted him through gmail, and then he tells you to go through Facebook. Why?...



He just wants to keep everything consolidated through messenger. 
My impression is that Wong is doing this for the joy of it. 
It's not his main gig and he probably doesn't want to get all "businessy" about it. 
I had no problems. He gave me info on the different options including price and I paypalled. 
He gave updates along the way and 2-3 weeks after I made the order,  I received my awesome earbuds. He was helpful and enthusiastic. I felt it was not merely customer service, it was sincere enthusiasm. He genuinely enjoys making people happy. I think if it stops being fun for him, he'll probably stop making them. 
I don't speak for Wong so this is all just my best guess. 
If it's not possible to use messenger maybe you can ask someone who has it?


----------



## Saoshyant

ctaxxxx said:


> What service did you use? I have an EMS package that hasn't updated its tracking for 2 weeks since it shipped. And I thought EMS usually takes less than a week. I ended up submitting a search request to my post office yesterday (only cause I couldn't reach their damn customer support...).



It's being sent via EMS.  I just hope it was actually sent out.


----------



## golov17

After the burn, I more like the sound of **** flagship, a detailed and refined sound on the bright side.. use them with full foams


----------



## noknok23

looks interesting, is it on aliexpress?


----------



## golov17

noknok23 said:


> looks interesting, is it on aliexpress?


Not yet, but soon, i hope..


----------



## DBaldock9

nmatheis said:


> Entered negotiations? Sounds like some kind of high-powered business deal. I just asked how much and bought a pair
> 
> ...



Well, I was originally checking to see if he'd make a Balanced 2.5mm TRRS model, and whether he would assemble a set without the copper wire splitter.
He said yes to the 2.5mm TRRS, but no to not installing the splitter (I'm guessing that the hand twisted copper wire splitter is his "_trademark_" Blur earbud look).


----------



## noknok23 (Jun 11, 2017)

He makes very nice custom L shaped 2.5 trrs plug. Also he is working on a earbuds especially to fit Sony PHA-2A dac.

I think his earbuds looks especially good haha. The best looking I have perhaps


----------



## chaiyuta

noknok23 said:


> wow puresounds ps100-600s only $75 on taobao, and normal cable only $100 on AE!! At this price, it's a nice deal imo.



Do you interest to buy one? I'm interested in 600s +2.5 balanced + 600core cable (package 2). I am thinking.. and reading more feedbacks.


----------



## ClieOS

ctaxxxx said:


> I'm sure the government has better things to do than listen in to what earbuds you're buying.
> 
> Well, a website costs money. What I don't understand is you contacted him through gmail, and then he tells you to go through Facebook. Why?...



A blog style website cost almost nothing if you don't use an unique domain name. Even if you do choose to use your own domain name, it will still cost less than one ToTL earbuds for those DIY builder per year, so I am sure they can afford it easily. I would know as I have has my own site for a couple of years now, no big deal there. If anything, I think it is just convenient (or actually just lazy) for them to use FB instead of a proper web site.


----------



## headjelly (Jun 12, 2017)

chaiyuta said:


> Did anyone buy Puresounds PS100-600S yet?



I do have them and I like them. The pairing with Cayin N3 is wonderful. For $75 they are a steal.


----------



## siderak

ClieOS said:


> A blog style website cost almost nothing if you don't use an unique domain name. Even if you do choose to use your own domain name, it will still cost less than one ToTL earbuds for those DIY builder per year, so I am sure they can afford it easily. I would know as I have has my own site for a couple of years now, no big deal there. If anything, I think it is just convenient (or actually just lazy) for them to use FB instead of a proper web site.



I'm very sorry to hear you write negatively about someone you don't know. Up until now, I've been very appreciative of the contributions you've made in providing earbud enthusiasts with useful information but accusing someone of being self seeking or lazy because you don't understand their methods is mean spirited and shows ignorance. It damages your own integrity because you've shown a willingness to speculate over motivation with zero evidence. Is that not lazy thinking? 
I hope you can learn to respect people more. That includes all their quirks and choices about how they interact with others. 
I have to say something because I happen to know that the person referred to in this stream is anything but lazy. 
To me it sounds more lazy that people complain about having to use messenger to communicate with him. 
If you don't like it then don't do it but at least try to not be lazy about your opinions of them.


----------



## golov17

@siderak, woow, take it easy.. whats wrong? 
I'm sure he did not mean anything like that, just expressed his opinion.., Peace


----------



## chaiyuta

@headjelly Could you provide impression? Do you own any other puresounds or well-known earbuds to comparison?


----------



## noknok23 (Jun 12, 2017)

@chaiyuta I have PS600 single ended. Listening back to back with Campfred on respective amount of power. (CF on aune m1s,  PS600 on zishan) I notice very little differences. The PS is a bit more rolled off on the high, maybe less refined overall but by a tiny margin.
For me, I'd describe the ps600 as easy audiophile sound. Overall lean and neutral but slightly smooth with sub bass bump and tiny roll off in the highs (hence the "easy")

@siderak don't be offended, I am sure Clieos did not meant wrong. I guess by "Lazy" he meant "not interested".
I just think some peoples are not as tech-friendly as others and even a pre-built blog can be source of trouble. Also not everyone wants to take the american road of running a business with the fancy .com with cool pictures and mouth watering descriptions (...)


----------



## xilon

Hello. I don't know if these earbuds have been discussed already but I found them inpressive for the price
https://m.aliexpress.com/s/item/328...-With-Mic-Earbuds-HIFI-Stereo-3-5mm-Subwoofer

Anyone have tried them? Could they compare with VE monk plus?


----------



## ClieOS

Ha, sometime people really read too much into stuff, I shall keep it to myself then


----------



## Saoshyant

siderak said:


> I'm very sorry to hear you write negatively about someone you don't know. Up until now, I've been very appreciative of the contributions you've made in providing earbud enthusiasts with useful information but accusing someone of being self seeking or lazy because you don't understand their methods is mean spirited and shows ignorance. It damages your own integrity because you've shown a willingness to speculate over motivation with zero evidence. Is that not lazy thinking?
> I hope you can learn to respect people more. That includes all their quirks and choices about how they interact with others.
> I have to say something because I happen to know that the person referred to in this stream is anything but lazy.
> To me it sounds more lazy that people complain about having to use messenger to communicate with him.
> If you don't like it then don't do it but at least try to not be lazy about your opinions of them.



That was an oddly judgmental post, and


ClieOS said:


> Ha, sometime people really read too much into stuff, I shall keep it to myself then



Just remember most of us appreciate all the time and effort you've put into helping us all out.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Maybe my question spurred a little too much discussion. If he really prefers Facebook, that's fine, but no need to limit yourself to one method of communication if you have an alternative that you can provide as well.

In other news, my EMS tracking for CAX Black finally updated! It's not lost!!!


----------



## chaiyuta

@noknok23 : Thanks for sharing impression. I'm quite surprised that Campfred doesn't take a big leap improvement over PS100-600 because Campfred's price is 2-3 times of PS100-600's price. Do both provide similar sound signature? I checked on taobao and read recent feedbacks by using google translate. It seems PS-600S + 600-core cable got positive praise. I own PS100-500 Pop balanced and I like this kind of tuning so I'm interested in PS-600S as well.


----------



## tukangketik

ClieOS said:


> Ha, sometime people really read too much into stuff, I shall keep it to myself then


Noooo...As silent reader I really enjoyed your short impression to whatever you have collected in this thread so far. So, how is your impression toward the last photo you uploaded on OP? 



ctaxxxx said:


> In other news, my EMS tracking for CAX Black finally updated! It's not lost!!!


Indonesian Post Office Call Center is very realible to reach for us (you need the seller to actively ask) or reach their twitter account to ask. @PosIndonesia 
Happy waiting then...


----------



## Narayan23

siderak said:


> I'm very sorry to hear you write negatively about someone you don't know. Up until now, I've been very appreciative of the contributions you've made in providing earbud enthusiasts with useful information but accusing someone of being self seeking or lazy because you don't understand their methods is mean spirited and shows ignorance. It damages your own integrity because you've shown a willingness to speculate over motivation with zero evidence. Is that not lazy thinking?
> I hope you can learn to respect people more. That includes all their quirks and choices about how they interact with others.
> I have to say something because I happen to know that the person referred to in this stream is anything but lazy.
> To me it sounds more lazy that people complain about having to use messenger to communicate with him.
> If you don't like it then don't do it but at least try to not be lazy about your opinions of them.



I guess Wong is your friend, a family member or yourself but even so your response to ClieOS is unfounded, harsh and out of line, what you say about him is easily applicable to you. If I happen not to like one of Wong´s products will you send some hitmen my way if I say so publicly?  Lighten up and don´t take things so personal, especially when said things aren´t about you, nobody means any harm at all here so let´s have a Mouthbud and cheer up.


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, considering my phone is now an LG G6, I figured let's buy an AptX HD receiver, specifically the AK XB10.  I know it's still BT therefore not lossless, but let's not get into that debate.  Having a 2.5mm bal jack, I grabbed my SeaHF 320 (I believe it's the smart 1.0) and I'm certainly enjoying the sound, and bass.  Also, the receiver has a built in mic so all my earbuds can be used for calls.  It had enough juice to drive these, but it's pretty close to the top end of what it's capable of.  I suspect for my non-balanced earbuds I'll have to use easier to drive ones, so no Zens.  I will test to verify later.  Always glad to have more options for my buds!


----------



## AkashS04

fairx said:


> That is some great praise for the e808. I own own one and didn't like it because of peak issue. Maybe just my build. But now maybe i should dig it back and listen.
> 
> Truth is I always been fan of VE porous foam. I just recently found full foam is not that bad.


Are you talking about Sony E808+ or 808LP. I saw 203 different models of 808. Which one is with deep and punchy bass? Also, do they have mic version and also are they with asymmetric size of right and left ear cable or Y shaped?


----------



## SuperMAG

LittleSoundHQ said:


> New earbuds: Clear Treble, good vocal, nice bass response.  Very good for all rounder, everyday earbuds.



which one is this, link please.


----------



## noknok23 (Jun 12, 2017)

chaiyuta said:


> @noknok23 : Thanks for sharing impression. I'm quite surprised that Campfred doesn't take a big leap improvement over PS100-600 because Campfred's price is 2-3 times of PS100-600's price. Do both provide similar sound signature? I checked on taobao and read recent feedbacks by using google translate. It seems PS-600S + 600-core cable got positive praise. I own PS100-500 Pop balanced and I like this kind of tuning so I'm interested in PS-600S as well.



Blame my ears or the setup i'm using but we navigate into TOTL territories, the differences are very subtle. In the early days, I heard that Campfred was around 100 before its massive success. Remember that not so long ago PS600 was priced at 140/170 (and still is in some stores) but didn't seems to got the love it deserved, overshadowed by too many competitors... price doesn't mean much... I think CF is still overall more refined. They both react very different depending on the source and campfred will sound like crap on zishan because it is too transparent but will be astonishing on m1s balanced... I don't have a proper amp to drive PS600 on the aune but I read that you can go into very high level of refinement with the ps600 using a desktop dac/amp. I did tried listening to the same music at same volume with ps600zishan on one side and campfred m1s on the other and the differences were far from obvious.

Short version: ps600 below $100 is a very fine deal.


any info about theses? _Saikou V1_ from Dinnov


----------



## AkashS04

One more question, I can understand that IEMs seal very well, they have very active noise cancellation feature and they have deep bass and as desired as sound signature, but why few Earbuds costs 100+ or even 150-200+ also. They don't seal, not much bass (if Bass is there then no high or no smoothness etc.). Any specific reason or they just price. Like VE Zen Black 44 TRRS is $358 and OSTRY KC08T is $129.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

@AkashS04 One of these days, if you're up in CT area (unless your in upstate NY), we can schedule a listen of the higher end Zen line if you're interested. I have the Zen 2.0 Standard (2.5mm TRRS) and the Zen 2.0 Black Edition (4 pin XLR). I agree, they don't have a lot of bass. They are more like an "open" headphone... but still bass light. Though, the mid bass, mids and highs sound fantastic!  Always puts a smile on my face.  Now, I'm looking for bassier IEMs to satisfy that need as well.


----------



## fairx

@AkashS04 
It's not about the money. It's about the powa..


----------



## ClieOS

tukangketik said:


> Noooo...As silent reader I really enjoyed your short impression to whatever you have collected in this thread so far. So, how is your impression toward the last photo you uploaded on OP?



No worry, I'll keep to posting short impression if nothing else.

On that note, just finish listening to both Shozy BK / Stardust and Cygnus LE (with a side serving of regular Cygnus) - I think overall I'll say the two are nearly equal in SQ, but with a rather different presentation. BK really has more or less a mature / smooth yet fairly all-accomplishing sound, especially when driven balanced. Some might have called it being a bit too neutral, which I don't think is the most corrected word to my opinion, but rather a bit on the blander (= lacking strong character) side of presentation. Cygnus LE, if anything, is comparatively more energetic and forwarded sounding. If BK is aimed to be an all rounder, Cygnus LE is really more of a 'pop star', so to speak. In contrast, Cygnus LE has a fuller and forwarder presentation with a harder hitting bass and overall dynamic, which goes really well with mainstream music. In exchange of this more energetic sound, Cygnus LE has a smaller soundstage as everything tends to sound fuller but also more 'in-your-face'. Though technically Cygnus LE can hit just as high and low a note as BK, the forwardness in presentation means 'big' music like classical lost a bit of grandness on it, but pop and rock gain a bit of more sweetness and PRaT. It is all about give and take between the BK and Cygnus LE. In that sense, I think the regular Cygnus is more or less in-between the two but more toward BK in tuning.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

@ClieOS I believe I read that you've listened to the Standard Zen 2.0. Have you tried the Black Edition, and if so...how does that compare to the Shozy BK/Cygnus offerings that you mentioned? I'm curious to try something new (If I don't get an IEM).


----------



## ClieOS

WayTooCrazy said:


> @ClieOS I believe I read that you've listened to the Standard Zen 2.0. Have you tried the Black Edition, and if so...how does that compare to the Shozy BK/Cygnus offerings that you mentioned? I'm curious to try something new (If I don't get an IEM).



I have the standard Zen 2.0 and had listened to @rudi0504 Zen 2.0 Black with VE's portable balanced amp setup on CanJam Singapore as well. Given I didn't compare Zen 2.0 Black directly with BK at the time, I won't say this is in the stone - but to me, I'll say a well drivn Zen 2.0 Black is right about the same level as a well-driven BK, more or less. At this level of the game, it is very hard (and a bit unrealistic) to call which will be a total winner.


----------



## Fabi

Thank you for these sound impressions


----------



## siderak

Ok. Sorry everyone. From reading the replies, I realize I must've overreacted.
I get protective of people and


Narayan23 said:


> I guess Wong is your friend, a family member or yourself but even so your response to ClieOS is unfounded, harsh and out of line, what you say about him is easily applicable to you. If I happen not to like one of Wong´s products will you send some hitmen my way if I say so publicly?  Lighten up and don´t take things so personal, especially when said things aren´t about you, nobody means any harm at all here so let´s have a Mouthbud and cheer up.


im not affiliated in any way other than ordering his blur. 
I don't think my response is unfounded if i don't take into consideration that English may not be clieOS' first language.  After reading the responses it then occurred to me. I adjusted my position and apologized. 
If English is someone's first language, it's not acceptable for them to weigh in that way in characterizing another person's ethic without foundation, especially if your word carries weight as clieOS' does. Since it's likely that clieOs isn't a native English speaker,  I recognize that there is a cultural difference in that "lazy" is much more casual. My mistake. Apologies to all. 
As I mentioned, I have no affiliation to Wong other than an impeccable experience getting his blurs. I simply appreciate the guy and want to share. 
Your comments are judgemental and at least equally intrusive and non peaceful to say the least but i understand that you are being protective of clieOs. In essence we're doing the same thing so I accept your mouthbud and promise to never send a hitman for you.


----------



## DBaldock9

DBaldock9 said:


> My Svara L order, placed on 29-Apr, departed China on 01-Jun, and arrived in the USA (JFK Airport) on 08-Jun.
> It was transferred to the USPS in Stamford, CT on 09-Jun, and on to the USPS Sorting / Customs Center in Flushing, NY on 09-Jun.
> The current status is - "Arrive at destination country, waiting for customs clearance"



The box with my Svara L arrived in the mailbox today.
I put some Hiegi donut foams on them, and I'm listening to some 24-Bit / 96-KHz FLAC files of *Stefanovski & Tadic* (acoustic guitar) on my Cayin N3.
Initially, I'm sensing a bit of a closed-in sound, with an elevated Bass & Lower-Midrange.


----------



## ballog

ClieOS said:


> No worry, I'll keep to posting short impression if nothing else.
> 
> On that note, just finish listening to both Shozy BK / Stardust and Cygnus LE (with a side serving of regular Cygnus) - I think overall I'll say the two are nearly equal in SQ, but with a rather different presentation. BK really has more or less a mature / smooth yet fairly all-accomplishing sound, especially when driven balanced. Some might have called it being a bit too neutral, which I don't think is the most corrected word to my opinion, but rather a bit on the blander (= lacking strong character) side of presentation. Cygnus LE, if anything, is comparatively more energetic and forwarded sounding. If BK is aimed to be an all rounder, Cygnus LE is really more of a 'pop star', so to speak. In contrast, Cygnus LE has a fuller and forwarder presentation with a harder hitting bass and overall dynamic, which goes really well with mainstream music. In exchange of this more energetic sound, Cygnus LE has a smaller soundstage as everything tends to sound fuller but also more 'in-your-face'. Though technically Cygnus LE can hit just as high and low a note as BK, the forwardness in presentation means 'big' music like classical lost a bit of grandness on it, but pop and rock gain a bit of more sweetness and PRaT. It is all about give and take between the BK and Cygnus LE. In that sense, I think the regular Cygnus is more or less in-between the two but more toward BK in tuning.



@ClieOS  thanks for your impressions. All your posts and replies are helpful as usual and much much appreciated. One more thing - what's your opinion on Docomo PK style earbuds (HCK DIY PK2 among others)? Is it true Cygnus also use the same drivers?


----------



## chaiyuta

@DBaldock9  : How about sound stage?


----------



## chaiyuta

@siderak : You said " ... promise to never send a hitman for you.". It means you have a lot of bulky-muscle hitmans in your home, isn't it?


----------



## silverfishla

DBaldock9 said:


> The box with my Svara L arrived in the mailbox today.
> I put some Hiegi donut foams on them, and I'm listening to some 24-Bit / 96-KHz FLAC files of *Stefanovski & Tadic* (acoustic guitar) on my Cayin N3.
> Initially, I'm sensing a bit of a closed-in sound, with an elevated Bass & Lower-Midrange.


So, is it a stinker or what?  To tell you the truth, I have not heard many reviews of the Svara L.  Looks cool and well made and unique design.


----------



## Luan Dee

@ClieOS  I'm still very interested where you'd put the Cygnus LE in your list, would it be in the Contender or Champions? If it makes it to the champs, maybe you can share where specifically among the 7?


----------



## siderak

chaiyuta said:


> @siderak : You said " ... promise to never send a hitman for you.". It means you have a lot of bulky-muscle hitmans in your home, isn't it?


To be honest, theyre all skinny. You'd never see them coming...


----------



## DBaldock9

chaiyuta said:


> @DBaldock9  : How about sound stage?



As I said, the initial impression is that they're closed-in, by which I mean - a fairly narrow sound stage.
Since they've got MMCX connectors, I'll be trying them with some other cables, to see how that affects the sound.


----------



## vladstef (Jun 13, 2017)

I need a recommendation about my first pair of earbuds. I know that the best thing would be to buy a few pairs of <10$ ones that are constantly praised here, but I can't stand generic design with bad cables at all. So I am looking into earbuds that are below 40$, and came up with Yinman 150Ohms, Auglamour RX-1, **** EPK1, DIY PHEB01... I understand that these probably have more differences than similarities, but that they all have respectable sound quality. Any suggestions, is there a pair that sticks out in terms of sound quality, or maybe some earbuds that I have overlooked? Thanks.


----------



## CharlesRievone

vladstef said:


> I need a recommendation about my first pair of earbuds. I know that the best thing would be to buy a few pairs of <10$ ones that are constantly praised here, but I can't stand generic design with bad cables at all. So I am looking into earbuds that are below 40$, and came up with Yinman 150Ohms, Auglamour RX-1, **** EPK1, DIY PHEB01... I understand that these probably have more differences than similarities, but that they all have respectable sound quality. Any suggestions, is there a pair that sticks out in terms of sound quality, or maybe some earbuds that I have overlooked? Thanks.


Yinman 150 - Midcentric
Auglamour RX1 - Bright sounding, might have a thin sound
**** EPK1 - Bright, but good vocals. Bass light.
DIY PHEB01 - Haven't tried this one.

What is your preferred sound signature? Bassy? Good vocals/mids? Bright treble? All-rounder? V-shaped (good bass and highs)? Etc.


----------



## vladstef

CharlesRievone said:


> Yinman 150 - Midcentric
> Auglamour RX1 - Bright sounding, might have a thin sound
> **** EPK1 - Bright, but good vocals. Bass light.
> DIY PHEB01 - Haven't tried this one.
> ...


Thanks for the detailed answer. For me, as long as the sound is clear and resolution is on point, minor differences in sound signature don't play a significant role (as long it is not detrimental to the overall sound - strong v-shape, muddy bass, harsh and sibilant, frequency peaks all over the place, too light on bass etc.). I guess I like balanced sound with wide soundstage, that is why earbuds might work for me better that IEMs, at least at home.


----------



## AkashS04

WayTooCrazy said:


> @AkashS04 One of these days, if you're up in CT area (unless your in upstate NY), we can schedule a listen of the higher end Zen line if you're interested. I have the Zen 2.0 Standard (2.5mm TRRS) and the Zen 2.0 Black Edition (4 pin XLR). I agree, they don't have a lot of bass. They are more like an "open" headphone... but still bass light. Though, the mid bass, mids and highs sound fantastic!  Always puts a smile on my face.  Now, I'm looking for bassier IEMs to satisfy that need as well.


Thanks buddy. I am not in CT. I work in NY so if you come this side, this can be tried. I would love to listen to high end earbuds for sure. And even IEMs.


----------



## ozkan

Has anyone here received his/her NICEHCK EB200? It is still on my order list on AliExpress but haven't paid yet. Are they any good or Vido beater?


----------



## tukangketik

ClieOS said:


> Cygnus LE has a fuller and forwarder presentation with a harder hitting bass and overall dynamic, which goes really well with mainstream music. In exchange of this more energetic sound


I was hoping your impression on the"German Metal" (last pic on the right) as I also enjoyed their previous models, but this Cygnus LE seems also interesting. I think it might suitable for heavier music on my playlist. Thank you.


----------



## slappypete (Jun 13, 2017)

Today I decided to take some measurements of my current bud collection to try and get some objective data for comparisons. Take all this with a grain of salt because my measurement rig is far from professional.

The rig is a simple coupler attatched to a miniDSP UMIK-1 mic. The measurements are raw, uncompensated, and have no smoothing applied to them. I tried my best to get accurate and repeatable results by averaging at least 5 measurements for each earbud and re-seating the earbud for each measurement. Unless stated otherwise, the measurements were all done with Monk Plus Donut foams at 90 dB SPL. The Shozy BK was used as a reference since it is the best I have at the moment.

These measurements can only be compared to each other, not to measurements from other rigs. You can't judge too harshly any peaks or dips you see because these are uncompensated and by the time sound travels through your ears the response will have changed. Bass response won't be representative of real world bass response in your ears due to ears having a vastly different seal from the rig. What we can do is compare the responses to each other and determine which buds have more or less bass, treble, etc.

Here is the Data:


Spoiler: Measurements







 













I think this really illustrates what a great value the Vido is (at least in my opinion). I have a pair of Sennheiser MX980, CampFred 2, EMX500, and Edifier H180 coming in the mail, so I will be able to upload some more measurements soon if you guys are interested.

EDIT: I added Shozy BK vs SHE3800 with MP thin foams to the measurements.


----------



## ClieOS

Luan Dee said:


> @ClieOS  I'm still very interested where you'd put the Cygnus LE in your list, would it be in the Contender or Champions? If it makes it to the champs, maybe you can share where specifically among the 7?



I'll still consider Cygnus LE a Champion level earbud, but not higher than BK as BK has a more versatile sound signature. I'll probably put it on the lower end of Champion right alongside the original K's 500.



ballog said:


> @ClieOS  thanks for your impressions. All your posts and replies are helpful as usual and much much appreciated. One more thing - what's your opinion on Docomo PK style earbuds (HCK DIY PK2 among others)? Is it true Cygnus also use the same drivers?



Docomo is a good earbud, but I don't feel like it is anywhere near the level of ToTL yet. Same goes for DIY PK2. I have no idea whether Cygnus uses any of their drivers, but it certainly sound better, by a good margin.



tukangketik said:


> I was hoping your impression on the"German Metal" (last pic on the right) as I also enjoyed their previous models, but this Cygnus LE seems also interesting. I think it might suitable for heavier music on my playlist. Thank you.



You means 'liebesleid'? I haven't burnt it in nor have a good listening yet. Will do in a couple of days.


----------



## Fabi

@slappypete
This is interesting, mate. Thanks!
For your post, you should place the pictures in a spolier container  (Insert --> Spoiler)


----------



## slappypete

Fabi said:


> @slappypete
> This is interesting, mate. Thanks!
> For your post, you should place the pictures in a spolier container  (Insert --> Spoiler)


Thanks Fabi! I did just that.


----------



## golov17

Newest **** Tank Earbud 
http://s.aliexpress.com/fAn2mIjI 
 
O_o


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Anyone try these Seahf F32??
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...32814353873.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.kTUeVT

Find very sexy the transparent one with silver plated cable and take the plunge. Very curious about these beauties with great looking L cable!


----------



## KookaBurrra

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Anyone try these Seahf F32??
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...32814353873.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.kTUeVT
> 
> Find very sexy the transparent one with silver plated cable and take the plunge. Very curious about these beauties with great looking L cable!



I received last week the "normal" Seahf AWK-F32 (this one :
https://fr.aliexpress.com/store/pro...rplugs-DIY-HIFI-Bass/1825606_32791280559.html)

Good earbud but nothing incredible (compared to Vido, VE Monk Plus, FiiO EM3, Awei ES10, Philips SHE3800, ... for exemple).


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

KookaBurrra said:


> I received last week the "normal" Seahf AWK-F32 (this one :
> https://fr.aliexpress.com/store/pro...rplugs-DIY-HIFI-Bass/1825606_32791280559.html)
> 
> Good earbud but nothing incredible (compared to Vido, VE Monk Plus, FiiO EM3, Awei ES10, Philips SHE3800, ... for exemple).



Oh, well, I hope the cable will improve sound quality cause this model is 2 time the price of black version...anyway, will compare them with the earbuds I got, especially FAAEL and Mrz Tomahawk.

What type of soundsignature did F32 got if I may ask?


----------



## silverfishla

vladstef said:


> I need a recommendation about my first pair of earbuds. I know that the best thing would be to buy a few pairs of <10$ ones that are constantly praised here, but I can't stand generic design with bad cables at all. So I am looking into earbuds that are below 40$, and came up with Yinman 150Ohms, Auglamour RX-1, **** EPK1, DIY PHEB01... I understand that these probably have more differences than similarities, but that they all have respectable sound quality. Any suggestions, is there a pair that sticks out in terms of sound quality, or maybe some earbuds that I have overlooked? Thanks.


I would not get the **** EPK1.  I don't think you will be very impressed with this one as I think it is competent but unexciting.  Not that great soundstage, not that great depth, and not much energetic impact.  Basically, pretty dull.  Out of the less expensive ones, I always go back to the Toneking TP16 (about $20?) and the NiceHCK PK2 is pretty well rounded too.


----------



## prone2phone

@slappypete 

hi, just yesterday got Vidos and thought they are the best bargain of all the bargains ever had. Could be bit less bass and more brightness. Will have to check those thin monk foams.  Also today arrived opus 11 dac and it ads control to the bass and overall fidelity. Pure music.

I like lenghty reviews but those graphs are really useful especially if vidos are included for reference as apparently many people got them.


----------



## knudsen (Jun 13, 2017)

slappypete said:


> Today I decided to take some measurements of my current bud collection to try and get some objective data for comparisons. Take all this with a grain of salt because my measurement rig is far from professional.


Excellent and very interesting, thanks a lot! You've just saved me a bunch of money as I believe I'm not 2k-bump compatible. Which seems like a popular signature.

Please show us more when you have 

Edit: would be very interesting to see what the Ozkan mod does at that resolution. I've tried to capture with iphone+FFTplot, but results are a bit unclear. But I think it elevates at 1,5-2K. It seems to me, that filling either 1 or 2 different holes at the back of a mx500 all gives different results depending on which holes. Could be extremely helpful for tweaking with a small analysis of what it does.


----------



## SuperMAG

How are vido compared to monk+, do I really need to buy them, will they offer much better performance.


----------



## slappypete

prone2phone said:


> @slappypete
> 
> hi, just yesterday got Vidos and thought they are the best bargain of all the bargains ever had. Could be bit less bass and more brightness. Will have to check those thin monk foams.  Also today arrived opus 11 dac and it ads control to the bass and overall fidelity. Pure music.
> 
> I like lenghty reviews but those graphs are really useful especially if vidos are included for reference as apparently many people got them.



I agree, the Vido is for sure the best bargain I've had so far, but of course I haven't heard em all yet! haha. 

I added a new graph showing the Shozy BK vs the SHE3800 with MP thin foams to my original post. I also made a bunch of new graphs from the same data showing all the buds vs the Vido as reference. 

Here they are:


Spoiler: Measurements


----------



## slappypete

knudsen said:


> Excellent and very interesting, thanks a lot! You've just saved me a bunch of money as I believe I'm not 2k-bump compatible. Which seems like a popular signature.
> 
> Please show us more when you have
> 
> Edit: would be very interesting to see what the Ozkan mod does at that resolution. I've tried to capture with iphone+FFTplot, but results are a bit unclear. But I think it elevates at 1,5-2K. It seems to me, that filling either 1 or 2 different holes at the back of a mx500 all gives different results depending on which holes. Could be extremely helpful for tweaking with a small analysis of what it does.



Glad you liked the graphs. I  just posed the same graphs but using the Vido as reference above. I will try to do some measurements of the Ozkan mod when I have the time... Hopefuly soon. I also want to measure the effects of a bunch of different foams.


----------



## Makahl

Hi @ClieOS, could you please share some impression regarding Vidos? I've read a lot of things about them and apparently, they're one of the best budget options now, so, I'd like to know where you would fit them in your list.


----------



## cigarello

@ClieOS would  you   choose  the Zen  V2.0 over the Shozy Stardust  and TY Hi Z 650?


----------



## ClieOS

Makahl said:


> Hi @ClieOS, could you please share some impression regarding Vidos? I've read a lot of things about them and apparently, they're one of the best budget options now, so, I'd like to know where you would fit them in your list.



Again, my Vido still requires a bit more burn-in. But as far as initial impression goes, it is surprisingly similar to the original Sennheiser MX500 in tuning, but overall seems to be a bit better as well. Pretty solid entry level earbuds as far as I concerned.



cigarello said:


> @ClieOS would  you   choose  the Zen  V2.0 over the Shozy Stardust  and TY Hi Z 650?



No. My preference is Stardust > Zen 2.0 > HP-650.


----------



## cigarello

ClieOS said:


> Again, my Vido still requires a bit more burn-in. But as far as initial impression goes, it is surprisingly similar to the original Sennheiser MX500 in tuning, but overall seems to be a bit better as well. Pretty solid entry level earbuds as far as I concerned.
> 
> 
> 
> No. My preference is Stardust > Zen 2.0 > HP-650.



Thanks. Is  there  much difference between the Stardust  than the Zen?


----------



## ClieOS

cigarello said:


> Thanks. Is  there  much difference between the Stardust  than the Zen?



Stardust will be what I consider to be true flagship, champion level earbud; Zen 2.0 is more like second tier flagship / contender level; HP-650 is more like upper mid tier that isn't quite make it to the contender level.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

<Me> stares at his Zen 2.0 standard and Black Edition and feels betrayed.


----------



## ballog (Jun 14, 2017)

ClieOS said:


> Docomo is a good earbud, but I don't feel like it is anywhere near the level of ToTL yet. Same goes for DIY PK2. I have no idea whether Cygnus uses any of their drivers, but it certainly sound better, by a good margin.



@ClieOS thanks for your reply . Perhaps @golov17  will have something to say about this (Docomo vs Cygnus NOS drivers) !


----------



## Raketen (Jun 14, 2017)

cigarello said:


> Thanks. Is  there  much difference between the Stardust  than the Zen?



IMO these sound so different it's almost like they speak different languages.


----------



## Dark Helmet

vladstef said:


> Thanks for the detailed answer. For me, as long as the sound is clear and resolution is on point, minor differences in sound signature don't play a significant role (as long it is not detrimental to the overall sound - strong v-shape, muddy bass, harsh and sibilant, frequency peaks all over the place, too light on bass etc.). I guess I like balanced sound with wide soundstage, that is why earbuds might work for me better that IEMs, at least at home.


EMX500 is very cool.  I love mine.


----------



## PT7673

slappypete said:


> I agree, the Vido is for sure the best bargain I've had so far, but of course I haven't heard em all yet! haha.
> 
> I added a new graph showing the Shozy BK vs the SHE3800 with MP thin foams to my original post. I also made a bunch of new graphs from the same data showing all the buds vs the Vido as reference.


 
Thank you @slappypete for the graphs.

Could you point me to the Seahf 32 V1 Aliexpress link that you use in your comparison?

I'd like to check it out.

Thanks again.


----------



## cigarello

Raketen said:


> IMO these sound so different it's almost like they speak different languages.



By that do you mean different  sound signatures? How  would you describe them? I'm one  for a  warmer,   less analytical sound


----------



## smith

ClieOS said:


> No worry, I'll keep to posting short impression if nothing else.
> 
> On that note, just finish listening to both Shozy BK / Stardust and Cygnus LE (with a side serving of regular Cygnus) - I think overall I'll say the two are nearly equal in SQ, but with a rather different presentation. BK really has more or less a mature / smooth yet fairly all-accomplishing sound, especially when driven balanced. Some might have called it being a bit too neutral, which I don't think is the most corrected word to my opinion, but rather a bit on the blander (= lacking strong character) side of presentation. Cygnus LE, if anything, is comparatively more energetic and forwarded sounding. If BK is aimed to be an all rounder, Cygnus LE is really more of a 'pop star', so to speak. In contrast, Cygnus LE has a fuller and forwarder presentation with a harder hitting bass and overall dynamic, which goes really well with mainstream music. In exchange of this more energetic sound, Cygnus LE has a smaller soundstage as everything tends to sound fuller but also more 'in-your-face'. Though technically Cygnus LE can hit just as high and low a note as BK, the forwardness in presentation means 'big' music like classical lost a bit of grandness on it, but pop and rock gain a bit of more sweetness and PRaT. It is all about give and take between the BK and Cygnus LE. In that sense, I think the regular Cygnus is more or less in-between the two but more toward BK in tuning.



Would you  consider the LE Cygnus a big and worthwhile upgrade ( I listen to mostly R&B and pop music)  from the original Cygnus ? I love the original one but found the BK to neutral for my tastes....


----------



## slappypete

PT7673 said:


> Thank you @slappypete for the graphs.
> 
> Could you point me to the Seahf 32 V1 Aliexpress link that you use in your comparison?
> 
> ...



I forgot what the model number for it is and it is no longer in my aliexpress history, but it looks identical to the AWK-F32S (zen 1 cable and aesthetic).  I called it the V1 because I know at the time of purchasing it was the first Seahf 32 ohm bud with that look. So I'd say it is the AWK-F32S, unless they made more than one 32 ohm bud with the zen 1 cable and white housing. Here is a link.


----------



## golov17 (Jun 14, 2017)

ballog said:


> @ClieOS thanks for your reply . Perhaps @golov17  will have something to say about this (Docomo vs Cygnus NOS drivers) !


For me, the differences are so insignificant that there is no way to justify the difference in prices, IMHO
Manufacturer SATOREX, according to some information.


----------



## ClieOS

smith said:


> Would you  consider the LE Cygnus a big and worthwhile upgrade ( I listen to mostly R&B and pop music)  from the original Cygnus ? I love the original one but found the BK to neutral for my tastes....



Original Cygnus is already really good, thus doubling the price for Cygnus LE will not give you double the SQ. In that sense, I'll say no, it is not by any measure a 'big' upgrade. Besides, as I have said, the sound signature on Cygnus LE is quite different from Cygnus and BK, so there isn't a 'direct upgrade' either, you will probably have to listen for yourself to know whether this new sound is for you or not.


----------



## slappypete

@golov17

Do you have a link to the Docomo? I haven't heard of it before and can't seem to find it on aliexpress. Thanks.


----------



## smith

ClieOS said:


> Original Cygnus is already really good, thus doubling the price for Cygnus LE will not give you double the SQ. In that sense, I'll say no, it is not by any measure a 'big' upgrade. Besides, as I have said, the sound signature on Cygnus LE is quite different from Cygnus and BK, so there isn't a 'direct upgrade' either, you will probably have to listen for yourself to know whether this new sound is for you or not.



Thanks, your post makes perfect sense.


----------



## golov17

slappypete said:


> @golov17
> 
> Do you have a link to the Docomo? I haven't heard of it before and can't seem to find it on aliexpress. Thanks.


2017 New NICEHCK DIY PK2 Earbud In Ear Earphone Flat Head Plug Earplugs Headset Earbud Use For NTT DoCoMo Smart Phone IPhone
http://s.aliexpress.com/zU3ANzAZ 
http://h5.m.taobao.com/awp/core/detail.htm?id=544491031669&toSite=main


----------



## slappypete

golov17 said:


> 2017 New NICEHCK DIY PK2 Earbud In Ear Earphone Flat Head Plug Earplugs Headset Earbud Use For NTT DoCoMo Smart Phone IPhone
> http://s.aliexpress.com/zU3ANzAZ
> http://h5.m.taobao.com/awp/core/detail.htm?id=544491031669&toSite=main


 
Thanks! I didn't realize it was the NICEHCK DIY PK2. Thought it was something else.


----------



## Ira Delphic

slappypete said:


> Thanks! I didn't realize it was the NICEHCK DIY PK2. Thought it was something else.



I have two versions, of the Nicehck DIY PK2, the black cable and original white shell. They sound identical but I can do an AB test if anyone's intersted.
So much for the Cygnus using NOS (new old stock) drivers. Appears to just be marketing. Big thanks to @golov for sharing the driver photos and listening experience.

Between the DIY PK2 and the EB200, Nicehck is on a roll!!!


----------



## slappypete (Jun 14, 2017)

@golov17

I saw in an old post of yours from 2015 that you recabled a pair of mx980's. I would like to do the same. Do you have any advice you could offer on opening up these shells without damaging anything? Thanks.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Got my CAX Black in today! Now starts the long burn in process. But wow, the cable is crazy stiff. Got a neat Cypherus box though. 

My CampFred 2 buds just shipped as well. Hopefully no delays for that one.


----------



## ozkan (Jun 14, 2017)

ClieOS said:


> Again, my Vido still requires a bit more burn-in. But as far as initial impression goes, it is surprisingly similar to the original Sennheiser MX500 in tuning, but overall seems to be a bit better as well. Pretty solid entry level earbuds as far as I concerned.
> 
> 
> 
> No. My preference is Stardust > Zen 2.0 > HP-650.




Not agreed. Sennheiser MX500 sounds thinner and less powerful vs Vido. Vido has fuller bass and midrange and has better detail retrieval. At least mine doesn't have similarities with MX500 except shell. 

Are you using it naked or with foams @ClieOS ?


----------



## cigarello

What would you guys say is the best sub $120 earbud? I can get  the  Zen  2.0  for  $110 but everyone seems  to be praising the  Stardust as the top tier earbud...?


----------



## kfarndog

cigarello said:


> What would you guys say is the best sub $120 earbud? I can get  the  Zen  2.0  for  $110 but everyone seems  to be praising the  Stardust as the top tier earbud...?



I quite like the Rose Masya in that price range.  Your mileage always varies, depending on what type of music and signature you prefer.


----------



## ClieOS

ozkan said:


> Not agreed. Sennheiser MX500 sounds thinner and less powerful vs Vido. Vido has fuller bass and midrange and has better detail retrieval. At least mine doesn't have similarities with MX500 except shell.
> 
> Are you using it naked or with foams @ClieOS ?



Both with foam, and I measured the frequency response on both to make sure it isn't just in my head.


----------



## cigarello

kfarndog said:


> I quite like the Rose Masya in that price range.  Your mileage always varies, depending on what type of music and signature you prefer.



Thanks for  your input! I like  a warmer sound signature  that isn't  too  analytical or cold. I do however  love  hearing little  details in the highs but I do prefer to  have a slightly warmer  sound. Mids  cannot be  recessed  too much and I want  at  least some sub and mid bass. 

Is  the  Masya better than the  Zen or Stardust? Maybe @ClieOS  could chime  in? Cheers


----------



## golov17 (Jun 14, 2017)

slappypete said:


> @golov17
> 
> I saw in an old post of yours from 2015 that you recabled a pair of mx980's. I would like to do the same. Do you have any advice you could offer on opening up these shells without damaging anything? Thanks.


No, just be careful, good luck


Spoiler


----------



## PT7673

slappypete said:


> I forgot what the model number for it is and it is no longer in my aliexpress history, but it looks identical to the AWK-F32S (zen 1 cable and aesthetic).  I called it the V1 because I know at the time of purchasing it was the first Seahf 32 ohm bud with that look. So I'd say it is the AWK-F32S, unless they made more than one 32 ohm bud with the zen 1 cable and white housing. Here is a link.



Thanks a lot @slappypete


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Hi all, I got couple of detachable cable with broken end and was thinking using a silver plated one for upgrading earbud I feel need more push (okay, earbud I don't like): the TY Hi Z 32ohm or the earbud include with benjie S5 (not bad, but a little shy-don't know Ohm). 
Anybody already upgrade-mod one of them?
I wonder if it will gain in impact and clarity cause of beter conductivity.....
Any good story about using silver plated cable for upgrade?

Never done this before....perhaps I will do a big mess too...guess t'will be a miss or hit


----------



## ClieOS

cigarello said:


> Is  the  Masya better than the  Zen or Stardust? Maybe @ClieOS  could chime  in? Cheers



Not better then the original Zen nor Stardust, but better than Zen 2.0 while below Zen 2.0 Black.


----------



## slappypete

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Any good story about using silver plated cable for upgrade?



Many people claim to hear differences from upgraded cables. Objectivists will claim there is no difference in sound quality. I tend to lean more in the objective camp myself. I have recabled many headphones and have never noticed a difference in sound quality. I only recable for aesthetic reasons, or to simply have a nicer cable that has less memory effect. If a drastic change in sound quality is what you are after, I'd say you are better off trying out a different earbud instead. Measurements I've seen have showed that cables may have a minor effect at very best on frequency response. Thats not to say it isn't possible there are other things at play that can't be seen in a frequency response graph, but so far I don't know of anyone that has shown objective data confirming sonic improvements from cable swaps. If you are interested in reading about the subject this is a good read.


----------



## cigarello (Jun 15, 2017)

ClieOS said:


> Not better then the original Zen nor Stardust, but better than Zen 2.0 while below Zen 2.0 Black.



Thank  you. What would you suggest for  $120 for a  warm, detailed  sound with a  bit of sub  bass?

And  if I order a balanced Stardust/BK do  I need a balanced amp to use  it? I see it can come with a  balanced adapter? Wouldn't  that  defeat the purpose of being balanced  because  its  still  ending  in  a  3.5mm???


----------



## silverfishla

slappypete said:


> Thanks! I didn't realize it was the NICEHCK DIY PK2. Thought it was something else.


I've been liking the DIY PK2 for the past couple of weeks, casually listening to it with a Zishan Z1.  I even gave it a thumbs up and as a suggestion on this thread...but tonight I REALLY listened to it.  In a dark and quiet room.  It fails to pass the test in 3D headspace.  The highs are cluttered and the whole thing is not very resolving.  In comparison to something like Rose Masya, there is no competition.
DIY PK2 has a good sound "signature", upbeat and punchy...but it has bad resolution if you really listen to it.  Sorry everyone.


----------



## Mahathera

silverfishla said:


> I've been liking the DIY PK2 for the past couple of weeks, casually listening to it with a Zishan Z1.  I even gave it a thumbs up and as a suggestion on this thread...but tonight I REALLY listened to it.  In a dark and quiet room.  It fails to pass the test in 3D headspace.  The highs are cluttered and the whole thing is not very resolving.  In comparison to something like Rose Masya, there is no competition.
> DIY PK2 has a good sound "signature", upbeat and punchy...but it has bad resolution if you really listen to it.  Sorry everyone.



No need to be sorry voicing your thoughts. It is an a forum. 

I myself listen to my DIY PK2 on a bright and not so quiet environment  so all good on my end.
DIY PK2 is now my daily earbuds because it is so easy in my ears. Form factor just excellent like all yuin type really. And the sound is good enough given the price for me.


----------



## chaiyuta

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Hi all, I got couple of detachable cable with broken end and was thinking using a silver plated one for upgrading earbud I feel need more push (okay, earbud I don't like): the TY Hi Z 32ohm or the earbud include with benjie S5 (not bad, but a little shy-don't know Ohm).
> Anybody already upgrade-mod one of them?
> I wonder if it will gain in impact and clarity cause of beter conductivity.....
> Any good story about using silver plated cable for upgrade?
> ...


It depends on synergy between earbuds and an cable. In case of earbuds, I don't have experience but In case of multi-BA iems. Normally silver-plated boost resolution and low-high extension. It brings fast feeling. I ever repair my old-school earbuds and I found that soldering wire has effect on SQ. in case of earbuds I recommend you use non-lead free soldering wire rather than lead free (primarly tin) soldering wire.  I ever heard that some earbuds hardly to get SQ improvement when changing to high quality cable, In the contrary, some have marginally improvement. You might trial & error by yourself.


----------



## springbay

slappypete said:


> Today I decided to take some measurements of my current bud collection to try and get some objective data for comparisons. Take all this with a grain of salt because my measurement rig is far from professional.
> 
> The rig is a simple coupler attatched to a miniDSP UMIK-1 mic. The measurements are raw, uncompensated, and have no smoothing applied to them. I tried my best to get accurate and repeatable results by averaging at least 5 measurements for each earbud and re-seating the earbud for each measurement. Unless stated otherwise, the measurements were all done with Monk Plus Donut foams at 90 dB SPL. The Shozy BK was used as a reference since it is the best I have at the moment.
> 
> ...



Thank you for this. Inspired by your comparison I sat down and did some A/B-ing of my Seahf LD-3.0 150 (guess they're called Seahf AWK-F150C now) and my TY Hi-Z 150 on the iPhone, and also compared the Seahf Smart 1.0 to my TY Hi-Z HP320M on the XDuoo X3.
Even if the difference is not huge, I definitely prefer the Seahf tuning compared to the TY Hi-Z tuning on both. To me the Seahf buds sound more coherent and lively, and also much less fatiguing on challenging tracks like The Mars Volta – This Apparatus Must Be Unearthed.
I don't know if the right word to use should be veiled, but there is something about the TY Hi-Z that's lacking in detail and clarity in comparison to the Seahf tuning.
I got the TY Hi-Z HP650 last year and they could never match on any level with my K's 500.
When the Seahf 650 were released I thought the cable looked ugly and was so pleased with the K's 500 (still am) and underwhelmed with the TY Hi-Z HP650, that I didn't buy them.
I guess I have to give the Seahf 650 a try next time the price is right at Jim's shop, because apparently I'm a Seahf and not a TY Hi-Z kind of guy.


----------



## slappypete

@silverfishla thanks for sharing your thoughts on the DIY PK2.

@springbay you may find this interesting as well... I opened up the HP320M and Seahf Smart 1 (extremely easy to open btw, no glue) to take a look at the drivers and see if there was a difference in how the tuning foam was used. I was thinking you might be able to turn one into the other, but It turns out that they look identical inside. The drivers look the same but I can't spot any build differences so I am assuming the drivers are actually slightly different. Also worth mentioning is that not all MX500 shells I have come across are identical. On some shells the extra hole next to the cable entry hole goes all the way through to the driver area, on others this hole is closed off inside and essentially does nothing. The HP320M and Smart 1 both have this hole closed off inside. I was thinking this hole may have been designed by sennheiser to be a bass port similar to a ported loudspeaker, but I really have no idea at this point what effect it has on the tuning of the earbud.


----------



## noknok23

Diy pk2 really good on poor source Imo, it's some sort of reverse scaling


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

slappypete said:


> Many people claim to hear differences from upgraded cables. Objectivists will claim there is no difference in sound quality. I tend to lean more in the objective camp myself. I have recabled many headphones and have never noticed a difference in sound quality. I only recable for aesthetic reasons, or to simply have a nicer cable that has less memory effect. If a drastic change in sound quality is what you are after, I'd say you are better off trying out a different earbud instead. Measurements I've seen have showed that cables may have a minor effect at very best on frequency response. Thats not to say it isn't possible there are other things at play that can't be seen in a frequency response graph, but so far I don't know of anyone that has shown objective data confirming sonic improvements from cable swaps. If you are interested in reading about the subject this is a good read.



Big thank for your interesting toughs, as I never try to change cable for earbud I might wait to have a broken pair before using the broken cables collection for good, perhaps I will be less obsess to change my Kossportapro cable if it do not improve sound (really like the sound already!).
Personally, with iem, sometime I find the silver plated cable give little more brightness and impact , will do real comparaison to be more objective.

So, for earbud I like great cable, not the big black one like with the TY 32ohm, the Musicmaker earbud cable are always nice for example and at good sub-40$ price. I feel I can pay 10$ extra for great construction, big plastic housing isn't really my cup of tea neither, but YES sound is number 1 interest so if we can get incredible sound for 5$ I can deal with this, but would rather pay a little extra for same earbud with better cable.

Now, I look at these and wonder if any of you have heard them? It's call the ***** Tank* and seller tell me it have a soundstage as big than the Mrz Tomohawk. Cable and metal housing look nice, i'm tempted.
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...32815205964.html?spm=2114.12010615.0.0.AqRDRp

Mrz are the only to give me a WOW effect, with other earbuds I feel sound is always congested, Grado Sr60 like, in your face and punchy etc but still too much in your face and lack air between instrument separation.


----------



## Ira Delphic (Jun 15, 2017)

chaiyuta said:


> It depends on synergy between earbuds and an cable. In case of earbuds, I don't have experience but In case of multi-BA iems. Normally silver-plated boost resolution and low-high extension. It brings fast feeling. I ever repair my old-school earbuds and I found that soldering wire has effect on SQ. in case of earbuds I recommend you use non-lead free soldering wire rather than lead free (primarly tin) soldering wire.  I ever heard that some earbuds hardly to get SQ improvement when changing to high quality cable, In the contrary, some have marginally improvement. You might trial & error by yourself.



I don't doubt your sincerity, but I doubt anyone can tell the difference between most cables or (solder used) in a blind A<->B test, except in extreme cases. The diameter of the cable matters, since thinner had more resistance, higher Ohms. If you can point to any peer reviewed data proving your belief I'd love to see it. A decent cable, like the thick copper cable used in a Monk+ is more than adequate. You can use a $100 silver cable but the electrons don't care.


----------



## springbay

slappypete said:


> @silverfishla thanks for sharing your thoughts on the DIY PK2.
> 
> @springbay you may find this interesting as well... I opened up the HP320M and Seahf Smart 1 (extremely easy to open btw, no glue) to take a look at the drivers and see if there was a difference in how the tuning foam was used. I was thinking you might be able to turn one into the other, but It turns out that they look identical inside. The drivers look the same but I can't spot any build differences so I am assuming the drivers are actually slightly different. Also worth mentioning is that not all MX500 shells I have come across are identical. On some shells the extra hole next to the cable entry hole goes all the way through to the driver area, on others this hole is closed off inside and essentially does nothing. The HP320M and Smart 1 both have this hole closed off inside. I was thinking this hole may have been designed by sennheiser to be a bass port similar to a ported loudspeaker, but I really have no idea at this point what effect it has on the tuning of the earbud.



Interesting, I've not opened mine before. It would be great if someone with the first gen Zen could take a picture of that driver as well to compare.
Or we should just ask the Seahf/TY Hi-Z creator what the difference is. He's in the Earbuds anonymous group @ FB.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Those foam rings speaks volumes on how the tuning was taken into consideration when making those earbuds. Now I need to acquire a pair. The Monk+ doesn't have a foam ring. I'm not sure if the Zen 2.0 does, but I will find out soon (once I source a cable that I like), as I don't like the feeling of the Zen 2.0 Standard cable. I'm thinking OCC Copper anyway. My Zen 2.0 Black Edition will remain in stock form.


----------



## slappypete (Jun 15, 2017)

Ira Delphic said:


> The diameter of the cable matters, since thinner had more resistance, higher Ohms.



Even very thin and long wire would likely have very little effect on sound quality. It would be the same as adding a resistor in series with the driver, which will boost low frequencies around the resonant frequency of the driver, but only marginally and you need quite a lot of extra resistance to do it. Many people do this on purpose to mod their headphones, for example the 75ohm resistor mod for the KSC75. You would need some seriously long and thin wire to have the same effect haha. If we're going to talk about how a stock cable can be less than ideal, then I think its more important to have a 4 wire cable rather than 3. If your headphones have only 3 wires below the Y split then maybe its worth upgrading for sound quality reasons. Luckily most budget earbuds seem to come with 4 wire cables stock. Theoretically if you had a cable with three conductors from the Y split down, and the cables were thin and long, then there could be a negative effect on stereo imaging, or so I've heard.  Here is another good cable read that talks about 3 wire vs 4 wire cables. The page links to a PDF that is very informative. If you care about the 3 vs 4 wire argument and are looking for upgrade cables on aliexpress, then be careful about what you purchase. There are many so called upgrade cables on there that actually have 3 wires below the Y split and would really be a downgrade over most stock earbud cables. It is probably best to stick to the braided cables, since with those it is easy to see how many wires are in the braid.



springbay said:


> Interesting, I've not opened mine before. It would be great if someone with the first gen Zen could take a picture of that driver as well to compare.
> Or we should just ask the Seahf/TY Hi-Z creator what the difference is. He's in the Earbuds anonymous group @ FB.



I agree, I would love to know the difference as well. I wish I could get my hands on a zen 1.


----------



## AkashS04

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Anyone try these Seahf F32??
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...32814353873.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.kTUeVT
> 
> Find very sexy the transparent one with silver plated cable and take the plunge. Very curious about these beauties with great looking L cable!


Transparent one looks really sexy. I agree with you. Looks White (or Silver) is having same cable as well. Do you have any idea about sound stage for Transparent one? Any one has reviewed them?


----------



## ctaxxxx

slappypete said:


> I agree, I would love to know the difference as well. I wish I could get my hands on a zen 1.



There is someone that is trying to sell them HERE.


----------



## slappypete

ctaxxxx said:


> There is someone that is trying to sell them HERE.



Thanks! I just sent a pm to the seller.


----------



## knudsen

Ira Delphic said:


> I don't doubt your sincerity, but I doubt anyone can tell the difference between most cables or (solder used) in a blind A<->B test, except in extreme cases. The diameter of the cable matters, since thinner had more resistance, higher Ohms. If you can point to any peer reviewed data proving your belief I'd love to see it. A decent cable, like the thick copper cable used in a Monk+ is more than adequate. You can use a $100 silver cable but the electrons don't care.


I agree that A/B-testing cables would be extremely difficult to get right. The brain is not developed for judging small differences in sound with seconds, minutes or even years in between. Therefore I suggest (if possible) to put the 2 pairs of buds on a splitter, 1 bud from each pair in each ear and running some sweeps 20-20000hz. Thats one of the things the brain is developed for - judging if the lion will attack from the left or the right. Or locating the sirens.

That's what I did with a recabled and an original Vido, and there was a big difference (especially in subbass), far beyond reasonable doubt (no-one would not be able to hear this). Unfortunately in this case I cannot conclude it was the cable, as they sounded different to begin with - which I still expect was because of the mic-cable, but I cannot know for sure.

Anyway I believe thats the way to go. Then one can say if it matters if its not possible to identify in an A/B-test, which for me it does. Just knowing that I've tested it to be better to my tastes is a good feeling.


----------



## golov17 (Jun 19, 2017)

DRIVERS PICS


Spoiler



Shozy BK





Senn mx880




Powerbeats Dual Driver




EPK1




ATH CM700Ti




Mrice e100







VE Zen








FAAEAL 64 V1




VE ZEN 2.0








AUGLAMOUR & CYGNUS




TY 32 V1




Qian25




SeaHF LD3.0 400




Senn mx980




**** Tank
 
Передняя крышка MX500, she3800, mx980


----------



## slappypete

@golov17 thanks a bunch for posting those photos. Very interesting, especially the zen 1 photos. The drivers in the zen 1 do look very similar, if not identical to the 320 ohm driver in the TY-Hi-Z HP320M and Seahf Smart 1, but the foam arrangement is completely different. I just bought a zen 1 in the buy and sell section. When they come in I will take some measurements and since I have extra tuning foam here I may mess around with the TY and Seahf a bit to see if I can turn one of them into a Zen 1.


----------



## boblauer

cigarello said:


> Thank  you. What would you suggest for  $120 for a  warm, detailed  sound with a  bit of sub  bass?
> 
> And  if I order a balanced Stardust/BK do  I need a balanced amp to use  it? I see it can come with a  balanced adapter? Wouldn't  that  defeat the purpose of being balanced  because  its  still  ending  in  a  3.5mm???


There's yes and no answer to this, sorry sounds evasive. I look at it this way, you can use it with multiple sources so it's a win for that but the best environment would be straight balanced source with balanced plug. IMO balanced does not make a monumental jump out of your seats difference. I enjoy a balanced output but would not say it's something I always strive to find or require.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

@golov17 You sir, have killed my "dial-up" connection. Though, great pictures!


----------



## golov17

WayTooCrazy said:


> @golov17 You sir, have killed my "dial-up" connection. Though, great pictures!


Sorry about spoiler )) corrected


----------



## WayTooCrazy

golov17 said:


> Sorry about spoiler )) corrected



I was saying it tongue in cheek. 56kbps is BOSS... so I'm good.


----------



## AkashS04

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Big thank for your interesting toughs, as I never try to change cable for earbud I might wait to have a broken pair before using the broken cables collection for good, perhaps I will be less obsess to change my Kossportapro cable if it do not improve sound (really like the sound already!).
> Personally, with iem, sometime I find the silver plated cable give little more brightness and impact , will do real comparaison to be more objective.
> 
> So, for earbud I like great cable, not the big black one like with the TY 32ohm, the Musicmaker earbud cable are always nice for example and at good sub-40$ price. I feel I can pay 10$ extra for great construction, big plastic housing isn't really my cup of tea neither, but YES sound is number 1 interest so if we can get incredible sound for 5$ I can deal with this, but would rather pay a little extra for same earbud with better cable.
> ...


I have couple of broken pairs and I've been lazy to throw them away. :|


----------



## DBaldock9

I really like how my VE Asura 2.0 (2.5TRRS) earbuds sound, but I'd like to swap out the slightly short black cable, and re-wire them with the longer VE Espresso (2.5TRRS) cable that I've got. (I'll order another VE Espresso (2.5TRRS) cable.  )

_*BUT ---*_ I don't want to damage them.

So, for those in the know, do the fronts of the Asura 2.0 pop off easily, or are they glued securely?

Thanks for any info!


----------



## golov17 (Jun 15, 2017)

DBaldock9 said:


> I really like how my VE Asura 2.0 (2.5TRRS) earbuds sound, but I'd like to swap out the slightly short black cable, and re-wire them with the longer VE Espresso (2.5TRRS) cable that I've got. (I'll order another VE Espresso (2.5TRRS) cable.  )
> 
> _*BUT ---*_ I don't want to damage them.
> 
> ...


Easy


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Does that not change their "tuning" by putting foams behind the drivers? Might they be "boomier", or do they sound better with their rear waves being diffused? Interesting concept.


----------



## noknok23

@cigarello Shozy BK being very transparent, it needs an impeccable source to shine imo. And when you are looking for the best dap, you'll see that it often has balanced output...


----------



## fairx

slappypete said:


> @golov17 thanks a bunch for posting those photos. Very interesting, especially the zen 1 photos. The drivers in the zen 1 do look very similar, if not identical to the 320 ohm driver in the TY-Hi-Z HP320M and Seahf Smart 1, but the foam arrangement is completely different. I just bought a zen 1 in the buy and sell section. When they come in I will take some measurements and since I have extra tuning foam here I may mess around with the TY and Seahf a bit to see if I can turn one of them into a Zen 1.


As an owner of Hp320M this is renew development. Go for it bro. I'm eagerly waiting for the result.


----------



## slappypete

fairx said:


> As an owner of Hp320M this is renew development. Go for it bro. I'm eagerly waiting for the result.



I'll get on it asap. The Zen 1 already shipped.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

@slappypete Was kinda hoping you'd pass on them so I could grab them. O'well.... I guess I'll have to go for the Shozy Stardust at some point then.


----------



## slappypete

WayTooCrazy said:


> @slappypete Was kinda hoping you'd pass on them so I could grab them. O'well.... I guess I'll have to go for the Shozy Stardust at some point then.



damn... sorry man. If they end up not being to my taste then I'll shoot you a pm to see if you are still interested in buying them.


----------



## springbay

WayTooCrazy said:


> Does that not change their "tuning" by putting foams behind the drivers? Might they be "boomier", or do they sound better with their rear waves being diffused? Interesting concept.



Various buds reacts in different ways to the same modding. I stuck VE thin foams in my FAAEAL 300 DIY, the same way as in golov17's picture. The result was favorable. The overwhelming bass got less excessive and more controlled. And then I plugged the middle vent holes with cotton, which opened up the mids. The FAAEAL 300 DIY then went from totally useless to somewhat pleasing


----------



## cigarello

boblauer said:


> There's yes and no answer to this, sorry sounds evasive. I look at it this way, you can use it with multiple sources so it's a win for that but the best environment would be straight balanced source with balanced plug. IMO balanced does not make a monumental jump out of your seats difference. I enjoy a balanced output but would not say it's something I always strive to find or require.



Thank  you. So if I used a balanced  pair  of  earbuds with  say my non balanced Schiit Lyr or Dragonfly Red, will it still  be balanced or am I just wasting  my  money on  the balanced  version? Or  must I  connect it  to a source thats  balanced?


----------



## DBaldock9

DBaldock9 said:


> I really like how my VE Asura 2.0 (2.5TRRS) earbuds sound, but I'd like to swap out the slightly short black cable, and re-wire them with the longer VE Espresso (2.5TRRS) cable that I've got. (I'll order another VE Espresso (2.5TRRS) cable.  )
> 
> _*BUT ---*_ I don't want to damage them.
> 
> ...



Well, when looking closely through the translucent shell, using my magnifier - it appears that the black cable, even though it seems a bit short, is actually a thicker gauge of wire than the Espresso cable.
So, I don't think I'll rewire my Asura 2.0 right now, after all.


----------



## boblauer

cigarello said:


> Thank  you. So if I used a balanced  pair  of  earbuds with  say my non balanced Schiit Lyr or Dragonfly Red, will it still  be balanced or am I just wasting  my  money on  the balanced  version? Or  must I  connect it  to a source thats  balanced?


Must connect to a source that's balanced but if you have. An adapter that goes balanced to se you can use them that way. Balanced usually implies 2.5 trrs termination where se  implies 3.5 yes.


----------



## PT7673

slappypete said:


> I forgot what the model number for it is and it is no longer in my aliexpress history, but it looks identical to the AWK-F32S (zen 1 cable and aesthetic).  I called it the V1 because I know at the time of purchasing it was the first Seahf 32 ohm bud with that look. So I'd say it is the AWK-F32S, unless they made more than one 32 ohm bud with the zen 1 cable and white housing. Here is a link.



@slappypete  beside the freq. respond on graph between Vido, NICEHCK 200 ohm and Seahf 32 ohm, how about the different in SQ from your ears?

Thanks..


----------



## ClieOS

cigarello said:


> Thank  you. What would you suggest for  $120 for a  warm, detailed  sound with a  bit of sub  bass?
> 
> And  if I order a balanced Stardust/BK do  I need a balanced amp to use  it? I see it can come with a  balanced adapter? Wouldn't  that  defeat the purpose of being balanced  because  its  still  ending  in  a  3.5mm???



The current K's 500ohm v2 might fit the bill. Of course being 500ohm, it will need a decent source as well.

If you ordered a balanced BK, you can either use it with a balanced source / amp or get an extra balanced-to-single-ended adapter to use it with regular source - the upside is now BK can be used either ways, and having more option is never a bad thing.


----------



## ctaxxxx

cigarello said:


> Thank  you. So if I used a balanced  pair  of  earbuds with  say my non balanced Schiit Lyr or Dragonfly Red, will it still  be balanced or am I just wasting  my  money on  the balanced  version? Or  must I  connect it  to a source thats  balanced?



Sell the Lyr and get the Jotunheim. You will hear a subtle improvement between balanced and unbalanced (assuming your bud and DAC is resolving enough). Schiit has a better implementation of balanced over its SE. Having a balanced earbud being used only with an unbalanced adapter and source is a waste. XLR to 2.5mm is better since both connectors are balanced. 

IMO, balanced is mainly for getting extra power to drive phones that need it (like a Zen 2.0). If you have plenty of headroom when turning up the volume, going balanced isn't necessary. It's not night and day in regards to sound quality, unless your DAC has a really crappy SE implementation over its balanced end.


----------



## chaiyuta

Currently Does it has any earbud that has better resolution and detailed than Rose Mojito ?


----------



## cigarello

ClieOS said:


> The current K's 500ohm v2 might fit the bill. Of course being 500ohm, it will need a decent source as well.
> 
> If you ordered a balanced BK, you can either use it with a balanced source / amp or get an extra balanced-to-single-ended adapter to use it with regular source - the upside is now BK can be used either ways, and having more option is never a bad thing.



Will going from the K  500ohm v2  to something ToTL like Diomnes  v2 or campfred 2 make  much difference for the price? Can't decide  if  I should  just  save for  the ToTL earbuds  instead? 



ctaxxxx said:


> Sell the Lyr and get the Jotunheim. You will hear a subtle improvement between balanced and unbalanced (assuming your bud and DAC is resolving enough). Schiit has a better implementation of balanced over its SE. Having a balanced earbud being used only with an unbalanced adapter and source is a waste. XLR to 2.5mm is better since both connectors are balanced.
> 
> IMO, balanced is mainly for getting extra power to drive phones that need it (like a Zen 2.0). If you have plenty of headroom when turning up the volume, going balanced isn't necessary. It's not night and day in regards to sound quality, unless your DAC has a really ****ty SE implementation over its balanced end.



There's  nothing  like tubes  I reckon... Something about the way they look and  being able to  roll them  if your sound preference  changes. 

Yeah,  I think I'll just stick to purchasing single  ended as I have no use for the balanced  earbuds if I  only have a single ended  Lyr


----------



## ClieOS

cigarello said:


> Will going from the K  500ohm v2  to something ToTL like Diomnes  v2 or campfred 2 make  much difference for the price? Can't decide  if  I should  just  save for  the ToTL earbuds  instead?



Have not listened to Diomnes v2 or campfred 2 before, but K's 500ohm v2 is what I consider to be among ToTL earbuds.


----------



## ClieOS (Jun 16, 2017)

chaiyuta said:


> Currently Does it has any earbud that has better resolution and detailed than Rose Mojito ?



Haven't heard any better.


----------



## cigarello

ClieOS said:


> Have not listened to Diomnes v2 or campfred 2 before, but K's 500ohm v2 is what I consider to be among ToTL earbuds.



What kind of sound signature does the K's  500 ohm v2 have? Is it warmer or better than  the Shozy BK?


----------



## ctaxxxx

cigarello said:


> Will going from the K  500ohm v2  to something ToTL like Diomnes  v2 or campfred 2 make  much difference for the price? Can't decide  if  I should  just  save for  the ToTL earbuds  instead?



TOTL buds can be a bit harder to get from individual DIY'ers. Diomnes Lv2 has a waiting list because they don't have the drivers in stock, and CampFred 2 just finished its first batch I believe. You'll have to wait for the next one now, but message Cyperus to be sure.



cigarello said:


> There's  nothing  like tubes  I reckon... Something about the way they look and  being able to  roll them  if your sound preference  changes.
> 
> Yeah,  I think I'll just stick to purchasing single  ended as I have no use for the balanced  earbuds if I  only have a single ended  Lyr



You could upgrade to the Mjolnir, but I think that is out of your price range. Users here tend to use balanced from their DAP. I typically use them for my full-sized headphones. I should try balanced with TOTL earbuds, since I got the DX200 now, but I keep forgetting to ask for it - Maybe once I get one of those fancy custom Cypherus buds. Although, the AMP2 doesn't have a balanced out (for some reason). AMP3 is supposed to be coming out with a balanced line out. 

I don't really like adapters though, especially if the adapter and bud is straight. Is there an L-shaped adapter?


----------



## ClieOS

cigarello said:


> What kind of sound signature does the K's  500 ohm v2 have? Is it warmer or better than  the Shozy BK?



K's 500 v2 has a warm, full and energetic sound with good end-to-end reach, pretty much spot on for mainstream music. In contrast BK is warm tilting toward neutral, and overall more smooth, mature and relax. While I still prefer BK overall, the difference is really small. For example, there are a few who said they think BK is a bit too neutral for their taste - I would think K's 500 v2 might be just their cup of tea.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Well, I went ahead and ordered the Svara L to compare to what I currently have. Also picked up the Fiio F5 to play with. Looking at the K500 next.


----------



## audio123

i must say the Penon BS1 is one of a kind. At the price it is going for, it is really a steal in my honest opinion. Do try it earbud connoisseurs!

http://penonaudio.com/Penon-Audio-BS1-Dynamic-Driver-Earbud


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Okay guys, big hard questions for my personal note cause I forget everything:

What's 5 best earbuds in this price range:
1-20$?
20-50$??
50-100$???

If you can be kind enough to answer this it will be a big help for my futur earbuds choice and the list I make for them.


----------



## slappypete (Jun 16, 2017)

PT7673 said:


> @slappypete  beside the freq. respond on graph between Vido, NICEHCK 200 ohm and Seahf 32 ohm, how about the different in SQ from your ears?
> 
> Thanks..



All right here is my attempt at a subjective review. Please take it all with a grain of salt.

For the comparisons I used both outputs on the Chord Mojo as a source. I used my measurement mic to figure out the correct volume settings for each bud to have as fair a comparison as possible at the same SPL. I tried to switch earbuds and volume settings as fast as possible, but this still left much to be desired.

I didn't compare soundstage qualities as I don't think I'm the best suited to do that comparison. I don't usually notice much in the soundstage department until I've listened to that particular earbud for a good chunk of time and my brain gets used to it. An exception to this would be the MX980, which I immediately noticed something special going on with it. Anyway, on to it...

Seahf 32 ohm vs Vido.
vido sounds warmer with more forward mids.
bass extension sounds the same.
Seahf is what I would call V shaped and treble really stands out.
Vido sounds more balanced and smoother overall to me.

Seahf vs EB200
These two have the most in common of the three in the FR graph
EB200 mids sound slightly warmer (probably because of that hump around 120Hz) and treble sounds similar but I think because of the mids being warmer the treble sounds less in your face.
FR graphs show the EB200 has 3-4dB less energy around 12kHz as well.
Seahf has better bass extension
The lack of bass extension in the EB200 leaves me wanting more, but I prefer it overall to the Seahf because of the tamer treble.

Vido vs EB200
Vido sounds warmer with more forward mids
Vido has much better bass extension
The EB200's treble actually didn't stand out nearly as much to me as in the Seahf comparison, which was a surprise.
The Vido still sounds more balanced and smoother to me.

Overall my personal preference would be Vido>EB200>Seahf. I prefer the vido to both of them by quite a large margin. The Vido is just more in line with my tastes and what I would consider more natural or neutral sounding. My idea of neutral is probably a lot different from most. Idealy I want a headphone to sound as speaker-like as possible, which to me means a little extra warmth in the bass, mids a touch to the warm and forward side, and relaxed yet not recessed treble. I only really care about bass extension to 40hz, and treble roll off beyond 10kHz is fine with me too. Building loudspeakers is another hobby of mine. I am a big fan of single full range driver setups and earbuds in general remind me of that sound, which is why I like them so much. The Vido I think does a great job all-round and really out performs its price range in my opinion.


----------



## audio123

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Okay guys, big hard questions for my personal note cause I forget everything:
> 
> What's 5 best earbuds in this price range:
> 1-20$?
> ...


musicmaker tp16

penon bs1

ty hiz 400 se


----------



## CharlesRievone

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Okay guys, big hard questions for my personal note cause I forget everything:
> 
> What's 5 best earbuds in this price range:
> 1-20$?
> ...



No particular order, only from what I can remember on top of my head:

<$20:
EXM500
NiceHCK PK2
Yincrow X6
RY4S
Vido

<$100:
Uairekko Custom Earbuds
Shozy Cygnus
Edimun V3
TY Hi-Z 650
VE Zen


----------



## audio123

CharlesRievone said:


> No particular order, only from what I can remember on top of my head:
> 
> <$20:
> EXM500
> ...


cygnus 650 zen are more than 100


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

audio123 said:


> cygnus 650 zen are more than 100


Yeah, I see this when searching price for VE Zen...cause of this I fall on headfi review that compare them to sennheiser HD600 and was like Whaaaaaaat?! IS it possible to be enveloppe in a soundstage like HD600.

So much great earbuds, the Penon BS1 look incredibly well constructed, how would you describe the sound? Especially soundstage and clarity?

And I must admit i'm a little reluctant about buying high impendance earbud, especially more than 150ohm cause i'm afraid my Ibasso DX90 will no drive them properly (Xduoo X3 struggle with 32ohm earbuds so). I see high impendance are Always mroe expensive, and don't really understand why....as my Fiio E7 is must likely broken I don't have portable amp, perhaps should buy one but in sub-100$ amp I really don't know what to choose.


----------



## CharlesRievone

audio123 said:


> cygnus 650 zen are more than 100


Cygnus is around 90 usd. One can get TY650 for around 100-110 usd if you ask for discount. VE Zen is indeed more than 100 but I couldn't really think of anything else to suggest.


----------



## noknok23

Blur very good for <$100. However 300 ohm...
**** Epk1 <$20
Can't really think of anything for 20<50 range... perhaps Eliking at $30seems very promising but it's not easy to get (DIY from Vietnam, only contact through messenger)


----------



## KookaBurrra

Nymphonomaniac said:


> And I must admit i'm a little reluctant about buying high impendance earbud, especially more than 150ohm cause i'm afraid my Ibasso DX90 will no drive them properly (Xduoo X3 struggle with 32ohm earbuds so). *I see high impendance are Always mroe expensive, and don't really understand why....*as my Fiio E7 is must likely broken I don't have portable amp, perhaps should buy one but in sub-100$ amp I really don't know what to choose.



Same question here... Aside from the cable upgrade I do not understand the big price increase ... (maybe just the hype ?? )


----------



## KookaBurrra

audio123 said:


> Thank you for your kind words. The Rose Masya is really good for the price. Smooth Operator.



@audio123 : I see you also have the TY Hi-Z HP 400 SE and the TY Hi-Z HP 650... Can you compare them to Rose Masya, in a few words, please ?


----------



## cigarello

ClieOS said:


> K's 500 v2 has a warm, full and energetic sound with good end-to-end reach, pretty much spot on for mainstream music. In contrast BK is warm tilting toward neutral, and overall more smooth, mature and relax. While I still prefer BK overall, the difference is really small. For example, there are a few who said they think BK is a bit too neutral for their taste - I would think K's 500 v2 might be just their cup of tea.



Okay thank  you,  I'll  definitely look into  the  K500. Any  words on how it compares to  the Masya?


----------



## upsguys88 (Jun 16, 2017)

golov17 said:


> For me, the differences are so insignificant that there is no way to justify the difference in prices, IMHO
> Manufacturer SATOREX, according to some information.



So they are the same drivers?? 
Do the pk2 sound the same as the Cygnus?


----------



## golov17 (Jun 16, 2017)

upsguys88 said:


> So they are the same drivers??
> Do the pk2 sound the same as the Cygnus?


This question to Satorex, lol
Moreover


----------



## audio123

KookaBurrra said:


> @audio123 : I see you also have the TY Hi-Z HP 400 SE and the TY Hi-Z HP 650... Can you compare them to Rose Masya, in a few words, please ?


650 is totl earbud. it is the best earbud in my opinion way better than masya.


----------



## upsguys88

golov17 said:


> This question to Satorex, lol
> Moreover



So, the Cygnus sound similar to the pk2 though? Or are much better?


----------



## upsguys88

golov17 said:


> This question to Satorex, lol
> Moreover



What you're saying, is that you're paying for the cable not nos Cygnus drivers?


----------



## golov17

upsguys88 said:


> What you're saying, is that you're paying for the cable not nos Cygnus drivers?


Just, buy & try


----------



## cigarello

audio123 said:


> 650 is totl earbud. it is the best earbud in my opinion way better than masya.



How is it better than  masya? Like in what ways?


----------



## upsguys88

golov17 said:


> Just, buy & try


Just curious what are those other buds in the pic the nicechk pk2?


----------



## ClieOS

cigarello said:


> Okay thank  you,  I'll  definitely look into  the  K500. Any  words on how it compares to  the Masya?



The great thing about Masya is that it has a very versatile sound that can cover a wide range of music, though it might not have a particularly outstanding genre. In contrast, K's 500 v2 is more toward mainstream. Beyond that, I'll say they are close in overall SQ though I'll give K's 500 v2 a very slight edge.


----------



## ClieOS

I measured both Cygnus, Docomo as well as NiceHCK's DIY PK2. The later two are almost identical in FR curve, suggesting NickHCK has probably recabled the Docomo (which comes only with very short cable). Cygnus actually also share very similar FR curve, but somehow showing a few dB more sensitivity. My guess is that the driver is likely also from Docomo, bit Shozy's choice of cable make a slightly more noticeable difference im tuning.


----------



## upsguys88

ClieOS said:


> I measured both Cygnus, Docomo as well as NiceHCK's DIY PK2. The later two are almost identical in FR curve, suggesting NickHCK has probably recabled the Docomo (which comes only with very short cable). Cygnus actually also share very similar FR curve, but somehow showing a few dB more sensitivity. My guess is that the driver is likely also from Docomo, bit Shozy's choice of cable make a slightly more noticeable difference im tuning.



Can I still buy a pair of the docomo?


----------



## nmatheis

Killer buds incoming from my man Ryo at Uairekko Cust'm Buds!!!

Meet Sakura + Cosmos...


----------



## rahmish

nmatheis said:


> Killer buds incoming from my man Ryo at Uairekko Cust'm Buds!!!
> 
> Meet Sakura + Cosmos...


Mmm,looks tasty,  I'm waiting for mine now...


----------



## ClieOS

upsguys88 said:


> Can I still buy a pair of the docomo?



Sure, there are some left on Taobao. However, you will need to recable it, so might as well get the DIY PK2 instead.


----------



## KookaBurrra

audio123 said:


> 650 is totl earbud. it is the best earbud in my opinion way better than masya.



Thanks a lot ! I'm going to have in a few days some TY Hi-Z HP400SE, hope they are "close" to TY Hi-Z HP650!!


----------



## DBaldock9

Have any of y'all assembled / modified any MX500 style earbuds, using the "Bass" model of these drivers?  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/15-4mm-speaker-unit-earphone-driver-bass-vocal/32477644538.html
Or, have you used any of these "_double unit hifi moving coil Tri-band equalization_" drivers?  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/15-...band-equalization-1pair-2pcs/32800609693.html


----------



## golov17

@DBaldock9


----------



## ctaxxxx

nmatheis said:


> Killer buds incoming from my man Ryo at Uairekko Cust'm Buds!!!
> 
> Meet Sakura + Cosmos...



That's gorgeous! I'm definitely placing an order.


----------



## Saoshyant

@nmatheis My only issue with my Ryo buds is the cable on one of them while gorgeous, is quite stiff compared to the other, plus has a bit of memory to it.  Otherwise I have zero complaints.  It just came down to the wrong cable choice on my part.  I'm glad I took a chance on them, and very happy to see he's getting more business in the US.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

DBaldock9 said:


> Have any of y'all assembled / modified any MX500 style earbuds, using the "Bass" model of these drivers?  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/15-4mm-speaker-unit-earphone-driver-bass-vocal/32477644538.html
> Or, have you used any of these "_double unit hifi moving coil Tri-band equalization_" drivers?  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/15-...band-equalization-1pair-2pcs/32800609693.html



I'm already interested in your findings. You should try both.


----------



## nmatheis

rahmish said:


> Mmm,looks tasty,  I'm waiting for mine now...



What's your artwork, bro? I just said Japanese Nature and Space themes and let Ryo choose the actual artwork. I think he did a great job!




Saoshyant said:


> @nmatheis My only issue with my Ryo buds is the cable on one of them while gorgeous, is quite stiff compared to the other, plus has a bit of memory to it.  Otherwise I have zero complaints.  It just came down to the wrong cable choice on my part.  I'm glad I took a chance on them, and very happy to see he's getting more business in the US.



I let him know I prefer supple cable, so we'll see what he came up with for me. He did say he had multiple choices and could accommodate my request for a supple cable.


----------



## chaiyuta

@ctaxxxx , For 2.5BL to 3.5SE L-shape adaptor, I know 2 brands. One is Effect Audio and Second is Brimar. Hope this help. For customized paint earbud, I recommend you find any gorgeous painting that you favour to use as artwork on earbud.


----------



## chaiyuta (Jun 17, 2017)

@DBaldock9 I also interesting in that one. but @golov17 does not share his impression too much in details. 

Could you confirmed that it is the same driver of Powerbeats3 Wireless?


----------



## chaiyuta

Where can I find the full specs of Meizu EP-21HD especially the diameter of driver?


----------



## upsguys88 (Jun 17, 2017)

chaiyuta said:


> @ctaxxxx , For 2.5BL to 3.5SE L-shape adaptor, I know 2 brands. One is Effect Audio and Second is Brimar. Hope this help. For customized paint earbud, I recommend you find any gorgeous painting that you favour to use as artwork on earbud.



Do you know anywhere to get an adapter like that that is 2.5mm female trrs to 3.5mm male trrs?
Something like this:


----------



## chaiyuta

@ClieOS : Could you provide me the taobao link that sell Docomo?


----------



## chaiyuta

@upsguys88 : For L-shape, I know more one that is Labkable's. Currently I use straight-shape adaptor from Effect Audio. Another straight-shape one that I know is Norne Audio's.


----------



## nmatheis

I use straight 2.5mm -> 3.5mm adapter from my man @alpha421 up in Seattle


----------



## Raketen (Jun 17, 2017)

upsguys88 said:


> Do you know anywhere to get an adapter like that that is 2.5mm female trrs to 3.5mm male trrs?
> Something like this:



Venture Electronics 'basic cable' product page lets you select 'adapter' and then whatever connections you need for very reasonable price. I think they only do "pigtail" style using a length of cable between the connectors, not a straight barrel adapter (actually I prefer the "pigtail" since it's less likely to stress the source's socket). I think I have seen some adapters on Lunashops, Penon etc.., but if price is not an issue just about any custom cable maker can do this for you (I can also rec alpha421 who has decent prices).


----------



## nmatheis

Raketen said:


> Venture Electronics 'basic cable' product page lets you select 'adapter' and then whatever connections you need. I think they only do "pigtail" style using a length of cable between the connectors, not a straight barrel adapter (actually I prefer the "pigtail" since it's less likely to stress the source's socket). I think I have seen some adapters on Lunashops, Penon etc.., but if price is not an issue just about any custom cable maker can do this for you.



Those VE adapters worked well with VE buds, but they were a bit loose for my other 2.5mm balanced plugs making a solid connection difficult. They were early models, though. Perhaps that issue had been fixed by now or was just a fluke...


----------



## chaiyuta

nmatheis said:


> Those VE adapters worked well with VE buds, but they were a bit loose for my other 2.5mm balanced plugs making a solid connection difficult. They were early models, though. Perhaps that issue had been fixed by now or was just a fluke...


I'd ever used VE adapter with Monk+ 2.5mm balanced and it loose. If I want to hear sound cosecutively, I have not to move any parts of my body. Also, I prefer straight-type adapter rather than L-shape or cable-type.


----------



## upsguys88

chaiyuta said:


> I'd ever used VE adapter with Monk+ 2.5mm balanced and it loose. If I want to hear sound cosecutively, I have not to move any parts of my body. Also, I prefer straight-type adapter rather than L-shape or cable-type.


Do you have a link to the adapter from effect?


----------



## chaiyuta

@upsguys88 : Sorry I don't understand your question. Do you mean the effect on SQ when use adaptor and when does not use? I added hyperlink on every "BLUE"-color font of the companies' name.


----------



## rahmish

nmatheis said:


> What's your artwork, bro? I just said Japanese Nature and Space themes and let Ryo choose the actual artwork. I think he did a great job!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My artwork is space based, but I just send him couple of pictures of colors which I want him to include, so mainly is up to him, can't wait to see what he will create!


----------



## DBaldock9

WayTooCrazy said:


> I'm already interested in your findings. You should try both.





chaiyuta said:


> @DBaldock9 I also interesting in that one. but @golov17 does not share his impression too much in details.
> 
> Could you confirmed that it is the same driver of Powerbeats3 Wireless?



I'm putting an AliExpress "Wish List / Order" together, and will probably order at least one pair of each of those (and some other) drivers, various MX500 & MX760 shells, driver tuning "cotton" (foam), colorful 30AWG & 26AWG wire, and plugs - to experiment with assembling & tuning  some earbuds.

I need to find a _non-permenent_ glue, to use in the earbuds.  Was considering small dabs of silicone caulk, but I know that some caulk out-gasses fumes, which can actually damage the adhesives that hold drivers together.


As far as the Powerbeats3 Wireless driver --- I have run across at least one listing that mentions "Powerbeats" -
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...speaker-15MM-Best-HIFI/323026_2054213859.html


----------



## nmatheis

Just ordered TY Hi-Z 650ohm


----------



## nmatheis

I've got something like 5 or 6 more DIY buds coming from Indonesia, too


----------



## ValSilva

Hi @golov17  what did you think about those NICEHCK **** PT15? I saw that you bought it recently. Good for vocals?


----------



## WayTooCrazy

DBaldock9 said:


> I'm putting an AliExpress "Wish List / Order" together, and will probably order at least one pair of each of those (and some other) drivers, various MX500 & MX760 shells, driver tuning "cotton" (foam), colorful 30AWG & 26AWG wire, and plugs - to experiment with assembling & tuning  some earbuds.
> 
> I need to find a _non-permenent_ glue, to use in the earbuds.  Was considering small dabs of silicone caulk, but I know that some caulk out-gasses fumes, which can actually damage the adhesives that hold drivers together.
> 
> ...



As far as the "glue" goes. I'd probably go with the tiniest dab of "hot Glue". I'd even put it on the outside and with a wet finger, blend it in. That way... just rubbing the outside would remove the glue, or a hairdryer and 2-3 seconds will allow them to pull apart.


----------



## golov17

ValSilva said:


> Hi @golov17  what did you think about those NICEHCK **** PT15? I saw that you bought it recently. Good for vocals?


Unfortunately, I tried DIY it and broke it again, already two pairs, lol


----------



## golov17 (Jun 17, 2017)

chaiyuta said:


> @DBaldock9 I also interesting in that one. but @golov17 does not share his impression too much in details.
> 
> Could you confirmed that it is the same driver of Powerbeats3 Wireless?


This is a good driver, but the fact is that from different shells, very much will depend, and I doubt that someone wants to buy a Vsonic uu2 specifically for DIY it .. Therefore ..


----------



## golov17 (Jun 17, 2017)

Docomo
https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/de...82&from=inshop&wp_app=weapp&wp_p=521991351143


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=544491031669&spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.nLjlfT#detail
> https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/de...82&from=inshop&wp_app=weapp&wp_p=521991351143



First link is also where I got mine, but unfortunately they are out of stock.


----------



## golov17 (Jun 17, 2017)

ClieOS said:


> First link is also where I got mine, but unfortunately they are out of stock.


Thx, corrected, btw, what is it?
http://www.e-earphone.jp/shop/shopdetail.html?brandcode=000000083291&search=auto+rosen&sort


----------



## rkw

@ClieOS, any more impressions to share on the Moondrop Liebesleid?


----------



## Mahathera

Other than moondrop i also would like to know more about astrotec lyra. That one has a price tag of totl line up. Would be nice to hear more about it from our earbud-sifu.


----------



## Dark Helmet

nmatheis said:


> I've got something like 5 or 6 more DIY buds coming from Indonesia, too


You're a hoarder.


----------



## Raketen

nmatheis said:


> Those VE adapters worked well with VE buds, but they were a bit loose for my other 2.5mm balanced plugs making a solid connection difficult. They were early models, though. Perhaps that issue had been fixed by now or was just a fluke...



Haven't used a 2.5mm female, but not had connection issues with 3.5mm TRRS male & female, 2.5mm male with the "Basic" molded and "cola can" connectors (though my Asura did have an excessively stripped wire shorting against a nearby pole inside the 3.5mm I was able to rectify with a sliver of electrical tape). Still, hard to beat the prices.

I noticed in the new 'basic cable' builder  there are now two options for 2.5mm female connectors, one molded 'basic' the other looks more like a typical DIY component, I wonder if this one has the same issues?


----------



## chaiyuta

golov17 said:


> Docomo
> https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/de...82&from=inshop&wp_app=weapp&wp_p=521991351143



Which option that is "White color shell with standard and cheapest cable" ?


----------



## DBaldock9

ValSilva said:


> Hi @golov17  what did you think about those NICEHCK **** PT15? I saw that you bought it recently. Good for vocals?



I ordered a set of **** PT15 last Fall from AK Audio Store, and while I didn't find them harsh sounding, like so many others reported here - they were light on Bass, with stronger Midrange & Treble.
In April, one had a connector failure, so I ordered a replacement set from AK Audio Store.  The new set have considerably more Bass, which is actually balanced in level with the Midrange & Treble.
I think the $15 (without cable) PT15, actually have a better Midrange & Treble, and sound stage - than the much more expensive Svara L that I've just received.


----------



## golov17 (Jun 18, 2017)

chaiyuta said:


> Which option that is "White color shell with standard and cheapest cable" ?


Do you understand that the original has a 4-pin and needs an adapter or a cable change yourself?


----------



## nmatheis

Dark Helmet said:


> You're a hoarder.



You caught me, bro

But seriously, the Indonesian DIY bud scene is amazing. So much there we're not exposed to on in the West. I'm having fun discovering new modders. Hopefully I'll enjoy their buds!

There's even one guy making a diy "planar" type earbud. How cool is that!?!


----------



## Dark Helmet

nmatheis said:


> You caught me, bro
> 
> But seriously, the Indonesian DIY bud scene is amazing. So much there we're not exposed to on in the West. I'm having fun discovering new modders. Hopefully I'll enjoy their buds!
> 
> There's even one guy making a diy "planar" type earbud. How cool is that!?!


Where are you finding these builders?


----------



## nmatheis

Dark Helmet said:


> Where are you finding these builders?



I'm connected, bro


----------



## ClieOS

upsguys88 said:


> Do you know anywhere to get an adapter like that that is 2.5mm female trrs to 3.5mm male trrs?
> Something like this:



I use those from Lunashops. Not terribly expensive but will get the job done all the same, and quite good quality overall as well.



chaiyuta said:


> @ClieOS : Could you provide me the taobao link that sell Docomo?





golov17 said:


> Do you understand that the original has a 4-pin and needs an adapter or a cable change yourself?



What @golov17 said. Those Docomo comes with balanced TRRS plug (same as Hifiman's) and really short cable. You will have to get a balanced-to-single-ended extension cable or recable it yourself before you can use it.



golov17 said:


> Thx, corrected, btw, what is it?
> http://www.e-earphone.jp/shop/shopdetail.html?brandcode=000000083291&search=auto+rosen&sort



Magic button sticker made out of unicorn's tear and Zeus' thunder, or otherwise self-deluding + money-making faux audio improvement... or actually both.



rkw said:


> @ClieOS, any more impressions to share on the Moondrop Liebesleid?



Will post tomorrow, I want to give it enough burn-in, regardless of whether it will benefit or not, just to be 100% sure.



Mahathera said:


> Other than moondrop i also would like to know more about astrotec lyra. That one has a price tag of totl line up. Would be nice to hear more about it from our earbud-sifu.



Lyra as in the original Lyra 1st gen, or do you mean the current Lyra Classic. There are 3 generations already: Lyra (1st gen) -> Lyra 6 (2nd gen, the one with ear clip) and Lyra Classic (latest, 3rd gen).

If you mean Lyra Classic, it is a pretty good earbud but by no mean a real ToTL in SQ when compared to true ToTL earbuds but only appears to be ToTL in price tag and build quality. The SQ is right around upper mid tier to lower 2nd tier IMO. Still it is an small improvement over the previous Lyra 6.


----------



## Mahathera

ClieOS said:


> Lyra as in the original Lyra 1st gen, or do you mean the current Lyra Classic. There are 3 generations already: Lyra (1st gen) -> Lyra 6 (2nd gen, the one with ear clip) and Lyra Classic (latest, 3rd gen).
> 
> If you mean Lyra Classic, it is a pretty good earbud but by no mean a real ToTL in SQ when compared to true ToTL earbuds but only appears to be ToTL in price tag and build quality. The SQ is right around upper mid tier to lower 2nd tier IMO. Still it is an small improvement over the previous Lyra 6.



I meant the latest Lyra Classic, 3rd gen. Well, I was hoping for good sound out of that sturdy bud. It looks nice and premium too.
Thanks anyway bro.


----------



## chaiyuta

Thanks for info I'd never known what the original plug type of Docomo is. If I buy, I will send it to a local DIY shop. My mainly concern is about how can I choose "White" color.


----------



## ValSilva

@DBaldock9 and @golov17 tks a lot for the reply


----------



## rahmish

nmatheis said:


> You caught me, bro
> 
> But seriously, the Indonesian DIY bud scene is amazing. So much there we're not exposed to on in the West. I'm having fun discovering new modders. Hopefully I'll enjoy their buds!
> 
> There's even one guy making a diy "planar" type earbud. How cool is that!?!


Is it Reno Wahyugi from earbud anonymous with planar earbuds? Have you contacted him? This is interesting project, I thought planar drivers used only in over head headphones, so I'm interested too!


----------



## ctaxxxx

rahmish said:


> Is it Reno Wahyugi from earbud anonymous with planar earbuds? Have you contacted him? This is interesting project, I thought planar drivers used only in over head headphones, so I'm interested too!



Audeze made in-ear planars so it's not impossible. I'm curious to see how he is getting the materials and funding though since this would be all new tech for something this small. Unless these are "planar-like" and not actual planar drivers. Mini LCD-like earbuds still sound pretty sweet.


----------



## nmatheis

rahmish said:


> Is it Reno Wahyugi from earbud anonymous with planar earbuds? Have you contacted him? This is interesting project, I thought planar drivers used only in over head headphones, so I'm interested too!





ctaxxxx said:


> Audeze made in-ear planars so it's not impossible. I'm curious to see how he is getting the materials and funding though since this would be all new tech for something this small. Unless these are "planar-like" and not actual planar drivers. Mini LCD-like earbuds still sound pretty sweet.



Yes, it's Reno. He's got working prototypes already and is working on initial product. I'm in contact and have expressed interest in purchasing when they're ready. 

And there's a reason I specifically said "planar" type earbuds and not planar earbuds


----------



## KookaBurrra

ctaxxxx said:


> Audeze made in-ear planars so it's not impossible.



LCDi4 In-Ear Headphone => Transducer size : 30mm
iSINE20 In-Ear Headphone => Transducer size : 30mm
iSINE10 In-Ear Headphone => Transducer size : 30mm

30mm... Difficult to get this into a earbud, no ? (if Audeze did not make smaller, it was because he could not!)


----------



## ctaxxxx

KookaBurrra said:


> 30mm... Difficult to get this into a earbud, no ? (if Audeze did not make smaller, it was because he could not!)



Unless the structural design is similar, but then it wouldn't feel like an earbud anymore. Maybe in the future then. 



nmatheis said:


> And there's a reason I specifically said "planar" type earbuds and not planar earbuds



I noticed that. I was just addressing rahmish's comment.


----------



## upsguys88 (Jun 18, 2017)

ClieOS said:


> Lunashops



Do you have a direct link for the adapter? Do I need to buy in bulk from them?


----------



## upsguys88

Anyone know where I can just buy these? On AliExpress maybe?


----------



## WayTooCrazy (Jun 18, 2017)

I didn't  see those, but these look interesting...

http://s.aliexpress.com/bam2ArQ3

The nicest ones I saw were by Earhoox... but I don't think they're sold anymore. So, probably best to go back to Venture Electronics and buy their EX-Pack.


----------



## ClieOS (Jun 18, 2017)

upsguys88 said:


> Do you have a direct link for the adapter? Do I need to buy in bulk from them?


Of course not, they are sold individually. What gives you that idea? 

3.5mm TRRS male to 2.5mm TRRS female






2.5mm TRRS male to 3.5mm TRRS female


----------



## nmatheis

KookaBurrra said:


> LCDi4 In-Ear Headphone => Transducer size : 30mm
> iSINE20 In-Ear Headphone => Transducer size : 30mm
> iSINE10 In-Ear Headphone => Transducer size : 30mm
> 
> 30mm... Difficult to get this into a earbud, no ? (*if Audeze did not make smaller, it was because he could not!*)



I don't think this is true. I'm sure Audeze used the exact size needed for the sound they were going after given the constraints of an in-store format. That doesn't mean the drivers couldn't be smaller size. It's just not what Audeze needed for their implementation.


----------



## DBaldock9

upsguys88 said:


> Anyone know where I can just buy these? On AliExpress maybe?



They've been dropped by vendor I ordered some from, but there's another vendor who has them - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...Earplugs-For-In-ear-earphone/32810617185.html


----------



## upsguys88

ClieOS said:


> Of course not, they are sold individually. What gives you that idea?
> 
> 3.5mm TRRS male to 2.5mm TRRS female
> 
> ...


'

Will this one work? 
http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=2997


----------



## ClieOS (Jun 18, 2017)

upsguys88 said:


> '
> 
> Will this one work?
> http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=2997



This one for for converting 2.5mm TRRS for headset (w/ mic) to 3.5mm cellphone / PC jack - it is a straight size conversion and not a rewiring between 2.5mm and 3.5mm TRRS balanced plug. In other words: No, it won't work. Try to use this one on a balanced headphone might actually burn the headphone driver or short circuit the source.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

DBaldock9 said:


> They've been dropped by vendor I ordered some from, but there's another vendor who has them - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...Earplugs-For-In-ear-earphone/32810617185.html



You ROCK!


----------



## WayTooCrazy

ClieOS said:


> This one for for converting 2.5mm TRRS for headset (w/ mic) to 3.5mm cellphone / PC jack - it is a straight size conversion and not a rewiring between 2.5mm and 3.5mm TRRS balanced plug. In other words: No, it won't work. Try to use this one on a balanced headphone might actually burn the headphone driver or short circuit the source.



Yes, pinout is IMPORTANT!  You could probably order one from Venture Electronics. I actually DIY my own.


----------



## upsguys88

ClieOS said:


> This one for for converting 2.5mm TRRS for headset (w/ mic) to 3.5mm cellphone / PC jack - it is a straight size conversion and not a rewiring between 2.5mm and 3.5mm TRRS balanced plug. In other words: No, it won't work. Try to use this one on a balanced headphone might actually burn the headphone driver or short circuit the source.



Thanks! also do you know if I can find one that is a right angle without the wire?  A direct conversion?


----------



## upsguys88

WayTooCrazy said:


> Yes, pinout is IMPORTANT!  You could probably order one from Venture Electronics. I actually DIY my own.



Could you make one for me? one without a cable?


----------



## upsguys88

DBaldock9 said:


> They've been dropped by vendor I ordered some from, but there's another vendor who has them - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...Earplugs-For-In-ear-earphone/32810617185.html


Thanks you are a life saver!


----------



## upsguys88

nmatheis said:


> I use straight 2.5mm -> 3.5mm adapter from my man @alpha421 up in Seattle



do you have a picture?


----------



## rkw (Jun 18, 2017)

upsguys88 said:


> Will this one work?
> http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=2997





ClieOS said:


> This one for for converting 2.5mm TRRS for headset (w/ mic) to 3.5mm cellphone / PC jack - it is a straight size conversion and not a rewiring between 2.5mm and 3.5mm TRRS balanced plug. In other words: No, it won't work. Try to use this one on a balanced headphone might actually burn the headphone driver or short circuit the source.


Can you explain the wiring difference between that and the pigtail style you posted? Looking at the descriptions, I would have thought they are both straight-through 4-wire connections, TRRS to TRRS.


----------



## ClieOS (Jun 19, 2017)

rkw said:


> Can you explain the wiring difference between this and the pigtail style you posted? Looking at the descriptions, I would have thought they are both straight-through 4-wire connections, TRRS to TRRS.



The cheap one @upsguys88 linked works like such: 2.5mm TRRS (Left / Right / Ground / Mic) to 3.5mm TRRS (Left / Right / Ground / Mic) - _the wiring / pin-out doesn't change from one end to the other. I color coded them to show you the difference._

A balanced plug convertor however goes like this: 2.5mm TRRS (Right- / Right+ / Left+ / Left-) to 3.5mm TRRS (Left+ / Right+ / Left- / Right-) - _the wiring is completely different between the two end and has to be rewired correctly to avoid short circuiting. 
_
If the adapter doesn't specifically said it is for balanced use, you have to assume it is not. There is not such a thing as an international standard on how to wiring these sort of things and therefore you can't assume they will all work.


----------



## PT7673

slappypete said:


> All right here is my attempt at a subjective review. Please take it all with a grain of salt.
> 
> For the comparisons I used both outputs on the Chord Mojo as a source. I used my measurement mic to figure out the correct volume settings for each bud to have as fair a comparison as possible at the same SPL. I tried to switch earbuds and volume settings as fast as possible, but this still left much to be desired.
> 
> ...



Thanks a lot @slappypete for the comments. You've been very helpful. Now I can make decision.


----------



## Dark Helmet

How are the Nicehck EB200?


----------



## rkw

ClieOS said:


> The cheap one you linked works like such: 2.5mm TRRS (Left / Right / Ground / Mic) to 3.5mm TRRS (Left / Right / Ground / Mic) - _the wiring / pin-out doesn't change from one end to the other. I color coded them to show you the difference._
> 
> A balanced plug convertor however goes like this: 2.5mm TRRS (Right- / Right+ / Left+ / Left-) to 3.5mm TRRS (Left+ / Right+ / Left- / Right-) - _the wiring is completely different between the two end and has to be rewired correctly to avoid short circuiting.
> _
> If the adapter doesn't specifically said it is for balanced use, you have to assume it is not. There is not such a thing as an international standard on how to wiring these sort of things and therefore you can't assume they will all work.


Thanks, I assumed that balanced TRRS would have the same ring assignments for 3.5mm and 2.5mm, and I had no idea that they are different!

I found this diagram:


----------



## KookaBurrra

nmatheis said:


> I don't think this is true. I'm sure Audeze used the exact size needed for the sound they were going after given the constraints of an in-store format. That doesn't mean the drivers couldn't be smaller size. It's just not what Audeze needed for their implementation.



I think that Planar driver can't sound good if they are to small... They need a minimal size to work in the right way. And Audeze find it : 30mm.
Just my felling. 

But someone can make something like Koss KDE250 :


 

Could be very good with Planar driver !!


----------



## chellity

Dark Helmet said:


> How are the Nicehck EB200?



I think they're pretty amazing for the price, probably my favorite affordable earbuds i've tried.  The first thing I noticed was great imaging for an earbud in this price range.  It's a pretty well balanced sound with some of that higher resolution you would want from a bud slightly more expensive than a vido.  I got the vido and the eb200 at the same time, and they're both great for different things.  The vidos have the best bass but they sound veiled and not as resolving as the eb200, out of my cayin n3.  So I use the vidos for great iphone bass, but when i'm wanting a well balanced sound for the wide variety of genres I listen to, I love the eb200.  They also take bass EQ really well to really give it some punchiness.  With EQ on, I got it down to about 26hz for a usable tone...pretty good for a balanced do it all bud at a good price.  They even displaced my hd 580s for a while, because I was enjoying the great sound from a small earbud.  I like them over diy pk2 or tp16.  They're great along with some vidos!


----------



## Trippin

Been looking to get some earbuds at the 100$ mark with a zishan z1 and I've narrowed my choices down to the Rose Masya, k's 500 and Shozy cygnus. Is the extra 20$ for the masya from the cygnus worth it? I'm trying to spend less XP. Any other suggestions around that price?


----------



## chaiyuta

chaiyuta said:


> @ctaxxxx , For 2.5BL to 3.5SE L-shape adaptor, I know 2 brands. One is Effect Audio and Second is Brimar. Hope this help. For customized paint earbud, I recommend you find any gorgeous painting that you favour to use as artwork on earbud.


@upsguys88


----------



## Dark Helmet

chellity said:


> I think they're pretty amazing for the price, probably my favorite affordable earbuds i've tried.  The first thing I noticed was great imaging for an earbud in this price range.  It's a pretty well balanced sound with some of that higher resolution you would want from a bud slightly more expensive than a vido.  I got the vido and the eb200 at the same time, and they're both great for different things.  The vidos have the best bass but they sound veiled and not as resolving as the eb200, out of my cayin n3.  So I use the vidos for great iphone bass, but when i'm wanting a well balanced sound for the wide variety of genres I listen to, I love the eb200.  They also take bass EQ really well to really give it some punchiness.  With EQ on, I got it down to about 26hz for a usable tone...pretty good for a balanced do it all bud at a good price.  They even displaced my hd 580s for a while, because I was enjoying the great sound from a small earbud.  I like them over diy pk2 or tp16.  They're great along with some vidos!


How is the bass un eq'd.  I liste to pop and rock.  I love the EMX500 and like their bass, but would like just a tad more mid punch.


----------



## upsguys88

chaiyuta said:


> @upsguys88



Yes I wanted to know if I can get one like those but balanced 2.5 to balanced 3.5


----------



## ctaxxxx

upsguys88 said:


> Yes I wanted to know if I can get one like those but balanced 2.5 to balanced 3.5



How about this? - LINK

A bit expensive though...


----------



## slappypete

Dark Helmet said:


> How is the bass un eq'd.  I liste to pop and rock.  I love the EMX500 and like their bass, but would like just a tad more mid punch.



I posted a subjective comparison between the EB200 and Vido  the other day that you might find interesting. Here is a link to it.  I haven't got my hands on the EMX500 yet so can't help you there, but I thought I read people saying the bass was similar to the Vido. Here is a frequency response comparison between the Vido and EB200.


----------



## WayTooCrazy (Jun 19, 2017)

upsguys88 said:


> Could you make one for me? one without a cable?



Due to the limited space inside the body of the connector, they aren't easy to make. I also wouldn't suggest this for mobile use unless you get one with cable in-between. That would be easier on your 3.5mm jack if your cable gets yanked. I built this one which is 2.5mm Bal to 3.5mm SE. I covered it (because they were used parts and scratched). I have since tossed it because of the possibility of ruining a jack.

The second one I built is the 2.5mm Bal to 3.5mm SE (can be Bal as well), but wire in-between.


----------



## chaiyuta

upsguys88 said:


> Yes I wanted to know if I can get one like those but balanced 2.5 to balanced 3.5


Sorry guy, I don't know as well if it has to be L-shape adapter. But Fidue do in the form of short cable. You might search further whether it has been sold on any other of your local web store or not.


----------



## audio123

https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/bs1-experience-ver-earbud.22473/reviews



enjoy guys!


----------



## ctaxxxx

ClieOS said:


> The cheap one @upsguys88 linked works like such: 2.5mm TRRS (Left / Right / Ground / Mic) to 3.5mm TRRS (Left / Right / Ground / Mic) - _the wiring / pin-out doesn't change from one end to the other. I color coded them to show you the difference._
> 
> A balanced plug convertor however goes like this: 2.5mm TRRS (Right- / Right+ / Left+ / Left-) to 3.5mm TRRS (Left+ / Right+ / Left- / Right-) - _the wiring is completely different between the two end and has to be rewired correctly to avoid short circuiting.
> _
> If the adapter doesn't specifically said it is for balanced use, you have to assume it is not. There is not such a thing as an international standard on how to wiring these sort of things and therefore you can't assume they will all work.



What about a 3.5mm to a dual 3-pin XLR cable? I bought one from VE Clan (came in the mail today actually). It actually has both 2.5mm and 3.5mm on one end (it was the only 2.5mm option on the site). Just wanted to know if the 3.5mm option is safe.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

ctaxxxx said:


> What about a 3.5mm to a dual 3-pin XLR cable? I bought one from VE Clan (came in the mail today actually). It actually has both 2.5mm and 3.5mm on one end (it was the only 2.5mm option on the site). Just wanted to know if the 3.5mm option is safe.


What you bought was an A&K style balanced out cable to dual 3 pin XLR. The 2.5mm 4 pin has the (L-,L+,R-,R+) connectors for pins 2 & 3 on the XLR. The 3.5mm has shared GND pins to the XLR's Pin 1. 

This is the one I bought when I was looking to upgrade to the Kann or try out the Aune M1S.
 

This is probably what you wanted... if you wanted 3.5mm TRS to dual 3 pin XLR.


----------



## silverfishla

chaiyuta said:


> Sorry guy, I don't know as well if it has to be L-shape adapter. But Fidue do in the form of short cable. You might search further whether it has been sold on any other of your local web store or not.


I have that Fidue cable, it came with the balanced MMCX cable that they sell.  It is by far the best one that I've used.  Tight fit and clicks in place.  I bought a plug type and the 2.5mm side was loose.  I bought the ones (basic) from Veclan (Venture Electronics), also loose.  The new one (if you order like above) has a different black 2.5mm jack that is good and tight.  I had them make a 2.5mm TRRS female to RSA jack and it was solid.


----------



## Luan Dee

audio123 said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/bs1-experience-ver-earbud.22473/reviews
> 
> enjoy guys!



Awesome! Reminds of Vido reviews I've read. Would you say it's a more matured Vido in terms of sound signature and quality?


----------



## ctaxxxx (Jun 19, 2017)

WayTooCrazy said:


> What you bought was an A&K style balanced out cable to dual 3 pin XLR. The 2.5mm 4 pin has the (L-,L+,R-,R+) connectors for pins 2 & 3 on the XLR. The 3.5mm has shared GND pins to the XLR's Pin 1.
> 
> This is the one I bought when I was looking to upgrade to the Kann or try out the Aune M1S.
> 
> ...



I actually just wanted 2.5mm only. So are you supposed to use both 2.5mm and 3.5mm connections? I'm confused. I'm using this for the DX200.

*Edit: *Nevermind. Reread your comment. The answer would be yes. Guess that means this is not compatible with AMP2 then. I'll need to order another.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

ctaxxxx said:


> I actually just wanted 2.5mm only. So are you supposed to use both 2.5mm and 3.5mm connections? I'm confused. I'm using this for the DX200.
> 
> *Edit: *Nevermind. Reread your comment. The answer would be yes. Guess that means this is not compatible with AMP2 then. I'll need to order another.



Well, let me understand... you will be using the 2.5mm TRRS out from the DX200 into dual 3 pin XLR to an amp, correct? If that is the case, you should still be able to use this adapter. Just do not plug the 3.5mm into the DX200 as that contains the Shield/GND pin connections (Pin 1 on the XLR if the DX200 doesn't support that). I built a cable similar to this (without the ground pins) when I run Balanced 2.5mm TRRS out from my X5iii into my RA2B and my Jotunheim amp. It worked. The only thing though, if I had my cell phone anywhere near, I'd get a hum since the Ground/Shield pins weren't connected.


----------



## springbay

Trippin said:


> Been looking to get some earbuds at the 100$ mark with a zishan z1 and I've narrowed my choices down to the Rose Masya, k's 500 and Shozy cygnus. Is the extra 20$ for the masya from the cygnus worth it? I'm trying to spend less XP. Any other suggestions around that price?



If I were you, I would spend the extra money on a Burson V5i-D Opamp for the Z1 and pair it with the K's 500. I got two V5i-D in the mail today and so far I've only changed on my Walnut V2, using it in amp mode with an XDuoo X3, but oboy the K'500 sings like never before. Absolutely divine.


----------



## ctaxxxx

WayTooCrazy said:


> Well, let me understand... you will be using the 2.5mm TRRS out from the DX200 into dual 3 pin XLR to an amp, correct? If that is the case, you should still be able to use this adapter. Just do not plug the 3.5mm into the DX200 as that contains the Shield/GND pin connections (Pin 1 on the XLR if the DX200 doesn't support that). I built a cable similar to this (without the ground pins) when I run Balanced 2.5mm TRRS out from my X5iii into my RA2B and my Jotunheim amp. It worked. The only thing though, if I had my cell phone anywhere near, I'd get a hum since the Ground/Shield pins weren't connected.



Okay. I posted in the DX200 thread to ask and make sure. Don't want to short circuit my DAP... But the 2.5mm only should work? I tried to look it up, and the Onkyo also seems to be compatible with this kind of cable. (I hope we're not getting too off topic on this thread)


----------



## WayTooCrazy

ctaxxxx said:


> Okay. I posted in the DX200 thread to ask and make sure. Don't want to short circuit my DAP... But the 2.5mm only should work? I tried to look it up, and the Onkyo also seems to be compatible with this kind of cable. (I hope we're not getting too off topic on this thread)



Yes. Pinout is A&K 4 pole 2.5TRRS compatible.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Patiently waiting for my EB200, Svara L, and Fiio F5 to arrive... then the testing shall begin!


----------



## ctaxxxx

WayTooCrazy said:


> Yes. Pinout is A&K 4 pole 2.5TRRS compatible.



Just tried it. There was A LOT of hissing... I might just stick with a SE cable... Or the 3.5mm only to dual 3-pin you showed me. Don't want to waste money on another cable though...


----------



## WayTooCrazy

ctaxxxx said:


> Just tried it. There was A LOT of hissing... I might just stick with a SE cable... Or the 3.5mm only to dual 3-pin you showed me. Don't want to waste money on another cable though...



Kind of figured you might. I did too, and you were probably picking that up for elsewhere. Do you know how to use a soldering iron? If so... I can show you how to fix it so you don't have to buy anything else.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/238016480011857/


----------



## ClieOS

ctaxxxx said:


> What about a 3.5mm to a dual 3-pin XLR cable? I bought one from VE Clan (came in the mail today actually). It actually has both 2.5mm and 3.5mm on one end (it was the only 2.5mm option on the site). Just wanted to know if the 3.5mm option is safe.



Have not seen this cable before and thus dooesn't know how it is wired internally.


----------



## DBaldock9

WayTooCrazy said:


> Patiently waiting for my EB200, Svara L, and Fiio F5 to arrive... then the testing shall begin!



The Svara L has massive Bass, even more than the TY Hi-Z HP-650.


----------



## audio123

Luan Dee said:


> Awesome! Reminds of Vido reviews I've read. Would you say it's a more matured Vido in terms of sound signature and quality?


I have not tried the Vido but all I can say is the BS1 can compete with top earbuds too. Really good earbud imo.


----------



## golov17

The guy said that his Svara L has a 115 ohm impendence .. Can anyone check yours?


----------



## DBaldock9

golov17 said:


> The guy said that his Svara L has a 115 ohm impendence .. Can anyone check yours?



For my Svara L earbuds - Right = 115.0Ω, Left = 114.5Ω


----------



## upsguys88

Hey all! Looking to do a buy of Heep Philipean edition of monks. Anyone in USA interested as well? Non mic are 13 with shipping and the iOS mic are 21.


----------



## chinmie

I've been avoiding buying this earbuds for a long time after reading it's polarizing impressions and fitting problems. yesterday i made an accidental purchase by winning an auction

but now I'm glad that i did...i really enjoy the sound


----------



## ricesteam

I've always wanted to hear the sounds from Sennheiser MX985, but they're close to impossible to get now.  Are there any buds that have similar sound signature and quality? Why doesn't Sennheiser make more??? Same with the Blox TM7. I want to hear those legendary sounds!


----------



## KookaBurrra (Jun 20, 2017)

@chinmie : great picture ! 


I'm falling in love with my new TY Hi-Z HP-400se... Great earbuds for price ! 



 



The finishes are excellent: the jack is very solid, the cable is just beautiful and the overall look is incredible! Fantastic job done by TY Hi-Z.


----------



## noknok23

Anyone able to compare Mrz Ting with Blur?


----------



## AkashS04

Hi Friends,

My Vido earbuds broken (the one with Mic). Broken in the sense that both speakers are still working but right speaker sound is not fine. I can hear disturbance in sound. Something like when you don't get proper radio signal and hear sound with some disturbances.

I guess PowerAmp might be responsible for this as well as all my previous buds are broken and this one is having issue. I guess a user name @Ira Delphic  something is using PowerAmp. Did he face same issue?

I also tried to see if SHE3800 is still having issue. It works sometime if I hold the cable and don't move at all :| I guess SHE3800 is much better than Vido. The bass is very deep and have lots of Boominess which is not there in Vido. It is much more comfortable than Vido or any other buds I used so far. Now I have an option to go for its Mic version (can anyone pls share link to buy that but cheaper price as without mic is just $3.9 so with mic at $12.99 does not make sense). 2nd option is to go for similar soundstage and boominess bud but with 64 or even more Ohms. So far, nothing happened to Monk+ except mic not working (I am not using it also regularly though).

Last option is to change the cable of current SHE3800 with mic one but I don't know how to do that so cannot do. 

Pls suggest if I should take another chance and buy SHE3800 with Mic or buy something else with Mic which has similar sound like 3800 (little more warmness is good). 

Regards,
Akash


----------



## CharlesRievone

ricesteam said:


> I've always wanted to hear the sounds from Sennheiser MX985, but they're close to impossible to get now.  Are there any buds that have similar sound signature and quality? Why doesn't Sennheiser make more??? Same with the Blox TM7. I want to hear those legendary sounds!



Just had a good deal for a MX985. Bought it used but still very much in good condition:


Spoiler: MX985 + Rose Mojito











I'm still listening to them thoroughly, but so far I still prefer my Rose Mojito than the MX985. I use double foams on my Mojito (thin+thick) and it's sub/bass is unbelievable for earbuds. MX985's amount of bass is nowhere near Mojito's but MX895's is still very tight and refined, no undesirable "leaks" to the mids whatsoever, so I guess that's what ~real audiophiles~ want? 

The vocals on the MX985's though. Man, best vocals I ever listened to. Soundstage is, however, narrower on MX985 compared to Mojito's.

Can't say yet which one has the better treble reproduction between both, still need to listen more.


----------



## chaiyuta

@DBaldock9 : Do you recieve your Blur 魔音 yet?


----------



## DBaldock9

chaiyuta said:


> @DBaldock9 : Do you recieve your Blur 魔音 yet?



No.  When I contacted Wong Kuan Wae, he was just about to leave on a trip.  I'm not sure if he's back, and building earbuds, yet.
Even when he's finished building them, I expect it will take an additional few days, for shipping via Singapore Post Registered Airmail.


----------



## Ira Delphic

AkashS04 said:


> Hi Friends,
> 
> My Vido earbuds broken (the one with Mic). Broken in the sense that both speakers are still working but right speaker sound is not fine. I can hear disturbance in sound. Something like when you don't get proper radio signal and hear sound with some disturbances.
> 
> *I guess PowerAmp might be responsible for this as well* as all my previous buds are broken and this one is having issue...



Your guess is incorrect, It's not Poweramp - the Android app that is responsible. Poweramp is just a music player, similar to any other music player app. I may have asked you this before...do you listen at very high volumes? 
It might be time to step up to a higher quality earbud since nearly every budget pair you have is now messed up?


----------



## Makahl

springbay said:


> If I were you, I would spend the extra money on a Burson V5i-D Opamp for the Z1 and pair it with the K's 500. I got two V5i-D in the mail today and so far I've only changed on my Walnut V2, using it in amp mode with an XDuoo X3, but oboy the K'500 sings like never before. Absolutely divine.



Hey, I think I'll try this combination, but, which one of these versions is the suitable with Z1/Walnut V5i-D the Dual or Single version? Can you please describe briefly the differences over the stock OpAmp? Thanks!


----------



## cocolinho

DBaldock9 said:


> No.  When I contacted Wong Kuan Wae, he was just about to leave on a trip.  I'm not sure if he's back, and building earbuds, yet.
> Even when he's finished building them, I expect it will take an additional few days, for shipping via Singapore Post Registered Airmail.


He is back. I contacted him to order a pair he told me he has 3 backorders to do. 
Next week it will be ok he said


----------



## noknok23 (Jun 20, 2017)

Makahl said:


> Hey, I think I'll try this combination, but, which one of these versions is the suitable with Z1/Walnut V5i-D the Dual or Single version? Can you please describe briefly the differences over the stock OpAmp? Thanks!



Go dual. But some said muses02 fits the zishan z1 better. Improvements are impressive, it's like having a $200 dap. It's a safe investment.
Basically you get much more of everything.
Burson v5i is warm. Muses02 neutralish. Maybe better for zishan z1 because it's good at being neutral. And walnut raw warm sound prefer burson. I use burson in zishan thought and it's insane with the blur.


----------



## slappypete

CharlesRievone said:


> MX985's amount of bass is nowhere near Mojito's but MX895's is still very tight and refined, no undesirable "leaks" to the mids whatsoever, so I guess that's what ~real audiophiles~ want?
> 
> The vocals on the MX985's though. Man, best vocals I ever listened to. Soundstage is, however, narrower on MX985 compared to Mojito's.



How do you find the fit on your MX985's? I ask because I think the fit largely effects the bass response on these, which is the same with all earbuds, but since the housings are so large I could see a lot of people having trouble with them.  I recently got a pair of MX980's and find the bass response to be superb. Measurements I've taken seem to indicate that the MX980 is very capable in the bass department as well, but again since fit is going to effect real world bass performance its hard to compare the bass shown in a FR graph between two earbuds with different housings. I haven't heard the Rose Mojito.



Spoiler: Measurements


----------



## AkashS04

Ira Delphic said:


> Your guess is incorrect, It's not Poweramp - the Android app that is responsible. Poweramp is just a music player, similar to any other music player app. I may have asked you this before...do you listen at very high volumes?
> It might be time to step up to a higher quality earbud since nearly every budget pair you have is now messed up?


Hi Ira,

I don't listen to very high volume. Mostly between 33% to 49% volume level and in some cases 57% volume if it is very noisy or the song is not properly audible at low volume.

However, in some cases, when I listen to some Facebook video or something, then I need to make it full volume and as soon as that stops, the paused PowerAmp song will be played at max volume. But this is done in very few cases and once in a while. But it is done or happen for sure. Is that the reason? 

Also, as you mentioned High Quality buds, I want sound signature something like SHE3800 where there is lots of Bass and Boomy bass actually that I want along with very warm sound and good clarity. Is there any earbud which can fulfill this criteria? And I need Mic version only as I will be using this with my phone. Pls suggest.


----------



## AkashS04

A


Ira Delphic said:


> Your guess is incorrect, It's not Poweramp - the Android app that is responsible. Poweramp is just a music player, similar to any other music player app. I may have asked you this before...do you listen at very high volumes?
> It might be time to step up to a higher quality earbud since nearly every budget pair you have is now messed up?



Also, the comfort level of using SHE3800 is mind blowing. Vido is not near to that. So I want that kind of shell in that high quality earbud as well. But I would prefer not too expensive ones and pls see if something is there around $15-20 or may be within $30 range.


----------



## slappypete

AkashS04 said:


> Hi Ira,
> 
> I don't listen to very high volume. Mostly between 33% to 49% volume level and in some cases 57% volume if it is very noisy or the song is not properly audible at low volume.
> 
> ...




Do you boost bass response with EQ? In terms of stress on the driver, this will be equally bad or worse than listening at really high volume levels. It is the bass frequencies that max out a drivers linear travel, and I suspect earbud drivers have very little linear travel capability. Some earbuds will handle boosting the bass better than others, but it will probably take someone with experience doing this to tell you which handle it best. Your situation where poweramp briefly plays at max volume after leaving a facebook video could be very hard on the drivers if you are using EQ to boost bass.


----------



## AkashS04

slappypete said:


> Do you boost bass response with EQ? In terms of stress on the driver, this will be equally bad or worse than listening at really high volume levels. It is the bass frequencies that max out a drivers linear travel, and I suspect earbud drivers have very little linear travel capability. Some earbuds will handle boosting the bass better than others, but it will probably take someone with experience doing this to tell you which handle it best. Your situation where poweramp briefly plays at max volume after leaving a facebook video could be very hard on the drivers if you are using EQ to boost bass.


Yes. I use the 100% Bass and also use Preset Extreme Bass Eq setting. Do you think using high quality earbud will handle this? So any earbud which meet the criteria I mentioned. Almost similar to SHE3800 sound but as more money is infused, I would see if it can have slight upgrade in all sections like Bass, Boominess, Warmness and also smooth highs.


----------



## slappypete

AkashS04 said:


> Yes. I use the 100% Bass and also use Preset Extreme Bass Eq setting. Do you think using high quality earbud will handle this? So any earbud which meet the criteria I mentioned. Almost similar to SHE3800 sound but as more money is infused, I would see if it can have slight upgrade in all sections like Bass, Boominess, Warmness and also smooth highs.



I don't necessarily believe higher priced earbuds have higher quality drivers in terms of durability. It really wouldn't surprise me if most of the high end drivers cost around the same to manufacture compared to lower end units. I could be completely wrong here though. Even if some high end earbuds have some better technology in their drivers, it doesn't mean all high end earbuds do. So I wouldn't just assume that if you spend money on a more expensive earbud that it will solve your problem. I think your problem is you are pushing your drivers beyond their capabilities. I don't recommend you buy anything more expensive unless you are willing to possibly destroy them. Maybe try to find an earbud you like without using EQ on the bass. Sorry I can't be of more help.


----------



## AkashS04

slappypete said:


> I don't necessarily believe higher priced earbuds have higher quality drivers in terms of durability. It really wouldn't surprise me if most of the high end drivers cost around the same to manufacture compared to lower end units. I could be completely wrong here though. Even if some high end earbuds have some better technology in their drivers, it doesn't mean all high end earbuds do. So I wouldn't just assume that if you spend money on a more expensive earbud that it will solve your problem. I think your problem is you are pushing your drivers beyond their capabilities. I don't recommend you buy anything more expensive unless you are willing to possibly destroy them. Maybe try to find an earbud you like without using EQ on the bass. Sorry I can't be of more help.


You are somehow right. The cost of 100-150-200 Dr. DRE and many other earbuds are hardly $5-7 or may be $10 to the manufacturers. Still, I would also like to see the comments from Experts in this regard.


----------



## Ira Delphic

slappypete said:


> I don't necessarily believe higher priced earbuds have higher quality drivers in terms of durability. It really wouldn't surprise me if most of the high end drivers cost around the same to manufacture compared to lower end units. I could be completely wrong here though. Even if some high end earbuds have some better technology in their drivers, it doesn't mean all high end earbuds do. So I wouldn't just assume that if you spend money on a more expensive earbud that it will solve your problem. I think your problem is you are pushing your drivers beyond their capabilities. I don't recommend you buy anything more expensive unless you are willing to possibly destroy them. Maybe try to find an earbud you like without using EQ on the bass. Sorry I can't be of more help.



I don't know if this is true. I've heard more reports of cheapo earbuds going bad than TOTL earbuds, but there are many more cheap earbuds out there than TOTL. I think cheap ones may not have as good build/mounting of the drivers, so can get lose and rattle. So theoretically could be fixed by taking htem apart.

*AkashS04 -* I use Poweramp and once or twice has similar thing - extremly high volume, but I though it was more of an Android glitch. It hurt my ears, couldn't care less about the earbuds. I was turning sound up and unresponsive - then WHAM - full volume! I hate it when that happens.  But a lot of juice is needed to destroy a decent earbud driver.


----------



## KookaBurrra

AkashS04 said:


> Yes. I use the 100% Bass and also use Preset Extreme Bass Eq setting.



Whaaouuu!?! The sound is not totally muddy with that?


----------



## AkashS04

KookaBurrra said:


> Whaaouuu!?! The sound is not totally muddy with that?



Sometime. But I like the boosted bass and the tone which is added by PowerAmp, I have never heard of that in any Mobile Music Player or any player at all. I wish that kind of tone is available in iPod Nano also.


----------



## slappypete (Jun 20, 2017)

Ira Delphic said:


> I don't know if this is true. I've heard more reports of cheapo earbuds going bad than TOTL earbuds, but there are many more cheap earbuds out there than TOTL. I think cheap ones may not have as good build/mounting of the drivers, so can get lose and rattle. So theoretically could be fixed by taking htem apart.



Yeah it might not be true, just a hunch. Its certainly hard to come to any conclusions based off anecdotal evidence. People may be more careful with their TOTL earbuds as well compared to budget models who knows. I haven't taken apart any TOTL buds yet but I have taken apart quite a few budget buds and the drivers all seemed to be held firmly in place. Anyway, I'm not trying to say that budget drivers are definitely of the same build quality as TOTL drivers... just that we don't really know for sure one way or the other. I suspect the main differences between budget mx500 style buds and TOTL mx500 style buds are frequency response, and driver matching. Thats just my gut feel and I admit I could be completely off-base here.


----------



## AkashS04

Ira Delphic said:


> I don't know if this is true. I've heard more reports of cheapo earbuds going bad than TOTL earbuds, but there are many more cheap earbuds out there than TOTL. I think cheap ones may not have as good build/mounting of the drivers, so can get lose and rattle. So theoretically could be fixed by taking htem apart.
> 
> *AkashS04 -* I use Poweramp and once or twice has similar thing - extremly high volume, but I though it was more of an Android glitch. It hurt my ears, couldn't care less about the earbuds. I was turning sound up and unresponsive - then WHAM - full volume! I hate it when that happens.  But a lot of juice is needed to destroy a decent earbud driver.


Did that extremely high volume spoil or broke down your earbud? Or just only for that moment it stopped working and then it was fine. Any earbud with SHE3800 kind of sound but high impedence and with Mic?


----------



## springbay (Jun 20, 2017)

Makahl said:


> Hey, I think I'll try this combination, but, which one of these versions is the suitable with Z1/Walnut V5i-D the Dual or Single version? Can you please describe briefly the differences over the stock OpAmp? Thanks!



You need the dual version. If you are in Europe you can buy it here
http://www.profusionplc.com/parts/v5i-d
Otherwise it's probably better to buy directly from Burson's own web shop.

The big difference with the K'500 is that a potential I had not heard before was released with the Walnut/V5i-D. The sound stage got so very lush, almost like listening within fluffy clouds where angels gently caresses my earlobes without getting annoying. Instead more like a massage for my tired ears.
If the Blox B320 were TOTL buds with actual sub bass they would sound like this.


----------



## rahmish

upsguys88 said:


> Hey all! Looking to do a buy of Heep Philipean edition of monks. Anyone in USA interested as well? Non mic are 13 with shipping and the iOS mic are 21.


How can I contact a buyer, I want buy one, but I'm in UK


----------



## Dark Helmet

Makahl said:


> Hey, I think I'll try this combination, but, which one of these versions is the suitable with Z1/Walnut V5i-D the Dual or Single version? Can you please describe briefly the differences over the stock OpAmp? Thanks!


Look at the LME49720HA.  It's a 1/4th the price and sounds better in my opinion.


----------



## noknok23

@AkashS04 edimun v3 should satisfy your needs in bass I think! There would be no need to eq. The build is very strong as well. Super high quality plug and cable.


----------



## chinmie

noknok23 said:


> @AkashS04 edimun v3 should satisfy your needs in bass I think! There would be no need to eq. The build is very strong as well. Super high quality plug and cable.



but the Edimun doesn't have mic though


----------



## noknok23

right!! sorry


----------



## CharlesRievone

slappypete said:


> How do you find the fit on your MX985's? I ask because I think the fit largely effects the bass response on these, which is the same with all earbuds, but since the housings are so large I could see a lot of people having trouble with them.  I recently got a pair of MX980's and find the bass response to be superb. Measurements I've taken seem to indicate that the MX980 is very capable in the bass department as well, but again since fit is going to effect real world bass performance its hard to compare the bass shown in a FR graph between two earbuds with different housings. I haven't heard the Rose Mojito.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Measurements


That's a good point. I did find a better fit on the Mojito than on the MX985. I'll try changing foams. 

However, I'm also inclined to believe that fit is just one of the various factors that makes the earbud produce the proper bass response.
Yuin shells, for example, have the best fit on my ears, but none of my Yuin-shelled buds produce good sub-bass compared to, say, Vido or EMX500.
The dual drivers on the Mojito might have also helped with its great resolution of the low end.


----------



## Saoshyant

chinmie said:


> but the Edimun doesn't have mic though



That can be worked around if you need a mic function.  There are always options.


----------



## chinmie

Saoshyant said:


> That can be worked around if you need a mic function.  There are always options.



i mention that point because that is one of the criteria that @AkashS04 looks for in selecting earbuds (the others are bass response and tough build) . i myself don't mind the lack of mic


----------



## audio123

looks interesting
http://penonaudio.com/OURART-Ti7


----------



## cigarello

Would anyone consider the Edimun EV3 ToTL or in the same league as masya?


----------



## Saoshyant

I'd say Edimun is pretty close to Masya, but they have different goals for sound sigs.  Both are quite worth the cost.


----------



## PT7673

Solved the fitting problem of Masya. Now even I go for a run they won't fall off.


----------



## slappypete

CharlesRievone said:


> That's a good point. I did find a better fit on the Mojito than on the MX985. I'll try changing foams.
> 
> However, I'm also inclined to believe that fit is just one of the various factors that makes the earbud produce the proper bass response.
> Yuin shells, for example, have the best fit on my ears, but none of my Yuin-shelled buds produce good sub-bass compared to, say, Vido or EMX500.
> The dual drivers on the Mojito might have also helped with its great resolution of the low end.



Have you heard the Shozy BK? It has a Yuin shell and produces pretty good sub bass both in measurements and in my ears. It doesn't have quite the same extension as a Vido but FR graphs show that as well. I can think of four factors which will effect how bass level is interperated in real life and they are the FR of the driver, the balace of the FR in terms of bass and treble weight, fit, and personal taste... but maybe I'm missing something, If you can think of anything else please let me know. The Mojito may indeed be very competent in the low end. I've never heard them or measured them so I hope I didn't sound like I was trying to challenge you on that. I just wanted to say that the mx980 measures quite well in terms of bass level and extension, and in my ears it doesn't seem to be lacking either, but to each their own.


----------



## AkashS04

noknok23 said:


> @AkashS04 edimun v3 should satisfy your needs in bass I think! There would be no need to eq. The build is very strong as well. Super high quality plug and cable.


Edium V3 is very expensive one. $140 I guess. I cannot afford that expensive one.


----------



## CharlesRievone

slappypete said:


> The Mojito may indeed be very competent in the low end. I've never heard them or measured them so I hope I didn't sound like I was trying to challenge you on that.


No worries, I didn't feel anything untoward from our exchange 
I have not yet tried the BK, but if anything, your statement piqued my interest for the Stardusts even more, as those were actually my first TOTL earbud crush. 

Are you a member of Earbuds Anonymous on facebook? Your graphs are definitely very helpful and I was thinking of sharing them on our group.


----------



## slappypete

CharlesRievone said:


> No worries, I didn't feel anything untoward from our exchange
> I have not yet tried the BK, but if anything, your statement piqued my interest for the Stardusts even more, as those were actually my first TOTL earbud crush.
> 
> Are you a member of Earbuds Anonymous on facebook? Your graphs are definitely very helpful and I was thinking of sharing them on our group.



I am not a member as I don't have facebook. I was thinking of maybe making an account just to join that group haha. Feel free to share my graphs anywhere you like, and that goes for everyone else in here as well.


----------



## noknok23

AkashS04 said:


> Edium V3 is very expensive one. $140 I guess. I cannot afford that expensive one.


$70+$15/25 shipp. I agree price is higher than average. But I feel like you have needs higher than the price range you are looking for.


----------



## slappypete

My Edifier H180 just came in the mail so I took some measurements. It was very interesting to me to see that there is a large difference between the SHE3800 and the H180. The H180 measures like a vido with better treble extension, and a slight bump around 2.5k. Based on measurements alone, the H180 looks to have just as good treble extension as both the Shozy BK and MX980. Bass extension looks good too. I haven't even listened to them yet so I can't give any subjective impressions. In case anyone is curious, my SHE3800 was ordered from FastTech probably around a year ago now, and the branding on the housing is spelled "philips". I can't say if the newer ones with the misspelling measure differently. 


Spoiler: Measurements


----------



## AkashS04

noknok23 said:


> $70+$15/25 shipp. I agree price is higher than average. But I feel like you have needs higher than the price range you are looking for.


Thanks. I know my budget is tight. Actually, it could have been ok had I not spent already over $150 so far


----------



## CharlesRievone

slappypete said:


> My Edifier H180 just came in the mail so I took some measurements. It was very interesting to me to see that there is a large difference between the SHE3800 and the H180. The H180 measures like a vido with better treble extension, and a slight bump around 2.5k. Based on measurements alone, the H180 looks to have just as good treble extension as both the Shozy BK and MX980. Bass extension looks good too. I haven't even listened to them yet so I can't give any subjective impressions. In case anyone is curious, my SHE3800 was ordered from FastTech probably around a year ago now, and the branding on the housing is spelled "philips". I can't say if the newer ones with the misspelling measure differently.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Measurements


Very interesting results indeed.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

PT7673 said:


> Solved the fitting problem of Masya. Now even I go for a run they won't fall off.



Looks like there may be a "hole" in the right earbud.


----------



## chinmie

AkashS04 said:


> Edium V3 is very expensive one. $140 I guess. I cannot afford that expensive one.



it's well worth the price though


----------



## Saoshyant

Will this finally be the time I order the Koss KDE250, or do I keep putting it off as for the cost there are probably better alternatives?  Any real impressions out there to help the decision?


----------



## audio123 (Jun 21, 2017)

chinmie said:


> it's well worth the price though


you should try penon bs1 really good earbud


----------



## rkw

Saoshyant said:


> Will this finally be the time I order the Koss KDE250, or do I keep putting it off as for the cost there are probably better alternatives?  Any real impressions out there to help the decision?


I considered it the last time on Massdrop and researched a bit. There is feedback around if you search, even here on Head-Fi. Also see the discussion on Massdrop and reviews on Amazon. I decided there is a high risk for poor fit and it isn't good enough that I'd use it regularly. Nevertheless, there is something appealing about just owning such an oddball design as a curiosity piece.


----------



## chinmie

audio123 said:


> you should try penon bs1 really good earbud



thank for the suggestion


----------



## B9Scrambler

audio123 said:


> you should try penon bs1 really good earbud



I'll back that. It is quite nice. Well built, comfortable, decent sound, pretty inexpensive. No complaints really. Just a solid bud.


----------



## audio123

here is my review if anyone has not read yet
https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/bs1-experience-ver-earbud.22473/reviews

@chinmie


----------



## kurtextrem

Does the OURART Ti7 sound special from its description or is that just marketing? http://penonaudio.com/OURART-Ti7


----------



## jant71

They are talking out of both sides. Touting 8 core silver foil cable but huge upgrade potential for swapping out the cable. Faithful to human voice yet cold vocals. You can't have both great but yet not near it's potential. Warm yet cold etc., etc. 

Unproven is what it sounds like  We need some real world reports.

Also I'd like to get some sort of vinyl decals and cover the OUR ART(not very pretty).


----------



## cigarello

What about edimun vs raven?


----------



## noknok23

Any earbuds to recommend? I'm looking for something rather bright clear transparent with wide soundstage. Something that is like Blur for the mids, Seahf for the bass, and the high... Campfred?


----------



## ricesteam

noknok23 said:


> Any earbuds to recommend? I'm looking for something rather bright clear transparent with wide soundstage. Something that is like Blur for the mids, Seahf for the bass, and the high... Campfred?



I haven't heard Blur's or Seahf's, but I'm enjoying my Campfred 2s immensely.  I'm using them over my VE Zen 1.0. 

The Zen is warmer but the CF2 is clearer. The soundstage in the Zen is deeper, as in, instruments and vocals sound like they are further from me, but they both have the same width.  Because music sounds "closer" to me with the CF2, I'm hearing things I haven't noticed before. I suppose that's more detail and resolution? 

CF2 are definitely a fun bud. If you have the budget, get one!


----------



## ClieOS

jant71 said:


> Unproven is what it sounds like  We need some real world reports.



Will try to get one next month. Kinda overspent my budget this month 

For the least I think the construction seems pretty nice.


----------



## Saoshyant

jant71 said:


> They are talking out of both sides. Touting 8 core silver foil cable but huge upgrade potential for swapping out the cable. Faithful to human voice yet cold vocals. You can't have both great but yet not near it's potential. Warm yet cold etc., etc.
> 
> Unproven is what it sounds like  We need some real world reports.
> 
> Also I'd like to get some sort of vinyl decals and cover the OUR ART(not very pretty).





ClieOS said:


> Will try to get one next month. Kinda overspent my budget this month
> 
> For the least I think the construction seems pretty nice.



I'll probably order in the next day or two before the price goes up.  Might give me an excuse to order one of VE's nicer MMCX cables.


----------



## ctaxxxx (Jun 21, 2017)

ricesteam said:


> I haven't heard Blur's or Seahf's, but I'm enjoying my Campfred 2s immensely.  I'm using them over my VE Zen 1.0.
> 
> The Zen is warmer but the CF2 is clearer. The soundstage in the Zen is deeper, as in, instruments and vocals sound like they are further from me, but they both have the same width.  Because music sounds "closer" to me with the CF2, I'm hearing things I haven't noticed before. I suppose that's more detail and resolution?
> 
> CF2 are definitely a fun bud. If you have the budget, get one!



I got my CampFred 2 earbuds today. Really can't wait to hear these after burn-in (I usually do a week at most). Very nice build quality and finishing, which was disappointing on the CAX Black housings...


----------



## Mahathera

ClieOS said:


> Will try to get one next month. Kinda overspent my budget this month
> 
> For the least I think the construction seems pretty nice.



I am still patiently waiting to hear more about Liebesleid from you bro


----------



## PT7673 (Jun 21, 2017)

WayTooCrazy said:


> Looks like there may be a "hole" in the right earbud.



It is a bass port and it's on both sides.


----------



## golov17

Mahathera said:


> I am still patiently waiting to hear more about Liebesleid from you bro


+1000


----------



## Robert Turnbull

AkashS04 said:


> A
> 
> 
> Also, the comfort level of using SHE3800 is mind blowing. Vido is not near to that. So I want that kind of shell in that high quality earbud as well. But I would prefer not too expensive ones and pls see if something is there around $15-20 or may be within $30 range.



If you like the she3800.. get the Edifier H180... I find it better than the she3800 in all areas with the same signature... Have you tried recabling the broken buds? How do you keep the buds day to day..? i use little $1 cases to keep mine safe


----------



## golov17 (Jun 22, 2017)

From the maker BGVP SIDY KT100,
Thanks Taufan Mudakir for the info


New OURART Ti7 Earbud Flat Head Earphone HIFI Monitor Earbud Earphone Top Sound Bass Earbud With MMCX Interface Free Shipping
http://s.aliexpress.com/zqmMZ7JR


----------



## AkashS04

Robert Turnbull said:


> If you like the she3800.. get the Edifier H180... I find it better than the she3800 in all areas with the same signature... Have you tried recabling the broken buds? How do you keep the buds day to day..? i use little $1 cases to keep mine safe


Difficult for me to recable. Never done so and instead of spending $50-60 in buying shouldering iron, cables and many other things, I guess it will be easy to just reorder new ones. However, when you recable, you can use cable of your choice and even length.


----------



## endia

golov17 said:


> From the maker BGVP CIDY KT100,
> Thanks Taufan Mudakir for the info
> 
> New OURART Ti7 Earbud Flat Head Earphone HIFI Monitor Earbud Earphone Top Sound Bass Earbud With MMCX Interface Free Shipping
> http://s.aliexpress.com/zqmMZ7JR



much cheaper on penon;

http://penonaudio.com/OURART-Ti7


----------



## vladstef

OURART Ti7 is 45$ - aliexpress, penon audio. They look so nice I almost jumped and bought a pair, but not gonna do it, waiting for reviews. I don't see how these could possibly stay in ears firmly if worn down with different cable, so there is that...


----------



## noknok23

I think the "Our Art" engraving is a bit annoying.. Too bad because i really want to try metal shell earphones.. On a sidenote, i missed the review about the penon bs1 and they do look interesting... Do they stand a chance against higher tiers earbuds? What kind of source is better for them? warm? neutral? thank you.


----------



## one1speed

PT7673 said:


> Solved the fitting problem of Masya. Now even I go for a run they won't fall off.



Would you mind sharing specifically what you used? I am using double foams and still have to wear the wire over my ears for them to stay put.


----------



## Ira Delphic (Jun 22, 2017)

*Turning Green!  *

I took out my Nicehck DIY PK2 today for a spin, and the cable is most defintitely turning green - just like the Shozy Cygnus, which it ....umm.. resembles! Not only do they have the same driver (thanks @golov17 for provding the driver images!!!) , but the cable also oxidizes in a similar way.
The black version of the DIY PK2 which I also own has no such issues, and sound identical to the white version .







Also, the "L" and "R" wore off the shell. It was printed in grey.

Edit - added photo


----------



## chaiyuta

Does anyone can compare between Penon Audio BS1 and NiceHCK EB200?


----------



## noknok23 (Jun 22, 2017)

deleted


----------



## Holypal

golov17 said:


> From the maker BGVP CIDY KT100,
> Thanks Taufan Mudakir for the info
> 
> New OURART Ti7 Earbud Flat Head Earphone HIFI Monitor Earbud Earphone Top Sound Bass Earbud With MMCX Interface Free Shipping
> http://s.aliexpress.com/zqmMZ7JR



Always support original designs.


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> *From the maker BGVP CIDY KT100*,
> Thanks Taufan Mudakir for the info
> 
> New OURART Ti7 Earbud Flat Head Earphone HIFI Monitor Earbud Earphone Top Sound Bass Earbud With MMCX Interface Free Shipping
> http://s.aliexpress.com/zqmMZ7JR



A side note - might be worth noting that OURART isn't technically made by BGVP. BGVP (originally named Sidy, not Cidy) has two founders and they have just recently split apart. OURART is actually a new brand by one of them where the BGVP brand is with the other guys who usually we associated with the brand, as he is the one who runs the business front.


----------



## B9Scrambler

My take on the BS1 for those interested. Though I don't quite have the same experience with ear buds as many of you here, I found them to be quite an enjoyable listen.

https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/bs1-experience-ver-earbud.22473/reviews#review-18774

  ​


----------



## golov17

ClieOS said:


> A side note - might be worth noting that OURART isn't technically made by BGVP. BGVP (originally named Sidy, not Cidy) has two founders and they have just recently split apart. OURART is actually a new brand by one of them where the BGVP brand is with the other guys who usually we associated with the brand, as he is the one who runs the business front.


Oops, corrected, thx


----------



## PT7673

one1speed said:


> Would you mind sharing specifically what you used? I am using double foams and still have to wear the wire over my ears for them to stay put.




I'm using the silicone ear-hook that came with the BT sport earphone that I use for exercise.

It's REMAX BD-300 BT earphone which sound quite good actually.

There are 3 sizes of ear-hook in the package and I'm using the medium size with the REMAX. So I try the small one and it just perfectly fit my ears when put on the Masya.

I'm wearing in the position that the hook will help push the earbud to the ear canal for better seal so I got better bass respond beside the fitting.

Most of the sport earphone come with the ear-hook so if you have one lying around just try them on.


----------



## noknok23

By the way I received the ty hi z 314p since a couple of weeks. Sound is just ok, not particularly impressed and comfort so-so. I expected insane amount of comfort. For me, the yuin shell still win in that matter.


----------



## cigarello

Anyone keen on selling me their campfred or Diomnes lv2? I'll pay $150


----------



## Saoshyant

noknok23 said:


> By the way I received the ty hi z 314p since a couple of weeks. Sound is just ok, not particularly impressed and comfort so-so. I expected insane amount of comfort. For me, the yuin shell still win in that matter.



I think for most the Yuin is an optimal shape.  At least it feels that way.  It's a shame MX500 is the most used.


----------



## golov17 (Jun 23, 2017)

Woow


----------



## robervaul

Wo9w
ranking?


----------



## ctaxxxx (Jun 23, 2017)

golov17 said:


> Woow



A Kizumonogatari earbud?


----------



## golov17

@robervaul , ATH CM700Ti, Mojito. Not have CM7 unfortunately.. IMHO


----------



## one1speed

PT7673 said:


> I'm using the silicone ear-hook that came with the BT sport earphone that I use for exercise...



Thank you!


----------



## ctaxxxx (Jul 23, 2017)

Finished writing up my CAX Black impressions. Did a lot of rewrites, cause I couldn't decide how I felt about them... Been updating my Earbuds Comparison List into a new format as well. Would really like to add more buds on there though.



ctaxxxx said:


> See signature for revised impressions.


----------



## AkashS04

Ira Delphic said:


> *Turning Green!  *
> 
> I took out my Nicehck DIY PK2 today for a spin, and the cable is most defintitely turning green - just like the Shozy Cygnus, which it ....umm.. resembles! Not only do they have the same driver (thanks @golov17 for provding the driver images!!!) , but the cable also oxidizes in a similar way.
> The black version of the DIY PK2 which I also own has no such issues, and sound identical to the white version .
> ...


Hi. Do you keep Bass and Treble 100% in PowerAmp?


----------



## silverfishla

golov17 said:


> Woow


How do these sound?  And in comparison to the PMVthat sort of look like this one?


----------



## rkw (Jun 23, 2017)

golov17 said:


> Woow


Did you get it directly from Japan? Really pricey. Are these different versions, or just different colors?
https://www.amazon.com/nine-wave-NW-STUDIO-Original-Installed/dp/B01N6SZTDY
https://www.amazon.com/ninewave-Inear-earphone-NW-STUDIO-NEO/dp/B01J9FJLMY
https://www.amazon.com/ninewave-Inear-earphone-NW-STUDIO-NEO/dp/B01J9FG2PI


----------



## golov17 (Jun 23, 2017)

Del


----------



## golov17 (Jun 23, 2017)

Http://www.animate-onlineshop.jp/sphone/products/detail.php?product_id=1397593


----------



## golov17

silverfishla said:


> How do these sound?  And in comparison to the PMVthat sort of look like this one?


If you are willing to accept the shy amount of bass, and love high-resolution mids and treble, this is very good, not universal, but, in a way, uniquely sounding earbuds. 34 ohm impendence, easy to drive, love with dark sources


----------



## slappypete

I received my Zen 1 in the mail today. As promised, I opened up the TY Hi-Z HP320M, Seahf 320 Smart 1, and Zen and attempted to turn the TY and Seahf into a Zen 1. The results were fantastic, and I can say that in my opinion these all use the same drivers, and can indeed all be configured to be a Zen 1.

Before I go into detail on how this is done, I want to clear something up. My past measurements showed a significant enough difference in bass response between the HP320M and Smart 1 that I had concluded they must be using different drivers. I believe I made an error with those measurements and I appologize to anyone who may have been mislead. In todays measurements I noticed that one of the HP320M drivers measured quite a bit differently than the other, and while I thought in past measurements I had averaged both L and R measurements, I figure I must have messed up here and only measured one side. I measured many earbuds that day so I can see this being the case.

In todays measurements there was much less of a difference between the TY and Seahf after properly averaging the results. After tinkering around for a while I now believe the tuning foam on the TY was sealing better on one side than the other and resulted in the difference in measurements. I also should mention that about a week ago I made a modification to my coupler on my measurement mic, which allows me to get a more consistent seal for measurements. This change causes my graphs to look slightly different than the original ones I posted. If you were wondering why things seem to have changed, thats why. So please only compare these measurements and anything I posted this week to each other and not to the big first batch of measurements I shared. That first batch is likely still good too, just should only be compared to others within that batch. I don’t plan to make any more changes to the measurement rig so we should be good to go from now on.


Spoiler: TY Hi-Z HP320M vs Seahf Smart 1







Ok so on to the modification. The only difference between the Zen 1 and the others is in how the tuning foam was applied. On the TY and Seahf the foam was applied to the shell. On the Zen the foam is applied to the back of the driver with glue, and one hole is left completely open. Here is a photo showing the difference:


Spoiler: Zen 1 vs Seahf Tuning Foam Comparison








I used a pair of tweezers to remove the original foam from the TY and Seahf and set them aside. The foam doesn’t have much glue on it so I needed to figure out what type of glue to use. My best guess was spray on craft glue, as from experience removing driver foam, it seems very similar to the type used. Here is a photo of the stuff I used:


Spoiler: Glue







To glue the foam I first put the foam down on cardboard, then lightly sprayed the foam, and applied with tweezers to the back of the driver. It turns out spraying the foam directly was a bad idea. When spraying the foam you also spray the sides of the foam. I was working on the Seahf first and on the second driver I closed the shell up pretty soon after gluing the foam on. When I tried to open the shell again, the shell had stuck to the foam well enough that it pulled the driver out of the front plastic cover, and broke the voicecoil wire, thus destroying the driver. 


Spoiler: Destroyed Driver







So the way I would recommed to glue the foam is to first spray your glue on some cardboard, then place your foam on the glue, then lift if up with tweezers and apply to the driver. When you apply the foam to the driver use very light pressure when applying it. The reason I had to open up that second Seahf driver was because I used firm pressure on that piece of foam and it really changed the FR compared to the first. Here is the result of firm pressure gluing the foam:


Spoiler: Botched Mod on Seahf Smart 1







The TY went easy breezy after I figured that out. It might seem daunting to do this after hearing all that but to be honest I don’t think it will be too hard for most people to do and as long as you use light pressure on the foam I think your results will be good. The TY measured perfectly to my liking with one attempt gluing the foam on.

Since I destroyed the Seahf, and the Zen I bought had a pretty badly oxidized cable, I decided to recable my Zen 1 with the pristine cable from the Seahf. The Zen 1 is now in mint stock condition.


Spoiler: Completed Buds








Here is the resulting FR of the modded TY and one side of the modded Seahf:


Spoiler: Final Result Measurements










Here are some measurements comparing the Zen 1 to my other buds:


Spoiler: Zen 1 vs Others












As far as subjective impressions go… I can’t tell the difference between the modded HP320M and the real Zen 1. The drivers also have identical impedance and sensitivity so a direct comparison with both running out of the dual TRS outputs on the Chord Mojo was easy.


----------



## nhlean96

Do you guys have any suggestion for $15 budget ? I'm considering the boarseman mx98, I listen to metal genres (thrash, death, ...), hard rock, .. most of the time. A post in this thread said the mx98 is the best for metal.


----------



## cigarello

nhlean96 said:


> Do you guys have any suggestion for $15 budget ? I'm considering the boarseman mx98, I listen to metal genres (thrash, death, ...), hard rock, .. most of the time. A post in this thread said the mx98 is the best for metal.



I suggest increasing it a couple bucks and getting the RX1, probably the best earbud under $50 imo.


----------



## slappypete

nhlean96 said:


> Do you guys have any suggestion for $15 budget ? I'm considering the boarseman mx98, I listen to metal genres (thrash, death, ...), hard rock, .. most of the time. A post in this thread said the mx98 is the best for metal.



The Vido and Edifier H180 get my vote.


----------



## rkw

cigarello said:


> I suggest increasing it a couple bucks and getting the RX1, probably the best earbud under $50 imo.


Opinions of the RX1 are very polarized.


----------



## Makahl

I'm using more the RX1's wood case as a phone holder to watch videos than the RX1 itself, lol.


----------



## ForceMajeure

slappypete said:


> I received my Zen 1 in the mail today. As promised, I opened up the TY Hi-Z HP320M, Seahf 320 Smart 1, and Zen and attempted to turn the TY and Seahf into a Zen 1. The results were fantastic, and I can say that in my opinion these all use the same drivers, and can indeed all be configured to be a Zen 1.
> 
> Before I go into detail on how this is done, I want to clear something up. My past measurements showed a significant enough difference in bass response between the HP320M and Smart 1 that I had concluded they must be using different drivers. I believe I made an error with those measurements and I appologize to anyone who may have been mislead. In todays measurements I noticed that one of the HP320M drivers measured quite a bit differently than the other, and while I thought in past measurements I had averaged both L and R measurements, I figure I must have messed up here and only measured one side. I measured many earbuds that day so I can see this being the case.
> 
> ...


Good job!

So what's the story here? Wasn't there a rumor about the guy behind TY being the same guy that made the OG ZEN/monk?


----------



## Dark Helmet

nhlean96 said:


> Do you guys have any suggestion for $15 budget ? I'm considering the boarseman mx98, I listen to metal genres (thrash, death, ...), hard rock, .. most of the time. A post in this thread said the mx98 is the best for metal.


EMX500.


----------



## golov17

Note


----------



## golov17

@ClieOS , 
How there are your impressions with the flagship of Moondrop? Please..


----------



## ricesteam

slappypete said:


> I received my Zen 1 in the mail today. As promised, I opened up the TY Hi-Z HP320M, Seahf 320 Smart 1, and Zen and attempted to turn the TY and Seahf into a Zen 1. The results were fantastic, and I can say that in my opinion these all use the same drivers, and can indeed all be configured to be a Zen 1.
> 
> Before I go into detail on how this is done, I want to clear something up. My past measurements showed a significant enough difference in bass response between the HP320M and Smart 1 that I had concluded they must be using different drivers. I believe I made an error with those measurements and I appologize to anyone who may have been mislead. In todays measurements I noticed that one of the HP320M drivers measured quite a bit differently than the other, and while I thought in past measurements I had averaged both L and R measurements, I figure I must have messed up here and only measured one side. I measured many earbuds that day so I can see this being the case.
> 
> ...




Nice find and write up! I thought people who missed out on Zen 1 can finally hear the sounds with what seems like a simple mod. But when I tried searching for TY Hi-Z HP320M and Seahf 320 Smart 1, I couldn't find any that was easily obtainable.


----------



## slappypete

ricesteam said:


> Nice find and write up! I thought people who missed out on Zen 1 can finally hear the sounds with what seems like a simple mod. But when I tried searching for TY Hi-Z HP320M and Seahf 320 Smart 1, I couldn't find any that was easily obtainable.



I thought you could still get both of them on TaoBao. I found a link to the HP320M. Unfortunately the price is about the same as what I just paid for a used Zen 1. I paid about $55 USD each for my Seahf Smart 1 and HP320M from TaoBao maybe a year ago. I also found this link on Aliexpress for a 320ohm Seahf that looks like the Smart 1(you need to select the white color) but no guarentees because the listing only mentions the AWK-F320S. The price on that second link is certainly nice if you are getting an original Smart 1.


----------



## tukangketik

slappypete said:


> I thought you could still get both of them on TaoBao. I found a link to the HP320M. Unfortunately the price is about the same as what I just paid for a used Zen 1. I paid about $55 USD each for my Seahf Smart 1 and HP320M from TaoBao maybe a year ago. I also found this link on Aliexpress for a 320ohm Seahf that looks like the Smart 1(you need to select the white color) but no guarentees because the listing only mentions the AWK-F320S. The price on that second link is certainly nice if you are getting an original Smart 1.


The reason they put high price for the item is because they don't sell it anymore. I don't know why they didn't opt to unlist them because it would much easier. I also have asked TY, and they said it already sold out. 

For seahf, Last week I asked Zhao, whether he still have the smart 1, and it took 4 days to get the last remaining from the warehouse. I got 2 piece 150 ohm and 320 ohm. Both are white version. 

OTOH, like Oleg, I am still waiting for the german metal impression.
Some said it has beautiful high frequency, and it seems Moondrop still retain their soundsignature? Not sure if its better compared to Mojito


----------



## slappypete

My CampFred 2 came in a couple days ago. My initial impressions were that they sounded great, and sound signature was right up my alley. 


Spoiler: CampFred 2







Yesterday I got around to measuring them and the results were a surprise to say the least. 


Spoiler: Measurements



 
 
 
 
 
 
 




As you can see, the CF2 measures extremely close to the Vido, especially when looking at only the R channel of both due to more driver variation in Vido. This really came as a surprise. Over the last few days I haven’t listened to the Vido at all. I spent my time with the CF2 and Edifier H180, as they were my two newest editions, otherwise I’d like to think I would have noticed how similar they are. To make things even more interesting, the CF2 drivers have the exact same sensitivity and impedance as Vido drivers. When measuring them, I don’t have to touch the volume at all for those SPL matched FR graphs. I was at the point where I was wondering, is the CF2 actually using the same drivers as the Vido, and essentially a souped-up version? I realize this might ruffle a few feathers in here, and I hope any CF2 owners, as well as Herry himself aren’t offended by what I’m saying. I’m not trying to cause a stir. I am only reporting my findings and my personal opinion, as I would with any other earbud. As always please take everything with a grain of salt.

Out of respect for Herry, I decided to email him before posting this to ask if Vido drivers were used in the CF2. Here is his response:


“It is not a Vido driver. Even-though it might look the same from the graph you are taking, it will not sound the same.

The driver was made specific to base on the input from CF1.

Thanks for the purchase and enjoy.”


I really appreciate that he responded quickly and didn’t seem to be offended. I still find it hard to believe they aren’t the same driver given the similarites mentioned above, but I’ll take his word for it. What matters most to me is how they sound, not if the drivers are identical, and on that note I have to respectfully disagree with Herry when he says they won’t sound the same.

Thanks to the driver sensitivity and impedance being the same, doing a volume matched subjective comparison is easy with the dual TRS outputs on the Chord Mojo.

CF2 vs Vido

They honestly sound so similar to each other that its hard for me to spot a difference and be absolutely sure that the difference is real. Sometimes I feel like the CF2 has slightly more defined bass, and a slightly clearer more detailed sound overall. However, often when I hear these things I’ll then go back to the Vido and find it holds up so well that I have to admit these differences may be imagined. I think the fact that I want the CF2 to sound better (due to spending so much more on it) likely has an influence on what I’m hearing.

I have to be honest though, the differences if any are so small that I can’t possibly justify the difference in cost between the two. Now I’m not saying the CF2 is sub-par, not at all, actually I think the CF2 is great and I totally understand why anyone who buys it might be thrilled with the sound. I myself was and am very happy with how it sounds. I think if anything this just proves to me that how good an earbud is these days has very little to do with cost.


----------



## tukangketik

nhlean96 said:


> Do you guys have any suggestion for $15 budget ? I'm considering the boarseman mx98, I listen to metal genres (thrash, death, ...), hard rock, .. most of the time. A post in this thread said the mx98 is the best for metal.



I would suggest Edifier H185, but boarseman mx98 is also good. Both have thin mids, extended treble and speedy bass. They lean to brighter sound


----------



## ricesteam

slappypete said:


> My CampFred 2 came in a couple days ago. My initial impressions were that they sounded great, and sound signature was right up my alley.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: CampFred 2
> ...



That is surprising. After reading your findings, I went to did a listening comparison between my Vido and CF2. I don't think you're imagining things.  The CF2 is more refined in the bass department with clearer details compared to the warmer and muddier (relative to cf2) mids of the Vidos. It's like Vido is that one roommate, who's funny, outgoing, generally a good-hearted down-to-earth person, but with a bad habit of poor hygiene, always leaving dirty dishes in the sink and tracking mud all over the place.  Where as, CF2 is his older brother, similarly outgoing and hip, but more mature and responsible, has an eye for being clean and neat, who carries a mop to cleanup after his smaller brother's mess.

Of course, I also could be imagining things to justify how much I paid for my CF2 compared to my Vidos.


----------



## Yobster69

Well I wasn't going to post this pic on HF, but seeing as the Vido is showing how good it is, even against the Campfred then I think it needs more love. For its tiny price these little  buds are heroes. True fighters.


----------



## slappypete

ricesteam said:


> Of course, I also could be imagining things to justify how much I paid for my CF2 compared to my Vidos.



Yes this is the problem isn't it  I was thinking the cable on my mic'd Vido, in combination with the poorer driver matching might make a bit of a difference. When it comes to fancy cables, I generally don't beleive they make a difference in sound quality, however the Vido with mic likely uses only three wires below the mic to the plug, so in theory it might have a negative effect on the sound... but I'm still leaning towards any differences are likely in my head. I'd really like to justify the purchase somehow haha.


----------



## noknok23 (Jun 24, 2017)

Omg, that is insane. I have CF1 and I find it being brilliant sounding, the one that gives me goosebumps. And it sounds miles ahead of my budget one (seahf 32, qian39, monk+).. will gives my own insight how it's stack against the vido... I will definitely try now.
Btw, you should burn in at least a week.(100 or 200hrs I don't remember)
I suspect the person that sold me his campfred didn't took the time to do a full burn in to lie his judgement, and didn't heard it's full potential.


----------



## ctaxxxx (Jun 24, 2017)

slappypete said:


> Yes this is the problem isn't it  I was thinking the cable on my mic'd Vido, in combination with the poorer driver matching might make a bit of a difference. When it comes to fancy cables, I generally don't beleive they make a difference in sound quality, however the Vido with mic likely uses only three wires below the mic to the plug, so in theory it might have a negative effect on the sound... *but I'm still leaning towards any differences are likely in my head.* I'd really like to justify the purchase somehow haha.



I'm more curious to know your headphone/earbud history, so I can get a feel of your critical listening skills._ (Your profile and signature is blank. I suggest filling these out with your current set-up. See mine for example.) _

I would imagine the largest differences, despite having the same signature, would be overall resolution and clarity. I've heard a few budget buds (not the Vido though), and they we're lacking quite a bit in those fields. Maybe I'll order one (and some other popular ones here) once I order the Moondrop Liebesleid (still waiting on those impressions!).

On a similar note, I do feel the CAX Black is close signature-wise and on a technical level with the HD800S (that's listened through a tube amp). At least going from memory. They both nail that natural, detailed signature. Wish I kept if for a more direct comparison, but I wanted something more analytical and sold the S version for the HD800... That actually explains why I prefer the Diomnes Lvl 2 over the CAX Black.


----------



## ricesteam (Jun 24, 2017)

slappypete said:


> Yes this is the problem isn't it  I was thinking the cable on my mic'd Vido, in combination with the poorer driver matching might make a bit of a difference. When it comes to fancy cables, I generally don't beleive they make a difference in sound quality, however the Vido with mic likely uses only three wires below the mic to the plug, so in theory it might have a negative effect on the sound... but I'm still leaning towards any differences are likely in my head. I'd really like to justify the purchase somehow haha.



I did some more test and I'm happy to say I'm not imagining things.  It depends on the song and source, but mostly the song.  In short, Vido is muddier in comparison to CF2 due to its excessive bass. The clarity in CF2 is much better.  Vido is like that best-bang-for-buck wine that goes on sale. CF2 is that vintage, rare, and refined wine you pay top dollar for.


----------



## Makahl

slappypete said:


> I have to be honest though, the differences if any are so small that I can’t possibly justify the difference in cost between the two. Now I’m not saying the CF2 is sub-par, not at all, actually I think the CF2 is great and I totally understand why anyone who buys it might be thrilled with the sound. I myself was and am very happy with how it sounds. I think if anything this just proves to me that how good an earbud is these days has very little to do with cost.



Well, I wouldn't be surprised if those small differences nuances are due to an acoustic tuning. Just, like in your modification for turning Seahf, TY Hi Z 320 into a Zen 1. It's kinda hard to measure those differences. Would you mind to replicate these mods with Vido (1, 2) and measure it to check if there's a difference in the data? Since the Vidos are completely naked inside the shell and probably CF2 has some acoustic tricks going on it, certainly, it could explain those differences (of course hypothetically).



ctaxxxx said:


> I'm more curious to know your headphone/earbud history, so I can get a feel of your critical listening skills._ (Your profile and signature is blank. I suggest filling these out with your current set-up. See mine for example.) _
> 
> I would imagine the largest differences, despite having the same signature, would be overall resolution and clarity. I've heard a few budget buds (not the Vido though), and they we're lacking quite a bit in those fields. Maybe I'll order one (and some other popular ones here) once I order the Moondrop Liebesleid (still waiting on those impressions!).
> 
> On a similar note, I do feel the CAX Black is close signature-wise and on a technical level with the HD800S (that's listened through a tube amp). At least going from memory. They both nail that natural, detailed signature. Wish I kept if for a more direct comparison, but I wanted something more analytical and sold the S version for the HD800... *That actually explains why I prefer the Diomnes Lvl 2 over the CAX Black*.



It's all about the tunning and how you can obtain the best of the driver. If I'm not mistaken your Diomnes Lvl 2 uses a Monk original $5 driver but the mods make it so special and unique for you.


----------



## slappypete

Makahl said:


> Well, I wouldn't be surprised if those small differences nuances are due to an acoustic tuning. Just, like in your modification for turning Seahf, TY Hi Z 320 into a Zen 1. It's kinda hard to measure those differences. Would you mind to replicate these mods with Vido (1, 2) and measure it to check if there's a difference in the data? Since the Vidos are completely naked inside the shell and probably CF2 has some acoustic tricks going on it, certainly, it could explain those differences (of course hypothetically).
> 
> 
> 
> It's all about the tunning and how you can obtain the best of the driver. If I'm not mistaken your Diomnes Lvl 2 uses a Monk original $5 driver but the mods make it so special and unique for you.



I agree that tuning will change the sound, however from my experiences I've found that changing the tuning leads to a noticeable change in the FR graph. I'm not saying FR is everything, but in my experience if something measures near identically in terms of FR it usually sounds identical as well. It would be different if you were comparing identical FR from completely different builds, for example different shells. Or for an extreme example, obviously if you compare a closed headphone with the same FR of an open headphone, the listening experience will differ greatly.  I'm just saying they sound very similar in my opinion, but I'm totally fine if others agree to disagree here. 

I would love to open up both the Vido and CF2 to compare, but the CF2 is really glued shut and I'm worried I'll break the driver if I open it. Looking at the housings of the CF2 I can see some left over exess glue all the way around the seal. I do plan on tinkering with Vido mods regardless. I have a few more coming in the mail and planned to wait until then.


----------



## slappypete

ctaxxxx said:


> I'm more curious to know your headphone/earbud history, so I can get a feel of your critical listening skills._ (Your profile and signature is blank. I suggest filling these out with your current set-up. See mine for example.) _
> 
> I would imagine the largest differences, despite having the same signature, would be overall resolution and clarity. I've heard a few budget buds (not the Vido though), and they we're lacking quite a bit in those fields. Maybe I'll order one (and some other popular ones here) once I order the Moondrop Liebesleid (still waiting on those impressions!).



I filled in my profile with my current gear. As far as critical listening skills, well I'd like to think mine are fairly good but who knows. I've been into high end audio for only about 7 years now. Building loudspeakers is another hobby of mine. So I have experience with designing, building, listening, and measuring loudspeakers. I've done lots of experimenting with vintage AKG headphones and the Koss earclips. I've been playing guitar and dabbling with other instruments for 12 years. I won't claim to be a great musician but I can play by ear. Anyway, I don't want people to look at my review and think in a clear cut manner that CF2 = Vido. I'm just reporting what I measured with my admittedly amature setup, and my opinion. I honestly find it hard to hear a difference, but others will undoubtedly disagree and that is totaly cool


----------



## chaiyuta

Where I can get Vido? I checked on well-known aliexpress seller but not found.


----------



## slappypete

chaiyuta said:


> Where I can get Vido? I checked on well-known aliexpress seller but not found.



This is where I ordered mine.


----------



## chaiyuta

@slappypete : Firstly, from the pictures I don't think it is vido because there is no vido logo. But once I checked on customer feedbacks' picuture, It clear that it is Vido. Thanks.


----------



## slappypete

chaiyuta said:


> @slappypete : Firstly, from the pictures I don't think it is vido because there is no vido logo. But once I checked on customer feedbacks' picuture, It clear that it is Vido. Thanks.


Yeah sorry I could have mentioned that. I think sellers can't use the Vido name in their listings on Aliexpress for some reason.


----------



## Danneq

chaiyuta said:


> Where I can get Vido? I checked on well-known aliexpress seller but not found.



I got them from NiceNCK. They are called "New NICEHCK DIY Earbud"

Just received my order of Vido together with DIY PK2, but there were some problems: I ordered 2 pairs but only received 1. Also the left side on the DIY PK2 is completely dead. Hope that can be solved. I have only had good experiences with NiceNCK before.


----------



## Yobster69

Slappypete's link is perfect. And order the one without the microphone. It's a 'J' cable, which is not perfect, but apparently it's better sounding (without recabling) than the mic version. Unless you need a mic of course ()


----------



## Yobster69

Danneq said:


> I got them from NiceNCK. They are called "New NICEHCK DIY Earbud"
> 
> Just received my order of Vido together with DIY PK2, but there were some problems: I ordered 2 pairs but only received 1. Also the left side on the DIY PK2 is completely dead. Hope that can be solved. I have only had good experiences with NiceNCK before.


Bummer! The PK2 is also a decent bud, speak to Jim (well message him) and send a video of sound from one side and not the other. He will respond.


----------



## Fabi

@slappypete
I'd suggest you as well to let CF2 burn-in longer, let's say 100 hours, before further sound impressions.
My CF1 was far from impressive in the first couple of days, then sound has opened for the better.

So far, my own early sound impressions on the one-man handmade creations I bought have always been like a trap lol.

Looking forward to your opinion on CF2 among others to make my own. 

Btw, I appreciate very much information I can get from your measurements. Although, it's only curves


----------



## fairx

slappypete said:


> I received my Zen 1 in the mail today. As promised, I opened up the TY Hi-Z HP320M, Seahf 320 Smart 1, and Zen and attempted to turn the TY and Seahf into a Zen 1. The results were fantastic, and I can say that in my opinion these all use the same drivers, and can indeed all be configured to be a Zen 1.
> 
> Before I go into detail on how this is done, I want to clear something up. My past measurements showed a significant enough difference in bass response between the HP320M and Smart 1 that I had concluded they must be using different drivers. I believe I made an error with those measurements and I appologize to anyone who may have been mislead. In todays measurements I noticed that one of the HP320M drivers measured quite a bit differently than the other, and while I thought in past measurements I had averaged both L and R measurements, I figure I must have messed up here and only measured one side. I measured many earbuds that day so I can see this being the case.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the hard effort mate.. So if i understans it correctly 

1. U mod the Ty using the same original foam from ty itself.? 

2. The foam of ty did not left one port open? How about just cutting part of the foam and left one port open? Is it doable without reapplying foam to the driver itselft? 

3. What part of ty that originally zen 1 do better? I hevent heard any zen 1. Nobody in my area owns one. Is this mod worth the risk? I only have 1 pair of ty 

Again,  thanks.


----------



## slappypete

fairx said:


> Thanks for the hard effort mate.. So if i understans it correctly
> 
> 1. U mod the Ty using the same original foam from ty itself.?
> 
> ...



1. yep i used the original foam
2. I did leave one port open just like on the Zen 1. The foam doesn't need to be cut. By the time it wraps all the way around the magnet, one hole will be left open. 
3. I do prefer the Zen 1 sound over the sound of the stock HP320M. The Zen is warmer overall with better bass and has a completely non fatiguing sound that I find pretty addictive. To me the mod was totally worth it, but like everything else it just comes down to preference.


----------



## springbay

slappypete said:


> 1. yep i used the original foam
> 2. I did leave one port open just like on the Zen 1. The foam doesn't need to be cut. By the time it wraps all the way around the magnet, one hole will be left open.
> 3. I do prefer the Zen 1 sound over the sound of the stock HP320M. The Zen is warmer overall with better bass and has a completely non fatiguing sound that I find pretty addictive. To me the mod was totally worth it, but like everything else it just comes down to preference.



Thank you for all the effort with this project. Just one question, because I'm stupid. 
With one port/hole left open, are you talking about the driver or the vent holes of the shell?
I love the signature of my Smart 1.0 paired with the Walnut V2/Burson V5i-D too much to mod it, but I'm more than willing to try the mod on the TY Hi-Z HP320M.


----------



## slappypete

springbay said:


> Thank you for all the effort with this project. Just one question, because I'm stupid.
> With one port/hole left open, are you talking about the driver or the vent holes of the shell?
> I love the signature of my Smart 1.0 paired with the Walnut V2/Burson V5i-D too much to mod it, but I'm more than willing to try the mod on the TY Hi-Z HP320M.



hey, there are no stupid questions when it comes to modding a rare earbud  I 'm talking about leaving one of the driver vent holes open. The foam is removed from the shell and applied to the back of the driver. There will no longer be any foam applied directly to the shell. In my post there was a photo showing the zen 1 driver and shell config compared to the seahf (same as TY), you can think of this photo as a before and after for the mod. I hope that helps.


----------



## cigarello

rkw said:


> Opinions of the RX1 are very polarized.



Why is that? I've read many reviews on the RX1 and wont lie some do seem biased but for the most part, they really are the impressive. I've yet to hear the Vido though, after reading all these assumptions that they do sound similar to the CF2, I may as well pick one up.


----------



## Dark Helmet

Yobster69 said:


> Bummer! The PK2 is also a decent bud, speak to Jim (well message him) and send a video of sound from one side and not the other. He will respond.


The PK2 might one of the worst buds I own.  To my ears it sounds blah and lacks bass.


----------



## Makahl

slappypete said:


> I agree that tuning will change the sound, however from my experiences I've found that changing the tuning leads to a noticeable change in the FR graph. I'm not saying FR is everything, but in my experience if something measures near identically in terms of FR it usually sounds identical as well. It would be different if you were comparing identical FR from completely different builds, for example different shells. Or for an extreme example, obviously if you compare a closed headphone with the same FR of an open headphone, the listening experience will differ greatly.  I'm just saying they sound very similar in my opinion, but I'm totally fine if others agree to disagree here.
> 
> I would love to open up both the Vido and CF2 to compare, but the CF2 is really glued shut and I'm worried I'll break the driver if I open it. Looking at the housings of the CF2 I can see some left over exess glue all the way around the seal. I do plan on tinkering with Vido mods regardless. I have a few more coming in the mail and planned to wait until then.



Oh perfect, I fully agree with what you say, by the way, I'd be worried to open a bud which worth $100+ as well!



Dark Helmet said:


> The PK2 might one of the worst buds I own.  To my ears it sounds blah and lacks bass.



Sorry, but, are you talking about the Yuin or the DIY ones?


----------



## Dark Helmet

Makahl said:


> Oh perfect, I fully agree with what you say, by the way, I'd be worried to open a bud which worth $100+ as well!
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but, are you talking about the Yuin or the DIY ones?


DIY.  I didn't know that there were two different ones.


----------



## rkw (Jun 25, 2017)

rkw said:


> Opinions of the RX1 are very polarized.





cigarello said:


> Why is that? I've read many reviews on the RX1 and wont lie some do seem biased but for the most part, they really are the impressive.


The RX1 has a very bright sound signature. It appeals to those who like a bright sound (and don't mind lack of bass). For others the RX1 is unbalanced and _too_ bright. The RX1 is the brightest sounding earbud I've owned, by far — nothing else even comes close.

I listen mostly to classical music, and I find the RX1 unsuitable for classical. String instruments sound shrill, harsh and grainy. The lack of bass makes it unable to convey the weight of a symphony orchestra. This isn't what acoustic instruments sound like in live performances.


----------



## fairx (Jun 25, 2017)

slappypete said:


> hey, there are no stupid questions when it comes to modding a rare earbud  I 'm talking about leaving one of the driver vent holes open. The foam is removed from the shell and applied to the back of the driver. There will no longer be any foam applied directly to the shell. In my post there was a photo showing the zen 1 driver and shell config compared to the seahf (same as TY), you can think of this photo as a before and after for the mod. I hope that helps.


I see. Thanks a bunch. So it's really just just matter of glue and no glue foams. That make sense. They might made that decisions based on easier implementation for mass produce. Maybe also necause they want  to differentiate the signature because of different business ventures of the originall zen.

BTW last i read @ClieOS never mention anything about ty 320 / smart in his list made me curious about ty 320. Well i did ordered tye Hp320M. Instead seller  send me black shell hp320 with braided cable. I wonder if I should open and inspect the insides. The seller assures me that the driver is the same only with  more expensive cable.

When i saw the white shell in your pic i inderstand that i own the other vesrion (then model name is confusing)

Oh BTW selamat hari raya / lebaran ti all my brothers who's celebrating eid in Malaysia /Indonesia and the rest of the world.


----------



## fairx

Impatient, I open my ty 320 and look inside. Same driver? I'm not sure myself. But the foam did attached to the shell. I tried using tweezer to pull it out but theres quite strong glue and i don't want to risk ripping it. 

So i did other trick. My understanding is that by gluing the foam to the back of driver it create tighter seal? So i put some shredded cotton swab and put the shell back together. I tried to put as much as same amount on both driver and sandwich them between driver and foam. 



 

The results? First thing I notice is less bass response (which i suspect a bit too much originally but I kinda like it.)  The bass response is now almost less as ty32. 

Second is, slight extended high. Maybe just slight. I need to listen more. 

Third. Something elevated or reduced and live up something else in the upper mids. Not much just a little. 

I tried it with sibilant prone track like from queen or liza hanim album. Nothing drastic change. 

However what intrigued me is that i heard things that usually I get when listening to ty 320 during silent night. But right now I'm listening in low noise (fans and some nature noise) I can't wait till midnight to listen more to it.


----------



## golov17 (Jun 25, 2017)

fairx said:


> My understanding is that by gluing the foam to the back of driver it create tighter seal?


No, man..


----------



## Merlin-PT

The glue can't be applied to all the foam, it will block all air/sound.
We can see in Golov photo, the glue is only applied around the foam, so the air can pass the foam.
It's like the air ports on the back of full size speakers, were we can use different density foams to filter different frequencies.
Here we can also use different density foams/materials, but air/sound needs to pass through the foam/materials, so they can't be covered with glue.


----------



## slappypete

fairx said:


> Impatient, I open my ty 320 and look inside. Same driver? I'm not sure myself. But the foam did attached to the shell. I tried using tweezer to pull it out but theres quite strong glue and i don't want to risk ripping it.
> 
> So i did other trick. My understanding is that by gluing the foam to the back of driver it create tighter seal? So i put some shredded cotton swab and put the shell back together. I tried to put as much as same amount on both driver and sandwich them between driver and foam.



Thanks for sharing the driver photos. They look different than the ones used in Zen 1, HP320M, and Seahf Smart 1. The most telling feature is the white colored blob of glue seen on the back of the driver which covers the voice coil wire. This is black on the Zen 1 and others.

What you did with the cotton will likely have a very different effect on FR than what I did. Every little thing done inside a shell can have a large effect on FR, so you really need to do the mod exactly as I've done if you want the same result, and on different drivers the mod may have significant differences as well. BTW, the foam was glued originally in the TY and Seahf, just glued to the shell, rather than the driver. It needs to be glued to the driver only and one of the drivers vent holes needs to be left open. I took a lot of measurements one day with a monk plus to get an understanding of what driver dampening does. I didn't post the results yet because I felt only using one earbud wasn't enough to come up with definitive rules so to speak of how different foam configurations effect sound. Anyway, I can tell you from that experiment that if you over-stuff a shell with dampening material, you can significantly lower the mid and bass response of the earbud and also create a larger 2k bump. I suspect that is more in line with what you have done to yours, than the Zen 1 mod. Thanks for sharing though!



Merlin-PT said:


> The glue can't be applied to all the foam, it will block all air/sound.
> We can see in Golov photo, the glue is only applied around the foam, so the air can pass the foam.
> It's like the air ports on the back of full size speakers, were we can use different density foams to filter different frequencies.
> Here we can also use different density foams/materials, but air/sound needs to pass through the foam/materials, so they can't be covered with glue.



I disagree that glue is only applied around the foam, but I might be wrong. Or maybe I should just say that it doesn't need to be used only around the foam for the HP320M mod that I did. I applied glue to the entire piece of foam and the measurements came out near identical to a stock Zen 1 driver. I have removed foam dampening material from a few drivers now and in each case the foam seemed to be clearly glued throughout the entire piece. It is possible they somehow avoid going exactly over the air holes, but I doubt it. I think if they did that the glue would only go along the perimeter edges of the foam strip and leave a strip through the middle without glue. This is how it is done with the paper-like dampening material you can get for earbuds. Interestingly enough it doesn't seem to matter if the foam is glued completely. The Monk Plus for example has foam glued to the back of the driver and has no exposed driver vent holes. If I add a second piece of foam on top of the original, there will be a significant change in FR. You wouldn't expect this if glue was applied to the entirety of the foam, yet this is the case.


----------



## Saoshyant

Just got in Svara, and I think I'm in love.  With our resident basshead gone, I might be the closest one around at this point.  Doing my initial listen on Shanling M1 with bassy EQ, I can tell this is something special for fun-seekers.  I know the rebranding of Svara also included a lower ohm, with the original at 100 if memory serves.  I'm a little tempted to grab my Cayin & put it into the chain to see how far the bass can go.  This feels like the logical progression for those that love the EMX500 for it's bass, this includes you Vido fans too.

With the shipment is HCK's EB200 and the Yincrow X6.  I might need a little time before I'm willing to put these down and give the others a try.  Also got the KZ ZS5 in the same shipment, so the earbuds might have to wait just a little longer at that.


----------



## knudsen

Saoshyant said:


> Just got in Svara, and I think I'm in love.  With our resident basshead gone, I might be the closest one around at this point.  Doing my initial listen on Shanling M1 with bassy EQ, I can tell this is something special for fun-seekers.  I know the rebranding of Svara also included a lower ohm, with the original at 100 if memory serves.  I'm a little tempted to grab my Cayin & put it into the chain to see how far the bass can go.  This feels like the logical progression for those that love the EMX500 for it's bass, this includes you Vido fans too.
> 
> With the shipment is HCK's EB200 and the Yincrow X6.  I might need a little time before I'm willing to put these down and give the others a try.  Also got the KZ ZS5 in the same shipment, so the earbuds might have to wait just a little longer at that.


Thanks man, if I may ask could you judge
- do the bass shape resemble Vido or EMX more (everything un-eq'ed)? To my ears EMX has the lowest bass center (more subbass), Vidos center is further up making it sound bloated when compared. But thats just my impressions.
- could you briefly compare to EMX with regards to mids/treble? I think someone has said Svara is rather rolled off, which is not my impression with EMX.

Thanks


----------



## Merlin-PT

@slappypete 
In your case, you leave 1 hole uncovered, so air/sound escapes from there.
This is only an opinion, my understanding is also limited to my observation and tests:
If manufactures wanted a complete seal, they wouldn't use different densities porous materials that partial block the vent holes and then try to seal them with glue, they would use any other non porous material in the first place.
I think it is more expensive to apply glue only around the dampening materials, so maybe some apply glue to the metal grid, that way the foam still works as a vent, because the holes section wont have glue.


----------



## Saoshyant

knudsen said:


> Thanks man, if I may ask could you judge
> - do the bass shape resemble Vido or EMX more (everything un-eq'ed)? To my ears EMX has the lowest bass center (more subbass), Vidos center is further up making it sound bloated when compared. But thats just my impressions.
> - could you briefly compare to EMX with regards to mids/treble? I think someone has said Svara is rather rolled off, which is not my impression with EMX.
> 
> Thanks



I'll try to get to those comparisons soon.  I will say that it feels quite comfortable so far, and while I'm typically not a fan of over ear wearing for earbuds, it works well so far.  My first initial thought on listening was it reminded me of my old HE400, which I sold off and kind of regret doing so.  Currently doing a non-eq listen with Walnut V2S, which is providing really pleasing vocals with the bass not taking so much of the front stage.  I'll also see if the cables I have do well with over ear so I can see if a cable upgrade provides any noticeable changes.


----------



## slappypete

Merlin-PT said:


> @slappypete
> In your case, you leave 1 hole uncovered, so air/sound escapes from there.
> This is only an opinion, my understanding is also limited to my observation and tests:
> If manufactures wanted a complete seal, they wouldn't use different densities porous materials that partial block the vent holes and then try to seal them with glue, they would use any other non porous material in the first place.
> I think it is more expensive to apply glue only around the dampening materials, so maybe some apply glue to the metal grid, that way the foam still works as a vent, because the holes section wont have glue.



In the case of the HP320M mod, yes one hole was left open. I totally get what you are saying. My feeling is that perhaps a thin application of spray glue to the foam like I did, doesn't actually seal off the foam completely. The foam is porus so will soak up the glue to an extent. I will do a test with a monk plus and get back to you later. I will measure a monk plus with its stock foam configuration, then I will remove the foam and apply a new piece of foam with glue sprayed on the entire piece of foam and measure the results.


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jun 25, 2017)

Yes, it makes sense that a very thin spray of glue doesn't completely block the foam.
The idea is to adjust the amount of air we block from the back holes, this allows to tune the sound to some degree.


----------



## fairx

Haha since i never even heard a Zen i can't really say I wanted a zen sound.  perhaps even the driver is different .  But so far I quite like with results of my mod. I may lose some of bass response but somehow gain something in the upper mids. After few  hour listening its apparent that the sound of upper mids now reminds me of qian39. More room for separation. 

I think. I'm going to keep it for a while. Until someday i can get myself another 320ohm or smart to experiment. Or perhaps move along altogether to a new earbud.


----------



## cqtek

Hello.

Do you knowk some earbud more little than MX500 shells with very good bass presence and good vocals, below 20$? Maybe Qian39?

I have a lot of problems with MX500 shells. I have several models, VE Monk Plus, Mrz Tomahawk, Toneking TP16, T-Music v1 (Bass Tuned) and Pioneer SE-CE521-K. The last one has the better fit for me, but not the best. Pioneer has good vocals with little bass presence. I think that my problem with bass frequency is the bad fit of earbuds in my ears.

Now I'm using T-Music v1 (Bass Tuned) with Zishan Z1 (oamp LME49720NA), very well with electronic music, but I can't move beacuse they fall.

Thank you for your support.


----------



## rggz

cqtek said:


> Hello.
> 
> Do you knowk some earbud more little than MX500 shells with very good bass presence and good vocals, below 20$? Maybe Qian39?
> 
> ...



I can't help you with a suggestion, but, I got a fit problem with MX500 shells only on my left ear. I've fixed it using a large earhoox attached with the earbud, the classic method blocks the back vents changing quite a bit the SQ, so using in this way it just solved my problem.



Spoiler


----------



## knudsen

cqtek said:


> Hello.
> 
> Do you knowk some earbud more little than MX500 shells with very good bass presence and good vocals, below 20$? Maybe Qian39?
> 
> ...


You might try the cheapies Philips (Philps) SHE3800 and Sony E808+ (if still available) and see from there. They're good. There's also Edifier H180, Qian 39, Baldoor E100 if its still available. Maybe someone else can supplement


----------



## slappypete

@Merlin-PT I tested a bunch of tuning configurations with the Monk+ and found that re-gluing the foam (applying glue to the entirety of the foam) didn’t make much of a difference in FR measurements.  It is worth mentioning though that there is always one hole open allowing sound to enter the shell. That hole is the one where the voice coil wires go through to the front side of the driver. I have yet to see an earbud driver that doesn’t have this area open. So perhaps it doesn’t matter if the driver holes are sealed completely off. Perhaps the shape, density, and volume of anything put in the shell will have an effect on sound.

So I started by measuring the R channel of a new Monk+. All the measurements for this experiment were done with only the R channel. I then opened the shell, and removed the original foam. Here are before and after photos showing the stock configuration and then foam removed:


Spoiler: Monk+ Stock Tuning Config




 
 




 I then replaced the foam with a piece of original Monk+ foam. The foam on this Monk was destroyed when removing it, but on another Monk I was messing with the other day the foam came off easily and in tact, so I used this foam for the experiment. I glued the foam with the same procedure I described in the Zen 1 mod post. To recap it goes like this: spray a light amount of craft glue on cardboard, rest foam on the glue, then remove foam from cardboard and apply with very light pressure to the back of the driver with tweezers. The measurements come out close enough that I feel this is an acceptable approach to applying new foam to a driver. Here is the measurement result:


Spoiler: Monk+ Stock vs Re-glued Foam







So now lets take a look at what happens if I stuff another layer of foam in the shell, placing it on top of the first, and without glue.


Spoiler: Monk+ Double Tuning Foam



 




As you can see, the midrange is flattened, mids and bass level lowered, and a bump around 1.9kHz is created.

Now lets take a look at the effect of opening up one of the driver holes like in the Zen 1 mod. 


Spoiler: Monk+ One Hole Open (Zen 1 Config)








Not too much of a difference here, a little dip at 1.5kHz and increase in the 2kHz bump. Now if you are wondering why it doesn’t seem to have such a large effect like it did on the HP320M, remember that the foam is applied to the shell of the HP320M in stock configuration, not the driver.

So what happens if we apply foam to the shell of the Monk+ only? Take a look:


Spoiler: Monk+ Foam on Shell Only



 




You can see that you get a flatter response from about 2kHz all the way into the bass. This however doesn’t look like the greatest transition from mids to treble to me. Now let us compare the Monk+ with one hole open (Zen 1 config) to the Monk+ with shell foam (TY Hi-Z config):


Spoiler: Monk+ Zen Config vs TY Hi-Z Config







The difference between them is quite similar to that of the Zen 1 and  HP320M.

Now lets take a look at the effect of using paper-like dampening material instead of foam:


Spoiler: Monk+ Paper-Like Dampening



 





Upper mids become slightly elevated, and the bump at 2.2kHz is significantly lowered.

This had me wondering what would happen if we combined paper dampening on the rear of the driver with foam dampening on the shell, since the paper dampening seemed to lower response around 2kHz. Here are the results:


Spoiler: Monk+ Foam on Shell & Paper on Driver



 






Notice the transition from mids to treble now has a nicer curve compared to shell foam only. This response looks quite nice to me. To take this mod even further I tried adding 0.25g of duct seal to the back of the driver. I wanted to see if adding literally anything inside the shell would make a difference in tuning. So to recap, at this point the Monk+ is using foam on the shell, paper on the back of the driver, and a glob of duct seal on the driver magnet. Here are the results:


Spoiler: Monk+ Foam on Shell & Paper on Driver & Duct Seal on Magnet








Not so nice in my opinion. It seems to have had a similar effect to when I used the double foam. Take a look at double foam vs this arrangement here:


Spoiler: Monk+ Double Foam vs Shell Foam+Paper+Duct Seal







So in the end I learned a lot and I hope you guys found this helpful/interesting as well. I think the configuration using foam on the shell and paper on the back of the driver looks intriguing. From the graphs it looks like it will be brighter, possibly more “neutral”, with less colored mids, and better bass extension. I haven’t listened to it yet myself. I called this configuration the "Final Mod" in the rest of the graphs I will post comparing this mod to other earbuds. I can't fit any more attachments into this post so they will be in a post following this one.


----------



## slappypete (Jun 25, 2017)

Here are the FR graphs comparing the “Final” Monk+ mod to some of my other earbuds:

EDIT: The measurements I posted here aren't as accurate as they should be due to me forgetting to volume match the Monk+ again after modding it and before comparing to the other buds. Please see this post for better measurements and a follow up to the mod.



Spoiler: Monk+ "Final Mod" vs Other Earbuds


----------



## knudsen

A big hurray for slappypete Though as someone recently (almost) said "Its a little more complicated than I had thought"!

Have you considered measuring the ozkan mod (closing ports in shell)? And maybe the edimun thingy (new holes in the shell)? 

Thanks a lot for your comprehensive work


----------



## Dark Helmet

cqtek said:


> Hello.
> 
> Do you knowk some earbud more little than MX500 shells with very good bass presence and good vocals, below 20$? Maybe Qian39?
> 
> ...


You will get more bas and better sound overall by putting the LME49720HA in your Z1.


----------



## Merlin-PT

@slappypete
I wouldn't apply glue to one full side of the foam like that, it will block the the foam in an amount we can't control.
I also think it negates the purpose of using a porous material like foam or paper.

Thanks for all the measurements, you give us a lot of information to process.
I have no experience in tuning, so I look forward to read more from your findings.
When you have more listening time, please let us know how your final tune changed the monk+ sound.


----------



## cqtek

Dark Helmet said:


> You will get more bas and better sound overall by putting the LME49720HA in your Z1.



Shure, I know, thank you. I'm waiting for this oamp to receive, but now is not in stock my local store.



rggz said:


> I can't help you with a suggestion, but, I got a fit problem with MX500 shells only on my left ear. I've fixed it using a large earhoox attached with the earbud, the classic method blocks the back vents changing quite a bit the SQ, so using in this way it just solved my problem.



Thank you for your suggestion, but I've already used it. I have serveral earhooks from monk+ extension pack. They are good to fix earbuds in my ears but not with the sound. They makes some leverage and separates the earbud a little, enough to lose low fequencies...lol.. Very complicated everything...



knudsen said:


> You might try the cheapies Philips (Philps) SHE3800 and Sony E808+ (if still available) and see from there. They're good. There's also Edifier H180, Qian 39, Baldoor E100 if its still available. Maybe someone else can supplement



Thank you so much, I will try to use Qian 39 for now, is available from Aliexpress.


----------



## slappypete

Follow up to Monk+ mod:

So I finished mod on the L channel, took some more measurements, and did some listening as well. I realized I forgot to volume match the modded monk+ after the modding was done, so those graphs I posted comparing the R channel of the mod to other buds won't be very accurate. Here are new measurements made from both L and R channels averaged at proper SPL:


Spoiler: Measurements



 
 
 
 
 
 




So after listening to these I have to admit they don't sound anything like how they measure, in the low end anyway. If I press the buds into my ears there is certainly plenty of deep bass, but under normal listening conditions I would describe these as sounding bass light. The stock Monk+ has more punch in the bass in a volume matched listening session. When I measure buds they have lots of pressure applied to them to get a good seal on the coupler. This explains why they seem to have good bass in measurements, but it seems that having that much dampening material inside the shell negatively effects bass response when less pressure is used, such as in a real world listening test. I personally don't find this mod very appealing in practice, but others who like a lean sound might like it. This experiment was quite the learning experience for me. All kinds of new variables to consider.


----------



## KookaBurrra (Jun 25, 2017)

slappypete said:


> @Merlin-PT
> So in the end I learned a lot and I hope you guys found this helpful/interesting as well. I think the configuration using foam on the shell and paper on the back of the driver looks intriguing. From the graphs it looks like it will be brighter, possibly more “neutral”, with less colored mids, and better bass extension. I haven’t listened to it yet myself. I called this configuration the "Final Mod" in the rest of the graphs I will post comparing this mod to other earbuds. I can't fit any more attachments into this post so they will be in a post following this one.



Great mod !!
The FR seems to be very similar to Vido, no? 

I must try it, thanks for sharing.


----------



## slappypete

KookaBurrra said:


> Great mod !!
> The FR seems to be very similar to Vido, no?
> 
> I must try it, thanks for sharing.



unfortunately no it doesn't. see post one above yours for more info


----------



## KookaBurrra

Yes, sorry, I see it... after! LOL


----------



## slappypete

knudsen said:


> A big hurray for slappypete Though as someone recently (almost) said "Its a little more complicated than I had thought"!
> 
> Have you considered measuring the ozkan mod (closing ports in shell)? And maybe the edimun thingy (new holes in the shell)?
> 
> Thanks a lot for your comprehensive work



I do plan on measuring the ozkan mod. I have been procrastinating due to not having any blu tac. I would be interested in trying to re-create the edimun mod as well, assuming someone knows exactly what it entails. I do plan on tinkering with mods for both the Vido and H180 since they are my two favorites in my budget bud collection. 



Merlin-PT said:


> @slappypete
> I wouldn't apply glue to one full side of the foam like that, it will block the the foam in an amount we can't control.
> I also think it negates the purpose of using a porous material like foam or paper.



I think we will have to respectfully agree to disagree here. I feel the process is quite controlled and repeatable. The measurements combined with the fact that I couldn't hear a difference between stock and re-glued foam, prove to me that it is of little consequence. I think the measurements also proved that it did not detract from the functionality of the foam.

Having said all that, I can think of an alternative method to gluing the foam, while still using spray craft clue, which you may find preferable. You would need to have a spare piece of foam to do this, but you could do as follows:

1. spray a decent amount of glue on scrap cardboard
2. place spare piece of foam on glue, then remove with tweezers
3. quickly place foam on rear of driver covering all holes.
4. give foam a decent press all the way around, then quickly remove the foam
5. quickly place new fresh foam on rear of driver with light pressure.

The first piece of foam would basically just allow you to transfer adhesive to the rear of the driver without worrying about glue going down the vent holes. If you work quickly enough there will likely be enough glue transferred to the rear of the driver for the good piece of foam to adhere to.


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jun 25, 2017)

The original monk+ foam had glue covering the full side of the foam or only around the edges ?
How did you glued the paper dampening ?


----------



## slappypete

Merlin-PT said:


> The original monk+ foam had glue covering the full side of the foam or only around the edges ?
> How did you glued the paper dampening ?



As far as I could tell the original monk+ foam had glue on the entire side of the foam, unless they only apply it to the rear of the driver... it is impossible to tell. The paper wasn't glued down. The paper comes with adhesive around the perimeter and is open in a strip down the middle.


----------



## PT7673

Thanks @slappypete  for your sharing.

I believe in budget earbuds performance. 

That why I sold my original Yuin PK2 (10 times more expensive) when I got the Vido.

But I also believe there are gaps between the TOTL earbuds and the budget ones. 

That why I chose the difference design for my TOTL earbuds. I went for 2 DD design.


----------



## ReAcT

I'm looking for a pair of earbuds that have very good imaging and a wide accurate soundstage any recommendations?


----------



## fairx

Made me wonder the shoehorse foam sold in the internet. Is it generic? Is it specific.? Does certain company makes their own? 

Earbud has been around for quite some times. I guess theres a lot of tried and true variable in the industry. Of course industry people will keep trade secrets. 

@slappypete I guess FR is useful in figuring the minus and plus in certain frequency when modding or configuring. The distance and shape of the shell when in ear  must have an ideal FR in the first place. 

Your test result is very informative. Even the miss and flaw can be a good example for rest of us. Keep it up mate! 

Don you intend to keep your FR somewhere so people can have easy access in one place? Post can get buried here in no time.


----------



## knudsen (Jun 26, 2017)

slappypete said:


> I do plan on measuring the ozkan mod. I have been procrastinating due to not having any blu tac. I would be interested in trying to re-create the edimun mod as well, assuming someone knows exactly what it entails. I do plan on tinkering with mods for both the Vido and H180 since they are my two favorites in my budget bud collection.


The creator of Edimun himself has made below recipe. It seems pretty straight forward, but maybe he is hiding that one magic ingredient... It is for V2 and copied from here.

I wonder if small metal pieces will fall into the driver when drilling in it (image 4), and in that case how to get them out again. Maybe with an even stronger magnet  

I was interested in the general effect of less/more holes in the shell, but would surely love to get my own custom Edimun  The only thing that has kept me back from getting the original is the cable



Spoiler


----------



## cqtek

Thanks to your help I bought the Qian39, which will arrive in three weeks.
As they are very cheap, I could pay something more. I have seen the following models:

- Remax RM-305M
- 2017 New NICEHCK DIY PK2 Earbud
- AUGLAMOUR RX-1
- 1MORE EO320

Which do you think has a greater presence of bass and better fit for small ears? 
Vocals for me is important too.

Again, thank you very much for your help in advance.


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jun 26, 2017)

@knudsen
Some drivers (but not all) have a hollow rivet in the center, usually they cover it with glue to control bass, maybe in that driver he is only drilling the glue and will find a hole behind it.

Here you can see a case where the hollow rivet connects to the center diaphragm dome in the other side:
https://electroviees.wordpress.com/2013/09/08/how-earphone-works/


----------



## KookaBurrra

teston said:


> I just received the Yinman 150, OOTB, they are very good. smooth signature, musical with sufficient amount of bass, sweet and lush mids, good sound stage, non fatigue treb.



Me too! And I fully confirm your impressions. I also like it! 
It's really good earbuds for the price, except the cable I hate: too rigid and too microphonic.


----------



## Yobster69

Ladies and gents, I hope I am not overstepping the mark, but would all this discussion about the tuning and modifying of buds not be better suited to the DIY Buds thread? It's relevant here of course but I just feel that it's better to keep all this central to particular threads so it is easier to find. Also, the DIY Buds thread has gone quiet for a while and need some input. 
Ignore me if you wish.....


----------



## golov17

Agreed 
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/


----------



## slappypete

PT7673 said:


> Thanks @slappypete  for your sharing.
> 
> I believe in budget earbuds performance.
> 
> ...



I agree. I don't see it as a rule that all TOTL earbuds have an edge over budget ones though. I feel its better to just compare everything based on sound alone instead of factoring in cost. I will say I like my MX980, Shozy BK, and Zen 1 more than any of my budget buds. I won't be surprised though if one day a budget bud surpasses them. I ordered a pair of the supposed powerbeats dual driver units from Aliexpress for tinkering with.



fairx said:


> @slappypete I guess FR is useful in figuring the minus and plus in certain frequency when modding or configuring. The distance and shape of the shell when in ear  must have an ideal FR in the first place.
> 
> Your test result is very informative. Even the miss and flaw can be a good example for rest of us. Keep it up mate!
> 
> Don you intend to keep your FR somewhere so people can have easy access in one place? Post can get buried here in no time.



I do think measuring the FR is very useful when modding, but yesterdays experiment does go to show how important it is to use your ears as well. I think its probably best to view my FR graphs as having a "no guarantee zone" for anything below 100hz, similar to what golden ears does. This is because in real world listening the shell type, dampening design, and fit will all have an impact on how bass is perceived. As an example, it isn't exactly fair to compare a Shozy BK vs Vido in the bass area since they use different shells, different approaches to dampening the driver, and will have a different real world fit.



Yobster69 said:


> Ladies and gents, I hope I am not overstepping the mark, but would all this discussion about the tuning and modifying of buds not be better suited to the DIY Buds thread? It's relevant here of course but I just feel that it's better to keep all this central to particular threads so it is easier to find. Also, the DIY Buds thread has gone quiet for a while and need some input.
> Ignore me if you wish.....



You are absolutely right, and I apologize for sort of bombarding this thread yesterday with DIY related discussion. Going forward I will post this sort of stuff in the DIY Buds thread. I'm not sure where to post the FR graphs for non DIY buds though. Do you guys want me to keep posting that in here? or should I move that elsewhere as well?


----------



## AkashS04

As I did not like Elecom Earbud which I bought from Ebay, I just asked the seller that I did not like it and not as per my expectations, without even asking if I want to return or what, he simply just deduct $0.99 and return the rest of the amount. I appreciate such seller who has this kind of customer satisfaction standard. The seller is japan-kamikaze02 and this is the product: http://www.ebay.com/itm/BassX-SMARTplus-Black-earbuds-/252954015808

The sound is more like Monk+ I believe.


----------



## Saoshyant

FR graphs are always welcome here.


----------



## AkashS04

cqtek said:


> Thanks to your help I bought the Qian39, which will arrive in three weeks.
> As they are very cheap, I could pay something more. I have seen the following models:
> 
> - Remax RM-305M
> ...


I guess 1MORE EO320 should have great bass but I have not heard of it or any other. But from the past discussions, I think RM-305M and RX-1 do not have Bass at all.


----------



## Saoshyant

cqtek said:


> Thanks to your help I bought the Qian39, which will arrive in three weeks.
> As they are very cheap, I could pay something more. I have seen the following models:
> 
> - Remax RM-305M
> ...



I haven't heard the Remax.

For the other three, assuming the 1More is the newer version as I can't remember if that one's the newer or older, the bass is reasonably pleasant by my standards, which means for most here will be anywhere from a solid amount of bass to too much, and it feels like a smaller housing than the MX500.  It's a fun earbud which does nothing wrong, but due to my collection can at times feel a little dull which honestly is an unfair assessment.  I do like it more than the Qian39, which is a very comfortable earbud with an enjoyable sound.

As for the RX-1 & DIY PK2, if you're seeking bass, there are other routes to go like the EMX500.

@knudsen I still haven't had a chance to compare as I've been really busy with work lately, but will get to it on my days off.


----------



## cqtek

AkashS04 said:


> I guess 1MORE EO320 should have great bass but I have not heard of it or any other. But from the past discussions, I think RM-305M and RX-1 do not have Bass at all.





Saoshyant said:


> I haven't heard the Remax.
> For the other three, assuming the 1More is the newer version as I can't remember if that one's the newer or older, the bass is reasonably pleasant by my standards, which means for most here will be anywhere from a solid amount of bass to too much, and it feels like a smaller housing than the MX500.  It's a fun earbud which does nothing wrong, but due to my collection can at times feel a little dull which honestly is an unfair assessment.  I do like it more than the Qian39, which is a very comfortable earbud with an enjoyable sound.
> As for the RX-1 & DIY PK2, if you're seeking bass, there are other routes to go like the EMX500.



Thanks for the help to both.

1MORE EO320 is the new version, EO303 is the old version. I assume that you are not talking about the new version with dual driver.
I've been reading the thread days ago and I've seen that the earbuds you recommend (EMX500) may be the sound I'm looking for. And although they have the MX500 design, I bought them just to prove it is really what I'm looking for.
For now, I'll wait until the Qian39 and the EMX500 arrive. Then I'll decide if I buy the 1more OE320.

Thank you very much.


----------



## AkashS04

cqtek said:


> Thanks for the help to both.
> 
> 1MORE EO320 is the new version, EO303 is the old version. I assume that you are not talking about the new version with dual driver.
> I've been reading the thread days ago and I've seen that the earbuds you recommend (EMX500) may be the sound I'm looking for. And although they have the MX500 design, I bought them just to prove it is really what I'm looking for.
> ...


I am not sure if new one is with dual driver.  But I don't think this or any earbuds has dual driver. I head about dual or even triple drivers in IEMs.


----------



## KookaBurrra (Jun 26, 2017)

AkashS04 said:


> I am not sure if new one is with dual driver.  *But I don't think this or any earbuds has dual driver.* I head about dual or even triple drivers in IEMs.



*Rose Masya*, for example...



> *Rose Masya New Version Dual Dynamic Driver High Quality Audiophile Flat-Head Earbud   *
> 
> *Description*
> 
> ...




Or "1MORE E1008" : https://uk.1more.com/collections/in-ear-headphones/products/1more-dual-driver-earbud-headphones


----------



## Dark Helmet

cqtek said:


> Thanks for the help to both.
> 
> 1MORE EO320 is the new version, EO303 is the old version. I assume that you are not talking about the new version with dual driver.
> I've been reading the thread days ago and I've seen that the earbuds you recommend (EMX500) may be the sound I'm looking for. And although they have the MX500 design, I bought them just to prove it is really what I'm looking for.
> ...


You will like the EMX500. Very good bass and overall a very nice sound.  I really like mine.


----------



## cqtek

Dark Helmet said:


> You will like the EMX500. Very good bass and overall a very nice sound.  I really like mine.



I can't wait that long, three weeks until they arrive...


----------



## AkashS04

KookaBurrra said:


> *Rose Masya*, for example...
> 
> Or "1MORE E1008" : https://uk.1more.com/collections/in-ear-headphones/products/1more-dual-driver-earbud-headphones



How good they are in terms of Sound? But seems to be very expensive ones. What is the benefit of having dual driver?


----------



## cqtek

There are some review here:

http://theheadphonelist.com/1more-e1008-earbud-review/


----------



## guacko (Jun 26, 2017)

KookaBurrra said:


> Me too! And I fully confirm your impressions. I also like it!
> It's really good earbuds for the price, except the cable I hate: too rigid and too microphonic.


Hi!

I have doubts about this earbuds.
I like very much EMX500 and Vido.
After them PK2 arrived and although my head doesn't vibrate with bass (my first test when an earbud come is to play MY PYT from Wale) I don't know but I love its sound. It's like all sound are more delicate. I'm very bad with descriptions. Bass is there but it sounds different. Not like a vibration but as detailed sound.

Do you think these Yiun are better than PK2.
You already said that they are not very bassy so I discard comparisons to Vido and EMX500.
What do to mean by microphonic cable?
For those who already have it. Any recommendation about color/cable to choose?

Thanks!!


----------



## KookaBurrra

cqtek said:


> There are some review here:
> 
> http://theheadphonelist.com/1more-e1008-earbud-review/



And Rose Masya is in "Top 5" of ClieOS...


----------



## Ira Delphic

AkashS04 said:


> Hi. Do you keep *Bass and Treble 100%* in PowerAmp?



No, never. I mostly go with "Flat" followed by "Bass & Treble" presets. If you keep bass and treble at 100% maybe that could explain the high rate of faiilures you describe?


----------



## springbay

slappypete said:


> You are absolutely right, and I apologize for sort of bombarding this thread yesterday with DIY related discussion. Going forward I will post this sort of stuff in the DIY Buds thread. I'm not sure where to post the FR graphs for non DIY buds though. Do you guys want me to keep posting that in here? or should I move that elsewhere as well?



I think moving the mod comparison FR graphs to the DIY thread is both logical and a good decision. But by all means, keep posting your FR graphs for retail buds here in this thread.
Your posts from the last couple of days have been the most useful ones I've seen in this thread for a very long time. The all too common picture postings without comments in this thread are 9 times out of 10 just noise that don't help anyone making informed decisions on what buds that would be interesting to try out, and are more suited for Instagram or such.
So please keep posting your findings about retail buds here, and I'll follow your DIY findings in the other thread.


----------



## jant71 (Jun 26, 2017)

Got a pair of these in today...











The Philips SHE4205. Gonna be good for those who want a budget price, buds you can sleep on and wear hats and hoods with w/o issue, and those who want a mic version earbud.

Way too early but I like the style and the cinch that detaches(as seen in first pic.) to go around the mic pod. 

Sound is clean and clear with some bass. Quick A/B vs. J-cord Vido with stock thick foams shows less bass but yet not really lacking. Clearer and more airy sounding than the Vido. Yet to try but these should work with foams. Not too bright or any negative to say about the treble out of the box.

I got these in the US for $19.99 from, well, the only seller on ebay for these here in NA atm.






More, if anybody is interested, after I spend time with them


----------



## PT7673

slappypete said:


> Do you guys want me to keep posting that in here? or should I move that elsewhere as well?



Please keep posting it here. I'm not DIY guy but I found FR graph very useful.


----------



## chaiyuta

@jant71 : I read japanese customer feedbacks on Philips SHE4205. Mostly are negative feedbacks eg. Fit issues, Lack of bass and Blurred resolution. Could you try it with K-POP genre songs?


----------



## CharlesRievone

slappypete said:


> I'm not sure where to post the FR graphs for non DIY buds though. Do you guys want me to keep posting that in here? or should I move that elsewhere as well?



Your contributions would also be well received on Earbuds Anonymous.
I know you mentioned that you didn't have a facebook account, and I don't want to force you or anything, but if you would consider joining us there, you'd be very welcome.
I really wanted to post your graphs on our group but I can no longer keep up--you're posts are a gold mine of valuable resource


----------



## AkashS04

Ira Delphic said:


> No, never. I mostly go with "Flat" followed by "Bass & Treble" presets. If you keep bass and treble at 100% maybe that could explain the high rate of faiilures you describe?


Hmm. And what what PreAmp slider. At what level we should keep it?


----------



## AkashS04

Ira Delphic said:


> No, never. I mostly go with "Flat" followed by "Bass & Treble" presets. If you keep bass and treble at 100% maybe that could explain the high rate of faiilures you describe?


Also, if selecting only Bass should be fine?


----------



## slappypete

AkashS04 said:


> Also, if selecting only Bass should be fine?



no bass is what is hard on the drivers, not treble.


----------



## Ira Delphic (Jun 27, 2017)

CharlesRievone said:


> Your contributions would also be well received on Earbuds Anonymous.
> I know you mentioned that you didn't have a facebook account, and I don't want to force you or anything, but if you would consider joining us there, you'd be very welcome.
> I really wanted to post your graphs on our group but I can no longer keep up--you're posts are a gold mine of valuable resource



The problem is some of us don't want to participate in FB,. I'm a lurker there but will never even "like" a post. I tried to get a second FB account but a cell phone is required for activation now and there's too much nonsense required to get around that.
@slappypete  I hope you keep posting the FR graphs here. One of the most useful things on the thread!


----------



## AkashS04

slappypete said:


> no bass is what is hard on the drivers, not treble.


Ok. As mentioned by Ira that my earbuds might be getting spoiled due to putting PowerAmp setting on Extreme Bass Preset and then 100% Bass and Treble. I want to feel the Bass, deep punching Bass rather than hearing. I guess except SHE3800, no other earbuds has that capacity. SHE3800 also does not have very thumping and deep Bass but at some level you can surely feel it.


----------



## chinmie

AkashS04 said:


> Ok. As mentioned by Ira that my earbuds might be getting spoiled due to putting PowerAmp setting on Extreme Bass Preset and then 100% Bass and Treble. I want to feel the Bass, deep punching Bass rather than hearing. I guess except SHE3800, no other earbuds has that capacity. SHE3800 also does not have very thumping and deep Bass but at some level you can surely feel it.



out of the buds that I've tried, only the vido, Ty Hi Z32 (second version), and the Kube to some extent that can "rattle the skull" with the bass. the best way to get that kind of experience without destroying your buds is going with IEM


----------



## Ira Delphic (Jun 27, 2017)

chinmie said:


> out of the buds that I've tried, only the vido, Ty Hi Z32 (second version), and the Kube to some extent that can "rattle the skull" with the bass. the best way to get that kind of experience without destroying your buds is going with IEM



The Yincrow X6 which I have, also has serious bass, and has been compared to the Vido as being similar.

X6, better build quality, regular cable not the "J" type. But Vido wins slightly on sq, according to trusted members here and on earbuds anonymous. Very diificult but I may pass on the Vido for now.
Too bad a local (US) modder couldn't buy a bunch of vidos, test for quality of the drivers/output, kick out defective ones, recable and replace with a better quality plug. I'd be down for that at $10 to $15!

The Yincrow X6 is currently 3x the cost of the Vido.


----------



## chinmie

Ira Delphic said:


> The Yincrow X6 which I have, also has serious bass, and has been compared to the Vido as being similar.
> 
> X6, better build quality, regular cable not the "J" type. But Vido wins slightly on sq, according to trusted members here and on earbuds anonymous. Very diificult but I may pass on the Vido for now.
> Too bad a local (US) modder couldn't buy a bunch of vidos, test for quality of the drivers/output, kick out defective ones, recable and replace with a better quality plug. I'd be down for that at $10 to $15!



aaah, yes..the Yincrow. i haven't tried them...and decided not to purchase them after reading @BloodyPenguin review saying that the vido sounded dead similar to them.

nowadays the one earbuds that intrigued me is the EMX500


----------



## alpha421

Well, my vacuum cleaner loved my Asura 2.0 more than I.  I loved the mids and wide stage.  Its seems good sounding earbuds are popping up all over the place, and an impedance race is going on.  I'm fine with 150 and OK in purchasing another Asura 2.0, but if another model/brand of similar sound signature and tonality is available for cheaper, I'm all ears.


----------



## Dark Helmet

chinmie said:


> aaah, yes..the Yincrow. i haven't tried them...and decided not to purchase them after reading @BloodyPenguin review saying that the vido sounded dead similar to them.
> 
> nowadays the one earbuds that intrigued me is the EMX500


I love the EMX500! Check out the NICEHCK EB200.  It is fantastic also.  I'm listening to them as I compose this.


----------



## AkashS04

chinmie said:


> out of the buds that I've tried, only the vido, Ty Hi Z32 (second version), and the Kube to some extent that can "rattle the skull" with the bass. the best way to get that kind of experience without destroying your buds is going with IEM


TY-Hi Z 32S or Kube? TY 32s is without Mic but let me think. Or Kube is having "Rattle the Skull" kind of Bass an Warmness? Any link to Kube Earbuds?


----------



## slappypete

Follow up to CF2 vs Vido:

In my past post regarding CF2 vs Vido I said:

“Sometimes I feel like the CF2 has slightly more defined bass, and a slightly clearer more detailed sound overall. However, often when I hear these things I’ll then go back to the Vido and find it holds up so well that I have to admit these differences may be imagined.”

After posting this I did a few more A/B comparisons between the two and I kept coming to the same conclusion as before. If there was any difference the CF2 seemed to have a slight edge. Because of this I decided to recable the Vido thinking maybe the cable with mic was having a slight negative effect on the sound. I’m not one to believe that fancy cables make headphones sound better, but I know at least in theory cables with a shared ground from the Y split down to the plug are inferior to cables with independent grounds terminated at the plug. Here are some photos of my recabled Vido:


Spoiler: Recabled Vido




 
 
 
 




I’ve been comparing the recabled Vido to the CF2 for a while now and I no longer hear the CF2 as having more defined bass or to be clearer and more detailed. Now I sometimes think the Vido has tighter bass, and detail/clarity seems to be the same. Maybe there is something to be gained from changing the mic’d cable afterall. Or maybe now I am biased in favor of the Vido since I put some work into recabling it. I admit I do prefer the build of the new Vido to that of the CF2. One thing is clear to me, the Vido is an outstanding value.

The only significant difference in the FR graphs between the CF2 and Vido were in the 7.5kHz to 9kHz area. The Vido showed less energy in this area, but that can mostly be explained by the fact that my L channel on my Vido has about 5db less energy in that area only compared to the R channel. The R channel of the Vido measures near identically to CF2. 5Db is enough difference that it should have an audible effect. Going between CF2 and the Vido it is hard for me to say definitively if I can hear it but sometimes I think I can. The driver variation is interesting though. If you had a vido with two drivers that show less energy at 7.5-9k, and you compared against a vido with two of the treblier drivers, you would likely notice a fairly significant difference in that area, or so I would think anyway. When my other Vido’s come in I plan on assembling a pair with the best matched drivers to see if I can hear a difference.


----------



## AkashS04

chinmie said:


> out of the buds that I've tried, only the vido, Ty Hi Z32 (second version), and the Kube to some extent that can "rattle the skull" with the bass. the best way to get that kind of experience without destroying your buds is going with IEM


Do you mean these earbuds? Cubu: http://www.head-fi.org/t/843190/the-7-cubu-earbud


----------



## AkashS04

slappypete said:


> Follow up to CF2 vs Vido:
> 
> In my past post regarding CF2 vs Vido I said:
> 
> ...


Very nicely recabled. I wish I could do that too but I guess not my cup of tea and very expensive too   I might be able to do but I guess not before at least 3-4 earbuds are completely spoiled.


----------



## DBaldock9

chinmie said:


> out of the buds that I've tried, only the vido, Ty Hi Z32 (second version), and the Kube to some extent that can "rattle the skull" with the bass. the best way to get that kind of experience without destroying your buds is going with IEM



So far, of the 20-ish earbuds that I've got, the Svara L has the most Bass impact, without any added EQ.
They're an odd 115Ω, and not terribly sensitive (compared to some of my other earbuds), but the Bass is quite impressive when driven by a DAP (like the Shanling M2s or Cayin N3).
On AliExpress, the price varies widely, from $52.00 to $139.00.


----------



## FastAndClean

Hi, currently i am looking for earbuds with forward and lush sounding mids under 100 dollars if it's possible, recommendations are welcome.


----------



## slappypete

AkashS04 said:


> Very nicely recabled. I wish I could do that too but I guess not my cup of tea and very expensive too   I might be able to do but I guess not before at least 3-4 earbuds are completely spoiled.



I am sure you would be able to do it if you put your mind to it. The cable actually wasn't very expensive. It cost $10 - $11 to make. Wire, TRS Plug here or here, Splitter (3rd color option... 6x3mm), Strain releif.  My strain relief package hasn't arrived yet so I used shrink tubing instead. Anyway, I don't want to get into DIY talk in this thread but though I'd post those links in case anyone was interested.


----------



## KookaBurrra (Jun 27, 2017)

Good "ready to go" cable for 3,49$ here : https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/New-...e-Headset-Wire-DIY-Headphone/32802441039.html

(same quality that in the *DIY EMX500*)


----------



## DBaldock9

FastAndClean said:


> Hi, currently i am looking for earbuds with forward and lush sounding mids under 100 dollars if it's possible, recommendations are welcome.



VE Asura 2.0 (Single-Ended = $78 / Balanced = $88)
They have really great Midrange & Treble, and fairly good Bass, as well.


----------



## FastAndClean

DBaldock9 said:


> VE Asura 2.0 (Single-Ended = $78 / Balanced = $88)
> They have really great Midrange & Treble, and fairly good Bass, as well.


thank you sir


----------



## DBaldock9 (Jun 27, 2017)

FastAndClean said:


> thank you sir



You're welcome - but be aware that the Asura 2.0 is a 150Ω model, and does benefit from more power than a simple phone output.

*EDIT:*  BTW - When I said fairly good Bass - I meant in quantity.  The quality of the Asura 2.0 Bass is really clear and detailed, with good impact. It's just not as "elevated" as some other earbuds.


----------



## AkashS04

slappypete said:


> I am sure you would be able to do it if you put your mind to it. The cable actually wasn't very expensive. It cost $10 - $11 to make. Wire, TRS Plug here or here, Splitter (3rd color option... 6x3mm), Strain releif.  My strain relief package hasn't arrived yet so I used shrink tubing instead. Anyway, I don't want to get into DIY talk in this thread but though I'd post those links in case anyone was interested.



Thanks. Let me see if I can do that.


----------



## FastAndClean

i am gonna use them at home with dragonfly 1.2 as a source and magni 2 for amping


----------



## ricesteam

slappypete said:


> I am sure you would be able to do it if you put your mind to it. The cable actually wasn't very expensive. It cost $10 - $11 to make. Wire, TRS Plug here or here, Splitter (3rd color option... 6x3mm), Strain releif.  My strain relief package hasn't arrived yet so I used shrink tubing instead. Anyway, I don't want to get into DIY talk in this thread but though I'd post those links in case anyone was interested.



I personally appreciate this kind of post. The search feature is not great and I don't want to go through hundred of pages of thread to find specifics. 

I want to start learning how to recable my vidos, can you PM the tools I'll need to get started? I read that recabling earbuds is harder because everything is so small and you risk wrecking the drivers.


----------



## jant71 (Jun 27, 2017)

chaiyuta said:


> @jant71 : I read japanese customer feedbacks on Philips SHE4205. Mostly are negative feedbacks eg. Fit issues, Lack of bass and Blurred resolution. Could you try it with K-POP genre songs?



Interesting I only looked at Kakaku and Amazon.jp and they get four stars avg. though only 8 total reviews. Much more for me was from Amazon UK, EU and India reviewers and again they average near four stars and 8/10 on the reviews. I had a chance to try the 3205 a while back but chose not to due to the reviews being worse. 3205 has the arms more like the Earpods...





The 4205 is just like any other bud so fit is a big key. They remind me of the Qian 39. Quite small and some double up on foams and I used the Qian with Senn PMX680 rings plus thick foams. The Philips are small and oval so foams or some building up may be needed for bigger ears. I am medium and like them with a pair of foams on. I only see no bass going naked and them being too small. Shame Philips didn't include foams or caps to build up the size. I can see the reports of blurry sound if you get some occlusion as I was able to do using them over the ear and the bass did get blurry on one side. The sound does exit out a port that does turn inward so it needs to go in the canal some and not be up against any skin 

Still, they are oval and omit any arms so you can aim and shove them in there better than normal buds. Even over the ear. No arms to stop deeper insertion or yank them to a bad angle means the fit is or should be more agreeable here. I feel this is the case for me. I can get a good bass amount similar to Qian 39 but less than Vido. Certainly more than RX1. More than PMX680. Will depend on the fit and what you slap on them. Satisfying bass I would place in the just about average amount range.

If the fit is all sorted and w/o issue I feel they work well with any music. They have a nice headphone like sound that is bigger than they make you think they can produce(with foams on). I have been using them out of my Cowon and I use the same EQ setting I use with the Vido.

Tried to avoid NTS and listen to both Vido and SHE4205. I find New Toy Syndrome occurs when you just use and enjoy the new toy to the exclusion of other things and then you go back and see the infatuation with the new toy fade when compared to the tried and true. I really like the Vido and was happy with the smooth treble and better mids but the Philips mids and treble are a step above. Vido seems both narrow and more concentrated/less airy. Vido has more bass but the Philips bass is more headphone like and refined. Haven't stepped away and let myself readjust but twice the 4205 has made the Vido sound inferior. TBH, I have another Flite. the 4605, which is a low profile folding yet just over ear can that works well even under hoodies, and wanted to try the 4205 out just for the curiosity. The 4605 can be honky(could be called blurry) if you don't put your ears inside the pads since they are doing the same super low profile thing and they have room in behind the pads to fit the ears. Supra-aural they sound wrong so they seem to share the "fit it right to sound right" thing.


----------



## Dark Helmet

AkashS04 said:


> TY-Hi Z 32S or Kube? TY 32s is without Mic but let me think. Or Kube is having "Rattle the Skull" kind of Bass an Warmness? Any link to Kube Earbuds?


If you like bass also look at EMX500.


----------



## chinmie

AkashS04 said:


> TY-Hi Z 32S or Kube? TY 32s is without Mic but let me think. Or Kube is having "Rattle the Skull" kind of Bass an Warmness? Any link to Kube Earbuds?





AkashS04 said:


> Do you mean these earbuds? Cubu: http://www.head-fi.org/t/843190/the-7-cubu-earbud



sadly, i think they only sell in Indonesia. yes, it is similar to the Cubu ones in appearance, but i don't know if they are also share the same sound signature. you might be able to purchase from their website http://newkube.co.id/product/0000033/earKube-10.html

 this is mine, but it was recabled and tuned version, not stock ones


----------



## chinmie

DBaldock9 said:


> So far, of the 20-ish earbuds that I've got, the Svara L has the most Bass impact, without any added EQ.
> They're an odd 115Ω, and not terribly sensitive (compared to some of my other earbuds), but the Bass is quite impressive when driven by a DAP (like the Shanling M2s or Cayin N3).
> On AliExpress, the price varies widely, from $52.00 to $139.00.



thank you for the suggestion. the svara also interest me, especially because it looks gorgeous. how is the soundstage on the svara? also does the sounds seems closer to your head (like sitting on the stage with the musicians) or a little distanced (like watching a concert from a few feet in front of the stage) ?


----------



## Saoshyant

chinmie said:


> thank you for the suggestion. the svara also interest me, especially because it looks gorgeous. how is the soundstage on the svara? also does the sounds seems closer to your head (like sitting on the stage with the musicians) or a little distanced (like watching a concert from a few feet in front of the stage) ?



I wonder if anyone has the rebrand to Escape yet.  Different ohm, so I wonder if the sound is different.


----------



## WayTooCrazy (Jun 27, 2017)

I dubbed these Silver Dragon Zen.

Standard Zen w/VE Junkosha Silver Cable


----------



## DBaldock9 (Jun 27, 2017)

chinmie said:


> thank you for the suggestion. the svara also interest me, especially because it looks gorgeous. how is the soundstage on the svara? also does the sounds seems closer to your head (like sitting on the stage with the musicians) or a little distanced (like watching a concert from a few feet in front of the stage) ?



Well, Midrange and Sound Stage aren't the biggest strong points of the Svara L.
Since the Bass level is fairly elevated, the Midrange seems a bit recessed, and the Sound Stage appears _closed-in_.
I'm using two foams on mine - a donut foam under a full foam - so that could be affecting the Sound Stage.

Listening to the *Iona* album _Woven Cord_, where the band is playing a live concert with the All Souls Orchestra - using my Onkyo DP-X1 and a Balanced cable - the perspective is that you're very close to the center of the stage, and the sound spreads out horizontally, but has less front to rear depth.

*EDIT:*  However, since my DP-X1 is rooted, and I've installed Viper4Android, I can enable some audio effects that do open up the Sound Stage.


----------



## chinmie

DBaldock9 said:


> Well, Midrange and Sound Stage aren't the biggest strong points of the Svara L.
> Since the Bass level is fairly elevated, the Midrange seems a bit recessed, and the Sound Stage appears _closed-in_.
> I'm using two foams on mine - a donut foam under a full foam - so that could be affecting the Sound Stage.
> 
> Listening to the *Iona* album _Woven Cord_, where the band is playing a live concert with the All Souls Orchestra - using my Onkyo DP-X1 and a Balanced cable - the perspective is that you're very close to the center of the stage, and the sound spreads out horizontally, but has less front to rear depth.



thank you. based on your descriptions, i don't think that the svara is right for me, as i like a little distance and depth. my ears get tired faster when listening to closed in sounding earphones


----------



## ctaxxxx

WayTooCrazy said:


> I dubbed these Silver Dragon Zen.
> 
> Standard Zen w/VE Junkosha Silver Cable



Did you recable it, or can you request it like that? Did the sound open up with the silver cable?


----------



## ballog (Jun 28, 2017)

FastAndClean said:


> Hi, currently i am looking for earbuds with forward and lush sounding mids under 100 dollars if it's possible, recommendations are welcome.


@FastAndClean  I too was looking for some earbuds with 'forward and lush sounding mids' - for listening to classic albums by Sarah Vaughan, Billie Holliday, 60's small jazz emsemble etc. The best i've found are the Philips SHE3800 ($3.21) - though for some they might lack detail and treble extension but i'm ok with that (doughnut foams do help). They are super comfortable and with non-fatiguing sound. For some time i didn't want to buy into the hype, however i've caved in and now i'm delighted i did. Classic female jazz vocalist sound absolutely gorgeous with the SHE3800 . I'm now the proud owner of 3 pairs plus bought 22 pairs for my nephew. Unfortunately the SHE3800 are currently sold out on Fasttech.


----------



## knudsen

ballog said:


> Unfortunately the SHE3800 are currently sold out on Fasttech.


I wonder why since you only bought 25 pairs


----------



## ballog (Jun 28, 2017)

knudsen said:


> I wonder why since you only bought 25 pairs


@knudsen Sorry mistype - i meant 2 instead of 22 . I wish i did though


----------



## vladstef (Jun 28, 2017)

Just received Vido earbuds. There is this annoying rattling sound on L side when playing bass heavy tracks, but when i push them against my ears, it goes away. So applying pressure on the plastic front fixes it. I suspect it could be that the membrane is not strongly in place and that the plastic shell and driver are not close enough. Has this happened to anyone, maybe not with Vidos but similar earbuds? I'm thinking of opening them up and pressing slightly on the driver. It is not a big issue as they are so cheap, but I would like to save them if I can, not looking forward ordering a new pair and waiting months...

Edit: Fixed it in minutes, that was exactly the problem. Be careful when opening Vidos, everything came flying out with mine: shell, magnet, membrane - everything went their separate ways. I was lucky that the coil didn't disconnect and membrane and magnet remain functional. Just closed everything up and it is fine now, driver was not nicely in place inside shell in the first place.


----------



## WayTooCrazy (Jun 28, 2017)

ctaxxxx said:


> Did you recable it, or can you request it like that? Did the sound open up with the silver cable?



Re-cable, and yes. It opened up the sound. Much less congested and much cleaner. It easily slots  between standard and Black. I prefer this one to standard. It sounds cleaner through-out spectrum (still not as good as black though). I'm quite enjoying them. If they were offered this way with a $40 bump (what I paid for the cable alone), I'd buy it this way.

EDIT: I take my comments against these and Black back. I've not tried them against each other...just going from memory. I'll pit them against each other today and compare.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Listening to CampFred 2 earbuds right now. These are amazing! It's improved in every way. These might beat out Diomnes Lvl 2 in it's spot for first place.


----------



## Saoshyant

How's CF2 bass vs CF?


----------



## AkashS04

Dark Helmet said:


> If you like bass also look at EMX500.


I think that does not have Mic. Or it has mic also?


----------



## slappypete

I decided to try and open my CF2 today. I figured I would take the risk of possibly ruining a driver since it sounds identical to my Vido anyway, and the not know for sure if Vido drivers were in here or not was driving me nuts lol.


Spoiler: CF2 vs Vido Drivers




 
 




I managed to get inside both sides of the CF2 without breaking anything. Any other CF2 owners out there will be happy to know that the *CF2 does not use a Vido driver*. The glue covering the voicecoil is black on the CF2 vs the green on the Vido. The notched hole the voicecoil wires go through is a V shape on the CF2 vs the U shape of the Vido. My digital caliper reads the diameter of the CF2 magnet as 8.7mm vs 8.9mm on the Vido.

I find it facinating that they measure nearly identically, have the exact same impedance and sensitivity, yet are in fact different. I still feel they sound the same or at least so close that I don't think I could tell them apart in an ABX test.

I hope this clears things up for anyone that has been reading my posts about these two buds. I apologize to anyone if they feel my posts led them a stray. That was never my intention. I am just trying to report my findings as honestly as I can. I also apologize to Herry if I have caused him any grief over this.


----------



## ctaxxxx

slappypete said:


> I decided to try and open my CF2 today. I figured I would take the risk of possibly ruining a driver since it sounds identical to my Vido anyway, and the not know for sure if Vido drivers were in here or not was driving me nuts lol.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: CF2 vs Vido Drivers
> ...



What's the link to the Vido bud? I'll order this on my next run.


----------



## slappypete (Jun 28, 2017)

ctaxxxx said:


> What's the link to the Vido bud? I'll order this on my next run.



Here you go.

Edit: Just to let you know, there have been a few reports of possible quality control issues with the Vido, and my pair does have poor driver matching in the treble area. So depending on what you get your experience may differ greatly from mine or others. If you get a good or decent one though I think you will be in for a treat if you like your CF2.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

I like these... EB200...


----------



## Dark Helmet

WayTooCrazy said:


> I like these... EB200...


Just got mine yesterday.  They sound fantastic and are easy to drive.


----------



## FastAndClean

Dark Helmet said:


> Just got mine yesterday.  They sound fantastic and are easy to drive.


how are the mids on them


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Dark Helmet said:


> Just got mine yesterday.  They sound fantastic and are easy to drive.



What are you driving them with? I have to push the volume to about 80+% on my Galaxy S8+. I'm sure my Fiio X5iii wouldn't have a problem with them, but I'm using that to burn in my VE Zen Silver Dragons at the moment.


----------



## Dark Helmet

FastAndClean said:


> how are the mids on them


Slightly recessed, smooth with the right amount of cut. It can get spikey on some recordings, but I only have about 15hrs on it at the moment.


----------



## Dark Helmet

WayTooCrazy said:


> What are you driving them with? I have to push the volume to about 80+% on my Galaxy S8+. I'm sure my Fiio X5iii wouldn't have a problem with them, but I'm using that to burn in my VE Zen Silver Dragons at the moment.


Zishan Z1.


----------



## FastAndClean

they have very interesting wooden model, 500 ohms, i think i will risk and just get 3-4 high impedance models under 20 bucks and see what will happen


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Dark Helmet said:


> Zishan Z1.



I'd like to try one of those, but at the same time... would like to try a VE Runabout Plus.


----------



## FastAndClean

i have mrice bell 100 earbuds and they are bright for me, but now i am very curious about other models because i realized that earbuds have a potential to sound close to full size open back headphones


----------



## knudsen (Jun 28, 2017)

FastAndClean said:


> i have mrice bell 100 earbuds and they are bright for me, but now i am very curious about other models because i realized that earbuds have a potential to sound close to full size open back headphones


Are you putting the Mrice in the ears sideways, so the driver will face forward? That's where the fun is


----------



## FastAndClean

knudsen said:


> Are you putting the Mrice in the ears sideways, so the speaker will face forward? That's where the fun is


i tried that, the sound is bassy and more in your face, i prefer normal placement for more spacious soundstage


----------



## r0mano

I'm really impressed with the Vido and EMX500. Is there any recommendation after these? Or i got the highest bass quality on here?


----------



## Dark Helmet

r0mano said:


> I'm really impressed with the Vido and EMX500. Is there any recommendation after these? Or i got the highest bass quality on here?


EB200 has excellent bass quality in my opinion.  More slam than the EMX500, though the EMX500 has more sub lows.


----------



## robervaul

What?


----------



## siderak (Jun 28, 2017)

slappypete said:


> Here you go.
> 
> Edit: Just to let you know, there have been a few reports of possible quality control issues with the Vido, and my pair does have poor driver matching in the treble area. So depending on what you get your experience may differ greatly from mine or others. If you get a good or decent one though I think you will be in for a treat if you like your CF2.



I've got the CF2's coming in early July  and  after reading your impressions ordered 2 vido's one with and one without microphone.
It will be interesting to compare.
 I did receive the yincrow x6's  which are supposed to compare to the vido. They are impressive for the money but way too much bass for me.
 using the EQ on my cayin n3, I attenuated the lower frequencies to be more balanced and they sound great that way.  They are missing some noticeable clarity and resolution compared to my Blurs though…


----------



## ClieOS

robervaul said:


> What?



So someone decided to finally copy Yuin OK1, no big deal about that. It isn't like Yuin is not the most copied earbuds brand ever.

On a side note, putting a nozzle and eartips on earbuds just turn it into an IEM, and most likely won't sound good one way or the other. I have OK1 and really will not recommend it to anyone - just cost too much for something that doesn't sound good either way.


----------



## Cyperus (Jun 29, 2017)

slappypete said:


> I decided to try and open my CF2 today. I figured I would take the risk of possibly ruining a driver since it sounds identical to my Vido anyway, and the not know for sure if Vido drivers were in here or not was driving me nuts lol.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: CF2 vs Vido Drivers
> ...



To me Freq graphics, impedance and sensitivity are only the specs. Specs is only representing number. And how many of you are buying earbuds because of the specs??? No offence everyone. This is just my 2 cents

The most important thing is how to get the correct and accurate tonal. And I believe until now there is no application nor tools that would be able to do so.

Big speaker maker sometimes were using universal driver but they can accurately represent the correct tonal. That how they make money.


----------



## ReAcT

I'm looking for a pair of earbuds that have very good imaging and a wide accurate soundstage any recommendations?


----------



## Makahl

Does someone know the people behind the Vido brand? I'd like to know if they have plans to release new stuff or if they have another product. Apparently, it looks like an obscure brand.


----------



## vladstef (Jun 29, 2017)

Makahl said:


> Does someone know the people behind the Vido brand? I'd like to know if they have plans to release new stuff or if they have another product. Apparently, it looks like an obscure brand.


Well, officially it is called "NICEHCK DIY Earbud", as far as I can tell, it means that the people who work at that shop decided to create an earbud using of the shell parts and that's why its diy, like, it isn't a real registered product, but something they just put together. I think the same thing is happening with DIY PK2 and EB200, but there are some other shops on ali that have DIY earbuds. At this point, if what I am saying is remotely true, I see no reason not to create a brand and start making "legit" earbuds and not brand them as "diy". These models are awesome value propositions, perhaps they are saving some money this way, who knows...

Edit: See post below, Vido isn't made by NiceHCK.


----------



## ClieOS (Jun 29, 2017)

Actually Vido is not a NiceHCK' creation, though NiceHCK does sell it. Vido (原道）is an small Windows / Android tablet laptop brand in China,  and the earbud we are discussing here is one of the stock earbud that comes with its products. Since it is not an audio brand, I don't think they will have any specific plan on releasing new earbud besides whatever that is shipped with their next product.


----------



## KookaBurrra

ClieOS said:


> and the earbud we are discussing here is one of the stock earbud that comes with its products.



It's excellent that chance is made such a good product!


----------



## slappypete

Cyperus said:


> To me Freq graphics, impedance and sensitivity are only the specs. Specs is only representing number. And how many of you are buying earbuds because of the specs??? No offence everyone. This is just my 2 cents
> 
> The most important thing is how to get the correct and accurate tonal. And I believe until now there is no application nor tools that would be able to do so.
> 
> Big speaker maker sometimes was using universal driver but they can accurately represent the correct tonal. That how they make money.



Impedance and sensitivity are definitely just specs that on their own say nothing about how a headphone will sound. I only brought them up because in the context of the CF2 having the same frequency response of the Vido, it was relevant. The CF2 also sharing the same driver impedance and sensitivity as the Vido driver made it seem all the more likely that the CF2 was using Vido drivers. But as we know now this is not the case.

As for frequency response graphs, I do think they can be very useful in determining correct tonal response, but that is my opinion. They of course aren't telling the whole story. There are many more variables to consider, but I do think they are very useful in determining the overall sound signature of a headphone.

Anyway, I know me questioning if the CF2 drivers were actually Vido's probably caused you some grief so I'm sorry for that. This was a very strange situation for me. I have never seen two different earbuds or headphones measure that closely before, live and learn.


----------



## ricesteam

ClieOS said:


> Actually Vido is not a NiceHCK' creation, though NiceHCK does sell it. Vido (原道）is an small Windows / Android tablet laptop brand in China,  and the earbud we are discussing here is one of the stock earbud that comes with its products. Since it is not an audio brand, I don't think they will have any specific plan on releasing new earbud besides whatever that is shipped with their next product.



I wonder if they even know they created such an incredibly good earbud?


----------



## Saoshyant

While the Vido is great, it's not like it's an amazing product.  I worry people new to here will get the wrong impression and think it's some godly earbud, which it isn't.  The same issue arose with the Monks.  I just don't want it to be over-hyped is all, which can detract from it.


----------



## ricesteam

Saoshyant said:


> While the Vido is great, it's not like it's an amazing product.  I worry people new to here will get the wrong impression and think it's some godly earbud, which it isn't.  The same issue arose with the Monks.  I just don't want it to be over-hyped is all, which can detract from it.



I don't think we're saying it's some godly earbud, at least I'm not. I think all the rave is about the price-performance ratio. For $5-$10 you're getting an amazing value.


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jun 29, 2017)

I also think that Vido is good for less than $5, but many $10-$20 earbuds are much better, so I won't use Vido.
They have a lot of bass energy and it's fun for that, but lacks a lot of detail when compared to others.
It's also a matter of taste, maybe it's very good for ppl that likes bass, but not to my taste, I'll try to mod them.
To my taste, I always find some kind of small defect in the <$5 range, but in the $10-$20 range I can find a lot of models that I like a lot.


----------



## AkashS04

Dark Helmet said:


> EB200 has excellent bass quality in my opinion.  More slam than the EMX500, though the EMX500 has more sub lows.


When you say more sub lows or more sub-bass, does that mean deep, thumping and punching bass (like SHE3800 which is more like kind of skull rattling) and normal more bass means just more bass like Vido


----------



## slappypete

Merlin-PT said:


> I also think that Vido is good for less than $5, but many $10-$20 earbuds are much better, so I won't use Vido.
> They have a lot of bass energy and it's fun for that, but lacks a lot of detail when compared to others.
> It's also a matter of taste, maybe it's very good for ppl that likes bass, but not to my taste, I'll try to mod them.
> To my taste, I always find some kind of small defect in the <$5 range, but in the $10-$20 range I can find a lot of models that I like a lot.



That is fair enough. Out of curiosity which earbuds in the $10 - $20 range do you find have a much higher detail level compared to a Vido? Personally I don't find the Vido to be all that lacking in the detail department given the sound signature. I think a lot of the time these things do come down to preference of sound signature, and I admit I do like the bass in the Vido.


----------



## ctaxxxx

ClieOS said:


> Actually it is indeed liebesleid, means to refer to 'Love's Sorrow', the old musical piece written by Fritz Kreisler.
> 
> Anyway, here it is:
> 
> ...





ClieOS said:


> You means 'liebesleid'? I haven't burnt it in nor have a good listening yet. Will do in a couple of days.





ClieOS said:


> Will post tomorrow, I want to give it enough burn-in, regardless of whether it will benefit or not, just to be 100% sure.



ClieOS, I'm about to blind purchase these myself! You have any impressions yet??? 


Also, is there any other TOTL buds on AliExpress worth trying out?


----------



## rkw

rkw said:


> @ClieOS, any more impressions to share on the Moondrop Liebesleid?





Mahathera said:


> I am still patiently waiting to hear more about Liebesleid from you bro





golov17 said:


> +1000





ctaxxxx said:


> ClieOS, I'm about to blind purchase these myself! You have any impressions yet???


ClieOS, take your time. We're just chillin' here clicking on the refresh button. No pressure at all...


----------



## Narayan23

slappypete said:


> That is fair enough. Out of curiosity which earbuds in the $10 - $20 range do you find have a much higher detail level compared to a Vido? Personally I don't find the Vido to be all that lacking in the detail department given the sound signature. I think a lot of the time these things do come down to preference of sound signature, and I admit I do like the bass in the Vido.



I second the curiosity, always good to read other peoples experiences.


----------



## Merlin-PT (Oct 4, 2018)

slappypete said:


> That is fair enough. Out of curiosity which earbuds in the $10 - $20 range do you find have a much higher detail level compared to a Vido? Personally I don't find the Vido to be all that lacking in the detail department given the sound signature. I think a lot of the time these things do come down to preference of sound signature, and I admit I do like the bass in the Vido.



I listen to jazz, to music with acoustic instruments and voice.
I try to listen to FLACs from high quality recordings.
I also listen to pop/rock/etc., but these recordings have less quality.
When I listen to mp3 or worst quality recordings, I need to use less resolving earbuds.
Sometimes I need to adjust the earbud to the source quality and type of music.
I don't use foams.

I'll put them in 3 groups, to describe my personal preference.

Very good (Earbuds I like most, I'm very happy with the sound of these):
Toneking Tomahawk, HE 150, Seaf 150, K's 300, DIY EMX500, Puresounds PS100 150, NiceHCK EB200, NiceHCK DIY PK2, Toneking TP16.
(Not ordered by preference, preference changes with music type, player, etc.)

Good (Earbuds that I find not so good as the previous, but still like some qualities):
Monk+, Yincrow X6, Faaeal 64, K's 64, Pionner se-ce521-k.

Earbuds that I don't use, because I find first group much better:
TY 32, Vido, Qian 25

This is not after critical listening, it's only my personal taste and preference.


----------



## slappypete

Merlin-PT said:


> I listen to jazz, to music with acoustic instruments and voice.
> I try to listen to FLACs from high quality recordings.
> I also listen to pop/rock/etc., but these recordings have less quality.
> When I listen to mp3 or worst quality recordings, I need to use less resolving earbuds.
> ...



Thanks for sharing! I find it interesting that you don't use foams. I imagine your impressions of any particular earbud will vary greatly from someone else who used foams on the same bud. I personally can't get away with not using foams. My ears get irritated and the fit will be inconsistent for me. Earbuds are such a fickle headphone type though, likely so much variation in sound depending on each persons ears and fit. I listen to a lot of jazz, blues, and acoustic music as well. I am listening to some  Nina Simone in FLAC right now.


----------



## Merlin-PT

I don't use foams because it's too big for my ears.
Yes, foams make a difference in sound, my own impressions change if I use them.
Sometimes I notice that foams are necessary to tame a bright earbud and the sound would be better with them.
Other times I'm glad I don't use them because the music would be a bit more veiled with them.


----------



## golov17

slappypete said:


> That is fair enough. Out of curiosity which earbuds in the $10 - $20 range do you find have a much higher detail level compared to a Vido? Personally I don't find the Vido to be all that lacking in the detail department given the sound signature. I think a lot of the time these things do come down to preference of sound signature, and I admit I do like the bass in the Vido.


Try Fengru - emx500


----------



## slappypete

golov17 said:


> Try Fengru - emx500



Thanks. I have been waiting for them to arrive in the mail for weeks. I hope they actually show up.


----------



## Zelda

another take on the RED earbuds: Colarad C01. the Monk+ got some competition 
https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/colarad-c01.22312/reviews#review-18805


----------



## waynes world (Jun 30, 2017)

slappypete said:


> I received my Zen 1 in the mail today. As promised, I opened up the TY Hi-Z HP320M, Seahf 320 Smart 1, and Zen and attempted to turn the TY and Seahf into a Zen 1. The results were fantastic, and I can say that in my opinion these all use the same drivers, and can indeed all be configured to be a Zen 1.
> 
> Before I go into detail on how this is done, I want to clear something up. My past measurements showed a significant enough difference in bass response between the HP320M and Smart 1 that I had concluded they must be using different drivers. I believe I made an error with those measurements and I appologize to anyone who may have been mislead. In todays measurements I noticed that one of the HP320M drivers measured quite a bit differently than the other, and while I thought in past measurements I had averaged both L and R measurements, I figure I must have messed up here and only measured one side. I measured many earbuds that day so I can see this being the case.
> 
> ...



That my friend, is an epic post! I love the Zen 1, so I am very happy that you have duplicated it.

I also found the "Zen 1 vs Vido" FR graph very interesting. No wonder I also like the Vido so much!


----------



## ClieOS

So here is impression of MoonDrop Liebesleid, but first a big thanks to MoonDrop and NiceHCK for arranging the sample.

The sound signature of Liebesleid is slightly warm and leaning toward neutral with a light-to-almost-airy and detailed presentation, which isn't too far off from their previous flagship, the VX pro, which is just about neutral with very good detail and specious presentation. While Liebesleid isn't as airy and wide sounding as VX pro, it still however has a pretty good soundstage that MoonDrop's earbuds are known for, the layering and size are still head and shoulder above the majority of earbuds out there. The added warmness mostly is shown in the richer and slightly thicker mid range, giving a touch of sweetness to vocal without making it obviously mid focus. This reflects particularly well in female vocal, especially since Liebesleid has an really good upper mid to treble extension that is detail yet doesn't necessary sound very bright. Bass has good hit and speed but doesn't quite have the deepest rumbling to shake your head. If you are bass head, this might be just a shy lacking quality wise. But for the rest, I'll say the bass performance is more than good enough. Overall I'll say Liebesleid is easily another ToTL, champion level earbud that can stand up to that of Shozy BK or Sennheiser MX985. Overall, I think Liebesleid is probably best suited for mainstream music and those who enjoy a quick, detailed and opened presentation. If there is one complaint I'll make about Liebesleid, it is that the earpieces are a bit heavy since they are made out of brass., even though they do sit quite comfortably in my ears. Last but not least, I do recommend using this with full foam as the soundstage can get slightly flat when you listen to it 'naked'.


----------



## Mahathera

ClieOS said:


> Overall I'll say Liebesleid is easily another ToTL, champion level earbud that can stand up to that of Shozy BK or Sennheiser MX985..



Thanks for the impression. Does the sound quality justify the cost?
this bud cost about 80 to 100 dollar more than BK.


----------



## ClieOS

Mahathera said:


> Thanks for the impression. Does the sound quality justify the cost?
> this bud cost about 80 to 100 dollar more than BK.



If you are asking me whether it is $80~100 better sounding than BK, then the answer is 'no'. They are more or less at the same level of SQ.  But if you ask me whether I'll buy it after the fact, then the answer is 'yes'. The SQ and build quality do justify the cost for me.


----------



## chaiyuta

Has Liebesleid better resolution than rose mojito?


----------



## ClieOS

chaiyuta said:


> Has Liebesleid better resolution than rose mojito?



While Liebesleid has pretty good resolution, it isn't a match for Mojito - nothing that I know is. If anything, resolution is Mojito's specialty. Then again, Mojito is much less versatile.


----------



## nhlean96

Can someone compare the HE 150 and EMX500 please ? The 150 ohms driver is an advantage, both have good bass but how about soundstage and detail ?


----------



## CharlesRievone

ClieOS said:


> Then again, Mojito is much less versatile.


@ClieOS Can you elaborate more on this please? Which genres do you think they are strong/weak with?


----------



## ClieOS

CharlesRievone said:


> @ClieOS Can you elaborate more on this please? Which genres do you think they are strong/weak with?


Even Rose Tech. makes it clear that Mojito is tuned for classical music, so that's what it really good at - for extreme detail, soundstage and end-to-end dynamic. Vocal is where it is at its weakest, as mid range is a bit far and bland.


----------



## CharlesRievone

ClieOS said:


> Even Rose Tech. makes it clear that Mojito is tuned for classical music, so that's what it really good at - for extreme detail, soundstage and end-to-end dynamic. Vocal is where it is at its weakest, as mid range is a bit far and bland.


Got it. And i agree, if i had to pinpoint a con for the Mojito it is indeed the mids, but only just because it's bass (with double foams) and treble are very good that the mids' performance are outshined.


----------



## chinmie

I've received new non mic Vido and white mic'ed version to compare to my old blue mic'ed one... this is what i found:
-they all have the same sound signature, but there's a slight difference between mic'ed and non mic
-the non mic Vido have a slight wider stage, and feels like it has more intrument separation, while the mic'ed version has a tad warmer overall feel to their sound. 
-overall eq are the same (mic'ed and non mic), but the non mic version, because of their wider stage, has a lighter and more airy feel to its sound. 
-the vido doesn't need burn in whatsoever. the new white mic'ed one sounds exactly the same to my old blue mic'ed one

does anybody share the same impressions as mine?


----------



## WayTooCrazy (Jun 30, 2017)

<deleted>


----------



## AkashS04

As suspected by @Ira Delphic that using Extreme Bass Preset with Amp Level High and 100% Bass and Treble might be the reason my Earbuds are getting spoiled. However, nothing happened to Monk+ and also with SHE3800 and one more earbud, one of the speakers stopped working (SHE3800 still works if I adjust the jack so I think changing jack plug might work). New Vido is also having some broken membrane sound from right speaker.

As I like Boominess and Warmness I get in songs while using these settings, I am wondering if there is any earbud which has rough and tough speakers membranes but with my desired sound signature (similar or better than SHE3800) and with Mic? Pls suggest if something is available. I sincerely thank the person who suggested me SHE3800 but unfortunately they are no longer working. Pls suggest similar sound earbud but ideally within $20 and I believe having high impedence should be good and might not broken down in PowerAmp with the above settings. Thanks.


----------



## ctaxxxx

ClieOS said:


> So here is impression of MoonDrop Liebesleid, but first a big thanks to MoonDrop and NiceHCK for arranging the sample.
> 
> The sound signature of Liebesleid is slightly warm and leaning toward neutral with a light-to-almost-airy and detailed presentation, which isn't too far off from their previous flagship, the VX pro, which is just about neutral with very good detail and specious presentation. While Liebesleid isn't as airy and wide sounding as VX pro, it still however has a pretty good soundstage that MoonDrop's earbuds are known for, the layering and size are still head and shoulder above the majority of earbuds out there. The added warmness mostly is shown in the richer and slightly thicker mid range, giving a touch of sweetness to vocal without making it obviously mid focus. This reflects particularly well in female vocal, especially since Liebesleid has an really good upper mid to treble extension that is detail yet doesn't necessary sound very bright. Bass has good hit and speed but doesn't quite have the deepest rumbling to shake your head. If you are bass head, this might be just a shy lacking quality wise. But for the rest, I'll say the bass performance is more than good enough. Overall I'll say Liebesleid is easily another ToTL, champion level earbud that can stand up to that of Shozy BK or Sennheiser MX985. Overall, I think Liebesleid is probably best suited for mainstream music and those who enjoy a quick, detailed and opened presentation. If there is one complaint I'll make about Liebesleid, it is that the earpieces are a bit heavy since they are made out of brass., even though they do sit quite comfortably in my ears. Last but not least, I do recommend using this with full foam as the soundstage can get slightly flat when you listen to it 'naked'.



Not quite what I was expecting. Thought it would be more similar to the Mojito (bright, cold), due to it's metal casing. 

Which earbud sounds the most similar to the Liebesleid? Your description almost sounds like CAX Black but with less bass. 



AkashS04 said:


> As suspected by @Ira Delphic that using Extreme Bass Preset with Amp Level High and 100% Bass and Treble might be the reason my Earbuds are getting spoiled. However, nothing happened to Monk+ and also with SHE3800 and one more earbud, one of the speakers stopped working (SHE3800 still works if I adjust the jack so I think changing jack plug might work). New Vido is also having some broken membrane sound from right speaker.
> 
> As I like Boominess and Warmness I get in songs while using these settings, I am wondering if there is any earbud which has rough and tough speakers membranes but with my desired sound signature (similar or better than SHE3800) and with Mic? Pls suggest if something is available. I sincerely thank the person who suggested me SHE3800 but unfortunately they are no longer working. Pls suggest similar sound earbud but ideally within $20 and I believe having high impedence should be good and might not broken down in PowerAmp with the above settings. Thanks.



You really should just invest in an IEM or headphone... You're pushing earbuds, which isn't a bass heavy medium in the first place due to the lack of seal, past their limit. At this point, you're wasting money busting these earbuds.


----------



## Saoshyant

ctaxxxx said:


> You really should just invest in an IEM or headphone... You're pushing earbuds, which isn't a bass heavy medium in the first place due to the lack of seal, past their limit. At this point, you're wasting money busting these earbuds.



I'd really have to guess at this point that the lack of IEM use is most likely caused due to discomfort or a need for less isolation.  While I may be wrong, I easily second the headphone recommendation.  Tons of inexpensive options if you look hard enough.


----------



## ClieOS (Jun 30, 2017)

ctaxxxx said:


> Not quite what I was expecting. Thought it would be more similar to the Mojito (bright, cold), due to it's metal casing.
> 
> Which earbud sounds the most similar to the Liebesleid? Your description almost sounds like CAX Black but with less bass..



Didn't have a CAX Black with me and will not presume to compare them by memory alone. I'll however be more inclined to describe Liebesleid as a wider sounding, more laid back and relax version of Masya.


----------



## AkashS04

ctaxxxx said:


> Not quite what I was expecting. Thought it would be more similar to the Mojito (bright, cold), due to it's metal casing.
> 
> Which earbud sounds the most similar to the Liebesleid? Your description almost sounds like CAX Black but with less bass.
> 
> ...


I really don't like feeling of IEMs. And most important, the way they create seal thus create vacuum, it makes my own voice heard very loud and very unnatural. Is there no Earbud which is of good quality?


----------



## chinmie

AkashS04 said:


> I really don't like feeling of IEMs. And most important, the way they create seal thus create vacuum, it makes my own voice heard very loud and very unnatural. Is there no Earbud which is of good quality?



there are many...but sadly they are not match your requirements and characteristics... might i suggest if you really like the SHE3800, you should just buy several of them as spares, and invest in earphone cases to prolong the life of your earbuds


----------



## teesui

AkashS04 said:


> I really don't like feeling of IEMs. And most important, the way they create seal thus create vacuum, it makes my own voice heard very loud and very unnatural. Is there no Earbud which is of good quality?



Or perhaps, maybe you should explore using headphones?


----------



## Ira Delphic

ctaxxxx said:


> Not quite what I was expecting. Thought it would be more similar to the Mojito (bright, cold), due to it's metal casing.
> 
> Which earbud sounds the most similar to the Liebesleid? Your description almost sounds like CAX Black but with less bass.
> 
> ...



I agree and no disrespect to AkashS04. He'd be better off with on ear or over eard headphones. My 1More over ears for example are so inexpensive and reasonably good!


----------



## ctaxxxx

AkashS04 said:


> I really don't like feeling of IEMs. And most important, the way they create seal thus create vacuum, it makes my own voice heard very loud and very unnatural. Is there no Earbud which is of good quality?



I think it's more less about quality, and more about design limitation. I don't think any earbud will last long after heavy use of bass boost. I think your last option is headphones. Since the drivers are much larger, they can take a lot more abuse.

If you want nauseating bass, save up for a JVC SZ2000 and you'll be good. Those things are literal mini sub-woofers.


----------



## WayTooCrazy (Jun 30, 2017)

@ctaxxxx  Not that I'm a fan of his reviews...


My Zen seem to have good bass. Not a ton granted.. but definitely what is there is quite enjoyable. My re-cabled Zen have even more bass than stock.


----------



## AkashS04

ctaxxxx said:


> I think it's more less about quality, and more about design limitation. I don't think any earbud will last long after heavy use of bass boost. I think your last option is headphones. Since the drivers are much larger, they can take a lot more abuse.
> 
> If you want nauseating bass, save up for a JVC SZ2000 and you'll be good. Those things are literal mini sub-woofers.


But any earbud which you think might be good bet and have SHE3800 kind of sound which has boomy bass and very warm sound.


----------



## AkashS04

chinmie said:


> there are many...but sadly they are not match your requirements and characteristics... might i suggest if you really like the SHE3800, you should just buy several of them as spares, and invest in earphone cases to prolong the life of your earbuds





teesui said:


> Or perhaps, maybe you should explore using headphones?


Not sure about Headphones. Don't like their big sizes and I am sure that I will look funny and idiot wearing them.


----------



## AkashS04

Ira Delphic said:


> I agree and no disrespect to AkashS04. He'd be better off with on ear or over eard headphones. My 1More over ears for example are so inexpensive and reasonably good!


Which 1More you are using? Good in terms of Bass sound and warmness?


----------



## AkashS04

Ira Delphic said:


> I agree and no disrespect to AkashS04. He'd be better off with on ear or over eard headphones. My 1More over ears for example are so inexpensive and reasonably good!





ctaxxxx said:


> I think it's more less about quality, and more about design limitation. I don't think any earbud will last long after heavy use of bass boost. I think your last option is headphones. Since the drivers are much larger, they can take a lot more abuse.
> 
> If you want nauseating bass, save up for a JVC SZ2000 and you'll be good. Those things are literal mini sub-woofers.



If I managed to get some earbud which is having really really boomy Bass and lava hot (warm) sound, then I might not to use Extreme Bass preset in PowerAmp. But I don't think it is possible in Earbud. Or do you know any such earbud?


----------



## Makahl

AkashS04 said:


> Not sure about Headphones. Don't like their big sizes and I am sure that I will look funny and idiot wearing them.



Your best option is the Koss Porta Pro KTC, just grab some pair at some bhphotovideo or amazon and you'll be happy if you liked earbuds. It's kinda open sound so will not isolate like an IEM and porta pro will give you the bass/warm/boomy/hardcore bass which you're seeking for or at least the same level which you're used with earbuds and PowerAmp app -- but better.


----------



## ctaxxxx

AkashS04 said:


> But any earbud which you think might be good bet and have SHE3800 kind of sound which has boomy bass and very warm sound.



I'm have some Cypherus Blue Darth earbuds that I've been trying to sell. However, those are more sub-bass (rumble) than mid-bass (impact, or boomy). They have what I would describe a dark, bassy sound. Check my signature / Comparison List for impressions. PM me if you're interested.



AkashS04 said:


> Not sure about Headphones. Don't like their big sizes and *I am sure that I will look funny and idiot wearing them*.



Dude seriously?... Who cares what other people think. 

And if size is that important, get some on-ears. Or maybe some clip-ons.



AkashS04 said:


> Which 1More you are using? Good in terms of Bass sound and warmness?



I would also recommend 1more. I loved their triple driver, so I can only imagine their headphones are even better. They're suppose to be coming out with a new one in the US too (already released in China).


----------



## AkashS04

ctaxxxx said:


> I'm have some Cypherus Blue Darth earbuds that I've been trying to sell. However, those are more sub-bass (rumble) than mid-bass (impact, or boomy). They have what I would describe a dark, bassy sound. Check my signature / Comparison List for impressions. PM me if you're interested.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So boomy and rumling bass both are different? And the one which is in SHE3800 more  like Rumbling or boomy? How is this 1More buds: https://goo.gl/zZK4cz


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Last item from Aliexpress just showed up!


----------



## Ira Delphic

AkashS04 said:


> Which 1More you are using? Good in terms of Bass sound and warmness?



MK801 - I think they stopped making them. On Amazon they were being sold off for cheap a while back. But read the reviews, may not have enough bass for your taste. But they have a mic!

https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/...-line-microphone-and-remote-red.21290/reviews


----------



## Danneq

WayTooCrazy said:


>




Yeees?   (For us Swedish speaking people)


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Danneq said:


> Yeees?   (For us Swedish speaking people)



Respond? I guess "Svara" is a weird name for an earbud.


----------



## chinmie

AkashS04 said:


> So boomy and rumling bass both are different? And the one which is in SHE3800 more  like Rumbling or boomy? How is this 1More buds: https://goo.gl/zZK4cz



your requirement of big bass are different from others. it show by how you describe vido having less bass to the SHE3800. the vido is deeper, has more sub and low bass, while the SHE3800 is thumpier, less deep but has more low to mid bass. 

from memory, you might want to check the Qian39 and Edifier H180. they both might fit your needs and (to me,)  a few steps better than the SHE3800. they don't have mics though

also, blasting away in volumes with earbuds is definitely not safe for your ears. you better use IEMs, because they isolate noise better, you will use less volume. hearing your own voice unnaturally with IEMs is small inconvinience than accelerated hearing loss


----------



## Frederick Wang

WayTooCrazy said:


> Respond? I guess "Svara" is a weird name for an earbud.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svara
Very likely a sanskrit word


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Frederick Wang said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svara
> Very likely a sanskrit word



Yours makes more sense!


----------



## Danneq

WayTooCrazy said:


> Respond? I guess "Svara" is a weird name for an earbud.



It's probably sanskrit, but you are correct that it means "respond" or "answer" in Swedish.

But it's not uncommon that different languages have words that are similar but mean very different things...


----------



## golov17

Danneq said:


> It's probably sanskrit, but you are correct that it means "respond" or "answer" in Swedish.
> 
> But it's not uncommon that different languages have words that are similar but mean very different things...


Noisy quarrel in Russian


----------



## Danneq

Well, "noisy quarrel" is a PERFECT name for an earbud!


----------



## Ira Delphic

Danneq said:


> Well, "noisy quarrel" is a PERFECT name for an earbud!



At first glance I thought it was "noisy squirrel" which is what eabuds with blown drivers sound like. Also a good name for a band!


----------



## ctaxxxx

Can anyone tell me how well the high ohm earbuds compare to the TOTL buds I've heard? Been trying to decide if I should purchase the MoonDrop Liebesleid or the following buds below in one order:

Yinman 600 LE
Seahf 650
K's 500
There's also the the HP 650 and ps600, but I'm trying to stick to one seller on AliExpress.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Ok, so I burned them in and have about 26hrs on them. They do sound good. Though, stock configuration makes them sound distant and weak. If you flip them around and use them as normal "buds" they sound MUCH better. So... I slapped on the Balanced cable from my Fiio F5, put on the VE Hooks and wear them normally. Still doing more testing... but they sound really good at everything I've listened to so far.


----------



## ClieOS

**** Tank
DaiK DK-Song(宋) High Impedance Edition 155ohm
OURART Ti7


----------



## Saoshyant

I wonder if the high imp DK-Song sounds different.  Really preferred the Song to Jin.


----------



## Frederick Wang

Danneq said:


> It's probably sanskrit, but you are correct that it means "respond" or "answer" in Swedish.
> 
> But it's not uncommon that different languages have words that are similar but mean very different things...


Since we are on this topic... can you believe "crap ing"（诗婷） could be a Chinese girl's name which literally means poetic and graceful? I'm crap ting you not.


----------



## ClieOS

Saoshyant said:


> I wonder if the high imp DK-Song sounds different.  Really preferred the Song to Jin.



It is lightly smoother, more laid back and more open sounding than the normal DK-Song, otherwise the overall tuning remains fairly similar.


----------



## golov17 (Jul 2, 2017)

@ClieOS , how OURART vs KT100?


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> @ClieOS , how OURART vs KT100?



Great improvement and almost no comparison there. KT100 is a good entry level earbud, but this is at least a upper mid tier, if not better.


----------



## Danneq

Frederick Wang said:


> Since we are on this topic... can you believe "crap ing"（诗婷） could be a Chinese girl's name which literally means poetic and graceful? I'm crap ting you not.



Haha! Very unfortunate name!

I will try to end this off topic discussion, but knowing some Japanese, it is fun to know that "Aho" is a Finnish surname. There is even a Finnish female painter who's name is "Henna Aho".

Back to earbud topic, the discussion is going slow with NiceNCK about the DIY PK2 that arrived with a broken left side (no sound). I have filmed it and sent them an e-mail. In the same order I only received 1 of the 2 pairs of Vido that I ordered. They will send me another pair of Vido and I hope the issue with the DIY PK2 will be resolved...


----------



## teesui

Frederick Wang said:


> Since we are on this topic... can you believe "crap ing"（诗婷） could be a Chinese girl's name which literally means poetic and graceful? I'm crap ting you not.



That's just unfortunate due to pinyin.

In Cantonese, it'd be "sze ting".


----------



## chaiyuta

I already got Puresounds PS100-600S with 600-core cable 2.5mm balanced last week. Initial impression is quite good. mid-bass, bass impact, resolution are improved from my PS100-500 Pop balanced. Soundstage is wider. It is 3D-dimenisonal soundstage. Cable is sturdy and very long (around 1.6m, I guess). However it need to burn-in more 150-200 hours.


----------



## badmod

DIY EMX500 from woo store is the same as FENGRU?


----------



## kurtextrem

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...274319.html?shortkey=fY7beyqq&addresstype=600
something new on Ali (posted in the FB group) "SMALL FIVE DIY PK1"


----------



## golov17

kurtextrem said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...274319.html?shortkey=fY7beyqq&addresstype=600
> something new on Ali (posted in the FB group) "SMALL FIVE DIY PK1"


200,300 ohms o_O


----------



## golov17

badmod said:


> DIY EMX500 from woo store is the same as FENGRU?


Same


----------



## Mahathera

golov17 said:


> 200,300 ohms o_O



I apologize if maybe this question already answered. Tho i still dont know what is it about ohm number? What is the effect to SQ? And more mistery to me, why it is getting pricier the higher the number is? I know not all, but still a common thing.

I'll be happy if our sifu could shed some light to this newb.


----------



## AkashS04

chinmie said:


> your requirement of big bass are different from others. it show by how you describe vido having less bass to the SHE3800. the vido is deeper, has more sub and low bass, while the SHE3800 is thumpier, less deep but has more low to mid bass.
> 
> from memory, you might want to check the Qian39 and Edifier H180. they both might fit your needs and (to me,)  a few steps better than the SHE3800. they don't have mics though
> 
> also, blasting away in volumes with earbuds is definitely not safe for your ears. you better use IEMs, because they isolate noise better, you will use less volume. hearing your own voice unnaturally with IEMs is small inconvinience than accelerated hearing loss


I like the Bass in SHE3800. More thumping and Booming. Edified 180 has Mic version which is P180 (H180 without Mic). But I am not sure if that is having better thumping Bass than 3800 or what? Qian 39 or Qian 25 do not have Mic version. I don't listen to music on High volume. Mostly around 50% or even less than that.

I also feel that any High impedence bud should also be fine and might not be broken with these settings. But I don't know if any high impedence bud is there which has SHE3800 kind of sound and have Mic too. Are you aware of any?


----------



## AkashS04

Ira Delphic said:


> MK801 - I think they stopped making them. On Amazon they were being sold off for cheap a while back. But read the reviews, may not have enough bass for your taste. But they have a mic!
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/...-line-microphone-and-remote-red.21290/reviews


Thanks Ira. I would still prefer Earbuds. One thing regarding the setting of PowerAmp, do you think if High Impedence earbuds should address the issue of speakers breaking due to these settings? Or It will not make any difference. I guess I should use Monk+ for next few days and see if that also broken down or work perfect even with these settings. But I don't know if any high impedence  bud is there which has 3800 kind of sound and with Mic too.


----------



## golov17

Mahathera said:


> I apologize if maybe this question already answered. Tho i still dont know what is it about ohm number? What is the effect to SQ? And more mistery to me, why it is getting pricier the higher the number is? I know not all, but still a common thing.
> 
> I'll be happy if our sifu could shed some light to this newb.


Not necessarily .. Mojito have 21 ohm, CM700 16, NW Studio Neo 34, etc ..


----------



## slappypete

Mahathera said:


> I apologize if maybe this question already answered. Tho i still dont know what is it about ohm number? What is the effect to SQ? And more mistery to me, why it is getting pricier the higher the number is? I know not all, but still a common thing.
> 
> I'll be happy if our sifu could shed some light to this newb.



High impedance headphones do not necessarily create a higher quality of sound. High impedance will give you an advantage when pairing with a source with high output impedance. If you pair a low impedance headphone with a source with high output impedance, such as the headphone output of an old speaker amp, you will create a bump in the frequency response of the headphone around the resonant frequency of the driver. Most good sources designed for low impedance headphones have very low or zero output impedance, which makes this issue of little concern when using such a source.

Some sources will output more distortion into low impedance loads, commonly tube amps, so when using such a source, high impedance headphones will have an advantage there as well. If you have a good source that was designed for use with low impedance headphones then this will likely not be of concern.

High impedance earbud drivers may be marginally more expensive to produce so that might explain some of the difference in price. However, my opinion is that it is mostly marketing hype. I'm not saying there aren't really great high impedance earbuds, there obviously are, but there are also TOTL low impedance earbuds, so its not just impedance that matters. This link might be of interest to you.



AkashS04 said:


> Thanks Ira. I would still prefer Earbuds. One thing regarding the setting of PowerAmp, do you think if High Impedence earbuds should address the issue of speakers breaking due to these settings? Or It will not make any difference. I guess I should use Monk+ for next few days and see if that also broken down or work perfect even with these settings. But I don't know if any high impedence  bud is there which has 3800 kind of sound and with Mic too.



I have taken apart both high and low impedance earbuds and looked a the drivers up close. In the drivers I examined, the driver technology was more or less identical, as far as I could tell with the naked eye anyway. The exception being the voicecoil of course. The main difference between a low and high impedance driver is that the high impedance driver uses many more wraps of thinner gauge wire in the voicecoil compared to the low impedance driver.

These very thin wires travel from the solder pads on the back of the driver magnet towards the edge of the driver, then enter a notch in the edge of the rear driver assembly, and travel along the driver membrane until they finally reach the voicecoil.

I don't know in exactly what way your earbuds are breaking, but I will say that these tiny voicecoil wires are by far the most fragile part of an earbud driver, and if you are somehow breaking these wires in a low impedance driver, you will likely break them in a high impedance driver as well because the wires are even more fragile in a high impedance driver.

Now that may not actually be your problem, but I just wanted to point out that high impedance drivers are not by design more rugged, and I would not just assume they can handle more abuse. Whether or not a driver can hold up to your level of EQ may not just be a simple matter of higher impedance = better.

In the realm of speaker drivers, I know when you stress them beyond their capabilities with too much bass, you can end up warping the voicecoil due to the heat generated in the coil. This can cause the coil to rub on the magnet and cause very audible distortion, and also lower sensitivity of the driver. This may be what is happening to you but I can't say. I don't know how often this happens with headphone drivers, and if it is the problem, I also can't say if a higher impedance voicecoil would be better.


----------



## chinmie

AkashS04 said:


> I like the Bass in SHE3800. More thumping and Booming. Edified 180 has Mic version which is P180 (H180 without Mic). But I am not sure if that is having better thumping Bass than 3800 or what? Qian 39 or Qian 25 do not have Mic version. I don't listen to music on High volume. Mostly around 50% or even less than that.
> 
> I also feel that any High impedence bud should also be fine and might not be broken with these settings. But I don't know if any high impedence bud is there which has SHE3800 kind of sound and have Mic too. Are you aware of any?



the edifier H180 is more in line with the SHE3800, and in my personal opinion is better than the SHE3800. as far as high impedance buds, i don't have any experience with them, so i'm afraid i can't comment on them. you can see what earphones i have (and had) in my profile.

if you don't mind me asking, what kind of music/ artists that you like to listen to? so that maybe i can figure out a suggestion?


----------



## AkashS04

chinmie said:


> the edifier H180 is more in line with the SHE3800, and in my personal opinion is better than the SHE3800. as far as high impedance buds, i don't have any experience with them, so i'm afraid i can't comment on them. you can see what earphones i have (and had) in my profile.
> 
> if you don't mind me asking, what kind of music/ artists that you like to listen to? so that maybe i can figure out a suggestion?


So 180 also has same kind of thumping bass and warm sound? I usually listen to range of music. Mostly Indian Songs and in English R&B, Pop, Elton John and so many. Not very specific. But most of the times I will be listening to Indian songs only.


----------



## AkashS04

slappypete said:


> High impedance headphones do not necessarily create a higher quality of sound. High impedance will give you an advantage when pairing with a source with high output impedance. If you pair a low impedance headphone with a source with high output impedance, such as the headphone output of an old speaker amp, you will create a bump in the frequency response of the headphone around the resonant frequency of the driver. Most good sources designed for low impedance headphones have very low or zero output impedance, which makes this issue of little concern when using such a source.
> 
> Some sources will output more distortion into low impedance loads, commonly tube amps, so when using such a source, high impedance headphones will have an advantage there as well. If you have a good source that was designed for use with low impedance headphones then this will likely not be of concern.
> 
> ...


As you mentioned that Voicecoil may be even fragile in High Impedence buds, then I guess I shud at least not use or think, This is true that too much Bass is actually warping the driver but does that mean that you forget about listening to heavy bass sound if you are using Eabuds? Is there no earbud which can handle tons of Bass and Amp easily.


----------



## slappypete

AkashS04 said:


> As you mentioned that Voicecoil may be even fragile in High Impedence buds, then I guess I shud at least not use or think, This is true that too much Bass is actually warping the driver but does that mean that you forget about listening to heavy bass sound if you are using Eabuds? Is there no earbud which can handle tons of Bass and Amp easily.



I use earbuds more than any other headphone type. I find the bass capabilities of earbuds to be perfectly adequate for my tastes. 

I am saying that the voicecoil wires are more fragile in high impedance earbud drivers, but I am not saying there isn't a high impedance earbud out there that could handle your bass requirements. My point is, don't assume anything about how rugged an earbud is based on impedance. You seemed to think getting a high impedance earbud would solve your problem, I'm saying maybe not. 

I honestly have no idea what to recommend for your bass and EQ requirements. It may be that no earbud is capable of surviving your level of EQ, but I can't say. I think you either need to find someone else who uses the same EQ settings who can tell you what works, or you just need to take a chance and purchase something, knowing you might end up breaking it anyway. Also the fact that you need a mic is severely limiting your options. Maybe consider having two pairs of earbuds with you at all times, one with mic for phone calls, and the other your critical listening earbud.


----------



## chinmie

AkashS04 said:


> So 180 also has same kind of thumping bass and warm sound? I usually listen to range of music. Mostly Indian Songs and in English R&B, Pop, Elton John and so many. Not very specific. But most of the times I will be listening to Indian songs only.



yes, it has thump and they extend lower than the SHE3800



AkashS04 said:


> As you mentioned that Voicecoil may be even fragile in High Impedence buds, then I guess I shud at least not use or think, This is true that too much Bass is actually warping the driver but does that mean that you forget about listening to heavy bass sound if you are using Eabuds? Is there no earbud which can handle tons of Bass and Amp easily.



i think you better stick to low impedanced buds as you don't use amps (as far as i know) to optimize the high impedance buds. 

earbuds can handle ample amount of bass, for example the vido, and i do listen to EDM sometimes,  and i don't use any eq at all, though sometimes i use the bass boost on my amp, but even without bassboost, it can handle more than enough bass than i ever need. 

what puzzles me is that you said the vido is weak on bass, while i find that the SHE3800 can't even reach the bass amount of vido. vido's bass is what i describe as big and deep. that what makes me think that your requirement for bass is unique. 

just remember, to much energy in the mid frequency will ruin your hearing, as you need that freq to hear the most (people talking, general everyday noise, etc)


----------



## AkashS04

chinmie said:


> yes, it has thump and they extend lower than the SHE3800
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi,

I use  PowerAmp Android Player and not physical Amp. But PowerAmp is powerful in amplifying the sound and has good Bass and Tone inbuilt. I use Extreme bass Preset with Tone and 100% Bass and 90-95% Treble and also Amp level more than 60%.

Vido does have bass but it is not thumping like SHE3800. As you are saying Edifier 180 has even more thumping bass than SHE3800 then I guess I can try that. 

Also, to avoid any issue with earud, I guess I will reduce the amp level to below or at least at 50% now and also going to reduce Bass setting to 90% and treble to 85%.  Hope that shud work.


----------



## AkashS04

slappypete said:


> I use earbuds more than any other headphone type. I find the bass capabilities of earbuds to be perfectly adequate for my tastes.
> 
> I am saying that the voicecoil wires are more fragile in high impedance earbud drivers, but I am not saying there isn't a high impedance earbud out there that could handle your bass requirements. My point is, don't assume anything about how rugged an earbud is based on impedance. You seemed to think getting a high impedance earbud would solve your problem, I'm saying maybe not.
> 
> I honestly have no idea what to recommend for your bass and EQ requirements. It may be that no earbud is capable of surviving your level of EQ, but I can't say. I think you either need to find someone else who uses the same EQ settings who can tell you what works, or you just need to take a chance and purchase something, knowing you might end up breaking it anyway. Also the fact that you need a mic is severely limiting your options. Maybe consider having two pairs of earbuds with you at all times, one with mic for phone calls, and the other your critical listening earbud.


The only person I found using PowerAmp here is @Ira Delphic  and he uses Bass and Treble setting and not the one which I use. I guess he also don't use 100% Bass on top of the preset. I have Monk+ earbud which is high impedence, as it is not in use any more as the mic is not working, I can use it for few days with my desired settings and see if that is also broken or not. If not then high impeence bud might be fine for my purpose.


----------



## slappypete

AkashS04 said:


> The only person I found using PowerAmp here is @Ira Delphic  and he uses Bass and Treble setting and not the one which I use. I guess he also don't use 100% Bass on top of the preset. I have Monk+ earbud which is high impedence, as it is not in use any more as the mic is not working, I can use it for few days with my desired settings and see if that is also broken or not. If not then high impeence bud might be fine for my purpose.



That will tell you how well the monk+ holds up to your settings only, it won't tell you definitively that high impedance earbuds are better for your bass settings. Different drivers/earbuds may behave differently, impedance is not the only variable.


----------



## AkashS04

slappypete said:


> That will tell you how well the monk+ holds up to your settings only, it won't tell you definitively that high impedance earbuds are better for your bass settings. Different drivers/earbuds may behave differently, impedance is not the only variable.


Ok. So using  Monk+ might not give me clarity on this. But the issue is that sound of Monk+ is nowhere near to SHE3800 or even Vido in terms of Bass. Wish they bring some Bass version of Monk+.


----------



## jant71

I really don't think Monk+( 64ohm and 116 Sens.) is a high impedance bud.


----------



## rkw

kurtextrem said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...274319.html?shortkey=fY7beyqq&addresstype=600
> something new on Ali (posted in the FB group) "SMALL FIVE DIY PK1"





golov17 said:


> 200,300 ohms o_O


The Yuin shell fits my ears the best, and this is interesting to me as a potential TOTL earbud with Yuin shell. Is Shozy BK considered to be the current top earbud with Yuin shell?


----------



## DBaldock9

I've heard from Wong Kuan Wae, that the set of "Blur 魔音” w/2.5mm TRRS he built for me, should be mailed today, and hopefully I'll receive them within a couple of weeks.


----------



## Mahathera

rkw said:


> The Yuin shell fits my ears the best, and this is interesting to me as a potential TOTL earbud with Yuin shell. Is Shozy BK considered to be the current top earbud with Yuin shell?



As far as I know BK is the totl yuin housing. I have the same expectation about this new bud as you. Hopefully there is a sound impression soon. Wouldn't risk ordering.


----------



## chinmie

AkashS04 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I use  PowerAmp Android Player and not physical Amp. But PowerAmp is powerful in amplifying the sound and has good Bass and Tone inbuilt. I use Extreme bass Preset with Tone and 100% Bass and 90-95% Treble and also Amp level more than 60%.
> 
> ...



to make the vido more like the sound of SHE3800, you might want to try boosting not the lowest bass, but play with the boosting mid low freq (the 62,125,and 250 hz slider on the poweramp)


----------



## golov17

Mahathera said:


> As far as I know BK is the totl yuin housing. I have the same expectation about this new bud as you. Hopefully there is a sound impression soon. Wouldn't risk ordering.


Some guys prefer Yuin pk1 or Sunrise Dragon until now ..


----------



## Mahathera

golov17 said:


> Some guys prefer Yuin pk1 or Sunrise Dragon until now ..



I have listened yuin OK 1, which i think quite totl line up of yuin. But the SQ is just not good to my ears. 
Quite interestingly, I haven't found yuin-type earbuds with bass heavy signature, mostly on decent bass but with good clarity and resolution.

I have seen people sell Sunrise dragon for quite high price in my local forum, should I jump for it? 
Haven't found convincing impression


----------



## ClieOS

Mahathera said:


> I have listened yuin OK 1, which i think quite totl line up of yuin. But the SQ is just not good to my ears.
> Quite interestingly, I haven't found yuin-type earbuds with bass heavy signature, mostly on decent bass but with good clarity and resolution.
> 
> I have seen people sell Sunrise dragon for quite high price in my local forum, should I jump for it?
> Haven't found convincing impression



Regular price for SWD2 should be around US$100. While It might not be the absolute ToTL earbud anymore, it is still a really good all-rounder and well worth the price.


----------



## Mahathera

ClieOS said:


> Regular price for SWD2 should be around US$100. While It might not be the absolute ToTL earbud anymore, it is still a really good all-rounder and well worth the price.



True, they sale it around that price. It's just that at that price there is cygnus, or add a bit to masya. 
Tough choice for me. 

All in all, my blur should be sent on shipping today by Wong Kuan Wae.
Will post a bit about it later on.


----------



## noknok23

I saw emx500 is sold with different cable on some shop (brown, green, white) 
Any differences in SQ or it is only cosmetics?


----------



## ricesteam

I can't seem to find an answer, but wouldn't a 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter defeat the purpose of a 2.5mm earbud? That is, to enjoy a 2.5mm balanced earbud to its full potential, it's best to have a 2.5 source?


----------



## Saoshyant

Yes.  The only reason to buy a 2.5mm earbud if you don't already have the ability to use it is if you're planning on buying one fairly soon in the future.  Otherwise, you're just adding an adapter to your chain that might not fit that well or have other issues.

On a side note, it's rare to find a balanced jack that can take both balanced and single ended.  I only know of one off the top of my head now that I think about it.


----------



## ctaxxxx (Jul 23, 2017)

Finished my CampFred 2 impressions (mostly rewrote my initial CampFred 1 review). Included a comparison between the two as well. Definitely recommend upgrading or saving up the extra $50 to get the improved 2nd version! They don't beat the Diomnes Lvl 2 for first place (that soundstage!), but I don't see anything else taking their spot for second place.



ctaxxxx said:


> See signature for revised impressions.



Also, I ended up ordering the MoonDrop Liebesleid, so waiting for them to arrive. EMS shipping seems to give the same wait time as ePacket... So I went with ePacket for shipping this time.


----------



## Makahl

Danneq said:


> Haha! Very unfortunate name!
> 
> I will try to end this off topic discussion, but knowing some Japanese, it is fun to know that "Aho" is a Finnish surname. There is even a Finnish female painter who's name is "Henna Aho".
> 
> Back to earbud topic, the discussion is going slow with NiceNCK about the DIY PK2 that arrived with a broken left side (no sound). I have filmed it and sent them an e-mail. In the same order I only received 1 of the 2 pairs of Vido that I ordered. They will send me another pair of Vido and I hope the issue with the DIY PK2 will be resolved...



I hope it'll end well! Btw, do you have an opinion about Vido?


----------



## Danneq (Jul 5, 2017)

Makahl said:


> I hope it'll end well! Btw, do you have an opinion about Vido?



They replied yesterday that they will send a new pair of DIY PK2 plus the second pair of Vido that they forgot to send.

Vido is pretty damn good. As I was listening to it yesterday I thought "it's the best earbud under $100 that I've heard!", but I need to compare it directly to some of the other earbuds I've got.

My problem is that I have sold most of my non TOTL and non budget earbuds (I decided to mainly focus on $150+ TOTL earbuds and sub $10 budget earbuds).


----------



## knudsen

ctaxxxx said:


> There is slightly more volume in the bass, but it overpowers the mids enough to make everything sound a little too boomy in comparison.


You're saying the CF1 has more volume in bass than CF2? Do you have a Vido, could you compare the CF2 to that one, especially the bass? Thanks


----------



## ctaxxxx

knudsen said:


> You're saying the CF1 has more volume in bass than CF2? Do you have a Vido, could you compare the CF2 to that one, especially the bass? Thanks



Only slightly. CF2 is more refined overall, with tighter, more accurate bass. 

I don't have a Vido, but I'll probably order one today. What other budget buds are worth getting besides the Vido?


----------



## chaiyuta (Jul 5, 2017)

ctaxxxx said:


> Only slightly. CF2 is more refined overall, with tighter, more accurate bass.
> 
> I don't have a Vido, but I'll probably order one today. What other budget buds are worth getting besides the Vido?



NICEHCK EB200, Yincrow X6 and EMX500. Do you plan to buy Blur series? and It's unbelieveable that Diomnes Lv.2 still your No.1. For this reason, It make me more interested to purchase for Diomnes Lv.2 since I just got a original Monk+ recently. Anyway, Thanks for your earbuds comparison list.


----------



## AkashS04

chinmie said:


> to make the vido more like the sound of SHE3800, you might want to try boosting not the lowest bass, but play with the boosting mid low freq (the 62,125,and 250 hz slider on the poweramp)


Ok. You mean increase the frequency of 62, 125 and 250 in PowerAmp. Correct?


----------



## knudsen

ctaxxxx said:


> Only slightly. CF2 is more refined overall, with tighter, more accurate bass.
> 
> I don't have a Vido, but I'll probably order one today. What other budget buds are worth getting besides the Vido?


I'd also say get EMX500, I think its a signature you don't have (a bit U - unless you know its not for you). It's all I'm using - seems no one possessing it don't like it (??)


----------



## chinmie

yes, but don't push them all to max . agood rule of thumb to eq is put them all in neutral, play the song and set the desired volume first, then adjust the eq


----------



## Saoshyant

Typically I try to EQ into the negative, lessen the bands I don't want, then increase volume and adjust.


----------



## AkashS04

I also have one more query, what is the benefit of having high impedence earbuds like 150 Ohms or even 300/400 Ohms. Do they affect sound in better way? Or just sound loud or so?


----------



## Danneq

Saoshyant said:


> Typically I try to EQ into the negative, lessen the bands I don't want, then increase volume and adjust.



I usually boost a little bit. However, if someone wants to boost a lot it is much better to do what you suggest. Then you will avoid distortion.


----------



## chinmie

Saoshyant said:


> Typically I try to EQ into the negative, lessen the bands I don't want, then increase volume and adjust.



yup. this is the most ideal. most that have done mixing and recordings will definitely do this way. i didn't suggest this because based on my experience to my friends, telling them to do it like that ends up confusing them


----------



## cqtek (Jul 5, 2017)

Today I received the EMX500 (green cable), for now I like the sound (without burning), I find it similar to the T-Music v1 (Bass Tuned), with less sensitivity.
But I have a problem, if I press the plug (is made from metal) it starts to sound weird (does not sound on one side, makes interferences...) Probably the connections inside the plug are not coated. The problem does not happen if I stretch the cable from the plug. I have noticed when trying to remove the plug from the player (I have some players that need to apply force to remove the plug).
Has it happened to you? Can the plug be unscrewed?

I have contacted the aliexpress seller to find a solution.


----------



## knudsen

cqtek said:


> Today I received the EMX500 (green cable), for now I like the sound (without burning), I find it similar to the T-Music v1 (Bass Tuned), with less sensitivity.
> But I have a problem, if I press the plug (is made from metal) it starts to sound weird (does not sound on one side, makes interferences...) Probably the connections inside the plug are not coated. The problem does not happen if I stretch the cable from the plug. I have noticed when trying to remove the plug from the player (I have some players that need to apply force to remove the plug).
> Has it happened to you? Can the plug be unscrewed?
> 
> I have contacted the aliexpress seller to find a solution.


I've changed the plug on one; it was acting a bit strange, the casing cylinder would go a bit up and down without rotating. But the real reason was I wanted to try a rhodium plug. I could'nt unscrew the stock plug though it seems to be possible, it went fubar when I tried to unscrew with a bit of force. Could you keep the cable stretched with some 3:1 heat shrink tubing?


----------



## rkw

AkashS04 said:


> I also have one more query, what is the benefit of having high impedance earbuds like 150 Ohms or even 300/400 Ohms. Do they affect sound in better way? Or just sound loud or so?


High impedance is not a goal or benefit in itself. It is a side effect from other factors such as using thinner wires in the voicecoil. Thinner wires offer some benefits such as making the driver lighter weight and more responsive, but at the expense of increasing impedance and requiring more power to achieve the same loudness. So impedance may have some correlation to sound quality but it is just one factor of the total package in the final result. Some manufacturers are pushing impedance for marketing reasons because it is one of the few spec values that distinguish earbuds from each other.


----------



## RyanM

Asura 2.0s - I'm in love *swoon* I don't know about the sound signature. Could be the same, however, maybe not.


----------



## RyanM

Monk Plus (Silver Ed.?). Better cables on both this and the Asura, so that will potentially affect the sound. Not sure when either will be available @ veclan.com but hopefully soon enough.


----------



## noknok23

Looks really good. Finally a sexy alternative from the coffee cream ...


----------



## AkashS04

rkw said:


> High impedance is not a goal or benefit in itself. It is a side effect from other factors such as using thinner wires in the voicecoil. Thinner wires offer some benefits such as making the driver lighter weight and more responsive, but at the expense of increasing impedance and requiring more power to achieve the same loudness. So impedance may have some correlation to sound quality but it is just one factor of the total package in the final result. Some manufacturers are pushing impedance for marketing reasons because it is one of the few spec values that distinguish earbuds from each other.


So it is no a good idea to use High impedence earbuds? In fact you eed to give more power to get sane level of loudness. Isn't it?


----------



## rkw

AkashS04 said:


> So it is no a good idea to use High impedence earbuds? In fact you eed to give more power to get sane level of loudness. Isn't it?


It's a tradeoff between (potentially) getting higher sound quality but requiring more power.


----------



## AkashS04

rkw said:


> It's a tradeoff between (potentially) getting higher sound quality but requiring more power.


Ok. So high impedence means higher sound quality. And less distortion as well? Better bass response too?


----------



## ctaxxxx

chaiyuta said:


> NICEHCK EB200, Yincrow X6 and EMX500. Do you plan to buy Blur series? and It's unbelieveable that Diomnes Lv.2 still your No.1. For this reason, It make me more interested to purchase for Diomnes Lv.2 since I just got a original Monk+ recently. Anyway, Thanks for your earbuds comparison list.



Maybe in the future. Ordered quite a bit (still waiting on Uairekko custom, and Liebesleid being $250...).

So for budget buds I have:

NICEHCK EB200
Yincrow X6
EMX500

Vido

Anything else, or should get instead? Don't want to stray too far from an order total of $50.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Waiting for my HD600 to finish burn-in so I can toss the EB200 on the cooker. So far, Not really a difference between them and a burned-in pair of Monk+.


----------



## rkw

AkashS04 said:


> Ok. So high impedence means higher sound quality.


I didn't say that. Please reread because I chose my words very carefully.


----------



## cqtek (Jul 5, 2017)

knudsen said:


> I've changed the plug on one; it was acting a bit strange, the casing cylinder would go a bit up and down without rotating. But the real reason was I wanted to try a rhodium plug. I could'nt unscrew the stock plug though it seems to be possible, it went fubar when I tried to unscrew with a bit of force. Could you keep the cable stretched with some 3:1 heat shrink tubing?



Thank you for your support.

Bad contact occurs when I try to pry the plug attached to the player (only with a little pressure the problem occurs). It's not a problem with the cable. Maybe, like I said, the inside connections touch the plug cover or with each other.

How have you changed the plug, by cutting the cable or by opening the plug?
I've tried opening it manually but I think I'll need help with tools to do it.

What plug you used? Where I can buy it?


----------



## ricesteam

AkashS04 said:


> Ok. So high impedence means higher sound quality. And less distortion as well? Better bass response too?



I've been learning a bit about impedance because I recently picked up an amp with adjustable settings. I found this article helpful: https://nwavguy.blogspot.ca/2011/02/headphone-impedance-explained.html


----------



## Dark Helmet

ctaxxxx said:


> Maybe in the future. Ordered quite a bit (still waiting on Uairekko custom, and Liebesleid being $250...).
> 
> So for budget buds I have:
> 
> ...


NiceHCK PK2.  I have found that these buds require more burn in to sound good.  At first I did not like them at all as I thought they sounded small, thin and narrow.  Now they sound very balanced to me and the bass has come up quite a bit.  Honestly I think it will improve more with some more burning in.


----------



## Saoshyant

ctaxxxx said:


> Maybe in the future. Ordered quite a bit (still waiting on Uairekko custom, and Liebesleid being $250...).
> 
> So for budget buds I have:
> 
> ...



Vido, X6 & EMX500 will fill a fairly similar role.  Of the three, I personally prefer the EMX500, but would also get the Vido.  I also can second the HCK PK2.

As I don't know your tastes, I'd also read up on **** PT15 (treble & MMCX) & Auglamour RX-1 (vocals, and is 14USD on Amazon right now.)


----------



## chaiyuta

ctaxxxx said:


> Maybe in the future. Ordered quite a bit (still waiting on Uairekko custom, and Liebesleid being $250...).
> 
> So for budget buds I have:
> 
> ...


Among 4 budget earbuds which one you like most?


----------



## ctaxxxx

Decided to replace Yincrow X6 with the DIY PK2 for my final order. Will be interesting to see how these scale compared to TOTL buds.


----------



## ctaxxxx

chaiyuta said:


> Among 4 budget earbuds which one you like most?



Ah, sorry. That was meant as a question of which buds I should add to the Aliexpress order (which I just placed).


----------



## Saoshyant

@ctaxxxx You should enjoy your Uairekko, he did a great job with both of mine.  He tries really hard to get the sound sig you describe.


----------



## knudsen

cqtek said:


> Thank you for your support.
> 
> Bad contact occurs when I try to pry the plug attached to the player (only with a little pressure the problem occurs). It's not a problem with the cable. Maybe, like I said, the inside connections touch the plug cover or with each other.
> 
> ...


I bought this, I find the plug great. But I find soldering these plugs quite difficult, its so small that I often end up melting the plastic inside (succeeded this time though). Especially since the stock plug was destroyed when I tried to open, so I had to cut the cable and just had 4 wires  and had to figure out which were right and which were left by trial and error. You can figure out the pairs (L/R) with a multimeter (ohms), but I don't know how to measure which are grounds and which not so I just try all the combinations. You need to put some solder on the ends of the wires before you can get contact (or maybe just burn "something" off them with the iron), it confused me for some time that I could not get a signal at all. I'm not talking about the outer sleeve here, I removed that of course. 

If anyone knows how to identify the 4 wires uniquely by measuring them please tell the trick  With speakers I believe the trick is to put a small battery on the wires and see if the driver goes in or out, but that's no good here..


----------



## CharlesRievone

ctaxxxx said:


> Maybe in the future. Ordered quite a bit (still waiting on Uairekko custom, and Liebesleid being $250...).
> 
> So for budget buds I have:
> 
> ...


Yincrow X6 and Vido are too similar. Might as well get only one.
EMX500 is not that similar to the former buds mentioned, so it's worth getting one.

I second the recommendation on NiceHCK PK2.

**** PT15 is another good budget bud, though I doubt you'll like the sig as it's bright.
Another bright sounding alternative would be WE EPK1 (from banned seller).



Saoshyant said:


> @ctaxxxx You should enjoy your Uairekko, he did a great job with both of mine.  He tries really hard to get the sound sig you describe.


As with mine. I love my Uairekko pair to death


----------



## Dark Helmet

knudsen said:


> I bought this, I find the plug great. But I find soldering these plugs quite difficult, its so small that I often end up melting the plastic inside (succeeded this time though). Especially since the stock plug was destroyed when I tried to open, so I had to cut the cable and just had 4 wires  and had to figure out which were right and which were left by trial and error. You can figure out the pairs (L/R) with a multimeter (ohms), but I don't know how to measure which are grounds and which not so I just try all the combinations. You need to put some solder on the ends of the wires before you can get contact (or maybe just burn "something" off them with the iron), it confused me for some time that I could not get a signal at all. I'm not talking about the outer sleeve here, I removed that of course.
> 
> If anyone knows how to identify the 4 wires uniquely by measuring them please tell the trick  With speakers I believe the trick is to put a small battery on the wires and see if the driver goes in or out, but that's no good here..


The balanced version of that plug is a bitch to wire. I just ruined one plug, but did a good job on the other.


----------



## Dark Helmet

CharlesRievone said:


> Yincrow X6 and Vido are too similar. Might as well get only one.
> EMX500 is not that similar to the former buds mentioned, so it's worth getting one.
> 
> I second the recommendation on NiceHCK PK2.
> ...


Does the PT15 have good bass?


----------



## Saoshyant

Dark Helmet said:


> Does the PT15 have good bass?



Nope, budget treble bud


----------



## AkashS04

ricesteam said:


> I've been learning a bit about impedance because I recently picked up an amp with adjustable settings. I found this article helpful: https://nwavguy.blogspot.ca/2011/02/headphone-impedance-explained.html


Thanks. I will go through it. Cannot access this from office :|


----------



## AkashS04

rkw said:


> I didn't say that. Please reread because I chose my words very carefully.


Hmmm. I was listening to Monk+ today instead of Vido, I feel Monk+ is really very flat sounding earbud. Are you aware of any high impedence bud which is having boomy bass and warm sound like 3800 but with Mic?


----------



## CharlesRievone

Dark Helmet said:


> Does the PT15 have good bass?





Saoshyant said:


> Nope, budget treble bud


^ He's right. Very weak bass on the PT15. Definitely not for bassheads.


----------



## CharlesRievone

AkashS04 said:


> Hmmm. I was listening to Monk+ today instead of Vido, I feel Monk+ is really very flat sounding earbud. Are you aware of any high impedence bud which is having boomy bass and warm sound like 3800 but with Mic?


High impedance earphone with mic makes no sense.

Think about it for a second.
An earbud (or headphones/iems/etc) with high impedance implies that it should be driven with an amp. The mic (and volume controls, previous/next buttons, etc) will not work with amps.
An earbud (or headphones/iems/etc) with mic implies that it will be used on mobile phones. Most (if not all) mobile phones have weak output power to drive high impedance equipment.


----------



## ranfan

Currently waiting for my Yuin OK2. It is being reterminated with an Eidolic 3.5-mm (gold) jack. Hope to share initial impression, coming from listening to a DIY PK2


----------



## cqtek

knudsen said:


> I bought this, I find the plug great. But I find soldering these plugs quite difficult, its so small that I often end up melting the plastic inside (succeeded this time though). Especially since the stock plug was destroyed when I tried to open, so I had to cut the cable and just had 4 wires  and had to figure out which were right and which were left by trial and error. You can figure out the pairs (L/R) with a multimeter (ohms), but I don't know how to measure which are grounds and which not so I just try all the combinations. You need to put some solder on the ends of the wires before you can get contact (or maybe just burn "something" off them with the iron), it confused me for some time that I could not get a signal at all. I'm not talking about the outer sleeve here, I removed that of course.
> 
> If anyone knows how to identify the 4 wires uniquely by measuring them please tell the trick  With speakers I believe the trick is to put a small battery on the wires and see if the driver goes in or out, but that's no good here..



I have looked closely at the cable and the EMX500 cable has colors, and there are paired for each earphone. The pair from right earphone has a cable with a little red band, the other cable has no band. The pair from left earphone has a cable with a little blue band (difficult to see), the other cable has no band. Cables with color band are "positive", cables without color band are ground. I think so.

Now I can easily connect to a new plug, when arrive me.


----------



## AkashS04

CharlesRievone said:


> High impedance earphone with mic makes no sense.
> 
> Think about it for a second.
> An earbud (or headphones/iems/etc) with high impedance implies that it should be driven with an amp. The mic (and volume controls, previous/next buttons, etc) will not work with amps.
> An earbud (or headphones/iems/etc) with mic implies that it will be used on mobile phones. Most (if not all) mobile phones have weak output power to drive high impedance equipment.


But I use Mobile Phone only to listen to the song. And use PowerAmp Android Player. I do have Nano 1st gen and 7th gen also but now a day I am finding it difficult to carry two devices and especially if I get call on Mobile and need to talk while I am already using Nano. So for ease of use, I am preferring Mobile phone hence need mic version. Pls suggest if you know any Bassy and warm earbud with mic which is 64 ohms or ideally more.


----------



## siderak

AkashS04 said:


> But I use Mobile Phone only to listen to the song. And use PowerAmp Android Player. I do have Nano 1st gen and 7th gen also but now a day I am finding it difficult to carry two devices and especially if I get call on Mobile and need to talk while I am already using Nano. So for ease of use, I am preferring Mobile phone hence need mic version. Pls suggest if you know any Bassy and warm earbud with mic which is 64 ohms or ideally more.



Get the yincrow x6 with mic. You'll be happy. 
It's 32ohms but who cares? 
They're built well and sound great.


----------



## knudsen (Jul 6, 2017)

cqtek said:


> I have looked closely at the cable and the EMX500 cable has colors, and there are paired for each earphone. The pair from right earphone has a cable with a little red band, the other cable has no band. The pair from left earphone has a cable with a little blue band (difficult to see), the other cable has no band. Cables with color band are "positive", cables without color band are ground. I think so.


Sounds great, though unfortunately I cannot see it

I managed to unscrew my other pair, only to arrive at some black stuff that seems like its not meant ever to be removed. Its also clear there is no screw mecanism at all, the shell is just fitting firmly on this black stuff, and maybe glued on to it


----------



## WayTooCrazy

@knudsen Hard to see, but how many cables actually go into the 3.5mm plug?


----------



## knudsen

WayTooCrazy said:


> @knudsen Hard to see, but how many cables actually go into the 3.5mm plug?


There are 4 so I was a bit unlucky with the image


----------



## Ira Delphic

ctaxxxx said:


> Decided to replace Yincrow X6 with the DIY PK2 for my final order. Will be interesting to see how these scale compared to TOTL buds.



I love my two sets of DIY PK2. Interesting to read what  you think. 

Also, there's a seller of DIY EMX500 here. With and without mic. One version has silver cable and black shell, around USD$10 . I know nothing about this seller - Hangrui...


----------



## Ira Delphic (Jul 6, 2017)

CharlesRievone said:


> High impedance earphone with mic makes no sense.
> 
> Think about it for a second.
> An earbud (or headphones/iems/etc) with high impedance implies that it should be driven with an amp. The mic (and volume controls, previous/next buttons, etc) will not work with amps.
> An earbud (or headphones/iems/etc) with mic implies that it will be used on mobile phones. Most (if not all) mobile phones have weak output power to drive high impedance equipment.



I agree that mic used with mobile phones makes no sense ( maybe not much sense), but some phones have high impedence DAC - V10, V20, Axon 7, Axon 7 mini, etc.
I avoid earbuds with mic anyway. An exception in the MP with one button/mic. It works excellent with phone - voice quality and ergonomics.


----------



## AkashS04

siderak said:


> Get the yincrow x6 with mic. You'll be happy.
> It's 32ohms but who cares?
> They're built well and sound great.


To the best of my knowledge, Yincrow X6 does not have Mic option. I heard about it that it is very well in Bass department and have nice sound as well. But another thing is that will it be able to handle the Extreme Bass setting I use in PowerAmp?


----------



## WayTooCrazy

knudsen said:


> There are 4 so I was a bit unlucky with the image



Where you trying to Balance the cable?


----------



## AkashS04

Ira Delphic said:


> I agree that mic used with mobile phones makes no sense ( maybe not much sense), but some phones have high impedence DAC - V10, V20, Axon 7, Axon 7 mini, etc.
> I avoid earbuds with mic anyway. An exception in the MP with one button/mic. It works excellent with phone - voice quality and ergonomics.


I feel that high impedence buds are working fine with my settings. Used Monk+ for a while and it did not distort or sound broken membrane speaker. But then I do not like Monk+ sound so want something which is warm and have boominess in bass. Monk+ does not have bass at all.


----------



## AkashS04

What is the best way to change 3.5" Pin of the earbud? I feel changing it might work in case of broke my SHE3800 as when I insert and adjust and hold it, both speakers work.


----------



## knudsen

WayTooCrazy said:


> Where you trying to Balance the cable?


Sorry, don't know what that would imply so probably not?  I don't have a balanced dap. The challenge for me is to identify the 2 grounds out of the 4, I don't see those colors as cqtek does. 

I've replaced the jack on my 2 EMX500, one with rhodium and one with gold (no longer on Ali but the small version of these, paid 5,5$. Probably fake but maybe gold). Tested the phase and L/R and all is fine. When comparing first L-L and later R-R (with a full sine sweep) the rhodium one has clearly more level in what I believe is upper mids/lower treble. Same frequency area with both sides. Since I don't think the drivers are matched at this price I'm leaning towards the rhodium jack has an effect in this area (which I believe others have said before me - for example with Edimun)


----------



## WayTooCrazy

knudsen said:


> Sorry, don't know what that would imply so probably not?  I don't have a balanced dap. The challenge for me is to identify the 2 grounds out of the 4, I don't see those colors as cqtek does.
> 
> I've replaced the jack on my 2 EMX500, one with rhodium and one with gold (no longer on Ali but the small version of these, paid 5,5$. Probably fake but maybe gold). Tested the phase and L/R and all is fine. When comparing first L-L and later R-R (with a full sine sweep) the rhodium one has clearly more level in what I believe is upper mids/lower treble. Same frequency area with both sides. Since I don't think the drivers are matched at this price I'm leaning towards the rhodium jack has an effect in this area (which I believe others have said before me - for example with Edimun)



Sorry, came in the middle of a conversation... me and my nosy self. Though, that is an awesome find! I have used the ViaBlue prior, and not entirely sure what the love affair was. They're cool, a pain to work with and build quality seems to be somewhat on-par with Ranko Acoustics for the most part (though, priced at 10x more). Rhodium though is something I would like to try if everyone is saying that the plug material is that much better.


----------



## knudsen

WayTooCrazy said:


> Sorry, came in the middle of a conversation... me and my nosy self. Though, that is an awesome find! I have used the ViaBlue prior, and not entirely sure what the love affair was. They're cool, a pain to work with and build quality seems to be somewhat on-par with Ranko Acoustics for the most part (though, priced at 10x more). Rhodium though is something I would like to try if everyone is saying that the plug material is that much better.


Agree, probably not gonna buy viablue again... I destroyed one of mine, too damn small inside. That said I might prefer it to the rhodium one in my setup because of the synergy with zishan z1 and emx500, it is more relaxed, but I think the stock jack was similar so seems not worth it. But I'm open to other causes, my viablue being fake and of lousy quality, the chinese in fact pairing the drivers, or just plain randomness  But I believe I've seen Vapman and Danneq say the same about rhodium. I can hear some differences in the bass too (more with rhodium), but they are smaller and not as evident


----------



## cqtek

Is not a very good image, but I think is possible to see the different color bands in the EMX500 cable:


 

I have in mind to buy some of this plugs, because there are easy to solder:

https://es.aliexpress.com/store/pro...lder/525200_32731443916.html?isOrigTitle=true

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/High...e-Jack-Plug/32792990188.html?isOrigTitle=true

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/10x-...lectric-Sol/32790998118.html?isOrigTitle=true


----------



## Merlin-PT

This would be useful at the DIY thread: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/


----------



## siderak

AkashS04 said:


> To the best of my knowledge, Yincrow X6 does not have Mic option. I heard about it that it is very well in Bass department and have nice sound as well. But another thing is that will it be able to handle the Extreme Bass setting I use in PowerAmp?



I bought mine with a mic. 

Look what I found on AliExpress
http://s.aliexpress.com/vIZbQNZr

You have to select the  with mic option. 

Maybe try it without the extreme bass. You might like it. 
At any rate you sound like you might consider being REALLY careful with volumes and bass levels. 
You WILL get hearing loss otherwise.


----------



## rkw

knudsen said:


> I had to cut the cable and just had 4 wires  and had to figure out which were right and which were left by trial and error.
> ...
> If anyone knows how to identify the 4 wires uniquely by measuring them please tell the trick


Too late to do it after you've cut the entire cable, but it is better to cut only one wire at a time, and test which ring on the plug that wire is connected to.


----------



## AkashS04

siderak said:


> I bought mine with a mic.
> 
> Look what I found on AliExpress
> http://s.aliexpress.com/vIZbQNZr
> ...


Thnx. But do you also know any bud with high impedence which is having good bass response and warm? I might buy these anyway.


----------



## Dark Helmet

knudsen said:


> Agree, probably not gonna buy viablue again... I destroyed one of mine, too damn small inside. That said I might prefer it to the rhodium one in my setup because of the synergy with zishan z1 and emx500, it is more relaxed, but I think the stock jack was similar so seems not worth it. But I'm open to other causes, my viablue being fake and of lousy quality, the chinese in fact pairing the drivers, or just plain randomness  But I believe I've seen Vapman and Danneq say the same about rhodium. I can hear some differences in the bass too (more with rhodium), but they are smaller and not as evident


Are you comparing the sound difference from memory or do you have a stock EMX500?


----------



## knudsen

Dark Helmet said:


> Are you comparing the sound difference from memory or do you have a stock EMX500?


The note on the stock was from memory yes, otherwise I am comparing the 2 upgraded ones which I have. But this difference I heard is also up in the highest mids or the highs so won't give any lift to voices etc. (which I believe you or someone else have been wanting)


----------



## Dark Helmet

knudsen said:


> The note on the stock was from memory yes, otherwise I am comparing the 2 upgraded ones which I have. But this difference I heard is also up in the highest mids or the highs so won't give any lift to voices etc. (which I believe you or someone else have been wanting)


I want faster and more prominent low mids out of the EMX500.  I prefer the PK2 much more after break in.  I have found that they have changed the most out of any earbud I have.  They went from one of my least favorite to my favorite.


----------



## chaiyuta

Merlin-PT said:


> This would be useful at the DIY thread: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/


It seems like this thread become DIY thread after "Vido sounds similar Campfred" issue. lol


----------



## AkashS04

Is there any review on YinCrow X6? I cannot find any and new site does not seem to have any option to see only reviews when you search.


----------



## Saoshyant

Thanks to @noknok23 for the trade, I finally got the Cypherus Blue Darth in my hands and am getting my initial listen just now.  I'm having a hard time telling whether it or the CampFred handles bass better to my ears, at least on the test track I'm using.  I also apparently wasn't aware it was 2.5mm balanced, so that was a pleasant surprise.


----------



## AkashS04

AkashS04 said:


> Is there any review on YinCrow X6? I cannot find any and new site does not seem to have any option to see only reviews when you search.


I found one review. @BloodyPenguin  provided the review for Yincrow X6. He mentioned that the sound is more or less similar to Vido, so my question is if it is worth spending 3 times money in X6 if it is like Vido? In favt the have same impedence so I will not be benefited in that too.


----------



## AkashS04

Did anyone try these: https://goo.gl/haJwmT

Any review or comment or comparison with Vido/ YinCrow or ideally with SHE3800? Buld wise looks good but not sure abt sound.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Saoshyant said:


> Thanks to @noknok23 for the trade, I finally got the Cypherus Blue Darth in my hands and am getting my initial listen just now.  I'm having a hard time telling whether it or the CampFred handles bass better to my ears, at least on the test track I'm using.  I also apparently wasn't aware it was 2.5mm balanced, so that was a pleasant surprise.



Interested in hearing your thoughts. I can't decide how I feel about those buds. Signature is dark, and the bass is different from other bass-focused buds I've heard. Maybe I need to stop treating them as basshead buds, and approach them differently.


----------



## Saoshyant

ctaxxxx said:


> Interested in hearing your thoughts. I can't decide how I feel about those buds. Signature is dark, and the bass is different from other bass-focused buds I've heard. Maybe I need to stop treating them as basshead buds, and approach them differently.



If you're purely going for a basshead route, there are better options, like the Svara L.  So far, I find them very enjoyable, I think I just had to get out of the basshead mindset as I think I was expecting too much for their bassier bud.  Plus, no basshead bud is going to have vocals this nice either.  I really feel enveloped in the music, which at times is quite an enjoyable feel.  I have a feeling that their main benefit over CF is they will most likely turn out to be more forgiving depending on the album I'm listening to.  Actually, I should test that out right now.

I'll also have CampFred 2 hopefully arriving Saturday, so I hope I don't immediately forget about the Blue Darth once I get those in ear.


----------



## noknok23

Ha, very nice to read you are having a nice time with them. Will definitely give feedback on yours when I am back of holiday.


----------



## Saoshyant

noknok23 said:


> Ha, very nice to read you are having a nice time with them. Will definitely give feedback on yours when I am back of holiday.



Hope your trip in Taiwan is going well, and make sure to find some great audio equipment while there.  Thanks again!


----------



## audio123

https://penonaudio.com/OURART-Ti7

one of the best earbuds in 2017.
go give them a try guys. 
impressive soundstage and lush mids.


----------



## golov17

Saoshyant said:


> Thanks to @noknok23 for the trade, I finally got the Cypherus Blue Darth in my hands and am getting my initial listen just now.  I'm having a hard time telling whether it or the CampFred handles bass better to my ears, at least on the test track I'm using.  I also apparently wasn't aware it was 2.5mm balanced, so that was a pleasant surprise.


How it vs beta Asura?


----------



## Saoshyant

golov17 said:


> How it vs beta Asura?



Never heard any of the Asura sadly, I'd love to correct that one day.


----------



## Mahathera

audio123 said:


> https://penonaudio.com/OURART-Ti7
> 
> one of the best earbuds in 2017.
> go give them a try guys.
> impressive soundstage and lush mids.



Some review said bass is too thin almost too nothing. Could you share your impression on that man? Thx in advance


----------



## audio123

Mahathera said:


> Some review said bass is too thin almost too nothing. Could you share your impression on that man? Thx in advance


i will do a review soon mate. cheers.


----------



## Ira Delphic (Jul 7, 2017)

audio123 said:


> https://penonaudio.com/OURART-Ti7
> 
> one of the best earbuds in 2017.
> go give them a try guys.
> impressive soundstage and lush mids.



Would you consider OURART-Ti7 to be TOTL? But what does TOTL mean anyway these days? The Vido could be considered, based on some impressions here, to be  TOTL (excluding build and component quality - cable, plug, etc). In my opinion, the DIY PK2 isn't far from TOTL.


----------



## noknok23

I have a love/hate relationship with the ps600. At first they where boring, then pretty nice. Then Dull and hollow. And now I am so impressed and love them more than ever before. They are maybe the best I own in technical terms. Truth is, over the time, I kept improving my sources and so does it's sound. So yes, puresound 600 offer an incredible sq. Imo real totl no jokes (vs CF1 and Seahf650 I can say sidegrade if not upgrade depending on taste and sources). But you need a lot lot of power and a very clean source at the same time to make it shine. Currently using zishan z1+burson v5i and it's sounds incredible thought a tad too rough (cold/bright). I like it a lot but have to admit it's not the usual hifi sound. Finally I feel the high extended, and the sound is not too soft and polite like it used to be with the signetic 5532. When my burson v5i was only half burned in, the ps600 were the only one that would make it so obvious I thought they were the one to blame. It speaks about how transparent they are and how well they can scale. I still feel like I do not use them on their full potential. On a side note, build quality is tight and I like their semi stiff cable. Shell and cable has a beautiful shade of transparent black with purple drivers and silver plated cables. Very low-key but subtle. Imo exactly what I am looking for with high-end earbuds fashion wise.. I find their cable more convenient to use than braided cables thought seems to be prone to stress more easily and have a bit of memory.
I use them either with thin mk+ foam for more balanced sound or naked for a more airy sound
When I'll receive the Yinman 600 I'll make a comparison. It might be interesting.


----------



## Dark Helmet

Mahathera said:


> Some review said bass is too thin almost too nothing. Could you share your impression on that man? Thx in advance


There is little to no bass.  I was told to burn in for 300hrs and then there will be lots of bass. LOL. OK we will see.  I probably have around 50-70 hours on them and nothing has really changed.  Tough for me to get a good seal also that may be part of the reason.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Saoshyant said:


> If you're purely going for a basshead route, there are better options, like the Svara L.  So far, I find them very enjoyable, I think I just had to get out of the basshead mindset as I think I was expecting too much for their bassier bud.  Plus, no basshead bud is going to have vocals this nice either.  I really feel enveloped in the music, which at times is quite an enjoyable feel.  I have a feeling that their main benefit over CF is they will most likely turn out to be more forgiving depending on the album I'm listening to.  Actually, I should test that out right now.
> 
> I'll also have CampFred 2 hopefully arriving Saturday, so I hope I don't immediately forget about the Blue Darth once I get those in ear.



I'm listening to the Blue Darth again now. I think I enjoy these a lot more with softer music or older rock, instead of pop or other bass-heavy genres. The tonality suits those songs better I believe. I'll have to revise my write-up, again. I wonder if this is what the ZMF Atticus sounds like, because I've read the signature being described similar to these.

I still think my model has a channel imbalance though... Hear more bass in the right still and that ear is starting to ring...


----------



## siderak

Got my CAX Campfred 2's! 
Without yet burning in, they are impressive.
V shaped but mids are highly resolved. 
These go down way low and extend high on top. 
Very wide soundstage and excellent detail.
Extremely fun and addictive sound!
Im looking forward to how they settle after burn in.


----------



## chaiyuta (Jul 7, 2017)

noknok23 said:


> I have a love/hate relationship with the ps600. At first they where boring, then pretty nice. Then Dull and hollow. And now I am so impressed and love them more than ever before. They are maybe the best I own in technical terms. Truth is, over the time, I kept improving my sources and so does it's sound. So yes, puresound 600 offer an incredible sq. Imo real totl no jokes (vs CF1 and Seahf650 I can say sidegrade if not upgrade depending on taste and sources). But you need a lot lot of power and a very clean source at the same time to make it shine. Currently using zishan z1+burson v5i and it's sounds incredible thought a tad too rough (cold/bright). I like it a lot but have to admit it's not the usual hifi sound. Finally I feel the high extended, and the sound is not too soft and polite like it used to be with the signetic 5532. When my burson v5i was only half burned in, the ps600 were the only one that would make it so obvious I thought they were the one to blame. It speaks about how transparent they are and how well they can scale. I still feel like I do not use them on their full potential. On a side note, build quality is tight and I like their semi stiff cable. Shell and cable has a beautiful shade of transparent black with purple drivers and silver plated cables. Very low-key but subtle. Imo exactly what I am looking for with high-end earbuds fashion wise.. I find their cable more convenient to use than braided cables thought seems to be prone to stress more easily and have a bit of memory.
> I use them either with thin mk+ foam for more balanced sound or naked for a more airy sound
> When I'll receive the Yinman 600 I'll make a comparison. It might be interesting.


I thinks the bright tonality might be come from thier own stock SPC cable. I listened comparison between PS100-500Pop (SPC) and PS100-600S (600-core Copper). PS100-600S has less "-ch -sh -th" emphasis than PS100-500Pop. My PS100-600Pop burn-in might be around 100hours pass, so more several hours need to go more. I also interested on a balanced AMP (NEW HUM Hypno balanced) and would like to see how SQ improvement when using a AMP device if I can find demo in a local shop first. haha. And Yes, I likes the purple-tint driver too, it looks unique.

(EDITED : PS100-64 (Copper) also has less "-ch -sh -th" emphasis than PS100-500Pop.


----------



## golov17

chaiyuta said:


> I thinks the bright tonality might be come from thier own stock SPC cable. I listened comparison between PS100-500Pop (SPC) and PS100-600S (600-core Copper). PS100-600S has less "-ch -sh -th" emphasis than PS100-500Pop. My PS100-600Pop burn-in might be around 100hours pass, so more several hours need to go more. I also interested on a balanced AMP (NEW HUM Hypno balanced) and would like to see how SQ improvement when using a AMP device if I can find demo in a local shop first. haha. And Yes, I likes the purple-tint driver too, it looks unique.
> 
> (EDITED : PS100-64 (Copper) also has less "-ch -sh -th" emphasis than PS100-500Pop.


PS500 Classic, in general, does not have these problems


----------



## Mahathera

Dark Helmet said:


> There is little to no bass.  I was told to burn in for 300hrs and then there will be lots of bass. LOL. OK we will see.  I probably have around 50-70 hours on them and nothing has really changed.  Tough for me to get a good seal also that may be part of the reason.



Haha...well i hope it gets better the more burn-in hour you give. Seems in earbud burn-in really make a difference. My diy pk2 definitely was thin sounding, bright and a bit harsh sounding. Now it gets more fuller in sound, no more harsh (with foam) and bass hits nice.

I am hoping ourart will get better in sq. I like that build...metal. strong for my daily abuse and use


----------



## chaiyuta

golov17 said:


> PS500 Classic, in general, does not have these problems


PS100-500Pop is not heavy sibilant at all. Since I am treble-sensitive than ordinary guy. Just want to tell that 500Pop is neutral with a little bit bright which is not a 'problem' level at all.


----------



## noknok23

You lost me, puresound has too many earbuds very close to each other lol.

 Sound is on the bright side but I do not suffer from sibilance. Or perhaps a little bit on lofi recordings


----------



## Dark Helmet

Mahathera said:


> Haha...well i hope it gets better the more burn-in hour you give. Seems in earbud burn-in really make a difference. My diy pk2 definitely was thin sounding, bright and a bit harsh sounding. Now it gets more fuller in sound, no more harsh (with foam) and bass hits nice.
> 
> I am hoping ourart will get better in sq. I like that build...metal. strong for my daily abuse and use


PK2 has made the biggest improvements with burn in than any other earbud I have.


----------



## nhlean96 (Jul 8, 2017)

Ok, got my MX98 and HE 150ohms today, here's my impression about both:

- Boarseman MX98 is the previous flagship earbud of Boarseman brand (current flagship is MX98S which price is double), I bought them for just $12. It look beatifully, shiny, clear red shell feels very solid, no flaws could be seen. Cable is very good, flexible, excellent strain relief.  I would say It's the best looking MX500 shell I've seen. Accessory is very decent too, came with medium size case (which is very nice + some pairs of foam), the box is made from MDF (cheap wood). Really can't complain anything provided the price ($12 plus shipping). The sound quality is mostly fun signature, with emphasized midbass (OOTB, could be improved after burning), deep subbass, laidback midrange, the treble is nice. Soundstage is not too wide, fall behind the HE 150.
- HE 150,  came with a few pairs of foam, a small case. Decent build quality, the shell is identical to VE Monk (1st gen), with thicker cable, it feels very good, L-shape jack (best type of jack IMO).The best thing about it is the 150 ohms drivers (high quality drivers, same as those 150 ohms of TY Hi-Z). The sound quality is top-notch, a step above the MX98. Neutral sound signature, wide soundstage, punchy bass and the midrange is just right, more forwarding than the MX98. Treble is well done, with sparkles, and sibilance is nearly zero (low quality drivers likely to distort with hot mixed tracks). For $12, the HE 150 is a no-brainer.


----------



## fairx

nhlean96 said:


> Ok, got my MX98 and HE 150ohms today, here's my impression about both:
> 
> - Boarseman MX98 is the previous flagship earbud of Boarseman brand (current flagship is MX98S which price is double), I bought them for just $12. It look beatifully, shiny, clear red shell feels very solid, no flaws could be seen. Cable is very good, flexible, excellent strain relief.  I would say It's the best looking MX500 shell I've seen. Accessory is very decent too, came with medium size case (which is very nice + some pairs of foam), the box is made from MDF (cheap wood). Really can't complain anything provided the price ($12 plus shipping). The sound quality is mostly fun signature, with emphasized midbass (OOTB, could be improved after burning), deep subbass, laidback midrange, the treble is nice. Soundstage is not too wide, fall behind the HE 150.
> - HE 150,  came with a few pairs of foam, a small case. Decent build quality, the shell is identical to VE Monk (1st gen), with thicker cable, it feels very good, L-shape jack (best type of jack IMO).The best thing about it is the 150 ohms drivers (high quality drivers, same as those 150 ohms of TY Hi-Z). The sound quality is top-notch, a step above the MX98. Neutral sound signature, wide soundstage, punchy bass and the midrange is just right, more forwarding than the MX98. Treble is well done, with sparkles, and sibilance is nearly zero (low quality drivers likely to distort with hot mixed tracks). For $12, the HE 150 is a no-brainer.


thanks. Do you also happened to have comparison between HE150 and eb200?


----------



## Ver JJ

AkashS04 said:


> I found one review. @BloodyPenguin  provided the review for Yincrow X6. He mentioned that the sound is more or less similar to Vido, so my question is if it is worth spending 3 times money in X6 if it is like Vido? In favt the have same impedence so I will not be benefited in that too.



Well the cable of Yincrow X6 in my opinion is better than Vido, also X6's cable is v-shaped compared to j-shaped of vido, unless you love moding cable.


----------



## noknok23

Someone else told me vido and yincrow sounds very different...


----------



## Saoshyant

Too bad you didn't say that 2 weeks ago, I would have included the Yincrow in the delivery so you could try it.  To me, it feels a little redundant with also owning EMX500 & Vido.


----------



## chinmie

Saoshyant said:


> Too bad you didn't say that 2 weeks ago, I would have included the Yincrow in the delivery so you could try it.  To me, it feels a little redundant with also owning EMX500 & Vido.



what is your impression between the EMX500 and vido? which one do you prefer better?


----------



## Saoshyant

chinmie said:


> what is your impression between the EMX500 and vido? which one do you prefer better?



For my preferences, which are bass and vocals with not so much concern for treble, I'll take the EMX500, and made sure to buy a back up pair.  Then again, I own 3 Vido.  Trying to be objective, I don't really see a need to own both unless you need the mic on Vido, or are collecting.  They're both a lot of fun and perform quite nicely for their price, and I don't feel there's a big difference between the two.  The Yincrow is nice too, but with the three, it just doesn't seem to do anything the other two can't accomplish, although the jack is nice vs the straight jack of the other two.


----------



## chinmie

Saoshyant said:


> For my preferences, which are bass and vocals with not so much concern for treble, I'll take the EMX500, and made sure to buy a back up pair.  Then again, I own 3 Vido.  Trying to be objective, I don't really see a need to own both unless you need the mic on Vido, or are collecting.  They're both a lot of fun and perform quite nicely for their price, and I don't feel there's a big difference between the two.  The Yincrow is nice too, but with the three, it just doesn't seem to do anything the other two can't accomplish, although the jack is nice vs the straight jack of the other two.



what a coincidence, i also happen to have 3 vidos 
thank you for your insight, now i think i don't have to lust for the emx500 anymore if they sound not too different.


----------



## Trippin

Would you say the emx500 has better sound than the vido in anyway


----------



## upsguys88 (Jul 8, 2017)

I have a ton of new unused large hooks that I haven't used. Anyone want to trade for the small ones that come with ve Monk ex pack?


----------



## prone2phone

Hope you guys tried Vidos with doughnuts. For me this is next level tasty.  Another dimension.


----------



## knudsen

Saoshyant said:


> For my preferences, which are bass and vocals with not so much concern for treble, I'll take the EMX500, and made sure to buy a back up pair.  Then again, I own 3 Vido.  Trying to be objective, I don't really see a need to own both unless you need the mic on Vido, or are collecting.  They're both a lot of fun and perform quite nicely for their price, and I don't feel there's a big difference between the two.  The Yincrow is nice too, but with the three, it just doesn't seem to do anything the other two can't accomplish, although the jack is nice vs the straight jack of the other two.


Just to give another opinion my ears don't agree, they hear a quite big difference between Vido and emx500. To my ears Vido has a monk-ish sound, emx500 not at all. I prefer emx by far


----------



## actorlife

Anyone try these yet? http://www.ebay.com/itm/272710936071


----------



## springbay

Hmm, I'm so Jelly of the people writing impressions of the Campfred2 and Blue Darth.
Herry posted my parcel 170616. Even if I anticipated that EMS would be a bit slower for this parcel, I looked up the tracking page earlier this week.
Turns out the parcel returned to Indonesia 170705 and now is on it's way again. At least I hope that is what "Departure from outward OE" means.
I think Pos Indonesia should at least offer to take care of the burn in process if they're going to hold my buds this long.

To calm me I'm using XDuoo X3 -> Walnut V2/Burson V5i-D -> Seahf Smart 1.0, listening to

That way I'm in no hurry to get anything delivered. So very calming.


----------



## Saoshyant

springbay said:


> Hmm, I'm so Jelly of the people writing impressions of the Campfred2 and Blue Darth.
> Herry posted my parcel 170616. Even if I anticipated that EMS would be a bit slower for this parcel, I looked up the tracking page earlier this week.
> Turns out the parcel returned to Indonesia 170705 and now is on it's way again. At least I hope that is what "Departure from outward OE" means.
> I think Pos Indonesia should at least offer to take care of the burn in process if they're going to hold my buds this long.
> ...




I really do like my Smart 1.0, tons of fun to listen to, but very hungry.  Wow, I have gone so long since I've used my X3 I actually forgot I own it.  Maybe it's time to find it a new home.


----------



## Narayan23

The Vsonic VSD1 Pi look pretty good, does anyone have some more info about them?

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...32815528565.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.DceTYM


----------



## CharlesRievone

knudsen said:


> Just to give another opinion my ears don't agree, they hear a quite big difference between Vido and emx500. To my ears Vido has a monk-ish sound, emx500 not at all. I prefer emx by far


I agree that Vido and EMX500 does not sound similar at all. Vido's bass goes lower than EMX500, while Vido's treble is rolled-off compared to the extended highs on EMX500.

In simple terms comparing only these two:
Vido = Warm + Sweet
EMX500 = U-Shaped

I don't agree, however, that Vido has a similar sound to Monks


----------



## golov17

New arrival Walnut E1 In-ear Earphones Flat Head Plug DIY Earphone HiFi Bass Earbuds for Walnut V2/V2S Zishan Z1/Z2
http://s.aliexpress.com/faQBBf26


----------



## Saoshyant

CharlesRievone said:


> I agree that Vido and EMX500 does not sound similar at all. Vido's bass goes lower than EMX500, while Vido's treble is rolled-off compared to the extended highs on EMX500.
> 
> In simple terms comparing only these two:
> Vido = Warm + Sweet
> ...



I don't find the bass on Monk+ similar to Vido, which to my ears is the strength of the Vido.  A strength to my ears shared by EMX500.  The Monk has a bit, albeit not huge, less bass in this respect.

Everyone hears differently.


----------



## AkashS04

Any suggestion how to change the plug of the earbud? I feel that changing the plug might make my SHE3800 working again. Should I just cut the existing one but then how to fix the new one in the cable?


----------



## ClieOS (Jul 10, 2017)

AkashS04 said:


> Any suggestion how to change the plug of the earbud? I feel that changing the plug might make my SHE3800 working again. Should I just cut the existing one *but then how to fix the new one in the cable?*



Learn to solder?


----------



## AkashS04

ClieOS said:


> Learn to solder?



I know it is not very difficult but starting that it difficult for me


----------



## knudsen

Saoshyant said:


> I don't find the bass on Monk+ similar to Vido, which to my ears is the strength of the Vido.  A strength to my ears shared by EMX500.  The Monk has a bit, albeit not huge, less bass in this respect.
> 
> Everyone hears differently.


I've never meant to say that vido sounds as monk, nor that the bass is on the same level, I only tried to say that vido reminds me somewhat of monk probably because of the mids and highs. Vido has much more bass surely.

I've once again tested 2 emx500 and 2 vidos against each other, and to my ears emx500 still have more bass below 40Hz (-> 20). Vido have more bass higher up, which all in all makes the bass less attractive to me.

But I agree we all hear differently, and that they both have solid bass  Also there is clearly some variation between the same models.

Looking forward to if slappypete can measure the emx, even though the bass part is the most unmeasureable


----------



## slappypete

@knudsen I'm still waiting on the emx to show up in the mail. Starting to think it isn't coming. I might have to order another from a different seller.


----------



## Ver JJ (Jul 10, 2017)

Edit: Wrong post.


----------



## nhlean96 (Jul 10, 2017)

HE 150ohms, best budget earbud for metalhead. Tight and controlled bass, neutral midrange, extended treble.


----------



## Dark Helmet

CharlesRievone said:


> I agree that Vido and EMX500 does not sound similar at all. Vido's bass goes lower than EMX500, while Vido's treble is rolled-off compared to the extended highs on EMX500.
> 
> In simple terms comparing only these two:
> Vido = Warm + Sweet
> ...


Are these stock Vido's? Does treble increase with cable mod?


----------



## golov17

http://s.aliexpress.com/faQBBf26


----------



## kurtextrem

ClieOS, what do you say about the OURART Ti7?


----------



## CharlesRievone

Dark Helmet said:


> Are these stock Vido's? Does treble increase with cable mod?


Yep, stock Vido. I don't have any recabled ones to try yet so i cant say if the cable change would matter that much.


----------



## PT7673

knudsen said:


> I've never meant to say that vido sounds as monk, nor that the bass is on the same level, I only tried to say that vido reminds me somewhat of monk probably because of the mids and highs. Vido has much more bass surely.
> 
> I've once again tested 2 emx500 and 2 vidos against each other, and to my ears emx500 still have more bass below 40Hz (-> 20). Vido have more bass higher up, which all in all makes the bass less attractive to me.
> 
> ...



I agreed with you emx500 bass go down lower and the treble extend higher.(high sound a little bright and thin) and Sound stage is bigger from my hearing.

But Vido has more punch in sound, more energy, more fun which I can listen to them all day.


----------



## gearup

Does anyone still buckle up with an iphone ear piece like me? ... it still bring me the most comfort and adequate sound quality


----------



## fairx (Jul 11, 2017)

Guys I just trade my vido with this Sony. Anybody know what sony it is? The cable is super short I'm thinking recable. I like it without foam. A bit forward sounding overall with prominent highs.

Edit. After a bit of asking in FB group its actually Sony Mdr-e0931 model.


----------



## Narayan23

gearup said:


> Does anyone still buckle up with an iphone ear piece like me? ... it still bring me the most comfort and adequate sound quality



No.


----------



## ClieOS (Jul 11, 2017)

kurtextrem said:


> ClieOS, what do you say about the OURART Ti7?



I haven't really made up my mind on its sound yet, but I think it should be a solid 2nd to 3rd tier and overall, pretty good value for the price. The only thing I don't like about it is its design - the driver housing is a little on the balky side and won't fit small ear, plus the boxy design on the back means you can't push them too close to the ears. Also, I don't like the stock cable that much - don't get me wrong, i do think it is a nice cable, but it is not easy to get the right angle where the earbud will give the most optimum seal. So far I can only say there is great potential for OURART, but Ti7 is an impressive first-timer earbud with some minor flaws.


----------



## KookaBurrra

After buying a lot (very lot) of earbuds, I just keep : Vido / Monk+ / Yinman 2.0-150 and TY Hi-Z HP-650... I going to recable Vido/Monk+/Yinman150 because of these cheap cables and "la vie est belle". 

Thanks all in this topic for help and advices !!


----------



## Ver JJ

KookaBurrra said:


> After buying a lot (very lot) of earbuds, I just keep : Vido / Monk+ / Yinman 2.0-150 and TY Hi-Z HP-650... I going to recable Vido/Monk+/Yinman150 because of these cheap cables and "la vie est belle".
> 
> Thanks all in this topic for help and advices !!



Me too but I had put it on a halt because I am saving my money up for DAPs.


----------



## Mahathera

Ver JJ said:


> Me too but I had put it on a halt because I am saving my money up for DAPs.


Which DAP on your radar bro?


----------



## AkashS04

gearup said:


> Does anyone still buckle up with an iphone ear piece like me? ... it still bring me the most comfort and adequate sound quality


I agree with you. But Apple Earbuds which used to come with iPod Nano 1 and 2 and not the one which came later. Comfort wise, they are one of the best.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Looks like I'm getting Moondrop Liebesleid today! The budget buds (except EMX500) are expected to arrive Monday too. 

I'm surprised how fast ePacket is. I don't see the point in paying extra for EMS anymore when it takes just as long (~2 weeks)... Especially when it isn't nearly as fast as EMS from Japan (3-5 days).

Ordered Hiegi donut foams too. CampFred 2 being the first earbud where I might prefer donuts over thin foams.


----------



## Saoshyant

ctaxxxx said:


> Looks like I'm getting Moondrop Liebesleid today! The budget buds (except EMX500) are expected to arrive Monday too.
> 
> I'm surprised how fast ePacket is. I don't see the point in paying extra for EMS anymore when it takes just as long (~2 weeks)... Especially when it isn't nearly as fast as EMS from Japan (3-5 days).
> 
> Ordered Hiegi donut foams too. CampFred 2 being the first earbud where I might prefer donuts over thin foams.



Hmm, let me know on the perceived changes after you go to heigi please.  Mine are hiding from me or else I'd just give it a try, but I'll find em soon enough.


----------



## audio123

https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/ourart-ti7.22520/reviews

the review many of you are waiting for!


----------



## golov17




----------



## the diode

golov17 said:


>



One of those times I wish I had lots of extra money just lying around and not know what to do with, lol.


----------



## Makahl (Jul 12, 2017)

golov17 said:


>



Geez, it'll be expensive. Probably VE Nirvana will be the first earbud hitting the $1000 spot w/ some exotic cable version. Although, IMO I'd buy a standard Zen 2 and recable it since there's nothing different regarding the tuning.

Edit: Well, nvm. It'll be exclusive only to Zen 2 owners, at least for now.


----------



## AkashS04

golov17 said:


>


White and Transparent colour Looks really very beautiful. But if they already doubled the price, then I guess very very expensive just to give extra $150 only for colour. Especially when the earbud lacks Bass completely.


----------



## Mahathera

AkashS04 said:


> White and Transparent colour Looks really very beautiful. But if they already doubled the price, then I guess very very expensive just to give extra $150 only for colour. Especially when the earbud lacks Bass completely.



From what I know Zen 2 lineup has warm signature...not Akash-warm level .....but warm


----------



## ctaxxxx

golov17 said:


>



That's crazy. I already thought the Zen black was expensive enough. That either must be one hell of a cable, or one hell of a markup...


----------



## AkashS04

Mahathera said:


> From what I know Zen 2 lineup has warm signature...not Akash-warm level .....but warm



But I feel it will be pure foolishness to give $150 only for colour.


----------



## golov17

ctaxxxx said:


> That's crazy. I already thought the Zen black was expensive enough. That either must be one hell of a cable, or one hell of a markup...


Furukawa 4N pure silver


----------



## Mahathera

AkashS04 said:


> But I feel it will be pure foolishness to give $150 only for colour.



My wallet agree with you. But I will keep an open mind in case they are truly something.


----------



## AkashS04

Mahathera said:


> My wallet agree with you. But I will keep an open mind in case they are truly something.


Until you listen to them for good 4-5 songs and convinced that the price justify the quality, it won't be good idea to keep even an open mind


----------



## one1speed

AkashS04 said:


> White and Transparent colour Looks really very beautiful. But if they already doubled the price, then I guess very very expensive just to give extra $150 only for colour. Especially when the earbud lacks Bass completely.



Have you heard it? I highly doubt it lacks bass, probably has plenty of kick for those who prefer their bass as the musician intends. Either way, it's double the cost of the Black model, which costs around $350. I'm afraid the additional $150 won't get any of us close to these.


----------



## AkashS04

one1speed said:


> Have you heard it? I highly doubt it lacks bass, probably has plenty of kick for those who prefer their bass as the musician intends. Either way, it's double the cost of the Black model, which costs around $350. I'm afraid the additional $150 won't get any of us close to these.


It is well beyond my budget. If it is $350 for black colour, then it is at least 19-20 times of my most possible budget range.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Listening to Moondrop Liebesleid before I burn them for a bit. 

...THESE THINGS ARE AMAZING! 

I need to listen to them some more after burn, but I can easily see this taking 3rd in my list of top 5 from Shozy BK. I love the signature of these! 



ClieOS said:


> If you are asking me whether it is $80~100 better sounding than BK, then the answer is 'no'. They are more or less at the same level of SQ.  But if you ask me whether I'll buy it after the fact, then the answer is 'yes'. The SQ and build quality do justify the cost for me.



The sound signature is close, but the Liebesleid tilts in the opposite direction. Less sibilance, more fullness on the bottom end, and much better lower mids. They both are somewhat neutral, but Shozy BK leans to a brighter sound, and Liebesleid to a warmer sound. I feel that Liebesleid as an edge over the BK though in overall performance. Everything sounds a little bit more realistic on the Liebesleid. Maybe it's the tonality... or imaging... Still not good at identifying these things...


----------



## ricesteam

I sent my Monk original a few months ago to Abnormal Sounds. It finally came back as Diomnes Lv2! 

I like it a lot so far.  Impressive soundstage and clarity. The build quality is top notch.  My only complaint is the stiff cables. 

I wish I had another pair of the original Monk to do an A/B comparison.


----------



## chaiyuta

ricesteam said:


> I sent my Monk original a few months ago to Abnormal Sounds. It finally came back as Diomnes Lv2!
> 
> I like it a lot so far.  Impressive soundstage and clarity. The build quality is top notch.  My only complaint is the stiff cables.
> 
> I wish I had another pair of the original Monk to do an A/B comparison.



Is its cable springy ?


----------



## golov17 (Jul 13, 2017)

15.4 mm Graphene driver unit (this is the most important, the driver unit determines the sound quality)
Amazing sound!
Wear very comfortable ..
20Ω impedance, it is very easy to drive.
$ 21 for frist 35 buyers!
https://goo.gl/dDwnA3


----------



## golov17

@mochill , where are you??


----------



## Fabi

Marriage


----------



## AkashS04

ricesteam said:


> I sent my Monk original a few months ago to Abnormal Sounds. It finally came back as Diomnes Lv2!
> 
> I like it a lot so far.  Impressive soundstage and clarity. The build quality is top notch.  My only complaint is the stiff cables.
> 
> I wish I had another pair of the original Monk to do an A/B comparison.


You are saying that you got $150 earbud as replacement of Monk which is $5?


----------



## AkashS04

golov17 said:


> 15.4 mm Graphene driver unit (this is the most important, the driver unit determines the sound quality)
> Amazing sound!
> Wear very comfortable ..
> 20Ω impedance, it is very easy to drive.
> ...


Cable colour looks weird though. Also, no Mic  How is the sound otherwise? If it fits well with my iPod, I might try again without Mic. For iPod, I need something which can add some tonality in iPod sound and also have thumping bass and warmness.


----------



## golov17

AkashS04 said:


> Cable colour looks weird though. Also, no Mic  How is the sound otherwise? If it fits well with my iPod, I might try again without Mic. For iPod, I need something which can add some tonality in iPod sound and also have thumping bass and warmness.


Buy Zishan or Walnut


----------



## AkashS04

golov17 said:


> Buy Zishan or Walnut


iPod is very small so it really does not feel at all that you are carrying anything else. But I am now more into PowerAmp but in between I listen to iPod. But since I accidentally replaced my original iPod nano 1st Gen with  7th gen and then again bought one from ebay, I never felt that kind of sound ever  And no Earbud is actually giving me that feeling at all  PowerAmp is good but looks it need really powerful buds which can handle any level of Bass settings. But the issue is that all high impedence buds do not have Mic  And the one with mic are not good in sound and no bass or warmness like Monk+


----------



## AkashS04

golov17 said:


> Buy Zishan or Walnut


You know any High Impedence bud with Mic which has more or less sound quality like SHE3800 and can handle lots of bass settings and bass? But not too expensive as well.


----------



## Saoshyant

The problem with high imp buds is they often are not properly driven by phone, so one with a mic most likely wouldn't perform as it should.


----------



## chinmie

AkashS04 said:


> You are saying that you got $150 earbud as replacement of Monk which is $5?



almost all "boutique" earbuds modders in Indonesia do that, converting $5 to much more expensive one. but trust me, the improvements are real and plenty.. no question about it


----------



## golov17

AkashS04 said:


> You know any High Impedence bud with Mic which has more or less sound quality like SHE3800 and can handle lots of bass settings and bass? But not too expensive as well.


Nope


----------



## teesui

AkashS04 said:


> Cable colour looks weird though. Also, no Mic  How is the sound otherwise? If it fits well with my iPod, I might try again without Mic. For iPod, I need something which can add some tonality in iPod sound and also have thumping bass and warmness.



That's just a copper cable in clear sleeving.


----------



## rkw

golov17 said:


> 15.4 mm Graphene driver unit (this is the most important, the driver unit determines the sound quality)
> Amazing sound!
> Wear very comfortable ..
> 20Ω impedance, it is very easy to drive.
> ...


Can you describe more about the sound quality and signature? What buds would you compare it to?

I wouldn't make too much about the driver, it's more about how well they integrate the total package. **** PT15 is also described as having a graphene driver.


----------



## AkashS04

teesui said:


> That's just a copper cable in clear sleeving.


Copper colour is fine. I thought it is mix Pink-Golden kind of colour.


----------



## AkashS04

chinmie said:


> almost all "boutique" earbuds modders in Indonesia do that, converting $5 to much more expensive one. but trust me, the improvements are real and plenty.. no question about it


But how much they charge? 100s of $$$$?


----------



## chinmie

AkashS04 said:


> But how much they charge? 100s of $$$$?



whether it is worth it or not depends on the individual. sound is highly subjective. to me i would rather pay for the edimun /red demun than have 10 or 20 units of edifier H180. but i also found some $10 to$20 buds that i like better than $50 and up buds. the point is you will never know until you try and compare them yourself. no amount of reviews and impressions you read here will be worth one personal listening experience.


----------



## ricesteam (Jul 13, 2017)

chaiyuta said:


> Is its cable springy ?



It's thick.



AkashS04 said:


> You are saying that you got $150 earbud as replacement of Monk which is $5?



Yes, in other words, I paid to get my Monks modded. You can search this forurm for other people's impression on Diomnes Lv2. Spending $$$ is given when you enter this hobby.


----------



## ricesteam

oops


----------



## AkashS04

chinmie said:


> whether it is worth it or not depends on the individual. sound is highly subjective. to me i would rather pay for the edimun /red demun than have 10 or 20 units of edifier H180. but i also found some $10 to$20 buds that i like better than $50 and up buds. the point is you will never know until you try and compare them yourself. no amount of reviews and impressions you read here will be worth one personal listening experience.


I agree that it is subjective. But on the other side it is almost impossible to listen to these earbuds as they are not available on store where you can go and try. And 2nd thing, it is to expensive for me. I am yet to order your suggested Yincrow as holding back due to impedence only 32. I am not sure if this will be able to handle PowerAmp Bass and heavy bass settings or not :| Do you know any high impedence which has SHE3800 or Yincrow X6 kind of sound?


----------



## Danneq

Endgame...

Thou has finally been reached...


----------



## mochill

I'm here lurking around


----------



## ctaxxxx

Danneq said:


> Endgame...
> 
> Thou has finally been reached...



Oh, man. I've been contemplating if I should go for one of those, but got the Liebesleid instead. Need some comparisons. I wasn't very crazy about CAX Black, but I do wonder how much better these are.


----------



## Danneq (Jul 13, 2017)

ctaxxxx said:


> Oh, man. I've been contemplating if I should go for one of those, but got the Liebesleid instead. Need some comparisons. I wasn't very crazy about CAX Black, but I do wonder how much better these are.



I actually didn't buy a new pair. ProLoL decided to focus on another hobby and offered his Red Dragon to me. Perhaps because I was the first one hyping Cypherus earbuds here (even if I wasn't the first head fier who owned a pair of Cypherus earbuds). I paid a lot but still got a great offer. I thank him from the bottom of my heart for the opportunity to buy them even if it hurt my wallet and I had to use the money I had saved for CampFred 2.

I can honestly say that Red Dragon is the best sounding earbuds or even headphones I have ever heard. They are so subtle and dynamic that it's just amazing.

Imagine the neutral reference type sound of CAX Black, mixed with the laid back effortlessness of CampFred, mixed with the huge soundstage of Diomnes Lv2. Then you might be half way to describe Red Dragon.
No earbud I have heard comes close.

On another note, Vido is really really good. My first impression was that it was the best earbud under $100 I had heard. I still have not compared them to my other sub $100 earbuds but they punch way above their price...


----------



## springbay

@Danneq 
We need to do a Cypherus meet up (somewhere neutral like Skövde).
My CampFred 2 and Blue Darth finally arrived yesterday after the slowest EMS delivery I've ever experienced.


----------



## golov17

rkw said:


> Can you describe more about the sound quality and signature? What buds would you compare it to?
> 
> I wouldn't make too much about the driver, it's more about how well they integrate the total package. **** PT15 is also described as having a graphene driver.


This is just an advertising description from the seller, it's unlikely that someone has already listened to them, I ordered, try them soon ..


----------



## golov17

True graphene earbuds


----------



## DagsJT (Jul 14, 2017)

Is there a standout that people are choosing right now? I'd quite like a cheap pair of buds .. around $25 I guess .... with a preferance towards bass, nice soundstage and some treble but not too much otherwise it kills my ears.

The EMX500 sounds like it could be right for me? If so, is there a recommended store on AliExpress or similar to ship to the UK?


----------



## JohnVoight

So much to choose from!! 

What do you guys suggest under $30?
I own the monk, monk plus and TY Hi-Z 32ohm.
Not a fan of the Hi-Z. But i love my monk and monk plus.
Please suggest something in similar sound signature.. love that lush wide sound of monk


----------



## chaiyuta

JohnVoight said:


> So much to choose from!!
> 
> What do you guys suggest under $30?
> I own the monk, monk plus and TY Hi-Z 32ohm.
> ...


Why don't you get Monk+ SPC edition?


----------



## JohnVoight

I am looking at the **** PT15, Yincrow X6, Vido, etc etc etc (headspin )


----------



## JohnVoight

chaiyuta said:


> Why don't you get Monk+ SPC edition?


SPC?? u mean the one with the different(twisted) cable? Does it really improve the sound?


----------



## chaiyuta

JohnVoight said:


> SPC?? u mean the one with the different(twisted) cable? Does it really improve the sound?


It is not twisted. Cable effects to sound quality. I don't own it yet, so I can't give you any impression. Let's check at the ve clan site.


----------



## Danneq

DagsJT said:


> Is there a standout that people are choosing right now? I'd quite like a cheap pair of buds .. around $25 I guess .... with a preferance towards bass, nice soundstage and some treble but not too much otherwise it kills my ears.
> 
> The EMX500 sounds like it could be right for me? If so, is there a recommended store on AliExpress or similar to ship to the UK?



I haven't heard EMX500, but I can certainly recommend Vido. You can get it for just $3.99 from Ali Express. Considering the price vs performance it's really really good. I just bought a pair of $700+ (price when new, I bought my pair second hand) DIY one of a kind exclusive Cypherus earbuds. They are the best ear- or headphones I have heard. Period.
Still I am blown away by how good Vido is considering the price for it. Vido has quickly become my go to earbuds when I go out (the Cypherus earbuds has got a very stiff cable and is better for listening at home).


----------



## DagsJT

Danneq said:


> I haven't heard EMX500, but I can certainly recommend Vido. You can get it for just $3.99 from Ali Express. Considering the price vs performance it's really really good. I just bought a pair of $700+ (price when new, I bought my pair second hand) DIY one of a kind exclusive Cypherus earbuds. They are the best ear- or headphones I have heard. Period.
> Still I am blown away by how good Vido is considering the price for it. Vido has quickly become my go to earbuds when I go out (the Cypherus earbuds has got a very stiff cable and is better for listening at home).



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...lgo_pvid=822f9b60-fc87-44fb-8a73-d90d1c33d176

They're the ones?


----------



## Danneq

DagsJT said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...lgo_pvid=822f9b60-fc87-44fb-8a73-d90d1c33d176
> 
> They're the ones?



Yep.

They have got good bass, a pretty good soundstage and instrument separation and the treble is not harsh or overly sharp.


----------



## Saoshyant

DagsJT said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...lgo_pvid=822f9b60-fc87-44fb-8a73-d90d1c33d176
> 
> They're the ones?


Yes


----------



## DagsJT

Thanks both. For the sake of $4 and the long delivery time, any other earbuds at a silly cheap price like that which are worth getting to try out? Might as well get a few different ones if they're that cheap!


----------



## rggz

Finally, I got the Vido! I've bought 4 pairs after reading about a possible QC issues, and I think I'm lucky just 1 pair has the treble not matched perfectly by few dBs. One of these pairs is designed to repair (reuse the housing) of my dead Tomahawk which I don't know why exactly the right driver just stopped working.

Well, I don't trust much in my auditive memory to compare both but I don't remember smiling that much with the original Tomahawk.

Lovely earbud!


Spoiler


----------



## Merlin-PT

If you open the tomahawk, please post some photos in the DIY thread, their sound also make me smile and I would like to see whats inside (drivers and housing) 
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/


----------



## AkashS04

chaiyuta said:


> It is not twisted. Cable effects to sound quality. I don't own it yet, so I can't give you any impression. Let's check at the ve clan site.


What us SPC Monk? Special Edition?


----------



## DagsJT

Right, I have EB200's, Vido's & EMX500's in my AliExpress basket. Should these be fine running from a mobile phone (currently a Galaxy S7)?


----------



## AkashS04

Looks like SPC edition is the one with SIler Colour but it is out of stock or what that it is disabled and nothing mentioned about it on VE page


----------



## rggz

Merlin-PT said:


> their sound also make me smile and I would like to see whats inside



Sure! But are you talking about Tomahawk? This picture is just the Tomahawk's housing with the Vido's driver now. 



DagsJT said:


> Right, I have EB200's, Vido's & EMX500's in my AliExpress basket. Should these be fine running from a mobile phone (currently a Galaxy S7)?



I think just EB200 will be a problem running on an S7. Since it has 200 Ohms probably you'll need an amp to get an extra juice.


----------



## AkashS04

Did anyone try these? How is the sound quality: 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Oll...lgo_pvid=b7e6f761-8606-4ea5-851b-2cbe68efad70


----------



## chaiyuta

I just looked up the VE clan site. Currently, MONK+ SPC 3.5SE is out of stock, but MONK+ SPC 2.5BL still left. This is a new VE SPC cable. If you checked at VE ASURA, it become VE ASURA 2.0s with this SPC cable as well.


----------



## AkashS04

chaiyuta said:


> I just looked up the VE clan site. Currently, MONK+ SPC 3.5SE is out of stock, but MONK+ SPC 2.5BL still left. This is a new VE SPC cable. If you checked at VE ASURA, it become VE ASURA 2.0s with this SPC cable as well.


What is the difference? Is it better sounding? More bass? Or what?


----------



## chaiyuta

@AkashS04 : Please look up to VE Clan FB Plubic Group Then search 'SPC'. You can find more details.


----------



## AkashS04

chaiyuta said:


> @AkashS04 : Please look up to VE Clan FB Plubic Group Then search 'SPC'. You can find more details.


I will try. Quickly had a look at the page but did not find any details. One uy mentioned that it is different to his ear but he cannot explain how :|


----------



## noknok23

What would be a great upgrade over nicehck diy pk2? Sweet warm relaxed with intimate soundstage. But no bleed in lower mids (hate that) and better extension?


----------



## Merlin-PT

rggz said:


> Sure! But are you talking about Tomahawk? This picture is just the Tomahawk's housing with the Vido's driver now.



I misread your post, I was talking about the tomahawk 
Nicely done, looking at the picture I saw the original tomahawk, it looks the same hehe


----------



## fairx

Is there somewhere pic of opened tomahawk? I want to recable but afraid to do so. Not sure about glue and such.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Got by budget buds in today (all except EMX500). Do these require burn in? I listened to them for a few seconds before I put them on the burner and thought, "wow, these are bassy!" lol. Might need to slip some thin foams on these. What foams does everyone typically use? I might use those for my impressions so it'll be consistent with everyone else's.


----------



## chellity

DagsJT said:


> Right, I have EB200's, Vido's & EMX500's in my AliExpress basket. Should these be fine running from a mobile phone (currently a Galaxy S7)?



I feel like the average cellphone sounds so bad, that the vidos are the best earbuds that can shine with a bad source.  EB200 will be probably reach 85db or more for listening, but it just sounds so much worse on my iphone 6 than on my entry level cayin N3.  EMX500 might work since its lower impedance, but I bet any DAP will sound better than a non-audio cellphone.


----------



## chinmie

just got EMX500 today. in my most humble opinion, between these two, there is no need for other earbuds under $50 range, or might be even to $100 in some cases (the Toneking TP16 and Edifier H185 is good, but these two are clearly better).
they are not similar, with the vido only loses on vocal presentation. the vido excels on instrumental music, while the EMX500 edges better on music with vocals.

will compare them to my other buds later tonight


----------



## knudsen (Jul 15, 2017)

chinmie said:


> just got EMX500 today. in my most humble opinion, between these two, there is no need for other earbuds under $50 range, or might be even to $100 in some cases (the Toneking TP16 and Edifier H185 is good, but these two are clearly better).
> they are not similar, with the vido only loses on vocal presentation. the vido excels on instrumental music, while the EMX500 edges better on music with vocals.
> 
> will compare them to my other buds later tonight


You said it man Though I've had the opposite impression, that Vido is the one that excels with vocals and EMX having the "bigger" sound in all ways (soundstage, extension) and are better for instrumental.. But I think at least the EMX changes with burnin, gets more relaxed


----------



## prone2phone

another cheer for emx500(Fengru diy emx500),. Vs Vido has fuller vocals but emx500 more forward and even sometimes too shouty. Both great .. Also have yincrow x6 and it seems so far they are geared more to brutal music than Vido with bit tighter bass.


----------



## knudsen

prone2phone said:


> another cheer for emx500(Fengru diy emx500),. Vs Vido has fuller vocals but emx500 more forward and even sometimes too shouty. Both great .. Also have yincrow x6 and it seems so far they are geared more to brutal music than Vido with bit tighter bass.


How do you find those first two against top buds you've had like TM7? It seems it would have to be from memory Are they clearly from another shelf?


----------



## chinmie

knudsen said:


> You said it man Though I've had the opposite impression, that Vido is the one that excels with vocals and EMX having the "bigger" sound in all ways (soundstage, extension) and are better for instrumental.. But I think at least the EMX changes with burnin, gets more relaxed



the vido is by no any means is a slouch on vocals, but comparing them in low volume, i can hear the words/lyrics a little bit clearer with the EMX500 than the Vido


----------



## prone2phone

knudsen said:


> How do you find those first two against top buds you've had like TM7? It seems it would have to be from memory Are they clearly from another shelf?


Ok from memory I didn't care much about Tm7( at that time I much prefered Hifiman re262 iems).Not sure about sound quality, but I want to say that sound has many qualities and to me tonality, non-fatiquesness, spaciousness and naturalness stand out the most. Tonality is like shoes if it doesn't fit your taste nothing else matters. You can walk in pain in nice looking pair, but is it worth it. Resolution, separation who cares.

At the moment I enjoy these budget earbuds more than any gear . That matters to me..


----------



## knudsen

chinmie said:


> the vido is by no any means is a slouch on vocals, but comparing them in low volume, i can hear the words/lyrics a little bit clearer with the EMX500 than the Vido


You're probably right. So if the consensus is that EMX is U shaped, what would that make Vido? Even more pronounced L ?


----------



## DBaldock9

My set of Wong Kuan Wae "Blur 魔音” (2.5TRRS) earbuds arrived today.
I immediately plugged them into my Onkyo DP-X1, and listened to the 24-Bit/192-KHz "Chesky - Ultimate Headphone Demonstration" (2014) music tracks - and I'm convinced Wong is a Wizard.


----------



## siderak

Yeah so I ordered some vido's  because I was shocked by someone saying they sounded like the campFred 2's a few weeks back...
I've been burning my Campfred 2's  for the past two weeks and received my vido's  last week.  The vido's include versions with and without a mic. 
 I'm happy to report that to my ears they are not on the same level.  I can agree that  they might be described with the same sound signature which is V-shaped but, the Campfred 2's have much more frequential definition and resolution from top to bottom. 
MUCH more alive dynamically with great instrument separation. It's very easy to hear. 
I don't hear a difference in vido between the mic and non mic versions. 
I love the vido's for what they are however I personally give the slight edge to the yincrow x6's.


----------



## siderak

DBaldock9 said:


> My set of Wong Kuan Wae "Blur 魔音” (2.5TRRS) earbuds arrived today.
> I immediately plugged them into my Onkyo DP-X1, and listened to the 24-Bit/192-KHz "Chesky - Ultimate Headphone Demonstration" (2014) music tracks - and I'm convinced Wong is a Wizard.


He is isn't he??
I have the same Blur's but unbalanced. 
Congrats! Happy for you! I'm still in love with mine!


----------



## Saoshyant

siderak said:


> Yeah so I ordered some vido's  because I was shocked by someone saying they sounded like the campFred 2's a few weeks back...
> I've been burning my Campfred 2's  for the past two weeks and received my vido's  last week.  The vido's include versions with and without a mic.
> I'm happy to report that to my ears they are not on the same level.  I can agree that  they might be described with the same sound signature which is V-shaped but, the Campfred 2's have much more frequential definition and resolution from top to bottom.
> MUCH more alive dynamically with great instrument separation. It's very easy to hear.
> ...



My main thought was given the cost difference, I don't see much of a point of buying Yincrow if you already have Vido.


----------



## RyanM

Saoshyant said:


> My main thought was given the cost difference, I don't see much of a point of buying Yincrow if you already have Vido.



I would consider it a direct upgrade. Slightly better clarity and resolution. It's a very nice bud, however, they're extremly similiarsoundwide. The Yincrow has a better and longer cable and some cool colorways. I think its worth a few extra bucks.


----------



## doggiemom

I received the Asura 2.0s (SE) and Monk+ SPC (balanced) today.  Did a quick A/B/C with them and the "cappuccino" Monk+ (balanced).  The source was an iPhone 6s, connected via Apple CCK to an LH Labs Geekout V2+ Infinity, because it has both SE and TRRS outputs.

Initial impressions:

Asura 2.0s:  Unlike a lot of products on the market today, these are very mid-forward, and consequently sound best with singer-songwriter and vocal-centric pop.  The bass is present and clear but not emphasized.  The highs are precise but not too bright.  I've read several reviews that compared these to Grado's airy sound, and I think that is true........ the vocals sound airy and relaxed.  The donut foams boost the bass a bit while maintaining the emphasis on vocals.

Monk+ SPC:  The soundstage on these is not as wide as with the Asuras, which is not surprising given the price difference.  After listening to the Asuras, the vocals sound recessed, though after a few minutes this sensation goes away.  There is some difference between the SPC and cappuccino Monk+, but it is subtle.  There is more emphasis in the treble and upper mids here, so I prefer them with the thick foams.

"Cappucino" Monk+:  Again, soundstage is not as wide with the Asuras, but the soundstage is wider than the standard Monk+.  (In fairness, I think the balanced output on the GO is better than the SE, so this observation might not be valid with a different amp).  To my ears, these are the most neutral of the bunch.  I am sensitive to treble and the Asuras have a definite personality, so these will continue to be my "go to" VE buds for everyday listening.


----------



## springbay

For those not on FB, shots are being fired
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=444713359234094&id=100010863017577
I wonder what will happen next. I'm not used to earbud drama.


----------



## golov17

springbay said:


> For those not on FB, shots are being fired
> https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=444713359234094&id=100010863017577
> I wonder what will happen next. I'm not used to earbud drama.


 nope drama..


Spoiler


----------



## doggiemom

springbay said:


> For those not on FB, shots are being fired
> https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=444713359234094&id=100010863017577
> I wonder what will happen next. I'm not used to earbud drama.


God bless the internet........ internet users can make drama out of anything.


----------



## Saoshyant

doggiemom said:


> God bless the internet........ internet users can make drama out of anything.



The internet is basically everyone trying their best to do a Joe Pesci impression.


----------



## SuperMAG

How is blur compared to other totl and how is it compared to lz a4 (my best).


----------



## golov17

SuperMAG said:


> How is blur compared to other totl and how is it compared to lz a4 (my best).


https://m.facebook.com/groups/1776232929304900?view=permalink&id=1877350512526474&fs=9


----------



## DBaldock9

doggiemom said:


> I received the Asura 2.0s (SE) and Monk+ SPC (balanced) today.  Did a quick A/B/C with them and the "cappuccino" Monk+ (balanced).  The source was an iPhone 6s, connected via Apple CCK to an LH Labs Geekout V2+ Infinity, because it has both SE and TRRS outputs.
> 
> Initial impressions:
> 
> ...



My first VE earbuds were the Asura 2.0 (2.5TRRS), and Monk+ (2.5TRRS) Espresso.
I was, and still am, impressed with the Asura 2.0 Midrange - and agree that the quality of details in the Bass are very good, even if the quantity is less than other earbuds.

The Monk+ has more Bass quantity, but the detail and impact are not as refined as the Asura.
A couple of months later, I bought some standard Monk+ earbuds - with, and without, Mic & Android controls.
They sound similar to the Balanced Espresso Monk+, but don't have quite as much Bass.

An earbud that nearly equals the Asura 2.0 for Midrange, and has better Bass - is the Balanced K's 500, for about $20 more than the Asura ($108 vs $88).
At 500Ω, it's not as easy for a phone to drive, but my DAPs drive it just fine.

The ($119) TY Hi-Z 650 has a definite Bass boost, but due to that, seems to have a recessed Midrange compared to the Asura & K's 500.
My TY 650 still have a 3.5mm TRS plug, but I'm going to be installing a 2.5mm TRRS.

I don't know if it's _New Toy Syndrome_ or not, but the "Blur 魔音” (2.5TRRS) (~2x the cost of the Asura 2.0) that arrived on Saturday, have the best clear & detailed Midrange I've ever heard - and they've got very good & detailed, but not overly emphasized Bass.
The Blur is 300Ω, and actually seems harder to drive than the K's 500 - so they probably do need a good DAP or Amp, rather than just plugging them into a non-audiophile phone.


----------



## springbay

golov17 said:


> nope drama..
> 
> 
> Spoiler



Dude, you're missing the point. The drama is about him calling out another company that is known for their marketing skills.


----------



## noknok23

Cheers for the blur love, they deserve the hype. I wonder if cable make that much of a difference. The budget blur is around $80, almost same as asura.
Note that prolonged burn in and great amount of power do help quite nicely for bass to show up with the blur.


----------



## golov17

springbay said:


> Dude, you're missing the point. The drama is about him calling out another company that is known for their marketing skills.


You are not used to seeing on Aliexpress next to the name earbuds "killmonk" etc? Lol


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jul 16, 2017)

Is he saying the TY 150s are somehow better than _all_ his previous TY buds or just the new generation?


----------



## golov17

Merlin-PT said:


> Is he saying the TY 150s are somehow better than _all_ his previous TY buds or just the new generation?


Such as the best price / SQ ratio


----------



## ricesteam

springbay said:


> For those not on FB, shots are being fired
> https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=444713359234094&id=100010863017577
> I wonder what will happen next. I'm not used to earbud drama.



Cool, aside from the drama, if what he says is true, I find it interesting background information. Zen 1.0 being one of my favorite buds and if it's original creator is now working for TY HI-Z, I may have to start researching its earbuds.


----------



## doggiemom

DBaldock9 said:


> My first VE earbuds were the Asura 2.0 (2.5TRRS), and Monk+ (2.5TRRS) Espresso.
> I was, and still am, impressed with the Asura 2.0 Midrange - and agree that the quality of details in the Bass are very good, even if the quantity is less than other earbuds.
> 
> The Monk+ has more Bass quantity, but the detail and impact are not as refined as the Asura.
> ...



I wonder if the 2.0 version sounds much different from the 2.0s?  I like them but not enough to buy another to compare.  

Thank you for the recommendation of the Balanced K's 500, I will definitely look them up.

Impedance isn't a big concern for me, as I use a portable DAC/amp when listening from my phone 99% of the time.  (I have an iPhone 6 which is def not an "audiophile" phone, but it is free because of work so I make do).    And...........  the Blur (insert some Chinese characters here) is on its way, though tracking shows it has not yet left its native country.  



golov17 said:


> You are not used to seeing on Aliexpress next to the name earbuds "killmonk" etc? Lol


Yes, but it is more exciting now because it is on Facebook so the great unwashed masses can make comments.    For what it is worth, the only TYs I own are the 32 and they are to bright on the high end for me.


----------



## kurtextrem

Merlin-PT said:


> Is he saying the TY 150s are somehow better than _all_ his previous TY buds or just the new generation?


From the comments I'd assume it's better than all the previous TY buds as 6 months of research went into the bud. 
I am very interested how they perform compared to the other TOTL buds


----------



## Makahl

I think I just figure out now the "Blur" is the brand name and not the earbud per se, so the mandarin character is the model/tuning? Can someone confirm?


----------



## golov17 (Jul 16, 2017)

@Makahl 
https://m.facebook.com/groups/17762...comment&notif_id=1500217386106362&ref=m_notif


----------



## Makahl

golov17 said:


> @Makahl
> https://m.facebook.com/groups/17762...comment&notif_id=1500217386106362&ref=m_notif



Thanks! But I still a bit confused, the @DBaldock9's model is called "Blur 魔*音*" and the link which you posted is suggesting as "Blur 魔*女*", I think perhaps those differences are the cable or tuning since both are 300 Ohms.


----------



## doggiemom

Here is the info that Wong (the creator) sent me:




This is "Blur 魔女” - 300ohm drivers , hand twisted crystal copper wires , hand twisted copper wire splitter, oyaide gold plated $128SGD




This is "Blur 魔声/聲” - 300ohm drivers , hand twisted OCC copper wires , hand twisted copper wire splitter, oyaide silver rhodium plug , $168SGD




This is "Blur 魔音” - 300ohm drivers , hand twisted OCC SPC wires , hand twisted copper wire splitter, oyaide silver rhodium plug , $200SGD ( thicker wires and sound also fuller which closer to headphone sound )


----------



## siderak

As i understand it, Blur is the series. Same driver different cable and plug. I don't know if he's decided on a brand name yet. 
I have the silver and am ordering the black as a backup!


----------



## audio123

i will receive ty hi z 150s soon, possibly tmr & Blur 魔*女 *in a couple of weeks. will post my impressions soon.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 16, 2017)

These look a bit different style anyone try this type before? From the spec they seem loud.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Met...lgo_pvid=a1affb28-cbd1-415d-bb96-9e1116277901
bluetooth version:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Mor...lgo_pvid=868dfb94-9da0-4a7a-9f68-09f99d03b0b1

New to me:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Mor...lgo_pvid=eacb5dcf-d0fe-426d-836e-ff0228624d6b


----------



## jrazmar

Where and how to buy this Blur earphone?


----------



## DBaldock9

jrazmar said:


> Where and how to buy this Blur earphone?



You need to contact the guy who custom makes them - Wong Kuan Wae - on Facebook [ https://www.facebook.com/wkuanwae ]


----------



## noknok23 (Jul 16, 2017)

Really can't wait to hear feedback about tyhiz150s--btw wild Lee counter attacked and talked about a "storm" of circa $50 but not sure if earbuds or iem

Btw I love the blurs. A bit hard to drive thought. For people that don't have powerful dap yet. I highly recommend to check out the zishan z2. Approved by blur maker himself as an excellent source for his work.


----------



## ctaxxxx (Jul 23, 2017)

Wrote up some quick impressions on the budget buds. I didn't much to say for 2 of them (and I still don't have the EMX500 yet) but the Vido's are really impressive! Did a CampFred comparison section as well!



ctaxxxx said:


> See signature for revised impressions.




Thinking I might try the Blur next with all this talk here. How long does it take to build before shipment? I might need to wait until next paycheck, unless the wait is long enough...


----------



## doggiemom

ctaxxxx said:


> Wrote up some quick impressions on the budget buds. I didn't much to say for 2 of them (and I still don't have the EMX500 yet) but the Vido's are really impressive! Did a CampFred comparison section as well!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Depends on which model you order and whether or not he has the parts in stock.  Mine were built and shipped within 48 hours.

He is legit and easy to deal with - didn't ask for payment until they were ready to ship, then immediately sent tracking info.


----------



## rkw

ctaxxxx said:


> How long does it take to build before shipment? I might need to wait until next paycheck


We live paycheck to paycheck, feeding our addiction...


----------



## ctaxxxx

Also trying out Hiegi Donut foams on CampFred's. I really like these! These actually feel like a mix between thick and thin foams. The Hiegi foams have a much larger hole. All other donut foams sounded too similar to thick foams.


----------



## siderak

ctaxxxx said:


> Also trying out Hiegi Donut foams on CampFred's. I really like these! These actually feel like a mix between thick and thin foams. The Hiegi foams have a much larger hole. All other donut foams sounded too similar to thick foams.



I find that the donuts cut too much of the higher frequencies. 
The porous monk foams from the ex pack sound best to me.


----------



## golov17

siderak said:


> I find that the donuts cut too much of the higher frequencies.
> The porous monk foams from the ex pack sound best to me.


MP best foams ever


----------



## silverfishla

I just received the emx500 DIY bud and in my opinion, it is the most well rounded, best sounding earbud in the "budget" category that I've tried.  I have Monk and balanced Monk, Vido, TP16, Edifier 180, DIY Pk2, DIY Pk1, EB200, TKY2, PMV and a few others.  Really, it's third behind the 2 Roses.  Have an OurArt on the way, so I can't compare that one.


----------



## cigarello

ctaxxxx said:


> Wrote up some quick impressions on the budget buds. I didn't much to say for 2 of them (and I still don't have the EMX500 yet) but the Vido's are really impressive! Did a CampFred comparison section as well!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Whats your opinion on the CF2 vs Shozy BK?


----------



## chaiyuta (Jul 17, 2017)

Updated my Impression on Puresounds PS100-600S + 600-core cable + 2.5mm Balanced : My 600s already 200 hours passed. Every frequency range changes a lot especially in bass range. In first hours, bass was big and decayed. (The biggest basshead I heard from earbuds) Now bass is more tighter and more accurated.(which I thinks good and just in place now.) Vocal is more clearer and brings natural-feel (No -sh -ch emphasis). Singer position is nearly same as PS100-500 Pop (around the top-center of head) with a very little bit forward than PS100-500 Pop. Overall sound becomes balanced. Sound signature is somewhat smile-shape (not heavy U-shape) or somewhat inverse smile-shape (Sorry, I can't detect the shape much, because vocal is neither recessed nor forward but alway on the top-center of head. lol). I do quite agree with other impression that The 600S resolution is almost on-par Rose Mojito but in neutral tonality. By the way, I thinks the resolution of Rose Mojito is still top-notch and Mojito has detachable cable feature therefore When it pairs up with High-end after market cable, its resolution will go further. The 600S is good for watching movies as well. I also think that this 600Ohm driver is not tuned to sound perfect in energy starving stage likes other high Ohm earbuds or headphones that need specific amplifier device. That's why I can hear good sound with just direct plug into iBasso DX200 DAP.

Then, End of my Sharing. Waiting to read other impression from various earbuds.


----------



## MLTKSHHBT

DBaldock9 said:


> You need to contact the guy who custom makes them - Wong Kuan Wae - on Facebook [ https://www.facebook.com/wkuanwae ]


Hi David, how's the blur compared with your LZA4? How you come to the decision get the blur silver as there are three models? Wong said the difference is only on the cable.


----------



## AkashS04

actorlife said:


> These look a bit different style anyone try this type before? From the spec they seem loud.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Met...lgo_pvid=a1affb28-cbd1-415d-bb96-9e1116277901
> bluetooth version:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Mor...lgo_pvid=868dfb94-9da0-4a7a-9f68-09f99d03b0b1
> ...


IN2 is very cheap. Just $1.99. Did anyone try them? How is the sound and build quality?

I am also wondering if any one has good comparison among SHE3800, Yincrow X6 and Vido? Is Yincrow like SHE3800 but better build quality? Or same. SHE3800 has warm sound and boomy bass


----------



## ctaxxxx

siderak said:


> I find that the donuts cut too much of the higher frequencies.
> The porous monk foams from the ex pack sound best to me.



The porous monk foams (or what I call thin foams) are my favorite. I use them for partically all my buds. It's just for CampFred 2, I felt it made them too bright and bass light. Thick foams (and VE donuts) made them too bassy and congested. 

Hiegi donut foams was a perfect mix of both. Mainly kept the highs while adding bass. 



cigarello said:


> Whats your opinion on the CF2 vs Shozy BK?



I prefer CampFred 2 personally. I've been listening to Shozy BK less and less because of the other buds I own. Shozy is good analytically, but since I got Diomnes Lv2, I keep going back to those. So that leaves bass and mids, which I prefer CampFred and QFred for. (Though I'm looking for a new mid champion to replace QFred)

Also, orders for the second batch of CampFred 2 opened recently, so I would jump on that quickly.


----------



## mag8 (Jul 17, 2017)

Hi all,

I am looking for suggestions on sub 20$ earbuds to buy. I am looking for something with a microphone and possibly with a twisted cable.

Some time ago i found this forum while researching KZ audio and their IEM, and I still think they are great. however there are situations where IEM are a bit overkill, so i'm looking for earbuds now.

The Monk+ seem the best buy,  but I also would like to see if there are earbuds with twisted cords like the emx500 AND with the microphone.

Also,a tip design like the iphone's earbuds with the opening going towards the drum would be great

too much to ask?


----------



## noknok23 (Jul 17, 2017)

Too much maybe... Because usually, people will use dedicated dap for their earbuds, not phone. 
Maybe vido and seahf 32 can be nice alternative if you like more bass


----------



## mag8

Thanks but the seahf doesnt have a mic or braided cable


----------



## siderak

MLTKSHHBT said:


> Hi David, how's the blur compared with your LZA4? How you come to the decision get the blur silver as there are three models? Wong said the difference is only on the cable.



I find the blur to be more open and clean sounding than the A4's. 
Obviously they don't have any isolation. 
In general blurs are also a more neutral ss depending on which back and front combination is used on the A4.
Overall, blurs win in resolution.


----------



## siderak

mag8 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am looking for suggestions on sub 20$ earbuds to buy. I am looking for something with a microphone and possibly with a twisted cable.
> 
> ...



Yincrow X6 with mic. Not twisted cord and not the tip design you are looking for but great build  with a clear mic and fantastic sound for the money imo.


----------



## noknok23

mag8 said:


> Thanks but the seahf doesnt have a mic or braided cable



There is a lot of seahf32, not very clear sorry.
Seahf 32ohm Flat Head Plug Earplugs 32 ohms High Impedance In Ear Earphones Classic HIFI Auriculares AWK-F32 Monk Earphone
http://s.aliexpress.com/nqYfMRRZ
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## siderak

ctaxxxx said:


> The porous monk foams (or what I call thin foams) are my favorite. I use them for partically all my buds. It's just for CampFred 2, I felt it made them too bright and bass light. Thick foams (and VE donuts) made them too bassy and congested.
> 
> Hiegi donut foams was a perfect mix of both. Mainly kept the highs while adding bass.



Aaaah that makes all the sense in the world!
I prefer a more neutral sound sig so I'm using the thin foams to reduce bass a little. 
I have to say that though the Campfred 2 has more bass than I usually like, it is very refined, not bloaty at all. I can't deny fully enjoying the way it grooves.


----------



## KookaBurrra

silverfishla said:


> I just received the emx500 DIY bud and in my opinion, it is the most well rounded, best sounding earbud in the "budget" category that I've tried.  I have Monk and balanced Monk, Vido, TP16, Edifier 180, DIY Pk2, DIY Pk1, EB200, TKY2, PMV and a few others.  Really, it's third behind the 2 Roses.  Have an OurArt on the way, so I can't compare that one.



Really like *DIY EMX500* too !

Just recabled Vido and Monk Plus to compare it this the same cable than EXM500....


----------



## AkashS04

siderak said:


> Yincrow X6 with mic. Not twisted cord and not the tip design you are looking for but great build  with a clear mic and fantastic sound for the money imo.


How is Yincrow X6 compare to SHE3800. To me, SHE3800 has boomy bass and warm sound. The only thing I wanted high impedence but both X6 and 3800 has 32 Ohms.


----------



## DBaldock9

MLTKSHHBT said:


> Hi David, how's the blur compared with your LZA4? How you come to the decision get the blur silver as there are three models? Wong said the difference is only on the cable.



I chose the "Blur 魔音”, because of Wong saying this, when describing the different models to me - _( thicker wires and sound also fuller which closer to headphone sound )_.

These are casual observations, without trying to do any critical level matching (the LZ A4 is easier to drive, so the Volume has to be adjusted any time I switch).
I'm using JVC Spiral Dot (L) tips on my LZ A4, and a Donut Foam under a Full Foam on the Blur.
With the correct tip for a good _fit / seal_, the LZ A4 (Black Back / Gray Front) has more Bass impact (which isn't surprising).
The LZ A4, as an IEM, has much better isolation.
The Blur seems to have more clarity and detail in the Midrange (could be due to differences in Volume levels).
The Blur presents a larger, more out-of-your-head sound stage.


----------



## AkashS04

I liked the cable in the white earbuds here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/N-K...id=a695cab8-d7c3-463d-9df6-e7d46911903a&tpp=1

Looks good quality. Does Yincrow has same cable?


----------



## AkashS04

Looks like Bassy Earbuds: https://goo.gl/6aGkQT


----------



## AkashS04

DBaldock9 said:


> I chose the "Blur 魔音”, because of Wong saying this, when describing the different models to me - _( thicker wires and sound also fuller which closer to headphone sound )_.
> 
> These are casual observations, without trying to do any critical level matching (the LZ A4 is easier to drive, so the Volume has to be adjusted any time I switch).
> I'm using JVC Spiral Dot (L) tips on my LZ A4, and a Donut Foam under a Full Foam on the Blur.
> ...



How does Wire quality affects overall sound and in what sense?


----------



## AkashS04

Any High Impedence (64 or more ohms) Earbud with Mic which has Freq range from 10 or below to 20k or something? I guess all are from 20-20000 only.


----------



## rkw

mag8 said:


> Thanks but the seahf doesnt have a mic or braided cable


I can't remember ever seeing _any_ earbud on AliExpress with braided cord and mic. You can buy a DIY cord and make it yourself. Even the cords are rare, only 2 or 3 that I could find, such as:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/diy...-headphone-cable-LC-OFC-wire/32399022479.html


----------



## chaiyuta

AkashS04 said:


> How does Wire quality affects overall sound and in what sense?


It is very long story. If you are non cable believer or you can't hear different, Please let them be. Also, 7N OCC or whatever high-specs after market cables might be out of your budget range as well. Those Blur series are not cheap earbuds and they don't have mic too.

P.S. In Head-Fi, there are a lot of Cable thread, You might search and read some sound science by yourself.


----------



## AkashS04

chaiyuta said:


> It is very long story. If you are non cable believer or you can't hear different, Please let them be. Also, 7N OCC or whatever high-specs after market cables might be out of your budget range as well. Those Blur series are not cheap earbuds and they don't have mic too.
> 
> P.S. In Head-Fi, there are a lot of Cable thread, You might search and read some sound science by yourself.


Thnx. Basically I liked few types of cable and was thinking if there is any high impdence bud which has mic but also has freq range from 10/12 - 20k or so on so I can get boomy bass but should also have warm sound with Mic. Seems there is no earbud as such.


----------



## actorlife

AkashS04 said:


> I*N2 is very cheap. Just $1.99*. Did anyone try them? How is the sound and build quality?
> 
> I am also wondering if any one has good comparison among SHE3800, Yincrow X6 and Vido? Is Yincrow like SHE3800 but better build quality? Or same. SHE3800 has warm sound and boomy bass


I'll let you know in about 2 weeks. MoreBlue seems to do well in SQ at a super low price, but ya never know. Do you like your bass neutral, crisp high(sibilant free) or plenty bass, but not boomy?


----------



## AkashS04

actorlife said:


> I'll let you know in about 2 weeks. MoreBlue seems to do well in SQ at a super low price, but ya never know. Do you like your bass neutral, crisp high(sibilant free) or plenty bass, but not boomy?


I like boomy bass and warm sound with smooth details. To me this looks like SHE3800: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Insten-3...6-6-5S-5C-4S-3GS-iPad-Mini-Air-White/28885252

Has anyone try?


----------



## fairx

Is is a well known fact that high impedance generally need high power source. Earbud + mic indicates that it will be used with phone to answer calls. Phone = weak source. Need to connect to amp or well powered player. No point in using mic with those player. 

Phone + high impedance earbud dont produce  enough listening volume anyway (my phone does but I don't use it as phone.  High impedance earbud maker don't care about phone function. 

It's like asking f1 race car to be equipped with reverse signal light. Doesn't serve any purpose. 

Those frequency range usually just as reference in lab. Don't worry too much about those especially on aliexpress product pages. Hope this helps.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 17, 2017)

AkashS04 said:


> I like boomy bass and warm sound with smooth details. To me this looks like SHE3800: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Insten-3...6-6-5S-5C-4S-3GS-iPad-Mini-Air-White/28885252
> 
> Has anyone try?


I'll suggest these to you. Both have the SQ you want. Bass/Highs/Mids is fantastic I was shocked:
*TY Hi-Z 32ohm(Double Donut for a snug BASS fit)
Qian25(Double Donut for a snug BASS fit)*


----------



## AkashS04

actorlife said:


> I'll suggest these to you. Both have the SQ you want. Bass/Highs/Mids is fantastic I was shocked:
> *TY Hi-Z 32ohm(Double Donut for a snug BASS fit)
> Qian25(Double Donut for a snug BASS fit)*


I heard about TY Hi-Z 32s but it is only 32 ohms so I wanted 64 or more. But I can still try that. But using double foam will make it very uncomfortable to use I guess.


----------



## AkashS04

fairx said:


> Is is a well known fact that high impedance generally need high power source. Earbud + mic indicates that it will be used with phone to answer calls. Phone = weak source. Need to connect to amp or well powered player. No point in using mic with those player.
> 
> Phone + high impedance earbud dont produce  enough listening volume anyway (my phone does but I don't use it as phone.  High impedance earbud maker don't care about phone function.
> 
> ...


I know on AE those configurations are wrong but freq range below 15 or ideally 12 or below will give boomy effect to the bass which will be missing at 20 or more. I wish at least 1 earbud with high impedence which has my kind of sound signature but with mic.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 17, 2017)

AkashS04 said:


> I heard about TY Hi-Z 32s but it is only 32 ohms so I wanted 64 or more. But I can still try that. But using double foam will make it very uncomfortable to use I guess.


I got small ears and they are comfy to me. I mean for 6 bucks? Way too good. I suggest buying both.


----------



## DBaldock9

Some good tracks, with low Bass from an interesting drum that some friends made - http://www.emuzeki.com/emuzeki.html
I got to know Jenny & Mark, from watching & visiting with them at Renaissance Festivals here in TX.
On some of the tracks of their CDs, they used "_Big Bertha_", a 48" Maple stave drum, with cow-skin head that they made.


----------



## SuperMAG

DBaldock9 said:


> I chose the "Blur 魔音”, because of Wong saying this, when describing the different models to me - _( thicker wires and sound also fuller which closer to headphone sound )_.
> 
> These are casual observations, without trying to do any critical level matching (the LZ A4 is easier to drive, so the Volume has to be adjusted any time I switch).
> I'm using JVC Spiral Dot (L) tips on my LZ A4, and a Donut Foam under a Full Foam on the Blur.
> ...



Having just bought LZ A4 for way out of my price as an end game, even though I find iems quite comfortable compared to extremely comfortable earbuds. That quite hurts a lot.

Can you tell me more, is there any brightness and shoutyness in the vocals and treble, also are the vocals thick sounding or thin.


----------



## DBaldock9

DBaldock9 said:
			
		

> These are casual observations, without trying to do any critical level matching (the LZ A4 is easier to drive, so the Volume has to be adjusted any time I switch).
> I'm using JVC Spiral Dot (L) tips on my LZ A4, and a Donut Foam under a Full Foam on the Blur.



The Blur has a 2.5mm TRRS cable, and I had the LZ A4 connected to a VE Espresso (2.5mm TRRS / MMCX cable) - both being used with my Onkyo DP-X1 (which has a more _analytical_, rather than a _warm_ sound).



			
				DBaldock9 said:
			
		

> With the correct tip for a good _fit / seal_, the LZ A4 (Black Back / Gray Front) has more Bass impact (which isn't surprising).
> The LZ A4, as an IEM, has much better isolation.
> The Blur seems to have more clarity and detail in the Midrange (could be due to differences in Volume levels).
> The Blur presents a larger, more out-of-your-head sound stage.





SuperMAG said:


> Having just bought LZ A4 for way out of my price as an end game, even though I find iems quite comfortable compared to extremely comfortable earbuds. That quite hurts a lot.
> 
> Can you tell me more, is there any brightness and shoutyness in the vocals and treble, also are the vocals thick sounding or thin.



The Blur is certainly brighter than the LZ A4 (Black Back / Gray Front) - but it's mostly above the vocal range - I don't get any sense of _shoutyness_ with female vocals.
Going from the graphs that @Brooko posted in the LZ A4 thread, pretty much all of the Nozzles have more Midrange / Treble energy than the Gray one that I'm using.
So, experimenting with the Front Nozzles, might possibly give you a similar response to that of the Blur.
Changing the Nozzles does definitely alter the sound stage - but it's been a while since I experimented, so I can't remember which one does what...


----------



## MLTKSHHBT

DBaldock9 said:


> The Blur has a 2.5mm TRRS cable, and I had the LZ A4 connected to a VE Espresso (2.5mm TRRS / MMCX cable) - both being used with my Onkyo DP-X1 (which has a more _analytical_, rather than a _warm_ sound).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you conclude that with blur's over the head soundstage(better than LZA4? A review says a4 has got 3D soundstage), it's near to the headphone's?
Since blur is brighter, what genres of music it's best at?


----------



## chinmie (Jul 18, 2017)

KookaBurrra said:


> Really like *DIY EMX500* too !
> 
> Just recabled Vido and Monk Plus to compare it this the same cable than EXM500....



waiting for your impressions


----------



## doggiemom

Where can I purchase the campfred online?  Price info would be appreciated.  Thanks!


----------



## golov17 (Jul 18, 2017)

doggiemom said:


> Where can I purchase the campfred online?  Price info would be appreciated.  Thanks!


@Cyperus
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/c...golden-reference.826036/page-60#post-13601287


----------



## doggiemom

golov17 said:


> @Cyperus
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/c...golden-reference.826036/page-60#post-13601287


Thank you!  Golov17, you are a joy to be around.  (At least in a virtual forum).


----------



## AkashS04

Between SHE3800 and Yincrow X6, which has more thumping and boomy bass and better build quality and durability? And also warmer sound.


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jul 18, 2017)

Anyone knows the difference between K's 300 and the new K's 300 PRO?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...e-Earbud-300ohms-Earbud-Flat/32819960514.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...e-Earbud-300ohms-Earbud-Flat/32823151227.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...e-Earbud-300ohms-Earbud-Flat/32823151227.html

EDIT: both links are for the PRO version.


----------



## Yobster69

Merlin-PT said:


> Anyone knows the difference between K's 300 and the new K's 300 PRO?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...e-Earbud-300ohms-Earbud-Flat/32819960514.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...e-Earbud-300ohms-Earbud-Flat/32823151227.html


I've looked at both and although there are subtle differences in the images, they both say the Pro and look the same. Different sellers though so the descriptions will likely be slightly different. 
I'd say it was the same product.


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jul 18, 2017)

Sorry if I mislead you, I wanted to post more than one shop for the PRO version, those links are both for the new PRO version.

This is the K's 300 model:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...bud-300ohms-Earbud-Flat-Head/32783590564.html

This is the new K's 300 PRO model:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...e-Earbud-300ohms-Earbud-Flat/32819960514.html


----------



## AkashS04

Merlin-PT said:


> Sorry if I mislead you, I wanted to post more than one shop for the PRO version, those links are both for the new PRO version.
> 
> This is the K's 300 model:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...bud-300ohms-Earbud-Flat-Head/32783590564.html
> ...


May not be any change tall.  Only difference is in kind of wire used and upper side Freq response which is 25k and 28k (pro).


----------



## damex

guys, is it possible to make a proper custom fit earbuds out of any of them (design on all of them is pretty much the same except holes/shape)?
i found nice and friendly local company that can do reshells for iems and maybe i can bother them with earbuds later...


----------



## DBaldock9

MLTKSHHBT said:


> Do you conclude that with blur's over the head soundstage(better than LZA4? A review says a4 has got 3D soundstage), it's near to the headphone's?
> Since blur is brighter, what genres of music it's best at?



Listening to some more FLAC files of CD rips, the LZ A4 has a good sized sound stage, it's just not as wide-open sounding as the Blur.
I can say that the Blur is only brighter than my currently selected Gray Front Nozzle on the LZ A4 - which does not have nearly as much Midrange & Treble energy as several of the other nozzles.


----------



## SuperMAG

Can you compare it with black back and black front nozzle, as that one has the biggest soundstage, infact gray has a bit smaller soundstage compared to the rest of nozzles.

What about k 500, which has smother, warmer, thick vocals and bigger soundstage compared to blur, and also which version of blur you have, the 80usd or the 130 or 150.


----------



## AkashS04

DBaldock9 said:


> Listening to some more FLAC files of CD rips, the LZ A4 has a good sized sound stage, it's just not as wide-open sounding as the Blur.
> I can say that the Blur is only brighter than my currently selected Gray Front Nozzle on the LZ A4 - which does not have nearly as much Midrange & Treble energy as several of the other nozzles.


I listened to some original trakcs on iTunes but did not find any difference in terms of quality compare to 128kbps mp3 or 320kbps mp3. Is there any site where FLAC or Lossless files are available to listen and also have songs of other languages like Hindi Language?


----------



## DBaldock9

AkashS04 said:


> I listened to some original trakcs on iTunes but did not find any difference in terms of quality compare to 128kbps mp3 or 320kbps mp3. Is there any site where FLAC or Lossless files are available to listen and also have songs of other languages like Hindi Language?



You can download HD audio in several different formats, including FLAC, from HDtracks [ http://www.hdtracks.com/ ] (in the USA, anyway...)

The FLAC files I was listening to on my Blur and LZ A4, were from rips of my own CDs.


----------



## AkashS04

DBaldock9 said:


> You can download HD audio in several different formats, including FLAC, from HDtracks [ http://www.hdtracks.com/ ] (in the USA, anyway...)
> 
> The FLAC files I was listening to on my Blur and LZ A4, were from rips of my own CDs.


Thanks. I will look into this and see if my like of songs are there or not.


----------



## siderak

I think it's difficult to compare the Blur's to the LZ A4. It's a different experience altogether. Reminds me of the upcoming Mayweather/McGregor fight.
To my ears, the Blur is effortless, clear, naturally open sounding. There is a relaxed clarity that I have yet to find in an iem.
The LZ A4 is great for the money for sure but it is closed and will sound a bit compressed compared to the Blur which has really impressive detail and layering.
For a great all rounder when isolation is needed, I'll reach for the A4 but I'm continually impressed by the Blur's clarity and neutral signature.
If you need that low end thump, the A4 can provide that though I'm really enjoying the CAX Campfred 2 for it's luscious bass...also the detail is unfolding as it burns in.


----------



## DBaldock9

SuperMAG said:


> Can you compare it with black back and black front nozzle, as that one has the biggest soundstage, infact gray has a bit smaller soundstage compared to the rest of nozzles.
> 
> What about k 500, which has smother, warmer, thick vocals and bigger soundstage compared to blur, and also which version of blur you have, the 80usd or the 130 or 150.



I bought the top model of Blur, w/2.5mm TRRS plug.
And, I haven't really done much in the way of comparison listening tests with the rest of my collection.


----------



## DBaldock9

siderak said:


> I think it's difficult to compare the Blur's to the LZ A4. It's a different experience altogether. Reminds me of the upcoming Mayweather/McGregor fight.
> To my ears, the Blur is effortless, clear, naturally open sounding. There is a relaxed clarity that I have yet to find in an iem.
> The LZ A4 is great for the money for sure but it is closed and will sound a bit compressed compared to the Blur which has really impressive detail and layering.
> For a great all rounder when isolation is needed, I'll reach for the A4 but I'm continually impressed by the Blur's clarity and neutral signature.
> If you need that low end thump, the A4 can provide that though I'm really enjoying the CAX Campfred 2 for it's luscious bass...also the detail is unfolding as it burns in.



I agree with @siderak.  I enjoy listening to both the Blur and the LZ A4 (especially with ability to change the tuning of the LZ A4), but even with a big sound stage - the LZ A4 has more of an in-your-head sound (which is sort-of the intent of IEMs, which provide isolation).


----------



## siderak

DBaldock9 said:


> I agree with @siderak.  I enjoy listening to both the Blur and the LZ A4 (especially with ability to change the tuning of the LZ A4), but even with a big sound stage - the LZ A4 has more of an in-your-head sound (which is sort-of the intent of IEMs, which provide isolation).



Agreed. If I had under $500 to spend, I think a compliment of A4's and Blur's would be a really excellent way to go. It would be difficult to choose between them if my budget was $200 but ultimately I think I'd give up the isolation of iem's and choose Blur. They really are sooo good. My ss preference is neutral and clean/clear. To me they sound a bit like really nice bookshelf speakers, which I love. If I want to bring out the sub frequencies, I can always use a bit of bass boost but I'm not really ever missing that. 

I don't have any balanced sources. I'm so curious of how your balanced blurs sound compared to my unbalanced! Congrats again!


----------



## ctaxxxx

DBaldock9 said:


> I bought the top model of Blur, w/2.5mm TRRS plug.
> And, I haven't really done much in the way of comparison listening tests with the rest of my collection.



So glad you mentioned this. I forgot Blur was 300 ohms, so I just messaged Wong to also make it a 2.5mm plug. I remembered the Zen being harder to drive due to the 300 ohm driver.


----------



## MLTKSHHBT (Jul 18, 2017)

siderak said:


> Agreed. If I had under $500 to spend, I think a compliment of A4's and Blur's would be a really excellent way to go. It would be difficult to choose between them if my budget was $200 but ultimately I think I'd give up the isolation of iem's and choose Blur. They really are sooo good. My ss preference is neutral and clean/clear. To me they sound a bit like really nice bookshelf speakers, which I love. If I want to bring out the sub frequencies, I can always use a bit of bass boost but I'm not really ever missing that.
> 
> I don't have any balanced sources. I'm so curious of how your balanced blurs sound compared to my unbalanced! Congrats again!


I'm really tempted!
I was starting from iPod's white earbuds, then went straight to iems, I have to readjust to convince myself to go back to earbuds  again
Can you elaborate on blur's bass some more?(which version are you having?). I have a 6ba iem which is fabulous in vocals, but bass a not profound enough at times for me.
Around the similar price bracket, what do you think of ve  Zen compared to blur?


----------



## MLTKSHHBT

ctaxxxx said:


> So glad you mentioned this. I forgot Blur was 300 ohms, so I just messaged Wong to also make it a 2.5mm plug. I remembered the Zen being harder to drive due to the 300 ohm driver.


What adaptor you are going to use when connects to 3.5mm se?


----------



## siderak (Jul 18, 2017)

MLTKSHHBT said:


> I'm really tempted!
> I was starting from iPod's white earbuds, then went straight to iems, I have to readjust to convince myself to go back to earbuds  again
> Can you elaborate on blur's bass some more?(which version are you having?). I have a 6ba iem which is fabulous in vocals, but bass a not profound enough at times for me.
> Around the similar price bracket, what do you think of ve  Zen compared to blur?



I've never heard the Zen and am myself just a few months into earbuds after several years of finding the right headphone/iem's. You can check my profile page to see other earbuds I've heard/owned.
I can tell you that I find I prefer earbuds to iem's in general. I try to tolerate the vacuum feeling and I do need isolation for traveling or blocking out some environmental situations (like the HVAC at work) but earbuds really are much more comfortable. They feel and sound natural to me. I'm happy to have found a community pushing the limits to produce such surprisingly high quality sound.
Other favorites in my inventory are the mrspeakers ether c 1.1's and isine 20's but to tell you the truth, I'm reaching for the Blur (silver version unbalanced) more than the rest. The ether's have a touch more resolution and sound a tad bigger. The isine's are clean and very versatile with the app eq, maybe a tiny bit more open? but the blur's are just so easy to grab and the sound is...addictive. It's simply amazing that an earbud can hang in the same league as the others. The signature is neutral. The bass is there just not most prominent. It's a very balanced sound and the separation really allows all frequencies (including highly resolved bass) to have their own space. They respond well to eq but I don't feel I need it. I use these for music. I have others for watching movies but these were made for all music old and new. Five weeks in, I'm still very excited about them. I just ordered another pair (black version) just to have a backup! Can't really recommend anything else more highly under say $400? Maybe more. I think they're really special.


----------



## noknok23

@siderak please do comparison between black version and the one you own when you can, I always wondered how different they sounded. Thanks a lot for your feedback


----------



## siderak

noknok23 said:


> @siderak please do comparison between black version and the one you own when you can, I always wondered how different they sounded. Thanks a lot for your feedback


Happy to. Also very curious. I just ordered today and they were already built and ready to go. I'm thinking they're probably a couple weeks out give or take. Will definitely follow up shortly after.


----------



## MLTKSHHBT

siderak said:


> Happy to. Also very curious. I just ordered today and they were already built and ready to go. I'm thinking they're probably a couple weeks out give or take. Will definitely follow up shortly after.


There must be something special about it to make you as a returning customer!
Wong suggests to "try out" the black blur(魔女？) but I wouldn't in the hobby of keeping too many pairs of earphones, I would go for the silver one once I make up my mind.


----------



## chaiyuta

Did anyone buy Blur 魔王 yet?


----------



## noknok23

chaiyuta said:


> Did anyone buy Blur 魔王 yet?


One or two persons bought it on the earbuds anonymous group and are supposed to post feedback there... Still waiting


----------



## siderak

chaiyuta said:


> Did anyone buy Blur 魔王 yet?


I wish. I'm in line for one. He's waiting for the silver housings. They are made in Japan.


----------



## DBaldock9

MLTKSHHBT said:


> What adaptor you are going to use when connects to 3.5mm se?



I've purchased a couple of 3.5mm TRS Plug to 2.5mm TRRS Jack adapters from Lindsay, at Impact Audio Cables.
One is a custom 12" cable, and the other is a single piece adapter.
Both use Eidolic connectors, so they're fairly expensive (~$50)


----------



## cigarello

Anyone know where to buy VE MP foams from? I'm using Heigi atm but want to try MP to see how they compare thanks


----------



## siderak

cigarello said:


> Anyone know where to buy VE MP foams from? I'm using Heigi atm but want to try MP to see how they compare thanks



https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...32417311324.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.0xcdCp

you have to select the "ex pack" without headphone. It's $4


----------



## audio123

enjoy reading!

https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/ty-hi-z-150s.22531/reviews


----------



## noknok23

Very informative review, I wonder if tuning differ for balanced version. A while ago Anyang Su said it is not responsible to do same tuning for balanced version.

Btw, as I understood , 3.5 mm gold cable has a treble emphasis and is easier to drive. (It is stated that iPhone can drive it)
Rose gold share same properties as gold but is limited edition. Fancy rose gold...

The one that audio123 reviewed is the platinum rhodium one, better for hi-fi dap with decent power output.


----------



## audio123

noknok23 said:


> Very informative review, I wonder if tuning differ for balanced version. A while ago Anyang Su said it is not responsible to do same tuning for balanced version.
> 
> Btw, as I understood , 3.5 mm gold cable has a treble emphasis and is easier to drive. (It is stated that iPhone can drive it)
> Rose gold share same properties as gold but is limited edition. Fancy rose gold...
> ...


thank you for your kind words. glad you find it useful.


----------



## noknok23

audio123 said:


> thank you for your kind words. glad you find it useful.


Do you have by any chance the blur? They are very transparent too with a big soundstage. Though they seems to be relatively more mid centric than 150s


----------



## audio123

noknok23 said:


> Do you have by any chance the blur? They are very transparent too with a big soundstage. Though they seems to be relatively more mid centric than 150s


i ordered already. now i am waiting.


----------



## cigarello

siderak said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...32417311324.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.0xcdCp
> 
> you have to select the "ex pack" without headphone. It's $4



Thank you! Will order some!

Also, whast the best tutorial on recabling an earbud?


----------



## noknok23

Nicehck diy pk2 need long burn in. Like, damn long. I think when the cable start to become green you can say they are mature. A neutral to bright source is imperative or they will sound messy with bleeding lower mids.
Using ice cold source, I have a clear midbass, relatively tight and sweet mids.
The sof high roll off makes them tiring free.


----------



## mag8

Who can recommend one over the other?

I'm looking at buying either the Monk+ or the Faael 32ohm. I need a microphone as they will be my daily beater.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIF...lgo_pvid=d93fccbe-0638-498e-be9a-e507cda0deba

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MON...lgo_pvid=a1b2ef79-e424-4c40-8d7f-baacd7bb6701


----------



## AkashS04

What is Balanced earbuds? No Bass and No Treble and Flat sounding ones? Like Monk+?


----------



## Makahl

mag8 said:


> Who can recommend one over the other?
> 
> I'm looking at buying either the Monk+ or the Faael 32ohm. I need a microphone as they will be my daily beater.
> 
> ...




I'd rather go with Vido, most of the enthusiasts on this thread prefer it over Monk+ and there's a mic option as well. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...ug-Earbud-Bass-HIFI-Earphone/32806045266.html


----------



## ctaxxxx (Jul 19, 2017)

MLTKSHHBT said:


> What adaptor you are going to use when connects to 3.5mm se?



I bought this one HERE _(fixed link)_.

I originally bought the one from Brimar Audio but they never notified me of any shipment or tracking notification, even after several emails. It's already been over a month and had to open a PayPal case...


----------



## wskl

noknok23 said:


> Nicehck diy pk2 need long burn in. Like, damn long. I think when the cable start to become green you can say they are mature. A neutral to bright source is imperative or they will sound messy with bleeding lower mids.
> Using ice cold source, I have a clear midbass, relatively tight and sweet mids.
> The sof high roll off makes them tiring free.



My pair started to sound really great at around 200hrs.  Before that, I thought they were not airy enough because I had some albums which showed signs of congestion, but now it is gone, I think soundstage is a little wider too compared to before.

I actually prefer listening to them using a warm source (Zishan Z1, Walnut V2) because it produces a more analog-like sound.


----------



## golov17

mag8 said:


> Who can recommend...  I need a microphone as they will be my daily beater.


 http://s.aliexpress.com/RNvAjeyu


----------



## MLTKSHHBT

ctaxxxx said:


> I bought this one HERE _(fixed link)_.
> 
> I originally bought the one from Brimar Audio but they never notified me of any shipment or tracking notification, even after several emails. It's already been over a month and had to open a PayPal case...


This is quite expensive and it does not ship to my country.
A slightly cheaper one recommended by David,
https://www.etsy.com/listing/528113...25mm-trrs-to-35mm-trs?ref=shop_home_active_20


----------



## Saoshyant

golov17 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/RNvAjeyu



Have you tried it personally, or is there a chance they're just selling on the EMX500 name?


----------



## ctaxxxx

MLTKSHHBT said:


> This is quite expensive and it does not ship to my country.
> A slightly cheaper one recommended by David,
> https://www.etsy.com/listing/528113...25mm-trrs-to-35mm-trs?ref=shop_home_active_20



Yeah it is, but I wanted a L shaped plug so it wouldn't stick out too much when using another straight plug. Also, my phones that do use 2.5mm trrs are also L shaped, so it works out.


----------



## sagor1

which one i should i consider?
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...MONK-earbud-earphone/1924356_32417311324.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ohms-Earbud-Flat-Head/519064_32780855048.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...id=96a2407b-52ba-45f4-8b82-efbf608e4c97&tpp=1
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/K-s...id=186f9c6b-e3c0-4fc5-b27c-c70ec0d1aa31&tpp=1


----------



## teesui

AkashS04 said:


> What is Balanced earbuds? No Bass and No Treble and Flat sounding ones? Like Monk+?



In this case, the balanced refers to the end termination. Normal audio jacks would have the negative of the Left and Right channel shared, In a proper balanced termination, you have something like TRRS plug, where the + and - of each channel are terminated separately.

Here's a pic I found off the internet that shows the difference between an unbalanced (TRS) and a balanced (TRRS) jack. 

(Note: Not all TRRS jacks are  balanced. TRRS jacks are also used for earphones with mics.)


----------



## AkashS04

teesui said:


> In this case, the balanced refers to the end termination. Normal audio jacks would have the negative of the Left and Right channel shared, In a proper balanced termination, you have something like TRRS plug, where the + and - of each channel are terminated separately.
> 
> Here's a pic I found off the internet that shows the difference between an unbalanced (TRS) and a balanced (TRRS) jack.
> 
> (Note: Not all TRRS jacks are  balanced. TRRS jacks are also used for earphones with mics.)


Thanks. Trying to understand more. Got some info that it is Tip-Ring-Sleeve Vs Tip-Ring-Ring-Sleeve. So if I understand correct, Balanced one does not have any leaning towards Left or Right channel. Right?  I saw that SHE3800 is TRS while Vido and Monk+ is TRRS. However,  I found Monk+ sound not exactly balanced and more prominent on right ride actually.


----------



## AkashS04

sagor1 said:


> which one i should i consider?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...MONK-earbud-earphone/1924356_32417311324.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ohms-Earbud-Flat-Head/519064_32780855048.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...id=96a2407b-52ba-45f4-8b82-efbf608e4c97&tpp=1
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/K-s...id=186f9c6b-e3c0-4fc5-b27c-c70ec0d1aa31&tpp=1



I believe except Monk+, all will be more or less same sound. Monk+ does not have any bass at all and flat sounding. I did not hear rest but looks like K's 64 and K300 should have very boomy bass.


----------



## Saoshyant

teesui said:


> In this case, the balanced refers to the end termination. Normal audio jacks would have the negative of the Left and Right channel shared, In a proper balanced termination, you have something like TRRS plug, where the + and - of each channel are terminated separately.
> 
> Here's a pic I found off the internet that shows the difference between an unbalanced (TRS) and a balanced (TRRS) jack.
> 
> (Note: Not all TRRS jacks are  balanced. TRRS jacks are also used for earphones with mics.)



There's also a somewhat silly amount of balanced connections vs single ended.  Just to name a few examples:  2.5mm TRRS, 3.5mm TRRS, Sony's 4.4mm, RSA/ALO, XLR 4 pin, dual XLR 3 pin, Pono's 2 jack balanced setup, and I'm sure something else I'm forgetting which probably involves a Jacob's Ladder.


----------



## Saoshyant (Jul 19, 2017)

AkashS04 said:


> Thanks. Trying to understand more. Got some info that it is Tip-Ring-Sleeve Vs Tip-Ring-Ring-Sleeve. So if I understand correct, Balanced one does not have any leaning towards Left or Right channel. Right?  I saw that SHE3800 is TRS while Vido and Monk+ is TRRS. However,  I found Monk+ sound not exactly balanced and more prominent on right ride actually.



It's kind of a minor annoyance to me that balanced can refer to two entirely different things in audio.  A balanced sound for example has nothing to do with a balanced jack which is purely about separating the ground from being shared to a ground for left and a ground for right.  Think of jump starting a car where the negative or ground is not shared, but a different one for both the right and left side.  The standard connection, which is also known as TRS or single ended, shares a ground between the two.  You can't just look at the jacks in a picture to know if something is balanced or single ended because any earbud using a mic will use TRRS as well, so you have to look for one advertising a balanced connector.  The most common for earbuds is 2.5mm TRRS, where 3.5mm TRRS is a bit less common and only used by a couple companies like Hifiman or LH Labs.  Most likely, this is to lessen confusion due to the commonplace use of 3.5 TTRS with mics.

Edit:  Ignore the jump start analogy, I'm tired and it doesn't work.  Apparently some sleepy part of my brain was thinking of some odd car with two batteries, which might exist but I can't think of it.


----------



## golov17

Saoshyant said:


> Have you tried it personally, or is there a chance they're just selling on the EMX500 name?


Not tried, but why not?? Just send message to seller..


----------



## knudsen (Jul 19, 2017)

Saoshyant said:


> Have you tried it personally, or is there a chance they're just selling on the EMX500 name?


Haven't tried, but they're advertised as 16ohms. Someone asked in a thread some time ago, and we all had gotten 32ohms EMX500 as far as I remember, even though some were advertised as 64. But who knows if they're really 16.. I would think they're the same Fengru, and the seller is just copy/pasting from another seller who were copy/pasting from... god knows what


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Well, any Seahf AWK32F love here?

More I listen to them more the love story grow and grow hehe

 

Quite neutral and detailed, never distort wathever you trow at them, punchy and very well resolved bass, not lot of decay and a little brightish (without sibilance for now) but I find it to deal very well with complexe ultra layered track. Mids a not veil at all too....cable is a little sticky (if I must find negative aspect). For sound, I would have like more deepness cause it's presented like a tapestry. 
When I compare the 32F to Qian39 I understand why I find the 39 too midcentric sometime....the 32F feel more mature and balanced and way more detailed!


----------



## noknok23

@Saoshyant  In France we actually call it "symmetrical output" for balanced  plug which make more sense technically and avoid the confusion


----------



## ATi7500

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...7.html?spm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.298.yYhT8o

I thought this is the "original" EMX500...


----------



## sagor1

AkashS04 said:


> I believe except Monk+, all will be more or less same sound. Monk+ does not have any bass at all and flat sounding. I did not hear rest but looks like K's 64 and K300 should have very boomy bass.


Thanx for the suggestion.But I am gonna using the earphone with my Lg g6 (quad dac),so my question is will it  boost the bass on Monk+?
The question i ask for only because i hear lots of about Monk+,but as like you neither i can't find other earphone review on the internet.


----------



## DBaldock9

SuperMAG said:


> Can you compare it with black back and black front nozzle, as that one has the biggest soundstage, infact gray has a bit smaller soundstage compared to the rest of nozzles.
> 
> What about k 500, which has smother, warmer, thick vocals and bigger soundstage compared to blur, and also which version of blur you have, the 80usd or the 130 or 150.



Doing a small amount of comparing (without doing any critical level matching), using this set-up:
LZ A4 - on VE Espresso 2.5mm TRRS to MMCX cable, Spiral Dot Large Tips, Black Back Filter / Red & Black Nozzle Filters.
Blur - 2.5mm TRRS, with Hiegi Donut Foam, under Hiegi Full Foam.
K's 500 - 2.5mm TRRS, with double Hiegi Donut Foams.
Connected to the 2.5mm Balanced output on my Onkyo DP-X1, Digital Filter = Short, No EQ.
Playing FLAC files of my CD rips - mainly tracks from my *Iona* (UK progressive Celtic rock band) albums, with vocals by Joanne Hogg.

Once I switched away from the Gray Nozzle Filters, the A4 is now a bit _brighter_ than the other two.
The Blur is in the middle - response-wise.
The K's 500 is slightly _warmer_ than the Blur.


----------



## AkashS04

sagor1 said:


> Thanx for the suggestion.But I am gonna using the earphone with my Lg g6 (quad dac),so my question is will it  boost the bass on Monk+?
> The question i ask for only because i hear lots of about Monk+,but as like you neither i can't find other earphone review on the internet.



Monk+ are just Ok but do not have bass. Bass and Monk+ do not go well with each others. For bass, you can try PowerAmp. Excellent music player for Android. I have paid version ($3.99 for lifetime). 15 days full trial version you can try and I am sure you won't go back to any player after listening to that. I know bcoz you are using Mobile Phone, you want earbud with mic just like me. You ca try SHE3800 with mic (search on lunashop.com). $12.99 but excellent in Bass area. Very boomy bass.


----------



## ctaxxxx

siderak said:


> I've never heard the Zen and am myself just a few months into earbuds after several years of finding the right headphone/iem's. You can check my profile page to see other earbuds I've heard/owned.
> I can tell you that I find I prefer earbuds to iem's in general. I try to tolerate the vacuum feeling and I do need isolation for traveling or blocking out some environmental situations (like the HVAC at work) but earbuds really are much more comfortable. They feel and sound natural to me. I'm happy to have found a community pushing the limits to produce such surprisingly high quality sound.
> Other favorites in my inventory are the mrspeakers ether c 1.1's and isine 20's but to tell you the truth, I'm reaching for the Blur (silver version unbalanced) more than the rest. The ether's have a touch more resolution and sound a tad bigger. The isine's are clean and very versatile with the app eq, maybe a tiny bit more open? but the blur's are just so easy to grab and the sound is...addictive. It's simply amazing that an earbud can hang in the same league as the others. The signature is neutral. The bass is there just not most prominent. It's a very balanced sound and the separation really allows all frequencies (including highly resolved bass) to have their own space. They respond well to eq but I don't feel I need it. I use these for music. I have others for watching movies but these were made for all music old and new. Five weeks in, I'm still very excited about them. I just ordered another pair (black version) just to have a backup! Can't really recommend anything else more highly under say $400? Maybe more. I think they're really special.



How are the iSine 20's? Specifically the mids and bass. I've been looking for an earbud that are essentially mini LCD 2s, but only the QFred's come close to it. Maybe if it had the bass of the CampFred's and better resolution... Was wondering if maybe I just need to sell some buds to get an iSine 20 instead, or an LCDi4 (lol jk nope... Not paying 2.5k for an IEM).


----------



## sagor1

AkashS04 said:


> Monk+ are just Ok but do not have bass. Bass and Monk+ do not go well with each others. For bass, you can try PowerAmp. Excellent music player for Android. I have paid version ($3.99 for lifetime). 15 days full trial version you can try and I am sure you won't go back to any player after listening to that. I know bcoz you are using Mobile Phone, you want earbud with mic just like me. You ca try SHE3800 with mic (search on lunashop.com). $12.99 but excellent in Bass area. Very boomy bass.


Hmm...than i will go with 2nd link *K's 64*.I know the poweramp,but it won't work with the quad dac.my only purpose buy this earphone for utilize the quad dac which needs 50+ohm earphone to trigger it.i am currently using apple earpod.so i don't mind weather it's have mic or not.
Btw your mentioned earphone model is from Philips right?I guess it has low impedance,so it's out of league.


----------



## AkashS04

sagor1 said:


> Hmm...than i will go with 2nd link *K's 64*.I know the poweramp,but it won't work with the quad dac.my only purpose buy this earphone for utilize the quad dac which needs 50+ohm earphone to trigger it.i am currently using apple earpod.so i don't mind weather it's have mic or not.
> Btw your mentioned earphone model is from Philips right?I guess it has low impedance,so it's out of league.


Ok. If no mic is fine, then K64 is good too. Should have boomy bass. I am also looking for the same but with mic only. I do have earbud with mic but I want one in all so don't want to change it when I get call and then change again to listen to the music. I guess PowerAmp also need high impedence buds. What is Quad DAC? Does it has in-built audio player like PowerAmp?


----------



## sagor1

AkashS04 said:


> Ok. If no mic is fine, then K64 is good too. Should have boomy bass. I am also looking for the same but with mic only. I do have earbud with mic but I want one in all so don't want to change it when I get call and then change again to listen to the music. I guess PowerAmp also need high impedence buds. What is Quad DAC? Does it has in-built audio player like PowerAmp?


I am not audiophile,but i guess everyone here more or less know what is dac.
here is a article-
https://www.headphone.com/pages/what-is-a-dac
here is a short video demonstration 

I hope it will help you.
Best of luck


----------



## rkw

sagor1 said:


> i hear lots of about Monk+,but as like you neither i can't find other earphone review on the internet.


Seriously, you can't find reviews? Start here: https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/category/earbuds.290/, and that's just the formal review section. There are hundreds more informal reviews scattered through threads including this one. Use Google to find reviews on other websites.


----------



## teesui

AkashS04 said:


> Ok. If no mic is fine, then K64 is good too. Should have boomy bass. I am also looking for the same but with mic only. I do have earbud with mic but I want one in all so don't want to change it when I get call and then change again to listen to the music. I guess PowerAmp also need high impedence buds. What is Quad DAC? Does it has in-built audio player like PowerAmp?



The link below is a pretty decent article (imo) that explains what Quad DAC is. btw. DAC stands for Digital-Analog Converter. all phones have it. Some is built-in as part of the SoC processor (pretty much phones that use Snapdragon processors)....some have dedicated DACs like  LG V20, some G6 versions and the G6+, Samsung phones that use an Exynos chipset.... 
http://www.androidauthority.com/lg-v20-quad-dac-explained-713587/

to tie it into earbuds....the LG phones w/ quad dac will probably be able to drive higher-impedance buds to comfortable listening levels, but these phones comprises only a small percentage of the market. so it doesn't make sense for earbud makers to cater high impedance buds to the mobile phone market. 

Have you thought of using a buds w/o mic and just holding the phone and speaking into the phone's mic instead as a possible workaround.

If not, maybe you can learn yourself on building your own buds. your own earbuds with booming base, flat cable and mic that works with your mobile phone. If you don't know, I'm sure there are resources out there in the DIY forum, YT and rest of the internet. As Ms.Frizzle says "Take chances, make mistakes, get messy!"


----------



## AkashS04

teesui said:


> The link below is a pretty decent article (imo) that explains what Quad DAC is. btw. DAC stands for Digital-Analog Converter. all phones have it. Some is built-in as part of the SoC processor (pretty much phones that use Snapdragon processors)....some have dedicated DACs like  LG V20, some G6 versions and the G6+, Samsung phones that use an Exynos chipset....
> http://www.androidauthority.com/lg-v20-quad-dac-explained-713587/
> 
> to tie it into earbuds....the LG phones w/ quad dac will probably be able to drive higher-impedance buds to comfortable listening levels, but these phones comprises only a small percentage of the market. so it doesn't make sense for earbud makers to cater high impedance buds to the mobile phone market.
> ...


Difficult for me to make my own or do changes but I am surely interested to try that. Might try in near future though.


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jul 19, 2017)

sagor1 said:


> which one i should i consider?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...MONK-earbud-earphone/1924356_32417311324.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ohms-Earbud-Flat-Head/519064_32780855048.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...id=96a2407b-52ba-45f4-8b82-efbf608e4c97&tpp=1
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/K-s...id=186f9c6b-e3c0-4fc5-b27c-c70ec0d1aa31&tpp=1



I like the K's 300, to me it has very detailed sound, no frequency range overcomes the others, voices are very detailed, but above all it is not tiring, highs are detailed without being piercing...For me it's difficult to describe k300 sound, it's different from the other earbuds I have.
It sounds natural and detailed without being tiring. It doesn't have huge bass, but bass is also there. I use it to listen to jazz, bossa nova, music with acoustic instruments and voices.
It's also good for audio books and movies, because voice is very articulated, English is not my first language and K300 is the best to clear understand speech. Bass is not very powerful, so I don't think they appeal to everyone.

K's 64 voices lack body, the voice sound in a higher frequency than the original, because it lacks the lower frequencies, it changes the tone of the voice. I'm not sure if tone is the correct word, my vocabulary is limited. Because of this I don't like k64 for voices.

I also like EB200, they have detail and bass, but I don't use them much.

I also like warm sound but I prefer a brighter more detailed sound, but not too bright.
Because of this I like Toneking Tomahawk, HE 150, DIY EMX500, Puresounds PS100 150, K300.
If you prefer warm sound, there's also Vido, Monk+, Yincrow X6, Faaeal 64.
My experience is very limited, there are many other earbuds I don't have.
Let's see what others say about their preferences, but I think you'll have to buy some of them, because personal preference plays a huge role in sound.


----------



## tamburlane

Merlin-PT said:


> I like the K's 300, to me it has very detailed sound, no frequency range overcomes the others, voices are very detailed, but above all it is not tiring, highs are detailed without being piercing...For me it's difficult to describe k300 sound, it's different from the other earbuds I have.
> It sounds natural and detailed without being tiring. It doesn't have huge bass, but bass is also there. I use it to listen to jazz, bossa nova, music with acoustic instruments and voices.
> It's also good for audio books and movies, because voice is very articulated, English is not my first language and K300 is the best to clear understand speech. Bass is not very powerful, so I don't think they appeal to everyone.
> 
> ...


----------



## MLTKSHHBT

BloodyPenguin said:


> I currently have 3 models of the "NoSounD" DIY Brand.  Out of the three, the original Blur version is just fantastically clear and accurate.  I've been meaning to get a full review of it done, but I have been swamped with family life lately and have not had a chance.
> 
> I actually have a few earbuds I REALLY need to find time to review;  The VE Asura, MusicMaker Ting Light and of course the aforementioned NoSounD Blur.  All of which are great earbuds, but different.
> 
> ...


I spotted this old post. Which is the original blur out of the 3 models that are available now?


----------



## siderak

ctaxxxx said:


> How are the iSine 20's? Specifically the mids and bass. I've been looking for an earbud that are essentially mini LCD 2s, but only the QFred's come close to it. Maybe if it had the bass of the CampFred's and better resolution... Was wondering if maybe I just need to sell some buds to get an iSine 20 instead, or an LCDi4 (lol jk nope... Not paying 2.5k for an IEM).


If you go for them, make sure to get the cipher cable. I think they're great! Wait for your Blurs first though!


----------



## sagor1

Merlin-PT said:


> I like the K's 300, to me it has very detailed sound, no frequency range overcomes the others, voices are very detailed, but above all it is not tiring, highs are detailed without being piercing...For me it's difficult to describe k300 sound, it's different from the other earbuds I have.
> It sounds natural and detailed without being tiring. It doesn't have huge bass, but bass is also there. I use it to listen to jazz, bossa nova, music with acoustic instruments and voices.
> It's also good for audio books and movies, because voice is very articulated, English is not my first language and K300 is the best to clear understand speech. Bass is not very powerful, so I don't think they appeal to everyone.
> 
> ...


Wow so many experiences.Because of English is not your 1st language just like mine you explain your experience with very simple vocabulary & less technical word which helps me a lot,hehehe.
K's 300 is final for me.


----------



## mag8

I apologise in advance if this question has been asked already, but i can't find any info on it

is there any review that compares the "entry level" chi-fi earbuds to any of the common earuds (eg: apple earpods that everyone has with their iphone)?

I consider the apple ones to be quite ok for everyday use, and i personally find the shape quite better than the "flathead" ones, but i realise i might be the minority


----------



## cigarello

So this is going to sound stupid to some people but I tried to recable my Vido with my VE Monk+ cable today because I hate the asymmetric 'J' cable and the cables are incompatible with each other by the looks of it. The Vido just sounded so distant and quiet and was crackling as I turned up my amp. So instead I just cut the right long cable of the Vido cable and made it symmetric myself. 

Anyway, does anyone know where to buy some good pre-braided cables on ali? I just want something that comes already braided with a 3.5mm jack and all I have to do is solder the left and right channels to my vido drivers. Thanks!


----------



## KookaBurrra

cigarello said:


> Anyway, does anyone know where to buy some good pre-braided cables on ali? I just want something that comes already braided with a 3.5mm jack and all I have to do is solder the left and right channels to my vido drivers. Thanks!



https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-...-Headset-Wire-DIY-Headphone/32802373479.html?
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/Newe...Wire-DIY-Headphone-Earphone/32802389296.html?
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/New-...-Headset-Wire-DIY-Headphone/32802441039.html?

See my older posts, I recable Vido and Monk+ with these cables... ^-^


----------



## cigarello

KookaBurrra said:


> https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-...-Headset-Wire-DIY-Headphone/32802373479.html?
> https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/Newe...Wire-DIY-Headphone-Earphone/32802389296.html?
> https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/New-...-Headset-Wire-DIY-Headphone/32802441039.html?
> 
> See my older posts, I recable Vido and Monk+ with these cables... ^-^



Thank so much! Are those the only options? And did you notice a better sound or is it just for durability/looks?


----------



## Makahl

Can you guys listen to a difference between Zen 2 and Zen 2 black?

Black version:


Standard: 


I was a bit skeptical about the differences among those versions but assuming any fit changes can shift the FR I'd say at least in that scenario the Black version looks crisper and more mature sound. IMO, not a $150 difference but this video is just a fraction of the real world, so, take with a grain of salt.


----------



## B9Scrambler

My review of the Rose Masya for anyone that's been interested in that model. Overall thoughts is that they are an excellent ear bud with great comfort and a well-rounded, versatile signature that can every once in a while show some unneeded treble energy. Other than that, it's awesome.

https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/rose-masya.22316/reviews#review-18889


  ​


----------



## ricesteam

Anyone know of an earbud that has a similar (or same) sound signature to the original monks. Any of the TY HI-z or Sheahf models?


----------



## AkashS04

Every time I hear my original Apple Earbuds which came with iPod Nano 1st gen, I eel that clarity wise no other buds can meet that standard, Still really sweet warm sound. Not sure why Apple decided to go for earpod which is not comfortable at all. In fact later released earbuds were also not this much good.


----------



## AkashS04

Any earbud which has 1x1 sound signature like SHE3800?


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Anyone own a Monk Plus SPC ? If so Could you share some feedback?


----------



## doggiemom

MidNighTempest said:


> Anyone own a Monk Plus SPC ? If so Could you share some feedback?


Try my post here:
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1434#post-13602551


----------



## LetheFB

Hi mates
Is there anyone who has bought a diy pk2 with black cable? If so, is there any sonic difference between the white cabled one?


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

doggiemom said:


> Try my post here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1434#post-13602551



Kool, Thanks!


----------



## Ira Delphic

LetheFB said:


> Hi mates
> Is there anyone who has bought a diy pk2 with black cable? If so, is there any sonic difference between the white cabled one?



I have both, no difference according to my listening tests. Also confirmed with nicehck.


----------



## Mahathera

Ira Delphic said:


> I have both, no difference according to my listening tests. Also confirmed with nicehck.


Are you thinking to buy extra ? I bought the white cable one, now it is turning green.
Not really a subtle.sight in office.


----------



## ctaxxxx (Jul 21, 2017)

So, I found some foams in my stock that were very similar to the Hiegi Donut Foams, but *thicker*. I remembered they came with the Edimun V3 earbuds. Listened to them and was surprised to hear they boost the bass even more so than generic thick foams! I put these on the CampFred 2, and the sub-bass was insane! A lot of rumble, maybe too much on some songs lol. And since they are donut foams, the highs aren't washed out (as much). I think it does make it more V-shaped though. Still interesting. Might keep them on.

Edit: Maybe keep them on the QFred buds instead...


----------



## Saoshyant

ctaxxxx said:


> So, I found some foams in my stock that were very similar to the Hiegi Donut Foams, but *thicker*. I remembered they came with the Edimun V3 earbuds. Listened to them and was surprised to hear they boost the bass even more so than generic thick foams! I put these on the CampFred 2, and the sub-bass was insane! A lot of rumble, maybe too much on some songs lol. And since they are donut foams, the highs aren't washed out (as much). I think it does make it more V-shaped though. Still interesting. Might keep them on.
> 
> Edit: Maybe keep them on the QFred buds instead...



I need these foams


----------



## Frederick Wang (Jul 22, 2017)

This Blur earbuds by Mr. Wong seem very interesting. I understand there is cable difference between 魔声 and 魔音 versions, but how is the sound differences?
And how about this newer 魔王（devil king）version, the name suggests they are the king...


----------



## Ira Delphic

Mahathera said:


> Are you thinking to buy extra ? I bought the white cable one, now it is turning green.
> Not really a subtle.sight in office.



I got the silver cable version (yup turned green too!) and like it so much got the black as a backup pair. The cord that with the plug/jack in the middle is kind of useful since I sometimes use an inline mechanical control. Love the DIY PK2 as an all rounder!


----------



## tinkertailor

AkashS04 said:


> Any earbud which has 1x1 sound signature like SHE3800?



I can think of one.


----------



## Robert Turnbull

AkashS04 said:


> Any earbud which has 1x1 sound signature like SHE3800?


Have you tried the Edifier H180? I find its like a more refined SHE3800.. there is a P180 which is a mic version of the H180


----------



## ctaxxxx

Updated my Shozy BK earbud impressions, added the Moondrop Liebesleid and EMX500 impressions, and added a short statement for (almost) each TOTL bud that describes what headphone they sound closest too (from what I've heard).

In the end, I think I prefered the Shozy BK over the Liebesleid. However, I still prefer Diomnes over both of them and I've been thinking of selling all the other TOTL buds I no longer listen too. This would include CAX Black, Liebesleid, CampFred 1, and (maybe) Shozy BK and QFred. 

Looking for a new warm / mid-champion bud too, since I'm not feeling the QFred's anymore, so I might do another Ali order with other competing buds. What other TOTL warm / mid-focused buds are there? Maybe Yinman 600, Rose Masya, and TY Hi-Z HP650?


----------



## kurtextrem

I think the next "mid" champion would be TY Hi-Z 150s according to the developer of it (took 6 month research to do or so and someone compared it to Zen2 and found it even or better?)


----------



## KookaBurrra (Jul 24, 2017)

ctaxxxx said:


> Looking for a new warm / mid-champion bud too, since I'm not feeling the QFred's anymore, so I might do another Ali order with other competing buds. What other TOTL warm / mid-focused buds are there? Maybe Yinman 600, Rose Masya, and TY Hi-Z HP650?



It would really great if you can add HP650 to your collection and compare it with all your fantastics earbuds !!



kurtextrem said:


> I think the next "mid" champion would be TY Hi-Z 150s according to the developer of it (took 6 month research to do or so and someone compared it to Zen2 and found it even or better?)



Hum Hum. I think - for the moment - that the TY Hi-Z conceptor is a great communicator and really understand how to talk (and sell ?) about his products on Facebook..... The "buzz" he created for this 150s is really very smart and intelligent because everyone think is a "killer TOTL earbuds" but without having testing it! Bingo! And he can increase the price from 22$ (HP150) to 43$ (HP150s) without any complain : great great job indeed? 

It's like when every seller on Aliexpress saids "Monk Killer" on the title of every earbuds : Do you believe them all, without asking you questions?


----------



## kurtextrem

Well, I waited for reviews and there are reviews now. Also more and more ppl have it in the Earbuds Anonymous group, so we'll get more reviews soon. 
https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/ty-hi-z-150s.22531/reviews


----------



## cocolinho

If they claim hp150s to beat or at least to compete with totl earbuds for usd45 I don't think it would be smart at all if not true actually.
Everyone will jump on these hp150s (like I did) , but if they disappoint, trust will be hurt big time which is the the worst thing  which can happen for a company...


----------



## noknok23

So far, feedbacks on 150s are highly positive but they seems to be v shaped with transparent sound. Nothing to compare with the Zen 2.0


I agree marketing was on point and very well made. A big announcement with bold statement on the first day. Then l, the day after a full written review from I guess an early owner. And one feedback from Japan on Aliexpress order. All this is very well coordinated.

It worked for me, I grabbed the balanced one...


----------



## cigarello

To anyone else who owns a pair of Shozy BK, does either of your channels distort in the lows at higher levels? 

My Stardusts/BK's are pretty much brand new and when listening to music with a lot of lows and bumping up the volume a bit high, I can hear a rattle in the left channel as the bass hits. Along with this is that my Vido are pretty much 90% as good as these thus making me think my pair of Stardusts could potentially be faulty? I really don't know but for $165, these are definitely not worth the asking price imo. I am running them through either a Zorloo Zuperdac/Amp or my Schiit Bifrost Uber/Lyr with Telefunken E88CC tubes. These sources may not be the best for them but again these are only 16ohms.


----------



## kurtextrem

cigarello said:


> To anyone else who owns a pair of Shozy BK, does either of your channels distort in the lows at higher levels?
> 
> My Stardusts/BK's are pretty much brand new and when listening to music with a lot of lows and bumping up the volume a bit high, I can hear a rattle in the left channel as the bass hits. Along with this is that my Vido are pretty much 90% as good as these thus making me think my pair of Stardusts could potentially be faulty? I really don't know but for $165, these are definitely not worth the asking price imo. I am running them through either a Zorloo Zuperdac/Amp or my Schiit Bifrost Uber/Lyr with Telefunken E88CC tubes. These sources may not be the best for them but again these are only 16ohms.


faulty. I had this problem, sent it back to repair.


----------



## cigarello

kurtextrem said:


> faulty. I had this problem, sent it back to repair.



Wow, what a shame for a $165 earbud to have QC issues. Did the earphone improve a lot after the repair? Thanks for the reply!


----------



## cocolinho (Jul 24, 2017)

noknok23 said:


> So far, feedbacks on 150s are highly positive but they seems to be v shaped with transparent sound. Nothing to compare with the Zen 2.0


I got these 150S this week end. Nice earbuds, very clear. Very good bass quality, enough in quantity, mids are transparent, bright, vocal slightly pushed back but again clear. Highs are well extended.
Very contrasting with my 400s 
I don't have Zen 2.0, but based on my reads, they have nothing in common with 150s


----------



## KookaBurrra

noknok23 said:


> I agree marketing was on point and very well made. A big announcement with bold statement on the first day. Then l, the day after a full written review from I guess an early owner. And one feedback from Japan on Aliexpress order. All this is very well coordinated.



Indeed...


----------



## kurtextrem

cigarello said:


> Wow, what a shame for a $165 earbud to have QC issues. Did the earphone improve a lot after the repair? Thanks for the reply!


Well, the same problem like yours developed around 6 months after I've bought it. Not sure why your new one has that issue - for mine it was a moisture problem. The repair was replacing the drivers with new ones.


----------



## noknok23 (Jul 24, 2017)

Just got the vido, first impression: They are  insane, same sound signature as campfred 1,  unbelievable how smooth, clear and effortless they sound. They do scale with a better source and sound much better on Aune m1s than Zishan z1 (juste like the campfred lol) They perhaps have less resolution or less highs, but it's so tiny, at this point, it doesn't really matter. I actually might prefer the vido over the CF 1...

edit: the difference get more obvious with time. Campfred are still more refined, have more body and details.... I need to recable Vido and make it Balanced, I am sure it will get closer to CF1.


----------



## kurtextrem

Woot? That sounds too great to be true


----------



## noknok23

I was fooled by the ridiculous low price of the vido and thought they were "great for budget earbuds" until i heard them. They are way better than that...


----------



## AkashS04

Robert Turnbull said:


> Have you tried the Edifier H180? I find its like a more refined SHE3800.. there is a P180 which is a mic version of the H180


I did not try Edifier P180. I heard that it is good too but somewhere I read that it doe not have the kind of bass which SHE3800 has. And not sure if build quality is same or better in P180? Any idea?


----------



## AkashS04

tinkertailor said:


> I can think of one.


Which one?


----------



## Saoshyant

noknok23 said:


> I was fooled by the ridiculous low price of the vido and thought they were "great for budget earbuds" until i heard them. They are way better than that...



Sounds like you found that great fit for your preferred sound sig!


----------



## cocolinho

noknok23 said:


> I was fooled by the ridiculous low price of the vido and thought they were "great for budget earbuds" until i heard them. They are way better than that...


I agree with this. They are the greatest bang for buck I've ever had


----------



## goosebill

Hey everyone. New user. I posted this question in the 'Recommendations' forum but it died in the womb... probably because it's too vague, so I'll try here.

If I want a pair of earbuds that are better than stock Apple earbuds, what are my options? Most earbuds seem to be ranked as "good for the money", but I'm looking more for good in absolute terms.

(Sorry if this was already answered in this thread- it's a little hard to search 1,445 pages)


----------



## chaiyuta

@goosebill : How much of your budget? which plug do you prefer (2.5TRRS or 3.5TRS)?


----------



## noknok23 (Jul 24, 2017)

@goosebill what sound signature do you like+1 and what source do you use?
Imo the market for earbuds has very hardcore competition at the moment. And most earbuds that came out the last 6 month have insane sound quality for so little price. And high price doesn't necessarily means huge gap in quality. (It can be actually very subtle)

And be assured that earpod from Apple have a  very below average sound. Not extended, narrow and hollow...


----------



## Makahl

noknok23 said:


> I was fooled by the ridiculous low price of the vido and thought they were "great for budget earbuds" until i heard them. They are way better than that...



Thank you for your impression! I checked your profile, and I saw:


> soon: Bhobuds Mag7 & Karasutengu... maybe not



Have you received those buds after this whole time? Actually, it blows my mind how a lot of people got scammed by vapman and nothing happened to him. Btw, right now vapman's site has a gif which looks like "I can scam people and my head-fi friends gonna vouch for me!".


----------



## Saoshyant

Makahl said:


> Thank you for your impression! I checked your profile, and I saw:
> 
> 
> Have you received those buds after this whole time? Actually, it blows my mind how a lot of people got scammed by vapman and nothing happened to him. Btw, right now vapman's site has a gif which looks like "I can scam people and my head-fi friends gonna vouch for me!".



I kind of wonder if I'm the only one that ever got the Mag7.  At least I know what it's a mod of now, unless the shell has nothing to do with the driver.


----------



## KookaBurrra

noknok23 said:


> Just got the vido, first impression: They are  insane, same sound signature as campfred 1,  unbelievable how smooth, clear and effortless they sound. They do scale with a better source and sound much better on Aune m1s than Zishan z1 (juste like the campfred lol) They perhaps have less resolution or less highs, but it's so tiny, at this point, it doesn't really matter. I actually might prefer the vido over the CF 1...



And they are even better with a better quality cable and deserve to be recabled ... just to remove the "J", already! Really good earbuds with new - good - cable !


----------



## B9Scrambler

Have spent a couple weeks with the Rose Mojito and am pretty shocked at just how well-rounded their sound is. Really feels like I'm listening to a full-sized can. Is that something to expect from most totl buds? If so, I'm officially sold on ear buds. 


​


----------



## DBaldock9

Saoshyant said:


> I kind of wonder if I'm the only one that ever got the Mag7.  At least I know what it's a mod of now, unless the shell has nothing to do with the driver.



I received the Mag7 that I ordered from vapman (after a fairly long wait), and I think they do sound pretty good - even when running from a DAP (~150mW), rather than a higher-powered amp (iFi Micro iDSD). 
*NOTE:* I did rewire mine, with some 8-strand braided wire and a 2.5mm TRRS plug, to use with my DP-X1.

Which earbuds are they based on?


----------



## ricesteam

goosebill said:


> Hey everyone. New user. I posted this question in the 'Recommendations' forum but it died in the womb... probably because it's too vague, so I'll try here.
> 
> If I want a pair of earbuds that are better than stock Apple earbuds, what are my options? Most earbuds seem to be ranked as "good for the money", but I'm looking more for good in absolute terms.
> 
> (Sorry if this was already answered in this thread- it's a little hard to search 1,445 pages)



For starters, I would get the really good budget ones because it won't cost you much if you find out they don't fit well. There are two common shells that are used in most of the good earbuds: MX500 and Yuin shells. I'd buy a budget of one of each to try. Do not let the cost deter you from the quality. I assure you, they do not sound budget at all.

There are two budget MX500-type buds I recommend:

1. Monk Plus - if you want a more neutral and clear sounding earbuds. You can buy them on VECLAN.com, starting at $5 USD
2. Vido - if you want a more warm and bassy earbuds. https://goo.gl/Fv8W92 for ~$5 USD.

I don't know any good YUIN-type budget buds for $5, but I heard good things about NiceHCK DIY PK2 which can be bought for ~$20USD (probably less if you can ask seller for discount). https://goo.gl/NmjW9i

...welcome to the world of earbuds...hahaha...$$$$


----------



## cocolinho

Tonneking TP16 are also a great choice below USD20 . Nice earbuds, nice cable.


----------



## KookaBurrra

And also *Fengru DIY EMX500*, same kind of sound than Vido but a better cable. 10$ on Aliexpress : https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/100-...HiFi-Bass-Earbuds-DJ-Earbuds/32759573651.html


----------



## noknok23

Makahl said:


> Thank you for your impression! I checked your profile, and I saw:
> 
> 
> Have you received those buds after this whole time? Actually, it blows my mind how a lot of people got scammed by vapman and nothing happened to him. Btw, right now vapman's site has a gif which looks like "I can scam people and my head-fi friends gonna vouch for me!".


What, oh well yeah, I got very nicely scammed by Vapman too... This is unbelievable. How can he dare be so cocky about this?
I also found out he has been banned  from a retro game console forum and a second hand thinkpad forum, doing more or less the same thing... selling stuff that never arrives, forget about it, etc...


----------



## springbay

ctaxxxx said:


> Looking for a new warm / mid-champion bud too, since I'm not feeling the QFred's anymore, so I might do another Ali order with other competing buds. What other TOTL warm / mid-focused buds are there? Maybe Yinman 600, Rose Masya, and TY Hi-Z HP650?



Might I suggest that you skip the TY Hi-Z HP650? I think you have heard to many TOTL buds to be impressed by them. Vido has shown us that price doesn't mean much.
If you can get your hands on a pair of Seahf Smart 1.0 or Seahf LD-3.0 320, I suggest you try them. I seem to prefer the more smooth and coherent Seahf tuning over the more aggressive TY Hi-Z tuning.
And as always, K's Earphone 500, is my standing recommendation.


----------



## Saoshyant

@DBaldock9 Would you at all mind PMing me a picture of the shells of your Mag7?  I'm curious if yours are as obvious as mine.


----------



## KookaBurrra

springbay said:


> If you can get your hands on a pair of Seahf Smart 1.0 or Seahf LD-3.0 320, I suggest you try them. I seem to prefer the more smooth and coherent Seahf tuning over the more aggressive TY Hi-Z tuning.



I agree with but just a thing : the tuning of the TY Hi-Z HP650 a not as aggressive than the rest of the TY Hi-Z range... But more in the Seahf LD-3.0 320 way : smooth, coherent, ... (I have HP650 and I have LD-3.0 320 before). Really same kind of feeling and philosophy!


----------



## goosebill (Jul 24, 2017)

> How much of your budget?
Price is flexible, but under $75 would be nice. I'm more just trying to figure out what's the best that's out there and if any of them hold up against IEMs/on-ear/over-ear in absolute terms.

> which plug do you prefer (2.5TRRS or 3.5TRS)? 
I kinda don't even care, this is for desktop computer use. A normal 3.5 headphone plug is ultimately what I need, but I'm sure I can pick up adapters to convert anything else.

> what sound signature do you like
This is a big, BIG question.
Like most people I've always bought typical consumer stuff but never really been happy with it. My old Apple iPod earbuds died and I decided it was finally time to get something good for once. After a whole bunch of discussion at various places I was eventually steered towards Sennheiser HD558s. I bought them, and I think they sound like foggy boomy crap. I honestly can't tell the difference between them and something you'd buy in the grocery store's electronic aisle. (I have a whole thread about it: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/h...ers-i-dont-know-if-i-know-what-i-want.856051/). I listen to basically everything, I *thought* I wanted something "neutral" and a good all-arounder. The HD558s were supposed to be that, but somehow aren't. I honestly don't know what I'm looking for anymore. The most I can say is that I thought my iPod earbuds weren't too terrible.

> and what source do you use?
I'm using a Mac's onboard 3.5 jack. I've asked around before if I should get a separate DAC or amp and the unanimous answer was no; that Mac onboard sound is good enough that I'd never notice the difference unless I got much more expensive headphones. File-wise, it's usually 320k mp3 and/or FLAC.

> earpod
I don't know about the newer Apple earpods, I have old iPod earbuds (pre-mic days).

> if you find out they don't fit well
Are any/either design closer to the old Apple style? Those were super comfortable for me, I can wear them basically forever.

> Monk Plus
I hear a lot about these, but they always seem to be a case of "amazing for $5". I can afford a lot more than $5, so I'm ok with something better if it's available. What few sites mention them in the same breath as Apple gear seem to say that they're not much better than what comes with an iPhone.

> YUIN
People have mentioned the PK2 and PK3. I've also heard of the VE Zen and Asura, the Sennheiser MX300 series, and the Fiio EM3, but nothing that really compares any of them.


----------



## Saoshyant

...but I like the HD 558, more than the 598 anyways.  558 isn't neutral compared to the 598 for example, and focused on adding a little bit of bass for fun.

The suggestion I should probably make is your first earbud purchases should be a Vido and Monk+.  They're inexpensive, high quality for a beginner, and will give you a point of reference to figure out what you might like.  And on that note with your comment about the HD558, forget the Vido.  You might be more suited by Monk+, or perhaps something like **** PT15 if you find out you're a treble-head, or maybe Auglamour RX-1.  Once you have a better point of reference, suggestions are easier to make.

Where in the USA are you located?  I might be able to help a little.


----------



## Deveraux

I'm currently using Apple earpods with my phone (S7 Edge with Exynos) and MBP and with the phone and Viper4Android, it sounds really good to me. But you know, we are always left for wanting more. I feel the bass in the earpods is a little bloated although there is a lot of it (both sub and mid bass). When I use it with any other source without V4A installed in it, I don't like it much. 

So I thought of getting a better one for around 50-100$. To start off with, I like quality bass in my music, in fact a lot of it. But not at the cost of mids and highs. Almost everything I checked (online reviews) had less bass and good treble or good bass or less clarity. 

After reading and searching for a lot of days, I came to the conclusion that Sony XB75AP will be the best for me. Since the XB50 and XB70 are some of the highest rated earphones on Amazon (.in and .com) and pretty much every online store, I decided to go for it. 

When I got this thing, I was so really disappointed. There was so less bass contrary to what the company claims and the mids and highs were really harsh (compared to my Earpods which produced really decent and smooth mids and highs with V4A). I was able to increase the bass with the help of EQ, but no amount EQ tinkering could solve the sibilance issue. 

I guess I'm really sensitive to sibilance, but this thing produces the kind of harsh noise that really cheap speakers and headphones produce. Even after a lot of tweaking the EQ, it sounds only a little better than my cheap Earpods (that too only on the bass terms - slightly better clarity on the bass). *Sibilance of instruments mostly.
If I cut down the sibilance with an EQ, the entire highs and mids get affected. They sound muddy and tinny. Please don't confused as I want toned down highs. I like very clear highs but with no sibilance.*


Also, last year, I've bought the KZ ED9 which is highly praised here by Head-fiers and I was disappointed with it as well. There was no bass and clarity was at the cost of sibilance and my Earpods with V4A actually sounded more hi-fi. It felt more high end. 

What should I do? I've a few days remaining to return the XB75AP and even then I'll lose 15% of the price (stupid return policies). 

tl;dr: Please suggest an earphone under 100$ that has little to no sibilance but with amazing clarity.

NOTE: Please don't suggest me to get another pair of earpods as I really want something better.

I'm sorry for my immature language, I hope you can understand what I'm trying to convey.


Or should I get a headphone?


----------



## goosebill

> Monk+
Is there anywhere you can buy these things that doesn't have a one month lead time?

> Where in the USA are you located?
MA. The only places I have near me are the usual BestBuy, Target, and Walmart. I can order online, but returning stuff bought online is a royal pain because I have to drive out to a facility.


----------



## goosebill

@Deveraux
OK wait, do you want earbuds, or IEMs (in-ear-monitor)? There's a BIG difference. Apple earpods are earbuds, but the Sony XB75AP are IEMs.


----------



## Saoshyant

goosebill said:


> > Monk+
> Is there anywhere you can buy these things that doesn't have a one month lead time?
> 
> > Where in the USA are you located?
> MA. The only places I have near me are the usual BestBuy, Target, and Walmart. I can order online, but returning stuff bought online is a royal pain because I have to drive out to a facility.



https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01N5RBJCH/  if you don't mind dealing with Amazon.  It won't be back in stock for a few days, but still you won't have to wait a month.


----------



## goosebill

> if you don't mind dealing with Amazon
Eh, they're kinda annoying for stuff like this. Shipping isn't free under $25, I either have to buy another random item I don't need or pay extra. People say they're worth $5, but how does that change when I'm paying more like $18? At that price I feel like I should just get something better in the first place.


----------



## Deveraux

goosebill said:


> @Deveraux
> OK wait, do you want earbuds, or IEMs (in-ear-monitor)? There's a BIG difference. Apple earpods are earbuds, but the Sony XB75AP are IEMs.



I'm okay with both provided they fit good in my ears.


----------



## goosebill

> I'm okay with both provided they fit good in my ears.
That's fine, but generally speaking earbuds are typically inferior to IEMs overall, especially with regards to bass. If you want bass and you're OK with IEMs, you should definitely go that route and ask about them in one of the IEM threads instead of this one.


----------



## SuperMAG

ok, after finally tasting the forbidden fruit of a almost totl IEM, my Lz A4, I finally understood what was all the hype was about. the unbelievable clarity, resolution and a 3d feel, incredible bass quality and clarity, making all my earbuds and iems look embarrassing in front of them. I have settled with black / black filters as they provide the best balance and soundstage, even though they are a bit bright for my taste but I am soundstage nut.

But still its not enough, I can wear an iem for 1hr max before getting quite uncomfy, got used to earbuds so much. and I feel there is room for improvement, besides trading with more comfy form in earbuds.

I believe the biggest advantage of an earbud is the soundstage and comfy feel, that's why I am look for my TOTL earbud to complement my lz a4 and act like a over ear replacement.

I am looking for something that makes my lz a4 soundstage small in comparison, I want something with much deeper soundstage and 3d, right left up and down kind of soundstage making it feel like its happening in real time. I want the same high quality layered bass that a4 provides and better if possible, like the one in those big speakers that oozes clarity and boom. I want treble to be with extreme clarity but not bright, and real life like sound. I want the separation of all of it likes everything has its place as its happening in real life.

I like thick vocals and warm sound, don't like bright stuff at all but I don't want to take clarity away and I want to keep the treble shimmers and cymbal's. the best balance of sound that has my preferred features is xiaomi piston 2 as its not bright at all but still shimmery feel of instruments. my a4 black / black causes me headaches sometimes because its a bit bright despite sounding superior, so less brighter then that.

So basically I want something that seems impossible, or is it? is there anything that comes close to what I want.

thanks for reading lol.


----------



## noknok23

@goosebill 90% of the stuff we get here is from aliexpress. In case of trouble It's actually quite safe and easy to get a refund if know how to do the request properly, (if help needed, check reddit/r/aliexpress, people will help you out about this).
I'd follow @Saoshyant advice, get a monk+; almost everyone has or had one here. Then it will be much easier for people in this forum to recommend something higher grade from what you like or dislike.
Otherwise, as I told you earlier, the earbuds market is blossoming at the moment, I'd say it's worth take the risk and follow the hype train, get the ty hi z 150s everyone is crazy about, seems like incredible value with very clear monitor like sound sig and easy to drive.
(even though i haven't heard it yet, and only a few did, I do believe the hype on this one...)


----------



## ricesteam

goosebill said:


> > Monk+
> Is there anywhere you can buy these things that doesn't have a one month lead time?
> 
> > Where in the USA are you located?
> MA. The only places I have near me are the usual BestBuy, Target, and Walmart. I can order online, but returning stuff bought online is a royal pain because I have to drive out to a facility.



I think the company that produces Monk+ has a distribution center in the US. When you order, I think you can select where to ship from.

Anyways, I order online from Canada and it takes under 2 weeks for them to arrive from China. Same with Vido -- NiceHCK, the seller, is a fast shipper.


----------



## Ver JJ

noknok23 said:


> @goosebill 90% of the stuff we get here is from aliexpress. In case of trouble It's actually quite safe and easy to get a refund if know how to do the request properly, (if help needed, check reddit/r/aliexpress, people will help you out about this).
> I'd follow @Saoshyant advice, get a monk+; almost everyone has or had one here. Then it will be much easier for people in this forum to recommend something higher grade from what you like or dislike.
> Otherwise, as I told you earlier, the earbuds market is blossoming at the moment, I'd say it's worth take the risk and follow the hype train, get the ty hi z 150s everyone is crazy about, seems like incredible value with very clear monitor like sound sig and easy to drive.
> (even though i haven't heard it yet, and only a few did, I do believe the hype on this one...)



Also DIY "Sennheiser" MX500 if you miss that. I will personally insist on Ve Monk+ as it has quite a "relaxing" sound for me however your opinion might vary. My suggestion is to get one first and then spend more to get more........ you can ignore my last sentence, I was just joking with you, take it seriously at your own risk......... cheer.


----------



## noknok23 (Jul 25, 2017)

Latest acquisitions, from left to right: Eking Full ($35), MX500 DIY clear shell version (around $18) **** Z&W($25) and Vido($4).

So far, very pleased with the neutral tonality of the Yinwoo and it's detailed sound sig. The Eking Full is from a small vietnamese DIY maker, V shaped and extra clear _oh my god what is this_ very big kind of sound. Vido has I said earlier make "FUN" totl kings from last year obsolete (and I wish I was wrong...) EDIT: "Almost Obsolete" is better fitted. Still CF1 wins in refinement, resolution and body...
Surprisingly, the DIY MX500 is the least impressive of all out of the box, But of course I'll burn them all and will give proper impression when it is settled.

Overall, it's quite incredible what you can get now with a fraction of the price that what was already bargain few months ago...







Edit: @Ver JJ for me, Monk has great soundstage, vocals and a nice, kind of warm neutral tonality but overall it lacks sub bass and there is an early high roll off. Some music with complex textures and high will sound like muffled garbage with it. (Actress, Rezzett, that kind of stuff doesnt suit the monk+ at all) but It's amazing with Jazz and some classic pop, however i don't really listen to this kind of music very often.


----------



## goosebill

> get a monk+; almost everyone has or had one here. Then it will be much easier for people in this forum to recommend something higher grade from what you like or dislike.
OK, I guess that's a fair statement. I was kinda hoping I could pick something up before the return date on the HD558s is up so I could compare everything side by side, but what can ya do.


----------



## noknok23 (Jul 24, 2017)

Del


----------



## Ver JJ

noknok23 said:


> Latest acquisitions, from left to right: Eking Full ($35), MX500 DIY clear shell version (around $18) Yinwoo Z&W($25) and Vido($4).
> 
> So far, very pleased with the neutral tonality of the Yinwoo and it's detailed sound sig. The Eking Full is from a small vietnamese DIY maker, V shaped and extra clear _oh my god what is this_ very big kind of sound. Vido has I said earlier make "FUN" totl kings from last year obsolete (and I wish I was wrong...)
> Surprisingly, the DIY MX500 is the least impressive of all out of the box, But of course I'll burn them all and will give proper impression when it is settled.
> ...



Ha, ha, sorry I was just a little lazy to describe the sound but yeah what you said there exactly matches my very definition of "relaxing", thank you by the way. As for MX500, (first impression) my unit is a little tighter in bass (more quantity, not so much about its quality though), well maybe due to quality control issue, haven't really auditioned it because I don't quite like its sound too (also I am currently matching my Awei DIY Z180 to suitable album).


----------



## chaiyuta

goosebill said:


> > How much of your budget?
> Price is flexible, but under $75 would be nice. I'm more just trying to figure out what's the best that's out there and if any of them hold up against IEMs/on-ear/over-ear in absolute terms.
> 
> > which plug do you prefer (2.5TRRS or 3.5TRS)?
> ...



Since you prefer neutral tonality, I do recommend Puresounds PS100-64Ohm or VE MONK+ SPC Edition (64Ohm). Based on review, TY Hi-z 150s is not your preference because it is bright earbuds. I assume that you might not know about 2.5mm. balanced. There are L+L-R+R-. That means Ground lines are separate, Zero cross-talk, and give you wider soundstage and instrument seperation. For 2.5mm. balanced TRRS, It can be used only you own 2.5mm balanced DAC/AMP or DAP otherwise you can't. Since you intend to use *MAC's onboard sound chip*, so let's stick on 3.5mm Single-End TRS, and keep avoid high-Ohm earbuds and Mostly TOTL earbuds' price is higher than 200$USD, so I don't recommend.


----------



## Makahl (Jul 24, 2017)

DBaldock9 said:


> I received the Mag7 that I ordered from vapman (after a fairly long wait), and I think they do sound pretty good - even when running from a DAP (~150mW), rather than a higher-powered amp (iFi Micro iDSD).
> *NOTE:* I did rewire mine, with some 8-strand braided wire and a 2.5mm TRRS plug, to use with my DP-X1.
> 
> Which earbuds are they based on?



I think there are no secrets at all. He grabbed some budget earbud, rid of the brand and put on them some KZ cable with aliexpress' rhodium plug. I'd guess it's a Vido or Qian, so it's expected they will sound good. But just opening it and with a picture of the driver to give an accurate response.


----------



## SuperMAG

SuperMAG said:


> ok, after finally tasting the forbidden fruit of a almost totl IEM, my Lz A4, I finally understood what was all the hype was about. the unbelievable clarity, resolution and a 3d feel, incredible bass quality and clarity, making all my earbuds and iems look embarrassing in front of them. I have settled with black / black filters as they provide the best balance and soundstage, even though they are a bit bright for my taste but I am soundstage nut.
> 
> But still its not enough, I can wear an iem for 1hr max before getting quite uncomfy, got used to earbuds so much. and I feel there is room for improvement, besides trading with more comfy form in earbuds.
> 
> ...



Also forgot to add, the only way that kind of soundstage works is every instrument and sound has that natural feel, like guitar feels like guitar and piano feels like piano etc, and the feeling of vigor when u hear it. is there any suggestions to anything close like that.


----------



## goosebill

chaiyuta said:


> I assume that you might not know about 2.5mm. balanced. There are L+L-R+R-. That means Ground lines are separate, Zero cross-talk, and give you wider soundstage and instrument seperation.



I was under the impression that balanced cables were only for super high end stuff: that you can only hear a difference if you're using $500+ headphones with a separate DAC and amp. Can you actually tell any difference with earbuds?

As for soundstage, I'm not sure I "get" soundstage or can hear it. I have an old pair of Apple iPod earbuds (not the newer "earpods", I mean the old kind without a mic, from the pre-iPhone days). Supposedly the HD558s are supposed to have a very good soundstage, but I honestly can't tell any difference whatsoever. I have a whole mess of different music and even downloaded a bunch of FLAC "headphone tester" files with 3D spatial recordings, and they both seem to have basically the same sense of "width" and "space". Neither produces sound that seems "inside my head".


----------



## chaiyuta

@goosebill : Just Monk+ 2.5mm balanced ($5 = same price and same cable quality with Monk+ 3.5mm Single-End) with Aune M1S or iBasso DX200, I quite sure you can hear something better (between Monk+ 2.5mm BL VS Monk+ 3.5mm SE). It is an architecture story. If you don't think to buy those 2.5mm balanced DAP, so let skip them. and Sure! the more expensive stuff tend to be better on every aspects than the cheaper stuff.


----------



## fairx

Vido wins in the 3D cues in chesky binaural tracks. Although not really  wide. Circular stage with very good focus. The focus breath life into 3D position and instrument. 

Like few others recently discovered for themselves, its cheap but don't be fooled by its price. 

Instrument sound like instrument and vocals feels like vocals. Everything lifelike. 

I stock 4 vido myself . One already develop imbalance so order more for backup. They're cheap enough and great.


----------



## fairx

goosebill said:


> As for soundstage, I'm not sure I "get" soundstage or can hear it. I have an old pair of Apple iPod earbuds (not the newer "earpods", I mean the old kind without a mic, from the pre-iPhone days). Supposedly the HD558s are supposed to have a very good soundstage, but I honestly can't tell any difference whatsoever. I have a whole mess of different music and even downloaded a bunch of FLAC "headphone tester" files with 3D spatial recordings, and they both seem to have basically the same sense of "width" and "space". Neither produces sound that seems "inside my head".


 to "get" the understanding of "space" you must at least try one of those hifiman planar or perhaps electrostat headphone (shangri-la or stax) . Go and audition one in your nearest high end audio store. They mostly have chesky headphone demonstration track in their repertoire. Try it. Once you have you can "get" the taste of good space.  Then you can try hunt the same sound in cheaper form. (or go for broke and aactually get one of those summit fi gear )


----------



## Danneq

ctaxxxx said:


> Updated my Shozy BK earbud impressions, added the Moondrop Liebesleid and EMX500 impressions, and added a short statement for (almost) each TOTL bud that describes what headphone they sound closest too (from what I've heard).
> 
> In the end, I think I prefered the Shozy BK over the Liebesleid. However, I still prefer Diomnes over both of them and I've been thinking of selling all the other TOTL buds I no longer listen too. This would include CAX Black, Liebesleid, CampFred 1, and (maybe) Shozy BK and QFred.
> 
> Looking for a new warm / mid-champion bud too, since I'm not feeling the QFred's anymore, so I might do another Ali order with other competing buds. What other TOTL warm / mid-focused buds are there? Maybe Yinman 600, Rose Masya, and TY Hi-Z HP650?



TY650 is not too far from the CampFred 1 sound, but more "clinical" and with less sub bass.

I have yet to find anything that comes even close to QFred when it comes to mids. Because of the strong mid focus QFred is very limited in its use, but they are very good at what they do.

I am selling my pair of CAX Black, but that's only because I only need one neutral TOTL earbud with stiff cable (Red Dragon). CampFred will stay with me as will Shozy BK and QFred. I might check Liebesleid out but I am pretty much content now when it comes to TOTL earbuds. Might check out some budget stuff like EMX500...


----------



## AkashS04

goosebill said:


> I was under the impression that balanced cables were only for super high end stuff: that you can only hear a difference if you're using $500+ headphones with a separate DAC and amp. Can you actually tell any difference with earbuds?
> 
> As for soundstage, I'm not sure I "get" soundstage or can hear it. I have an old pair of Apple iPod earbuds (not the newer "earpods", I mean the old kind without a mic, from the pre-iPhone days). Supposedly the HD558s are supposed to have a very good soundstage, but I honestly can't tell any difference whatsoever. I have a whole mess of different music and even downloaded a bunch of FLAC "headphone tester" files with 3D spatial recordings, and they both seem to have basically the same sense of "width" and "space". Neither produces sound that seems "inside my head".


Most of the earbuds here are failed against the quality and sound stage of old Apple Earbuds. Apple Earbuds are so soft and have good warm sound. Some improvement in Bass an overall build quality could have made it all time winner. However, Apple stopped and replaced it with crap earpod which is not only no where near to old apple earbud in terms of sound, it is uncomfortable too.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Danneq said:


> TY650 is not too far from the CampFred 1 sound, but more "clinical" and with less sub bass.
> 
> I have yet to find anything that comes even close to QFred when it comes to mids. Because of the strong mid focus QFred is very limited in its use, but they are very good at what they do.
> 
> I am selling my pair of CAX Black, but that's only because I only need one neutral TOTL earbud with stiff cable (Red Dragon). CampFred will stay with me as will Shozy BK and QFred. I might check Liebesleid out but I am pretty much content now when it comes to TOTL earbuds. Might check out some budget stuff like EMX500...



Really? Then I might just keep them. I guess I could ask for a custom from Cypherus that improves on the QFred sound, but at that price, It might be cheaper to just buy the iSine 20 (or some other high resolution mid-focused IEM). And I won't have to deal with a stiff cable, which now has a large impact on whether or not I'll buy a TOTL bud. CAX Black was just too stiff...

Honestly, if the Liebesleid was a touch smoother, with a fuller low end, it would have been what I wanted. I've been spoiled on the CampFred's bass.


----------



## siderak

Danneq said:


> TY650 is not too far from the CampFred 1 sound, but more "clinical" and with less sub bass.
> 
> I have yet to find anything that comes even close to QFred when it comes to mids. Because of the strong mid focus QFred is very limited in its use, but they are very good at what they do.
> 
> I am selling my pair of CAX Black, but that's only because I only need one neutral TOTL earbud with stiff cable (Red Dragon). CampFred will stay with me as will Shozy BK and QFred. I might check Liebesleid out but I am pretty much content now when it comes to TOTL earbuds. Might check out some budget stuff like EMX500...





ctaxxxx said:


> Really? Then I might just keep them. I guess I could ask for a custom from Cypherus that improves on the QFred sound, but at that price, It might be cheaper to just buy the iSine 20 (or some other high resolution mid-focused IEM). And I won't have to deal with a stiff cable, which now has a large impact on whether or not I'll buy a TOTL bud. CAX Black was just too stiff...
> 
> Honestly, if the Liebesleid was a touch smoother, with a fuller low end, it would have been what I wanted. I've been spoiled on the CampFred's bass.



Can't wait for your impressions after your Blurs arrive...


----------



## goosebill

AkashS04 said:


> Most of the earbuds here are failed against the quality and sound stage of old Apple Earbuds. Apple Earbuds are so soft and have good warm sound. Some improvement in Bass an overall build quality could have made it all time winner. However, Apple stopped and replaced it with crap earpod which is not only no where near to old apple earbud in terms of sound, it is uncomfortable too.



Interesting. So just to be clear, the old iPod earbuds are considered to have good soundstage then?


----------



## ricesteam

goosebill said:


> Interesting. So just to be clear, the old iPod earbuds are considered to have good soundstage then?



Everyone has their own opinions. In contrast, I do not like the Apple Earbuds. 

That's why we suggest you try one (or more) of the budget earbuds first to get an idea of what sounds you like and how earbuds fit. Low risk, high reward.  I personally like Monk+ and Vido better than the Apple earbuds/earpods.


----------



## chinmie

goosebill said:


> Interesting. So just to be clear, the old iPod earbuds are considered to have good soundstage then?



for me, no.. the monks, vidos, TYs, or any other are better


----------



## ctaxxxx

Alright. Keeping the Shozy BK. I always preferred them for faster metal (I like my guitars bright and drums tight), but the Edimun donut foams adds so much low end that it makes them perfect for slower, bassier metal too now (CampFred softens the guitars too much). I wonder if its because the foams have gotten so loose that it creates a perfect seal for bass.


----------



## feinanng (Jul 25, 2017)

Received Ty 150s/150mk2 yesterday.
Had some A/B testing with Shozy BK..
My usual listening preference is : HD650, se535, Se846, HD800, LCD-X, Rose Mojito

Ty 150s :
Bass : goes deeper, punchier, fast decay but BK has better texture.
Mid : thin, forward, unnatural transition from male to female vocal, uppermid region sounds shouty and put male vocal behind.
Treble : Energetic, Bright, but not as bright as Rose Mojito, no complaint...
Soundstage : good width, lack of depth, maybe because of the forward mid..
Source: S7 Edge, iFi Micro iDSD


----------



## cocolinho (Jul 25, 2017)

TY150s are not a good match with Ifi Micro IDSD. I prefer my Mimby + Ican SE , warmer sound than IDSD.

EDIT : I feel they become more balanced with burn-in...


----------



## kurtextrem

I present you ToneKing TY2 Pro: https://twitter.com/hckexin/status/889788541143732228


----------



## AkashS04

goosebill said:


> Interesting. So just to be clear, the old iPod earbuds are considered to have good soundstage then?


Yes. But I doubt that they are available in Market now. Even on Ebay it is dffclt to get them. Most of the Apple earuds on ebay are the one which came later and not the original ones. And there is huge dffrnce in sound quality between them. You might try to buy Brand New Accessories Box only from Ebay for iPod 1G Nano, Or may be 2G Nano also has the same until iPhone came. That's when they change the Earbud and started giving mic version also.


----------



## AkashS04

goosebill said:


> Interesting. So just to be clear, the old iPod earbuds are considered to have good soundstage then?


The sound is warm and sweet with iPod at least and with PowerAmp also. But some time you might feel that slight more enhancement in details will take the apple earbuds to some very high level. But I am sure you will enjoy. See if any of your friends has old apple earbuds or the one which used to come with Nano 1G or 2G. Later they reduced the size of driver and also of the shell  and overall killed the quality. Same with later iPod also. One side, it is very nice and really compact music player and even iPod nano 1G is small (just 31 grams), this one is much smaller than Nano 1G but they changed the Sound Chip from Wolfson to CirrusLogic which lacks Bass and warmness. But it adds details for sure. So not bad for the people who wants more clarity but not fir me. As I don't use in-ear earphones, it might be even best combination if a bass earbud like JVC FX100T or Sony ones are used.


----------



## goosebill (Jul 25, 2017)

ricesteam said:


> Everyone has their own opinions. In contrast, I do not like the Apple Earbuds.
> 
> That's why we suggest you try one (or more) of the budget earbuds first to get an idea of what sounds you like and how earbuds fit. Low risk, high reward.  I personally like Monk+ and Vido better than the Apple earbuds/earpods.





AkashS04 said:


> The sound is warm and sweet with iPod at least and with PowerAmp also. But some time you might feel that slight more enhancement in details will take the apple earbuds to some very high level. But I am sure you will enjoy. See if any of your friends has old apple earbuds




Well, I already have that old pair of Apple iPod earbuds. The have no bass but otherwise I thought they sound pretty reasonable, at least for something I basically got for free. They're also the most comfortable earbuds I've used. I'm looking into the Monk+s, but it seems I won't be able to get a pair in my hands for several weeks.


----------



## AkashS04

goosebill said:


> Well, I already have that old pair of Apple iPod earbuds. The have no bass but otherwise I thought they sound pretty reasonable, at least for something I basically got for free. They're also the most comfortable earbuds I've used. I'm looking into the Monk+s, but it seems I won't be able to get a pair in my hands for several weeks.


In terms of Bass, I do not see much difference in other earbuds here and Apple Earbud. The only area where you feel the difference is that other earbuds have some airyness and slight thump in bass section while apple earbuds has that almost missing. Still there but not much that you feel. But comfort of apple earbud itself is big positive. However, I found SHE3800 also comfortable.


----------



## Vy7478

https://www.amazon.com/****-Earbuds...?ie=UTF8&qid=1501010449&sr=8-10&keywords=****

Anyone own these and can comment on sound and value?


----------



## endia

noknok23 said:


> Latest acquisitions, from left to right: Eking Full ($35), MX500 DIY clear shell version (around $18) **** Z&W($25) and Vido($4).



is eking full a different unit from eking master? how is your first impressions?
thanks in advance..


----------



## MrMan

What is the biggest driver size from an earbud ?


----------



## rkw

MrMan said:


> What is the biggest driver size from an earbud ?


Largest I've seen is 16mm Celsus Gramo One.
https://penonaudio.com/Earphones/earbuds/Celsus-Gramo-One
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/r...mo-one-a-fantastic-open-backed-earbud.761288/


----------



## B9Scrambler

​
​


----------



## silverfishla

B9Scrambler said:


> ​
> ​


Big thumbs up on the OurArt buds.  A real contender to the Rose Masya.  In some ways, maybe even better and more useful.  Love the fit and the construction.  Sound is big and open with muscle but can have that feathery light touch that makes acoustic instruments sound, well, real.  Very very good.


----------



## noknok23

endia said:


> is eking full a different unit from eking master? how is your first impressions?
> thanks in advance..


From the seller: Easier to drive with more body. I'm doing burn in (100hours) before doing any more impressions, to avoid too many inconsistencies.


----------



## Schwejk

Hey guys - so after few months with Toneking Tomahawks I am in a need of an upgrade. I really like Tomahawks signature (would describe it as full and fun, they remind me of MusicMaker TK12 - my fav IEM's), but I would like to have more definition and even "bigger" bass if possible.

Got any recommendations? I am currently looking on VE Zen 2.0, Shozy Cygnus/BK, TY-Hz 150s and K's 500... So budget-wise around 150 bucks... My only current "source" is DragonFly Red.

Thx for your ideas


----------



## AkashS04

This earbud has freq response from 15 Hz to 3000 Hz only. What does that mean? It is not where standard of 20k or even 10k on higher side of response. 
https://penonaudio.com/index.php?route=journal2/quickview&pid=63


----------



## MrMan (Jul 26, 2017)

AkashS04 said:


> This earbud has freq response from 15 Hz to 3000 Hz only. What does that mean? It is not where standard of 20k or even 10k on higher side of response.
> https://penonaudio.com/index.php?route=journal2/quickview&pid=63



It's most likely a typo.

https://www.amazon.com/Vsonic-Earphones-headphones-comfort-soundfield/dp/B00C773IEO
From Amazon:  - Frequency response :15-30000Hz


----------



## Vy7478

noknok23 said:


> Latest acquisitions, from left to right: Eking Full ($35), MX500 DIY clear shell version (around $18) **** Z&W($25) and Vido($4).
> 
> So far, very pleased with the neutral tonality of the Yinwoo and it's detailed sound sig. The Eking Full is from a small vietnamese DIY maker, V shaped and extra clear _oh my god what is this_ very big kind of sound. Vido has I said earlier make "FUN" totl kings from last year obsolete (and I wish I was wrong...) EDIT: "Almost Obsolete" is better fitted. Still CF1 wins in refinement, resolution and body...
> Surprisingly, the DIY MX500 is the least impressive of all out of the box, But of course I'll burn them all and will give proper impression when it is settled.
> ...



Thanks for your info! I'm very interested in the **** Z&W, could you perhaps further describe their sound sig?


----------



## noknok23

Vy7478 said:


> Thanks for your info! I'm very interested in the **** Z&W, could you perhaps further describe their sound sig?



After some burnin I hear a warm and relaxed sound signature still with a fast decay. Shy but well extended  and tight bass, sweet mids and clear treble. Very nice natural tonality.

_gentle and elegant_ to say it quick

 .


----------



## Vy7478

noknok23 said:


> After some burnin I hear a warm and relaxed sound signature still with a fast decay. Shy but well extended  and tight bass, sweet mids and clear treble. Very nice natural tonality.
> 
> _gentle and elegant_ to say it quick
> 
> .



Thanks! Would you compare them favourably to the VE Monks?


----------



## noknok23 (Jul 27, 2017)

Monk has a mid bass bump that makes them more versatile. However if you don't mind the calm presentation, these are more refined by a fair margin.

Edit: if fed with an amp, the bass show up on a confident level and the sound is much more balanced. Amount of clarity is surprising for this price range. Perhaps it is the forwardness of the mids that trick me but I had to do some A/B with the blur and it was impressive.

Is it me or earbuds get considerably better each months?


----------



## MrMan

Is there any earbud that sounds powerful. Not just the bass but the sound feels in your face and nothing seems overstated vs the other ranges.


----------



## AkashS04

My Vido  is behaving strange. When I plug-into Mobile and listen to the song, all of a sudden next or previous track start playing and and it keeps connecting and disconnecting to the player. I use PowerAmp as usual setting is that as soon as earbuds  are connected, it opens the player and starts playing the last song and disconnect when you remove the earbud (pause/resume on receiving/ finishing any call). But with Vido, it is keep doing that and even usual calls are also getting disconnected. Even some movement is causing that. So today I used another earbud to see if this is the issue with earbud or poweramp. But it worked well and no song was paused or stopped or fwd/bckwrd during listening. 

It seems the while these earbuds are cheap, the quality of the earbuds are not that good. Especially if used with phone. I should target $10-20 range earbuds which has good build quality. At times I had same issue with Monk+ also but it was mostly only playing next or previous track all of a sudden and not like Vido now that keeps connecting/disconnecting and playing different tracks.

Any one using PowerAmp has same issue ever? @Ira Delphic ???


----------



## noknok23

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/2017...Y-Earphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds/32822275441.html

who wants to buy this one and give impressions? please


----------



## KookaBurrra (Jul 27, 2017)

38$ instead if 10$ just for a different splitter ? No, thanks!! 

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...buds-DJ-Earbuds-Heavy/519064_32789344867.html


----------



## nhlean96

Anyone still keep the Sony MDR-E931 (or 0931) ? Kinda old bud these days, I don't know if they are comparable to any budget earbuds today (VE Monk for example). Gonna get my hands on them soon, but I still wanna know how they sound, they used to be very popular - back in the day, 2000s maybe. There are some impression can be found on head-fi, but they're outdated and not so useful nowadays. Any comment will be welcomed, cause I don't have much expectation on them.


----------



## noknok23

KookaBurrra said:


> 38$ instead if 10$ just for a different splitter ? No, thanks!!
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...buds-DJ-Earbuds-Heavy/519064_32789344867.html


I'd like to think the drivers and sound is different, otherwise the price increase would have been weird...


----------



## AkashS04

Is there any other site apart from AE and PenonAudio which sells Earbuds and have huge range of earbuds (like AE or better) and also ships to USA?


----------



## mag8 (Jul 27, 2017)

Just received the Faaeal I ordered last week (it's been about a week from China to Amsterdam...).

first 5 minutes with it: WOW.

I'll give it some time to settle, but now with the donut foams it sounds very full and surprisingly enough there is even a lot of bass!

I'm glad i found this thread 

These are the headphones. I chose them because they have the microphone, sturdy jack and strong looking cable: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIF...lgo_pvid=51b8e2ec-d405-4c66-8731-9ef8121b3410

Testing them a bit with this song, it's surprising how wide it sounds:


----------



## Vy7478

I currently own the monk + (standard and espresso), the Ollivan K300, and the Tomahawks, and I need some advice on my next purchase. I've narrowed it down to:

Auglamour Rx-1
**** Z&W
NICEHCK EB200
Qian 39
Qian 25

Any help is much appreciated! And happy listening to all!


----------



## springbay

Hear, hear. Let this be known. 170728 marks the day that I realized @Cyperus is an absolute earbud genius.

I've already had CampFred 2 and Blue Darth for a couple of days, and I really liked them (though they are still burning in). But yesterday I received a pair of CAX Black from @Danneq, since he needs to buy a truckload of diapers for his baby (or something) and already have a pair of Red Dragons.

I stayed up all night (pun intended) and the CAXes are simply fantastic. I've a shipment of interesting buds incoming from NICEHCK that I honestly couldn't care less about right now. I just want to rediscover all my music on the CAXes. If you get the chance to try them out. Don't miss that opportunity. And if you can snag one of the few pairs out there (ten something) - don't miss it. You will regret it! If you are looking for a pair of neutral buds that extends far and beyond, the CAX black is your answer. Even if the cardas cables are stiff like hell (!)

Meanwhile I'll be deep into Manfred Mann's Earth Band.


----------



## fairx

I own a E0931.  I really like the highs.  Mid slightly recessed but smooth. and bass light. This is comparing to monk+. These days lots of other budget earbud better and more balance than E0931. 



nhlean96 said:


> Anyone still keep the Sony MDR-E931 (or 0931) ? Kinda old bud these days, I don't know if they are comparable to any budget earbuds today (VE Monk for example). Gonna get my hands on them soon, but I still wanna know how they sound, they used to be very popular - back in the day, 2000s maybe. There are some impression can be found on head-fi, but they're outdated and not so useful nowadays. Any comment will be welcomed, cause I don't have much expectation on them.


----------



## mag8

I was about to order a pair of Monk + from VE on Aliexpress when i noticed this... not sure what to make of it


----------



## Ver JJ

mag8 said:


> I was about to order a pair of Monk + from VE on Aliexpress when i noticed this... not sure what to make of it



Despite seeing this, I just pulled the trigger since if you go for the cheapest once, it only cost you 5usd................... so yeah, go ahead and don't hesitate because others companies/sellers from China that do state that they will offer you 1 year or longer warranty period might not replace your faulty unit too.................. have more faith in your luck...............


----------



## AkashS04

Any high impedence earbud which has 314P Shell or Shell similar to SHE3800 or something like this:  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Mor...9.html?spm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.272.K7UKdz


----------



## AkashS04

Did any one try Philips SHE2005? Looks good actually.


----------



## Makahl

springbay said:


> Hear, hear. Let this be known. 170728 marks the day that I realized @Cyperus is an absolute earbud genius.
> 
> I've already had CampFred 2 and Blue Darth for a couple of days, and I really liked them (though they are still burning in). But yesterday I received a pair of CAX Black from @Danneq, since he needs to buy a truckload of diapers for his baby (or something) and already have a pair of Red Dragons.
> 
> ...




Congrats! I think that is the best part of the hobby rediscovering again your collection and discovering new nuances! Speaking about Cypherus do you know why the Cypherus thread has been deleted?


----------



## kvad

Does anyone know if the Music Maker TY2 Pro has any upgrades beyond MMCX, compared to the original TY2?
At NiceHCK they quote a larger frequency range, while at the other seller they're quoted as the same - only thing I managed to get out of them when asking was the MMCX connector.
Rather liked the original so would be nice to see a further upgrade in it's sonic abilities.


----------



## springbay

Makahl said:


> Speaking about Cypherus do you know why the Cypherus thread has been deleted?



Yeah, that's very odd. I was looking for the thread yesterday, but could not find it.
I hope it's some kind of mistake and that it will return.


----------



## AkashS04

Which version (or colour) of Monk+ has boomiest bass (if there is any bass)?


----------



## ClieOS

**** Z&W
Aidex ADX-SII-10001 (a.k.a. NineWave NW-Studio)
K's 300ohm (latest)





Seahf AWK-F64
Seahf 32ohm (latest)
NiceHCK DIY Graphene


----------



## golov17

I like DIY Graphene.. good earbuds


----------



## chinmie

golov17 said:


> I like DIY Graphene.. good earbuds



impressions?


----------



## MLTKSHHBT

I like the synergy of my koss porta pro with zishan v2.
Any earbuds  with similar sound signature?


----------



## golov17

chinmie said:


> impressions?


Low, mids, treble sounds very balanced for my ears, detailed on the bright side. Bass good too, fit good
No claims to them for their price


----------



## golov17 (Jul 29, 2017)

MLTKSHHBT said:


> I like the synergy of my koss porta pro with zishan v2.
> Any earbuds  with similar sound signature?


Try Docomo, Yincrow x6, Vido, emx500


----------



## Makahl

Anyone got the new TY Hi-Z 150s and can share some impressions? Apparently, this bud is their best option now after some years of research. If I'm not mistaken coming from the original creators (or old OEM) of Zen 1 I'd guess it's a good earbud.

I never tried anything from TY Hi-Z or Seahf because every month has a new model so it's kinda hard to find a consensus besides the Zen 1 brothers which are discontinued right now.


----------



## noknok23 (Jul 29, 2017)

Makahl said:


> Anyone got the new TY Hi-Z 150s and can share some impressions? Apparently, this bud is their best option now after some years of research. If I'm not mistaken coming from the original creators (or old OEM) of Zen 1 I'd guess it's a good earbud.
> 
> I never tried anything from TY Hi-Z or Seahf because every month has a new model so it's kinda hard to find a consensus besides the Zen 1 brothers which are discontinued right now.



got them today, Balanced for aune m1s. Easy to drive. I feel like it will be a good match with this dap. Need to wait burn in for more impressions but I can say with confidence that, on a technical standpoint and build quality, this is not bad at all. Thou the competition has, as well, made incredible stuff (****, eking)

major downside: upper mids and treble is fatiguing some said?? I need to confirm that for myself.


----------



## fairx

I'm curious that eking name pop up here and there.  I had to google translate from Vietnam sites. How is it (eking)?


----------



## noknok23 (Jul 29, 2017)

fairx said:


> I'm curious that eking name pop up here and there.  I had to google translate from Vietnam sites. How is it (eking)?


still have eking full in burn in so haven't really listened to it but so far, feels like a full sized headphones effortlessly and it's $30/35 with shipping


----------



## Saoshyant

noknok23 said:


> still have eking full in burn in so haven't really listened to it but so far, very big bass, soundstage plus clarity, on par with $100 earbuds and more for $30, relatively easy to drive (150 ohms though)



Hmm, where do you order it?


----------



## noknok23

Saoshyant said:


> Hmm, where do you order it?


write to Duong Nguyen on facebook


----------



## Vixox314

Hi, is there any (sound) difference between vido with and without mic? I see good reviews for them and i want an earbud with mic, also anyone know how do they compare with SHE3800?


----------



## golov17

127usd  



 Newest Rose Masya Wooden Face Panel Earbud Flat Head Earphone Double Dynamic Earbud HIFI Monitor Earbud Earphone With 2Pin Cable
http://s.aliexpress.com/36fmI3ua


----------



## golov17

So goood with Hiegi


----------



## nhlean96

fairx said:


> I own a E0931.  I really like the highs.  Mid slightly recessed but smooth. and bass light. This is comparing to monk+. These days lots of other budget earbud better and more balance than E0931.


Thanks for your reply. The E0931 is surprisingly good, I agree with you the treble is very good, comparable with my AKG K420 (best value onear IMO with neutral tuning). The bass is good, have good impact and goes deep, but lacks a bit body compared to my MX98, bass can be improved significantly when equipped with full foams. Mid is forward but is a bit grainy, not as smooth as other popular earbuds, but I like the mid, it fits my taste perfectly. High is a bit hot for my taste, but very extended and is sparkling, airy, can sound a bit agressive but can be easily tamed with foams.


----------



## xavierng1

Hi all,any earbuds recommendation ?

Here are the info:
-Would love to keep it under 50 usd since i want to buy more  cheap thrill.
-Looking for neutral/balanced sound signature , not too bassy (gives me headache),detailed with good soundstage/imaging
-i like rock and blues music.
-DAPs using dx50 (main), xduoo x3 and zishan z2.

Thanks!


----------



## mag8

Would you guys recommend the **** pt15? I am looking for something nice looking and I could buy a mmcx cable with a mic for everyday use


----------



## golov17

xavierng1 said:


> Hi all,any earbuds recommendation ?
> 
> Here are the info:
> -Would love to keep it under 50 usd since i want to buy more  cheap thrill.
> ...


New TONEKING TP16 32ohms 3.5mm In Ear Earphong Flat Head Plug Earbud Earphone DYI HIFI Bass Headset Free Shipping
http://s.aliexpress.com/beInq6Zf


----------



## cqtek (Jul 30, 2017)

I received this earbuds:

- EMX500
- 1More EO320
- Qian39
- Vido

For me Qian39 & EO320 are so comfortable but I like so much Vido bass quantity and quality. I'm a big fan of Electronic Music and Vido satisfies me completely in this regard:



But EMX500 is the real pleasure for me, their bass definition is superb and I like so much their clear mids and separation.

A question, has Edifier H180 bass quantity and quality of Vido with better fit?

Thank you for your recommendations.


----------



## knudsen

cqtek said:


> I received this earbuds:
> A question, has Edifier H180 bass quantity and quality of Vido with better fit?


After 1 minute with either, the quantity seems to me to be in the same ballpark. I find the Vido to be clearer and more detailed everywhere though, but H180 is still a good earbud.

You might work on getting used to the mx500 shell  I could'nt stand it when I started earbudding, and also kept on the lookout for the smaller ones. Now I don't mind it at all.


----------



## cqtek

knudsen said:


> After 1 minute with either, the quantity seems to me to be in the same ballpark. I find the Vido to be clearer and more detailed everywhere though, but H180 is still a good earbud.
> 
> You might work on getting used to the mx500 shell  I could'nt stand it when I started earbudding, and also kept on the lookout for the smaller ones. Now I don't mind it at all.



Thank you for your words.

I can only enjoy mx500 shell if I do not move, for this reason I always search little alternatives.


----------



## waynes world

mag8 said:


> I was about to order a pair of Monk + from VE on Aliexpress when i noticed this... not sure what to make of it



Lol! Good 'ol Lee!


----------



## knudsen

cqtek said:


> Thank you for your words.
> 
> I can only enjoy mx500 shell if I do not move, for this reason I always search little alternatives.


H180 might be a good compromise then, and I find it a fair amount better than qian39. Or one of the modded ones if you can live with stiff cable. My preference is EMX500 too


----------



## xavierng1 (Jul 30, 2017)

golov17 said:


> New TONEKING TP16 32ohms 3.5mm In Ear Earphong Flat Head Plug Earbud Earphone DYI HIFI Bass Headset Free Shipping
> http://s.aliexpress.com/beInq6Zf


Thanks golov!  but do you have any other options,might pick up a few earbuds


----------



## chinmie

xavierng1 said:


> Hi all,any earbuds recommendation ?
> 
> Here are the info:
> -Would love to keep it under 50 usd since i want to buy more  cheap thrill.
> ...



best under 50 that I've tried (in no particular order) : Vido, EMX500, Edifier H185, Toneking TP16


----------



## xavierng1

chinmie said:


> best under 50 that I've tried (in no particular order) : Vido, EMX500, Edifier H185, Toneking TP16


oh nice, thanks a lot!


----------



## doggiemom

MrMan said:


> Is there any earbud that sounds powerful. Not just the bass but the sound feels in your face and nothing seems overstated vs the other ranges.


Blur


----------



## doggiemom

springbay said:


> Hear, hear. Let this be known. 170728 marks the day that I realized @Cyperus is an absolute earbud genius.
> 
> I've already had CampFred 2 and Blue Darth for a couple of days, and I really liked them (though they are still burning in). But yesterday I received a pair of CAX Black from @Danneq, since he needs to buy a truckload of diapers for his baby (or something) and already have a pair of Red Dragons.
> 
> ...



These sound intriguing.  Any advise on how to buy?


----------



## cocolinho

doggiemom said:


> Blur


Would not say Blur for powerful sound. Balanced, yes for sure. But not powerful.


----------



## ctaxxxx

doggiemom said:


> These sound intriguing.  Any advise on how to buy?



Sending you a PM.


----------



## AkashS04

Vixox314 said:


> Hi, is there any (sound) difference between vido with and without mic? I see good reviews for them and i want an earbud with mic, also anyone know how do they compare with SHE3800?


SHE3800 has warmer sound and better bass. There is a lot of boominess in SHE3800 which is missing in Vido. Vido is not bad though but comfort and quality wise SHE3800 is much better and of course better sound overall. My Vido are more or less broken now so thinking of buying SHE3800 with Mic now as I also need with mic only. But as number of earbuds are broken in last few months, I guess if I can get high impedence bud which has 1x1 sound signature like SHE3800m that should be good but unfortunately, no earbud within $5-20 range having that kind of sound and if at all good, then no mic with high impdence bud.


----------



## AkashS04

Is there any other site for earbuds apart from AE and Penon?


----------



## rahmish

AkashS04 said:


> Is there any other site for earbuds apart from AE and Penon?


rholupat. com


----------



## rkw

AkashS04 said:


> Is there any other site for earbuds apart from AE and Penon?


https://s.taobao.com/search?q=earbuds


----------



## AkashS04

rkw said:


> https://s.taobao.com/search?q=earbuds


Thanks. Do they have US site too? And also English site as this one is in Chinese so cannot read. .


----------



## noknok23

I don't see any cypherus earphones on rholupat, neither taobao...


----------



## rkw

AkashS04 said:


> Thanks. Do they have US site too? And also English site as this one is in Chinese so cannot read. .


There are 3rd party websites for shopping Taobao in English: https://www.google.com/search?q=taobao
I haven't used Taobao myself, although it has been mentioned often in this thread.


----------



## cqtek (Jul 31, 2017)

I'm interested in this model FENGRU DIY PK2:

https://es.aliexpress.com/store/pro...uds/1727211_32818451331.html?isOrigTitle=true

Has anyone tried it?

I think my ideal earbud would be like the EMX500 with a little more bass presence and more comfortable.


----------



## ctaxxxx

noknok23 said:


> I don't see any cypherus earphones on rholupat, neither taobao...



You have to contact @Cyperus directly via Head-Fi PM or Facebook PM. He doesn't sell them on a website.


----------



## AkashS04

rkw said:


> There are 3rd party websites for shopping Taobao in English: https://www.google.com/search?q=taobao
> I haven't used Taobao myself, although it has been mentioned often in this thread.


Tabaofocus.com? It is in English but very difficult to search correct product.


----------



## AkashS04

rkw said:


> There are 3rd party websites for shopping Taobao in English: https://www.google.com/search?q=taobao
> I haven't used Taobao myself, although it has been mentioned often in this thread.


Basically I am looking for any High Impedence bud which has almost same sound quality of SHE3800? Or at least good boomy bass and warm sound. 314P Shell will be good (like SH3800 ones). But mic is mandatory and I think there is none in the market like these criterias.


----------



## rkw

AkashS04 said:


> Tabaofocus.com? It is in English but very difficult to search correct product.


If that one doesn't work for you, try something else in the Google search results. I've never used any of them and can't suggest anything else.


----------



## rkw

AkashS04 said:


> Basically I am looking for any High Impedence bud which has almost same sound quality of SHE3800? Or at least good boomy bass and warm sound. 314P Shell will be good (like SH3800 ones). But mic is mandatory and I think there is none in the market like these criterias.


Just use your SHE3800 with a cable like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5mm-male-...te-mic-for-iphone-Android-phone-/281950437221.


----------



## knudsen (Jul 31, 2017)

Error


----------



## AkashS04

rkw said:


> If that one doesn't work for you, try something else in the Google search results. I've never used any of them and can't suggest anything else.


I tried but did not work. No link it seems in English.


----------



## AkashS04

rkw said:


> Just use your SHE3800 with a cable like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5mm-male-...te-mic-for-iphone-Android-phone-/281950437221.


Really nice cable. I guess I must learn how to recable. My SHE3800 is still working. Only  think is that it seems the some inner wire connection issue with speaker or plug so until you adjust it, one speaker does not work and that too until you don't move at all.  How easy it is to open the shell and shoulder the wire or change the cable? What are the chances that it will be spoilt fully?  Any complete cable change kit available?


----------



## Ira Delphic

mag8 said:


> Would you guys recommend the **** pt15? I am looking for something nice looking and I could buy a mmcx cable with a mic for everyday use



I have the original version, if fact...one of the first pairs to reach the US. The current models have more bass, but most of us haven't had good luck with the fit. They fall out of my ears so earhooks are mandatory. I'd say go for it unless you need a bass monster.


----------



## petan970

AkashS04 said:


> Is there any other site for earbuds apart from AE and Penon?



For you?
BoomyBassEarphones.com


----------



## knudsen (Jul 31, 2017)

cqtek said:


> I'm interested in this model FENGRU DIY PK2:
> 
> https://es.aliexpress.com/store/pro...uds/1727211_32818451331.html?isOrigTitle=true
> 
> ...


I bought those exact, out of the box they are the opposite of emx500. Unclear, no bass, no treble, non-existing soundstage, I found them horrible and stole the cable for something else.

However, if they are the same as, or share parts with, niceHCK pk2 (which I doubt), people say they transform completely after burn in and gets lots of bass. I still have them, if I'm really bored I might put a cable on them and try burn in.

So sorry in all I can't really help, they're either really great or really bad 

Btw, my bad review of them has dissapeared from Ali, cleaned up somehow.


----------



## noknok23

anyway,


knudsen said:


> I bought those exact, out of the box they are the opposite of emx500. Unclear, no bass, no treble, non-existing soundstage, I found them horrible and stole the cable for something else.
> 
> However, if they are the same as, or share parts with, niceHCK pk2 (which I doubt), people say they transform completely after burn in and gets lots of bass. I still have them, if I'm really bored I might put a cable on them and try burn in.
> 
> ...


Interesting I also have some diy mx500 (another model though) And I hear the same thing as you, muddy and distant sound, I don't get it. Seller told me 100hr burn in so i let it burn ever since... It might be surprising who knows... https://es.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-...32821311177.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.9Pw3KM


----------



## AkashS04

petan970 said:


> For you?
> BoomyBassEarphones.com


Not a bad idea. I should buy this domain. I am sure it will be hit


----------



## cqtek

knudsen said:


> I bought those exact, out of the box they are the opposite of emx500. Unclear, no bass, no treble, non-existing soundstage, I found them horrible and stole the cable for something else.
> 
> However, if they are the same as, or share parts with, niceHCK pk2 (which I doubt), people say they transform completely after burn in and gets lots of bass. I still have them, if I'm really bored I might put a cable on them and try burn in.
> 
> ...



 Thank you so much for your opinion.

I think it's not possible that burning changes the sound from poor to great, so sure I will not buy it. 
I will try with Edifier H180, they are in Amazon Spain at the same price than AE


----------



## noknok23

burn in does make miracles sometimes! if they use some weird chemicals I guess it could change a lot over usage?? let's see.


----------



## cqtek

noknok23 said:


> burn in does make miracles sometimes! if they use some weird chemicals I guess it could change a lot over usage?? let's see.



In that case I will wait to see if any brave dares to buy them and to burn in them completely


----------



## knudsen (Jul 31, 2017)

noknok23 said:


> anyway,
> 
> Interesting I also have some diy mx500 (another model though) And I hear the same thing as you, muddy and distant sound, I don't get it. Seller told me 100hr burn in so i let it burn ever since... It might be surprising who knows... https://es.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-...32821311177.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.9Pw3KM


Surely I'm on the burn in matters wagon, I always hear small to medium changes with burn in. I've just never experienced a bud do a Jekyll-Hyde thing. But I may be doing that pk2 wrong, I'm just warning there is a risk unless someone else has them..

Btw I am surprised that diy mx500 sounds bad out of box, someone said Fengru mx500 are the same as emx500 that I find sounds great out of box (though they get more relaxed and transparent with burnin to my ears)


----------



## SuperMAG

ctaxxxx said:


> Sending you a PM.


Hey there, just wanna ask, how will u compare blur with ur other totls.


----------



## ctaxxxx

SuperMAG said:


> Hey there, just wanna ask, how will u compare blur with ur other totls.



Not sure what you're asking specifically. I will just write up my impressions on the sound signature and build like usual. It's in the same price range (the highest end model with 2.5mm plug at least), so I'm not doing a short one-off like I did with the budget buds. I should hopefully receive them this week actually.


----------



## SuperMAG

ah ok, thanks.


----------



## AkashS04

Is SHE3800 not available anywhere else except Lunashop.com? Lunashop has two issues. One is delivery time is 35-45 days and 2nd very high price for mic version.


----------



## AkashS04

What earphones they are? Available on AE pr Penon? https://mytaofocus.com/shop/item.php?id=527133985402


----------



## AkashS04

TaoBao collection is mediocre or rather very poor. And no detail at all about the earbud if you find any.


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> best under 50 that I've tried (in no particular order) : Vido, EMX500, Edifier H185, Toneking TP16



I haven't tried any of those except for the Vido's, but for me so far: 
3) Monk+
2) Qian39 (with Monk+ thin foams)
1) Vido (with Monk+ thin foams)

All of them are great, but the Vido's are very satisfying to me (and fun). Ridiculous for the price really.


----------



## AkashS04 (Jul 31, 2017)

Is TY Hi-Z 150s Ohms available with Mic also? Can someone pls hare the link?


----------



## MrMan

Picked up a pair of Koss 250's for ~$80 and the sound and fit is very interesting. I can't tell how I feel about either upon first listen.


----------



## AkashS04

MrMan said:


> Picked up a pair of Koss 250's for ~$80 and the sound and fit is very interesting. I can't tell how I feel about either upon first listen.


 Koss KDE 250? Isn't it uncomfortable to wear? I saw the images and looks very bulky and weird shaped. Also, it looks like IEM and not earbud. Also, looks like thin and bright sound.


----------



## AkashS04

MrMan said:


> Picked up a pair of Koss 250's for ~$80 and the sound and fit is very interesting. I can't tell how I feel about either upon first listen.


Freq response if from 40-20000, so must be very bright without much bass I guess.


----------



## MrMan

AkashS04 said:


> Koss KDE 250? Isn't it uncomfortable to wear? I saw the images and looks very bulky and weird shaped. Also, it looks like IEM and not earbud. Also, looks like thin and bright sound.



This is my first impression with maybe 10 minutes in. The cable is absolute trash. This isn't a deal breaker because if i end up keeping them I can have my friend Peterek recable them. From what I gather these don't fit in your ears like IEM nor do they rest in your ears like a traditional earbud. Just one edge of 13mm driver touches your ear.  I can't see how these would cause any pain. They feel super light and comfortable. The challenge is  figuring out how to put them on and then trying to adjust them so they sound good. As I was typing I think I stumbled on how to put on and adjust them properly. They don't move now and feel secure.  The bass is awesome on these, it sounds like a full size headphone. What isn't so good is the 2 drivers don't seem to work well together. There are these really nasty spikes in the frequency range. You'll be listening to a song and one instrument will stand out twice as loud. It reminds me of grado 80 just harsher spikes.


----------



## chinmie

cqtek said:


> Thank you so much for your opinion.
> 
> I think it's not possible that burning changes the sound from poor to great, so sure I will not buy it.
> I will try with Edifier H180, they are in Amazon Spain at the same price than AE



in some cases on my earbuds and iems, the sound do change for the better after burn in, while others are great out of the box and do not change too much. 

do you have  the EMX500? if you do, i think it would be redundant, because they share similar sound signature with the EMX500 having better resolution


----------



## Ver JJ

Any of you guys own a Edifier H186p in this thread? I just bought this unit yeasterday and found out that there are a few problems with my unit.......... First of all is channel imbalance which is that right side is louder than left side.......... Second, the left side driver seems to rumble whenever I crank the volume higher which cause the first problem I mentioned above................ do I have to resoder it as when I cracked the case open, every sodering points seems to be in place........... or will burning in help too?............. (I am burning it in right now.......... anyways............)


----------



## chinmie

Ver JJ said:


> Any of you guys own a Edifier H186p in this thread? I just bought this unit yeasterday and found out that there are a few problems with my unit.......... First of all is channel imbalance which is that right side is louder than left side.......... Second, the left side driver seems to rumble whenever I crank the volume higher which cause the first problem I mentioned above................ do I have to resoder it as when I cracked the case open, every sodering points seems to be in place........... or will burning in help too?............. (I am burning it in right now.......... anyways............)



if I'm not mistaken, the info from a local forum is that the imbalance thing are frequent thing to the H186p. I read someone had that problem, exchange it for a new one, and still have the same problem. they said it was because of the mic, and that by recabling it without mic will fix the problem


----------



## Vy7478

Just got the **** Z&W's and wow... these are pretty great even without much burn-in. Similar signature to the Monk+ but much more detail and dynamics. Compared to the Tomahawks, these are still very detailed and makes the Tomahawks sound a little thin, very happy and well worth the 39USD price tag


----------



## tinkertailor

AkashS04 said:


> Is TY Hi-Z 150s Ohms available with Mic also? Can someone pls hare the link?



The Ty 150s are only available with mic if you get them with no speakers. Just search it on Aliexpress.


----------



## Robert Turnbull

AkashS04 said:


> Basically I am looking for any High Impedence bud which has almost same sound quality of SHE3800? Or at least good boomy bass and warm sound. 314P Shell will be good (like SH3800 ones). But mic is mandatory and I think there is none in the market like these criterias.



I think this has been said already..

A high impedance bud/headphone is usually designed to sound optimal when driven by dedicated hardware, such as an AMP or a DAC/AMP.. Thus when designing, there is no need for a mic as the target audience will not be using it with a phone anyways..

Why dont you try a Zishan Z1? Its a relatively cheap DAC/AMP that sounds better than its price. It can even be used as a screenless music player.


----------



## Ver JJ

chinmie said:


> if I'm not mistaken, the info from a local forum is that the imbalance thing are frequent thing to the H186p. I read someone had that problem, exchange it for a new one, and still have the same problem. they said it was because of the mic, and that by recabling it without mic will fix the problem



Ahh, I see, thank you very much, maybe to bug you a little bit do you know how to remove the cable from the shell because what I could do was to pop open the cap that the driver is adheased to. I tried to tug the cable real hard....... but the cable did not even budge at all............. still in burning in, I will check it out when I return home...........


----------



## chinmie

Ver JJ said:


> Ahh, I see, thank you very much, maybe to bug you a little bit do you know how to remove the cable from the shell because what I could do was to pop open the cap that the driver is adheased to. I tried to tug the cable real hard....... but the cable did not even budge at all............. still in burning in, I will check it out when I return home...........



no trouble at all, but I'm afraid i can't mod earbuds even to safe my life
maybe the other members could chime in?


----------



## AkashS04 (Aug 1, 2017)

MrMan said:


> This is my first impression with maybe 10 minutes in. The cable is absolute trash. This isn't a deal breaker because if i end up keeping them I can have my friend Peterek recable them. From what I gather these don't fit in your ears like IEM nor do they rest in your ears like a traditional earbud. Just one edge of 13mm driver touches your ear.  I can't see how these would cause any pain. They feel super light and comfortable. The challenge is  figuring out how to put them on and then trying to adjust them so they sound good. As I was typing I think I stumbled on how to put on and adjust them properly. They don't move now and feel secure.  The bass is awesome on these, it sounds like a full size headphone. What isn't so good is the 2 drivers don't seem to work well together. There are these really nasty spikes in the frequency range. You'll be listening to a song and one instrument will stand out twice as loud. It reminds me of grado 80 just harsher spikes.


That's what. It is useless to spend so much money to get a piece of trash and ear piercing harsh sound. Even if there is some bass, harsh spikes will make it zero and uncomfortable completely.



Robert Turnbull said:


> I think this has been said already..
> 
> A high impedance bud/headphone is usually designed to sound optimal when driven by dedicated hardware, such as an AMP or a DAC/AMP.. Thus when designing, there is no need for a mic as the target audience will not be using it with a phone anyways..
> 
> Why dont you try a Zishan Z1? Its a relatively cheap DAC/AMP that sounds better than its price. It can even be used as a screenless music player.



I already have best ever sounding iPod Nano 1G. Even better than $400-500 DACs and Music Players I guess. Though, my original one I accidentally replaced under iPod Nano replacement program and got No bass and not warm version iPod Nano 7G. 1G, bought from ebay, somehow don't feel same sounding like my replaced one so not using that. Also, I don't want to carry 2-2 devices and PowerAmp has good airy and bassy sound. I saw Zishan DAC, it looks very bulky and I guess heavy also. 

Also, full potential of these music players will be seen only if you have lossless or FLAC music files which is hard to get.



Robert Turnbull said:


> I think this has been said already..
> 
> A high impedance bud/headphone is usually designed to sound optimal when driven by dedicated hardware, such as an AMP or a DAC/AMP.. Thus when designing, there is no need for a mic as the target audience will not be using it with a phone anyways..
> 
> Why dont you try a Zishan Z1? Its a relatively cheap DAC/AMP that sounds better than its price. It can even be used as a screenless music player.


Just wanted to say that I already have iPod Nano Player which is even better than Zishan in terms of quality and sound also but I am preferring my Mobile to listen to the music now a days as finding it much easier to change song or increase, decrease volume or simply taking the call if I get any during listening to the music. But as I found couple of earbud spoiled while using PowerAmp, that's why I wanted high impedence bud as I found only Monk+ did not break. However, its mic stopped working after some time  but noting happened to speakers. I wish I can replace cables of all earbuds  have 

[Mod Edit - consolidating posts]


----------



## AkashS04

Did anyone try them: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...id=b4648580-c9c8-4274-aefc-9ba6c5f6697e&tpp=1


----------



## cqtek

chinmie said:


> in some cases on my earbuds and iems, the sound do change for the better after burn in, while others are great out of the box and do not change too much.
> 
> do you have  the EMX500? if you do, i think it would be redundant, because they share similar sound signature with the EMX500 having better resolution



Yes, I have EMX500 also, but I have some fit problems with MX500 shells, this is why I search some alternative with little shells like Edifier H180.


----------



## AkashS04

AkashS04 said:


> Did anyone try them: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...id=b4648580-c9c8-4274-aefc-9ba6c5f6697e&tpp=1


Seems they are Planronics Blackbeat 116 and have no bass. Good for taking and listening to audio books etc.


----------



## noknok23

I was speaking few days earlier about ty hi z 150s and some concern about fatiguing treble... after a couple of days of burn in, things have settled and it sound really amazing on balanced with aune M1s - true All Rounder, excellent soundstage, clarity and separation. Bright but very big sound. hype is deserved imo  haven't done any critical comparison with high impedance totl yet but it's a must if you don't own any top of the line earbuds imho.


----------



## AkashS04 (Aug 1, 2017)

Cable in Seahf-AWK-F32T is nice and looks of good quality. But again no mic in this earbud and low impedence (32 Ohms).

Is Qian25 available with mic option?

Is SHE3800 not available on AE or Penon? Why as they seem to be popular one?

[Mod Edit - consolidating posts)


----------



## Makahl (Aug 1, 2017)

noknok23 said:


> I was speaking few days earlier about ty hi z 150s and some concern about fatiguing treble... after a couple of days of burn in, things have settled and it sound really amazing on balanced with aune M1s - true All Rounder, excellent soundstage, clarity and separation. Bright but very big sound. hype is deserved imo  haven't done any critical comparison with high impedance totl yet but it's a must if you don't own any top of the line earbuds imho.



After many models, apparently, this model is their sweet spot! I'll order one, thank you!


----------



## rkw (Aug 1, 2017)

golov17 said:


> @AkashS04
> If you do not stop asking the same questions 1000 times the same thing, this topic is can simply blocked, lol. Have pity on us!


I gave up and put him on my ignore list. I've replied to his questions many times and it got too frustrating when it doesn't seem to sink in. Now reading this thread is a breeze!


----------



## AkashS04 (Aug 1, 2017)

Makahl said:


> After many models, apparently, this model is their sweet spot! I'll order one, thank you!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sir. I did not mark your post as offensive or anything. Not sure why it was deleted. And no one he is here helped me except cpl of times. That is the reason why few of my posts are repeated.



golov17 said:


> @AkashS04
> If you do not stop asking the same questions 1000 times the same thing, this topic is can simply blocked, lol. Have pity on us!


I don't think this is ever answered. But anyway. No issue.



rkw said:


> I gave up and put him on my ignore list. I've replied to his questions many times and it got too frustrating when it doesn't seem to sink in. Now reading this thread is a breeze!


Do you think that I am begging you to reply me or if you don't reply me or any of my post, then I will not be able to get things done? Or do you think you are some celebrity who is ignoring some fan?



golov17 said:


> @AkashS04
> If you do not stop asking the same questions 1000 times the same thing, this topic is can simply blocked, lol. Have pity on us!


I remember you only suggested me to buy Elecom Xbass earbud which does not have any bass at all. Luckily I bought from Ebay so got money back. My request is if you have not heard of the earbud, then why you suggested me to buy?


----------



## noknok23

AkashS04 said:


> Cable in Seahf-AWK-F32T is nice and looks of good quality. But again no mic in this earbud and low impedence (32 Ohms).


https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/Seah...-Flat-Head-Earphone-with-Mic/32807173593.html


----------



## AkashS04

noknok23 said:


> https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/Seah...-Flat-Head-Earphone-with-Mic/32807173593.html


Thanks buddy. Do you know if TY Hi-Z 150S is also available in Mic. The cable in 32 Ohms is different and looks not bassy as Freq response is from 20-20k. In case of 150S, it is from 10-20k


----------



## slappypete

AkashS04 said:


> Thanks buddy. Do you know if TY Hi-Z 150S is also available in Mic. The cable in 32 Ohms is different and looks not bassy as Freq response is from 20-20k. In case of 150S, it is from 10-20k



Those frequency response ranges ( 10-20k, 20-20k etc) are meaningless. Unfortunately you can't determine which bud has more bass by looking at the spec sheet.


----------



## noknok23 (Aug 1, 2017)

Y


AkashS04 said:


> Thanks buddy. Do you know if TY Hi-Z 150S is also available in Mic. The cable in 32 Ohms is different and looks not bassy as Freq response is from 20-20k. In case of 150S, it is from 10-20k


Using High Impedance with phone will result in thin sound and no bass!! no matter how much bass there is suppose to be in the earbuds!! Get a zishan or a walnut please... high power will bring more bass to any earbuds you already own.


----------



## Brooko

[Mod Comment]

We don't like getting called to threads - repeatedly, so I'll try and cover with a blanket response.


We don't allow reference to banned sellers on head-Fi.  Not in threads.  Not in reviews.  In case anyone not aware, "****" and "****" are a subsidiary brand of WEasy. **** is banned for multiple offences - you can read about them here - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chi...iems-amps-dacs.684159/page-2008#post-12676708
Personally I would never support anyone who has these sorts of ethics.


Please do not make multiple posts in a row.  When we encounter these, they will be deleted.  It is known as spamming a thread, and it breaks our rules. Repeated ignoring of this rule may result in removal from a thread.


Please do not play the role of Moderator (unless you actually are one  ).  If you see something which breaks our rules (note  - not something you simply don't agree with - but something which actually breaks the rules), then report it, but do not respond.  There is less for us to clean up that way.

The following are not rules - but sage bits of advice which may make life easier in the thread.

Posts like this get annoying and members soon get peeved enough to report things.


> Is SHE3800 not available on AE or Penon? Why as they seem to be popular one?


Don't be lazy - go to Penon and find out for yourself.  Members here are not your personal assistants.
For simple questions - please use the search function first, to see if someone has already answered your query
We have a block feature for a reason.  if a member is really getting annoying, we suggest using it.  Easier for everyone that way.


----------



## AkashS04 (Aug 1, 2017)

noknok23 said:


> Y
> 
> Using High Impedance with phone will result in thin sound and no bass!! no matter how much bass there is suppose to be in the earbuds!! Get a zishan or a walnut please... high power will bring more bass to any earbuds you already own.


So you are saying that High impedence  = thin sound and less bass? However, I wanted High Impdence bud as I am using PowerAmp and don't want two devices to carry at same time. As far as Zishan or Walnut is concerned, I already have iPod Nano 1G which is even better than these. But again, I cannot take call using iPod Nano 1G 



Brooko said:


> [Mod Comment]
> 
> We don't like getting called to threads - repeatedly, so I'll try and cover with a blanket response.
> 
> ...


----------



## Robert Turnbull (Aug 1, 2017)

AkashS04 said:


> That's what. It is useless to spend so much money to get a piece of trash and ear piercing harsh sound. Even if there is some bass, harsh spikes will make it zero and uncomfortable completely.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Its good to understand what a DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) and what an AMP (Amplifier) does.. the dac feeds the base signal to the amp to be amplifed.

The old ipod nano might have a good dac chip, but the amp which amplifies the signals for the headphone is inadequate to drive high impedance buds. Thats why its better to pair lower impedences (16-64) with such devices. Also a weak amp will be more prone to clipping and distortion if driven near its max levels.

For the zishan z1 it has an ESS DAC which is no slouch, and has a very low noise floor (no hissing). Its AMP is also very powerful (relative to an ipod) and can drive 16-650 ohm buds. Its also quite a small device, most pictures are zoomed in. Its about the size of a credit card.

Also have you heard a Zishan Z1/Z2 to assert your view of its sound quality?


----------



## AkashS04 (Aug 1, 2017)

Robert Turnbull said:


> Its good to understand what a DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) and what an AMP (Amplifier) does.. the dac feeds the base signal to the amp to be amplifed.
> 
> The old ipod nano might have a good dac chip, but the amp which amplifies the signals for the headphone is inadequate to drive high impedance buds. Thats why its better to pair lower impedences (16-64) with such devices. Also a weak amp will be more prone to clipping and distortion if driven near its max levels.
> 
> ...


Did not hear Zishan or any other player but from pic it was looking  bulky so I did not think of it. I doubt that it will be better than iPod in terms of quality but I have not heard and I don't think it is available to see and listen in any shop. iPod Nano 7G is only 30g weight and very small. I guess the iPod Nano 1G which I bought from Ebay, may not be that good  what I had earlier which I get replaced under Apple scheme. I guess some really basshead bud can make Nano 7G sound better and warmer as that it too too bright.



Robert Turnbull said:


> Its good to understand what a DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) and what an AMP (Amplifier) does.. the dac feeds the base signal to the amp to be amplifed.
> 
> The old ipod nano might have a good dac chip, but the amp which amplifies the signals for the headphone is inadequate to drive high impedance buds. Thats why its better to pair lower impedences (16-64) with such devices. Also a weak amp will be more prone to clipping and distortion if driven near its max levels.
> 
> ...


Just one question, does Zishan add kind of airyness and studio kind of sound in the song which PowerAmp does.


----------



## Vy7478

Brooko said:


> [Mod Comment]
> 
> We don't like getting called to threads - repeatedly, so I'll try and cover with a blanket response.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the clarification. Apologies I did not know about the ban.


----------



## Robert Turnbull

AkashS04 said:


> Did not hear Zishan or any other player but from pic it was looking  bulky so I did not think of it. I doubt that it will be better than iPod in terms of quality but I have not heard and I don't think it is available to see and listen in any shop. iPod Nano 7G is only 30g weight and very small. I guess the iPod Nano 1G which I bought from Ebay, may not be that good  what I had earlier which I get replaced under Apple scheme. I guess some really basshead bud can make Nano 7G sound better and warmer as that it too too bright.





AkashS04 said:


> Just one question, does Zishan adds kind of airyness and studio kind of sound in the song which PowerAmp does.



PowerAMP is software.. its just a good music player and does not affect the quality of the music. But it does have 'sound processors'' such as its EQ settings.

I personally do not use any EQ as i like to hear the music as the artist has mixed it. When I first got my Zishan, the first thing I noticed was my buds felt (a bit) more energetic and authoritive when compared to my Shanling M1..

On a side note.. TY 150s MK2 ordered - balanced version :-D Bought a fiio l26 too ..


----------



## AkashS04

Robert Turnbull said:


> PowerAMP is software.. its just a good music player and does not affect the quality of the music. But it does have 'sound processors'' such as its EQ settings.
> 
> I personally do not use any EQ as i like to hear the music as the artist has mixed it. When I first got my Zishan, the first thing I noticed was my buds felt (a bit) more energetic and authoritive when compared to my Shanling M1..
> 
> On a side note.. TY 150s MK2 ordered - balanced version :-D Bought a fiio l26 too ..


Ok. PowerAmp has EQ but I guess it adds something in the music which gives studio effect and more bass and airyness. Sound becomes more warmer in PowerAmp. Need good buds to see how it feels in iPod or any other player I can try out somewhere.  TY- 150s is not with Mic so I might not be able to buy. But seems to be a good bassy and warm bud from specs


----------



## KookaBurrra (Aug 1, 2017)

AkashS04 said:


> TY- 150s is not with Mic so I might not be able to buy. But seems to be a good bassy and warm bud from specs


Did you read the review about it on head-fi? It's a bright signature earbud with "sparkling treble", not "warm" at all... https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ty-hi-z-150s.22531/reviews
Review said "To conclude, *150 is a bright sounding earbud* with great sub-bass extension, transparent mids and organic treble."

About "from specs" : specs said NOTHING about the earbud sound signature, the frequency response did not tell you anything about how sound a earbud in reality.



AkashS04 said:


> So you are saying that High impedence  = thin sound and less bass?



NO!! He did NOT said that!
Read again, he just said that an earbud with High Impedance *on your smartphone* going to have "thin sound and less bass" because in that case earbud did not have the good quantity of amplification to sound as they should. A smartphone can't drive correctly an earbud with High impedance.


----------



## BoomBap08

Hi, guys!

Just wanna ask for recommendations for a midcentric or at least a neutral buds with clear, articulate mids.

Been on hiatus for a couple of months now as I thought I'm already good with a Hi-Z 150 and 32 set (the former being my go-to buds for rock, Hip Hop, and the latter for vocals) but it turns out that I'm done with the 32ohm variant and would want to try another buds that could replace it in my little set.

That said, the last time I'm here, I heard good things about the Aglamour RX1.

Anyway, what are your thoughts about these two and if possible, you could also suggest other buds that fits the bill that I'm looking for. Price should be under $30. Well, it would be better if it's just hovering around $20 lol.

Hoping for your kind response, guys. Thanks!


----------



## chinmie

like @BoomBap08,  i'm also looking for a more neutral/ mid and treble emphasized buds (the most mid and treble one in my collection is thr red demun). without regarding the price, which is better between the moondrop vx pro, and auglamour rx-1?


----------



## wskl

BoomBap08 said:


> Hi, guys!
> 
> Just wanna ask for recommendations for a midcentric or at least a neutral buds with clear, articulate mids.
> 
> ...



The PT15 are not midcentric, however their mids are neutral, clear and articulate so they might be what you are looking for.  Something to think about before buying, the shells are made of metal and I find them to be quite heavy on my ears so I cannot wear them for long periods.

There are 2 versions of the PT15, the 1st version which I own have little bass and very bright treble, while the 2nd version is said to be more balanced sounding, I have no idea if they are being sold concurrently or if the 2nd version has replaced the 1st so you may have to reach out to the seller for clarification.


----------



## golov17




----------



## mochill

Want the sunrise audio swd2


----------



## chaiyuta

Brooko said:


> [Mod Comment]
> 
> Don't be lazy - go to Penon and find out for yourself.  Members here are not your *personal assistants*.
> For simple questions - please use the search function first, to see if someone has already answered your query



So elegance move. Like+1000. For those who own 'specific' opinion & aspect about 'things' (and already made a conclusion by themself since from the start). Why do they have to repetitive asking other opinion or asking something that never have been produced in the market? Because at the end, other opinions seems nothing for them and become useless time both personal assistants side and 'those' side.


----------



## ClieOS

noknok23 said:


> Y
> 
> Using High Impedance with phone will result in thin sound and no bass!! no matter how much bass there is suppose to be in the earbuds!! *Get a zishan or a walnut please... high power will bring more bass to any earbuds you already own*.



Note that there is a 100ohm output impedance on ZiShan. I don't own a Walnut myself, but judging from the picture online I'll guess it too has 100ohm resistors on the output stage. The significant about such a high output impedance is that it will greatly reduce the driving current going to the headphone - and when we talk about driving power of the source, we talk about 'voltage x current = power'. What Zishan and Walnut have a lot is voltage, which gives you plenty of volume but doesn't directly give you plenty of power. So what that really means is that, while Zishan and Walnut can outputs a lot of volume, it doesn't mean they are actually powerful. Power is one of the main factor for the source's ability in control / tightness over the headphone, which give a firmer, harder hitting bass. You can have a source that can output only half the volume of ZiShan / Walnut, yet is more powerful because it has more output current - that is the difference between a really good source that has the power to give you the best quality of bass under that same volume, and a source that simply gives you more volume  (quantity) regardless of quality,


----------



## Ver JJ

Robert Turnbull said:


> Its good to understand what a DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) and what an AMP (Amplifier) does.. the dac feeds the base signal to the amp to be amplifed.
> 
> The old ipod nano might have a good dac chip, but the amp which amplifies the signals for the headphone is inadequate to drive high impedance buds. Thats why its better to pair lower impedences (16-64) with such devices. Also a weak amp will be more prone to clipping and distortion if driven near its max levels.
> 
> ...



Well I had and I had also written a review of it, check it out, (Link: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/zishan-family-z1-z2.22550/ ), I am not here to advertise but just to avoid from repasting the same sentence over and over again.


----------



## fairx

ClieOS said:


> Note that there is a 100ohm output impedance on ZiShan. I don't own a Walnut myself, but judging from the picture online I'll guess it too has 100ohm resistors on the output stage. The significant about such a high output impedance is that it will greatly reduce the driving current going to the headphone - and when we talk about driving power of the source, we talk about 'voltage x current = power'. What Zishan and Walnut have a lot is voltage, which gives you plenty of volume but doesn't directly give you plenty of power. So what that really means is that, while Zishan and Walnut can outputs a lot of volume, it doesn't mean they are actually powerful. Power is one of the main factor for the source's ability in control / tightness over the headphone, which give a firmer, harder hitting bass. You can have a source that can output only half the volume of ZiShan / Walnut, yet is more powerful because it has more output current - that is the difference between a really good source that has the power to give you the best quality of bass under that same volume, and a source that simply gives you more volume  (quantity) regardless of quality,


does changing the output resistor to lower  like suggested in some other thread fix the output power or will it introduce other problem?


----------



## AkashS04 (Aug 2, 2017)

KookaBurrra said:


> Did you read the review about it on head-fi? It's a bright signature earbud with "sparkling treble", not "warm" at all... https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ty-hi-z-150s.22531/reviews
> Review said "To conclude, *150 is a bright sounding earbud* with great sub-bass extension, transparent mids and organic treble."
> 
> About "from specs" : specs said NOTHING about the earbud sound signature, the frequency response did not tell you anything about how sound a earbud in reality.
> ...


Hmm. I was talking about 150s which seems to be having good bass. 

As you mentioned that Smartphones do not have amp to drive high impedence buds, I found SHE3800 seems to be bassy and warm when I used in my S6 Edge. 

And Thanks for sharing the review page again. I bookmarked it now.  I guess any earbud which is better than Monk+ in terms of bass but still have warm sound, should wok but again mic is mandatory :|



KookaBurrra said:


> Did you read the review about it on head-fi? It's a bright signature earbud with "sparkling treble", not "warm" at all... https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ty-hi-z-150s.22531/reviews
> Review said "To conclude, *150 is a bright sounding earbud* with great sub-bass extension, transparent mids and organic treble."
> 
> About "from specs" : specs said NOTHING about the earbud sound signature, the frequency response did not tell you anything about how sound a earbud in reality.
> ...


Hi. Not this page, do you have the page there all earbuds reviews can be found? Someone shared the page. Let me search as well


----------



## ClieOS

fairx said:


> does changing the output resistor to lower  like suggested in some other thread fix the output power or will it introduce other problem?



Simply removing or lower the output resistance help to improve current output, provided the opamp of choice is stable on lower impedance load. The larger issue is however the overall gain is already too high, so lowering output resistance only going to make thing worst on volume control and pot balance. The DAC on both ZiShan and Walnut is the ESS Sabre ES9023 with a default 2V output, which is definitely too high for most easy to drive IEM and headphone. Typically speaking, you rarely need anything beyond 1V and most headphone can get really load under 0.5V, Then to make thing worst, there is another gain stage on the opamp to make it even unnecessary louder. So to really tackle the issue, the best way to do it will be to put a pair of resistors between the DAC's output and the opamp input to cut down the DAC's output to around 1V or so, then changing the opamp gain stage to either 0dB or 3dB, depends on how loud you really need and whether your opamp of choice is stable on unity gain or not. Last but not least is to remove the output resistors all together, or keeps it to a really low number, perhaps 3~5ohm. Another way of doing it is to add a bypass inductor in parallel to the output resistors, though that is only required if the opamp is too fast and unstable on higher frequency. All these steps above is how I'll mod them to make them really IEM / easy-to-drive headphone friendly.


----------



## AkashS04 (Aug 2, 2017)

If one earbud has sound pressure level or Sensitivity 98db and other one 108db, according to few users, it will almost double the sound level? Is it right? According to one of them

"_1dB change is generally considered to be just audible, provided the sounds are played one after the other. With a gap in between, there would be no perceptible difference. 2dB is definitely audible, and could probably be discerned a few hours later. 10dB is roughly speaking a doubling of volume._" And according to another one "_1 dB is perceptible. 2 dB is significantly louder. Definitely noticeable._"

How true it is? I noticed that my Elecom earbud has 98db Sensitivity and I can hardly hear anything (outside the room but not in too noisy environment) on 50% volume also. While Vido, which has 104db Sensitivity, can be heard clearly in same environment even if the volume is below 50%.

Some more details:

"_Although 1 dB (~10%) is almost not perceivable as a difference in "loudness", even that one dB might be clearly audible._"
"_The human ear can readily distinguish 3db changes in volume.... Less than 3db it's really difficult to definitively tell a difference. _"


----------



## slappypete (Aug 2, 2017)

AkashS04 said:


> If one earbud has sound pressure level or Sensitivity 98db and other one 108db, according to few users, it will almost double the sound level? Is it right? According to one of them
> 
> "_1dB change is generally considered to be just audible, provided the sounds are played one after the other. With a gap in between, there would be no perceptible difference. 2dB is definitely audible, and could probably be discerned a few hours later. 10dB is roughly speaking a doubling of volume._" And according to another one "_1 dB is perceptible. 2 dB is significantly louder. Definitely noticeable._"
> 
> How true it is? I noticed that my Elecom earbud has 98db Sensitivity and I can hardly hear anything (outside the room but not in too noisy environment) on 50% volume also. While Vido, which has 104db Sensitivity, can be heard clearly in same environment even if the volume is below 50%.



SPL changes of 3db will be the minimum amount that is easy to distinguish. It takes a change of 9db for a perceived doubling of volume. This doesn't mean you can compare the the driver sensitivity of two earbuds and say one is twice as loud, because driver sensitivity is only half the equation. You also need to factor in the impedance of the driver. If you had two drivers with the same impedance, lets say 32ohm as an example, and one had a sensitivity of 90db/mW and the other 99db/mW, then you could conclude the driver with 99db/mW sensitivity would be twice as loud as the other earbud at the same output power.


----------



## AkashS04 (Aug 2, 2017)

slappypete said:


> SPL changes of 3db will be the minimum amount that is easy to distinguish. It takes a change of 9db for a perceived doubling of volume. This doesn't mean you can compare the the driver sensitivity of two earbuds and say one is twice as loud, because driver sensitivity is only half the equation. You also need to factor in the impedance of the driver. If you had two drivers with the same impedance, lets say 32ohm as an example, and one had a sensitivity of 90db/mW and the other 99db/mW, then you could conclude the driver with 99db/mW sensitivity would be twice as loud as the other earbud at the same input power.


Thanks and I agree. In my case, both the earbuds has same impedence so no wonder why vido is so louder than Elecom due to 10db difference in sensitivity.



slappypete said:


> SPL changes of 3db will be the minimum amount that is easy to distinguish. It takes a change of 9db for a perceived doubling of volume. This doesn't mean you can compare the the driver sensitivity of two earbuds and say one is twice as loud, because driver sensitivity is only half the equation. You also need to factor in the impedance of the driver. If you had two drivers with the same impedance, lets say 32ohm as an example, and one had a sensitivity of 90db/mW and the other 99db/mW, then you could conclude the driver with 99db/mW sensitivity would be twice as loud as the other earbud at the same input power.


But does that mean 64 Ohms will need further 10 points up in sensitivity to achieve same level of loudness of 99 db of 32 Ohms? So 99db of 32 Ohms = 109db for 64 Ohms?


----------



## slappypete (Aug 2, 2017)

AkashS04 said:


> But does that mean 64 Ohms will need further 10 points up in sensitivity to achieve same level of loudness of 99 db of 32 Ohms? So 99db of 32 Ohms = 109db for 64 Ohms?



No It doesn't work like that. Lets say your source ouputs 100mW into a 32ohm load, it will then output 50mW into a 64 ohm load. If the 64ohm earbud had the same sensitivity as the 32ohm one, then the 64 ohm earbud would be 3db less loud compared to the 32ohm one on max volume. In order to increase volume of a speaker/headphone by 3db you need to double the output power.

Edit: I changed the wording a bit, was overcomplicating things.


----------



## AkashS04 (Aug 2, 2017)

slappypete said:


> No It doesn't work like that. Lets say your source ouputs 100mW into a 32ohm load, it will then output 50mW into a 64 ohm load. If the 64ohm earbud had the same sensitivity as the 32ohm one, lets say 90db/mW, then the 64 ohm earbud would be 3db less loud compared to the 32ohm one on max volume. In this case that would be 87db. In order to increase volume of a speaker/headphone by 3db you need to double the input power.


Ok. But why only 3 db less while the impedence is double. However, output is also half here for 64 Ohms bud.



slappypete said:


> No It doesn't work like that. Lets say your source ouputs 100mW into a 32ohm load, it will then output 50mW into a 64 ohm load. If the 64ohm earbud had the same sensitivity as the 32ohm one, then the 64 ohm earbud would be 3db less loud compared to the 32ohm one on max volume. In order to increase volume of a speaker/headphone by 3db you need to double the input power.
> 
> Edit: I changed the wording a bit, was overcomplicating things.


In short, low impedence is usually a high volume even at low volume level unless the sensitivity is really low like in 80s. So 16 Ohms earbud with 100db sensitivity will be really loud compare to even 32 Ohms at 110db.

Update - and 9 Ohms will be really loud. Correct?


----------



## slappypete (Aug 2, 2017)

AkashS04 said:


> Ok. But why only 3 db less while the impedence is double. However, output is also half here for 64 Ohms bud.



Because in order to increase volume by 3db you need to double the output power, that is just the way SPL works. If you halve the output power then you decrease volume by 3db. Doubling the impedance of a headphone will halve the output power from the source, hence the -3db, when we have the same sensitivity as the 32 ohm earbud. Sorry if I am making this sound complicated. I'm not the greatest at explaining things like this. I suggest you read up about ohms law and power law, to have a better understanding how all these variables relate to one another. Ohms law and power law are easy to remember, but here is an online calculator anyway.

rules to remember:
3db = perceived change in loudness
9db = perceived doubling of volume
+ 3db change requires doubling of output power
- 3db change requires halving of output power

Here is an example of how to find max output power using the Dragonfly Red DAC and an earbud with 32ohm impedance:

The dragonfly red outputs 2.1v.

So, we can first use ohms law to figure out the amperage used on max volume with the dragonfly red and our 32ohm earbud:

I = current or amperage  V = voltage (from source) R = resistance (impedance of earbud)

I = V/R
  = 2.1/32
  = 0.065625 Amps

Now we can use the power law to determine the max output power of the Dragonfly Red into a 32ohm load:

P = power in Watts  I = current or amperage  V = voltage (from source)

P = I x V
   = 0.065625 x 2.1
   = 0.1378125W or roughly 137mW

Now I will do the same calculations to determine the max output power of the Dragonfly Red into an earbud with 64ohm impedance:

The dragonfly red outputs 2.1V

Using ohms law we find the current draw on max volume:

I = V/R
  = 2.1/64
  = 0.0328125 Amps

Using power law we determine the max output power of the Dragonfly Red into a 64ohm load:

P = I x V
   = 0.0328125 x 2.1
   = 0.06890625W or roughly 68.9mW

Now it is clear to see that when you double the impedance from 32ohms to 64ohms, you halve the max output power from the source.

0.1378125W / 2 = 0.06890625W


Now I will show an example of how to determine the max SPL of two made up earbuds with the Dragonfly Red as source, and hopefully help you understand the whole 3db change needing double the output power rule:

earbud A = 32ohm impedance and 90db/mW sensitivity
earbud B = 64ohm impedance and 90db/mW sensitivity
Dragonfly Red ouputs 137mW into 32ohm load
Dragonfly Red outputs 68.9mW into 64ohm load

remember that for every 3db change in volume, double the output power is required.

For earbud A:

remember we only have a max output power of 137mW.

1mW output power = 90db volume
2mW = 93db
4mW = 96db
8mW = 99db
16mW = 102db
32mW = 105db
64mW = 108db
128mW = 111db
256mw = 114db (we have gone over our max output power)

For earbud B:

remember max output power is 68.9mW.

1mW output power = 90db volume
2mW = 93db
4mW = 96db
8mW = 99db
16mW = 102db
32mW = 105db
64mW = 108db
128mW = 111db (we have gone over our max output power)

So earbud A with 32ohm impedance and 90db/mW sensitivity gets a max volume of roughly 111db from the Dragonfly Red. Earbud B with 64ohm impedance and 90db/mW sensitivity gets a max volume of roughly 108db out of the Dragonfly Red. 111-108 = 3db difference in volume on max volume setting.

Edit: for some reason I kept writing "input power" when i meant source output power, so I changed that.


----------



## AkashS04 (Aug 2, 2017)

slappypete said:


> Because in order to increase volume by 3db you need to double the output power, that is just the way SPL works. If you halve the output power then you decrease volume by 3db. Doubling the impedance of a headphone will halve the output power from the source, hence the -3db, when we have the same sensitivity as the 32 ohm earbud. Sorry if I am making this sound complicated. I'm not the greatest at explaining things like this. I suggest you read up about ohms law and power law, to have a better understanding how all these variables relate to one another. Ohms law and power law are easy to remember, but here is an online calculator anyway.
> 
> rules to remember:
> 3db = perceived change in loudness
> ...



I really appreciate your efforts in explaining this.   It is now much clear to me now 

One query. I noticed that Monk+ has many different colours and versions. Which one is having the best bass among all? Also, if someone has Monk+ and also EM3, which is the best in terms of quality, bass and warmness?  I don't have FiiO EM3 so cannot compare


----------



## Blackground

Shout out to TRITON AUDIO CABLES!

Zen 2.0 White (balanced)


----------



## AkashS04

Blackground said:


> Shout out to TRITON AUDIO CABLES!
> 
> Zen 2.0 White (balanced)


I liked the cables.


----------



## Blackground

AkashS04 said:


> I liked the cables.


Me too! Not as stiff as i was expecting


----------



## AkashS04 (Aug 2, 2017)

Looks few new earbuds on AE: https://goo.gl/H9L9rb



Blackground said:


> Me too! Not as stiff as i was expecting


Check this one with While Cable: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HAN...Head-Plug-Earplugs-Kill-Monk/32814068963.html

Even better quality it seems.



AkashS04 said:


> One query. I noticed that Monk+ has many different colours and versions. Which one is having the best bass among all? Also, if someone has Monk+ and also EM3, which is the best in terms of quality, bass and warmness?  I don't have FiiO EM3 so cannot compare


Also, do owners of Monk+ noticed slightly more sound in right speaker? I am listening to Monk+, though I am not very happy with lack of bass but I must admit that the sound quality is really good. I take back my words (if I mentioned somewhere) that Monk+ is not good   At this price it is really good. I wish slightly increase in bass would have made it really good earbuds.


----------



## tinkertailor

AkashS04 said:


> I noticed that Monk+ has many different colours and versions. Which one is having the best bass among all? Also, if someone has Monk+ and also EM3, which is the best in terms of quality, bass and warmness?


I think the darker colours have better bass


----------



## noknok23

No kidding thought I recall someone noticing some inconsistencies between different run of production of monk+, different colours. Of course it is impossible to tell if it was only the ears or bad luck with his pairs or real difference in tuning...


----------



## AkashS04

tinkertailor said:


> I think the darker colours have better bass


One thing I noticed while listening to the monk+ yesterday, that it has one of the worst fit for my ears. I have to adjust so many times in a min that finally I removed it and stat using vido again. I guess if this kind of fit is there for other colours also, even they are good in sound and bass etc., I won't be able to use them. :| 

Here also sound is good (not great but overall pleasant) but fit it really bad at least for me.


----------



## tinkertailor

AkashS04 said:


> One thing I noticed while listening to the monk+ yesterday, that it has one of the worst fit for my ears. I have to adjust so many times in a min that finally I removed it and stat using vido again. I guess if this kind of fit is there for other colours also, even they are good in sound and bass etc., I won't be able to use them. :|
> Here also sound is good (not great but overall pleasant) but fit it really bad at least for me.


For me, the best fit is the Sennheiser Mx500's....I don't like the monk fit, or the vido, or the ty-hi z, Mr. K, EMX500, or qian 25


----------



## ClieOS

tinkertailor said:


> For me, the best fit is the Sennheiser Mx500's....I don't like the monk fit, or the vido, or the ty-hi z, Mr. K, EMX500, or qian 25



Ain't most of what you have mentioned used the MX500's housing already?


----------



## AkashS04

tinkertailor said:


> For me, the best fit is the Sennheiser Mx500's....I don't like the monk fit, or the vido, or the ty-hi z, Mr. K, EMX500, or qian 25


Ok. MX500 is old model it seems. How good it is? At few places they mentioned that it has good bass response and full bodied and warm sound? Also, do you know if Sony E808+ is available with Mic?


----------



## AkashS04

BTW, I am going to order a soldering iron and will try to recable one of the broken earbuds. Hope this is not too daunting and difficult as I have absolutely no experience with soldering. Trying to find out the tutorials someone shared few weeks back. But one question, is there any recabling service available in US? Also, I will use cables with mic so hope all my earphones (with or without mic) will be converted with mic options only. Is there any kit available which has all tools (and tips if possible) to recable the earbud? I guess all I need to do remove the cable of old earbud and solder the new one and put the shell back. Right? Hope new cables are not very expensive or it will make more sense to just buy new earbud. But if putting microphoned cable in any earbud will make this earbud with mic, then it will be good for example my SHE3800 will start working and will have mic version too.


----------



## golov17

really


----------



## springbay

I got a delivery from Jim's shop at AE today: Vido, K's Earphone K200, K's Earphone K300 Pro, DIY Graphene and also the JAZZ R7.0 amp.


Spoiler: delivery







I only listened to a few tracks on the Vido, K's Earphone K200 and DIY Graphene on an Xduoo X3. My initial impression is that either the DIY Graphene was tuned by the same tone deaf guy that did the 1MORE EO303 tuning or they need some serious burning in. There are like large chunks of frequencies that are just missing. It can't be that they are supposed to sound like that.
Initially I was not that impressed by the K's Earphone K300 Pro. They had some serious slamming bass even with MP+ thin foams, but the detail was too poor and the treble far to veiled for my liking. Others may say they would be perfect for treble sensitive listeners.
I got the JAZZ R7.0 with the intention to play around with some opamps and was not expecting much right out of the box. Anyhow, I wanted to test it and used an X3 and my new K300 Pro.



Spoiler: test



 



And holy smokes. This was a match made in heaven. I simply could not believe the perfect synergy from this stack. Especially with vocal music like 
and other classical music like Argerich's Rach 3. So my advice would be: if you think the K300 Pro sound poor - change the source. They really have potential!

Though, just to be clear. Even if this was great, everything is still miles behind 



Spoiler: the CAX Black






 in my book.


----------



## rkw

tinkertailor said:


> For me, the best fit is the Sennheiser Mx500's....I don't like the monk fit, or the vido, or the ty-hi z, Mr. K, EMX500, or qian 25





ClieOS said:


> Ain't most of what you have mentioned used the MX500's housing already?


Exactly. Maybe the cord, or foams are making a difference for you.


----------



## Ira Delphic

springbay said:


> I got a delivery from Jim's shop at AE today: Vido, K's Earphone K200, K's Earphone K300 Pro, DIY Graphene and also the JAZZ R7.0 amp.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: delivery
> ...




Let us know about the Vido when you have an opinion. And burn in... I believe that takes place _between_ the ears


----------



## noknok23

@springbay  I'm very interested about the graphene earbuds from nicehck, let us know after burn in if anything improves


----------



## rahmish

I have Jazz R7.0 as well and pairing it with my Xduuo X3, using Muses8920 op amp and I really enjoying it!


----------



## AkashS04 (Aug 3, 2017)

rkw said:


> Exactly. Maybe the cord, or foams are making a difference for you.





Ira Delphic said:


> Let us know about the Vido when you have an opinion. And burn in... I believe that takes place _between_ the ears


Vido is good overall. Good Bass and was sounding good even without burn-in and now I feel that bass is slightly less than 1st day now. But the Bass is not very deep and you will feel that it is bass spreading all over your body. One issue is that Vido with mic is not having some problem. For last few days, it automatically fast/forward the song or play/pause the player. Also, if using with phone to talk, it disconnect the call automatically. So I need to buy one earbud of good quality and with mic. And I am using PowerAmp like you with S6 Edge.

Edit - Vido without mic is still good (as he sent it accidentally so sent mic later but did not ask for returning the without mic one). But without mic the cable is J cable which is not good.


----------



## AkashS04

Heads-up to everyone, NICEHCK is going to have new earbud in next few days :-D


----------



## LoneRanger

AkashS04 said:


> BTW, I am going to order a soldering iron and will try to recable one of the broken earbuds. Hope this is not too daunting and difficult as I have absolutely no experience with soldering. Trying to find out the tutorials someone shared few weeks back. But one question, is there any recabling service available in US? Also, I will use cables with mic so hope all my earphones (with or without mic) will be converted with mic options only. Is there any kit available which has all tools (and tips if possible) to recable the earbud? I guess all I need to do remove the cable of old earbud and solder the new one and put the shell back. Right? Hope new cables are not very expensive or it will make more sense to just buy new earbud. But if putting microphoned cable in any earbud will make this earbud with mic, then it will be good for example my SHE3800 will start working and will have mic version too.





golov17 said:


> really



Top Tip.....


----------



## siderak

AkashS04 said:


> Vido is good overall. Good Bass and was sounding good even without burn-in and now I feel that bass is slightly less than 1st day now. But the Bass is not very deep and you will feel that it is bass spreading all over your body. One issue is that Vido with mic is not having some problem. For last few days, it automatically fast/forward the song or play/pause the player. Also, if using with phone to talk, it disconnect the call automatically. So I need to buy one earbud of good quality and with mic. And I am using PowerAmp like you with S6 Edge.
> 
> Edit - Vido without mic is still good (as he sent it accidentally so sent mic later but did not ask for returning the without mic one). But without mic the cable is J cable which is not good.



I have the same problems using earbuds with mic for my iphone. I tie a piece of thread around the base of the plug to offset how it seats in the jack and the problems with unwanted pause, call drops, fast forwarding, etc go away. Works on vido and yincrow x6.


----------



## AkashS04

siderak said:


> I have the same problems using earbuds with mic for my iphone. I tie a piece of thread around the base of the plug to offset how it seats in the jack and the problems with unwanted pause, call drops, fast forwarding, etc go away. Works on vido and yincrow x6.


So this issue is with X6 as well. I thought that is good quality earbud. Did you mean that you tie a thread very tight near the jack of the earbud and it soled the issue? Any pic if you can post so I can see pls?


----------



## AkashS04

siderak said:


> I have the same problems using earbuds with mic for my iphone. I tie a piece of thread around the base of the plug to offset how it seats in the jack and the problems with unwanted pause, call drops, fast forwarding, etc go away. Works on vido and yincrow x6.


Mic of my Monk+ was also broken. And one of the speakers of my Vrmei earbud was also broken. I guess these earbuds are good in a way that they are low prices but the quality wise they are not very good.


----------



## Robert Turnbull

tinkertailor said:


> For me, the best fit is the Sennheiser Mx500's....I don't like the monk fit, or the vido, or the ty-hi z, Mr. K, EMX500, or qian 25





ClieOS said:


> Ain't most of what you have mentioned used the MX500's housing already?





rkw said:


> Exactly. Maybe the cord, or foams are making a difference for you.



I think this was a /s reference as it was said that the Vido is a good fit.. and the monk is a bad fit.. despite both being MX500s.... If i can remember the older posts well


----------



## AkashS04

Robert Turnbull said:


> I think this was a /s reference as it was said that the Vido is a good fit.. and the monk is a bad fit.. despite both being MX500s.... If i can remember the older posts well


I found most comfortable fit in SHE3800 and also in vrmei (it seems it has same shell like 3800). You won't feel that you are wearing them at all. And obviously, good quality sound. But both broken in my case. One of the speakers in both are no longer working. Ironically, left and right respectively, so on a lighter note, is it possible to merge them in some way I an hear both speakers working


----------



## siderak

AkashS04 said:


> So this issue is with X6 as well. I thought that is good quality earbud. Did you mean that you tie a thread very tight near the jack of the earbud and it soled the issue? Any pic if you can post so I can see pls?


It seems to be an issue with anything not specifically made for iphone. 
I can post a pic later but basically I tie it around the base of the tip of the plug so it's not 100% flush with the jack.


----------



## AkashS04

siderak said:


> It seems to be an issue with anything not specifically made for iphone.
> I can post a pic later but basically I tie it around the base of the tip of the plug so it's not 100% flush with the jack.


But I am using Android so this is not specific to iPhone. It has more to do with the quality of the earbud rather than iPhone or Android. I will try to tie it and see it this works. Did you use normal thread or thin but strong one which can do not tear white you are tightening it.


----------



## siderak

AkashS04 said:


> But I am using Android so this is not specific to iPhone. It has more to do with the quality of the earbud rather than iPhone or Android. I will try to tie it and see it this works. Did you use normal thread or thin but strong one which can do not tear white you are tightening it.



I used a strong medium thread, kind of like what they use to stitch jeans. A tiny and thin rubber washer would probably work too.


----------



## siderak

siderak said:


> I used a strong medium thread, kind of like what they use to stitch jeans. A tiny and thin rubber washer would probably work too.


I remembered an idea that I'll probably do today, use a 1/8 " hole puncher on some tyvek and cut a little washer around that. I think it will do the trick.


----------



## AkashS04

siderak said:


> I remembered an idea that I'll probably do today, use a 1/8 " hole puncher on some tyvek and cut a little washer around that. I think it will do the trick.





siderak said:


> I used a strong medium thread, kind of like what they use to stitch jeans. A tiny and thin rubber washer would probably work too.


Let me try couple of things and see what goes well.


----------



## Hifisnubben (Aug 3, 2017)

My latest diy project. Have had some days burning them in and just general listening. Very happy with the result. My feeling is that the sound did improve, tighter bass, better resolution and so on. Disclaimer: since i built them myself i may just be bias and hearing things i want to.

Earbud: White Vido, J-cable.
Cable: Oyaide coaxial 102SSC
Connector: Amphenol goldplated straight plug.
Splitter: Eidolic E-SX4
Solder: Cardas Quad Eutectic

Build: Quite straight forward process. Soldered the plug first. The connectors big lugs made it simple. Spitted the cable down to a resonable lenght for both ears. To make the splitter stay put i used transparent silicone.

Removed the drivers with grill for each channel. I was able to do this with my fingers. Fried the left channel on my first attemt so caution is needed when soldering / desoldering. Had a donor Vido just in case that happened so i was able to complete the build. Result as pictured. Added donuts from Hiegi.

Cost: Estimated 50-55$ in total.

Pros: i now own a unique vido that do sound really good to my ears.

Cons: the cable is a little stiffer than i would like and its microphonic wich is a bummer. But i can live with that.

Regards


----------



## AkashS04 (Aug 3, 2017)

Hifisnubben said:


> My latest diy project. Have had some days burning them in and just general listening. Very happy with the result. My feeling is that the sound did improve, tighter bass, better resolution and so on. Disclaimer: since i built them myself i may just be bias and hearing things i want to.
> 
> Earbud: White Vido, J-cable.
> Cable: Oyaide coaxial. Copper ( tinned or silvered shield ).
> ...


Excellent. I also want to do with my Vido and many other earbuds but never have done so far. How much it costed you to recable it? Is it 1st time you did so and also did you need to buy lug, Splitter etc. or we can buy a cable which is ready to be soldered into the earbud speakers? And if we use cable with mic, will it make the earbud with mic also?

Anyway, looks very good to me. Excellent job.

Update - I did not notice that you mentioned cost $50-55. Isn't it too costly at this price? You can buy 2 good quality earbuds at that price. Also, if cheaper options are available but good quality like readymade cable which will cost not more than $5-6?


----------



## Hifisnubben

AkashS04 said:


> Excellent. I also want to do with my Vido and many other earbuds but never have done so far. How much it costed you to recable it? Is it 1st time you did so and also did you need to buy lug, Splitter etc. or we can buy a cable which is ready to be soldered into the earbud speakers? And if we use cable with mic, will it make the earbud with mic also?
> 
> Anyway, looks very good to me. Excellent job.




Edited my post for cost. Yes, i bought everything seperatly on different occations. Yes, you can buy finished cables on Aliexpress for example wich will be much cheaper than my project. Yes, if you buy a finished cable with mic it will be mic:ed. 

Yes, this is my first earbud project but not my first diy project.

Regards


----------



## AkashS04

Hifisnubben said:


> My latest diy project. Have had some days burning them in and just general listening. Very happy with the result. My feeling is that the sound did improve, tighter bass, better resolution and so on. Disclaimer: since i built them myself i may just be bias and hearing things i want to.
> 
> Earbud: White Vido, J-cable.
> Cable: Oyaide coaxial 102SSC
> ...





Hifisnubben said:


> Edited my post for cost. Yes, i bought everything seperatly on different occations. Yes, you can buy finished cables on Aliexpress for example wich will be much cheaper than my project. Yes, if you buy a finished cable with mic it will be mic:ed.
> 
> Yes, this is my first earbud project but not my first diy project.
> 
> Regards


Excellent. I am yet to order any tool for this. Is there any ready made kit for recabling which has everything required or having soldering iron is enough is one is using finished cable?


----------



## Hifisnubben

AkashS04 said:


> Excellent. I am yet to order any tool for this. Is there any ready made kit for recabling which has everything required or having soldering iron is enough is one is using finished cable?



I used: A plier, a cutter, a sharp blade, a multimeter, a variable solderingiron, solder. 

Thats if you are doing it from scratch.

If you buy a finished cable with plug you still will need atleast a cutter, a multimeter, preferably a sharp blade, a plier, soldering iron, solder.

What i know there is no kit that includes the tools needed for a decent job.


----------



## Hifisnubben

AkashS04 said:


> Update - I did not notice that you mentioned cost $50-55. Isn't it too costly at this price? You can buy 2 good quality earbuds at that price. Also, if cheaper options are available but good quality like readymade cable which will cost not more than $5-6?



Perhaps, but i did it for fun not to save money. The cable alone is 24$.

Yes, ofcourse i could buy several other earbuds for the cost of my project but what is the fun in that ?

The cable i had since before so i had no reason not to use it. The connector and splitter as well.

The whole reason i made this bud was for the pleasure of making it myself and hopefully get a result that i was pleased with. I think i managed both.

regards


----------



## MrMan

So I've given up on the Koss 250's. After about 20 hours of use it's just not worth it. You can get an amazing sound and comfort if you spend enough time. It just doesn't stay that way with movement. If you don't have them in your ears at the perfect angle/fit they are uncomfortable and sound sub par.


----------



## Saoshyant

MrMan said:


> So I've given up on the Koss 250's. After about 20 hours of use it's just not worth it. You can get an amazing sound and comfort if you spend enough time. It just doesn't stay that way with movement. If you don't have them in your ears at the perfect angle/fit they are uncomfortable and sound sub par.



Even reading that I'm still tempted to try them.  They're different, and I'm drawn to that.


----------



## MrMan

Saoshyant said:


> Even reading that I'm still tempted to try them.  They're different, and I'm drawn to that.



I really need to stress this. The cable is absolute crap. That is stock cable vs a standard USB cable. If these were $40 I'd probably keep  them. Used they go between 80-100 which I think is way overpriced for the amount of work it takes. 






Doesn't help I'm used to probably the best cables on here. Peterek's


----------



## PT7673 (Aug 3, 2017)

My White Vido project cost $2.

No sonic difference. My intention is for cosmetic only.


----------



## ClieOS

Using a coax cable to re-cablle headphone is kinda odd, otherwise good job.


----------



## KookaBurrra

Hifisnubben said:


> Earbud: White Vido, J-cable.
> *Cable: Oyaide coaxial 102SSC*
> Connector: Amphenol goldplated straight plug.
> Splitter: Eidolic E-SX4
> Solder: Cardas Quad Eutectic



A coaxial cable have high impedance, not compatible with driver, it may totally change the sound. Why choose that?

This cable have a 75 Ohm impedance, no? Too high for recabling, the result would be completely different than wanted. :-/


----------



## Hifisnubben (Aug 4, 2017)

ClieOS said:


> Using a coax cable to re-cablle headphone is kinda odd, otherwise good job.





KookaBurrra said:


> A coaxial cable have high impedance, not compatible with driver, it may totally change the sound. Why choose that?
> 
> This cable have a 75 Ohm impedance, no? Too high for recabling, the result would be completely different than wanted. :-/



That is indeed valid concerns. But as far as i can tell ( subjectivly ) i cannot disern any ill effect. Rather it improved the sound, again subjectivly.

Neither can i detect any difference in driving these diy buds in comparison with a original Vido.

The above statements may be totally wrong since i cannot measure the buds impedance through the frequency range to tell you for sure.

Is my cable a true coaxial ? Dont know. Its built like one. Does it measure the same ? Cant say either.

Would be interresting to have these and a original vido measured side by side.

My bext Vido project will be a more traditional one


----------



## Frederick Wang (Aug 4, 2017)

NiceHCK Graphite is quite nice


----------



## noknok23

@Frederick Wang  how is the fit? As good as Yuin or better?


----------



## Frederick Wang

noknok23 said:


> @Frederick Wang  how is the fit? As good as Yuin or better?


I never had a Yuin, but I have a Docomo earbud which looks the same shell with Yuin.
They are both great fit, have no complaint. NiceHCK Graphite is a little bit larger though. The only earbud I had a hard time to wear was the 1st gen Monk.


----------



## AkashS04

Any detailed review of Olivian K300: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Oll...Head-Plug-Earplugs-Plat-Monk/32808317778.html

and also any detailed review on Seahf-AWK-F32T: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...760.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.4022fa11VnnWWB

Is Olivian loud enough as it is 105db sensitivity but 320 Ohms impedence.


----------



## noknok23 (Aug 4, 2017)

@Frederick Wang Thank you, looking forward feedback after burn in


I got these because I liked the design and the build. Unfortunately, I find the sound quite bad. Even after 50+ hours burn in, it's mid centric and veiled at the same time. Weird right? Perhaps I got a faulty unit
I think they share a different driver from the usual $10 DIY MX500 which I haven't heard.
https://aliexpress.com/item/Hot-Sel...32821311177.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.9vpCCj


----------



## ClieOS

KookaBurrra said:


> A coaxial cable have high impedance, not compatible with driver, it may totally change the sound. Why choose that?
> 
> This cable have a 75 Ohm impedance, no? Too high for recabling, the result would be completely different than wanted. :-/





Hifisnubben said:


> ...
> Is my cable a true coaxial ? Dont know. Its built like one. Does it measure the same ? Cant say either.
> 
> Would be interresting to have these and a original vido measured side by side.
> ...



You guys might have some misconception on what impedance means on coax cable.

Normally impedance on a cable is the alternative current (AC) equivalent of resistance for direct current (DC), giving you an idea of how much current is wasted when transmitted through a particular length of cable, and the longer the cable the more resistance / impedance there will be. Impedance on a coax cable is however different - to put it in a very simply concept, think of it as kind of a 'pressure' inside a hydraulic pipe. If the source has a certain pressure level on the output and the receiving end has the same pressure level, you will also want the hydraulic pipe (= coax cable) to have the same pressure level so there will be minimum waste of energy transfer from one end to another. The impedance of a coax cable is what described that 'pressure level', so regardless of whether it is one meter or ten meters, the impedance of a coax cable is always the same, because it is not a simple indication of resistance. Thus a 75ohm coax cable doesn't actually has a 75ohm resistance if you run a direct current signal over it, and using a 75ohm coax cable with a 32ohm transducer will not give you a 107ohm headphone - it will still give you about the same 32ohm, plus maybe an ohm or two more, for a typical 1.2m length.

Now going back to  my previous comment - the part I find odd is on the fact that coax cable is generally stiff and thus not a good choice for headphone use, not because it adds too much impedance to the original headphone (as explained above).


----------



## KookaBurrra

Ok, thanks for explanation.


----------



## Hifisnubben (Aug 4, 2017)

ClieOS said:


> You guys might have some misconception on what impedance means on coax cable.
> 
> Normally impedance on a cable is the alternative current (AC) equivalent of resistance for direct current (DC), giving you an idea of how much current is wasted when transmitted through a particular length of cable, and the longer the cable the more resistance / impedance there will be. Impedance on a coax cable is however different - to put it in a very simply concept, think of it as kind of a 'pressure' inside a hydraulic pipe. If the source has a certain pressure level on the output and the receiving end has the same pressure level, you will also want the hydraulic pipe (= coax cable) to have the same pressure level so there will be minimum waste of energy transfer from one end to another. The impedance of a coax cable is what described that 'pressure level', so regardless of whether it is one meter or ten meters, the impedance of a coax cable is always the same, because it is not a simple indication of resistance. Thus a 75ohm coax cable doesn't actually has a 75ohm resistance if you run a direct current signal over it, and using a 75ohm coax cable with a 32ohm transducer will not give you a 107ohm headphone - it will still give you about the same 32ohm, plus maybe an ohm or two more, for a typical 1.2m length.
> 
> Now going back to  my previous comment - the part I find odd is on the fact that coax cable is generally stiff and thus not a good choice for headphone use, not because it adds too much impedance to the original headphone (as explained above).



Thank you for your clarification.

To answer your concerns regarding the cable. Yes, it is a little stiff but less so than Edimun v3 for example when i compare directly. The outer layer of insulation used is quite microphonic wich is a bummer. Maybe there is a solution for that but i dont mind much. 

Other than that it looks awsome atleast


----------



## AkashS04

Does anyone has ever seen this earbud (Open Type block colour one in picture) from Samsung? pls share the link if they are online: https://img.global.news.samsung.com/global/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Earphone_Inearfit_Main_3.jpg


----------



## Frederick Wang

noknok23 said:


> @Frederick Wang Thank you, looking forward feedback after burn in
> 
> 
> I got these because I liked the design and the build. Unfortunately, I find the sound quite bad. Even after 50+ hours burn in, it's mid centric and veiled at the same time. Weird right? Perhaps I got a faulty unit
> ...



I have been burning it for the last 10 hours or so, at this early stage, I found it has wonderful soundstage and instrument separation, but treble is somehow stifled. 
A great choice for the price I paid (about 20 usd). Still have to have more time with them.


----------



## Merlin-PT (Aug 4, 2017)

@ClieOS
Does a coax cable have more capacitance than a parallel cable and that is worst for audio?


----------



## DBaldock9

Merlin-PT said:


> @ClieOS
> Does a coax cable have more capacitance than a parallel cable and that is worst for audio?



Coax cables generally have a controlled capacitance per unit length, and are usually designed for R/F frequencies.  So at audio frequencies, the capacitance is low - which means they probably won't attenuate your Treble. 

Just go to any cable manufacturer website, and look at the wire specs.  The higher the capacitance, the shorter the cable run, before it attenuates higher frequencies.


----------



## Merlin-PT (Aug 4, 2017)

I think in theory coax have more capacitance than parallel wires, but I'm not sure of this, so I'm asking.


----------



## ClieOS

Merlin-PT said:


> @ClieOS
> Does a coax cable have more capacitance than a parallel cable and that is worst for audio?



What @DBaldock9 said. Though in theory a coax cable is supposed to be a worst choice than just a pair of parallel wires (assuming other factors are more or less equal) as far as capacitance goes, the actual capacitance of coax cable for typical headphone length (1.2m or so) is so low that we can pretty much ignore it completely. The capacitance of the transducer itself will likely be much much higher than that of the coax cable. Some sources or amps that have output caps will also contribute much much more capacitance than the coax cable itself.


----------



## Merlin-PT (Aug 4, 2017)

Personally I wouldn't use coax to cable earphones, because it's stiffer, more capacitance, less copper for the same diameter, more expensive, but it's good to know it wont harm either.


----------



## Hifisnubben

Well then. If coax wont dazzle you how about the Deathstar ?! 

Probably the most stupid Vido mod ever made


----------



## Merlin-PT (Aug 4, 2017)

^I've already read the specs about that re-cable you did, but you need to post them here  Fun level: MAX
I also found the other coax cables you did very beautiful and understood your choice.
Do you notice different sound with that cable in vido?


----------



## AkashS04

Someone shared link of all Earbud Reviews here but I cannot find that anymore.Can he pls share again  Thanks in Advance and I will bookmark that this time


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Hum. SO a new Monk product (or more cause they have an iem too now!)...but well, I fall on it reading facebook headfi, it's call VE Monk SPC.
https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=4
Anyone heard them?????

Perhaps it will be....my first Monk. And if it can do well with Thelonious Monk it will be even better


----------



## Hifisnubben

Merlin-PT said:


> ^I've already read the specs about that re-cable you did, but you need to post them here  Fun level: MAX
> I also found the other coax cables you did very beautiful and understood your choice.
> Do you notice different sound with that cable in vido?



Yes, im not good at describing sound  but i find my recable to be more enjoyable to listen to. Tighter low end, cleaner mids and highs. 

My wife gave them a listen and compared to unmodded Vido. Her reaction was that she thought the sound was "more". Yeah i know, very vague but she liked my recable over the original. Of that she was sure.

If you are going to get the oyaide cable do be prepared for some stiffness ( not super bad ) and that its microphonic. But it looks awsome


----------



## teesui

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Hum. SO a new Monk product (or more cause they have an iem too now!)...but well, I fall on it reading facebook headfi, it's call VE Monk SPC.
> https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=4
> Anyone heard them?????
> 
> Perhaps it will be....my first Monk. And if it can do well with Thelonious Monk it will be even better



I think the monk SPC are all sold out by now.


----------



## springbay

Frederick Wang said:


> I have been burning it for the last 10 hours or so, at this early stage, I found it has wonderful soundstage and instrument separation, but treble is somehow stifled.
> A great choice for the price I paid (about 20 usd). Still have to have more time with them.



Have you tried them with


I would say that the Graphene have the anti tuning of what I prefer with that song. Plenty of sparkle but no body at all.
I hope burn in will make them a little more useful.


----------



## Merlin-PT (Aug 4, 2017)

Hifisnubben said:


> Yes, im not good at describing sound  but i find my recable to be more enjoyable to listen to. Tighter low end, cleaner mids and highs.
> 
> My wife gave them a listen and compared to unmodded Vido. Her reaction was that she thought the sound was "more". Yeah i know, very vague but she liked my recable over the original. Of that she was sure.
> 
> If you are going to get the oyaide cable do be prepared for some stiffness ( not super bad ) and that its microphonic. But it looks awsome



I was curious how the solid core silver wires sounded in Vido.
Yes the oyaide coax re-cable you did looks awesome and that's a good reason to use it, but I'm conditioned to use coax cable for the applications it was designed.
It's better to use this thread for DIY posts: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

teesui said:


> I think the monk SPC are all sold out by now.


Yeah....I see this while attempting to order....at begining it say 900 items after I press no mic version (only version)...it say ZERO.
I really want this version to be the first Monk I try so...I write to them to know when they will have more.


----------



## golov17

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Yeah....I see this while attempting to order....at begining it say 900 items after I press no mic version (only version)...it say ZERO.
> I really want this version to be the first Monk I try so...I write to them to know when they will have more.


https://m.facebook.com/groups/832681366809230?view=permalink&id=1423861224357905&fs=2&ref=bookmarks


----------



## chinmie

finally pulled the trigger on these two metal gear solids, I'm glad that i did


----------



## Hifisnubben

Merlin-PT said:


> I was curious how the solid core silver wires sounded in Vido.
> Yes the oyaide coax re-cable you did looks awesome and that's a good reason to use it, but I'm conditioned to use coax cable for the applications it was designed.
> It's better to use this thread for DIY posts: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/



Ah, yes. Was not aware of that thread.


----------



## Raketen

I just want to know where MusicMaker got the SPC cable they used on  TKY2   from,  that's one of the nicest feeling cables I have ever used. Too bad Monk SPC doesn't look the same, I'd buy a few just to reuse the cables


----------



## golov17

@Raketen, this?
http://s.aliexpress.com/VrYfER73


----------



## Frederick Wang (Aug 5, 2017)

springbay said:


> Have you tried them with
> 
> 
> I would say that the Graphene have the anti tuning of what I prefer with that song. Plenty of sparkle but no body at all.
> I hope burn in will make them a little more useful.



I see what you mean, they do sound unreal with this one.
Last night I listened to Ravel's Bolero, Graphene proved to be not good at picking up fine details.


----------



## golov17

Frederick Wang said:


> I see what you mean, they do sound unreal with this one.
> Last night I listened to Ravel's Bolero, Graphene proved to be not good at picking up fine details.


King of details NW Studio Neo


----------



## Frederick Wang

golov17 said:


> King of details NW Studio Neo


More detailed than, say, Rose Mojito?


----------



## golov17

Frederick Wang said:


> More detailed than, say, Rose Mojito?


Yes


----------



## ctaxxxx

golov17 said:


> King of details NW Studio Neo



How much did you pay for it? I kind of want one now after finally seeing all the Kizu movies. They're like $300 on Amazon US. Did the price shoot up like crazy?


----------



## golov17

ctaxxxx said:


> How much did you pay for it? I kind of want one now after finally seeing all the Kizu movies. They're like $300 on Amazon US. Did the price shoot up like crazy?


My friend from Thailand bought for me in Japan


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 5, 2017)

Do people still use buds?  I see more disadvantages with buds.  You can't get a decent seal, and therefore you can't expect decent bass.  This was the factor for the ibuds.  Also, not having the enough isolation raise ambiance noise level, and if that level is high enough you'd have to compensate with louder volumes.

One of the biggest factor that affects sound for small monitors is fit, and buds are not the ones that gives you that.


----------



## golov17

@ctaxxxx , Ebay price


----------



## noknok23

SilverEars said:


> Do people still use buds?  I see more disadvantages with buds.  You can't get a decent seal, and therefore you can't expect decent bass.  This was the factor for the ibuds.  Also, not having the enough isolation raise ambiance noise level, and if that level is high enough you'd have to compensate with louder volumes.
> 
> One of the biggest factor that affects sound for small monitors is fit, and buds are not the ones that gives you that.


imo, way better quality/price ratio than iem, more analog/speaker/open back presentation and incomparable in term of comfort.


----------



## SilverEars

Perhaps you're right with particular buds.  I did own Sony ex-1000 iems in the past, and those interestingly sounded better not being sealed well(which is not the usual case for iems), and was intended to be slightly open with large dynamic drivers to suck in air.  

With buds, you can compensate for whatever lack of seal is bringing down though.

If you can recommend a particular buds that is the pinnacle reason to use buds and a reason to change my stereotypes of them, I will try them out.


----------



## Raketen (Aug 5, 2017)

golov17 said:


> @Raketen, this?
> http://s.aliexpress.com/VrYfER73



Picture on the top left of that Ali page with the knurled connection covers looks very similar. Thanks!



SilverEars said:


> Do people still use buds?  I see more disadvantages with buds.  You can't get a decent seal, and therefore you can't expect decent bass.  This was the factor for the ibuds.  Also, not having the enough isolation raise ambiance noise level, and if that level is high enough you'd have to compensate with louder volumes.
> 
> One of the biggest factor that affects sound for small monitors is fit, and buds are not the ones that gives you that.



Yes there are sound compromises inherent to the design, but IEMs are not a perfection of headphone design either, there are different headphones for different situations I think- plenty of good reasons to use earbuds IMO, and many of the good earbuds are relatively affordable, worth trying if you are curious.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 5, 2017)

It was years ago when there was a short list of small monitors on this site, and at the time Yuin has a long threads of fans, not sure if there are other better bud based monitor around currently.


----------



## noknok23 (Aug 5, 2017)

@SilverEars what budget? sound signature preferences? Amp or not?

otherwise perhaps you can start with vido? enormous bass and clear balanced sound for $4.

seems like now the fengru diy mx500 has the best price/quality ratio for $10 at the moment (haven't heard myself unfortunately)

for high-end, Cypherus Campfred 2 or CAX Black ? (above $200)

and ty hi 150s in the mid tier  $40 had a lot of hype lately but with its upper lower treble it's a love or hate it thing (haven't decided yet where I put myself)

----
from what I own, my favorite are Campfred 1 (analog sound -good sub bass) Blur (clarity, soundstage)
and in budget stuff, nicechk diy pk2 (lovely sweet mids -analog sound like) and some chromed shell earbuds I cannot name (sweet neutral, clear and intimate)


----------



## SilverEars

I've looking for even sounding phones, and can have a big budget(I'm thinking for buds, it's not much of an issue).  So, something that sound reference or even, and realistic or natural sound without loss of defination(not sure if all this is legally achievable. LOL.).  I do like a lot of clarity and resolution foremost though.


----------



## noknok23

@SilverEars Shozy Stardust maybe?? Perhaps someone else could confirm, I haven't heard myself...  check this review though https://everydaylisteningblog.wordpress.com/2017/06/25/shozy-bk-stardust-review-like-a-fine-wine/


----------



## Lv100Pidgeot

SilverEars said:


> Do people still use buds?  I see more disadvantages with buds.  You can't get a decent seal, and therefore you can't expect decent bass.  This was the factor for the ibuds.  Also, not having the enough isolation raise ambiance noise level, and if that level is high enough you'd have to compensate with louder volumes.
> 
> One of the biggest factor that affects sound for small monitors is fit, and buds are not the ones that gives you that.



A few months ago, I decided to dip my toes in the IEM waters with a campfire audio Orion. I really like it! However, there's a fatal flaw. Having a good seal means that walking becomes an incredibly microphonic experience. Every footstep, every time the cord bumps anything, every time my jaw clicks it's all in my ears getting in the way of enjoying what I'm listening to. This is why I'm rediscovering the love I had for earbuds back when I was a teenager. They're so much more comfortable to grab and head out the door to wherever.


----------



## RyanM

Lv100Pidgeot said:


> A few months ago, I decided to dip my toes in the IEM waters with a campfire audio Orion. I really like it! However, there's a fatal flaw. Having a good seal means that walking becomes an incredibly microphonic experience. Every footstep, every time the cord bumps anything, every time my jaw clicks it's all in my ears getting in the way of enjoying what I'm listening to. This is why I'm rediscovering the love I had for earbuds back when I was a teenager. They're so much more comfortable to grab and head out the door to wherever.



You might want to consider a different cable. Not all cables have the same microphonic issues.


----------



## SilverEars

Microphonice as we call them or vibrational energy that gets translated to the ear phones(and thus the ear) from the movement of the cable which is audible can be reprimanded with wearing the cables hooked over the ear.  When the cables are placed over the ear, the vibrational energy for the most part get blocked from the cable sitting over the ear.

Buds should be affected by microphonics as well as the cable is still swinging down.


----------



## Lv100Pidgeot

Just said I'm using Orions, they only go over ear. The issue is that having a strong seal makes vibrations of any kind significantly more noticeable when compared to having a poor seal. Hence why I find IEMs are great for when you're sitting on a bus or at a desk, but buds are better for walking with.


----------



## SilverEars

Really?  Buds better to block out the microphonics?  Even when swinging?  I could see the point regarding the IEMs sealed really well, and the vibration can easily be translated as the better seal has more contract with the ear.  But still, when you are walking with buds, it is still in contact with the ear, and the swinging should be heard.  Perhaps the foam material in cases reduces the microphonics?

I don't find sitting on a bus or train(way worse) good for listening at all.  Vibration though the body gets translated.


----------



## DBaldock9

SilverEars said:


> Do people still use buds?  I see more disadvantages with buds.  You can't get a decent seal, and therefore you can't expect decent bass.  This was the factor for the ibuds.  Also, not having the enough isolation raise ambiance noise level, and if that level is high enough you'd have to compensate with louder volumes.
> 
> One of the biggest factor that affects sound for small monitors is fit, and buds are not the ones that gives you that.



Is your intention with this post, just to stir things up?
With more than 1400 pages of discussion about Earbuds (in this thread alone), it's pretty obvious that the answer to your one question, is "Yes".


----------



## Saoshyant

DBaldock9 said:


> Is your intention with this post, just to stir things up?
> With more than 1400 pages of discussion about Earbuds (in this thread alone), it's pretty obvious that the answer to your one question, is "Yes".



You have to keep in mind we're a very small portion of Head-Fi.  I mean, we could have a meet for all our members in a single room of halfway decent size.  So, I'd say @SilverEars has a legitimate question.

The biggest limitation to earbuds are the bass, but that doesn't mean they're incapable, just not of basshead levels.  Given your preferred sound sig, it's abilities in respect to bass are more than sufficient.  As far as the isolation comment, it's the same on open vs closed headphones for the argument.

The thing to keep in mind is earbuds up until a couple years ago were incredibly limited in options.  It's only been recently that they've had a renaissance.


----------



## ctaxxxx

golov17 said:


> @ctaxxxx , Ebay price



I'm going to have to think about it... The Hanekawa version is $100 cheaper through Amazon Japan, but do sellers even ship international there?


----------



## Lv100Pidgeot

ctaxxxx said:


> I'm going to have to think about it... The Hanekawa version is $100 cheaper through Amazon Japan, but do sellers even ship international there?



Some do, some don't. Usually if I put something from amazon japan in my cart and they don't, there will be a notice saying so and it won't let me check out until I remove that item.


----------



## mochill

ctaxxxx said:


> I'm going to have to think about it... The Hanekawa version is $100 cheaper through Amazon Japan, but do sellers even ship international there?



https://www.buysmartjapan.com/en


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

I already say I adore my DIY MX500....because of a superb bas response among other thing, but unfortunately at high volume that I listen too it can cause distortion...wich limit the real joyfull experience. Anybody have this issue, look like my 2 pairs do this, when I mean bass distortion it's when I give them the big beat stuff, like very heavy in thumping bass-sub music. 
Rock, jazz classical bass do not create that, just idm, techno and rap, but without this distrotion I feel it can achieve INCREDIbLY low and beefy bass performance.
Still adoooooore the MX500, just wanna have a real passionate love affair with them, fusional ya know


----------



## Saoshyant

mochill said:


> https://www.buysmartjapan.com/en



How inhibitive are shipping costs?


----------



## Saoshyant

Nymphonomaniac said:


> I already say I adore my DIY MX500....because of a superb bas response among other thing, but unfortunately at high volume that I listen too it can cause distortion...wich limit the real joyfull experience. Anybody have this issue, look like my 2 pairs do this, when I mean bass distortion it's when I give them the big beat stuff, like very heavy in thumping bass-sub music.
> Rock, jazz classical bass do not create that, just idm, techno and rap, but without this distrotion I feel it can achieve INCREDIbLY low and beefy bass performance.
> Still adoooooore the MX500, just wanna have a real passionate love affair with them, fusional ya know



How much EQ are you using?


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Saoshyant said:


> How much EQ are you using?


Zero....never use EQ to be honnest. Not a fan, especially with Ibasso. 
I like how they sound out of Ibasso DX90 or Xduoo X3+Ibasso Boa amp or Ibasso WM8740 DAC.

I know that I listen music at higher volume that everybody else that I know too


----------



## Makahl

Nymphonomaniac said:


> I already say I adore my DIY MX500....because of a superb bas response among other thing, but unfortunately at high volume that I listen too it can cause distortion...wich limit the real joyfull experience. Anybody have this issue, look like my 2 pairs do this, when I mean bass distortion it's when I give them the big beat stuff, like very heavy in thumping bass-sub music.
> Rock, jazz classical bass do not create that, just idm, techno and rap, but without this distrotion I feel it can achieve INCREDIbLY low and beefy bass performance.
> Still adoooooore the MX500, just wanna have a real passionate love affair with them, fusional ya know



Try to get some 75Ohms adapter like the DUNU ones, it'll give you a better volume control at least. I had a similar problem and I fixed the distortion using it, I won't guarantee it'll solve your problem but since It's cheap and maybe can help you, worth a try.


----------



## mochill

Saoshyant said:


> How inhibitive are shipping costs?


20 EMS


----------



## ctaxxxx

Lv100Pidgeot said:


> Some do, some don't. Usually if I put something from amazon japan in my cart and they don't, there will be a notice saying so and it won't let me check out until I remove that item.



Gave it shot, and failed... Not available internationally...

I see they have a non-Kizu brand version that goes for the same price, so I might bite the bullet and buy from Amazon US to try these buds since the price inflation isn't due to the brand.



mochill said:


> https://www.buysmartjapan.com/en



Don't see it unfortunately...


----------



## knudsen

Nymphonomaniac said:


> I already say I adore my DIY MX500....because of a superb bas response among other thing, but unfortunately at high volume that I listen too it can cause distortion...wich limit the real joyfull experience. Anybody have this issue, look like my 2 pairs do this, when I mean bass distortion it's when I give them the big beat stuff, like very heavy in thumping bass-sub music.
> Rock, jazz classical bass do not create that, just idm, techno and rap, but without this distrotion I feel it can achieve INCREDIbLY low and beefy bass performance.
> Still adoooooore the MX500, just wanna have a real passionate love affair with them, fusional ya know


These are emx500 ( = fengru diy mx500), 32 ohms? if so, yes many have had problems, if you're on facebook join the earbuds group (I'm not on fb) where it has been mentioned many times. To me it seems many for some reason have had problems with the right driver, and me too on the first pair, it is useless now. I tried opening and correcting, but did'nt work. My second pair works perfectly until now, waiting for third pair. I've decided that the chance of finding something better for my taste is too small to buy others, and when I have 2 pairs with 1 bud not working I'm just gonna combine the working buds

I remember one of my first thoughts with emx500 was that it was too powerful for its own good, maybe I wrote it here. I still think that. But it might also be that they had problems with the first batch, it could seem that later ones dont have the problems.


----------



## vladstef (Aug 5, 2017)

Nymphonomaniac said:


> I already say I adore my DIY MX500....because of a superb bas response among other thing, but unfortunately at high volume that I listen too it can cause distortion...wich limit the real joyfull experience. Anybody have this issue, look like my 2 pairs do this, when I mean bass distortion it's when I give them the big beat stuff, like very heavy in thumping bass-sub music.
> Rock, jazz classical bass do not create that, just idm, techno and rap, but without this distrotion I feel it can achieve INCREDIbLY low and beefy bass performance.
> Still adoooooore the MX500, just wanna have a real passionate love affair with them, fusional ya know



I actually had the same problem with Vidos and Fengru EMX500, where they would randomly crackle on one side or both when pushed. In my case, this wasn't distortion but inaccurate membrane position, that is, membranes of these earbuds are not glued to the rest of the driver and they are held all around the edge by pressure that casings provide. In my case, if I were to press on them, very hard towards my head, creating additional pressure on the edge of the membrane as a result, crackling disappeared completely. With Vidos, problem went away when I took them apart and put them back together (somehow, on its own, I guess they were not properly assembled, easiest fix ever though). With EMX, it didn't get fixed on its own after reassembling them. I think the best option would be to extend the edge of the rear casing a little so that it pushes on driver more when you connect the front case to it, for now I am thinking of gluing a piece of paper and cutting the paper nicely to the round plastic. (unfortunately, I managed to disconnect one of the cables and have no access to soldering iron at the moment so I can't say exactly if this works)


----------



## mochill

http://s.kakaku.com/item/J0000019753/?lid=sp_history


----------



## slappypete

I just posted a review of the NiceHCK DIY Graphene here. I am very impressed, and very happy with it.


----------



## Hifisnubben

SilverEars said:


> Do people still use buds?  I see more disadvantages with buds.  You can't get a decent seal, and therefore you can't expect decent bass.  This was the factor for the ibuds.  Also, not having the enough isolation raise ambiance noise level, and if that level is high enough you'd have to compensate with louder volumes.
> 
> One of the biggest factor that affects sound for small monitors is fit, and buds are not the ones that gives you that.



Well, the disadvantage you mention not being able to create a decent seal, is for me atleast a earbuds greatest strength. 

My ears cannot tolerate sealing my earchanal off for a extended period wich causes issues. Hence a earbud resting in the outer ear is a valid option for me if i dont want to use my headphones.

Also the performance of buds has greatly improved the last couple of years. That combined with more walletfriendly prices makes buds a great option to consider.


----------



## SilverEars

Alright, I haven't been so up to date on buds.  Been focusing on IEMs as that's where the hype is at right now, but as you all point out, with the hype comes a cost, the price gouging by companies.  So, I like the idea of buds still being within reasonable price ranges.  

Now, please recommend me the high performers. Thanks.


----------



## chinmie

SilverEars said:


> Do people still use buds?  I see more disadvantages with buds.  You can't get a decent seal, and therefore you can't expect decent bass.  This was the factor for the ibuds.  Also, not having the enough isolation raise ambiance noise level, and if that level is high enough you'd have to compensate with louder volumes.
> 
> One of the biggest factor that affects sound for small monitors is fit, and buds are not the ones that gives you that.



using iems or closed headphones at home will result in lots of "huh??" and "what??" from me, followed by deathly stare from my wive.. can't deal with that. earbuds are the best for that.

what you called disadvantage is what I call awareness

i do love iems though, i always prefer them than earbuds on airplanes, trains, or any noisy situation where i can sit still and don't want to be bothered by my surroundings


----------



## chellity

SilverEars said:


> Alright, I haven't been so up to date on buds.  Been focusing on IEMs as that's where the hype is at right now, but as you all point out, with the hype comes a cost, the price gouging by companies.  So, I like the idea of buds still being within reasonable price ranges.
> 
> Now, please recommend me the high performers. Thanks.



emx500 on aliexpress is probably the best $10 you can spend on buds right now...you should start with them so you can experience some good earbud bass!


----------



## tinkertailor

chellity said:


> emx500 on aliexpress is probably the best $10 you can spend on buds right now...you should start with them so you can experience some good earbud bass!


I love these but myself and others have reported problems with them starting to rattle after some regular (not abusive) use. Unfortunate as they sound so great.


----------



## Raketen

slappypete said:


> I just posted a review of the NiceHCK DIY Graphene here. I am very impressed, and very happy with it.



Got confused by the uncompensated graph of the Stardust for a second lol...


----------



## slappypete

Raketen said:


> Got confused by the uncompensated graph of the Stardust for a second lol...



hahaha, yeah they don't sound the way they look in the graph. A perfectly flat sounding earbud wouldn't look like a flat line in my graphs.


----------



## Danneq (Aug 6, 2017)

SilverEars said:


> Do people still use buds?  I see more disadvantages with buds.  You can't get a decent seal, and therefore you can't expect decent bass.  This was the factor for the ibuds.  Also, not having the enough isolation raise ambiance noise level, and if that level is high enough you'd have to compensate with louder volumes.
> 
> One of the biggest factor that affects sound for small monitors is fit, and buds are not the ones that gives you that.



Personally I cannot stand the feeling of IEMs in my ears, so earbuds all the way for me. The last few years smaller makers have come out with really great sounding earbuds. Mainly China and Indonesia (!) are making big progress earbud wise. In China you have smaller companies that make earbuds, mainly based on standard housings such as the old Sennheiser MX300/400/500. Indonesian DIY earbud makers often take cheap Chinese earbuds and change cable and fine tune them to make amazing sounding earbuds.

Can you get a pair of IEMs for $200+ that come close to the open sound of full size headphones? With earbuds you can do that.

Many IEM users have been amazed by the $5 VE Monk+ earbud. Of course you will not get any seal with earbuds and bass will be lacking compared to IEMs, but you can get a type of open sound that no IEM can come close to. That with even a $5 earbud!

If you move up to $100-200 earbuds you can come close to audiphile level sound. My personal favorite earbud maker is the tiny Indonesian maker Cypherus. If you are used to spend a lot of money on IEMs you could give CampFred 2 ($199 excluding shipping) a go. You might be amazed at how good sub bass a pair of earbuds can give you.
Or yuo could give the neutral Monk+ a try. If you want more bass you could get a pair of $3.99 Vido from Ali Express. The price/performance ratio is just crazy!


----------



## golov17 (Aug 6, 2017)

Danneq said:


> Personally I cannot stand the feeling of IEMs in my ears, so earbuds all the way for me. The last few years smaller makers have come out with really great sounding earbuds. Mainly China and Indonesia (!) are making big progress earbud wise. In China you have smaller companies that make earbuds, mainly based on standard housings such as the old Sennheiser MX300/400/500. Indonesian DIY earbud makers often take cheap Chinese earbuds and change cable and fine tune them to make amazing sounding earbuds.
> 
> Can you get a pair of IEMs for $200+ that come close to the open sound of full size headphones? With earbuds you can do that.
> 
> ...


Agreed .. having recently received WillSound32 from Indonesia, was immediately fascinated by their sound, while the EMS to Russia costs as much as the earbuds themselves, lol 30 + 30 usd


----------



## SilverEars

Guys, thanks for the suggestions(any others with suggestions?).  I will give those buds a try.


----------



## golov17

SilverEars said:


> Guys, thanks for the suggestions(any others with suggestions?).  I will give those buds a try.


Waiting VE Nirvana soon..


----------



## teston (Aug 6, 2017)

Edited.
I found the answer.
Thank you.


----------



## Robert Turnbull

SilverEars said:


> Guys, thanks for the suggestions(any others with suggestions?).  I will give those buds a try.


You can try the NiceHCK PK2.. Personally I find it a good all rounder.. Looks nice too :-D


----------



## Danneq

SilverEars said:


> Guys, thanks for the suggestions(any others with suggestions?).  I will give those buds a try.



What sort of sound signature do you like?

More of an analytical sound signature? Something more neutral and natural? Warm sound with deep and boomy bass (like some people here)?

I'm more in the neutral camp. VE Monk+ is great from an more neutral perspective. The more expensive earbuds from VE are not as neutral sounding. For example, Zen 2 is very warm sounding.

If you are prepared to spend $100+ you can check out the excellent earbud comparison list that ctaxxxx put together. You can find it in his signature: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1466#post-13642562


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 6, 2017)

I think I like "neutral"(I put quotes around it since we all claim we want neutral to some degree, but may not be the reality of it), evened out sound.  Love clarity and detail so that may mean analytical.  I don't mind analytical as I see lacking in it as smooth, and buffered in pushed details.

It's probably contradictory to like forward mids, and also wide sound stage(as they may contradict each other in tuning).  Also, want something neutral, but also wide sound stage.  Perfection would ideally be neutral, clear and detailed, with fine resolving treble trextures with wide soundstage.  I think my wants could be contradictory.


----------



## golov17

SilverEars said:


> I think I like "neutral"(I put quotes around it since we all claim we want neutral to some degree, but may not be the reality of it), evened out sound.  Love clarity and detail so that may mean analytical.  I don't mind analytical as I see lacking in it as smooth, and buffered in pushed details.
> 
> It's probably contradictory to like forward mids, and also wide sound stage(as they may contradict each other in tuning).  Also, want something neutral, but also wide sound stage.  Perfection would ideally be neutral, clear and detailed, with fine resolving treble trextures with wide soundstage.  I think my wants could be contradictory.


Rose Masya bright, Shozy BK with neutral mids and more bass


----------



## Danneq (Aug 6, 2017)

SilverEars said:


> I think I like "neutral"(I put quotes around it since we all claim we want neutral to some degree, but may not be the reality of it), evened out sound.  Love clarity and detail so that may mean analytical.  I don't mind analytical as I see lacking in it as smooth, and buffered in pushed details.
> 
> It's probably contradictory to like forward mids, and also wide sound stage(as they may contradict each other in tuning).  Also, want something neutral, but also wide sound stage.  Perfection would ideally be neutral, clear and detailed, with fine resolving treble trextures with wide soundstage.  I think my wants could be contradictory.



I can suggest 2 TOTL earbuds that might suit your preferences: Shozy BK/Stardust and ABnormal Labs Diomnes (Lv2 - the most TOTL one of the 3 versions of Diomnes).

Shozy BK is relatively easy to find. Diomnes is a "pimped" VE Monk (original, not the plus version). Since the original Monk is disconitinued and difficult to find it can be difficult to get a pair of Diomnes. If you do come across a pair of original Monk you can send it to the ABnormal Lab guys in Indonesia and ask them to make a pair of Diomnes Lv2. I bought my pair when they still had access to original Monk and it cost $180 excluding shipping. Shozy BK is not too far from the sound of Diomnes (Lv2).


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 6, 2017)

Here's a real detail of what I'm looking for:

Transparency:  Depends on recording like how it should output, and details on the recordings are output transparently.

Wide sound stage:  We all know headphones provides illusion of stage and this is probably achieved by V or U shaped signature, but wan't at most good imaging, placements.  Shouldn't sound narrowed off, and wide as headphones can get without perceivable uneven signature.

Separation:  Coinsides with clarity, I want to be able to makeout distinctions of different sounds

Clarity:  This one should be straight forward

Treble:  Should not have a spike or too analytical, but should require to some degree to be resolving and detailed.  It should be fine to cause very good resolution

Signature:  Would Ideally be even or neutral

Dimention:  Should output sound like the real world, have definition and dimentionality to the sound, like an audible shape.  Like 3D in sound

That all put together, done cohesively  would be perfection!


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 6, 2017)

Was looking at Tyll's measurement for earbuds, and they are usually the same, the significant linear bass drop-off.  How is that delt with?  It's obvious, it's the result of lack of seal.  The one with the least steap drop-off is the Yuin PK1.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

vladstef said:


> I actually had the same problem with Vidos and Fengru EMX500, where they would randomly crackle on one side or both when pushed. In my case, this wasn't distortion but inaccurate membrane position, that is, membranes of these earbuds are not glued to the rest of the driver and they are held all around the edge by pressure that casings provide. In my case, if I were to press on them, very hard towards my head, creating additional pressure on the edge of the membrane as a result, crackling disappeared completely. With Vidos, problem went away when I took them apart and put them back together (somehow, on its own, I guess they were not properly assembled, easiest fix ever though). With EMX, it didn't get fixed on its own after reassembling them. I think the best option would be to extend the edge of the rear casing a little so that it pushes on driver more when you connect the front case to it, for now I am thinking of gluing a piece of paper and cutting the paper nicely to the round plastic. (unfortunately, I managed to disconnect one of the cables and have no access to soldering iron at the moment so I can't say exactly if this works)



Interesting and a little frightning too!
So, firstly, after I ask a friend to try the MX500 with my listening volume and he yeal What it'S so LOUD! I conclude I listen music very loudly for real and perhaps this is the real problem....I feel kind of unlucky cause my second favorite earbud MrZ Tomahawk rattle too in one side now (thi is less normal than MX500 I think...perhaps a hair enter it?).
But, my instinct tell me it's perhaps the somewhat tiny loosy cable that go inside earshell that vibrate and create rattling when bass is super loud. DO you think it can just be that?
Brighter source look like to prompt the problem too.
Will try just taping the cable so i'm sure it do not share...but the one connected back of drivers can be the problem. 
Any picture of what is inside MX500???


----------



## slappypete

SilverEars said:


> Was looking at Tyll's measurement for earbuds, and they are usually the same, the significant linear bass drop-off.  How is that delt with?  It's obvious, it's the result of lack of seal.  The one with the least steap drop-off is the Yuin PK1.



I don't think he has measured any of the newer earbuds, which people in here would consider TOTL. You would probably be surprised how good bass response can be in an earbud these days, but still there will be a steeper roll off compared to an IEM. The thing with earbud bass though is that it is very dynamic and punchy, something many IEM's struggle with regardless of how low the bass extends. To give you an idea of what an earbud can do these days, I'll just say that 20hz can be easily audible, not loud and thunderous, but If you play a 20hz test tone you will hear it on buds with good bass response. Treble is also more rolled off in earbuds compared to IEM's. Many people consider the Shozy BK to be a neutral/reference sound signature and also a TOTL earbud. I agree in the context of earbuds, but compared to a neutral/reference IEM, the treble is laid back imo.


----------



## vladstef

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Interesting and a little frightning too!
> So, firstly, after I ask a friend to try the MX500 with my listening volume and he yeal What it'S so LOUD! I conclude I listen music very loudly for real and perhaps this is the real problem....I feel kind of unlucky cause my second favorite earbud MrZ Tomahawk rattle too in one side now (thi is less normal than MX500 I think...perhaps a hair enter it?).
> But, my instinct tell me it's perhaps the somewhat tiny loosy cable that go inside earshell that vibrate and create rattling when bass is super loud. DO you think it can just be that?
> Brighter source look like...


No, drivers don't vibrate that hard to even begin to move the cable in any way. Try playing something bass heavy loudly and when they rattle, keep replaying that section of a song while applying pressure to them, just push them towards your ear. If it disappears, you have exactly the same problem as I do, if it doesn't press harder or if you think you've pressed hard enough (please don't hurt yourself, when I say hard, I mean as hard as you can without damaging your skin or feeling like it hurts too much), than you can conclude that you are pushing them beyond their limits. For me, this rattling happens at quite loud volume, but I do listen to even louder sometimes. When I maxed out my output, working side didn't distort at all, and we are talking about some seriously loud music at this point, so I think that you are having exactly the same problem as I do, which is not enough pressure on the driver.


----------



## Trippin

Can anyone give me an impression of the Edimun v3? Came across the bengelmacro site and it just looked so good. Wondering if the sound is as good. I like hiphop and R&B. Are there better buds for the price?


----------



## golov17

Del


----------



## noknok23

Trippin said:


> Can anyone give me an impression of the Edimun v3? Came across the bengelmacro site and it just looked so good. Wondering if the sound is as good. I like hiphop and R&B. Are there better buds for the price?


Edimun v3 has forward sound with big boomy subass, perhaps the biggest. It's especially good for modern music with small soundstage. I think it could be a very good match with rnb and hip-hop music. I haven't heard them for a very long time so I can't compare... But since they came out. A lot of earbuds with good bass became cheaper and cheaper.


----------



## kurtextrem

Wow the graphene buds seem to change the future of earbuds. If a DIY graphene earbud already sounds that good, I do want to know what happens when something like VE / TY HiZ / Shozy etc starts making those.


----------



## chinmie

noknok23 said:


> Edimun v3 has forward sound with big boomy subass, perhaps the biggest. It's especially good for modern music with small soundstage. I think it could be a very good match with rnb and hip-hop music. I haven't heard them for a very long time so I can't compare... But since they came out. A lot of earbuds with good bass became cheaper and cheaper.



sub bass-wise, the newer buds like vido and emx500 extend deeper than edimun, but mid and high clarity, and overall quality of the sound, to me the edimun is still better


----------



## AkashS04

golov17 said:


> @Raketen, this?
> http://s.aliexpress.com/VrYfER73


This is Nice cable.


----------



## slappypete

kurtextrem said:


> Wow the graphene buds seem to change the future of earbuds. If a DIY graphene earbud already sounds that good, I do want to know what happens when something like VE / TY HiZ / Shozy etc starts making those.



I really like the DIY Graphene earbud, but I don't think the driver has a real graphene membrane. I think at best it might be graphene coated, but it could even just be marketing BS. I opened mine up and took some photos of the inside. Here they are:


Spoiler: DIY Graphene Driver Photos




 




Still, it is a very nice earbud imo.


----------



## AkashS04

SilverEars said:


> Really?  Buds better to block out the microphonics?  Even when swinging?  I could see the point regarding the IEMs sealed really well, and the vibration can easily be translated as the better seal has more contract with the ear.  But still, when you are walking with buds, it is still in contact with the ear, and the swinging should be heard.  Perhaps the foam material in cases reduces the microphonics?
> 
> I don't find sitting on a bus or train(way worse) good for listening at all.  Vibration though the body gets translated.


For me, few issues with IEMs are that they are not comfortable and you will always feel that some alien is inserted in your ear canal. More bigger issue is that you will hear your own voice very loud and coming from the cavity if you sing with the song or use microphone of IEMs for talking. It sounds so unnatural that I did not realise initially and ended up buying JVC and TDK earbud but they are not in use any more and pieces of junk for me.


----------



## KookaBurrra (Aug 7, 2017)

kurtextrem said:


> Wow the graphene buds seem to change the future of earbuds. If a DIY graphene earbud already sounds that good, I do want to know what happens when something like VE / TY HiZ / Shozy etc starts making those.





slappypete said:


> I really like the DIY Graphene earbud, but I don't think the driver has a real graphene membrane. I think at best it might be graphene coated, but it could even just be marketing BS. I opened mine up and took some photos of the inside. Here they are:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: DIY Graphene Driver Photos
> ...



@kurtextrem : It can't be a "real graphene membrane" : graphene is just a "simple layer" of graphite. So, if it is the total membrane, it is in "graphite", of course...


----------



## AkashS04

Any site which sells Japanese Earbuds and also if TDK has any earbud as well or only IEMs? I also looking for comparison between Monk+ and 
New-Seahf-AWK-F32T.
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...760.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.4022fa11VnnWWB


----------



## slappypete

KookaBurrra said:


> @kurtextrem : It can't be a "real graphene membrane" : graphene is just a "simple layer" of graphite. So, if it is the total membrane, it is in "graphite", of course...



It seems there has been a real graphene earphone membrane made in a lab, check out this link, but you are right, this membrane would have to be super thin if it was a single layer of graphene. Maybe they sprinkled some graphite on the membrane and dubbed it a graphene driver lol.


----------



## fairx

A hint of subbass. Thats all i meed for earbud (subbass) . My 320 ohm can produce almost speaker like sound. The bass response that trick the brain. Thumping my chest. Lol


----------



## Makahl

slappypete said:


> I really like the DIY Graphene earbud, but I don't think the driver has a real graphene membrane. I think at best it might be graphene coated, but it could even just be marketing BS. I opened mine up and took some photos of the inside. Here they are:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: DIY Graphene Driver Photos
> ...



I hope in the near future we'll see more drivers like that with real graphene:



Spoiler









and https://phys.org/news/2013-10-future-laptops-speakers-carbon-nanotubes.html





Danneq said:


> What sort of sound signature do you like?
> 
> More of an analytical sound signature? Something more neutral and natural?* Warm sound with deep and boomy bass (like some people here)?*



I'd suggest the old apple earbud + PowerAmp for the biggest boomy bass!


----------



## AkashS04 (Aug 7, 2017)

Makahl said:


> I hope in the near future we'll see more drivers like that with real graphene:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you know if old apple earbud with mic actually available somewhere? I am talking about the same which used to come with iPod Nano 1G but that was without Mic. Later they reduced the driver size and sound was also somewhat thin and not as warm as it used to be in iPod nano 1G earbuds. My Nano earbuds are broken unfortunately 



fairx said:


> A hint of subbass. Thats all i meed for earbud (subbass) . My 320 ohm can produce almost speaker like sound. The bass response that trick the brain. Thumping my chest. Lol


I guess they are not loud and you need to use at least 80-90% of volume. Right? Even Hi-Z 150/150s also. And No mic version or there is any?

Any Review of MusicMaker TP16? 
Also, which one is correct as one says Freq response from 8-25000 and one says 15-28000. Sensitivity is also different which are 113 and 91. If 91, then I guess it will be almost impossible to hear until you put the volume on 100%.

https://goo.gl/YF3Eef

https://goo.gl/eKAFjY

[Merging posts - again!]


----------



## rkw

slappypete said:


> I really like the DIY Graphene earbud, but I don't think the driver has a real graphene membrane. I think at best it might be graphene coated, but it could even just be marketing BS.


It's just marketing, and it isn't even anything new. The **** PT15 also claims to have a graphene driver and it's been around for awhile:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...-Unit-HIFI-Earplug-With-MMCX/32752982333.html


----------



## base08

rkw said:


> It's just marketing, and it isn't even anything new. The **** PT15 also claims to have a graphene driver and it's been around for awhile:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...-Unit-HIFI-Earplug-With-MMCX/32752982333.html


I already read somewhere that's indeed just a graphene coating... it's a new type of driver developed at the end of last year and to our knowledge seems **** pt15 was indeed one of the first comercial earpiece to use it, then came the Xiaomi Pro HD iem, and now seems to be on more products!


----------



## AkashS04

From Seahf AWK-F32 and Toneking TP16, which has better bass and warm sound? And also more thumping bass among them.


----------



## Ira Delphic

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Interesting and a little frightning too!
> So, firstly, after I ask a friend to try the MX500 with my listening volume an*d he yeal What it'S so LOUD!* I conclude I listen music very loudly for real and perhaps this is the real problem....I feel kind of unlucky cause my second favorite earbud MrZ Tomahawk rattle too in one side now (thi is less normal than MX500 I think...perhaps a hair enter it?).
> But, my instinct tell me it's perhaps the somewhat tiny loosy cable that go inside earshell that vibrate and create rattling when bass is super loud. DO you think it can just be that?
> Brighter source look like to prompt the problem too.
> ...



Welcome to the tinnitus club! If not a member today you will be in the not too distant future.


----------



## Saoshyant

Ira Delphic said:


> Welcome to the tinnitus club! If not a member today you will be in the not too distant future.


More shall join us.  Our numbers will swell.


----------



## JesvsR

Thinking about buying the TY Hi-Z 150 Ohm bud, to match it with the Zishan Z2. Just have the Monk Plus as earbud; do you think it's going to be an improvement??. I like detail and soundstage as my sound firm.


----------



## CharlesRievone (Aug 8, 2017)

Saoshyant said:


> More shall join us.  Our numbers will swell.


Another member of the club here, checking in 



JesvsR said:


> Thinking about buying the TY Hi-Z 150 Ohm bud, to match it with the Zishan Z2. Just have the Monk Plus as earbud; do you think it's going to be an improvement??. I like detail and soundstage as my sound firm.


150s' bass and treble extends lower and higher, respectively, compared to the Monk+. Mids are neither far nor in your face. Average soundstage.


----------



## JesvsR

CharlesRievone said:


> Another member of the club here, checking in
> 
> 
> 150s' bass and treble extends lower and higher, respectively, compared to the Monk+. Mids are neither far nor in your face. Average soundstage.



Do you know any earbud known for his detail, for this price??


----------



## gc335

golov17 said:


> Waiting VE Nirvana soon..



Does anyone have any info on the VE Nirvana? New member to the VE Family? Zen replacement? Bud or IEM?  Thanks!


----------



## ctaxxxx

Got the Blur today! Really glad I asked for balanced. They still take more volume than my other buds, even through the balanced port!

Did a quick listen too. They sound very mid forward, but take the analytical approach, instead of warm/relaxed that I'm used to hearing with this type of signature. Very clear and detailed. Reminds me of a souped-up Blue Demun. Wonder if it'll soften after burn in.


----------



## rggz

gc335 said:


> Does anyone have any info on the VE Nirvana? New member to the VE Family? Zen replacement? Bud or IEM?  Thanks!



From the last Lee's AMA on reddit (VE's owner):



> nirvana is the totl we r doing
> 
> zen black is zen 2.0 with cardas CABLE, COPPER ALLOY
> 
> ...





> our zen black is priced at 358usd ~which we sold quite a lot (for a earbud in that "classic" (bad) look, and a very stiff cardas cable ) we r currently working on nirvana ~ which is close to the finish line~(which we have also been doing for the past two year) , I expect more bashing when they are out~ btw the 716usd , zen white is just a guideline price , they are way more expensive than the black, but everybody who can buy them is a customer in the first place and only those who can really afford it I will tell them to get it, with a very straight warning, nirvana is not too far away, or some else ~ for those who r not as demanding , I will try to look them down, we tried to order from oyaide japan , that 4n pure silver cable is just really really hard to order( i suspect some of the brand is just going to like ~ you know...order that cable and put a sleeve on it then sell for 2k 3k lol) , but it is really good, I recommend any cable love to try it~ it is about like 15-20usd per meter, I can't remember exactly~from oyaide japan



I'm just trying to figure out if it'll be another MX500 shell with some special cable and tuning or something really new.
From this quote probably this gonna be something sound-wise better than Zen 2 then expect something expensive. 



> we don't do discount like EVER.
> The Zen is priced based on the sound quality that we achieved, not the cost , like I said the cost of the zen is not that much different than the Monk plus~


----------



## gc335

Thanks! Good info.


----------



## gc335

ctaxxxx said:


> Got the Blur today! Really glad I asked for balanced. They still take more volume than my other buds, even through the balanced port!
> 
> Did a quick listen too. They sound very mid forward, but take the analytical approach, instead of warm/relaxed that I'm used to hearing with this type of signature. Very clear and detailed. Reminds me of a souped-up Blue Demun. Wonder if it'll soften after burn in.


I just ordered my Blur today. Very excited!  I also have the DX200. Good synergy?


----------



## KookaBurrra (Aug 9, 2017)

rggz said:


> From the last Lee's AMA on reddit (VE's owner):
> we don't do discount like EVER.
> The Zen is priced based on the sound quality that we achieved, not the cost , like I said the cost of the zen is not that much different than the Monk plus~
> .





> the monk cost about half (of 5usd) to make~ and zen is not much more expensive than it~ the zen is more expensive labor wise to test and pair matching~ (pair matching down to 1.5 db and following one curve is very hard), but it doesn't cost about the same to make~and the R&D of the zen is very easy



That's clear! And it si something that I'm suspected that for a long time...


----------



## JesvsR

Have ordered the DIY EMX500 and the DIY Sennheiser MX50 hehe... good choice¿

Another thing, how can you order the Blur¿ Are they expensive¿


----------



## rahmish

JesvsR said:


> Have ordered the DIY EMX500 and the DIY Sennheiser MX50 hehe... good choice¿
> 
> Another thing, how can you order the Blur¿ Are they expensive¿


To order a Blur, you need to PM Wong Kuan Wae on a facebook! They not cheap...


----------



## SweetEars

Dark Helmet said:


> Are these stock Vido's? Does treble increase with cable mod?


----------



## doggiemom

ctaxxxx said:


> Got the Blur today! Really glad I asked for balanced. They still take more volume than my other buds, even through the balanced port!
> 
> Did a quick listen too. They sound very mid forward, but take the analytical approach, instead of warm/relaxed that I'm used to hearing with this type of signature. Very clear and detailed. Reminds me of a souped-up Blue Demun. Wonder if it'll soften after burn in.


I have the SE 'silver' Blur, and am very happy with them.  They have a great soundstage and do everything well.  

There has been a lot of controversy about these on the earbud facebook groups, but I think they are a strong performer.  Worth the price?  IMHO that is totally subjective.  Some people seem to have a moral objection to paying a premium for DIY products, but to me it is like going to a street festival...... If you can't afford/don't want to pay for someone's macrame or photo of the local bridge, then don't.


----------



## SweetEars (Aug 11, 2017)

_I just got  the DIY EMX500 and have been using it for a few days. Here is a initial review

the sound signature ihas similar characteristics to the monks. The sound  is just right with a mixture of warm and cold tonality. Warm + sweet sound signature.The sound has interesting "flavours" in treble, mid-bass and bass at different times in a a song or movie.There is decent attack and spaciousness in  the sound with the right translucency , clarity fluidity and layering. They can described as being analytical with a natural, organic accurate sound imaging and wide soundstage with decent layering and resolution. There is less distortion and noise and rather clean. _


*Treble:* A decent amount of sparkle, detail and and crispness. Analytical, smooth and organic in nature. Clear and decent amount of transparency and resolution and weight and presence. There is a certain amount of wetness to the lower treble. No harshness or sibilance.This is where these earbuds trash the monks.

*Mids:* Neither recessed or  too forward but maintains a good sense of presence with a cold tonality.A good amount of detail and smoothness. The lower mids are where the mids excel in detail.Vocals are clear with a certain upper mid emphasis to them for some detail and clarity.Compared to the monks which have a very forward full bodies mid,there is no harshness or fatigue while vocals is still relatively forward. There is a good sense of attack and accuracy to the mids.

*Bass:* Excellent sub bass. Smooth and accurate. There is little distortion with a emphasis on the lower mids to sub bass. there is cold tonality/timbre to the sub bass while the monks have a warm upper bass with sub bass lacking.Bass strong but not overwhelming.

*Soundstage:* THey have a wide soundstage comparable to the monks but detail , imaging  horizontal, vertical depth and clarity is better.Positioning and accuracy is better than the monks but the rhythm ( movement of sound) in the monks is slightly better. But There is better articulation between high, mids and low compared tot he monks which are rather flat.Much lesser noise and distortion than the monks.

Should u buy this over the monks? Yes if u are interested in smooth but clean sound with better details.


----------



## ctaxxxx

doggiemom said:


> I have the SE 'silver' Blur, and am very happy with them.  They have a great soundstage and do everything well.
> 
> There has been a lot of controversy about these on the earbud facebook groups, but I think they are a strong performer.  Worth the price?  IMHO that is totally subjective.  Some people seem to have a moral objection to paying a premium for DIY products, but to me it is like going to a street festival...... If you can't afford/don't want to pay for someone's macrame or photo of the local bridge, then don't.



Was actually listening to them some more last night. They seem too mid-forward, almost to a fault... I'm not too crazy about them from the neutral AMP1 module, but they sound much better through the warmer AMP2. I think their signature makes them heavily source dependent.


----------



## KookaBurrra

SweetEars said:


> _I just got  the DIY EMX500 and have been using it for a few days. Here is a initial review_
> Should u buy this over the monks? Yes if u are interested in smooth but clean sound with better details.



My fav budget earbuds, better than Monk+ and Vido for me. Best earbuds under 10$ I think.


----------



## Redcarmoose

vladstef said:


> I actually had the same problem with Vidos and Fengru EMX500, where they would randomly crackle on one side or both when pushed. In my case, this wasn't distortion but inaccurate membrane position, that is, membranes of these earbuds are not glued to the rest of the driver and they are held all around the edge by pressure that casings provide. In my case, if I were to press on them, very hard towards my head, creating additional pressure on the edge of the membrane as a result, crackling disappeared completely. With Vidos, problem went away when I took them apart and put them back together (somehow, on its own, I guess they were not properly assembled, easiest fix ever though). With EMX, it didn't get fixed on its own after reassembling them. I think the best option would be to extend the edge of the rear casing a little so that it pushes on driver more when you connect the front case to it, for now I am thinking of gluing a piece of paper and cutting the paper nicely to the round plastic. (unfortunately, I managed to disconnect one of the cables and have no access to soldering iron at the moment so I can't say exactly if this works)



Exactly, I actually have one pair of $7 Cubu "s" earbuds that when the driver cracks, I slam it against a wall or poll and the crackle goes away! 

Done it three times in six months.


----------



## knudsen

KookaBurrra said:


> My fav budget earbuds, better than Monk+ and Vido for me. Best earbuds under 10$ I think.


Which do you like better at a higher price?


----------



## KookaBurrra

knudsen said:


> Which do you like better at a higher price?



Yinman 150
TY Hi-Z HP650


----------



## ricesteam

My initial impression of TY 150s (silver plug) with thick foams. I'm listening with a Schiit Mimby/Project Polaris Amp. 

The bass is impressive. It's pretty clean. It's fast and has excellent impact that reminds me of Zen 1.0.

However, overall the earbuds is bright. The brightest from my collection. I can't listen too long without getting fatigued. Also, the mid is a bit recessed. It's still under 50h, but I really have a hard time believing burn-in.


----------



## chinmie

ricesteam said:


> My initial impression of TY 150s (silver plug) with thick foams. I'm listening with a Schiit Mimby/Project Polaris Amp.
> 
> The bass is impressive. It's pretty clean. It's fast and has excellent impact that reminds me of Zen 1.0.
> 
> However, overall the earbuds is bright. The brightest from my collection. I can't listen too long without getting fatigued. Also, the mid is a bit recessed. It's still under 50h, but I really have a hard time believing burn-in.



what foams are you using with them?


----------



## Saoshyant

Trying out a new "budget" earbud, at least new to me from Initiate Audio in Indonesia.  I only refer to it as "budget" due to the fact that the seller miss-estimated the shipping cost, so had to pay the $12 Western Union fee twice, bringing the total to $64.  This was after I decided to pay a little extra on the second payment to more than cover the missing, so $45 USD or so should be about the correct amount after fees and shipping to the US.

The sound is slightly V shaped, but nothing that should cause any issue for those that dislike V shaped sigs.  I'm a horrible judge of treble, but there's certainly that sparkle that should be there, so I get the feeling these are a bit heavy on the treble, so maybe closer to a backwards L shape.  Anyone looking for bass, use some EQ and they respond quite well to it, bringing out the sub-bass to where it should be.  It uses THE standard shell, so you already know how it'll fit.  Disregarding shipping & WU fee it's a sub-20USD earbud, and in that range it's impressive for my tastes.  I just got it yesterday, so still learning it, and haven't done any comparisons.  As it's still early on with no burn in save a few hours of listening so far, all I'll say is it handles orchestral music like Nobuo Uematsu's Distant Worlds album quite nicely, and with EQ does quite well with Childish Gambino (which is by no means my normal type of music, but may as well expand my horizons.)  For those that have tried it and is a similar cost, I suspect this'll suit me better than the Elibuds Sabia V4.

The one flaw, a physical one, is when putting the cover on it wasn't seated properly on one side, so it's angled a little bit, but I hear no imbalance in the sound, nor feel any discomfort.  It appears to use the same cable as the Sawarna which can be seen at Rholupat, a cable that looks awfully like the one used by Auglamour RX-1, but not quite the same.


----------



## ricesteam

chinmie said:


> what foams are you using with them?



The thick non-donuts foams that came with it. I was hoping they would dampen the treble at bit. But still a little bright.


----------



## noknok23

ricesteam said:


> The thick non-donuts foams that came with it. I was hoping they would dampen the treble at bit. But still a little bright.


After some time and really hard burn jn. I think it sound amazing and make music sounds very lively. Doesn't work well with some modern production that already has aggressive loud war mastering with heavy compression, then it become too much and all the flaws became obvious. Treble for me gets better after 100hr+ burnin and is fine with 90% of my library but still is annoying with some heavy treble tracks also some old pop was on the edge of sibilance. Though on some records it sound so amazing, better than TOTL three times the price, I rediscovered some of my music  collection with these.. But yeah can be fatiguing and this pumped up sound signature doesn't fit everything neither everyone tastes... I like old analog music with these the most. And female voices.

Tyler the creator flower boy is good example of failure for these. Recessed vocals, overwhelming bass, sharp treble... A disaster.

Brian Eno after the heat, on the other side. Omg I never enjoyed this record as much before. The very tame  production is slightly more energetic, just right.


----------



## Dark Helmet

slappypete said:


> It seems there has been a real graphene earphone membrane made in a lab, check out this link, but you are right, this membrane would have to be super thin if it was a single layer of graphene. Maybe they sprinkled some graphite on the membrane and dubbed it a graphene driver lol.


All I know is that it sounds awesome!


----------



## slappypete

Dark Helmet said:


> All I know is that it sounds awesome!



Absolutely, and that is all that matters


----------



## doggiemom

ricesteam said:


> My initial impression of TY 150s (silver plug) with thick foams. I'm listening with a Schiit Mimby/Project Polaris Amp.
> 
> The bass is impressive. It's pretty clean. It's fast and has excellent impact that reminds me of Zen 1.0.
> 
> However, overall the earbuds is bright. The brightest from my collection. I can't listen too long without getting fatigued. Also, the mid is a bit recessed. It's still under 50h, but I really have a hard time believing burn-in.


I received these a couple days ago and I agree about the brightness.  They are too bright for me.  I felt the same way about the TY 32s......... TY seems to have a lot of fans here, but their tuning just isn't for me.


----------



## siderak

ctaxxxx said:


> Was actually listening to them some more last night. They seem too mid-forward, almost to a fault... I'm not too crazy about them from the neutral AMP1 module, but they sound much better through the warmer AMP2. I think their signature makes them heavily source dependent.



I wonder how different the balanced sound is to the non balanced. 
Do you think the balanced version could make the sound more clinical?
I have the silver and black non balanced versions and they're very very close if not the same.
I prefer a detailed and clear neutral sig so these are right up my alley. They are not for big bass.
I do prefer them to my CAX CF2's for that neutral clarity but I enjoy having both.


----------



## TheoS53 (Aug 11, 2017)

ricesteam said:


> My initial impression of TY 150s (silver plug) with thick foams. I'm listening with a Schiit Mimby/Project Polaris Amp.
> 
> The bass is impressive. It's pretty clean. It's fast and has excellent impact that reminds me of Zen 1.0.
> 
> However, overall the earbuds is bright. The brightest from my collection. I can't listen too long without getting fatigued. Also, the mid is a bit recessed. It's still under 50h, but I really have a hard time believing burn-in.





doggiemom said:


> I received these a couple days ago and I agree about the brightness.  They are too bright for me.  I felt the same way about the TY 32s......... TY seems to have a lot of fans here, but their tuning just isn't for me.



You guys aren't alone. But be careful about so blatantly saying that they 150s is bright....as the guy who made/designed the 150s created this very public post:

"Hear the warm voice feel very comfortable, hear the bright voice feel harsh, if you are so then your ears have been damaged."

Basically, if you think the 150s is bright, your ears are apparently broken LOL.


Anyways, I too was underwhelmed by the 150s, so much so that I had pretty much considered them to be a throw-away. But in retrospect I'm actually really glad they weren't great, as that forced me to do a bit of a DIY.

So, If you want to make the 150s far more enjoyable, and you're feeling a little ambitious, I did a fairly simple mod which honestly turned these into something I enjoy listening to on a daily basis (as opposed to how fatiguing they felt before).

This will require you to open the buds up, and firstly remove the tuning foam which blocks the venting holes on the shell (there's no foam or cotton on the back of the driver). Now, the next part I've only tested with a Hiegi donut foam, but of course you could try it with one of the included donut foams too (but I can't guarantee the same results)
What I did was to cut a little wedge out of the foam, which will give you access to cut along the elastic centre-line (in order to have 2 roughly equal pieces to use). Then you'll need to test fit the foam behind the driver, and cut just enough foam away from each piece so that the end pieces meet neatly, but don't overlap one another. Tuck the foam in, but don't bother with gluing it in.

I don't think this is the ultimate mod for these buds, but it certainly makes them more enjoyable. Using them with my Shanling M2s + Fiio A3, with bass boost turned on (buds always need a little extra help) the 150s now feels pretty well-balanced. The next step would be to experiment with tuning foam and cotton to really refine the signature.


----------



## doggiemom

Was I just told in broken English that my ears are broken?    In fairness, I do think my ears are sensitive to treble.  Or maybe it is my brain that is broken, since lots of people seem to love TY products.

Thanks for the mod, sounds like it is worth a try.


----------



## TheoS53

doggiemom said:


> Was I just told in broken English that my ears are broken?    In fairness, I do think my ears are sensitive to treble.  Or maybe it is my brain that is broken, since lots of people seem to love TY products.
> 
> Thanks for the mod, sounds like it is worth a try.



All good, if you do the mod, please report back. Would be interesting to see if it had helped anyone else.


----------



## ricesteam

TheoS53 said:


> You guys aren't alone. But be careful about so blatantly saying that they 150s is bright....as the guy who made/designed the 150s created this very public post:
> 
> "Hear the warm voice feel very comfortable, hear the bright voice feel harsh, if you are so then your ears have been damaged."
> 
> ...



Yea, I read his post. I don't think it's good idea to go around accusing your customers of their broken ears LOL. For all we know, his ears could be "broken" from the 6+ months of R&D and his tuning is off.


----------



## TheoS53 (Aug 11, 2017)

ricesteam said:


> Yea, I read his post. I don't think it's good idea to go around accusing your customers of their broken ears LOL. For all we know, his ears could be "broken" from the 6+ months of R&D and his tuning is off.




I think a lot of it is also how people who have a lot of experience with buds have become accustomed to a brighter signature...so much so that to them a bright signature sounds neutral to them. But if you take something as neutral as a reference monitor (ProPhile 8, for example), and compare them, you quickly see just how bright these buds can be (with regards to something which actually IS neutral).


----------



## luckyeights

Hey guys can anyone tell me how the shozy stardust sounds compared to say the qian 39?   I have the ty650 and rose masya as well but I kind of prefer the qian 39.  Im wondering if the stardust will have the sound signature I like.  I dont like the ty650 or masya as they both sound a little on the thin side.  Voices dont sound natural or full to me which is why i prefer the qian 39 it sounds more natural to me.  I would really appreciate your thoughts on this.  Thank you.


----------



## Dark Helmet

luckyeights said:


> Hey guys can anyone tell me how the shozy stardust sounds compared to say the qian 39?   I have the ty650 and rose masya as well but I kind of prefer the qian 39.  Im wondering if the stardust will have the sound signature I like.  I dont like the ty650 or masya as they both sound a little on the thin side.  Voices dont sound natural or full to me which is why i prefer the qian 39 it sounds more natural to me.  I would really appreciate your thoughts on this.  Thank you.


Are you using the stock cable with the Masya? Mine sounds fantastic, though I did think it sounded thin at first, but after some burn in it has really filled out. I did burn it in with very dynamic and bass heavy music.


----------



## prone2phone

Got today Seahf 64. They are power hungry, have slam in the bass and A LOT of energy in the guitars. After them put yincrow x6 and that seemed like silk.


----------



## Frederick Wang (Aug 12, 2017)

Blur 魔音(magic sound) arrived in a nice leather pouch. Burning in progress.


----------



## doggiemom

TheoS53 said:


> I think a lot of it is also how people who have a lot of experience with buds have become accustomed to a brighter signature...so much so that to them a bright signature sounds neutral to them. But if you take something as neutral as a reference monitor (ProPhile 8, for example), and compare them, you quickly see just how bright these buds can be (with regards to something which actually IS neutral).


That is a good point.  I really only listen to buds at work (which is a distracting environment) or at home when I'm working in the yard or doing something else.  90% of listening with my full attention is done with the Utopias, so those have become the reference for my brain/ears.  The Utopias are crisp on the treble, but def not bright like the two TY products I've tried.


----------



## TheoS53

doggiemom said:


> That is a good point.  I really only listen to buds at work (which is a distracting environment) or at home when I'm working in the yard or doing something else.  90% of listening with my full attention is done with the Utopias, so those have become the reference for my brain/ears.  The Utopias are crisp on the treble, but def not bright like the two TY products I've tried.



Another issue, I think, is that (for whatever reason) people tend to confuse certain treble peaks with clarity and detail. No speaker can be more detailed or have greater clarity than what the music originally contains. When things start sounding overly bright and unnatural, that's not some new magical layer of detail.


----------



## ricesteam

TheoS53 said:


> I think a lot of it is also how people who have a lot of experience with buds have become accustomed to a brighter signature...so much so that to them a bright signature sounds neutral to them. But if you take something as neutral as a reference monitor (ProPhile 8, for example), and compare them, you quickly see just how bright these buds can be (with regards to something which actually IS neutral).



I really love the bass on the 150s, but because of the overall brightness, I can't listen to them for too long without getting fatigued.


----------



## Saoshyant

Should I just buy someone's used 150S?  I have zero treble sensitivity and yay bass.


----------



## SweetEars

*Emx 500 vs Monks Ve +*

Equipment and sources : laptop , iPhone , flacs, YouTube and x264 movies

I will say the best part of these earbuds are the sparkle and the sub bass with better detail and clarity compared to the monk.The mids are just about right without too much or too little but with more translucency . The monk rather has a toned harsh flat treble lacking detail and lacks sub bass but with a weighty forward mid (if high quality source) . the monks ve have this rather hard hitting rattling sound signature lacking transparency while theemx500 is articulating highs, lows , better transparent mids and the acoustics ( more reverb) are better. The monks VE lack any sort of reverb

As with emx500 detail is better in the upper and lower. Both have the same soundstage. But the emx500 has better depth in sound stage in terms of airiness.

Unlike the monks , the emx500 isn’t fussy about the source and hardware.The only area were the monks VE win is attack probably because of the emphasized mids ., example: The buildup of sound when an instrument is bowed, blown, struck, or plucked, rattling sound of space shuttle ect , but EMX is able to display vocals better than the monks VE which have a hollow vocals . The vocals are consistent and slightly translucent in the EMX500 and having some depth or present like a "cloud or bubble" .

Overall words to describe these earbuds : sparkling cold, crystallized like icy feeling but crisp detailed and acoustic with deep sub low. Slightly analytical at times at stock EQ.It is possible to change the sound feel by tweaking Eq. They respond well.


----------



## noknok23

Saoshyant said:


> Should I just buy someone's used 150S?  I have zero treble sensitivity and yay bass.



Still trying to picture the 150s as fairly as possible. I'd say they are tuned like very nice basement night club speakers. big bass, sharp clear highs. Can put a smile on your face all night if in the mood. Otherwise can be painful haha.


----------



## cocolinho

Saoshyant said:


> Should I just buy someone's used 150S?  I have zero treble sensitivity and yay bass.


I can sell you mine. Depends where you are located


----------



## Saoshyant

cocolinho said:


> I can sell you mine. Depends where you are located



Already had an offer in Canada which isn't too bad as I'm in the US, and took it.  Here's hoping I'm one of those that like it, but I do tend to love bassy earbuds


----------



## knudsen

cocolinho said:


> I can sell you mine. Depends where you are located


How do you find the 150s vs the emx500? I expect you find them brighter? I had the 150s in the basket on ali, ready to push buy and just wanted to check one last time if new reviews had come up... and they sure had Now I'm quite afraid of that brightness. Thanks a lot for any input


----------



## listen4joy

well, there is a lot of names but the rankings is gone , i assumed it because many earbuds are not available in the market. i hope there will be new rankings that we could understand what is the top earbuds , of course with the recent new things that exist in the market.


----------



## noknok23

listen4joy said:


> well, there is a lot of names but the rankings is gone , i assumed it because many earbuds are not available in the market. i hope there will be new rankings that we could understand what is the top earbuds , of course with the recent new things that exist in the market.


this list by @ctaxxxx  is pretty good: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H6O196NajUQSwVgGT5F69c9sZMMdjq3ahZS7UqaZHe4/edit


----------



## doggiemom (Aug 13, 2017)

TheoS53 said:


> I don't think this is the ultimate mod for these buds, but it certainly makes them more enjoyable. Using them with my Shanling M2s + Fiio A3, with bass boost turned on (buds always need a little extra help) the 150s now feels pretty well-balanced. The next step would be to experiment with tuning foam and cotton to really refine the signature.


I wasn't feeling ambitious enough to open up the shells. So tried some Blu-tack on the outside of the shells.  Also switched to Heigi full foams.  The result is that some of the sharpness is cut a bit, so that these are bright but not piercing.  The mids to seem a bit more recessed with the Blu-tack though.

These are now listenable, but I'm still not thrilled.  My job at work involves tinkering, so I don't want to tinker when I get home...... much prefer something enjoyable out of the box.


----------



## TheoS53

doggiemom said:


> I wasn't feeling ambitious enough to open up the shells. So tried some Blu-tack on the outside of the shells.  Also switched to Heigi full foams.  The result is that some of the sharpness is cut a bit, so that these are bright but not piercing.  The mids to seem a bit more recessed with the Blu-tack though.
> 
> These are now listenable, but I'm still not thrilled.  My job at work involves tinkering, so I don't want to tinker when I get home...... much prefer something enjoyable out of the box.



This is very interesting, and just goes to show how powerful the placebo effect is. Let me explain:

For one, by using blutack you would be completely blocking those vent holes, which I would expect (and have measured) to create an increase at around the 2kHz frequency.

However, the most interesting thing about your example is where you have placed that blutack. That actually isn't a vent, and so it shouldn't make any difference at all. The MX500 shell only has 7 venting holes, the one where the cable goes in, and the other 6 are on the left and right-hand sides of the shell. In stock form the latter 6 are blocked (or rather restricted) by a horseshoe tuning foam.


----------



## ballog

doggiemom said:


> Was I just told in broken English that my ears are broken?    In fairness, I do think my ears are sensitive to treble.  Or maybe it is my brain that is broken, since lots of people seem to love TY products.
> 
> Thanks for the mod, sounds like it is worth a try.


Sadly some chinese audio manufacturers don't seem aware of audio fatigue. I am no expert but i guess this particularly arise from treble frequencies. From having been a Shure user as from 2005 (starting with E2C, SE310 and finally SE215) I do know that they tune their iem with slight treble recess to prevent fatigue.


----------



## ballog

ricesteam said:


> Yea, I read his post. I don't think it's good idea to go around accusing your customers of their broken ears LOL. For all we know, his ears could be "broken" from the 6+ months of R&D and his tuning is off.


A little surprising from Anyang Su from TY. I've exchanged messages with him in the past. He seemed quite humble and polite. I guess at some point all these vendors will act the same (e.g. Lee from VE). Definitely not cool!


----------



## redkingjoe

Hi guys,

Please help this newbie. In no ways can I read these 1473 pages. Can someone please give me a heads up? 

I had been using Sony e484 for many years. I can't find them anymore. What are the best earbuds that can beat it? 

I don't know the budget. I need good sound quality and comfortable to wear!

Thanks.


----------



## PT7673

I'm also in the hype train of 150S and very disappointed with the earbud itself and it's creater.

When he announce this earbud he sound so good, a lot of research blah blah... but now when many poeple don't see it so good. He came out with a lot of escutes, using bad source, choosing wrong plug and lastly turn and attack those customers.

I'll not buy his product again.


----------



## KookaBurrra

PT7673 said:


> When he announce this earbud he sound so good, a lot of research blah blah... but now when many poeple don't see it so good. He came out with a lot of escutes, using bad source, choosing wrong plug and lastly turn and attack those customers.



Bad communication, it is clear.


----------



## BoomBap08

Hi, guys!

Just wanna ask if there's anyone in here who have tried the MrZ Tomahawk Music Maker, Nicehck DIY PK2, and the Auglamour RX1? How does the Tomahawk compare against those pk2 and the rx1, especially in the mids and subbass department?


----------



## ballog (Aug 14, 2017)

BoomBap08 said:


> Hi, guys!
> 
> Just wanna ask if there's anyone in here who have tried the MrZ Tomahawk Music Maker, Nicehck DIY PK2, and the Auglamour RX1? How does the Tomahawk compare against those pk2 and the rx1, especially in the mids and subbass department?



@BoomBap08 I bought the Tomahawk last year and it has since been sitting in a drawer. Personally it has been a big let down for me since it has been my priciest earbud to date. I find the Tomahawk too V-shaped and too harsh (especially the treble). For my taste I find the DIY PK2 more appealling - non-fatiguing for long listening sessions, nice vocals - it might lack extension for some. The Auglamour RX1 might be the middle ground with better mids than the Tomahawk bud less details though. In subbass department for me it would be Tomahawk>RX1>DIY PK2 (and same for soundstage). One more thing is that I find the Tomahawk quite uncomfortable and painfull (especially due to the earbud metal cable relief). I have since customized my Tomahawk by replacing the cable relief with a flexible plastic one and find it much more comfortable. I'm not so good at describing sound quality though. So I hope others would chime in.


----------



## ballog (Aug 14, 2017)

KookaBurrra said:


> Bad communication, it is clear.


Too much confidence maybe - resulting in major dissapointment which could have lead to this outburst . So between the foul-mouthed Lee and the customer deprecating Anyang Su its like 'between the devil and the deep blue sea'


----------



## BoomBap08 (Aug 14, 2017)

oh, big thanks for this! I have the pk2 and found the subbass of the rx1 insufficient for rnb and reggae tracks that's why I settled for the former. Plus, I found the mids of the pk2 to be more resolving than that of the rx1.

Anyway, so for you, the nicehck diy pk2 has more forward mids than the tomahawk?


----------



## ballog

BoomBap08 said:


> oh, big thanks for this! I have the pk2 and found the subbass of the rx1 insufficient for rnb and reggae tracks that's why I settled for the former. Plus, I found the mids of the pk2 to be more resolving than that of the rx1.
> 
> Anyway, so for you, the nicehck diy pk2 has more forward mids than the tomahawk?


You might be right about the DIY PK2 having better subbass than RX1. I might have felt the contrary since i have not listened to the RX1 for quite a while (plus I used to listen to it with ViperAudio on my phone). I do confirm that I personally find that the PK2 has smoother and better mids than the Tomahawk. The Tomahawk is definitely better for modern music like EDM (I have enjoyed listening to Massive Attack's 2016 EP with them). The DIY PK2 is my favorite earbud for classic vocal jazz albums (especially female vocalist like Sarah Vaughan, Ella Fitzgerald's 50s and 60's albums).


----------



## alvinlim2010

I have the Tomahawk and RX1, and the original Yuin PK2. And I would attest to the point that Tomahawk is sitting in my drawer for a long time too. Not a very enjoyable listen. As for RX1, it's good with vocals but I realised the sound stage to be bit narrow, with imaging emphasized on the top (hard to describe, it's like the music coming from the top of my head). My Yuin, after near 6 years is still a nice smooth enjoyable listen.


----------



## ballog

alvinlim2010 said:


> I have the Tomahawk and RX1, and the original Yuin PK2. And I would attest to the point that Tomahawk is sitting in my drawer for a long time too. Not a very enjoyable listen. As for RX1, it's good with vocals but I realised the sound stage to be bit narrow, with imaging emphasized on the top (hard to describe, it's like the music coming from the top of my head). My Yuin, after near 6 years is still a nice smooth enjoyable listen.


In fact since my Tomahawk was lying unused, a few weeks back I decided tinkering with it. I've tried mounting the drivers in different types of shells (MX500, Philips SHE3800, etc) and cables. But alas the sound has remained harsh. I think one last resort i will experiment with dampening materials.


----------



## BoomBap08

thank you, guys, really! looks like I'm going to hold on to my diy pk2 and not mind the tomahawk at all.

one last thing though, have any of you, guys, had a chance to try the version 3 of the nicehck diy pk2? the seller told me that the ver.3 has a crystal copper cable hence the price increase while the version 2 has an spc one. just curious if the crystal copper version is better, sound wise, than the spc.


----------



## kvad

BoomBap08 said:


> Hi, guys!
> 
> Just wanna ask if there's anyone in here who have tried the MrZ Tomahawk Music Maker, Nicehck DIY PK2, and the Auglamour RX1? How does the Tomahawk compare against those pk2 and the rx1, especially in the mids and subbass department?



In the past the Tomahawk has been a bit polarising - and it seems it still is : )
For me though it's still one of my most enjoyable out-and-about buds, and despite the overload of earbuds I have, it still gets used frequently.
I know some find the highs a bit harsh, but I think that's more down to how sensitive you are to those frequencies than a good/bad verdict.
Found the PK2 enjoyable as well, but I suppose for me it didn't have quiet the same fun-factor (do love the shell though).
The RX1 just didn't have enough low-end for me, without managing to pull off the subtleties of something like the Zen 2.0.


----------



## Kelzo

Anyone here has any recommendation for an earbud with a wide soundstage. One of the few earbuds that I've tried with a good one is the TY-150 but it costed me 20 USD. I prefer something below 10USD. 

Thanks!


----------



## knudsen

Kelzo said:


> Anyone here has any recommendation for an earbud with a wide soundstage. One of the few earbuds that I've tried with a good one is the TY-150 but it costed me 20 USD. I prefer something below 10USD.
> 
> Thanks!


emx500 at 10$


----------



## ricesteam

Has anyone tried the new EMX500 by NiceHCK and Small Five? I wonder if they sound the same as Woo/Fengru EMX500.

NiceHCK: https://goo.gl/GyYMUe
SmallFive: https://goo.gl/Cm7CkK


----------



## snip3r77 (Aug 14, 2017)

Can anyone pls recommend something that is tried and tested with the following sound sig

Powered by iPhone
Balanced sound towards the fun side
Large soundstage with minimal sibilance

Thanks


----------



## doggiemom

TheoS53 said:


> This is very interesting, and just goes to show how powerful the placebo effect is. Let me explain:
> 
> For one, by using blutack you would be completely blocking those vent holes, which I would expect (and have measured) to create an increase at around the 2kHz frequency.
> 
> However, the most interesting thing about your example is where you have placed that blutack. That actually isn't a vent, and so it shouldn't make any difference at all. The MX500 shell only has 7 venting holes, the one where the cable goes in, and the other 6 are on the left and right-hand sides of the shell. In stock form the latter 6 are blocked (or rather restricted) by a horseshoe tuning foam.


Oh snap!    The funny thing is that initially I put Blu-tack on the left and right vents of each shell, leaving the top open, and didn't like it much....... sounded too muffled.  So ended up putting it on the top.  I do think the thicker foams made a small difference and cut a bit of the sharpness.  That being said, I still don't like these, so they are going in the earbud museum.


----------



## ctaxxxx (Aug 15, 2017)

Finished my Blur 魔音(2.5mm version) impressions. I have to say, these really grew on me. If Wong managed to nail the sound I get with the Edimun thick foams, these would have knocked down the CampFred 2 from #2.



ctaxxxx said:


> Blur 魔音 (2.5mm version)
> 
> *AMP1:* TOTL earbud with an analytical, mid-focused signature. Mids can sometimes overpower the rest the frequencies depending on the source. Despite the clinical nature of the mids, vocals still manage to be perfectly smooth. Bass is light in quantity, but extends very deep. It’s subtle, but with a little boost (via thicker foams or EQ), it easily rivals CAX bass. Treble is neutral, yet very clear and detailed. Everything sounds clean and accurate altogether.
> 
> ...




Also updated my Top 5 to include the Vido. No longer keeping buds that don't make this list, so I'm currently selling the Shozy BK, Moondrop Liebesleid, and other budget buds.


----------



## Makahl

An earbud has no name:











13.5mm drivers? Wow, it's smaller than the RX-1! Even If they don't sound good the Moondroop design is always lovely.


----------



## RyanM

ctaxxxx said:


> Finished my Blur 魔音(2.5mm version) impressions. I have to say, these really grew on me. If Wong managed to nail the sound I get with the Edimun thick foams, these would have knocked down the CampFred 2 from #2.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice impressions. I absolutely adore my Blur, but I have a regular 3.5mm connector on mine. I did find that the driver needed about 30 hours or burn-in for the mid bass to start to really appear. Moreover, I've learned to enjoy them best with a regular foam and donut over-top of it. The term clinical is probably pretty accurate in your description, however, and kind of bizarrely, there's something very musical about this incredibly clear sound, although it does lean towards analytical. Somehow, it manages a bit of warmth as well. It is a chameleon, and tends to sound best to me out of a tube amp now although at first, I preferred it from solid state moreso. Significant brain burn-in was required for me to adapt to the new presentation of songs I thought I was very familiar with. Turns out, there was much I was missing!


----------



## endia (Aug 15, 2017)

ctaxxxx said:


> Also updated my Top 5 to include the Vido.


may i suggest cotton mod for vido to you?
i did apply (it was @ozkan  who posted this mod first, i guess) and surprised a lot,
it become a very balanced and much more detailed bud.. i prefer it over diy pk2 but ymmv as always..


----------



## Blueshound24

golov17 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/FBNfAbUF



Sorry for the reply to an old post, but does anyone know if the Vido comes with an angled plug or are they all straight?
TIA


----------



## redkingjoe

endia said:


> may i suggest cotton mod for vido to you?
> i did apply (it was @ozkan  who posted this mod first, i guess) and surprised a lot,
> it become a very balanced and much more detailed bud.. i prefer it over diy pk2 but ymmv as always..


If you are adventurous enough, try 
1 silk
2 glass fiber 
3 wool

I tried those on my speakers...all these improved over cotton...silk is best


----------



## redkingjoe

Nameless is a super hero in chinese manga.. I watch that manga 20+ years ago...nameless beats most super hero around. 

Hope the nameless earbud will beat others as well.

And I'm expecting the next model from them is Brainless.





Makahl said:


> An earbud has no name:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## wskl

Blueshound24 said:


> Sorry for the reply to an old post, but does anyone know if the Vido comes with an angled plug or are they all straight?
> TIA



They come with straight plug, also in case you don't know, the non-mic version has a J-cable.


----------



## Blueshound24

wskl said:


> They come with straight plug, also in case you don't know, the non-mic version has a J-cable.



Thanks.
Darn, I hate the straight plug, it sticks out too far out of my phone and I'm always afraid it's gonna get bent or break when it's in my pocket. Also, not a fan of the J-cable.


----------



## MLTKSHHBT

ctaxxxx said:


> Finished my Blur 魔音(2.5mm version) impressions. I have to say, these really grew on me. If Wong managed to nail the sound I get with the Edimun thick foams, these would have knocked down the CampFred 2 from #2.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Can you tell us a little more about the Shozy BK, and the comparison with the blur?
I just received my blur silver yesterday, it is my first earbuds after years in iems.
Initial impression is quite positive, but I need to adjust to the different feeling offered by the earbuds compared with the iem.
A few tracks of listening with my modded dx90 on balanced through pb3 makes me think of my Super 6 Audio 6ba iem.
Need more time to have better impression of it.


----------



## rahmish

Blueshound24 said:


> Thanks.
> Darn, I hate the straight plug, it sticks out too far out of my phone and I'm always afraid it's gonna get bent or break when it's in my pocket. Also, not a fan of the J-cable.


You can recable it, can improve sound as well


----------



## endia

redkingjoe said:


> If you are adventurous enough, try
> 1 silk
> 2 glass fiber
> 3 wool
> ...



what is the form of silk, any pictures?
this may be an excellent material but it's very hard to find, i guess..


----------



## Blueshound24

rahmish said:


> You can recable it, can improve sound as well



Yes, I could. To learn how to re-cable is one of the things to do on my bucket list


----------



## redkingjoe

endia said:


> what is the form of silk, any pictures?
> this may be an excellent material but it's very hard to find, i guess..



There's a lot of great silk application...take a look at the pic...I bought a few boxes of silk from "acoustic revive" many years ago to put inside my diy speakers!

Audiophile plays with silk in many ways...Just put them near to the dac, amp, power cord, interconnect, etc. look at the pic, sound will change for better


----------



## endia

i have some silk tubes for my diy cables but didn't know this kind of form and applications before, thanks a lot..


----------



## redkingjoe

endia said:


> i have some silk tubes for my diy cables but didn't know this kind of form and applications before, thanks a lot..



Welcome.

Please try silk.

Also, try wool. 

To optimise sound acoustics, Try mix wool with silk too. Seriously, acoustic in the earphone is too important to overlook. And you are real smart to point it out to us. 

Have you tried putting silk tubes on the cable of your ear buds? 

 And enjoy.


----------



## endia

redkingjoe said:


> Welcome.
> 
> Please try silk.
> 
> ...



will try definetely..
i didn't try silk tubes on earbud cables but in my pure silver digital interconnect, i prefer it over dh labs d-75..
but that is a good idea, i should order some silk tubing for diy earbud cables..


----------



## chaiyuta

Those silk looks interesting.


----------



## redkingjoe (Aug 16, 2017)

chaiyuta said:


> Those silk looks interesting.



Yeh. Silk is good friend of music.  

 Playing with tweaks add a lot of funs and a new dimension to audio experience.

We can optimise the whole setting before changing headphones.


----------



## chaiyuta

@redkingjoe : Where can I buy acoustic revive silk? English or Japanese website are both ok for me.


----------



## redkingjoe

chaiyuta said:


> @redkingjoe : Where can I buy acoustic revive silk? English or Japanese website are both ok for me.


You know japeness


----------



## chaiyuta

@redkingjoe : According to the red-color sentences stated that "currently this product cannot buy" in other words "out of stock or out of production".


----------



## CharlesRievone

Guys, I think the above topics are more appropriate on this thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/


----------



## snip3r77

I just bought a Vido ( my first earbud ) coming from ZS5, Tennmak Pro and Xiami HD Pro.


----------



## ClieOS

CharlesRievone said:


> Guys, I think the above topics are more appropriate on this thread:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/



Also, please avoid posting overly large picture. It really clogs up the page.


----------



## endia

CharlesRievone said:


> Guys, I think the above topics are more appropriate on this thread:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/





ClieOS said:


> Also, please avoid posting overly large picture. It really clogs up the page.



it's all started with my cotton mod post, my apologies..


----------



## ctaxxxx

MLTKSHHBT said:


> Can you tell us a little more about the Shozy BK, and the comparison with the blur?
> I just received my blur silver yesterday, it is my first earbuds after years in iems.
> Initial impression is quite positive, but I need to adjust to the different feeling offered by the earbuds compared with the iem.
> A few tracks of listening with my modded dx90 on balanced through pb3 makes me think of my Super 6 Audio 6ba iem.
> Need more time to have better impression of it.



You can view all my impressions in my signature. They're both analytical, but in regards to different frequencies.



ClieOS said:


> Also, please avoid posting overly large picture. It really clogs up the page.



Didn't Head-Fi use to shrink the images posted on the forum? They need to bring that back.


----------



## golov17

ctaxxxx said:


> Didn't Head-Fi use to shrink the images posted on the forum? They need to bring that back.


----------



## ctaxxxx

golov17 said:


>



Ohhh. I've always used the insert image button and it doesn't give that option. I'll keep that in mind for future reference.


----------



## redkingjoe

ctaxxxx said:


> Didn't Head-Fi use to shrink the images posted on the forum? They need to bring that back.



It's difficult for newbie to pick options.


----------



## redkingjoe

chaiyuta said:


> @redkingjoe : According to the red-color sentences stated that "currently this product cannot buy" in other words "out of stock or out of production".


I bought them in local store many years ago.
Try try email all those authorised dealers or go to their web to ask.


----------



## redkingjoe (Aug 16, 2017)

MLTKSHHBT said:


> Can you tell us a little more about the Shozy BK, and the comparison with the blur?
> I just received my blur silver yesterday, it is my first earbuds after years in iems.
> Initial impression is quite positive, but I need to adjust to the different feeling offered by the earbuds compared with the iem.
> A few tracks of listening with my modded dx90 on balanced through pb3 makes me think of my Super 6 Audio 6ba iem.
> Need more time to have better impression of it.



I'm also interested in Shozy bk too. Thinking about buying too.

It seems that they use superior materials like mono-crystal cable, oyaide plugs, Japan made speakers. These materials are usually used in extremely expensive IEM. For example, these materials are of higher grade than those that are used from Campfire audio IEM. The quality of shure SE 6xx's cable can't come close to Shozy. When I look at The Dita answer uses great cable, but when they upgrade Dita answer to Dita Truth, they charge an additional hefty us300. These IEM are priced 550-1000!

It seems to me Shozy bk is best value for 'materials'. The $169 shipped is a steal. Say, if I bought it and didn't like it, I can use the cable to upgrade other "high end" IEM.

Beside the excellent review from @ctaxxxx , I have read something here that Bk was a champion:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-802#post-12939143


----------



## ctaxxxx

redkingjoe said:


> I'm also interested in Shozy bk too. Thinking about buying too.
> 
> It seems that they use superior materials like mono-crystal cable, oyaide plugs, Japan made speakers. These materials are usually used in extremely expensive IEM. For example, these materials are of higher grade than those that are used from Campfire audio IEM. The quality of shure SE 6xx's cable can't come close to Shozy. When I look at The Dita answer uses great cable, but when they upgrade Dita answer to Dita Truth, they charge an additional hefty us300. These IEM are priced 550-1000!
> 
> ...



If you're interested in just the cable, they sell a mmcx version - LINK

That comment is from a year ago, but the Shozy BK does hold up well. I'm still debating whether I should have kept it in my top 5, instead of QFred, but I like to keep the ranking varied and the QFred's are the only warm buds on there now. I definitely recommend the Shozy's though as a perfect entry into TOTL buds. They're still the most comfortable too!


----------



## Frederick Wang

40 hours burning time for Blur 魔音 and I'm astounded. It gave me an almost unreal feeling of musical presence. 
Next stop would be find some proper foams for them.


----------



## Trippin

Looking at buds around the 200 dollar mark. I prefer a warmer sig so I'm not getting the shozy bk. The campfred 2 seems promising but haven't seen any comprehensive reviews others than ctaxxx's. Does anyone have any imppression/links to review?


----------



## vladstef

For some time now I though that Vido and EMX500 are a step up from Auglamour RX-1. Somehow, I managed to position RX so well in my ears that they became resolution beasts with impressive overall sound quality and even better bass than these 2 (even when I tried this position with mx style shell). They retained everything good they had and improved massively overall. They literally produce better mid range than my Meze 99 Classics...
For me, the trick was to loop the cables over ears plus turn the drivers not towards my head but towards the front of me, putting the driver in my ear sideways as a result. I don't quite get the magic that happened but it turned average earbuds into beasts. My ear canal is very standard, angled IEMs are usually exactly perfect for me. This way, diver faces ear tragus (had to google to find out the name of it), also, I am using Auglamour full foams.
Someone please try this, it is so good that I need someone to confirm that I am not in a dream. . .


----------



## RyanM

vladstef said:


> For some time now I though that Vido and EMX500 are a step up from Auglamour RX-1. Somehow, I managed to position RX so well in my ears that they became resolution beasts with impressive overall sound quality and even better bass than these 2 (even when I tried this position with mx style shell). They retained everything good they had and improved massively overall. They literally produce better mid range than my Meze 99 Classics...
> For me, the trick was to loop the cables over ears plus turn the drivers not towards my head but towards the front of me, putting the driver in my ear sideways as a result. I don't quite get the magic that happened but it turned average earbuds into beasts. My ear canal is very standard, angled IEMs are usually exactly perfect for me. This way, diver faces ear tragus (had to google to find out the name of it), also, I am using Auglamour full foams.
> Someone please try this, it is so good that I need someone to confirm that I am not in a dream. . .



Completely agree. The RX-1 plays in the same league as the Zen 2 and Blur. It's an absolute steal, and miles ahead of all budget buds in both soundstage and resolution. If people are not understanding this, there's a few possibilities:

1. They've purchased a dud. 
2. They're not seated properly in the ear. If this is simply due to earshape, not much can be done, however, these are not any larger circumference-wise than an MX500 shell as far as I can tell. 
3. They are slightly hard of hearing. 

I wear these with a full foam and a donut over the foam. I use the same config for the Blur. These have slightly more bloom in the midrange than the Blur, however the Blur is slightly more resolving with better clarity. The Blur was also 5+ times the price, as was the Zen, sooooo... 
The Zen is warmer and has better bass, in terms of both quality and quantity, however, the RX-1 has punchy well resolved, tight bass - no too bad at all. If the Blur is analytical and the Zen is warm, then the Auglamour RX-1 kind of sits between the two actually.


----------



## danimoca

Guys, what are the earbuds with the most similar sound to the Blox M2C?

Thanks!


----------



## vladstef

RyanM said:


> Completely agree. The RX-1 plays in the same league as the Zen 2 and Blur. It's an absolute steal, and miles ahead of all budget buds in both soundstage and resolution. If people are not understanding this, there's a few possibilities:
> 
> 1. They've purchased a dud.
> 2. They're not seated properly in the ear. If this is simply due to earshape, not much can be done, however, these are not any larger circumference-wise than an MX500 shell as far as I can tell.
> ...


I think you nailed the part about polarizing opinions about RX-1. I also agree on the lower mid range being a bit too thick, it just creates kind of a resonating sound somewhere around 200Hz, but this is not something to raise concerns, just a small gripe. I actually created a minimal eq for them, lowering by a few db 200-1000, slightly boosting 2k and everything after 7-8k, just a db or 2 - this balances them without ever feeling like you broke the sound by using eq, again, just slight tweak retaining everything important of the original sound. I am still in disbelief about them, I've had them for a couple of months and just now realized what they actually are. How can this kind of quality mid range be obtained for 20$?
I disagree a bit about soundstage, I think it's more about average width (for an open style headphone) and very good imaging. These 2 aspects are not easy to discern so I could be wrong, also, my specific fit could be doing something in this regard.


----------



## MLTKSHHBT

RyanM said:


> Completely agree. The RX-1 plays in the same league as the Zen 2 and Blur. It's an absolute steal, and miles ahead of all budget buds in both soundstage and resolution. If people are not understanding this, there's a few possibilities:
> 
> 1. They've purchased a dud.
> 2. They're not seated properly in the ear. If this is simply due to earshape, not much can be done, however, these are not any larger circumference-wise than an MX500 shell as far as I can tell.
> ...


I remember someone was " trying to accuse " blur's maker of using taobao cheap materials which he felt it sounds quite similar with another much cheaper earbuds k300s or something, I use " trying " and "accuse" because I do agree that the final product's sound quality might not depend entirely on the materials he chooses to use. Having said this, since many earbuds are using common or generic driver, shell, etc..., it is understandable to have doubt of paying so much more but getting the similar products without the feeling of being shortchanged!


----------



## MLTKSHHBT

Frederick Wang said:


> 40 hours burning time for Blur 魔音 and I'm astounded. It gave me an almost unreal feeling of musical presence.
> Next stop would be find some proper foams for them.


I'm always confused about the versions of blur, so 魔音 is which? I'm having the silver one.
With full foam that comes with the blur, the shell sits nicely in my left ear, but I feel the right side is too loose and feel dropping out...


----------



## siderak

Frederick Wang said:


> 40 hours burning time for Blur 魔音 and I'm astounded. It gave me an almost unreal feeling of musical presence.
> Next stop would be find some proper foams for them.


I use the ve monk thin foams and can't go back to anything else.


----------



## RyanM

vladstef said:


> I think you nailed the part about polarizing opinions about RX-1. I also agree on the lower mid range being a bit too thick, it just creates kind of a resonating sound somewhere around 200Hz, but this is not something to raise concerns, just a small gripe. I actually created a minimal eq for them, lowering by a few db 200-1000, slightly boosting 2k and everything after 7-8k, just a db or 2 - this balances them without ever feeling like you broke the sound by using eq, again, just slight tweak retaining everything important of the original sound. I am still in disbelief about them, I've had them for a couple of months and just now realized what they actually are. How can this kind of quality mid range be obtained for 20$?
> I disagree a bit about soundstage, I think it's more about average width (for an open style headphone) and very good imaging. These 2 aspects are not easy to discern so I could be wrong, also, my specific fit could be doing something in this regard.



Interesting stuff. You're probably right with regards to "imaging". It's true that it's not a mindblowing stage so I will backpedal on that, however, you do get this sense of depth that's truly an oddity at this price range, for both IEM and and earbuds IMO. 



MLTKSHHBT said:


> I remember someone was " trying to accuse " blur's maker of using taobao cheap materials which he felt it sounds quite similar with another much cheaper earbuds k300s or something, I use " trying " and "accuse" because I do agree that the final product's sound quality might not depend entirely on the materials he chooses to use. Having said this, since many earbuds are using common or generic driver, shell, etc..., it is understandable to have doubt of paying so much more but getting the similar products without the feeling of being shortchanged!



Hmm, ya, well in my opinion there's several aspects in the make-up of a good earbud. That whole scenario was a bit strange and in no way properly reflects the quality of the product in question. There's no doubt that the Blur is unique, and preference is preference, but it is absolutely nothing like the K300 if you are comparing descriptions only. Ive not heard the K, but I definitely think that the Blur is well worth the investment and it's easily my favorite earphone - of any type - that I've had the priviledge of owning. Like Wild Lee said in his Reddit (paraphrasing) the Zen is priced as such for sound quality achieved. 

To those curious; there is 3 flavors of Blur, and I believe (tho im not 100% certain), that they have the same driver tuning. The varying prices reflect the quality of the cables used. They are very well built, I know Wong from various conversations we've had and can vouch for his sincerity. He is not making these because he needs the money. It's his passion and he enjoys it. The Blurs have 300ohm impedence and need to be driven as such. They are source sensitive and scale well to power. He's recently revealed a 64ohm version - I dont know if its a limited edition or if he's going to role with it going forward. As far As I can tell, most Blur owners absolutely love them, but music is a very personal experience, so, with that in mind, you can't win them all...


----------



## redkingjoe

ctaxxxx said:


> If you're interested in just the cable, they sell a mmcx version - LINK
> 
> That comment is from a year ago, but the Shozy BK does hold up well. I'm still debating whether I should have kept it in my top 5, instead of QFred, but I like to keep the ranking varied and the QFred's are the only warm buds on there now. I definitely recommend the Shozy's though as a perfect entry into TOTL buds. They're still the most comfortable too!



I read your review notes very carefully many times and also read a lot of good things on BK. Shozy bk is definitely a good TOTL, especially with the clarity, price, comfort, materials.

I think you don't need to debate and struggle with keeping BK as top 5 very long...the new Shozy is about due! 

Thank you very much for all your review notes. They are really useful.


----------



## snip3r77

redkingjoe said:


> I read your review notes very carefully many times and also read a lot of good things on BK. Shozy bk is definitely a good TOTL, especially with the clarity, price, comfort, materials.
> 
> I think you don't need to debate and struggle with keeping BK as top 5 very long...the new Shozy is about due!
> 
> Thank you very much for all your review notes. They are really useful.



I've just gotten myside a Fido. Hopefuly it would be a good start for my earbud journey. If I were to look for a better earbud, what would I be looking at?


----------



## redkingjoe (Aug 17, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> I've just gotten myside a Fido. Hopefuly it would be a good start for my earbud journey. If I were to look for a better earbud, what would I be looking at?



Congratulations. You are more advanced than myself as of this moment. I'm still shopping for my first earbud.

Did you have a chance reading @ctaxxxx ' s list. 

Seriously, I am thinking of buying cypherus red dragon, a custom made new earbud. 

Someone says red dragon is a super performer that gets very close to huge size good headphone and best many full sized headphone.

Red dragon is expensive...I don't know the exact price yet...but it is cheaper than keep upgrading if one wants the best


----------



## redkingjoe

Trippin said:


> Looking at buds around the 200 dollar mark. I prefer a warmer sig so I'm not getting the shozy bk. The campfred 2 seems promising but haven't seen any comprehensive reviews others than ctaxxx's. Does anyone have any imppression/links to review?



I also like warmer sound. 

But the struggle is warmer sound earphone seems not to be as clear in the high and extreme high frequency. When I listen to the " ding ding ding " of a song, I often feel dissatisfied with a warmer phone.

I guess Shozy bk should pair up with tube amp and dac well.


----------



## snip3r77

redkingjoe said:


> Congratulations. You are more advanced than myself as of this moment. I'm still shopping for my first earbud.
> 
> Did you have a chance reading @ctaxxxx ' s list.
> 
> ...



yeah I read the list hence I bought the Vido, probably after listening to it , I'd gauge my taste from here


----------



## chaiyuta

MLTKSHHBT said:


> I'm always confused about the versions of blur, so 魔音 is which? I'm having the silver one.
> With full foam that comes with the blur, the shell sits nicely in my left ear, but I feel the right side is too loose and feel dropping out...


If you own 925Silver housing shell, it called "魔王". If you own transparent cable and transparent plastic shell, it called "魔音".


----------



## MLTKSHHBT (Aug 18, 2017)

chaiyuta said:


> If you own 925Silver housing shell, it called "魔王". If you own transparent cable and transparent plastic shell, it called "魔音".


Then what I got is 魔音。I was never offered the silver housing of 魔王。


----------



## Frederick Wang

MLTKSHHBT said:


> Then I got is 魔音。I was never offered the silver housing of 魔王。


Yep, the silver cable and transparent shell ones. 
魔声/聲 and 魔音 both means "magic sound" so it could be difficult to translate into English. 
I gather from what Wong told me they are the same earbuds with different cables, with 魔音 a little bit more expensive than 魔声/聲
魔王（devil king）uses totally different drivers, and they are priced a lot higher than the aforesaid 2.


----------



## MLTKSHHBT

Frederick Wang said:


> Yep, the silver cable and transparent shell ones.
> 魔声/聲 and 魔音 both means "magic sound" so it could be difficult to translate into English.
> I gather from what Wong told me they are the same earbuds with different cables, with 魔音 a little bit more expensive than 魔声/聲
> 魔王（devil king）uses totally different drivers, and they are priced a lot higher than the aforesaid 2.


Haha maybe he presumed I couldn't afford it.
What's the difference? You tried it before?


----------



## Frederick Wang

MLTKSHHBT said:


> Haha maybe he presumed I couldn't afford it.
> What's the difference? You tried it before?


Nope, I only have 魔音。
You have to ask him about 魔王，or he wouldn't tell you...


----------



## mochill

Anyone selling a stardust let me know


----------



## Frederick Wang (Aug 18, 2017)

I found a trick for Blur, to my ears they sound the best when worn naked, then cover them with hands.
Need a second opinion here. Caz if that is true, when I use them on streets, people might think my ears were bitten off by a bear.


----------



## waynes world

snip3r77 said:


> I've just gotten myside a Fido. Hopefuly it would be a good start for my earbud journey. If I were to look for a better earbud, what would I be looking at?



Assuming you meant "Vido", I think that's a great start for your journey. I listen to my Vido's daily (even though I have much more expensive earbuds). The only problem for you is that you will think that all earbuds costing more than $5 _must _sound as good as the Vido, so you will start trying and buying many, and probably more expensive earbuds. And occasionally you will come back to the Vido's and think "why didn't I just save my money and stop at the Vido's"? Such is the thrill of the search for audio nirvana lol!


----------



## Saoshyant

Just keep in mind if you prize vocals, Vido can come off as slightly disappointing at times.  I know everyone loves it, as do I, but it does sometimes get oversold.


----------



## waynes world

Saoshyant said:


> Just keep in mind if you prize vocals, Vido can come off as slightly disappointing at times.  I know everyone loves it, as do I, but it does sometimes get oversold.



Vocals? What are vocals? 

Do you have a list of your preferred budget buds? I'm getting the itch to get another pair. Was thinking of the DIY EMX500. I would say that the Vido and Zen1 signatures appeal to me.


----------



## Saoshyant (Aug 18, 2017)

@waynes world  I'd generally say that the EMX500 is not quite as good at bass as Vido, but offers better mids to trade off, letting it be a little more balanced and a lot more versatile.  I think it's the superior earbud sonically, but not by a big margin.  It is by no means a slouch in the bass department, something that's very important to me.  Sonically, my focus is bass with vocals ahead enough to not be ruined by the bass.  For those two, it really more comes down to your preferences.  Another alternative at the real budget range would be the TP16, but you're trading off a little bass again for vocals.  If you lived in Indonesia, I'd suggest looking up Initiate Audio as their budget earbud offers wonderful bass and some respectable vocals too which makes me happy, but for me, the shipping fees were more than the earbud's cost, plus another 12 in Western Union fees, which together pushed it to around $45 or so, which IMO is outside budget range at that point.

Considering the two you really like, you're probably not going to find a real upgrade until you get to something like the new Hi-Z 150S which has some excellent bass with a little mids recession, as well as the SeaHF 320 Smart 1.0 which I'm unsure if it's still something you can find.  I'm not going to say the 150S is amazing and the best thing ever, but from a bassy perspective, it's very solid for an earbud once EQ hits it.

My progression for that type of sound would most likely be Vido to 150S or Smart 1.0 to Edimun V3 Rhodium or Svara L to Zen 1, all of this assuming they're available.  Between Edimun and Svara, the Edimun would be closer to the EMX500 sound where the Svara L is more about bass.  I should mention that the Svara L might be quite difficult to find as they released a new version quite quickly after the original released, that I believe is 32 ohm, and I have not convinced myself to buy it to see how much the sound sig has changed.  The stated goal of the change was to help those who listen to music via smartphone be capable of listening, as the original was 150 ohm unless I'm mistaken.  By quickly, once the pre-orders arrived, they already has the new version for sale to replace the original.

Really though, I would imagine you'll most likely be happy with the EMX500, and if you're not, I can buy your pair so you're not out any money, and I'll have another spare if they disappear on us.


----------



## golov17

mochill said:


> Anyone selling a stardust let me know


@ctaxxxx


----------



## Saoshyant

golov17 said:


> @ctaxxxx



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-shozy-bk-earbuds.858124/


----------



## golov17

✌


----------



## cocolinho

EMX500 are fantastic. would dare to say unbelievable for the price. I prefer these to HP150S which I find unbalanced (too v shaped)


----------



## waynes world

Saoshyant said:


> @waynes world  I'd generally say that the EMX500 is not quite as good at bass as Vido, but offers better mids to trade off, letting it be a little more balanced and a lot more versatile.  I think it's the superior earbud sonically, but not by a big margin.  It is by no means a slouch in the bass department, something that's very important to me.  Sonically, my focus is bass with vocals ahead enough to not be ruined by the bass.  For those two, it really more comes down to your preferences.  Another alternative at the real budget range would be the TP16, but you're trading off a little bass again for vocals.  If you lived in Indonesia, I'd suggest looking up Initiate Audio as their budget earbud offers wonderful bass and some respectable vocals too which makes me happy, but for me, the shipping fees were more than the earbud's cost, plus another 12 in Western Union fees, which together pushed it to around $45 or so, which IMO is outside budget range at that point.
> 
> Considering the two you really like, you're probably not going to find a real upgrade until you get to something like the new Hi-Z 150S which has some excellent bass with a little mids recession, as well as the SeaHF 320 Smart 1.0 which I'm unsure if it's still something you can find.  I'm not going to say the 150S is amazing and the best thing ever, but from a bassy perspective, it's very solid for an earbud once EQ hits it.
> 
> ...



Awesome info Saoshyant - thanks! I will be reviewing the buds that you mention, but for now I will definitely be getting the EMX500's.

And thanks for the kind offer. I won't be taking you up on that offer for something like the EMX500's, but I am interested in the Beyerdynamics DT1990's. You in?


----------



## Saoshyant

waynes world said:


> Awesome info Saoshyant - thanks! I will be reviewing the buds that you mention, but for now I will definitely be getting the EMX500's.
> 
> And thanks for the kind offer. I won't be taking you up on that offer for something like the EMX500's, but I am interested in the Beyerdynamics DT1990's. You in?



Ha, I may be nice, but I'm also probably about to buy a used pair of ZMF Ori, that much might be a little more than I'm willing to go.


----------



## waynes world

cocolinho said:


> EMX500 are fantastic. would dare to say unbelievable for the price. I prefer these to HP150S which I find unbalanced (too v shaped)



If possible, please provide an aliexpress link (too many options - confusing!). Thanks.


----------



## Saoshyant

150S - https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...iFi-Earbuds-Earphone/1994049_32819126358.html

EMX500 that I bought - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...ass-Earbuds-DJ-Earbuds-Heavy/32789378048.html

EMX500 paired with Walnut for better overall price - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...pport-32GB-TF-Card-Expansion/32727723202.html

If I remember you already have a Walnut, so the last link is pointless, but someone might find the combo price appealing, at least for the V2S as it makes the EMX500 cost $2.29.


----------



## waynes world

Saoshyant said:


> 150S - https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...iFi-Earbuds-Earphone/1994049_32819126358.html
> 
> EMX500 that I bought - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...ass-Earbuds-DJ-Earbuds-Heavy/32789378048.html
> 
> ...



Thanks again! Yes, I do have the Walnut (with burson v5i) that I listen to it daily. Initially I didn't think that I could handle a screenless dap, but I love it and it's the only thing holding me back from getting a cayin n3 lol. So you're doing headfiers a great service posting that walnut link!


----------



## Saoshyant

So, I got a new "toy" just because I was feeling nostalgic.  Found a used functional Sony WM-D6C for not an overly obnoxious sum, and I wanted to treat myself, so why not.  I have to laugh at the power output, because Zen 2 for example requires quite a bit out of my Opus #1, and Shanling M1 can get the volume high enough but isn't doing any favors.  Realistically, neither of those are going to drive it to full potential, but I can always slap on an amp if desired.  Now, the D6C is probably 5 times the volume roughly of the Opus, but I'm listening to the Zen 2 at 3/10 volume, so I have a bit of room to breathe.  Time to dig through my cassettes for something awesome....  actually, time to grab CampFred 2 first.


----------



## prone2phone

cocolinho said:


> EMX500 are fantastic. would dare to say unbelievable for the price. I prefer these to HP150S which I find unbalanced (too v shaped)



When I first heard emx500 I thought they destroy everything, but later they started to fatique me. With  Vido (full thick foams) I can enjoy music for hours.  
I'll try a bit of comparison. Emx has wide stage but Vidos have better depth (on average). Vido sounds good with male singers and live performances, are musical and involving, more to the natural sound. Emx are much clearer, feel on the neutral balance, female vocals have energy on top and details pop out more easily. Technical comes to mind. What is interesting that Vidos despite some veil display good level of details.


----------



## waynes world

Saoshyant said:


> So, I got a new "toy" just because I was feeling nostalgic.  Found a used functional Sony WM-D6C for not an overly obnoxious sum, and I wanted to treat myself, so why not.  I have to laugh at the power output, because Zen 2 for example requires quite a bit out of my Opus #1, and Shanling M1 can get the volume high enough but isn't doing any favors.  Realistically, neither of those are going to drive it to full potential, but I can always slap on an amp if desired.  Now, the D6C is probably 5 times the volume roughly of the Opus, but I'm listening to the Zen 2 at 3/10 volume, so I have a bit of room to breathe.  Time to dig through my cassettes for something awesome....  actually, time to grab CampFred 2 first.



Talk about old school! I have a few garbled cassettes that my first car (girlfriend not included) stereo ate many moons ago that I'll mail off to you lol


----------



## redkingjoe

Saoshyant said:


> So, I got a new "toy" just because I was feeling nostalgic.  Found a used functional Sony WM-D6C for not an overly obnoxious sum, and I wanted to treat myself, so why not.  I have to laugh at the power output, because Zen 2 for example requires quite a bit out of my Opus #1, and Shanling M1 can get the volume high enough but isn't doing any favors.  Realistically, neither of those are going to drive it to full potential, but I can always slap on an amp if desired.  Now, the D6C is probably 5 times the volume roughly of the Opus, but I'm listening to the Zen 2 at 3/10 volume, so I have a bit of room to breathe.  Time to dig through my cassettes for something awesome....  actually, time to grab CampFred 2 first.


Good for you! One of the best portable source! 

The legendary mighty Sony wm-d6c is one of the best portable analogue player! Depending on the health of your d6c and if you have good tapes, d6c should beat most MP3 players, 95% of portable CD players, smart phone, smartpad etc. 

I will be very very very happy, if I can use d6c to drive Sony e484 or e282 earbuds!


----------



## mochill

Getting the stardust soon


----------



## chinmie

Saoshyant said:


> @waynes world
> My progression for that type of sound would most likely be Vido to 150S or Smart 1.0 to Edimun V3 Rhodium or Svara L to Zen 1, all of this assuming they're available.  Between Edimun and Svara, the Edimun would be closer to the EMX500 sound where the Svara L is more about bass.



agreed, the edimun is like the vido or emx500 in sound, but with greater resolution and more mature sound, but in terms of bass, the edimun don't reach the same sub bass like the vido and emx500



prone2phone said:


> When I first heard emx500 I thought they destroy everything, but later they started to fatique me. With  Vido (full thick foams) I can enjoy music for hours.
> I'll try a bit of comparison. Emx has wide stage but Vidos have better depth (on average). Vido sounds good with male singers and live performances, are musical and involving, more to the natural sound. Emx are much clearer, feel on the neutral balance, female vocals have energy on top and details pop out more easily. Technical comes to mind. What is interesting that Vidos despite some veil display good level of details.



try the vido with thin monk foams, no veil on the details


----------



## gazzington

Hey all. Where can I buy these blur ear buds you talk about?


----------



## snip3r77

waynes world said:


> Assuming you meant "Vido", I think that's a great start for your journey. I listen to my Vido's daily (even though I have much more expensive earbuds). The only problem for you is that you will think that all earbuds costing more than $5 _must _sound as good as the Vido, so you will start trying and buying many, and probably more expensive earbuds. And occasionally you will come back to the Vido's and think "why didn't I just save my money and stop at the Vido's"? Such is the thrill of the search for audio nirvana lol!


For the next level what would I be looking at, an upgrade not sidegrade. Emx500 is sidegrade ?


----------



## redkingjoe

mochill said:


> Getting the stardust soon


Congratulations.

Feeling happy for you! I believe stardust is one of the best price product. 

As I just bought two IEM this month, I'm still struggling to pay for the stardust.


----------



## Frederick Wang

gazzington said:


> Hey all. Where can I buy these blur ear buds you talk about?


Wong Kuan Wae @Facebook


----------



## gc335

mochill said:


> Getting the stardust soon


I'm a huge fan of these buds.  Unfortunately, my pair developed distortion on the right side.  I sent them back to Penon for exchange.  I miss them!  Definitely put some hours on them!  They sound great out of the box but they improve with time.


----------



## MLTKSHHBT

@Frederick Wang 
How's the ad8620br compared with the stock op amp on zishan z2?


----------



## MLTKSHHBT

Anyone has Campfred 2 or Cax  Black? Are these the upgrade or side grade to Shozy bk?


----------



## doggiemom

I bought the CAX Black from another member of this forum and am very happy with them.  Except the cable is very, very stiff so they really can't be used when walking or moving around.  Haven't heard the Shozy.


----------



## Blackground

mochill said:


> Getting the stardust soon



Get em balanced! Shozy BK are outstanding earbuds, I am going to do a comparison pretty soon with those and the Zen 2.0 White.


----------



## Saoshyant

@redkingjoe This is my first time hearing the D6C, so can't compare.  As far as physical shape, there's minor cosmetic issues but nothing that hamper my ability to enjoy the player.  I had to laugh because as I've never seen one before it's the size of a damn brick, so maybe 5x the size of my Opus #1, and who knows how many times larger than the Shanling M1.  In order to listen to CampFred 2 due to it's output power, I have to use my ifi IEmatch on ultra sensitivity on volume 6/10, otherwise there's some noise which is to be expected with that kind of output.  Otherwise, I'd deal with a little noise at 1.5/10 volume, which honestly isn't bad and only is noticeable when paused.  I almost wonder...  hmm, HD700 at 2/10.  Wish I had something actually difficult to drive.  Also love it has line out so I can really have fun with it if I ever get an awesome amp.


----------



## mochill

Stardust is limited edition as well, just saw it on shozy Facebook page =-O


----------



## danimoca

You guys will destroy my wallet. 

Just bought the EMX500 (my second earbud purchase, after the Monk+'s) and thinking of ordering some other 5 pairs


----------



## vladstef

danimoca said:


> You guys will destroy my wallet.
> 
> Just bought the EMX500 (my second earbud purchase, after the Monk+'s) and thinking of ordering some other 5 pairs


I bought Vidos first, was incredibly confused, the sound coming out of these was beyond mind blowing for the price as well as earbud form factor as a whole - having never heard any good earbuds previously. Then got Auglamour and EMX500. Now looking towards this graphene earbud that is making some people excited. I think this earbud craze started with Monks and is in full throttle for the perceivable future, exciting stuff is gonna happen in the next few years, mark my words.


----------



## snip3r77

vladstef said:


> I bought Vidos first, was incredibly confused, the sound coming out of these was beyond mind blowing for the price as well as earbud form factor as a whole - having never heard any good earbuds previously. Then got Auglamour and EMX500. Now looking towards this graphene earbud that is making some people excited. I think this earbud craze started with Monks and is in full throttle for the perceivable future, exciting stuff is gonna happen in the next few years, mark my words.



If you have the Vido, those models that you've mentioned are they really sidegrades?


----------



## vladstef (Aug 19, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> If you have the Vido, those models that you've mentioned are they really sidegrades?


EMX500 appears to be a sidestep, but they really act as an upgrade for people who prefer brighter stronger mid range compared to smoother sound (realistically, they are in the same price bracket, give Vidos a better cable, case, more foams and you see how it would cost closer to EMX500). Auglamour RX-1 is a strange pair, I've had a revelation recently with fitting them in my ears and now I strongly prefer them over these 2, by a big margin actually, even though they might have technically worse extension both ways (previously, they were worse than other 2). Don't get me wrong, you get the bass and highs if you can fit them nicely, and I believe anyone can as RX-1 is one of the smallest earbuds with smaller than average drivers. Imho, they have better mid range over Meze 99 Classics, which are very positively reviewed 300$ over ear headphones, and I still can't quite grasp this reality. Vidos blew me away but RX-1 with proper placement is beyond unreal and shakes everything I believed in in terms of price to performance ratio of any audio equipment.


----------



## snip3r77

vladstef said:


> EMX500 appears to be a sidestep, but they really act as an upgrade for people who prefer brighter stronger mid range compared to smoother sound (realistically, they are in the same price bracket, give Vidos a better cable, case, more foams and you see how it would cost closer to EMX500). Auglamour RX-1 is a strange pair, I've had a revelation recently with fitting them in my ears and now I strongly prefer them over these 2, by a big margin actually, even though they might have technically worse extension both ways (previously, they were worse than other 2). Don't get me wrong, you get the bass and highs if you can fit them nicely, and I believe anyone can as RX-1 is one of the smallest earbuds with smaller than average drivers. Imho, they have better mid range over Meze 99 Classics, which are very positively reviewed 300$ over ear headphones, and I still can't quite grasp this reality. Vidos blew me away but RX-1 with proper placement is beyond unreal and shakes everything I believed in in terms of price to performance ratio of any audio equipment.



Thanks, I'd keep RX-1 in my mind
Coming from sub $30 chi-fis IEMs. What would I be expecting on my Vido?


----------



## redkingjoe

Frederick Wang said:


> Wong Kuan Wae @Facebook


Thanks.

It's very nice of you.

Please speed up with your burning and give up some insight.

It seems to me that blur is a decent headphone to consider. 

Just hope that someone will invest in the blur king!


----------



## redkingjoe

doggiemom said:


> I bought the CAX Black from another member of this forum and am very happy with them.  Except the cable is very, very stiff so they really can't be used when walking or moving around.  Haven't heard the Shozy.




Lucky guy! CAX black should be very very good! 

I didn't consider it because of the stiff cable. But the cable is actually a key factor of making it to sound good!


----------



## redkingjoe

mochill said:


> Stardust is limited edition as well, just saw it on shozy Facebook page =-O



Thanks for the information. I probably will buy it.

I didn't buy Shozy bk because I was talking to Shozy team last week. 

They said that when starburst was sold out they would issue a new model.

 And they were thinking of calling the new model Starbucks.


----------



## mochill

I already heard about the new stuff coming out by shozy but still want the stardust as they are totl earbud and all there products are a must have.also getting the new iem from them too


----------



## cigarello (Aug 20, 2017)

Received the Blur from Wong the other day and have burnt them in a bit.

All I can say is wow. They are considerably better than my Shozy BK (se) and those cost even more! I thought the vido was already 95% of the Shozy and the blur just blow both out of the water. I've been using them more than my full size Grado PS500's as well so thats saying something.


----------



## redkingjoe

Saoshyant said:


> @redkingjoe This is my first time hearing the D6C, so can't compare.  As far as physical shape, there's minor cosmetic issues but nothing that hamper my ability to enjoy the player.  I had to laugh because as I've never seen one before it's the size of a damn brick, so maybe 5x the size of my Opus #1, and who knows how many times larger than the Shanling M1.  In order to listen to CampFred 2 due to it's output power, I have to use my ifi IEmatch on ultra sensitivity on volume 6/10, otherwise there's some noise which is to be expected with that kind of output.  Otherwise, I'd deal with a little noise at 1.5/10 volume, which honestly isn't bad and only is noticeable when paused.  I almost wonder...  hmm, HD700 at 2/10.  Wish I had something actually difficult to drive.  Also love it has line out so I can really have fun with it if I ever get an awesome amp.


Sony is the king of Walkman. D6C is the Holly grail. It should be fun to play with. The only problem is finding good tapes. I went to Japan last December . I went window shopping and I saw a lot of tapes. I was told that Listening to tape is becoming trendy now and the price of good tape is very high too.

Have you demagnetised the D6c? It should sound much better after that.

So CampFred2 is power hungry? I'm also considering to get a pair.


----------



## redkingjoe

cigarello said:


> Received the Blur from Wong the other day and have burnt them in a bit.
> 
> All I can say is wow. They are considerably better than my Shozy BK (se) and those cost even more! I thought the vido was already 95% of the Shozy and the blur just blow both out of the water. I've been using them more than my full size Grado PS500's as well so thats saying something.



Wow. Blur blow Shozy BK..out of water! 

Interesting.

Would you tell me the price of these 3 models? Actually, I'm interested in the 925 silver king!

Thanks!


----------



## redkingjoe

mochill said:


> I already heard about the new stuff coming out by shozy but still want the stardust as they are totl earbud and all there products are a must have.also getting the new iem from them too



Stardust is a classic!


----------



## cigarello

redkingjoe said:


> Wow. Blur blow Shozy BK..out of water!
> 
> Interesting.
> 
> ...



Yeap! They are cheaper and better! 

I believe the 3 models are $128, $167, $200 SGD? Give or take a few dollars. And the silver kings really are special but I don't have that type of money to spend on an earbud  I thought they were $425?


----------



## cigarello

Anyone know whos a good seller on Aliexpress who sells the Zishan Z2 with interchangable opamps?


----------



## mag8

Yesterday finally the **** PT15 came in the mail, i did a quick comparison with my Faaeal 32 before putting them to burn in overnight and i was a bit surprised.

**** have less bass and sound a bit more focused on the mids, with more clarity. The Faaeal in comparison seem to fill the ears with bass (overkill for me) but their fit is much better. Because of the poor fit of the ****, they tilt out and they lose even more bass because of that.

Anyways, will let them but in for a few more days before trying it again


----------



## mag8

Yesterday finally the **** PT15 came in the mail, i did a quick comparison with my Faaeal 32 before putting them to burn in overnight and i was a bit surprised.

**** have less bass and sound a bit more focused on the mids, with more clarity. The Faaeal in comparison seem to fill the ears with bass (overkill for me) but their fit is much better. Because of the poor fit of the ****, they tilt out and they lose even more bass because of that.

Anyways, will let them but in for a few more days before trying it again


----------



## chinmie

mag8 said:


> Yesterday finally the **** PT15 came in the mail, i did a quick comparison with my Faaeal 32 before putting them to burn in overnight and i was a bit surprised.
> 
> **** have less bass and sound a bit more focused on the mids, with more clarity. The Faaeal in comparison seem to fill the ears with bass (overkill for me) but their fit is much better. Because of the poor fit of the ****, they tilt out and they lose even more bass because of that.
> 
> Anyways, will let them but in for a few more days before trying it again



do you have rubber rings like from the ve expansion pack? i got great fitting of the **** using the rubber ring and cover it with hiegi donut foams. it is currently my favorite everyday buds to use


----------



## redkingjoe

cigarello said:


> Yeap! They are cheaper and better!
> 
> I believe the 3 models are $128, $167, $200 SGD? Give or take a few dollars. And the silver kings really are special but I don't have that type of money to spend on an earbud  I thought they were $425?


Thanks.

But I don't want a plastic earbuds! 

Silver king S$425!


----------



## cigarello

redkingjoe said:


> Thanks.
> 
> But I don't want a plastic earbuds!
> 
> Silver king S$425!



Don't know if silver king or not but the housing is made of silver and it costs $428 SGD.


----------



## MLTKSHHBT

redkingjoe said:


> Thanks.
> 
> But I don't want a plastic earbuds!
> 
> Silver king S$425!


AHA no wonder Wong only quoted his 3 models to me and left out the King! Out of goodwill not to frighten me off I guess...
There first 3 models are with same driver, only difference is cable, and according to the maker the higher priced silver sounds fuller...those who do not believe by changing cable would change the sound of their iem might have doubt to pay the extra bucks, though I still grabbed the silver at the end.
If the King is using the same driver, only other variables are the shell and the cable, but can it justify the double of the price of the standard sliver?
I'm actually quite interested and curious about the CA buds, with USD100 increase from one model to another. With limited infos, it's kind of difficult to choose which one.
How much better of the CAX black vs the Campfred 2?


----------



## Frederick Wang

MLTKSHHBT said:


> @Frederick Wang
> How's the ad8620br compared with the stock op amp on zishan z2?


makes the sound much much more vigorous, lovin' it


----------



## Frederick Wang

redkingjoe said:


> Thanks.
> 
> It's very nice of you.
> 
> ...



Have them for around a week now, I believe the sound has stabilized. 
Anyway, it is one of the best, if not the very best earbud I have owned. 
But there is a downside to them, I love them best when worn naked and have my ears covered, I wasn't kidding. 
Heigi donut foam comes as a far behind second. 
The thing is, I found that they left a small gap between outside and my ear canals, 
when that gap is covered, sound quality improves significantly. 
It is the shape of my ears to blame, really. Still searching for a solution.


----------



## Frederick Wang

mag8 said:


> Yesterday finally the **** PT15 came in the mail, i did a quick comparison with my Faaeal 32 before putting them to burn in overnight and i was a bit surprised.
> 
> **** have less bass and sound a bit more focused on the mids, with more clarity. The Faaeal in comparison seem to fill the ears with bass (overkill for me) but their fit is much better. Because of the poor fit of the ****, they tilt out and they lose even more bass because of that.
> 
> Anyways, will let them but in for a few more days before trying it again


Loved PT15 when I had them. 
Beautiful treble, my type of signature. 
Finally let them go for aesthetic reasons...


----------



## SilverEars

Just got the Auglamour RX-1.  The speaker is huge. It will not stay on my ear as it too large to place it in my ear.  Just as I suspected, fit is terrible and will not stay in place, it sounds different from pushing it against my ear compared to leaving it situated on my ear.  There is no way I can walk around without these falling off.  I don't know how these are practical.  How do you guys keep it in place while moving around?


----------



## Saoshyant

For me the RX-1 has a reasonably snug fit, and is quite comfortable.  It'll probably always be one of my recommended budget earbuds, and it's a shame to hear you have issues with it.


----------



## teesui

SilverEars said:


> Just got the Auglamour RX-1.  The speaker is huge. It will not stay on my ear as it too large to place it in my ear.  Just as I suspected, fit is terrible



I thought the RX-1 is smaller than the MX 500 shells?

Unless I'm mistaken.


----------



## SilverEars

Saoshyant said:


> For me the RX-1 has a reasonably snug fit, and is quite comfortable.  It'll probably always be one of my recommended budget earbuds, and it's a shame to hear you have issues with it.


It fits in your ear?  You must have huge canal entrance because these are quite large in diameter.  This is not for avg ear size for sure.  Ibuds fits my ears, but these are too large.

I wish I was warned about this.  This is quite disappointing.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 20, 2017)

My main issue with these is that I don't know if it's situated right or not because the changes in sound as I adhere it for better seal compare keeping it suspending in place(I call it suspending because it don't fit!).  It doesn't fall off, but it's not really fit I was expecting like typical buds which are small in diameter and actually slides in to stay in place, and feels like the best fit possible for buds, but for this one, it's so large I cannot even get it to that level.  This is a problem and sound depends on fit, and I don't know how these can be recommended with such fit.

Do we know what fit means and what kind of effect it can have on sound?


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 20, 2017)

At least if these were purposefully sized to have more of a situated fit for particular sound I can understand because sometimes iems can sound better with loose fit, and has more of stage and airyness created from it, but it is not the case for these.  It sounds like typical buds sound you get from lack of seal.

From what I notice, earbud fits are disadvantageous.  Fit is very very important!  I can't even get these to stay in place properly.  

Anyway I already suspected this, and I made the wrong decision to believe yall here.  Bad judgement on my part.


----------



## Saoshyant

Hmm, would you consider trying it with ear hooks/fin which would help keep it in place?  I know with the red demun I have to use fins due to the stiffness of the cable removing them from my ears, and they might help you as well.  If you've bought a Monk+ you should have some available.


----------



## SilverEars

Hook will not do much as I have to push it to keep it on decently.  All hook will do is keep it from falling off, it shouldn't have effect on insertion.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 20, 2017)

Here's an issue why it's more difficult to stay in place.  It's because the rubbery part doesn't have enough friction(it doesn't have the friction that other buds have around the circumference area).  Utilitarian design decisions were terrible.


----------



## Saoshyant

I use mine with Monk foams, which help keep them snuggly in place.  I've never gotten a good fit with naked buds.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 20, 2017)

Anyway, I'll give it some time.  With buds I'm sure brain burn-in is crucial as frequency response is skewed due to the non-seal.  It's a matter your brain getting used to the frequency response from the lack of seal, but obviously the sound is not correct.

Let's be straight here.  If the sound is different due to lack of seal, let's say that and not waste people's time.


----------



## vladstef

@SilverEars 
I had the same issues with RX-1, but less so with Vidos. It's not about the size (no pun intended), more about the position and how to fit it best to face your ear canal. First of all, use the foam tips, I use RX-1's provided full foams, not the donut ones. I posted a few pages back, but I'll repeat it here, I looped the cables over my ears, that's a first step. Now, you can try and place them like you would with cable down, but it didn't do much for me in this position. With cables around my ears, I turned the RX-1 to face forward and inserted them sideways in my ears. They stay nicely in, don't need to adjust them often, every 10 mins or so with slightly less head movement than normal, but the sound is just sublime to say the least. Without pressing them I get 95% of the bass and sub this way, a ton more than MX style shell in any sort of configuration.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 20, 2017)

LOL.  How can you possibly get 95% of the bass with the kind of fit it provides?  That number doesn't sound accurate.  Even with buds of better fit, it's not possible to get 95% of the bass.  Also sound stage depends on the seal, and this type of fit(if you can call it that) creates a mid hump.


----------



## springbay

I got a delivery last Wednesday


Spoiler: all




 



I wanted to try them out a bit before posting.

First I tried the NICEHCK MX500 for commuting, and was very impressed. To me they are tons more fun than the Vidos and with great build quality. I strongly recommend them.


Spoiler: NICEHCK MX500







I got my second JAZZ R7.0 because I loved the first unit. This second I changed the opamp to a Burson V5i-D. I can't say that the change of opamp was an over all upgrade with all buds, but the pairing with Seahf LD-3.0 320 was super fantastic.


Spoiler: JAZZ R7.0







Finally the K600 and K300 Samsara. I recently got the K300 Pro and was stunned by the price/performance ratio. Especially paired with the JAZZ R7.0. And the K's Earphone 500 have been my goto buds during the last year. So naturally I had to get both of these. The K600 sound good and everything, but are perhaps not that much of an upgrade to the K500. To be honest they have not gotten that much ear time because the K300 Samsara are just marvelous and I can't stop listening to them. Much like the K300 Pro, the K300 Samsara are a perfect match with the JAZZ R7.0. The difference being, the K300 Samsara are moving straight in to my top 3 buds overtaking the K500 and being on par with CampFred 2.


Spoiler: K600 and K300 Samsara


----------



## vladstef (Aug 20, 2017)

Hm, perhaps you have a shape of ears that is just limiting for earbuds, and that's fine, now you know. RX-1 really is a smaller earbud than most. I didn't put it nicely in words with my previous post, 95% of what I'd call ideal bass out of RX-1, if I pressed them really hard till it hurts I could probably get double the amount but then you have a terrible sound experience as a whole. Sound stage is already average for RX-1, average for open back headphone, but it's a good compromise between stage and imaging so that they feel spacious and not unnaturally wide.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 20, 2017)

Ok, I'll see what happens over time, if it does sound that great as you say.  You're probably meaning upper bass, low bass is difficult.

earphone sense of ambiance depends on some bass, which require some decent seal.  This type of fit rids of the ambiance.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 20, 2017)

vladstef said:


> Hm, perhaps you have a shape of ears that is just limiting for earbuds, and that's fine, now you know. RX-1 really is a smaller earbud than most. I didn't put it nicely in words with my previous post, 95% of what I'd call ideal bass out of RX-1, if I pressed them really hard till it hurts I could probably get double the amount but then you have a terrible sound experience as a whole. Sound stage is already average for RX-1, average for open back headphone, but it's a good compromise between stage and imaging so that they feel spacious and not unnaturally wide.


Apologies.  I tried the foam cover again, and they provide the friction to get a better fit, and I believe the foam provides enough padding to seal the gaps.  Next time, I will reach for the foam first.  Call me a newb earbudder. LOL.

Sounds much better!


----------



## cigarello

Anyone know if NiceCHK on aliexpress has the Zishan z2 where you can change the opamps?


----------



## Makahl

cigarello said:


> Anyone know if NiceCHK on aliexpress has the Zishan z2 where you can change the opamps?



Did you try sending a message to them on Aliexpress?


----------



## SilverEars

Initial listen of Auglamour RX-1 sounds pretty good with foam seal on them.

I'm just surprised the foam had this much of an effect, it does sound correct with the foam seal.


----------



## vladstef

Some experimenting is needed with earbuds, just like we all did with our first pairs of IEMs. I wish I could say that headphones require less of experimenting, but even with headphones there is a question of ear pads, headphone position relative to your particular ears etc. It's just the nature of putting anything mechanical on our bodies, there are fitting issues to be dealt with. Try violins with Auglamour, Austin Wintory - I was Born for This for example, and push the volume more than you usually do, it's a very special experience with RX-1 and you really do feel the power of it all. Sometimes, for shorter listening sessions, I hold them with my hands just to extract that last drop of musical bliss out of them and it is just worth it.


----------



## snip3r77

SilverEars said:


> Initial listen of Auglamour RX-1 sounds pretty good with foam seal on them.
> 
> I'm just surprised the foam had this much of an effect, it does sound correct with the foam seal.


What is foam seal?


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 20, 2017)

I'll try  those violins out.  I usually listen to the FLAC version of the Christian McBride and listen in for when the strings are brushed, and tune in for the nuances(to see much of it I can make out, how much info there is to the sound).

I also listen into Diana Krall's vocals, and see how much details and definition there are.



They are smart to include the foam with hole in the middle as the foam seems to recess the treble slightly.  But, it does sound wide, and good even frequency response with great mids.  Vocals are great.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 20, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> What is foam seal?


Just the foam covering that goes over the speakers of the buds.  It comes with the earbuds.

It has the padding to seal some gaps between the ear canal and the buds.


----------



## snip3r77

SilverEars said:


> Just the foam covering that goes over the speakers of the buds.  It comes with the earbuds.


I see you have a zs5. How does it sound compared to an earbud?


----------



## kvad

springbay said:


> Finally the K600 and K300 Samsara. I recently got the K300 Pro and was stunned by the price/performance ratio. Especially paired with the JAZZ R7.0. And the K's Earphone 500 have been my goto buds during the last year. So naturally I had to get both of these. The K600 sound good and everything, but are perhaps not that much of an upgrade to the K500. To be honest they have not gotten that much ear time because the K300 Samsara are just marvelous and I can't stop listening to them. Much like the K300 Pro, the K300 Samsara are a perfect match with the JAZZ R7.0. The difference being, the K300 Samsara are moving straight in to my top 3 buds overtaking the K500 and being on par with CampFred 2.



Great to see impressions on the new K's stuff! Like you I've had the K500 as one of my favorites for quite some time.
Is the Samsara a large step up from the K500? Same signature, just better?
Would the K300 Pro (since the price on that one is a but easier on the wallet) still be worthwhile even if one has the K500?


----------



## vladstef

snip3r77 said:


> I see you have a zs5. How does it sound compared to an earbud?


I know the question wasn't directed at me, but I have ZS5, Vido and Auglamour earbuds so I'll try to give you an answer.
Earbuds just sound better, if you look at the sound as a whole. Yes, ZS5 extends better due to IEM form factor and I would prefer them on the go for the isolation, but listen to any modern earbud and you get that ZS5 doesn't reproduce music properly, it just sounds wrong in a way - the balance, mids, the way the sound is presented (sound stage and imaging) - everything sounds thinner and more artificial on ZS5s (I agree that ZS5 is among the best iems <50$ and I use them regularly on the go). Put ZS5s in my ears and I will enjoy them and praise them, put Auglamour and I am in heaven, you see how the 2 can't really compare. Earbuds are more like open back headphones, but the pros of a portable form factor gets negated by sound leaking and no isolation. I see them as best value by a wide margin in terms of sound quality for listening at home, but I haven't heard more expensive earbuds, things get messier the more you pay for them in terms of value.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 20, 2017)

I think the RX-1 struggles a bit with electronic genre(this is sometimes more of a case for single dynamics).  I personally think the cross-overs on the ZS5 separates the sound to provide more clarity.  Perhaps you are into certain genres that the dynamic drivers do well in, such as violin for example.  I think if you have a track that focuses mainly on a specific instrument I think a single driver dynamic probably has better performance and perhaps more natural sound?  For well recorded music, I did notice that ZS5 acted weird, it doesn't resolve that well, and sound becomes smoothed or abstracted out in clumps.  That doesn't seem to be the problem with the RX-1.  RX-1 does have good sense of wide space, and ZS5's sense of space is different since sounds are more separated out, but the RX-1 sounds are even across the space.  It does sound more realistic, and more textures to the sound.

I think for certain tracks ZS5 does well, but it's for electronic genre, and sounds fun.  Clarity, dynamics, and quantity of bass is it's strengths, but resolution is not.  If you are not into electronic genre, and listen to mostly audiophile tracks that are well recorded, classical, and vocals with lots of nuances, the RX-1 is the better choice.

Earbuds, at least with the RX-1, for recordings with wide stage, sound does get opened up considerably.


----------



## mochill

SilverEars said:


> I think the RX-1 struggles a bit with electronic genre(this is sometimes more of a case for single dynamics).  I personally think the cross-overs on the ZS5 separates the sound to provide more clarity.  Perhaps you are into certain genres that the dynamic drivers do well in, such as violin for example.  I think if you have a track that focuses mainly on a specific instrument I think a single driver dynamic probably has better performance and perhaps more natural sound?  For well recorded music, I did notice that ZS5 acted weird, it doesn't resolve that well, and sound becomes smoothed or abstracted out in clumps.  That doesn't seem to be the problem with the RX-1.  RX-1 does have good sense of wide space, and ZS5's sense of space is different since sounds are more separated out, but the RX-1 sounds are even across the space.  It does sound more realistic, and more textures to the sound.
> 
> I think for certain tracks ZS5 does well, but it's for electronic genre, and sounds fun.  Clarity, dynamics, and quantity of bass is it's strengths, but resolution is not.  If you are not into electronic genre, and listen to mostly audiophile tracks that are well recorded, classical, and vocals with lots of nuances, the RX-1 is the better choice.
> 
> Earbuds, at least with the RX-1, for recordings with wide stage, sound does get opened up considerably.


Gr07x doesn't struggle


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 20, 2017)

Sorry, stuggle isn't a precise way to put it, it doesn't do it as dynamically and clearly with separation as the ZS5. Electronic genre isn't like certain genre like jazz or classical(I think these genres separate strengths of different types of earphones).  Electronic can sometimes be highly congested.

I'm listening to RX-1 orchestra type music in a large space. And I got to say wow. It's very spacious sounding.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 20, 2017)

These(RX-1) just hit me.  It's transparent.  Throw in a high quality recording with large space, it sounds very realistic.  It's spacial output is amazing.

Ok, just realized one of the strengths of earbuds.  Sound stage.


----------



## vladstef

SilverEars said:


> These(RX-1) just hit me.  It's transparent.  Throw in a high quality recording with large space, it sounds very realistic.  It's spacial output is amazing.
> 
> Ok, just realized one of the strengths of earbuds.  Sound stage.


On RX-1, things don't go wildly far away, but it's an open sound and instrument positioning is spot on, the whole space is very much filled. In fact, I'd say that some IEMs around 20$ (KZ ZS5) can produce instruments that are further away from you, but it still doesn't sound as open and realistic.


----------



## golov17

cigarello said:


> Anyone know if NiceCHK on aliexpress has the Zishan z2 where you can change the opamps?


Newest Zishan Z2 DIY MP3 HIFI DSD Professional MP3 HIFI Music Player Support Headphone Amplifier DAC AK4490 Z1 Upgrade Version
http://s.aliexpress.com/UnmA7V7r


----------



## SilverEars

vladstef said:


> On RX-1, things don't go wildly far away, but it's an open sound and instrument positioning is spot on, the whole space is very much filled. In fact, I'd say that some IEMs around 20$ (KZ ZS5) can produce instruments that are further away from you, but it still doesn't sound as open and realistic.


IME, I think RX-1 buds outputs the largest sound stage I've heard for earphones, and I thought I've heard large sound stage already.  I guess nothing beats huge dynamic drivers for that.


----------



## redkingjoe

cigarello said:


> Don't know if silver king or not but the housing is made of silver and it costs $428 SGD.


Yes it is silver king!


----------



## redkingjoe

MLTKSHHBT said:


> AHA no wonder Wong only quoted his 3 models to me and left out the King! Out of goodwill not to frighten me off I guess...
> There first 3 models are with same driver, only difference is cable, and according to the maker the higher priced silver sounds fuller...those who do not believe by changing cable would change the sound of their iem might have doubt to pay the extra bucks, though I still grabbed the silver at the end.
> If the King is using the same driver, only other variables are the shell and the cable, but can it justify the double of the price of the standard sliver?
> I'm actually quite interested and curious about the CA buds, with USD100 increase from one model to another. With limited infos, it's kind of difficult to choose which one.
> How much better of the CAX black vs the Campfred 2?





Silver king has a bigger brother...S$528!!!!!


----------



## redkingjoe

SilverEars said:


> At least if these were purposefully sized to have more of a situated fit for particular sound I can understand because sometimes iems can sound better with loose fit, and has more of stage and airyness created from it, but it is not the case for these.  It sounds like typical buds sound you get from lack of seal.
> 
> From what I notice, earbud fits are disadvantageous.  Fit is very very important!  I can't even get these to stay in place properly.
> 
> Anyway I already suspected this, and I made the wrong decision to believe yall here.  Bad judgement on my part.



The fit is always an issue to me too. 

Going try all these foams out latter to see if the fit can be better!


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 20, 2017)

Please ignore those posts and don't  bring them up ever again. LOL.

If you apply the foam covering over the buds they are fine, at least for the RX-1, there are no sound issues caused by gaps(although not as highly isolating like the iems) as you'd expect of earbuds as the foam fills that space, and sounds correct, and you do get ambiance, weight of the sounds like if sealed(but, not isolated of course, a bit open).  Of course you'd suffer from lack of very low-end bass, but like was mention majority of the sound spectrum is pushed out.  Try the RX-1 if you don't believe me.

I'm thinking the open-ness and the size of the driver is causing such a significant spacialness.  I wonder if there is a way to seal more(to the point of isolation like iems), and wonder if that would be an improvement?


----------



## MLTKSHHBT

redkingjoe said:


> Silver king has a bigger brother...S$528!!!!!


So using the same 300ohm driver with different housing and cable for an enormous price hike from SGD128?
These diy-ers are getting ridiculously ambitious, competing for higher price instead of making it more affordable of price/performance ratio for we consumers!


----------



## redkingjoe

MLTKSHHBT said:


> So using the same 300ohm driver with different housing and cable for an enormous price hike from SGD128?
> These diy-ers are getting ridiculously ambitious, competing for higher price instead of making it more affordable of price/performance ratio for we consumers!



Mr. WOng is truly a nice guy. He only charged the cost difference, basically. Also, he usually recommends the S$1xx good price model to ppl. 

As an audiophile, I can understand his needs to unleash the full potential of his designs by keep upgrading the materials. It's his hobby to play with DIY. IT doesn't make sense for an audiophile to think about downgrading.

I have a Dita truth iem with a list price of us$999. The lower model dita answer sells at us$649. The price difference is us$350 but the only difference between the two is an upgraded cable.


----------



## springbay

kvad said:


> Great to see impressions on the new K's stuff! Like you I've had the K500 as one of my favorites for quite some time.
> Is the Samsara a large step up from the K500? Same signature, just better?
> Would the K300 Pro (since the price on that one is a but easier on the wallet) still be worthwhile even if one has the K500?



I think we always should be careful giving others recommendations on what to buy. Different sources, will make buds sound different for different users. Even different foams will change the perception from user to user. And don't get me started on those that EQ their gear. I never EQ, but roll foams and play around with sources a bit, and changing the opamps on my Jazz 7.0's will give my buds a quite different sound.

I have to admit that I'm a bud hoarder. I don't regret buying the K300 Pro one bit. They don't really fill a gap in my collection. They just sound very impressive at that low price point, but still lack comparing to the K500.

The Samsara on the other hand is an upgrade or at least an impressive side grade to the K500 in my collection.
The K500's forte is the way they handle low frequencies. I've dubbed them the best bass buds before. Not in quantity, but in quality.
The Samsara handles bass in a similar way like the K500 but extends and handles the upper frequencies in a much more pleasing manner. It's like the K500 and Blox 320 had a love child that inherited the best genes from both of the parents.
The upper frequencies sound kind of harsh and grainy on the K500 and K300 Pro in comparison with the Samsara. Still I'm sure people that enjoy dark sounding buds like TY Hi-Z HP650 or Zen 2.0 will feel the Samsara suffer from sibilance on certain tracks.
Also the cable on the Samsara both look and feel fantastic. Probably my new favourite bud cable.
To sum it up. People that love the K500 will probably enjoy the Samsara as much as I do. Others that fear any frequencies that can cause sibilance, will probably be better of with dark sounding buds.


----------



## cigarello

golov17 said:


> Newest Zishan Z2 DIY MP3 HIFI DSD Professional MP3 HIFI Music Player Support Headphone Amplifier DAC AK4490 Z1 Upgrade Version
> http://s.aliexpress.com/UnmA7V7r



Thanks Golov,

Do you know if this one allows for opamps to change? I hear some ali sellers make it so the Z2 cannot change the opamp?


----------



## golov17

cigarello said:


> Thanks Golov,
> 
> Do you know if this one allows for opamps to change? I hear some ali sellers make it so the Z2 cannot change the opamp?


Read latest feedback


----------



## golov17

http://s.aliexpress.com/zQVNBRvQ
Very good DIY PK1 from Jim NiceHCK, recommended. 32 Ohm


----------



## jogawag

golov17 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/zQVNBRvQ
> Very good DIY PK1 from Jim NiceHCK, recommended. 32 Ohm



Does this DIY PK1 sound like DIY emx500?


----------



## cigarello

golov17 said:


> Read latest feedback



I don't see how this has anything to do with my question? Although that is definitely concerning...


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 21, 2017)

springbay said:


> I think we always should be careful giving others recommendations on what to buy. Different sources, will make buds sound different for different users. Even different foams will change the perception from user to user. And don't get me started on those that EQ their gear. I never EQ, but roll foams and play around with sources a bit, and changing the opamps on my Jazz 7.0's will give my buds a quite different sound.
> 
> I have to admit that I'm a bud hoarder. I don't regret buying the K300 Pro one bit. They don't really fill a gap in my collection. They just sound very impressive at that low price point, but still lack comparing to the K500.
> 
> ...


Is there a comprehensive writeup on all the possibilities of foams or any other types of covering for improving sonic qualities of buds?

I'm new to earbuds and do not know of the possibilities.

The biggest downside for buds(or open headphones) is lack of isolation, ambiant noise do account for drowning minute details.


----------



## snip3r77

SilverEars said:


> Is there a comprehensive writeup on all the possibilities of foams or any other types of covering for improving sonic qualities of buds?
> 
> I'm new to earbuds and do not know of the possibilities.
> 
> The biggest downside for buds(or open headphones) is lack of isolation, ambiant noise do account for drowning minute details.



So it's like open back headphones, more for home use and not for commuting ?


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 21, 2017)

Earbuds has traditionally been used for on the go until iems became more of a norm.

iems has the advantages for isolation if you are sitting in public transport, not requiring suround awareness, but highly isolating iems can be dangerous if too isolated to the point of not being aware of your surpundings.

Personally, I prefer something a bit more isolating and can still make out my suroundings as buds seems a bit open for usage in heavy ambiant noise outdoors.

I think it's ok for on the go, but we shouldn't expect quality sound equal to sitting in a quiet room.

To answer your question, not as open as openback, but plenty enough to let the noise in if around.

I'd recommend for home use if sound quality is of concern.


----------



## golov17

jogawag said:


> Does this DIY PK1 sound like DIY emx500?


No, other sig (Docomo, Yuin pk2-3)


----------



## cqtek

golov17 said:


> No, other sig (Docomo, Yuin pk2-3)



Has DIY PK1 from Jim NiceHCK good bass or is less bassy than EMX500 or Vido? I like bass sound from both models (I know they are different but bass quality and quantity are enough for me) but I'm searching in PK1 shell.


----------



## golov17

cqtek said:


> Has DIY PK1 from Jim NiceHCK good bass or is less bassy than EMX500 or Vido? I like bass sound from both models (I know they are different but bass quality and quantity are enough for me) but I'm searching in PK1 shell.


Slightly smaller than Docomo, but faster enough bass


----------



## ClieOS

南飞科技 QY-888 (previously known as QingYin 磬音坊)
Walnut E1


----------



## ctaxxxx

SilverEars said:


> Is there a comprehensive writeup on all the possibilities of foams or any other types of covering for improving sonic qualities of buds?



From my experience: (from thinnest to thickest - latter increases in bass at the cost of air and soundstage)

No foams _(too much bass drop off...)_
Monk+ thin foams _(highly recommend. buy an EX pack from VE)_
Hiegi donut foams _(thinner and larger hole than generic donuts. easiest to obtain too: Amazon.com)_
generic thick foams _(comes with every earbud)_
2x double foams _(not a fan of this one. diverges too much from the original intended sound imo)_


----------



## SilverEars

Yeah, I need donut holes that are larger.  It does get shifted around when trying keep the buds in place.  RX-1 comes with donut holes, but it may not be the largest opening.

It would be better if there is way to keep the opening of the hole consistant.


----------



## golov17

SilverEars said:


> Yeah, I need donut holes that are larger.  It does get shifted around when trying keep the buds in place.  RX-1 comes with donut holes, but it may not be the largest opening.
> 
> It would be better if there is way to keep the opening of the hole consistant.


Hiegi 
 
MP foams


----------



## ClieOS

Sometime it is not about having one bigger hole, but having more smaller holes in the right places.



ClieOS said:


> Those who have Edimun V3 might have noticed that it comes with customized red foam with 4 smaller holes. That gives it more or less a donut foam quality (that won't over-dampen treble) but without the downside of a looser fit which tends to make dunut foam falls out easily. While donut foam can be a life saver for certain earbuds from time to time, it isn't particularly suitable for MX500 style front cover (VE's, BugGuy's, etc) as this kind of cover don't have any sound vents near the center, but located closer to the outer edge - so they still get somewhat over dampened even with donut foam. Inspired by the Edimun V3 foam pad, I did some modification of my own to create the multi-holes foam pad that will work better with MX500 style earbuds. The holes are located closer to the edge and thus will expose some sound vents for more treble. It also has the upside of getting a tighter fit than donut foam. I won't say it is the perfect solution for every earbuds, but it does work better than donut foam on many occasion.
> 
> 
> Get yourself a leather belt hole puncher and punch the foam away - you won't actually punch a hole with the puncher, but it will leave a mark on the foam that you can tear away with your fingers easily. Push the foam slightly inward when punching and the hole will be closer to the edge - but don't get too close to the edge though, as you will want to leave around 3~4mm of space.
> ...


----------



## golov17

Yeah


----------



## cqtek

golov17 said:


> Slightly smaller than Docomo, but faster enough bass



Thank you for your words.
In your opinion, what is the earbuds with the best bass response (and presence) with the Yuin PK shell?


----------



## jogawag

golov17 said:


> Slightly smaller than Docomo, but faster enough bass


Thanks Golov.
I bought HCK DIY PK1!


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi (Aug 21, 2017)

Hello Everyone, I've been out of the loop for awhile and haven't been following the Thread. Hoping you guys can throw some suggestions for earbuds.

I'm looking for some Earbuds, Like something Fun & can listen to for long period of time. I'm pretty open & willing to explore as long as it isn't Harsh. The Only Music genres I don't listen to is Country, Rap, Hip-Hop, & Metal.

If you guys can recommend some of your Must-Have/Own/Top3 in these particular Price Range that'll be awesome & much appreciated!


Under $25 -
Under $50 -
Under $150 -
Thanks!


----------



## Frederick Wang

ClieOS said:


> 南飞科技 QY-888 (previously known as QingYin 磬音坊)
> Walnut E1



How is QY-888? It looks very interesting.


----------



## golov17

cqtek said:


> Thank you for your words.
> In your opinion, what is the earbuds with the best bass response (and presence) with the Yuin PK shell?


http://s.aliexpress.com/zU3ANzAZ
Ver.2


----------



## activatorfly

golov17 said:


> 127usd
> Newest Rose Masya Wooden Face Panel Earbud Flat Head Earphone Double Dynamic Earbud HIFI Monitor Earbud Earphone With 2Pin Cable
> http://s.aliexpress.com/36fmI3ua


Is there any difference in sound signature between the cheaper pairs of these & the Wooden Face Panel version? I imagine the included upgrade cable increases expense & imaging?


----------



## golov17

Btw, AUGLAMOUR RX-1 with mic
http://s.aliexpress.com/3IFjqMjE


----------



## golov17

activatorfly said:


> Is there any difference in sound signature between the cheaper pairs of these & the Wooden Face Panel version? I imagine the included upgrade cable increases expense & imaging?


Hmm.. Depends on the front panel ..
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1233#post-13311963


----------



## activatorfly

golov17 said:


> Hmm.. Depends on the front panel ..
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1233#post-13311963


It seems that the original black ($109) version sounds better? (i.e. without wooden panel/upgrade cable.) I mainly listen to electronica hence looking for earbuds with a huge sound-stage to add to my growing collection...Thanks!


----------



## cqtek (Aug 21, 2017)

golov17 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/zU3ANzAZ
> Ver.2



Better impossible 
Added to my wishlist (Ver.2).
Thanks again.


----------



## activatorfly

cqtek said:


> Better impossible
> Added to my wishlist (Ver.2).
> Thanks again.


They're my latest addition....excellent imo!


----------



## golov17

Интересно..
http://rinchoi.blogspot.ru/2013/07/brookstone-clear-dual-drive-radius-hp.html?m=1


----------



## Danneq

SilverEars said:


> IME, I think RX-1 buds outputs the largest sound stage I've heard for earphones, and I thought I've heard large sound stage already.  I guess nothing beats huge dynamic drivers for that.



Haha! I sold my RX-1 because I thought they sounded too confined and congested. I've been an earbud nut the last 9-10 years and soundstage is the main reason I love earbuds. Great that you love earbuds. Keep exploring the earbud world, mate!


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 21, 2017)

golov17 said:


> Интересно..
> http://rinchoi.blogspot.ru/2013/07/brookstone-clear-dual-drive-radius-hp.html?m=1


So, the apertures behind the metal guards are for treble frequencies?  It's not noticible on my RX-1.  I dunno where it's at and might be covered with the donuts.

I'm presuming this is typical earbud deaign element?


----------



## golov17 (Aug 21, 2017)

SilverEars said:


> So, the apertures behind the metal guards are for treble frequencies?  It's not noticible on my RX-1.  I dunno where it's at and might be covered with the donuts.
> 
> I'm presuming this is typical earbud deaign element?


15.4mm speaker unit double unit hifi moving coil Tri-band equalization 1pair
http://s.aliexpress.com/naeUNzE7
DIY Handmade PHEB01 24ohm Hi-Fi DDM Dual Diaphragm Matrix Dynamic High Fidelity Earphone Earbuds
http://s.aliexpress.com/3M3eeaIj


----------



## DBaldock9

golov17 said:


> 15.4mm speaker unit double unit hifi moving coil Tri-band equalization 1pair
> http://s.aliexpress.com/naeUNzE7
> DIY Handmade PHEB01 24ohm Hi-Fi DDM Dual Diaphragm Matrix Dynamic High Fidelity Earphone Earbuds
> http://s.aliexpress.com/3M3eeaIj



I was listening this weekend to the "15.4mm speaker unit double unit hifi moving coil Tri-band equalization" drivers I placed in MX760 shells.  Connected to my iFi Micro iDSD, with the XBass & 3D Holographic enabled, those drivers actually have a decent amount of Bass impact - more than when using them with a DAP.

The set of "DIY Handmade PHEB01 24ohm Hi-Fi DDM Dual Diaphragm Matrix Dynamic High Fidelity Earphone Earbuds" that I bought last Fall, were part of the equipment I gave to my Dad - so I don't have them here to listen to & compare.


----------



## ClieOS

Frederick Wang said:


> How is QY-888? It looks very interesting.



It is actually a 3D printed shell with old Japanese's NOS driver and MMCX connector. So far it sounds pretty much like an old earbud with a rather warm and smooth sound signature. But given it is said to use an old driver, I'll give it some burn in first before making up my mind.


----------



## Saoshyant

golov17 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/zU3ANzAZ
> Ver.2





cqtek said:


> Thank you for your words.
> In your opinion, what is the earbuds with the best bass response (and presence) with the Yuin PK shell?



The best bass response using Yuin that I've personally experienced would be Uairekko's custom earbuds specifically requesting a bassy signature.  I haven't heard the new version of the DIY PK2, but own the original version, so can only speak from experience with it.


----------



## cqtek

Saoshyant said:


> The best bass response using Yuin that I've personally experienced would be Uairekko's custom earbuds specifically requesting a bassy signature.  I haven't heard the new version of the DIY PK2, but own the original version, so can only speak from experience with it.



It's easy to find/buy Uairekko's custom earbuds? I found the Facebook webpage. Are they expensive?


----------



## Saoshyant

I blind bought them as I was curious, and at the time after $12 Western Union Fees and shipping, I paid just a little over 100 for them, with neither of us really knowing how much shipping would cost, so I overpaid to be safe.  As far as buying them, you talk to him on Facebook, and he'll ask you a bunch of questions in order to build you a truly custom earbud.  I'm currently in the process of ordering another two, but Facebook decided I was getting hacked, so I'm waiting on a response from them to see if I get my account back.  All in all, I was quite pleased with the experience, but I may be considered easily pleased by some.  @nmatheis Just got some too, and I'm hoping is enjoying them.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Saoshyant said:


> The best bass response using Yuin that I've personally experienced would be Uairekko's custom earbuds specifically requesting a bassy signature.  I haven't heard the new version of the DIY PK2, but own the original version, so can only speak from experience with it.



How long did it take for your buds to finish from Uairekko? It's been two months and only the buds have been painted. I asked about a different cable, but the dude has stopped responding altogether. We haven't even got to the driver tuning yet... He sometimes won't respond for two weeks. Have no clue what's going on on his end...


----------



## Saoshyant

Hmm, mine was a couple weeks, but I think he was still relatively unknown at the time.  And he was quite quick with communication too.  Odd, and unfortunate.


----------



## cqtek (Aug 21, 2017)

Saoshyant said:


> I blind bought them as I was curious, and at the time after $12 Western Union Fees and shipping, I paid just a little over 100 for them, with neither of us really knowing how much shipping would cost, so I overpaid to be safe.  As far as buying them, you talk to him on Facebook, and he'll ask you a bunch of questions in order to build you a truly custom earbud.  I'm currently in the process of ordering another two, but Facebook decided I was getting hacked, so I'm waiting on a response from them to see if I get my account back.  All in all, I was quite pleased with the experience, but I may be considered easily pleased by some.  @nmatheis Just got some too, and I'm hoping is enjoying them.



Thank you so much for the information. Sounds a very good solution to get a personalized earbud. I will think about it. But first I will try to order the "2017 New NICEHCK DIY PK2 Ver.2" to test it.


----------



## Makahl

ctaxxxx said:


> How long did it take for your buds to finish from Uairekko? It's been two months and only the buds have been painted. I asked about a different cable, but the dude has stopped responding altogether. We haven't even got to the driver tuning yet... He sometimes won't respond for two weeks. Have no clue what's going on on his end...



Looks like Uairekko hired vapman to make their earbuds. I hope they'll solve it asap.


----------



## Saoshyant (Aug 21, 2017)

Screw it, time to add another annoyance to ignore.  And my apologies to others for my grumpiness.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Alright, let's not jump to conclusions...

Anyway, anyone know a recabling service in the US? Cause I just got AMP3 for the DX200 and it sounds AMAZING! I suddenly want to change all my earbuds to balanced now! Shame that Blur is the only balanced bud I have.


----------



## mochill

http://tritonaudiocables.com
Based in USA and is a headfi member


----------



## ctaxxxx

mochill said:


> http://tritonaudiocables.com
> Based in USA and is a headfi member



That can get pretty expensive, especially about the 3rd party cable. Maybe just my Diomnes Lvl2 first...


----------



## mochill

Quality and service is top notch


----------



## mochill

Also received the stardust today and burning them in, how much burn in was on it ctaxxxx


----------



## ctaxxxx

mochill said:


> Also received the stardust today and burning them in, how much burn in was on it ctaxxxx



A lot. They should be perfectly fine since I've had them for a while.


----------



## mochill

Still going to burn them in with taralabs Cascade burn in disk


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 22, 2017)

I have not delved into the higher price points for earbuds, but something like Auglamour RX-1 for $25 is such a great find/deal.  Sounds pretty balanced, and highs aren't aggressively forward, some sparkle on the more extended end, but overall non-fatiguing signature without being dark sounding.  I see why people have preference for buds with the dynamic drivers, which can provide that natural tonality, and it does sound more natural than of the more analytical turning of BA driver iems.  Interestingly, the mids are not dipped for the RX-1 which I've been running into with few dynamic driver iems lately(maybe more common due to iem form factor).  I don't believe it's the lack of isolation that may bury some sense of hearing more details, but I believe the clarity of the mids arn't the strongest suit for the RX-1.  The lower treble provides some support for the sound, but there are slight fuzziness to the mids and less depth for definition.  I think clarity can be looked in two faces, clarity for the highs and mids.  I think the weakness is less clarity caused by lower level definition in the mids area.

I think the highs are great(clear, and sibilance slightly reduced severity), and sense of space(great musical ambiance) is great as well.  Tracks that provides ambiance sounds pretty realistic.

For $25 fantastic price to performance ratio.  I like it a lot.

Any recommendations for well defined mids?


----------



## mochill

Shozy cygnus and stardust


----------



## snip3r77

Does the fido run all over the monk candy ?


----------



## golov17

If we talk about buds from Indonesia, I'm very impressed with WillSound32 after the burn, very good mids, and a structural excellent bass. I have never heard of such a beautiful bass (about SQ)


----------



## redkingjoe

mochill said:


> Still going to burn them in with taralabs Cascade burn in disk


The Taralabs is a great one!

I found that Densen demagic and the Xlo sweeping weep are real good.

Running Densen and xlo will improve sound quality for old earphones too. It's free on YouTube


----------



## redkingjoe

ctaxxxx said:


> That can get pretty expensive, especially about the 3rd party cable. Maybe just my Diomnes Lvl2 first...



Blur Wong might be if help! 

Why not contact him for a fee quote?

We Chinese always recommend comparing price from at least 3 places.


----------



## mochill

redkingjoe said:


> The Taralabs is a great one!
> 
> I found that Densen demagic and the Xlo sweeping weep are real good.
> 
> Running Densen and xlo will improve sound quality for old earphones too. It's free on YouTube


Looks good


----------



## chinmie

golov17 said:


> If we talk about buds from Indonesia, I'm very impressed with WillSound32 after the burn, very good mids, and a structural excellent bass. I have never heard of such a beautiful bass (about SQ)


yeess... addictive bass. the tuning is great


----------



## redkingjoe

mochill said:


> Looks good


Try it once for your old earphone!

You will be happy.

Make sure the volume is moderate.


----------



## activatorfly

golov17 said:


> If we talk about buds from Indonesia, I'm very impressed with WillSound32 after the burn, very good mids, and a structural excellent bass. I have never heard of such a beautiful bass (about SQ)


Can you recommend a supplier for these buds?..or are they only custom made in Indonesia in limited numbers?


----------



## Narayan23

golov17 said:


> If we talk about buds from Indonesia, I'm very impressed with WillSound32 after the burn, very good mids, and a structural excellent bass. I have never heard of such a beautiful bass (about SQ)



Coming from you this is high praise for these buds and I´m definitely interested, is this a facebook only business? If so I´m afraid I´ll have to pass since I don´t have an account, unless there´s any other way to contact them, I would also like to ask if the shipping charges are ok? Thanks.


----------



## gazzington

Just bought a cayin n3 with a big sd card. Am currently ripping rock/metal flacs to go on it. Anybody have a suggestion of earplugs I should look at for work and walking about


----------



## golov17 (Aug 22, 2017)

Narayan23 said:


> Coming from you this is high praise for these buds and I´m definitely interested, is this a facebook only business? If so I´m afraid I´ll have to pass since I don´t have an account, unless there´s any other way to contact them, I would also like to ask if the shipping charges are ok? Thanks.


willyjayalukito@gmail dot com


----------



## SilverEars

This sounds great out of RX-1.    This is such a great recording.


----------



## ballog (Aug 23, 2017)

ClieOS said:


> Sometime it is not about having one bigger hole, but having more smaller holes in the right places.


You mean like this.


----------



## activatorfly

gazzington said:


> Just bought a cayin n3 with a big sd card. Am currently ripping rock/metal flacs to go on it. Anybody have a suggestion of earplugs I should look at for work and walking about


DIY PK2 pair up well with the N3 imho....


----------



## kvad

springbay said:


> ... It's like the K500 and Blox 320 had a love child that inherited the best genes from both of the parents.
> The upper frequencies sound kind of harsh and grainy on the K500 and K300 Pro in comparison with the Samsara. Still I'm sure people that enjoy dark sounding buds like TY Hi-Z HP650 or Zen 2.0 will feel the Samsara suffer from sibilance on certain tracks.
> Also the cable on the Samsara both look and feel fantastic. Probably my new favourite bud cable.
> To sum it up. People that love the K500 will probably enjoy the Samsara as much as I do. Others that fear any frequencies that can cause sibilance, will probably be better of with dark sounding buds.



Thank you for the great description.
Blox 320 merged with the K500 does sound fantastic - will keep an eye on the Samsara and hope for a sale soon (the singles day sales is not that far away, is it? : )


----------



## SilverEars

Anybody play with different output impedances to hear how the sound gets better or worse?  Could be placebo, but my RX-1 sounds better out of my laptop output(which I doubt it is low output impedance close to 0).


----------



## gc335

I received my EMX500 the other day.  Even out of the box it sets my new standard for budget buds.  Wow!


----------



## activatorfly

gc335 said:


> I received my EMX500 the other day.  Even out of the box it sets my new standard for budget buds.  Wow!


Got mine today along with a Z2...they definitely rival PK2 buds!


----------



## gc335

I was running it out of my iPhone and then my Jotunheim. So impressed!  I think I actually received the PK2 in trade for some other stuff.  I'll need to dig them out and do some comparison.


----------



## activatorfly

gc335 said:


> I was running it out of my iPhone and then my Jotunheim. So impressed!  I think I actually received the PK2 in trade for some other stuff.  I'll need to dig them out and do some comparison.


I prefer PK2 as the mids sound more refined...however the EMX500 seem to handle bass better....


----------



## Blackground (Aug 23, 2017)

ctaxxxx said:


> That can get pretty expensive, especially about the 3rd party cable. Maybe just my Diomnes Lvl2 first...


I 2nd this. David recabled my zen 2.0 with pure silver cables(white) and I couldn't be happier with the results. Super quick turn around, granted I live 20 min away from him.


----------



## Saoshyant

So, some part of me wonders if perhaps my feelings of the Yinman 600 being a little boring had to do with properly driving.  Well, as the ifi micro idsd black label is on sale again, I should have more than enough juice when it arrives for this to be a non-issue in the future for any difficult to drive buds I may acquire.  I'll certainly enjoy having a proper basshead amp to accidentally destroy some of my buds in the process of seeing what they can handle.


----------



## activatorfly

gc335 said:


> I was running it out of my iPhone and then my Jotunheim. So impressed!  I think I actually received the PK2 in trade for some other stuff.  I'll need to dig them out and do some comparison.


How do you rate Hi-Z 150S (balanced)? I've not yet explored increasing the sound-stage/imaging with balanced gear. The Hi-Z 150S can handle more amp'ing but can at times be harsh /sibilant, however I've only had them a week so they probably need more burn in....


----------



## mochill

Blackground said:


> I 2nd this. David recabled my zen 2.0 with pure silver cables(white) and I couldn't be happier with the results. Super quick turn around, granted I live 20 min away from him.


That looks great


----------



## Blackground

mochill said:


> That looks great



He did a great job! Why spend $999.00 on the white version when I can just recable for a fraction of the price lol.


----------



## mochill

Blackground said:


> He did a great job! Why spend $999.00 on the white version when I can just recable for a fraction of the price lol.


True^_^


----------



## jogawag (Aug 24, 2017)

The earbuds attached to the old Transcend MP3 player seems to be the OEM version of the AKG K312P (both made by Foster).
I have both earbuds and I hear the almost same sound when compared.
The AKG K312P has output with greater bass than the K314P and well balanced AKG sound.

(However, the attached Earbuds seems to be the things of hit or miss.
One of the two used second purchased was hit. The other is miss which treble is not clear. )


----------



## redkingjoe

SilverEars said:


> Anybody play with different output impedances to hear how the sound gets better or worse?  Could be placebo, but my RX-1 sounds better out of my laptop output(which I doubt it is low output impedance close to 0).



Smart guy! For audiophile, Impedance matching is a big business in good sound! Having said that, RX-1 should sound even better if you get a better source, better dac and better amp. That is an even bigger business.


----------



## snip3r77

redkingjoe said:


> Smart guy! For audiophile, Impedance matching is a big business in good sound! Having said that, RX-1 should sound even better if you get a better source, better dac and better amp. That is an even bigger business.



I thought having a low impedance would provide a good damping factor? Recommended at least 8 and above.


----------



## redkingjoe

Blackground said:


> I 2nd this. David recabled my zen 2.0 with pure silver cables(white) and I couldn't be happier with the results. Super quick turn around, granted I live 20 min away from him.



Beautiful.

Lovely! 

How's the sound after-mod? 

Did u upgrade to a better plug?


----------



## gc335

activatorfly said:


> How do you rate Hi-Z 150S (balanced)? I've not yet explored increasing the sound-stage/imaging with balanced gear. The Hi-Z 150S can handle more amp'ing but can at times be harsh /sibilant, however I've only had them a week so they probably need more burn in....


I don't have my balanced dap right now but I can try out the difference. I have the DX200 and my el-8cs are way better out of the balanced output. 

I'm very impressed with the balanced 150s right now.


----------



## rkw (Aug 24, 2017)

Saoshyant said:


> So, some part of me wonders if perhaps my feelings of the Yinman 600 being a little boring had to do with properly driving.


That may be true. The Yinman 600 needs lots of power. I have Sennheiser HD650 and Yinman 600, both with balanced cables. On my Jotunheim (plenty of power, especially its balanced output), I play them at nearly the same volume control setting. For other earbuds, I have to turn down the volume much lower. So the Yinman 600 needs as much power as a full size headphone known for being power hungry.


----------



## springbay

kvad said:


> Thank you for the great description.
> Blox 320 merged with the K500 does sound fantastic - will keep an eye on the Samsara and hope for a sale soon (the singles day sales is not that far away, is it? : )



Only one minor thing though 
I was so totally smitten by the Samsara, that I did not give K600 enough time before posting initial impressions. Now they have endured some rough EDM burn in, and boy they do sound exceptionally good as well, with quite cleaner extension in the high frequencies than the K500, while still keeping that distinct bass response.
Right now I'm not certain which of the buds I should recommend to K500 lovers. If you are planning on doing a singles day purchase, please PM when we are closer to the date, and I'll give a further update. 
Let this be a lesson to my self to never post impressions before I've given them the time they deserve...


----------



## theoutsider

New Qian 69 surfaced. I think it looks very handsome.


----------



## ricesteam

springbay said:


> Only one minor thing though
> I was so totally smitten by the Samsara, that I did not give K600 enough time before posting initial impressions. Now they have endured some rough EDM burn in, and boy they do sound exceptionally good as well, with quite cleaner extension in the high frequencies than the K500, while still keeping that distinct bass response.
> Right now I'm not certain which of the buds I should recommend to K500 lovers. If you are planning on doing a singles day purchase, please PM when we are closer to the date, and I'll give a further update.
> Let this be a lesson to my self to never post impressions before I've given them the time they deserve...



Hmm, I am curious about the K's 600. Judging from the pictures, it looks like it's using the same cable as the EMX 500. Unfortunately, I don't like the look and feel of that cable.


----------



## activatorfly

ricesteam said:


> Hmm, I am curious about the K's 600. Judging from the pictures, it looks like it's using the same cable as the EMX 500. Unfortunately, I don't like the look and feel of that cable.


I received the EMX 500 yesterday, I agree the cable looks & feels cheap/springy. PK2  are better imo, both the cable & sound signature.....


----------



## Narayan23

cursing said:


> New Qian 69 surfaced. I think it looks very handsome.



It looks so handsome I´d like one of my sisters to marry it 
Let´s hope it sounds as good as it looks.


----------



## theoutsider

Narayan23 said:


> It looks so handsome I´d like one of my sisters to marry it
> Let´s hope it sounds as good as it looks.


Apparently someone had it since last year. It is not a new release as claimed by the seller.


----------



## gc335

My Blur 300 Ohm just arrived.  Can't wait to try them!


----------



## springbay

ricesteam said:


> Hmm, I am curious about the K's 600. Judging from the pictures, it looks like it's using the same cable as the EMX 500. Unfortunately, I don't like the look and feel of that cable.



I agree that the cable don't look good on the K600 compared to K's nicest cables. I don't have the EMX 500 but I guess it's similar to the NICEHCK MX500. The K600 cable is far more soft and limber than the MX500 cable. They look similar on potato pictures like mine, but are actually quite different when you feel them.




Bonus pics:


Spoiler: K300 Samsara vs K500 v2 cable









Spoiler: Top: Samsara, K500 v2 cable. Bottom: K600, K300 Pro


----------



## Blackground

redkingjoe said:


> Beautiful.
> 
> Lovely!
> 
> ...


Yeah i did, it is an eidolic barrel with a matching cable splitter. Too be honest I didn't listen to them a whole lot before recabling. I can definitely tell the mids changed for the better, i am still experimenting a little with foam. I will have more impressions the more I listen.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 24, 2017)

Some thoughts regarding what I've been experiencing with earbuds as I was primarily an iem guy, but treading the earbud space.  My comments will be regarding the Auglamour RX-1 as that is the only real good earbud I own currently.

Although the RX-1 speakers are sized larger than what I've expected of typical buds from ipods or Sansa players, and had difficulty figuring out how to keep them in place, after discovering that foam keeps them in my ear was a bit of an awakening as previous buds I've tried were not sized so large like the RX-1, but about ibuds size and worked find with the rubber ring to keep them in place.  They do keep place, and doesn't fall off so easily as I was expecting.  I can walk with them without them falling off.  I think the outer area where the buds are placed has streched, and the RX-1 fits better now.

As far as isolation.  As long as the noise level isn't so high, listening to them outside works well.  As somebody noted, iems can be too isolating, but what I notice with buds is, it seems more natural not to be so isolating( I guess naturalness comes from our reality having some noise level in the ambiance as we tune into music).  If one wan't noise reduction, you just find a quiet area to listen to them.  It does isolate just enough if anybody is concerned with that.  It's better than you'd expect.

Something about earbuds sound seems like sound is free(in a sense of getting more open sound toward speakers), I guess iems insertion and suction takes away from that experience in a tactile sense.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Oh, hi.  I'm new here and this is my setup.






--


----------



## BoomBap08

Hi, guys! So here's the deal.

I just bought three buds: the Aglamour rx1, Hi-Z 150 (1st ver.), and the Nicehck diy pk2. While I love the mids of the rx1, its insufficient bass and treble response got me hooked up to the pk2's sig. But just the other night, as I was switching between the 150 and the pk2, I found that the pk2 is definitely lacking in body presentation of instruments especially in jazz and acoustic songs though I still find its mids good.

Now, I want to ask y'all if the Music Maker/Toneking Tomahawk will fit the bill of what I'm looking for. A midcentric bud with good timbre, like that of the Hi-Z 150, and forward vocals, good imaging, and instrument separation similar to that of the nicehck pk2?


----------



## Makahl (Aug 24, 2017)

Hey @ClieOS, could you please share some impressions about the NiceHCK DIY Graphene?


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 24, 2017)

BoomBap08 said:


> Hi, guys! So here's the deal.
> 
> I just bought three buds: the Aglamour rx1, Hi-Z 150 (1st ver.), and the Nicehck diy pk2. While I love the mids of the rx1, its insufficient bass and treble response got me hooked up to the pk2's sig. But just the other night, as I was switching between the 150 and the pk2, I found that the pk2 is definitely lacking in body presentation of instruments especially in jazz and acoustic songs though I still find its mids good.
> 
> Now, I want to ask y'all if the Music Maker/Toneking Tomahawk will fit the bill of what I'm looking for. A midcentric bud with good timbre, like that of the Hi-Z 150, and forward vocals, good imaging, and instrument separation similar to that of the nicehck pk2?


I thought the treble was sufficient and it sounds pretty balanced besides the lack of sub-bass, but I thought the bass was still pretty sufficient as well.  I think the mids can be improved a bit in terms of clarity and separation even though mids are pretty good with them(RX-1).

The problem I face with a lot of the buds I get recommended is they are not available on Amazon.  It takes longer than I wish to wait to get it shipped, and it's hard for me to trust international shipments not to go wrong.  Amazon is most reliable for  me.

Which would you say has the best clarity, sound stage, and resolution?

Also, where are people purchasing all these unique earbuds from?  Aliexpress?  Which is the most reputable dealer for purchase a lot of these recommended earbuds?


----------



## noknok23

aliexpress is super safe, never had any issues with earbuds ordered from there.


----------



## HungryPanda

+1 I have always gotten my aliexpress orders even though it annoys the hell out of my wife


----------



## springbay

SilverEars said:


> The problem I face with a lot of the buds I get recommended is they are not available on Amazon.  It takes longer than I wish to wait to get it shipped, and it's hard for me to *trust international shipments not to go wrong*.  Amazon is most reliable for  me.



Don't be this guy 

Aliexpress is as safe as anything. It's complicated to talk about where we buy some of the buds, because that particular seller is banned on Head-Fi. But is "easy" to search for the store.
The other most popular store is NICEHCK.


----------



## Saoshyant

BloodyPenguin said:


> Oh, hi.  I'm new here and this is my setup.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Welcome newbie.  I have a feeling you'll belong here quite nicely.  Hope you enjoy your stay


----------



## ClieOS

Makahl said:


> Hey @ClieOS, could you please share some impressions about the NiceHCK DIY Graphene?



Slightly bright, really good detail. Fast speed / transient, but a bit low in decay. As a result, bass doesn't go as deep as it can. It is kind of how I'll like to describe PT15. However, still a really good sounding earbud overall.


----------



## rkw

ClieOS said:


> Makahl said:
> 
> 
> > Hey @ClieOS, could you please share some impressions about the NiceHCK DIY Graphene?
> ...


Perhaps not a coincidence? Both of these are described as having "graphene" drivers.


----------



## golov17

cursing said:


> New Qian 69 surfaced. I think it looks very handsome.


Second Edition 
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/5148100241?pn=0&


----------



## redkingjoe

gc335 said:


> My Blur 300 Ohm just arrived.  Can't wait to try them!



Blur 300 ohm!?

How's the sound?

What's the name? It's very confusing that most Blue has Japanese names!

Mine is coming too!


----------



## redkingjoe

Blackground said:


> Yeah i did, it is an eidolic barrel with a matching cable splitter. Too be honest I didn't listen to them a whole lot before recabling. I can definitely tell the mids changed for the better, i am still experimenting a little with foam. I will have more impressions the more I listen.



The foam...yeh the foam is big business...foam actually change the sound a lot!

I'm also searching for the best...

Does anyone know which foam is the best?


----------



## redkingjoe

rkw said:


> Perhaps not a coincidence? Both of these are described as having "graphene" drivers.




Graphene driver is really interesting...those material

How's the sound?


----------



## theoutsider

golov17 said:


> Second Edition
> https://tieba.baidu.com/p/5148100241?pn=0&


First version of Qian69 has some quality issues (like the top deco plates will fall off, the paint wont last and etc.) so they stopped selling and tried their best to fix the problems.

The Qian boss sounds very responsible, he is giving existing 69 users new pairs of 69.


----------



## rkw

redkingjoe said:


> Graphene driver is really interesting...those material
> 
> *How's the sound?*


Uh, didn't you read the post I quoted?


----------



## redkingjoe

rkw said:


> Uh, didn't you read the post I quoted?



Lol. My bad. I believed I did and I remembered I did.

Believe it or not, I'm getting old and it's hard to follow so many models within one thread. That's why I asked again! My apologise. 

 LoL!


----------



## golov17

Awesome earbuds


----------



## Yobster69 (Aug 25, 2017)

golov17 said:


> Awesome earbuds


They look interesting. Which do you prefer and where can the be purchased?
Thanks Oleg,
Wayne

*edit* ignore where to buy from, I have just seen your FB post. 
What are they like though??


----------



## golov17 (Aug 25, 2017)

Yobster69 said:


> They look interesting. Which do you prefer and where can the be purchased?
> Thanks Oleg,
> Wayne
> 
> ...


Ungrateful thing to describe the sound .. The first analogy is "transparent", although

Maybe little on bright side BDE, than fuller neutral BLE..


----------



## gc335

redkingjoe said:


> Blur 300 ohm!?
> 
> How's the sound?
> 
> ...


Yes! It's the 300 ohm version with the silver cable and the clear shells.  I'm not sure of the model.

I really haven't had more than 2 minutes to listen to it but the sound is super detailed.  It's ever so slightly lacking low end for my taste but I need to get used to it.  The build is awesome.

I'll have some more time with it this weekend and I'll have a better impression of the sound signature.


----------



## golov17 (Aug 25, 2017)

Earbud train going to..


----------



## redkingjoe

gc335 said:


> Yes! It's the 300 ohm version with the silver cable and the clear shells.  I'm not sure of the model.
> 
> I really haven't had more than 2 minutes to listen to it but the sound is super detailed.  It's ever so slightly lacking low end for my taste but I need to get used to it.  The build is awesome.
> 
> I'll have some more time with it this weekend and I'll have a better impression of the sound signature.



Put at least 200 hours on it and more low should come out. 

Recently, I have bought two second hand IEM. Both of them didn't have much bass at first. Than I run them in for 150-250 hours and their bass came out nicely. I contacted the guys who sold me the IEMS. It appears to me that they hadn't fully ran-in the phones before letting them go.


----------



## gc335

redkingjoe said:


> Put at least 200 hours on it and more low should come out.
> 
> Recently, I have bought two second hand IEM. Both of them didn't have much bass at first. Than I run them in for 150-250 hours and their bass came out nicely. I contacted the guys who sold me the IEMS. It appears to me that they hadn't fully ran-in the phones before letting them go.


Absolutely! I basically wanted to make sure they work.  My DX200 needed to get swapped out due to a defect so I need to restart the burnin process with that as well.  It should arrive today.  I might hook them up to that and let it run for a few days.  I noticed a big improvement in my Shozy Black after a few hours.  Oddly enough those developed distortion and needed to be replaced so I need to start that process over again as well.


----------



## seanc6441

Hi I'm a new member here. Very recently got into hifi, specifically earbuds because I felt the time to upgrade from Apple Earpods was now lol. So far I've purchased and tested the MRZ Tomahawk, VE Monk +, Penon BS1 and TY-32s (Disliked the TY-32s' lack of mid range and vocals were 'off' to me). The tomahawk is wonderful except for it's slightly cold sound in some area's and it doesn't sound quiet so good off my iphone 6s on some tracks.

I'm looking for an ideal earbud to run off my Iphone 6s and so far the penon bs1's are probably the most well rounded. One thing I really dislike about them though is the very up front vocals. The vocal warmth/clarity is perfect but it's just too forward and overpowered my music preference which is along the lines of my favourite band Radiohead (wide range of instrumentals and layered music).

So the BS1 being to forward in the mids/vocals possibly I decided to purchase the DIY NICEHCK PK2 and VIDO off of Aliexpress.

*Anyone care to give me a quick comparision of the Penon BS1 vs. DIY NICEHCK PK2?*. I'm hoping the latter has a more airy sound maybe more neutral and possibly a better soundstage in terms of depth. (I love the depth of the tomahawk).

Long first post I know very sorry but I'm really enjoying this new hifi experience and I love earbuds over IEM's which I cannot stand in my ears! )


----------



## gc335

Try the EMX500.  I just got it and I'm very impressed.  For the price you can't go wrong.  To me, it has a nice warm fun sound signature that doesn't sacrifice too much clarity.


----------



## seanc6441

gc335 said:


> Try the EMX500.  I just got it and I'm very impressed.  For the price you can't go wrong.  To me, it has a nice warm fun sound signature that doesn't sacrifice too much clarity.


Thanks for the advice. I did see that earbud only after I purchased the DIY PK2. May check it out if I dislike this one


----------



## gc335

seanc6441 said:


> Thanks for the advice. I did see that earbud only after I purchased the DIY PK2. May check it out if I dislike this one


I haven't tried those personally but I've heard good things.  Enjoy!!!!


----------



## gobin

Anyone knows an alternative for the Philips SHE3800? I freaking love its sound profile. But It's out of stock on fasttech now. I fear that my current one will go out unexpectedly.

I should have grabbed 3 pairs or so in the past...

Many thanks in advancce


----------



## golov17

gobin said:


> Anyone knows an alternative for the Philips SHE3800? I freaking love its sound profile. But It's out of stock on fasttech now. I fear that my current one will go out unexpectedly.
> 
> I should have grabbed 3 pairs or so in the past...
> 
> Many thanks in advancce


http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=1116


----------



## purikuma

Im planning to buy new earbud , currently im using monk+ as daily earbud , i have choosing some of earbud in my budget range , yuin pk3 is my max budget , and some of another candidate are auglamour rx1 , diy pk2,emx500 or anything else? Im prefer good for female vocal also im not using an amp , only direct it to my shanling m1


----------



## gobin

golov17 said:


> http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=1116


Thanks but triple the price? nah I rather have something else.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Saoshyant said:


> Hmm, mine was a couple weeks, but I think he was still relatively unknown at the time.  And he was quite quick with communication too.  Odd, and unfortunate.



Uairekko finally responded. Seems he broke his phone lol. Things are moving forward again!



Blackground said:


> I 2nd this. David recabled my zen 2.0 with pure silver cables(white) and I couldn't be happier with the results. Super quick turn around, granted I live 20 min away from him.



I'll be shipping the Diomnes Lvl 2, CampFred 2, and QFred for re-termination tomorrow! $105 for everything, with 2-3 day turn around. Not as bad as I was expecting.

Definitely going to order balanced from now on though. I already told Wong to go ahead and make the Blur 64ohm SPC balanced as well.


----------



## golov17

gobin said:


> Thanks but triple the price? nah I rather have something else.


----------



## Blackground

redkingjoe said:


> The foam...yeh the foam is big business...foam actually change the sound a lot!
> 
> I'm also searching for the best...
> 
> Does anyone know which foam is the best?


Most definitely, I just ordered the heigi donuts off amazon, should be here tomorrow. I only have experience with the foams that have come with my buds (ve expack, monks, stardust, ty hi-z 650). They are all pretty similar if you ask me. I think the only variation is, thick/thin, donut/full, naked, correct me if I am wrong. So there is not necessarily an endless amount of options.


----------



## Saoshyant (Aug 25, 2017)

ctaxxxx said:


> Uairekko finally responded. Seems he broke his phone lol. Things are moving forward again!



If you could do me a favor and pass on a message to him from Peter Anderson (me), apparently Facebook thinks my account needed to be disabled, so until I get a response to find out what's going on I don't have a way of contacting him concerning the earbuds I wanted made.  I don't remember if he's available on Head-fi or not.  I'm glad he isn't flaking out, as he's been quite responsive and patient in the past.

Edit:  man head-fi's new system can be obnoxious at times


----------



## ctaxxxx

Saoshyant said:


> If you could do me a favor and pass on a message to him from Peter Anderson (me), apparently Facebook thinks my account needed to be disabled, so until I get a response to find out what's going on I don't have a way of contacting him concerning the earbuds I wanted made.  I don't remember if he's available on Head-fi or not.  I'm glad he isn't flaking out, as he's been quite responsive and patient in the past.
> 
> Edit:  man head-fi's new system can be obnoxious at times



Done.


----------



## Saoshyant

ctaxxxx said:


> Done.



Much appreciated.  I really do hope you like his work, as my only issue with the two I received is one of the cables turned out to be quite prone to memory issues, where the other was absolutely great.


----------



## Blackground (Aug 25, 2017)

how do i delete posts?


----------



## Blackground

ctaxxxx said:


> Uairekko finally responded. Seems he broke his phone lol. Things are moving forward again!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Balanced is the way to go! That is if you have the gear to support it. I am very curious as to how the Diomnes Lvl 2 turns out. Do you have any photos?? I haven't heard them yet, but I have a feeling they will be the last totl for my collection.


----------



## DBaldock9

purikuma said:


> Im planning to buy new earbud , currently im using monk+ as daily earbud , i have choosing some of earbud in my budget range , yuin pk3 is my max budget , and some of another candidate are auglamour rx1 , diy pk2,emx500 or anything else? Im prefer good for female vocal also im not using an amp , only direct it to my shanling m1



The ToneKing TP16 has a nice balanced sound, and they're very efficient - playing more loudly than my other earbuds, with the Volume on my M1 at the same setting.


----------



## doggiemom

golov17 said:


> Awesome earbuds


I received the Black Lion last week and so far like them a lot.  They are detailed and have a decent soundstage.  The sound is very natural.  The trebles can be a pinch sharp for my taste, though not so much that they are fatiguing.  The tuning is similar to the Blur, which I prefer over these, but the cost of the Black Lion is also significantly less.


----------



## notamethlab

I am pretty much set on earbuds after buying the yinman 150 ohm and 500 ohm BUT, after seeing the diy EP2K, PK2S and M760 graphene I'm curious about them. 

Is anyone here able to offer impressions on between them? I'd really appreciate it. 

Also on a side note, I'm looking for a pair of daily phones w/ mic as a back up to my apple earpods. Is the tennmak bassoon a worthy alternative?


----------



## silverfishla

So, I've been messing around with making some cables for earbuds (like many of you have).  Some have turned out pretty good.  Most of the mods really just change the sound signature, neither good nor bad in my opinion, so I don't post any of those results.  But...one mod really stood out as being fantastic.  Edifier H180 with a Monk+ cable.  That's it, nothing else.
Edifier (in my opinion) is a pretty good sounding bud as is.  I found it a little gritty though, but great energy.  Monk cable on there, the sound smooths out without losing detail and gains a really wide 3D soundstage.  Great articulate bass, great treble, nice vocals.  
 Really fantastic.  So if you've got some Monk parts laying around, try this one, it's good.  Guaranteed.


----------



## kurtextrem

https://twitter.com/hckexin/status/901433247082586115 wow, new: AUGLAMOUR RX-1*S*


----------



## snip3r77

kurtextrem said:


> https://twitter.com/hckexin/status/901433247082586115 wow, new: AUGLAMOUR RX-1*S*


Same price as the older one?


----------



## golov17 (Aug 26, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> Same price as the older one?


2017 Newest AUGLAMOUR RX-1S In Ear Earphone Earbud Flat Head Plug High Quality Full Metal Earbud Headset With Mic Free Shipping
http://s.aliexpress.com/vYrmi2ya


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 26, 2017)

I got the Monk+ today.  I feel like I was spoiled by the RX-1.  RX-1 has a better refined overall sound.  RX-1 does better in sound stage(sounds open), and bass, more definition in the mids and highs sounds more extended.

Monk+ does a good job, but RX-1 trumps it.  I say if going cheap Monk+ is good enough, but pay more with RX-1, and you'd get a better experience.  I don't think RX-1 is really pricey either given it being an over-achiever.

I think the larger speakers on the RX-1 has benefits to sound stage and the bass at least.  So, not all that impressed with the Monk+ after having RX-1 for awhile.  RX-1 is seemingly a gem.

I assumed earbuds general sound as open as RX-1, but comparing to the Monk+, RX-1 seems unusually more open sounding than at least Monk+ level.


----------



## DBaldock9

golov17 said:


> 2017 Newest AUGLAMOUR RX-1S In Ear Earphone Earbud Flat Head Plug High Quality Full Metal Earbud Headset With Mic Free Shipping
> http://s.aliexpress.com/vYrmi2ya



They're showing a confusing photo - a 3.5mm TRS plug, with a mic/control unit on the cable.  Don't those use a TRRS plug?


----------



## SilverEars

golov17 said:


> 2017 Newest AUGLAMOUR RX-1S In Ear Earphone Earbud Flat Head Plug High Quality Full Metal Earbud Headset With Mic Free Shipping
> http://s.aliexpress.com/vYrmi2ya


I need that.  Too bad no mic version was offered at the time of my purchase.  Earbuds are perfectly ok to walk around in as long as not too much noise, the problem is in the subway or the bus.


----------



## DBaldock9

SilverEars said:


> I need that.  Too bad no mic version was offered at the time of my purchase.  Earbuds are perfectly ok to walk around in as long as not too much noise, the problem is in the subway or the bus.



On the subway & bus is when you need the Bluetooth neural implant...


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 26, 2017)

Still my impressions are bit early as I didn't have lengthy listen session for refined impressions.

I think RX-1's highs are more refined, and between the mids and low high boundary it's lower than the Monk+ therefore Monk+ may sound some more definition in the mids.  RX-1 has more of a warm signature therefore more of an ambiance feeling and adds to the sound stage.  The upper bass on the RX-1 is felt due the impact.  RX-1 in general has a more impactful signature.

RX-1 definitely has better highs that are well defined.  Love the highs on the RX-1.  RX-1 has greater resolution.

I had no idea I had on my hands a great performer as my first set of buds, but something about it I liked a lot.


----------



## vladstef

SilverEars said:


> I got the Monk+ today.  I feel like I was spoiled by the RX-1.  RX-1 has a better refined overall sound.  RX-1 does better in sound stage(sounds open), and bass, more definition in the mids and highs sounds more extended.
> 
> Monk+ does a good job, but RX-1 trumps it.  I say if going cheap Monk+ is good enough, but pay more with RX-1, and you'd get a better experience.  I don't think RX-1 is really pricey either given it being an over-achiever.
> 
> ...



Didn't hear Monks, but they have been replaced by better sounding value earbuds as far as I can tell by other people's reviews/comparisons.
Monk has a standard MX shell and driver size - 15.4mm, while RX-1 has a slightly smaller driver at 14.3mm. At this ultra low price, Vido has a better sound stage and bass than RX-1, but RX-1 fills the stage better and in a more natural way. Bass is also of slightly greater quality on RX-1. High end extension is better on Vidos but again, quality suffers a bit in comparison to Auglamour.
So, up to this point, these 2 would be comparable in the same price range - having to decide between quantity and quality in many ways, but then you add the sublime mids of the RX-1 and overall build quality, design, accessories, better fit for most people and you suddenly realize that RX-1 is absolutely worth it. Also, I was comparing them to the ultra budget king in many people's eyes and I would even say that RX-1 offers even better value, except that Vidos are better all rounders because of that bass and high end quantity.
RX-1 can really impress sometimes, creating big out of this world sound akin to much more expensive open back full size headphones, and I could never get to this stage of being impressed with Vidos.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 26, 2017)

That's interesting Monk+ larger drivers as I assumed RX-1 would be larger due to the larger fit.  Vido sounds like a worthy contender I would like to try.  

RX-1's stage seems convincing, pretty realistic sounding.  There is some air the sound I can feel.


----------



## golov17

Competitors.. old vs new


----------



## fairx

All the rave about RX-1 these couple of days made me open my drawer and pull out the sleeping earbud once again. 

From Z1 LO to o2 amp on low gain, loose (old) VE foam ( because old used VE foam really brings out better bass than new and tight foam) 

Great great mids. Open sounding and beautiful bass response.  If vocals and mids are the star of the song and RX-1 will definitely shine. 

Hmm does it always have this open / bigger stage? I remember RX-1 stage a bit compressed? 

However it also reminds me why i stash away Rx-1. Lack of kick and bite / attack. 

Out of curiosity i paired it with my redmi note 3 pro as source to O2 amp. Surprisingly the void (kick / attack) somehow being filled? TBH  redmi note 3 pro is my least preferred source. 

Track from City of the Sun sound gorgeous with this combo. And most of chesky binaural sounds great too

But playing Stick Figure or Def Gab C tracks and the issue of cramped stage become  apparent again.  

RX-1 really grrat for vocals and simple  ensemble but not much for rock / metal. IMHO 

But hey its back on my ears. I guess RX-1 and couple other earbud (like tomahawk) will always be bipolar with people.  I'll enjoy RX-1 tonight and see if it stick till tomorrow.


----------



## theoutsider (Aug 26, 2017)

I'm contemplating ordering either K's K200, K's K300 or Puresounds PS100-150

anyone has any experience with those buds?


----------



## theoutsider (Aug 27, 2017)

fairx said:


> All the rave about RX-1 these couple of days made me open my drawer and pull out the sleeping earbud once again.
> 
> From Z1 LO to o2 amp on low gain, loose (old) VE foam ( because old used VE foam really brings out better bass than new and tight foam)
> 
> ...


RX1 soundstage is not comparable to that of TP16. It is not as fun sounding or engaging as other earbuds. However it is great for simple vocal tracks.


----------



## RyanM

I would robably agree with that. Tye RX-1 will satisfly audiophiles who want to hear the entire spectrum, however, there's better options if you want a "consumer" classic vshaped sound. Vido, EMX500 etc.... That said, the RX-1 will be truly impressive to those that are looking for this type of "full" sound like myself. Different strokes for different folks...


----------



## golov17

cursing said:


> I'm contemplating ordering either K's K200, K's K300 or Puresounds PS100-150
> 
> anyone has any experience with those buds?


Try K's300 and PS260, i like them more than bright K's200


----------



## theoutsider

golov17 said:


> Try K's300 and PS260, i like them more than bright K's200


I am actually leaning towards K200 simply because it looks different and it is potentially more comfortable than MX500 design.

Aliexpress is having Brands Shopping Week in 2 days so it is a good time to order some earbuds.


----------



## golov17

cursing said:


> I am actually leaning towards K200 simply because it looks different and it is potentially more comfortable than MX500 design.
> 
> Aliexpress is having Brands Shopping Week in 2 days so it is a good time to order some earbuds.


Okay


----------



## Blueshound24 (Aug 26, 2017)

Anybody have a recommended bud that has the very similar signature of the RX-1 but with the standard MX500 or Yuin shell?


----------



## HungryPanda

I have pk2 & k300 in my basket waiting for sale to start


----------



## rkw

fairx said:


> All the rave about RX-1 these couple of days made me open my drawer and pull out the sleeping earbud once again.


Me too. I put away my RX-1 months ago and was curious about the sudden surge of interest, so I took them out to reevaluate.

I listen mostly to classical music, and my conclusion is the same as before. The RX-1 is unsuitable for classical music. Higher instruments such as violins and brass sound shrill, grainy and harsh. The sound signature is overly bright and it doesn't convey the weight and scale of a symphony orchestra. By comparison, my PMV Aeode and Yinman are more balanced and better at accurately reproducing the sound of live acoustic instruments.


----------



## vladstef

rkw said:


> Me too. I put away my RX-1 months ago and was curious about the sudden surge of interest, so I took them out to reevaluate.
> 
> I listen mostly to classical music, and my conclusion is the same as before. The RX-1 is unsuitable for classical music. Higher instruments such as violins and brass sound shrill, grainy and harsh. The sound signature is overly bright and it doesn't convey the weight and scale of a symphony orchestra. By comparison, my PMV Aeode and Yinman are more balanced and better at accurately reproducing the sound of live acoustic instruments.


Had absolutely the same issue with my pair, they just don't sound good if the sound bounces outside ear canal. I'm inserting them differently now, cables over the ear and drivers not facing my head but facing towards the front, so that the driver ends up going in my ear sideways. All of the harshness gone and resolution came up so much. I absolutely know now why people are polarized about them, you really need to fit them properly, as they change sound more than any headphone I've ever had, even experimenting with bass ports on some headphones had much less effect than properly fitting Auglamour, they changed that much.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 26, 2017)

The only time I've had an issue with fit for RX-1 was when I got them for the first time and didn't know foam is required(it sounds really bad without foam).  I understand it's rather large speaker size compared to typical.  I guess it fits fine for my ears just enough to not run into sound issues.  I hear greater dynics or impact than the monk+ at least.  The bass has better impact.

It's interesting how couple others find the sound compressed(for me the opposite).  I find it large, one of the largest I've heard of an earphone.

Keep in mind sound stage depends on tracks, but still it's larger for ones that isn't produced for environmental effects for me.

I'm thinking my canal opening is large enough to take in the area of the sound.  Also, it sounds open due to not too snug fit, but fit can better as it is not snug due to the not being the typical shape like the ibuds.

I typically wear large tips for iems medium large precisely.  Perhaps if you are a small size, sound is not optimal.

This is the issue with earbuds, fit.


----------



## SilverEars

The audio for this video is a very open presentation, and I hear it like speakers.


----------



## SilverEars

After more listening sessions, to me the Monk+ is forward compared to the RX-1(by forward I mean the lower treble region is greater).  I think perhaps you guys mean by compressed on the RX-1 meaning the dynamics or the depth.  After a bit of listen I notice that the Monk+ is more dynamic.  Not only that, Monk has much tighter sound, but also more bolder sounding.  I hear more of the upper mids, lower treble transition area stronger on the Monk+.  Due to the tightness in sound, Monk+ is definately clearer sounding that the RX-1.  I don't think I've ever heard earbuds so tight sounding yet.  To me, the Monk+ is bolder and brighter.

I can say Monk+ definately better sounding than some $70-$100 iems I've tried recently.  They were dynamic drivers as well, but it's interesting how tight the sound coming of the Monk+ is.  Given it's characteristic being similar to headphones/speakers that are considered neutral, I would consider Monk+ in that domain as well.


----------



## SilverEars

RX-1 is clearly the superior iem than the Monk+.  Monk+'s treble doesn't extend as much and bolder and forward lower treble is not what I look for.  It provides less depth, less realism.  

Why do I like the RX-1?  I really thrives on live music performances.  It sounds convincingly realistic to me, whereas the Monk+ sound signature has the artificialness.


----------



## jogawag (Aug 27, 2017)

We have understood enough that you fall in love with RX-1.
However, it is said that "love is blind" and "silence is gold".


----------



## chaiyuta

I prefer Monk+ Sound over RX-1. By the way RX-1s is just mic version with same tuning as RX-1, isn't it?


----------



## noknok23

SilverEars said:


> RX-1 is clearly the superior iem than the Monk+.  Monk+'s treble doesn't extend as much and bolder and forward lower treble is not what I look for.  It provides less depth, less realism.
> 
> Why do I like the RX-1?  I really thrives on live music performances.  It sounds convincingly realistic to me, whereas the Monk+ sound signature has the artificialness.



Thanks for your feedback. It's well detailed and I'm happy to see a new converted of earbuds!!  Feel free to dig, get the "classics", look for the unknown...
Don't want to push you into this but I would be super curious to read your impressions with mid to up tier models.


----------



## seanc6441

hi im looking on Aliexpress for the Rose Masya original black/gold version as it is apparently better SQ than the newer version?

I don't need the wood version or carbon fibre version just the better black gold original version is ideal.

is this the one i'm looking for https://m.aliexpress.com/s/item/32787745508.html?spm=a2g0n.search-cache.0.0.7f25570fQbyz37

Has anyone bought this on Aliexpress from that seller?


----------



## Saoshyant

seanc6441 said:


> hi im looking on Aliexpress for the Rose Masya original black/gold version as it is apparently better SQ than the newer version?
> 
> I don't need the wood version or carbon fibre version just the better black gold original version is ideal.
> 
> ...



I've never read anything to suggest there was a difference between the standard or carbon version.


----------



## SilverEars

chaiyuta said:


> I prefer Monk+ Sound over RX-1. By the way RX-1s is just mic version with same tuning as RX-1, isn't it?


Whut?!  That don't agree with me, so therefore wrong.   Kidding.

I don't have the mic version.


----------



## golov17

Saoshyant said:


> I've never read anything to suggest there was a difference between the standard or carbon version.


btw, Masya Carbon has a heavier housing and tonal balance is biased towards the lower frequencies, unlike the usual version


----------



## seanc6441

Saoshyant said:


> I've never read anything to suggest there was a difference between the standard or carbon version.


i think there's 2 versions of non carbon rose/non wood rose.

One with normal front cover and one with a new style front cover?

I read on this forum that there was a sound difference, can anyone confirm that?


----------



## seanc6441

golov17 said:


> btw, Masya Carbon has a heavier housing and tonal balance is biased towards the lower frequencies, unlike the usual version


Any chance you've tested the Toneking Tomahawk? how is the tone compared to Masya?

I'm looking for something slightly warmer/fuller than tomahawk but still fairly neutral overall.


----------



## golov17

seanc6441 said:


> Any chance you've tested the Toneking Tomahawk? how is the tone compared to Masya?
> 
> I'm looking for something slightly warmer/fuller than tomahawk but still fairly neutral overall.


Not have any MusicMaker, sorry


----------



## seanc6441

golov17 said:


> Not have any MusicMaker, sorry



no worries 

I really love the soundstage of the Tomahawk but I hear the Masya is even bigger! Almost like a full size headphone xD


----------



## Saoshyant

golov17 said:


> btw, Masya Carbon has a heavier housing and tonal balance is biased towards the lower frequencies, unlike the usual version



Have you checked it yourself?  Could be why I like the carbon Masya so much as it has such a fun sound.


----------



## fairx

I'm quite happy with RX-1 for what its capable of.  But when i said compressed not mean its narrow stage (although I agree it's not the widest nor the stage is exact) . When there's lots of instrument competing in the same stage then i can hear RX-1 struggling. Compared to other budget like qian39 or vido. 

While some love RX-1 others move on to another earbud. People are divided on tomahawk too. But i still love my tomahawk. It's just that vido is so much more convenience, SQ and cable wise. 

I hope I'm not discouraging anyone.  

Oh anybody got impression on the newly re-released qian69


----------



## seanc6441

Saoshyant said:


> Have you checked it yourself?  Could be why I like the carbon Masya so much as it has such a fun sound.



I wonder if the difference is only slight or if it changes the sound signature noticeably.


----------



## seanc6441

fairx said:


> I'm quite happy with RX-1 for what its capable of.  But when i said compressed not mean its narrow stage (although I agree it's not the widest nor the stage is exact) . When there's lots of instrument competing in the same stage then i can hear RX-1 struggling. Compared to other budget like qian39 or vido.
> 
> While some love RX-1 others move on to another earbud. People are divided on tomahawk too. But i still love my tomahawk. It's just that vido is so much more convenience, SQ and cable wise.
> 
> ...



I also love my tomahawk but there's some music it really struggles at that's why i'm looking to the Masya!

I did a little mod on my tomahawk to improve the fit for better sound. Now it has a earbud shape more like a Masya fit and seems to give the sound a slightly better tone for my ears and more felt sub bass.

(Don't have Masya yet to be sure it's the same fit but i copied the silhouette based on pictures)


----------



## golov17

Saoshyant said:


> Have you checked it yourself?  Could be why I like the carbon Masya so much as it has such a fun sound.


yep


----------



## seanc6441

golov17 said:


> yep


Is either earbud 'better' SQ or just a different signature?


----------



## golov17 (Aug 27, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> Is either earbud 'better' SQ or just a different signature?


Sig, not SQ 
maybe someone will not notice the difference


----------



## kamal007

Hi All,
Im getting back to earbuds loving after getting the Chord Mojo. 

Im using VE Zen2.0 (Foamless, great sound, my favorite pair of earbud), K500 Earphone (Too bassy - donut foam) and RX-1 (full foam, sound is too thin). Im loving the Zen 2.0 but looking for upgrade/sidegrade to the earbud

2 questions here:
1. Is K500 supposed to be abit bassy? I only put in about 50hrs of burn in to the earphones.
2. Please recommend me an upgrade/side-grade to the Zen 2.0 in the $200 region. Currently looking at Blur 64, Cypherus Campred 2 or Masya/Mojito. Music preference is slow/classical rock

Thanks guys


----------



## mochill

kamal007 said:


> Hi All,
> Im getting back to earbuds loving after getting the Chord Mojo.
> 
> Im using VE Zen2.0 (Foamless, great sound, my favorite pair of earbud), K500 Earphone (Too bassy - donut foam) and RX-1 (full foam, sound is too thin). Im loving the Zen 2.0 but looking for upgrade/sidegrade to the earbud
> ...


Stardust or ps600


----------



## kamal007

mochill said:


> Stardust or ps600



Thanks. I read this thread up to 100 pages back and found out some QC issue with the Shozy. Trying to avoid that at the moment if possible unless they have improved

Is PS600 this one: https://goo.gl/Q4H1Er or where can i purchase those?


----------



## mochill

That is the right ps600


----------



## chaiyuta

@kamal007 : My recommendation is PS100-600S + Upgrade Version 1 (600-core cable).


----------



## kamal007

mochill said:


> That is the right ps600





chaiyuta said:


> @kamal007 : My recommendation is PS100-600S + Upgrade Version 1 (600-core cable).



Thanks. I guess this earbud will be better than Rose Mojito/Blur64/CAX?


----------



## mochill

It should be


----------



## rkw

kamal007 said:


> Thanks. I guess this earbud will be better than Rose Mojito/Blur64/CAX?


It depends on what qualities you are looking for. They each perform at a high level and have their differences. People have individual preferences and one is not necessarily "better" than another.


----------



## Saoshyant

@kamal007 If it helps, I just listened to Dark Side of the Moon on CampFred 2.  Was so great to listen to, even on a Shanling M1 I had to listen twice.


----------



## ballog

gobin said:


> Anyone knows an alternative for the Philips SHE3800? I freaking love its sound profile. But It's out of stock on fasttech now. I fear that my current one will go out unexpectedly.
> 
> I should have grabbed 3 pairs or so in the past...
> 
> Many thanks in advancce


@gobin . Me too I had three pairs. I destroyed 2 of these opening them for recable. They are my favorite earbuds. Like you said they are out of stock at Fasttech. I've found that they are available at Lunashop but unfortunately they are more than twice Fasttech's price.


----------



## golov17

Kinera, update info..


----------



## seanc6441

@golov17

About the Masya Carbon and Original. Is the original Masya light on bass or just more balanced than the Carbon?

Will I be missing out on bass by buying the original version?


----------



## golov17

Just nuances, buy any version


----------



## kurtextrem (Aug 28, 2017)

kamal007 said:


> Thanks. I read this thread up to 100 pages back and found out some QC issue with the Shozy. Trying to avoid that at the moment if possible unless they have improved
> 
> Is PS600 this one: https://goo.gl/Q4H1Er or where can i purchase those?


I'd go for it anyway (I have the Stardust and had moisture issues with it), or maybe wait until they release a new earbud. But that will be in 2018 I think.

And tbh, I'm not sure if you should go for the PS-100 600 ohm, see: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/puresounds-ps100-600.22197/reviews#review-17995 - According to his review the Cygnus is superior. And we know which earbuds are superior to the Cygnus (Stardust, CampFred buds)


----------



## chaiyuta

@kamal007 : I can't answer your question whether PS100-600S+600-core cables is better than others or not. I never tried Shozy Stardust, Campfred CAX, and any TOTL earbuds too much except Rose Mojito. The good point of Rose Mojito is that it has 2-pin detachable feature. My favourite combination is Rose Mojito + Brimar SPC cable (with a little bit soldering wire tuning). But in case of Rose Mojito + stock cable, I prefer PS100-600S over it. The main reason is I prefer neutral tonality most. Whereas Rose Mojito + Stock cable has high-level Bright tonality.


----------



## Schwejk (Aug 28, 2017)

Hiya fellow head-fiers,

today I've recieved DYI EMX500 and Yincrow X6. They sound very similiar to my ears - the X6's have just a tad more "bigger" sound. The highs are more realistic than the EMX500 and the bass goes a bit deeper. But the detail retrieval is to my ears better on EMX500. The cable on X6's is also nicer. However, both are more fun to listen than my Monks+ and MrZ Tomahawks -eventhough i guess that Monks and Tomahawks will still remain my go-to buds for jazz and acoustic music.

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## HungryPanda

I agree, since getting my DIY EMX500 I can't seem to take them out of my ears


----------



## noknok23

kurtextrem said:


> I'd go for it anyway (I have the Stardust and had moisture issues with it), or maybe wait until they release a new earbud. But that will be in 2018 I think.
> 
> And tbh, I'm not sure if you should go for the PS-100 600 ohm, see: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/puresounds-ps100-600.22197/reviews#review-17995 - According to his review the Cygnus is superior. And we know which earbuds are superior to the Cygnus (Stardust, CampFred buds)



I am not so convinced by Vapman review, I was too quite underwhelmed by the ps600 at first until I upggraded my sources (that is zishan Z2 with TOTL op amp).... let's state it like this, if PS600 is driven properly, lot of power, clean source, it will sound better than campfred 1. The sound is super clean and very easy to like, beautiful vocals, little sub bass bump, smooth highs, overall very very clean, and tbh I still think that the ps600 hasn't shown all his potential to me with what i have yet.

If you have a low power source, campfred is better choice (still need rather hi-fi to shine)

afaik, cygnus is great because it sounds good out of anything, but doesn't scale as much? I never had it so take this with grain of salt.

hope that helps.


----------



## kamal007

rkw said:


> It depends on what qualities you are looking for. They each perform at a high level and have their differences. People have individual preferences and one is not necessarily "better" than another.



I know. Better is very subjective here but just want to gather as much opinion as I can before I take the plunge



Saoshyant said:


> @kamal007 If it helps, I just listened to Dark Side of the Moon on CampFred 2.  Was so great to listen to, even on a Shanling M1 I had to listen twice.



Nice. If I can stretch my budget to get 2 TOTL earbuds, this will be my Top 3 (Based on what I read here)



kurtextrem said:


> I'd go for it anyway (I have the Stardust and had moisture issues with it), or maybe wait until they release a new earbud. But that will be in 2018 I think.
> 
> And tbh, I'm not sure if you should go for the PS-100 600 ohm, see: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/puresounds-ps100-600.22197/reviews#review-17995 - According to his review the Cygnus is superior. And we know which earbuds are superior to the Cygnus (Stardust, CampFred buds)



Its quite a gamble to splurge $200 hoping to get a good unit. Shozy should really improve their QC for the TOTL earbuds



chaiyuta said:


> @kamal007 : I can't answer your question whether PS100-600S+600-core cables is better than others or not. I never tried Shozy Stardust, Campfred CAX, and any TOTL earbuds too much except Rose Mojito. The good point of Rose Mojito is that it has 2-pin detachable feature. My favourite combination is Rose Mojito + Brimar SPC cable (with a little bit soldering wire tuning). But in case of Rose Mojito + stock cable, I prefer PS100-600S over it. The main reason is I prefer neutral tonality most. Whereas Rose Mojito + Stock cable has high-level Bright tonality.



I see. PS100-600ohm is not that famous in here in comparison to Shozy, Rose series and others. Thats why I need to study abit more on the sound signature. Plus it will not be on sale this week on AE, so no rush for me to get it



noknok23 said:


> I am not so convinced by Vapman review, I was too quite underwhelmed by the ps600 at first until I upggraded my sources (that is zishan Z2 with TOTL op amp).... let's state it like this, if PS600 is driven properly, lot of power, clean source, it will sound better than campfred 1. The sound is super clean and very easy to like, beautiful vocals, little sub bass bump, smooth highs, overall very very clean, and tbh I still think that the ps600 hasn't shown all his potential to me with what i have yet.
> 
> If you have a low power source, campfred is better choice (still need rather hi-fi to shine)
> 
> ...



Im using my Chord Mojo which in my opinion is a very good amp/dac. Far better than what I've used in the past 10 years. To my ears a DAC is far more important that an amp


----------



## ctaxxxx

kamal007 said:


> Its quite a gamble to splurge $200 hoping to get a good unit. Shozy should really improve their QC for the TOTL earbuds



Someone is selling their's for $120 - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-shozy-stardust-bk-earbuds.855414/


----------



## chaiyuta

kamal007 said:


> I see. PS100-600ohm is not that famous in here in comparison to Shozy, Rose series and others. Thats why I need to study abit more on the sound signature. Plus it will not be on sale this week on AE, so no rush for me to get it
> 
> Im using my Chord Mojo which in my opinion is a very good amp/dac. Far better than what I've used in the past 10 years. To my ears a DAC is far more important that an amp



If you are going to 300Ohm or above earbuds, The amplifier will become a big role player. There are a lot of Players (DAP or DAC/AMP device) that can not feed enough power for those high Ohm earbuds. Since you use Chord Mojo as primary, I think even 600Ohm should be fine for you but not 100% sure.


----------



## snip3r77

I just received my Vido. Jaw dropped after listening to this Starbucks earbud


----------



## SilverEars

snip3r77 said:


> I just received my Vido. Jaw dropped after listening to this Starbucks earbud


Did you get it from NICEHCK on Aliexpress?  How quick is shipping to the US?

Any other stars on NICEHCK to try? I already have Monk+ and RX-1


----------



## snip3r77

SilverEars said:


> Did you get it from NICEHCK on Aliexpress?  How quick is shipping to the US?



I'm from Singapore. Took me <2 weeks ( which is damn fast )


----------



## noknok23

chaiyuta said:


> If you are going to 300Ohm or above earbuds, The amplifier will become a big role player. There are a lot of Players (DAP or DAC/AMP device) that can not feed enough power for those high Ohm earbuds. Since you use Chord Mojo as primary, I think even 600Ohm should be fine for you but not 100% sure.


Chord mojo can drive zen2 right? Then it can drive any earbuds 
Despite being 600ohm, the ps600 is quite efficient. I agree dac play a big role. That's what I meant by "clean source" sorry if not the right words


----------



## SilverEars

Efficieny is what matters look at the Db output.


----------



## Saoshyant

Anyone finding any good deals for the Aliexpress sale?  I'm tempted to finally pick up Edifier H185 for $8, and maybe the RX-1S for $22.


----------



## Frederick Wang

Saoshyant said:


> Anyone finding any good deals for the Aliexpress sale?  I'm tempted to finally pick up Edifier H185 for $8, and maybe the RX-1S for $22.


RX-1S? Auglamour got a new version?


----------



## Saoshyant

Frederick Wang said:


> RX-1S? Auglamour got a new version?



Believed to be just an addition of mic, but as it just came out nobody knows if there's an audible change.


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 28, 2017)

Saoshyant said:


> Anyone finding any good deals for the Aliexpress sale?  I'm tempted to finally pick up Edifier H185 for $8, and maybe the RX-1S for $22.


Diy PK2 is at $16 I picked one up.

Although I'd probably buy option 2/3 with the nicer cables at $1-2 extra.


----------



## MLTKSHHBT

noknok23 said:


> I am not so convinced by Vapman review, I was too quite underwhelmed by the ps600 at first until I upggraded my sources (that is zishan Z2 with TOTL op amp).... let's state it like this, if PS600 is driven properly, lot of power, clean source, it will sound better than campfred 1. The sound is super clean and very easy to like, beautiful vocals, little sub bass bump, smooth highs, overall very very clean, and tbh I still think that the ps600 hasn't shown all his potential to me with what i have yet.
> 
> If you have a low power source, campfred is better choice (still need rather hi-fi to shine)
> 
> ...


What's the difference of Campfred 1 & 2?


----------



## luckyeights

So what are the top dog recommendations these days in earbuds? Right now i have the rose masya and ty650 and neither quite reach what im lookin for.  I want something with slight bit more full bodied mid range for vocals and a little bit more extension and quantity in the bass but not bloated or boomy with the same articulate detailed highs as the masya.  If such an animal exists?

Basically masya vocals and bass sound too thin (not full bodied) and sound a little unnatural to me.  ty650 vocals are better and bass is better but just a little more and we might be there but if we could some how get the great details and resolution of the masya now we would be talking.    

Iv been thinking about the stardust but then someone had mentioned the Blur?  I followed the facebook link but it appears he removed his facebook page?  Also what of Cypherus any of that line up you figure might meet my desires in an earbud?

Someone said the blur beats the shozy stardust i would like to know the details on this like in what way is it better and how do i obtain one if i can.  Or any other earbuds you would like to recommend.

I wish i could use a shrink gun and shrink my monolith m1060s into an earbud then id be completely satisfied.


----------



## redkingjoe

chaiyuta said:


> If you are going to 300Ohm or above earbuds, The amplifier will become a big role player. There are a lot of Players (DAP or DAC/AMP device) that can not feed enough power for those high Ohm earbuds. Since you use Chord Mojo as primary, I think even 600Ohm should be fine for you but not 100% sure.



I'm using ipad2, do you think ipad2 have enough power for a 300ohm earbud?


----------



## redkingjoe

Blackground said:


> Most definitely, I just ordered the heigi donuts off amazon, should be here tomorrow. I only have experience with the foams that have come with my buds (ve expack, monks, stardust, ty hi-z 650). They are all pretty similar if you ask me. I think the only variation is, thick/thin, donut/full, naked, correct me if I am wrong. So there is not necessarily an endless amount of options.



When I was a kid, earbud is the mainstream with Walkman and discman. At that time, the materials of the earbud is extremely important. 

For example, the thin/thick foams has a few materials of make: cloth, cotton, synthetic, silk etc The best sound was silk pad. In fact, Sony has put silk inside into some of their most exotic headphone model. Sony has also put cloth inside a few ear buds to tune the bass and treble proportion.

I'm looking if I can get some silk pad from aliexpress.


----------



## golov17 (Aug 28, 2017)

http://s.aliexpress.com/uYRBRbUn


----------



## redkingjoe

luckyeights said:


> Iv been thinking about the stardust but then someone had mentioned the Blur?  I followed the facebook link but it appears he removed his facebook page?  Also what of Cypherus any of that line up you figure might meet my desires in an earbud?
> 
> Someone said the blur beats the shozy stardust i would like to know the details on this like in what way is it better and how do i obtain one if i can.  Or any other earbuds you would like to recommend.
> .



Last few weeks, I was also looking for Shozy stardust and found it a great candidate...but...end up buying a Blur from Wong.

The blur is on its way to me.

I have been talking to Wong for the last week..I added him as friend on FB and use PM without any problem.


----------



## chaiyuta (Aug 28, 2017)

redkingjoe said:


> I'm using ipad2, do you think ipad2 have enough power for a 300ohm earbud?



ipad2 cannot drive high Ohm earbud into full potential. You can hear sound but it is not as nice as via a specific amplifer. In general, even mostly smartphones with dedicated DAC/AMP inside still can't, and mostly Hi-Fi DAP (with tech specs support up to 600Ohm) can drive well only around 150 Ohm. By the way when I say 'Mostly', it does not mean all in the market. The best solution would be Desktop DAC/AMP. The second would be Player + Portable Amplifier. Let's say Sennheiser HD800 (300 Ohm) pairing with iBasso DX200, which is Hi-Fi DAP, still can't drive HD800 well. If you have a chance to demo those high impedance earbuds or headphone at you local store shop, please try you will get it.


----------



## snip3r77

luckyeights said:


> So what are the top dog recommendations these days in earbuds? Right now i have the rose masya and ty650 and neither quite reach what im lookin for.  I want something with slight bit more full bodied mid range for vocals and a little bit more extension and quantity in the bass but not bloated or boomy with the same articulate detailed highs as the masya.  If such an animal exists?
> 
> Basically masya vocals and bass sound too thin (not full bodied) and sound a little unnatural to me.  ty650 vocals are better and bass is better but just a little more and we might be there but if we could some how get the great details and resolution of the masya now we would be talking.
> 
> ...



I'm pre


chaiyuta said:


> ipad2 cannot drive high Ohm earbud into full potential. You can hear sound but it is not as nice as via a specific amplifer. In general, even mostly smartphones with dedicated DAC/AMP inside still can't, and mostly Hi-Fi DAP (with tech specs support up to 600Ohm) can drive well only around 150 Ohm. By the way when I say 'Mostly', it does not mean all in the market. The best solution would be Desktop DAC/AMP. The second would be Player + Portable Amplifier. Let's say Sennheiser HD800 (300 Ohm) pairing with iBasso DX200, which is Hi-Fi DAP, still can't drive HD800 well. If you have a chance to demo those high impedance earbuds or headphone at you local store shop, please try you will get it.



To support iPhone, what is the min ohm and sensitivity should one go in order for it to drive properly?


----------



## chaiyuta

@snip3r77 : I think 24 - 64 Ohm should be fine. For low Ohm (around 0-24 Ohm) earphones, there is another thing to consideration that is "Output impedance" from tech specs of Player. I have no more knowledge to explain this parameter. I just can say that Lower value is better.


----------



## snip3r77

chaiyuta said:


> @snip3r77 : I think 24 - 64 Ohm should be fine. For low Ohm (around 0-24 Ohm) earphones, there is another thing to consideration that is "Output impedance" from tech specs of Player. I have no more knowledge to explain this parameter. I just can say that Lower value is better.



For output impedance , it needs to be a ratio of 8 or more.

Say phone/dap is 1 , then the iem needs to be 8 and above.


----------



## activatorfly

Tonx said:


> Puresounds ps260 is great for the price too, really like it. It seems PS did a good job on their earbuds. I have PS 150 on order now, really curious how it sounds for the low price.


What's your impression of PS150?


----------



## theoutsider

Saoshyant said:


> Anyone finding any good deals for the Aliexpress sale?  I'm tempted to finally pick up Edifier H185 for $8, and maybe the RX-1S for $22.



I ordered a Musicmaker/Toneking tomahawk for 20 bucks+ cause i love my toneking tp16. I also ordered a 1more EO303 and it costs me 10 bucks+

I am not sure if I should get a pair of higher impedance earbuds, maybe a Puresounds PS100-150 or one of the K's.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 29, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> For output impedance , it needs to be a ratio of 8 or more.
> 
> Say phone/dap is 1 , then the iem needs to be 8 and above.


If you look at impedance graphs for typical dynamic earphones, there's some bump in the upper or mid bass, but on the avg pretty leveled.  In this situation impedance isn't much of an issue, but depending on that bass bump, you may get less bass.

Forget about impedance at 1khz as spec'd, you'd have to see the graph to see if there is significant impedance skew(that matters the most).  Look at the Sennheiser 600 impedance graph, see the hump where the dynamics typically have a bump?   But, this one is such a high impedance even in the minima that output impedance of most amps probably don't even come close.


----------



## snip3r77

SilverEars said:


> If you look at impedance graphs for typical dynamic earphones, there's some bump in the upper or mid bass, but on the avg pretty leveled.  In this situation impedance isn't much of an issue, but depending on that bass bump, you may get less bass.
> 
> Forget about impedance at 1khz as spec'd, you'd have to see the graph to see if there is significant impedance skew(that matters the most).  Look at the Sennheiser 600 impedance graph, see the hump where the dynamics typically have a bump?   But, this one is such a high impedance even in the minima that output impedance of most amps probably don't even come close.


It doesn't matter if the ratio is >8 , no ?


----------



## SilverEars

I there is no significant enough variation in the impedance response or flat, not really.


----------



## SilverEars

I there is no significant enough variation in the impedance response or flat, not really.


----------



## snip3r77

ctaxxxx said:


> Someone is selling their's for $120 - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-shozy-stardust-bk-earbuds.855414/



Your review mentioned that the Vido needs thin foam. Are the stock ones thin?


----------



## snip3r77

Anyone here remembers the bass slam of vintage Sony earbuds ? any equivalent ones that are available "?


----------



## ctaxxxx

snip3r77 said:


> Your review mentioned that the Vido needs thin foam. Are the stock ones thin?



The ones that come with it are thick. You would need to buy a Monk+ EX Pack from Venture Electronics.


----------



## Saoshyant

cursing said:


> I ordered a Musicmaker/Toneking tomahawk for 20 bucks+ cause i love my toneking tp16. I also ordered a 1more EO303 and it costs me 10 bucks+
> 
> I am not sure if I should get a pair of higher impedance earbuds, maybe a Puresounds PS100-150 or one of the K's.



While I like the Tomahawk, there's something about it that people eitger like or hate with little middle ground.  The TP16 is more universally enjoyed it seems.  I haven't heard the EO303, but have the EO320 and prefer it to the Tomahawk.

As far as a higher impedance bud, it's a rough call to make suggestions as it feels like with earbuds there's a lot of love at the budget and TOTL ranges, but the middle is a bit more picky.  I personally like the Hi-Z 150S, but it's a very mixed bag with it's more recessed mids.  You're also getting into the power range where your source's capabilities with driving start to matter, so knowing your source could be quite helpful for suggestions.


----------



## theoutsider

Saoshyant said:


> While I like the Tomahawk, there's something about it that people eitger like or hate with little middle ground.  The TP16 is more universally enjoyed it seems.  I haven't heard the EO303, but have the EO320 and prefer it to the Tomahawk.
> 
> As far as a higher impedance bud, it's a rough call to make suggestions as it feels like with earbuds there's a lot of love at the budget and TOTL ranges, but the middle is a bit more picky.  I personally like the Hi-Z 150S, but it's a very mixed bag with it's more recessed mids.  You're also getting into the power range where your source's capabilities with driving start to matter, so knowing your source could be quite helpful for suggestions.


I read that eo320 sounds quite a bit better than eo303 (veiled sound) but at nearly half the price, I decided that eo303 is a better choice.  

I have a Hi-z 32 and I do not like its sound signature. For that reason, i did not jump the bandwagon to get a 150s. I do have a Zishan Z2 so I feel like I am eligible to try out some high impedance buds.


----------



## teesui

cursing said:


> I read that eo320 sounds quite a bit better than eo303 (veiled sound) but at nearly half the price, I decided that eo303 is a better choice.
> 
> I have a Hi-z 32 and I do not like its sound signature. For that reason, i did not jump the bandwagon to get a 150s. I do have a Zishan Z2 so I feel like I am eligible to try out some high impedance buds.



I can attest to the eo303 sounding really veiled. Sound is subpar but for the price you paid for, great build quality and the accessories (metal tin & molded silicon case/cord/carrier)


----------



## Saoshyant

cursing said:


> I read that eo320 sounds quite a bit better than eo303 (veiled sound) but at nearly half the price, I decided that eo303 is a better choice.
> 
> I have a Hi-z 32 and I do not like its sound signature. For that reason, i did not jump the bandwagon to get a 150s. I do have a Zishan Z2 so I feel like I am eligible to try out some high impedance buds.



To me the Hi-Z 32 feels a bit boring and uninspired compared to the TP16, and the 150S is meant for people seeking a fun V shaped sound.  All depends on your tastes at this point.

I haven't heard the Z2 but went the V2S route, and that thing can drive a ZMF Ori.  If the Z2 has similar driving capabilites any earbud is within reach.


----------



## theoutsider

Saoshyant said:


> To me the Hi-Z 32 feels a bit boring and uninspired compared to the TP16, and the 150S is meant for people seeking a fun V shaped sound.  All depends on your tastes at this point.
> 
> I haven't heard the Z2 but went the V2S route, and that thing can drive a ZMF Ori.  If the Z2 has similar driving capabilites any earbud is within reach.


Though an earlier release, Tomahawk is one step higher than TP16 and a step lower than Ting, I read it sounds on par with Ting so I decided to give it a try. I pulled the trigger on a tomahawk and a 1more bud based on the materials used and the look and feel of a product  Sometimes the impression and the sense of touch matter as much as the sound. 

I was torn in between Z2 and V2s. V2s has more buttons (means easier to use) and Z2 has good DAC. I do not have anything over 64ohms so I feel like I am under-utilizing my Z2 now.


----------



## Saoshyant

cursing said:


> Though an earlier release, Tomahawk is one step higher than TP16 and a step lower than Ting, I read it sounds on par with Ting so I decided to give it a try. I pulled the trigger on a tomahawk and a 1more bud based on the materials used and the look and feel of a product  Sometimes the impression and the sense of touch matter as much as the sound.
> 
> I was torn in between Z2 and V2s. V2s has more buttons (means easier to use) and Z2 has good DAC. I do not have anything over 64ohms so I feel like I am under-utilizing my Z2 now.



For me it simply came down to wanting a shuffle option.  As far as utilization, you can spend your entire time with earbuds at 64 ohms or less, ranging from TP16 to something like CampFred 2 and have a great time.


----------



## theoutsider

Saoshyant said:


> For me it simply came down to wanting a shuffle option.  As far as utilization, you can spend your entire time with earbuds at 64 ohms or less, ranging from TP16 to something like CampFred 2 and have a great time.


I retired from full size open back cans recently cause I cant use them comfortably with my spectacles. I owned HE-400s and fidelio x2 cause they were the best for un-amped sources. 

So what else you think of getting during this Ali sale?


----------



## Saoshyant

cursing said:


> I retired from full size open back cans recently cause I cant use them comfortably with my spectacles. I owned HE-400s and fidelio x2 cause they were the best for un-amped sources.
> 
> So what else you think of getting during this Ali sale?



I'm not entirely sure I've found anything I actually need, and as I just spent $900 on a full size can and dac/amp I might just pass up this sale.


----------



## knudsen

I'm still loving the emx500 sound, especially after burn in which results in a significant change to my ears, but I'm on my third pair in only 3 months now. 2 pairs started rattling in one side, which just escalated from there. I've tried the fix suggested a couple of times, to take the bud apart and put some glue on/glue some paper to the front side of the shell, to put more pressure on the driver. But I've failed to fix it yet..

So question: Has anyone used the emx500 intensively for say 3 months or more, without any problems?
Secondly, does anyone find the nicehck diy mx760 graphene an upgrade to emx500? Are they comparable in signature?

All my emx500 has been from the banned seller (seems to me it does'nt matter where they are bought though).

Thanks a lot


----------



## Trippin

knudsen said:


> I'm still loving the emx500 sound, especially after burn in which results in a significant change to my ears, but I'm on my third pair in only 3 months now. 2 pairs started rattling in one side, which just escalated from there. I've tried the fix suggested a couple of times, to take the bud apart and put some glue on/glue some paper to the front side of the shell, to put more pressure on the driver. But I've failed to fix it yet..
> 
> So question: Has anyone used the emx500 intensively for say 3 months or more, without any problems?
> Secondly, does anyone find the nicehck diy mx760 graphene an upgrade to emx500? Are they comparable in signature?
> ...


Well at least yours lasted for a bit. Mine lasted 5 days


----------



## Trippin

I want to mod an edifier H180. Have already re-cabled it. Was wondering if they are any modifications I could make to the driver or shell to improve bass response or tone down the treble a bit?


----------



## HungryPanda

I got both the emx500 and the nicehck diy mx760 graphene a week ago. I find the nicehck diy mx760 graphene more neutral than the emx500 which has a boomier bass. Saying that I really enjoy both of these earbuds. I use the emx500 when out and about


----------



## Yobster69

knudsen said:


> I'm still loving the emx500 sound, especially after burn in which results in a significant change to my ears, but I'm on my third pair in only 3 months now. 2 pairs started rattling in one side, which just escalated from there. I've tried the fix suggested a couple of times, to take the bud apart and put some glue on/glue some paper to the front side of the shell, to put more pressure on the driver. But I've failed to fix it yet..
> 
> So question: Has anyone used the emx500 intensively for say 3 months or more, without any problems?
> Secondly, does anyone find the nicehck diy mx760 graphene an upgrade to emx500? Are they comparable in signature?
> ...


6 months of use now and absolutely no problems at all. 
It's disappointing that some have had issues like yourself, I loved mine from the first moment until just 10 minutes ago.
I haven't recablled them, I've been happy with the cable they came with. 
It's a damn shame the QC has gone downhill. I can only imagine that they have trouble keeping up with orders????


----------



## theoutsider

knudsen said:


> I'm still loving the emx500 sound, especially after burn in which results in a significant change to my ears, but I'm on my third pair in only 3 months now. 2 pairs started rattling in one side, which just escalated from there. I've tried the fix suggested a couple of times, to take the bud apart and put some glue on/glue some paper to the front side of the shell, to put more pressure on the driver. But I've failed to fix it yet..
> 
> So question: Has anyone used the emx500 intensively for say 3 months or more, without any problems?
> Secondly, does anyone find the nicehck diy mx760 graphene an upgrade to emx500? Are they comparable in signature?
> ...


so what's the story behind the banned seller? i am missing out on something, do enlighten me with a bit of history, thanks.


----------



## knudsen

cursing said:


> so what's the story behind the banned seller? i am missing out on something, do enlighten me with a bit of history, thanks.


Easiest is just to search, there are threads about it. Talk about it will just be deleted, maybe before you read it


----------



## gc335

cursing said:


> so what's the story behind the banned seller? i am missing out on something, do enlighten me with a bit of history, thanks.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chi...iems-amps-dacs.684159/page-2008#post-12676708
This post explains it.


----------



## golov17




----------



## Vixox314 (Aug 29, 2017)

Saoshyant said:


> Anyone finding any good deals for the Aliexpress sale?  I'm tempted to finally pick up Edifier H185 for $8, and maybe the RX-1S for $22.


I want to buy some buds from NiceHCK, I read good opinions here for Toneking tp16, diy pk2 and Auglamour RX-1, I want to order one + a vido, what do you guys like more or will complement best the vido or have another recomendation? Also is zishan z1 a good option to buy for this buds? (Is around $20 usd in ali now, or is better to go for walnut v2s for 8 bucks more? Zishan z2 is a bit expensive for me, at the moment I only use my phone for music)


----------



## danimoca

Vixox314 said:


> I want to buy some buds from NiceHCK, I read good opinions here for Toneking tp16, diy pk2 and Auglamour RX-1, I want to order one + a vido, what do you guys like more or will complement best the vido? Also is zishan z1 a good option to buy for this buds? (Is around $20 usd in ali now, or is better to go for walnut v2s for 8 bucks more? Zishan z2 is a bit expensive for me, at the moment I only use my phone for music)



I'm in the exact same position as you! On the earbuds and the DAP's.

Would appreciate some feedback as well.


----------



## voxdub

Trippin said:


> Well at least yours lasted for a bit. Mine lasted 5 days


The diaphragm has just gone on my right earbud, am gutted as absolutely loved the EMX500, had it less than a month. Back using the H180s, had forgotten how much I liked them though after using the Fengru, Monks and Qian39s for the past month.


----------



## luckyeights

Hey guys what should i get during this sale on aliexpress.  Right now i have the emx500 the vido, the diy graphene, the nicehck diy pk2  and now i need your help should i get the K's 300ohm samsara or the k's 600ohm?  Also if you have any other suggestions i should add to my carr during this sale help much appriciated   =D


----------



## HungryPanda

I ordered the K300's still on the fence if I want to go for the the K600


----------



## Saoshyant

Vixox314 said:


> I want to buy some buds from NiceHCK, I read good opinions here for Toneking tp16, diy pk2 and Auglamour RX-1, I want to order one + a vido, what do you guys like more or will complement best the vido or have another recomendation? Also is zishan z1 a good option to buy for this buds? (Is around $20 usd in ali now, or is better to go for walnut v2s for 8 bucks more? Zishan z2 is a bit expensive for me, at the moment I only use my phone for music)



The Vido's strength is is bass where it's weakness if vocals.  Of those you're considering, the TP16 has respectable bass, the PK2 is balanced across the spectrum, and the RX-1 is a strong budget vocals earbud that's weakness is bass.  I'd probably recommend the RX-1 to compliment the Vido personally.


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 29, 2017)

luckyeights said:


> Hey guys what should i get during this sale on aliexpress.  Right now i have the emx500 the vido, the diy graphene, the nicehck diy pk2  and now i need your help should i get the K's 300ohm samsara or the k's 600ohm?  Also if you have any other suggestions i should add to my carr during this sale help much appriciated   =D



NiceHCK DIY PK2 or EMX500 which do you prefer?

As for your question, Maaaaybe Tomahawk? It's at €22 I think? But I don't have enough other budget earbuds to rank the Tomahawk off of  plus the sound is annoyingly slightly "off" sometimes. The annoying part is with a slightly warmer/fuller less veiled sound in the mids/highs and it would be a masterclass earbud in its price range. The soundstage and separation is wonderful.


----------



## ozkan

knudsen said:


> I'm still loving the emx500 sound, especially after burn in which results in a significant change to my ears, but I'm on my third pair in only 3 months now. 2 pairs started rattling in one side, which just escalated from there. I've tried the fix suggested a couple of times, to take the bud apart and put some glue on/glue some paper to the front side of the shell, to put more pressure on the driver. But I've failed to fix it yet..
> 
> So question: Has anyone used the emx500 intensively for say 3 months or more, without any problems?
> Secondly, does anyone find the nicehck diy mx760 graphene an upgrade to emx500? Are they comparable in signature?
> ...



If you have rattling problem on one of the drivers, there are 2 solutions which worked several times for me. 

I think the rattling comes from the loose driver. The driver membrane which is glued to the front cover may somehow get loose after some usage. 

There are two ways to fix this issue. First way to pry open the front cover and check the driver plate if it is glued to the cover properly and doesn't move.  When you pull  or twist the driver plate it shouldn't move If you have one moving you should push the driver and twist only a little bit until it is stuck to the cover.

The second way is blowing/vacuuming to the membrane gently with your mouth. Sometimes the membrane can be somewhat crinkled and cannot move properly or there may be a small piece of hair or dust left on the membrane which causes ratling/buzzing sound. 

I have rescued some earphones with these methods before throwing them to the trash. So please  try them before because it is not that easy to break your earphones. 

Hope this helps


----------



## snip3r77

luckyeights said:


> Hey guys what should i get during this sale on aliexpress.  Right now i have the emx500 the vido, the diy graphene, the nicehck diy pk2  and now i need your help should i get the K's 300ohm samsara or the k's 600ohm?  Also if you have any other suggestions i should add to my carr during this sale help much appriciated   =D



I read it's difficult to beat the vido wise . What's your thoughts on the buds that you have?


----------



## HungryPanda

I have been listening to the NiceHCK DIY Graphene all day as my right ear canal is quite painful and they are awesome for $22


----------



## ozkan

snip3r77 said:


> I read it's difficult to beat the vido wise . What's your thoughts on the buds that you have?



Seriously Vido is unbeatable for $3.84. I don't know if it is only me but I hear more details with Vido than Monk, H180, SHE3580 or Seahf AWK F-32


----------



## HungryPanda

ozkan said:


> Seriously Vido is unbeatable for $3.84. I don't know if it is only me but I hear more details with Vido than Monk, H180, SHE3580 or Seahf AWK F-32



Now I just had to order these


----------



## snip3r77

ctaxxxx said:


> The ones that come with it are thick. You would need to buy a Monk+ EX Pack from Venture Electronics.



Can I get it offf from aliexpress . You mean it's just thinner that's all?


----------



## luckyeights

My apologies i meant that they were in the cart.  I dont have them yet any way.  I was typing that in a hurry had to go some where.  Im just tossing in all the ones of interest into the car since they are all on sale.


----------



## ctaxxxx

snip3r77 said:


> Can I get it offf from aliexpress . You mean it's just thinner that's all?



That works too. It's a thinner version of generic thick foams. Vido might sound too bright with those on depending on your tastes. My preference leans towards analytical signatures, so don't take my opinion as the best option. I was actually thinking of switching them to different foams today...


----------



## luckyeights

HungryPanda said:


> I ordered the K300's still on the fence if I want to go for the the K600



The standard k's 300 or the samsara?  Im on the fence between the samsara and the k600.  The samsara appears to be k's top model at the moment at least given its price.  I am also thinking it will be more compatible with more sources with them being 300ohm vs 600ohm.  I cant really find any review on either one however the only thing i have heard from someone that has both is that they were equally impressed by both and they both are better than the k500.  However they have not had a chance to actually fully compare both models.


----------



## snip3r77

ctaxxxx said:


> That works too. It's a thinner version of generic thick foams. Vido might sound too bright with those on depending on your tastes. My preference leans towards analytical signatures, so don't take my opinion as the best option. I was actually thinking of switching them to different foams today...



Seriously I'm very satisfied with this purchase and based on your comment that you can't get better SQ without paying a looooot more w.r.t to the Fido makes it difficult for an upgrade.
Fido bass has abit of a bass bloom but if there's more slam/sub bass it would be better and maybe a bit more aggressive with better dynamics. Is that a lot to ask for LOL ?


----------



## ricesteam (Aug 29, 2017)

Just received the NiceHCK DIY Graphene buds. Wow, color me impressed. I'm really amazed by these new budget buds coming out these days.


----------



## redkingjoe

snip3r77 said:


> Anyone here remembers the bass slam of vintage Sony earbuds ? any equivalent ones that are available "?



@Danneq is the expert in this! 

When I was a kid, I had a few Sony mdr-e484 which come with diamond amorphous diaphragm, class 1 Linear crystal-ofc litz cable, ceramic housing, gold plated unimatch plug, very advanced. The material and design of it was much better than many of the modern one. I listen to cassette tape with a Walkman. 

The sound was great and vivid. Great speed, bass, mids, treble...everything. Very balanced too. It impresses me most When I listen to hand clapping...it's so real. My friend, a musician who plays violin, listened to my Walkman e484 combo, told me that her audiophile hifi couldn't produce a hand-clapping so real and vivid and that frustrated her. I'm still looking for an earbud that can produce real hand-clapping sound.

Someone said that the best bass slam come from Sony mdr-e575! But e575 is very demanding on source.


----------



## DBaldock9

luckyeights said:


> The standard k's 300 or the samsara?  Im on the fence between the samsara and the k600.  The samsara appears to be k's top model at the moment at least given its price.  I am also thinking it will be more compatible with more sources with them being 300ohm vs 600ohm.  I cant really find any review on either one however the only thing i have heard from someone that has both is that they were equally impressed by both and they both are better than the k500.  However they have not had a chance to actually fully compare both models.



Is the K's 300 Samsara called that, because of the specific wire they're using on it?
Are both of the K's 300 earbuds "voiced" the same?


----------



## luckyeights

DBaldock9 said:


> Is the K's 300 Samsara called that, because of the specific wire they're using on it?
> Are both of the K's 300 earbuds "voiced" the same?



No from what i have heard they are tuned differently.  The one review i found said the Samara is like the k500's awesome bass mixed with the lush mids and highs of a blox.  Another person i found that owned the samsara said that its the k500 but with all the problems fixed with the high frequencies.  I couldnt find anythin else on them no real detailed reviews sadly.  Im thinking of getting them over the k600 as i think at 300ohm they would be more versatile.   Just wish i could find someone that could give me more details about them.


----------



## snip3r77

ricesteam said:


> Just received the NiceHCK DIY Graphene buds. Wow, color me impressed. I'm really amazed by these new budget buds coming out these days.


can you compare with Vido? Thanks


----------



## BoomBap08

Hey, guys! I'm currently on the fence of buying a Music Maker Ting. Just wanna hear your thoughts about it before I pull the trigger. And its comparison with its younger brother, the Tomahawk.


----------



## theoutsider

gc335 said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chi...iems-amps-dacs.684159/page-2008#post-12676708
> This post explains it.


Many thanks for the info, that is interesting


----------



## Jazzyfi

Can someone give a comparison between K's 300 Samsara vs Yinman 600? Both of them are in the same price category.


----------



## rahmish

Trippin said:


> Well at least yours lasted for a bit. Mine lasted 5 days


Mine lasted for two days


----------



## chaiyuta

redkingjoe said:


> @Danneq is the expert in this!
> 
> When I was a kid, I had a few Sony mdr-e484 which come with diamond amorphous diaphragm, class 1 Linear crystal-ofc litz cable, ceramic housing, gold plated unimatch plug, very advanced. The material and design of it was much better than many of the modern one. I listen to cassette tape with a Walkman.
> 
> ...



You are so much audio enthusiast kid. When I was kid, I ride bicycle and play video-games without audio-gear concern. I never own any vintage earbud from AIWA, Sony, JVC, etc..


----------



## ballog (Aug 30, 2017)

New Yincrow RW-777 from Jim HCK
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...1d-42c4-a535-3f56c593822e&transAbTest=ae803_2





Looks quite similar to Hifiman ES100 but seems better looking & better built (all-metal).


----------



## golov17

ballog said:


> New Yincrow RX-777 from Jim HCK
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...1d-42c4-a535-3f56c593822e&transAbTest=ae803_2
> 
> 
> Looks quite similar to Hifiman ES100 but seems better looking & better built (all-metal).


 Discount


----------



## JohnVoight (Aug 30, 2017)

Quick question -
Should I get Vido or EMX500 or Yincrow X6?
I have the Ty Hi-Z 32 and i find it great for my type of music and also prefer it while watching movies. I also have the Monk+ but i don't like it that much. I like bass that goes deep into the depths of hell but don't like boomy/thudding in the lower mids. Sub-bass is what i want.
Seeing my preference, what do you guys suggest?


----------



## ballog (Aug 30, 2017)

JohnVoight said:


> Quick question -
> Should I get Vido or EMX500 or Yincrow X6?
> I have the Ty Hi-Z 32 and i find it great for my type of music and also prefer it while watching movies. I also have the Monk+ but i don't like it that much. I like bass that goes deep into the depths of hell but don't like boomy/thudding in the lower mids. Sub-bass is what i want.
> Seeing my preference, what do you guys suggest?


Apparently these are Vidos at $1.99 :
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Spo...32830431361.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.JAZX4Y
So I think i've answered your question (i've already ordered 2).

P.S. Check the listing photos - there's a Vido label on one of the white earbud.


----------



## vladstef

ballog said:


> Apparently these are Vidos at $1.99 :
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Spo...32830431361.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.JAZX4Y
> So I think i've answered your question (i've already ordered 2).
> 
> P.S. Check the listing photos - there's a Vido label on one of the white earbud.



OMG, if these really are Vidos... I am laughing so hard right now for this 50% discount over the usual price, I mean, what in the world...


----------



## seanc6441

Saoshyant said:


> The Vido's strength is is bass where it's weakness if vocals.  Of those you're considering, the TP16 has respectable bass, the PK2 is balanced across the spectrum, and the RX-1 is a strong budget vocals earbud that's weakness is bass.  I'd probably recommend the RX-1 to compliment the Vido personally.[/QUOTE





vladstef said:


> OMG, if these really are Vidos... I am laughing so hard right now for this 50% discount over the usual price, I mean, what in the world...


Next thing they'll be paying you buy them


----------



## luckyeights

well I placed my order.  Vido, emx500, diy graphene mx760, diy pk2 and K's Samsara 300ohm.  Now just got to wait =(


----------



## HungryPanda

add the OurArt Ti7 and you have my list of buds


----------



## ricesteam

snip3r77 said:


> can you compare with Vido? Thanks



I wouldn't say one is better than the other. They both sound amazing. Just different sound signatures. If anything, Graphene has slightly better mids and soundstage, but depends on the song. 

If you have the budget, get one. It's good to have a variety of sound signatures in your collection in case you get bored of one. 

Budget earbud these days are simply incredible. I remember during the Yuin PK days, it's very easy to tell apart from budget to TOTL, like night and day. But today, the lines are becoming blurry.


----------



## Frederick Wang

Considering giving TP16 a try. Has anyone compared to TP16 and Vido earbuds, esp. in terms of clarity, instrument separation and soundstage?
I had several Vido once, they were inexpensive and nice, so I decided to do some recabling experiment on them, to my dismay, the recabled ones were not better sounding, putting an end to my soldering career.


----------



## Frederick Wang

They can be cheap like that, I bought some on taobao at a little bit more than 1 buck. 


vladstef said:


> OMG, if these really are Vidos... I am laughing so hard right now for this 50% discount over the usual price, I mean, what in the world...


----------



## Frederick Wang

ballog said:


> New Yincrow RW-777 from Jim HCK
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...1d-42c4-a535-3f56c593822e&transAbTest=ae803_2
> 
> 
> Looks quite similar to Hifiman ES100 but seems better looking & better built (all-metal).


Looking good!


----------



## teesui

ballog said:


> New Yincrow RW-777 from Jim HCK
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...1d-42c4-a535-3f56c593822e&transAbTest=ae803_2
> 
> 
> Looks quite similar to Hifiman ES100 but seems better looking & better built (all-metal).




Are we sure that's metal and not metallic looking plastic though? 

Anyways, these look good. Might just get a pair to add to my rotation in the office.


----------



## snip3r77

Feel the texture~


----------



## teesui

New Moondrop earbuds! Called Nameless. Looks to be more wallet friendly pricing. The stems look kinda long and uncomfortable though.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...670.html?spm=2114.12010615.0.0.5ce5139eHfJJEX


----------



## kamal007

No sale for Rose earphones in AliExpress? I tried searching for Masya and Mojito but couldn't find any


----------



## vladstef

teesui said:


> New Moondrop earbuds! Called Nameless. Looks to be more wallet friendly pricing. The stems look kinda long and uncomfortable though.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...670.html?spm=2114.12010615.0.0.5ce5139eHfJJEX


Just gorgeous! L-R indicator is very nicely done, I love it.


----------



## theoutsider

vladstef said:


> Just gorgeous! L-R indicator is very nicely done, I love it.


I agree, that is a very thoughtful design


----------



## teesui

cursing said:


> I agree, that is a very thoughtful design



So much more efficient feeling for something "tactile" to differentiate L & R than to look at the shells and try to make out the fading paint markings.


----------



## theoutsider

teesui said:


> New Moondrop earbuds! Called Nameless. Looks to be more wallet friendly pricing. The stems look kinda long and uncomfortable though.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...670.html?spm=2114.12010615.0.0.5ce5139eHfJJEX


I checked, as of now it is not available on taobao. So there's no way to tell how it sounds, I guess we will have to wait


----------



## theoutsider

teesui said:


> So much more efficient feeling for something "tactile" to differentiate L & R than to look at the shells and try to make out the fading paint markings.


I watch movies with lights off, so I have problem figuring out L and R on a Yuin shell. I have to place the earphones close to my screen before I wear them.


----------



## seanc6441

kamal007 said:


> No sale for Rose earphones in AliExpress? I tried searching for Masya and Mojito but couldn't find any


They're there! I bought the Masya at €87.


----------



## kamal007

seanc6441 said:


> They're there! I bought the Masya at €87.



I swear it didnt show up when I search for Rose Masya but looking at the suggestions at the bottom of the page leads me there. Weird 

Thanks though for the reply


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> They're there! I bought the Masya at €87.



Bought them for $95 ...still awaiting delivery. Have you received yours?


----------



## kamal007

activatorfly said:


> Bought them for $95 ...still awaiting delivery. Have you received yours?



Can you share the link or seller's name? Did you buy the normal or the wooden version?


----------



## activatorfly

kamal007 said:


> Can you share the link or seller's name? Did you buy the normal or the wooden version?


Normal
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...itor-Earbud-Earphone-With-2/32809843565.html?


----------



## vladstef

teesui said:


> So much more efficient feeling for something "tactile" to differentiate L & R than to look at the shells and try to make out the fading paint markings.


Absolutely true. This is why I love Auglamour RX-1, you can feel the skewed metal where the cable is and know which side you are holding without thinking about it.


----------



## rggz

cursing said:


> I watch movies with lights off, so I have problem figuring out L and R on a Yuin shell. I have to place the earphones close to my screen before I wear them.



I've solved this problem copying the K's earphones style. You just need to add a little memory wire or tape around the cable like that.


----------



## seanc6441

activatorfly said:


> Bought them for $95 ...still awaiting delivery. Have you received yours?


Nah only ordered a few days ago with free shipping lol.

Could be awhile...


----------



## seanc6441

kamal007 said:


> Can you share the link or seller's name? Did you buy the normal or the wooden version?


+1 for normal version.


----------



## seanc6441

activatorfly said:


> Normal
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...itor-Earbud-Earphone-With-2/32809843565.html?


I bought from a different seller but that seller shows a black version or a grey version...

There's no grey masya right? lol

I bet it's with/without cable more like!


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> I bought from a different seller but that seller shows a black version or a grey version...
> 
> There's no grey masya right? lol
> 
> I bet it's with/without cable more like!


Yeah sounds dodgy....


----------



## MusicalEar

seanc6441 said:


> I bought from a different seller but that seller shows a black version or a grey version...
> 
> There's no grey masya right? lol
> 
> I bet it's with/without cable more like!



You're correct. I asked him a few days ago about black/grey versions - both black, cheaper one without the cable.


----------



## activatorfly

MusicalEar said:


> You're correct. I asked him a few days ago about black/grey versions - both black, cheaper one without the cable.


I thought the cable was included....the seller shouldn't mislead by advertising: "Earbud Earphone With 2-pin Interface Free Shipping"....should just be upfront & state: with/without cable. 
(I'll make my own custom balanced cable for these buds anyway.....)

Tbh not really into the quality of the cable...as this review slates it for being "springy":



"A Music Loving Rose"
*Pros* - SUPER Silky Smooth Sound, Great Build Quality, Enjoyable Playback Presentation
*Cons* - Cable Curls a Bit


----------



## seanc6441

activatorfly said:


> I thought the cable was included....the seller shouldn't mislead by advertising: "Earbud Earphone With 2-pin Interface Free Shipping"....should just be upfront & state: with/without cable.
> (I'll make my own custom balanced cable for these buds anyway.....)
> 
> Tbh not really into the quality of the cable...as this review slates it for being "springy":
> ...


Yeah don't understand that. It's nice having the option of no cable but it should be listed clearly as most people would want a cable!


----------



## activatorfly

MusicalEar said:


> You're correct. I asked him a few days ago about black/grey versions - both black, cheaper one without the cable.


Think I'll be opening a dispute about this....


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> Yeah don't understand that. It's nice having the option of no cable but it should be listed clearly as most people would want a cable!


Yeah doesn't make sense...you'd naturally assume one would be included in the price - plus I can't read Chinese!!!...maybe that's how he informs the option for "no cable."


----------



## seanc6441

activatorfly said:


> Think I'll be opening a dispute about this....


Yeah I was wondering how you got it for $95 when the lowest I could work out was $98!

Lucky you he may send you the cable separately for free although the inconvenience of opening a dispute is probably not so lucky I guess.

Hope you get your cable!


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> Yeah I was wondering how you got it for $95 when the lowest I could work out was $98!
> 
> Lucky you he may send you the cable separately for free although the inconvenience of opening a dispute is probably not so lucky I guess.
> 
> Hope you get your cable!


Thanks! ....Yeah I've had no previous issues with AE - so if he sends a cable later, hopefully i can avoid opening a dispute!


----------



## activatorfly

Just checked the impedance - it's really low at 12Ω !...does that mean that a balanced cable isn't an option? I've been adding high impedance buds to my collection such as: TY Hi-Z HP-150s to convert to balanced....


----------



## Spider fan (Aug 30, 2017)

cursing said:


> I watch movies with lights off, so I have problem figuring out L and R on a Yuin shell. I have to place the earphones close to my screen before I wear them.


The reason I don't mind the Vido J-Cable is it is easy to tell right vs left when using in the dark.


----------



## Spider fan

ballog said:


> Apparently these are Vidos at $1.99 :
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Spo...32830431361.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.JAZX4Y
> So I think i've answered your question (i've already ordered 2).
> 
> ...


Thanks for the headsup.  I ordered 5 more backups.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi (Aug 30, 2017)

Are those Vido as Over hype as the Qian39? Are you guys sure that those are Vido, the Link that says Sport.


----------



## ozkan

MidNighTempest said:


> Are those Vido as Over hype as the Qian39? Are you guys sure that those are Vido, the Link that says Sport.



I haven't tried Qian39 but I wouldn't say Vido is over hyped for the price. We are talking about an earbud which sells only for $3.84.

 I also have H180, Monk/Monk+, SHE3580 and Seahf F32 and owned Zen 2.0

Among all these earbuds Vido is still my favorite. It is really incredible how you can get almost top-tier sound from a very 
cheap earbud.


----------



## seanc6441

ozkan said:


> I haven't tried Qian39 but I wouldn't say Vido is over hyped for the price. We are talking about an earbud which sells only for $3.84.
> 
> I also have H180, Monk/Monk+, SHE3580 and Seahf F32 and owned Zen 2.0
> 
> ...


Wait you're saying your prefer Vido to Zen 2.0? :0

Still waiting for mine to arrive and I've never actually heard the Zen series but at the stark price differences that statement makes me want to try the vido right now


----------



## redkingjoe

chaiyuta said:


> You are so much audio enthusiast kid. When I was kid, I ride bicycle and play video-games without audio-gear concern. I never own any vintage earbud from AIWA, Sony, JVC, etc..



Lucky guy! You've got video games to play as kid. My part in Video game was looking only.

My family was so poor that I can afford an earphone only after I started working. 

I bought the Sony mdr e484 because of the spec. It turned out 484 is still having a superior spec as of today.


----------



## snip3r77

redkingjoe said:


> Lucky guy! You've got video games to play as kid. My part in Video game was looking only.
> 
> My family was so poor that I can afford an earphone only after I started working.
> 
> I bought the Sony mdr e484 because of the spec. It turned out 484 is still having a superior spec as of today.


484 still available lol


----------



## redkingjoe (Aug 30, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> 484 still available lol



Yeh. The 484 is basically the only one that deserves chasing after.

The ceramic housing is damned durable. Most other Sony use just plastics.

The class 1 Lc-ofc litz cable, which is better than 6n ofc, is superior to most ofc cables in the market. E.g. Moondrop is only using 4n when I look through its website.

Are you looking for a pair? I saw that they were traded ar around us$200 in this forum.


----------



## mochill

484 for $200, where???


----------



## redkingjoe

TE="mochill, post: 13691711, member: 290781"]484 for $200, where???[/QUOTE]

My bad it was $300...sold not long ago.


----------



## theoutsider

vladstef said:


> Absolutely true. This is why I love Auglamour RX-1, you can feel the skewed metal where the cable is and know which side you are holding without thinking about it.


lol same with me, can't agree with you more..


rggz said:


> I've solved this problem copying the K's earphones style. You just need to add a little memory wire or tape around the cable like that.


i added cellophane tape on top of the right shell, maybe i should just mark it with white paint, makes life easier for me


----------



## Trippin

What modifications could I make to shells or drivers with foam, blu tack and cotton to give the bud more bass and/or less treble?


----------



## DBaldock9

Trippin said:


> What modifications could I make to shells or drivers with foam, blu tack and cotton to give the bud more bass and/or less treble?



One person has mentioned placing some thin adhesive-backed foil on the front of the earbud cover, to attenuate the Treble.
It might work best under a Full Foam.


----------



## TheMadcap

Anyone had a chance to try K's 300 samsara?

I'm in between Rose Masya and K's 500 and recently saw that there is a new earbud. Wondering how does it sound.


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> Yeah don't understand that. It's nice having the option of no cable but it should be listed clearly as most people would want a cable!


Received message from seller....seems like cable is included in the package after all!


----------



## chaiyuta

@TheMadcap : There are some review in the last few page of this thread.


----------



## seanc6441

activatorfly said:


> Received message from seller....seems like cable is included in the package after all!


That's good news. Hope we both enjoy the Masya then. I'm hoping it will be my daily earbud for a long time


----------



## theoutsider

nabbed a Moondrop Nameless, a Toneking Tomahawk and a 1more earbud...  I think I am done with this haul  

now comes the period of anticipation...


----------



## HungryPanda

Grabbed the tomahawk and a rose masya with wood


----------



## golov17 (Aug 31, 2017)

teesui said:


> New Moondrop earbuds! Called Nameless. Looks to be more wallet friendly pricing. The stems look kinda long and uncomfortable though.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...670.html?spm=2114.12010615.0.0.5ce5139eHfJJEX


Must try a budget Moondrop


----------



## fairx

MidNighTempest said:


> Are those Vido as Over hype as the Qian39? Are you guys sure that those are Vido, the Link that says Sport.


people hype vido because partly the ridiculous price to performance ratio. But yes vido is really that good. The focus is excellent IMO. 

Am I the only one thinking qian39 is not hype? It holds very good spot in very open and layered sounding  earbud  for a few buck. Although not as all rounder as vido but it's a must have IMO. Along with vido and monk+


----------



## xavierng1

not sure if i want to get rose masya or the blur. anyone?


----------



## snip3r77

fairx said:


> people hype vido because partly the ridiculous price to performance ratio. But yes vido is really that good. The focus is excellent IMO.
> 
> Am I the only one thinking qian39 is not hype? It holds very good spot in very open and layered sounding  earbud  for a few buck. Although not as all rounder as vido but it's a must have IMO. Along with vido and monk+



Fido is my first earbud . I'm so satisfied that I fear treading into expensive buds that are merely sidegrades


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> Grabbed the tomahawk and a rose masya with wood



Wood version looks beautiful but when i'm spending near €90 on an earbud I start considering where I can save a few quid lol

Maybe I'll just glue a piece of wood onto my black version :,)


----------



## RyanM

snip3r77 said:


> Fido is my first earbud . I'm so satisfied that I fear treading into expensive buds that are merely sidegrades



Try the **** EMX500. You will not regret it and it's still very cheap.


----------



## seanc6441

RyanM said:


> Try the **** EMX500. You will not regret it and it's still very cheap.


are the fengru/**** versions of the EMX500 all the same? they look identical.


----------



## chaiyuta

Moondrop Nameless driver is 13.5mm. I assume that its shell is smaller than typical MX500 shell, and it states that it has 4-wire. That means it could be re-plugged to 2.5mm. balanced plug.


----------



## RyanM

seanc6441 said:


> are the fengru/**** versions of the EMX500 all the same? they look identical.



It's hard to say. I want to say that Fengru makes this version, but navigating through sloppy technical specs on Ali Express is not the best way to find answers. I say "****" because this is the seller I purchased from and there's been reports that there is 2 versions of the DIY MX500 - and they are both great - that are slightly different in sound sig, yet look identical.


----------



## seanc6441

RyanM said:


> It's hard to say. I want to say that Fengru makes this version, but navigating through sloppy technical specs on Ali Express is not the best way to find answers. I say "****" because this is the seller I purchased from and there's been reports that there is 2 versions of the DIY MX500 - and they are both great - that are slightly different in sound sig, yet look identical.


Ah yes I think i've seen two versions of MX500 DIY but I assume that once the name EMX500 DIY is in the title it's the same earphone. I see many sellers have it listed and I purchased the one with Fengru in the title.

Thanks!


----------



## ATi7500

anyone feels there are already too many models with little differences, and it's hard to keep up..?


----------



## TheMadcap

I'm mostly impressed by the resolution of the sound. And I hate sibilance, I am using pfe232 right now, happy with the detail level but a bit prone to sibilance. K's 500, K's 300 samsara, Rose Masya, Rose Mojito, by those of 4 which one would you suggest me. Does Mojito worth the difference with Masya. I'm planning to buy Masya right now, but impressions are it is vocal emphasized and i like flat response more.


----------



## theoutsider

seanc6441 said:


> are the fengru/**** versions of the EMX500 all the same? they look identical.


I heard the QC is crap...


----------



## theoutsider

chaiyuta said:


> Moondrop Nameless driver is 13.5mm. I assume that its shell is smaller than typical MX500 shell, and it states that it has 4-wire. That means it could be re-plugged to 2.5mm. balanced plug.





 
Nameless in the wild (probably somewhere in ChengDu). 

Also there is an unboxing article of Nameless (in simplified chinese):
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/5297472909


----------



## xavierng1

which earbuds are good for blues/rock? i am looking for good soundstage/imaging, detailed or clarity and emphasize on the guitar sounds  (electric guitar especially). i am looking at the rose masya for now


----------



## mbwilson111

Right now the only bud I  have is a Monk plus.  I find the sound to be excellent for acoustiv vocal albums...singer sonwriter...folk etc.  With some other music that depends on true sub bass I just am not getting it with these. i do not need thumping artificially booted bass but I do want to hear what is meant to be there.  I do have headphones and iems that will do that but I am interested in having a couple of nice,but not expensive, buds.  I do have a Boarseman MX98 and a **** pt15 on order.  I am worried that the **** might be too bright.  I cannot handle sibilance or fatiguing sound. Any suggestions as to what else I should consider?

Also the Monks feel a little large in my ear.  Are some a bit smaller in diameter? Maybe I just have not learned how to fit them properly.  Is it normal to get more sound and a bit more bass when pressing on them while the music is playing?


----------



## theoutsider

mbwilson111 said:


> Right now the only bud I  have is a Monk plus.  I find the sound to be excellent for acoustiv vocal albums...singer sonwriter...folk etc.  With some other music that depends on true sub bass I just am not getting it with these. i do not need thumping artificially booted bass but I do want to hear what is meant to be there.  I do have headphones and iems that will do that but I am interested in having a couple of nice,but not expensive, buds.  I do have a Boarseman MX98 and a **** pt15 on order.  I am worried that the **** might be too bright.  I cannot handle sibilance or fatiguing sound. Any suggestions as to what else I should consider?
> 
> Also the Monks feel a little large in my ear.  Are some a bit smaller in diameter? Maybe I just have not learned how to fit them properly.  Is it normal to get more sound and a bit more bass when pressing on them while the music is playing?


All the earbuds with Yuin-Docomo shells (all those earbuds with PK as codenames) are smaller and more comfortable to wear than Monk Plus (that is using standard MX500 shell). Qian 39 is also quite a bit smaller and lighter than Monk Plus.


----------



## seanc6441

xavierng1 said:


> which earbuds are good for blues/rock? i am looking for good soundstage/imaging, detailed or clarity and emphasize on the guitar sounds  (electric guitar especially). i am looking at the rose masya for now


sounds like a good choice i bought the Masya a few days ago for its soundstage, separation and detail


----------



## xavierng1

seanc6441 said:


> sounds like a good choice i bought the Masya a few days ago for its soundstage, separation and detail


 thanks for the reply, appreciate it! just need some opinion before getting one


----------



## TheMadcap

seanc6441 said:


> sounds like a good choice i bought the Masya a few days ago for its soundstage, separation and detail



How much better is mojito, 'cos price is the twice.


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 31, 2017)

mbwilson111 said:


> Right now the only bud I  have is a Monk plus.  I find the sound to be excellent for acoustiv vocal albums...singer sonwriter...folk etc.  With some other music that depends on true sub bass I just am not getting it with these. i do not need thumping artificially booted bass but I do want to hear what is meant to be there.  I do have headphones and iems that will do that but I am interested in having a couple of nice,but not expensive, buds.  I do have a Boarseman MX98 and a **** pt15 on order.  I am worried that the **** might be too bright.  I cannot handle sibilance or fatiguing sound. Any suggestions as to what else I should consider?
> 
> Also the Monks feel a little large in my ear.  Are some a bit smaller in diameter? Maybe I just have not learned how to fit them properly.  Is it normal to get more sound and a bit more bass when pressing on them while the music is playing?



I ordered the EMX500 and NICEHCK DIY PK2 from aliexpress. Obviously having not heard them myself I cannot say for certain they will suit your needs however from what I read these seem like fantastic mid range earbuds for a very good price between $10-20 each.

The emx500 is said to have a balanced slightly u shaped but warm and detailed sound sig. Good soundstage for an earbud at this level also.

The DIY PK2 is supposedly similar sounding to the Shozy Cygnus which is a well regarded earbud great for vocals and all round performer.

Can't go wrong to start there! As for the shell the diy pk2 has a smaller shell which may fit better. the emx500 has the standard mx500 shell like the monks.

The Masya is in a much higher price bracket at $95-105 but it does tick all your boxes i guess. if you want to spend that much. I myself have one on order because ive heard such good things about it!


----------



## seanc6441

TheMadcap said:


> How much better is mojito, 'cos price is the twice.


Can't say myself. The reviews here on Headfi seem to indicate that the Mojito is an upgrade all across the board but has a more analytical sound while the maysa is possibly more 'fun' and warm sounding in the mids. Just from what I've heard, you can check the reviews and see for yourself if you feel like it


----------



## seanc6441

xavierng1 said:


> thanks for the reply, appreciate it! just need some opinion before getting one



check the reviews of the masya here on headfi, mostly glowing praise


----------



## Narayan23

fairx said:


> people hype vido because partly the ridiculous price to performance ratio. But yes vido is really that good. The focus is excellent IMO.
> 
> Am I the only one thinking qian39 is not hype? It holds very good spot in very open and layered sounding  earbud  for a few buck. Although not as all rounder as vido but it's a must have IMO. Along with vido and monk+



You´re not alone, after getting over the initial Vido wow factor I find myself enjoying the Qian 39 more, they´re slightly warmer which makes them more enjoyable with music for me, and the fit is much better, I can´t wear the Vido´s when I´m outdoors since they keep falling out of my ears, the Qian with Heigi donuts are perfect fit wise.


----------



## voxdub

Can anyone recommend a bud with a similar sound signature to the EMX500 without the shoddy QC, in the couple of weeks I had it until the right bud broke I absolutely loved it, I'd buy another in a heartbeat if I thought it was a one off but given the number of issues people have reported it seems all too common.


----------



## Danneq (Sep 1, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> Anyone here remembers the bass slam of vintage Sony earbuds ? any equivalent ones that are available "?



Late reply, but I've been a bit busy lately.

I have owned E252, E282 & E484. I bought all of them a few years ago on the second hand market and sold them just a few months ago.

E484 is the Sony with the most bass slam. For a long time I could not find an earbud with bass as good as E484. But the last few years have brought some amzazing sounding earbuds, from budget to TOTL ones.

Something like Vido for around $4 comes close to the bass slam of E484. That's pretty amazing. Personally, I find Cypherus CampFred to beat E484 when it comes to bass. CampFred 1 is discontinued but CampFred 2 is said to have even better bass. CF2 costs $199 excluding shipping.

Nowadays you cannot find second hand vintage Sony earbuds for less than $200, so CF2 is a good alternative.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Aug 31, 2017)

cursing said:


> All the earbuds with Yuin-Docomo shells (all those earbuds with PK as codenames) are smaller and more comfortable to wear than Monk Plus (that is using standard MX500 shell). Qian 39 is also quite a bit smaller and lighter than Monk Plus.



That was very helpful.  I now have a Qian 39 and a PK2 on order.

I also like the look of the Auglamour RX1, but have not yet figured out if it would suit me.  Does anyone want to tell me about it.  Meanwhile I will try to find some reviews.  This is a huge thread to search through!


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 31, 2017)

mbwilson111 said:


> That was very helpful.  I now have a Qian 39 and a PK2 on order.
> 
> I also like the look of the Auglamour RX1, but have not yet figured out if it would suit me.  Does anyone want to tell me about it.  Meanwhile I will try to find some reviews.  This is a huge thread to search through!


I have it on order(RX1). Everyone in here seems to consider it silky smooth and detailed in the mids with pleasant high's not too bright. But it is somewhat bass light judging from the majority of opinions I've heard.

However there was a post in the diy earbud thread about modding it to produce a more tonally balanced sound with more bass quantity and slightly less mid centric. It does involve opening up the earbud housing though and using cotton or a thin foam behind the driver.

So if you like bass extension, quantity and sub bass maybe this is not for you! It's supposed to be excellent in the mid ranges and very good in the high's though if that's what you prefer! Personally I bought it to test it out and I'll probably do the mod to it because I like to my earbuds to have presence in all frequencies.

It would be ideal for podcasts/audiobooks and maybe for night listening as it is supposed to be comfortable to wear even when your head is resting against a pillow etc. So it may replace my earpods for that purpose. Build quality it excellent I've heard. 

(the review of it here on headfi seems to contradict what I've heard about the bass/sub bass quantity, I guess there are many opinions about it. I'll give you my own when I receive the earbud if you want)


----------



## voxdub

mbwilson111 said:


> That was very helpful.  I now have a Qian 39 and a PK2 on order.
> 
> I also like the look of the Auglamour RX1, but have not yet figured out if it would suit me.  Does anyone want to tell me about it.  Meanwhile I will try to find some reviews.  This is a huge thread to search through!



The 39 is good, really comfortable due to its size and good bass, sadly for me the highs are just too bright and fatiguing for a lot of the music I listen to, that said I must have put over 50hrs through it so I can't dislike it that much.


----------



## theoutsider

mbwilson111 said:


> That was very helpful.  I now have a Qian 39 and a PK2 on order.
> 
> I also like the look of the Auglamour RX1, but have not yet figured out if it would suit me.  Does anyone want to tell me about it.  Meanwhile I will try to find some reviews.  This is a huge thread to search through!


I have both Qian 39 and PK2s. I have small ear canals, so Qian 39 served me very well for movie watching through my laptop. However Qian 39 feels insubstantial and you can hear static when you move its cable. Sound wise, Qian 39 is airy but its resolution is not comparable to earbuds that cost 10 bucks or more. I recently acquired a pair of PK2s, it is currently replacing Q39 as my workhorse earbuds. In comparison, PK2s is well-constructed, physically smaller than Monk+ and capable of delivering more detailed sound than Q39. Don't get me wrong, Q39 is certainly a good buy and I have used up more than its worth now.

I have Auglamour RX1 as well. I was curious and I bought it for its metal housing (though I think it looks gaudy in the flesh). RX1 is not really an all-rounder earphone as it sounds bland and congested to begin with. Somehow they are great for listening to vocal tracks because they are mellow. I do use RX1 every now and then for resetting my ears, since they sound positively different (distinctive) from the rest. They are also more comfortable to wear than Monk+, owing to its comparatively rounder shape and perceptibly smaller dimensions.

I also took a bet and pre-ordered a Moondrop Nameless yesterday. It is made of metal (at least it has been explicitly spelled out in its product descriptions), looks great and lean (in pictures), and will potentially share the same sound signature as the (a lot) more expensive Liebesleid and VX pro (they all have 13.5mm drivers). Since it is a stripped-down model, I believe it will be smaller and lighter than the higher-end models.


----------



## jogawag (Sep 1, 2017)

I bought "Seahf AWK-F32P" earbuds in AliExpress for $6.5. It's design seems like AKG K312P.
And I found it has really the same sound as K312P. (So, please forget about "Transcend's" that I commented before.)
K312P has more bass than K314P and well balanced AKG sound. So I like K312P and  Seahf AWK-F32P more.
I am using MP thin foam on them.

For people who like AKG sound, I recommend "Seahf AWK - F32P".


----------



## HungryPanda

just received the Seaf AWK-F32T and KZ Zs1 today. First impressions are that the Seaf has a very well balanced sound, the ZS1's are bass monsters yet very clear mids and highs. Happy listening ahead


----------



## Lv100Pidgeot

A couple weeks ago my Shozy BK/stardust showed up and I've been listening to them quite a bit since then. I think they're incredible. The amount of separation and soundstage that they offer is something I've only heard in open back over ears before now. I'm a little annoyed at myself for spending as much as I did on my Orions, which will now only be used when I really need isolation while on the go.


----------



## luckyeights

so Rose Masya...  Iv had these buds for some time but never really cared much about them they sounded thin to me and tended to fall out easily.    So I busted them out again to listen, same issue as before bright and thin, they also feel lose and fall out easily.  So while fiddling with them i found that they sounded amazing if i put pressure on them to make them seal.   So i started to try and find ways to sort of twist or wedge them into my ears to get a seal and i can get them to seal now and they do sound really good.  They are finicky to get them to seal and i would imagine some people might not be able to get them to seal at all.  They are not like mx500 shells that just sort of envelop that whole area and seal by default they require some fiddling which can be an annoyance but they do sound really good if you can get that seal.


----------



## seanc6441

luckyeights said:


> so Rose Masya...  Iv had these buds for some time but never really cared much about them they sounded thin to me and tended to fall out easily.    So I busted them out again to listen, same issue as before bright and thin, they also feel lose and fall out easily.  So while fiddling with them i found that they sounded amazing if i put pressure on them to make them seal.   So i started to try and find ways to sort of twist or wedge them into my ears to get a seal and i can get them to seal now and they do sound really good.  They are finicky to get them to seal and i would imagine some people might not be able to get them to seal at all.  They are not like mx500 shells that just sort of envelop that whole area and seal by default they require some fiddling which can be an annoyance but they do sound really good if you can get that seal.



Ok thanks for the tip. I find mx500 earbuds don't seal well for me, yet the tomahawks do. I think it's the housing shape rather than diameter. I like large earbuds that sit well on the ear or smaller ones that sit in the ear, but the mx500 is sort of a middle ground that doesn't work for me.

The masya looks like a big diameter but it's got a thin front face that will probably sit snuggly in my ear anyway. I like this style hope it fits well for me!


----------



## ricesteam

Lv100Pidgeot said:


> A couple weeks ago my Shozy BK/stardust showed up and I've been listening to them quite a bit since then. I think they're incredible. The amount of separation and soundstage that they offer is something I've only heard in open back over ears before now. I'm a little annoyed at myself for spending as much as I did on my Orions, which will now only be used when I really need isolation while on the go.



How's the bass? I want to get it but it's so expensive.


----------



## kvad

luckyeights said:


> so Rose Masya...  Iv had these buds for some time but never really cared much about them they sounded thin to me and tended to fall out easily.    So I busted them out again to listen, same issue as before bright and thin, they also feel lose and fall out easily.  So while fiddling with them i found that they sounded amazing if i put pressure on them to make them seal.   So i started to try and find ways to sort of twist or wedge them into my ears to get a seal and i can get them to seal now and they do sound really good.  They are finicky to get them to seal and i would imagine some people might not be able to get them to seal at all.  They are not like mx500 shells that just sort of envelop that whole area and seal by default they require some fiddling which can be an annoyance but they do sound really good if you can get that seal.



Have you tried an using a rubber ring with foams on top? That does the trick for me with the Masya and the Mojito.


----------



## seanc6441

kvad said:


> Have you tried an using a rubber ring with foams on top? That does the trick for me with the Masya and the Mojito.


That's a good suggestion! Maybe Heigi foams would work too as they have the rubber ring inside them already. I have ordered Heigi normal + donut foams for my new earbuds when they arrive I might try it on the masya if the fit isn't right.


----------



## vladstef

There is a very weird thing happening with my audio journey lately. I like, almost love how KZ ZS5 sounds, obviously they are extremely good for the price, but I generally expect a little bit more out of mid range and vocals (not saying that ZS5 is bad in this department, just that this could be improved imho). Now, people love to compare ZS5 with many times more expensive IEMs and some even like it better than MaGaosi K3 Pro, 1more Quad and even LZ A4. I didn't get to hear these models but I suspect that they are relatively close in terms of overall sound quality, these are all some of the best IEMs below 200$ and they differ in many aspects but mostly build quality, package and accessories, sound quality being amazing for all of them.

The thing that is really confusing for me is that I enjoy Vido earbuds much more than ZS5 when I am at home. These can be found for about 2$ currently... There is just so much energy coming out Vidos. Obviously, this is making me question everything, starting from my sanity. Has anyone encountered something remotely similar in terms of perception of performance per dollar and other anomalies in the matrix? Essentially, I like 2$ earbuds more than 25$ KZ ZS5, and ZS5 is that good that some people even prefer it to 200$ LZ A4...
Some weird stuff happening in the world and Vido is at the top of my list of impossible things that exist.
(I guess many budget earbuds would fit nicely here, replace 'Vido' -> 'any budget good sounding earbud')


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 1, 2017)

vladstef said:


> There is a very weird thing happening with my audio journey lately. I like, almost love how KZ ZS5 sounds, obviously they are extremely good for the price, but I generally expect a little bit more out of mid range and vocals (not saying that ZS5 is bad in this department, just that this could be improved imho). Now, people love to compare ZS5 with many times more expensive IEMs and some even like it better than MaGaosi K3 Pro, 1more Quad and even LZ A4. I didn't get to hear these models but I suspect that they are relatively close in terms of overall sound quality, these are all some of the best IEMs below 200$ and they differ in many aspects but mostly build quality, package and accessories, sound quality being amazing for all of them.
> 
> The thing that is really confusing for me is that I enjoy Vido earbuds much more than ZS5 when I am at home. These can be found for about 2$ currently... There is just so much energy coming out Vidos. Obviously, this is making me question everything, starting from my sanity. Has anyone encountered something remotely similar in terms of perception of performance per dollar and other anomalies in the matrix? Essentially, I like 2$ earbuds more than 25$ KZ ZS5, and ZS5 is that good that some people even prefer it to 200$ LZ A4...
> Some weird stuff happening in the world and Vido is at the top of my list of impossible things that exist.
> (I guess many budget earbuds would fit nicely here, replace 'Vido' -> 'any budget good sounding earbud')



Well I have the Vido, Rx1, DIY PK2, DIY EMX500 and Masya coming soon (went a bit crazy during the Aliexpress sale),

I'll be very interested to compare the sound of the vido>pk2>masya at their respective  price ranges to see if you get what you pay for or if the budget kings really can compete or come close to it.

I'm glad I never liked the feeling of IEM's in my ear because i'm loving this earbud game i've gotten into


----------



## vladstef

seanc6441 said:


> Well I have the Vido, Rx1, DIY PK2, DIY EMX500 and Masya coming soon (went a bit crazy during the Aliexpress sale),
> 
> I'll be very interested to compare the sound of the vido>pk2>masya at their respective  price ranges to see if you get what you pay for or if the budget kings really can compete or come close to it.
> 
> I'm glad I never liked the feeling of IEM's in my ear because i'm loving this earbud game i've gotten into



I have 3 models out of these, Vido, EMX and RX1. Vido is smooth and wonderful with strong bass, EMX is very similar with more energy in higher frequencies (I had a brief listening time with these, I had to open one side due to bass rattling and managed to disconnect the wires from the driver, couldn't fix it as I have yet to go home where I have soldering kit), EMX and Vidos are similar and work as a side step to one another, EMX having better cable and actual accessories and that's why it's slightly more expensive, same value in my eyes.
RX1 is a beast that is less capable for wider range of music but just pure bliss with vocals and instruments, this one is a miracle for some who can utilize it, for others it's probably not worth it. If I'd have to keep one out of these, it would be RX1, but I spend more time listening to Vidos which are impressive with everything, and for that special moment, I take out RX1 and bask in vocals and violins. For me, 2 hours of listening time with RX1 was already worth the 20$, "I was Born for This" from Journey soundtrack with RX1 sounds like a piece of heaven.


----------



## seanc6441

vladstef said:


> I have 3 models out of these, Vido, EMX and RX1. Vido is smooth and wonderful with strong bass, EMX is very similar with more energy in higher frequencies (I had a brief listening time with these, I had to open one side due to bass rattling and managed to disconnect the wires from the driver, couldn't fix it as I have yet to go home where I have soldering kit), EMX and Vidos are similar and work as a side step to one another, EMX having better cable and actual accessories and that's why it's slightly more expensive, same value in my eyes.
> RX1 is a beast that is less capable for wider range of music but just pure bliss with vocals and instruments, this one is a miracle for some who can utilize it, for others it's probably not worth it. If I'd have to keep one out of these, it would be RX1, but I spend more time listening to Vidos which are impressive with everything, and for that special moment, I take out RX1 and bask in vocals and violins. For me, 2 hours of listening time with RX1 was already worth the 20$, "I was Born for This" from Journey soundtrack with RX1 sounds like a piece of heaven.


How is the RX1 comfort? I'm thinking of using these for podcasts/audiobooks as realistically I don't see them besting the Masya but could replace my earpods for the purpose mentioned above.


----------



## vladstef

seanc6441 said:


> How is the RX1 comfort? I'm thinking of using these for podcasts/audiobooks as realistically I don't see them besting the Masya but could replace my earpods for the purpose mentioned above.


They are one the smaller side, I could easily sleep with them and not feel them in my ears. I wear them cable over ears and i put them in my ears side ways, not facing my head but facing forward, driver goes sideways in my ears - insanely better sound as this focuses it directly towards ear canal (putting them normally in my ears, they create some peaks which are not very pleasant)


----------



## ctaxxxx (Sep 1, 2017)

I got my earbuds back in 2.5mm balanced! Listening to them now through iBasso DX200 AMP1 and AMP3. AMP1 sounds kind of sterile(neutral) as usual, but AMP3 adds more musicality and detail. The most noticeable difference is soundstage and imaging! It's like all my buds got upgraded (again!).

The QFred buds were the most affected by this. Soundstage grew *immensely* and voices sound almost hyper-realistic now that it's kind of weird lol. It's like I'm listening to different buds or literal HD650s. I may never buy an open back headphone again. 

*Edit:* I may need to change the rankings around now.


----------



## springbay

I've been away from the thread for about a week, but I've read up tonight and notice quite a few questions about the new Kbuds due to AliExpress having discounts this week.
At the same time I've gotten PMs from five different members about my impressions on the new Kbuds so I guess I'd better post some of my PM-answers here, if someone is on the fence.

My impressions are mainly from listening to both buds with an Xduoo X3 stacked with a Jazz 7.0 amp on high gain, and with donuts on both buds.
I actually never got the normal K300. The K300 pro are quite to my liking but are kind of two steps behind the K500 in overall tonality.
I have the K500 with version 2 cable, single ended termination, and use them with donuts as well.

My findings.
I've loved the K500 for about a year (ever since I got them). My favourite part of the K500 is the way they handle the low frequencies, being distinct/exact/punchy with drums without sounding bloated. What I feel they have been somewhat lacking, is in the high frequencies. To me they are kind of grainy sounding in the high frequencies on some music, while still being very detailed.

The K600 and the Samsara are to my ears, with my set up, both upgrades to the K500. Mainly in the way that the grainy high frequencies are gone while still doing the mid and low frequencies as fulfilling as the K500.
The difference between the new buds would be, to my ears, that the Samsara extends a bit further in the low frequencies while the K600 are a bit brighter and somewhat more neutral sounding. I'm not talking different tonality between them. They actually sound kind of similar, and also similar to the K500. I would not have spotted the difference between the Samsara and K600 without sitting down actively listening and looking to spot minor differences.

I'm not the right person to ask if it's worth buying the new ones, because I'm a bud hoarder and someone ought to close down my AliExpress account.
My biased advice would be that if you don't feel that the K500 are lacking to your liking in the high frequencies, then you are set for life and don't need the new ones.
If you're like, what the heck, the buds are on sale until 170901 and I'm willing to risk it - then I'd say you wont be disappointed. And my last advice would be that the cable on the Samsara is the nicest one I've encountered, while the cable on the K600 is kind of meh (for the price).

Someone asked me to compare some music, and which one would be best. My answer was:
"Neither of the buds are embarrassing themselves with the genres. I think it comes down to what one prefers.
The k600 present the songs in a more neutral/balanced manner, while the Samsara have the more engaging and intimate edge.
[Schumann - Symphony No 4 in D minor, Op 120] is a K600 winner, while [Miles Davis - Sketches Of Spain] and [Stacey Kent - The Ice Hotel] benefit more from the Samsara."

I can say as much as that neither of them will disappoint you. They are both terrific buds and if I were to do a current rank of my buds it would be:
1. Cypherus Audio CAX Black
2. -
3. -
4. K's Earphone K300 Samsara, K's Earphone K600 and Cypherus Audio CampFred 2
5. K's Earphone 500

---
I'm going to bed now, so I will probably not be able to answer more questions before the AE shopping week is over. But there will always be Singles day (11:11) in a couple of weeks and by then there will hopefully be others opinions on the buds as well


----------



## Moonstar (Sep 2, 2017)

My K's Samsara is on the way and I am a happy owner of the Rose Masya that I love for it's beautiful Vocal presentation and the relative big soundstage. Did anyone of you had the chance to compare the Samsara with the Maysa. My only complain for the Masya is the sometimes annoying fit for me. If you any recommendations for other Earbuds that have the taste of a full sized Openback Headphone like the Senhheiser HD650 its a welcome for me 

I am listening to a wide variety of genres like pop , rock, jazz, Soundtracks etc. My main source's are the Chord Mojo, Smart Player D200+ (aka YinLvMei D200+) and Zishan Z2.


----------



## redkingjoe

ctaxxxx said:


> I got my earbuds back in 2.5mm balanced! Listening to them now through iBasso DX200 AMP1 and AMP3. AMP1 sounds kind of sterile(neutral) as usual, but AMP3 adds more musicality and detail. The most noticeable difference is soundstage and imaging! It's like all my buds got upgraded (again!).
> 
> The QFred buds were the most affected by this. Soundstage grew *immensely* and voices sound almost hyper-realistic now that it's kind of weird lol. It's like I'm listening to different buds or literal HD650s. I may never buy an open back headphone again.
> 
> *Edit:* I may need to change the rankings around now.



Are you stepping on the diy journey now?


----------



## ctaxxxx (Sep 2, 2017)

redkingjoe said:


> Are you stepping on the diy journey now?



I had my buds reterminated by Triton Audio Cables. $105 for 3 buds. Guy did the work in a day, and shipped them next morning. Real quick service!

*Edit: *Maybe too quick. I just noticed he left exposed wire near the plug... (Said will do repair for free.)

I'll definitely be ordering strictly balanced buds from now on though (unless it's Vido cheap). Was not expecting such a huge improvement with AMP3. Considering removing my AMP2 impressions too, since I won't be using it anymore for buds. It's all the same description anyway: smoother treble, more presence in vocals, and better bass.


----------



## noknok23

I love my earbuds reterminated in balanced too (aune m1s here)


----------



## chaiyuta

@ctaxxxx : I am waiting for my DX200 back. Then I will demo it with AMP3 module nearby audio store. Since I got DX200, every earphones and upgraded cable I ordered after that are 2.5mm. balanced. In case of high-impedance earbuds, comparing between typical 3.5mm output from MIYO DAC/AMP and 2.5mm output from DX200+AMP1. They are totally different. DX200+AMP1 has so far better. I am curious how next level of AMP3 will become.


----------



## redkingjoe

noknok23 said:


> I love my earbuds reterminated in balanced too (aune m1s here)



Yeh! 

Especially, using use top performance cable with HQ plugs!


----------



## redkingjoe

springbay said:


> I can say as much as that neither of them will disappoint you. They are both terrific buds and if I were to do a current rank of my buds it would be:
> 1. Cypherus Audio CAX Black
> 2. -
> 3. -
> ...



You might like to try the red dragon, it's a league above Cax black!


----------



## wskl

I've been listening to one of my forgotten earbuds - the **** PT15.  I bought it during last year's Aliexpress 11.11 sale and it has not had much listening time since then, mainly because I found them to be a bit too heavy on my ears.

So I decided to give them another go, previously I was using the Monk+ porous foams on them and I have now figured out that they were just a bit loose when it came to the fitting, hence the reason my ears were feeling the full weight of the metal shells.  I have since switched to donut foams and they have just enough cushion to hold it in my ears securely and comfortably, I am also getting a better seal as a result.

I won't elaborate too much on the SQ as there are already quite a few impressions on this thread.  Comparing the effect of the donut foam vs the porous foam, there is an added layer of warmth, notes are a tad thicker or fatter, so not as articulate sounding as before but still pretty good, it doesn't sound as bright as what I remembered it to be, I guess because of the better seal.

I know that the PT15 has mixed opinions amongst us, either people thought it was too bright, not enough bass or it was not comfortable, but now that I have got my ear fitting issues resolved, it ticks a lot of boxes for me and I am really happy I did not get rid of these.


----------



## TheMadcap

ClieOS said:


> Even Rose Tech. makes it clear that Mojito is tuned for classical music, so that's what it really good at - for extreme detail, soundstage and end-to-end dynamic. Vocal is where it is at its weakest, as mid range is a bit far and bland.




I like extreme detail, but i hate sibilance. I loved s-em9 in that sense. Would you suggest masya or mojito. I listen progressive rock in general, sometimes metal and jazz; "Yes", "Soft Machine", "King Crimson", "Metallica", "Blind Guardian". I like fast and paced tracks.


----------



## DBaldock9

wskl said:


> I've been listening to one of my forgotten earbuds - the **** PT15.  I bought it during last year's Aliexpress 11.11 sale and it has not had much listening time since then, mainly because I found them to be a bit too heavy on my ears.
> 
> So I decided to give them another go, previously I was using the Monk+ porous foams on them and I have now figured out that they were just a bit loose when it came to the fitting, hence the reason my ears were feeling the full weight of the metal shells.  I have since switched to donut foams and they have just enough cushion to hold it in my ears securely and comfortably, I am also getting a better seal as a result.
> 
> ...



Sometime between last Fall (when I bought a set of PT15) and this Spring (when I bought another set), **** changed something about the driver or tuning - and the current version has considerably more Bass.  While it isn't a Basshead earbud, it has a much more balanced sound across the Bass, Midrange, & Treble.


----------



## mbwilson111

DBaldock9 said:


> Sometime between last Fall (when I bought a set of PT15) and this Spring (when I bought another set), **** changed something about the driver or tuning - and the current version has considerably more Bass.  While it isn't a Basshead earbud, it has a much more balanced sound across the Bass, Midrange, & Treble.



I have one on the way, so this is good to hear.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Finally receive the **** Tank, make about 1 hour I listen to them so I can mustly talk about the very nice construction, thick twisted cable of really great quality, what I think it's a metal housing that is smaller that I was thinking and very beautifull. Refreshing earbud look to say the least!

 
Soundwise it's very energic and punchy, not the largest soundstage but nice instrument separation, with these earbuds, yes, I can listen to electro (like Aphex Twin right now) but they are not bass monster and perhaps a little lighter more U shape than the MX500, vocal are more present, and details too. 

Not disapointed at all for now....first impression is very pleasant!


----------



## HungryPanda

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Finally receive the **** Tank, make about 1 hour I listen to them so I can mustly talk about the very nice construction, thick twisted cable of really great quality, what I think it's a metal housing that is smaller that I was thinking and very beautifull. Refreshing earbud look to say the least!
> 
> Soundwise it's very energic and punchy, not the largest soundstage but nice instrument separation, with these earbuds, yes, I can listen to electro (like Aphex Twin right now) but they are not bass monster and perhaps a little lighter more U shape than the MX500, vocal are more present, and details too.
> 
> Not disapointed at all for now....first impression is very pleasant!



Very nice looking earbuds as well.......


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

HungryPanda said:


> Very nice looking earbuds as well.......


Yeah, classy and low profile...color fit well my style too hehe

But not as mesmerizing loking as your Ourart.

Was wondering, do you have the DIY MX500 in your earbud collection?

I compare these 2 right now.....hum....MX500 are like....unkillable! (they say in **** tank description KILL the MX500)


----------



## HungryPanda

I have the DIY MX500 and really like them as well as the NICEHCK DIY Graphene MX760, but for the last 2 days I have been listening to just the Headroom MS16


----------



## Saoshyant

HungryPanda said:


> I have the DIY MX500 and really like them as well as the NICEHCK DIY Graphene MX760, but for the last 2 days I have been listening to just the Headroom MS16



I found the MS16 to be unobjectionable, but not particularly suited for me.  Might be a good alternative if you have fit issues with RX-1.


----------



## wskl

DBaldock9 said:


> Sometime between last Fall (when I bought a set of PT15) and this Spring (when I bought another set), **** changed something about the driver or tuning - and the current version has considerably more Bass.  While it isn't a Basshead earbud, it has a much more balanced sound across the Bass, Midrange, & Treble.



A bit more bass would definitely give the PT15 more versatility across different music genres.  Thanks for the info.


----------



## redkingjoe

Looks good. Very adorable. Seems to be a HQ product. 



Nymphonomaniac said:


> Finally receive the **** Tank, make about 1 hour I listen to them so I can mustly talk about the very nice construction, thick twisted cable of really great quality, what I think it's a metal housing that is smaller that I was thinking and very beautifull. Refreshing earbud look to say the least!
> 
> Soundwise it's very energic and punchy, not the largest soundstage but nice instrument separation, with these earbuds, yes, I can listen to electro (like Aphex Twin right now) but they are not bass monster and perhaps a little lighter more U shape than the MX500, vocal are more present, and details too.
> 
> Not disapointed at all for now....first impression is very pleasant!


----------



## golov17

DBaldock9 said:


> Sometime between last Fall (when I bought a set of PT15) and this Spring (when I bought another set), **** changed something about the driver or tuning - and the current version has considerably more Bass.  While it isn't a Basshead earbud, it has a much more balanced sound across the Bass, Midrange, & Treble.


simply, when assembling, a lot of glue was used, which covered the black damper and half the holes in the driver's casing, so the sound can differ from batch to batch.


----------



## redkingjoe

ctaxxxx said:


> I had my buds reterminated by Triton Audio Cables. $105 for 3 buds. Guy did the work in a day, and shipped them next morning. Real quick service!
> 
> *Edit: *Maybe too quick. I just noticed he left exposed wire near the plug... (Said will do repair for free.)
> 
> I'll definitely be ordering strictly balanced buds from now on though (unless it's Vido cheap). Was not expecting such a huge improvement with AMP3. Considering removing my AMP2 impressions too, since I won't be using it anymore for buds. It's all the same description anyway: smoother treble, more presence in vocals, and better bass.



Well. 

For the earphone, the secret of success is: first having a good design, apply the best parts and accessories available, then tune it to our liking.

Finding good housing, super speaker unit, low loss cable, low loss plugs, best acoustic foams and pads. Than the pure signal from a super source will faithfully be passed on to our precious ears! 

It seems to me that Blur and Cyphreus are doing serious jobs on each of component. They select high quality parts...and give them to us according to $$$ we are paying.


----------



## redkingjoe

golov17 said:


> simply, when assembling, a lot of glue was used, which covered the black damper and half the holes in the driver's casing, so the sound can differ from batch to batch.



LOL,

These holes are for sound tuning.


----------



## golov17 (Sep 3, 2017)

redkingjoe said:


> LOL,
> 
> These holes are for sound tuning.


they should not be filled with glue, for adjust the sound using a variety of damper materials, not glue, lol


----------



## ClieOS

TheMadcap said:


> I like extreme detail, but i hate sibilance. I loved s-em9 in that sense. Would you suggest masya or mojito. I listen progressive rock in general, sometimes metal and jazz; "Yes", "Soft Machine", "King Crimson", "Metallica", "Blind Guardian". I like fast and paced tracks.



Masya


----------



## BloodyPenguin

*ABnormal Labs - Dietris 300Ohm WH*

www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone/dietris-300ohm-wh.html

After some significant burn in, I'm really starting to like the silky smooth mids, subtle sub-bass and non-fatiguing highs.

Build is SUPER tough, but the cable has a mind of its own and curls up like an anaconda squeezing its prey.


----------



## golov17

http://s.aliexpress.com/MFbuuMri


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Yeah they feel nice and sturdy in hands, and the cable is a very nice touch that I would like to see used more with other earbuds. They can be wear over ear too.
Still, I will let burn them in to see if soundstage expend more....cause im sooooo obsess with the MX500 that i wish they hyde the same driver in the TANK too hehe
Anyway, other pics here:


----------



## Stevenpi1992

Hi guys, was just wondering if I could get a quick opinion. So I was interested in upgrading earbuds from the Monk+ and was wondering if the Shozy BK's would be a good upgrade. I like really bright highs with lots of detail and clarity. I was looking into the Zens, but a lot of people say the highs are recessed. Opinions? I was looking at the Rose Mojitos as well, but I'm currently trying to keep under $200. Thanks!


----------



## jant71 (Sep 4, 2017)

And you said unicorns weren't real...








...and 3 other Toneking buds at 65Ohm, 150Ohm and 200Ohm but all around the $60-$65 price.
(apologies if mentioned already. I didn't see them in the thread going back a bit)


----------



## ctaxxxx

Been listening to AMP3 some more. I've moved almost all my buds to a thicker foam. Maybe I'm still stuck on how they used to sound through 3.5mm... Thin foams make it sound like I'm in an auditorium now lol. 



Stevenpi1992 said:


> Hi guys, was just wondering if I could get a quick opinion. So I was interested in upgrading earbuds from the Monk+ and was wondering if the Shozy BK's would be a good upgrade. I like really bright highs with lots of detail and clarity. I was looking into the Zens, but a lot of people say the highs are recessed. Opinions? I was looking at the Rose Mojitos as well, but I'm currently trying to keep under $200. Thanks!



Your jumping from budget to TOTL. It's a huge difference! I would definitely avoid Zen since you're looking for detail. Shozy BK meets that description perfectly.


----------



## chellity (Sep 4, 2017)

Stevenpi1992 said:


> Hi guys, was just wondering if I could get a quick opinion. So I was interested in upgrading earbuds from the Monk+ and was wondering if the Shozy BK's would be a good upgrade. I like really bright highs with lots of detail and clarity. I was looking into the Zens, but a lot of people say the highs are recessed. Opinions? I was looking at the Rose Mojitos as well, but I'm currently trying to keep under $200. Thanks!



A headfi poster made a comparison between stardust and the diy graphene from nicehck on aliexpress, and their frequency responses were very similar with the poster preferring the diy graphene for the $22 ish price.  You might be able to find his long post here 

If you want something that is definitely a step up, I would try the diy graphene!  its my favorite budget bud in my collection right now..great attack, great bass, and a better fit for me than a mx500 shell.   If you have a warm/smooth source with some EQ like a cayin n3, they can truly sing.  They're the only buds i keep tethered to my DAP right now.  It can be had for around $22 on sale on ali.


----------



## Stevenpi1992

ctaxxxx said:


> Your jumping from budget to TOTL. It's a huge difference! I would definitely avoid Zen since you're looking for detail. Shozy BK meets that description perfectly.





chellity said:


> A headfi poster made a comparison between stardust and the diy graphene from nicehck on aliexpress, and their frequency responses were very similar with the poster preferring the diy graphene for the $22 ish price.  You might be able to find his long post here
> 
> If you want something that is definitely a step up, I would try the diy graphene!  its my favorite budget bud in my collection right now..great attack, great bass, and a better fit for me than a mx500 shell.   If you have a warm/smooth source with some EQ like a cayin n3, they can truly sing.  They're the only buds i keep tethered to my DAP right now.  It can be had for around $22 on sale on ali.



Thanks for the info guys! Chellity@ I'll look into the DIY Graphene as well thanks!


----------



## Stevenpi1992

Ordered the DIY Graphene on AE. I'm willing to spend <$30 to see how these sound before I invest into more expensive buds. Thanks again guys.


----------



## snip3r77

chellity said:


> A headfi poster made a comparison between stardust and the diy graphene from nicehck on aliexpress, and their frequency responses were very similar with the poster preferring the diy graphene for the $22 ish price.  You might be able to find his long post here
> 
> If you want something that is definitely a step up, I would try the diy graphene!  its my favorite budget bud in my collection right now..great attack, great bass, and a better fit for me than a mx500 shell.   If you have a warm/smooth source with some EQ like a cayin n3, they can truly sing.  They're the only buds i keep tethered to my DAP right now.  It can be had for around $22 on sale on ali.


Do you have the link for the graphene review ? Thanks


----------



## Raketen

Zen 2 isn't super sparkly detail range but it isn't particularly dark sounding either unless its not getting amped right or something... or am I hearing completely different than everyone else?

Though I agree that Stardust/BK is a better match if your'e looking for Monk+ upgrade.


----------



## Stevenpi1992

snip3r77 said:


> Do you have the link for the graphene review ? Thanks



I found this one before I bought them. I think this is it but could be mistaken

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-diy-graphene.22565/


----------



## Stevenpi1992

Raketen said:


> Zen 2 isn't super sparkly detail range but it isn't particularly dark sounding either unless its not getting amped right or something... or am I hearing completely different than everyone else?
> 
> Though I agree that Stardust/BK is a better match if your'e looking for Monk+ upgrade.



Thanks for the input. At least I know I'm in the right direction! If I'm happy enough with the Graphenes I'll probably hold off on getting the BKs, but I do ultimately want to get the Mojitos. It's gonna be awhile before I can though so I need something to hold me over


----------



## Dark Helmet

Stevenpi1992 said:


> Thanks for the input. At least I know I'm in the right direction! If I'm happy enough with the Graphenes I'll probably hold off on getting the BKs, but I do ultimately want to get the Mojitos. It's gonna be awhile before I can though so I need something to hold me over


I have both the Graphne and the BK. Get the Graphne.


----------



## Stevenpi1992

Dark Helmet said:


> I have both the Graphne and the BK. Get the Graphne.



They should be here in a couple weeks  thanks!


----------



## Raketen (Sep 4, 2017)

Yikes, I was going to listen to Zen 2  to compare with Monk+ and refresh my memory but I think I left them in a hotel a few weeks ago. I have been meaning to shrink my headphone collection recently but not Zen and not this way...


----------



## HungryPanda

+1 forthe graphene, I prefer mine to the other earbuds I have. Still have the rose masya to turn up though


----------



## Dark Helmet

HungryPanda said:


> +1 forthe graphene, I prefer mine to the other earbuds I have. Still have the rose masya to turn up though


I have the Masya as well, but I prefer the Graphne. Masya is still very good.


----------



## Stevenpi1992

HungryPanda said:


> +1 forthe graphene, I prefer mine to the other earbuds I have. Still have the rose masya to turn up though





Dark Helmet said:


> I have the Masya as well, but I prefer the Graphne. Masya is still very good.



Wow sounds like they really punch above their weight. I can't wait to get them!


----------



## gazzington

Buying earbuds is addictive. I keep reading about various buds on here and I just want to try them.  Funny thing is that I have many expensive headphones, iems and earphones but I probably use my monks or vidos more often than any of them! Thinking of trying some xaiomi pistons or maybe rose masya but then you all mention gaphne earbuds.  Plus I have not tried rock zircons.......


----------



## snip3r77 (Sep 5, 2017)

gazzington said:


> Buying earbuds is addictive. I keep reading about various buds on here and I just want to try them.  Funny thing is that I have many expensive headphones, iems and earphones but I probably use my monks or vidos more often than any of them! Thinking of trying some xaiomi pistons or maybe rose masya but then you all mention gaphne earbuds.  Plus I have not tried rock zircons.......



For IEM side, maybe you can wait for ZX6 ( Current model is ZX5 ).
For earbud, I just started and I have the Vido ( it's very value for $ ) and the sound is difficult to beat at any price point LOL


----------



## redkingjoe

gazzington said:


> Buying earbuds is addictive. I keep reading about various buds on here and I just want to try them.  Funny thing is that I have many expensive headphones, iems and earphones but I probably use my monks or vidos more often than any of them! Thinking of trying some xaiomi pistons or maybe rose masya but then you all mention gaphne earbuds.  Plus I have not tried rock zircons.......



Since you are willing to spend money and have many expensive headphones and iem, why don't you try the cypherus cax red dragon first? 

One of the members also spent a hell lot on exotics earphones told me that red dragon is the real deal for earbuds. Before he got the red dragon, he bought and sold a lot of earphones and also made many posts here. After he got the red dragon, i seldom see him post. He PM me that red dragon is the statement.


----------



## chellity

Here is the review on the DIY Graphene with the Frequency response compared to Stardust: 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-diy-graphene.22565/reviews

i'm sure you guys will love them just like the rest of us are  I think I like the graphene since its a fairly unique bud with amazing attack unlike most budget buds.


----------



## seanc6441

jant71 said:


> And you said unicorns weren't real...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Anyone tried these? I know they're brand new but I'd love to know if anyone is getting them and how they compare to the tomahawk etc.


----------



## SuperMAG

how much does it cost, the red dragon.


----------



## redkingjoe

SuperMAG said:


> how much does it cost, the red dragon.



Someone told me it's US$500+, depending on the level of cable you pick.

This is far cheaper than a totl iem!


----------



## ctaxxxx

redkingjoe said:


> Since you are willing to spend money and have many expensive headphones and iem, why don't you try the cypherus cax red dragon first?
> 
> One of the members also spent a hell lot on exotics earphones told me that red dragon is the real deal for earbuds. Before he got the red dragon, he bought and sold a lot of earphones and also made many posts here. After he got the red dragon, i seldom see him post. He PM me that red dragon is the statement.



Wait, the Cypherus site is up? ...Ugh, my testimony sounds so cheesy lol.

I might start saving up for CAX Red Dragon. Next paycheck! (or two...)


----------



## golov17

Inside..


----------



## jogawag

golov17 said:


> Inside..



Does this picture mean that the inside(Driver as well?) of TY Hi-Z AWK-314P and Seahf AWK-F32P are the same?


----------



## theoutsider (Sep 5, 2017)

jant71 said:


> And you said unicorns weren't real...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like a modified tomahawk. The other 3 look like modified To300, and then again To300 itself is probably a spinoff from the successful tomahawk.


----------



## Stevenpi1992

ctaxxxx said:


> Wait, the Cypherus site is up? ...Ugh, my testimony sounds so cheesy lol.
> 
> I might start saving up for CAX Red Dragon. Next paycheck! (or two...)



Sounds interesting. I've never heard of Cypherus until just recently. I don't see pricing on the website.. Do they normally sell through another market?


----------



## theoutsider

golov17 said:


> Inside..


Done by the same guy and selling at similar price. They probably share the same internals and were given different tunings. Seahf is supposed to be sibilant and Hi-z supposed to be bassy or something.


----------



## redkingjoe

ctaxxxx said:


> Wait, the Cypherus site is up? ...Ugh, my testimony sounds so cheesy lol.
> 
> I might start saving up for CAX Red Dragon. Next paycheck! (or two...)



Go for it.

 Tell them you are a serious reviewer! Lol! 

Someone told me there's a few cables for you to pick; higher price for better cable!

I'm also saving money for a red dragon.


----------



## golov17

jogawag said:


> Does this picture mean that the inside(Driver as well?) of TY Hi-Z AWK-314P and Seahf AWK-F32P are the same?


Same sound


----------



## redkingjoe

Stevenpi1992 said:


> Sounds interesting. I've never heard of Cypherus until just recently. I don't see pricing on the website.. Do they normally sell through another market?



Really! 

Did you read @ctaxxxx  's review notes on TOTL earbuds? Cypherus has a few models on the list of the Totl list!


----------



## Stevenpi1992

redkingjoe said:


> Really!
> 
> Did you read @ctaxxxx  's review notes on TOTL earbuds? Cypherus has a few models on the list of the Totl list!



Checking it out now, thanks for the heads up!


----------



## ctaxxxx (Sep 5, 2017)

Stevenpi1992 said:


> Checking it out now, thanks for the heads up!



Not to forget to mention that CAX Black is #1 on two other member's personal earbud ranking.

*Edit:* Actually just email him for pricing. Don't want to deter anyone...


----------



## cocolinho

redkingjoe said:


> Someone told me it's US$500+, depending on the level of cable you pick.
> 
> This is far cheaper than a totl iem!



IMHO: Ridiculous price. Got campfred in loan from a friend, I was expecting something (much) better for the price. 
I have about 15 pairs of earbuds now in my drawer and my ranking would have nothing to do with the price I paid for them.


----------



## jogawag

golov17 said:


> Same sound



But I also feel that Seahf and Hi-z are given different tunings that Seahf is a little sibilant and Hi-z is a little bassy.


----------



## redkingjoe

ctaxxxx said:


> Not to forget to mention that CAX Black is #1 on two other member's personal earbud ranking.
> 
> *Edit:* Actually just email him for pricing. Don't want to deter anyone...





ctaxxxx said:


> Not to forget to mention that CAX Black is #1 on two other member's personal earbud ranking.
> 
> *Edit:* Actually just email him for pricing. Don't want to deter anyone...



One of the guys got the red dragon and sold the black! He told me red beats the black hands down. 

They said red is one league above.


----------



## ctaxxxx

cocolinho said:


> IMHO: Ridiculous price. Got campfred in loan from a friend, I was expecting something (much) better for the price.
> I have about 15 pairs of earbuds now in my drawer and my ranking would have nothing to do with the price I paid for them.



With newer budget buds sounding better than before, it really is hard to argue the value. I do feel that CampFred 2 is a step up though. It's all about those diminishing returns! As someone who drops $1K on headphones, $200 sounds like a steal to me for the sound quality it provides.


----------



## redkingjoe

cocolinho said:


> IMHO: Ridiculous price. Got campfred in loan from a friend, I was expecting something (much) better for the price.
> I have about 15 pairs of earbuds now in my drawer and my ranking would have nothing to do with the price I paid for them.



I feel the same about the price. However, I was told by the other member that the cable they give you are very expensive. The more money you give them, the more money they spend on buying the higher spec cable to put on the same model for you. It same it's fair this way as It will cost us a lot if we were to buy the cable ourselves.

I remember that people give a monk+  Earbud to them to upgrade cable and become a super earbud.

Having said this, red dragon is still cheaper than the second hand Sony mdr-e282 that I am longing to get. Red dragon is cheap when compare to TOTL IEM.


----------



## Stevenpi1992

ctaxxxx said:


> With newer budget buds sounding better than before, it really is hard to argue the value. I do feel that CampFred 2 is a step up though. It's all about those diminishing returns! As someone who drops $1K on headphones, $200 sounds like a steal to me for the sound quality it provides.



Agreed. I just bought the DIY Graphene for <$30, which is (supposedly) comparable to the Stardust, which is something like 5x the cost. With that in mind, it does become harder to justify spending $200+ on earbuds when there's always the chance that something might come out with 90% of the sound at a fraction of the price. Same with IEMs and to some extent, headphones as well.


----------



## cocolinho

You are right and I think diminishing returns appear earlier with earbuds than headphones/IEMs. 
Now I need to get these DIY Graphene !


----------



## chaiyuta

@redkingjoe : Agreed. The summit-fi TOTL IEM might be around 2999$ together with just a plain stock cable.


----------



## bonson

I could enjoy my Emx 500 for 2 days only before right side stop working..I hope TOTL earbuds do not suffer from so
 poor QC


----------



## golov17

jogawag said:


> But I also feel that Seahf and Hi-z are given different tunings that Seahf is a little sibilant and Hi-z is a little bassy.


The differences are so insignificant that it can be attributed to reverse phasing, perhaps


----------



## snip3r77

golov17 said:


> The differences are so insignificant that it can be attributed to reverse phasing, perhaps


Did you try the graphene?


----------



## golov17

snip3r77 said:


> Did you try the graphene?


Yes, interesting sig, airy


----------



## rggz (Sep 5, 2017)

bonson said:


> I could enjoy my Emx 500 for 2 days only before right side stop working..I hope TOTL earbuds do not suffer from so
> poor QC



If just one side suddenly stopped working there's a big change it's just the cable which dropped off from the solder joint. If you can open your earbud to check it and if you got a soldering iron would be really easy to fix it. Or maybe send a message to the store on Aliexpress. I had a good experience with Penon Audio when a similar thing happened to my Shozy Cygnus.


----------



## chinmie

how is the DIY Graphene compared to th **** Pt15? is it better in resolution? or just different sounding with the same ballpark in quality?


----------



## bonson

Thanks for suggestion. I have  tried but I am not good with a solder. I think the driver is dead now. I will keep the cable and try to put it on an old Aiwa earbuds


----------



## Danneq

cocolinho said:


> IMHO: Ridiculous price. Got campfred in loan from a friend, I was expecting something (much) better for the price.
> I have about 15 pairs of earbuds now in my drawer and my ranking would have nothing to do with the price I paid for them.



I thought so too. But just a few months later I bought the only pair of Red Dragon in existence for close to $600 second hand. I can only say that I will never have a need for full size headphones as long as I own the Red Dragon.
The previous owner decided to leave the audiophile world and offered the Red Dragon to me. I could not refuse even if it was about $200 more than my spending limit on earbuds.

About 10 years ago when I started lurking on Head fi, I bought a pair of Yuin PK3 for about $35. It was much better than the no name cheap earbuds I was using. Still, I would never spend over $50 on a pair of earbuds. Well, a few months later I bought a pair of PK2 for $60 and loved them more than the PK3. Then I got into vintage earbuds and then I could spend $200-300 on old Sony and Aiwa earbuds. But that was mainly for the collector's value. The old Sonys and Aiwas are really good, but current earbuds are better overall, even some of the budget ones.
The spending limits kept getting pushed upwards.

Anyway. CAX Black blew me away when I bought them, but I still sort of prefered CampFred for the more laid back sound. Red Dragon takes that neutral type of sound, but with a sort of effortless and laid back CF type of presentation. Together with a wide and deep soundstage a la ABnormal Diomnes Lv2.
Those earbuds could easily compete with full size headphones in the same price category.

Still, current budget earbuds are getting better and better. Vido just amazes me and it sounds like a baby CampFred for a fraction of the price. DIY PK2 is quite close to Shozy BK/Stardust.

Curiosity made me order the graphene earbuds a few days ago together with Yincrow RW-777 and Moondrop Nameless.

I decided a while ago to only go for $100+ TOTL earbuds together with $5-10 budget earbuds but still I go ahead and buy new stuff since I'm curious... The earbud disease is not as strong as it was before but sometimes I get another fever pitch even if I have told myself that I do not need any new earbuds.

Also, I recently bought a pair of Victor HP AL1000 clip on earphones. I hope they arrive this week. Then my small collection of clip on earphones will be complete!


----------



## waynes world

Danneq said:


> Still, current budget earbuds are getting better and better. Vido just amazes me and it sounds like a baby CampFred for a fraction of the price. DIY PK2 is quite close to Shozy BK/Stardust.



Ha. I was just about to ask you what you thought might be a budget bud that sounds something like the CampFred.... And you were kind enough to answer! (Love the Vido's myself btw).



> Curiosity made me order the graphene earbuds a few days ago together with Yincrow RW-777 and Moondrop Nameless.
> 
> I decided a while ago to only go for $100+ TOTL earbuds together with $5-10 budget earbuds but still I go ahead and buy new stuff since I'm curious... The earbud disease is not as strong as it was before but sometimes I get another fever pitch even if I have told myself that I do not need any new earbuds.
> 
> Also, I recently bought a pair of Victor HP AL1000 clip on earphones. I hope they arrive this week. Then my small collection of clip on earphones will be complete!



It's hard to get completely away from the occasional fever pitch lol!

I'll be interested interested in your impressions of the graphene buds, and the the Victors. Where the heck did you find them?


----------



## ctaxxxx (Sep 5, 2017)

I'm starting to feel conflicted the more I listen to my new reterminated 2.5mm earbuds. I've switched to full thick foams and the voices still sound really distant... The larger soundstage was really neat at first, but now I'm not so sure anymore. Is an earbud tuned manually after the plug? I wouldn't think so, right? (This mainly affects the QFred)

*Edit: *I just used a 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter and there's no audio in the QFred's right channel. Did the guy reterminate these incorrectly?...


----------



## redkingjoe

Stevenpi1992 said:


> Agreed. I just bought the DIY Graphene for <$30, which is (supposedly) comparable to the Stardust, which is something like 5x the cost. With that in mind, it does become harder to justify spending $200+ on earbuds when there's always the chance that something might come out with 90% of the sound at a fraction of the price. Same with IEMs and to some extent, headphones as well.



Frankly speaking, life is too short and our ability to appreciate good sound is even much shorter than our life.

A lot of us would be willing spend a few hundred more just to achieve than 10% improvement. 

After listening to that 10% of improvement, one might simply doesn't wanna listen back to the inferior sound and consider the money on that "10%" improvement was well spent. 10% improvement might be significant.


----------



## Stevenpi1992

redkingjoe said:


> Frankly speaking, life is too short and our ability to appreciate good sound is even much shorter than our life.
> 
> A lot of us would be willing spend a few hundred more just to achieve than 10% improvement.
> 
> After listening to that 10% of improvement, one might simply doesn't wanna listen back to the inferior sound and consider the money on that "10%" improvement was well spent. 10% improvement might be significant.



Very true! And not to discourage anyone from trying to get the best. I'm currently saving for a well deserved gift to myself as well  but I was more speaking to the voice in the back of your head when you're adding things to your cart and about to hit the buy button. I think the term I've heard recently is "analysis paralysis"


----------



## redkingjoe

ctaxxxx said:


> I'm starting to feel conflicted the more I listen to my new reterminated 2.5mm earbuds. I've switched to full thick foams and the voices still sound really distant... The larger soundstage was really neat at first, but now I'm not so sure anymore. Is an earbud tuned manually after the plug? I wouldn't think so, right? (This mainly affects the QFred)
> 
> *Edit: *I just used a 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter and there's no audio in the QFred's right channel. Did the guy reterminate these incorrectly?...



I have been playing with diy for 20+ years. I learned that everything changed needs to be cooked. If one changes a plug, both the plug and the contacts between the cable and the plug also need burning in. The soldering material affects SQ, the skills of soldering will also afffect SQ. it takes time to stabilise. You have a new earphone thereafter. The quality of the plug significantly influences SQ too.


----------



## Blueshound24

Has anyone compared the NICEHCK DIY Graphene to the Tomahawk?


----------



## Raketen (Sep 5, 2017)

ctaxxxx said:


> I'm starting to feel conflicted the more I listen to my new reterminated 2.5mm earbuds. I've switched to full thick foams and the voices still sound really distant... The larger soundstage was really neat at first, but now I'm not so sure anymore. Is an earbud tuned manually after the plug? I wouldn't think so, right? (This mainly affects the QFred)
> 
> *Edit: *I just used a 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter and there's no audio in the QFred's right channel. Did the guy reterminate these incorrectly?...



Have you used the same balanced source before? This description seems similar to phase issues- Might want to check the phase & make sure they are terminated correctly for your source. That could also explain if your adapter is not working because the right side could be shorting together if is not using the same pinout as your headphones. This website has some audio clips you can listen to and get an idea: http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php

If it is wired correctly - I haven't heard these earbuds but I have noticed BAL & SE do not always sound the same from the same source (on my DAP with balanced I actually prefer the SE)... there may also differences in output impedance etc... that affect the way matches with a particular headphone?


----------



## redkingjoe

Stevenpi1992 said:


> Very true! And not to discourage anyone from trying to get the best. I'm currently saving for a well deserved gift to myself as well  but I was more speaking to the voice in the back of your head when you're adding things to your cart and about to hit the buy button. I think the term I've heard recently is "analysis paralysis"



My 25 years ago story: I bought a good low price cable at US$ 50, changed to good mid-price cable at US$150 after a few months. YET, After a few months, I bought another better mid-price cable at 300. 

My wife said it sounded better after each upgrade. And she asked: would it be even better if I had put in the top model cable? I said yes BUT it would cost a damned 600! From that point onward, I noticed I should have bought the 600 upfront coz I would eventually get it. 

After that cable incident, I would focus on buying the best-buy TOTL products to cut the cost of upgrading. I would look at  the reviews, material, design, asking around the performance etc.

The first TOTL products I bought was a Sony MDR-E484 earbud at Yen 8000. I bought that e484 and keep enjoying it without any desire to upgrade. Now, a decent second hand E484 is selling in Japan from Yen 50,000 to yen120,000.


----------



## redkingjoe

cocolinho said:


> You are right and I think diminishing returns appear earlier with earbuds than headphones/IEMs.
> Now I need to get these DIY Graphene !



I have think about these diy graphene for awhile too.

Does anyone know whether there is a Totl model?


----------



## Stevenpi1992

redkingjoe said:


> I have think about these diy graphene for awhile too.
> 
> Does anyone know whether there is a Totl model?



Quite a few people said they were comparable to the Stardust/BK but i wouldn't call those TOTL. The posts a couple pages back about Cypherus makes me think those would be the end game for earbuds or really close to it.


----------



## redkingjoe

Stevenpi1992 said:


> Quite a few people said they were comparable to the Stardust/BK but i wouldn't call those TOTL. The posts a couple pages back about Cypherus makes me think those would be the end game for earbuds or really close to it.



Me also believes red dragon is the end game too. 

I'm also accumulating $$$ for it.

Yet, it seems that there's a few options, mainly the cable, to pick.


----------



## silverfishla

chinmie said:


> how is the DIY Graphene compared to th **** Pt15? is it better in resolution? or just different sounding with the same ballpark in quality?


The DIY Graphene bud is really good.  If you are wondering what a Graphene driver sounds like by choosing one of these two earbuds, just skip the **** PT15 because the DIY bud sounds better by some margin.  Interestingly, there is a "sound" to Graphene buds apparently.  They are "smooth" sounding but have great energy an oomph.  I haven't really heard anything else that really sounds like them, at least with their "flavor".  The DIY bud has very clear sound with great separation of instruments and vocals.  I think all of the frequencies from Treble to Bass are well balanced.  It's just a winner.


----------



## Stevenpi1992 (Sep 5, 2017)

redkingjoe said:


> Me also believes red dragon is the end game too.
> 
> I'm also accumulating $$$ for it.
> 
> Yet, it seems that there's a few options, mainly the cable, to pick.



I was looking at the CAX Black but I think I may have enough by the end of the year to possibly get the Red Dragons. From what I've read so far they appear to be significantly less expensive than the pair of cans I wanted to get so I may look into picking those up first.


----------



## HungryPanda

My tomahawk just arrived yesterday but I won't get my hands on them for a few hours yet. Looks like my Rose Masya is getting delivered today as well. What to listen to first........


----------



## Dark Helmet

silverfishla said:


> The DIY Graphene bud is really good.  If you are wondering what a Graphene driver sounds like by choosing one of these two earbuds, just skip the **** PT15 because the DIY bud sounds better by some margin.  Interestingly, there is a "sound" to Graphene buds apparently.  They are "smooth" sounding but have great energy an oomph.  I haven't really heard anything else that really sounds like them, at least with their "flavor".  The DIY bud has very clear sound with great separation of instruments and vocals.  I think all of the frequencies from Treble to Bass are well balanced.  It's just a winner.


Couldn't have said it better my friend.  They are sensational and my favorite by far.


----------



## xavierng1

HungryPanda said:


> My tomahawk just arrived yesterday but I won't get my hands on them for a few hours yet. Looks like my Rose Masya is getting delivered today as well. What to listen to first........


enjoy!


----------



## waynes world

Dark Helmet said:


> Couldn't have said it better my friend.  They are sensational and my favorite by far.



Are these the ones?

Sigh - getting out of my $5 comfort zone... they better be 6x better than my vido's lol!


----------



## snip3r77

waynes world said:


> Are these the ones?
> 
> Sigh - getting out of my $5 comfort zone... they better be 6x better than my vido's lol!


Yes , Pls message him for bro price


----------



## Dark Helmet

waynes world said:


> Are these the ones?
> 
> Sigh - getting out of my $5 comfort zone... they better be 6x better than my vido's lol!


In my opinion they are 10x better than the Vido.  I find the Vido bassy and little muddy, while lacking upper end clarity.


----------



## silverfishla

Dark Helmet said:


> In my opinion they are 10x better than the Vido.  I find the Vido bassy and little muddy, while lacking upper end clarity.


Couldn't have said it better, my friend.  Hehehe.  Vido is pretty good with something like the Shanling M1 little player because it does add bass, warmth and space,  which it kind of wants.  But, I just love that Graphene bud, so clear and yummy but full sounding.  I could listen to just that one all day long...


----------



## chaiyuta

@redkingjoe : Why don't you buy Rose Mojito which could be said that TOTL Dual Dynamic Drivers with 2-pin detachable cable feature so that You don't necessary to re-solder by yourself (compared to typical earbuds without detachable feature) , also you can keep your 3rd party upgraded cables in the good condition?


----------



## golov17

waynes world said:


> Are these the ones?
> 
> Sigh - getting out of my $5 comfort zone... they better be 6x better than my vido's lol!


upgrade for VIDO is my beta Asura


----------



## redkingjoe

chaiyuta said:


> @redkingjoe : Why don't you buy Rose Mojito which could be said that TOTL Dual Dynamic Drivers with 2-pin detachable cable feature so that You don't necessary to re-solder by yourself (compared to typical earbuds without detachable feature) , also you can keep your 3rd party upgraded cables in the good condition?



I don't like detachable cables. If you look at the pics and count, detachable earphones breaks the cable and solder to a connector which will be connected to another connectors. So you can imagine:
1 a cable is soldered to a connector from the plug side
2 a cable is soldered to a connector from the phone side.
3 the two connector plug together.

There's a lot of losses with plugs and cable soldering. Connectors are famous for degrading signals. Good connectors are very expensive but still degrade signal.


----------



## chaiyuta

@redkingjoe : You are so enthusiastic than I thought. lol I have nothing against you. All you said are 'facts'. I am just lazy to let a DIY guy do re-solder things until I find out which cable has the most synergy with my particular earphones.


----------



## springbay

Blueshound24 said:


> Has anyone compared the NICEHCK DIY Graphene to the Tomahawk?



Both of them color the sound in a manner that make the music appear unnatural to my ears. I guess people that enjoy the Tomahawk can also like the Graphenes.
To me the Graphenes are useless. But I seem to be the only one here with that opinion.


----------



## snip3r77

golov17 said:


> upgrade for VIDO is my beta Asura


You prefer this to graphene ?


----------



## golov17 (Sep 6, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> You prefer this to graphene ?


Why? Everything has its time, there is a lot of good electronic music, where naturalness of timbres is not obligatoryerything..


----------



## ctaxxxx

Raketen said:


> Have you used the same balanced source before? This description seems similar to phase issues- Might want to check the phase & make sure they are terminated correctly for your source. That could also explain if your adapter is not working because the right side could be shorting together if is not using the same pinout as your headphones. This website has some audio clips you can listen to and get an idea: http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php
> 
> If it is wired correctly - I haven't heard these earbuds but I have noticed BAL & SE do not always sound the same from the same source (on my DAP with balanced I actually prefer the SE)... there may also differences in output impedance etc... that affect the way matches with a particular headphone?



Thanks. I contacted him and he said he'll fix it. This is starting to get more expensive than I planned (because of shipping twice now)... Maybe I should have bought a bunch of Vido's and practiced soldering myself...

When I get all my buds back again, I'll compare SE and BAL to get a feel which I prefer. I may stick with BAL so I can have the option for both via adapter.


----------



## Saoshyant

ctaxxxx said:


> Thanks. I contacted him and he said he'll fix it. This is starting to get more expensive than I planned (because of shipping twice now)... Maybe I should have bought a bunch of Vido's and practiced soldering myself...
> 
> When I get all my buds back again, I'll compare SE and BAL to get a feel which I prefer. I may stick with BAL so I can have the option for both via adapter.



You can also get an odd balanced dap like the Hifiman Supermini that apparently can successfully take 3.5 SE in both it's SE & Bal ports, and has a different sound in each.  Still haven't verified, but I should remember to do so.


----------



## redkingjoe

ctaxxxx said:


> Thanks. I contacted him and he said he'll fix it. This is starting to get more expensive than I planned (because of shipping twice now)... Maybe I should have bought a bunch of Vido's and practiced soldering myself...
> 
> When I get all my buds back again, I'll compare SE and BAL to get a feel which I prefer. I may stick with BAL so I can have the option for both via adapter.



If you wanna play well, you ought to learn soldering. There's so many possibilities waiting for you!

Frankly speaking, if you can solder an audiophile capacitor to power supply of amp or dac, the sound will be so much better!


----------



## waynes world

golov17 said:


> upgrade for VIDO is my beta Asura
> 
> Why? Everything has its time, there is a lot of good electronic music, where naturalness of timbres is not obligatoryerything..



I like electronic music. I have the beta Asura's but haven't listened to them for a while. Time to find them!


----------



## noknok23

ctaxxxx said:


> Thanks. I contacted him and he said he'll fix it. This is starting to get more expensive than I planned (because of shipping twice now)... Maybe I should have bought a bunch of Vido's and practiced soldering myself...
> 
> When I get all my buds back again, I'll compare SE and BAL to get a feel which I prefer. I may stick with BAL so I can have the option for both via adapter.


way to go, i learn how to solder with earbuds, practiced on the monk+ (very easy because R+ R- L+ L- have different color wire. Not happening with most.
by reterminating yourself 2 or 3 earbuds, you will justify the cost of equipment vs asking someone else to do it for you


----------



## activatorfly

noknok23 said:


> way to go, i learn how to solder with earbuds, practiced on the monk+ (very easy because R+ R- L+ L- have different color wire. Not happening with most.
> by reterminating yourself 2 or 3 earbuds, you will justify the cost of equipment vs asking someone else to do it for you


I've not made balanced cables before...still awaiting 2.5mm trrs plugs to arrive. I guess it'll be easier to start off with buds with a detachable 3.5mm plug - in order to work out R/L channels before soldering to avoid any mistakes?


----------



## waynes world (Sep 6, 2017)

I received the EMX 500's way faster than expected. Cool. Nice case. Cool cable that is much thinner and more flexible than I thought it would be. I am not in a good place for critical listening at the moment, but my first impression is that I _really_ like these.


----------



## cocolinho

waynes world said:


> I received the EMX 500's way faster than expected. Cool. Nice case. Cool cable that is much thinner and more flexible than I thought it would be. I am not is a good place for critical listening at the moment, but my first impression is that I _really_ like these.


They are fantastic! They are #1 for me, they suit my taste perfectly


----------



## RyanM

waynes world said:


> I received the EMX 500's way faster than expected. Cool. Nice case. Cool cable that is much thinner and more flexible than I thought it would be. I am not is a good place for critical listening at the moment, but my first impression is that I _really_ like these.



They are really great. Just a fantastic tuning. If they charged anywhere between $30-$50 USD, I doubt that anyone would disagree.


----------



## vladstef

RyanM said:


> They are really great. Just a fantastic tuning. If they charged anywhere between $30-$50 USD, I doubt that anyone would disagree.



Yeah, but they would have to improve quality control. Can't argue with the sound, one of the best deals in the history of audio, just pure energy.


----------



## Blueshound24

springbay said:


> Both of them color the sound in a manner that make the music appear unnatural to my ears. I guess people that enjoy the Tomahawk can also like the Graphenes.
> To me the Graphenes are useless. But I seem to be the only one here with that opinion.



Thanks. In what way do they color the sound?


----------



## Saoshyant

Blueshound24 said:


> Thanks. In what way do they color the sound?



They sound pastel


----------



## Danneq

Saoshyant said:


> They sound pastel



Damn it!


----------



## Saoshyant

Danneq said:


> Damn it!



Not sure if I beat you to the joke or if it was that bad.


----------



## Blueshound24

Saoshyant said:


> They sound pastel



Ok, then, in what way do they affect the sound...


----------



## Danneq

Saoshyant said:


> Not sure if I beat you to the joke or if it was that bad.




Just ordered a pair and I'm not really into the "pastel" type of sound. That is exactly how I would describe the sound signature of Toneking TP16 and that is why I sold my pair. Well, I'll at least give the graphene buds a chance.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 6, 2017)

Saoshyant said:


> Not sure if I beat you to the joke or if it was that bad.



I took it as a joke but then that is how my mind works.

Meanwhile...your post triggered a bit of reading:

*Chromesthesia* or *sound-to-color synesthesia* is a type of synesthesia in which heard sounds automatically and involuntarily evoke an experience of color

Such an interesting subject.

In an attempt to stay on topic I will mention that my **** PT15 s arrived today and so far I am enjoying them.


----------



## springbay

Blueshound24 said:


> Thanks. In what way do they color the sound?



Take a listen to Bubbles on any kind of at least somewhat neutral tuned headgear


Then try it on the Graphenes. I promise your reaction ought to be - what's wrong with my set-up? Did I not push the plug fully through? Did I accidentally EQ my gear? Is my DAP running low on battery? What the frecking feck is wrong with my ears? Please let me out of this torture sound disaster!!!11111


----------



## redkingjoe

noknok23 said:


> way to go, i learn how to solder with earbuds, practiced on the monk+ (very easy because R+ R- L+ L- have different color wire. Not happening with most.
> by reterminating yourself 2 or 3 earbuds, you will justify the cost of equipment vs asking someone else to do it for you



Did you experiment with different brands of solders?


----------



## HungryPanda

sounds good on the graphenes. They are a bit different but I like the sound


----------



## snip3r77

HungryPanda said:


> sounds good on the graphenes. They are a bit different but I like the sound



Pls don't tempt me no more haha


----------



## waynes world

vladstef said:


> Yeah, but they would have to improve quality control. Can't argue with the sound, one of the best deals in the history of audio, just pure energy.



I agree! (see below). And I haven`t even tried my trusty monk+ thin foams on them yet 

What have been the typical QC issues with them? 



springbay said:


> Take a listen to Bubbles on any kind of at least somewhat neutral tuned headgear
> 
> 
> Then try it on the Graphenes. I promise your reaction ought to be - what's wrong with my set-up? Did I not push the plug fully through? Did I accidentally EQ my gear? Is my DAP running low on battery? What the frecking feck is wrong with my ears? Please let me out of this torture sound disaster!!!11111




Just listened with my newly aquired emx 500`s. Sounds very awesome! Unbelievable actually. Thanks for posting that. 

But back to the graphenes... your description is very vivid, but not completely clear lol. How do they sound to you?


----------



## springbay

HungryPanda said:


> sounds good on the graphenes. They are a bit different but I like the sound



Sounds great on the K's Earphone K600. FTFY


----------



## Stevenpi1992

Hey guys quick question, is there somewhere I can order donut foams from? I like listening to my Monks without foam, but they can get a little uncomfortable. I tried cutting holes into the stock ones but they end up stretching and ripping super easily afterwards.


----------



## HungryPanda

I only have the K300 but the K600 are heading my way


----------



## HungryPanda

https://www.amazon.com/HieGi-Middle...&qid=1504746324&sr=8-67&keywords=earbud+foams


----------



## Stevenpi1992

HungryPanda said:


> https://www.amazon.com/HieGi-Middle...&qid=1504746324&sr=8-67&keywords=earbud+foams



Perfect! Thanks!!


----------



## springbay

waynes world said:


> How do they sound to you?



Imagine the track you just listened to with random frequencies totally cut out, mainly low end, while some high frequencies are way over emphasized. Much like the MusicMaker TP16.


----------



## redkingjoe

chaiyuta said:


> @redkingjoe : Agreed. The summit-fi TOTL IEM might be around 2999$ together with just a plain stock cable.



IEM seems to be extremely overcharging...


----------



## redkingjoe

Saoshyant said:


> They sound pastel



Will that romanticise music?


----------



## redkingjoe

mbwilson111 said:


> I took it as a joke but then that is how my mind works.
> 
> Meanwhile...your post triggered a bit of reading:
> 
> ...



To induce coloration to sound is a long-time favourite of audiophile. 

Say 25+ years ago when I started playing tubes, we would buy a lot of tubes just to make the sound to have the best colour in our system. The most famous example is the Warm sounding "square" getter type and cold sounding "round" getter type of  Mullard ecc82. Switch  it with your tube amp/dac and one will immediately notice. But our ears somehow will adject to the sound for a longer listening. There are still other tubes sounding colder/warmer.


----------



## waynes world

springbay said:


> Imagine the track you just listened to with random frequencies totally cut out, mainly low end, while some high frequencies are way over emphasized. Much like the MusicMaker TP16.



That would be pretty much the opposite of what I`d like to magine lol! Any other people feel the same way about the graphene`s?

At any rate, I`m really glad that you brought Yosi to my attention. Both Yosi and the 500`s are blowing my mind, as I attested to a friend who was asking about them compared to the qian39`s:



> At this moment I am listening to new discovery Yosi Horikawa. Album "Vapor". Please find it and give it a listen. Listening with the emx 500's and is blowing my mind tbh. I like the 39's very much, but these 500's seem to be much more dynamic and layered, with amazing staging and separation and bass. No way these things cost only $5!
> Having said that, I haven't done any comparisons yet. But I don't think this is "new $5 toy syndrome" lol.


----------



## snip3r77

redkingjoe said:


> IEM seems to be extremely overcharging...


Totl earbud vs iem? Who will win lol


----------



## waynes world

I re-read the almost unanimously positive diy graphene posts, and broke down and hopped on the DIY graphene MX760 hype train. This even in spite of springbay`s scary opinions lol.

I`m not sure if they will end up being my cup-o-tea, as the emx500`s seem to pretty much hit my preferred sound signature. Then again, it may be time to try a bit of a different signature, and the graphene`s are not completely breaking the bank. So we will see!


----------



## gazzington

Shozy stardust or rose mojito for a heavy rock metal fan?  Or something else?  Love vidos at the moment


----------



## snip3r77

gazzington said:


> Shozy stardust or rose mojito for a heavy rock metal fan?  Or something else?  *Love vidos at the moment*



Same here. Pls listen towards the end.



The foot tapping ( bass ) is like 1m away at 45 degrees. 
Initially, I thought someone is thumping on the ceiling


----------



## danimoca (Sep 7, 2017)

Just received the EMX500's from _that _seller. They are beyond belief for an earbud costing less than 10$.

Huuuuge soundstage, great detail and very impressive bass for an earbud. They don't sound to me like they're U or V shaped. They are rather neutral with a touch more bass and a little bit cold in the highs.

No question about it: they're much much better than the Monk+'s I have.


----------



## HungryPanda

Yes the "he who shall not be named" EMX500 are rather impressive earbuds indeed


----------



## luckyeights

Hmm everyone seems to be liking the emx500.  I hope i ordered the right ones?  

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...32789378048.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.kU7Qyi


----------



## ctaxxxx

gazzington said:


> Shozy stardust or rose mojito for a heavy rock metal fan?  Or something else?  Love vidos at the moment



Shozy BK (Stardust) if I had to choose. Mojito is mainly tuned for classical. Shozy is more versatile for different genres. Maybe Blur if you want those forward mids without the harsh highs.


----------



## HungryPanda

These are the ones I got but they look the same:  https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...867.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.2995e5c0KnYWxG


----------



## redkingjoe

snip3r77 said:


> Totl earbud vs iem? Who will win lol



A lot of people say this semi-earbud semi-iem will win!


----------



## snip3r77

redkingjoe said:


> A lot of people say this semi-earbud semi-iem will win!


What's that lady gaga endorsed thing?


----------



## redkingjoe

ctaxxxx said:


> Shozy BK (Stardust) if I had to choose. Mojito is mainly tuned for classical. Shozy is more versatile for different genres. Maybe Blur if you want those forward mids without the harsh highs.



Thank you for your excellent review notes. They are truly helpful.

After reading your notes for around 10 times carefully, I bought the Blur accordingly. I love the sound.

Waiting for your review on red dragon.


----------



## redkingjoe

snip3r77 said:


> What's that lady gaga endorsed thing?



LOL. 

The brand is Final audio design. The model is: Lab 2.

I talked to a few members who have bought that. Those who have owned this before unanimously voted it the best IEM. But it is a semi-earbud, semi-iem.

The only problem is the price.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Sep 7, 2017)

HungryPanda said:


> These are the ones I got but they look the same:  https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...867.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.2995e5c0KnYWxG





luckyeights said:


> Hmm everyone seems to be liking the emx500.  I hope i ordered the right ones?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...32789378048.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.kU7Qyi



Looks like they have different specs. One is Resistance:64Ω, the other is Resistance:32Ω. Also, one is frequency range 12-24k Hz, the other is 20-20k Hz.

Curious if they sound different?


----------



## waynes world

redkingjoe said:


> LOL.
> 
> The brand is Final audio design. The model is: Lab 2.
> 
> ...



I just did a bit of reading about the Lab 2's. Pretty innovative, that's for sure.


----------



## krunchcrispy

Hey Folks, I am thinking between the EMX500 or the K's K300. . . anyone able to give a comparison?   Also, anyone heard the Moondrop Nameless yet?


----------



## kurtextrem (Sep 7, 2017)

http://final-audio-design.com/de/archives/900 this is an earbud - has anyone ever heard them?

Edit: Yeah, ClieOS did! https://www.head-fi.org/threads/impression-final-audio-design-piano-forte-ii.538284/


----------



## vladstef

Final audio Piano Forte series and Lab II are much closer to being earbuds. They have earbud drivers (15-16mm), many vents (semi open, like most earbuds), they don't isolate just like earbuds. The only problem with them is the price, they are not made for price to performance ratio and that's why they remain out of reach for so many. Form factor is amazing though, I've tried PF VIII and it's the most comfortable headphone of any kind, it just sits nicely and you don't even feel them. I am surprised that this form factor isn't more popular, especially knowing how big Final Audio is in Japan and China.


----------



## Sylmar

I've been out of touch with earbuds for a while. Has the TY Hi-Z been topped as the best budget earbud?


----------



## gazzington

Which blur model would you all recommended?


----------



## DBaldock9

Sylmar said:


> I've been out of touch with earbuds for a while. Has the TY Hi-Z been topped as the best budget earbud?



The Monk Plus, for $5.00 no Mic ($10.00 w/3-Button Mic), and the Vido, for $4.99 (get the one with the Mic, if you want a "Y" cable, instead of a "J" cable), are both very good budget earbuds.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Venture-Electronic-VE-MONK-earbud-earphone/32417311324.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...ug-Earbud-Bass-HIFI-Earphone/32806045266.html


----------



## Makahl

redkingjoe said:


> A lot of people say this semi-earbud semi-iem will win!



I remember @slappypete posting something about his DIY Piano Forte using this housing (or a similar one) and earbuds drivers and he was extremely happy with the results. I'm really tempted to give it a try too, but, atm I'm extremely pleased with the K's 300 at the point I don't want to seek for anything else, lol.


----------



## Sylmar (Sep 7, 2017)

DBaldock9 said:


> The Monk Plus, for $5.00 no Mic ($10.00 w/3-Button Mic), and the Vido, for $4.99 (get the one with the Mic, if you want a "Y" cable, instead of a "J" cable), are both very good budget earbuds.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Venture-Electronic-VE-MONK-earbud-earphone/32417311324.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...ug-Earbud-Bass-HIFI-Earphone/32806045266.html



Thanks! Ordered the Vido.


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> The Monk Plus, for $5.00 no Mic ($10.00 w/3-Button Mic), and the Vido, for $4.99 (get the one with the Mic, if you want a "Y" cable, instead of a "J" cable), are both very good budget earbuds.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Venture-Electronic-VE-MONK-earbud-earphone/32417311324.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...ug-Earbud-Bass-HIFI-Earphone/32806045266.html



And the EMX 500 for $10:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...ass-Earbuds-DJ-Earbuds-Heavy/32789378048.html

They are having a shootout with my Vido's at the moment, and I daresay they are winning.


----------



## ctaxxxx

gazzington said:


> Which blur model would you all recommended?



Blur 魔音 SPC if you don't mind paying more, but you may also not hear a difference. I don't know what your source is... (I recommend updating your signature or profile)

If you're willing to wait a couple days, I'll probably have impressions written up for the Blur 64 Premium (SPC, 2.5mm). It's the cheaper, warmer sibling.


----------



## voxdub

Received the Vido today, wow can understand the hype given how cheap they are...


----------



## Stevenpi1992

ctaxxxx said:


> Blur 魔音 SPC if you don't mind paying more, but you may also not hear a difference. I don't know what your source is... (I recommend updating your signature or profile)
> 
> If you're willing to wait a couple days, I'll probably have impressions written up for the Blur 64 Premium (SPC, 2.5mm). It's the cheaper, warmer sibling.



Just out of pure curiosity, are there any reviews or store listings for the Blur 魔音? I've seen the name here and there but Google searches don't return anything.


----------



## danimoca (Sep 7, 2017)

After listening the EMX500's for the whole day, I can say that, although they are still fantastic, the highs can be slightly harsh sometimes. But just sometimes, specially with bad recordings.

I can, however say, the bass and detail on these is really out of this world, for a pair of earbuds.


----------



## voxdub

danimoca said:


> After listening the EMX500's for the whole day, I can say that, although they are still fantastic, the highs can be slightly harsh sometimes. But just sometimes, specially with bad recordings.
> 
> I can, however say, the bass and detail on these is really out of this world, for a pair of earbuds.



They are exceptional buds, if you have a pair without any QC issues then you should be extremely happy with them.


----------



## Blueshound24

The mailman just dropped off my Tomahawks and *upon first listen* they are very nice, (this was a _very brief listening impression_). This was without any foams or donuts because I just wanted to have a quick listen. They seem to be balanced and neutral with good crisp highs, natural mids and airy with fairly wide sound stage and good imaging. The bass may be a just a tiny wee bit rolled off but has good extended sub bass. I don't mind that because I like the present and crisp highs and mids for detail and excitement. In listening to some Blues and Jazz, I believe this is a good bud for those genres. We'll see how they burn in, and how they sound with foams, but I think I will like them. I would imagine with foams, the bass will increase and the highs may be a little subdued.


----------



## theoutsider

Blueshound24 said:


> The mailman just dropped off my Tomahawks and *upon first listen* they are very nice, (this was a _very brief listening impression_). This was without any foams or donuts because I just wanted to have a quick listen. They seem to be balanced and neutral with good crisp highs, natural mids and airy with fairly wide sound stage and good imaging. The bass may be a just a tiny wee bit rolled off but has good extended sub bass. I don't mind that because I like the present and crisp highs and mids for detail and excitement. In listening to some Blues and Jazz, I believe this is a good bud for those genres. We'll see how they burn in, and how they sound with foams, but I think I will like them. I would imagine with foams, the bass will increase and the highs may be a little subdued.


Mine is arriving, I am not sure what to expect. I have a tp16, maybe they sound similar. So what other earbuds you currently own? How do you rank your tomahawk?


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 7, 2017)

Blueshound24 said:


> The mailman just dropped off my Tomahawks and *upon first listen* they are very nice, (this was a _very brief listening impression_). This was without any foams or donuts because I just wanted to have a quick listen. They seem to be balanced and neutral with good crisp highs, natural mids and airy with fairly wide sound stage and good imaging. The bass may be a just a tiny wee bit rolled off but has good extended sub bass. I don't mind that because I like the present and crisp highs and mids for detail and excitement. In listening to some Blues and Jazz, I believe this is a good bud for those genres. We'll see how they burn in, and how they sound with foams, but I think I will like them. I would imagine with foams, the bass will increase and the highs may be a little subdued.


For me burn in helped a bit with the veiled sound I was getting at certain frequencies. Until my shipment arrives with new buds from the Aliexpress sale I'm still using my tomahawks daily.

I bought the penon BS1 (kind of tomahawk reworked) as the reviews on here seemed to suggest that they were better at vocals and slightly less veiled sound than the hawks but in my opinion you get a slightly better vocal and slightly less thin sounding mids, but you sacrifice the airy and great soundstage and extension in the lows in the process which is a bad trade for me, also the BS1's treble is abit much at times, fatiguing in the higher frequencies

So yeah the tomahawks are nice, they just lack that little bit of smoothness at times for me personally as I like a neutral-slightly warm sound and the hawks are neutral-cold at times.

No foams gives a slightly better clarity, full foams (heigi foams for me) gives it a fuller sound imo, without sacrificing much clarity depending on the fit.

These are definitely buds I don't want to push deep into my ear, they sound better resting against my ear but not tightly as you still get the full sound (with full foams) but keep that lovely airy soundstage.

For the price they are good, just not the complete package for me!

If you could combine the best qualities of the tomahawk and the bs1 you'd have an amazing mid range bud all round. I would've loved to have seen the tomahawk in a wood shell or something done to reduce the 'metallic' veiled sound slightly. I guess some will not notice it as much with certain music genre's though


----------



## ctaxxxx

Stevenpi1992 said:


> Just out of pure curiosity, are there any reviews or store listings for the Blur 魔音? I've seen the name here and there but Google searches don't return anything.



You have to contact Wong Kuan Wae through Facebook, like a lot of other DIY individual sellers. (This is actually where a lot of my purchases come from)


----------



## snip3r77

Can you pls review graphene ?


ctaxxxx said:


> Blur 魔音 SPC if you don't mind paying more, but you may also not hear a difference. I don't know what your source is... (I recommend updating your signature or profile)
> 
> If you're willing to wait a couple days, I'll probably have impressions written up for the Blur 64 Premium (SPC, 2.5mm). It's the cheaper, warmer sibling.


----------



## Stevenpi1992

ctaxxxx said:


> You have to contact Wong Kuan Wae through Facebook, like a lot of other DIY individual sellers. (This is actually where a lot of my purchases come from)



Ah I see. Got it thanks!


----------



## doggiemom

I am such a dumbhead......... I received the AuGlamour RX1 a few days ago, and took them to work without opening the package.  When I opened it, I found this wood thing and what looked like a ninja throwing star....... I threw the wood thing in the garbage, and was fussing at a colleague about how the wood thing made it heavier to ship, and why did they include it because it just drove up the cost of the product.

Today when I went into the lab, a second colleague had taken the wood thing out of the garbage, and was using it as an iPhone stand.  He was very happy that someone had put a nice phone stand in the garbage.    So apparently if you order the RX1 you also get a nice iPhone stand.  I felt like such an idiot.


----------



## redkingjoe

waynes world said:


> I just did a bit of reading about the Lab 2's. Pretty innovative, that's for sure.



I first saw it in Japan. It was beautiful but I just couldn't believe in my eyes coz the price scarced so much that I asked my wife to confirm it was real.

At the end, I bought a second hand cheap model of that brand:


----------



## redkingjoe

vladstef said:


> Final audio Piano Forte series and Lab II are much closer to being earbuds. They have earbud drivers (15-16mm), many vents (semi open, like most earbuds), they don't isolate just like earbuds. The only problem with them is the price, they are not made for price to performance ratio and that's why they remain out of reach for so many. Form factor is amazing though, I've tried PF VIII and it's the most comfortable headphone of any kind, it just sits nicely and you don't even feel them. I am surprised that this form factor isn't more popular, especially knowing how big Final Audio is in Japan and China.



So it's a earbud. Is it really comfortable?

I have been lurking for long long time. I have been afraid of the fit, beside of the price.

I'm saving my money to get a second hand PF IX!

This design is the best for classical music, from the commentary of those users.


----------



## PT7673 (Sep 8, 2017)

@springbay you're not the only one but I wound't call it's useless.

I have a DIY graphene and I don't think it's great.

At first listening, it's very bright. So bright and sound so synthetic, I can't listen to them very long.

Let it burn for a while and it got better but still on the bright side.

It's a forward sound earbud so the sound stage is quite in-your-head kine of sound. Punchy sound, good impact.

High to upper mid is color,  mid is forward and low doesn't go deep. Just mid bass, very little sub bass.

I took it out and listen to it again for the last few days when I see many member comment about it but my thought of it still the same.


----------



## redkingjoe

gazzington said:


> Which blur model would you all recommended?



I also wanna know.

I like the silver housing so I bought the expensive one. And when I tried to order the expensive model, he said there's a even more expensive model with warmer sounding gold-plated cables. So I bought the gold-plated cable one. It is still breaking-in.

With one look, my wife commented that it is a very nice earphone.


----------



## theoutsider

doggiemom said:


> I am such a dumbhead......... I received the AuGlamour RX1 a few days ago, and took them to work without opening the package.  When I opened it, I found this wood thing and what looked like a ninja throwing star....... I threw the wood thing in the garbage, and was fussing at a colleague about how the wood thing made it heavier to ship, and why did they include it because it just drove up the cost of the product.
> 
> Today when I went into the lab, a second colleague had taken the wood thing out of the garbage, and was using it as an iPhone stand.  He was very happy that someone had put a nice phone stand in the garbage.    So apparently if you order the RX1 you also get a nice iPhone stand.  I felt like such an idiot.


Did you use the ninja star on somebody?


----------



## Raketen (Sep 7, 2017)

cursing said:


> Did you use the ninja star on somebody?



I guess it's there for retrieving accidentally discarded phone holders from frugal-but-violent colleagues?


----------



## theoutsider

Raketen said:


> I guess it's there for retrieving accidentally discarded phone holders from frugal-but-violent colleagues?


WAHAHA, that's a good one!


----------



## theoutsider

redkingjoe said:


> I first saw it in Japan. It was beautiful but I just couldn't believe in my eyes coz the price scarced so much that I asked my wife to confirm it was real.
> 
> At the end, I bought a second hand cheap model of that brand:


It's always nicer to listen to music with two kidneys around...


----------



## waynes world

PT7673 said:


> @springbay you're not the only one but I wound't call it's useless.
> 
> I have a DIY graphene and I don't think it's great.
> 
> ...



I so very hope that you and springbay are wrong lol


----------



## gazzington

redkingjoe said:


> I also wanna know.
> 
> I like the silver housing so I bought the expensive one. And when I tried to order the expensive model, he said there's a even more expensive model with warmer sounding gold-plated cables. So I bought the gold-plated cable one. It is still breaking-in.
> 
> With one look, my wife commented that it is a very nice earphone.


I am thinking of ordering the silver one. How much more was the gold?


----------



## redkingjoe

gazzington said:


> I am thinking of ordering the silver one. How much more was the gold?



The gold is S$100 more. I like the colour of the cable. 

But there's no way for me to know which one will actually sound better!


----------



## chaiyuta

@redkingjoe : Do you already own Blur 925Silver housing SonyFanboy Edition ?!!


----------



## redkingjoe

chaiyuta said:


> @redkingjoe : Do you already own Blur 925Silver housing SonyFanboy Edition ?!!



Yeh. It takes a lot of time to break-in.

Enjoying.

Just don't know whether the S$100 extra is only a gimmick.


----------



## Danneq

gazzington said:


> Shozy stardust or rose mojito for a heavy rock metal fan?  Or something else?  Love vidos at the moment



I second the Stardust recommendation. I found Mojito to be too sharp sounding for metal. Stardust works much better for me.


----------



## Danneq (Sep 8, 2017)

waynes world said:


> I'll be interested interested in your impressions of the graphene buds, and the the Victors. Where the heck did you find them?



Will leave my impressions of the graphene, Yincrow 777 and Moondrop Nameless as soon as I receive them.

I found the Victor HP AL1000 on Ebay. Have been looking for them for year. I could have bought them at Yodobashi in Japan when I lived there in 2010 but never did, and then they were discontinued just a few years later...


----------



## mbwilson111

doggiemom said:


> I am such a dumbhead......... I received the AuGlamour RX1 a few days ago, and took them to work without opening the package.  When I opened it, I found this wood thing and what looked like a ninja throwing star....... I threw the wood thing in the garbage, and was fussing at a colleague about how the wood thing made it heavier to ship, and why did they include it because it just drove up the cost of the product.
> 
> Today when I went into the lab, a second colleague had taken the wood thing out of the garbage, and was using it as an iPhone stand.  He was very happy that someone had put a nice phone stand in the garbage.    So apparently if you order the RX1 you also get a nice iPhone stand.  I felt like such an idiot.



Thanks for the heads-up.  I have an RX1 one coming. I will keep the wood thing although I do not have an iPhone


----------



## theoutsider

mbwilson111 said:


> Thanks for the heads-up.  I have an RX1 one coming. I will keep the wood thing although I do not have an iPhone


it is actually just a block of wood with a cutout, you can dock an android or a whatever on it.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 8, 2017)

cursing said:


> it is actually just a block of wood with a cutout, you can dock an android or a whatever on it.


Not much of a fan of products that ship with pointless extras like that or the metal badge thingy! Would rather they put that money into the actual product or take it offthe price... lol

Earbud cases I can understand, but still my favourite package to open is the barebones earbud and foams only. That way I know the company is putting it into the product... in most cases


----------



## letlive

I have the Vido and I like the sound signature. Another recommendations *under $20* *with mic*?


----------



## seanc6441

letlive said:


> I have the Vido and I like the sound signature. Another recommendations *under $20* *with mic*?


You probably already know this but you can get the Vido with a mic.


----------



## theoutsider

seanc6441 said:


> Not much of a fan of products that ship with pointless extras like that or the metal badge thingy! Would rather they put that money into the actual product or take it offthe price... lol
> 
> Earbud cases I can understand, but still my favourite package to open is the barebones earbud and foams only. That way I know the company is putting it into the product... in most cases


It is supposed to be a marketing ploy. The company assumed you will place the whatever-in-the-box on your desk. Consequently, your friends and colleagues will be lured into getting their products 

ok, that's a lot of assumptions....


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 8, 2017)

cursing said:


> It is supposed to be a marketing ploy. The company assumed you will place the whatever-in-the-box on your desk. Consequently, your friends and colleagues will be lured into getting their products
> 
> ok, that's a lot of assumptions....



These days I like to think consumers are more aware of product quality and less enticed by marketing ploys when buying products... then again beats headphones are still successful so maybe not... lol

I bought the RX1 based on reviews for night use because it's apparently quite comfortable but seeing all these extra gimmicks isn't my cup of tea lol.

I hope the earphones themselves are quality.


----------



## jogawag (Sep 8, 2017)

letlive said:


> I have the Vido and I like the sound signature. Another recommendations *under $20* *with mic*?



how about Blue EVER Blue 328 RM ?


----------



## ricesteam

Are you using any foams?  I find the EMX500 brighter than the Graphene. 





PT7673 said:


> @springbay you're not the only one but I wound't call it's useless.
> 
> I have a DIY graphene and I don't think it's great.
> 
> ...


----------



## waynes world

ricesteam said:


> Are you using any foams?  I find the EMX500 brighter than the Graphene.



I don't find the EMX500's to be too bright, so I'm happy to read that I might not find blood dripping out of my ears with the graphene's 

What foams are you using with the graphene's? Fwiw, I use the supplied red foams with the EMX500's (and monk+ thin foams on the Vido's, otherwise bass overblown).


----------



## ricesteam

I like warmth, so I use thick foams for most of my buds.



waynes world said:


> I don't find the EMX500's to be too bright, so I'm happy to read that I might not find blood dripping out of my ears with the graphene's
> 
> What foams are you using with the graphene's? Fwiw, I use the supplied red foams with the EMX500's (and monk+ thin foams on the Vido's, otherwise bass overblown).


----------



## waynes world

ricesteam said:


> I wouldn't say one is better than the other. They both sound amazing. Just different sound signatures. If anything, Graphene has slightly better mids and soundstage, but depends on the song.
> 
> If you have the budget, get one. It's good to have a variety of sound signatures in your collection in case you get bored of one.
> 
> Budget earbud these days are simply incredible. I remember during the Yuin PK days, it's very easy to tell apart from budget to TOTL, like night and day. But today, the lines are becoming blurry.





ricesteam said:


> I like warmth, so I use thick foams for most of my buds.



I like a bit of warmth as well, and I also like to have some variation, and I like things that "sound amazing". So I am looking forward to hearing this enigmatic graphenes


----------



## camikeva

I apologize in advance for this being slightly off topic, but I'm looking for the little wings or fins that help keep ear buds situated in the ear.  I got a couple of them when I bought the Monk Plus accessory pack, and they really help.  Now that I have the Vido and the DIY EMX 500 on order, I'd like to buy some more wings, but can't locate on Ali.  Can anyone help?


----------



## vladstef

camikeva said:


> I apologize in advance for this being slightly off topic, but I'm looking for the little wings or fins that help keep ear buds situated in the ear.  I got a couple of them when I bought the Monk Plus accessory pack, and they really help.  Now that I have the Vido and the DIY EMX 500 on order, I'd like to buy some more wings, but can't locate on Ali.  Can anyone help?



Here and here. I didn't order this, can't say if these are good. You could find more in the suggested items on the bottom of each page.


----------



## ricesteam

waynes world said:


> I like a bit of warmth as well, and I also like to have some variation, and I like things that "sound amazing". So I am looking forward to hearing this enigmatic graphenes



I hope you like them, but don't take my word for it. Luckily, these buds are low cost so the risks are relatively small.


----------



## camikeva

vladstef said:


> Here and here. I didn't order this, can't say if these are good. You could find more in the suggested items on the bottom of each page.



Thank you for your help.  I could only fine ipod or jbud wings, which looked too small.  These look like they will fit.  I ordered.

Thanks again.


----------



## springbay

mbwilson111 said:


> Thanks for the heads-up.  I have an RX1 one coming. I will keep the wood thing although I do not have an iPhone



Pro tip: the included rubber rings are meant to stack audio gear. Not what Zeos usually implies.


----------



## doggiemom

cursing said:


> Did you use the ninja star on somebody?


No, I'm saving it for a day when a customer really pisses me off.  
Actually, the corners are really sharp........ it could be used to open the shrink wrap on earbud packages.


----------



## doggiemom

springbay said:


> Pro tip: the included rubber rings are meant to stack audio gear. Not what Zeos usually implies.


I gave one to the colleague who did not take the phone stand...... we are wearing them as friendship bracelets until this awful project is over, LOL!

There was a purple band and a black band.  The earphones (and all the other stuff) was $20 on Gearbest.  They are very nice for $20.


----------



## vladstef

People, Auglamour is made for listening, other extra stuff is just...extra. Besides, everything has a good purpose except that metal logo thingy which is worth like 0.1$ in mass production. Wooden stand wouldn't be just a price increase if it was just used as a part of box and presentation, but because they gave it an interesting new purpose, it's suddenly bad and unnecessary? Keep it in the plastic box and have it be a part of your unboxing experience if it helps you sleep at night.

Sorry for this micro rant. I just find this whole package that comes with RX-1 kinda cute and unique, maybe that's its biggest purpose, to charm us, as if these buds weren't gorgeous already.


----------



## mbwilson111

vladstef said:


> People, Auglamour is made for listening, other extra stuff is just...extra. Besides, everything has a good purpose except that metal logo thingy which is worth like 0.1$ in mass production. Wooden stand wouldn't be just a price increase if it was just used as a part of box and presentation, but because they gave it an interesting new purpose, it's suddenly bad and unnecessary? Keep it in the plastic box and have it be a part of your unboxing experience if it helps you sleep at night.
> 
> Sorry for this micro rant. I just find this whole package that comes with RX-1 kinda cute and unique, maybe that's its biggest purpose, to charm us, as if these buds weren't gorgeous already.



All this talk about the extras is making me look forward to the arrival of mine even more!  ...and I will wear the purple bracelet


----------



## doggiemom

vladstef said:


> People, Auglamour is made for listening, other extra stuff is just...extra. Besides, everything has a good purpose except that metal logo thingy which is worth like 0.1$ in mass production. Wooden stand wouldn't be just a price increase if it was just used as a part of box and presentation, but because they gave it an interesting new purpose, it's suddenly bad and unnecessary? Keep it in the plastic box and have it be a part of your unboxing experience if it helps you sleep at night.
> 
> Sorry for this micro rant. I just find this whole package that comes with RX-1 kinda cute and unique, maybe that's its biggest purpose, to charm us, as if these buds weren't gorgeous already.


I don't have a problem with it because $20 is a very reasonable price for the sound quality of these buds.  And it made a colleague happy!  (Okay, I'll admit, I did think the Star Trek communicator badge was silly, but the other stuff is useful).


----------



## snip3r77

doggiemom said:


> I don't have a problem with it because $20 is a very reasonable price for the sound quality of these buds.  And it made a colleague happy!  (Okay, I'll admit, I did think the Star Trek communicator badge was silly, but the other stuff is useful).


Tossing around between emx 500 , graphene and rx1 . Coming from vido .


----------



## golov17

mbwilson111 said:


> ...and I will wear the purple bracelet


----------



## theoutsider

golov17 said:


>


so the much more expensive Moondrop VX Pro came with no fancy accessories?


----------



## golov17

cursing said:


> so the much more expensive Moondrop VX Pro came with no fancy accessories?


Yeah


----------



## jogawag (Sep 8, 2017)

cursing said:


> so the much more expensive Moondrop VX Pro came with no fancy accessories?


Moondrop VX Pro comes with exquisite sound quality.


----------



## chinmie

golov17 said:


>



how many foams do you use? a full foam and a ve monk foam?


----------



## golov17

chinmie said:


> how many foams do you use? a full foam and a ve monk foam?


Yep, but various sometimes..


----------



## chinmie

golov17 said:


> Yep, but various sometimes..



this is currently my favorite earbuds 
how is the vx pro compred to the masya or K's?


----------



## golov17

chinmie said:


> this is currently my favorite earbuds
> how is the vx pro compred to the masya or K's?


does not bend until now


----------



## redkingjoe

I love the built, look and the housing of the Moondrop but I hate the quality of the material used, especially the quality of the cable's conductor...using 4N purity is like living in history.

I have always been thinking of feeding a super cable to one of the better Moondrop models.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 9, 2017)

vladstef said:


> People, Auglamour is made for listening, other extra stuff is just...extra. Besides, everything has a good purpose except that metal logo thingy which is worth like 0.1$ in mass production. Wooden stand wouldn't be just a price increase if it was just used as a part of box and presentation, but because they gave it an interesting new purpose, it's suddenly bad and unnecessary? Keep it in the plastic box and have it be a part of your unboxing experience if it helps you sleep at night.
> 
> Sorry for this micro rant. I just find this whole package that comes with RX-1 kinda cute and unique, maybe that's its biggest purpose, to charm us, as if these buds weren't gorgeous already.



Sure it's nice to look at but I prefer practicality in my packaging 

The metal badge thing is completely pointless, the bands are actually useful though for some, the wood block is just a strange inclusion but can be useful to some I guess.

I don't know I guess if i'm buying earbuds I want my accessories to complement my earbuds. Instead of adding the metal badge or wood why not include earhooks, extra buds etc.

Think of all the waste of production time, resources and money just to make a metalbadge and medicore phone stand. Not to mention to price raise to us consumers to transport the extra bulk. Nah not for me sorry.

Just my 2 cents lol

(He says after buying the RX1 LMAO)


----------



## BloodyPenguin

My Masya with the Microphone cable from the KZ ED12:


----------



## seanc6441

BloodyPenguin said:


> My Masya with the Microphone cable from the KZ ED12:


I'm hyped up waiting for mine. Probably be the closest I get to TOTL on a reasonable budget.


----------



## Saoshyant

BloodyPenguin said:


> My Masya with the Microphone cable from the KZ ED12:



My Rose Pudding hates the KZ cables.  Drastic loss of sub-bass.  The only real cable change difference I've ever heard.


----------



## silverfishla

waynes world said:


> I don't find the EMX500's to be too bright, so I'm happy to read that I might not find blood dripping out of my ears with the graphene's
> 
> What foams are you using with the graphene's? Fwiw, I use the supplied red foams with the EMX500's (and monk+ thin foams on the Vido's, otherwise bass overblown).


The difference between using a thin foam on the MX500 and using a Monk Full foam is pretty drastic.  I find the the Full foams to be the most pleasing with these.  Big huge sound but with clarity still.  I thought that they sounded thin with the provided foams.
And by the way, I'm one of those that love the Graphene bud.  I think it is unique sounding and quite amazing for the cost.


----------



## vladstef

Using Fengru EMX500 and Sine Gen, just increasing frequency and listening how the driver behaves, I have to say that they are amazing. They will definitely measure like champs (can't find any professional graphs), everything beyond 4-5K usually starts dropping, especially with budget headphones, but these just keep it up an running. Amazing energy, just how I heard it with music, but it was a nice exercise. The only nasty thing about these is quality control, otherwise they are budget kings for ages really.


----------



## HungryPanda

I find the graphene buds great with singer-songwriters & folk in particular


----------



## seanc6441

vladstef said:


> Using Fengru EMX500 and Sine Gen, just increasing frequency and listening how the driver behaves, I have to say that they are amazing. They will definitely measure like champs (can't find any professional graphs), everything beyond 4-5K usually starts dropping, especially with budget headphones, but these just keep it up an running. Amazing energy, just how I heard it with music, but it was a nice exercise. The only nasty thing about these is quality control, otherwise they are budget kings for ages really.


I should've  bought 3 in the sale and get refunded any faulty ones lol. Seems like a bud you wouldn't mind having a few of...


----------



## Santojob

HungryPanda said:


> I find the graphene buds great with singer-songwriters & folk in particular



What about the basses of the NICEHCK DIY Graphene MX760 headset?


----------



## HungryPanda

the bass is strong and tight, I love that about these graphene drivers


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Which one is the Correct DIY Graphene that you guys are talking about, I see several from Different sellers.


----------



## activatorfly (Sep 9, 2017)

MidNighTempest said:


> Which one is the Correct DIY Graphene that you guys are talking about, I see several from Different sellers.


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...High-End-Rare-Earth-Graphene/32821104494.html


----------



## HungryPanda

activatorfly said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...High-End-Rare-Earth-Graphene/32821104494.html



The exact place I got mine, got a better price using the app and a coupon


----------



## activatorfly

HungryPanda said:


> The exact place I got mine, got a better price using the app and a coupon


How much reduction does the app offer?


----------



## HungryPanda

it differs from seller to seller, normally a couple of dollars


----------



## redkingjoe

silverfishla said:


> The difference between using a thin foam on the MX500 and using a Monk Full foam is pretty drastic.  I find the the Full foams to be the most pleasing with these.  Big huge sound but with clarity still.  I thought that they sounded thin with the provided foams.
> And by the way, I'm one of those that love the Graphene bud.  I think it is unique sounding and quite amazing for the cost.



I found that using thick foam will "suck" away some of the details of the music.


----------



## redkingjoe

seanc6441 said:


> I should've  bought 3 in the sale and get refunded any faulty ones lol. Seems like a bud you wouldn't mind having a few of...



With such a good price, we might buy a dozen and send to upgrade for higher end warmer cable...just like upgrading the monk+


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Some of my thoughts and photos I took of the *NICEHCK DIY Graphene*:

I'm REALLY liking the NICEHCK DIY Graphene. It is such a great all around earbud. Teases at neutral. Sub-bass is tame and under control. Mids are simple and musical. Highs are tame and rolled off nicely.

Also, I must say, I LOVE the look. The build is nice and the cable is not as tangly as I first thought it would be.

As for fit, I personally like this style and find it super comfortable. Though I am sure this shape can treat everyone different.

Overall, it is really quite a nice earbud for the price.  Also great for those just starting out with earbuds.






















--


----------



## MLTKSHHBT

Anyone who happens to own both blur silver and Campfred 2 can make a comparison between the two?
Is Campfred 2 an upgrade or side grade to blur?


----------



## gazzington

Just listening to some metal using she3800. They are amazing for less than £5


----------



## danimoca

Anyone can do a comparison between the *NICEHCK DIY Graphene *and the EMX500's?


----------



## HungryPanda

I have both, the EMX500 is a full enjoyable sound, the graphene has a more neutral sound with a more controlled bass and imo clearer sounding mid and highs. Both are great earbuds and I would take either


----------



## vladstef

I just managed to fix my Fengru EMX500 and the sound is even better than I remembered. These are god tier earbuds and now I think that they are a clear upgrade to Vido.
The problem with rattling at extra high volume remains, this only happens if you push them quite a bit beyond normal loud listening levels. It's clearly not distortion, these drivers are amazing really, the problem is not enough pressure on the back of the driver. Had the same problem with Vidos where it was resolved by opening and closing the shells. I won't really try to mess with this as it isn't a problem, you really need to push the volume and even then, it only happens with some music - I would only do this for testing and not regular listening. I think this just proves how good the membrane and driver in general is, it is capable of impressive energy output, enough to move the bloody plastic that is pressuring it before showing any signs of distortion. How do you do this at 10$??


----------



## snip3r77

HungryPanda said:


> I have both, the EMX500 is a full enjoyable sound, the graphene has a more neutral sound with a more controlled bass and imo clearer sounding mid and highs. Both are great earbuds and I would take either


which has more bass SLAM?


----------



## ClieOS

Moondrop (水月雨) Nameless / 无名
潜韵 (Qian) 潜69 2nd Gen.
YinCrow RW-777


----------



## HungryPanda

EMX500 if you want bass for sure


----------



## jant71

I know that the Moondrop are laid across the top of them but that cable looks quite well behaved.


----------



## golov17

ClieOS said:


> Moondrop (水月雨) Nameless / 无名
> 潜韵 (Qian) 潜69 2nd Gen.
> YinCrow RW-777


Moondrop Jr on the way to me


----------



## vladstef

Oh my, Moondrop Nameless looks amazing. Cable looks premium, wish that they kept shiny silver color from the renders but black will suffice.


----------



## tinkertailor

vladstef said:


> I just managed to fix my Fengru EMX500 and the sound is even better than I remembered. These are god tier earbuds and now I think that they are a clear upgrade to Vido.
> The problem with rattling at extra high volume remains, this only happens if you push them quite a bit beyond normal loud listening levels. It's clearly not distortion, these drivers are amazing really, the problem is not enough pressure on the back of the driver. Had the same problem with Vidos where it was resolved by opening and closing the shells. I won't really try to mess with this as it isn't a problem, you really need to push the volume and even then, it only happens with some music - I would only do this for testing and not regular listening. I think this just proves how good the membrane and driver in general is, it is capable of impressive energy output, enough to move the bloody plastic that is pressuring it before showing any signs of distortion. How do you do this at 10$??




I agree that the sound is amazing. I think you are understating the defect. I have had two pairs , different cable types, same thing happens. I listen to indie rock music mostly (see my profile) and its not what anyone would call extreme bass and I listen without an amp — just right out of the phone of laptop. they now rattle (like a speaker rattle) during bass peaks at regular listening levels. If you can tell me a way to fix it fine, but people should know that there is a high probability that this bud has a high probability of developing this issue. So at $10 its amazing,but for me one pair lasted 2 months, another less than 1 month. (I listen everyday on my buds). I just don't want people to have to experience things the hard way. I now use the FAAEAL 32 as my main buds. smooth and clear sound, lacks a tad of th ebass of the vido, but way less distortion and still way more bass than monks.


----------



## doggiemom

snip3r77 said:


> Tossing around between emx 500 , graphene and rx1 . Coming from vido .


Haven't heard the graphene, but emx500 is too bright for me.  RX1 is pretty neutral, with some emphasis on vocals.  And you get a phone stand and communicator pin!


----------



## vladstef

tinkertailor said:


> I agree that the sound is amazing. I think you are understating the defect. I have had two pairs , different cable types, same thing happens. I listen to indie rock music mostly (see my profile) and its not what anyone would call extreme bass and I listen without an amp — just right out of the phone of laptop. they now rattle (like a speaker rattle) during bass peaks at regular listening levels. If you can tell me a way to fix it fine, but people should know that there is a high probability that this bud has a high probability of developing this issue. So at $10 its amazing,but for me one pair lasted 2 months, another less than 1 month. (I listen everyday on my buds). I just don't want people to have to experience things the hard way. I now use the FAAEAL 32 as my main buds. smooth and clear sound, lacks a tad of th ebass of the vido, but way less distortion and still way more bass than monks.



There should be a simple solution for this because it is not a defect and isn't a driver fault/malfunction. I am not downplaying it, my pair works amazingly well currently. I can only imagine a reason why it started rattling only after some time and not from the beginning. When you keep inserting them, the connection between 2 plastic parts of the shell starts creating this issue.
For a potential fix (which could be permanent), try opening them up and closing again. They aren't the easiest things to open, there is glue involved. I used a knife and pushed it all around the edge of plastic, then I tried to pull it away with my fingernail. Be careful not to pull too hard, you don't want to destroy the membrane or its connection to the driver. 
You could stop there and return everything, but I went further with my pair. Driver was glued in, I used a knife to remove visible glue from the driver and surrounding plastic and then the driver could be pulled away. I carefully started pulling the membrane from the bottom (part that is opposite to the cutout where the coil wires go from driver to membrane). Some glue managed to come in between membrane and rest of the driver (maybe it was intentional, but I ended up pulling carefully enough to stretch this glue until the membrane broke free). Obviously, the membrane must be close to the driver at all times, coil wires mustn't be damaged otherwise the driver is a goner. So, removing and reinserting the driver could be a second step of solution, if just opening and closing them doesn't work out.
Last option would be to extend the plastic of the back part of the case so that it creates additional pressure on the back of the driver when it's closed. Perhaps gluing a few layers of paper on the thin plastic all around could be a solution. I didn't do this last part as I don't need to at the moment, plus, I am going to use these drivers for my DIY Piano Forte build anyways.

When I opened EMX500, that was only the second pair of earbuds that I had opened, it is very simple if you are careful. The first pair was Vido and I didn't destroy anything there either. Here is a photo of EMX500, maybe it will have some value for anyone who has issues and would like to try some of this.


----------



## theoutsider

golov17 said:


> Moondrop Jr on the way to me


mine as well


----------



## theoutsider (Sep 10, 2017)

ClieOS said:


> Moondrop (水月雨) Nameless / 无名
> 潜韵 (Qian) 潜69 2nd Gen.
> YinCrow RW-777


Wow, fresh from the oven(s)!!!
Care to share your first impressions of those earbuds? thanks.


----------



## PT7673

ricesteam said:


> Are you using any foams?  I find the EMX500 brighter than the Graphene.



I'm using full foams from the package. My Graphene is from NICEHCK, by the way.

For me I don't find EMX500 brighter. 

Maybe there are enough sub-bass in EMX500 to balance the extended high. But the high is quite natural not color as I hear from Graphene.

Different ears, different taste. Sometime I wonder, are we talking about the same earbud? lol


----------



## tinkertailor

vladstef said:


> There should be a simple solution for this because it is not a defect and isn't a driver fault/malfunction. I am not downplaying it, my pair works amazingly well currently. I can only imagine a reason why it started rattling only after some time and not from the beginning. When you keep inserting them, the connection between 2 plastic parts of the shell starts creating this issue.
> For a potential fix (which could be permanent), try opening them up and closing again.



Thanks  for the tip, I'll check it out and if it works I'll get back to you.


----------



## ClieOS

cursing said:


> Wow, fresh from the oven(s)!!!
> Care to share your first impressions of those earbuds? thanks.



Nameless still has the Moondrop's house signature - airy, open and detailed. But it is also tuned just a little warmer than its bigger brother so it is probably the most balanced (as far as warm vs. neutral goes) in the family and should be quite enjoyable for both sides. On a side note, I really like the cable on this earbud.

The new Qian69 is very much like the old version, very fun and dynamic. I'll say they are >90% similar in sound, as the new version is slightly less open than the old version but with a more textured mid range. If you already have the old version, I don't think you need to rush out to get the new one. However, given the same low price, both version are still great bargain, which is pretty much how Qian like to market their products.

RW-777 is the new flagship from YinCrow. The tuning is kind of different from their earlier model, the X6, which has a slightly V-shaped sound that emphasis on dynamic and energy. The RW-777 on the other hand has more of a mature sound - warm and smooth with a pretty good mid-range. If you already own the X6, the RW-777 will compliment it very well. One thing to note is that the housing is a copy from Hifiman's ES100, but made out of metal instead of plastic and surprisingly quite comfortable. As far as SQ goes, it is also well ahead of ES100.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

QianYun Qian69 - Earbud

www.aliexpress.com/item/Newest-QianYun-Qian69-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud-Dynamic-Flat-Head-Plug-Earbud-Bass-HIFI-Earphone-Bass/32830311159.html

What a little GEM! Crisp highs, smooth mids and just a touch of sub-bass. Nice, clear wide soundstage. These are SUPER light and fit great! Only issue is the cable is very thin and not the best 3.5mm plug. These would be great for quick re-cable for those so incline.

The Qian69 is quite a nice surprise. I was not expecting to like them so much.  Plus they are very photogenic.  





















--


----------



## theoutsider (Sep 11, 2017)

ClieOS said:


> Nameless still has the Moondrop's house signature - airy, open and detailed. But it is also tuned just a little warmer than its bigger brother so it is probably the most balanced (as far as warm vs. neutral goes) in the family and should be quite enjoyable for both sides. On a side note, I really like the cable on this earbud.
> 
> The new Qian69 is very much like the old version, very fun and dynamic. I'll say they are >90% similar in sound, as the new version is slightly less open than the old version but with a more textured mid range. If you already have the old version, I don't think you need to rush out to get the new one. However, given the same low price, both version are still great bargain, which is pretty much how Qian like to market their products.
> 
> RW-777 is the new flagship from YinCrow. The tuning is kind of different from their earlier model, the X6, which has a slightly V-shaped sound that emphasis on dynamic and energy. The RW-777 on the other hand has more of a mature sound - warm and smooth with a pretty good mid-range. If you already own the X6, the RW-777 will compliment it very well. One thing to note is that the housing is a copy from Hifiman's ES100, but made out of metal instead of plastic and surprisingly quite comfortable. As far as SQ goes, it is also well ahead of ES100.


Many thanks for you very insightful opinions (as always). My Moondrop Nameless is probably on the plane here or has already landed on the shore now. I have not tried Nameless so I can't comment on the sound but aesthetically speaking, Nameless does not look half as nice as the more expensive brothers.

I have a Qian39 for a while now and I used to enjoy it a lot. Since the earbud maker 潜 himself stated in Taobao that if you have small ears go for 39, implying that Qian69 is physically bigger than 39, I decided to just pass on 69.


----------



## ballog

ClieOS said:


> The new Qian69 is very much like the old version, very fun and dynamic. I'll say they are >90% similar in sound, as the new version is slightly less open than the old version but with a more textured mid range. If you already have the old version, I don't think you need to rush out to get the new one. However, given the same low price, both version are still great bargain, which is pretty much how Qian like to market their products.



@ClieOS by 'old version' you meant Qian39,right?


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi (Sep 11, 2017)

BloodyPenguin said:


> Some of my thoughts and photos I took of the *NICEHCK DIY Graphene*:
> 
> I'm REALLY liking the NICEHCK DIY Graphene. It is such a great all around earbud. Teases at neutral. Sub-bass is tame and under control. Mids are simple and musical. Highs are tame and rolled off nicely.
> 
> ...




Are you doing a Review on Them? I'm curious how it stack up against some of the Higher Priced Earbuds


----------



## theoutsider

ballog said:


> @ClieOS by 'old version' you meant Qian39,right?


QianYun69 was released last year (or earlier?) but the production and sales of 69 were halted due to quality issues. The manufacturer stated on Baidu Tieba that they received complaints about the plating flaking off and faceplate falling off by itself. Aside from the mechanical issues, they also brightened the high frequency area and did some adjustments to the sound.

You can not tell apart the new version from the old. They look exactly the same.


----------



## euge

Hi guys, new here, been lurking for a while now, would be grateful for some advice and comparison from those more experienced. 

I currently own a 1MORE quad, ve asura 2 and a TFZ E3. 

I'm looking for an earbud that has more clarity than the asura but slightly warmer than the quads with a large soundstage.

The ones on my list atm are

1 Rose Masya
2 Shozy BK
3 Toneking TY2
4 1MORE E1008

Do any of you own either of these mentioned and have a comparison between the ones I own, as I do not have the luxury of testing these chinese products in person.

The Rose Mojito sounds like the one I'm looking for but i'm unwilling to spend that much, for now...

Cheers!


----------



## danimoca

@ClieOS, you should really try the EMX500's.


----------



## maxxevv

Just took delivery of the PMV B01's.  First impressions are that they sound pretty smooth.  Not sure if they need a burn-in though.  

Anyone got insights on the burn-in if any required for these ??  THanks.


----------



## hellfire8888

anyone have the impression on K's earbud 300 samsara version?


----------



## waynes world

BloodyPenguin said:


> QianYun Qian69 - Earbud
> 
> www.aliexpress.com/item/Newest-QianYun-Qian69-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud-Dynamic-Flat-Head-Plug-Earbud-Bass-HIFI-Earphone-Bass/32830311159.html
> 
> ...



Huh, only $11! I love the Qian39's. I see a pair of 69's in my future!

I do like their unique look as well.


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Huh, only $11! I love the Qian39's. I see a pair of 69's in my future!
> 
> I do like their unique look as well.



Ordered a few things during the aliexpress sale.  The Qian39s were delived Saturday and I really like them.  They were only £3.63.  The 69s should arrive any day now. They were £6.94.  Just could not resist at that price.  I like how they look too.


----------



## rggz

hellfire8888 said:


> anyone have the impression on K's earbud 300 samsara version?



The user @springbay has written up good impressions on this post: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1509#post-13695968


----------



## ricesteam

PT7673 said:


> I'm using full foams from the package. My Graphene is from NICEHCK, by the way.
> 
> For me I don't find EMX500 brighter.
> 
> ...



Well, as somebody would put it, your ears must be broken. Jk. Lol but yeah...discussion and opinions of earbud sounds is highly subjective.  At the end of the day, the main question is how deep are you willing to dive into this hobby?  Risks are taken if you're going to pursue that "sound".


----------



## vladstef

I have a few ways of fitting earbuds and all of them change the sound in very drastic ways. The point is always to have as much of the front surface directly facing your ear canal. I have a very normal ear shape (never had a fitting issue with any IEM), but earbuds don't sound the best to me when worn normally. My ear canal is towards the front of my head meaning that putting earbuds regularly, the sound has to bounce around before it reaches my canal as the driver is facing my head and goes kinda sideways to where my canal is. I suspect that this is the case with 95% of the people. Obviously, we could push the driver exactly in our canal and hold it with hands, but this is not a solution. This also doesn't produce correct sound as it potentially creates seal which doesn't pair well with earbuds. I think I almost damaged my ears when I pushed Auglamour without foams directly to my canal and it created an impressive seal but also a very uncomfortable pressure on my eardrum.
The best way of wearing any earbud for me is: driver goes sideways, front of it faces towards the front of me and this way most of it ends up facing my canal the way it should be. Most earbuds have a hard tail where the cable goes in, and this gets in the way, so in order to put the driver sideways, I had to loop the cables around my ears and wear them upside down.

I already mentioned it here and I am doing it again because I am kinda surprised that people are not talking about this more. It makes way too much of a difference for me and I can't be the only one. This way of wearing them makes you look like a complete idiot though, but most of us wear earbuds in isolated environments anyways.

For example, Auglamour sounded way too thin with some weird peaks in the lower treble and after putting them properly, they have neutral bass and peaks are gone. EMX500 sounded bright and now it's just pure energy. The difference is massive, probably because it's, relatively speaking, a small driver and the sound is leaking but not going directly where it should be.


----------



## ctaxxxx (Sep 11, 2017)

Wrote up some quick impressions on the Blur 64 Premium (basically 64 ohm driver with SPC cable). Will revise it later after more listening. Been sick all week...



ctaxxxx said:


> Blur 64 Premium
> 
> *AMP1 BAL:* Mid-tier earbud with a warmer sound signature compared to the Blur 魔音. Same mid-focused approach, but with more mid-bass bloom and sweeter vocals. Bass extension is still there and overall sound is no longer clinical or dry at all. Treble is a little smoother as well, but cymbals still retain that shimmer. Not as resolving in comparison, but more forgiving due to it’s warmer nature.
> 
> ...



Not sure which Blur I like better now. Both take a different approach to vocals (analytical / dry vs smooth / warm). I definitely feel these sound much better balanced, since the vocals don't sound as forward with the much larger soundstage, especially for Blur 魔音, which can sound too forward at times through 3.5mm SE.


----------



## Saoshyant

My Qian69 should hopefully arrive today.  Given the description, and considering how I"m a fan of the Qian39, I'm pretty excited


----------



## golov17

Saoshyant said:


> My Qian69 should hopefully arrive today.  Given the description, and considering how I"m a fan of the Qian39, I'm pretty excited


I was too lazy to take them from the post office .. I hope, tomorrow I'll take it back.


----------



## seanc6441

ricesteam said:


> At the end of the day, the main question is how deep are you willing to dive into this hobby?  Risks are taken if you're going to pursue that "sound".


Real question is, how deep is your love?


lol


----------



## Saoshyant

golov17 said:


> I was too lazy to take them from the post office .. I hope, tomorrow I'll take it back.



I just hope my cat doesn't take off with them like he did my usb C OTG adapter so I can hook my Shanling M1 up to my Micro iDSD BL.  I still have another dap I can use as transport, but still annoyed as the last thing he took ended up being lost for 3 weeks.


----------



## GregBe

Ok, I apologize in advance for this question, as I am sure it has been answered before, but here it goes...

Looking for a non-isolating earbud with in-line controls for Android phone.  I don't care about a mic...just the ability to skip tracks and change the volume while working out.  Budget...I can go up to $100.  I like a warmer sound signature with solid but not excessive bass (something like the Audioquest Nighthawk signature).

Thanks in advance for you help!
Greg


----------



## DBaldock9

I'd suggest this cable (available in Black / Blue / Brown) for $13.88  - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Wit...5-se425-se535-Se846-LN004900/32811373313.html
and the _new_ **** PT15 for $8.80 - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...arplhone-With-MMCX-Interface/32756183154.html
or the Svara-L Escase for $78.10 - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...e-Top-Sound-Bass-Earbud-With/32807384267.html

I've got the earlier 115Ω version of the Svara-L, and it has quite a bit of Bass.  I don't know how much the sound has changed, with them going to a 32Ω driver.


----------



## Saoshyant

@GregBe   For most people, excessive bass in an earbud can only be achieved through heavy EQ.  One of our basshead members for example would push around +26 dB, where I believe I'm pushing maybe +20 dB (not actually marked on Opus #1 so those could be .5 dB steps) plus ifi XBass.  And even then, I wouldn't call it excessive, just fun.

Your sound signature request should be easy enough, although I've mever heard the example can, but in-line controls can be rare unless we're talking detachable cable.  I'd be inclined to suggest Rose Technology Masya as it has respectable bass, lovely vocals, non-murderous treble and a detachable cable (.75mm 2-pin annoyingly enough) but last I checked it's a hair above $100 at I believe 109 or so, and some people have fit issues which might affect work-outs.

My favorite over-ear detachable cable warm sub-100 earbud is the Svara-L, but soon after release it was changed from a 115 to 32 ohm earbud for the sake of phone-friendliness (or at least that was my understanding) so cannot currently comment on the sound sig or quality, but others here did buy it as this iteration came out.  Also, given your in-line requirement 115 ohm might be too much for your source.  Hopefully someone can chime in on the other version.  I've heard some rumors the bass was tamed, but cannot confirm.

If you're not needing the top quality sound available, there are less expensive options like the 1More EO320 which meets your bass & control requirements, has a sturdy construction, a reasonably enjoyable sound with enough bass for most, and hopefully can stay put for a work-out.  There are also reports that the new version of the **** PT15 (which originally were my treble-head budget recommendation) were given a bit more bass to fix the somewhat anemic nature from before (I should give this a listen as the quality for the price on the original was actually really quite good) and might also suit you.

If other recommendations come to mind, I'll let you know.


----------



## cocolinho

Ty hp400s for a warm earbuds under usd100.


----------



## doggiemom

Received the Qian69 today.  Similar to the 39s, which are one of my budget favorites.  They have a fun V-shaped sound,  but the bass is a bit rumble-ish/sloppy (running from an iPhone 6S through CEntrance's DACportable).  On the plus side, they are incredibly light weight and comfortable, and ~$10!


----------



## Zerousen

I just want to say, I finally received my Svara L's after two different sellers on AliExpress cancelled on me weeks after ordering, and I ordered from another store, and I am very happy with them so far! Currently drive them with my LG V20.


----------



## DBaldock9

Zerousen said:


> I just want to say, I finally received my Svara L's after two different sellers on AliExpress cancelled on me weeks after ordering, and I ordered from another store, and I am very happy with them so far! Currently drive them with my LG V20.



Did you receive the _new_ 32Ω version?  
Have you ever heard the original 115Ω version?


----------



## Zerousen (Sep 12, 2017)

DBaldock9 said:


> Did you receive the _new_ 32Ω version?
> Have you ever heard the original 115Ω version?


I was not aware that there was a 32Ω version, I believe mine are the 115Ω version since activating the hifi dac mode on my V20 increases the volume and range significantly. Personally I would prefer the 32Ω version, since I use these with various devices and I don't have a dedicated amp... Now I'm tempted to trade for a 32Ω version or just buy another pair outright lol.

EDIT: Actually, the store I purchased them from has them listed as 64Ω, with double dynamic drivers (maybe a translation issue? 32Ω version says that it's a single dynamic driver.)


----------



## B9Scrambler

My take on the outstanding Rose Mojito;

https://head-fi.org/showcase/rose-mojito.21655/reviews#review-19163​

  ​


----------



## Saoshyant

B9Scrambler said:


> My take on the outstanding Rose Mojito;
> 
> https://head-fi.org/showcase/rose-mojito.21655/reviews#review-19163​
> ​



They certainly stepped up the accessories & cable for this version of the Mojito.  I might want to order the cable at some point, as I'm not a huge fan of the shorter length of the original's cable.


----------



## xavierng1

where you guys get the rose mojito from?


----------



## B9Scrambler

Saoshyant said:


> They certainly stepped up the accessories & cable for this version of the Mojito.  I might want to order the cable at some point, as I'm not a huge fan of the shorter length of the original's cable.



The length of the current cable is excellent at around 49-50". Quite long. The cable in this review isn't the same as the one that was included when it was first sent to me, lol. That on the right below was poorly received by buyers so they swapped it out. Smart decision.

 ​Even though the swapped out cable on the right has a lot of negative qualities (stiff, fair bit of memory, sloppy fit and finish, butt-ugly, etc.) I quite like it. Felt bulletproof. I mostly use it with the Masya now.


----------



## B9Scrambler

xavierng1 said:


> where you guys get the rose mojito from?



Mine was sent over by Penon Audio but you can get them in the usual places too; AliExpress, Ebay, etc.


----------



## xavierng1

B9Scrambler said:


> Mine was sent over by Penon Audio but you can get them in the usual places too; AliExpress, Ebay, etc.



Thanks B9Scrambler! I was talking to the seller from Penon Audio on aliexpress, he mentioned the rose mojito only come with 1 compressive Earphone Case, 2 pairs of foam eartips but your review pictures seem to have more.


----------



## B9Scrambler

xavierng1 said:


> Thanks B9Scrambler! I was talking to the seller from Penon Audio on aliexpress, he mentioned the rose mojito only come with 1 compressive Earphone Case, 2 pairs of foam eartips but your review pictures seem to have more.



Hmm.....I'll have to chat with them to find out what's up.


----------



## xavierng1

B9Scrambler said:


> Hmm.....I'll have to chat with them to find out what's up.



Thanks again, B9Scrambler  let me know soon


----------



## DBaldock9

Zerousen said:


> I was not aware that there was a 32Ω version, I believe mine are the 115Ω version since activating the hifi dac mode on my V20 increases the volume and range significantly. Personally I would prefer the 32Ω version, since I use these with various devices and I don't have a dedicated amp... Now I'm tempted to trade for a 32Ω version or just buy another pair outright lol.
> 
> EDIT: Actually, the store I purchased them from has them listed as 64Ω, with double dynamic drivers (maybe a translation issue? 32Ω version says that it's a single dynamic driver.)



Back in April, when the Svara-L was first available on AliExpress, one of the guys involved with AK Audio Store, made a discount offer on the _Earbuds Anonymous_ Facebook group.
I placed an order then, and it took quite a while before the earbuds were delivered (I think they either had supplier issues, or they were in the midst of making the driver design change).
When mine finally arrived, I was really impressed with the sound - and it was at about that time that someone on this Forum was asking what impedance the earbud was supposed to be, since several vendor had different listings.
I measured mine, and they were 115Ω, as were several others - but some had the newer, lower impedance models.


----------



## B9Scrambler (Sep 12, 2017)

xavierng1 said:


> Thanks again, B9Scrambler  let me know soon



I should have an answer for you tomorrow. My contact over at Penon (Chi) is going to look into this for us. I was looking for other reviews but none of them show the packaging and accessory kit. Snooping through the Mojito thread and Google images it looks like this ear bud and it's packaging has evolved quite a bit since it was first released anyway, so not sure how relevant older reviews would be in terms of the accessory kit.


----------



## xavierng1

B9Scrambler said:


> I should have an answer for you tomorrow. My contact over at Penon (Chi) is going to look into this for us. I was looking for other reviews but none of them show the packaging and accessory kit. Snooping through the Mojito thread and Google images it looks like this ear bud and it's packaging has evolved quite a bit since it was first released anyway, so not sure how relevant older reviews would be in terms of the accessory kit.



i see, don't worry! I do appreciate your help and making the time to ask on my behalf. I hope you enjoy your rose mojito!


----------



## Zerousen

DBaldock9 said:


> Back in April, when the Svara-L was first available on AliExpress, one of the guys involved with AK Audio Store, made a discount offer on the _Earbuds Anonymous_ Facebook group.
> I placed an order then, and it took quite a while before the earbuds were delivered (I think they either had supplier issues, or they were in the midst of making the driver design change).
> When mine finally arrived, I was really impressed with the sound - and it was at about that time that someone on this Forum was asking what impedance the earbud was supposed to be, since several vendor had different listings.
> I measured mine, and they were 115Ω, as were several others - but some had the newer, lower impedance models.


Hmm, I see. I may order another pair just to see if there is much of a difference. It seems that the logo has gone from Svara L, to ESCASE, and now the newer model is back to having the Svara L logo. I will try contacting a few stores for further information as well.


----------



## fairx

After much delay I finally pull on eb200. Always intrigued by someone comment on AliExpress mentioning eb200 as blox breed. Also make me wonder why only nicehck have them. And it seems the only earbud with 200ohm impedance? any other 200 ohm  earbud out there ?


----------



## golov17

fairx said:


> After much delay I finally pull on eb200. Always intrigued by someone comment on AliExpress mentioning eb200 as blox breed. Also make me wonder why only nicehck have them. And it seems the only earbud with 200ohm impedance? any other 200 ohm  earbud out there ?



 
New Arrival SMALL FIVE DIY PK1 High Impedance In-ear Earphone Flat Head HiFi Bass Earbuds Heavy Bass Sound HIFI Fever earpiece
http://s.aliexpress.com/rai6z26B 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## RuFrost

Have anybody tried seahf AWK-F400S Pro or Seahf AWK-F400S (clear case)? What is the difference between them? Can you comment on its sound and whether it is difficult to drive them with usual dap like Fiio X7 or amp like Alo Rx?
https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/New-...id=c717864d-6d2c-4f8f-bfc0-2549c18d5dad&tpp=1
https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/New-...id=ecb87e7e-501f-4b1a-a9eb-c6ff9235e54a&tpp=1


----------



## HungryPanda

I just got the Rose Masya wooden variation and it came in same box, 2 cables one black rubber the other the awesome silver one and all the accessories


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> I just got the Rose Masya wooden variation and it came in same box, 2 cables one black rubber the other the awesome silver one and all the accessories


Impressions when you get a chance


----------



## Stevenpi1992 (Sep 12, 2017)

Just got the DIY Graphenes in. Here's some first impressions paired with my V20 w/ high impedance adapter and Tidal HiFi. I'm not super good at explaining these kind of things, but I'll do my best.

Packaging/Accessories/Build:

Mine came in a small, black carrying case with a bunch of spare foams. The build is what I would expect for ~$30. Not spectacular, but not as cheap feeling as the Fiio EM3 for example.

Fit:

More comfortable than the Monk+. These do need foams (imo) in order to achieve a good seal. They sound super tinny/hollow without them. I've been listening to them for an hour or so and feel no fatigue or discomfort yet.

Sound:

Bass is tight and retains a good amount of detail. Not muddy at all imo. It doesn't have a lot of impact or thump or anything, but it's great for my preference in music.

Mids are very forward, detailed, clear, and full. Vocals are amazing. Not artificial in any way. No complaints from me.

Treble is bright and detailed without being fatiguing at all. There sounds like a slight roll off in the higher frequencies but nothing that I particularly care to complain about.

Soundstage is pretty typical for an earbud imo. Good amount of width, not a lot of depth though. Imaging is very good as well..

Overall, first impressions are very good. I'm looking forward to how these will sound with some burn in time. If this is what $30 earbuds sound like, I'm almost wondering if it's worth it to ever upgrade.

If anyone is curious, here's the songs I listened to for this:

Slowdive - Sugar for the Pill
Radiohead - Burn the Witch
Red Hot Chili Peppers - Snow
Rage Against the Machine - Know Your Enemy
Nirvana - Lounge Act
Adele - All I Ask
Alicia Keys - A Woman's Worth (Live, Unplugged)
Nobuo Uematsu - Aerith's Theme (Orchestral version)
John Williams - Duel of Fates (London Symphony Orchestra)
Ravel - Pavane pour une Infante Defunte

Edited for clarification**


----------



## Dark Helmet

Stevenpi1992 said:


> Just got the DIY Graphenes in. Here's some first impressions paired with my V20 w/ high impedance adapter and Tidal HiFi. I'm not super good at explaining these kind of things, but I'll do my best.
> 
> Packaging/Accessories/Build:
> 
> ...


Bass Texture and sub bass will improve.


----------



## waynes world (Sep 12, 2017)

Stevenpi1992 said:


> Just got the DIY Graphenes in. Here's some first impressions paired with my V20 w/ high impedance adapter and Tidal HiFi. I'm not super good at explaining these kind of things, but I'll do my best.
> 
> Packaging/Accessories/Build:
> 
> ...



Thanks for the impressions. I hope to see my graphenes in a few days 

As far as "wondering if it's worth it to ever upgrade", I know what you are saying. I said the same thing after I got my KSC75's and Sportapro's 5 years ago. Sadly, saying it didn't stop me from "upgrading" _plenty_ of times. The funny thing is that I still listen to the ksc75's and/or sportapro's every day and am completely satisfied with them. So what does that tell ya? It tells ya "run away from this website while you think you're happy" lol!

Actually I'm kidding. Stick around this thread at least. I can't believe how good some of the $5-$10 earbuds are that I have discovered here (and the "absolute best budget earbuds" thread). For example, if you don't have the EMX500's, do yourself a favour and try a "downgrade" to them - they are amazing. At the very least, they will provide a cool alternative signature to the graphene's. And they cost $10 lol.

Anyway, looking forward to the graphenes, and looking forward to their bass coming out after some burn in!


----------



## Stevenpi1992

waynes world said:


> Thanks for the impressions. I hope to see my graphenes in a few days
> 
> As far as "wondering if it's worth it to ever upgrade", I know what you are saying. I said the same thing after I got my KSC75's and Sportapro's 5 years ago. Sadly, saying it didn't stop me from "upgrading" _plenty_ of times. The funny thing is that I still listen to the ksc75's and/or sportapro's every day and am completely satisfied with them. So what does that tell ya? It tells ya "run away from this website while you think you're happy" lol!
> 
> ...



The EMX500s are in my AE cart as well. I've been holding off on ordering them since I just got the EM3's and Graphenes so close together, but I guess if it takes 2 weeks to ship I might as well


----------



## Stevenpi1992

Dark Helmet said:


> Bass Texture and sub bass will improve.



Good to know, thanks! Even if they didn't, these sound amazing so far for $30. I haven't taken them off since I did my first impressions


----------



## waynes world (Sep 12, 2017)

Stevenpi1992 said:


> The EMX500s are in my AE cart as well. I've been holding off on ordering them since I just got the EM3's and Graphenes so close together, *but I guess if it takes 2 weeks to ship I might as well*



And so it begins...


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> So what does that tell ya? It tells ya "run away from this website while you think you're happy" lol!



I should have!  Running out of places to put things.


----------



## chellity

Stevenpi1992 said:


> Just got the DIY Graphenes in. Here's some first impressions paired with my V20 w/ high impedance adapter and Tidal HiFi. I'm not super good at explaining these kind of things, but I'll do my best.
> 
> Packaging/Accessories/Build:
> 
> ...



You may want to try it without high impedance mode, as these buds are only 20 ohm.  Oddly enough, they do sound better with high gain on my cayin n3, so im guessing they need some mW to really be at their best.  I like these with full foams for more bass too.  Burn in did bring out bass texture, but some mild equalizer is really needed to bring out the best bass in earbuds  glad you are enjoying them!


----------



## w45inus

I use akg y20u. Pretty cheap and sounds good.


----------



## theoutsider

waynes world said:


> So what does that tell ya? It tells ya "run away from this website while you think you're happy" lol!





mbwilson111 said:


> I should have!  Running out of places to put things.



read a book on stoicism instead of visiting this thread


----------



## Stevenpi1992

chellity said:


> You may want to try it without high impedance mode, as these buds are only 20 ohm.  Oddly enough, they do sound better with high gain on my cayin n3, so im guessing they need some mW to really be at their best.  I like these with full foams for more bass too.  Burn in did bring out bass texture, but some mild equalizer is really needed to bring out the best bass in earbuds  glad you are enjoying them!



Yeah I tried it with and without the adapter and honestly, the difference isn't significant for casual listening imo. The V20s quad DAC is super nice to have so I just like to activate it whenever possible. I wish there was a built in option to turn it on and off without rooting. I've had music playing for the past 6 hours ish so I'll probably leave them overnight and check them out tmr at work. Amazing how good these things are for $30.


----------



## Hifisnubben

fairx said:


> After much delay I finally pull on eb200. Always intrigued by someone comment on AliExpress mentioning eb200 as blox breed. Also make me wonder why only nicehck have them. And it seems the only earbud with 200ohm impedance? any other 200 ohm  earbud out there ?



Not that strange considering its nicehck branded. Nice buy btw. I find them most enjoyable and the price aint bad either.


----------



## fairx

Hifisnubben said:


> Not that strange considering its nicehck branded. Nice buy btw. I find them most enjoyable and the price aint bad either.


yeah we've seen lots of 32 64 150 and 300 variant but not much 200. Just wondering why nicehck got that almost exclusively. Anybody opened up their eb200 yet ?


----------



## golov17

fairx said:


> yeah we've seen lots of 32 64 150 and 300 variant but not much 200. Just wondering why nicehck got that almost exclusively. Anybody opened up their eb200 yet ?


----------



## xavierng1 (Sep 13, 2017)

del


----------



## fairx

golov17 said:


>


You're the man Mr Golov


----------



## golov17 (Sep 13, 2017)

fairx said:


> You're the man Mr Golov


you're welcome 
KC08 inside


----------



## Qualcheduno (Sep 13, 2017)

After some weeks of use, here are my impressions of the Toneking TP16, which are my first pair of proper earbuds.
The housings feel fairly sturdy, and the silver cable is nice, smooth and doesn't tangle.
I've been using them with the stock full foams, because I like some warmness.
But these aren't dark or bassy earbuds by any means: I only have the Tennmak Pro to compare them to, but if one would describe the Pro's sound signature as "caramel", I would describe the TP16's (with foams) one as "water with a teaspoon of sugar".


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Thanks for the impressions. I hope to see my graphenes in a few days
> 
> As far as "wondering if it's worth it to ever upgrade", I know what you are saying. I said the same thing after I got my KSC75's and Sportapro's 5 years ago. Sadly, saying it didn't stop me from "upgrading" _plenty_ of times. The funny thing is that I still listen to the ksc75's and/or sportapro's every day and am completely satisfied with them. So what does that tell ya? It tells ya "run away from this website while you think you're happy" lol!



it's like reading my own life story 
i also said to myself to stop after buying the KSC75, but here i am, still scouring new info and purchasing left and right


----------



## seanc6441

Anyone here want to compare the soundstage of EMX500, DIY Graphene and DIY PK2?

I'm only recently into this hobby but soundstage has stuck around as something very important to me. I love when an earbud can blur the line between earphones and headphones


----------



## golov17

69>25+39 agreed


----------



## B9Scrambler

xavierng1 said:


> i see, don't worry! I do appreciate your help and making the time to ask on my behalf. I hope you enjoy your rose mojito!



Okay. So, Penon clarified everything and updated their site. The full accessory kit is now;

 

You may also notice the butt-ugly cable is shown there. Either Penon was misinformed and/or Rose changed their mind, but that cable is once again the standard and the sexy braided cable shown in the review has been relegated to upgrade duty, purchased separately. Annoying and disappointing, but oh well. Review has been updated to reflect this. Overall score remains the same since pretty much all my thoughts remain unchanged.


----------



## xavierng1

B9Scrambler said:


> Okay. So, Penon clarified everything and updated their site. The full accessory kit is now;
> 
> 
> 
> You may also notice the butt-ugly cable is shown there. Either Penon was misinformed and/or Rose changed their mind, but that cable is once again the standard and the sexy braided cable shown in the review has been relegated to upgrade duty, purchased separately. Annoying and disappointing, but oh well. Review has been updated to reflect this. Overall score remains the same since pretty much all my thoughts remain unchanged.



I appreciate your honest review, really enjoyed reading it. Penon clarified with me too and finally i got mine! Excited to get my hands on them


----------



## Narayan23 (Sep 13, 2017)

I was on the fence about buying the Graphenes and Qian 69 but finally those evil temptresses...I mean stand up brothers  Bloody Penguin, Golov, Hungry Panda, Dark Helmet etc managed to make me draw my credit card faster than Wild Bill Hickok drew his gun.

"The only way to get rid of temptation is to yield to it. Resist it and your soul grows sick with longing for the earbuds it has forbidden to itself, with desire for what its monstrous laws have made monstrous and unlawful"

Oscar Bloody Penguin Wilde, The Picture of Golov Gray.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Djen said:


> Rose Masya any reviews? Looks hard on the ears.



There you go 

https://head-fi.org/showcase/rose-masya.22316/reviews


----------



## Dark Helmet

Stevenpi1992 said:


> Good to know, thanks! Even if they didn't, these sound amazing so far for $30. I haven't taken them off since I did my first impressions


Out of the 18 or so I own they are the best and it's not close.


----------



## snip3r77

Narayan23 said:


> I was on the fence about buying the Graphenes and Qian 69 but finally those evil temptresses...I mean stand up brothers  Bloody Penguin, Golov, Hungry Panda, Dark Helmet etc managed to make me draw my credit card faster than Wild Bill Hickok drew his gun.
> 
> "The only way to get rid of temptation is to yield to it. Resist it and your soul grows sick with longing for the earbuds it has forbidden to itself, with desire for what its monstrous laws have made monstrous and unlawful"
> 
> Oscar Bloody Penguin Wilde, The Picture of Golov Gray.


They psycho you to get BOTH?


----------



## waynes world

golov17 said:


> 69>25+39 agreed



Thanks! I was going to ask someone if it's worth getting the 69's if I already have and love the 39's, so now I'm getting really tempted. Also curious about those eb200's.

On a side note, I was browsing around the aliexpress NICECHK store. Dangerous place - just like this thread!


----------



## Narayan23

snip3r77 said:


> They psycho you to get BOTH?



Yeah those psychos made me get both, at least that´s what I´ll tell my family to justify another purchase


----------



## acap13

Hello fellow earbuders,

Have anyone compared Willsound 32 MK1/MK2 to ABnormal diomnes or dietris yet? Any earbuds comparison aside from the ABnormal ones will be appreciated too..I tried to find about Willsound earbud before but not to many as i would like to have...Thank you in advance!


----------



## golov17

my mk2 in Moscow already ... after few days i will try it vs mk1.. i hope


----------



## acap13

Thank you, Sir!  Looking forward to your impression soon.


----------



## chinmie

Dark Helmet said:


> Out of the 18 or so I own they are the best and it's not close.



i see you also have masya in your collection. do you rate the graphene better than the masya?


----------



## Stevenpi1992

chinmie said:


> i see you also have masya in your collection. do you rate the graphene better than the masya?



+1. I was considering buying the Masya down the road so I would like to know as well please.


----------



## Dark Helmet

chinmie said:


> i see you also have masya in your collection. do you rate the graphene better than the masya?


Yes.  Masya is nice, but I also get better fit with the Graphne.


----------



## rahmish

golov17 said:


> my mk2 in Moscow already ... after few days i will try it vs mk1.. i hope


My mk1 just arrived...


----------



## acap13

Great!
Care to provide first impression?


----------



## Moonstar (Sep 14, 2017)

My latest review for the K'S 300 Samsara Version is now online. Waiting for your likes 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ks-300-samsara-version.22649/


----------



## krunchcrispy

Reading through this thread, I notice some lovers of Classical music, like myself.  Anyone want to chime in on their favorite earbud for Classical -- especially symphonies?
Currently, I am enjoying the RX1 -- albeit eq'ed in the upper mids for my taste -- I am enjoying the taut, textured bass, the soundscape, and the sweetness of the treble that I hear from the RX1 (with thin VE foams).
Anyone else have a favorite earbud for symphonies?


----------



## golov17

krunchcrispy said:


> Reading through this thread, I notice some lovers of Classical music, like myself.  Anyone want to chime in on their favorite earbud for Classical -- especially symphonies?
> Currently, I am enjoying the RX1 -- albeit eq'ed in the upper mids for my taste -- I am enjoying the taut, textured bass, the soundscape, and the sweetness of the treble that I hear from the RX1 (with thin VE foams).
> Anyone else have a favorite earbud for symphonies?


Mojito, ATH CM700Ti, Graphene DIY


----------



## kfarndog

krunchcrispy said:


> Reading through this thread, I notice some lovers of Classical music, like myself.  Anyone want to chime in on their favorite earbud for Classical -- especially symphonies?
> Currently, I am enjoying the RX1 -- albeit eq'ed in the upper mids for my taste -- I am enjoying the taut, textured bass, the soundscape, and the sweetness of the treble that I hear from the RX1 (with thin VE foams).
> Anyone else have a favorite earbud for symphonies?



Both the Rose Masya and Mojito are very solid for classical (actually any acoustic) music.  I also really like the Musicmaker Tomahawk for classical, but that is a love it or leave it earbud it seems.


----------



## krunchcrispy

Thanks; which brings up a point -- I havent seen anyone compare the DIY graphene to the RX1.  Is the DIY graphene superior?


----------



## rahmish

acap13 said:


> Great!
> Care to provide first impression?


A bit later, need to burn-in a bit first


----------



## silverfishla

krunchcrispy said:


> Reading through this thread, I notice some lovers of Classical music, like myself.  Anyone want to chime in on their favorite earbud for Classical -- especially symphonies?
> Currently, I am enjoying the RX1 -- albeit eq'ed in the upper mids for my taste -- I am enjoying the taut, textured bass, the soundscape, and the sweetness of the treble that I hear from the RX1 (with thin VE foams).
> Anyone else have a favorite earbud for symphonies?


Rose Mojito is the best in my collection for Classical.  It just sounds right, but not just right, but big.  So when the music swells up and the full orchestra reaches a high point, it's huge.


----------



## wskl

krunchcrispy said:


> Reading through this thread, I notice some lovers of Classical music, like myself.  Anyone want to chime in on their favorite earbud for Classical -- especially symphonies?
> Currently, I am enjoying the RX1 -- albeit eq'ed in the upper mids for my taste -- I am enjoying the taut, textured bass, the soundscape, and the sweetness of the treble that I hear from the RX1 (with thin VE foams).
> Anyone else have a favorite earbud for symphonies?



For a low budget recommendation, the **** PT15 works for me.


----------



## krunchcrispy

hey wskl, what about the PT15 that works for you?


----------



## danimoca

Have been really REALLY happy with the EMX500's for some weeks now.

However, Ali is calling me again to buy some more earbuds 

What would be an earbud with somewhat warmer mids and highs than the EMX500's?


----------



## vladstef (Sep 15, 2017)

I've been in disbelief regarding budget earbuds and how good they are for quite some time now. At this point, I prefer Fengru EMX500 to Meze 99 Classics (it's a weird comparison, but still, well regarded 300$ over-ear vs 10$ earbud)... No idea how this is possible but yeah, I have no reason to lie as Meze 99 were my go to headphones.
How in the world does a TOTL earbud sound then... oh the confusion is real with these small garbage looking wonders.


----------



## danimoca (Sep 15, 2017)

vladstef said:


> I've been in disbelief regarding budget earbuds and how good they are for quite some time now. At this point, I prefer Fengru EMX500 to Meze 99 Classics (it's a weird comparison, but still, well regarded 300$ over-ear vs 10$ earbud)... No idea how this is possible but yeah, I have no reason to lie as Meze 99 were my go to headphones.
> How in the world does a TOTL earbud sound then... oh the confusion is real with these small garbage looking wonders.



That's no surprise for me. I prefer (by a long margin) the EMX500's to my previous main headphone's, the Sennheiser HD598's.


----------



## Saoshyant

@vladstef Honestly, the EMX500 very well could taint most people's perspective of earbuds as it's kind of an unfair metric.  There's only a couple of earbuds that can come close in value, and that's solely due to preferences.  I've only heard a couple of TOTL, and like most top ends, it's all about finding the one that suits you.


----------



## vladstef

danimoca said:


> That's no surprise for me. I prefer (by a long margin) the EMX500's to my previous main headphone's, the Sennheiser HD598's.





Saoshyant said:


> @vladstef Honestly, the EMX500 very well could taint most people's perspective of earbuds as it's kind of an unfair metric.  There's only a couple of earbuds that can come close in value, and that's solely due to preferences.  I've only heard a couple of TOTL, and like most top ends, it's all about finding the one that suits you.



Thank you!! I thought something was very wrong with me. I legit though that I was either crazy or hearing impaired and was questioning my idea of what a good sound is. Earbuds are really underrated. I blame cheap mp3 players and mobile phones of 2000s with their trash-buds.


----------



## waynes world

Yup, you guys all speak the truth about the EMX500's. I love my Monk+'s, Qian39's and Vido's, but the EMX500's have an energy and dynamism that is pretty amazing for a $10 _anything_.


----------



## snip3r77

waynes world said:


> Yup, you guys all speak the truth about the EMX500's. I love my Monk+'s, Qian39's and Vido's, but the EMX500's have an energy and dynamism that is pretty amazing for a $10 _anything_.



Thinking about Graphene or EMX500 or Qian 69. Coming from the Vido.
Which one should I try? Looking for a more treble and bass improvement ( correct/punchier not bloaty ).


----------



## wskl

krunchcrispy said:


> hey wskl, what about the PT15 that works for you?



If there is one word I would use to describe the PT15, it would be 'clean'.  They have great clarity, the music is presented in a clear manner.

Bass is neutral, tight sounding and controlled, no bloat.  There is just enough low-end for the percussion at the end of the last movement of Shostakovich Symphony 5.  According to other people, they do respond well to EQ should you need more.

Mids are articulate sounding, instruments have good timbre, instruments sound natural to me.  Very detailed too, listening to a solo violin, the notes being played are very distinct.  Background noises such as people shuffling in their seats, musicians breathing can be heard.

Treble is crisp, but not too bright to my ears. For example, the clanging of bells sounds just right to me, it is not dulled down or piercing.

Soundstage has good width and decent depth, if there is one criticism, it is a little forward sounding for my taste but after listening for 1-2 weeks my ears have got used to it now, if it was more laid back then it would be ideal. 

Instrument separation is very good.  Listening to Carmina Burana, the chorus sections, instead of a single harmony I can actually make out a couple of the individual singers in the chorus.  They really excel with chamber music but no slouch with symphonies, listening to Mahler 2, 4, 5, 6 & 9, I feel that the PT15 can handle it well, at least nothing sounds muffled or congested.

Keeping things in perspective, this is a budget earbud and I do not have any experience with high-end, and you may have different expectations than me, but for the money I think they are simply fantastic.  I have the DIY Graphene and Moondrop Nameless on my wishlist for a potential upgrade in the future, but I would have no problem sticking with the PT15 for the time being.

Note: Using Xduoo X3 as my source.


----------



## krunchcrispy

Thanks for the detailed reply! I am also thinkimg about nameless and graphene, but I do like the RX1 for similar reasons you like the PT15.  Would love to see a comparasion of the RX1 and graphene, or nameless.


----------



## snip3r77

Saoshyant said:


> @vladstef Honestly, the EMX500 very well could taint most people's perspective of earbuds as it's kind of an unfair metric.  There's only a couple of earbuds that can come close in value, and that's solely due to preferences.  I've only heard a couple of TOTL, and like most top ends, it's all about finding the one that suits you.


What value earbuds that are close to ToTLs


----------



## golov17

acap13 said:


> Hello fellow earbuders,
> 
> Have anyone compared Willsound 32 MK1/MK2 to ABnormal diomnes or dietris yet? Any earbuds comparison aside from the ABnormal ones will be appreciated too..I tried to find about Willsound earbud before but not to many as i would like to have...Thank you in advance!


out of the box, WillSound 32 mk2 awesome, clearer, more detailes, good bass, i like it


----------



## acap13 (Sep 16, 2017)

Wow congratz!..colour me impressed
How does it compares with the Mk1 interms of detail,vocal and bass?

Btw, is your Mk2 early impression based on comparison with the diomnes/dietris or to mk1?


----------



## golov17

acap13 said:


> Wow congratz!..colour me impressed
> How does it compares with the Mk1 interms of detail,vocal and bass?
> 
> Btw, is your Mk2 early impression based on comparison with the diomnes/dietris or to mk1?


without comparisons, just a brief audition .. too many buds for two ears, lol. In addition, I'm still listening to a new toy (I've been searching for a long time)


----------



## acap13

golov17 said:


> without comparisons, just a brief audition .. too many buds for two ears, lol. In addition, I'm still listening to a new toy (I've been searching for a long time)



Yeah, too many new toys I suppose. Let it sit for awhile and enjoy the them.


----------



## rendyG

Hello guys, can you recommend me me some good earbud under $20? I don't have much experience with earbuds, only monk+ and few cheap oems.. I would like something with more linear bass compared to monk, where I don't like the mid bass hump. Also when listening to some busier tracks, monk can't keep up and I find it shouty. Something with more forward mid sand big soundstage would be great 
So far I've found RX-1 and emx500 to be popular, what do you think?
Thanks in advance


----------



## activatorfly

Radek Jandl said:


> Hello guys, can you recommend me me some good earbud under $20? I don't have much experience with earbuds, only monk+ and few cheap oems.. I would like something with more linear bass compared to monk, where I don't like the mid bass hump. Also when listening to some busier tracks, monk can't keep up and I find it shouty. Something with more forward mid sand big soundstage would be great
> So far I've found RX-1 and emx500 to be popular, what do you think?
> Thanks in advance


DIY Graphene are worth an extra $10...


----------



## seanc6441

activatorfly said:


> DIY Graphene are worth an extra $10...


How does that bud stack up to Rose Masya? Is it worth buying it when I have the Masya on order or is it not in the same league?


----------



## HungryPanda

In a word "no"


----------



## Saoshyant (Sep 16, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> What value earbuds that are close to ToTLs



That one's a bit of a hard question to answer.  At least one member here says the Vido is pretty close to the CampFred.  I personally don't hear it, but it's also a wonderful budget earbud.  EMX500 offers as great a sound for it's price as many people say, but I personally feel the two CampFred models offer quite a bit more in quality of sound.  For vocal-oriented listeners, the RX-1 gets you quite a bit of the way to the Cygnus if you're willing to sacrifice some bass.  I cannot comment on Graphene as I'm trying to slow down my spending due to probably being at 80+ earbuds at this point, and my focus is more in trying to find a complimentary headphone to what I own right now.  If you consider the Zens TOTL, the Zen 1's most approached in the budget range by the Vido, where the Zen 2 is more balanced like the EMX500 vs Vido.

Those I mentioned are IMO three amazing budget performers, and RX-1 plus either EMX500 or Vido will cover most of what earbuds are capable of.



seanc6441 said:


> How does that bud stack up to Rose Masya? Is it worth buying it when I have the Masya on order or is it not in the same league?



For a little bit, basically until I discovered the CampFreds, the Masya was my favorite earbud.  It suited my tastes better than the Mojito which is phenomenal in it's own right, but I also use the bassier (at least I've been told this is the case) carbon fiber version.


----------



## seanc6441

Saoshyant said:


> That one's a bit of a hard question to answer.  At least one member here says the Vido is pretty close to the CampFred.  I personally don't hear it, but it's also a wonderful budget earbud.  EMX500 offers as great a sound for it's price as many people say, but I personally feel the two CampFred models offer quite a bit more in quality of sound.  For vocal-oriented listeners, the RX-1 gets you quite a bit of the way to the Cygnus if you're willing to sacrifice some bass.  I cannot comment on Graphene as I'm trying to slow down my spending due to probably being at 80+ earbuds at this point, and my focus is more in trying to find a complimentary headphone to what I own right now.  If you consider the Zens TOTL, the Zen 1's most approached in the budget range by the Vido, where the Zen 2 is more balanced like the EMX500 vs Vido.
> 
> Those I mentioned are IMO three amazing budget performers, and RX-1 plus either EMX500 or Vido will cover most of what earbuds are capable of.
> 
> ...


Cool thanks. The Masya will probably be awesome for me coming from budget earbuds, I just hear so much talk about the graphene lately that i'm wonder what level of sound you get. I may need to buy it anyway to find out lol.


----------



## HungryPanda

@seanc6441 you know you want to, this is head-fi after all


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> @seanc6441 you know you want to, this is head-fi after all



There's definitely worse ways to spend €30... Will be what I tell myself to justify my addiction


----------



## HungryPanda

I gave up long ago


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> How does that bud stack up to Rose Masya? Is it worth buying it when I have the Masya on order or is it not in the same league?


Not advisable to try to compare TOTL buds with budget (<£30) ....i'm listening to/enjoying Graphene currently - being engaged in their sound signature as much as the Masya. They compliment each other perfectly...both excel & are completely non-fatiguing. The difference is the Masya due to it's superb imaging, wider and deeper sound-stage, manages to recreate the live feel of a venue - my first truly holographic experience with buds!


----------



## seanc6441

activatorfly said:


> Not advisable to try to compare TOTL buds with budget (<£30) ....i'm listening to/enjoying Graphene currently - being engaged in their sound signature as much as the Masya. They compliment each other perfectly...both excel & are completely non-fatiguing. The difference is the Masya due to it's superb imaging, wider and deeper sound-stage, manages to recreate the live feel of a venue - my first truly holographic experience with buds!


Ok thanks that puts the bud into perspective, I'd be hesitant to bring the Rose Masya out and about in fear of it getting lost, stolen or damaged somehow.

That's where the EMX500, Vido or maybe the graphene would come in handy if I purchase.


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> Ok thanks that puts the bud into perspective, I'd be hesitant to bring the Rose Masya out and about in fear of it getting lost, stolen or damaged somehow.
> 
> That's where the EMX500, Vido or maybe the graphene would come in handy if I purchase.


Exactly - Graphene are the ideal second pair....without compromising the quality of TOTL (- even held off buying them during the AE sale.) Pulled the trigger last week....Arrived yesterday - they do live up to the hype definitely imho! - you can tell the quality of better buds by listening to them at max volume for any distortion (- compared to cheaper PK2 buds which distort & rattle like crazy! lol)


----------



## carlosgab

Just like what happened to a few of the guys here, my emx500 has started this cracking sound on the left side. Not to mention that I did not use it often since I have several other iems and earbuds. I wonder if its just incidental or if its because of poor quality.


----------



## activatorfly

carlosgab said:


> Just like what happened to a few of the guys here, my emx500 has started this cracking sound on the left side. Not to mention that I did not use it often since I have several other iems and earbuds. I wonder if its just incidental or if its because of poor quality.


I had the same issue with PK2's at a certain volume (also on the left hand side.) ...never used my emx500  - they're first on my list of phones/buds to sell!


----------



## hung031086

Looking for a earbud with relax sounding, good bass, not too much treble to replace my zen2. Cable is broken after a few months. I only use earbuds when i go to sleep. Any recommendations ?


----------



## HungryPanda

They could be re cabled


----------



## hung031086

hung031086 said:


> They could be re cabled


Send back to them or somewhere else can do that ?


----------



## nick n

The wire itself is most likely enamel coated so will be fine and will not oxidize if so, unless you don't like looking at that, or it starts to bow out of that spot in the cable badly.

You could always get some clear silicone as a patch for now and smear it into that spot with your finger ( using a glove of course ).
Then worry about recable later if that doesn't hold up.


----------



## nick n

^unless there is some sort of warranty period for those. I don't know what that might be.


----------



## HungryPanda

I would re cable if it was mine but I love to tinker with electronics


----------



## golov17

hung031086 said:


> Send back to them or somewhere else can do that ?


1 y warranty


----------



## hung031086

I contacted lee and waiting for his reply.


----------



## golov17

hung031086 said:


> I contacted lee and waiting for his reply.


not sure if this is a warranty damage, though ....


----------



## hung031086

I don't know. I didn't do that. The another side is about like that too. The cable itself is really bad. For me the monk+ cable is better than this. It's not worth $145 for it.


----------



## Frederick Wang

snip3r77 said:


> What value earbuds that are close to ToTLs


To me the answer would be Docomo earbud


----------



## golov17 (Sep 17, 2017)

hung031086 said:


> I don't know. I didn't do that. The another side is about like that too. The cable itself is really bad. For me the monk+ cable is better than this. It's not worth $145 for it.


Hmm.. my pair without problems yet

in contrast to .. lol


----------



## snip3r77

Frederick Wang said:


> To me the answer would be Docomo earbud


How do you get em ? Thanks


----------



## rendyG

activatorfly said:


> DIY Graphene are worth an extra $10...


Can you describe what Graphene does better in comparison to for example emx500? Also I believe you are reffering to the version from niceHCK, right?


----------



## hung031086

golov17 said:


> Hmm.. my pair without problems yet
> in contrast to .. lol


Well lee said i can ship the zen2 back to exchange to the new one .


----------



## n1kk1 (Sep 17, 2017)

Good day guys!

Impressions on the Puresounds 150ohms?

 Got a local seller here that sells them for around 12usd. I currently have the Monk+, zs5 and the Asura. Source is zishan z2. can a sony xperia z2 power them? How would they compare to the Asura being my main bud? Im so tempted, 12usd for 150ohms. Should I pull the trigger on them? Thanks!


----------



## golov17

hung031086 said:


> Well lee said i can ship the zen2 back to exchange to the new one .


Good deal


----------



## noknok23

hung031086 said:


> Looking for a earbud with relax sounding, good bass, not too much treble to replace my zen2. Cable is broken after a few months. I only use earbuds when i go to sleep. Any recommendations ?


T314P from ty hi Z is made for falling asleep purpose, the sound is very warm with boomy bass and roll off treble, good way to fall asleep to it.
Stick to cheap earphones when falling asleep


----------



## activatorfly

Radek Jandl said:


> Can you describe what Graphene does better in comparison to for example emx500? Also I believe you are reffering to the version from niceHCK, right?


They work well for all genres & have an expansive sound-stage - ideal for electronica - i.e. very "airy!"  - they present a warm sound signature - vocals are superb, handling bass/sub-bass effortlessly, layered with transparent mids & treble - having no shrill or sibilance. Cheaper buds can be a little too! energetic, thus lacking in imaging and refinement - which results in congestion & fatigue!
It's all subjective i guess....in my opinion though - they're one of the few buds that can totally transport you!........(p.s. yes the niceHCK version.)


----------



## activatorfly

n1kk1 said:


> Good day guys!
> 
> Impressions on the Puresounds 150ohms?
> 
> Got a local seller here that sells them for around 12usd. I currently have the Monk+, zs5 and the Asura. Source is zishan z2. can a sony xperia z2 power them? How would they compare to the Asura being my main bud? Im so tempted, 12usd for 150ohms. Should I pull the trigger on them? Thanks!


I received these a few days ago & i do like them -however they can be a bit shrill on first impressions, & i think they probably need a burn in. They have an interesting warm sound which might work better by pairing them with a higher power source - in order to maximise the higher 150 ohm impedance ( - haven't tried yet.)
I'll be re-cabling them later to try out with a balanced output ( - which might help to tame the higher frequencies) & maybe try out further mods with both earbud casings, - extra foam / tape etc...
Imho - they're worth $12 easily!


----------



## rendyG

activatorfly said:


> They work well for all genres & have an expansive sound-stage - ideal for electronica - i.e. very "airy!"  - they present a warm sound signature - vocals are superb, handling bass/sub-bass effortlessly, layered with transparent mids & treble - having no shrill or sibilance. Cheaper buds can be a little too! energetic, thus lacking in imaging and refinement - which results in congestion & fatigue!
> It's all subjective i guess....in my opinion though - they're one of the few buds that can totally transport you!........(p.s. yes the niceHCK version.)


that sounds great, thanks, I think I will look into Graphene later, because now I think I will try some buds around $10 first.. I don't have enough money to try many buds as I'm also currently experimenting with cheap chinese iems 

One guy recommended me Toneking tp16, anyone heard of it?


----------



## krunchcrispy

Can anyone comment on the difference between the moondrop nameless and the diy graphene? I am looking for an airy, expansive bud thats a step above the RX-1 for classical. Golov mentioned graphene for classical, but clieos has mentioned that Nameless was open and airy as well. .? Also the above post mentions graphene was texture and airy, which sounds what i am looking for.


----------



## n1kk1

activatorfly said:


> I received these a few days ago & i do like them -however they can be a bit shrill on first impressions, & i think they probably need a burn in. They have an interesting warm sound which might work better by pairing them with a higher power source - in order to maximise the higher 150 ohm impedance ( - haven't tried yet.)
> I'll be re-cabling them later to try out with a balanced output ( - which might help to tame the higher frequencies) & maybe try out further mods with both earbud casings, - extra foam / tape etc...
> Imho - they're worth $12 easily!



Is this really how it's going to be??!!
I said the Asura would be my last pair of buds because they sound too good. Sorry Mr. Wallet. Lol

Too many buds so few ears


----------



## activatorfly

n1kk1 said:


> Is this really how it's going to be??!!
> I said the Asura would be my last pair of buds because they sound too good. Sorry Mr. Wallet. Lol
> 
> Too many buds so few ears


D'accord! ...i'd also like to try out moondrop nameless & Toneking tp16! - i'm just listening to K's 300 - which sound great with balanced output...having slightly recessed mids but are good to contrast buds with the same housing e.g: TY Hi-Z HP-150s - whose powerful bass, slightly shrill treble & very forward mids become more refined & controlled.....after a substantial burn-in


----------



## theoutsider (Sep 17, 2017)

activatorfly said:


> D'accord! ...i'd also like to try out moondrop nameless & Toneking tp16! - i'm just listening to K's 300 - which sound great with balanced output...having slightly recessed mids but are good to contrast buds with the same housing e.g: TY Hi-Z HP-150s - whose powerful bass, slightly shrill treble & very forward mids become more refined & controlled.....after a substantial burn-in


I have both the moondrop nameless and Toneking Tp16. Both are great earbuds.

I received my toneking tomahawk days ago, on first listen I think it sounds similar to the cheaper tp16. Both tonekings are very engaging to listen to. Nameless is a great addition to my arsenal, they are significantly smaller than the MX500s.


----------



## rendyG

cursing said:


> I have both the moondrop nameless and Toneking Tp16. Both are great earbuds.
> 
> I received my toneking tomahawk days ago, on first listen I think it sounds similar to the cheaper tp16. Both tonekings are very engaging to listen to. Nameless is a great addition to my arsenal, they are significantly smaller than the MX500s.



tp16 vs emx500 please?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 17, 2017)

cursing said:


> Nameless is a great addition to my arsenal, they are significantly smaller than the MX500s.



Happy to hear this.  I have Nameless coming...this week maybe.  I was hoping they would be smaller than my Monk+


----------



## BloodyPenguin

MoonDrop Nameless:

www.aliexpress.com/…/2017-Newest-MoonDrop-…/32830971670.html

I've had the pleasure of listening to these over the last few days. Clear, light and forgiving.

I've never tried any of the other MoonDrop earbuds, so my thoughts are just standalone about the Nameless.

Let me start off by saying that the packaging it is really unique and very attractive. Inside you will find a few extra foam covers and a brown carrying bag. Accessories are kept on the minimal, but overall packaging still makes for a nice unboxing experience.

The Sound Signature is focused on details and not on bass. The best part is while they might be light on thump, they are not bright. They roll off just before things could get tiresome. The highs and mids get the most attention with the Nameless. Great for types of music that lean towards vocals. Soundstage is wide and airy.

The build is interesting. VERY light weight from the housing to the thinner cable. The housings are extremely comfortable and are barely noticeable when in use. The cable is just a tad sticky, but I still like it very much as it does not seem prone to tangle.

Overall nice Earbuds for the price.






















--


----------



## mbwilson111

BloodyPenguin said:


> Great for types of music that lean towards vocals. Soundstage is wide and airy.





BloodyPenguin said:


> The housings are extremely comfortable and are barely noticeable when in use



Thank you.  This is what I was hoping to hear.  Is there enough bass to hear the bass guitars in acoustic music?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

mbwilson111 said:


> Thank you.  This is what I was hoping to hear.  Is there enough bass to hear the bass guitars in acoustic music?



Just.... enough.


----------



## Frederick Wang

snip3r77 said:


> How do you get em ? Thanks



Got mine from taobao

here is one priced at around 6$

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...9x6wUR&id=540631123951&ns=1&abbucket=9#detail


----------



## wskl

ClieOS said:


> Makahl said:
> 
> 
> > Hey @ClieOS, could you please share some impressions about the NiceHCK DIY Graphene?
> ...



Is the DIY Graphene considered a sidegrade or upgrade to the PT15?

Also, same question with the Moondrop Nameless.

I am also interested in which of the 3 have the better soundstage, I listen to classical if that matters.  Thanks.


----------



## theoutsider (Sep 18, 2017)

mbwilson111 said:


> Happy to hear this.  I have Nameless coming...this week maybe.  I was hoping they would be smaller than my Monk+


My guts tell me it is a lot smaller than Monk+.

Right out of the box, Nameless has crystal-clear mid and high. It is spelled out in the manual that 100 hours of burn-in at moderate volume and for less than 10 hours per cycle is ideal for the earbuds. For that reason I do not want to elaborate more on the sound.


----------



## ClieOS

wskl said:


> Is the DIY Graphene considered a sidegrade or upgrade to the PT15?
> 
> Also, same question with the Moondrop Nameless.
> 
> I am also interested in which of the 3 have the better soundstage, I listen to classical if that matters.  Thanks.



DIY Graphene and PT15 share a lot of common traits, so yes, I'll say they are much more like sidegrade of each other than upgrade

Compared to PT15 / DIY Graphene, Nameless is tuned a littler smoother overall. But as far as overall sound quality goes, they are more or less at around the same level. Nameless is mainly a more relaxing earbud to listen to while PT15 / DIY Graphene are more aggressive i, their presentation.

All three are decent for Classical, through I won't say anyone of them can be considered as a Classical specialist. I am more inclined to recommend you to spend a little bit more for VX Pro instead.


----------



## hellfire8888

k's earbud samsara...hmmm is it worth the extra price for the new cable?


----------



## HungryPanda

woohoo jut received my K's 600, time for a listen


----------



## snip3r77

HungryPanda said:


> woohoo jut received my K's 600, time for a listen


Patiently waiting for your impression


----------



## bonson

hellfire8888 said:


> k's earbud samsara...hmmm is it worth the extra price for the new cable?


Don't know against k 500 but
I received them 2 days ago. Coming from Shozy BK At first I found them too bassy for my tasting . Shozy sound more natural to my ears while Samsara impressed me with sub bass and sound like big can IMHO It really depends what you re looking for.


----------



## silverfishla

Okay, so there's a couple of buds in my collection that I like, but don't love.  The two are the Vido and the NiceHCK EB200.  In some ways, they share a similar DNA.  They are both competent buds with a good representation of the full spectrum of sound. Bass represented (very well), Mids good and clear (sufficient), and present enough treble to round out a good balanced sound.  My only problem with them is that I consider them to be a bit "dull" sounding.  Most likely because the bass section (which is very present) sort of bleeds and floods the sound a bit.  I had been thinking about what I could do to mod these things to better suit my tastes.  I came up with (and maybe not a new idea) to reverse wire the drivers.  I've read that it makes no difference and does no harm to your speakers or amp.  The only difference being that when the driver should be pushing outward, instead it pulls inwards.  My thinking was that, because of the flimsiness of the driver film, an inward pull would probably create a "tighter" hit than an outward push.  I don't know if any of that turns out to be truth in fact.  But the results are in and they are very good.  A tighter and more impactful bass attack.  Less bloat from the bass into the other frequencies which creates a better and more separated space.  You can sort of now feel the bassnotes in your throat and acoustic notes become more flavorful.  It does not do anything harmful to the other frequencies, if anything, it makes them sound better too.  This must be what many modders do to make a run of the mill driver more punchy and distinct.  So, maybe I've cracked a nut...


----------



## jant71 (Sep 18, 2017)

Saw on NiceHCK store...
Listed as DQSM Z&W 420





and DQSM Z&W Panda:




Both 32Ohm, Panda $30 atm and 420 $40 atm. Panda 20 - 25,000 F.R. while 420 is 15 - 25,000 so I'm thinking the pricier one will have more bass this time ??? Both seemingly highly sensitive with the Panda at 117sens. and the 420 at 120sens.

Look cool. No cord slider though  420 looks better in silver than gold esp. with the plug and Y matching better.


----------



## noknok23

I ordered pk2s with white shells and got theses "panda" instead, I would most likely think these are the same with a rebranded shell. FYI i paid circa 12usd for them during sale but you can have them around 15 with headfi discount. 
they have some sibilance before burn in. afterwards they seems fine but treble is still a bit boosted, they are fine earbuds but dont think they are worth much more than nicehck pk2. more like a nice sidegrade

I liked the Z&W at first (nice smooth u shaped sound) but they have a high treble boost a bit too much... I think they are clearly overpriced and shouldnt be bought for more than 20usd imo


----------



## jant71

Cool! Looked decent but doesn't seem to set themselves apart.

Nameless looked great too but sounds like they don't have enough bass for me.

Only MX500 might interest me at this moment on the cheap bud front and they might not be the most reliable.


----------



## noknok23 (Sep 18, 2017)

mx500 clear shell have better build for slightly more expensive price. though they sound signature seems to be more mid centric, they have a very nice analog sound.
If you arent treble sensitive, TY 150s have wonderful bass


----------



## jant71

Due to half of my listening being sports talk radio and podcasts(which can be low quality) I need non-peaky smooth treble that isn't bright. Source can also brighten up and get harsh outside cranking with buds. I am one of the more treble tolerant around here and can eat it up but not under those conditions of open buds already losing bass amount to external noise and cranking up adding treble to possibly mp3's of shows that were bad cassette recordings from the 70's, low bit rate, or spotty reception areas.


----------



## noknok23

I see your requirement are for a very forgiving earbuds with great amount of bass. Why not yincrow? it's like a vido with better build quality.


----------



## jant71 (Sep 18, 2017)

I love my Philips and should probably double up on foams with them. Vido has the right amount of bass but is outclassed where I don't reach for it vs. the 4205(makes the Vido sound like buds because they sound more like a headphone and better ability across the range). Just set it to Mach3Bass for non music files. Philips can have more bass just have to build up the back end so they push inward more. A bit hard to find ear hooks since they are Philips earpod like design that is different so caps will block vent holes or not fit. Still gonna get a better source for buds than my Cowon as well just want one with good SQ, FM, and actual bookmarks. Cowon just isn't good with buds as it can roll the bass and also boost the treble above 20 on the volume. Have to sort a DAP out first then see if I need buds. Thanks for the help


----------



## waynes world

I just got the DIY Graphenes into my ears, and first impression is that I'm not disappointed 

What foams to you DIY Graphene users use? And is burn in recommended for them?


----------



## activatorfly

ClieOS said:


> DIY Graphene and PT15 share a lot of common traits, so yes, I'll say they are much more like sidegrade of each other than upgrade
> 
> Compared to PT15 / DIY Graphene, Nameless is tuned a littler smoother overall. But as far as overall sound quality goes, they are more or less at around the same level. Nameless is mainly a more relaxing earbud to listen to while PT15 / DIY Graphene are more aggressive i, their presentation.
> 
> All three are decent for Classical, through I won't say anyone of them can be considered as a Classical specialist. I am more inclined to recommend you to spend a little bit more for VX Pro instead.



I think that Graphene, having a more expansive sound-stage, are an upgrade compared to PT15. I'm still considering Moondrop - what are the attributes of VX Pro in contrast to Nameless?


----------



## luckyeights

Well i got my K's Samsara in the mail today along with the mx500 earbuds.  I will review them latter.  But i would like to say I am a bit disappointed in the K's as far as the finish is.  The review i saw earlier and what was pictured from the store i purchased is not what I received.  The one in the review and from the store had gloss shells with K's earphone elegantly marked on each bud what i got was just plain matte black buds with nothing on them.  They dont look nearly as nice or professional =(.  They do sound good but I am still disappointed in this bait and switch.


----------



## activatorfly

waynes world said:


> I just got the DIY Graphenes into my ears, and first impression is that I'm not disappointed
> 
> What foams to you DIY Graphene users use? And is burn in recommended for them?



I generally use HG High Quality Black Donut - as the foam texture has more grip. Graphene casings are a bit large for those however...so i've doubled up on larger full foams to get the correct seal. After listening to them for 5 days - i don't think they really need any burn in at all imho (compared to say TY Hi-Z HP-150s - which seem to require extensive burn in - to alleviate shrill treble!)


----------



## HungryPanda

waynes world said:


> I just got the DIY Graphenes into my ears, and first impression is that I'm not disappointed
> 
> What foams to you DIY Graphene users use? And is burn in recommended for them?



I use a good donut on mine


----------



## HungryPanda

I found the graphenes don't sound good on my Cowon P1 yet sound great from my Fiio X5III and desktop amp. It is strange, makes me think source is important and why some people don't rate them. I think they are great.


----------



## activatorfly

luckyeights said:


> Well i got my K's Samsara in the mail today along with the mx500 earbuds.  I will review them latter.  But i would like to say I am a bit disappointed in the K's as far as the finish is.  The review i saw earlier and what was pictured from the store i purchased is not what I received.  The one in the review and from the store had gloss shells with K's earphone elegantly marked on each bud what i got was just plain matte black buds with nothing on them.  They dont look nearly as nice or professional =(.  They do sound good but I am still disappointed in this bait and switch.



I thought the Samsara seemed overpriced? - hence i opted for K's K300 for $16 which sound good - after being re-cabled for balanced output. They are plain matte black with a K's inscription. Your flagship version should be the same as pictured with white inscriptions etc....Kinda glad i chose the cheaper version!


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> I use a good donut on mine



Thanks. I've got so many foams and donuts lying around now, I don't know which ones are "good" or not anymore lol. Anyway, I threw on some donuts to try for a while.



HungryPanda said:


> I found the graphenes don't sound good on my Cowon P1 yet sound great from my Fiio X5III and desktop amp. It is strange, makes me think source is important and why some people don't rate them. I think they are great.



So far they are sounding great off of either my Walnut (with v5i opamp) or off of my laptop -> zuperdac -> C&C BH amp (not highest end gear in the world I know, but I like it!).

The only problem I'm having with the graphenes at the moment is that they are too mesmerizing and distracting and I can't get any work done while listening to them lol


----------



## chinmie

ClieOS said:


> DIY Graphene and PT15 share a lot of common traits, so yes, I'll say they are much more like sidegrade of each other than upgrade
> 
> Compared to PT15 / DIY Graphene, Nameless is tuned a littler smoother overall. But as far as overall sound quality goes, they are more or less at around the same level. Nameless is mainly a more relaxing earbud to listen to while PT15 / DIY Graphene are more aggressive i, their presentation.
> 
> All three are decent for Classical, through I won't say anyone of them can be considered as a Classical specialist. I am more inclined to recommend you to spend a little bit more for VX Pro instead.



how does the graphene's tuning, soundstage and resolution compared to the VX Pro? i already have the VX and PT15, so i think we can use them as point of reference


----------



## luckyeights

activatorfly said:


> I thought the Samsara seemed overpriced? - hence i opted for K's K300 for $16 which sound good - after being re-cabled for balanced output. They are plain matte black with a K's inscription. Your flagship version should be the same as pictured with white inscriptions etc....Kinda glad i chose the cheaper version!



Dont be mistaken, even though I am disappointed that they are not as pictured the sound that comes out of them is most certainly deserving of the price.  You can buy tons of cheap buds that may even be 85% of a totl bud but that little extra 15% will surprise you.


----------



## waynes world (Sep 18, 2017)

I gotta say, this is an amazing time to be a frugal earbud shopper. I really can't believe how good buds, such as the EMX500's and DIY Graphenes, sound. They both bring me joy that does not involve breaking the bank. Consider me happy!


----------



## ClieOS

activatorfly said:


> I think that Graphene, having a more expansive sound-stage, are an upgrade compared to PT15. I'm still considering Moondrop - what are the attributes of VX Pro in contrast to Nameless?





chinmie said:


> how does the graphene's tuning, soundstage and resolution compared to the VX Pro? i already have the VX and PT15, so i think we can use them as point of reference



I didn't hear a much better soundstage on DIY Graphene over PT15 - neither really has a very wide soundstage, but DIY Graphene does portrait height better than PT15, where PT15's soundstage tends to sound more 2D. The overall width on both are about average IMO, where DIY Graphene might give 'bigger' sensation not because it has a wider image, but because its has a fuller lower range that tends to fill in the same 'space' better than PT15. On the other hand, one can say PT15 has a deeper background for the same reason. As far as VX Pro goes, I think as far as soundstage is concerned, it is about 20% larger than either PT15 or DIY Graphene to my ears - and thanks to that wider image, detail tends to sound more resolved from one another. That is, there is more 'space' between each individual note to zoom into.


----------



## chaiyuta

@luckyeights : How much did you pay for K's Samsara?


----------



## ATi7500

Just received **** PK2S. First impression after 5 seconds of listening: these things have a TRANSPARENT sound. Very holographic. 

And I am happy


----------



## Tarnum

Just receive Itxin EV-2 earbud (Korean) I must say that such a great earbud for price in budget-range (listed price is ~ 18$ in Korea, I got mine 9$)
Just a few minutes of impression: a big sound, punchy, well-balanced and "enough" bass when using with full foam (Korean reviews were mostly done with X-type foam or donut foam) 
I just currently have Tomahawk, EO320 and RX-1 to compare:
-It has much bigger bass with deeper extension than Tomahawk and RX-1, bass quantity can be a just little bit lesser than EO320 but more punchy and slam.  
-Clarity and detail is really good, much better than EO320 (even when EO320 using donut foam), on pared with RX-1, sound is more natural than Tomahawk.
-Sound-stage is sustainable, not as wide as Tomahawk, however, make me more enjoyable than the "diluted" and "back-of-head" feeling of Tomahawk.
It's is my favorite, remind me the memory of old Baldoor E100, but with less hash and more precise sound. 
EMX500 is on the way to come, I will have nice reference to compare. 

Burning begins.....


----------



## activatorfly

ClieOS said:


> I didn't hear a much better soundstage on DIY Graphene over PT15 - neither really has a very wide soundstage, but DIY Graphene does portrait height better than PT15, where PT15's soundstage tends to sound more 2D. The overall width on both are about average IMO, where DIY Graphene might give 'bigger' sensation not because it has a wider image, but because its has a fuller lower range that tends to fill in the same 'space' better than PT15. On the other hand, one can say PT15 has a deeper background for the same reason. As far as VX Pro goes, I think as far as soundstage is concerned, it is about 20% larger than either PT15 or DIY Graphene to my ears - and thanks to that wider image, detail tends to sound more resolved from one another. That is, there is more 'space' between each individual note to zoom into.


Thanks for clarifying! -


ATi7500 said:


> Just received **** PK2S. First impression after 5 seconds of listening: these things have a TRANSPARENT sound. Very holographic.
> 
> And I am happy


How do they compare with original PK2? - poor bass/crackling at high volumes....


----------



## activatorfly

ClieOS said:


> I didn't hear a much better soundstage on DIY Graphene over PT15 - neither really has a very wide soundstage, but DIY Graphene does portrait height better than PT15, where PT15's soundstage tends to sound more 2D. The overall width on both are about average IMO, where DIY Graphene might give 'bigger' sensation not because it has a wider image, but because its has a fuller lower range that tends to fill in the same 'space' better than PT15. On the other hand, one can say PT15 has a deeper background for the same reason. As far as VX Pro goes, I think as far as soundstage is concerned, it is about 20% larger than either PT15 or DIY Graphene to my ears - and thanks to that wider image, detail tends to sound more resolved from one another. That is, there is more 'space' between each individual note to zoom into.


Thanks for clarifying! - i agree that the presentation of lower range frequencies (+ mids) are resolved better by Graphene, imo i think PT15 might be better suited to being converted to balanced output - i'll re-cable MMCX soon to try them out. In amongst the layering & micro detail - what is the VX Pro bass/sub-bass response like?


----------



## ClieOS

activatorfly said:


> Thanks for clarifying! - i agree that the presentation of lower range frequencies (+ mids) are resolved better by Graphene, imo i think PT15 might be better suited to being converted to balanced output - i'll re-cable MMCX soon to try them out. In amongst the layering & micro detail - what is the VX Pro bass/sub-bass response like?



Between DIY Graphene and PT15, I'll say VX Pro's bass region is similar to that of DIY Graphene rather than PT15.


----------



## activatorfly

ClieOS said:


> Between DIY Graphene and PT15, I'll say VX Pro's bass region is similar to that of DIY Graphene rather than PT15.


I think PT15 (good value at $14) should have more resolution potential, when balanced....& VX Pro sound very promising!


----------



## snip3r77

ClieOS said:


> I didn't hear a much better soundstage on DIY Graphene over PT15 - neither really has a very wide soundstage, but DIY Graphene does portrait height better than PT15, where PT15's soundstage tends to sound more 2D. The overall width on both are about average IMO, where DIY Graphene might give 'bigger' sensation not because it has a wider image, but because its has a fuller lower range that tends to fill in the same 'space' better than PT15. On the other hand, one can say PT15 has a deeper background for the same reason. As far as VX Pro goes, I think as far as soundstage is concerned, it is about 20% larger than either PT15 or DIY Graphene to my ears - and thanks to that wider image, detail tends to sound more resolved from one another. That is, there is more 'space' between each individual note to zoom into.


Coming from vido, should I go for graphene/docomo/ vx prio/ emx500 ?


----------



## activatorfly

snip3r77 said:


> Coming from vido, should I go for graphene/docomo/ vx prio/ emx500 ?


Graphene next logical step up....


----------



## golov17

Tarnum said:


> Just receive Itxin EV-2 earbud (Korean) I must say that such a great earbud for price in budget-range (listed price is ~ 18$ in Korea, I got mine 9$)
> Just a few minutes of impression: a big sound, punchy, well-balanced and "enough" bass when using with full foam (Korean reviews were mostly done with X-type foam or donut foam)
> I just currently have Tomahawk, EO320 and RX-1 to compare:
> -It has much bigger bass with deeper extension than Tomahawk and RX-1, bass quantity can be a just little bit lesser than EO320 but more punchy and slam.
> ...


http://www.ixtin.com/ixtin/front/earphoneList.php


----------



## CharlesRievone

snip3r77 said:


> Coming from vido, should I go for graphene/docomo/ vx prio/ emx500 ?





activatorfly said:


> Graphene next logical step up....


EMX500 is would have lesser but tighter bass than Vido but it also has extended highs.
GMX760 (Graphene) for me wouldn't necessarily be a "step up" because it has a different sound signature but it is still a worthwhile pair to own.


----------



## golov17

Awesome earbuds V-Master from Thailand. Dark sig, 32 ohm, foamless, analog natural sound, fine tuning and price 100usd, i'm really glad and impressed, guys, love them


----------



## mochill

me want


----------



## golov17

mochill said:


> me want


https://www.facebook.com/VFriendTeam/


----------



## bird-loso

golov17 said:


> Awesome earbuds V-Master from Thailand. Dark sig, 32 ohm, foamless, analog natural sound, fine tuning and price 100usd, i'm really glad and impressed, guys, love them


Nice Oleg I'm also proud on very successful in Thailand , maker is my friend that very famous V-series in Thailand .


----------



## waynes world

snip3r77 said:


> Coming from vido, should I go for graphene/docomo/ vx prio/ emx500 ?



I'm not familiar with the docomo or vx prio, but as far as the emx500 and graphenes are concerned, I'd get both. They sound different, but are both awesome in their own ways. The emx500's cable seems more robust, and they have more bass, so they will be what I use when out and about. The graphene's cable is thinner and seems more delicate, and their sound is a bit brighter and more resolving, so I'll be using them more around the home. But I'm very happy to have both.


----------



## danimoca

waynes world said:


> I'm not familiar with the docomo or vx prio, but as far as the emx500 and graphenes are concerned, I'd get both. They sound different, but are both awesome in their own ways. The emx500's cable seems more robust, and they have more bass, so they will be what I use when out and about. The graphene's cable is thinner and seems more delicate, and their sound is a bit brighter and more resolving, so I'll be using them more around the home. But I'm very happy to have both.



The graphene's are brighter than the EMX500's? 

I already find the EMX's a bit on the bright side (even tough I like them).


----------



## jant71

Not that they aren't risky, anyone try the Panasonic earpod style RP-TCME:




Panny have done well at some things but also crappy on some others so who can tell? May be alright.


----------



## waynes world

danimoca said:


> The graphene's are brighter than the EMX500's?
> 
> I already find the EMX's a bit on the bright side (even tough I like them).



Actually, the graphenes seem more balanced. The emx500's are more v-shaped with more forward bass and more forward highs. The graphene's highs seem more resolving and refined, but are not as much "in your face".


----------



## 93EXCivic

Can anyone compare the Yinman 600 against the Rose Maysa? I think they are my top two choices for my next bud.


----------



## joincoolkidclub

If I may jump in... is there a bud that would be a significant step up from the Monk+ ? I enjoy the clarity, sparkle, and engagement of the VE but would love better imaging, musicality, and impact. Any ideas?


----------



## waynes world

joincoolkidclub said:


> If I may jump in... is there a bud that would be a significant step up from the Monk+ ? I enjoy the clarity, sparkle, and engagement of the VE but would love better imaging, musicality, and impact. Any ideas?



How much do you want to spend?


----------



## joincoolkidclub

<150


----------



## waynes world

joincoolkidclub said:


> <150



My only higher end buds are the VE Zen1 and Zen2. Both are amazing, but the Zen1's are most special to me. Unfortunately they are discontinued, so I don't know what to suggest and I'll have to let more experience "higher end bud" users help you out. If you want to spend <$30 though, the diy graphenes are actually rather impressive.


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 20, 2017)

I think RX-1 would benefit from sub-bass to add some warmth it needs.  It sounds mids forward due to lack of low end, and fairly even low to high treble.  It has better textures than the Monk+ and sounds more defined, but obviously lacking bass compared to the Monk+ reducing dynamics.  It's the insufficient low-end creates the vocals to sound a bit forward on the RX-1.  I think the upper bass light to keep the mids more articulate.  The high treble and reduction of the low-end creates a large sound stage for me.  Sub-bass would create a better sound stage with ambiance feel.  I like the high treble, nice extension.  For me, low treble is at the right level as well, and transitions well to the high treble.


----------



## bonson

waynes world said:


> How much do you want to spend?


For clarity you should add a few more and choose Shozy BK.  Among  Shozy BK k 300 samsara and zen 2 it is the one I keep returning to.


----------



## Raketen

joincoolkidclub said:


> If I may jump in... is there a bud that would be a significant step up from the Monk+ ? I enjoy the clarity, sparkle, and engagement of the VE but would love better imaging, musicality, and impact. Any ideas?



Shrink ray some portaPros?


----------



## flamesofarctica

joincoolkidclub said:


> If I may jump in... is there a bud that would be a significant step up from the Monk+ ? I enjoy the clarity, sparkle, and engagement of the VE but would love better imaging, musicality, and impact. Any ideas?



For me personally a step up from the Monk+ won't be found until you spend quite a bit more, although you may find something with a sound signature you prefer, but I really like the Monk+. I'd class the Asura 2 and the TY HP-320 the lowest cost buds I've found to be a step up.


----------



## chinmie

SilverEars said:


> I think RX-1 would benefit from sub-bass to add some warmth it needs.  It sounds mids forward due to lack of low end, and fairly even low to high treble.  It has better textures than the Monk+ and sounds more defined, but obviously lacking bass compared to the Monk+ reducing dynamics.  It's the insufficient low-end creates the vocals to sound a bit forward on the RX-1.  I think the upper bass light to keep the mids more articulate.  The high treble and reduction of the low-end creates a large sound stage for me.  Sub-bass would create a better sound stage with ambiance feel.  I like the high treble, nice extension.  For me, low treble is at the right level as well, and transitions well to the high treble.



to me personally the RX-1 have a bigger bass volume and extend a bit lower than the monk plus


----------



## Frederick Wang (Sep 20, 2017)

Lately I need a pair of inexpensive earbuds with mic for my phone, so I bought 2 pairs based on their reputations from here, 1more EO320 and Toneking TP16.
They are at the same price range but I have to say, TP16 is a much much better earbud.
Of the 2 EO320 without doubt is the better product, better made, better handy control & all, but sound-wise, it sounds so thin and less detailed, I find it difficult to pick it up alongside TP16.


----------



## Frederick Wang

joincoolkidclub said:


> If I may jump in... is there a bud that would be a significant step up from the Monk+ ? I enjoy the clarity, sparkle, and engagement of the VE but would love better imaging, musicality, and impact. Any ideas?


I recommend Toneking TP16, great buds


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 20, 2017)

chinmie said:


> to me personally the RX-1 have a bigger bass volume and extend a bit lower than the monk plus


What?!  You can't be serious.  Monk+ has higher bass and impact with lower treble emphasis if comparing to RX-1.  RX-1 is more leveled off in the treble transition.


----------



## chinmie

SilverEars said:


> What?!  You can't be serious.  Monk+ has higher bass and impact with lower treble emphasis if comparing to RX-1.  RX-1 is more leveled off in the treble transition.



yes, i am serious 
to me monk plus never reach to low bass. they may have mid bass thump, but not down low. the RX-1 reach lower (although not very far from monk plus). that is why i never seem to like monk plus. maybe it's subjective, so it's better to crosscheck to other's experience too


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 20, 2017)

joincoolkidclub said:


> <150


Maybe the Rose Masya (90-100), that's what I went for, I'll have it soon to share my impressions but many have already given it glowing reviews for its balanced/slightly vocal orientated sound, soundstage, clarity and separation and it's 'musical' presentation with touch of warmth that helps it avoid being analytical. Of course these are the general opinions of the reviewers and not my own.

There's also the Diy Graphene which you can read impressions of by looking at the previous few pages of this thread for 30usd. Although that bud is probably abit brighter than the monk + but overall is quite balanced apparently.


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 20, 2017)

chinmie said:


> yes, i am serious
> to me monk plus never reach to low bass. they may have mid bass thump, but not down low. the RX-1 reach lower (although not very far from monk plus). that is why i never seem to like monk plus. maybe it's subjective, so it's better to crosscheck to other's experience too


I blame partially the low level bass to less seal due to larger than typical speaker diameter(which reduces seal) compared to something like Monk+ which fits well or better.  I find RX-1 doesn't have much forwardness of the spectrum(although mids can be argue'd relatively due to other areas not so forward as low treble-upper mids and upper bass are the common hot areas).  Just enough for mids and highs articulation and sense greater sound stage.


----------



## joincoolkidclub

Raketen said:


> Shrink ray some portaPros?



PortaPro + more expansive sound stage is almost always what I'm looking for... 

Thanks all for the advice- the Masya, BK, and Asura all sound similar to what I'm looking for.


----------



## mochill

shozy bk / stardust


----------



## Saoshyant

joincoolkidclub said:


> PortaPro + more expansive sound stage is almost always what I'm looking for...
> 
> Thanks all for the advice- the Masya, BK, and Asura all sound similar to what I'm looking for.



As a Porta Pro fan, the carbon fiber Masya sounds excellent to my ears.


----------



## luckyeights

Well i got the rest of my buds today....  Here is my whole collection.  

top left to right
Ty650
Nicehck graphene
T-music (gen 1)
Monks
Auglamour rx1
Nicehck pk2
Rose Masya
K's 300 Samsara
MX500
Vido
Sony e808+
lastly **** pt15

ohhh and i forgot to get the qian 39 in this shot =(

Anyway Basically the ones that are out of the cases/packaging are the good ones IMO.  The rest have their uses but i feel they are more niche.  I will go into more detail on these earbuds at a latter date as i have some comparing to do between the mx500 and vido these two buds are quite impressive given their price point.   I will be trying to find their weaknesses.   Basically these two have a very similar sound signature to themselves and the K's Samsara.  ***Note that even though the signature is the same this does not mean same quality i will need some time to compare them.  

The PK2 is probably the most strange or interesting out of the bunch  as far as its sound signature, its basically W shaped its very unique indeed.  Not bad but unique and by unique I mean that no other earbud sounds like them that I own.   

basic review

Ty650 - Very mellow earbud it is what i would consider the upgrade path from the Monk plus.  Mid centric with a more analogue sound.

Nickhck Graphene - Bright earbud lots of details and energetic I find them fatiguing, these would be an upgrade from the **** pt15.

T-music - Dont buy these 

Monks - Mid centric with a veiled sound signature I dont really like them.  The upgrade from these would be the ty650 which lifts that veil quite a bit but keeps the overal signature imo.

Auglamlour - One trick pony for mid lovers, Lack bass and sparkle on high end.   Basicly a mid bud, dont like these either.

Nicehck pk2 - Very unique sound signature out of the whole lot these are the only ones that have a W shaped signature its very interesting you would have to listen to it to understand fully how different these are from the rest.

Rose Masya - Very clean and crystal clear earbud.  Very neutral sound signature and very detailed.  These are great all rounders although sometimes but not too frequently can be a tad too bright.  But these handle bass and vocals very well.  

K's 300 Samsara - These at first I was unsure about something sounded off in the mid to high range but i figured it out DO NOT USE FULL FOAM on these EVER!!!  (except for maybe the ultra thin ones that come with monks)  These buds have the best bass out of the bunch as far as quantity but is slightly behind in quality compared to Masya.  Mids are very good on this earbud a tad better than those on the Masya whom i find to be a little thin sometimes. Highs on this earbud are very good but you cant use full foam or they get messed up badly.  I would say the highs are a little less in comparison to masya as far as air and everything goes but still very good.

Mx500 and Vido share similar sound sig to the Samsara I will need to compare more but basically these earbuds punch above their price point.  I have not had a whole lot of listening time with them but they are both very good however they are a little bit more congested and are more closed in compared to Samsara.

Sony e808+ -  These are if you just want pure BASS,  they really go deep in the bass department but their highs are kind of weird and the mids recessed.

**** pt 15 - High centric bud for all you high frequency lovers however i would probably recommend the Nicehck graphene over these they keep the good high end but balance out the rest of the frequencies better than these. 

Qian 39 - These are very warm mid centric buds with good bass.  Highs are a little rolled off on these. These buds are also kind of unique sounding almost analogue like I suppose.  They are very pleasant to listen to.  These also have very good layering/separation, you can pick out each instrument being played and listen to just it if you focus on it.


So that pretty much sums it up hope this helps you all in your future purchases.   I will further compare those vidos and mx500s at a latter date.


----------



## luckyeights

Oh and if your wondering my favorite so far is the K's Samsara with donuts.  It has more bass than Masya just a slight bit less detailed. Its mids are a tad bit more filled out than the masya.  The highs are not quite as good as the masaya but are quite good with donuts.  What it really comes down to is the that Samsara just has a way with everything that just makes you want to keep listening.  You cant really go wrong with either i really love both the Masya and Samsara.  But I do slightly perfer the Samsara as it is just that little bit more pleasing to listen too.


----------



## euge

luckyeights said:


> Oh and if your wondering my favorite so far is the K's Samsara with donuts.  It has more bass than Masya just a slight bit less detailed. Its mids are a tad bit more filled out than the masya.  The highs are not quite as good as the masaya but are quite good with donuts.  What it really comes down to is the that Samsara just has a way with everything that just makes you want to keep listening.  You cant really go wrong with either i really love both the Masya and Samsara.  But I do slightly perfer the Samsara as it is just that little bit more pleasing to listen too.



recently got the masya as an upgrade to the asura 2.0 and love them, fits better too, how does the samsara soundstage compare to the masyas?


----------



## luckyeights

euge said:


> recently got the masya as an upgrade to the asura 2.0 and love them, fits better too, how does the samsara soundstage compare to the masyas?



The Masya has a little bit better sound stage than the Samsara.


----------



## luckyeights

Ok results are in for Vido vs mx500.  The mx500 is brighter in tonality than the vido.  Vido has a way better sound stage compared to mx500 that feels in your face and claustrophobic.  Also the vido is better at articulating details over the mx500.  The bass on the vido is very good in both quantity and quality and is more detailed and controlled compared to mx500.  The vido is a really amazing earbud for the price.   I would place the vido as a must have and highly recommend.  I cant say what the durability will be for this thing but considering it is less than 4 dollars who cares buy a dozen of them.   I am really impressed by it and I own a lot of other earbuds.  The hype is most certainly real for this one I was not able to find any real faults with them other than the unknown durability factor the sound quality is just unfair.  I even listened to Yosi's bubbles it was pretty epic.

I would most certainly recommend the Vido over the mx500 hands down.  And if im being honest here just go buy it...... NOW


----------



## KookaBurrra (Sep 21, 2017)

luckyeights said:


> Ok results are in for Vido vs mx500.  The mx500 is brighter in tonality than the vido.  Vido has a way better sound stage compared to mx500 that feels in your face and claustrophobic.  Also the vido is better at articulating details over the mx500.  The bass on the vido is very good in both quantity and quality and is more detailed and controlled compared to mx500.
> 
> I would most certainly recommend the Vido over the mx500 hands down



I'm not agree with you about that. "Vido has a way better sound stage compared to mx500 that feels in your face and claustrophobic" : NO!!!  The soundstage of EMX500 is open, airy and have nothing "claustrophobic" (you are the first people to said something like this, here...).



luckyeights said:


> The mx500 is brighter in tonality than the vido.


Ok, you don't like the tonality and the "signature" of EMX500, but it does not make it a bad earbud : it's not for your taste... You confuse "taste" and "quality", right?

For me, EMX500 are really better than Vido.


----------



## cocolinho

+1 with Kooka


----------



## ballog (Sep 21, 2017)

cocolinho said:


> +1 with Kooka


+1 with Kooka too. Luckyeights must have a lemon EMX500. This is not uncommon I have had both bad and good multiple copies of earbuds - for example Monk Original, Auglamour RX1. I have one EMX500 and a few Vidos and personnally my EMX500 is way better (more extension on both ends and better soundstage). It has been mentioned on several occasions that the EMX500 are like Vidos on steroids and rightly so. I must point out that the EMX500 comes with a cable that alone cost $7.00 (same as I have bought in the past to recable Vidos). So a recabled Vido comes to the same cost as the EMX500. And for that personally I can safely say that its the best valued easily available earbud.


----------



## ATi7500

ballog said:


> +1 with Kooka too. Luckyeights must have a lemon EMX500. This is not uncommon I have had both bad and good multiple copies of earbuds - for example Monk Original, Auglamour RX1. I have one EMX500 and a few Vidos and personnally my EMX500 is way better (more extension on both ends and better soundstage). It has been mentioned on several occasions that the EMX500 are like Vidos on steroids and rightly so. I must point out that the EMX500 comes with a cable that alone cost $7.00 (same as I have bought in the past to recable Vidos). So a recabled Vido comes to the same cost as the EMX500. And for that personally I can safely say that its the best valued easily available earbud.


Has anyone compared EMX500 vs RY4S yet?


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 21, 2017)

luckyeights said:


> Well i got the rest of my buds today....  Here is my whole collection.
> 
> top left to right
> Ty650
> ...



Ok this is a brilliant post thank you for this. Very interesting about the Samsara and Masya comparison. Can I ask were you using the Masya full foam and Samsara donut foam?

I have the Masya arriving in a few days and I'm just wondering if the thinner sounding vocals would be an annoyance or if it's only thin sounding in comparison to the samsara.

I really love a bud with full sounding vocals but without sacrificing balance and only a touch of warmth.

Maybe some mild EQ would bring out a more full sound for the Masya. A good seal also. Did they fit your ear well? Just curious thanks 

Edit: If I looked at the picture I'd realise you used Monk thin foams on the samsara... whoops xD


----------



## luckyeights

hellfire8888 said:


> k's earbud samsara...hmmm is it worth the extra price for the new cable?





seanc6441 said:


> Ok this is a brilliant post thank you for this. Very interesting about the Samsara and Masya comparison. Can I ask were you using the Masya full foam and Samsara donut foam?
> 
> I have the Masya arriving in a few days and I'm just wondering if the thinner sounding vocals would be an annoyance or if it's only thin sounding in comparison to the samsara.
> 
> ...




Masya if full foam.


----------



## luckyeights

ballog said:


> +1 with Kooka too. Luckyeights must have a lemon EMX500. This is not uncommon I have had both bad and good multiple copies of earbuds - for example Monk Original, Auglamour RX1. I have one EMX500 and a few Vidos and personnally my EMX500 is way better (more extension on both ends and better soundstage). It has been mentioned on several occasions that the EMX500 are like Vidos on steroids and rightly so. I must point out that the EMX500 comes with a cable that alone cost $7.00 (same as I have bought in the past to recable Vidos). So a recabled Vido comes to the same cost as the EMX500. And for that personally I can safely say that its the best valued easily available earbud.



Not sure why you would say its a lemon?  There is no distortion or driver issues that I can hear.


----------



## 93EXCivic (Sep 21, 2017)

joincoolkidclub said:


> If I may jump in... is there a bud that would be a significant step up from the Monk+ ? I enjoy the clarity, sparkle, and engagement of the VE but would love better imaging, musicality, and impact. Any ideas?



That shouldn't be that hard.... I was not that impressed with the Monk+ once I tried out a number of other earbuds. Try the NiceHCK PK2 or Yinman 150.

I found problems with most of the earbuds I have tried so far though. T-Music V2 was too flat and boring but everything sounded pretty well controlled. The Yinman 64 ohm was a bit lacking in the highs. The Qian39 and SHE3800 were just kind of meh. The TY Hi-Z 32's bass was too much and was not very good quality. The Monk+ and T-Music V1 both seemed to be like lacking in bass quality. It didn't feel very thigh to me. The NiceHCK PK2s are super comfortable and have a very good midrange and highs but the bass is lacking. The Yinman 150 ohm are my favorites so far but I wish they had more sparkle in highs.

I have Vidos on the way (mostly to play with modifying) and **** PT15. I am planning on ordering Rose Maysa in the very near future. I am hoping I can find an earbud I completely love soon because I prefer the form factor and soundstage of earbuds over IEMs. I would much rather wear earbuds at work.


----------



## jogawag (Sep 21, 2017)

ATi7500 said:


> Has anyone compared EMX500 vs RY4S yet?


EMX500 vs. RY4S

EMX500 - V-shaped sound. Detailed treble, and deep but a little thin bass. Good braided cable.

RY4S - Treble and medium are clear, and strong bass with core. But rubbery coating cable. Though I like this RY4S's sound more.

Edit:
I do not think that the sound of EMX 500 is close to Vido.


----------



## SilverEars

Can somebody link me where to buy the Vido?  I can't find it.

Also, anybody from the US have declined payment, AliExpress has me send documents to prove the payment methods are legit.

I rather not provide these documents with personal info to a Chinese website.

Is it just my bank or anybody have good luck with using payment methods from a US bank?


----------



## HungryPanda

I had to provide documents after a flurry of orders


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 21, 2017)

HungryPanda said:


> I had to provide documents after a flurry of orders


Ok, it's maybe due to trying to order bulk.  I'll try separating.


----------



## ATi7500

jogawag said:


> EMX500 vs. RY4S
> 
> EMX500 - V-shaped sound. Detailed treble, and deep but a little thin bass. Good braided cable.
> 
> RY4S - Treble and medium are clear, and strong bass with core. But rubbery coating cable. Though I like this RY4S's sound more.



Thank you. So as I thought: Qian25~Vido~RY4S, and EMX500~TY-Z 32. I am just trying to have similar models compared between each other, so people here don't keep buying near duplicates with same sound


----------



## CharlesRievone

jogawag said:


> EMX500 vs. RY4S
> 
> EMX500 - V-shaped sound. Detailed treble, and deep but a little thin bass. Good braided cable.
> 
> RY4S - Treble and medium are clear, and strong bass with core. But rubbery coating cable. Though I like this RY4S's sound more.


I once listened to both EMX500 and RY4S side by side using a splitter, then listened to 1 side of each pair and I couldn't find a big difference with them.
I think they may be just using the same drivers and varies only on the cables and plugs.


----------



## snip3r77

SilverEars said:


> Can somebody link me where to buy the Vido?  I can't find it.
> 
> Also, anybody from the US have declined payment, AliExpress has me send documents to prove the payment methods are legit.
> 
> ...



Just search vido at aliexpress


----------



## ATi7500

CharlesRievone said:


> I once listened to both EMX500 and RY4S side by side using a splitter, then listened to 1 side of each pair and I couldn't find a big difference with them.
> I think they may be just using the same drivers and varies only on the cables and plugs.


I feel this can apply to most MX500 style earbuds. That's also why I stopped buying earbuds with that shell. 
Just got PK2S yesterday and it is truly different from anything else I own at the moment.
My collection until now: Qian25, 39, TY-Z 32, TY-Z 314P, Vido, PK2S, SHE3800, RY4S, RY04, Monk+. Qian69 incoming!


----------



## jogawag (Sep 21, 2017)

CharlesRievone said:


> I once listened to both EMX500 and RY4S side by side using a splitter, then listened to 1 side of each pair and I couldn't find a big difference with them.
> I think they may be just using the same drivers and varies only on the cables and plugs.



Whether between me and your ears are different, or whether it is an individual difference of earbuds,  I can not know.
But I am confident that I can distinguish the two earbuds with Blind Test.


----------



## CharlesRievone

ATi7500 said:


> I feel this can apply to most MX500 style earbuds. That's also why I stopped buying earbuds with that shell.


I agree to some extent, but Monk+ and EMX500 for example definitely doesn't sound they same, and they both use sennheiser mx500 shells. So we can still find some nuances among buds that use the same shells



ATi7500 said:


> Just got PK2S yesterday and it is truly different from anything else I own at the moment.
> My collection until now: Qian25, 39, TY-Z 32, TY-Z 314P, Vido, PK2S, SHE3800, RY4S, RY04, Monk+. Qian69 incoming!


Love my PK2S as well. Also have owned almost all of the buds you listed. I think you're good to move on to mid-fi


----------



## waynes world

I really like the Vido's, but...



KookaBurrra said:


> I'm not agree with you about that. "Vido has a way better sound stage compared to mx500 that feels in your face and claustrophobic" : NO!!!  The soundstage of EMX500 is open, airy and have nothing "claustrophobic" (you are the first people to said something like this, here...).
> Ok, you don't like the tonality and the "signature" of EMX500, but it does not make it a bad earbud : it's not for your taste... You confuse "taste" and "quality", right?
> For me, EMX500 are really better than Vido.





cocolinho said:


> +1 with Kooka





ballog said:


> +1 with Kooka too. Luckyeights must have a lemon EMX500. This is not uncommon I have had both bad and good multiple copies of earbuds - for example Monk Original, Auglamour RX1. I have one EMX500 and a few Vidos and personnally my EMX500 is way better (more extension on both ends and better soundstage). It has been mentioned on several occasions that the EMX500 are like Vidos on steroids and rightly so. I must point out that the EMX500 comes with a cable that alone cost $7.00 (same as I have bought in the past to recable Vidos). So a recabled Vido comes to the same cost as the EMX500. And for that personally I can safely say that its the best valued easily available earbud.



+1 x 3!


----------



## ATi7500

CharlesRievone said:


> I agree to some extent, but Monk+ and EMX500 for example definitely doesn't sound they same, and they both use sennheiser mx500 shells. So we can still find some nuances among buds that use the same shells
> 
> 
> Love my PK2S as well. Also have owned almost all of the buds you listed. I think you're good to move on to mid-fi



What would you recommend as next step? I like clear, holographic sound, smooth highs. Not much importance on bass impact, it just needs to reach deep. Also, love large soundstage.


----------



## activatorfly

CharlesRievone said:


> I agree to some extent, but Monk+ and EMX500 for example definitely doesn't sound they same, and they both use sennheiser mx500 shells. So we can still find some nuances among buds that use the same shells
> 
> 
> Love my PK2S as well. Also have owned almost all of the buds you listed. I think you're good to move on to mid-fi



How do the PK2S compare to the originals? - I like their shells, but however they seem to distort & crackle with increasing bass levels...


----------



## CharlesRievone

jogawag said:


> Whether between me and your ears are different, or whether it is an individual difference of earbuds, I can not know.
> But I am confident that I can distinguish the two earbuds with Blind Test.


Yeah my friends also say they indeed sound different. RY4S is warmer than the EMX500. I for one didn't really think much about them. All i know is that they're both great. 



ATi7500 said:


> What would you recommend as next step? I like clear, holographic sound, smooth highs. Not much importance on bass impact, it just needs to reach deep. Also, love large soundstage.


I personally haven't tried them but the Blur (by Wong Kuan Wae) might by what you are looking for.



activatorfly said:


> How do the PK2S compare to the originals? - I like their shells, but however they seem to distort & crackle with increasing bass levels...


Same observation with the NiceHCK PK2. The bass crackles on deep bass.
No such thing on PK2S. Though they definitely can't reach basshead levels, maybe just on the neutral side. The strong points of the PK2S is the clear mids. The highs could get too hot for some though. I still like it as an alternative to the Graphenes because it has a better build quality and fit.


----------



## ctaxxxx

SilverEars said:


> Can somebody link me where to buy the Vido?  I can't find it.
> 
> Also, anybody from the US have declined payment, AliExpress has me send documents to prove the payment methods are legit.
> 
> ...



That crap is so ridiculous. It's like asking to get your sensitive data stolen. Just cancel the order and make a new one. That's how I got around it.


----------



## BloodyPenguin (Sep 21, 2017)

NICEHCK DIY MX500 PK1

www.aliexpress.com/item/2017-New-NICEHCK-DIY-MX500-PK1-Earbud-In-Ear-Earphone-Flat-Head-Plug-Earplugs-Headset-Earbud/32823569005.html

I'm in love with someone else, don't tell my wife. It is the NICEHCK DIY MX500 PK1. Such a fantastically fun sound, but more on that later.

There are multiple options for color of the cable and housings. There are also two different kinds of cables. The earbud used for this review is the "Black Silver MX500". I picked this version because I personally thought it looked the coolest.

Build is very decent with good materials. My only complaint is that the version of the cable I have is prone to microphonics. With the thin diameter of the cable, these can be worn over the ears to eliminate any noise.

Sound is just too much fun! Great quality, controlled sub-bass with mid-bass that stays out of the mids. Speaking of the mids, they are very engaging and musical. Vocals sounds smooth and accurate, but not overly forward. Highs have enough detail, though they do roll off early, I would not suggest these for analytical listening. However, they are wonderful for extending listening sessions.

Overall these are one of the most enjoyable earbuds I have had the pleasure of listening to in quite some time. Even with a bit of microphonics, from the version cable I have, I still find myself reaching for the NICEHCK DIY MX500 PK1 more and more. They have been my main earbud at work for the past week and it is helping to keep me awake and focused with some killer tunes. So, for the satisfying sound, I highly recommend these earbuds.






















--


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 21, 2017)

BloodyPenguin said:


> NICEHCK DIY MX500 PK1
> 
> www.aliexpress.com/item/2017-New-NICEHCK-DIY-MX500-PK1-Earbud-In-Ear-Earphone-Flat-Head-Plug-Earplugs-Headset-Earbud/32823569005.html
> 
> ...


How do they compare to NiceHCK PK2? If you have both?

There seems to be versions of MX500/PK1/PK2... Different drivers or just different housing/cable.

Seems like the PK1/PK2 version look identical so must be different drivers and the other DIY PK2 I bought from Nicehck is now obselete to this PK1? hmm I'd buy it if i knew it was new improved version maybe but I can't tell.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> How do they compare to NiceHCK PK2? If you have both?
> 
> There seems to be versions of MX500/PK1/PK2... Different drivers or just different housing/cable.
> 
> Seems like the PK1/PK2 version look identical so must be different drivers and the other DIY PK2 I bought from Nicehck is now obselete to this PK1? hmm I'd buy it if i knew it was new improved version maybe but I can't tell.



Yes, it is confusing. I recently received these ones:
*100% New Arrival In-ear Earphones Flat Head Plug Earphone HiFi Bass Earbuds DJ Earbuds Heavy Bass Sound Quality DIY MX500*

but how are they different from the PK1 (or PK2 for that matter)?:
*2017 New NICEHCK DIY MX500 PK1 Earbud In Ear Earphone Flat Head Plug Earplugs Headset Earbud HIFI Earphone Earbud Free Shipping*


----------



## jant71

Hmmm, $9.87 w/epacket for the MX500 

What is the white cable version? No picture and has green/yellow options but says to message if you want white cable version.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 21, 2017)

waynes world said:


> Yes, it is confusing. I recently received these ones:
> *100% New Arrival In-ear Earphones Flat Head Plug Earphone HiFi Bass Earbuds DJ Earbuds Heavy Bass Sound Quality DIY MX500*
> 
> but how are they different from the PK1 (or PK2 for that matter)?:
> *2017 New NICEHCK DIY MX500 PK1 Earbud In Ear Earphone Flat Head Plug Earplugs Headset Earbud HIFI Earphone Earbud Free Shipping*


Yes I wish they clarified if the driver is new/improved, the difference between PK1/PK2 versions (when equally priced) and if the versions here are the same as the standalone one you or I bought of the PK2 or MX500 respectively.

Interesting to note, many of the variations listed  on the MX500/PK1/PK2 combined listing actually cost less than the PK2 DIY I bought.

Who knows if I spent more for nothing or if I got a better version? Hard to say!


----------



## nick n

In reference to a post above ,using a splitter with both connected to the source at the same time changes the resistance the amp sees, so best to swap with a switch if possible.
It might not matter, but if you have 2 @32 ohm I am pretty sure the amp/source sees them as 16 ohms each in this manner( when each connected together at same time ).
This may or may not affect the final sound.
Unless I am mistaken it's late here 

Might be splitting hairs with that, but worth mentioning


----------



## CharlesRievone

nick n said:


> In reference to a post above ,using a splitter with both connected to the source at the same time changes the resistance the amp sees, so best to swap with a switch if possible.
> It might not matter, but if you have 2 @32 ohm I am pretty sure the amp/source sees them as 16 ohms each in this manner( when each connected together at same time ).
> This may or may not affect the final sound.
> Unless I am mistaken it's late here
> ...


Totally a good point. There is however a noticeable difference when listening to both Monk+ and EMX500. So yeah. It's not an accurate test procedure but it works.

Also might be worth nothing that Hangrui store lists EMX500 and RY4S "lookalikes" as different variants of the same item:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HAN...r-iphone-xiaomi-huawei-Meizu/32797505035.html
I still can't confirm if they both use the same drivers though.


----------



## calico88

where can I find top 10 cables, drivers, 3.5mm jack, housing etc for earphones ?
or highend buyer guides ? 
or latest review of those ?


----------



## CharlesRievone

calico88 said:


> where can I find top 10 cables, drivers, 3.5mm jack, housing etc for earphones ?
> or highend buyer guides ?
> or latest review of those ?


DIY Earbuds thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327


----------



## jogawag (Sep 22, 2017)

I also want to ask ,
where can I find latest "THE CHAMPIONS/THE CONTENDER/THE GREAT" earbuds list?
and latest simple review of those?

Edit:
That will be the basis for everyone's arguments.


----------



## cqtek

@jogawag, Is this the web you are looking for?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wGTZnKX1aP29c1bzs5JWgqSUlPzZqV9p_cw79VfRBpQ/pub


----------



## jogawag

cqtek said:


> @jogawag, Is this the web you are looking for?
> 
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wGTZnKX1aP29c1bzs5JWgqSUlPzZqV9p_cw79VfRBpQ/pub



That's right! I would like to say.
However, I think that this latest version is necessary for everyone.


----------



## mbwilson111

cqtek said:


> @jogawag, Is this the web you are looking for?
> 
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wGTZnKX1aP29c1bzs5JWgqSUlPzZqV9p_cw79VfRBpQ/pub



I don't have a Champion but I do have a Contender on the way.


----------



## snip3r77

Is there an entry/mid level that has similar/analog sig as shozy BK


----------



## jogawag (Sep 22, 2017)

mbwilson111 said:


> I don't have a Champion but I do have a Contender on the way.


As I am, as an earbuds fan, ranking format only for earbuds is desirable. Perhaps the same opinion for everyone?


----------



## rggz

snip3r77 said:


> Is there an entry/mid level that has similar/analog sig as shozy BK



Might your answer is DIY Graphene. Btw, there's a complete comparison here:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-diy-graphene.22565/reviews


----------



## theoutsider (Sep 22, 2017)

mbwilson111 said:


> I don't have a Champion but I do have a Contender on the way.


so which/what is your Contender?


----------



## mbwilson111

cursing said:


> so which/what is your Contender?



AuGlamour RX-1


----------



## waynes world

jogawag said:


> That's right! I would like to say.
> However, I think that this latest version is necessary for everyone.



I often refer back to that list and also wish that it was being updated. But as far as I am aware, @ClieOS is no longer maintaining it.  I'm not sure why though - I doubt that it took much time or effort at all lol!
Just kidding of course. I don't blame ClieOS at all for stopping it (and I greatly appreciate all of the time and effort that he spent). I wonder though if we can all bribe him for an annual update?


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> I often refer back to that list and also wish that it was being updated. But as far as I am aware, @ClieOS is no longer maintaining it.  I'm not sure why though - I doubt that it took much time or effort at all lol!
> Just kidding of course. I don't blame ClieOS at all for stopping it (and I greatly appreciate all of the time and effort that he spent). I wonder though if we can all bribe him for an annual update?



I just looked at his profile list.  My head almost exploded!


----------



## jogawag (Sep 22, 2017)

waynes world said:


> I often refer back to that list and also wish that it was being updated. But as far as I am aware, @ClieOS is no longer maintaining it.  I'm not sure why though - I doubt that it took much time or effort at all lol!
> Just kidding of course. I don't blame ClieOS at all for stopping it (and I greatly appreciate all of the time and effort that he spent). I wonder though if we can all bribe him for an annual update?



That is correct. It is impossible to expect ClieOS's efforts only...

Although it is not the sound quality ranking of earbuds that I want, the popularity ranking of earbuds website has  been created, like below.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/EarbudsAnonymous/permalink/1825966607664865/

By the way, among my few earbuds, my top favorites are Shozy BK, Cygnus, TY Hi-Z HP-150s, AWK-314P, Rose Mojito, Vido. They ware already added in the ranking, so I only voted for them.
I desire Moondrop Liebesleid arriving today to be my favorite champion earbuds. If so, I will add it to the ranking and vote for it.


----------



## Santojob (Sep 22, 2017)

I am today hallucinating a bit, since I believed that the different versions that were of *MX500* were the same and I asked for another pair that arrived today (red + white wire) and I have taken an unpleasant surprise since it does not sound like *EMX500*

- *EMX500*, I bought it first *HERE* and it sounds great (good bass, medium and treble)
- *MX500* the second I bought it *HERE* and it does not sound or resemble (escased of bass, mediocre medium and treble)

Well, be careful where you ask for the crown jewel *EMX500*


----------



## waynes world

jogawag said:


> That is correct. It is impossible to expect ClieOS's efforts only...
> Although it is not the sound quality ranking of earbuds that I want, the popularity ranking of earbuds website has  been created, like below.
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/EarbudsAnonymous/permalink/1825966607664865/



Thanks. I just got accepted into the group, so I'll be able to check that out now.


----------



## Dark Helmet

snip3r77 said:


> Thinking about Graphene or EMX500 or Qian 69. Coming from the Vido.
> Which one should I try? Looking for a more treble and bass improvement ( correct/punchier not bloaty ).


Graphne.


----------



## Saoshyant

Decided I needed some Pink Floyd today, and was listening with the Monoprice M560.  As I got a few tracks in at Us and Them I decided I needed to make things right and grabbed my CampFred.  I figured the original CF had been neglected since I got CF2 so it's getting a workout now.  Of all my gear, the CampFreds for Floyd can only be outdone by my ZMF Ori, and maybe my HD700.  I'd honestly take these over my IE800 for this album.


----------



## theoutsider (Sep 22, 2017)

jogawag said:


> https://www.facebook.com/groups/EarbudsAnonymous/permalink/1825966607664865/


I am surprised that hi-z 32 is leading.


----------



## bud11 (Sep 22, 2017)

hi guys , help me decide between ty awk314p and edifier h185, which one is sweeter (i mean the music flow through the earbud have analog feel on it)?


----------



## acap13

bud11 said:


> hi guys , help me decide between ty awk314p and edifier h185, which one is sweeter (i mean the music flow through the earbud have analog feel on it)?



My sweet bet goes to awk314p..


----------



## nick n

Santojob said:


> I am today hallucinating a bit, since I believed that the different versions that were of *MX500* were the same and I asked for another pair that arrived today (red + white wire) and I have taken an unpleasant surprise since it does not sound like *EMX500*
> 
> - *EMX500*, I bought it first *HERE* and it sounds great (good bass, medium and treble)
> - *MX500* the second I bought it *HERE* and it does not sound or resemble (escased of bass, mediocre medium and treble)
> ...



Will see if the ebay ones correspond to general "normal" impressions in here
Figuring out all these various earbuds is a bit of a challenge/all over the map. 

Thanks for that post.


----------



## jogawag

bud11 said:


> hi guys , help me decide between ty awk314p and edifier h185, which one is sweeter (i mean the music flow through the earbud have analog feel on it)?





acap13 said:


> My sweet bet goes to awk314p..


Coincidentally I have both earbuds.
Imo, ty awk 314p sounds sweeter, edifier h185 sounds mid bass more powerfully.


----------



## bud11

acap13 said:


> My sweet bet goes to awk314p..





jogawag said:


> Coincidentally I have both earbuds.
> Imo, ty awk 314p sounds sweeter, edifier h185 sounds mid bass more powerfully.



thank you guys, how about hisoundaudio hsa-e351 and 1more piston EO320? do they fit for my "analog" taste ?


----------



## jogawag

bud11 said:


> thank you guys, how about hisoundaudio hsa-e351 and 1more piston EO320? do they fit for my "analog" taste ?


I do not have both earbuds. So, it is unknown.


----------



## golov17

bud11 said:


> thank you guys, how about hisoundaudio hsa-e351 do they fit for my "analog" taste ?


 yes


----------



## golov17

cursing said:


> I am surprised that hi-z 32 is leading.


I think, its about first version..


----------



## redkingjoe

jogawag said:


> I desire Moondrop Liebesleid arriving today to be my favorite champion earbuds. If so, I will add it to the ranking and vote for it.



I dislike the inferior 4n cable on liebesleid.

I'm waiting for a mono crystal 8n occ version from them.


----------



## thelonius97

Is the qian69 new or was it always there? Also, any opinions on it?


----------



## golov17

redkingjoe said:


> I dislike the inferior 4n cable on liebesleid.
> 
> I'm waiting for a mono crystal 8n occ version from them.


http://www.fujiya-avic.jp/products/detail144504.html


----------



## waynes world

Dark Helmet said:


> Graphne.



Yup. Damn they're good.


----------



## euge

golov17 said:


> http://www.fujiya-avic.jp/products/detail144504.html



Are these good? couldn't find any reviews, reminds me of the 1more quad design.


----------



## jogawag

euge said:


> Are these good? couldn't find any reviews, reminds me of the 1more quad design.


MoonDrop Liebesleid has a resolution above the level of Rose Mojito, but the separation of sound is natural.
Even though the high-middle sound has a very transparent feeling, it does not feel stinging. And the bass has a sufficient amount of attack feeling to some extent.
I feel that MoonDrop Liebesleid has one of the best sound quality among the earbuds' sound I have heard so far.
(I was excited and may have praised it, too much ...)


----------



## jogawag (Sep 23, 2017)

redkingjoe said:


> I dislike the inferior 4n cable on liebesleid.
> 
> I'm waiting for a mono crystal 8n occ version from them.


Does the sound quality of the earbuds change greatly depending on whether the copper material of the silver-plated copper cable is "4N OFC" or "8N OCC"?
I didn't think about it so much.


----------



## snip3r77

jogawag said:


> MoonDrop Liebesleid has a resolution above the level of Rose Mojito, but the separation of sound is natural.
> Even though the high-middle sound has a very transparent feeling, it does not feel stinging. And the bass has a sufficient amount of attack feeling to some extent.
> I feel that MoonDrop Liebesleid has one of the best sound quality among the earbuds' sound I have heard so far.
> (I was excited and may have praised it, too much ...)


Is this the best of the totl? Buy this and move on?


----------



## theoutsider

snip3r77 said:


> Is this the best of the totl? Buy this and move on?


It certainly is one of the most expensive earbuds out there.


----------



## euge

jogawag said:


> MoonDrop Liebesleid has a resolution above the level of Rose Mojito, but the separation of sound is natural.
> Even though the high-middle sound has a very transparent feeling, it does not feel stinging. And the bass has a sufficient amount of attack feeling to some extent.
> I feel that MoonDrop Liebesleid has one of the best sound quality among the earbuds' sound I have heard so far.
> (I was excited and may have praised it, too much ...)



Thanks I might pick one up, wanted to get the mojito but wasn't willing to spend that much on a rose product with their poor QC record. Ended up with the masya instead.
Liebesleid build definitely looks better than the mojito.


----------



## jogawag (Sep 23, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> Is this the best of the totl? Buy this and move on?





cursing said:


> It certainly is one of the most expensive earbuds out there.



First of all, what is "totl"? I am sorry but I am a novice in this thread, so I do not know that.
I will proceed with thinking that "totl" is probably "THE CHAMPIONS".

If you want an earbuds with superior resolution and beautiful sound quality like Rose Mojito, I recommend this.

If you want an earbuds that is vibrant and bassy like K's500, or if you want an earbuds with a sound balance or density like Shozy BK, you may think once more.

Since I do not have Rose Masya, I can not reply if you want this versatile type of earbuds.


----------



## redkingjoe

golov17 said:


> http://www.fujiya-avic.jp/products/detail144504.html



So they use 4n ofc cable thickly plated with silver.

First, it's a 4n ofc. 4n is very very old technology and extremely cheap. Back in 1985, Sony started to use class 1 4N Lc-ofc For the top model earbud. 4n ofc was for lower model. 

Second, they didn't declare the purity of the silver. If the silver were high purity, they would have declared it as a selling point. They only declare a thick silver coating. Pure silve is even more expensive than copper. I won't believe they would use purity that is more than 3N. 

The cable is not of high standard. I want better.

I'm waiting for a 5n-8n: lc-ofc, pc occ, or mono-crystal, single crystal cable etc version of Liebesleid. 

One reason that Shozy BK sounds great is the single crystal high purity copper cable, which is truly high-end. The Shozy BK's cable is more expensive than the housing and speaker added together. Many of the US$1000 IEM is still using cable that is inferior to Shozy BK cable.


----------



## jogawag

euge said:


> Thanks I might pick one up, wanted to get the mojito but wasn't willing to spend that much on a rose product with their poor QC record. Ended up with the masya instead.
> Liebesleid build definitely looks better than the mojito.


As you say, because Rose Mojito is plastic and fragile due to the 2 Pin connection cable, MoonDrop Liebesleid stands out for its simple and robust structure, which is made of metal and can not be cable modified.


----------



## Vinni Sanders

Moondrop Namless is very nice. Clear, crisp, with nice airy and wide soundstage. Not bass-heavy but they outline the basses so you would not miss something in music. Very nice.
And surprisingly comfortable in ears.
---


----------



## mbwilson111

Vinni Sanders said:


> Moondrop Namless is very nice. Clear, crisp, with nice airy and wide soundstage. Not bass-heavy but they outline the basses so you would not miss something in music. Very nice.
> And surprisingly comfortable in ears.



Thank you for your impressions. Sounds perfect for me. I am waiting for mine to arrive.


----------



## theoutsider

Vinni Sanders said:


> And surprisingly comfortable in ears.


It is even more comfortable if you take off the foams


----------



## ClieOS

Some of you might have read too much into spec as well as being too much of a cable believer - how do anyone of us able to tell a honest, good quality 4N OCC from a falsely advertised "8N" OCC? I have never seen certification of any kind when it comes to purity claim made by any headphone maker. Given it is almost impossible for 99.999999% (=8N, put intended) of us to verify any of these cable claims, does it really that important for it to be 4N or 8N? Is it because there's a real difference, or is it that we just really want them to have some justifiable difference?


----------



## redkingjoe

jogawag said:


> Does the sound quality of the earbuds change greatly depending on whether the copper material of the silver-plated copper cable is "4N OFC" or "8N OCC"?
> I didn't think about it so much.



For a 4N cable, there' s quite a huge difference in sound quality for "ofc" and LC-ofc, pcocc, single crystal occ etc. 

Simply put, ordinary OFC 4n cable has a lot of impurities  and gaps inside the conductors. Signal will be downgraded. The better the quality of the source the more revealing to the inadequacy. I attached a ofc vs occ for you to appreciate the difference. And than most of the better cable use single crystal, telfon insulation, litz construction to avoid sound degradation.

Basically, earbud is a combination of speakers, ear pad, housing, cables, soldering materials, soldering skills and connectors.


----------



## redkingjoe (Sep 23, 2017)

ClieOS said:


> Some of you might have read too much into spec as well as being too much of a cable believer - how do anyone of us able to tell a honest, good quality 4N OCC from a falsely advertised "8N" OCC? I have never seen certification of any kind when it comes to purity claim made by any headphone maker. Given it is almost impossible for 99.999999% (=8N, put intended) of us to verify any of these cable claims, does it really that important for it to be 4N or 8N? Is it because there's a real difference, or is it that we just really want them to have some justifiable difference?



From 1985 onwards, Sony makes very clear declaration of of class 1 LC-ofc for top model. You can search mar-e484, e464, e888, e868 for example.

For the lower model, 838, 828, 818, 808, Sony won't tell you how low the grade of the material are


----------



## theoutsider

jogawag said:


> First of all, what is "totl"? I am sorry but I am a novice in this thread, so I do not know that.
> I will proceed with thinking that "totl" is probably "THE CHAMPIONS".


TOTL is the acronym of Top Of The Line.


----------



## jogawag (Sep 23, 2017)

redkingjoe said:


> For a 4N cable, there' s quite a huge difference in sound quality for "ofc" and LC-ofc, pcocc, single crystal occ etc.
> Simply put, ordinary OFC 4n cable has a lot of impurities  and gaps inside the conductors. Signal will be downgraded. The better the quality of the source the more revealing to the inadequacy. I attached a ofc vs occ for you to appreciate the difference. And than most of the better cable use single crystal, telfon insulation, litz construction to avoid sound degradation.
> Basically, earbud is a combination of speakers, ear pad, housing, cables, soldering materials, soldering skills and connectors.


Thank you for the polite explanation.


----------



## jogawag

cursing said:


> TOTL is the acronym of Top Of The Line.


Thank you for the explanation.


----------



## ClieOS

redkingjoe said:


> From 1985 onwards, Sony makes very clear declaration of of class 1 LC-ofc for top model. You can search mar-e484, e464, e888, e868 for example.



We are not talking about what Sony made 30 yrs ago, we are talking about what are available from the Chinese earbuds maker today on Taobao or Aliexpress, which make up the bulk of all the good earbuds in the current market. The matter of fact is that most of us have no readily available method to verify whatever purity claim any headphone maker and cable seller are making, so how do you know a particular 8N cable is better than 4N cable when you have no idea whether those claim is true or not? What if those 8N cable is really just 4N cable and the seller/maker is just making number up because he knows no one will bother to check it? My point is, I'll rather have a honest 4N cable over a questionable 8N cable, as long as it gets the job done - and that matter of fact is, regardless of whether MoonDrop liebesleid's cable is 4N or 8N, it is still one of the finest sounding earbuds in the current market, and that is much more real that some 30 yrs old out-of-products earbuds from a company that has long quit the earbuds market or a 8N cable that the buyer has no idea is real or not.


----------



## mochill

how is the Sony mdr e838 or the rp hj335


----------



## Trippin

Any impressions on the Campfred 2? Whatever ive searched for makes it seem like a good purchase but ive been holding off since its such a small brand. Any other  earbuds which are better for the price? I enjoy a warmer sig with mellow treble.


----------



## mbwilson111

jogawag said:


> Coincidentally I have both earbuds.
> Imo, ty awk 314p sounds sweeter, edifier h185 sounds mid bass more powerfully.



Because of this thread, I now have this coming...AWK-314P.  A reviewer said it is very comfortable.  I have some difficulty with the ones that use a monk type housing.  They just kind of sit there almost ready to fall out.


----------



## jogawag (Sep 23, 2017)

mbwilson111 said:


> Because of this thread, I now have this coming...AWK-314P.  A reviewer said it is very comfortable.  I have some difficulty with the ones that use a monk type housing.  They just kind of sit there almost ready to fall out.



AWK-314P is not a monk (or mx500) type housing. It is called AKG K314P type housing which diameter is almost same. But the thickness of the housing is a little thin.
I think that if you search on "AWK-314P" as a keyword on Google and look at the image tab, you will understand the feeling of thinness.
If the size of the diameter is so big that it falls off your ear, I think edifier h185 will fit you more because it is smaller.
The edifier h185 is not so tight sound, and a little sweet sound. So you need not worry.


----------



## mbwilson111

jogawag said:


> AWK-314P is not a monk (or mx500) type housing.


I know...that is why I ordered the awk.  I think it will fit.


----------



## jogawag

mbwilson111 said:


> I know...that is why I ordered the awk.  I think it will fit.


That's right. So there is not any problem.
TY Hi-Z AWK-314P has earned 7 votes in Earbuds Anonymous's popularity ranking for new products, right?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/EarbudsAnonymous/permalink/1825966607664865/


----------



## snip3r77

jogawag said:


> That's right. So there is not any problem.
> TY Hi-Z AWK-314P has earned 7 votes in Earbuds Anonymous's popularity ranking for new products, right?
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/EarbudsAnonymous/permalink/1825966607664865/


Why TY Hi-Z 32 is so popular?


----------



## theoutsider

snip3r77 said:


> Why TY Hi-Z 32 is so popular?


I have the same question


----------



## jogawag (Sep 23, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> Why TY Hi-Z 32 is so popular?





cursing said:


> I have the same question


Mr.ClieOS commented that
"TY Hi-Z 32ohm is balanced tilting toward V-shaped sounding. Good dynamic. Mid is a little on the dry side, with slightly grainy upper vocal, otherwise a pretty solid all-arounder.".

So I think that the high popularity is because the performance is good and the price (about $4) is very cheap.
I also have this one already.


----------



## snip3r77

jogawag said:


> Mr.ClieOS commented that
> "TY Hi-Z 32ohm is balanced tilting toward V-shaped sounding. Good dynamic. Mid is a little on the dry side, with slightly grainy upper vocal, otherwise a pretty solid all-arounder.".
> 
> So I think that the high popularity is because the performance is good and the price (about $4) is very cheap.
> I also have this one already.


I have the vido, should I skip TY Hi-Z32 ?


----------



## jogawag

snip3r77 said:


> I have the vido, should I skip TY Hi-Z32 ?


You should better buy it, if you don't have it yet and you have enough money.


----------



## RuFrost (Sep 23, 2017)

I have got the issue with the fir of earbuds! When I press earbuds to my ears I hear subbass, full sound and all sounds more clearly. The picture is more full and sound is 10000% more preferable in comparison with regular fit. On the tracks where bass seems weak, if I press them to my ear, it appears as hard and amazing!!! I have accessories from Ve Expack and nothing from there is working for me. The best quality I got currently with donuts foams. Earhooks is amazing idea, but the area of earbuds where the sound come from, partially become closed and the sound-picture becomes cut, not full. It is so, because the circle of earbud is larger than ear canal, so when the earbuds are pressed by earhooks, somehow the sound has limited access to the ear. So weird, because when I press earbuds with donut foam - everything sounds as it must. I tried all different combinations possible (from Ve expack) donuts under earhooks, thin foams under earhooks, silicone rings outside of donuts and thin foams, as well as inside. Nothing works((
3) My question is how my problem can be solved? What are the possible twiks\tips which can help me to get identical seal with the one when I press earbuds?
HELP PLEASE!!!
P.s: Btw, I'm not trying to make the earbuds to sound or be like iems. No yuin ok1 format. I'm talking only about right tight fit. I'm dreaming something like Audeze isine20 or LCD i4 has. I own Sennheiser omx50 which is broken unfortunately - probably right driver died or the cable has problem with its connection there. I was able probable to make the picture of what I'm dreaming about to get with any type of earbud. But this arc is installed in the shell of omx50. Audio-Technica ATH-EC7 SV and B&O A8 Earset 3I have the same conceptual structure!!!
My ideal is:


----------



## Raketen

RuFrost said:


> I have got the issue with the fir of earbuds! When I press earbuds to my ears I hear subbass, full sound and all sounds more clearly. The picture is more full and sound is 10000% more preferable in comparison with regular fit. On the tracks where bass seems weak, if I press them to my ear, it appears as hard and amazing!!! I have accessories from Ve Expack and nothing from there is working for me. The best quality I got currently with donuts foams. Earhooks is amazing idea, but the area of earbuds where the sound come from, partially become closed and the sound-picture becomes cut, not full. It is so, because the circle of earbud is larger than ear canal, so when the earbuds are pressed by earhooks, somehow the sound has limited access to the ear. So weird, because when I press earbuds with donut foam - everything sounds as it must.
> 3) My question is how my problem can be solved? What are the possible twiks\tips which can help me to get identical seal with the one when I press earbuds?
> HELP PLEASE!!!
> P.s: Btw, I'm not trying to make the earbuds to sound or be like iems. No yuin ok1 format. I'm talking only about right tight fit. I'm dreaming something like Audeze isine20 or LCD i4 has. I own Sennheiser omx50 which is broken unfortunately - probably right driver died or the cable has problem with its connection there. I was able probable to make the picture of what I'm dreaming about to get with any type of earbud. But this arc is installed in the shell of omx50. Audio-Technica ATH-EC7 SV and B&O A8 Earset 3I have the same conceptual structure!!!



I have seen some people here use multiple foam layers to help with this- maybe multiple layers and a denser foam than the EXPack like the Heigi might help? Instead of earhooks you could possibly use a moldable material (like sugru maybe) to make a shape that positions it better for your ear? I seem to remember someone on reddit doing this with the Baldoor earbuds.


----------



## RuFrost

Raketen said:


> I have seen some people here use multiple foam layers to help with this- maybe multiple layers and a denser foam than the EXPack like the Heigi might help? Instead of earhooks you could possibly use a moldable material (like sugru maybe) to make a shape that positions it better for your ear? I seem to remember someone on reddit doing this with the Baldoor earbuds.


I tried all different combinations possible (from Ve expack) donuts under earhooks, thin foams under earhooks, silicone rings outside of donuts and thin foams, as well as inside. Nothing works((
I guess, I need something additional which will press it to the ear. Added some photos.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 23, 2017)

RuFrost said:


> I tried all different combinations possible (from Ve expack) donuts under earhooks, thin foams under earhooks, silicone rings outside of donuts and thin foams, as well as inside. Nothing works((
> I guess, I need something additional which will press it to the ear. Added some photos.



I find sometimes a less powerful driver will sound acceptable and even very good if you apply pressure to seal off the gap completely. You are in some ways creating an IEM seal affect rather than the open airy nature of most earbuds which do not completely seal the sound.

The solution is usually you buy an earbud that has enough presence to generate a good sound with a moderate seal. Then it's just a matter of fine tuning your foams/earhooks for comfort and best possible sound but without the need to worry about pressing it tightly to the ear with is almost impossible with most earbuds.

Only thing I can suggest it to add a few thin layers of electrical tape around the earbud shell (a more customisable alternative to silicone ring) which helped me seal some of my earbuds better. You'd think a larger earbud diameter wouldn't work but it seems that sometimes it's less about the size of the earbud and more about how your ear grips the shell. MX500 shells grip really poorly for me, thus me not getting a good seal with them.

You can start with a thin layer of tape about 3-4mm think and wrap it twice around the earbud shell. Then take a larger piece about 5-6mm and wrap it around the first piece once however make sure the 5-6mm piece more towards the back of the shell and not going over the front grill of the earbud.

I've done this with my tomahawks earbud to great effect, this of course works for my ears but I'd imagine you could fine tune it to yours also hopefully.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 23, 2017)

Here are some pictures to better explain what I mean.
 

Obviously you put a foam over that for comfort and seal. This is only to create a better grip of the shell to your ear.


----------



## tinkertailor

snip3r77 said:


> I have the vido, should I skip TY Hi-Z32 ?


From my experience, the Vido has nice bass and great sound sig but sounds slightly distorted compared to Ty Hi-Z 32 — again, just my experience. It's just a great all round bud with decent bass. I recommend it. If the emx500 wasn't so fragile i would say skip both vido and ty and go straight for it.


----------



## seanc6441

tinkertailor said:


> From my experience, the Vido has nice bass and great sound sig but sounds slightly distorted compared to Ty Hi-Z 32 — again, just my experience. It's just a great all round bud with decent bass. I recommend it. If the emx500 wasn't so fragile i would say skip both vido and ty and go straight for it.



I got the TY-32S and was not very impressed. Maybe I got a defect but my good the mids were so grainy and dull. The red cable was terrible too.

Maybe the normal version is much better.


----------



## tinkertailor

seanc6441 said:


> I got the TY-32S and was not very impressed. Maybe I got a defect but my good the mids were so grainy and dull. The red cable was terrible too.
> 
> Maybe the normal version is much better.


Nah, i wouldn't bother. No other versions will be significantly better I would imagine. Again, just my opinion and guess.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 23, 2017)

tinkertailor said:


> Nah, i wouldn't bother. No other versions will be significantly better I would imagine. Again, just my opinion and guess.



Maybe that bud was budget king before but I when I finally get my EMX500 and Vido for testing I'm fairly confident they will be much better. Particularly the EMX500 if it's not a bad one. Can't wait to hear this bud.


----------



## snip3r77

seanc6441 said:


> Maybe that bud was budget king before but I when I finally get my EMX500 and Vido for testing I'm fairly confident they will be much better. Particularly the EMX500 if it's not a bad one. Can't wait to hear this bud.


I’d skip the TY then


----------



## seanc6441

snip3r77 said:


> I’d skip the TY then



Yeah honestly I think that $10-30 sweet spot that the EMX500 and graphene etc hit are the way to go if you're looking for good sounding buds on a budget. Anything lower can still be good but not really gonna blow you away when you compare them to the best of the sub $50 buds.

Vido/Monk/TY-32 are still options for travel/gym/outside use though maybe if your concious about damage or your buds getting stolen... which probably won't happen to these buds as they look cheap. lol


----------



## seanc6441

I would love to try the monk + espresso version though. Just out of curiosity to see how it compares to the normal version (which I have) and find good but lacking in bass.

Apparently the espresso cable version does have a better SQ and more bass presence slightly.

It's not 5$ though that's for sure. Which puts it up against EMX500 and Graphene in terms of cost and thus needs to be able to stand up to this level of earbud.

So I'll probably pass on it for now.


----------



## Saoshyant

The espresso doesn't significantly change the sound by any means, nor does SPC.  A monk is a monk, no more no less.


----------



## seanc6441

Saoshyant said:


> The espresso doesn't significantly change the sound by any means, nor does SPC.  A monk is a monk, no more no less.


Have you tried all 3 versions? Curious about why the other versions are fairly more expensive.

Can you tell me what is the benefit of the espresso and spc version then? Is it just a cable change? With slightly perceived sound benefits?


----------



## Saoshyant

I own all three and it's all just cable change as well as a jack change on espresso.  Any sound changes are relatively minimal.


----------



## seanc6441

Saoshyant said:


> I own all three and it's all just cable change as well as a jack change on espresso.  Any sound changes are relatively minimal.


Ok I see. I guess if you really love the VE Monk + sound you could go for a more expensive premium version. Although I feel like the main pull of the bud is it's price/performance ratio. I'll pass then.

Thanks for the insight!


----------



## springbay

snip3r77 said:


> Is this the best of the totl? Buy this and move on?



It would be terrific if there was one pair of buds to rule them all. The closest I've come are the Cypherus Audio CAX Black.
But the phrase "Buy this and move on", in my bud centered world rather means: these sound great, now what to order next?


----------



## snip3r77

seanc6441 said:


> Yeah honestly I think that $10-30 sweet spot that the EMX500 and graphene etc hit are the way to go if you're looking for good sounding buds on a budget. Anything lower can still be good but not really gonna blow you away when you compare them to the best of the sub $50 buds.
> 
> Vido/Monk/TY-32 are still options for travel/gym/outside use though maybe if your concious about damage or your buds getting stolen... which probably won't happen to these buds as they look cheap. lol



I’d be looking at graphene as mx500 qc is questionable


----------



## snip3r77

springbay said:


> It would be terrific if there was one pair of buds to rule them all. The closest I've come are the Cypherus Audio CAX Black.
> But the phrase "Buy this and move on", in my bud centered world rather means: these sound great, now what to order next?


You can save up for a totl open back headphones


----------



## theoutsider

snip3r77 said:


> I have the vido, should I skip TY Hi-Z32 ?


I have both vido and generation one ty hi-z 32. I'd say don't bother to get hiz32, it sounds grainy.


----------



## tinkertailor

BTW , all this talk about cheap buds, I feel the FAAEAL 32 ohm are criminally neglected. They aren't the best at anything, but a close second at everything ( in their price range). They make fantastic all-rounders with a nice warm sound and good durability. I would take them over monk, ty 32, and even vido. And this is still my favourite cable ..very durable.
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...MX500-fone-de-ouvido/1727211_32711687328.html


----------



## theoutsider

tinkertailor said:


> BTW , all this talk about cheap buds, I feel the FAAEAL 32 ohm are criminally neglected. They aren't the best at anything, but a close second at everything ( in their price range). They make fantastic all-rounders with a nice warm sound and good durability. I would take them over monk, ty 32, and even vido. And this is still my favourite cable ..very durable.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...MX500-fone-de-ouvido/1727211_32711687328.html


FOREAL?!! Pun intended


----------



## ForceMajeure (Sep 24, 2017)

RuFrost said:


> I have got the issue with the fir of earbuds! When I press earbuds to my ears I hear subbass, full sound and all sounds more clearly. The picture is more full and sound is 10000% more preferable in comparison with regular fit. On the tracks where bass seems weak, if I press them to my ear, it appears as hard and amazing!!! I have accessories from Ve Expack and nothing from there is working for me. The best quality I got currently with donuts foams. Earhooks is amazing idea, but the area of earbuds where the sound come from, partially become closed and the sound-picture becomes cut, not full. It is so, because the circle of earbud is larger than ear canal, so when the earbuds are pressed by earhooks, somehow the sound has limited access to the ear. So weird, because when I press earbuds with donut foam - everything sounds as it must. I tried all different combinations possible (from Ve expack) donuts under earhooks, thin foams under earhooks, silicone rings outside of donuts and thin foams, as well as inside. Nothing works((
> 3) My question is how my problem can be solved? What are the possible twiks\tips which can help me to get identical seal with the one when I press earbuds?
> HELP PLEASE!!!
> P.s: Btw, I'm not trying to make the earbuds to sound or be like iems. No yuin ok1 format. I'm talking only about right tight fit. I'm dreaming something like Audeze isine20 or LCD i4 has. I own Sennheiser omx50 which is broken unfortunately - probably right driver died or the cable has problem with its connection there. I was able probable to make the picture of what I'm dreaming about to get with any type of earbud. But this arc is installed in the shell of omx50. Audio-Technica ATH-EC7 SV and B&O A8 Earset 3I have the same conceptual structure!!!
> My ideal is:



This is the same for everybody. You cannot achieve the sound of earbuds pressed against your ears with any conventional foams, hooks or whatever...This is how earbuds sound.

 if you want to have the same sound as if you are pressing them, use tape and tape them to you ears. I am not joking. You'll look dumb but no way around that.


----------



## Frederick Wang

Treble and female vocals are sublime on Toneking TP16...


----------



## ricesteam

I have started the culling...in an effort to reduce my collection and to fund my other hobbies outside of audiophile, I am selling my Campfred 2.  The decision was not an easy one, but one I must take.  I have made a post in the For Sale section of the forums.


----------



## waynes world (Sep 24, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> *Yeah honestly I think that $10-30 sweet spot that the EMX500 and graphene etc hit are the way to go if you're looking for good sounding buds on a budget.* Anything lower can still be good but not really gonna blow you away when you compare them to the best of the sub $50 buds.



As of now, I would have to agree with you! They both are really quite great. From what ClieOS said, the Moondrop Nameless might very well be another contender (and costs a bit less than the graphenes):
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1536#post-13729851


----------



## Stevenpi1992

tinkertailor said:


> BTW , all this talk about cheap buds, I feel the FAAEAL 32 ohm are criminally neglected. They aren't the best at anything, but a close second at everything ( in their price range). They make fantastic all-rounders with a nice warm sound and good durability. I would take them over monk, ty 32, and even vido. And this is still my favourite cable ..very durable.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...MX500-fone-de-ouvido/1727211_32711687328.html



I skipped the 32 and went for the 64 ohm. I'm still in the process of breaking them in, but so far I'm liking them a lot. I got them for $7.77 on Amazon with prime shipping. First impressions are great. The extra $2 is worth it over something like the Monk+ imo.


----------



## Tarnum

Just received EMX500, must say that it's a great buy, solid all-rounded earbud. Just compared to Ixtin EV-2: EMX500 bass is bigger with more rumble, sound-stage is wider, just a little bit colder presentation, while Ixtin EV-2 is more mid-forward, clarity is better (in small margin), fuller, lively presentation (very clearly) and more immersive sound-stage. Both of them are great earbuds that will not disappointed anyone IN THEIR PRICE RANGE.  
Imagine EMX500 likes EO320 with better clarity, more energy and Ixtin EV-2 likes RX-1 with bigger and more slamming bass, a little bit more treble.  
EMX500 is appropriate for ones who seeking bass slam in earbud while not sacrificing clarity.  
Ixtin EV-2 is appropriate for ones who loving forward presentation with nice mid, full sound while keeping enough bass amount.
Recommend to everyone these two buds. 
However, microphonics of EMX500 and big housing diameter of Ixtin EV-2 are issues.


----------



## snip3r77

waynes world said:


> As of now, I would have to agree with you! They both are really quite great. From what ClieOS said, the Moondrop Nameless might very well be another contender (and costs a bit less than the graphenes):
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1536#post-13729851


It seems like he is hinting get the nameless or go for vx pro. No half measures


----------



## Makahl

I got EMX500 and Vido today in my mail today and I'm a little disappointed with the QC of EMX500 and Vido. As my routine after receiving an earbud, I like to use those tones to check if there's something wrong with the drivers: http://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_subwooferharmonicdistortion.php

And all tones below 50Hz I can hear some blown tone or distortion over a linear sound. It's pretty clear when I'm listening to some electronic music too. Does someone get a similar problem?


----------



## snip3r77

Makahl said:


> I got EMX500 and Vido today in my mail today and I'm a little disappointed with the QC of EMX500 and Vido. As my routine after receiving an earbud, I like to use those tones to check if there's something wrong with the drivers: http://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_subwooferharmonicdistortion.php
> 
> And all tones below 50Hz I can hear some blown tone or distortion over a linear sound. It's pretty clear when I'm listening to some electronic music too. Does someone get a similar problem?


I got the vido, no problem for me


----------



## CharlesRievone

snip3r77 said:


> Why TY Hi-Z 32 is so popular?


I created that poll last March 2017, back when not a lot of people have owned the EMX500 and Vido and all of the new good budget buds that we have now.
I will be locking that thread when the month ends and will create a new one for October 2017 and will do a monthly poll onwards


----------



## 93EXCivic

tinkertailor said:


> From my experience, the Vido has nice bass and great sound sig but sounds slightly distorted compared to Ty Hi-Z 32 — again, just my experience. It's just a great all round bud with decent bass. I recommend it. If the emx500 wasn't so fragile i would say skip both vido and ty and go straight for it.



I personally found the opposite to be true. I thought the bass on the Ty Hi-Z 32 sounded distorted and bleed into the mids.


----------



## HungryPanda

no problem with my EMX500, still waiting on my Vido to arrive


----------



## 93EXCivic (Sep 25, 2017)

Yesterday I ordered Campfred2s. Super excited for them to come in and get a taste of TOTL earbuds.

Just for fun below is my journey through (>$20) budget buds from favorites down.

1. Yinman 150ohm- These are by a long way my favorites so far. They have great clarity, tight bass and a great richness. The instruments and voices sound thick and rich. I found these work best with donut foams. My only complaint is I wish the highs had a little more sparkle.

2. Yinman 64ohm- These were the first buds that really satisfied me. To me, the sound signature was similar to the 150ohm but with a tick less clarity. I am surprised more people don't seem like they have bought them.

3. NiceHCK PK2- I found these buds to have excellent mids and highs but to me the bass was a bit lacking compared to the Yinman products.

4. Vido- I found these to be quite a good bud. The hype is right on this one. A steal for $4. I was happy with these but I tested them back to back with Yinman's buds and found they lack the clarity and richness of those two.

5. T-Music V2- These were decent. I found that the clarity was a step up from the buds I had bought previously but they are kind of boring and lacking musically.

6. Monk+- This was my first exposure to the world of decent earbuds. I like the mids and highs but the bass to my sounded distorted and weedy. It was too distracting for me to really enjoy this bud.

7. T-Music V1- I found the sound signature similar to the Monk+ but maybe a touch better bass response. The reason they are behind the Monk+ is it seems like there are pretty large QC problems. It seems like the sound signature is all over the place from reading this forum and mine came in wired backwards (the L marked earbud was R and vice versa).

8. SHE3800 and Qian39- I found these buds completely forgettable.

9. Hi-Z 32- I did not like these buds at all. I found the bass to be distorted and I found it to run into the mid range and overwhelm the rest of the frequency response. I

In order of how I bought them (from first to newest), Monk+, T-Music V1, Ty Hi-Z 32, SHE3800, V2, Yinman 64 ohm, Qian39, Yinman 150ohm, PK2, Vido. I have **** Pt15s on the way but my experience with budget buds is part of what has pushed me towards TOTL buds. I am planning on trying Yinman 600 ohm, K's 300 ohm Samsura, Shozy BK and Rose Masya at some point. I will probably try out some more budget and mid tier buds along the way too (Moondrop Nameless and Ourart Ti7 are one my wanted to try list).


----------



## 93EXCivic

My Walnut V2 came with a case but my Zishan Z2 did not. Does anyone know where I can find just the case that came with the Walnut?


----------



## euge

93EXCivic said:


> Yesterday I ordered Campfred2s. Super excited for them to come in and get a taste of TOTL earbuds.
> 
> Just for fun below is my journey through (>$20) budget buds from favorites down.
> 
> ...



Nice, how much were they (Campfred2)?


----------



## 93EXCivic

euge said:


> Nice, how much were they (Campfred2)?



$200 plus shipping.


----------



## Danneq

93EXCivic said:


> Yesterday I ordered Campfred2s. Super excited for them to come in and get a taste of TOTL earbuds.
> 
> Just for fun below is my journey through (>$20) budget buds from favorites down.
> 
> ...




I haven't heard CampFred 2 but own and love CampFred (plus 2 more Cypherus earbuds). I can really recommend Shozy BK/Stardust. It's a slightly different flavor from CampFred but just as excellent.


----------



## euge

Danneq said:


> I haven't heard CampFred 2 but own and love CampFred (plus 2 more Cypherus earbuds). I can really recommend Shozy BK/Stardust. It's a slightly different flavor from CampFred but just as excellent.



How do the sound stages compare? Was thinking of getting the Moondrop Liebesleid since I love the Masya.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Danneq said:


> I haven't heard CampFred 2 but own and love CampFred (plus 2 more Cypherus earbuds). I can really recommend Shozy BK/Stardust. It's a slightly different flavor from CampFred but just as excellent.



I've actually been thinking of re-ordering the Shozy BK, but in balanced! I miss them and would love to hear how much they improve with DX200's AMP3. I feel like they should be added back into my top 5 and just place Vido in it's own "Honorable Mentions" field or something.


----------



## 93EXCivic

Danneq said:


> I haven't heard CampFred 2 but own and love CampFred (plus 2 more Cypherus earbuds). I can really recommend Shozy BK/Stardust. It's a slightly different flavor from CampFred but just as excellent.



Which other two Cypherus earbuds do you own? I ended up really struggling between ordering the BK and Campfred2s


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 25, 2017)

So I received the Vido, DIY PK2 and Auglamour RX1 today which I'm excited about!

The vido is excellent for €3, truly impressive value for money. However I'm not quite sure it suits my preference as it's bass is just a slight bit boomy/overpowering and the mids are not exactly crystal clear. I think these can be fine tuned to become very capable buds with some EQing and the right source (energetic/bright source to counteract the boomy bass and emphasis on lower frequencies). My only complaint is they are not as clear sounding as the monks in the mid region. Other than that I cannot complain much for a earbud in this price range.

The DIY PK2 is a weird one. Firstly the are so easy to drive, my iphone was on 30-40% volume and these were LOUD! Secondly is the cable, it's delicate so you don't wanna be rough with these buds. This is my first bud in the PK Housing, one thing I noticed (other than the exceptional comfort) is that the front grill seems to have an odd layout. There are vents on both the left and right, going from almost the center of the bud to the outer diamter. However there are no holes in the bottom and top halves. The sound seems congested in some ways and my suspicion is that the grill or housing is causing this. The vocal sound is both detailed and muffled at the same time oddly enough. I can feel the energetic mids and I can hear the detail in the vocals but it sounds congested/muffled somehow. It feels like these buds are waiting to be unleashed somehow. Maybe my unit is faulty? Has anyone else tried these buds and what is the clarity like? I'm so tempted to remove the front grill and poke extra holes in it to fill the grill out evenly, but I may end up botching the sound altogether? Or possibly add remove foam/cotton from the back of the driver to see how it affects the sound? Anyway I'm not gonna give up on these just yet because I think they have huge potential to be great, they just don't reach that greatness in it's current configuration.

Finally the RX1. These buds fit a niche purpose for me as a night listening/audiobook/podcast earbud. The comfort, build quality and inline controls are ideal for this use. These buds feel like they will last years of hard abuse. The are exceptionally well built with metal housing, thick rubberised cable and very solid 3.5mm jack. These are mid centric buds which sound pretty neutral overall. Clarity is good, there's no sub bass extension at all really, and only modest mid bass. These are definitely a niche earbud but that's exactly what I wanted it to be. So I'm very happy with this purchase.

Now to burn in the vido and PK2 and report back if there are any changes!


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> So I received the Vido, DIY PK2 and Auglamour RX1 today which I'm excited about!
> 
> The vido is excellent for €3, truly impressive value for money. However I'm not quite sure it suits my preference as it's bass is just a slight bit boomy/overpowering and the mids are not exactly crystal clear. I think these can be fine tuned to become very capable buds with some EQing and the right source (energetic/bright source to counteract the boomy bass and emphasis on lower frequencies). My only complaint is they are not as clear sounding as the monks in the mid region. Other than that I cannot complain much for a earbud in this price range.
> 
> ...



Interesting, thanks. If you have the monk+ thin foams, the vido's respond very well to them.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 25, 2017)

waynes world said:


> Interesting, thanks. If you have the monk+ thin foams, the vido's respond very well to them.



I destroyed all mine, they break too easily. But I was thinking exactly that for the Vido. I do have a black full foam that was stretched by a larger bud so it is quiet thin (somewhere between the monk foam and the heigi foam) and it's doing the job at the moment. I think the vido just lacks that slight bit of clarity to take it to the next level. But I will get some more monk foams to test it out anyway. Maybe burn in will help also.

Also I gave the PK2 a second listen and something isn't right, I'm 90% sure I have a faulty unit because there's no way they can sound this muffled when their strong point is vocals/mids. They sound more muffled than the $3 vido's...

I think I'll ask for a replacement from NickHCK Jim. I've just bought 3-4 buds from him and if (when ) I get the graphene it'll be 5 so I hope he can replace this faulty one as good customer service ^^


----------



## waynes world (Sep 25, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> I destroyed all mine, they break too easily. But I was thinking exactly that for the Vido. I do have a black full foam that was stretched by a larger bud so it is quiet thin (somewhere between the monk foam and the heigi foam) and it's doing the job at the moment. I think the vido just lacks that slight bit of clarity to take it to the next level. But I will get some more monk foams to test it out anyway. Maybe burn in will help also.
> 
> Also I gave the PK2 a second listen and something isn't right, I'm 90% sure I have a faulty unit because there's no way they can sound this muffled when there strong point is vocals/mids. They sound more muffled than the $3 vido's...
> 
> I think I'll ask for a replacement from NickHCK Jim. I've just bought 3-4 buds from him and if (when ) I get the graphene it'll be 5 so I hope he can replace this faulty one as good customer service ^^



NiceHCK Jim has provided me with great service, so you might be in luck.

Regarding the Vido's and "I think the vido just lacks that slight bit of clarity to take it to the next level", I agree. With the monk+ thin foams they are very enjoyable to me and I find them great when looking for a mellower non-fatiguing listen. But the only way to really get them to the "next level" is to change their name to EMX500   edit: or if you are willing to spend a bit more, the graphenes


----------



## waynes world

Makahl said:


> I got EMX500 and Vido today in my mail today and I'm a little disappointed with the QC of EMX500 and Vido. As my routine after receiving an earbud, I like to use those tones to check if there's something wrong with the drivers: http://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_subwooferharmonicdistortion.php
> 
> And all tones below 50Hz I can hear some blown tone or distortion over a linear sound. It's pretty clear when I'm listening to some electronic music too. Does someone get a similar problem?



I'll have to give that a try when I have some time. Maybe I won't like what I find lol.


----------



## noknok23

loving the graphene so far, they really stand out in the sub $30 bracket - shout out for all that recommended theses. imo nicehck is a fine earbuds maker (his pk2, not the best technically, has quite unique sound with lovely vocals). I will follow his next releases closely.


----------



## Danneq

euge said:


> How do the sound stages compare? Was thinking of getting the Moondrop Liebesleid since I love the Masya.


Sozy BK has got a deeper soundstage than CampFred (from memory). Sub bass and overall bass presence is better on CampFred.



ctaxxxx said:


> I've actually been thinking of re-ordering the Shozy BK, but in balanced! I miss them and would love to hear how much they improve with DX200's AMP3. I feel like they should be added back into my top 5 and just place Vido in it's own "Honorable Mentions" field or something.


Do that! They won't be available forever.



93EXCivic said:


> Which other two Cypherus earbuds do you own? I ended up really struggling between ordering the BK and Campfred2s



My first Cypherus earbuds were QFred about 1 year ago. I wasn't the first Cypherus owner on Head fi, but I was the first one who started hyping them in this thread. A few months later I bought CampFred and CAX Black edition. A few month ago I was offered to buy Red Dragon second hand. After I bought them I sold my pair of CAX Black. Really want CampFred 2 but I have spent much on other things lately. So right now my earbud budget is only around $30...


----------



## KookaBurrra

93EXCivic said:


> $200 plus shipping.


Outch!!!
The earbuds market gone crazy...


----------



## 93EXCivic

KookaBurrra said:


> Outch!!!
> The earbuds market gone crazy...



Way way cheaper then IEM or full sized cans though still.


----------



## 93EXCivic

Danneq said:


> My first Cypherus earbuds were QFred about 1 year ago. I wasn't the first Cypherus owner on Head fi, but I was the first one who started hyping them in this thread. A few months later I bought CampFred and CAX Black edition. A few month ago I was offered to buy Red Dragon second hand. After I bought them I sold my pair of CAX Black. Really want CampFred 2 but I have spent much on other things lately. So right now my earbud budget is only around $30...



I want some CAX Black but I can't imagine what the cost on those are.


----------



## acap13

Hey guys, is the HE 150 pro still newly released that I cannot find anyone talk on its impression as of yet. If anyone who has acquired 150pro, would you mind sharing the signature and comparison with other earbuds?

 Thanks,


----------



## Danneq

KookaBurrra said:


> Outch!!!
> The earbuds market gone crazy...



Some of those $200 earbuds can rival full size headphones. My CampFreds that used to cost $150 when they were sold blows my pair of ATH ES10 away. (well, except for bass slam where the 52mm drivers of ES10 hit hard)



93EXCivic said:


> I want some CAX Black but I can't imagine what the cost on those are.



I bought my pair for $280 excluding shipping. Red Dragon was around $600 including shipping second hand. I never imagined spending so much on earbuds or headphones, but I still think they are definitely worth the price (that goes for both CAX Black and Red Dragon).


----------



## KookaBurrra (Sep 25, 2017)

93EXCivic said:


> Way way cheaper then IEM or full sized cans though still.


I only talk about the increase in few months, not about the "absolute value". 50, 100, and now 200$ for the TOLT, in 1 or 2 years. What the limit ? (sky's the limit! )

I have test the Cypherus Campfred1 : not impressive for me, for the price, in comparaison with TY Hi-Z HP-650. And I can't said that DIY EXM500 are better because I don't want to have enemy here! 

Of course, it's just my opinion.


----------



## wskl

acap13 said:


> Hey guys, is the HE 150 pro still newly released that I cannot find anyone talk on its impression as of yet. If anyone who has acquired 150pro, would you mind sharing the signature and comparison with other earbuds?
> 
> Thanks,



Someone has reviewed it here - https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2017/09/20/he150-pro/


----------



## Danneq

KookaBurrra said:


> I only talk about the increase in few months, not about the "absolute value". 50, 100, and now 200$ for the TOLT, in 1 or 2 years. What the limit ? (sky's the limit! )
> 
> I have test the Cypherus Campfred1 : not impressive for me, for the price, in comparaison with TY Hi-Z HP-650. And I can't said that DIY EXM500 are better because I don't want to have enemy here!
> 
> Of course, it's just my opinion.



I dare not tell you the planned price for VE Nirvana...

About 5 or 6 years ago I bought Hisoundaudio Living. At that time it cost $149. So did Yuin PK1. A while later I bought NW Studio Pro for $149. Both Hisoundaudio Living and NW Studio Pro were pretty mediocre for the price.

Back then budget earbuds sounded like crap. you had to go to Yuin PK3 at $35-40 to get a pair of decent sounding earbuds. 

The last 2 years have brought some amazing sounding budget earbuds. The TOTL earbuds are much better than the old TOTL earbuds and the $5-10 budget earbuds sound equal or better than many older $50-100 earbuds.

Great and at the same time terrible (for your wallet) time to be an earbud fan.


----------



## acap13

wskl said:


> Someone has reviewed it here - https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2017/09/20/he150-pro/



Thank you for the link shared. So its pretty neutral afterall. I'm not in a position to acquire another yet neutral signature earbud. Also, I heard EB200 to be special and have some magic on it. Despite being 200ohm, I may or may not like it too.


----------



## vladstef

Fengru EMX500 keeps surprising with consistently awesome performance, but it somehow managed to blow me away again when I played Hans Zimmer - Mountains (Interstellar soundtrack). Play it loudly and bear through the build up, when it finally hits... I had my mouth wide open in disbelief. This really sounds unimaginable, if someone played this to me without me knowing what is producing the sound, I'd think I had been listening to something worth over 500$ easily.
This also shows just how much better EMX500 is compared to my other buds, Vido and RX-1 which just can't compare when it comes to this particular track.


----------



## snip3r77

noknok23 said:


> loving the graphene so far, they really stand out in the sub $30 bracket - shout out for all that recommended theses. imo nicehck is a fine earbuds maker (his pk2, not the best technically, has quite unique sound with lovely vocals). I will follow his next releases closely.


https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-diy-graphene.22565/reviews

Is it really on par with shozy bk?


----------



## 93EXCivic (Sep 25, 2017)

^^ IMO a FR graph only tells part of the story of a headphone. There is the distortion, impedance and phase to consider as well. Also there is also a major possiblity of positioning problems when testing headphones which is why Tyll at Innerfidelity measures headphones multiple times. This becomes a much bigger problem with earbuds as they are extremely positionally sensitive. 

I am not criticizing the reviewer for trying to include measurements. I think that is great. It is just hard to judge too much without setup info and without other graphs IMO.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 25, 2017)

Ok spent another hour with the Vido and RX1. I can now safely say I am NOT a bashead! Vido is just too much boomy bass for me. It's an amazing little bud for 3$ and most bass I've heard in an earbud... I just don't like that much bass lol. I only like bass detail with sub bass extension and tight bass but not drowning out mids.

RX1 is a nice niche product but it's definitely not my style for music listening. Perfect for my needs though for podcast etc. It's very smooth high's so it's quite relaxing. Could be slightly warmer but it's neutral which is fine. Voice sounds smooth and pretty clear.

DIY PK2 is faulty. Will get a refund and just go for the DIY Graphene instead I think.

Going to be listing my Penon BS1 for trade in the morning if anyone wants it. I'd love to swap for someone's graphene or maybe Moondrop Nameless.

BS1 is kinda focused on acoustic and vocals with neutral sound. It does abit of everything with great clarity and treble is lively. It's like a more agressive RX1 with better extension on both ends... with the drawback of being less laid back sound.

But I care more for a different sound signature hoping Masya/Emx500/graphene will be that for me.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Ok spent another hour with the Vido and RX1. I can now safely say I am NOT a bashead! Vido is just too much boomy bass for me. It's an amazing little bud for 3$ and most bass I've heard in an earbud... I just don't like that much bass lol. I only like bass detail with sub bass extension and tight bass but not drowning out mids.
> 
> RX1 is a nice niche product but it's definitely not my style for music listening. Perfect for my needs though for podcast etc. It's very smooth high's so it's quite relaxing. Could be slightly warmer but it's neutral which is fine. Voice sounds smooth and pretty clear.
> 
> ...



I don't think that I'm doing you a disservice by recommending that you get both the emx500 and either the graphene (or the nameless which is supposed to be quite similar). The graphene is more balanced, so for that reason - and because it is awesome - if I had to choose one for you, it would be the graphene. But I wouldn't want to have to choose because the emx500 rocks!


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 25, 2017)

waynes world said:


> I don't think that I'm doing you a disservice by recommending that you get both the emx500 and either the graphene (or the nameless which is supposed to be quite similar). The graphene is more balanced, so for that reason - and because it is awesome - if I had to choose one for you, it would be the graphene. But I wouldn't want to have to choose because the emx500 rocks!


No worries because I already have the EMX500 on order to arrive this week 

I want the graphenes too though, hence my reasoning to part with BS1 for them or ill just buy it maybe.

I think I would love both emx500 for soundstage which is important to me. Graphene for the balance and how well it is received here for SQ.


----------



## ballog (Sep 26, 2017)

waynes world said:


> NiceHCK Jim has provided me with great service, so you might be in luck.
> 
> Regarding the Vido's and "I think the vido just lacks that slight bit of clarity to take it to the next level", I agree. With the monk+ thin foams they are very enjoyable to me and I find them great when looking for a mellower non-fatiguing listen. But the only way to really get them to the "next level" is to change their name to EMX500   edit: or if you are willing to spend a bit more, the graphenes


Vido clarity fix - recable (here Fengru Silver plated borrowed fron DIY EMX500) - better extension at both ends. As has been mentioned before to take the Vido to the next level it needs to be recabled.


----------



## snip3r77

ballog said:


> Vido clarity fix - recable (here Fengru Silver plated borrowed fron DIY EMX500) - better extension at both ends. As has been mentioned before to take the Vido to the next level it needs to be recabled.



Is it able to firm up the bass?


----------



## Santojob

ballog said:


> Vido clarity fix - recable (here Fengru Silver plated borrowed fron DIY EMX500) - better extension at both ends. As has been mentioned before to take the Vido to the next level it needs to be recabled.



I want to change the cable of my VIDO, sell loose the cable of the DIY EMX500?

What other cable could you put to VIDO?

if can be from aliexpress for my best .... thanks


----------



## jogawag (Sep 27, 2017)

The only problem with MoonDrop Liebesleid is that the housing is made of bullet-shaped, heavy, complete metal. As a result, there was a fit feeling that fell from the foam pad slipping when the foam pad was attached.
I had this problem all day and tried various rings and covers and attached the next white silicone pad I bought before, the feeling of slip disappeared.
Now I can enjoy this high quality sound without worrying about slipping.
https://aliexpress.com/item//32675489785.html



(Later, I found that this black version pair is included in the MoonDrop VX Pro set you purchased earlier ...)


----------



## hung031086

Just received Shozy BK from Amazon.So surprise that it didn't come with any accessories except the carrying case. The sound is really nice. Its better than my zen 2.0 alot, especially the bass.


----------



## Blueshound24

snip3r77 said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-diy-graphene.22565/reviews
> 
> Is it really on par with shozy bk?




So, has anyone else compared the Graphene with the Shozy BK?


----------



## activatorfly

jogawag said:


> The only problem of MoonDrop Liebesleid is that the housing was made of a bullet-shaped heavy complete metal, so there was a bad fitting feeling that it was easy to fall from the foam pad due to slipping itself when the foam pad was attached.
> After I fighted this problem for the whole day trying various rings and covers and, as a result of attaching the following white silicon pad that I purchased before, the feeling of slipping disappeared.
> Now I can enjoy this high quality sound without worriness of slipping.
> https://aliexpress.com/item//32675489785.html
> ...



I imagine that Liebesleid sounds much better resolution/soundstage than the VX Pro?...I received VX Pro earlier today & have been comparing them with Masya (balanced cable) I initially tried listening with the silicon pad in place - however I've just removed them, as i think the central disc of the silicon pad blocks about 6mm of the driver. They sound more revealing now (especially with vocals) - donut foams still provide an adequate grip - did you notice much change in sound signature after burn in?


----------



## jogawag (Sep 26, 2017)

activatorfly said:


> I imagine that Liebesleid sounds much better resolution/soundstage than the VX Pro?...I received VX Pro earlier today & have been comparing them with Masya (balanced cable) I initially tried listening with the silicon pad in place - however I've just removed them, as i think the central disc of the silicon pad blocks about 6mm of the driver. They sound more revealing now (especially with vocals) - donut foams still provide an adequate grip - did you notice much change in sound signature after burn in?



I feel that Liebesleid sounds much better resolution/soundstage than the VX Pro.
If VX Pro is No.3 of THE CONTENDER, Liebesleid must be the new top of THE CHAMPIONS.(IMO)
And I don't notice much change in sound signature of Liebesleid after burn in.

Edit:
If you think the central disc of the silicon pad blocks about 6mm of the driver, you can use the pad below.(I don't have yet.)
https://aliexpress.com/item//32810530634.html


----------



## activatorfly

jogawag said:


> I feel that Liebesleid sounds much better resolution/soundstage than the VX Pro.
> If VX Pro is No.3 of THE CONTENDER, Liebesleid must be the new top of THE CHAMPIONS.(IMO)
> And I don't notice much change in sound signature of Liebesleid after burn in.
> 
> ...



I'll probably remove the central disc & reattach the pads later.....i guess Liebesleid & Mojito must tie for the top slot!


----------



## jogawag (Sep 26, 2017)

activatorfly said:


> I'll probably remove the central disc & reattach the pads later.....i guess Liebesleid & Mojito must tie for the top slot!



I have Mojito, and I have got Liebesleid now.
And then I am thinking to sell Mojito.
Because there are many parts overlapping their characteristics (high resolution and wide sound stage), and there are many parts where Liebesleid is obviously winning (such as transparency and naturalness of sound).


----------



## Saoshyant

@jogawag I remember trying those out awhile back, and I remember it sounding like it muffled the sound a little bit, which I guess isn't surprising when you're covering quite a bit up with silicon.  It has been quite awhile however, so take it with a grain of salt.


----------



## activatorfly (Sep 26, 2017)

jogawag said:


> I have Mojito, and I have got Liebesleid now.
> And then I am thinking to sell Mojito.
> Because there are many parts overlapping their characteristics (high resolution and wide sound stage), and there are many parts where Liebesleid is obviously winning (such as transparency and naturalness of sound).



Just modded the pads on VX-Pro: much better fit & sound signature now! - wish the Liebesleid were less dome-shaped - as getting the correct seal must take ages...bet the resulting sound is worth it! (maybe Red Dragon should top the list though tbh....)


----------



## eaglesgift (Sep 26, 2017)

Looking for some advice if anyone has the time to help.

I bought the TY HI-Z 32S and Monk+ earbuds a few weeks ago and while I like the 32S, I found the Monk+ quite dull/veiled/flat in comparison. Anyway, I'm looking to buy a pair of earbuds that have a nice wide soundstage and fairly even frequency response that will keep me happy for a few months. I basically want to stop ordering stuff and save some money for a while - the TFZ Exclusive 5s I got will keep me happy on the IEM front (I mention them as a SQ reference of something I'm really happy with) and now I'm looking to make one last purchase of earbuds before my self enforced sabbatical.

I've read a lot of this thread and was going to order the DIY Graphenes but the fact they are a little more bulky than standard MX500 cases worries me a little. My ear canals seem quite big but maybe the outside of my ears are not because I have to pull the TY HI-Z 32s down quite hard to get them to stay in position and it feels like something larger may not stay put.

EDIT: I'd rather spend $30 than $100 but if $30 buds are not going to cut it I'd spend up to $100 if necessary.


----------



## jogawag

activatorfly said:


> Just modded the pads on VX-Pro: much better fit & sound signature now! - wish the Liebesleid were less dome-shaped - as getting the correct seal must take ages...bet the resulting sound is worth it! (maybe Red Dragon should top the list though tbh....)



Please show me the Picture of modified VX Pro pads which much better fit sound. 
I don't have listen Red Dragon, so I can't say anything about Red Dragon...


----------



## waynes world (Sep 26, 2017)

eaglesgift said:


> Looking for some advice if anyone has the time to help.
> 
> I bought the TY HI-Z 32S and Monk+ earbuds a few weeks ago and while I like the 32S, I found the Monk+ quite dull/veiled/flat in comparison. Anyway, I'm looking to buy a pair of earbuds that have a nice wide soundstage and fairly even frequency response that will keep me happy for a few months. I basically want to stop ordering stuff and save some money for a while - the TFZ Exclusive 5s I got will keep me happy on the IEM front (I mention them as a SQ reference of something I'm really happy with) and now I'm looking to make one last purchase of earbuds before my self enforced sabbatical.
> 
> ...



I hadn't really noticed that the graphenes have bulkier housings than the monk+'s, but you are correct. Fwiw, I don't notice it at all and I find them quite comfortable. And they sound great.


----------



## activatorfly

eaglesgift said:


> Looking for some advice if anyone has the time to help.
> 
> I bought the TY HI-Z 32S and Monk+ earbuds a few weeks ago and while I like the 32S, I found the Monk+ quite dull/veiled/flat in comparison. Anyway, I'm looking to buy a pair of earbuds that have a nice wide soundstage and fairly even frequency response that will keep me happy for a few months. I basically want to stop ordering stuff and save some money for a while - the TFZ Exclusive 5s I got will keep me happy on the IEM front (I mention them as a SQ reference of something I'm really happy with) and now I'm looking to make one last purchase of earbuds before my self enforced sabbatical.
> 
> ...



For me Graphenes are the best value for $30...& tbh they're not much bulkier than MX500 - you get used to the size / maybe you could double up on foams to ensure a good seal?


----------



## activatorfly

jogawag said:


> Please show me the Picture of modified VX Pro pads which much better fit sound.
> I don't have listen Red Dragon, so I can't say anything about Red Dragon...



Just snip off the central disc & excess silicon - than re-attach them to VX Pro ....add a donut foam & you're good to go - better seal & grip....


----------



## snip3r77

jogawag said:


> I feel that Liebesleid sounds much better resolution/soundstage than the VX Pro.
> If VX Pro is No.3 of THE CONTENDER, Liebesleid must be the new top of THE CHAMPIONS.(IMO)
> And I don't notice much change in sound signature of Liebesleid after burn in.
> 
> ...



foams vs pads? How do they change SQ?


----------



## snip3r77

activatorfly said:


> I imagine that Liebesleid sounds much better resolution/soundstage than the VX Pro?...I received VX Pro earlier today & have been comparing them with Masya (balanced cable) I initially tried listening with the silicon pad in place - however I've just removed them, as i think the central disc of the silicon pad blocks about 6mm of the driver. They sound more revealing now (especially with vocals) - donut foams still provide an adequate grip - did you notice much change in sound signature after burn in?


Impression of VXPro vs Masya?


----------



## activatorfly

It's the combination of the two - achieves a better seal - i.e. they sit better & less prone to slip - you can check if you have the correct seal by pushing the housing against ear canal - to check if the bass response etc stays at same level (Getting the seal is critical for Masya too obv.....)

Masya > VX-Pro every-time - however it's an un-unfair comparison as i listen to Masya via balanced output...so volume levels can really you can pushed higher! (-yet to re-cable VX)


----------



## doggiemom

A few days ago, I received my order from NICEHCK of their DIY graphenes, Moondrop Nameless, and K's 300 Samsara version.  The Moondrops sound okay but I am really disappointed in the QC:  the stem from one of the buds was not secured in properly.  The wires are still intact so they "work," but they need to be re-epoxied.  The graphenes are alot of fun:  v-shaped sound though heavier on the treble.  There is a definite emphasis on the high end, but they are not bright enough to be fatiguing.  The K 300 Samsaras are very nice.  I prefer a neutral presentation, and at their price point they do not disappoint.  Good clarity and separation, and a nice almost headphone-like listening experience.

I LOVE a good value:  at work I prefer buds and IEMS that cost <$30 in case they get stolen.  Most often I bring Vidos and Monks to work.  (Maybe the Espresso balanced if I'm feeling reckless).  But I also believe in the law of diminishing returns........  I don't expect my beloved Vidos to perform to a Blur or CAX Black level, so I evaluate their performance based on their price point and the situations I take them into (e.g. will I be sad if they get stolen or not?), and appreciate them or not based on that.  Maybe I have a point...... oh yes, it is decide on what you want to spend and find the best value for that amount of money.  But it is unrealistic to expect a $5 earbud to kill a $4k Utopia.  For me the fun of earbuds and Chi-fi is finding the best bang for the buck......... but I don't think it is fair to be surprised by the cost of a $200 bud, because it very likely it still kills at that price point.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Sep 26, 2017)

edit


----------



## jogawag (Sep 26, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> foams vs pads? How do they change SQ?


Not [foams vs pads], but [Silicon pad with holes in one corner vs Silicon pad with holes scattered]
I do not particularly feel the change of SQ.


----------



## krunchcrispy

activatorfly said:


> It's the combination of the two - achieves a better seal - i.e. they sit better & less prone to slip - you can check if you have the correct seal by pushing the housing against ear canal - to check if the bass response etc stays at same level (Getting the seal is critical for Masya too obv.....)
> 
> Masya > VX-Pro every-time - however it's an un-unfair comparison as i listen to Masya via balanced output...so volume levels can really you can pushed higher! (-yet to re-cable VX)


Which masya do you have? The old, new, or carbon? Are the new Masya worth getting?


----------



## Redcarmoose

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/se...ear-headphones-blue.8620/reviews#review-19234


----------



## ballog

Santojob said:


> I want to change the cable of my VIDO, sell loose the cable of the DIY EMX500?
> 
> What other cable could you put to VIDO?
> 
> if can be from aliexpress for my best .... thanks


Here is the same cable in semi-finished form (ready to solder) - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Sin...l?spm=2114.10010108.1000023.14.1d85897a9P3ohq. However it is to be noted that this cable is almost the same price as the DIY EMX500 earbud. So maybe instead of recabling a Vido one might just buy the EMX500.
As an alternative these are cheaper but not exactly the same - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot...l?spm=2114.10010108.1000015.10.1e02dd140CslPE.


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 27, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> Finally the RX1. These buds fit a niche purpose for me as a night listening/audiobook/podcast earbud. The comfort, build quality and inline controls are ideal for this use. These buds feel like they will last years of hard abuse. The are exceptionally well built with metal housing, thick rubberised cable and very solid 3.5mm jack. These are mid centric buds which sound pretty neutral overall. Clarity is good, there's no sub bass extension at all really, and only modest mid bass. These are definitely a niche earbud but that's exactly what I wanted it to be. So I'm very happy with this purchase.
> 
> Now to burn in the vido and PK2 and report back if there are any changes!


I agree with you.  They sound smooth on the treble, but good articulation in the mids.  As well as the clarity as you say.  I like the open-ness of the sound and sounds especially good with horns as well. Transient response is so good that the string instruments are quite clear and tight.  Treble doesn't get uppity either.  It's smooth with ample level for articulation, and good level of resolvability(you can hear how fine the treble can get with the cymbals).  My fav dynamic driver earphones at the moment.

It's too bad I am not able to purchase other buds due to AliExpress not letting me checkout my cart due to some security features.  I tried two different cards from different banks, and no dice.  Anybody else from the US have trouble purchasing?  I don't know what to do.  I called up my bank and they had no idea of the issue.


----------



## eaglesgift

activatorfly said:


> For me Graphenes are the best value for $30...& tbh they're not much bulkier than MX500 - you get used to the size / maybe you could double up on foams to ensure a good seal?


Thanks very much for your advice (and thanks to waynes world too). Looks like it's the Graphenes for me then.


----------



## golov17

Go-go to V-Master https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XbVzP6LAKLag2mwgXGho8Iz9GDSYCFQLsnJWuW4Ld88/htmlview


https://www.facebook.com/VFriendTeam/


----------



## waynes world

Redcarmoose said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/se...ear-headphones-blue.8620/reviews#review-19234



Excellent! I really enjoyed that. Made me think of the classic Koss KSC75's (and Portpros) which I still enjoy


----------



## eaglesgift (Sep 27, 2017)

That's a long waiting list. If he can only make 10 a week and loses 2-3 to QC (as he says on Facebook page), it'll take 60 weeks to fill all those orders (not very clear on how often 2-3 are lost to QC though so might be a bit quicker).


----------



## snip3r77

golov17 said:


> Go-go to V-Master https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XbVzP6LAKLag2mwgXGho8Iz9GDSYCFQLsnJWuW4Ld88/htmlview
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/VFriendTeam/


Where's your name?


----------



## golov17 (Sep 27, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> Where's your name?


108 backup


----------



## acap13

Do anyone have experience on Graphene MX760 comments on its sound quality compared to other TOTL? Also, how does the fit do on this pair? Maximum I can tolerate with is MX500 housing. 

Thanks,


----------



## activatorfly

krunchcrispy said:


> Which masya do you have? The old, new, or carbon? Are the new Masya worth getting?



I chose old (non-carbon) Masya - reviews state they sound better than new version....


----------



## krunchcrispy

activatorfly said:


> I chose old (non-carbon) Masya - reviews state they sound better than new version....


How can someone order the old version now? I can only find the new version. . .


----------



## doggiemom

SilverEars said:


> It's too bad I am not able to purchase other buds due to AliExpress not letting me checkout my cart due to some security features.  I tried two different cards from different banks, and no dice.  Anybody else from the US have trouble purchasing?  I don't know what to do.  I called up my bank and they had no idea of the issue.


I always use paypal and have never had a problem.


----------



## activatorfly

krunchcrispy said:


> How can someone order the old version now? I can only find the new version. . .


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...32809843565.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.8CFF1L


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 27, 2017)

krunchcrispy said:


> How can someone order the old version now? I can only find the new version. . .


It's the one with the front grill completely filled out with vents/holes. The other version with a different/lesser sound quality only half fills out the front grill.

Most of the masya are called "new masya" on Aliexpress but if you get the version with full grill venting that should be the one you want.

Not sure if there's a 3D print version of the original Masya or if that's only the newer version people don't like or not though.


----------



## Danneq

doggiemom said:


> I always use paypal and have never had a problem.



How do you use Paypal with Aliexpress?


----------



## vladstef

I've had issues with rattling on EMX500, only when pushed loud and there was a lot of bass. As mentioned before, this is not distortion but membrane being displaced. I tried pretty much everything I could think of, including adding a very thin additional layer of stuff on the back casing to increase pressure on the driver which changed nothing. The thing that finally worked was removing the driver from the front plastic, trying to separate membrane from magnet (being very careful not to pull on the coil wires, when pulling them apart, you should try to open it like a book, keeping the coils together). There was a little bit of glue that I wanted to remove, which only kept a part of membrane glued to the magnet (this was not intended by design, only was there due to glue dripping down to membrane, from the back of the driver). 

This also doesn't fix anything, but it was necessary for this next step, which was ever so slightly twisting the membrane compared to magnet . This part like the previous one is dangerous for the coil wires, you only have a little bit of wiggle room and half a millimeter of twisting was the trick, completely removed any irregularities.

I have no idea how this ended up working in the end, because it was such a small change, and this was definitely the thing that was wrong, I've opened it and closed it probably 30 times before trying to magically fix things with different positions of parts.

This design is definitely flawed, the fact that membrane is not always 100% secured in place is disturbing and had no reason for this kind of implementation. There are much better earbud driver designs in terms of driver integrity. Can't fault the sound though, EMX500 is essentially a totl earbud at an amazing price.


----------



## fairx

Hi guys. I'm trying  to understand , is my new eb200 came in broken or they sound as i heard it is.

The mids / vocal is not natural when playing bass heavy track. Overly textured mid bass spilling fhe texture to lower mid. Not all song affected though. Some track do sound awesome and very immersive. Especially song with lost of wind, string or brass.


----------



## krunchcrispy

seanc6441 said:


> It's the one with the front grill completely filled out with vents/holes. The other version with a different/lesser sound quality only half fills out the front grill.
> 
> Most of the masya are called "new masya" on Aliexpress but if you get the version with full grill venting that should be the one you want.
> 
> Not sure if there's a 3D print version of the original Masya or if that's only the newer version people don't like or not though.


Thanks. Very helpful


----------



## jogawag

After all, I am using Moondrop Liebesleid with a thin Silicon Ring.
That Silicon Ring was made by cutting Fin of FinRing which was included in VE's Ex Pack.
I am happy if it becomes a reference for those who are troubled by Moondrop Liebesleid slipping.


----------



## RuFrost

jogawag said:


> After all, I am using Moondrop Liebesleid with a thin Silicon Ring.
> That Silicon Ring was made by cutting Fin of FinRing which was included in VE's Ex Pack.
> I am happy if it becomes a reference for those who are troubled by Moondrop Liebesleid slipping.


can you,please, compare Shozy BK and mx985 with Liebesleid? If to stay with one earbud, what it would be?


----------



## doggiemom

Danneq said:


> How do you use Paypal with Aliexpress?


I am very sorry, I was thinking of another site.  I don't use Paypal with Ali.  Very sorry for the confusion.


----------



## jogawag (Sep 28, 2017)

RuFrost said:


> can you,please, compare Shozy BK and mx985 with Liebesleid? If to stay with one earbud, what it would be?



IMO
Shozy BK: High resolution, very thick density sound, sound stage is normal, amount of bass is sufficient, small and comfortable housing
mx985: High resolution, artificial treble, sound stage is normal, amount of bass is sufficient, strange housing
Moondrop Liebesleid: Very high resolution, very natural and transparent sound, sound stage is wide enough, bass is normal amount, very heavy housing

Edit:
I like Moondrop Liebesleid, secondarily Shozy BK.


----------



## theoutsider

jogawag said:


> After all, I am using Moondrop Liebesleid with a thin Silicon Ring.


After the modification, showerhead Liebesleid looks a bit like its lesser brother VX pro.


----------



## jogawag

cursing said:


> After the modification, showerhead Liebesleid looks a bit like its lesser brother VX pro.


Indeed! lol


----------



## seanc6441

Anyone know if there is a difference in sound between the Nicehck DIY Graphene Black version and Clear version?


----------



## eaglesgift

I was wondering that too. I've seen a few 'MX760 Graphene' earbuds on AliExpress but not sure if they're the same as the NICEHCK DIY ones.


----------



## seanc6441

eaglesgift said:


> I was wondering that too. I've seen a few 'MX760 Graphene' earbuds on AliExpress but not sure if they're the same as the NICEHCK DIY ones.


Nicehck has 2 versions himself one clear one black.

I would assume it's the same but in some pictures black version has metal grill and clear version has plastic.

So I'm really not sure!


----------



## activatorfly (Sep 28, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> Nicehck has 2 versions himself one clear one black.
> 
> I would assume it's the same but in some pictures black version has metal grill and clear version has plastic.
> 
> So I'm really not sure!



I received clear ones last week - as i intended to convert either the black or transparent pair with a balanced jack. If you noticed most orders were for black - thus there was no direct comparison between the two.
I too assumed they'd be exactly the same - however if i had to keep one i'd opt for clear. I'm switching between the two now....and there's a noticeable improvement in resolution/sound-stage/sparkle & "air" in the clear version.
The cable also feels of better quality softer feel and less tangly.....maybe sometimes it pays to try the alternative version. Logic would say that the metal grille of the black version is better - whereas the clear versions white plastic grille seems cheap & off-putting - like an apple bud. The proof is in the sound signature - the black just sound a bit muffled to me (hence i'll convert those to balanced) & the clear are fine in tact with SE output....hope that helps!


----------



## eaglesgift

activatorfly said:


> I received clear ones last week - as i intended to convert either the black or transparent pair with a balanced jack. If you noticed most orders were for black - thus there was no direct comparison between the two.
> I too assumed they'd be exactly the same - however if i had to keep one i'd opt for clear. I'm switching between the two now....and there's a noticeable improvement in resolution/sound-stage/sparkle & "air" in the clear version.
> The cable also feels of better quality softer feel and less tangly.....maybe sometimes it pays to try the alternative version. Logic would say that the metal grille of the black version is better - whereas the clear versions white plastic grille seems cheap & off-putting - like an apple bud. The proof is in the sound signature - the black just sound a bit muffled to me (hence i'll convert those to balanced) & the clear are fine in tact with SE output....hope that helps!


No it doesn't help at all. You've just made life more complicated for me. Now I'll have to order the clear ones I guess, but maybe I'll wonder whether you were actually right once I get them and then I'll have to order the black ones too and compare them myself.


----------



## HungryPanda

Svara-L earbuds have arrived:


----------



## Saoshyant

How are they from a bassy perspective?


----------



## activatorfly

eaglesgift said:


> No it doesn't help at all. You've just made life more complicated for me. Now I'll have to order the clear ones I guess, but maybe I'll wonder whether you were actually right once I get them and then I'll have to order the black ones too and compare them myself.


Sorry dude! lol - however in hindsight I certainly wish someone had reviewed both versions before I bought them!!.....After hearing the clear, I stopped listening to black...maybe i'll sell them or convert them not decided yet....


----------



## eaglesgift

activatorfly said:


> Sorry dude! lol - however in hindsight I certainly wish someone had reviewed both versions before I bought them!!.....After hearing the clear, I stopped listening to black...maybe i'll sell them or convert them not decided yet....


I think I'll go for the clear now - glad I read your post before I ordered.


----------



## HungryPanda

They have rather good bass, very clear as well, love them


----------



## activatorfly

eaglesgift said:


> I think I'll go for the clear now - glad I read your post before I ordered.


No worries!...it's all subjective I guess....I was initially put off by the white grille (like everyone else who bought black.) - I guess it shows how much variation there is in QC - transparent are a clear winner in quality & sound.....


----------



## HungryPanda

activatorfly said:


> I received clear ones last week - as i intended to convert either the black or transparent pair with a balanced jack. If you noticed most orders were for black - thus there was no direct comparison between the two.
> I too assumed they'd be exactly the same - however if i had to keep one i'd opt for clear. I'm switching between the two now....and there's a noticeable improvement in resolution/sound-stage/sparkle & "air" in the clear version.
> The cable also feels of better quality softer feel and less tangly.....maybe sometimes it pays to try the alternative version. Logic would say that the metal grille of the black version is better - whereas the clear versions white plastic grille seems cheap & off-putting - like an apple bud. The proof is in the sound signature - the black just sound a bit muffled to me (hence i'll convert those to balanced) & the clear are fine in tact with SE output....hope that helps!



I have the 2017 New NICEHCK DIY Graphene MX760 which is black, all plastic it does not have a metal grille


----------



## eaglesgift

HungryPanda said:


> I have the 2017 New NICEHCK DIY Graphene MX760 which is black, all plastic it does not have a metal grille


If these are the same, they're about $8 cheaper:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Han...lgo_pvid=f4c977a0-797b-4cd4-8bac-ec945d5dae54

But I'm not sure if they are...


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 28, 2017)

HungryPanda said:


> I have the 2017 New NICEHCK DIY Graphene MX760 which is black, all plastic it does not have a metal grille


I'm guessing the grille is the only difference between the versions and if your black version has the same grille as the clear version it should sound the same.

It's still weird to have two different variations of grille though...


----------



## seanc6441

eaglesgift said:


> If these are the same, they're about $8 cheaper:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Han...lgo_pvid=f4c977a0-797b-4cd4-8bac-ec945d5dae54
> 
> But I'm not sure if they are...



Yeah I wouldn't bank on them being the same. Could be a different driver. Nicehck version gets full 5 stars for a reason I'd assume. The others all have slightly lower ratings, although take from that what you will, anyone can give a poor rating for a contrary reason lol


----------



## chellity (Sep 28, 2017)

Maybe that is why I posted some of the early praise for the graphene bud.  I definitely purchased clear, because I figured the casing does have an effect on the sound of the bud.  Given that this earbud is known for being adequately bassy, I opted for the pretty clear shells for a more balanced sound.

But even then, this is one of the only earbuds where a midrange EQ boost is appreciated, along with my usual bass EQ.  I'm definitely loving this earbud with the slightly warm/smooth cayin n3 to round out this earbuds v shape.  My main complaints about this bud vs k's 300 pro (another good bud) would simply be the imaging, or separation in complicated parts of music (attack definitely goes to graphenes).  Everything else like comfort, looks, and overall sound is there for graphenes.

Also, I'm finding that the graphenes are probably the only earbuds where I actually like the cheap full foams, even over a monk foam.  The monk foams are slightly more detailed for sure, but the bass difference is pretty dramatic between the two foams.  If only monk foams werent so fragile and expensive for the amount of foams you get.  I'm wondering if hiegi full foams would be my preferred foam for graphenes


----------



## eaglesgift

chellity said:


> Maybe that is why I posted some of the early praise for the graphene bud.  I definitely purchased clear, because I figured the casing does have an effect on the sound of the bud.  Given that this earbud is known for being adequately bassy, I opted for the pretty clear shells for a more balanced sound.
> 
> But even then, this is one of the only earbuds where a midrange EQ boost is appreciated, along with my usual bass EQ.  I'm definitely loving this earbud with the warm/smooth cayin n3 to round out this earbuds v shape.


Are they very v-shaped?


----------



## HungryPanda

I use the donut foams on my graphenes


----------



## waynes world (Sep 28, 2017)

HungryPanda said:


> I have the 2017 New NICEHCK DIY Graphene MX760 which is black, all plastic it does not have a metal grille



I have those as well. This is the link:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...High-End-Rare-Earth-Graphene/32821104494.html

But, mine (as well as the ones in the above link) have the metal grilles.

I'm not yet quite buying into the "clear graphines with plastic grille sound better than the black graphines with metal grille", but who knows. All I really know is that my black ones (with metal grille) sound excellent. So if the clear ones sound better, then you with the clear graphines are doing all right!

edit: but it is strange that they have different grilles, so yeah, maybe they do sound different.



HungryPanda said:


> I use the donut foams on my graphenes



Me too. Really like them on the graphenes.


----------



## chellity

HungryPanda said:


> I use the donut foams on my graphenes



https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-diy-graphene.22565/reviews

Frequency response for the graphenes are there, vs shozy stardust/BK . The highs are nice actually, and so is the bass.  It's just that there is a small recession in mids, which definitely can be compensated for with the right DAP pairing or EQ.  The majority of the music I listen to is mid oriented, but I listen to everything...so graphenes can handle my wide range of music with the right set up.


----------



## seanc6441

chellity said:


> Also, I'm finding that the graphenes are probably the only earbuds where I actually like the cheap full foams, even over a monk foam.  The monk foams are slightly more detailed for sure, but the bass difference is pretty dramatic between the two foams.  If only monk foams werent so fragile and expensive for the amount of foams you get.  I'm wondering if hiegi full foams would be my preferred foam for graphenes



They need to bring out a foam with heigi density on the outside and monk density on the middle 

That would be the ultimate foam for clarity and full sound!

Would be somewhat more complicated to make though lol


----------



## snip3r77

chellity said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-diy-graphene.22565/reviews
> 
> Frequency response for the graphenes are there, vs shozy stardust/BK . The highs are nice actually, and so is the bass.  It's just that there is a small recession in mids, which definitely can be compensated for with the right DAP pairing or EQ.  The majority of the music I listen to is mid oriented, but I listen to everything...so graphenes can handle my wide range of music with the right set up.


I bought the white graphene hope it’s all good


----------



## golov17

seanc6441 said:


> They need to bring out a foam with heigi density on the outside and monk density on the middle
> 
> That would be the ultimate foam for clarity and full sound!
> 
> Would be somewhat more complicated to make though lol


Try this 
100 Pcs Black Sponge Earbud Headphone Cap Ear Pads Cover Replacement
http://s.aliexpress.com/MFbuuMri 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## nsk1

I got Blox B320 bundled with other cheap earbuds for sale, if someone is interested .


----------



## seanc6441

golov17 said:


> Try this
> 100 Pcs Black Sponge Earbud Headphone Cap Ear Pads Cover Replacement
> http://s.aliexpress.com/MFbuuMri
> (from AliExpress Android)



100 pcs/50 pairs for less than €1??? That's some amazing value right there. Thanks! I needed new monk foams or similar I'll give these a try!


----------



## golov17

seanc6441 said:


> 100 pcs/50 pairs for less than €1??? That's some amazing value right there. Thanks! I needed new monk foams or similar I'll give these a try!


MP is still better, but these cheaper foams are harder to wear out


----------



## jogawag (Sep 29, 2017)

golov17 said:


> MP is still better, but these cheaper foams are harder to wear out


30 minutes after ordering the form pads, an Email came from the seller confirming MY order number. This was my first time.
Surely, since the large number of orders came suddenly, the seller would have panicked.


----------



## SilverEars

Looks like AliExpess has security verification for bank cards which require a photo scan of either your ID or passport.

I cannot provide either of those to a Chinese merchant.

From what they told me, it's on their end, not my bank or Visa.  This is rediculous as I do not want my id compremised!

Any other ways to purchase buds?


----------



## Qualcheduno

SilverEars said:


> Looks like AliExpess has security verification for bank cards which require a photo scan of either your ID or passport.
> 
> I cannot provide either of those to a Chinese merchant.
> 
> ...


Penon audio, EBay and also some DIY manufacters have their own site or their own FB page, and you can order from there.


----------



## golov17

Qualcheduno said:


> Penon audio, EBay and also some DIY manufacters have their own site or their own FB page, and you can order from there.


 Veclan.com used PayPal too


----------



## ctaxxxx

SilverEars said:


> Looks like AliExpess has security verification for bank cards which require a photo scan of either your ID or passport.
> 
> I cannot provide either of those to a Chinese merchant.
> 
> ...



Have you tried other sellers on AliExpress? I think I only had that happen with VE through that site. I was able to buy other things from other sellers.


----------



## SilverEars

ctaxxxx said:


> Have you tried other sellers on AliExpress? I think I only had that happen with VE through that site. I was able to buy other things from other sellers.


I tried purchasing individual items, and also contacted AliExpress.  And they told me they need to run verification to protect sellers supposedly, but that makes no sense. More like they are accumulating our personal info which compremises our identity.


----------



## HungryPanda

I went through this, gave a photo of my driving licence, and a screenshot of my last aliexpress purchase from my credit card statement (just a few line, no account details)


----------



## 93EXCivic

I have never had to do that and if I was asked I would not do it.


----------



## HungryPanda

If I have to pick up a parcel at the post office I have to show proof of identity, credit card is covered anyway


----------



## chellity

golov17 said:


> Try this
> 100 Pcs Black Sponge Earbud Headphone Cap Ear Pads Cover Replacement
> http://s.aliexpress.com/MFbuuMri
> (from AliExpress Android)



thank you uncle Olov, these ones look thinner than normal cheap foams!


----------



## golov17

chellity said:


> thank you uncle Olov, these ones look thinner than normal cheap foams!


It is


----------



## Saoshyant

SilverEars said:


> I tried purchasing individual items, and also contacted AliExpress.  And they told me they need to run verification to protect sellers supposedly, but that makes no sense. More like they are accumulating our personal info which compremises our identity.



Not to be mean, but this feels to me a little overly paranoid.


----------



## noknok23

SilverEars said:


> Looks like AliExpess has security verification for bank cards which require a photo scan of either your ID or passport.
> 
> I cannot provide either of those to a Chinese merchant.
> 
> ...


I looked on reddit/r/aliexpress someone said this:


Spoiler



I've been plagued by this too, and it seems there isn't an elegant killer for this problem yet.

Right now the solutions I've seen:


You can have a local friend order things for you
According to some, uploading image of an ID and blocking out all the sensitive info works.
Here are the things I've tried and didn't work:


Different credit card
Registering new account with own IP address
Registering new account via VPN



other solution: photoshop an ID with fake info/numbers. they have no way to check


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 29, 2017)

What is the logic behind a scan of my id?  What is it from that they require?  Name, address are provided in my profile.  A statement with blurred out account number make sense, but id?

If I were to send them a scan, I'd blur out all the sensitive numbers.


----------



## waynes world

Saoshyant said:


> Not to be mean, but this feels to me a little overly paranoid.



Besides, what's the point of worrying about aliexpress losing our personal information when equifax is already doing such a good job of it.


----------



## SilverEars

waynes world said:


> Besides, what's the point of worrying about aliexpress losing our personal information when equifax is already doing such a good job of it.


So, why not let anybody have all your sensitive info if that is your logic?  Not I.


----------



## Saoshyant

waynes world said:


> Besides, what's the point of worrying about aliexpress losing our personal information when equifax is already doing such a good job of it.



They sure as hell handed mine away already, and for now I'm currently choosing to accept it's beyond my control so I may as well not stress until I have a real reason to worry.


----------



## noknok23

well if you think NSA is bad... Chinese government is 1000%worse.


----------



## waynes world

SilverEars said:


> So, why not let anybody have all your sensitive info if that is your logic?  Not I.



Sorry - I was being sarcastic. It's all pretty scary, and I don't blame you for trying to limit your exposure. It really annoys me though that even if you are careful and don't disclose your information, you can still get screwed. Anyway, my apologies for going OT.


----------



## HungryPanda

use a credit card anywhere it's a crap shoot


----------



## doggiemom

HungryPanda said:


> I went through this, gave a photo of my driving licence, and a screenshot of my last aliexpress purchase from my credit card statement (just a few line, no account details)


Odd, I've never been asked to do that.  I would likely not do that if asked.  That sucks.


----------



## doggiemom

I was listening to the K's k's 300 Samsara last night for the second time, and noticed a rattle on the left side when moving around.  Sounds like the driver is rattling around.  Returns to China are expensive and generally not worth the hassle...... is there any way to fix this?   Thank you.


----------



## snip3r77

doggiemom said:


> I was listening to the K's k's 300 Samsara last night for the second time, and noticed a rattle on the left side when moving around.  Sounds like the driver is rattling around.  Returns to China are expensive and generally not worth the hassle...... is there any way to fix this?   Thank you.


It’s not expensive to ship back as the item is small. PM the seller


----------



## noknok23

Try blow air in the shell. Maybe it's an hair or dust that came in


----------



## theoutsider

doggiemom said:


> I was listening to the K's k's 300 Samsara last night for the second time, and noticed a rattle on the left side when moving around.  Sounds like the driver is rattling around.  Returns to China are expensive and generally not worth the hassle...... is there any way to fix this?   Thank you.


I have the same problem with my Moondrop Nameless :/


----------



## vladstef (Sep 30, 2017)

doggiemom said:


> I was listening to the K's k's 300 Samsara last night for the second time, and noticed a rattle on the left side when moving around.  Sounds like the driver is rattling around.  Returns to China are expensive and generally not worth the hassle...... is there any way to fix this?   Thank you.





cursing said:


> I have the same problem with my Moondrop Nameless :/



Yeah, this is a very common issue with so many earbuds, I've had it with Vidos and EMX500. I've tried many many things but one thing ended up fixing it for both. Also, keep in mind that my EMX had rattling so much that it started to make all kinds of different 'something is very wrong' noises.
The thing that fixed it was this: open them up (these front covers are usually easy to open, EMX had a lot of glue but it was manageable in the end), be careful not to damage the membrane if the speaker fully pops out of front cover as membrane isn't fixed to the rest of the driver. Once it's open, look at the driver, there should be some sticky slimy glue holding it a bit in place, carefully scrape it off with a knife and then you can pull the driver out. Once it's out, locate the thin coil wires going to the membrane, this is the only thing that you need to protect, and obviously don't do anything to the membrane itself, other than what I did. Now it's time to start moving the membrane holding it by it's sides, try to separate it from the rest of the driver, just a little and obviously the part where coil wires are must remain close to each other. With my pair, there was some glue very close to coil wires between membrane and rest of the driver, and it wasn't supposed to be there. Once you separate them nicely so that you know that this kind of glue is no longer active, it's time to slightly shift the membrane, twist it. It has very little wiggle room due to coil wires being short and fragile, but just enough can be done. Put everything together and test it.
I had to open my emx about 30 times before I fixed it, twisting the membrane a bit ended up being the thing that worked, and it did instantly (twisting it compared to the rest of the driver, perhaps if the coil wires aren't exactly where they should be, they end up pulling on the membrane, it's just a wild guess).
One more thing, I've never opened earbuds before and was a complete noob to anything DIY audio wise, although it looks kinda scary, it's really simple and I didn't damage anything even on my first try. Here is a photo that I posted a couple months ago that might be useful.
On this driver, and they are all so very similar in shape and components, gently hold this yellow ring and pull it up, angling it towards the V cutout where the coil wires are, and after all of the glue is gone, every so slightly twist it and put it back.


----------



## golov17

cursing said:


> I have the same problem with my Moondrop Nameless :/


likewise with my Mojito


----------



## sagor1 (Oct 1, 2017)

I just ordered the
*K's Earphone K300 300ohm *earphone.
Now i have question.
https://imgur.com/a/BtXNZ
1.What is that thing i marked on the picture?
2.I see there is a 2kind of foam 1 was cutout in both side & other one is just regular.Why 2types?


----------



## theoutsider

golov17 said:


> likewise with my Mojito


Lol, your Mojito is a very expensive version of EMX500.
I read that Rose Tech operated with only 10 employees in 2016. That includes 2 designers and 5 technicians. The owner himself doubles as the customer service rep.


----------



## vladstef (Sep 30, 2017)

golov17 said:


> likewise with my Mojito



Dear god, I could understand this rattling issues with cheaper earbuds, but Mojito... Can it even be opened properly? Does one possess the courage to even think about trying to fix it? So many hard questions, hopefully no one will ever have to answer them, and for the ones that do, our thoughts and prayers are with you!


----------



## HungryPanda

sagor1 said:


> I just ordered the
> *K's Earphone K300 300ohm *earphone.
> Now i have question.
> 1.What is that thing i marked on the picture?
> 2.I see there is a 2kind of foam 1 was cutout in both side & other one is just regular.Why 2types?



You have a choice of sound, either full foam or donut foam


----------



## golov17

vladstef said:


> Dear god, I could understand this rattling issues with cheaper earbuds, but Mojito... Can it even be opened properly? Does one possess the courage to even think about trying to fix it? So many hard questions, hopefully no one will ever have to answer them, and for the ones that do, our thoughts and prayers are with you!


I sent them for repair to China, but the fact is that the warranty in 1 year has already passed, so I'm not sure about the result ..


----------



## theoutsider (Sep 30, 2017)

golov17 said:


> I sent them for repair to China, but the fact is that the warranty in 1 year has already passed, so I'm not sure about the result ..


You are not alone. The official Rose Tech forum on Baidu is plagued by complaints about their QC. Some of them sent in their buds for repairs as well.


----------



## golov17

cursing said:


> You are not alone. The official Rose Tech forum on Baidu is plagued by complaints about their QC. Some of them sent in their buds for repairs as well.


at least my two pairs of Masya are still in working order


----------



## jogawag

cursing said:


> You are not alone. The official Rose Tech forum on Baidu is plagued by complaints about their QC. Some of them sent in their buds for repairs as well.


Perhaps it is a problem due to the QC of fragility of 2 Pin part of Rose Mojito? I am concerned about my Mojito...


----------



## theoutsider

golov17 said:


> at least my two pairs of Masya are still in working order


So 3 pairs of your Rose-buds are in Sichuan (Szechuan) now?


----------



## theoutsider (Sep 30, 2017)

jogawag said:


> Perhaps it is a problem due to the QC of fragility of 2 Pin part of Rose Mojito? I am concerned about my Mojito...


Ya, apparently the 2 pins sockets are the weakest links.


----------



## golov17

jogawag said:


> Perhaps it is a problem due to the QC of fragility of 2 Pin part of Rose Mojito? I am concerned about my Mojito...


 No, problem with bass driver


----------



## theoutsider (Sep 30, 2017)

golov17 said:


> No, problem with bass driver


Rose dual dynamic design is inspired by (or based on?) Technics RP-HV100. The earphone is 29 years old now, I wonder anyone here has it or used to have it?


----------



## theoutsider




----------



## jogawag

cursing said:


>


In the picture, the RP-HV 50 has a shape closer to Rose Mojito ...
But for me they are too old Earbuds so I first learned about that Earbuds.


----------



## vladstef

So, I ended up putting my babies for sale today. EMX500 made my Meze 99s obsolete. Even though I liked Meze better, it was only by a very small margin and was mostly due to slightly bloated lower mid-range of EMX in its current state (something that I will find a way to change with foam experimentation, I think..). Mezes also have a slightly clearer sound but harsher in a way, even though they are perfectly smooth in an isolated environment.

Kind of a sad day given how little issues I've had with 99s and how amazing they made me feel at times. It took me a month to realize and accept that a 10$ earbud did this, saying this really makes me feel like I'm slightly dead inside.

Oh well, here is to an amazing earbud-driven future!


----------



## snip3r77

vladstef said:


> So, I ended up putting my babies for sale today. EMX500 made my Meze 99s obsolete. Even though I liked Meze better, it was only by a very small margin and was mostly due to slightly bloated lower mid-range of EMX in its current state (something that I will find a way to change with foam experimentation, I think..). Mezes also have a slightly clearer sound but harsher in a way, even though they are perfectly smooth in an isolated environment.
> 
> Kind of a sad day given how little issues I've had with 99s and how amazing they made me feel at times. It took me a month to realize and accept that a 10$ earbud did this, saying this really makes me feel like I'm slightly dead inside.
> 
> Oh well, here is to an amazing earbud-driven future!


I have a graphene incoming too


----------



## vladstef

snip3r77 said:


> I have a graphene incoming too



Many people have praised graphene earbud, perhaps it's time to order a pair as well. Can anyone compare EMX500 to Svara-L for example? I just love the design of it, but I can't imagine it being a true upgrade to EMX.


----------



## Saoshyant

vladstef said:


> Many people have praised graphene earbud, perhaps it's time to order a pair as well. Can anyone compare EMX500 to Svara-L for example? I just love the design of it, but I can't imagine it being a true upgrade to EMX.



Going off original Svara, EMX is more balanced where Svara-L might be the closest to a basshead earbud I've heard.  It's still really great for vocals with a bassy tilt for fun.  Svara-L is my EDC.


----------



## HungryPanda

I much prefer the Svara-L to the EMX500 but love listening to both.


----------



## thelonius97

I know this isn't the best place to ask, but whatever. I've always made an effort to separate both the ends of my earbuds, but does it really matter if they stick together (by magnetism)?


----------



## Frederick Wang

Astrotec releases a new TOTL earbud, at least the price is:
https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?s...ne=taobao_shop&sku_properties=5919063:6536025
32ohm version @ around 300 usd
150ohm version @ around 400 usd


----------



## golov17

Frederick Wang said:


> Astrotec releases a new TOTL earbud, at least the price is:
> https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?s...ne=taobao_shop&sku_properties=5919063:6536025
> 32ohm version @ around 300 usd
> 150ohm version @ around 400 usd


300-400 usd, wow


----------



## snip3r77

golov17 said:


> 300-400 usd, wow


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> 300-400 usd, wow



The way I see problem with that kind of pricing is that - neither Lyra 6 nor Lyra Classic (Astrotec previous 2nd and 3rd gen flagship earbuds) can be considered ToTL sounding, nor did I find their pricing to be particularly worthy of the SQ they have. So I'll have to wonder how can they justify the new flagship's over-the-top pricing when they have failed to do so (in both SQ and value) in the past? Either these new earbuds really do improve A LOT from the current model, or Astrotec needs to price their earbuds more sensibly.


----------



## Frederick Wang

ClieOS said:


> The way I see problem with that kind of pricing is that - neither Lyra 6 nor Lyra Classic (Astrotec previous 2nd and 3rd gen flagship earbuds) can be considered ToTL sounding, nor did I find their pricing to be particularly worthy of the SQ they have. So I'll have to wonder how can they justify the new flagship's over-the-top pricing when they have failed to do so (in both SQ and value) in the past? Either these new earbuds really do improve A LOT from the current model, or Astrotec needs to price their earbuds more sensibly.


My totally ungrounded guess would be that, Astrotec aim for the niche market in which buyers buy an earphone in accordance with pricing, regardless of SQ, a philosophy Dr. Fang, boss of HiFiman, blatantly confessed in Baidu tieba.


----------



## sagor1

HungryPanda said:


> You have a choice of sound, either full foam or donut foam


I update my post.Can you now ans my 1st que?


----------



## HungryPanda

sagor1 said:


> I just ordered the
> *K's Earphone K300 300ohm *earphone.
> Now i have question.
> https://imgur.com/a/BtXNZ
> ...



That is a silicone ring, you can fit that under a foam to make the fit more secure or just use earbud bare


----------



## ClieOS

Frederick Wang said:


> My totally ungrounded guess would be that, Astrotec aim for the niche market in which buyers buy an earphone in accordance with pricing, regardless of SQ, a philosophy Dr. Fang, boss of HiFiman, blatantly confessed in Baidu tieba.



Oh no, don't get me wrong - I have no problem with a company trying to build it up as a luxury brand and sells overpriced products. However, I'll assume any of such brand will make sure its products can be qualitatively competitive in the market. Hifiman might have some really expensive headphone to sell, but last I checked, those are also some of the best sounding headphone in the world. I will have problem if Shangri-La sounds like a pair of Beats by Dre, but not if it can go up against the new Orpheus or a well setup SR-009 - and that's really what I was wondering here: are these new Astrotec really the ToTL sounding earbuds that they should be? As that certainly ain't the case last two times around.


----------



## bonson

Very good combo lgv20->tube amp vali2 -high grain->vido. 
Instrument separation.Soundstage Depth Bass slam. Every characteristics is better performed. I am very surprised how well earbuds pair with tube amp. I have to reconsider each last cheap earbuds with this configuration. Vido. Mx500 pk1 ...


----------



## Frederick Wang

ClieOS said:


> Oh no, don't get me wrong - I have no problem with a company trying to build it up as a luxury brand and sells overpriced products. However, I'll assume any of such brand will make sure its products can be qualitatively competitive in the market. Hifiman might have some really expensive headphone to sell, but last I checked, those are also some of the best sounding headphone in the world. I will have problem if Shangri-La sounds like a pair of Beats by Dre, but not if it can go up against the new Orpheus or a well setup SR-009 - and that's really what I was wondering here: are these new Astrotec really the ToTL sounding earbuds that they should be? As that certainly ain't the case last two times around.


I agree with you 100%. I wasn't saying HiFiman makes crappy earphone, they make great earphones (crappy QC sometimes though), just a pricing strategy I cannot get on board with that was expressed by Dr. Fang. I have no problem with them charging 50,000 usd for Shangri-La, premium price for premium product, fair enough. But they also make it a habit to cut the price in half a lot of their products, many early customers are understandably pissed. 
Price does influence perception of SQ, you don't appreciate enough until it costs enough, a tendency some sellers are not shy away from cashing in on.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 5, 2017)

Does anyone know whether the Diy PK1 at NiceHCK (https://m.aliexpress.com/item//32823569005.html) and the Diy PK2 at a certain shop are the same product?
Or does anyone know whether the Diy PK2 sound like EMX500?

I have only the Diy PK1 and EMX500. And I like the sound of EMX500.
If the Diy PK2 and EMX500 sound the same, I will buy the Diy PK2.

Please teach me.

Edit:
Later I inquired and confirmed at HCK that the Diy PK1 and the Diy PK2 are the same product.


----------



## HungryPanda

The emx500 has a touch more bass and a bigger shell than the PK2


----------



## jogawag (Oct 2, 2017)

HungryPanda said:


> The emx500 has a touch more bass and a bigger shell than the PK2


Thank you very much.
Because selling the EMX500 and Diy PK2 on the same page makes customers confusing, it's not good...


----------



## redkingjoe

bonson said:


> Very good combo lgv20->tube amp vali2 -high grain->vido.
> Instrument separation.Soundstage Depth Bass slam. Every characteristics is better performed. I am very surprised how well earbuds pair with tube amp. I have to reconsider each last cheap earbuds with this configuration. Vido. Mx500 pk1 ...



Earbud is also great to discern the quality of tubes! Tube amp and dac have great musicality.

When I was a kid, i started collecting vintage small tubes...of ecc81, 82, 83, and 88. These are just 1/5.


----------



## BloodyPenguin




----------



## bonson

redkingjoe said:


> Earbud is also great to discern the quality of tubes! Tube amp and dac have great musicality.
> 
> When I was a kid, i started collecting vintage small tubes...of ecc81, 82, 83, and 88. These are just 1/5.


 You're very lucky. A lot of experiments to do.  I only ve got 3 tubes. A Tad A Genalex golden and the one that came with the amp. Tube are expensive now. At my surprise I notice more improvements with the vido. A margin improvement with the Samsara and Shozy BK.


----------



## snip3r77

ClieOS said:


> Oh no, don't get me wrong - I have no problem with a company trying to build it up as a luxury brand and sells overpriced products. However, I'll assume any of such brand will make sure its products can be qualitatively competitive in the market. Hifiman might have some really expensive headphone to sell, but last I checked, those are also some of the best sounding headphone in the world. I will have problem if Shangri-La sounds like a pair of Beats by Dre, but not if it can go up against the new Orpheus or a well setup SR-009 - and that's really what I was wondering here: are these new Astrotec really the ToTL sounding earbuds that they should be? As that certainly ain't the case *last two times around*.



But you can't assume the present...


----------



## ClieOS (Oct 2, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> But you can't assume the present...



I said that exact same thing just before I bought Lyra Classic when I already feel that I had overpaid for the Lyra 6 - I was willingly to give them one more chance back then to prove themselves, but it still came as another disappointment.. So this is not just a mere empty assumption but an attempt to learn from one's previous mistake_*s*_. On one hand, I'll be happy to know that the new earbuds do actually improve THAT much to warrant the very high price; on the other hand, I don't want to feel that I have gotten burnt the 3rd times - and how many times a man needs to get burnt before he quits? All I am saying here is, Astrotec has a lot to prove, given their track record so far.


----------



## snip3r77

ClieOS said:


> I said that exact same thing just before I bought Lyra Classic when I already feel that I had overpaid for the Lyra 6 - I was willingly to give them one more chance back then to prove themselves, but it still came as another disappointment.. So this is not just a mere empty assumption but an attempt to learn from one's previous mistake_*s*_. On one hand, I'll be happy to know that the new earbuds do actually improve THAT much to warrant the very high price; on the other hand, I don't want to feel that I have gotten burnt the 3rd times - and how many times a man needs to get burnt before he quits? All I am saying here is, Astrotec has a lot to prove, given their track record so far.


Ok noted bro. Appreciate tour feedback .


----------



## sagor1 (Oct 3, 2017)

HungryPanda said:


> That is a silicone ring, you can fit that under a foam to make the fit more secure or just use earbud bare


I just received my product.I saw the pictures on aliexpress feedback all of them get 8 set of foams.
They send me only 3 sets.All of them are donut foam.
Should i buy normal foam?


----------



## sagor1

I just received my most anticipated product buy from online.
*The K's Earphone K300.
I am not audiophile.But i am so much excited to hear the high impedance earphone sound.But I can't hear any magical difference compare to my apple earpods.Actually my apple earpods sound like more open to me.*
*I tested it on my lg g6 quad dac.When i enable my dac it's only gain the volume.Other wise it's too low.
Bit disappointed.Though my only aim to buy this earphone to check what is quad dac sound like.
Any recommend you guys to buy other earphone that can increase my audio experience level at lower price range earphone.Or should i stick with them?*


----------



## prone2phone (Nov 13, 2017)

Some thoughts on Qian69. Overall nice sound good technically and musically.Bass tight and fast. I can hear the membrane of a drum gets hit. Tight guitars. Good positioning of instruments and voices. But the midrange has some dip and is a little dry. So in this department I prefer both emx 500 and Vido for vocals. Good transition from mids to highs, but there is some minor metallic aftertaste. Cymbals crash nicely.
As someone said they are very comfortable and stable in the ears. Combined with a chin slider should be possible to do some light jogging and the lightweight cable also helps.  Also like them aesthetically and the box they came in. Overall I think Qian 69 could make a nice small present.
Edit: took yincrow x6 out of the drawer and I like their sound much more than qian. It seems qian has some weirdness in the sound cant say why.
Edit2: but yincrow has too thick of a bass, where is my vido. There is too much confusion, there must be some kind of way out of here.


----------



## snip3r77

prone2phone said:


> Some thoughts on Qian69. Overall nice sound good technically and musically.Bass tight and fast. I can hear the membrane of a drum gets hit. Tight guitars. Good positioning of instruments and voices. But the midrange has some dip and is a little dry. So in this department I prefer both emx 500 and Vido for vocals. Good transition from mids to highs, but there is some minor metallic aftertaste. Cymbals crash nicely.
> As someone said they are very comfortable and stable in the ears. Combined with a chin slider should be possible to do some light jogging and the lightweight cable also helps.  Also like them aesthetically and the box they came in. Overall I think Qian 69 could make a nice small present.


Thanks for the reminder. I’m getting Vidos for my headfi friends


----------



## cathee

sagor1 said:


> I just received my most anticipated product buy from online.
> *The K's Earphone K300.
> I am not audiophile.But i am so much excited to hear the high impedance earphone sound.But I can't hear any magical difference compare to my apple earpods.Actually my apple earpods sound like more open to me.
> I tested it on my lg g6 quad dac.When i enable my dac it's only gain the volume.Other wise it's too low.
> ...



I was initially very unimpressed with my K300s too. But be patient, let them burn in for a while and find a good amp to drive them. I've really come to enjoy them.


----------



## sagor1

cathee said:


> I was initially very unimpressed with my K300s too. But be patient, let them burn in for a while and find a good amp to drive them. I've really come to enjoy them.


I read many websites that earphone burning is just a hoax.My only option to drive this earphone is my phone.


----------



## ctaxxxx

sagor1 said:


> I read many websites that earphone burning is just a hoax.My only option to drive this earphone is my phone.



How reliable is your phone in terms of power? Usually for high ohm earbuds, you need an amp or a reliable dap. My iPhone can get some earbuds to reasonable volume, but it will sound thin and lifeless. Usually for phones, you want an earbud that's more efficient.


----------



## HungryPanda (Oct 3, 2017)

I have K300 and K600 and use them with my desktop amp would not use them on my phone and not even my daps, the K300's sound ok from my Fiio x5iii but still better from my amp


----------



## sagor1

ctaxxxx said:


> How reliable is your phone in terms of power? Usually for high ohm earbuds, you need an amp or a reliable dap. My iPhone can get some earbuds to reasonable volume, but it will sound thin and lifeless. Usually for phones, you want an earbud that's more efficient.


It's use Sabre ES9218+ Dac,


----------



## ctaxxxx

sagor1 said:


> It's use Sabre ES9218+ Dac,



That's just a DAC though. What I'm talking about is the amp. DAC just determines how clear your music will sound. Amp determines how loud your music can get.


----------



## cathee

sagor1 said:


> I read many websites that earphone burning is just a hoax.My only option to drive this earphone is my phone.



Pretty much what's already been said. You have a decent DAC I assume (no exp with the LG) but what you need is an amp with enough power to drive 300 ohms. 

I initially listened to the K300s with my iPhone and was severely disappointed, thought it was worse than the already unimpressive Monk+. But once I ran it though the Mojo, it was significantly better. Kinda defeats the purpose of having something so compact and portable if you have to pair it with a chunky amp but tis the price you pay to be an audiophile, headphile or whateverphile.


----------



## waynes world

ctaxxxx said:


> That's just a DAC though. What I'm talking about is the amp. DAC just determines how clear your music will sound. Amp determines how loud your music can get.



+1. Even my 20ohm graphenes scale up nicely with an amp. Although they sound great straight off of my phone or off of a dap such as the colorfly c3, they really come to life when paired up with an amp.


----------



## sagor1 (Oct 3, 2017)

Ooo i thought amp and dac is same thing.I noob.
Btw i have open a thread in Help & Recommend section in there one member called "*ProtegeManiac" *he suggest some earphone.
Here is my initial thought-

TFZ Series 1S or 5S (My 1st choice because of looks.But in review all i see complaining about Heavy Bass.So i guess i can't use this for long time listing )

KZ ZS3 or ZST (Don't like it)

Mee Audio M6 Pro (My 3rd choice,kind of final choice.It's the most popular among on his list.)

VSonic VS3DS (Like it for brand.But its lack of bass.)

Waiting for your thought about this & also other recommendation earphone



ctaxxxx said:


> That's just a DAC though. What I'm talking about is the amp. DAC just determines how clear your music will sound. Amp determines how loud your music can get.





cathee said:


> Pretty much what's already been said. You have a decent DAC I assume (no exp with the LG) but what you need is an amp with enough power to drive 300 ohms.
> 
> I initially listened to the K300s with my iPhone and was severely disappointed, thought it was worse than the already unimpressive Monk+. But once I ran it though the Mojo, it was significantly better. Kinda defeats the purpose of having something so compact and portable if you have to pair it with a chunky amp but tis the price you pay to be an audiophile, headphile or whateverphile.


.


----------



## teesui (Oct 3, 2017)

sagor1 said:


> Ooo i thought amp and dac is same thing.I noob.
> Btw i have open a thread in Help & Recommend section in there one member called "*ProtegeManiac" *he suggest some earphone.
> Here is my initial thought-
> 
> ...




The Chi-fi IEM thread will be more helpful to you than here.

Edit: link


----------



## waynes world

sagor1 said:


> Waiting for your thought about this & also other recommendation earphone



We all be earbud snobs over here lol. 

But I'd recommend checking out the DM5's (BGVP SIDY DM5) that are all the rage here (I'm even thinking of getting some):
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...d-mee-audio-px.586909/page-2248#post-13758559


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 3, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> Thanks for the reminder. I’m getting Vidos for my headfi friends


Vido's are overhyped for me. Yes for €3 they are phenomenal but I preferred the Monks. The Vido bass was just too boomy and the mids were grainy. Nonetheless I can't complain at the price.

So my DIY PK2's that were giving issues I got a 50% refund rather than bothering returning them. This allowed me to open them up and attempt a repair. I cut and resoldered the wire end which was damaged on one earbud. That seemed to have fixed the issue. I let the buds burn in for 10 hours and I'm pleasantly surprised by these earbuds. I'm using them with Heigi donut foams with seem to bring out the best sound (still need to test monk thin foams when I get more soon).

The are incredibly easy to drive. 40% volume off of my iphone 6s had them at a high level. Lots of energy too.

The sound is pretty well balanced and very 'full' with impressive sub bass and tight punchy mid bass. Slightly warm mids that are very sweet. The natural tone of vocals are pleasing, vocals are slightly laid back on some tracks but not overly so. Clarity is moderate to good but not exceptional, although on tracks that are more vocal oriented they sound great. High's are detailed and energetic, treble is sparkly. Not overly tiresome though. I'd consider it high's done right!

When opening up the housing to repair the wire I had the idea to turn the driver/grille 45 degrees towards the front on each earbud. This allowed the front vents to align with the ear canal and resulted in better clarity and in my opinion a tonely better sound as the venting is shozy cygnus style and not fully vented on top and bottom.

My one complaint would be the soundstage. Whilst it did improve somewhat after burn in. do find it's only modest width and depth. Until I burn them in for 50+ hours I won't know if the soundstage will grow more but time will tell I guess. But throw acoustic and electric guitar at it and vocal tracks and wow it's a brilliant budget earbud. Also the separation is decent but not brilliant either and some busy tracks can start to sound slighty congested.

I'd easily recommend this earbud for €16-19 (I got the €19 gold/brown cable version from NiceHCK but the silver for version looks just as good for €17). It's perfect for mobile devices as it requires little power run well and it delivers a great warm, energetic and balanced sound signature for the price.

Now to get my EMX500 and compare them


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Vido's are overhyped for me. Yes for €3 they are phenomenal but I preferred the Monks. The Vido bass was just too boomy and the mids were grainy. Nonetheless I can't complain at the price.



do try recable them. i acquired a recabled vido, and it is better than my EMX500 in extension and clarity


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> do try recable them. i acquired a recabled vido, and it is better than my EMX500 in extension and clarity


Ok that's interesting. Thanks I'll try that!


----------



## wskl

seanc6441 said:


> I'm using them with Heigi donut foams with seem to bring out the best sound (still need to test monk thin foams when I get more soon).



I like them with the Monk+ thin foams, I find that the donuts make the bass a bit bloated.




seanc6441 said:


> My one complaint would be the soundstage. Whilst it did improve somewhat after burn in. do find it's only modest width and depth. Until I burn them in for 50+ hours I won't know if the soundstage will grow more but time will tell I guess. But throw acoustic and electric guitar at it and vocal tracks and wow it's a brilliant budget earbud. Also the separation is decent but not brilliant either and some busy tracks can start to sound slighty congested.



Soundstage improved for me after 200hrs burn-in, a bit more airier and wider.


----------



## seanc6441

wskl said:


> I like them with the Monk+ thin foams, I find that the donuts make the bass a bit bloated.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good to know. Bass presence is big with the donut and full foams but I do think it's a well controlled bass and not too boomy. Although I definitely want to try monk foams to bring out the best balance in them.

Also thanks for the burn in info I'll do that when I get the chance.

It's a very nice all rounder earbud.


----------



## sagor1

waynes world said:


> We all be earbud snobs over here lol.
> 
> But I'd recommend checking out the DM5's (BGVP SIDY DM5) that are all the rage here (I'm even thinking of getting some):
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...d-mee-audio-px.586909/page-2248#post-13758559


I don't mind whether it's earbud or earphone.
BTW thanx for suggestion.


----------



## GREQ

I was told to post this here...
Some almost vintage goodness.
*Aiwa HP-V551*
Interesting design feature is the inflated silicone tips/bubbles.


----------



## bud11

hi guys, who made the best diy pk1 (close to the real yuin) ?  nicehck or **** or other?


----------



## springbay

doggiemom said:


> I was listening to the K's k's 300 Samsara last night for the second time, and noticed a rattle on the left side when moving around.  Sounds like the driver is rattling around.  Returns to China are expensive and generally not worth the hassle...... is there any way to fix this?   Thank you.



Hopefully you will not need to worry. My pair of Samsara rattled at some deep bass tones for short while as well, but it disappeared after further burn in. But I got worried as well when that happened between lets say hour 15 up until hour 20 something... Honestly I have no idea exactly when the rattling started and stopped. Just that they after further burn in found them selves after me pushing some heavy EDM through them.
So yeah, I believe that burn in is a thing.


----------



## Danneq

GREQ said:


> I was told to post this here...
> Some almost vintage goodness.
> *Aiwa HP-V551*
> Interesting design feature is the inflated silicone tips/bubbles.



The old Aiwas are beautiful. But unless you go with the TOTL earbuds (HP V9, V99 or D9) you would be better off with a pair of current budget earbuds...


----------



## GREQ

Danneq said:


> The old Aiwas are beautiful. But unless you go with the TOTL earbuds (HP V9, V99 or D9) you would be better off with a pair of current budget earbuds...


Have you tried these out? (HP-V551) If so, what was your impression?


----------



## Danneq

Not the V551 specifically, but HP V741, S400 (short cable for use with minidisc remotes), D2 & D6. V741 had nice bass and D2 a nice airy sound but they are blown away by Vido and DIY PK2 in respective category. I have also owned HP V1 (Aiwa's first earbud in 1982), V2, V99 and I still own D9. 

Of the ones I've heard only V1, V99 and D9 can compete with current earbuds. However the old TOTL earbuds have a special sound. Quite "dry" compared to the TOTL earbuds of today.

This page is a great reference for old Aiwa ear- and headphones:
http://20cheaddatebase.web.fc2.com/AIWA/aiwaindex.html


----------



## GREQ

Hmm... I was hoping you weren't going to say that. 
I'm already fairly impressed with the V551, and only got it for a bit of fun. It was the first time I heard a bud truly better than the ipod buds. (almost total bud noob here, but been doing headphones for over 15 years) 
I had to use that japanese database to even find out what it was in the first place, since it's not stamped/printed on the bud or case.
I've already bought a V22 just for fun, so that should arrive next week.  I'd like to see how the older ones compare.


----------



## Danneq

I was crazy about vintage earbuds a few years ago. I was even prepared to pay €600 for a pair of Aiwa V9 in mint condition (that Ebay auction ended at over €800). However a few years ago really good DIY budget earbuds started being released so gradually I abandoned vintage earbud collecting. Vintage Aiwa and Sony earbuds are not bad but nowadays you can get some amazing sounding budget earbuds (considering the price). However that old design is really cool and beats the boring Sennheiser style housings used by most makers.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 4, 2017)

I also want to know about below.
Which is the best product of diy pk1 or pk2 (close to the real yuin)  in aliexpress or taobao?
Does any one know? Please teach me.


----------



## HungryPanda

All I know is I got the nicehck diy pk2 from aliexpress and it sounds really good


----------



## jogawag (Oct 5, 2017)

HungryPanda said:


> All I know is I got the nicehck diy pk2 from aliexpress and it sounds really good


Thank you for your fast reply.
HCK sells many diy pk2 s. So please teach me the page URL and the number of coloir.


----------



## HungryPanda

https://m.aliexpress.com/s/item/32826259520.html?spm=a2g0n.orderList.0.0.21ab9c83hmLbTq&


----------



## theoutsider

jogawag said:


> .
> Thank you for your fast reply.
> HCK sells many diy pk2 s. So please teach me the page URL and the number of coloir.



I wonder if you are Headphone Metal (Janne M8) who writes on Livedoor?


----------



## jogawag (Oct 4, 2017)

HungryPanda said:


> https://m.aliexpress.com/s/item/32826259520.html?spm=a2g0n.orderList.0.0.21ab9c83hmLbTq&


Thank you for your very fast reply. But I have already that by Mr. golov17's recommendation...
Does anyone know's about ( https://m.aliexpress.com/item//32801437048.html )?


----------



## jogawag

cursing said:


> I wonder if you are Headphone Metal (Janne M8) who writes on Livedoor?


Not I am. But I read the blog of Headphone Metal who writes on Livedoor.


----------



## theoutsider

jogawag said:


> Not I am. But I read the blog of Headphone Metal who writes on Livedoor.


Oh, he spoke very highly of the Moondrops, especially Liebesleid that he recently reviewed.


----------



## jogawag

cursing said:


> Oh, he spoke very highly of the Moondrops, especially Liebesleid that he recently reviewed.


In Japan the Moondrop Liebesleid Japanese version in Fujiya-Avic is very popular. So it was sold out twice.


----------



## theoutsider (Oct 4, 2017)

jogawag said:


> In Japan the Moondrop Liebesleid Japanese version in Fujiya-Avic is very popular. So it was sold out twice.


Moondrop released VX-J specially for jp market, it looks like a flatback version of VX pro. The jp version of Liebesleid has silver cable with red stripes (probably just a color variant). The brand seems to be selling well in jp.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Now to get my EMX500 and compare them



Since I'm so interested in your comparisons, you might as well get the graphenes while you're at it! 

The PK2's are getting mentioned a lot lately, so they have piqued my interest. I am so happy with the graphenes (and emx500's) that I feel I'm set for a while. But you know how it is lol - those PK2's sound interesting...


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 5, 2017)

waynes world said:


> Since I'm so interested in your comparisons, you might as well get the graphenes while you're at it!
> 
> The PK2's are getting mentioned a lot lately, so they have piqued my interest. I am so happy with the graphenes (and emx500's) that I feel I'm set for a while. But you know how it is lol - those PK2's sound interesting...



EMX500/Masya arrived yesterday but I need to let them burn in before I comment. PK2 is a different kind of beast. The soundstage or separation cannot compare but the energy and balanced tone are fantastic.

Listen to ACDC thunderstruck and everything is so powerful. The bass slam on the drums is jaw dropping.

The high's are done perfectly as well imo, sparkly and detailed, but never tiresome to my ears. Thanks to the warmth it never feels harsh.

If this earbud had a soundstage and separation like emx500 it would comfortably be the best value earbud. I've heard 200 hours of burn in changes the soundstage but by how much I'm not sure, it's probably never going to be a airy and open sounding bud, but that's ok.

For some tracks like rock and acoustic it's a beast, for more busy and complex music it struggles.

Use it right and you'll love it though.


----------



## snip3r77

jogawag said:


> In Japan the Moondrop Liebesleid Japanese version in Fujiya-Avic is very popular. So it was sold out twice.


Moondrop is a brand from?


----------



## theoutsider

snip3r77 said:


> Moondrop is a brand from?


ChengDu, China. 
The brand name 水月雨 literally means water, moon, rain.


----------



## kurtextrem

I guess we have a new earbud


----------



## noknok23 (Oct 5, 2017)

I am not a big fan of PK2S... EDIT: i actually don't know this white and pink PK2 from Nicehck.. Big fan of Nicehck earbuds. Curious to hear. I want to try V-Friend from thailand. Anyone has it?


----------



## jogawag (Oct 5, 2017)

noknok23 said:


> I am not a big fan of PK2S... EDIT: i actually don't know this white and pink PK2 from Nicehck.. Big fan of Nicehck earbuds. Curious to hear. I want to try V-Friend from thailand. Anyone has it?


Thank you.
Certainly, PK2s seems to be the most expensive product in the famous Diy PK1/2 products.
So, HCK seems to have the most diverse products of Diy PK1/2, so I will check with HCK.
(But it seems to be China National Day now, so may the reply be late?)


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 5, 2017)

HungryPanda said:


> https://m.aliexpress.com/s/item/32826259520.html?spm=a2g0n.orderList.0.0.21ab9c83hmLbTq&


I got this version
http://s.aliexpress.com/INVFFBnQ

Wonder if there's a difference. I paid €19 for the best cable.

Update on my PK2 impressions. I found a pair of monk thin foams and stuck them on instead of the heigi foams. Now the buds have slightly more airy sound and space and clarity. Now I rate these buds even higher! Downside is you lose abit of bass impact and rumble, so if your a basshead stick with heigi donuts and if you feel they need extra clarity and airy sound go with the monk foams.

They really do need a long burn in though to get the most out of them I feel.


----------



## jogawag

seanc6441 said:


> I got this version
> http://s.aliexpress.com/INVFFBnQ
> 
> Wonde if there's a difference. I paid €19 for the best cable.
> ...



Thank you.
I will check also  this version with HCK.


----------



## seanc6441

jogawag said:


> Thank you.
> I will check also  this version with HCK.


Judging by price alone this version SHOULD  be better... but you never know unless you ask.

PK2S is €21 so maybe that's even better again? Who knows.


----------



## 93EXCivic

seanc6441 said:


> EMX500/Masya arrived yesterday but I need to let them burn in before I comment. PK2 is a different kind of beast. The soundstage or separation cannot compare but the energy and balanced tone are fantastic.
> 
> Listen to ACDC thunderstruck and everything is so powerful. The bass slam on the drums is jaw dropping.
> 
> ...



Bass slam on NiceHCK PK2? I must have a very different pair of DIY PK2s then you. My reaction to the PK2 was also completely reversed to that.


----------



## acap13

Maybe, we can now start to be a little bit specific on the DIY PK2 variants from now on. PK2 and PK2S are two very different earbuds. They are just sharing the same Yuin housing. Cable and driver are totally different. Sometimes I'm having a hard time to distinguish between pk2, PK2s and PK2S. Sorry about the ranting but i guess this need to be more specific in the future conversation. Maybe?


----------



## noknok23

hoo actually i know nicehck PK2  I was super confused too, i have the old version with the silver cable that turn green, they are awesome!! especially for vocals. not the best technically but they have a very sweet non fatiguing sound. They need long break in , like 200/300hours. Highly recommended by me and many others... PK2S is worse imo, but i haven't break them in that long so... you never know. From what the seller told me, the pk2 doesn't have different sound with different cables, you are paying only for cosmetics and comfort.


----------



## seanc6441

93EXCivic said:


> Bass slam on NiceHCK PK2? I must have a very different pair of DIY PK2s then you. My reaction to the PK2 was also completely reversed to that.


With Heigi foams they have bass impact and tight bass also. With monk foams it's less impact.

Way superior bass to most earbuds and much better than Vido's boomy bass IMO.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 5, 2017)

acap13 said:


> Maybe, we can now start to be a little bit specific on the DIY PK2 variants from now on. PK2 and PK2S are two very different earbuds. They are just sharing the same Yuin housing. Cable and driver are totally different. Sometimes I'm having a hard time to distinguish between pk2, PK2s and PK2S. Sorry about the ranting but i guess this need to be more specific in the future conversation. Maybe?



I have NiceHCK DIY PK2 cable version 3 (most expensive). Regardless of the cable ,although some say version one sounds darker (probably just driver variances) I think these buds sound awesome. Can't say about the new PK2S with 'Panda' inscribed on them. They are slightly more expensive that's all I know.

As NokNok23 says his version 2 silver cable and my version 3 brown/gold cable should sound the same. Only durability differences possibly.


----------



## 93EXCivic

seanc6441 said:


> With Heigi foams they have bass impact and tight bass also. With monk foams it's less impact.
> 
> Way superior bass to most earbuds and much better than Vido's boomy bass IMO.



Heigi full foams? Mine currently have Heigi donuts and they are an earlier version the cable is turning green on them. I did find the bass to be tight and well controlled which is more then can be said for a lot of the other earbuds I have tried so far but it was just too recessed compared to my Yinman 150 ohm. I wish I could take the sparkly highs of the DIY PK2 and add that to the 150 ohm.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 5, 2017)

93EXCivic said:


> Heigi full foams? Mine currently have Heigi donuts and they are an earlier version the cable is turning green on them. I did find the bass to be tight and well controlled which is more then can be said for a lot of the other earbuds I have tried so far but it was just too recessed compared to my Yinman 150 ohm. I wish I could take the sparkly highs of the DIY PK2 and add that to the 150 ohm.



Heigi Donuts,


The bass is about right for me, it's impactful and tight. The highs are just epic and sparkly, everything comes to life and is pure energy.

I actually turned the drivers/grill 45 degrees forward on each side whilst I was repairing the buds and I liked the effect. It puts the 'bottom' to the back of my ear and the 'side/top' to the front.  Less congested bass/mids, maybe that's why i think the bass is perfect on mine and not recessed at all?

Monk foams bring out an extra layer of clarity and slightly airy sound though, which I enjoy.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 9, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> I have NiceHCK DIY PK2 cable version 3 (most expensive). Regardless of the cable ,although some say version one sounds darker (probably just driver variances) I think these buds sound awesome. Can't say about the new PK2S with 'Panda' inscribed on them. They are slightly more expensive that's all I know.
> 
> As NokNok23 says his version 2 silver cable and my version 3 brown/gold cable should sound the same. Only durability differences possibly.


In Earbuds Anonymous Ranking Panda PK2S is the 11th position now.
I think I will buy that Panda now...

Edit:
Now I have 3 PKs. They all wear VE thin foam and donuts foam.
+taobao's Cresyn Diy Docomo PK1/2
+HCK's green cable Diy MX500 PK2
+Yuin's PK3


----------



## waynes world

jogawag said:


> In Earbuds Anonymous Ranking PK2S is the 11th position now.
> I think I will buy that Panda now...
> 
> Edit:
> ...



For now I am going to assume that the newer NiceHCK PK2 are the ones to consider. But it would be great if someone has comparisons of them to the most fabulous NiceHCK Graphenes


----------



## thelonius97

jogawag said:


> In Earbuds Anonymous Ranking PK2S is the 11th position now.


I'm not on Facebook, so could you provide a screenshot or copy&paste the top 10? Thanks.


----------



## noknok23

waynes world said:


> For now I am going to assume that the newer NiceHCK PK2 are the ones to consider. But it would be great if someone has comparisons of them to the most fabulous NiceHCK Graphenes


Graphene are bright airy expanded sounsdstage V shaped, bass more extended- more bass slam. exciting sound sig, excellent pair with warm source,
Nicehck PK2 polar opposite: warm narrow soundstage more 2D more body, more focus on vocals, no sub bass but slight mid bass bump, mellow sound sig. tonality is very nice- obviously sounds better with bright source. have 

Graphene overall scales better especially with high end source, sound amazing. but maybe a bit harsh with mid to lo fi source
PK2 amazing with lofi to mid fi source (roughly any dap under 200usd?) scales a bit but not as much with higher stuff.

of course YMMV


----------



## jogawag (Oct 5, 2017)

thelonius97 said:


> I'm not on Facebook, so could you provide a screenshot or copy&paste the top 10? Thanks.



Top15 (top is 1+108)


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 5, 2017)

waynes world said:


> For now I am going to assume that the newer NiceHCK PK2 are the ones to consider. But it would be great if someone has comparisons of them to the most fabulous NiceHCK Graphenes



I just had to order the PK2 because of all this talk...plus a few weeks ago someone told me they might fit me more easily than the ones in the Monk housing.  Mine are from your link.  I am getting the one with the white cable.  I liked the look of it,  It is a good thing that it will not arrive overnight as I am currently overwhelmed.  Five earbuds total were delivered to me over Monday and Tuesday!  Four of them I was waiting over a month for.  Where would you begin....

Boarseman MX98 - red ............................    Auglamour RX1

Qian 69 - white ..........................    Moondrop Nameless   ..................     PMV B01 Aoede


----------



## jogawag (Jun 9, 2018)

waynes world said:


> For now I am going to assume that the newer NiceHCK PK2 are the ones to consider. But it would be great if someone has comparisons of them to the most fabulous NiceHCK Graphenes


I think I will buy that both of Panda PK2S and NiceHCK PK2 now...

The Left is LiebesLeid with half transparent silicon earpads. This earpads is soft and thin, so that it fits with LiebesLeid. https://m.aliexpress.com/item//32795511476.html
+taobao's Cresyn Diy Docomo PK1/2
+HCK's green cable Diy MX500 PK2
+Yuin's PK3


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> I just had to order the PK2 because of all this talk...plus a few weeks ago someone told me they might fit me more easily than the ones in the Monk housing.  Mine are from your link.  I am getting the one with the white cable.  I liked the look of it,  It is a good thing that it will not arrive overnight as I am currently overwhelmed.  Five earbuds total were delivered to me over Monday and Tuesday!  Four of them I was waiting over a month for.  Where would you begin....
> 
> Boarseman MX98 - red ............................    Auglamour RX1
> 
> Qian 69 - white ..........................    Moondrop Nameless   ..................     PMV B01 Aoede



Wow - nice haul! Very interested in your impressions. According to ClieOS, the Nameless is similar to the Graphenes (but smoother), so they should be good!


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 5, 2017)

waynes world said:


> Wow - nice haul! Very interested in your impressions. According to ClieOS, the Nameless is similar to the Graphenes (but smoother), so they should be good!



I only have two ears so this will take some time. Monday I listened with the PMV ...the others had not yet arrived. Very enjoyable. Next thing I knew, I had listened almost until morning. Tuesday the other 4 came...unboxings all day...lol. Tueday evening I listened with the Boarseman (I had waited the longest for them) and somehow felt like I was listening with headphones. I just wish that Monk type housings were not so big.  Sometimes they fall out.  Last night I used the Moondrop (great fit) and was so relaxed I fell asleep (not a bad thing... it was 2am).  I have yet to put foams on the Quian or the Auglamour... not sure which I will listen with tonight... I have too many choices and not enough time.  I enjoy various sound signatures so I am probably not the best person to do impressions.  I pretty much love everything I have.  What I cannot do is go quickly from one to another for a-b type comparing.  That is just exhausting to me and ruins the music.


----------



## jogawag

mbwilson111 said:


> I only have two ears so this will take some time. Monday I listened with the PMV ...the others had not yet arrived. Tuesday the other 4 came...unboxings all day...lol. TuedayI  evening listened with the Boarseman (I had waited the longest for them) and somehow felt like I was listening with headphones. I just wish that Monk type housings were not so big.  Sometimes they fall out.  Last night I used the Moondrop (great fit) and was so relaxed I fell asleep (not a bad thing... it was 2am).  I have yet to put foams on the Quian or the Auglamour... not sure which I will listen with tonight... I have too many choices and not enough time.  I enjoy various sound signatures so I am probably not the best person to do impressions.  I pretty much love everything I have.  What I cannot do is go quickly from one to another for a-b type comparing.  That is just exhausting to me and ruins the music.



You can use multi-burning-in tool like this(about $3).


----------



## mbwilson111

jogawag said:


> You can use multi-burning-in tool like this(about $3).



Wow.  I wonder how my amp would handle that.


----------



## jogawag

mbwilson111 said:


> Wow.  I wonder how my amp would handle that.



My DAP is Onkyo DP-X1. And This can burn in 5 earbuds at the same time using this tool.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 5, 2017)

jogawag said:


> My DAP is Onkyo DP-X1. And This can burn in 5 earbuds at the same time using this tool.



Where did you find that?  Do you have a link?  I would try it.


----------



## jogawag

mbwilson111 said:


> Where did you find that?  Do you have a link?  I would try it.



I bought this tool in amazon, so I think that you can find easily this by search word "earphone splitter".


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 5, 2017)

jogawag said:


> I bought this tool in amazon, so I think that you can find easily this by search word "earphone splitter".



Thank you.  I was searching for "multi-burning-in tool"  

edited to add:

I am expecting this to arrive on Saturday... my very own multi burning-in tool. £3.  All the other colors were only available as add-on items but I am happy with purple.   There were also other listings that looked like the exact same thing that cost more than £5.

I did not even know that these things existed.  I had only seen 2 way splitters and did not even think about using them to burn things in.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 5, 2017)

noknok23 said:


> Graphene are bright airy expanded sounsdstage V shaped, bass more extended- more bass slam. exciting sound sig, excellent pair with warm source,
> Nicehck PK2 polar opposite: warm narrow soundstage more 2D more body, more focus on vocals, no sub bass but slight mid bass bump, mellow sound sig. tonality is very nice- obviously sounds better with bright source. have
> 
> Graphene overall scales better especially with high end source, sound amazing. but maybe a bit harsh with mid to lo fi source
> ...



Mellow sound sig? I think your PK2 is surely different version something. Mine is pure energy with extension on both ends, sparkly high's and a warmth that is non fatiguing. Although I agree on soundstage it's what i'd consider resonably deep but not too wide thus getting congested on busy tracks.

Don't have the graphene's unfortunately to compare to my pk2's, debating on spending more money on earbuds after my latest spree.

Edit; ahh your last point I missed about the source, maybe this is where out different opinions lie, I'm using an iphone 6s and I agree these buds seem to excell on mobile sources as they are very efficient and don't require much power to create an energetic sound. Maybe these buds are perfect for mobile source but not better on a larger source!


----------



## doggiemom (Oct 5, 2017)

ballog said:


> Apparently these are Vidos at $1.99 :
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Spo...32830431361.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.JAZX4Y
> So I think i've answered your question (i've already ordered 2).
> 
> P.S. Check the listing photos - there's a Vido label on one of the white earbud.


I received these today.  Alas, they appear to be "Sennheiser MX500"


----------



## theoutsider

mbwilson111 said:


> I only have two ears so this will take some time. Monday I listened with the PMV ...the others had not yet arrived. Very enjoyable. Next thing I knew, I had listened almost until morning. Tuesday the other 4 came...unboxings all day...lol. Tueday evening I listened with the Boarseman (I had waited the longest for them) and somehow felt like I was listening with headphones. I just wish that Monk type housings were not so big.  Sometimes they fall out.  Last night I used the Moondrop (great fit) and was so relaxed I fell asleep (not a bad thing... it was 2am).  I have yet to put foams on the Quian or the Auglamour... not sure which I will listen with tonight... I have too many choices and not enough time.  I enjoy various sound signatures so I am probably not the best person to do impressions.  I pretty much love everything I have.  What I cannot do is go quickly from one to another for a-b type comparing.  That is just exhausting to me and ruins the music.


Nameless is petite, fit is great, sound is laid back. I think PK earbuds are just as comfortable, or a tad more comfortable to use. Once you are done auditioning the buds, let me know how's pmv compared to nameless and rx-1.


----------



## theoutsider

doggiemom said:


> I received these today.  Alas, they appear to be "Sennheiser MX500"


din know Sennheiser started selling on aliX  HAHAHAHA


----------



## theoutsider

jogawag said:


> You can use multi-burning-in tool like this(about $3).


Hexapus


----------



## ballog

doggiemom said:


> I received these today.  Alas, they appear to be "Sennheiser MX500"


@doggiemom Weird cause I have already received my two pairs since a few weeks and they were both Vidos. I had also been confirmed been some members of Earbud Anonymous on FB that they have received Vido. Shortly after I had ordered from this I noticed that the store's order for this earbud had increased exponentially. May be the seller ran out of stock and decided to ship out the Sennheiser MX500 instead. How is the sound quality anyway?


----------



## theoutsider

ballog said:


> @doggiemom Weird cause I have already received my two pairs since a few weeks and they were both Vidos. I had also been confirmed been some members of Earbud Anonymous on FB that they have received Vido. Shortly after I had ordered from this I noticed that the store's order for this earbud had increased exponentially. May be the seller ran out of stock and decided to ship out the Sennheiser MX500 instead. How is the sound quality anyway?


I received Vido. Then I reordered another pair, not sure what I am getting this time..


----------



## theredhood

Hey guys I'm looking for a cheap fun bassy Earbud with good vocals. I think the EMX500 might fit but I also heard good reviews about the qian39. Any suggestions?


----------



## CharlesRievone

theredhood said:


> Hey guys I'm looking for a cheap fun bassy Earbud with good vocals. I think the EMX500 might fit but I also heard good reviews about the qian39. Any suggestions?


EMX500 would be wider in stage while the Qian39 has a forward mid section.
Cant go wrong in getting both to be honest, as they have different signatures.


----------



## Danneq

doggiemom said:


> I received these today.  Alas, they appear to be "Sennheiser MX500"




I thought MX500 had been discontinued for something like 10 years? It might be a DIY counterfeit version. But it should not be legal to sell that. I don't remember how my old MX400 and MX500 sounded like but they were decent but not overly impressive. I feel more impressed by Vido  than I remember being by those old Sennheisers...


----------



## jogawag (Oct 6, 2017)

Hi, Does anyone teach me the difference of sound of EPK1, EPK2 and PK2S.


----------



## doggiemom

Danneq said:


> I thought MX500 had been discontinued for something like 10 years? It might be a DIY counterfeit version. But it should not be legal to sell that. I don't remember how my old MX400 and MX500 sounded like but they were decent but not overly impressive. I feel more impressed by Vido  than I remember being by those old Sennheisers...


Oh, it's def a fake because it was only $2!  Lol!


----------



## doggiemom

cursing said:


> I received Vido. Then I reordered another pair, not sure what I am getting this time..


Probably "Sennheiser," LOL!  They have the little volume adjustment on the cable too. I didn't try them.  I just looked at them and laughed. Oh well, only $8 wasted.  (I bought 4 in case they were vidos).


----------



## CharlesRievone

jogawag said:


> Hi, Does anyone teach me the difference of sound of EPK1, EPK2 and PK2S.


Bass: PK2S=EPK2>EPK1
Mids: PK2S=EPK2=EPK1
Treble: EPK1>PK2S=EPK2

So at least on my ears, EPK2 and PK2S have a very similar signature.
EPK2 would be "louder" since it's easier to drive than the PK2S (due to resistance/sensitivity differences),
but on the same volume level, they produce similar sounds, more or less.

Both EPK2 and PK2S also share same similarities with the Graphene MX760.
So if I had to choose 1 out of the three (EPK2,PK2S, G-MX760), I would choose the PK2S, because of the better fit/comfort (yuin shells) and better build quality (thick cables compared to the flimsy twisted cables on both EPK2 and G-MX760).

Back on the EPK1, I'd say its good for trebleheads.
Weak bass, decent mids. It's cables look very nice, but the twisted part between the splitter and the shells gets loose over time.


----------



## theoutsider (Oct 6, 2017)

doggiemom said:


> Probably "Sennheiser," LOL!  They have the little volume adjustment on the cable too. I didn't try them.  I just looked at them and laughed. Oh well, only $8 wasted.  (I bought 4 in case they were vidos).


Hahahaa, so you bought 4 veirdos in total? They might be surpluses from Sennheiser OEM. You should take a listen, they might actually sound good.

I got a Vido and I ordered another and had it shipped directly to my brother.


----------



## jogawag

CharlesRievone said:


> Bass: PK2S=EPK2>EPK1
> Mids: PK2S=EPK2=EPK1
> Treble: EPK1>PK2S=EPK2
> 
> ...



Thank you for explaining to me in great detail.
Actually I was having a fight with the shop and I could not ask the shop directly.
So then, I will ask HCK shop whether Panda PK2s and the PK2S are the same, if different, I will buy with AK Audio shop.
Thank you again!


----------



## rahmish (Oct 6, 2017)

doggiemom said:


> Probably "Sennheiser," LOL!  They have the little volume adjustment on the cable too. I didn't try them.  I just looked at them and laughed. Oh well, only $8 wasted.  (I bought 4 in case they were vidos).


They looks like DIY MX50, which, by the way, are really good


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 6, 2017)

Anyone with the Rose Masya how long burn in to reach optimal levels? I'm very much liking the clarity and it's all round quality of sound, just hoping it gets a tad 'fuller'.

I mean so far it went from thin sound to medium full after 6 hours burn in, I'm relatively content but hope it will fill out further.

Other than that it's a smooth operator with TOTL clarity and soundstage/separation but I'm not blown away by a sparkly treble or exceptional bass. Maybe more burn in will bring out something special? Or is this what you get with the Masya?

I'm being hyper crital because my emx500 has merits in the bass to beat it, and the pk2 has merits in the treble to beat it. Which is a little annoying xD

Oh btw EMX500 is just a beast for the price, once I used it with EQ tweaks to bring out the highs and put monk thin foams on it to control the bass. WOW! It's challenging my masya head to head overall. Masya it still a more high end sound presentation. I can feel the smoothness of masya just wish it could be more full sound, or let loose on treble sparkle or maybe if the bass stayed around a little longer (it's extremely quick/tight) to feed into the mids.

Sorry for the rant haha!


----------



## Saoshyant

Just remember Masya's generally a vocals-oriented earbud that won't have the treble the Mojito has, and I'd assume it's bass tuning was done in order to keep the mids optimal.  It's still quite respectable with bass after EQ.  For truly special bass, you need to go with something like Svara-L 115ohm, Zen 1, or similarly tuned earbuds.  But that of course comes with a compromise.


----------



## rkw

doggiemom said:


> Probably "Sennheiser," LOL!  They have the little volume adjustment on the cable too. I didn't try them.  I just looked at them and laughed. Oh well, only $8 wasted.  (I bought 4 in case they were vidos).


Since Vido uses the same MX500 shell, maybe they ran out of shells with "Vido" label and used whatever shells they had available. So conceivably they might be Vidos, just with a different label.


----------



## seanc6441

Saoshyant said:


> Just remember Masya's generally a vocals-oriented earbud that won't have the treble the Mojito has, and I'd assume it's bass tuning was done in order to keep the mids optimal.  It's still quite respectable with bass after EQ.  For truly special bass, you need to go with something like Svara-L 115ohm, Zen 1, or similarly tuned earbuds.  But that of course comes with a compromise.



Yeah I can respect that, if you EQ for a slight U shape it helps balance out the sound. I just wish it was slightly 'fuller'. But I suspect with more burn in the sound will improve in sone way as it has done so far. I still love what I'm hearing, just can't believe the €12 EMX500 can be used alongside it and not sound dull or low quality! The pk2 was sounding a little dull but I suspect that's because I need to find a new foam option somewhere between monk thin (shifts the tone too high) and heigi donut/full (not enough clarity). I think ill use 2 monk thin foams when I get the ex pack.


----------



## HungryPanda (Oct 6, 2017)

As much as I like all my earbuds I have recently been enjoying the heck out of my Seahf AWK-F32T's


----------



## doggiemom

cursing said:


> Hahahaa, so you bought 4 veirdos in total? They might be surpluses from Sennheiser OEM. You should take a listen, they might actually sound good.
> 
> I got a Vido and I ordered another and had it shipped directly to my brother.


Yes, I have 4 "Veirdos."    I figured it was worth the risk in case they did turn out to be Vidos.  I tried them, and they are okay for $2.    The volume slider control works.  My husband is watching TV very loudly right now, so over the weekend I will try to A/B them with the $4 Vidos.


----------



## theoutsider

doggiemom said:


> Yes, I have 4 "Veirdos."    I figured it was worth the risk in case they did turn out to be Vidos.  I tried them, and they are okay for $2.    The volume slider control works.  My husband is watching TV very loudly right now, so over the weekend I will try to A/B them with the $4 Vidos.


Are you sad?


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> As much as I like all my earbuds I have recently been enjoying the heck out of my Seahf AWK-F32T's



I know nothing about them. But you have got me intrigued. Wow, only $15 - now I'm really intrigued lol!


----------



## snip3r77

waynes world said:


> I know nothing about them. But you have got me intrigued. Wow, only $15 - now I'm really intrigued lol!


TOP up abit for the graphene ?


----------



## HungryPanda

snip3r77 said:


> TOP up abit for the graphene ?



We already both have the graphene


----------



## snip3r77

HungryPanda said:


> We already both have the graphene


It’s better than graphene?


----------



## jant71

HungryPanda said:


> As much as I like all my earbuds I have recently been enjoying the heck out of my Seahf AWK-F32T's



What is the sig? Bass amount vs. any of the Knowns(Monk, Vido, Qian, Hi-Z 32, EMX500)?


----------



## HungryPanda

The Seaf AWK-F32T is closer to the EMX500 than the graphene but I find it's SS more pleasant than the EMX500


----------



## thelonius97

I don't know if this was the best idea with the number of earbuds around, but I cooked up *this* earbud rating survey in around half an hour. If you have nothing better to do, please fill it out and let me know which of the popular ones are missing.


----------



## Narayan23

cursing said:


> Are you sad?



Doggiemom seems pretty happy to me but thanks for your concern for your fellow thread members.


----------



## jogawag

thelonius97 said:


> I don't know if this was the best idea with the number of earbuds around, but I cooked up *this* earbud rating survey in around half an hour. If you have nothing better to do, please fill it out and let me know which of the popular ones are missing.


Could you please let us see the results of Earbud rating survey?


----------



## kurtextrem

Something made me order the new Qian. I don't know how ClieOS is even doing short reviews for cheaper buds, I just can't listen to music/voices using those after being used to Shozy Stardust. Voices sound so muffled and distant, it's unreal. I guess this is the aftermath of TOTL buds, you can never "downgrade" again.


----------



## thelonius97

jogawag said:


> Could you please let us see the results of Earbud rating survey?


There are only 3 voters so far, but *here*.


----------



## doggiemom

cursing said:


> Are you sad?


Oh my goodness no, I thought it was funny.  There are many things to be sad about these days, so this wasn't even a blip on my sadness radar.  They are not bad....... for $2.  

I did a very quick A/B with the Vidos and the Vierdos are definitely not Vidos.  The volume slider attenuates the volume quite a bit - I had to turn down my amp to level match the Vidos.  The Vidos have a bigger soundstage and more prominent bass than the Vierdos.  The Vierdos are more V-Shaped and definitely sharper on the trebles.  However, the Vierdos are listenable, and at a price point of $2, that is about all you can ask for.

The accessories for the Vierdos are a bit lacking: they come in a little Ziploc bag indicating that they are RoHs compliant and the bag is recyclable.  They come with 1 pair of foams.  One of the foams ripped as I tried to put it on, so the foams aren't the best.  Good thing I have backups!

It would be funny if the Vierdos turn into the next budget find:  "At $2, they punch way above their price."


----------



## gazzington

Any of you people have a recommend for an ear bud or iem for black metal?


----------



## bonson

kurtextrem said:


> Something made me order the new Qian. I don't know how ClieOS is even doing short reviews for cheaper buds, I just can't listen to music/voices using those after being used to Shozy Stardust. Voices sound so muffled and distant, it's unreal. I guess this is the aftermath of TOTL buds, you can never "downgrade" again.


I don't have Qian but vido is very listenable for a different signature that attenuate fatigue after a music session with shozy bk which are very exceptional IMO.


----------



## waynes world (Oct 7, 2017)

kurtextrem said:


> Something made me order the new Qian. I don't know how ClieOS is even doing short reviews for cheaper buds, I just can't listen to music/voices using those after being used to Shozy Stardust. Voices sound so muffled and distant, it's unreal. I guess this is the aftermath of TOTL buds, you can never "downgrade" again.



I would have thought so as well. But I have the Zen1 & 2, and somehow I manage to also quite enjoy the budget buds. Maybe I have the opposite of golden ears. Or maybe my ears can conform to different signatures. Or maybe budget buds are actually quite good these days (I'm looking at you emx500's and graphenes) 

Btw, have you tried the graphenes?


----------



## kurtextrem

waynes world said:


> I would have thought so as well. But I have the Zen1 & 2, and somehow I manage to also quite enjoy the budget buds. Maybe I have the opposite of golden ears. Or maybe my ears can conform to different signatures. Or maybe budget buds are actually quite good these days (I'm looking at you emx500's and graphenes)
> 
> Btw, have you tried the graphenes?


I have not, however I'm happy with the Stardust and my recommendations are Cygnus and Stardust (so possibly graphenes too) for gaming


----------



## cqtek

jogawag said:


> Thank you for explaining to me in great detail.
> Actually I was having a fight with the shop and I could not ask the shop directly.
> So then, I will ask HCK shop whether Panda PK2s and the PK2S are the same, if different, I will buy with AK Audio shop.
> Thank you again!



Hello, 
I'm interested in this PK earbuds also, now you know if Panda PK2s from NiceHCK are the same than PK2S?
Any information about this panda earbuds?


----------



## HungryPanda (Oct 7, 2017)

I don't know as these are the only NiceHCK PK2's I have heard


----------



## jogawag (Oct 7, 2017)

cqtek said:


> Hello,
> I'm interested in this PK earbuds also, now you know if Panda PK2s from NiceHCK are the same than PK2S?
> Any information about this panda earbuds?


As Mr. Charles Rievone teached me, the AK Audio said "This PK2S is the best among Diy PK2.".
And HCK said that "PK2S and Panda PK2s are the same product.".
So I bought this from HCK who sold this cheapest.


----------



## noknok23

gazzington said:


> Any of you people have a recommend for an ear bud or iem for black metal?


anything from Seahf would do it I think!


----------



## golov17

waynes world said:


> I would have thought so as well. But I have the Zen1 & 2, and somehow I manage to also quite enjoy the budget buds. Maybe I have the opposite of golden ears. Or maybe my ears can conform to different signatures. Or maybe budget buds are actually quite good these days (I'm looking at you emx500's and graphenes)
> 
> Btw, have you tried the graphenes?


Same here, bro ))


----------



## HungryPanda

noknok23 said:


> anything from Seahf would do it I think!



I agree The Seaf AWK-F32 or I prefer the Seaf AWK-F64 ohm as it has a wider soundstage to my ears


----------



## cqtek

jogawag said:


> As Mr. Charles Rievone teached me, the AK Audio said "This PK2S is the best among Diy PK2.".
> And HCK said that "PK2S and Panda PK2s are the same product.".
> So I bought this from HCK who sold this cheapest.



Me too.


----------



## gazzington

Thanks, I’ll get a seahf from aliexpress. I amazed at how good a lot of these cheap earbuds are.


----------



## krunchcrispy

This might be an odd question, but does anyone know of any other bud that uses the same shell as qian 25? I am finding it bigger than qian 39 yet smaller than Monk, which fits my particular ear just right. Thanks in advance...


----------



## bonson

Has anyone already heard the joyroom  E204? 
https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10037953/8549900-joyroom-e204-3-5mm-jack-wired-control-in-ear
Did  not find any review on it . They look nice for 6$ and never know these days with cheap earbuds sounding so good.


----------



## theoutsider (Oct 8, 2017)

bonson said:


> Has anyone already heard the joyroom  E204?
> https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10037953/8549900-joyroom-e204-3-5mm-jack-wired-control-in-ear
> Did  not find any review on it . They look nice for 6$ and never know these days with cheap earbuds sounding so good.


Remax 305M identical to Joyroom E204. Remax 305M is probably a rebrand, or the other way around.
https://www.banggood.com/REMAX-305M...-for-iPhone-Samsung-Xiaomi-HTC-p-1067384.html
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/remax-rm-305m-aluminum-earbud.22070/reviews

p.s. Remax 305M enclosures do not have that extra 3 portholes.


----------



## bonson

cursing said:


> Remax 305M identical to Joyroom E204. Remax 305M is probably a rebrand, or the other way around.
> https://www.banggood.com/REMAX-305M...-for-iPhone-Samsung-Xiaomi-HTC-p-1067384.html
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/remax-rm-305m-aluminum-earbud.22070/reviews
> 
> p.s. Remax 305M enclosures do not have that extra 3 portholes.


Thanks for pointing the review of Remax 305M. If it is a rebrand it s half the price of the Remax. Still a good deal. Interesting forrmations in the review for me as I own the ting that it s compared to. Not very impressed by the ting because the shell is to small for my ears and I can't get a good fit. And it s said the Remax is even  smaller than tings.


----------



## bonson

You intrigued me about The extra 3 portholes.May be more bass.  Out of curiosity I ordered the silver model.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 8, 2017)

bonson said:


> Thanks for pointing the review of Remax 305M. If it is a rebrand it s half the price of the Remax. Still a good deal. Interesting forrmations in the review for me as I own the ting that it s compared to. Not very impressed by the ting because the shell is to small for my ears and I can't get a good fit. And it s said the Remax is even  smaller than tings.



For such a case, there is Rubber Ring.
https://m.aliexpress.com/item//32324321353.html
But too expensive!


----------



## theoutsider (Oct 8, 2017)

bonson said:


> Thanks for pointing the review of Remax 305M. If it is a rebrand it s half the price of the Remax. Still a good deal. Interesting forrmations in the review for me as I own the ting that it s compared to. Not very impressed by the ting because the shell is to small for my ears and I can't get a good fit. And it s said the Remax is even  smaller than tings.


I have both Tomahawk and TP16. I didn't do any analytical comparison between the two, but if my memory serves me right they sounded very similar. I believe Ting is probably a Tomahawk with a metal front.

Even at 10usd, the build of 305m is worth the money. Joyroom E204 probably has wider soundstage. Holes on earphones are not necessarily bass ports, sometimes they are intended for the mids.


----------



## theoutsider (Oct 8, 2017)

bonson said:


> You intrigued me about The extra 3 portholes.May be more bass.  Out of curiosity I ordered the silver model.


I contemplated buying 305m but decided to give it a pass. It might end up as just another pair of underused earbuds...

E204 uses 10mm dynamic drivers. I believe those are a bit small for earbuds.


----------



## bonson

I am not an audiophile but let you know how they scene next to graphene or vido...
May be I should have give  it a pass too and keep my money for next Shozy  buds. I received a Facebook notification about new model shortly arriving. Don't know if it is Iem or buds.


----------



## DBaldock9

A couple of question for those who have a varied collection of earbuds - 

Do you also have multiple DACs / Amps, or DAPs that you use with the earbuds?
Do your multiple DACs or DAPs have different model DAC chips in them?
Do you hear any obvious differences between the different DAC chip implementations?
Which _chip (/ amp)_ and earbud combination do you consider your _reference_?


----------



## thelonius97

*Here* are the results so far. Please let me know which of the popular/good ones are missing from the list.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 9, 2017)

thelonius97 said:


> *Here* are the results so far. Please let me know which of the popular/good ones are missing from the list.


Your work is very great for everyone. Thank you.
It will be a measure of the choice of next Earbuds to buy.


----------



## chinmie

I've just acquired Svara L, Nicehck Graphene, and Puresounds 100-500, all three of them are great earbuds, I'm really happy with them!

I'm curious about the graphene though.. is it really closely similar to the Shozy BK?


----------



## bonson

chinmie said:


> I've just acquired Svara L, Nicehck Graphene, and Puresounds 100-500, all three of them are great earbuds, I'm really happy with them!
> 
> I'm curious about the graphene though.. is it really closely similar to the Shozy BK?


I received the graphene on Saturday.. To my ears they don't sound similar instruments and voices are more clear and more articulated if it's the right word on Shozy. Maybe more soundstage on graphene. But I have to burn them more as I appreciate the graphene at their value.


----------



## thelonius97 (Oct 9, 2017)

jogawag said:


> It will be a measure of the choice of next Earbuds to buy.


Yeah, that's exactly why I made it.

Oh yeah, and do you think the ratings should be considering the price, or only based on sound quality, build, etc.?


----------



## jogawag

thelonius97 said:


> Yeah, that's exactly why I made it.
> 
> Oh yeah, and do you think the ratings should be considering the price, or only based on sound quality, build, etc.?



I think rating should be considering the sound quality, next build.


----------



## thelonius97

jogawag said:


> I think rating should be considering the sound quality, next build.


But if you don't consider the price as well, there's a problem. For example if there's a $10 earbud. A person who only listens to ~$10 earbuds might rate it high, but somebody who has better earbuds will rate the same earbud low.


----------



## acap13

bonson said:


> I received the graphene on Saturday.. To my ears they don't sound similar instruments and voices are more clear and more articulated if it's the right word on Shozy. Maybe more soundstage on graphene. But I have to burn them more as I appreciate the graphene at their value.



Its an interesting observation. Best I have heard graphene was when I put thin Monk+ foam on it. The nuance and huge dynamics are there.. Do you do the same case when comparing to the BK. I would really like to know! Thanks


----------



## 93EXCivic

The problem with making a group survey of earbuds is that everyone has different tastes and different amounts they are willing to spend. With a survey generally the least expensive good earbud is going to rise towards the top as more people have tried them but more expensive ones are not. 

I think the great thing about ClieOS list was that it was one person's opinion so he could subjectively compare many earbuds against one another rather then random people somewhat comparing earbuds they may have never heard versus ones they have. IMO reviews are much more useful then a pure rating.


----------



## jogawag

thelonius97 said:


> But if you don't consider the price as well, there's a problem. For example if there's a $10 earbud. A person who only listens to ~$10 earbuds might rate it high, but somebody who has better earbuds will rate the same earbud low.



Indeed, I did not think about such a case.
Because I can afford to some extent money.
If so,  when it is some cheap, it should better be of the same rating for close sound quality.


----------



## thelonius97 (Oct 9, 2017)

93EXCivic said:


> The problem with making a group survey of earbuds is that everyone has different tastes and different amounts they are willing to spend. With a survey generally the least expensive good earbud is going to rise towards the top as more people have tried them but more expensive ones are not.
> 
> I think the great thing about ClieOS list was that it was one person's opinion so he could subjectively compare many earbuds against one another rather then random people somewhat comparing earbuds they may have never heard versus ones they have. IMO reviews are much more useful then a pure rating.


Yeah, I know. In the top of the survey, I added a disclaimer saying that the ratings are kind of meaningless and not to be taken seriously. They're more so for deciding what to buy next (and what not to).


----------



## theoutsider

thelonius97 said:


> But if you don't consider the price as well, there's a problem. For example if there's a $10 earbud. A person who only listens to ~$10 earbuds might rate it high, but somebody who has better earbuds will rate the same earbud low.


The survey makes sense, if you let public vote for their favorite pair of earbuds, monk+ and vido will presumably end up on top, since many or most people here have those.

The number of 'votes' represents how popular or commonly used it is; 'rating' tells how intrinsically good it is. But then again most people do not own majority of the earbuds so they can not place the earbuds on the same scale as others.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 9, 2017)

cursing said:


> The survey makes sense, if you let public vote for their favorite pair of earbuds, monk+ and vido will presumably end up on top, since many or most people here have those.
> 
> The number of 'votes' represents how popular or commonly used it is; 'rating' tells how intrinsically good it is. But then again most people do not own majority of the earbuds so they can not place the earbuds on the same scale as others.


However, I think that one who reads this Earbuds Round-Up and wants to write in that ranking may have more than five Earbuds if estimated at least.
And those who are trying to write in the rankings may think that they know which Earbuds are better from the information of Earbuds Round-Up.
 (Of course, it is premised that the accuracy of Rating will be reduced to some extent.)


----------



## CharlesRievone

jogawag said:


> As Mr. Charles Rievone teached me, the AK Audio said "This PK2S is the best among Diy PK2.".


For the record, I never said that PK2S is the best DIY PK2. Just in case I get quoted on that statement hehe.
But it is my favorite PK/Yuin shelled budget earbuds at the moment.


----------



## jogawag

CharlesRievone said:


> For the record, I never said that PK2S is the best DIY PK2. Just in case I get quoted on that statement hehe.
> But it is my favorite PK/Yuin shelled budget earbuds at the moment.


I apologize for not quoting your remarks exactly.


----------



## Saoshyant

@thelonius97 The survey would have more validity if it would be separated into price categories.  0-15, 16-30, 31-50- 51-100, 101+ might help with comparisons.


----------



## CharlesRievone

jogawag said:


> I apologize for not quoting your remarks exactly.


No worries man 

Just also letting everyone know that we also have a running "ranking" of most recommended earbuds as of Oct 2017 over at Earbuds Anonymous fb group.
Budget buds are still also expected to be at the top due to popularity.


----------



## thelonius97

Saoshyant said:


> @thelonius97 The survey would have more validity if it would be separated into price categories.  0-15, 16-30, 31-50- 51-100, 101+ might help with comparisons.


But won't that only provide a visual separation? People will still rate whatever they own in the same way, I think.


----------



## Saoshyant

thelonius97 said:


> But won't that only provide a visual separation? People will still rate whatever they own in the same way, I think.



But it'll help add perspective for the ratings.  It might diminish the possibility of someone seeing a particularly high rated inexpensive earbud and thinking it might outperform a lesser rated albeit more expensive earbud.  It never hurts to provide more information so people can make a more informed decision.


----------



## jogawag

Everybody, let's vote for Earbuds Survey.
I think it would be fun if you know how much Earbuds you own is being evaluated from the whole!
https://goo.gl/forms/qnuPq59sxvTJj5kp1


----------



## Danneq

Rather than having the buds separated into price categories I would like to have 1-10 rather than 1-5. Now I have given Vido and Monk+ the same as Mojito (3). That sort of feels strange, and since I own earbuds priced from around $3 - ~$600 (Red Dragon) I would like a few more point to by. Overall I find Mojito to be better overall than Vido and Monk+, even if I prefer the sound signature of the former two. $100+ earbuds usually have better resolution and detail than budget earbuds. Now I'm in a position where I cannot give 5 to any other earbuds except for Red Dragon, no matter how much I want to, just because I find them to be in another league compared even to the TOTL earbuds.


----------



## Saoshyant

Yep, my though process for $100+ and not splitting up the top cost suggestion further is I could see Masya vs Mojito as a reasonable assessment, but yes, 1-10 would allow a greater degree of accuracy.  But really though, given how people all have different tastes, this kind of practice can really skew how accurately an earbud is scored.  I was a little surprised to see how poorly the TP16 scored, when at least in my mind I'd have scored it a 3.5 or so.


----------



## thelonius97

Danneq said:


> Rather than having the buds separated into price categories I would like to have 1-10 rather than 1-5. Now I have given Vido and Monk+ the same as Mojito (3). That sort of feels strange, and since I own earbuds priced from around $3 - ~$600 (Red Dragon) I would like a few more point to by. Overall I find Mojito to be better overall than Vido and Monk+, even if I prefer the sound signature of the former two. $100+ earbuds usually have better resolution and detail than budget earbuds. Now I'm in a position where I cannot give 5 to any other earbuds except for Red Dragon, no matter how much I want to, just because I find them to be in another league compared even to the TOTL earbuds.


Changing that would require all the previous entries to be erased. (Doubling the existing entries causes some problems since people are allowed to edit their response.)
Dividing the earbuds into tiers based on price would actually be easier.


----------



## jogawag

thelonius97 said:


> Changing that would require all the previous entries to be erased. (Doubling the existing entries causes some problems since people are allowed to edit their response.)
> Dividing the earbuds into tiers based on price would actually be easier.


Since it is necessary to stop System once it is made to evaluate by the score of 1-10, how about changing to the score of 0.5, 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3, 3.5, 4, 4.5, and 5 Is it?


----------



## thelonius97

jogawag said:


> Since it is necessary to stop System once it is made to evaluate by the score of 1-10, how about changing to the score of 0.5, 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3, 3.5, 4, 4.5, and 5 Is it?


Google Forms only allows whole numbers.


----------



## thelonius97

With 1-10, most people won't rate anything below 5 anyway. I think I'll divide them based on price tomorrow.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 9, 2017)

thelonius97 said:


> With 1-10, most people won't rate anything below 5 anyway. I think I'll divide them based on price tomorrow.


How about doubling the score voted so far and making it effective?
Edit:
I will withdraw this proposal.


----------



## doggiemom

DBaldock9 said:


> A couple of question for those who have a varied collection of earbuds -
> 
> Do you also have multiple DACs / Amps, or DAPs that you use with the earbuds?
> Do your multiple DACs or DAPs have different model DAC chips in them?
> ...


Yes.
Yes.
All my DACs and DAPs sound different, but it is tough to say if that is due to the characteristics of the chips themselves or the implementation.  I suspect the latter accounts for much of the differences.
I love the Mojo, but I do think that it adds something...... maybe mojo (!) that makes everything very musical and engaging.  For reference (meaning truest reproduction of the sound) I'd say the LH Labs Geekout V2 Infinity, with filters off.  The reference earbud thing is a tough one, because 95% of the buds I have seem to have a distinct sound profile, and by 'reference' I'd look for something neutral.  The Cypherus Audio Black would probably be it, though they don't get as much use as some of the others because of the cable.  If not for a little driver rattling problem I'm having in one ear, the K's 300 Samsara would be another candidate.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 10, 2017)

thelonius97 said:


> With 1-10, most people won't rate anything below 5 anyway. I think I'll divide them based on price tomorrow.


Note: In my country, earphone price classification works well as three, less than $20, $20 - less than $100, $100 or more.

Edit:
I Correct it.
Note: In my country, earphone price classification works well as three, less than $ 50, from $ 50 and less than $ 200, from $ 200.


----------



## chinmie

anybody using the Svara L with different cable other than the stock one? is changing the cable on the svara changes the sound a lot? i am wondering whether i can lower the bass and accentuate the highs a bit, any suggestions on what cable material to use?


----------



## Saoshyant

jogawag said:


> Note: In my country, earphone price classification works well as three, less than $20, $20 - less than $100, $100 or more.
> 
> Edit:
> I Correct it.
> Note: In my country, earphone price classification works well as three, less than $ 50, from $ 50 and less than $ 200, from $ 200.



The issue with that price range is you start running into TOTL before you hit $200.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 10, 2017)

Saoshyant said:


> The issue with that price range is you start running into TOTL before you hit $200.


But, I think the five of  "0-15,16-30,31-50, 51-100,100+" you suggested are too many. So I think  the three of "0-29.99, 30-99.99, 100+"  are  good.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 10, 2017)

Mr. *thelonius97,*
Many requests came out later, I feel very sorry. But I have the last request for "Earbuds Survey".
I think that it would be perfect if "Rating" is set as the first sort key and "Votes" as the second sort key.

Edit:
"Name" may be third sort key.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 10, 2017)

thelonius97 said:


> With 1-10, most people won't rate anything below 5 anyway. I think I'll divide them based on price tomorrow.


Bravo, your "*Earbud Rating Survey*" is perfect!!!
Everyone must try this!!!


----------



## Saoshyant

@jogawag Can't really agree with 30-100 either, as Cygnus, Edimun & Red Demun are in different leagues than something like the VSonic earbud.  More divisions allow for more accurate grouping.  Three groups feels insufficient for proper ranging to me at least.


----------



## thelonius97 (Oct 10, 2017)

Responding to some of the suggestions I got-
1. I couldn't find anything called "TY (Hi-Z) AWK-32P".
2. "rename DQSM Z W Panda PK2s -> NiceHCK PK2s". If possible, I think it's better not to include the seller's name as I think there are a couple of other sellers selling the exact same earbud but along with their brand name. Which reminds me- does anyone know if the NiceHCK DIY Graphene MX760 is different from the W..e..y one? Because the prices are different.
3. "erase rating". Once you click on a rating, the only way to remove it is by refreshing the page. But if you've already submitted, it's too late. I can't do anything about that.


----------



## thelonius97

Saoshyant said:


> @jogawag Can't really agree with 30-100 either, as Cygnus, Edimun & Red Demun are in different leagues than something like the VSonic earbud.  More divisions allow for more accurate grouping.  Three groups feels insufficient for proper ranging to me at least.


Yeah, I can add more divisions once there are more buds. Just checked out the guys who made the Edimun/Red Demun and they seem to have a lot of earbuds in the sub $100 range. Should I add all of them to the survey, or what?


----------



## 93EXCivic

The survey needs the Yinman range added badly.


----------



## thelonius97 (Oct 10, 2017)

93EXCivic said:


> The survey needs the Yinman range added badly.


Cool. Tell me which models to consider.

Edit: I'll add the 64, 150, 500, and 600ohm ones when I have time.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 10, 2017)

thelonius97 said:


> Yeah, I can add more divisions once there are more buds. Just checked out the guys who made the Edimun/Red Demun and they seem to have a lot of earbuds in the sub $100 range. Should I add all of them to the survey, or what?


To think about, the maximum is 4 groups. How many numbers are appropriate for you to separate the second or third group?


----------



## 93EXCivic

thelonius97 said:


> Cool. Tell me which models to consider.



Yinman 150 ohm at the very least as it seems popular. 

But I would say the 64 ohm, 300 ohm, 500 ohm and 600 ohm.


----------



## thelonius97

jogawag said:


> To think about, the maximum is 4 groups. How many numbers are appropriate for you to separate the second or third group?


No specific number, but right now there are only 2 or 3 under $50.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 10, 2017)

thelonius97 said:


> Responding to some of the suggestions I got-
> 1. I couldn't find anything called "TY (Hi-Z) AWK-32P".
> 2. "rename DQSM Z W Panda PK2s -> NiceHCK PK2s". If possible, I think it's better not to include the seller's name as I think there are a couple of other sellers selling the exact same earbud but along with their brand name. Which reminds me- does anyone know if the NiceHCK DIY Graphene MX760 is different from the XXX one? Because the prices are different.
> 3. "erase rating". Once you click on a rating, the only way to remove it is by refreshing the page. But if you've already submitted, it's too late. I can't do anything about that.



To 1. : "TY (Hi-Z) AWK-32P" = ?
To 2. : That store name is banned in head-fi.
To 3. : I is OK because of technical difficulty.


----------



## luckyeights

so the graphene mx760.  Are we saying there are two different versions one with a metal grill other plastic?  The one i received is metal.   Does this affect the sound and if so in what way?


----------



## jogawag

thelonius97 said:


> No specific number, but right now there are only 2 or 3 under $50.


So I think the 4 of "0-19.99, 20-49.99, 50-99.99, 100+" are good.


----------



## thelonius97

jogawag said:


> So I think the 4 of "0-19.99, 20-49.99, 50-99.99, 100+" are good.


Yeah, I think that sounds good.


----------



## vladstef

luckyeights said:


> so the graphene mx760.  Are we saying there are two different versions one with a metal grill other plastic?  The one i received is metal.   Does this affect the sound and if so in what way?



There is a lot of confusion going on about this graphene earbud due to many sellers having them at different prices. Metal grill usually only slightly changes treble peaks/dips. It isn't something to be worried about. There is no way to be 100% sure though, I judged based on previous measurements by @slappypete who took a few different front covers and used one driver to test. Differences exist but it isn't that big of a deal and it only changes sound in the higher frequencies where differences are very hard to hear.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 10, 2017)

thelonius97 said:


> Responding to some of the suggestions I got-
> 1. I couldn't find anything called "TY (Hi-Z) AWK-32P".


I am sorry, I have mistaken the earbuds name.
To 1. : "TY (Hi-Z) AWK-32P" -> seahf AWK-F32P(us 7.5$).


----------



## snip3r77

Guess what has arrived?



Spoiler


----------



## HungryPanda (Oct 10, 2017)

Earbud?


----------



## jogawag

snip3r77 said:


> Guess what has arrived?


You make me very excited!


----------



## jogawag

snip3r77 said:


> Guess what has arrived?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler



That is the HCK mx760 graphen transparent version?


----------



## waynes world

luckyeights said:


> so the graphene mx760.  Are we saying there are two different versions one with a metal grill other plastic?  The one i received is metal.   Does this affect the sound and if so in what way?



All I can say is that I also have the metal grill version from here (for the last 3 weeks), and I have been consistently impressed with them.


----------



## snip3r77

jogawag said:


> That is the HCK mx760 graphen transparent version?


Yes bro


----------



## cqtek (Oct 10, 2017)

Hello.

A friend left me two old earbuds:

Sunrise A.S. Charm (PK shell)
Sunrise Dragon (PK shell also)

I recently bought this model (NiceHCK DIY PK1 MX500. PK shell also):

https://es.aliexpress.com/store/pro...lugs-Headset-Earbud/1825606_32823569005.html?

After 80 hours of burning I start to try to compare. Normally I play several songs that I know very well, but sometimes I play pure tones in order to know how deep the earbuds can play bass. I use this web to play from 20Hz to 100Hz:

http://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/

First I try with A.S. Charm and one side distorts a lot of, well is an old earbud, maybe they are broken, I have thought.
Then the same operation with Dragon and the same result but with less distortion. Uhhmm, both are old...
At last the same operation with the new one DIY PK1 and... same result! One side distorts a little. It's broken? It's a coincidence?
Is there a problem similar to all PK shells?
This is my question.

I tried the same operation with several earbuds I have with MX500 shells without this problem, even with the Qian39 that they has little shells.

Also, I played this tones with my Fiio Q1 and the PC sound card with the same results.

Edited:

I upload some files saved with the mobile (40Hz), each canal from each earbud (DIY PK1, Dragon)

Seems that DIY PK1 has a lot of difference between one channel to other.
With Dragon it seems that the vibration occurs when hitting the shell...


----------



## jogawag (Jun 9, 2018)

cqtek said:


> Hello.
> 
> A friend left me two old earbuds:
> 
> ...



I tried listening up to 20-100 Hz with the green PK type of the same web page.
Next, I listened to the following earphones as well, but even though there was some difference in the volume, I could not feel the difference and distortion of the left and right sounds.
[Shozy BK / Shozy Cygnus / Yuin PK3 / Taobao's Cresyn Diy docomo PK type / MX500 type of the same Web page / k3003 / westone w30]
Perhaps, I think that it is a trouble of PK type Earbuds you purchased.


----------



## 93EXCivic

Campfred2s just got in... 

I know Cypherus says to burn them in but damn they sound pretty good straight out of the box.


----------



## seanc6441

For the ranking list;

Price categories ($) 0-10, 11-30, 31-50, 51-80, 81-110, 111-150, 151-200, 201+

That's 8 categories overall.

I know it's a lot but you need that much to make a useful category system to compare buds in a close price range.


----------



## seanc6441

By the way NiceHCK graphene is out of stock when I went to buy it today. I asked him if they will be back in stock soon. Waiting for a replay.

Should I wait for his version is is their another identical version from a different seller?


----------



## jogawag

seanc6441 said:


> For the ranking list;
> 
> Price categories ($) 0-10, 11-30, 31-50, 51-80, 81-110, 111-150, 151-200, 201+
> 
> ...



If 8 categories is needed, I think the below is reasonable.
($) 0-9.99, 10-29.99, 30-49.99, 50-69.99, 70-99.99, 100-149.99, 150-199.99, 200+


----------



## 93EXCivic

Personally I think $0-$10, $10-$30, $30-$100, $100-$200, $200+ would be a good break down


----------



## jogawag

93EXCivic said:


> Personally I think $0-$10, $10-$30, $30-$100, $100-$200, $200+ would be a good break down


I vote this.


----------



## seanc6441

93EXCivic said:


> Personally I think $0-$10, $10-$30, $30-$100, $100-$200, $200+ would be a good break down


30-100 compares Rose masya tier buds to sub $50 buds. A little unfair I feel.



jogawag said:


> If 8 categories is needed, I think the below is reasonable.
> ($) 0-9.99, 10-29.99, 30-49.99, 50-69.99, 70-99.99, 100-149.99, 150-199.99, 200+



A more elegant version I agree.


----------



## Saoshyant

We might be getting a little sidetracked


----------



## 93EXCivic

seanc6441 said:


> 30-100 compares Rose masya tier buds to sub $50 buds. A little unfair I feel.



Maybe but I don't know of too many buds between $30-$50. Also the Maysa is over $100.


----------



## Saoshyant

93EXCivic said:


> Maybe but I don't know of too many buds between $30-$50. Also the Maysa is over $100.



Not many, no.  Tomahawk & VSD3P come to mind


----------



## jogawag

Saoshyant said:


> Not many, no.  Tomahawk & VSD3P come to mind


Rose masya, Tomahawk, VSD 3 P etc. If you take into account the specific Earbuds, what will you do next if a powerful new product is announced at a subtle price?
Price ranges should be separated mechanically.
Let's decide in the price range below.
$ 0 - $ 10, $ 10 - $ 40, $ 40 - $ 100, $ 100 - $ 200, $ 200 +


----------



## jogawag

jogawag said:


> Rose masya, Tomahawk, VSD 3 P etc. If you take into account the specific Earbuds, what will you do next if a powerful new product is announced at a subtle price?
> Price ranges should be separated mechanically.
> Let's decide in the price range below.
> $ 0 - $ 10, $ 10 - $ 40, $ 40 - $ 100, $ 100 - $ 200, $ 200 +


Or below.
$ 0 - $ 20, $ 20 - $ 50, $ 50 - $ 100, $ 100 - $ 200, $ 200 +
People interested in the price range please set either [like].
Let's make it the final decision.


----------



## seanc6441

93EXCivic said:


> Maybe but I don't know of too many buds between $30-$50. Also the Maysa is over $100.


Oh true I got it on sale at €89 (which may be over $100.

Agreed with Jogawag about set intrevals as it leaves a more sustainable system in place for future earbuds.

If not set then proportional increments.


----------



## snip3r77

Does the graphene changes with burn in? Approximate hours that are required ?


----------



## jogawag (Oct 10, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> Oh true I got it on sale at €89 (which may be over $100.
> 
> Agreed with Jogawag about set intrevals as it leaves a more sustainable system in place for future earbuds.
> 
> If not set then proportional increments.


Then, please show your proposal.


----------



## seanc6441

jogawag said:


> Then, please show your proposal.



Proportionally increase by $10 for each category. I.E. 0-9.99, 10-29.99, 30-59.99, 60-99.99 and so on until you get up to the 200's+


----------



## eaglesgift (Oct 10, 2017)

Apologies for butting in but how about if the price was included in the overall rating rather than separating all the earbuds with arbitrary price bands?


----------



## jogawag

eaglesgift said:


> Apologies for butting in but how about if the price was included in the overall rating rather than separating all the earbuds with arbitrary price bands?


If you explain concretely, what would you like to do?


----------



## jogawag

seanc6441 said:


> Proportionally increase by $10 for each category. I.E. 0-9.99, 10-29.99, 30-59.99, 60-99.99 and so on until you get up to the 200's+


Your proposal is 7 categories, isn't it?
0-10, 10-30, 30-60, 60-100, 100-150, 150-200, 200-


----------



## jogawag

jogawag said:


> Your proposal is 7 categories, isn't it?
> 0-10, 10-30, 30-60, 60-100, 100-150, 150-200, 200-


I am sorry.
0-10, 10-30, 30-60, 60-100, 100-150, 150-210, 210-


----------



## thelonius97

eaglesgift said:


> Apologies for butting in but how about if the price was included in the overall rating rather than separating all the earbuds with arbitrary price bands?


I thought of that first, but I think people are more interested to know which earbud has the best SQ, not the best value.


----------



## eaglesgift (Oct 10, 2017)

thelonius97 said:


> I thought of that first, but I think people are more interested to know which earbud has the best SQ, not the best value.


OK...it just seems that whichever price bands you choose, they will just be random....If you have 0-20, 20-50 for example, a $19.99 earbud won't be compared to a $20.99 earbud and that just seems wrong. Or maybe I've misunderstood what you are doing... if you just gave people the ability to view earbuds by various price bands, but also had an overall view where they all appeared together in one single group that would make sense. If you went that way, you could let people choose the value bands themselves...like dropdown list boxes with a lower and upper value. I'm not sure if you're using a backend database with your site - it's fairly easy to program that functionality if you are.

EDIT: I'm talking about how the results are displayed rather than how the survey is presented so maybe I'm not even on the same page as everybody else here - sorry.  Also, I've just noticed you're using Google Forms so basically ignore everything I've said!


----------



## seanc6441

thelonius97 said:


> I thought of that first, but I think people are more interested to know which earbud has the best SQ, not the best value.


Both would be preferable. Rating buds and categorising them by price would be very handy for buyers.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 10, 2017)

eaglesgift said:


> OK...it just seems that whichever price bands you choose, they will just be random....If you have 0-20, 20-50 for example, a $19.99 earbud won't be compared to a $20.99 earbud and that just seems wrong. Or maybe I've misunderstood what you are doing... if you just gave people the ability to view earbuds by various price bands, but also had an overall view where they all appeared together in one single group that would make sense. If you went that way, you could let people choose the value bands themselves...like dropdown list boxes with a lower and upper value. I'm not sure if you're using a backend database with your site - it's fairly easy to program that functionality if you are.
> 
> EDIT: I'm talking about how the results are displayed rather than how the survey is presented so maybe I'm not even on the same page as everybody else here - sorry.


If the 19.99 earbud is compareable rating wise then one could ask the forum which people prefer. The idea of categorising is to give people perspective on the price differences and to stop a VE Monk being compared to a Shozy Stardust just because the rating is close.

At some stage you need to draw lines I think as long as you keep the intervals compact enough so that you're comparing buds of similar cost then that's the important thing.

On that note maybe my suggestion of proportional increases would not be a better idea than a simple $10/20 increments which would keep the possible difference of a bud being compared to another of just a $10/20 difference instead of a possible $50+ difference.

The problem with only having price being a viewing order option rather than a categorisation it might misguid people into thinking a $10 earbud rated 4.5 is equal to a $100 earbud of the same rating. Which is almost certainly not true. Also people who buy $5-10 earbuds may give such earbuds a higher rating if they never heard a better earbud before. Categorisation allows some perspective on that matter as it's safe to assume that as a general point of view, the more expensive earbud is better than the cheaper one of the same rating.


----------



## thelonius97

eaglesgift said:


> OK...it just seems that whichever price bands you choose, they will just be random....If you have 0-20, 20-50 for example, a $19.99 earbud won't be compared to a $20.99 earbud and that just seems wrong. Or maybe I've misunderstood what you are doing... if you just gave people the ability to view earbuds by various price bands, but also had an overall view where they all appeared together in one single group that would make sense. If you went that way, you could let people choose the value bands themselves...like dropdown list boxes with a lower and upper value. I'm not sure if you're using a backend database with your site - it's fairly easy to program that functionality if you are.
> 
> EDIT: I'm talking about how the results are displayed rather than how the survey is presented so maybe I'm not even on the same page as everybody else here - sorry.  Also, I've just noticed you're using Google Forms so basically ignore everything I've said!


Yeah, those borderline cases are an issue. I guess you just have to accept that not every earbud in a higher tier beats every earbud in a lower one.
And yeah, I'm using Google Forms linked to Sheets so my options are limited.


----------



## thelonius97

seanc6441 said:


> Both would be preferable. Rating buds and categorising them by price would be very handy for buyers.


Once there are enough ratings, I could add a column for price and then have a rating/price ratio to measure the value.


----------



## jogawag

thelonius97 said:


> Once there are enough ratings, I could add a column for price and then have a rating/price ratio to measure the value.


So, Here are all proposals(?).

0. 1 category.  [all]
1. 5 categories.[0-10,10-40,40-100,100-200,200+]
2. 5 categories.[0-20,20-50,50-100,100-200,200+]
3. 7 categories.[0-10,10-30,30-60,60-100,100-150,150-210,210+]

Then how do we do?


----------



## thelonius97

seanc6441 said:


> If the 19.99 earbud is compareable rating wise then one could ask the forum which people prefer. The idea of categorising is to give people perspective on the price differences and to stop a VE Monk being compared to a Shozy Stardust just because the rating is close.
> 
> At some stage you need to draw lines I think as long as you keep the intervals compact enough so that you're comparing buds of similar cost then that's the important thing.
> 
> On that note maybe my suggestion of proportional increases would not be a better idea than a simple $10/20 increments which would keep the possible difference of a bud being compared to another of just a $10/20 difference instead of a possible $50+ difference.


Exactly, the ratings are just for considering what to buy next; more research need to be done before actually pulling out your wallet.
The different intervals are to accommodate the fact that the amount of SQ/dollar increases very slowly at higher prices. For example, a $10 and a $50 might not be comparable, but a $200 and $250 one probably are.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 10, 2017)

thelonius97 said:


> Once there are enough ratings, I could add a column for price and then have a rating/price ratio to measure the value.


Would show scewed results. People who have not heard TOTL earbuds cannot express a realistic representation of rating a bud in relation to one they haven't heard.

You'll have all the good budget earbuds destroying the TOTL's regardless of if they are better value for sound quality or not.

I think categorical separation by price is the only unbiased fair way to categorise, nobody can dispute the price, but sound value is easily disputed and/or misrepresented.


----------



## thelonius97

jogawag said:


> So, Here are all proposals(?).
> 
> 0. 1 category.  [all]
> 1. 5 categories.[0-10,10-40,40-100,100-200,200+]
> ...


I vote for 2.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 10, 2017)

thelonius97 said:


> I vote for 2.


I vote for 2, too.

So, "5 categories.[0-20,20-50,50-100,100-200,200+]" is supported by 3men.
Let's use "5 categories.[0-20,20-50,50-100,100-200,200+]" for awhile, until an obvious problem is found.

Edit:
I'm sorry. I copied a wrong categories.


----------



## eaglesgift (Oct 10, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> Would show scewed results. People who have not heard TOTL earbuds cannot express a realistic representation of rating a bud in relation to one they haven't heard.
> 
> You'll have all the good budget earbuds destroying the TOTL's regardless of if they are better value for sound quality or not.
> 
> I think categorical separation by price is the only unbiased fair way to categorise, nobody can dispute the price, but sound value is easily disputed and/or misrepresented.


It still won't be unbiased though because, as you say, the ratings will be affected by what people have heard. Not only does this mean that someone like me (who only owns cheap earbuds) might overrate some of the cheaper ones, it also means that someone else, who owns $200+ earbuds might underrate the cheaper ones because they aren't really rating them for what they are.....Some people may compensate for price when rating but others might not...No perfect solution I guess. For me, I naturally take price into account when reading reviews and looking at ratings. If I see a $5 earbud with a 4.5 rating, I think that means it's an excellent earbud for $5, not that it's as good as a 4.5 rated $200 earbud.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 10, 2017)

thelonius97 said:


> Exactly, the ratings are just for considering what to buy next; more research need to be done before actually pulling out your wallet.
> The different intervals are to accommodate the fact that the amount of SQ/dollar increases very slowly at higher prices. For example, a $10 and a $50 might not be comparable, but a $200 and $250 one probably are.



I am sorry to propose late, but how about inserting the "Price at Registration" column before the "Rating" column?
I think "Price at Registration" will be a reference when deciding to purchase. . .


----------



## Danneq

seanc6441 said:


> If the 19.99 earbud is compareable rating wise then one could ask the forum which people prefer. The idea of categorising is to give people perspective on the price differences and to stop a VE Monk being compared to a Shozy Stardust just because the rating is close.
> 
> At some stage you need to draw lines I think as long as you keep the intervals compact enough so that you're comparing buds of similar cost then that's the important thing.
> 
> ...





eaglesgift said:


> It still won't be unbiased though because, as you say, the ratings will be affected by what people have heard. Not only does this mean that someone like me (who only owns cheap earbuds) might overrate some of the cheaper ones, it also means that someone else, who owns $200+ earbuds might underrate the cheaper ones because they aren't really rating them for what they are.....Some people may compensate for price when rating but others might not...No perfect solution I guess. For me, I naturally take price into account when reading reviews and looking at ratings. If I see a $5 earbud with a 4.5 rating, I think that means it's an excellent earbud for $5, not that it's as good as a 4.5 rated $200 earbud.





If you look at TOTL earbuds, or should I rather call them $100+ earbuds, from a few years ago some of the current ~$5 budget earbuds such as Monk+ or Vido are superior. I'm mainly thinking of stuff like Hisoundaudio Living (bright like nails on a black board) or NW Studio Pro (boomy bass and an overall "cotton like" sound) which both cost around $150 when they were still sold. At least my experience of them was not very good.

But I see the last 2 years or so as a great development in earbuds overall when it comes to sound and especially budget earbuds. The only TOTL earbuds post 2000, pre 2015 I would pick are Yuin PK1 and Blox TM7, but something like Shozy Stardust or the best Cypherus earbuds or Diomnes Lv2 are superior to them.

IMO of course.


----------



## Saoshyant

I don't see the point of a 200+ category because earbuds like BK, Zen 1, etc should be in the same category as Mojito and Campfred.


----------



## jogawag

Saoshyant said:


> I don't see the point of a 200+ category because earbuds like BK, Zen 1, etc should be in the same category as Mojito and Campfred.


He agreed to make a 200+ category, so please wait for a while for 200+ categories to be created.
However, it is still possible to vote.


----------



## Saoshyant

Just saying it's a bad decision for comparitive purposes IMO as someone with a lot of earbud experience.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 11, 2017)

Saoshyant said:


> Just saying it's a bad decision for comparitive purposes IMO as someone with a lot of earbud experience.


It is the result of discussing four classification methods in this thread by five people.
If there are many people with the same opinion as you, we will think again.
I hear that it is not difficult to change the classification method.


----------



## Danneq

What $200+ earbuds are there currently?

Rose Mojito? Celsus Gramo One? (or is it discontinued?) Cypherus CAX Black seems to be discontinued since it's difficult to find components. Cypherus Red Dragon has only had one pair made so far. Moondrop Liebesleid is up there. Yuin OK1 perhaps? Ah, and those Vietnamese (or was it Thai?) custom made earbuds that cost around $600.

In the future we have the upcoming new Astrotec earbud with astronomical prices. Also the mysterious VE Nirvana that might break the $1000 boundry for earbuds.


----------



## thelonius97

jogawag said:


> He agreed to make a 200+ category, so please wait for a while for 200+ categories to be created.
> However, it is still possible to vote.


So, do you still think I should make the $200+ category? @Saoshyant says it's not a good idea. And as @Danneq said, there aren't that many. I don't own any earbuds in that price range, so I can't say anything.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 11, 2017)

thelonius97 said:


> So, do you still think I should make the $200+ category? @Saoshyant says it's not a good idea. And as @Danneq said, there aren't that many. I don't own any earbuds in that price range, so I can't say anything.


I heared that it is not difficult to change the classification method.
Once we decided tomake 200+ tier, so that if that is not difficult, you should better make 200+ tier.(IMO)
If that is difficult, you should not better make 200+ tier.(IMO)

I leave it to your decision, I am very sorry.


----------



## seanc6441

eaglesgift said:


> It still won't be unbiased though because, as you say, the ratings will be affected by what people have heard. Not only does this mean that someone like me (who only owns cheap earbuds) might overrate some of the cheaper ones, it also means that someone else, who owns $200+ earbuds might underrate the cheaper ones because they aren't really rating them for what they are.....Some people may compensate for price when rating but others might not...No perfect solution I guess. For me, I naturally take price into account when reading reviews and looking at ratings. If I see a $5 earbud with a 4.5 rating, I think that means it's an excellent earbud for $5, not that it's as good as a 4.5 rated $200 earbud.



Then there's a good reason to have price categories. Most people looking to purchase new earbuds have an idea in their head what price they are willing to spend. Hence the term, budget earbuds.


----------



## thelonius97

jogawag said:


> I heared that it is not difficult to change the classification method.
> Once we decided tomake 200+ tier, so that if that is not difficult, you should better make 200+ tier.(IMO)
> If that is difficult, you should not better make 200+ tier.(IMO)
> 
> I leave it to your decision, I am very sorry.


No, it's easy to change. It takes around 5 minutes.

It's just that when you make a new tier, there are less options to compare to. Right now, according to @Danneq 's post, there are only 5 above $200 - Mojito, CAX Black, Red Dragon, Liebesleid, and OK1. If you think that they are significantly better than the ones under $200, then I'll add the new tier.


----------



## eaglesgift (Oct 11, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> Then there's a good reason to have price categories. Most people looking to purchase new earbuds have an idea in their head what price they are willing to spend. Hence the term, budget earbuds.


I think you might be missing my point really. If you spend most of your time listening with high-end earbuds, for example, your rating of a $5 earbud is likely to be coloured by your experience with much better phones. In fact, the judgement of somebody who's only ever listened to budget earbuds would be more valid in the budget category than the judgement of somebody who's been 'spoiled' by listening through high-end equipment. Of course, there is the possibility that you and others are able to be objective and make allowances for the cost of the earbuds you are rating but it's not guaranteed and even if you do, you will then have introduced a value for money factor into the SQ rating....


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 11, 2017)

eaglesgift said:


> I think you might be missing my point really. If you spend most of your time listening with high-end earbuds, for example, your rating of a $5 earbud is likely to be coloured by your experience with much better phones. In fact, the judgement of somebody who's only ever listened to budget earbuds would be more valid in the budget category than the judgement of somebody who's been 'spoiled' by listening through high-end equipment. Of course, there is the possibility that you and others are able to be objective and take account of the fact that an earbud you are rating only costs $5 but it's not guaranteed and even if you do, you will have introduced a value for money factor into the SQ rating....



I agree with your points, which is why separating earbud categories by price would allow people on a certain budget to more objectively view a group of earbuds (who's ratings would be more fairly compared) say to as someone looking at two 4 star earbuds in different price ranges which may sound night and day difference.

As I said the only non biased variant here is price, anything else is just subjective opinion.

For instance the ratings of the Monk and Vido compare more fairly than the ratings of graphene and Masya which is difficult to distinguish price-performance and compare the two.


----------



## golov17

Danneq said:


> What $200+ earbuds are there currently?
> 
> Rose Mojito? Celsus Gramo One? (or is it discontinued?) Cypherus CAX Black seems to be discontinued since it's difficult to find components. Cypherus Red Dragon has only had one pair made so far. Moondrop Liebesleid is up there. Yuin OK1 perhaps? Ah, and those Vietnamese (or was it Thai?) custom made earbuds that cost around $600.
> 
> In the future we have the upcoming new Astrotec earbud with astronomical prices. Also the mysterious VE Nirvana that might break the $1000 boundry for earbuds.


 NW Studio Neo, Ucotech es1103,  ATH CM7,700..


----------



## jogawag

thelonius97 said:


> No, it's easy to change. It takes around 5 minutes.
> 
> It's just that when you make a new tier, there are less options to compare to. Right now, according to @Danneq 's post, there are only 5 above $200 - Mojito, CAX Black, Red Dragon, Liebesleid, and OK1. If you think that they are significantly better than the ones under $200, then I'll add the new tier.



So, please add the new tier.


----------



## jogawag

How much is old Yuin OK1? Do any one know?
We must set tier to OK1.


----------



## jogawag

It seems that no one knew the price, so we will set Yuin OK1 2nd tier(under $200).


----------



## jogawag

*@thelonius97 **completed it!*
*Thank you very much.*
*Everyone, please enjoy this convenient system.*


----------



## jogawag

I forgot entry!
This is entry.
*Earbud Rating Survey*


----------



## bonson

jogawag said:


> It seems that no one knew the price, so we will set Yuin OK1 2nd tier(under $200).


It seems 205$ at Penon


----------



## jogawag

bonson said:


> It seems 205$ at Penon


Thank you!


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> NW Studio Neo, Ucotech es1103,  ATH CM7,700..



Forgot about NW Studio Neo and Ucotech es1103.

But ATH CM 7 & 700 are old and discontinued for many years.


----------



## jogawag

Danneq said:


> Forgot about NW Studio Neo and Ucotech es1103.
> 
> But ATH CM 7 & 700 are old and discontinued for many years.



Please add NW Studio Neo and Ucotech es1103 by using this system.

Errors/ Version differences/ Missing earbuds/ Suggestions- 
https://goo.gl/forms/JKmMA3FzPBXQ482D3  on 1st page.


----------



## 93EXCivic

Danneq said:


> What $200+ earbuds are there currently?
> .



If you including shipping, the CampFreds are over $200.


----------



## eaglesgift (Oct 11, 2017)

How are people rating the Monk + higher than the TY (Hi-Z) 32ohm? I've got both those phones and the Monks sound like cheap trash compared to the TY. The TY have really good mids, a much clearer sound and are far more dynamic compared to the Monk+

I think the biggest problem with those particular ratings (and many others I guess) is that people don't necessarily have both because there's no way they'd rate the Monks higher if they did.


----------



## Danneq (Oct 11, 2017)

93EXCivic said:


> If you including shipping, the CampFreds are over $200.



I don't think that shipping costs should be included, even if you have got a point.



eaglesgift said:


> How are people rating the Monk + higher than the TY (Hi-Z) 32ohm? I've got both those phones and the Monks sound like cheap trash compared to the TY. The TY have really good mids, a much clearer sound and are far more dynamic compared to the Monk+
> 
> I think the biggest problem with those particular ratings (and many others I guess) is that people don't necessarily have both because there's no way they'd rate the Monks higher if they did.



Do you own the first or second version of TY 32? The one with straight or L-shaped plug? I have only heard the first one but read that the second is not as good sounding as the first one. I like the neutralness of Monk+. TY32 is more fun but in the long run I might prefer Monk+...


----------



## eaglesgift

Danneq said:


> I don't think that shipping costs should be included, even if you have got a point.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you own the first or second version of TY 32? The one with straight or L-shaped plug? I have only heard the first one but read that the second is not as good sounding as the first one. I like the neutralness of Monk+ TY32 is more fun but in the long run I might prefer Monk+...


L-shaped plug. I wouldn't even call it a contest to be honest. The Monks I have sound awful compared to the TY 32...dull and lifeless..no clarity to the sound. I got them both at the same time and as soon as I plugged in the TY 32s I regretted ordering the Monks. Normally I have to spend ages switching between phones before I can decide which one I prefer but the difference was so obvious with these and I've checked again a few times since, hoping the Monks would improve. I didn't burn them in at all though - do you think they need it?


----------



## HungryPanda

my TY Hi-Z's have a right angled 2.5 mm balanced plug


----------



## eaglesgift (Oct 11, 2017)

I just swapped between the two listening to some hard rock, classical and electronic music. The Monks don't sound so awful on classical but the TY 32 still sounds much better. On rock the Monks have no texture in the mids, i.e. there's no crunch in the guitars. On JMJ Oxygene, the bass with the Monks is boomy and poorly defined. It's still a bit too strong with the TY 32 (it's the 2007 remaster and I think he overdid the bass) but it's quite a lot clearer...I can hear the attack part of the notes.

EDIT: I was using a Cayin N3 when I just wrote that. When I switched to a Shanling M1, the Monks were quite a lot better. Not better than the TY 32 but much closer.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 11, 2017)

eaglesgift said:


> How are people rating the Monk + higher than the TY (Hi-Z) 32ohm? I've got both those phones and the Monks sound like cheap trash compared to the TY. The TY have really good mids, a much clearer sound and are far more dynamic compared to the Monk+
> 
> I think the biggest problem with those particular ratings (and many others I guess) is that people don't necessarily have both because there's no way they'd rate the Monks higher if they did.



For me Monk+ was my first Chinese Earbuds.
However, when I heard it for the first time, I heard an ambiguous treble and a blurred bass, so I suspected that it was a problem and bought the second one. And it was exactly the same sound, so I could not understand why this sound is popular, and I sold both of them.

The sound of TY 32ohm is V-shaped Sig, and overall it sounds convincing even if it is slightly hazy.  So I still own it.

Edit:
BTW, I surprised the high evaluation of Rose Masya, so I could not stand it and I have bought it just now,  even though having Rose Mojito!
I need to hate this ranking, for the contents of my wallet!


----------



## Danneq

Now when the earbuds are divided by price categories I need to change my ratings...


----------



## chinmie

Danneq said:


> Do you own the first or second version of TY 32? The one with straight or L-shaped plug? I have only heard the first one but read that the second is not as good sounding as the first one. I like the neutralness of Monk+. TY32 is more fun but in the long run I might prefer Monk+...



i have owned both, i like the L plug better. the straight plug is more controlled, but to me there are many more better substitute for it. the L plug is more unique sounding


----------



## eaglesgift

chinmie said:


> i have owned both, i like the L plug better. the straight plug is more controlled, but to me there are many more better substitute for it. the L plug is more unique sounding


I really like them. Most of my IEMs are cheap KZs etc. The best I have are TFZ Exclusive 5 and I'd say the TY 32 buds are nearly up there with them, which is pretty good considering they cost 8 times less.

I definitely want to get some more earbuds if these are a good indication of the value out there.


----------



## jogawag

Danneq said:


> Now when the earbuds are divided by price categories I need to change my ratings...


Do you think which Earbuds' Rating will change in particular?


----------



## snip3r77

Really liking the graphenes. Basically it's a *Vi*(agra)*do*


----------



## ctaxxxx (Oct 11, 2017)

Took the survey. Are we rating earbuds on overall quality (such as including build, comfort, fit, etc), or just on sound quality alone?

Also, submitted a response to add the Blur buds (& Diomnes Lvl 2) since they have gotten some mentions on this forum. I may have to try some of these other buds, depending on the results. Still haven't decided if I want to drop $700 on the CAX Red Dragon... I may keep my limit around $300 honestly.


----------



## waynes world

eaglesgift said:


> How are people rating the Monk + higher than the TY (Hi-Z) 32ohm? I've got both those phones and the Monks sound like cheap trash compared to the TY. The TY have really good mids, a much clearer sound and are far more dynamic compared to the Monk+
> 
> I think the biggest problem with those particular ratings (and many others I guess) is that people don't necessarily have both because there's no way they'd rate the Monks higher if they did.



That's one reason why I am hesitant to do the ratings myself. As I get more experienced with earbuds, I feel that my personal ratings are constantly changing. 

Also, I would probably give the Monk+'s, Vido's, Qian39's, EMX500's and Graphenes all a general rating of "amazing bang for the buck", and I would be happy to recommend any of them to anyone, so they all get a "5". But my personal ratings based on SQ would be Graphenes>EMX500>Qian39>Vido=Monk+, so based on that, they might get  ratings of 5/4/3/2/2. And that's only right now - how about after I've added another 100 pairs to the collection lol.

So yeah, doing the rating is a bit challenging for me.


----------



## theoutsider

jogawag said:


> For me Monk+ was my first Chinese Earbuds.
> However, when I heard it for the first time, I heard an ambiguous treble and a blurred bass, so I suspected that it was a problem and bought the second one. And it was exactly the same sound, so I could not understand why this sound is popular, and I sold both of them.
> 
> The sound of TY 32ohm is V-shaped Sig, and overall it sounds convincing even if it is slightly hazy.  So I still own it.
> ...


You seem to own some high-end earbuds, which earbuds are your favorites?


----------



## waynes world (Oct 11, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> Really liking the graphenes. Basically it's a *Vi*(agra)*do*



They are friggin' awesome, huh! I really love the bass: Clean, impact-full, detailed, and it seems to go lowwww (for an earbud, especially when amped)  And great clarity and air throughout the FR. Pretty good indeed!


----------



## snip3r77

waynes world said:


> They are friggin' awesome, huh! I really love the bass: Clean, impact-full, detailed, and it seems to go lowwww (especially when amped)  And great clarity and air throughout the FR. Pretty good indeed!



https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-diy-graphene.22565/reviews

I don't know what they did with the Graphenes but it's one of the best buy of '17.
And it's even better than the Shozy BK ( $165 )

I'm already liking it. I read one needs to run this thing in. Just wondering how many hours does it need?


----------



## thelonius97 (Oct 11, 2017)

ctaxxxx said:


> Took the survey. Are we rating earbuds on overall quality (such as including build, comfort, fit, etc), or just on sound quality alone?
> 
> Also, submitted a response to add the Blur buds (& Diomnes Lvl 2) since they have gotten some mentions on this forum. I may have to try some of these other buds, depending on the results. Still haven't decided if I want to drop $700 on the CAX Red Dragon... I may keep my limit around $300 honestly.


I was thinking just sound quality since comfort/fit varies from to person to person. I'm not sure if people find build important, though.

Also, I couldn't find the prices (or any information in general) for either the Blur buds or the Diomnes. Could you provide the info?


----------



## jogawag (Oct 11, 2017)

cursing said:


> You seem to own some high-end earbuds, which earbuds are your favorites?


Now,
1, Shozy BK (VEPad)
2. Moondrop Liebesleid (SiliconPad)
Almost the order of my headphone inventory.


----------



## ctaxxxx

thelonius97 said:


> I was thinking just sound quality since comfort/fit varies from to person to person. I'm not sure if people find build important, though.
> 
> Also, I couldn't find the prices (or any information in general) for either the Blur buds or the Diomnes. Could you provide the info?



Both buds can only be purchased by their respective creators through Facebook or email (Wong and Abnormal Sound). So I guess that makes accessibility kind of hard and not qualified? The Cypherus buds were like that too though, despite the new website created recently.


----------



## thelonius97

ctaxxxx said:


> Both buds can only be purchased by their respective creators through Facebook or email (Wong and Abnormal Sound). So I guess that makes accessibility kind of hard and not qualified? The Cypherus buds were like that too though, despite the new website created recently.


If you could provide the rough price range, that would be sufficient.


----------



## ctaxxxx

thelonius97 said:


> If you could provide the rough price range, that would be sufficient.



Both are $150+, under $200 when excluding shipping.


----------



## theoutsider

jogawag said:


> Now,
> 1, Shozy BK (VEPad)
> 2. Moondrop Liebesleid (SiliconPad)
> Almost the order of my headphone inventory.


So MX985 ended up somewhere in the middle of your ranking? Do you intend to get graphene anytime soon? I wonder which position you will slot Graphene into?


----------



## jogawag

cursing said:


> So MX985 ended up somewhere in the middle of your ranking? Do you intend to get graphene anytime soon? I wonder which position you will slot Graphene into?


I don't like MX985's artificial treble so much.
I have just bought Rose Masya, so next time(after a week or month) maybe I may get the graphene.
Everyone praises the sound of graphene, so I'm expecting but I do not know how its sound will feel really.


----------



## Saoshyant (Oct 11, 2017)

Only other ones I can think of would be the Zen Black, I believe Asura Black as well.  Perhaps the most expensive Blur model, too.  It would kind of be like making a 2k+ IEM category.  While there are options, there aren't many.

As far as whether they're better than sub-200:  Danneq would put Red Dragon up against most full-sized headphones as far as quality goes, but you can probably count on one hand the amount of people in the world that currently own it.  OK1 has been reported to have lackluster value for the cost by a fair margin.  Mojito is one of the best classical earbuds made, especially for it's sound stage.  Can't comment on the rest, for now at least.

@jogawag I hope you like the Masya, as I still think it's an utterly phenomenal earbud.


----------



## damex

i tried today mbp 13 -> usb to microusb anker powerline -> pha3 -> dual 3.5mm to 2.5mm balanced peterek adapter with rean connectors/socket and nucleotide wire -> ve zen 2.0 standard 2.5mm  balanced.

guess what i did straight away? i contacted lee from veclan to get ve zen 2.0 with dual 3.5 for pha3!

btw what is the major difference between zen v1 and v2? why on old chart v2 is rated lower then v1? looks like we can not get v1 anymore while v1 monk is still available o_O


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 11, 2017)

jogawag said:


> I don't like MX985's artificial treble so much.
> I have just bought Rose Masya, so next time(after a week or month) maybe I may get the graphene.
> Everyone praises the sound of graphene, so I'm expecting but I do not know how its sound will feel really.


Rose Masya needs some real effort spent on getting the right fit and foam combination to bring out a full sound. Clarity is unreal though. I'm waiting for my ve monk ex pack to arrive before giving a verdict of the masya. Also going to burn it in for 50 hours for a fair review.

Most people suggested the full foams but I think you lose some of the magic detail with full foams. Going to try monk thin foam + cut a monk donut foam and put it over the thin to thicken up the seal for better low end.


----------



## Danneq (Oct 11, 2017)

jogawag said:


> Do you think which Earbuds' Rating will change in particular?



Many, but not all of them. I only gave CAX Red Dragon 5 since I think it's much better than all other TOTL earbuds I've heard. Now I can give Shozy Stardust, CAX Black and some others 5 as well. Something like Vido can go up to 4 or 5 among budget earbuds as well as NiceNHK PK2. Those were 3 before.



Saoshyant said:


> Only other ones I can think of would be the Zen Black, I believe Asura Black as well.  Perhaps the most expensive Blur model, too.  It would kind of be like making a 2k+ IEM category.  While there are options, there aren't many.
> 
> As far as whether they're better than sub-200:  Danneq would put Red Dragon up against most full-sized headphones as far as quality goes, but you can probably count on one hand the amount of people in the world that currently own it.  OK1 has been reported to have lackluster value for the cost by a fair margin.  Mojito is one of the best classical earbuds made, especially for it's sound stage.  Can't comment on the rest, for now at least.
> 
> @jogawag I hope you like the Masya, as I still think it's an utterly phenomenal earbud.



Of course! I forgot Zen Black! Those are around $350 or something.

I think I currently own the only pair of Red Dragon in existence. It was custom made for head fier ProLOL. When he decided to sell them he offered them to me. It was a bit cheaper than then original price but still a little bit over $600 with shipping. About $200 over my earbud budget I still could not imagine those passing me by. There are perhaps a handful of people who have heard them. The sound is really like full size headphones. The same is the case with CAX Black, just that the soundstage is smaller and more up front on CAX Black than on Red Dragon.

Apparently the cable on Red Dragon is what costs money. It really is like a small fire hose and not very portable at all.

By the way, just got the CampFred2 that I bought from @ricesteam . Thanks mate! Really nice. Need to compare them to my pair of CampFred.


----------



## Saoshyant

@Danneq It's your fault for me owning CampFred, now I have 3 Cypherus.  Maybe Black one day, but happy with what I have.


----------



## Danneq

Saoshyant said:


> @Danneq It's your fault for me owning CampFred, now I have 3 Cypherus.  Maybe Black one day, but happy with what I have.



Sorry!

And ProLoL said it was my fault that he custom ordered Red Dragon. My praise of CAX Black is what made him contact Cypherus. He tried the best earbud possible and then moved on to other hobbies. And the rest of us are still here. Heck, I enjoy my Vido and Monk+ despite owning some great TOTL earbuds. It's not just a hobby...


----------



## jogawag (Jul 7, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Rose Masya needs some real effort spent on getting the right fit and foam combination to bring out a full sound. Clarity is unreal though. I'm waiting for my ve monk ex pack to arrive before giving a verdict of the masya. Also going to burn it in for 50 hours for a fair review.
> 
> Most people suggested the full foams but I think you lose some of the magic detail with full foams. Going to try monk thin foam + cut a monk donut foam and put it over the thin to thicken up the seal for better low end.



Thank you to teach Masya's  burn in time.
I have Mojito, but forget about burn in time.

And I'm waiting for my 3 VE ex packs too!

My PK brothers Preparing for Winter?
(all underwears are VE thin pad, and Cresyn Diy docomo PK2 / Diy MX500 PK2 overwears are Hiegi dounut pad,
                                                           Yuin PK3's are VE dounut pad[emphasize bass].)


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 11, 2017)

jogawag said:


> Thank you to teach Masya's  burn in time.
> I have Mojito, but forget about burn in time.
> 
> And I'm waiting for my 3 VE ex packs too!
> ...


I always get mixed results with monk foams and thick donut foams above it. Always get a muddy sound or some frequencies too dull.

I hope if i add 2x monk thin foam (1 full, 1 donut cut out) I will get the same sound as heigi donut but with more rounded sound. We'll see!

My Masya's are crying out for a perfect foam to make it full but crystal clear. I will continue the search


----------



## tinkertailor (Oct 11, 2017)

How's the bass on the graphene compared to vido and emx500?


----------



## thelonius97

"Zen White" is selling for $999... And below it says, "Yes , we have a more extreme White Edition, but plz do not pay for them." (link)


----------



## waynes world

tinkertailor said:


> How's the bass on the graphene compared to vido and emx500?



Less mid-bass hump. Cleaner, more detailed, yet still very impact full. More sub-bass to my ears. Ymmv.


----------



## 93EXCivic

How are the Cypherus Blue Darths? I have heard they are bass heavy. What are they comparable to?


----------



## cocolinho

93EXCivic said:


> How are the Cypherus Blue Darths? I have heard they are bass heavy. What are they comparable to?


I have them , along with a bunch of others buds. They are not bass heavy, to my ears they are pretty balanced actually


----------



## jogawag (Oct 12, 2017)

Due to the convinience Earbuds ranking sytem, I had bought Rose Masya and NiceHCK DIY Graphene MX760 already!
That is terrible  money-eater devil system!
My damage is over $100. . .


----------



## 93EXCivic

cocolinho said:


> I have them , along with a bunch of others buds. They are not bass heavy, to my ears they are pretty balanced actually



Do you have Campfred2s? Could you compare?


----------



## snip3r77

jogawag said:


> Due to the convinience Earbuds ranking sytem, I had bought Rose Masya and NiceHCK DIY Graphene MX760 already!
> That is terrible  money-eater devil system!
> My damage is over $100. . .


Would like to know your earbud inventory lol


----------



## JohnVoight

Hi,
Is the graphene earbud on other popular ali stores same as the NiceHck ones? I am asking since the NiceHck graphenes are priced higher compared to the rest and also shipping is high.
If the rest are the same then i might buy from any of those stores.


----------



## jogawag

snip3r77 said:


> Would like to know your earbud inventory lol


You can know it easily, 1st Click my name, 2nd Click my [profile].
Or it is only joking?


----------



## ctaxxxx

93EXCivic said:


> How are the Cypherus Blue Darths? I have heard they are bass heavy. What are they comparable to?



Think of a sub-bass focused Zen 2. They're not mid-bass heavy like Vido's that drown out the mids and have sharp highs. More sub-bass heavy, which drown out all other frequencies. It's a dark sounding bud with foams.  

They're the first buds where I actually prefer them without foams. I should look for some silicon rings to keep them in place actually...


----------



## theoutsider

jogawag said:


> Due to the convinience Earbuds ranking sytem, I had bought Rose Masya and NiceHCK DIY Graphene MX760 already!
> That is terrible  money-eater devil system!
> My damage is over $100. . .


man, I apologize for provoking you into spending


----------



## golov17

https://www.amazon.com/NICEHCK-EB20...&qid=1507775346&sr=1-2&keywords=NICEHCK+EB200


Spoiler


----------



## flamesofarctica

eaglesgift said:


> How are people rating the Monk + higher than the TY (Hi-Z) 32ohm? I've got both those phones and the Monks sound like cheap trash compared to the TY. The TY have really good mids, a much clearer sound and are far more dynamic compared to the Monk+
> 
> I think the biggest problem with those particular ratings (and many others I guess) is that people don't necessarily have both because there's no way they'd rate the Monks higher if they did.



I have both, really enjoy the Monk+ and find the TY HI-Z 32 to be nigh on unlistenable due to the harsh upper mids. So it's all down to preference really. Different for the TY HI-Z 32 balanced, and the Seahf 32, both of which I liked as neither suffered this. I never had the v1 TY 32 though, pretty sure mine was the later version.


----------



## flamesofarctica

damex said:


> i tried today mbp 13 -> usb to microusb anker powerline -> pha3 -> dual 3.5mm to 2.5mm balanced peterek adapter with rean connectors/socket and nucleotide wire -> ve zen 2.0 standard 2.5mm  balanced.
> 
> guess what i did straight away? i contacted lee from veclan to get ve zen 2.0 with dual 3.5 for pha3!
> 
> btw what is the major difference between zen v1 and v2? why on old chart v2 is rated lower then v1? looks like we can not get v1 anymore while v1 monk is still available o_O



I can't comment on the v1 and V2 differences as I haven't heard the V1, although from what I've read they're quite different. The original (v1) Monk isn't available any more, only the Monk+


----------



## eaglesgift (Oct 12, 2017)

flamesofarctica said:


> I have both, really enjoy the Monk+ and find the TY HI-Z 32 to be nigh on unlistenable due to the harsh upper mids. So it's all down to preference really. Different for the TY HI-Z 32 balanced, and the Seahf 32, both of which I liked as neither suffered this. I never had the v1 TY 32 though, pretty sure mine was the later version.


There's certainly nothing harsh about the sound signature of the TYs I've got, and the Monks are quite dull and lifeless. I'm not a particularly fussy person either - I like most of the cheap IEMs I've bought in one way or another. We must have very different ears or there is a lot of variation between different batches of these earbuds.

EDIT: Actually, as something of an earbud novice, I was really surprised how much of a difference the sponges make - I was trying out a freebie pair of earbuds today that came with a cheap DAP I bought a while ago and they sounded ridiculously bassy...really boomy and overpowering. I was about to toss them in the bin when I thought I'd just try them with a pair of the thin sponges that came with the Monks first and they sounded completely different. Much more reasonable bass and quite a nice sound really.


----------



## flamesofarctica (Oct 12, 2017)

eaglesgift said:


> There's certainly nothing harsh about the sound signature of the TYs I've got, and the Monks are quite dull and lifeless. I'm not a particularly fussy person either - I like most of the cheap IEMs I've bought in one way or another. We must have very different ears or there is a lot of variation between different batches of these earbuds.
> 
> EDIT: Actually, as something of an earbud novice, I was really surprised how much of a difference the sponges make - I was trying out a freebie pair of earbuds today that came with a cheap DAP I bought a while ago and they sounded ridiculously bassy...really boomy and overpowering. I was about to toss them in the bin when I thought I'd just try them with a pair of the thin sponges that came with the Monks first and they sounded completely different. Much more reasonable bass and quite a nice sound really.



No, have tried more than 1 of each and they seem consistent, I genuinely think it will just be ears / sound signature preferences / sources / music tastes even. So many factors.. eg the Monk+ sound fantastic to me with 70s/80s rock and metal via the the Walnut V2.

And yes, the foams can make a big difference. I seem to remember somebody recommended I tried the TY HP32 amped, with double foams, and to my ears it was the best I'd heard them. Nothing against TY by the way, I love the TY320 and 400S.


----------



## thftg

I've checked the latest tier list and it seems that most of the good earbuds do not have microphones. Any recommendations for earbuds with microphone within $30?


----------



## snip3r77

thftg said:


> I've checked the latest tier list and it seems that most of the good earbuds do not have microphones. Any recommendations for earbuds with microphone within $30?


High tier and $30 doesn’t compute. But the graphenes is good


----------



## thftg

snip3r77 said:


> High tier and $30 doesn’t compute. But the graphenes is good


Graphenes look very interesting, but they have no mic either. Is there something comparable but equipped with a microphone?


----------



## JohnVoight

Are the NiceHCK Graphene and other ali stores Graphene earbuds same? Also is there difference between the black and clear shells?


----------



## snip3r77

JohnVoight said:


> Are the NiceHCK Graphene and other ali stores Graphene earbuds same? Also is there difference between the black and clear shells?


From what I read the clears are better


----------



## Narayan23

Hi guys, I need a bit of advice, I received my Graphenes from NICEHCK but I´m having some doubts, they sound very good but I have to turn the volume up a lot more than with my other earbuds which I find strange since these sould be easier to move from the specs? I also like to crank the volume up high now and then, and when I do this the left earbud emits  screeching / crackling noises which is a first for me. Have any other Graphene owners expereinced this? TIA.


----------



## acap13

Narayan23 said:


> Hi guys, I need a bit of advice, I received my Graphenes from NICEHCK but I´m having some doubts, they sound very good but I have to turn the volume up a lot more than with my other earbuds which I find strange since these sould be easier to move from the specs? I also like to crank the volume up high now and then, and when I do this the left earbud emits  screeching / crackling noises which is a first for me. Have any other Graphene owners expereinced this? TIA.



Just to clarify, are you sure you connect your graphene properly? If its not the case then you probably just got a lemon Graphene because it is very sensitive pair of earbud and shouldnt need to crank up the volume very loudly.


----------



## Narayan23

Thanks acap, yes I tried it on my laptop and on my phone, same issue with both sources.


----------



## acap13

Narayan23 said:


> Thanks acap, yes I tried it on my laptop and on my phone, same issue with both sources.


Best way is to contact the store you bought from. They might be replacing the unit with the new one.


----------



## Narayan23

I already contacted Jim from NICEHCK explaining the problem but his answer was for me to shoot a video to see what the problem is, I answered back saying that was futile since my problems won´t show up on a video and he replied insisting on the video, I´m not into pointless excersises.


----------



## eaglesgift

Narayan23 said:


> I already contacted Jim from NICEHCK explaining the problem but his answer was for me to shoot a video to see what the problem is, I answered back saying that was futile since my problems won´t show up on a video and he replied insisting on the video, I´m not into pointless excersises.


There seems to be a trend of Asian vendors asking dissatisfied customers for videos. When I was having a battery issue with my Cayin N3, which I bought from a vendor here in Thailand, they wanted me to make a video explaining the problem. I refused - I'm not a performing monkey and, like you, I thought it was a completely pointless exercise.


----------



## DBaldock9

Narayan23 said:


> I already contacted Jim from NICEHCK explaining the problem but his answer was for me to shoot a video to see what the problem is, I answered back saying that was futile since my problems won´t show up on a video and he replied insisting on the video, I´m not into pointless excersises.



If they asked that of me, they'd get a silent video - since the mic on my phone doesn't work (I have to use a Bluetooth earpiece for phone calls...).


----------



## knudsen

eaglesgift said:


> There seems to be a trend of Asian vendors asking dissatisfied customers for videos. When I was having a battery issue with my Cayin N3, which I bought from a vendor here in Thailand, they wanted me to make a video explaining the problem. I refused - I'm not a performing monkey and, like you, I thought it was a completely pointless exercise.


I think they reason that they can get rid of most cheaters if they demand a video, and they probably also found out that many are too lazy or expect the effort to be pointless and back off. But its a good hourly pay to use 2 mins to make some kind of video no matter if it can't be used for proof at all, they don't care about that as far as I can see


----------



## eaglesgift

knudsen said:


> I think they reason that they can get rid of most cheaters if they demand a video, and they probably also found out that many are too lazy or expect the effort to be pointless and back off. But its a good hourly pay to use 2 mins to make some kind of video no matter if it can't be used for proof at all, they don't care about that as far as I can see


I was happy to send the player back but I didn't see why I should make a video first. You can't video a player draining to 0% battery over 5 days when it's turned off - not in 2 minutes anyway!


----------



## theoutsider

DBaldock9 said:


> If they asked that of me, they'd get a silent video - since the mic on my phone doesn't work (I have to use a Bluetooth earpiece for phone calls...).


maybe you should skip on an audio purchase and get yourself a new phone


----------



## DBaldock9

cursing said:


> maybe you should skip on an audio purchase and get yourself a new phone



We're drifting OT - but for a new phone, I want one I can root, and run Android 6 on, since Xposed Framework isn't available for newer versions, yet.


----------



## seanc6441

acap13 said:


> Best way is to contact the store you bought from. They might be replacing the unit with the new one.


NickHCK is out of stock unfortunately, where else sells the same graphene as NickHCK?


----------



## HungryPanda

You could always try the **** PT15's, sound great and are also graphene


----------



## theoutsider (Oct 13, 2017)

DBaldock9 said:


> We're drifting OT - but for a new phone, I want one I can root, and run Android 6 on, since Xposed Framework isn't available for newer versions, yet.


You can always get a smartphone with good DAC. My smartphone has sabre ess9018. I think Vivo or ZTE offers phones with AKM DAC, you can just play music straight through it. I din root my android phone cause the built in amp might not run without the default firmware.


----------



## 93EXCivic

Campfred2s are truly awesome. I think I have hit my end game. The clarity is on another level from any of the cheaper buds I have tried.

There are couple I want to try out the Yinman 600ohm (as a more neutral compliment), the Shozy BK and maybe the Blue Darth or something with big banging bass but I am certainly done with inexpensive earbuds.


----------



## mbwilson111

jogawag said:


> Hi-Z HP-314P was added in ear-buds-round-up list by ClieOS at 2017/05/22.
> I highly recommend Hi-Z HP-314P (="TY HI-Z AWK-314P", https://aliexpress.com/item//32810782836.html).
> It has exactly AKG sound, and it exceeds the sound quality of AKG N20 about sub bass.
> So, it has more than ten times cost performance!
> Edit:Using with Monk Plus foams will be much better.



My TY Hi-Z AWK-314P arrived today.  Listening now.  Very comfotable.  I am enjoying my music. Sounding really nice.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 13, 2017)

mbwilson111 said:


> My TY Hi-Z AWK-314P arrived today.  Listening now.  Very comfotable.  I am enjoying my music. Sounding really nice.


I am glad that I could please you. Please vote for Earbuds Surbey!
And if you have some margin (less than $7.5), it's better to try seahf AWK-F32P [https://m.aliexpress.com/item//32825817976.html]
which has the same housing and which is made this a bit clearer.( using with Monk Plus thin foams .)
This new one sounds like AKG K312P.


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> You could always try the **** PT15's, sound great and are also graphene


True but I want to try the hyped graphenes lol


----------



## Saoshyant

93EXCivic said:


> Campfred2s are truly awesome. I think I have hit my end game. The clarity is on another level from any of the cheaper buds I have tried.
> 
> There are couple I want to try out the Yinman 600ohm (as a more neutral compliment), the Shozy BK and maybe the Blue Darth or something with big banging bass but I am certainly done with inexpensive earbuds.



There is a misconception about the Blue Darth people have.  Herry's comment about it's bass is It's the bassiest of his earbuds, but that does not inherently make it bassy.  There are much bassier earbuds out there.  It has a fun sound to it, but those expecting a bassy sound will be disappointed.  Svara-L, 150S, Zen 1, Edimun V3 Rhodium are all better options for this route.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> True but I want to try the hyped graphenes lol



Hyped? Who's hyping the graphenes?


----------



## HungryPanda

Us


----------



## jant71

Graphene vs. Svara-L quick comparison Please


----------



## HungryPanda

Svara-L  wins


----------



## acap13

HungryPanda said:


> Svara-L  wins



Interesting.. I love the statement that will have high possibility to suck my wallet dry. Why do you think Svara- L wins ? Does it throw out loudspeaker-like soundstage the way Graphene does?


----------



## HungryPanda

I just find it to be more refined with a much more accurate sound, I like both but the Svara-L is way ahead in quality


----------



## acap13

Is it much more upgrade ? I dont have so many earbud to compare with and Graphene is the priciest I have, but I do have reference headphone which i compare with. Graphene pairs with AK320 is by huge leap and bound better than pairing with my Mojo. Guess Graphene demand some serious source more than amplification. Have you experiecethe same way with both buds?


----------



## HungryPanda

Yes I can drive both well with my Fiio X5III but use them most at my desk with a good Fostex amp


----------



## HungryPanda

The metal shell of the Svara-L oozes quality and it sounds as good as the Rose Maysa to me


----------



## HungryPanda (Oct 13, 2017)

Comparison side by side, Graphene on the left, Svara-L on the right:






and closer up:


----------



## acap13

@HungryPanda Thanks for the pictures. Really cool. I will be looking Svara - L for next upgrade. It is like the best deal below $100 since it can hold on its own with Rose Masya


----------



## chinmie

Narayan23 said:


> Hi guys, I need a bit of advice, I received my Graphenes from NICEHCK but I´m having some doubts, they sound very good but I have to turn the volume up a lot more than with my other earbuds which I find strange since these sould be easier to move from the specs? I also like to crank the volume up high now and then, and when I do this the left earbud emits  screeching / crackling noises which is a first for me. Have any other Graphene owners expereinced this? TIA.



The graphene is one of my easiest buds to drive



HungryPanda said:


> You could always try the **** PT15's, sound great and are also graphene





seanc6441 said:


> True but I want to try the hyped graphenes lol



the PT15 sounds different though compared to the graphenes. the PT15 is more studio monitor-neutral, while the graphene is more like emx500 - fun sound. also the graphene have better resolution and soundstage than the PT15 



jant71 said:


> Graphene vs. Svara-L quick comparison Please



Graphene - better treble extension, lighter body and cable, overall "cleaner"  sound
Svara L - better built, warmer sound, bigger soundstage, bigger bass (might be too much to some), more versatile fitting (normal or over ear), removable cable


----------



## jogawag (Oct 13, 2017)

HungryPanda said:


> Comparison side by side:
> 
> and closer up:



In my country there is a person saying that sound quality is bad for purchasers of the early version of Svara-L, and the evaluation varies greatly.
I saw the blog description that the initial version Svara-L has a high impedance of about 300 ohms or more and sound quality is bad.

Current version of Svara-L's AliExpress shop, impedance display and number of sales are as follows.

HCK: 32/96 ohm: 47 (The meaning of this ohm display is unconfirmed, but it may be chosen at the time of purchase)
AK Audio: 12 ohm: 4
CKLewis Audio: 64ohm: 3

It is strange that the impedance display is different for each shop.

Which shop did you purchase?

Edit:
Actually, I bought SVARA-L from hotfi on the sale start date, but it seemed like a high impedance and it was small sound in a normal Volume.
Moreover, even if the sound was made bigger, the sound quality was bad.
However, the SVARA-L was returned to the store because the electricity was leaked and my ears hurt.

I have not purchased it since. But if the sound quality is good enough for you to say, I will consider buying from HCK.
(Actually, Rose Masya has not been shipped yet by  unknown reason from hofi, so I will cancel it.)


----------



## HungryPanda

I got mine from NiceHCK Audio Store on aliexpress and it was described at 32 ohms


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> I got mine from NiceHCK Audio Store on aliexpress and it was described at 32 ohms



I was able to get the introductory discount (offered on the "Earbuds Anonymous" Facebook group) for the original 115Ω Svara L, and they really do have a big, warm Bass sound.

Of the three (so far) earbuds with MMCX connectors that I've got, I think I'd compare then this way:
1.) Svara L (115Ω, Metal housing) - Looks the most expensive (and was).  Has the most Bass, but the Midrange / Treble are recessed, compared to the other two.
2.) **** PT15 v2 (32Ω, Metal housing) - These are the 2017 model, with much more Bass than the 2016 version.  Close to balanced Bass / Midrange / Treble.
3.) Daik DK-Song (16Ω, Wood housing) - Not as much Bass, but very good Midrange & Treble.  Smallest, and most comfortable fit.


----------



## thelonius97 (Oct 14, 2017)

EDIT: Never mind


----------



## snip3r77 (Oct 13, 2017)

chinmie said:


> The graphene is one of my easiest buds to drive
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow Not a lot of earbuds can remove cable


----------



## chinmie

snip3r77 said:


> Wow Not a lot of earbuds can remove cable



the **** PT15 also use removable cable, and also the Ourart ti7


----------



## DBaldock9

chinmie said:


> the **** PT15 also use removable cable, and also the Ourart ti7



Looks like Penon Audio is selling the OurArt ti7, as well as several new ToneKing MusicMaker earbuds (ranging from 32Ω - 200Ω), which have MMCX connectors.


----------



## chinmie

DBaldock9 said:


> Looks like Penon Audio is selling the OurArt ti7, as well as several new ToneKing MusicMaker earbuds (ranging from 32Ω - 200Ω), which have MMCX connectors.



yep, totally forgot the new tonekings, thanks for reminding me


----------



## acap13 (Oct 14, 2017)

chinmie said:


> The graphene is one of my easiest buds to drive
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Probably foam can play major role here and why we hear differently from others. I find Graphene with thin Monk+ is the more technically superior than stock donut and full foam. I dont care about the more 'fun' sound and bigger bass for the stock foams when they hurt the imaging and treble extension.

By the way, I see you have handful of Indonesian earbuds. Would you compare them to Graphene? Something like Willsound, Heavenly sound and Red Demun. And other one as bonus, Moondrop VX Pro.


----------



## chinmie

acap13 said:


> Probably foam can play major role here and why we hear differently from others. I find Graphene with thin Monk+ is the more technically superior than stock donut and full foam. I dont care about the more 'fun' sound and bigger bass for the stock foams when they hurt the imaging and treble extension.
> 
> By the way, I see you have handful of Indonesian earbuds. Would you compare them to Graphene? Something like Willsound, Heavenly sound and Red Demun. And other one as bonus, Moondrop VX Pro.



soundwise, the closest comparison to the graphene is the Willsound MK2 (they are also priced similarly). the graphene have a more clean and polished sound, but the bass can be wolly on some songs. the MK2 has a faster attack on the bass, more forward mid, and a more "raw" sounding mid and treble. on rock tracks, i prefer the MK2.

compared to the VX Pro, the vx has less bass, but more resolving and fatter mid. the problem i have with VX is the fitting, it is a little small for my ears


----------



## acap13

chinmie said:


> soundwise, the closest comparison to the graphene is the Willsound MK2 (they are also priced similarly). the graphene have a more clean and polished sound, but the bass can be wolly on some songs. the MK2 has a faster attack on the bass, more forward mid, and a more "raw" sounding mid and treble. on rock tracks, i prefer the MK2.
> 
> compared to the VX Pro, the vx has less bass, but more resolving and fatter mid. the problem i have with VX is the fitting, it is a little small for my ears



Thanks for the comparisons. The Willsound is as black background as the Graphene? If thats the case, i would be interested.. By the way, is Red Demun is another league compared to the Graphene?


----------



## chinmie

acap13 said:


> Thanks for the comparisons. The Willsound is as black background as the Graphene? If thats the case, i would be interested.. By the way, is Red Demun is another league compared to the Graphene?



yup, their soundstage, while both equally good, are rather different on presentation. imagine sitting in a concert hall, with the Willsound you are sitting in front row, while the graphene you are farther away from the musicians

i'm hesitant on saying they are on different league, because the graphene (like the emx, and vido) can hang with the higher priced buds easily. i bet in a blind test people might priced them higher than what they are. but the demun and edimun are indeed different sounding


----------



## redkingjoe

Come to Japan. Just bought some ear pads from some famous brands.


----------



## jogawag

chinmie said:


> soundwise, the closest comparison to the graphene is the Willsound MK2 (they are also priced similarly). the graphene have a more clean and polished sound, but the bass can be wolly on some songs. the MK2 has a faster attack on the bass, more forward mid, and a more "raw" sounding mid and treble. on rock tracks, i prefer the MK2.
> 
> compared to the VX Pro, the vx has less bass, but more resolving and fatter mid. the problem i have with VX is the fitting, it is a little small for my ears


Fitting the VX Pro needs gom ring under foam pad.
It is in VE Monk+ Extra Pack or [https://m.aliexpress.com/store/product//923848_32324321353.html]. But too expensive!


----------



## acap13

chinmie said:


> yup, their soundstage, while both equally good, are rather different on presentation. imagine sitting in a concert hall, with the Willsound you are sitting in front row, while the graphene you are farther away from the musicians
> 
> i'm hesitant on saying they are on different league, because the graphene (like the emx, and vido) can hang with the higher priced buds easily. i bet in a blind test people might priced them higher than what they are. but the demun and edimun are indeed different sounding



Thanks. Much appreciated
Graphene is indeed performing above its price point. This Willsound sounds really interesting. I have bunch of easy peasy earbuds to drive and low rated impedance..Guess this is the time to look for some 300ohm options to finally hook up to my OTL woo amps. If the MK2 Willsound perform very well as the 300ohm version, that will be my next destination.


----------



## chinmie

jogawag said:


> Fitting the VX Pro needs gom ring under foam pad.
> It is in VE Monk+ Extra Pack or [https://m.aliexpress.com/store/product//923848_32324321353.html]. But too expensive!



i did use them, but it still rather loose. using two foams will make it fit great, but then the sound is sacrificed because of it


----------



## jogawag

chinmie said:


> i did use them, but it still rather loose. using two foams will make it fit great, but then the sound is sacrificed because of it


Then if you have VE Extra Pack, you can use fin silicon ring which you must cut off fin. 
1st you set cut off fin silicon ring, 2nd over the ring you set old ring. Then using 1 foams will make it fit.


----------



## chaiyuta

redkingjoe said:


> Come to Japan. Just bought some ear pads from some famous brands.


You forgot buying this famous one. hehe
http://www.e-earphone.jp/shopdetail/003019000008


----------



## damex

i have matte black VE Monk (it does not say monk on shells - instead it says 52ve.cn) that i received as a part of VE Asura 2.0 Balanced 2.5 deal.

is there a way to find out which version is it? i think that this might be original ve monk...


----------



## chinmie

damex said:


> i have matte black VE Monk (it does not say monk on shells - instead it says 52ve.cn) that i received as a part of VE Asura 2.0 Balanced 2.5 deal.
> 
> is there a way to find out which version is it? i think that this might be original ve monk...



it's the old monk


----------



## thelonius97

seanc6441 said:


> NickHCK is out of stock unfortunately, where else sells the same graphene as NickHCK?


I see 998 units available in each color.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 14, 2017)

thelonius97 said:


> I see 998 units available in each color.


tried ordering and it says issue with my order then out of stock. Jim Nicehck says he isn't sure if he is getting then back in.


----------



## seanc6441

Right well I went ahead and ordered the clear graphenes from AK Audio Store on aliexpress (second in graphene search results. It appears to be the same earbud as Nicehck version. Although it's €5 cheaper...

I'll give it a chance anyway and hope for the best. Maybe Nicehck can demand higher price due to popularity and reputation of his store, I don't know.


----------



## jogawag

seanc6441 said:


> Right well I went ahead and ordered the clear graphenes from AK Audio Store on aliexpress (second in graphene search results. It appears to be the same earbud as Nicehck version. Although it's €5 cheaper...
> 
> I'll give it a chance anyway and hope for the best. Maybe Nicehck can demand higher price due to popularity and reputation of his store, I don't know.


The information that HCK's Graphen MX760 is the same as AK Audio(and also other stores?)'s is very important!


----------



## acap13

I believe more and more graphene mx760 of different version are flooding recently. There all not the same as the NiceHCK Graphene MX760 IMO.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 14, 2017)

jogawag said:


> The information that HCK's Graphen MX760 is the same as AK Audio(and also other stores?)'s is very important!


Well I won't know unless I get my hands on nicehck pair also^^

This version looks the next best to nicehck. I mean they literally look the same on the outside whereas other varients have different cables and jacks.

The drivers we just cannot be sure about though unfortunately! The version i bought still got good ratings 4.8 vs 5, with a difference so little it's not clear if it's the same earbud or not.


----------



## jogawag

BTW, I wanted to buy SVARA-L at NiceHCK.
So REAL abnormal conversations on web started at  negotiation of the trade.

He said that "SVARA-L is metal earphone，so it happens easily that electric leak.".
 Certainly it seemed such buyer's claimes were many times, because he said "This is the reason of not to be able to discount this product much.".
 And when I sayed that I want 30Ω version, he said also that "You can not select SVARA-L's impedance(30Ω or 90 Ω) .".
 And  he said last "I hope you can understand，Sincere apologies!".

Although he was very honest to me, I gave up to buy SVARA-L from NiceHCK at last.


----------



## theoutsider (Oct 14, 2017)

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/koss-kde-250-ear-clips

KOSS KDE250 is currently on Massdrop


----------



## BloodyPenguin

The *DQSM Z&W420 *Earbud:

www.aliexpress.com/item/2017-New-DQSM-Z-W420-Earbud-In-Ear-Earphone-Flat-Head-Plug-Earplugs-Headset-HIFI-Earphone/32831073020.html

Bling, in either silver or gold. I went for the gold.

I was not sure what to expect before the DQSM Z&W420 arrived. I can tell you I was not under the impression they would be this good. 

First, the build quality is very nice. The gold paint is flawless and looks lovely in person. The cable is satisfying in the hand, though can tangle a bit and there is a touch of microphonics. The 3.5mm plug is quite superb with its materials and premium weight. 

Sound signature is ever so slightly V shaped. Mids still hold their value and vocals are carefully composed. Lows are present and accurate, with equal amounts of mid and sub bass. Highs are detailed and borderline bright at times. Soundstage is wide, yet controlled. I would say the overall sound playback is between fun and analytical. 

A standout track was Depeche Mode's, "Enjoy The Silence". Dave Gahan's vocals were portrayed with a careful ease and smoothness, while the bass was perfectly balanced with more than sufficient structure in the highs to tie it all together.

Over all, the DQSM Z&W420 impressed me. It is not just bling, but a valuable earbud.


_- As always, all photos were taken by me - _



























--


----------



## snip3r77

BloodyPenguin said:


> The *DQSM Z&W420 *Earbud:
> 
> www.aliexpress.com/item/2017-New-DQSM-Z-W420-Earbud-In-Ear-Earphone-Flat-Head-Plug-Earplugs-Headset-HIFI-Earphone/32831073020.html
> 
> ...


Do you have graphenes to compare ?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Time for bed....  *Benjie S5* and* FENGRU ZT X1*:











--


----------



## darkrude (Oct 15, 2017)

Narayan23 said:


> Hi guys, I need a bit of advice, I received my Graphenes from NICEHCK but I´m having some doubts, they sound very good but I have to turn the volume up a lot more than with my other earbuds which I find strange since these sould be easier to move from the specs? I also like to crank the volume up high now and then, and when I do this the left earbud emits  screeching / crackling noises which is a first for me. Have any other Graphene owners expereinced this? TIA.


Had same "cracking on lows" problem on eb200, also was asked to prove it. I downloaded frequency generator for android, found the frequency and volume level, when one earbud is ok, and second is cracking and just recorded video - by closing holes on one earbud and then another, and the difference was there.

PS Jim solved the problem for me after this.


----------



## Narayan23

Thanks darkrude, I emailed Jim again and he asked me if I would like a new unit and that he´d get back to me on Monday, of course I said yes so fingers crossed


----------



## thelonius97

Narayan23 said:


> Thanks darkrude, I emailed Jim again and he asked me if I would like a new unit and that he´d get back to me on Monday, of course I said yes so fingers crossed


Does that mean you have to send the old one back?


----------



## j4100

After splashing cash on IEMs, I have finally decided they are not for me, as I cannot get large enough tips to keep them in my ears, plus I don't really like the feel. So it's back to earbuds. I bought some Monks but really need something better. I was reading up on the Ty Hi-Z series, in particular, the 650, but also the Shozy BK. Is there anything else I should consider? I'll point out that I really don't want to be spending a lot on amplification. I do have a FiiO A3 though and the source is the FiiO X5ii.


----------



## thelonius97 (Oct 15, 2017)

j4100 said:


> After splashing cash on IEMs, I have finally decided they are not for me, as I cannot get large enough tips to keep them in my ears, plus I don't really like the feel. So it's back to earbuds.


Story of my life. I'm currently in the "maybe if I tried another iem..." phase.


----------



## Danneq (Oct 15, 2017)

j4100 said:


> After splashing cash on IEMs, I have finally decided they are not for me, as I cannot get large enough tips to keep them in my ears, plus I don't really like the feel. So it's back to earbuds. I bought some Monks but really need something better. I was reading up on the Ty Hi-Z series, in particular, the 650, but also the Shozy BK. Is there anything else I should consider? I'll point out that I really don't want to be spending a lot on amplification. I do have a FiiO A3 though and the source is the FiiO X5ii.



What's your preferred sound signature? A more analytical sound? A bit more neutral? Bassy sound (sort of difficult with earbuds).

Shozy Stardust/BK is really good with sweet mids and detailed treble. Bass is tight and has got good texture and decent depth. Not really bassy earbuds but they are not really lacking in bass either.

Perhaps Rose Masya can be another low impedance recommendation (I haven't heard those). Or CampFred 2 from tiny Indonesian earbud maker Cypherus (I just received my pair and they are really good). A bit like Shozy Stardust but deeper sub bass.

I have never bought a pair of IEMs, but I've gotten a few together with MP3 players that I've bought. It's always been earbuds for me, though. A few years ago the earbud world was pretty much dead and not many Head fiers cared about them, but the last 2-3 years has brought an earbud renaissance from mainly Chinese makers but also small Thai and Indonesian companies.


----------



## waynes world

j4100 said:


> After splashing cash on IEMs, I have finally decided they are not for me, as I cannot get large enough tips to keep them in my ears, plus I don't really like the feel. So it's back to earbuds. I bought some Monks but really need something better. I was reading up on the Ty Hi-Z series, in particular, the 650, but also the Shozy BK. Is there anything else I should consider? I'll point out that I really don't want to be spending a lot on amplification. I do have a FiiO A3 though and the source is the FiiO X5ii.



Consider the Graphenes for <$30. Quite a nice upgrade to the Monk+'s imo. And this reviewer compares them favorably to the Shozy BK:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-diy-graphene.22565/reviews


----------



## waynes world

Danneq said:


> I have never bought a pair of IEMs, but I've gotten a few together with MP3 players that I've bought. It's always been earbuds for me, though. A few years ago the earbud world was pretty mcuh dead and not many Head fiers cared about them, but the last 2-3 years has brought an earbud renaissance from mainly Chinese makers but also small Thai and Indonesian companies.



I was on the IEM crazy train for a few years. Ultimately not for me: flaired up tinnitus, made my ears uncomfortable, and I didn't like the idea of the ears not being able to breath at all. Thanks to VE (and their Zens and Monks etc), earbuds were discovered, and now it's "Buds FTW!".


----------



## fairx

Narayan23 said:


> Thanks darkrude, I emailed Jim again and he asked me if I would like a new unit and that he´d get back to me on Monday, of course I said yes so fingers crossed





thelonius97 said:


> Does that mean you have to send the old one back?


I would like to know this as well. How's the return process?

I have eb200 that cracking a little on deep bass but didn't really bother me. 

Do keep update. Just want to prepare for future reference.


----------



## damex

is there a good bassy (prefer V shaped signature) earbuds? 

like beyerdynamic in world of full size cans.


----------



## j4100

Danneq said:


> What's your preferred sound signature?



I guess I would just prefer the music to sound the way the artist intended. I generally listen to psychedelic rock, drone, experimental and a bit of doom and stoner. 

I don't mind getting a better amp than the A3 if I need to, but when I was looking into the VE Zen, I was put off by the "Get the black edition" stuff. I don't want to spend $400 on ear buds, only to have to spend nearly same again on an amp.


----------



## damex

j4100 said:


> I guess I would just prefer the music to sound the way the artist intended. I generally listen to psychedelic rock, drone, experimental and a bit of doom and stoner.
> 
> I don't mind getting a better amp than the A3 if I need to, but when I was looking into the VE Zen, I was put off by the "Get the black edition" stuff. I don't want to spend $400 on ear buds, only to have to spend nearly same again on an amp.


standard ve zen is a good earbuds. no need to pay for black/white editions if you don't want to


----------



## Danneq (Oct 15, 2017)

It you want to go for TOTL (low impedance) earbuds, Shozy Stardust (around $165) or Cypherus CampFred2 ($199 excluding shipping from Indonesia) would be a good bet.

You could always check out the lower price brackets first like the recommended DIY MX760 Graphene earbud. Or (NiceNHK) DIY PK2 (similar to Shozy Stardust). There's a lot of great sub $100 earbuds, but fortunately the best earbuds available usually cost around $150-200. Coming from IEMs that must feel like mid tier prices...

Edit: I would personally not recommend VE Zen 2 as it adds coloring to the music. Zen 2 is very warm sounding. It works with some music but it's not good if you aim for a more neutral sound...


----------



## thelonius97

j4100 said:


> I guess I would just prefer the music to sound the way the artist intended. I generally listen to psychedelic rock, drone, experimental and a bit of doom and stoner.
> 
> I don't mind getting a better amp than the A3 if I need to, but when I was looking into the VE Zen, I was put off by the "Get the black edition" stuff. I don't want to spend $400 on ear buds, only to have to spend nearly same again on an amp.


Yeah, I don't think you should start off that high. Go in incremental steps of price.
I set up a survey recently, and here are the results- https://goo.gl/gt1THD
Don't take the ratings too seriously though.


----------



## waynes world

j4100 said:


> I guess I would just prefer the music to sound the way the artist intended. I generally listen to psychedelic rock, drone, experimental and a bit of doom and stoner.
> 
> I don't mind getting a better amp than the A3 if I need to, but when I was looking into the VE Zen, I was put off by the "Get the black edition" stuff. I don't want to spend $400 on ear buds, only to have to spend nearly same again on an amp.





thelonius97 said:


> Yeah, I don't think you should start off that high. Go in incremental steps of price.
> I set up a survey recently, and here are the results- https://goo.gl/gt1THD
> Don't take the ratings too seriously though.



I agree with thelonius97. Sure, if you are wanting to go for the jump, go TOTL bud now (I only have experience with the VE Zens 1&2, and they are great btw). Or else get for example the wonderful Graphenes for a fraction of the price (which also don't require a powerful amp to sound great), and then do the TOTL upgrade later if still desired.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 15, 2017)

BloodyPenguin said:


> The *DQSM Z&W420 *Earbud:
> 
> www.aliexpress.com/item/2017-New-DQSM-Z-W420-Earbud-In-Ear-Earphone-Flat-Head-Plug-Earplugs-Headset-HIFI-Earphone/32831073020.html
> 
> ...



Very strange.  Those look exactly like my **** Z&W.  I went for the gold as well.  Blends nicely with skin tones when worn.  I am not usually a blingy person but I like these. I love how the shell matches the cable color.  My only problem is the fit.  These, my Monks and my Boarseman MX98 all have the same shell and it sits in my ear as though it is about to fall off a ledge... sort of.   So, I have been collectlng a small assortment of buds with smaller better fitting shells (for me),  I have finished collecting and now it is time to just enjoy them all.  I do wish these fit me better.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...lgo_pvid=16641a06-06e9-441e-bec9-dce858e19953

The price is also the same and the way you describe the sound seems like what I heard as well... I am just not very good at describing sound. I wonder what the difference is, if any.  Different drivers maybe?  Only two shops on ali have this one listed and one of those is the shop we are not allowed to name.  The link above is from the other one but they say they are out of the gold.  I would call it more of a copper color.  It is not a yellow gold at all.

Now do I listen to my music with these tonight or do I listen with the buds that arrived yesterday and have been burning in.... hmmmm....


----------



## Saoshyant

As much as I hear the graphenes suggested, I should have bought them by now for my collection.  I think I remember OOS talk, so is there a shop with stock still?


----------



## jogawag (Oct 15, 2017)

damex said:


> is there a good bassy (prefer V shaped signature) earbuds?
> 
> like beyerdynamic in world of full size cans.


Though I do not know much about beyerdynamic, I recommend you "TY (Hi-Z) HP-150s" as earbuds which has bassy V shaped signature from my less number collection of earbuds.

Edit:
if you like balanced version, you can choice it.


----------



## Saoshyant

jogawag said:


> Though I do not know much about beyerdynamic, I recommend you "TY (Hi-Z) HP-150s" as earbuds which has bassy V shaped signature from my less number collection of earbuds.



A cheaper suggestion than 150S would start with Vido, then after that assuming the tuning is similar the Svara-L, perhaps the Edimun V3 Rhodium for a somewhat more balanced sound, followed by Zen 1 if you can find it and don't mind used.


----------



## HungryPanda

The seahf awk-f32t is a great liitle earbud


----------



## basketballTaco

Hey guys, I'm wondering if anyone can compare masya to stardust? I enjoy masya a lot. I would buy stardust, but only if it has same or better soundstage and a little more bass.


----------



## euge (Oct 15, 2017)

basketballTaco said:


> Hey guys, I'm wondering if anyone can compare masya to stardust? I enjoy masya a lot. I would buy stardust, but only if it has same or better soundstage and a little more bass.



Masya has 2x the soundstage of bk, but the bk has much nicer bass and fuller sounding. I like them both, use the bk more since its more laid back.

Here's a review of masya with bk mentioned as comparison in parts
http://theheadphonelist.com/rose-masya-review-finesse/2/


----------



## seanc6441

I bought the Masya but I'm not pretty sure it's the Stardust I wanted all along. Someone above said it's like DIY PK2, but top class? That's what I want!

Masya is lovely but it's just not a full sounding earbud for TOTL. It's crystal clear, slightly bright and has great soundstage and separation.

But it lacks fullness and it's not the mostly sparkly sound. Leaning more towards analytical high end.

I'll keep it and maybe save up for stardust. Having both would complete my collection.


----------



## seanc6441

seanc6441 said:


> I bought the Masya but I'm not pretty sure it's the Stardust I wanted all along. Someone above said it's like DIY PK2, but top class? That's what I want!
> 
> Masya is lovely but it's just not a full sounding earbud for TOTL. It's crystal clear, slightly bright and has great soundstage and separation.
> 
> ...



Just to elaborate, the masya isn't thin sounding especially once burned in. It's just not thick full sounding like I wanted for some tracks. Some prefer bright and leaner clarity driven sound. I prefer fuller slightly warmer and sparkly sound.


----------



## acap13 (Oct 16, 2017)

Is anyone here who have both HCK Graphene and Edimun V3 Rhodium would giving out some comparison ? I have a great offer on Edimun V3 but currently have Graphene on my possesion. Is it worth a shot or better yet, an upgrade?


----------



## j4100

That Moondrop Liebesleid looks great. How heavy is that in the ear?


----------



## calico88

got the graphene mx760 aweek ago, burned.
for me to much bass, wonder how to reduce this by tuning ?
any link how to tuning this earbud tips ?


----------



## acap13

calico88 said:


> got the graphene mx760 aweek ago, burned.
> for me to much bass, wonder how to reduce this by tuning ?
> any link how to tuning this earbud tips ?



Have you tried the Monk+ thin foams on it? Tame a bit on the bass and increase other attributes by quite a margin in my book.


----------



## jogawag

acap13 said:


> Have you tried the Monk+ thin foams on it? Tame a bit on the bass and increase other attributes by quite a margin in my book.


I am thinking the same way. I just want to write like that way.


----------



## calico88

will try that


----------



## jogawag

j4100 said:


> That Moondrop Liebesleid looks great. How heavy is that in the ear?


I have the Liebesleid. And I think it is difficult to use runing with this.


----------



## theoutsider (Oct 16, 2017)

take this test to find out if you have TOTL ears.


----------



## acap13

jogawag said:


> I am thinking the same way. I just want to write like that way.



Anticipated..lol


----------



## basketballTaco

euge said:


> Masya has 2x the soundstage of bk, but the bk has much nicer bass and fuller sounding. I like them both, use the bk more since its more laid back.
> 
> Here's a review of masya with bk mentioned as comparison in parts
> http://theheadphonelist.com/rose-masya-review-finesse/2/


That's perfect, thank you. I will just continue to enjoy the masya then it seems.


----------



## jogawag

calico88 said:


> got the graphene mx760 aweek ago, burned.
> for me to much bass, wonder how to reduce this by tuning ?
> any link how to tuning this earbud tips ?



You may understand by watching this graph which is *slappypete's 2017/06/13.

 *


----------



## euge

basketballTaco said:


> That's perfect, thank you. I will just continue to enjoy the masya then it seems.



I think you're looking at the Moondrop Liebesleid for the upgrade to Masya's soundstage and bass, I was eyeing that but couldn't get my self to pull the trigger for $265, the build looks excellent but fit might not be great

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1415#post-13573941


----------



## chinmie

acap13 said:


> Is anyone here who have both HCK Graphene and Edimun V3 Rhodium would giving out some comparison ? I have a great offer on Edimun V3 but currently have Graphene on my possesion. Is it worth a shot or better yet, an upgrade?



i have both. I'm using ve thin foams on the edimun (with full foams, the bass is too boomy) and full foams on the graphene (with ve foams, the treble is too brittle). 

the graphene is more v shaped, more emphasis on low bass, recessed mids, and clear treble. the edimun doesn't reach deep bass, but have good amount of mid bass, mids more forward, and sparkly treble. the edimun sounded more natural to me, while the graphene is more cleanly polished sound. if you have the fund, I'd say go for it,get the edimun. i can't say it's an upgrade because the graphene sound is unique to my ears, and rather different from the edimun


----------



## calico88

is this because of the cable makes graphene more bass ?


----------



## acap13 (Oct 16, 2017)

chinmie said:


> i have both. I'm using ve thin foams on the edimun (with full foams, the bass is too boomy) and full foams on the graphene (with ve foams, the treble is too brittle).
> 
> the graphene is more v shaped, more emphasis on low bass, recessed mids, and clear treble. the edimun doesn't reach deep bass, but have good amount of mid bass, mids more forward, and sparkly treble. the edimun sounded more natural to me, while the graphene is more cleanly polished sound. if you have the fund, I'd say go for it,get the edimun. i can't say it's an upgrade because the graphene sound is unique to my ears, and rather different from the edimun



Hey @chinmie ,
Thanks for the great comparison. I thought many people say Edimun is quite V shaped sounding. Now if you say Graphene is more V shaped of the two, then I guess I would really like the Edimun. I can agree with you on the Graphene is a unique sounding earbud. The presentation is more like a speaker to my ears, just without the crazy depth, soundstage and heavy and realistic nuance on each details on decent stereo setup. It reminds me a bit like my brother Sony Z1R in black background and soundstage wise.


----------



## chinmie

acap13 said:


> Hey @chinmie ,
> Thanks for the great comparison. I thought many people say Edimun is quite V shaped sounding. Now if you say Graphene is more V shaped of the two, then I guess I would really like the Edimun. I can agree with you on the Graphene is a unique sounding earbud. The presentation is more like a speaker to my ears, just without the crazy depth, soundstage and heavy and realistic nuance on each details on decent stereo setup. It reminds me a bit like my brother Sony Z1R in black background and soundstage wise.



the edimun does fall in the v shaped sounding buds category, like the graphene, but it has a little bit more forward mid than the graphene. also take account of the different foam between them on my review. the newer generation buds like the graphene excel on really good bass to sub bass that sometimes it can rival IEMs. another bass heavy buds that i enjoy using is the Svara L (especially for watching movies) and Willsound MK2 (more natural sounding than the graphene)


----------



## Saoshyant

@chinmie As I don't remember much of the graphene discussion, is there a particularly recommended link for them?  I think I broke down and need to try this one out even though I have way too many earbuds as it is.  It just sounds way too promising.


----------



## snip3r77 (Oct 16, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> I bought the Masya but I'm not pretty sure it's the Stardust I wanted all along. Someone above said it's like DIY PK2, but top class? That's what I want!
> 
> Masya is lovely but it's just not a full sounding earbud for TOTL. It's crystal clear, slightly bright and has great soundstage and separation.
> 
> ...


I read graphenes are pretty close to Shozy BK



jogawag said:


> I have the Liebesleid. And I think it is difficult to use runing with this.


if one would want to go ToTL sound with mid fi price is it possible ? Any suggestion . Looking for good bass and soundstage


----------



## chinmie

Saoshyant said:


> @chinmie As I don't remember much of the graphene discussion, is there a particularly recommended link for them?  I think I broke down and need to try this one out even though I have way too many earbuds as it is.  It just sounds way too promising.



the one that i have is the nicehck diy mx760 version (the transparent one), but i bought it locally from my fellow forum member. from what he told me, different versions of mx760 graphene from different seller in aliexpress sound a little different to each other (he have compared and sold a couple of different versions)


----------



## acap13

chinmie said:


> the edimun does fall in the v shaped sounding buds category, like the graphene, but it has a little bit more forward mid than the graphene. also take account of the different foam between them on my review. the newer generation buds like the graphene excel on really good bass to sub bass that sometimes it can rival IEMs. another bass heavy buds that i enjoy using is the Svara L (especially for watching movies) and Willsound MK2 (more natural sounding than the graphene)



What do you particularly find in other offerings as being more natural than Graphene? From my extended listening, its quite natural to my ears. I mean most instruments i heard have proper nuance to it. Microdynamics and macrodynamics are the one play major roles. Hope to hear from you on this yeah


----------



## chinmie

acap13 said:


> What do you particularly find in other offerings as being more natural than Graphene? From my extended listening, its quite natural to my ears. I mean most instruments i heard have proper nuance to it. Microdynamics and macrodynamics are the one play major roles. Hope to hear from you on this yeah


the graphene sounds more polished (in a good way), like the song went through another mastering process and put more smooth sound to it, while the willsound is more raw in presentation (again, in a good way). neither is better than the other, just different flavour to the sound


----------



## acap13

chinmie said:


> the graphene sounds more polished (in a good way), like the song went through another mastering process and put more smooth sound to it, while the willsound is more raw in presentation (again, in a good way). neither is better than the other, just different flavour to the sound



Great to know. I agree that it has kind of polished sound. Probably a little bit of it to make sound of string a bit smoother and a lil bit less raw and textured. Still reasonably textured for my taste though.

BTW, I'm sorry if I ask too much question, if I crave bit more bass than the Graphene could deliver, would Edimun V3 satisfies my need?


----------



## chinmie (Oct 16, 2017)

acap13 said:


> Great to know. I agree that it has kind of polished sound. Probably a little bit of it to make sound of string a bit smoother and a lil bit less raw and textured. Still reasonably textured for my taste though.
> 
> BTW, I'm sorry if I ask too much question, if I crave bit more bass than the Graphene could deliver, would Edimun V3 satisfies my need?



nope, the graphene's bass is enormous in earbuds standard. in my collection the ones that comparable in bass are the vidos, willsound mk2, and the svara L.
have you tried the svara?


----------



## PacoBdn (Oct 16, 2017)

chinmie said:


> nope, the graphene's bass is enormous in earbuds standard. in my collection the ones that comparable in bass are the vidos, willsound mk2, and the svara L.
> have you tried the svara?



Which Svara L, 32 or 115 Ohms?

Actually only is possible to buy 32 Ohms?


Thx


----------



## jogawag (Oct 16, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> if one would want to go ToTL sound with mid fi price is it possible ? Any suggestion . Looking for good bass and soundstage



I recommend "Moondrop VX Pro" and "Creative Aurvana Air".

"Moondrop VX Pro" has Ornate treble-medium and deep bass.
"Creative Aurvana Air" without hook has Clear 3D sound.

Edit:
Adding below.
"TY Hi-Z HP-150s" has Pretty clear high tone + deep bass.


----------



## chinmie (Oct 16, 2017)

PacoBdn said:


> Which Svara L, 32 or 115 Ohms?
> 
> Actually only is possible to buy 32 Ohms?
> 
> ...



mine is the 115 ohm i believe, because it takes a hell lot more volume to drive than my other 32ohm buds


----------



## acap13

chinmie said:


> nope, the graphene's bass is enormous in earbuds standard. in my collection the ones that comparable in bass are the vidos, willsound mk2, and the svara L.
> have you tried the svara?



Nope. Heard a lot people spelled positive things about them. Guess I  would just give the Graphene a try with stock full foam to increase the bass if they are comparable with Svara L. Plus, I can get Edimun with price more cheaper than Svara L.


----------



## snip3r77

jogawag said:


> I recommend "Moondrop VX Pro" and "Creative Aurvana Air".
> 
> "Moondrop VX Pro" has Ornate treble-medium and deep bass.
> "Creative Aurvana Air" without hook has Clear 3D sound.



What if I have graphenes on hand? Will it still be a significant upgrade?


----------



## jogawag

snip3r77 said:


> What if I have graphenes on hand? Will it still be a significant upgrade?


Sorry, I don't have graphenes earbuds yet, I just have bought them and now to be coming to me.
So, I don't know yet.


----------



## snip3r77

jogawag said:


> Sorry, I don't have graphenes earbuds yet, I just have bought them and now to be coming to me.
> So, I don't know yet.



Ok I'd ping you when it has arrive  Cheers


----------



## chinmie

acap13 said:


> Nope. Heard a lot people spelled positive things about them. Guess I  would just give the Graphene a try with stock full foam to increase the bass if they are comparable with Svara L. Plus, I can get Edimun with price more cheaper than Svara L.



what foams are you using with the graphenes? i can only use them with full foams. The svara's bass is bigger than the graphenes with full foams


----------



## jogawag (Oct 17, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> Ok I'd ping you when it has arrive  Cheers


I think Mr. *golov17* have it already.
Why do not you ask him about Graphenes now?


----------



## kamal007

snip3r77 said:


> I read graphenes are pretty close to Shozy BK
> 
> 
> if one would want to go ToTL sound with mid fi price is it possible ? Any suggestion . Looking for good bass and soundstage



I dont think the graphenes are close to Shozy BK. Ive them both and the BK is miles better.


----------



## chinmie

snip3r77 said:


> What if I have graphenes on hand? Will it still be a significant upgrade?



graphenes and the vx pro? i personally like the graphenes more


----------



## seanc6441

kamal007 said:


> I dont think the graphenes are close to Shozy BK. Ive them both and the BK is miles better.


Odd question but could you compare both through a mobile source? I'd love to know if there's enough of a difference for me to buy the shozy stardust if I'm going to be using it through an iphone 6s mostly.


----------



## kamal007

seanc6441 said:


> Odd question but could you compare both through a mobile source? I'd love to know if there's enough of a difference for me to buy the shozy stardust if I'm going to be using it through an iphone 6s mostly.



Ill try later but Im not using an Iphone. Ill have a listen off my Samsung S8+


----------



## acap13

chinmie said:


> what foams are you using with the graphenes? i can only use them with full foams. The svara's bass is bigger than the graphenes with full foams



I find Graphene is more crispier, textured and image more better with Monk+ thin foam. So I used them only. Will give a try with stock full foam


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> nope, the graphene's bass is enormous in earbuds standard. in my collection the ones that comparable in bass are the vidos, willsound mk2, and the svara L.
> have you tried the svara?



But compared to the vidos, I find the bass of the graphenes much cleaner, detailed and controlled.



chinmie said:


> what foams are you using with the graphenes? i can only use them with full foams. The svara's bass is bigger than the graphenes with full foams



I'll have to try full foams on them (so far I have been enjoying the donut foams on them)


----------



## jogawag (Jun 29, 2018)

I have received NiceHCK Panda PK2S.
Now, I will compare four of taobao Cresyn DIY Docomo PK2(CPK2) / NiceHCK DIY MX500 PK2(MPK2) / NiceHCK Panda PK2S(PK2S) / Yuin PK3(PK3).

Bass: PK2S>CPK2>MPK2>PK3
Mid: PK2S=MPK2=CPK2=PK3
Treble: PK2S=MPK2>CPK2>PK3
Cost Performance: CPK2>=MPK2>PK2S>PK3 (CPK2 is only $5.)

If I need to choose one , I would choose the PK2S, because of stronger bass(not need dounuts) and smooth cable and pretty panda design.

taobao Cresyn DIY Docomo PK2(CPK2) / NiceHCK DIY MX500 PK2(MPK2) / NiceHCK Panda  PK2S(PK2S) / Yuin PK3(PK3)



Edit:
I used review pattern of Mr. *CharlesRievone*.


----------



## snip3r77

@jogawag will wait for your graphene comparison also


----------



## jogawag

snip3r77 said:


> @jogawag will wait for your graphene comparison also


Roger!


----------



## eaglesgift

seanc6441 said:


> tried ordering and it says issue with my order then out of stock. Jim Nicehck says he isn't sure if he is getting then back in.


I ordered the clear ones last night (2017 New NICEHCK DIY Graphene) and they are marked as shipped today.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 17, 2017)

eaglesgift said:


> I ordered the clear ones last night (2017 New NICEHCK DIY Graphene) and they are marked as shipped today.


Well that's odd... I attepmted to order clear or black version and I could add them to the basket, but there was some weird glitch and when I tried to buy it it said out of stock. I'm using the aliexpress app on iphone.

"This product is sold out or the seller discontinued selling this product."

Is highlighted under the product in my basket. Yet you could buy it? Interesting.


----------



## seanc6441

seanc6441 said:


> Well that's odd... I attepmted to order clear or black version and I could add them to the basket, but there was some weird glitch and when I tried to buy it it said out of stock. I'm using the aliexpress app on iphone.
> 
> "This product is sold out or the seller discontinued selling this product."
> 
> Is highlighted under the product in my basket. Yet you could buy it? Interesting.


Ok there's something really weird going on here. If I put anything from NiceHCK Store in my basket it says out of stock. If I change account and do the same I can order it.


----------



## eaglesgift

seanc6441 said:


> Well that's odd... I attepmted to order clear or black version and I could add them to the basket, but there was some weird glitch and when I tried to buy it it said out of stock. I'm using the aliexpress app on iphone.
> 
> "This product is sold out or the seller discontinued selling this product."
> 
> Is highlighted under the product in my basket. Yet you could buy it? Interesting.


Yes and I blame you for making me spend more money. I only tried it because you said it wouldn't work! 

I accessed the site using Chrome browser, not the iOS app but that doesn't explain why you were told that they were out of stock by the store?


----------



## eaglesgift

seanc6441 said:


> Ok there's something really weird going on here. If I put anything from NiceHCK Store in my basket it says out of stock. If I change account and do the same I can order it.


The AliExpress site is a bit strange for me in some respects. I've never had the problem you're experiencing but it often corrects my search terms and says it cannot find anything for the changed word.For instance, when I searched for Edimun V3 Rhodium, it came back with zero results for Edison V3 Rhodium, which is quite annoying.


----------



## seanc6441

eaglesgift said:


> The AliExpress site is a bit strange for me in some respects. I've never had the problem you're experiencing but it often corrects my search terms and says it cannot find anything for the changed word.For instance, when I searched for Edimun V3 Rhodium, it came back with zero results for Edison V3 Rhodium, which is quite annoying.


I can order it from another account. However my issue is now I ordered graphene from AK audio store so I'm not going to order both now... Hope it's the same.

Just kind of annoying. I contacted Jim incase it was something on his end.


----------



## thelonius97

eaglesgift said:


> For instance, when I searched for Edimun V3 Rhodium, it came back with zero results for Edison V3 Rhodium, which is quite annoying.


Yeah, the search function is weird. Usually searching on Google for the product name along with the word "AliExpress" works better.


----------



## Wil (Oct 17, 2017)

Yincrow x6 in the house.

I’m seriously impressed by these babies.
The very fact that they cost only 12 bucks is the icing on the cake.

Initial impressions: 

 A very balanced sound with warm, solid bass with slam. Mids are alittle recessed but still fantastic for vocals. I'm surprised by the details that i'm getting in the treble region - they sound very good for jazz (hi hats have ample air and space).  Soundstage is large, extending pass my ears. 

I think the thing about them is that they have a very coherent sound. Nothing really bleeds into each other. 

I dare say i prefer it over my Zen 2.0s, which tend to sound alittle too bloated and ponderous for my taste. 

* Am using the supplied thin donuts. The thick foams that come with it has too over-whelming a bass for my tastes but YMMW. 

* My main cans are the Stax L700 - i dare say these little powerhouses being driven by an ibasso D-zero Mk2 playing Spotify Extreme gives me the same measure of musical pleasure without the fuss of setting up my main setup. Great for just kicking back and randomly surfing the net while listening to obscure stuff on Spotify. 

Man, i'm hooked - looking at other buds as we speak!


----------



## thelonius97

seanc6441 said:


> I ordered graphene from AK audio store so I'm not going to order both now... Hope it's the same.


When you said the NiceHCK ones were out of stock, I contact A K and they said, "Hello friend,we don't know much about HCK earphone,but we sell really good earphones.Worth try." Not very helpful, I guess.
I did manage to order the HCK ones (with some help from @jogawag).


----------



## seanc6441

Well I talked to jim and he said it was a system bug, tried again now and it seemed to work. Decided to buy nicehck version too. So i'll be able to tell you guys if there's a SQ difference between AK and Nickhck versions.

Costly way to go about it but I have someone who asked me to buy an earbud for them so I will have a use for both lol


----------



## theoutsider

Wil said:


> Yincrow x6 in the house.
> 
> Man, i'm hooked - looking at other buds as we speak!


Maybe Yincrow rw-777 will be the next step up for you.


----------



## jogawag

theoutsider said:


> Maybe Yincrow rw-777 will be the next step up for you.


But on *Earbud Rating Survey* no one has voted for Yincrow rw-777, right?
And also on Earbuds Anonymous no one has voted.


----------



## thelonius97

jogawag said:


> But on *Earbud Rating Survey* no one has voted for Yincrow rw-777, right?
> And also on Earbuds Anonymous no one has voted.


I found this-


ClieOS said:


> RW-777 is the new flagship from YinCrow. The tuning is kind of different from their earlier model, the X6, which has a slightly V-shaped sound that emphasis on dynamic and energy. The RW-777 on the other hand has more of a mature sound - warm and smooth with a pretty good mid-range. If you already own the X6, the RW-777 will compliment it very well. One thing to note is that the housing is a copy from Hifiman's ES100, but made out of metal instead of plastic and surprisingly quite comfortable. As far as SQ goes, it is also well ahead of ES100.


----------



## jogawag

thelonius97 said:


> I found this-


ClieOS pretty much praises it.
Why has not anyone voted?


----------



## theoutsider

jogawag said:


> ClieOS pretty much praises it.
> Why has not anyone voted?





thelonius97 said:


> I found this-


It is probably a hidden gem that escaped the spotlight.


----------



## waynes world

theoutsider said:


> It is probably a hidden gem that escaped the spotlight.



That's all I need - more hidden gems exposed!


----------



## jogawag

theoutsider said:


> It is probably a hidden gem that escaped the spotlight.


To tell the truth, I was recommended from HCK that it is a good Earbuds instead of Svara-L which likely to have electric leak.
But I did not buy it because I have not heard the reputation so much yet...


----------



## theoutsider

waynes world said:


> That's all I need - more hidden gems exposed!


Some earbuds are clearly not getting the attention they deserve.


----------



## theoutsider

jogawag said:


> To tell the truth, I was recommended from HCK that it is a good Earbuds instead of Svara-L which likely to have electric leak.
> But I did not buy it because I have not heard the reputation so much yet...


RW-777 has a full metal housing as well.
A bit stimulation in life can be a good thing for you


----------



## eaglesgift

seanc6441 said:


> Well I talked to jim and he said it was a system bug, tried again now and it seemed to work. Decided to buy nicehck version too. So i'll be able to tell you guys if there's a SQ difference between AK and Nickhck versions.
> 
> Costly way to go about it but I have someone who asked me to buy an earbud for them so I will have a use for both lol


I'm confused now. Didn't you say before that he told you he was out of stock and didn't know if he was going to get any more?


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 17, 2017)

eaglesgift said:


> I'm confused now. Didn't you say before that he told you he was out of stock and didn't know if he was going to get any more?


I asked him "I cannot seem to order Graphene, it says out of stock? Will you be getting it back in stock soon? and he said "he wasn't sure". looking back I think there was a miscommunication and he might have meant he wasn't sure why I couldn't place an order.

When I asked him today he said it was a "system bug" and after trying 5 times this morning to no avail, it finally worked after he said try again. Maybe it was something on his end, maybe I was banned accidentally

Really weird bug though, it wasn't just the graphene, I couldn't order anything from Nicehck! Other stores no issue at all. All good now though. I have two graphene's on the way, I hope I like them


----------



## eaglesgift

seanc6441 said:


> I asked him "I cannot seem to order Graphene, it says out of stock? Will you be getting it back in stock soon? and he said "he wasn't sure". looking back I think there was a miscommunication and he might have meant he wasn't sure why I couldn't place an order.
> 
> When I asked him today he said it was a "system bug" and after trying 5 times this morning to no avail, it finally worked after he said try again. Maybe it was something on his end, maybe I was banned accidentally
> 
> Really weird bug though, it wasn't just the graphene, I couldn't order anything from Nicehck! Other stores no issue at all. All good now though. I have two graphene's on the way, I hope I like them


Yeah, I hope so too. I'd been planning to buy them for a while now and your comments spurred me into action.


----------



## seanc6441

eaglesgift said:


> Yeah, I hope so too. I'd been planning to buy them for a while now and your comments spurred me into action.


Yeah crisis averted, sorry If I rushed anyone saying they were sold out ^^


----------



## theoutsider

seanc6441 said:


> Yeah crisis averted, sorry If I rushed anyone saying they were sold out ^^





eaglesgift said:


> Yeah, I hope so too. I'd been planning to buy them for a while now and your comments spurred me into action.


Keep Calm,
Order New Earbuds and
March On.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Really weird bug though, it wasn't just the graphene, I couldn't order anything from Nicehck! Other stores no issue at all. All good now though. I have two graphene's on the way, I hope I like them



Hmm. When I suggested to Jim that he blacklist you, I was only joking!


----------



## Danneq

I ordered a pair of Yincrow RW-777 together with Graphene and Moondrop Nameless about 1 month ago from NiceNHK. I think it finally has arrived at the post office. Might pick them up later this week...


----------



## seanc6441

Danneq said:


> I ordered a pair of Yincrow RW-777 together with Graphene and Moondrop Nameless about 1 month ago from NiceNHK. I think it finally has arrived at the post office. Might pick them up later this week...


Should be a nice comparison actually. Haven't heard much about the Yincrow.


----------



## RyanM

Wil said:


> Yincrow x6 in the house.
> 
> I’m seriously impressed by these babies.
> The very fact that they cost only 12 bucks is the icing on the cake.
> ...



If you like the X6, you should consider some Vidos. They sound exactly the same and they're 1/3 the price. It's likely the same driver. I'll agree to disagree on their technical proficiency in comparison to the Zen 2, however, they're a lot of fun for sure!


----------



## j4100

Couldn't resist it. Ordered Shozy BK. Now the wait.


----------



## waynes world

Danneq said:


> I ordered a pair of Yincrow RW-777 together with Graphene and Moondrop Nameless about 1 month ago from NiceNHK. I think it finally has arrived at the post office. Might pick them up later this week...



What about "go pick them up now instead and provide your comparisons asap" don't you understand? Joking, but looking forward to them!


----------



## theoutsider

Danneq said:


> I ordered a pair of Yincrow RW-777 together with Graphene and Moondrop Nameless about 1 month ago from NiceNHK. I think it finally has arrived at the post office. Might pick them up later this week...


I'm looking forward to your comparison.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 17, 2017)

theoutsider said:


> I'm looking forward to your comparison.


, and your vote on *Earbud Rating Survey.*


----------



## euge (Oct 17, 2017)

anyone tried any of the DIY earbuds here his cables and plugs seems a lot nicer at least visually, like these


----------



## bonson

j4100 said:


> Couldn't resist it. Ordered Shozy BK. Now the wait.


No regrets possible
They are my favorite among zen2 
Samsara Cygnus and a lot other good earbuds


----------



## Danneq

waynes world said:


> What about "go pick them up now instead and provide your comparisons asap" don't you understand? Joking, but looking forward to them!



Might wait another week to pick them up.  

And then burn in for 100+ hours. I'll get back on the subject in 1-2 months...


----------



## siderak

euge said:


> anyone tried any of the DIY earbuds here his cables and plugs seems a lot nicer at least visually, like these



I have his diy pk2 with mic. Build is excellent. Sound is neutral and very cohesive. A great all rounder imo. No brainer for 20 bucks.


----------



## jogawag

siderak said:


> I have his diy pk2 with mic. Build is excellent. Sound is neutral and very cohesive. A great all rounder imo. No brainer for 20 bucks.


Please vote on *Earbud Rating Survey.*


----------



## theoutsider

Danneq said:


> Might wait another week to pick them up.
> 
> And then burn in for 100+ hours. I'll get back on the subject in 1-2 months...


if you leave your earphones at the post office, they will burn them in for you.


----------



## siderak

Danneq said:


> Might wait another week to pick them up.
> 
> And then burn in for 100+ hours. I'll get back on the subject in 1-2 months...


You're just a tease


----------



## ClintonL

Considering the stardust or ty hi 650, which would be better?


----------



## jogawag

ClintonL said:


> Considering the stardust or ty hi 650, which would be better?


If you have enough powered amp,  ty hi 650 will work well.
Otherwise stardust will work more.


----------



## LetheFB

Has any of you experienced bad fit issues with Rw-777? How do you wear it? I use it with earhooks, replacing it over my ear; but fit still isn't good enough.


----------



## jogawag

LetheFB said:


> Has any of you experienced bad fit issues with Rw-777? How do you wear it? I use it with earhooks, replacing it over my ear; but fit still isn't good enough.


Perhaps *@theoutsider *knows about it.
Please answer the question.


----------



## HungryPanda

Just got my Seahf-AWK-F150C's delivered and wow I like them a lot. Wonderful bass and the soundstage is probably the best I have heard in an earbud


----------



## chinmie

jogawag said:


> If you have enough powered amp,  ty hi 650 will work well.
> Otherwise stardust will work more.



will fiio e17k be enough for the ty 650? i use cayin n3 to e17k combo, and it can drive puresounds ps100-500, but i don't know about the ty 650. also, assuming we have a powerful amp, does the ty 650 performs better than the stardust?


----------



## jogawag

chinmie said:


> will fiio e17k be enough for the ty 650? i use cayin n3 to e17k combo, and it can drive puresounds ps100-500, but i don't know about the ty 650. also, assuming we have a powerful amp, does the ty 650 performs better than the stardust?


To tell the truth, I do not much about ty 650. But it is more cheap than stardust, and I think that 6th earbuds at GREAT rank of ClieOS list would have some performance.


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> Just got my Seahf-AWK-F150C's delivered and wow I like them a lot. Wonderful bass and the soundstage is probably the best I have heard in an earbud



Are you referring to these puppies?

How do they compare to the graphenes? Would they be a nice compliment to them?

Thx!


----------



## HungryPanda

That's the ones, I prefer them as I find them much more dramatic. The most striking is the soundstage it really is good


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> That's the ones, I prefer them as I find them much more dramatic. The most striking is the soundstage it really is good



Thanks. I think I'll have to set you to "ignore" pretty soon lol 

Is that the store that you got them from as well? (I have only been using NiceHCK so far, so I want to be careful)

I don't have any Seahf's. You have a few Seahf's, and there are a lot of different ones out there. Do you rate the F150C's highly out of the ones that you have? Thx again.


----------



## HungryPanda (Oct 18, 2017)

I got mine from Jim NICEHCK. I like the 32 ohm one as it sounds good on my phone and daps, the 64 ohm one is better but needs amped and this 150 ohm one is best of all but does need a bit of juice


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> I got mine from Jim NICEHCK. I like the 32 ohm one as it sounds good on my phone and daps, the 64 ohm one is better but needs amped and this 150 ohm one is best of all but does need a bit of juice



Thanks. I didn't seem them there before, but found them now.

To juice or not to juice, that is the question! They would be fine at my desktop, but not sure with my daps. Right now I have the Xduoo X3 (250mW @ 32Ω load) and the Walnut V2 (approx 100mW), and wanting the Cayin N3 (130mW). Hmm! I think I'll just go for them


----------



## theoutsider (Oct 18, 2017)

waynes world said:


> To juice or not to juice, that is the question!


To pull the trigger*, or to break my finger?
Such dilemma haunts me when I lurk around this forum.


*on another pair of earbuds.


----------



## theoutsider

LetheFB said:


> Has any of you experienced bad fit issues with Rw-777? How do you wear it? I use it with earhooks, replacing it over my ear; but fit still isn't good enough.


RW-777 is supposed to be supremely comfortable for a normal human.
Maybe, just maybe they won't fit Beetlejuice.


----------



## HungryPanda

Just don't say it three times


----------



## theoutsider

HungryPanda said:


> Just don't say it three times


Betelgeuse, Betelgeuse, Betelgeuse...


----------



## euge (Oct 18, 2017)

HungryPanda said:


> That's the ones, I prefer them as I find them much more dramatic. The most striking is the soundstage it really is good



Just ordered one, I'm a sucker for huge soundstage, how does it compare to the masya?

I had to send the right side back to penon for a replacement as there was rattling/vibration, still waiting on them.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 18, 2017)

Masya's have had 35-40 hours burn in now. I'm also using a combination of thin foam (similar to monk) and a heigi donut. This, to me, is the best combination so far. Still waiting for my VE ex pack to make a monk thin and monk thin donut (cut into donut) combo, which I think will be my best bet.

My opinion of them is pretty good. Excellent for some tastes, not so much mine.

- Very pleasing soundstage, imaging and extension. This is the best part about them. Gets close to headphone territory here. Soundstage is big enough for earbud standards, imaging seems pretty accurate, extension is impressive on both ends! 9.5/10

- Quiet bright sounding, but the smoothness of the upper mids makes it a tolerable brightness.

- Sub bass is well controlled. Almost reigned in and not reaching its full power. This is intentional though as to keep the low end clean and completely bloat free. Personally I'd prefer slightly more emphasis on the sub bass for a more impactful bass experience. 8/10

-Mid bass is lightning quick, almost too quick which means it doesn't flow into the lower mids, on the plus side there's absolutely zero congestion. It's over before it begins on some tracks whilst being very powerful at the same time... it's very tightly controlled, holds some impact and just about delivers enough thump on most tracks. 8.5/10

- Mids and upper mids are the strong point of this earbud. Near perfection if you consider neutral-bright sound as a good starting point. So much detailed clarity, smoothness and control in delivering vocals and acoustical instruments. Only downside is it's not quiet as full sounding as I'd like which is the sacrifice made with such clarity and it's neutral and bright sound. 9.5/10

-High's and treble carry on where the mids left off. The whole transition between mids and highs is exceptionally fluid. There's incredible detail and extension here, but it's more analytical in its presentation thus lacking some sparkle. Also whilst being smooth for such a bright earbud, it can occasionally become overly bright on some tracks due to its extended treble so it's not for sensitive ears. Overall almost as high class as the mids. 9/10

Personally I don't feel it's the complete package for my taste. It's lacking the full thick vocals, sparkly highs and some sub bass rumble to be my end game earbud.

Although I can see some people loving what the Masya has to offer. Clarity in a well rounded and neutral-bright sounding earbud.


----------



## HungryPanda (Oct 18, 2017)

euge said:


> Just ordered one, I'm sucker for huge soundstage, how does it compare to the masya?
> 
> I had to send the right side back to penon for a replacement as there was rattling/vibration, still waiting on them.



Sorry  you have to return them, the biggest difference with the Seahf AWK-150C's is the powerful bass, it is awesome and I personally think the soundstage is wider


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Masya's have had 35-40 hours burn in now. I'm also using a combination of thin foam (similar to monk) and a heigi donut. This, to me, is the best combination so far. Still waiting for my VE ex pack to make a monk thin and monk thin donut (cut into donut) combo, which I think will be my best bet.
> 
> My opinion of them is pretty good. Excellent for some tastes, not so much mine.
> 
> ...



Great impressions


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> Sorry  you have to return them, the biggest difference with the Seahf AWK-150C's is the powerful bass, it is awesome and I personally think the soundstage is wider



Stop it


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> Great impressions


Thanks. I can see these performing amazingly on a warmer 'fuller' source than my iphone 6s. Altough my PC is both warmer, fuller and more 'energetic' being a higher power source than my iphone and whilst the masya did sound better through it, it's not night and day differences. Which probably aligns with the opinion that the masya is not very picky about source, thus being a great mobile earbud!

I think the iphone 6s is definitely a more neutral source than most phones. My old windows phone and many android's seem to omit a slightly warmer coloured sound. Which might actually help the masya IMO


----------



## chinmie

jogawag said:


> To tell the truth, I do not much about ty 650. But it is more cheap than stardust, and I think that 6th earbuds at GREAT rank of ClieOS list would have some performance.



will get back to you on that, my Ty 650 should arrive today, I'll make comparisons to my ps100-500 later


----------



## jogawag

chinmie said:


> will get back to you on that, my Ty 650 should arrive today, I'll make comparisons to my ps100-500 later


Comparisons of PureSound PS100-500Ω (10th earbuds at CONTENDER rank of ClieOS list) and TY Hi-Z HP-650 (6th at GREAT rank)!


----------



## snip3r77

jogawag said:


> Comparisons of PureSound PS100-500Ω (10th earbuds at CONTENDER rank of ClieOS list) and TY Hi-Z HP-650 (6th at GREAT rank)!


Where is the list ?


----------



## jogawag

snip3r77 said:


> Where is the list ?


https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wGTZnKX1aP29c1bzs5JWgqSUlPzZqV9p_cw79VfRBpQ/pub


----------



## snip3r77

jogawag said:


> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wGTZnKX1aP29c1bzs5JWgqSUlPzZqV9p_cw79VfRBpQ/pub



Thanks VIdo is not listed


----------



## euge

HungryPanda said:


> Sorry  you have to return them, the biggest difference with the Seahf AWK-150C's is the powerful bass, it is awesome and I personally think the soundstage is wider



Luckily I bought em from penon after reading about rose poor qc. That sounds perfect can't wait to try them on.



seanc6441 said:


> Masya's have had 35-40 hours burn in now. I'm also using a combination of thin foam (similar to monk) and a heigi donut. This, to me, is the best combination so far. Still waiting for my VE ex pack to make a monk thin and monk thin donut (cut into donut) combo, which I think will be my best bet.
> 
> My opinion of them is pretty good. Excellent for some tastes, not so much mine.
> 
> ...



Yea masya can end up sounding a bit thin, but the soundstage and clarity is pretty awesome on certain genre. 
I do end up using the shozy bk a lot more, but kinda miss the masya when I don't have it.


----------



## seanc6441

euge said:


> Luckily I bought em from penon after reading about rose poor qc. That sounds perfect can't wait to try them on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I really want the Shozy BK... Its just hard to justify the price after buying many budget earbuds and the Masya.


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> I really want the Shozy BK... Its just hard to justify the price after buying many budget earbuds and the Masya.


I agree....£125 for Shozy BK is a bit steep....wish I could add them to the collection!


----------



## gazzington

Thanks for whoever recommended seahf for my metal listening. Sound amazing, great bite and deals with aggressive guitars very well. Bargain


----------



## jogawag

gazzington said:


> Thanks for whoever recommended seahf for my metal listening. Sound amazing, great bite and deals with aggressive guitars very well. Bargain


Which Seahf do you like? Please tell us more detail model number.
And please vote on *Earbud Rating Survey.*


----------



## j4100

activatorfly said:


> I agree....£125 for Shozy BK is a bit steep....wish I could add them to the collection!



I got mine the other day on eBay for $145 Which equates to £110. Not a lot of difference, but I could buy something else with the change.

This seller  http://myworld.ebay.com/wsz0304


----------



## jogawag

j4100 said:


> I got mine the other day on eBay for $145 Which equates to £110. Not a lot of difference, but I could buy something else with the change.
> 
> This seller  http://myworld.ebay.com/wsz0304


Congratulations!
And please vote on *Earbud Rating Survey.*


----------



## activatorfly

j4100 said:


> I got mine the other day on eBay for $145 Which equates to £110. Not a lot of difference, but I could buy something else with the change.
> 
> This seller  http://myworld.ebay.com/wsz0304


Thanks! ...do you have the balanced version?


----------



## j4100

jogawag said:


> Congratulations!
> And please vote on *Earbud Rating Survey.*



I also thought I should get a cheaper one, since I like to listen to music before I go to sleep, so ordered a NiceHCK Graphene and the seahf150 

I'll fill in the survey after getting  a listen to them all.


----------



## j4100

activatorfly said:


> Thanks! ...do you have the balanced version?



No, I only have the FiiO X5ii, so no balanced for the moment


----------



## gazzington

I got seahf awk-f64. They are not burned in yet but sounding great for the price.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have to say the Seahf earbuds are fantastic


----------



## thelonius97

HungryPanda said:


> I have to say the Seahf earbuds are fantastic


I've added the Seahf AWK-150C, AWK-64, and the Ourart Ti7 to the survey. Do consider editing your response to include those ratings (click on the survey link and select 'Edit your response'). It might help some people out. Thanks.


----------



## eaglesgift

gazzington said:


> I got seahf awk-f64. They are not burned in yet but sounding great for the price.


I tried to order some on local Lazada site last night and my card was declined because my bank shuts down their systems between 02.30 and 03.30 every night, and now they are out of stock. I'm doubly bummed now I've heard your impressions. I'm thinking of ordering the 150-ohm ones instead, the Seahf AWK-F150C that was mentioned earlier but I'm not sure if these are the right ones: http://www.lazada.co.th/seahf-150-ohm-10840982.html?spm=a2o4m.search.0.0.29fe74aewMmN7b&ff=1

I'm also not sure if a Cayin N3 will have enough power to drive them and even less sure about a Shanling M1 or an iPod Classic....


----------



## gazzington

That's the only reason I didn't get the seahf 150s but if they are really good then I could use them with my chord mojo


----------



## HungryPanda

As I filled in my survey response before quite a few earbuds were added I cannot enter or edit my response


----------



## thelonius97

HungryPanda said:


> As I filled in my survey response before quite a few earbuds were added I cannot enter or edit my response


No, you should be able to as long as you're signed in to the same Google account as you were while filling it out the first time. What do you see when you click on the link in my signature?


----------



## eaglesgift (Oct 19, 2017)

gazzington said:


> That's the only reason I didn't get the seahf 150s but if they are really good then I could use them with my chord mojo


I find the power output specs for DAPs confusing. For example: The Xduoo X3 specs say it has 250mw output and the Cayin N3 says 130mw, but the N3 is 130mw per channel and I'm not sure whether the Xduoo is per channel or in total.
Makes it harder to work out which DAPs can power which phones.


----------



## HungryPanda

I see this:



You've already responded
You can only fill out this form once.

Try contacting the owner of the form if you think this is a mistake.


----------



## jogawag

HungryPanda said:


> As I filled in my survey response before quite a few earbuds were added I cannot enter or edit my response


No. You can enter or edit your response. Please try it.


----------



## HungryPanda

Oh it worked this time when I clicked on edit


----------



## noknok23 (Oct 19, 2017)

Seahf 650 are my first TOTL and until today my favorites. They are quite power hungry though.
here is a really good review I found https://thetechkaiju.com/2017/10/02/bus-ride-impression-650-ohm-earbud-shootout/

I found seahf 150 to be a bit too sharp and forward to my taste but I reckon it sounded marvelous with guitar based sound. It's not for everyone but if you like energetic aggressive fast sound (i.e. metal) Seahf are perhaps one of the best value.

Seahf 650 still have that sound signature but at a much more refined and balanced level which made them excellent all rounder that are slightly wild: v shaped, bit cold, very tight. If puresound ps600 is the good kid with all the grade, soft, well mannered,. the seahf is the bad guy in leather jacket you don't want to meet alone at night.

Seahf are not efficient at all though and to be driven properly they need near desktop power to be at their potential. I still on my way to upgrade amp but I can assume already how good they can be.


----------



## HungryPanda (Oct 19, 2017)

eaglesgift said:


> I tried to order some on local Lazada site last night and my card was declined because my bank shuts down their systems between 02.30 and 03.30 every night, and now they are out of stock. I'm doubly bummed now I've heard your impressions. I'm thinking of ordering the 150-ohm ones instead, the Seahf AWK-F150C that was mentioned earlier but I'm not sure if these are the right ones: http://www.lazada.co.th/seahf-150-ohm-10840982.html?spm=a2o4m.search.0.0.29fe74aewMmN7b&ff=1
> 
> I'm also not sure if a Cayin N3 will have enough power to drive them and even less sure about a Shanling M1 or an iPod Classic....



That is the ones and I can drive them ok from Shanling M1 on high gain around 50 and on my wife's N3 high gain 40-45 but once plugged in to my desktop amp they do gain more body


----------



## 93EXCivic

So opinions, do I buy an Opus #1 DAP or do I buy a Cayin N3 and Shozy BKs?

I want a DAP for work. My biggest desire is separate my music from my phone. I recently got Campfred2s which I absolutely love for about 2 hours. Then I start to realize that MX500 housings bother me.

I remember there was someone who did a fairly through comparison of the BKs to the Campfreds. But I can't seem to find. Can someone give me a link?


----------



## gazzington

I’m thinking bks are my next purchase


----------



## eaglesgift (Oct 19, 2017)

HungryPanda said:


> That is the ones and I can drive them ok from Shanling M1 on high gain around 50 and on my wife's N3 high gain 40-45 but once plugged in to my desktop amp they do gain more body


Thank you. I guess what I'd really like to know is whether the 150-ohm ones will sound better than the 64-ohm ones using an N3 or M1 or whether I wouldn't hear the difference until using something more powerful. I can't see me plugging them into my stereo amp that I use with a turntable (the only amp I have) so maybe it's not worth me getting the 150-ohm ones?


----------



## HungryPanda

I actually prefer the 32 ohm ones when using a dap


----------



## jogawag (Oct 19, 2017)

HungryPanda said:


> I actually prefer the 32 ohm ones when using a dap


I actually purchase Earbuds only under 200 ohm.


----------



## chaiyuta

For high impedance earbuds, in my experience if you don't have powerful DAP (midrange above) with balanced DAC/AMP plus balanced plug version of earbuds. Mostly I hear typical Ohm likes 32, 64 Ohm sound better.


----------



## eaglesgift (Oct 19, 2017)

HungryPanda said:


> I actually prefer the 32 ohm ones when using a dap


OK, thanks. I'll give those a try first. I hope you don't mind if I ask you one more question? They have three different 32-ohm models on Lazada here - a white one with a silver cable, a black one with a microphone and one they call a new model (AWK-F32T) which has a clear housing and silver cable. I'm thinking the 32-ohm ones you're talking about are the cheapest, black ones? (I quite like the look of the clear ones but maybe they sound different)

http://www.lazada.co.th/seahf-32-ohm-13144170.html?ff=1
http://www.lazada.co.th/seahf-32-ohm-10840983.html?spm=a2o4m.search.0.0.5a1faa0bN8xFXs&ff=1
http://www.lazada.co.th/seahf-awk-f32t-32-ohm-27200365.html?ff=1


----------



## HungryPanda

I bought the clear ones @32 ohm, black 64ohm


----------



## eaglesgift

HungryPanda said:


> I bought the clear ones @32 ohm, black 64ohm


Cool, thanks again.


----------



## cqtek (Oct 19, 2017)

Finally, I found something better than EMX500, the NiceHCK EB200. Bass are not powerful than EMX500, but they are more natural with better texture, also sub-bass is less present. The voices are more near, with remarkable clarity and proximity. Treble are more controlled and less crisp. I think that EMX500 is more V shaped than EB200. EMX500 has more soundstage and is more wide but the EB200 are more pleasant to listen to and more refined.

I want to thank @Muzamil for recommending these earbuds.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bra...re-update-page-1.854463/page-31#post-13733244


----------



## chinmie

cqtek said:


> Finally, I found something better than EMX500, the NiceHCK EB200. Bass are not powerful than EMX500, but they are more natural with better texture, also sub-bass is less present. The voices are more near, with remarkable clarity and proximity. Treble are more controlled and less crisp. I think that EMX500 is more V shaped than EB200. EMX500 has more soundstage and is more wide but the EB200 are more pleasant to listen to and more refined.
> 
> I want to thank @Muzamil for recommending these earbuds.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bra...re-update-page-1.854463/page-31#post-13733244



have you tried the mx760 graphene yet?


----------



## snip3r77

gazzington said:


> I’m thinking bks are my next purchase


Anyone can verify how close is Graphenes to BK?


----------



## chinmie

jogawag said:


> Comparisons of PureSound PS100-500Ω (10th earbuds at CONTENDER rank of ClieOS list) and TY Hi-Z HP-650 (6th at GREAT rank)!



ive tested the TY650 with my gears (N3 line out to Fiio E17K as amp) . it needs just a little more volume boost compared to the PS100-500, and surprisingly my tablet and phone can drive the TY650 to a fairly loud level (although near 90% volume). 
the sound signature though, i heavily prefer the PS100-500. comparing the two i use hiegis; full foams on the PS100-500, and donut foams on the TY650 (with full foam they sound too dark for me) 

Bass: the TY650 have a sludgy bass. it is enveloping, and does make the bigger "headphone" sounding, but i like the PS100-500's faster and snappier bass.
Mid: TY650 has a thick warm mids, to my ears it sounded veiled and makes vocals/words hard to hear. the PS100-500 sounded lighter and much clearer.
Treble: they are more or less similar on treble;smooth and non piercing. 
Soundstage: altough the TY650 sounded big, but instrument placements, reverbs and delays are harder to make out, while the PS100-500 is easier to hear them.

granted this review is not to say the TY650 is bad, it's just that with my current setup,  the PS100-500 performs much better and suits my taste more than the TY650

maybe with a different or more powerful setup, the TY650 will perfom better


----------



## RodRevenge

Any prog metal lover arround? If so which one should i get to rock some Opeth and DT, im guessing something with a decent soundstage since prog metal has a lot going on most of the time, right now i own the monk + and Faaeal 64 (seahf AWK 64F on the way thanks to the advice on black metal someone did earlier) i play most of my music on my galaxy s7 Snapdragon (not that great i know)


----------



## artpiggo

I don't follow this thread for a long time. Just curious if there any new TOTL earbud from Rose after mojito yet?


----------



## chellity

I, for one, miss aakash in his never ending life search for the warm smooth bassy earbud with details, mic, and flat cable. 

HE WAS JUST A MISGUIDED SOUL on his life's journey...


----------



## gazzington

You'll find the seahf earbuds great for opeth. What's next ear bud up for the metal fan. Stardust?





RodRevenge said:


> Any prog metal lover arround? If so which one should i get to rock some Opeth and DT, im guessing something with a decent soundstage since prog metal has a lot going on most of the time, right now i own the monk + and Faaeal 64 (seahf AWK 64F on the way thanks to the advice on black metal someone did earlier) i play most of my music on my galaxy s7 Snapdragon (not that great i know)


----------



## chaiyuta

@chellity : you remember wrong. Only heart-shaking boomy bass is his concern. hehe


----------



## Danneq

RodRevenge said:


> Any prog metal lover arround? If so which one should i get to rock some Opeth and DT, im guessing something with a decent soundstage since prog metal has a lot going on most of the time, right now i own the monk + and Faaeal 64 (seahf AWK 64F on the way thanks to the advice on black metal someone did earlier) i play most of my music on my galaxy s7 Snapdragon (not that great i know)



What sort of sound signature do you like? A bit more laid back or more "in your face" type of energetic sound? I love prog metal myself and prefer a more laid back sound signature since metal is energetic in itself.

Also, what price level are you looking at? 

At around $20-30 there are some good options: NiceNCK DIY PK2, NiceNCK DIY Graphene and Moondrop Nameless. PK2 & Graphene have a more forward and in your face presentation while Moondrop Nameless is a bit more gentle. From a short comparison I would rank soundstage like this: Nameless, Graphene, DIY PK2.

While DIY PK2 is forward and soundstage not the widest and deepest, it has good clarity and detail. You can make out individual instruments. Sure, cymbals can be a bit sharp sometimes, but that can depend on the source as well. I find Graphene to be a bit too bright for me. I wonder if that will go away with use... It's like the treble is a bit "bloomy". I find that sort of sharp sound to be similar to the Rose earbuds (I used to own Mojito but sold it).

So my overall recommendation would be Moondrop Nameless even if DIY PK2 impresses me more. However the PK2 loses on soundstage.

If you go up to around $40 there are two more options: Toneking MRZ Tomahawk and Yincrow RW 777. Overall I still think that Tomahawk well can hold its ground against newer earbuds in the same price range. It has got a fuller sound overall than Yincrow RW 777 which sounds a bit thin in comparison. However when you listen for a bit, RW 777 has got a really nice soundstage with good depth and detail.

Personally I would pick either Tomahawk or Yincrow RW 777 over the three earlier earbuds.

Someone was asking about Graphene vs Shozy BK/Stardust. Stardust have a similar presentation to Graphene & PK2. Graphene performs quite excellent, but to me the sort of sharp and "bloomy" treble is negative. Stardust is far more clear sounding and detailed. Is it worth 7-8 times the price of Graphene? That's a matter of personal choice.

Anyway, I just switched to my recently purchased Cypherus CampFred 2 and it's like leaving earbuds and switching to full size headphones. Deep soundstage, relaxed but still detailed treble and great sub bass for a pair of earbuds.


----------



## Danneq (Oct 20, 2017)

RodRevenge said:


> Any prog metal lover arround? If so which one should i get to rock some Opeth and DT, im guessing something with a decent soundstage since prog metal has a lot going on most of the time, right now i own the monk + and Faaeal 64 (seahf AWK 64F on the way thanks to the advice on black metal someone did earlier) i play most of my music on my galaxy s7 Snapdragon (not that great i know)



Forgot the other thing!

I've been a fan of prog metal for over 20 years, since Dream Theater released Awake (I first saw them live in Stockholm in 1995 with Fates Warning opening).

If you haven't checked these bands out, please do!

Dali's Dilemma - released an album in 1999 (Manifesto for Futurism). Great Dream Theater-type of prog metal with a sound close to Images & Words/Awake.

The Quiet Room - released 2 albums, one in 1997 and one in 2000 (I think) with a DT influenced sound.

Symphony X - You probably have heard them or at least heard of them. Great mix of prog and neoclassical metal

Power of Omens - my personal favorite. Released one album in 1998 and one in 2003. Amazingly technical with one of the craziest drummers I've heard. The singer sounds like Geoff Tate from Queensrÿche and the music is melodical but very very complex at the same time with time changes every five seconds.

Clockwork - released one album in 1999, Surface Tension. A sort of jazzy type of DT influenced prog metal sound. Very good.

Fates Warning - if you haven't listened to them, please do! They were an influence on Dream Theater when they started up. The last album, Theory of Flight from 2016 (?) is an amazing piece of prog metal. Melodic, moody and technical at the same time. Highly recommended!


----------



## gazzington

How do you order campfred 2s as they sound awesome?


----------



## Danneq (Oct 20, 2017)

gazzington said:


> How do you order campfred 2s as they sound awesome?



You can contact Cypherus on the Facebook page or go to the new Cypherus Audio homepage and order them there (I think you have to use the "contact us" form to order from the homepage).

However, CampFred 2 is in the top end of the price scale of earbuds. $199 excluding shipping and shipping from Indonesia can be a bit expensive. I got my pair second hand. Paid around $210 in total but if I bought it new it would probably be $230-240 with shipping.

However, I only use earbuds (and sometimes clip on earphones) and some people spend a lot more on full size headphones. I search for earbuds that can give me a full size headphone type of sound and that usually costs a bit...


----------



## gazzington

Ah I see. What's the best ear bud up to £100 for a metal man


----------



## ichtch (Oct 20, 2017)

Does auglamour rx1 still worth to buy nowday? I like mid forward and warm signature earbud
I have vido, vemonk plus , toneking tp16,emx500,yuin pk3,edi h185,ty hiz 32,yincrowx6


----------



## Danneq

gazzington said:


> Ah I see. What's the best ear bud up to £100 for a metal man



Not sure... I stick to $150+ or budget earbuds. However sometimes I can buy something up to around $50. I don't really know the market for $50-$100 (or £100) earbuds. I used to own Musicmaker/Toneking Ting and it was nice, but I sold it. Edimun V3 and Red De'mun are earbuds from small Indonesian DIY companies (Bengkel Macro and De'mun)

To me both Tomahawk and Yincrow RW 777 would be worth getting at the same time. It would still be under £100 and you would get two earbuds that work with metal but with different sound signatures. Yincrow has a bigger soundstage overall and a leaner and cleaner sound. But metal guitars sound really great with Tomahawk. And despite having a more "meaty" sound than Yincrow, instrument separation and layering is really good on Tomahawk. Still, Tomahawk is a love/hate earbud with some loving it and some hating it. It cannot compete with my TOTL earbuds but I always enjoy it especially with metal so that's why I keep it. It doesn't work as well with more soft styles of music. RW 777 is more versatile in that way.

Anyway, others can probably come with more suggestions.


----------



## gazzington

What about over €100. Is stardust best in this category? Sorry to ask loads


----------



## seanc6441

I love my DIY PK2 but I wish it had slightly better resolution and slightly more sub bass extension. It really is a special earbud for the price though, it has an energy and detail about each instrument it pushes out which is wonderful. Vocals is where it struggles though IMO.

I'd love a DIY PK2 with better vocals, I can live with the smaller soundstage as it gives a more intimate presentation to music. One of the few buds I have that combines warmth and sparkle just right.

I guess the shozy stardust is this signature in TOTL class? If so i'm going to have no choice but to scrape funds together because I need this sound in my music lol.


----------



## euge

seanc6441 said:


> I love my DIY PK2 but I wish it had slightly better resolution and slightly more sub bass extension. It really is a special earbud for the price though, it has an energy and detail about each instrument it pushes out which is wonderful. Vocals is where it struggles though IMO.
> 
> I'd love a DIY PK2 with better vocals, I can live with the smaller soundstage as it gives a more intimate presentation to music. One of the few buds I have that combines warmth and sparkle just right.
> 
> I guess the shozy stardust is this signature in TOTL class? If so i'm going to have no choice but to scrape funds together because I need this sound in my music lol.



lol


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 20, 2017)

Danneq said:


> At around $20-30 there are some good options: NiceNCK DIY PK2, NiceNCK DIY Graphene and Moondrop Nameless. PK2 & Graphene have a more forward and in your face presentation while Moondrop Nameless is a bit more gentle. From a short comparison I would rank soundstage like this: Nameless, Graphene, DIY PK2.
> 
> I find Graphene to be a bit too bright for me. I wonder if that will go away with use... It's like the treble is a bit "bloomy".
> 
> Someone was asking about Graphene vs Shozy BK/Stardust. Stardust have a similar presentation to Graphene & PK2. Graphene performs quite excellent, but to me the sort of sharp and "bloomy" treble is negative. Stardust is far more clear sounding and detailed.



Try PK2 and Graphene with these two foam combo's.

1) Ve Monk Thin + Heigi Donut on top
2) Ve monk thin + Ve monk thin "donut" (pinch and pull middle of monk foam and cut it to form a hole making it a donut foam.

I can't confirm this helps graphene yet but on my Masya and PK2 it's epic. It tames the treble, brings out the sub bass but most importantly it retains most of the detailing that you lose with a full foam.

I'm currently using thin foam and heigi but when I get my ve pack ill try the second option which can only improve the clarity and hopefully retain the full sound im hearing with combo one.

The more I venture into earbuds and finding the perfect sound the more I realise the significance of foam combinations and fit.

Let me know if you like this combo 
(assuming you have monk foams and heigi foams^^)



ichtch said:


> Does auglamour rx1 still worth to buy nowday? I like mid forward and warm signature earbud
> I have vido, vemonk plus , toneking tp16,emx500,yuin pk3,edi h185,ty hiz 32,yincrowx6



I have an RX1 that isn't getting much use due to it not fitting my ear right. I was going to list it in FS  section but I'm willing to sell/trade with you if your interested.

As for if it's worth buying well for me it's too neutral for my tastes (I like more warm sound) but everyone has different tastes so maybe you will prefer neutral sound signature.


----------



## Danneq

seanc6441 said:


> Try PK2 and Graphene with these two foam combo's.
> 
> 1) Ve Monk Thin + Heigi Donut on top
> 2) Ve monk thin + Ve monk thin "donut" (pinch and pull middle of monk foam and cut it to form a hole making it a donut foam.
> ...



Thanks.

Right now I'm using heigi donuts on DIY PK2 and that works well. I have the same setup on Shozy Stardust and that works well. Treble is ever so slightly sharp but it doesn't bother me too much. (I'm more sensitive to the Rose Mojito type of treble)

I'm using regular thickness foams with Graphene. I find treble to be slightly too strong on Tomahawk with other foams than regular thick foams. However the treble isn't tamed in the same way on the Graphenes. The combinations you mention might work.

Ah, and I really think Stardust is worth the price. Fortunately this is pretty much my only hobby so I can spend a bit on it. Still, I am pretty much content with what I've got even if I feel tempted to try out new earbuds now and then...


----------



## cqtek

chinmie said:


> have you tried the mx760 graphene yet?



I read a lot of information about this model but I like bass and I think the graphene mx760 are brighter than I like. Graphene mx760 bass and sub-bass are in the same quantity and quality than EB200?
Now I'm waiting for DQSM Z&W Panda PK2s, I read here that they have more bass than other PK models.
https://es.aliexpress.com/store/pro...-Head-Plug-Earplugs/1825606_32831045644.html?


----------



## seanc6441

Danneq said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Right now I'm using heigi donuts on DIY PK2 and that works well. I have the same setup on Shozy Stardust and that works well. Treble is ever so slightly sharp but it doesn't bother me too much. (I'm more sensitive to the Rose Mojito type of treble)
> 
> ...


I get some weird effects with some earbuds and foam combinations which work well for some but not so much on others.

Every other combo i've tried to far has either offered clarity and treble at the expense bass impact/full sound or vice versa.

This combination is giving me both so far. But it only seems to work on earbuds with strong treble to begin with, as the layers of monk/heigi foams on the outer vents do tame tge high ends. But I still get the mid/high sparkle which is very important to me.

As I said, this combo may work for some earbuds. Hopefully the graphene is one of them.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 20, 2017)

cqtek said:


> I read a lot of information about this model but I like bass and I think the graphene mx760 are brighter than I like. Graphene mx760 bass and sub-bass are in the same quantity and quality than EB200?
> Now I'm waiting for DQSM Z&W Panda PK2s, I read here that they have more bass than other PK models.
> https://es.aliexpress.com/store/pro...-Head-Plug-Earplugs/1825606_32831045644.html?


On the contrary I think with heigi donuts the DIY PK2 has respectable bass slam. It's tight and it's got some weight to it, only issue is it doesn't extend down low much thus being more a mid bass thump than a sub bass rumble.

Works a charm on classic rock and drums though. It's a very cool earbud to be honest. Just lacking the resolution to handle the intimate soundstage, so sometimes tracks can sound congested.

It's not a bassy earbud, but it destroys notably bass light earbuds like Monk +. I'd class it as an all rounder rather than 'bass light'

If your a basshead you can skip it though, there ar better options for less money if bass is your main concern.


----------



## chinmie

cqtek said:


> I read a lot of information about this model but I like bass and I think the graphene mx760 are brighter than I like. Graphene mx760 bass and sub-bass are in the same quantity and quality than EB200?
> Now I'm waiting for DQSM Z&W Panda PK2s, I read here that they have more bass than other PK models.
> https://es.aliexpress.com/store/pro...-Head-Plug-Earplugs/1825606_32831045644.html?



the graphene had ample sub and bass, the treble is indeed bright, but too me (with full foams) never felt sibilant. i haven't compared them to the EB200 though. 

if you like bass, you might want to try the Svara L. mine is the 115 ohm version, and it has the most powerful bass in my collection, the mids and treble is also warm and not bright


----------



## ichtch

seanc6441 said:


> I have an RX1 that isn't getting much use due to it not fitting my ear right. I was going to list it in FS  section but I'm willing to sell/trade with you if your interested.
> 
> As for if it's worth buying well for me it's too neutral for my tastes (I like more warm sound) but everyone has different tastes so maybe you will prefer neutral sound signature.


so rx1 is neutral sounding..i think its a warm sounding  so bad im prefer warm sound too


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 20, 2017)

ichtch said:


> so rx1 is neutral sounding..i think its a warm sounding  so bad im prefer warm sound too


Yes it's very neutral, not warm at all. No problem we have the same preference then. 

Check out the DIY PK2 it's warm all rounder and it's very fun to listen to anything like rock/acoustic/alternative rock.

I'm listening to 'spirit in the sky' by Norman Greenbaum. The opening electric guiter is what this earbud is all about, it's like sitting right in front of the instrument and hearing it's energy up close.

I need the graphene's now to compare.


----------



## ichtch

seanc6441 said:


> Yes it's very neutral, not warm at all. No problem we have the same preference then.
> 
> Check out the DIY PK2 it's warm all rounder and it's very fun to listen to anything like rock/acoustic/alternative rock.
> 
> ...


thanks.. i will try it nicehck diy pk2


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 20, 2017)

ichtch said:


> thanks.. i will try it nicehck diy pk2


Or EMX500, depends on your preference.

Do you prefer U shape or balanced?

PK2 is more close sounding and more natural sparkle and treble

EMX500 has bigger soundstage and better bass extension, sound deeper.

Both are warm, emx500 maybe slightly better clarity but less musical than PK2 IMO.

EMX500 for atmospheric music and pop/electronic. PK2 for rock, acoustic and alternative.

If there was something in between EMX500 and PK2 in the budget range it would be very nice. Graphene is apparently a brighter sound, leaning towards neutral. I'll be able to check it out soon when it arrives.


----------



## RodRevenge

Danneq said:


> Forgot the other thing!
> 
> I've been a fan of prog metal for over 20 years, since Dream Theater released Awake (I first saw them live in Stockholm in 1995 with Fates Warning opening).
> 
> ...



Im getting the DIY PK2 and the Nameles when i get paid, ty so much, right now i dont really know what i like best since im still pretty new going to experiment with those 2 and the seahf 64 and then jump on more expensive stuff, yeah i know some those bands will check out the others, Micheal Romeo is a beast. Right now im jamming a lot of Leprous, their most recent "Malina" is amazing give it a listen if you haven't


----------



## seanc6441

RodRevenge said:


> Im getting the DIY PK2 and the Nameles when i get paid, ty so much, right now i dont really know what i like best since im still pretty new going to experiment with those 2 and the seahf 64 and then jump on more expensive stuff, yeah i know some those bands will check out the others, Micheal Romeo is a beast. Right now im jamming a lot of Leprous, their most recent "Malina" is amazing give it a listen if you haven't


Good choices. Don't know about the nameless but the PK2 needs a long burn in (50-100 hours) to really shine. At least mine did anyway.


----------



## ichtch

seanc6441 said:


> Or EMX500, depends on your preference.
> 
> Do you prefer U shape or balanced?
> 
> ...


i already have an emx500 i think it sounds like ty hiz 32 or vido with more sparkling at high , if possible i prefer mid forward sweet and thick but not sacrifice at low i think it more like ty hiz 32 but more forward mid (its hard to describe lol) , does anyone have try reter earbud jack with original viablue or other high end jacks? does it improve?


----------



## 93EXCivic

seanc6441 said:


> I love my DIY PK2 but I wish it had slightly better resolution and slightly more sub bass extension. It really is a special earbud for the price though, it has an energy and detail about each instrument it pushes out which is wonderful. Vocals is where it struggles though IMO.
> 
> I'd love a DIY PK2 with better vocals, I can live with the smaller soundstage as it gives a more intimate presentation to music. One of the few buds I have that combines warmth and sparkle just right.
> 
> I guess the shozy stardust is this signature in TOTL class? If so i'm going to have no choice but to scrape funds together because I need this sound in my music lol.



Which DIY PK2 do you have? I have a NiceHCK one (with the green cable). 

It is not at all warm and the vocals are one of its strong points.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 20, 2017)

ichtch said:


> i already have an emx500 i think it sounds like ty hiz 32 or vido with more sparkling at high , if possible i prefer mid forward sweet and thick but not sacrifice at low i think it more like ty hiz 32 but more forward mid (its hard to describe lol) , does anyone have try reter earbud jack with original viablue or other high end jacks? does it improve?


I'm not an expert on sound science but I don't think that will change the SQ. There's so much debate about what cables do to SQ but it's mostly anecdotal and without much 'proof'. The resistance can boost/lower the db level I think, which may be perceived as a difference in SQ, or you could intentionally make a cable with added resistance to try tamper with the sound. But if you're talking about premade cables 99% of them have extremely close electrical properties thus probably sounding the same?

The again people question burn in all the time, and I believe in that... because I have actually heard a difference with my own ears. So I'd love to try 2 of the same buds with cheap and expensive cables to be sure for myself hehe 

It's a very debatable subject, but it'd be misleading to say a €100 cable will improve the SQ of your earbuds. Until I hear it myself I'd be very sceptical.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 20, 2017)

93EXCivic said:


> Which DIY PK2 do you have? I have a NiceHCK one (with the green cable).
> 
> It is not at all warm and the vocals are one of its strong points.


Nicehck, golden brown cable, 50 hours burn in (maybe). I personally don't think the cables would make a difference although i'd love to hear both out of curiosity.

My source is iphone 6s. It's pretty neutral and very clean and balanced sound. Not any colour or boosted bass or such.

It's about as warm as EMX500 or VE monk. More than Masya for sure.

I characterise warm sound as a more thick full sound that has a more bassy quality to the mids as opposed to neutral-cold sound which has a lean or thinner sound.

I think an earbud can be warm and bright (not rolled off) but this characteristic is usually seen more in full sized headphones that can produce a full bodied sound without losing sparkle and detail in each note/instrument.

Most bright earbuds are also neutral or cold and most warm earbuds are dark. But the PK2 sounds both warm and kind of bright or sparkly at the same time. It has detail but lacks resolution and some separation to really push a clarity in mids and vocals to make its smaller soundstage not sound congested.


----------



## ichtch

seanc6441 said:


> I'm not an expert on sound science but I don't think that will change the SQ. There's so much debate about what cables do to SQ but it's mostly anecdotal and without much 'proof'. The resistance can boost/lower the db level I think, which may be perceived as a difference in SQ, or you could intentionally make a cable with added resistance to try tamper with the sound. But if you're talking about premade cables 99% of them have extremely close electrical properties thus probably sounding the same?
> 
> The again people question burn in all the time, and I believe in that... because I have actually heard a difference with my own ears. So I'd love to try 2 of the same buds with cheap and expensive cables to be sure for myself hehe
> 
> It's a very debatable subject, but it'd be misleading to say a €100 cable will improve the SQ of your earbuds. Until I hear it myself I'd be very sceptical.


yeah i heard that too its very subjective some ppl says it improve and otherelse doesnt , im just planning to just reterminate only the jack and keep the standart cable but i think it wouldnt improve too


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 20, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> Nicehck, golden brown cable, 50 hours burn in (maybe). I personally don't think the cables would make a difference although i'd love to hear both out of curiosity.
> 
> My source is iphone 6s. It's pretty neutral and very clean and balanced sound. Not any colour or boosted bass or such.
> 
> It's about as warm as EMX500 or VE monk. More than Masya for sure.





ichtch said:


> yeah i heard that too its very subjective some ppl says it improve and otherelse doesnt , im just planning to just reterminate only the jack and keep the standart cable but i think it wouldnt improve too


Well changing only the jack wouldn't do anything I think. since it feeds directly to the cable and thus is reliant on cable quality before it reaches your driver.

If you find an earbud your think is perfect maybe it's worth the money to upgrade the cable/jack. But i still wouldn't hold my breath on it sounding any different.

Anyone with the Rose Masya 2 cable version who could A/B test it would be a good task. That earbud is extremely detailed and clear so it should be discernable to hear some SQ differences if they even exist.

I bet if you diy'ed a cable and intentionally used a process to modify its resistance you could probably change the db decibel level to a noticeable degree but i think all factory built cables are over 99.9% pure? Correct me if im wrong anyone. Thus the difference is probably not even hearable.


----------



## 93EXCivic (Oct 20, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> Nicehck, golden brown cable, 50 hours burn in (maybe). I personally don't think the cables would make a difference although i'd love to hear both out of curiosity.
> 
> My source is iphone 6s. It's pretty neutral and very clean and balanced sound. Not any colour or boosted bass or such.
> 
> ...



I guess different ears and all that. Because I wouldn't remotely describe the VE Monks as warm either. Your description of warm is what I think of as well.

My sources are iPod with FiiO Q1, V20, Zishan Z2 or my desktop setup (very very rarely on that last one though).


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 20, 2017)

93EXCivic said:


> I guess different ears and all that. Because I wouldn't remotely describe the VE Monks as warm either. Your description of warm is what I think of as well.
> 
> My sources are iPod with FiiO Q1, V20, Zishan Z2 or my desktop setup (very very rarely on that last one though).



Hmm interesting. I consider monk a warm (slightly less than pk2 but on the warmer side of neutral) and dark analog sound. Every except the mid range is rolled off, making it an easy midcentric listen but lacking on both ends.

Which bud do you consider warm?


----------



## 93EXCivic (Oct 20, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> Hmm interesting. I consider monk a warm and dark analog sound. Every except the mid range is rolled off, making it an easy midcentric listen but lacking on both ends.
> 
> Which bud do you consider warm?



My Yinman 150 ohm is for me the definition of a warm bud. Nice bass without rolling into the mid range and a nice thick sound. It is also a very laid back bud. I'd also say the CF2 is a warm bud. Not as warm as the Yinman 150 ohm as it is more energetic and has stronger highs which I feel makes it a little less warm then the 150 ohm. But still a decently warm bud.

I found the Monks bass to be very lacking and that may be coloring my judgement of it. But for me to be called warm it needs decent bass quality. To me the Monk+ bass is both weak and out of control.


----------



## chaiyuta

ichtch said:


> i already have an emx500 i think it sounds like ty hiz 32 or vido with more sparkling at high , if possible i prefer mid forward sweet and thick but not sacrifice at low i think it more like ty hiz 32 but more forward mid (its hard to describe lol) , does anyone have try reter earbud jack with original viablue or other high end jacks? does it improve?


I ever terminated M2M cable with viablue jacks, however I am not a fan of viablue sound. I can say that its sound changes (thicker vocal, more mid-bass). Anyway, I prefer furutech (rodium plated) most.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 20, 2017)

93EXCivic said:


> My Yinman 150 ohm is for me the definition of a warm bud. Nice bass without rolling into the mid range and a nice thick sound. It is also a very laid back bud. I'd also say the CF2 is a warm bud. Not as warm as the Yinman 150 ohm as it is more energetic and has stronger highs which I feel makes it a little less warm then the 150 ohm. But still a decently warm bud.
> 
> I found the Monks bass to be very lacking and that may be coloring my judgement of it. But for me to be called warm it needs decent bass quality. To me the Monk+ bass is both weak and out of control.



I think you're associating bright sound with a lack of warmth, now maybe you're right and bright is the opposite of warm but myself I like to consider bright as "not rolled off" thus having a more detailed/vivid sound and dark being "rolled off" thus having a less fatiguing but compressed sound. PK2 leans more towards bright, it's treble extends further with little roll off. But I consider it also to be more warm tonally as the vocals have a weighty thick sound, with a nice fullness.

To me dark/bright is about detail and extension of each note. Whilst cold/neutral/warm is about the fullness and possibly length of time each note resonates. Or possibly the warmth or coolness of sound is a result of where the balance lies between roll off of low vs high frequencies? But if that's the case the PK bud is neutral??? Not quiet sure lol All I know is to me it feels somewhat warm and also bright and sparkly... It's all about feelings here xD

As with the monks maybe i'm letting its dark sound confuse me with assuming it's also warmer more full bodied than it actually is.

These definitions are kind of subjective or not  clearly defined between listeners anyway. But it's cool to hear different perspectives!


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 20, 2017)

chaiyuta said:


> I ever terminated M2M cable with viablue jacks, however I am not a fan of viablue sound. I can say that its sound changes (thicker vocal, more mid-bass). Anyway, I prefer furutech (rodium plated) most.


Are you saying the jack is changing the sound without also changing the cable/source/amp? because the would be interesting to hear.


----------



## chaiyuta

@seanc6441 Yes, Finally that M2M cable I reterminated again with AEC rodium-plated jack. If you interested on jack. You might search and see customer feedback at any web-store. By the way, if you are the one who curious about Cable, Jack, soldering wire. You should tried by yourself. Some systems might hear minimal difference while some might distinctly difference. If you want to test I recommend you go to audio store ask them to try UIEM (demo unit) plus any insanely expensive cable or from well-known brands likes Beat Audio, Effect Audio, Plussounds, etc. and plian stock cable. I guess you read a lot of the opposite side from me. In head-fi, there are threads that accumulate whoever hear the difference on cable, jack or even soldering wire. 

The following link is the example one that he review how jack effect on sound. 
https://www.headfonia.com/review-effect-audio-lionheart-rich/


----------



## 93EXCivic

seanc6441 said:


> I think you're associating bright sound with a lack of warmth, now maybe you're right and bright is the opposite of warm but myself I like to consider bright as "not rolled off" thus having a more detailed/vivid sound and dark being "rolled off" thus having a less fatiguing but compressed sound. PK2 leans more towards bright, it's treble extends further with little roll off. But I consider it also to be more warm tonally as the vocals have a weighty thick sound, with a nice fullness.
> 
> To me dark/bright is about detail and extension of each note. Whilst cold/neutral/warm is about the fullness and possibly length of time each note resonates. Or possibly the warmth or coolness of sound is a result of where the balance lies between roll off of low vs high frequencies? But if that's the case the PK bud is neutral??? Not quiet sure lol All I know is to me it feels somewhat warm and also bright and sparkly... It's all about feelings here xD
> 
> ...



Yeah. I think the whole describing sound with words gets as confusing as crap since no one really agrees on what the hell they mean. 

I get what you are saying about the warm and brightness. As I find the Hd600s to have a bit of warmth but still strong highs. I think though in general if a headphone has a bit of focus on the higher end of frequencies, it is going to take some of the warmth away.


----------



## waynes world

93EXCivic said:


> Yeah. I think the whole describing sound with words gets as confusing as **** since no one really agrees on what the hell they mean.



It is confusing. I'm gonna have to go over the below again one of these days:
*Describing Sound A Glossary*

and this as well:
*Glossary Of Terms*


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 20, 2017)

93EXCivic said:


> Yeah. I think the whole describing sound with words gets as confusing as **** since no one really agrees on what the hell they mean.
> 
> I get what you are saying about the warm and brightness. As I find the Hd600s to have a bit of warmth but still strong highs. I think though in general if a headphone has a bit of focus on the higher end of frequencies, it is going to take some of the warmth away.



That's generally the case with earbuds and some headphones, I think the full pads and cups on headphones help make bright headphones still sound warm/full as the sound bouces around alot and is contained in the pads. That and 50mm drivers can handle tasks differently I'm sure.


----------



## seanc6441

chaiyuta said:


> @seanc6441 Yes, Finally that M2M cable I reterminated again with AEC rodium-plated jack. If you interested on jack. You might search and see customer feedback at any web-store. By the way, if you are the one who curious about Cable, Jack, soldering wire. You should tried by yourself. Some systems might hear minimal difference while some might distinctly difference. If you want to test I recommend you go to audio store ask them to try UIEM (demo unit) plus any insanely expensive cable or from well-known brands likes Beat Audio, Effect Audio, Plussounds, etc. and plian stock cable. I guess you read a lot of the opposite side from me. In head-fi, there are threads that accumulate whoever hear the difference on cable, jack or even soldering wire.
> 
> The following link is the example one that he review how jack effect on sound.
> https://www.headfonia.com/review-effect-audio-lionheart-rich/



I'm in no position to disagree with you but that article you linked begins with the reviewer saying that the site is partnered with the cable seller... lol

Call me sceptical but there may be some bias in that. I'd have to hear it for myself but I'm currently unwilling to spend a fortune on a cable... maybe some day.


----------



## Saoshyant

@93EXCivic It doesn't help that people start using terms that mean absolutely nothing in relation to this hobby when trying to describe something too.  One person started using wine terms, to which I eventually had to respond that I had no clue what the heck they were talking about and no sense was being made.


----------



## 93EXCivic

Saoshyant said:


> @93EXCivic It doesn't help that people start using terms that mean absolutely nothing in relation to this hobby when trying to describe something too.  One person started using wine terms, to which I eventually had to respond that I had no clue what the heck they were talking about and no sense was being made.



Haha. Or when they start using car comparisons especially because usually they are almost always horrible.


----------



## HungryPanda

but my earphones sound so chocolately


----------



## siderak

K's 300 Samsara is pretty impressive. 
Soundstage is a step smaller than the Campfred 2, which I like. The CF2 is too big sometimes and can swallow a bit of the mids.
I've only had the Samsara's a couple of weeks so they need to burn in. So far I'm hearing an excellent amount of detail.
They definitely have the bass slam of the CF2 and the mids are more pushed forward slightly.


----------



## Saoshyant

Just got in my new 2.5mm TRRS cable for Svara-L from VE's recent cable massdrop.  I had been using the espresso cable for the task, so basically the same thing except in a different color that actually suits the earbud.  The espresso's MMCX connector looks nicer, but the overall aesthetics suits the Svara nicely.  I was going to use it with the Monoprice M300, but I'm in the process of trying to return that, so new Svara-L toy!


----------



## cqtek (Oct 20, 2017)

chinmie said:


> the graphene had ample sub and bass, the treble is indeed bright, but too me (with full foams) never felt sibilant. i haven't compared them to the EB200 though.
> 
> if you like bass, you might want to try the Svara L. mine is the 115 ohm version, and it has the most powerful bass in my collection, the mids and treble is also warm and not bright



Yes, I like bass, and I read a lot of also Svara L 115 Ohms version, but now I don't know where to buy because the new version has only 32 Ohms. Has the 32 Ohms version the same bass than 115 Ohms version?



seanc6441 said:


> On the contrary I think with heigi donuts the DIY PK2 has respectable bass slam. It's tight and it's got some weight to it, only issue is it doesn't extend down low much thus being more a mid bass thump than a sub bass rumble.
> Works a charm on classic rock and drums though. It's a very cool earbud to be honest. Just lacking the resolution to handle the intimate soundstage, so sometimes tracks can sound congested.
> It's not a bassy earbud, but it destroys notably bass light earbuds like Monk +. I'd class it as an all rounder rather than 'bass light'
> If your a basshead you can skip it though, there ar better options for less money if bass is your main concern.



I have some other earbuds:

1More EO320, QianYun Qian39, QianYun Qian69, T-Music v1 (Bass Tuned), EMX500, VE Monk Plus, Mrz Tomahawk, Pioneer SE-CE521-K, Edifier H180, Vido, NiceHCK EB200, NiceHCK PK1 MX500.

And Vido seems the earbud with more bass I have. Other budget earbuds like RY4S or Yincrow X6 has similar or equal driver with different cable, isn't it? Do you know other alternative with good bass and forward mid section?


----------



## seanc6441

93EXCivic said:


> Haha. Or when they start using car comparisons especially because usually they are almost always horrible.





cqtek said:


> Yes, I like bass, and I read a lot of also Svara L 115 Ohms version, but now I don't know where to buy because the new version has only 32 Ohms. Has the 32 Ohms version the same bass than 115 Ohms version?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you like the vido bass DIY PK2 is not for you lol.

Vido is very boomy and emphasised bass. Try other people's suggestions


----------



## HungryPanda

Seahf AWK-F150C has the best bass of my earbuds


----------



## chinmie

HungryPanda said:


> Seahf AWK-F150C has the best bass of my earbuds



how is it overall compared to the Svara L? i like the Svara for watching movie, it feels like theater sound  system for the big sub bass and enormous soundstage, but for music i prefer my other buds


----------



## chinmie

cqtek said:


> Yes, I like bass, and I read a lot of also Svara L 115 Ohms version, but now I don't know where to buy because the new version has only 32 Ohms. Has the 32 Ohms version the same bass than 115 Ohms version?



sadly i haven't tried the 32 ohm version


----------



## HungryPanda

My Svara is the 32 ohm version I have never heard the 115ohm one


----------



## chaiyuta

@seanc6441 Sorry, I did not read carefully that that site is partnered with cable seller brands. By the way, you might look around in head-fi, there are both reviews and threads.


----------



## voxdub

Please could someone advise if there is anything better than the Vido/EMX500 in the sub $40 price range with a similar sound signature (warm with decent bass but with decent extension in higher frequencies without being bright).

Otherwise might take a gamble and order another EMX500, absolutely loved the sound of that bud in the week or so it actually worked, the Vido is really close but the j cable annoys me and I can't stand microphones on headphones that I'll only use with a DAP.


----------



## golov17

How to edit the list of equipment in your personal profile? I can not understand with the new site, damn


----------



## rahmish

golov17 said:


> How to edit the list of equipment in your personal profile? I can not understand with the new site, damn


I think you need to go to personal details and edit there! Worked for me


----------



## vladstef

voxdub said:


> Please could someone advise if there is anything better than the Vido/EMX500 in the sub $40 price range with a similar sound signature (warm with decent bass but with decent extension in higher frequencies without being bright).
> 
> Otherwise might take a gamble and order another EMX500, absolutely loved the sound of that bud in the week or so it actually worked, the Vido is really close but the j cable annoys me and I can't stand microphones on headphones that I'll only use with a DAP.



I've grown used to EMX500 sound and once I've tried Vido after EMX, the difference was actually very big, Vido being far less good in many ways. EMX only has an issue with bass sometimes being distorted but otherwise I don't think that there is an earbud below 100 that can comfortably beat it without fighting for it, big time. Obviously, there are people that won't like it due to qc, how it fits in the ears, how it changes sound based on positioning (it can sound harsh for some due to incompatible fit)...


----------



## golov17

rahmish said:


> I think you need to go to personal details and edit there! Worked for me


?


----------



## HungryPanda

click your username on the right of the main bar at the top


----------



## jant71

The seller that should not be named showing as a new arrival an EMX500 with yet another cable  Looks nice though!


----------



## Yobster69

golov17 said:


> ?


Hit the username at the top and then personal details. Scroll down to your headphone list and tap into it to be able to add stuff. 
I hope this helps?


----------



## golov17

HungryPanda said:


> click your username on the right of the main bar at the top





HungryPanda said:


> click your username on the right of the main bar at the top


----------



## fairx

So in concensus. Which emx500 to get? Has the qc got better  these days.? Or just order and pray?


----------



## RodRevenge (Oct 21, 2017)

jant71 said:


> The seller that should not be named showing as a new arrival an EMX500 with yet another cable  Looks nice though!



Who is this seller you talk about?


----------



## waynes world

voxdub said:


> Please could someone advise if there is anything better than the Vido/EMX500 in the sub $40 price range with a similar sound signature (warm with decent bass but with decent extension in higher frequencies without being bright).
> 
> Otherwise might take a gamble and order another EMX500, absolutely loved the sound of that bud in the week or so it actually worked, the Vido is really close but the j cable annoys me and I can't stand microphones on headphones that I'll only use with a DAP.



I love the emx500, but I think you're looking for the NiceHCK Graphenes. (or possibly some of the Seahf's that hungrypanda likes)


----------



## RodRevenge

Are the **** and NiceHCK DIY PK2 any different? don't know which one i should buy


----------



## jant71

RodRevenge said:


> Who is this seller you talk about?



You just said it along with NiceHCK  Just don't say it three times in a row!


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 21, 2017)

I must be lucky my emx500 has survived for 3 weeks now. Not using it much this week though honestly. Doesn't win my heart over despite objectively being a very good earbud.

Oh and I think my earbud quest will settle down for awhile now... Seeing as I just bought the Shozy BK from the FS forum.

Praying it's the sound i've been looking for...


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> I must be lucky my emx500 has survived for 3 weeks now. Not using it much this week though honestly. Doesn't win my heart over despite objectively being a very good earbud.
> 
> Oh and I think my earbud quest will settle down for awhile now... Seeing as I just bought the Shozy BK from the FS forum.
> 
> Praying it's the sound i've been looking for...



Congrats! Are you still getting the graphene? If so, I'll be interested in your comparison.


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> Congrats! Are you still getting the graphene? If so, I'll be interested in your comparison.


Just the NiceHCK version, AK audio had not processed my order for a few days allowing me to cancel when I ordered from NiceHCK.

Sorry I won't be able to compare different versions of graphene but I will be able to compare Graphere, Stardust and Masya


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Just the NiceHCK version, AK audio had not processed my order for a few days allowing me to cancel when I ordered from NiceHCK.
> 
> Sorry I won't be able to compare different versions of graphene but I will be able to compare Graphere, Stardust and Masya



I have the NiceHCK version as well, so that's perfect. Hopefully you provide the correct answers lol


----------



## cathee

hey quick q: has anyone tried any of the rholupat earbuds?


----------



## DeltaRay (Oct 22, 2017)

Between NICEHCK DIY's Graphene, PK2 and EMX500. Which one should i go for it if I want a detailed yet neutral with slightly bassy presentation? Yet smaller than a MX500 fit?


----------



## thelonius97 (Oct 22, 2017)

cathee said:


> hey quick q: has anyone tried any of the rholupat earbuds?


I don't think Rholupat actually makes the earbuds. They just resell them or something. Out of the ones on their site, I think the Edimun and the Red/Blue Demun are somewhat popular here. Haven't tried either, though.


----------



## rahmish

cathee said:


> hey quick q: has anyone tried any of the rholupat earbuds?


I have Blue De'mun, Sabia V4 and Kanzenoka Sawarna


----------



## gazzington

Matter of interest what are the blue and red demun earphones like and also the raven mk2? I am also wondering about the edimun v3. Do any of you have any information about these.


----------



## Saoshyant

Hmm, had I known Raven 2 was out I'd have ordered it already.  Unfortunately Rholupat seems to be out of stock even though it states limited stock.  I'll have to check back later in hopes it'll show up.

As far as the Red Demun, I'm probably the only one who's somewhat against the earbud purely due to it's very stiff cable.  For me, I had to anchor it in my ears with hooks to keep it somewhat in place, and even that couldn't keep it flush enough for a seal.  I know a lot of people like it's sound, but for me the cable kept me from enjoying them.


----------



## acap13

Speaking of Indonesian earbuds, have anyone tried compared Raven mk2 with something like Edimun V3, Red/Blue Demun, ABnormal, Kanzenoka? Any input would be appreciated..


----------



## jogawag (Oct 23, 2017)

I have received NiceHCK DIY Graphene MX760.
Now, I will compare 4 of
TY Hi-Z HP-150s(150s) / NiceHCK Graphene MX760(MX760) / EMX500(EMX500) / NiceHCK PK2s(PK2s).

Bass: 150s=EMX500>MX760>PK2s
Mids: EMX500=MX760=PK2s>150s
Treble: MX760>150s=EMX500=PK2s
SoundStage: 150s>MX760>EMX500=PK2s

In terms of sound quality, below.
MX760 is similar to Shozy BK.
EMX500 has deep bass.
TY HP-150s has good SoundStage.
PK2s has good SoundBalance.

If you need to choose only one, I recommend Graphene MX760 for sound quality which is similar to Shozy BK.
If you like a deep bass and cost performance, I recommend EMX500.
If you like good SoundBalance or your ear hole is small, I recommend PK2s.
If you like good SoundStage or V shaped SoundBalance, I recommend TY HP-150s.

TY Hi-Z HP-150s(150s) / NiceHCK Graphene MX760(MX760) / EMX500(EMX500) / NiceHCK PK2s(PK2s)


----------



## cathee

rahmish said:


> I have Blue De'mun, Sabia V4 and Kanzenoka Sawarna



care to share some impressions?


----------



## ichtch

how do you guys take care/store of your buds? i have many buds and im only have two ears (lol) when i like one earbuds , other earbuds become unused for long time but i want to keep it as good as possible , does store in hardcase like fiio hb1 case + silica gel 1 sachet (about 5gr) in it is enough? i still doubt silica gell is bad for earbud


----------



## HungryPanda

I just keep them in little cases or bags


----------



## cathee

ichtch said:


> how do you guys take care/store of your buds? i have many buds and im only have two ears (lol) when i like one earbuds , other earbuds become unused for long time but i want to keep it as good as possible , does store in hardcase like fiio hb1 case + silica gel 1 sachet (about 5gr) in it is enough? i still doubt silica gell is bad for earbud



i stole one of my gramps cookie tins from fortnum mason and threw some foam inserts in them, really any box will do


----------



## j4100

For Shozy BK and NiceHCK Graphene users, what foams do you use if not the supplied ones? Though I would order some before the earbuds arrive.

Mind you, I was looking at some foams and became very tempted to buy the ourart T17s. It's like an addiction...


----------



## HungryPanda

The Ti7's are rather nice


----------



## ClieOS

JTS WM-42
Plextone X30mw
Plextone X33m
Z&W Panda (PK2S) Balanced





匠音 双动圈平头塞 (dual dynamic)
Toneking Unicorn
调音师 / 宏韵电声 HY1000 (方丈)
Z&W Panda (PK2S)


----------



## gazzington

Anybody tried the black lion earbud from earbuds Thailand?


----------



## mbwilson111

ichtch said:


> how do you guys take care/store of your buds? i have many buds and im only have two ears (lol) when i like one earbuds , other earbuds become unused for long time but i want to keep it as good as possible , does store in hardcase like fiio hb1 case + silica gel 1 sachet (about 5gr) in it is enough? i still doubt silica gell is bad for earbud



These are soft toiletry/travel bags -  £8.99 from Amazon.  Buds and IEMs.  I have a few more that are just in a drawer (but still in little cases).  Not enough for a 3rd bag... and never will be!  https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B06XZ6TJTG/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## kurtextrem

j4100 said:


> For Shozy BK and NiceHCK Graphene users, what foams do you use if not the supplied ones? Though I would order some before the earbuds arrive.
> 
> Mind you, I was looking at some foams and became very tempted to buy the ourart T17s. It's like an addiction...


I use Hiegi donuts on my Stardust. However, I've read in a review that no foams come close to the pair supplied. I don't really know if that's true or not, however I'm quite happy with having clean foams every now and then.


----------



## acap13

j4100 said:


> For Shozy BK and NiceHCK Graphene users, what foams do you use if not the supplied ones? Though I would order some before the earbuds arrive.
> 
> Mind you, I was looking at some foams and became very tempted to buy the ourart T17s. It's like an addiction...


 
To my ears, Monk+ thin foam is the way to go for the Graphene. Other foams especially thicker than that filtered out some of the tiniest details extracted by the Graphene. Probably, if you have a bright source, you would want to wear thick one or at least the stock foams supplied. IMHO


----------



## HungryPanda

I use donuts with my graphene


----------



## waynes world

jogawag said:


> I have received NiceHCK DIY Graphene MX760.
> Now, I will compare 4 of
> TY Hi-Z HP-150s(150s) / NiceHCK Graphene MX760(MX760) / EMX500(EMX500) / NiceHCK PK2s(PK2s).
> 
> ...



Very informative! Thanks.


----------



## ichtch

mbwilson111 said:


> These are soft toiletry/travel bags -  £8.99 from Amazon.  Buds and IEMs.  I have a few more that are just in a drawer (but still in little cases).  Not enough for a 3rd bag... and never will be!  https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B06XZ6TJTG/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Its look amazing, thanks for the link


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> JTS WM-42
> Plextone X30mw
> Plextone X33m
> Z&W Panda (PK2S) Balanced
> ...


Impressions on the PK2S and Unicorn?

How do they compare to Graphene/DIY PK2 and what's the sound signature?

If you're not too busy


----------



## ichtch

acap13 said:


> Speaking of Indonesian earbuds, have anyone tried compared Raven mk2 with something like Edimun V3, Red/Blue Demun, ABnormal, Kanzenoka? Any input would be appreciated..


I only tried sabia anniversary ,sabia v2 and kanzenoka yin yang p1.2 , and i pre ordered abnormal duotress it wil come about 2 weeks, well im not good about impression sabia aniv good at mid and high and at good soundstage, sabia v2 its about bright , yin yang warm forward mid and sweet mid


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 22, 2017)

ichtch said:


> Its look amazing, thanks for the link


You could buy one of these



Maybe an all-clear transparent version for looks. They are very common in DIY stores.


----------



## ichtch

seanc6441 said:


> You could buy one of these
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe an all-clear transparent version for looks. They are very common in DIY stores.


 thats looks nice!!


----------



## seanc6441

ichtch said:


> thats looks nice!!


I'm gonna get something like that myself for my collection, that way it's practical and on display in my room 

Plus you can see what's what without opening every compartment!


----------



## HungryPanda

I have mine in a little flight case:


----------



## wskl

seanc6441 said:


> Impressions on the PK2S and Unicorn?
> 
> How do they compare to Graphene/DIY PK2 and what's the sound signature?
> 
> If you're not too busy



Someone on Earbuds Anonymous did a detailed comparison of the Graphene vs PK2S.  If you don't use Facebook, I will quote it here.


> Graphene MX760 vs PK2S
> 
> Treble: Graphene is a more competent performer and produce some kind of rare attributes in order to extend the brilliance with great resolving power compared to PK2S. Some people however will be having problem with the extension of Graphene thus can opt for the more polite PK2S. The Graphene is more of showing off character whilst PK2S is more of relaxation and engage people in order let it sit down and listen to it all day without having a possibility to ear-fatigue.
> 
> ...


----------



## ichtch

HungryPanda said:


> I have mine in a little flight case:


 that's quite camuflage from my wife lol , very nice


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 22, 2017)

HungryPanda said:


> I have mine in a little flight case:


So ****ing organized. Yuck.

Kidding.

I cannot use the conversive word for monkeys getting it on?  Aww headfi, why be so prude?


----------



## seanc6441

SilverEars said:


> So ****ing organized. Yuck.
> 
> Kidding.
> 
> I cannot use the conversive word for monkeys getting it on?  Aww headfi, why be so prude?


You think that's organised? you should see my level of OCD tidiness when it comes to my prized possessions 

Albeit everything seems to get messed up the next go d d amn day LMAO


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> I have mine in a little flight case:



I have added labels to mine like that too...except for cases that are already labeled by the manufacturer.  I got tired of unzipping them to see what is in them.  I do remember some based on the color of the case.

I think I need to label some of my headphone cases as well.


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> You think that's organised? you should see my level of OCD tidiness when it comes to my prized possessions
> 
> Albeit everything seems to get messed up the next go d d amn day LMAO



Pictures?


----------



## rahmish

gazzington said:


> Matter of interest what are the blue and red demun earphones like and also the raven mk2? I am also wondering about the edimun v3. Do any of you have any information about these.


I like sound of blue De'mun, but cable is very stiff, so if you want to use it on a go, it's very hard and need to use earhooks cause they keep falling off


----------



## rahmish (Oct 22, 2017)

cathee said:


> care to share some impressions?


For me at this moment best Indonesian buds are Willsound mk1, Uairekko custom 32 ohm and Kanzenoka Sawarna, Willsound sound just great with my Zishan Z1(OPA2604)


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Pictures?


It's one of those aforementioned messy moments... My diy'ing got out of hand.

But sure when I've restored order to my desk i'll take a picture


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> Impressions on the PK2S and Unicorn?
> 
> How do they compare to Graphene/DIY PK2 and what's the sound signature?
> 
> If you're not too busy



Going to be travelling for a couple of days. I'll post a short impression once I am back home.


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> Going to be travelling for a couple of days. I'll post a short impression once I am back home.


Thanks mate. Toneking Unicorn has like no impressions so far so it will be great to hear about it


----------



## chinmie

cathee said:


> hey quick q: has anyone tried any of the rholupat earbuds?



I have the Edimun V3, Red demun, and also tried briefly the Dietris, and Blue demun. My earbuds collection's changed quite a lot, but the Edimun and Red demun still stay with me. i just can't find a reason (or replacement) to let them go yet. 



Saoshyant said:


> As far as the Red Demun, I'm probably the only one who's somewhat against the earbud purely due to it's very stiff cable.  For me, I had to anchor it in my ears with hooks to keep it somewhat in place, and even that couldn't keep it flush enough for a seal.  I know a lot of people like it's sound, but for me the cable kept me from enjoying them.





rahmish said:


> I like sound of blue De'mun, but cable is very stiff, so if you want to use it on a go, it's very hard and need to use earhooks cause they keep falling off



my way to "unstiff" my red demun is to unbraid them a little, making the twist looser. also using a chin strap really helps a lot. 



rahmish said:


> For me at this moment best Indonesian buds are Willsound mk1, Uairekko custom 32 ohm and Kanzenoka Sawarna, Willsound sound just great with my Zishan Z1(OPA2604)



from the Willsound line, my favorites are the MK2 and the 300ohm version.the MK1 is too warm for my taste.


----------



## waynes world (Oct 22, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> I'm gonna get something like that myself for my collection, that way it's practical and on display in my room
> 
> Plus you can see what's what without opening every compartment!



Yup. I found one at a thrift store and it's great for da buds! But if I keep hanging out in this thread, I think I'll need that bigger one lol


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 22, 2017)

waynes world said:


> Yup. I found one at a thrift store and it's great for da buds! But if I keep hanging out in this thread, I think I'll need that bigger one lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You'll also need a new room in which to store your storage containers in. In a new building because your home will be over run with earbuds. Infact I think it's best if you start building the underground storage bunker now. Your next DIY project xDDD

Yeah they are great for anything small. I bought one on ebay for €7 with 9 compartments, could buy another if... when I need more room


----------



## waynes world

If you have kids, be prepared for your beloved graphenes to potentially end up looking like this...



 

Thankfully the driver still works, so time to bring out the crazy glue!


----------



## theoutsider

waynes world said:


> If you have kids, be prepared for your beloved graphenes to potentially end up looking like this...
> 
> 
> 
> Thankfully the driver still works, so time to bring out the crazy glue!


maybe your kids were enjoying Graphene when you were not around...


----------



## HiFiChris

My full English review of the Penon Audio BS1 Experience Version earbuds: http://kopfhoerer-lounge.blogspot.c...ence-version-earbuds-review-english.html#more
I think they're really enjoyable even though their visual appearance is a bit boring.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 23, 2017)

Holy *** I never gave my auglamour a chance... until now.

Out of box it sounds thin, congested and lacking any emotion whatsoever.

So I decided to give it another chance... because it's a really well built earbud and it's size is interesting (13.5mm driver?). Plus it had one thing going for it... Clarity and resolution.

Right, so after doing the following my RX1 has become an extremely fun and impressive earbud that's actually worth the money... this is without yet attempting any of the mods i heard of before to help round out the sound. So here's what I did;

1) Burn in for 8 hours (will continue to burn in, but for now just left them overnight to test this morning)

2) Apply 1 monk thin foam. Then apply 1 monk donut over that (very thick, seems thicker than heigi) or heigi if you don't have the monk donuts. It's tough to fit it right at first due to the shape of the bud, but with a bit of patience it'll work.


3) Apply a slight EQ. U shaped with 20% bass boost and 5% treble boost. Like this



The result is a neutral nicely filled out sound. Congestion is eliminated. Roll off isn't as pronounced as I remember, i think the foams are helping bass presence massively (in relation to its complete lack sub bass before and meager mid bass), they actually have a little bit of 'umph' now, not for bassheads though I must add.

The sound is still mid centric, but now it's not 'mids only' and can actually satisfy most tracks with some bass and a polite but detailed treble. Little bit of sparkle in there too in the mids, which the least rolled off part of the bud.

Soundstage is still intimate, not very big but it's got respectable imaging and separation is decent too. Despite its compact sound, it no longer feels congested.

These buds were going to be put away and forgotton about, but now I'm going to give them to a family member because they get my approval and sound much much better than earpods which every non audiophile is using )


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> If you have kids, be prepared for your beloved graphenes to potentially end up looking like this...



That is just too sad to put a like on.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Anybody want to give me a hand and tell me how to reach out to Uairekko? He's not responding to Facebook PM and email for a month since payment, and he owes me some earbuds.


----------



## rahmish

ctaxxxx said:


> Anybody want to give me a hand and tell me how to reach out to Uairekko? He's not responding to Facebook PM and email for a month since payment, and he owes me some earbuds.


This is strange, he responded to me last month, maybe you need to try again?


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 23, 2017)

HiFiChris said:


> My full English review of the Penon Audio BS1 Experience Version earbuds: http://kopfhoerer-lounge.blogspot.c...ence-version-earbuds-review-english.html#more
> I think they're really enjoyable even though their visual appearance is a bit boring.


I have this earbud and the tomahawk and agree with most of what you said. I find the BS1 to be neutral opposed to the slightly cold sounding tomahawk, especially on vocals. Soundstage is noticeably less than tomahawk though. It's still wide but no real depth to it in comparison to the super soundstage of the tomahawks.

One thing I'll disagree on is the treble being polite, there seems to be a certain peak up top that makes some treble beats quite noticeable, whereas the tomahawk whilst overall being brighter, is consistent with the top end and thus more manageable.

The looks are to each their own, I find them subtle and mature looking, nice contrast of all black and silver. Cable we can agree is just awesome!

Overall it's a good buy, but it's mostly for acoustic and pop music I feel. It can also handle some instrumental too, just not the atmospheric music which requires more depth of sound.

I do like how it tries to convey a balanced sound, not over emphasising the mids too much yet still being a a vocal emphasised performer with solid but not overly forward vocals.


----------



## HiFiChris

seanc6441 said:


> One thing I'll disagree on is the treble being polite, there seems to be a certain peak up top that makes some treble beats quite noticeable, whereas the tomahawk whilst overall being brighter, is consistent with the top end and thus more manageable.



In my ears, there is only a gradual incline from 1 towards 5 kHz, but no peak above - unless you are referring exactly to the 5 kHz elevation (you could use a sine generator to see where the peaks are located when the earbuds are in your ears since due to individually different ear anatomy and fit with earbuds, the intensity and location of some treble peaks might of course vary).
Either way it's a great earbud, and I don't only think it is nice on the objective side, but I also really really like it subjectively (even though I don't like how it looks and the lack of a better side indicator). It just conveys a well-done tuning that lets you sink in. I agree though, large orchestral ensembles might require a bit more spatial expansion, depth and separation.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 23, 2017)

HiFiChris said:


> In my ears, there is only a gradual incline from 1 towards 5 kHz, but no peak above - unless you are referring exactly to the 5 kHz elevation (you could use a sine generator to see where the peaks are located when the earbuds are in your ears since due to individually different ear anatomy and fit with earbuds, the intensity and location of some treble peaks might of course vary).
> Either way it's a great earbud, and I don't only think it is nice on the objective side, but I also really really like it subjectively (even though I don't like how it looks and the lack of a better side indicator). It just conveys a well-done tuning that lets you sink in. I agree though, large orchestral ensembles might require a bit more spatial expansion, depth and separation.


I was using the left in right ear and right in left ear for a week because somehow when testing it in windows 10 (because I saw no RL indicators) I mixed them up in my hands and applied red/blue tape on the wrong sides lol... it was only when I played a track which I knew had a certain beat in one ear did I realise it was the wrong way around lol.

As for the peak I didn't have equipment to check it so maybe it's less so a peak and more a lack of roll off and a sensitive frequency to my ears? Either way it isn't a terrible one, just I noticed it more than on my tomahawk.

Also the tomahawk has a more lush instrumental sound thus handling anything non vocal better than the BS1. If you could combine the best qualities of both you would have a pretty amazing mid-budget earbud.

Tomahawks performed better out of my PC as a source and were not too impressive on my iphone 6s. The BS1 seemed to perform at a resonably equal level out of both.


----------



## CharlesRievone

ctaxxxx said:


> Anybody want to give me a hand and tell me how to reach out to Uairekko? He's not responding to Facebook PM and email for a month since payment, and he owes me some earbuds.


I'll try to see what I can do man. Will let you know.


----------



## ctaxxxx

rahmish said:


> This is strange, he responded to me last month, maybe you need to try again?



I have several times. I've always had trouble with contacting him during the whole exchange (weeks between replies)... Asked him for an alternate communication method as well, but he never gave one.



CharlesRievone said:


> I'll try to see what I can do man. Will let you know.



Thanks. I just never received a confirmation on whether he even shipped the buds. No tracking number or anything.


----------



## DBaldock9

300 pages back in this thread, there was some discussion about the Celebrat Mantis C7 earbuds.
During the time they were available from AliExpress, I ordered a set.

They've been sitting in my case, unused for awhile - so I pulled them out this past weekend, and connected them to my iFi Micro iDSD, listening to music streamed from my Roku 4.

Their sound is a bit warm, with a slightly elevated upper-Bass / lower-Mid-Bass, which I thinks sounds good with acoustic music and vocals.
They don't have the Bass impact of the Svara L ($54 promo price), or the more forward Midrange of the Qian39 ($6.13) - but I do like their overall sound, for ~$13.

While they aren't on AliExpress any longer, they are available from Amazon - https://smile.amazon.com/Celebrat-Earphones-Headphones-Ergonomic-Microphone/dp/B06XDMRSQ4/


----------



## alex5908

vladstef said:


> So, I ended up putting my babies for sale today. EMX500 made my Meze 99s obsolete.


How much do you want for them?


----------



## ChrisGoatpher

Howzit Head-fi? This is Christian Climaco from the Earbuds Anonymous fb page subbing to this thread


----------



## golov17

ChrisGoatpher said:


> Howzit Head-fi? This is Christian Climaco from the Earbuds Anonymous fb page subbing to this thread


Hi Christian


----------



## alex5908

vladstef said:


> So, I ended up putting my babies for sale today. EMX500 made my Meze 99s obsolete.


What is the exact model of EMX500? Is it Hungrui, or Fengru or something else? Can I get a link to buy them from?


----------



## ChrisGoatpher

golov17 said:


> Hi Christian


Nice seeing you here Uncle Oleg


----------



## alex5908

jogawag said:


> You should buy from the shop that has the most EMX500 Orders. (However, it is forbidden to write the name or link of that shop.)


Could you pm me?


----------



## seanc6441

Well I picked up the Stardust and Cygnus at a fair price (€120 and €33 respectively). One for home use, one for on the go.

I'll provide some comparisions and whether I think Stardust is worth the extra $$$. Plus I'll compare both our of my PC (decently powerful source) and my iphone to test whether it's worth the upgrade to stardust for mobile users.

The shell alone makes me happy about this purchase, Yuin shell is unbelievably comfortable for anyone I feel. Plus if it's an upgrade on DIY PK2 (Cygnus... of course Stardust is lol) then I'll be extremely happy as I love my PK2.

Now I know I've overspent on earbuds lately but hear me out... I'm giving away 3 earbuds to family members who badly needed to discover what good sound is after being subjected to cheapo phone buds for too long lol. Makes more sense to give these cheap buds to family rather than sell them as the profit wouldn't be so great factoring in shipping and second hand. Plus it's nice to give gifts.

Penon BS1 (left) and DIY PK2 (right). One for a pop/acoustical and ocasional soul music lover (the BS1) and one for a avid rock music fan (DIY PK2)




I'll be left with Masya for instrumental, Soundtrack/atmospheric music, Stardust for everything else and Cygnus for outside use. Still unsure where the DIY Graphene will fit in, but I'll definitely use it if I enjoy the sound.

Only thing I didn't consider is using the Cygnus outdoors,  that green cable will definitely be a sight to behold... LOL. On second thought's maybe the DIY Graphene will be my outdoors earbud


----------



## Danneq

Congratulations on the Shozy buds! I sold my Cygnus but will keep Stardust forever...

BTW, how do you manage to keep your collection so small? I struggle to stay under 20 pairs. 

BTW I no longer own DIY PK2. I let my wife try (in this order) Yincrow RW-777, Moondrop Nameless, Graphene and DIY PK2. She didn't like Yincrow, Nameless was better, Graphene even better and DIY PK2 was the best to her. So now she's got them to replace her black darth Monk+.


----------



## xavierng1

seanc6441 said:


> Well I picked up the Stardust and Cygnus at a fair price (€120 and €33 respectively). One for home use, one for on the go.
> 
> I'll provide some comparisions and whether I think Stardust is worth the extra $$$. Plus I'll compare both our of my PC (decently powerful source) and my iphone to test whether it's worth the upgrade to stardust for mobile users.
> 
> ...



Hey it is me, your brother loljk. Do enjoy your earbuds! Stardust is also on my wishlist  I hope to get hold of one soon


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 24, 2017)

Danneq said:


> Congratulations on the Shozy buds! I sold my Cygnus but will keep Stardust forever...
> 
> BTW, how do you manage to keep your collection so small? I struggle to stay under 20 pairs.
> 
> BTW I no longer own DIY PK2. I let my wife try (in this order) Yincrow RW-777, Moondrop Nameless, Graphene and DIY PK2. She didn't like Yincrow, Nameless was better, Graphene even better and DIY PK2 was the best to her. So now she's got them to replace her black darth Monk+.



I keep my collection small because I'm only in this game for 3-4 months lol. If you consider I've bought maybe 9-10 earbuds within that space of time. I've gone mental DD

Plus some of my cheaper buds (monk/vido) were test dummies for modding and stuff, so currently they aren't useable. Then I'm giving away my RX1, DIY PK2 and BS1. All of them are good but I'll especially miss my  DIY PK2if Cygnus/stardust can't replicate it's sound, but I have a feeling cygnus will share similar traits as I've heard it's got that energy in it, whereas stardust is a little more refined.

Of course I had logic to my spending, I needed to find out what sound signature suited me. I will settle down now if Shozy Stardust becomes my perfect sound, which I think it has a good chance of doing. Rose Masya didn't really satisfy that task, for a vocal earbud it's surprisingly lacking in vocal body. But It's pretty epic for instrumental stuff as it can handle all sorts of complex music and has a good presence in all area's.


PK2 is a special earbud if you burn it in for over 100 hours and use the right source/foams and tame the treble with EQing. I'm handing it off with a ve monk thin foam and a ve monk thin foam cut into donut on top. Treble is abit much (only with full donut you can tame it fully) but the clarity is not sacrificed too much this way. You need EQ to fully tame treble but once you do you'll be happy that it's treble is so nice. It just suffers from slighty congested vocals sometimes and a bit lacking in sub bass. But it's forward intimate soundstage and the power it brings to your ears even from mobile sourse is awesome. Soundstage gets better with more powerful source. On my PC it sounds quiet brilliant. I only recommend this earbud for acoustic/rock music. It couldn't be any more suited to this genre which doesn't require massive amounts of sub bass and benefits from a more full/energetic sound. It's easily my most impressive earbud for what it's good at, guitar and drums



Listening to that on spotify through my PC and my DIY PK2 and every note just bounces... It's like the music isn't just playing but it's alive  It's not got the sub bass when AB testing the same track on my Masya, it also doesn't have the same soundstage, but the guitar plucking is just as sublime, there's more warmth and emotion to each note (except the bass region though). Overall Masya is superior but the DIY PK2 is just as enjoyable for most tracks, and more so for rock and some acoustic.

EMX500 whilst technically superior in some aspects, can't touch the happy feeling I get listening to DIY PK2. EMX500 is so detailed that it's actually I little bit harsh because it's got detailing of almost €100 earbud but without the refinement. Not to say it's not good, it's damn good.. but not my cup of tea, vocals are not forward enough, there's extreme detail which translates to some nice extended sparkle but it's just not an exciting sparkle for me.

I'm hoping the Graphene will show me that DIY PK2 isn't the best budget(ish) earbud, because so far to me it is.


----------



## ChrisGoatpher

seanc6441 said:


> Well I picked up the Stardust and Cygnus at a fair price (€120 and €33 respectively). One for home use, one for on the go.
> 
> I'll provide some comparisions and whether I think Stardust is worth the extra $$$. Plus I'll compare both our of my PC (decently powerful source) and my iphone to test whether it's worth the upgrade to stardust for mobile users.
> 
> ...



Looking forward to the comparison. I love the Cygnus!


----------



## golov17 (Oct 24, 2017)

The past greatness .. cm7 and mx580


----------



## notamethlab

Hi everyone haven't been on this thread in a while. Still using the edimun v3, yinman 150 & 500 and loving them. 

I come here asking for some help regarding earbuds for gaming. I currently use my monk+ but I am looking for an upgrade. Here's the catch though, it must have a microphone. I was looking at the edifier h180 and vido. If anyone has some suggestions I would really appreciate it.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 24, 2017)

notamethlab said:


> Hi everyone haven't been on this thread in a while. Still using the edimun v3, yinman 150 & 500 and loving them.
> 
> I come here asking for some help regarding earbuds for gaming. I currently use my monk+ but I am looking for an upgrade. Here's the catch though, it must have a microphone. I was looking at the edifier h180 and vido. If anyone has some suggestions I would really appreciate it.


Maybe
http://s.aliexpress.com/JnueYn2m

EMX500 has big soundstage, lots of detail, extends really well with strong bass and sub bass which is probably very nice for gaming. Also has good mids and highs which extend and are very detailed.

Clarity is good also for VOIP. Don't know about microphone quality but it's probably decent.

Only issue is some units are known to distort on one side so some average quality control.

It's only €8 which is nice though, worth a shot I reckon, if it's the same as NiceHCK version it's a great choice. Seems to be the same.

Sound sig is slightly U shaped, for music it's slightly recessed vocals but for gaming you won't notice that.

It's brighter than Monk Plus so you probably would want to use it with full foams coming from the more dark sounding monk plus. EMX500 should perform wayyyy better for gaming though. Sound with foams is nice and full and will make the games atmospheric sounding.

Other sellers have it too if you search in aliexpress for 'EMX500', make sure to choose MIC version. Seller #2 has a straight jack MIC version but he shall not be named here. The others are L shaped jack/different cable.


----------



## DBaldock9

notamethlab said:


> Hi everyone haven't been on this thread in a while. Still using the edimun v3, yinman 150 & 500 and loving them.
> 
> I come here asking for some help regarding earbuds for gaming. I currently use my monk+ but I am looking for an upgrade. Here's the catch though, it must have a microphone. I was looking at the edifier h180 and vido. If anyone has some suggestions I would really appreciate it.



You have several options - if you consider the earbuds that have MMCX connectors, since you can use a cable with a mic when you need it, or without a mic if you don't need one.

AliExpress has cables with MMCX and a Mic, for prices ranging from ~$5.60 up to more than $50.

The lowest priced earbud I know of, with MMCX, is the **** PT15 ($10 - $20).  The new (2017) model has a good, balanced sound.
The other earbuds I've got (with MMCX), start at around $46, and go up from there.
Penon Audio has at least 2 different models (1 with 3 different impedances available) that are $50 - $56.
Other brands go up to at least the $145 range.


----------



## HungryPanda

Svara L, music, gaming, change of cable, chick magnet..... Check


----------



## Saoshyant

HungryPanda said:


> Svara L, music, gaming, change of cable, chick magnet..... Check



Not properly driven by controller if console gaming


----------



## notamethlab

HungryPanda said:


> Svara L, music, gaming, change of cable, chick magnet..... Check


They look nice indeed, that price is out of my price range unfortunately.


----------



## notamethlab

seanc6441 said:


> Maybe
> http://s.aliexpress.com/JnueYn2m
> 
> EMX500 has big soundstage, lots of detail, extends really well with strong bass and sub bass which is probably very nice for gaming. Also has good mids and highs which extend and are very detailed.
> ...


 Awesome Thanks for the rec, I'll make sure to look into it.


----------



## eaglesgift

Saoshyant said:


> Not properly driven by controller if console gaming





notamethlab said:


> They look nice indeed, that price is out of my price range unfortunately.


But they're chick magnets!!! Come on guys, get with the program!


----------



## j4100

I'm a week into the wait for my Shozy BKs and Graphenes (and the seahf 150). I'm not cut out for waiting 20-40 days shipping. Every day that goes by, I get tempted to order another pair. My brain says "save your money for a moondrop liebesleid" and my heart says "buy 'em all". You lot are not helping either.


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> I'm a week into the wait for my Shozy BKs and Graphenes (and the seahf 150). I'm not cut out for waiting 20-40 days shipping. Every day that goes by, I get tempted to order another pair. My brain says "save your money for a moondrop liebesleid" and my heart says "buy 'em all". You lot are not helping either.



...and that is how I ended up getting a dozen buds in just under two months.  I bought a Monk from Amazon at the end up August.  Then I started ordering things from Aliexpress. Some of those took forever... like 5 weeks... so during the wait, I kept adding others... and waiting and waiting.  Finally the last one arrived last week... my PK2.  I am now finished!   No more iems (the last two arrived yesterday) and no more headphones... way too many headphones. Sadly I only have two ears and time is finite.

I like all that I  have but I will say that the three that have the Monk housing are a bit of a problem fit for me.  They fall out occasionally.  I cannot at this time do any comparisons as I have not had enough individual time with any of them and I don't really know how to do comparisons.  I can with headphones but not iems or buds... yet. Actually I hate to do comparisons because trying to listen and compare just ruins my enjoyment of my music.  I tend to get lost in the music (for hours and hours) and forget I am supposed to compare.

This is my little collection.
Auglamour RX1
Boarseman MX98 - red
Langsdom F9 earpods - rose gold
Moondrop Nameless
NiceHCK DIY PK2 - black with white cable
PMV B01 Aoede
Qian39
Qian 69 - white
RY04
**** PT15 (graphene driver)
TY Hi-Z AWK-314P
VE Monk+ coffee
**** Z&W - gold (copper really)


----------



## Saoshyant

Use the budget range to figure out what you're after, then study the reviews and ask questions for your top end purchases.


----------



## mbwilson111

Saoshyant said:


> Use the budget range to figure out what you're after, then study the reviews and ask questions for your top end purchases.



or, just be happy with what you have found in the budget range   None of mine are above $30 ...taking sales into account.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> ...and that is how I ended up getting a dozen buds in just under two months.  I bought a Monk from Amazon at the end up August.  Then I started ordering things from Aliexpress. Some of those took forever... like 5 weeks... so during the wait, I kept adding others... and waiting and waiting.  Finally the last one arrived last week... my PK2.  I am now finished!   No more iems (the last two arrived yesterday) and no more headphones... way too many headphones. Sadly I only have two ears and time is finite.
> 
> I like all that I  have but I will say that the three that have the Monk housing are a bit of a problem fit for me.  They fall out occasionally.  I cannot at this time do any comparisons as I have not had enough individual time with any of them and I don't really know how to do comparisons.  I can with headphones but not iems or buds... yet. Actually I hate to do comparisons because trying to listen and compare just ruins my enjoyment of my music.  I tend to get lost in the music (for hours and hours) and forget I am supposed to compare.
> 
> ...



And your favourite three are?


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> And your favourite three are?



Whichever ones are on my ears (without falling out) as long as the music is good  ...and I do have good music!  As I am an album listener, I just get lost in the music.  At the moment I have some headphones on

Seriously... I can't even pick my favorite three headphones and I have many.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 25, 2017)

mbwilson111 said:


> or, just be happy with what you have found in the budget range   None of mine are above $30 ...taking sales into account.


Well it really is a trade off. Do you buy 1-2 TOTL earbuds for pure music enjoyment, but miss out of the fun that is discovering now budget earbuds that surprise you with their SQ...

I started buying budgets but then I realised  buying 5 budgets earbuds for €10-15 each isn't actually saving me much as opposed to buying 1 TOTL. Of course the 'pros' are that you have variety of choice and if one gets damaged it's not the end of the world,.

Aside from being a smart consumer and buying only what you can afford obviously, I reckon the best options is to start low, find the soun signature in a bugdet earbud that you love the most, then ask the community what's the TOTL or a higher quality equivalent of that budget earbud.

Personally I don't think I'd spend any more than €150 on an earbud ever in my life. At the end of the day like any earbud it can get damaged, dropped in water, develop a fault and unless you're made of money it isn't worth the risk. So when I bought the stardust I had already worked out that's the maximum price I'd be spending on an eabud once off in the foreseeable future. I'll still buy budget earbuds, and maybe down the line I'll buy the next shozy/rose or another totl earbud that comes out but for now I'll take it easy.

Saying that I really want the audioquest dragonfly black for my iphone 6s... because I don't want to buy a separate DAP/AMP but I want the stardust to have an appropriate source. HMMM, this is really an addiction isn't it LOL


----------



## seanc6441

Heads up someone is selling a pair of VE ZEN 2.0 in the FS section for €70... Seem's like a steal? I don't have money to buy it at the moment but that price just seems too low right?...


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> HMMM, this is realy an addiction isn't it LOL



Exactly...and that is why I am trying to break it.  I love being surprised by how great the less expensive stuff is.  I also like picking up something that I have neglected for awhile and rediscovering it.  I  had kind of given up on the headphones that are on my head at the moment because of comfort issues that I think now I have managed to sort it by bending the headband and changing the pads.

I hope to do the same with the three buds I own that have the Monk housing (Monk, Boarseman, ****) .  Surely there is a way to keep them in my ear.  I hate spending 10 minutes trying to seat them just so I can listen to something.  Easier to use something else instead.  But I love them when they are in right.  I have to admit though that those three are the ones I chose because I liked the color... and I will not put foams on them that clash with them colorwise.  LOL

Maybe I have to stretch my ears?

They say you can break a behavioural  addiction by stopping for 3 weeks.  Would that mean not buying anything for three weeks or would one have to stay away from this site for three weeks?


----------



## theoutsider (Oct 25, 2017)

j4100 said:


> I'm a week into the wait for my Shozy BKs and Graphenes (and the seahf 150). I'm not cut out for waiting 20-40 days shipping. Every day that goes by, I get tempted to order another pair. My brain says "save your money for a moondrop liebesleid" and my heart says "buy 'em all". You lot are not helping either.


your soul speaks from deep inside you: buy Liebesleid, buy Mojito and buy everything else...


----------



## mbwilson111

cursing said:


> your soul speaks from deep inside you: buy Liebesleid, buy Mojito and buy everything else...



You are a bad bad person!  lol


----------



## teesui

j4100 said:


> I'm a week into the wait for my Shozy BKs and Graphenes (and the seahf 150). I'm not cut out for waiting 20-40 days shipping. Every day that goes by, I get tempted to order another pair. My brain says "save your money for a moondrop liebesleid" and my heart says "buy 'em all". You lot are not helping either.



This is why I am sort of glad I had to replace my car and am showing more self-control for my audio-spending.


----------



## theoutsider (Oct 25, 2017)

mbwilson111 said:


> They say you can break a behavioural  addiction by stopping for 3 weeks.  Would that mean not buying anything for three weeks or would one have to stay away from this site for three weeks?


You can always check yourself into an earbud rehab center but I dunno why you want to do that?

The key to being happy isn't a search for meaning. It's to keep yourself high on the ongoing earbud purchases, and eventually, you'll be dead...

#nihilistic audiophile


----------



## mbwilson111

cursing said:


> You can always check yourself into an earbud rehab center but I dunno why you want to do that?



Do they let you bring all your earbuds?


----------



## CharlesRievone

seanc6441 said:


> Maybe
> http://s.aliexpress.com/JnueYn2m
> ...
> Other sellers have it too if you search in aliexpress for 'EMX500', make sure to choose MIC version. Seller #2 has a straight jack MIC version but he shall not be named here. The others are L shaped jack/different cable.





notamethlab said:


> Awesome Thanks for the rec, I'll make sure to look into it.



Here's a cheaper option, RY4S: 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4...e-MX500-style-earphone-3-5mm/32797581820.html

Basically the same units as those from Hangrui, for half the price. Been using it as my "commute" buds for months now. Still works.


----------



## j4100

teesui said:


> This is why I am sort of glad I had to replace my car and am showing more self-control for my audio-spending.



Ouch! Painful way of calling a halt to Audio spending.


----------



## gazzington

So far my fav office metal listening earbuds have been Seahf AWK-F64. If I am willing to spend over £100 What would be a great upgrade for these. Stardust, Zen 2 or are there even better. I gen use a fiio x5iii with a fiio a5 amp


----------



## waynes world

cursing said:


> You can always check yourself into an earbud rehab center but I dunno why you want to do that?
> The key to being happy isn't a search for meaning.* It's to keep yourself high on the ongoing earbud purchases, and eventually, you'll be dead...*
> #nihilistic audiophile



... and if you're lucky, with your favorite buds in your ears


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Well it really is a trade off. Do you buy 1-2 TOTL earbuds for pure music enjoyment, but miss out of the fun that is discovering now budget earbuds that surprise you with their SQ...
> 
> I started buying budgets but then I realised  buying 5 budgets earbuds for €10-15 each isn't actually saving me much as opposed to buying 1 TOTL. Of course the 'pros' are that you have variety of choice and if one gets damaged it's not the end of the world,.
> 
> ...



Everything you say if perfect.... in theory.  Just admit it - you're toast lol.


----------



## 93EXCivic

It kills me to admit it but I don't know that the CF2s are going to work out for me simply because of the fit, the housings fatigue my ears to the point where I can only listen for an hour or two at a time. The sound amazing but the comfort isn't there. 

Next up for me are the Shozy BKs. I also want to try the Yinman 600 ohm because I still love my 150s but 600ohms is a lot to drive without a desktop setup.


----------



## Saoshyant

The Yinman 600 can be perceived as having a boring sound vs CF2.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 25, 2017)

waynes world said:


> Everything you say if perfect.... in theory.  Just admit it - you're toast lol.


Indeed I was the second I bought the monk + and thought "oh wow these sound nice for €5... or €10... or  €15".

I spent 5 years listening to music through Earpods...Let that sink in. I think my ears deserved better. Actually before I bought the monk I was almost forced down the IEM line because I didn't know about this site/forum and when I googled 'best budget hifi EARBUD' all I got was a list of stupid IEM's (nothing against IEM's, they just hurt my ears and aren't comfortable at all for me). So naturally I assumed that Earbuds were dead, not even considered in the hifi scene. But I remembered a few years ago I had a Sennheiser MX365 and I remembered liking it more than the earpod but I lost it I think. So with that I searched further and finally stumbled across this site. Never looked back since.


----------



## seanc6441

93EXCivic said:


> It kills me to admit it but I don't know that the CF2s are going to work out for me simply because of the fit, the housings fatigue my ears to the point where I can only listen for an hour or two at a time. The sound amazing but the comfort isn't there.
> 
> Next up for me are the Shozy BKs. I also want to try the Yinman 600 ohm because I still love my 150s but 600ohms is a lot to drive without a desktop setup.



I got really lucky in the fact that the week I decided to buy the stardust it was listed on FS section as used but only two month old for €120 total, not bad at all.

Then next day it so happens someone listed Cygnus used but in very good condition (albeit the enevitable cable oxidation green effect). It was for €33 total. A very good deal!

So what could I do but buy both and wait in anticipation. I'll let you know what I think and how the sound is as best as I can describe it.


----------



## henree

I have only had Monster Turbine Copper. And Sennheiser Momentum in ear. The turbine from what I remember were great sounding. The momentum are a little muddy on the bass. Is there a a good earbud under $300 that can combine the strengths of these two models above into one package? Or better yet, manage the sound of the HE-400 planar magnetic heaphones into an earbud package?


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 25, 2017)

henree said:


> I have only had Monster Turbine Copper. And Sennheiser Momentum in ear. The turbine from what I remember were great sounding. The momentum are a little muddy on the bass. Is there a a good earbud under $300 that can combine the strengths of these two models above into one package? Or better yet, manage the sound of the HE-400 planar magnetic heaphones into an earbud package?


Are you looking for an earbud or an IEM (in ear monitor). Because this thread is about the earbuds that sit against your ears but don't go into your ear canals. I ask because you mentioned two IEM's above.

Speaking of planar magnetic technology though, check out the Audeze Isine 10. If you don't mind it's design looks (looks like on ear headphone that you clip on), it's apparently a planar magnetic IEM which has amazing sound quality like a full size planar headphone. Check out Z reviews on youtube he reviewed it, and bought it at a hifi event after saying it was only the audeze isine 10/20 and the SENNHEISER ORPHEUS (best headphones in the world)  that impressed him the most.

So if you want an IEM that has endgame sound maybe look that, i think it's 299 or 399 though, not sure.

If it's an earbud your after, let us know more details about what sound you like (balanced/V shaped/U shaped etc) and if you prefer warm sound or neutral sound.


----------



## Saoshyant

seanc6441 said:


> Are you looking for an earbud or an IEM (in ear monitor). Because this thread is about the earbuds that sit against your ears but don't go into your ear canals. I ask because you mentioned two IEM's above.
> 
> Speaking of planar magnetic technology though, check out the Audeze Isine 10. If you don't mind it's design looks (looks like on ear headphone that you clip on), it's apparently a planar magnetic IEM which has amazing sound quality like a full size planar headphone. Check out Z reviews on youtube he reviewed it, and bought it at a hifi event after saying it was only the audeze isine 10/20 and the SENNHEISER ORPHEUS (best headphones in the world)  that impressed him the most.
> 
> So if you want an IEM that has endgame sound maybe look that, i think it's 299 or 399 though, not sure.



I haven't tried the iSine, but tried the M300, which was quite uncomfortable.  I've heard the iSine is similar in this respect.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 25, 2017)

Saoshyant said:


> I haven't tried the iSine, but tried the M300, which was quite uncomfortable.  I've heard the iSine is similar in this respect.


I don't know much about IEM's but the guy reviewing it is experienced in hifi sound and he said it was pretty incredible. Comfort wise aren't all IEM's horrible?  jkjk, it's not a CIEM though so I guess for some it won't be great.

I do know about the Andromeda because it's raved about in the IEM scene though, probably compareable performance just different technologies.


----------



## seanc6441

what a coincidence someone just listed the isine 20 for €699 in FS lol

oh and btw isine 10 is like $399 so maybe abit much...


----------



## Saoshyant

I only bring this up because the M300 is the most uncomfortable IEM I've ever tried, which has pretty much written off the iSines for now.  I should rephrase as uncomfortable isn't the appropriate term, painful is.


----------



## seanc6441

Saoshyant said:


> I only bring this up because the M300 is the most uncomfortable IEM I've ever tried, which has pretty much written off the iSines for now.  I should rephrase as uncomfortable isn't the appropriate term, painful is.



Ouch.. literally lol


----------



## waynes world (Oct 25, 2017)

waynes world said:


> If you have kids, be prepared for your beloved graphenes to potentially end up looking like this...
> 
> 
> 
> Thankfully the driver still works, so time to bring out the crazy glue!



I felt that something was missing in my life. I was listless. Agitated. Just "off".

I then realized that it was because I needed to listen to my beloved graphenes again. So I was forced to get off my butt, find some glue, and get going on the very important yet technical modding job of fixing them. As I was about to apply some glue, it dawned on me that they might just click back together.

Click.

Job well done - master-modder strikes again lol!



Spoiler: Graphenes back in ears, and all is well in waynes world once again!


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> I felt that something was missing in my life. I was listless. Agitated. Just "off".
> 
> I then realized that it was because I needed to listen to my beloved graphenes again. So I was forced to get off my butt, find some glue, and get going on the very important yet technical modding job of fixing them. As I was about to apply some glue, it dawned on me that they might just click back together.
> 
> ...



I am in awe of your skills


----------



## ichtch

My pk2 diy has arrived today and it quite similiar sound like nameless but with better high imo the mid of diy pk2 still doesnt close similiar sound with shozy cygnus to me , does it any other earbud it sound like cygnus but with low price?


----------



## ChrisGoatpher

ichtch said:


> My pk2 diy has arrived today and it quite similiar sound like nameless but with better high imo the mid of diy pk2 still doesnt close similiar sound with shozy cygnus to me , does it any other earbud it sound like cygnus but with low price?


You get what you pay for.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 26, 2017)

ichtch said:


> My pk2 diy has arrived today and it quite similiar sound like nameless but with better high imo the mid of diy pk2 still doesnt close similiar sound with shozy cygnus to me , does it any other earbud it sound like cygnus but with low price?


Remember the DIY PK2 needs a looong burn in. The mids are excellent, but I think the vocals can be it's weak point on ocasion. Not pushing through enough clarity with it's warm and full sounding presentation.

Also to get the most clarity out of mine, whilst keeping some nice bass with a good seal, I'm using 1 monk thin foam and 1 monk thin cut donut foam over it. The sound balance is excellent... Although you do have to like treble as it can be quiet trebley in this configuration! But again, the vocals I just wish they were more clearly defined beside the energetic mids and treble.

For sure though that a full foam or thick donut foam will reduce it's clarity in vocals as it doesn't have too much to begin with.


----------



## j4100

I thought I would ask a few questions here, as answers in the help area are hard to get at times. All with regard to earbud listening, obviously.

Balanced connections. How much difference does having a balanced connection on an earbud make? Is it really worth the difference (often an extra cost for the earbuds, plus cost of balanced output dap)? Obviously I currently have a FiiO X5ii which doesn't have a balanced output and I'm not strongly tempted to replace it just to have a dap with a balanced output. Unless...

Portable amp/dac. I'm still tempted to get one of these, especially is I end up with an earbud that's harder to drive. If I were to get one, I'd probably want to future-proof myself as much as possible and wouldn't mind spending a bit of cash on a good one. This would possibly bring me back to the balanced issue, but also that it would have to be able to happily power a high impedance earbud. I don't see (at first glance, a post in the portable amp/dac section (like this one) covering a range of different devices.

So, since there are a good number of you on here using earbuds with balanced connections and with high impedance earbuds, I would appreciate and value your collective experience and recommendations so I can go do some further research. And then assault the piggy bank.

Cheers!


----------



## chaiyuta

@j4100 : Hope this help. https://twister6.com/category/dap-review/ 

For DAP, If you care too much about future-proof or upgradable by variety of AMP modules.(That means you still can get any XX-mm. balanced ports both Headphone-out and Line-out once they release compatible AMP modules.) There are only two (if I correct) e.g. iBasso DX200 and FiiO X7ii.

For portable amp/dac supporting 2.5mm balanced output, it might be FiiO Q1ii, if you can wait longer then wait for FiiO Q5. FiiO Q5 will be compatible with all FiiO X7 AMP module.


----------



## ctaxxxx (Oct 26, 2017)

j4100 said:


> I thought I would ask a few questions here, as answers in the help area are hard to get at times. All with regard to earbud listening, obviously.
> 
> Balanced connections. How much difference does having a balanced connection on an earbud make? Is it really worth the difference (often an extra cost for the earbuds, plus cost of balanced output dap)? Obviously I currently have a FiiO X5ii which doesn't have a balanced output and I'm not strongly tempted to replace it just to have a dap with a balanced output. Unless...
> 
> ...



Most DAPs should have enough power to drive any earbuds through SE. Then again, I haven't listened to any 600 ohm buds yet.

I'm one of those people who prefer to have smallest chain as possible. Meaning, if I were you, I would just upgrade the X5ii to the X5iii or even X7ii. Having an additional portable DAC/AMP is annoying for on the go.

For balanced output, it mainly depends on the implementation for me. DX200's BAL out tends to be an improvement in sound quality of their SE. Especially for their AMP3 module which is BAL only. If you interested in power alone, BAL is a good option as well, but they are releasing AMP5 (SE only) soon, which should be just as, or more powerful, than AMP3 (which can drive my full sized headphones with ease).

Honestly, I would buy a high impedance earbud first and see if your X5ii can drive it well. If it does, there is no need to upgrade.


----------



## theoutsider

waynes world said:


> Everything you say if perfect.... in theory.  Just admit it - you're toast lol.


you roast


----------



## mochill

Hisoundaudio sp earbud on penon audio


----------



## waynes world

mochill said:


> Hisoundaudio sp earbud on penon audio



I like what I'm reading (and they are inexpensive). Have you heard them?

*Description*

_It applies the hand picking fine paring drivers. We also specially developed with the hi fi grade 6OFC cable to match with the excellent drivers._
_The sound signature of SP earbud is the thickness sound with really instruments texture._
_SP Earbuds have good wide and deep soundstage, which makes it has the very nature music reproduction. The surrounding music comes through the out ear into the in ear naturally._
_It is very comfortable and suitable for long time listening._


----------



## mochill

Just saw it on penon audio, didn't hear thm though, seem like a great earbud.


----------



## bonson

Description for hisoundfi sp model is convincing but it is the exact same description for the older hisoundfi pro earbuds.


----------



## Saoshyant

ctaxxxx said:


> Most DAPs should have enough power to drive any earbuds through SE. Then again, I haven't listened to any 600 ohm buds yet.



The Opus #1 was capable of driving Yinman 600, but frankly it wasn't going full potential.  The sound filled out a bit using a Cayin C5 in the chain.  I'm happy with how 320 ohm earbuds sound with dap-only driving, but never bought any 400 or 500 ohm buds.


----------



## mbwilson111

Saoshyant said:


> The Opus #1 was capable of driving Yinman 600, but frankly it wasn't going full potential.  The sound filled out a bit using a Cayin C5 in the chain.  I'm happy with how 320 ohm earbuds sound with dap-only driving, but never bought any 400 or 500 ohm buds.



I assume you meant 32ohm.  I don't ask my Opus to drive more than 32 ohm by itself.


----------



## Saoshyant

mbwilson111 said:


> I assume you meant 32ohm.  I don't ask my Opus to drive more than 32 ohm by itself.



I am happy with how the Opus drives SeaHF 320 Smart 1.0


----------



## mbwilson111

Saoshyant said:


> I am happy with how the Opus drives SeaHF 320 Smart 1.0



Ah so you did mean 320 ohm... I did not realize that 320 was a thing... I know there are 15, 300 and 600.  I guess I thought there were certain standard choices.  I don't think any of my buds are more than 32 ohm.


----------



## jant71 (Oct 26, 2017)

mochill said:


> Just saw it on penon audio, didn't hear thm though, seem like a great earbud.



Looks like they took the ESA-E350 and swapped the flat cable for a different one. Don't think the E350 were that good as far as I know/read. Not sure I trust HSA and the excellent drivers and fine pairing of drivers and all that for $24. They talk and hype their stuff in more recent generations that you can't believe it. Certainly one that needs at least a few real world positives before I start to think it might be good


----------



## waynes world

jant71 said:


> Looks like they took the ESA-E350 and swapped the flat cable for a different one. Don't think the E350 were that good as far as I know/read. Not sure I trust HSA and the excellent drivers and fine pairing of drivers and all that for $24. They talk and hype their stuff in more recent generations that you can't believe it. Certainly one that needs at least a few real world positive before I start to think it might be good



Yup. @mochill, you should take one for the team!


----------



## siderak (Oct 27, 2017)

noknok23 said:


> Who had the chance to listen to the diy blur? Are they hard to drive? They seems very nice.


Blur is the best. Clarity like I've never heard in anything but totl over ear headphones.
I have 2 sets of the 300 ohm but he now has 64 ohm which I will get asap. 
They aren't that hard to drive but sound better with better sources.


----------



## ChrisGoatpher

noknok23 said:


> Who had the chance to listen to the diy blur? Are they hard to drive? They seems very nice.


They benefit from being amped properly.


----------



## acap13

siderak said:


> Blur is the best. Clarity like I've never heard in anything but totl over ear headphones.
> I have 2 sets of the 300 ohm but he now has 64 ohm which I will get asap.
> They aren't that hard to drive but sound better with better sources.



I'm actually quite insterested to hear the positive sides of Blur earbuds because I've heard it before and it was indeed very good. Btw, I heard and saw people talking negative things about the Blur in a weird way. Have you heard those before and what do you think about their findings?


----------



## ChrisGoatpher

acap13 said:


> Btw, I heard and saw people talking negative things about the Blur in a weird way.


Like the guy who said they sound like his $20 K's 300? That was hilarious


----------



## acap13 (Oct 27, 2017)

ChrisGoatpher said:


> Like the guy who said they sound like his $20 K's 300? That was hilarious



That was hilarious indeed. Dont mean to derail the old issue here but the attitude to keep comparing and stress out how comparable his Blur to the $20 K300( which he was actually modded with other pricier cable) made me nauseated. Unfortunately, that is only one part of the equation. Theres another one person PM'ed me his finding about Blur which I found to be as fishy as the first guy did. I smell tuna around. Hope its not another political agenda and solely based on their opinion. Therefore, brought me to my initial question above.


----------



## chaiyuta

Every brands has their own fan loyalty. A lot of people here like DIY Graphene whilst I am not and I already resale it (therefore the person who bought from me he might heard before and like it). A lot of people resale thier Rose Mojito while I already tried and I am going to buy it. If you have DIY skill or have a guy who can do instead of you. You can do tuning&modding with various plug, cable, soldering wire. So I've never feel surprised why the guy who bought Blur stated likes that since he can DIY by trial&error with various things until he get his preference sound.


----------



## 93EXCivic

chaiyuta said:


> Every brands has their own fan loyalty. A lot of people here like DIY Graphene whilst I am not and I already resale it (therefore the person who bought from me he might heard before and like it). A lot of people resale thier Rose Mojito while I already tried and I am going to buy it. If you have DIY skill or have a guy who can do instead of you. You can do tuning&modding with various plug, cable, soldering wire. So I've never feel surprised why the guy who bought Blur stated likes that since he can DIY by trial&error with various things until he get his preference sound.



If the Shozy BK doesn't work out for me, I am going to just buy a crap ton of different drivers, tuning supplies and some PK2 style housings and just build my own earbuds that are perfect for me.


----------



## RyanM

I'll post some reviews that I did of the Blur buds via the Earbuds Anonymous Group on Facebook: 

Review: Blur 64 SPC

People may be want to know the difference between a Top of The Line earbud and a more budget oriented offering. Let's be clear; music is a very intimate experience - far be it for me to tell you what you should prefer, in terms of musical presentation. To my ears, the difference between more expensive earbuds and cheaper is commonly found in spacial representation and fine tuning. With both Blur earbuds, the sense of depth and space is on another level. A level that is not usually achieved in the sub $100 where the push is on tweaking upper treble and eeking as much as possible out of bass extension, likely at the expense of overall fidelity. To be sure, that's not hi-fi. That said, it's okay too. It takes a special type of crazy (see: obsessive compulsive disorder) to be constantly chasing a new sound. Remember, perfection is the enemy of good enough.

The thing about warm earphones is that - if the tuning is not handled with care - it belies the clarity of your listening experience. Sometimes this creates a pleasant experience, however, it's not always an experience that's transferable to all genres of music. So you could say that a warm earphone does not have the same dexterity as a slightly brighter, analytical counterpart. Some older recordings can get a bit muddied by the warmth. Moreover, they aren't as agile in their source pairing, in that a warm source and a warm earphone can lead to the same overall muddy presentation. With that in mind, and already being a proud owner of the original Blur, I'm aware of the magic that can happen when you've achieved ultimate musical clarity. One ever-so-sleight caveat to that statement - the original Blur takes a non-aggressive counter stance on bass. While bass sits in the cut nicely, it's by no means the star of the show. Welcome to audiophile consumer counter culture, where boomy bass is somewhat frowned upon. I'm fine either way to be frank, being a fan of varying genres of music from hip-hop to classical, I have space for varying types of tuning. But, at the time, this did require a slight mental adjustment upon my first few auditions with the Blur. My previous experience with a TOTL earphone was the VE Zen 2 3.5mm balanced, and the presentation of the Blur was quite different. In a nutshell the Blur pulled a pile of details, sounded much airier and spacious, however the Zen sounded bigger, and more akin to an over-ear experience.

With this in mind, when Wong Kuan Wae started posting in Earbuds Anonymous, about a the Blur 64 having more bass (ie different tuning), I was intrigued. To be sure, I didn't necessarily NEED more bass, personally (I wasn't asking for it) but, wierdly, my wallet was ready (not really) and my mind was set (really). A master in full tinkering mode should not be discounted or ignored. Support and spread the word, I say. The Blur 64 SPC is the best earphone I've ever heard, for my preferences. It's not really close, in fact. It's EXACTLY what I was hoping it would be - a slightly warmer experience whilst retaining almost all the clarity of the original Blur. And make no mistake, here we have bass. Let's break it down.

The SPC cable is beautiful and soft and supple with zero microphonics. Does it make a difference to the sound signature? Ask 6 people and they'd probably be split down that middle on that, so let's not. I will say that I've done A/B comparisons between the VE Monk Plus and it's premium Monk Plus SPC variation, and I would bet that I can tell a difference in a blind test. That aside, the Blur 64 retains its signature copper coil splitter, which acts as both an aesthetic signature and a useful weight which is perfectly balanced so as to keep the MX500 shell in your ears while not being heavy enough to be unpleasant over long listening sessions. I believe Wong's wife is responsible for the beautiful handmade leather pouch and we have a variety of foams included, of typical thickness. I'd recommend experimenting with VE thin foams and donuts. For the Blur 64 SPC, I think I've finally settled on single donuts for my preferences.

Bass: The bass is represented with an extremely fast resolving push. There's not a lot of decay, however, the impact is quite profound. It doesn't push into the midrange whatsoever, but the upper treble is rolled slightly (not in a bad way), so the impact from bass could be considered more prominent due to overall tonality. In a subjective way, the midrange and and wonderful treble tuning are still a dominent force in overall presentation, but the impact of the bass is more noticeable than the Blur Ver. 1. The texture of the low end is of a very high quality and responds well to EQ, furthermore.

Treble: The treble is represented perfectly. Whereas the original Blur could be considered as leaning on bright, the presentation here is more musical so to speak and this is likely due to slightly more relaxed treble tuning. Even still, it's relying on upper midrange and prominent lower treble, rather than a sharp upper treble region. Woodwind, piano and guitar is so airy in the presentation, it's almost magical. Organs and such come across as clear and natural. Natural would be the operative word, in general for this presentation. Digital recordings sound more organic than they have any right to. Older rock, like Led Zeppelin sounds fuller and rounder in every senses. Newer, poorly recorded stuff like Arcade Fire sounds more vibrant than I recall it ever sounding. The overall blend of fidelity is resounding.

Migrange/Soundstage: Whereas the midrange clearly take precedence in the original Blur, The Blur 64 SPC leans more towards neutral. Vocals are still front and center but the depth of field is slightly altered. Spacially, the presentation is more of a square than the circle of the original Blur. Panning properties are absolutely outstanding. On "On The Run" by Pink Floyd, there's some sensational panning sound effects that are engulfing me with the Blur 64 SPC. It's almost scrary. To that end, imaging is top notch. Maybe the best I've ever heard. This is God's work.

I don't believe in a whole lot, when it comes to obsessive compulsive audiophile voodoo. Don't get me started on beyond audible transparency files (DSD) for example. Nor do I want to debate the merits of a DAC. I believe in sourcing properly, amping properly and great earphones. With that in mind, I can't help but feel like the Blur 64 is presenting me with how music should sound. And that's that. Happy Listening!


----------



## RyanM

Blur 魔女 Impressions:

Upon hearing the Blur for the first time, I wasn't sure what to make of them. To be honest it required a significant amount of brain burn-in for me. The first music I played - some new Arcade Fire tracks - put an immediate smile on my face, however, when I started playing songs I was much more familier with I became more and more perplexed. They sounded so...different. Not different bad, just different.

Cymbals and guitar riffs appear to be coming at me with a newfound vigor, and if you are used to hearing things tuned as a "Monk Killer" (hint: you are) or a bass monster, then these will take some getting used to. They are detail and clarity monsters, so essentially the polar opposite. Bass is present tight and definitely in the mix, but it's not taking center stage in any sense. To say that I've never heard anything like it would be an understatement. They've challenged me to take everything I know about the familiarities of melodies and music - songs I love and have listened to for decades - and rethink them. The presentation is neutral with an absolutely sublime midrange. Listen to the new remastering of "Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club" and prepare for sound effects that you had no idea were in the songs you've listened to forever. Clarity that will knock you out. It's absolutely magic.

Staging is wild. On "Lovely Rita" by The Beatles, you can literally picture Paul at the front of the stage, you can clearly make out the pianos depth coming from what appears to be behind your head and to the right. During the remastering process for the record it seems like Giles Martin took the right (or left channel) and folded it upon itself, so you can clearly make out two Johns singing harmonies, and two shakers on either side as with Georges guitar. Needless to say, it sounds brilliant.

Where it excels it surpasses the competition and stands far ahead. Classical music, vocal oriented songs would be ideal, however, it's also playing well with jazz and rock to my ears. It's excellent with all strings, percussion and woodwinds. Treble is very well tuned with no sign of sibilence with anything I threw at it. Vocals are perfect and completely addictive. As with all earbuds, experiment with foams/donuts to fine tune the sound for your preferences. I prefer the thick foams as they give a slight boost in midbass whilst rolling the treble a tad.

The Blur comes in 3 flavors at different price points. I won't get into all that except to say that I have the least expensive option. Let's just say that it's priced like a TOTL earbud.

These buds definitely have my seal of approval, however, fair warning - they absolutely require amping as they are 300ohms, but they also appear to be less sensitive than the Zen 2.0 for example. I also noticed that, to my ears, they sound better from a solid state amp than a tube amp. This could be due to their immense detail retrieval ability - tube amps tend to have a loud noise floor.

If you are interested in getting a Blur bud, contact Mr. Wong Kuan Wae, I know that he will be happy to answer any additional questions.


----------



## RyanM

Review: Jim Nicehck DIY Graphene Earbud

With all the recent positive chatter about the NICEHCK Graphene Driver Earbud, I just couldn't help myself and contacted Jim at NiceHCK to send one to me. I'm really happy that I made this decision. This Earbud sits just below the top tier of my collection, right out of the gate. I'm sure my earphone collection is at well over 30 now, so eventually I'll have to have an honest intervention with myself about what I'm actually trying to do, other than delay retirement. That aside, here's my take on the DIY Graphene MX760 (*note: name varies from seller-to-seller).

This is my first earbud with this type of shell and I'm liking the results. To that end, it may be improperly labelled MX760 by certain sellers because the original Sennheiser MX760 is a slightly different shape. Interestingly, it has more leeway with fit - for my ears anyways - but alas, YMMV. I can fit the shell in my ear on an angle which may be a great option for people that struggle with fit of standard bud shells. Speaking of which, manufacturers seem to be moving away from the classic MX500 shell to some degree, and this is probably a good thing. The 20Ohm resistence and 108DB sensitivity means that the driver is easy to, er, drive - on paper. This is true in practice as well. There shouldn't be any issues scaling down to a phone or older DAP or up to more powerful amp, which is always great. The cable is twisted, but not braided and seems strong while not retaining memory. Shells and cable are both very light. I sense that there could be some slight microphonics if there was enough rubbing from a shirt collar (for example) closer the shell. Barring that possibility there shouldn't be any issues with regards to this.

The DIY Graphene, leans towards warm, while being bright (depending on the recordings) with a slight v-shape. There's some sharpness in the upper treble, yet there's no sibilence to be found on any genres I throw at it, but I would say that I would go to it for classic rock and jazz than, say, vocal oriented music or newer recordings. The sound is extremely musical and engaging, yet clear while being a tad peaky in the treble region only sometimes. This earbud excels with older recordings that don't have any over-emphasis on treble. Newer recordings that sound too processed can come across as too sharp, in some cases. A/B-ing between the Monk+ SPC Edition and DIY Graphene left the Monk sounding slightly veiled from my iPhone SE. However, directly from my tube amp, the Monk battled back, potentially needing the extra oomph, being a 64ohm driver. That said and considered, there's only a slight boost in performance from the power output of the tube amp in regards to the Graphene bud. It plays really well directly from a phone, and with my portable amps to be sure. At first blush, the sound of this earbud had me thinking of the Venture Electronics Zen 2 and this was because of the musicality and slight recession in the midrange. In direct comparison, the Zen sounds slightly more resolving and is and a bit warmer, while being more circular and larger in its staging. The Zen cost me about 7x the price and I can't leave that tidbit out.

I would consider staging would be slightly above baseline for the DIY Graphene, however, the midbass response is excellent and vocals sound warm and thick, but not overly so. The attack is fast, and the decay is medium for an earbud. It doesn't have the boomy subbass that's found in the Vido or Yincrow X6, but I doubt it will be missed, because it's emphasis is improvements in quality, speed and general musicality, with regards to a direct comparison. The soundstage is ovular, but not overly large. Things can be heard in my peripheral, however, only slightly out of head and not incredibly deep. In that regard, I would say it's above average. Imaging is quite good - on John Coltranes "Love Supreme PT. 1: Acknowledgement", the piano plays behind my head as I would expect and the spacing and soundscape is wonderful and ever-so-slightly narrower than the same with the VE Zen 2.

Playing more jazz, I did become concerned with the sharpness of the drivers attack. As a point of reference (*an unfair point of reference) I pulled the Blur from my arsenal to do some A/B-ing. I was correct in my concern, as Coltranes saxaphone sounded more natural and rounded from the Blur - it's presentation is more organic. The same can be said for all instruments but is not as noticeable with vocals to my ears. Playing Kate Bush recordings from the early 80's was enthralling and sounded perfect. As I've mentioned, this driver plays well with older recordings. To be fair though - the driver has not been burned in (about 10 hrs so far), and this will probably improve with 20-50 hours on it. I'm not too worried. Adding a donut over the foam, really cleaned this up for me as a workaround for now.

Overall, it's another excellent value proposition for anyone looking for a new earbud. This earbud will suit people looking for a consumer friendly and extremely fun sound signature while on a limited(ish) budget. Or people looking for a moderate improvement in sound in stepping up a price tier. I'll be looking forward to the subtle sound changes as the driver properly burns-in. Happy listening!

*Note: I did receive a discount from NICEHCK, however, discounts are commonly available from Ali Express sellers for Facebook Friends.


----------



## chaiyuta

Is there any person who can share (and never share before both here and the fb group) Diomines Lv.2 impression?


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 27, 2017)

93EXCivic said:


> If the Shozy BK doesn't work out for me, I am going to just buy a crap ton of different drivers, tuning supplies and some PK2 style housings and just build my own earbuds that are perfect for me.


For fun I wanted to try my hand at making an earbud. I bought yuin pk shells, copper twisted cable in clear coating and drivers named "pk1 pro pink diaphragm 32 ohms".

Sum total for one earbud(s) is €14.29. If it sounds as good or better than the other diy earbuds like emx500 or graphene or diy pk2 i'll be happy. More for fun than expecting to be blown away by the sound


----------



## 93EXCivic

seanc6441 said:


> For fun I wanted to try my hand at making an earbud. I bought yuin pk shells, copper twisted cable in clear coating and drivers named "pk1 pro pink diaphragm 32 ohms".
> 
> Sum total for one earbud(s) is €14.29. If it sounds as good or better than the other diy earbuds like emx500 or graphene or diy pk2 i'll be happy. More for fun than expecting to be blown away by the sound



I am probably going to go crazy order every driver that fits the PK shells I can find, measure the drivers by themselves, pick a driver, put them in a shell and then tune by ear and by measurement. It is the engineer in me. I really don't want to keep buying earbuds hoping to find the perfect one so I am trying the Shozy BK and Yinman 600 and then if those aren't them time to try building. I just want one I love and I want to be done with it. 

I did just realize that I need to try my Campfred2s with the thinner Monk foams to see if that helps the comfort.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 27, 2017)

93EXCivic said:


> I am probably going to go crazy order every driver that fits the PK shells I can find, measure the drivers by themselves, pick a driver, put them in a shell and then tune by ear and by measurement. It is the engineer in me. I really don't want to keep buying earbuds hoping to find the perfect one so I am trying the Shozy BK and Yinman 600 and then if those aren't them time to try building. I just want one I love and I want to be done with it.
> 
> I did just realize that I need to try my Campfred2s with the thinner Monk foams to see if that helps the comfort.



 I'm finding that with fine tuning earbuds slight EQing and trying every foam combination under the sun is kind of essential.

For instance with my masya I went from
-heigi full foam
-heigi donut foam
-monk thin + heigi donut
-monk thin + Monk donut (slightly thicker than heigi)
-monk thin + monk thin donut
-monk thin + monk thin donut +monk thin donut

So basically i've settled with using 3 monk thins per side, 2 cut as donut foams over one normal monk thin foam.

Now it fits/seals perfectly as the monk thins layered have much more room to expand and be compressed filling out your ear better without being too big.

The high's are less sibilant but still retains nice qualit, you don't lose as much clarity about the mid-high ranges, sounds more airy and has an equal or maybe even improved bass slam than the donuts because the seal is perfect.

This isn't a one for all solution for allmy buds, but it reaffirms that foam choice and fit/seal are vital to good sound. Bridging the gap between Earbud and IEM seal without losing the airy nature of earbuds.


----------



## PacoBdn

Hello friends,

Would anyone be so kind as to make a small comparison between the MX760 Graphene, the Campfred2 and the Svara L of 32 Ohm?

Of the Campfred2 I have not managed to find any information, and on the Svara L is spoken very well but always of the old 115 Ohm, no one here as far as I know, has made no reference or comment on the new 32 Ohm. The NiceHCK Graphene I have them and I love them. My personal setup is with a full foam and a donut type.

Thank you very much.


----------



## Fahim Foysal (Oct 27, 2017)

Can someone please recommend a chifi earbud around 60 dollars. Mmcx is a must along with good build. I haven't used earbuds before but like u shaped signature with great bass thump and sub bass rumble THAT DOESNT DROWN THE MIDS and a little brightness with detail in the mids and highs. I dont like over emphasized vocals. I don't know much about earbuds as I always have been into in ears but is good sub bass possible in earbuds?


----------



## DBaldock9

Fahim Foysal said:


> Can someone please recommend a chifi earbud around 60 dollars. Mmcx is a must along with good build. I haven't used earbuds before but like u shaped signature with great bass thump and sub bass rumble THAT DOESNT DROWN THE MIDS and a little brightness with detail in the mids and highs. I dont like over emphasized vocals. I don't know much about earbuds as I always have been into in ears but is good sub bass possible in earbuds?



What will you be driving the earbuds with - Phone, DAP, Amp?


----------



## chaiyuta

93EXCivic said:


> I am probably going to go crazy order every driver that fits the PK shells I can find, measure the drivers by themselves, pick a driver, put them in a shell and then tune by ear and by measurement. It is the engineer in me. I really don't want to keep buying earbuds hoping to find the perfect one so I am trying the Shozy BK and Yinman 600 and then if those aren't them time to try building. I just want one I love and I want to be done with it.
> 
> I did just realize that I need to try my Campfred2s with the thinner Monk foams to see if that helps the comfort.



Do you imply that you just ordered Shozy BK by blind buying (and not recieved yet)?


----------



## Fahim Foysal

DBaldock9 said:


> What will you be driving the earbuds with - Phone, DAP, Amp?


a xiaomi mi 5. So low impedance is necessary


----------



## seanc6441

Fahim Foysal said:


> Can someone please recommend a chifi earbud around 60 dollars. Mmcx is a must along with good build. I haven't used earbuds before but like u shaped signature with great bass thump and sub bass rumble THAT DOESNT DROWN THE MIDS and a little brightness with detail in the mids and highs. I dont like over emphasized vocals. I don't know much about earbuds as I always have been into in ears but is good sub bass possible in earbuds?


Sounds like you need the Svara L. Now there's different impendance versions andI think you'll need to look out for the 32ohm version.

You'll need to research it though as I don't own it but others here consider it one of the best bass earbuds at €60 and it's MMCX too. Mids and highs are clear but bass/sub bass has emphasis. That's all i've heard, but it seems like the right earbud for you.


----------



## 93EXCivic

chaiyuta said:


> Do you imply that you just ordered Shozy BK by blind buying (and not recieved yet)?



I haven't yet. I am ordering them towards the end of November though.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 27, 2017)

golov17 said:


> 300-400 usd, wow


Better be f**king splendid SQ then lol

Oh nevermind I take it back, the grille looks beautiful, worth it


----------



## Fahim Foysal

seanc6441 said:


> Sounds like you need the Svara L. Now there's different impendance versions andI think you'll need to look out for the 32ohm version.
> 
> You'll need to research it though as I don't own it but others here consider it one of the best bass earbuds at €60 and it's MMCX too. Mids and highs are clear but bass/sub bass has emphasis. That's all i've heard, but it seems like the right earbud for you.


Thanks man. The svara L was in my radar but I can't seem to find proper reviews of it. So far all i know is it is a dual driver with good low end. I didnt find much info about the mids and highs..


----------



## seanc6441

Fahim Foysal said:


> Thanks man. The svara L was in my radar but I can't seem to find proper reviews of it. So far all i know is it is a dual driver with good low end. I didnt find much info about the mids and highs..


There's info on it here, search this thread in the search box for 'svara' and you should find it.


----------



## Fahim Foysal

seanc6441 said:


> There's info on it here, search this thread in the search box for 'svara' and you should find it.


Yes I already did that. Mostly found Hungry panda's impression. His and my tastes are quite different.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 27, 2017)

Fahim Foysal said:


> Yes I already did that. Mostly found Hungry panda's impression. His and my tastes are quite different.


I found another few opinions.

- It has a warm bass sound
- soundstage isn't massive, more close sounding
-sound quality difference between 32 and 115 ohm versions. the newer lower ohm version sound better apparently.

Clieos was nicely impressed with his early impressions and he has much experience with earbuds.

Only things I can see that might cause an issue is the massive bass might overshadow the mids, it's warm sound might affect brightness in the top end, closed soundstage implying it's not an airy sound.


----------



## Fahim Foysal

seanc6441 said:


> I found another few opinions.
> 
> - It has a warm bass sound
> - soundstage isn't massive, more close sounding
> -sound quality difference between 32 and 115 ohm versions. the newer lower ohm version sound better apparently.


Considering that I am moving from a in ear to earbuds i think sound stage will seem massive to me. I might be wrong but as far as i've read earbuds have way better sound stage compared to in ears. Thanks a lot man for helping me out. I will knock some owners to know about the quality of the mids and extension of highs


----------



## DBaldock9

seanc6441 said:


> Sounds like you need the Svara L. Now there's different impendance versions andI think you'll need to look out for the 32ohm version.
> 
> You'll need to research it though as I don't own it but others here consider it one of the best bass earbuds at €60 and it's MMCX too. Mids and highs are clear but bass/sub bass has emphasis. That's all i've heard, but it seems like the right earbud for you.



I have the 115Ω Svara L, and it definitely has the most Bass of any of my MMCX Earbuds:
(Listed in order of Bass impact)
1.) Svara L - 115Ω, Metal housing
2.) **** PT15 v2 - 32Ω, Metal housing
3.) Daik DK-Song - 16Ω, Wood housing

Due to the strong Bass, the Svara L seems to have a more recessed Midrange & Treble.
The **** PT15 (newer, 2017 model) has the best balance of pretty good Bass, and nice clear Midrange & Treble.
The Daik DK-Song is a smaller, more comfortable housing, and has less Bass, but good Midrange & Treble.

Currently on order, for ~$50 - $60, is the new ToneKing TO200 (200Ω, MMCX) - but you can find the other new ToneKing MMCX Earbud models on AliExpress, which range from 32Ω - 185Ω.  They're all in the same $55 - $60 range.

I've also ordered some of the MMCX jacks, that can be used to modify regular MX500 shells, so they can be "removable MMCX" models.


----------



## golov17

seanc6441 said:


> Better be f**king splendid SQ then lol
> 
> Oh nevermind I take it back, the grille looks beautiful, worth it


spending money on a proven options


----------



## Fahim Foysal (Oct 27, 2017)

DBaldock9 said:


> I have the 115Ω Svara L, and it definitely has the most Bass of any of my MMCX Earbuds:
> (Listed in order of Bass impact)
> 1.) Svara L - 115Ω, Metal housing
> 2.) **** PT15 v2 - 32Ω, Metal housing
> ...


The thing is that I tend to listen to songs at lower volumes compared to most people so a greater than average thump in the low end is needed. I am really into hybrid iems with crossovers that have to ability to provide great highs that rise out of the heavy bass notes without drowing out the sound. Is there anything like that in the earbud world? The svara l is a dual driver but does it have a crossover?


----------



## rkw (Oct 27, 2017)

93EXCivic said:


> I really don't want to keep buying earbuds hoping to find the perfect one so I am trying the Shozy BK and Yinman 600


Be forewarned that Yinman 600 needs a lot of power to reach its potential. It is 600 ohm after all (BK is 35 ohm). I have to turn up the volume to the same level I use for the power hungry Sennheiser HD650 full size headphones. The Yinman 600 has MMCX connectors that allow you to easily switch the cable to balanced, and ideally you would do that along with using a good balanced amplifier (I am using Schiit Jotunheim). With a portable amp or DAP, you'd be better off choosing one of the lower impedance Yinman models.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 27, 2017)

Fahim Foysal said:


> The thing is that I tend to listen to songs at lower volumes compared to most people so a greater than average thump in the low end is needed. I am really into hybrid iems with crossovers that have to ability to provide great highs that rise out of the heavy bass notes without drowing out the sound. Is there anything like that in the earbud world? The svara l is a dual driver but does it have a crossover?


Listening on earbuds you may need slightly higher volume to bring out all frequencies and drown out outside noise, even in a quiet(ish) environment.

I have no idea what a crossover is, either it's not a thing in the earbud world or I've never encountered it. Also it's not necessarily better to buy dual over single driver in earbuds, most TOTL earbuds are single driver. Rose Masya and Mojito are dual driver though.

Maybe try the **** PT15 first as Dbaldock9 says, it's also much cheaper, €8 without a cable, up to €20 depending on cable choice.


----------



## Saoshyant

I haven't noticed any comparisons between the two Svara L versions as of yet, will have to go look for them.  I just hope they made sure the 115ohm version was properly driven before coming to that conclusion.  The original version of the Svara L has fantastic bass for an earbud, but anyone used to IEMs looking for something with a "great thump" will typically be disappointed.  Functionally, it's just not how earbuds are designed to work.


----------



## nick n

golov17 said:


> spending money on a proven options



golov, what is the name of those. I am losing track with so many options in here.

Thanks


----------



## groucho69

Is this legit?
https://yooaudio.com/products/2017-newest-svara-l-flat-head-earphone-svara-l
*2017 Newest Svara L Flat Head Earphone Svara-L*
$55.00


----------



## jogawag

Fahim Foysal said:


> Can someone please recommend a chifi earbud around 60 dollars. Mmcx is a must along with good build. I haven't used earbuds before but like u shaped signature with great bass thump and sub bass rumble THAT DOESNT DROWN THE MIDS and a little brightness with detail in the mids and highs. I dont like over emphasized vocals. I don't know much about earbuds as I always have been into in ears but is good sub bass possible in earbuds?


You should try Vido (with mic) first.
If there is any dissatisfaction with it, I think that it is better to ask advice to select earbuds which is improved that point, here again.


----------



## waynes world

Fahim Foysal said:


> Can someone please recommend a chifi earbud around 60 dollars. Mmcx is a must along with good build. I haven't used earbuds before but like u shaped signature with great bass thump and sub bass rumble THAT DOESNT DROWN THE MIDS and a little brightness with detail in the mids and highs. I dont like over emphasized vocals. I don't know much about earbuds as I always have been into in ears but is good sub bass possible in earbuds?



If it wasn't for your "Mmcx is a must", then I would suggest the Graphenes to you.


----------



## HungryPanda

OurArt Ti7 and Svara-L  are the only buds I have with mmcx, there are not many with that connection


----------



## jant71 (Oct 27, 2017)

The new round of Tonekings(TO65/150/200, and Unicorn) all have MMCX but can't tell ya about how they sound or which has the most bass/subbass 

The specs indicate the 200 goes down to 12Hz, the 150 13, Unicorn 14, and the TO65 15Hz though reach may not indicate the most amount or thump.


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> OurArt Ti7 and Svara-L  are the only buds I have with mmcx, there are not many with that connection


**** pt15 too afaik


----------



## waynes world (Oct 27, 2017)

jant71 said:


> The new round of Tonekings(TO65/150/200, and Unicorn) *all have MMCX *but can't tell ya about how they sound or which has the most bass/subbass
> The specs indicate the 200 goes down to 12Hz, the 150 13, Unicorn 14, and the TO65 15Hz though reach may not indicate the most amount or thump.



Please excuse my ignorance, but maybe you know this...

If an earbud was wired with mmcx connections, then could said earbud be hooked up to any bluetooth cable that supports mmcx connections?

And if said earbud normally sounds like an apple when hardwired, would it still sound like an apple when hooked up via a bluetooth cable, or would it sound more like a papaya? If it sounds more like a papaya, could it be made to sound more like the apple that it should sound like with a better quality bluetooth cable?

edit: I would be looking at a cable that supports aptx, and probably at least 4.0 or higher. Also, I would initially be using my Samsung S7 (exynos) as a source, and hopefully someday a Cayin N3. I am currently using August EP650 headphones (4.1, aptx) from my S7, and they sound very good to me (but only after some heavy EQ'ing).

I've got a lot to learn lol.


----------



## Saoshyant

Yinman 600, Svara L, Dk-Song, PT15, Ti7, DIY PK1 are the MMCX earbuds I've owned.


----------



## seanc6441

Anyone buying earbuds off aliexpress in 15 days 11.11 sale will commence and there's some really good deals for example nicehck graphene will €19 down from €25, diy pk2 will be €13 down from €19


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 27, 2017)

waynes world said:


> Please excuse my ignorance, but maybe you know this...
> 
> If an earbud was wired with mmcx connections, then could said earbud be hooked up to any bluetooth cable that supports mmcx connections?
> 
> ...


If you're talking in general about SQ over bluetooth, unless it's apples new W1 chip it will not be as good. If it's bluetooth 4.2 it'll be ok maybe, if it's just 4.0 it probably won't sound as good.

That's from some light research I did a few months ago when I wanted to go wireless.

I'm not sure if the DAP inside the bluetooth device is the determining factor more than the connection over bluetooth in the last few years has been inferior. But i think recent developments in the last year have changed that, between apples new w1 chip and other tech going into BT headphones i think they have bridged the gap... but a device that good for your earbuds, i don't know.

I bought a few cheap BT 4.2 modules to test it out, clarity was woeful. I'm sure there's better more expensive options out there though.


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Please excuse my ignorance, but maybe you know this...
> 
> If an earbud was wired with mmcx connections, then could said earbud be hooked up to any bluetooth cable that supports mmcx connections?
> 
> ...



this my earbud bluetooth setup using the Svara L:

 

the thing to consider when using bluetooth, even though you might lose some quality to the sound, you gain a lot in comfort and freedom of mobility. for a bonus it also add mic for calls to the earbuds.
i personally haven't done critical a/b testing between using Bluetooth or wired, but to me the differences (if there's any) are minor enough that i don't really notice them or bothering me


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> If you're talking in general about SQ over bluetooth, unless it's apples new W1 chip it will not be as good. If it's bluetooth 4.2 it'll be ok maybe, if it's just 4.0 it probably won't sound as good.
> 
> That's from some light research I did a few months ago when I wanted to go wireless.
> 
> ...



For a bit more context, I added this to my post:
"edit: I would be looking at a cable that supports aptx, and probably at least 4.0 or higher. Also, I would initially be using my Samsung S7 (exynos) as a source, and hopefully someday a Cayin N3. I am currently using August EP650 headphones (4.1, aptx) from my S7, and they sound very good to me (but only after some heavy EQ'ing)."

Thanks for your thoughts. I wish that I didn't like how much the August EP650's sound so that I could put the thought of "bluetooth earbuds" out of my mind.

Did your BT 4.2 modules receive in aptx? I wonder if aptx might be an important factor.

When you say "DAP inside the bluetooth device", I'm sure that you mean "DAC". I'm not sure how important it is, but it probably is very important. I suppose the more "neutral" it is, the more it will allow the earbuds to sound like they normally would.


----------



## waynes world (Oct 27, 2017)

chinmie said:


> the thing to consider when using bluetooth, even though you might lose some quality to the sound, you gain a lot in comfort and freedom of mobility. for a bonus it also add mic for calls to the earbuds.



Yes. As I mentioned above, I have discovered those benefits via the August EP650 bluetooth headphones (which surprised me with how good they sound - when eq'd).



> i personally haven't done critical a/b testing between using Bluetooth or wired, but to me the differences (if there's any) are minor enough that i don't really notice them or bothering me



Very interesting. Which bluetooth cable are you using?


----------



## waynes world

Saoshyant said:


> Yinman 600, Svara L, Dk-Song, PT15, Ti7, DIY PK1 are the MMCX earbuds I've owned.



Have you tried any bluetooth cables with any of them?


----------



## Saoshyant

Not at all, would need to do some research first for a decent quality one.  I typically use an XB10 for BT needs.


----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> Have you tried any bluetooth cables with any of them?



I charged up, and ran my Trinity Audio Bluetooth (MMCX) Lanyard, with my Svara L (115Ω) earbuds, last Saturday afternoon - after getting the Miccus MHTX4-PRO (Long Range Bluetooth 4.2 Transmitter) setup in my Living Room.
The BT equipment is all aptX compliant - and it sounds good - but I'm not sure if it's all Low Latency, as well.
The audio latency (Roku 4 TOSLINK -> 4x4 TOSLINK Matrix Switch -> TOSLINK MHTX4-PRO -> BT Lanyard) is not so bad that lip-sync problems are obvious while watching YouTube videos (the video chain goes through an HDMI 4x4 Matrix Switch, and is displayed by a Dell 24" Monitor).


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 27, 2017)

waynes world said:


> For a bit more context, I added this to my post:
> "edit: I would be looking at a cable that supports aptx, and probably at least 4.0 or higher. Also, I would initially be using my Samsung S7 (exynos) as a source, and hopefully someday a Cayin N3. I am currently using August EP650 headphones (4.1, aptx) from my S7, and they sound very good to me (but only after some heavy EQ'ing)."
> 
> Thanks for your thoughts. I wish that I didn't like how much the August EP650's sound so that I could put the thought of "bluetooth earbuds" out of my mind.
> ...



Yes sorry I meant DAC. Also take my opinion with a grain of salt as I have not been using expensive BT devices and also haven't been too pushed to further explore my options.

The difference with headphones is you have space in the cups to implement larger chips and battery. For earbuds it's not always convenient for some people to use a bluetooth mmcx cable if it's 3 times as heavy as a normal cable thus causing issues with the buds staying in your ears etc.

When you get into the real bluetooth territory of wireless earbuds/IEM's like the airpodsand braggi dash etc, price-sound performance ratio becomes depressingly poor.

I guess your looking for a good quality BT cable and not too worried about true wireless implementation. Also SQ for bluetooth in 2017 is impressive and seems like the connection latency and issues of disconnect have been improved a lot. I'd check out headfi there surely is a forum related to this stuff?


----------



## chinmie (Oct 27, 2017)

waynes world said:


> Very interesting. Which bluetooth cable are you using?



I'm using the nicehck product. i usually use my cayin N3 and fiio E17k combo for Bluetooth when listening to music, but because of the N3's latency, for watching movies or youtube, it's rather uncomfortable. that's why i use this setup, which has low latency


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> I charged up, and ran my Trinity Audio Bluetooth (MMCX) Lanyard, with my Svara L (115Ω) earbuds, last Saturday afternoon - after getting the Miccus MHTX4-PRO (Long Range Bluetooth 4.2 Transmitter) setup in my Living Room.
> The BT equipment is all aptX compliant - and it sounds good - but I'm not sure if it's all Low Latency, as well.
> The audio latency (Roku 4 TOSLINK -> 4x4 TOSLINK Matrix Switch -> TOSLINK MHTX4-PRO -> BT Lanyard) is not so bad that lip-sync problems are obvious while watching YouTube videos (the video chain goes through an HDMI 4x4 Matrix Switch, and is displayed by a Dell 24" Monitor).



Thanks! If you ever get a chance to try out your Svara L's and Trinity Audio Bluetooth (MMCX) Lanyard off of your Cayin N3, I'm all ears


----------



## Fahim Foysal

seanc6441 said:


> Listening on earbuds you may need slightly higher volume to bring out all frequencies and drown out outside noise, even in a quiet(ish) environment.
> 
> I have no idea what a crossover is, either it's not a thing in the earbud world or I've never encountered it. Also it's not necessarily better to buy dual over single driver in earbuds, most TOTL earbuds are single driver. Rose Masya and Mojito are dual driver though.
> 
> Maybe try the **** PT15 first as Dbaldock9 says, it's also much cheaper, €8 without a cable, up to €20 depending on cable choice.


Crossover is basically when different parts of the frequecy spectrum is handled by different driver. For example if there was crossover in the the svara then they could use one of the dual dynamic driver for 15-500 hz and another for the rest of the frequency ranges. This really helps prevent the drowning of the mids and highs in bass heavy tracks. I find the 'drowning' really annoying. Hence I always leaned towards hybrid iems.


----------



## Fahim Foysal

jogawag said:


> You should try Vido (with mic) first.
> If there is any dissatisfaction with it, I think that it is better to ask advice to select earbuds which is improved that point, here again.


I really wanna try something a little more high end. Something that has the signature of rose masya with better bass extention and thump.


----------



## Fahim Foysal

Saoshyant said:


> I haven't noticed any comparisons between the two Svara L versions as of yet, will have to go look for them.  I just hope they made sure the 115ohm version was properly driven before coming to that conclusion.  The original version of the Svara L has fantastic bass for an earbud, but anyone used to IEMs looking for something with a "great thump" will typically be disappointed.  Functionally, it's just not how earbuds are designed to work.


I am not worried about the bass. I am worried about the mids and high. How is the clarity on these?


----------



## Fahim Foysal (Oct 27, 2017)

DBaldock9 said:


> I have the 115Ω Svara L, and it definitely has the most Bass of any of my MMCX Earbuds:
> (Listed in order of Bass impact)
> 1.) Svara L - 115Ω, Metal housing
> 2.) **** PT15 v2 - 32Ω, Metal housing
> ...


How is the treble extension. How recessed are the mids and highs. I usally dont mind a little recessed mids as long as they have clarity and I like my highs. As without them the stingy instruments lack the natural air that you hear in live recording. Can you provide a detailed description of the sound from both svara L and ****. Bass is very important to me too.

I am leaning toward the svara L cause of the bass.


----------



## Fahim Foysal

chinmie said:


> thank you. based on your descriptions, i don't think that the svara is right for me, as i like a little distance and depth. my ears get tired faster when listening to closed in sounding earphones


I have the same problem as I like some distance and depth. I see that you still decided to the svara L. Are you happy with them considering the soundstage is small?


----------



## jogawag (Oct 28, 2017)

Fahim Foysal said:


> I really wanna try something a little more high end. Something that has the signature of rose masya with better bass extention and thump.


If you are clear to that, you should first purchase RoseMasya.
Next, please buy earpieces (like audio-technica ER-CHX7 S size) for bass enhancement.
Finally, if you need mmcx, you need to purchase the 2pin<=>mmcx connector. (About $ 35 in my country)

audio-technica ER-CHX7,  RoseMasya,   2pin<=>mmcx connector


----------



## Fahim Foysal

jogawag said:


> If you are clear to that, you should first purchase RoseMasya.
> Next, please buy earpieces (like audio-technica ER-CHX7 S size) for bass enhancement.
> Finally, if you need mmcx, you need to purchase the 2pin<=>mmcx connector. (About $ 35 in my country)
> 
> audio-technica ER-CHX7,  RoseMasya,   2pin<=>mmcx connector


Masya is a bit too expensive for me. It's about 100 usd. My budget is around 60. I can go till 70 dollars max.


----------



## chinmie

Fahim Foysal said:


> I have the same problem as I like some distance and depth. I see that you still decided to the svara L. Are you happy with them considering the soundstage is small?



as a matter of fact, i'm really glad that i did. the Svara's soundstage is what i called "true to room soundstage" . it may not have the widest X axis (which to some perceived as wide), but it really represents the real space of the recording. to test this, try listening to live binaural recordings. some earphones, even when they are wide, but the reverb of the room will be separated between the left and right ears.
with the Svara, the reverb will meet in front of you/ inside your head, completing the aural space.
in my earbud collections, only the Svara, Puresound PS100-500, Willsound MK2, and the Red Demun that do this


----------



## DBaldock9

Found the link to a track by E Muzeki, on their _Mavra Matia_ album, where they're using *Big Bertha*, the 4-ft diameter frame-drum that they built.
The track is called "C'est la fin/Como Poden" - http://www.emuzeki.com/imagesandsounds/c'estlafin.mp3

It's a good Bass test.


----------



## Fahim Foysal (Oct 28, 2017)

chinmie said:


> as a matter of fact, i'm really glad that i did. the Svara's soundstage is what i called "true to room soundstage" . it may not have the widest X axis (which to some perceived as wide), but it really represents the real space of the recording. to test this, try listening to live binaural recordings. some earphones, even when they are wide, but the reverb of the room will be separated between the left and right ears.
> with the Svara, the reverb will meet in front of you/ inside your head, completing the aural space.
> in my earbud collections, only the Svara, Puresound PS100-500, Willsound MK2, and the Red Demun that do this


Can you give a clear picture of how the highs sound and the clarity in the mids and upper registers. This is the only thing that is stopping me from pulling the trigger on svara L. Do accousting music and stringy instruments have air in it like it would in a actual recording and how is the overall resolution?


----------



## SweetEars

jogawag said:


> I have received NiceHCK DIY Graphene MX760.
> Now, I will compare 4 of
> TY Hi-Z HP-150s(150s) / NiceHCK Graphene MX760(MX760) / EMX500(EMX500) / NiceHCK PK2s(PK2s).
> 
> ...




i am thinking of getting the Ry4S. currently on EMX500.  what do u think???


----------



## jogawag (Oct 28, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> i am thinking of getting the Ry4S. currently on EMX500.  what do u think???


RY4S is a fun sound that feeling that bass.
RY4S is cheap and has a cable similar to rubber.
I think that it is a good choice if you do not mind it.
But if you already have EMX500, RY4S will not be necessary as the EMX500 will sound upward compatible.


----------



## SweetEars

jogawag said:


> RY4S is a fun sound that feeling that bass.
> RY4S is cheap and has a cable similar to rubber.
> I think that it is a good choice if you do not mind it.
> But if you already have EMX500, RX4S will not be necessary as the EMX500 will sound upward compatible.



i am perfectly satisfied with the emx500 . is there anything i can get a step or two higher witht he same characteristics of emx 500?


----------



## damex

is there a difference between k's 500ohm earphone v1 and v2?

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...658.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.25d9e40ctifRlz

first version looks badass. i would get it if it is just plug ;p


----------



## jogawag (Oct 28, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> i am perfectly satisfied with the emx500 . is there anything i can get a step or two higher with he same characteristics of emx 500?


My recommendation below.
1 step is Graphene MX760.(burn in time is over 70h.)
2 step is MusicMaker Ting.(using donut pads.)


----------



## DBaldock9

damex said:


> is there a difference between k's 500ohm earphone v1 and v2?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...658.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.25d9e40ctifRlz
> 
> first version looks badass. i would get it if it is just plug ;p



Apparently, the connector is the main difference, according to the @BloodyPenguin review - https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ks-earphone-500ohm-earbud.22109/reviews
And, on the NiceHCK AliExpress listing, it shows that the connector (and wire decorations) are the differences - https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...rbud-500-ohms-Earbud/1825606_32751502658.html
You could also contact Jim NiceHCK on Facebook, and ask - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100011438846290


----------



## j4100

I'm waiting on my Shozy BK's arriving, but look what showed up early. The seahf AWK-F150C and NiceHCK Graphene earbuds. Need to do some listening and I guess some burning in.


----------



## Cyperus

93EXCivic said:


> I am probably going to go crazy order every driver that fits the PK shells I can find, measure the drivers by themselves, pick a driver, put them in a shell and then tune by ear and by measurement. It is the engineer in me. I really don't want to keep buying earbuds hoping to find the perfect one so I am trying the Shozy BK and Yinman 600 and then if those aren't them time to try building. I just want one I love and I want to be done with it.
> 
> I did just realize that I need to try my Campfred2s with the thinner Monk foams to see if that helps the comfort.


Try it without the Foam. I have the same issues on the fitting like you


----------



## chaiyuta

@Cyperus : Hi, Long time no see you post anything here. Welcome back.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 28, 2017)

Fahim Foysal said:


> I really wanna try something a little more high end. Something that has the signature of rose masya with better bass extention and thump.


The Masya extends low. It needs to be EQ'ed for thumpy bass though. But it's costly and doesn't handle all genre's IMO because it's abit thin sounding so I use it for instrumental and soundtrack music. Also the drivers do use 'crossover' as you say. One driver handles bass and another mids and high's.

But Masya is costly so it's off the table at €90.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 28, 2017)

jogawag said:


> If you are clear to that, you should first purchase RoseMasya.
> Next, please buy earpieces (like audio-technica ER-CHX7 S size) for bass enhancement.
> Finally, if you need mmcx, you need to purchase the 2pin<=>mmcx connector. (About $ 35 in my country)
> 
> audio-technica ER-CHX7,  RoseMasya,   2pin<=>mmcx connector


With your Masya do you find the vocals to lack enough body/weight? Seems the preference for total clarity means you lack body to vocals. Is this also your experiene with Masya?

I mean I've tried every foam combination and I've burned them in but out of my iphone it's a hopeless case. I have resorted to using them as a niche bud for instrumental and avoid them for any vocal tracks. Maybe it's just the iphone, but other earbuds don't have this issue as much as the masya.

Also where did you buy those tips separately from the earbud? I'd like to try them on my masya. Currently I'm running with 3 monk thin foams 1 full 2 cut into donut. It's a great combo, but I'd like to try that eartip. I have used cheapish 'yurbud' one before that's soft silicone but it's terrible, is this one more solid like a plastic? Thanks


----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> Thanks! If you ever get a chance to try out your Svara L's and Trinity Audio Bluetooth (MMCX) Lanyard off of your Cayin N3, I'm all ears



It took a few tries (and turning off my other Bluetooth Transmitters), but I managed to pair the Trinity Audio BT Lanyard to my Cayin N3, and listen to the Svara L & **** PT15 earbuds.

One thing to know when using the N3 with a BT Lanyard - there are 3 things that affect the loudness:
1.)  *L* / *M* / *H* Level Setting on N3
2.)  Volume Setting on N3
3.)  Volume Setting on Lanyard

Another interesting bit of info - while you can't control the Volume & Music (Play / Pause / Fwd / Rew) using a 3.5mm TRRS earbud cable plugged in - you can control the Music (Play / Pause / Fwd / Rew) with the buttons on the Trinity BT Lanyard, and it has local Volume control.

I set the Lanyard Volume on Max, and set the N3 to *H* Level - so that Loudness was controlled by the N3 volume buttons.
Other settings on the N3 are: Digital Filter = Short Delay Slow; EQ = Off; aptX = On.
Playing several Chesky Binaural recordings (Amber Rubarth's - _Sessions from the 17th Ward_ and Chesky's - _Ultimate Headphone Demonstration_).

I may not be as critical of a listener as some others, but I'm not hearing obvious differences between using the Trinity Audio BT Lanyard, and a direct cable connection (custom Impact Audio 2.5mm Balanced cable, connected with 3.5mm -to- 2.5mm adapter).
The Svara L still has more Bass than the PT15, with a warmer sound - just like when direct cabled.
Due to the 115Ω vs. 32Ω impedance, the Svara L requires that the Volume be turned up higher for the same Loudness.
The Trinity Lanyard can drive either earbud to Loudness levels that are plenty high for me.
The PT15 has more Midrange & Treble, so the _point of view_ seems slightly further away, with a more open & deeper Sound Stage, than with the Svara L.


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> It took a few tries (and turning off my other Bluetooth Transmitters), but I managed to pair the Trinity Audio BT Lanyard to my Cayin N3, and listen to the Svara L & **** PT15 earbuds.
> 
> One thing to know when using the N3 with a BT Lanyard - there are 3 things that affect the loudness:
> 1.)  *L* / *M* / *H* Level Setting on N3
> ...



Wow, great info Mr Baldock! Thank you very much.


----------



## Danneq

nick n said:


> golov, what is the name of those. I am losing track with so many options in here.
> 
> Thanks



It looks like Audio Technica ATH CM7. It could now be considered a vintage earbud since it was released around 15-20 years ago. It's really quite good, but I find newer earbuds to be even better. I sold my pair about 1 year ago. If you can find a pair cheap (less than $100) you might be able to make a little bit of money. I think I sold my pair for a little over $200...


----------



## jogawag

seanc6441 said:


> With your Masya do you find the vocals to lack enough body/weight? Seems the preference for total clarity means you lack body to vocals. Is this also your experiene with Masya?
> 
> I mean I've tried every foam combination and I've burned them in but out of my iphone it's a hopeless case. I have resorted to using them as a niche bud for instrumental and avoid them for any vocal tracks. Maybe it's just the iphone, but other earbuds don't have this issue as much as the masya.
> 
> Also where did you buy those tips separately from the earbud? I'd like to try them on my masya. Currently I'm running with 3 monk thin foams 1 full 2 cut into donut. It's a great combo, but I'd like to try that eartip. I have used cheapish 'yurbud' one before that's soft silicone but it's terrible, is this one more solid like a plastic? Thanks



*ER-CHX7* is an earpiece attached to Earbuds called _ATH-CHX7_ of audio-technica.

The page of Earbuds called _ATH-CHX7_ of audio-technica is below. It seems that the earpiece is sold separately.
https://www.audio-technica.co.jp/atj/show_model.php?modelId=2378

In the worst case you can purchase Earbuds as a whole with the following amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-SONICFUEL-headphones-ATH-CHX7-Black/dp/B00FWGU3HM/ref=sr_1_1

I purchased the attached earpiece *ER-CHX7*(M size only) below, but it is unknown whether it can be shipped to a foreign country.
http://www.e-earphone.jp/shopdetail/000000038296/

I thought that the earpiece similar to this was sold in aliexpress, but I could not find it.

About sound quality, I can not feel deterioration of sound quality (vocals) even by using *ER-CHX7* of this earpiece.

Masya with ER-CHX7　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　Original ATH-CHX7


----------



## j4100

Very interesting. I'd like to try these.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 28, 2017)

jogawag said:


> *ER-CHX7* is an earpiece attached to Earbuds called _ATH-CHX7_ of audio-technica.
> 
> The page of Earbuds called _ATH-CHX7_ of audio-technica is below. It seems that the earpiece is sold separately.
> https://www.audio-technica.co.jp/atj/show_model.php?modelId=2378
> ...


What's the matierial used? Silicone or plastic/rubberised plastic.

I need to try these they look interesting.

Also how do you find the vocals of your Masya? thin? thick? In general use I mean versus other earbuds.


----------



## jogawag

seanc6441 said:


> What's the matierial used? Silicone or plastic/rubberised plastic.
> 
> I need to try these they look interesting.


I am sorry. The material is perhaps Silicone.
Please try it.



j4100 said:


> Very interesting. I'd like to try these.


Please try it.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 28, 2017)

jogawag said:


> I am sorry. The material is perhaps Silicone.
> Please try it.



I've used a silicone one before but this design looks much much better. Issue I've had with previous silicone tips is that it compresses the front grille and blocks out some sound/reduces SQ. This one seems to be designed for a similar grille shape to rose Masya, so should work better.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 28, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> I've used a silicone one before but this design looks much much better. Issue I've had with previous silicone tips is that it compresses the front grille and blocks out some sound/reduces SQ. This one seems to be designed for a similar grille shape to rose Masya, so should work better.



* The following is the cheapest and sure way to make Silicon Cover for Rose Masya / Mojito.
(Although it is about sound quality, I can not feel any deterioration of sound quality (vocals) even using this earpiece. However, it does not increase bass.)

1. Buy at http://m.aliexpress.com/item//32675489785.html.


2. Apply 3 red oil-based pens, wait a little and wipe off. (It will be pink for the right side.)
3. Cut along the outer hole with scissors.
4. Fits into Rose Masya / Mojito.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 28, 2017)

jogawag said:


> * The following is the cheapest and sure way to make Silicon Cover for Rose Masya / Mojito.
> (Although it is about sound quality, I can not feel any deterioration of sound quality (vocals) even using this earpiece. However, it does not increase bass.)
> 
> 1. Buy at http://m.aliexpress.com/item//32675489785.html.
> ...


What way are you wearing these? Looped over the ear or something? Why is the cut out on top.

Besides my masya fits good with 3 monk thins it's just lacking in vocal weight/body. Infact everything else is perfect except vocals and a slightl lack of sparkle but I can live with that.

I bought the shozy BK because masya doesn't cut it for my music (radiohead, pink floyd etc) or any music with vocals tbh.

I don't really want a bass boost either because after burn in the bass got stronger and it's about right now, with or without mild EQing it's still good for most of my music.

I just wanted vocals to not sound thin 

Or else it's back to instrumentals only for these buds!


----------



## seanc6441

I don't think I can get a seal better than this with foams, I just think my source + masya is causing thin sounding vocals and I'll have to change source if I want great sound.

 
 
I'm not willing to buy a portable dap because my phone with spotify/protube(youtube) is too convenient.

I'd rather have a audioquest dragonfly or similar dac/amp to plug into my phones usb as a better alternative for me.


----------



## jogawag

seanc6441 said:


> What way are you wearing these? Looped over the ear or something? Why is the cut out on top.
> 
> Besides my masya fits good with 3 monk thins it's just lacking in vocal weight/body. Infact everything else is perfect except vocals and a slightl lack of sparkle but I can live with that.
> 
> ...



When pushing Earbuds with Cover into your ear, make sure to push Earbud from diagonally below.
This will cause the protruding portion of the top of the Cover to shrink and get caught in the ear hole and will not fall off the ear.


----------



## HungryPanda

My happy Rose Masya's


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 28, 2017)

Well I found one issue with my setup of iphone 6s, masya and spotify. It's spotify! The masya's already smooth tuning sounds abit boring on spotify, at first I tought it was the thinner vocals and a lack of sparkle that was the issue. Now I realise after trying out Tidal Hifi free trial which uses FLAC files, it's indeed spotify and it's 320kbps mp3's that is the issue. Testing A/B the same track and tidal is just more crisp sounding. It really makes and masya shine, the smoothness is still there but now it's exciting to listen to. Warmer earbuds and especially those with some roughness can benefit from spotify I guess as the music won't sound too smooth. But the masya is so da mn smooth to begin with that it needs to be paired with lossless files on my 6s.

I guess my solution is to download my favourite albums and music I want to listen to masya with and have them on my phone in ALAC format (apple lossless). Then I can enjoy the masya as it is meant to be enjoyed. 

I really can't justify spending $$$ on a DAP when my iphone is more practical for my music consumtion. I just need to find ways to get the most out of the 6s which actually sounds good (relatively speaking) if you fine tune the experience.

UPDATE: It turns out I'm just the fool who didn't realise spotify was set to normal quality instead of extreme... After reinstalling the app I assumed it saved my preferences in my profile, apparently not. Now on extreme everything sounds lovely, i'd be hard pressed to notice much difference between this and lossless on tidal from my phone. More high end equipment could probably pick up the difference easier though. Now i'm somewhat satisfied again, except for the vocals which still sound too thin


----------



## Dark Helmet

jogawag said:


> If you are clear to that, you should first purchase RoseMasya.
> Next, please buy earpieces (like audio-technica ER-CHX7 S size) for bass enhancement.
> Finally, if you need mmcx, you need to purchase the 2pin<=>mmcx connector. (About $ 35 in my country)
> 
> audio-technica ER-CHX7,  RoseMasya,   2pin<=>mmcx connector


Do you have a link to the 2 pin to mmcx converters?


----------



## acap13

jogawag said:


> When pushing Earbuds with Cover into your ear, make sure to push Earbud from diagonally below.
> This will cause the protruding portion of the top of the Cover to shrink and get caught in the ear hole and will not fall off the ear.



I dont know how serious people will take your suggestion but I tried it just now and it works very greatly to me. Thanks so much for the suggestion.


----------



## jogawag

Dark Helmet said:


> Do you have a link to the 2 pin to mmcx converters?


1st,Japanese C2C site.[mercari]
So, you must register your information.
Then, you must communicate to seller.
You will pay about $35 and post fee.
https://item.mercari.com/jp/m53998763477/

2nd, Miyaji Import Division.
You will pay about $88 and post fee.
http://www.miyaji.co.jp/MID/C-audio/item.php?item=MMCX to 2pin adaptor


----------



## chinmie

Fahim Foysal said:


> Can you give a clear picture of how the highs sound and the clarity in the mids and upper registers. This is the only thing that is stopping me from pulling the trigger on svara L. Do accousting music and stringy instruments have air in it like it would in a actual recording and how is the overall resolution?



at first when i got them, i thought the mids are laid back and the treble a bit rolled off, but at the time i was listening to the graphene. but after lately listening to the puresound ps100-500, the svara has more or less the same level of mids and treble to it, but with lot bigger bass. the svara has good detailed mids and pleasing non fatiguing treble, not ultra bright like the graphene or EMX500


----------



## PacoBdn

chinmie said:


> at first when i got them, i thought the mids are laid back and the treble a bit rolled off, but at the time i was listening to the graphene. but after lately listening to the puresound ps100-500, the svara has more or less the same level of mids and treble to it, but with lot bigger bass. the svara has good detailed mids and pleasing non fatiguing treble, not ultra bright like the graphene or EMX500



Could we say that the treble of the Svara are similar to those of EB200?

Thx


----------



## chinmie

PacoBdn said:


> Could we say that the treble of the Svara are similar to those of EB200?
> 
> Thx



unfortunately i've never tried the eb200


----------



## fairx

I own eb200 for quite some time now. Very rich sound. But bass can destroy mids if pushed. At least on mine. Listening to modern edm almost impossible at loud volume. IMO classic rock is very very good.


----------



## PacoBdn

fairx said:


> I own eb200 for quite some time now. Very rich sound. But bass can destroy mids if pushed. At least on mine. Listening to modern edm almost impossible at loud volume. IMO classic rock is very very good.


For me, I think they lack detail. They are overly relaxed, sound similar to the Senn HD-650. With instrumental songs they go quite well and with bad recordings too, but if you like the detail and the recording is good, they lack.
My current reference is the MX760 Graphene, which I have to say that I find exceptional. The configuration that I liked the most has been placing a complete foam and a donut on top. It gives them more body and slightly softens the treble, without losing detail.


----------



## PacoBdn

I would like to know if there is anything above the worthy MX760 Graphene worth before reaching the Cypherus Campfred2, etc. Or the differences are going to be very small and not worth spending more money and better save for some Cypherus.


----------



## seanc6441

PacoBdn said:


> I would like to know if there is anything above the worthy MX760 Graphene worth before reaching the Cypherus Campfred2, etc. Or the differences are going to be very small and not worth spending more money and better save for some Cypherus.


Shozy Cygnus? I'll have the Cygnus, Stardust, Graphene to join my Masya in my collection soon to compare if you want to wait a week or two.


----------



## PacoBdn

seanc6441 said:


> Shozy Cygnus? I'll have the Cygnus, Stardust, Graphene to join my Masya in my collection soon to compare if you want to wait a week or two.



Thank you very much, I just hope they arrive before 11/11, you know ...


----------



## xavierng1

seanc6441 said:


> Shozy Cygnus? I'll have the Cygnus, Stardust, Graphene to join my Masya in my collection soon to compare if you want to wait a week or two.



looking forward to the comparisons!  Might get the Shozy BK if it is good! (My poor wallet)


----------



## thelonius97

With 52 votes, the Monk+ is the lowest rated earbud in the survey (2.9 in tier 5). But the actual lowest rating in the survey is the Tomahawk at 2.79 in tier 4.

Anyone who hasn't voted yet, please do so- *Link*


----------



## waynes world (Oct 29, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> (radiohead, pink floyd etc)



My kinda music! Love those bands, and other older progressive rock bands as well as more recent such as Porcupine Tree.

Great "prog" thread here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/prog-rock.211107/



seanc6441 said:


> UPDATE: It turns out I'm just the fool who didn't realise spotify was set to normal quality instead of extreme... After reinstalling the app I assumed it saved my preferences in my profile, apparently not. Now on extreme everything sounds lovely, i'd be hard pressed to notice much difference between this and lossless on tidal from my phone. More high end equipment could probably pick up the difference easier though. Now i'm somewhat satisfied again, except for the vocals which still sound too thin



That's a good story lol! I had the Tidal hifi (lossless) subscription for about a year, but at the time couldn't justify the monthly fee, so I dropped down to the regular premium account which is at 320kbps (like your spotify account) and I have been happy with it. So I'm glad that you figured out what was going on, and that you're still happy with your 320kbps streaming.

I agree with your thinking about the iphone. I had mainly been using DAPs, but lately I've been using my S7 edge (exynos) more lately. I actually enjoy the SQ quite a bit, and I enjoy streaming tidal etc, so I find myself lusting for another DAP to be lessening. But the Cayin N3 continues to intrigue me because (a) it is not too expensive ($150); (b) it sounds great; (c) the N3 supports bluetooth (in aptx) if you're into bluetooth headphones; (d) you can stream spotify/tidal from your phone to the N3 (but sadly it doesn't receive in aptx mode - not yet sure how much that matters); (e) you can use your phone as a remote control via the hiby app to control the N3. So many good features with that little beast!


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 29, 2017)

waynes world said:


> My kinda music! Love those bands, and other older progressive rock bands as well as more recent such as Porcupine Tree.
> 
> Great "prog" thread here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/prog-rock.211107/
> ...



I think as phone audio components continues to improve the harder it is to justify a portable DAP unless you spend big money. But my reason for sticking to the 6s is mainly because I don't want to carry around a phone and a DAP in my pocket just to listen on the go, doesn't seem sensible for my uses.

As for my music preferences, I discovered Radiohead first when I was maybe 14 years old. I was hooked within 3 tracks, and yes the first one was CREEP ( G0d help me  ), then 'no surprises' and 'street spirit'. Now I've DL'ed all thier albums and listen to their music more than anything else in my collection. But lately I gave Pink Floyd more of a listen and I'm also hooked on their stuff. Amazing artists indeed.

As you suggested me to visit that thread and I will! . I will suggest to you to check out an Artist named Michael Kiwanuka, specifically his tracks 'Love & Hate' and 'Cold Little Heart' off of the Album of the same name (Love & Hate). Amazing artist and definitely worth a listen if you get the chance 

His alternate 'studio' versions that are even superior IMO. Check them out of youtube.


----------



## Danneq

thelonius97 said:


> With 52 votes, the Monk+ is the lowest rated earbud in the survey (2.9 in tier 5). But the actual lowest rating in the survey is the Tomahawk at 2.79 in tier 4.
> 
> Anyone who hasn't voted yet, please do so- *Link*



I feel sorry for the Tomahawks! With the right genre (metal) they are really great. Also if they were around $20-25 they might get more love...


----------



## Shadee13

Hello everyone!

I've been following this thread since late August on a daily basis and now I've decided to finally make an account and join the conversation!

I would like to start with a question:
How do the Moondrop Nameless compare with the EMX500? (NiceHCK DIY version)
I have my eyes on many earbuds but these two I am most interested about for my next purchase.

I'm a proud Vido owner since September. They are my first and only earbud for now.
If someone could compare the previous two with the Vido I would be very happy.


----------



## seanc6441

Shadee13 said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> I've been following this thread since late August on a daily basis and now I've decided to finally make an account and join the conversation!
> 
> ...



I'll wait for others to chime in because I only own emx500 and vido (not nameless) but I think EMX500 is similar to vido's sound signature but a slight upgrade in resolution and detail. So if your looking for a direct upgrade, maybe emx500 is perfect. Moondrop Nameless, whilst I do not own in, probably is considered 1 class above emx500. Nameless is compared to DIY Graphene but smoother sound (as described by ClieOS)

Also, welcome to the headfi earbud thread


----------



## vladstef (Oct 29, 2017)

Shadee13 said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> I've been following this thread since late August on a daily basis and now I've decided to finally make an account and join the conversation!
> 
> ...



Can't say much about Nameless (though I hear it's a lot more mid-focused earbud compared to these 2), it obviously has the best build quality of the bunch. Sound wise, EMX500 hits all the right spots for me and I find Vido very boring after listening to EMX which has more energy in the upper mid-range and treble, although it's never piercing, it's perhaps mildly bright. Having said that, EMX also gives more details and this balances its bass quantity quite nicely without drowning out mid range. The only problem with EMX is that it tends to start rattling very soon when pushed (this is often not too hard to fix but requires opening them up).


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 29, 2017)

If Vido is your preferred sound, go for emx500. But if Vido is your first earbud, try something else budget priced first like diy PK2, monk plus etc. That way you can test vs. your vido to find out your favourite sound signature and upgrade accordingly from there.

If I was you, I'd wait for 11.11 sales and buy a bunch of earbuds based off suggesions here from Aliexpress. Get 4 cheap earbuds with all different sound signatures and see what you actually like.

In my case, what I thought I liked before I tried these earbuds and what I actually liked were not the same thing.


----------



## gazzington

I wonder why monks aren't scoring so well. For the price they are great


----------



## Shadee13

seanc6441 said:


> In my case, what I thought I liked before I tried these earbuds and what I actually liked were not the same thing.



Thanks for the advice, you're right. I can't say I know what I like, yet. 

The DIY PK2 have been on my radar as well. I'll probably pick them up during the sale.

I was thinking about the Graphene, but I'm worried that they might be too bright for me.
Before discovering this thread I was an IEM guy. I have owned a SoundMagic E10S for 3 years now and I love them. (They have a pretty dark sound signature, though)
A few months ago I tried my friend's Xiaomi Hybrid Pro and their sound was very fatiguing to me. I have never heard such a bright IEM before and needless to say I didn't like them.

That's why every single time I hear someone mention a bright sound signature I freak out a little, because I instantly imagine the Hybrid Pro. (probably the highest extreme)


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 29, 2017)

Shadee13 said:


> Thanks for the advice, you're right. I can't say I know what I like, yet.
> 
> The DIY PK2 have been on my radar as well. I'll probably pick them up during the sale.
> 
> ...


Well I need to test my Graphene and Shozy Cygnus amongst other buds so I'll know soon how bright they are.

I don't think there is an earbud I own that's too bright when using the right foams, however sometimes to compensate for brightness with full or heigi foam means you sacrifice some clarity.

Monk plus is dark sounding, neutral-warm tonality. Roll of in the bass and treble thus being mid centric somewhat. I still enjoyed the sound though, it's a very enjoyable earbud just nothing astounding except it's mid range presentation and relaxed delicate highs. It's nice, if nice is what you're settling for.

DIY PK2 is bright sounding but also neutral-warm tonality. Balanced with nice treble extension and sparkle. Lacking in sub bass and modest mid bass thump. Not for bass heads but for most it's quite good. Vocals can be very very slightly muddy at times though unfortunately, yet still hold detail at other times funnily enough. It's energy and musical sound is awesome though, it's my favourite budget bud so far easily.

But with some earbuds that are bright and neutral to cold tonality I dislike the sound signature.

I think Vido was pretty nice neutral-warm but I found it grainy. EMX500 is a clear upgrade with a similar but better sound quality imo. I don't need to explain emx500 to a vido user. It's an upgraded vido with better extension in the highs, better resolution, slightly better balanced U shaped sound signature. Vocals are recessed slightly or atleast they are not forward. I don't find it's sound very natural or musical though. Just my own gripe. That's my main complaint and why I don't use this earbud.

For what it's worth Graphene is supposed to be awesome. Get it for €19 during 11.11 and get a ve monk ex pack for the best foams. Better than heigi foams for added spongy thick donut foams, also you get the super clear sounding thin foams.


----------



## Shadee13

Yup, my problem with the Hybrid Pro was probably that they sounded very cold to my ears.

I will definitely pick up the EMX500 at some point (even if not as my next buds), they sound like a must-have.

I'm rocking the Vidos without any foams and I like them. I tried them with the included foams the day they arrived but I preferred them naked. The foams sit in my drawer ever since.

That reminds me: Do you know where I could buy all kinds of foams NOT in bulk? Sellers on Aliexpress sell huge packs and mostly just full foams. I would try some donut foams on the Vido.


----------



## seanc6441

Shadee13 said:


> Yup, my problem with the Hybrid Pro was probably that they sounded very cold to my ears.
> 
> I will definitely pick up the EMX500 at some point (even if not as my next buds), they sound like a must-have.
> 
> ...


If you like no foams you'll love VE monk pack for it's thin foams. It seals better than no foams, doesn't lose any clarity and gives a slightly thicker sound to your buds. I personally could never use earbuds without some kind of foams, they sound thin or are uncomfortable to me. But I love the VE monk ex pack because you get really good donut foams (best for bass emphasis) and the only thin foams worth using (excellent clarity) and you also get some full foams, rubber ear tips and rings to make earbud bigger if needed.

I'd recommend buying 2 ex packs at the sane time, each cost €3 but you save on shipping which is €4.


----------



## gazzington

Hmm next purchase either Cygnus or rose masya. Which would you all recommend?


----------



## seanc6441

gazzington said:


> Hmm next purchase either Cygnus or rose masya. Which would you all recommend?



Getting my Cygnus in a few days stay tuned for a comparison to masya + Stardust


----------



## Shadee13

I completely forgot that VE sells an accessory pack, thanks for reminding me. 
They probably won't have a sale on 11.11. so I'll go and order them right away.


----------



## gazzington

Which do prefer between stardust and masya?


----------



## ZYReady

springbay said:


> So I saw that HCK listed the new Moondrop TOTL buds called Liebesleid.
> I can't help but think that the word they were looking for was liebeslied and not liebesleid.
> Anyhow, for the asking price they better bring joy and not sorrow.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...3-5mm-Dynamic-Driver/1825606_32815340879.html



Well, from what I know, they did mean to use this word. And they probably wanna call it “Sorrow of Love.”


----------



## seanc6441

gazzington said:


> Which do prefer between stardust and masya?


Stardust and cygnus arriving this week. Then I'll compare to masya I already own.


----------



## wskl

Shadee13 said:


> That reminds me: Do you know where I could buy all kinds of foams NOT in bulk? Sellers on Aliexpress sell huge packs and mostly just full foams. I would try some donut foams on the Vido.



In addition to the EX Pack recommendations, for non-bulk orders of foams, I get mine from here (min 10 pairs).

Donuts - https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ers-Tips-For-Earphone/518946_32683389893.html

Regular foams - https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...overs-Eartips-Earcaps/518946_32671911259.html


----------



## waynes world (Oct 29, 2017)

@seanc6441 ,  for a relative newby, you are providing a lot of good input to peeps. Keep it up!



seanc6441 said:


> As for my music preferences, I discovered Radiohead first when I was maybe 14 years old. I was hooked within 3 tracks, and yes the first one was CREEP ( G0d help me  ), then 'no surprises' and 'street spirit'. Now I've DL'ed all thier albums and listen to their music more than anything else in my collection. But lately I gave Pink Floyd more of a listen and I'm also hooked on their stuff. Amazing artists indeed.



Yeah, Radiohead is simply epic. Pink Floyd ain't so bad either lol.



> As you suggested me to visit that thread and I will! . I will suggest to you to check out an Artist named Michael Kiwanuka, specifically his tracks 'Love & Hate' and 'Cold Little Heart' off of the Album of the same name (Love & Hate). Amazing artist and definitely worth a listen if you get the chance
> 
> His alternate 'studio' versions that are even superior IMO. Check them out of youtube.



I like his biography (on Tidal). Cool. Listening to his albums now. Yup - really good. Thanks for pointing him out!

Some more Porcupine Tree info in the spoiler..



Spoiler: PT & Steven Wilson tunes..



Porcupine Tree (and Steven Wilson) are like Radiohead for me: epic. Here are few..





All of the musicians are awesome. I've never seen PT live, but was lucky enough to see Gavin Harrison (the drummer) play with King Crimson a couple of years ago, and also see Steven Wilson (the mastermind) a few years ago.

Steven Wilson is the mastermind of PT, and his solo career since disbanding PT is also amazing. Below are a couple of his solo tunes. If you ever get a chance to see him, do so.





Enjoy!


----------



## SweetEars

j4100 said:


> I'm waiting on my Shozy BK's arriving, but look what showed up early. The seahf AWK-F150C and NiceHCK Graphene earbuds. Need to do some listening and I guess some burning in.



pls post detailed review vs emx500 if u can


----------



## SweetEars (Oct 29, 2017)

gazzington said:


> I wonder why monks aren't scoring so well. For the price they are great



i have both the monks and EMX500. The emx 500 clearly walks all over the monk, its  2 step up the monk. Unlike the monks  the emx500 does well in all hardware. The monks can do well but only if properly driven . They are 64 ohms


----------



## SweetEars

can someone post a detailed comparison between EMx500, Ry4s, Graphene mx760 ?


----------



## j4100

SweetEars said:


> pls post detailed review vs emx500 if u can



Sorry, I don't have EMX500


----------



## calico88

does anyone ever review earbud drivers ? or top 10 drivers  ?
any link?


----------



## Shadee13

Around two weeks ago I recabled my Vidos.
I did it mainly for aesthetics but it helped to clean up the lower-end.
The bass is more detailed and less boomy.
IMO for €7 it was worth it.

Pics:


Spoiler


----------



## Danneq

Nice!

I've got an unused black braided cable from when I recabled a pair of old Aiwas (bought 2 cables to be on the safe side). Might give it a go at one of my pairs of Vidos. I've got one blue and one white pair and the blue one might work with the black braided cable...


----------



## cathee

quick Q: 

anyone know where i can get these spinning earbud cases?


----------



## j4100 (Oct 30, 2017)

golov17 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/MFbuuMri



Bargain! How thick are they?

Oops! Replying to an old post. Forgot I had two pages open


----------



## Danneq

cathee said:


> quick Q:
> 
> anyone know where i can get these spinning earbud cases?




Old Sony earbuds such as E828 usually came with such wind-up cases. Such cases were quite common from the 80's until the late 90's. Nowadays you might be lucky to find something on Ebay. A pair of E828 with wind-up case usually costs around $30. When it comes to sound, I personally don't think it's worth it but you could keep looking and you might be lucky and find something cheaper.


----------



## golov17

j4100 said:


> Bargain! How thick are they?
> 
> Oops! Replying to an old post. Forgot I had two pages open


Thin, closer to MP


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 30, 2017)

@waynes world Before I found this site I had an earbud shaped hole in my heart! lol. I'm grateful there's like minded people on here who love their earbuds as much as me 

But thanks for the compliment man

As for the music, I'll listen to it twice as I always find with some tracks you need to hear it again before you decide if you like it or not  On first listen I wasn't really feeling it but I will listen again and see what I think.


----------



## voxdub

Shadee13 said:


> Around two weeks ago I recabled my Vidos.
> I did it mainly for aesthetics but it helped to clean up the lower-end.
> The bass is more detailed and less boomy.
> IMO for €7 it was worth it.
> ...


I'm blaming you, just cut the cable of a pair of IEMs which cost considerably more than the Vidos but that'll never be listened to again to recable mine. Was a PITA to solder as had no solder and the tip on my iron needs replacing but now have my favourite earbuds with a Y cable at long last. I received a new pair of emx500s 3 days ago and wish I hadn't bought them, prefer the Vidos now I compare them side by side.


----------



## waynes world

voxdub said:


> I'm blaming you, just cut the cable of a pair of IEMs which cost considerably more than the Vidos but that'll never be listened to again to recable mine. Was a PITA to solder as had no solder and the tip on my iron needs replacing but now have my favourite earbuds with a Y cable at long last. I received a new pair of emx500s 3 days ago and wish I hadn't bought them, prefer the Vidos now I compare them side by side.



Congrats on the recabling! Do your recabled Vidos sound any different than before? If not, I am a bit surprised that you are not liking the EMX500's compared to the Vidos. Then again, we all have our own tastes!


----------



## waynes world

golov17 said:


> spending money on a proven options



I like proven options! From the image, I gather they are Audio Technicas. Which ones? Thanks!


----------



## golov17

waynes world said:


> I like proven options! From the image, I gather they are Audio Technicas. Which ones? Thanks!


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1613#post-13814030


----------



## theoutsider (Oct 31, 2017)

Christmas came early this year...


----------



## chaiyuta

Nice TO200. I will try TO200 again.


----------



## theoutsider

chaiyuta said:


> Nice TO200. I will try TO200 again.


TO200 weighs less than Tomahawk but it is capable of delivering higher definition audio.


----------



## j4100

I have been reading through most of this year's posts on this thread and have an incredible urge to order a ton of new earbuds, mainly due to the enthusiasm of the contributors. However, since I am currently enjoying the seahf 150s (with FiiO X5ii and A3), I'm fighting of that urge. I also have the Graphene but prefer the 150 at the moment. Neither are properly burned in though. I also need to wait till the Shozy BKs arrive and I get a good listen to them.

11-11 is approaching and my will power isn't the best.


----------



## DBaldock9

j4100 said:


> I have been reading through most of this year's posts on this thread and have an incredible urge to order a ton of new earbuds, mainly due to the enthusiasm of the contributors. However, since I am currently enjoying the seahf 150s (with FiiO X5ii and A3), I'm fighting of that urge. I also have the Graphene but prefer the 150 at the moment. Neither are properly burned in though. I also need to wait till the Shozy BKs arrive and I get a good listen to them.
> 
> 11-11 is approaching and my will power isn't the best.



Hide your credit cards?


----------



## j4100 (Oct 31, 2017)

DBaldock9 said:


> Hide your credit cards?


A futile move 

I have to say, though I only have the monk to compare against (didn't really like that -too dark) the seahf  150 is sounding really good across a range of genres for me. Thin monk foam is best for me.


----------



## seanc6441

Received my Cygnus this morning but I will not review it. I noticed within a minute that there was a balance issue with the RL drivers. If I set the balance 5% to the left it fixes the issue... but then I realised it was not only unbalanced but also the left driver sounds echoy and hollow compared to the right... i A/B tested for the last hour using mono audio and 5% left channel balance and i'm 100% positive it's a faulty unit.

I messaged the seller hopefully we can come to a solution, pretty disappointing though


----------



## seanc6441

Just to be clear i'm not blaming the headfi seller, it's easy to become accustomed to channel imbalance or slightly sub par driver sq if you use the earbuds often. I probably noticed it because it was my first time hearing it.

Seller has almost a perfect history of selling so I hope this is just an unfortunate circumstance.


----------



## seanc6441

UPDATE: I took a chance that the driver membrane was pushed out somehow and decided to blow air into the grille in an attempt to correct it.

Amazingly this worked, the sound imbalance is gone and both channels sound good now.

This is a very odd issue but now it's completely gone, I told the seller as much and I'll be keeping these earbuds now and will review them soon.

All that matters is it's fixed now and I don't have the headache of disputing it.


----------



## waynes world

j4100 said:


> I have been reading through most of this year's posts on this thread and have an incredible urge to order a ton of new earbuds, mainly due to the enthusiasm of the contributors. However, since I am currently enjoying the seahf 150s (with FiiO X5ii and A3), I'm fighting of that urge. I also have the Graphene but prefer the 150 at the moment. Neither are properly burned in though. I also need to wait till the Shozy BKs arrive and I get a good listen to them.



The Seahf AWK-F150C is on my wishlist. How is the 150s different than the 150c?


----------



## j4100 (Oct 31, 2017)

waynes world said:


> The Seahf AWK-F150C is on my wishlist. How is the 150s different than the 150c?



Apologies for the mis-information. I only meant they were 150 plural. They are AWK-F150C buds.

I probably only had 5 hours or so burn in, though they have been running all day.


----------



## waynes world

j4100 said:


> Apologies for the mis-information. I only meant they were 150 plural. They are AWK-F150C buds.
> 
> I probably only had 5 hours or so burn in, though they have been running all day.



Excellent, thanks. You and hungrypanda and others seem to really like them, so it will probably have to be done!


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 31, 2017)

Enjoying the Cygnus now... it's like a DIY PK2 but with more sub bass and no sibilance yet still nice treble.

It's NOT a league ahead/class above Nicehck diy pk2 in SQ, but it irons out some of the kinks so to speak. So if you love the DIY PK2 (DIY Cygnus more like...) you'll appreciate the Cygnus a lot.

Compared to DIY PK2

- More sub bass
- Smoother, less sibilant sound
- Slightly less treble emphasis
- Overall slightly deeper tonality
- Similar clarity, being slightly smoother and deeper vocals come across slightly more natural, but not a huge difference overall
- Equal in energy, pk2 slightly more bright can be a good or bad thing depends on the listener.
- Nicer Cable, although both have nice cables. Cygnus has a very nice, soft cable.

If you own PK2 i wouldn't recommend upgrading to Cygnus, it's not enough of an upgrade and doesn't justify the price difference. However if you got a good deal on the cygnus it can be worth it. It's a more refined DIY PK2, Just not above it by $50 IMO. Better instead go for stardust maybe.

Since im giving my pk2 to family, im happy to have it's brother the cygnus in my collection so I won't be missing diy pk2 sound.

So that's my early impressions, I love it to be honest, but only at the €33 I spent. DIY PK2 at €13 in 11.11 is better value, at €19 vs €33 i think it's equal value considering cable difference and slight better sound of cygnus (really it's not much, some trebleheads may even prefer diy pk2).


----------



## Danneq

seanc6441 said:


> UPDATE: I took a chance that the driver membrane was pushed out somehow and decided to blow air into the grille in an attempt to correct it.
> 
> Amazingly this worked, the sound imbalance is gone and both channels sound good now.
> 
> ...




(In a Popeye voice) Well, blow me down!


----------



## PacoBdn

SweetEars said:


> can someone post a detailed comparison between EMx500, Ry4s, Graphene mx760 ?



We can say that the profile of both is similar.

We start from the base, that not all EMX500 sound exactly the same, we are talking about a DIY product and therefore each manufacturer uses different materials and how to assemble them. I say this because, starting from the basis that each person has a different ear, I have read that there are people who say that their bass is resounding and their highs are sibilants at times. I have not found any of these flaws in an obvious way, I am more inclined to think that it may be due to the recordings. It is true that they have a profile close to the "V", I say close because I do not think that the voices are so far apart, like the classic "V". I use a foam.

The Graphene as I said are very similar but much more refined. Their bass is faster, the voices are a little closer and their treble is of higher quality. They provide a sound in much more detail. For me, the profile is in "U" more than "V".

I have to say that as with the IEM, the configuration of foams that you choose will be decisive in the final result. To me personally, the configuration that I liked the most with Graphene has been with a full foam and on top of it a "donut". With this I have achieved that the bass and mid-bass have greater presence and the sound has more body.

To finish, tell you that they are the "upgrade" of the EMX500. I'm still waiting to know what is the next step to Graphene. Campfred2 maybe?


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 31, 2017)

Last update on Cygnus for tonight,

The most noticeable upgrade over diy pk2 is now the balance of all frequencies. Whilst overall the diy pk2 has decent balance, there are a few peaks in the treble region which cause the vocals to sound recessed and thus why I described them as congested in the past. The Cygnus fixes this issue by keeping all frequencies in balance and having a slighty wider soundstage. Whilst you don't get the same energy as the pk2 in the treble, you get pretty close and instead you gain beautiful balance between vocals and instruments and nothing feels too congested which was an issue with the pk2 at times. Clarity is equal on these buds, but vocals sound clearer on Cygnus because they are not fighting with the instruments for space.

These two earbuds really do sound remarkably similar in sound signature though. Tomorrow I may look at opening the second vent on pk2 shell to make it the same as cygnus and see if that improves the pk2 to cygnus level. I feel like that's part of the reason they sound different but so similar also.


----------



## voxdub

waynes world said:


> Congrats on the recabling! Do your recabled Vidos sound any different than before? If not, I am a bit surprised that you are not liking the EMX500's compared to the Vidos. Then again, we all have our own tastes!


I do like the EMX500s just probably thinking like this because the last time I had a pair was before the Vidos and remember them being miles better than anything in the price range, there's two things I prefer about the Vidos - the treble is more rolled off, on the EMX500s it can be fatiguing at times, and the microphonics from the cable annoy the hell out of me, I've ordered new cable and shells for them to try.
The Vidos recabled sound quite a bit different, not necessarily in a good way, the highs are more recessed than before which is a shame, the bass is less boomy but the overall signature has gone warmer than before, soundstage sounds wider too, this might just be down to my bungled attempt to recable though, have 3 more pairs on the way plus various diy cables as well as a new soldering iron and some decent solder, now the waiting game starts.


----------



## eaglesgift

DBaldock9 said:


> Hide your credit cards?


It's funny how technology has changed saving strategies, for me at least. Years ago, the easiest way for me to save was to keep my money in the bank. Recently, I've found it much easier to cut down on spending by taking nearly all my money out every month and keeping it in a box at home (actually that's not a new way of saving of course, my great uncle used to keep thousands under his bed). It might sound ridiculous and probably is but I make all of my unnecessary purchases online so emptying my account is a very effective way to keep my spending in check.

Still managed to order the Graphenes a couple of weeks ago though and they'll be arriving tomorrow by the look of it


----------



## cqtek (Oct 31, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> Last update on Cygnus for tonight,
> 
> The most noticeable upgrade over diy pk2 is now the balance of all frequencies. Whilst overall the diy pk2 has decent balance, there are a few peaks in the treble region which cause the vocals to sound recessed and thus why I described them as congested in the past. The Cygnus fixes this issue by keeping all frequencies in balance and having a slighty wider soundstage. Whilst you don't get the same energy as the pk2 in the treble, you get pretty close and instead you gain beautiful balance between vocals and instruments and nothing feels too congested which was an issue with the pk2 at times. Clarity is equal on these buds, but vocals sound clearer on Cygnus because they are not fighting with the instruments for space.
> 
> These two earbuds really do sound remarkably similar in sound signature though. Tomorrow I may look at opening the second vent on pk2 shell to make it the same as cygnus and see if that improves the pk2 to cygnus level. I feel like that's part of the reason they sound different but so similar also.



Hello.

Please, what is the pk2 model that you are talking about? Is this?

https://es.aliexpress.com/store/pro...108.1000016.1.16488e35XFR3ge&isOrigTitle=true

Do you have also NiceHCK Panda PK2s? I have they and I think that vocals are muddy, they are not so special. I prefer EMX500 or EB200, also Qian69 are better.

Nobody has tried yet EMXs500?

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/AK-E...res-Graves-Auriculares-de-DJ/32836652079.html


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 31, 2017)

cqtek said:


> Hello.
> 
> Please, what is the pk2 model that you are talking about? Is this?
> 
> ...



Yes it's that version and no I do not have Panda Pk2s.

Vocals are detailed on diy pk2 but congested by overpowered instruments because of some peaks and dips I think.

I will try opening 2nd vent on back tomorrow to see what affect it has on it.

DIY PK2 is really good like Cygnus except too congested and lacking some sub bass.

I can live with the soundstage, not as wide as cygnus but still deep and makes for more intimate listening. Cygnus still slightly better, width helps with separation and still feels intimate but with some breathing room.

If Cygnus is worth $60 i think diy pk2 is worth atleast $35-40. It's a good earbud for $20 and even cheaper during 11.11 sale.

Needs 100+ burn in, monk thin foams + monk thin donut cut foam for clarity + bass. Sound signature is identical to Cygnus just less sub bass, more treble. But overall they sound like same driver different tuning!

If you can't afford shozy cygnus/stardust or need a cheaper option then DIY PK2 is like budget shozy earbud IMO.


----------



## DBaldock9

theoutsider said:


> Christmas came early this year...



I have a set on order, along with a Zishan Z2 (to modify).  
How do yours sound?


----------



## cqtek (Oct 31, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> Yes it's that version and no I do not have Panda Pk2s.
> I will try opening 2nd vent on back tomorrow to see what affect it has on it.



Thanks. I think that really PK2s and PK2 are different, probably I will try. I read in older post that you have the version 3 (with copper cable).

I also have this model (black brown pk1), but they sound more congested with forward vocals but they are unclear, with more low midrange presence. PK2s has similar signature, better vocals definition but slightly more recessed. More clearly midrange. Now I'm using monk thin foams with donuts.

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/2017...Plug-Earplugs-Headset-Earbud/32823569005.html







According with this image MX500 PK1 sounds "boomines". PK2s sounds more natural. But I must admit that that sound "hooks me" in some way.
I advise to use with a DAP with flat sound, not warm, to improve in clarity. I am currently using FX-Audio DAC-X6 with good results. With Zishan Z2 I prefer other earbuds.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 31, 2017)

cqtek said:


> Thanks. I think that really PK2s and PK2 are different, probably I will try. I read in older post that you have the version 3 (with copper cable).
> 
> I also have this model (black brown pk1), but they sound more congested with forward vocals but they are unclear, with more low midrange presence. PK2s has similar signature, better vocals definition but slightly more recessed. More clearly midrange. Now I'm using monk thin foams with donuts.
> 
> ...


Make sure to use monk thin foam and above it use another monk thin foam but cut hole for donut (same size as hole on back). Using full donut (like heigi) on pk2 kills any clarity.

You may also notice diy pk2 will sound clear and detailed for some tracks (single acoustic guitar and vocals for example) but becomes congested on complex music. Shozy cygnus is less congested so can be used on many tracks of different genres.

I agree it needs balanced neutral source. My iphone 6s is very nice for cygnus, but warm sources not so much because the earbud is warm already, cygnus is darker sound slightly but still great. More balanced than bright or dark.

The sound signature is very intriguing indeed. It's like shozy house signature but in pk2 there's more treble less sub bass. In Cygnus it's balanced.

Try Cygnus or Stardust if you love this sound.

Or wait tomorrow I will attempt to mod diy pk2 shelk to get it closer to cygnus balance.

Cygnus has 2 open vents on back, diy pk2 only has one open.


----------



## euge (Nov 1, 2017)

cqtek said:


> Thanks. I think that really PK2s and PK2 are different, probably I will try. I read in older post that you have the version 3 (with copper cable).
> 
> I also have this model (black brown pk1), but they sound more congested with forward vocals but they are unclear, with more low midrange presence. PK2s has similar signature, better vocals definition but slightly more recessed. More clearly midrange. Now I'm using monk thin foams with donuts.
> 
> ...



I have the PK2s and Shozy BK, the BK has better bass, but treble seems rolled off.
PK2s extended treble compared to the BK gives it a slightly better soundstage than the BK I think.

piano sounds really sweet on the BK!


I use heigi donuts for both, monk thin foam itches my ear after a while lol.


----------



## theoutsider

DBaldock9 said:


> I have a set on order, along with a Zishan Z2 (to modify).
> How do yours sound?


They sound great with my vanilla Zishan Z2. I only have it for a few hours now. Without any burn-in, they are detailed sounding and not sibilant.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

The ZX1 is a unique earbud with its nice design, good materials, tough build quality and uncommon sound signature.

I will admit, I was drawn to the wood chin slider at first glance. The ZX1 really does set itself apart with its earthy looks, soft pliable cables and top end materials. Following the braided wire brings you to the large, heavy and wonderful 3.5mm plug, which is overbuilt and feels great in the hand. From head to toe, this is one well put together earbud.

Sound might leave users polarized, as it has a distinct signature. Bass is almost forgotten, as lows are not displayed with much emphasis and will leave some people wanting more. Mids on the other hand take up a large portion of the playback. Vocals are in your face and can be described as on the thin side. Moving on to the highs, there is no lack of detail, though it can be a touch bright at times. Soundstage seems to be slightly condensed, though not congested.

This is an earbud for someone who appreciates a high end natural build, with sound characteristics that lean towards the mids and highs. It is a signature that might interest some users, though, it left me wishing the sound matched the warmer looks.

















--


----------



## xavierng1

eaglesgift said:


> It's funny how technology has changed saving strategies, for me at least. Years ago, the easiest way for me to save was to keep my money in the bank. Recently, I've found it much easier to cut down on spending by taking nearly all my money out every month and keeping it in a box at home (actually that's not a new way of saving of course, my great uncle used to keep thousands under his bed). It might sound ridiculous and probably is but I make all of my unnecessary purchases online so emptying my account is a very effective way to keep my spending in check.
> 
> Still managed to order the Graphenes a couple of weeks ago though and they'll be arriving tomorrow by the look of it



#lifeprotips right there hahahaha


----------



## damex (Nov 1, 2017)

so now i have many monk/monk plus... and i like original monk with thick foams.
i also have Shozy Cygnus and recently ordered/got VE Zen 2.0 and K's 300 Samsara.

is there something else i could get for myself? some 'different' 'totl' earbuds? maybe upgrade cygnus to bk? is there something else i could get?
looking to spend some extra cash for nice totl earbuds.


----------



## letlive

I have the Fengru EMX500 which I really like. Now I'm looking for an EMX500 with Mic.

I found these:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...ass-Earbuds-DJ-Earbuds-Heavy/32789344867.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...315.html?spm=2114.12010611.0.0.1c85c183auXeK6

What do you recommend?


----------



## SweetEars

PacoBdn said:


> We can say that the profile of both is similar.
> 
> We start from the base, that not all EMX500 sound exactly the same, we are talking about a DIY product and therefore each manufacturer uses different materials and how to assemble them. I say this because, starting from the basis that each person has a different ear, I have read that there are people who say that their bass is resounding and their highs are sibilants at times. I have not found any of these flaws in an obvious way, I am more inclined to think that it may be due to the recordings. It is true that they have a profile close to the "V", I say close because I do not think that the voices are so far apart, like the classic "V". I use a foam.
> 
> ...




thank you. because i read someconflicting reviews on the graphene  a sin they are lacking bass.....


----------



## acap13

SweetEars said:


> thank you. because i read someconflicting reviews on the graphene  a sin they are lacking bass.....



Probably, I presume those conflicting impressions coming from those who have adjusted to the likes of EMX500 and Vido type of bass. Graphene do not lack in bass quality. Quantity? Maybe to some due to sound preferences and source pairings.IMHO


----------



## SweetEars

acap13 said:


> Probably, I presume those conflicting impressions coming from those who have adjusted to the likes of EMX500 and Vido type of bass. Graphene do not lack in bass quality. Quantity? Maybe to some due to sound preferences and source pairings.IMHO



do they have sub bass and treble sparkle?


----------



## acap13

SweetEars said:


> do they have sub bass and treble sparkle?



Honestly, earbuds are really hard to grab the sub bass region due to lack of sealing design. I could only say, it is as close to reach sub bass as an earbud could get. Tight and speedy. Treble regions are very exceptionally sparkle. Slow roll off up top


----------



## SweetEars

acap13 said:


> Honestly, earbuds are really hard to grab the sub bass region due to lack of sealing design. I could only say, it is as close to reach sub bass as an earbud could get. Tight and speedy. Treble regions are very exceptionally sparkle. Slow roll off up top


 
i love the emx 500 sound. so will this mx760 graphene take it further at all   all levels ? 
how about the depth and transpacency clarity fo the mx760?


----------



## chaiyuta

Graphene is lack of sub-bass impact. Its bass is as same level as typical toneking or music maker earbuds. (feel likes hand clap not hitting on drum) It is not fun for EDM songs. However its resolution is really beyond its price position.


----------



## SweetEars

chaiyuta said:


> Graphene is lack of sub-bass impact. Its bass is as same level as typical toneking or music maker earbuds. (feel likes hand clap not hitting on drum) It is not fun for EDM songs. However its resolution is really beyond its price position.



sub bass and sparkle are important to me.. should i buy the R4YS then


----------



## chaiyuta

You could get treble sparkle from DIY Graphene... For R4YS, I've never known before.


----------



## acap13

chaiyuta said:


> Graphene is lack of sub-bass impact. Its bass is as same level as typical toneking or music maker earbuds. (feel likes hand clap not hitting on drum) It is not fun for EDM songs. However its resolution is really beyond its price position.



What @chaiyuta  said is right. For EDM and heavy bass tracks are not very good rendered by Graphene. Better stick with EMX500 for that. Other than that, Graphene is a gem to my ear.


----------



## SweetEars

acap13 said:


> What @chaiyuta  said is right. For EDM and heavy bass tracks are not very good rendered by Graphene. Better stick with EMX500 for that. Other than that, Graphene is a gem to my ear.


thanks..i AM MOSTLY LOOKING FOR same sound sig as emx500 but overall more clearer and aticulated...any other earbuds fit my expectations? 
the only other i can think of R4YS


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 1, 2017)

damex said:


> so now i have many monk/monk plus... and i like original monk with thick foams.
> i also have Shozy Cygnus and recently ordered/got VE Zen 2.0 and K's 300 Samsara.
> 
> is there something else i could get for myself? some 'different' 'totl' earbuds? maybe upgrade cygnus to bk? is there something else i could get?
> looking to spend some extra cash for nice totl earbuds.





damex said:


> so now i have many monk/monk plus... and i like original monk with thick foams.
> i also have Shozy Cygnus and recently ordered/got VE Zen 2.0 and K's 300 Samsara.
> 
> is there something else i could get for myself? some 'different' 'totl' earbuds? maybe upgrade cygnus to bk? is there something else i could get?
> looking to spend some extra cash for nice totl earbuds.



How does the Samsara sound? Because I know/have heard that Zen2.0 and Cygnus aren't exactly analytical buds. You don't seem to have any analytical type earbud so maybe go for Moondrop Liebesleid/Rose Mojito? Very expensive though but you seem to suggest price isn't a concern. If it is maybe go for Shozy bk stardust.

I'll let you know in a few days if Shozy Stardust is a good choice when they arrive to me


----------



## noknok23

BloodyPenguin said:


> The ZX1 is a unique earbud with its nice design, good materials, tough build quality and uncommon sound signature.
> 
> I will admit, I was drawn to the wood chin slider at first glance. The ZX1 really does set itself apart with its earthy looks, soft pliable cables and top end materials. Following the braided wire brings you to the large, heavy and wonderful 3.5mm plug, which is overbuilt and feels great in the hand. From head to toe, this is one well put together earbud.
> 
> ...


they look like a rebranded version of this mysterious MX500

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...32820402745.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.j02WGY


I've been eying them for some time because of the warm sexy look and the rave about the original mx500, it looks like they are not that worth it...
a guy on the facebook group said they weren't good either...
Thanks a lot for the help @BloodyPenguin !!


----------



## waynes world

SweetEars said:


> thanks..i AM MOSTLY LOOKING FOR same sound sig as emx500 but overall more clearer and aticulated...any other earbuds fit my expectations?
> the only other i can think of R4YS



You just described the graphenes 

Sure, maybe the graphenes bass is not quite at the amount of the emx500's, but it is more nuanced and detailed (I think "articulated" was the word you used!). Same with the highs.


----------



## acap13

SweetEars said:


> thanks..i AM MOSTLY LOOKING FOR same sound sig as emx500 but overall more clearer and aticulated...any other earbuds fit my expectations?
> the only other i can think of R4YS



The very least thing I could think of, you could have stated your budget expectation for the thing you are looking for. Its quite hard actually to recommend something you desire for without stating the budget because I'm very close to recommend something much pricier than EMX500. BTW, sorry because I've never listened to R4YS.


----------



## HungryPanda

Seahf AWK-F32T, Seahf AWK- F64 or FAAEAL Snow-lotus 2.0 64 ohm for the bass you seek


----------



## jogawag (Nov 1, 2017)

*The following is *the improved version* of  the cheapest and sure way to make *JAWS Silicon Cover* for Rose Mojito / Masya.
 I can not feel deterioration of sound quality even using this earpiece.

1. Buy at http://m.aliexpress.com/item//32675489785.html.
2. Apply half of them red oil-based pens, wait a little and wipe off. (They will be pink for the right side.)
3. Cut out *a hole of sufficient size* with scissors.
4. Fits into Rose Mojito / Masya.
5. When pushing Earbuds with Cover into your ear, make sure to push Earbud from diagonally below.
   This will cause the protruding portion of the top of the Cover to shrink and get caught in the ear hole and will not fall off the ear.


----------



## mochill

seanc6441 said:


> How does the Samsara sound? Because I know/have heard that Zen2.0 and Cygnus aren't exactly analytical buds. You don't seem to have any analytical type earbud so maybe go for Moondrop Liebesleid/Rose Mojito? Very expensive though but you seem to suggest price isn't a concern. If it is maybe go for Shozy bk stardust.
> 
> I'll let you know in a few days if Shozy Stardust is a good choice when they arrive to me


Puresounds ps600 , shozy stardust, mojito


----------



## jogawag

acap13 said:


> BTW, sorry because I've never listened to R4YS.


I have RY4 S and EMX500, but when I compare them I feel like the following.
RY4S = EMX500 + Bass with punch - Clear treble - Deep bass


----------



## ld100

Wow. Haven't checked in a few months and these is so many new earbuds! Is there anything that is a must have under $60 or so that I don't have to read last 500 pages?


----------



## seanc6441

ld100 said:


> Wow. Haven't checked in a few months and these is so many new earbuds! Is there anything that is a must have under $60 or so that I don't have to read last 500 pages?



Nicehck DIY Graphene on Aliexpress. €25 but wait 10 days for the 11.11 sale and it will drop to €19 which is what like $22? A bargain and apparently an excellent earbud for the price (mine is on the way).

Other than that I would say personally I'd check out the DIY PK2 also from Nicehck for €13 during the sale. Version 2/3 has the nice cables. I bought version 3 copper cable twisted cable. It's very nice. Sound is similar to Shozy Cygnus but less sub bass and more treble. Still a great earbud for the price and very energetic for rock/acoustic it's awesome since instruments unfortunetly overpower vocals slighty (Cygnus avoids this issue).


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 1, 2017)

I modded my DIY Pk2 today when I had some free time. I'll show pics tomorrow but it involved drilling a bass port on the bottom and another on the vent at the back.

Now there's more emphasis in the bass, sub bass can be heard now and mid bass is slightly more boomy. To keep the bass clean you need to use monk thin foams, heigi will make it sound overpowering. Also there is more air about the instruments and vocals which makes the sound as a whole slightly less congested than before. It seems drilling either a port on the back or bottom alone actually decresed the sound quality, but drilling both has balanced out the sound with losing too much energy and precision of each note (still sounds tight in the mids/high's, but more open in the lows).

Overall the change brings it a step closer to Cygnus, but still the issue of instruments overpowering vocals remains. That seems to be a driver tuning flaw. Although it's not quite as pronounced as before either.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Nicehck DIY Graphene on Aliexpress. €25 but wait 10 days for the 11.11 sale and it will drop to €19 which is what like $22? A bargain and apparently an excellent earbud for the price (mine is on the way).



I sure you don't hate them when you get them lol! Btw, it doesn't hurt if one asks Jim nicely for a headfi discount


----------



## chinmie

SweetEars said:


> thanks..i AM MOSTLY LOOKING FOR same sound sig as emx500 but overall more clearer and aticulated...any other earbuds fit my expectations?
> the only other i can think of R4YS



the Graphene is more polished sounding to the EMX500, but with less sub bass volume. it still reaches deep, but the volume is tone down a little compared to the EMX500. 

other suggestion is the Willsound MK2 from Indonesia. i personally think it is a direct step up from the EMX500


----------



## HungryPanda

Curse you head-fi, work dilemma


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> the Graphene is more polished sounding to the EMX500, but with less sub bass volume. it still reaches deep, but the volume is tone down a little compared to the EMX500.
> 
> other suggestion is the Willsound MK2 from Indonesia. i personally think it is a direct step up from the EMX500



How do you like the MK2 compared to the Graphene?



HungryPanda said:


> Curse you head-fi, work dilemma



That is one large blurry photo lol! I can help you with your dilemma though... send me your Seahf 150's so that you don't have to factor them in (it's not much, but the least that I can do)


----------



## HungryPanda

Goddam phone in bad light


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> I sure you don't hate them when you get them lol! Btw, it doesn't hurt if one asks Jim nicely for a headfi discount


You think I'd miss an opportunity to get a good deal? Already asked Jim and got a discount


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 1, 2017)

Right I'm done modding my diy pk2 now I will give them to my uncle as a rock fan he will love it. Really happy how they turned out, just lacking the separation and balance of the Cygnus slighty, but wow are they so fun to listen to for rock music, bass hit's pretty hard now but not as deep as cygnus, but who cares, they still sound great.

I find myself reaching for them over cygnus for some tracks when I A/B... that's how much I enjoy it.

Overall I would 100% keep cygnus because it's more versatile and does important stuff like balance and separation better. But at the price difference I'm really happy with the diy pk2 in it's modded form.


----------



## SweetEars

jogawag said:


> I have RY4 S and EMX500, but when I compare them I feel like the following.
> RY4S = EMX500 + Bass with punch - Clear treble - Deep bass



thanks for the info . useful...So RY4S is better in some aspect??


----------



## jogawag

SweetEars said:


> thanks for the info . useful...So RY4S is better in some aspect??


RY4S is better in punchy and fun sounds.
EMX500 has a refreshing brighter sound and deep bass.


----------



## SweetEars

jogawag said:


> RY4S is better in punchy and fun sounds.
> EMX500 has a refreshing brighter sound and deep bass.



so the RY4s lacks sub bass?


----------



## jogawag (Nov 1, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> so the RY4s lacks sub bass?


RY4S has enough sub bass, but it is only a little less than EMX500.
RY4S is generally felt Bassy than EMX500.


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> How do you like the MK2 compared to the Graphene?



they are about on par quality-wise, but rather different sounding. the graphene is smooth and polished while the MK2 is raw and have more grit to the sound. also the MK2 presents spatial effects like reverbs and delays better to my ears. both are enjoyable and great sounding, but the MK2 is more of my taste


----------



## SweetEars

jogawag said:


> *The following is *the improved version* of  the cheapest and sure way to make *JAWS Silicon Cover* for Rose Mojito / Masya.
> I can not feel deterioration of sound quality even using this earpiece.
> 
> 1. Buy at http://m.aliexpress.com/item//32675489785.html.
> ...



well i am using the monks thin foams and donut foams in the EMX 500 . there is  a noticeable difference in the sound in both.

*Orginal EMx500 thick foams* - More enveloping sound but with slighly veiled or balanced in all aspects . Sparkle and sub bass are present . Mids are somewhat soft 

*Monks Thin foams* - more wide sound with less sub bass.  Treble is more rattling and more sparkle present . articulation between highs mids and lows are not pronounced but appear as one "whole sound"

*Monks Donut foams* -  The mids come forward , become  more harsh and more sub bass , treble or sparkle seems more weighty and the articulation between high , mid and lows is more pronounced


----------



## SweetEars

jogawag said:


> RY4S has enough sub bass, but it is only a little less than EMX500.
> RY4S is generally felt Bassy than EMX500.


thanks for the info...how about soundstage , depth and width 

I came across a person review in aliexpress and he says _RY4S is better than EMX 500_

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4...id=528a3535-654a-4f95-8570-d535f51c795d&tpp=1

Absolutely fantastic reproduction of music. The mids are clear and full, the trebel is crisp without being harsh and the bass is punchy without meddling the other frequencies. The presentation and detail retrieval is of a much higher quality than the price, these go against my higher priced buds easily. The current crowd favorites - diy Emx500 and vido sound muddy and recessed in comparison. These are a gem irrespective of the price point and I hope the maker will introduce higher ohm buds eventually, they seem to know how music should sound - not v shaped, u shaped - just balanced and dynamic. The build quality is fantastic. Highly recommended! The shipping time was really quick, excellent communication and packed well. Look forward to more purchases.


----------



## jogawag

SweetEars said:


> thanks for the info...how about soundstage , depth and width
> 
> I came across a person review in aliexpress and he says _RY4S is better than EMX 500_
> 
> ...


My black and blue RY4S I bought last year are products of rubber cable below.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32762429040.html
So, it probably sounds even better in the version of the new braided cable that you taught me.


----------



## SweetEars

jogawag said:


> My black and blue RY4S I bought last year are products of rubber cable below.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32762429040.html
> So, it probably sounds even better in the version of the new braided cable that you taught me.



so th elink i showed. which colour should i buy? the last 2 seems to be more exp...


----------



## jogawag

SweetEars said:


> so th elink i showed. which colour should i buy? the last 2 seems to be more exp...


Since the cables of the last two products are well-established ones that sell as a single item, it would be better to choose them.


----------



## SweetEars

jogawag said:


> Since the cables of the last two products are well-established ones that sell as a single item, it would be better to choose them.


sorry dununderstand, care to elaborate?


----------



## jogawag (Nov 2, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> sorry dununderstand, care to elaborate?


You should buy one of the last 2. Because that brown cable has a reputation.
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product//1850191_32820438211.html


----------



## SweetEars

yes the emx 500  i have now has the brown cable. Is it the same also?
 Btw i am not sure how or why this type of cable supposed to sound better.
Thats why asked.


----------



## SweetEars

i mainly listen to the music of AR Rahman. Can u paly this on both EMX500 and R4YS and tell me how they sound like, the differences ect? ?


----------



## jogawag (Nov 2, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> yes the emx 500  i have now has the brown cable. Is it the same also?
> Btw i am not sure how or why this type of cable supposed to sound better.
> Thats why asked.



I think the brown cables are the same.
As shown below, the cable was sold separately and I thought it had a reputation.
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product//1727211_32802441039.html



SweetEars said:


> i mainly listen to the music of AR Rahman. Can u paly this on both EMX500 and R4YS and tell me how they sound like, the differences ect? ?



I heard the music.
The treble of EMX500 sounds emphasized, it hurts a little ear.
In R4YS, punchy mid-bass sounds are mainly heard, the treble of R4YS does not hurt to the ear.
However, I do not know what will happen if you change the R4YS new cable.


----------



## SweetEars

jogawag said:


> I think the brown cables are the same.
> As shown below, the cable was sold separately and I thought it had a reputation.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product//1727211_32802441039.html
> 
> ...


thanks . i have rough idea now. But what i can say EMX 500 with Rahman's music is matching. AR Rahman is a film musician in india. i not sure how to describe his music but its oritented around precise sound engineering. The  youtube is not clear quality but likely the flac of his music can give a better idea.


----------



## noknok23

Anyone heard the V-friends from Thailand?

Also for long term owner of K300 samsara, is it still as good as in the early days?

Thanks


----------



## SweetEars

jogawag said:


> I think the brown cables are the same.
> As shown below, the cable was sold separately and I thought it had a reputation.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product//1727211_32802441039.html
> 
> ...



yes i ordered the one u said i should buy. another 18 days wait then i will post some impressions


----------



## SweetEars

jogawag said:


> I heard the music.
> The treble of EMX500 sounds emphasized, it hurts a little ear.
> In R4YS, punchy mid-bass sounds are mainly heard, the treble of R4YS does not hurt to the ear.
> However, I do not know what will happen if you change the R4YS new cable.



what about depth width , transparency and sub bass?


----------



## damex

there is many *TY Hi-Z* earbuds. are they any good? i see that there is 'new' *TY Hi-Z F300M (300ohm)*


----------



## seanc6441

damex said:


> there is many *TY Hi-Z* earbuds. are they any good? i see that there is 'new' *TY Hi-Z F300M (300ohm)*


I tried the ty32s (V shaped signature version of ty32). Prefered the monk plus to be honest. Some people like the higher tier versions though 150-600. Maybe the new one will be nice.


----------



## chaiyuta

Today my Meizu EP-21HD "new logo" version arrived. Let's see how is different aesthetics from the first one. 




 

1. The front of case at the left-bottom corner.



 

2. The back of case is changed to 'meizu' print screen.



 

3. The back of earbuds shell is printed with slimmer 'm'.



 

4. The last one is http://care.meizu.com/authenticity.html . I already checked serial no. and yes, this one is absolutely genuine. 

P.S. Both versions are same sound. By the way, I think the new one is less bright and softer than the first one...but I might wrong with bias.. or about burn-in hours..


----------



## Paradoxus (Nov 2, 2017)

After lurking on the forum for years, and being poisoned by many products, I've finally decided to make my first post, lol.

First came across this earbud thread about 6 weeks back and bought a load of cheap earbuds:
- TY Hi-Z 32
- TY Hi-Z 150 (non-bass)
- Monk+
- EMX500

I have the Vido, Svara L and RY4S on the way.

I'm now looking for a TOTL earbud with good bass. Am torn between the K's 500, Shozy Stardust BK, TY Hi-Z 650, Seahf 650. I've probably read 70% of this thread and can't find any good comparisons. Am hoping someone can help me.

Some background, I'm abit of a basshead, and have used the UE11s for almost a decade. Recently got a HE-400I and the Schiit stack. For my home theatre system, the single-most expensive product is my subwoofer (at about 1.3k USD).

Of all the earbuds, the EMX500 has been my favourite so far, and I use it with 1 hiegi full foam + 1 VE foam. The monk+ is worse with almost non-existent bass. Apart from the quantity of bass, I realise the bass slam and low the bass extends are important as well. Treble isn't important to me at all. With this in mind, I'm wondering which of the TOTL earbuds would be the most suited assuming I do not EQ at all? Am hoping to snag something on the 11.11 sale.


----------



## Fahim Foysal

Paradoxus said:


> After lurking on the forum for years, and being poisoned by many products, I've finally decided to make my first post, lol.
> 
> First came across this earbud thread about 6 weeks back and bought a load of cheap earbuds:
> - TY Hi-Z 32
> ...


Can you please compare the emx500 and the svara L. I am torn between these two. 
I like a impactful and thumping bass with good treble and clarity. I dont mind a slightly recessed midrange as long as the quality is good.


----------



## mochill

Fahim Foysal said:


> Can you please compare the emx500 and the svara L. I am torn between these two.
> I like a impactful and thumping bass with good treble and clarity. I dont mind a slightly recessed midrange as long as the quality is good.


Why not get the 1more e1008


----------



## chaiyuta

@Paradoxus : Here is ctaxxxx Earbuds List. If you concern on bass slam, these three might be your short-listed.
1) Rose Mojito + try well-known brand upgraded cables to suit your preference. (If you are not anti-cable or cable hater, Mojito doesn't have cold tonality once the 'right' upgraded cable is paired.)
2) Cyherus Campfred 2
3) ABNormal Sound Diomnes Lv.2 (For this one, you have to send the original Monk (not monk+) to ABNormal for modding.


----------



## Fahim Foysal

mochill said:


> Why not get the 1more e1008


I prefer not to buy anything over $50 without detachable cable.


----------



## springbay

noknok23 said:


> Anyone heard the V-friends from Thailand?
> Also for long term owner of K300 samsara, is it still as good as in the early days?
> Thanks



I still love the Samsaras, but I find myself using the K600s more these days. Mainly because I'm in a post bop/cool/vocal jazz listening period and the somewhat more neutral tuning on the K600s pairs very well with these genres. 



damex said:


> there is many *TY Hi-Z* earbuds. are they any good? i see that there is 'new' *TY Hi-Z F300M (300ohm)*



I love the tuning of the Seahf buds and prefer the Seahf tuning over the TY Hi-Z tuning on all the interchangeable models I have. I'm done with buying more TY Hi-Z buds, but I will continue to collect Seahf.
I guess people prefer one of the tunings over the other so if someone who like TY Hi-Z recommend them, you need to know their take on the Seahf tuning. 



mochill said:


> Why not get the 1more e1008





Fahim Foysal said:


> I prefer not to buy anything over $50 without detachable cable.



Funny that these buds turn up in the thread right now. The 1MORE DESIGN Official Store is offering them at what seems like a decent price on Singles day.
www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32777460024.html?
Please note that the link don't show the 11:11 price, you have to back out to the stores main page to see the Singles day price. 

I remember the ones buying them when they were introduced were kind of disappointed that they were not TOTL buds give the high introduction price.
Could any of you who bought the give some feed back if they are worth getting at the 11:11 price point?

Also. I've put a couple of Edifier H180 and P180 in my cart, because they will be featured during 11:11 in the Edifier official store, but mainly so I can have some buds to experiment with.
http://edifierglobal.aliexpress.com/store/3169011?

So does it matter if I get the H- or P-series? Which one is it that is used for Red De'mun and Edimun?


----------



## HUGO SILVA

friends, do you know where to buy Shark ear hook for earbuds like Vido, Ty hi-z hp32 and VE MONK? I'm looking for but can not find. Is there anyone selling on aliexpress or ebay?


----------



## noknok23

springbay said:


> I still love the Samsaras, but I find myself using the K600s more these days. Mainly because I'm in a post bop/cool/vocal jazz listening period and the somewhat more neutral tuning on the K600s pairs very well with these genres.
> 
> 
> 
> I love the tuning of the Seahf buds and prefer the Seahf tuning over the TY Hi-Z tuning on all the interchangeable models I have. I'm done with buying more TY Hi-Z buds, but I will continue to collect Seahf.


Yay another Seahf lover  So are you saying samsara are more "fun" next to K's 600? do you have any 600ohm+ earbuds you can compare it to?


----------



## HungryPanda

I also love the Seahf earbuds. Such great tuning


----------



## springbay (Nov 2, 2017)

noknok23 said:


> Yay another Seahf lover  So are you saying samsara are more "fun" next to K's 600? do you have any 600ohm+ earbuds you can compare it to?



Let's say the Samsaras are more engaging than the K600s. So if you want to take on a more active/analytical listening approach to the music, the K600 are better suited.
I have all my gear listed in my profile page. 
TY Hi-Z HP650 are all too dull in the tuning for my liking. Too much focus on the lower end, but still not managing to be brilliant in the low end.
Seahf AWK-F650S are not bad at all. Solid all the way around. One step above the K300 Pro/Seahf Smart 1.0 and around or about the K500, but still a step/few steps behind the K300 Samsara and K600.
But it's impossible for me to do an exact rank of the buds. It has so much to do with what source I'm listening to and the kind of music I'm playing.


----------



## j4100

Yet another seahf fan. I have the AWK-F150C and it has a great sound, plenty of bass. I aim to keep my Shozy BK (nearly burned in, well 50 hours anyway) in good condition, so got the 150 so I can listen to music in bed, without the worry of damaging the more expensive ones! Waking up several hours after falling asleep to some doom metal or crazy psych stuff is a shocker. 

I'd probably agree with a couple of impressions / reviews that the top end is slightly rolled off, but otherwise love them for all kinds of psychedelic rock, some doom and stoner, ambient, drone, experimental stuff, etc.


----------



## seanc6441

chaiyuta said:


> @Paradoxus : Here is ctaxxxx Earbuds List. If you concern on bass slam, these three might be your short-listed.
> 1) Rose Mojito + try well-known brand upgraded cables to suit your preference. (If you are not anti-cable or cable hater, Mojito doesn't have cold tonality once the 'right' upgraded cable is paired.)
> 2) Cyherus Campfred 2
> 3) ABNormal Sound Diomnes Lv.2 (For this one, you have to send the original Monk (not monk+) to ABNormal for modding.




Does that also apply for the Masya? I don't know whether I believe in cables or not yet... but I'm willing to try something out to give Masya more weight/body to the vocals, a warmer fuller sound.


----------



## chaiyuta (Nov 2, 2017)

@seanc6441 : Likes I said previously to you. Search cable thread inside Head-fi. Look for any cable company sponsers for Head-fi website. Try by yourself. or go to your nearby local audio store.


----------



## noknok23

springbay said:


> Let's say the Samsaras are more engaging than the K600s. So if you want to take on a more active/analytical listening approach to the music, the K600 are better suited.
> I have all my gear listed in my profile page.
> TY Hi-Z HP650 are all too dull in the tuning for my liking. Too much focus on the lower end, but still not managing to be brilliant in the low end.
> Seahf AWK-F650S are not bad at all. Solid all the way around. One step above the K300 Pro/Seahf Smart 1.0 and around or about the K500, but still a step/few steps behind the K300 Samsara and K600.
> But it's impossible for me to do an exact rank of the buds. It has so much to do with what source I'm listening to and the kind of music I'm playing.


Thanks, it's very helpful, I love the Seahf 650, I will consider the k's as an upgrade then


----------



## cqtek

seanc6441 said:


> I modded my DIY Pk2 today when I had some free time. I'll show pics tomorrow but it involved drilling a bass port on the bottom and another on the vent at the back.
> 
> Now there's more emphasis in the bass, sub bass can be heard now and mid bass is slightly more boomy. To keep the bass clean you need to use monk thin foams, heigi will make it sound overpowering. Also there is more air about the instruments and vocals which makes the sound as a whole slightly less congested than before. It seems drilling either a port on the back or bottom alone actually decresed the sound quality, but drilling both has balanced out the sound with losing too much energy and precision of each note (still sounds tight in the mids/high's, but more open in the lows).
> 
> Overall the change brings it a step closer to Cygnus, but still the issue of instruments overpowering vocals remains. That seems to be a driver tuning flaw. Although it's not quite as pronounced as before either.



I'm waiting for your pictures and how to make it!
I hope they are not needed very complex tools.


----------



## Danneq

Paradoxus said:


> After lurking on the forum for years, and being poisoned by many products, I've finally decided to make my first post, lol.
> 
> First came across this earbud thread about 6 weeks back and bought a load of cheap earbuds:
> - TY Hi-Z 32
> ...




My vote goes to Cypherus CampFred2. Best sub bass I've heard in a pair of earbuds. However, Cypherus is a one man company and doesn't sell on Ali express. You'd have to get in touch with Herry aka Cypherus on Facebook or through the new Cypherus audio homepage.


----------



## wskl

damex said:


> there is many *TY Hi-Z* earbuds. are they any good? i see that there is 'new' *TY Hi-Z F300M (300ohm)*



You should read this thread
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/introduction-to-ty-hi-z-earbud-family-mega-review.831374/

Also, the F300M review
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ty-hi-z-f300m-earbud.22705/reviews


----------



## seanc6441

chaiyuta said:


> @seanc6441 : Likes I said previously to you. Search cable thread inside Head-fi. Look out any cable company sponsers for Head-fi website. Try by yourself. or go to your nearby local audio store.


I don't live near an audio store unfortunately and my question is about upgrade cables for masya affect specifically the warmth and add body to vocals, I will search and ask in the cables thread thanks.


----------



## eaglesgift

I got the Graphenes a couple of days and I'm loving them. I don't find them bass light at all either. Don't know about sub bass because it's not a big feature of most of the music that I listen to but plenty of bass as in bass guitar frequencies. They did sound a little bass light when I first tried them but after twisting them to face forward a little rather than straight down, they sound great in all frequencies. I don't own any TOTL IEMs, headphones or earbuds but I'd say the Graphenes are the equal of the most expensive IEMs I do own, which are around $100. Really nice layers/separation, soundstage and detail retrieval to my ears. If it's true they improve with burn in then I'm looking forward to that as they've only had a bout 5 hours so far.


----------



## SweetEars

Paradoxus said:


> After lurking on the forum for years, and being poisoned by many products, I've finally decided to make my first post, lol.
> 
> First came across this earbud thread about 6 weeks back and bought a load of cheap earbuds:
> - TY Hi-Z 32
> ...



I have the following 
- Monk+
- EMX500

On the way Rymall RY4S...will review it once i get it 

i agree EMX500 is  the best one in its price category. However the monks are good in their "attack" in some  high quaity sound equiment. If u have a old late 2000s laptop realtek sound card , the monks + will especially shine  with the Realtek sound enhacements turned on.


----------



## seanc6441

cqtek said:


> I'm waiting for your pictures and how to make it!
> I hope they are not needed very complex tools.


I'll get around to that tomorrow 

Not complex assuming you have a power drill and some small drill bits to make the ports/vents. I'm talking 1-2mm drill bits. I'll give a detailed post tomorrow.


----------



## waynes world (Nov 2, 2017)

eaglesgift said:


> I got the Graphenes a couple of days and I'm loving them. I don't find them bass light at all either. Don't know about sub bass because it's not a big feature of most of the music that I listen to but plenty of bass as in bass guitar frequencies. *They did sound a little bass light when I first tried them but after twisting them to face forward a little rather than straight down, they sound great in all frequencies. *I don't own any TOTL IEMs, headphones or earbuds but I'd say the Graphenes are the equal of the most expensive IEMs I do own, which are around $100. Really nice layers/separation, soundstage and detail retrieval to my ears. If it's true they improve with burn in then I'm looking forward to that as they've only had a bout 5 hours so far.



Glad you hear them like I do! And that's a really good point about re-positioning them. I do the same thing with them and thought it was just the shape of my ears, so I never bothered mentioning it. But come to think of it, it is mainly only the graphenes that I re-position like that to really bring them alive, so maybe it's also a "graphenes" thing.


----------



## Paradoxus

Fahim Foysal said:


> Can you please compare the emx500 and the svara L. I am torn between these two.
> I like a impactful and thumping bass with good treble and clarity. I dont mind a slightly recessed midrange as long as the quality is good.



Sorry I haven't received the Svara L yet, will do a comparison once they arrive. 



Danneq said:


> My vote goes to Cypherus CampFred2. Best sub bass I've heard in a pair of earbuds. However, Cypherus is a one man company and doesn't sell on Ali express. You'd have to get in touch with Herry aka Cypherus on Facebook or through the new Cypherus audio homepage.



Thanks, just dropped him a message. The CampFred2's retail for US$199 + US$25 for shipping. 



SweetEars said:


> I have the following
> - Monk+
> - EMX500
> 
> ...



While i don't have the Realtek sound card, I'll give it a go with the Schiit stack and EQ. But i generally dislike the Monks+ out of all the other budget earbuds i've gotten. 



chaiyuta said:


> @Paradoxus : Here is ctaxxxx Earbuds List. If you concern on bass slam, these three might be your short-listed.
> 1) Rose Mojito + try well-known brand upgraded cables to suit your preference. (If you are not anti-cable or cable hater, Mojito doesn't have cold tonality once the 'right' upgraded cable is paired.)
> 2) Cyherus Campfred 2
> 3) ABNormal Sound Diomnes Lv.2 (For this one, you have to send the original Monk (not monk+) to ABNormal for modding.



Thanks for the ctaxxxx list, extremely useful. Am swayed towards the Campfred2s now, they do seems like the popular vote. 

I've read quite a few threads on the Rose Mojito. While i'm not adverse to changing the cables, they don't seem to excel in bass. Rather give it a miss and go for something else which has better bass out of the box. 

Also the ABNormal Diomnes is out of production, oh well.


----------



## waynes world

EDCV said:


> Sennheiser MX985, Blox TM7, Venture Electronic Zen 1.0, Rose Technology Mojito.
> 
> Do you like wireless bluetooth headset?



I love the Zen 1.0. And I am very interested in wireless bluetooth earbuds. How can you help me?


----------



## chaiyuta

@Paradoxus : I am very pleased to hear that one out of three will become your next buy. hehe. In case of Rose Mojito, It will be better if you already own any upgrade cables before and let's them try with Mojito. It is also about match&synergy thing that you should audition by yourself rather than blind buying by reading other reviews because they don't use exactly same system and earphones likes you. For Diomines Lv.2, it quite difficult to get it since you have to find an original monk in second-hand sales first.


----------



## Danneq

I was lucky to buy a pair of Diomnes Lv2 when ABnormal still could get original Monk earbuds. Diomnes Lv2 is really great. When it comes to soundstage and highs I find it to be better than CampFred 1 or 2. But for bass I would pick any of the CampFreds.


----------



## ctaxxxx (Nov 3, 2017)

What are everyone's impressions of the treble region for their Shozy BK's? I just bought a balanced version from another Head-Fi user, but they are a bit smoother than I remember them being... Not sure if I just got used to the Diomnes' treble after I sold my old ones, or the Shozy's I first owned had something wrong with them. I'll need to rewrite my impressions if that's the case... But it does match up with what some have said with the lack of treble extension...

*Edit: *It's probably just me... I think I just have a better idea of how to describe the upper region after listening to some other headphones when I last sold these.


----------



## SweetEars

does anyone know if any earbds or even IEM that has the sub, mid and treble for the EMX500 but more fluidity and and  holographic transparency?


----------



## acap13

SweetEars said:


> does anyone know if any earbds or even IEM that has the sub, mid and treble for the EMX500 but more fluidity and and  holographic transparency?



For below $30, Graphene is the best for what you wanted. EMX500 is not as transparent, fluidity and holographic. I find subbass dig deeper than EMX500 eventhough not as bumped up on the midbass. Hope you can try to buy and report your findings here soon.


----------



## HungryPanda

Pioneer CH9T or CH5T is an iem worth looking into if you want bass like the EMX500


----------



## golov17

SweetEars said:


> does anyone know if any earbds or even IEM that has the sub, mid and treble for the EMX500 but more fluidity and and  holographic transparency?


 Willsound32 v.2, Zen1.0


----------



## SweetEars

golov17 said:


> Willsound32 v.2, Zen1.0



where do u buy the willsound32


----------



## golov17 (Nov 3, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> where do u buy the willsound32


https://www.facebook.com/WillSound-355453261556612/
https://www.facebook.com/willy.j.lukito
PayPal


----------



## j4100

What's in the Willsound range?


----------



## j4100

While I'm asking questions, how many earbuds that you guys really like are only available via Fb, etc. Thinking of Willsound, Blur, etc. I've been reading the last 150 or so pages on here looking for inspiration and recommendations, especja5for those not available through Aliexpress and Amazon.

Thanks


----------



## waynes world

waynes world said:


> Excellent, thanks. You and hungrypanda and others seem to really like them, so it will probably have to be done *has been done!*



Fixed that for me! Couldn't wait for 11/11. Seahf 150C's ordered from NiceHCK


----------



## HungryPanda

waynes world said:


> Fixed that for me! Couldn't wait for 11/11. Seahf 150C's ordered from NiceHCK



You will like them very much, I had a nice extended session with them last night plugged in to my Cowon P1. They are most excellent


----------



## Paradoxus

By any chance, would anyone know if the Campfred 2 or the Shozy Stardust / BK benefits from an amp/dac? Especially being 32 ohms.

Also, just before the plug on the Campfred 2s, anyone have comments on its build? Particularly, the cable. There are hardly good pictures of it, and from what i see on the CAX website, it doesn't look impressive -- braids don't seem tight. Also read that its a rather stiff cable? Wondering if this would be an issue if i were to use it on the move. I absolutely hate the EMX500 cable, in fact, it got caught more than once on someone's bag or clothing as they were about to exit the train. In comparison, the TY Hi-Z 150 ohm version's cable is quite flexible. 

For those waiting for 11.11 sales, the discounts are out.
K's 500 is US$80
Shozy Stardust / BK is US$145
TY Hi-Z HP650 is US$105


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> You will like them very much, I had a nice extended session with them last night plugged in to my Cowon P1. They are most excellent



Awesome. I'm looking forward to bringing out my Fiio E12 amp to play with them (the Graphenes love this amp).

Fwiw, the blue line below shows the bass boost of Fiio E12 "version 1" which was only in production for a few months. I bought one right away when they said that the "official version" would change the bass boost signature to what's shown in the red line. I'm not sure why they did that, because I really love how the version 1 tends to mainly increase only the lowest frequencies of the bass, and it will be a sad day when my version 1 dies (same with my VE Zen 1.0 for that matter!).


----------



## chaiyuta (Nov 3, 2017)

Paradoxus said:


> By any chance, would anyone know if the Campfred 2 or the Shozy Stardust / BK benefits from an amp/dac? Especially being 32 ohms.
> 
> Also, just before the plug on the Campfred 2s, anyone have comments on its build? Particularly, the cable. There are hardly good pictures of it, and from what i see on the CAX website, it doesn't look impressive -- braids don't seem tight. Also read that its a rather stiff cable? Wondering if this would be an issue if i were to use it on the move. I absolutely hate the EMX500 cable, in fact, it got caught more than once on someone's bag or clothing as they were about to exit the train. In comparison, the TY Hi-Z 150 ohm version's cable is quite flexible.
> 
> ...


Even though it is just 32 Ohm, DAC/AMP should effect more or less. In ctaxxxx earbud list, there are DX200 AMP1 and AMP3 module comparison as well, so.. I have no idea with their braid cable because I don't own any of them. Speaking about cable looks, the DIY graphene cable is the most one that I dislike. so thin, looks cheap, and green-able copper lol. If you care too much on cable ergonomics.. I guess.. earbuds with detachable cable feature might be your choice since you can find the 'right' one for you in after-market.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Paradoxus said:


> By any chance, would anyone know if the Campfred 2 or the Shozy Stardust / BK benefits from an amp/dac? Especially being 32 ohms.
> 
> Also, just before the plug on the Campfred 2s, anyone have comments on its build? Particularly, the cable. There are hardly good pictures of it, and from what i see on the CAX website, it doesn't look impressive -- braids don't seem tight. Also read that its a rather stiff cable? Wondering if this would be an issue if i were to use it on the move. I absolutely hate the EMX500 cable, in fact, it got caught more than once on someone's bag or clothing as they were about to exit the train. In comparison, the TY Hi-Z 150 ohm version's cable is quite flexible.
> 
> ...



It's only CAX Black that is stiff. The others are perfectly fine. The cable on my CampFred 2 though have started to unwind after the splitter. Not sure how much of an issue that might be.

Also, I would suggest having the cable go through your shirt or something, so it'll stop getting caught.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 3, 2017)

EMX500 cable is just nasty. Has barely any redeeming factors except it's not overly prone to memory.

Coming from that to Cygnus soft cable is like night and day, I don't even care if Cygnus cable turns green, it's much nicer to use.

As for graphene it looks like the same cable as DIY PK2 which is indeed very thin and feels easy to break but so far it's lasting well. Plus it's actually medium soft and not too prone to memory. It's not half bad imo.

Speaking of nice cables I picked up this on Aliexpress for €2.50.




Soft, beautiful clear/silver finish, medium-thin but feels solid. Small straight 3.5mm  metal finish with gold coated jack.

Looks/Feels similar to the Penon BS1 cable which is great. I like it and it costs pennys.

Not quiet as durable outer coating as the BS1 but hey what can you expect for that price.


----------



## chaiyuta (Nov 3, 2017)

It called "microphonics" or "touch noise". I guess it has a trick to reduce those noise.. Did you tie it as knot and leave the end of cable long enough when you re-cable your earbuds? If cable get stress by gravity since soldering point until plug, you might get the most "microphonic" that the cable can generate. By the way, please avoid re-cable on any of your TOTL or high-price earbuds.. it has high possibility that their sound become worse.. Moreover the number of re-solder on driver of earbuds is limited (2-5 times as long as the copper on print-board of driver still be). Anyway, you can try.


----------



## Saoshyant (Nov 3, 2017)

Paradoxus said:


> By any chance, would anyone know if the Campfred 2 or the Shozy Stardust / BK benefits from an amp/dac? Especially being 32 ohms.
> 
> Also, just before the plug on the Campfred 2s, anyone have comments on its build? Particularly, the cable. There are hardly good pictures of it, and from what i see on the CAX website, it doesn't look impressive -- braids don't seem tight. Also read that its a rather stiff cable? Wondering if this would be an issue if i were to use it on the move. I absolutely hate the EMX500 cable, in fact, it got caught more than once on someone's bag or clothing as they were about to exit the train. In comparison, the TY Hi-Z 150 ohm version's cable is quite flexible.
> 
> ...







Also, getting a taste of pairing Blue Darth with Fiio Q1 mk ii listening to Black Star.  Finally a use for my old iPod Touch as OTG with LG G6 seems to have some issues for me.


----------



## voxdub

seanc6441 said:


> EMX500 cable is just nasty. Has barely any redeeming factors except it's not overly prone to memory.
> 
> Coming from that to Cygnus soft cable is like night and day, I don't even care if Cygnus cable turns green, it's much nicer to use.
> 
> ...



The EMX500 cable on the last pair I had was horrific, the microphonics meant it was unlistenable, recabled it last night and is now fantastic.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 3, 2017)

For those of you wondering about my mod to the DIY PK2 to help increase the bass emphasis. I'll get around to it tomorrow! I've actually since altered the mod slighty because I was unhappy with the tone shift to a deeper sounding frequency for vocals which meant some clarity was lost. I've since found a way to keep the bass emphasis, improve mid bass thump and also keep the vocals at generally the same tone as before, which was the desired result in the first place.

For now I'm blocking the vents with blue tack but once I get the sound just right  I'll use some kind of fast setting *glue or epoxy*. Opening vents will require a *power drill/electric screwdriver* and a 1.5 mm drill bit. Which is probably the second/third smallest in a drill set (usually). Finally you'll need (and this is the hard to source part) some kind of *filter paper* (very thin/pourous) to put over the bass vent which both keeps dust/dirt out of the housing and affects the sound but allowing the air to escape but keep the sound inside the shell for added punchiness/tightness when opening a bass port which usually will causing everything to sound more muddy. I used a filter from another earbud shell for that exact purpose, but you can DIY one I'm sure with some filter paper and glue to hold it to the shell.


----------



## waynes world (Nov 3, 2017)

DBaldock9 said:


> I have the 115Ω Svara L, and it definitely has the most Bass of any of my MMCX Earbuds:
> (Listed in order of Bass impact)
> 1.) Svara L - 115Ω, Metal housing
> 2.) **** PT15 v2 - 32Ω, Metal housing
> ...



I'd like to get a "bluetooth earbud" setup as a gift to me on 11/11. Now I just have to decide between the Svara L for $55 or the **** PT15 for a whopping $8. Or maybe something else. Although I like bass, based on your descriptions I think that the **** PT15 might be the best bet. Also it's dirt cheap lol.

I'll probably also get the NiceHCK HB1 bluetooth cable for $33 that @chinmie mentioned.
edit: that cable looks pretty good actually.

Let me know if anyone objects or has any better ideas!

Btw the MMCX jacks for your regular MX500 shells is a cool idea. Let me know how that goes. I might have to learn the skittles to do that myself, and then I could have a lunch of BT earbuds!


----------



## Saoshyant

Hmm, 8 for new PT15 means it's time to get the new version.  Also tempted to try new Svara L to see how it's changed.


----------



## siderak

Paradoxus said:


> By any chance, would anyone know if the Campfred 2 or the Shozy Stardust / BK benefits from an amp/dac? Especially being 32 ohms.
> 
> Also, just before the plug on the Campfred 2s, anyone have comments on its build? Particularly, the cable. There are hardly good pictures of it, and from what i see on the CAX website, it doesn't look impressive -- braids don't seem tight. Also read that its a rather stiff cable? Wondering if this would be an issue if i were to use it on the move. I absolutely hate the EMX500 cable, in fact, it got caught more than once on someone's bag or clothing as they were about to exit the train. In comparison, the TY Hi-Z 150 ohm version's cable is quite flexible.
> 
> ...



The Campfred 2 is very easy to drive. 
The cable is the softest I have. Not remotely stiff at all.


----------



## gobin

Any one here interested in the Blue Demun? I want to offload it . Would also like a 1:1 trade with an IEM, preferably with inline mic. I thought some collectors here would want it. They look and sound beautiful but my (maybe) TOTL over-ear gets all the head time. Thanks for reading and sorry if this distract the topic


----------



## euge

HungryPanda said:


> You will like them very much, I had a nice extended session with them last night plugged in to my Cowon P1. They are most excellent



loving the seahf 150c, been using it more than the shozy bk lately, any other you would recommend to pick up during the aliexpress sales?
the seahf 400ohm looks nice but I only have a fiio q1 might not have enough power for it.


----------



## HungryPanda

I also really like K's 300 and K's 600


----------



## Fahim Foysal

Saoshyant said:


> Hmm, 8 for new PT15 means it's time to get the new version.  Also tempted to try new Svara L to see how it's changed.


What do you mean by "the new svara L"? Do they have a new version or something? As far as I know they have been out for quite some time.


----------



## j4100

Question for **** PT15 owners. Did you improve sound quality by replacing the cable with one available on Ali? I'm interested in the low cost of this one coupled with the ability to replace the cable if it gets damaged.

Thanks.


----------



## damex

is sony e9lp any good? atleast compared to 1st gen monks 
it seems to be the only available sony earbud right now (is there any other?)


----------



## SweetEars

j4100 said:


> What's in the Willsound range?



apparently they are very good....


----------



## SweetEars

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...lgo_pvid=fbb3cdd2-7927-43c9-b82e-ed1ea72b8b4e

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/AK-...id=21de0f9e-d530-4db5-b150-b27fb46964d3&tpp=1


anyone tried this?


----------



## j4100

SweetEars said:


> apparently they are very good....


I've seen mention of the mk1 and mk2 and comparison with the Graphene. Also 300 ohm version, but nothing on that. Anything further would be interesting.


----------



## RodRevenge

Does someone have a link or care to explain to me this whole impedance thing, whats the point of having for example the same headphone the same headphone one in 64 and one in 150, whats the advantage and how to know if i will be able to drive the higher impedance version.


----------



## HungryPanda (Nov 4, 2017)

If you have a capable amp it can drive various earbuds with different ohms. The higher you go the more impressive most buds become as they have a fuller range. High ohm earbuds like 600 ohm need an amp and would not be driven properly from a phone or less powerful dap


----------



## acap13 (Nov 4, 2017)

High impedance usually needs more voltage swing to drive the load/transducer. Rule of thumb suggested output impedance of your amplifier must be around 1/8 of your load impedance. Unnecessary  to get the number accurate. As long as it get closer the better. Usually, the high impedance transducer will associate with scalability, better black background, larger overall sound due to amplification factor. Its more fun to play with if you have OTL tube amp or balanced/differential output amplifier.

Low impedance however should be less hustle to work with. Any players, phones or any solid state amplifier should be no problem. However, it will be more sensitive to noise floor if your source is not up to snuff. Even worse, if your transducer is revealing in nature. But overall, more often it could get to work than high impedance. Scalability is lesser compared to high impedance. In certain cases, you need to watch out for your source rather than amplification if you are not satisfy with what you hear.


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> this my earbud bluetooth setup using the Svara L:
> 
> 
> the thing to consider when using bluetooth, even though you might lose some quality to the sound, you gain a lot in comfort and freedom of mobility. for a bonus it also add mic for calls to the earbuds.
> i personally haven't done critical a/b testing between using Bluetooth or wired, but to me the differences (if there's any) are minor enough that i don't really notice them or bothering me



Hi chinmie. I now see that the HB1 wireless cable is intended to be used "over ears" and that the cable near the connectors is shaped. Can the cable instead be worn "down"? That would seem to be best for earbuds I think.


----------



## j4100

Was reading the iFi Audio Nano iDSD Black Label thread. This might be the very thing to partner my dap and power some high impedance buds I'm looking at.

However, it appears to have a 3.5mm balanced output as well as se. Anyone on here using 3.5mm balanced buds?

Sorely tempted to order one anyway.


----------



## chaiyuta

@j4100 : I suggest you take an audition & comparison on both iFi Audio .. and the new FiiO Q5ii, or FiiO Q1ii since FiiO has 2.5mm balanced headphone output which is more popular than 3.5mm BL.


----------



## j4100

chaiyuta said:


> @j4100 : I suggest you take an audition & comparison on both iFi Audio .. and the new FiiO Q5ii, or FiiO Q1ii since FiiO has 2.5mm balanced headphone output which is more popular than 3.5mm BL.



I'll do that as I haven't looked at the FiiO units yet. The iFi interested me as the blurb said it can drive up to 600 ohms.


----------



## gazzington

My emx500s arrived today. Wow. These are incredible for the price paid. Hip hop sounds awesome on them


----------



## gazzington

Even some doom metal sounds awesome


----------



## j4100

gazzington said:


> Even some doom metal sounds awesome



Which ones did you get.  I'm  going to pick up a pair soon. Don't mind some doom. Saw Windhand last month.


----------



## gazzington

They were diy ones with a white cable. Sound really good. Might get another as back up in case these break


----------



## SweetEars

Ak diy MX760 graphene  sale is starting  soon .....in 7 days from now


----------



## SweetEars

I like to point out that the emx500 they have a lot of  this "*background sound/ surround effect* ".. which makes them not so forward like other Punchy type  earbuds like the monk. In yr face vs out of yr head

THis makes them idela for watching movies. Anyone knows any other earbiuds which have same background sound but a bit* layered highs mids and lows i*n the clear?  Eg. as in when a sudden comes on like a basy sound or  metallic sound u can hear them with a pronounced effect and with *transparency detail and weight.  

The last time i remmeber this was with the Melectronics M9 , IEM. *


----------



## waynes world

SweetEars said:


> Ak diy MX760 graphene  sale is starting  soon .....in 7 days from now



Excellent! I trust you'll be jumping on the graphene hype bullettrain?


----------



## SweetEars

waynes world said:


> Excellent! I trust you'll be jumping on the graphene hype bullettrain?



Maybe... but i guess i wont like the spound as certain reviews say they are a bit forward sounding ( eg. monks?) ..

I am this preferences which is similar tot he emx 500. Articulated  3 layer sound ( highs, mids lows) , lot of background surround, sub bass and sparkle type of person


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 4, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> I like to point out that the emx500 they have a lot of  this "*background sound/ surround effect* ".. which makes them not so forward like other Punchy type  earbuds like the monk. In yr face vs out of yr head
> 
> THis makes them idela for watching movies. Anyone knows any other earbiuds which have same background sound but a bit* layered highs mids and lows i*n the clear?  Eg. as in when a sudden comes on like a basy sound or  metallic sound u can hear them with a pronounced effect and with *transparency detail and weight.
> 
> The last time i remmeber this was with the Melectronics M9 , IEM. *



Rose Masya, except the vocals lack weight and instead sound clear and bright.

Everything else has nice authority though whilst also retaining transparency and airy quality you want from the emx500.

Then again I'm sure there's cheaper options with the same effect.

To me rose masya is lacking in vocal body/weight to an extent that's almost unforgivable from a TOTL(ish) earbud. This couldbe an unfortunate pairing with my iphone 6s but I've had 10 earbuds now and none of them are as lacking in vocal body as the Masya.

It's crystal clear with thin foams, but no amount of foam will completely save it and you sacrifice too much clarity trying to thicken up the foams.

Masya is excellent at everything else though. Just my personal tastes require the vocals to be much fuller more akin to the shozy cygnus if using now and probably the stardust ill have soon. If the masya had thick vocals and you could use it with thin monk foams and donut on top it would be the best earbud under 100 for me.

Why rose why!! The masya is almost amazing for me, albeit I prefer the shozy sound signature for musicality so I know i'm gonna love the stardust the most (probably).


----------



## waynes world

@seanc6441, got your graphenes yet? 

I can't wait to get the Seahf 150C's so that I can start hyping them to you as well (although you'll prolly need an amp to make them shine)


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 4, 2017)

waynes world said:


> @seanc6441, got your graphenes yet?
> 
> I can't wait to get the Seahf 150C's so that I can start hyping them to you as well (although you'll prolly need an amp to make them shine)


Nope still waiting. My stardust should arrive this week though. Heard someone say they are similar to the Graphene? You can let us know!

@SweetEars Oh you don't like forward mids? maybe not the Masya then, it's pretty forward in mids and vocals


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Nope still waiting. My stardust should arrive this week though. Heard someone say they are similar to the Graphene? You can let us know!



Sadly, I do not have the stardust's, so that will all be up to you (no pressure lol!)


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> Sadly, I do not have the stardust's, so that will all be up to you (no pressure lol!)


Oops I meant the seahf f150c, but actually someone compared them to stardust too in a review funnily enough


----------



## chaiyuta

Does anyone try AK EMXs-500 yet? In facebook Mr. Le Yoo stated that it is upgraded EMX500 sound.. By the way, If I remember correct, EMX500 is made from another aliexpress reseller.


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Hi chinmie. I now see that the HB1 wireless cable is intended to be used "over ears" and that the cable near the connectors is shaped. Can the cable instead be worn "down"? That would seem to be best for earbuds I think.



i don't think you can wear it down-way, unless you strip the plastic molded tubing


----------



## acap13

waynes world said:


> @seanc6441, got your graphenes yet?
> 
> I can't wait to get the Seahf 150C's so that I can start hyping them to you as well (although you'll prolly need an amp to make them shine)



I'm actually pretty curious with the Seahf 150C. So, I looked it up on Aliexpress just to find out that its sensitivity to be 85db. Thats more notorious and seriously power hungry than even my Mad Dog Pro at around 93db. My Walnut E1 earbud at around 100db is enough to put me off because of it sensitivity. Same goes to Benjie 49 at 100db. Do you ever find some of the most difficult time with them? Quite curious


----------



## euge

acap13 said:


> I'm actually pretty curious with the Seahf 150C. So, I looked it up on Aliexpress just to find out that its sensitivity to be 85db. Thats more notorious and seriously power hungry than even my Mad Dog Pro at around 93db. My Walnut E1 earbud at around 100db is enough to put me off because of it sensitivity. Same goes to Benjie 49 at 100db. Do you ever find some of the most difficult time with them? Quite curious



I use them without amp at work both on phone and pc fine, they obviously sound better amped, especially the bass and soundstage


----------



## acap13

euge said:


> I use them without amp at work both on phone and pc fine, they obviously sound better amped, especially the bass and soundstage



Thanks for the heads up. Thats sounds promising. Thought it would be of needing some more volume than just phones or some portable players. Still this will definately benefit dramatically from amping. On paper, they are a must from my experience though. But, for small driver for earbuds might be different case.


----------



## noknok23 (Nov 5, 2017)

chaiyuta said:


> Does anyone try AK EMXs-500 yet? In facebook Mr. Le Yoo stated that it is upgraded EMX500 sound.. By the way, If I remember correct, EMX500 is made from another aliexpress reseller.


I talked a bit with Le Yoo, she is actually super young girl that admitted to me she barely know about earbuds. She had lied to me for some random informations in the past.  I would take everything she said with a pinch of salt. She is promoting her shop above anything else.

Edit: they look good though and for the price it seems reasonable...


----------



## SweetEars

noknok23 said:


> I talked a bit with Le Yoo, she is actually super young girl that admitted to me she barely know about earbuds. She had lied to me for some random informations in the past.  I would take everything she said with a pinch of salt. She is promoting her shop above anything else.
> 
> Edit: they look good though and for the price it seems reasonable...




i do not think its better than the **** version?


----------



## chaiyuta (Nov 5, 2017)

noknok23 said:


> I talked a bit with Le Yoo, she is actually super young girl that admitted to me she barely know about earbuds. She had lied to me for some random informations in the past.  I would take everything she said with a pinch of salt. She is promoting her shop above anything else.
> 
> Edit: they look good though and for the price it seems reasonable...



Your answer make me surprised.. Just know that the reseller is woman. I ever chit-chat with her one time during I posted the DIY earbuds from my country called "Phra Kan Anonymous earbuds" in Earbuds Anonymous FB Group.. If you guys want to do more detail about it, you could google with the following thai text "พระกาฬนิรนาม".


----------



## golov17

chaiyuta said:


> Your answer make me surprised.. Just know that the reseller is woman. I ever chit-chat with her one time during I posted the DIY earbuds from my country called "Phra Kan Anonymous earbuds" in Earbuds Anonymous FB Group.. If you guys want to do more detail about it, you could google with the following thai text "พระกาฬนิรนาม".


https://forum.munkonggadget.com/detail.php?id=239716


----------



## chaiyuta

@golov17 : Exactly.


----------



## golov17

chaiyuta said:


> @golov17 : Exactly.





Spoiler


----------



## chaiyuta

@golov17 : you always fast. haha


----------



## SweetEars

today at a shop in  i came across this budget earphones called Awei ES-10M. Never tried it but at $12 . its a godo deal..anyone knows how its sound signature is like??


----------



## golov17 (Nov 5, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> today at a shop in  i came across this budget earphones called Awei ES-10M. Never tried it but at $12 . its a godo deal..anyone knows how its sound signature is like??


Softly bassier, cheap on  Aliexpress


----------



## theoutsider (Nov 5, 2017)

Is Creative Aurvana Air worth owning today?

Thanks.


----------



## kfarndog

seanc6441 said:


> Rose Masya, except the vocals lack weight and instead sound clear and bright.
> 
> Everything else has nice authority though whilst also retaining transparency and airy quality you want from the emx500.
> 
> ...




Just from my personal experience, the Masya is a Jekyll and Hyde earbud depending on the source.  It's great when you get it right, but there are equally great earbuds out there that are not nearly as finicky as the Masyas.


----------



## seanc6441

kfarndog said:


> Just from my personal experience, the Masya is a Jekyll and Hyde earbud depending on the source.  It's great when you get it right, but there are equally great earbuds out there that are not nearly as finicky as the Masyas.


Seems like an earbud begging for a full warm source, but maybe it's even more finicky than that.

Any idea of a great source for this thing?


----------



## kfarndog

seanc6441 said:


> Seems like an earbud begging for a full warm source, but maybe it's even more finicky than that.
> 
> Any idea of a great source for this thing?



The Masyas are a pretty low impedance if I recall.  For instance, my Cowon Plenue P1, a great sounding player, doesn't sound the best with the Masyas.  But the Cowon Plenue D makes the Masyas sing.  I am guessing there is some math between the earbuds and output of those players that explains those unexpected results.  Another example - I really like my Masyas with the Colorfly C3.

I wonder if your iphone may be similar to the Cowon P1 and just doesn't play well with the Masyas?


----------



## seanc6441

kfarndog said:


> The Masyas are a pretty low impedance if I recall.  For instance, my Cowon Plenue P1, a great sounding player, doesn't sound the best with the Masyas.  But the Cowon Plenue D makes the Masyas sing.  I am guessing there is some math between the earbuds and output of those players that explains those unexpected results.  Another example - I really like my Masyas with the Colorfly C3.
> 
> I wonder if your iphone may be similar to the Cowon P1 and just doesn't play well with the Masyas?



Possibly. I mean my only gripe is the vocals other than that everything sounds crisp and powerful even through a mobile source. I'll have a look at those players to see what separates them in terms of amping and sound signature to see what i can do for the masya.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Nope still waiting. My stardust should arrive this week though. Heard someone say they are similar to the Graphene? You can let us know!
> 
> @SweetEars Oh you don't like forward mids? maybe not the Masya then, it's pretty forward in mids and vocals


nope, i compared them on a mini meet last saturday.. the stardust is different sounding to the Graphene. both are great though


----------



## SweetEars

has anyone came across this before? it looks interesting 

https://www.amazon.com/ADAX-Frequency-Earphones-Microphone-Headphones/dp/B01MZ7599W


----------



## SweetEars

golov17 said:


> Softly bassier, cheap on  Aliexpress



Not the Es10 , Its ES-10M . . the frequncy range is different 18-25000


----------



## golov17 (Nov 6, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> Not the Es10 , Its ES-10M . . the frequncy range is different 18-25000



http://awei.in/awei-es10-aipo-wired-in-ear-headphones-earphones-headset-(-black-)
"M" have 1,5 m cable..
..but it's not exactly clear


----------



## SweetEars

golov17 said:


> http://awei.in/awei-es10-aipo-wired-in-ear-headphones-earphones-headset-(-black-)
> "M" have 1,5 m cable



u have any review of them in comparison to the Emx500 ?


----------



## golov17

SweetEars said:


> u have any review of them in comparison to the Emx500 ?


emx win


----------



## nick n (Nov 6, 2017)

golov17 :

 Are there any vintage Russian earbuds that you know about? ( Amfiton / Echo / Elektronika etc. )
I have a lot of the old fullsized stuff  and have always wondered about the earbuds = vintage or even currently made ( if there are any )

Thanks.


----------



## golov17

nick n said:


> golov17 :
> 
> Are there any vintage Russian earbuds that you know about? ( Amfiton / Echo / Elektronika etc. )
> I have a lot of the old fullsized stuff  and have always wondered about the earbuds = vintage or even currently made ( if there are any )
> ...


 only Fischer Audio


----------



## HungryPanda

SweetEars said:


> has anyone came across this before? it looks interesting
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/ADAX-Frequency-Earphones-Microphone-Headphones/dp/B01MZ7599W



I have these and they are well worth that price, neutral and really good sounding


----------



## SweetEars

HungryPanda said:


> I have these and they are well worth that price, neutral and really good sounding


any reviews on them? hows gthe extension both ways? sparkle and sub bass?


----------



## HungryPanda

Treble is very nice, not sharp bass is present but not super deep


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 6, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> any reviews on them? hows gthe extension both ways? sparkle and sub bass?



http://www.aproear.co.uk/adax-ht06/  from a fellow headfier.

Check out this thread in the link below for IEMs... this one is more dedicated to buds

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...nd-impressions-sharing-reference-list.805930/


----------



## chaiyuta

@ClieOS : Could you share me impression of HY1000 (方丈)? I also just noticed that there are 2 kind of tuning.


----------



## ClieOS

chaiyuta said:


> @ClieOS : Could you share me impression of HY1000 (方丈)? I also just noticed that there are 2 kind of tuning.



I only know about only one version of HY1000. It is pretty well balanced and tilting toward neutral, bass might be a bit lean if you don't use foam, though still not going to be anywhere near bass heavy even with foam. Mid is clean and well render, not particularly sweet nor dry. Treble is well extended and crisp, not the most analytical sound in earbuds but still above average in detail.


----------



## RodRevenge

With all this 11.11 going on i decided to order some pairs since (lucky me) the day before is my birthday i waa planning to order the pk2 and the nameless but with all this graphene love i dont know which one to get, any advice?


----------



## waynes world

RodRevenge said:


> With all this 11.11 going on i decided to order some pairs since (lucky me) the day before is my birthday i waa planning to order the pk2 and the nameless but with all this graphene love i dont know which one to get, any advice?



Yeah, confusing! You can't go wrong with the NiceHCK graphenes. But according to ClioOS, it seems that the nameless and the graphenes are quite similar:
_
"DIY Graphene and PT15 share a lot of common traits, so yes, I'll say they are much more like sidegrade of each other than upgrade
Compared to PT15 / DIY Graphene, Nameless is tuned a littler smoother overall. But as far as overall sound quality goes, they are more or less at around the same level. Nameless is mainly a more relaxing earbud to listen to while PT15 / DIY Graphene are more aggressive i, their presentation."_


----------



## HungryPanda (Nov 6, 2017)

Just get Seahf 32 or 64 or if you have a rarher good amp K600 or Seahf 150. Sorted


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> Just get Seahf 32 or 64 or if you have a rarher good amp K600 or Seahf 150. Sorted



Glad you edited that! 

Regarding the K600's, are you referring to these?


----------



## HungryPanda

Not quite mine but similar, have recently bought K200 in red to accompany my K300's


----------



## RodRevenge

HungryPanda said:


> Just get Seahf 32 or 64 or if you have a rarher good amp K600 or Seahf 150. Sorted


Your love for the seahf gets me pumped for my 64 that are on the way


----------



## Danneq

waynes world said:


> Yeah, confusing! You can't go wrong with the NiceHCK graphenes. But according to ClioOS, it seems that the nameless and the graphenes are quite similar:
> _
> "DIY Graphene and PT15 share a lot of common traits, so yes, I'll say they are much more like sidegrade of each other than upgrade
> Compared to PT15 / DIY Graphene, Nameless is tuned a littler smoother overall. But as far as overall sound quality goes, they are more or less at around the same level. Nameless is mainly a more relaxing earbud to listen to while PT15 / DIY Graphene are more aggressive i, their presentation."_



I'd say that they are all on around the same level SQ wise. My preference of those three is Nameless since it has got an overall more polished sound without losing details.


----------



## HungryPanda

RodRevenge said:


> Your love for the seahf gets me pumped for my 64 that are on the way



Seahf all the way....... Music Nirvana


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 6, 2017)

waynes world said:


> Glad you edited that!
> 
> Regarding the K600's, are you referring to these?


I think passing by the graphene's would be a mistake. It will be killing you to miss out on the hype and wonder if it was deserved 

Guys what seahf is best for mobile source, and is it worth getting the lower impendence versions vs graphene's/cygnus etc. Do you recommend it?

Eventually I'll buy a DAP that can run 150+ ohm's with interest, but right now it's not a logical purchase.


----------



## golov17

Btw, Graphene have 16 ohm, Nameless 32


----------



## euge

seanc6441 said:


> I think passing by the graphene's would be a mistake. It will be killing you to miss out on the hype and wonder if it was deserved
> 
> Guys what seahf is best for mobile source, and is it worth getting the lower impendence versions vs graphene's/cygnus etc. Do you recommend it?
> 
> Eventually I'll buy a DAP that can run 150+ ohm's with interest, but right now it's not a logical purchase.



Didn't like the look of the cable on the 32 and 64ohm seahf, maybe they do sound better without amp than the 150c, but for me the 150c is fine without amp since I don't usually have the volume cranked up anyway.
Normally i would have my volume around 25% and with the 150c I would go up to 55%.

Just get both


----------



## SweetEars

anyone one know of anythign with a  deep sound stage as in depth . 3D holographic with lot of air and sub bass ? I seem to like this in the emx 500


----------



## seanc6441

euge said:


> Didn't like the look of the cable on the 32 and 64ohm seahf, maybe they do sound better without amp than the 150c, but for me the 150c is fine without amp since I don't usually have the volume cranked up anyway.
> Normally i would have my volume around 25% and with the 150c I would go up to 55%.
> 
> Just get both


Some buds don't really reach their potential without an amp I try to buy earbuds suited to mobile sources. I've heard above that you need an amp to properly drive the f150c and I'd rather buy earbuds that reach their potential or very close to it from mobile sources.

That's only why I ask, Thanks


----------



## SweetEars

i was using IEMS many years ago but i cannot stand their soundstage, they lack height .. is it true for the current IEMS?


----------



## waynes world (Nov 6, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> Some buds don't really reach their potential without an amp I try to buy earbuds suited to mobile sources. I've heard above that you need an amp to properly drive the f150c *and I'd rather buy earbuds that reach their potential or very close to it from mobile sources.*



I usually feel that way as well. My Zens definitely need, nay _demand_  an amp to get them to where they need to be. But with the graphenes, although they really do show their full potential with some tender loving amp-age, they still sound awesome out of my S7 phone (exynos) or Xduoo X3. So I suspect that like @euge says, I will find the 150C's to be similar, and I will be able to enjoy them wherever.


----------



## acap13 (Nov 6, 2017)

Guys, regarding the Seahf 150C, I havent tried it yet. I dont know how it drives off from something like a mobile phone or small player. Having 150ohm impedance is not that concerning but rather on sensitivity is the most worrying part when its 85db. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong but play it to acceptable level of volume from mobile phone does not mean it can be driven properly. Its totally different case where you have a 32 ohm and sensitivity of say commonly 105db-120db. Guess thats one of guideline in choosing which earbud you want based on your setup. The specifications are there to be referred, aren't it? Again please shed me some light on this thing. Thank you!


----------



## HungryPanda

On my phone the Seafh 32 ohm sounds really good


----------



## acap13 (Nov 7, 2017)

HungryPanda said:


> On my phone the Seafh 32 ohm sounds really good



32 ohm should be no problem from my experience. The Seahf 150C is quite worrying me with its rated sensitivity. Rather inefficient for someone who do not plan to pair it with at least high power portable player to drive it properly. Though I had a nightmare with one 32 ohm earbud previously. Struggled to drive it off from my mobile phone though the volume quite reaching to normal loudness. It sounds sub par to my ears and bass sounds anaemic and screechy at times. Moving on to my Ibasso DX50, its quite an improvement though I pushed it quite high for an earbud to deliver the clean power through it. From phone, I found I always push it to max without extra headroom. Turned out the sensitivity is rated at 100db. Therefore, its explaining why I'm quite worried with 85db driver.


----------



## chaiyuta

ClieOS said:


> I only know about only one version of HY1000. It is pretty well balanced and tilting toward neutral, bass might be a bit lean if you don't use foam, though still not going to be anywhere near bass heavy even with foam. Mid is clean and well render, not particularly sweet nor dry. Treble is well extended and crisp, not the most analytical sound in earbuds but still above average in detail.


Thanks. Could you share more the comparison between HY1000 vs Toneking Unicorn?


----------



## RodRevenge

You guys like gaming? Whats your to go pair for that? Right now im using my faaeals and it sounds actually nice.


----------



## eaglesgift

acap13 said:


> 32 ohm should be no problem from my experience. The Seahf 150C is quite worrying me with its rated sensitivity. Rather inefficient for someone who do not plan to pair it with at least high power portable player to drive it properly. Though I had a nightmare with one 32 ohm earbud previously. Struggled to drive it off from my mobile phone though the volume quite reaching to normal loudness. It sounds sub par to my ears and bass sounds anaemic and screechy at times. Moving on to my Ibasso DX50, its quite an improvement though I pushed it quite high for an earbud to deliver the clean power through it. From phone, I found I always push it to max without extra headroom. Turned out the sensitivity is rated at 100db. Therefore, its explaining why I'm quite worried with 85db driver.


I'm quite confused about amping requirements. A lot of the cheaper amps I've seen only output 100mw or so. Firstly, I don't know if the rated power is per channel or total and secondly, does this mean that if I use something like a Cayin N3, with 130mw per channel, that buying a 100mw amp would be a waste of time? Would the N3 be able to drive the Seafh 150-ohms?


----------



## acap13

eaglesgift said:


> I'm quite confused about amping requirements. A lot of the cheaper amps I've seen only output 100mw or so. Firstly, I don't know if the rated power is per channel or total and secondly, does this mean that if I use something like a Cayin N3, with 130mw per channel, that buying a 100mw amp would be a waste of time? Would the N3 be able to drive the Seafh 150-ohms?



I think some manufacturers need to be more specific on stating specifications for their product in the future. Thats only suggestion for them to help few people who are going to stick with it. I looked up at Cayin website and see their specifications are examplary and helping alot. Anyway, Cayin N3 as DAP should be enough for most earbuds IMO. For driving Seahf 150C, I think it will struggle a bit. Driving them to normal human level listening is achieveable but at 150 mW per channel, I'm afraid it will clip as volume goes higher. However, buying a portable amp could be tricky. 100mW portable should safely be ideal choice for easy to drive earbuds. It will do wonderful job supplying those clean 100mW to that type of earbuds. Assuming Seahf 150C sensitivity rated at 85db/1mW, it will need 316.2 mW to reach 110 db SPL. Most of cases, reaching 110 db SPL is not ideal for pratical listening volume. However, its where the headroom of your amplifier lies on. Not too high and not too low. It just a reference for suitable gain for your earbud. At least, you can choose which volume levels are to be desired. YMMV


----------



## eaglesgift

acap13 said:


> I think some manufacturers need to be more specific on stating specifications for their product in the future. Thats only suggestion for them to help few people who are going to stick with it. I looked up at Cayin website and see their specifications are examplary and helping alot. Anyway, Cayin N3 as DAP should be enough for most earbuds IMO. For driving Seahf 150C, I think it will struggle a bit. Driving them to normal human level listening is achieveable but at 150 mW per channel, I'm afraid it will clip as volume goes higher. However, buying a portable amp could be tricky. 100mW portable should safely be ideal choice for easy to drive earbuds. It will do wonderful job supplying those clean 100mW to that type of earbuds. Assuming Seahf 150C sensitivity rated at 85db/1mW, it will need 316.2 mW to reach 110 db SPL. Most of cases, reaching 110 db SPL is not ideal for pratical listening volume. However, its where the headroom of your amplifier lies on. Not too high and not too low. It just a reference for suitable gain for your earbud. At least, you can choose which volume levels are to be desired. YMMV


Thanks very much 

When you say the amp would need 316.2 mW to reach 110 dB SPL, is that per channel or in total? That's where I get very confused because some manufacturers specify per channel and some don't.


----------



## acap13

eaglesgift said:


> Thanks very much
> 
> When you say the amp would need 316.2 mW to reach 110 dB SPL, is that per channel or in total? That's where I get very confused because some manufacturers specify per channel and some don't.



Yes, that should be rated for per channel


----------



## eaglesgift

acap13 said:


> Yes, that should be rated for per channel


Thanks - appreciate your help.


----------



## music4mhell

Hello Old frnds,

What's happening in earbud world ?
Any new flagships available other than Zen black / CAX ?


----------



## miroslav

What's the difference between Seahf AWK-F32S and AWK-F32T. The T version has transparent shells and it is described as "2017 New", but does it actually sound better? 

Also, why are the non-mic white F-32S more expensive than black one with mic? Shouldn't it be the other way round?

I am a Vido user as of recently and I've decided to treat myself on 11/11 with an upgrade. I thought I was decided on **** PT15, but now I'm seriously considering Seahfs.


----------



## ClieOS

chaiyuta said:


> Thanks. Could you share more the comparison between HY1000 vs Toneking Unicorn?



Unicorn is a bit on the warm and smooth side, if not just a little bit mid centric. Good with male vocal and slow music, otherwise fairly polite all around and could really use more excitement in its presentation. Toneking listed Unicorn as Tomahawk's 'upgrade', though in truth it kind of goes opposite to Tomahawk's sound signature.


----------



## KookaBurrra

After a long quest, I find my "end-game" earbud : Shozy BK. Liquid, Natural, Full Sound (like a full-size headphone) : incredible earbud! I'm in love!!


----------



## mochill

KookaBurrra said:


> After a long quest, I find my "end-game" earbud : Shozy BK. Liquid, Natural, Full Sound (like a full-size headphone) : incredible earbud! I'm in love!!


Glad to hear that you are enjoying the endgame buds that I love as well


----------



## j4100

eaglesgift said:


> I'm quite confused about amping requirements. A lot of the cheaper amps I've seen only output 100mw or so. Firstly, I don't know if the rated power is per channel or total and secondly, does this mean that if I use something like a Cayin N3, with 130mw per channel, that buying a 100mw amp would be a waste of time? Would the N3 be able to drive the Seafh 150-ohms?



I don't know the specs of the FiiO X5ii (actually, here they are http://www.fiio.net/en/products/41/parameters), but I'm playing my seahf AWK-F150C buds straight into the X5ii with the volume level just a little over halfway and they sound great. The bass is superb. Currently listening to the flac version of this album. Breathe...



FYI - I have managed 75 hours burn in on these, if it makes any difference.


----------



## j4100

I'm going to order a few more buds on 11.11. For a more expensive one, it's a toss-up between the K300 Samsara and the seahf 650, though for amping, I might just get the Samsara. I'll give the victor a good burn in and see how it and the Shozy BK sound. That's when I decide if I have an endgame bud, or whether I have the bud bug and need to consider something much further up the food chain 

I'm definitely getting another seahf 150, just in case anything happens to the one I have at the moment. So happy with that one.


----------



## waynes world

j4100 said:


> I have been reading through most of this year's posts on this thread and have an incredible urge to order a ton of new earbuds, mainly due to the enthusiasm of the contributors. However, since I am currently enjoying the seahf 150s (with FiiO X5ii and A3), I'm fighting of that urge. I also have the Graphene but prefer the 150 at the moment. Neither are properly burned in though. I also need to wait till the Shozy BKs arrive and I get a good listen to them.
> 
> 11-11 is approaching and my will power isn't the best.



With the Shozy BKs, Seahf 150's and the graphenes in your ears, you'd think that you could resist 11-11.

GOOD LUCK! 

edit: I just read your above post... lol!


----------



## j4100

waynes world said:


> With the Shozy BKs, Seahf 150's and the graphenes in your ears, you'd think that you could resist 11-11.
> 
> GOOD LUCK!
> 
> edit: I just read your above post... lol!



Reading through most of this thread. The enthusiasm for buds is infectious! I can always give a few pairs away to family


----------



## seanc6441

RodRevenge said:


> You guys like gaming? Whats your to go pair for that? Right now im using my faaeals and it sounds actually nice.


Used to game, specifically RTS (command and conquer 3) or FPS tactical games. Of course I had to cgive that up when my hands developed Capal Tunnel Syndrome. Now I cannot game anymore but luckily it only affects gaming/typing, and not overall hand usage so I can still play sports (I play badminton).


----------



## seanc6441

I know (i think) it's sensitivity and not impendence that determines mostly how good and well driven the earbud will be out of a mobile source, but by preferencing 16/32 ohm earbuds you usually find more mobile friendly options.

Lucky for me the shozy buds are low impendace. 16 ohm I think?


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Used to game, specifically RTS (command and conquer 3) or FPS tactical games. Of course I had to cgive that up when my hands developed Capal Tunnel Syndrome. Now I cannot game anymore *but luckily it only affects gaming/typing,* and not overall hand usage so I can still play sports (I play badminton).



As long as you can get those earbuds up to your ears, you should be okay!

Seriously, that's a bit of a bummer, but I'm glad you're able to play sports (especially badminton, which seems to involve some serious wrist work)


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> As long as you can get those earbuds up to your ears, you should be okay!
> 
> Seriously, that's a bit of a bummer, but I'm glad you're able to play sports (especially badminton, which seems to involve some serious wrist work)


Yes it's not fun, I got it in my teens now I'm 22. You don't expect these kinds of issues at my age but hey at least I get to play the sports I love.

Yes it does involve all sorts of wrist/arm/shoulder movement, very fasinating sport to watch (look up lin dan vs lee chong wei 2017 on YT for excellent games) and t's even more fun to play. Started out for me as another school sport, but I loved playing i so much I joined aclub and now 9 years later I'm still playing in a competitive league.

As long as my ears keep working I'll be enjoying earbuds xD


----------



## j4100

seanc6441 said:


> Used to game, specifically RTS (command and conquer 3) or FPS tactical games. Of course I had to cgive that up when my hands developed Capal Tunnel Syndrome. Now I cannot game anymore but luckily it only affects gaming/typing, and not overall hand usage so I can still play sports (I play badminton).


Good to hear you still have use of your hands, though sorry to hear about this. My day job involves a lot of typing and im a bit of a gamer,  so worry about this from time to time.


----------



## seanc6441

j4100 said:


> Good to hear you still have use of your hands, though sorry to hear about this. My day job involves a lot of typing and im a bit of a gamer,  so worry about this from time to time.


Seems some people are more prone to it than others, I have thin wrists also which doesn't help at Carpal Tunnel is a pressuring of the nerves running through your wrist by the wrist muscle. There's a surgery to help relive the pressure and fix issue, but you can imagine at 22 I'm reluctant to risk further damage or any complications from a surgery (my doctor stated as much) so for now I'm off games.


----------



## j4100

seanc6441 said:


> but you can imagine at 22 I'm reluctant to risk further damage or any complications from a surgery (my doctor stated as much) so for now I'm off games.



Wise man. Good luck!


----------



## waynes world (Nov 7, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> Yes it does involve all sorts of wrist/arm/shoulder movement, very fasinating sport to watch (look up lin dan vs lee chong wei 2017 on YT for excellent games) and t's even more fun to play. Started out for me as another school sport, but I loved playing i so much I joined aclub and now 9 years later I'm still playing in a competitive league.



I played for a bit, and it is a fun game. I was really into handball (you use both hands, no raquets), but my body couldn't take it - I'd get bone bruises right through my hands. So then I  switched to squash which is also an incredible game. But now I just generally stick to table tennis lol!



seanc6441 said:


> As long as my ears keep working I'll be enjoying earbuds xD



You'll keep your ears working as long as you stick with buds and avoid iems! Well, at least for me anyway. I had a enough accidental loud bursts with iems that I decided to start avoiding them. Also, they seem to flare up tinnitus in my left ear (whereas buds don't), so there's that as well. Oh, and protect your ears when at concerts! There, done with my OT my preaching for the day


----------



## luckyeights

Anyone compare shozy bk to K's Samsara.  I have the Samsara now and I LOVE it its my favorite out of my mountain of earbuds.  But you know always looking for something better =D  Im also considering the campfred2 as the next bud.  or if anyone knows of any upcoming buds.


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> Hello Old frnds,
> 
> What's happening in earbud world ?
> Any new flagships available other than Zen black / CAX ?



Howdy! It's been a long time!

Nothing really new in the $250+ TOTL department. Well, except for the new Moondrop. But it's supposed to not be too far from Shozy Stardust in sound quality, so it might be a bit overpriced.

You could always have a pair of Red Dragon custom made by Herry of Cypherus. It'll be $700+ mainly because of the materials used for the cables.

I was lucky to buy the only pair on existence second hand when the original owner decided to focus on other hobbies. I paid around $100 less than the original price, but around $600 was still much more than I had paid for a pair of earbuds before. But as a Cypherus fan I couldn't let them pass me by...
I sold my pair of CAX Black after buying Red Dragon. CAX Black is really great, but Red Dragon is more than 1 step above. Amazing resolution and detail. Hard to believe it's a pair of earbuds. It makes my other TOTL earbuds such as CampFred 1 & 2, Diomnes Lv2, Stardust, Blox TM7 etc sound almost like budget earbuds in comparison. 

But the stiff cable (much worse than CAX Black & Zen Black) and also the high price of the earbuds makes me not use Red Dragon as much as I would like to.


----------



## RodRevenge

seanc6441 said:


> Seems some people are more prone to it than others, I have thin wrists also which doesn't help at Carpal Tunnel is a pressuring of the nerves running through your wrist by the wrist muscle. There's a surgery to help relive the pressure and fix issue, but you can imagine at 22 I'm reluctant to risk further damage or any complications from a surgery (my doctor stated as much) so for now I'm off games.


I have that Sx too, fixed most of the symptoms by lowering the mouse sensitivity and playing most of the time with my ps4 controller.


----------



## kurtextrem

RodRevenge said:


> You guys like gaming? Whats your to go pair for that? Right now im using my faaeals and it sounds actually nice.


tbh the most worth earbuds for gaming are Shozy Stardust and Cygnus in my opinion. Each of them has its own advantages, I like Stardust more overall for gaming & music (I play Rainbow Six Siege)


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Hello Guys! The 11.11 sale is coming!  I was wondering if you guys can suggest some Earbuds. I'm very open minded and looking for Fun. if possible for around $150?

I recently bought my first Close-Back Headphone and now I'm returning them, While they sound great I figured the environment I'm living in isn't suited for them. So now it'll be just Open-Back Headphones and Earbuds.

The One Earbud I'm eyeballing right now is the K's Samsara Version & maybe the Shozy BK? Is the BK worth the extra $65 over the Samsara? Or are their others I should rather look at?

Thanks


----------



## Wbmanns

2 pair of unopened Massdrop Monk Plus Red on eBay


----------



## noknok23

seanc6441 said:


> Lucky for me the shozy buds are low impendace. 16 ohm I think?



Many said it, shozy bk is hard to drive, needs very highfi source and/or amp to shine despite it's low impedance. There will always be exceptions


----------



## seanc6441

noknok23 said:


> Many said it, shozy bk is hard to drive, needs very highfi source and/or amp to shine despite it's low impedance. There will always be exceptions


Interesting, I've heard they drive off mobile sources well, but also impressive when amped in a review here on headfi. We will see I guess.

Cygnus drive excellent out of my 6s, but I know one shozy doesn't equal another.


----------



## RodRevenge (Nov 7, 2017)

Right now im not super happy with the sound i get from my s7 snapdragon, im thinking about getting the zuperdac do you guys think it is a good idea or just a waste of money is the upgrade in soh d worthI  it?

Sorry if its out of topic.


----------



## waynes world (Nov 8, 2017)

RodRevenge said:


> Right now im not super happy with the sound i get from my s7 snapdragon, im thinking about getting the zuperdac do you guys think it is a good idea or just a waste of money is the upgrade in soh d worthI  it?
> Sorry if its out of topic.



The zuperdac is great. I have one for my phone (I used it a lot with my old S5), and another for my laptop. It would definitely be worth it for you.

Btw, it's a shame they didn't use the exynos chip in the US version of the S7 (I have it, and quite like the SQ).


----------



## chaiyuta

seanc6441 said:


> Yes it's not fun, I got it in my teens now I'm 22. You don't expect these kinds of issues at my age but hey at least I get to play the sports I love.
> 
> Yes it does involve all sorts of wrist/arm/shoulder movement, very fasinating sport to watch (look up lin dan vs lee chong wei 2017 on YT for excellent games) and t's even more fun to play. Started out for me as another school sport, but I loved playing i so much I joined aclub and now 9 years later I'm still playing in a competitive league.
> 
> As long as my ears keep working I'll be enjoying earbuds xD


When i saw both guys competition. It looks like gay king vs gay queen fighting.lol just kidding. If you stop playing earbuds hobby, you might save money up for new badminton racket e.g. arc Z limited.


----------



## music4mhell

Danneq said:


> Howdy! It's been a long time!
> 
> Nothing really new in the $250+ TOTL department. Well, except for the new Moondrop. But it's supposed to not be too far from Shozy Stardust in sound quality, so it might be a bit overpriced.
> 
> ...



Hello Buddy, how is life, i am doing great. After 7 months i am writing in this forum.
I am happy with my Zen black and RA 2B. I will wait for VE Nirvana and will go for it.

I never liked CAX at first place. Hope to become more active again in this forum


----------



## Danneq

music4mhell said:


> Hello Buddy, how is life, i am doing great. After 7 months i am writing in this forum.
> I am happy with my Zen black and RA 2B. I will wait for VE Nirvana and will go for it.
> 
> I never liked CAX at first place. Hope to become more active again in this forum



Thanks, been a bit busy with the family's second kid being born in August. After CAX Red Dragon I feel like I have depleted my funds for TOTL earbuds for a long time. Still I've bought some cheaper ones in the last few months.

There are some great new cheaper earbuds released, such as NiceHCK DIY PK2, NiceHCK Graphene & Moondrop Nameless. All around $20-25. I also really like Yincrow RW-777 (around $40-45). It has got a leaner sound than the others and overall I find it to be close to that vintage "dry" sound of vintage Sony and Aiwa earbuds.

I wonder if VE Nirvana will ever be released. It's almost becoming the same as the next Blox flagship (been waiting since 2012 when TM7 was released). Something of a myth or legend that everyone is talking about...

If you would be prepared to pay a lot, please check out CAX Red Dragon. While CAX Black can be a bit too neutral and is quite up front (but I do not think it is 2D, just an up front type of sound), Red Dragon has got a wide and deep soundstage with amazing detail. And the overall timbre is very natural without sounding too neutral.
It is a lot of money for  a pair of earbuds, but then again IEMs can cost several thousands.
Herry custom makes stuff like Red Dragon from the customer's preferred sound, but I find sound of the pair I've got to be just perfect if you are looking for a reference type of sound.


----------



## SweetEars

CharlesRievone said:


> Here's a cheaper option, RY4S:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4...e-MX500-style-earphone-3-5mm/32797581820.html
> 
> Basically the same units as those from Hangrui, for half the price. Been using it as my "commute" buds for months now. Still works.




are u sure they are they same? as in sounding identical? i ordered the R4YS with braided cable though, already own emx500


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 8, 2017)

chaiyuta said:


> When i saw both guys competition. It looks like gay king vs gay queen fighting.lol just kidding. If you stop playing earbuds hobby, you might save money up for new badminton racket e.g. arc Z limited.


Nothing gay about badminton  Although it gets a reputation as a woman’s sports in US/Western EU for some reason... Only to those who never actually tried it and don’t realise how much fitness and stamina you need^^ Then again football ‘soccer’ does too in the US lol.

My racket is a Victor BS12, good doubles racket also used by the Korean national team. Great racket imo. Think I spent €110 (discount from €125) on it, definitely worth it over the €200+ new yonex professional rackets lol.

Anyways better get back on topic, waiting out for my stardust today, it should be here today!


----------



## jogawag

theoutsider said:


> Is Creative Aurvana Air worth owning today?
> 
> Thanks.


It sounds clean, slightly lean, great detail, wide open soundstage.
You can comfortably wear it on your ear when removing the hook.
It is worth owning today.


----------



## eaglesgift

seanc6441 said:


> Nothing gay about badminton  Although it gets a reputation as a woman’s sports in US/Western EU for some reason... Only to those who never actually tried it and don’t realise how much fitness and stamina you need^^ Then again football ‘soccer’ does too in the US lol.
> 
> My racket is a Victor BS12, good doubles racket also used by the Korean national team. Great racket imo. Think I spent €110 (discount from €125) on it, definitely worth it over the €200+ new yonex professional rackets lol.
> 
> Anyways better get back on topic, waiting out for my stardust today, it should be here today!


I love football (soccer) and am from the UK but when I see players rolling around on the floor like they have been shot, after a fairly innocuous-looking tackle, I have to admit they don't do themselves any favours on the 'gay image' front!


----------



## seanc6441

eaglesgift said:


> I love football (soccer) and am from the UK but when I see players rolling around on the floor like they have been shot, after a fairly innocuous-looking tackle, I have to admit they don't do themselves any favours on the 'gay image' front!


Well you have a point! I hate the cheating in football, it's become so common place that it's normal to do and and anyone who doesn't is at a disadvantage, sickening really. You dn't see any of that kind of attitude in badminton where respect and integrity is more important to the player than simulation to win.

By the way I'm a lifelong Liverpool FC supporter, don't know how you'll take that news haha . We seem to be irrelevant in the league this season though so.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 8, 2017)

Stardust arrived. Phenomenal. Drives well out of my iphone 6s so I suspect tears will come to my eyes if I was to hear it out of a proper setup 

It sounds just like the Cygnus, with added resolution, slightly better treble extension, slightly more crisp and detailed mids.

I wouldn’t say this destroys the cygnus because that is a great earbud but this is an improvement and a TOTL sound.

I’ll make a full comparison, when I receive the graphenes,of the 4 (masya, cygnus, stardust and graphene) like I promised.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 8, 2017)

Also the cable easily the best I’ve ever seen/used. Extremely well crafted.

Listening to fleetwood macs’ ‘The Chain’ and I’m blown away by the control of this earbud with regards to treble and sub bass extension. The last 60 seconds of the song you can here every note extended perfectly with energy and excitement but somehow it never loses focus. I’ve never heard this level of quality before.

Impressive.


----------



## Danneq

seanc6441 said:


> Also the cable easily the best I’ve ever seen/used. Extremely well crafted.
> 
> Listening to fleetwood macs’ ‘The Chain’ and I’m blown away by the control of this earbud with regards to treble and sub bass extension. The last 60 seconds of the song you can here every note extended perfectly with energy and excitement but somehow it never loses focus. I’ve never heard this level of quality before.
> 
> Impressive.




Welcome to the world of TOTL earbuds! It's devastating to your wallet and bank account, though...


----------



## faser

Monk+ and Vido are a litle bit big and uncomfortable for my ears, I´m thinking to buy a EMX500 in 11-11, ¿is this the same size? can you recomend me a earbud smaller sized than those, no more than 20 euros? I am thinking about some graphene, Thanks. Good forum


----------



## zato23

@seanc6441  Can you help me please, i will buy  one of Shozy Cygnus and Rose Masya on 11/11 (price is almost same)
for Rock/Metal/Punk which one sound better for you ?
I will buy also the graphenes but as cygnus and masya are not cheap i want an opinion from someone who have them both.
As i understand in terms of comfort Cygnus are better and it is difficult to have good seal with Masya.
I dont know about sound.

Which one you would keep or better
which one you would buy (if you hadn't yet) if the price was same and why?


----------



## seanc6441

faser said:


> Monk+ and Vido are a litle bit big and uncomfortable for my ears, I´m thinking to buy a EMX500 in 11-11, ¿is this the same size? can you recomend me a earbud smaller sized than those, no more than 20 euros? I am thinking about some graphene, Thanks. Good forum


Emx500 share the same big shell as monk/vido, the mx500 shell.

Graphene shell is the same size but slightly different shape so possibly more comfortable for some (I’ve heard it’s more comfortable anyway).

Pk shells are by far the more comfortable and erogonomic. They just fit perfectly for most people, an earbud designed right.

PK shells can be found (under 20) on the DIY PK2, PK2S, EPK2 etc during the 11.11 sale it will be well within your budget.

Auglamour RX1 has an even smaller shell, but less conforming shape to the ear. It’s comfortable too, but cannot match the PK.

I suggest picking up the DIY PK2 or new PK2S panda and use monk thin foams on it (either 1 thin alone, or 1 thin and 1 thin cut donut for less treble/more bass).


----------



## eaglesgift

seanc6441 said:


> Well you have a point! I hate the cheating in football, it's become so common place that it's normal to do and and anyone who doesn't is at a disadvantage, sickening really. You dn't see any of that kind of attitude in badminton where respect and integrity is more important to the player than simulation to win.
> 
> By the way I'm a lifelong Liverpool FC supporter, don't know how you'll take that news haha . We seem to be irrelevant in the league this season though so.


As a Spurs supporter I have no sympathy for you. We turned being irrelevant into something of an art form up until recently.


----------



## wskl

faser said:


> Monk+ and Vido are a litle bit big and uncomfortable for my ears, I´m thinking to buy a EMX500 in 11-11, ¿is this the same size? can you recomend me a earbud smaller sized than those, no more than 20 euros? I am thinking about some graphene, Thanks. Good forum



Qian39 also uses a small shell, just as comfortable as the Yuin PK shells suggested by @seanc6441

Which reminds me, VE are working on the Monk Lite for smaller ears.



Spoiler


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 8, 2017)

zato23 said:


> @seanc6441  Can you help me please, i will buy  one of Shozy Cygnus and Rose Masya on 11/11 (price is almost same)
> for Rock/Metal/Punk which one sound better for you ?
> I will buy also the graphenes but as cygnus and masya are not cheap i want an opinion from someone who have them both.
> As i understand in terms of comfort Cygnus are better and it is difficult to have good seal with Masya.
> ...


My vote goes for cygnus, I listen to rock, prog rock and soundtrack music.

Cygnus

-Slower full bass sound. Extended sub bass. analog sounding. Flows into the mids Slighty.
-Thick and neutral-warm vocals, slightly forward and detailed. Slightly dark sound.
-Mids are lush and emphasised beautifully, guitars sound vivid, strings have that texture to them that’s realistic sounding.
-Treble is sparkly/energetic but slightly rolled off. No sibilance, pleasant rather than extended and peaky.
-Very musical sound, not rough but not overly smooth either.
Soundstage is medium, all directions. Very enjoyable for a bud that can feel slightly closed in but not too mushy/congested

Masya

-Super quick tight bass, nice extension in the sub bass. So quick it never reaches into the mids.
- Crystal clear vocals but thin sounding. About equal details to cygnus but in a more bright presentation.
- Mids are wonderful and take emphasis along with the vocals. Guitar and strings are extremely delicate and sweet sounding.
-High’s are extended, slightly peaky but amazingly smooth and focused.
-Soundstage is medium-big in all directions. Very atmospheric whilst retaining intimicy of a smaller stage. Perfect IMO.

Both are at a similar level but for me the thin vocals of the masya and you’re preference for rock/metal over female vocals and symphony means I can 100% suggest the Cygnus over the masya.

Look out on the FS section. I got my cygnus for under $40... BARGAIN!


----------



## seanc6441

eaglesgift said:


> As a Spurs supporter I have no sympathy for you. We turned being irrelevant into something of an art form up until recently.


I have great respect for spurs, both their style of play (similar to ours up until this season) and their method of building a team from the ground up.

You trashed us recently (no surprise) but I’d still go for yous over arsenal hehe, always fun watching arsenal crumble under pressure though


----------



## zato23

seanc6441 said:


> My vote goes for cygnus, I listen to rock, prog rock and soundtrack music.
> 
> Cygnus
> 
> ...





Thank you very much for your extensively comparison


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 8, 2017)

zato23 said:


> Thank you very much for your extensively comparison


Your welcome. BTW i’d pair cygnus with a bright source if you want it to sound balanced as it can be slightly dark sounding.

Masya needs a warmer analog source to help balance its bright sound.

The quick attack of the masya might be cool for metal but the cygnus is no slouch either and brings a more gritty fuller sound that would also make rock/metal more immersive.

The cygnus basically handles most genre’s with ease, except pure orchestra/symphony maybe. Soundtracks still sound good though, but masya has the edge on soundstage making it feel like full size headphones sometimes.

Both drive easily off mobile sources too.


----------



## seanc6441

@zato23 sorry you mentioned comfort I didn’t see, but yes Masya are a unique design and whilst they aren’t as big as you’d think (smaller diameter than mx500 shell) they are too thin on the front grille to properly grip your ears without different foam combinations. They also protrude out because of the double drivers so are by no means small enough to rest with against a pillow for example.

Cygnus are the most comfortable shell, pk shell is small and compact and fits easily. Best design of a shell and easily wins for comfort.


----------



## euge

faser said:


> Monk+ and Vido are a litle bit big and uncomfortable for my ears, I´m thinking to buy a EMX500 in 11-11, ¿is this the same size? can you recomend me a earbud smaller sized than those, no more than 20 euros? I am thinking about some graphene, Thanks. Good forum



Actually there are pk1 shells option for the multiple diy emx500s.


----------



## chaiyuta

@seanc6441 : Among badminton players, I like mixed double, Lee Yong Dae and Shin Seung Chan, most. I prefer watching double rather than single. Lin Dan is somewhat Barbarian. He has so hard hitting. While Lee Chong Wei.. looks weak guy though he is tough now. Another funny things likes~ drama of cable that is their accessories.. If you noticed you might see they are wearing necklace or bracelet named "Phiten"... If you are interested in those kind of thing, you might google it for details. Another skeptical things for you.

Back to earbuds topic. I would like to introduce one DIY repair&mod shop in Thailand named "B Rabbit Hifi", some guys here might know that they sell their original earbuds, Frigga series.. wooden housing made of Poplar wood.. For those who interest only TOTL gadgets should take a look. hehe


----------



## seanc6441

euge said:


> Actually there are pk1 shells option for the multiple diy emx500s.


Good spot. I forgot about that. Would be a good choice to pick up a diy pk2 for $15 and a EMX500 (pk shell) from the seller who shall not be named for $12.

That would give you the best of both worlds and doesn’t break the bank.


----------



## luckyeights

Is shozy going to be releasing a new bud here soon? 

Is the RY4S better than the emx500?   What about the new AK emx500?  

Also still curious as to how the Samsara stacks up to shozy bk and campfred 2.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 8, 2017)

chaiyuta said:


> @seanc6441 : Among badminton players, I like mixed double, Lee Yong Dae and Shin Seung Chan, most. I prefer watching double rather than single. Lin Dan is somewhat Barbarian. He has so hard hitting. While Lee Chong Wei.. looks weak guy though he is tough now. Another funny things likes~ drama of cable that is their accessories.. If you noticed you might see they are wearing necklace or bracelet named "Phiten"... If you are interested in those kind of thing, you might google it for details. Another skeptical things for you.
> 
> Back to earbuds topic. I would like to introduce one DIY repair&mod shop in Thailand named "B Rabbit Hifi", some guys here might know that they sell their original earbuds, Frigga series.. wooden housing made of Poplar wood.. For those who interest only TOTL gadgets should take a look. hehe



I play doubles mostly (because of court space) in my club of 70 members but I enjoy watching singles more. Lin dan is without doubt my favourite player in style but also LCW for his ability. LYD was a great doubles player of course, i watched a few games of his lately. So good.

I’m waiting for the return of kento momota because I enjoy watching him play a lot.

—————————————————————
Here in Ireland the closest thing to a hifi shop is your average electronics store selling beats, sennheiser, bose, sony and JVC etc. products mostly. Any consumer brand basically and only headphones really.

The earbuds and iem’s would be consumer grade sennheiser or bose or bargin bin stuff.

You can imagine my excitement at visiting those stores... lol

I’m sure there’s some niche hifi store around but they are not hugely popular or plentiful sadly


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 8, 2017)

@zato23 Well I have some bad news, I think the masya beats out the cygnus on metal (just listened to two tracks). Masya’s quicker attack and cleaner bass makes it sound sharper and the soundstage is awesome. There’s more defined lines between bass mids and high’s which bring life to the metal sound. Cygnus has a hard time dealing with the speed and soundstage isn’t as big to handle the congestion of metal. It’s not bad just not wow amazing whereas the masya is quite pleasing on metal tracks for a vocal orientated earbud.

On rock Cygnus is better, more full and vivid. End of story.

Stardust is the best of both worlds... but pricey.

I still think the cygnus will satisfy most tracks but if you want the ultimate separation and space in metal look elsewhere.

My two cents would be to grab a cygnus in the FS second hand for $40-50 and grab another $40 earbud suited specifically for metal.


----------



## zato23 (Nov 8, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> @zato23 Well I have some bad news, I think the masya edges out the cygnus on metal (just listened to two tracks). Masya’s quicker attack and cleaner bass makes it sound sharper and the soundstage is awesome. Cygnus has a hard time dealing with the speed and soundstage isn’t as big to handle the congestion of metal. It’s not bad just not wow amazing whereas the masya is quite pleasing on metal tracks for a vocal earbud.
> 
> On rock Cygnus is better, more full and vivid. End of story.
> 
> ...




Thank you ,that make my choice easier as i like the uniqe design of Masya
Probably i will go for Masya's and if i dont like  them i will try to sell them and buy the stardust
Thanks again


----------



## seanc6441

zato23 said:


> Thank you ,that make my choice easier as i like the uniqe design of Masya
> Probably i will go for Masya's and if i dont like  them i will try to sell them and buy the stardust
> Thanks again


Masya is excellent clean sound with deep bass and clear high’s. It’s just the vocals that are thin and bright, not my taste.

If you prefer warm sound don’t buy the masya, but if clarity and neutrality are your thing masya is a good choice.

If you can stretch to the stardust price, it’s the best of masya and cygnus in one earbud. I recommend it as a long term solution to excellent sound.


----------



## HungryPanda

+1 for the Masya, a most excellent earbud indeed


----------



## zato23

seanc6441 said:


> Masya is excellent clean sound with deep bass and clear high’s. It’s just the vocals that are thin and bright, not my taste.
> 
> If you prefer warm sound don’t buy the masya, but if clarity and neutrality are your thing masya is a good choice.
> 
> If you can stretch to the stardust price, it’s the best of masya and cygnus in one earbud. I recommend it as a long term solution to excellent sound.



As the stardust dont have big discount on 11/11 i will wait to raise some funds and go for it
Thanks


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 8, 2017)

zato23 said:


> As the stardust dont have big discount on 11/11 i will wait to raise some funds and go for it
> Thanks


You will not be disappointed. Clioes has it ranked at #3 on top earbuds list. The build quality is premium as is the sound.

EDIT: This probably doesn’t instill much confidence in my opinion but after ABing the Masya and Stardust with Rock/Metal/Punk I’ll conclude the following.

Rock - Stardust > Masya
Metal - Masya > Stardust
Punk Stardust = Masya (depends on the track or sub genre)

Masya undoubtedly can handle the congestion of metal and punk like a pro. Vocals don’t shine through, but everything is clear and well defined.

Stardust can also handle MOST tracks, but in comparison to the masya it stuggles for overly congested pieces where every gets a little overwhelming. Vocals are better fuller and more detailed but that doesn’t always benefit metal (punk more so but not massively).

If you’re looking for a perfect sound for all three genre’s maybe ask someone with other earbuds in that price range who listen to metal/punk.

My music tastes revolve around Radiohead, Pink Floyd types of prog and alternative rock mostly for which the stardust excels.

Gun to face I’d say buy the Masya, but I know you’ll either love or hate the vocals unless you find a perfect source for the best synergy.

Damn, this isn’t helpful at all is it lol.

What’s your source? Maybe that will help us more.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 8, 2017)

@zato23 ^^^^^update above please read it before you spend your money!

Just ran them both out of my new laptop. Laptop has a punchier bass but neutral overall sound.

Masya vocals have thickened nicely, but the whole overall sound is very smooth maybe too smooth for metal and punk.

Stardust has gained a little bit of space on metal punk tracks but bass is still abit wholly/slow for metal or punk.

On the laptop it’s 50/50 depending on TRACK rather than genre now. This isn’t an easy decision lol.

I see that Masya is €75 during 11.11 for black original version. At that price I’d keep that as my first choice with the right source it will sing.

The source is too important to ignore.

Source?


----------



## zato23

seanc6441 said:


> @zato23 ^^^^^update above please read it before you spend your money!



Your posts are very helpful 

My source are portable devices like fiio x5 III ,xduoo X10  ,xduoo x3 ,zishan Z1  
After your A/B test and  HungryPanda  comment i think Masya would be great for me

I have some days to think which one to choose 

Thank you very much for everything


----------



## seanc6441

zato23 said:


> Your posts are very helpful
> 
> My source are portable devices like fiio x5 III ,xduoo X10  ,xduoo x3 ,zishan Z1
> After your A/B test and  HungryPanda  comment i think Masya would be great for me
> ...



oh you have many sources, get the masya and find which of your DAP’s will suit it best.

I haven’t used my masya for weeks because it sucked on my iphone 6s. It’s going to be my main earbud for my laptop now. Sounds 10x better. Shozy for my phone sounds excellent.

Masya it is. I have found a great foam combo for it on aliexpress if you’re interested. 75 is a great price for masya. Enjoy


----------



## zato23

seanc6441 said:


> oh you have many sources, get the masya and find which of your DAP’s will suit it best.
> 
> I haven’t used my masya for weeks because it sucked on my iphone 6s. It’s going to be my main earbud for my laptop now. Sounds 10x better. Shozy for my phone sounds excellent.
> 
> Masya it is. I have found a great foam combo for it on aliexpress if you’re interested. 75 is a great price for masya. Enjoy



Thanks
send me the aliexpress link for foam


----------



## SweetEars

luckyeights said:


> Is shozy going to be releasing a new bud here soon?
> 
> Is the RY4S better than the emx500?   What about the new AK emx500?
> 
> Also still curious as to how the Samsara stacks up to shozy bk and campfred 2.



there 2 reviews ( one in headffi and aliexpress)  which say the R4YS is better than the emx500


----------



## seanc6441

zato23 said:


> Thanks
> send me the aliexpress link for foam



VE Monk thin foams on first, then on top use this full foam but cut a hole to make it donut. It's a foam recommended by Golov for clarity in between monk thin and normal full foam.

Here's the link to the VE monk ex pack https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ven...ne-Hifi-Headphone-Still-5USD/32417311324.html

And here's the link the second foams for donut (100pcs) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...p-Ear-Pads-Cover-Replacement/32790634729.html

You're going to laugh when you see he price of the second foams (or maybe cry when you see the price of ve monk ex pack after shipping.

Overall this is giving me the best results on a source like my laptop where I do not have to compensate for thin vocals with thick foams. Now everything it clear, punchy and detailed but has a nice warmth and fullness I didn't realise the masya even was cable of.


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm happy with thin full foams on my masya's


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> I'm happy with thin full foams on my masya's


I found that it killed the clarity for me, then again I find that with full foams on all my buds.


----------



## HungryPanda

I use donuts on certain ones but not the masya


----------



## waynes world

zato23 said:


> Your posts are very helpful
> 
> My source are portable devices like fiio x5 III ,xduoo X10  ,xduoo x3 ,zishan Z1
> After your A/B test and  HungryPanda  comment i think Masya would be great for me
> ...



zato23, send all of your daps over to @seanc6441. I would love to read about his experiences comparing all of his new earbuds with all of those sources! If anyone has some good dacs and amps for seanc to use on his desktop, send'em over as well!


----------



## RodRevenge

waynes world said:


> The zuperdac is great. I have one for my phone (I used it a lot with my old S5), and another for my laptop. It would definitely be worth it for you.
> 
> Btw, it's a shame they didn't use the exynos chip in the US version of the S7 (I have it, and quite like the SQ).


Yes it is a shame some people say the sound is way worse out of the snapdragon, and i agree, first time i heard the sound out of this phone i was underwhelmed, even tho it is still a really good smartphone.

Ok then im ordering the zuperdac for my birthday, how long is the delivery time?


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> zato23, send all of your daps over to @seanc6441. I would love to read about his experiences comparing all of his new earbuds with all of those sources! If anyone has some good dacs and amps for seanc to use on his desktop, send'em over as well!


Sounds like a plan lol


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 8, 2017)

RodRevenge said:


> Yes it is a shame some people say the sound is way worse out of the snapdragon, and i agree, first time i heard the sound out of this phone i was underwhelmed, even tho it is still a really good smartphone.
> 
> Ok then im ordering the zuperdac for my birthday, how long is the delivery time?


I was looking into the Audioquest Dragonfly Black V1.5. Gets loads of raving reviews but also some people saying the improvement is minimal on mobile sources.

The thing is, what determines SQ on the source side? The audio chip?

I know AMP’s can affect the sound on high end systems (like smand there’s different kinds of amp but is there such thing as DAC grading or is either GOOD or BAD?

I reckon using a decent but not amazing source like iphone 6s it wouldn’t matter if i plugged in the dragonfly red dac amp or the chord mojo amp, I’d still be limited by the 6s chip.

Anyone wanna share some light on this? Let’s assume the earbud in question is driven easily off a phone. What is the advantage of a portable DAC/Amp other than the ability to driven more demanding sources?


----------



## j4100

chaiyuta said:


> @seanc6441 : Back to earbuds topic. I would like to introduce one DIY repair&mod shop in Thailand named "B Rabbit Hifi", some guys here might know that they sell their original earbuds, Frigga series.. wooden housing made of Poplar wood.. For those who interest only TOTL gadgets should take a look. hehe



Wow! They look good. TOTL indeed


----------



## waynes world

RodRevenge said:


> Yes it is a shame some people say the sound is way worse out of the snapdragon, and i agree, first time i heard the sound out of this phone i was underwhelmed, even tho it is still a really good smartphone.
> 
> Ok then im ordering the zuperdac for my birthday, how long is the delivery time?



Hmm, not sure. Where are you getting it from?

Btw, this is a good thread on the zuperdac:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/zorloo-zuperdac-review-by-mark2410.789656/

Also you should be aware that the zuperdac's  output impedance is  4 ohms (I think). That's not a factor for me, but it might be for you if you have BA iems.

Oh yeah, you should also consider getting the UAPP app (Usb Audio Player Pro) for your phone to bypass your phone's audio drivers etc

Also note that your phones battery will take a bit of a hit. But fortunately the S7's battery is very good.


----------



## waynes world (Nov 8, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> I was looking into the Audioquest Dragonfly Black V1.5. Gets loads of raving reviews but also some people saying the improvement is minimal on mobile sources.
> 
> The thing is, what determines SQ on the source side? The audio chip?
> 
> ...



At least with the Samsung phones, you can get an app like UAPP to completely bypass the phone's audio circuitry and go directly through to the attached DAC (ie zuperdac, dragonfly).

With my S5, using UAPP and the Zuperdac made for a HUGE difference sonically. The S7 (exynos) SQ is quite good though, and although it's not as good as the zuperdac, I enjoy the sound. So more often than not I don't attach the zuperdac to it (mainly for the convenience of not having to have anything attached to it, and to reduce battery drain).

I do use my other zuperdac off of my laptop permanently though. And I also have a couple of portable amps that I use (not only do they add oomph when required, but I like controlling the volume using their volume pots).


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 8, 2017)

waynes world said:


> At least with the Samsung phones, you can get an app like UAPP to completely bypass the phone's audio circuitry and go directly through to the attached DAC (ie zuperdac, dragonfly).
> 
> With my S5, using UAPP and the Zuperdac made for a HUGE difference sonically. The S7 (exynos) SQ is quite good though, and although it's not as good as the zuperdac, I enjoy the sound. So more often than not I don't attach the zuperdac to it (mainly for the convenience of not having to have anything attached to it, and to reduce battery drain).
> 
> I do use my other zuperdac off of my laptop permanently though. And I also have a couple of portable amps that I use (not only do they add oomph when required, but I like controlling the volume using their volume pots).



I'm not sure if apple allows this kind of behavior *sigh*. I bought a fiio i1 mini dap amp that connects to the lightning port and 3.5mm jack out. Sure it boosted the volume slighty and the sound was SLIGHTY different, I think, not even sure on that point. But it didn't sound any better and infact was less clean sounding than the phone itself quiet possibly.

I'm just worried about spending almost $100 on a dragonfly black, then having to buy the apple camera kit USB to lightning connector (probably like $20 + knowing apple) and then maybe even the audioquest jitterbug to cut down noise/interference. That's probably near $180+ for audio quality I'm not 100% sure will be better because you have some hifi HYPEBEASTS saying it's changed how they experience music through their portable device whilst others are saying they prefered the phones mobile dac. *rolls eyes*

I'd love to hear these things first and buy later!


----------



## Danneq

You could try to find a second hand Sansa Clip+ or Clip Zip in good condition. Tiny and with great sound. Unfortunately they are a few years old and since they are discontinued prices go up.


----------



## seanc6441

Danneq said:


> You could try to find a second hand Sansa Clip+ or Clip Zip in good condition. Tiny and with great sound. Unfortunately they are a few years old and since they are discontinued prices go up.


The thing is I was looking at the shanling m1 and other daps around the $100 price range but I use spotify premium now as my daily source and non of these DAPs I’ve seen support spotify.

I don’t have a massive collection of FLAC music so for me it’s more about convenience of having the endless spotify libary and stuff I download on it, or the few tracks I do have on the phone itself.

Also I don’t want to carry around two devices really, the shanling m1 interested me because it was so compact yet still feature packed but I know it wouldn’t be as convient as my phone either.

My next phone will have to be the LG V30 or something lol.


----------



## Saoshyant (Nov 8, 2017)

@seanc6441 You may want to see if you can find a decent price on Fiio Q1 mkii.  It'll include the proper cable for iPhone, and initial listening is really enjoyable.  Dark Side of the Moon & The Wall sounded amazing with CampFred 2 on it using iPod Touch 5 as transport.

@Danneq Prices on Clips have become obnoxiously overkill for what it is.  Last I checked I think you might be able to get a Ruizu A50 cheaper.


----------



## seanc6441

Saoshyant said:


> @seanc6441 You may want to see if you can find a decent price on Fiio Q1 mkii.  It'll include the proper cable for iPhone, and initial listening is really enjoyable.  Dark Side of the Moon & The Wall sounded amazing with CampFred 2 on it using iPod Touch 5 as transport.


Connecting it via data cable? Didn’t know that was possible atleast with apple products. Does it bypass the iphone internal chip/dac?


----------



## Saoshyant

Yep, it sends a digital signal to the Q1 mkii's dac.  The older iOS jacks sent an analog signal out which lead to a whole industry of Line Out Docks/Jacks specifically made for audio.


----------



## RodRevenge

seanc6441 said:


> I'm not sure if apple allows this kind of behavior *sigh*. I bought a fiio i1 mini dap amp that connects to the lightning port and 3.5mm jack out. Sure it boosted the volume slighty and the sound was SLIGHTY different, I think, not even sure on that point. But it didn't sound any better and infact was less clean sounding than the phone itself quiet possibly.
> 
> I'm just worried about spending almost $100 on a dragonfly black, then having to buy the apple camera kit USB to lightning connector (probably like $20 + knowing apple) and then maybe even the audioquest jitterbug to cut down noise/interference. That's probably near $180+ for audio quality I'm not 100% sure will be better because you have some hifi HYPEBEASTS saying it's changed how they experience music through their portable device whilst others are saying they prefered the phones mobile dac. *rolls eyes*
> 
> I'd love to hear these things first and buy later!


I know that feel bro thats why i went for the S7 after having iphone as my last 2 devices (4 and 6) well that AND that stupid no headphone jack idea they had.
The LG V30 also caught my attention but i just got my S7 this year and can't afford that luxury.


----------



## RodRevenge (Nov 8, 2017)

waynes world said:


> Hmm, not sure. Where are you getting it from?
> 
> Btw, this is a good thread on the zuperdac:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/zorloo-zuperdac-review-by-mark2410.789656/
> ...



Ty for the link will check it out.
I was looking to get it from the Zoorlo official page. 
I don't own any iem, i dont like them, i was planning to get one for gym and such but thats all.


----------



## Ang Probinsyano

Does anyone have a review/impressions for Shozy Bk? Planning to get one by next week.

Just need impressions on it.

Thanks!


----------



## jogawag

Ang Probinsyano said:


> Does anyone have a review/impressions for Shozy Bk? Planning to get one by next week.
> 
> Just need impressions on it.
> 
> Thanks!


Reviews for Shozy Bk is below.
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/shozy-stardust.22043/


----------



## Ang Probinsyano

jogawag said:


> Reviews for Shozy Bk is below.
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/shozy-stardust.22043/


Thanks. Already read those reviews. Just need more impressions to convince me since this is a blind buy.


----------



## seanc6441

Ang Probinsyano said:


> Thanks. Already read those reviews. Just need more impressions to convince me since this is a blind buy.


What are you looking for sound wise? Also what’s your source?

I got the bk yesterday and love it. Have you heard the shozy Cygnus? It’s basically a cygnus upgrade.


----------



## Ang Probinsyano (Nov 8, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> What are you looking for sound wise? Also what’s your source?
> 
> I got the bk yesterday and love it. Have you heard the shozy Cygnus? It’s basically a cygnus upgrade.


Aune m1s. I'm gonna get the 2.5mm version of bk.


Neutral. Bass=quality vs quanity. More forward mids. Not piercing highs.

I have read that bk is mid forward?

I currently have the asura 2.0 3.5mm, ty hi z 32 2.5mm and monk espresso 2.5mm.

My pick is the ty hi z 32 over the monk espresso on balanced.

Just want an upgrade from ty hi z 32 with more forward mids and more sound stage around 150$. And can be ordered from penon.


I'm also open for other earbuds suggestions.

Thanks


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 8, 2017)

Ang Probinsyano said:


> Aune m1s. I'm gonna get the 2.5mm version of bk.
> 
> 
> Neutral. Bass=quality vs quanity. More forward mids. Not piercing highs.
> ...


BK is forward and thick lush mids. It’s a touch warm rather than neutral but not overly dark or anything. Very clean and vocals sound extremely high resolution for such a thick full vocal presentation.

Bass has great texture and extends reletively low. Modest mid bass thump. More wholly than quick bass sound but doesn’t get muddy thanks to its amazing resolution and remains crisp enough.

High’s extend nicely, but usually not peaky or sibilant Again, the detail is excellent here.

Soundstage is medium-large not massive but large enough to allow some space and separation on most tracks. Struggles with congestion on something like heavy metal but i think that’s down to its thick analog sounding bass/mids.

I’d pair with a clean, bright source that doesn’t bass boost. Anything overly warm or bass will add bloat to the already full sounding low end.

My only complaint is that the sound can be occasionally ‘rough’ because the resolution is so high. This earbud is mostly smooth but you get such detail that sometimes things don’t always smooth out perfectly. Better source probably handle this better than my iphone 6s though.

This earbud is amazing for rock, acoustic and vocals. Not as amazing for metal, edm.

So if your source is clean, neutral-bright and balanced. This earbud should be amazing I think. It has the shozy house signature which I loved in the Cygnus and added a noticeable amount of resolution, refinement, fuller mids and extended highs.

Altough the fuller mids can sometimes lead to abit of bloat/congestion but again source is probably the issue here, not the earbuds themselves.

Oh and they drive super easy.

EDIT: actually they can be slightly sibilant (I’m using monk thin foam) on a rare occasion whereas cygnus avoids this issue being more rolled off. It’s the price paid for extended highs I guess. It’s nothing drastic especially if you use thicker foams I feel.


----------



## Ang Probinsyano

seanc6441 said:


> BK is forward and thick lush mids. It’s a touch warm rather than neutral but not overly dark or anything. Very clean and vocals sound extremely high resolution for such a thick full vocal presentation.
> 
> Bass has great texture and extends reletively low. Modest mid bass thump. More wholly than quick bass sound but doesn’t get muddy thanks to its amazing resolution and remains crisp enough.
> 
> ...


My aune m1s is kinda neutral to my ears. I just could hope that bk will pair well with it. 

I'm also planning upgrade my dap into one of Sony's signature but I guess from what you said it will not pair well with warmish source. 

Thanks! God bless!


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 8, 2017)

Ang Probinsyano said:


> My aune m1s is kinda neutral to my ears. I just could hope that bk will pair well with it.
> 
> I'm also planning upgrade my dap into one of Sony's signature but I guess from what you said it will not pair well with warmish source.
> 
> Thanks! God bless!


I don’t think it will pair with a warm source being so thick and full sounding already. But from what you say it should work with your source. Just be aware that the bk is extremely revealing of detail so you need high quality audio to make it work.

If you’re looking for an earbud to pair with a warm analog sounding source try the rose masya. It’s incredibly smooth, bright and more extended than shozy bk. Also has bigger soundstage slightly but less resolution slightly too.

If your aune m1 is neutral and smooth that would be perfect. BK needs some help smooth out it’s ultra detailed sound.

For a less extended treble, more neutral mids that are slightly less forward and thick, slightly more mid bass bump. Look at the cygnus. It’s admittedly less high resolution but it’s still got great detail and a fantastic sound signature that never gets fatiguing.

Cygnus pairs better with different sources due to its slightly thinner sound overall. Source doesn’t need to be as smooth because of roll off and lower res too which gives the illusion of a smoother sound because it’s not catching every detail like the bk is, atleast to my ears.

Technically the bk is superior though and better audio gear than my phone/laptop would pick that up easily. Plus they sound very similar overall in regards to the shozy house sound signature.


----------



## euge

Ang Probinsyano said:


> Thanks. Already read those reviews. Just need more impressions to convince me since this is a blind buy.



http://theheadphonelist.com/shozy-bk-stardust-earbud-review/


----------



## Ang Probinsyano

seanc6441 said:


> I don’t think it will pair with a warm source being so thick and full sounding already. But from what you say it should work with your source. Just be aware that the bk is extremely revealing of detail so you need high quality audio to make it work.
> 
> If you’re looking for an earbud to pair with a warm analog sounding source try the rose masya. It’s incredibly smooth, bright and more extended than shozy bk. Also has bigger soundstage slightly but less resolution slightly too.
> 
> ...


Don't like the white cable of cygnus from what I read it will oxidate after a few months.

The rose mojito is also on my list but the price difference is really big from the bk since I'm also saving for a dap.

Kinda afraid if I choose cygnus, my ears might get the itch to get its big brother bk.

Thanks for the help. Appreciated!


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 8, 2017)

Ang Probinsyano said:


> Don't like the white cable of cygnus from what I read it will oxidate after a few months.
> 
> The rose mojito is also on my list but the price difference is really big from the bk since I'm also saving for a dap.
> 
> ...


Ah I understand, yes my cygnus the special green cable version now 

I’d say go for the BK with your current source or the masya if you decide to buy a warmer bassier one.

Remember the BK is a more upfront sound with a medium soundstage and Masya is only upfront in vocals and bigger soundstage overall. Bk is full, detailed, richly textured and extended with good balance.

Masya is thinner, more delicate/sweet sound but also detailed, brighter and also extended with good balance (very slightly mid emphasised).


----------



## mochill

Ang Probinsyano said:


> Don't like the white cable of cygnus from what I read it will oxidate after a few months.
> 
> The rose mojito is also on my list but the price difference is really big from the bk since I'm also saving for a dap.
> 
> ...


Get the shozy stardust and the shozy alien plus dap as well


----------



## Ang Probinsyano

mochill said:


> Get the shozy stardust and the shozy alien plus dap as well


I'm getting the 2.5mm version of bk stardust and can't used it with alien plus. But, thanks!


----------



## mochill

If you want a new dap get the 3.5mm version plus alien plus


----------



## SweetEars

what are the earphones with a wide frequency range???


----------



## doggiemom

golov17 said:


> only Fischer Audio


Omg, I would love to get the Old Skool on ear headphones, but they are impossible to find!  (Sorry for the off topic, but I got passionate!)


----------



## Raketen

Ang Probinsyano said:


> I'm getting the 2.5mm version of bk stardust and can't used it with alien plus. But, thanks!



FYI You can use a BAL headphone with a SE adapter on any SE source, all ithe adapter does is bridge the seperate grounds like in a normal SE TRS plug.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi (Nov 9, 2017)

This might be ask a ton, Has there been any Reviews/UserFeedback on the K300 Samsara and Comparison to the Shozy BK?

Also How does the NICEHCK DIY Graphene Compare to the MoonDrop Nameless? 

If I go w/ the DIY Graphene is there another seller that offer the same Bud w/ Faster shipping(ePacket)? NICEHCK's ePacket Shipping is pretty High.


----------



## doggiemom

Danneq said:


> .
> 
> But the stiff cable (much worse than CAX Black & Zen Black) and also the high price of the earbuds makes me not use Red Dragon as much as I would like to.


howdy to you too!  Thank you for your post.  My at home buds are the CAX black.  They sound great, but the cable definitely limits what chores can be done.  I though abt the red dragon, but if say the cable is worse I need to reconsider.

For work, I’ve been using the k’s samsara almost exclusively.  I am them it’s a mojo or GO V2 infinity.


----------



## Ang Probinsyano

Raketen said:


> FYI You can use a BAL headphone with a SE adapter on any SE source, all ithe adapter does is bridge the seperate grounds like in a normal SE TRS plug.


Yep, I know that.

Thanks anyway.


----------



## neptunegarand

Sorry guys I'm a newbie but been browsing for a few years  just thought I'd recommend cosmic ears, My ce6ps are fantastic. Previously owners their ce2ps and prior to that a pair of Minerva mi performa pros. Anyone in the UK should consider them and I recommend Gisele flower in London, brilliant audiologist!


----------



## KookaBurrra

neptunegarand said:


> Sorry guys I'm a newbie but been browsing for a few years  just thought I'd recommend cosmic ears, My ce6ps are fantastic. Previously owners their ce2ps and prior to that a pair of Minerva mi performa pros. Anyone in the UK should consider them and I recommend Gisele flower in London, brilliant audiologist!


Ok... But wrong topic. Here : earbuds. Not IEM...


----------



## Danneq

doggiemom said:


> howdy to you too!  Thank you for your post.  My at home buds are the CAX black.  They sound great, but the cable definitely limits what chores can be done.  I though abt the red dragon, but if say the cable is worse I need to reconsider.
> 
> For work, I’ve been using the k’s samsara almost exclusively.  I am them it’s a mojo or GO V2 infinity.




From the y splitter up Herry has used the same cardas cable as CAX Black uses. From the plug to the y splitter some sort of exclusive (and expensive) cable that reminds me a bit of a fire hose is used. This makes them more heavy than CAX Black and from the Y splitter up you have that same stiffness as CAX Black.

But the sound is pure audio nirvana.

I would never bring them outside since I do not want to break them. If I didn't have that fear I could live with the cable issuses.

For outside use "ordinary" TOTL earbuds work just fine. And when I listen to Red Dragon I usally lie in the couch and just close my eyes and let the music sweep me away.

However, with a 3 year old and 2 month old kid I do not have that much time to listen to music at home...

EDIT: 

I borrowed a picture from the Cypherus audio homepage:


----------



## Ang Probinsyano

Any other suggestions with quality bass, more forward mids, not sibilant highs under 150$ that comes with 2.5mm jack?

Source will be Aune M1s. Thanks!


----------



## orderingrabbits

Seeing as there's a sale in two days, I thought I'd pick up some cheap chinese earbuds. Any warnings about my selections? Any suggestions for replacements?



Spoiler: my chosen earbuds


----------



## eaglesgift

chaiyuta said:


> @seanc6441 : Among badminton players, I like mixed double, Lee Yong Dae and Shin Seung Chan, most. I prefer watching double rather than single. Lin Dan is somewhat Barbarian. He has so hard hitting. While Lee Chong Wei.. looks weak guy though he is tough now. Another funny things likes~ drama of cable that is their accessories.. If you noticed you might see they are wearing necklace or bracelet named "Phiten"... If you are interested in those kind of thing, you might google it for details. Another skeptical things for you.
> 
> Back to earbuds topic. I would like to introduce one DIY repair&mod shop in Thailand named "B Rabbit Hifi", some guys here might know that they sell their original earbuds, Frigga series.. wooden housing made of Poplar wood.. For those who interest only TOTL gadgets should take a look. hehe


I gave up ordering anything from online vendors based here in Thailand. From guitars to electronic equipment, all the ones I've tried are too lazy to update stock availability on their websites. I really can't see the point of having a website advertising loads of products you haven't even got in stock - am I missing something?

Sorry for the mini rant but it really does annoy me.


----------



## SweetEars (Nov 9, 2017)

so far i only liked 2 earbuds in the last couple of years. The Meelectronics M9 ( IEM) and Emx 500. They are both similar except that the M9  is has a more pronounced sub bass and sparkle with midrange a bit recessed ( more V shape than emx500) and vertical soundstage  The EMX 500 has greater horizontal soundstage at all a levels  being an earbud.. IS there anything out there that will fit my preference?


----------



## RodRevenge

MidNighTempest said:


> This might be ask a ton, Has there been any Reviews/UserFeedback on the K300 Samsara and Comparison to the Shozy BK?
> 
> Also How does the NICEHCK DIY Graphene Compare to the MoonDrop Nameless?
> 
> If I go w/ the DIY Graphene is there another seller that offer the same Bud w/ Faster shipping(ePacket)? NICEHCK's ePacket Shipping is pretty High.



I asked the same question about de graphenes and the nameless like 2 days ago, seems like they are about the same level SQ wise with the only difference being that nameless has a smother sound while the graphenes are more "in your face", i leaning towarsd the nameless just because i like them more visually tbh.


----------



## neptunegarand

KookaBurrra said:


> Ok... But wrong topic. Here : earbuds. Not IEM...


Sorry my mistake!


----------



## waynes world

Fwiw, I like my Graphenes so much that I sleep with them 

Seriously though, I like to fall asleep listening to music, and I normally would use cheaper earbuds because they can take a lot of abuse after a night of  twisting and turning. I wouldn't have wanted to use the graphenes for this purpose because the cable seems kinda thin & frail to me, and I was sure that they wouldn't last a single night. But they sound so good, that I took a chance with them one night, and then another, and by this point I have been using them to fall asleep with for the last 6 weeks.

Now, my impression of the Graphenes is that they are damned tough!


----------



## ld100

waynes world said:


> Fwiw, I like my Graphenes so much that I sleep with them
> 
> Seriously though, I like to fall asleep listening to music, and I normally would use cheaper earbuds because they can take a lot of abuse after a night of  twisting and turning. I wouldn't have wanted to use the graphenes for this purpose because the cable seems kinda thin & frail to me, and I was sure that they wouldn't last a single night. But they sound so good, that I took a chance with them one night, and then another, and by this point I have been using them to fall asleep with for the last 6 weeks.
> 
> Now, my impression of the Graphenes is that they are damned tough!



What are Graphenes? Where are they sold?


----------



## j4100

waynes world said:


> Fwiw, I like my Graphenes so much that I sleep with them
> 
> Seriously though, I like to fall asleep listening to music, and I normally would use cheaper earbuds because they can take a lot of abuse after a night of  twisting and turning. I wouldn't have wanted to use the graphenes for this purpose because the cable seems kinda thin & frail to me, and I was sure that they wouldn't last a single night. But they sound so good, that I took a chance with them one night, and then another, and by this point I have been using them to fall asleep with for the last 6 weeks.
> 
> Now, my impression of the Graphenes is that they are damned tough!



That surprises me! I agree that the cable looks really frail and use my seahf 150 to fall asleep with, but won't worry so much about the Graphene cable now. Cheers


----------



## waynes world

ld100 said:


> What are Graphenes? Where are they sold?



They are great sounding and inexpensive.

NICEHCK DIY Graphene Earbud MX760

On sale on 11/11 for $22.43.


----------



## BrunoC

I have the Graphene and I sure love them.

Anyway, since I have the earbud disease, I wonder if is it worth to buy on 11.11 the following:

- Moondrop Nameless
- Tomahawk Mr.Z
- Qian 69


----------



## HungryPanda

@BrunoC you would really like all of those, welcome to the Head-Fi mentality


----------



## noknok23

Ang Probinsyano said:


> Any other suggestions with quality bass, more forward mids, not sibilant highs under 150$ that comes with 2.5mm jack?
> 
> Source will be Aune M1s. Thanks!


I use Campfred 1 with aune m1s and i think its amazing synergy, if you can grab a pair second hand (circa 130,00EUR), go for it. A friend told me Shozy BK is too bright with aune m1s - I really like Eking Master (circa 30,00EUR), a diy earbud from vietnam,very technical, detailed sound with can like bass.  pm me if you want the contact. unfortunately he doesnt do balanced so you have to do the job yourself. ---


----------



## Fabi

Danneq said:


> From the y splitter up Herry has used the same cardas cable as CAX Black uses. From the plug to the y splitter some sort of exclusive (and expensive) cable that reminds me a bit of a fire hose is used. This makes them more heavy than CAX Black and from the Y splitter up you have that same stiffness as CAX Black.
> 
> 
> 
> However, with a 3 year old and 2 month old kid I do not have that much time to listen to music at home...



Do CAX Black and Black Dragon come with a chin slider?
With Diomnes Lv2, the chin slider allows me to lock cables just under my chin, and this minimizes the risk that buds would fall off my ears when I move my head or yawn... Don't know about these two CAX..

By the way, congratulations on the baby


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 9, 2017)

BrunoC said:


> I have the Graphene and I sure love them.
> 
> Anyway, since I have the earbud disease, I wonder if is it worth to buy on 11.11 the following:
> 
> ...



Instead of he Tomahawk you could try one of the newer line of Toneking earbuds. Unless you want the tomahawk's specifically. They are very dividing earbuds. I had them and can say they are source dependant and if you don't find the right source they sound 'off' in the mid range. Abit cold metallic sounding, but with the right source (from memory a warmer source with some amping power) they can sound excellent for the price range. The needed to be EQ'ed also to get a nice balance.

I forget the names of the newer range, toneking unicorn is one but there are others.


----------



## SweetEars

what is the difference between the graphenes and emx500 in sound signature?


----------



## rkw

Fabi said:


> Do CAX Black and Black Dragon come with a chin slider?
> With Diomnes Lv2, the chin slider allows me to lock cables just under my chin, and this minimizes the risk that buds would fall off my ears when I move my head or yawn... Don't know about these two CAX..


Aren't those custom build to order? Request it when you order.


----------



## euge

SweetEars said:


> what is the difference between the graphenes and emx500 in sound signature?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1601#post-13800173


----------



## acap13

Graphene sounds more transparent, balanced overall. Tighter on the bass and more textured on strings from bass  to the upper mids region. EMX500 has great body on woodwinds instruments and boomier bass than Graphene. I think treble on Emx500 is sweeter than on Graphene and just as extended. One thing I find quite obvious, EMX tends to miss many informations on midrange region than on Graphene.


----------



## SweetEars

acap13 said:


> Graphene sounds more transparent, balanced overall. Tighter on the bass and more textured on strings from bass  to the upper mids region. EMX500 has great body on woodwinds instruments and boomier bass than Graphene. I think treble on Emx500 is sweeter than on Graphene and just as extended. One thing I find quite obvious, EMX tends to miss many informations on midrange region than on Graphene.



i love sparkle and sub bass, ariiness and depth, transparency   in a detail and adequate amounts with the mids neither forward  or recessed . any earbuds out there will fit my tastes?


----------



## acap13

SweetEars said:


> i love sparkle and sub bass, ariiness and depth, transparency   in a detail and adequate amounts with the mids neither forward  or recessed . any earbuds out there will fit my tastes?



I dont quite sure what will fit your taste actually. Maybe others can chime in and help you on that


----------



## BloodyPenguin

My photos of Ryo Chandra Lesmana's custom painted DIY Earbuds:





































--


----------



## Orac (Nov 10, 2017)

11th hour request for 11/11 sales:

I'm seeing the potential of earbuds incredibly late here, I've skimmed through approx the previous 20 pages of this thread and some of the reviews on the 'Everyday Listening' blog. What can you recommend that have the best imaging and are reasonably neutral? I want something for a variety of sources, variety of music genres and some PC gaming.

I would rather spend <$50 if there are good enough possibilities, but I'm not opposed to going up to something like the Shozy BK if I feel like anything else would be too much of a compromise. Based on the blog reviews I started eyeing up OurArt Ti7 and the MusicMaker Tomahawk, although some of you think newer upgrades on the Tomahawk might be better?

Thanks!


----------



## Danneq

BrunoC said:


> I have the Graphene and I sure love them.
> 
> Anyway, since I have the earbud disease, I wonder if is it worth to buy on 11.11 the following:
> 
> ...




If you mainly listen to metal Tomahawk is a solid choice. However, I find to to not work as well with other genres. There a sort of colder metallic tinge in the upper mids/treble and somehow that works very well with metal. The source might also play a part.

Haven't heard Qian69 and didn't care much for Qian39.

Moondrop Nameless would be my recommendation out of these three. At least if you listen to other genres than metal.




Fabi said:


> Do CAX Black and Black Dragon come with a chin slider?
> With Diomnes Lv2, the chin slider allows me to lock cables just under my chin, and this minimizes the risk that buds would fall off my ears when I move my head or yawn... Don't know about these two CAX..
> 
> By the way, congratulations on the baby



Thank's mate!

Like rkw replied, you can probably get chin sliders if you ask Herry when you order it. My pair of CAX Black was already made when I bought it. And the Red Dragon were second hand. But I do not find the lack of chin slider to be such a big problem. It would probably not help much with that cable. The Diomnes Lv2 cable is super flexible in comparison!   




Orac said:


> 11th hour request for 11/11 sales:
> 
> I'm seeing the potential of earbuds incredibly late here, I've skimmed through approx the previous 20 pages of this thread and some of the reviews on the 'Everyday Listening' blog. What can you recommend that have the best imaging and reasonably neutral? I want something for a variety of sources, variety of music genres and some PC gaming.
> 
> ...



As I wrote above, if you mainly listen to metal, Tomahawk is a solid recommendation. Otherwise the slightly colder upper mids/treble might annoy you with other music genres. Haven't heard OutArt Ti7.
YinCrow RW-777 is another option at around $40. It has got a slightly leaner sound than most modern earbuds, but a deep and wide soundstage and a neutral sound that I really like.


----------



## faser

seanc6441 said:


> Emx500 share the same big shell as monk/vido, the mx500 shell.
> 
> Graphene shell is the same size but slightly different shape so possibly more comfortable for some (I’ve heard it’s more comfortable anyway).
> 
> ...



I find  in Aliexpress a model of **** DIY EMX500 that has the same Shell as DIY PK2,  but increase the price to 12.50 euros (11-11)
I find DIY MX760 Graphene for 16.29 euros...from AK Store (No NICEHCK)
and I find NICEHCK DIY PK2 for 13.80 euros

What is the best purchase? Thanks.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 10, 2017)

faser said:


> I find  in Aliexpress a model of **** DIY EMX500 that has the same Shell as DIY PK2,  but increase the price to 12.50 euros (11-11)
> I find DIY MX760 Graphene for 16.29 euros...from AK Store (No NICEHCK)
> and I find NICEHCK DIY PK2 for 13.80 euros
> 
> What is the best purchase? Thanks.


Out of curiosity I'm buying the emx500 in pk2 shell, how can they fit 15mm driver in smaller shell? xD

I think it's  different driver so I'll try it.

As for your choice, emx500 for edm (atleast for mx500 shell version) , diy pk2 for rock/acoustic and graphene for all round use. Graphene gets the most praise out of the 3 so maybe choose that one.

I still have not received my graphene to give you my own opinion but everybody and their mothers are recommending them around here


----------



## eaglesgift

seanc6441 said:


> Out of curiosity I'm buying the emx500 in pk2 shell, how can they fit 15mm driver in smaller shell? xD
> 
> I think it's  different driver so I'll try it.
> 
> ...


My mother recommends going to bed early as an hour's sleep before midnight is worth two after.


----------



## euge (Nov 10, 2017)

Anyone here tried this? Any good?
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32819960514.html#autostay



seanc6441 said:


> Out of curiosity I'm buying the emx500 in pk2 shell, how can they fit 15mm driver in smaller shell? xD
> 
> I think it's  different driver so I'll try it.
> 
> ...



I think they might be diff, at least based on the 1-2 feedback on ali, they have less bass and are 32ohm, what bout the emxs-500


----------



## waynes world

It's 11/11 folks.Game on!


----------



## Orac (Nov 10, 2017)

Orac said:


> 11th hour request for 11/11 sales...
> ...What can you recommend that have the best imaging and are reasonably neutral? I want something for a variety of sources, variety of music genres and some PC gaming...





Danneq said:


> ...YinCrow RW-777 is another option at around $40. It has got a slightly leaner sound than most modern earbuds, but a deep and wide soundstage and a neutral sound that I really like.



Thanks Danneq. I will investigate further. Anyone else have any suggestions for neutral + good imaging?

Also, does anyone know if we can expect deals from Penon Audio? I see Shenzhen Audio have listed some products that will be discounted, but no earbuds and nothing there that I need.


----------



## groucho69

BloodyPenguin said:


> My photos of Ryo Chandra Lesmana's custom painted DIY Earbuds:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow. Do they sound as beautiful as they look?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

groucho69 said:


> Wow. Do they sound as beautiful as they look?


I need to find time to do a sound signature review.  Hopefully soon.


----------



## seanc6441

euge said:


> Anyone here tried this? Any good?
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32819960514.html#autostay
> 
> 
> ...



Might mean a more balanced tuning if bass isn’t overpowering the mids... I must try it! It might suit my preference more than regular  emx500


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 10, 2017)

Anyone who has never heard a shozy earbud but wants to get a taste of the shozy sound signature (minus deep bass and soundstage) should absolutely try out the DIY PK2 for $15 (cable 2,3).

Then if you like that flavour you can invest in a cygnus or stardust with confidence!

Oh btw update on cygnus and stardust, if you’re running them out of a mobile source it’s not worth upgrading to stardust over cygnus. The difference in resolution isn’t truly appreciated without a quality DAP or maybe one of the most high end audio mobiles.

Cygnus has a slight mid bass bump over the stardust, but with slightly less sub bass. Mids are thicker and slightly warmer on the stardust, more neutral on the cygnus. The treble is more emphasised on the cygnus but also more rolled off so it’s less revealing of harsh treble and doesn’t become sibilant or peaky. Honestly on mobile sources cygnus has a better sound of the treble region.

But I’ve managed to balance that out by switching from thin monk foam (on both cygnus and stardust) to a new foam for the stardust. Basically just a thin monk donut foam i had cut out from before. Now the treble is pretty equal in emphasis, the mids are slightly less thick and sound more natural and clearer to my ears.

Now both earbuds sound almost identical with the exception of a higher resolution in the stardust. I need to hear this thing out of a quality source, it’s incredible potential is being bottlenecked by my iphone.

Since I got the cygnus and stardust in the FS section for €33 and €120 respectively obviously I can say the cygnus is better value for money but at retail of €68 and €126 during the aliexpress sale it’s a question of your source than what’s better. If you’re planning on using it on the go with a phone like the iphone 6s save your money and get the cygnus. If you plan on feeding the stardust what it needs to shine, go for it!


----------



## j4100

Orac said:


> Also, does anyone know if we can expect deals from Penon Audio? I see Shenzhen Audio have listed some products that will be discounted, but no earbuds and nothing there that I need.



I was hoping Penon might have had more buds in the sale, but they only have a few on sale for 11.11.

I was going through what I might want and ended up with over $300 in the basket. Think I might be better spending that on a dac/amp or a TOTL bud rather than a handful of buds when I have three good ones already  

Willpower help me now!


----------



## seanc6441

j4100 said:


> I was hoping Penon might have had more buds in the sale, but they only have a few on sale for 11.11.
> 
> I was going through what I might want and ended up with over $300 in the basket. Think I might be better spending that on a dac/amp or a TOTL bud rather than a handful of buds when I have three good ones already
> 
> Willpower help me now!


When you only have two ears but $300 worth of budget earbuds... The struggle is real.


----------



## j4100

seanc6441 said:


> When you only have two ears but $300 worth of budget earbuds... The struggle is real.



Yeah  I'll  probably delete most of them (if I can)


----------



## chaiyuta (Nov 10, 2017)

OMG NiceHCK just released new MMCX earbuds, NiceHCK EBX. Moreover, its price is above Rose MASYA...


----------



## RodRevenge

seanc6441 said:


> Anyone who has never heard a shozy earbud but wants to get a taste of the shozy sound signature (minus deep bass and soundstage) should absolutely try out the DIY PK2 for $15 (cable 2,3).
> 
> Then if you like that flavour you can invest in a cygnus or stardust with confidence!
> 
> ...


Are you talking about the NiceHCK pk2 with the white cable?


----------



## seanc6441

RodRevenge said:


> Are you talking about the NiceHCK pk2 with the white cable?


My version is the brown/gold cable but I think the silver/white sounds the same.

Cable 1, the black rubberised one is a two part connected cable and someone on the reviews said it sounded darker.

Buy whichever you feel like I think the SQ doesn’t change especially in version 2/3.


----------



## waynes world

chaiyuta said:


> OMG NiceHCK just released new MMCX earbuds, NiceHCK EBX. Moreover, its price is above Rose MASYA...



Time for me to start staying away from this thread!


----------



## RodRevenge

Oh 


seanc6441 said:


> My version is the brown/gold cable but I think the silver/white sounds the same.
> 
> Cable 1, the black rubberised one is a two part connected cable and someone on the reviews said it sounded darker.
> 
> Buy whichever you feel like I think the SQ doesn’t change especially in version 2/3.



I will be getting the same as you then, love the look.


----------



## j4100

Out of interest, are there other sale days on Aliexpress like 11.11?


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 10, 2017)

RodRevenge said:


> Oh
> 
> 
> I will be getting the same as you then, love the look.



Yes the pk2 shell's and braided/twisted cables look very classy. Like that old school retro look.

Although I will never look at these cheaper twisted cables the same way again after beholding the stardusts braided shimering brown cable. Looks and feels amazing.

I swear they do some things like treble and timbre as good as the stardust, listening to strings is just wonderful. The EMX500 was too unnatural sounding coming from this earbud and I don't listen to EDM to appreciate the digital/synthetic sound even if it is better as bass extension and soundstage.

Anything natural like guitar and vocals some 10/10 and after I modded them the bass is balanced with the mids and high's.

A/Bing my modded pk2 with my stardust ($20vs120) if you weren't analyzing the sound and just enjoying the music you wouldn't feel disappointed having to swap between the two. It's only when you're looking out for the differences in soundstage/imaging/resolution and extension do you hear the difference. That's more praise for the pk2 than a sleight for the Stardust. They just both share the same signature now.

It's worth your money, burn them in though


----------



## rahmish

euge said:


> Anyone here tried this? Any good?
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32819960514.html#autostay
> 
> 
> ...


I tried them and they really good, good separation, punchy bass, sounds really well even on my Zishan Z1, so despite its high impedance not necessarily needs amp, but sounds better amped


----------



## KookaBurrra

What is the modd, exactly?


----------



## KookaBurrra

seanc6441 said:


> A/Bing my modded pk2 with my stardust ($20vs120) if you weren't analyzing the sound and just enjoying the music you wouldn't feel disappointed having to swap between the two. It's only when you're looking out for the differences in soundstage/imaging/resolution and extension do you hear the difference. That's more praise for the pk2 than a sleight for the Stardust. They just both share the same signature now.


What is the modd, exactly?


----------



## seanc6441

KookaBurrra said:


> What is the modd, exactly?



- Drill bass port of 1.5mm in the bottom in the gap between the grille and the stem of the housing (if was doing it again I'd drill 3 x .5mm or whatever the smallest drill bit size is to allow for the vent's always open for different ear shapes to avoid blocking the vent, but one did work for my ear luckily).

- Apply a tiny bit of paper filter over the bass port to fine tune the bass 'boom' and keep the sound bouncing through the housing like intended.

- Use some kid of epoxy or filler to semi block the back vent with tiny dabs on each side. This is a fix to an issue caused when drilling the bass port which sacrifices the punchy tight mid bass and low mids in return for a emphasised sub bass deep and deeper tonality. Semi blocking this back vents returns some of the punchiness and brings forward the mids high's. I thought this would cause a loss of airiness which this earbud doesn't have in abundance anyway, but it didn't seem to have any negative effect if you don't narrow the vent the sound remains the same in width and air. You apply the dabs left and right of the centre, dividing the 1 vent into 3 smaller vents.

If you're actually attempting this yourself I'll take pictures to demonstrate. I need to buy an epoxy or filler because currently I just tested it with blu tack which would be an ok temporary solution.


----------



## Orac (Nov 10, 2017)

nevermind, found what I need...


----------



## KookaBurrra

seanc6441 said:


> - Drill bass port of 1.5mm in the bottom in the gap between the grille and the stem of the housing (if was doing it again I'd drill 3 x .5mm or whatever the smallest drill bit size is to allow for the vent's always open for different ear shapes to avoid blocking the vent, but one did work for my ear luckily).
> 
> - Apply a tiny bit of paper filter over the bass port to fine tune the bass 'boom' and keep the sound bouncing through the housing like intended.
> 
> ...



Great !! Thanks for explanation.


----------



## letlive

Any recommendations for a Bud with Mic? I already have the EMX500 and Vido. Thanks!


----------



## chellity

I love lurking on all the earbud enthusiasm in this thread  I'm not so active here, but I always try to show people irl why earbuds are better.

So i'm trying to limit myself one earbud for 11/11.  I took a gamble on the clear mx760s soon after they came out and posted here long ago, so i've been enjoying those so much with a cayin n3 that pairs with it perfectly.  I also love k's 300 pro for home use, they are power hungry but I can see why some people on EA think these were used to make Blurs.  If you dont have some high impedance buds to try, don't sleep on k's 300 pro.

I also have a pk2/vido, so I guess the one earbud archetype im missing is a bassy mx500?  I'm guessing the emxs-500 is too new to know anything about?  I think i'll have to try this one blindly.

But look what Jim just listed on his store: clear graphenes with the different cables, like the emx500 cable!  and one with a MIC!  I might have to get the one with a mic later.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...234.html?spm=2114.12010611.0.0.4069512bbihPQF


----------



## waynes world

chellity said:


> But look what Jim just listed on his store: clear graphenes with the different cables, like the emx500 cable!  and one with a MIC!  I might have to get the one with a mic later.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...234.html?spm=2114.12010611.0.0.4069512bbihPQF



Whoa! Sweet:


----------



## miroslav

It is close to midnight over here and I'm blasting Motorhead's take on Cat Scratch Fever through my Vido while trying to make a decision on my 1111 move.

I like Vidos but only after extensive sound tweaking in order to tame that ridiculous amount of not so tight bass and clear up things in the middle and top end. They're banging quite all right now, although they will never ever completely lose that bouncy bass kick. These buds want to party all the time.

I think I'll go with VE Monk Plus for more neutral sound and Headroom MS16 for something completely different (according to what I read about them).  I'll leave Graphene or pk2 for another round because joy is to travel not to arrive. 

On a side note  - We had our little hi-fi show last weekend and I had a chance to try full size wallet killers such as Senn HD800s, HD650, HD600, Focal Elear and Denon AH-D7200 (took some photos here) and  honestly I didn't really like any of them. I have no Idea what went wrong, they probably weren't broken in properly. Blessed are the people who make nice earbuds that cost peanuts.


----------



## RodRevenge

waynes world said:


> Whoa! Sweet:


The Blue one looks sweet i think im buying it


----------



## vladstef

waynes world said:


> Whoa! Sweet:



They are ready to milk this cow but it's a good product and it's justified. Same thing is happening with EMX500, a billion different versions. I guess quality products managed to become mainstream for once, we need more of that.


----------



## SweetEars

one thing is for sure, the emx 500 and graphene both outdo usual earbuds that are offered by established brands like Phillips sony at the same price


----------



## HungryPanda

SweetEars said:


> one thing is for sure, the emx 500 and graphene both outdo usual earbuds that are offered by established brands like Phillips sony at the same price



Amen to that, and let it long continue


----------



## SweetEars

seanc6441 said:


> - Drill bass port of 1.5mm in the bottom in the gap between the grille and the stem of the housing (if was doing it again I'd drill 3 x .5mm or whatever the smallest drill bit size is to allow for the vent's always open for different ear shapes to avoid blocking the vent, but one did work for my ear luckily).
> 
> - Apply a tiny bit of paper filter over the bass port to fine tune the bass 'boom' and keep the sound bouncing through the housing like intended.
> 
> ...




I did a  mod with the Ve monks , not sure if its the same, but i used scotch tape on the outside  without drilling or removing anything to cover...the result is that the sound stage improved with better layering and tamed mids.

from another TOPIC threAD AT HEADFI . I JUST PASTED SCOTCH TAPE ON THE OUTSIDE INSTEAD OF USING BLU TACK FROM THE INSIDE. BOTH SIDES OF THE GREEN U SEE IN THIS PIC


----------



## euge

chellity said:


> I love lurking on all the earbud enthusiasm in this thread  I'm not so active here, but I always try to show people irl why earbuds are better.
> 
> So i'm trying to limit myself one earbud for 11/11.  I took a gamble on the clear mx760s soon after they came out and posted here long ago, so i've been enjoying those so much with a cayin n3 that pairs with it perfectly.  I also love k's 300 pro for home use, they are power hungry but I can see why some people on EA think these were used to make Blurs.  If you dont have some high impedance buds to try, don't sleep on k's 300 pro.
> 
> ...



God damn it now I'll have to add another 2 to the cart. The new graphene looks to have a way better build, the frequency response range is diff too


----------



## SweetEars

euge said:


> God damn it now I'll have to add another 2 to the cart. The new graphene looks to have a way better build, the frequency response range is diff too



frequency rang is different but the cables are plastic? how will this affect the sound quality? the emx500 have a braided cable


----------



## waynes world (Nov 10, 2017)

HungryPanda said:


> Ourart Ti7 are over ear mmcx





waynes world said:


> Thanks! You never lead me astray, so I'll check them out
> 
> I'll ask you more about them in the earbuds thread.



I see that you have them. How do you like them?

Edit: reading the reviews now. Seems pretty good. Good if you're in a mid-centric frame of mind!


----------



## waynes world

SweetEars said:


> I did a  mod with the Ve monks , not sure if its the same, but i used scotch tape on the outside  without drilling or removing anything to cover...the result is that the sound stage improved with better layering and tamed mids.
> 
> from another TOPIC threAD AT HEADFI . I JUST PASTED SCOTCH TAPE ON THE OUTSIDE INSTEAD OF USING BLU TACK FROM THE INSIDE. BOTH SIDES OF THE GREEN U SEE IN THIS PIC



That looks like the glorious original Monk. You didn't mess with that, did you?


----------



## seanc6441

SweetEars said:


> I did a  mod with the Ve monks , not sure if its the same, but i used scotch tape on the outside  without drilling or removing anything to cover...the result is that the sound stage improved with better layering and tamed mids.
> 
> from another TOPIC threAD AT HEADFI . I JUST PASTED SCOTCH TAPE ON THE OUTSIDE INSTEAD OF USING BLU TACK FROM THE INSIDE. BOTH SIDES OF THE GREEN U SEE IN THIS PIC



Nice the original monks. I've heard it works better with that version than the new. I was kind of forced to drill a hole because the pk shell is onl vented at the back and I needed a bottom port like you see on some other earbuds to help sub bass. Usually the back ports affect more of the airiness vs punchiness of the sound as the driver is directly opposite. The bottom port have a slighty more subtle effect in bass quantity.


----------



## SweetEars

well the picture is not mine, its just for illustration  .. i just used scotch tape from the outside to tape up the holes as state in the picture


----------



## SweetEars

anyone ordered the new graphene ? sounds enticing....


----------



## euge (Nov 10, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> frequency rang is different but the cables are plastic? how will this affect the sound quality? the emx500 have a braided cable



I think the actual cable material will only affect sq, not how its put together.
It looks similar to the panda pk2s cable that I have and its one of my favourite cable, its soft and smooth, definitely doesn't look as cool as the braided one but it handles much better.

edit: there's also a braided cable option on that new graphene, but I don't like how it looks like its twisting and curling



SweetEars said:


> anyone ordered the new graphene ? sounds enticing....



it's in my cart for tonight!


----------



## SweetEars

euge said:


> I think the actual cable material will only affect sq, not how its put together.
> It looks similar to the panda pk2s cable that I have and its one of my favourite cable, its soft and smooth, definitely doesn't look as cool as the braided one but it handles much better.
> 
> edit: there's also a braided cable option on that new graphene, but I don't like how it looks like its twisting and curling
> ...



the transparent one , isnt it also curling inside ? it looks like there is braided cable inside a transparent plastic housing. but is the cable copper?


----------



## MLTKSHHBT

acap13 said:


> That was hilarious indeed. Dont mean to derail the old issue here but the attitude to keep comparing and stress out how comparable his Blur to the $20 K300( which he was actually modded with other pricier cable) made me nauseated. Unfortunately, that is only one part of the equation. Theres another one person PM'ed me his finding about Blur which I found to be as fishy as the first guy did. I smell tuna around. Hope its not another political agenda and solely based on their opinion. Therefore, brought me to my initial question above.


Anyone has any info about this blur maker? It's kind of weird he's disappeared completely in AE fb, even my fb messenger conversation with him was blocked!(I bought a blur silver from him).


----------



## euge

SweetEars said:


> the transparent one , isnt it also curling inside ? it looks like there is braided cable inside a transparent plastic housing. but is the cable copper?



I think they're all just copper, maybe silver plated. Not sure, or just silver colour painted over lol

If you look at all the silver cables sold separately, they cost 3-4 times the price of the graphene.


----------



## chaiyuta

MLTKSHHBT said:


> Anyone has any info about this blur maker? It's kind of weird he's disappeared completely in AE fb, even my fb messenger conversation with him was blocked!(I bought a blur silver from him).


It sounds weird. Previously I saw him post that he was in Western countries (look like he is travelling) then come back and post his own 64Ohm earbuds pictures. Could you try to add him as friend in Facebook?


----------



## intdev

Hello,

A couple of years ago, I started looking for some portable headphones. On that quest, I found the VE Monks and ordered one to try. These were easily the best earbuds I had ever tried, and I was over the moon considering the price I paid for them. I immediately ordered 4 more. I use them very roughly. I am down to my last pair now (broke 4 of them, lost 1).

Before ordering more of these, I started researching about other earbuds and found out this thread and many others. I was surprised to find that the monks are considered bottom tiers! I have read pretty much this entire thread I am looking for some help, especially considering the 11.11 sale! Let me start by giving some background.

*Music:* I listen to pretty much every genre. Classic rock, alternative, indie, hip hop, electronic, country, bollywood. Anything and everything except death metal/screaming type of music. So I am looking for versatile, all rounder earbuds.

*Source: *Most of the time, just my android phone.

*Budget:* $50

After reading this thread and many others, I have sort of narrowed it down to buying EMX500 and one other pair.

Two pairs I have shortlisted are:

1) NICEHCK DIY Graphene
2) Boarseman MX98s

Which one do you think will suit my needs better? Are there any other ones that you guys think I should consider?


----------



## HungryPanda

Seahf awk-f32t


----------



## SweetEars

euge said:


> I think they're all just copper, maybe silver plated. Not sure, or just silver colour painted over lol
> 
> If you look at all the silver cables sold separately, they cost 3-4 times the price of the graphene.


which one should i order?  the last 2 seems to be a dollar more expensive.


----------



## euge

SweetEars said:


> which one should i order?  the last 2 seems to be a dollar more expensive.



I doubt they sound any diff from each other, the last one has mic, I chose the transparent silver cause I like the thicker more solid looking plug.


----------



## SweetEars

euge said:


> I doubt they sound any diff from each other, the last one has mic, I chose the transparent silver cause I like the thicker more solid looking plug.


 the last 3 versions have   their  wires enclosed in plastic?


----------



## euge

SweetEars said:


> the last 3 versions have   their  wires enclosed in plastic?



yeah so does the braided one... I think, you wouldn't leave wires exposed


----------



## SweetEars

euge said:


> yeah so does the braided one... I think, you wouldn't leave wires exposed


sorry i dont understand. so all the versions  have  wires are braided but some of them are enclosed in plastic?


----------



## euge

SweetEars said:


> sorry i dont understand. so all the versions  have  wires are braided but some of them are enclosed in plastic?



here are some wire examples lol point is they all sound the same pick one u think looks good
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1v3HEGpXXXXchXFXXq6xXFXXXR/201172055/HTB1v3HEGpXXXXchXFXXq6xXFXXXR.jpg
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...y-repair-line-upgrade/323026_32289968991.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...er-silver-plated-wire/323026_32723976017.html


----------



## SweetEars

i just ordered the blue graphene mx760...


----------



## chaiyuta

eaglesgift said:


> I gave up ordering anything from online vendors based here in Thailand. From guitars to electronic equipment, all the ones I've tried are too lazy to update stock availability on their websites. I really can't see the point of having a website advertising loads of products you haven't even got in stock - am I missing something?
> 
> Sorry for the mini rant but it really does annoy me.



Not sure I can answer in the right direction of your question. Mostly DIY don't have a big lot of stocks not only DIY products in Thailand but also Indonesia's, Singapore's, etc. I tried to introduce everyone here that in my country there are still some interesting DIY earbuds which some people here might be interested. (and some guys here already purchased with satisfaction e.g. BDE, BLE, V-Master, etc.)Apart from DIY earbuds product, I have no idea about your shopping experience at Thailand though they're just case by case. Otherwise, you are going to make national criticism, aren't you?


----------



## Orac

j4100 said:


> I was hoping Penon might have had more buds in the sale...


I found their AliExpress store, weirdly they seem to have the 11:11 page in Spanish which really screws up browsing, but there isn't anything there I will buy today. I don't see any DAPs at compelling sale prices either, and there aren't good tablets on sale for the old folk. The sale is a bit of a disappointment overall.

Unless I stumble onto something I definitely want right now I'll have to wait and see what happens during the Black Friday sales and maybe in the new year. 



j4100 said:


> ...ended up with over $300 in the basket... ...Willpower help me now!


Just remember that a deal offer is only a bargain if it's something that you actually do want. If you're buying things you don't need/want then you're just being suckered into sale fever.


----------



## euge

SweetEars said:


> i just ordered the blue graphene mx760...



why the blue one


----------



## SweetEars

the new niceHCK graphene maybe the has more sub bass i presume due to the frequency range of 10hz??


----------



## SweetEars

euge said:


> why the blue one



looks nicer???.......


----------



## euge

euge said:


> why the blue one



lol just winding you up


----------



## jogawag (Nov 11, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> i just ordered the blue graphene mx760...


You just asked others a lot of questions, and you did not add "like" to others' last answer. That is a rude act.

Perhaps you would have wanted to know which cable is best performing, *but that is your job, not the work of the person (euge) who answered the question*.

In this case, "you" should ask the shop about which cable has the best performance, and "you" should have been to told the contents of the answer to everyone.
That way, this thread will be useful to everyone.


----------



## chaiyuta

@SweetEars : As a cable believer, I might recommend Mr. SweetEars to get the cheapest option and do re-cable with after market DIY cables from DHC or Toxic Cable, or if you are capable to buy somethings from Japan.. then go to Oyaide store. (If you have enough budget...) Please don't think that you add up just 2-5$, you will get the super sonic SQ improvement by those cable option...IMHO


----------



## euge

jogawag said:


> You just asked others a lot of questions, and you did not add "like" to others' last answer. That is a rude act.
> 
> Perhaps you would have wanted to know which cable is best performing, *but that is your job, not the work of the person (euge) who answered the question*.
> 
> ...



na its all good lol


----------



## chaiyuta

@jogawag : Your word is so powerful as enough as I have to 'Like' on your comment. lol


----------



## Saoshyant

Frankly, if you have an issue with someone you should be sending a private message rather than posting here for all to see.


----------



## eaglesgift

chaiyuta said:


> Not sure I can answer in the right direction of your question. Mostly DIY don't have a big lot of stocks not only DIY products in Thailand but also Indonesia's, Singapore's, etc. I tried to introduce everyone here that in my country there are still some interesting DIY earbuds which some people here might be interested. (and some guys here already purchased with satisfaction e.g. BDE, BLE, V-Master, etc.)Apart from DIY earbuds product, I have no idea about your shopping experience at Thailand though they're just case by case. Otherwise, you are going to make national criticism, aren't you?


I haven't tried every shop in Thailand so it's not really a national criticism, but every online store in Thailand that I have tried does not bother to update their websites. I was hoping you could tell me if it was a national problem actually. - that's why I made my post.

A bit off topic but I did ask CT Music (musical instrument shop) in Bangkok why they never updated their website and they told me they were 'not like a big shop in England' and don't have the time. However, they do have time to take pointless photographs of every single customer who buys something in their shop and post them on Facebook so I can only put it down to laziness or poor organisational skills in their case.


----------



## jogawag (Nov 11, 2017)

Saoshyant said:


> Frankly, if you have an issue with someone you should be sending a private message rather than posting here for all to see.


This person had a past that repeatedly asked questions to me.
Too many questions continued, so I switched to a private message on the way.

I think that there are many new people who only ask many questions recently, so I may have wrote it strongly.

I'm sorry.


----------



## chaiyuta

eaglesgift said:


> I haven't tried every shop in Thailand so it's not really a national criticism, but every online store in Thailand that I have tried does not bother to update their websites. I was hoping you could tell me if it was a national problem actually. - that's why I made my post.
> 
> A bit off topic but I did ask CT Music (musical instrument shop) in Bangkok why they never updated their website and they told me they were 'not like a big shop in England' and don't have the time. However, they do have time to take pointless photographs of every single customer who buys something in their shop and post them on Facebook so I can only put it down to laziness or poor organisational skills in their case.



Mostly I buy electronics gadgets via Lazada (with official store or distributor) or Powerbuy and I rarely found problems about stock update. My recommend is please rely on big store. I ever bought speaker and other accessories (pedal) via ProPlugin. Also work well without problem. In case of musical instrument shop, I quite understand you immediately. The Online shop try to keep their price lower than retail shop (in Department Stores). I've ever contact one (can't remember the website) for buying an electric piano but at the end I change my mind due to seller manner, and no stock availability (have to pre-order). I recommend you go to get via actual retail shops likes at Siam paragon or Central World better.


----------



## j4100

Orac said:


> Just remember that a deal offer is only a bargain if it's something that you actually do want. If you're buying things you don't need/want then you're just being suckered into sale fever.



So true. I bought a good bud I wanted to try and a couple of cheap budget ones that look interesting. Little point in buying the pk2 level ones I had added to my cart, so deleted all of those. As you say, there are other times to buy what you really want, rather than going mad just because it's a sale.

I'm hoping black Friday might have good prices on a dac/amp or dap.


----------



## eaglesgift (Nov 11, 2017)

chaiyuta said:


> Mostly I buy electronics gadgets via Lazada (with official store or distributor) or Powerbuy and I rarely found problems about stock update. My recommend is please rely on big store. I ever bought speaker and other accessories (pedal) via ProPlugin. Also work well without problem. In case of musical instrument shop, I quite understand you immediately. The Online shop try to keep their price lower than retail shop (in Department Stores). I've ever contact one (can't remember the website) for buying an electric piano but at the end I change my mind due to seller manner, and no stock availability (have to pre-order). I recommend you go to get via actual retail shops likes at Siam paragon or Central World better.


OK, thanks very much for your advice (and the links). I've heard of ProPlugin - I was looking at a Squier CVC Telecaster on there a few months ago.


----------



## faser (Nov 11, 2017)

deleted


----------



## Tomasz2D

Remember? I said I will be back on 11.11. and here I am again. Good Morning/Afternoon/Evening gentlemen. Any thoughts on Moondrop Liebesleid?


----------



## j4100

Tomasz2D said:


> Remember? I said I will be back on 11.11. and here I am again. Good Morning/Afternoon/Evening gentlemen. Any thoughts on Moondrop Liebesleid?


 There are a couple of reviews on here, but I find searching on my phone to be a real pain and cannot find them for you. I was tempted to order them today.


----------



## acap13

j4100 said:


> There are a couple of reviews on here, but I find searching on my phone to be a real pain and cannot find them for you. I was tempted to order them today.



Sorry if I sway you to another topic, but I see you have MX760 Graphene and Shozy BK. I would like to know the difference between them if I missed your impression somewhere here before. If you dont mind.


----------



## Orac (Nov 11, 2017)

jogawag said:


> ...I think that there are many new people who only ask many questions recently, so I may have wrote it strongly.
> 
> I'm sorry.



We all lose patience sometimes, it happens. No serious harm done here but allow me me to give you a different perspective.

Head-Fi has a certain reputation you see referenced on reddit and other forums, and your post is just one small example of how Head-Fi lives up to its' reputation. Compared to other tech/product forums it's very elitist, insular and quite hostile to new members with questions, many of which just seem to go unanswered.

Thanks to the success of other social media, most forums have suffered compared to their heyday. The loss of users to other media is only increased with every hostile response, every ignored question only serves to drive more people away.

Forums thrive when there is high traffic from regulars, casual users and newbies. Once the the traffic falls below the critical mass, conversation grinds to a halt and the forum dies. I used Head-Fi a long time ago seeking information and as I remember, it used to be much more lively and positive. Now I wonder what it will be like in a few years time.

Remember that the overwhelming majority of us do not have the money and/or inclination to buy multiple headphones & DAPs to compare for themselves. This is not judgemental about this hobby, everyone is entitled to spend their own time and money however they see fit, but most of us new and low post count users probably just want to avoid being ripped off and get the the best, most suitable product they can afford.

Maybe you have to help 20, 50 or 100 people before one of them fully embraces the hobby and starts reviewing many products, but it should be worth the effort for community as a whole to draw people in as much as possible.



jogawag said:


> you did not add "like" to others' last answer. That is a rude act.



You may feel that way, but the flip side is some people hate 'likes.' Value is in the discussion and words written, helping people for genuine community spirit, rather than a contest to win the most arbitrary internet points.

I guess it can be useful to click a like to acknowledge a reply, but I appreciate a personal response of thanks. I would much prefer there not to be a count on the number of likes. But whatever the method of acknowledgement, most of us are busy at work, looking after children etc. and comments can get overlooked. That doesn't mean they intended a personal slight or rudeness.



jogawag said:


> In this case, "you" should ask the shop about which cable has the best performance, and "you" should have been to told the contents of the answer to everyone.


On this point, I would just say the words of unknown sales persons are worth little. If only we could trust manufacturers and sellers were always truthful and honest, but we are all here to seek the experience of real customers.

On a last note, if someone is getting too pushy or annoying, remember the ignore list can be useful. You don't have to make it permanent, you can just add a name until the frustration passes.


----------



## j4100

acap13 said:


> Sorry if I sway you to another topic, but I see you have MX760 Graphene and Shozy BK. I would like to know the difference between them if I missed your impression somewhere here before. If you dont mind.


Sorry, I only got them recently and been burning them in.  Haven't really done much listening to the Graphene because of this. BK is a great bud though. I'm away from home and only have BK with me.


----------



## acap13

j4100 said:


> Sorry, I only got them recently and been burning them in.  Haven't really done much listening to the Graphene because of this. BK is a great bud though. I'm away from home and only have BK with me.



Its alright. Looking forwards to hearing your impression on them in the future.


----------



## lyrean (Nov 11, 2017)

The new DIY Graphenes has a frequency range of 10-22000Hz, while in the older one it's 15-30000Hz. It is certainly wider in the older one. The cable is also covered with plastic in the newer one.

This makes me think that the newer Graphenes are a cheaper/alternative model with a graphene driver. Tonally these two may be totally different. The newer one may have a bit more sub bass as someone mentioned.


----------



## jogawag (Nov 11, 2017)

Orac said:


> We all lose patience sometimes, it happens. No serious harm done here but allow me me to give you a different perspective.
> 
> Head-Fi has a certain reputation you see referenced on reddit and other forums, and your post is just one small example of how Head-Fi lives up to its' reputation. Compared to other tech/product forums it's very elitist, insular and quite hostile to new members with questions, many of which just seem to go unanswered.
> 
> ...



I feel there is a slight gap between your general theory and the problem of excessive repetition of questions of this time (and to me).
However, my remarks were too emotional.

I am sorry again.


----------



## damex (Nov 11, 2017)

so now i have:
Shozy Cygnus
VE Monk/Monk Plus
VE Zen 2.0
previously got:
K's 300 Samsara
K's 600

is there a recommendations of what else to get from 11.11?
i think about ty hi-z. HP-650 aka 650 ohm version? i heard good things about ty hi-z hp150s and ty hi-z f300m. is they any good?
i would like to just get nice stuff for a bit cheaper price this time (just to evaluate is enough. i would spend many time with that earbuds) 

let's ignore existence of Liebesleid for now 

maybe Yinman 600ohm 2.0 ?


----------



## intdev

HungryPanda said:


> Seahf awk-f32t



Thanks. How would you say they differ from both the niceHCK graphene and the Boarseman mx98s?


----------



## Orac

jogawag said:


> the problem of excessive repetition of questions of this time (and to me)


There should be enough people here to share the load, it's OK to say "_I don't know about that item, maybe someone else who does know will be able to answer._" When you've already tried to help there is no need to feel bad if you can't do more


----------



## silverfishla

I think a bud that people overlook are the Edifier buds.  I think they are just as good as the MX500 but more energetic.  Sort of a combination of the sound of the MX500 and the Graphene.  A very wide and spacious soundstage and makes for a great bud for modding for balanced output.  Just my take, as I am a fan of these buds and see that they have a pretty good discount for 11.11.  I am not schilling for them at all.


----------



## HungryPanda

intdev said:


> Thanks. How would you say they differ from both the niceHCK graphene and the Boarseman mx98s?



The seahf has a warmer and fuller sound whereas the graphene is tighter. I have never listened to the Boaresman


----------



## intdev

Thanks! Which two would you say I should buy out of: 1) Seahf awk-f32t 2) niceHCK Graphene and 3) EMX500  

Also, anyone else here can compare Boarseman mx98s with the ones above?


----------



## HungryPanda (Nov 11, 2017)

intdev said:


> Thanks! Which two would you say I should buy out of: 1) Seahf awk-f32t 2) niceHCK Graphene and 3) EMX500



I would recommend the seahf and the graphene


----------



## mbwilson111

silverfishla said:


> I think a bud that people overlook are the Edifier buds.



Which Edifier?  I have considered them a few times.  Is the fit smaller than that of a Monk?  I am having problems with buds with Monk style shells.


----------



## dr.karaan

KookaBurrra said:


> After a long quest, I find my "end-game" earbud : Shozy BK. Liquid, Natural, Full Sound (like a full-size headphone) : incredible earbud! I'm in love!!


But shozy bk is very much source dependent. And sound varies from source to source, whats ur take?


----------



## KookaBurrra (Nov 11, 2017)

dr.karaan said:


> But shozy bk is very much source dependent. And sound varies from source to source, whats ur take?


I have 3 sources (Shozy Alien + Onkyo DP-X1 + Cowon Plenue 1) and Shozy BK sound great on all... And not very different from 3. Small preference for it with the Plenue 1 signature, I agree. For example I prefer my TY hi-Z HP-650 with my Onkyo DP-X1. But it's just a synergy - and a DAP signature -  preference!

Why you talk about "source dependant" for it? It's not the case, no more than the others earbuds I own / I have listen.


----------



## damex

damex said:


> so now i have:
> Shozy Cygnus
> VE Monk/Monk Plus
> VE Zen 2.0
> ...


got ty hi-z 650 and seahf awk-f650s.
is yinman 600 any good ?  i have seen mentions on this thread... can't find review for them tho ;p


----------



## Orac

KookaBurrra said:


> Cowon Plenue 1) and Shozy BK sound great


Well that's great to know, I'm waiting to find out if the Plenue J is a good product and the Shozy BK is on my shortlist.


----------



## seanc6441

dr.karaan said:


> But shozy bk is very much source dependent. And sound varies from source to source, whats ur take?


Shozy BK drives easily on my iphone and sounds great. I’m sure it will improve as you improve the source but I do think it is easy to drive.

I find that it’s so thick in sound that I needed to use monk thin foams cut into donut to make it more airy. Great earbuds though, so are the cygnus btw.


----------



## Trzystatrzy

Hi,
Neutral earbuds with big and deep soundstage for ambient, movie scores and classical music? Soundmagic EP30 are too thin and Monk+ are too warm


----------



## silverfishla

mbwilson111 said:


> Which Edifier?  I have considered them a few times.  Is the fit smaller than that of a Monk?  I am having problems with buds with Monk style shells.


The H180 has a head size similar to monk, but the body is slimmer and so is the neck part, which makes it easier to angle around in the ear.  The H185 is smaller with a different angled design.  The H190 looks to be inbetween, but I can't confirm on this one, because I haven't received that one yet.


----------



## Saoshyant

Ordered the new NiceHCK Graphene with mic as it's only running $16, also ordered the newer **** PT15 as I'm curious about the sound sig change.


----------



## mbwilson111

silverfishla said:


> The H180 has a head size similar to monk, but the body is slimmer and so is the neck part, which makes it easier to angle around in the ear.  The H185 is smaller with a different angled design.  The H190 looks to be inbetween, but I can't confirm on this one, because I haven't received that one yet.



Thanks for replying.
Which do you like best sound-wise?


----------



## doggiemom

Saoshyant said:


> Ordered the new NiceHCK Graphene with mic as it's only running $16, also ordered the newer **** PT15 as I'm curious about the sound sig change.


Let us know how the Senfers are.  I was underwhelmed with the original.


----------



## Saoshyant

doggiemom said:


> Let us know how the Senfers are.  I was underwhelmed with the original.



The original is for treble-heads, and as I'm anything but I can sympathize.  It does have a spectacular treble section for the cost, and reports state that the new one has a non-anemic bass, which I'm really looking forward to.  Still unsure if I need a new Svara in hopes for a more phone-friendly version.


----------



## j4100

I decided to go for the **** was well, since it's the only bud I'll have with an mmcx cable (so far). Easy to replace the cable if damaged or upgrade required.


----------



## springbay (Nov 11, 2017)

intdev said:


> Thanks! Which two would you say I should buy out of: 1) Seahf awk-f32t 2) niceHCK Graphene and 3) EMX500
> 
> Also, anyone else here can compare Boarseman mx98s with the ones above?



Hi answering here instead of the DM.
Sorry, I can never ever recommend the Graphenes. They are badly tuned to my ears. Only interesting to have for reference.
If you had asked me a year ago I would had recommended the MX98s, but now there are better buds at a cheaper price - read NICEHCK MX500/NICEHCK PK1.

If someone has limited funds and I would recommend an order depending on when a pair of buds get trumped by a more expensive pair:
1. NICEHCK Vido
2. NICEHCK MX500/NICEHCK PK1

Now you need to get an amp or a half decent DAP with some power (or move directly to number 6).
Get a Walnut V2 or a Zishan Z1 or even better a JAZZ R7.0, The JAZZ R7.0 paired with a rockboxed XDuoo X3 is a sweet stack.

3. K's Earphone K300 Pro or if you can still find a Seahf Smart 1.0
4. K's Earphone 500
5. K's Earphone K300 Samsara / K's Earphone K600
6. Cypherus Audio CampFred 2. Not necessarily better than the K-buds at no 5, but don't need an amp.

And if you don't want to buy NICEHCK buds, then go Seahf in stage 1 and 2, and avoid TY Hi-Z if you can get Seahf. I can recommend all my Seahf buds except Seahf LD-3.0 400. I think that model is still sold under the new naming Seahf AWK-400. So avoid that particular model since it is on par with the TY Hi-Z line.


----------



## Saoshyant

springbay said:


> Hi answering here instead of the DM.
> Sorry, I can never ever recommend the Graphenes. They are badly tuned to my ears. Only interesting to have for reference.
> If you had asked me a year ago I would had recommended the MX98s, but now there are better buds at a cheaper price - read NICEHCK MX500/NICEHCK PK1.
> 
> ...



You may want to give what sound sig you prefer as a reference point.  Going by Vido & Smart 1.0 I'm assuming you enjoy bass.


----------



## silverfishla

mbwilson111 said:


> Thanks for replying.
> Which do you like best sound-wise?


I only have the H180 and H185 and honestly, they sound almost exactly alike.  H180 might have a slight edge on spaciousness (probably due to shell design).  I'm curious about the H190 because from their description, it's their pro model.  I got those for 11.11 on a nice discount today.


----------



## springbay

Saoshyant said:


> You may want to give what sound sig you prefer as a reference point.  Going by Vido & Smart 1.0 I'm assuming you enjoy bass.



My sound preference should be petty obvious by now. Pay attention please! 

The user that I answered sent a DM to me asking for advice about the buds so I suppose the user already knew.

To avoid misunderstanding. I enjoy bass quality, not bass quantity. Hence Seahf over TI Hi-Z every time. Vido because they are the cheapest you can get, that are all around decent.


----------



## Saoshyant

Just saying for public recommendations, a reference point of such nature is more helpful than you think.  If anything, someone new to the thread might be reading for the first time and it could prove useful.


----------



## mbwilson111

silverfishla said:


> I only have the H180 and H185 and honestly, they sound almost exactly alike.  H180 might have a slight edge on sspaciousness (probably due to shell design).  I'm curious about the H190 because from their description, it's their pro model.  I got those for 11.11 on a nice discount today.



I do like the look of that H190.  Tempted to have Amazon bring me one tomorrow... have not found any info about the sound.


----------



## Saoshyant

mbwilson111 said:


> I do like the look of that H190.  Tempted to have Amazon bring me one tomorrow... have not found any info about the sound.



Prefer the H185 look myself, but I don't remember if I've bought it or not...  I don't think so, but sometimes it's hard to keep track.  I'll have to dig through the drawers to see.


----------



## Danneq

Tomasz2D said:


> Remember? I said I will be back on 11.11. and here I am again. Good Morning/Afternoon/Evening gentlemen. Any thoughts on Moondrop Liebesleid?




Hiiii!!!

How's it going?

I've got many thought on Moondrop Liebesleid. But I do not dare to say them out loud...
Too many expensive TOTL earbuds bought the last 2-3 years for me.


----------



## Danneq

Trzystatrzy said:


> Hi,
> Neutral earbuds with big and deep soundstage for ambient, movie scores and classical music? Soundmagic EP30 are too thin and Monk+ are too warm



What's your budget?

Yincrow RW-777 might be a good option. It's usually around $45-50 from Aliexpress but I think it's around $37-38 on the 11.11 sale. It is fairly neutral and has got quite a good and deep soundstage.


----------



## mbwilson111

Saoshyant said:


> Prefer the H185 look myself, but I don't remember if I've bought it or not...  I don't think so, but sometimes it's hard to keep track.  I'll have to dig through the drawers to see.



This is why you should have a complete updated list at all times!  lol   How many drawers full are there?


----------



## Saoshyant

mbwilson111 said:


> This is why you should have a complete updated list at all times!  lol   How many drawers full are there?



If I had to guess at currently earbud count, 90 sounds realistic.


----------



## mbwilson111

Saoshyant said:


> If I had to guess at currently earbud count, 90 sounds realistic.



not sure I should put a like on that


----------



## Saoshyant (Nov 11, 2017)

mbwilson111 said:


> not sure I should put a like on that



One of these days I'll sort through what's worth keeping, what isn't, and probably start offering to give away to those new to the hobby to try something.

Then again, at least the MX985 I should trade off one day.


----------



## euge

Trzystatrzy said:


> Hi,
> Neutral earbuds with big and deep soundstage for ambient, movie scores and classical music? Soundmagic EP30 are too thin and Monk+ are too warm



Moondrop nameless maybe


----------



## euge

acap13 said:


> Sorry if I sway you to another topic, but I see you have MX760 Graphene and Shozy BK. I would like to know the difference between them if I missed your impression somewhere here before. If you dont mind.



https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-diy-graphene.22565/reviews


----------



## KookaBurrra (Nov 11, 2017)

Shozy BK is in another league than Graphene. In comparaison, I found the sound of Graphene very thin and light, not consistent enough...

Moreover BK has an organic texture that does not have the other one. Same kind of signature but not same sound and sound quality, for me (I bought and resold the graphene).

You can also talk about fit, cable and finition : no debate at all!!

But, Graphene costs just 20$ : a steal for this quality. BK is 165$, it’s a too big price for most people.


----------



## jogawag

Orac said:


> There should be enough people here to share the load, it's OK to say "_I don't know about that item, maybe someone else who does know will be able to answer._" When you've already tried to help there is no need to feel bad if you can't do more



The answer to his question of how cables are different will only be available to the store at that point.
The answer to this question will not be able to be replaced by another head-fi member.

Did not you think that it was strange that he asked other members about such questions (without asking the store himself)?
Did not you think it was strange not to "like" the best answer to that (choose the one you like the most)?
I thought that if he kept it like this his way of asking questions would not change.

I think that these attitudes made me irritable.


----------



## waynes world

Saoshyant said:


> If I had to guess at currently earbud count, 90 sounds realistic.



I'm going to let that sink in (before it happens to me lol).


mbwilson111 said:


> not sure I should put a like on that



I definitely had to do it!


----------



## waynes world

KookaBurrra said:


> Shozy BK is in another league than Graphene. In comparaison, I found the sound of Graphene very thin and light, not consistent enough...
> 
> Moreover BK has an organic texture that does not have the other one. Same kind of signature but not same sound and sound quality, for me (I bought and resold the graphene).
> 
> ...



I'll need to at least hear the BK's one of these days - they are obviously are great.

I am a bit surprised though that you find the graphene's "very thin and light" - I sure don't. Is that in comparison to the BK's? 

Anyway, have you heard the Zen 1.0's? If so, I'd be interested in your comparison of the BK's versus the Zen 1.0's.


----------



## RodRevenge (Nov 11, 2017)

I got the DIY graphene, i went for the $ 22 version since the new one had a different frequency range acording to someone here, really happy with the purchase i wanted a neutral earbud and Graphenes are really praised

Kinda worries as some people say they are hard to fit and the mx500 shell is a little hard to fit on my left ear but we'll see.


----------



## intdev

springbay said:


> Hi answering here instead of the DM.
> Sorry, I can never ever recommend the Graphenes. They are badly tuned to my ears. Only interesting to have for reference.
> If you had asked me a year ago I would had recommended the MX98s, but now there are better buds at a cheaper price - read NICEHCK MX500/NICEHCK PK1.
> 
> ...



Thanks a lot for the in depth answer. How would you compare the NICEHCK PK1 to the sound of MX98s and the Graphenes?

I am looking for something neutral and versatile. Bass quality matters more than the quantity. Between Boarseman MX98s, NICEHCK DIY Graphene, Seahf awk-f32t, **** DIY EMX500, and now NICEHCK PK1, I still dunno what 2 earbuds to get.


----------



## SweetEars

intdev said:


> Thanks a lot for the in depth answer. How would you compare the NICEHCK PK1 to the sound of MX98s and the Graphenes?
> 
> I am looking for something neutral and versatile. Bass quality matters more than the quantity. Between Boarseman MX98s, NICEHCK DIY Graphene, Seahf awk-f32t, **** DIY EMX500, and now NICEHCK PK1, I still dunno what 2 earbuds to get.



graphene or the emx500 are safe bets. not sure of the others


----------



## SweetEars

RodRevenge said:


> I got the DIY graphene, i went for the $ 22 version since the new one had a different frequency range acording to someone here, really happy with the purchase i wanted a neutral earbud and Graphenes are really praised
> 
> Kinda worries as some people say they are hard to fit and the mx500 shell is a little hard to fit on my left ear but we'll see.




i ordered the newer version... it has  a range starting from 10 Hz. maybe better bass or it could be resemble the emx500 characteristics


----------



## snip3r77

What's next AFTER graphene? @.@


----------



## jogawag

SweetEars said:


> i ordered the newer version... it has  a range starting from 10 Hz. maybe better bass or it could be resemble the emx500 characteristics


I am expecting a comparison review with EMX500.


----------



## RodRevenge

SweetEars said:


> i ordered the newer version... it has  a range starting from 10 Hz. maybe better bass or it could be resemble the emx500 characteristics


Nice, we share opinions when we get them.


----------



## springbay (Nov 12, 2017)

intdev said:


> Thanks a lot for the in depth answer. How would you compare the NICEHCK PK1 to the sound of MX98s and the Graphenes?
> 
> I am looking for something neutral and versatile. Bass quality matters more than the quantity. Between Boarseman MX98s, NICEHCK DIY Graphene, Seahf awk-f32t, **** DIY EMX500, and now NICEHCK PK1, I still dunno what 2 earbuds to get.



Everything is relative. The first truly neutral and versatile buds I've encountered were the Cypherus Audio CAX Black. But then we are talking TOTL buds.
For now you should go with the NICEHCK MX500 or if you want a more comfy fit then the NICEHCK PK1.


----------



## Itayaz68

Any quick recommendations for neutral/mid centric iem at around 100 bucks?


----------



## chinmie

silverfishla said:


> I only have the H180 and H185 and honestly, they sound almost exactly alike.  H180 might have a slight edge on spaciousness (probably due to shell design).



to me they sound different, the H180 is warmer and bass oriented, more 3D soundstage,  while the H185 is more treble oriented, and wider soundstage on X axis, but less on depth. 



Danneq said:


> I've got many thought on Moondrop Liebesleid. But I do not dare to say them out loud...
> Too many expensive TOTL earbuds bought the last 2-3 years for me.



I've pulled a trigger on Liebesleid a few days ago. definitely like them, a little bass light though, but respond well to bass boosting



Saoshyant said:


> One of these days I'll sort through what's worth keeping, what isn't, and probably start offering to give away to those new to the hobby to try something.
> 
> Then again, at least the MX985 I should trade off one day.



I try to update my gear list everytime, to keep in check if i have too many already. i always try to get rid of the buds that i rarely use, or overlapping in sound with other in my collection 



KookaBurrra said:


> Shozy BK is in another league than Graphene. In comparaison, I found the sound of Graphene very thin and light, not consistent enough...
> 
> Moreover BK has an organic texture that does not have the other one. Same kind of signature but not same sound and sound quality, for me (I bought and resold the graphene).
> 
> ...



yep, the graphene is great, but not Shozy BK great. but considering the price, the Graphene is a no brainer, not to mention to me the graphene sound is rather unique


----------



## acap13

springbay said:


> Hi answering here instead of the DM.
> Sorry, I can never ever recommend the Graphenes. They are *badly tuned* to my ears. Only interesting to have for reference.



I'm sorry if I have to respectfully disagree with you, sir. I dont particularly sure what is it meant by *badly tuned*. I guess its neutral tuning which loved by majority but not necessarily basshead. Basshead would not love that much due to preference. And I have here EMX500 and Graphene MX760 with me and I would say both are quite enjoyable. To my ears , I would take Graphene anyday anytime to EMX500 due to lackness of subbass( lowest pitch region) extension and hollowness around midrange is quite worrying me because there lies the majority of fundamental notes. Fun? Yeah to me and many others. By comparison of both in terms of transparency, Graphene is way ahead for my taste. Thats just totally IMHO but its quite interesting to hear different obversation around here though.


----------



## doggiemom

springbay said:


> Everything is relative. The first truly neutral and versatile buds I've encountered were the Cypherus Audio CAX Black. But then we are talking TOTL buds.
> For now you should go with the NICEHCK MX500 or if you want a more comfy fit then the NICEHCK PK1.


I love the CAX Black too.    At heart, I am headphone person, but I do most of my listening at work, so I'm always looking for a bud that comes close to a headphone sound.  (That being said, I don't use the Cypherus' at work because of the cable).

No more love for the Boarsemans?  I still like them a lot.  I've not heard the PK1 though.


----------



## golov17

Official KINERA Earbuds Pre order
http://s.aliexpress.com/yqIBFzI3


----------



## dr.karaan

I bought shozy cygnus yday..
Nw i want help in buying below 15$ earbud which is slightly bass heavy ,m not bass head but still dont like neutral buds.
The options i thought are qian69 or 39, mx 500 or emx 500, edifier h180, seahf 32 amd k300.. plz reply fast guys only 4 hrs remaining


----------



## dr.karaan

springbay said:


> Hi answering here instead of the DM.
> Sorry, I can never ever recommend the Graphenes. They are badly tuned to my ears. Only interesting to have for reference.
> If you had asked me a year ago I would had recommended the MX98s, but now there are better buds at a cheaper price - read NICEHCK MX500/NICEHCK PK1.
> 
> ...


Is nicehck mx500 is better than other sellers?


----------



## springbay

acap13 said:


> I'm sorry if I have to respectfully disagree with you, sir. I dont particularly sure what is it meant by *badly tuned*. I guess its neutral tuning which loved by majority but not necessarily basshead. Basshead would not love that much due to preference. And I have here EMX500 and Graphene MX760 with me and I would say both are quite enjoyable. To my ears , I would take Graphene anyday anytime to EMX500 due to lackness of subbass( lowest pitch region) extension and hollowness around midrange is quite worrying me because there lies the majority of fundamental notes. Fun? Yeah to me and many others. By comparison of both in terms of transparency, Graphene is way ahead for my taste. Thats just totally IMHO but its quite interesting to hear different obversation around here though.



I'm no bass head. Stop implying that.
Here is a track showing why the Graphenes are badly tuned.

They are are simply not able to reproduce all notes.


----------



## springbay

dr.karaan said:


> Is nicehck mx500 is better than other sellers?


We are not allowed to discuss the other store since it is banned from Head Fi. I'm pretty sure all the AE stores have the same provider.


----------



## chaiyuta

@acap13 : There are many guys that dislike DIY graphene sounds, so take it easy man.


----------



## acap13

springbay said:


> I'm no bass head. Stop implying that.
> Here is a track showing why the Graphenes are badly tuned.
> 
> They are are simply not able to reproduce all notes.




Yeah, I'm pretty familiar with the Bubble- Yosi Horikawa. It is a masterpiece. Thanks for pointing that. And I'm sorry if I'm implying that you are a basshead which is you are not. Graphenes present pretty great effort on this track and shows the ability to emerge wonderful imaging and soundstage. I respect its extension and wide dynamic range. Its not perfect. But particularly great for its price. Could you elaborate more on your opinion of 'badly tune' of Graphene? Because I lost at that part for a moment. Thanks


----------



## springbay

doggiemom said:


> I love the CAX Black too.    At heart, I am headphone person, but I do most of my listening at work, so I'm always looking for a bud that comes close to a headphone sound.  (That being said, I don't use the Cypherus' at work because of the cable).
> 
> No more love for the Boarsemans?  I still like them a lot.  I've not heard the PK1 though.


It's not like day and night in this segment. Just that the NiceHCK buds are cheaper and don't suffer from the sibilant treble issues that the MX98s can bring in some genres...


----------



## acap13

chaiyuta said:


> @acap13 : There are many guys that dislike DIY graphene sounds, so take it easy man.



I'm actually didnt care whether people like or dislike the Graphene mate. And it was not what I talked about just now. Btw, sorry if I didnt take it easy. Cheers


----------



## theoutsider

snip3r77 said:


> What's next AFTER graphene? @.@


nothing. your life is complete now


----------



## euge

golov17 said:


> Official KINERA Earbuds Pre order
> http://s.aliexpress.com/yqIBFzI3



No release date? I guess it's not too expensive for a blind purchase... damn it


----------



## snip3r77

euge said:


> No release date? I guess it's not too expensive for a blind purchase... damn it


What’s with joining their telegram to purchase?


----------



## snip3r77

cursing said:


> nothing. your life is complete now


What the .

It’s ToTL? Lmao


----------



## euge (Nov 12, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> What’s with joining their telegram to purchase?



I didn't get the popup? Just did a regular purchase off the mobile app...

edit: ah nvm I see it now on the promo photo lol


----------



## theoutsider

snip3r77 said:


> What the .
> 
> It’s ToTL? Lmao


Graphene is FOTL, 'nuff said.


----------



## KookaBurrra (Nov 12, 2017)

waynes world said:


> I am a bit surprised though that you find the graphene's "very thin and light" - I sure don't. Is that in comparison to the BK's?


Yes, of course! Just in A/B comparaison, this felling. Because BK have more "body/sititng" in the sound. More presence, more impact, but still stay "liquid" and "organic" : yes, I love BK. 
_edit : maybe it's also a question of "fitting", It would be possible. Fit with BK - because of small diameter of shell - is perfectly perfect : so the sound seems to be more present, logically. It's just a __possibility, you know._

"Alone", without comparaison, Graphene is great earbud, especially if we reduce it to the value for money : in this case, he beats BK...



waynes world said:


> Anyway, have you heard the Zen 1.0's? If so, I'd be interested in your comparison of the BK's versus the Zen 1.0's.


No, sorry. 



chinmie said:


> yep, the graphene is great, but not Shozy BK great. but considering the price, the Graphene is a no brainer


Yes, agree with that.


----------



## Saoshyant

Kinera have no more stock, will have to try again later


----------



## chellity

I'm glad I ended up trying to limit myself just to the emxs-500...

Because I ended up snagging one of the last Kinera buds as well!  Two gambles on new buds, but i'm sure I will be happy with them.  The Kineras looked really pretty and apparently they go to 10hz with 12 ohm impedance...i'm sure they will be interesting


----------



## SweetEars

dr.karaan said:


> Is nicehck mx500 is better than other sellers?



emx500 and mx500 not the same. they are both  different earbuds i think


----------



## jogawag (Nov 12, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> emx500 and mx500 not the same. they are both  different earbuds i think


Of course mx500 means hck's?
Please tell me why do you think so?


----------



## wskl

Saoshyant said:


> Kinera have no more stock, will have to try again later



Actually, they were a limited edition, they are not going to make any more.  It is Kinera's first earbud project, the feedback they get will decide whether they will enter the earbud market in the future.


----------



## jogawag

wskl said:


> Actually, they were a limited edition, they are not going to make any more.  It is Kinera's first earbud project, the feedback they get will decide whether they will enter the earbud market in the future.


Where did you get that information from?
Please tell me.


----------



## wskl

jogawag said:


> Where did you get that information from?
> Please tell me.



I read some of the conversations from Kinera's Telegram group.


----------



## gazzington

Anybody know what faael snow lotus 2.0 earbuds are like?


----------



## jogawag

wskl said:


> I read some of the conversations from Kinera's Telegram group.


Thank you.
Then, that limited edition may have a premium price in the future.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 12, 2017)

dr.karaan said:


> I bought shozy cygnus yday..
> Nw i want help in buying below 15$ earbud which is slightly bass heavy ,m not bass head but still dont like neutral buds.
> The options i thought are qian69 or 39, mx 500 or emx 500, edifier h180, seahf 32 amd k300.. plz reply fast guys only 4 hrs remaining



Good choice


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 12, 2017)

KookaBurrra said:


> Yes, of course! Just in A/B comparaison, this felling. Because BK have more "body/sititng" in the sound. More presence, more impact, but still stay "liquid" and "organic" : yes, I love BK.
> _edit : maybe it's also a question of "fitting", It would be possible. Fit with BK - because of small diameter of shell - is perfectly perfect : so the sound seems to be more present, logically. It's just a __possibility, you know._
> 
> "Alone", without comparaison, Graphene is great earbud, especially if we reduce it to the value for money : in this case, he beats BK...
> ...


The Stardust is just extra thick like full size headphone thick. Makes earbuds you thought previously to be thick sound average/thinner.

I have to use the Stardust with a donut thin monk foam, because the regular monk thin foam was thickening the sound up too much and I was losing that treble impact I loved in the cygnus and diy pk2.

Once I got it back though the Stardust is perfect for rock/acoustic and any music where up front and crisp sound is more important than massive soundstage and atmospheric effect.

The stardust like the cygnus and diy pk2 was not made for atmospheric stuff, more for strings, vocals drums and all that stuff.

If this was paired with a more laid back and grand soundstage type earbud like maybe a Rose Mojito. You’d have the complete package!


*By the way guys, the new graphene is different in sound. I asked Jim Nicehck, he confirmed it’s a different driver. Someone needs to compare when they get it *


----------



## vladstef

How weird is it that new Graphene earbuds are almost 50% cheaper than the old ones? They might actually be a downgrade, just pointing it out.


----------



## mbwilson111

doggiemom said:


> No more love for the Boarsemans? I still like them a lot. I



I like the MX98 too.  This recent mention of them prompted me to get them out last night for a listen.  They stayed in my ears for several hours.  Very happy with the sound.  Really enjoyed my music with them.   My issues have been with the fit of the large Monk style shell.  Today my ears are a little tender where there was a bit of pressure.  It always feels  like they are sitting on a ledge about to fall.



springbay said:


> the sibilant treble issues that the MX98s can bring in some genres...



Which genres cause that problem for you?  I did not experience anything like that.



silverfishla said:


> I'm curious about the H190 because from their description, it's their pro model. I got those for 11.11 on a nice discount today.



I did not get an 11.11 discount... in fact I bought nothing from the sale.  The only thing I got for 11.11 was this Edifier H190 from Amazon UK... regular price of £12.99.  So it cost a bit more but they are in my ears right now and have been for a couple of hours since they arrived.  I ordered them at 10:30pm  last night and they arrived at 10.30am this morning.  Twelve hours!  Thank you for inspiring me to get them!

I am really pleased with the fit. Maybe my best fitting buds.  I think I must have strange ears.  The part where a bud needs to sit is small but my ear canals are big enough that I use medium tips for iems.  Sounding great as well.  Looking forward to your impressions.  I am not experienced enough with buds yet to answer any detailed questions. 

Using some stretched out Monk foams on them at the moment.  I could not get the tiny  provided foams onto them this morning... fingers too stiff from too much typing last night maybe... 

Plugged into my desktop system at the moment.  Foobar2000 to S.M.S.L  M6 dac/amp volume at 14   (some of my most sensitive iems and headphones are at 8 or 9 while a couple of  higher impedence headphones need it at about 28).  Most times I am between 10 and 16.  This is the first time I have plugged one of my buds into the system. I have headphones hanging at my desk.  Usually I use a dap with buds or iems.  I do not have a smartphone (I am a freak I know). Will certainly use these with my daps as the  secure fit of these will allow me to move around.  It feels like there is nothing in my ears.

Beautiful


----------



## krunchcrispy

seanc6441 said:


> Anyone who has never heard a shozy earbud but wants to get a taste of the shozy sound signature (minus deep bass and soundstage) should absolutely try out the DIY PK2 for $15 (cable 2,3).
> 
> Then if you like that flavour you can invest in a cygnus or stardust with confidence!
> 
> ...


How do you cut out a donut from the thin monk foams? They seem awful delicate. . .I'd like to try the thin foam donut, so would like your insights into the cutting, please. . .thanks!


----------



## SweetEars

seanc6441 said:


> *By the way guys, the new graphene is different in sound. I asked Jim Nicehck, he confirmed it’s a different driver. Someone needs to compare when they get it *



interesting.. whats different this time?


----------



## springbay

mbwilson111 said:


> I like the MX98 too.  ...
> Which genres cause that problem for you?  I did not experience anything like that.



We are talking about two different models: MX98s (one red and one blue bud) and MX98.
I have not heard the MX98, but some reports say they have a slightly darker tuning than the MX98s and are very well suited for Metal genres.
The MX98s have a more neutral tuning, kind of towards that of the Cygus but not as bright.
The MX98s can struggle with upbeat pop music and need thick foams to prevent them from becoming sibilant in those cases.


----------



## KookaBurrra

seanc6441 said:


> The Stardust is just extra thick like full size headphone thick. Makes earbuds you thought previously to be thick sound average/thinner.
> I have to use the Stardust with a donut thin monk foam, because the regular monk thin foam was thickening the sound up too much and I was losing that treble impact I loved in the cygnus and diy pk2.
> Once I got it back though the Stardust is perfect for rock/acoustic and any music where up front and crisp sound is more important than massive soundstage and atmospheric effect.
> The stardust like the cygnus and diy pk2 was not made for atmospheric stuff, more for strings, vocals drums and all that stuff.
> If this was paired with a more laid back and grand soundstage type earbud like maybe a Rose Mojito. You’d have the complete package!


Good description!!
I have TY Hi-Z HP-650 to complete BK. More laidback, more smooth, totally different way of presenting music.


----------



## snip3r77

wskl said:


> Actually, they were a limited edition, they are not going to make any more.  It is Kinera's first earbud project, the feedback they get will decide whether they will enter the earbud market in the future.


Not going to support lmao


----------



## theoutsider

snip3r77 said:


> Not going to support lmao


it's ok, your life is complete now


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> The Stardust is just extra thick like full size headphone thick. Makes earbuds you thought previously to be thick sound average/thinner.
> 
> I have to use the Stardust with a donut thin monk foam, because the regular monk thin foam was thickening the sound up too much and I was losing that treble impact I loved in the cygnus and diy pk2.
> 
> ...



if you like treble, you might want to try the Liebesleid. I enjoyed them more than the BK on the treble side. the BK has a harder sounding treble (like hitting a glass with a spoon) while the Liebesleid has a more pleasantly dispersed treble (like hitting a glass with a fork). sorry for the analogy, i hope it can describe them clear enough


----------



## HungryPanda

No kinera earbud for me just get a notification that the don't ship to my location in UK


----------



## rahmish

HungryPanda said:


> No kinera earbud for me just get a notification that the don't ship to my location in UK


Hmm, I am in UK as well, maybe they not gonna ship to me as well...


----------



## HungryPanda

Hopefully if they take off we will get our hands on them


----------



## j4100

rahmish said:


> Hmm, I am in UK as well, maybe they not gonna ship to me as well...


Oh dear! I got in on the pre-order as well, though yet to receive that email. Maybe it's just Kent they don't like


----------



## waynes world

cursing said:


> Graphene is FOTL, 'nuff said.



Fruit Of The Loom?



KookaBurrra said:


> Yes, of course! Just in A/B comparaison, this felling. Because BK have more "body/sititng" in the sound. More presence, more impact, but still stay "liquid" and "organic" : yes, I love BK.
> _edit : maybe it's also a question of "fitting", It would be possible. Fit with BK - because of small diameter of shell - is perfectly perfect : so the sound seems to be more present, logically. It's just a __possibility, you know._
> 
> "Alone", without comparaison, Graphene is great earbud, especially if we reduce it to the value for money : in this case, he beats BK...




Thanks. And yes, fit may be a factor. I shift the bottom of the graphene bud stem forward to get a better fit/seal, which produces a fuller sound.


----------



## Tomasz2D

Danneq said:


> Hiiii!!!
> 
> How's it going?



Good, good, good. In the meantime I went through cans and found my favorite ones so now I am pretty much settled knowing what my favorite both earbuds and cans are. I waited for 11.11. sale just to buy Vido and Lyra because I always liked Lyra6 so I thought I will buy Lyra Classic - the new (old) edition without the earhooks. I still feel sentimental about this thread so I drop here like once a month and read new posts.  Daniel, I see you are mastering Red Dragon style now, going for that black belt in earbuds so you still keep on searching, following the path of dragon


----------



## doggiemom

cursing said:


> nothing. your life is complete now


Beryllium in a bud?


----------



## acap13

doggiemom said:


> Beryllium in a bud?



A Focal Utopia of earbuds would have been great?


----------



## silverfishla

mbwilson111 said:


> I like the MX98 too.  This recent mention of them prompted me to get them out last night for a listen.  They stayed in my ears for several hours.  Very happy with the sound.  Really enjoyed my music with them.   My issues have been with the fit of the large Monk style shell.  Today my ears are a little tender where there was a bit of pressure.  It always feels  like they are sitting on a ledge about to fall
> 
> Wow, 12 hr. delivery, that’s amazing!  Man, I’m glad you like them, now I’m excited to get mine and see how they compare to the H180.  I’ll probably have to wait 4 weeks to get mine...
> 
> ...


----------



## Ira Delphic

Any idea of the difference between the Graphene Nicehck old vs. new? The specs are a little different, frequency range.  I ordered the "old" 2017 for $22.42 11.11 price. Thanks!


----------



## seanc6441

SweetEars said:


> interesting.. whats different this time?



Never asked him that much, just asked was the sound different or only the cable/housing. He said sound is different. If it's cheaper though I doubt it's an upgrade, more like a budget variant because the old one was selling so well (I assume) and some people would be reluctant to spend $25 coming from VE monks etc. Just my speculation anyway.


----------



## PacoBdn (Nov 12, 2017)

Ira Delphic said:


> Any idea of the difference between the Graphene Nicehck old vs. new? The specs are a little different, frequency range.  I ordered the "old" 2017 for $22.42 11.11 price. Thanks!



Quiet, the one you have bought is excellent. With the new one we still do not know what differences of sound it will have with the "old".

Dedicate some time to find the combination of foams that best suits your tastes.


----------



## vladstef

I've ordered Headroom MS16 yesterday but the processing time is only 2 more days. Is this a regular occurrence or should I just extend it and not worry about it?


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 12, 2017)

krunchcrispy said:


> How do you cut out a donut from the thin monk foams? They seem awful delicate. . .I'd like to try the thin foam donut, so would like your insights into the cutting, please. . .thanks!



Well because I'm a perfectionist when it comes to sound tonality I have since changed to the cheapo thin full foams (also cut into donut) that Golov suggested to me awhile back. They are like a rougher textured VE monk thin (in black) but they block just a tiny bit more sound thus taming the harshness of the treble slightly better whilst retaining the sparkly sound that was lacking with heigi or full ve monk thin foams.

The sound is absolutely perfect now on my stardust since the thin black donut foams give the right balance of bass, tamed treble, mid thickness (not too much as before with heigi/full monk thins) and most importantly an airy quality that is impossible to achieve on the stardust with heigi foams.

As for the actual cutting process it's very easy (just practice once on a throwaway pair of full foams first). Here's what to do.

- Grab a small scissors that's sharp enough to cut with the very top point, make sure the blades are smaller and you can make precise cuts.
- holding the foam under light, with the full front side facing you, you will see through the foam the outline of he circle cut out on the back.
- Stick the scissors through the front gently and start cutting around the outline matching the cut on the back.
- make small cuts and rotate the foam each time until you have a full circle

Voila! now you have yourself a thin donut foam for ultimate clarity.

I'm not using the ve monk donut of the stardust anymore because it was too harsh on the trreble. The foam quality is better on the ve monk the cheap black thin foams, but the sound balance is better on my current configuration.

You can buy 100 of these cheap black foams here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...p-Ear-Pads-Cover-Replacement/32790634729.html

They are dirt cheap, I can't work out how they sell them so cheap and not make a loss lol.


----------



## j4100

I have also ordered those foams plus full and donut Hiegi's. Plenty of experimenting ahead. Also still have 'VE pack


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 12, 2017)

chinmie said:


> if you like treble, you might want to try the Liebesleid. I enjoyed them more than the BK on the treble side. the BK has a harder sounding treble (like hitting a glass with a spoon) while the Liebesleid has a more pleasantly dispersed treble (like hitting a glass with a fork). sorry for the analogy, i hope it can describe them clear enough


It's also $100 more expensive so I will have to pass 

The thing with he shozy bk is the treble is very tame with full or heigi foams, the sound is incredibly thick too, too much for my taste. With monk thin foams it's slightly thinner and slightly better treble, but it's still not right for me. With thin monk's cut into donut it's perfect thickness of sound but the treble is too harsh. With the new cut donut thin black foams the treble is managable and just ever so slightly rough but not enough to be a problem. So now it's very very nice.

Ideally I'd be looking for these black foams but just a better quality grade of softer foam because they are a bit scrathcy... but you can't always get what you want. For now I'm satisfied and the shozy bk is awesome.

For the record though, I think the shozy cygnus does treble right, really crisp and nicely bright but slightly rolled off to avoid any harshness, also the mid bass bump is quite pleasant, altough the quality of the bass is better on stardust. If they took the cygnus treble and mid bass into the stardust toneality and resolution I think I'd prefer it over how the stardust is currently, but it's extremely fine margins as the cygnus and stardust sound so similar overall.

I've never heard a grado headphone but I can imagine the shozy BK is the equivilant in the earbud world lol. Maybe one of the middle of the line versions not the kill your eardrums treble head versions


----------



## krunchcrispy

seanc6441 said:


> Well because I'm a perfectionist when it comes to sound tonality I have since changed to the cheapo thin full foams (also cut into donut) that Golov suggested to me awhile back. They are like a rougher textured VE monk thin (in black) but they block just a tiny bit more sound thus taming the harshness of the treble slightly better whilst retaining the sparkly sound that was lacking with heigi or full ve monk thin foams.
> 
> The sound is absolutely perfect now on my stardust since the thin black donut foams give the right balance of bass, tamed treble, mid thickness (not too much as before with heigi/full monk thins) and most importantly an airy quality that is impossible to achieve on the stardust with heigi foams.
> 
> ...


Great, thanks!


----------



## seanc6441

krunchcrispy said:


> Great, thanks!


As you can tell, the stardust is more picky than the cygnus but find the perfect source/foams etc and you will be rewarded with a lush, exciting and powerful sound that is amazing. They are so forward though so if that's not your thing look elsewhere, or get the cygnus is only slightly forward and more neutral toneality but equally exciting IMO.


----------



## fairx

seanc6441 said:


> Well because I'm a perfectionist when it comes to sound tonality I have since changed to the cheapo thin full foams (also cut into donut) that Golov suggested to me awhile back. They are like a rougher textured VE monk thin (in black) but they block just a tiny bit more sound thus taming the harshness of the treble slightly better whilst retaining the sparkly sound that was lacking with heigi or full ve monk thin foams.
> 
> The sound is absolutely perfect now on my stardust since the thin black donut foams give the right balance of bass, tamed treble, mid thickness (not too much as before with heigi/full monk thins) and most importantly an airy quality that is impossible to achieve on the stardust with heigi foams.
> 
> ...


glad to hear the foam work as an alternative to standard full foam and porous ve foam. And 100 pcs for a mere dollar it's baffling. Mine on its way.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 12, 2017)

fairx said:


> glad to hear the foam work as an alternative to standard full foam and porous ve foam. And 100 pcs for a mere dollar it's baffling. Mine on its way.


I mean they aren't the best foams ever but they are so cheap it doesn't matter and can be tried out if you don't have the cash to spend on VE thin foams which are expensive... Kind of wish I could buy VE monk foams without all the eartips and rings, which I don't have a use for.

I'm swapping between standard donut foams (non heigi) and these thin cheap donuts I made. The standard are perfectly taming and smoothing out the rough treble, but the sound is not airy enough and so forward that you are constantly engaged to the music and cannot have it "in the background" so to speak. Still nothing as much as the heigi donut but not airy enough.

The one's i mentioned above are very airy, and whilst they have a more airy quality and tamer high's the monk thin's and a less intense sound than the standard or heigi donuts.... They sound abit rough and harsh as the stardust seem's to be without thicker foams.

I'll be looking out for a foam in between thickness of standard full foam and monk thin foam that's softer and slightly thicker than the cheap black foams.

I feel like when I spent the money on the stardust it would be a shame to not get the absolute best sound out of it in terms of foam choice.

If anyone knows of such a foam in between ve monk thin and standard foam, please please let me know. Thanks.


----------



## krunchcrispy

Just FYI -- I bought one of these amps -- the hand tuned one -- and asked XRK to tune it for symphonies and low impedance earbuds. Wow, incredible with the Stardust (and the FLC8s iems).  A bit pricey, but I was ready for an upgrade,   I completely agree with this review
:https://headfonics.com/2017/06/the-class-a-nhb-pocket-amp-by-xrk-audio/


----------



## RodRevenge

seanc6441 said:


> Well because I'm a perfectionist when it comes to sound tonality I have since changed to the cheapo thin full foams (also cut into donut) that Golov suggested to me awhile back. They are like a rougher textured VE monk thin (in black) but they block just a tiny bit more sound thus taming the harshness of the treble slightly better whilst retaining the sparkly sound that was lacking with heigi or full ve monk thin foams.
> 
> The sound is absolutely perfect now on my stardust since the thin black donut foams give the right balance of bass, tamed treble, mid thickness (not too much as before with heigi/full monk thins) and most importantly an airy quality that is impossible to achieve on the stardust with heigi foams.
> 
> ...


Ty for the foams already placed an order.


----------



## SweetEars

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...p-Ear-Pads-Cover-Replacement/32790634729.html

Hw many pieces  u get for $1.18?


----------



## wskl

vladstef said:


> I've ordered Headroom MS16 yesterday but the processing time is only 2 more days. Is this a regular occurrence or should I just extend it and not worry about it?



I never really took notice of the processing times previously because the sellers I have used in the past normally ship within 48 hrs.  FWIW, I ordered something yesterday and the processing time shows up as 8 days.


----------



## theoutsider

waynes world said:


> Fruit Of The Loom?



First of the Line


----------



## waynes world

cursing said:


> First of the Line



_That _makes sense!


----------



## fairx

Speaking of ve rings. I finally found the use in sharp MD. Rings + thin foam increase bass speed and now more linear with the sub bass.  overall still not  tight.  It also add some resolution although now the highs feels grainy.  Good on some track but not on others. I hope to mod the foams with hole puncher to perfect balance airlines and bass.


----------



## seanc6441

SweetEars said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...p-Ear-Pads-Cover-Replacement/32790634729.html
> 
> Hw many pieces  u get for $1.18?


Roughly 100. It’s the same size bag as VE PACK but filled to the brim with foams.


----------



## j4100

My Penon order hasn't processed yet. Is this normal? Aliexpress says it has 26 hours to go until it gets cancelled. Anyone got experience with this on Ali?


----------



## Tim Le

Hey guys, I'm eyeing the Shozy BK, but has anything come out recently that gives them a run for their money?


----------



## thftg

j4100 said:


> My Penon order hasn't processed yet. Is this normal? Aliexpress says it has 26 hours to go until it gets cancelled. Anyone got experience with this on Ali?


Same for me, 22 hours to go. On the other hand, only two out of five 11/11 orders got processed till now. I will probably use the "Extend Processing Time" button for the Penon order.


----------



## j4100

Yeah, I had three orders (one on 10th which only processed today) and this one is still outstanding, the rest have shipped. I noticed the extend button, so will use that if they haven't shipped by tomorrow morning.


----------



## jogawag (Nov 13, 2017)

Tim Le said:


> Hey guys, I'm eyeing the Shozy BK, but has anything come out recently that gives them a run for their money?


Shozy BK seems to be limited to a certain number of products, so if you want to buy it, you may had better buy a little hurry.
<information from Japan>
http://blog.livedoor.jp/headphone_metal/archives/52349598.html


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 13, 2017)

Tim Le said:


> Hey guys, I'm eyeing the Shozy BK, but has anything come out recently that gives them a run for their money?


Depends what your after.

BK is excellent for warm balanced full sound. Vocals very forward, treble smooth and nicely extended with thicker foams like donut and full but harsher and extremely detailed with monk thin foams so you get to chose your preference. It has great extension on both ends so you get a healthy amount of sub bass and highs/treble, but it's not over done on emphasis since it's balanced and not U or V shaped. Overall it's a great performer but it's not got a massively out of head experience for soundstage (more up front and small room effect but still have good imaging and incredible resolution and detail)so it's more suited to vocal/acoustic/rock/jazz music than EDM, symphony or atmospheric stuff. I would consider it a very organic natural sound like the Cygnus but slightly more leveled off and warmer whereas cygnus is more neutral and has more rolled off treble and a mid bass bump for fun factor.

If you like to hear your *vocals with great weight and lush mids, warm and musical.* Go for stardust.

If you prefer a *grand atmospheric effect with huge soundstage and lots of space*/ sound. Look elsewhere!


----------



## Tim Le

seanc6441 said:


> Depends what your after.
> 
> BK is excellent for warm balanced full sound. Vocals very forward, treble smooth and nicely extended with thicker foams like donut and full but harsher and extremely detailed with monk thin foams so you get to chose your preference. It has great extension on both ends so you get a healthy amount of sub bass and highs/treble, but it's not over done on emphasis since it's balanced and not U or V shaped. Overall it's a great performer but it's not got a massively out of head experience for soundstage (more up front and small room effect but still have good imaging and incredible resolution and detail)so it's more suited to vocal/acoustic/rock/jazz music than EDM, symphony or atmospheric stuff. I would consider it a very organic natural sound like the Cygnus but slightly more leveled off and warmer whereas cygnus is more neutral and has more rolled off treble and a mid bass bump for fun factor.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the heads up! 

If I'm looking for an earbud that excels at EDM in this price point, what would you recommend?


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 13, 2017)

Tim Le said:


> Thanks for the heads up!
> 
> If I'm looking for an earbud that excels at EDM in this price point, what would you recommend?


At the hifi price point? I've got no clue because I don't listen to EDM. But at the budget price point EMX500 is recommended on here and having heard it myself I would say it's got an incredible sense spacious and atmospheric effect in soundstage, U shaped signature (bassy and high's) are emphasised over mids. Extended really well in sub bass and has very detailed treble.

For $10 it massively overachieves and sounds similar to my $90 Rose Masya. Except the mids which are slightly rougher/less detailed. It's a perfect earbud for EDM though and will outperform easily the shozy stardust for EDM regardless of price.

Also check out the R4YS if you prefer slightly less emphasised treble and more punchy bass than deep bass slightly. They seems to be similar signature overall just slight differences in treble and bass and maybe R4YS can be considered a smoother sound (not sure).

This is what I can gather from opinions in this thread, check out those two earbuds anyway for EDM.


----------



## siderak

seanc6441 said:


> Depends what your after.
> 
> BK is excellent for warm balanced full sound. Vocals very forward, treble smooth and nicely extended with thicker foams like donut and full but harsher and extremely detailed with monk thin foams so you get to chose your preference. It has great extension on both ends so you get a healthy amount of sub bass and highs/treble, but it's not over done on emphasis since it's balanced and not U or V shaped. Overall it's a great performer but it's not got a massively out of head experience for soundstage (more up front and small room effect but still have good imaging and incredible resolution and detail)so it's more suited to vocal/acoustic/rock/jazz music than EDM, symphony or atmospheric stuff. I would consider it a very organic natural sound like the Cygnus but slightly more leveled off and warmer whereas cygnus is more neutral and has more rolled off treble and a mid bass bump for fun factor.
> 
> ...



For the latter qualities, I highly recommend Cypherus’ Campfred 2!


----------



## seanc6441

siderak said:


> For the latter qualities, I highly recommend Cypherus’ Campfred 2!


Yes definitely I think the Shozy BK is an amazing earbud but shouldn't be your only earbud because it is one type of sound and not the other as you say that campfred 2 is.


----------



## KookaBurrra (Nov 13, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> BK is excellent for warm balanced full sound. Vocals very forward, treble smooth and nicely extended with thicker foams like donut and full but harsher and extremely detailed with monk thin foams so you get to chose your preference. It has great extension on both ends so you get a healthy amount of sub bass and highs/treble, but it's not over done on emphasis since it's balanced and not U or V shaped. Overall it's a great performer but it's not got a massively out of head experience for soundstage (more up front and small room effect but still have good imaging and incredible resolution and detail)so it's more suited to vocal/acoustic/rock/jazz music than EDM, symphony or atmospheric stuff. I would consider it a very organic natural sound like the Cygnus but slightly more leveled off and warmer whereas cygnus is more neutral and has more rolled off treble and a mid bass bump for fun factor.
> If you like to hear your *vocals with great weight and lush mids, warm and musical.* Go for stardust.


Very good description and I'm totally agree with all you said. 


seanc6441 said:


> Yes definitely I think the Shozy BK is an amazing earbud but shouldn't be your only earbud because it is one type of sound and not the other as you say that campfred 2 is.


This is my main earbud and I don't listen to the others I have (VE Monk - EMX500 - Vido -...). And I sold everything worth more than $ 10. Just keeping BK and happy with it. But I have others headphones, it's true.


----------



## seanc6441

KookaBurrra said:


> Very good description and I'm totally agree with all you said.
> 
> This is my main earbud and I don't listen to the others I have (VE Monk - EMX500 - Vido -...). And I sold everything worth more than $ 10. Just keeping BK and happy with it.


I’m rotating between cygnus and BK more so than my Masya because of the superior vocal body.

I wish the cygnus had the resolution and mid body of stardust because I think i’d prefer its overall presentation more than the stardust.

Slightly less upfront mids, more sparkly treble but rolled off so very smooth.

Little mid bass bump but very tasteful.

But lacking the resolution and vocal body of stardust 

Still both are great and sound close overall!


----------



## neptunegarand

I've been very happy my.ce6p s from cosmic ears atm. I plan on looking into some 10/12 driver models at some point however. 

Any high end suggestions?


----------



## seanc6441

neptunegarand said:


> I've been very happy my.ce6p s from cosmic ears atm. I plan on looking into some 10/12 driver models at some point however.
> 
> Any high end suggestions?


That sounds suspiciously like an IEM?

Is it? This thread is for earbuds, there’s another thread for IEM’s


----------



## Saoshyant

I always wonder a little if you just have a bad Masya, I mean this is Rose Tech we're talking about.  It's not exactly out of the question.


----------



## KookaBurrra (Nov 13, 2017)

Last Thursday:





neptunegarand said:


> Sorry guys I'm a newbie but been browsing for a few years  just thought I'd recommend cosmic ears, My ce6ps are fantastic. Previously owners their ce2ps and prior to that a pair of Minerva mi performa pros. Anyone in the UK should consider them and I recommend Gisele flower in London, brilliant audiologist!





KookaBurrra said:


> Ok... But wrong topic. Here : earbuds. Not IEM...





neptunegarand said:


> Sorry my mistake!



And Today:


neptunegarand said:


> I've been very happy my.ce6p s from cosmic ears atm. I plan on looking into some 10/12 driver models at some point however.
> Any high end suggestions?


Do you have a short memory?


----------



## seanc6441

Saoshyant said:


> I always wonder a little if you just have a bad Masya, I mean this is Rose Tech we're talking about.  It's not exactly out of the question.


I feared that too. But everything else sounds good in the driver. If the driver was an issue surely I'd hear distortion of highs/lows/mids. Not just solely the vocals.

It helped a lot to the change source to my laptop. The vocals thickened to cygnus level and everything else is silky smooth and articulate. But out of my phone it was wayyy too thin... I'd need someone with the masya and an iphone 6s to test it and see how the vocals fair in comparison to literally any other earbud on the market (all my other earbuds beat the masya for vocal body/thickness). I'm gonna play around with the fit and I bought some silicone eartips to try on them as suggested before.


These buds drive well from a phone for everything except vocals it seems. Maybe if my phone had a strong amp it would be awesome, but for now it's PC only earbud.


----------



## SweetEars

Basically the emx 500 has a good wide soundstage , surrounding  the listener. When we refer to soundstage we are looking for 3 things, horizontal, vertical and depth the emx 500 does all 3 well. The sound is not forward nor recessed. 

*Articulation *is another aspect of a good earbud. Articulation refers to Layering in how the treble, mid and bass is articulated. there must be a clear distinction in how they are displayed. Most flat response earphones and earbuds display a sound that is uniform and without articulation.

_*Detail , Sparkle and sub bass*_ : These are characteristics referring to accuracy and vibrancy of the sound. sparkle is an extended frequency reverb effect when treble sounds occur and sub bass is the low bass extension ( sometimes as  rumble effect or presented as flat and smooth effect  distinct from the mid bass)   the emx500 does these quite well .

The only drawback of the emx 500 have is *transparency*. They are not very transparent in the stage  This refers to individual sounds which have fluidity and airyness in a 3D soundstage. it mainly refers  to sounds floating or traveling on  forward (depth) layering in 3D space,   which is different from the high mid and low layering (articulation). Although a soundstage can be airy, airyness here refers to the amount of background surround , transparency allows for the sounds to have a fluid or wet or floating quality for a 3D holographic sound


----------



## waynes world

SweetEars said:


> Basically the emx 500 has a good wide soundstage , surrounding  the listener. When we refer to soundstage we are looking for 3 things, horizontal, vertical and depth the emx 500 does all 3 well. The sound is not forward nor recessed.
> 
> *Articulation *is another aspect of a good earbud. Articulation refers to Layering in how the treble, mid and bass is articulated. there must be a clear distinction in how they are displayed. Most flat response earphones and earbuds display a sound that is uniform and without articulation.
> 
> ...



I appreciate those definitions. Thanks.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

The *TY Hi-Z AWK-F150TS* is officially ready to purchase!

[Just make sure you click on the correct name for check out] 

https://penonaudio.com/brand/DIY-ALL-MODLES/TY-Hi-Z-ALL-MODELS/TY-Hi-Z-Earbuds


----------



## Cyperus

#share 
The Analogue Vibes of CAX Black Edition.. 
chin slider inserted


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I was given a unique opportunity to test out the new *Uairekko - Despair*.






Before I dive into the signature description, I want to say that even being a demo version, it is well built earbud. The 3.5mm Uairekko branded plug is solid and has plentiful amounts of strain relief that give way to the tough and firm braided cable. The Y splitter is beautifully dealt with using a purple gem bead. Following the split leads to the earbud housings, in this case hand painted by Ryo Chandra Lesmana. The only slight issue that can be said about the custom art is it can make it difficult to tell which is right and left. I use a stereo test to first figure out which is which and then change out the foam ear covers to red and blue.


Now onto the sound...

The first thing that hit my ears was the sweet, delicious mids that come through slightly forward and make vocals sound wonderful. Then my attention was directed toward the lows, which are accurate, but not overly powerful. While impact is subtle, I would not call them bass light. What is there has a nice mixture of mid and sub bass. The highs have good detail without being harsh or bright. The overall balance of the Despair is tuned for outstanding audio enjoyment. Very much for vocal lovers.


Ryo has done a impressive job putting together this earbud and it gets a high recommendation from me.


----------



## vladstef

EMXs - 500 is really tempting. The fact that everyone is saying that this is a clear upgrade is mind blowing. Probably better QC compared to regular EMX-500 as well.
Clear color is also a welcome change.


----------



## j4100

thftg said:


> Same for me, 22 hours to go. On the other hand, only two out of five 11/11 orders got processed till now. I will probably use the "Extend Processing Time" button for the Penon order.



I guess they were just busy. I sent them a message this morning and immediately got a reply my order is now shipping.

Looking forward to my Hiegi full and donut foams to try out on some of my buds.


----------



## Danneq

All quiet on the western front


Cyperus said:


> #share
> The Analogue Vibes of CAX Black Edition..
> chin slider inserted




Great to see you here, Herry!

CampFred 2 is really great! I managed to find a second hand pair. A good step up from CF1. Still far from Red Dragon of course, but definitely one of the top TOTL earbuds today!


----------



## snip3r77

vladstef said:


> EMXs - 500 is really tempting. The fact that everyone is saying that this is a clear upgrade is mind blowing. Probably better QC compared to regular EMX-500 as well.
> Clear color is also a welcome change.



Clear graphene > Clear EMXs 500


----------



## vladstef

snip3r77 said:


> Clear graphene > Clear EMXs 500



Slightly surprising to be honest because many people have compared graphene and EMX500 with trading blows, so I kinda expected EMXs to pull slightly ahead. I understand that refinement is important, perhaps you value graphenes' coherence more than the raw technicalities.


----------



## Cyperus

Danneq said:


> All quiet on the western front
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Daniel... its been sometimes from my last post ever since the Cypherus Audio thread deleted. 

Glad to know you get CampFred 2 from the 2nd market. Congratulation on your newly addition and Thanks for the praise as always.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 14, 2017)

Thought people would like to know that the VE Monk pack has changed. The thin foams are different now (I think they are slightly thicker looking) an come in Red/Blue, Black and White (1 pair of each).

At first I was pissed off because I order 3 ex packs for $15... but then I gave them a chance and I think they are pretty nice still. Slightly more full/bassy sound from the thickness, slightly less treblely and clarity. Very minor changes but still I wish I was getting what I expected... Odd of them to change it and the whole reason to buy the expack is usually for the thin extra clarity foams... UGHHH!!! Not cool VE. They are still thinner than the stock full foams but not what it used to be.


----------



## teesui

Heads up for those who bought a pair of the Kinera limited edition earbuds.

(Source is from Steve of Kinera in the Kinera fan group on Telegram but paraphased by me)

The earbud are not meant to be used with mobile phones. 

My guess is that the earbuds are not tuned to be used with the common popular smart phones that are out there.


----------



## Saoshyant

@Cyperus Always happy to see you around.  CF2 is still my favorite of my earbuds with the Blue Darth coming with me when I need some music away from home, pairing it with the AK XB10.  I don't know if I'll ever go to the extent Danneq did with the Red Dragon, but I'm glad I've bought what I have.


----------



## seanc6441

teesui said:


> Heads up for those who bought a pair of the Kinera limited edition earbuds.
> 
> (Source is from Steve of Kinera in the Kinera fan group on Telegram but paraphased by me)
> 
> ...


Well I mean the common smart phones don't always share components so it'd be hard to avoid tuning for atleast one sound signature of a mobile device. Maybe it's the amping they require, something much more powerful?


----------



## chellity

teesui said:


> Heads up for those who bought a pair of the Kinera limited edition earbuds.
> 
> (Source is from Steve of Kinera in the Kinera fan group on Telegram but paraphased by me)
> 
> ...



Sounds like another pairing for my cayin n3  low output impedance with enough gain, I hope...then again, even graphenes sound different and brighter out of my iphone 6 compared to my cayin n3.


----------



## DeltaRay

11:11 came early . Hello diy pk2, graphene and nameless!


----------



## mbwilson111

silverfishla said:


> The H180 has a head size similar to monk, but the body is slimmer and so is the neck part, which makes it easier to angle around in the ear.  The H185 is smaller with a different angled design.  The H190 looks to be inbetween, but I can't confirm on this one, because I haven't received that one yet.



I took some photos to attempt to show the difference in size and shape of the Edifier H185 and the H190.  I included my Monk to give an idea of size in comparison to that common shape.  I have problems with the Monk fit but I must say I love the fit of my H190.  My husband received the H185 at the same time so I was able to compare.  I also plan to compare the sound but I am not really good at describing differences.  I will say that I am really enjoying the sound of the H190.  I don't think you will be disappointed.


I like the flat cable on the H190.  It does not tangle.  It fits more securely in my ear than the Monk and it actually feels better in my ear than the H185 does but everyone's ear is so different,


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 14, 2017)

DeltaRay said:


> 11:11 came early . Hello diy pk2, graphene and nameless!


Burn in that PK2 for a long time. If your unsatisfied with the bass you can try my mod too 

The nameless box looks prepared for a Christmas gift xD


----------



## Cyperus

Thanks @Saoshyant 

A bit busy with other things lately. Just wait for special edition line up in limited quantity before jumping up to Red Dragon


----------



## SweetEars

waynes world said:


> I appreciate those definitions. Thanks.[/QUOirevie





snip3r77 said:


> Clear graphene > Clear EMXs 500


u want some kind articulated  sound or well organised sound and  then go for the emx500.


----------



## DeltaRay

seanc6441 said:


> Burn in that PK2 for a long time. If your unsatisfied with the bass you can try my mod too


yep, throwing all of them into the burner. 

though initial impressions of all three out of box seem to match all the impressions given out so far.

after putting foams on graphene, the fitting of the buds felt slightly uncomfortable though.




seanc6441 said:


> The nameless box looks prepared for a Christmas gift xD


The presentation is really pretty!


----------



## acap13

DeltaRay said:


> yep, throwing all of them into the burner.
> 
> though initial impressions of all three out of box seem to match all the impressions given out so far.
> 
> after putting foams on graphene, the fitting of the buds felt slightly uncomfortable though.



Glad you enjoy them. Whats your first impression on each of the earbuds?

Btw, if you feel stock foam is obtrusive for Graphene, you may try monk+ thin foam and see how it goes.


----------



## DBaldock9

The OurArt Ti7 that I ordered from Penon Audio, arrived yesterday.

I listened for a while with the stock cable, connected to my iFi Micro iDSD (XBass=On; 3D HolographicSound=On), streaming audio from my Roku 4, and they sounded good and clear, with a bit of a Midrange & Treble emphasis.

Then I swapped out the Donut Foams for Hiegi Full Foams, connected the Ti7 to my Impact Audio Cables 2.5mm TRRS > MMCX cable, and hooked them to the Balanced output of my Onkyo DP-X1B (EQ=Off; Viper4Android=ON for Spatial & Bass enhancement).
Since the Ti7 don't have a strong Bass impact, they would probably benefit from a _warm_ source or amp, like my Walnut F1.

Still awaiting the MusicMaker ToneKing TO200 that I ordered from NiceHCK Audio.


----------



## ichtch

anybody here has willsound mk1 and mk2? need the comparison both of them , especially which one has good for vocal?


----------



## jogawag

DBaldock9 said:


> The OurArt Ti7 that I ordered from Penon Audio, arrived yesterday.
> 
> I listened for a while with the stock cable, connected to my iFi Micro iDSD (XBass=On; 3D HolographicSound=On), streaming audio from my Roku 4, and they sounded good and clear, with a bit of a Midrange & Treble emphasis.
> 
> ...



Please fill in the evaluation of our OurArt Ti 7 in "Earbud Survey" of the link below.
Please also evaluate after obtaining the next ToneKing TO 200.

https://goo.gl/forms/qnuPq59sxvTJj5kp1


----------



## chinmie

ichtch said:


> anybody here has willsound mk1 and mk2? need the comparison both of them , especially which one has good for vocal?



The MK1 has warmer mids and treble, it's better for vocals and soft pop songs. the MK2 is more clear on the treble, more suitable for modern music


----------



## ichtch

chinmie said:


> The MK1 has warmer mids and treble, it's better for vocals and soft pop songs. the MK2 is more clear on the treble, more suitable for modern music


thanks!!! what foam do you use for mk1 and mk2? im planning to use hiegi full foam on mk1 im afraid it will makes the bass more bassy and bleeding to mid range


----------



## ichtch

chinmie said:


> The MK1 has warmer mids and treble, it's better for vocals and soft pop songs. the MK2 is more clear on the treble, more suitable for modern music


 btw mk1 soundsig its closer to vshaped like emx500 /ty hiz32 , it goes or bassier like vido or yincrowx6 ? its any earbud closer to mk1 so i could imagine the soundsig although it doesnt fully closer to the buds , i wanna hear about mk2 too if possible


----------



## chinmie

ichtch said:


> thanks!!! what foam do you use for mk1 and mk2? im planning to use hiegi full foam on mk1 im afraid it will makes the bass more bassy and bleeding to mid range



I'm using full hiegis on the MK2, and donut hiegis on MK1. 



ichtch said:


> btw mk1 soundsig its closer to vshaped like emx500 /ty hiz32 , it goes or bassier like vido or yincrowx6 ? its any earbud closer to mk1 so i could imagine the soundsig although it doesnt fully closer to the buds , i wanna hear about mk2 too if possible



MK1 and 2 have big bass and good soundstage, MK1 more like vidos, while MK2 more like EMX500


----------



## j4100

I know there is another place to ask questions, but since my question is specific to earbuds...

As a FiiO X5ii user, with the K300 Samsara on the way and who knows what else might appear with high impedance, is my best plan to get a Mojo (or similar dac/amp with high power output, or would I be ok with just having a high power) output amp alone. Would I really notice a huge benefit from having a better dac than the FiiO?

I don't see the point in upgrading the FiiO if adding a portable amp or dac/amp achieves the same result. I only play the files I load on the cards. I have no need for streaming services.

There are a few high impedance bud folks on here and I value you opinions. Thanks.


----------



## j4100 (Nov 15, 2017)

Just got a shipping notification for the Kinera buds.


----------



## acap13

j4100 said:


> I know there is another place to ask questions, but since my question is specific to earbuds...
> 
> As a FiiO X5ii user, with the K300 Samsara on the way and who knows what else might appear with high impedance, is my best plan to get a Mojo (or similar dac/amp with high power output, or would I be ok with just having a high power) output amp alone. Would I really notice a huge benefit from having a better dac than the FiiO?
> 
> ...



A really great high power amplifier would be enough than getting into Mojo teritory. I have Mojo but I think your Fiio is just as good as player/source can get. Get some amplifier with balanced out would yield much better upgrade than fork out another $600 for yet another dac/amp like Mojo. I think amps from iBasso  are great option and more cheaper than Mojo. Such as the ibasso PB3(full balanced) or any other portable you want to hook it up.IMHO


----------



## j4100

acap13 said:


> but I think your Fiio is just as good as player/source can get


Surprised you say that but good to hear.



acap13 said:


> ...Such as the ibasso PB3(full balanced) or any other portable you want to hook it up.IMHO



Not sure the PB3 has the power for a seahf 650 (for example). I'm trying to future-proof myself, should I decide in the future to but a bud like that. 

Many thanks for the reply.


----------



## acap13

j4100 said:


> Not sure the PB3 has the power for a seahf 650 (for example). I'm trying to future-proof myself, should I decide in the future to but a bud like that.
> 
> Many thanks for the reply.



No problem. I dont know if the PB3 would drive the Seahf 650 properly. From the specs, its a quite notorious earbud to drive. The PB3 however provides 2 times voltage and 4 times output power in balanced configuration compared to single ended. Probably, there are more higher output portable amps out there if anyone here have tried. I only have K500 with me now to test out of Mojo and my dap. Both of them could drive it properly but needs a serious power TBH. Personally, I think I would hold amps purchase until I finally need it one day.

But if you are contemplating an amp  and driving power is your priority, you can as well opt for desktop amplifier instead such as newly released Schiit Magni 3 or Audio GD NFB-1 AMP to name a few. Those are providing more than 1 watts of power and quite reachable price.


----------



## DBaldock9

jogawag said:


> Please fill in the evaluation of our OurArt Ti 7 in "Earbud Survey" of the link below.
> Please also evaluate after obtaining the next ToneKing TO 200.
> 
> https://goo.gl/forms/qnuPq59sxvTJj5kp1



I actually had you, and a couple of others, _Blocked_ during the time you took over the thread with posts about the survey.
Once the flurry of posts died down, I unblocked.


----------



## jogawag (Nov 15, 2017)

DBaldock9 said:


> I actually had you, and a couple of others, _Blocked_ during the time you took over the thread with posts about the survey.
> Once the flurry of posts died down, I unblocked.



Thank you so much.
But did you click "Submit" button at the lowest of edit page?
Because your vote to the "Ourart Ti7" is not reflected yet.
Really, this system block only in Calculate and Display time at result page *individually*....

Please  fill in the evaluation of our OurArt Ti 7 in "Earbud Survey" of the link below once more.
https://goo.gl/forms/qnuPq59sxvTJj5kp1


----------



## j4100

acap13 said:


> But if you are contemplating an amp  and driving power is your priority, you can as well opt for desktop amplifier instead such as newly released Schiit Magni 3 or Audio GD NFB-1 AMP to name a few. Those are providing more than 1 watts of power and quite reachable price.



I'll need a portable solution, as most of my listening will be when away from home.

At home, I run my pc through my M-DAC with aftermarket power supply via either headphones or out through my Densen Beat power amp and into Shahinian Arc speakers.


----------



## jogawag (Nov 15, 2017)

Although I tried variously as an earpiece of Moondrop Liebesleid, in the sense that the earpiece attached to Samsung R130 does not fall out of my ear, it is the most suitable so far ,,,
The sound quality is not bad either.


----------



## DBaldock9

jogawag said:


> Thank you so much.
> But did you click "Submit" button at the lowest of edit page?
> Because your vote to the "Ourart Ti7" is not reflected yet.
> Really, this system block only in Calculate and Display time at result page *individually*....
> ...



I'm not participating.


----------



## RodRevenge

Hey guys, today i woke up and tried to listen to some music with my faaeals 64ohms, and i noticed something was off with the sound, they sounded thin, i changed the song to a bassy one and i heard a clicking sound out of the left bud, im thinking about fixing it myself, any idea what could it be?


----------



## acap13

j4100 said:


> I'll need a portable solution, as most of my listening will be when away from home.
> 
> At home, I run my pc through my M-DAC with aftermarket power supply via either headphones or out through my Densen Beat power amp and into Shahinian Arc speakers.



You have a lovely audio equipment man. I adore that you have a speaker setup at home. I suppose you meant Audiolab M-Dac. That is one great dac/amp. 

I wish I'm a man of great wisdom but if I could suggest staying away from more than 300 ohm impedance earbuds would be more fitting as your X5 3rd gen could drive them all well and if you want to get those 600 ohm buds, your M-dac is ready to serve the purpose at home only ( other than your hp). IMHO I think most daps nowadays have no problem driving earbuds up to 300ohm alone without needing to stack with amps which can be a bit bulky for portable purpose. Sorry man if you find my alternative as not helping. Cheers


----------



## jogawag (Nov 15, 2017)

DBaldock9 said:


> I'm not participating.


It is a pity.

Edit:
I am sorry.
That time was under construction...


----------



## j4100

acap13 said:


> You have a lovely audio equipment man. I adore that you have a speaker setup at home. I suppose you meant Audiolab M-Dac. That is one great dac/amp.
> 
> I wish I'm a man of great wisdom but if I could suggest staying away from more than 300 ohm impedance earbuds would be more fitting as your X5 3rd gen could drive them all well and if you want to get those 600 ohm buds, your M-dac is ready to serve the purpose at home only ( other than your hp). IMHO I think most daps nowadays have no problem driving earbuds up to 300ohm alone without needing to stack with amps which can be a bit bulky for portable purpose. Sorry man if you find my alternative as not helping. Cheers



I got the M-DAC a year ago from someone who needed the cash! The Arcs are fantastic. They are well over 15 years old, since I could never afford the £6.5k for a new pair.

FYI - it's an X5ii 2nd gen I have. No, it's good advice, I just have the upgrade bug. I bought the Trinity Master earlier this year, and after struggling with getting any tips to fit my ears properly (even large JVC spiral dots only work on one ear) , plus general discomfort wearing them, I found this thread and started reading it a month or so ago and bought the three buds in my sig. I then went back a couple of 100 pages and got the bug reading all the posts, so splurged on 11.11. I then went back to early 2016 (page 300-odd) and I'm working my way through the posts. Some are quite funny or useful and I keep getting tempted to like or reply to these old posts, forgetting it's not the latest page I'm on! 

I'm hoping to calm down, though will be aiming for an endgame bud eventually. I'm currently in the "get an amp or amp/dac for the buds" mode - mainly as I spend a bit of time away from home, hence the requirement for a portable unit. I liked the write ups on the seahf 650 and the TY variant, so don't want to rule them out because I can't power them (or other such beasts).

There are quite a few guys on this thread who have owned these high impedance buds and was hoping to find out what portable amps they used, as not many folks bother with a gear sig.

Thanks again - and to any others who might offer amp advice. This is a great thread. Almost a shame there isn't a sub-forum for buds, as individual buds could have their own thread to save sifting through this behemoth.


----------



## springbay

j4100 said:


> ...
> 
> I'm hoping to calm down, though will be aiming for an endgame bud eventually. I'm currently in the "get an amp or amp/dac for the buds" mode - mainly as I spend a bit of time away from home, hence the requirement for a portable unit. I liked the write ups on the seahf 650 and the TY variant, so don't want to rule them out because I can't power them (or other such beasts).
> 
> ...



You should't worry too much about the amping part of earbuds. All of the high impedance buds I know of are really efficient. And the 650 ohm buds are only marginally harder to drive than the 300 ohm ones. The only pair of buds I have, that require some heavy duty amping *to sound good* are the VE Zen 2.0. I never use them with any other amp than the VE RA 2.0.

A dirt cheap Walnut will be powerful enough to drive any pair of buds (Zen 2.0 included, just will not sound that good).

My favorite stack is the XDuoo X3 / JAZZ R7.0 combo. I actually have two of those.
One stock firmware XDuoo X3 paired with a stock opamp JAZZ R7.0 combo and one Rockboxed XDuoo X3 paired with a Burson V5i-D opamp JAZZ R7.0.

Another sweet combo is the XDuoo X10T with digital in to my XDuoo XD-05 (with Burson V5i-D). Only problem is that the X10T don't do gapless and the XD-05 don't work in high gain with the Burson opamp. But then I don't need high gain on the that combo to properly drive any of my buds (Zen 2.0 excluded)...

None of the equipment above are particularly expensive, and can be found on various shopping sites with large discounts every now and then.

Btw, I list all my stuff in the profile page. It would be silly to put it all in the signature


----------



## RuFrost (Nov 15, 2017)

Please, guys, take a look at my thread - I created it specifically for the amps to drive high ohm earbuds!
Please, share your impressions and thoughts there - what matches what etc...
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wha...price-range-to-drive-high-ohm-earbuds.865192/

I'm asking for your advice there as well!


----------



## Yobster69

RuFrost said:


> Please, guys, take a look at my thread - I created it specifically for the amps to drive high ohm earbuds!
> Please, share your impressions and thoughts there - what matches what etc...
> 
> I'm asking for your advice there as well!


Please link the thread and I am sure people will take a look and participate.


----------



## RuFrost

Yobster69 said:


> Please link the thread and I am sure people will take a look and participate.


just did it))


----------



## euge

jogawag said:


> Although I tried variously as an earpiece of Moondrop Liebesleid, in the sense that the earpiece attached to Samsung R130 does not fall out of my ear, it is the most suitable so far ,,,
> The sound quality is not bad either.



Seems like the liebesleids fit isn't great for a 200$+ earbud you've been trying all sorts of methods :/


----------



## j4100

springbay said:


> You should't worry too much about the amping part of earbuds. All of the high impedance buds I know of are really efficient. And the 650 ohm buds are only marginally harder to drive than the 300 ohm ones. The only pair of buds I have, that require some heavy duty amping *to sound good* are the VE Zen 2.0. I never use them with any other amp than the VE RA 2.0.



That might put my mind at rest and let me get on with things. Thanks for the recommendations.



springbay said:


> Btw, I list all my stuff in the profile page. It would be silly to put it all in the signature


Naturally 

I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

PS. Have you found your endgame bud yet?


----------



## chinmie

jogawag said:


> Although I tried variously as an earpiece of Moondrop Liebesleid, in the sense that the earpiece attached to Samsung R130 does not fall out of my ear, it is the most suitable so far ,,,
> The sound quality is not bad either.



have you tried the rubber ring and foam combo, or the earhooks (with the hooks cut off) and foam combo?

using the liebesleid with that samsung R130 silicon... won't it compromise the bass and soundstage? the liebesleid is already bass shy as it is, I'm curious how it would sound with that silicon


----------



## jogawag (Nov 15, 2017)

chinmie said:


> have you tried the rubber ring and foam combo, or the earhooks (with the hooks cut off) and foam combo?
> 
> using the liebesleid with that samsung R130 silicon... won't it compromise the bass and soundstage? the liebesleid is already bass shy as it is, I'm curious how it would sound with that silicon



It may be only a symptom of my ear, but I could not fix it with RubberRing.
I did not try EarHook because I do not like it.

I did not feel the bass reduction or the sound stage deteriorated by the Samsung R130 SiliconPad (about $ 5, so if you get a chance, try it out).
I feel like listening to Liebesleid half an InnerEar.
By fixing the liebesleid with the SiliconPad to my ears, I am able to walk around along with listening to music.


----------



## jant71 (Nov 15, 2017)

Another cheapie but anyone wanna try the Memt X6:










And more pricey NiceHCK EBX:


----------



## waynes world

jant71 said:


> Another cheapie but anyone wanna try the Memt X6:



Only if they look black like this!:





They look nice actually, but I think I'll let someone else be the guinea pig


----------



## vladstef

jant71 said:


> Another cheapie but anyone wanna try the Memt X6:



Love that the driver is enclosed from the front as well, this is a DIY dream earbud, extracting this driver is probably the easiest thing ever, but let's see if it's worth it.


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> Only if they look black like this!:
> 
> 
> 
> They look nice actually, but I think I'll let someone else be the guinea pig


Dat grille :O

Looks like a speciality earbud grille and very open for a single driver.

Interesting though


----------



## seanc6441

Good thing about the new monk foams I got is that they perfectly lie between the heigi/full and thin monks so they ended up being perfect as donut foams for my shozy stardust.

But I’ll still need to source a pack or two of the older versions because those are indispensable foams.


----------



## jogawag (Nov 15, 2017)

jant71 said:


> Another cheapie but anyone wanna try the Memt X6:


I have this white version of Memt X6.
However, I felt that this was not enough treble for me, so I am selling it on my country's C2C site.
But at Amazon, the rating is very high.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Good thing about the new monk foams I got is that they perfectly lie between the heigi/full and thin monks so they ended up being perfect as donut foams for my shozy stardust.
> 
> But I’ll still need to source a pack or two of the older versions because those are indispensable foams.



For some stuff, things should just stay the same (ie Monk foams, and shoes lol)


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> For some stuff, things should just stay the same (ie Monk foams, and shoes lol)


The new foams are awesome middle ground, but replacing the old foams is bad news. We need these + old thins in one pack I’d buy many of them.

Seriously the newer foams are really good if you find heigi full too thick and lack clarity, but monk thin makes your earbud too treble heavy.


----------



## HungryPanda

I just received the Nicehck EBX earbuds today. Burning them in right now as I'm going to bed. All I can say is they are very well built, quite heavy so haven't decided how to wear them yet, down or over ear. First listen good bass but quite bright. That was before I fiddled with the fit then it balanced out. Will see how they perform after a good burn in.


----------



## DBaldock9

DBaldock9 said:


> The OurArt Ti7 that I ordered from Penon Audio, arrived yesterday.
> 
> I listened for a while with the stock cable, connected to my iFi Micro iDSD (XBass=On; 3D HolographicSound=On), streaming audio from my Roku 4, and they sounded good and clear, with a bit of a Midrange & Treble emphasis.
> 
> ...



One thing I did find out, is that the MMCX connectors used on the VE Espresso 2.5mm TRRS > MMCX cable, will not plug in far enough for the GND ring to engage on the Ti7 earbuds.
I had ordered several types of MMCX connectors from AliExpress, so I've replaced the stock connectors with some that have a little bit longer plug assembly, which _latches_ securely - but they seem to have a slightly loose GND ring, causing intermittent audio dropouts.

The stock cable (3.5mm TRS > MMCX) that came with the Ti7, required that I use the scissors on my pocket knife, to pry the MMCX connectors off of the earbuds.  Pulling with my fingers and fingernails, was just beginning to loosen the rubber insulation on the MMCX plugs.  I was concerned that I was going to destroy a plug, or pull the MMCX socket out of the earbud housing.

The much more expensive ($10 each) MMCX connectors from Eidolic, which are used on my Impact Audio Cable, work just fine.  So, i may order a couple of sets of those, to use on my other cables.


----------



## j4100

After plugging my Shozy BKs into my M-DAC,  I realise I have 2 problems. First is easy. The cheapo 3.5mm to 6.3mm adapter I have is crap (bought in UK) and I need a new one. 2nd problem is the cable is too short 

Anyone use extension cables for buds?  Drawbacks? My chair at the pc is just too far from the M-DAC and never the twain shall meet. I usually use my DT150s.

I did notice mention of an Erqu bud with a 2m cable in this thread last year, but see that is no longer available.


----------



## RuFrost

j4100 said:


> After plugging my Shozy BKs into my M-DAC,  I realise I have 2 problems. First is easy. The cheapo 3.5mm to 6.3mm adapter I have is crap (bought in UK) and I need a new one. 2nd problem is the cable is too short
> 
> Anyone use extension cables for buds?  Drawbacks? My chair at the pc is just too far from the M-DAC and never the twain shall meet. I usually use my DT150s.
> 
> I did notice mention of an Erqu bud with a 2m cable in this thread last year, but see that is no longer available.


1) Cables change the sound. Extension cables are cables, so they change or at least, influence sound as well. In Shozy cable itself is very expensive - probably around 120$. This is why some users says that graphene mx 760 sounds very very similar to Shozy stardust and frequency graphes almost matches. Drivers could be the same. So if you use cheap extention cable, you can kill the joy or reduce its fullness.
2) I have heard from different sellers and audiophiles in Russian world and English, that adapters i.e. 3.5-6.3mm plug do not influence sound at all, if there is no cables.
3) So probably, better to put your m-dac closer to you so that the cable's length will be enough)  
imho


----------



## Danneq

j4100 said:


> I did notice mention of an Erqu bud with a 2m cable in this thread last year, but see that is no longer available.



I think you're talking about Erqu EQ100. I sold my pair. The cable is about 20-30 cm longer than regular cables, so it must be around 150 cm instead of around 120...


----------



## acap13

RuFrost said:


> 1) Cables change the sound. Extension cables are cables, so they change or at least, influence sound as well. In Shozy cable itself is very expensive - probably around 120$. This is why some users says that graphene mx 760 sounds very very similar to Shozy stardust and frequency graphes almost matches. Drivers could be the same. So if you use cheap extention cable, you can kill the joy or reduce its fullness.
> 2) I have heard from different sellers and audiophiles in Russian world and English, that adapters i.e. 3.5-6.3mm plug do not influence sound at all, if there is no cables.
> 3) So probably, better to put your m-dac closer to you so that the cable's length will be enough)
> imho



Agreed to all.


----------



## kurtextrem

To be honest, I don't think that a 0,5 or 1,0 meter cable changes sound. 
That's literally no distance for a signal and the "technology" (or rather material) in such cables is not a world changer; There are inferior cheap cables ofc, but transporting an audio signal over such short distance it not a hard task to achieve.


----------



## j4100

RuFrost said:


> 1) Cables change the sound. Extension cables are cables, so they change or at least, influence sound as well.


Thanks, I guessed that might be the case.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 16, 2017)

RuFrost said:


> 1) Cables change the sound. Extension cables are cables, so they change or at least, influence sound as well. In Shozy cable itself is very expensive - probably around 120$. This is why some users says that graphene mx 760 sounds very very similar to Shozy stardust and frequency graphes almost matches. Drivers could be the same. So if you use cheap extention cable, you can kill the joy or reduce its fullness.
> 2) I have heard from different sellers and audiophiles in Russian world and English, that adapters i.e. 3.5-6.3mm plug do not influence sound at all, if there is no cables.
> 3) So probably, better to put your m-dac closer to you so that the cable's length will be enough)
> imho


I doubt the drivers are the same, if shozy are saying these things have limited stock and cannot meet demand even at a cool $150 per bud, I cannot see the diy graphene being able to sell in such quantity at $20.

Unless of course shozy did not buy up all the drivers... But I really doubt it’s the exact same driver, plus graphs aren’t everything in relation to how the earbud sounds, butI guess I’ll find out when i get my graphene and compare it to my BK. Although if your point is graph’s show the driver alone COULD be the same then I guess graph’s make it plausible. I’ll compare soon anyway 

Also unless that cable is changing the impendance drastically I’m probably in the ‘cables don’t make a noticeable difference’ camp... for now. Unless of course said cable is absolutely rubbish/faulty and the signal is being distrupted somehow.

Maybe I’m wrong though, i’ll have to wait until I receive a cheapo $5 cable for my masya and compare it to the stock ‘hifi’ branded masya cable.


----------



## seanc6441

I found the perfect solution for my pk2 mod.

Sugru!
  

As you can see I semi blocked the top vent, left 3 opening ports. Centre, Left and Right.

(Don’t mind the bottom piece I filled, I drilled a vent too many and had to block it  )


----------



## DBaldock9 (Nov 16, 2017)

j4100 said:


> After plugging my Shozy BKs into my M-DAC,  I realise I have 2 problems. First is easy. The cheapo 3.5mm to 6.3mm adapter I have is crap (bought in UK) and I need a new one. 2nd problem is the cable is too short
> 
> Anyone use extension cables for buds?  Drawbacks? My chair at the pc is just too far from the M-DAC and never the twain shall meet. I usually use my DT150s.
> 
> I did notice mention of an Erqu bud with a 2m cable in this thread last year, but see that is no longer available.




I recently built a couple of 4-ft extension cables, with PAPRI 8-Strand Trenzado Teflon OCC Copper Wire, to use at home.

The first is a 2.5mm TRRS Plug to 2.5mm TRRS Jack (shown here before the final assembly of the plug shell).



The second is a 3.5mm TRS Plug to 3.5mm TRS Jack.



They're assembled using quality plugs & jacks, and work well to extend my earbud & earphone cables.


----------



## seanc6441

DBaldock9 said:


> I recently built a couple of 4-ft extension cables, with PAPRI 8-Strand Trenzado Teflon OCC Copper Wire, to use at home.
> 
> The first is a 2.5mm TRRS Plug to 2.5mm TRRS Jack (shown here before the final assembly of the plug shell).
> 
> ...


Well they look wonderful, exquisite workmanship


----------



## theoutsider

DBaldock9 said:


> One thing I did find out, is that the MMCX connectors use
> The much more expensive ($10 each) MMCX connectors from Eidolic, which are used on my Impact Audio Cable


Hows the mmcx connectors on your svara and daik? Are they just as tight? I suspect to200 inherits the mmcx from ty2 pro and the mmcx connectors on to200 are super tight. I had to force it loose and i was really worried because some transparent plastics are wrapping the mmcx metal connectors. They look and feel fragile to me.

Anyhow i ordered a 3.5mm mmcx cable from nicehck (the new 15usd version of the his house brand) to prepare myself for the hy1000 fangzhang 方丈 that i ordered recently from taobao. I hope they fit together nicely. The stock cable of hy1000 has memory ends to conform to different ears, just like those shure iem cables.


----------



## HungryPanda

The Svara Red connectors are easy to take off


----------



## DeltaRay

acap13 said:


> Glad you enjoy them. Whats your first impression on each of the earbuds?
> 
> Btw, if you feel stock foam is obtrusive for Graphene, you may try monk+ thin foam and see how it goes.



By best to worst fit: pk2 > nameless > graphene

As what others have mentioned,

Graphene sounds bright, but very neutral, widest range imo

Nameless is more easy when it comes to highs, tho bass suffers abit. but i prefer them for longer use as it is less fatiguing.

PK2 i'm abit mixed, they are good, but lack the sound staging when going up against the nameless & graphene.

I've tried heigi donuts vs thick foams, heigi seems to help deliver more bass? not sure if its bias on my end?


----------



## Ira Delphic

seanc6441 said:


> I doubt the drivers are the same,* if shozy are saying these things have limited stock and cannot meet demand *even at a cool $150 per bud, I cannot see the diy graphene being able to sell in such quantity at $20.
> 
> Unless of course shozy did not buy up all the drivers... But I really doubt it’s the exact same driver, plus graphs aren’t everything in relation to how the earbud sounds, butI guess I’ll find out when i get my graphene and compare it to my BK. Although if your point is graph’s show the driver alone COULD be the same then I guess graph’s make it plausible. I’ll compare soon anyway...



IMO Shozy is doing some clever marketing. Remember how they claimed the Shozy Cygnus driver was NOS - new old stock - supply limited and once they are gone that's it?  Years later, for US$89 there's still an abundent supply of  the Cygnus. Create artificial shortage and watch the sales increase.


----------



## golov17

DeltaRay said:


> Nameless is more easy when it comes to highs, tho bass suffers abit. but i prefer them for longer use as it is less fatiguing


 agreed


----------



## theoutsider

golov17 said:


> agreed


I second that.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 16, 2017)

jogawag said:


> I have this white version of Memt X6.
> However, I felt that this was not enough treble for me, so I am selling it on my country's C2C site.
> But at Amazon, the rating is very high.



I am interested in the red Memt X6 BECAUSE it is red   Other than not enough treble quantity how was the sound?

I do not require a lot of treble.


----------



## jogawag (Nov 16, 2017)

mbwilson111 said:


> I am interested in the red Memt X6 BECAUSE it is red   Other than not enough treble quantity how was the sound?
> 
> I do not require a lot of treble.


I feel that the sound quality of MEMT X6 is merely a lack of elongation of treble, mid-low sound is sufficient, especially bass sounds good sound.
I feel it fits perfectly for you.
I used VE thin earpad.


----------



## mbwilson111

jogawag said:


> I feel that the sound quality of MEMT X6 is merely a lack of elongation of treble, mid-low sound is sufficient, especially bass sounds good sound.
> I feel it fits perfectly for you.
> I used VE thin earpad.



Thank you.  I should have asked about fit.  Monks are difficult for me as they fall out ... or at least they shift which changes the sound so it would be best if the MEMT X6 is smaller than a Monk.


----------



## jogawag

mbwilson111 said:


> Thank you.  I should have asked about fit.  Monks are difficult for me as they fall out ... or at least they shift which changes the sound so it would be best if the MEMT X6 is smaller than a Monk.


It's OK.
The size of MEMT X6 is smaller than MX500 type, and maybe a little smaller than PK type.


----------



## rkw

j4100 said:


> Anyone use extension cables for buds?  Drawbacks? My chair at the pc is just too far from the M-DAC and never the twain shall meet.


I have a 6.5mm TRS extension cable that I have used with both buds and full-size headphones, and not noticed any effect on sound quality. You'll be fine, especially with a desktop unit like M-DAC and 6.5mm extension cable.

buds > 6.5mm adapter (or full size headphone) > 6.5mm TRS extension cable > amp


----------



## j4100

rkw said:


> I have a 6.5mm TRS extension cable that I have used with both buds and full-size headphones, and not noticed any effect on sound quality. You'll be fine, especially with a desktop unit like M-DAC and 6.5mm extension cable.
> 
> buds > 6.5mm adapter (or full size headphone) > 6.5mm TRS extension cable > amp



Great idea. I'll look for one, as it double as an extension for my cans. Thanks.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 16, 2017)

jogawag said:


> It's OK.
> The size of MEMT X6 is smaller than MX500 type, and maybe a little smaller than PK type.



Wow!  I think I need this!

Editing to add:  does anyone have a good link for this?  NiceHCK doesn't seem to have it.


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> I got mine from Jim NICEHCK. I like the 32 ohm one as it sounds good on my phone and daps, the 64 ohm one is better but needs amped and this 150 ohm one is best of all but does need a bit of juice



150's in the house! Had them in my ears for 5 minutes naked, but I can tell that they are indeed winners - thanks for the recommendation!

I'll be trying them with various foams. Which foams do you prefer with them? Also, any changes with burn in? Thanks!


----------



## eaglesgift

waynes world said:


> Had them in my ears for 5 minutes naked


Have some decorum man - put some clothes on when you're trying out new earbuds!


----------



## waynes world (Nov 16, 2017)

eaglesgift said:


> Have some decorum man - put some clothes on when you're trying out new earbuds!



Lol! Covered up now!



waynes world said:


> 150's in the house! Had them in my ears for 5 minutes naked, but I can tell that they are indeed winners - thanks for the recommendation!
> 
> I'll be trying them with various foams. Which foams do you prefer with them? Also, any changes with burn in? Thanks!



I tried the supplied full foams, but whoa, the bass was too elevated for my ears. Switched to the monk+ thin foams, and whoa, this might be a match made in heaven 

Edit: they are sounding rather glorious off of my phone as well - bonus!


----------



## SweetEars

someoen explain to me?

i ran those youtube tests on sub bass on the emx500. after a while the emx 500 became more clear or pronounced sound. Is this called Burn in?


----------



## waynes world

SweetEars said:


> someoen explain to me?
> 
> i ran those youtube tests on sub bass on the emx500. after a while the emx 500 became more clear or pronounced sound. Is this called Burn in?



Yes, either physical burn in or brain burn in or both 

How long did you run those tests?


----------



## SweetEars

waynes world said:


> Yes, either physical burn in or brain burn in or both
> 
> How long did you run those tests?


not long, just few mins... a very low sub bass test in youtube


----------



## waynes world

SweetEars said:


> not long, just few mins... a very low sub bass test in youtube



If the gear responds to burn in, it typically takes 24, 48, 150 hours (depending on the gear) for there to be any effect, so it would be odd for a few minutes to effect them. Did you switch foams, or have a glass of wine, or anything?


----------



## SweetEars

waynes world said:


> If the gear responds to burn in, it typically takes 24, 48, 150 hours (depending on the gear) for there to be any effect, so it would be odd for a few minutes to effect them. Did you switch foams, or have a glass of wine, or anything?


switched foams yes.....


----------



## waynes world

SweetEars said:


> switched foams yes.....



Ok, that's called "foam-in" 

Seriously though, different foams can make a huge difference.


----------



## DBaldock9

cursing said:


> Hows the mmcx connectors on your svara and daik? Are they just as tight? I suspect to200 inherits the mmcx from ty2 pro and the mmcx connectors on to200 are super tight. I had to force it loose and i was really worried because some transparent plastics are wrapping the mmcx metal connectors. They look and feel fragile to me.
> 
> Anyhow i ordered a 3.5mm mmcx cable from nicehck (the new 15usd version of the his house brand) to prepare myself for the hy1000 fangzhang 方丈 that i ordered recently from taobao. I hope they fit together nicely. The stock cable of hy1000 has memory ends to conform to different ears, just like those shure iem cables.



The MMCX plugs on the cable that came with the Ti7, seems to connect & disconnect with _normal force_ on my other earbuds & earphones - so it must be the Ti7 MMCX jacks that are tight.

I've got some MMCX plugs with a "Split GND", rather than a "Floating GND Ring". They are snug on my other devices, but I'm afraid to try and plug them all the way in to the Ti7.
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1e6YL...ATL-Style-For-MMCX-UM60-UE900-SE535-SE215.jpg

I'm going to put a set of them on my VE Espresso cable.


----------



## DBaldock9

DBaldock9 said:


> The OurArt Ti7 that I ordered from Penon Audio, arrived yesterday.
> 
> I listened for a while with the stock cable, connected to my iFi Micro iDSD (XBass=On; 3D HolographicSound=On), streaming audio from my Roku 4, and they sounded good and clear, with a bit of a Midrange & Treble emphasis.
> 
> ...



I can report that the Bass quantity and impact have improved, after listening to the Ti7 for a couple of days.
Right now, they're connected to my Cayin N3, which is receiving streamed YouTube audio, via Bluetooth (so, it's standard SBC encoding).


----------



## jogawag

mbwilson111 said:


> Wow!  I think I need this!
> 
> Editing to add:  does anyone have a good link for this?  NiceHCK doesn't seem to have it.


https://aliexpress.com/item//32836595258.html


----------



## theoutsider

DBaldock9 said:


> The MMCX plugs on the cable that came with the Ti7, seems to connect & disconnect with _normal force_ on my other earbuds & earphones - so it must be the Ti7 MMCX jacks that are tight.
> 
> I've got some MMCX plugs with a "Split GND", rather than a "Floating GND Ring". They are snug on my other devices, but I'm afraid to try and plug them all the way in to the Ti7.
> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1e6YL...ATL-Style-For-MMCX-UM60-UE900-SE535-SE215.jpg
> ...


Maybe the dimensions of Ti7's jacks are on the lower side. Your Ti7 sounds quite fragile to me and yes the split MMCX design makes a lot of sense.

I was actually thinking of getting MMCX 2.5mm trrs from VE since they can be had for about 13usd shipped. I considered the SPC cable because it looks more durable and I don't like braided cables. Two things held me back from getting it: 
1. I don't have a player with balanced output and I read someone complaining about the hissing noise on his Walnut F1 (was about 20usd and I considered getting one but spent the money on an opamp instead) 
2. The black wire jacket of the SPC cable looks thick to me, maybe it is meant to be worn over the ears?

https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1jCOX...dth=800&hash=34a47f0be89d5a241d6197bc8ed14fd2


----------



## SweetEars (Nov 19, 2017)

just got the RY4S with dark braided cable

initial impression is positive. i will do a comparison with EMX500

Th  following sound charactistics are present and noticeable in both > what it means is that its present and not absent

the following is comparison of 2 earbuds. As a standalone each of them are good , very good for their price level .

_> means  Better , < lesser and = Same_

Treble  : RY4S < EMX 500
*Sparkle *: RY4S < EMX 500
Mid      : RY4S <  EMX500
*Mid Bass*    : RY4S > Emx500
*Sub Bass* : RY4S = EMX500
*Clarity* : RY4S > EMX500
*Layering* : RY4S =  EMX 500
Transparency: RY4S < EMX500
*Vocals* : RY4S < EMX500
*Articulation*: RY4S < EMX500
Musicality: RY4S < EMX500
Attack and Impact  : RY4S < EMX500
Detail Reprodution : RY4S > EMX 500
*Reverb / Decay : RY4S < EMX500*

*Soundstage *

Accuracy / Positioning: RY4S > EMX500
Depth: RY4S < EMX500
Width : RY4S <  EMX500
Height: RY4S > EMX500
Reverb, Accoustics: RY4S < EMX500
Ambience : RY4S =  EMX500
Resolution: RY4S > EMX500
Positioning: RY4S > EMX500
Airiness : RY4S =  EMX500
3D Air Space : RY4S ( More Left right, Up down )  , EMX500 = ( More forward back , deeper)
Sound movement : RY4S < EMX500

The main way EMX500 is better is sparkle ,    and aural / background acoustics which makes it better with more musicality and articulation due its reverb, depth and high-low articulation space. Some deficiencies in the RY4S (  a little less detail in sub bass, depth ect) makes it a little less engaging in sound than the EMX500 on certain recordings of poor source or olden style music

The EMX 500 seems to have a better depth soundstage at the expense of a little clarity in mids and bass  but makes it up with Impact/attack and musicality due to its excellent sparkle airyness and sub bass extension combined with articulation. THe RY4S is almost similar but in a different way. Poor quality sources show up as poor and high quality source sound gets reproduced better. while the EMX500 does poor quality source reproduction better.

The main way RY4S  is better in sound presentation being clinical and little flat or neutral / lack of colouration in the soundstage which makes it better in sound reproduction and clarity and positioning from a good clean/pure source. Its less harsh and less fatiguing than EMX500 to listen to mainly due to less distortion and slightly rolled off treble and less sparkle. However, there is enough treble and sparkle on its own. Soundstage depth is less prominent  if these aspects are improved, the RY4S can beat the EMX 500

However, these sonic differences between the 2 are subtle except for the sparkle,  soundstage , Impact and Attack. This may change as the RY4S gets burned in


----------



## HungryPanda

jogawag said:


> https://aliexpress.com/item//32836595258.html


I just ordered these from AK Audio on aliexpress last night


----------



## jogawag

SweetEars said:


> just got the RY4S with dark braided cable
> 
> initial impression is positive. i will do a comparison with EMX500
> 
> ...



I also bought RS4S at the same time, but I have not received it yet.
Your evaluation is pretty good Earbuds.


----------



## SweetEars (Nov 17, 2017)

jogawag said:


> I also bought RS4S at the same time, but I have not received it yet.
> Your evaluation is pretty good Earbuds.


 well it hasnt burned in yet....so far pretty positive a bit forward sound signature , ; EMX more outside  in the head.


----------



## SweetEars

jogawag said:


> I also bought RS4S at the same time, but I have not received it yet.
> Your evaluation is pretty good Earbuds.





jogawag said:


> I also bought RS4S at the same time, but I have not received it yet.
> Your evaluation is pretty good Earbuds.



Try this and see


----------



## kurtextrem

I've seen people talk about EMX700 being complementary to Shozy Stardust (in terms of what Stardust lacks or has less of a strength in, EMX700 has it?) - which not so cheap earbuds are also a side-grade from Stardust? (I have Asura 2.0 & Svara-L already and I guess would prefer an earbud from TY Hi-Z / Seahf / K's)
Or would you guys even wait for Monk Lite / Asura Lite?

Thanks in advance


----------



## jogawag

SweetEars said:


> Try this and see




I've listened to it on Liebesleid because RY4S is not yet available, but it's a good movie sound with great bass.


----------



## SweetEars

jogawag said:


> I've listened to it on Liebesleid because RY4S is not yet available, but it's a good movie sound with great bass.



this clip will better show the differences between EMX 500 and the R4YS


----------



## jogawag

SweetEars said:


> this clip will better show the differences between EMX 500 and the R4YS


When I get R4YS, I will try this with EMX500 and the R4YS.


----------



## jogawag

kurtextrem said:


> I've seen people talk about EMX700 being complementary to Shozy Stardust (in terms of what Stardust lacks or has less of a strength in, EMX700 has it?) - which not so cheap earbuds are also a side-grade from Stardust? (I have Asura 2.0 & Svara-L already and I guess would prefer an earbud from TY Hi-Z / Seahf / K's)
> Or would you guys even wait for Monk Lite / Asura Lite?
> 
> Thanks in advance



Does your "EMX700" mean "DIY Graphene MX760" ?


----------



## kurtextrem

jogawag said:


> Does your "EMX700" mean "DIY Graphene MX760" ?


Ah no, my bad. I meant EMX500 (Fengru diy emx500)


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> I just ordered these from AK Audio on aliexpress last night



Who did you order them for?  lol


----------



## seanc6441

kurtextrem said:


> I've seen people talk about EMX700 being complementary to Shozy Stardust (in terms of what Stardust lacks or has less of a strength in, EMX700 has it?) - which not so cheap earbuds are also a side-grade from Stardust? (I have Asura 2.0 & Svara-L already and I guess would prefer an earbud from TY Hi-Z / Seahf / K's)
> Or would you guys even wait for Monk Lite / Asura Lite?
> 
> Thanks in advance


EMX500 and stardust are nothing a like. The stardust is a much more nuanced, balanced and finesse earbud whereas EMX500 is bigger soundstage and emphasised sound in bass and treble. It's not a close contest until you try EDM/Sounstrack music where the massive soundstage of the emx500 shines. The Rose Masya is more akin to the EMX500 in terms of soundstage and presentation but with superior mids and vocal clarity.

It's the mx760 graphene/diy graphene that people associate with the Stardust because the graph's show a very similar FR curve. So it's possible they sound very similar but some people have said this isn't the case (while a review on headfi suggested they are). I'll be comparing them both soon.


----------



## DBaldock9

kurtextrem said:


> I've seen people talk about EMX700 being complementary to Shozy Stardust (in terms of what Stardust lacks or has less of a strength in, EMX700 has it?) - which not so cheap earbuds are also a side-grade from Stardust? (I have Asura 2.0 & Svara-L already and I guess would prefer an earbud from TY Hi-Z / Seahf / K's)
> Or would you guys even wait for Monk Lite / Asura Lite?
> 
> Thanks in advance



I really like the overall _balanced sound_ (good low Bass impact, clear Midrange, and detailed Treble) of my K's 500 v2 (2.5mm TRRS Balanced) earbuds.


----------



## waynes world (Nov 17, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> It's the mx760 graphene/diy graphene that people associate with the Stardust because the graph's show a very similar FR curve. So it's possible they sound very similar but some people have said this isn't the case (while a review on headfi suggested they are)*. I'll be comparing them both soon.*




Taking your sweet time, aren't you?


----------



## HungryPanda

mbwilson111 said:


> Who did you order them for?  lol


Why you of course


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> Why you of course



...and I can hardly wait for them to arrive....and the graphene.  My collection will be complete.  I will not need more.  The house is overflowing with gear and it is all headfi's fault...


----------



## theoutsider (Nov 17, 2017)

mbwilson111 said:


> ...and I can hardly wait for them to arrive....and the graphene.  My collection will be complete.  I will not need more.  The house is overflowing with gear and it is all headfi's fault...


another case... you need another earbud case... completion is an illusion...


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 17, 2017)

waynes world said:


> Taking your sweet time, aren't you?


Can't review what I don't have 

Tell Jim to speed up my graphene delivery  ... Hold up, tracking says it has arrived at my local post today, should get it by tomorrow then woohoo!!!

Wait tomorrow is saturday I probably won't have it until monday... lol


----------



## kurtextrem

seanc6441 said:


> EMX500 and stardust are nothing a like. The stardust is a much more nuanced, balanced and finesse earbud whereas EMX500 is bigger soundstage and emphasised sound in bass and treble. It's not a close contest until you try EDM/Sounstrack music where the massive soundstage of the emx500 shines. The Rose Masya is more akin to the EMX500 in terms of soundstage and presentation but with superior mids and vocal clarity.


So you'd recommend Masya as sidegrade? I've seen a review about TY Hi-Z F300M that says it's pretty close to Masya


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 17, 2017)

kurtextrem said:


> So you'd recommend Masya as sidegrade? I've seen a review about TY Hi-Z F300M that says it's pretty close to Masya


No the Masya is superior to the EMX500 in resolution, smoothness and vocal clarity so caling it a side grade would be misleading. But they both extend well, have large soundstages (EMX500 slightly larger stage, Masya better imaging). The one notable difference in sound signature is that the masya has a vocal emphasis putting them slighty forward. Th EMX500 has slightly recessed vocals and mid range is weaker in detail.

The Masya has a big sound but also an intimate vocal and mid presentation. EMX500 has a big sound but lacks the mid range quality of the masya so is more suited to EDM/atmospheric music opposed to vocals/acoustic etc.

I've never heard the F300M so can't comment on that one.

The EMX 500 is to the Masya what the DIY PK2 is to the Stardust. A budget variant with a similar sound presentation but lacking on the finer details.

However I would say the EMX500 can handle more genre's than the DIY pk2 because of it's soundstage and superior bass extension. But the treble, mid range and timbre is better on the DIY pk2.

Honestly I think the Cygnus best fills the middle ground between TOTL and mid range/budget earbud, but only if you can get it at a good price, at €70 it's expensive but I got mine for under €40 second hand.


----------



## seanc6441

Masya is really good if you find a good pairing because its quiet source dependant. On my iphone 6s vocals sound thin/watery. On my laptop the thicken slighty with more body and eveything becomes balanced and very very smooth. It sound's wonderful if paired right (and you get the right fit in your ear which can be tricky)

I had to use all sort's of foams to get the fit/sound right. Thick foams kill the clarity (same with shozy buds) but you need a donut over a monk thin foam to stop it from falling from your ear and to tame it's treble peak.


----------



## mbwilson111

cursing said:


> another case... you need another earbud case... completion is an illusion...



You probably remember when I posted the pictures of my two bags of buds and iems about a month ago.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1601#post-13800431

At that time I said I did not have enough for a third case and that I never would....although I already did have some in bags in a drawer at that time   Well... the third case arrived 8 days ago.  How did that happen?  Also got a few more little colored cases for them and made labels to stick on them  That was my project last weekend and here is the result.  The middle case is full of buds.  Only the two pockets are empty so I only have room for the two (memt and graphene) that are on the way. The two cases to each side are all iems.  Yikes!


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> You probably remember when I posted the pictures of my two bags of buds and iems about a month ago.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1601#post-13800431
> 
> At that time I said I did not have enough for a third case and that I never would....although I already did have some in bags in a drawer at that time   Well... the third case arrived 8 days ago.  How did that happen?  Also got a few more little colored cases for them and made labels to stick on them  That was my project last weekend and here is the result.  The middle case is full of buds.  Only the two pockets are empty so I only have room for the two (memt and graphene) that are on the way. The two cases to each side are all iems.  Yikes!



Kudos on your organisational skills! I can only dream...


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Kudos on your organisational skills! I can only dream...



Well... if only I had a place to actually put those bags and all the headphone cases...lol  I did not show you  photos of my rooms...


----------



## jogawag (Nov 17, 2017)

mbwilson111 said:


> Well... if only I had a place to actually put those bags and all the headphone cases...lol  I did not show you  photos of my rooms...


Please rate(1-5) the many earbuds and write them in the "Earbud Survey".
*The ratings becomes Ranking, and Ranking is a reference for everyone to buy Earbuds.*
→　https://goo.gl/forms/qnuPq59sxvTJj5kp1


----------



## theoutsider

mbwilson111 said:


> You probably remember when I posted the pictures of my two bags of buds and iems about a month ago.


You won my praise for your incredible housekeeping skill


----------



## theoutsider (Nov 17, 2017)

mbwilson111 said:


> Well... if only I had a place to actually put those bags and all the headphone cases...lol  I did not show you  photos of my rooms...


... No, I don't want to look at your room


----------



## theoutsider (Nov 17, 2017)

mbwilson111 BTW, how's Pmv B01?


----------



## jogawag (Nov 17, 2017)

cursing said:


> mbwilson111 BTW, how's Pmv B01?


I feel that Pmv B01 sounds clear and good balanced.


----------



## mbwilson111

cursing said:


> mbwilson111 BTW, how's Pmv B01?



I got too many too fast to answer that right now.  I will try to use it this weekend and get back to you.  There was a day when five arrived all at once.


----------



## phthora

DBaldock9 said:


> I really like the overall _balanced sound_ (good low Bass impact, clear Midrange, and detailed Treble) of my K's 500 v2 (2.5mm TRRS Balanced) earbuds.



Are you able to run those okay with your DP-X1? I've never tried anything that high impedance with that DAP.


----------



## jogawag (Nov 17, 2017)

phthora said:


> Are you able to run those okay with your DP-X1? I've never tried anything that high impedance with that DAP.


 I also have never tried anything that over 160 ohm high impedance with my DP-X1.
I do not have over 160 ohm earphone because I want to use it on my smartphone also.


----------



## Saoshyant

I enjoyed the result of Yinman 600 with Opus #1.  Well, I respected what the Y600 was capable of, but it did not match my tastes enough to keep.

Kind of off topic, but having received my Massdrop Porta Pro, I immediately went for a quick listen to some Pink Floyd.  Earbuds have spoiled me too much, as I had fond memories of my old Porta Pro I gave way to a friend, but this to my ears feels veiled/dulled.  It's been several years since I last owned a legit one.  I do imagine with time I'll readjust to the sound and appreciate it more, but for now, both Rose Tech & Cypherus Audio have somewhat spoiled me in this regard.  Monk Plus also sounded better suited on a recent listen.


----------



## seanc6441

Saoshyant said:


> I enjoyed the result of Yinman 600 with Opus #1.  Well, I respected what the Y600 was capable of, but it did not match my tastes enough to keep.
> 
> Kind of off topic, but having received my Massdrop Porta Pro, I immediately went for a quick listen to some Pink Floyd.  Earbuds have spoiled me too much, as I had fond memories of my old Porta Pro I gave way to a friend, but this to my ears feels veiled/dulled.  It's been several years since I last owned a legit one.  I do imagine with time I'll readjust to the sound and appreciate it more, but for now, both Rose Tech & Cypherus Audio have somewhat spoiled me in this regard.  Monk Plus also sounded better suited on a recent listen.


You need to make the stratokosster diy headphone for ksc drivers to sound good now hehe.

There's some easier mods to do on the portapro mods forum... might help you get the most out of the ksc75.


----------



## Saoshyant

Already have a SennGrado which is a pretty similar level of DIY from what I remember reading about that particular mod set.  My particular enjoyment of PP & KSC75 was always the ear-clips, so I'd be more inclined to do something less like the kramer mods and such.


----------



## seanc6441

Saoshyant said:


> Already have a SennGrado which is a pretty similar level of DIY from what I remember reading about that particular mod set.  My particular enjoyment of PP & KSC75 was always the ear-clips, so I'd be more inclined to do something less like the kramer mods and such.


Nice! I'm making a Senngrado very soon (px100ii driver, sapele wood cups). Have everything except the Cable (en route).

I just love the look of the Grado's and this option can be cheaper (if you spend wisely on supplies only though) and apperantly it can sound wondeful with a bit of TLC.

How does your sound? Did you like the outcome?


----------



## DeltaRay

DeltaRay said:


> By best to worst fit: pk2 > nameless > graphene
> 
> As what others have mentioned,
> 
> ...


Realised for both my graphene and moondrop that the polarities (L/R) are reverse. :\ Fortunately they're earbuds, you can just wear them in the other ear easily. That being said, after listening for a while, Graphene is helluva competent earbud for its price.


----------



## waynes world

DeltaRay said:


> Realised for both my graphene and moondrop that the polarities (L/R) are reverse. :\ Fortunately they're earbuds, you can just wear them in the other ear easily. That being said, after listening for a while, Graphene is helluva competent earbud for its price.



Yeah, my respect for the graphene hasn't diminished.


----------



## j4100

To save going back through the pages, what are the fave foams for the Shozy BK and the MX760 Graphenes? I currently have the supplied donuts on the BKs but think that can be bettered. I have yet to fit any foams on the graphene, as I haven't done any serious listening on them. I left them to burn (as it were). I have Monk thins I can try, but I am still waiting on the Hiegi donuts and full foams. Hopefully they will be here at the end of next week. I should have ordered them earlier.


----------



## HungryPanda

Regarding the graphene's I'm just using the thin foams they came with


----------



## jogawag (Nov 18, 2017)

j4100 said:


> To save going back through the pages, what are the fave foams for the Shozy BK and the MX760 Graphenes? I currently have the supplied donuts on the BKs but think that can be bettered. I have yet to fit any foams on the graphene, as I haven't done any serious listening on them. I left them to burn (as it were). I have Monk thins I can try, but I am still waiting on the Hiegi donuts and full foams. Hopefully they will be here at the end of next week. I should have ordered them earlier.


I always use Monk thin pad on Shozy BK and MX760 Graphene.
Because I watched the graph that Monk thin pad highlight the treble.

.


----------



## oatp1b1

So my MX985's have finally given in and I need some new quality earbuds. What's the top of the line ones with a more or less balanced sound, but preferably with a hint of warmth rather than a clinical sounding one. Shozy Stardust?


----------



## jogawag

oatp1b1 said:


> So my MX985's have finally given in and I need some new quality earbuds. What's the top of the line ones with a more or less balanced sound, but preferably with a hint of warmth rather than a clinical sounding one. Shozy Stardust?


How about Shozy Stardust or Rose Masya?


----------



## Danneq

oatp1b1 said:


> So my MX985's have finally given in and I need some new quality earbuds. What's the top of the line ones with a more or less balanced sound, but preferably with a hint of warmth rather than a clinical sounding one. Shozy Stardust?



I would say either Cypherus CampFred 1 (discontinued) or CampFred 2. CampFred 1 is on about the same level as MX985 but with a slightly warmer sound. CampFred 2 is a small step up. Both CF have great sub bass compared to MX985 (the only thing I find lacking on MX980/985).


----------



## SweetEars

whats the differences between the emx500 and graphene


----------



## DeltaRay

j4100 said:


> To save going back through the pages, what are the fave foams for the Shozy BK and the MX760 Graphenes? I currently have the supplied donuts on the BKs but think that can be bettered. I have yet to fit any foams on the graphene, as I haven't done any serious listening on them. I left them to burn (as it were). I have Monk thins I can try, but I am still waiting on the Hiegi donuts and full foams. Hopefully they will be here at the end of next week. I should have ordered them earlier.


Using Heigi donuts on my graphene now. Somehow I feel it gives me the best bass response and quantity, as compared to thick foams.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 18, 2017)

j4100 said:


> To save going back through the pages, what are the fave foams for the Shozy BK and the MX760 Graphenes? I currently have the supplied donuts on the BKs but think that can be bettered. I have yet to fit any foams on the graphene, as I haven't done any serious listening on them. I left them to burn (as it were). I have Monk thins I can try, but I am still waiting on the Hiegi donuts and full foams. Hopefully they will be here at the end of next week. I should have ordered them earlier.



If you want a better treble response and clarity I find the donuts can be easily bettered as the make the bk almost overly thick and full sounding and the treble is too polite for my liking.

The original monk thins (probably the ones you have now) were too thin in donut forum and treble was harsh.

So I bought the new VE ex pack with monk thin foams. These new thin foams are slightly thicker than the old thins, which is perfect for the stardust as it gives a nice balance between full thick and clear treble with a hint of warmth rather than saturated warm bassy sound.

I cut the thin into a donut and applied that to the stardust with the pre cut side on the front face for a clean finish (only the outer layer of vents are covered just like the heigi but thinner). Now I get a clean bass response, clear lush mids and a treble that’s exciting (although it’s definitely not polite so not for treble sensitive ears).

For me this is easily the best combo i’ve found so far, and I try every combo on my earbuds so rest assured it’s the best of all the options IMO.


----------



## seanc6441

oatp1b1 said:


> So my MX985's have finally given in and I need some new quality earbuds. What's the top of the line ones with a more or less balanced sound, but preferably with a hint of warmth rather than a clinical sounding one. Shozy Stardust?


Stardust is everything you mentioned. Quite forward presentation if you enjoy a laid back sound look elsewhere.


----------



## jogawag (Nov 18, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> whats the differences between the emx500 and graphene


My feeling of the differences of sounds.
EMX500 = Refreshing brightness. V-shaped with detailed treble + deep bass.
NICEHCK DIY Graphene MX760 = A little dry and clear treble + tight bass. Maybe sound a little like Shozy BK?


----------



## SweetEars

seanc6441 said:


> If you want a better treble response and clarity I find the donuts can be easily bettered as the make the bk almost overly thick and full sounding and the treble is too polite for my liking.
> 
> The original monk thins (probably the ones you have now) were too thin in donut forum and treble was harsh.
> 
> ...


how did u cut it???


----------



## chinmie

j4100 said:


> To save going back through the pages, what are the fave foams for the Shozy BK and the MX760 Graphenes?



I use hiegi full foams on the graphene. ve thin foams sounded too bright, while donuts make the mids hollow sounding



oatp1b1 said:


> So my MX985's have finally given in and I need some new quality earbuds. What's the top of the line ones with a more or less balanced sound, but preferably with a hint of warmth rather than a clinical sounding one. Shozy Stardust?



yep, the stardust fits the bill. i like the liebesleid better though.. the treble and staging on that one sounds "expensive", for a lack of better description


----------



## snip3r77

DeltaRay said:


> Using Heigi donuts on my graphene now. Somehow I feel it gives me the best bass response and quantity, as compared to thick foams.


Where to buy the Heigi?


----------



## DeltaRay

snip3r77 said:


> Where to buy the Heigi?


http://s.aliexpress.com/n63myiYn


----------



## j4100

seanc6441 said:


> If you want a better treble response and clarity I find the donuts can be easily bettered as the make the bk almost overly thick and full sounding and the treble is too polite for my liking.



Yeah, that's pretty much what I hear.



seanc6441 said:


> For me this is easily the best combo i’ve found so far, and I try every combo on my earbuds so rest assured it’s the best of all the options IMO.



Tidy! I recall you possting this the other week. I'll give it a go. I also got my bag of 100 black foams today. I'm guessing they might be the same thickness as the new Monk thins.


----------



## oatp1b1

Thanks for all the replies! How's the quality like on the Stardust? The housing looks pretty cheap on the photos I've found, but looks can be deceiving. Just regular plastic?


----------



## j4100

Couldn't help noticing there are a pair of CampFred2 buds for sale on here - guessing US to anywhere else shipping is pretty steep these days?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fsot-cypherus-audio-campfred2.864696/


----------



## lyrean (Nov 18, 2017)

Not much conversation on Yincrow X6 / Vido anymore. Is EMX500 that much better? Someone told that Vido is easier on highs than EMX500.


----------



## euge

can anyone read this?

edit: the google translation doesn't make much sense


----------



## chinmie

lyrean said:


> Not much conversation on Yincrow X6 / Vido anymore. Is EMX500 that much better? Someone told that Vido is easier on highs than EMX500.



with stock cable, yes the emx is better than the vido, but i have a recabled vido, and i prefer that one compared to the emx. I haven't tried the yincrow yet


----------



## seanc6441

j4100 said:


> Yeah, that's pretty much what I hear.
> 
> 
> 
> Tidy! I recall you possting this the other week. I'll give it a go. I also got my bag of 100 black foams today. I'm guessing they might be the same thickness as the new Monk thins.


Little more treble gets through. But give it a go and see what you think.

One thing is for sure, the stardust responds better to donut than any full foam no matte how thin. I think it was designed this way so as to get optimal clarity but also a thick sound, donut foams really balance out the sound.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 18, 2017)

oatp1b1 said:


> Thanks for all the replies! How's the quality like on the Stardust? The housing looks pretty cheap on the photos I've found, but looks can be deceiving. Just regular plastic?


It’s quite the opposite. Sure the shell is a standard pk shell, but it’s finished with a high quality matte paint job that I consider a premium look and feel. It’s about as simple but classy as you can get from an earbud. I wouldn’t change a thing about the finish tbh.

Swapping from the diy pk2 glossy shell to this and you can tell which is the premium product here.


----------



## lyrean

chinmie said:


> with stock cable, yes the emx is better than the vido, but i have a recabled vido, and i prefer that one compared to the emx. I haven't tried the yincrow yet



I have the Yincrow X6 myself and I like it quite much (not for classical though) but I haven't tried the others. It is said that Vido and Yincrow X6 are the same soundwise.


----------



## theoutsider

euge said:


> can anyone read this?
> 
> edit: the google translation doesn't make much sense


Overall it's good. It's great if you take into account the 200hkd price tag. Soundstage almost equals a bk. The high is not as sparkly as a bk.


----------



## euge

cursing said:


> Overall it's good. It's great if you take into account the 200hkd price tag. Soundstage almost equals a bk. The high is not as sparkly as a bk.



Thanks! that's underwhelming :/ bk's soundstage isn't amazing...


----------



## seanc6441

cursing said:


> Overall it's good. It's great if you take into account the 200hkd price tag. Soundstage almost equals a bk. The high is not as sparkly as a bk.


Bk doesn’t have a big soundstage though. It’s the imaging that is impressive on the bk.


----------



## theoutsider

euge said:


> Thanks! that's underwhelming :/ bk's soundstage isn't amazing...





seanc6441 said:


> Bk doesn’t have a big soundstage though. It’s the imaging that is impressive on the bk.



Yes he stated that just like bk, the soundstage is not very wide. The bass is a little slow. The sound is clear and the resolution is high. He sounded quite impressed.


----------



## Saoshyant

@oatpb1 Another to consider is the Yinman 600.  It didn't suit me, but to my ears feels like a good alternative to the MX985.  It's not easily driven however, but should be worth looking into.


----------



## chinmie

lyrean said:


> I have the Yincrow X6 myself and I like it quite much (not for classical though) but I haven't tried the others. It is said that Vido and Yincrow X6 are the same soundwise.



it seems there are different opinions on the subject. some say they sounded the same, but some people said although they are quite similar,  the yincrow have a better sound quality.. my reasoning for this might be because the yincrow has better cables

I'm hesitant to try the yincrow out because I rarely use the vido nowadays, I don't want to add another similar sounding buds to my collection


----------



## springbay

j4100 said:


> Couldn't help noticing there are a pair of CampFred2 buds for sale on here - guessing US to anywhere else shipping is pretty steep these days?
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fsot-cypherus-audio-campfred2.864696/



I'm sure it can't be as expensive as the $42 you need to pay getting them shipped EMS by posindonesia.
EMS in Indonesia compared to the rest of the world must be totally different services. My parcel took more than a month to arrive...


----------



## seanc6441

SweetEars said:


> how did u cut it???



Just poked a small scissors through and sniped around until I had the circle cut out.

You’re eyes are surprisingly accurate when it comes to pinpointing points in a circle, so the cut has always been fairly accurate for me. Besides you can use the precut side facing out so everything aligns perfectly.


----------



## eaglesgift

springbay said:


> I'm sure it can't be as expensive as the $42 you need to pay getting them shipped EMS by posindonesia.
> EMS in Indonesia compared to the rest of the world must be totally different services. My parcel took more than a month to arrive...


You might be surprised. The only fully tracked option from USPS these days is Priority Express International: sending a couple of straight razors (250-300-gramme package) from California to Thailand, as an example, cost me around $65.


----------



## theoutsider

chinmie said:


> it seems there are different opinions on the subject. some say they sounded the same, but some people said although they are quite similar,  the yincrow have a better sound quality.. my reasoning for this might be because the yincrow has better cables
> 
> I'm hesitant to try the yincrow out because I rarely use the vido nowadays, I don't want to add another similar sounding buds to my collection


That’s why you sold Vx pro after getting liebesleid


----------



## chinmie

cursing said:


> That’s why you sold Vx pro after getting liebesleid



yup, but there's also a few problem with the VX Pro that's bothering me long before i got the Liebesleid: troublesome fitting (the bass really dependent on the insertion depth and fitting), and also there is a frequency hump on the vocal range that's really annoyed me. don't get me wrong, the VX Pro is a good bud, but just not worth keeping just because i like keeping my collection as small as possible (which is already too many for my goal )


----------



## theoutsider

chinmie said:


> yup, but there's also a few problem with the VX Pro that's bothering me long before i got the Liebesleid: troublesome fitting (the bass really dependent on the insertion depth and fitting), and also there is a frequency hump on the vocal range that's really annoyed me. don't get me wrong, the VX Pro is a good bud, but just not worth keeping just because i like keeping my collection as small as possible (which is already too many for my goal )


I ordered a VX pro and sold my Nameless. I hope I don't end up ordering Liebesleid.


----------



## chinmie

cursing said:


> I ordered a VX pro and sold my Nameless. I hope I don't end up ordering Liebesleid.



i was thinking of trying the nameless, what made you sell it? from reviews, the nameless and liebesleid both are warmer than the vx pro


----------



## theoutsider

chinmie said:


> i was thinking of trying the nameless, what made you sell it? from reviews, the nameless and liebesleid both are warmer than the vx pro


Sold it cos VX pro looks better. Nameless is actually quite pleasant to listen to.


----------



## SweetEars

after a few days with the R4YS and EMx 500 i can say i like the sound of the EMX500 better  . it has a certain vibrancy which the R4YS lacks although being similar in sound signature


----------



## vladstef

SweetEars said:


> after a few days with the R4YS and EMx 500 i can say i like the sound of the EMX500 better  . it has a certain vibrancy which the R4YS lacks although being similar in sound signature



I ordered R4Ys due to my right side of EMX rattling. I did manage to fix it and it doesn't rattle but bass gets distorted more on the right side now. I never fully understood why MX and PK type shells are popular given that the drivers required for them are not enclosed, the front plastic keeps the membrane in place - a design flaw imho. You should be able to extract the driver out of it without keeping  the front cover which is not connected to the driver except when it's glued to it. IEMs almost exclusively use enclosed drivers which protect their membranes while earbuds almost exclusively don't, very strange.


----------



## jogawag (Nov 19, 2017)

vladstef said:


> I ordered R4Ys due to my right side of EMX rattling. I did manage to fix it and it doesn't rattle but bass gets distorted more on the right side now. I never fully understood why MX and PK type shells are popular given that the drivers required for them are not enclosed, the front plastic keeps the membrane in place - a design flaw imho. You should be able to extract the driver out of it without keeping  the front cover which is not connected to the driver except when it's glued to it. IEMs almost exclusively use enclosed drivers which protect their membranes while earbuds almost exclusively don't, very strange.



I think that copy use of Housing of MX500 type and PK type is due to low consciousness of copying in China and Southeast Asia.
Japan and Korea and Western countries almost will not allow such copies.

Edit:
However, I know that Housing of MX500 type and PK type is copy free.


----------



## seanc6441

vladstef said:


> I ordered R4Ys due to my right side of EMX rattling. I did manage to fix it and it doesn't rattle but bass gets distorted more on the right side now. I never fully understood why MX and PK type shells are popular given that the drivers required for them are not enclosed, the front plastic keeps the membrane in place - a design flaw imho. You should be able to extract the driver out of it without keeping  the front cover which is not connected to the driver except when it's glued to it. IEMs almost exclusively use enclosed drivers which protect their membranes while earbuds almost exclusively don't, very strange.


I’ve ruined a few buds not knowing this before, luckily they were the Vido’s lol


----------



## seanc6441

As christmas is arriving shortly I’m wondering of those who celebrate it are you guys giving an audio related gifts to friends and family?

I’m considering giving my dad some Senngrado’s I’m building... to replace his Sony MDR10rc headphones.

I’m going for a very similar build to this


 

same headband except I’ll add a layer of black PU leather, sapele cups, black nylon braid cable, px100ii drivers.

Sorry for headphone discussions on earbud threads


----------



## vladstef (Nov 19, 2017)

jogawag said:


> I think that copy use of Housing of MX 500 type and PK type is due to low consciousness of copying in China and Southeast Asia.
> Japan and Korea and Western countries almost will not allow such copies.



Yeah, there is no denying that copying is happening without any control or moral compass. However, I wouldn't even consider this copying at this point, it's just a shell template that everyone decided to use. The thing is, these are ugly and cheap looking, why everyone decided to use them is beyond my ability to understand.
Look at Auglamour RX-1 for example, a simple metal shell probably costs very little to design and manufacture yet it gave them a lot of street credit for using their own design. It still uses off the shell front cover/driver holder which is sad, but at least it's one step in the right direction.

I am very happy to see that someone actually tried, talking about Memt X6. It has enclosed driver, as you can see on the blown-up photo, while the front cover is just a cover like it should be. This means that you have a controlled environment for your membrane to stay put exactly like it should and not be disturbed by outside influence.


----------



## SweetEars

so is it possible to improve sound quality by somehow meddling with the internal components like the membrane ect?


----------



## vladstef

SweetEars said:


> so is it possible to improve sound quality by somehow meddling with the internal components like the membrane ect?



This is a conversation for diy thread, but it's not really popular so it might be worth posting here.
There is potential to improve some aspects while making some things worse. You can't really do anything with the membrane but earbud drivers have holes on the back which could be covered with tuning foam or fabric/mesh of some sorts - damping material, you could also experiment with openings on the back of the shell (all of these impact how much the membrane moves and how much air it can pull from the back of the driver), the front cover changes the sound to some extent (plastic vs metal, number and size of holes..). Manufacturers mostly mess with these as much as they can in order to adjust all of these aspects to their particular driver and shell shape. They also decide how many holes and their size are behind the driver.

Example: Vido driver, on the left with dampening foam and naked on the right (keep in mind that Vido shell has this same dampening material glued to the shells)


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 19, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> so is it possible to improve sound quality by somehow meddling with the internal components like the membrane ect?


I think doing anything to the driver itself would probably damage it.

Although I’ve seen large headphone drivers modded by cutting out a circle in the middle of the membrane about the size of a 2 cent/dime/penny which apparently cleans up the bass and lower mids on some drivers. Not sure if this would translate to earbuds though.


----------



## Smiped

Out of all these, what would you say is the most durable? By that specifically I mean it could last me quite a while and not just a few months.


----------



## seanc6441

Smiped said:


> Out of all these, what would you say is the most durable? By that specifically I mean it could last me quite a while and not just a few months.



VE monks are durable budget earbud. But are not the best budget earbud these days when compared to Vido/EMX500 but are still 'good' for general use.

What price are you looking to pay?


----------



## Smiped

seanc6441 said:


> VE monks are durable budget earbud. But are not the best budget earbud these days when compared to Vido/EMX500 but are still 'good' for general use.
> 
> What price are you looking to pay?



Max maybe like $40 - $50? Currently I am looking at the **** PT15, but I would like more recommendations to see which one I should pull the trigger for.


----------



## seanc6441

For the people using phones as a source for their music, what dac/amps are you guys using if any? I'm debating getting a portable dac amp for my iphone 6s instead of looking at DAP's as I use spotify exclusively these days and all the daps with built in spotify are quiet costly.

Any good options out there for iphone 6s that will notably improve the SQ?


----------



## seanc6441

Smiped said:


> Max maybe like $40 - $50? Currently I am looking at the **** PT15, but I would like more recommendations to see which one I should pull the trigger for.


If you want guaranteed durability over the best current SQ in a budget earbud (most say DIY Graphene for $25) I'd lean towards earbuds like the PT15/Moondrop Nameless etc that have durable looking shells and are not 'diy' made. The PT15 is a good choice because of the detachable cable also, allowing you to easily replace the cable for $5-7 if needed.

I have a PT15 coming to me soon so I can let you know how it feels on durability when I get it. But the pictures suggest it's a solid earbud. Also haven't heard of anyone complain of QC issues yet.


----------



## Smiped

seanc6441 said:


> If you want guaranteed durability over the best current SQ in a budget earbud (most say DIY Graphene for $25) I'd lean towards earbuds like the PT15/Moondrop Nameless etc that have durable looking shells and are not 'diy' made. The PT15 is a good choice because of the detachable cable also, allowing you to easily replace the cable for $5-7 if needed.
> 
> I have a PT15 coming to me soon so I can let you know how it feels on durability when I get it. But the pictures suggest it's a solid earbud. Also haven't heard of anyone complain of QC issues yet.



Oh, okay thanks for the input. No need to follow up. I am too impatient to wait and want to buy a earphone now lol.


----------



## j4100

seanc6441 said:


> I have a PT15 coming to me soon...



I pulled the trigger on one as well, since I don't have one with a detachable cable as yet. Certainly looks solid enough.

Since my foams order arrived quick enough, I hope my PT15s turn up this week.


----------



## PacoBdn

seanc6441 said:


> For the people using phones as a source for their music, what dac/amps are you guys using if any? I'm debating getting a portable dac amp for my iphone 6s instead of looking at DAP's as I use spotify exclusively these days and all the daps with built in spotify are quiet costly.
> 
> Any good options out there for iphone 6s that will notably improve the SQ?



When you mean portable,
How much portable do you want it to be?
I mean if you want it to be portable to move from one place to another inside the house, or to take it with you when you leave the house?


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 19, 2017)

PacoBdn said:


> When you mean portable,
> How much portable do you want it to be?
> I mean if you want it to be portable to move from one place to another inside the house, or to take it with you when you leave the house?



As portable as possible. Ideally something like a USB DAC (Dragonfly) but can be something of equal size to the iphone 6 itself, pocket size at max.

I'm afraid to pull the trigger on the dragonfly black 1.5 because of the mixed feeling about it and how poorly it measures in tests. Yet people say in real world use it sounds very good? Wondering if it will actually sound much better than my iphone 6s at all. Too many contradicting points of view on the topic of DACs...

My goal is to find something that gets the most out of the shozy bk, and also something to make my masya sound fuller in vocals out of a mobile source (vocals are very thin on my 6s so I'm thinking a good amp dac will drive it better)


----------



## Smiped

j4100 said:


> I pulled the trigger on one as well, since I don't have one with a detachable cable as yet. Certainly looks solid enough.
> 
> Since my foams order arrived quick enough, I hope my PT15s turn up this week.



Right? It certainly astounds me how such a quality can be achieved at that price. The exterior casing looks very sturdy and nice.


----------



## Saoshyant

@seanc6441 Sorry for the response delay.  It was actually a present, so I wasn't involved in the build, but was extremely pleased with the outcome.  It's bass is a shade behind HE400, which for an open is pretty impressive, and really deserves more eartime than it gets.  If it wasn't for me buying a new HD700 for under 300USD w/warranty soon after, it probably would have been my main headphone.

Also, got in another Koss headphone, the KPH30i which I had never seen before, it handles Pink Floyd better than the Porta Pro, not having that initial veil that the PP had out of the box.  I had to laugh because this very inexpensive little headphone also has a tiny yet comfortable suspension strap that looks like it would be part of a toy.  Also got in another smaller headphone, and hoping I'll like it too.

Also to get the post back on topic, the PT15 durability to me is about as good as it can get IMO.  It feels solid, has survived accidentally being stepped on a couple of times with boots, plus the other aspects you mentioned.  There aren't that many good options at around $50 as for a little more you get into Red Demun, Edimun, Cygnus, etc & lower there's such a vast ocean of great options.  Some would recommend the Tomahawk, which really is a good performer at that range, but also suffers from it's inherit love/hate relationship it's had with owners.


----------



## seanc6441

Saoshyant said:


> @seanc6441 Sorry for the response delay.  It was actually a present, so I wasn't involved in the build, but was extremely pleased with the outcome.  It's bass is a shade behind HE400, which for an open is pretty impressive, and really deserves more eartime than it gets.  If it wasn't for me buying a new HD700 for under 300USD w/warranty soon after, it probably would have been my main headphone.
> 
> Also, got in another Koss headphone, the KPH30i which I had never seen before, it handles Pink Floyd better than the Porta Pro, not having that initial veil that the PP had out of the box.  I had to laugh because this very inexpensive little headphone also has a tiny yet comfortable suspension strap that looks like it would be part of a toy.  Also got in another smaller headphone, and hoping I'll like it too.
> 
> Also to get the post back on topic, the PT15 durability to me is about as good as it can get IMO.  It feels solid, has survived accidentally being stepped on a couple of times with boots, plus the other aspects you mentioned.  There aren't that many good options at around $50 as for a little more you get into Red Demun, Edimun, Cygnus, etc & lower there's such a vast ocean of great options.  Some would recommend the Tomahawk, which really is a good performer at that range, but also suffers from it's inherit love/hate relationship it's had with owners.



The tomahawk was super durable yeah, also from the right source and eq'ing it could sound awesome. But it's not an easy task for new buyers so i'd probably steer clear. Plus the cable is meh.


----------



## PacoBdn

seanc6441 said:


> As portable as possible. Ideally something like a USB DAC (Dragonfly) but can be something of equal size to the iphone 6 itself, pocket size at max.
> 
> I'm afraid to pull the trigger on the dragonfly black 1.5 because of the mixed feeling about it and how poorly it measures in tests. Yet people say in real world use it sounds very good? Wondering if it will actually sound much better than my iphone 6s at all. Too many contradicting points of view on the topic of DACs...
> 
> My goal is to find something that gets the most out of the shozy bk, and also something to make my masya sound fuller in vocals out of a mobile source (vocals are very thin on my 6s so I'm thinking a good amp dac will drive it better)



In that type of devices I do not believe. They are powered by the mobile, so it is difficult to get more power than the same mobile. And I speak with knowledge, I have a NextDrive Spectra that is supposed to be very good and does not get more volume out of my OnePlus, although maybe it's a more refined sound.

You have the Oppo HA2 that is basically designed for Apple, but it seems that all opinions agree that it is very bright, just the opposite that you are looking for. The Top I think is the Mojo, its sound is great, with a lot of body and definition, but I did not see it portable. That's why I was asking you about the portability you're looking for. Another option that I personally know is the Xduoo XD-05. An excellent option for sound, power and above all for its low price for its features, but I do not see it as portable either.

One option that I am considering for the next Black Friday, is the DAP Cayin N3. They speak very well of its sound, it is small, and the most important thing for me that I also listen to Spotify principally, is that it has Bluetooth and you can pair it with your mobile, doing the functions of DAC and amplifier.

See if another partner can help you with other alternatives.


----------



## seanc6441

PacoBdn said:


> In that type of devices I do not believe. They are powered by the mobile, so it is difficult to get more power than the same mobile. And I speak with knowledge, I have a NextDrive Spectra that is supposed to be very good and does not get more volume out of my OnePlus, although maybe it's a more refined sound.
> 
> You have the Oppo HA2 that is basically designed for Apple, but it seems that all opinions agree that it is very bright, just the opposite that you are looking for. The Top I think is the Mojo, its sound is great, with a lot of body and definition, but I did not see it portable. That's why I was asking you about the portability you're looking for. Another option that I personally know is the Xduoo XD-05. An excellent option for sound, power and above all for its low price for its features, but I do not see it as portable either.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the suggestions. My issue with these daps is they don't support spotify by default which is annoying. You need BT pairing which can be awkward as you have to carry both devices together and it's generally a worse UI and less practical than using a phone alone.

hmm, I have more to think about now )


----------



## Saoshyant

Really, if you're going to consider a dap you'd have to use BT with, you may as well look into the AK XB10 which is tiny, has respectable driving power, and easily has the best BT connection of anything I've ever tried.


----------



## Hifisnubben

seanc6441 said:


> For the people using phones as a source for their music, what dac/amps are you guys using if any? I'm debating getting a portable dac amp for my iphone 6s instead of looking at DAP's as I use spotify exclusively these days and all the daps with built in spotify are quiet costly.
> 
> Any good options out there for iphone 6s that will notably improve the SQ?



I use Dragonfly Red that i got ”for free” with my Nightowl on the used market. Works really well with my Iphone SE, sounds a bit better and the additional power gives me the freedom to use my harder to drive buds.

DF black is a bit cheaper though so that might be a option. 

Also used to own a resonessence labs herus wich sounds really good but is rather pricy.


----------



## seanc6441

Hifisnubben said:


> I use Dragonfly Red that i got ”for free” with my Nightowl on the used market. Works really well with my Iphone SE, sounds a bit better and the additional power gives me the freedom to use my harder to drive buds.
> 
> DF black is a bit cheaper though so that might be a option.
> 
> Also used to own a resonessence labs herus wich sounds really good but is rather pricy.



Hmm, only a bit better? My 6s sounded a bit better than my iphone se did before, so how much better the DFR will be to me seems questionable especially considering the price.

If I knew for certain that it would make my masya and stadust sound notably better and it works on IOS11 with spotify flawlessly I'd grab one in a heartbeat.

I wish someone had the DFB/R and iphone 6s on IOS11 through spotify and these earbuds (or any earbuds actually) and could give me definitive answers lol! Wishful thinking though.


----------



## PacoBdn

seanc6441 said:


> Hmm, only a bit better? My 6s sounded a bit better than my iphone se did before, so how much better the DFR will be to me seems questionable especially considering the price.
> 
> If I knew for certain that it would make my masya and stadust sound notably better and it works on IOS11 with spotify flawlessly I'd grab one in a heartbeat.
> 
> I wish someone had the DFB/R and iphone 6s on IOS11 through spotify and these earbuds (or any earbuds actually) and could give me definitive answers lol! Wishful thinking though.



The Iphone already have excellent audio quality. The only reason to buy an amplifier is because you need more power to move some harder headphones. A good amplifier will not improve the sound of your headphones. It will change the sound earlier if you change a foam than if you add an amplifier.


----------



## seanc6441

PacoBdn said:


> The Iphone already have excellent audio quality. The only reason to buy an amplifier is because you need more power to move some harder headphones. A good amplifier will not improve the sound of your headphones. It will change the sound earlier if you change a foam than if you add an amplifier.


Yeah I’ve realised when I bought a fiio i 1 and topping nx1s that infact the iphone 6s dac is really good and the amp is good enough for earbuds.

But for some reason my masya doesn’t play well with it, and for my stardust I was hoping for a slightly smoother sound and bigger stage.

I know the best option is probably a new DAP or upgrade to a different phone like lg V 20/30 or another for a different sound signature. I’m just disappointed I cannot use my masya on my phone without hating it, plus the stardust is awesome but just a little rough on a brighter source like the 6s.


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> I can report that the Bass quantity and impact have improved, after listening to the Ti7 for a couple of days.
> Right now, they're connected to my Cayin N3, which is receiving streamed YouTube audio, via Bluetooth (so, it's standard SBC encoding).



Even though the N3 doesn't receive BT in aptx, does it still sound okay to you for streaming anything equal to 320kbps?



PacoBdn said:


> One option that I am considering for the next Black Friday, is the DAP Cayin N3. They speak very well of its sound, it is small, and the most important thing for me that I also listen to Spotify principally, is that it has Bluetooth and you can pair it with your mobile, doing the functions of DAC and amplifier.



I'm looking out for black friday deals for the N3 as well.

Your spotify streaming requirements should be okay even though the N3 doesn't receive in aptx (which probably is fine unless you start streaming lossless tidal to the N3).



seanc6441 said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. My issue with these daps is they don't support spotify by default which is annoying. You need BT pairing which can be awkward as you have to carry both devices together and it's generally a worse UI and less practical than using a phone alone.
> hmm, I have more to think about now )



Tbh, I don't really like having a dac (such as zuperdac or dragon fly etc) attached to my phone. It's just awkward. And the connection between the dac and the phone is a bit finicky (like when it gets bumped). And I would also prefer not to have headphone/earbud cables connected to my phone, because ultimately I like my phone to be free and untethered.

I would rather have the N3 tucked away in a pocket (with earbuds or ever stereo connected to it), being controlled via bluetooth by my phone and the Hiby app. This would be pretty slick I think.​


----------



## DBaldock9

Yesterday, I picked up a couple of additional storage bins, to hold the parts for assembling & rewiring earbuds.
This afternoon, I did some reorganizing of all the storage bins.

Six of the storage bins -

 

My main Earbud / Earphone portable storage bin -
 

Backup & less used Earbud / Earphone storage bin - 
 

Bin for Earbud shells (MX500 / MX760 / PK1), 14.8mm & 15.4mm Drivers, Cable Splitters, & MMCX connectors - 
 

Bin for Various 2.5mm & 3.5mm connectors, 4-Pin XLR connectors, Random cables, & Earbud Tuning Filters - 
 

Bin for some of my various Earbud Foams, Rings, Hooks, & Clips - 
 

Bin for some of my Hiegi Earbud Foams, and Silicone & Foam Earphone tips -


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 19, 2017)

waynes world said:


> Even though the N3 doesn't receive BT in aptx, does it still sound okay to you for streaming anything equal to 320kbps?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In some ways the bluetooth option is a good idea (your points above) but what I wouldn't like is the added weight, physical size (dap vs dragonfly for example) and the inconvenience of having to manage two devices rather than one.

The convience of a smartphone being a one for solution is a far more compelling factor to me. Thinking about it now I'd rather save the 100-200 and upgrade my phone to something with a superior DAC/AMP but I can never justify upgrading my phones until they break or get very obselete and currently I'm loving my 6s as a phone in general. Audio quality is actually the best of any phone I've used...

Should I just sell my Masya instead? lol... I do love it too though it just hates my phone xD


----------



## waynes world

Saoshyant said:


> Really, if you're going to consider a dap you'd have to use BT with, you may as well look into the AK XB10 which is tiny, has respectable driving power, and easily has the best BT connection of anything I've ever tried.



I should seriously consider that (or something like it). Thanks.


----------



## jogawag (Nov 20, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> after a few days with the R4YS and EMx 500 i can say i like the sound of the EMX500 better  . it has a certain vibrancy which the R4YS lacks although being similar in sound signature



I have received Braid RY4S.
Braid RY4S has sharp treble than Original RY4S.
Comparing Braid RY4S and EMX500, Braid RY4S is similar in sound signature with EMX500.

But the Braid RY4S has a punchy low sound. I like Braid RY4S's punchy low sound more than EMX500's sound.
Perhaps  Braid RY4S is  the best Earbuds for EDM.

https://aliexpress.com/item//32820438211.html


----------



## SweetEars

jogawag said:


> I have received Braid R4YS.
> Braid R4YS has sharp treble than Original R4YS.
> Comparing Braid R4YS and EMX500, Braid R4YS is similar in sound signature with EMX500.
> 
> ...




I agree the new cable gives better sound there is punchy sub low articulation with a smooth extension but I find the emx500 better in 3D space and sound movement but it's not burned in yet.


----------



## chi-fi mel (Nov 20, 2017)

_deleted_


----------



## eaglesgift

chi-fi mel said:


> The VSIN 215 is one of 4 excellent earphones I’ve added to my collection in the last week. (with 12 more pairs currently on order) This 10mm dynamic driver is producing a sound signature that rivals any of my dual drivers and hybrids. I like the looks too - mine is the silver with a transparent red faceplate. This plastic earphone has an exceptional build so if you view the picture you’ll see that the strain reliefs and L shaped jack are second to none. I have tried this with a number of EQ settings and you will want to use the 215 with flat EQ - this is a basshead IEM with good sounding highs and mids. These are quite a comfortable fit and cable microphonics aren’t much of a problem. Tipwise I’ve had good results with either KZ Whirlwinds or JVC Spiral Dots. These are 32 ohms, easy to drive and have average sound isolation. The VSIN 215 has quickly become a favorite of mine. They are available from Aliexpress.


What's this got to do with earbuds?


----------



## chinmie (Nov 19, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> For the people using phones as a source for their music, what dac/amps are you guys using if any? I'm debating getting a portable dac amp for my iphone 6s instead of looking at DAP's as I use spotify exclusively these days and all the daps with built in spotify are quiet costly.
> 
> Any good options out there for iphone 6s that will notably improve the SQ?



you might try the shanling M1, it's really small, smaller than the cayin n3 I'm using




waynes world said:


> Even though the N3 doesn't receive BT in aptx, does it still sound okay to you for streaming anything equal to 320kbps?​



I'm using the cayin n3 as bluetooth from my phone for spotify, and i like it alot. it sounded better than my phone or tablet, and the best thing is I'm not bothered with dangling cable when using my tablet while browsing. I'm using the N3 with the Fiio E17K as amp. not that the n3 is underpowered, but because i like the volume rotary and the quick EQ access of the E17K.

another product that caught my attention is the Centrance Bluedac


----------



## chi-fi mel

eaglesgift said:


> What's this got to do with earbuds?


I'll delete the post if you tell me how.


----------



## SweetEars

jogawag said:


> I have received Braid R4YS.
> Braid R4YS has sharp treble than Original R4YS.
> Comparing Braid R4YS and EMX500, Braid R4YS is similar in sound signature with EMX500.
> 
> ...


i agree the R4YS  has some good sub bass without distortion as well.. which rivals the emx 500..which is slightly more rough in texture


----------



## ozkan

Can you recommend me a good bluetooth earbud? Or is there a way to build my own bluetooth earbud? Any AliExpress shop which sells the bluetooth cable alone?


----------



## j4100

chi-fi mel said:


> I'll delete the post if you tell me how.



I don't believe you can delete posts. Not sure why this is, but that's it.


----------



## rkw

ozkan said:


> Can you recommend me a good bluetooth earbud? Or is there a way to build my own bluetooth earbud? Any AliExpress shop which sells the bluetooth cable alone?


You can use a bluetooth receiver such as the FiiO BTR1 (just one example — there are others). Then you can use your favorite earbud.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fiio-btr1-bluetooth-headphone-amplifier-aptx-discrete-dac.850675/


----------



## chi-fi mel

j4100 said:


> I don't believe you can delete posts. Not sure why this is, but that's it.


I think you are right. I'll post it in another forum. If a moderator wants to delete it that's okay.


----------



## j4100

I have to say, putting Monk donuts on my seaHF AWK-F150C buds has improved the sound over the Monk thins I was originally using. Treble sounds better. Currently enjoying Amplifier's Airborne (from the S/T album), RM Hubbert's Simple Things (from the Recovery 2 E.P.).


----------



## endia

DBaldock9 said:


> Yesterday, I picked up a couple of additional storage bins, to hold the parts for assembling & rewiring earbuds.
> This afternoon, I did some reorganizing of all the storage bins.
> 
> Six of the storage bins -
> ...



may i ask, where did you source those 3.5 mm connectors?
thanks..


----------



## chinmie

ozkan said:


> Can you recommend me a good bluetooth earbud? Or is there a way to build my own bluetooth earbud? Any AliExpress shop which sells the bluetooth cable alone?



this is what i'm using:
 

you can use it mmcx earbuds like the Svara L (i'm using this one), ourart ti7, **** PT15, Daik, Tonekings, etc


----------



## jogawag (Nov 22, 2017)

*Changed first to show ranking result.*
Please watch the "Earbud Survey" ranking result and vote for the ranking!
I think that this would be a reference when purchasing new Earbuds.
You need Google ID(like Gmail).
Price is divided into 5 tiers of /$0→, /$20→, /$50→, /$100→, /$200→.
You can vote 1 - 5 rating to any earbuds which you've used and can submit form. Then you can watch the new ranking result. The URL is as follows. Enjoy this!
https://goo.gl/gt1THD


----------



## DBaldock9

endia said:


> may i ask, where did you source those 3.5 mm connectors?
> thanks..



Those are parts of the "Neutrik NTP3RC-B Plug 3.5mm Right Angle Black/Gold" connectors, that I ordered from Zack Electronics (they have the lowest price I've found in the USA).
http://www.zackelectronics.com/neutrik-ntp3rc-b-plug-3-5mm-right-angle-black-gold.html

Using a technique shown to me by Wong Kuan Wae, I take the right-angle part of the shell, and place different 2.5mm & 3.5mm plugs in them, to make compact right-angle connectors.

Here's one with a 2.5mm TRRS plug, before the final assembly of the shell (it gets filled with Gorilla Glue, and then the strain relief is pushed over the threads).


----------



## endia

that price is excellent but overseas shipping will be kill the deal.
thanks for the technique btw..


----------



## fairx

Woo-hoo the 89cent per 100 foams that I ordered from AE just arrived. 

Take that VE!

 Perfect almost as porous as VE thin foam. It's so much that I even donated some to my friends. I sure hope they add more color in the future. I wouldn't mind paying more for color.


----------



## seanc6441

fairx said:


> Woo-hoo the 89cent per 100 foams that I ordered from AE just arrived.
> 
> Take that VE!
> 
> Perfect almost as porous as VE thin foam. It's so much that I even donated some to my friends. I sure hope they add more color in the future. I wouldn't mind paying more for color.



If we are wishing for things then if they charged an extra dollar or two for a softer foam I’d take that deal.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 20, 2017)

So I decided to pull the trigger on a usb dac after some reading and weighing my options.

I went for the Hifime Sabre UAE23HD which is mostly a DAC but also has a small amp suitable for IEM’s/Earbuds, but you can add your own amp if you need more power.

It’s not a fancy looking DAC but you pay for the internals and apperantly it’s a great performer especially the newer revision.

I paid €75 (about €15 cheaper than dragonfly black). So it doesn’t break the bank and gives me a taste of what external DACs can do. Add to that the apple camera connection kit needed to connect the DAC and the price comes up to around €100/$115. Not too bad.

Oh and I also received my DIY graphene’s today. I will burn them in overnight before giving my impressions. Initial impressions are very good natural sound similar to the shozy signature. Looks awesome too (I got the clear version)

I’ll save the comparisons till the burn in.


----------



## DBaldock9

endia said:


> that price is excellent but overseas shipping will be kill the deal.
> thanks for the technique btw..



From Wikipedia - Neutrik was founded in 1975, and headquartered in Schaan, Liechtenstein.

I suspect they sell worldwide - check for a distributor in your area.

Using their modified right-angle connectors does allow for really compact plugs, on earbuds & earphones.


----------



## waynes world

chi-fi mel said:


> I'll delete the post if you tell me how.



Just edit your post, and replace the content with something like "deleted" or "."


----------



## fairx

I just realize the same seller of the black foam also have white and red color. The mentioned weight is same at 10 gram (not sure whole 100pcs as 10 gram?). Anybody tried it yet?

http://s.aliexpress.com/veQJVBVj


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> this is what i'm using:
> you can use it mmcx earbuds like the Svara L (i'm using this one), ourart ti7, **** PT15, Daik, Tonekings, etc



I've got that and the PT15 on the way. But it is "over ears" design cable. Can the PT15's be effectively be worn over ear?

Another interesting option:
AUGLAMOUR AG1-BT Wireless 4.0 Bluetooth Cable



rkw said:


> You can use a bluetooth receiver such as the FiiO BTR1 (just one example — there are others). Then you can use your favorite earbud.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fiio-btr1-bluetooth-headphone-amplifier-aptx-discrete-dac.850675/



Thanks for pointing that out. Inexpensive. Small. Has a built in clip. "Bluetooth 4.2, supporting SBC, AAC, aptX, aptX low latency". Very interested in that!


----------



## j4100

fairx said:


> I just realize the same seller of the black foam also have white and red color. The mentioned weight is same at 10 gram (not sure whole 100pcs as 10 gram?). Anybody tried it yet?
> 
> http://s.aliexpress.com/veQJVBVj



Don't know how I missed that. I would have bought black and another colour! Silly me.


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> I've got that and the PT15 on the way. But it is "over ears" design cable. Can the PT15's be effectively be worn over ear?
> 
> Another interesting option:
> AUGLAMOUR AG1-BT Wireless 4.0 Bluetooth Cable



i didn't own the **** anymore to try them with the bluetooth, but from what i remember the ****'s cables have enough clearance that makes them able to be worn over ear comfortably

that auglamour is tempting, the promised 8 hour battery life and magnetic swappable cable system could make them a winner


----------



## groucho69

DBaldock9 said:


> From Wikipedia - Neutrik was founded in 1975, and headquartered in Schaan, Liechtenstein.
> 
> I suspect they sell worldwide - check for a distributor in your area.
> 
> Using their modified right-angle connectors does allow for really compact plugs, on earbuds & earphones.



Yes they certainly do sell WW.


----------



## B9Scrambler

​


----------



## endia

fairx said:


> I just realize the same seller of the black foam also have white and red color. The mentioned weight is same at 10 gram (not sure whole 100pcs as 10 gram?). Anybody tried it yet?
> 
> http://s.aliexpress.com/veQJVBVj



some more colored and donut foams,

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/20-...pm=2114.10010108.1000015.1.29e0ee6737ZTnS&s=p

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10p...3.html?spm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.367.1LQMX8


----------



## HungryPanda

Nicehck EBX


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 20, 2017)

HungryPanda said:


> Nicehck EBX


What's the impression on those? Have you burned them in?

Also, really nice pics @B9Scrambler cannot remember how those were received for SQ but I do think they are premium right? Very interesting design... Open Back?

Although I'm not sure how yo would keep that back filter clean... If indeed that's what it is.


----------



## HungryPanda

They are rather good, great bass for an earbud, have sounded good with everything I've thrown at them


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> They are rather good, great bass for an earbud, have sounded good with everything I've thrown at them


Compared to the Rose Masya? I think you have it, right?


----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> I've got that and the PT15 on the way. But it is "over ears" design cable. Can the PT15's be effectively be worn over ear?
> 
> Another interesting option:
> AUGLAMOUR AG1-BT Wireless 4.0 Bluetooth Cable
> ...



I've been wearing the PT15 with over-the-ear cables, since I bought them a year ago.  For me, it's a more comfortable & secure fit - and since the cable is holding them up, their angle can more easily be adjusted, for best Bass response.


----------



## euge (Nov 20, 2017)

The new graphene that was on nicehck started popping up on 2 other stores.

The frequency range both store listed are the same as the older graphene 15 - 3000

:/

Link


----------



## nick n (Nov 20, 2017)

audio123 said:


> i will do a review soon mate. cheers.



Did you get around to the* OURART Ti7* review ever? Thanks.

ahh I see it now did not show up in search before.
thanks.


----------



## SweetEars

euge said:


> The new graphene that was on nicehck started popping up on 2 other stores.
> 
> The frequency range both store listed are the same as the older graphene 15 - 3000
> 
> ...


whats that supposed to mean>


----------



## golov17

VE Light series soon


----------



## euge (Nov 21, 2017)

golov17 said:


> VE Light series soon



hope they're good, monk+ was a great 1st earbud for me, the asura 2.0 was kinda disappointing compared to all my current ones especially for the price.



SweetEars said:


> whats that supposed to mean>



they might be the same driver with diff tuning? no idea


----------



## fairx

endia said:


> some more colored and donut foams,
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/20-...pm=2114.10010108.1000015.1.29e0ee6737ZTnS&s=p
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10p...3.html?spm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.367.1LQMX8


 I just ordered the white color 100pcs from same seller as the black one I bought. Hope they're same in thickness.


----------



## HungryPanda

seanc6441 said:


> Compared to the Rose Masya? I think you have it, right?



Whereas I would say the Masya is clear, polite, detailed and dreamy, these Nicehck EBX's are little powerhouses. Punchy with crystal clear energetic highs, a bass that goes low and hits harder than any other earbud I have. The build is solid


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> Whereas I would say the Masya is clear, polite, detailed and dreamy, these Nicehck EBX's are little powerhouses. Punchy with crystal clear energetic highs, a bass that goes low and hits harder than any other earbud I have. The build is solid


Interesting thanks. How is the mids snd vocals? thick and lush or neutral clear?


----------



## j4100

My head hurts. I dropped Wong an message about the Blur options and I have no idea what to do about the myriad of connector choices. Obviously, I currently only have 3.5mm capability, but believe it's probably worth going balanced, but that's where my problem begins. What amp (or amp dac) would I get to partner the Blur and my FiiO X5ii, or do I replace the DAP? Obviously it will likely also matter whether te Blur is 32/64/300 ohm. I know there are a few Blur owners in here. @ctaxxxx has a balanced version of at least one of his pairs, and @DBaldock9 also has a balanced version.

What are you balanced earbud users (in particular, Blur users) using to amp with?

Thanks again.


----------



## HungryPanda

seanc6441 said:


> Interesting thanks. How is the mids snd vocals? thick and lush or neutral clear?



Clear, detailed and full, just as they are meant to sound imo


----------



## HungryPanda

postman just arrived, two new toys for today. Yinman 150 ohm earbuds and the new IMR-R1 earphones


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> Clear, detailed and full, just as they are meant to sound imo


Thanks. They _sound _interesting.


----------



## j4100

HungryPanda said:


> ... the new IMR-R1 earphones



Brave man going for them after the Trinity debacle! Good to see them turning up.


----------



## jant71

HungryPanda said:


> They are rather good, great bass for an earbud, have sounded good with everything I've thrown at them



How is the cable??


----------



## ctaxxxx

j4100 said:


> My head hurts. I dropped Wong an message about the Blur options and I have no idea what to do about the myriad of connector choices. Obviously, I currently only have 3.5mm capability, but believe it's probably worth going balanced, but that's where my problem begins. What amp (or amp dac) would I get to partner the Blur and my FiiO X5ii, or do I replace the DAP? Obviously it will likely also matter whether te Blur is 32/64/300 ohm. I know there are a few Blur owners in here. @ctaxxxx has a balanced version of at least one of his pairs, and @DBaldock9 also has a balanced version.
> 
> What are you balanced earbud users (in particular, Blur users) using to amp with?
> 
> Thanks again.



I use the iBasso DX200 dap. If you are going for the 300 ohm version, I would suggest the balance route. High ohm headphones/earbuds typically sound better to my ears with the extra power.


----------



## j4100

ctaxxxx said:


> I use the iBasso DX200 dap. If you are going for the 300 ohm version, I would suggest the balance route. High ohm headphones/earbuds typically sound better to my ears with the extra power.



Thanks. Which versions do you have ?


----------



## HungryPanda

jant71 said:


> How is the cable??


 Very nice and also replaceable as they use mmcx connectors


----------



## ctaxxxx

j4100 said:


> Thanks. Which versions do you have ?



300 and 64 ohm, both balanced. I use AMP 3, which is balanced only.


----------



## j4100

ctaxxxx said:


> 300 and 64 ohm, both balanced. I use AMP 3, which is balanced only.



This is the listing I got, variously available with 2.5mm 3.5mm or 4.4mm terminations. Though I will not state the pricing given to me, the cheapest is at the top and descends to the most expensive at the bottom.

Blur 32 or 64
Blur 魔*女 * 300
Blur 魔音 32 or 300 SPC
Blur 32 or 64 4 core SPC
Blur 32 litz copper 4 core
Blur 32 or 64 or 300 Premium
Blur sONYfANbOY 32 or 64 or 300

No mention of 魔王 but I presume that would be either the Premium or sONYfANbOY (or both), since they both use the 925 silver housing. I liked the translation of "Devil King".

I'm guessing the 300 ohm balanced would be the preference, where available.


----------



## ctaxxxx

j4100 said:


> This is the listing I got, variously available with 2.5mm 3.5mm or 4.4mm terminations. Though I will not state the pricing given to me, the cheapest is at the top and descends to the most expensive at the bottom.
> 
> Blur 32 or 64
> Blur 魔*女 * 300
> ...



Huh... I was never given that extensive of a list. 

All I have are: 
Blur 魔音 300 SPC (analytical sound) 
Blur 64 Premium (warmer sound)


----------



## waynes world

j4100 said:


> I have to say, putting Monk donuts on my seaHF AWK-F150C buds has improved the sound over the Monk thins I was originally using. Treble sounds better. Currently enjoying Amplifier's Airborne (from the S/T album), RM Hubbert's Simple Things (from the Recovery 2 E.P.).



Yup, sounds very good (but man, changing foams is a fiddly pain in the butt!)


----------



## j4100

waynes world said:


> Yup, sounds very good (but man, changing foams is a fiddly pain in the butt!)



Yeah. Not the easiest, but the worst pair I have at the moment are the MX760 Graphene. Slippery customers.


----------



## waynes world

j4100 said:


> Yeah. Not the easiest, but the worst pair I have at the moment are the MX760 Graphene. Slippery customers.



Interesting how the 150C's and the Graphenes are both so good, but sound quite different.


----------



## HungryPanda

waynes world said:


> Interesting how the 150C's and the Graphenes are both so good, but sound quite different.


That is the whole reason we need lots of buds


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Yup, sounds very good (but man, changing foams is a fiddly pain in the butt!)



foams changing is an art of its own... you must learn the pinch and slide technique.. grasshopper


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> foams changing is an art of its own... *you must learn the pinch and slide technique*.. grasshopper



Video or it didn't happen!


----------



## DBaldock9

j4100 said:


> My head hurts. I dropped Wong an message about the Blur options and I have no idea what to do about the myriad of connector choices. Obviously, I currently only have 3.5mm capability, but believe it's probably worth going balanced, but that's where my problem begins. What amp (or amp dac) would I get to partner the Blur and my FiiO X5ii, or do I replace the DAP? Obviously it will likely also matter whether te Blur is 32/64/300 ohm. I know there are a few Blur owners in here. @ctaxxxx has a balanced version of at least one of his pairs, and @DBaldock9 also has a balanced version.
> 
> What are you balanced earbud users (in particular, Blur users) using to amp with?
> 
> Thanks again.



My current Balanced DAP is an Onkyo DP-X1, but I have a new Shanling M3s on order (looking forward to hearing how much _warmer_ the dual AKM DACs are, compared to the dual Saber DACs in the Onkyo).
I also have a Walnut F1 Balanced Amp, but it needs some modding, to reduce the gain, and make it less susceptible to EMI / RFI noises.
Sometime in the future, I'm planning to buy one of @xrk971  Balanced Class A Desktop Amps.


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Video or it didn't happen!



gotta find me a camera to shoot that close 
but really there's no weird trick to put on the foams, just slide one side in, and make sure to hold that upper part in place (usually i use index and middle finger), then work your way in circle. 

new foams are a little tricky because they're not stretched yet.you can place the on your finger like putting in socks to stretch them a little.


----------



## Orac

Does anybody know if 1More E1008 earbuds are available in another color than the gold? I was considering it a possibility if a great deal appears for Black Friday, but I'd prefer something much more understated.


----------



## seanc6441

Orac said:


> Does anybody know if 1More E1008 earbuds are available in another color than the gold? I was considering it a possibility if a great deal appears for Black Friday, but I'd prefer something much more understated.


Why the E1008? The looks? Or are you after a certain kind of sound signature? I think there's better to be had and in more understated design.


----------



## Orac (Nov 22, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> Why the E1008?


I want an all round earbud for any genre and any source I use, so I think something relatively neutral would be the way to go.

I'd also like to use it for some PC gaming so I'm placing some priority on soundstage and imaging. Doesn't necessarily need to be the biggest soundstage, as long as there is a pretty good overall sense of direction. I know full size headphones would be better, but I can't really wear them, and IEM are inherently limited in this regard. Earbuds seem like they could be worth a try for a better compromise.

Someone somewhere noted the E1008 is well made, with a slightly smaller than typical housing - this might be a good thing for me as my ears stick out a little and a good fit might be hard to find, I actually don't know yet. OurArt Ti7 made it on to my short list as well, but it's intended to be worn cable up and that worries me slightly. I've had IEM with clips or cable up that really hurt my ears, so for IEM I have been happier with smaller 'bullet' style housings.

The other thing is perhaps I should try to avoid anything that might be harsh or fatiguing. I had some Sony IEM before, and when I used them on a PC with a Sound Blaster X-Fi sound card it would get tiring quite quickly and I'd keep turning the volume down. In built sound and iPod Nano was a bit easier to listen to. I'm on the hunt for a new DAP as well, so can't say for sure what I will end up with.


----------



## B9Scrambler

seanc6441 said:


> What's the impression on those? Have you burned them in?
> 
> Also, really nice pics @B9Scrambler cannot remember how those were received for SQ but I do think they are premium right? Very interesting design... Open Back?
> 
> Although I'm not sure how yo would keep that back filter clean... If indeed that's what it is.



Thanks! I thought they were sub 100 USD but it seems I was very wrong. They cost around 300 USD actually. Haven't really researched them yet so I don't know if they're open back. Haven't spent much time with them either. They are pretty though 


  ​


----------



## j4100

Nice! Proper eye (ear?) candy there. Which version is this?


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 22, 2017)

Impressions time!

I'm going to keep this simple and to the point. I'll compare the DIY Graphene, Shozy Cygnus and Shozy BK Stardust and Rose Masya.

All the earbuds have been burned in atleast 15+ hours.

*Low end/Bass: (updated at the end below for cygnus vs graphene)*

Graphene

Polite Sub Bass, extends quiet low but not felt too much
Mid bass bump, slightly less defined and punch compared to shozy's but still of good quality. Slightly warm and smooth.
Cygnus

Sub bass presents similar to Graphene, Maybe slightly more presence, but not by much and is almost definitely down to fit/seal.
Mid bass has a punchy but overall warm analog sound that is slight better defined than the graphene possibly (shell size could be making a difference here).
BK Stardust

Extends equally as low but is more balanced with the mid bass. Slightly more felt presence and of higher resolution than the others.
Mid bass is less slightly emphasised than Cygnus for a more balanced linear bass presentation, about the same as the Graphene but of higher quality and sounds wonderfully resolving and has the same tight punchy but warm analog sound as the cygnus.
Masya

Good sub bass presence, not overpowering but always felt. Slightly colder tone than the others but not dull.
Mid bass carries on the same presentation, good presence but again not overpowering. The slightly colder presentation allows the sub and miss bass some great airy qualities and space. Bass heavy tracks don't become congested at all. Has the most effortless bass response of all the buds, slightly more presence than the BK overall if you get a good seal/fit that is.
Overall can be described as a spacious, extremely tight/quick sounding bass with good presence.
*
Mid Range/Vocals:
*
Graphene

Neutral presentation, musical and in balance with the low end/high end. The slightly warm low end flows into the lower mids giving them a slight warmth which fades out as you reach the high mids, this is very shozy-like. Mids have good sparkle and sound natural with good timbre and space/air between instruments. Vocals are the weak point here, they are slightly recessed which makes them somewhat duller than that of the Cygnus, although being of similar neutral tonality. The one positive is that they sound natural. Possibly with a warmer, smoother source that can push them slightly forward you may be able to improve the vocals somewhat.
Cygnus

Neutral presentation, musical and in balance with the low end/high end. Same as above, warm low end allows the low mids a bit of warmth which helps fill out the sound nicely. Mids have good sparkle and sound natural with a slightly good timbre and space air between instruments. Vocals are neutral and decently detailed. Vocals are not particularly thick or lush but do sound relatively clear and detailed thanks to their slightly forward presentation. They also are very natural sounding.

Stardust BK

The highlight of the show. If you're after a thick lush natural mid range with very good detailing, separation and natural timbre the bk offers it all. The sound after burn in smoothes out but just stays on the edge with it's resolving and textured slightly warm presentation. Like the cygnus the bass warmth helps the vocals sound full and lush, high mids are neutral but sweet and sparkly. Everything is wonderfully balanced and defined. I don't need to say much more other than this is the best natural sounding mid range I've heard in an earbud and shozy have done an excellent job tuning this earbud.

Again a neutral presentation with excellent separation, detailing and a slight emphasis on on the mid range to bring out excitement in instrumentals and vocals. This is certainly not just mid centric earbud though and on the whole is nicely balanced, with only a mild mid emphasis. Whilst it may not have the same natural timbre as the bk, it certainly has a wonderfully exciting smooth clean sound. However, this time with little warmth or mid bass bloat influencing the lower mids, in some ways it's nice to have a clean sounding low mid region but I think it doesn't help the Masya when paired with my bright/neutral sounding iphone 6s. The lack of thick low mids does affect the vocals, but I suspect with a different source this problem is not evident, other headfier's have not had this issue with their sources. Apart from the thin sound of the vocals, there is incredible clarity and a sweet delicate presentation which is just wonderful. Whilst the resolution may not be as high as the BK, it certainly has a cleaner smoother overall presentation at the cost of some thickness. Overall vocal quality is equal on both, the choice is yours if you prefer smooth and clear sound of the Masya or textured and naturally full vocals of the BK.
*High's/Treble:
*
Graphene

High's are well extended but slightly peaky in places, overall pretty balanced the lows and mids though. Treble is lively and sparkly and has nice detailing. Not too much roll off as far as I can tell, the usual amount for a balanced treble proficient earbud somewhere in between the cygnus and stardust I feel. With the right foams to tame/bring out the treble to the users needs, these sound wonderful up top.
Cygnus

Much of the same as the Graphene, maybe slightly more roll off up top. There are no obvious peaks which keeps the treble smoother than the Graphene but at the cost of a slightly more rolled off top end. Overall a very similar treble experience which I enjoyed a lot.
BK Stardust

The high end is a step up on the BK, so long as you can handle it. It has greater extension, detailing and balance than the Cygnus or Graphene. Continues the tonality of the upper mids being very natural and neutral.
Masya

Extends well like the bk, but there is a slight peak in the treble which could be troublesome for some, although not much of an issue with the right foams. Overall a very well articulated high end that smoothly transitions from the upper mids. Smoother presentation than the bk, but slightly less detailed (only very slightly). Overall some really high quality treble here again.
*Soundstage/Imaging*

Graphene


Soundstage feels medium-big Width is good, depth decent too. Imaging is pretty accurate overall.
Cygnus

Soundstage feels medium in size but more intimate/close in presentation. Width and depth are good. Imaging may be a little better than the Graphene, hard to tell, nothing too noticeable.
BK Stardust

Soundstage feels medium in size, like cygnus it feels close possibly even more intimate due to the even more forward sounding presentation. Imaging is a step above the Graphene and Cygnus, location of sounds are very easy to locate.
Masya

Big soundstage, feels open and spacious, out of head despite the intimate vocals and mid range nothing sounds too confined. More depth than width focused. Imaging isn't as quiet as good as the cygnus or stardust  though. Sounds are not as easy to pinpoint.

Overally I'd say all these earbuds are equally impressive within their price ranges. My personal pick is still the shozy BK but at the price range that may be expected. If your looking for a bigger out of head sound the Rose Masya is an excellent earbud at a better price than the BK. The Cygnus and Graphene are very similar but you pay extra for better vocal balance and better overall coherency of sound with less peaks and dips.

Hope you guys find the review helpful!

*Update: Comparing the Cygnus and Graphene bass I’d like to adjust my opinion slightly and say that the graphene has a slightly better balance of sub bass to mid bass which results in a slightly deeper tonality. However it also sounds slightly ‘softer’ than the punchy mid bass of the cygnus. Overall they are of equal quality whereas before I seemed to suggest the cygnus had a slightly better quality of bass, that’s not the case upon second listening. It’s only marginally different overall. You choose deeper tonality vs punchier mid bass. Up to you!*


----------



## seanc6441

B9Scrambler said:


> Thanks! I thought they were sub 100 USD but it seems I was very wrong. They cost around 300 USD actually. Haven't really researched them yet so I don't know if they're open back. Haven't spent much time with them either. They are pretty though
> 
> ​


Is yours a special version or something? I see them for $140 on aliexpress.


----------



## B9Scrambler (Nov 22, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> Is yours a special version or something? I see them for $140 on aliexpress.



This Lyra is a brand new model. Single dynamic vs. the old one which was a hybrid if I recall correctly.


----------



## KookaBurrra

seanc6441 said:


> Impressions time!
> 
> I'm going to keep this simple and to the point. I'll compare the DIY Graphene, Shozy Cygnus and Shozy BK Stardust and Rose Masya.
> 
> ...



Very interesting review, Wooooooo : GREAT!!


----------



## purikuma

guys any review about moondrop nameless and VX PRO? i has searched and not found a full review im only got nameless = mid centric and VX PRO = "baby mojito"? any review im very appriciated


----------



## seanc6441

Orac said:


> I want an all round earbud for any genre and any source I use, so I think something relatively neutral would be the way to go.
> 
> I'd also like to use it for some PC gaming so I'm placing some priority on soundstage and imaging. Doesn't necessarily need to be the biggest soundstage, as long as there is a pretty good overall sense of direction. I know full size headphones would be better, but I can't really wear them, and IEM are inherently limited in this regard. Earbuds seem like they could be worth a try for a better compromise.
> 
> ...



The Rose Masya would fit the bill but the fit is a little unique and doesn’t work for everyone.


----------



## jogawag (Nov 22, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> The Rose Masya would fit the bill but the fit is a little unique and doesn’t work for everyone.



Ear tip : audio-technica ER-CHX7 S Size (2 piece) White or Black

This fits Mojito and Masya.
If you want to buy this, please contact in each country audio-technica office.
ex.USA : http://www.audio-technica.com


----------



## seanc6441

jogawag said:


> Ear tip : audio-technica ER-CHX7 S Size (2 piece) White or Black
> 
> This fits Mojito and Masya.
> If you want to buy this, please contact in each country audio-technica office.
> ex.USA : http://www.audio-technica.com


I bought this the other day



Gonna give that a try first, if you buy 2 you get 6 total. 4 with hooks, 2 without.

Pretty sure you showed me these a few weeks back. They look well made.


----------



## jogawag (Nov 23, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> I bought this the other day
> 
> 
> Gonna give that a try first, if you buy 2 you get 6 total. 4 with hooks, 2 without.
> ...



I showed you the６ covers of only a version without hook .
They work well too.
https://aliexpress.com/item//32675489785.html


----------



## SweetEars

have anyone tried those earbud/IEM hyrbids??


----------



## BloodyPenguin

*Penon BS1 "Experence"*. (Will be discounted 30% on Black Friday).

https://penonaudio.com/Penon-Audio-BS1-Dynamic-Driver-Earbud

As many of you know, Penon Audio is a fantastic site for many types of audio equipment. Penon has also been releasing some of its own, in house earbuds.

Here we have the BS1 "Experience" version.

The rounded housings are smooth and simple, making for a comfortable, easy fit. The clear coated cable feels good in the hand as it is non-sticky, though they memory curl up just a touch. The 3.5mm plug is small, but with a good build and nice grooved grip for a solid grip when inserting. The only thing to be aware of, is there is no markings for left and right, so make sure to do a stereo test, then use the red and blue foam covers to label them correctly.

The sound experience is quite wonderful. There is an immediate silky playback, that gives the mids a front seat, making way for some epic vocals. Bass is very much present, but is not boomy. Instead the lows go for subtle, accurate rumble. Highs are just darn near perfect for my liking. Rolling off the treble long before they can get anywhere near harsh, but without giving up detail. There is abundant clarity throughout all frequencies. Overall this is a VERY enjoyable earbud.

The best part, is this is just the beginning of the BS1. Coming soon will be an "Official" and updated version. The new earbud will feature an upgraded build and design, though I have yet to hear it, so I can not comment on any sound differences. When the 2nd variant is released for sale, Penon will discount it for those who have already bought the original BS1.

(Photos as always taken by me):


----------



## KookaBurrra (Nov 23, 2017)

All @*BloodyPenguin *reviews looks like an advertisement. Never faults, never bad, really?
Free earbuds against sweet words? I must say that I do not like to see this here... (just my opinion, of course!!)


----------



## j4100

I was going to moan about the lack of deliveries when my Hiegi foams and Colarad C01 dropped through the door. I'll try the foams out on my BK this weekend.


----------



## chaiyuta

seanc6441 said:


> The Rose Masya would fit the bill but the fit is a little unique and doesn’t work for everyone.



Could you measure the front diameter of Masya.. perhaps by 'vernier caliper'?  Since Fitting is individual issue.


----------



## ClintonL

So i got my shozy bk and tbh they weren't that much better than my TY HI-Z 150's. Wondering what is a true upgrade to the 150s? Budget is 250 usd? Would the ty 600's be good?


----------



## Santojob (Nov 23, 2017)

Today I got TY Hi-z F300M 300 ohms. I am totally disappointed. Bad sound, without bass, distorts. I have tried it with different sources (stationary amplifier, Mojo, Fiio, etc) I do not understand how that model is for sale. Could it happen that they have sold me a fake model ?. It does not match at all with the review I read in this forum.

The commented model I bought it here:
https://es.aliexpress.com/item/TY-H...32831841294.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.lDceGW

Do you know if you can complain to Penon Audio, arguing the poor quality of that product?

I bought them a few months ago a TY Hi-Z 150s with which I am very happy, but this other commented model is very very bad and on top it cost me more


----------



## SweetEars

burn in  sound......


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 23, 2017)

ClintonL said:


> So i got my shozy bk and tbh they weren't that much better than my TY HI-Z 150's. Wondering what is a true upgrade to the 150s? Budget is 250 usd? Would the ty 600's be good?



Give them a chance to burn in and adjust to them. They have the highest resolution I’ve heard in an earbud so far. Plus they smooth out after awhile. I suggest using thinner foams if you’re missing some details and treble, with thick heigi they can be too bassy and overly thick sounding imo.

@chaiyuta 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-729#post-12896426

smaller than mx500 by a few millimetres.


----------



## seanc6441

KookaBurrra said:


> All @*BloodyPenguin *reviews looks like an advertisement. Never faults, never bad, really?
> Free earbuds against sweet words? I must say that I do not like to see this here... (just my opinion, of course!!)


He wasn’t wrong about the BS1 it’s a pretty good earbud for the price. I own it so I’ll let you know an unbiased opinion of it’s flaws 

- vocals don’t come out infront of the mids, so they do lack an excitement on tracks that don’t emphasise the vocals, although they do sound clear and relatively detailed.

- The soundstage is wide but lacks depth. So you get a nice space for instruments but they don’t have great expansion on atmospheric tracks.

This earbud would be good for pop and acoustic music, other genres would lack some excitement with it’s presentation.


----------



## seanc6441

SweetEars said:


> burn in  sound......



There’s a great list on spotify if your a premium member

 

has all the technical stuff like wave sweeps and pink/white noise. But also just a tonne of tracks of all genres. I think it’s like 20 hours of musics too!


----------



## Orac

seanc6441 said:


> BS1....opinion of it’s flaws...


Thanks for posting this. That was another I had read about only on the Everyday Listening blog. Not sure it would be quite right for me, but something for the reserve list if no better deals are available tomorrow.


----------



## chaiyuta

seanc6441 said:


> @chaiyuta
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-729#post-12896426
> 
> smaller than mx500 by a few millimetres.


Thanks, I just known that it is smaller than apple earpods (very first gen) (16.0mm), Pk-shell (16.1-16.3mm) and typical MX shell (16.9mm), therefore mostly Asian ears which have smaller ear than western are preferable.


----------



## seanc6441

j4100 said:


> I was going to moan about the lack of deliveries when my Hiegi foams and Colarad C01 dropped through the door. I'll try the foams out on my BK this weekend.


The only foam combination that completely satisfied me, actually it’s perfect for me

 

Now I have to explain that this took surgical precision to create but if your not quiet satisfied with your stardust try this out.

 

This is an example using other foams, for the masya I used both original monk thin foams.

On the left is a foam cut into a donut

and on the right is a foam cut into a donut AND into a flat disk, so it has no foam to wrap around the earbud, just sit on the front.

The idea is to put the disk inside the donut then put both on the earbud. This way you get a double thickness foam without the loss of clarity associated with dense heigi foams, you also don’t lose that great seal from the thin foam because it’s still only one foam wide, the extra depth of the layered foams also give a better seal improving the SQ.

I’m using this combo on ALL of my earbuds now because of how effective it is.

...it’s just a b€&@! to fit without a tweezers and patience. It won’t always work on first try but once it’s fitted I have not noticed it falling out ever.

Try at your own curiosity... they need to manufacture foams like this to buy, normal foams are never ‘right’.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 23, 2017)

chaiyuta said:


> Thanks, I just known that it is smaller than apple earpods (very first gen) (16.0mm), Pk-shell (16.1-16.3mm) and typical MX shell (16.9mm), therefore mostly Asian ears which have smaller ear than western are preferable.


You need to add like 2 foams to get a good fit in my experience so the size in reality is betweenpk shell and mx500 shell.

It’s not the diameter of masya that’s the issue, it’s the thickness of the front driver shell, it’s so thin that it will fall out of your ear without double foams.

My ears aren’t that small but the pk shell just fits everybody in my experience, nothing comes close.


----------



## KookaBurrra (Nov 23, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> He wasn’t wrong about the BS1 it’s a pretty good earbud for the price. I own it so I’ll let you know an unbiased opinion of it’s flaws



Maybe, I do not know, I believe you. ^-^

But he posted a lot of reviews on many earbuds and it's the same every time: more an infomercial than a real criticism... the world of Care Bears (to not annoy any supplier?)!
Just take a look on his review and said me your opinion https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/member/bloodypenguin.193679/ After a while, this is no longer believable, in my opinion, an it's just MY feeling on it! :-/



seanc6441 said:


> - vocals don’t come out infront of the mids, so they do lack an excitement on tracks that don’t emphasise the vocals, although they do sound clear and relatively detailed.
> - The soundstage is wide but lacks depth. So you get a nice space for instruments but they don’t have great expansion on atmospheric tracks.
> This earbud would be good for pop and acoustic music, other genres would lack some excitement with it’s presentation.





> The sound experience is quite wonderful. There is an immediate silky playback, that gives the mids a front seat, making way for some epic vocals. Bass is very much present, but is not boomy. Instead the lows go for subtle, accurate rumble. Highs are just darn near perfect for my liking. Rolling off the treble long before they can get anywhere near harsh, but without giving up detail. There is abundant clarity throughout all frequencies. Overall this is a VERY enjoyable earbud.



You give reservations, faults, bad points ... And what about him? It only says the positive things that make pretty and envy. Like in a ad, not like in a impartial review! It is boring to read and misleading. I have to said it, sorry.


----------



## Paradoxus

Just wanted to chime in and extend my gratitude to all here who have helped. 

Today my Svara L arrived (i requested for the "Svara" logo imprinted on the cover instead of the escase one). Have no idea what the impedence is. For some reason, the bass is absolutely not what i was expecting. I've only listened for a very short while, but I seem to prefer the bass from my EMX500 and Vidos. The Svara build, while nice, is extremely odd, and maybe I'm not getting a proper fit. They seem much bigger than the PK shells. Does anyone have any suggestions?

A couple of pages back, I shared that I was looking for basshead earbuds, and now have the EMX500, Vido, TY HiZ 32, TY HiZ 150, VE Monks+, and some others. Am really looking forward to receiving my Campfred 2s! Herry just shipped them out today and was so kind to send a pic as well (I requested for L plug and a slider).


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 23, 2017)

KookaBurrra said:


> Maybe, I do not know, I believe you. ^-^
> 
> But he posted a lot of reviews on many earbuds and it's the same every time: more an infomercial than a real criticism... the world of Care Bears (to not annoy any supplier?)!
> Just take a look on his review and said me your opinion https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/member/bloodypenguin.193679/ After a while, this is no longer believable, in my opinion, an it's just MY feeling on it! :-/
> ...


I don’t disagree with any of your points. I’m always suspicious when people ‘waltz’ in give a review and aren’t seen until the next one. When every post feels like a promotion then you know somethings up. But it’s up to us to have our BS radar activated if need be, and let others come to the same conclusion.

Every single review on headfi that the item was received “for free/for a discount” has the potential to be biased. I think it’s up to the users themselves to try discern what sounds like objective reviewing and what doesn’t.

Weighing multiple reviews of the same item is usually a good way of finding out a true reflection of the product. Like if all the reviews say the earbud has good bass then it probably has good bass. Go with the majority of answers and cut out the outliers!


----------



## KookaBurrra

seanc6441 said:


> I don’t disagree with any of your points. I’m always suspicious when people ‘waltz’ in give a review and aren’t seen until the next one. When every post feels like a promotion then you know somethings up. But it’s up to us to have our BS radar activated if need be, and let others come to the same conclusion.
> 
> Every single review on headfi that the item was received “for free/for a discount” has the potential to be biased. I think it’s up to the users themselves to try discern what sounds like objective reviewing and what doesn’t.



Totally agree with you!


----------



## noknok23

Imo bloodypenguin doesn't owe anything to anyone and if you don't like his reviews you can just ignore theses


----------



## groucho69

KookaBurrra said:


> All @*BloodyPenguin *reviews looks like an advertisement. Never faults, never bad, really?
> Free earbuds against sweet words? I must say that I do not like to see this here... (just my opinion, of course!!)



You are always able to add your own review.


----------



## seanc6441

noknok23 said:


> Imo bloodypenguin doesn't owe anything to anyone and if you don't like his reviews you can just ignore theses


fair point! as I said people should judge for themselves by reading many reviews.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> The only foam combination that completely satisfied me, actually it’s perfect for me



My ears are itchy just looking at that!


----------



## BrunoC

Yes, people should judge for themselves.
I understand that many people get excited when they receive a brand new earbud, so there's always a bias there due to the "new toy" effect. That's because we're humans. 
I'm not referring to anyone in particular.

IMO the only relevant reviews are those that analyse the GOOD and BAD points.


----------



## romanov89

Im new here. Seeing cleos collection is like wondering if i have the life to try them all out. 

Anw, just obtain ve monk plus candy. Im in search of high impedance earbud But cheap.. not super cheap like ve monk..

Is there any?

Anw im pairing up with cayin c5


----------



## waynes world (Nov 23, 2017)

romanov89 said:


> Im new here. Seeing cleos collection is like wondering if i have the life to try them all out.
> 
> Anw, just obtain ve monk plus candy. Im in search of high impedance earbud But cheap.. not super cheap like ve monk..
> 
> ...



Seahf AWK-F150C High Impedance In Ear Earphone are driven very nicely off of the C5 (especially if you're looking for a lot more bass).


----------



## noknok23 (Nov 23, 2017)

romanov89 said:


> high impedance earbud But cheap


K's 300 is one to think of
@Santojob Penon audio is an honest seller and I think he will be willing to re send you an unit or refund if you message him.


----------



## j4100

romanov89 said:


> Im new here. Seeing cleos collection is like wondering if i have the life to try them all out.
> 
> Anw, just obtain ve monk plus candy. Im in search of high impedance earbud But cheap.. not super cheap like ve monk..
> 
> ...



I'll also recommend the Seahf AWK-F150C. Really like this one. For the price, I don't see any downsides to it (for my tastes).


----------



## KookaBurrra (Nov 23, 2017)

groucho69 said:


> You are always able to add your own review.


Haha, I knew someone going to said that! 

When we post a review, we expose ourselves to comments about it, sometimes positive, sometimes negative: it's the game, right?
I also have the right to give my opinion about what he says, his reviews are public and my comments too. And it's just my opinion, so...


----------



## mochill

Echobox audio explorer on sale for _329


----------



## HungryPanda

KookaBurrra said:


> Haha, I knew someone going to said that!
> 
> When we post a review, we expose ourselves to comments about it, sometimes positive, sometimes negative: it's the game, right?
> I also have the right to give my opinion about what he says, his reviews are public and my comments too. And it's just my opinion, so...



So what exactly do you think is bad about about the Penon BS1. To criticize a post you do not agree with surely a counterpoint must be made. If you have not heard the BS1 then you have no point in interjecting. It may well have no flaws or bad points


----------



## Santojob

noknok23 said:


> K's 300 is one to think of
> @Santojob Penon audio is an honest seller and I think he will be willing to re send you an unit or refund if you message him.


Thank you very much for your advice, I have sent a message to Penon from the aliexpress order page (which is where I made the purchase). I think an earbud of that price can not sound like that and that's why I mention it. Some problem must have the earbud and I would like to change it.


----------



## KookaBurrra (Nov 23, 2017)

HungryPanda said:


> So what exactly do you think is bad about about the Penon BS1. To criticize a post you do not agree with surely a counterpoint must be made. If you have not heard the BS1 then you have no point in interjecting. It may well have no flaws or bad points


Did you really read what I first said? I don't think so!


KookaBurrra said:


> All @*BloodyPenguin *reviews looks like an advertisement. Never faults, never bad, really?
> Free earbuds against sweet words? I must say that I do not like to see this here... (just my opinion, of course!!)


I said that all his earbuds reviews are always honeyed and nice. Of all the earbuds he tested he had only wonderful and fantastic earbuds? This is a great chance ... 

You think that's not the case? Ok, no problem. it's your opinion and you can have it : anyway, let me think what I want, and share it if I want, please. Thanks.


----------



## noknok23 (Nov 23, 2017)

Santojob said:


> Thank you very much for your advice, I have sent a message to Penon from the aliexpress order page (which is where I made the purchase). I think an earbud of that price can not sound like that and that's why I mention it. Some problem must have the earbud and I would like to change it.


let us know how it goes, its always good to hear each other experience about this kind of things. I myself was very impressed with Venture Electronics after service, I had a defective units after a month (not the monks though, a higher priced model), and he resend them with express shipping when I showed proof of destroying the one i own. VE is a brand you can trust imo, they stand behind their products


----------



## DBaldock9

KookaBurrra said:


> Did you really read what I first said? I don't think so!
> 
> I said that all his earbuds reviews are always honeyed and nice. Of all the earbuds he tested he had only wonderful and fantastic earbuds? This is a great chance ...
> 
> You think that's not the case? Ok, no problem. it's your opinion and you can have it : anyway, let me think what I want, and share it if I want, please. Thanks.



Everyone is free to think what they want, but when posts are made, with veiled accusations against other forum members - "_Free earbuds against sweet words? I must say that I do not like to see this here..._" - then the Forum Guidelines are probably being broken - https://www.head-fi.org/articles/posting-guidelines.14048/


----------



## KookaBurrra (Nov 23, 2017)

@*DBaldock9* Really?
It's a question, not an affirmation...

And :


> Please DON'T reply If someone makes an off-topic, rude or otherwise inappropriate comment, or a post appears to be trolling or spam. Report it by clicking on the red flag and filling in the box explaining what the problem is and let the moderators take care of it (Please do not directly PM the moderators). If something is inappropriate or rude, what is the point of giving it more attention by replying to it and/or quoting it?!? If someone starts a fire, you wouldn't set other things on fire with it, so please don't go and do the equivalent here. If nobody replies 100% of the time the person stops!


...


----------



## Saoshyant

You did reply kookaburrra.

Also,  as many of us trust that particular reviewer, we are not concerned.  Justin has always been a delight for as long as I've been here, and welcome any input he has.


----------



## eaglesgift

I don't put any store in the opinion of anybody who gets free products in exchange for reviews. There is a clear conflict of interest: start posting genuinely critical reviews and your supply of goodies gets cut off. That's not directed at any particular reviewers on here, just my personal opinion of the practice of reviewing products that are given away by manufacturers and/or vendors. Of course, independent blog sites that review hundreds or thousands of different earphones probably couldn't afford to do so without receiving freebies but here, on a discussion forum, it doesn't sit well with me because such reviews are mixed in with ordinary reviews from people who have purchased the same products, which creates confusion in the minds of casual readers. Regular forum readers may be able to identify those who only give glowing reviews but people who arrive here via Google may assume they are genuine consumer reviews, which they are not.


----------



## groucho69 (Nov 23, 2017)

Exactly, trust who you want


----------



## Orac

Quid pro quo has always existed between reviewers and product suppliers. Nobody should be naive about any form of paid review, it really is a part of the advertising and marketing.

At best the reviewer will be polite and try hard to avoid causing offence, and write criticism very diplomatically so that readers can read between the lines. Other times the reviewer may be more cynical and not want to bite the hand that feeds them free stuff, or pays their salary, so they will completely avoid any negativity. Sometimes the reviewer is happy to outright lie in exchange for money or gifts.

There are good reviewers on this forum who try to be even handed, but it's human nature that their words will be more cautious when it's time to be critical. But we also have to be aware of end users who buy with their own money - there is sometimes a tendency to be overly enthusiastic to feel good about the purchase, or damn a product excessively when it doesn't live up to expectations.

For myself, ideally I like to see how people feel a few months after the hype and novelty has worn of, and learn what was just flavor of the month and what will stand the test of time.


----------



## groucho69

The people who have the ability to write a comprehensive and informative review are a rather small number. It is a learned art and science. To those who possess the skills I say BRAVO and THANK YOU!


----------



## HungryPanda

Yinman 150 ohms in the house


----------



## romanov89

Thank you for your reply @waynes world , @noknok23 and @j4100 for the reply.. k300 and hot seahf 150 will look up into them. 

I read somewhere, is it true high impedance earbud  can sound similar to a high impedance headphones?


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 23, 2017)

romanov89 said:


> Thank you for your reply @waynes world , @noknok23 and @j4100 for the reply.. k300 and hot seahf 150 will look up into them.
> 
> I read somewhere, is it true high impedance earbud  can sound similar to a high impedance headphones?



I think that depends on the price/performance level of earbud you buy. There are a few TOTL earbuds (some high impedance, some not) that get close to hifi grade headphone quality but I think impedance is a design choice, of either how you want your earbuds to be used (mobile source or desktop amp etc) and I guess in a sense because more of the heavy duty amp/dac gear is usually more expensive and of higher quality it may sound better. But there’s low impedance buds that sound incredible too, given the right high quality mobile source.

Impendance isn’t a reliable way to judge an earbuds SQ, only a general rule of thumb that high impedance earbuds usually cost more because they are made for more expensive gear than the majority of low impendance buds which are made for mobile sources.


----------



## springbay

Ok, I'm fed up with all the nonsense posted by various long time members during the last couple of pages.
When product placement is not taken for BS (pun intended) and people that were naive enough to fall for the V*pman scam, ask me to be more transparent when I post advice to newcomers, while others report my posts to the mods, this thread is dead to me.
I'm always open for giving advice via DM, but I'm unsubscribing from the buds thread for now.
It's been fun and costly during the last two years, but enough is enough.


----------



## noknok23

@springbay that's a shame cos your feedbacks were quite helpful, at least to me.

But no worries, we'll keep a seat for you when nirvana comes out


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I feel I should post something as it seems there has been a lot of general discussion of my mini-reviews of late.

Anyone who knows me, will be aware of my love for earbuds.  I very much enjoy listening to them and doing photo shoots.  I am fortunate enough to have access to a large number of earbuds to review.  

That said, I have never spoken well of an earbud I did not truly like.  My reviews may not be as harsh, or as detailed than others, but that does not make them any less true for me.

I will agree, I don't really review many earbuds that I don't like.  I do focus more on the ones that I enjoy and want to share with Head-Fi community.    

In real life, I am happy go lucky and I focus more on the good than on the bad for the most part.  I enjoy life and I enjoy my earbuds.


----------



## chellity (Nov 24, 2017)

headfi is serious business, boys.  maybe we shouldn't talk about touchy subjects like religion, politics or the semantics of earbud reviews at the thanksgiving table


----------



## Danneq

KookaBurrra said:


> Haha, I knew someone going to said that!
> 
> When we post a review, we expose ourselves to comments about it, sometimes positive, sometimes negative: it's the game, right?
> I also have the right to give my opinion about what he says, his reviews are public and my comments too. And it's just my opinion, so...



Actually, I cannot remember BloodyPenguin ever saying anything negative about any earbud, no matter if he bought them himself or if he received a sample for review. I've always seen it as him looking mainly at the positive aspects of earbuds.


----------



## theoutsider

chellity said:


> headfi is serious business, boys.  maybe we shouldn't talk about touchy subjects like religion, politics or the semantics of earbud reviews at the thanksgiving table


Why so serious Hehehehe


----------



## KookaBurrra

BloodyPenguin said:


> That said, I have never spoken well of an earbud I did not truly like.  My reviews may not be as harsh, or as detailed than others, but that does not make them any less true for me.
> 
> I will agree, I don't really review many earbuds that I don't like.  I do focus more on the ones that I enjoy and want to share with Head-Fi community.
> 
> In real life, I am happy go lucky and I focus more on the good than on the bad for the most part.  I enjoy life and I enjoy my earbuds.



Thanks for your honest response! 
Poeple also need to know the weak points of earbuds before buy it, and they might be disappointed with their purchase if they buy after reading your reviews with just positive aspects. You do not think ?
Did you post somewhere the list of earbuds that you did not like? Seen all those you tested, it would be very useful information, clearly!
In addition, write in the reviews of this topic *if they are earbuds that you paid or if they are free samples* would also be a useful element for everyone.


----------



## Saoshyant

Danneq said:


> Actually, I cannot remember BloodyPenguin ever saying anything negative about any earbud, no matter if he bought them himself or if he received a sample for review. I've always seen it as him looking mainly at the positive aspects of earbuds.



It's something I've noticed Jude does as well.


----------



## BrunoC

Saoshyant said:


> It's something I've noticed Jude does as well.



Then that's not a review. A review must analyste the positive and negatives aspects of the item...


----------



## Saoshyant

BrunoC said:


> Then that's not a review. A review must analyste the positive and negatives aspects of the item...



You do realize who I'm talking abouy, right?


----------



## BrunoC

Saoshyant said:


> You do realize who I'm talking abouy, right?



Not really. I was just posting my opinion about what must be contained in a review. A impression of only the good points is not a review.


----------



## Saoshyant

I'm sure Jude has said something negative in his reviews, either video or written, but I always remember them being quite positive.  He's the face of head-fi.


----------



## kurtextrem

I really wonder what you guys would buy: TY Hi-Z HP-150s (T1) or TY Hi-Z AWK-F150TS for gaming (= 3D positioning sound important and footsteps - which are mids I think)?
The only thing I can say is, I really like Shozy Cygnus and BK and Mr Z Tomahawk "hurts" my ears (I'm not sure which 'thing' hurts, but I think the mids or highs of it).


----------



## j4100

I normally use my DT150s for gaming, but now I have an extension cable from my dac, I'll need to give some buds a try.


----------



## Santojob

HungryPanda said:


> Yinman 150 ohms in the house



First of all to thank UngryPanda for its excellent recommendation: the **** XBA 6in1, I am very happy, I really like the sound profile of that iem (excellent bass, clear voices and strong treble (too many?) ... yes with some Spinfit. Waiting for your impressions of the Yinman 150.

Regards


----------



## seanc6441

kurtextrem said:


> I really wonder what you guys would buy: TY Hi-Z HP-150s (T1) or TY Hi-Z AWK-F150TS for gaming (= 3D positioning sound important and footsteps - which are mids I think)?
> The only thing I can say is, I really like Shozy Cygnus and BK and Mr Z Tomahawk "hurts" my ears (I'm not sure which 'thing' hurts, but I think the mids or highs of it).


Which hurts your ears? tomahawk or bk? or both?


----------



## kurtextrem

Only Tomahawk. Shozy BK and Cygnus are perfect  (In fact no other earbuds I own "hurt", but something in Tomahawks sounds does)


----------



## waynes world

kurtextrem said:


> Only Tomahawk. Shozy BK and Cygnus are perfect  (In fact no other earbuds I own "hurt", but something in Tomahawks sounds does)



For me, It's usually either "too much bass" (actually makes my ears sore) or "grating highs" (actually makes my ears bleed lol). Not sure which it is for you!


----------



## vladstef

kurtextrem said:


> Only Tomahawk. Shozy BK and Cygnus are perfect  (In fact no other earbuds I own "hurt", but something in Tomahawks sounds does)



Perhaps it could be the fit. I had this issue with Auglamour RX1, it kinda hurt my ears when I had bad "seal" yet RX-1 sounds so mellow and subdued in reality. Just a thought, maybe it's indeed the tonality of Tomahawks.


----------



## kurtextrem

waynes world said:


> For me, It's usually either "too much bass" (actually makes my ears sore) or "grating highs" (actually makes my ears bleed lol). Not sure which it is for you!


I think it's the latter - definitely not the bass. Never heard anyone complain about 150s' mids so I go for it


----------



## xavierng1

kurtextrem said:


> Only Tomahawk. Shozy BK and Cygnus are perfect  (In fact no other earbuds I own "hurt", but something in Tomahawks sounds does)



same here, i can't listen to the tomahawks for a long period of time. It is kind of tiring to my ears


----------



## gazzington

I can happily use tomahawks but with foams on. Great for metal but then I switch to mx500 for all my hip hop music.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 24, 2017)

kurtextrem said:


> Only Tomahawk. Shozy BK and Cygnus are perfect  (In fact no other earbuds I own "hurt", but something in Tomahawks sounds does)



Yeah the tomahawks have that peaky treble that will hurt on treble emphasised music. Full foams is almost always a necessity. But when mine were still in one piece hooked up to the right source and the right EQing they did sound wonderful. The previously metallic and cold mids became clean and neutral with a suprisingly full sound, treble was still strong but not peaky and so you could adjust the eq to make it very tolerable. Bass was of nice quantity and very high quality (IMO).

Those little guys were not easy to love but with the right care they punched wayyyy above their price. This is why i think some rated them so highly (clieos had them in top half of contenders) yet others completely abused them in the comments lol.

For instance if I jog my memory and tried to compare to the DIY Grapene I'd say that under the right conditions the hawks where slightly better in texture and resolution. Even the previously meh vocals gained some real emphasis and weight. Everything was just lovely and really engaging to listen to.

Then again I can't make that statement without trying the graphene's on the same source. Could be a game changer


----------



## waynes world

rkw said:


> You can use a bluetooth receiver such as the FiiO BTR1 (just one example — there are others). Then you can use your favorite earbud.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fiio-btr1-bluetooth-headphone-amplifier-aptx-discrete-dac.850675/



Like I said before, I'm really glad that you pointed that one out. Some pics:







One is being shipped to me, and I'm pretty sure it's going to make me look as happy as this lady:






To my ears, my phone (S7 edge exynos) sounds great, and I have been listening to it so much lately that it has basically taken over DAP duties. I was also enjoying streaming Tidal and Frisky radio off of it. So I started to also want to get into bluetooth capabilities so that my phone could be free, and I bought a few different bluetooth items (August EP650's which actually sound rather great when EQ'd and made me a believer in bluetooth technology in general), and more recently the NiceCHK HB1 bluetooth cable that I could start using with mmcx earbuds (I haven't received it yet).

But I realize that I don't really want to start buying a whole bunch of bluetooth headphones and/or cables and/or earbuds with mmcx connectors etc. What I _really_ want is to be able listen to my wired inventory of buds and headphones, but without being wired to my phone. The bluetooth gizmo would need the following qualities: (a) small and light; (b) have a clip on it; (c) support bluetooth 4.1 and greater; support APTX; (d) sound great; (e) not be too expensive.

For a long time I was lusting over the Cayin N3 as a DAP and also to be able to use for the above purposes. But alas, it doesn't receive APTX, and also, I realized that I'm actually happier with using my phone as my main main DAP.

So on paper, that Fiio BTR1 looks like it will be the solution for me. Another benefit for me is that I'll be able to hook it up to my stereo when desired and control it from my phone across the room. Bonus.

I'll keep you posted on how well it works out!

Fwiw, the BTR1 doesn't currently receive in AAC from apple devices (which is kind of the equivalent of APTX for non-apple devices), so be aware of this if you have an iphone etc. Read the above quoted thread for more information about that.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 24, 2017)

waynes world said:


> Like I said before, I'm really glad that you pointed that one out. Some pics:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Is this really more convenient than wired to a phone? I mean I understand the push for true wireless technology. I even somewhat understand the wired bluetooth adapter that hangs behind the neck especially for jogging and fitness or working with yours hands as a wire can get in your way.

But this thing looks quiet big and too heavy to clip onto a shirt neckline like shown in the picture,. Who wants to dangle a matchbox sized thingy on their shirt? It's not exactly subtle either.

Just my initial feelings looking at that thing in the pictures. Inform me if I'm wrong hehe


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Is this really more convenient than wired to a phone? I mean I understand the push for true wireless technology. I even somewhat understand the wired bluetooth adapter that hangs behind the neck especially for jogging and fitness or working with yours hands as a wire can get in your way.
> 
> But this thing looks quiet big and too heavy to clip onto a shirt neckline like shown in the picture,. Who wants to dangle a matchbox sized thingy on their shirt? It's not exactly subtle either.
> 
> Just my initial feelings looking at that thing in the pictures. Inform me if I'm wrong hehe



It probably isn't the right gizmo for you. But I usually have my earbuds (or headphone) cable running down the _inside_ of my shirt and to the phone which is in a belt holster. I really don't like having the cable hanging loose on the outside of my shirt (often gets caught on things etc). So because I like to wear them this way, having the cables attached to the phone is a pain whenever I want to take my phone out of it's holster and use it for browsing etc (including sometimes just wanting to leave it on my desk). What I'll do with the btr1 is have it also clipped to my belt or in a pocket (I doubt I will ever have it clipped to my shirt like in that photo), and my phone will be happily untethered. So for me, that will be much more convenient. And also the application of having it attached to my stereo will offer a lot of convenience as well.


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> It probably isn't the right gizmo for you. But I usually have my earbuds (or headphone) cable running down the _inside_ of my shirt and to the phone which is in a belt holster. I really don't like having the cable hanging loose on the outside of my shirt (often gets caught on things etc). So because I like to wear them this way, having the cables attached to the phone is a pain whenever I want to take my phone out of it's holster and use it for browsing etc (including sometimes just wanting to leave it on my desk). What I'll do with the btr1 is have it also clipped to my belt or in a pocket (I doubt I will ever have it clipped to my shirt like in that photo), and my phone will be happily untethered. So for me, that will be much more convenient. And also the application of having it attached to my stereo will offer a lot of convenience as well.


Ok that sounds useful actually lol

I usually dislike wearing the wire inside my shirt/t shirt. Feels weird xD. So I was trying to see the use for this 

Clipping it to a belt makes sense, still skeptical about the stock image of yer one with it clipped to her shirt, no way that is convenient


----------



## BloodyPenguin

What you see here is Wong Kuan Wae's - *Blur 32 SPC*.

The build is just amazing, like all of his earbuds. I love the red and blue wire wraps inside the clear housings to show the correct stereo outputs. The SPC cable is as slick as it looks, though a touch sticky. The splitter is Wong Kuan Wae's signature copper wrapped wire that adds a great weight when wearing the Blur 32. The 3.5mm plug is simple, but effective, though I think additional strain relief from the cable to the plug would be beneficial.

The sound itself is tuned to be warm, yet detailed. And I will say that Wong did a spot on job with that. The bass goes deep. Lows are full through out the sub and mid bass with only a little leakage into the mids. Vocals are more relaxed, making for an easier listening approach. Highs are decently detailed and bring more emphasis than the mids. Soundstage seems wide for this type of warm tune.

I think Beck's "WOW" is prime example of a song intended for the Blur 32. Showing off very good sub-bass and giving way to Mr. Hansen's vocals in his typical carefree laid back tone. The synthesized flutes in the background are well tamed by the Blur 32's treble response.

Overall Wong Kuan Wae's - Blur 32 SPC is quite the fun earbud. Intended for casual, easy going listening. Though, if you are looking for more of a neutral, analytical playback, I suggest going for my favorite earbud, Wong's 300ohm Blur.


_(Photos as always taken by me)_






















**Disclaimer - I have bought many of Wong Kuan Wae's earbuds with my own money, but the Blur 32 SPC was given to me as a gift.  I was not paid to write this in anyway.  I like long walks on the beach.  My favorite animal is a penguin.  I own over 100 earbuds. Beats are the worst.  My wife has no idea how much I spent on all my audio gear.  I secretly like all of Katy Perry's music.  I am 5'3" tall.  I wish I had saved all of my old cassette players.  I can run extremely fast.  My nickname in Junior High was "Stumpy".  I got lost with reviews, I started to think only of how the music sounded and I did not enjoy it as much until I started getting into Earbuds. I wish I could make my own DIY earbuds, but I do not have the time.  My wife is from Guatemala.  I like fast cars and I have spent way too much $$ on them over the years, I am looking to get a 911 soon.  I think Tron: Legacy is a very good movie.*


----------



## waynes world

BloodyPenguin said:


> What you see here is Wong Kuan Wae's - *Blur 32 SPC*.
> 
> The build is just amazing, like all of his earbuds. I love the red and blue wire wraps inside the clear housings to show the correct stereo outputs. The SPC cable is as slick as it looks, though a touch sticky. The splitter is Wong Kuan Wae's signature copper wrapped wire that adds a great weight when wearing the Blur 32. The 3.5mm plug is simple, but effective, though I think additional strain relief from the cable to the plug would be beneficial.
> 
> ...



Nice review, and most entertaining disclaimer!


----------



## seanc6441

BloodyPenguin said:


> What you see here is Wong Kuan Wae's - *Blur 32 SPC*.
> 
> The build is just amazing, like all of his earbuds. I love the red and blue wire wraps inside the clear housings to show the correct stereo outputs. The SPC cable is as slick as it looks, though a touch sticky. The splitter is Wong Kuan Wae's signature copper wrapped wire that adds a great weight when wearing the Blur 32. The 3.5mm plug is simple, but effective, though I think additional strain relief from the cable to the plug would be beneficial.
> 
> ...


Upvote for Katy Perry.


----------



## j4100

BloodyPenguin said:


> *My wife has no idea how much I spent on all my audio gear.*



Amen. My wife knows I had some extra gear this week, but has no idea the number of amps has jumped to 4 and another batch of buds are due next week...


----------



## HungryPanda

Those do look very nice BloodyPenguin


----------



## kurtextrem

seanc6441 said:


> Yeah the tomahawks have that peaky treble that will hurt on treble emphasised music. Full foams is almost always a necessity. But when mine were still in one piece hooked up to the right source and the right EQing they did sound wonderful. The previously metallic and cold mids became clean and neutral with a suprisingly full sound, treble was still strong but not peaky and so you could adjust the eq to make it very tolerable. Bass was of nice quantity and very high quality (IMO).
> 
> Those little guys were not easy to love but with the right care they punched wayyyy above their price. This is why i think some rated them so highly (clieos had them in top half of contenders) yet others completely abused them in the comments lol.
> 
> ...


I wonder if the 150s has peaky treble too? Not sure.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 24, 2017)

Anyone here ever tried the shozy lancea dac/amp on their phone/dap? Looks pretty nice and compact and is reduced to €66.

Only 2 reviews on headfi and I don’t know how it pairs with earbuds. The size though... so tempted to buy it for it’s portability and full metal case.

@kurtextrem no idea mate


----------



## noknok23 (Nov 24, 2017)

BloodyPenguin said:


> What you see here is Wong Kuan Wae's - *Blur 32 SPC*.
> 
> The build is just amazing, like all of his earbuds. I love the red and blue wire wraps inside the clear housings to show the correct stereo outputs. The SPC cable is as slick as it looks, though a touch sticky. The splitter is Wong Kuan Wae's signature copper wrapped wire that adds a great weight when wearing the Blur 32. The 3.5mm plug is simple, but effective, though I think additional strain relief from the cable to the plug would be beneficial.
> 
> ...


and shoot out to Wong's wife (don't know her name sorry) for crafting these adorable leather pouch. Wong's earbuds feels as fancy as a nice watch to me

@seanc6441 Don't remember where but i read theses shozy amp were mediocre, I would pass. You got quite good ears; - ) imo you should save some money and aim for something higher


----------



## seanc6441

kurtextrem said:


> I wonder if the 150s has peaky treble too? Not sure.





noknok23 said:


> and shoot out to Wong's wife (don't know her name sorry) for crafting these adorable leather pouch. Wong's earbuds feels as fancy as a nice watch to me
> 
> @seanc6441 Don't remember where but i read theses shozy amp were mediocre, I would pass. You got quite good ears; - ) imo you should save some money and aim for something higher


Well it was maybe a plan B if my hifime sbare 9018 didn’t work with my iphone, since this is supposedly easy to connect. But thanks, I’ll be trying the sabre dac first hoping it’s the perfect match for my bk and masya buds!


----------



## waynes world (Nov 24, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> Anyone here ever tried the shozy lancea dac/amp on their phone/dap? Looks pretty nice and compact and is reduced to €66.
> 
> Only 2 reviews on headfi and I don’t know how it pairs with earbuds. The size though... so tempted to buy it for it’s portability and full metal case.
> 
> @kurtextrem no idea mate



It sounds pretty good based on peter123's review. I have the zuperdac (approx €55), and the shozy seems to compare favorably to it:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/zorloo-zuperdac.21156/reviews



Spoiler: Compared to zuperdac...



*SHOZY Lancea (originally $179 now $99) vs Zorloo ZuperDAC:*
The SHOZY Lancea and the ZuperDAC sounds really similar. They both have a slight raise in the mid bass department and the treble rolls off a bit more early than I’d describe as natural on both, maybe even slightly earlier on the ZuperDAC but the difference is very subtle. The Lancea has ever so slightly tighter bass across the whole lower spectrum. The ZuperDAC is a touch darker while the Lancea has an equally small amount of more energy in the upper midrange presentation making it sound slightly crispier but apart from this they’re very similar. The combination of the rolled off treble and lack of energy once again makes the ZuperDAC the most relaxed of the two. 

The Lancea is smaller that the ZuperDAC, maybe about half of its size and is connected to the source through a female micro USB port.

Both have a single 3,5mm output but that acts as a line out function when maxing out the volume.

The ZuperDAC get a good deal warmer while they both offer a similar amount of power. 

The Lance is very well suited to be paired with Android devices due to its lesser power demands and high compatibility with such devices while the battery drain from the ZuperDAC makes an external battery mandatory with it in my opinion.

Both are very quiet (little background hiss).

The Lancea supports up to 20bit/48kHz sample rate while the ZuperDAC supports up to 24bit/192kHz.



If you get it, hopefully you can return it though if you are not satisfied with it.

Do you mainly plan on having it connected to your laptop or to your phone? If your phone, it will be a hassle.


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> It sounds pretty good based on peter123's review. I have the zuperdac (approx €55), and the shozy seems to compare favorably to it:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/zorloo-zuperdac.21156/reviews
> 
> ...


with my phone. Why do you say it will be a hassle? The lancea seems pretty smalland power efficient but probably not as good as the hifime sabre dac I bought on amazon.

But it’s smaller, much better constructed and may be a perfect solution for my iphone so if the sabre doesn’t work out... might try it.


----------



## waynes world (Nov 24, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> with my phone. Why do you say it will be a hassle? The lancea seems pretty smalland power efficient but probably not as good as the hifime sabre dac I bought on amazon.
> 
> But it’s smaller, much better constructed and may be a perfect solution for my iphone so if the sabre doesn’t work out... might try it.



For me, having anything attached to my phone is a hassle. I had the zuperdac attached to the back of my phone with 3m velcro type tape. It kinda worked ok (and sounds great), but would occasionally get knocked off of the phone and would end up dangling by the usb cable, or the usb cable would get bumped and would disconnect the dac from the phone etc. Hassle. Oh yeah, it drains the battery pretty quickly as well (although it sounds like the lancea will be better in that regard).


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> For me, having anything attached to my phone is a hassle. I had the zuperdac attached to the back of my phone with 3m velcro type tape. It kinda worked ok (and sounds great), but would occasionally get knocked off of the phone and would end up dangling by the usb cable, or the usb cable would get bumped and would disconnect the dac from the phone etc. Hassle. Oh yeah, it drains the battery pretty quickly as well (although it sounds like the lancea will be better in that regard).


Ah yeah that could be an issue, I’d have to think of ways to secure is as best as possible but also easily to remove whenever needed. I’ll be using the apple cck usb to lightning adapter and I’m hope it has a strong enough grip on the lightning port to now become loose easily, time will tell.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Ah yeah that could be an issue, I’d have to think of ways to secure is as best as possible but also easily to remove whenever needed. I’ll be using the apple cck usb to lightning adapter and I’m hope it has a strong enough grip on the lightning port to now become loose easily, time will tell.



"easily remove" reminds me that the micro usb cable I have connects to my S7 _very_ well. It makes it feel pretty secure, but on the flip side, makes it very challenging to remove (I would have to get pretty physical with it lol). I could tell that it would only be a matter of time until I broke something. Hopefully the connection to your lightning port is secure, but not super crazy secure!

Anyway, you'll enjoy the SQ out of those gizmos I'm sure. And they don't break the bank, so that's cool as well.


----------



## romanov89

seanc6441 said:


> I think that depends on the price/performance level of earbud you buy. There are a few TOTL earbuds (some high impedance, some not) that get close to hifi grade headphone quality but I think impedance is a design choice, of either how you want your earbuds to be used (mobile source or desktop amp etc) and I guess in a sense because more of the heavy duty amp/dac gear is usually more expensive and of higher quality it may sound better. But there’s low impedance buds that sound incredible too, given the right high quality mobile source.
> 
> Impendance isn’t a reliable way to judge an earbuds SQ, only a general rule of thumb that high impedance earbuds usually cost more because they are made for more expensive gear than the majority of low impendance buds which are made for mobile sources.



I see, i really wish to push the capability of my amp cayin c5..

Anyway ive look tru at aliexpress, there’s plenty of variety k300 but different. Which brand im suppose to look out for?


----------



## euge (Nov 24, 2017)

romanov89 said:


> I see, i really wish to push the capability of my amp cayin c5..
> 
> Anyway ive look tru at aliexpress, there’s plenty of variety k300 but different. Which brand im suppose to look out for?



Get the blue/silver samsara


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Like I said before, I'm really glad that you pointed that one out. Some pics:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i purchased this yesterday, still on shipping, I'll give a review once i have it
 


it doesn't support aptx, not really a problem because my tablet doesn't support them anyway (only my Xperia Z phone supports them, and i don't really hearing much difference between them). I'm interested on this because of the transmit and receive functions, also it has built-in microphone and volume/track skip controls


----------



## romanov89

euge said:


> Get the blue/silver samsara


Thanks @euge .. hmm any budget k300?


----------



## romanov89

Feeling bad for my fiancee buying for me shure 215.. and falling in love with earbud...


----------



## euge

romanov89 said:


> Thanks @euge .. hmm any budget k300?



I ordered the k300 pro during the sale should arrive next week


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> i purchased this yesterday, still on shipping, I'll give a review once i have it
> 
> 
> 
> it doesn't support aptx, not really a problem because my tablet doesn't support them anyway (only my Xperia Z phone supports them, and i don't really hearing much difference between them). I'm interested on this because of the transmit and receive functions, also it has built-in microphone and volume/track skip controls



Yes, there are quite a few mpow options out there for good prices. I hope it works out well for you!


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Yes, there are quite a few mpow options out there for good prices. I hope it works out well for you!



i hope so, i also want use it to stream bluetooth from my ipod to my other bluetooth earphones. I already have the Cayin N3, it's good enough for listening to spotify, but for watching movies and youtube is a no go because of the latency


----------



## chinmie (Nov 24, 2017)

woops, double posted


----------



## golov17

Saoshyant said:


> You did reply kookaburrra.
> 
> Also,  as many of us trust that particular reviewer, we are not concerned.  Justin has always been a delight for as long as I've been here, and welcome any input he has.


+1000


----------



## golov17

seanc6441 said:


> Upvote for Katy Perry.


 )))


----------



## Hifisnubben (Nov 24, 2017)

waynes world said:


> Like I said before, I'm really glad that you pointed that one out. Some pics:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you for pointing out that it doesnt do AAC. Was about to order one of these but that stopped me in my tracks since i only own apple products.

I would like to add a possible alternative for us that want AAC support. I found this device: Elecom PAR150BK

http://www2.elecom.co.jp/products/LBT-PAR150BK.html

From what i could find out from the manufacturers homepage ( all in japanese ) this one can indeed recieve AAC. Looking around i found it on ebay with free shipping from Japan, so i pulled the trigger in the name of science


----------



## jogawag

Please watch the "Earbud Survey" ranking result and vote for the ranking! I think that this would be a reference when purchasing new Earbuds. You need Google ID(like Gmail).
Price is divided into 5 tiers of /$0→, /$20→, /$50→, /$100→, /$200→.
You can vote 1 - 5 rating to any earbuds which you've used and can submit form. 
Then you can watch the new ranking result. The URL is as follows. Enjoy this!
https://goo.gl/gt1THD


----------



## KookaBurrra (Nov 25, 2017)

BloodyPenguin said:


> ***Disclaimer - I have bought many of Wong Kuan Wae's earbuds with my own money, *but the Blur 32 SPC was given to me as a gift.  I was not paid to write this in anyway.*



Sorry but Blur 32 SPC « as a Gift » is *your pay*, no one is fooled at this point. you just have to assume and it's perfectly clear to everyone. It does not matter, it's not forbidden, it is probably even the logical step, but it must be said with transparency so that the review is fair.

I said all I have to said at this subject, I‘m not do it again. Don't worry, the defenders!!  I know some guys here do not like this kind of truth (maybe they prefer to live without pecuniary logic but the world is like this: a trade!)...


----------



## euge

jogawag said:


> Please watch the "Earbud Survey" ranking result and vote for the ranking! I think that this would be a reference when purchasing new Earbuds. You need Google ID(like Gmail).
> Price is divided into 5 tiers of /$0→, /$20→, /$50→, /$100→, /$200→.
> You can vote 1 - 5 rating to any earbuds which you've used and can submit form.
> Then you can watch the new ranking result. The URL is as follows. Enjoy this!
> https://goo.gl/gt1THD



Seahf AWK-F150C !


----------



## xavierng1 (Nov 25, 2017)

KookaBurrra said:


> Sorry but Blur 32 SPC « as a Gift » is *your pay*, no one is fooled at this point. you just have to assume and it's perfectly clear to everyone. It does not matter, it's not forbidden, it is probably even the logical step, but it must be said with transparency so that the review is fair.
> 
> I said all I have to said at this subject, I‘m not do it again. Don't worry, the defenders!!  I know some guys here do not like this kind of truth (maybe they prefer to live without pecuniary logic but the world is like this: a trade!)...



i kind of disagree with what you said. You are only paid when you expect a payment in exchange of a review but in this case, it seems like it is a gift and the review is of his own free will. Anyway, nothing is really fair. Some people doesn't say the whole truth in reviews because they feel that what they paid is good( I see that a lot of time in headfi )(like a 10k usd cable that can hear to the gods talking to each other). Open your mind , i think i enjoy his reviews so far. You are given a choice, find the other reviewers and compare. You can also take initiative to ask the reviewer some questions(in open or in private), rather than expecting everything to be written for you. Reviewers are writing for the community , not just you 


 I saw your other comments, you seem like you like to see the world burn hahaha

i want to end this reply with a positive note. Let us just enjoy our earbuds and the music we love! cheers


----------



## KookaBurrra (Nov 25, 2017)

@xavierng1  : review of a product received as a gift? Who will say anything bad about a gift, who will "dare" make someone sad who offers you a gift, by saying negative things? No one!
Especially if you want to receive gifts again in the future, logical...

So, conclusion: a review of a gift = biased review. It's human nature, it would be the case with everyone (me first, of course). I do not read this type of review because it does not bring me anything, they are too oriented.




xavierng1 said:


> You are only paid when you expect a payment in exchange of a review but in this case, it seems like it is a gift and the review is of his own free will.



Naive Vision of things, I think. This kind of earbuds are expensive. You really think that the gift is not made thinking that there will be a counterpart in exchange, seriously? Ok ... (but it's like that all the time, though)

How works Youtube reviewer and blog reviewer, you think? It's different, here?



xavierng1 said:


> You can also take initiative *to ask the reviewer some questions*(in open or in private), rather than expecting everything to be written for you.


I think it is what I do : answer the reviewer some questions about the provenance of the earbuds they are testing (and everyone seems to put blinkers, because I've never seen these questions before on the topic?)

Cheers, too.


----------



## Saoshyant

@KookaBurrra Where you feel others are being naive, some may feel you're being jaded.


----------



## xavierng1 (Nov 25, 2017)

KookaBurrra said:


> @xavierng1  : review of a product received as a gift? Who will say anything bad about a gift, who will "dare" make someone sad who offers you a gift, by saying negative things? No one!
> Especially if you want to receive gifts again in the future, logical...
> 
> So, conclusion: a review of a gift = biased review. It's human nature, it would be the case with everyone (me first, of course). I do not read this type of review because it does not bring me anything, they are too oriented.
> ...



i think you will be arguing on every replies i will be making, so i won't carry on with the meaningless "debates". Just have fun reading. Take *every* reviews with a pinch of salt.


----------



## golov17

Remembering how long I did not dare to jump on Mojito, I read all the reviews and impressions around the whole web. and when I got them, they sounded quite differently than other users described. a personal experience can not be replaced by reading about the sound, IMHO


----------



## Saoshyant

golov17 said:


> Remembering how long I did not dare to jump on Mojito, I read all the reviews and impressions around the whole web. and when I got them, they sounded quite differently than other users described. a personal experience can not be replaced by reading about the sound, IMHO



That's certainly quite correct.  One person's bassy might be anemic to another, and the same goes for all other aspects of sound.


----------



## chinmie

golov17 said:


> Remembering how long I did not dare to jump on Mojito, I read all the reviews and impressions around the whole web. and when I got them, they sounded quite differently than other users described. a personal experience can not be replaced by reading about the sound, IMHO



what's your personal impression on them?what foams do you use on them?


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 25, 2017)

KookaBurrra said:


> Sorry but Blur 32 SPC « as a Gift » is *your pay*, no one is fooled at this point. you just have to assume and it's perfectly clear to everyone. It does not matter, it's not forbidden, it is probably even the logical step, but it must be said with transparency so that the review is fair.
> 
> I said all I have to said at this subject, I‘m not do it again. Don't worry, the defenders!!  I know some guys here do not like this kind of truth (maybe they prefer to live without pecuniary logic but the world is like this: a trade!)...


In all fairness I think he was being very transparent and honest with that disclosure and I think Katy would agree.

I don’t think anybody is naive enough to not equate free gift as part of the deal. It’s up to individuals to make thier own conclusions but when he disclaims it and reviews the product I have no issue with that.

I’d take that offer too. Who doesn’t like free earbuds? lol

At the end of the day it’s pretty nice seeing the mini description and photographs taken by bloodypenguin. If you think of it more like a showcase exposing new earbuds to us and less like a critical review then there’s no issue at all 

Of course I00% agree with anybody receiving a free gift disclosing it first. That’s only fair to everyone involved.


----------



## KookaBurrra (Nov 25, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> At the end of the day it’s pretty nice seeing the mini description and photographs taken by bloodypenguin. If you think of it more like a showcase exposing new earbuds to us and less like a critical review then there’s no issue at all


100% agree ! Not a review and just a showcase, a product presentation. It’s true for me. And I like to see it in this way.


seanc6441 said:


> Of course I00% agree with anybody receiving a free gift disclosing it first. That’s only fair to everyone involved.


But before I ask for, the provenance of earbuds was never give and I also thinks it’s unwholesome.



BloodyPenguin said:


> *Penon BS1 "Experence"*. (Will be discounted 30% on Black Friday).
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/Penon-Audio-BS1-Dynamic-Driver-Earbud
> 
> ...



The provenance is not given: buying, loaning or Gift ? We do not know...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Oh! Look what just arrived!  The *TY Hi-Z F150TS*.  It was so beautiful, I had to post up a quick picture before I even gave them a listen. I paid $45 on the day it launched, it is now down to $37.50 for 4 more days!

https://penonaudio.com/TY-Hi-Z-F150TS






**Disclaimer, I really did pay $45 on the day of launch of these earbuds and I received no additional gifts.  I did however get $3.7 million USD placed into a secured Swiss Bank Account for making this post.  *


----------



## jogawag (Nov 25, 2017)

Braid RY4S has sharp treble than Original RY4S.
Comparing Braid RY4S and EMX500, Braid RY4S is similar in sound signature with EMX500.

But the Braid RY4S has a punchy bass. I like Braid RY4S's punchy bass more than EMX500's sound.
Perhaps Braid RY4S is the best Budget Earbuds for EDM. I recommend this.

https://aliexpress.com/item//32820438211.html


----------



## Rendster

I'm really new to this. Does TY Hi-Z 150s needs good amping? I see it's a pretty good earbud for its price range so i wonder of my redmi note 3 could drive the aforementioned earbud.


----------



## jogawag

Rendster said:


> I'm really new to this. Does TY Hi-Z 150s needs good amping? I see it's a pretty good earbud for its price range so i wonder of my redmi note 3 could drive the aforementioned earbud.


TY Hi-Z 150s is expensive and I hear that it needs good amping. So you should better to select Braid RY4S.


----------



## Danneq

BloodyPenguin said:


> What you see here is Wong Kuan Wae's - *Blur 32 SPC*.
> 
> The build is just amazing, like all of his earbuds. I love the red and blue wire wraps inside the clear housings to show the correct stereo outputs. The SPC cable is as slick as it looks, though a touch sticky. The splitter is Wong Kuan Wae's signature copper wrapped wire that adds a great weight when wearing the Blur 32. The 3.5mm plug is simple, but effective, though I think additional strain relief from the cable to the plug would be beneficial.
> 
> ...



KATE PERRY!?!?!


----------



## jant71

BloodyPenguin said:


> Oh! Look what just arrived!  The *TY Hi-Z F150TS*.  It was so beautiful, I had to post up a quick picture before I even gave them a listen. I paid $45 on the day it launched, it is now down to $37.50 for 4 more days!
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/TY-Hi-Z-F150TS
> 
> ...




Well, shame we can't believe anything @BloodyPenguin says about anything but at least we can look at the pictures! 

Seriously, even being another MX shell bud they have to be one of the coolest looking buds around. And no trouble telling right from left!


----------



## UsaGins

BloodyPenguin said:


> Oh! Look what just arrived!  The *TY Hi-Z F150TS*.  It was so beautiful, I had to post up a quick picture before I even gave them a listen. I paid $45 on the day it launched, it is now down to $37.50 for 4 more days!
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/TY-Hi-Z-F150TS
> 
> ...



Hello.
I am very interested.
I am very pleased if it can compare with TY Hi-Z HP-150s.


----------



## seanc6441

Oh boy... I’m having doubts about how I connected the 2 pin cables to my masya on day one... does it matter which way the LR signs are facing?? naturally i faced them in the same direction as the LR markings on the earbud itself... what if it was supposed to be the other side out? my god, is this my problem all along??

I could test it but im paranoid the jacks may not even be matched and ill have one good one bad. I’m hoping it’s irrelevant which side faces out but i read on an iem thread it matters? is this the case for dynamic drivers??


----------



## seanc6441

seanc6441 said:


> Oh boy... I’m having doubts about how I connected the 2 pin cables to my masya on day one... does it matter which way the LR signs are facing?? naturally i faced them in the same direction as the LR markings on the earbud itself... what if it was supposed to be the other side out? my god, is this my problem all along??
> 
> I could test it but im paranoid the jacks may not even be matched and ill have one good one bad. I’m hoping it’s irrelevant which side faces out but i read on an iem thread it matters? is this the case for dynamic drivers??


ok a sound test reveals it does matter if they are connected in the same way but im still not sure which direction (towards the front or towards the back) the LR markers should face.


----------



## Saoshyant

If I were you, I'd go to the KZ thread and look for a polarity test that someone who commonly posts there has in his signature.  It might help with the issue.


----------



## SweetEars

jogawag said:


> Braid RY4S has sharp treble than Original RY4S.
> Comparing Braid RY4S and EMX500, Braid RY4S is similar in sound signature with EMX500.
> 
> But the Braid RY4S has a punchy bass. I like Braid RY4S's punchy bass more than EMX500's sound.
> ...


the main differences is that the RY4S has more well defined soundstage left right up and down . depth is slightly less the EMX500


----------



## HungryPanda

On the Rose Masyas I have my cables with the letters on the cable in line with the ones on the buds and these earbuds sound great to me. I am plugging them in to a Fostex HPA4BL desktop amp though.


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> On the Rose Masyas I have my cables with the letters on the cable in line with the ones on the buds and these earbuds sound great to me. I am plugging them in to a Fostex HPA4BL desktop amp though.


yeah I reckon it’s just my source. If you put one cable lettering face out and the other face in you get a really weird audio delay in one ear which is instantly noticeable, but if you match them to me the difference is insignificant. So I don’t think it was my cable connection (same as yours above actually) was the issue.

I’ll report back when I have my new sabre dac in a few days.


----------



## kurtextrem

UsaGins said:


> Hello.
> I am very interested.
> I am very pleased if it can compare with TY Hi-Z HP-150s.


This!! @BloodyPenguin please compare those two


----------



## gravicap

Hi.
I am new in earbuds. Would be grateful for  any advice whether hifiman balanced amp card is enough make Zen 2.0 sound good? It has 477mW/3,91V@30 ohms and drives cans like A900x and DT250/250ohm pretty well.


----------



## SweetEars

on the subjects of foams i find the 

Monk VE thin foams give the best clarity and transparency at the expense of some bass and soundstage
the  cloth type foams give the best overall balance int terms of bass and  full soundstage 
donut foams give the best  treble soundstage and  more bass  with some  boxy bass


----------



## acap13

gravicap said:


> Hi.
> I am new in earbuds. Would be grateful for  any advice whether hifiman balanced amp card is enough make Zen 2.0 sound good? It has 477mW/3,91V@30 ohms and drives cans like A900x and DT250/250ohm pretty well.



It should be just fine.


----------



## ClieOS

Svara Pro
NiceHCK EBX

EBX is warm and smooth while still articulate - a really musical earbuds to listen to, especially for anything vocal related. Svara Pro is overall more balanced in tuning than the original Svara. I won't say it is necessary a jump in SQ, but it is more versatile when it comes to music matching. According to the maker (which I agree), it goes particularly well with slow music. With fast music, upper vocal can sound slightly dry. EQ it down just a bit and it will shine.


----------



## waynes world

What? No earbud posts since 05:07 this morning? Has the world stopped spinning???


----------



## romanov89

I saw earbud at aliexpress with 650ohm! Just crazy.

Look what I found on AliExpress
http://s.aliexpress.com/2uQN7ZnY

Will this able to perform with any portable amplifier like my cayin c5? 

Or this require desktop amplifier ?
If yes, i wont bother looking it up anymore


----------



## golov17

@romanov89 
TY Hi-Z HP650 650ohm HiFi Audiophile  Earbuds Professional Stereo Earbuds Earphones 
http://s.aliexpress.com/jYbqeYNn


----------



## chinmie

romanov89 said:


> I saw earbud at aliexpress with 650ohm! Just crazy.
> 
> Look what I found on AliExpress
> http://s.aliexpress.com/2uQN7ZnY
> ...



depends on it's sensitivity. I've tried a few high impedance buds (TY650, PS100-500, Yinman 500), they can be driven easily from my phone and tablets


----------



## romanov89

chinmie said:


> depends on it's sensitivity. I've tried a few high impedance buds (TY650, PS100-500, Yinman 500), they can be driven easily from my phone and tablets



Thanks for the reply.
You’re giving me hope @chinmie


----------



## nick n

here's one that may help
Online Stereo Polarity (Phase) Sound Test


----------



## euge (Nov 27, 2017)

Received my 11.11 orders, k300 pro, new graphene and Kinera earbud, using Fiio q1
The Kinera is my fav of the bunch, pretty similar to shozy bk, slightly brighter, treble extends further, soundstage is slightly better as well, bk still has better resolution and bass I think.
The k300 pro bass is a bit much for me atm only 10mins of use.
Don't own the old graphene so can't compare :/

and my masya came back


----------



## j4100

euge said:


> and my masya came back



Was it on holiday? 

I like the sound of the Kinera. Mine is still in transit with the rest of my 11.11 order. Hopefully arrive in the next day or two.


----------



## euge

j4100 said:


> Was it on holiday?
> 
> I like the sound of the Kinera. Mine is still in transit with the rest of my 11.11 order. Hopefully arrive in the next day or two.



more like went for surgery  god damn rose, now the right side is louder than the left.... sigh


----------



## j4100

euge said:


> more like went for surgery  god damn rose, now the right side is louder than the left.... sigh



Sorry to hear that. That's poor performance from Rose. You would have expected them to have actually done a quick listening test to make sure they sounded ok. Unless the tester has a hearing problem.


----------



## euge

j4100 said:


> Sorry to hear that. That's poor performance from Rose. You would have expected them to have actually done a quick listening test to make sure they sounded ok. Unless the tester has a hearing problem.



My bad, I was wondering why they sent me a new L n R when I only send over the faulty R.
The R had some rattling during bass heavy tunes.

The new pair sounds a lot thicker and fuller than my old one, sounds a lot richer, maybe both sides were faulty when I 1st receive them.

@seanc6441 you might have a faulty pair...


----------



## j4100

Ahh. So a new matched pair then


----------



## FlyingRhino

euge said:


> Received my 11.11 orders, k300 pro, new graphene and Kinera earbud, using Fiio q1
> The Kinera is my fav of the bunch, pretty similar to shozy bk, slightly brighter, treble extends further, soundstage is slightly better as well, bk still has better resolution and bass I think.
> The k300 pro bass is a bit much for me atm only 10mins of use.
> Don't own the old graphene so can't compare :/
> ...



what source are you using with your Kinera? just got mine today and I find vocals to be hollow, tinny and a bit sibilant. I'm using an LG G6 with quad dac on high impedance mode on as a source. The buds respond reasonably well to EQ (a bit of mid bass boost, with aggressive mid to treble dampening), but not sure if this is what everyone else is experiencing.


----------



## winterflood

i want to try an earbud do you guys any recomdend an analytical earbud? my budget limit is $70(perhaps more if worthy not over $100) im currently using an IEM ( ATH IM02) and i wanna try good earbud with analytical sounds..need advice thank you


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 27, 2017)

euge said:


> My bad, I was wondering why they sent me a new L n R when I only send over the faulty R.
> The R had some rattling during bass heavy tunes.
> 
> The new pair sounds a lot thicker and fuller than my old one, sounds a lot richer, maybe both sides were faulty when I 1st receive them.
> ...


I’ll have my new dac by the end of the day so I can check then

I bought from aliexpress seller YaonTiger. Not sure if I have any cover at all from Rose tech. How do I even inquire if needed? They don’t have a website...


----------



## jogawag (Nov 27, 2017)

winterflood said:


> i want to try an earbud do you guys any recomdend an analytical earbud? my budget limit is $70(perhaps more if worthy not over $100) im currently using an IEM ( ATH IM02) and i wanna try good earbud with analytical sounds..need advice thank you


I recommend "Creative Aurvana Air". Perhaps this is the most analytical earbuds. (You can remove ear hook, if you do not want it.)


----------



## c4rb0n

is the Kinera youre talking about is the H3?


----------



## xavierng1

c4rb0n said:


> is the Kinera youre talking about is the H3?



Kinera earbuds, not the IEM


----------



## Saoshyant

If someone with the Kinera earbud decides they don't like them, let me know as I'm interested in giving them a try.


----------



## noknok23

winterflood said:


> i want to try an earbud do you guys any recomdend an analytical earbud? my budget limit is $70(perhaps more if worthy not over $100) im currently using an IEM ( ATH IM02) and i wanna try good earbud with analytical sounds..need advice thank you


there is not much info on them but there is a vietnamese DIY maker making really good technical earbuds for 20-40USD and around 150 ohm -some models easier to drive than others-, you can look at earbuds anonymous on facebook for info (search "eking") otherwise i am thinking of blur  from wong kuan wae but an amp is recommended (300 ohm)


----------



## winterflood

jogawag said:


> I recommend "Creative Aurvana Air". Perhaps this is the most analytical earbuds. (You can remove ear hook, if you do not want it.)


noted. thank you



noknok23 said:


> there is not much info on them but there is a vietnamese DIY maker making really good technical earbuds for 20-40USD and around 150 ohm -some models easier to drive than others-, you can look at earbuds anonymous on facebook for info (search "eking") otherwise i am thinking of blur  from wong kuan wae but an amp is recommended (300 ohm)


im looking for easy drive earbud (im not amping just direct head to shanling m1) , but thank you for your recommended


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 27, 2017)

winterflood said:


> noted. thank you
> 
> 
> im looking for easy drive earbud (im not amping just direct head to shanling m1) , but thank you for your recommended


Rose Masya? If you can take a chance on the QC. I think it’s better than before but evidently some people still have issues. Great earbud though for the price if you get a good unit. Possibly the best under $100.

Slightly analytical but not a ‘dry’ sound, more musical with a slightly emphasised vocals which are pushed forward for clarity but not in your face thanks to the big soundstage. I’ll let you know if my new dac handles it well later as your shanling m1 should do so better than my current source, Iphone 6s.

On sale for 2 more days at $98 from Penon Audio.


----------



## winterflood

seanc6441 said:


> Rose Masya? If you can take a chance on the QC. I think it’s better than before but evidently some people still have issues. Great earbud though for the price if you get a good unit. Possibly the best under $100.
> 
> Slightly analytical but not a ‘dry’ sound, more musical with a slightly emphasised vocals which are pushed forward for clarity but not in your face thanks to the big soundstage. I’ll let you know if my new dac handles it well later as your shanling m1 should do so better than my current source, Iphone 6s.
> 
> On sale for 2 more days at $98 from Penon Audio.


thank you , which masya it is? i see in aliexpress its above 100$ (145.33$)


----------



## jogawag

seanc6441 said:


> Rose Masya? If you can take a chance on the QC. I think it’s better than before but evidently some people still have issues. Great earbud though for the price if you get a good unit. Possibly the best under $100.
> 
> Slightly analytical but not a ‘dry’ sound, more musical with a slightly emphasised vocals which are pushed forward for clarity but not in your face thanks to the big soundstage. I’ll let you know if my new dac handles it well later as your shanling m1 should do so better than my current source, Iphone 6s.
> 
> On sale for 2 more days at $98 from Penon Audio.



Do you recommend Masya than Aurvana Air to whom want analytic sound?
Do you have listened to Aurvana Air?
I have both, and I strongly recommend Aurvana Air.


----------



## seanc6441

jogawag said:


> Do you recommend Masya than Aurvana Air to whom want analytic sound?
> Do you have listened to Aurvana Air?
> I have both, and I strongly recommend Aurvana Air.


I don’t have both. Is Aurvana the same level of sound quality? If so then you’re opinion is of course more valid as you have both.

I just suggest the masya because it is somewhat analytical and regarded as the best or one of the best below $100.

@winterflood I’d suggest buying from penonaudio.com as it’s on sale there.

It’s the Rose Masya (black version).


----------



## winterflood

seanc6441 said:


> I don’t have both. Is Aurvana the same level of sound quality? If so then you’re opinion is of course more valid as you have both.
> 
> I just suggest the masya because it is somewhat analytical and regarded as the best or one of the best below $100.
> 
> ...


 aw it has limited time and will end in 2 days, im planning to buy 3 days later from today ( waiting for my salary)


----------



## seanc6441

winterflood said:


> aw it has limited time and will end in 2 days, im planning to buy 3 days later from today ( waiting for my salary)



Oh that’s unlucky. If it was on aliexpress the seller can offer a discount in a few days but they only have it on sale on thier own website. Probably to avoid extra fee’s.


----------



## winterflood

seanc6441 said:


> Oh that’s unlucky. If it was on aliexpress the seller can offer a discount in a few days but they only have it on sale on thier own website. Probably to avoid extra fee’s.


how about moondrop vx pro i found it at aliexpress its about 69$ its suited for my budget..how it sound and QC? or maybe yuin PK2 it also suited for my budget


----------



## jogawag (Nov 27, 2017)

winterflood said:


> how about moondrop vx pro i found it at aliexpress its about 69$ its suited for my budget..how it sound and QC? or maybe yuin PK2 it also suited for my budget


Yuin's QC is the lowest. Moreover, because evaluation of PK 2 is bad, I prefer stopping.
And I have Moondrop VX Pro too, but with analytical sound quality and sound stage extensive, Aurvana Air is winning.
Aurvana Air's initial price was $ 200 but it gradually became cheaper and the performance is still very good.
Please look at the popularity ranking below as a reference.
https://goo.gl/gt1THD


----------



## winterflood

jogawag said:


> Yuin's QC is the lowest. Moreover, because evaluation of PK 2 is bad, I prefer stopping.
> And I have Moondrop VX Pro too, but with analytical sound quality and sound stage extensive, Aurvana Air is winning.
> Aurvana Air's initial price was $ 200 but it gradually became cheaper and the performance is still very good.
> Please look at the popularity ranking below as a reference.
> https://goo.gl/gt1THD


wow thanks for your sharing , yeah my primary choice is aurvana air right now (but it seems to bit out of my range budget , i saw it at aliexpress it cost about 130$) then if i cant afford aurvana perhaps i will going to moondrop vx pro


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 27, 2017)

winterflood said:


> wow thanks for your sharing , yeah my primary choice is aurvana air right now (but it seems to bit out of my range budget , i saw it at aliexpress it cost about 130$) then if i cant afford aurvana perhaps i will going to moondrop vx pro


I’m seeing one (aurvana air) on ebay from Japan for €67 free shipping and it’s new. Looks like a good deal.

Others from UK but around the same price and one is Used like new. Japan shipping wouldbe considerably faster to you.

Here’s the link https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.ie/ulk/itm/253280304693


----------



## winterflood

seanc6441 said:


> I’m seeing one (aurvana air) on ebay from Japan for €67 free shipping and it’s new. Looks like a good deal.
> 
> Others from UK but around the same price and one is Used like new. Japan shipping wouldbe considerably faster to you.
> 
> Here’s the link https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.ie/ulk/itm/253280304693


wow thanks a lot i will get it asap before its gone


----------



## seanc6441

jogawag said:


> Yuin's QC is the lowest. Moreover, because evaluation of PK 2 is bad, I prefer stopping.
> And I have Moondrop VX Pro too, but with analytical sound quality and sound stage extensive, Aurvana Air is winning.
> Aurvana Air's initial price was $ 200 but it gradually became cheaper and the performance is still very good.
> Please look at the popularity ranking below as a reference.
> https://goo.gl/gt1THD


How’s the aurvana at that price I showed? Worth it and how does it compare to the Masya in your opinion overall.


----------



## seanc6441

winterflood said:


> wow thanks a lot i will get it asap before its gone


np it looks really well built. Should last a long time with that metal construction. Hope it sounds as good as it looks


----------



## jogawag (Nov 27, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> How’s the aurvana at that price I showed? Worth it and how does it compare to the Masya in your opinion overall.


I think that you can buy Aurvana Air with more cheap price at link below.... can not?
https://asia.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/aurvana-air


----------



## seanc6441

T


jogawag said:


> I think that you can buy Aurvana Air with more cheap price at link blow.... can not?
> https://asia.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/aurvana-air



What price are you seeing? I don’t see a price shown on that webpage


----------



## winterflood

jogawag said:


> I think that you can buy Aurvana Air with more cheap price at link below.... can not?
> https://asia.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/aurvana-air


how to buy it?


----------



## jogawag

seanc6441 said:


> T
> 
> 
> What price are you seeing? I don’t see a price shown on that webpage


I think this site is for asia, so perhaps on an access from asia this page shows price...
*@winterflood*, please test to open the page.


----------



## gravicap

jogawag said:


> Yuin's QC is the lowest. Moreover, because evaluation of PK 2 is bad, I prefer stopping.
> And I have Moondrop VX Pro too, but with analytical sound quality and sound stage extensive, Aurvana Air is winning.
> Aurvana Air's initial price was $ 200 but it gradually became cheaper and the performance is still very good.
> Please look at the popularity ranking below as a reference.
> https://goo.gl/gt1THD


I've noticed that all VE eaebuds tend to have lower ratings. Is it beacuse their signature (warm mid-centric I suppose) is rather unpopular, or VE has lower SQ? 
I am choosing between Shozy BK and Zen 2 (for now I like Zen for 3,5 trrs option), so I'd be grateful for any opinion. I also noticed that Zen 1 has much higher ratings than Zen 2. Why so?
All replies welcome.


----------



## jogawag (Nov 27, 2017)

winterflood said:


> how to buy it?


I am sorry.  It seems that you can not buy from this page.
In Japan"online store" button from similar page below I could buy it.
http://jp.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/aurvana-air


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 27, 2017)

jogawag said:


> I am sorry.  It seems that you can not buy from this page.
> In Japan"online store" button from similar page below I could buy it.
> http://jp.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/aurvana-air


is that 5,500 japanese yen? If so that’s €41 which is really cheap wow

Hope @winterflood did not use my link :s


----------



## winterflood

jogawag said:


> I think this site is for asia, so perhaps on an access from asia this page shows price...
> *@winterflood*, please test to open the page.


i opened the page but didnt found any clue about how to buy it , it show how to contact them , but i would try with japanese site


----------



## seanc6441

winterflood said:


> i opened the page but didnt found any clue about how to buy it , it show how to contact them , but i would try with japanese site


I translated to english and on the second site linked it had an ‘online store’ button for a price of 5,500 japanese yen? €41 to me. Go with his option if you can!


----------



## winterflood

seanc6441 said:


> I translated to english and on the second site linked it had an ‘online store’ button for a price of 5,500 japanese yen? €41 to me. Go with his option if you can!


yeah finally i found the store haha , thank you


----------



## jogawag

gravicap said:


> I've noticed that all VE eaebuds tend to have lower ratings. Is it beacuse their signature (warm mid-centric I suppose) is rather unpopular, or VE has lower SQ?
> I am choosing between Shozy BK and Zen 2 (for now I like Zen for 3,5 trrs option), so I'd be grateful for any opinion. I also noticed that Zen 1 has much higher ratings than Zen 2. Why so?
> All replies welcome.


I feel Shozy BK is the best earbuds in which have normal impedance and normal figure.
I do not like high impedance earbuds, so I do not have them.


----------



## seanc6441

jogawag said:


> I feel Shozy BK is the best earbuds in which have normal impedance and normal figure.
> I do not like high impedance earbuds, so I do not have them.


But much more costly than this aurvana air. Shozy bk is worth the price if it’s exactly what you’re looking for but it’s definitely not ‘value for money’.


----------



## jogawag

winterflood said:


> yeah finally i found the store haha , thank you


How much is that?


----------



## jogawag (Nov 27, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> But much more costly than this aurvana air. Shozy bk is worth the price if it’s exactly what you’re looking for but it’s definitely not ‘value for money’.


That reply is for *@gravicap*, not for *@winterflood...*


----------



## seanc6441

@jogawag hows the sq compared to the Masya, like is it worth considering as an alternative or is it slightly below?


----------



## winterflood

jogawag said:


> How much is that?


  to my currency it cost about 50$ without shipping


----------



## seanc6441

jogawag said:


> That reply is for *@gravicap*, not for *@winterflood...*


oops!

Yes the BK is all kinds of awesome if the source opens up the stage slightly because they need a little help in that regard, but the SQ is excellent.


----------



## jogawag (Nov 27, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> @jogawag hows the sq compared to the Masya, like is it worth considering as an alternative or is it slightly below?


What is "the sq"?
if it means "the sound quality of aurvana air", I think that it worth considering as an alternative(perfect sound separation, wider sound stage...).

If you use it, I recommend you to remove the ear hook, and to use Macgizmo earpad.


----------



## chellity

FlyingRhino said:


> what source are you using with your Kinera? just got mine today and I find vocals to be hollow, tinny and a bit sibilant. I'm using an LG G6 with quad dac on high impedance mode on as a source. The buds respond reasonably well to EQ (a bit of mid bass boost, with aggressive mid to treble dampening), but not sure if this is what everyone else is experiencing.



These buds are only 12 ohm, so they should't be driven in high impedance mode.  Im pretty sure any output impedance for that matter, will change a 12 ohms buds sound for the worst.  

Most of the other reviews havent mentioned the sound characteristics youre describing, so try changing your source.  I wouldn't even drive these out of a shanling m2.


----------



## seanc6441

jogawag said:


> What is "the sq"?
> if it means "the sound quality of aurvana air", I think that it worth considering as an alternative(perfect sound separation, wider sound stage...).
> 
> If you use it, I recommend you to remove the ear hook, and to use Macgizmo earpad.


sorry yes I meant sound quality. If the Masy doesn’t work out for me I may try this earbud.


----------



## jogawag (Nov 27, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> sorry yes I meant sound quality. If the Masy doesn’t work out for me I may try this earbud.


You already have Masya, and Masya works well for you doesn't it?
Hmmm, is aurvana air for a change of pace?


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 27, 2017)

jogawag said:


> You already have Masya, and Masya works well for you doesn't it?
> Hmmm, is aurvana air for a change of pace?


More because the the synergy between iphone 6s and Masya isn't great. Maybe the new dac will help but if it doesn't I may be looking for another earbud with open and airy soundstage to complete my collection as the BK's don't offer the qualities of a very open or large soundstage.

The Masya is everything I wanted it to be except for the vocals on my source. Infact I wouldn't even call the Masya very airy but it has enough air and a big soundstage to get the job done on albums that require it and retains that forward sound signature that I like. For instance I find it challanging to listen to Radohead's 'A Moon shaped Pool' on my Shozy BK because the soundstage isn't large enough to really create that atmospheric effect the album needs. Masya sounds better on it but the vocals are just not good on my iphone and ruin the experience.


----------



## jogawag

seanc6441 said:


> More because the the synergy between iphone 6s and Masya isn't great. Maybe the new dac will help but if it doesn't I may be looking for another earbud with open and airy soundstage to complete my collection as the BK's don't offer the qualities of a very open or large soundstage.
> 
> The Masya is everything I wanted it to be except for the vocals on my source. Infact I wouldn't even call the Masya very airy but it has enough air and a big soundstage to get the job done on albums that require it and retains that forward sound signature that I like. For instance I find it challanging to listen to Radohead's 'A Moon shaped Pool' on my Shozy BK because the soundstage isn't large enough to really create that atmospheric effect the album needs. Masya sounds better on it but the vocals are just not good on my iphone and ruin the experience.



I listened to Radiohead's 'A Moon shaped Pool' on amazon.
Aurvana Air work well for wider sound stage and sound seperation. However, I do not know the correct answer for the sound of this special vocal...


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 27, 2017)

jogawag said:


> I listened to Radiohead's 'A Moon shaped Pool' on amazon.
> Aurvana Air work well for wider sound stage and sound seperation. However, I do not know the correct answer for the sound of this special vocal...



Yes Thom Yorkes voice is definitely 'special vocals' lol.

The track 'daydreaming' is probably one of my favourite of all time, but it only sounds magical on the right earbud. Very layered music with lots of detail in the background.

This album in particular requires much air and separation or it will sound mushy. Masya can handle it well on my laptop it sounds good but I'm looking for this vocal tone with higher detail and more crisp sound from a better DAC.


----------



## euge

FlyingRhino said:


> what source are you using with your Kinera? just got mine today and I find vocals to be hollow, tinny and a bit sibilant. I'm using an LG G6 with quad dac on high impedance mode on as a source. The buds respond reasonably well to EQ (a bit of mid bass boost, with aggressive mid to treble dampening), but not sure if this is what everyone else is experiencing.



Just a fiio q1 off pc, also used it through my crappy P9 phone too, didn't notice much difference, they're definitely not as thick and full as the BK, I'm guessing that contributes to the slightly better soundstage too. I personally prefer that little bit of sparkle, didn't find it too harsh.

It was the most neutral out of the 3 I received and had a quick listen on the day.
It also probably helped that I had lowered expectations after the 1 average review that was posted few days ago.




seanc6441 said:


> I’ll have my new dac by the end of the day so I can check then
> 
> I bought from aliexpress seller YaonTiger. Not sure if I have any cover at all from Rose tech. How do I even inquire if needed? They don’t have a website...




I heard it was hard to deal with Rose, that was why I opt for penon, probably still have a shot but they'll make it difficult for you...


----------



## seanc6441

@euge The hard part is actually contacting them in the fist place... No website, no email as far as I can see, nothing.

I don't think my Masya is faulty just yet though, still convinced/hoping it is just my source.

My new hifime dac was delivered earlier but I was out so they will deliver it again tomorrow or I will pick it up at a local depot.


----------



## j4100

euge said:


> Just a fiio q1 off pc, also used it through my crappy P9 phone too, didn't notice much difference, they're definitely not as thick and full as the BK, I'm guessing that contributes to the slightly better soundstage too. I personally prefer that little bit of sparkle, didn't find it too harsh.
> 
> It was the most neutral out of the 3 I received and had a quick listen on the day.
> It also probably helped that I had lowered expectations after the 1 average review that was posted few days ago.



Dunno if it really makes any difference, but someone (Steve?) said that we should burn them in for at least 30 hours and not use them out of a phone. You have already noted that there wasn't much difference between the Q1 and the phone. I'll get mine eventually


----------



## bonson

Fengru HYCK100 from cklewis looks gorgeous. May be i am wrong but didn't find any.reference about it. Hope they sound good ...

https://fr.aliexpress.com/store/pro...43.html?spm=a2g0w.12010615.0.0.77de0c52bLFplf


----------



## euge

@seanc6441 yeah hopefully that'll help, ppl on the rose tech thread could probably help you get in contact if needed

@j4100 I read that too, sounded really defensive lol I didn't notice much diff but I'm pretty casual, sounds great to me.

Maybe it'll sound smoother later on, do hope you enjoy yours and not be disappointed like the other guy!


----------



## vladstef (Nov 27, 2017)

bonson said:


> Fengru HYCK100 from cklewis looks gorgeous. May be i am wrong but didn't find any.reference about it. Hope they sound good ...
> 
> https://fr.aliexpress.com/store/pro...43.html?spm=a2g0w.12010615.0.0.77de0c52bLFplf



That looks soooo nice. Now that I think about it, it is confusing why people are not talking more about Fengru products, there are quite a few on Aliexpress yet I only saw a few mentioned here.

The way male MMCX connector is in phase with the body of the earbud is the best part, more earbuds/iems should have a coherent design which includes this kind of integration. Sometimes it hurts so much seeing an expensive beautiful earphone with plastic and out of place cable connector.


----------



## Saoshyant

@euge We literally tell the person to get a hold of where the Rose Tech earphone was bought in order to get a hold of the crafters.  It's part of the reason many of us strongly suggest buying through Penon Audio as they don't mind acting as a middleman to get repairs.


----------



## seanc6441

bonson said:


> Fengru HYCK100 from cklewis looks gorgeous. May be i am wrong but didn't find any.reference about it. Hope they sound good ...
> 
> https://fr.aliexpress.com/store/pro...43.html?spm=a2g0w.12010615.0.0.77de0c52bLFplf


Wow that's something alright. Never saw a front grille like that before either.

Someone needs to buy it and tell us how it sounds


----------



## SweetEars

anyone got hold of the new graphene versions can review them??


----------



## chaiyuta

Kinera Buds Mini-Review (Bare shells)

Disclaimer : Please take it with a grain of salt. 

Over 30 hours burn-in passed. 
Source : DX200 + AMP1, High Gain, Fast Roll-off, Volume 77/150
Tonality: neutral tend to a tad bright
Vocal : Medium-sized imaging neither big nor lean, somewhat sexy-liked female vocal but it's not reach dry sound for my ears. the position is a bit forward 
Treble : Decent detail resolving though it is still far from TOTL detail monster e.g. Rose Mojito. No harsh treble detect. 
Bass : It's lack of bass texture. sub-bass exists but doesn't dive deep. Anyhow I heard bass go down a bit deeper than very first hours of burn-in.

Conclusion : I prefer this Kinera buds over Shozy BK. While vocal tone of Shozy BK tend to warmer side, I find myself prefer vocal tone from Kinera Buds. Since Kinera Buds is limited quantity. Sadly I couldn't get more. Hope all other owners are unsatisfied with it so that I might possibly to get another one in 2nd hand market.

Cheers,
Chaiyut A.


----------



## euge

SweetEars said:


> anyone got hold of the new graphene versions can review them??



They're pretty good, a bit bass heavy and thick, slight v-shape? Have not spend too much time with it yet, might have to try different foams


----------



## SweetEars

euge said:


> They're pretty good, a bit bass heavy and thick, slight v-shape? Have not spend too much time with it yet, might have to try different foams


thank u ... try to review them...is there sparkle and sub bass?


----------



## euge (Nov 28, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> thank u ... try to review them...is there sparkle and sub bass?



yea the sub bass is great, but i think the mid bass bleeds into the mids a little, i've only had 5mins with it and still trying out foams

these Kineras though, liking them more and more...


----------



## waynes world

golov17 said:


> Official KINERA Earbuds Pre order
> http://s.aliexpress.com/yqIBFzI3



Yeah, but do I want them? 



euge said:


> these Kineras though, liking them more and more...



II love my Graphenes, but I ain't no treble-head. Do I want these Kinera's???



chaiyuta said:


> Conclusion : I prefer this Kinera buds over Shozy BK. While vocal tone of Shozy BK tend to warmer side, I find myself prefer vocal tone from Kinera Buds. Since Kinera Buds is limited quantity. Sadly I couldn't get more. Hope all other owners are unsatisfied with it so that I might possibly to get another one in 2nd hand market.
> Cheers,
> Chaiyut A.



Whaaaaa? But really, do I really want them?????


----------



## chaiyuta

@waynes world : No, You will never want it. Hope negative reviews release more and more from other owners. lol


----------



## bonson

seanc6441 said:


> Wow that's something alright. Never saw a front grille like that before either.
> 
> Someone needs to buy it and tell us how it sounds


Just bought a Dunu 2000j. Empty wallet


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Yeah, but do I want them?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



no, you don't want them.. but your soul NEEDS them 

seriously, i also share them same problem, wanting something i might not need. that's why I'm trying to set a quota of not more than 10 earbuds (which i currently have broken). i really need to put away some buds before purchasing new ones


----------



## kurtextrem (Nov 28, 2017)

Rose Masya 2: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=129474907766492&id=117167512330565 

Edit: lol, see below. Still the same Rose Masya


----------



## euge

kurtextrem said:


> Rose Masya 2: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=129474907766492&id=117167512330565



hmm maybe they sent me the new version 2 as a replacement?
it looks the same and is priced the same too, but yeah I'm staying away from rose for now...


----------



## chaiyuta

No.. it is about 'space' how you read. It is Masya (2 dynamic drivers).


----------



## euge

chaiyuta said:


> No.. it is about 'space' how you read. It is Masya (2 dynamic drivers).



hahahhaha good spot


----------



## kurtextrem

Hahaha, sorry guys. Was easy to believe they came up with a new Masya to create a new TOTL!


----------



## SweetEars

euge said:


> yea the sub bass is great, but i think the mid bass bleeds into the mids a little, i've only had 5mins with it and still trying out foams
> 
> these Kineras though, liking them more and more...


treble mids? soundstage??


----------



## wskl

seanc6441 said:


> Oh boy... I’m having doubts about how I connected the 2 pin cables to my masya on day one... does it matter which way the LR signs are facing?? naturally i faced them in the same direction as the LR markings on the earbud itself... what if it was supposed to be the other side out? my god, is this my problem all along??
> 
> I could test it but im paranoid the jacks may not even be matched and ill have one good one bad. I’m hoping it’s irrelevant which side faces out but i read on an iem thread it matters? is this the case for dynamic drivers??





HungryPanda said:


> On the Rose Masyas I have my cables with the letters on the cable in line with the ones on the buds and these earbuds sound great to me. I am plugging them in to a Fostex HPA4BL desktop amp though.




I think both of you have the correct pin orientation, I received my Masya today and it came with the card shown below.


----------



## euge (Nov 28, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> treble mids? soundstage??



The soundstage is above average, more width than depth, mids and treble are pretty evenly matched, mid isn't as clean or clear as the Kinera, its the bass that's boosted I feel.

It has a fun warmish sound, with the thick bass and soundstage going.

Oh yea the cable has a nice matte finish to it, but its a little stiff


----------



## SweetEars

euge said:


> The soundstage is above average, more width than depth, mids and treble are pretty evenly matched, mid isn't as clean or clear as the Kinera, its the bass that's boosted I feel.
> 
> It has a fun warmish sound, with the thick bass and soundstage going.
> 
> Oh yea the cable has a nice matte finish to it, but its a little stiff


how will u compare it  to other earbuds such as the original graphene , emx 500 ?


----------



## SweetEars

euge said:


> The soundstage is above average, more width than depth, mids and treble are pretty evenly matched, mid isn't as clean or clear as the Kinera, its the bass that's boosted I feel.
> 
> It has a fun warmish sound, with the thick bass and soundstage going.
> 
> Oh yea the cable has a nice matte finish to it, but its a little stiff


let me know hows yr foam experimentation going.


----------



## vladstef

Fengru HYCK100 is actually really interesting, beautiful design aside, it has unique front cover as well as driver, 13.5mm double dynamic. If it's proportionately good compared to Fengru EMX500... oh well, we can dream.
Meanwhile, eye candy:


----------



## seanc6441

bonson said:


> Just bought a Dunu 2000j. Empty wallet


Makes two of us 

Shozy BK + Hifime Sabre DAC 9018



wskl said:


> I think both of you have the correct pin orientation, I received my Masya today and it came with the card shown below.



If they included that in yours but not ours they must have received a few complaints about the poor labeling on the earbud itself.

They should have two dots to line up depending on side/polarity... couldn’t be so difficult


----------



## seanc6441

chaiyuta said:


> Kinera Buds Mini-Review (Bare shells)
> 
> Disclaimer : Please take it with a grain of salt.
> 
> ...



If you prefer it over the shozy bk due to tonality I’d like to ask which foams you are using on your bk? I find the thick donuts make itvery warm bassy and too much in your face, it lacks any airy sound.


----------



## chaiyuta

@seanc6441 : It comes with stock full foams. By the way, I tried Shozy BK at an audio store. It's not mine.


----------



## seanc6441

chaiyuta said:


> @seanc6441 : It comes with stock full foams. By the way, I tried Shozy BK at an audio store. It's not mine.


ah ok. Yeah I didn’t like it with full or heigi donuts so much.


----------



## KookaBurrra

chaiyuta said:


> @seanc6441 : It comes with stock full foams. By the way, I tried Shozy BK at an audio store. It's not mine.


It could be cool if you can have it more time - than a simple try in a store (noisy place ?) - to compare, perhaps you could change your mind... Not really good condition to have a full judgment. ^-^


----------



## Danneq

winterflood said:


> i want to try an earbud do you guys any recomdend an analytical earbud? my budget limit is $70(perhaps more if worthy not over $100) im currently using an IEM ( ATH IM02) and i wanna try good earbud with analytical sounds..need advice thank you



Late reply and perhaps you already bought one of the recommended earbuds, but for a clean neutral sound that leans towards analytical I would recommend Yincrow RW-777. You can find them for around $45-50 on Aliexpress. I haven't heard Creative Aurvana air but used to own Audio Technica CM7 & CM700TI and Yincrow RW-777 is a bit similar in sound signature with a deep and spacious soundstage, good instrument separation and layering and not too bass heavy (even for earbuds). Still bass is okay. There is also no trace of sibilance or harshness in the treble in RW-777.


----------



## chaiyuta

@seanc6441 @KookaBurrra : Thanks for your inputs. If I have a chance, I will go to try Shozy BK again in form of bare shells. During this time, earbuds market looks a silent air. Somehow I think at the end of this year until the first quarter of next year. We might see a big lot of earbuds tsunami.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 28, 2017)

chaiyuta said:


> @seanc6441 @KookaBurrra : Thanks for your inputs. If I have a chance, I will go to try Shozy BK again in form of bare shells. During this time, earbuds market looks a silent air. Somehow I think at the end of this year until the first quarter of next year. We might see a big lot of earbuds tsunami.


I just know from my experience with the BK is that the foams massively change the tonality and balance.

I didn’t like it with thick foams (too warm and dark) and with no foams it’s abit harsh and treble heavy.

I’m using 1 monk thin and 1 layer of monk thin inside to thicken up the front for seal and to smooth the treble. Both are cut into donut one slightly smaller than the other .

So the centre vents are completely open leaving the bass clean and tight. The mid vents are covered by 1 monk and the outer by 2, leave the mids smooth and detailed enough, the highs get tamed nicely. No longer does it sound harsh and the tonality is the most natural of any earbud I have used. Everything sounds true to tone.

The reason I didn’t just apply 1 thin foam over another is because I find the shell gets abit thick and doesn’t fit the ear as well then.


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> that's why I'm trying to set a quota of not more than 10 earbuds *PER MONTH *(which i currently have broken). i really need to put away some buds before purchasing new ones



There, fixed that for you, and presto - problem solved!


----------



## HungryPanda

I will not buy any more earbuds, I will not try to buy any more earbuds, oh dang those earbuds look cool........


----------



## euge

SweetEars said:


> how will u compare it  to other earbuds such as the original graphene , emx 500 ?



Sorry own neither of em, maybe you can do the comparison when you get them.

I am curious if they sound the same as the older graphene


----------



## seanc6441

euge said:


> Sorry own neither of em, maybe you can do the comparison when you get them.
> 
> I am curious if they sound the same as the older graphene


if the vocals are better than the older graphene id buy it. Definitely the weak point of the graphene and why I don’t use it


----------



## waynes world (Nov 28, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> if the vocals are better than the older graphene id buy it. Definitely the weak point of the graphene and why I don’t use it



I think the vocals out of the graphenes are rather brilliant - fairly forward and quite engaging (listening to Daydreaming as I type). Interesting!

Edit: Wow, "Decks Dark" is sounding very haunting out of them as well. Btw, watch the first episode of Ozark and you'll get a treat at the end . Hint...


----------



## gazzington

If I was to get either:
Stardust bk 
Rose masayla
Ty 400 or 650
For someone who would like good bass and sparkly trebles with being fatiging. A wide soundstage would be nice too!
Used with fiio x5iii or colorfly c3
What you folks recommend?


----------



## HungryPanda

+1 for the Rose Maysa


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 28, 2017)

waynes world said:


> I think the vocals out of the graphenes are rather brilliant - fairly forward and quite engaging (listening to Daydreaming as I type). Interesting!
> 
> Edit: Wow, "Decks Dark" is sounding very haunting out of them as well. Btw, watch the first episode of Ozark and you'll get a treat at the end . Hint...




I just finished watching that episode a couple of hours ago.

Yes...WOW.  Sounded amazing on my home theater system .  Now I need the album...and of course I will need to watch the whole series. I had not heard the song before. For some reason I have never paid any attention to Radiohead.

I had to use Soundhound...lol

My graphenes have not yet arrived but I have other excellent choices.


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> I just finished watching that episode a couple of hours ago.
> 
> Yes...WOW.  Sounded amazing on my home theater system .  Now I need the album...and of course I will need to watch the whole series. I had not heard the song before. For some reason I have never paid any attention to Radiohead.
> 
> ...



Got you hooked on Radiohead and Ozark - my job is done here lol!

Another great Radiohead song from another great album (In Rainbows):


----------



## gazzington

In rainbows is my favourite radiohead album. Beautiful record


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 28, 2017)

gazzington said:


> If I was to get either:
> Stardust bk
> Rose masayla
> Ty 400 or 650
> ...


Masya +1. I can now give it two thumbs up out of my hifime sabre dac running from my laptop. The vocals have gone from thin and 'watered down' to clear and with respectable fullness/body. Masya is what your looking for if you enjoy full bass and detail in the highs but without sacrificing the mids (which are brilliant), now the vocals have 'fixed' on mine. I'm very happy with this earbud.

@waynes world Just like how my Masya's have improved in vocals, I can now say the graphene's sound 10 times better too. Everything has tightened up and doesn't sound as mushy, vocals has excellent body/texture and are decently forward.

It's so weird how much a source can affect this. I'm honestly quiet surprised. The DAC itself is smaller than I thought but the extra wires it'll take to use it with my phone isn't ideal so I think I'll keep it for my laptop audio only which needed te extra volume boost anyway.

The amp section is very decent. I'm powering both my eaebuds at 20% power albeiet low impendance buds, this dac will power most earbuds under 150 ohm or possibly higher I feel although I cannot confirm that.

The sound is full, slightly warm but doesn't sacrifice details. It's about on par detail wise with my iphone but has more punch and more body and a bigger soundstage slighty.

As a laptop dac that's no bigger than a matchbox and weighs next to nothing and costs around €70. I recommend it. The price to performance is excellent. Although it's built from plastic and isn't much of a looker. It gets the job done.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 28, 2017)

mbwilson111 said:


> I just finished watching that episode a couple of hours ago.
> 
> Yes...WOW.  Sounded amazing on my home theater system .  Now I need the album...and of course I will need to watch the whole series. I had not heard the song before. For some reason I have never paid any attention to Radiohead.
> 
> ...



Radiohead are my favourite band of all time besides Pink Floyd. So I may be biased here. But if you enjoy what you hear then you get 'hooked' and there's no escaping the dark depths their music sends you to... but it's too beautiful not to endure it 

Also every album could be considered a different genre or atleast a different stylistic approach. I think A moon shaped pool combined all the best int one, it's IMO their best album. But classics like OK Computer and Kid A are a close second.

Listen to Pyramid Song if you get a chance. That's what I mean by 'dark depths' because it's amazing and haunting at the same time.

Also check out this video for some excellent mellow guitar in the alterntive version of 'Present Tense'


----------



## Saoshyant

Creep, Black Star, Exit Music For A Film, Paranoid Android, No Surprises, Packt Like Sardines In A Crushd Tin Box & Nude are just some suggestions for Radiohead.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Masya +1. I can now give it two thumbs up out of my hifime sabre dac running from my laptop. The vocals have gone from thin and 'watered down' to clear and with respectable fullness/body. Masya is what your looking for if you enjoy full bass and detail in the highs but without sacrificing the mids (which are brilliant), now the vocals have 'fixed' on mine. I'm very happy with this earbud.
> 
> @waynes world Just like how my Masya's have improved in vocals, I can now say the graphene's sound 10 times better too. Everything has tightened up and doesn't sound as mushy, vocals has excellent body/texture and are decently forward.
> 
> ...



Awesome! I suppose the graphenes and iphone6 don't have the best synergy, as I really enjoy the graphenes off of all of my sources (although they sound best off of my laptop-zuperdac-fiio e12 amp).

Regardless, I'm glad the hifimediy is making a positive difference! I have the hifimediy u2 dac, which is a lower end model and has a ess9023 dac in it. It's actually very good, but the Zuperdac is a nice upgrade (but maybe not quite as good as your hifimediy).

Even though the Zuperdac (and Hifimediy U2) can power most of my stuff when hooked up to my laptop very nicely, I still enjoy using an amp in the mix to give things that extra push (which I hallucinate improves things on some gear, but definitely does improve things with other gear such as the Seahf 150's or Zens). I also like having a volume knob available. Right now I have the Cayin C5, Fiio E12 and a C&C BH portable amps all being swapped around at my desktop (they were initially intended for portable use, but it turns out I don't like carrying bricks around). One of these days I'm going to get a nice desktop dac and amp (or combined dac/amp), but I'm in no rush.



seanc6441 said:


> Radiohead are my favourite band of all time besides Pink Floyd. So I may be biased here. But if you enjoy what you hear then you get 'hooked' and there's no escaping the dark depths their music sends you to... but it's too beautiful not to endure it
> 
> Also every album could be considered a different genre or atleast a different stylistic approach. I think A moon shaped pool combined all the best int one, it's IMO their best album. But classics like OK Computer and Kid A are a close second.
> 
> ...




Great video! My favorite Radiohead albums are OK Computer, Kid A, In Rainbows and A Moon Shaped Pool. Next in line are The Bends, Amnesiac, Hail to the Thief and King of Limbs.

Btw, ever listened to Beck? Sea Change and Morning Phase albums are brilliant. A tune..


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 28, 2017)

Saoshyant said:


> Creep, Black Star, Exit Music For A Film, Paranoid Android, No Surprises, Packt Like Sardines In A Crushd Tin Box & Nude are just some suggestions for Radiohead.



Ask any fan that and you will get 5 different answers lol

+1 for Nude and paranoid android though. oh and exit music... oh and no surprises LAMO

@waynes world TKOL doesn't get enough love but one of my favourite tracks of any radiohead album is separator. Definately not for everyone though, bit of an odd album. Lotus flower is great though.

Speaking of quality television... with Radiohead (and other) excellent soundtrack music.

You all need to watch Westworld. Sir Anthony Hopkins at his finest... Incredible actor.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Radiohead are my favourite band of all time besides Pink Floyd. So I may be biased here. But if you enjoy what you hear then you get 'hooked' and there's no escaping the dark depths their music sends you to... but it's too beautiful not to endure it
> 
> Also every album could be considered a different genre or atleast a different stylistic approach. I think A moon shaped pool combined all the best int one, it's IMO their best album. But classics like OK Computer and Kid A are a close second.
> 
> ...




Damn.. Radiohead and Pink Floyd is also my most favorite band of all time.. my pedalboard effects are heavily inspired by Gilmour and O'brien's way of playing. my best pick is the  Wish You Were Here album, and Kid A/Amnesiac are the best Radiohead album to me. I also prefer the "leaked version" mix of the Hail to The Thief than the final public mix


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Great video! My favorite Radiohead albums are OK Computer, Kid A, In Rainbows and A Moon Shaped Pool. Next in line are The Bends, Amnesiac, Hail to the Thief and King of Limbs.
> 
> Btw, ever listened to Beck? Sea Change and Morning Phase albums are brilliant. A tune..




I like Beck from the very first album Mellow Gold, but i also agree with you, the Sea Change and Morning Phase are my favorite of his works


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 28, 2017)

chinmie said:


> Damn.. Radiohead and Pink Floyd is also my most favorite band of all time.. my pedalboard effects are heavily inspired by Gilmour and O'brien's way of playing. my best pick is the  Wish You Were Here album, and Kid A/Amnesiac are the best Radiohead album to me. I also prefer the "leaked version" mix of the Hail to The Thief than the final public mix





chinmie said:


> Damn.. Radiohead and Pink Floyd is also my most favorite band of all time.. my pedalboard effects are heavily inspired by Gilmour and O'brien's way of playing. my best pick is the  Wish You Were Here album, and Kid A/Amnesiac are the best Radiohead album to me. I also prefer the "leaked version" mix of the Hail to The Thief than the final public mix


Wish you were here is just a masterpiece I agree. I enjoy equally DSOTM and The Wall too though.

I think the duo of 'time' and 'the great gig in the sky' is mind blowing though. As is the full 26 minutes of Shine on you crazy diamond. I don't think there is one second of 'shine on' that isn't perfect...
Epic music at it's finest


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Speaking of quality television... with Radiohead (and other) excellent soundtrack music.
> You all need to watch Westworld. Sir Anthony Hopkins at his finest... Incredible actor.



I've been meaning to check out Westworld but haven't had the chance yet, so that clip was my first exposure - thanks! (looks awesome)



chinmie said:


> I like Beck from the very first album Mellow Gold, but i also agree with you, the Sea Change and Morning Phase are my favorite of his works



Yes, Mellow Gold is pretty awesome - I listened to it a lot when it came out. I think I related a bit too well to the "Loser" track lol. Then I lost track of his music until a few years ago when I heard Morning Phase, then Sea Change. I love those albums. Saw Beck a few months ago in concert, and it was an incredible show - so much great and diverse music.

As far as Pink Floyd is concerned, I got nothing useful to add (except that Wish You Were Here and DSOTM are two of the best albums ever recorded). Well, The Wall is pretty amazing too, but depresses the hell out of me lol. Anyway, if anyone ever gets a chance to check out a Roger Waters show, don't hesitate.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 28, 2017)

Don't miss out on westworld! It's something special if you enjoy sci fi and western genres! (more sci fi with a western topping lol). The show has a massive budget (HBO of course) and it does show in the production quality which is on par with game of thrones. But it's the acting of Evan Rachel Wood, Anthony Hopkins and others that makes the show a brilliant watch.

I can safely say you will not have seen a show quite like this before, puts a very eery spin on a futuristic theme park... and what everybody's intentions may be!

Plus you get to hear Ramin Djawdi (composer for Game of thrones) create western themed music from many radiohead and other tracks. There's some brilliant scene's with 'Exit music' and 'Motion Picture Soundtrack' playing almost unedited and when you have an epic tv show with epic soundtrack music it's a big thumbs up in my book.

I have the whole soundtrack downloaded from spotify.. it's that good.


----------



## golov17

Saoshyant said:


> Creep, Black Star, Exit Music For A Film, Paranoid Android, No Surprises, Packt Like Sardines In A Crushd Tin Box & Nude are just some suggestions for Radiohead.


 I like "Delirious?"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delirious?


----------



## chaiyuta

@ClieOS : Did you try these two yet?

Lyra Collection 32Ohm version and 150Ohm version


----------



## j4100

I saw the Earbud Thailand Black Onyx recommended quite a while back. The range has changed and the Black Lion is their top model. Does anyone have experience of these buds.


----------



## gazzington

seanc6441 said:


> Masya +1. I can now give it two thumbs up out of my hifime sabre dac running from my laptop. The vocals have gone from thin and 'watered down' to clear and with respectable fullness/body. Masya is what your looking for if you enjoy full bass and detail in the highs but without sacrificing the mids (which are brilliant), now the vocals have 'fixed' on mine. I'm very happy with this earbud.
> 
> @waynes world Just like how my Masya's have improved in vocals, I can now say the graphene's sound 10 times better too. Everything has tightened up and doesn't sound as mushy, vocals has excellent body/texture and are decently forward.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Rose earbuds it is then, and they look really stunning


----------



## ClieOS (Nov 29, 2017)

chaiyuta said:


> @ClieOS : Did you try these two yet?
> 
> Lyra Collection 32Ohm version and 150Ohm



No, and don't plan to.

Someone opinion I trusted bought both, and told me that he prefers the cheaper (the lower impedance 32ohm model) version over the more expensive version but they are essentially around the same SQ level as NiceHCK EBX. That pretty much confirmed my previous suspicion that Astrotec might have again overpriced the new Lyra (as they did on previous Lyra models) and thus the smart thing to do is to stay away.


----------



## chaiyuta

@ClieOS : Thanks for your insight information, then I will skip this brand.


----------



## euge

i'm liking the k300 pro too, really nice soundstage, unfortunately cbf bringing an amp out and about with it


----------



## chinmie

ClieOS said:


> No, and don't plan to.
> 
> Someone opinion I trusted bought both, and told me that he prefers the cheaper (the lower impedance 32ohm model) version over the more expensive version but they are essentially around the same SQ level as NiceHCK EBX. That pretty much confirmed my previous suspicion that Astrotec might have again overpriced the new Lyra (as they did on previous Lyra models) and thus the smart thing to do is to stay away.



how would you rate the NiceHCK EBX in term of sound quality compared to the champion level buds?


----------



## ClieOS

chinmie said:


> how would you rate the NiceHCK EBX in term of sound quality compared to the champion level buds?



I haven't compared EBX to other earbuds as far as ranking goes, but I'll say it is at least upper Great to around lower Contender level, simply going from impressions of the first few listening.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have to agree the Nicehck EBX is one of my favourites from my latest buys. The have a rather addictive sound. Built very well too


----------



## krunchcrispy

golov17 said:


> I like "Delirious?"
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delirious?


whoo hoo! I like ol' Marty myself. . .good choice Golov17. . .


----------



## romanov89

Hehe just ordered a k300 from nicehck. My first purchase from ali. Hopefully it turns out well.i hope Atleast k300 sounds on par with ve monk +.

Anyone owns k300 from nicehck? Any view? Seen some previous post. Not a detailed review though. Or i just miss out some other user post


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 29, 2017)

Decided to give my good old trusty modded DIY Pk2 another listen today. Reaffirmed my belief that they are the best budget earbud. That warm analog low end and sparkly mids and highs... ugh they sound just amazing out of my new dac too. Better than the graphene's at the finer details and natural timbre, with a warmer than neutral sound. Just wise the vocals were pushed forward slightly to match the instrumentals but hey it's not too bad and the vocal quality is better than the graphene's IMO. Soundstage opens up with a good source like I have now, and the bass just hits now. It's both punchy and controlled. Just love it.

I still strongly recommend these to anyone who hasn't heard the shozy sound.


----------



## daid1

seanc6441 said:


> Decided to give my good old trusty modded DIY Pk2 another listen today. Reaffirmed my belief that they are the best budget earbud. That warm analog low end and sparkly mids and highs... ugh they sound just amazing out of my new dac too. Better than the graphene's at the finer details and natural timbre imo. Just wise the vocals were pushed forward slightly to match the instrumentals but hey it's not too bad and the vocal quality is better than the graphene's IMO. Soundstage opens up with a good source like I have now, and the bass just hits now. It's both punchy and controlled. Just love it.
> 
> I still strongly recommend these to anyone who hasn't heard the shozy sound.



Can you please remember me what is your dac and from what source do you used to listen the graphene and the pk2 before? I'm planning to buy the Shozy bk, but before I would give a try to the graphene and pk2, or others. Your graphene is the 2017 model or the older one?


----------



## SweetEars

does anyone know where to buy the cloth type foams ?


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 29, 2017)

daid1 said:


> Can you please remember me what is your dac and from what source do you used to listen the graphene and the pk2 before? I'm planning to buy the Shozy bk, but before I would give a try to the graphene and pk2, or others. Your graphene is the 2017 model or the older one?


My source is now the hifime sabre dac 9018 currently powered by usb from my laptop. It's just a slightly warm full sound, but not dark sounding (or too bright). I'm not amping it as it 100% doesn't need it for low impendance/high sensitivity earbuds from my laptop, maybe the phone is a different story but I don't think this dac draws too much power so I would guess it doesn't matter if it's a laptop or mobile. The sound is powerful/well driven without an amp for my earbuds.

I have the older graphene from NiceHCK.

Personally I think the PK2 should be the first choice for anyone looking for a shozy signature to test before buying the BK. By default the pk2 is lighter on bass and vocals are not pushed forward like BK, but the overall sound signature is the most similar. The Graphene's are also pretty similar with slightly more bass than the pk2 and have a slightly bigger soundstage, but I find the neutral tonality of the mids and slighty rougher vocals to be less enjoyable than the pk2. High's are pretty similar on both but I'd give it to the PK2 for sparkle.

I have another pair of pk2 on order and I'm going to try mod the second pair with just one tiny bass port on the bottom like I did to this one but slightly smaller and without any filter to see if I can get the bass to come alive like on my own modded pair but make i easier for anyone else to try.

The bass is there on the pk2... it's just not realised in the stock form, however with the mod it sounds awesome.


----------



## daid1

seanc6441 said:


> My source is now the hifime sabre dac 9018 currently powered by usb from my laptop. It's just a slightly warm full sound, but not dark sounding (or too bright). I'm not amping it as it 100% doesn't need it for low impendance/high sensitivity earbuds from my laptop, maybe the phone is a different story but I don't think this dac draws too much power so I would guess it doesn't matter if it's a laptop or mobile. The sound is powerful/well driven without an amp for my earbuds.
> 
> I have the older graphene from NiceHCK.
> 
> ...



Thanks , soI'll buy the Pk2 and try to mod then


----------



## seanc6441

daid1 said:


> Thanks , soI'll buy the Pk2 and try to mod then



Mod is simple enough. Drill one vent of 1mm (or your tiniest drill bit) in the bottom. This brings the bass out and drops the tonality a notch to make it balance the bass and high's perfectly.

One thing to note, like the shozy bk the pk2 is suited more to rock/acoustic and 'natural' music rather than EDM/atmospheric stuff that requires a bigger sounstage mybe. The stage is better on a better source I found, but like the BK it's not an all round earbud for all music types.

If you want to enjoy it with rock/acoustic you'll love it. Plus you get the same shell as the shozy bk which is the most comfortable 

I recommend heigi donut foams for a warmer full sound, or monk thin foam cut into donut for more airy and treble.


----------



## jogawag

seanc6441 said:


> Mod is simple enough. Drill one vent of 1mm (or your tiniest drill bit) in the bottom. This brings the bass out and drops the tonality a notch to make it balance the bass and high's perfectly.
> 
> One thing to note, like the shozy bk the pk2 is suited more to rock/acoustic and 'natural' music rather than EDM/atmospheric stuff that requires a bigger sounstage mybe. The stage is better on a better source I found, but like the BK it's not an all round earbud for all music types.
> 
> ...



Which did you use as "hck diy pk2"? 
Did you use the 2nd or 3rd option of the url below?
https://aliexpress.com/item//32801437048.html


----------



## seanc6441

jogawag said:


> Which did you use as "hck diy pk2"?
> Did you use the 2nd or 3rd option of the url below?
> https://aliexpress.com/item//32801437048.html


Third. Copper brown gold colour cable.


----------



## jogawag

seanc6441 said:


> Third. Copper brown gold colour cable.


Thank you.

And does that modded version sound better than PK2s?
https://aliexpress.com/item/2017-dqsm-z-PK2s/32831045644.html


----------



## endia

seanc6441 said:


> Mod is simple enough. Drill one vent of 1mm (or your tiniest drill bit) in the bottom. This brings the bass out and drops the tonality a notch to make it balance the bass and high's perfectly.
> 
> One thing to note, like the shozy bk the pk2 is suited more to rock/acoustic and 'natural' music rather than EDM/atmospheric stuff that requires a bigger sounstage mybe. The stage is better on a better source I found, but like the BK it's not an all round earbud for all music types.
> 
> ...



hi, may i ask in the bottom where, on the driver or shell? thanks..


----------



## Ira Delphic

waynes world said:


> Got you hooked on Radiohead and *Ozark* - my job is done here lol!
> 
> Another great Radiohead song from another great album (In Rainbows):




*Halt and Catch Fire* is also an awesome show. One of my tops of all time. The final season concluded.


----------



## groucho69

seanc6441 said:


> Decided to give my good old trusty modded DIY Pk2 another listen today. Reaffirmed my belief that they are the best budget earbud. That warm analog low end and sparkly mids and highs... ugh they sound just amazing out of my new dac too. Better than the graphene's at the finer details and natural timbre, with a warmer than neutral sound. Just wise the vocals were pushed forward slightly to match the instrumentals but hey it's not too bad and the vocal quality is better than the graphene's IMO. Soundstage opens up with a good source like I have now, and the bass just hits now. It's both punchy and controlled. Just love it.
> 
> I still strongly recommend these to anyone who hasn't heard the shozy sound.



Mine arrived yesterday. They are well worth the cost, especially the 11-11 cost.


----------



## DBaldock9

seanc6441 said:


> Mod is simple enough. Drill one vent of 1mm (or your tiniest drill bit) in the bottom. This brings the bass out and drops the tonality a notch to make it balance the bass and high's perfectly.
> 
> One thing to note, like the shozy bk the pk2 is suited more to rock/acoustic and 'natural' music rather than EDM/atmospheric stuff that requires a bigger sounstage mybe. The stage is better on a better source I found, but like the BK it's not an all round earbud for all music types.
> 
> ...



Have you posted a photo of what "on the bottom" means to you?


----------



## seanc6441

DBaldock9 said:


> Have you posted a photo of what "on the bottom" means to you?



@endia @DBaldock9 
I did before I just cannot find it for the life of me. I posted the whole instructon set but cannot find the pictures I posted...

I'll just post pictures soon again when I mod the second pair I ordered because I'm going to try a smaller 1mm vent and without adding the Sugru/epoxy to semi close the back vent. See how that turns out and if it's just as good or better I'll post how to do that because they nobody will have to buy extra supplies.


----------



## j4100

seanc6441 said:


> @endia @DBaldock9
> I did before I just cannot find it for the life of me. I posted the whole instructon set but cannot find the pictures I posted...
> 
> I'll just post pictures soon again when I mod the second pair I ordered because I'm going to try a smaller 1mm vent and without adding the Sugru/epoxy to semi close the back vent. See how that turns out and if it's just as good or better I'll post how to do that because they nobody will have to buy extra supplies.



Was it this one?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1659#post-13854181


----------



## waynes world (Nov 29, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> Decided to give my good old trusty modded DIY Pk2 another listen today. Reaffirmed my belief that they are the best budget earbud. That warm analog low end and sparkly mids and highs... ugh they sound just amazing out of my new dac too. Better than the graphene's at the finer details and natural timbre, with a warmer than neutral sound. Just wise the vocals were pushed forward slightly to match the instrumentals but hey it's not too bad and the vocal quality is better than the graphene's IMO. Soundstage opens up with a good source like I have now, and the bass just hits now. It's both punchy and controlled. Just love it.
> 
> I still strongly recommend these to anyone who hasn't heard the shozy sound.



I may have to give them a shot. These the ones?

Edit: D'oh, I now see that this whole last page is devoted to "are these the ones" lol


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 29, 2017)

waynes world said:


> I may have to give them a shot. These the ones?
> 
> Edit: D'oh, I now see that this whole last page is devoted to "are these the ones" lol


Indeed they are.

@j4100 yes that's one of the posts. Another was showing the bottom vent.


----------



## gazzington

Do the rose masya have the widest soundstage out of earbuds under €150?


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 29, 2017)

gazzington said:


> Do the rose masya have the widest soundstage out of earbuds under €150?


It’s about on par with the emx500 as far asI remember in that bud. It may be wider but equally deep. There is probably a bigger soundstage in an earbud under that price but the Masya is plenty big enough for any kind of music.

The forward vocals and slight mid emphasis do make it seem like an intimate soundstage though, whereas the emx500 feels slightly more spacious. In reality the Masya is quite large and probably on par with the emx500 overall.


----------



## gazzington

seanc6441 said:


> It’s about on par with the emx500 as far asI remember in that bud. It may be wider but equally deep. There is probably a bigger soundstage in an earbud under that price but the Masya is plenty big enough for any kind of music.
> 
> The forward vocals and slight mid emphasis do make it seem like an intimate soundstage though, whereas the emx500 feels slightly more spacious. In reality the Masya is quite large and probably on par with the emx500 overall.


Thanks that's very useful. I love the emx500 so the masya sounds ideal for me


----------



## daid1

@seanc6441  thanks again , one more question, is that one that mention waynes https://it.aliexpress.com/item/2017...e-Spina-a-Testa-Piatta-Tappi/32831045644.html or this one https://it.aliexpress.com/store/product/2017-New-NICEHCK-DIY-PK2-Earbud-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud-Flat-Head-Plug-Earplugs-Headset-Free/1825606_32801437048.html 
*
*


----------



## HungryPanda

My little review of NiceHCK EBX: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-ebx.22771/


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 29, 2017)

daid1 said:


> @seanc6441  thanks again , one more question, is that one that mention waynes https://it.aliexpress.com/item/2017...e-Spina-a-Testa-Piatta-Tappi/32831045644.html or this one https://it.aliexpress.com/store/product/2017-New-NICEHCK-DIY-PK2-Earbud-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud-Flat-Head-Plug-Earplugs-Headset-Free/1825606_32801437048.html
> *
> *


have not tried the PK2s version. Only the diy pk2. maybe someone else with both can comment.

Jogawag says the pk2s s best (ranked the pk2 second of the diy pk buds) so maybe try that one. This got me curious so I ordered one, if its better than the diy pk2 its a really nice earbud then. Both are €18.


----------



## euge (Nov 29, 2017)

daid1 said:


> @seanc6441  thanks again , one more question, is that one that mention waynes https://it.aliexpress.com/item/2017...e-Spina-a-Testa-Piatta-Tappi/32831045644.html or this one https://it.aliexpress.com/store/product/2017-New-NICEHCK-DIY-PK2-Earbud-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud-Flat-Head-Plug-Earplugs-Headset-Free/1825606_32801437048.html
> *
> *



I think @jogawag did one

link


----------



## mbwilson111

euge said:


> I think @jogawag did a one
> 
> link



I remember that he did a detailed comparison.  A search within the thread should bring it up.


----------



## seanc6441

The panda has both vents open on the back. The pk2 had only one open (top one). Could this be why the bass is stronger? I ordered one to test for myself because I love these earbuds but I hope it’s not literally a rebranding of the same driver with an open vent!

Anything other than bass change? My mod changed the bass also, I wonder if the panda has other benefits in sound?


----------



## euge (Nov 29, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> The panda has both vents open on the back. The pk2 had only one open (top one). Could this be why the bass is stronger? I ordered one to test for myself because I love these earbuds but I hope it’s not literally a rebranding of the same driver with an open vent!
> 
> Anything other than bass change? My mod changed the bass also, I wonder if the panda has other benefits in sound?



I liked the cable soft and smooth, too bad it doesn't get much use these days, too many other ones. From memory the mids and treble were pretty airy, not sure how it compares to the pk2.


----------



## seanc6441

Jogawag has both, but I guess I will so too unless I cancel my order so maybe we can both give our opinions of the best pk2 bud. (he already said he prefers the pk2s but I'll check it against my modded pk2 to see if other than bass does it actually sound any better.


----------



## jogawag

seanc6441 said:


> Jogawag has both, but I guess I will so too unless I cancel my order so maybe we can both give our opinions of the best pk2 bud. (he already said he prefers the pk2s but I'll check it against my modded pk2 to see if other than bass does it actually sound any better.



I am sorry. My pk2 is "Black Green PK2" which is the last color in the page of url below. So my pk2 may be different from yours... 
https://aliexpress.com/item//32823569005.html

I also modded the back small hole, and the bass became stronger. But still the bass of pk2s sounds a little stronger...

So, please compare by yourself the pk2s and  your modded pk2.


----------



## euge (Nov 29, 2017)

@seanc6441 since u have an amp now time for Seahf AWK-F150C?

these Kineras though...


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 29, 2017)

euge said:


> @seanc6441 since u have an amp now time for Seahf AWK-F150C?


I have a DAC with an ‘inline’/built in amp. I can’t confirm if the amp is powerful enough but I may try with that earbud... It seems like a decently powerful amp so I would like to test earbuds like that now.


----------



## chellity

euge said:


> @seanc6441 since u have an amp now time for Seahf AWK-F150C?
> 
> these Kineras though...


 
stop it, I want my damn kineras already  been about a week since the last tracking update...please, just send it to LA instead of NY since im in LA goddamnit.


----------



## SweetEars (Nov 30, 2017)

just got  the new version graphene ( blue cable) ...........the sound is hollow....does it need burn in?


----------



## acap13

SweetEars said:


> just got  the new version graphene...........the sound is hollow....does it need burn in?



Hollow sound does also means suck up midrange. Its probably the signature or how it was tuned to be. Personally, I'd give it 30-50 hours burn in to see how will the midbass( presuming ) settle down a bit and let the midrange flows in comfortably.


----------



## SweetEars

acap13 said:


> Hollow sound does also means suck up midrange. Its probably the signature or how it was tuned to be. Personally, I'd give it 30-50 hours burn in to see how will the midbass( presuming ) settle down a bit and let the midrange flows in comfortably.


midrange is present, ..  tried changing to the monk ve thin foams, they sound more revealing now... the soundstage is expansive and the positioning is decent..  a bit more transparent than the R4Ys and emx500.. bass seems to be a thud rather than boomy with decent extension  to sub .. whole sound impression seems to be boxy for now.


----------



## acap13

SweetEars said:


> midrange is present, ..  tried changing to the monk ve thin foams, they sound more revealing now... the soundstage is expansive and the positioning is decent..  a bit more transparent than the R4Ys and emx500.. bass seems to be a thud rather than boomy with decent extension  to sub .. whole sound impression seems to be boxy for now.



Interesting observation. Quite interested with this new Graphene. The boxy sounds though is quite a bummer but hopefully it will settle down and improve on transition. Will hear again from you after burn in, mate.


----------



## SweetEars (Nov 30, 2017)

acap13 said:


> Interesting observation. Quite interested with this new Graphene. The boxy sounds though is quite a bummer but hopefully it will settle down and improve on transition. Will hear again from you after burn in, mate.


i read in another post discussing the older version graphenes that they need burn in ....

for now i can use the following words from this list to describe these new graphenes
*
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/describing-sound-a-glossary.220770/
Ambience - *Impression of an acoustic space, such as the performing hall in which a recording was made.
*Transparent/ holographic *- Easy to hear into the music, detailed, clear, not muddy. Wide flat frequency response, sharp time response, very low distortion and noise. A hear through quality that is akin to clarity and reveals all aspects of detail.
*Gentle *- Opposite of edgy. The harmonics (of the highs and upper mids) are not exaggerated, or may even be weak.
*Headstage *- The perception of the Soundstage while listening to headphones.
*Depth *- A sense of distance (near to far) of different instruments.
*Lush (2)* - A "lush" sound has a sense of warmth and fullness. Notes are more authoritative and have a sense of life about them. It is a sound free of any sibilance or brightness. It does not mean colored, however. It is an open and inviting sound enveloping the listener into its soundstage. (source: unkown headfier)
*Smooth *- Easy on the ears, not harsh. Flat frequency response, especially in the midrange. Lack of peaks and dips in the response.
*Spacious *- Conveying a sense of space, ambiance, or room around the instruments; stereo reverb; early reflections.
*Wet *- A reverberant sound, something with decay. Opposite of Dry.
*Nasal *- Honky, a bump in the response around 600 Hz.


----------



## acap13

SweetEars said:


> i read in another post discussing the older version graphenes that they need burn in ....
> 
> for now i can use the following words from this list to describe these new graphenes
> *
> ...



That would be much of help. The glossary will help to gain better understanding among readers when people describe sound signature. Thanks for sharing


----------



## SweetEars

the new version graphene i have is the blue cable... i not sure if the brown ones will sound better?...the blue cable seems to be braided too


----------



## Tim Le

Thanks to everybody who offered recommendations on my last post. I've got a pair of Campfred 2s coming in tomorrow! These will be my first pair of earbuds over $20 

Can't wait to hear how they stack up to some of my IEMs. Stay tuned for impressions!


----------



## SweetEars

can anyone tell me if the old version graphenes soundstage, treble, mid and bass characteristics?


----------



## gazzington

Anybody know anything about FAAEAL Snow-lotus 1.0/2.0?


----------



## HungryPanda

I have the Faaeal Snow Lotus 2.0 64 ohm and they are great earbuds. powerful bass and guitars sound incredible on these. I listen to a lot of rock with these


----------



## listen4joy

NICEHCK DIY Graphene  MX760 arrived!!!
 i came from monks+ and i am very impressed , details,bass they are blast! a little gem. shozy bk star is next on earbuds list...


----------



## SweetEars

listen4joy said:


> NICEHCK DIY Graphene  MX760 arrived!!!
> i came from monks+ and i am very impressed , details,bass they are blast! a little gem. shozy bk star is next on earbuds list...


which version did u order? new or the old ones


----------



## listen4joy

the new one 2017.


----------



## SweetEars

listen4joy said:


> the new one 2017.


which colour cable???


----------



## SweetEars

listen4joy said:


> the new one 2017.


can u give me  the link u bought from???


----------



## SweetEars

listen4joy said:


> NICEHCK DIY Graphene  MX760 arrived!!!
> i came from monks+ and i am very impressed , details,bass they are blast! a little gem. shozy bk star is next on earbuds list...


can u tell me if there is some hollow sound to it??


----------



## listen4joy

color is silver. here is the link

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...821104494.html?spm=2114.search0104.8.4.GxKgBO


i dont think the sound is hollow i would say its natural and isolated, i liked it it give you the ilussion of accruacy.


----------



## SweetEars

listen4joy said:


> color is silver. here is the link
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...821104494.html?spm=2114.search0104.8.4.GxKgBO
> 
> ...


i ordered a different one... the frequency range is not the same


----------



## SweetEars (Nov 30, 2017)

the new graphene i ordered has a lot of background sound, spacious and huge soundstage..the articulation is more forward back ( depth) than top bottom  ( like the emX 500).


----------



## DBaldock9

I guess you've seen that Graphene is useful for things other than earbud drivers... 

https://www.mnn.com/green-tech/rese...can-hold-weight-human-after-drinking-graphene


----------



## lyrean (Nov 30, 2017)

I also received the newest NiceHCK Graphenes today, with brown cable. I first ordered the original Graphenes but cancelled that order.

For initial impression I would say that these do not sound very engaging. Yes, the soundstage is wide, maybe too wide for my liking. There seems to be some sort of veil between the listener and the music that is playing (at least with foams on). These do come with foams on out of the box.

The bass (as a instrument) sounds quite bland, even PK2 is more engaging in that area IMO. Maybe I have to order the original Graphenes so I can compare, or PK2s.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 30, 2017)

lyrean said:


> I also received the newest NiceHCK Graphenes today, with brown cable. I first ordered the original Graphenes but cancelled that order.
> 
> For initial impression I would say that these do not sound very engaging. Yes, the soundstage is wide, maybe too wide for my liking. There seems to be some sort of veil between the listener and the music that is playing (at least with foams on). These do come with foams on out of the box.
> 
> The bass (as a instrument) sounds quite bland, even PK2 is more engaging in that area IMO. Maybe I have to order the original Graphenes so I can compare, or PK2s.


My issue with the original graphene (other than the vocals being slightly harsh/grainy and not emphasised for clarity. Is that they can sound a bit sloppy in the mids. Like they didn’t quite tune the mids as well as the lows and highs and you’re left with a less refined midrange than say the diy pk2 which has better mid range runing but less bass quantity. Veil is pretty good description of the vocals imo, they don’t excite you and lack a certain presence in the ear.

Maybe poor tuning is not the issue as much as the derivers capabilities being more suitable to adequately handling all frequencies but missing out on a certain quality in mids and vocals that I prefer. They are more well rounded than the diy pk2 but less refined and natural in the mid range.


----------



## lyrean

seanc6441 said:


> My issue with the original graphene (other than the vocals being slightly harsh/grainy and not emphasised for clarity. Is that they can sound a bit sloppy in the mids. Like they didn’t quite tune the mids as well as the lows and highs and you’re left with a less refined midrange than say the diy pk2 which has better mid range runing but less bass quantity.



Good to know. My problem with PK2 is that it is somewhat lacking in bass quantity and doesn't go that low, otherwise I like it (I don't want to mod it). I alternate it with Yincrow X6 and most of time I find myself listening to Yincrow for some reason...maybe it is just more engaging and foot tapping experience.


----------



## seanc6441

lyrean said:


> Good to know. My problem with PK2 is that it is somewhat lacking in bass quantity and doesn't go that low, otherwise I like it (I don't want to mod it). I alternate it with Yincrow X6 and most of time I find myself listening to Yincrow for some reason...maybe it is just more engaging and foot tapping experience.


It’s a pity you don’t want to mod it. Mine have as much bass impact as the shozy bk/cygnus now, but it’s not even too muddy. It just hits harder and slightly deeper.

But if you don’t want to mod it I understand, i’ll test out my modded pk2 vs the pk2s I ordered and see if the pk2s is as good or better.


----------



## prone2phone

I also got the new graphenes today and I  think SweetEars described the sound very accurately in the post #25386. Only not sure on the wet thing. To me from bass to mids they are slightly dry sounding. The highlight of them to me is sweet trebles and speed.

And I figured out that in order to bring out the mids I have to rotate left bud on the vertical axis counterclockwise and the right clockwise and rotate stems upwards like 7°.  This way the centers of earpieces point directly to the eardrums and mids come alive. Also the bass, for good or bad, because it gains quantity and this quality that some people describe as 'cut from stone'. Unfortunately I have to be relatively still to keep this kind of sound.

Funny that I also ordered the blue cable version, but in reality the color is kind of silver-grey-blue depending on lightning and it is sturdy but has memory.

Overall great earbuds. I am sure many headfiers will appreciate these diy mx760. Hope somebody finds my fairytale useful.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 30, 2017)

prone2phone said:


> I also got the new graphenes today and I  think SweetEars described the sound very accurately in the post #25386. Only not sure on the wet thing. To me from bass to mids they are slightly dry sounding. The highlight of them to me is sweet trebles and speed.
> 
> And I figured out that in order to bring out the mids I have to rotate left bud on the vertical axis counterclockwise and the right clockwise and rotate stems upwards like 7°.  This way the centers of earpieces point directly to the eardrums and mids come alive. Also the bass, for good or bad, because it gains quantity and this quality that some people describe as 'cut from stone'. Unfortunately I have to be relatively still to keep this kind of sound.
> 
> ...


lol I did the same twisting of the drivers on my diy pk2's as I could literally remove the front grill, twist it, and stick them back in. I swapped back to default after doing my bass mod because the sound was unchanged after no matter what angle to driver was played at. But before I did notice turning grill on the pk2 (because the bottom and top are blocked off) did help slighty with the mids, firing the sound more directly into your ear rather than bouncing it off your ears first which would probably deliver more of a chamer effect for increased sub bass but lose out of the mids and detail slightly.

So I think you are spot on with that point, at least for some earbuds with different vent types in my case.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have always found get earbuds to sit in the right position in your ears is crucial to a good sound


----------



## gazzington

Any body know which ear buds are great for classical music?


----------



## RodRevenge

gazzington said:


> Anybody know anything about FAAEAL Snow-lotus 1.0/2.0?


I have the snow lotus 1.0, blue version, good earbuds for metal, drums and guitars sound really nice, build quality is not that good sadly, my left bud is doing a rattling sound in bass heavy parts when i turn up the volume.


----------



## HungryPanda

RodRevenge said:


> I have the snow lotus 1.0, blue version, good earbuds for metal, drums and guitars sound really nice, build quality is not that good sadly, my left bud is doing a rattling sound in bass heavy parts when i turn up the volume.


Time to open up that sucker and get glueing


----------



## RodRevenge

HungryPanda said:


> Time to open up that sucker and get glueing


I tried but can't open in, im too weak i think


----------



## HungryPanda

I have the Snow lotus 2.0 and the build seems ok but it is one of the only earbuds I need to use the shirt clip just because the splitter is so heavy


----------



## krunchcrispy

gazzington said:


> Any body know which ear buds are great for classical music?


I like Rx-1 with Monk+ foam donuts for chamber stuff, and I really like Fengru EMX500 with monk donuts for symphonic (the EMX500 has nice separation, soundstage, and bass for my liking).  The Shozy BK is good for chamber, but lacks soundstage for symphony.


----------



## chellity

gazzington said:


> Any body know which ear buds are great for classical music?



for classic TOTL, people have always recommended rose mojito.  i'm sure a case could be made for the masya as well, if you can handle the terrible fit of either of these buds.

for a newer option, it sounds like moondrop nameless would be a great budget option for classical since it has a lot of desireable traits for that genre (correct tonality).  They sound kind of similar to the rx-1 by reading their traits on headfi, but i'm curious if the newer moondrop nameless would best the rx-1 for classical


----------



## Raketen

IIRC mids are a little weird but I remember liking Audio Technica CM707 for classical, especially if you enjoy low volume listening.


----------



## gazzington

chellity said:


> for classic TOTL, people have always recommended rose mojito.  i'm sure a case could be made for the masya as well, if you can handle the terrible fit of either of these buds.
> 
> for a newer option, it sounds like moondrop nameless would be a great budget option for classical since it has a lot of desireable traits for that genre (correct tonality).  They sound kind of similar to the rx-1 by reading their traits on headfi, but i'm curious if the newer moondrop nameless would best the rx-1 for classical


I've been wondering about moondrop nameless myself.


----------



## rkw

gazzington said:


> Any body know which ear buds are great for classical music?


I like the PMV B01 Aoede for its natural, realistic portrayal of acoustic instruments.
https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=pmv+aoede
I find the RX-1 to be too bright, and the VE buds (Monk+, Zen 2) add an unnatural reverb. I also like the Yinman 500.


----------



## jogawag (Nov 30, 2017)

gazzington said:


> Any body know which ear buds are great for classical music?


ClieOS has recommended rose mojito for classic . "Clinical sounding that is really neutral and analytical with a huge soundstage.  Absolutely great with classical or orchestral works."


----------



## noknok23 (Nov 30, 2017)

gazzington said:


> Any body know which ear buds are great for classical music?


puresound 500 "classical" I guess but you need HIFi source (not phone)

edit: Has anyone actually heard both old and new graphenes? It happens a lot that sellers change the name, cable, or else for earbuds that are identical in SQ
like:
pk2s becoming panda (I ordered the pk2s and received panda)
diy pk2 with different cable with an "upgrade" that is nothing else than cosmetics (seller said it himself)
puresound 600 with 30% increase price upgrade cable that is "slightly clearer but not much difference" (according to the seller again)


----------



## UsaGins

I got old graphene the other day.
Old graphene has a feeling that there is reverberation in the whole band.
It seems that it basically gives a good effect to cymbals etc.
However, I think that it is often that we do not give good influence to vocals.
Perhaps I think that @seanc6441 feels the same way.


----------



## seanc6441

gazzington said:


> Any body know which ear buds are great for classical music?



Probably Rose Mojito if you've got money to burn lol


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 30, 2017)

UsaGins said:


> I got old graphene the other day.
> Old graphene has a feeling that there is reverberation in the whole band.
> It seems that it basically gives a good effect to cymbals etc.
> However, I think that it is often that we do not give good influence to vocals.
> Perhaps I think that @seanc6441 feels the same way.


The best description so far was given by a user above (too lazy to check sorry lol) when he said it sounded 'veiled'. It's like there is a filter between you and the driver which is reducing the clarity/nuance of the music. This is especially through of vocals but the whole mid range is affected I believe.

I'd gladly accept a slight bass loss of pk2 rather than a veiled sound, which I find makes it difficult to enjoy the finer details of the music with the graphenes.

I wonder if extensive burn in (maybe 100-200 hours) and a powerful source would help clean up some of the veiled sound. But I don't know for sure.


----------



## chellity (Nov 30, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> The best description so far was given by a user above (too lazy to check sorry lol) when he said it sounded 'veiled'. It's like there is a filter between you and the driver which is reducing the clarity/nuance of the music. This is especially through of vocals but the whole mid range is affected I believe.
> 
> I'd gladly accept a slight bass loss of pk2 rather than a veiled sound, which I find makes it difficult to enjoy the finer details of the music with the graphenes.
> 
> I wonder if extensive burn in (maybe 100-200 hours) and a powerful source would help clean up some of the veiled sound. But I don't know for sure.



A veil could probably describe it.  I was thinking of graphene mids as having below average separation despite the faster attack of graphenes (midbass bleed into mids?).  The higher level of detail seems to be missing in very busy songs.


----------



## waynes world (Nov 30, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> The best description so far was given by a user above (too lazy to check sorry lol) when he said it sounded 'veiled'. It's like there is a filter between you and the driver which is reducing the clarity/nuance of the music. This is especially through of vocals but the whole mid range is affected I believe.
> 
> I'd gladly accept a slight bass loss of pk2 rather than a veiled sound, which I find makes it difficult to enjoy the finer details of the music with the graphenes.
> 
> I wonder if extensive burn in (maybe 100-200 hours) and a powerful source would help clean up some of the veiled sound. But I don't know for sure.


 
I'm usually not one to defend buds, but I simply do not hear ANY veil with the graphenes. Maybe my ears suck. Or else something else is going on (btw I use donuts with them).

If that's what you're hearing though, I believe you.


----------



## HungryPanda

I use donuts on my graphenes as well, funny thing is mine came with black plastic fronts, others got metal fronted ones and now there is a newer one so do not know how different ones sound


----------



## SweetEars (Nov 30, 2017)

lyrean said:


> I also received the newest NiceHCK Graphenes today, with brown cable. I first ordered the original Graphenes but cancelled that order.
> 
> For initial impression I would say that these do not sound very engaging. Yes, the soundstage is wide, maybe too wide for my liking. There seems to be some sort of veil between the listener and the music that is playing (at least with foams on). These do come with foams on out of the box.
> 
> The bass (as a instrument) sounds quite bland, even PK2 is more engaging in that area IMO. Maybe I have to order the original Graphenes so I can compare, or PK2s.


to me its not really a veil because changing the foams make them sound different .  the vocals tend to get harsh under high volume.. and so far using it for one day the hollowness quality to  the  soundstage seems to be lesser now..maybe they need a burn in...

. the sound stage is incredible though, if there is one thing good about these new version . i have never heard this amount of soundstage in an earbud however their mids are  not engaging like other earbuds like the monks , but pretty decent and average  on their own. They are present just that they lack a bit in nuances and are dispersed in the background as a soundstage. Note these new graphene isnt really a V-shaped sound but rather U shaped

 Bass is somewhat less detailed than the emx500 or others int he same price range not suitable for certain types of music. They have more background ambience and acoustics than the EMX500. However like someone mentioned in some busy sounding sound  details tend to get missed out due to the sweet treble.

These new graphenes seem to be more tuned towards  soundstage  rather than being articulated or nuanced.but they do sound better on my ipad than laptop

i can also say these new graphenes are equipment
dependent.. i will do a proper review after a few days if there are any changes as..i do not know if the graphene needs burn in effect. the hollowness is less pronounced now and they sound better than yesterday.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 30, 2017)

HungryPanda said:


> I use donuts on my graphenes as well, funny thing is mine came with black plastic fronts, others got metal fronted ones and now there is a newer one so do not know how different ones sound


Mine is also the plastic front and we al have different opinions but I'll stick by what was said for now at about 20 hours play time (mostly burn in) they sound veiled (at the time I was thinking this is 'muddy/muffled', but veiled is a more accurate description) to my ears in comparison to the similar signature of the pk2 or cygnus.

Now if it was just the cygnus that was ahead I would put it down to price, but if my pk2 is notably less veiled I have to think it's a factor of the graphene driver causing this effect. For experiments sake I may just leave them to burn in for as log as possible and revisit them after 100 and 200 hours to see if anything changes. I'll need to find some source I won't use for a week though lol


----------



## SweetEars

waynes world said:


> I'm usually not one to defend buds, but I simply do not hear ANY veil with the graphenes. Maybe my ears suck. Or else something else is going on (btw I use donuts with them).
> 
> If that's what you're hearing though, I believe you.


I believe something else like a burn in effect is needed? i remember my previous 2 earbuds the monks VE + and EMX500 both sounded better after a while. and i stitched to the EMX500 for some time and went back to the monks and found them somewhat inferior


----------



## HungryPanda

I also think they need to be given a bit of power, they sound better from my desktop amp than my daps


----------



## SweetEars

HungryPanda said:


> I also think they need to be given a bit of power, they sound better from my desktop amp than my daps


which u are referring to?


----------



## HungryPanda

The graphene earbuds


----------



## SweetEars

i am curious whats the difference between the new graphene and old graphene


----------



## SweetEars

the new graphene have good forward back articulation ( depth)  in music though


----------



## acap13

I do also believe that Graphene when feed it through top daps or dacs, its ready to spread its leg like a champ in my experience. Moving from chord mojo to AK320 is like a night and day experience to my ears. IMHO of course


----------



## SweetEars (Nov 30, 2017)

try listening to this on the old graphenes and tell me how it sounds like.. 

amazing AR Rahman's music album reelased in 1997 way ahead of its time


----------



## acap13

SweetEars said:


> try listening to this on the old graphenes and tell me how it sounds like..
> 
> amazing AR Rahman's music album reelased in 1997 way ahead of its time




I will try to give it a listen soon with chord mojo.. Nice track to test anyway!


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 30, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> try listening to this on the old graphenes and tell me how it sounds like..
> 
> amazing AR Rahman's music album reelased in 1997 way ahead of its time




Well I'm hearing the same as I stated above. The diy modded pk2 and shozy bk show a typical balanced sound. Pk2 modded is a bit warmer in the midrange but bk obviously more articulated and reach deeper in the bass. Overall both sound good to my ear.

In between those two I tried the graphene's. First thing you notice is the slight V signature, I either dislike it and that's giving me the impression of hearing a 'veiled' midrange, or maybe the signature is V shaped and also slightly veiled.

All I know is I hear a nice respectable bass, it's got decent sub bass and a punchy mid bass, although it's a little sluggish if compared to the BK, but nothing too serious. The high end is clean and well defined. Detailing is good and with the right foams there's not much issues with treble peaks. But!.... it's missing that natural timbre and mid range sparkle I get from the other two, it just doesn't sit well with me. I really dislike anything that's not aiming for a balanced response. It doesn't have to be flat (obviousy) but it has to have balanced between the 3 ranges, maybe that's my issue with the graphene's.

I would actually sooner take the emx500's U shaped signature over this one, it's a more honest sound and you can see what it's trying to achieve with the atmospheric effect. Because with the graphene's I hear the 'balanced musical' sound I get from the shozy bk and pk2 and I think 'ahhh' this is lovely... but then there's just no magic happening in between the lows and high's and that really bugs me lol.

Edit: I make it sound like it's a huge issue. It's not, for most it may even not be an issue at all. I just love mid range and this mid range is like a 7/10 whereas the pk is like an 8/10 and the bk a 9/10 (It's actually a 10 ... but you should always leave room for improvement haha).


----------



## SweetEars

AR Rahman music + EMX500 = perfect match 

AR Rahman's music contains a lot of sparkle sounds and background accoustics


----------



## SweetEars (Nov 30, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> Well I'm hearing the same as I stated above. The diy modded pk2 and shozy bk show a typical balanced sound. Pk2 modded is a bit warmer in the midrange but bk obviously more articulated and reach deeper in the bass. Overall both sound good to my ear.
> 
> In between those two I tried the graphene's. First thing you notice is the V signature, I either dislike it and that's giving me the impression of hearing a 'veiled' midrange, or maybe the signature is V shaped and also slightly veiled.
> 
> All I know is I hear a nice respectable bass, it's got decent sub bass and a punchy mid bass, although it's a little sluggish if compared to the BK, but nothing too serious. The high end is clean and well defined. Detailing is good and with the right foams there's not much issues with treble peaks. But!.... it's missing that natural timbre and mid range sparkle I get from the other two, it just doesn't sit well with me. I really dislike anything that's not aiming for a balanced response. It doesn't have to be flat (obviousy) but it has to have balanced between the 3 ranges, maybe that's my issue with the graphene's.



all i know the music of Daud seems to ace on the EMX500 .. with the new graphenes, the impact  is not that much in the treble articulation but  lot of the background ambience is present


----------



## razysm_7

Hi...yesterday I got my NICEHCK EBX, my first earbud was HE 150ohm.. Can EBX has big bass lika HE 150ohm? need opinion what foam is the best for EBX donut or full? 
and how does EBX mid compare to shozy BK 's mid?
Overall this earbud is good for easy listening for me..


----------



## SweetEars (Nov 30, 2017)

also try Rahman's outstanding work in the 1990s. the fusion of music technology and creativity.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 30, 2017)

woah... as I was writing that post above the second track begin on that video. There was finger clicking and I legit had to stop, go back and listen to it again as it sounded that realistic in my ear lol


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 30, 2017)

razysm_7 said:


> Hi...yesterday I got my NICEHCK EBX, my first earbud was HE 150ohm.. Can EBX has big bass lika HE 150ohm? need opinion what foam is the best for EBX donut or full?
> and how does EBX mid compare to shozy BK 's mid?
> Overall this earbud is good for easy listening for me..


I don't know can it? You say you have both? Why don't you tell us haha

As for the mid range vs shozy bk, I think only panda has the ebx and as far as I remember he does not have the shozy bk unfortunately.

Edit: No he does not as far as his inventory list is concerned... by the way @HungryPanda you have a pretty incredible collection of headphones there, not to mention the IEM's and of couse earbuds too!


----------



## razysm_7

seanc6441 said:


> I don't know can it? You say you have both? Why don't you tell us haha
> 
> As for the mid range vs shozy bk, I think only panda has the ebx and as far as I remember he does not have the shozy bk unfortunately.



HE 150 ohm has very big low...good for basshead..it really sound like IEM..I really amazed when I try it for the first time.
I think EBX has flat characteristic (CMIIW).


----------



## seanc6441

razysm_7 said:


> HE 150 ohm has very big low...good for basshead..it really sound like IEM..I really amazed when I try it for the first time.
> I think EBX has flat characteristic (CMIIW).


I'd probably prefer the ebx then. I like bass but not overpowering the mid range 

Shozy BK mid range is near perfect though so if it can beat the shozy I would be very impressed.


----------



## razysm_7

seanc6441 said:


> I'd probably prefer the ebx then. I like bass but not overpowering the mid range
> 
> Shozy BK mid range is near perfect though so if it can beat the shozy I would be very impressed.



HE 150 ohm use it when you want to listen EDM music..


----------



## SweetEars

seanc6441 said:


> woah... as I was writing that post above the second track begin on that video. There was finger clicking and I legit had to stop, go back and listen to it again as it sounded that realistic in my ear lol


which track ????


----------



## SweetEars

for testing ambience and background sound


----------



## SweetEars

SweetEars said:


> also try Rahman's outstanding work in the 1990s. the fusion of music technology and creativity.




The theme of the soundtrack is national mood presented in film  soundtrack style to celebrate India's Independence 

Vande Mataram is a 1997 studio album by Indian musician A. R. Rahman. It is the largest selling Indian non-film album to date. It released on December 9, 1997 by Columbia Records, a music label owned by Sony Music. It was released on the Golden Jubilee anniversary of India's independence and has been instrumental in instilling a sense of patriotic pride and national unity amongst the people of India. Ever since release, both the album and its title song "Maa Tujhe Salaam" have had a profoundly positive and unifying impact on the nationalistic and patriotic mood of the country. The album won the 1997 Screen Videocon Award for Best Non-film Album


----------



## SweetEars

let me know how these music sound slike


----------



## SweetEars

not sure but the new graphenes sound better than yesterday ...


----------



## SweetEars

for ambience, articulation and details testing


----------



## 10RV

Hello folks, long time lurker, first time poster here.

Over time I accumulated handful of buds, to be exact VE moks+ (3 pairs , Yincrow x6, Seahf AWK-F32T, **** DIY EMX500 and finally the Graphene (the new 2017 i guess). I also own quite some over ears but this is not topic for those. I am powering all my gear thru Aune X1s (+smsl sap6 if power needed).

The question is - i need an upgrade, from all buds I own i like EMX500 the most. Is there any difference between ****, fengru and such sellers?
I like the textured and detailed bass on EMX500's, also its clarity, separation and soundstage, really nice mids and vocals too, but I want more.. I'd like to spend up to 150eur but i could squeeze a couple more eurys  It should be able to ship to Europe 

Any suggestions? Tnx


----------



## gazzington

I have been using graphnes with my colorfly c3 all morning. Sounds very clear and spacious


----------



## HungryPanda

seanc6441 said:


> I don't know can it? You say you have both? Why don't you tell us haha
> 
> As for the mid range vs shozy bk, I think only panda has the ebx and as far as I remember he does not have the shozy bk unfortunately.
> 
> Edit: No he does not as far as his inventory list is concerned... by the way @HungryPanda you have a pretty incredible collection of headphones there, not to mention the IEM's and of couse earbuds too!


 Thank you sean I do suffer from the head-fi affliction and a love of listening to music


----------



## j4100

HungryPanda said:


> Thank you sean I do suffer from the head-fi affliction and a love of listening to music



I appear to have contracted this disease. I have always loved listening to music, but the head-fi earbud problem has kicked in. 

My 11.11 order arrived this week. I'm burning in just now. I'm sceptical about burning in, but since there are at least as many who state burn in is required, I make a point of doing this first. I had a quick listen to the Samsara last night and was impressed. I'll need to listen further later today.


----------



## chinmie

10RV said:


> Hello folks, long time lurker, first time poster here.
> 
> Over time I accumulated handful of buds, to be exact VE moks+ (3 pairs , Yincrow x6, Seahf AWK-F32T, **** DIY EMX500 and finally the Graphene (the new 2017 i guess). I also own quite some over ears but this is not topic for those. I am powering all my gear thru Aune X1s (+smsl sap6 if power needed).
> 
> ...



something more in line with the EMX500 would be the K's 500 or Samsara


----------



## noknok23 (Dec 1, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> for testing ambience and background sound



this is really beautiful thank you
this thread is becoming such a mess... is the earbuds renaissance over?
I like to test my earbuds with Dopplereffekt (Bass; Treble, speed, soundstage)


one a more serious note:

Blur "black cable" scales really well. I'm am using nuansa A1 amp and sound is very rich yet still musical. nuansa A1 and P1 have rather intimate; foward sound wich balance very well with the expansive soundstage of the blur.
on the other hand, I've been using ps100-600 from puresounds P1 and it's surprisingly easy to drive. actually, it suffers from overload and i hear distortion using the amp with it. Sound is very clear and musical with the P1 alone. I fail to really be really critical about it because it's one of the best and most balanced sound I ever heard. The sound is much more refined and controlled over the Z2.

I have the eking diamond from the vietnamese maker, a mid centric analytic earbuds from vietnamese make (forgot his name) I paid roughly 40usd shipped for them. It sounds really good and imo a great alternative from the blur if you plan on using only zishan Z2 are similar lower end "hifi source" (whatever that means) because it really shine there and it's half the price. Minor point is that the cable is super stiff and light; very annoying when using while moving.
I did not notice a difference as dramatic as the graphenes when using the eking diamond with nuansaP1 FYI. (graphene sounds kind of harsh and thin on my zishan - more smooth and thick on nuansa)


----------



## seanc6441

10RV said:


> Hello folks, long time lurker, first time poster here.
> 
> Over time I accumulated handful of buds, to be exact VE moks+ (3 pairs , Yincrow x6, Seahf AWK-F32T, **** DIY EMX500 and finally the Graphene (the new 2017 i guess). I also own quite some over ears but this is not topic for those. I am powering all my gear thru Aune X1s (+smsl sap6 if power needed).
> 
> ...


You know normally I just suggest Rose Masya to anyone who says EMX500, because Masya has a similar presentation of soundstage but with much improved mid range and vocals and equal extension on both ends. Just in a higher resolution and much cleaerer sound.

But I'm thinking maybe the Nicehck EBX could be a good choice for a more comfortable fit as the Masya has a very unorthodox design and takes quite a bit of tinkering to get it to fit well with foam and such.

Nicehck EBX costs €116 on aliexpress. It's the first premium product of diy seller Nicehck. Hungry Panda can tell you more possibly if you need to hear impressions. From what I've hard so far it is an all round excellent earbud with deep bass, energetic mids and clear high's. The build looks very solid too and it has a detachable cable.

Get it on the mobile app for a slight discount, here's the link https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...32839701923.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.pPAR72


----------



## HungryPanda

I like both the Masya (beautiful open sounding earbuds) and the NiceHCK EBX ( lively, toe tapping little powerhouse buds)


----------



## ricesteam

Life has been keeping me busy with a new baby so I am unable to dip into this hobby for a while. Some of my buds are collecting dust and they deserve a new home.

Thus, with sadness, I announce I am selling my favourite buds, the rare and elusive, Diomnes Lv 2. 

They are past burn-in phase but nothing beyond that.  Everything is in pristine condition. Check the For Sale forum for details or PM me.


----------



## razysm_7

HungryPanda said:


> I like both the Masya (beautiful open sounding earbuds) and the NiceHCK EBX ( lively, toe tapping little powerhouse buds)



what kind of music do you think good for EBX?


----------



## SweetEars

gazzington said:


> I have been using graphnes with my colorfly c3 all morning. Sounds very clear and spacious


i find their sound heavy and spacious but lacking detail...


----------



## HungryPanda

razysm_7 said:


> what kind of music do you think good for EBX?


I enjoy indie rock, post rock, edm, fusion and acoustic music on them, practically anything. They are that good


----------



## razysm_7

HungryPanda said:


> I enjoy indie rock, post rock, edm, fusion and acoustic music on them, practically anything. They are that good



Do you use donut foam or full foam or just naked?


----------



## HungryPanda

razysm_7 said:


> Do you use donut foam or full foam or just naked?


 I use the full foams that came with them


----------



## gazzington

SweetEars said:


> i find their sound heavy and spacious but lacking detail...


Must admit I prefer my emx500


----------



## Fabi

ricesteam said:


> Life has been keeping me busy with a new baby so I am unable to dip into this hobby for a while. Some of my buds are collecting dust and they deserve a new home.
> 
> Thus, with sadness, I announce I am selling my favourite buds, the rare and elusive, Diomnes Lv 2.
> 
> They are past burn-in phase but nothing beyond that.  Everything is in pristine condition. Check the For Sale forum for details or PM me.


Sad, the best earbuds under $200 I own, but very happy for you mate !


----------



## Rendster

Which one would likely be better? A midrange DAP/smartphone without a dedicated DAC coupled with a earbud around 150$ (like Shozy BK) or a high end DAP with dedicated DAC like LG v20/v30 coupled with a budget earbud below 20$(emx-500)?


----------



## vladstef

Rendster said:


> Which one would likely be better? A midrange DAP/smartphone without a dedicated DAC coupled with a earbud around 150$ (like Shozy BK) or a high end DAP with dedicated DAC like LG v20/v30 coupled with a budget earbud below 20$(emx-500)?



Depends a lot on how you generally spend on audio equipment, if you plan spending more in the relatively close future, a good dap or phone with good dac can be a better investment, especially now that budget earbuds are amazing.
I actually have exactly this combination, LG V20 and EMX500. V20 is an amazing phone (the only issue can be the size, it's quite huge) and it never failed to deliver amazing audio output. EMX500 on the other hand presents the greatest value ever in audio equipment imho (The difference between it and any good earbud <100$ is minimal as far as I can tell, Shozy BK is probably noticeably better but not anywhere near the price would suggest).

So far it's been very hard to jump to more expensive earbuds, mostly due to form factor limitations after all (I don't want to spend a lot of money on something that I might not be able to extract 100% out of). I could definitely see myself buying totl buds if their value becomes less important.


----------



## RyanM

Rendster said:


> Which one would likely be better? A midrange DAP/smartphone without a dedicated DAC coupled with a earbud around 150$ (like Shozy BK) or a high end DAP with dedicated DAC like LG v20/v30 coupled with a budget earbud below 20$(emx-500)?



Earphones first. Source second. Amp third. DAC fourth. I think most people would agree with that. Although, it's not really quite so simple because implementation is everything. There's people that believe that the Xduoo X10 sounds better than the Fiio X5 v.3 as an example, even though they share the same DAC. In fact the Fiio has one AK4490 for each channel. The other factor is that very few people have heard everything, save for a handful of reviewers. Even then, there's preferences to certain sound signatures - warm, analytical, etc. The AKM chips seem to be warm and musical according to most sources and that's not everyone's cup of tea. The point is, that you will need to decide what your preferences are and do some research when considering any hi-fi purchase.


----------



## PacoBdn (Dec 1, 2017)

10RV said:


> Hello folks, long time lurker, first time poster here.
> 
> Over time I accumulated handful of buds, to be exact VE moks+ (3 pairs , Yincrow x6, Seahf AWK-F32T, **** DIY EMX500 and finally the Graphene (the new 2017 i guess). I also own quite some over ears but this is not topic for those. I am powering all my gear thru Aune X1s (+smsl sap6 if power needed).
> 
> ...



First of all, I take the opportunity to comment that for everything you mention about the Graphene, they should be much worse than the old ones. Nor do I believe that the correct definition is old or new, since there is an important difference in its price and obviously it must be for something.

The more expensive Graphene, are much better than the EMX500, more controlled and fast bass, more present and acute voices much more transparent.

That said, with the budget you have, it might be better to buy different profiles instead of betting everything on a card. Without going any further, there are the EB200 that for me are already quite better than the EMX500. Much more balanced and transparent.

I'm waiting for the K's 500 to arrive, which they say are very good, if you want, as soon as they arrive, I'll tell you that they seem to me compared to the EMX500.

I've this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...32821104494.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.s2apIw

And this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...32813068420.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.s2apIw

And this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...32759573651.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.TpbAz4


----------



## vladstef

PacoBdn said:


> First of all, I take the opportunity to comment that for everything you mention about the Graphene, they should be much worse than the old ones. Nor do I believe that the correct definition is old or new, since there is an important difference in its price and obviously it must be for something.
> 
> The more expensive Graphene, are much better than the EMX500, more controlled and fast bass, more present and acute voices much more transparent.
> 
> ...



Graphenes are not exactly much better than EMX500, most people rate them on the same performance level with different tonality, some prefer one or the other by a small margin, price difference going in build quality mostly.
On the other hand, this is the first time that I've seen anyone put EB200 anywhere near EMX500 let alone above it in therms of performance here and in the earbud anonymous group. You probably have a strong preference for mid-range focused equipment.


----------



## PacoBdn

vladstef said:


> Graphenes are not exactly much better than EMX500, most people rate them on the same performance level with different tonality, some prefer one or the other by a small margin, price difference going in build quality mostly.
> On the other hand, this is the first time that I've seen anyone put EB200 anywhere near EMX500 let alone above it in therms of performance here and in the earbud anonymous group. You probably have a strong preference for mid-range focused equipment.



I disagree with you, many people in this forum recognize Graphene as much more refined than the EMX500. For me it is like comparing the Fidelio X2 with the Hifiman HE500. The profile is similar but the quality at all frequencies is much higher in Graphene.

Regarding the EB200 is as simple as removing the EMX500 and put the EB200.

Probably the problem is that each one finds the foams appropriate to the morphology of his ear. In my case with Graphene I use a complete one and a donut on top. With the EB200 I use 2 donuts to clear the grid. The sources also influence the final result. I use the mobile only with the EMX500.

Of course I understand and respect that other people have another perception.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 1, 2017)

Rendster said:


> Which one would likely be better? A midrange DAP/smartphone without a dedicated DAC coupled with a earbud around 150$ (like Shozy BK) or a high end DAP with dedicated DAC like LG v20/v30 coupled with a budget earbud below 20$(emx-500)?


Get the best source possible first within your price range. Pick something of good value to performance but not cheap/average performance if you get what I mean. Whether you choose a smartphone with good audio quality or a dap, concentrate on that first.

It’s a smarter longterm investment that’s upgradeable with better earbuds. If you buy a cheap source you’ll never get better than ‘decent’ sound quality no matter if you buy a shozy bk or a $5 monk.

I honestly think earbuds like the emx500/diy pk2 are like 85% of the way in comparison to a shozy bk or Rose Masya. I’m sure something like the moondrop liebsleid and Rose Mojito is about 10% better than the bk stardust overall...

A good source is the way to go in my opinion. You’ll benefit from it regardless of what earbuds you buy $5-500!

I guarantee you if you go out and buy a shozy bk like I did you’ll be looking to upgrade your source anyway because you’ll crave the hidden potential your missing from your average source! This is how I feel after buying some more premium earbuds and still using an iphone 6s. Now I’ve bought and am looking to upgrade my source for my earbuds.


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm lucky I got into earbuds after my headphone journey, that way I have a couple of good daps and several decent amps.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 1, 2017)

PacoBdn said:


> I disagree with you, many people in this forum recognize Graphene as much more refined than the EMX500. For me it is like comparing the Fidelio X2 with the Hifiman HE500. The profile is similar but the quality at all frequencies is much higher in Graphene.
> 
> Regarding the EB200 is as simple as removing the EMX500 and put the EB200.
> 
> ...


Graphene and emx500 are not in different SQ leagues imo. Merely the same league with each having its own strengths and weaknesses.

Some will prefer one or the other. But I don’t think one is even notably better than the other, maybe a slight improvement for some and not for others.

I prefer the graphene musicality but dislike it’s V shaped signature and the vocals are meh on some tracks.

Emx500 has also average vocals, more U shaped. Less musical but more atmospheric.

Both have good articulation in the high end, Emx has deeper bass and graphenes have a mid bass bump.

It’s user preferences more than a ‘better’ earbud imo.


----------



## gazzington

If I am listening to hip hop or edm then I generally prefer the emx500 but graphnes for most other genres other than metal which my seafs or tomohawks rule


----------



## B9Scrambler

The HE 150Pro is a great pick for those wanting a fuller, bassier sound out of their ear bud.

https://head-fi.org/showcase/he150-pro.22681/reviews​

  ​


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 1, 2017)

Rendster said:


> Which one would likely be better? A midrange DAP/smartphone without a dedicated DAC coupled with a earbud around 150$ (like Shozy BK) or a high end DAP with dedicated DAC like LG v20/v30 coupled with a budget earbud below 20$(emx-500)?



If it was me personally I’d choose the LG v20/30 and diy pk2.

I own a shozy bk and iphone 6s as a reference of the other way around (6s is good but not spectacular in drive, full body and soundstage) although I will say it’s very clean and there’s like absolutely no noise.

I’d take the v20/30 and pk2 knowing that down the line if I really enjoyed the sound I could upgrade to the shozy bk.

Whereas with my setup if I decide I want to upgrade I need to go out and buy a 600 smartphone, or 200-300 dac/amp or 150-300 dap.


----------



## 10RV

PacoBdn said:


> First of all, I take the opportunity to comment that for everything you mention about the Graphene, they should be much worse than the old ones. Nor do I believe that the correct definition is old or new, since there is an important difference in its price and obviously it must be for something.
> 
> The more expensive Graphene, are much better than the EMX500, more controlled and fast bass, more present and acute voices much more transparent.
> 
> ...



I must say i do not "hate" the Graphenes, i love their width and separation and crisp details, i just "do not love" that they lack in body, I miss the low end and that thing that makes you toe tap which i find in my emx500.

I come from modded t20's and 1060's and have been spoiled with hd650's vocals so all this newfound earbud obsession is kinda new to me, but finding the perfect sound signature is a lot cheaper  not mentioning most buds arent that amp hungry. good dac is always a must.


----------



## taslavar

B9Scrambler said:


> The HE 150Pro is a great pick for those wanting a fuller, bassier sound out of their ear bud.
> 
> https://head-fi.org/showcase/he150-pro.22681/reviews​
> ​


That looks identical to the TY F32MT that Penon sells.


----------



## B9Scrambler

taslavar said:


> That looks identical to the TY F32MT that Penon sells.



Same shell, different driver. The F300M uses this shell too;


----------



## jogawag

Here, I strongly recommend RY4S with braided cable ($ 9) as budget Earbuds.
It sounds like strengthened the middle bass of the EMX 500. Of course, you can hear clearly the treble too.
It feels such as high performance version of EMX 500.

https://aliexpress.com/item/RY4S-or...e-MX500-style-earphone-3-5mm/32820438211.html


----------



## 10RV (Dec 1, 2017)

These


jogawag said:


> Here, I strongly recommend RY4S with braided cable ($ 9) as budget Earbuds.
> It sounds like strengthened the middle bass of the EMX 500. Of course, you can hear clearly the treble too.
> It feels such as high performance version of EMX 500.
> 
> https://aliexpress.com/item/RY4S-or...e-MX500-style-earphone-3-5mm/32820438211.html



These really sound promising and good considering the reviews. Guess ill never move up from "budget" category. To be honest, due to the driver size and tight space, is it even possible to produce anything THAT superior?


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 1, 2017)

10RV said:


> These
> 
> 
> These really sound promising and good considering the reviews. Guess ill never move up from "budget" category. To be honest, due to the driver size and tight space, is it even possible to produce anything THAT superior?


Haha that’s what you think... I give it a month or two before you’re telling us about your new hifi earbud 

And no subjectively it’s not THAT superior but the 15% difference is worth it if you love music and what to experience something more. Buy what you can afford though. You’re enjoyment will still be great with these newer budget earbuds as they still capture most of the music and even some of the magic.

I think if your after perfect sound you need premium earbuds, but if you enjoy the act of buying and trying new earbuds and want a big collection then budget earbuds are awesome for that!


----------



## jogawag (Dec 1, 2017)

10RV said:


> These
> 
> 
> These really sound promising and good considering the reviews. Guess ill never move up from "budget" category. To be honest, due to the driver size and tight space, is it even possible to produce anything THAT superior?



This RY4S's housing size is the same as EMX500. So the size is bigger than shozy bk. Is there any space problem?


----------



## Saoshyant

@Rendster To answer that question, it depends what you plan on doing with this hobby and what your priorities are.  The benefit of spending more on the dap instead of the earbud is most felt if you plan on buying more than just one earbud as it would be an upgrade for all future purchases.  There's also diminishing returns in respect to earphones and really all gear, so a simplified argument would be that a $30 earbud might get you 80% of what a $150 earbud can do.  If you are planning on getting one earbud and leaving it at that, I personally would spend the greater amount on the earbud than the dap after doing a lot of research, because a TOTL earbud can still sound phenomenal out of a normal phone.

For example, I love the sound of my CampFred which is at least on par with BK out of my LG G6 (not the quad dac version which annoys me that it's not readily available in the US).  Yes, it sounds better out of my Shanling M1, not to mention Opus #1, Chord Mojo or iDSD Black label.  However, I have zero qualms using it on any source I own.

Really, there is no simple answer on which is better like some might have you believe, but it's only really answered on what you value most.  All we can do is advise you based off our own priorities.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 1, 2017)

Saoshyant said:


> @Rendster To answer that question, it depends what you plan on doing with this hobby and what your priorities are.  The benefit of spending more on the dap instead of the earbud is most felt if you plan on buying more than just one earbud as it would be an upgrade for all future purchases.  There's also diminishing returns in respect to earphones and really all gear, so a simplified argument would be that a $30 earbud might get you 80% of what a $150 earbud can do.  If you are planning on getting one earbud and leaving it at that, I personally would spend the greater amount on the earbud than the dap after doing a lot of research, because a TOTL earbud can still sound phenomenal out of a normal phone.
> 
> For example, I love the sound of my CampFred which is at least on par with BK out of my LG G6 (not the quad dac version which annoys me that it's not readily available in the US).  Yes, it sounds better out of my Shanling M1, not to mention Opus #1, Chord Mojo or iDSD Black label.  However, I have zero qualms using it on any source I own.
> 
> Really, there is no simple answer on which is better like some might have you believe, but it's only really answered on what you value most.  All we can do is advise you based off our own priorities.



You’re right if he plans on making one big purchase for the long term. The better earbud makes sense.

However if he plans on making one big purchase now as a gateway into potential further purchases maybe 3-6 months down the line, I’d have to go with the premium source and budget earphone.

And we also have to consider that the OP may not know his sound preferences yet. So getting a premium earbud may be a little risky when not testing the waters with budget offerings first. Sources also have sound signatures of course but it’s not nearly as defined and can be adjusted per earbud used.

Poor guy has heard 3-4 conflicting views and still has no idea which to go for hehe.

All that matters is that both choices will result in better sound and he will be hooked like us most likely xD


----------



## Saoshyant

seanc6441 said:


> You’re right if he plans on making one big purchase for the long term. The better earbud makes sense.
> 
> However if he plans on making one big purchase now as a gateway into potential further purchases maybe 3-6 months down the line, I’d have to go with the premium source and budget earphone.
> 
> ...



There's option number 3:  spend maybe half on a dap, and half on several budget earbuds with differing sounds in order to gain experience and cover a wider range of genres.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 1, 2017)

Saoshyant said:


> There's option number 3:  spend maybe half on a dap, and half on several budget earbuds with differing sounds in order to gain experience and cover a wider range of genres.


I like your idea but I'd just go for the high audio quality phone instead. If your considering a new phone and also want a good music player it makes sense to buy both in the same unit. I think the LG V20 can be got for like $350-400 if you really go looking which is a little above mid range DAP but it's worth the little bit extra as a phone rather than spending 300 on a phone and 150-200 on a dap separately IMO

LG V20 + DIY Pk2(s) + EMX500  I would go for myself if starting from scratch and not knowing my preferred sound signature.

Obviously if I knew exactly what I wanted I'd get both the v20 and shozy bk/rose masya and call it a day lol


----------



## Tim Le

Hi folks, there is a "TOTL IEM shootout" list here on head-fi. I was wondering if there's a similar resource for earbuds floating around somewhere.

My CampFred2 have been delayed for two days now (I'm guessing USPS is falling behind due to high holiday volume), and I've been reading around. However, because earbuds aren't as popular, there just aren't very many comparative reviews. I'm looking to add one or two more IEMs in the $100-$200 range, do you guys have any recommendations?

So far I'm considering the Shozy BK (mid master) and Rose Masya (better all-rounder, although polarizing), but I'd love to hear some of your guy's favorites  I'm guessing the NiceHCK EBX sounds great too (due to how much people like the lower offerings), but I can't find any reviews here on head-fi.

As always, thanks for all the help


----------



## Saoshyant

Give us some info on the type of sound you prefer, genre of music, etc and we'll suggest what we can.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 1, 2017)

Tim Le said:


> Hi folks, there is a "TOTL IEM shootout" list here on head-fi. I was wondering if there's a similar resource for earbuds floating around somewhere.
> 
> My CampFred2 have been delayed for two days now (I'm guessing USPS is falling behind due to high holiday volume), and I've been reading around. However, because earbuds aren't as popular, there just aren't very many comparative reviews. I'm looking to add one or two more IEMs in the $100-$200 range, do you guys have any recommendations?
> 
> ...


The shozy bk isn't just a mid master, it's excellent all round and better resolution than the Rose Masya. But you lose out on the big soudstage.

If you want natural perfect mids with lush thick textured vocals, all round great balanced throughout the warm analog lows mids and high's sound and an intimate soundstage with great imaging get the shozy bk.

If you want a big soundstage with good imaging, clear vocals and also all round greatness in lows mids and high's and just a slightly more neutral bass response get the Rose Masya.

I'd class both as neutral-warm. But the masya vocals are more thin and clear and the bk thick and textured. Both really nice vocals on the right source, and both all round excellent balanced sound


----------



## Tim Le (Dec 1, 2017)

Thanks, so it looks like the shozy will definitely be picked up.

How does thr campfred2 compare to the Shozy BK?

I guess at this point, I'm looking for one more IEM to complement the shozy bk and Campfred2.

I've also ordered the new NiceHCK graphene as my cheapo to leave in my bag.


----------



## HungryPanda

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/rose-masya.22316/

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-ebx.22771/


----------



## SweetEars (Dec 1, 2017)

After testing for 2 days  with the EMX500 and the the new graphenes (10hz-22000hz), the graphenes seem to be tuned for a big sound with emphasis on the soundstage, very much like the monks plus, but of course they are better than the monks in every way  and they likely seem to perform better with audiophile sources and more expensive hardware or dedicated amps.
the emx500 is suited for a wide variety of  common sources ( youtube, brrip movies and mp3) probably because of their texture or colored sound

i will describe the new graphenes as trying to reproduce the source sound in a big way but as close to the natural source as possible


----------



## jogawag (Dec 1, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> After testing for 2 days  with the EMX500 and the the new graphenes (10hz-22000hz), the graphenes seem to be tuned for a big sound with emphasis on the soundstage, very much like the monks plus, but of course they are better than the monks in every way  and they likely seem to perform better with audiophile sources and more expensive hardware or dedicated amps.
> the emx500 is suited for a wide variety of  common sources ( youtube, brrip movies and mp3) probably because of their texture or colored sound
> 
> i will describe the new graphenes as trying to reproduce the source sound in a big way but as close to the natural source as possible



After all, was the problem the shortage of burning in?


----------



## Rendster

Saoshyant said:


> @Rendster To answer that question, it depends what you plan on doing with this hobby and what your priorities are.  The benefit of spending more on the dap instead of the earbud is most felt if you plan on buying more than just one earbud as it would be an upgrade for all future purchases.  There's also diminishing returns in respect to earphones and really all gear, so a simplified argument would be that a $30 earbud might get you 80% of what a $150 earbud can do.  If you are planning on getting one earbud and leaving it at that, I personally would spend the greater amount on the earbud than the dap after doing a lot of research, because a TOTL earbud can still sound phenomenal out of a normal phone.
> 
> For example, I love the sound of my CampFred which is at least on par with BK out of my LG G6 (not the quad dac version which annoys me that it's not readily available in the US).  Yes, it sounds better out of my Shanling M1, not to mention Opus #1, Chord Mojo or iDSD Black label.  However, I have zero qualms using it on any source I own.
> 
> Really, there is no simple answer on which is better like some might have you believe, but it's only really answered on what you value most.  All we can do is advise you based off our own priorities.




Thanks for the input! Everything is quite clear to me now. Have to set my priorities first before choosing. Everyone, have a nice day ahead! Well, maybe night? (different timezone)


----------



## SweetEars

jogawag said:


> After all, was the problem the shortage of burning in?


not sure at this point  probably  u are right... these things need burn in , maybe excess of 100 hours before they will show their true state


----------



## chaiyuta

@Rendster : In earbuds, you still have to concern of fitting issues which is individual case by case. Some said it is perfect fit for their ears, it might poor fit on your ears. Moreover for the people who have apparently asymmetric ear-shape or heavily small ear shape, they have no choice but go to IEM instead. Second, if you like to play on TOTL earbuds with High Ohm impedance. Please consider middle-to-high end 2.5 or 4.4 mm. balanced DAPs first. Even Hifi Phone can't play well with 600-650 Ohm earbuds. Again TOTL earbuds have both low and high impedance. If you don't wanna get balanced DAPs, there still are low ohm TOTL earbuds choice for you. Anyhow, do prioritise based on your life-style and budgets first.


----------



## waynes world

jogawag said:


> Here, I strongly recommend RY4S with braided cable ($ 9) as budget Earbuds.
> It sounds like strengthened the middle bass of the EMX 500. Of course, you can hear clearly the treble too.
> It feels such as high performance version of EMX 500.
> 
> https://aliexpress.com/item/RY4S-or...e-MX500-style-earphone-3-5mm/32820438211.html



A high performance EMX500 for 9/10th of the price! Sign me up!


----------



## chellity (Dec 1, 2017)

Wow, the mini hype train surrounding the kineras is REAL!  I finally received my kinera earbuds, #29...I was worried about some bass anemia, but my god what a composed and balanced sound.  The slight tinge of brightness plays perfectly with a warm source like a cayin n3, leaving me very happy with a nice detailed sound with great tonality for the price, with a huge soundstage I didnt think yuin shells could produce. 

I was enjoying my emxs-500 straight from my iphone as well!  Great bass and imaging for a spotify iphone, these will be my iphone buds for sure.  They also sound balanced and slightly bassier than kineras, but the kineras seem to be a little cut above as an entire package, considering theyre near twice the price.  I'll need more time to burn and and discern differences, but i'm very happy thus far


----------



## SweetEars

waynes world said:


> A high performance EMX500 for 9/10th of the price! Sign me up!


i did a comparison between the 2 many pages back..


----------



## jogawag

waynes world said:


> A high performance EMX500 for 9/10th of the price! Sign me up!



Braid RY4S sounds like EMX500 + Vido.


----------



## euge

@chellity they need to make more so I can get another pair as backup!


----------



## SweetEars

jogawag said:


> Braid RY4S sounds like EMX500 + Vido.


the background sound is more in emx500...mid bass is more in RY4S


----------



## chellity

euge said:


> @chellity they need to make more so I can get another pair as backup!



Definitely! In my book, they've already proven they can make a worthy earbud with this build quality, beautiful green shell, and composed sound.  Hopefully they're already planning on moving these to production considering they sold out fairly quickly.  I'd be interested in seeing what they could do with a mx500 shell as well, considering the soundstage/tuning they pulled out of the smaller yuin..


----------



## SweetEars

again my thoughts on the new graphenes, theough i like their big sound and spacious soundstage, i fidn them unsuitable for music listening especially if the music is processed music. they may do well for movies or concerts


----------



## acap13

SweetEars said:


> again my thoughts on the new graphenes, theough i like their big sound and spacious soundstage, i fidn them unsuitable for music listening especially if the music is processed music. they may do well for movies or concerts



It may also mean it needs the real intruments type of music such as classic, jazz and strings to name a few. I agreed about the processed music though.


----------



## SweetEars

how do i write a review on headfi?


----------



## SweetEars

acap13 said:


> It may also mean it needs the real intruments type of music such as classic, jazz and strings to name a few. I agreed about the processed music though.



probably, their lack of ample sub bass and vibrant mids mean they cant do processed electronic music well . nto to say they are bad, but i feel they are made for a different type of listener. the type that wants that wow effect, not an audiophile.


----------



## Danneq

Tim Le said:


> Thanks, so it looks like the shozy will definitely be picked up.
> 
> How does thr campfred2 compare to the Shozy BK?
> 
> ...



Basically: 

Shozy BK - more intimate soundstage and more sparkly highs
CampFred 2 - deeper soundstage that gives the listener a better feel of instrument placement and separation. Deeper and more hard hitting bass (well, at least for an earbud).

I find that they complement each other quite well.


----------



## Danneq (Dec 2, 2017)

ricesteam said:


> Life has been keeping me busy with a new baby so I am unable to dip into this hobby for a while. Some of my buds are collecting dust and they deserve a new home.
> 
> Thus, with sadness, I announce I am selling my favourite buds, the rare and elusive, Diomnes Lv 2.
> 
> They are past burn-in phase but nothing beyond that.  Everything is in pristine condition. Check the For Sale forum for details or PM me.



Congrats on the new baby!

I do think you should keep the earbuds you like that are so rare like Diomnes Lv2! I'm busy with a 3 month old baby and a 3 year old kid but I intend on keeping the collection I have now. At least the TOTL buds. I don't have much time to use the earbuds at home but use them at work and when I go to and from work.

I did bring the $600+ Red Dragon to work using a box for a pair of my clip on earphones. But even if the box is big it was a bit tight for the Red Dragon because of the thick and stiff cable, so I became worried about the earbuds becoming damaged during transport. So now I keep them at home where I pretty much never have time to use them. But I intend to use them as soon as I've got time.

Now  I actually sort of feel like I do not need anything new. I'm even starting to forget about Moondrop Liebesleid.

Well, the buyer of your Diomnes earbuds should know that he or she is getting a really great pair of earbuds that are well worth the money.


----------



## Danneq

Regarding good buds for classical music, I personally found the bright sound signature of Rose Mojito to lead to a sort of unnatural tone in instruments. I have to hype the Yincrow RW-777 a bit here again, mainly since they do not get much attention. With a wide and deep soundstage and a neutral sound signature they might work well with classical music.


----------



## acap13

SweetEars said:


> probably, their lack of ample sub bass and vibrant mids mean they cant do processed electronic music well . nto to say they are bad, but i feel they are made for a different type of listener. the type that wants that wow effect, not an audiophile.



I respect your opinion. By the way, do you mind telling your favourite setup such as daps or dac/amp, mate?


----------



## j4100

I received my **** PT15, but damn! those MMCX connectors are TIGHT. I'm afraid I'm going to break something. They are just snap-on snap-off, aren't they?


----------



## chinmie

Danneq said:


> Now  I actually sort of feel like I do not need anything new. I'm even starting to forget about Moondrop Liebesleid.



good for you. for me, after the Liebesleid, i'm quite satisfied and loose a lot of steam for purchasing or trying a new one, well, at least for now. although i still enjoy reading this thread to see if there's a new earbuds that interest me again. 
Nowadays i settled for this set:
-Svara L with bluetooth cable as my daily driver when i need to move around a lot
-Willsound MK2 for daily wired backup if the Svara's out of battery
-Liebesleid when i can sit/lay down and really enjoy listening to music 

i might slim down my rarely used buds in the future, because I'm not really a collector.. although the Red Demun will likely stay with me forever.. it just have that special thing, i don't use it quite often, but i can't seem to find a reason to let it go.



Danneq said:


> I have to hype the Yincrow RW-777 a bit here again, mainly since they do not get much attention. With a wide and deep soundstage and a neutral sound signature they might work well with classical music.


 now this earbud isn't talk a lot..does the bass extend deep or rolled off? does the treble grainy sounding?


----------



## Tim Le

j4100 said:


> I received my **** PT15, but damn! those MMCX connectors are TIGHT. I'm afraid I'm going to break something. They are just snap-on snap-off, aren't they?



The first time is always the hardest! 

 I find it helps to take your nail and kind of pry while pulling in a straight motion.


----------



## j4100

Tim Le said:


> The first time is always the hardest!
> 
> I find it helps to take your nail and kind of pry while pulling in a straight motion.



lol - I'm trying to get it on 

Must have been the earpiece, since the red one clicked on without too much trouble. Might not be getting the cable back off the blue one though 

Anyway, job done now, thanks. Time for some burning.


----------



## SweetEars

acap13 said:


> I respect your opinion. By the way, do you mind telling your favourite setup such as daps or dac/amp, mate?


not into DAcs and AMps, using common equipment like iphone and laptop


----------



## acap13

SweetEars said:


> not into DAcs and AMps, using common equipment like iphone and laptop



OIC, I guess theres something to do with that as well. I often find the likes of Graphene does poorly on my phone and laptop as well. It just very sensitive towards what you feeds it with. Not meaning to be bad. Just, I found it tends to be quite brittle on treble region and lacks the body when being driven from phone and more worse, laptop (MSI CX-61). The same finding as yours. Synergy can be one of the biggest factor too. I think, best to find more fun sounding signature akin to Vido or EMX500-ish sounding if you are going to stick with phone or laptop. Totally will balances out the synergy and to a certain extent, avoid treble harshness problem in my opinion. Really looking forward to your finding if you are going to pick up or demo some dedicated player or dac/amp with your earbuds soon. YMMV


----------



## ricesteam

Thanks! I did put a lot of thought of keeping the Diomnes Lv2. A few months of thinking, actually. In the end, raising a child is expensive lol. 



Danneq said:


> Congrats on the new baby!
> 
> I do think you should keep the earbuds you like that are so rare like Diomnes Lv2! I'm busy with a 3 month old baby and a 3 year old kid but I intend on keeping the collection I have now. At least the TOTL buds. I don't have much time to use the earbuds at home but use them at work and when I go to and from work.
> 
> ...


----------



## SweetEars (Dec 2, 2017)

acap13 said:


> OIC, I guess theres something to do with that as well. I often find the likes of Graphene does poorly on my phone and laptop as well. It just very sensitive towards what you feeds it with. Not meaning to be bad. Just, I found it tends to be quite brittle on treble region and lacks the body when being driven from phone and more worse, laptop (MSI CX-61). The same finding as yours. Synergy can be one of the biggest factor too. I think, best to find more fun sounding signature akin to Vido or EMX500-ish sounding if you are going to stick with phone or laptop. Totally will balances out the synergy and to a certain extent, avoid treble harshness problem in my opinion. Really looking forward to your finding if you are going to pick up or demo some dedicated player or dac/amp with your earbuds soon. YMMV



well i did play sound audiophile grade music ( youtube) and yes they sounded better than others  on the new graphenes, so yr observation may be valid...well my verdict is still not yet out on them.. earlier i noted that they do sound different from the first day most of the hollowness is gone .. they might be burning in as we speak... I can only fully conclude after 50 hours


----------



## DeadeyeM

Recently i bought RHA T20 but i find them to bright and lack of deep bass compared to my SoundMagic E10. On what i think RHA is really good is with SoundStage, Clarity, Detail. 
I was testing them on my OPO 5T + Viper4Android (Viper-DDC - V4ARISE.vdc, Spectrum Extension - 1.0, Convolver - Paul-Sterio.irs), but i also had V30 i still found them to bright and missing that deep bass that E10 has.

Can any one recommend me a different pair?


----------



## j4100

DeadeyeM said:


> Recently i bought RHA T20 but i find them to bright and lack of deep bass compared to my SoundMagic E10. On what i think RHA is really good is with SoundStage, Clarity, Detail.
> I was testing them on my OPO 5T + Viper4Android (Viper-DDC - V4ARISE.vdc, Spectrum Extension - 1.0, Convolver - Paul-Sterio.irs), but i also had V30 i still found them to bright and missing that deep bass that E10 has.
> 
> Can any one recommend me a different pair?



This is the earbud thread, there are no IEMs in here 

Is it an earbud you are looking for?


----------



## acap13

SweetEars said:


> well i did play sound audiophile grade music ( youtube) and yes they sounded better than others  on the new graphenes, so yr observation may be valid...well my verdict is still not yet out on them.. earlier i noted that they do sound different from the first day most of the hollowness is gone .. they might be burning in as we speak... I can only fully conclude after 50 hours




Burning in could do some magic and tricky sometimes. Hopefully it will be favoured in your case soon. One thing, I'm not sure everyone will agree or not but anything coming out of youtube is highly compressed. Even HD recording is suffering from it. Have you tried Tidal instead or any other high definition streaming services? At least, they are not as compressed as one in youtube IMO. Hopefully, you could give it a try soon and let us know here.


----------



## DeadeyeM

j4100 said:


> This is the earbud thread, there are no IEMs in here
> 
> Is it an earbud you are looking for?


Ups  sorry, i'm not sure to be honest what is difference between IEM? are they more powerfull?


----------



## SweetEars

DeadeyeM said:


> Ups  sorry, i'm not sure to be honest what is difference between IEM? are they more powerfull?


No...IEMs create this effect of having powerful bass by going deep into yr ears.


----------



## DeadeyeM

SweetEars said:


> No...IEMs create this effect of having powerful bass by going deep into yr ears.



Right then i need this thread  any suggestions where i can it?


----------



## SweetEars

acap13 said:


> Burning in could do some magic and tricky sometimes. Hopefully it will be favoured in your case soon. One thing, I'm not sure everyone will agree or not but anything coming out of youtube is highly compressed. Even HD recording is suffering from it. Have you tried Tidal instead or any other high definition streaming services? At least, they are not as compressed as one in youtube IMO. Hopefully, you could give it a try soon and let us know here.


i tried some standalone downloaded  dolby demos on the net.. especially the leaf demo.. the  graphene sound comes off as raw, big, and one whole sound.. 

btw i notice that some of the mid bass seems to come out a bit ..just a tiny bit..


----------



## SweetEars

DeadeyeM said:


> Right then i need this thread  any suggestions where i can it?


a standalone thread is out there.. search for it


----------



## seanc6441

DeadeyeM said:


> Right then i need this thread  any suggestions where i can it?


IEM’s are the in ear variants. With the silicone tips. Earbuds are the classic vented design which you usually cover with a foam cover.

IEM’s are like the closed back headphones of the earphone world, earbuds are more like open back.


----------



## Danneq (Dec 2, 2017)

Earbud to the left and IEM to the right (I "borrowed" the photo online):







(Edit: found a better photo online)


----------



## acap13 (Dec 2, 2017)

It has been awhile since the last time I listened to my Clear Graphene( not the latest one ).. I remember I do really like it with Monk+ thin foam before. Switched the foam to stock( thicker than Monk+ ) for almost 1 month and a half, I felt confused with the sound as it didnt sound as good as I would remember them previously. They sounded cloudy yellowish background as compared to blacker background, hardly transparent, details are glossed over and smoothed out a bit too much and depth is average at best. Now, I put the Monk+ foam back on, everything turn back to normal and this is the Graphene that I used to love before. Btw, I use chord mojo which is relatively smooth and a bit warm. I recommend Graphene with Monk+ foam personally especially if you have smooth and warm source or player/amp. Do anyone experience the same? Please let me know. Would like to hear out other opinions


----------



## fairx

These sudden mention if RY4s made me wanna try one. Does it really balance out the mid bass compared to emx500? I really like the sound of it with slight mid bass and 4k raised eq.


----------



## seanc6441

acap13 said:


> It has been awhile since the last time I listened to my Clear Graphene( not the latest one ).. I remember I do really like it with Monk+ thin foam before. Switched the foam to stock( thicker than Monk+ ) for almost 1 month and a half, I felt confused with the sound as it didnt sound as good as I would remember them previously. They sounded cloudy yellowish background as compared to blacker background, hardly transparent, details are glossed over and smoothed out a bit too much and depth is average at best. Now, I put the Monk+ foam back on, everything turn back to normal and this is the Graphene that I used to love before. Btw, I use chord mojo which is relatively smooth and a bit warm. I recommend Graphene with Monk+ foam personally especially if you have smooth and warm source or player/amp. Do anyone experience the same? Please let me know. Would like to hear out other opinions


I pretty much only use combinations of monk foams (monk thin or new monk semi thin) because the detail is just that much better.

So yeah I do experience it too


----------



## acap13 (Dec 2, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> I pretty much only use combinations of monk foams (monk thin or new monk semi thin) because the detail is just that much better.
> 
> So yeah I do experience it too



Thanks for the response. I'm actually quite surprised that it does not just affect the details, but pretty much overall performance is quite subdued and compromised.

Additional note: I was comparing Graphene and K's 500 today. So, the K's500 totally taken the lead by quite far compared to the stock foam'd Graphene. I thought Graphene was just losing the 'mojo' standing up against something like the K's500. Thus, forced me to fast switching to the Monk thin foam and I felt relieved.


----------



## waynes world (Dec 2, 2017)

acap13 said:


> It has been awhile since the last time I listened to my Clear Graphene( not the latest one ).. I remember I do really like it with Monk+ thin foam before. Switched the foam to stock( thicker than Monk+ ) for almost 1 month and a half, I felt confused with the sound as it didnt sound as good as I would remember them previously. They sounded cloudy yellowish background as compared to blacker background, hardly transparent, details are glossed over and smoothed out a bit too much and depth is average at best. Now, I put the Monk+ foam back on, everything turn back to normal and this is the Graphene that I used to love before. Btw, I use chord mojo which is relatively smooth and a bit warm. I recommend Graphene with Monk+ foam personally especially if you have smooth and warm source or player/amp. Do anyone experience the same? Please let me know. Would like to hear out other opinions



I'll have to try other foams to hear what you're talking about. Edit: but yeah, the monk+ thin foams for the win on many buds.

I use the donut foams on the graphenes. Have you tried the donuts? If so, what do you think?


----------



## acap13

waynes world said:


> I'll have to try other foams to hear what you're talking about. Edit: but yeah, the monk+ thin foams for the win on many buds.
> 
> I use the donut foams on the graphenes. Have you tried the donuts? If so, what do you think?



I have tried the stock donut foam before but it was quite sometimes ago. So, basing on that memory alone, it fares a bit better than full stock foam. Love the mid bass impact with the untainted treble but it hurts the imaging quite a bit. I will try again later with donut foam. Btw, this is solely basing on my setup. It might work differently to other persons. IMHO


----------



## jogawag (Dec 2, 2017)

fairx said:


> These sudden mention if RY4s made me wanna try one. Does it really balance out the mid bass compared to emx500? I really like the sound of it with slight mid bass and 4k raised eq.


I think that it is suitable for EDM etc. and balanced.
Please try it.
However, there is no effect on music with little bass.(like folk music)


----------



## HungryPanda

I use donuts on my graphene earbuds


----------



## seanc6441

acap13 said:


> I have tried the stock donut foam before but it was quite sometimes ago. So, basing on that memory alone, it fares a bit better than full stock foam. Love the mid bass impact with the untainted treble but it hurts the imaging quite a bit. I will try again later with donut foam. Btw, this is solely basing on my setup. It might work differently to other persons. IMHO


Double monk thin donut is pretty much my combo on every earbud except the cygnus which actually sounds tonally better with monk thin normal foam.

Everything else benefits from donut monks with a second layer on the front but not on the back so it remains a good fit.


----------



## HungryPanda

I do have the silicone rings on a lot of my earbuds under the foams to help with fit


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> I do have the silicone rings on a lot of my earbuds under the foams to help with fit


I can’t use those the make the fit too large, mx500 shell size is large enough already.

PK2 shell is just perfect for moi. Maybe I have ears on the smaller size, not sure.


----------



## prone2phone

Been listening more to the new graphenes. The sound is so liquid, sweet and relatively smooth. Signature kind of broad u shape. Where emx500 has big bass and the mids start thinner and raise high to upper mids the mx760 has more linear transition from bass to mids so lower mids are more intimate and emotional but have slight nasality especially female voices. Overall beautiful sound. I especially like how they present all instruments that have metal parts in them. All those shimmers and crashes,  also sounds of breaking glass, strings of guitars and pianos. In some way reminds me of hifiman re0. Can't wait to listen to DSOTM on these , want to give more break in. I think 10 years ago they could sell for three hundred easily. Maybe this is a new toy thing , I don't know.  Also, I'm no expert on sound so take salt.


----------



## kurtextrem

seanc6441 said:


> I pretty much only use combinations of monk foams (monk thin or new monk semi thin) because the detail is just that much better.
> 
> So yeah I do experience it too


Wa wa wait what, what is monk semi thin?


----------



## seanc6441

kurtextrem said:


> Wa wa wait what, what is monk semi thin?


The newer monk thin foams I got this month are not as thin anymore. It's like half way between full foam and thin foam.


----------



## rkw

SweetEars said:


> well i did play sound audiophile grade music ( youtube) and yes they sounded better than others  on the new graphenes, so yr observation may be valid...well my verdict is still not yet out on them.. earlier i noted that they do sound different from the first day most of the hollowness is gone .. they might be burning in as we speak... I can only fully conclude after 50 hours


"audiophile grade music on YouTube" is an oxymoron. That recording is playing far from its full resolution, even for YouTube (it was uploaded at only 480p).


----------



## waynes world

prone2phone said:


> Been listening more to the new graphenes. The sound is so liquid, sweet and relatively smooth. Signature kind of broad u shape. Where emx500 has big bass and the mids start thinner and raise high to upper mids the mx760 has more linear transition from bass to mids so lower mids are more intimate and emotional but have slight nasality especially female voices. Overall beautiful sound. I especially like how they present all instruments that have metal parts in them. All those shimmers and crashes,  also sounds of breaking glass, strings of guitars and pianos. In some way reminds me of hifiman re0. Can't wait to listen to DSOTM on these , want to give more break in. I think 10 years ago they could sell for three hundred easily. Maybe this is a new toy thing , I don't know.  Also, I'm no expert on sound so take salt.



If it's a "new toy thing", then I'm still afflicted 3 months later!


----------



## seanc6441

rkw said:


> "audiophile grade music on YouTube" is an oxymoron. That recording is playing far from its full resolution, even for YouTube (it was uploaded at only 480p).


Not to mention youtube’s compression even at 1080p or higher. Although I think how the file is uploaded is a determining factor.

Something like spotify is more assuring in that sense, you get well converted/compressed 320kbps so there’s almost no loss from CD quality. Infact some will say there’s no human discernable difference at all to losseses and a well done 320 mp3 file.

With youtube it varies too much from video to video.


----------



## PacoBdn

I use a complete foam and one donut with the Graphene.


----------



## 10RV

I just realized i dont own any wireless earbuds, so i decided to (try to) make one while im looking for a new bud 

So, any suggestions on mmcx buds, warm sound, good soundstage and good detailed low end is what i ask for, nice vocals (mids) are also a plus.
Also, and this is more important, anyone has any experience with bluetooth mmcx cables (dongles?), and which one would you suggest to pair with mmcx buds.

I'm looking to spend around 150eur for both buds and cable.

Thanks guys!


----------



## Danneq

chinmie said:


> good for you. for me, after the Liebesleid, i'm quite satisfied and loose a lot of steam for purchasing or trying a new one, well, at least for now. although i still enjoy reading this thread to see if there's a new earbuds that interest me again.
> Nowadays i settled for this set:
> -Svara L with bluetooth cable as my daily driver when i need to move around a lot
> -Willsound MK2 for daily wired backup if the Svara's out of battery
> ...




I've read some opinions about Liebesleid stating that it is not too far from Shozy BK when it comes to sound signature. Then I figure I can settle with Shozy BK for that sort of  sound signature.

I could do with less earbuds, but it's difficult for me to get below 15 and impossible to get below 10!

About Yincrow RW-777, bass it more about quality than quantity. It is not bass light but can appear so compared to something like Svara (I suppose, from reading about how Svara sounds like). Treble is very clean sounding and appears to be extended without becoming bright like Rose earbuds can be like. There is something almost "vintage" about the sound. It reminds me of old TOTL Sony and Aiwa earbuds with a sort of "dry" sound.


----------



## tgh5000

Hey Guys!! What would be something that has the same sound signature as Monk Plus with more sub-bass but of the iem shape? I adore the Monk Plus sound. But looking for something smaller in size and preferably in iem shape. Thanks!!


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 2, 2017)

PacoB
[QUOTE="tgh5000 said:


> Hey Guys!! What would be something that has the same sound signature as Monk Plus with more sub-bass but of the iem shape? I adore the Monk Plus sound. But looking for something smaller in size and preferably in iem shape. Thanks!!


I have no idea if VE use the same signature in IEM’s as earbuds but you should consider the VE biggie and small IEM’s. They are brand new IEM releases from Venture Electronics and if you can order them from VEClan (you need to message the guy who created VE, Lee!) but you need to have made a previous order from him to get first service because they are in high demand and he wants to get a good repoire with his buyers on a friend to friends basis so he asks for a message to and from himself and the buyer.

Basically if you can get them the price is $40 each (biggie is high impendance, small is for mobile source) you can get a deal of $60 for both.




So far the opinion seems to be the small actually is preferred and you need quite a powerful source for the biggie.

Get the small if you wanna try out a new VE IEM.


----------



## HungryPanda

tgh5000 said:


> Hey Guys!! What would be something that has the same sound signature as Monk Plus with more sub-bass but of the iem shape? I adore the Monk Plus sound. But looking for something smaller in size and preferably in iem shape. Thanks!!


QKZ DM7, cheap and plenty of bass


----------



## groucho69

What do you think @HungryPanda ?


----------



## HungryPanda

groucho69 said:


> What do you think @HungryPanda ?


nice energetic tribute but no AC/DC who I listen to a lot


----------



## SweetEars (Dec 2, 2017)

prone2phone said:


> Been listening more to the new graphenes. The sound is so liquid, sweet and relatively smooth. Signature kind of broad u shape. Where emx500 has big bass and the mids start thinner and raise high to upper mids the mx760 has more linear transition from bass to mids so lower mids are more intimate and emotional but have slight nasality especially female voices. Overall beautiful sound. I especially like how they present all instruments that have metal parts in them. All those shimmers and crashes,  also sounds of breaking glass, strings of guitars and pianos. In some way reminds me of hifiman re0. Can't wait to listen to DSOTM on these , want to give more break in. I think 10 years ago they could sell for three hundred easily. Maybe this is a new toy thing , I don't know.  Also, I'm no expert on sound so take salt.



i remember that earphones used to sound good in the 1990s.  i agree with u the new graphenes resemble some of the 1990s old Sony earphones that came with discmans but with a broader soundstage and heavier sound
the new graphenes i will describe them as full glass oriented heavy  sound ( the type when u hear glass breaking, it has a tremedous impact with depth), or bubbly effect but raw.. the only problem they arent very detailed on nuances or articulation but come off as whole sound


----------



## waynes world

Danneq said:


> About Yincrow RW-777, bass it more about quality than quantity. It is not bass light but can appear so compared to something like Svara (I suppose, from reading about how Svara sounds like). Treble is very clean sounding and appears to be extended without becoming bright like Rose earbuds can be like. There is something almost "vintage" about the sound. It reminds me of old TOTL Sony and Aiwa earbuds with a sort of "dry" sound.



Mighty nice sounding description! "vintage"="very good sounding" to me (at least as far as headphones are concerned).

Just to be sure, are these the ones?

Not an exorbitant price either


----------



## chinmie (Dec 2, 2017)

10RV said:


> I just realized i dont own any wireless earbuds, so i decided to (try to) make one while im looking for a new bud
> 
> So, any suggestions on mmcx buds, warm sound, good soundstage and good detailed low end is what i ask for, nice vocals (mids) are also a plus.
> Also, and this is more important, anyone has any experience with bluetooth mmcx cables (dongles?), and which one would you suggest to pair with mmcx buds.
> ...



I'm using the Svara L (page soundstage and iem like bass)  with the nicehck bluetooth for daily use, and it is in fact my most used earbuds because of the convenience. you could exchange the svara with other mmcx earbuds that you prefer. I won't use it for sport though, I don't think it could stand up to be soaked in sweat... better to buy a dedicated sport Bluetooth ones for that





Danneq said:


> I've read some opinions about Liebesleid stating that it is not too far from Shozy BK when it comes to sound signature. Then I figure I can settle with Shozy BK for that sort of  sound signature.



the Liebesleid is different from Shozy BK to my ears.. it is closer to the Mojito, but with warmer and less piercing highs. the soundstage is also larger and instruments placements is better to my ears than the BK (BK is more closer/intimate) . BK has bigger and punchier bass, more attack on treble, while the Liebesleid has leaner bass and more resolving treble)



Danneq said:


> I could do with less earbuds, but it's difficult for me to get below 15 and impossible to get below 10!



my target is 5... or 10 if pushing it... although I'm currently at more than 15 earbuds and close to 30 if counting the IEMs and headphones.. failing badly at my goal



Danneq said:


> About Yincrow RW-777, bass it more about quality than quantity. It is not bass light but can appear so compared to something like Svara (I suppose, from reading about how Svara sounds like). Treble is very clean sounding and appears to be extended without becoming bright like Rose earbuds can be like. There is something almost "vintage" about the sound. It reminds me of old TOTL Sony and Aiwa earbuds with a sort of "dry" sound.



thanks for the description. i might check them out in the near future
edit: a fellow of mine said the yincrow is close sounding to the hifiman with more bass and warmer signature.. is it about right?


----------



## Tim Le

Does anyone have experience with Uairekko earbuds?

I've found one review, but I was wondering if the sound signature varies greatly from model to model.


----------



## SweetEars

the niceHCk EB200, anyone can compare it to the graphenes or EMX500?


----------



## Majin

Is it true that other sellers sell vido's for like €1,60?


----------



## cqtek

SweetEars said:


> the niceHCk EB200, anyone can compare it to the graphenes or EMX500?



IMHO EB200 better than EMX500, more realistic sound, less V shaped. EB200 has less bass but more natural and well defined with better texture. EB200 has mids with better clarity and bright, clean presentation. Low treble with more presence in EMX500. EMX500 has a wide, deep and open sound, maybe irrealistic but spectacular. EB200 more controlled and realistic soundstage and image. 
EMX500 has wow effect, EB200 has more pleasant listening.


----------



## SweetEars

1999 Master piece of AR Rahman, try this..


----------



## wskl

Majin said:


> Is it true that other sellers sell vido's for like €1,60?



Yes, here is one of the links
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Spo...-Flat-Head-Plug-HIFI-Headset/32830431361.html

Just be aware that some members received something that was not a Vido, I think they ran out of stock due to the heavy surge in orders and had to replace it with something else.


----------



## jogawag (Dec 3, 2017)

wskl said:


> Yes, here is one of the links
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Spo...-Flat-Head-Plug-HIFI-Headset/32830431361.html
> 
> Just be aware that some members received something that was not a Vido, I think they ran out of stock due to the heavy surge in orders and had to replace it with something else.


Vido price is lower in this site.
https://aliexpress.com/item//32828972947.html


----------



## prone2phone

I agree with that. On the other hand...


----------



## snip3r77

vladstef said:


> Fengru HYCK100 is actually really interesting, beautiful design aside, it has unique front cover as well as driver, 13.5mm double dynamic. If it's proportionately good compared to Fengru EMX500... oh well, we can dream.
> Meanwhile, eye candy:


Is there a full pic of the mode?


----------



## Tim Le

Hi guys, so I just received my CampFred 2, and I really think they sound incredible!

I first tried them with full foams, and I thought they sounded a bit warm. After I put donut foams, I thought they sounded a bit more clear. I think that they sound great right now, but I do wish they had a bit more clarity. Could you recommend any foams that will make them sound a bit more clear?

I tried them without foams, and they sounded way too bright. I guess what I'm looking for is a midpoint between half foams and no foams


----------



## seanc6441

Tim Le said:


> Hi guys, so I just received my CampFred 2, and I really think they sound incredible!
> 
> I first tried them with full foams, and I thought they sounded a bit warm. After I put donut foams, I thought they sounded a bit more clear. I think that they sound great right now, but I do wish they had a bit more clarity. Could you recommend any foams that will make them sound a bit more clear?
> 
> I tried them without foams, and they sounded way too bright. I guess what I'm looking for is a midpoint between half foams and no foams


Monk thin foams.

And if that’s still not clean/clear enough, try monk thins foams cut into a donut foam.


----------



## Orac

Tim Le said:


> CampFred 2


I've seen these mentioned with enthusiasm several times, but I can't find them for sale. Where are they sold? how much do they cost?


----------



## j4100

Orac said:


> I've seen these mentioned with enthusiasm several times, but I can't find them for sale. Where are they sold? how much do they cost?



https://www.cypherusaudio.com/earbuds


----------



## waynes world

j4100 said:


> https://www.cypherusaudio.com/earbuds



What/where are the prices?


----------



## j4100

You have to contact them. I guess FB is best. I'm guessing folks with their buds have probably mentioned the prices on here in the past?


----------



## PacoBdn

cqtek said:


> IMHO EB200 better than EMX500, more realistic sound, less V shaped. EB200 has less bass but more natural and well defined with better texture. EB200 has mids with better clarity and bright, clean presentation. Low treble with more presence in EMX500. EMX500 has a wide, deep and open sound, maybe irrealistic but spectacular. EB200 more controlled and realistic soundstage and image.
> EMX500 has wow effect, EB200 has more pleasant listening.



How good you express yourself, friend. I wanted to explain the same thing the other day but there was no way, someone thought I was deaf. Hahaha


----------



## smith

Just a quick heads up guys and girls that I have up for sale (in the for sale forum )my Shozy Cygnus Limited Edition earbuds....


----------



## prone2phone

Last time I checked my eb200 they had too thin mids for my taste. But I have to admit they sounded good with quality studio recordings.

And I forgot one important thing about 10/22k graphenes... Bass quantity is comparable to Vido only hits harder. Have to go.


----------



## rkw

Tim Le said:


> Does anyone have experience with Uairekko earbuds?
> 
> I've found one review, but I was wondering if the sound signature varies greatly from model to model.


Aren't they all custom made to order? You would request both the artwork and tuning when you place your order.


----------



## seanc6441

smith said:


> Just a quick heads up guys and girls that I have up for sale (in the for sale forum )my Shozy Cygnus Limited Edition earbuds....


Limited edition? So it’s not the regular Shozy Cygnus? Cannot be for that price lol


----------



## 10RV

Just wanted to state that having a beard and using emx500 with their cable is absoulte nightmare of microphonics, not even considering a slighthest movement produces terrible cracking noises due to cable rattling a bit inside shells.
Such a shame considering they truly are great buds, do you guys know any emx500s with a regular plain old sturdy cable? (red Yincrow x6 comes to mind, they have really good cable)


----------



## smith

seanc6441 said:


> Limited edition? So it’s not the regular Shozy Cygnus? Cannot be for that price lol



They are only available in China ...but there sound is on a par with the BK model but with added  fun . ClieOS posted some impression here a while back


----------



## seanc6441

10RV said:


> Just wanted to state that having a beard and using emx500 with their cable is absoulte nightmare of microphonics, not even considering a slighthest movement produces terrible cracking noises due to cable rattling a bit inside shells.
> Such a shame considering they truly are great buds, do you guys know any emx500s with a regular plain old sturdy cable? (red Yincrow x6 comes to mind, they have really good cable)



Can confirm lol


The cable is pretty rubbish either way, I’ve called it nasty on more than one occasion.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 3, 2017)

smith said:


> They are only available in China ...but there sound is on a par with the BK model but with added  fun . ClieOS posted some impression here a while back



Ignore all this underlined text, I was wrong there is two versions!

Hate to break it to you but most of the earbuds we buy here are only available in china hence we use aliexpress to obtain them.

The Cygnus goes for £66 new. I got mine second hand for much less, but that’s besides the point.

As an owner of both I do love both, but only at their respective price points of £66 and £123 for the Cygnus and BK approximately. I think you’re vastly overestimating the value.

But hey, as long as people know what they are paying for, the one and only shozy cygnus it’s all good.

Good luck with sale!

EDIT: It appears you are suggesting these are not the normal cygnus, sorry if this is true as I’ve never heard of a second versiom.

Maybe the price is justified for that version and it’s pretty interesting to know if this is indeed a more high end cygnus.

I’ll have to google this earbud now!.. Well google didn’t show anything but you are right as Clioes does mention a cygnus LE version... that’s very cool, sorry to question it lol!


----------



## smith (Dec 3, 2017)

That's ok @seanc6441 if you do a search on facebook you will see some more info on them.

But basically the main difference is the cable which is now solid silver which takes the sound away from being all about the mids from the standard model to a more open sound like the bk but less neutral and more energetic whilst still retaining the reference like sound of the bk.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 3, 2017)

Apparently this cygnus LE is comparable to Shozy BK but with a more fun sound sig (possibly with the cygnus mid bass bump) and also has a pure silver cable...

If I had the money  I absolutely love the shozy earbuds so I’m very jealous with my standard cygnus and bk hehe

@smith there definitely needs to be exposure to this earbud, it’s not easy to find info but when clieos says it is good that’s a positive 

Really good luck for the sale I know I want it and i’m sure many others would too!


----------



## Danneq

waynes world said:


> Mighty nice sounding description! "vintage"="very good sounding" to me (at least as far as headphones are concerned).
> 
> Just to be sure, are these the ones?
> 
> Not an exorbitant price either



Yep. Really nice but those looking for earbuds specialized in rock or metal might skip these. The clarity and size of the soundstage is really great for the price.


----------



## Danneq

chinmie said:


> the Liebesleid is different from Shozy BK to my ears.. it is closer to the Mojito, but with warmer and less piercing highs. the soundstage is also larger and instruments placements is better to my ears than the BK (BK is more closer/intimate) . BK has bigger and punchier bass, more attack on treble, while the Liebesleid has leaner bass and more resolving treble)
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Your description of Liebesleid reminds me of a less bassy Diomnes Lv2...

I don't really remember Hifiman Es10 exactly. Just that it was neutral sounding but a bit bland. The clarity and soundstage of RW-777 makes me want to keep it while I sold my pair of Hifiman...


----------



## mbwilson111

cqtek said:


> IMHO EB200 better than EMX500, more realistic sound, less V shaped. EB200 has less bass but more natural and well defined with better texture. EB200 has mids with better clarity and bright, clean presentation. Low treble with more presence in EMX500. EMX500 has a wide, deep and open sound, maybe irrealistic but spectacular. EB200 more controlled and realistic soundstage and image.
> EMX500 has wow effect, EB200 has more pleasant listening.



I hope to hear the EB200 soon. I like how you describe it... seems like it will suit me.   I am also waiting for the graphenes (clear).   I hope something arrives this week...


----------



## chinmie

Danneq said:


> Your description of Liebesleid reminds me of a less bassy Diomnes Lv2...



in a way, it is closer to the diomnes than to the BK, although they still have their own distinct characteristics. By the way, the Diomnes V2 is also the earbud that i really like after comparing the TOTLs. I hope I'm lucky enough to be able to purchase them next


----------



## SweetEars

does anyone know if graphenes need a lot of burn in??


----------



## acap13

SweetEars said:


> does anyone know if graphenes need a lot of burn in??



I like it since the first time I heard. Burn in however does not magically turn it into something else. Usually it will smooth out or settle down a bit on any harshness on treble and 'hardness' on low frequency.


----------



## rockingthearies (Dec 4, 2017)

Today my Kinera earbuds arrived. 




All I can say is wow I am impressed. The earbuds that I owned before which I sold were the K500, Cygnus and Monk+.

I have barely burned in the Kinera. Maybe for an hour or two. So the sound signature may continue to change.

Compared to the K500, Kinera earbuds loses in terms of resolution and bass quality. K500 have a really nice tight punch to the bass. But I felt the trebles were too piercing and overwhelming it gave me listening fatigue pretty quickly. The Kinera Earbuds were more balanced and more suited for long listening periods.

Compared to the Shozy Cygnus, which I felt the mids on the Cygnus especially the upper mids can be abit over exaggerated. To me vocals on the Cygnus just came off abit weird. The Kinera earbuds present vocals in a more natural manner. In terms of bass response the Kinera have a faster bass decay.

Monk+ these earbuds I love for the luscious mids when you give it some juice. It just sound so good amped. But unfortunately it really lacks resolution and sub bass. The Kinera sub bass region have more presence compared to the Monk+ but by no means near iem levels. The resolution of the Kinera is better than the Monk+ . The swing hits on the cymbals in jazz music is very smooth and you can hear ever strike on the Kinera earbuds

Sounds like overhype so here is what I do not really like with Kinera Earbuds is with J -Rock. Where there are really fast hi hats hits and quick snares strokes, I feel the Kinera may be struggling to keep up as a result on some of the One Ok Rock tracks the presentation can sound a little messy. All the earbuds I listened to is from an LG V20. Which Steve from Kinera said that for the earbuds to show its true potential, properly amping it and burning it in for 80 hours at least is necessary. But I am very happy with the earbuds currently. Definitely my favourite one thus far.


----------



## gazzington

I want some kinera earbuds!  Today I have gone cheap and cheerful sanclip rockboxed with vidos.  Weirdly for how cheap they are vidos may be my favorite earbuds.  They never leave me fatiged and I always enjoy listening with them.


----------



## Fake Amethyst

gazzington said:


> I want some kinera earbuds!  Today I have gone cheap and cheerful sanclip rockboxed with vidos.  Weirdly for how cheap they are vidos may be my favorite earbuds.  They never leave me fatiged and I always enjoy listening with them.



Letting go of my kinera earbuds, can check the headphone for sale thread for price and pictures


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 4, 2017)

Wow a pair of limited edition Kinera and limited edition ‘super’ cygnus in the fs section... My poor wallet I must resist lol.

I so badly want that cygnus, it’s the one ‘what if’ that came to mind when I was listening to my stardust. I was wondering tomyself what if the stardust had the cygnus sound signature but kept the resolution and full vocals of the bk... Would be such an epic earbud.

Anyone considering the bk should probably just grab that cygnus limited edition instead, if it’s as described you will not be disappointed as I can almost hear it’s signature judging from my normal cygnus and stardust.

Don’t get me wrong, with the right source and foams the bk stardust is absolutely epic... But the cygnus is more ‘fun’ in some instances especially just out of my mobile. It’s more musical and less analytical but i do love both signatures and they are pretty close in the grand scheme of things.


----------



## SweetEars

also good for testing acoustics


----------



## j4100

seanc6441 said:


> I so badly want that cygnus...



I was actually tempted, but checked myself as I have already spent too much recently. Got the BK, burning in the Samsara, and waiting on the EBX.

My Kinera buds arrived today. A very quick listen on the FiiO X5ii revealed that I had to boost the volume a fair bit, more so than my other buds, so will do some burn in first and use an amp before I do any listening. The buds appearance and the little logo'ed Kinera bag is pretty good for the price, even before listening.


----------



## rockingthearies

j4100 said:


> I was actually tempted, but checked myself as I have already spent too much recently. Got the BK, burning in the Samsara, and waiting on the EBX.
> 
> My Kinera buds arrived today. A very quick listen on the FiiO X5ii revealed that I had to boost the volume a fair bit, more so than my other buds, so will do some burn in first and use an amp before I do any listening. The buds appearance and the little logo'ed Kinera bag is pretty good for the price, even before listening.



Oh yes the Kinera Earbuds are pretty insensitive. And require some amplification to shine. The Kinera really does give the Cygnus a run for its money. Really wish I had the BK to try but way too expensive and out of my budget. Maybe in the future when I strike the lottery hahaha


----------



## seanc6441

j4100 said:


> I was actually tempted, but checked myself as I have already spent too much recently. Got the BK, burning in the Samsara, and waiting on the EBX.
> 
> My Kinera buds arrived today. A very quick listen on the FiiO X5ii revealed that I had to boost the volume a fair bit, more so than my other buds, so will do some burn in first and use an amp before I do any listening. The buds appearance and the little logo'ed Kinera bag is pretty good for the price, even before listening.



New foam combo on my bk. This is the only combination that increases the soundstage and separation whilst also perfectly taming the high end. With the right fit bass is felt and not just heard, but I’ll have to do some tweaking to push the top piece of the foam forward for a better seal as just doing it withmy finger improves the bass impact and overall excitement of mid bass drums etc.

I came across this combo out of disatisfaction of the treble and overall balance using my previous thin monk combo. It was good but not right. So I went back to the classic heigi foam and loved the tamed treble and the bass response but didn’t like the congestion and lack of air/space. So I knew I needed something thick but also allowing air through (heigi isn’t pourous and too dense for an airy sound)

So I grabbed my new monk ex pack, took two of the new black monk thins for each side, cut both into donuts of the same size. I put one on first then the other on top. It’s a little thick but it’s workable because it’s spongy. The sound is extremely balanced, there’s space between you and the earbud so mids and vocals are not in your face and more tastefully forward than aggressively so, high’s are detailed but now perfectly tamed just to allow enough through to keep it sparkly. Low end with tampering on the fit is full and impactful. I feel like this is how the stardust should have been since day one but the wrong foams were supplied!!!


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 4, 2017)

rockingthearies said:


> Oh yes the Kinera Earbuds are pretty insensitive. And require some amplification to shine. The Kinera really does give the Cygnus a run for its money. Really wish I had the BK to try but way too expensive and out of my budget. Maybe in the future when I strike the lottery hahaha



Stick with the kinera then. The Main advantage of the bk over the cygnus is the higher resolution of sound and fuller mids/vocals. But to my ear the cygnus still sounds great except slightly thinner on the mids for a more neutral presentation rather than neutral warm.

If you’re enjoying your kinera more than Cygnus I’d say stick with it and enjoy!


----------



## Iseon

For anyone who bought the NiceHCK Graphene but found the tonality too cold / analytical I really recommend applying a full foam + donut foam on top of the full foam.
This makes it seal better and brings up the mid-bass, plus it balances the treble with the mids to make it sound warmer and overall more balanced. The bass becomes less tight and it hurts the imaging slightly but it's worth it for the warmer tonality, and the soundstage is still great. I find these almost as enjoyable as full size senn hd598s  very impressive for mere earbuds!


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 4, 2017)

Iseon said:


> For anyone who bought the NiceHCK Graphene but found the tonality too cold / analytical I really recommend applying a full foam + donut foam on top of the full foam.
> This makes it seal better and brings up the mid-bass, plus it balances the treble with the mids to make it sound warmer and overall more balanced. The bass becomes less tight and it hurts the imaging slightly but it's worth it for the warmer tonality, and the soundstage is still great. I find these almost as enjoyable as full size senn hd598s  very impressive for mere earbuds!


I never found it analytical and I think for me full foams would muddy the already average midrange clarity and bump the mid bass too much possibly causing bloat. I did try full heigi foams but I think the graphene’s for me just aren’t my favourite but some people love it and I think everyone should try many foams first anyway because of how drastically the sound can change.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 4, 2017)

Added the blutack just under the foam at the top and pressed with my thumb to push the foam forward slightly at the top. Now the seal is perfect and bass has come alive.

This are without a doubt the best i’ve heard out of my shozy bk now.

Everything is a 10/10 imo. Soundstage is now a wonderful medium-large size but presents as close with great imaging and a slightly airier sound than before. Nothing sounds too distant or too close to my ears, everything is within very tight margins but easily discernible in location thanks to the imaging on these things being excellent.

I cannot improve upon these anymore other than to update my source but these sound great out of my phone now too.

No more congested sound like from the heigi donuts or no rough texture and over emphasised treble from the monk thin I had before.

Really happy listening to this now, sooooo gooooood lol


----------



## wokashraf (Dec 4, 2017)

hello everyone...first post in this forum..i have been reading quite alot of review...searching for my first earbud..looking for earbud with natural, well defined and able to hear detail in a song..now looking to buy eb200, auglamour rx-1 or graphene mx760... For graphene i found 2 model, 1 from NiceHCK, and 1 more from ****...are this different?..

when i search on taobao i did found graphene mx985?..not sure either google translate did correct job in translating the page..haha. as i prefer taobao due to really fast shipping compare to aliexpress

add on, might up my budget and buy music maker tomahawk as it seems to go for sale on 12.12


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 4, 2017)

wokashraf said:


> hello everyone...first post in this forum..i have been reading quite alot of review...searching for my first earbud..looking for earbud with natural, well defined and able to hear detail in a song..now looking to buy eb200, auglamour rx-1 or graphene mx760... For graphene i found 2 model, 1 from NiceHCK, and 1 more from ****...are this different?..
> 
> when i search on taobao i did found graphene mx985?..not sure either google translate did correct job in translating the page..haha. as i prefer taobao due to really fast shipping compare to aliexpress
> 
> add on, might up my budget and buy music maker tomahawk as it seems to go for sale on 12.12



The tomahawk isn’t exactly neutral it’s more up and down on the frequency response. The vocals don’t sound natural either, too cold metallic sounding. IMO unless you pair with a warm amped source and EQ it heavily it will not sounding neutral and natural. But it does have excellent separation and sounds powerful on instruments with good soundstage.

I’d say try the diy pk2s which I also ordered  as a more balanced version on diy pk2. pk2 is my favourite budget earbud for natural midrange and detailed treble. Bass is slightly light but I modded mine for more bass and warmth and it sounds great.

If you use amp + warm source I’d say the tomahawk is actually very good, but if it’s for mobile then pick the pk2s or other buds.


----------



## Iseon

wokashraf said:


> hello everyone...first post in this forum..i have been reading quite alot of review...searching for my first earbud..looking for earbud with natural, well defined and able to hear detail in a song..now looking to buy eb200, auglamour rx-1 or graphene mx760... For graphene i found 2 model, 1 from NiceHCK, and 1 more from ****...are this different?..
> 
> when i search on taobao i did found graphene mx985?..not sure either google translate did correct job in translating the page..haha. as i prefer taobao due to really fast shipping compare to aliexpress
> 
> add on, might up my budget and buy music maker tomahawk as it seems to go for sale on 12.12



It is hard to say for sure but I would say it is likely that **** and nicehck are sourcing their graphenes from the same manufacturer. However most people in this thread seem to have the NiceHCK ones, so get those if you want to be sure.  HCK  also has a newer cheaper graphene version, but the store owner told me in a message that they sound different from the original ones, so I would stay away from those.


----------



## wokashraf

seanc6441 said:


> The tomahawk isn’t exactly neutral it’s more up and down on the frequency response. The vocals don’t sound natural either, too cold metallic sounding. IMO unless you pair with a warm amped source and EQ it heavily it will not sounding neutral and natural. But it does have excellent separation and sounds powerful on instruments with good soundstage.
> 
> I’d say try the diy pk2s which I also ordered  as a more balanced version on diy pk2. pk2 is my favourite budget earbud for natural midrange and detailed treble. Bass is slightly light but I modded mine for more bass and warmth and it sounds great.
> 
> If you use amp + warm source I’d say the tomahawk is actually very good, but if it’s for mobile then pick the pk2s or other buds.


will add into buying list. is this fengru diy pk2 or niceHCK? .i didnt have amp at the moment... only rely on my pc and my phone as source. another suggestion?


----------



## wokashraf

Iseon said:


> It is hard to say for sure but I would say it is likely that **** and nicehck are sourcing their graphenes from the same manufacturer. However most people in this thread seem to have the NiceHCK ones, so get those if you want to be sure.  HCK  also has a newer cheaper graphene version, but the store owner told me in a message that they sound different from the original ones, so I would stay away from those.


i do think the source from same manufacture and do in house tuning as i cant found this two store in taobao..nvm..will stick to niceHCK to be safe..thanks..


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 4, 2017)

wokashraf said:


> will add into buying list. is this fengru diy pk2 or niceHCK? .i didnt have amp at the moment... only rely on my pc and my phone as source. another suggestion?


then pk2/pk2s will sound good. I have diy pk2 but i bought dsqm pk2s from nicehck because apparently it has better bass for more balanced sound.

So i cannot say if dsqm pk2s is better than the original but I do love the original so I think I will love the new version too.

Up to you but my suggestion would be to try either pk2 or dsqm pk2s both from nicehck.

on the description it says...

dsqm pk2s: 32 ohm 117 db sensitivity

pk2: 16 ohm 106 db sensitivity

hmm I really can’t tell which will drive easier but 16 ohm sounds better but higher db sensitivity is usually more efficient.

Maybe both drive well through mobile, would need more opinions on that.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Noticed the Duotres earbud by Abnormal Sound is up on Rholupat. - http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone/d-u-o-t-r-e-s.html

 "Duotres comes a balanced sound, inherent with ABnormal signature as our previous Legendary Diomnes."

A budget Diomnes maybe? I'll likely order one tonight and compare when I get them.


----------



## waynes world

wokashraf said:


> hello everyone...first post in this forum..i have been reading quite alot of review...searching for my first earbud..looking for earbud with natural, well defined and able to hear detail in a song..now looking to buy eb200, auglamour rx-1 or graphene mx760... For graphene i found 2 model, 1 from NiceHCK, and 1 more from ****...are this different?..
> 
> when i search on taobao i did found graphene mx985?..not sure either google translate did correct job in translating the page..haha. as i prefer taobao due to really fast shipping compare to aliexpress
> 
> add on, might up my budget and buy music maker tomahawk as it seems to go for sale on 12.12



Don't forget to also lower your budget and get the emx 500's (everyone should have a pair!)


----------



## PacoBdn (Dec 4, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> New foam combo on my bk. This is the only combination that increases the soundstage and separation whilst also perfectly taming the high end. With the right fit bass is felt and not just heard, but I’ll have to do some tweaking to push the top piece of the foam forward for a better seal as just doing it withmy finger improves the bass impact and overall excitement of mid bass drums etc.
> 
> I came across this combo out of disatisfaction of the treble and overall balance using my previous thin monk combo. It was good but not right. So I went back to the classic heigi foam and loved the tamed treble and the bass response but didn’t like the congestion and lack of air/space. So I knew I needed something thick but also allowing air through (heigi isn’t pourous and too dense for an airy sound)
> 
> So I grabbed my new monk ex pack, took two of the new black monk thins for each side, cut both into donuts of the same size. I put one on first then the other on top. It’s a little thick but it’s workable because it’s spongy. The sound is extremely balanced, there’s space between you and the earbud so mids and vocals are not in your face and more tastefully forward than aggressively so, high’s are detailed but now perfectly tamed just to allow enough through to keep it sparkly. Low end with tampering on the fit is full and impactful. I feel like this is how the stardust should have been since day one but the wrong foams were supplied!!!



I use the same setting in EB200!! The sound Is fantastic now


----------



## Saoshyant

Fake Amethyst said:


> Letting go of my kinera earbuds, can check the headphone for sale thread for price and pictures



I'm assuming they're already sold?


----------



## seanc6441

PacoBdn said:


> I use the same setting in EB200!! The sound Is fantastic now


Nice I really love the space/air and the seal for sub bass is great. Slightly less than heigi but not far off, the next best thing for bass emphasis that sounds really clean and retains all the details of the treble without the harshness.


----------



## doggiemom

fairx said:


> I just realize the same seller of the black foam also have white and red color. The mentioned weight is same at 10 gram (not sure whole 100pcs as 10 gram?). Anybody tried it yet?
> 
> http://s.aliexpress.com/veQJVBVj


I am having a problem with this seller.  I ordered one pack of 100 black foams, and one pack of 100 white foams.  The seller messaged me to say that the packages were shipped separately and for me "not to worry about it."  The black foams arrived, and the white foams never did.  The seller is now asking for pictures:  how can I take a picture of a package that never arrived?  They were only a couple of dollars so I'm not losing sleep over it, but just a word of caution.


----------



## SweetEars

Iseon said:


> For anyone who bought the NiceHCK Graphene but found the tonality too cold / analytical I really recommend applying a full foam + donut foam on top of the full foam.
> This makes it seal better and brings up the mid-bass, plus it balances the treble with the mids to make it sound warmer and overall more balanced. The bass becomes less tight and it hurts the imaging slightly but it's worth it for the warmer tonality, and the soundstage is still great. I find these almost as enjoyable as full size senn hd598s  very impressive for mere earbuds!



i find that its rather bright tonality. just that its not  sharp in resolution. everything seems to come off one large sound. when u say full foam what foams are u referring too?


----------



## SweetEars

doggiemom said:


> I am having a problem with this seller.  I ordered one pack of 100 black foams, and one pack of 100 white foams.  The seller messaged me to say that the packages were shipped separately and for me "not to worry about it."  The black foams arrived, and the white foams never did.  The seller is now asking for pictures:  how can I take a picture of a package that never arrived?  They were only a couple of dollars so I'm not losing sleep over it, but just a word of caution.


are these the same as the monk thin foams?


----------



## SweetEars

PacoBdn said:


> I use the same setting in EB200!! The sound Is fantastic now


i use a similar  mod foams just that its not the monk thin foams. what i did is cut a bigger hole so that the air vents at the back are more exposed.


----------



## SweetEars

eb200 and emx500....which do u prefer?


----------



## SweetEars

the problem with the new graphenes is that they lack sub bass extension.


----------



## doggiemom

SweetEars said:


> are these the same as the monk thin foams?


I think that they are a bit thicker.  At least the black ones....... I can't comment on the white ones as they never arrived.


----------



## PacoBdn (Dec 5, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> eb200 and emx500....which do u prefer?



Both, hahaha.

For vocals and Classic EB200. For films, EDM, funk, the EMX500.

Above both and for any genre I prefer Graphene.


----------



## SweetEars

PacoBdn said:


> Both, hahaha.
> 
> For vocals and Classic EB200. For films, EDM, funk, the EMX500.
> 
> Above both and for any genre I prefer Graphene.


the graphenes u referring too, they are  the old versions right?


----------



## wokashraf

seanc6441 said:


> then pk2/pk2s will sound good. I have diy pk2 but i bought dsqm pk2s from nicehck because apparently it has better bass for more balanced sound.
> 
> So i cannot say if dsqm pk2s is better than the original but I do love the original so I think I will love the new version too.
> 
> ...


i didnt found pk2s from aliexpress..only found DQSM Z&W panda pk2s..can give me link for this one?


----------



## kurtextrem

seanc6441 said:


> Added the blutack just under the foam at the top and pressed with my thumb to push the foam forward slightly at the top. Now the seal is perfect and bass has come alive.
> 
> This are without a doubt the best i’ve heard out of my shozy bk now.
> 
> ...


Wanna mass produce those foams? Need them too


----------



## j4100

I'm still trawling through this thread and currently in August 2016. I have a couple of questions.

VE Nirvana - what happened here? Clearly hotly anticipated from way back. 

Elibuds - had a look at their Fb page and shop, but it's empty. Do they only make batches of buds for group buys?


----------



## theoutsider (Dec 5, 2017)

SOLD


----------



## vladstef

theoutsider said:


> I have a set of one-hour-old single-axis Dual Dynamic MMCX earbuds up for sale. PM me if interested. Thanks for viewing.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-...bles-full-metal-w-free-shipping-usd65.866801/



Is this FENGRU HYCK100? It looks like it but the cable connector doesn't have these rings on provided photos. It costs 80$ currently on ali.


----------



## jogawag

wokashraf said:


> i didnt found pk2s from aliexpress..only found DQSM Z&W panda pk2s..can give me link for this one?


panda pk2s url.
https://aliexpress.com/item/2017-dqsm-z-PK2s/32831045644.html


----------



## SweetEars

can someone tell me if  i want the large soundstage of the new graphene but at the same time the sound signature of the EMX500 ... which earbuds to get?


----------



## Iseon (Dec 5, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> i find that its rather bright tonality. just that its not  sharp in resolution. everything seems to come off one large sound. when u say full foam what foams are u referring too?


Yeah I suppose it's not perfectly detailed across the spectrum but I did find the treble a bit too hot. 2 layers of foam helped reduce the hot treble, and also creating a better seal for me making them sound much fuller -- originally I thought they sounded a little bit 'thin', now it sounds more like a full-size headphone(I would compare it to sennheiser px100). Though another combination of foams may create a better seal for other people - depends on your ears. The foams I used are the equivalent of Monk+ thick foams (I think those that come with graphenes are similar), and the thick donuts that come with Monk+.


----------



## seanc6441

SweetEars said:


> can someone tell me if  i want the large soundstage of the new graphene but at the same time the sound signature of the EMX500 ... which earbuds to get?


emx500 soundstage is big already? Are you saying you want a bigger stage? getting into full size headphones big here lol


----------



## SweetEars

seanc6441 said:


> emx500 soundstage is big already? Are you saying you want a bigger stage? getting into full size headphones big here lol


well the new version graphenes i got have a bigger soundstage than the emx500.. just that their articulation sub bass ect is not nuanced like the emx500


----------



## SweetEars

Iseon said:


> Yeah I suppose it's not perfectly detailed across the spectrum but I did find the treble a bit too hot. 2 layers of foam helped reduce the hot treble, and also creating a better seal for me making them sound much fuller -- originally I thought they sounded a little bit 'thin', now it sounds more like a full-size headphone(I would compare it to sennheiser px100). Though another combination of foams may create a better seal for other people - depends on your ears. The foams I used are the equivalent of Monk+ thick foams (I think those that come with graphenes are similar), and the thick donuts that come with Monk+.


thanks. will try it out ... anyway i find the new graphene sound  to be on steroids and brutish in their presentation


----------



## kurtextrem

A new graphene earbud, 400 ohm: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/15-...977152.html?shortkey=bIVzQBRf&addresstype=600


----------



## SweetEars

with the new graphenes i find that using the donut foams helps bring out the bass and sub bass


----------



## waynes world (Dec 5, 2017)

waynes world said:


> Like I said before, I'm really glad that you pointed that one out. Some pics:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





waynes world said:


> It probably isn't the right gizmo for you. But I usually have my earbuds (or headphone) cable running down the _inside_ of my shirt and to the phone which is in a belt holster. I really don't like having the cable hanging loose on the outside of my shirt (often gets caught on things etc). So because I like to wear them this way, having the cables attached to the phone is a pain whenever I want to take my phone out of it's holster and use it for browsing etc (including sometimes just wanting to leave it on my desk). What I'll do with the btr1 is have it also clipped to my belt or in a pocket (I doubt I will ever have it clipped to my shirt like in that photo), and my phone will be happily untethered. So for me, that will be much more convenient. And also the application of having it attached to my stereo will offer a lot of convenience as well.



A bit of an update (I posted the below in the BTR1 thread as well):

I got my Fiio BTR1 this morning. I am beyond happy with it so far:
- inexpensive
- very small, but solid and well built, and has a clip on it
- nice controls
- using it with my S7 edge (exynos) in aptx mode I presume, listening to 16/44 flac files.. it sounds very good to my non-golden ears and sounds so close in quality compared to listening straight off of the phone that I'm very happy with it.
- bluetooth connection is solid, no hiss that can hear, range is decent.
- amp is powerful enough for my needs and for most of my gear.
- everything I've tried so far off of it sounds great (graphene and seahf 150 earbuds, vmoda m100's, nighthawks etc)

I'll report back if I find any issues, but as of right now this is going into my "one of the best audio purchases I've made" category.

Thanks Fiio!


----------



## waynes world (Dec 5, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> with the new graphenes i find that using the donut foams helps bring out the bass and sub bass



+1. And if you haven't already done so, try shifting the angle of the stems as well. Instead of hanging straight down, I get a better seal and more bass by pushing the bottom of the stems forward. Everyone's ears are different though, so just try moving them around to see what works best for you.

edit: I'm relating to the "old" graphene above btw.


----------



## wokashraf

can someone compare niceHCK diy pk2 vs mx760 graphene?...


----------



## mbwilson111 (Dec 5, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> thanks. will try it out ... anyway i find the new graphene sound  to be on steroids and brutish in their presentation





waynes world said:


> +1. And if you haven't already done so, try shifting the angle of the stems as well. Instead of hanging straight down, I get a better seal and more bass by pushing the bottom of the stems forward. Everyone's ears are different though, so just try moving them around to see what works best for you.
> 
> edit: I'm relating to the "old" graphene above btw.



I have no idea which graphene I have coming.  It was ordered on 11:11 by my husband.  I don't think I  have even seen a photo of it but I do know it is clear.  That's all.

at this rate, the EB200 that was ordered last week (also by my husband) could  arrive first!

Meanwhile, I have been in a headphone mood the past few days but I did listen with my Monks for a few hours last night.  I think I have finally figured out that they do fit me.  They were the first buds I had ever had in my ears and I had no idea how to place them.  So I just kept ordering other things that might be smaller.  So far I have not been disappointed in any bud I have tried.... because I find lots of good reviews here first


----------



## j4100 (Dec 5, 2017)

mbwilson111 said:


> at this rate, the EB200 that was ordered last week (also by my husband) could  arrive first!



haha - I had ordered a Jazz R7.0 amp and some adapter just after 11.11. I wondered why the tracking kept saying it was waiting for pick up. I eventually asked Jim (NiceHCK) if it was indeed on it's way and the tracking was wrong, when he replied that China Customs had just returned the package! Doesn't matter what country you are in, the Customs are out to get ya.  Happily, the package is on it's way again.


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> So far I have not been disappointed in any bud I have tried.... because I find lots of good reviews here first



And if you are lucky like me, because we're blessed with amazingly adaptive ears 

Hmm, judging by my drawers full of headphones and earbuds, I suppose that adaptive ears can also be a curse (for the wallet at least!).


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> And if you are lucky like me, because we're blessed with amazingly adaptive ears



I have said that I do enjoy different sound signatures.  



waynes world said:


> Hmm, judging by my drawers full of headphones and earbuds, I suppose that adaptive ears can also be a curse (for the wallet at least!).



It will get really expensive when we need a whole new house to keep all this stuff in!  It is doubly dangerous to have two headfiers in the house.  Dangerous to the wallet and to the house.  Some of my headphone cases are under chairs... lol.  I have stopped though.  These buds that are on the way are my last.  I have already stopped getting more headphones and iems. 

I wonder if I will ever get that MEMT x6.  I am not convinced that the seller actually  has it in stock.


----------



## seanc6441

Lads what’s the best warm bassy earbud around $80-150 for all uses (mobile and desktop and not too sourcs picky). Something with polite treble more mids and bass emphasised.

Asking for someone else


----------



## doggiemom

I'm late for the hype train on these, but I received  2017 NICEHCK DIY MX500 PK1 from the Singles Day sale and am really impressed.  They perform way above the price point.  Wide soundstage, thumpy bass, and warm, airy vocals.  They sound a little sloppy on percussion, but this is easily forgiven for the value price.


----------



## SweetEars

doggiemom said:


> I'm late for the hype train on these, but I received  2017 NICEHCK DIY MX500 PK1 from the Singles Day sale and am really impressed.  They perform way above the price point.  Wide soundstage, thumpy bass, and warm, airy vocals.  They sound a little sloppy on percussion, but this is easily forgiven for the value price.


a little more review?


----------



## SweetEars

mbwilson111 said:


> I have no idea which graphene I have coming.  It was ordered on 11:11 by my husband.  I don't think I  have even seen a photo of it but I do know it is clear.  That's all.
> 
> at this rate, the EB200 that was ordered last week (also by my husband) could  arrive first!
> 
> Meanwhile, I have been in a headphone mood the past few days but I did listen with my Monks for a few hours last night.  I think I have finally figured out that they do fit me.  They were the first buds I had ever had in my ears and I had no idea how to place them.  So I just kept ordering other things that might be smaller.  So far I have not been disappointed in any bud I have tried.... because I find lots of good reviews here first



well if its clear shell  maybe its the new graphene , the same one i  got . before making comparisons pls give the graphenes a few days of use first.


----------



## SweetEars

on my new graphenes somehow this AR Rahman composed  song sounds better ..using the donuts foams supplied.


----------



## cigarello

So guys would the best upgrade from the vido under $30 be the graphene mx760?


----------



## chellity

SweetEars said:


> on my new graphenes somehow this AR Rahman composed  song sounds better ..using the donuts foams supplied.




Wow, even on youtube you can hear the production quality of the song!   my headphones are out of commission, so i've been enjoying my k's 300 pro out of my magni 3 with some sub bass EQ.


----------



## Raketen (Dec 6, 2017)

Enjoying the AR Rahman links. That Swasamae link is a good ssssssssssssssssssibilance test track... at least for my ear canals.


----------



## gazzington

waynes world said:


> And if you are lucky like me, because we're blessed with amazingly adaptive ears
> 
> Hmm, judging by my drawers full of headphones and earbuds, I suppose that adaptive ears can also be a curse (for the wallet at least!).


I am glad someone said that as I have enjoyed everything I’ve owned in different ways, even the tomahawk which some are not keen on.


----------



## euge (Dec 6, 2017)

chellity said:


> Wow, even on youtube you can hear the production quality of the song!   my headphones are out of commission, so i've been enjoying my k's 300 pro out of my magni 3 with some sub bass EQ.



Been loving the K300 pro too, the soundstage makes everything sounds grand and beautiful, it's also fairly balanced sounding, not as v-shaped as graphene with fuller mids.


----------



## waynes world

cigarello said:


> So guys would the best upgrade from the vido under $30 be the graphene mx760?



The old (not sure about the new) graphene is generally considered to be great (I love them), but I also am really digging the Seahf 150C's (if you're into some kick*ss bass). There seems to be so many good options out there, it's hard to say what the "best upgrade" option would be! And that's without factoring in your preferences etc


----------



## Dark Helmet

Just curious, as I haven't been able to follow this thread as closely as recent months, why does my first pair of Graphne's sound better (less top end and better, fuller bass) than the newer pair I have. The first pair were bought from NICEHCK and the second pair from AK, both have the same specs.


----------



## kurtextrem

When you receive great new earbuds, you just start noticing how much greater the Stardust is. Like I immediately notice the TY Hi-Z HP-150s is a great earbud and maybe has more bass than the Stardust... but the soundstage is SO tinier. Stardust feels around your head, HP-150s feels like earbuds.
I don't find the mids "weird" on that bud. You can also hear a great amount of details, it's just waaaaaay less around your head, more like in your ears (no burn in hours).


----------



## chinmie

SweetEars said:


> can someone tell me if  i want the large soundstage of the new graphene but at the same time the sound signature of the EMX500 ... which earbuds to get?



What's your budget? If you're planning to go TOTL, the K's 500, samsara, Ty Hi 650, Yinman 500 and 600 are really close to closed back headphones in soundstage. So does the diomnes v2, but that's hard to aquire


----------



## cigarello (Dec 6, 2017)

waynes world said:


> The old (not sure about the new) graphene is generally considered to be great (I love them), but I also am really digging the Seahf 150C's (if you're into some kick*ss bass). There seems to be so many good options out there, it's hard to say what the "best upgrade" option would be! And that's without factoring in your preferences etc


Where do I find the old graphene now? Or did they stop stocking them?

And are your old graphene better than the Seahf 150C? I prefer a neutral sound with a slight hint of darkness/bass presence.


----------



## SweetEars

chellity said:


> Wow, even on youtube you can hear the production quality of the song!   my headphones are out of commission, so i've been enjoying my k's 300 pro out of my magni 3 with some sub bass EQ.


i am sure thats not the original quality in Rahman's studio. youtube compressed it but still it sounds good.


----------



## SweetEars

Dark Helmet said:


> Just curious, as I haven't been able to follow this thread as closely as recent months, why does my first pair of Graphne's sound better (less top end and better, fuller bass) than the newer pair I have. The first pair were bought from NICEHCK and the second pair from AK, both have the same specs.


maybe they are both different or not burned in...


----------



## SweetEars (Dec 6, 2017)

another classic Rahman song from 1993....

now my graphenes sound a bit different


----------



## Dark Helmet

SweetEars said:


> maybe they are both different or not burned in...


Oh no they have been burned in plenty.


----------



## SweetEars

another rahman song to test the holographic or fluidity of the graphene


----------



## SweetEars (Dec 6, 2017)

this will test the entire spectrum..excellent sound engineering by AR Rahman


----------



## SweetEars

i can say the EMX500 does Rahman's music well with the articulation like Rahman wanted. while the graphene adds a different sound signature


----------



## wskl

cigarello said:


> Where do I find the old graphene now? Or did they stop stocking them?



'old' graphene is the more expensive one
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...-Rare-Earth-Graphene/1825606_32821104494.html

'new' graphene is cheaper
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...Graphene-Custom-Unit/1825606_32839988234.html


----------



## j4100

j4100 said:


> I'm still trawling through this thread and currently in August 2016. I have a couple of questions.
> 
> VE Nirvana - what happened here? Clearly hotly anticipated from way back.
> 
> Elibuds - had a look at their Fb page and shop, but it's empty. Do they only make batches of buds for group buys?



Sorry about quoting my own post, but hoping for a reply. Plus I have another one.

Heavenly Sounds Cadenza. Anyone here have one and can offer their opinion? Am I correct that shipping from Indonesia is expensive?

Thanks.


----------



## Dark Helmet

wskl said:


> 'old' graphene is the more expensive one
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...-Rare-Earth-Graphene/1825606_32821104494.html
> 
> 'new' graphene is cheaper
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...Graphene-Custom-Unit/1825606_32839988234.html


My first pair is the exact one in the first link you posted, my second is this one and it wasn't cheap at the time.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...32821193042.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.P3dJp0


----------



## SweetEars (Dec 6, 2017)

Raketen said:


> Enjoying the AR Rahman links. That Swasamae link is a good ssssssssssssssssssibilance test track... at least for my ear canals.




The swasemae song is from the year 2000 . its better to listen to Rahman actual soundtracks than his stage performances.


----------



## SweetEars

choose chiggy wiggy first track sung by kylie minogue


----------



## SweetEars (Dec 6, 2017)

its also good to listen to Rahman's first soundtrack in his career  in 1992 which made him shoot to stardom .. this particular track u can hear the bass and glass breaking effects


----------



## SweetEars

this is also good...............


----------



## ballog

I think I will send the South-Indian Maestro a pair of EMX500 as gift .


----------



## SweetEars

ballog said:


> I think I will send the South-Indian Maestro a pair of EMX500 as gift .


a genius................


----------



## SweetEars

i have the cut and paste exact timeline where this song starts...u will realise the power of the genius in the 1990s


----------



## SweetEars

i ddi some modificatiosn to the white  thin donut foams which came with the graphenes... it looks liek the sound is better now ... this is the mod i did 

i cut a bigger hole at the back side covering the vents for more loose fit .. now the sound seems to be different  on the graphenes


----------



## ballog

SweetEars said:


> i have the cut and paste exact timeline where this song starts...u will realise the power of the genius in the 1990s




My favorite from that period would be 'Marghazhi Poove' from the film May Madham (1994).


----------



## SweetEars

ballog said:


> My favorite from that period would be 'Marghazhi Poove' from the film May Madham (1994).


are u indian??

well here is the song in another language.. i will say this song is also a good test...


----------



## ballog (Dec 6, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> are u indian??
> 
> well here is the song in another language.. i will say this song is also a good test...



I'm of south-indian (tamilian) descent. I don't understand a word of tamil but I love A R Rahman's music.


----------



## SweetEars

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-diy-mx760-graphene-10-22000hz.22777/reviews#review-19524

I have posted a review of the new graphenes in depth


----------



## SweetEars (Dec 6, 2017)




----------



## seanc6441

If anyone wants to test HD washing machine sounds in youtube



Seriously though that low end hum is very cool, I love this opening so much.


----------



## seanc6441

oh and I’ll re ask my question regarding the best ‘dark’ sounding earbud around 80-160 that drives from a portable DAP.

Need your opinions guys, all my buds are too bright or neutral to recommend them.


----------



## DBaldock9

seanc6441 said:


> oh and I’ll re ask my question regarding the best ‘dark’ sounding earbud around 80-160 that drives from a portable DAP.
> 
> Need your opinions guys, all my buds are too bright or neutral to recommend them.



Of the earbuds I've got, that would be the original 115Ω Svara-L, but I haven't heard the current 32Ω model, to know whether it sounds "_dark_", or not.


----------



## waynes world

Dark Helmet said:


> Just curious, as I haven't been able to follow this thread as closely as recent months, why does my first pair of Graphne's sound better (less top end and better, fuller bass) than the newer pair I have. The first pair were bought from NICEHCK and the second pair from AK, both have the same specs.





Dark Helmet said:


> My first pair is the exact one in the first link you posted, my second is this one and it wasn't cheap at the time.



Your first pair are the same as mine. Why do they sound better? Because they _are_ better???

Seriously, they should have called them something else altogether, as this will lead to nothing but ongoing confusion.

From now on when anyone mentions their "graphenes", they should specify "graphene(old)" or "graphene(new)".


----------



## Dark Helmet

waynes world said:


> Your first pair are the same as mine. Why do they sound better? Because they _are_ better???
> 
> Seriously, they should have called them something else altogether, as this will lead to nothing but ongoing confusion.
> 
> From now on when anyone mentions their "graphenes", they should specify "graphene(old)" or "graphene(new)".


My old Graphne cables are starting to oxidize. They have a slight greenish hue to them. This bums me out. Supposedly it won't affect the sound, but we will see.


----------



## waynes world

Dark Helmet said:


> My old Graphne cables are starting to oxidize. They have a slight greenish hue to them. This bums me out. Supposedly it won't affect the sound, but we will see.



Same with mine. I consider it a badge of honour lol.  But seriously, it doesn't affect the sound.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 6, 2017)

DBaldock9 said:


> Of the earbuds I've got, that would be the original 115Ω Svara-L, but I haven't heard the current 32Ω model, to know whether it sounds "_dark_", or not.


hmm there’s a ‘new’ svara l for €47 from AACK audio and then there’s a ‘new’ svara l from Nicehck for €60. Any difference? I’ll check the impedance on them now.

Both 32 ohm... there’s even one with 12ohm from ak audio store I think.

Any links to the recommended version?


----------



## Danneq

seanc6441 said:


> oh and I’ll re ask my question regarding the best ‘dark’ sounding earbud around 80-160 that drives from a portable DAP.
> 
> Need your opinions guys, all my buds are too bright or neutral to recommend them.



I've been trying to think of something that might fit your description and the only 2 I can think of are Hifiman ES100 and CampFred (1). Hifiman doesn't have very hard hitting bass and is pretty neutral but it's more towards a "darkish" sound signature than a bright one. CampFred is discontinued but if you can find a pair for up to $150 it's definitely worth it. CF 2 is a step up in sound but also in price.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 6, 2017)

Danneq said:


> I've been trying to think of something that might fit your description and the only 2 I can think of are Hifiman ES100 and CampFred (1). Hifiman doesn't have very hard hitting bass and is pretty neutral but it's more towards a "darkish" sound signature than a bright one. CampFred is discontinued but if you can find a pair for up to $150 it's definitely worth it. CF 2 is a step up in sound but also in price.


Is there anything with Zen 2.0 tonality but without the mad amping requirements of that bud. Are the campfreds brighter in the treble region? It seems this guy wants a more rolled off treble and warm mids and bass. Something more relaxing than energetic but of high quality like the Zen.

At first I recommended the zen but his source is a fiio e10k dap so I’m guessing that he may want to go for something else, not sure though.


----------



## PacoBdn

SweetEars said:


> the graphenes u referring too, they are  the old versions right?



My Graphene are this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...32821104494.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.sSSpKD

My mistake when I commented that the new graphene would be worse, is because what some people commented did not look anything like what I was listening to with them. I repeat and I will not tire of doing it, that the adjustment achieved with the different foams is the key to achieve the desired sound.

Except for the Fengru EMX500, in the rest I use a full foam and a donut on top. With this I get them to seal me much better and the serious ones appear that others do not listen without affecting the response in highs.

Yesterday I received the K'S 500. With the full foam I found them very good but for my taste they lacked some bass. I put a donut on it and suddenly they appeared.

By the way, now I am going to compare them with my dear graphenes and I will comment on the result. At the moment in the brief listening last night I liked them a lot. What I can advance is that they need good amplification. With my new Shanling M3S in high gain I had to raise the volume a lot ...


----------



## Matija Osrečki

So...Svara L

Which version to buy for bass?

And is that 115ohm version hard to drive? Can I use it with my phone or do I need to plug it in my FiiO A3?

Just yesterday I discovered I love earbuds and have been listening to my Faaeal 32 ohm over my TFZ Exclusive 5s, Tennmak Crazy Cellos, Svara Reds...
I ordered the exm500 although I don't like that type of shell (I never liked earbuds because they don't stay in my ear)


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Is there anything with Zen 2.0 tonality but without the mad amping requirements of that bud. Are the campfreds brighter in the treble region? It seems this guy wants a more rolled off treble and warm mids and bass. Something more relaxing than energetic but of high quality like the Zen.
> 
> At first I recommended the zen but his source is a fiio e10k dap so I’m guessing that he may want to go for something else, not sure though.



The Zen 1.0's would be perfect for him. Well, that's if they could be found, and if they didn't love amping.


----------



## PacoBdn (Dec 6, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-diy-mx760-graphene-10-22000hz.22777/reviews#review-19524
> 
> I have posted a review of the new graphenes in depth




I really liked your review. I do not know to explain how you do it.

But those are not my graphene as you could see in the post that I answered earlier. That's why I said that I no longer know what the new ones are and what the old ones are.


----------



## vladstef (Dec 6, 2017)

Just received Headroom MS16 and RY4S (regular non braided cable), listened to both for a couple of hours. I don't use foams on my earbuds as I don't need them to get a proper bass response.

These 2 really surprised me, they do sound seriously good. RY4S has a fantastic cable that was packaged properly and it doesn't have a single kink in it, otherwise they are both built well. I can see how people like to compare RY4S to EMX500, it has less treble energy with a bit more present vocals but quite a bit stronger and more stable bass. It really does sound like a quality speaker that doesn't distort when pushed. I like EMX more but RY4S is probably a better value as it's cheaper and it has a better QC for sure. These 2 however don't have the same tonality, RY4S being darker and bassier.

MS16 is essentially upgraded Auglamour RX-1. I find it slightly mid centric without losing bass and treble, it upgrades everything RX-1 has but loses slightly of that RX-1's mid range special sauce. MS16 has slightly thicker lower mid range than I'd like, bass can distort if really pushed, sometimes they sound slightly harsh, but these things are all minor mistakes - overall it is a properly balanced earbud that has a very detailed sound and forward vocals.
So, these both get my recommendations even after a really short listening session and I'd take both of them over EMX500 simply due to QC. MS16 is much more special than it's ridiculous blue cable would suggest, I think it should have more of a presence here as a counterweight to the dominating EMX500.
All of these are better than the Vido buds, which is seriously amazing and I can't grasp the reality where things are progressing this fast for products that cost <10$. At this rate we will have today's totl buds at budget price in a couple of years.


----------



## Danneq

seanc6441 said:


> Is there anything with Zen 2.0 tonality but without the mad amping requirements of that bud. Are the campfreds brighter in the treble region? It seems this guy wants a more rolled off treble and warm mids and bass. Something more relaxing than energetic but of high quality like the Zen.
> 
> At first I recommended the zen but his source is a fiio e10k dap so I’m guessing that he may want to go for something else, not sure though.



Can't say that I've heard anything that sounds like Zen 2. Zen 1 is very different. Deep and hard hitting bass and a very energetic sound overall.

Campfred might appear as brighter than Zen 2 in the treble, since it's not rolled off like on Zen 2, but the treble is quite polite and nice. Detailed without any trace of brightness.

If a Zen 2 type of sound is what your friend is looking for, Zen 2 might be the only option...


----------



## gravicap

Talking about Zen 2. Is there any bud with same (or close) sound (I'm in love with it) but with more ergomomic shell/fit? I love them so much that I've listened to them for ~4-5 hours today and my ears ache. No such problem with Yuin PK1 though


----------



## fairx

vladstef said:


> Just received Headroom MS16 and RY4S (regular non braided cable), listened to both for a couple of hours. I don't use foams on my earbuds as I don't need them to get a proper bass response.
> 
> These 2 really surprised me, they do sound seriously good. RY4S has a fantastic cable that was packaged properly and it doesn't have a single kink in it, otherwise they are both built well. I can see how people like to compare RY4S to EMX500, it has less treble energy with a bit more present vocals but quite a bit stronger and more stable bass. It really does sound like a quality speaker that doesn't distort when pushed. I like EMX more but RY4S is probably a better value as it's cheaper and it has a better QC for sure. These 2 however don't have the same tonality, RY4S being darker and bassier.
> 
> ...



This intrigues me. As I just rediscovering my RX-1 with the new porous foam I got form AE. (this fragile foams works miraculously on every earbud  I had - great on everything including tomahawk and RX-1,  except on vido). I can stress how much everyone should buy 1 or 2 packs. 

I used to complain a lot about lack of satisfying "kick" on RX-1 and with new foams it seem to fix the problem for me. 

So, I found a lot of ms16 with various price but they look essentially the same? Can someone confirm if they're same?


----------



## vladstef

fairx said:


> This intrigues me. As I just rediscovering my RX-1 with the new porous foam I got form AE. (this fragile foams works miraculously on every earbud  I had - great on everything including tomahawk and RX-1,  except on vido). I can stress how much everyone should buy 1 or 2 packs.
> 
> I used to complain a lot about lack of satisfying "kick" on RX-1 and with new foams it seem to fix the problem for me.
> 
> So, I found a lot of ms16 with various price but they look essentially the same? Can someone confirm if they're same?



I went through a few stages of rediscovering RX-1 as well, it is a peculiar earbud, perhaps even more so than normal given the smaller size and different fit than regular buds. I use pretty much all of my larger buds without any foam, but I can only make it work with RX-1 if I apply pressure a bit and hold very still. I am very interested in those foams, I still don't have proper foams that do not mess with sound quality. Could you share a link?


----------



## seanc6441

Monk thin + monk donut (or heigi donut) over it gave me the best sound on my RX1 (which I since gave to someone). It was pretty nice ‘fun’ signature but not my preference. The resolution and clarity on that bud is very nice though.


----------



## vladstef

MS16 definitely grabbed my attention and I've been listening to it for about 5-6 hours without stopping pretty much. They have insanely good vocals (even if nasal at times) and details in the mid-range, paired with clean extended treble and bass is present so that you actually get some sub bass as well, truly outstanding sound. Sound stage is mostly perceived as average due to forward vocals, but it's atmospheric - very reminiscent of RX-1 yet again.

These buds actually have more refinement than I could've ever imagined in this segment. They need some proper reviews and a wider audience, quickly.


----------



## mbwilson111

After looking at all the links, it appears that the graphene that is on its way to me is the new one.


----------



## wskl

seanc6441 said:


> hmm there’s a ‘new’ svara l for €47 from AACK audio and then there’s a ‘new’ svara l from Nicehck for €60. Any difference? I’ll check the impedance on them now.
> 
> Both 32 ohm... there’s even one with 12ohm from ak audio store I think.
> 
> Any links to the recommended version?



I seem to remember that a few people on EA group saying the 115 ohm version is pretty much sold out and only the 32 ohm version is available, also known as the Svara Escase.  Might be worth asking the seller to check before buying though.


----------



## kvik

seanc6441 said:


> Is there anything with Zen 2.0 tonality but without the mad amping requirements of that bud..


Am I the only one using Zen 2.0 with an iPhone (+KaiserTone), and being content with the sound? I honestly think comfort is more of an issue than amping. And yes, I did try other/better amps, but I don't think that changed the basic tonality or sound signature. As well, a quick look in the E10K thread seems to indicate the amp is fine with Zen 2.0 impedance and sensitivity.


----------



## waynes world (Dec 6, 2017)

kvik said:


> Am I the only one using Zen 2.0 with an iPhone (+KaiserTone), and being content with the sound? I honestly think comfort is more of an issue than amping. And yes, I did try other/better amps, but I don't think that changed the basic tonality or sound signature. As well, a quick look in the E10K thread seems to indicate the amp is fine with Zen 2.0 impedance and sensitivity.



Funny that you should mention that! A few hours ago I thought that I'd try the Zen 2.0 off of the Fiio BTR1 (connected via bluetooth to my Samsung S7). The btr1 is rated at
25 mW into 32 ohms, so I wasn't expecting miracles when it came to the Zen 2.0, and I basically wanted to verify that the btr1 would not be able to drive the Zen 2.0's to satisfaction.

Well, it's 2 hours later and I've been very satisfied - sounds awesome. So I agree with you that it's not all about amping with the Zen 2.0 (like I also thought it was).

Edit: having said the above, I just hooked up my most awesome little C&C BH amp to the BTR1, and I must admit that the Zen 2.0's really do respond well to amping and they sound more than awesome now - they sound freakishly awesome lol. So yeah, the 2.0's sound great without amping (and with the right synergy) and it's much more convenient, but they do love some good amping to full fill their destiny


----------



## HungryPanda

I'll need to dig out my Headroom  MS16's and have a listen, if I can give up listening with my K300's and take them out


----------



## SweetEars

vladstef said:


> MS16 definitely grabbed my attention and I've been listening to it for about 5-6 hours without stopping pretty much. They have insanely good vocals (even if nasal at times) and details in the mid-range, paired with clean extended treble and bass is present so that you actually get some sub bass as well, truly outstanding sound. Sound stage is mostly perceived as average due to forward vocals, but it's atmospheric - very reminiscent of RX-1 yet again.
> 
> These buds actually have more refinement than I could've ever imagined in this segment. They need some proper reviews and a wider audience, quickly.


i may just get this one for next purchase...


----------



## SweetEars

ballog said:


> I'm of south-indian (tamilian) descent. I don't understand a word of tamil but I love A R Rahman's music.



yeah.. his work in the 1990s   as amazing. An amazing artiste with his keen sense of sound and tune.  though its stil good nowadays , he lost a bit of the shine


----------



## SweetEars

fairx said:


> This intrigues me. As I just rediscovering my RX-1 with the new porous foam I got form AE. (this fragile foams works miraculously on every earbud  I had - great on everything including tomahawk and RX-1,  except on vido). I can stress how much everyone should buy 1 or 2 packs.
> 
> I used to complain a lot about lack of satisfying "kick" on RX-1 and with new foams it seem to fix the problem for me.
> 
> So, I found a lot of ms16 with various price but they look essentially the same? Can someone confirm if they're same?


is there a link to buy these porous foams u are talking about?


----------



## SweetEars

this old  Rahman song  somehow sounds very good in the EMX500


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> I'll need to dig out my Headroom  MS16's and have a listen, if I can give up listening with my K300's and take them out



You're a bit too prolific with the buds bud! I shouldn't read your posts lol. I don't really need any more buds at the moment, but what does that matter?

Given that I love the graphenes and the Seahf 150C's, what's your recommendation? If it wasn't for my penchance for <$30 buds, you'd probably say the EBX's I'm sure (I might get that one down the road).

Hit me!


----------



## SweetEars

EMX500 vs MS16...  any comparisons? also does MS16 can  come with brown cable?


----------



## HungryPanda

waynes world said:


> You're a bit too prolific with the buds bud! I shouldn't read your posts lol. I don't really need any more buds at the moment, but what does that matter?
> 
> Given that I love the graphenes and the Seahf 150C's, what's your recommendation? If it wasn't for my penchance for <$30 buds, you'd probably say the EBX's I'm sure (I might get that one down the road).
> 
> Hit me!


 I don't want to encourage you any more than you do yourself but FAAEAL Snow-lotus 2.0 64 ohm, K's 300 and the EBX are getting a lot of use at the moment


----------



## SweetEars

vladstef said:


> MS16 definitely grabbed my attention and I've been listening to it for about 5-6 hours without stopping pretty much. They have insanely good vocals (even if nasal at times) and details in the mid-range, paired with clean extended treble and bass is present so that you actually get some sub bass as well, truly outstanding sound. Sound stage is mostly perceived as average due to forward vocals, but it's atmospheric - very reminiscent of RX-1 yet again.
> 
> These buds actually have more refinement than I could've ever imagined in this segment. They need some proper reviews and a wider audience, quickly.


does the MS16 have a good  of amount of depth ?


----------



## cigarello

Would you guys have the K's300 over the old graphene and MS16?


----------



## SweetEars

Headroom MS16
Dynamic Driver



The Headroom MS16 are special. They are true open-back earbuds (not a decoration, blocking the back mesh will drastically harm the sound) so the sound is airy and spacy. There is no noise isolation, obviously, and people around you will be able to hear your music playing.

These are some of the most natural sounding earbuds so far. Easily comparable to the classic VE Monk. In my opinion? Better mids and gentler highs, but Monk seem to have a bit more stable bass response on high volumes. The eye-catching looks, great build quality and superb sound make these earbuds one of my best and most surprising purchases so far! Even if these won't be your best pair, you will be shocked by the level of quality you can get for less than $10.

Black/silver + blue cable:

Buy on 
	

Silver + white cable:

Buy on 
	

Pros

Cons

Very mature and clean sound quality. The bass is punchy and the highs are vivid but gentle.
True open-back earbuds, no gimmicks.
Solid build quality, especially for earbuds.
A very unique design, to say the least.
A super attractive price, and a Type-C option for those who don't have a 3.5mm socket.
 

On unsafely high volumes, the bass can lose some of its stability (as in, slight distortion).
They might sound a bit shouty initially, because of the bump in the mids.
Since these are open-back, there is some sound leakage from the back.
Package & Accessories


Package:
Hard plastic (clear) + paperboard


Ear Pads - Foam:
2 × Black


















Build & Materials


Housing:
Metal + plastic (matte), open-back, metal faceplate


Remote:
Metal, triple-button*


Y-Split:
Metal, soft strain relief


Cable:
Silicone-coated (smooth), 118cm, twisted, soft, straight


Plug:
Metal, straight, short, soft strain relief


The play/pause button is on one side, while the volume buttons and the mic are on the other side.
The volume buttons work on both iPhone and Android devices.























Comfort & Fit

Oddly enough, these earbuds are the first actually comfortable earbuds in my collection. I'm using them for several hours straight and my ears don't get sore. Getting a proper fit is very straightforward, no tinkering is required.

Lows / Bass

Excellent sub-bass and an accurate bass response overall, especially on low to medium loudness. Very punchy and yet balanced and not overbearing. On unsafely high volumes, the bass can lose some of its stability (as in, slight distortion).

Mids / Vocals

The mids are amazingly clear and crisp. They are warm, but unlike **** Tank, they aren't too warm. The bass sounds more balanced and more vocal-friendly, while Tank seems to be more bass-oriented. The mids sound a bit shouty/forward initially, especially if you're used to earphones with recessed mids, but your hearing will adjust in just a few minutes and you'll forget that you're wearing these earbuds at all.

Highs / Treble

Extremely clear and subtle highs. Detail is quite delicate and accurate and there doesn't seem to be any kind of harshness. Tonally they are somewhere in between neutral and bright. I found these highs suitable for most music genres.

Frequency Response




Reviewed on 2017-08-09 20:04:44 (UTC)


----------



## SweetEars

The song "Swasame" composed by Asian Mozart A.R.Rahman for tamil film "Thenaali" is used as the background music in this scene in "Accidental Husband"


----------



## SweetEars




----------



## gazzington

Anybody know what k samsara sound like?


----------



## fairx

They you go guys. The porous foam on AE. Not as thin as monk+ but in my experience has better seal quality (maybe my ears.) 

100 Pcs Black Sponge 
http://s.aliexpress.com/uyae6zIB 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## SweetEars (Dec 7, 2017)

fairx said:


> They you go guys. The porous foam on AE. Not as thin as monk+ but in my experience has better seal quality (maybe my ears.)
> 
> 100 Pcs Black Sponge
> http://s.aliexpress.com/uyae6zIB
> (from AliExpress Android)


are they better than the monks in SQ?


----------



## SweetEars

can someone tell me what this means for earphones?


----------



## RobinFood

I am starting to really like the earbud factor, and just got the Monk plus and the Yincrow X6. 

If I wanted a mini AKG k702 for atmospheric gaming, movies, and music in the earbud format, with a wide soundstage and good imaging, what would be the best earbud?


----------



## HungryPanda

cigarello said:


> Would you guys have the K's300 over the old graphene and MS16?


 I definitely prefer it but it needs to be driven by a decent amp/high quality dap.


----------



## cigarello

HungryPanda said:


> I definitely prefer it but it needs to be driven by a decent amp/high quality dap.


Is the Zishan Z2 enough?


----------



## HungryPanda

cigarello said:


> Is the Zishan Z2 enough?


 I have no idea, never used one


----------



## PacoBdn

RobinFood said:


> I am starting to really like the earbud factor, and just got the Monk plus and the Yincrow X6.
> 
> If I wanted a mini AKG k702 for atmospheric gaming, movies, and music in the earbud format, with a wide soundstage and good imaging, what would be the best earbud?



This:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...32821104494.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.sSSpKD


----------



## SweetEars (Dec 7, 2017)

all try this and tell me what earbuds u use and how they sound like


----------



## RobinFood

PacoBdn said:


> This:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...32821104494.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.sSSpKD



Does it have a good soundstage? I saw it recommended a lot for the detail and extension, but not for the out-of-head experience.
Does it work better with an amp? How does it compare to the Rose Masya or the Shozy BK?


----------



## SweetEars

RobinFood said:


> Does it have a good soundstage? I saw it recommended a lot for the detail and extension, but not for the out-of-head experience.
> Does it work better with an amp? How does it compare to the Rose Masya or the Shozy BK?


check the headfi review


----------



## eaglesgift

What's with all the AliExpress affiliate links people are posting on this thread - is that allowed on head-fi? If it is, it makes me question some of the buying advice and opinions I've been reading lately, I have to say.


----------



## RobinFood (Dec 7, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> check the headfi review



I did, that's why I was surprised by the suggestion.
Many reviews seem to say the soundstage on them is average at best, so I thought maybe there was something more to them than the reviews.

Edit: Ah, I see what you mean. So it sounds a lot like the Shozy BK. Are the shells comfortable?


----------



## Danneq

RobinFood said:


> I am starting to really like the earbud factor, and just got the Monk plus and the Yincrow X6.
> 
> If I wanted a mini AKG k702 for atmospheric gaming, movies, and music in the earbud format, with a wide soundstage and good imaging, what would be the best earbud?



If you are prepared to go up to around $50, Yincrow RW-777 is a solid recommendation if you are looking for that AKG K70x type of sound.


----------



## HungryPanda

The Moondrop Nameless gives a nice neutral wide soundstage that I think sound similar to AKG house sound


----------



## RobinFood

Danneq said:


> If you are prepared to go up to around $50, Yincrow RW-777 is a solid recommendation if you are looking for that AKG K70x type of sound.



I actually have a bigger budget than that. I was planning on just getting one good earbud instead of a drawer full of "meh" buds, but the more I read here, the more I want to try!


----------



## RobinFood

HungryPanda said:


> The Moondrop Nameless gives a nice neutral wide soundstage that I think sound similar to AKG house sound


Those sound like they are exactly what I am looking for from the reviews!
Have you played any games with them?


----------



## HungryPanda

No I have not, but have watched movies with them and they sound great and are very comfortable


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> I am starting to really like the earbud factor, and just got the Monk plus and the Yincrow X6.
> 
> If I wanted a mini AKG k702 for atmospheric gaming, movies, and music in the earbud format, with a wide soundstage and good imaging, what would be the best earbud?



try the Masya or Cygnus.


----------



## fairx

SweetEars said:


> are they better than the monks in SQ?


 to my ears, yes. Monk+ thin foam ain't bad but these new foam works even better in getting seal. I did not detect any issue the mids or highs overly reduced by the foams as I usually detected with normal full foam. Qian39, RX-1, tomahawk, sharp MD, eb200, ty 320, docomo all these earbud SQ  mproves or inaffected. Except for vido which is still better with monk thin foam. IMHO YMMV

I'm still waiting for the white foam. I ordered white  earlier than my 2nd black foam but the black one already arrives.  No idea when white will come as they're not tracked outside China.


----------



## j4100

RobinFood said:


> I actually have a bigger budget than that. I was planning on just getting one good earbud instead of a drawer full of "meh" buds, but the more I read here, the more I want to try!



That was my intention as well, but I seem to have the bud bug.

I noticed your comment about the Aliexpress links. I don't think there is any particular bias here. There are a couple of stores known to be very reliable and some offer additional discount for head-fi users or those on the store's FB page. There is one store that cannot be mentioned due to it being banned from Head-fi. Most users just post links from their usual stores. Of course, some earbuds are only available from one or two stores anyway. YMMV


----------



## gazzington

Just so I know, which store is banned and why?


----------



## HungryPanda

W**E*sy for nefarious postings on Head-Fi


----------



## B9Scrambler

gazzington said:


> Just so I know, which store is banned and why?



In detail 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chi...iems-amps-dacs.684159/page-2008#post_12676708


----------



## waynes world

PacoBdn said:


> This:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...32821104494.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.sSSpKD



Old graphenes.



SweetEars said:


> check the headfi review



Which review? This one? Old graphenes:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-diy-graphene.22565/

Or this one? New graphenes (your review):
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-diy-mx760-graphene-10-22000hz.22777/



RobinFood said:


> I did, that's why I was surprised by the suggestion.
> Many reviews seem to say the soundstage on them is average at best, so I thought maybe there was something more to them than the reviews.
> Edit: Ah, I see what you mean. So it sounds a lot like the Shozy BK. Are the shells comfortable?





HungryPanda said:


> The Moondrop Nameless gives a nice neutral wide soundstage that I think sound similar to AKG house sound



According to ClieOS, the nameless sounds similar to the old graphenes, but smoother, so they seem to be a safe bet to me as well.


----------



## gazzington

B9Scrambler said:


> In detail
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chi...iems-amps-dacs.684159/page-2008#post_12676708


Thanks. It's good that I know for future reference.


----------



## gazzington

I have been very happy with all my purchases under €50 but am planning on a £100 purchase so want to ensure good quality


----------



## seanc6441

SweetEars said:


> are they better than the monks in SQ?


Nah. Monks are slightly clearer (thinner) and soften sponge. But these work great as a first layer if you want to apply a donut over it, then it doesn't need to be soft texture but is a considerably thinner than standard full foams.

They are good for the price, they will be very serviceable and you get 100. What's not to like  But they don't replace the VE monk thin foams if your picky about the texture and absolute most clairty IMO.


----------



## gazzington

Hmm trying to decide between k samsara and rose mayla. Anybody own both to give impressions?


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 7, 2017)

RobinFood said:


> I am starting to really like the earbud factor, and just got the Monk plus and the Yincrow X6.
> 
> If I wanted a mini AKG k702 for atmospheric gaming, movies, and music in the earbud format, with a wide soundstage and good imaging, what would be the best earbud?



Shozy Cygnus. Neutral - warm 'analog' sounding low end, polite sub bass, slightly mid bass bump. Neutral midrange that's and quiet detailed and natural sounding, slightly upper mid/lower high's bump. Vocals are clear and medium bodied, both female and male vocals sound nice IMO. Lower treble is slightly moe prominent, upper treble slightly rolled off. Which gives you a nice sparkle without ever becoming peaky. Pair with Monk thin foam for best tonal balance and clarity.

I have not heard te K702 but that's how it was described in a review to be somewhat similar to my cygnus. The cygnus goes for about $75 but you can get them in the FS section sometimes for $40-50.

Another option that I cannot say for certain will be ideal but sounds like a good option for a more airy analytical sound would be the creative auvara air. There's some on ebay free shipping from Japan for about $70 I think. The original rrp was like $200 but it's an older model but apparently still good!


----------



## SweetEars

waynes world said:


> Old graphenes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i dont own the old ones as i not sure how they sound like ... if the price is an indicator than u better off getting the older ones ..


----------



## SweetEars

fairx said:


> to my ears, yes. Monk+ thin foam ain't bad but these new foam works even better in getting seal. I did not detect any issue the mids or highs overly reduced by the foams as I usually detected with normal full foam. Qian39, RX-1, tomahawk, sharp MD, eb200, ty 320, docomo all these earbud SQ  mproves or inaffected. Except for vido which is still better with monk thin foam. IMHO YMMV
> 
> I'm still waiting for the white foam. I ordered white  earlier than my 2nd black foam but the black one already arrives.  No idea when white will come as they're not tracked outside China.


i think the white ones came with my new graphenes. they are bit thinner than the usual blue/red ones.. and a bit more  transparent  soundstage..


----------



## seanc6441

@RobinFood sorry didn't see it was for gaming. Probably not the cygnus then the staging isn't as big as you'd hope for.

The Rose Masya has a great soundstage but the imaging is only mediocre IMO, so maybe not that either.

The nameless may be a good shout for a more mid range price.

I still think from what I've read the aurvana air may be an option for you.


----------



## Dark Helmet

gazzington said:


> Hmm trying to decide between k samsara and rose mayla. Anybody own both to give impressions?


Samsara. They sound more mature, polished, warm with great speed and punch.


----------



## seanc6441

SweetEars said:


> i think the white ones came with my new graphenes. they are bit thinner than the usual blue/red ones.. and a bit more  transparent  soundstage..


Maybe I’ll have to check them again, I was sure the monk thins stretched thinner in use because they were more spongy/flexible and the cheap ones tend to just break if stretched too far. Maybe fresh ones are thinner on the cheaps but to me the monks in practice performed better. Narrow margins though, both sound good.


----------



## gazzington

Dark Helmet said:


> Samsara. They sound more mature, polished, warm with great speed and punch.


Thanks. Are they the best for around £100 or should I look at others?


----------



## Dark Helmet

gazzington said:


> Thanks. Are they the best for around £100 or should I look at others?


You can buy it from whoever gives you the best price. I'm not sure that there are variances in the Samsara from seller to seller. I had to send 2 of them back as the first unit I had had a driver issue and the second had bubbles in the finish. Hopefully the third time is a charm. Look at Nicehck and ask for a better deal. Hope that helps.


----------



## RobinFood

seanc6441 said:


> @RobinFood sorry didn't see it was for gaming. Probably not the cygnus then the staging isn't as big as you'd hope for.
> 
> The Rose Masya has a great soundstage but the imaging is only mediocre IMO, so maybe not that either.
> 
> ...



I think I will try the aurvana. It is relatively cheap here, and this monday is Cyber Monday in Japan. I will pick it up if there is a good discount on it.


----------



## seanc6441

RobinFood said:


> I think I will try the aurvana. It is relatively cheap here, and this monday is Cyber Monday in Japan. I will pick it up if there is a good discount on it.


Yes I didn’t realise you were in Japan, on the creative website the price is much lower I think like €45 equivalent in Japanese Yen. Might be the best deal.

I think you can remove the earhooks if you wanted, not everyone likes them.


----------



## chellity

fairx said:


> They you go guys. The porous foam on AE. Not as thin as monk+ but in my experience has better seal quality (maybe my ears.)
> 
> 100 Pcs Black Sponge
> http://s.aliexpress.com/uyae6zIB
> (from AliExpress Android)



Exactly this sentiment!  they're great thin foams, not quite as delicate as monk foams which is great for me.  They're also less scratchy than the fluffy foams.  Comparing hiegi full foams to these, you can clearly hear the difference.  The hiegis definitely do affect detail, but they make earbuds sound bassier and darker in return.  I've hole punched some hiegi full foams with 2 tiny holes, and even then i'm able to hear the treble escape much more clearly.  Just expect a few defective ones in a huge cheap bag of foams, not a big deal. 

So, it's all about matching the right foams to the right bud. I love these thin foams with my k's 300 pro since they can do a solid 20hz tone with sub bass EQ on my magni 3...they do not need excess bass.  But with kineras, they're detailed and bright leaning, so hiegis foams balance them out pretty well even if detail is affected a bit.  And even then, I always use sub bass EQ even though im no bass head...I just believe in the harman curve.   I'd love to see some thin hiegis, or better yet, dual density foams for the best of both sides


----------



## Raketen (Dec 7, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> Yes I didn’t realise you were in Japan, on the creative website the price is much lower I think like €45 equivalent in Japanese Yen. Might be the best deal.
> 
> I think you can remove the earhooks if you wanted, not everyone likes them.



Creative has a 30% site-wide sale ATM, unfortunately the Air is out of stock, tried to grab a pair myself the other day.

From reading Danneq's comments the Yincrow 777 is looking pretty good though.


----------



## B9Scrambler

The new Lyra Collection 32 ohm from Astrotec is a gorgeous looking and sounding flagship earbud for the brand.

https://head-fi.org/showcase/astrotec-lyra-collection.22766/reviews


​


----------



## waynes world

B9Scrambler said:


> The new Lyra Collection 32 ohm from Astrotec is a gorgeous looking and sounding flagship earbud for the brand.
> 
> https://head-fi.org/showcase/astrotec-lyra-collection.22766/reviews
> 
> ​



Processing your nice review. What's their price?


----------



## SweetEars

i just like state this to everyone using laptops that use embedded conexant smartaudio HD sound card and windows 10 . Sometimes u hear the sound  as flat. that because of some bugs related to windows 10 services for the sound enhancements to work.

restart the device or  completely remove and  reinstall the drivers for the proper services to start


----------



## B9Scrambler

waynes world said:


> Processing your nice review. What's their price?



300 USD. A little more expensive than the Mojito which I think is an equal on performance, however, the build quality, accessories, and presentation easily make up the extra cost.


----------



## SweetEars

seanc6441 said:


> Maybe I’ll have to check them again, I was sure the monk thins stretched thinner in use because they were more spongy/flexible and the cheap ones tend to just break if stretched too far. Maybe fresh ones are thinner on the cheaps but to me the monks in practice performed better. Narrow margins though, both sound good.


take out the blue/red ones and the  white foams . put them side by side and look from sideways  u can see the difference.... the white foams are in a  way better in bass than the monk thin foams. Monks thin foams are way too thin and porous..


----------



## SweetEars (Dec 7, 2017)

using the new version graphenes for a few days now i  guess there must to be a flaw win in their tuning. the vocals tend  creep into the soundstage a lot.

it makes the vocals reverb  at times sound hollow and in your head


----------



## eaglesgift

j4100 said:


> That was my intention as well, but I seem to have the bud bug.
> 
> I noticed your comment about the Aliexpress links. I don't think there is any particular bias here. There are a couple of stores known to be very reliable and some offer additional discount for head-fi users or those on the store's FB page. There is one store that cannot be mentioned due to it being banned from Head-fi. Most users just post links from their usual stores. Of course, some earbuds are only available from one or two stores anyway. YMMV


Actually it was me that made the comment about AliExpress links but what I asked was why people were posting _affiliate_ links, i.e. links with affiliate marketing codes in them that make the poster money when people click on them and then buy the items in question. It's forbidden in the posting guidelines and it makes those posters reviews and recommendations highly suspect in my opinion.

I think it's a shame because this site (and this thread in particular) seems like a great place to share a special hobby but some people are obviously more interested in making a few dollars out of their fellow posters than in discussing a shared interest and helping each other out.


----------



## j4100

eaglesgift said:


> Actually it was me that made the comment about AliExpress links but what I asked was why people were posting _affiliate_ links, i.e. links with affiliate marketing codes in them that make the poster money when people click on them and then buy the items in question. It's forbidden in the posting guidelines and it makes those posters reviews and recommendations highly suspect in my opinion.
> 
> I think it's a shame because this site (and this thread in particular) seems like a great place to share a special hobby but some people are obviously more interested in making a few dollars out of their fellow posters than in discussing a shared interest and helping each other out.



Sorry for mixing up posters. Thanks for clarifying. I never noticed that before.


----------



## waynes world

eaglesgift said:


> Actually it was me that made the comment about AliExpress links but what I asked was why people were posting _affiliate_ links, i.e. links with affiliate marketing codes in them that make the poster money when people click on them and then buy the items in question. It's forbidden in the posting guidelines and it makes those posters reviews and recommendations highly suspect in my opinion.
> 
> I think it's a shame because this site (and this thread in particular) seems like a great place to share a special hobby but some people are obviously more interested in making a few dollars out of their fellow posters than in discussing a shared interest and helping each other out.



I don't even know how to tell the difference between an affiliate link and otherwise. Got some learning to do!


----------



## Jupiterknight

waynes world said:


> I don't even know how to tell the difference between an affiliate link and otherwise. Got some learning to do!


The real world... waynes...  and you can learn from that! It is true, many, or just a few links posted on here, are affiliate links, so someone can get a xx% discount!


----------



## rkw

eaglesgift said:


> what I asked was why people were posting _affiliate_ links, i.e. links with affiliate marketing codes in them that make the poster money when people click on them and then buy the items in question.


I am willing to give people the benefit of the doubt on this — I don't think they are intentionally promoting an affiliate or know that it is happening. When most people share a link, they simply copy and paste the entire link. Only a tiny fraction of internet users how to interpret a URL and its query strings. People are unwittingly passing along affiliate links that were already in the URL.


----------



## wskl (Dec 8, 2017)

rkw said:


> I am willing to give people the benefit of the doubt on this — I don't think they are intentionally promoting an affiliate or know that it is happening. When most people share a link, they simply copy and paste the entire link. Only a tiny fraction of internet users how to interpret a URL and its query strings. People are unwittingly passing along affiliate links that were already in the URL.



Well said, when I post aliexpress links, I usually remove the random text which follows the .html in the URL.  I'm assuming this random text could make up part of the affiliate link.

The problem is how to identify a real affiliate link sent by a user who will profit, because if I copy+paste a link, aliexpress will still generate the random text in the URL even though I am not an affiliate user.


----------



## Rlin987

Well, that's a huge collection lol


----------



## Danneq

RobinFood said:


> I think I will try the aurvana. It is relatively cheap here, and this monday is Cyber Monday in Japan. I will pick it up if there is a good discount on it.



That might be a great choice. I haven't heard Aurvana Air but read that it has got a sound signature similar to the old Audio Technica CM700 series, and that is not too far from what you are looking for.
I still want to push for Yincrow RW-777, mainly because it seems like only ClieOS and I have bought it so far. RW-777 is closer to the CM7/700 type of sound, which is not too far from the AKG K70x type of sound, than Graphene and Moondrop Nameless. Even if both of those are really good, especially considering the price.


----------



## SweetEars

maybe sub bass characteristics


----------



## Danneq (Dec 8, 2017)

B9Scrambler said:


> 300 USD. A little more expensive than the Mojito which I think is an equal on performance, however, the build quality, accessories, and presentation easily make up the extra cost.



I read that the sound doesn't differ much from the original Lyra. Can you confirm that? Personally, I would not spend more than $150, because at around that price level you can get Shozy BK which I find to be better. For $300 you might as well get a pair of Cypherus CAX Black (well, the shipping pushes the price up to around $320). Or add a little bit more and buy a pair of Zen Black if you use an amp.

EDIT: after reading your review I have to say that packaging and accessories surely looks to be premium.


----------



## wskl

ctaxxxx said:


> Noticed the Duotres earbud by Abnormal Sound is up on Rholupat. - http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone/d-u-o-t-r-e-s.html
> 
> "Duotres comes a balanced sound, inherent with ABnormal signature as our previous Legendary Diomnes."
> 
> A budget Diomnes maybe? I'll likely order one tonight and compare when I get them.



I have them but my early impressions are not great, small soundstage and the timbre sounds off, particular in the upper mids, instruments like the violin do not sound natural.  Will give them more time before making a final judgement.


----------



## eaglesgift (Dec 8, 2017)

rkw said:


> I am willing to give people the benefit of the doubt on this — I don't think they are intentionally promoting an affiliate or know that it is happening. When most people share a link, they simply copy and paste the entire link. Only a tiny fraction of internet users how to interpret a URL and its query strings. People are unwittingly passing along affiliate links that were already in the URL.


Yes I did think about that possibility. Easy to check though - if a certain poster's AliExpress links are always passing the same affiliate marketing parameters in the query strings, it's obviously not unintentional.

Edit: I'm probably over sensitive about this kind of thing. I write SEO optimised sales copy and blog posts for a living and I hate what I do - filling the internet up with mindless drivel with the sole purpose of increasing sales for greedy corporations. It's the practice of trying to disguise sales copy as objective reviews and blogs that I really hate..but I have to feed my family  (Apologies for going way off topic)


----------



## Keezus

Hi all. Got my first pair of real earphones recently (Graphenes). I'm really enjoying the sound of it, but my only problem is that the foam tips seem to hurt my ears after extended use. Is this something I'll get used to or should I be replacing the foam tips with something else? 

Also, are there any IEMs around the same price range that I could try? I'm having a lot of fun experimenting with what kind of sound I like. I listen to a lot of hip hop. Thanks


----------



## Danneq

wskl said:


> I have them but my early impressions are not great, small soundstage and the timbre sounds off, particular in the upper mids, instruments like the violin do not sound natural.  Will give them more time before making a final judgement.



Thanks for your impressions. They might influence me to not get Duotres. I liked the description of them sounding like Diomnes, but I do not really need them. So now I have a reason to not buy them. Still a little bit curious about Raven Mk2 from Crow Audio...


----------



## wskl

Keezus said:


> Hi all. Got my first pair of real earphones recently (Graphenes). I'm really enjoying the sound of it, but my only problem is that the foam tips seem to hurt my ears after extended use. Is this something I'll get used to or should I be replacing the foam tips with something else?
> 
> Also, are there any IEMs around the same price range that I could try? I'm having a lot of fun experimenting with what kind of sound I like. I listen to a lot of hip hop. Thanks



- you may have small ears and earbuds may not be for you, there are earbuds with smaller housings though

- you could try listening to them without foams, if there is no ear pain, perhaps the included foams are too thick, the thinnest foams are the ones that come with the Monk+


----------



## RobinFood

Danneq said:


> That might be a great choice. I haven't heard Aurvana Air but read that it has got a sound signature similar to the old Audio Technica CM700 series, and that is not too far from what you are looking for.
> I still want to push for Yincrow RW-777, mainly because it seems like only ClieOS and I have bought it so far. RW-777 is closer to the CM7/700 type of sound, which is not too far from the AKG K70x type of sound, than Graphene and Moondrop Nameless. Even if both of those are really good, especially considering the price.



The problem with the Yincrow RW-777 I have is mostly that I can't find much information about it. I only found two reviews in Japanese, one seemed to say it was good but not great, and the other said it had a wide soundstage that didn't compromise the details, which sounds great. 

I am also worried about the quality. I bought the Yincrow X6, and while I like the sound when I want something warm with bass splash, I haven't seen such a thin and weak looking cable in a long time, and the pictures of the RW-777 also seems to have weak cables.

At the current price, the Aurvana Air is about 10 USDs more, but I get amazon prime delivery time and return potential if I really hate it, so I am really leaning towards that option.

Since you have it, what are your impressions of it? Does the cable look sturdy and durable? How are the imaging and soundstage? Does it sound natural and coherent?


----------



## j4100

RobinFood said:


> The problem with the Yincrow RW-777 I have is mostly that I can't find much information about it.



Pretty sure there are impressions in this thread. If you use the search tool and tick search this thread only you should find something.


----------



## RobinFood

j4100 said:


> Pretty sure there are impressions in this thread. If you use the search tool and tick search this thread only you should find something.



Oh, wow, I didn't know you could do that!


----------



## SweetEars

think i found the best foam combination for the graphenes 1st foam - monk ve thin foams.. then the thinnest donut  foam u have over it


----------



## Danneq (Dec 8, 2017)

RobinFood said:


> The problem with the Yincrow RW-777 I have is mostly that I can't find much information about it. I only found two reviews in Japanese, one seemed to say it was good but not great, and the other said it had a wide soundstage that didn't compromise the details, which sounds great.
> 
> I am also worried about the quality. I bought the Yincrow X6, and while I like the sound when I want something warm with bass splash, I haven't seen such a thin and weak looking cable in a long time, and the pictures of the RW-777 also seems to have weak cables.
> 
> ...




I can understand you. I bought it blindly together with NiceHCK Graphene and DIY PK2 and got a good package deal since I'm a returning customer.
There are so many new great earbuds around $20-25 that the price range ~$40 to $100 might be skipped over. That will work against something like RW-777.

Have you seen Sennheiser MX980/985 in real life? The cable on RW-777 reminds me a bit of it. A bit on the thinner side but not really weak. Overall the build is good and looks professional. The housing is the same shape as Hifiman ES100 but in metal instead of plastic.
The only thing I cannot understand is why the earbuds are not marked with R and L. They are asymmetrical so that helps (as well as listening to songs you know to decide which side is right and which side is left).

I used RW-777 to work today and I can say that they doesn't really work with thrash and death metal. They are transparent and very clear sounding but the sound is a bit too thin. With other genres with mainly acoustic instruments, they can work great.

I often use this instrumental Allan Holdsworth track (either the Road Games (1984) version, or the one I prefer off Wardenclyffe Tower (1992)) to see how earbuds can handle imaging and soundstage. There's a ton of percussion used and reverb and delay that adds to the depth.



RW-777 handles it without any problem. Every little hit on the percussion is well defined and has got a sort of "physical" place in the soundstage. You can easily pinpoint every little sound.The soundstage is deep and wide and out of your head, perhaps because there is no mid bass or mid emphasis? It's probably the earbud I own with the third best soundstage (after Cypherus CAX Red Dragon and ABnormal Diomnes Lv2). Considering that Red Dragon, by far the best earbuds or even headphones I've heard, are custom made and cost over $700 (I got my pair for a little over $600 used) and Diomnes Lv2 used to cost $180 excluding shipping before they were discontinued, that's a pretty good grade to RW-777.

ClieOS wrote this about RW-777: "The RW-777 on the other hand has more of a mature sound - warm and smooth with a pretty good mid-range."
I find it to be smooth and detailed but not that warm. On the other hand it's not bright at all. I do find it to be slightly lean or thin sounding compared to some other earbuds around the same price. That's why I consider it to be more about clarity and soundstage.

Anyway, Creative Aurvana Air might fit your description quite well. There aren't many earbuds with that sort of AKG K70x type of sound...
So you should go for Aurvana Air. At least for now. Until you get an itch to try something new...


----------



## theoutsider

RobinFood said:


> The problem with the Yincrow RW-777 I have is mostly that I can't find much information about it. I only found two reviews in Japanese, one seemed to say it was good but not great, and the other said it had a wide soundstage that didn't compromise the details, which sounds great.
> 
> I am also worried about the quality. I bought the Yincrow X6, and while I like the sound when I want something warm with bass splash, I haven't seen such a thin and weak looking cable in a long time, and the pictures of the RW-777 also seems to have weak cables.
> 
> ...


I think the two jap bloggers quarreled over their different views of Yincrow RW-777 and Blogger Metal's earbuds ranking .


----------



## seanc6441

SweetEars said:


> take out the blue/red ones and the  white foams . put them side by side and look from sideways  u can see the difference.... the white foams are in a  way better in bass than the monk thin foams. Monks thin foams are way too thin and porous..


Depends on what your looking for, monks are thinner so probably more clarity, new monks/cheap thin foams are slightly thicker so provide more rounded sound with extra seal for bass but sloppy less clarity or airy sound.


----------



## ctaxxxx

wskl said:


> - you may have small ears and earbuds may not be for you, there are earbuds with smaller housings though
> 
> - you could try listening to them without foams, if there is no ear pain, perhaps the included foams are too thick, the thinnest foams are the ones that come with the Monk+



Or you can be like me and wear the larger housing earbuds so often that the Shozy's don't fit that well anymore lol.


----------



## seanc6441

wskl said:


> - you may have small ears and earbuds may not be for you, there are earbuds with smaller housings though
> 
> - you could try listening to them without foams, if there is no ear pain, perhaps the included foams are too thick, the thinnest foams are the ones that come with the Monk+


Try an earbud with a smaller shell like shozy, diy pk2, rx1 etc


----------



## chinmie

ctaxxxx said:


> Or you can be like me and wear the larger housing earbuds so often that the Shozy's don't fit that well anymore lol.



Glad (and sad at the same time) that I'm not the only one with enlarged ears from earbuds uses


----------



## seanc6441

ctaxxxx said:


> Or you can be like me and wear the larger housing earbuds so often that the Shozy's don't fit that well anymore lol.


I don’t know whether to laugh or cry xD


----------



## SweetEars

can  some one tell me how this sounds like in the old graphene?


----------



## acap13

ctaxxxx said:


> Or you can be like me and wear the larger housing earbuds so often that the Shozy's don't fit that well anymore lol.



Thats interesting and true. Its like my ear have lost its virginity to a big earbud. Now I could not fit in RX-1 inside my earlobs properly anymore.lol


----------



## fairx

I'm lucky common Sennheiser form factor fits my ear properly. OTOH yuin style rather small. Qian39 has the best fit.


----------



## RodRevenge

Keezus said:


> Hi all. Got my first pair of real earphones recently (Graphenes). I'm really enjoying the sound of it, but my only problem is that the foam tips seem to hurt my ears after extended use. Is this something I'll get used to or should I be replacing the foam tips with something else?
> 
> Also, are there any IEMs around the same price range that I could try? I'm having a lot of fun experimenting with what kind of sound I like. I listen to a lot of hip hop. Thanks


You'll get used to it, if it's only a small disconfort/soreness, i had that for the first 2 weeks and now it's gone, you could also try with smaller shells like some adviced.


----------



## DagsJT (Dec 8, 2017)

Any recommendations on an upgrade to the EMX500's that have a better cable? I listen to mostly R&B, rap and rock. Big fan of bass, too much treble hurts my ears but I love the airiness that treble gives. The EMX500 also has a good feeling of making the sound feel like it's around you so anything that recreates that or is better would be great.

Also my only use will be out of a smartphone, no DAP, so need to be low ohm's. Budget maybe up to £30.


----------



## eaglesgift (Dec 8, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> can  some one tell me how this sounds like in the old graphene?



It's not the sort of music I normally listen to so it's hard for me to say if it sounds like it should or not. Maybe you can say what it is you are wanting to judge? Imaging seems good, separation is good. Vocals sound nice, sweet, possibly a little on the thin side but maybe that's how they were recorded. A little sibilant when the guys sing a bit of backing vocals towards the end of the song. Drum beat is deep and kind of muffled sounding; again, maybe that's how it's supposed to sound! I found it difficult to focus on the music all the way through but I can tell you the girl was wearing a short, leopard print skirt, knee-high black boots and some sort of gold braid around her stomach when she was laying on top of the car 

Edit: Actually the vocals don't sound thin on iPad. First time I listened on PC with Creative USB sound card that I think has crazy high output impedance and it makes things sound a bit boomy and unbalanced.


----------



## waynes world

rkw said:


> I am willing to give people the benefit of the doubt on this — I don't think they are intentionally promoting an affiliate or know that it is happening. When most people share a link, they simply copy and paste the entire link. Only a tiny fraction of internet users how to interpret a URL and its query strings. People are unwittingly passing along affiliate links that were already in the URL.



Spot on.



wskl said:


> Well said, when I post aliexpress links, I usually remove the random text which follows the .html in the URL.  I'm assuming this random text could make up part of the affiliate link.
> 
> The problem is how to identify a real affiliate link sent by a user who will profit, because if I copy+paste a link, aliexpress will still generate the random text in the URL even though I am not an affiliate user.



Also spot on. A while back I noticed that if I go to my orders page on aliexpress and click on one of the products that I ordered, and then copied the URL from the product page, that it had a string of crud after the .html. I didn't know what that extra stuff was, but it bugged me, and I determined that the extra crud was not required, so I started deleting it. So yeah, many people probably don't notice or think about it.


----------



## eaglesgift (Dec 8, 2017)

waynes world said:


> Spot on.
> 
> 
> 
> Also spot on. A while back I noticed that if I go to my orders page on aliexpress and click on one of the products that I ordered, and then copied the URL from the product page, that it had a string of crud after the .html. I didn't know what that extra stuff was, but it bugged me, and I determined that the extra crud was not required, so I started deleting it. So yeah, many people probably don't notice or think about it.


I don't really want to prolong the debate but I just tested that and it doesn't generate any affiliate codes in the links, just one parameter (spm=xxxxxxxxx). Not what I was talking about. The links I was referring to have parameters like aff_platform= and aff_trace_key= in the URL.


----------



## waynes world

SweetEars said:


> i just like state this to everyone using laptops that use embedded conexant smartaudio HD sound card and windows 10 . Sometimes u hear the sound  as flat. that because of some bugs related to windows 10 services for the sound enhancements to work.
> 
> restart the device or  completely remove and  reinstall the drivers for the proper services to start



Is that sound card considered to be very good? Are you not using a DAC? I don't know if your soundcard is the same as the one in my Thinkpad X220 (windows 7), but using a usb DAC instead results in measurably better SQ (even a cheap DAC like the Zuperdac).



SweetEars said:


> using the new version graphenes for a few days now i  guess there must to be a flaw win in their tuning. the vocals tend  creep into the soundstage a lot.
> 
> it makes the vocals reverb  at times sound hollow and in your head



What is your audio source/chain?


----------



## waynes world

eaglesgift said:


> I don't really want to prolong the debate but I just tested that and it doesn't generate any affiliate codes in the links, just one parameter (spm=xxxxxxxxx). Not what I was talking about.



Thanks for checking that.


----------



## eaglesgift (Dec 8, 2017)

I put the graphenes in 40 minutes ago to listen to that tune posted by Sweet Ears and I'm still sitting here with them in, listening to Shine on You Crazy Diamond. I was about to go to bed when I put them on. :-/

I was going to compare them to some other buds I have but I can't be bothered to take them out now.


----------



## mbwilson111

eaglesgift said:


> I put the graphenes in 40 minutes ago to listen to that tune posted by Sweet Ears and I'm still sitting here with them in, listening to Shine on You Crazy Diamond. I was about to go to bed when I put them on. :-/
> 
> I was going to compare them to some other buds I have but I can't be bothered to take them out now.



...and that is how I accidentally stay up all night listening to music sometimes if my  husband is away at work.  I don't have the sense to know when I am tired.


----------



## waynes world

eaglesgift said:


> I put the graphenes in 40 minutes ago to listen to that tune posted by Sweet Ears and I'm still sitting here with them in, listening to Shine on You Crazy Diamond. I was about to go to bed when I put them on. :-/
> 
> I was going to compare them to some other buds I have but I can't be bothered to take them out now.



I think what you're saying is that you like your old graphenes   I haven't listened to Shine On yet with them. Must do.


----------



## mbwilson111

I hope I will  like my new graphenes.... they have not yet arrived but I believe they have finally left China.

Meanwhile, The Memt x6 was given a new revised tracking number... something tells me they don't actually exist yet...

AND.... in further news.... the EB200 has arrived and is in my ears.


----------



## groucho69

eaglesgift said:


> Yes I did think about that possibility. Easy to check though - if a certain poster's AliExpress links are always passing the same affiliate marketing parameters in the query strings, it's obviously not unintentional.
> 
> Edit: I'm probably over sensitive about this kind of thing. I write SEO optimised sales copy and blog posts for a living and I hate what I do - filling the internet up with mindless drivel with the sole purpose of increasing sales for greedy corporations. It's the practice of trying to disguise sales copy as objective reviews and blogs that I really hate..but I have to feed my family  (Apologies for going way off topic)


----------



## SweetEars (Dec 8, 2017)

waynes world said:


> Is that sound card considered to be very good? Are you not using a DAC? I don't know if your soundcard is the same as the one in my Thinkpad X220 (windows 7), but using a usb DAC instead results in measurably better SQ (even a cheap DAC like the Zuperdac).
> 
> 
> 
> What is your audio source/chain?



i am not sure as i have never used any DAC and amp before... but i dont think i need it , as i am satisfied with how my earbuds sound like already.

As yo yr question if the soundcard is good.. i say its quite  good  ...my older laptop from 2008  had realtek sound card.. it was also good too.. i believe they are all embedded sound cards and are good enough ...they can do 192000hz 24 bit. i am not sure if yr laptop has the same one but the laptop i am using now is a 2016 model. so the sound card maybe better than yours 


try this 2000 AR Rahman composed song . it has articulated music highs lows and soundstage..
In my soundcard , it sounds very good and yes there is articulation present..


----------



## PacoBdn

rkw said:


> I am willing to give people the benefit of the doubt on this — I don't think they are intentionally promoting an affiliate or know that it is happening. When most people share a link, they simply copy and paste the entire link. Only a tiny fraction of internet users how to interpret a URL and its query strings. People are unwittingly passing along affiliate links that were already in the URL.



In the face of the conflict that originated the other day when I "hit" a link from Aliexpress, I wanted to say the following:

- I do not have or have had any relationship with any seller, or Aliexpress or Spain, where I live.

- I had no idea of the possible consequences that could have "hit" a link.

- The only reason to do it has been because there have been confusions with respect to the famous Graphene and its different versions. The only thing I did was to put the "my" graphene link so there would be no doubt.


I'm sorry if that could bother some, it was not my intention to contravene the rules of HF.

I am a simple friky of the headphones like all of you and my intention was only to help a partner.

Thank you very much to those who in some way have defended the situation because from the first moment you understood that there was no interest in it.


----------



## HungryPanda

No amp/dac you are blocked from higher listening. A plain and simple fact. I am sorry


----------



## SweetEars

HungryPanda said:


> No amp/dac you are blocked from higher listening. A plain and simple fact. I am sorry


what are the differences>


----------



## SweetEars (Dec 8, 2017)

eaglesgift said:


> It's not the sort of music I normally listen to so it's hard for me to say if it sounds like it should or not. Maybe you can say what it is you are wanting to judge? Imaging seems good, separation is good. Vocals sound nice, sweet, possibly a little on the thin side but maybe that's how they were recorded. A little sibilant when the guys sing a bit of backing vocals towards the end of the song. Drum beat is deep and kind of muffled sounding; again, maybe that's how it's supposed to sound! I found it difficult to focus on the music all the way through but I can tell you the girl was wearing a short, leopard print skirt, knee-high black boots and some sort of gold braid around her stomach when she was laying on top of the car
> 
> Edit: Actually the vocals don't sound thin on iPad. First time I listened on PC with Creative USB sound card that I think has crazy high output impedance and it makes things sound a bit boomy and unbalanced.



Its by the musician AR Rahman. his music is not the stuff u hear everyday as it defies classification.


Thanks for the impression. u can try this and tell me . its a highly articulated song by AR Rahman


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 8, 2017)

HungryPanda said:


> No amp/dac you are blocked from higher listening. A plain and simple fact. I am sorry


Technically he does use a dac and amp... just the basic internal one in his computer/phone. Whether it’s any good or not is the point though, most internal computer components measure decently but noise from other components can be an issue but obviously a higher grade dac and amp will measurebly improve the overall SQ experienced.

I’m really interested in the Oppo HS2 SE as a portable dac amp, but it’s hard to justify the price when I could buy an LG V20 for only slightly more and use that as a DAP with spotify or anything I wanted. As the LG V20 internal components are very impressive and probably at a similar level to the HS2 SE minus a bit of the power that’s not really essential for most earbuds


----------



## SweetEars (Dec 8, 2017)

DagsJT said:


> Any recommendations on an upgrade to the EMX500's that have a better cable? I listen to mostly R&B, rap and rock. Big fan of bass, too much treble hurts my ears but I love the airiness that treble gives. The EMX500 also has a good feeling of making the sound feel like it's around you so anything that recreates that or is better would be great.
> 
> Also my only use will be out of a smartphone, no DAP, so need to be low ohm's. Budget maybe up to £30.




as a good feeling of making the sound feel like it's around you? the new version graphenes may fit the description but the problem is they do not have the detailed nuanced treble, mids and bass of the emx500. The new graphenes have a FM radio like  sound in a large soundstage with a fair bit more brightness and rounded sound in tonality.


----------



## waynes world

SweetEars said:


> what are the differences>



I'll let others expand upon that. If you are happy with what you are hearing, that's ultimately what's important (for you). But when providing impressions/reviews of gear, it's a good idea to mention your audio sources so that others can factor that in, because the audio source/chain can make a huge differences (due to quality of gear, synergy etc).

Btw, I notice that you are indicating which graphenes you are referring to when talking about them. Thanks for doing that


----------



## SweetEars (Dec 8, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> Technically he does use a dac and amp... just the basic internal one in his computer/phone. Whether it’s any good or not is the point though, most internal computer components measure decently but noise from other components can be an issue but obviously a higher grade dac and amp will measurebly improve the overall SQ experienced.



i only own the new version graphenes ( 10-22000hz) which according to some forumners here uses a different driver from the original graphenes

 i have initially considered getting an amp or DAC but dropped that idea as i came across some online discussions by users  that say that they did not notice much difference in SQ between the internal sound card and a dedicated amp/DAC.

as far by i can tell u realtek and Conexant smart audio HD are one of the common embedded sound cards in laptops and PCs. I have used creative live  sound card ( late 1990s)  realtek (2008) and conexant (2016)

the  conexant  sound card by far seems to be better than the realtek  in terms of articulation positioning and imaging and clarity, good for movies but the Realtek has better musical quality and a forward mid sound and depth and they  resemble  creative sound blaster live card in brightness . as all  are from different time periods in PC hardware so it's not a fair comparison...but all of them mostly sound alike and are capable of the same sound quality  formats


----------



## eaglesgift

PacoBdn said:


> In the face of the conflict that originated the other day when I "hit" a link from Aliexpress, I wanted to say the following:
> 
> - I do not have or have had any relationship with any seller, or Aliexpress or Spain, where I live.
> 
> ...


Speaking for myself, I wasn't referring to any links that you posted - I didn't notice them. Probably best we just put this topic to bed now - I only mentioned it in the first place because I genuinely wondered whether it was allowed and then later read the rules and saw that it wasn't. It was not my intention to start some kind of witch hunt or to have a long-running debate about it (but I did want to reply to your post because it seems like you might think I was referring to you, which I wasn't).


----------



## eaglesgift (Dec 8, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> i only own the new version graphenes ( 10-22000hz) which according to some forumners here uses a different driver from the original graphenes
> 
> i have initially considered getting an amp or DAC but dropped that idea as i came across some online discussions by users  that say that they did not notice much difference in SQ between the internal sound card and a dedicated amp/DAC.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure whether different operating systems make any difference but I have a VIA HD audio chip in my dekstop PC (WIndows 10) and whatever integrated audio chip that Lenovo use in their low-end laptops in my Lenovo G485 (Xubuntu 17.10) and the laptop sounds sweet when plugging into the headphone output while the desktop sounds very ordinary. I like the laptop headphone output as much as my Cayin N3 and Shanling M1.


----------



## waynes world

eaglesgift said:


> I'm not sure whether different operating systems make any difference but I have a VIA HD audio chip in my dekstop PC (WIndows 10) and whatever integrated audio chip that Lenovo use in their low-end laptops in my Lenovo G485 (Xubuntu 17.10) and the laptop sounds sweet when plugging into the headphone output while the desktop sounds very ordinary. I like the laptop headphone output as much as my Cayin N3 and Shanling M1.



My 2012 x220 has a "Conexant 20672 SmartAudio HD" card. I haven't listened directly out of it forever, so I thought I'd give it a try. It actually sounded pretty good (I'm surprised).


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 8, 2017)

waynes world said:


> My 2012 x220 has a "Conexant 20672 SmartAudio HD" card. I haven't listened directly out of it forever, so I thought I'd give it a try. It actually sounded pretty good (I'm surprised).


Most desktops have decent dac amps it’s just the noise interference that usually sucks.

The issue with buying high quality external dac amps is the cost is pretty high for the gain in quality you get from medium grade gear. If you’re serious about the best audio you need a high end dac amp or dap no question but most of us choose convince over a full size setup.

That’s where devices like the LG V20/30 and mid range DAPs come in handy, relatively (very) good audio and very convinient to use. Maybe 85-90% at a guess of what you can get out of a 600 setup and portable.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Most desktops have decent dac amps it’s just the noise interference that usually sucks.
> 
> The issue with buying high quality external dac amps is the cost is pretty high for the gain in quality you get from medium grade gear. If you’re serious about the best audio you need a high end dac amp or dap no question but most of us choose convince over a full size setup.



Desktop versus Mobile. My laptop serves as my desktop source, and it pretty much sits there, so I wouldn't mind having a good dap/amp permanently there as well (and it's more about $$$ than anything). Someday I'd like to go for something like the Grace m9XX Dac/Amp, but for now I make due with my zuperdac & various portable amps.



> That’s where devices like the LG V20/30 and mid range DAPs come in handy, relatively (very) good audio and very convinient to use. Maybe 85-90% at a guess of what you can get out of a 600 setup and portable.



Yup. LG probably would have pried me away from Samsung if they had the higher level DACs in their North American offerings.


----------



## lyrean (Dec 8, 2017)

DagsJT said:


> Any recommendations on an upgrade to the EMX500's that have a better cable? I listen to mostly R&B, rap and rock. Big fan of bass, too much treble hurts my ears but I love the airiness that treble gives. The EMX500 also has a good feeling of making the sound feel like it's around you so anything that recreates that or is better would be great.
> 
> Also my only use will be out of a smartphone, no DAP, so need to be low ohm's. Budget maybe up to £30.



I wouldn't recommend the new Graphenes. These are great, they resemble EMX500 but some say they are better: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4...e-MX500-style-earphone-3-5mm/32820438211.html

These could be one option also but I haven't tried them: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...arplugs-Headset-Metal-Earbud/32807549451.html


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 8, 2017)

There was an lg v20 on ebay second hand but in good condition for €170 which i’ve been eyeing for a few days as my portable source.

It’s locked to one carrier but I don’t mind that, i’ll be using it solely as a DAP for now.

I cannot see a better option under 200 with the ability to play spotify and youtube with ease...

I just bought it before someone else did. The price was too good. Hope it gets to me before christmas as it’s only across the pond in England. I’ll consider it an early christmas present to myself xD

I’m not usually an impulsive buyer but I really wanted a new source and wasn’t fancying the idea of spending 500 or such on a DAP with spotify...

If anyone else is considering this device I’ll be the test dummy and let you know my impressions first lol


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> There was an lg v20 on ebay second hand but in good condition for €170 which i’ve been eyeing for a few days as my portable source.
> 
> It’s locked to one carrier but I don’t mind that, i’ll be using it solely as a DAP for now.
> 
> ...



If you were happy with your iphone6 as a dap, then you could have gotten a diminutive bluetooth device like the Fiio BTR1 for streaming duties, and saved some bulk and weight. Having said that, yes, I'm very interested in your guinea pigging duties lol (I will be interested in how the V20 compares to your iphone6 and iphone6/hifimediy combo).

Btw, I personally have NEVER made an impulse buy...



Spoiler: I lie...






waynes world said:


> I'd like to get a "bluetooth earbud" setup as a gift to me on 11/11. Now I just have to decide between the Svara L for $55 or the **** PT15 for a whopping $8. Or maybe something else. Although I like bass, based on your descriptions I think that the **** PT15 might be the best bet. Also it's dirt cheap lol.
> 
> I'll probably also get the NiceHCK HB1 bluetooth cable for $33 that @chinmie mentioned.
> edit: that cable looks pretty good actually.
> ...






Sadly, I don't think it's going to work for me due to the cable being over ears design (and the buds simply do not stay in my ear) 
Also, the Fiio BTR1 has made it somewhat irrelevant for me.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 8, 2017)

waynes world said:


> If you were happy with your iphone6 as a dap, then you could have gotten a diminutive bluetooth device like the Fiio BTR1 for streaming duties, and saved some bulk and weight. Having said that, yes, I'm very interested in your guinea pigging duties lol (I will be interested in how the V20 compares to your iphone6 and iphone6/hifimediy combo).
> 
> Btw, I personally have NEVER made an impulse buy...
> 
> ...


I’m only mildly satisfied with my 6s. It’s clear and pretty detailed but it just lacks some weight behind it, also the low end is only mediocre and the soundstage/separation isn’t amazing.

The v20 should be considerably better overall judging from many opinions i’ve seen. Also it will drive my buds better as it’s powerful as far as mobile devices go.


----------



## SweetEars

lyrean said:


> I wouldn't recommend the new Graphenes. These are great, they resemble EMX500 but some say they are better: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4...e-MX500-style-earphone-3-5mm/32820438211.html
> 
> These could be one option also but I haven't tried them: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...arplugs-Headset-Metal-Earbud/32807549451.html



I have have both the R4YS ... but prefer the EMX500..


----------



## SweetEars

This song BY AR Rahman will prove how superior the EMX500 is in articulation compared to the new graphenes (10-22000hz).

u can try and see for yrself


----------



## mbwilson111

@SweetEars seems like you have changed your mind since your review.  Should I not be happy that my new graphenes will probably arrive tomorrow?


----------



## SweetEars

eaglesgift said:


> I'm not sure whether different operating systems make any difference but I have a VIA HD audio chip in my dekstop PC (WIndows 10) and whatever integrated audio chip that Lenovo use in their low-end laptops in my Lenovo G485 (Xubuntu 17.10) and the laptop sounds sweet when plugging into the headphone output while the desktop sounds very ordinary. I like the laptop headphone output as much as my Cayin N3 and Shanling M1.





waynes world said:


> My 2012 x220 has a "Conexant 20672 SmartAudio HD" card. I haven't listened directly out of it forever, so I thought I'd give it a try. It actually sounded pretty good (I'm surprised).





seanc6441 said:


> Most desktops have decent dac amps it’s just the noise interference that usually sucks.
> 
> The issue with buying high quality external dac amps is the cost is pretty high for the gain in quality you get from medium grade gear. If you’re serious about the best audio you need a high end dac amp or dap no question but most of us choose convince over a full size setup.
> 
> That’s where devices like the LG V20/30 and mid range DAPs come in handy, relatively (very) good audio and very convinient to use. Maybe 85-90% at a guess of what you can get out of a 600 setup and portable.




In laptops the quality of the embedded soundcard may be better than desktops which sometimes come with crappy ones because unlike the desktop , laptops sound card cant be upgraded. 

In my windows properties,it say Conexant SmartAudio HD. I am not sure which version. But  It is better in the reproduction of sound and  tonal qualities than the realtek which sounds more  warm and bright.
I believe Realtek , conexant are at least equivalaent to a $50-$100 AMP/ DAC....


----------



## SweetEars

mbwilson111 said:


> @SweetEars seems like you have changed your mind since your review.  Should I not be happy that my new graphenes will probably arrive tomorrow?


i changed my review for better accuracy and depth  because they changed in sound after a few days of usage and more testing revealed more results.


----------



## Rendster

Emx-500 is also better than the RY4s with UE cable?(braided) I have ordered a graphene last month but it has yet to arrive. I wonder if its the new graphene that i would have.


----------



## SweetEars (Dec 8, 2017)

eaglesgift said:


> I'm not sure whether different operating systems make any difference but I have a VIA HD audio chip in my dekstop PC (WIndows 10) and whatever integrated audio chip that Lenovo use in their low-end laptops in my Lenovo G485 (Xubuntu 17.10) and the laptop sounds sweet when plugging into the headphone output while the desktop sounds very ordinary. I like the laptop headphone output as much as my Cayin N3 and Shanling M1.


the operating systems sometimes has bugs and other driver issues which can diminish the quality of the sound card output. Windows 95 and  7 generally had the best sound until recently windows 10 latest version matched up to the quality.
windows 10 for long time had  sound issues but i think they are resolved now. If u dont want any problems do not use the beta versions of windows 10 . just wait for a  official release to install.


----------



## SweetEars

the new graphenes may sound good on their own if u never heard the EMX500.. or any similar ones.


----------



## SweetEars

Rendster said:


> Emx-500 is also better than the RY4s with UE cable?(braided) I have ordered a graphene last month but it has yet to arrive. I wonder if its the new graphene that i would have.


EMX 500 slightly better in air and depth ..R4YS slightly more clear in presentation  is  but these hardly noticeable to the untrained ear ..


----------



## seanc6441

SweetEars said:


> In laptops the quality of the embedded soundcard may be better than desktops which sometimes come with crappy ones because unlike the desktop , laptops sound card cant be upgraded.
> 
> In my windows properties,it say Conexant SmartAudio HD. I am not sure which version. But  It is better in the reproduction of sound and  tonal qualities than the realtek which sounds more  warm and bright.
> I believe Realtek , conexant are at least equivalaent to a $50-$100 AMP/ DAC....


Depends on the desktop, if the motherboard is expensive enough sometimes you get a higher grade of dac onboard, some of the gaming/professional computers or self built units with high end boards have nice dacs, it’s just noise from components poorly shielded that results in less than desirable SQ at times. It’s not always the case though and that’s why some pc’s may sound great.


----------



## SweetEars

try the AR Rahman song i posted it  will show a clear difference between the EMX500 and the new graphenes


----------



## SweetEars

seanc6441 said:


> Depends on the desktop, if the motherboard is expensive enough sometimes you get a higher grade of dac onboard, some of the gaming/professional computers or self built units with high end boards have nice dacs, it’s just noise from components poorly shielded that results in less than desirable SQ at times. It’s not always the case though and that’s why some pc’s may sound great.


I am yet  to know the differences with regard to the noise u are referring to. As i have never used a dedicated DAC. maybe u did notice it? did u?


----------



## SweetEars

seanc6441 said:


> I’m only mildly satisfied with my 6s. It’s clear and pretty detailed but it just lacks some weight behind it, also the low end is only mediocre and the soundstage/separation isn’t amazing.
> 
> The v20 should be considerably better overall judging from many opinions i’ve seen. Also it will drive my buds better as it’s powerful as far as mobile devices go.


i have iphone 6  and used the emx500 on both the laptop Conexant sound card.. i prefer the sound of the Conexant. the conexant has great synergy with the EMX500. The MONks had great synergy with realtek


----------



## seanc6441

SweetEars said:


> I am yet  to know the differences with regard to the noise u are referring to. As i have never used a dedicated DAC. maybe u did notice it? did u?


I’m more talking about the general opinion of onboard dac’s which are criticised for not having a ‘black’ or silent background sometimes due to components not being shielded as well as on a dedicated dac amp.

It may be a low background hiss, usually more audible on high sensitivity iems/buds especially at higher volumes. Even some dacs are criticised for noise but it’s not quiet as severe as on some pc’s/laptops. Of course this isn’t the case for all pc’s. If you have one that sounds ‘good’ (subjective obviously) and you cannot hear any hissing on quieter tracks then you’re probably all good but aside from sound quality noise is a general issue raised with pc audio.


----------



## SweetEars

just to note the realtek i have is from 2008 . i also had the chance to try out newer realtek models. But did not find much differences in SQ.
I believe they are all in the "in between average to excellent" SQ quality category


----------



## SweetEars

seanc6441 said:


> I’m more talking about the general opinion of onboard dac’s which are criticised for not having a ‘black’ or silent background sometimes due to components not being shielded as well as on a dedicated dac amp.
> 
> It may be a low background hiss, usually more audible on high sensitivity iems/buds especially at higher volumes. Even some dacs are criticised for noise but it’s not quiet as severe as on some pc’s/laptops. Of course this isn’t the case for all pc’s. If you have one that sounds ‘good’ (subjective obviously) and you cannot hear any hissing on quieter tracks then you’re probably all good but aside from sound quality noise is a general issue raised with pc audio.


yeah i did notice this hiss or background sound u referring in  the old  realtek but it is hardly noticeable  or distracts the sound in any way. DId not notice it in the conexant.


----------



## seanc6441

SweetEars said:


> yeah i did notice this hiss or background sound u referring in  the old  realtek but it is hardly noticeable  or distracts the sound in any way. DId not notice it in the conexant.


well for some people if the background is not dead silent or ‘black’ as they say, it takes away from the overall SQ. It makes sense as the music would not sound as crisp and defined.

Like how listening to earbuds in a loud environment just sucks lol


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 8, 2017)

If you’re wondering if an upgrade in dac/amp shows noticeable improvements id say yes... but it’s not proportional to the cost increase. The €70 i spent on the hifime sabre dac was apperantly not enough! And it’s not guaranteed that your buds or sound preferences will agree with the new source.

I’m going to return my hifime sabre dac i got on amazon. I’m not loving the sound now, it didn’t withstand the test of time I guess and the praise I gave it was short lived as switching between my laptop and it was suprisingly not a big upgrade at all.

There’s something about it I dislike, the sound appears warm and lively but it’s quiet empty and lacking weight behind it. My laptops internal dac actually provided more body but slightly less detail so it’s abit disappointing.

So ive decided to return it, bought the lg v20 as my new ‘DAP’ and will see how that goes. Maybe I expect too much, we’ll see!


----------



## SweetEars (Dec 9, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> If you’re wondering if an upgrade in dac/amp shows noticeable improvements id say yes... but it’s not proportional to the cost increase.
> 
> And it’s not guaranteed that your buds or sound preferences will agree with the new source.
> 
> ...



in my experience between these 3

Soundblaster live (1999) : sound is bright and wide with precise positioning and imaging . SOund is flatter . Depth is average  and not fantastic. details is good. Articulation is pretty average. soundstage is pretty good.mostly wide. Clarity is average

Realtek  ( 2008)  : bright, warm and  wide with good wide soundstage and details. bit harsh but  imaging is just average.  Articulation, body  and depth is average. Clarity is not fantastic 

Conexant (2016) : Better tonality ,  fluidity , articulation depth and transparency and overall soundstage expand all ways. imaging and details is slightly better than  Realtek. Slightly more darker signature but treble is more sparkly. Clarity is better than the others.


----------



## SweetEars

*Audio master: The lasting brilliance of AR Rahman’s ‘Dil Se’*
*The score for Mani Ratnam’s terrorism-themed thriller has no lows, only highs.*
by  Manish Gaekwad
Published Oct 31, 2015 · 11:58 am Updated Jan 03, 2017 · 03:00 pm.
_







When students of the Berklee Indian Ensemble performed for AR Rahman at a concert in his honour, they began their performance with a song that filled the auditorium with deafening hosannas – it almost drowned out the voices of the singers and musicians on stage. The song was Chaiyya Chaiyya from Dil Se (1998). It remains one of his most popular songs, and not just in the country. The track has been featured in the Hollywood film Inside Man and in the American TV shows Smith and CSI: Miami.

All this from a flop film.






Despite its poor reception at the box-office, Dil Se has acquired a cult following over the years that is both a gift and a curse for the film’s music director. Rahman’s score is considered a milestone, and almost everything he has done after it is measured by the standard of whether it is as good as Dil Se.

Rahman has certainly done enough. Among his top ten soundtracks in Hindi films are Roja, Bombay, Rangeela, Taal, Lagaan, Rang De Basanti, Guru, Delhi-6, Slumdog Millionaire and Rockstar. But none of these soundtracks has an all-songs hit rate like Dil Se. There are no highs and lows with Dil Se, no dips and crescendos. All the songs are trailblazing masterpieces in terms of musical arrangements and the poetic lyrics by way of Gulzar, all set by director Mani Ratnam to fabulous visuals. Ratnam was inspired to shoot the songs in the most trying conditions – atop a train or even a precariously lodged monastery in Ladakh.

Fans of Rahman's music have even put up the background score of Dil Se on YouTube. Connoisseurs will agree that not enough has been written about Rahman’s background music, which is equally or sometimes even better than some of his songs, but we’ll hold that discussion for another time.

Here’s why you should re-visit the soundtrack of Dil Se.

*Chaiyya Chaiyya/ Thaiyya Thaiyya *Sukhwinder Singh singing Chaiyya Chaiyya as Thaiyya Thaiyya, originally written by Sufi poet Baba Bulleh Shah in Punjabi and re-imagined by Gulzar in Hindi and Vairamuthu in Tamil. The chugging, locomotive spirit of the visuals and the forward-seeking drum beat create a pulsating energy, rhythm and tempo that will not allow you to remain motionless.






The song is believed to have influenced Danish filmmaker Lars von Trier to shoot Bjork in an sequence for Dancer In The Dark (2000).






*Ae Ajnabi *Perhaps the only other track in Rahman’s oeuvre that can match its melancholy is Tu Hi Re (Bombay, 1995). That Sukhwinder Singh won a Best Playback Filmfare trophy for Chaiyya Chaiyya and not Udit Narayan for this soulful number is a contestable idea.






*Jiya Jale *Lata Mangeshkar’s voice does not age one bit. For a change, this version by the Berklee students introduces the instruments that created the melody.






*Satrangi Re *Mirza Ghalib’s couplet, “Ishq par zor nahi, hai yeh woh aatish Ghalib, jo lagaye na lage aur bujhaye na bane” (There is no force over love, it is that triumphant fire Ghalib, it cannot be sparked off easily nor burns once extinguished) sung by Kavita Krishnamurthy in a deep, husky tone luring a high-pitched Sonu Nigam is a mesmering siren call. Rahman uses all the instruments in his armour – flutes, drums, pipes – to create an exotic blend of eastern and western influences that is dervish in spirit and hypnotic to the untrained ear.






*Dil Se Re *The title track in Rahman’s early voice (when it did justice to the song) with Anuradha Sriram, Anupama and Febi Mani backing him on chorus is indubitably what Rahman excels at – a rock song at heart throbbing with a searing intensity hard to ignore.





We welcome your comments at letters@scroll.in._


----------



## gazzington

Well I bought myself some Blur 魔音 for a present for myself. These will go with the sony a35 I'm getting for Xmas. Happy days


----------



## noknok23

I received the Samsara since a couple of days. I finally get a sense of what "lush mids" means. In that way, most earbuds mids sounds kind of bright next to these
To me the samsara remind me of campfred or eking for its analog-ness, addictive and authoritative sub bass. But still with the technicity of chinese "factory build" earphones, if that make sense. Treble is clear and fast, (perhaps a bit grainy? Not sure but maybe less resolution in the treble than other parts).  Mids are very inviting, bass and subass so big for an earbuds (again) with still control and quality. the soundstage is small but imaging excellent to my ears.
Amping is very rewarding with these, they do scale and can be unforgiving with poor source.
the sound is quite energetic and a rather dark colored - it feels like listening to tapes- love it or hate it. Imo it's a very nice complement if you have some earbuds that are kind of polite and flat. (me i have the ps600)
the build quality is excellent and the most fancy earbuds i own with the blurs.
if you can grab them for around 100usd it's a no brainer imo.


----------



## lyrean

SweetEars said:


> I have have both the R4YS ... but prefer the EMX500..



Ok. I have R4YS with braided cable and I think it's great for edm, hiphop, metal and modern rock music. I haven't tried EMX500 yet though.


----------



## mbwilson111

NICEHCK DIY Graphene buds are in the house!


----------



## j4100

gazzington said:


> Well I bought myself some Blur 魔音 for a present for myself. These will go with the sony a35 I'm getting for Xmas. Happy days



Nice one. I'm biding my time, having a listen to the stuff I have before deciding the next step. Thinking Blur / Zen / Cypherus / Lyra / maybe something else?



noknok23 said:


> I received the Samsara since a couple of days. I finally get a sense of what "lush mids" means. In that way, most earbuds mids sounds kind of bright next to these
> To me the samsara remind me of campfred or eking for its analog-ness, addictive and authoritative sub bass. But still with the technicity of chinese "factory build" earphones, if that make sense. Treble is clear and fast, (perhaps a bit grainy? Not sure but maybe less resolution in the treble than other parts).  Mids are very inviting, bass and subass so big for an earbuds (again) with still control and quality. the soundstage is small but imaging excellent to my ears.
> Amping is very rewarding with these, they do scale and can be unforgiving with poor source.
> the sound is quite energetic and a rather dark colored - it feels like listening to tapes- love it or hate it. Imo it's a very nice complement if you have some earbuds that are kind of polite and flat. (me i have the ps600)
> ...



I had a listen to mine after getting them and suddenly felt quite disappointed in the sound, but after a little burn-in, they seemed to kick it up a gear. Was listening to them for a little while last night and was impressed. I would agree with your synopsis. I'm going to burn them a little longer.



mbwilson111 said:


> NICEHCK DIY Graphene buds are in the house!


What's your player in it's little dayglo jacket?


----------



## doggiemom

Dark Helmet said:


> You can buy it from whoever gives you the best price. I'm not sure that there are variances in the Samsara from seller to seller. I had to send 2 of them back as the first unit I had had a driver issue and the second had bubbles in the finish. Hopefully the third time is a charm. Look at Nicehck and ask for a better deal. Hope that helps.


NichHCK's did not come with the wood case.  The set I got from AK Audio came with the wood case.


----------



## doggiemom

SweetEars said:


> *Audio master: The lasting brilliance of AR Rahman’s ‘Dil Se’*
> *The score for Mani Ratnam’s terrorism-themed thriller has no lows, only highs.*
> by  Manish Gaekwad
> Published Oct 31, 2015 · 11:58 am Updated Jan 03, 2017 · 03:00 pm.
> _._


Could you please chill with the AR Rahman video and article links?  It is difficult to find discussion about _earbuds_ while having to scroll through all the pictures and video links.  One or two would have been okay, but it has gotten to be too much.  Thanks.


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> What's your player in it's little dayglo jacket?



That is my Cayin N3 stacked with a Topping NX1s amp.  That case which come with the N3 is more of a true red in most lighting... not quite so orangy.   It is made of silicone and matches whichever color player you buy (red, cyan or black).  I really like it..., the player and the case.  The little amp is only a few days old... I got it to experiment with using my higher impedance headphones with the Cayin because the Cayin has become my favorite most used player.  In my profile you will see what else I have.  I probably don't need the amp with the graphenes but a little extra power never hurts.  It had set it up like that because I had received the EB200 yesterday and figured they would need some driving power.  There are, of course, more powerful amps.  I just like how small and light this one is.  New toy.

I have not listened with the graphenes yet... they only arrived a couple of hours ago and I have been busy with a few things... including taking photographs  They are the new graphenes.  I do expect to like them despite what a couple of people have said..  They look pretty.  The cable is nice.  The red foams were already on them when they arrived... in their nice  NiceHKC case.

Now... time to make a cup of tea and listen to some music!


----------



## mbwilson111

doggiemom said:


> Could you please chill with the AR Rahman video and article links?  It is difficult to find discussion about _earbuds_ while having to scroll through all the pictures and video links.  One or two would have been okay, but it has gotten to be too much.  Thanks.



Thank you.  You are not alone.  There is a thread for those things... I will find it...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wha...ease-read-them.253245/page-5103#post-13892483


----------



## seanc6441

Oh it’s an NX1s amp, I have one of those that I don’t have a use for and was thinking of selling it along with my fiio i1 iphone dac.

If anyone is interested I’ll list it in a day or two, just never got around to it yet!


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 9, 2017)

mbwilson111 said:


> That is my Cayin N3 stacked with a Topping NX1s amp.  That case which come with the N3 is more of a true red in most lighting... not quite so orangy.   It is made of silicone and matches whichever color player you buy (red, cyan or black).  I really like it..., the player and the case.  The little amp is only a few days old... I got it to experiment with using my higher impedance headphones with the Cayin because the Cayin has become my favorite most used player.  In my profile you will see what else I have.  I probably don't need the amp with the graphenes but a little extra power never hurts.  It had set it up like that because I had received the EB200 yesterday and figured they would need some driving power.  There are, of course, more powerful amps.  I just like how small and light this one is.  New toy.
> 
> I have not listened with the graphenes yet... they only arrived a couple of hours ago and I have been busy with a few things... including taking photographs  They are the new graphenes.  I do expect to like them despite what a couple of people have said..  They look pretty.  The cable is nice.  The red foams were already on them when they arrived... in their nice  NiceHKC case.
> 
> Now... time to make a cup of tea and listen to some music!


If you wanna test out the midrange/vocals (a criticism of the original graphene’s by me and some others) may I suggest the album* Sun Leads Me On - Half Moon Run *which I think will really test the midrange and timbre of the graphene’s and vocals also. Plus it’s (imo) a very good album released this year (or last year?).

Either way giveus your impressions of the new graphene buds when you get a chance


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> If you wanna test out the midrange/vocals (a criticism of the original graphene’s by me and some others) may I suggest the album* Sun Leads Me On - Half Moon Run *which I think will really test the midrange and timbre of the graphene’s and vocals also. Plus it’s (imo) a very good album released this year (or last year?).
> 
> Either way giveus your impressions of the new graphene buds when you get a chance



Thanks for the tip.  I am always more interested in finding new music than in finding new gear.  Just googled.  Definitely the type of band that I tend to like.  I will check them out when I can.  Meanwhile I have more than enough to choose from.  Just know that if these graphenes are good, I will just get lost in the music and will not be thinking of mids, highs, lows...timbre of course will influence that but as I am not a trained musician, I will not be able to actually describe it.


----------



## jogawag

*Sun Leads Me On - Half Moon Run*


----------



## bloodyf8 (Dec 9, 2017)

I just realized the earbuds stick to each other perhaps the magnetic effect on the driver, I put all my earbud in one plastic container and I realize all my earbuds stick to each other, does it will causing bad effect to my earbud for long term? sorry for stupid question , it just bothered me (why i didnt put separetly? because there isnt enough space)


----------



## jogawag

The same thing happens with one Earbuds, is not it?
So I think that you do not have to worry about that.


----------



## bloodyf8

jogawag said:


> The same thing happens with one Earbuds, is not it?
> So I think that you do not have to worry about that.


 one earbud if i put it closer R and L they push off not stick each other


----------



## jogawag

bloodyf8 said:


> one earbud if i put it closer R and L they push off not stick each other


So, if you invert the orientation of one, will not you stick?


----------



## bloodyf8

jogawag said:


> So, if you invert the orientation of one, will not you stick?


thanks i would try


----------



## seanc6441

bloodyf8 said:


> I just realized the earbuds stick to each other perhaps the magnetic effect on the driver, I put all my earbud in one plastic container and I realize all my earbuds stick to each other, does it will causing bad effect to my earbud for long term? sorry for stupid question , it just bothered me (why i didnt put separetly? because there isnt enough space)


I don’t think there’s any problem with that, happens to me with all drivers especially headphone drivers, never had an issue with the sound after.


----------



## vladstef (Dec 9, 2017)

bloodyf8 said:


> I just realized the earbuds stick to each other perhaps the magnetic effect on the driver, I put all my earbud in one plastic container and I realize all my earbuds stick to each other, does it will causing bad effect to my earbud for long term? sorry for stupid question , it just bothered me (why i didnt put separetly? because there isnt enough space)



Dynamic drivers have a magnet and one electromagnet (the coil wire that is connected to the membrane). When there is no electricity going through wires, those wires do not behave as a magnet, meaning that any other magnet can not do anything to it, aside from regular metal in magnet field interaction which is negligible.
When you put 2 dynamic drivers close, their magnets react depending on the distance, but membranes do not move and therefore nothing can be damaged (this goes when music isn't playing). If music is playing then it's more complicated but the only realistic thing with earbuds is the slight change in the sound while 2 drivers are very close because membrane's electromagnet is in 2 magnetic fields which is obviously not intended.


----------



## silverfishla

I am really enjoying the Moondrop Nameless earbuds that I received a few days ago as one of my 11.11 purchases.  After a days worth of burn in, they are quite impressive for the cash.  A really wide and spacious sound presentation and very life-like representation of vocals and instruments.
Doesn’t even take a second to get into “head space” with these.  If this is any indication of the Moondrop sound, I’m heading straight down Liebshlibelllllied (or whatever’s) street!


----------



## Dark Helmet

I have a pair on order along with a Tin T2 and another pair of Graphne's.


----------



## waynes world (Dec 9, 2017)

I think I mentioned this before, but I am really enjoying the Seahf 150C's off of the Walut V2 (Burson v5i opamp). Just a beautiful sound.



Spoiler: Pic..










A tune that I'm enjoying with the combo at the moment...



Spoiler: Elbow, Little Fictions..



Elbow, Little Fictions (sorry, couldn't find a higher quality recording)


----------



## theoutsider

silverfishla said:


> I am really enjoying the Moondrop Nameless earbuds that I received a few days ago as one of my 11.11 purchases.  After a days worth of burn in, they are quite impressive for the cash.  A really wide and spacious sound presentation and very life-like representation of vocals and instruments.
> Doesn’t even take a second to get into “head space” with these.  If this is any indication of the Moondrop sound, I’m heading straight down Liebshlibelllllied (or whatever’s) street!


At least you figured your upgrade path


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> I don't want to encourage you any more than you do yourself but FAAEAL Snow-lotus 2.0 64 ohm, K's 300 and the EBX are getting a lot of use at the moment



Don't lie - you love encouraging me!

If I have it right, the K's 300 and EBX are currently out of my budget. That leaves the very affordable FAAEAL's. Are they a worthy addition to the old graphenes and 150C's?


----------



## HungryPanda

waynes world said:


> Don't lie - you love encouraging me!
> 
> If I have it right, the K's 300 and EBX are currently out of my budget. That leaves the very affordable FAAEAL's. Are they a worthy addition to the old graphenes and 150C's?


 They are different, have a bassier signature but sound very good


----------



## silverfishla

waynes world said:


> I think I mentioned this before, but I am really enjoying the Seahf 150C's off of the Walut V2 (Burson v5i opamp). Just a beautiful sound.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I also received a pair of Seahf, but the 32ohm ones.  I think those are pretty great sounding as well.  Really well rounded.  There's been so much talk about the Graphene's (which I have and love) and the Mx500 (I have and like) that I feel that there are so many other ones that get overlooked just for the simple fact that people don't have them.  People please, Graphene's and MX500 are not the end all be all!  Live a little, carve your own path...waste your own money!!!!  And then let us all know which ones are good and which are bad.  Gets kind of boring talking about 2 buds like they are the Bee's knees.


----------



## SweetEars

i see something called MX500 on aliexpress.. i assume its different from the EMX500?


----------



## RodRevenge

You guys enjoying your 11.11 buds while im here waiting for an order i made on Oct 19th. (


----------



## mbwilson111 (Dec 9, 2017)

RodRevenge said:


> You guys enjoying your 11.11 buds while im here waiting for an order i made on Oct 19th. (



How frustrating.  I hope they arrive soon.  What is it that you ordered?


----------



## silverfishla

SweetEars said:


> i see something called MX500 on aliexpress.. i assume its different from the EMX500?


I think they are the same.


----------



## waynes world (Dec 9, 2017)

silverfishla said:


> I also received a pair of Seahf, but the 32ohm ones.  I think those are pretty great sounding as well.  Really well rounded.  There's been so much talk about the Graphene's (which I have and love) and the Mx500 (I have and like) that I feel that there are so many other ones that get overlooked just for the simple fact that people don't have them.  People please, Graphene's and MX500 are not the end all be all!  Live a little, carve your own path...waste your own money!!!!  And then let us all know which ones are good and which are bad.  Gets kind of boring talking about 2 buds like they are the Bee's knees.



Guilty as charged - I'm probably responsible for a fair amount of the old graphene hype, but hungrypanda is responsible for that I think. And I'm gonna blame hungrypanda for my current 150C hyping as well. While I'm at it, I might as well blame him for my upcoming snow lotus 2.0's lol!

I see you hyping your namelessnesses. How do they compare to the old graphenes? And who do you have to blame for them???


----------



## RodRevenge

mbwilson111 said:


> How frustrating.  I hope they arrive soon.  What is it that you ordered?


The seahf AWK-F64, im also waiting for the Graphenes (old), the Ry4S and my zuperdac but oh well those are all 11.11 and bithday 11.10 (zuperdac) so i expect them much later, living in Mexico sucks apparently.


----------



## rkw (Dec 9, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> i see something called MX500 on aliexpress.. i assume its different from the EMX500?


The original MX500 earbud was by Sennheiser and discontinued long ago. Many of today's earbuds copy the shell from the original MX500 but the manufacturer installs their own drivers. The MX500 style earbud shell is probably the most popular earbud shell being used today. Many brands still use MX500 as part of the name but it only refers to the shell, not the complete earbud.


----------



## SweetEars

theoutsider said:


> At least you figured your upgrade path



Links to buy then??


----------



## HungryPanda

I have the moondrop nameless and I want to add to the hype, they have a very nice clear neutral sound


----------



## SweetEars

HungryPanda said:


> I have the moondrop nameless and I want to add to the hype, they have a very nice clear neutral sound


I am interested to get them. So how do they compare to the EMX 500 and graphene.


----------



## theoutsider (Dec 10, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> Links to buy then??


https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...3-5mm-Dynamic-Driver/1825606_32815340879.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...-HIFI-13-5mm-Dynamic/1825606_32830971670.html


----------



## SweetEars

theoutsider said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...3-5mm-Dynamic-Driver/1825606_32815340879.html
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...-HIFI-13-5mm-Dynamic/1825606_32830971670.html


which one, one is flagship the other is budget?


----------



## HungryPanda

I have the one in the second link, the budget one


----------



## SweetEars

HungryPanda said:


> I have the one in the second link, the budget one


any review on that?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Dec 10, 2017)

waynes world said:


> I see you hyping your namelessnesses. How do they compare to the old graphenes? And who do you have to blame for them???





HungryPanda said:


> I have the moondrop nameless and I want to add to the hype, they have a very nice clear neutral sound





SweetEars said:


> I am interested to get them. So how do they compare to the EMX 500 and graphene.





SweetEars said:


> any review on that?



I had the Moondrop Nameless for a short time based on some good reviews that are buried somewhere in this thread.  A search within the thread should bring them up.  Unfortunately they did not sit in my ears properly...something related to the shape of the stem part.   When I could hold it in place it sounded great but it kept shifting.  I ended up trading them to my husband for something that fits me better (info is all in my profile).  He has no issue with the fit.  Maybe I am the only one.  Maybe it is because I only starting using buds 4 months ago and am still learning how to seat them.  I find it much easier to put in iems... and to pop on headphones.  Once I do get a bud in right though it is definitely worth it.

Meanwhile, I totally enjoyed a very long listening session with my (new) graphenes...they stayed in place well.  Once again I "accidentally" stayed up almost all night listening while my husband is away on his long night shifts.  It's always "I will just listen to the beginning of this album... for a few minutes"  and then... a few albums later...still listening... lol.    Everything sounds so right with these new graphenes that I could not get them out of my ears. Listening directly out of my Cayin N3 dap.  I removed the amp that was in my picture yesterday.  The Cayin has quite a lot of power on its own.


----------



## SweetEars

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...IY-HiFi-Bass-Headset/2847025_32844067974.html

this looks interesting....


----------



## seanc6441

SweetEars said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...IY-HiFi-Bass-Headset/2847025_32844067974.html
> 
> this looks interesting....


That, my friend, is an IEM.


----------



## groucho69

waynes world said:


> Guilty as charged - I'm probably responsible for a fair amount of the old graphene hype, but hungrypanda is responsible for that I think. And I'm gonna blame hungrypanda for my current 150C hyping as well. While I'm at it, I might as well blame him for my upcoming snow lotus 2.0's lol!
> 
> I see you hyping your namelessnesses. How do they compare to the old graphenes? And who do you have to blame for them???



He may be responsible for your arthritis as well...


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> They are different, have a bassier signature but sound very good



Yoyoyo Mr HungryPanda sir! A few options that I found: option 1 I like due to the L-plug and rubber coated cable. But  there is also option 2 and option 3. If you have the time, please let me know which option you have. Thanks!


----------



## waynes world

groucho69 said:


> He may be responsible for your arthritis as well...



You are right. Arthritis in my "buy now" clicking finger!


----------



## silverfishla

waynes world said:


> Guilty as charged - I'm probably responsible for a fair amount of the old graphene hype, but hungrypanda is responsible for that I think. And I'm gonna blame hungrypanda for my current 150C hyping as well. While I'm at it, I might as well blame him for my upcoming snow lotus 2.0's lol!
> 
> I see you hyping your namelessnesses. How do they compare to the old graphenes? And who do you have to blame for them???


The old Graphenes that I have (you know, before the new ones came out) are...Grapheney sounding.  I kind of don't know how else to describe them.  I mean, full sounding, very energetic, nice bass, crisp highs and clear mids.  A great all-rounder, with no hesitation to recommend.  But they sound "Grapheney", which is not a bad thing, just unique to itself and the PT15 which I also own.  A certain vibrancy that seems to be unique to this material of driver.  The Moondrop Nameless are more traditional sounding.  They have a better (or I might say honest) interpretation of instruments and vocals.  The vocals are drier and sound like a voice singing through a mic and coming through a PA system.  I call that a "coffee house" take on vocals, because they have the ability to sound like a natural human voice and not just part of the production of music.  In that same vein, Nameless does acoustic better and drums better (at least in my opinion of them sounding more lifelike).  You also don't have to shove these into your ears to enjoy them, I find.  It's okay to wear these a bit loose because they have a bit of air in bass.  I also like the design of the Nameless.  Metal, sleek looking.  Little things like a ridge to stop the foams from encompassing the whole backside and making the L and R arms a tiny bit different so you can tell which is which by feeling them and not having to look at them.
Thumbs up to both of these buds though.


----------



## HungryPanda (Dec 10, 2017)

waynes world said:


> Yoyoyo Mr HungryPanda sir! A few options that I found: option 1 I like due to the L-plug and rubber coated cable. But  there is also option 2 and option 3. If you have the time, please let me know which option you have. Thanks!


FAAEAL Snow-lotus 2.0 HIFI Earphone 64Ohms silver plated wire Upgraded version Heavy Bass Sound Earphones  Universal 3.5MM Jack
http://s.aliexpress.com/eaI3YbEV
(from AliExpress Android)[/


----------



## waynes world

silverfishla said:


> The old Graphenes that I have (you know, before the new ones came out) are...Grapheney sounding.  I kind of don't know how else to describe them.  I mean, full sounding, very energetic, nice bass, crisp highs and clear mids.  A great all-rounder, with no hesitation to recommend.  But they sound "Grapheney", which is not a bad thing, just unique to itself and the PT15 which I also own.  A certain vibrancy that seems to be unique to this material of driver.  The Moondrop Nameless are more traditional sounding.  They have a better (or I might say honest) interpretation of instruments and vocals.  The vocals are drier and sound like a voice singing through a mic and coming through a PA system.  I call that a "coffee house" take on vocals, because they have the ability to sound like a natural human voice and not just part of the production of music.  In that same vein, Nameless does acoustic better and drums better (at least in my opinion of them sounding more lifelike).  You also don't have to shove these into your ears to enjoy them, I find.  It's okay to wear these a bit loose because they have a bit of air in bass.  I also like the design of the Nameless.  Metal, sleek looking.  Little things like a ridge to stop the foams from encompassing the whole backside and making the L and R arms a tiny bit different so you can tell which is which by feeling them and not having to look at them.
> Thumbs up to both of these buds though.



I was hoping that whatever you were going to say would make me feel okay with NOT having the nameless, but it hasn't quite worked out that way lol.

Very nice comparison - thanks.



HungryPanda said:


> FAAEAL Snow-lotus 2.0 HIFI Earphone 64Ohms silver plated wire Upgraded version Heavy Bass Sound Earphones  Universal 3.5MM Jack
> http://s.aliexpress.com/eaI3YbEV
> (from AliExpress Android)[/



Thanks! (that was option 1). There goes my arthritic "buy now" finger again!






Knowing it's coming though should give my finger some time to heal (well, in theory).


----------



## HungryPanda

I know turmeric is good for the arthritic joints and music of course


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> I know turmeric is good for the arthritic joints and music of course



Turmeric makes music better?  Okay..... Should I put some in my earbuds?  In my ears?  Inside the player?  Turmeric mod!


----------



## HungryPanda

mbwilson111 said:


> Turmeric makes music better?  Okay..... Should I put some in my earbuds?  In my ears?  Inside the player?  Turmeric mod!



Well it allows for easier clicking of the buy now button and hey presto another nice earbud/ iem/ headphone is on the way


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> Well it allows for easier clicking of the buy now button and hey presto another nice earbud/ iem/ headphone is on the way



Hmmm...maybe no more turmeric for you... have you looked at your list?


----------



## jant71 (Dec 10, 2017)

mbwilson111 said:


> Hmmm...maybe no more turmeric for you... have you looked at your list?



I looked. 22 earbuds. Haven't even reached two dozen yet. Plenty of women have more than 22 pairs of shoes. This is not a problem. We'll let Panda know when it is a problem  If you only need one of these your still good...






Panda, what is the bassiest bud out of the 22??


----------



## mbwilson111 (Dec 10, 2017)

jant71 said:


> I looked. 22 earbuds. Haven't even reached two dozen yet. Plenty of women have more than 22 pairs of shoes. This is not a problem. We'll let Panda know when it is a problem  If you only need one of these your still good...
> 
> Panda, what is the bassiest bud out of the 22??



LOL...but how many iems?  How many headphones?

I know I have too many and have stopped.  I began to feel bad about some great gear that is not getting enough attention.  I want to rediscover some of it.  It's fun.

Btw, my husband has way more shoes than I do!


----------



## HungryPanda

jant71 said:


> I looked. 22 earbuds. Haven't even reached two dozen yet. Plenty of women have more than 22 pairs of shoes. This is not a problem. We'll let Panda know when it is a problem  If you only need one of these your still good...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


K's k600


----------



## jant71

mbwilson111 said:


> LOL...but how many iems?  How many headphones?
> 
> I know I have too many and have stopped.  I began to feel bad about some great gear that is not getting enough attention.  I want to rediscover some of it.  It's fun.
> 
> Btw, my husband has way more shoes than I do!



Oh no! They don't count against each other. Can't do it. Not a true Head-fier if you think you shouldn't buy an earbud because you have enough or even too many in-ears. Separate, separate, separate. This is the earbud thread and Panda has 22. Nothing else matters in here!


----------



## mbwilson111

jant71 said:


> Oh no! They don't count against each other. Can't do it. Not a true Head-fier if you think you shouldn't buy an earbud because you have enough or even too many in-ears. Separate, separate, separate. This is the earbud thread and Panda has 22. Nothing else matters in here!



LOL

Well, I counted mine.  I will have 18 if my MEMT X6 ever arrives..if it ever even ships...if it actually exists.

I was not sure though if my two different color Monks (purple, coffee) should count as one or two...


----------



## HungryPanda

Definitely TWO


----------



## audio123

Penon BS1 Official Review - https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2017/12/10/penon-bs1-official/

Enjoy reading!


----------



## chinmie

i only have joined the headfi for about a year, and I went through buying and sold about 24 earbuds and 8 iems alpng the way...and now i have 14 earbuds and 8 iems, a headphone and an earclips (not counting DAPs and amps). This forum is scary 

i might trim my collections more in the future from the least used ones,but the number seem to stay constant as new earbuds keep popping up


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> This forum is scary



They should post that on the front page of the forum...and, Enter At Your Own Risk


----------



## SweetEars (Dec 10, 2017)

silverfishla said:


> The old Graphenes that I have (you know, before the new ones came out) are...Grapheney sounding.  I kind of don't know how else to describe them.  I mean, full sounding, very energetic, nice bass, crisp highs and clear mids.  A great all-rounder, with no hesitation to recommend.  But they sound "Grapheney", which is not a bad thing, just unique to itself and the PT15 which I also own.  A certain vibrancy that seems to be unique to this material of driver.  The Moondrop Nameless are more traditional sounding.  They have a better (or I might say honest) interpretation of instruments and vocals.  The vocals are drier and sound like a voice singing through a mic and coming through a PA system.  I call that a "coffee house" take on vocals, because they have the ability to sound like a natural human voice and not just part of the production of music.  In that same vein, Nameless does acoustic better and drums better (at least in my opinion of them sounding more lifelike).  You also don't have to shove these into your ears to enjoy them, I find.  It's okay to wear these a bit loose because they have a bit of air in bass.  I also like the design of the Nameless.  Metal, sleek looking.  Little things like a ridge to stop the foams from encompassing the whole backside and making the L and R arms a tiny bit different so you can tell which is which by feeling them and not having to look at them.
> Thumbs up to both of these buds though.


i do not really understand what u  mean by grapheney but the new graphenes have this plasticky digital sound.. the sound of feeling plastic and digital or artificial in nature , eg vs the "metallic analog sound of the EMX500. if thats what u mean to say ..


----------



## mbwilson111 (Dec 10, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> i do not really understand what u  mean by grapheney but the new graphenes have this plasticky digital sound.. the sound of feeling plastic and digital or artificial in nature , eg vs the "metallic analog sound of the EMX500. if thats what u mean to say ..



After listening to many albums by artists that I know well... have seen them performin in small intimate venues, I would have to disagree.

actually it is late and I am tired... I should add that nothing sounds like plastic to me ....Everything just sounded "right"  to my ears.   That is the important part..... To MY Ears.


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> After listening to many albums by artists that I know well... have seen then performin small intimate venues, I would have to disagree.



Graphene buds like the mx760 and **** PT15 have a more smooth and polished sound to it (the mx760 more than the PT15) , like they put the music through another mastering compression. some people would love them, while some people don't. i myself prefer a more raw sounding sound (less compression). the mx760 have a more exciting sound, but going them both, i might purchase the newer PT15 to see if they improved, because the PT15 has a more "small studio monitor" sound that i like.


----------



## SweetEars (Dec 10, 2017)

acap13 said:


> I'm sorry if I have to respectfully disagree with you, sir. I dont particularly sure what is it meant by *badly tuned*. I guess its neutral tuning which loved by majority but not necessarily basshead. Basshead would not love that much due to preference. And I have here EMX500 and Graphene MX760 with me and I would say both are quite enjoyable. To my ears , I would take Graphene anyday anytime to EMX500 due to lackness of subbass( lowest pitch region) extension and hollowness around midrange is quite worrying me because there lies the majority of fundamental notes. Fun? Yeah to me and many others. By comparison of both in terms of transparency, Graphene is way ahead for my taste. Thats just totally IMHO but its quite interesting to hear different obversation around here though.




what  are noticing could be just synergy match with the equipment . in my experience

Monks sound best with Realtek sound card , also possibly also Soundblaster live ..because realtek has this excellent surround enhancement software.
EMX500 and RY4S sounds better on the conexant sound card . Conexant is better in sound articulation
The new graphenes sound better on my ipad iphoneThis  than laptop because these may contain some DAC which may be suitable for mobile sound ( earphones).

on my conexant there is 2 modes of operation when u plug in earphones .
headphone mode ( u can see the icon in the sound properties). default windows mode
speaker mode default  ( the speakers output the sound to the headgear ). Bang and Olfsen software takes over this

when u disable the headphone mode the speakers will take over to output sound to the headgear. I am not sure of the specifics on how they work

Both sound differently . speaker mode has a more wide but  flatter sound response while the headphone mode gives a more surround expereince in top down


----------



## SweetEars

mbwilson111 said:


> After listening to many albums by artists that I know well... have seen them performin in small intimate venues, I would have to disagree.
> 
> actually it is late and I am tired... I should add that nothing sounds like plastic to me ....Everything just sounded "right"  to my ears.   That is the important part..... To MY Ears.


in my opinion ,  the new graphenes  because of their soundstage  being a bit holographic and their mids and lows not being that fantastic in definition, things tend to sound a bit plastic and too much digital , or a bubbly effect to the drums and such sound.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Dec 10, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> and their mids and lows not being that fantastic in definition



I am getting excellent mids and lows...along with the holographic soundstage which I enjoy.  I use high quality daps.  Most of my music in in Flac format.

I use music to relax.  These buds seem suited to that.


----------



## wskl

chinmie said:


> Graphene buds like the mx760 and **** PT15 have a more smooth and polished sound to it (the mx760 more than the PT15) , like they put the music through another mastering compression. some people would love them, while some people don't. i myself prefer a more raw sounding sound (less compression). the mx760 have a more exciting sound, but going them both, i might purchase the newer PT15 to see if they improved, because the PT15 has a more "small studio monitor" sound that i like.



I am also curious about the newer PT15, they now have a single vent instead of 4 smaller vents at the back.


----------



## silverfishla (Dec 10, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> i do not really understand what u  mean by grapheney but the new graphenes have this plasticky digital sound.. the sound of feeling plastic and digital or artificial in nature , eg vs the "metallic analog sound of the EMX500. if thats what u mean to say ..


Ummm, Grapheney...yeah, sorry, not that descriptive huh?  haha  I don't think the Graphenes sound plasticky.  If anything, a snare or cymbal crash kind of sounds  a little like hitting those in a large concrete underpass.  Sorry, my friends who had a band used to do this late at night in Hollywood just to hear the way a snare drum reverberated in a concrete tunnel.  Not that popular a reference, but if you know what I mean, then you know what I mean.  EMX 500, I would not describe as metallic like.  Those are probably the most good "general sounding " buds out there in this price range.  I think they sound like a 3 foot tall, paper-coned 3-way, Fisher home stereo speaker.  The ones people used to drag to house parties with their home stereos before everyone knew a DJ.  Like from the late 80's.  A good set, that had to be borrowed from somebody's older brother.


----------



## waynes world

SweetEars said:


> in my opinion ,  the new graphenes  because of their soundstage  being a bit holographic and their mids and lows not being that fantastic in definition, things tend to sound a bit plastic and too much digital , or a bubbly effect to the drums and such sound.



Plastic? Bubbly? That sounds perfect. Ordered me a pair of new graphenes!



mbwilson111 said:


> I am getting excellent mids and lows...along with the holographic soundstage which I enjoy.  I use high quality daps.  Most of my music in in Flac format.
> 
> I use music to relax.  These buds seem suited to that.



Excellent mids & lows & holographic soundstage? That sounds perfect too! 

I think I'm going to enjoy this "new grapheny" sound!


----------



## RobinFood

I just got into a little bit of extra money thanks to Christmas, and I am wondering if the MoonDrop Liebeslied is comfortable. It looks great, but the fit seems kind of sketchy, like the Auglamour RX-1. I didn't like the fit on there where I just pushed it straight into the back of my ear, the ports to the skin, and there was no feeling of anything keeping it in place.

Normally, I might use a silicone over-ear hook, but the stem seems too long to wear over-ear like that.

People who own it, how happy are you with the fit?


----------



## audiobot

audio123 said:


> Penon BS1 Official Review - https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2017/12/10/penon-bs1-official/
> 
> Enjoy reading!



Damn. How do these compare to the Shozy BK? I am in the market for an earbud around the same quality of the BK or better.


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> I just got into a little bit of extra money thanks to Christmas, and I am wondering if the MoonDrop Liebeslied is comfortable. It looks great, but the fit seems kind of sketchy, like the Auglamour RX-1. I didn't like the fit on there where I just pushed it straight into the back of my ear, the ports to the skin, and there was no feeling of anything keeping it in place.
> 
> Normally, I might use a silicone over-ear hook, but the stem seems too long to wear over-ear like that.
> 
> People who own it, how happy are you with the fit?



When you're using the RX, is it uncomfortable because it's loose in your ears? To put it into description, the RX sits nicely in my ears, and in a more loosely snug feeling compared to the mx500 shell tipes. 

I'm using the Liebesleid with hiegi full foams, it's more or less like the RX-1 in my ears, but the liebesleid is also heavier so it sits more stable. Also the liebesleid is not too prone to sound differences because of positioning, so even if it's loose, the sound is still quite full like when you push them a little deeper. Opposite to this is the VX Pro; a little shift and they will loose so much low end


----------



## SweetEars

waynes world said:


> Plastic? Bubbly? That sounds perfect. Ordered me a pair of new graphenes!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


once u get the new graphenes, post yr impressions. i am sure u will find some flaws with it.


----------



## SweetEars

silverfishla said:


> Ummm, Grapheney...yeah, sorry, not that descriptive huh?  haha  I don't think the Graphenes sound plasticky.  If anything, a snare or cymbal crash kind of sounds  a little like hitting those in a large concrete underpass.  Sorry, my friends who had a band used to do this late at night in Hollywood just to hear the way a snare drum reverberated in a concrete tunnel.  Not that popular a reference, but if you know what I mean, then you know what I mean.  EMX 500, I would not describe as metallic like.  Those are probably the most good "general sounding " buds out there in this price range.  I think they sound like a 3 foot tall, paper-coned 3-way, Fisher home stereo speaker.  The ones people used to drag to house parties with their home stereos before everyone knew a DJ.  Like from the late 80's.  A good set, that had to be borrowed from somebody's older brother.


i agree they can sound good with live recordings and movies.. but not processed music.


----------



## KevDzn

IMO Its unfair to say its 'flawed' cos it does not suit the type of music you normally listen to.


----------



## SweetEars

KevDzn said:


> IMO Its unfair to say its 'flawed' cos it does not suit the type of music you normally listen to.


yeah it could be that too..


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> When you're using the RX, is it uncomfortable because it's loose in your ears? To put it into description, the RX sits nicely in my ears, and in a more loosely snug feeling compared to the mx500 shell tipes.
> 
> I'm using the Liebesleid with hiegi full foams, it's more or less like the RX-1 in my ears, but the liebesleid is also heavier so it sits more stable. Also the liebesleid is not too prone to sound differences because of positioning, so even if it's loose, the sound is still quite full like when you push them a little deeper. Opposite to this is the VX Pro; a little shift and they will loose so much low end



Yes, that is exactly it. They slide in and out as I move my head. They move less when I put foams, but the my ear gets itchy and hot where they grip. I also never know how far in I should put them in my ear (All the way in until it hits the wall of my ear, half way in, or barely touching...) 

One of the big appeals of buds for me is that I can forget them more easily than IEMs, but I felt extrememly concious that they were in my ears (the RX1s). I don't know if I could get used to that, unless I add some inner ear hooks maybe like in the VE Ex-pack


----------



## waynes world

wskl said:


> I am also curious about the newer PT15, they now have a single vent instead of 4 smaller vents at the back.



Thanks for the reminder - I've had them for a few weeks but haven't had much of a chance to check them out yet. Must do!


----------



## ClintonL

Looking to upgrade from my shozy BK, got around 250usd to spend, what earbuds should i be looking at? Will be driven off an SMSL idea or a hifimediy sabre.


----------



## wskl

Here is my review of the Duotres.

*Introduction*
When ABnormal announced a budget earbud called the Duotres, I just had to try it.  Never listened to an ABnormal earbud before but know of their reputation, especially what they did with the Diomnes.

I bought mine from a pre-order, but since the pre-order has already finished, there are only limited stocks.  International buyers can purchase from rholupat.com and there are a few retailers located in Indonesia should you live there.


*Build quality & accessories*
Standard MX500 shells, cable is springy and tends to coil up.  Blue aluminum case is a nice change from the usual clamshell style cases.  There are 2 pair of foams, ABnormal suggest that no foams will give you a brighter sound, the gray foams will give heavier bass, and the blue foams will get you an all-rounder earbud.



For the purposes of this review, I chose donut foams as I felt they gave the best tonal balance out of all the foams I tested.


*Bass*
Bass is not lacking, it is mildly boosted so that it is not too bassy or too lean.  Bass starts to roll off at 50Hz.  From what I can tell, the bass is of good quality and well controlled.


*Midrange*
Clean sounding mids, in terms of tonality they are slightly north of neutral with the donuts adding a tinge of warmth.  Some may find the mids a bit boring and they certainly are not as musical sounding compared to something like the DIY PK2.  Resolution is good, they are not analytical by any means but there should be enough detail to satisfy most listeners.  Also decent clarity, I did not notice much muddiness or veiled mids.  Vocals could do with being positioned upfront a bit more so they can take center stage.


*Treble*
Treble is in line with the mids, not too recessed or too bright, just right for my ears.  Not piercing or harsh, but staying crisp.


*Soundstage*
I found the soundstage to be only adequate in size, similar to what I hear on the Vido, not very wide but not narrow either, depth can be quite decent with a good recording.  Despite the soundstage not being overly big, the music is at least coherent sounding and instrument separation is quite good.  Of course it does have its limitations, depending on what you are listening to, there will be instances where the music will sound closed in.  If you are coming from listening to IEMs or a closed portable on-ear, then maybe it is not such a big departure, but for those of us who like an open and airy sound may find the soundstage to be a little disappointing.


*Final thoughts*
I find the Duotres to be a competent performer, the SQ is actually quite good, just let down by the soundstage in my opinion.

I listen to mostly classical so my opinion is biased towards that, I feel that the Duotres is better suited for chamber works such as a string quartet, sonatas and so on.  Anything orchestral driven like a concerto or a film score can sound decent but needs extra width to really shine.

For something more complex, using Mozart's Requiem as an example, the Duotres will struggle because we have a full orchestra, a choir and a handful of soloists all performing at the same time, the soundstage is neither large or airy enough to cope and is unable to do full justice to the recording.

To conclude, it does not get a big thumbs up from me but it isn't a bad purchase either.  If you understand the limits of its soundstage and play the right music, it is quite a nice earbud.


_*Burn-in:* 50hrs was required for me, out of the box they did not sound good, narrow soundstage, hollow mids, problems with the tonality and timbre.  The tuning just did not sound right to my ears but after burn-in, the sound began to settle down and soundstage became a bit wider.  I did further burn-in up to 80hrs but did not notice any significant changes.

*Source:* Xduoo X3 and Sony A35, Duotres is rated at 32 ohm so are easy to drive._


----------



## audio123

audiobot said:


> Damn. How do these compare to the Shozy BK? I am in the market for an earbud around the same quality of the BK or better.


To sum it up, the BS1 Official has more treble and is less dense sounding. There is more crisp and definition at the top end.


----------



## SweetEars

anyone knows any earbuds with the articulation of the emx500 but with large portrait  soundstage and depth?


----------



## euge

audio123 said:


> To sum it up, the BS1 Official has more treble and is less dense sounding. There is more crisp and definition at the top end.



Sounds like I'm gonna have to pick one up! How come its not for sale on their official store site, but on a random new site?


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> Yes, that is exactly it. They slide in and out as I move my head. They move less when I put foams, but the my ear gets itchy and hot where they grip. I also never know how far in I should put them in my ear (All the way in until it hits the wall of my ear, half way in, or barely touching...)
> 
> One of the big appeals of buds for me is that I can forget them more easily than IEMs, but I felt extrememly concious that they were in my ears (the RX1s). I don't know if I could get used to that, unless I add some inner ear hooks maybe like in the VE Ex-pack



So you don't use foams with the RX? I think if you don't use the foams on the liebesleid it will more or less slides in your ears like the RX, especially because they have a very smooth surface. If you don't want to use foams on your earbuds, you might get a more snug fit with the MX500 and MX760 tipes of shell. 

Give the hiegi foams a try. They have a more spongy feel compared to regular foams, and feels smoother to touch. They do attenuate highs a bit more than regular foams though. I love them on bright earbuds


----------



## SweetEars

can someone tell me which old version  graphene to get in aliexpress?


----------



## euge

SweetEars said:


> can someone tell me which old version  graphene to get in aliexpress?



nicehck is the safe choice


----------



## theoutsider

RobinFood said:


> I just got into a little bit of extra money thanks to Christmas, and I am wondering if the MoonDrop Liebeslied is comfortable. It looks great, but the fit seems kind of sketchy, like the Auglamour RX-1. I didn't like the fit on there where I just pushed it straight into the back of my ear, the ports to the skin, and there was no feeling of anything keeping it in place.
> 
> Normally, I might use a silicone over-ear hook, but the stem seems too long to wear over-ear like that.
> 
> People who own it, how happy are you with the fit?


Moondrop Nameless fits better than RX-1 in my ears. Vx Pro (international or mainland version) is always loose in my ears, I have to resort to using the provided rubber pieces to add extra grip inside my ears. VX-J has a different back but the inner shell should be the same. It is the second heaviest earbuds I have, after FangZhang HY1000, but it is nonetheless quite comfortable to listen to. As of yet, I do not have and do not have the impulse to get Liebeslied so I am not sure about its fit and comfort. From the look of it, it is probably a tad heavier than Vx Pro.


----------



## chinmie

theoutsider said:


> Moondrop Nameless fits better than RX-1 in my ears. Vx Pro (international or mainland version) is always loose in my ears, I have to resort to using the provided rubber pieces to add extra grip inside my ears. VX-J has a different back but the inner shell should be the same. It is the second heaviest earbuds I have, after FangZhang HY1000, but it is nonetheless quite comfortable to listen to. As of yet, I do not have and do not have the impulse to get Liebeslied so I am not sure about its fit and comfort. From the look of it, it is probably a tad heavier than Vx Pro.



yup, the liebesleid is heavier than vx pro. i also had trouble using the vx pro (single foam= good sound, but to loose and finicky fitting; double foam= snug fitting, reduced sound quality). the liebesleid, while sitting a bit loose in the ear, the heaviness helps a lot. not to mention the sound is leaps and bounds compared to the vx pro


----------



## mbwilson111

NiceHCK has both the old and the new graphene.   The old is the more expensive of the two.


----------



## audiobot

euge said:


> Sounds like I'm gonna have to pick one up! How come its not for sale on their official store site, but on a random new site?


Emailed Penon and they said the new site is legit. Safe to purchase from.


----------



## weedophile

Hey guys, i have got a question to ask. How does the Vido fare against the apple earpods? I am thinking of making a reterminated and recabled Vido for a friend for Xmas but not entirely sure of the SQ of the earpods.

For myself the modded Vido is the single most insane thing i own so far. Its just like black magic coming out of those thing hence I guess its better but just wanted to double confirm xD


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> So you don't use foams with the RX? I think if you don't use the foams on the liebesleid it will more or less slides in your ears like the RX, especially because they have a very smooth surface. If you don't want to use foams on your earbuds, you might get a more snug fit with the MX500 and MX760 tipes of shell.
> 
> Give the hiegi foams a try. They have a more spongy feel compared to regular foams, and feels smoother to touch. They do attenuate highs a bit more than regular foams though. I love them on bright earbuds



I actually don't own the RX. I sampled it at e-earphone, and they had it naked. I didn't like the fit, but I wear all my buds naked cause the foam irritates my ears after a few minutes. The body of the Liebesleid reminded me of the RX though.

I was gonna use some of these to get a good fit, they work great on the monk plus, but the tip looks too long on the Moondrops...






BTW do you know the country of origin for MoonDrop? The Liebesleid has a special limited edition Japan model right now.


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> I actually don't own the RX. I sampled it at e-earphone, and they had it naked. I didn't like the fit, but I wear all my buds naked cause the foam irritates my ears after a few minutes. The body of the Liebesleid reminded me of the RX though.
> 
> I was gonna use some of these to get a good fit, they work great on the monk plus, but the tip looks too long on the Moondrops...
> 
> ...



using that silicon earloops are meant to wear them over ear.. i don't think it would be comfortable as the stem of the liebesleid is rather long. 

Moondrop is from China. from what I've read, they are quite popular and selling well in japan that they made special edition model of their buds exclusive for Japan


----------



## theoutsider (Dec 11, 2017)

RobinFood said:


> I actually don't own the RX. I sampled it at e-earphone, and they had it naked. I didn't like the fit, but I wear all my buds naked cause the foam irritates my ears after a few minutes. The body of the Liebesleid reminded me of the RX though.
> 
> I was gonna use some of these to get a good fit, they work great on the monk plus, but the tip looks too long on the Moondrops...
> 
> ...


From szechuan china. If you watch Rick & Morty, you will know that good nugget sauce originated from the same area.

Fujiya avic is selling a special edition liebesleid wih striped cable.


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> using that silicon earloops are meant to wear them over ear.. i don't think it would be comfortable as the stem of the liebesleid is rather long.
> 
> Moondrop is from China. from what I've read, they are quite popular and selling well in japan that they made special edition model of their buds exclusive for Japan



Yeah, I thought it wouldn't work, unless I were to clip the stem and let some wire hang out, but it would look really bad.

I guess I have some more thinking to do. Maybe another trip to e-earphone with some foam to experiment with the RX1 fit, or buy an RX1 and try to see if I can get it to stay comfortably before dropping the big cash on the MoonDrop. Thanks for the food for though!


----------



## SweetEars

weedophile said:


> Hey guys, i have got a question to ask. How does the Vido fare against the apple earpods? I am thinking of making a reterminated and recabled Vido for a friend for Xmas but not entirely sure of the SQ of the earpods.
> 
> For myself the modded Vido is the single most insane thing i own so far. Its just like black magic coming out of those thing hence I guess its better but just wanted to double confirm xD


if u referring to the earpods that come with iphone6.. they suck..


----------



## seanc6441

audio123 said:


> Penon BS1 Official Review - https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2017/12/10/penon-bs1-official/
> 
> Enjoy reading!


Wow my BS1 never looked that bad ass.

That earbud looks amazing...


----------



## prone2phone

Got these one here: toneking to200 and yincrow 777. I think they both tried to tune them for audiophiles as they have proper mids and good neutralish overall balance with yincrow brighter and more natural and toneking warmer mids and bit more musical. Both also don't do deep bass well but can produce very strong energy on drums.
Yincrow from memory has some similarities to Pk1, maybe...
Both earbuds need more volume as yincrow is lower sensitivity than most earbuds and toneking is 200ohms.
I enjoy both.
Personally, if yincrow777 and the new graphenes had a child that would be a perfect earbud. IMO.


----------



## seanc6441

SweetEars said:


> i do not really understand what u  mean by grapheney but the new graphenes have this plasticky digital sound.. the sound of feeling plastic and digital or artificial in nature , eg vs the "metallic analog sound of the EMX500. if thats what u mean to say ..


That’s funny because I consider the emx500 to have a ‘digital’ sound compared to my ‘analog’ sounding stardust or diy pk2/cygnus.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 11, 2017)

euge said:


> Sounds like I'm gonna have to pick one up! How come its not for sale on their official store site, but on a random new site?


If it’s the same as the original BS1 (which I own) in SQ it’s not in the same league as the stardust but still a good midrange bud.

But this new one looks way more premium and serious so it may sound better too.

Ok it’s $99... definitely not my $39 original bs1 lol!


----------



## weedophile

SweetEars said:


> if u referring to the earpods that come with iphone6.. they suck..


Thanks mate, either way i couldnt wait and just did it lmao


----------



## seanc6441

audio123 said:


> Penon BS1 Official Review - https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2017/12/10/penon-bs1-official/
> 
> Enjoy reading!


Would you describe it as warm neutral or cold sounding? compared to Rose Masya and/or Shozy BK Stardust.

I may need to look at these, they seem like the real deal.


----------



## waynes world

SweetEars said:


> once u get the new graphenes, post yr impressions. i am sure u will find some flaws with it.



Don't worry, I won't rest until _every single flaw _is exposed!


----------



## 7UPguy

What is the best earbud available on Amazon under $50 CAD?


----------



## groucho69

7UPguy said:


> What is the best earbud available on Amazon under $50 CAD?



Totally broad and subjective. If you give some detail as to what you like and what you listen to then I'm sure you will get many options.


----------



## 7UPguy

groucho69 said:


> Totally broad and subjective. If you give some detail as to what you like and what you listen to then I'm sure you will get many options.



I'm looking for something opposite of the Apple Earpods. The Earpods are really bassy, so I'm looking for something more detailed and mid focused. I am interested in the Auglamour RX-1, but the shipping takes forever because they come from China.


----------



## chaiyuta

seanc6441 said:


> Would you describe it as warm neutral or cold sounding? compared to Rose Masya and/or Shozy BK Stardust.
> 
> I may need to look at these, they seem like the real deal.



I own it (BS1 Official 2.5mm BL plug), and it still be inburn-in period. With stock donut sponges, it is neutral with a tad warm tonality. Shozy BK (with stock full foam) is warmer.


----------



## seanc6441

chaiyuta said:


> I own it (BS1 Official 2.5mm BL plug), and it still be inburn-in period. With stock donut sponges, it is neutral with a tad warm tonality. Shozy BK (with stock full foam) is warmer.


Is it worth owning both? I can get it for $60 because I already bought the bs1 experience version (original).

Do they sound different but equal sound quality or is the bk just better?

How is the soundstage?


----------



## seanc6441

7UPguy said:


> I'm looking for something opposite of the Apple Earpods. The Earpods are really bassy, so I'm looking for something more detailed and mid focused. I am interested in the Auglamour RX-1, but the shipping takes forever because they come from China.


Go for the diy pk2/pk2s if you can handle treble or just stick on thick heigi foams to tame it.

The RX1 is quite neutral and whilst it’s detailed it’s not a very natural or lush sounding mid range, more for pop music only.


----------



## j4100 (Dec 11, 2017)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...e-Unit-Vocal-Earbud-With-OFC/32844736687.html

A new one up on NiceHCK - Toneking ROS1. It appeared in my cart today. How much is this going for (wondering if I'm seeing a discount in my cart)? Does look nice. 18Ohm. 

I'm still reading the thread from October last year. A lot of hype trains were running then. Still a few about


----------



## jogawag (Dec 11, 2017)

7UPguy said:


> I'm looking for something opposite of the Apple Earpods. The Earpods are really bassy, so I'm looking for something more detailed and mid focused. I am interested in the Auglamour RX-1, but the shipping takes forever because they come from China.



I recommend "EMX500" or "Quian69" or "Edifier H185" as Earbuds you can purchase on Amazon.com.
If you do not get satisfied with it enough, you can purchase the previously mentioned "PK2s" from Aliexpress.

As a reference, I will present a Earbuds Ranking.
https://goo.gl/gt1THD


----------



## Rendster

jogawag said:


> I recommend "EMX500" or "Quian69" or "Edifier H185" as Earbuds you can purchase on Amazon.com.
> If you do not get satisfied with it enough, you can purchase the previously mentioned "PK2s" from Aliexpress.
> 
> As a reference, I will present a Earbuds Ranking.
> https://goo.gl/gt1THD



You're not recommending the ry4s anymore?


----------



## rkw

seanc6441 said:


> Is it worth owning both? I can get it for $60 because I already bought the bs1 experience version (original).


Realistically, at $60 the question will keep nagging at you and you'll end up getting it anyway.


----------



## jogawag

Rendster said:


> You're not recommending the ry4s anymore?


He wrote that "The Earpods are really bassy,", so I didn't recommend RY4S.


----------



## groucho69

seanc6441 said:


> Go for the diy pk2/pk2s if you can handle treble or just stick on thick heigi foams to tame it.
> 
> The RX1 is quite neutral and whilst it’s detailed it’s not a very natural or lush sounding mid range, more for pop music only.



+1 on PK2


----------



## seanc6441

rkw said:


> Realistically, at $60 the question will keep nagging at you and you'll end up getting it anyway.


Maybe but I’m considering not buying any earbuds for awhile and save up for my ‘end game’ earbud like cypherus cax black/moondrop liebsleid etc (the red dragon is just too much lol)

But If this is as good as the stardust but different sounding and it’s only $60 for me I may add it to my collection because of the good deal.


----------



## noknok23

seanc6441 said:


> Maybe but I’m considering not buying any earbuds for awhile and save up for my ‘end game’ earbud like cypherus cax black/moondrop liebsleid etc (the red dragon is just too much lol)
> 
> But If this is as good as the stardust but different sounding and it’s only $60 for me I may add it to my collection because of the good deal.



wait for a couple of more reviews won't hurt  unless there is a time limit with the discount, otherwise consider it will be easy to resell in the case you are disappointed.
also note that penon usually doesn't do any sales/discount


----------



## euge

seanc6441 said:


> Maybe but I’m considering not buying any earbuds for awhile and save up for my ‘end game’ earbud like cypherus cax black/moondrop liebsleid etc (the red dragon is just too much lol)
> 
> But If this is as good as the stardust but different sounding and it’s only $60 for me I may add it to my collection because of the good deal.



do it!!!


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Maybe but I’m considering not buying any earbuds for awhile *and save up for my ‘end game’ earbud* like cypherus cax black/moondrop liebsleid etc (the red dragon is just too much lol)



Not me! I'm gonna spend that much on $20 earbuds. My hundred pairs of ears will then be set for life LOL


----------



## HungryPanda

+1 for the Edifier H185 if you are looking for a mid focused, detailed and non bass overpowering earbud, cheap and easily available on amazon


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 11, 2017)

noknok23 said:


> wait for a couple of more reviews won't hurt  unless there is a time limit with the discount, otherwise consider it will be easy to resell in the case you are disappointed.
> also note that penon usually doesn't do any sales/discount


Their fb page said it so i’ll hold them to it lol


----------



## 7UPguy

HungryPanda said:


> +1 for the Edifier H185 if you are looking for a mid focused, detailed and non bass overpowering earbud, cheap and easily available on amazon



How do they sound compared to the diy pk2?


----------



## gazzington

I have ordered myself a blur earphone but on the whole I like having loads of different buds under €30 as it means I can use them out and about with out being too scared of them being damaged. I am waiting for snow lotus 2.0 and pk2 to arrived and am currently really enjoying my seahf buds


----------



## HungryPanda

7UPguy said:


> How do they sound compared to the diy pk2?



They both sound very different, The H185 sounds more spacious but I prefer the fuller bass and vocals of the PK2


----------



## SweetEars

anyone knows any wide frequency earphones in aliexpress?


----------



## euge

SweetEars said:


> anyone knows any wide frequency earphones in aliexpress?



these?

1
2
3
4


----------



## SweetEars

euge said:


> these?
> 
> 1
> 2
> ...


thanks the first one toneking seems affordable.. should i buy it instead fo the old graphenes?


----------



## chaiyuta

@seanc6441 : Cause I ever tried Shozy BK just one time with less than 10 minutes also I don't own Rose Masya and BS1 Experience version, I can't make any bold confirmation to you. Moreover, I am going to let it burn-in surpassed 200 hours. 

By the way, I am not disappointed at all.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 11, 2017)

Ah ok. My one complaint for the stardust is that sometimes it can make certain older recordings sound abit rough and over textured due to the high resolution and detail it produces and the way these tracks were recorded.

So I may pick this bud up and give it a try. But after I receive my LG V20 first to see if that has any effect. I’m definitely going to be abit more conservative with my spending for awhile... I hope lol


----------



## waynes world

SweetEars said:


> thanks the first one toneking seems affordable.. should i buy it instead fo the old graphenes?



It's a bit difficult for me to say so (because I love the old graphenes), but I don't think you should get the old graphenes. You don't like the new graphenes, and even though people have stated that they sound different from the old ones, they still probably have some commonality, so it might not be worth the gamble for you.


----------



## SweetEars

waynes world said:


> It's a bit difficult for me to say so (because I love the old graphenes), but I don't think you should get the old graphenes. You don't like the new graphenes, and even though people have stated that they sound different from the old ones, they still probably have some commonality, so it might not be worth the gamble for you.


 both are totally different drivers am i right? so it means different products...


----------



## Dark Helmet

waynes world said:


> It's a bit difficult for me to say so (because I love the old graphenes), but I don't think you should get the old graphenes. You don't like the new graphenes, and even though people have stated that they sound different from the old ones, they still probably have some commonality, so it might not be worth the gamble for you.


The old Graphne are significantly better than the new ones.


----------



## SweetEars

is there any detailed reviews on the Music maker TP16


----------



## SweetEars

i noticed a certain shop that cannot be named has this  moon drop nameless with 15hz-28khz range... no feedback yet


----------



## RodRevenge

Duuuude nameless at $19, sadly im still waiting for 3 buds so i don't see the point of ordering more.


----------



## rkw

SweetEars said:


> anyone knows any wide frequency earphones in aliexpress?


What exactly are you looking for? Most earbuds have specs that claim to have frequency response beyond the range of human hearing (20hz - 20Khz).


----------



## waynes world (Dec 11, 2017)

RodRevenge said:


> Duuuude nameless at $19, sadly im still waiting for 3 buds so i don't see the point of ordering more.



You need a point?


----------



## SweetEars

can someone state if the old graphenes have a good depth to the soundstage?


----------



## Cyperus

New Toys for X'mas ... Happy Holiday everyone


----------



## Saoshyant

What's the name of this one?


----------



## chaiyuta

@Cyperus : Cable looks heavily stiff.


----------



## Cyperus

Saoshyant said:


> What's the name of this one?


Have not decide the name yet... but something like ZoomFred


----------



## Cyperus

chaiyuta said:


> @Cyperus : Cable looks heavily stiff.


Cable not that stiff.... the heat shrink make it look stiff.


----------



## chaiyuta

How about MagnifyingFred?


----------



## SweetEars

can someone state what are the real differences between the old graphenes and EMX500? thanks.


----------



## j4100

Cyperus said:


> Have not decide the name yet... but something like ZoomFred



Where does this sit in your range? Above CAX black?


----------



## j4100

Waiting on a couple of Ali deliveries. When checking tracking, I get this message.

Information Received (This is not an acknowledgment of the physical receipt of the stated Registered Article)

What does this mean? Not seen that on previous delivery trackers.


----------



## seanc6441

SweetEars said:


> can someone state what are the real differences between the old graphenes and EMX500? thanks.




Emx500 is roughly U shaped, emphasis at both ends, so big sub bass and sparkle in the treble. Mids and vocals sit behind the bass and treble slightly.

Old Graphene is more like this —v— so modest sub bass, mid bass bump, dip somewhere in the mids (I think around the male vocal region) then another bump around the high mids/lower treble which levels off in the upper treble.

Emx500 sounds slightly smoother but isn’t a particularly smooth bud, graphene more textured but also slightly rough at times.

Both have deep soundstage but the emx500 feels slightly bigger.


----------



## SweetEars

seanc6441 said:


> Emx500 is roughly U shaped, emphasis at both ends, so big sub bass and sparkle in the treble. Mids and vocals sit behind the bass and treble slightly.
> 
> Old Graphene is more like this —v— so modest sub bass, mid bass bump, dip somewhere in the mids (I think around the male vocal region) then another bump around the high mids/lower treble which levels off in the upper treble.
> 
> ...


thanks do u have the metal or plastic grille of the old graphene?


----------



## seanc6441

SweetEars said:


> thanks do u have the metal or plastic grille of the old graphene?


plastic


----------



## Danneq (Dec 12, 2017)

Cyperus said:


> New Toys for X'mas ... Happy Holiday everyone



Cool! Special edition of CampFred or a step up?

Have to resist! 4 pairs of Cypherus earbuds should be enough for any person!


----------



## ctaxxxx

Cyperus said:


> New Toys for X'mas ... Happy Holiday everyone



Sigh... Someone buy my Blurs. I may need to fund for a new earbud.

CampFred 2 and QFred are still some of my favorite buds. CAX Black wasn't my thing, but it had amazing technicalities for a bud. Interested to see where this lies. 

I'll get a Red Dragon when I'm content with my full sized headphones. I should be close. I think...


----------



## Cyperus

j4100 said:


> Where does this sit in your range? Above CAX black?


This sit in the range of CampFred and QFred. Below CAX black


----------



## 7UPguy

Can someone compare the diy pk2 and Moondrop Nameless? I'm trying to decide between these two.


----------



## Cyperus

Danneq said:


> Cool! Special edition of CampFred or a step up?
> 
> Have to resist! 4 pairs of Cypherus earbuds should be enough for any person!



A different sound signature than CampFred. I might say this is a step up of QFred. Same signature of QFred mid with more slam on the bass n better extension on the hi. 

Are you sure 4 pairs is enough? Haha


----------



## Cyperus

ctaxxxx said:


> Sigh... Someone buy my Blurs. I may need to fund for a new earbud.
> 
> CampFred 2 and QFred are still some of my favorite buds. CAX Black wasn't my thing, but it had amazing technicalities for a bud. Interested to see where this lies.
> 
> I'll get a Red Dragon when I'm content with my full sized headphones. I should be close. I think...



If you love QFred than this one up for collection as well


----------



## ctaxxxx

Cyperus said:


> A different sound signature than CampFred. I might say this is a step up of QFred. Same signature of QFred mid with more slam on the bass n better extension on the hi.
> 
> Are you sure 4 pairs is enough? Haha





Cyperus said:


> If you love QFred than this one up for collection as well



OMG YESSS. Been waiting for an improvement on the QFreds!


----------



## Saoshyant

I'm tempted as well.  How does the bass compare to Blue Darth?  I know I should just save up for something at a higher tier however.


----------



## wokashraf

question..im curious..are cable play major part in sound quality..as i found a seller in taobao for diy graphene earbud..the price between normal unit and copper wire kinda big..can buy me two set of McD..hahaha


----------



## Saoshyant

There are people that are cable believers and not on Head-Fi, so you will get two different answers.  There's no simple answer, however, and it's something you will have to make the decision on yourself.


----------



## seanc6441

@Cyperus that sounds like something I’d be interested in. More of a balanced sound but slightly mid centric?

Is the sound warm or neutral?


----------



## cqtek

Hello.

I have the new Graphene model with MX760 capsule. I really found the sound very very thin, without bass. I burned they along 40 hours now. Today I changed left channel to right ear and right channel to left ear, and now I listen the music dramatically different, with really more volume, now the sound is "normal". I know that MX760 is an asymmetric capsule, maybe I have a particular ear that contact better upside down.
Has anyone tried it?

The model I have is this (silver transparent option):

https://es.aliexpress.com/store/pro...-de-Tierras-Raras-de/1825606_32839988234.html


----------



## silverfishla

7UPguy said:


> Can someone compare the diy pk2 and Moondrop Nameless? I'm trying to decide between these two.


I like the Moondrop Nameless very much.  It is on par with the best of the budget buds like the Old Graphene and Emx500.  All three of those have a bit of a different sound to them, and work well with different sources.  I think the Moondrop is better than the others amped (I use a Zishan Z2 with Muses02 Opamp into an Aune B1s amp and it sounds great and spacious and I think more resolving than the other two)  Honestly, though, I am not a fan of the PK2 DIY bud.  I think the vocals sound congested.  It's energetic though, but I don't like how the mids sound.  One of the few people around here that give that one a tilt on the thumbs down.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 12, 2017)

silverfishla said:


> I like the Moondrop Nameless very much.  It is on par with the best of the budget buds like the Old Graphene and Emx500.  All three of those have a bit of a different sound to them, and work well with different sources.  I think the Moondrop is better than the others amped (I use a Zishan Z2 with Muses02 Opamp into an Aune B1s amp and it sounds great and spacious and I think more resolving than the other two)  Honestly, though, I am not a fan of the PK2 DIY bud.  I think the vocals sound congested.  It's energetic though, but I don't like how the mids sound.  One of the few people around here that give that one a tilt on the thumbs down.


nameless for €16 sounds like a good deal to me. If you haven’t bought a budget bud yet and like the nameless design it could be the best option, but I also like the pk2 for it’s ‘potential’.

It’s the only earbud that has the right energy for acoustic to make it sound much better than its price but I agree it has obvious flaws when you compare it to shozy bk standard of earbuds.

Going to have to wait for my pk2s to arrive to see if it improves on the diy pk2 sound. If so it may be my recommendation going forward.

But the nameless for €16 is hard to beat...


----------



## luckyeights

Hmm these new penon BS1's have me hovering over the checkout button.  I have the Masya which are good but too thin and the K's samsara which i love dearly.  I am wondering if these would be better than Samsara they seem to be described like something id like in the review but are they better are they worth the $99.  I would like to hear some more about it but i dont want to miss the sale on them i dont know what they plan on raising the price to =(.   Thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## bjj51

I just ordered the **** diy emx500 from Ali express. Are these the ones everyone recommends or should I have gotten the  fengru diy emx500? Is there any difference between the models?


----------



## HungryPanda

Those are the ones I have and like very much


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 12, 2017)

luckyeights said:


> Hmm these new penon BS1's have me hovering over the checkout button.  I have the Masya which are good but too thin and the K's samsara which i love dearly.  I am wondering if these would be better than Samsara they seem to be described like something id like in the review but are they better are they worth the $99.  I would like to hear some more about it but i dont want to miss the sale on them i dont know what they plan on raising the price to =(.   Thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.



If you’re buying it do not purchase it directly! Buy the penon bs1 experience version for $39, then email penon and say you purchased the experience and would like the official for $60. They will request $60 via paypal and send you the official. Their facebook says owners of the experience version get the official bud for $60 and I can confirm that i’ve just paid $60 for it.

Why pay $99 for one earbud when you can get two


----------



## SweetEars

bjj51 said:


> I just ordered the **** diy emx500 from Ali express. Are these the ones everyone recommends or should I have gotten the  fengru diy emx500? Is there any difference between the models?


i believe u got the more popular one of the emx500 just like the nicehck version of the graphene. so no worries.


----------



## SweetEars (Dec 12, 2017)

cqtek said:


> Hello.
> 
> I have the new Graphene model with MX760 capsule. I really found the sound very very thin, without bass. I burned they along 40 hours now. Today I changed left channel to right ear and right channel to left ear, and now I listen the music dramatically different, with really more volume, now the sound is "normal". I know that MX760 is an asymmetric capsule, maybe I have a particular ear that contact better upside down.
> Has anyone tried it?
> ...


its the same one i have...what u mean by upside down i dont really get it... maybe they may sound better if the holes are opened up


----------



## bjj51

SweetEars said:


> its the same one i have...what u mean by upside down i dont really get it...


Thanks for calming my nerves guys, will report back when the arrive!


----------



## SweetEars

bjj51 said:


> Thanks for calming my nerves guys, will report back when the arrive!


if u own both the emx500 and new mx760 . both have different sound signatures


----------



## wskl

seanc6441 said:


> If you’re buying it do not purchase it directly! Buy the penon bs1 experience version for $39, then email penon and say you purchased the experience and would like the official for $60. They will request $60 via paypal and send you the official. There fb says owers of the experience version get the bud for $60 and I can confirm that i’ve just paid $60 for it.
> 
> Why pay $99 for one earbud when you can get two



You sly old fox, let's hope Penon don't catch on ... haha


----------



## Cyperus

Saoshyant said:


> I'm tempted as well.  How does the bass compare to Blue Darth?  I know I should just save up for something at a higher tier however.


The Blue Darth has more bass quantity and towards warm sound signature where the new one has better bass definition and towards neutral sound signature


----------



## Cyperus

seanc6441 said:


> @Cyperus that sounds like something I’d be interested in. More of a balanced sound but slightly mid centric?
> 
> Is the sound warm or neutral?


Yes, it is balance sounding with slightly mid centric. I might say neutral but since it has analogue sounding than it is a bit warm to some people


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 12, 2017)

Cyperus said:


> Yes, it is balance sounding with slightly mid centric. I might say neutral but since it has analogue sounding than it is a bit warm to some people


Well there goes my christmas money I think... 

Seriously though it sounds very nice, I like neutral-warm and warm sounding earbuds the most, and the midrange is very important  and overlooked aspect in many earbuds.

Thanks for answering!


----------



## SweetEars

i have the following now

EMX500
R4YS
New graphene

will adding the nameless moon drop ,  old graphene or the TP16 make any difference, or is it more of the same thing?


----------



## SweetEars

seanc6441 said:


> nameless for €16 sounds like a good deal to me. If you haven’t bought a budget bud yet and like the nameless design it could be the best option, but I also like the pk2 for it’s ‘potential’.
> 
> It’s the only earbud that has the right energy for acoustic to make it sound much better than its price but I agree it has obvious flaws when you compare it to shozy bk standard of earbuds.
> 
> ...


is the soundstage deep and wide in the nameless moondrops?


----------



## chaiyuta (Dec 12, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> If you’re buying it do not purchase it directly! Buy the penon bs1 experience version for $39, then email penon and say you purchased the experience and would like the official for $60. They will request $60 via paypal and send you the official. Their facebook says owners of the experience version get the official bud for $60 and I can confirm that i’ve just paid $60 for it.
> 
> Why pay $99 for one earbud when you can get two



Why don't you wait my mini impression a bit.    Anyhow, i wish you happy with your coming BS1 official. Material quality is really nice. The more burn-in the more I understand how Mr. Ricky (audio123) feel. Overall is smooth and soft sound. Though my preference bias need more slam and impact.


----------



## RodRevenge

SweetEars said:


> i have the following now
> 
> EMX500
> R4YS
> ...


What are your thoughts about ry4s and how they compare to the emx500? I ordered the ry4s no braided mic version for my gaming.


----------



## SweetEars (Dec 13, 2017)

RodRevenge said:


> What are your thoughts about ry4s and how they compare to the emx500? I ordered the ry4s no braided mic version for my gaming.


They both somewhat sound Very similar. but the EMx 500 have a slight advantage in depth and liveliness and sub bass but  the Ry4s has better mid bass punch and feels slightly warmer overall with slightly larger sound stage in width. But its hard to notice the differences. the sound signature is almost identical  as if they are using the same drivers...


----------



## euge

seanc6441 said:


> If you’re buying it do not purchase it directly! Buy the penon bs1 experience version for $39, then email penon and say you purchased the experience and would like the official for $60. They will request $60 via paypal and send you the official. Their facebook says owners of the experience version get the official bud for $60 and I can confirm that i’ve just paid $60 for it.
> 
> Why pay $99 for one earbud when you can get two



When is yours arriving?


----------



## euge

wskl said:


> You sly old fox, let's hope Penon don't catch on ... haha



I actually asked them on Facebook if I bought the exp vr now do I still get the discount, and they replied yes 2 of them for 99$


----------



## Danneq

seanc6441 said:


> Well there goes my christmas money I think...
> 
> Seriously though it sounds very nice, I like neutral-warm and warm sounding earbuds the most, and the midrange is very important  and overlooked aspect in many earbuds.
> 
> Thanks for answering!



I sold my pair of Shozy Cygnus right after I got my pair of QFred. QFred is by far the best midcentric earbud I've heard. Unfortunately it is a bit limited because of that and mainly genres that focus on vocals and/or acoustic instrument brings the QFred to their full potential. For that reason I might skip this new one. I still like to keep QFred because it can bring a nice change to my other earbuds that have a more even FQ response....


----------



## j4100

HungryPanda said:


> I also really like K's 300 and K's 600



Would you be able to share your thoughts on the K's 600 and the EBX? I have an EBX on the way and just wondering whether it's worth trying for the 600 whilst there is a discount on it. I didn't see any reviews or impressions on here.

Cheers.


----------



## chaiyuta (Dec 13, 2017)

@seanc6441 : Don't buy any earbuds more. Save up money for a new TOTL badminton racket likes YONEX DUORA 10 better. lol

Back to topic, my BS1 Official 2.5 mm. Plug has surpassed 10 hours burn-in. It becomes better and better than the very first hours. Once it was out of box, it is mediocre sound. From my memory (which can be wrong), now I have to say detail retrieval from this one is beyond Shozy BK performance. For my ears, the sound tendancy is somewhat upgraded Toneking TO200 sound. Better textured bass, better sub-bass response, more transparency and smooth vocal, the height and depth of sound stage is higher, the width of soundstage might be not much less than TO200. (I still feel Kinera buds is wider soundstage than both TO200 and BS1) However, I don't think this is the real sound of BS1 Official cause It just 10+hours burn-in.


----------



## HungryPanda

j4100 said:


> Would you be able to share your thoughts on the K's 600 and the EBX? I have an EBX on the way and just wondering whether it's worth trying for the 600 whilst there is a discount on it. I didn't see any reviews or impressions on here.
> 
> Cheers.


 The K's K600 is my favourite earbud whilst sitting at my desk. It is akin to having a regular headphone on but it does like a bit of juice so it has to be amped. The EBX is easy to drive and much better built it is solid with changeable cable.


----------



## daid1

I want to upgrade my buds, my budget is around the 170 euros, what is the earbud with the best image that you have tried?


----------



## j4100

HungryPanda said:


> The K's K600 is my favourite earbud whilst sitting at my desk. It is akin to having a regular headphone on but it does like a bit of juice so it has to be amped. The EBX is easy to drive and much better built it is solid with changeable cable.



Many thanks. I'll have a think about this. I have a Mojo for mobile duties and run my main rig through my Audiolab M-DAC.

I feel I need to address my lack of high impedance buds


----------



## Orac

j4100 said:


> https://www.cypherusaudio.com/earbuds


Thanks. I did see that before your reply, but no ordering info or pricing there, neither is there any response to the registration form they have. I'm not sure I understand how they are operating, invite only to forum members? waiting lists? No matter, I will continue to gather info from this thread and look elsewhere.


----------



## j4100

There are a couple of posts by them on the last few pages, so perhaps you could send them a message to ask for prices?


----------



## Danneq

daid1 said:


> I want to upgrade my buds, my budget is around the 170 euros, what is the earbud with the best image that you have tried?



What sort of sound signature do you prefer? Do you like something more neutral? Or something slightly more analytical?

At around your price I would perhaps say ABnormal Diomnes Lv2, but they are discontinued. CampFred 2 are slightly more expensive but have excellent imaging. How about Rose Mojito? It has got a big soundstage. Unfortunately I found it to be too bright for my taste so I sold my pair...




Orac said:


> Thanks. I did see that before your reply, but no ordering info or pricing there, neither is there any response to the registration form they have. I'm not sure I understand how they are operating, invite only to forum members? waiting lists? No matter, I will continue to gather info from this thread and look elsewhere.



When I bought my first Cypherus earbuds I contacted Cypherus on their Facebook page and then Herry of Cyhperus and I discussed the order through e-mails. Cypherus is pretty much a one man company so it is best to send questions through e-mail to Cypherus/Herry.


----------



## Orac

j4100 said:


> ...send them a message to ask for prices?





Danneq said:


> ...contacted Cypherus on their Facebook...


Thanks both. I don't use Facebook so inevitably I will always miss info there.


----------



## Danneq

Some of the smaller Indonesian earbud boutiques can be difficult to get in contact with. When I bought Diomnes Lv2 from ABnormal, the whole deal was conducted through Facebook message. I prefer e-mail in that case.

I can send you Herry's e-mail address in a PM. Or you can send a PM to Cyperus here on Head fi...


----------



## daid1

Danneq said:


> What sort of sound signature do you prefer? Do you like something more neutral? Or something slightly more analytical?
> 
> At around your price I would perhaps say ABnormal Diomnes Lv2, but they are discontinued. CampFred 2 are slightly more expensive but have excellent imaging. How about Rose Mojito? It has got a big soundstage. Unfortunately I found it to be too bright for my taste so I sold my pair...



To bright it would be a problem, I'll like something balanced, neutral. Diomnes Lv2 could be my choice but also shipping to Abnormal the old Monk to make the Diomnes costs so much


----------



## Orac (Dec 13, 2017)

Danneq said:


> ...I prefer e-mail in that case...


I think so too, if you have the address to hand then feel free to PM me. Although it's probably just as easy if I message Cypherus on here anyway, so I will do just that later.


----------



## chinmie

daid1 said:


> I want to upgrade my buds, my budget is around the 170 euros, what is the earbud with the best image that you have tried?



best imaging /staging would be the Mojito, but i personally don't like it very much... too piercing on the treble and not an all arounder. nearest to the mojito with warmer sound and smoother highs would be the liebesleid. there is also the masya (good mids) and K's 500 or samsara (good bass), these also have good imaging


----------



## SweetEars

can someone try this on the nameless moon drop and describe the sound to me ?


----------



## daid1

chinmie said:


> best imaging /staging would be the Mojito, but i personally don't like it very much... too piercing on the treble and not an all arounder. nearest to the mojito with warmer sound and smoother highs would be the liebesleid. there is also the masya (good mids) and K's 500 or samsara (good bass), these also have good imaging



Piercing and sibilance for me is a problem, I'm a little bit sensitive to the high, and the liebesleid is a little bit pricey


----------



## seanc6441

Danneq said:


> I sold my pair of Shozy Cygnus right after I got my pair of QFred. QFred is by far the best midcentric earbud I've heard. Unfortunately it is a bit limited because of that and mainly genres that focus on vocals and/or acoustic instrument brings the QFred to their full potential. For that reason I might skip this new one. I still like to keep QFred because it can bring a nice change to my other earbuds that have a more even FQ response....



Well if it’s a more balanced version of what you described I may be forced to consider it at the least. Although I have many balanced earbuds with strongmid range but I’ll definitely keep it at the top of my wish list lol


chaiyuta said:


> @seanc6441 : Don't buy any earbuds more. Save up money for a new TOTL badminton racket likes YONEX DUORA 10 better. lol
> 
> Back to topic, my BS1 Official 2.5 mm. Plug has surpassed 10 hours burn-in. It becomes better and better than the very first hours. Once it was out of box, it is mediocre sound. From my memory (which can be wrong), now I have to say detail retrieval from this one is beyond Shozy BK performance. For my ears, the sound tendancy is somewhat upgraded Toneking TO200 sound. Better textured bass, better sub-bass response, more transparency and smooth vocal, the height and depth of sound stage is higher, the width of soundstage might be not much less than TO200. (I still feel Kinera buds is wider soundstage than both TO200 and BS1) However, I don't think this is the real sound of BS1 Official cause It just 10+hours burn-in.



Well that’s encouraging. Cannot wait to hear mine now 

And no I won’t be changing my racket for a long time I love my Victor BS12 too much!


----------



## cqtek

SweetEars said:


> its the same one i have...what u mean by upside down i dont really get it... maybe they may sound better if the holes are opened up



I will try to explain better my problem with the sound of new MX760 graphene: 
I only want to say that if I change the left earbud and I put it on the right ear, and I put the right earbud on the left ear, the sound changes for me a lot of. Maybe it's a problem with the shape of my ears.
I only want to know if somebody has the same problem like me. Probably the assymetric shape of MX760 capsule don't fit well in my ears.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 13, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> can someone try this on the nameless moon drop and describe the sound to me ?



Without a point of reference it’s almost impossible to gauge the ability of an earbud on any track. For instance unless he/she says it’s ‘X’ amount better than EMX500 (common bud you both own) at treble detail for example, you won’t be able to put his/her opinion into any kind of perspective.

One persons ‘clear and transparent’ is anothers ‘muddy and congested’ depending on what they have heard before, and also some subjective opinion, different ears etc.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 13, 2017)

cqtek said:


> I will try to explain better my problem with the sound of new MX760 graphene:
> I only want to say that if I change the left earbud and I put it on the right ear, and I put the right earbud on the left ear, the sound changes for me a lot of. Maybe it's a problem with the shape of my ears.
> I only want to know if somebody has the same problem like me. Probably the assymetric shape of MX760 capsule don't fit well in my ears.


You can buy a 3.5mm adapter which switches the R L channels.

So you could just use it to have the buds reversed but not mess up the audio


----------



## seanc6441

daid1 said:


> To bright it would be a problem, I'll like something balanced, neutral. Diomnes Lv2 could be my choice but also shipping to Abnormal the old Monk to make the Diomnes costs so much


There’s a second hand ‘great condition’ shozy cygnus limited edition earbud in the FS section for £115.

As described by the seller and forum member ClieOS, it has a sound quality equal to the Shozy BK. It’s got a bigger bass presence, warmer and a more ‘fun sound’.

The cable is pure silver and the buds form factor is excellent for almost anyones ears (I consider it the best for comfort and many others do too).

Not sure how you feel about second hand products but the seller has many audio products and seems like he cares about his gear as it’s quite premium stuff. The buds look in very good condition judging by the pictures.

So if you like warmer bassy sound but also probably some sweet treble (regular cygnus has sweet rolled off treble which is non fatiging but detailed, it’s really nice treble) with the added bonus of an extremely rare earbud (only 200 ever made) for a good price. Maybe that’s an option.

Or you check out the penon bs1 official, it’s $99 ($60 if you buy the $39 penon bs1 first) and the 2 reviews/opinions I havd heard so far giving glowing recommendations with a smooth balanced sound, extended but polite ‘smoother’ treble.

Might also be what your looking for.


----------



## SweetEars

seanc6441 said:


> Without a point of reference it’s almost impossible to gauge the ability of an earbud on any track. For instance unless he/she says it’s ‘X’ amount better than EMX500 (common bud you both own at treble detail, you won’t be able to put his/her opinion into any kind of perspective.
> 
> One persons ‘clear and transparent’ is anothers ‘muddy and congested’ depending on what they have heard before, and also some subjective opinion, different ears etc.


so if u have both can u compare?


----------



## seanc6441

SweetEars said:


> so if u have both can u compare?


sadly not I don’t have the Nameless. But you see my point? It’s not a reliable/accurate way to judge sq. But I guess it’s better than no opinion at all.


----------



## Danneq

daid1 said:


> Piercing and sibilance for me is a problem, I'm a little bit sensitive to the high, and the liebesleid is a little bit pricey



I have been hyping it the last few weeks and I can hype it a bit more: Yincrow RW-777. It is a step down from TOTL earbuds, but the soundstage and imaging is excellent. They are a bit lean/thin sounding but not at all sibilant or bright. They don't work well with rock or metal because of the "lean" type of sound but with more atmospheric and/or multi layered music with acoustic instruments they are brilliant. They are sold for around $45-50, but if you are lucky you can perhaps find them for around $40.


----------



## SweetEars

anyone interested to test this 1994 rahman soundtrack  . this will test the full spectrum of sound i guess.


----------



## daid1

seanc6441 said:


> There’s a second hand ‘great condition’ shozy cygnus limited edition earbud in the FS section for £115.
> 
> As described by the seller and forum member ClieOS, it has a sound quality equal to the Shozy BK. It’s got a bigger bass presence, warmer and a more ‘fun sound’.
> 
> ...



I don't mind if it is used, but it is almost at the same price of the Bk new, it is worth the costs? 



Danneq said:


> I have been hyping it the last few weeks and I can hype it a bit more: Yincrow RW-777. It is a step down from TOTL earbuds, but the soundstage and imaging is excellent. They are a bit lean/thin sounding but not at all sibilant or bright. They don't work well with rock or metal because of the "lean" type of sound but with more atmospheric and/or multi layered music with acoustic instruments they are brilliant. They are sold for around $45-50, but if you are lucky you can perhaps find them for around $40.


It is true that my only concern is that the earbuds have a great imaging and stage representation, and I'm sensitive to harsh, spikes, piercing high, and so I'm intrigued to these Rw777, but if they are a step down from totl earbuds, I think I'll look for another one


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 13, 2017)

daid1 said:


> I don't mind if it is used, but it is almost at the same price of the Bk new, it is worth the costs?
> 
> 
> It is true that my only concern is that the earbuds have a great imaging and stage representation, and I'm sensitive to harsh, spikes, piercing high, and so I'm intrigued to these Rw777, but if they are a step down from totl earbuds, I think I'll look for another one




Well I cannot confirm it has a mediumbig soundstage but probably not because the other shozy earbuds have a medium size soundstage or atleast it feels ‘close’ because of the sound presentation of forward mids and vocals. So maybe it’s not ideal. However the imaging is excellent on both my shozy earbuds, especially the bk. I’d say it’s worth the price because the bk is abit harsh on the treble unless you use heigi donut foams, my cygnus is smoother and I use monk thin foams. So the ‘special’ cygnus I assume follows that trend, but best to ask the seller first.

I’m thinking the new penon bs1 official sounds like a good choice now but read this review first to decide https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2017/12/10/penon-bs1-official/

seems like an all rounder earbud with smooth treble so it’s great if you plan on using one earbud as your daily audio.


----------



## HungryPanda

SweetEars said:


> can someone try this on the nameless moon drop and describe the sound to me ?




I just listened to this track with both EMX500 and Moondrop Nameless. Drums are thicker with the EMX500 but to me the drums are more natural on the Nameless. The vocals sound the same on both. The keyboard work sounds wider on the nameless. The Nameless needed a bit more volume than the EMX500


----------



## j4100

How come I get informed of this just after I have spent more money on buds? New K's flagship.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...95ohm-High-Impedance/1825606_32845120233.html


----------



## daid1

seanc6441 said:


> Well I cannot confirm it has a mediumbig soundstage but probably not because the other shozy earbuds have a medium size soundstage or atleast it feels ‘close’ because of the sound presentation of forward mids and vocals. So maybe it’s not ideal. However the imaging is excellent on both my shozy earbuds, especially the bk. I’d say it’s worth the price because the bk is abit harsh on the treble unless you use heigi donut foams, my cygnus is smoother and I use monk thin foams. So the ‘special’ cygnus I assume follows that trend, but best to ask the seller first.
> 
> I’m thinking the new penon bs1 official sounds like a good choice now but read this review first to decide https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2017/12/10/penon-bs1-official/
> 
> seems like an all rounder earbud with smooth treble so it’s great if you plan on using one earbud as your daily audio.



From that review it seems that these bs1 official going on for me. 
It is already valid the chance to take the bs1 experience and then the official with discount? 

In the meantime thanks to all for the help


----------



## SweetEars

HungryPanda said:


> I just listened to this track with both EMX500 and Moondrop Nameless. Drums are thicker with the EMX500 but to me the drums are more natural on the Nameless. The vocals sound the same on both. The keyboard work sounds wider on the nameless. The Nameless needed a bit more volume than the EMX500


Thank you my friend. That's why I needed to know.   Somehow my new version Graphens have opened up in sound and this clip below you can try and tell me. It somehow sound better on the new graphene than the  emx500. Can't explain why


----------



## 7UPguy

I finally made up my mind and ordered the Edifier H185 from Amazon. They should be here Tuesday.


----------



## luckyeights

So what does the current TOTL earbud line up look like now?  Iv been away for a few months and just recently came back and saw the new penon bs1 official which seems nice.  That new K's earphone is different from anything iv seen from them before which kind of concerns me.  Iv never been a fan of graphene drivers at least not yet any way they always sound harsh to me and cause fatigue and some times pain if i listen to them for too long.


----------



## waynes world (Dec 13, 2017)

HungryPanda said:


> The K's K600 is my favourite earbud whilst sitting at my desk. It is akin to having a regular headphone on but it does like a bit of juice so it has to be amped. The EBX is easy to drive and much better built it is solid with changeable cable.



How much juice? I wonder if, for example, the Fiio E12 or Cayin C5 would do them justice.

Edit: The C5 puts out 800mW + 800mW (32 ohm load), and the E12 puts out >880 mW @ 32 ohms, so I'm pretty sure those should be able to handle the K600's.


----------



## waynes world

SweetEars said:


> Thank you my friend. That's why I needed to know.   Somehow my new version Graphens have opened up in sound and this clip below you can try and tell me. It somehow sound better on the new graphene than the  emx500. Can't explain why




Face it - you're becoming a "grapheny head" lol


----------



## SweetEars

waynes world said:


> Face it - you're becoming a "grapheny head" lol


i have a problem understanding that .. elaborate pls!


----------



## HungryPanda

SweetEars said:


> Thank you my friend. That's why I needed to know.   Somehow my new version Graphens have opened up in sound and this clip below you can try and tell me. It somehow sound better on the new graphene than the  emx500. Can't explain why




I only have the old (original) graphenes but listening to this track with those and the EMX500 I find the difference is the vocal is more clear and spacious on the graphene, the EMX500 drowns it under the backing music. I then listened with the Seahf AWK-F32T and that sounded much more balanced of all


----------



## SweetEars (Dec 13, 2017)

HungryPanda said:


> I only have the old (original) graphenes but listening to this track with those and the EMX500 I find the difference is the vocal is more clear and spacious on the graphene, the EMX500 drowns it under the backing music. I then listened with the Seahf AWK-F32T and that sounded much more balanced of all


well on the new graphenes it sounds better in terms of the soundstage depth articulation but in all  other  aspects the emx 500 is better.

what about this? try this:


----------



## silverfishla

HungryPanda said:


> I only have the old (original) graphenes but listening to this track with those and the EMX500 I find the difference is the vocal is more clear and spacious on the graphene, the EMX500 drowns it under the backing music. I then listened with the Seahf AWK-F32T and that sounded much more balanced of all


I am a fan of the Seahf AWK-F32T too.  We may have similar tastes, since I see we are in agreement on a lot buds!   The Seahf is very balanced and smooth sounding.  A great budget bud.


----------



## HungryPanda

waynes world said:


> How much juice? I wonder if, for example, the Fiio E12 or Cayin C5 would do them justice.
> 
> Edit: The C5 puts out 800mW + 800mW (32 ohm load), and the E12 puts out >880 mW @ 32 ohms, so I'm pretty sure those should be able to handle the K600's.


 I have only used them with my Fostex HPA4BL. I will try them with a couple of daps, too busy listening right now to my new DSQM Z&W Panda PK2s that I received today


----------



## HungryPanda

silverfishla said:


> I am a fan of the Seahf AWK-F32T too.  We may have similar tastes, since I see we are in agreement on a lot buds!   The Seahf is very balanced and smooth sounding.  A great budget bud.


I have a few Seahf earbuds I really like their sound


----------



## Orac (Dec 13, 2017)

I found some junk earbuds that I think came with a cheap (dumb) mobile phone. No good for listening to music, but I thought it might be an indicator of what to look for in terms of fit. Somewhat predictably for me, the fit is hopeless because my ears stick out a bit. These things just slide sideways into the ear canal and end up sounding weirdly muffled and like they're echoing from a distance. Absolutely no way to make them stay on my ear with a proper orientation

Diameter is very close to 17 mm and there are no foams with them. The question is, are these so typical of earbud size that I should just give the idea entirely, or should I look for something significantly larger or smaller? I've used IEMs for years, so the last time I had earbuds was when I was probably 12-14 years old, but I don't remember fit problems, perhaps because of foams and maybe relatively smaller ears back then?

Anyone think they have enough knowledge and experience of earbud fit to hazard a guess on what I should look for to get something right for my ears?


----------



## ctaxxxx (Dec 13, 2017)

j4100 said:


> How come I get informed of this just after I have spent more money on buds? New K's flagship.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...95ohm-High-Impedance/1825606_32845120233.html



Both strength, is also idol pie?...


----------



## audiobot

SweetEars said:


> well on the new graphenes it sounds better in terms of the soundstage depth articulation but in all  other  aspects the emx 500 is better.
> 
> what about this? try this:



you are making me laugh with the stealth vids. Is there another part of the forum to do that? It's distracting.


----------



## chaiyuta

@Orac : I will re-post from Earbuds Anonymous Facebook Group agian here.

Please see this ear anatomy.. You have to put earbud inside 1-2-3. If you can do just 1, it means you never put that earbuds in properly. Please choose other smaller earbuds. If you can do 1-2, you could still use it but you might not hear a same sound that producer intents to. If you can put it inside 1-2-3, It means you get perfect fitting. Diameter of typical MX500 shell is 16.8 mm., PK or Shozy shell is 16.1-16.3 mm., Rose Mojito or Masya is around 15.5 mm. For much more shell type, please look up to the credit link. Hope this helps.



 

Credit to Doctor Komkrit : Link


----------



## Orac

chaiyuta said:


> @Orac : I will re-post from Earbuds Anonymous Facebook Group agian...


Thank you so much, that's an excellent reply


----------



## SweetEars

Something to share 

http://fukuoka-prize.org/en/laureate/prize/gra/arrahman.php

By his world-famous music, Mr. A. R. Rahman has opened up a new arena for film music, and has become a driving-force of this field to gain it a new recognition. His bold fusion of traditional South Asian, classical Western and popular contemporary American hip-hop and other music has created a number of unforgettable tunes with pleasing melodies and a powerful beat. They have become synonymous with the films for which he wrote them, and resonate in many hearts.


----------



## SweetEars

audiobot said:


> you are making me laugh with the stealth vids. Is there another part of the forum to do that? It's distracting.


my friend i dont understand what u mean.


----------



## waynes world

SweetEars said:


> my friend i dont understand what u mean.



He means that all of the videos that you post are distracting. I would suggest either limiting the video posts, or at least putting them into spoilers to reduce the clutter.



Spoiler


----------



## mbwilson111 (Dec 13, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> Something to share
> 
> http://fukuoka-prize.org/en/laureate/prize/gra/arrahman.php
> 
> By his world-famous music, Mr. A. R. Rahman has opened up a new arena for film music, and has become a driving-force of this field to gain it a new recognition. His bold fusion of traditional South Asian, classical Western and popular contemporary American hip-hop and other music has created a number of unforgettable tunes with pleasing melodies and a powerful beat. They have become synonymous with the films for which he wrote them, and resonate in many hearts.



Maybe you should start a A. R. Rahman appreciation thread.  You are starting to derail this thread again.  We understand that you are a fan.  Anyone here who wants to know more about him will do a search of their own.


----------



## Orac (Dec 13, 2017)

chaiyuta said:


> @Orac


I'm looking at more photos of my own ears, interestingly I don't really have a pronounced bump at the antitragus, and the space between antitragus and the ridge at 3 is relatively tall, so it seems the preferred fit area on my ear isn't at all close to ideal. I guess I need to get surgery so I can wear full size headphones...


----------



## jogawag

Orac said:


> I'm looking at more photos of my own ears, interestingly I don't really have a pronounced bump at the antitragus, and the space between antitragus at the ridge at 3 is relatively tall, so it seems the preferred fit area on my ear isn't at all close to ideal. I guess I need to get surgery so I can wear full size headphones...


Do not worry. You can use Gom/Silicone rings.


----------



## j4100

HungryPanda said:


> ...too busy listening right now to my new DSQM Z&W *Panda* PK2s...



I see what you did there.


----------



## Orac

jogawag said:


> Do not worry. You can use Gom/Silicone rings.


Could I trouble you to point me at some examples? I'm just quick look on eBay and Aliexpress, but so far not turning up any results. And just to be certain, should I be searching for "gom" or is this an alternate spelling for "gum?" Thanks!


----------



## HungryPanda (Dec 13, 2017)

Orac said:


> Could I trouble you to point me at some examples? I'm just quick look on eBay and Aliexpress, but so far not turning up any results. And just to be certain, should I be searching for "gom" or is this an alternate spelling for "gum?" Thanks!


https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...870.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.4c9fdd13uai4Sy

Search for Headphone rubber ring on aliexpress


----------



## jogawag (Dec 14, 2017)

Orac said:


> Could I trouble you to point me at some examples? I'm just quick look on eBay and Aliexpress, but so far not turning up any results. And just to be certain, should I be searching for "gom" or is this an alternate spelling for "gum?" Thanks!


Sorry Gom->Gum.
-This is deleted because link is to banned shop...
https://aliexpress.com/item//32324321353.html
Otherwise, you may be able to find rings with keywords "SENNHEISER 558452" OR "SENNHEISER 563605" OR "SENNHEISER 538215".


----------



## rkw

j4100 said:


> New K's flagship.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...95ohm-High-Impedance/1825606_32845120233.html





ctaxxxx said:


> Both strength, is also idol pie?...


What do the 4 color choices mean? Are they just cable colors, or different cables internally? The price range for the variations is very wide (US $186.25 - $243.75) but they don't explain what the differences are.


----------



## Orac

HungryPanda said:


> ...Search for Headphone rubber ring on aliexpress





jogawag said:


> Sorry Gom->Gum...  ....find rings with keywords...


Thanks again, now I'm armed with enough information to (hopefully) find a good solution. No worries on gom vs gum, I had the faintest inkling I'd seen it that way before


----------



## ctaxxxx (Dec 13, 2017)

rkw said:


> What do the 4 color choices mean? Are they just cable colors, or different cables internally? The price range for the variations is very wide (US $186.25 - $243.75) but they don't explain what the differences are.



The colors are just identifiers. If you hover over the mouse you will see the following:

Black - 3.5mm with mic
Yellow - 3.5mm with no mic
Purple - 2.5mm balanced
Grey - 3.5mm balanced

A TOTL bud with a mic is interesting. I might have gotten this in 2.5mm if it wasn't for Cypherus' new announcement.


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> I have only used them with my Fostex HPA4BL. I will try them with a couple of daps, too busy listening right now to my new DSQM Z&W Panda PK2s that I received today


How do you rate them? The pk2s.


----------



## Danneq

daid1 said:


> It is true that my only concern is that the earbuds have a great imaging and stage representation, and I'm sensitive to harsh, spikes, piercing high, and so I'm intrigued to these Rw777, but if they are a step down from totl earbuds, I think I'll look for another one



Overall they are a step down from TOTL earbuds, but in the areas of soundstage, imaging and clarity they punch way above their price and can compete with some TOTL earbuds.

But no, not quite TOTL...


----------



## HungryPanda

seanc6441 said:


> How do you rate them? The pk2s.


 Just got them a few hours ago so still need a bit of burn in, first impression is they are slightly more v-shaped than the PK2


----------



## euge

Tempted to get those K's Earphone Ling instead of the BS1, but the cable looks really cheap :/ 
It's also uses Graphene drivers could be interesting


----------



## RuFrost

Did anybody heard anything about Planar-magnetic earbuds like the one which are mentioned here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1365#post-13526830


----------



## vladstef (Dec 13, 2017)

So after a month of messing with my DIY earbud I can definitely say that the future of earbuds is in Final Piano Forte style housing. I actually realized why this type of housing isn't as popular as it should be, it's problematic to tune without a specific driver frequency response.
The reason it's amazing is the fit, you get all of the driver's capability without fitting issues yet it doesn't isolate like IEMs do, it also widens the sound stage and sounds as open as any earbud.
Final has the monopoly when it comes to in ear earbuds (don't really have the word to go by) but the form factor should be additionally explored at different price points just so that a wider audience gets their hands on this kind of thing.

E: I know that some people classify this as an IEM just because it goes deeper in canal but this is definitely an earbud as it uses an earbud driver 15-16mm and it's completely open - in the canal as well as large front and back vents.


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> Just got them a few hours ago so still need a bit of burn in, first impression is they are slightly more v-shaped than the PK2


Thanks, I was hoping they were striving for a balanced sound with more bass than the original to make it even more balanced but if it’s V shaped I’m a little disappointed.

Oh well I’ll listen to them when they arrive and see how I feel about em.


----------



## HungryPanda

maybe v-shaped is a bit strong, bass seems a bit more as does treble but mids are still sweet


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> maybe v-shaped is a bit strong, bass seems a bit more as does treble but mids are still sweet


Ok we shall see. Are you enjoying them compared to the graphene , emx500or seahf 150?


----------



## HungryPanda

very much so, but listening with my K's K200 at the moment


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## SweetEars

hey guys i have a little bit mor emoney to spend now. not been following  the earbuds on the expensive category but is there any earbuds that are in $50 -$100 range that resemble the EMX500 but better?


----------



## RodRevenge

So


HungryPanda said:


> I only have the old (original) graphenes but listening to this track with those and the EMX500 I find the difference is the vocal is more clear and spacious on the graphene, the EMX500 drowns it under the backing music. I then listened with the Seahf AWK-F32T and that sounded much more balanced of all


Do you know what's the difference between the seahf 32- T,S and P? I tried asking to Jim but he just linked me to the S and said "buy this" lol.


----------



## SweetEars

i am thinking of buying the old graphenes from the store that cannot be named. Any advice?


----------



## SweetEars

the old graphenes have 15hz- 35000hz frequency response
the new graphenes have 10-22000Hz frequency response technically speaking which is better?


----------



## chinmie

SweetEars said:


> the old graphenes have 15hz- 35000hz frequency response
> the new graphenes have 10-22000Hz frequency response technically speaking which is better?



Any frequency beyond 20-20.000 hz will not be caught by your ears, so that numbers don't mean a thing..so don't worry about it.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 13, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> the old graphenes have 15hz- 35000hz frequency response
> the new graphenes have 10-22000Hz frequency response technically speaking which is better?


Technically speaking i’d choose the 10-22000 as it *may possibly potentially maybe questionably (Probably not) *be better since the sub bass rumble might be felt SLIGHTLY more although I’m not sure what the lower hearing limit is.

Whereas the treble cut off point for even the best of young ears is like 16000-18000hz and beyond that is silent to our ears.

@chinmie is right though, as long as the range is 20-20000 or greater it’s not relevant.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 13, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> i am thinking of buying the old graphenes from the store that cannot be named. Any advice?


Don’t? If you have money saved for something up to $100 then I wouldn’t buy the graphene’s and reduce the budget to @75 so to speak.

I mean budget earbuds are nice to own but if I could pool all the money i spent on earbuds under 20 together and put it towards a TOTL earbud i would.

Unless your aim is to own a big collection of earbuds, once you move up you cannot move back down (at least for me personally).

As for what to get I think the Rose Masya is something you’d love as ‘articulation’ and ‘transparency’ seem to be words you use a lot lol. It’s like an improved emx500 but doesn’t neglect the mid range!

Only possible issue is the thinner sound but i’m fairly confident that is a source synergy thing and not a common problem as im the only once to complain about it.

Until I hear the penon ‘official’ bs1 I cannot say if it’s suitable to your taste or not. Looks incredible though 

I think the ks samsara was mentioned before as an upgrade to the emx500, maybe check that out also.


----------



## RobinFood

vladstef said:


> So after a month of messing with my DIY earbud I can definitely say that the future of earbuds is in Final Piano Forte style housing. I actually realized why this type of housing isn't as popular as it should be, it's problematic to tune without a specific driver frequency response.
> The reason it's amazing is the fit, you get all of the driver's capability without fitting issues yet it doesn't isolate like IEMs do, it also widens the sound stage and sounds as open as any earbud.
> Final has the monopoly when it comes to in ear earbuds (don't really have the word to go by) but the form factor should be additionally explored at different price points just so that a wider audience gets their hands on this kind of thing.
> 
> E: I know that some people classify this as an IEM just because it goes deeper in canal but this is definitely an earbud as it uses an earbud driver 15-16mm and it's completely open - in the canal as well as large front and back vents.



I know what you mean about that comfort. I saw a few buds at the store that were shaped like the apple ones, like a small bean that you fit in your ear with a port pointing directly into your ear canal, and they were extremely comfortable.

I really liked the new Sony STH32 for that form factor, and it had a nice warm sound too. Really nice and comfortable.
I know Bose also has a series of half-earbuds in their collection, but they are expensive and I haven't tried any for fit.


----------



## SweetEars

seanc6441 said:


> Technically speaking i’d choose the 10-22000 as it *may possibly potentially maybe questionably (Probably not) *be better since the sub bass rumble might be felt SLIGHTLY more although I’m not sure what the lower hearing limit is.
> 
> Whereas the treble cut off point for even the best of young ears is like 16000-18000hz and beyond that is silent to our ears.
> 
> @chinmie is right though, as long as the range is 20-20000 or greater it’s not relevant.


in the 2 earbuds i own the graphene and EMX500 with frequency ranges not being typical. they have a better soundstage..  and reading about KZ Zs6 IEms i realised that this has something to do with the sound stage,


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 14, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> in the 2 earbuds i own the graphene and EMX500 with frequency ranges not being typical. they have a better soundstage..  and reading about KZ Zs6 IEms i realised that this has something to do with the sound stage,


I’ve never heard of frequency range determining the soundstage. Not sure what to think about that other than to say I don’t really see how that’s related since you can only hear 20-20000 (realistically less) and almost every earbud is above the human ears capabilities in that regard.

Nah I don’t believe that sorry lol

Do you have a link to the article? I’d check it out tomorrow just out of curiosity!


----------



## SweetEars

listenign to the  new version graphenes this song sounds better than the EMX 500.. but i not sure if the frequency range of 10-220000hz u say the sub bass can be felt... it can be heard though


----------



## seanc6441

SweetEars said:


> listenign to the  new version graphenes this song sounds better than the EMX 500.. but i not sure if the frequency range of 10-220000hz u say the sub bass can be felt... it can be heard though




You cannot hear anything below 20hz if chinmies numbers are correct, I think they are. The human ears limitations are reached before the earbuds so it does not matter if it reaches 20hz or 1 hz you won’t hear a difference. Whether you feel a difference (vibration) is another question which I’m unsure about.


----------



## SweetEars

seanc6441 said:


> Don’t? If you have money saved for something up to $100 then I wouldn’t buy the graphene’s and reduce the budget to @75 so to speak.
> 
> I mean budget earbuds are nice to own but if I could pool all the money i spent on earbuds under 20 together and put it towards a TOTL earbud i would.
> 
> ...


Hmm those above $100 out of range for at this moment
 what u described about the Rose Masya seems  to be similar to the new version graphenes. Not sure about this.. but is it possible these new version graphenes are trying to emulate the Rose Masya sound?

The benefit of owning multiple earbuds is that u can mix and match the synergy with different devices.


----------



## SweetEars

seanc6441 said:


> You cannot hear anything below 20hz if chinmies numbers are correct, I think they are. The human ears limitations are reached before the earbuds so it does not matter if it reaches 20hz or 1 hz you won’t hear a difference. Whether you feel a difference (vibration) is another question which I’m unsure about.


i can feel the substantial vibration in the EMX500 even some rattling..


----------



## chinmie

SweetEars said:


> listenign to the  new version graphenes this song sounds better than the EMX 500.. but i not sure if the frequency range of 10-220000hz u say the sub bass can be felt... it can be heard though




actually it's the opposite : you can't hear below 20 hz (infrasound), but your body can definitely feel them through vibrations and air pressure. it relates a lot to feelings like fear and such. there's a lot of info on the net if you would like to dig deeper into it. i don't think an earbud is capable of such things because producing that kind of low frequency needs a lot of power.

besides, from what i learned when recording and mixing, most of us would just put a high pass filter on bass and kick drums (and other low instruments) at around 50hz, and high pass other instruments at an even higher point. 

as for high frequency, your ears will hear less and less of them as we grow older (even faster if you don't take care of your ears). I'm pushing 40, and i can only hear 20 to 15.000 hz now. 

and yes, we also put low pass filters on guitars, vocals, and other tracks when mixing too


----------



## SweetEars

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...t-Vocal-and-bass-Earbud-With/32844001319.html

well considering to buy this though....


----------



## j4100

chinmie said:


> besides, from what i learned when recording and mixing, most of us would just put a high pass filter on bass and kick drums (and other low instruments) at around 50hz, and high pass other instruments at an even higher point.
> ...
> and yes, we also put low pass filters on guitars, vocals, and other tracks when mixing too



Out of interest, why would you do this?


----------



## rkw (Dec 14, 2017)

vladstef said:


> So after a month of messing with my DIY earbud I can definitely say that the future of earbuds is in Final Piano Forte style housing.
> ...
> *Final has the monopoly when it comes to in ear earbuds*


Except for cheap Chinese knock-offs (literally 1/10th the price of genuine Final from Japan, which can be very expensive).


----------



## chinmie

j4100 said:


> Out of interest, why would you do this?



because in most cases, all we need is the fundamental frequencies of the that particular instrument..especially if the track is many (20 or 30 tracks, even more). if we don't do that low and high pass filters, we'll run out of headroom fast, not to mention the instruments will mask/blur others, loosing separation and cloud up the staging.
on a less busy tracks, we don't necessarily need to cut out too much frequency


----------



## chaiyuta

@SweetEars : Why don't you just buy or tried something likes Sony headphone MDR-1A (3-100,000Hz) then try something called 'tia fourte' (5-22kHz) and find answer by yourself instead of keep asking others here frequently, and keep posting music videos here..


----------



## euge

chaiyuta said:


> @SweetEars : Why don't you just buy or tried something likes Sony headphone MDR-1A (3-100,000Hz) then try something called 'tia fourte' (5-22kHz) and find answer by yourself instead of keep asking others here frequently, and keep posting music videos here..



I own a MDR-1ADAC barely ever take it out, the soundstage sucks on these closed back headphones...


----------



## daid1

Danneq said:


> Overall they are a step down from TOTL earbuds, but in the areas of soundstage, imaging and clarity they punch way above their price and can compete with some TOTL earbuds.
> 
> But no, not quite TOTL...



Can I ask with what earbud can compete? As a point of comparison


----------



## Danneq

daid1 said:


> Can I ask with what earbud can compete? As a point of comparison



Well, I'm thinking of earbuds that I currently own, such as ABnormal Diomnes Lv2 and Cypherus Red Dragon. And also Aiwa HP-D9 (vintage earbud from the early 90's). You can see what earbuds I own on my profiles page. Rose Mojito has got a big soundstage as well, but a bit too bright for me.


----------



## vladstef (Dec 14, 2017)

rkw said:


> Except for cheap Chinese knock-offs (literally 1/10th the price of genuine Final from Japan, which can be very expensive).



Yeah, I know about these, you still need to go over 200$ and even then it's questionable what you'll get.
I made my pair for around 30$, bought casing on sale and tried EMX500 and MS16 drivers, currently sticking with MS16. I posted in DIY earbud thread how it ended up, however, that thread is not active at all.


----------



## RobinFood

vladstef said:


> Yeah, I know about these, you still need to go over 200$ and even then it's questionable what you'll get.
> I made my pair for around 30$, bought casing on sale and tried EMX500 and MS16 drivers, currently sticking with MS16. I posted in DIY earbud thread how it ended up, however, that thread is not active at all.



Awesome, do you have a link?
How did they sound?
Have you compared it to a real one?


----------



## acap13

chinmie said:


> actually it's the opposite : you can't hear below 20 hz (infrasound), but your body can definitely feel them through vibrations and air pressure. it relates a lot to feelings like fear and such. there's a lot of info on the net if you would like to dig deeper into it. i don't think an earbud is capable of such things because producing that kind of low frequency needs a lot of power.
> 
> besides, from what i learned when recording and mixing, most of us would just put a high pass filter on bass and kick drums (and other low instruments) at around 50hz, and high pass other instruments at an even higher point.
> 
> ...



This is actually a very underrated point so far. And I find it is true. Thanks for sharing it here.


----------



## SweetEars

if i am not wrong the new graphene have a wider soundstage than the old? correct me.. thanks


----------



## vladstef

RobinFood said:


> Awesome, do you have a link?
> How did they sound?
> Have you compared it to a real one?



There are some on aliexpress just type in final audio - none of these look to be any good. I actually found a bunch of these DIY builds on taobao by searching ie800 (go figure...) - these often have amazing looking cables so I suspect some might be close to the real thing, translate the comments if you really want to dig and find the one to gamble on.
I've heard Final's Piano Forte VIII and it's special, but not an all rounder. Actually, my build with some heavy eq (reducing a bunch of lower mids but going high-gain on LG V20 to compensate with hardware aplification) is a much much more balanced sounding unit but doesn't have that mid range magic of the PF VIII. They are comparable though - budget earbud drivers are trully amazing and that's why it's possible to do this kind of comparison even if we are talking about 30 times less expensive buds.


----------



## RobinFood

I mostly meant a link to your project. It sounds like a nice project.

I don't really trust the Chinese knock offs, I would always doubt the sound coming from them.

They don't use any tips?


----------



## zozito (Dec 14, 2017)

Excuseme...could I know what happened with that store that cannot be named?


----------



## chinmie

Listening to this (Edifier H101) strangely resemble listening to IEM, thin mids compared to other earbuds but clear and clean, big bass, and black background, as if it blocks outside noise (which of course it doesn't, because it's still an earbud). Sounds similar to the Ty Hi Z32 but with better tuning and cleaner sound. It does need a higher volume to drive it though. Nice and pleasant surprise for an impulse buy


----------



## wskl

zozito said:


> Excuseme...could I know what happened with that store that cannot be named?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chi...iems-amps-dacs.684159/page-2008#post_12676708


----------



## zozito

wskl said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chi...iems-amps-dacs.684159/page-2008#post_12676708


Thank you, mate.


----------



## groucho69

SweetEars said:


> i can feel the substantial vibration in the EMX500 even some rattling..



That sounds more like a problem than a positive feature.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 14, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> Hmm those above $100 out of range for at this moment
> what u described about the Rose Masya seems  to be similar to the new version graphenes. Not sure about this.. but is it possible these new version graphenes are trying to emulate the Rose Masya sound?
> 
> The benefit of owning multiple earbuds is that u can mix and match the synergy with different devices.


Yeah I should adjust my statement and say if you’re looking to own a collection of earbuds and use them all for different occasions then there’s no problem with buying many budget earbuds, it’s just I know from owning a few premium earbuds that spending that extra $25 on a premium earbud can make a difference can make a difference sometimes. Depends on the earbud I guess.

Buy whatever you feel you’ll enjoy the most! More earbuds or one TOTL!


----------



## rkw

RobinFood said:


> I mostly meant a link to your project. It sounds like a nice project.
> 
> I don't really trust the Chinese knock offs, I would always doubt the sound coming from them.
> 
> They don't use any tips?


They do not use tips. They do not form a seal in the ear for an open sound.

Here is @vladstef's project: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/page-41#post-13803158


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Yeah I should adjust my statement and say if you’re looking to own a collection of earbuds and use them all for different occasions then there’s no problem with buying many budget earbuds, it’s just I know from owning a few premium earbuds that spending that extra $25 on a premium earbud can make a difference can make a difference sometimes. Depends on the earbud I guess.
> 
> Buy whatever you feel you’ll enjoy the most! More earbuds or one TOTL!



When you're like me, on a budget, and you _need_ to have _fun_ buying a pair of earbuds per month to satiate HFCAS ("Head-Fi Consumerism Addiction Syndrome"), then budget-buds for the win! Besides, I find budget-fi earbuds these days to sound very good. Even though I have the Zens, I still quite enjoy the budget buds (and they allow me to enjoy lots of different sound signatures). 

Another factor is that I don't enjoy the process of selling gear, so it's more of a gamble for me to spend a lot on iems/earbuds (and then not like them for some reason).


----------



## vladstef

rkw said:


> They do not use tips. They do not form a seal in the ear for an open sound.
> 
> Here is @vladstef's project: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/page-41#post-13803158



Thanks for linking it!
I've been updating these daily for the past month, they are seriously worth the hassle. Currently they produce almost motion sickness inducing 3D sound with some music, in the best way possible (Epic Mountain - What Are You for example).
Earbuds generally do this well so imagine boosting their sound stage and depth. I assume that it has something to do with large chamber of free air in the back as well as having the driver further away from your eardrum, because driver actually ends up being almost outside of your ear when you wear them.

Now that more people are going to see this, just know that the Piano Forte shells have flaws, they boost bass-mid range and form strong peaks in the treble while simultaneously reducing it overall - pretty bad news but if you manage it, you get something unique. To my ears, they sound like open back headphones with stronger sub bass than expected, it's also very strange experiencing this huge sound out of something small which also improves the experience in a way and induces wow effects all the time. Not to mention price/performance ratio. (requires good parametric EQ and amplification if you don't want to use software to boost frequencies)


----------



## luckyeights

Well i ordered the penon bs1 experience and then messaged them about getting the official yesterday morning but have not gotten a response yet.


----------



## chaiyuta

OMG. why BS1 hype so fast. If it is not good for your ears. Please don't blame me. haha


----------



## fairx (Dec 14, 2017)

chinmie said:


> Listening to this (Edifier H101) strangely resemble listening to IEM, thin mids compared to other earbuds but clear and clean, big bass, and black background, as if it blocks outside noise (which of course it doesn't, because it's still an earbud). Sounds similar to the Ty Hi Z32 but with better tuning and cleaner sound. It does need a higher volume to drive it though. Nice and pleasant surprise for an impulse buy


 sound like ty 32 and cleaner you say..? I'm gonna try dig local online store for this one. Tq

Edit.

 Just scored one for less than 4 dollars shipped. The reviews on the store mostly positive. One reviewer even begs other people to drop other branded stuff and choose this instead. Lol

 Well. We'll  see in 2-3 days.


----------



## gazzington

Burning in panda pk2s right now. Sound pretty good out of the box but will see how they sound in 50hrs or so


----------



## waynes world

I guess I like the grapheny sound, because I also really like these cheapo **** PT15's. Same vibrant, exciting kind of sound as with the old graphenes, but with less bass. I'm not usually one to enjoy signatures with more energy in the highs because I usually find it fatiguing, but not so with these. Sounds great, especially considering the price. Also, they seem very nicely built for the price.


----------



## seanc6441

luckyeights said:


> Well i ordered the penon bs1 experience and then messaged them about getting the official yesterday morning but have not gotten a response yet.


I contacted them via email on the webpage and received a response the same day. How did you contact them?


----------



## luckyeights

chaiyuta said:


> OMG. why BS1 hype so fast. If it is not good for your ears. Please don't blame me. haha



Its all your fault, I blame you for everything! Including the cold weather where I am at..... J/K    I ordered it because the reviews seem to make it sound like a darn good bud and the build appears to be top notch as well.  I mean you were not the only one that made it sound like a totl bud there was that other review by audio123.  So I wanted to get it while it was still at a reduced price.  Penon didn't say what they were going to raise the price to it might be $1,000 after this sale ?   Not really but never know =D   When i get it in it only has one objective and that is to beat my K's Samsara which I love and adore best bud so far imo so lets see if the BS1 can take its crown.


----------



## luckyeights

seanc6441 said:


> I contacted them via email on the webpage and received a response the same day. How did you contact them?



I used the contact link on their page and filled in the information.  Maybe they are just busy being so close to Christmas an all? I just hop ethey reply soon so im not stuck with just the experience hehe that be awful =(


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 14, 2017)

luckyeights said:


> I used the contact link on their page and filled in the information.  Maybe they are just busy being so close to Christmas an all? I just hop ethey reply soon so im not stuck with just the experience hehe that be awful =(



I wouldn’t start sweating just yet, it would be very odd to offer it to one customer (me) and not another. Maybe contact them through facebook if you don’t get a reply tomorrow.

Only other thing I can think of is maybe you made a typo when giving your email? I mean it’s unlikely? but to be sure you can message them on FB to be sure.

Infact the post they made on facebook was literally informing people to buy the bs1 and bs1 official as it works out a better deal obviously. Hope it works out soon for you!


----------



## j4100

waynes world said:


> I guess I like the grapheny sound, because I also really like these cheapo **** PT15's. Same vibrant, exciting kind of sound as with the old graphenes, but with less bass. I'm not usually one to enjoy signatures with more energy in the highs because I usually find it fatiguing, but not so with these. Sounds great, especially considering the price. Also, they seem very nicely built for the price.



Good to hear. I was reading on here about on or two users having problems with the cable detaching if they moved around too much. I might have the opposite problem, one of the buds was torture to get the cable on. Given I had two cables to try, it was definitely the bud. I have no intention of trying to remove it for a while. Burning away at the moment - I should add that I'm sceptical about burning in, but do it to remove any mental block about not doing it 

I'm not a wordy person and probably will not be writing any reviews, but I'll post my thoughts on my recently assembled earbud collection over the next couple of weeks.


----------



## waynes world

j4100 said:


> Good to hear. I was reading on here about on or two users having problems with the cable detaching if they moved around too much. I might have the opposite problem, one of the buds was torture to get the cable on. Given I had two cables to try, it was definitely the bud. I have no intention of trying to remove it for a while. Burning away at the moment - I should add that I'm sceptical about burning in, but do it to remove any mental block about not doing it
> 
> I'm not a wordy person and probably will not be writing any reviews, but I'll post my thoughts on my recently assembled earbud collection over the next couple of weeks.



No problem with the cable detaching - they are quite secure lol. Threw on some thicker foams, and that helps bring out a bit more bass and tone down the highs just a bit. Even though they are more bass light that I normally go for, they still sound really great (and that`s without any burn in yet).

Btw, I tried them with the HB1 bluetooth headband, but there is no way I can get them to sit in my ears properly over-ears.


----------



## chinmie

fairx said:


> sound like ty 32 and cleaner you say..? I'm gonna try dig local online store for this one. Tq
> 
> Edit.
> 
> ...



i hope you like it. i also purchase this on a whim, because there's a sale on my local webstore for about 2 dollars. I'm hesitant to try them before because it ranks far below H180 on clieos list. I'm glad that i did try, because i like this one better than the H180. this (H101) joins the H185 and Vido as my most favorite budget buds list



waynes world said:


> I guess I like the grapheny sound, because I also really like these cheapo **** PT15's. Same vibrant, exciting kind of sound as with the old graphenes, but with less bass. I'm not usually one to enjoy signatures with more energy in the highs because I usually find it fatiguing, but not so with these. Sounds great, especially considering the price. Also, they seem very nicely built for the price.



have you compare them to the older version of PT15 (the 4 vent holes version)?


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> have you compare them to the older version of PT15 (the 4 vent holes version)?



No, I don`t have the 4 vent hole version.


----------



## HungryPanda

(EB200).............


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> (EB200).............



When HungryPanda speaks, I listen. And sometimes I think to myself "What the heck is Hungry trying to tell me??? I need to know!!!" LOL


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> When HungryPanda speaks, I listen. And sometimes I think to myself "What the heck is Hungry trying to tell me??? I need to know!!!" LOL



that you should stock up... about a dozen of them


----------



## chaiyuta

Now my BS1 Official passed 20+ hours burn-in,  It becomes less warm vocal (become more neutral) whilst bass impact hits harder (which reach my preference degree now). Though, the width of soundstage still same.


----------



## phower

j4100 said:


> Good to hear. I was reading on here about on or two users having problems with the cable detaching if they moved around too much. I might have the opposite problem, one of the buds was torture to get the cable on. Given I had two cables to try, it was definitely the bud. I have no intention of trying to remove it for a while. Burning away at the moment - I should add that I'm sceptical about burning in, but do it to remove any mental block about not doing it
> 
> I'm not a wordy person and probably will not be writing any reviews, but I'll post my thoughts on my recently assembled earbud collection over the next couple of weeks.


I have the 4 hole version. The left side cable was loose. I complained to the seller and he sent me a new cable. Meanwhile, I had ordered another MMCX cable. But, all 3 cables are loose on the left earbud. It looks like the MMCX socket is slightly bigger on 1 earbud. 

So, I put a *tiny,tiny,tiny* amount of super glue on the inside surface of the socket and it is a tight fit now and the cable doesn't fall out.


----------



## Jupiterknight (Dec 15, 2017)

waynes world said:


> When HungryPanda speaks, I listen. And sometimes I think to myself "What the heck is Hungry trying to tell me??? I need to know!!!" LOL


 That you should listen... with the right source/amplification, with music of your preference which might not work, but a chance you take!  Recable the EB200... to a more pleasant experience and who knows.. those silver plated cables.. sounds and feel much better 

What I meant to say.. the EB200 is actually a surprise...


----------



## SweetEars (Dec 15, 2017)

Saoshyant said:


> There are people that are cable believers and not on Head-Fi, so you will get two different answers.  There's no simple answer, however, and it's something you will have to make the decision on yourself.


i am not sure if cable makes a difference but scientitifically speaking it should.

i had this IEM called Melectronics M9 before i lost it. it was a $30-$50 IEM with normal rubber cable but i swear the soundstage ,  treble sparkle  and sub bass on those  were pretty awesome and the whole sound signature is like the vibrant kind. Their only drawbacks are  resolution and imaging....other than this, they were pretty good or shall i call it some early  budget-quality-value for money predecessor to those popular KZ series of IEMS. ( who knows they may be using the MEElectronics drivers too?)


----------



## SweetEars

golov17 said:


> VE Light series soon


any info about them??


----------



## seanc6441

SweetEars said:


> i am not sure if cable makes a difference but scientitifically speaking it should.
> 
> i had this IEM called Melectronics M9 before i lost it. it was a $30-$50 IEM with normal rubber cable but i swear the soundstage ,  treble sparkle  and sub bass on those  were pretty awesome and the whole sound signature is like the vibrant kind. Their only drawbacks are  resolution and imaging....other than this, they were pretty good or shall i call it some early  budget-quality-value for money predecessor to those popular KZ series of IEMS. ( who knows they may be using the MEElectronics drivers too?)


The science is usually claimed to be on the ‘against’ side also depending on who you listen to. I’m still curious myself and remain in the middle as i’m not sure to believe or disbelieve in ‘hifi’ cables.

At one stage I was convinced that the ‘hifi’ setting on tidal delivering FLAC audio was superior to Spotify’s 320kbps mp3/obs format on certain tracks. I listened to one track A/B testing over and over again and was sure Tidal sounded more crisp, I was using my Shozy Cygnus at the time

I decided to re-visit the test a week later when I dropped Tidal just to see what I was missing again. This time with the Shozy Stardust, a more detailed earbud, I heard absolutely no difference no matter how hard I tried to analyse it...

So yeah I’m not sure what to think about cables, the only thing I’m sure about is that I won’t be spending big money on anything I’m unsure about at this moment.


----------



## chaiyuta

@seanc6441 : Why don't you just re-cable your lovely shozy stardust to be a stock rubbery black cable one.. Then you will find only your own answer.


----------



## vladstef

seanc6441 said:


> The science is usually claimed to be on the ‘against’ side also depending on who you listen to. I’m still curious myself and remain in the middle as i’m not sure to believe or disbelieve in ‘hifi’ cables.
> 
> At one stage I was convinced that the ‘hifi’ setting on tidal delivering FLAC audio was superior to Spotify’s 320kbps mp3/obs format on certain tracks. I listened to one track A/B testing over and over again and was sure Tidal sounded more crisp, I was using my Shozy Cygnus at the time
> 
> ...



Similar thing with me. I do know one thing, there are inferior cables for sure in the extra-budget segment (not all of them, some), but once you get a decent 10-30$ cable, spending more money mostly gets you better build quality/looks and barely noticeable sound changes if any. I mostly notice a difference between copper and silver cables and this is what I would recommend - always get 2 cheaper cables of different kinds before a single expensive cable (this obviously doesn't apply to people who already have multitude of cables).


----------



## seanc6441

chaiyuta said:


> @seanc6441 : Why don't you just re-cable your lovely shozy stardust to be a stock rubbery black cable one.. Then you will find only your own answer.


ok I’ve removed the boring ‘stock’ braided cable and dumped it. Applying the new shiny black plastic cable I bought for $1 wish me luck guys )


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 15, 2017)

vladstef said:


> Similar thing with me. I do know one thing, there are inferior cables for sure in the extra-budget segment (not all of them, some), but once you get a decent 10-30$ cable, spending more money mostly gets you better build quality/looks and barely noticeable sound changes if any. I mostly notice a difference between copper and silver cables and this is what I would recommend - always get 2 cheaper cables of different kinds before a single expensive cable (this obviously doesn't apply to people who already have multitude of cables).


In the dac/amp world there’s high end digital cables for USB to USB for DAC that have all this ‘special’ qualities like silver lined, gold usb connectors and all this marketing stuff.

They sell for up to $1000!!! But it’s snake oil.

Listening to someone who knows a lot about digital cables and how they work he said USB is a digital connection not analog and it cannot be enhanced by matierials as it’s just 1/0 signals being sent too and from the devices... So basically you’re average $5 usb cable will perform equally to these $1000 ‘audiophile’ usb cables.

This is why I’m dubious. There’s so much snake oil in the audio business that it’s difficult to discern what actually has merit or not.


----------



## SweetEars

could someone actually explain in terms of musicality whats the difference between the old graphenes and the emx500?


----------



## phower

seanc6441 said:


> So yeah I’m not sure what to think about cables, the only thing I’m sure about is that I won’t be spending big money on anything I’m unsure about at this moment.



It is relevant for loudspeakers only since their impedance varies from 2 to 10 ohms and the impedance of the cable will influence the FR.  But, almost all earbuds/headphones have constant impedance and the cable's impedance should have no impact. 

Even for some headphones with varying impedance like HD6XX/7XX the output impedance of the amplifier has a bigger impact than cable impedance.

Stop believing in pseudo-science and enjoy the music.


----------



## groucho69

seanc6441 said:


> In the dac/amp world there’s high end digital cables for USB to USB for DAC that have all this ‘special’ qualities like silver lined, gold usb connectors and all this marketing stuff.
> 
> They sell for up to $1000!!! But it’s snake oil.
> 
> ...



I worked at a connector manufacturer in my career and I can tell you that the "improvement" is in your head. Marketing Horse Hockey! I had some idiot at Staples try to sell me a $60 USB cable for a printer I was buying because it had gold connectors. After I finished laughing and got up off the floor I told him that I knew that the amount of gold on that was no more than 1-2 cents worth that would be gone after 1 insertion, but that it was a nice try anyway.


----------



## groucho69

phower said:


> It is relevant for loudspeakers only since their impedance varies from 2 to 10 ohms and the impedance of the cable will influence the FR.  But, almost all earbuds/headphones have constant impedance and the cable's impedance should have no impact.
> 
> Even for some headphones with varying impedance like HD6XX/7XX the output impedance of the amplifier has a bigger impact than cable impedance.
> 
> Stop believing in pseudo-science and enjoy the music.



Cable gauge can be a concern for speakers.


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> I guess I like the grapheny sound, because I also really like these cheapo **** PT15's. Same vibrant, exciting kind of sound as with the old graphenes, but with less bass. I'm not usually one to enjoy signatures with more energy in the highs because I usually find it fatiguing, but not so with these. Sounds great, especially considering the price. Also, they seem very nicely built for the price.



You have me wanting to listen with my Senfers... will do so tonight.  Too many things have come into this house too fast.


----------



## mbwilson111

groucho69 said:


> I worked at a connector manufacturer in my career and I can tell you that the "improvement" is in your head. Marketing Horse Hockey! I had some idiot at Staples try to sell me a $60 USB cable for a printer I was buying because it had gold connectors. After I finished laughing and got up off the floor I told him that I knew that the amount of gold on that was no more than 1-2 cents worth that would be gone after 1 insertion, but that it was a nice try anyway.



...and I bet the printer actually worked with a less expensive cable!

Years ago when I shopped at stores like Best Buy or Staples for any type of equipment I always asked a few questions that I knew the answers to... so I could determine if THEY knew what they were talking about.


----------



## seanc6441

groucho69 said:


> I worked at a connector manufacturer in my career and I can tell you that the "improvement" is in your head. Marketing Horse Hockey! I had some idiot at Staples try to sell me a $60 USB cable for a printer I was buying because it had gold connectors. After I finished laughing and got up off the floor I told him that I knew that the amount of gold on that was no more than 1-2 cents worth that would be gone after 1 insertion, but that it was a nice try anyway.


Same goes for HDMI cables when buying a new TV, they’re all the same. But many customers will be fooled into buying $75 ‘premium’ RAREitanium cable.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 15, 2017)

mbwilson111 said:


> ...and I bet the printer actually worked with a less expensive cable!
> 
> Years ago when I shopped at stores like Best Buy or Staples for any type of equipment I always asked a few questions that I knew the answers to... so I could determine if THEY knew what they were talking about.


It’s a digital signal so unless the cable is so poor quality that it breaks due to durability issues it’ll work flawlessly. That’s why it’s such a scam to sell expensive digital cable (hdmi, usb), because it has zero benefits over a basic version performance wise.


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> ...and I bet the printer actually worked with a less expensive cable!



funny that isn't it?


----------



## luckyeights

I believe cables can affect analogue signals to a degree but nothing drastic enough to warrant purchasing expensive cables.  I think so long as the cable is of good quality copper or silver and is of the appropriate gauge it should be fine.  Really cheap crappy cables may be of poor quality copper and may not be the appropriate gauge for the headphone.  With that being said there are very few instances where this would be the case.


----------



## rkw

seanc6441 said:


> Same goes for HDMI cables when buying a new TV, they’re all the same. But many customers will be fooled into buying $75 ‘premium’ RAREitanium cable.


No, they actually do work! Just look at the questions/answers and customer reviews on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-Diamond-6-56-Braided-Cable/dp/B003CT2A2M/


----------



## Saoshyant

All I'd want from an mmcx is a cable using the mx985 jack like the Yinman 600 cable.  Don't miss the earbud but do miss it's cable.


----------



## seanc6441

rkw said:


> No, they actually do work! Just look at the questions/answers and customer reviews on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-Diamond-6-56-Braided-Cable/dp/B003CT2A2M/


I always get a laugh out of funny amazon reviews. Brilliant


----------



## mbwilson111

luckyeights said:


> I believe cables can affect analogue signals to a degree but nothing drastic enough to warrant purchasing expensive cables.  I think so long as the cable is of good quality copper or silver and is of the appropriate gauge it should be fine.  Really cheap crappy cables may be of poor quality copper and may not be the appropriate gauge for the headphone.  With that being said there are very few instances where this would be the case.



I only change cables if the stock one breaks or is too long, too short, ugly or annoying in some way.  I do not expect sound changes and I do not spend a huge amount of money.  Most of the cables I  have changed have been with headphones as those are the ones that may not have the length I want.

I changed the cable on my KZ ZS6 to improve comfort....plus it looks a little nicer as well.

I have not changed any bud cables.  I think only have one that is removable.


----------



## seanc6441

I got an email from Penon saying my BS1’s are shipped with tracking and should arrive before christmas possibly next week 

They have a great customer service as I felt like I was dealing with an actual person rather than a sales rep with standardized responses.

@luckyeights did you get in contact with them today? hope you get your buds man


----------



## luckyeights (Dec 15, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> I got an email from Penon saying my BS1’s are shipped with tracking and should arrive before christmas possibly next week
> 
> They have a great customer service as I felt like I was dealing with an actual person rather than a sales rep with standardized responses.
> 
> @luckyeights did you get in contact with them today? hope you get your buds man




I setn a second message last night before I went to bed still no response to either messages.  I got an email that the BS1 experience shipped but that is it.  Do you have a direct email address by chance for them from your back and forth conversations with them?  

Also what plug did you get on yours SE or balanced?   I have been mulling over the idea of getting it in balanced for that one day moment when i actually get a balanced setup but the idea of carrying around an adapter kind of turns me off to the idea.


----------



## seanc6441

@luckyeights 

service@penon-official.com is the email address I’ve been communicating with.


----------



## groucho69

rkw said:


> No, they actually do work! Just look at the questions/answers and customer reviews on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-Diamond-6-56-Braided-Cable/dp/B003CT2A2M/



LMAO


----------



## mbwilson111 (Dec 15, 2017)

rkw said:


> No, they actually do work! Just look at the questions/answers and customer reviews on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-Diamond-6-56-Braided-Cable/dp/B003CT2A2M/



Hurry!  There are only 10 left.

Oh no!  They do not ship to my location 

My favorite part... product questions and answers:

Question:
 Will this turn my Toshiba 32 inch CRT into an LG 65 inch 4k? 
Answer:
This cable defies logic. Because it conducts electricity so fast it warps space and time and may expand the space so your 32 inch looks bigger. Trouble is it also distorts reality.
So suggest save your money go to dollar store and buy an HDMI cable and with the saved cash buy a new 65 inch 4K.
HDMI is digital, 1;s and zeros. It either works or it does not. All or nothing. The encoding algorithm of HDMI reduces data transitions. If you have a marginal cable you may see white sparkels on video due to minor data loss. All these high end cables are just snake oil hype. But then this particular cable may be infused with alien technology...or not.  see less  
By moose on August 17, 2016
 See more answers (2)


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> Hurry!  There are only 10 left.
> 
> Oh no!  They do not ship to my location
> 
> ...



But I already drank the cool aide?


----------



## SweetEars

mbwilson111 said:


> I only change cables if the stock one breaks or is too long, too short, ugly or annoying in some way.  I do not expect sound changes and I do not spend a huge amount of money.  Most of the cables I  have changed have been with headphones as those are the ones that may not have the length I want.
> 
> I changed the cable on my KZ ZS6 to improve comfort....plus it looks a little nicer as well.
> 
> I have not changed any bud cables.  I think only have one that is removable.


what is yr impression of the KZ ZS6 sound vs graphene?


----------



## mbwilson111

SweetEars said:


> what is yr impression of the KZ ZS6 sound vs graphene?



I will not even attempt to compare an IEM with a bud.  You have never expressed interest in IEMs before.  Are you interested?  If you are, there are a few threads for those.


----------



## chaiyuta

OMG.. Why this thread runs wild off-topic. In Head-fi there are many cable threads, please look around there. Scientifically, as long as you don't try abx test or buy a FR measurement device for testing, you don't know true. The person who tried many enough test cases, never blame. The person who never tried or just tried a few categorized test cases but read other articles enough which could be bias experiment always blame with their own convincing knowledge.

Finally this is just hobby. Buy something you likes. Sell something you don't wanna own.


----------



## luckyeights

seanc6441 said:


> @luckyeights
> 
> service@penon-official.com is the email address I’ve been communicating with.




Thank you.  They replied to my direct email to them.  They did not get my emails from the website they are going to have their techs investigate it.  They are going to be shipping my bs1 official to me next week =D


----------



## HungryPanda

Go wild with iems, you never know


----------



## Jupiterknight

In my modest opinion... the graphene, new or old etc,  is way more pleasurable to my ears than KZ ZS6,  better balance and no piercing high treble..   sound stage, out of the head experience is much better! 
Fit and isolation... all factors that brings up completely different discussion and need/preference and therefore not really fair to compare IEM's vs, earbuds!  I use both for different needs and situations, none is better than the other!


----------



## SweetEars

Jupiterknight said:


> In my modest opinion... the graphene, new or old etc,  is way more pleasurable to my ears than KZ ZS6,  better balance and no piercing high treble..   sound stage, out of the head experience is much better!
> Fit and isolation... all factors that brings up completely different discussion and need/preference and therefore not really fair to compare IEM's vs, earbuds!  I use both for different needs and situations, none is better than the other!


the problem with iem is soundstage.. not very wide..


----------



## waynes world

After all of that pt15 higher end energy goodness, putting the warmer Seahf 150's into my ears was an "Ahhhh, that feels good" kinda experience


----------



## Jupiterknight (Dec 16, 2017)

and after a few drinks wayne


----------



## waynes world

Jupiterknight said:


> and after a few drinks wayne



That never hurts the SQ lol


----------



## Jupiterknight

waynes world said:


> That never hurts the SQ lol


I guess I have to try out those PT15 you have been ranting about for so long,  cheap, and most likely similar prices or less to whatever alcoholic fluids that you're enjoying in you cold neck of the woods  while listening to various guitar riffs!
Cheers mate!


waynes world said:


>


----------



## fairx

My edifier h101 just arrived. I agree the comparison to ty32. Same brightness but cleaner highs. Also slight emphasis on lower highs and more air over ty32. Bass is lower than ty32. Quality are on par.not very textured. Just an early impression with stock foams. I really like the extended highs reminds me of Sennheiser sound. Mids is ok. Separation and imaging  are decent enough and punch way  above price. Overall a bright and clear earbud. 

Will burn and put semi porous foams and amp when I get back home.


----------



## seanc6441

chaiyuta said:


> OMG.. Why this thread runs wild off-topic. In Head-fi there are many cable threads, please look around there. Scientifically, as long as you don't try abx test or buy a FR measurement device for testing, you don't know true. The person who tried many enough test cases, never blame. The person who never tried or just tried a few categorized test cases but read other articles enough which could be bias experiment always blame with their own convincing knowledge.
> 
> Finally this is just hobby. Buy something you likes. Sell something you don't wanna own.



Just to clarify I was talking about digital cable not earbud/headphone analog cable. I definitely don’t know or have not experienced enough about that area to have any beliefs on it.

Or maybe your comment is directed elsewhere. Either way let's move on.


----------



## luckyeights

Has anyone tried these yet?  

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...923.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.7745a9a75J73qo

I want to know what they sound like if anyone has purchased them?


----------



## HungryPanda

I have the NiceHCK EBX and they are very good earbuds.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Dec 16, 2017)

luckyeights said:


> Has anyone tried these yet?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...923.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.7745a9a75J73qo
> 
> I want to know what they sound like if anyone has purchased them?



a search within the thread brings up this review and other comments
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-ebx.22771/

all I did was type EBX in the search box above and tick the box that says search within this thread... I am at my PC at the moment

on mobile apps I believe you can just use the little search bar that has recently been added

I know someone else is getting ready to do a full review.


----------



## doggiemom

SweetEars said:


> Something to share
> 
> http://fukuoka-prize.org/en/laureate/prize/gra/arrahman.php
> 
> By his world-famous music, Mr. A. R. Rahman has opened up a new arena for film music, and has become a driving-force of this field to gain it a new recognition. His bold fusion of traditional South Asian, classical Western and popular contemporary American hip-hop and other music has created a number of unforgettable tunes with pleasing melodies and a powerful beat. They have become synonymous with the films for which he wrote them, and resonate in many hearts.


For the love of all things holy, please stop with the Rahman links and videos!  I and a couple others asked you politely last weekend and you chilled out for a bit, but it is starting up again.  Please stop!  (And maybe use the time that you are not posting Mr. A. R. Rahman videos to learn to use the multiple quote option).  Thank you in advance.


----------



## eaglesgift

doggiemom said:


> For the love of all things holy, please stop with the Rahman links and videos!  I and a couple others asked you politely last weekend and you chilled out for a bit, but it is starting up again.  Please stop!  (And maybe use the time that you are not posting Mr. A. R. Rahman videos to learn to use the multiple quote option).  Thank you in advance.


Yep, I agree. This is not even related to earbuds and it's getting really annoying.


----------



## mbwilson111

doggiemom said:


> For the love of all things holy, please stop with the Rahman links and videos!  I and a couple others asked you politely last weekend and you chilled out for a bit, but it is starting up again.  Please stop!  (And maybe use the time that you are not posting Mr. A. R. Rahman videos to learn to use the multiple quote option).  Thank you in advance.



I think maybe he has stopped now. 
Also, there are posting guidelines on site...


----------



## doggiemom

mbwilson111 said:


> I think maybe he has stopped now.
> Also, there are posting guidelines on site...


Now he is asking about IEMs in an earbud thread.


----------



## doggiemom

I am waiting impatiently for the mail carrier to arrive, because it looks like my 11.11 order of K's 500 and K'600 are finally arriving!  I love the Samsaras, so looking forward to the K's high end shootout....... though now they have a new flagship......  it never ends..... poor wallet!


----------



## chaiyuta

This thread is going to become "Variety Round-up" thread.. Oh NoOoOoO...


----------



## mbwilson111 (Dec 16, 2017)

doggiemom said:


> I am waiting impatiently for the mail carrier to arrive, because it looks like my 11.11 order of K's 500 and K'600 are finally arriving!  I love the Samsaras, so looking forward to the K's high end shootout....... though now they have a new flagship......  it never ends..... poor wallet!



I have stopped... I promise.... I have one more thing coming that I am not even sure exists and then I am done.  I actually have been enjoying rediscovering things I got earlier on (headphones, buds, and iems)  and then put aside because too many new things came in too quickly.  This could not possibly be an addiction could it?  lol

I blame headfi!


----------



## j4100

doggiemom said:


> I am waiting impatiently for the mail carrier to arrive, because it looks like my 11.11 order of K's 500 and K'600 are finally arriving!  I love the Samsaras, so looking forward to the K's high end shootout....... though now they have a new flagship......  it never ends..... poor wallet!



I thought I was waiting a while on my order from the end of Nov and you are just getting your 11.11. I'll stop complaining 

My K's 600 will be next year before they get here. I'll be interested to hear how they sound compared to the Samsara. I think if I bought the Samsara first, I might not have bothered getting any other buds.


----------



## doggiemom

mbwilson111 said:


> This could not possibly be an addiction could it?  lol
> 
> I blame headfi!


It really is!  We should start a rehab thread.  

Fortunately, most of the earbuds we talk about here don't cost more than a dinner out, so we eat spaghetti once a week.    I started in this hobby with full-sized cans, and that was getting ridiculous.  I promised my husband I would stop with headphones (for awhile ) at CanJam when he agreed to purchasing the Utopias.  

I messed around with ChiFi IEMS briefly, but am now obsessed with buds since they allow me to hear my surroundings and other people at work.  Now I have this weird system for determining where buds are allowed to be used:
Jobs where I am handling chemicals:  Monk+, Qian 39 and Vidos only
Jobs where there are chemicals but I am not doing anything with them:  Earbud Thailand Black Lion, Tomahawks, Boarseman MX98s
Jobs where I'm sitting around:  K's 300 Samsara
Home use only:  CAX Black

If we could do a group for addiction to earbuds and OCD that would be great.


----------



## chaiyuta (Dec 16, 2017)

@doggiemom : Why your categories imply me that Monk+ is the highest chemical-resistant earbud...lol Also, early congrats that you will get Utopia (headphone? right) soon.


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> I have stopped... I promise.... I have one more thing coming that I am not even sure exists and then I am done.  I actually have been enjoying rediscovering things I got earlier on (headphones, buds, and iems)  and then put aside because too many new things came in too quickly.  This could not possibly be an addiction could it?  lol
> 
> I blame headfi!



Yes I have stopped as well....for 2017.


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> *I have stopped... I promise.... I have one more thing coming that I am not even sure exists and then I am done. *



I just wanted to quote and preserve the above so that it can come back to haunt you lol!



doggiemom said:


> I messed around with ChiFi IEMS briefly, but am now obsessed with buds since they allow me to hear my surroundings and other people at work.  Now I have this weird system for determining where buds are allowed to be used:
> Jobs where I am handling chemicals:  Monk+, Qian 39 and Vidos only
> Jobs where there are chemicals but I am not doing anything with them:  Earbud Thailand Black Lion, Tomahawks, Boarseman MX98s
> Jobs where I'm sitting around:  K's 300 Samsara
> ...



LOL! I thought I was the only one who messed around with chemicals who had an earbud for every occasion!


----------



## groucho69

waynes world said:


> I just wanted to quote and preserve the above so that it can come back to haunt you lol!
> 
> 
> 
> LOL! I thought I was the only one who messed around with chemicals who had an earbud for every occasion!



Funny how both of those thoughts went through my mind as well.


----------



## doggiemom

chaiyuta said:


> @doggiemom : Why your categories imply me that Monk+ is the highest chemical-resistant earbud...lol Also, early congrats that you will get Utopia (headphone? right) soon.


The system is not based on chemical resistance, it is based on price and rarity.    The items in the Monk+ category are inexpensive, so I have backups of each in case one is hurt in the line of duty.  They are also readily available, so reinforcements could be purchased at any time if needed.  The others are categorized based on cost and how difficult it would be to get a replacement.

Thank you, I bought the Utopias after the CanJam earlier in 2017, so I've been enjoying them for almost a year now.


groucho69 said:


> Yes I have stopped as well....for 2017.


Only 15 days to go........ you can do it.  Stay strong!


----------



## luckyeights

HungryPanda said:


> I have the NiceHCK EBX and they are very good earbuds.



Whats the sound signature like?  And do you have any other TOTL earbuds to give a quick comparison to?


----------



## mbwilson111

luckyeights said:


> Whats the sound signature like?  And do you have any other TOTL earbuds to give a quick comparison to?



I think he covered that in his review.  Did you go to the link I posted?


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> I just wanted to quote and preserve the above so that it can come back to haunt you lol!





groucho69 said:


> Funny how both of those thoughts went through my mind as well.



Well I left myself open for that.  Not surprised it came from you two.


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> Well I left myself open for that.  Not surprised it came from you two.



Me, a surprise? Never.


----------



## razysm_7

does anyone know is Hiege earbud foam thicker or thinner than Nicehck stock earbud foam / Audio technika foam?


----------



## chaiyuta

@razysm_7 : Hiegi sponge is thicker than Audio-Technica sponge.


----------



## golov17 (Dec 16, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> any info about them??


Venture Electronics VE monk lite Earbuds Hifi earphones
http://s.aliexpress.com/vIRFNZJn
 

https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=24


----------



## wokashraf

anyone can give me link for expansion pack foam VE monk plus on taobao? or it only sold at aliexpress?


----------



## jogawag (Dec 17, 2017)

wokashraf said:


> anyone can give me link for expansion pack foam VE monk plus on taobao? or it only sold at aliexpress?


The last two colors on https://aliexpress.com/item/ve-lite/32844964644.html
I do not know about taobao.


----------



## redkingjoe

Hello,

What are the TOTL earbuds now?

Thanks!



Danneq said:


> I
> 
> 
> 
> I recently sold my vintage Sony earbuds (E484, 282 & 252). E252 was my favorite of the bunch and all 3 can compete with most $100+ earbuds today. But my favorites among the current TOTL earbuds, Cypherus CAX black, CampFred & QFred, Diomnes Lv2, Shozy Stardust etc blow the old Sonys away. The vintage earbuds do sound different (a slightly more "dry" sound) and I have a soft spot for that special sound of the old Sony and Aiwa earbuds. But the current TOTL earbuds are just better soundwise. However, as collectors items you can never go wrong with E484 or 472...


----------



## golov17

wokashraf said:


> anyone can give me link for expansion pack foam VE monk plus on taobao? or it only sold at aliexpress?


https://shop101002046.m.taobao.com/


----------



## RodRevenge

j4100 said:


> I thought I was waiting a while on my order from the end of Nov and you are just getting your 11.11. I'll stop complaining
> 
> My K's 600 will be next year before they get here. I'll be interested to hear how they sound compared to the Samsara. I think if I bought the Samsara first, I might not have bothered getting any other buds.


Dude im still waiting for my end of october order, you are alright


----------



## chaiyuta

@redkingjoe : Hi, Long time no see.


----------



## waynes world

RodRevenge said:


> Dude im still waiting for my end of october order, you are alright



Brutal! I can barely handle 2 or 3 weeks. But closing in on 2 months and I start getting angry lol!


Spoiler: Me angry...


----------



## ballog

doggiemom said:


> Now he is asking about IEMs in an earbud thread.


Maybe..just maybe...(add spooky music)..he is the reincarnation of the infamous AkashS04!!!


----------



## wokashraf

jogawag said:


> The last two colors on https://aliexpress.com/item/ve-lite/32844964644.html
> I do not know about taobao.


thanks for AE link..but the shipping is 3usd..no free shipping option..


----------



## RodRevenge

waynes world said:


> Brutal! I can barely handle 2 or 3 weeks. But closing in on 2 months and I start getting angry lol!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Me angry...


Yeah im really angry i think im getting them tomorrow, sadly my 11.11 orders are from the same seller with the same shipping option.


----------



## snip3r77

If I have the Vido , am I wasting time with the monk lite?


----------



## eaglesgift

wokashraf said:


> thanks for AE link..but the shipping is 3usd..no free shipping option..


What’s worse is the shipping goes up with each pack you add. There’s no way their shipping cost is increasing with each pack; they weigh virtually nothing.


----------



## j4100

RodRevenge said:


> Yeah im really angry i think im getting them tomorrow, sadly my 11.11 orders are from the same seller with the same shipping option.



Oaft! That's a ridiculous length of time to wait.


----------



## UsaGins

Dark Helmet said:


> The old Graphne are significantly better than the new ones.



Could you tell me a bit more about this?


----------



## fairx (Dec 18, 2017)

Guys. Update on the edifier h101 that I left for burn before.

Today I start listening again and almost jump out of my couch listening to the track Mesin Cinta by The Squirts. Holy crap this might just be the most dynamic earbud I ever had. Before it belongs to ty 320 or tomahawk.

I had to test with other player, switch between poweramp and foobar 2k just to make sure it's not coloration by eq or dsp.

The guitar distortion / lower grunt is very pronounce bliss to listen to.  fluidity and coherence definitely  not budget level. This is beyond ty32 or ty 320 that I always adore when listening to metal.

And the the dynamic / stereo depth combination left me speechless. If this could be wider on stage than we have a budget king. The only downside is peak in 4.5k which can be tiring on certain track. Eq it down and it's tolerable (to my ears) crispness and cleanliness in midrange and highs reminds me of Sennheiser ie80 although separation is of course better on Sennheiser.

4.5k peak can be tamed with full foams but roll of the nice highs and muddy the bass slightly. So I opt to semi porous foam and eq. Will try dig my old ve foam to test.

The bass is very linear and dig lower than normal earbud  such as vido but not as deep as emx500 although quality is now improving. The decay is satisfying enough to listen to edm. I'm. Not sure if the bass is light or chameleon? Since the bas varying on each song. Perhaps the better dynamic is doing its magic.

This is very surprising since I felt apart from the cleanliness of the sound h101 did not offer anything special to differs it self from my other budget collection. I glad I let it burn first.

I'm still hesitating to post this to sound like a new you syndrome but what the heck. I belive what I heard.

Edit.
This earbud does not fare well with poor quality bitrate.


----------



## Danneq

redkingjoe said:


> Hello,
> 
> What are the TOTL earbuds now?
> 
> Thanks!



For me, it's pretty much the same as in the post you quoted. You can add Cypherus Red Dragon which is now no 1 for me. Moondrop Liebsleid is getting a lot of praise. I haven't heard it but looking at the price and build quality it certainly belongs among the TOTL earbuds...


----------



## chinmie

fairx said:


> Guys. Update on the edifier h101 that I left for burn before.
> 
> Today I start listening again and almost jump out of my couch listening to the track Mesin Cinta by The Squirts. Holy **** this might just be the most dynamic earbud I ever had. Before it belongs to ty 320 or tomahawk.
> 
> ...



Glad you like it. i also enjoy it a lot, and this is currently my most used buds for this couple of days. the H101 sound is unique. i haven't heard any other earbuds than sound like it.

like i said, it resembles more of an iem tuning than earbuds: it dips around 600k, creating a leaner and cleaner mids. the tuning sounds "expensive and professional"  . the bass focuses on subs rather than midbass, my favorite kind of tuning. 

i wonder if this thing is recabled with better quality cable, it might have a better resolution. 

I'm using full hiegi foams on it.


----------



## doggiemom

snip3r77 said:


> If I have the Vido , am I wasting time with the monk lite?


Haven't heard the Monk Lite, but if they are anything like the Monks (which I suspect they will be), they would not be redundant to the Vidos.  The Vidos and Monks are completely different sound signatures;  Vido is big and bassy, whereas Monk is vocal-centric and detailed.


----------



## SweetEars

chinmie said:


> Glad you like it. i also enjoy it a lot, and this is currently my most used buds for this couple of days. the H101 sound is unique. i haven't heard any other earbuds than sound like it.
> 
> like i said, it resembles more of an iem tuning than earbuds: it dips around 600k, creating a leaner and cleaner mids. the tuning sounds "expensive and professional"  . the bass focuses on subs rather than midbass, my favorite kind of tuning.
> 
> ...


sounds interesting...  so do u think its a different sort of signature?


----------



## noknok23

Danneq said:


> For me, it's pretty much the same as in the post you quoted. You can add Cypherus Red Dragon which is now no 1 for me. Moondrop Liebsleid is getting a lot of praise. I haven't heard it but looking at the price and build quality it certainly belongs among the TOTL earbuds...


I think samsara is excellent and shouldnt be disregarded because you can find it below 100usd on sale.  haven't took them off for 2 weeks straight. they are noticeably better than Seahf 650/Puresound 600 to my ears. The grainy treble I was talking about in an earlier feedback is now gone, its super clear and extended now. I will try to avoid to go into a rant and repeat myself but I think they are really really good and despite being "fun" it's very hard to get tired of them.


----------



## SweetEars

UsaGins said:


> Could you tell me a bit more about this?


hmm i posted a review...


----------



## chinmie

SweetEars said:


> sounds interesting...  so do u think its a different sort of signature?


yup. at least as far as what i have and previously had/heard on earbuds. try it, build is good, you might love them, even if you don't it will not cost you too much to try


----------



## SweetEars (Dec 18, 2017)

chinmie said:


> yup. at least as far as what i have and previously had/heard on earbuds. try it, build is good, you might love them, even if you don't it will not cost you too much to try


do u have any comparisons to graphenes and emx500? how about the depth of the soundstage?


----------



## SweetEars

it looks like this edifier H101 is sold in malaysia, which is basically next door to where i live ...


https://www.lazada.com.my/edifier-h101-high-quality-earphone-746795.html


----------



## fairx (Dec 19, 2017)

chinmie said:


> Glad you like it. i also enjoy it a lot, and this is currently my most used buds for this couple of days. the H101 sound is unique. i haven't heard any other earbuds than sound like it.
> 
> like i said, it resembles more of an iem tuning than earbuds: it dips around 600k, creating a leaner and cleaner mids. the tuning sounds "expensive and professional"  . the bass focuses on subs rather than midbass, my favorite kind of tuning.
> 
> ...


I've been thinking about possible recable as well. But the construction seem rather shaky. Especially the wobbly stem. I wonder it it's really flexible in nature. But it has 2 holes for cable. One not utilized.  Maybe it can fit another cable. I'll decide later to recable if I get another pair.

The chameleon bass I mention might be because of focus on sub bass rather than mid bass. But emx500 also do this but doesn't sound same. H101 sound not as wide but way atmospheric when sub bass is present. When the song didn't call for it the bass remain very tame.


----------



## SweetEars

fairx said:


> I've been thinking about possible recable as well. But the construction seem rather shaky. Especially the wobbly stem. I wonder it it's really flexible in nature. But it has 2 holes for cable. One not utilized.  Maybe it can fit another cable. I'll decide later to recable if I get another pair.
> 
> The chameleon bass I mention might be because of focus on sub bass rather than mid bass. But emx500 also do this but doesn't sound same. H101 sound not as wide but way atmospheric when sub bass is present. When the song didn't call for it the bass remain very tame.


it does  sound like an interesting articulation...


----------



## SweetEars

where to order this edifier H101? cant find it in aliexpress?


----------



## SweetEars

fairx said:


> I've been thinking about possible recable as well. But the construction seem rather shaky. Especially the wobbly stem. I wonder it it's really flexible in nature. But it has 2 holes for cable. One not utilized.  Maybe it can fit another cable. I'll decide later to recable if I get another pair.
> 
> The chameleon bass I mention might be because of focus on sub bass rather than mid bass. But emx500 also do this but doesn't sound same. H101 sound not as wide but way atmospheric when sub bass is present. When the song didn't call for it the bass remain very tame.



How does this sound liek on the eidfier H01? listen until 1:09


----------



## endia

ballog said:


> Maybe..just maybe...(add spooky music)..he is the reincarnation of the infamous AkashS04!!!



+1 : D


----------



## UsaGins

I will present some frequency characteristic charts.
You may be able to imagine what kind of sound it is from these.



Spoiler: ...


----------



## wokashraf

just getting my first earbud in a while..RY4S..good for the value that i pay..around 4 USD..haha..im happy


----------



## SweetEars

seanc6441 said:


> The best description so far was given by a user above (too lazy to check sorry lol) when he said it sounded 'veiled'. It's like there is a filter between you and the driver which is reducing the clarity/nuance of the music. This is especially through of vocals but the whole mid range is affected I believe.
> 
> I'd gladly accept a slight bass loss of pk2 rather than a veiled sound, which I find makes it difficult to enjoy the finer details of the music with the graphenes.
> 
> I wonder if extensive burn in (maybe 100-200 hours) and a powerful source would help clean up some of the veiled sound. But I don't know for sure.


i can confirm the new version graphenes the veil is gone after many days of usage.. i think they need to be burned in.


----------



## SweetEars

UsaGins said:


> I will present some frequency characteristic charts.
> You may be able to imagine what kind of sound it is from these.
> 
> 
> ...


friend can u explain to me the first one graphene old vs emx500


----------



## UsaGins

SweetEars said:


> friend can u explain to me the first one graphene old vs emx500



As @seanc6441, my grap hene thinks that the veil has decreased to about half now.
I think that the old graphene is slightly wider than the emx500 in the sound stage.
I think emx500 is a lot of bass. It is boomy bass. Since old graphene has a bass sound pressure, it may be about the same overall.
Since the attenuation of 1kHz - 3kHz emx500 is smooth, female vocals emx500 is brighter.
As I mentioned earlier, old graphene has veil.
Depending on the type of music you may feel that either is good.
I like old graphene and emx500 the same.


----------



## chinmie

SweetEars said:


> where to order this edifier H101? cant find it in aliexpress?





SweetEars said:


> it looks like this edifier H101 is sold in malaysia, which is basically next door to where i live ...
> https://www.lazada.com.my/edifier-h101-high-quality-earphone-746795.html



You have basically answered the question yourself 

You're in singapore, right? I'm sure if you shop around you will find them in your local stores, as the edifier is a more common brand compare to the chinese earbuds like the emx or the graphene. Heck, even computer stores sell edifiers



SweetEars said:


> How does this sound liek on the eidfier H01? listen until 1:09




Compared to the emx, the H101 has a more distant sound. Image you are sitting in the middle a movie theater (speakers far on the walls), while the emx is more like sitting in a small living room with surround speakers around you. Both have good staging, just that the emx is closer. Personally, i prefer the H101,but your preference might be different than me. 

Can't comment on the graphene as i have sold it. 



fairx said:


> I've been thinking about possible recable as well. But the construction seem rather shaky. Especially the wobbly stem. I wonder it it's really flexible in nature. But it has 2 holes for cable. One not utilized.  Maybe it can fit another cable. I'll decide later to recable if I get another pair.
> 
> The chameleon bass I mention might be because of focus on sub bass rather than mid bass. But emx500 also do this but doesn't sound same. H101 sound not as wide but way atmospheric when sub bass is present. When the song didn't call for it the bass remain very tame.



Please do post a review when you did decided to recable them. 

Yes, that sub bass.. Try watching action movies with them, or better yet, asian jump scare movies!


----------



## SweetEars (Dec 19, 2017)

chinmie said:


> You have basically answered the question yourself
> 
> You're in singapore, right? I'm sure if you shop around you will find them in your local stores, as the edifier is a more common brand compare to the chinese earbuds like the emx or the graphene. Heck, even computer stores sell edifiers
> 
> ...


thanks a lot friend... it looks like the sound signature i am looking for.. the new graphenes i have now seems to have a that soundstage as u described but their other characteristics about them puts me off . they only seem to do depth and soundstage better at the  expense of everything else..

anyway i need to go look for it .. if its available in local stores


----------



## fairx (Dec 19, 2017)

Today I settled for full foam on h101. No need EQ to sound smooth. As I listen further  the percussion tautness aren't affected at all. Very clean and snappy. Natural snappy not boosted though.

My friend came in to audition h101 and ordered one only after 15 minutes spending time with it. . It's a no brainer. But I can understand if someone didn't like the signature. The mid bass although very clean don't have quite a slam like other earbud. .


----------



## silverfishla

endia said:


> +1 : D


This has to be true! :?


----------



## vladstef

We should be talking about RY4s a lot more. It's a definitive upgrade to Vido and a sidegrade to EMX500. Compared to EMX, I hear RY4s' bass as stronger and a lot more stable, mid range similar, treble reduced by a solid amount - makes them dark sounding but still clearer than Vidos and at least as smooth, while the soundstage is just a notch narrower than EMX.
I'd say thay RY4s is a legit basshead earbud but amazing value overall regardless of tonality.


----------



## SweetEars (Dec 19, 2017)

vladstef said:


> We should be talking about RY4s a lot more. It's a definitive upgrade to Vido and a sidegrade to EMX500. Compared to EMX, I hear RY4s' bass as stronger and a lot more stable, mid range similar, treble reduced by a solid amount - makes them dark sounding but still clearer than Vidos and at least as smooth, while the soundstage is just a notch narrower than EMX.
> I'd say thay RY4s is a legit basshead earbud but amazing value overall regardless of tonality.


i have botht eEMX 500 and the R4YS and has done extensive testing , the major   differences is in  this: but they are both the same in sound signature 

Soundstage depth and air > EMX500 better
Positioning and separation > EMX500 better
Sub bass> EMX 500 better
Detail > EMX 500 better

Soundstage Vertical Horizontal > R4YS better
Mid bass > R4YS better
Clarity > R4YS better


----------



## chinmie

finally my black Monk-ish foams arrived! i really dig it, less itchy than the monk's, a little bit thicker and more robust, and although it holds a little bit more treble than the monk's, it doesn't disperse the treble frequency like the monk's does (which sometimes makes the treble seems splashy). it makes my Puresound PS 500 more alive

thanks for uncle @golov17 (if i'm not mistaken was the first one to mention this) and @seanc6441 for posting the AE link


----------



## gazzington

chinmie said:


> finally my black Monk-ish foams arrived! i really dig it, less itchy than the monk's, a little bit thicker and more robust, and although it holds a little bit more treble than the monk's, it doesn't disperse the treble frequency like the monk's does (which sometimes makes the treble seems splashy). it makes my Puresound PS 500 more alive
> 
> thanks for uncle @golov17 (if i'm not mistaken was the first one to mention this) and @seanc6441 for posting the AE link


Where do you get them from?


----------



## j4100

Might have been these ones that I got after someone posting a link on here.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...p-Ear-Pads-Cover-Replacement/32790634729.html


----------



## chinmie

gazzington said:


> Where do you get them from?



https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32790634729.html?spm=a2g0n.orderList.0.0.5ce6053e6JPcgx#autostay


----------



## fairx

chinmie said:


> finally my black Monk-ish foams arrived! i really dig it, less itchy than the monk's, a little bit thicker and more robust, and although it holds a little bit more treble than the monk's, it doesn't disperse the treble frequency like the monk's does (which sometimes makes the treble seems splashy). it makes my Puresound PS 500 more alive
> 
> thanks for uncle @golov17 (if i'm not mistaken was the first one to mention this) and @seanc6441 for posting the AE link


I ordered white form the same seller. Still no news. Tracking stop after ship out of China. The black I ordered the next day already arrived almost 2 weeks ago.


----------



## cocolinho

UsaGins said:


> I will present some frequency characteristic charts.
> You may be able to imagine what kind of sound it is from these.
> 
> 
> ...


Very instructive, thanks! it confirms that HP150s are crappy! Only the cable & the finish worth the price I paid new for them...


----------



## SweetEars

fairx said:


> I ordered white form the same seller. Still no news. Tracking stop after ship out of China. The black I ordered the next day already arrived almost 2 weeks ago.


would u want to try this  on the edifier h101 ?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Dec 20, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> would u want to try this  on the edifier h101 ?




How would this help?  Nobody knows how YOU want to hear it.  If someone is unfamiliar with the track they don't know how it "should" sound.  Plus you keep forgetting that everyone's hearing is different.  The shape of peoples ear canals differ.  No one can tell you what would be "perfect" for you.

You are posting too many videos.  Many people will already be listening to something else while browsing the site.  For example, i have buds plugged into a dap right now and am listening to one of my albums.


----------



## KevDzn

Original new Bgvp DX3 Metal Flat In-ear Earphones Noise isolating Fever Bass Earbuds DIY OFC cable Flat for phone/huawei/iphone
http://s.aliexpress.com/6BnQjmIv?fromSns=Copy
(from AliExpress Android)

Hi all, these mmcx earbuds looks GOOD! Especially the pricing!


----------



## snip3r77

SweetEars said:


> i have botht eEMX 500 and the R4YS and has done extensive testing , the major   differences is in  this: but they are both the same in sound signature
> 
> Soundstage depth and air > EMX500 better
> Positioning and separation > EMX500 better
> ...



Or just get Graphene to shorten the journey


----------



## theoutsider

mbwilson111 said:


> How would this help?  Nobody knows how YOU want to hear it.  If someone is unfamiliar with the track they don't know how it "should" sound.  Plus you keep forgetting that everyone's hearing is different.  The shape of peoples ear canals differ.  No one can tell you what would be "perfect" for you.
> 
> You are posting too many videos.  Many people will already be listening to something else while browsing the site.  For example, i have buds plugged into a dap right now and am listening to one of my albums.


I guess he failed to convert you    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## audiobot

If possible, can someone compare the Shozy BK to the CampFred 2? Or if there is something similar to these in the pantheon. Looking for TOTL earbud.


----------



## fairx

Man I have to rave h101 again lol. Further burn and listening over ear (not sure which) really improves holographic. I mean chesky tracks, Candido, Alexis Cole all sound very much in proximity. Spacious and almost real. This rivals at least semi open back headphones in spaciousness. 

This one destroy my other budget earbuds. Emx500? Vido? . Pffth.. This even excels against RX-1. IMO. I wish the resolution could be better, 

Disclaimer. I listened to earbud as loud as I can tolerate without being tiring.

Oh. One more . I really enjoy muthalvan Ost on this one. *wink wink*


----------



## mbwilson111 (Dec 20, 2017)

fairx said:


> Man I have to rave h101 again lol. Further burn and listening over ear (not sure which) really improves holographic. I mean chesky tracks, Candido, Alexis Cole all sound very much in proximity. Spacious and almost real. This rivals at least semi open back headphones in spaciousness.



I am very impressed with Edifier.  I have had the H190 for a few weeks now.  I have too many buds to give enough time to any individual one but I got them out again because of this recent discussion.  I am finding them to be very addictive sound-wise.  I am not able to describe these things the way you do, but I do have semi open back headphones that these rival.  

I became so curious that yesterday I ordered the H185 that I had once had my eye on.  Amazon lightning deal for £6.99 (around $8). They arrived today and they are excellent as well (out of the box... no burn in).  At the moment I feel like the H190 are somehow better... maybe because I can fit them more easily.  I have so many buds that I need to get to know better.  Both Edifiers that I have are quite stylish as well.



fairx said:


> Disclaimer. I listened to earbud as loud as I can tolerate without being tiring.



I listen with as low a volume as I can while still giving enough body to the music



fairx said:


> Oh. One more . I really enjoy muthalvan Ost on this one. *wink wink*



Well, that answers THAT question.


edited to fix replies being in the wrong order...yes I am OCD


----------



## lyrean

vladstef said:


> We should be talking about RY4s a lot more. It's a definitive upgrade to Vido and a sidegrade to EMX500. Compared to EMX, I hear RY4s' bass as stronger and a lot more stable, mid range similar, treble reduced by a solid amount - makes them dark sounding but still clearer than Vidos and at least as smooth, while the soundstage is just a notch narrower than EMX.
> I'd say thay RY4s is a legit basshead earbud but amazing value overall regardless of tonality.



It is great for some genres but IMO can be too sibilant in some tracks. There is no hint of sibilance in Vido/Yincrow X6.


----------



## Saoshyant

Take care with your hearing.  You may come to regret it when you're older.


----------



## Narayan23

SweetEars said:


> would u want to try this  on the edifier h101 ?




SweetEars you´re starting to become BlockedEars because you don´t seem to listen...you´ve been asked politely to curb your video enthusiasm in this thread, I´m all for good music and there´s a more appropriate section where you can share and post away to your heart´s content: https://www.head-fi.org/forums/music.9/   I´m sure I´m not alone in thinking your musical passion would be much better received  there.
The above is not to say your comments aren´t welcome, they are, your experiences and thoughts are as valid as anyone else´s just try to stick to the topic at hand. Thanks.


----------



## chellity (Dec 23, 2017)

SweetEars said:


> would u want to try this  on the edifier h101 ?




Can you not?

Do you see anyone else spamming this thread with videos?  certain people have a VERY hard time taking hints sometimes.  for the love of god, we have tried to be polite but STOP.

by the way, youtube audio quality is crap so youre spamming the thread with compressed videos.


----------



## jogawag (Dec 21, 2017)

lyrean said:


> It is great for some genres but IMO can be too sibilant in some tracks. There is no hint of sibilance in Vido/Yincrow X6.



The treble of "$9 Braided RY4S" is about the same as "EMX500" and it is not so strong. If there are people who feel strongly, it would be better to use a thicker ear pad.
Even compared to "Vido / X6" of bass Earbuds, I think that "$9 Braided RY4S" is excellent not only for bass but also for vivid treble and wider sound stage.
I think that "$9 Braided RY4S" has the highest level of performance as budget Earbuds.


----------



## mbwilson111

chellity said:


> by the way, youtube audio quality is **** so youre spamming the thread with compressed videos.



Good point.  One of the reasons I do not stop listening to my music to play posted videos.  If i want to check out some artists that  other headfiers are recommending. I will go to the appropriate threads.


----------



## SweetEars

fairx said:


> Man I have to rave h101 again lol. Further burn and listening over ear (not sure which) really improves holographic. I mean chesky tracks, Candido, Alexis Cole all sound very much in proximity. Spacious and almost real. This rivals at least semi open back headphones in spaciousness.
> 
> This one destroy my other budget earbuds. Emx500? Vido? . Pffth.. This even excels against RX-1. IMO. I wish the resolution could be better,
> 
> ...



Muthalvan by AR Rahman ...hmm i say its ok to test out earbud but not comprehensive as his other works ..Sometimes Rahman releases the type of OST which actually tests the full spectrum of sound. examples are Taal, Daud, Vande Mataram.


----------



## SweetEars

mbwilson111 said:


> How would this help?  Nobody knows how YOU want to hear it.  If someone is unfamiliar with the track they don't know how it "should" sound.  Plus you keep forgetting that everyone's hearing is different.  The shape of peoples ear canals differ.  No one can tell you what would be "perfect" for you.
> 
> You are posting too many videos.  Many people will already be listening to something else while browsing the site.  For example, i have buds plugged into a dap right now and am listening to one of my albums.


i understand what u mean..  for example the first song in this OST "Duet" should have powerful female vocals, some deep bass and  background sound transparency and u should hear the flute in the 2nd half with mid bass punch ..


----------



## groucho69

Obviously you do NOT understand. Ignore.


----------



## SweetEars

https://edifierglobal.aliexpress.com/store/3169011

i cant seem to find the H181 in the official store? why?


----------



## teesui

SweetEars said:


> https://edifierglobal.aliexpress.com/store/3169011
> 
> i cant seem to find the H181 in the official store? why?



Maybe you've got the model number wrong.

A quick google image search shows nothing exists with that model name/number.


----------



## jant71

Do you mean H101??


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 20, 2017)

Penon BS1 Official is a two thumbs up from me. Needed an hour burn to settle the drivers but it’s sounding awesome now.

Deep and spacious like the Masya with a lovely balance to its sound.

Medium fullness and sweet vocals.

Not as natural as the shozy bk but equal resolution and the treble is more smooth but equally as articulate.

It’s a da mn addictive sound for everything. Where the Bk failed with my radiohead albums this succeeds, where the masya failed me with full vocals this also just about succeeds.

I regard it equal to the BK  but a better all round choice for most genres. You only sacrifice a tiny bit of natural sound because the stardust is the best i’ve heard in the midrange and vocals and this comes close with a smoother presentation which I enjoy on tracks that need the help.

It’s better than the Rose Masya for most genres also I feel. This bud is a definite all rounder.

Guys I give my approval, just be careful with DHL shipping I had to pay €38 fee’s on a €52 earbud.... it’s a joke.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 20, 2017)

Oh also the build is excellent the cable is thick and sturdy my only complaint is the decision to put a bulky heavy chin slider on it which weighs the cable abit.

This is where I feels shozy’s decision to use a more subtle lighter thinner and in my opinion classier cable is a win.

But this cable weight aside is fantastic especially if you like flashy design (gold/silver braid)

I’m using them with heigi donuts (they need the seal for the best bass and lower mid presence).


----------



## euge

seanc6441 said:


> Penon BS1 Official is a two thumbs up from me. Needed an hour burn to settle the drivers but it’s sounding awesome now.
> 
> Deep and spacious like the Masya with a lovely balance to its sound.
> 
> ...



That's odd I was given free DHL shipping for the 2 bs1, maybe i got lucky... glad the sq is awesome tho


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 20, 2017)

euge said:


> That's odd I was given free DHL shipping for the 2 bs1, maybe i got lucky... glad the sq is awesome tho


shipping was free, dhl charged me €38 for handling fee’s.

That’s like... 70 ish percent of what I paid for the buds... I was beyond mad but had to pay it to get the package at the door.

If they weren't so damn good I’d be even more angry


----------



## euge

seanc6441 said:


> shipping was free, dhl charged me €38 for handling fee’s.
> 
> That’s like... 70 ish percent of what I paid for the buds... I was beyond mad but had to pay it to get the package at the door.



wow that's really weird, is it tax or are u in a rural area


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 20, 2017)

euge said:


> wow that's really weird, is it tax or are u in a rural area


I’m in dublin, the capital of Ireland.

I’ve never seen a charge like this before. I contacted penon to ask them what’s up, it’s like they put a value of $100-150 or something on the box which is unfair on me because I paid €50 or 60 USD to be precise.

It’s tax + some kind of handling fee BS. Basically they charge me and charge the seller to send it.

DHL are scammers lol


----------



## euge

seanc6441 said:


> I’m in dublin, the capital of Ireland.
> 
> I’ve never seen a charge like this before. I contacted penon to ask them what’s up, it’s like they put a value of $100-150 or something on the box which is unfair on me because I paid €50 or 60 USD to be precise.
> 
> ...



that really sucks lol hopefully i won't get hit with the same crap sigh


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 20, 2017)

euge said:


> that really sucks lol hopefully i won't get hit with the same **** sigh



Once you put the bs1 official earbuds in your ears you will forget all about it ... 

Well actually after about an hour of constant music because out of the box they sound a bit hollow but give it awhile... Incredible. With these and the stardust I'm set for awhile lol. Covers all the spectrum of my music.

My favourite thing about them so far is that you can play music loudly or play very trebley music and it's never fatiguing but still very lively and detailed up top. Don't know how they did that so well.

It's balanced between bright and dark it's got the best aspects of both I feel and is smooth but textured at the same time. I really have to praise this earbud.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Once you put the bs1 official earbuds in your ears you will forget all about it ...
> 
> Well actually after about an hour of constant music because out of the box they sound a bit hollow but give it awhile... Incredible. With these and the stardust I'm set for awhile lol. Covers all the spectrum of my music.
> 
> ...



Sorry to hear about your DHL woes. That's really annoying. But I'm glad the officials are doing Radiohead justice! Please report back after a bit more burn in. Thanks.


----------



## SweetEars

teesui said:


> Maybe you've got the model number wrong.
> 
> A quick google image search shows nothing exists with that model name/number.


anyway just ordered it in lazada


----------



## wokashraf

vladstef said:


> We should be talking about RY4s a lot more. It's a definitive upgrade to Vido and a sidegrade to EMX500. Compared to EMX, I hear RY4s' bass as stronger and a lot more stable, mid range similar, treble reduced by a solid amount - makes them dark sounding but still clearer than Vidos and at least as smooth, while the soundstage is just a notch narrower than EMX.
> I'd say thay RY4s is a legit basshead earbud but amazing value overall regardless of tonality.


bass is very good from my listening..but on some song, it feel congested and the bass overpower the vocal..


----------



## chaiyuta

Ok good then. At least my impression on BS1 Official doesn't let following customers feel down on it. Wish you enjoy it during Christmas. Mine is 60+ hours burn-in surpassed.


----------



## antdroid

seanc6441 said:


> Once you put the bs1 official earbuds in your ears you will forget all about it ...
> 
> Well actually after about an hour of constant music because out of the box they sound a bit hollow but give it awhile... Incredible. With these and the stardust I'm set for awhile lol. Covers all the spectrum of my music.
> 
> ...



Thanks Seanc - I ordered it through Penon and am getting both buds for the $99USD price including dhl ship. I'm glad I checked your mini review on Reddit. Can't wait to hear what it sounds like. Hopefully I wont have as much trouble with DHL as you did. My last order through Penon Audio didnt have any customs fees to USA, so Im hoping this is still the case.


----------



## j4100

seanc6441 said:


> I’m in dublin, the capital of Ireland.
> 
> I’ve never seen a charge like this before. I contacted penon to ask them what’s up, it’s like they put a value of $100-150 or something on the box which is unfair on me because I paid €50 or 60 USD to be precise.
> 
> ...



That sucks badly. No way Penon should have stated a value above what you paid. You want to ask them about that.

I assume DHL were adding customs charges plus their cover for doing so. Whether they keep the money is another thing altogether. Robbers!

I guess the upside is that you are impressed with the sound.


----------



## chaiyuta

It is about DHL custom fee policy on each country. Mine paid $14. Another country is different.


----------



## kvik

seanc6441 said:


> Guys I give my approval, just be careful with DHL shipping I had to pay €38 fee’s on a €52 earbud.... it’s a joke.


That’s more or less what would have been charged even if by regular postal service, at least if shipped to Denmark (EU) or Norway (non-EU). There import tax (VAT) would have been €13 (25% of item value + shipping) and customs handling fee would have been €21.50 (Denmark) or €15 (Norway). VAT in Ireland is 23%, €12 in your case, so DHL apparently charged you €26 in handling fee.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 21, 2017)

chaiyuta said:


> It is about DHL custom fee policy on each country. Mine paid $14. Another country is different.





kvik said:


> That’s more or less what would have been charged even if by regular postal service, at least if shipped to Denmark (EU) or Norway (non-EU). There import tax (VAT) would have been €13 (25% of item value + shipping) and customs handling fee would have been €21.50 (Denmark) or €15 (Norway). VAT in Ireland is 23%, €12 in your case, so DHL apparently charged you €26 in handling fee.


This is why I’m willing to wait the 4 weeks for economy shipping from China...

Paying more than 50% of the items cost should be a crime! Imagine if the item was only worth the €50 I paid for it and If Penon charged me shipping fee’s... I should count myself lucky I guess:/


----------



## seanc6441

Last thing to add about the earbud, it’s rated at 32 ohms impendance but has a sensitivity of 120db!

These this can be driven easily through my phone (6s), infact the sound really well driven as the bass is really punchy and there is power behind it.


----------



## Orac (Dec 21, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> This is why I’m willing to wait the 4 weeks for economy shipping from China...
> 
> Paying more than 50% of the items cost should be a crime! Imagine if the item was only worth the €50 I paid for it and If Penon charged me shipping fee’s... I should count myself lucky I guess:/


It sucks, but anything that escapes fees is lucky, not standard. I don't know if DAPs and earphones are subject to duty, but you should pay item value + duty + VAT, shipping + VAT. DHL add handling fees of something like €15 + 2% of the value, and they're often sly ****s because they add the 2% after everything else.

Challenge it if it's calculated incorrectly.


----------



## mbwilson111

My red Memt x6 have finally arrived.  I plugged them into my Ruizu A50 to make sure they worked.  I planned to leave them to burn in but 90 minutes later they are still in my ears.  I cannot really compare them to anything yet because I have never used buds with the albums that I am playing right now.  The one  playing right now has  not been listened to in years.  Too much music,  Too much gear.  Not enough time.

They stick together with magnets to help keep them tidy when stored.   The cable is fabric below the split and rubber above.  No microphonics.  They fit very comfortably in my ears so smaller than Monk shells.

Besides the red these come in black, silver, gold and rose gold.

The red is not really this bright in real life.  It matches my red Cayin N3.


----------



## chaiyuta

@luckyeights : Did you get your BS1 Official yet? How about your thought?


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> My favourite thing about them so far is that you can play music loudly or play very trebley music and it's never fatiguing but still very lively and detailed up top. Don't know how they did that so well.



interestingly, this is what i would describe the Liebesleid..but with slightly higher resolution to the BK (the BK wins on punchy-ness) .  how does the BS1 bass compared to the BK or masya? 



mbwilson111 said:


> My red Memt x6 have finally arrived.  I plugged them into my Ruizu A50 to make sure they worked.  I planned to leave them to burn in but 90 minutes later they are still in my ears.  I cannot really compare them to anything yet because I have never used buds with the albums that I am playing right now.  The one  playing right now has  not been listened to in years.  Too much music,  Too much gear.  Not enough time.
> 
> They stick together with magnets to help keep them tidy when stored.   The cable is fabric below the split and rubber above.  No microphonics.  They fit very comfortably in my ears so smaller than Monk shells.
> 
> ...



would love to hear a review for it soon, it's pretty! how's the size compared to regular mx500 shells? i want to "poison" my wife to like earbuds, but haven't had success yet (she prefers iems because mx shells hurts her ears). haven't tried yuin tipes yet


----------



## luckyeights

seanc6441 said:


> Penon BS1 Official is a two thumbs up from me. Needed an hour burn to settle the drivers but it’s sounding awesome now.
> 
> Deep and spacious like the Masya with a lovely balance to its sound.
> 
> ...




I knew I sensed a TOTL earbud when i first saw it.  Mine should be arriving today, cant wait to get it hooked up and get it burning in a little bit before I give it a good listen.  If i really like it think Penon will let me order a second for $60 you know for a backup.  Oh how is the bass on it?


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> how's the size compared to regular mx500 shells? i want to "poison" my wife to like earbuds, but haven't had success yet (she prefers iems because mx shells hurts her ears).



You probably missed the part quoted below ...blinded by the red MEMT... lol   They are still in my ears after about 3 hours.... no discomfort and they are not shifting around so the sound is staying stable and sounding great.  Still have not listened to my normal "test tracks" yet..... just letting the little Ruizu A50 play folder after folder ... Will plug it into the Cayin N3 later.  My ears do get a little itchy from foams touching them... that always happens.  IEMs are the same though... the inner ear itches from the tips after awhile.  Headphones get heavy or hot sometimes...or clamp too much.  We just need a little microchip in our brain that we can transmit the music to...



mbwilson111 said:


> They fit very comfortably in my ears so smaller than Monk shells.



I can use my earbuds that have Monk shells.  At first I could not.  Still they are bigger than I would like. I wonder what the Monk Lite will be like.  I am happy with my little collection now.  I do not need any more.


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> You probably missed the part quoted below ...blinded by the red MEMT... lol



you're right, i completely missed the "smaller than monk" post part 



mbwilson111 said:


> I can use my earbuds that have Monk shells.  At first I could not.  Still they are bigger than I would like. I wonder what the Monk Lite will be like.  I am happy with my little collection now.  I do not need any more.



i also went to the same process, having the mx500 shells hurting from just 15 to 20 minutes of use, to be able to use the Svara L in my ears for hours. foams do itch, especially the thin monk foams. i like the Hiegis and the black thin monk-ish foam because they have a smoother and more rubbery feel to them


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> You probably missed the part quoted below ...blinded by the red MEMT... lol



You have been waiting on these for a while. Where did you get them?


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> My ears do get a little itchy from foams touching them... that always happens.  IEMs are the same though... the inner ear itches from the tips after awhile.  Headphones get heavy or hot sometimes...or clamp too much.  We just need a little microchip in our brain that we can transmit the music to...



And if that microchip fails, we can always fall back to the ultra-comfortable Nighthawks!


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> You have been waiting on these for a while. Where did you get them?



Aliexpress AK Store  ...they have all five colors

Earlier today when I was looking for some reviews I found it on Amazon UK but not in the red... only silver and black...and under a different name when you do the Amazon search.  And yet the photos are all the same...Weird.  And you are in the UK so you could have it Saturday if you are prime 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Attraction...e=UTF8&qid=1513873842&sr=8-1&keywords=memt+x6


----------



## mbwilson111 (Dec 21, 2017)

waynes world said:


> And if that microchip fails, we can always fall back to the ultra-comfortable Nighthawks!



Can't beat the NighHawk for comfort or if you prefer closed, my Sennheiser HD630vb are also very comfy.  But we should not stray off topic....

I will have to rank my earbuds(someday) according to comfort.  Sometimes it is not just the size of the shell but also how well they stay in place.  I find longer stems (like on my Edifier H190) help me to fit them.  If there is little or no stem,I find them very fiddly to get in place.  Fingers not as nimble as they once were.  You should see how long it takes me to get a foam on.  Although today I did better than I thought I would.  The foams stretched well without tearing.

Usually I ask my husband to put the foams on for me but unfortunately he has to work now and again.


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> Aliexpress AK Store  ...they have all five colors
> 
> Earlier today when I was looking for some reviews I found it on Amazon UK but not in the red... only silver and black...and under a different name when you do the Amazon search.  And yet the photos are all the same...Weird.  And you are in the UK so you could have it Saturday if you are prime
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Attraction...e=UTF8&qid=1513873842&sr=8-1&keywords=memt+x6



lol - I was accidentally a prime member after hurrying to order something and clicking on the wrong link. I have since cancelled that, since I rarely order anything from Amazon and don't need to pay them £80 a year for their tv stuff. I should have waited another week! I have to say, I'm tempted by the red ones.

I was listening to Songhoy Blues - Resistance, this morning using my Kineras for the first time since burning them in. Not critical listening, as I was in the office and needed to keep an ear on the phone, but they sound great. I think it would be worth them making another batch.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Dec 21, 2017)

j4100 said:


> You have been waiting on these for a while.



I have checked and found out that my Memt x6 took 5 weeks to get to the UK from China.  Ordered on Nov. 16th  and shipped Dec. 8th arriving today the 21st.  I think they did not have them in stock when mine were ordered otherwise why would it take 3 weeks just to post them?  The price has gone down.  Mine were £17.99 and now they have dropped to $16.99 which would be £12.70.  Maybe it is best to not jump on things immediately...but I liked the red


----------



## seanc6441

luckyeights said:


> I knew I sensed a TOTL earbud when i first saw it.  Mine should be arriving today, cant wait to get it hooked up and get it burning in a little bit before I give it a good listen.  If i really like it think Penon will let me order a second for $60 you know for a backup.  Oh how is the bass on it?


fantastic bass. It’s the quantity and quality and it’s deep but also punchy


----------



## jant71 (Dec 21, 2017)

mbwilson111 said:


> I can use my earbuds that have Monk shells.  At first I could not.  Still they are bigger than I would like. I wonder what the Monk Lite will be like.  I am happy with my little collection now.  I do not need any more.



Monk Lite if the same size as the Qian they look like will be quite smaller. Smaller than I like where I have to add rings to build them up bigger. I have just the right size for MX500 shells though they don't work with my right ear well and un-nestle themselves from that side too much.


So, what is with the BS1 Official? Missed it and only see them on the special not on the penon sit page for $99. What is with the DHL stuff I have read. Nearly all my Penon stuff(going all the way back to when they were only BBO) has been e-packet. Not sending these e-packet??


----------



## luckyeights

seanc6441 said:


> fantastic bass. It’s the quantity and quality and it’s deep but also punchy



*Drooling*   Oh sorry didnt mean to loose control there and get slobber all over yah hehehehe.  I cant wait to get home.....to bad they dont come pre burnt in Im gona have to hook em up at least for an hour or two to let em stretch their legs before i give them a listen.


----------



## jogawag (Dec 21, 2017)

chaiyuta said:


> Ok good then. At least my impression on BS1 Official doesn't let following customers feel down on it. Wish you enjoy it during Christmas. Mine is 60+ hours burn-in surpassed.


@ chaiyuta : how is the result of comparing Kinera Buds and Penon BS1 Official?


----------



## seanc6441

jogawag said:


> @ chaiyuta : how is the result of comparing Kinera Buds and Penon BS1 Official?


Isn’t that apples and oranges? One is $99 totl and the other mid fi and $25? Or am I getting that wrong?


----------



## jogawag (Dec 21, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> Isn’t that apples and oranges? One is $99 totl and the other mid fi and $25? Or am I getting that wrong?


There is nothing he can not compare with just the difference amount?
If so, will BS1 Offcial and Shozy BK not be able to compare too?

Besides, I do not ask you. Or did you ever listen to "Kinera Buds"?


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 21, 2017)

jogawag said:


> There is nothing he can not compare with just the difference amount?
> If so, will BS1 Offcial and Shozy BK not be able to compare too?
> 
> Besides, I do not ask you. Or did you ever listen to "Kinera Buds"?


I was just making sure you knew they weren’t in the same category lol

Take it easy there 

But I would compare the bk and bs1 on the grounds that the bs1 is currently on sale at $99 not it’s retail price and is another TOTL earbud. Just to make that distinction.

I haven’t listened to them no. I’m going on what the reviews have said and their general target group of middle class.


----------



## jogawag (Dec 21, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> I was just making sure you knew they weren’t in the same category lol
> 
> Take it easy there
> 
> ...


Do not worry about this. I have Kinera Buds and Shozy BK both.


----------



## chaiyuta

@jogawag : today I forgot bringing kinera buds to office,  I will inform you later once I am at home.


----------



## jogawag

chaiyuta said:


> @jogawag : today I forgot bringing kinera buds to office,  I will inform you later once I am at home.


Thank you for your polite response. I am waiting for your impressions.


----------



## antdroid

jant71 said:


> Monk Lite if the same size as the Qian they look like will be quite smaller. Smaller than I like where I have to add rings to build them up bigger. I have just the right size for MX500 shells though they don't work with my right ear well and un-nestle themselves from that side too much.
> 
> 
> So, what is with the BS1 Official? Missed it and only see them on the special not on the penon sit page for $99. What is with the DHL stuff I have read. Nearly all my Penon stuff(going all the way back to when they were only BBO) has been e-packet. Not sending these e-packet??



I talked with Penon Customer Service (via Facebook Chat) yesterday and they upgraded to DHL for free as a special for the BS1 Official. They also gave me the bundle price BS1 Official / Experience for the upgrade price of $99, so I was pretty happy with that. Supposedly DHL will be faster than E-Packet, but in my experience, DHL is a nightmare every time (at least to Seattle where I live). I also used to work right across the street from their shipping center at the airport, and sometimes I wished I could just drive over and pick up the package myself because their delivery service is always late or do something weird.

Anyway, I just picked up a loot of headphones (and sold a few too) this holiday, so I'm totally done after this.....


----------



## tgh5000

Has anyone tried the new Monk Lites? Impressions?


----------



## chaiyuta

There is PK1 vs Kinera Buds comparison from one of local famous audio enthusiasts in my local forum (comment no.29).
English translated as follow.
"Using FiiO Q1 markII as a source with volume matched (same loudness). Kinera is a tad less bright tonality than PK1. Vocal thickness of Kinera Buds is leaner and a bit more forward than PK1. Kinera Buds has thicker bass note while a bit lower impact, but has a tad deeper sub-bass. For detail retrieval and instrument interval spacing, both are neck and neck. However Kinera has wider soundstage and more depth which make it more 3D holographic soundstage. Furthermore, Kinera Buds has sweeter mid-range frequency especially piano sound is very pleasant for me. It's a pity that Kinera company will not released next earbud product soon."


----------



## wskl

tgh5000 said:


> Has anyone tried the new Monk Lites? Impressions?



I have the 40 ohm and 120 ohm versions with regular cables, I probably won't be able to give impressions until next month though due to the busy holiday season.


----------



## redkingjoe

chaiyuta said:


> @redkingjoe : Hi, Long time no see.



Hi, long time no see.

I recently got an old Sony mdr e888 from 1997! It’s comfortable and sounds natural with decent sound quality. So I focus on enjoying it!

Any update on TOTL? Particularly, any buds that beat Shozy BK on comfort, sound, built and price!

Thanks!


----------



## redkingjoe

chaiyuta said:


> OMG. why BS1 hype so fast. If it is not good for your ears. Please don't blame me. haha



Thanks for your contribution.

It seems I need to get a pair as soon as possible!


----------



## chaiyuta (Dec 22, 2017)

@redkingjoe : Recently, there is no many new Pk-sized shell earbuds release. I can think of only 'VE Zen Lite (diameter 16.2mm as same as PK-sized)' that is included when you buy VE RA Amplifiers. However I never tried Zen 2.0 (diameter 16.9mm MX500-sized shell) and other cables version e.g. Oyaide 4n silver, Cardass Litz. In VE closed group, some said Zen Lite is nearly same Zen 2.0 sound with just minor downgrade cause 'Lite' has a smaller-sized driver. I am not confident enough that Kinera buds (which now already out of stock and Kinera say it will not further produce more) is beyond Shozy BK in every aspects since I ever tried Shozy BK just 5 minutes with full stock sponges. Within that 5 minutes, I personally prefer Kinera buds over Shozy BK. Penon BS1 shell size is nearly similar to MX500 shell size. Perhaps a bit 0.1mm smaller than MX500. If shell size is your very first priority concern, I don't recommend it. Even a new released astrotec LYRA collection earbud is around MX500 shell size or might bigger and heavier.. In PK-sized shell category, we have very few choice.

Update : I forget K's earphone brand. They just released  2 their new Flagship earbuds.
1) Poseidon (海神) 457$, Silver housing, 215Ohm, N55 magnet strength (more than 1.3 Tesla), driver diameter 14.6 mm., front cover diameter 16.2 mm., mmcx detachable cable
2) Ling (铃) 229$, Brass housing, 195Ohm, N52 magnet strength (more than 1 Tesla), driver diameter 14.5 mm., front cover diameter 16.1 mm.


----------



## ballog

SweetEars said:


> Muthalvan by AR Rahman ...hmm i say its ok to test out earbud but not comprehensive as his other works ..Sometimes Rahman releases the type of OST which actually tests the full spectrum of sound. examples are Taal, Daud, Vande Mataram.


I've had the chance to listen to A R Rahman since the early 1990's and has been a fan since. I'm a big soundtrack fan - from early Hollywood golden age (Korngold, Rozsa, Waxman) then Jerry Goldsmith, Malcolm Arnold, John Williams, etc and more modern composer like Zimmer (from later in his career) and many many more. @SweetEars bro if someone is interested with film music there is a whole universe (what am saying - a multiverse even) to discover. Don't take it bad but I think you since chill a bit with the Rahman thing for a while in this thread . Anyway merry Xmas to all you brothers here - for my part I'm going back to my Tony Bennett  - A Swinging Christmas album !


----------



## jogawag

chaiyuta said:


> @redkingjoe : Recently, there is no many new Pk-sized shell earbuds release. I can think of only 'VE Zen Lite (diameter 16.2mm as same as PK-sized)' that is included when you buy VE RA Amplifiers. However I never tried Zen 2.0 (diameter 16.9mm MX500-sized shell) and other cables version e.g. Oyaide 4n silver, Cardass Litz. In VE closed group, some said Zen Lite is nearly same Zen 2.0 sound with just minor downgrade cause 'Lite' has a smaller-sized driver. I am not confident enough that Kinera buds (which now already out of stock and Kinera say it will not further produce more) is beyond Shozy BK in every aspects since I ever tried Shozy BK just 5 minutes with full stock sponges. Within that 5 minutes, I personally prefer Kinera buds over Shozy BK. Penon BS1 shell size is nearly similar to MX500 shell size. Perhaps a bit 0.1mm smaller than MX500. If shell size is your very first priority concern, I don't recommend it. Even a new released astrotec LYRA collection earbud is around MX500 shell size or might bigger and heavier.. In PK-sized shell category, we have very few choice.
> 
> Update : I forget K's earphone brand. They just released  2 their new Flagship earbuds.
> 1) Poseidon (海神) 457$, Silver housing, 215Ohm, N55 magnet strength (more than 1.3 Tesla), driver diameter 14.6 mm., front cover diameter 16.2 mm., mmcx detachable cable
> 2) Ling (铃) 229$, Brass housing, 195Ohm, N52 magnet strength (more than 1 Tesla), driver diameter 14.5 mm., front cover diameter 16.1 mm.



I do not care about the size of the MX500 type.
So, how is the result of comparing sound quality of Kinera Buds and Penon BS1 Official?


----------



## chaiyuta

@jogawag : I am still at office, please check my PM.


----------



## chaiyuta (Dec 22, 2017)

@jogawag : very brief Kinera Buds (Original without any mod) vs Penon BS1 (with 2.5->3.5 adaptor) comparison with DX200 3.5 SE port. Both is naked without sponges.
Test track : Fripside : sister's noise Flac 24bit - 96kHz (Usually I use this track to test detail retrieval and harsh sibilant. It is speedy tempo and has many musical instruments and synthesizers. This is my dislike music track cause mostly earphones usually make me headache with this track. Normally I don't use favourite tracks for testing cause it is good as usual with every earphones.)

Details : BS1 has more clearly details that I could understand more (but not all notes) what instruments of those tiny or nuance sound. While Kinera Buds, I heard those nuance but I don't know exactly what kind of instruments produce those sound.
Vocal  : Both has no harsh sibilant. Kinera buds has Sweeter & Sexier approach, while BS1 is smoother approach. Kinera Vocal is a bit more forward than BS1's. Kinera's vocal is leaner bodied than BS1. Personally, I prefer Kinera Buds' vocal tonality.
Bass : Same deep level of sub-bass, but BS1 bass has more bodied, textured and decayed therefore BS1 make me feel more headache than Kinera Buds. However, typically BS1 is good for usual K-pop bass-rhythm songs. (It doesn't mean Kinera Buds doesn't make me headache cause this test track is easier to heachache for me as usual.)
Soundstage : BS1 feel congested once compared to Kinera Buds. Kinera is wider, though BS1 has better depth layering. (It doesn't mean BS1 has narrow soundstage but it is not wide likes Kinera Buds)
Instrument positioning & spacing : Kinera is better. it properly scales up to its width of soundstage. While BS1 sounds messy once compared to Kinera Buds.

P.S. I find it becomes unfair comparison if I use 2.5 mm BL port for comparing cause overall BS1 sound become better than 3.5 mm. or I would have to re-terminate Kinera Buds to be 2.5 mm BL plug instead..

Both earbuds are worth owning for me.

Disclaimer : I am just a mediocre customer who don't have 'Pitch-Perfect' hearing skills and also don't passed on many ABX tests having minor SQ difference. I tried audio gadgets less than thousand products. So please take it as a grain of salt.


----------



## euge

chaiyuta said:


> @jogawag : very brief Kinera Buds (Original without any mod) vs Penon BS1 (with 2.5->3.5 adaptor) comparison with DX200 3.5 SE port. Both is naked without sponges.
> Test track : Fripside : sister's noise Flac 24bit - 96kHz (Usually I use this track to test detail retrieval and harsh sibilant, This is my dislike music track cause many earphones make me headache with this track haha)
> 
> Details : BS1 has more clearly details that I could understand more (but not all notes) what instruments of those tiny or nuance sound. While Kinera Buds, I heard those nuance but I don't know exactly what kind of instruments produce those sound.
> ...



lol damn... I guess I shoudl lower my expectations for the BS1


----------



## daid1

chaiyuta said:


> @jogawag : very brief Kinera Buds (Original without any mod) vs Penon BS1 (with 2.5->3.5 adaptor) comparison with DX200 3.5 SE port. Both is naked without sponges.
> Test track : Fripside : sister's noise Flac 24bit - 96kHz (Usually I use this track to test detail retrieval and harsh sibilant, This is my dislike music track cause many earphones make me headache with this track haha)
> 
> Details : BS1 has more clearly details that I could understand more (but not all notes) what instruments of those tiny or nuance sound. While Kinera Buds, I heard those nuance but I don't know exactly what kind of instruments produce those sound.
> ...



bs1 experience or official


----------



## chaiyuta (Dec 22, 2017)

@euge : This test track is horrible to many earphones. That's why I often use this track for testing to eliminate personal favourite bias. Furthermore if you use balanced DAP and using BS1 balanced plug. Overall becomes better result.
@daid1 : Penon BS1 Official 2.5 balanced plug but in my testing I use 2.5->3.5 adaptor.


----------



## jogawag (Dec 22, 2017)

chaiyuta said:


> @jogawag : very brief Kinera Buds (Original without any mod) vs Penon BS1 (with 2.5->3.5 adaptor) comparison with DX200 3.5 SE port. Both is naked without sponges.
> Test track : Fripside : sister's noise Flac 24bit - 96kHz (Usually I use this track to test detail retrieval and harsh sibilant, This is my dislike music track cause many earphones make me headache with this track haha)
> 
> Details : BS1 has more clearly details that I could understand more (but not all notes) what instruments of those tiny or nuance sound. While Kinera Buds, I heard those nuance but I don't know exactly what kind of instruments produce those sound.
> ...



Thank you for your detailed polite impression.
I think that I will stop purchasing Penon BS1 Official.


----------



## gazzington

What's daps do you people recommend for the higher level earbuds?


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 22, 2017)

The BS1 vocals thicken up nicely if you apply a slight EQ, surprisingly I haven’t noticed any odd tonality like I normally do when EQing ‘balanced’ earbuds.




By applying the EQ bump from around 150-1000 (very wide mild bump) I’ve basically gotten these to a level where they sound more like my shozy BK is thickness of vocals, especially deeper vocals. Strings in the lower frequencies gain more texture and body and mid bass gets a slight bump.

It sounds astonishingly close to my bk now with a bigger 3D soundstage and smoother treble.

Still love my shozy bk but this earbud is making it hard for me to put it down. This earbud will be the highest ranked on the earbud survey soon


----------



## luckyeights

seanc6441 said:


> The BS1 vocals thicken up nicely if you apply a slight EQ, surprisingly I haven’t noticed any odd tonality like I normally do when EQing ‘balanced’ earbuds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Huh, there is a bump there?  I can barely see a slight tiny increase, and you can actually hear a difference?   Damn if I EQ something iv got to do large scale mountain ranges to hear anything LOL.


----------



## luckyeights

I am still waiting for my BS1 btw DHL lied and didnt deliver on the expected date. Now it says estimated delivery is unavailable lmao I hate DHL worst shipping company in the world.   Then chaiyuta has to come along and smash my hopes and dreams.....   I find it really odd that the Kinera is more open / less congested than BS1.  Reviews have said the BS1 is more open and larger stage than the rose masaya which is really high on the list for having a really good sound stage.    So does this mean the kinera has a sound stage like at Mojito level..... so confused =/


----------



## seanc6441

luckyeights said:


> Huh, there is a bump there?  I can barely see a slight tiny increase, and you can actually hear a difference?   Damn if I EQ something iv got to do large scale mountain ranges to hear anything LOL.


I never EQ more than 1-2db because it messes with tonality so much and usually in a negative way. I definitely here a beneficial difference in sound signature. These things respond well to EQing like this. I probably like it because it’s exactly like the shozy house signature now.


----------



## waynes world

chaiyuta said:


> @jogawag : very brief Kinera Buds (Original without any mod) vs Penon BS1 (with 2.5->3.5 adaptor) comparison with DX200 3.5 SE port. Both is naked without sponges.
> Test track : Fripside : sister's noise Flac 24bit - 96kHz (Usually I use this track to test detail retrieval and harsh sibilant. It is speedy tempo and has many musical instruments and synthesizers. This is my dislike music track cause mostly earphones usually make me headache with this track. Normally I don't use favourite tracks for testing cause it is good as usual with every earphones.)
> 
> Details : BS1 has more clearly details that I could understand more (but not all notes) what instruments of those tiny or nuance sound. While Kinera Buds, I heard those nuance but I don't know exactly what kind of instruments produce those sound.
> ...



Are these the Kinera's of which you speak (and which are no longer available)?


Spoiler


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 22, 2017)

luckyeights said:


> I am still waiting for my BS1 btw DHL lied and didnt deliver on the expected date. Now it says estimated delivery is unavailable lmao I hate DHL worst shipping company in the world.   Then chaiyuta has to come along and smash my hopes and dreams.....   I find it really odd that the Kinera is more open / less congested than BS1.  Reviews have said the BS1 is more open and larger stage than the rose masaya which is really high on the list for having a really good sound stage.    So does this mean the kinera has a sound stage like at Mojito level..... so confused =/


Where is it said that the kinera has better SQ, I can almost guarantee you this BS1 has the better SQ being a more expensive TOTL earbud that IMO sounds as good as the shozy bk without it’s flaws. Whereas I read the kinera is mid fi and on par to compete with the Cygnus and maybe lower.

The soundstage is equal to the Masya on this BS1 but with better imaging and a sense of space/separation between instruments like the Masya. Detail retreival is much better here, you here every drum every string and the vocals are both thick enough and very clear.

It’s an incredible earbud don’t worry 

(and yes DHL SUCK, more than most courier services and postal services)


----------



## Rendster

I got the ry4s with UE cable. All i can say is WOW! This is an amazing earbud for its price. I've been listening more to female vocals with this bud.


----------



## luckyeights

Wow the K's earphone Poseidon. Silver housing... I hope they mean actual real silver at $500 price tag.  Dang those things are expensive but at the same time very good looking buds.  I hope someone buys these at some point and does a review because id like to know what a 500 dollar earbud sounds like lol.


----------



## luckyeights

seanc6441 said:


> Where is it said that the kinera has better SQ, I can almost guarantee you this BS1 has the better SQ being a more expensive TOTL earbud that IMO sounds as good as the shozy bk without it’s flaws. Whereas I read the kinera is mid fi and on par to compete with the Cygnus and maybe lower.
> 
> The soundstage is equal to the Masya on this BS1 but with better imaging and a sense of space/separation between instruments like the Masya. Detail retreival is much better here, you here every drum every string and the vocals are both thick enough and very clear.
> 
> ...




Ok im reinvigorated,  The masaya is a good bud my only problem with it was that vocals sounded too thin.  Would you say the BS1 is an improvement in this area?


----------



## seanc6441

luckyeights said:


> Ok im reinvigorated,  The masaya is a good bud my only problem with it was that vocals sounded too thin.  Would you say the BS1 is an improvement in this area?


yes. Read back a page for more info on it from me.


----------



## rkw

luckyeights said:


> Wow the K's earphone Poseidon. Silver housing...


Do you have a link? K's already introduced a new flagship Ling model this month (posted earlier in this thread, and it's on AliExpress). I can't find anything named Poseidon.


----------



## CingKrab

rkw said:


> Do you have a link? K's already introduced a new flagship Ling model this month (posted earlier in this thread, and it's on AliExpress). I can't find anything named Poseidon.



It's linked on the last page.  Thing is it's not under the K's Earphones brand -- it's branded "finalacoustics".


----------



## HungryPanda

Oh no I love K's earbuds ...........


----------



## SweetEars

is there any chance the new graphenes actually resemble the penon BS1?


----------



## rkw

SweetEars said:


> is there any chance the new graphenes actually resemble the penon BS1?


New graphenes resemble the old graphenes.


----------



## seanc6441

SweetEars said:


> is there any chance the new graphenes actually resemble the penon BS1?



There’s a chance it’s just not a very good one. They are completely unrelated earbuds and in different price/performance categories if the old graphene is anything to go by.


----------



## jant71 (Dec 22, 2017)

These look pretty cool...https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...Bass-Earbuds-DIY-OFC/1922340_32847847473.html

Also on Penon with a better description...

"*Pure sound quality*


As the third generation of BGVP earbud style earphone, we have adopted advanced audio technology on DX3, self-developed high-resolution 15mm graphene dynamic drive, after several years of grinding research and development, tri-band more excellent
*Lightweight body, fully automatic machine tool processing cavity*


Cavity presents a trapezoidal staircase, caliber from large to small, which can effectively restrain the sound waves refracted by the sound wave generated in the cavity. The rear cavity is provided with a U-shaped special sound wave reflection channel, which effectively suppresses high-frequency vibration and makes the sound more pure and innocent.
*Wide sound field, like immersive experience*


The rear end of the cavity is embedded with a high-density stainless steel die-cast filter, which is complemented by an internal tuning mesh that can greatly increase the sound density and enhance the stereo sense of sound to create an enchanting broad sound field.
*Smooth and enduring, tri-band equilibrium, transparent*


DX3 uses an open structure design, unit-intensive sound hole design, full of sound without distortion, whether it is Adele Adkins or Jason Mraz, in which the delicate feelings will be real reduction, tri-band more natural, smooth and enduring.


----------



## golov17

2017 K's Earphone Black Ling Brass Cavity Flagship Level Earbud In Ear Earphone 195ohm High Impedance Without Mic HIFI Earbud
http://s.aliexpress.com/ZFjuIFfA?fromSns


----------



## redkingjoe

seanc6441 said:


> Where is it said that the kinera has better SQ, I can almost guarantee you this BS1 has the better SQ being a more expensive TOTL earbud that IMO sounds as good as the shozy bk without it’s flaws. Whereas I read the kinera is mid fi and on par to compete with the Cygnus.



For the majority earbuds community, kinera is irrelevant coz it’s discontinued. sadly, I like the bio cell diaphragm so much. In the past only the most expensive and highest end earbud or headphone use bio diaphragm.

Thank you again for your BS recommendation. I just ordered one yesterday. Hope it will arrive and sounds good.

I am also thinking seriously about the BK. 

I am hesitated with K’s new flagship. I have a pair of Blur with silver housing. While it sounds great, the metal is so heavy that I can only use it for 1 hour max!

Thanks.


----------



## redkingjoe

Thanks for your great summaries of the TOTL earbuds. The summary is truly detailed and yet succinct.

Reading your post simply put me on top of the whole earbuds market again!

Since I can’t get Kinera, I have to try BS to see if it fits. Then, i would consider BK if BS can’t satisfy myself. K might be too heavy for ears.

Thanks again for the great summary.





chaiyuta said:


> @redkingjoe : Recently, there is no many new Pk-sized shell earbuds release. I can think of only 'VE Zen Lite (diameter 16.2mm as same as PK-sized)' that is included when you buy VE RA Amplifiers. However I never tried Zen 2.0 (diameter 16.9mm MX500-sized shell) and other cables version e.g. Oyaide 4n silver, Cardass Litz. In VE closed group, some said Zen Lite is nearly same Zen 2.0 sound with just minor downgrade cause 'Lite' has a smaller-sized driver. I am not confident enough that Kinera buds (which now already out of stock and Kinera say it will not further produce more) is beyond Shozy BK in every aspects since I ever tried Shozy BK just 5 minutes with full stock sponges. Within that 5 minutes, I personally prefer Kinera buds over Shozy BK. Penon BS1 shell size is nearly similar to MX500 shell size. Perhaps a bit 0.1mm smaller than MX500. If shell size is your very first priority concern, I don't recommend it. Even a new released astrotec LYRA collection earbud is around MX500 shell size or might bigger and heavier.. In PK-sized shell category, we have very few choice.
> 
> Update : I forget K's earphone brand. They just released  2 their new Flagship earbuds.
> 1) Poseidon (海神) 457$, Silver housing, 215Ohm, N55 magnet strength (more than 1.3 Tesla), driver diameter 14.6 mm., front cover diameter 16.2 mm., mmcx detachable cable
> 2) Ling (铃) 229$, Brass housing, 195Ohm, N52 magnet strength (more than 1 Tesla), driver diameter 14.5 mm., front cover diameter 16.1 mm.


----------



## DBaldock9

Was the _Penon BS1 Official_ a limited edition run?  I don't see it available on either the Penon website or Penon AliExpress Store.
The one called the _Penon BS1 Experience_ is available for USD$39.  Is that the one being compared to the USD$165 Shozy BK?


----------



## audiobot

DBaldock9 said:


> Was the _Penon BS1 Official_ a limited edition run?  I don't see it available on either the Penon website or Penon AliExpress Store.
> The one called the _Penon BS1 Experience_ is available for USD$39.  Is that the one being compared to the USD$165 Shozy BK?



https://penon-official.com


----------



## waynes world

Pffft. Who needs the Kinera's or the BS1's... FAAEAL Snow-lotus 2.0's in da house!

Although NewToySyndrome might be in full effect here, they are sounding friggin' great right out of the box.


----------



## DBaldock9

audiobot said:


> https://penon-official.com



Thanks!  I guess it was crazy of me to expect to find a Penon branded earbud on the Penon website, rather than a completely different domain...  

Since the *BS1 Official 2.5mm TRRS* is the same price as the *K's 500 2.5mm TRRS* (which I have, and _really like_), has there been any comparison of these two earbuds?


----------



## euge (Dec 22, 2017)

@seanc6441 hmmm maybe you're forming opinions based on price too easily, the bs1 does only cost 60$ atm which I'm guessing they're already making a profit off regardless of the marked up price later on.

Which means it cost less than half of the bk but sounds as good if not better


----------



## Redcarmoose (Dec 22, 2017)

gazzington said:


> What's daps do you people recommend for the higher level earbuds?



1Z and MX500 original.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/sennheiser-mx500-lightweight-in-ear-headphones-blue.8620/


----------



## SweetEars

seanc6441 said:


> There’s a chance it’s just not a very good one. They are completely unrelated earbuds and in different price/performance categories if the old graphene is anything to go by.


because from the description of them seems to be similar to the new graphenes except for the bass.


----------



## SweetEars

seanc6441 said:


> The BS1 vocals thicken up nicely if you apply a slight EQ, surprisingly I haven’t noticed any odd tonality like I normally do when EQing ‘balanced’ earbuds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i have this Bang and olufsen EQ at the taskbar...

but not sure if its works on headphones


----------



## DBaldock9

euge said:


> @seanc6441 hmmm maybe you're forming opinions based on price too easily, the bs1 does only cost 60$ atm which I'm guessing they're already making a profit off regardless of the marked up price later on.
> 
> Which means it cost less than half of the bk but sounds as good if not better



The BS1 Official 2.5mm TRRS is USD$109 on their website - where are you seeing it for USD$60?


----------



## chaiyuta

I might overrate Kinera Buds, but it is not only me. You can see my previous Eng-translated review from one of my local famous enthusiast and another one from Mr. JaaanJann who usually plays all high-end & summit-fi stuffs inside telegram closed group are as below.



Spoiler: Mr. RockDragon review






chaiyuta said:


> There is PK1 vs Kinera Buds comparison from one of local famous audio enthusiasts in my local forum (comment no.29).
> English translated as follow.
> "Using FiiO Q1 markII as a source with volume matched (same loudness). Kinera is a tad less bright tonality than PK1. Vocal thickness of Kinera Buds is leaner and a bit more forward than PK1. Kinera Buds has thicker bass note while a bit lower impact, but has a tad deeper sub-bass. For detail retrieval and instrument interval spacing, both are neck and neck. However Kinera has wider soundstage and more depth which make it more 3D holographic soundstage. Furthermore, Kinera Buds has sweeter mid-range frequency especially piano sound is very pleasant for me. It's a pity that Kinera company will not released next earbud product soon."








Spoiler: Mr. JaaanJann Review














waynes world said:


> Are these the Kinera's of which you speak (and which are no longer available)?
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Yes, It is limited Kinera buds. No more production. Already sold out.


----------



## razysm_7 (Dec 22, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> fantastic bass. It’s the quantity and quality and it’s deep but also punchy


WHich one has more bass Sozy BK or Penon BS1?


----------



## euge

DBaldock9 said:


> The BS1 Official 2.5mm TRRS is USD$109 on their website - where are you seeing it for USD$60?



If you own the exp version which is 39$ the official only cost 60$ 
Or you could just Facebook or email them saying you want the 2 for 99$ like I did... pretty nice of em


----------



## euge

chaiyuta said:


> I might overrate Kinera Buds, but it is not only me. You can see my previous Eng-translated review from one of my local famous enthusiast and another one from Mr. JaaanJann who usually plays all high-end & summit-fi stuffs inside telegram closed group are as below.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I do think the bk is superior to the kineras, but I kinda like kineras tuning, just personal preference


----------



## DBaldock9

euge said:


> If you own the exp version which is 39$ the official only cost 60$
> Or you could just Facebook or email them saying you want the 2 for 99$ like I did... pretty nice of em



Thanks!  So the reduced price is part of a _package deal_.

Well, with me getting ready to assemble something like 15-20 sets of earbuds (~50% as gifts - alas not to be ready before Christmas, due to having to re-order wire...), I don't really need to be ordering another $100 of earbuds...


----------



## euge

DBaldock9 said:


> Thanks!  So the reduced price is part of a _package deal_.
> 
> Well, with me getting ready to assemble something like 15-20 sets of earbuds (~50% as gifts - alas not to be ready before Christmas, due to having to re-order wire...), I don't really need to be ordering another $100 of earbuds...



Ahaha nice! According to @seanc6441 tho it's going to cost more than the 99$/109$ for the bs1 official alone at a later date...


----------



## DBaldock9

euge said:


> Ahaha nice! According to @seanc6441 tho it's going to cost more than the 99$/109$ for the bs1 official alone at a later date...



If I can find someone who was boosting the K's 500 (back when I bought that set), saying that the new BS1 is significantly better, then I guess I would consider it.


----------



## Rendster

Hello! This maybe a little bit off topic but just wanna ask. Is it true that you cant hear any difference with a flac file and a mp3 320kbps file? Thanks to whoever will clarify this.


----------



## Danneq (Dec 23, 2017)

gazzington said:


> What's daps do you people recommend for the higher level earbuds?



I own Questyle QP1R and iBasso HDP-R10 (Japanese version of DX100). Both are really great (and discontinued). You could get the current releases Questyle QP2R or iBasso DX200 or buy used QP1R or DX100/R10.

DX100 uses Android 2.3 (Gingerbread). It's old but works when used as firmware for an mp3 player. Apps such as Spotify might be difficult to get working properly, through. QP1R is just a basic dap with no apps or streaming.


----------



## Danneq

Rendster said:


> Hello! This maybe a little bit off topic but just wanna ask. Is it true that you cant hear any difference with a flac file and a mp3 320kbps file? Thanks to whoever will clarify this.



I can only hear a difference on a stereo system with good speakers. Not with headphones on a dap (as long as the mp3 files are 256 or 320 kbps cbr or vbr0 rips).


----------



## doggiemom

Rendster said:


> Hello! This maybe a little bit off topic but just wanna ask. Is it true that you cant hear any difference with a flac file and a mp3 320kbps file? Thanks to whoever will clarify this.


You can try for yourself:
https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality


----------



## chaiyuta

doggiemom said:


> You can try for yourself:
> https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality



I got 5/6 corrected. I failed on Question No.4 SUZANNE VEGA 'Tom's Diner'. It is fun hearing test.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

Can anybody help out with your impressions of the Cypherus Blue Darth? I've searched the thread, only picking up bits and pieces here and there. 

How recessed are the mids? Is the bass tight and defined, or does it bloom some? Is this a BASSHEAd sound, or is it just on the bassier side of normal?


----------



## kurtextrem

How is the fit of Penon BS1 compared to the regular MX shells?


----------



## IEMstrong

After seeing you all post your collections, I'll never feel guilty about the money I spend on audio again


----------



## Rendster

doggiemom said:


> You can try for yourself:
> https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality



Thanks! I hard a time distinguishing what's the wav and the 320kbps mp3 hehe


----------



## seanc6441

redkingjoe said:


> Thanks for your great summaries of the TOTL earbuds. The summary is truly detailed and yet succinct.
> 
> Reading your post simply put me on top of the whole earbuds market again!
> 
> ...


The shozy bk is very light. BS1 shell is light but the cable is relatively heavy.


----------



## seanc6441

Rendster said:


> Thanks! I hard a time distinguishing what's the wav and the 320kbps mp3 hehe


All the tracks sound pretty close to me, because the compressed tracks are well done and probably all from the same source file. The issue arises when you source poor quality compressed audio that sounds like garbage lol


----------



## seanc6441

euge said:


> @seanc6441 hmmm maybe you're forming opinions based on price too easily, the bs1 does only cost 60$ atm which I'm guessing they're already making a profit off regardless of the marked up price later on.
> 
> Which means it cost less than half of the bk but sounds as good if not better


I’m forming my opinion based on reviews but maybe I misread them regarding the kinera.

The BS1 official costs $99 and will rise, not $60. That’s only a special promotion if you’ve bought the BS1 experience. So most of you will spend $99 but get two earbuds. But in reality the bs1 currently price is $99 but I’m basing its value of SQ comparable to the shozy BK which I have.


----------



## seanc6441

razysm_7 said:


> WHich one has more bass Sozy BK or Penon BS1?


BS1 slightly, both very good quality and deep sounding. Both sound warm and nice detail.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 23, 2017)

euge said:


> I do think the bk is superior to the kineras, but I kinda like kineras tuning, just personal preference


Clearly I misread the reviews of the kinera thinking they were mid fi quality earbuds. If anyone can find them obviously they are an option but that would be difficult being limited edition.

Either way the bk/bs1 are pretty comparable and most will prefer the versatility and soundstage of the bs1 over the bk’s slightly more nuanced lower mids.

If a larger fit and heavier cable are an issue, the bk will suit those people more.


----------



## doggiemom

Rendster said:


> Thanks! I hard a time distinguishing what's the wav and the 320kbps mp3 hehe


Honestly, so do I.  It is fun to try the test with different setups.  It randomizes the order of the clips so you can take the test multiple times without memorizing the answers like an eye chart or something.


----------



## ClieOS (Dec 23, 2017)

Benjie BJ-49
K's Earphones 'White Bell'
K's Earphones 'Black Bell'
K's Earphones / FinalAcoustics Poseidon

Here are the three latest K's release - none is cheap, but they are really good, all in the flagship / 2nd flagship level. Poseidon is particularly great sounding and a worthy successor to K's 500ohm, plus a pure silver housing and MMCX silver cable no less. They are all burning in at the moment, so more impression will come after a few days.


----------



## golov17

ClieOS said:


> Benjie BJ-49
> K's Earphones 'White Bell'
> K's Earphones 'Black Bell'
> K's Earphones / FinalAcoustics Poseidon
> ...


good to know, I press the trigger for Ling


----------



## euge

golov17 said:


> good to know, I press the trigger for Ling



nice! black or white?


----------



## golov17 (Dec 23, 2017)




----------



## chaiyuta (Dec 23, 2017)

@ClieOS : Wow so cool. What is your thought about fitting comparing to Moondrop Liebesleid? Some pictures in customers' feedback section of the taobao store shows there are 2.5 mm. BL plug option.

@euge : White Bell (Ling - Chinese pronounced sound) is one black cable per side while Black Bell is braid cable which is higher price and it has 2 braid cable options. Due to language barrier, I don't know which cable option is a higher option.


----------



## chaiyuta

seanc6441 said:


> Clearly I misread the reviews of the kinera thinking they were mid fi quality earbuds. If anyone can find them obviously they are an option but that would be difficult being limited edition.
> 
> Either way the bk/bs1 are pretty comparable and most will prefer the versatility and soundstage of the bs1 over the bk’s slightly more nuanced lower mids.
> 
> If a larger fit and heavier cable are an issue, the bk will suit those people more.



Recently I got 2nd pair of Kinera Buds via a resale customer with premium price. I am very glad that he don't like its sound and I will more grateful if I see Kinera Buds' owners do more negative reviews so that I might be able to get another pair more in future.


----------



## ClieOS (Dec 24, 2017)

chaiyuta said:


> @ClieOS : Wow so cool. What is your thought about fitting comparing to Moondrop Liebesleid? Some pictures in customers' feedback section of the taobao store shows there are 2.5 mm. BL plug option.
> 
> @euge : White Bell (Ling - Chinese pronounced sound) is one black cable per side while Black Bell is braid cable which is higher price and it has 2 braid cable options. Due to language barrier, I don't know which cable option is a higher option.



White Bell comes with either single ended or balanced termination, both are OFC cable. Black Bell comes with stock or pure silver cable, stock is silver plated OFC + gold plated OFC. Poseidon comes only with 5N pure silver cable, but three different exotic housing materials: pure silver (stock and cheapest, but currently out of stock), platinum or gold. The later two are super expensive (10x the price). Bell series are brass btw. Given these are no cheap buy, I think you can probably ask for balanced plug even if you didn't see the option in Taobao.

No fitting issue with anyone of them - but as you can imagine, since they are all full metal with smooth finish, they don't offer a lot of friction and will slide out if you shake your head very quick (plus they are heavier than plastic earbuds, though not as much as Liebesleid). Those with Liebesleid probably already know how this goes. The solution is to use some foam pad, ideally donut foam or better yet, the DIY multi-hole foam that I described in the past.


----------



## redkingjoe (Dec 24, 2017)

Waiting patiently for your review!  Please kindly compare them to Shozy BK!

but it seems I couldn’t get the cheap version of Poseidon now! (457$)

I read about the materials that were incorporated into Poseidon. It’s my dreamed earbud.

After reading your review, I think I need to wait to buy the cheap Poseidon.




ClieOS said:


> Benjie BJ-49
> K's Earphones 'White Bell'
> K's Earphones 'Black Bell'
> K's Earphones / FinalAcoustics Poseidon
> ...


----------



## roy1963

hi everyone
i love this thread, and thanks to all the contributions and info
i am a recent convert to earbuds (3 months) but had tried some earbuds some years ago with no joy 
can anyone confirm if the new monk lite is using the qian39 shell as that seems to be a good size fit for my ear


----------



## rkw

ClieOS said:


> White Bell comes with either single ended or balanced termination, both are OFC cable. Black Bell comes with stock or pure silver cable, stock is silver plated OFC + gold plated OFC.


Do White Bell and Black Bell have the same earpiece (just different in silver vs dark metal finish)? In other words, is the real difference between White and Black only the cable?


----------



## wskl (Dec 24, 2017)

roy1963 said:


> hi everyone
> i love this thread, and thanks to all the contributions and info
> i am a recent convert to earbuds (3 months) but had tried some earbuds some years ago with no joy
> can anyone confirm if the new monk lite is using the qian39 shell as that seems to be a good size fit for my ear



Yes, I can confirm Monk Lite is using the Qian39 shell.

Qian39 in the middle.


----------



## theoutsider

wskl said:


> Yes, I can confirm Monk Lite is using the Qian39 shell.
> 
> Qian39 in the middle.


Monk lite 120 SPC, to buy or not to buy?


----------



## wskl

theoutsider said:


> Monk lite 120 SPC, to buy or not to buy?



Sorry, I cannot help, my silver/white Monk Lite is 120 ohm with regular cable, not SPC.


----------



## roy1963

wskl said:


> Sorry, I cannot help, my silver/white Monk Lite is 120 ohm with regular cable, not SPC.



how are you finding its sound compared to the qian39


----------



## wskl

roy1963 said:


> how are you finding its sound compared to the qian39



Unfortunately I have not listened to the Qian39 in a really long time so I am unable to comment at this time.

I have only listened to the gold/black 40 ohm version right now, if I compare with the Monk+, they both share the same laid-back presentation but the tuning is different.  Monk Lite has less bass and better clarity than Monk+, whereas Monk+ has warmer tonality, Lite is more neutral sounding, leaning towards bright.


----------



## roy1963

wskl said:


> Unfortunately I have not listened to the Qian39 in a really long time so I am unable to comment at this time.
> 
> I have only listened to the gold/black 40 ohm version right now, if I compare with the Monk+, they both share the same laid-back presentation but the tuning is different.  Monk Lite has less bass and better clarity than Monk+, whereas Monk+ has warmer tonality, Lite is more neutral sounding, leaning towards bright.



thanks for sharing this
i think i will order the 40 and 120 regular cable when they are back in stock


----------



## j4100

Got a notification that my K600 has cleared customs, but the two orders from the end of Nov are still out there in the ether. I'm guessing slow deliveries are in a container on a ship somewhere on the sea, or they are still using piston engined biplanes for airmail


----------



## seanc6441

j4100 said:


> Got a notification that my K600 has cleared customs, but the two orders from the end of Nov are still out there in the ether. I'm guessing slow deliveries are in a container on a ship somewhere on the sea, or they are still using piston engined biplanes for airmail


Maybe they are hand delivered via bicycle messanger lol


----------



## j4100

seanc6441 said:


> Maybe they are hand delivered via bicycle messanger lol



I reckon this guy has my items in his bag. Might be a while before I get them yet. 



Spoiler: Ali Delivery man


----------



## ClieOS

rkw said:


> Do White Bell and Black Bell have the same earpiece (just different in silver vs dark metal finish)? In other words, is the real difference between White and Black only the cable?



They do not sound identical if that's what you are asking, They do however share K's house sound in overall tuning, which is generally has a particularly good lower end while on the smooth and warm side overall.


----------



## Trippin

Any reviews on the Abnormal Duotres? They look real tempting


----------



## antdroid

My wireless Rose Masya's - using the KZ Bluetooth adapter. They have the same 0.75mm 2-pin connectors. Works great and are BT 4.2 and Apt-X compatible. I may have to cut and remove the memory wire though, as it's a bit annoying.


----------



## B9Scrambler

antdroid said:


> My wireless Rose Masya's - using the KZ Bluetooth adapter. They have the same 0.75mm 2-pin connectors. Works great and are BT 4.2 and Apt-X compatible. I may have to cut and remove the memory wire though, as it's a bit annoying.


----------



## HungryPanda

new toys:


----------



## euge

HungryPanda said:


> new toys:



not the BGVP DX3?


----------



## HungryPanda (Dec 24, 2017)

No , wrong thread doh!


----------



## HungryPanda

Quick Rose Masya pic to quell the masses


----------



## Mimouille

ClieOS said:


> White Bell comes with either single ended or balanced termination, both are OFC cable. Black Bell comes with stock or pure silver cable, stock is silver plated OFC + gold plated OFC. Poseidon comes only with 5N pure silver cable, but three different exotic housing materials: pure silver (stock and cheapest, but currently out of stock), platinum or gold. The later two are super expensive (10x the price). Bell series are brass btw. Given these are no cheap buy, I think you can probably ask for balanced plug even if you didn't see the option in Taobao.
> 
> No fitting issue with anyone of them - but as you can imagine, since they are all full metal with smooth finish, they don't offer a lot of friction and will slide out if you shake your head very quick (plus they are heavier than plastic earbuds, though not as much as Liebesleid). Those with Liebesleid probably already know how this goes. The solution is to use some foam pad, ideally donut foam or better yet, the DIY multi-hole foam that I described in the past.



Dear ClieOS, long time no speak. I am looking into earbuds for the first time (at least since I bought some aiwas in 1992). I want to go straight to the good stuff as I am using so really good iems.

Since I am quite superficial, I have selected some good looking ones that can be easily sources in China (I am in BJ).

I have been eying the Liebesleid and the K's Poseidon, as well as the K's finalacoustics (pic under).



 

Any idea if these are in the same ballpark technically, and if they have wildly different signatures? 

Thank you


----------



## chaiyuta

@Mimouille : Hi, Lord Mimouille. I've never thought that you are also insterested on TOTL earbuds as well. Nice to meet you here. 'Final acoustic' seems like a plug brand partnering with K's. your above picture is K's Poseidon or you might called "FinalAcoustics...." based on product title at taobao store. However, the real name is 'Poseidon'.


----------



## Mimouille

chaiyuta said:


> @Mimouille : Hi, Lord Mimouille. I've never thought that you are also insterested on TOTL earbuds as well. Nice to meet you here. 'Final acoustic' seems like a plug brand partnering with K's. your above picture is K's Poseidon or you might called "FinalAcoustics...." based on product title at taobao store. However, the real name is 'Poseidon'.


Thanks for the clarification! So if this is Poseidon, what is this :


----------



## chaiyuta (Dec 25, 2017)

Mimouille said:


> Thanks for the clarification! So if this is Poseidon, what is this :


This is called 'Black Bell'. (Bell = Ling in Chinese pronouncing sound). it is lower level than 'Poseidon'. Different driver and Different housing material. Bell use N52 magnet strength driver, Brass housing, while Poseidon use N55 magnet strength driver, Silver housing.

Below is my previous comments.



Spoiler: Brief Specs of K's Poseidon and K's Bell






chaiyuta said:


> @redkingjoe : Recently, there is no many new Pk-sized shell earbuds release. I can think of only 'VE Zen Lite (diameter 16.2mm as same as PK-sized)' that is included when you buy VE RA Amplifiers. However I never tried Zen 2.0 (diameter 16.9mm MX500-sized shell) and other cables version e.g. Oyaide 4n silver, Cardass Litz. In VE closed group, some said Zen Lite is nearly same Zen 2.0 sound with just minor downgrade cause 'Lite' has a smaller-sized driver. I am not confident enough that Kinera buds (which now already out of stock and Kinera say it will not further produce more) is beyond Shozy BK in every aspects since I ever tried Shozy BK just 5 minutes with full stock sponges. Within that 5 minutes, I personally prefer Kinera buds over Shozy BK. Penon BS1 shell size is nearly similar to MX500 shell size. Perhaps a bit 0.1mm smaller than MX500. If shell size is your very first priority concern, I don't recommend it. Even a new released astrotec LYRA collection earbud is around MX500 shell size or might bigger and heavier.. In PK-sized shell category, we have very few choice.
> 
> Update : I forget K's earphone brand. They just released  2 their new Flagship earbuds.
> 1) Poseidon (海神) 457$, Silver housing, 215Ohm, N55 magnet strength (more than 1.3 Tesla), driver diameter 14.6 mm., front cover diameter 16.2 mm., mmcx detachable cable
> 2) Ling (铃) 229$, Brass housing, 195Ohm, N52 magnet strength (more than 1 Tesla), driver diameter 14.5 mm., front cover diameter 16.1 mm.


----------



## Mimouille

chaiyuta said:


> This is called 'Black Bell'. (Bell = Ling in Chinese pronouncing sound). it is lower level than 'Poseidon'. Different driver and Different housing material. Bell use N52 magnet strength driver, Brass housing, while Poseidon use N55 magnet strength driver, Silver housing.
> 
> Below is my previous comments.


Cool, great info, it would have taken me quite some time to decipher in Chinese...so I am between the Poseidon and Liebesleid, maybe I'll try both. Advantage of Poseidon is detachable cable, Liebesleid is much cheaper and has a 4.4 option.


----------



## ClieOS

@Mimouille as @chaiyuta already said, the latest K's flagship is named Poseidon, while Final Acoustics is the company that partnered with K's to develop these new earbuds (including the bell series).

Technically both Liebesleid and Poseidon are at the current ToTL level, but sonically they are tuned very differently. Liebesleid is detailed, open and almost neutral with a particularly good female vocal. Poseidon is warm, musical, smooth and enveloping with an excellent low end.


----------



## Mimouille

ClieOS said:


> @Mimouille as @chaiyuta already said, the latest K's flagship is named Poseidon, while Final Acoustics is the company that partnered with K's to develop these new earbuds (including the bell series).
> 
> Technically both Liebesleid and Poseidon are at the current ToTL level, but sonically they are tuned very differently. Liebesleid is detailed, open and almost neutral with a particularly good female vocal. Poseidon is warm, musical, smooth and enveloping with an excellent low end.


 Crap, sounds like I need both


----------



## seanc6441

Mimouille said:


> Crap, sounds like I need both


what I was thinking lol


----------



## golov17

Sound good


----------



## seanc6441

golov17 said:


> Sound good


What’s that on the membrane... I’ve never seen that before. How good does it sound? Shozy BK good?


----------



## golov17 (Dec 25, 2017)

seanc6441 said:


> What’s that on the membrane... I’ve never seen that before. How good does it sound? Shozy BK good?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bio...e-recent-iem-example-vsonic-gr-07-r07.568694/
 
http://s.aliexpress.com/mIvqYbIZ?fromSns=


----------



## mochill

Biocellulose??


----------



## Saoshyant

Hmm..  Pos sounds like it'd suit me


----------



## kurtextrem

golov17 said:


> Sound good


Wow. Shozy needs to use those too, because the foam of Shozy BK attracts moist too much (at least for me, that was the reason why I had to send my first one back)


----------



## CingKrab

Does anyone know a good replacement for the old Radioshack foamies (3300376 or 33-376)?  I really liked the way the thicker foam fits.  Are the Hiegi foam as thick as those?  Or https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...p-Ear-Pads-Cover-Replacement/32790634729.html are these thick also?  Would appreciate any suggestions.


----------



## luckyeights

ClieOS said:


> @Mimouille as @chaiyuta already said, the latest K's flagship is named Poseidon, while Final Acoustics is the company that partnered with K's to develop these new earbuds (including the bell series).
> 
> Technically both Liebesleid and Poseidon are at the current ToTL level, but sonically they are tuned very differently. Liebesleid is detailed, open and almost neutral with a particularly good female vocal. Poseidon is warm, musical, smooth and enveloping with an excellent low end.




The old flag ship was the Samsara how does the new Poseidon compare?  I have the Samsara and i am very curious of this new flag ship as i absolutely love the samsara's sound signature.


----------



## ClieOS

luckyeights said:


> The old flag ship was the Samsara how does the new Poseidon compare?  I have the Samsara and i am very curious of this new flag ship as i absolutely love the samsara's sound signature.



Haven't compared them directly yet, but two things are apparent: 1) similar K's house sound and 2) Poseidon is more refined. I personally already rated Samsara as one of the ToTL earbuds in the past so Poseidon is more of an evolution rather than a revolution.


----------



## Saoshyant

Interesting, trying out a game that says it uses binaural Audio.  I imagine my CampFred 2 might be the best suited for it, but perhaps the Mojito as it does have that impressive soundstage.


----------



## euge

Saoshyant said:


> Interesting, trying out a game that says it uses binaural Audio.  I imagine my CampFred 2 might be the best suited for it, but perhaps the Mojito as it does have that impressive soundstage.



Hellblade?


----------



## HungryPanda (Dec 26, 2017)

Synergy, Lotoo Paw 5000 MKII and NiceHCK EB200 my goodness Supertramp never sounded so good. I could not believe I would come across someone who could rock my audio world like Jim. EBX, EB200 and his iem Bro. Chi-fi at it is best for 2017


----------



## RodRevenge

Finally got my seahf 64 after a 63 days of waiting , been using them for 6 days now,  the sound is amazing (not even mad about the waiting now).

Feels like this bud has a nice synergy with my music, it keeps up with the busy parts pretty well and can still hear a fair amount of details don't really know why but my faaeals aren't able to do that.

In my ears  (?) They are on the bright side with a great treble giving the guitars a  vibrant sound (which i reaaally love), that being said the lows are still present this one has the best bass i have heard in my short earbud lover life, it is pretty damn satisfying it is present and gives a nice body without getting in the way which is mandatory for my music, playing dark souls 3 with the buds on was beautiful if you are looking for a cheapo for gaming i would pick this one. Anyway im a seahf fan someone knows if the seahf 32T sounds the same? There are like 20 different 32 versions and if i liked the 64 whats next?


----------



## HungryPanda

Try something else NiceHCK EB200 for a nice change is my recommendation


----------



## HungryPanda

I actually prefer the 32T


----------



## Saoshyant

euge said:


> Hellblade?



Yep, hoping it's a solid game.


----------



## luckyeights

Well I got my penon bs1 officials today and iv never been more creeped out by a headphone before..... my god the realism is uncanny....... The sound stage is just so accurate and the sounds literally feel accurate its down right creepy.  I listened to the below youtube video and my skin and hair and everything was literally like feeling the sounds it was so flippin creepy!  Im going to do more testing but these things so far are very impressive beyond the $99 asking price that is for certain.   The build quality alone is worth that add in the ultra creepy realistic sound and wow!  Iv never heard anything like these at least not in an earbud and i own A LOT of earbuds.  Im listening to an orchestra now and please just do yourself a favor these are worth every penny of $99  Hell if they go to $199 still buy them! I know im really hyping these but wow they just sound so perfect I cant describe it.  My past top earbud that i never thought would be dethroned was my k's samsara but these are like an improvement on them and they are cheaper.  Typically i would describe a headphone as warm or cold and maybe say they have more bass, mids or highs or something along those lines.... these im just gona say accurate and leave it at that.  They are the most accurate iv heard so far *drops microphone and walks away* 




I own:
K's samsara
Rose masya
ty 650
qian 39
mx 500
vido
nicehk pk2
graphene
sony 808+
monk
and a few more just cant remember of the top of my head


----------



## SweetEars

RodRevenge said:


> Finally got my seahf 64 after a 63 days of waiting , been using them for 6 days now,  the sound is amazing (not even mad about the waiting now).
> 
> Feels like this bud has a nice synergy with my music, it keeps up with the busy parts pretty well and can still hear a fair amount of details don't really know why but my faaeals aren't able to do that.
> 
> In my ears  (?) They are on the bright side with a great treble giving the guitars a  vibrant sound (which i reaaally love), that being said the lows are still present this one has the best bass i have heard in my short earbud lover life, it is pretty damn satisfying it is present and gives a nice body without getting in the way which is mandatory for my music, playing dark souls 3 with the buds on was beautiful if you are looking for a cheapo for gaming i would pick this one. Anyway im a seahf fan someone knows if the seahf 32T sounds the same? There are like 20 different 32 versions and if i liked the 64 whats next?


can i know the link to buy the seaf 64?


----------



## Tim Le

Hey guys, I'm going to list my CampFred 2 for sale pretty soon, but I thought I'd give one of the fellow earbud fanatics in this thread a chance to snatch them up first. I'm the 2nd owner, and I'd be willing to sell them for less than what I got them for. I'd prefer to sell in CONUS, so priority will go to anyone messaging me from there. Thank you!


----------



## chaiyuta

@luckyeights : After I bought BS1 Official 2.5 plug and shared impression as second behind Audio123's review here, good to know that no one is unsatisfied with it. I am relieved.


----------



## gazzington

I have just ordered both bs1 for $99. Sounds like it could be a bargain


----------



## golov17

luckyeights said:


> Well I got my penon bs1 officials today and iv never been more creeped out by a headphone before..... my god the realism is uncanny....... The sound stage is just so accurate and the sounds literally feel accurate its down right creepy.  I listened to the below youtube video and my skin and hair and everything was literally like feeling the sounds it was so flippin creepy!  Im going to do more testing but these things so far are very impressive beyond the $99 asking price that is for certain.   The build quality alone is worth that add in the ultra creepy realistic sound and wow!  Iv never heard anything like these at least not in an earbud and i own A LOT of earbuds.  Im listening to an orchestra now and please just do yourself a favor these are worth every penny of $99  Hell if they go to $199 still buy them! I know im really hyping these but wow they just sound so perfect I cant describe it.  My past top earbud that i never thought would be dethroned was my k's samsara but these are like an improvement on them and they are cheaper.  Typically i would describe a headphone as warm or cold and maybe say they have more bass, mids or highs or something along those lines.... these im just gona say accurate and leave it at that.  They are the most accurate iv heard so far *drops microphone and walks away*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 On the way..


----------



## dennisopk

gazzington said:


> I have just ordered both bs1 for $99. Sounds like it could be a bargain



Can you share the link where you ordered them, thanks


----------



## golov17

dennisopk said:


> Can you share the link where you ordered them, thanks


https://penon-official.com/product/bs1-official-version/


----------



## gazzington

I emailed penlon and asked if the deal was still on, they said yes but few left. Tell them your from head fi, as that’s what I did!


----------



## gazzington

penonaudio@hotmail.com


----------



## CingKrab

gazzington said:


> I emailed penlon and asked if the deal was still on, they said yes but few left. Tell them your from head fi, as that’s what I did!



Bad news -- I got an email from them that the Experience version is out of stock, so no more throw in for the older earbud.


----------



## luedriver

luckyeights said:


>





just saw this as I'm using my black diy graphene, as they are the most realistic earbuds I currently own I had to try it...

couldn't last 2 mins for fear that someone was in the room shaking a matchbox around my head, seriously


----------



## gacyde

Hi need some recommendation

I post on help thread but no answer

what is the best flat/neutral/balanced earbud for $25?

Thank you


----------



## gazzington

CingKrab said:


> Bad news -- I got an email from them that the Experience version is out of stock, so no more throw in for the older earbud.


Im sorry ☹


----------



## Danneq

gacyde said:


> Hi need some recommendation
> 
> I post on help thread but no answer
> 
> ...



Moondrop Nameless might fit your preferences pretty well.

You can buy them on Aliexpress.


----------



## gazzington

I’ve sent off for moondrop nameless today too.


----------



## snip3r77




----------



## golov17 (Dec 27, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


>


Respect.
I replaced the dampers, removed the excess glue, after tuning it sounds great.


----------



## theoutsider

snip3r77 said:


>


I think they handled the situation professionally +1


----------



## RodRevenge

SweetEars said:


> can i know the link to buy the seaf 64?


Sure, my man
https://es.aliexpress.com/item/2017...32821569829.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.E70606


----------



## chaiyuta

golov17 said:


> Respect.
> I replaced the dampers, removed the excess glue, after tuning it sounds great.



Agreed. glue is too much. and the damper inside (not the back of shell) would be pasted at the back of driver rather than mix with glue in the middle.


----------



## CingKrab

gazzington said:


> Im sorry ☹



No worries! Probably shouldn't be spending more money on earbuds right now anyway haha.


----------



## lyrean (Dec 27, 2017)

I'm searching for an earbud that would be quite warm and full sounding with no sibilance on highs. I prefer instrument separation over huge soundstage. I like bass to be little boosted but I don't like it to leak into midrange. I still like my Yincrow X6/Vido the most but I'm wondering if I could get better sound if I put little more money on it (max 40$)?

PMV B01 Aoede may suit my needs for some extent but are there any other options?


----------



## HungryPanda

Seahf 64 lyrean


----------



## waynes world

snip3r77 said:


>



When @golov17 speaks, earbud manufacturers listen!


I wasn't aware of the issues. But I wish that Kinera would start making those limited edition buds again so that I could get my ears on a pair!


----------



## luckyeights

OK further analysis of Penon bs1 official vs K's samsara.   Ok so the BS1 has more clarity and resolution and a wider sound stage.  The BS1 losses a slight bit of warmth compared to the Samsara.  The layering of the BS1 is better than the Samsara as you can pick out details more easily.   Things that are distant sound as such and are still very detailed where as with the samsara some of these finer details are smoothed over.  

Some drawbacks the metal part on the wire that separates the wires to left and right channels is heavy and pulls the earbuds loose sometimes, they give you a clip to counter this.  The other drawback is the housing area that you can grab with your fingers is really small so can be a little hard to get a grip on the bud to get it positioned in your ear.  These are just design nitpicks but hey just letting yah know. 

So far very pleased with these buds.  Best build quality iv seen on a bud thus far and the sound matches its build quality Penon hit a home run on these.


----------



## lyrean (Dec 27, 2017)

HungryPanda said:


> Seahf 64 lyrean



I guess you mean the same earbud RodRevenge talked about few pages back?


----------



## HungryPanda

Probably


----------



## chinmie

lyrean said:


> I'm searching for an earbud that would be quite warm and full sounding with no sibilance on highs. I prefer instrument separation over huge soundstage. I like bass to be little boosted but I don't like it to leak into midrange. I still like my Yincrow X6/Vido the most but I'm wondering if I could get better sound if I put little more money on it (max 40$)?
> 
> PMV B01 Aoede may suit my needs for some extent but are there any other options?



to me, the best obvious upgrades to the heavy hitters (like the vidos, ry4s, emx500, yincrow x6) is the Willsound mk2.


----------



## lyrean

chinmie said:


> to me, the best obvious upgrades to the heavy hitters (like the vidos, ry4s, emx500, yincrow x6) is the Willsound mk2.



Thanks. Does Willsound ship his earbuds outside Indonesia? I couldn't find them anywhere, just a facebook page.


----------



## chinmie

lyrean said:


> Thanks. Does Willsound ship his earbuds outside Indonesia? I couldn't find them anywhere, just a facebook page.



i think so, because many of the members here across the globe have them. try to contact Willy on the Facebook page, or try Rholupat.com, i think they also handle selling the Willsound for outside of Indonesia


----------



## chellity

What was the issue with the kinera buds?


----------



## SweetEars

of the 3 earbuds i have this is what i notice .

EMX500- works well for airy music 
R4YS - works better on movies 
Graphene ( new version) - works better on high res stuff


----------



## redkingjoe

waynes world said:


> When @golov17 speaks, earbud manufacturers listen!
> 
> 
> I wasn't aware of the issues. But I wish that Kinera would start making those limited edition buds again so that I could get my ears on a pair!



So, is it possible to ask @golov17 to instruct them to make another batch for headfi forums?

I really love bio-cell diaphragm!


----------



## waynes world

SweetEars said:


> of the 3 earbuds i have this is what i notice .
> 
> EMX500- works well for airy music
> R4YS - works better on movies
> Graphene ( new version) - works better on high res stuff



Fyi, just got the "new" graphenes and plopped them in my ears (directly after listening to the old graphenes). I'm not in critical listening mode at the moment, and I'll be trying different foams than the full foams that were already on them, and I'm gonna let them burn in for a bit. But first impressions: there is nothing at all repulsive about them!


----------



## golov17

lyrean said:


> Thanks. Does Willsound ship his earbuds outside Indonesia? I couldn't find them anywhere, just a facebook page.


Easy, PayPal


----------



## golov17

redkingjoe said:


> I really love bio-cell diaphragm!


 me too


----------



## golov17

luckyeights said:


> OK further analysis of Penon bs1 official vs K's samsara.   Ok so the BS1 has more clarity and resolution and a wider sound stage.  The BS1 losses a slight bit of warmth compared to the Samsara.  The layering of the BS1 is better than the Samsara as you can pick out details more easily.   Things that are distant sound as such and are still very detailed where as with the samsara some of these finer details are smoothed over.
> 
> Some drawbacks the metal part on the wire that separates the wires to left and right channels is heavy and pulls the earbuds loose sometimes, they give you a clip to counter this.  The other drawback is the housing area that you can grab with your fingers is really small so can be a little hard to get a grip on the bud to get it positioned in your ear.  These are just design nitpicks but hey just letting yah know.
> 
> So far very pleased with these buds.  Best build quality iv seen on a bud thus far and the sound matches its build quality Penon hit a home run on these.


@mochill


----------



## SweetEars

waynes world said:


> Fyi, just got the "new" graphenes and plopped them in my ears (directly after listening to the old graphenes). I'm not in critical listening mode at the moment, and I'll be trying different foams than the full foams that were already on them, and I'm gonna let them burn in for a bit. But first impressions: there is nothing at all repulsive about them!


ok let me know what u feel about them...i feel that they do not have the top down articulation  or the details of the R4YS and EMx500. however what they win over is soundstage,  and transparency .


----------



## golov17

redkingjoe said:


> So, is it possible to ask @golov17 to instruct them to make another batch for headfi forums?
> 
> I really love bio-cell diaphragm!


 Email sent


----------



## antdroid

luckyeights said:


> OK further analysis of Penon bs1 official vs K's samsara.   Ok so the BS1 has more clarity and resolution and a wider sound stage.  The BS1 losses a slight bit of warmth compared to the Samsara.  The layering of the BS1 is better than the Samsara as you can pick out details more easily.   Things that are distant sound as such and are still very detailed where as with the samsara some of these finer details are smoothed over.
> 
> Some drawbacks the metal part on the wire that separates the wires to left and right channels is heavy and pulls the earbuds loose sometimes, they give you a clip to counter this.  The other drawback is the housing area that you can grab with your fingers is really small so can be a little hard to get a grip on the bud to get it positioned in your ear.  These are just design nitpicks but hey just letting yah know.
> 
> So far very pleased with these buds.  Best build quality iv seen on a bud thus far and the sound matches its build quality Penon hit a home run on these.



Nice. I get my BS1 on Friday. Hopefully DHL does not mess up the delivery like they usually do.


----------



## dennisopk

I have the AKG flagship earbud K319 which is discontinued and love its sound. I like to update to a new earbud and the sound must be like the AKG319 but with more bass, any recommendation?


----------



## SweetEars

i like to change the view of R4YS.. earlier i said i preferred the sound of the EMX500.. but now after plugging int he R4YS i feel it managed to walk all over the EMX500.

R4YS should be the top 3  budget king now


----------



## golov17

dennisopk said:


> I have the AKG flagship earbud K319 which is discontinued and love its sound. I like to update to a new earbud and the sound must be like the AKG319 but with more bass, any recommendation?


You can try changing the rubber rings for a better fit


----------



## dennisopk

golov17 said:


> You can try changing the rubber rings for a better fit


You mean change the rubber rings more bass come out. I don't have the rubber rings. Can you also recommend a new model ear bud that got it sound but better bass


----------



## RodRevenge

lyrean said:


> I guess you mean the same earbud RodRevenge talked about few pages back?


Yup that one, great bud, it's not warm in my ears but still has a great bass, really satisfying and it doesnt get in the way, separation is good it gets the job done even with my prog/extreme metal. Sadly i see the treble being harsh for some people, i advice you to try them since it is pretty cheap ($6USD).


----------



## golov17

dennisopk said:


> You mean change the rubber rings more bass come out. I don't have the rubber rings. Can you also recommend a new model ear bud that got it sound but better bass


Try Willsound32 mk1


----------



## Danneq

dennisopk said:


> I have the AKG flagship earbud K319 which is discontinued and love its sound. I like to update to a new earbud and the sound must be like the AKG319 but with more bass, any recommendation?



AKG K319 is pretty unique and you will not find anything that sounds exactly the same. However, I think you might like Yincrow RW-777. It has got a similar type of sound to that of K319. Big soundstage and great details. I do find the bass of RW-777 to be slightly better defined and textured than K319. However I am comparing from memory since I sold my K319 about 1 year ago. I usually prefer a more full and warm sound but Yincrow RW-777 has amazed me with it's soundstage and instrument layering. You can buy them from Ali express for around $45-50...


----------



## euge

BS1 official sounds incredible! cable slightly heavy like the others have mention, not a problem if you're not moving around too much, might grab a get a 2nd pair.

Also did not expect the cable to be so soft!


----------



## golov17

Last news.. so sad


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> Last news.. so sad



Wohoo! That saves me $25-30! (well, you need to see it in a positive way)  Also I am fighting myself to NOT buy Penon BS1 official. I have my eye on Crow Audio Raven mk 2 but will not buy it for another month or two. So I might miss it since it's a very limited release.


----------



## golov17

Danneq said:


> Wohoo! That saves me $25-30! (well, you need to see it in a positive way)  Also I am fighting myself to NOT buy Penon BS1 official. I have my eye on Crow Audio Raven mk 2 but will not buy it for another month or two. So I might miss it since it's a very limited release.


I would like that @ClieOS  checked them..


----------



## diavolo rosso

anyone here ever compare Toneking TP16 with Qian69? which one have better detail and wider soundstage?


----------



## Majin

SweetEars said:


> i like to change the view of R4YS.. earlier i said i preferred the sound of the EMX500.. but now after plugging int he R4YS i feel it managed to walk all over the EMX500.
> 
> R4YS should be the top 3  budget king now



What would the other 2 earbuds be?
For me the Vido and the qian25 are still better.


----------



## vladstef

These 2 new buds are seriously interesting to me. Both have very beautiful metal designs but no reviews as of yet. I especially like the continuous flow of their MMCX connectors with the housings.
(BGVP DX3 - 40$ and Fengru HYCK100 - 80$)


----------



## HungryPanda

golov17 said:


> Last news.. so sad


 Not too sad, there are as many earbuds out there at the moment . We are so spoiled for choice.I was just sitting here with Seahf AWK-F150C plugged into iBasso DX80 listening to Steven Wilson's hand.cannot.erase album, was amazed. Life cannot get any better


----------



## RodRevenge

HungryPanda said:


> Not too sad, there are as many earbuds out there at the moment . We are so spoiled for choice.I was just sitting here with Seahf AWK-F150C plugged into iBasso DX80 listening to Steven Wilson's hand.cannot.erase album, was amazed. Life cannot get any better


His best album imo


----------



## Unex

Agreed with @golov17 . Better assembly and Kinera buds will worth twice as much. Less glue, open bass port,better dumping and they are golden, drivers is already good.





7+ photos:
https://imgur.com/a/fSgmk


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> Not too sad, there are as many earbuds out there at the moment . We are so spoiled for choice.I was just sitting here with Seahf AWK-F150C plugged into iBasso DX80 listening to Steven Wilson's hand.cannot.erase album, was amazed. Life cannot get any better



I know what I'm gonna do this morning!


----------



## jant71 (Dec 28, 2017)

Do we have a NiceHCK EBX and Penon BS1 Official showdown yet??

And, yes, where are the BX3 reviews. That "sweet vocal as it's greatest feature" thing gives me pause about them having enough bass for outside where I'd use them most.


----------



## HungryPanda

That would be interesting jant, the NiceHck EBX is rather good


----------



## DBaldock9

After a few nudges, here and on Earbuds Anonymous, I ordered a set of the NiceHCK DIY Graphene MX760 Earbuds - back at the beginning of December.  They arrived today, and I like the overall balance of the sound, as well as the build quality and look of them.

Currently, they have the thick donut foams on them, and I've had them connected to my Onkyo DP-X1, and Zishan Z2/Walnut F1.


----------



## SweetEars

Majin said:


> What would the other 2 earbuds be?
> For me the Vido and the qian25 are still better.


maybe the graphenes old versions and the EMX500


----------



## ClieOS

vladstef said:


> ...Fengru HYCK100...



Always make me laugh when I saw how AE seller takes an earbud and renames it to something else. Search HY1000 in this thread and you should find some impression.


----------



## RodRevenge

I recieved my graphenes  (old version) and my zuperdac, kinda underwhelmed by both ;(


----------



## SweetEars

diavolo rosso said:


> anyone here ever compare Toneking TP16 with Qian69? which one have better detail and wider soundstage?





RodRevenge said:


> I recieved my graphenes  (old version) and my zuperdac, kinda underwhelmed by both ;(


why????????????


----------



## fairx

RodRevenge said:


> I recieved my graphenes  (old version) and my zuperdac, kinda underwhelmed by both ;(


When they're paired together or as standalone? How well are they paired with other stuff.


----------



## waynes world

RodRevenge said:


> I recieved my graphenes  (old version) and my zuperdac, kinda underwhelmed by both ;(



Huh! x 2!


----------



## RodRevenge

fairx said:


> When they're paired together or as standalone? How well are they paired with other stuff.


Standalone, i added a donut to the Graphene ( stock foam + donut know) much better but still... the sound doesn't feel natural to me, i like them, stuff like Rodrigo & Gabriela makes them shine but i still like my seahf 64 more and they are way cheaper. 
As for the zuperdac i dont hear a difference maybe im deaf .


----------



## acap13

RodRevenge said:


> Standalone, i added a donut to the Graphene ( stock foam + donut know) much better but still... the sound doesn't feel natural to me, i like them, stuff like Rodrigo & Gabriela makes them shine but i still like my seahf 64 more and they are way cheaper.
> As for the zuperdac i dont hear a difference maybe im deaf .



Just curios, how long have you been burning in? But then, it could be the old Graphene doesnt suit your musical preference. Perhaps


----------



## RodRevenge

waynes world said:


> Huh! x 2!


I don't hear much difference while using the zuperdac sadly, will listen more and see what happens


----------



## wskl

Today I will be giving my impressions on the Monk Lite along with comparisons with the Monk+.  First of all is the gold/black 40 ohm version.



_*gold/black 40 ohm Monk Lite and darth black Monk+*_

They have the same laid-back presentation of the Monk+ but they are tuned differently.  Whereas the Monk+ has a warm tonality, the Lite is more neutral sounding, leaning towards a bright signature.

There is less bass than the Monk+ and possibly better quality, less bloom.  The Monk+ has a warm midrange, the Lite in comparison will sound thinner with less body and weight, having said that, the Lite has better clarity and the mids will sound more clean and clear.  Treble is brighter and more crisp on the Lite, while the Monk+ is on the smoother side but I do think the Lite's treble is also more refined, however I did experience some piercing treble on one of my recordings, having only listened to a fraction of my music library, there is the possibility that it can happen again.

Soundstage is quite decent with a good sense of space showing good instrument separation, it passed some of my test tracks showing no heavy congestion.  Not the most detailed, you may have a harder time picking out details, they are still there but a bit more subdued.  The size of the soundstage is similar between the two, but the Monk+ has better instrument separation and resolution is a bit higher.


_*silver/white 120 ohm Monk Lite*_

As mentioned in the first paragraph, the above opinions are based on the 40 ohm version, the silver/white 120 ohm version that I have, to my ears the only significant changes I can hear compared to the 40 is that they have a little more mid-bass, maybe an extra 2-3dB, they are a tad warmer sounding and have a bit less treble.  Perhaps for the treble sensitive, the 120 may be the better option.  If you listen to a lot of female vocals, then the 40 will most likely have the edge due to the fact that its upper mids are brighter.

My impressions are based on using the Monk+ thin foams, the included foams that come with the Lite and those in the Ex Pack Lite are slightly thicker than the Monk+ thin foams.  They will add a bit of warmth but you also lose a bit in clarity so you need to weigh up the pros and cons.

In terms of SQ, the Monk Lite is not going to set the world alight and for sure they won't replace your better sounding earbuds, however the SQ is acceptable in this price segment and I think they are quite suitable for casual listening, for critical listening you should look elsewhere.

Would I recommend them?  Well I would say they are not a must-buy, but I for one will keep hold of them as I prefer smaller shells for my ears due to better comfort, as opposed to the popular MX500 shell, and for $6 they are not going to put a big dent in your wallet either.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 29, 2017)

luckyeights said:


> Well I got my penon bs1 officials today and iv never been more creeped out by a headphone before..... my god the realism is uncanny....... The sound stage is just so accurate and the sounds literally feel accurate its down right creepy.  I listened to the below youtube video and my skin and hair and everything was literally like feeling the sounds it was so flippin creepy!  Im going to do more testing but these things so far are very impressive beyond the $99 asking price that is for certain.   The build quality alone is worth that add in the ultra creepy realistic sound and wow!  Iv never heard anything like these at least not in an earbud and i own A LOT of earbuds.  Im listening to an orchestra now and please just do yourself a favor these are worth every penny of $99  Hell if they go to $199 still buy them! I know im really hyping these but wow they just sound so perfect I cant describe it.  My past top earbud that i never thought would be dethroned was my k's samsara but these are like an improvement on them and they are cheaper.  Typically i would describe a headphone as warm or cold and maybe say they have more bass, mids or highs or something along those lines.... these im just gona say accurate and leave it at that.  They are the most accurate iv heard so far *drops microphone and walks away*
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Nice to know my opinion aligns with yours and others. There’s like multiple layers of depth in the soundstage with excellent imaging to discern deep sounds from upfront sounds. It’s like how a full size headphone can pick of those details and so can this earbud.

My only gripe is the midrange being slightly bright and not 100% natural but with a warmer or neutral warm source this could probably be remedied.

I’m switching between heigi donuts (less airy and more upfront sound) and double monk thins in donut form ( airy and more treble but slightly less smooth and slightly too bright maybe)

I think I’d stick with the monk foams in donut and doubled up and just use them with a warmer/fuller source to get the absolute best balance out of these. They respond well to any changes of source and EQ as they are quite sensitive.


----------



## chaiyuta (Dec 29, 2017)

I looked up to Shozy Taobao store and I found the revised flagship earbuds model.

Shozy BK Poseidon : 307$, 4-wire silver cable with Blue Ocean - coloured insulator. Add up 100 yaun for getting 2.5 mm. or 4.4 mm. Plug.

For Penon BS1 Official, once you guys let your BS1 surpassed 50 hour burn-in. It would tend to neutral with a tad bright or a tad warm tone depend on a source or a player and your habitude. The reason that I choose to use BS1 without sponges cause sponges will block the 3 vent holes beneath its shells and it affect to SQ more than typical shell that has vent holes at the back of shell.


----------



## Mimouille

chaiyuta said:


> I looked up to Shozy Taobao store and I found the revised flagship earbuds model.
> 
> Shozy BK Poseidon : 307$, 4-wire silver cable with Blue Ocean - coloured insulator. Add up 100 yaun for getting 2.5 mm. or 4.4 mm. Plug.



Apparently it is a limited edition with a silver cable. The earbud is similar.


----------



## chaiyuta

@Mimouille : Wow, you replied so fast. and Yes, it is Shozy BK with a different kind of cable.


----------



## Mimouille

chaiyuta said:


> @Mimouille : Wow, you replied so fast. and Yes, it is Shozy BK with a different kind of cable.


I was talking to Shozy when you posted it


----------



## seanc6441

Why did shozy use poseidon when the new K’s earbud is also poseidon lol.

Kinda funny markering.

Either way it looks cool and if the driver is not tuned differently it would be a cool way to test the cables of both bk’s (copper vs silver) against each other.

As for the BS1 I agree the tuning is striving for ‘neutral’ the more the driver is being burned in the more mature the sound becomes at first.

Being neutral the source will be the determining factor here for a warmer or neutral-cooler sound.


----------



## chaiyuta

wskl said:


> _*silver/white 120 ohm Monk Lite*_



This picture looks deceptive appearance to my eyes. The front one looks longer than the behind one. Oh my eyes !!


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

HungryPanda said:


> FAAEAL Snow-lotus 2.0 HIFI Earphone 64Ohms silver plated wire Upgraded version Heavy Bass Sound Earphones  Universal 3.5MM Jack
> http://s.aliexpress.com/eaI3YbEV
> (from AliExpress Android)[/


Oh, this look nice. Just have old FAAEL.....wonder if they have different driver and soundsignature, sure have different cable. Any comparaison between different Faeel models? Did not know the Snow-lotus ones....


----------



## j4100

Did anyone buy the Hi-Z AWK-F150TS? You know, the one with one red and one blue bud? Saw it on the Penon Ali site. Looks like a seahf part number


----------



## golov17

Shozy win


----------



## Unex (Dec 29, 2017)

Fast _engrish_ review  of* Monk Lite 40ohm and 120ohm ver.*
Source: Hidisz AP100
Music: Different from sympho metal to acoustic and PoP.

In short, the first monks are better. 40 ohm version with a mudy bass, 120 ohms less mudy, but  in general  sound signature is the same - recessed trebles,  weak mids and mid-bass domination.
Bad with multi-instrumental, fast music. Acceptable under PoP, acoustics, something where there are few instruments and / or its artificialy generated electronic sound.
As example :
Lindsey Stirling, Diablo Swing Orchestra, Katzenjammer  sounds acceptable. (but they sound good on anything, lol)

In general, for a few dollars, to use with  a smartphone - Ok. Just dont try to find something what laid behind more expensive earbuds.
SPC version comes in a box with earbuds and a hard case, beautifully packed - you can easily gift it. But there are no clothespins, and it's sad.


Spoiler


----------



## RodRevenge

acap13 said:


> Just curios, how long have you been burning in? But then, it could be the old Graphene doesnt suit your musical preference. Perhaps


Not much, i dont really believe in burning in, it works great with my acoustic and instrumental music (as far as it not too bussy), great bud, not great for metal though.


----------



## golov17

Mimouille said:


> I was talking to Shozy when you posted it


I too


----------



## RodRevenge

Btw where do you guys buy your full foams? Also, do some of you use earhooks? If so, which ones?


----------



## seanc6441

golov17 said:


> Shozy win


Whats the earbud on the right?


----------



## golov17

seanc6441 said:


> Whats the earbud on the right?


Docomo stock


----------



## waynes world

RodRevenge said:


> Not much, i dont really believe in burning in, it works great with my acoustic and instrumental music (as far as it not too bussy), great bud, not great for metal though.



I don't listen to metal, so I can't comment on that (I mainly listen to prog rock and trance).

Anyway, it can't hurt to let them burn in for at least a few hours. Also, try different foams (I prefer donuts with the graphenes). And try angling the buds in your ears to get a better fit/seal. If I angle the bottom of the stem forward, then I get a better seal and more bass.

Ultimately, the graphenes seem to be somewhat polarizing, and they just might not be for you. I personally love their sound, maybe because they sound different than traditionally tuned earbuds. I find that my ears get a bit bored of more traditionally tuned earbuds somewhat quickly, but not so with the graphenes.


----------



## RodRevenge

waynes world said:


> I don't listen to metal, so I can't comment on that (I mainly listen to prog rock and trance).
> 
> Anyway, it can't hurt to let them burn in for at least a few hours. Also, try different foams (I prefer donuts with the graphenes). And try angling the buds in your ears to get a better fit/seal. If I angle the bottom of the stem forward, then I get a better seal and more bass.
> 
> Ultimately, the graphenes seem to be somewhat polarizing, and they just might not be for you. I personally love their sound, maybe because they sound different than traditionally tuned earbuds. I find that my ears get a bit bored of more traditionally tuned earbuds somewhat quickly, but not so with the graphenes.


I also listen a lot of prog rock, i have been playing with them, they are good, i think i found what i dont like about them, they are amazing with strings BUT drums sound weird, the snare especially thin, kinda like metalic, i fee like im listening to st.anger lol. I'll leave them burn a lil bit and see what happens. 
As for the zuperdac is there a way to make it work with spotify ? I purchased uapp but im kinda lost here.


----------



## HungryPanda

The Snow Lotus 2.0 is a fine earbud indeed


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> The Snow Lotus 2.0 is a fine earbud indeed



It really is. Thanks for pointing me in it's direction!


----------



## RodRevenge

New Seahf AWK-F32MG In Ear Earphone 32ohms Earbud Flat Head Plug Earplugs HIFI Bass Headset Cartoon Anime Earbud Free Shipping
http://s.aliexpress.com/nA7B3QJf?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard 
(from AliExpress Android)

Lol at this one


----------



## waynes world

RodRevenge said:


> I also listen a lot of prog rock, i have been playing with them, they are good, i think i found what i dont like about them, they are amazing with strings BUT drums sound weird, the snare especially thin, kinda like metalic, i fee like im listening to st.anger lol. I'll leave them burn a lil bit and see what happens.



Good idea, it might make a difference. Let us know.



> As for the zuperdac is there a way to make it work with spotify ? I purchased uapp but im kinda lost here.



UAPP is a bit quirky, that's for sure.

Firsly, have you listened to local files (preferably lossless) using UAPP and the zuperdac? You can try these two scenarios:

(1) listening via S7's dac: UAPP, "settings", "Play thorugh Android=ON", do not plug in the zuperdac, plug your earbuds into the headphone jack and listen to a local song. Just to be safe, make sure that the S7 sound settings (like EQ, surround, adapt sound etc) are all turned off.

(2) listening via zuperdac: UAPP, "settings", "Play thorugh Android=OFF", plug the zuperdac into your phone, plug your earbuds into the zuperdac, and listen to a local song

You really should get a jump in SQ using the zuperdac. Let me know.

As far as spotify is concerned, UAPP doesn't support it (you could post the question in this thread though if you like). It does support Tidal though, and although it's a pain, you could switch to using Tidal (which if you pay the $20/month, you'll get lossless streaming - but I just use the $10/month 320kbps plan).

Btw, I just tried the zuperdac WITHOUT using UUAP. I went into the Samsung music app, plugged in the zuperdac, plugged my headphones into the zuperdac, and pressed play on "Black Hole Sun". Obviously the S7 is feeding through the zuperdac because I can hear it. But the volume doesn't go high enough. And it is "underwhelming" (as you put it). I then switched to listening to the same song via UAPP and the zuperdac, and it's way better (and goes way louder). So I'm not sure what's going on when NOT using UAPP - maybe android is still processing the sound. Until I figure that out, I'd use UAPP with the Zuperdac.

Fwiw, as much as I like the S7/UAPP/Zuperdac combo for SQ, lately I've been using the Fiio BTR1 bluetooth receiver most of the time. The SQ is very good, and not having anything plugged into my phone is beautiful. You might want to consider using your Zuperdac on your laptop/computer, and getting something like the BTR1 for your mobile listening pleasure.


----------



## gazzington

I've had snow lotus 2 for a few days. Really good for the price


----------



## Saoshyant

I just ordered the Raven Mk 2, so apologies to Danneq if this means they're no longer available.  As a fan of Crow, I really couldn't pass it up.  Let's hope they still have stock for my order.


----------



## antdroid

Just got my Penon Audio BS1 Official & Experience plus they threw in a ton of ear bud foams of all different colors and types and a Christmas card.  

I just put on the BS1 Official in for some initial listen and they sound great! Very wide range and stage/imaging. The wire is no joke. It's a tad beefy and looks like a snake to me. It's also very cold on the ears, but I do like it. The ear buds are small and are extremely comfortable when compared to my other main buds the Masya and the 1More Quads. These are more comfortable than Monks+ but again the cable is a little heavier than expected.

Anyway, I'll let these play for a bit and give more thought to it later. I also have to try out the cheaper Experience ones I got for free.


----------



## euge (Dec 29, 2017)

Recently got these arrived with the bs1, cables pretty stiff but SQ is great, especially the massive soundstage


antdroid said:


> Just got my Penon Audio BS1 Official & Experience plus they threw in a ton of ear bud foams of all different colors and types and a Christmas card.
> 
> I just put on the BS1 Official in for some initial listen and they sound great! Very wide range and stage/imaging. The wire is no joke. It's a tad beefy and looks like a snake to me. It's also very cold on the ears, but I do like it. The ear buds are small and are extremely comfortable when compared to my other main buds the Masya and the 1More Quads. These are more comfortable than Monks+ but again the cable is a little heavier than expected.
> 
> Anyway, I'll let these play for a bit and give more thought to it later. I also have to try out the cheaper Experience ones I got for free.



I find after wearing it for a long period you can feel the weight of the cable/splitter tugging the buds on your eye, can get a little uncomfortable compared to the lighter and smaller shozy or similar shells.

The inconsistent links length on the braids running down both sides of the buds also bothers me slightly lol.


----------



## seanc6441

euge said:


> Recently got these arrived with the bs1, cables pretty stiff but SQ is great, especially the massive soundstage
> 
> 
> I find after wearing it for a long period you can feel the weight of the cable/splitter tugging the buds on your eye, can get a little uncomfortable compared to the lighter and smaller shozy or similar shells.
> ...


I think if they replaced the heavy cable slider with a light one it would’ve been light enough to not slip... it is a little annoying but I found in time you get used to it.


----------



## waynes world

euge said:


> Recently got these arrived with the bs1, cables pretty stiff but SQ is great, especially the massive soundstage



They could use better pictures. But they look interesting, and not priced out of reach. How/where did you hear about them?


----------



## euge

waynes world said:


> They could use better pictures. But they look interesting, and not priced out of reach. How/where did you hear about them?



It was an impulse buy, just wanted to try something diff from the popular ones haha, the build is great, metal mesh and shell, with a flexible plastic stem. The soundstage is much more spacious compared to even the bs1


----------



## waynes world (Dec 29, 2017)

I temporarily misplaced my Seahf F150C's. Was getting a bit anxious, but whew, I found them.

I also just discovered that my Samsung S7's excellent "adapt sound" feature also works with the Fiio BTR1 bluetooth receiver (I didn't think it did). So listening to the below with the S7/BTR1/F150C (with adapt sound on), and it sounds so gooooooooood!



Spoiler: Turn away...


----------



## dennisopk

Just received Jim's NCK DIY PK2, listen thru my Vivo V3 max on HIfi Mode, the sound is close to the AKG K319 but when compared each got their Pro & Con, I like both their sounds. I wonder if I burn more hours on the PK2 will its sound improve...... I read review on the BS1 official and wonder about its sound whether it can sound better than them. Anyone can help me.


----------



## seanc6441

dennisopk said:


> Just received Jim's NCK DIY PK2, listen thru my Vivo V3 max on HIfi Mode, the sound is close to the AKG K319 but when compared each got their Pro & Con, I like both their sounds. I wonder if I burn more hours on the PK2 will its sound improve...... I read review on the BS1 official and wonder about its sound whether it can sound better than them. Anyone can help me.


the diy pk2 is a good all rounder especially the second one I got has a rubber coated braid cable and 2 back vents open so it’s slightly different maybe better than before.

But the bs1 official is another level up in all departments except for the fact that obviously the sound signature is different (neutral and balanced vs warm and mostly balanced). Also the soundstage on the pk2 is close but with good separation vs big 3D of the bs1 official.

I still enjoy the pk2 especially on the right source it can really shine, it’s excellent for the price and comparable to diy graphene imo just slightly different tuning and sound sig.


----------



## dennisopk

seanc6441 said:


> the diy pk2 is a good all rounder especially the second one I got has a rubber coated braid cable and 2 back vents open so it’s slightly different maybe better than before.
> 
> But the bs1 official is another level up in all departments except for the fact that obviously the sound signature is different (neutral and balanced vs warm and mostly balanced). Also the soundstage on the pk2 is close but with good separation vs big 3D of the bs1 official.
> 
> I still enjoy the pk2 especially on the right source it can really shine, it’s excellent for the price and comparable to diy graphene imo just slightly different tuning and sound sig.



Thanks, its time to level up, I will order the BS1 official.


----------



## JohannLiebert

So without going through the 1700pages. What are the best earbuds in overall sound quality and above all soundstaging? Regardless of the price, well maybe under 1000USD


----------



## chaiyuta

JohannLiebert said:


> So without going through the 1700pages. What are the best earbuds in overall sound quality and above all soundstaging? Regardless of the price, well maybe under 1000USD


I like your post. Perhaps @ClieOS and @Danneq could answer your question clearly.


----------



## Mimouille

JohannLiebert said:


> So without going through the 1700pages. What are the best earbuds in overall sound quality and above all soundstaging? Regardless of the price, well maybe under 1000USD


Nothing decent under 2k$ these days.


----------



## seanc6441

JohannLiebert said:


> So without going through the 1700pages. What are the best earbuds in overall sound quality and above all soundstaging? Regardless of the price, well maybe under 1000USD


Cypherus CAX Red Dragon he’ll most likely tell you. Think it goes for $600 and is comparable to full size headphones.


----------



## B9Scrambler

These finally arrived yesterday;

They strike a nice balance between the neutral-ish Penon BS1 Experience and relatively bassy HE 150Pro. It's too bad they were a limited release.


----------



## DBaldock9

DBaldock9 said:


> After a few nudges, here and on Earbuds Anonymous, I ordered a set of the NiceHCK DIY Graphene MX760 Earbuds - back at the beginning of December.  They arrived today, and I like the overall balance of the sound, as well as the build quality and look of them.
> 
> Currently, they have the thick donut foams on them, and I've had them connected to my Onkyo DP-X1, and Zishan Z2/Walnut F1.



Just FYI - In the box with the DIY Graphene MX760 Earbuds, was a couple of pairs of **** PT15 (no cables), as backup/replacement for the set I bought in the Spring. These newest ones have the housing with the single vent hole - but they sound the same (using frequency sweeps on audiocheck.net) as the current set, with the 4 vent holes.


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> Just FYI - In the box with the DIY Graphene MX760 Earbuds, was a couple of pairs of **** PT15 (no cables), as backup/replacement for the set I bought in the Spring. These newest ones have the housing with the single vent hole - but they sound the same (using frequency sweeps on audiocheck.net) as the current set, with the 4 vent holes.



Are those the "old" or "new" graphenes?

Good to know about the PT15's. I posted earlier that I didn't find the PT15's highs to be fatiguing. Well, that lasted until my ears got fatigued from the highs lol. They do sound good though and I enjoy them for a change now and then, but my ears prefer more bass and less energetic highs.


----------



## Danneq

JohannLiebert said:


> So without going through the 1700pages. What are the best earbuds in overall sound quality and above all soundstaging? Regardless of the price, well maybe under 1000USD





seanc6441 said:


> Cypherus CAX Red Dragon he’ll most likely tell you. Think it goes for $600 and is comparable to full size headphones.



Yeah, it would be Cypherus CAX Red Dragon. It's custom made. I got my pair second hand for a little over $600. The original price was over $700. Soundwise they are neutral-ish with a deep and wide soundstage with crazy instrument separation and layering. Everything is so well definied with an almost physical 3D presence. The shells are standard Sennheiser MX500 ones. The cable is very stiff. Up to the Y splitter the cable is like a tiny fire hose and from the y-splitter up the (stiff) cardas cable is used.

Spending so much on a pair of earbuds was an exception for me. I usually stick to earbuds up to $200 and love those, but Red Dragon easily outdoes any of my other TOTL earbuds...

There aren't many earbuds over $500. Venture Electronics might release VE Nirvana some time in the future and I read that it was going to be priced $1000.


----------



## cocolinho

I guess the cost is mainly due to the cable.
No way driver and shell can justified more than 1/10 of the price at most


----------



## Unex (Dec 30, 2017)

Monk Lite 40ohm. Thanks to mate from russian earbuds community:
http://player.ru/showthread.php?t=142371&p=2367693&viewfull=1#post2367693


----------



## Unex

Monk Lite 120ohm:
Thanks again to russian earbuds community:
http://player.ru/showthread.php?t=142371&p=2367777&viewfull=1#post2367777


----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> Are those the "old" or "new" graphenes?
> 
> Good to know about the PT15's. I posted earlier that I didn't find the PT15's highs to be fatiguing. Well, that lasted until my ears got fatigued from the highs lol. They do sound good though and I enjoy them for a change now and then, but my ears prefer more bass and less energetic highs.



The Graphene earbuds were ordered at the beginning of December - does that make them the new or old model?


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> The Graphene earbuds were ordered at the beginning of December - does that make them the new or old model?



Could be either: New, Old


----------



## mochill

New 16mm earbud on penon audio called HiFi boy dream for $125


----------



## seanc6441

mochill said:


> New 16mm earbud on penon audio called HiFi boy dream for $125


What a name haha...

Must be impressive ))


----------



## golov17 (Dec 30, 2017)

https://penonaudio.com/hifi-boy-dream.html


----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> Could be either: New, Old



I ordered the Old (Black w/Copper Wire) ones.
Didn't even know there was a New model.  Wonder if the difference in drivers is what reduced the price by 33%?


----------



## NLNH

seanc6441 said:


> Why did shozy use poseidon when the new K’s earbud is also poseidon lol.
> 
> Kinda funny markering.
> 
> ...



The English name is not official 
and in fact it refers to the blue cable, there are other items bearing this name before too.... just a random note lol


----------



## chaiyuta

@NLNH : Does it say "Shozy BK Big Black 「大黒」 Limited edition" instead? I arbitrarily translated the title name based on '海神' = 'Poseidon' keyword.


----------



## mochill

If it is a limited stardust then I need it


----------



## golov17




----------



## waynes world

golov17 said:


>



Thanks Oleg! If 2018 is as good to earbuds as 2017 was, then it should be a happy year indeed!


----------



## gazzington

Happy New year all. I'm finishing it listening to my new sony zx300 dap with snow lotus 2. Btw I love these earphones especially as they are so cheap.


----------



## HungryPanda

Happy New Year to you gazzington, glad you are enjoying those buds


----------



## gazzington

They are very impressive for the price and come with a nice tin! Waiting for my 2 penlon earbuds to arrive now.

What's been everyone's favourite buds this year?


----------



## j4100

A Happy New Year to all on this thread for providing so much help in choosing earbuds. I'm almost finished reading most of it (start in May 2016 at page 300-odd). It's been informative and a bit of a laugh at times. Plenty of hype trains running too 

Here's to 2018 bringing us even more!


----------



## antdroid

Happy New Year everyone!

I've been listening to the Penon BS1 Official and the Rose Masya back and forth a bit the past couple days now and here's my quick thoughts:

The BS1 is extremely smooth. Music sounds seamless and silky. It's strong points is the crispness and very good mids and treble. Contrary to what else I've read, I think the Masya's have more impactful subbass. The BS1 sounds overall cleaner and neutral, while the Masya's sound more playful and slightly more v-shaped, while not nearly as clean sounding. The Masya's, to me, have a slightly large soundstage, but both are quite good.

Both have their fit quirks. The Masya's have the unique dual driver which makes for a very large ear bud design that's also weighted much differently than a normal ear bud. Getting the right fit takes patience but I found a couple different pad configurations that really suit me well. The BS1 doesn't ear fit issues, but the wire is very bulky which can be fatiguing and does make it harder to conceal if you want to use it in public.

Overall, I think the BS1s are a solid set of buds, though I think I enjoy the Rose Masya's a little bit more just for the more impactful sound, and fit. The BS1 though is still a very good ear bud and I dont imagine recabling would be very hard if the cable still becomes a nuisance.


----------



## SweetEars

RodRevenge said:


> I don't hear much difference while using the zuperdac sadly, will listen more and see what happens


i am using the new graphenes. they somehow sound differently, better on ipad , than the conexant laptop sound


----------



## groucho69




----------



## waynes world

SweetEars said:


> i am using the new graphenes. they somehow sound differently, better on ipad , than the conexant laptop sound



Fwiw, I was listening to the new graphenes this morning and thinking "Jeez, these sound good. But the old ones sound better I know - I'd better do some comparisons". I got as far as  digging out my belkin splitter so that I could a/b them. But then the day got in the way, and now it's time to go drink some champagne.

Happy New Years!


----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> Fwiw, I was listening to the new graphenes this morning and thinking "Jeez, these sound good. But the old ones sound better I know - I'd better do some comparisons". I got as far as  digging out my belkin splitter so that I could a/b them. But then the day got in the way, and now it's time to go drink some champagne.
> ...



What is the difference between to two models of the NiceHCK DIY Graphene MX760 earbuds, other that the new one being 33% cheaper?


----------



## redkingjoe

Happy New Year to everyone!

I notice a lot of improvements on earbuds these years!

The earbud companies are picking up the hype of the in-ear in terms of quality and price!


----------



## dennisopk

Does Anyone know how to solder a balanced 2.5mm TRRS plug as I want to use it on the Walnut F1 mini amp. Info on the wiring done on the plug side and the driver side.Please help, thanks


----------



## DBaldock9

dennisopk said:


> Does Anyone know how to solder a balanced 2.5mm TRRS plug as I want to use it on the Walnut F1 mini amp. Info on the wiring done on the plug side and the driver side.Please help, thanks



The F1 uses the same 2.5mm TRRS pinout as the A&K DAPs -

Tip = R-
Ring1 = R+
Ring2 = L+
Sleeve = L-

On the earbud drivers, there should be an ink-dot, denoting the + solder pad.


----------



## dennisopk

DBaldock9 said:


> The F1 uses the same 2.5mm TRRS pinout as the A&K DAPs -
> 
> Tip = R-
> Ring1 = R+
> ...


On the earbud side that means normal soldering (-) on the unmarked side and (+ )on the ink dot side, See picture for the plug side. Is this correct? Thanks for the info.


----------



## DBaldock9

dennisopk said:


> On the earbud side that means normal soldering (-) on the unmarked side and (+ )on the ink dot side, See picture for the plug side. Is this correct? Thanks for the info.



That photo is one of the several pinouts for a 3.5mm plug, and *Does Not Match* what I wrote above, for the 2.5mm plug.

If you want to go by the color of ink in the photo:
RED = Tip = Right-
BLUE = Ring1 = Right+
GREEN = Ring2 = Left+
BLACK = Sleeve = Left-


----------



## dennisopk

DBaldock9 said:


> That photo is one of the several pinouts for a 3.5mm plug, and *Does Not Match* what I wrote above, for the 2.5mm plug.
> 
> If you want to go by the color of ink in the photo:
> RED = Tip = Right-
> ...


OK Got it, thanks again.


----------



## dennisopk

dennisopk said:


> OK Got it, thanks again.



Wow, I have done it, the sub bass go deep more layering on the first listen, first done on DIY copper cable attached to the DIY 40mm drivers JVC HA-MX10 bought from Aliex. This first before moving to the earbuds in case I made mistakes. Ordering more balance plugs,SPC cables and recable them. Going balance soon, guys. Thanks a lot, Mr. Baldock for the know how.


----------



## DBaldock9

dennisopk said:


> Wow, I have done it, the sub bass go deep more layering on the first listen, first done on DIY copper cable attached to the DIY 40mm drivers JVC HA-MX10 bought from Aliex. This first before moving to the earbuds in case I made mistakes. Ordering more balance plugs,SPC cables and recable them. Going balance soon, guys. Thanks a lot, Mr. Baldock for the know how.



One thing to consider, if the F1 is distorting or noisy, is to solder some gain-reducing 11K - 12KOhm resistors between pins 1 & 2 and 6 & 7 of the op-amp (not the DRV134 differential drivers).


----------



## dennisopk

DBaldock9 said:


> One thing to consider, if the F1 is distorting or noisy, is to solder some gain-reducing 11K - 12KOhm resistors between pins 1 & 2 and 6 & 7 of the op-amp (not the DRV134 differential drivers).


Thanks again, so far none ,you mean it happened on low ohms buds or even on high ohms buds.


----------



## DBaldock9

It's more likely to be an issue with lower impedance earbuds (especially if they're quite sensitive).
There's a thread, with discussions about the F1 - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/walnut-f1.858439/


----------



## dennisopk

DBaldock9 said:


> It's more likely to be an issue with lower impedance earbuds (especially if they're quite sensitive).
> There's a thread, with discussions about the F1 - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/walnut-f1.858439/


I have the Walnut F1 for 2 months stock unit using either Walnut V2.0 or Zishan V2.0 as source, I bought it to drive high ohms cans, don't have those issues so far. Use it on K's budget K300 and the EB200 which I received last week,they sound good thru it, no issues so far. I have a VE Asura 2.0s 2.5mm balance coming in, I wonder whether the F1 will drive it without the issues. Do you have the Asura?


----------



## kurtextrem

Hopefully this year will be the year of graphene!!! Happy New Year guys!


----------



## snip3r77

wskl said:


> Today I will be giving my impressions on the Monk Lite along with comparisons with the Monk+.  First of all is the gold/black 40 ohm version.
> 
> 
> _*gold/black 40 ohm Monk Lite and darth black Monk+*_
> ...


Would one be better off with the Vido?


----------



## SweetEars

waynes world said:


> Fwiw, I was listening to the new graphenes this morning and thinking "Jeez, these sound good. But the old ones sound better I know - I'd better do some comparisons". I got as far as  digging out my belkin splitter so that I could a/b them. But then the day got in the way, and now it's time to go drink some champagne.
> 
> Happy New Years!



what equipment are u using to listen to them? maybe u are using some high quality stuff... but on "normal"  sound equipment they seem to be rather average. The emx500 or R4Ys seem to work better on everyday normal sound hardware.


----------



## SweetEars

DBaldock9 said:


> What is the difference between to two models of the NiceHCK DIY Graphene MX760 earbuds, other that the new one being 33% cheaper?


i am not sure whats the difference but the new graphenes i have seem to be , if not wrong does not have the same signature as the old ones. maybe there are pros and cons to each.


----------



## wskl

snip3r77 said:


> Would one be better off with the Vido?



Depends on your sound preference, Vido is more bassy than Monk Lite.


----------



## Danneq

Happy new earbud year!

May your wallets survive this year!


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 1, 2018)

I have been sidetracked for several days because of new headphones but I plan to listen much more to my newest bud... the MEMT X6.  I was really enjoying it but am not really prepared to comment further yet.  Also was loving the Snow Lotus , the new graphene and a couple of Edifiers (H185 and H190).  Personally I have  no need to look at/listen to any expensive ones. I am happy with my little collection.  They are all in my profile.


----------



## DBaldock9

dennisopk said:


> I have the Walnut F1 for 2 months stock unit using either Walnut V2.0 or Zishan V2.0 as source, I bought it to drive high ohms cans, don't have those issues so far. Use it on K's budget K300 and the EB200 which I received last week,they sound good thru it, no issues so far. I have a VE Asura 2.0s 2.5mm balance coming in, I wonder whether the F1 will drive it without the issues. Do you have the Asura?



Yes, the VE Asura 2.0 (2.5mm TRRS) has just about the best Midrange of any of my earbuds.  See the link in my sig, for all of my earbuds / earphones.
I have my F1 (w/MUSES02 op-amp) stacked with my Z2 (w/Burson V5i op-amp), and have listened to nearly all of my earbuds, using either the Balanced or Single-Ended outputs.


----------



## chaiyuta

My Penon BS1 Official already surpassed 100 hour burn-in. Recently I let my friend and my brother tried Penon Official 2.5 mm BL plug. Both shared the same opinion on soundstage size. Its soundstage is just out of head but not wide soundstage to be praised likes their own (or ever tried) earphones familiarity. Perhaps both and I are too familiar with something that larger and much more suitable to be called 'spacious' soundstage. I hope my impression (this and my previous comments) shall be useful for those who are interested on this buds more or less. Any reviews could be different cause there are many different factor and preference bias from one to one.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 1, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> My Penon BS1 Official already surpassed 100 hour burn-in. Recently I let my friend and my brother tried Penon Official 2.5 mm BL plug. Both shared the same opinion on soundstage size. Its soundstage is just out of head but not wide soundstage to be praised likes their own (or ever tried) earphones familiarity. Perhaps both and I are too familiar with something that larger and much more suitable to be called 'spacious' soundstage. I hope my impression (this and my previous comments) shall be useful for those who are interested on this buds more or less. Any reviews could be different cause there are many different factor and preference bias from one to one.


Depends completely on the foams used.

Because this earbud has no open back ports it’s the bass ports that provide the opening. So if you use thick heigi foam it acts like a closed sound and tighter seal. I swapped to regular donut foam (a particularly thin regular donut at that) and the stage became a little more spacious and airy. The monk thin foams in donut form which made the soundstage quiet large but personally I stuck with regular donuts with wide front opening for clarity and a small bass impact boost.

But I agree it’s less ‘large grand’ and more 3D and layered but medium in size. The separation is key though, really excellent so music is not congested.


----------



## chaiyuta

@seanc6441 : All tried my BS1 without any sponges.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 1, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> @seanc6441 : All tried my BS1 without any sponges.



Then your experiencing the full soundstage but i don’t know how you live without the slight seal for low end xD.

You do experience the layering I’m talking about though? You can pick out which sounds are closer or far and positionally very accurate with imaging for an earbud.


----------



## chaiyuta (Jan 2, 2018)

@seanc6441 : I respect on your shared impression. We are just share different thought. No need to make sarcastic comments on my thought. All impression we have done is to contribute to this thread. I never stated that this is an awful product. I just share Pros & Cons based on my honest opinion, and I let others tried to ensure it. Furthermore both and I are perfect fitting without sponges need. So even you and I are different ear shape. Something that make you fit doesn't be applicable for all.

P.S. I might misinterpret your aboved comments if you didn't say " i don’t know *how you live* without the slight seal for low end xD." They are various sentence could be used.. likes "For my ears,..", "I got a problem if I do...", etc..


----------



## Fabi

Danneq said:


> Happy new earbud year!
> 
> May your wallets survive this year!


Happy new earbud year, mate!
Oh my dear wallet, I'm afraid this coming year will be worse than last year


----------



## seanc6441

chaiyuta said:


> @seanc6441 : I respect on your shared impression. We are just share different thought. No need to make sarcastic comments on my thought. All impression we have done is to contribute to this thread. I never stated that this is an awful product. I just share Pros & Cons based on my honest opinion, and I let others tried to ensure it.


I think you’re very much misinterpreting what I said but I’m sorry if I caused offence.

I only meant to say that I’m intrigued by your choice to go foamless as I can’t seem to do it myself.

About the layering I was honestly just asking your opinion on the layering and imaging.

Did not mean to come off as sarcastic or cause offence!


----------



## chaiyuta (Jan 1, 2018)

@seanc6441 : In term of fitting, everyone have different ear shape. Don't use your own perspective to judge others. I saw many earbuds review said.. this one is comfort fit that one is easily falling out. Fitting is likes shoe size. We all have our own perfect fit size. My another friend who I recommend him to buy Penon BS1 2.5 mm. informed me later that he could not wear without sponge cause it fall out of his ears. Not only that he still hurt from this shell. Finally he go back to Pk-sized shell earbuds (KineraBuds and Shozy BK 2.5mm.)  While the previous mentioned my friend and my brother including me make perfect fitting without sponges without any hurt our ears.
I glad that you and other following buyers are happy with BS1 based on your honest opinions. Likes my previous impression (comments in this thread), I informed that BS1 has depth layering well.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 1, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> @seanc6441 : In term of fitting, everyone have different ear shape. Don't use your own perspective to judge others. I saw many earbuds review said.. this one is comfort fit that one is easily falling out. Fitting is likes shoe size. We all have our own perfect fit size. My another friend who I recommend him to buy Penon BS1 2.5 mm. informed me later that he could not wear without sponge cause it fall out of his ears. Not only that he still hurt from this shell. While the previous mentioned friend and my brother including me make perfect fitting without sponges without any hurt our ears.
> I glad that you and other following buyers are happy with BS1 based on your honest opinions. Likes my previous impression (comments in this thread), I informed that BS1 has depth layering well.


I apologised out of respect and understanding that you may have misread my comment as I did not mean disrespect but was asking an honest question.

But I don’t appreciate the tone you’re taking as if I insulted you and was inappropriate or rude.

This community is built on different opinions and sometimes it’s difficult to converse when people speak different languages and with different phrases but I said I meant no offence and was sorry so I’d appreciate you if you didn’t react in such a manner as If I’ve done something wrong when I’m only trying to enhance the discussion with questions.


----------



## Saoshyant

Danneq said:


> Happy new earbud year!
> 
> May your wallets survive this year!



Going to hopefully keep my purchases somewhat minimal vs what I've done this last year.  Perhaps I might contact Herry and see about a grand earbud, but I'd have to justify the purchase first.  Otherwise all I have coming is the Raven mk 2.


----------



## mochill

Shozy stardust limited edition around the corner


----------



## seanc6441

mochill said:


> Shozy stardust limited edition around the corner


Damn son... lol

You don’t mess around, give us impressions when it arrives! Do you have the regular BK?


----------



## mochill

I mean they are coming out soon , not that I bought it


----------



## cathee

happy new year guys! 

started the new year with a new DAP and _finally!_ going balanced. can anyone recommend some entry-level and TOTL balanced buds? 

thanks in advance.
x


----------



## DBaldock9

cathee said:


> happy new year guys!
> 
> started the new year with a new DAP and _finally!_ going balanced. can anyone recommend some entry-level and TOTL balanced buds?
> 
> ...



For entry level -
1.) **** PT15 (USD$8, without cable) [ https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...-Earplhone-Earplug-With-MMCX/32752982333.html ]
2.) VE Clan Espresso (USD$20) or SPC (USD$10) - 2.5mm TRRS to MMCX cable [ https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=16 ]

For TOTL, there are many and varied (sound-wise & cost-wise) choices.
I happen to like the earbuds assembled by Wong Kuan Wae (contact him on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/wkuanwae ).
I also like the (USD$108) K's 500 [ https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...dance-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud/32779007786.html ], although there are some newer earbuds, which have recently become available in the same general price range, which other folks here really like.  I haven't heard the newer models.

Happy hunting!


----------



## seanc6441

mochill said:


> I mean they are coming out soon , not that I bought it


oh lol


----------



## HungryPanda

cathee said:


> happy new year guys!
> 
> started the new year with a new DAP and _finally!_ going balanced. can anyone recommend some entry-level and TOTL balanced buds?
> 
> ...


 Firstly Happy New Year to you. I like my Ty Hi-z 32ohm Balanced 2.5mm (entry level)


----------



## seanc6441

cathee said:


> happy new year guys!
> 
> started the new year with a new DAP and _finally!_ going balanced. can anyone recommend some entry-level and TOTL balanced buds?
> 
> ...


Gotta say the BS1 for the price. $99 for two buds if the deal is still going or for one if not. Regardless it’s a great deal.

I’d call it TOTL level at a good price.


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> Happy hunting!



And may this not happen to your wallet!


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> And may this not happen to your wallet!


Not accurate those should be 50’s ^^


----------



## groucho69

seanc6441 said:


> Not accurate those should be 50’s ^^


At a minimum.


----------



## euge

seanc6441 said:


> Gotta say the BS1 for the price. $99 for two buds if the deal is still going or for one if not. Regardless it’s a great deal.
> 
> I’d call it TOTL level at a good price.



I would grab another bs1 official alone for 99$ if they just made it lighter!


----------



## seanc6441

euge said:


> I would grab another bs1 official alone for 99$ if they just made it lighter!


Yeah I think the heavy slider is a design flaw. I'm ok with it now but every now and again it makes the buds slip out of position which is annoying.

I actually looked at it to make sure it wasn't a two piece design because I was tempted to pry it off lol.

Someone should tell penon, maybe I'll email them to give them a heads up because other than that the earbud and cable are brilliant.


----------



## hex182

Can anyone recommend me a cheap/very cheap bass heavy earbud with a lot of bass for an earbud(/open headphone)? I'm thinking similar to HD558, obviously I don't expect much sub bass or any for that matter but the closer it gets the better and I also prefer it to be neutral in rest, if the treble rolls of a bit or spikes a bit it's not a problem but I don't like U shape signatures. I also don't if it has more mid bass than the hd558. If there are more expensive earbuds that fit the bill I would not mid finding out about them even if I may not buy them.


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> What is the difference between to two models of the NiceHCK DIY Graphene MX760 earbuds, other that the new one being 33% cheaper?





SweetEars said:


> i am not sure whats the difference but the new graphenes i have seem to be , if not wrong does not have the same signature as the old ones. maybe there are pros and cons to each.



I just did a bit of a/b'ing out of my laptop (foobar2000) -> zuperdac -> cayin c5, listening to 



Spoiler: Radiohead's Exit Music






 and 



Spoiler: Radiohead's No Surprises








Man, I'm just not any good at describing sound differences! 

Anyway, fwiw:
- they have similar signatures, but then again have some relevant differences
- it's harder to drive the _olds_
- the _olds_ seem to have more air between instruments, resulting in better layering and instrument separation
- the _olds_ have more depth and 3d'ness, whereas the _news_ are more 2d'like
- male vocals on the _news_ are more forward, and the _news_ seem a bit fuller and lush sounding. 
- _olds _seem to have more detailed & layered bass which extends lower, whereas the _news_ have more mid-bass
- although the _news_ don't sound veiled to me, in direct comparison with the _olds_, you might get that impression that they are slighly veiled
- the _news_ can get a bit congested in busier sections such as the 3:15 mark of the exit song, whereas the drivers of the _olds _can handle it better and retain more instrument separation and imaging

Although I give the win to the _olds_, I really do like _news_ as well and I'm happy to have both.


----------



## seanc6441

hex182 said:


> Can anyone recommend me a cheap/very cheap bass heavy earbud with a lot of bass for an earbud(/open headphone)? I'm thinking similar to HD558, obviously I don't expect much sub bass or any for that matter but the closer it gets the better and I also prefer it to be neutral in rest, if the treble rolls of a bit or spikes a bit it's not a problem but I don't like U shape signatures. I also don't if it has more mid bass than the hd558. If there are more expensive earbuds that fit the bill I would not mid finding out about them even if I may not buy them.



Vido $3 (abit uneven but mids and highs are balanced and bass emphasised, cannot remember the tonality but I think neutral or slighly warm)
Emx500 $10 (slighty U shaped and slightly warm but not too warm)
HE150 pro $29 (or so I've heard it has the bass you want and possibly neutral if I remember what I read in a review)


----------



## AxelCloris

We've cleaned up some of the recent posts. Please keep the discussion within the posting guidelines, thanks everyone.


----------



## Ginge

I'm currently having my MX985s re-cabled. Does anyone know a good source for audiophile-grade earbud cables? I am looking for pure copper, or pure silver, and obviously nothing bulky. Any help would be appreciated!


----------



## ctaxxxx

Got the ABnormal Sound Duotres in. Out of the box, these are overkill on the mid-bass. Over does it on most songs for me. I guess they make good basshead buds though.


----------



## chaiyuta (Jan 2, 2018)

Ginge said:


> I'm currently having my MX985s re-cabled. Does anyone know a good source for audiophile-grade earbud cables? I am looking for pure copper, or pure silver, and obviously nothing bulky. Any help would be appreciated!


I recommend 2 brands e.g. DHC and TOXIC. Please choose not over 24awg or O.D. (outer diameter) not more than 1.1 mm since a earbud cable hole at shell has too limited space. By the way, 24awg cables of DHC are currently out of stock. Hope they will re-stock soon.

P.S. the less number of AWG means thicker O.D. size.


----------



## hex182

ctaxxxx said:


> Got the ABnormal Sound Duotres in. Out of the box, these are overkill on the mid-bass. Over does it on most songs for me. I guess they make good basshead buds though.


I might get a pair out of curiosity if I find them cheaper but looking at what I think is the official graph, the treble is way too rolled off so it won't happen now.


----------



## kurtextrem

So my goal for 2018 is, to get my earbuds into a place where they're somewhat ordered instead of being all over the place. What would you guys recommend?
I remember seeing a "case" with many transparent, small drawers but I'm not sure what I should search this thread for. What are those called?


----------



## HungryPanda

plastic compartment box

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_s...0W3PXGLTQY&rh=i:aps,k:plastic+compartment+box


----------



## Saoshyant

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LDH3JC/

It more than adequately fits any earbud I own, but is by no means meant for portability.


----------



## ctaxxxx

hex182 said:


> I might get a pair out of curiosity if I find them cheaper but looking at what I think is the official graph, the treble is way too rolled off so it won't happen now.



I actually didn't have any problems with the treble. I'm use to screeching highs for V-shaped phones. These sounded more neutral than recessed or muffled, but the mids are boosted to hell which can make vocals sound too shouty. It's probably to compensate for the absurd bass volume too. Maybe burn in will change the sound somewhat, but these are not much of a junior Diomnes. The signature is similar, but it's much less balanced. Too many peaks. Maybe I've grown too accustomed to high end phones with a more reference and balanced tuning.


----------



## vladstef

@golov17 , I saw that you like this 14.5mm wool speaker, is it worth getting it compared to other speakers of similar price? It looks kinda similar to that Kinera earbud.

Also, is it worth it compared to other speakers that anyone could extract from 10-20$ buds? I know it's way too general to ask something like this but if it's really good it shouldn't be a hard answer (at least I hope it isn't).


----------



## groucho69

HungryPanda said:


> plastic compartment box
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_15?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=plastic+compartment+box&sprefix=plastic+compart,aps,139&crid=1BX0W3PXGLTQY&rh=i:aps,klastic+compartment+box



What size compartments do you recommend?


----------



## DBaldock9

vladstef said:


> @golov17 , I saw that you like this 14.5mm wool speaker, is it worth getting it compared to other speakers of similar price? It looks kinda similar to that Kinera earbud.
> 
> Also, is it worth it compared to other speakers that anyone could extract from 10-20$ buds? I know it's way too general to ask something like this but if it's really good it shouldn't be a hard answer (at least I hope it isn't).



I've found that most earbud housings don't come with a front cover, because most drivers do come with a cover - but that driver doesn't have a housing front cover. So, an additional piece will need to be found / bought, to use the driver in a PK style housing.


----------



## vladstef

DBaldock9 said:


> I've found that most earbud housings don't come with a front cover, because most drivers do come with a cover - but that driver doesn't have a housing front cover. So, an additional piece will need to be found / bought, to use the driver in a PK style housing.



I would be using it in my DIY Piano Forte build where I've already had issues with front covers, pretty much for 2 life times. This blue plastic is probably enough to hold the membrane and that is all I need.
As a side note, I've tested EMX500, RY4s, Vido, MS16 and RX-1 speakers inside PF shells and when tuned to be as balanced as possible RX-1 has better resolution then the rest and not by a small margin. It really started making sense why RX-1 is rated so highly by @ClieOS . The only issue is that my ears only extract so much out of RX-1 in its original shape.


----------



## HungryPanda

groucho69 said:


> What size compartments do you recommend?


I would suggest 5 cm ones:  https://www.amazon.co.uk/ANSIO-9393...06128&sr=8-5&keywords=plastic+compartment+box


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> plastic compartment box
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_15?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=plastic+compartment+box&sprefix=plastic+compart,aps,139&crid=1BX0W3PXGLTQY&rh=i:aps,klastic+compartment+box



And get way more of them than you think you'll need!


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> I would suggest 5 cm ones:  https://www.amazon.co.uk/ANSIO-9393...06128&sr=8-5&keywords=plastic+compartment+box



With a case that's 5.6cm deep, you'll be able to put at least 4 sets of earbuds in each compartment.

I use some Plano cases that are 4.826cm deep, and easily fit 3 sets per compartment.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B007UTNREK/


----------



## golov17

I'm a fan of Monk lite 120 ohm, who else?


----------



## golov17

vladstef said:


> @golov17 , I saw that you like this 14.5mm wool speaker, is it worth getting it compared to other speakers of similar price? It looks kinda similar to that Kinera earbud.
> 
> Also, is it worth it compared to other speakers that anyone could extract from 10-20$ buds? I know it's way too general to ask something like this but if it's really good it shouldn't be a hard answer (at least I hope it isn't).


Nono,  only link. I'm not tried them yet..


----------



## tim0chan

golov17 said:


> I'm a fan of Monk lite 120 ohm, who else?


im a fan of the 40 ohm one


----------



## wskl

tim0chan said:


> im a fan of the 40 ohm one



Me too, I think I prefer the 40 ohm better for music (just my personal sound preference), the 120 ohm I use for watching TV and movies.  Both are not too bad for $6.


----------



## tim0chan

wskl said:


> Me too, I think I prefer the 40 ohm better for music (just my personal sound preference), the 120 ohm I use for watching TV and movies.  Both are not too bad for $6.


Whats the diff between the 40 ohm and 120 ohm?


----------



## RodRevenge

Update on the graphenes guys, after burning them a little bit and listening with a lot of music genre's i can say that the quality of this buds is really good, acoustics and edm sound pretty good and make them shine, sadly as far as metal/ rock goes they are not that great, i feel graphs can't handle drums well, they (drums) lack body, the natural reverb isn't there, every chop feels like a "tack" instead of a "tum" (lol at my sound effects i know), i'll keep my graphenes because im really enjoying them with some music styles, now  I want to try something with smaller shells guys do some of you know if the diy pk2 has a good drum sound?


----------



## RodRevenge

Btw i recieved my RY4S, they have a faulty driver, that was sad.


----------



## wskl

tim0chan said:


> Whats the diff between the 40 ohm and 120 ohm?



To my ears, the 120 ohm has more bass, less treble and a bit warmer.  I wrote my impressions here if you want to read more.


----------



## JohnVoight

Hi guys,
quick question -
Faaeal Snow-lotus 2.0 or Seahf AWK-F32T??

which one to buy?
Already have EMX500 and Vido. Wanting a change of sound in my new earbud. Which one would complement these two?


----------



## CharlesRievone

JohnVoight said:


> Hi guys,
> quick question -
> Faaeal Snow-lotus 2.0 or Seahf AWK-F32T??
> 
> ...


I've never tried any of the two (SL2 and Seahf f32t), but I've just read an impression on the SL2 that it somehow has a midcentric signature and very narrow soundstage.

As for Seahf 32, most of the people I know who loved it use those buds for rock/metal. I guess this will be redundant since you already have the EMX500.

Maybe also try another earbud with another housing as well?
NiceHCK PK2
DQSM Panda / PK2S
**** Tank


----------



## HungryPanda

Much that I like the DIY PK2 I prefer the DQSM Z&W Panda PK2s


----------



## HungryPanda (Jan 3, 2018)

JohnVoight said:


> Hi guys,
> quick question -
> Faaeal Snow-lotus 2.0 or Seahf AWK-F32T??
> 
> ...



As I own all of these buds the Faaeal Snow Lotus 2.0 would be my suggestion


----------



## HungryPanda

CharlesRievone said:


> I've never tried any of the two (SL2 and Seahf f32t), but I've just read an impression on the SL2 that it somehow has a midcentric signature and very narrow soundstage.
> 
> As for Seahf 32, most of the people I know who loved it use those buds for rock/metal. I guess this will be redundant since you already have the EMX500.
> 
> ...


As you have not heard either of the two earbuds that have been inquired about reading your post could be off putting to someone reading it


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> Much that I like the DIY PK2 I prefer the DQSM Z&W Panda PK2s


I got the DSQM today. I agree, it’s bass is more present and balanced, mid range is equal in quality but with a better tonality and treble is equally as good (these buds have excellent treble imo).

I love the smoother front grille that opens up the sound more allowing more foam choices to sound good imo. Shozy should take notes on this aspect.

This earbud is really well balanced and I don’t really find it U or V shaped probably just very balanced with regular donuts and/or ve monk thins, just slightly different between those two neither better nor worse imo.

The soundstage is still not that large but it doesn’t feel as congested as the pk2 somehow. Very good earbud here.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 3, 2018)

Lacks a little dynamism... Maybe it needs a little burn in but it’s not quite tight enough in the bass or crisp enough in the highs so it doesn’t feel as exciting but sounds good if I can describe it like that. Treble is more even than the diy pk2 but slightly less energetic. Maybe slightly 

That’s probably my only complaint so far because other than that’s its very good for this price.

Hmm changed track and it sounded a better... could just be my ears, lol


----------



## vladstef

@HungryPanda , saw that you have BGVP DX3. How is it?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 3, 2018)

ok quick update between pk2 and dsqm pk2s.

Bass: pk2s has more of it and reaches slightly lower. PK2 is tighter bass less bloomy.

Mids: Pk2s has better tonality in vocals. PK2 has slightly better texture but somewhat dry sounding. Instruments are the same. I prefer the pk2s tonality but missing the texture of the pk2.

High’s: PK2s is pretty smooth in the high’s with good detail. Pk2 is more sparkly and extended highs’s and sound more exciting but never harsh.

The shell is playing a part here. The pk2s shell may be smoother but it’s vents are more centralised and thus the sound is more directed at you rather than around you. This is affecting the soundstage. Pk2s has more balance in frequency response and thus sounds less congested between vocals and instruments but pk2 has a wider soundstage.

These buds are both not perfect but good at certain things. Wish we could have certain aspects of both because it would be a super earbud but sadly that’s not the case. Anyway that’s just my initial comparison of the two.


----------



## RodRevenge

seanc6441 said:


> ok quick update between pk2 and dsqm pk2s.
> 
> Bass: pk2s has more of it and reaches slightly lower. PK2 is tighter bass less bloomy.
> 
> ...



Do you think it would be a good idea to get the pk2s keeping in mind that the graphenes didnt quite make it for my prefered music taste?


----------



## luckyeights

Hmm a limited edition Shozy BK.  We have any links yet?  Is it supposed to be an improvement or just a cable change?


----------



## HungryPanda

vladstef said:


> @HungryPanda , saw that you have BGVP DX3. How is it?


 I'm really enjoying them, very smooth. I have to wear them over ear as they kept falling out if wearing down


----------



## ATi7500

wskl said:


> Today I will be giving my impressions on the Monk Lite along with comparisons with the Monk+.  First of all is the gold/black 40 ohm version.
> 
> 
> _*gold/black 40 ohm Monk Lite and darth black Monk+*_
> ...



Thanks for the review! Would be nice to have a comparison with Qian39, as they share the same shells.


----------



## hex182

JohnVoight said:


> Hi guys,
> quick question -
> Faaeal Snow-lotus 2.0 or Seahf AWK-F32T??
> 
> ...





HungryPanda said:


> As I own all of these buds the Faaeal Snow Lotus 2.0 would be my suggestion


I see all of these are marketed as heavy bass or just bass. How is the Snow Lotus 2.0 different enough to recommend it? Also have you tried the  FAAEAL Narcissus 2.0, is that any better?


----------



## theoutsider (Jan 3, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> I'm really enjoying them, very smooth. I have to wear them over ear as they kept falling out if wearing down


Do you rank them near the best of your earbuds? 

The inner shells seem smaller than MX500, maybe the protruded back shifted the center of gravity and threw the earbud out of balance.


----------



## waynes world (Jan 3, 2018)

RodRevenge said:


> Update on the graphenes guys, after burning them a little bit and listening with a lot of music genre's i can say that the quality of this buds is really good, acoustics and edm sound pretty good and make them shine, sadly as far as metal/ rock goes they are not that great, i feel graphs can't handle drums well, they (drums) lack body, the natural reverb isn't there, every chop feels like a "tack" instead of a "tum" (lol at my sound effects i know), i'll keep my graphenes because im really enjoying them with some music styles, now  I want to try something with smaller shells guys do some of you know if the diy pk2 has a good drum sound?



Nice update. If possible, please suggest some tunes that you find challenging for the graphenes. Or, just some metal band or tunes in general that you like (I've been listening to some Metallica lately, and wouldn't mind trying out some other metal). Thanks!  Edit: I'm a bit familiar with Dream Theatre and Black Sabbath, but that's about it (unless you call Led Zeppelin or King Crimson metal lol).


----------



## HungryPanda

theoutsider said:


> Do you rank them near the best of your earbuds?
> 
> The inner shells seem smaller than MX500, maybe the protruded back shifted the center of gravity and threw the earbud out of balance.


 As I only got them today I will let them burn in for a bit before my final thoughts but at the moment they are as good as my OurArt Ti7's


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 3, 2018)

RodRevenge said:


> Do you think it would be a good idea to get the pk2s keeping in mind that the graphenes didnt quite make it for my prefered music taste?


What did you dislike about the graphene’s?

Edit: Just read your previous post about rock eletronic and drums being an issue. Personally I think the diy pk2 handles drums better than pk2s and graphene because it has tighter controlled bass/mid bass but not much sub bass so it should quicker and a short decay compared to pk2s which has a little more bloom and graphene which is deeper bass but pretty emphasised and not as tight (albeit still of good quality overall).

Pk2 has the best signature for rock no question but i found switching to a full thin foam like the cheap ones (1$ for 100) on aliexpress or ve monk thins (new pack is thicker than before and works well here for seal) helps smooth out the texture and gives the midrange a better tonality (because the detail and sparkle is very present in this earbud.

PK2s is better for pop and generally anything with a bass beat. But initial impressions I don’t get the same texture and detail in the sound (possibly due to tuning and how the back vents are filtered with thicker foam which helps bass but at the cost of air flow) the pk2s definitely has more thump and is smoother but less airy overall and details don’t quite extend like the pk2.

This newer variant of Diy pk2 with the right foams is definitely a great choice for electric guitar, acoustic and drums if that gives you an idea of the sound signature here. I did note that the newer pk2 i received last week was improved over the last one so I can recommend it and the pk2s for different genres.


----------



## gazzington

HungryPanda said:


> As I own all of these buds the Faaeal Snow Lotus 2.0 would be my suggestion


I agree, snow lotus 2.0 is a special bud for the low price.


----------



## Matija Osrečki (Jan 3, 2018)

What are the bassiest earbuds with Yuin PK shell?

And which have the strongest bass in general?
(I know about f150c, and have emx500, that's about it)


----------



## silverfishla

waynes world said:


> Nice update. If possible, please suggest some tunes that you find challenging for the graphenes. Or, just some metal band or tunes in general that you like (I've been listening to some Metallica lately, and wouldn't mind trying out some other metal). Thanks!  Edit: I'm a bit familiar with Dream Theatre and Black Sabbath, but that's about it (unless you call Led Zeppelin or King Crimson metal lol).


If you really want to hear what the Graphenes can do, may I suggest an artist that I've only newly discovered?  He's called.....Rahman, I don't know if you've ever heard of him before.  Haahaha, just kidding.  I'm going to have a bowl of noodles now.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 3, 2018)

Matija Osrečki said:


> What are the bassiest earbuds with Yuin PK shell?
> 
> And which have the strongest bass in general?
> (I know about f150c, and have emx500, that's about it)


Sub bass or mid bass? Cygnus and DSQM PK2 has the most mid bass quantity. Shozy BK has the best overall bass response if you want balanced between sub bass and mid bass it reaches lower than cygnus and dqsm but has less mid bass bump slightly. Still considered slightly bumped mid bass though, cygnus just has more.

DSQM has a nice bass for a pk2 shell but it’s not the tightest compared to shozy bk and maybe slightly less quality than cygnus but not much in it. Cygnus can be abit bloomy too but not too much.

I think most will enjoy the bass of the cygnus the most but in budget range dqsm is good.


----------



## mbwilson111

silverfishla said:


> I'm curious about the H190 because from their description, it's their pro model. I got those for 11.11 on a nice discount today.



Did you ever receive the Edifier H190?  I love mine.  I bought that from Amazon after you made me curious.  Later I also bought the H185 and I enjoy that also.  Both fit well.


----------



## waynes world

silverfishla said:


> If you really want to hear what the Graphenes can do, may I suggest an artist that I've only newly discovered?  He's called.....Rahman, I don't know if you've ever heard of him before.  Haahaha, just kidding.  I'm going to have a bowl of noodles now.





Spoiler: Ha!


----------



## RodRevenge

waynes world said:


> Nice update. If possible, please suggest some tunes that you find challenging for the graphenes. Or, just some metal band or tunes in general that you like (I've been listening to some Metallica lately, and wouldn't mind trying out some other metal). Thanks!  Edit: I'm a bit familiar with Dream Theatre and Black Sabbath, but that's about it (unless you call Led Zeppelin or King Crimson metal lol).


Sure i can do that. 
 , Graphene makes drums in this song too snappy, especially cymbals can get piercing, also chorus (in this and other songs) feels clustered, metal tends to have this wall of sound effect and it gets accentuated by the graphenes nature of making everything sparkly.
 

You can look at those 3 let me know what you think


----------



## waynes world (Jan 3, 2018)

RodRevenge said:


> Sure i can do that.
> , Graphene makes drums in this song too snappy, especially cymbals can get piercing, also chorus (in this and other songs) feels clustered, metal tends to have this wall of sound effect and it gets accentuated by the graphenes nature of making everything sparkly.
> 
> 
> You can look at those 3 let me know what you think




Cool! I'll find them on Tidal, and try them out with various ear buds. Thanks.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 3, 2018)

RodRevenge said:


> Sure i can do that.
> , Graphene makes drums in this song too snappy, especially cymbals can get piercing, also chorus (in this and other songs) feels clustered, metal tends to have this wall of sound effect and it gets accentuated by the graphenes nature of making everything sparkly.
> 
> 
> You can look at those 3 let me know what you think



I have the graphene, pk2s, diy pk2 and Cygnus beside me and I listened to all 3 tracks.

If you want the bass to hit deep the cygnus does all the 3 songs the best by a narrow margin

 graphene  doesn’t play well with the metal btw, it’s veiled effect is ‘the wall’ you speak of imo. It’s like a filter between you and the music. The first sounded good except the drum hits were a little brittle.

PK2 sounded the best for the mix of drum and beat but but misses the deep bass impact but I question the importance of sub bass in this genre of music so it just sounds a small bit less deep. Drum’s sound fantastic though.

DSQM was middling-good on the metal and very good on the first track.

Overall I gotta say assuming you don’t buy the cygnus as it’s not budget range get the diy pk2/dsqm pk2s and grab the 1$ thin foams. Great combo here.

Here’s how I see it. Diy pk2 does treble better and has a tighter drum roll and details are crisp. But lacks bass impact.

PK2s has bass impact but the treble is abit too smooth and not as sparkly, also the dynamics aren’t as quick/tight which doesn’t favour metal as much.


----------



## RodRevenge

seanc6441 said:


> I have the graphene, pk2s, diy pk2 and Cygnus beside me and I listened to all 3 tracks.
> 
> If you want the bass to hit deep the cygnus does all the 3 songs the best by a narrow margin
> 
> ...



Thank you so much bro, i have the budget to get the cygnus but you think the SQ upgrade justifies the price jump?


----------



## RodRevenge

waynes world said:


> Cool! I'll find them on Tidal, and try them out with various ear buds. Thanks.


Great, waiting for your input.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 3, 2018)

RodRevenge said:


> Thank you so much bro, i have the budget to get the cygnus but you think the SQ upgrade justifies the price jump?


That’s a really tough question. I think the cygnus hits that awkward middle ground between good budget and lower premium earbud.

The Cygnus is like an acomplised version of the budget pk buds but do you really wanna spend $75-80 on a slightly better earbud? I jumped from budget to premium and skipped middle ground and i’m glad I did so.

I got my cygnus for €33/$40 so consider that. It’s a great earbud but not 2x as good as pk2/dsqm. Personally I’d stick to those two and choose between better treble and detail or better bass and smoother deeper tonality.

But if you see a cygnus in FS section for under $50 grab it quick. Definitely worth it at that price for acoustic/pop/rock and somewhat nice with metal though no expert at it. Works best with monk thin foams imo. Best tonal balance and fills out the midrange nicely.

What the cygnus does notablely better than the diy pk2/dsqm is layering, imaging and depth. It’s just a little bit more fine tuned.

But detail wise it’s only on par with diy pk2 (which has good detail) and slightly beyond dsqm.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 3, 2018)

I also tried my penon bs1 with the first track. Cygnus does the drums better and bs1 has more detail. Both sound good and pretty neutral but the cygnus has a more bloated mid bass, bs1 sounds more flat response which is not as fun but more analytical.

Seeing as both sound good I have to say Cygnus can still hold it’s own at times but doesn’t have the technicality of bs1 or shozy bk but will most likely sound more musical in some instances if you enjoy mid bass bump and a slightly ‘fun’ but proficient approach.

Most people consider neutral tonality to be analytical and flat but the cygnus definitely defies that whilst remaining more neutral than its warmer big brother the shozy bk stardust.

But I prefer a warmer tonality with most of my music (except in a few instances were neutral sounds better) so the bk has my preferred signature. Shozy bk cannot do metal though! But I don’t listen to metal so there’s that haha


----------



## seanc6441

@RodRevenge I see you’re using a zuperdac with ess sabre chip. If it’s like most sabre chips as was my hifime diy sabre dac and my lg v20 quad sabre dac the sound very clean and detailed but lacks a little weight in the lower mids.

The cygnus works excellently in this case with its bump in that region and through my lg v20 it sounds more weighty than my penon bs1. Really appreciates a clean source to help with its sound sig and I think if you’re device has that same signature  it’ll really shine.


----------



## plumpjack

euge said:


> http://theheadphonelist.com/shozy-bk-stardust-earbud-review/



This was the review that put me over the edge and made me buy the Shozy BK's. No regrets as they are an amazing all-around pair of earbuds and now my most used!


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 3, 2018)

plumpjack said:


> This was the review that put me over the edge and made me buy the Shozy BK's. No regrets as they are an amazing all-around pair of earbuds and now my most used!


I found the original or very similar types of donut foams to be the best for them. Agreed the are phenomenal. They look as good as good as they sound too.

Little picky on source and with foams but if you get it right they are amazing with a magic midrange and textured vocals.


----------



## plumpjack

seanc6441 said:


> I found the original or very similar types of donut foams to be the best for them. Agreed the are phenomenal. They look as good as good as they sound too.
> 
> Little picky on source and with foams but if you get it right they are amazing with a magic midrange and textured vocals.



I just got some HieGi donuts and am going to try these on the various buds I have to see the difference. I just wish Shozy had included a few extra foams in the pack... I'm hesitant to remove them!


----------



## seanc6441

plumpjack said:


> I just got some HieGi donuts and am going to try these on the various buds I have to see the difference. I just wish Shozy had included a few extra foams in the pack... I'm hesitant to remove them!


Heigi's didn't work for me. Bass was awesome, mids were still there, high's smooth as hell and still retained detail.

But the soundstage and airy sound were gone, everything was in your face, even for a forward sounding bud it was just too much, so regular donuts preferably not too thick were the best for me.


----------



## plumpjack

seanc6441 said:


> Heigi's didn't work for me. Bass was awesome, mids were still there, high's smooth as hell and still retained detail.
> 
> But the soundstage and airy sound were gone, everything was in your face, even for a forward sounding bud it was just too much, so regular donuts preferably not too thick were the best for me.



Thank you for the info seanc6441! Any recommendations of better foams then? I don't want to baby the Shozy's but don't have enough knowledge of the subject to has a good backup set of foams other than the Heigis.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 3, 2018)

plumpjack said:


> Thank you for the info seanc6441! Any recommendations of better foams then? I don't want to baby the Shozy's but don't have enough knowledge of the subject to has a good backup set of foams other than the Heigis.


I got a tonne of different foams with many earbuds and many were regular full foams or regular donut foams. Of those I selected a few for my bk's depending on which sounded the best but all were pretty similar in design just slighty differnt foam density. Judge by ear is my best advice as everyone is different. I wish I had more of the original bk donuts to test them but i just use donuts I had from previous buds.

Most thin donuts will work, some sound slighty better than others but idk where to by them specifically sorry. Wish I knew lol!

You can also cut holes in full foams and use them as donuts too, works well for me.


----------



## waynes world (Jan 3, 2018)

Been listening to trance for a few hours, swapping between the snow-lotus 2.0's and the seahf 150c's. The snow-lotus' have more mid-bass thump (plenty-o-bass!). The 150c's also have a lot of bass, but seem to be a bit more refined with a bit more sparkle upstairs. Both are awesome - love'em both!

Edit: listening to this: https://www.friskyradio.com/show/destinations/12-14-2017


----------



## DBaldock9

seanc6441 said:


> I got a tonne of different foams with many earbuds and many were regular full foams or regular donut foams. Of those I selected a few for my bk's depending on which sounded the best but all were pretty similar in design just slighty differnt foam density. Judge by ear is my best advice as everyone is different. I wish I had more of the original bk donuts to test them but i just use donuts I had from previous buds.
> 
> Most thin donuts will work, some sound slighty better than others but idk where to by them specifically sorry. Wish I knew lol!
> 
> You can also cut holes in full foams and use them as donuts too, works well for me.



I found these - not quite as thin as the thin foams that come with Monk+ earbuds, but they aren't too thick, either - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/50P...Cushions-Ear-Buds-For-Mobile/32695762992.html


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> Did you ever receive the Edifier H190?  I love mine.  I bought that from Amazon after you made me curious.  Later I also bought the H185 and I enjoy that also.  Both fit well.



Starting to feel the itch. Maybe the H190's will be the ones?


----------



## paulindss (Jan 3, 2018)

Good night guys. Wanted a quick Help.
I am more of an IEM guy, but sometimes i can apreciatte a good earbud. I have a faaeal 64ohm that is good, but sound lack too much bass too me, but i find them confortable, good to listen, seem natural with a lack of fun and spaciouness. I have a vido that i like more, it hass the bass impact. It seems with more soundstage altought with much less precision, i think ? whatever. Basically i find faaeal cold, and vido funnier. The problem is, the faaeal are gorgeous built, and the vido looks like a trash. My question is, my search for something in the middle, sounding better than vido and with a good cable end up with a safe bet on EMX500 ? I don't wanna much complication. I wanted to know if the Emx is more in the side of fun vido, or cold/precise faaeal/monks. Thx.

Other recommendations are welcome. My powerfull source is a small Fiio E70k.

Soundstage and airyness with bass presence is basically what i look for in a earbud.

Thanx in advance.


----------



## CharlesRievone

HungryPanda said:


> As you have not heard either of the two earbuds that have been inquired about reading your post could be off putting to someone reading it


Only wanted to pass an info I've read/heard, much like a lot of discussions here. No offense meant whatsoever.
I did also state that I've never really tried them as a disclaimer so any reader can take it as it is.

And yes, I like the DQSM Panda PK2S more than the NiceHCK PK2. They're one of my favorite buds with PK shells.


----------



## chaiyuta

Panda looks interesting. Could any owners take a photo of the front plastic cover? It looks glossy black unlikes a typical front cover of PK shell.


----------



## HungryPanda

Here you go


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 4, 2018)

CharlesRievone said:


> Only wanted to pass an info I've read/heard, much like a lot of discussions here. No offense meant whatsoever.
> I did also state that I've never really tried them as a disclaimer so any reader can take it as it is.
> 
> And yes, I like the DQSM Panda PK2S more than the NiceHCK PK2. They're one of my favorite buds with PK shells.


I rate the panda’s over the original diy pk2 but it’s neck to neck with the newer pk2 variant that has had some obvious adjustments to tuning and durability of the cable which is now coated like the graphene’s in clear silicon.

New pk2 extracts more detail but isn’t as smooth as the panda. Better treble but worse bass. Wider soundstage but a little more peaky in high mids which makes the music get a little busy at times for the smaller soundstage to handle.

It’s more like a sidegrade to my ears.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 4, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> Panda looks interesting. Could any owners take a photo of the front plastic cover? It looks glossy black unlikes a typical front cover of PK shell.


It’s vents are bigger and differently spaced than regular pk grille. Sounds more directed at you than wide field of sound.

 

Personally I preferred the spacing of original grille but this one is really nice for comfort as the front is curved and very smooth. Looks great too.


----------



## chinmie

HungryPanda said:


> Here you go



Glad you finally come out with your own signature earbuds


----------



## CharlesRievone

seanc6441 said:


> I rate the panda’s over the original diy pk2 ...
> It’s more like a sidegrade to my ears.


Ah yeah, definitely just a sidegrade between both in terms of SQ. You can't go wrong with getting either of them.

But if you don't like oxidizing cables though, then get the Pandas over the NicePK2.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 4, 2018)

CharlesRievone said:


> Ah yeah, definitely just a sidegrade between both in terms of SQ. You can't go wrong with getting either of them.
> 
> But if you don't like oxidizing cables though, then get the Pandas over the NicePK2.


I wonder if the new pk2 will oxidize it has same cable as graphene's now coated in silicone. Anyone's graphene's oxidizing?


----------



## jant71

A bit off topic but needs to be asked in here. Anyone try the Faaeal Datura?
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...788.html?spm=2114.12010611.0.0.10e53664aRfoSf


----------



## CharlesRievone

seanc6441 said:


> I wonder if the new pk2 will oxidize it has same cable as graphene's now coated in silicone. Anyone's graphene's oxidizing?


Yeah cables on the original/first batch of MX760 Graphenes do oxidize. Doesn't look that obvious, but they do.


----------



## HungryPanda

I made an an error yesterday comparing BGVP DX3 to OurArt Ti7, I actually meant NiceHCK EBX. Neither can touch the OurArt Ti7 (Especially since I fitted the very good balanced cable)


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> I made an an error yesterday comparing BGVP DX3 to OurArt Ti7, I actually meant NiceHCK EBX. Neither can touch the OurArt Ti7 (Especially since I fitted the very good balanced cable)


Ourart TI7 is that good? I read mixed reviews but absolutely love the look of it and the grille design is very cool, like a mini headphone driver. Also the foams look really pourus and thick unlike any ive seem before. Are they different than standard donuts?

What makes them so good if you don’t mind me asking?


----------



## HungryPanda

To me they are my favourite earbuds, superb build quality and sound close to full size headphone than others. My K's 600 does that too though


----------



## vladstef

HungryPanda said:


> To me they are my favourite earbuds, superb build quality and sound close to full size headphone than others. My K's 600 does that too though



You are usually a lot less specific because you do enjoy all kinds of earbuds so when you say that something is clearly your favorite it carries a lot of weight. I've had my eye on OurArt Ti7 for some time now, many people really do enjoy them.


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> To me they are my favourite earbuds, superb build quality and sound close to full size headphone than others. My K's 600 does that too though


Cool I might have to purchase these now lol!

Maybe balanced is doing it? have you tried it with an SE cable like maybe stock cable or something and does it sound close to as good?


----------



## HungryPanda

The stock cable is very nice and I was happy using it but as I have 2 daps with balanced out I just had to do it


----------



## RodRevenge

seanc6441 said:


> It’s vents are bigger and differently spaced than regular pk grille. Sounds more directed at you than wide field of sound.
> 
> 
> 
> Personally I preferred the spacing of original grille but this one is really nice for comfort as the front is curved and very smooth. Looks great too.


Weird but the white one looks bigger, may be just because of the color, also which one is the new pk2? I was planning to order the nicehck with the white cable.


----------



## seanc6441

RodRevenge said:


> Weird but the white one looks bigger, may be just because of the color, also which one is the new pk2? I was planning to order the nicehck with the white cable.


same size it’s just the curved edges and black finish playing tricks on the photo.

That’s my cygnus (white) and pk2s (black). The newer variant of diy pk2 has the same shell as the cygnus/bk and older diy pk2. It’s the standard pk grille. The vents are smaller but more spaced and further from the centre. The field of sound is wider.


----------



## RodRevenge

seanc6441 said:


> @RodRevenge I see you’re using a zuperdac with ess sabre chip. If it’s like most sabre chips as was my hifime diy sabre dac and my lg v20 quad sabre dac the sound very clean and detailed but lacks a little weight in the lower mids.
> 
> The cygnus works excellently in this case with its bump in that region and through my lg v20 it sounds more weighty than my penon bs1. Really appreciates a clean source to help with its sound sig and I think if you’re device has that same signature  it’ll really shine.


Yeah i know what you mean about it lacking weight, how is the lgv20? I was thinking about switching my S7 for it.


----------



## paulindss

paulindss said:


> Good night guys. Wanted a quick Help.
> I am more of an IEM guy, but sometimes i can apreciatte a good earbud. I have a faaeal 64ohm that is good, but sound lack too much bass too me, but i find them confortable, good to listen, seem natural with a lack of fun and spaciouness. I have a vido that i like more, it hass the bass impact. It seems with more soundstage altought with much less precision, i think ? whatever. Basically i find faaeal cold, and vido funnier. The problem is, the faaeal are gorgeous built, and the vido looks like a trash. My question is, my search for something in the middle, sounding better than vido and with a good cable end up with a safe bet on EMX500 ? I don't wanna much complication. I wanted to know if the Emx is more in the side of fun vido, or cold/precise faaeal/monks. Thx.
> 
> Other recommendations are welcome. My powerfull source is a small Fiio E70k.
> ...



Let's try again. Yincrow x6 is a safe bet for what i look for - something similar to vido Or emx500 ? 

Help.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 4, 2018)

RodRevenge said:


> Yeah i know what you mean about it lacking weight, how is the lgv20? I was thinking about switching my S7 for it.


Bit overhyped for earbuds. The main selling point other than the quad dac is that it can drive headphones even up to 600ohm. But for earbuds if stays in low impendance mode  (under 50ohms) and while it’s detailed and very clean sounding it’s a little bright (not the biggest issue) but has the sabre signature as mentioned before. It’s somewhat neutral-cold and lacks a little weight down low.

However if you turn on the snapdragon + EQ (some models have it some don’t, mine is LS997 sprint version) you get a warmer (only slightly north of neutral) fuller sound and if you put +3% to soundstage option it removes the crossfeed LG seemed to have added by default which narrows the soundstage abit. Doing this gives you a detailed, wide soundstage and a warmer relatively full sound.

If I didn’t have this EQ option I would’ve sold the phone ASAP. Maybe the leaner cleaner sound helps with full sized cans when the amp is in high gain but in low gain mode it really does sound too lean without the EQ tricks.

Now to get this thing sim unlocked for Ireland... If I cannot I may sell it or use it as a DAP only but I’m very interested in the meizu pro 5/7 if this doesn’t work out, have heard excellent things about how natural it sounds compared to the V20 which is considered a little bright and artificial but with great detail.

FYI the lg v10 is supposed to be warmer and more natural but with slightly less articulation in the treble but as a phone the v20 seems better.

V30 I don’t know much about but the price is pretty steep and LG’s prices drop significantly after awhile for each phone.


----------



## seanc6441

If you root it or use certain adapters you can trick it into high impendance mode but the issue is it may or may not be damaging to your earbuds idk.

Also if you make the mistake of leaving the volume up too high when you switch to high gain you can blow your ears off... this thing has god levels of power and I found that out pretty fast...

It can power hard to drive headphones better than most DAPS.


----------



## gazzington

I’ve just bought a Sony zx300 which has a balanced 4.4 output which I’d love to try. Do any of you know of any descent earbuds I can buy with that option?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 4, 2018)

gazzington said:


> I’ve just bought a Sony zx300 which has a balanced 4.4 output which I’d love to try. Do any of you know of any descent earbuds I can buy with that option?


Maybe the ourart ti7 as Panda seems to enjoy! Assuming you choose the balanced cable option for it!

@HungryPanda It’s no wonder you liken them to headphones with this grille design




Very unique design for an earbud.


----------



## gazzington

Thanks I’ll take a look at that. I also noticed ve zen2 come with a balanced option. I have monks but never tried the zen, anybody know what it’s like?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 4, 2018)

gazzington said:


> Thanks I’ll take a look at that. I also noticed ve zen2 come with a balanced option. I have monks but never tried the zen, anybody know what it’s like?


Apparently very warm full lush and rolled off highs.

If you have a a high budget I’d suggest you try Shozy BK balanced. Clios rated it in top 3 of earbuds he’s tried and if balanced from your dap performs better the regular it’ll be incredible performance


----------



## j4100 (Jan 4, 2018)

gazzington said:


> I’ve just bought a Sony zx300 which has a balanced 4.4 output which I’d love to try. Do any of you know of any descent earbuds I can buy with that option?



Not many off the shelf 4.4mm balanced options at the moment, though I notice that most of the diy guys will offer 4.4mm plugs. mmcx buds like the Ti7 Sean mentioned mean that you can get a cable terminated to suit.

Edit: I guess you can get adaptors.

In other news, my K's 600 turned up. I ordered them a couple of weeks after two other orders which have yet to appear. At least I have patience, eh?


----------



## seanc6441

j4100 said:


> Not many off the shelf 4.4mm balanced options at the moment, though I notice that most of the diy guys will offer 4.4mm plugs. mmcx buds like the Ti7 Sean mentioned mean that you can get a cable terminated to suit.
> 
> Edit: I guess you can get adaptors.
> 
> In other news, my K's 600 turned up. I ordered them a couple of weeks after two other orders which have yet to appear. At least I have patience, eh?


Oh it’s 4.4 sorry I think the shozy is 2.5mm balanced. You can use an adapter correct?


----------



## HungryPanda

most my balanced gear is 2.5mm except the Trinity stuff that is 3.5mm


----------



## j4100

Just checked, there are loads of 2.5mm female to 4.4mm male adaptors out there.

The different balanced connector sizes reminds me of the VHS/Betamax/V2000 video cassette pain from the 80s. The VHS won out. I hope the 4.4mm wins out, as the 2.5mm is too small and reading on here, a pain to solder a new one to diy cable. The 3.5mm is already the SE standard. That Sony are using 4.4mm means that's where I will place my bet for the future. Any takers?


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> To me they are my favourite earbuds, superb build quality and sound close to full size headphone than others. My K's 600 does that too though



These the ones? The price is not exorbitant either


----------



## HungryPanda

that is them my friend


----------



## rkw

gazzington said:


> I’ve just bought a Sony zx300 which has a balanced 4.4 output which I’d love to try. Do any of you know of any descent earbuds I can buy with that option?


The most flexible option is to get a 2.5mm balanced TRRS female to 4.4mm male adapter. Then you can use any earbud with 2.5mm balanced TRRS cable, which are widely available.

Alternatively get an MMCX to 4.4mm cable, and you will be able to use earbuds with MMCX connectors (however these are not as common).


----------



## HungryPanda

Gratuitous pic:


----------



## Narayan23

paulindss said:


> Let's try again. Yincrow x6 is a safe bet for what i look for - something similar to vido Or emx500 ?
> 
> Help.



Hey Paul, I cannot help since I have no experience with the buds you´re asking about, there´s a "search this thread" function at the top right of the page where you can look for posts regarding the buds that interest you. There´s also an earbud survey with ratings if you want to have a look:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...2RK-1_XnAo/pubhtml?gid=1362510242&single=true


----------



## Majin

How does the Svara L compare to the Rose Masya? I am looking for an earbud with a detachable cable for around 100 euro, less is always welcome.


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Starting to feel the itch. Maybe the H190's will be the ones?



I think you already know the answer.  "The One"....sure...until the next One.


----------



## HungryPanda (Jan 4, 2018)

Majin said:


> How does the Svara L compare to the Rose Masya? I am looking for an earbud with a detachable cable for around 100 euro, less is always welcome.



Depending on the music you listen to, the Svara L has a more bass oriented sound than the more neutral Rose Masya. Both are excellent earbuds. I prefer rock and electronic music with the Svara L and classical and acoustic type music with the Rose Masya. Also the OurArt Ti7 has detachable cable and I highly recommend them (prefer over the Svara L)


----------



## noknok23

gazzington said:


> I’ve just bought a Sony zx300 which has a balanced 4.4 output which I’d love to try. Do any of you know of any descent earbuds I can buy with that option?


You should check out wong kuan wae "Blur sony fanboy" earbuds. It's DIY, 4.4mm and specifically tuned for Sony dap/dac. I think you can contact him on the Facebook group earbuds anonymous.


I do believe 4.4mm is superior. 2.5 is too small and prone for failure/break in a "portable" context.


----------



## DBaldock9

Majin said:


> How does the Svara L compare to the Rose Masya? I am looking for an earbud with a detachable cable for around 100 euro, less is always welcome.





HungryPanda said:


> Depending on the music you listen to, the Svara L has a more bass oriented sound than the more neutral Rose Masya. Both are excellent earbuds. I prefer rock and electronic music with the Svara L and classical and acoustic type music with the Rose Masya. Also the OurArt Ti7 has detachable cable and I highly recommend them (prefer over the Svara L)



@HungryPanda - Have you heard both the 115Ω & 32Ω versions of the Svara L?  How much difference in Bass response is there?

Also, have you heard the MusicMaker ToneKing TO200 (200Ω) earbuds?
To me, they sound good, and they're a bit lighter & more comfortable to wear than the OurArt Ti7.  My MMCX cable is also easier to remove from the TO200.


----------



## DBaldock9

noknok23 said:


> You should check out wong kuan wae "Blur sony fanboy" earbuds. It's DIY, 4.4mm and specifically tuned for Sony dap/dac. I think you can contact him on the Facebook group earbuds anonymous.
> 
> 
> I do believe 4.4mm is superior. 2.5 is too small and prone for failure/break in a "portable" context.




He's at - https://www.facebook.com/wkuanwae


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> I think you already know the answer.  "The One"....sure...until the next One.



I never said "The One". That's fake news lol!



DBaldock9 said:


> @HungryPanda - Have you heard both the 115Ω & 32Ω versions of the Svara L?  How much difference in Bass response is there?
> 
> Also, have you heard the MusicMaker ToneKing TO200 (200Ω) earbuds?
> To me, they sound good, and they're a bit lighter & more comfortable to wear than the OurArt Ti7.  My MMCX cable is also easier to remove from the TO200.



Yeah @HungryPanda, now that you seem to be successfully getting me sold on $50-$60 earbuds, inquiring minds must know!


----------



## mbwilson111

I am waiting to hear more about the Monk Lites... both versions.  I don't need any expensive buds.


----------



## HungryPanda

I only have the newer Svara L @ 32ohms, never heard the other


----------



## HungryPanda

Enjoying the heck listening to Madrugada with these BGVP DX3's right now:


----------



## ShabtabQ

What to buy if budget is around 30 USD? Had monk plus and liked them. Looking for an upgrade.


----------



## silverfishla

HungryPanda said:


> Enjoying the heck listening to Madrugada with these BGVP DX3's right now:



How do these sound?  Are they nicely made like in the pictures?  It's a graphene bud, how do they compare to the old DIY graphene buds?  Is the cable that's provided good, since they kind of hype it up in the promotionals.


----------



## HungryPanda

silverfishla said:


> How do these sound?  Are they nicely made like in the pictures?  It's a graphene bud, how do they compare to the old DIY graphene buds?  Is the cable that's provided good, since they kind of hype it up in the promotionals.


 The cable is very nice as are the earbuds, I am wearing them over ear as they stay in place that way. I do that with the NiceHCK EBX and Svara L's anyway


----------



## tim0chan

ShabtabQ said:


> What to buy if budget is around 30 USD? Had monk plus and liked them. Looking for an upgrade.


monk lite 120 ohm spc


----------



## ShabtabQ

tim0chan said:


> monk lite 120 ohm spc


Sir I want to buy something better and I'm willing so spend like 30 USD so is it that monk lite sounds better than anything I can get for 30 bucks? Heard about Diy graphene too but I'm not following the earbud community so have no idea which would be a good buy. Thanks.


----------



## RodRevenge

ShabtabQ said:


> Sir I want to buy something better and I'm willing so spend like 30 USD so is it that monk lite sounds better than anything I can get for 30 bucks? Heard about Diy graphene too but I'm not following the earbud community so have no idea which would be a good buy. Thanks.


Graphenes are really loved around here, it depends on your music taste, what are you listening with them?


----------



## chaiyuta (Jan 4, 2018)

@seanc6441 : I'm not sure that before you bought smartphone, you looked up to this thread whether or not. This thread might help you make a decision for buying next time. I ever tried LG V30+, LeMax, Vivo Xplay6. I find that XPlay6 is the most warm and the best source among three for my ears.

I heard that to trigger HIgh impedance mode for LG smartphone (Not 100%sure). You could plug jack in a half way to trigger this mode, or use 3.5-3.5 mm. ohm adapter plug first to cheat phone that it get infinity ohm. somekind like that.


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> I only have the newer Svara L @ 32ohms, never heard the other



Well, the 115Ω model has *a lot* of Bass, more & better than my TY Hi-Z HP650 (which was my Bassiest Earbud), and more than some of my IEMs.
Since there's so much Bass, the Midrange & Treble do seem a bit recessed, but that's probably exaggerated by my using a solid foam over a donut foam (need to experiment with the foams).


----------



## DBaldock9

ShabtabQ said:


> What to buy if budget is around 30 USD? Had monk plus and liked them. Looking for an upgrade.



I can recommend an Earbud that's $17 - $18 (if you want a Mic), and sounds really good - 
MusicMaker ToneKing TP16 (32Ω) - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...I-Bass-Headset-Free-Shipping/32712947640.html


----------



## dennisopk

DBaldock9 said:


> Well, the 115Ω model has *a lot* of Bass, more & better than my TY Hi-Z HP650 (which was my Bassiest Earbud), and more than some of my IEMs.
> Since there's so much Bass, the Midrange & Treble do seem a bit recessed, but that's probably exaggerated by my using a solid foam over a donut foam (need to experiment with the foams).


Is there a link for it, as I can't find them, i can see only 32Ω ones.


----------



## dennisopk

I bought a VE Asura 2.0 and when arrived I received a free male 3.5mm TRS to female 2.5mm TRRS adapter , when there are movement on the adapter the sound drop off. I use it on the Asura. Is this common? or did I received a faulty one.


----------



## DBaldock9

dennisopk said:


> I bought a VE Asura 2.0 and when arrived I received a free male 3.5mm TRS to female 2.5mm TRRS adapter , when there are movement on the adapter the sound drop off. I use it on the Asura. Is this common? or did I received a faulty one.



Unfortunately, it's common.  The quality of the 2.5mm TRRS Female Jack isn't all that great on the VE cables.  I have several of the VE adapter cables, and one is a little bit better than the other, but both of them are fairly sensitive to lateral movement.

If you've seen the "velcro" bands, with the Penon Logo, that they ship with products -







- you might be able to wrap something like that around the connection, to stabilize it.  

The real fix is to assemble an adapter cable, using an Eidolic 2.5mm TRRS Female Jack, since it grips the plug securely.
https://doublehelixcables.com/product/eidolic-2-5mm-4-pole-female-jack-for-astell-kern/


----------



## acap13

dennisopk said:


> I bought a VE Asura 2.0 and when arrived I received a free male 3.5mm TRS to female 2.5mm TRRS adapter , when there are movement on the adapter the sound drop off. I use it on the Asura. Is this common? or did I received a faulty one.



I have no experience with Asura, but I am curious what is the original/default plug on the Asura? I'm asking because of worriness of the TRS to TRRS adapter. Anyway, I'm not sure though if my question has anything to do with your issue with the adapter.


----------



## dennisopk

acap13 said:


> I have no experience with Asura, but I am curious what is the original/default plug on the Asura? I'm asking because of worriness of the TRS to TRRS adapter. Anyway, I'm not sure though if my question has anything to do with your issue with the adapter.


The Asura comes either with the 3.5mm or the 2.5 TRRS balance jack. When you buy it there is an option for you to choose. The adapter is given FOC with the purchase. If you buy the balance 2.5mm jack you can use this adapter to plug into any DAP/amp 3.5mm socket. see picture for the adapter.


----------



## DBaldock9

acap13 said:


> I have no experience with Asura, but I am curious what is the original/default plug on the Asura? I'm asking because of worriness of the TRS to TRRS adapter. Anyway, I'm not sure though if my question has anything to do with your issue with the adapter.



Pretty much all of the VE earbuds are available with either a 3.5mm TRS, or a 2.5mm TRRS plug.
Like @dennisopk I also ordered the Balanced version of the Asura 2.0, and received the 3.5mm TRS -to- 2.5mm TRRS adapter cable (also received one with a Monk+ 2.5mm TRRS model).


----------



## acap13

@dennisopk @DBaldock9 
Thanks so much for clarifications. That clears the worriness then. I can say it is really a great decision for VE to go with 3.5mm TRRS instead and provide 2.5mm TRRS adapater for FOC. 2.5mm would be risky route to go as default due to it is more likely to get damaged for prolong usage than 3.5mm. Easy replacement is always a peace of mind and convenient for vast number of users.


----------



## golov17

ShabtabQ said:


> What to buy if budget is around 30 USD? Had monk plus and liked them. Looking for an upgrade.


http://www.rholupat.com/willsound-mk2-32ohm.html?keyword=Willsound


----------



## cocolinho

Any more news about the K's white bell ? tempted to pull the trigger


----------



## DBaldock9

dennisopk said:


> Is there a link for it, as I can't find them, i can see only 32Ω ones.



Their first production run used the 115Ω driver, but I think they may have had issues with the supply (either quality or quantity), and switched to the 32Ω driver.
So, I guess the only way to get a 115Ω model, is to buy one used, or possibly find a shop with "_new old stock_".


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 5, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> @seanc6441 : I'm not sure that before you bought smartphone, you looked up to this thread whether or not. This thread might help you make a decision for buying next time. I ever tried LG V30+, LeMax, Vivo Xplay6. I find that XPlay6 is the most warm and the best source among three for my ears.
> 
> I heard that to trigger HIgh impedance mode for LG smartphone (Not 100%sure). You could plug jack in a half way to trigger this mode, or use 3.5-3.5 mm. ohm adapter plug first to cheat phone that it get infinity ohm. somekind like that.



I didn’t see that particular thread until after I purchased the phone but I read about LG V20 in other reviews  and heard raving reviews about its SQ. It’s really good but better for headphones and in high impendance mode which I can trigger with adapter as you say but it’s a little awkward I have to carry 2 adapters + earbuds to use high impendance :/

But it’s still a nice phone just not a major upgrade over iphone 6s unless you use high impendance I think. I will buy the adapters and see how I feel about it overall.

These phones are easy to sell anyway because of how good they perform with headphones and it’s a cool phone too. Huge screen compared to my 6s!

Meizu Pro 5/7 was interesting me so that is an option if I sell this. The thread you mentioned said it has a warmer more natural sound and wider soundstage but slightly less detail maybe. Personally I think the V20 is detailed because it’s so lean and cold sounding you can hear everything clearly. But high impendance mode is supposed to sound slightly warmer and slightly better treble detail.

Some say low impendance only uses 1 of 4 parts of the DAC and that’s why you need to trigger High gain/high impendance mode for the best SQ. But others say that it only increases power as low as you turn on hifi mode it doesn’t matter if its high or low impendance... LG has never been clear about this although they do say low impendance is for power saving too...


----------



## waynes world

RodRevenge said:


> Yeah i know what you mean about it lacking weight, how is the lgv20? I was thinking about switching my S7 for it.



You should consider something like this (for $79):
*EarStudio: World's first studio-quality Bluetooth receiver*
https://www.ear-studio.com/
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/radsone-earstudio.867366/

I like the sound of this:


> Built-in Dual DAC
> - Integrated dual AK4375a DAC
> - Single-ended / Double Current output with 3.5mm connector
> - Full Balanced / Double Voltage output with 2.5mm connector
> ...



Reviews are only starting to come out, but it might be quite good for a great price. And it would get rid of your phone woes.


----------



## groucho69

golov17 said:


> http://www.rholupat.com/willsound-mk2-32ohm.html?keyword=Willsound



MK1 or MK2?


----------



## golov17 (Jan 5, 2018)

groucho69 said:


> MK1 or MK2?


mk2 (mini Zen1), but i prefer dark sig mk1


----------



## Saoshyant

DBaldock9 said:


> Their first production run used the 115Ω driver, but I think they may have had issues with the supply (either quality or quantity), and switched to the 32Ω driver.
> So, I guess the only way to get a 115Ω model, is to buy one used, or possibly find a shop with "_new old stock_".



The initial explanation for the change I was given had to do with going with a more easily driven ohm due to many people using phones as their dap.  I think I'll pick up the 32ohm version eventually just to see the changes personally as I love the build.


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> You should consider something like this (for $79):
> *EarStudio: World's first studio-quality Bluetooth receiver*
> https://www.ear-studio.com/
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/radsone-earstudio.867366/
> ...




 

I'm loving it so much that i sold my Cayin N3 after i bought it


----------



## chinmie

groucho69 said:


> MK1 or MK2?



MK2 if you like more treble extension, MK1 for warmer sound. I myself prefer the MK2


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> I'm loving it so much that i sold my Cayin N3 after i bought it



There you go! Are you mainly using it in USB mode (as per the picture), or in Bluetooth mode? (I'd be mainly using it in bluetooth mode, like my Fiio BTR1).


----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> You should consider something like this (for $79):
> *EarStudio: World's first studio-quality Bluetooth receiver*
> https://www.ear-studio.com/
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/radsone-earstudio.867366/
> ...



Where did you purchase your EarStudio?  I don't see any "*Buy Now*" type of button on their website.


----------



## waynes world (Jan 5, 2018)

DBaldock9 said:


> Where did you purchase your EarStudio?  I don't see any "*Buy Now*" type of button on their website.



It is being shipped out to the Indigogo and Kickstarter backers now, and not yet for sale to the general public. I'm not 100% sure when it will be for sale (maybe someone on the headfi thread could answer). Btw, I don't have one.


----------



## luckyeights

I dont want to derail this thread at all but i asked in the headphone amp section and got one person suggesting the hugo 2 which was out in left field as to what I as looking for so i figured id ask my earbud family.   

I am looking to upgrade my amp and or dac. I am looking at either the Jotunheim, the Fostex HP-A4BL, an audio gd NFB-28, Aune s6, or maybe wait for the Monoprice Monolith dac amp (looks really impressive at least on paper). Or maybe something else if you have any suggestions?
I am looking for something with a balanced headphone out as i would like to give it a try also has to have SE out too. I think I would prefer a dac amp combo but separate is not out of the question just depends on cost I would like to stay under 1k preferably closer to 500 to 800 dollar range but can splurge a little more if its worth it. 

Right now i have a magni 2 uber with a modi multibit.

Thanks for your help.


----------



## HungryPanda

Fostex HPA-4BL use it at my desk and love it


----------



## silverfishla

I just ordered Faael Narcissus 300ohm bud.  Anyone have this one and can tell me their impressions?  Thought I’d get one high ohm bud to run with my Millett Nutube amp.   This one looked nice and was on that “best of” 2017 earbud list thingy.


----------



## DBaldock9

luckyeights said:


> I dont want to derail this thread at all but i asked in the headphone amp section and got one person suggesting the hugo 2 which was out in left field as to what I as looking for so i figured id ask my earbud family.
> 
> I am looking to upgrade my amp and or dac. I am looking at either the Jotunheim, the Fostex HP-A4BL, an audio gd NFB-28, Aune s6, or maybe wait for the Monoprice Monolith dac amp (looks really impressive at least on paper). Or maybe something else if you have any suggestions?
> I am looking for something with a balanced headphone out as i would like to give it a try also has to have SE out too. I think I would prefer a dac amp combo but separate is not out of the question just depends on cost I would like to stay under 1k preferably closer to 500 to 800 dollar range but can splurge a little more if its worth it.
> ...



I know that @xrk971  has hinted at building a nice desktop headphone amp, with Balanced Inputs, and Balanced & Single-Ended Outputs.
It will be the big-brother to the Pocket Class A Amp (Single-Ended) that's currently available.


----------



## waynes world

Ok, suddenly there are too many choices:

Edifier H190 $17
Ourart TI7 $50
Penon Officials $100 (a bit out of my comfort-zone pricewise)
ToneKing TO200 $58
ToneKing TP16 $17
Willsound MK2 32Ohm $30

Hmmm!


----------



## HungryPanda

What a dilemma, of all these the OurArt would be the one I would pick up


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Ok, suddenly there are too many choices:
> 
> Edifier H190 $17
> Ourart TI7 $50
> ...



Of those I  have only used the Edifier H190.  I think you would like them.  Any time I put them in my ears they seem to stay there for hours. They are very comfortable and sound great to me.   Are you able to get them quickly from Amazon Canada?  I have to admit. .. I love the instant gratification that I get from Amazon...sometimes.


----------



## groucho69

waynes world said:


> Ok, suddenly there are too many choices:
> 
> Edifier H190 $17
> Ourart TI7 $50
> ...



What is this concept: too many?


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> Of those I  have only used the Edifier H190.  I think you would like them.  Any time I put them in my ears they seem to stay there for hours. They are very comfortable and sound great to me.   Are you able to get them quickly from Amazon Canada?  I have to admit. .. I love the instant gratification that I get from Amazon...sometimes.



I will take mine with my Bejie S5 on vaca to Mexico. Yes fast from Amazon but also check the Edifier website. Sometimes they have a better price.


----------



## waynes world

groucho69 said:


> What is this concept: too many?



It's directly linked to "too little" - as in "too little money in my wallet"


----------



## groucho69

waynes world said:


> It's directly linked to "too little" - as in "too little money in my wallet"



Ah light wallet syndrome. There is a cure....stop buying.


----------



## rahmish

waynes world said:


> Ok, suddenly there are too many choices:
> 
> Edifier H190 $17
> Ourart TI7 $50
> ...


Go for Willsound!


----------



## waynes world

groucho69 said:


> Ah light wallet syndrome. *There is a cure....stop buying.*



Who _ARE_ you???


----------



## groucho69

waynes world said:


> Who _ARE_ you???



I have been known to occasionally talk utter nonsense. Actually repeatedly...mostly...OK ALWAYS!


----------



## jant71 (Jan 5, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> Enjoying the heck listening to Madrugada with these BGVP DX3's right now:






HungryPanda said:


> The cable is very nice as are the earbuds, I am wearing them over ear as they stay in place that way. I do that with the NiceHCK EBX and Svara L's anyway



Okay, enough! Get to it. What do they actually sound like and what foams are you using(describe the thickness level if they are stock)


----------



## HungryPanda (Jan 5, 2018)

Ok jant71, I am using the donut foams they came with. They sound very  good in the mids, female and male voices sound thick and lush, there is a good bass more mid than sub, treble is smooth ,no harshness anywhere. They sound great with both rock and acoustic oriented music. On testing they kick in at 20 hz


----------



## groucho69

@HungryPanda  Moondrop VX Pro or OurArt ti7?


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> Ok jant71, I am using the donut foams they came with. They sound very  good in the mids, female and male voices sound thick and lush, there is a good bass more mid than sub, treble is smooth ,no harshness anywhere. They sound great with both rock and acoustic oriented music. On testing they kick in at 20 hz



I don't know which bud people are talking about half the time..


----------



## HungryPanda

Never heard vx pro


----------



## seanc6441

groucho69 said:


> @HungryPanda  Moondrop VX Pro or OurArt ti7?


BGVP DX3 if you’re asking to which earbud he was referring too.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have the BGVP DX3's in my ears right now


----------



## mbwilson111

oh  now you all have me completely confused.  I think I just want to try a Monk Lite now... should I order directly from VE?


----------



## HungryPanda

mbwilson111 said:


> oh  now you all have me completely confused.  I think I just want to try a Monk Lite now... should I order directly from VE?


why not?


----------



## groucho69

seanc6441 said:


> BGVP DX3 if you’re asking to which earbud he was referring too.



Not what I was asking. Please choose.


----------



## groucho69

HungryPanda said:


> Never heard vx pro



I'm leaning to OurArt ti7 unless someone can compare to Moondrop VX Pro.


----------



## seanc6441

groucho69 said:


> I'm leaning to OurArt ti7 unless someone can compare to Moondrop VX Pro.


@groucho69 I think the VX Pro was recommended here by clieOS as suitable for classical if that helps.


----------



## groucho69

seanc6441 said:


> @groucho69 I think the VX Pro was recommended here by clieOS as suitable for classical if that helps.



So OurArt ti7 is more of all rounder?


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> There you go! Are you mainly using it in USB mode (as per the picture), or in Bluetooth mode? (I'd be mainly using it in bluetooth mode, like my Fiio BTR1).



I mostly using it bluetooth. There's a slight increase in SQ in USB mode but only noticeable with critical listening, and it consume more battery in USB mode even on standby.  Besides, the benefit of bluetooth is freedom of roaming, and the bluetooth sounds great anyway


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> why not?



VE wants $3.50  shipping on a $6 item.  If I could have gotten both the 40 ohm and the 120 ohm for that same shipping I would do it but they do not have the 120ohm right now as a standard option... only the more expensive SPC version.  Maybe I will just wait until Amazon has them.


----------



## Saoshyant

mbwilson111 said:


> VE wants $3.50  shipping on a $6 item.  If I could have gotten both the 40 ohm and the 120 ohm for that same shipping I would do it but they do not have the 120ohm right now as a standard option... only the more expensive SPC version.  Maybe I will just wait until Amazon has them.



My belief on this particular subject is I'd rather buy directly from VE and support a rather awesome person than a reseller.  He will take care of you if you're polite and reasonable.


----------



## HungryPanda

The moondrop nameless costs less so I say buy that


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Ok, suddenly there are too many choices:
> 
> Edifier H190 $17
> Ourart TI7 $50
> ...



Quoting my son's hero: "gotta catch'em all"


----------



## mbwilson111

Saoshyant said:


> My belief on this particular subject is I'd rather buy directly from VE and support a rather awesome person than a reseller.  He will take care of you if you're polite and reasonable.



I don't know anything about VE. Is there a certain thread I should go to?


----------



## groucho69 (Jan 5, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> VE wants $3.50  shipping on a $6 item.  If I could have gotten both the 40 ohm and the 120 ohm for that same shipping I would do it but they do not have the 120ohm right now as a standard option... only the more expensive SPC version.  Maybe I will just wait until Amazon has them.



You'd be OK with $9.50 and free shipping? They will not likely be on Amazon. You can trust him.


----------



## mbwilson111

groucho69 said:


> You'd be OK with $9.50 and free shipping?



I was hoping that if I could get both earbuds together that the shipping would still be $3.50.  I don't know why the 120ohm is not available right now except for the more expensive edition.  I will wait.


----------



## Saoshyant (Jan 5, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I don't know anything about VE. Is there a certain thread I should go to?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ven...earbud-that-taking-the-world-by-storm.783669/

I personally feel VE is a big part of the reason budget earbuds have become so promising.  Everything that's happened since has been others trying to surpass the bar Lee has set, IMO.


----------



## chinmie

groucho69 said:


> @HungryPanda  Moondrop VX Pro or OurArt ti7?



I had the vx pro. It sounded good, but had problems with fitting (good sound with one foam but too loose, good fit with two foams but sounded weird), and also rather dry sounding and have an annoying freq bump that bothered me. But there are a lot of people in my local forum that like it though. Haven't tried the ourart yet. Definitely going to buy them on the near future


----------



## lyrean (Jan 5, 2018)

paulindss said:


> Let's try again. Yincrow x6 is a safe bet for what i look for - something similar to vido Or emx500 ?
> 
> Help.



Yincrow X6 sounds almost identical to Vido but it has better build quality. You can't go wrong with it.

RY4S is also a good alternative to EMX500. Both of these are brighter sounding than Vido/Yincrow X6.


----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> Ok, suddenly there are too many choices:
> 
> Edifier H190 $17
> Ourart TI7 $50
> ...



I've got the OurArt Ti7, ToneKing TO200, and ToneKing TP16.

Without rewiring, the TP16 is Single-Ended(3.5mm TRS).  It sounds good, and is very efficient, so it's loud when driven by lower powered sources, like phones.

I'm currently swapping back and forth between the Ti7 and the TO200, connected to the Balanced output of my DP-X1B DAP, listening to Google Play Music.
Both earbuds have a Full Foam over a Donut Foam.
Even though the TO200 is a 200Ω earbud, it doesn't appear to be harder to drive, and it does seem to have a _warmer_ sound.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 5, 2018)

Anyone try this sellers buds?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/YMH...eadphones-For-Samsung-iPhone/32656179214.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...amsung-iPhone-xiaomi/1396671_32846757072.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...arphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds-DJ/32830224709.html


----------



## mochill

Pokemon


----------



## waynes world

Saoshyant said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ven...earbud-that-taking-the-world-by-storm.783669/
> 
> I personally feel VE is a big part of the reason budget earbuds have become so promising.  Everything that's happened since has been others trying to surpass the bar Lee has set, IMO.



+1. I also have to thank Lee for getting me into buds.


----------



## mochill

1 earbud has stopped me from buying more earbuds


----------



## waynes world (Jan 5, 2018)

mochill said:


> 1 earbud has stopped me from buying more earbuds



?


----------



## RodRevenge

waynes world said:


> You should consider something like this (for $79):
> *EarStudio: World's first studio-quality Bluetooth receiver*
> https://www.ear-studio.com/
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/radsone-earstudio.867366/
> ...


Damn that looks pretty good for that price.


----------



## DBaldock9

jant71 said:


> Anyone try this sellers buds?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/YMH...eadphones-For-Samsung-iPhone/32656179214.html
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...amsung-iPhone-xiaomi/1396671_32846757072.html
> ...




I've purchased parts from the Yuming Store, to assemble earbuds.
Unfortunately, nearly every order has had errors - most of which they've made right. (But, it takes another 3 weeks to get the missing item...)


----------



## RodRevenge

mbwilson111 said:


> Of those I  have only used the Edifier H190.  I think you would like them.  Any time I put them in my ears they seem to stay there for hours. They are very comfortable and sound great to me.   Are you able to get them quickly from Amazon Canada?  I have to admit. .. I love the instant gratification that I get from Amazon...sometimes.


I know bro, i waited 63 days for my seahf, the waiting is what stops me from buying more


----------



## DBaldock9

RodRevenge said:


> I know bro, i waited 63 days for my seahf, the waiting is what stops me from buying more



*HINT:*  I believe @mbwilson111 is a lady...


----------



## chinmie

DBaldock9 said:


> I've got the OurArt Ti7, ToneKing TO200, and ToneKing TP16.
> 
> Without rewiring, the TP16 is Single-Ended(3.5mm TRS).  It sounds good, and is very efficient, so it's loud when driven by lower powered sources, like phones.
> 
> ...



How do you describe the ourart compared to the svara L and the TP16?


----------



## mochill

waynes world said:


> ?


Stardust, now waiting for the limited edition


----------



## DBaldock9

chinmie said:


> How do you describe the ourart compared to the svara L and the TP16?



Using the Single-Ended output on the DP-X1B, and a 3.5mm TRS -to- 2.5mm TRRS adapter for the OurArt Ti7 & Svara L cables.
All earbud cables worn over-the-ear, and have a Full Foam over a Donut Foam.

For Bass:  Svara L > TP16 > Ti7
For Midrange:  TP16 > Ti7 > Svara L
For Treble:  Ti7 > TP16 > Svara L  (NOTE: My hearing only goes out to 13KHz - 14KHz.)
Size of Sound Stage: TP16 > Ti7 > Svara L


----------



## chinmie

DBaldock9 said:


> Using the Single-Ended output on the DP-X1B, and a 3.5mm TRS -to- 2.5mm TRRS adapter for the OurArt Ti7 & Svara L cables.
> All earbud cables worn over-the-ear, and have a Full Foam over a Donut Foam.
> 
> For Bass:  Svara L > TP16 > Ti7
> ...



based on your description i assume to you the TP16 is better than the ourart? out of the three, which one do you like the most? 

my hearing only goes to 14/15 khz at best too


----------



## DBaldock9

chinmie said:


> based on your description i assume to you the TP16 is better than the ourart? out of the three, which one do you like the most?
> 
> my hearing only goes to 14/15 khz at best too



Well, if I'd had the opportunity to audition them, before purchasing - I probably would have selected the TP16 (especially considering the price). And I would have also bought the Svara L, due to the Bass thump.

The ToneKing TO200 sounds similar to the TP16 (with a little smaller Sound Stage), and it has MMCX connections, for interchangeable cables.


----------



## dennisopk

Anyone have these, prices are cheaper than DIY myself, how do they sound?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/GM5...1.html?spm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.262.QBgJAY

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/GM5...0.html?spm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.268.QBgJAY


----------



## dennisopk

and these 300ohm

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/YMH...4.html?spm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.275.QBgJAY


----------



## SweetEars

I received a wrong item today. Ordered the edifier h101 . But got entirely different item.

Anyone knows where to order the edifier h101


----------



## acap13

SweetEars said:


> I received a wrong item today. Ordered the edifier h101 . But got entirely different item.
> 
> Anyone knows where to order the edifier h101



I'm not surprised. 

Lol jk


----------



## SweetEars

acap13 said:


> I'm not surprised.
> 
> Lol jk


sorry but why??


----------



## acap13

SweetEars said:


> sorry but why??



Sorry. I was just joking
Btw, I got the H101 from local gagdet store which I believe available easily in Singapore. Have you tried finding one?


----------



## SweetEars

acap13 said:


> Sorry. I was just joking
> Btw, I got the H101 from local gagdet store which I believe available easily in Singapore. Have you tried finding one?


where exactly...i cant seem to find it... if u can give me the location thanks?


----------



## acap13

@SweetEars 

I dont live in Singapore but you can find them in any computer/gadget stores around the city. I believe you will find at least one shop that sell them out of the bunch. I think you can find them yourself more better than I can by walk in buy


----------



## tim0chan

SweetEars said:


> where exactly...i cant seem to find it... if u can give me the location thanks?


Get from lazada


----------



## mundixx

Hi guys. Wanted some help from you. Is the SQ a huge jump between the Shozy BK and the Willsound 32 Ohm? I apologize if this has been answered before. My source is Sony A45 if that will help.


----------



## SweetEars

tim0chan said:


> Get from lazada


i got it from lazada  and they sent the wrong item...


----------



## ShabtabQ

RodRevenge said:


> Graphenes are really loved around here, it depends on your music taste, what are you listening with them?



Would be listening with my phone which is OP3t at the moment will soon upgrade to a dap or dac


----------



## chinmie

mundixx said:


> Hi guys. Wanted some help from you. Is the SQ a huge jump between the Shozy BK and the Willsound 32 Ohm? I apologize if this has been answered before. My source is Sony A45 if that will help.



not really. also the sound signature is different. the BK have better mids, the Mk have better lows.


----------



## mbwilson111

SweetEars said:


> i got it from lazada  and they sent the wrong item...



Have you contacted them?  Surely they will correct their mistake.

What did they send?  Is it something you would want to keep?


----------



## SweetEars

fairx said:


> Man I have to rave h101 again lol. Further burn and listening over ear (not sure which) really improves holographic. I mean chesky tracks, Candido, Alexis Cole all sound very much in proximity. Spacious and almost real. This rivals at least semi open back headphones in spaciousness.
> 
> This one destroy my other budget earbuds. Emx500? Vido? . Pffth.. This even excels against RX-1. IMO. I wish the resolution could be better,
> 
> ...


can i know where u got the h101?...


----------



## SweetEars

mbwilson111 said:


> Have you contacted them?  Surely they will correct their mistake.
> 
> What did they send?  Is it something you would want to keep?


yes i contacted them and they said they will refund me


----------



## mbwilson111

SweetEars said:


> yes i contacted them and they said they will refund me



So they do not have the correct item to send?


----------



## SweetEars

*BGVP DX3

any review on this??*


----------



## SweetEars

mbwilson111 said:


> So they do not have the correct item to send?


i am not sure .. they sent me the wrong one.. i dont even know what they sent me? unbranded, no packaging in- ear buds


----------



## chinmie

SweetEars said:


> *BGVP DX3
> 
> any review on this??*



not yet, but i think @HungryPanda has them and already gave an impression. try searching this thread


----------



## mbwilson111

SweetEars said:


> i am not sure .. they sent me the wrong one.. i dont even know what they sent me? unbranded, no packaging in- ear buds



You should find out if they have the edifier.  If they do they should send it to you but they should not require you to return the generic thing that they sent.  Seems like they sent you someone else's order.   If they cannot send you the correct item then of course a refund is the only option.


----------



## mundixx

chinmie said:


> not really. also the sound signature is different. the BK have better mids, the Mk have better lows.



Thanks and good to know! I wasn't so sure I I can justify my itch to buy the Shozy given the huge price gap


----------



## SweetEars

mbwilson111 said:


> You should find out if they have the edifier.  If they do they should send it to you but they should not require you to return the generic thing that they sent.  Seems like they sent you someone else's order.   If they cannot send you the correct item then of course a refund is the only option.


yeah they agreed to refund.. its the first time i ordered anything in lazada...


----------



## chinmie

mundixx said:


> Thanks and good to know! I wasn't so sure I I can justify my itch to buy the Shozy given the huge price gap



have you tried the BK? i suggest meeting with fellow forum member in your country to test it (or better yet, compare it directly to Willsound if they happen to have both). i used to think that there's no point purchasing high end buds, especially because the cheap ones like even the Vido already performs great... but i ended up purchasing the Liebesleid anyway


----------



## SweetEars

anyone  here already burned in the new version graphenes? do u notice a change in the Sq?


----------



## mbwilson111

SweetEars said:


> anyone  here already burned in the new version graphenes? do u notice a change in the Sq?



You have had yours long enough to burn them in.  Do you notice a difference?  I have burned mine in.  I don't really notice a difference.  I do not need them to change. I enjoyed them out of the box and I enjoy them now.  I have used them with my Daps.  I never listen from a phone and I do not plug things into my ipad or android tablet.  If I did I would add a portable amp.  I should try that sometme.


----------



## SweetEars (Jan 6, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> You have had yours long enough to burn them in.  Do you notice a difference?  I have burned mine in.  I don't really notice a difference.  I do not need them to change. I enjoyed them out of the box and I enjoy them now.  I have used them with my Daps.  I never listen from a phone and I do not plug things into my ipad or android tablet.  If I did I would add a portable amp.  I should try that sometme.


Noticed a slight change in SQ......the mid bass and sub bass is slightly more now and the sound is more forward with clarity and layering


----------



## seanc6441

SweetEars said:


> Noticed a slight change in SQ......the mid bass and sub bass is slightly more now and the sound is more forward with clarity and layering



Pretty much in line with what I experienced with the old graphene’s , the bass comes alive after a burn in period and the veil lifts slightly. Can’t say it’s transformed completely and I’m still not a huge fan of it’s midrange but it did improve a bit.


----------



## fairx

mbwilson111 said:


> Of those I  have only used the Edifier H190.  I think you would like them.  Any time I put them in my ears they seem to stay there for hours. They are very comfortable and sound great to me.   Are you able to get them quickly from Amazon Canada?  I have to admit. .. I love the instant gratification that I get from Amazon...sometimes.


 how do you rank your h190 compared to other earbud? I'd love to hear some. Impression  or point me to some  in earlier thread ClieOS rank h185 better 

Another thing  how much mrice e100 stack against current earbud offerings like Graphene  or  emx500?


----------



## SweetEars

fairx said:


> how do you rank your h190 compared to other earbud? I'd love to hear some. Impression  or point me to some  in earlier thread ClieOS rank h185 better
> 
> Another thing  how much mrice e100 stack against current earbud offerings like Graphene  or  emx500?


https://www.amazon.com/GranVela-Fidelity-Tangle-Free-Triangle-Headphones/dp/B00O0I384I

Is this the one ? Reviews there state they have quality problrms


----------



## chinmie

fairx said:


> how do you rank your h190 compared to other earbud? I'd love to hear some. Impression  or point me to some  in earlier thread ClieOS rank h185 better
> 
> Another thing  how much mrice e100 stack against current earbud offerings like Graphene  or  emx500?



The new buds are definitely better than the mrice e100


----------



## seanc6441

hey any shozy bk users here who can compare the original donut foams with your average donuts you get with most earbuds?

Any difference between them? Thanks


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> hey any shozy bk users here who can compare the original donut foams with your average donuts you get with most earbuds?
> 
> Any difference between them? Thanks


I just received the Shozy Cygnus (a little late to the party, I know).  Assuming that the donuts are the same for both models, these are between the thickness of a cheap-o Ali foam and a Heigi.  The holes are centered, which is nice.

I was a little surprised that only one set of foams came with the Cygnus....... for the price, they could throw in a couple more sets.


----------



## seanc6441

doggiemom said:


> I just received the Shozy Cygnus (a little late to the party, I know).  Assuming that the donuts are the same for both models, these are between the thickness of a cheap-o Ali foam and a Heigi.  The holes are centered, which is nice.
> 
> I was a little surprised that only one set of foams came with the Cygnus....... for the price, they could throw in a couple more sets.


thanks I was thinking it may have been abit thicker and possibly more pourus but wasn’t sure.


----------



## seanc6441

doggiemom said:


> I just received the Shozy Cygnus (a little late to the party, I know).  Assuming that the donuts are the same for both models, these are between the thickness of a cheap-o Ali foam and a Heigi.  The holes are centered, which is nice.
> 
> I was a little surprised that only one set of foams came with the Cygnus....... for the price, they could throw in a couple more sets.


What do you think of the Cygnus? Any otherbuds for reference?


----------



## Saoshyant

As far as E100 is concerned, it was always a gamble.  Some versions were thought to be better than others, but there was no real verification of any of it, just supposition.  I personally wasn't that impressed with it in the first place, and absolutely love current budget offerings over the mrice/baldoor E100.


----------



## SweetEars

seanc6441 said:


> Pretty much in line with what I experienced with the old graphene’s , the bass comes alive after a burn in period and the veil lifts slightly. Can’t say it’s transformed completely and I’m still not a huge fan of it’s midrange but it did improve a bit.


i noticed no veil in high res sound...maybe these are designed for high res


----------



## SweetEars

anyone tried these ??
https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/memt-x3mini.html


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 6, 2018)

SweetEars said:


> i noticed no veil in high res sound...maybe these are designed for high res


I don’t really know what you mean by ‘designed for high res’ but I’m listening through spotify ‘extreme’ which is 320kbps most likely and that’s of good enough standard for these earbuds (much better than youtubes compressed audio).

The graphene’s have too much sub bass in a proportion to mid bass and lower mids imo. Actually they are just somewhat bassy in general but the decay is quite slow so it’s a very rumbley bass and not that tight. They have nice depth but also a kind of resonance of sound like your listening in a metal chamber or something it’s hard to describe. I think it’s the properties of the graphene driver.

Although the deepest sounding bud I have owned is the Toneking Tomahawk. That was impressively deep and 3D sounding for an earbud in this price range and I liked how that sounded except for the treble peaks and cold vocals.


----------



## SweetEars

seanc6441 said:


> I don’t really know what you mean by ‘designed for high res’ but I’m listening through spotify ‘extreme’ which is 320kbps most likely and that’s of good enough standard for these earbuds (much better than youtubes compressed audio).
> 
> The graphene’s have too much sub bass in a proportion to mid bass and lower mids imo. They have nice depth but also a kind of resonance of sound like your listening in a metal chamber or something it’s hard to describe. I think it’s the properties of the graphene driver.
> 
> Although the deepest sounding bud I have owned is the Toneking Tomahawk. That was impressively deep and 3D sounding for an earbud in this price range.


Toneking Tomahawk..thansk for the information the resonance u are referring too, yeah thats a deal breaker. on these graphenes ..

i a considering my next purchase...

Toneking Tomahawk
Penon BS1
Bgvp DX3

I like a large deep sound stage and layering with sub bass and sparkle


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 6, 2018)

SweetEars said:


> Toneking Tomahawk..thansk for the information the resonance u are referring too, yeah thats a deal breaker. on these graphenes ..
> 
> i a considering my next purchase...
> 
> ...


Tomahawk is such a love/hate earbud. It’s amazing on the right source but it’s signature is difficult at times. It’s not really recommended anymore due to the contrasting opinions. If you have a warm source and are prepared to EQ it it can be pretty impressive especially for atmospheric and instrumental music. Although it does metal instruments better than wood, it has a metallic sound signature in some ways

I broke mine but I really wish I still had it to compare to my earbuds of today, also because i have nothing else really like it except the Penon BS1 which has that depth but in a different sound signature.

Also the cable was annoyingly stiff although not nearly as bad as the dreaded emx500 braided cable.


----------



## SweetEars

seanc6441 said:


> Tomahawk is such a love/hate earbud. It’s amazing on the right source but it’s signature is difficult at times. It’s not really recommended anymore due to the contrasting opinions. If you have a warm source and are prepared to EQ it it can be pretty impressive especially for atmospheric and instrumental music. Although it does metal instruments better than wood, it has a metallic sound signature in some ways
> 
> I broke mine but I really wish I still had it to compare to my earbuds of today, also because i have nothing else really like it except the Penon BS1 which has that depth but in a different sound signature.
> 
> Also the cable was annoyingly stiff although not nearly as bad as the dreaded emx500 braided cable.


thank u... i am looking for deep soundstage with deep sub bass and sparkely


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 6, 2018)

SweetEars said:


> thank u... i am looking for deep soundstage with deep sub bass and sparkely


Maybe you’ll love it. It’s not a warm sound but some prefer neutral-cold. Also it’s slightly U shaped like emx500.

There are newer variants of toneking but the reviews seem to suggest they are either more mid centric or more flat/balanced thus probably not sounding exactly like the tomahawk.

Be warned the treble is strong. Needs EQ or thick foams for the outer shell (maybe heigi donut or 2 different foams stacked)


----------



## SweetEars

seanc6441 said:


> Maybe you’ll love it. It’s not a warm sound but some prefer neutral-cold. Also it’s slightly U shaped like emx500.
> 
> There are newer variants of toneking but the reviews seem to suggest they are either more mid centric or more flat/balanced thus probably not sounding exactly like the tomahawk.


does the type of shell affect the sound properties?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 6, 2018)

SweetEars said:


> does the type of shell affect the sound properties?


Debatable 

Since wood isn’t used much, I’ll only mention metal and plastic.

Metal in headphones tends to sound brighter to some than plastic or wood. density and resonance of sound probably plays a big part in that.

But for earbuds i’m not sure because the drivers don’t vibrate as much as headphone drivers so it’s not resonating through the material as much! tomahawk has metal shell and plastic cover FYI

My feeling is that it doesn’t have a big effect in earbuds but does have an effect in headphones.

More important is the shell cavity size and shape, where the sound bounces off. Also damping matierals and vents make a huge difference to sound.


----------



## SweetEars

do u know the toneking RS01? how do they sound??


----------



## seanc6441

SweetEars said:


> do u know the toneking RS01? how do they sound??


never heard of that earbud sorry!


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Tomahawk is such a love/hate earbud. It’s amazing on the right source but it’s signature is difficult at times. It’s not really recommended anymore due to the contrasting opinions. If you have a warm source and are prepared to EQ it it can be pretty impressive especially for atmospheric and instrumental music. Although it does metal instruments better than wood, it has a metallic sound signature in some ways
> 
> I broke mine but I really wish I still had it to compare to my earbuds of today, also because i have nothing else really like it except the Penon BS1 which has that depth but in a different sound signature.
> 
> Also the cable was annoyingly stiff although not nearly as bad as the dreaded emx500 braided cable.



The tomahawk some of the fastest earbuds that i sold again after purchasing. not that it sounds bad, it was good actually, but it is really fatiguing and made my ears ringing after using them. It was also kinda dry sounding to me, similar to the vx pro. I much prefer the cheaper TP16 than the tomahawk.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 6, 2018)

chinmie said:


> The tomahawk some of the fastest earbuds that i sold again after purchasing. not that it sounds bad, it was good actually, but it is really fatiguing and made my ears ringing after using them. It was also kinda dry sounding to me, similar to the vx pro. I much prefer the cheaper TP16 than the tomahawk.


It’s really source picky if I remember correctly and can sound dry/cold and grainy on certain sources. Needs a bit of amping I think. The treble was too much agreed. They  needed some thick a** foams to calm it down. Maybe a tube amp would help 

Earbuds should be tuned to be used with the thinner foams because then you don’t lose any detail. Having that much treble emphasis is just painful to the ears!


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> What do you think of the Cygnus? Any otherbuds for reference?


Yes, I have a few other earbuds for reference, , there is a list in my profile.

I've only spent about an hour with the Cygnus.  They are very, very vocal-forward with the stock donut foams.  I switched to a thicker foam (not quite as thick as Heigi, but thicker than most), and that recessed the vocals a bit (in a good way) at the expense of soundstage.  Vocals do sound very clear, emotional, and life-like, but I wouldn't listen to instrumental music with these.

In fairness, this bud has been around for a while so has a lot more competition than when it first came out, but I wouldn't recommend them in this price range.  The high-end K's play in the ~$100 range, and the Samsaras blow the Cygnus away, IMHO.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 6, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> Yes, I have a few other earbuds for reference, , there is a list in my profile.
> 
> I've only spent about an hour with the Cygnus.  They are very, very vocal-forward with the stock donut foams.  I switched to a thicker foam (not quite as thick as Heigi, but thicker than most), and that recessed the vocals a bit (in a good way) at the expense of soundstage.  Vocals do sound very clear, emotional, and life-like, but I wouldn't listen to instrumental music with these.
> 
> In fairness, this bud has been around for a while so has a lot more competition than when it first came out, but I wouldn't recommend them in this price range.  The high-end K's play in the ~$100 range, and the Samsaras blow the Cygnus away, IMHO.



Oh I see you’ve amassed a modest little collection there )

well agreed that’s why I bought mine used for €33 lol, I can recommend them at anything under $50 not because they are bad at $80 just a little overpriced for such a niche bud which won’t handle every genre.

Again agreed like the shozy bk they are for vocal, acoustic and rock and definitely not for instrumental or atmospheric music.

I think at it’s niche speciality the bk is just superior for these genres but if you can pick up a cygnus second hand below $50 it’s totally worth it!

One thing I like about the cygnus particularly is the treble, how it’s somewhat exciting and sparkly but rolled off before it becomes fatigued. Really helps with longer listening sessions.


----------



## SweetEars

seanc6441 said:


> never heard of that earbud sorry!


https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/toneking-ros1.html


----------



## seanc6441

SweetEars said:


> https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/toneking-ros1.html


news to me. Looks abit funny but it’s all about the sound right 

Someone will have to try it.


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> Oh I see you’ve amassed a modest little collection there )
> 
> well agreed that’s why I bought mine used for €33 lol, I can recommend them at anything under $50 not because they are bad at $80 just a little overpriced for such a niche bud which won’t handle every genre.
> 
> ...


Yes, the earbud addiction is real!  

Glad to hear that I'm not being too hard on the Cygnus.  I thought maybe I wasn't giving them a fair chance because I am grumpy about the cold weather here.  I paid about $80 for them on 11.11.  Glad I didn't pay full price, but I did want to hear them since they are one of the 'classic' buds.


----------



## seanc6441

doggiemom said:


> Yes, the earbud addiction is real!
> 
> Glad to hear that I'm not being too hard on the Cygnus.  I thought maybe I wasn't giving them a fair chance because I am grumpy about the cold weather here.  I paid about $80 for them on 11.11.  Glad I didn't pay full price, but I did want to hear them since they are one of the 'classic' buds.



The BK is the real deal but again it’s pricey. But I love the analog mid forward signature for acoustic and rock and to me that bud is incredible at this specific sound presentation. I mean I don’t think there is a one all rounder earbud that handles everything with perfection so we are stuck to buy a few different earbuds for different music


----------



## golov17

https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=25


----------



## tim0chan

golov17 said:


> https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=25


Oh yeah


----------



## fairx

A friend of mine brought his edifier h186. It sound the same as h101. Clean and crisp sounding . But not much micro detail compared to h101. More forward sound . Sub bass is better on h101. H186 don't have the glaring 4.5k issue . Overall I think h101 still wins in SQ  being more depth and sub bass . But layering seems better on h186.


----------



## FlyingRhino

Need some help from the forum. Going to Japan in April (including Tokyo and Osaka). Does anyone know of any good audio stores / audio meets with a good selection of earbuds to try out?

Keen on getting a totl bud, but want to hear with my own ears first


----------



## chaiyuta

@FlyingRhino : e-earphone stores are located at Osaka, Akihabara (Tokyo), Shibuya (Tokyo). Hope this helps.


----------



## seanc6441

golov17 said:


> https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=25


I love the look of it way more than monk lite, I cannot wait to hear impressions of this


----------



## SweetEars

fairx said:


> A friend of mine brought his edifier h186. It sound the same as h101. Clean and crisp sounding . But not much micro detail compared to h101. More forward sound . Sub bass is better on h101. H186 don't have the glaring 4.5k issue . Overall I think h101 still wins in SQ  being more depth and sub bass . But layering seems better on h186.


i wish to buy the H101 from u .. is possible to sell me thru ebay...?


----------



## jant71 (Jan 7, 2018)

Man saw the Zen lite yesterday thought someone had to already have already posted about it. Anything Lee had to say about how it is tuned yet??


----------



## tim0chan

jant71 said:


> Man saw the Zen lite yesterday thought someone had to already have already posted about it. Anything Lee had to say about how it is tuned yet??


If we follow how the monk lite was tuned Vs monk plus, the zen lite should be a "lite" tuning, less warm


----------



## seanc6441

SweetEars said:


> i wish to buy the H101 from u .. is possible to sell me thru ebay...?


You can use headfi classifieds for that, save yourself on ebay fee’s.


----------



## seanc6441

tim0chan said:


> If we follow how the monk lite was tuned Vs monk plus, the zen lite should be a "lite" tuning, less warm



Hard to say if it will follow that trend though being completely different drivers at different price points.

We shall see.


----------



## tim0chan

seanc6441 said:


> Hard to say if it will follow that trend though being completely different drivers at different price points.
> 
> We shall see.


I think in this case it is more of a limitation of the driver size, the driver is smaller to fit into the housing hence the volume of air moved is limited hence less bass


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Jan 7, 2018)

When I first got into earbuds, nobody warned me about the Sunday afternoons spent "researching" all these models so obscure that you have to turn to translated foreign language forums looking for hints about what you might get. No one warned me about this:

_now we will feel for any Seahf AWK-F400S headphones , which are more harmful by a hundred Ohms. Getting to them was not easy, because the personal toad resisted more actively than usual. It's understandable - as much as $ 65 for loose leaves! But the man is stronger, smarter and harder, that's why I'm holding the coveted model now. 

...because even the youngest connoisseur of spitting knows that they are worth three kopecks...

Well, what about the sound? For $ 65, these headphones just have to knock down! Yes, gentlemen, they are ****ing. I strongly recommend that you listen to them on some living thing. 
_​And finally this misogynistic masterpiece that is copy and pasted right out of an *earbud review*. I don't know if this is culturally okay in other countries and I don't think it would make me feel better if it was. 

_ I think women like everybody and most of them, even those that can not be called ideal, are much better than their absence. Even untrained *** can make you happy, but you want to squeeze in your hands something sporty-elastic-protruding. _​


----------



## seanc6441

DJ The Rocket said:


> When I first got into earbuds, nobody warned me about the Sunday afternoons spent "researching" all these models so obscure that you have to turn to translated foreign language forums looking for hints about what you might get. No one warned me about this:
> 
> _now we will feel for any Seahf AWK-F400S headphones , which are more harmful by a hundred Ohms. Getting to them was not easy, because the personal toad resisted more actively than usual. It's understandable - as much as $ 65 for loose leaves! But the man is stronger, smarter and harder, that's why I'm holding the coveted model now.
> 
> ...


I had to read it twice to grasp the general meaning of what I just read.

Seems to me that he likes big butts and he cannot lie... lol

I’ll show myself out.

(oh and I need those Seahf’s they sound amazing  )


----------



## seanc6441

@doggiemom Oh btw I’m using my cygnus with Monk thin foams which I find sound the best to balance out the sound.

If that’s helps you enjoy them a little more!


----------



## tim0chan

The penon BS1 experience ver is officially sold out. None on the website and on the AliExpress store


----------



## seanc6441

One for sale in the classifieds fyi, think it is still up anyway.


----------



## kurtextrem

OMG I received the Penon earbuds today (with the limited deal) - and oh my god. I feared that the shell is too big. But it's a nice little housing.
But.. the eye candy is SO real. Just from looking I get an eyegasm lol - they're FAAAAR more pretty than the Shozy BK. And there is a leather case. Wow. I'm impressed.


----------



## golov17 (Jan 8, 2018)

Go to..

Damn .. yeah, they're almost better than the big brother


----------



## seanc6441

kurtextrem said:


> OMG I received the Penon earbuds today (with the limited deal) - and oh my god. I feared that the shell is too big. But it's a nice little housing.
> But.. the eye candy is SO real. Just from looking I get an eyegasm lol - they're FAAAAR more pretty than the Shozy BK. And there is a leather case. Wow. I'm impressed.


Impressons?

@golov17 and you too


----------



## golov17 (Jan 8, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Impressons?
> 
> @golov17 and you too


On customs house now.. waiting..


----------



## mochill

Need comparison of the zen 2 with zen 2 lite


----------



## golov17

mochill said:


> Need comparison of the zen 2 with zen 2 lite


BIG sound with better fit bro, i love them


----------



## seanc6441

golov17 said:


> BIG sound with better fit bro, i love them


Same signature?


----------



## golov17

seanc6441 said:


> Same signature?


Yup


----------



## Danneq

Something to keep an eye on: https://www.ebay.com/itm/152857157412?ul_noapp=true

Very big and deep soundstage with some of the best instrument separation and layering I've heard (only CAX Red Dragon beats it without any problems). However, since it's a classic from the early 90's the final price might be very high...


----------



## kurtextrem

seanc6441 said:


> Impressons?
> 
> @golov17 and you too


It (Penon BS Official) has more bass than Shozy BK, and they share a few similarities in sound sig. However, I'm not too audio-techy so I can't tell you the correct words for it.
It could also be, that the thing I recognize as sound sig is a sign for high tier earbuds, so not sure. But for the price they're insane. There is a difference in certain songs, but I'm not sure what I prefer yet, as I'm totally used to Shozy BKs sound and Penon BS hasn't burned in yet.
The fit is good and they stay in my ear. I find the fit better than regular MX shells and it's a good alternative to the Yuin shell.


----------



## seanc6441

kurtextrem said:


> It (Penon BS Official) has more bass than Shozy BK, and they share a few similarities in sound sig. However, I'm not too audio-techy so I can't tell you the correct words for it.
> It could also be, that the thing I recognize as sound sig is a sign for high tier earbuds, so not sure. But for the price they're insane. There is a difference in certain songs, but I'm not sure what I prefer yet, as I'm totally used to Shozy BKs sound and Penon BS hasn't burned in yet.
> The fit is good and they stay in my ear. I find the fit better than regular MX shells and it's a good alternative to the Yuin shell.


I think the bk’s have slightly better texture and a decent amount more low midrange/male vocal thickness, but bs1 has smoother high’s and bigger soundstage.

Agreed the tuning is similar except the bs1 is more neutral and the bk more neutral-warm.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Jan 13, 2018)

Edit: I updated my impressions from this review in post 27,096

I'd like to thank everybody who's shared their impressions of the *Yincrow X6* so far. I wanted to sample some of the chi-fi gold everyone's raving about, and with google's help I compiled bits of impressions left here and there into almost a proper review. It wasn't simple but my work paid off, because I am blown away. A lot of that is the sound sig matches my preferences perfectly--not to mention they fit my ears perfectly as well--so take my judgment here with a grain of salt, but I would call them solidly mid-fi.




They're quite well built. I mistook the casing for metal at first, and although the cable clearly cost pennies there's nothing wrong with it. It's a generous length and it's rubbery and fairly light so it doesn't undermine comfort in any way. The most impressive thing about the build are the magnets, which are strong enough to affect each other when letting the buds dangle. This was a pleasant surprise, as I generally associate magnet strength with sound quality.

Sound-wise, I'd call them tonally neutral. The bass is geared more to sub bass than mid bass. There's no excessive bloom or bloat, and the bass stays the hell away from the mids like its supposed to. It's not especially lean, but it's a nice middle ground between speed and body. The mids are fine (I never think about mids much unless something's wrong). I might like a little more treble extension now that I'm thinking about it, but that's really just a nitpick. The treble is inoffensive and free of chicanery to make it appear more detailed.

Detail retrieval and clarity is what you'd expect out of a mid-fi product. It's adequate, on an absolute scale. It doesn't stand out as good or bad, it won't wow you nor will it get in the way of anything. In practice, I think "adequate" detail is actually a big plus, because as a portable earphone, I use it to listen to a lot of streaming music, and high end detail retrieval can make compressed music sound terrible. The X6 is very forgiving in that respect. It will scale some with better source material, enough to be worth it if you want to bother, but don't expect miracles.

Layer separation is also adequate, but it's on the airier side, which I like. The soundstage stands out as a strong point--it's not K701 wide, but it's well out of head and impressively holographic. They also play much louder than most earbuds without breaking a sweat, which helps a lot in those occasional times I end up wishing for a little isolation.

I prefer donut foams on them and that's how they were reviewed, but the foam covers didn't affect the sound as much as they do on other earbuds I have. I reviewed them listening to EDM (Lukas Endhardt, HVOB, Xinobi, Stavroz, Madmotormiquel, Animal Trainer, etc) using both streamed and high quality uncompressed local files. I haven't noticed any synergy (or lack thereof) with any sources in particular.



My Yincrow X6 took exactly two weeks to arrive from Hong Kong, getting here on the same day my Stax SR-407 did. Now, I know that it takes me time to appreciate new high-end gear. It's not alarming or even surprising that the 407 has left me underwhelmed, all of my best gear is like that at first. In two weeks time my opinion will be different. What _is_ surprising is that even in my bedroom, with the Stax rig right there, the X6 is still getting more head time.

If the Stax is something like foie gras--an expensive luxury food that's really an acquired taste--the Yincrow is a bag of potato chips. Not a lot of nutritional value, made of B- or C-grade potatoes, but tasty and enjoyable all the same.

I'm kind of expecting that my enthusiasm for the X6 will burn out eventually, as I learn more about their limitations. It doesn't always work like that with me, but it does often enough. Those strong magnets give me hope that these will be an exception. Still, I'm really, really happy with my Yincrow X6. I've never heard an earbud so perfectly suited to my specific needs. If I never listened to them again I'd already have gotten my money's worth.

Oh, and did I mention I paid $13 for them?


----------



## mbwilson111

DJ The Rocket said:


> the sound sig matches my preferences perfectly--not to mention they fit my ears perfectly as well



I have been considering those but was wondering about the fit.  Is that Monk type shell or is it smaller?


----------



## DJ The Rocket

@mbwilson111 
The Monk fits very comfortably in my ears as well, so they're pretty close. The X6 might be slightly smaller even, it doesn't seem to fill out the foams quite as much


----------



## mbwilson111

DJ The Rocket said:


> @mbwilson111
> The Monk fits very comfortably in my ears as well, so they're pretty close. The X6 might be slightly smaller even, it doesn't seem to fill out the foams quite as much



Monks barely fit in my ears.  Sometimes they feel like they will fall out.  I have been trying to only buy smaller ones now.  I really liked how you reviewed the X6...you made me want it.  Just not sure about the size.

Too many similar names.  I have a Memt X6.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Monks barely fit in my ears.  Sometimes they feel like they will fall out.  I have been trying to only buy smaller ones now.  I really liked how you reviewed the X6...you made me want it.  Just not sure about the size.
> 
> Too many similar names.  I have a Memt X6.


Pretty sure I read the Yincrow X6 is a Vido driver in red shell and recabled. The shell looks identical to every other mx500 shell but maybe the driver grille/cover is smaller somehow which would help slightly if that’s the case.

The new monk/zen lite shell looks suitable although it may still be 15.6mm shell diameter not sure. PK shell is perfect size for my ear but I can fit mx500 too just not as comfortably.

My bs1 is slightly smaller and much more comfortable than standard mx500 shell also.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Jan 9, 2018)

This picture is rather less than helpful because the magnets stick the faces together a little off-center. In the picture the X6 appears to be slightly larger but it's not, I don't know what my camera is doing here. The X6 _is_ smaller* , I think, by between 1/16" and 1/32", which doesn't sound like much, but to your ears that might matter. If I were you, I'd call it a worthwhile gamble for $13, but then I'm not you 

*Edit: I determined this by using two baseball cards (well, one ripped in half) to press on the edges of the faces, and they were not parallel. Obv. I could not take a picture of this

Second edit: I'm less and less certain about this, the margin of error is about the same as the possible difference. In retrospect I maybe should have left this to someone with calipers. Or perhaps @mbwilson111 will buy a pair and report back in two weeks





seanc6441 said:


> Pretty sure I read the Yincrow X6 is a Vido driver in red shell and recabled.



I didn't know that but it makes sense, I was also looking at the Vido but someone said the build on the X6 was better and I couldn't find a Vido anyway.


----------



## golov17

sometimes a little bright on female vocals, but very well detailed with a beautiful bass. I like it.


----------



## cocolinho

@golov17  thanks. So not worth the premium price I guess? usd200 for balanced


----------



## golov17 (Jan 9, 2018)

@cocolinho  good question lol
Steel and plastic have their price, but the pleasure of listening to favorite music is priceless! Everyone decides for himself how much to spend on it..


----------



## cocolinho

I'm ready to fire up about usd200 in a new earbuds but build & sound quality should be >> EMX500/Graphene I'm currently using.  That's why brass housing of these Ling picked my interest.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 9, 2018)

cocolinho said:


> I'm ready to fire up about usd200 in a new earbuds but build & sound quality should be >> EMX500/Graphene I'm currently using.  That's why brass housing of these Ling picked my interest.


Jumping straight to high end TOTL? I completely see the logic in that as most true audiophiles (with the funds to do so) will get there eventually anyway but the only caution would be to know your preffered signature first so the $200 bud is your ‘perfect sound’ so to speak!

Ok that came off as elitist lol. What I mean is most people who love audio as much as us will naturally gravitate to expensive gear as we seek out better sound to enjoy music more haha. Just hope you know what your after when you make the purchase


----------



## cocolinho (Jan 9, 2018)

actually already got some usd100 and above earbuds, sold all of them , some maybe too quick like Zen 2.0 but I did not want to carry a specific amp for these.
Just took the plunge for the Zen light, will see. My expectations are pretty low anyway, compare to what a EMX500 sound like for few bucks or my high ends IEMs
Maybe I should just stick to my UM ME-1 which at the end are like super high end earbuds (semi open conception with some kind of Apex system to release air pressure for the ear)


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 9, 2018)

cocolinho said:


> actually already got some usd100 and above earbuds, sold all of them , some maybe too quick like Zen 2.0 but I did not want to carry a specific amp for these.
> Just took the plunge for the Zen light, will see. My expectations are pretty low anyway, compare to what a EMX500 sound like for few bucks or my high ends IEMs
> Maybe I should just stick to my UM ME-1 which at the end are like super high end earbuds (semi open conception with some kind of Apex system to release air pressure for the ear)


Oh I didn’t check your inventory but it seems you know what you’re after. Yeah I guess going from emx500 to high end IEM’s it’s hard to be impressed or surprised by anything in between. Maybe you need the CAX red dragon lol.

Those are planar magnetic open back iems? Look very cool. Probably sound amazing too 

I can see why the budget buds are enticing to you for price-performance.


----------



## cocolinho

seanc6441 said:


> Yeah I guess going from emx500 to high end IEM’s it’s hard to be impressed or surprised by anything in between.


yeah... I think that's my "issue". So I'll give a try to these new VE Zen lite and then I should stop spending money on earbuds ! but you know.... curiosity... lol


----------



## theoutsider

golov17 said:


> @cocolinho  good question lol
> Steel and plastic have their price, but the pleasure of listening to favorite music is priceless! Everyone decides for himself how much to spend on it..


BGVP DX3? how's it?


----------



## golov17

theoutsider said:


> BGVP DX3? how's it?


No complaints .. classic graphene house sound. Very well. Airy, detailed


----------



## HungryPanda

I listened to the BGVP DX3 all weekend, great earbud


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 9, 2018)

golov17 said:


> No complaints .. classic graphene house sound. Very well. Airy, detailed


Hows the midrange compared to diy graphene? I thought that was the weak point with V signature and I preferred more balanced or mid forward.

Vocals were a little too veiled and grainy also on graphene.


----------



## HungryPanda

Vocals sound good to me on the BGVP DX3


----------



## mbwilson111

DJ The Rocket said:


> Or perhaps @mbwilson111 will buy a pair and report back in two weeks



Ok I guess I will have to get a Yincrow X6 and compare the fit to that of  the Monk.  But what color???  Black.... or red?


----------



## DJ The Rocket

Well, I wear a bright red beanie every day all winter, so I'm a sucker for red ones  I wouldn't say girls compliment me on the color matching _often_, but it does happen.


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> Ok I guess I will have to get a Yincrow X6 and compare the fit to that of  the Monk.  But what color???  Black.... or red?



Red!

I remember reading a review of an earbud (Colarad?) which was criticised for the colour! I have the Colarad and the K's 64 both in red. They look great.


----------



## Saoshyant

Typically, don't expect any realistic changes in fit for MX500 earbuds.  Any changes are more likely to be caused by typical manufacturing deviations, and in my experience are minimal at best.  I personally never felt the Yincrow was worth the purchase if you already have the Vido unless you want it for collection purposes.


----------



## mbwilson111

Saoshyant said:


> I personally never felt the Yincrow was worth the purchase if you already have the Vido unless you want it for collection purposes.




I do not have a Vido.  I do have Monks.  Every thing that I have is in my profile.  Two of my buds are red...my Boarseman and my Memt.

i am also looking at the Toneking. Ros1.  Love the color but cannot figure out how the shape would fit.

https://penonaudio.com/toneking-ros1.html


----------



## SweetEars

Does anyone know where to get those earphones that came with the Sony discman in the early 1990s


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 9, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I do not have a Vido.  I do have Monks.  Every thing that I have is in my profile.  Two of my buds are red...my Boarseman and my Memt.
> 
> i am also looking at the Toneking. Ros1.  Love the color but cannot figure out how the shape would fit.
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/toneking-ros1.html


I hope you like boomy bass because if the X6 = Vido then it’s gonna be a bass monster lol

Saying that it didn’t distort the mids... It was just a very strong bass response which some will love and some won’t.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

I haven't heard a Vido, but I would only call the X6 a bass "monster" relative to other earbuds. It's closer to flat all the way down than to truly being boosted IMO. It may well be a monster compared to your Masya though. 

Speaking of which, I've decided to try to save up for a Rose Mojito. I'd still consider getting a Masya, which (according to what I've read) has nice bass extension, but doesn't hit anything like as hard. I'm pretty certain I'd enjoy the Masya a lot, but I'd probably still want the Mojito and it shouldn't take me too long to save up the difference. 

Can anyone compare the Mojito to the Campfred2? I'm especially interested in the low end, but the soundstage too. I didn't care for the original Campfred--it was over a year ago but I don't understand why not, it "should" have been right on for me, the way people talk about it---but the way people I trust describe the 2nd has me interested again.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 9, 2018)

DJ The Rocket said:


> I haven't heard a Vido, but I would only call the X6 a bass "monster" relative to other earbuds. It's closer to flat all the way down than to truly being boosted IMO. It may well be a monster compared to your Masya though.
> 
> Speaking of which, I've decided to try to save up for a Rose Mojito. I'd still consider getting a Masya, which (according to what I've read) has nice bass extension, but doesn't hit anything like as hard. I'm pretty certain I'd enjoy the Masya a lot, but I'd probably still want the Mojito and it shouldn't take me too long to save up the difference.
> 
> Can anyone compare the Mojito to the Campfred2? I'm especially interested in the low end, but the soundstage too. I didn't care for the original Campfred--it was over a year ago but I don't understand why not, it "should" have been right on for me, the way people talk about it---but the way people I trust describe the 2nd has me interested again.



It’s a pity we cannot confirm if the x6 is  the vido driver because the vido is notoriously bassy and is the recommendation for budget basshead earbuds because it’s boomy but of great depth and good enough quality that it really satisfies EDM but also many other genres.

As for the Masya it has a very interesting sound signature (neutral precise bass, slightly warm but clear midrange, neutral extended high’s) but it’s not quite as resolving as the TOTL earbuds. Also there’s a noticeable divide between low end (the back driver) and the mids and highs which are seamless (the second driver). I’m one who appreciates a bit of thickness in my lower mids and I wasn’t getting it with the masya because the bass was so clean and separated. But the vocals also had some issues with my unit so it my have been faulty.

I’d save for another earbud if you’re planning to eventually go down that route anyway you may aswell cut out the middle man so to speak.

I personally like my bass a little tighter/controlled than the vido but a more analog response (warm and extended from sub to mid bass) rather than the Masya’s more cold precise response and extreme quickness which imo makes it a very clean and controlled sound but it’s missing a smooth flow into the midrange and lacks some vocal thickness because of this.

It’s very hard for me to judge the masya when my unit may or may not have an issue, so take what I say with a grain of salt for this earbud lol


----------



## golov17 (Jan 9, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Hows the midrange compared to diy graphene? I thought that was the weak point with V signature and I preferred more balanced or mid forward.
> 
> Vocals were a little too veiled and grainy also on graphene.


everything is good with vocals with a slight accent on the upper middle, sounds fun and festive


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I have to sell my earbud collection, they are all brand new (not listened to). I don't remember the models, but I can post a photo of them all. Would anyone want to buy some?


----------



## acap13 (Jan 9, 2018)

To my ears, Vido is boosted on the subbass. Not on the midbass. When comparing Vido to something like Edifier H101, Vido can notoriously sounds veiled and cloudy due to subbass overpowering the whole spectrums. Its not the case when you are not trying to compare it with the H101. However, I find the soundstage is little bigger on Vido than H101 and subbass is deeper on Vido. But definition, I would pick the H101 due to its being very clear throughout the spectrums


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> I hope you like boomy bass because if the X6 = Vido then it’s gonna be a bass monster lol
> 
> Saying that it didn’t distort the mids... It was just a very strong bass response which some will love and some won’t.



the vido/yincrow can be therapeutic.. try them with deep bass electronic music, it really a head massager 
. my Ty Hi-z 32 also have thumping bass, but the vido still wins on extension. then again, all of them compared to the Svara L, the Svara still wins on the bass department (amount and quality). 



DJ The Rocket said:


> Speaking of which, I've decided to try to save up for a Rose Mojito. I'd still consider getting a Masya, which (according to what I've read) has nice bass extension, but doesn't hit anything like as hard. I'm pretty certain I'd enjoy the Masya a lot, but I'd probably still want the Mojito and it shouldn't take me too long to save up the difference.



just be wary that the mojito is ultra revealing, some might consider them piercing. it's higly specialized.. i can only tolerate them for classical or instrumental jazz. the masya has warmer tone compared to the mojito and suits larger music.

you might want to consider the Liebesleid. it sits right between the two roses: revealing almost like mojito, but warmer and can play along to all music better like the masya.


----------



## miroslav

My 11.11 transparent blue New Graphene finally arrived yesterday, packed in a small pouch and with additional foamies in different colors, including donuts (which I have no idea how to put on the buds). The build quality and packaging are very good for the price. 

I can only compare them to Vido and the first impression is that these are a step above - the soundstage is bigger and deeper, instruments and vocals are more life-like and clearer, though it took me a while to find the right combination of adjustments in Rockbox and VIPER4Android for my Xperia smartphone, which I use as a source.

I only miss that slamming bass that Vido produce with dance oriented electronic music. For example, The Prodigy sound rather anemic with New Graphenes without that deep and hard hitting lower range. On the other hand, Bad Religion's All Ages (and generally rock music) is great, full bodied and detailed with the Graphenes.

I hope the burn-in phase will bring improvement in the bass department.


----------



## golov17

Hmm.. not bad, not bad for 100 bucks


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 10, 2018)

golov17 said:


> Hmm.. not bad, not bad for 100 bucks


ohh I forgot you decided to take the plunge haha

Anything stand out on first impressions? For me it was the 3D soundstage and how it was imaging the depth really well.

Also what foams are they? the 100/$1 pack on aliexpress or something else?


----------



## golov17 (Jan 10, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> ohh I forgot you decided to take the plunge haha
> 
> Anything stand out on first impressions? For me it was the 3D soundstage and how it was imaging the depth really well.
> 
> Also what foams are they? the 100/$1 pack on aliexpress or something else?



textured bass, pure mids, vigorous sound, i'm impressed right now.. My choice VE foams. Always. Newest ExPack have other foams now, more high quality, recommended.

Penon foams these


----------



## seanc6441

golov17 said:


> textured bass, pure mids, vigorous sound, i'm impressed right now.. My choice VE foams. Always. Newest ExPack have other foams now, more high quality, recommended.


yeah they are slightly thicker I thought, I like them too, but also the original foams for clarity and these for better seal.


----------



## j4100

golov17 said:


> My choice VE foams. Always. Newest ExPack have other foams now, more high quality, recommended.



Excellent. I decided to order two packs with yesterday's order. Running out of those foams.


----------



## seanc6441

I’m finding myself only using VE or standard donut foams these days. Heigi and other thick dense foams lose too much airy openness and If I need to tame treble regular donut works and if I need more treble then ve foams either donut cut or just default.


----------



## golov17 (Jan 10, 2018)

But! I use Ling with thick foams ® © ©


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 10, 2018)

golov17 said:


> But! I use Ling with thick foams ® © ©


Only earbud I would consider thick foam with is rose masya but even then I prefer non dense thick foam, heigi full foams are too dense for my liking, some others are more pourus.

Whenever I try thick foams I find the sound becomes too congested and bloated midrange.


----------



## XP_98

Hello
I have the Diy 760 graphene, but I find them a little too big for my ears.
I am searching a smaller alternative, in a max 35 USD/ 30 EUR price range, with a similar good price/quality ratio, and a sound that would be "not too harsh" (not too bright). 
What would you recommend ?
I have noticed the DIY pk2, but they are too expensive for the planned use.


----------



## BrunoC

I suggest the Moondrop Nameless. For me it's one of the best budget earbuds (i tried 20+).
Clean and natural sound, clear mids and highs. Tight bass but maybe a slight push in eq. Sub-bass is a bit lacking tough.
Also great fit, great cable. Very good quality.

EMX500 is also excellent for a more v-shaped, fun sound.


----------



## XP_98 (Jan 10, 2018)

BrunoC said:


> I suggest the Moondrop Nameless. For me it's one of the best budget earbuds (i tried 20+).
> Clean and natural sound, clear mids and highs. Tight bass but maybe a slight push in eq. Sub-bass is a bit lacking tough.
> Also great fit, great cable. Very good quality.
> 
> EMX500 is also excellent for a more v-shaped, fun sound.


Both are smaller than mx760 graphene ? Should mean 15mm or smaller shell.
"Natural sound" sounds good, not too harsh highs ?


----------



## BrunoC (Jan 10, 2018)

EMX500 has the classic MX500 shell. It's actually a little bit smaller than the MX760, but not a good fit for all people.
The Moondrop shell is smaller than the EMX500's and for me it has a very good fit. Confortable and stays in place.

Natural sound means a natural timbre, the opposite to artificial (like metalic sound).
Both earbuds mentioned haven't got harsh highs.


----------



## apt_quark

DJ The Rocket said:


> When I first got into earbuds, nobody warned me about the Sunday afternoons spent "researching" all these models so obscure that you have to turn to translated foreign language forums looking for hints about what you might get. No one warned me about this:
> 
> _now we will feel for any Seahf AWK-F400S headphones , which are more harmful by a hundred Ohms. Getting to them was not easy, because the personal toad resisted more actively than usual. It's understandable - as much as $ 65 for loose leaves! But the man is stronger, smarter and harder, that's why I'm holding the coveted model now.
> 
> ...


That is freaking hilarious!


----------



## XP_98

BrunoC said:


> EMX500 has the classic MX500 shell. It's actually a little bit smaller than the MX760, but not a good fit for all people.
> The Moondrop shell is smaller than the EMX500's and for me it has a very good fit. Confortable and stays in place.
> 
> Natural sound means a natural timbre, the opposite to artificial (like metalic sound).
> Both earbuds mentioned haven't got harsh highs.


Moondrop seems to correspond to my needs, thank you !


----------



## HungryPanda

The moondrop is a very good earbud indeed


----------



## seanc6441

XP_98 said:


> Hello
> I have the Diy 760 graphene, but I find them a little too big for my ears.
> I am searching a smaller alternative, in a max 35 USD/ 30 EUR price range, with a similar good price/quality ratio, and a sound that would be "not too harsh" (not too bright).
> What would you recommend ?
> I have noticed the DIY pk2, but they are too expensive for the planned use.


PK2s is $18 I think?


----------



## waynes world

golov17 said:


> everything is good with vocals with a slight accent on the upper middle, sounds fun and festive



Fun and festive - my kinda buds!


----------



## waynes world

miroslav said:


> My 11.11 transparent blue New Graphene finally arrived yesterday, packed in a small pouch and with additional foamies in different colors, including donuts (which I have no idea how to put on the buds). The build quality and packaging are very good for the price.
> 
> I can only compare them to Vido and the first impression is that these are a step above - the soundstage is bigger and deeper, instruments and vocals are more life-like and clearer, though it took me a while to find the right combination of adjustments in Rockbox and VIPER4Android for my Xperia smartphone, which I use as a source.
> 
> ...



I was cussing and cursing for about 10 minutes trying to get donut foams on the new graphenes, so it can be challenging! But definitely try to do so because you will get a better seal, more bass and fuller sound.


----------



## golov17

XP_98 said:


> Hello





XP_98 said:


> I have the Diy 760 graphene, but I find them a little too big for my ears.
> I am searching a smaller alternative, in a max 35 USD/ 30 EUR price range, with a similar good price/quality ratio, and a sound that would be "not too harsh" (not too bright).
> What would you recommend ?
> I have noticed the DIY pk2, but they are too expensive for the planned use.


BGVP DX3 Metal Earphone HIFI Flat Earplug with Upgraded Copper Silver Plated Cable with Mic no Mic In-ear Earphone New Arrival
http://s.aliexpress.com/EbuMFrey?fromSns


----------



## XP_98

seanc6441 said:


> PK2s is $18 I think?


No, 55 USD on Penon, 62 USD on Amazon, shipping to Europe.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 10, 2018)

XP_98 said:


> No, 55 USD on Penon, 62 USD on Amazon, shipping to Europe.


Aliexpress. Most here use Aliexpress because it’s cheaper and more variety. If you’re willing to wait on shipping time.

http://s.aliexpress.com/zquiMFRV

Smooth balanced sound. Very easy listening. Best for pop/acoustic but can do other genres too.

I’d also suggest the VE expack thin foams you can search for VE monk and the ex of pack is an option to buy separately or you can buy the pk2s + a monk lite and get the foams included. Would still come  to around $30-35

Moondrop nameless would be considered neutral and balanced by those who have it, pk2s is warmer and balanced (I have this bud). Choice comes down to your preference I’d say.

Moondrop probably more airy treble and pk2s slightly more punchy in the bass if opinions are to be believed.


----------



## HungryPanda

PK2s top left, PK2 top right and Moondrop Nameless below. PK2s is smallest of all three


----------



## XP_98

HungryPanda said:


> PK2s top left, PK2 top right and Moondrop Nameless below. PK2s is smallest of all three


Thank you for this useful comparison. Pk2S are much cheaper then Pk2...
If they are thecsmallest


seanc6441 said:


> Aliexpress. Most here use Aliexpress because it’s cheaper and more variety. If you’re willing to wait on shipping time.
> 
> http://s.aliexpress.com/zquiMFRV
> 
> ...


I've red about durability issues with pk2s...


----------



## HungryPanda

I have had no problems with the PK2s and I love the sound


----------



## XP_98

HungryPanda said:


> I have had no problems with the PK2s and I love the sound


Do you have them since a long time ?


----------



## HungryPanda (Jan 10, 2018)

not too long but I use them a lot, I have has a few iems fail on me recently but I just had to open them up and solder a wire back on to either driver or cable socket


----------



## DJ The Rocket

golov17 said:


> Hmm.. not bad, not bad for 100 bucks



What are these? Can everyone else tell just by looking?


----------



## vladstef

DJ The Rocket said:


> What are these? Can everyone else tell just by looking?



Yep, pretty much if you follow this thread daily like some of us crazies do 
This is Penon BS1 Official.


----------



## mbwilson111

DJ The Rocket said:


> What are these? Can everyone else tell just by looking?





vladstef said:


> Yep, pretty much if you follow this thread daily like some of us crazies do
> This is Penon BS1 Official.



I read all the posts...usually daily...but I did not know what it was.  I wish everyone would always label their photos.  It would also help if we could always be clear about which bud we are referring to in our replies.  Sometimes the original discussion is a few pages back, making it difficult to keep track.  There are sooooo many buds.


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> There are sooooo many buds.



Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many!


----------



## Saoshyant

mbwilson111 said:


> I do not have a Vido.  I do have Monks.  Every thing that I have is in my profile.  Two of my buds are red...my Boarseman and my Memt.
> 
> i am also looking at the Toneking. Ros1.  Love the color but cannot figure out how the shape would fit.
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/toneking-ros1.html



I do love it's look.  Debating if I want to do the blind purchase.


----------



## seanc6441

XP_98 said:


> Do you have them since a long time ?


My experience with these DIY earbuds is that the are tweaked a lot. For instance the first diy pk2 i got had a thin braid cable that looked very weak. The one I received last week (a long with my pk2s) had the braided cable with a covering of clear silicone wrap on it. It’s much more durable now. Also the tuning matieral and vents on the back were tweaked for the better. The pk2s I received was a smooth clear cable of decent durability and the shell itself is very good quality with a smooth front grille.

Basically since my first chi fi earbud I bought 6 months ago, I’ve only had one faulty bud, one possibly faulty and all have been wellmade as they scale price wise. I’ve bought maybe 12-14 buds of varying prices.

But yeah the nicehck pk buds are well built especially the most recent revisions.


----------



## HungryPanda

Yeah Jim NiceHCK does make quality buds and iems


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 10, 2018)

DJ The Rocket said:


> What are these? Can everyone else tell just by looking?


I can tell because I’ve been blabbing on about them for weeks and promoting them for no particular reason other than how impressed I was for the price during the deal (99$ for bs1 official and experience buds)

It’s a TOTL/premium SQ at a resonable price. Looks amazing too if you like the fancy cables.

Plus Penon are a great company who seem to care about the customer. I got a christmas card with my BS1 ) And if there’s any issue they work it out with you fast.


----------



## HungryPanda

I could tell because someone was babbling on about them in this thread and on the earbuds anonymous facebook page


----------



## vladstef

seanc6441 said:


> My experience with these DIY earbuds is that the are tweaked a lot. For instance the first diy pk2 i got had a thin braid cable that looked very weak. The one I received last week (a long with my pk2s) had the braided cable with a covering of clear silicone wrap on it. It’s much more durable now. Also the tuning matieral and vents on the back were tweaked for the better. The pk2s I received was a smooth clear cable of decent durability and the shell itself is very good quality with a smooth front grille.
> 
> Basically since my first chi fi earbud I bought 6 months ago, I’ve only had one faulty bud, one possibly faulty and all have been wellmade as they scale price wise. I’ve bought maybe 12-14 buds of varying prices.
> 
> But yeah the nicehck pk buds are well built especially the most recent revisions.



There are plenty of reports of bad QC and what not with budget earbuds. I have bought 6-7 pairs so far and 2 of them had issues - Vido had rattling that was easy to fix, EMX500 has serious rattling on one side that was temporarily fixable but returned for good after some time. Earbuds generally have very sensitive drivers because of the design with the front cover which acts as the thing that holds membrane in place (not only for MX style buds but most of them). It makes me very nervous to go ahead and buy 100$+ earbud because they will all have this, what I consider, faulty design.
This is why I applauded Memt X6 for having a legit enclosed driver (according to promo pictures)


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> I could tell because someone was babbling on about them in this thread and on the earbuds anonymous facebook page


I even posted on r/headphones because earbuds don’t get enough love over there. I enjoy browsing the headphones over there because it’s most pictures/impressions haha


----------



## seanc6441

vladstef said:


> There are plenty of reports of bad QC and what not with budget earbuds. I have bought 6-7 pairs so far and 2 of them had issues - Vido had rattling that was easy to fix, EMX500 has serious rattling on one side that was temporarily fixable but returned for good after some time. Earbuds generally have very sensitive drivers because of the design with the front cover which acts as the thing that holds membrane in place (not only for MX style buds but most of them). It makes me very nervous to go ahead and buy 100$+ earbud because they will all have this, what I consider, faulty design.
> This is why I applauded Memt X6 for having a legit enclosed driver (according to promo pictures)


Agreed I tried to word it in a way that when price scales up quality improves, also some sellers area little more reliable like Nicehck.

Most of my $15+ have been fine, had an issue initially with my first diy pk2 and possibly my masya but my other buds works as they should.


----------



## HungryPanda (Jan 10, 2018)

That is a shame if you have a defective masya, I love mine and think it sounds great with everything I have played through them. Mind you I have spent the last two day listening with the Seahf AWK-F320s


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> That is a shame if you have a defective masya, I love mine and think it sounds great with everything I have played through them


That’s my most annoying experience because it’s by no means a cheap earbud, Rose’s quality control was questionable to some. I guess I got some bad luck.


----------



## HungryPanda

My only complaint with Rose Technologies is them making enough stuff fast enough. I ordered their Rose Mini6 only to have the order cancelled due to no stock and looks like I would have to wait for months. So bought a Lotoo Paw 5000 MKII instead


----------



## waynes world

waynes world said:


> Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Toooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many!



Fixed that for me!



HungryPanda said:


> Yeah Jim NiceHCK does make quality buds and iems



Does Jim actually make them?


----------



## HungryPanda

Him or his staff I suppose they have his branding


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 10, 2018)

Saoshyant said:


> I do love it's look.  Debating if I want to do the blind purchase.



If you are referring to the Toneking ROS1, I am tempted but am a bit worried about fit.  I can't figure out much about the size or weight from the photos.  You should get it and tell me.  Post photos of it next to others.

As for the Yincrow X6, I did order that last night (in red).  I also ordered a Monk Lite 40ohm SPC.  Those two buds are now in a race to see which one gets here first. 

I also wanted to order a Monk Lite 120 ohm standard edition with the white cable but for some reason it is only available for special events.  I don't really know what that means or if I will be able to buy one.  I was disappointed about that.


----------



## chinmie

vladstef said:


> Yep, pretty much if you follow this thread daily like some of us crazies do
> This is Penon BS1 Official.



reading headfi everyday, i just love to test myself (how to resist the urge to open my wallet)


----------



## SweetEars

acap13 said:


> To my ears, Vido is boosted on the subbass. Not on the midbass. When comparing Vido to something like Edifier H101, Vido can notoriously sounds veiled and cloudy due to subbass overpowering the whole spectrums. Its not the case when you are not trying to compare it with the H101. However, I find the soundstage is little bigger on Vido than H101 and subbass is deeper on Vido. But definition, I would pick the H101 due to its being very clear throughout the spectrums


can u know where u got the H101? i cant seem to find a way to bu them


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> If you are referring to the Toneking ROS1, I am tempted but am a bit worried about fit.  I can't figure out much about the size or weight from the photos.  You should get it and tell me.  Post photos of it next to others.



I bought a pair and they're on the burn station at the moment. I'll post some photos by the weekend. I haven't actually tried them yet, except to make sure they worked, so haven't tried for an optimal fit with foams, etc. They  are quite light and smaller than the NiceHCK graphenes and my Seahf F150C if that helps?


----------



## SweetEars

soundstage how  is on the BGVP DX3? 

deep< wide? portrait height ?


----------



## SweetEars

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I have to sell my earbud collection, they are all brand new (not listened to). I don't remember the models, but I can post a photo of them all. Would anyone want to buy some?


post it........


----------



## XP_98 (Jan 11, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> PK2s top left, PK2 top right and Moondrop Nameless below. PK2s is smallest of all three


I'm disturbed...
Don't the PK2 and PK2s on this picture share the same housing ?
If not, where did you buy your PK2s, as there seem to be a lot of sellers for "PK2s" (and "PK2") reference... I'd prefer black color if everything else is the same.
When I asked here about reliability, nicehck was recommanded, but he seems to sell only PK2 https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/2017...d-Plug-Earplugs-Headset-Free/32801437048.html, will they be as small ?
Many questions, and so many earbuds...


----------



## SweetEars

miroslav said:


> My 11.11 transparent blue New Graphene finally arrived yesterday, packed in a small pouch and with additional foamies in different colors, including donuts (which I have no idea how to put on the buds). The build quality and packaging are very good for the price.
> 
> I can only compare them to Vido and the first impression is that these are a step above - the soundstage is bigger and deeper, instruments and vocals are more life-like and clearer, though it took me a while to find the right combination of adjustments in Rockbox and VIPER4Android for my Xperia smartphone, which I use as a source.
> 
> ...


new version graphenes? yes i have them for a while now.. The sound will be more forward, layered and punchier after  burn in...or some  use .

but its my first graphene earphones so i am not sure if its sound signature is weird ? or its just another signature that i never heard before.


----------



## chinmie

SweetEars said:


> can u know where u got the H101? i cant seem to find a way to bu them



https://www.lazada.sg/catalog/?q=ed...spm=a2o42.searchlist.search.go.7a098d7bgpyZnR


----------



## kurtextrem

Would you guys recommend a donut foam on Penon BS1 Official? It comes with full foams by default.


----------



## SweetEars

chinmie said:


> https://www.lazada.sg/catalog/?q=ed...spm=a2o42.searchlist.search.go.7a098d7bgpyZnR


Previously I ordered from them and received wrong item. I don't think they have it.


----------



## dennisopk

SweetEars said:


> Previously I ordered from them and received wrong item. I don't think they have it.


I got mine H101 few weeks ago from Lazada, there are many vendors (offering difference prices) there, just avoid the one that you ordered from before.


----------



## seanc6441

kurtextrem said:


> Would you guys recommend a donut foam on Penon BS1 Official? It comes with full foams by default.


Regular donuts yeah, heigi donuts affect the soundstage in my case. I’m using the most porous regular donuts I could find.


----------



## SweetEars

dennisopk said:


> I got mine H101 few weeks ago from Lazada, there are many vendors (offering difference prices) there, just avoid the one that you ordered from before.


which link? if its in lazada.my then i cannot order...that link is only for malaysia,


----------



## HungryPanda

XP_98 said:


> I'm disturbed...
> Don't the PK2 and PK2s on this picture share the same housing ?
> If not, where did you buy your PK2s, as there seem to be a lot of sellers for "PK2s" (and "PK2") reference... I'd prefer black color if everything else is the same.
> When I asked here about reliability, nicehck was recommanded, but he seems to sell only PK2 https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/2017...d-Plug-Earplugs-Headset-Free/32801437048.html, will they be as small ?
> Many questions, and so many earbuds...


 The PK2 and PK2s have the same shell but the PK2s has a more rounded front making it a little sleeker


----------



## golov17

kurtextrem said:


> Would you guys recommend a donut foam on Penon BS1 Official? It comes with full foams by default.


http://s.aliexpress.com/m26RBBz2


----------



## miroslav

waynes world said:


> I was cussing and cursing for about 10 minutes trying to get donut foams on the new graphenes, so it can be challenging! But definitely try to do so because you will get a better seal, more bass and fuller sound.



My patience was gone after 3-4 minutes. Besides, one of the white donuts which I picked doesn't have that middle section cut from the inside, it's just a round piece of foam with a hole, a ring. I can put it on my finger no problems.  Have to check others.. The quick solution was to put another pair of full foams under the original red ones. They are from my personal aftermarket stock and thinner than those that came with Vido and Graphenes.

It is yet to be seen (heard) if this setting is permanent. Right now, the sound is detailed with good soundstage but maybe just a little bit too dark. Also, there is a trace of metalic flavor with some recordings, especially with highs. But the burn in process is ongoing and I expect further changes.

I'm already picking new/better defined details from well known music. The buds are adding a new dimension of intimacy with familiar songs and that is always a good sign. Time flies when I put them on.



@SweetEars

Yes, this is the new version of MX760 Graphene. Looking forward to improvements that you describe. They've been in use for 6-7 hours so far.


----------



## seanc6441

XP_98 said:


> I'm disturbed...
> Don't the PK2 and PK2s on this picture share the same housing ?
> If not, where did you buy your PK2s, as there seem to be a lot of sellers for "PK2s" (and "PK2") reference... I'd prefer black color if everything else is the same.
> When I asked here about reliability, nicehck was recommanded, but he seems to sell only PK2 https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/2017...d-Plug-Earplugs-Headset-Free/32801437048.html, will they be as small ?
> Many questions, and so many earbuds...


They are different earbuds with the same shell. The sound signature is not the same.


----------



## Rendster

I know this is an earbud thread but i would like to ask. I'm just wondering, how does earbuds sq compare to iem and headphones given they are on the same price range? Any unbiased comparison between those three earphones? Thank you.


----------



## Niqeres

SweetEars said:


> which link? if its in lazada.my then i cannot order...that link is only for malaysia,





chinmie said:


> https://www.lazada.sg/catalog/?q=ed...spm=a2o42.searchlist.search.go.7a098d7bgpyZnR


The link provided by chinmie is for Lazada Singapore. It's in the URL, and the prices listed there is in SGD.


----------



## chinmie

Rendster said:


> I know this is an earbud thread but i would like to ask. I'm just wondering, how does earbuds sq compare to iem and headphones given they are on the same price range? Any unbiased comparison between those three earphones? Thank you.



general consensus is that you'll get a more bang for your buck with earbuds than iems at the same price level, although to me personally, it only partially true at below 20 dollars price, and that gap seems blurry enough these days. nowadays the iems can stand toe to toe with their earbuds counterpart in the same price level. headphones? well, to me the entry point to good headphones is about 50 dollars up (portapros, ath m40, so on) 

i personally don't like to compare them directly (earbuds to iems to headphones), because they have a completely different sound characteristics and completely different use. just pick which form you like the most (and will mostly use) and invest more on that category. i like earbuds first, iems second, and headphones last, so i invest the most on earbuds


----------



## phthora

Earbuds do not have to deal with many of the engineering issues stemming from isolation and they have a much easier time designing for ergonomics, since fit is less of an issue. That means that more of the cost of R&D goes into designing the drivers themselves. Also, like open headphones, earbuds have a more open, airy sound with, typically, better instrument separation. 

Having just received the Moondrop Nameless for $25, I am very impressed at the bang for buck that these provide. Really, quite a bargain. They match well against some IEMs I have around $60 to $80. My only issue so far is getting them to fit reliably.


----------



## j4100

Couple of photos to compare the Toneking ROS1 with some other buds. Top photo is Qian 69, Seahf F150C, and NiceHCK Graphene. Lower pic is Seahf and ROS1. As you can see, its a fair bit smaller. Good news for those who have trouble with some of the larger buds. Haven't listened yet, but will do at the weekend.


----------



## fairx (Jan 11, 2018)

I just listened to friend's Oppo earbud. Seems like the model is mh133. Quite easy to get overstock set outside of Oppo bundles with phone. Sound wise very similar to eb200 but with greater details and more linear.  Less dense mid bass  . Very impressive indeed for the price {around 4-6 dollar). Not very good in heights or depth. More forward  and excess wide but not in your face.  Slight crack in mid if there's too much bass in song. Very transparent, great separation and clarity.  Suitable for jazz, classical, country . Listening to whiskey Lullaby by Alison Krauss put a smile on my face.

Though b***h to drive. Forget driving it using smartphone. This one need desktop amplification with  decent output voltage.  Even my 320ohm easier to drive than this. If you like to experience different kind of stroke but excellent details try this one.

Been listening for couple hour. Great value. Will hunt one tomorrow at local store.


----------



## XP_98

j4100 said:


> Couple of photos to compare the Toneking ROS1 with some other buds. Top photo is Qian 69, Seahf F150C, and NiceHCK Graphene. Lower pic is Seahf and ROS1. As you can see, its a fair bit smaller. Good news for those who have trouble with some of the larger buds. Haven't listened yet, but will do at the weekend.


Will be interesting to read your review, as they look really smaller than the other buds. Now we'd like to know how they sound 
On Penon audio, they don't show any foams. Are some provided in the package ?


----------



## j4100

XP_98 said:


> Will be interesting to read your review, as they look really smaller than the other buds. Now we'd like to know how they sound
> On Penon audio, they don't show any foams. Are some provided in the package ?



There were some foams, but since most of my foams are all mixed up, I forget which ones came with them! 
Small case, foams and a clip. BTW - I'm rubbish with words and interpreting what I hear, so it will be an impression, rather than a review!


----------



## XP_98

j4100 said:


> There were some foams, but since most of my foams are all mixed up, I forget which ones came with them!
> Small case, foams and a clip. BTW - I'm rubbish with words and interpreting what I hear, so it will be an impression, rather than a review!


No problem, we'll read you with interest anyway


----------



## -rowan-

Can anyone compare the Masya and/or Mojito to Stax?

I'm looking for a generally neutral earbud with very, very clean, detailed mids and treble, tight bass, speed over body, precise control and imaging and a big soundstage.

Basically something that's a little more portable than my Stax SR-002 (i.e. that doesn't require its own dedicated external amp for power) but can do mids etc like them.

Better bass/treble extension would be nice too (but it isn't exactly difficult to beat the baby Stax on that count).

I have and enjoy the Asura 2.0s but well... one is never enough.

So - does the Masya (and/or Mojito) fit the bill? If yes, which one is a better match? Sorely tempted by them after reading almost everything y'all have said about them on this thread.

And while we're at it, what other earbuds fit what I'm describing as well?


----------



## waynes world

j4100 said:


> There were some foams, but since most of my foams are all mixed up, I forget which ones came with them!
> Small case, foams and a clip. *BTW - I'm rubbish with words and interpreting what I hear, so it will be an impression, rather than a review*!



You and me both 'bro! (or 'sis!). But your impressions will be interesting regardless


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> There were some foams, but since most of my foams are all mixed up, I forget which ones came with them!
> Small case, foams and a clip. BTW - I'm rubbish with words and interpreting what I hear, so it will be an impression, rather than a review!



Even more tempted after seeing the size of the Toneking ROS1 but woill resist ordering until Imhear yours or any other impressions.  Impressions are enough for me.


----------



## HungryPanda

-rowan- said:


> Can anyone compare the Masya and/or Mojito to Stax?
> 
> I'm looking for a generally neutral earbud with very, very clean, detailed mids and treble, tight bass, speed over body, precise control and imaging and a big soundstage.
> 
> ...


Have the masya but to be honest have never heard a bud to compare to my Stax system, not in the same universe I'm afraid


----------



## DJ The Rocket

phthora said:


> Earbuds do not have to deal with many of the engineering issues stemming from isolation and they have a much easier time designing for ergonomics, since fit is less of an issue. That means that more of the cost of R&D goes into designing the drivers themselves.



What gives you this impression? Are you speaking from experience, or just making guesses? I don't think there's any reason to believe this at all. 

I was reading about the Gramo One, for example, and how a lot of development went into getting them to sound good regardless of how they fit in your ears. The prototype version apparently needed to be exactly in the sweet spot to sound good, so they worked on it, and achieved a good measure of success. So no, I think you're wrong to say fit doesn't matter. 

I get the impression that for every company like Celsus Sound doing actual R&D, there are a dozen of them stuffing whatever drivers into MX500 shells and calling it a new product. Sure, some of them can sound good, but is that a result of deliberate engineering or just the law of averages?

I don't see a reason to believe much R&D goes into anything, not even developing new drivers. Dynamic driver design is pretty thoroughly understood, so what exactly is being researched? Rose had to R&D a new design because they were trying to solve a unique problem. Is someone designing a driver specifically to combat the resonances of the MX500 shell? That would be neat but I've never heard of it. Call me cynical, but the problems the majority of companies are trying to solve are ones of price point. 

I'd love to be proven wrong here.


----------



## HungryPanda

DJ The Rocket said:


> What gives you this impression? Are you speaking from experience, or just making guesses? I don't think there's any reason to believe this at all.
> 
> I was reading about the Gramo One, for example, and how a lot of development went into getting them to sound good regardless of how they fit in your ears. The prototype version apparently needed to be exactly in the sweet spot to sound good, so they worked on it, and achieved a good measure of success. So no, I think you're wrong to say fit doesn't matter.
> 
> ...


Don't worry someone will come along and shoot you down in flames


----------



## DJ The Rocket

HungryPanda said:


> Don't worry someone will come along and shoot you down in flames



Not really what I had in mind but okay


----------



## phthora

DJ The Rocket said:


> What gives you this impression? Are you speaking from experience, or just making guesses? I don't think there's any reason to believe this at all.
> 
> I was reading about the Gramo One, for example, and how a lot of development went into getting them to sound good regardless of how they fit in your ears. The prototype version apparently needed to be exactly in the sweet spot to sound good, so they worked on it, and achieved a good measure of success. So no, I think you're wrong to say fit doesn't matter.
> 
> ...



I said that fit was less of an issue, not that it was not an issue at all. I certainly did not suggest that fit doesn't matter at all. Perhaps, I should have said that fewer earbud companies take the time to make an issue of fit. The fact that so many companies use generic shells demonstrates that. Of course, attending to the fit and ergonomics will yield a number of benefits, but lower price is not one of them. In other words, they are often more focused on solving problems of price point, as you said.

As far as R&D, think of it less as research and more as development. Taking the time to tweak and tune the drivers adds cost to the manufacturing process. By using cheap materials, generic shells, ignoring some of the aspects of fit, more of the cost involved in production can be used in developing the sound of the buds.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

@phthora That makes more sense, thanks for the clarification. Can you elaborate on what you mean by developing the sound of the buds? You're saying there's more going on than dropping a generic driver into a generic shell? Specific examples would go a long way, and I know it doesn't help that I'm not willing to name specific companies that I'm criticizing here


----------



## phthora

The Shozy BK and Yuin PK series earbuds spring to mind. Nearly identical shell. I don't know who came up with it first, perhaps it is one of those fully generic shell shapes that numerous companies use, but clearly both Shozy and Yuin spent time tuning and tweaking the drivers and housings to get the sound they wanted. They products are too good and too consistent to have been the result of luck. Likewise, even a company like Cypherus Audio uses 'generic' (in the sense of being unremarkable) shells and what appear to be the same shells throughout the product line. With these companies, some of the best, the fit and ergonomics seem to not be a priority. The earbud shape they use is tried and true, and they can focus on sound.

If you are talking about low-end companies that use all generic parts, I would agree that they likely do not tune much at all. But, I have seen some cases of generics that take an additional step of adding more or less glue, adding more or less damping, changing the damping materials, even bizarre things like piercing the drivers, just to add something new to the mix. IEMs do a similar thing. The vast majority of balanced armature drivers, for example, are made by Sonion or Knowles and then sold to manufacturers who, usually, tune these drivers in particular ways. The research has been done for them, so they can spend more time developing the same signature they want.


----------



## SweetEars

pls if u want t to argue about engineering stuff, start a different topic, this is about budget earbuds..


----------



## SweetEars

Rendster said:


> I know this is an earbud thread but i would like to ask. I'm just wondering, how does earbuds sq compare to iem and headphones given they are on the same price range? Any unbiased comparison between those three earphones? Thank you.


soundstage probably.....


----------



## seanc6441

-rowan- said:


> Can anyone compare the Masya and/or Mojito to Stax?
> 
> I'm looking for a generally neutral earbud with very, very clean, detailed mids and treble, tight bass, speed over body, precise control and imaging and a big soundstage.
> 
> ...


You’ll crave more detail than the Masya, Mojito maybe although I do not own it. Or check out the new K’s flagship earbuds.


----------



## phthora

SweetEars said:


> pls if u want t to argue about engineering stuff, start a different topic, this is about budget earbuds..



lol... That is exactly what we were discussing: whether or not basement-budget earbuds do anything beyond slapping together off-the-shelf parts.



SweetEars said:


> soundstage probably.....



...and then he addresses the same OP. Okay.


----------



## HungryPanda

@SweetEars not helping


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> @SweetEars not helping



You're not kidding! I sense a mass deletion of posts coming by morning lol.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

@phthora Thats fair, I did overgeneralize. I haven't heard any Shozy earphones, but I like the DAPs/DACs of theirs I've owned. I'll revise my complaint a bit: it's too hard (if not impossible) to tell the difference between the companies who employ engineers and the ones who employ marketing personnel "designing by ear," without buying their stuff first. 

The only way this will change is for consumers to start demanding it to, and we don't even in more mainstream hifi subfields, so I suppose it's a waste of bandwidth to hope for that to happen here. 



SweetEars said:


> pls if u want t to argue about engineering stuff, start a different topic, this is about budget earbuds..



Don't know where you got the "budget" notion from, I'm here for the higher end models mostly. I do think the engineering discussion belongs here, but if there was a consensus saying otherwise I'd certainly respect it...


----------



## SweetEars

anything out there which has the sound signature of the EMX500 but with big soundstage ?


----------



## HungryPanda

Yes LCD-X go for it


----------



## rkw

SweetEars said:


> this is about budget earbuds..


I come to this thread only for TOTL discussions and skip all the budget posts. You can start a budget earbud thread and post AR Rahman videos to your heart's content.


----------



## Tweeters

SweetEars said:


> anything out there which has the sound signature of the EMX500 but with big soundstage ?



The EMX500 does have a big soundstage, that's one of it's strengths


----------



## KevDzn (Jan 11, 2018)

For Sweet Ears - It would be easier if you also state what is your budget.


----------



## chaiyuta

SweetEars said:


> pls if u want t to argue about engineering stuff, start a different topic, this is about budget earbuds..



First of all, this is not your own thread cause you are 'NOT' a thread owner. Second, it is thread discussing about earbuds regardless of price. Check the first page If you want to know who is the thread owner.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

chaiyuta said:


> Check the first page If you want to know who is the thread owner.



No one "owns" a thread, it belongs to all of us! Welcome to the socialist utopia called head-fi


----------



## chinmie

SweetEars said:


> pls if u want t to argue about engineering stuff, start a different topic, this is about budget earbuds..



If you want to discuss only about budget ones, you should go here :
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/absolute-best-budget-earbuds.812853/

This thread you currently viewing is earbuds open battle royale


----------



## chaiyuta

-rowan- said:


> Can anyone compare the Masya and/or Mojito to Stax?
> 
> I'm looking for a generally neutral earbud with very, very clean, detailed mids and treble, tight bass, speed over body, precise control and imaging and a big soundstage.
> 
> ...



I have no experience on Stax SR-002, so my answer might not direct to your point. I ever tried both Masya and Mojito. After back and forth critical listenning, personally I prefer Mojito so far. Though there are many people who prefer Masya over Mojito as well. Many said Mojito is too cold tonality for them. Speaking of Soundstage and Detail retrieval, nothing Masya can compete. Both are not a same league. I also experienced to try Mojito with a good matching upgraded cable, Mojito becomes so far so good and not so called 'cold' tonality and wider soundstage. YMMV


----------



## chaiyuta

@DJ The Rocket : Ok I typo-ed. It is called 'Thread Starter'.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

@chaiyuta I was just making a joke, but seriously, what difference does it make who the thread starter is, today, 27,000 posts later? Their opinions don't count any more than yours or mine


----------



## chaiyuta (Jan 11, 2018)

@DJ The Rocket : I knew you was joking. Sorry if my typing style always look serious cause I am too familiar with formal writing style. I just want to warn Mr. SweetEars who want to rule this thread by forcing other that he is not entitle to do. Normally a thread starter starts the discussion topic based on the thread title and his first post. It could be called he is the most one who defines the directionality of discussion. And I agreed with you that nobody is the real man who own a thread. Perhaps the Head-fi website owner is.


----------



## j4100 (Jan 12, 2018)

Ok, I'm not very good at this, so bear with me 

Toneking ROS1

Due to their small size, they sit deeper in my ear, and maybe making them a better fit. I'm using full foams at the moment, though did try donuts. I'll swap different foams around eventually. The L/R marking are on the inside of the black stem and are very hard to see. However, due to the positioning of the stems off the buds, it's easy to know which one is left or right, so no squinting in the dark! The cable is nice and soft and there's a little plastic chin slider above the split.

First off, Amplifier, The Wave (from The Octopus) 



Spoiler: https://amplifier.bandcamp.com/album/the-octopus-2







Not a lot of sub-bass (though Neil's rolling bass lines sound good to me), but the mids and treble sounds good here. Sel's vocals come through nice and clear. Guitar sounds nice and clean, till the distortion pedals kick in. Decent soundstage, though I'm not very good at defining soundstage and imaging.

Emma Ruth Rundle - The Distance (from her split with Jaye Jayle - The Time Between Us) 



Spoiler: https://emmaruthrundle.bandcamp.com/album/the-time-between-us







Dark, reverb-laden song. Emma's voice is haunting. Her reverb'ed guitar sounds good and the percussion comes across nicely.

Arthur Lee - Sad Song (from his Solo album, Vindicator)
Everything sounds great, rhythym and lead guitars, Arthur's voice, and the bass and percussion are easy to follow.

All flac files played directly from my Fii0 X5ii.

For the $30 I paid, I think this was one of my better purchases. That they look good too is a bouns.


----------



## SweetEars (Jan 12, 2018)

j4100 said:


> Ok, I'm not very good at this, so bear with me
> 
> Toneking ROS1
> 
> ...



great ....can u comment with any comparison to graphenes or emx 500?

how is the sub  bass midbass sparkles? have u tried on everyday equiment like laptops phones? how do they sound


----------



## XP_98

j4100 said:


> Ok, I'm not very good at this, so bear with me
> 
> Toneking ROS1
> 
> ...



Thank you !
Other question : no harshness, no fatiguing trebles ?


----------



## XP_98 (Jan 12, 2018)

j4100 said:


> Ok, I'm not very good at this, so bear with me
> 
> Toneking ROS1
> 
> ...



Thank you for this review !
No harshness or fatiguing trebles ?
[EDIT : sorry for the double post, didn't find how to cancel it...]


----------



## j4100

XP_98 said:


> Thank you for this review !
> No harshness or fatiguing trebles ?
> [EDIT : sorry for the double post, didn't find how to cancel it...]



You cannot delete posts on here! Not harsh to my ears. I was using full and donut foams. However, I'm in my 50s, so no idea how my hearing is. Certainly nowhere near as trebley (is that even a word lol) as the **** PT15 though. I could listen to the ROS1 for long periods.



SweetEars said:


> great ....can u comment with any comparison to graphenes or emx 500?
> 
> how is the sub  bass midbass sparkles? have u tried on everyday equiment like laptops phones? how do they sound



I have no idea what that is. They are not basshead buds, but the bass is acceptable to me. I might be able to compare them to the Graphenes at the weekend, but I didn't really like those.

I do not listen to music on my phone. However, they are listed as 32 Ohm and 105db, so not too hard to drive.


----------



## SweetEars

j4100 said:


> You cannot delete posts on here! Not harsh to my ears. I was using full and donut foams. However, I'm in my 50s, so no idea how my hearing is. Certainly nowhere near as trebley (is that even a word lol) as the **** PT15 though. I could listen to the ROS1 for long periods.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


is there acceptable level  bass or sub bass? what about layering and clarity?


----------



## j4100

SweetEars said:


> is there acceptable level  bass or sub bass? what about layering and clarity?



I mentioned not being good at all this descriptive stuff. I don't know what's acceptable to your ears, but the bass is acceptable to me, though they do not have lots of bass. Clarity is good.


----------



## j4100

My wallet has asked me to cut up my credit card. I'm pretending I didn't hear it. I'm about to splurge on Rholupat. Pity the Red De'mun's are finished.


----------



## SweetEars

j4100 said:


> I mentioned not being good at all this descriptive stuff. I don't know what's acceptable to your ears, but the bass is acceptable to me, though they do not have lots of bass. Clarity is good.


Ok.  Compared to graphene which will be better


----------



## XP_98 (Jan 12, 2018)

j4100 said:


> You cannot delete posts on here! Not harsh to my ears. I was using full and donut foams. However, I'm in my 50s, so no idea how my hearing is. Certainly nowhere near as trebley (is that even a word lol) as the **** PT15 though. I could listen to the ROS1 for long periods.
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea what that is. They are not basshead buds, QUOTE]


Thank you for your answer.
I think I'll order them


----------



## SweetEars (Apr 1, 2018)

j4100 said:


> You cannot delete posts on here! Not harsh to my ears. I was using full and donut foams. However, I'm in my 50s, so no idea how my hearing is. Certainly nowhere near as trebley (is that even a word lol) as the **** PT15 though. I could listen to the ROS1 for long periods.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




sparkles - its an extension or  treble reverb/echo . the type of sound u get with glass breaking, crystals , water gurgling, tearing of paper or smoke or sand flowing in a hourglass  that has some reverb/ decay + crisp  in the soundstage .. extending sideways or depth that gives some accuracy , shine  , realism or naturalness to the  treble

sub bass - its an extension of the bass,,a deep bass sound/ echo  that  comes off as a low layered sound .. below the mids having reverb or decay echo ect....u can feel some vibration if the sub bass is of the rumbling type. if its smooth u will feel it as smooth

both of these u can hear in real life like eg . glass breaking, and a large fat ass truck, starting off its engine / motor , i own the newer versions of graphene with enclosed cable. i feel they are not good at low bitrate stuff but better at high res audio.


----------



## j4100

waynes world said:


> You and me both 'bro! (or 'sis!). But your impressions will be interesting regardless



'Bro, 'Bro


----------



## j4100

SweetEars said:


> sparkles..its an extension or  treble reverb/echo . the type of sound u get with glass breaking, crystals , water gurgling, tearing of paper or smoke or sand flowing in a hourglass  that has some reverb/ decay + crisp  in the soundstage .. extending sideways or depth that gives some accuracy , shine  , realism or naturalness to the  treble
> 
> sub bass //its an extension of the bass,,a deep bass sound/ echo  that  comes off as a low layered sound .. below the mids having reverb or decay echo ect....u can feel some vibration if the sub bass is of the rumbling type. if its smooth u will feel it as smooth
> 
> both of these u can hear in real life like eg . glass breaking, and a large fat ass truck, starting off its engine / motorrgarding yr view of the graphene, i own the newer versions of graphene with enclosed cable. i feel they are not good at low bitrate stuff but better at high res audio.



Sorry, but I cannot speak that language. You will have to make do with my posted impression.


----------



## SweetEars

j4100 said:


> Sorry, but I cannot speak that language. You will have to make do with my posted impression.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/describing-sound-a-glossary.220770/

can u use some terms form the above link to describe the sound then? then i can make a better picture of it


----------



## j4100

No


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 12, 2018)

SweetEars said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/describing-sound-a-glossary.220770/
> 
> can u use some terms form the above link to describe the sound then? then i can make a better picture of it



You need to order it yourself and form your own picture of it. Your ears, your hearing, your music, your sources, your expectations will never be the same as someone else's.  Please try to be more appreciative of the time that others give to this site.  I think @j4100 did an excellent job of sharing his impressions.  I will definitely be ordering the Toneking Ros1.


----------



## SweetEars

ok understood.........


----------



## seanc6441

I found the graphene’s to be a little too bassy and showing less control over other ‘bassy’ earbuds. So I wouldn’t be disappointed in any earbud that has a tighter and more balanced bass response or even slightly less than balanced would be ok.

Ros1 sounds good from your impressions, I wonder if the tonality is warm or more neutral. For reference (of the buds you own) the shozy bk would be considered slightly warm, the graphene’s more neutral.

Either way thanks for the impressions and these seem like an interesting bud. I like the smaller size seems akin to the Auglamour RX1. They can fit really well with thicker donuts or a monk thin and donut over it.


----------



## j4100

seanc6441 said:


> I found the graphene’s to be a little too bassy and showing less control over other ‘bassy’ earbuds. So I wouldn’t be disappointed in any earbud that has a tighter and more balanced bass response or even slightly less than balanced would be ok.
> 
> Ros1 sounds good from your impressions, I wonder if the tonality is warm or more neutral. For reference (of the buds you own) the shozy bk would be considered slightly warm, the graphene’s more neutral.
> 
> Either way thanks for the impressions and these seem like an interesting bud. I like the smaller size seems akin to the Auglamour RX1. They can fit really well with thicker donuts or a monk thin and donut over it.



I would say that they are more neutral, than warm.

The major plus points for the ROS1 for me apart from liking the sound, would be the comfort - they are very light and small as I mentioned plus the cable softness.

Getting a donut on was a hoot.


----------



## seanc6441

j4100 said:


> I would say that they are more neutral, than warm.
> 
> The major plus points for the ROS1 for me apart from liking the sound, would be the comfort - they are very light and small as I mentioned plus the cable softness.
> 
> Getting a donut on was a hoot.


Yeah I love the smaller earbuds, gives your ears a break from mx500 shells xD


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> Getting a donut on was a hoot.



I have tried donuts on a couple of things.  I ended up needing help. So far none have worked out for me because they shift sideways in my ear.  So, it is full foams on everything.

I dislike the feeling of all the foams.  I wish they would invent a more skin friendly materiel.


----------



## theoutsider

mbwilson111 said:


> I have tried donuts on a couple of things.


----------



## mbwilson111

theoutsider said:


>



Seems I was using the wrong donuts ...and in the wrong way...


----------



## theoutsider

mbwilson111 said:


> Seems I was using the wrong donuts ...and in the wrong way...


D'oh!


----------



## SweetEars

j4100 said:


> I would say that they are more neutral, than warm.
> 
> The major plus points for the ROS1 for me apart from liking the sound, would be the comfort - they are very light and small as I mentioned plus the cable softness.
> 
> Getting a donut on was a hoot.


Is the soundstage large ??


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 12, 2018)

SweetEars said:


> Is the soundstage large ??



You could read the original review...  @j4100 said "Decent soundstage, though I'm not very good at defining soundstage and imaging."

Why do you ask the same question constantly?

If you want amazing soundstage try the Beyerdynamic Amiron Home. Doubt it gets much better than that.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> You could read the original review...  @j4100 said "Decent soundstage, though I'm not very good at defining soundstage and imaging."
> 
> Why do you ask the same question constantly?
> 
> If you want amazing soundstage try the Beyerdynamic Amiron Home. Doubt it gets much better than that.


Full size speakers should do it


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> Full size speakers should do it



even better!  just don't put them too close together...


----------



## chinmie

SweetEars said:


> Is the soundstage large ??



you remind me of someone


----------



## j4100

I decided to have a listen to the NiceHCK MX760 Graphenes I have, to compare to the Toneking ROS1. I didn't like them when I got them, but put them on the burn rig regardless then forgot about them. They changed a fair bit, as they were harsh with not a lot of bass at the beginning., but the harshness has now gone, but I feel the bass is overpowering and not very natural. Much prefer the ROS1, even though there could be more sub bass. Still, that's just_ my_ preference.YMMV, etc.

FYI I burned the ROS1 for around 120 hours. The Graphenes had at least that.


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> I decided to have a listen to the NiceHCK MX760 Graphenes I have, to compare to the Toneking ROS1. I didn't like them when I got them, but put them on the burn rig regardless then forgot about them. They changed a fair bit, as they were harsh with not a lot of bass at the beginning., but the harshness has now gone, but I feel the bass is overpowering and not very natural. Much prefer the ROS1, even though there could be more sub bass. Still, that's just_ my_ preference.YMMV, etc.
> 
> FYI I burned the ROS1 for around 120 hours. The Graphenes had at least that.



I do really enjoy the the graphenes.  If you like the ROS1  more then I am sure i will enjoy them as well.  I hope mine arrive quickly.


----------



## waynes world

j4100 said:


> I decided to have a listen to the NiceHCK MX760 Graphenes I have, to compare to the Toneking ROS1. I didn't like them when I got them, but put them on the burn rig regardless then forgot about them. They changed a fair bit, as they were harsh with not a lot of bass at the beginning., but the harshness has now gone, but I feel the bass is overpowering and not very natural. Much prefer the ROS1, even though there could be more sub bass. Still, that's just_ my_ preference.YMMV, etc.
> 
> FYI I burned the ROS1 for around 120 hours. The Graphenes had at least that.



Great feedback. Maybe you mentioned it already, but are those the "old" graphenes? Assuming that is the case, it's good to verify that the highs settle down after some burn in (I listened to them from the start, so I didn't notice the change as much). I for one love the bass on the old graphenes, but I agree that it may not be "natural" (I'm not sure I even know what that is "natrual" anymore lol).

Anyway, the ROS1's are now on my ever expanding "the one" "next one" list!


----------



## j4100

waynes world said:


> Great feedback. Maybe you mentioned it already, but are those the "old" graphenes? Assuming that is the case, it's good to verify that the highs settle down after some burn in (I listened to them from the start, so I didn't notice the change as much). I for one love the bass on the old graphenes, but I agree that it may not be "natural" (I'm not sure I even know what that is "natrual" anymore lol).
> 
> Anyway, the ROS1's are now on my ever expanding "the one" "next one" list!



I bought my Graphenes in October. Not sure which version they are. Burn-in - I have no idea if it really works or is all in the mind, but I'm not leaving it to chance 



mbwilson111 said:


> I do really enjoy the the graphenes.  If you like the ROS1  more then I am sure i will enjoy them as well.  I hope mine arrive quickly.



I hope anyone that buys them likes them. I'd hate to be responsible for disappointment. One of the reasons I haven't really post impressions before!


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> I hope anyone that buys them likes them. I'd hate to be responsible for disappointment. One of the reasons I haven't really post impressions before!



Don't worry about that.  It is up to the reader to read between the lines AND to have realistic expectations.  It helps to have good music too.  As long as I can get into my music, I am happy.  I have really good music.

I will not be disappointed unless they are lost or defective.


----------



## waynes world

j4100 said:


> I bought my Graphenes in October. Not sure which version they are. Burn-in - I have no idea if it really works or is all in the mind, but I'm not leaving it to chance



If you show me where you bought them from, I could let you know (but no worries if you don't have it). 



> I hope anyone that buys them likes them. I'd hate to be responsible for disappointment. One of the reasons I haven't really post impressions before!



The only way you can truly be responsible here is by telling everyone to stay away from head-fi LOL

Seriously you are not responsible - whomever buys something based on your impressions is responsible (to know that they are taking a risk because their ears/preferences/sources etc might be different from yours).


----------



## j4100

waynes world said:


> If you show me where you bought them from, I could let you know (but no worries if you don't have it).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, I was almost joking. I do the same - think things through and do other reading and searching, though some people take this thread (and head-fi) too seriously. ClieOS certainly had enough people questioning his thoughts at times (I read through the whole thread).

BTW - It was a NiceHCK Graphene

II hope all of you have a great weekend.


----------



## XP_98

j4100 said:


> I hope anyone that buys them likes them. I'd hate to be responsible for disappointment. One of the reasons I haven't really post impressions before!


Too late for this warning, I've already ordered mine !


----------



## XP_98

j4100 said:


> I hope anyone that buys them likes them. I'd hate to be responsible for disappointment. One of the reasons I haven't really post impressions before!


Too late for this warning, I've already ordered mine !


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> BTW - It was a NiceHCK Graphene




NiceHCK had both graphenes the last time I looked.  The old one is the more expensive of the two.  I purposely got the new one because my husband has the old one.  Thought we could compare but we haven't yet.  As @waynes world says: tooooooooooooo many buds.


----------



## j4100

@golov17  I noticed you bought the V-Master last year and was impressed. Are you still using them without foams? I see the price looks good. How was the budget V-Oldy (if you remember). 

Thanks.


----------



## waynes world

j4100 said:


> BTW - It was a NiceHCK Graphene



(1) or (2)?

1) New

2) Old


----------



## j4100

waynes world said:


> (1) or (2)?
> 
> 1) New
> 
> 2) Old



Thanks, it was the old one.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Okay...kind of curious about new earbuds right now. Especially 15-50$ range.

Was thinking about HCK PK2 with silver cable but these one intrigue me very much:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...32831045644.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.XCBoV5

Any impressions about the PANDA Pk2 here??


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 12, 2018)

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Okay...kind of curious about new earbuds right now. Especially 15-50$ range.
> 
> Was thinking about HCK PK2 with silver cable but these one intrigue me very much:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...32831045644.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.XCBoV5
> ...


Upper Mid-Treble emphasis and texture= diy pk2

Balanced-slightly bass/lower mid emphasis  and smoothness= dsqm pk2s

That’s the main differences.

Pk2s is more all rounded because of the extra bass and slightly relaxed midrange. Although you lose some texture in vocals and the treble is smoother but less sparkly.


----------



## Saoshyant

With all the graphene love, its a shame the budget thread is dead.  Not to redirect the discussion, just thinking out loud.

I suspect with the neutrality of the ROS, I'll most likely be bored so it'll probably be a pass for me.


----------



## seanc6441

Saoshyant said:


> With all the graphene love, its a shame the budget thread is dead.  Not to redirect the discussion, just thinking out loud.
> 
> I suspect with the neutrality of the ROS, I'll most likely be bored so it'll probably be a pass for me.


Keep in mind we were discussing tonality and not necessarily the frequency being flat/neutral. Unless you prefer warmth/coldness in tonality as more fun.


----------



## SweetEars (Jan 12, 2018)

i have the new graphenes  which are  blue cable and noticed it as well....the sound is a bit more fleshed out and forward  after some use... going back and forth between the emx500 R4YS and the new graphenes. i prefer the emx500 and R4ys sound more.. but once high res sound is used, the graphenes seem to perform differently. 


_emx 500 , R4YS_ and _graphene mx 760_ ( new version blue cable)

as far i am concerned.. the first 2 are somewhat similar but the R4YS has better clarity and wider soundstage and the emx 500 has better depth soundstage . in terms of bass they are both somewhat the same but better in their own ways.. if u prefer sub bass to mid bass then emx 500 is better but overall R4Ys has better bass throughout the soundstage and also has some sub bass..graphene is a different sound signature though... its tuned more towards impact weighty thick sound and depth soundstage and doesnt have the excellent articulation ( the flow of sound from top to bottom) of the emx 500 or R4YS...

But the graphenes will articulate more in terms fo forward backwards depth.. if u are mainly a concert, classical theatre hall music listener then the graphenes will do better.. than the other 2... or if u always listen to high res sources of this sort

For movie watchers, everyday youtube and mp3 or processed music or synthesized, emx and r4Ys is better...


----------



## SweetEars

on the budget earbud thread i hear people commenting that the EMX-s 500 have a wider soundstage than the original EMX500... maybe i should check this one out


----------



## KevDzn

SweetEars said:


> i have the new graphenes  which are  blue cable and noticed it as well....the sound is a bit more fleshed out and forward  after some use... going back and forth between the emx500 R4YS and the new graphenes. i prefer the emx500 and R4ys sound more.. but once high res sound is used, the graphenes seem to perform differently.
> 
> 
> _emx 500 , R4YS_ and _graphene mx 760_ ( new version blue cable)
> ...


Yes, we all know you have the new graphene,  R4Ys and emx500. You been saying it soooooooooo many times. It's getting tiring.


----------



## SweetEars

KevDzn said:


> Yes, we all know you have the new graphene,  R4Ys and emx500. You been saying it soooooooooo many times. It's getting tiring.


friend i said it many times but  not the same thing cut and paste.


----------



## golov17 (Jan 13, 2018)

j4100 said:


> @golov17  I noticed you bought the V-Master last year and was impressed. Are you still using them without foams? I see the price looks good. How was the budget V-Oldy (if you remember).
> 
> Thanks.


Although I really like their sound, I rarely use them because of the hard cable, with MP foams. V-Oldy is a variation on the OKER DS300 theme. I replaced cable and this just a good buds for casual listening on the move with warm sound


----------



## ostewart

I just posted up my review of the Limited Edition Kinera Earbuds, they are really quite good as I'm not used to earbuds at all:

http://www.soundperfectionreviews.com/2018/01/review-kinera-limited-edition-earbuds.html


----------



## chaiyuta (Jan 13, 2018)

@ostewart : Nice. Your review mostly matches with my impression. Just use different wording. I will try it with iFi Nano iDSD BL.


----------



## doggiemom

SweetEars said:


> friend i said it many times but  not the same thing cut and paste.


Still tiring.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Jan 13, 2018)

This is a brief update of my Yincrow X6 review back in post 26,910. It's not unusual for it to take me anywhere between 1-4 weeks to really grok a new headphone. I have to wait until all the subconscious impressions my brain's been collecting take on enough form to bubble up to my conscious mind in the form of an epiphany. Sometimes I'll realize "wow, this sounds so good," other times I'll see through the hype and trickery and I'll hang them up in disgust.

Do note that I'm going to criticize it on an absolute scale, because doing it any other way would be boring and unhelpful. For the price ($13 US), everything about the X6 is fantastic, it hits way above that price point. Instead, I'm comparing it to anything I own, with the Sennheiser MX985 as the standard. Please keep this context in mind as you read.

 
_The Yincrow X6, Sennheiser MX985, and my Objective2_

As I suspected, the X6 doesn't quite stand up to my initial impressions in some ways, but it does in others. The biggest weakness of the X6 is that it seems to have a hard upper limit on clarity. It sounds veiled with smoothed over detail, but it does it in an inoffensive way. It doesn't _seem_ veiled while I'm listening to it, and details seem "smooth" instead of "smoothed over." Switching to the MX985 (or the Ting, for that matter) makes the X6's limitations starkly obvious.

The X6 isn't without its strengths. Macrodynamics are a clear strength. Bass extension/impact/slam are near TOTL level, though it isn't anything like as tight as I'd prefer. But like the detail thing above, it's bloomy in rather fetching way. I'd note that it's more warm than strictly neutral. The soundstage is indeed as impressive as my first impressions suggest: both wide and tall, very much out-of-head.

Would I still call the X6 mid-fi? I think this is an important question, but my answer might be less  than satisfying because I don't know. I think it depends on a lot of factors: your music preference, your source, what particular aspects of the presentation you value. I hear it as mid-fi, but I can see how others might hear it as strictly entry-level. Fortunately, it's happens to be priced as entry-level 

Another thing to consider is the X6's weaknesses are the kinds that a low impedance amp can help mitigate to a degree. I think the Objective2 does amazing things with dynamic drivers, and it (or other amps like it) will tighten up the bass bloom and sharpen the detail rendition. Even so the X6 is going to be below average at those things, the O2 won't make it sound like a whole new earbud. But it will make an obvious improvement in those areas.

Most of the time, when my "moment of clarity" turns out to be the negative kind, I'll hang up that gear in disgust and it'll be ruined for me forever. That didn't happen with the X6. It's not a very good choice for focused, critical listening, but for any activity where you're doing something else instead of consciously listening, the X6 is outstanding. It will beat the MX985 hands-down for those particular use cases. Due to its fun, bassy sound sig as well as its price point, the X6 is ideal for wearing under my ski helmet. Something brighter or more detailed is likely to be more distracting or fatiguing, and it's too risky to bring anything more expensive to that environment. But the X6 is perfect: it conveys the emotion and energy of the music in a way that's fun and easy to listen to. Despite it's limitations, it's one of the best audio purchases I've ever made


----------



## seanc6441

Guys of those of you who use smartphones (without external dac/amp) with your buds how satisfied are you with it?

I need a single source (neutral-slightly warm, flat reference sound) to use for everyday as a phone and player. LG V20 is great for full size headphones but lacking in low impendance mode under 50 ohms which basically covers all my earbuds.

Dunno what my next step should be, might look into getting a meizu pro phone from china, apparently they are very natural and detailed sounding.


----------



## seanc6441

DJ The Rocket said:


> This is a brief update of my Yincrow X6 review back in post 26,910. It's not unusual for it to take me anywhere between 1-4 weeks to really grok a new headphone. I have to wait until all the subconscious impressions my brain's been collecting take on enough form to bubble up to my conscious mind in the form of an epiphany. Sometimes I'll realize "wow, this sounds so good," other times I'll see through the hype and trickery and I'll hang them up in disgust.
> 
> Do note that I'm going to criticize it on an absolute scale, because doing it any other way would be boring and unhelpful. For the price ($13 US), everything about the X6 is fantastic, it hits way above that price point. Instead, I'm comparing it to anything I own, with the Sennheiser MX985 as the standard. Please keep this context in mind as you read.
> 
> ...


They should include these in the box with smartphones instead of the crap earphones usually included 

If they sell for $3 you can only imagine how cheap these are being produced at haha


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Jan 13, 2018)

I was just talking about this in a PM 

For context, to me a flat, neutral sound with minimal noise and distortion are what I consider "good." I want my DAP to be as transparent as possible. If you prefer a colored sound signature, this post won't be very helpful except to show you what to avoid.

I have a V20 as well, and it can sound as good as anything. I don't really think a separate DAP is necessary, sound-wise. I use other players for things like battery management (i.e. when the V20 is on the charger) or for a smaller footprint. The thing about transparent equipment is that one transparent DAP is just as good as the next, so you don't need to spend more than $50 for TOTL sound quality. There are of course lots of good reasons to buy a DAP, but unless your phone has serious problems, sound quality probably isn't one of them.

The biggest drawback of the V20 is a relatively high output impedance, which causes a slight but definite bloom on low impedance earbuds. This usually necessitates using a more appropriate external amp; however, I actually enjoy the MrZ Ting _more_ out of the V20. The slight bloom adds some body to the Ting's lean sound in that instance.

If you just want more power from the V20 (this doesn't change the output impedance), plug in a headphone extension cable first to get "aux mode." (God I hate the ridiculous lengths this phone forces you to go to._ I hope you always remember to never forget to carey your extension cable! :/_ ) Once that's in the phone, then plug the buds into the extension cable, and _voilà!_ It doesn't have to be a long cable, I made a 3" one using cat5 cable scraps for this purpose. You don't need to bother with a resistive "impedance adapter" thankfully. There's much confusion around how to use them correctly I wouldn't recommend it, and you don't seen to have a need anyway.



seanc6441 said:


> If they sell for $3 you can only imagine how cheap these are being produced at haha



Well it was $13, but your point remains valid. I'd be very surprised if they cost more than $1 to produce, less than half that is plausible, with enough volume


----------



## Nec3

Hey everyone, I'm hoping I'm not asking for too much.

But I'm still on a lookout for appropriate sleeping earbuds. The Edifier H180 and Qian39 are amazing and have a slim profile that lets me roll around on my pillow. But the problem is that they *need* foam covers to sound good. If you pick up my pillow, you'll find at least 3 earbud foam covers underneath, and I want to get rid of this problem. The only earbud I know that can pull this off is the FiiO EM3 and Apple Earpods, but both have really bad durability.

I noticed the Monk Lite has a slim profile, but it seems that it comes with earbud covers... Does it need them to sound good?


----------



## seanc6441

DJ The Rocket said:


> I was just talking about this in a PM
> 
> For context, to me a flat, neutral sound with minimal noise and distortion are what I consider "good." I want my DAP to be as transparent as possible. If you prefer a colored sound signature, this post won't be very helpful except to show you what to avoid.
> 
> ...


I tried the aux mode/high impendance mode and I think any improvements in SQ is probably more noticeable on headphones where more power is a welcome addition to better sound. The only real difference I noticed on my earbuds is a slightly warmer signature (more neutral than cold like it was in ‘normal’ low impendance mode) and a slightly more solid low end. But to be honest the SQ increase doesn’t match what others described as a night and day difference experienced with headphones.

The V20 in normal mode isn’t without its faults imo. The lower mids don’t provide much weight behind them. This seems to be a common trait with sabre dacs and i’ve experienced it with two of them now. In my opinion sacrificing midrange body for clarity is not a good deal. I’m looking for both maybe i’m asking for too much though.

Once I use Aux/High impendance mode this improves a little. If I turn on snapdragon EQ this improves even more, especially with bass boost on at 13% the low end and mid bass have more authority without ever becoming muddy.

I really believe there must be a better phone out there for iems/earbuds than the v20. As you say it makes you jump through hoops just to achieve respectable SQ, add to that I couldn’t unlock my version and rooting my variant would be a very difficult task. I think I’ll keep my search going and sell my v20.

I’ve heard the Meizu phones sound more natural, hoping that is true and I might look into them. Also I’m hoping for a wider soundstage than the default v20 configuration which is actually pretty narrow and forward, but that’s fixable with a 3% boost to ‘surround’ in the EQ.


----------



## seanc6441

Nec3 said:


> Hey everyone, I'm hoping I'm not asking for too much.
> 
> But I'm still on a lookout for appropriate sleeping earbuds. The Edifier H180 and Qian39 are amazing and have a slim profile that lets me roll around on my pillow. But the problem is that they *need* foam covers to sound good. If you pick up my pillow, you'll find at least 3 earbud foam covers underneath, and I want to get rid of this problem. The only earbud I know that can pull this off is the FiiO EM3 and Apple Earpods, but both have really bad durability.
> 
> I noticed the Monk Lite has a slim profile, but it seems that it comes with earbud covers... Does it need them to sound good?


If the monk plus is anything to go buy youcan get away without foams to sound good. Remember monks sound best with VE thin foams which barely alter the signature so your best bet it that OR the DSQM pk2s.

Pk2s is very smooth and soft treble, enough bass to allow listening without foams to not be a big issue, and best yet it’s front cover is extremely smooth and curved so it’ll be very comfortable.

Actually I suggest the pk2s to you now after listening without foams, very comfortable and not painful listening at all. They actually sound pretty epic without foams... interesting. Slightly bass light but not very!


----------



## Nec3

seanc6441 said:


> If the monk plus is anything to go buy youcan get away without foams to sound good. Remember monks sound best with VE thin foams which barely alter the signature so your best bet it that OR the DSQM pk2s.
> 
> Pk2s is very smooth and soft treble, enough bass to allow listening without foams to not be a big issue, and best yet it’s front cover is extremely smooth and curved so it’ll be very comfortable.
> 
> Actually I suggest the pk2s to you now after listening without foams, very comfortable and not painful listening at all. They actually sound pretty epic without foams... interesting. Slightly bass light but not very!



My apologies, I should have mentioned my budget is somewhere in the <$30 area.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Jan 13, 2018)

It sounds like you have very specific needs in a phone, good luck with that 

Maybe you'd be best served with whatever cheap phone you can live with and spending the diff on an OTG DAC/amp that you can velcro to the case?

My main DAP is a used iPhone 4s I picked up for cheap, and I don't think it's possible to have better sound in a phone, certainly not _significantly_ better. I like Apple's hardware, but their software makes operating the V20 seem rational in comparison, and their non-expandable memory policy makes Jim Gibbons seem like a generous and giving person.

Oh, and what is this Snapdragon EQ you mention?


----------



## seanc6441

@Nec3 here’s the link


Nec3 said:


> My apologies, I should have mentioned my budget is somewhere in the <$30 area.




http://s.aliexpress.com/zquiMFRV Nicehck DSQM PK2S is around $18. If you EQ down the upper mids and treble in a curve it sounds really balanced and airy, but still so smooth. Highly recommend it without foams actually now that I have it in my ear lol


----------



## seanc6441

DJ The Rocket said:


> It sounds like you have very specific needs in a phone, good luck with that
> 
> Maybe you'd be best served with whatever cheap phone you can live with and spending the diff on an OTG DAC/amp that you can velcro to the case?
> 
> My main DAP is a used iPhone 4s I picked up for cheap, and I don't think it's possible to have better sound in a phone, certainly not _significantly_ better. I like Apple's hardware, but their software makes operating the V20 seem rational in comparison, and their non-expandable memory policy makes Jim Gibbons seem like a generous and giving person.


That’s what I was told when I asked in the audiophile smartphone thread lol. IDK is asking for a natural, flat response and a detailed open stage too much. Seems like most of these phones are either great once you go above 50 ohms or have a ‘fun’ signature but thing thing is I like my sources natural/neutral (my definition of natural is slightly warmer than neutral) and then my earbuds can all sound as intended whether it’s linear and more reference like the shozy bk and clean and neutral and dynamic like the penon bs1 or even ‘fun’ like the cygnus.

Wish I could just have all these phones in hand to test for 5 minutes but with these being asian brands I’d be lucky to see any of them in stores for sale... even the v10/20/30.


----------



## Narayan23

Sean, I have a rooted Galaxy S4 and use Viper4Android and Neutron Music Player, I tweaked the settings to my liking and never felt the need for more, granted I only use earbuds and IEM´s with it.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 13, 2018)

Narayan23 said:


> Sean, I have a rooted Galaxy S4 and use Viper4Android and Neutron Music Player, I tweaked the settings to my liking and never felt the need for more, granted I only use earbuds and IEM´s with it.


Yes I heard very good things about V4A... I need an easily rooted phone now with good specs as Im willing to spend abit more for better audio as this will be my home and portable device.

Except I’d be using spotify as I don’t own much flac/high quality audio files. I enjoy using spotify a lot though.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Jan 13, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> IDK is asking for a natural, flat response and a detailed open stage too much.



Not at all, but then I'd describe the V20/iPhone 4s as having achieved that. To improve from there I think you really need to go to external audio gears. 

The V10 is a significant step backwards from the V20 sq, I've had both. The V10 is vastly superior than the V20 for OTG audio, but then the V10 is likely to bootloop and brick itself at any arbitrary time, so I wouldn't recommend one no matter how it sounds


----------



## seanc6441

DJ The Rocket said:


> Not at all, but then I'd describe the V20/iPhone 4s as having achieved that. To improve from there I think you really need to go to external audio gears.
> 
> The V10 is a significant step backwards from the V20 sq, I've had both. The V10 is vastly superior than the V20 for OTG audio, but then the V10 is likely to bootloop and brick itself at any arbitrary time, so I wouldn't recommend one no matter how it sounds


No I do like the V20’s balance but don’t you find it very cold and somewhat thin sounding in the name of pushing detail? It made my penon bs1 sound like water...

Maybe I just prefer a lush thick midrange over a lean clear one. For example my iphone 6s whilst lacking dynamics and overal detail has a noticeably better midrange body to it. There is authority behind the signature im just not getting from the V20 with extensive tweaking to the EQ.

Oh btw my v20 is non B&O tuned version, how about yours?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 13, 2018)

@Nec3 just EQed the pk2s in spotify quickly and it sounds wonderfully natural and clear without foams.




as you can see you really need to EQ down the midrange and treble but leave a slight raise at the end as this earbud is very polite in the treble.


----------



## gazzington

Why not get a newer iphone if you liked iphone 6?




seanc6441 said:


> No I do like the V20’s balance but don’t you find it very cold and somewhat thin sounding in the name of pushing detail? It made my penon bs1 sound like water...
> 
> Maybe I just prefer a lush thick midrange over a lean clear one. For example my iphone 6s whilst lacking dynamics and overal detail has a noticeably better midrange body to it. There is authority behind the signature im just not getting from the V20 with extensive tweaking to the EQ.
> 
> Oh btw my v20 is non B&O tuned version, how about yours?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 13, 2018)

DJ The Rocket said:


> It sounds like you have very specific needs in a phone, good luck with that
> 
> Maybe you'd be best served with whatever cheap phone you can live with and spending the diff on an OTG DAC/amp that you can velcro to the case?
> 
> ...



The 4s was incredibly impressive for the time, the 6s has a similar sound I doubt there’s much difference between the two (anything between them like 5/5s/6 is thinner and less dynamic imo)

But i think what I’m looking for is better separation and soundstage and a slightly more detailed sound than my 6s without using any external dacs/amps which i found to be a pain to use.

Some V20’s have snapdragon branded EQ when you try to go into EQ via spotify or google play music. It’s a crappy EQ for adjusting frequencies and it’s buggy but the bass boost and soundstage tuning are really effective and subtle. So I use it for that!

If you try to actually tune the Equaliser itself it messing with the audio output volume and sounds WORSE than having the EQ off.

But if you leave the EQ on ‘flat’ preset and just change the bass and surround boost you can get added bass and a wider stage.

Also just turning the EQ on seems to drastically change the tonality from cold to slightly warm... it’s all very odd with this LG v20 lol


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 13, 2018)

gazzington said:


> Why not get a newer iphone if you liked iphone 6?


I liked the tonality of the 6s but found other aspects lacking. It’s good but not ‘midrange DAP’ good.

I really really do not want to purchase a separate DAP and phone as you can tell


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> really really do not want to purchase a separate DAP and phone as you can tell



Me neither... but I am the odd one.  I have several DAPs and NO phone!  LOL  I do not wish to be annoyed when I am listening to music 

...well... I do have a land line, a skype phone, an ipad , an android tablet, a laptop and a PC..all the necessities.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 13, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Me neither... but I am the odd one.  I have several DAPs and NO phone!  LOL  I do not wish to be annoyed when I am listening to music
> 
> ...well... I do have a land line, a skype phone, an ipad , an android tablet, a laptop and a PC..all the necessities.



I have a phone, another phone now (v20), a laptop, a desktop and other devices have come and gone lol.

I’m very fussy until I have something that I consider right for my need then I’ll be content with it for ages haha.

I’m not giving up my search for the perfect audio phone just yet!


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> I’m very fussy until I have something that I consider right for my need then I’ll be content with it for ages haha.



Before being corrupted by headfi, I used to find something that was right...and be content for ages...without continuing to look at other things.  

None of this is normal...and we are all enablers.  Most of us anyway.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Before being corrupted by headfi, I used to find something that was right...and be content for ages...without continuing to look at other things.
> 
> None of this is normal...and we are all enablers.  Most of us anyway.



This woman speaks the truth^

It’s only a matter of time before we will need to create an ‘earbud support group’ to help those of us that have gone over the edge!


----------



## B9Scrambler

Damn these things look good.


----------



## waynes world (Jan 14, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> I liked the tonality of the 6s but found other aspects lacking. It’s good but not ‘midrange DAP’ good.
> 
> I really really do not want to purchase a separate DAP and phone as you can tell



Just get the Earstudio Bluetooth receiver 

I know you don't want a separate dap or dac, but these things are so small (and clipable) that they are not much bother at all. And they sound great. And are cheap. And are controlled by your phone. And you never have to worry about the sq of your phone again. Fwiw!



waynes world said:


> You should consider something like this (for $79):
> *EarStudio: World's first studio-quality Bluetooth receiver*
> https://www.ear-studio.com/
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/radsone-earstudio.867366/


----------



## noknok23 (Jan 14, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> In my opinion sacrificing midrange body for clarity is not a good deal. I’m looking for both maybe i’m asking for too much though.


from my experience, the only way currently to find sound of such quality (bodily, musical AND very rich, detailed) can only be possible by reaching the top end. In any way you will have to compromise or wait for a new generation of devices that could eventually works.

I am thinking about sony nw wm1z -- wich is highly expensive and doesnt offer spotify but may have the sound you are looking for.
You could also take a look at the Hiby R6, its biggest strenght is bleeding edge equalizer with the fastest android interface available at the moment for a DAP. you could use spotify and tune the sound to your liking. it may fits your need.


----------



## chaiyuta

Only Vivo Xplay 6 is the best audiophile phone for me. Here is review. By the way, I heard that XPlay7 is going to launch around March or April.


----------



## dennisopk

chaiyuta said:


> Only Vivo Xplay 6 is the best audiophile phone for me. Here is review. By the way, I heard that XPlay7 is going to launch around March or April.


Careful here after a few system updates I found that the goggle play store is missing from the vivo app download. My Vivo Xplay 5 don't support Tidal in the hifi mode.  Spotify, hiby, poweramps these are supported. Most of the original  apps are in Chinese. So far I am happy with the sound it can drive 300ohm bud no problem.and its sound good. No need to add an amp or need to buy a DAP for travelling use.


----------



## Karl2009

I would like to give me a new earbuds. I am thinking of Yincrow X6 or EMXs 500.
Are them an upgrade of EMX 500? If you have listen both, which do you prefer? Any other recommendation?


----------



## XP_98 (Jan 14, 2018)

j4100 said:


> Couple of photos to compare the Toneking ROS1 with some other buds. Top photo is Qian 69, Seahf F150C, and NiceHCK Graphene. Lower pic is Seahf and ROS1. As you can see, its a fair bit smaller. Good news for those who have trouble with some of the larger buds. Haven't listened yet, but will do at the weekend.


J4100 having shown the pictures of size comparison between the ROS1 and three other earbuds, can someone tell if the Penon Audio BS1 experience are bigger or same size as ROS1 ?


----------



## chaiyuta

@XP_98 : Penon BS1 is bigger.


----------



## Samuel Lawiet

hi earbudlovers, i'm searching for earbud under $15 with best detail(micro detail) and enough bass impact for hearing instruments sounds...


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 14, 2018)

XP_98 said:


> J4100 having shown the pictures of size comparison between the ROS1 and three other earbuds, can someone tell if the Penon Audio BS1 experience are bigger or same size as ROS1 ?


Just so you know it’s the BS1 official that is highly praised, the experience is merely decent for the price. Sometimes people forget to mention the difference and you may not be aware that they are completely different earbuds.



chaiyuta said:


> Only Vivo Xplay 6 is the best audiophile phone for me. Here is review. By the way, I heard that XPlay7 is going to launch around March or April.


I’ve heard about the x play6 thanks it seems to rank up there with the LG V series and Meizu phones while also being a good general use phone too.

As for DAP’s I know the high end stuff is probably what I’m imagining to hear but honestly I know if the iphone 6s can have full body and good tonality then surely some ofter phone can best that with bigger stage, separation and detail but the same signature.

I think some people just love the clear detailed sound of V20 (apperantly xplay6 is similar?) and don’t really focus on the body or weight behind the signature but it’s something I notice first with new earbuds/sources and I prefer it immensely.

Again if an old iphone 6s can achieve it to some extent I expect there is a new phone out there to better it and I just need to find it.


----------



## chinmie

Samuel Lawiet said:


> hi earbudlovers, i'm searching for earbud under $15 with best detail(micro detail) and enough bass impact for hearing instruments sounds...


Edifier H185, EMX500, RY4S, Toneking TP16


----------



## seanc6441

Samuel Lawiet said:


> hi earbudlovers, i'm searching for earbud under $15 with best detail(micro detail) and enough bass impact for hearing instruments sounds...


Stretch your budget to $20 and you can get a moondrop nameless. Might be down your street in terms of details and signature.


----------



## phthora

The Nameless is a very impressive earbud for the price.


----------



## gazzington

Moon drop nameless is what’s your after.


----------



## ClieOS (Jan 14, 2018)

Here is some comparison I wrote for White Bell (*White Ling), Black Bell (*Black Ling) and Poseidon, intended for someplace else but I guess some of us might be interested in reading them as well:



> I got my hands on a couple of K's earbuds over the last few years and they tend to share a similar house sound. Simply put, they more or less all have 'deep bass, sweet mid, smooth high and open soundstage'. All and all they are warm sounding earbuds that are good for mainstream vocal music, focusing on musicality rather than accuracy/details. When it comes to mainstream music, they can sound excellent, especially on conveying emotion, as long as the listener isn't looking for an analytical sound. This also means they are not the best choice for instruments or classical music. When it comes to White and Black Bell or Poseidon, the above still applies. Here is, however, what they are different in - White Bell is by far the most sensitive to how you wear it. While White and Black Bell share the same housing design, White's particular tuning tends to sound a bit hallow and distance if you get a loose fit. The shiny and smooth plated surface and the small housing really doesn't help to get a really good seal, even though it is quite comfortable. I do strongly recommend using foam, particularly donut or multi-holes variant, in order to get the rather full sounding White.to reveal itself. When you get it right, White will have the most upfront mid and the smallest soundstage (though not actually small) of all three of the newer K's, making it the most vocal-centric of the bunch and great for pop and rock. Black, on the other hand, doesn't care as much about fitting as White (though I still recommend donut or multi-holes foam) since its tuning doesn't highlight any particular frequency like the White, and tends to sound more consistent across the whole range with a wider soundstage and thus making it more versatile when it comes to different music genre. While Black's mid might not be as sweet as White, the overall balance is better. The biggest difference I have felt between the two is that White is more energetic where Black is more mature sounding. Poseidon, in comparison, is really more of a mid-point between the two, striking a really good balance while having the best soundstage and musicality of the three. In a way, Poseidon almost sounds like a full size can.
> 
> With this kind of high price tag, talking about price/performance ratio often becomes a moot point. You will definitely find better value in cheaper (though lesser sounding) options than these earbuds. Nonetheless, White and Black are still overall in and around the same high level of SQ as K's previous flagship, the 500ohm Samsara, making them still competitive over the other flagships / second tier. Poseidon, on the other hand, is truly among the best of the best out there. Whether it will suit a person is, however, more than just SQ, but also a preference in music and taste. For example, Liebesleid still excels in female vocal and detail where Poseidon holds more advantage over male vocal, etc.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Jan 14, 2018)

@mbwilson111 You were saying a while back you had small ears--have you tried the MrZ Ting? They're the smallest I've tried yet. They sit so comfortably and securely in my ears that I'll forget and think I'm wearing IEMs 

I'm planning on a more thorough review, but I might not get to it depending on how entertaining today's NFL playoff games are. I like the Ting's sound quite a bit. They were way too lean for me even with full VE foams, but with full Heigi foams they sound flat/neutral/natural with a full-bodied, well textured bass. MrZ must have tuned them with thicker ones in mind. Their bass punch/slam is above average--if not up to the level of the Yincrow X6--but I find the Ting's increased clarity/texture/detail to be well worth the tradeoff. 

They cost 5.3x more than the x6 but are "only" 2.8x better sounding 

Looks like the Jaguars are up 21-0 so I might write this review today after all! 

I'm considering the Tings to be just one tier below the MX985 in sound for now, and several tiers above anything else in comfort


----------



## DJ The Rocket

ClieOS said:


> _focusing on musicality rather than accuracy/details_.



What a great line! I wish I could think like that. This is the "positive" take I'd have written about the X6 if I could have. 

There's two sides to that foam, of course. The "negative" take on the X6 might be _not especially technically proficient,_ lol.


----------



## mbwilson111

DJ The Rocket said:


> What a great line! I wish I could think like that. This is the "positive" take I'd have written about the X6 if I could have.
> 
> There's two sides to that foam, of course. The "negative" take on the X6 might be _not especially technically proficient,_ lol.



It appears that my red Yincrow X6 will be delivered tomorrow.  Meanwhile my Toneking ROS1 and my Monk Lite have been shipped.  AND today Amazon delivered a Sennheiser MX 375.  Not sure how THAT happened. 



DJ The Rocket said:


> @mbwilson111 You were saying a while back you had small ears--have you tried the MrZ Ting? They're the smallest I've tried yet. They sit so comfortably and securely in my ears that I'll forget and think I'm wearing IEMs



...and now you want me to add another to the list.   Uhoh. That one costs way more than any of my others.  You do realize that I have stopped buying...it was in my signature ...4 earbuds ago...

I will be interested in your review.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

mbwilson111 said:


> ...and now you want me to add another to the list. Uhoh



FWIW I know you're not serious here  

All I _want_ you to do is have good intel! Anyway the Ting is a couple of pricing tiers higher than the other buds you're looking at I think. I hate money as much as the next guy, but I'm happy letting you throw away your own money for stuff you don't need at your own pace :$ :$  :$ :$


----------



## mbwilson111

DJ The Rocket said:


> but I'm happy letting you throw away your own money for stuff you don't need at your own pace :$ :$  :$ :$



I think my husband just ordered the Ting for me...from Penon. A grey one (I have enough red). That will truly be the last one.  For real.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Jan 14, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I think my husband just ordered the Ting for me...from Penon. A grey one (I have enough red). That will truly be the last one.  For real.



That's awesome, my gf couldn't care less about this stuff. Makes her a good helper for blind testing though, single blind is just as good as double blind, if your helper doesn't know or care what's what 

I would strongly recommend Heigi or Feng full foams with the Ting, but most people on this thread have them already I'd guess


----------



## Saoshyant

@mbwilson111 What do you think of the 375?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 14, 2018)

Saoshyant said:


> @mbwilson111 What do you think of the 375?



The MX375 only arrived 10 hours ago!  Great fit.  They stayed in my ears for 6 - 7 hours if that says anything....until my husband got home from work. I have left them to burn in.  Albums that I know well sounded great.  Maybe it's just that I have great music   I was using them straight out of my Cayin N3.dap.



DJ The Rocket said:


> I would strongly recommend Heigi or Feng full foams with the Ting, but most people on this thread have them already I'd guess



I don't but there might be some in the house.  I never planned to get hooked on buds ...too many memories of the horrble things that came free with stuff years ago but somehow my husband made me willing to try them.  We both ordered a few things during one of the sales.  Having two headfiers in one house can be dangerous.

I started with a monk+


----------



## DJ The Rocket




----------



## DJ The Rocket




----------



## audio123 (Jan 15, 2018)

I saw there are questions on the BGVP DX3. Here is my review on the BGVP DX3 

https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/01/11/bgvp-dx3/

I sincerely hope my review will be useful.

Appreciate it and thanks for taking the time to read the review!






Do like my FB page for the latest update, https://www.facebook.com/audio123reviews


----------



## -rowan-

Thanks for the responses. Never let it be said that Headfi is only ever bad for one's wallet - you guys have helped put the brakes on my Masya/Mojito itch, at least for a while 
I wasn't expecting a bud that could compare to a full Stax system, maybe just a baby Stax, but that level of detail is so addictive I guess I'll just have to deal with its lack of portability. (I'm currently on the road, and packed 4 earphones including the SR-002 for a 10-day trip so I obviously managed to find space for it - and then some.)
I have a white cable K's 64 somewhere at home. I have a vague recollection of good detail but slightly congested mids but I'll need to go listen to that one again. I've tried looking for comparisons to the 300 and 500 but haven't come across many yet. 
And I guess cold tonality doesn't bother me - the ER4S is one of my long-time go-to IEMs and remains my favourite of the Etymotic pack.



HungryPanda said:


> Have the masya but to be honest have never heard a bud to compare to my Stax system, not in the same universe I'm afraid





seanc6441 said:


> You’ll crave more detail than the Masya, Mojito maybe although I do not own it. Or check out the new K’s flagship earbuds.





chaiyuta said:


> I have no experience on Stax SR-002, so my answer might not direct to your point. I ever tried both Masya and Mojito. After back and forth critical listenning, personally I prefer Mojito so far. Though there are many people who prefer Masya over Mojito as well. Many said Mojito is too cold tonality for them.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 15, 2018)

-rowan- said:


> Thanks for the responses. Never let it be said that Headfi is only ever bad for one's wallet - you guys have helped put the brakes on my Masya/Mojito itch, at least for a while
> I wasn't expecting a bud that could compare to a full Stax system, maybe just a baby Stax, but that level of detail is so addictive I guess I'll just have to deal with its lack of portability. (I'm currently on the road, and packed 4 earphones including the SR-002 for a 10-day trip so I obviously managed to find space for it - and then some.)
> I have a white cable K's 64 somewhere at home. I have a vague recollection of good detail but slightly congested mids but I'll need to go listen to that one again. I've tried looking for comparisons to the 300 and 500 but haven't come across many yet.
> And I guess cold tonality doesn't bother me - the ER4S is one of my long-time go-to IEMs and remains my favourite of the Etymotic pack.


Don't let that put you off earbuds. I'm sure stax is on another level to most headphones let alone earbuds. But TOTL earbuds like Rose Mojtio/Moondrop Liebsleid or the slight less pricy shozy BK I own sound phenomenal for the size of them.

I think they are all sold out but for $99 you can get an excellent sounding penon bs1 offical which has very good detail for the price and you won't be breaking the bank. Other options are more expensive and I think you need to spend around $150+ to best this earbud as it sounds pretty close and compareable to my shozy BK.

IDK what a stax sounds like only what I've heard in opinions but I'd be surprised if there wasn't a few earbuds out there in different price ranges that will be very pleasing for the portability and sound they produce in relation to their cost 

Even for someone with TOTL headphones.


----------



## -rowan-

seanc6441 said:


> Don't let that put you off earbuds. I'm sure stax is on another level to most headphones let alone earbuds. But TOTL earbuds like Rose Mojtio/Moondrop Liebsleid or the slight less pricy shozy BK I own sound phenomenal for the size of them.
> 
> I think they are all sold out but for $99 you can get an excellent sounding penon bs1 offical which has very good detail for the price and you won't be breaking the bank. Other options are more expensive and I think you need to spend around $150+ to best this earbud as it sounds pretty close and compareable to my shozy BK.
> 
> ...



Oh believe me, there will be more earbuds passing through here - it's not so easy as that  I've been slowly exploring earbuds once again after having used mainly IEMs and headphones for some time now - they're just so much easier on the poor old ears (physically, I mean) and they do soundstage in a way that in-ears struggle to achieve. And dang, you've laid out some pretty tempting options 

And I'm a cheap basket, really - I like how those TOTL headphones sound, obviously, but can't afford to go *too* far down that rabbit hole...


----------



## seanc6441

-rowan- said:


> Oh believe me, there will be more earbuds passing through here - it's not so easy as that  I've been slowly exploring earbuds once again after having used mainly IEMs and headphones for some time now - they're just so much easier on the poor old ears (physically, I mean) and they do soundstage in a way that in-ears struggle to achieve. And dang, you've laid out some pretty tempting options
> 
> And I'm a cheap basket, really - I like how those TOTL headphones sound, obviously, but can't afford to go *too* far down that rabbit hole...


Then the bs1 official sounds perfect for you! $99 is a sweet spot for price to performance with this bud. It’s really impressive for the price! If you enjoy neutral and smooth balanced signature that is.


----------



## XP_98 (Jan 15, 2018)

I think it would be useful, besides the SQ, to be able to compare the size of earbuds. As you can not change tips like IEMs, this is an important criteria (at least for me).
A lot of reviews indicate "small", "comfortable", but not the measured size...


----------



## silverfishla (Jan 15, 2018)

-rowan- said:


> Thanks for the responses. Never let it be said that Headfi is only ever bad for one's wallet - you guys have helped put the brakes on my Masya/Mojito itch, at least for a while
> I wasn't expecting a bud that could compare to a full Stax system, maybe just a baby Stax, but that level of detail is so addictive I guess I'll just have to deal with its lack of portability. (I'm currently on the road, and packed 4 earphones including the SR-002 for a 10-day trip so I obviously managed to find space for it - and then some.)
> I have a white cable K's 64 somewhere at home. I have a vague recollection of good detail but slightly congested mids but I'll need to go listen to that one again. I've tried looking for comparisons to the 300 and 500 but haven't come across many yet.
> And I guess cold tonality doesn't bother me - the ER4S is one of my long-time go-to IEMs and remains my favourite of the Etymotic pack.


If you are willing to work with the fit, don't pass up the Rose Mojito.  I was just listening to it last night on my Shanling M3s in balanced mode and was engulfed by it's lush detail.  I've had it for over a year now, and it is still my best sounding pair of earbuds.  Better than Masya (although that one is good).  Mojito is better all around.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 15, 2018)

XP_98 said:


> I think it would be useful, besides the SQ, to be able to compare the size of earbuds. As you can not change tips like IEMs, this is an important criteria.
> A lot of reviews indicate "small", "comfortable", but not the measured size...





silverfishla said:


> If you are willing to work with the fit, don't pass up the Rose Mojito.  I was just listening to it last night on my Shanling M3 in balanced mode and was engulfed by it's lush detail.  I've had it for over a year now, and it is still my best sounding pair of earbuds.  Better than Masya (although that one is good).  Mojito is better all around.


Some say it’s warm some say it’s cold. It’s probably very transparent and possibly neutral  and relies on the source for overall tonality. The shozy bk is abit like this too.

Mojito looks amazing I really wanna hear it. That, the Moondrop liebsleid and the new K’s poseidon... I can only dream 

@ClieOS  will know the difference and which has the best details. If you are lucky he will grace you with his presence lol


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm totally rocking to the new Joe Satriani album with the BGVP DX3's right now. These are very good earbuds


----------



## j4100

Thanks to a Head-Fi sale thread, I'm currently grooving to Dark Star's Twenty Twenty Sound album with my Blox B320 (FiiO X5ii->Mojo). A few budget buds in the bag as well.


----------



## Majin

Looking at some TOTL earbuds with detachable cable. So far I got Rose Masya and Ourart on my list, did i miss any other good value TOTL buds?


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Jan 15, 2018)

audio123 said:


> I saw there are questions on the BGVP DX3. Here is my review on the BGVP DX3 ￼
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Can I offer some constructive criticism? You obviously put some real effort into this and it shows in your thoroughness. But I had trouble taking advantage of your hard work because there wasn't much context to your impressions. The comparisons are a start, the BS1 is a good standard to compare against, but I haven't even heard *of* the other one you used. Don't necessarily limit yourself by only comparing to other earbuds, it's okay to include full size headphones too if you have some that can help illustrate a point.

What kind of foams did you use? What sources did you try, and did it make any difference? What kind of music do you listen to and what sound signature do you prefer?

You did all the most difficult parts already, this last bit should just help tie everything together!




-rowan- said:


> I wasn't expecting a bud that could compare to a full Stax system, maybe just a baby Stax, but that level of detail is so addictive I guess I'll just have to deal with its lack of portability



Fellow Stax guy here. I haven't heard the SR-002/003, but I think you're looking more for the quality level you're used to more than any one kind of signature? And you're defining that Stax quality mostly by its clarity and accurate detail? This is a tough one.

I had the same thought about the Mojito being a possibility, and despite the advice we've both received I'd still like to give one a try, it's just not my highest priority anymore. I'm not sure about the $260 price tag either, I bought a pair of L300's last week for just $40 more.

The problem with looking for an earbud form factor is you're limited to dynamic drivers--experimental hybrid platforms like the Dunu Alpha notwithstanding--and a miniature dynamic driver capable of the performance you're after doesn't currently exist. Big kudos to Rose though, I think they're moving in that direction. Perhaps they'll have a breakthrough with the Mojito's successor. I hope they call it the Rose Hangover, because what else follows a mojito?  

Anyway it's not totally hopeless. Is there a reason you haven't tried an iSine20? I have an unrelated bone to pick with Audeze so I'm not stoked to recommend them, but the '20 may well be the best solution for you. I thought the iSine20 outperformed most mid-range full-size planar magnetic cans, including the LCD2 and HE500. It couldn't beat top of the range cans like the Alpha Prime, but it held its own. The $2.5k LCDi4 is the only step up in quality I know of if the iSine20 doesn't cut it for you. I'd imagine so at least (haven't actually heard an LCDi4).

If you can stand the canalphone style nozzle, the iSines are even less isolating than earbuds, and with a good source/amp they do perform up to or almost uo to the level you're looking for, and I can't think of anything else that comes close.

If you really want to stick with earbuds for whatever reasons, I'll often listen to my Sennheiser MX985 over my Stax system, even with it sitting there on the table next to me. The 985 is not as technically capable as an e-stat, but it's plenty capable in its own right. 985s aren't exactly available to purchase though, but for $70 a MrZ Ting with Heigi full foams will get you 95% of an MX985's sound. The Ting's bass doesn't go down quite as low, nor is it quite as articulate at frequency extremes the 985 handles effortlessly. I think most people won't care about or possibly even notice that last 5%. You specifically will certainly notice and care, but I don't think it's anything that would prevent you from getting immense enjoyment out of them.




seanc6441 said:


> Then the bs1 official sounds perfect for you! $99 is a sweet spot for price to performance with this bud. It’s really impressive for the price! If you enjoy neutral and smooth balanced signature that is.



I've never heard a BS1, are you familiar enough with the Ting to compare the two? They're in the same price and hopefully performance categories, from the looks of it


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 15, 2018)

DJ The Rocket said:


> Can I offer some constructive criticism? You obviously put some real effort into this and it shows in your thoroughness. But I had trouble taking advantage of your hard work because there wasn't much context to your impressions. The comparisons are a start, the BS1 is a good standard to compare against, but I haven't even heard *of* the other one you used. Don't necessarily limit yourself by only comparing to other earbuds, it's okay to include full size headphones too if you have some that can help illustrate a point.
> 
> What kind of foams did you use? What sources did you try, and did it make any difference? What kind of music do you listen to and what sound signature do you prefer?
> 
> ...


I’m not familiar with the ting (only the tomahawk) but I have the Shozy BK and Masya and the BS1 is definitely towards the BK in terms of detail. It’s got ‘very good’ detailing and I think the next step up is earbuds like the mojito which cost over twice as much.

Really the bs1 is a very well priced earbud at $99 hence why I’d recommend it to anyone looking to taste ‘TOTL’ quality without breaking the bank. I personally think it is premium SQ whereas the Rose Masya falls slightly short on overall detail and chooses smoothness and clarity over texture and resolution whereas the bs1 has moderate texture (not as much as bk) but quite a good resolution which is so close to the BK whilst also retaining a smooth sound and medium full midrange. It’s all round very proficient.

As for your suggestion to Audio123 to compare earbuds to headphones I mostly disagree with it on the basis that both are different beasts entirely and the price-performance or performance ceiling doesn’t match up so well.

However if you were to say the signature reminds me of X headphone i’d be cool with that, as long as it’s not a comparison.

That’s only my opinion anyway.


----------



## Saoshyant (Jan 15, 2018)

Majin said:


> Looking at some TOTL earbuds with detachable cable. So far I got Rose Masya and Ourart on my list, did i miss any other good value TOTL buds?



Masya, Mojito, Yinman 600, Svara L, Ourart, DK Song are some detachable options.


----------



## seanc6441

Saoshyant said:


> Masya, Mojito, Yinman 600, Svara L, Ourart, DK Song are some detachable options.


nicehck ebx too


----------



## dennisopk

Saoshyant said:


> Masya, Mojito, Yinman 600, Svara L, Ourart, DK Song are some detachable options.


I believe Y2018 China manufacturers will be jumping into making more earbud with MMCX sockets and more Portable Balance Amps ( budget type) to boost their sales.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Jan 15, 2018)

j4100 said:


> Thanks to a *Head-Fi sale thread*, I'm currently grooving to Dark Star's Twenty Twenty Sound album with my *Blox B320* (FiiO X5ii->Mojo). A few budget buds in the bag as well.



!!!!!

How did you find a Blox! I've been looking for some to try for forever! I keep forgetting to bump my WTB Blox post due to lack of response, and it keeps falling way behind everything else :/

I don't know anything about the B320 though. 

On the bright side I'm falling more and more in love with this Ting. It sounds great with EDM; this Lukas Endhardt set is downloadable as a .wav with very high sound quality. The whole thing is awesome but the second half is full of deep sub-bass along with all sorts of vocals and out-of-phase trebley elements that really show you how wide your soundstage can go


----------



## SweetEars

can someone tell me is there a difference in the emx500 when u use donut foams vs the full foams


----------



## SweetEars

https://penonaudio.com/bs1-experience-ver.-earbud.html

https://penon-official.com/product/bs1-official-version/

there are 2 versions which to get?


----------



## DJ The Rocket

I'd add the MrZ Ting to the list of TOTL earbuds, but I'd also want to clarify:  there's TOTL, and then there's TOTL. With me so far? 

The MX985 is what I might call "TRUE TOTL." The Ting is "2ND TOTL" or something, and I _assume_ the BS1, Masya, everything else around $100 etc. are as well, although I haven't heard any of them yet. 

Whatever it is, I'm really happy with the Ting's sound quality, and it's only $70. My next purchase is going to be the Svara-L at a similar price  



seanc6441 said:


> However if you were to say the signature reminds me of X headphone i’d be cool with that, as long as it’s not a comparison.



That's more like what I meant. "The mids are recessed to about DT880 levels",  that kind of thing.


----------



## rkw

SweetEars said:


> https://penonaudio.com/bs1-experience-ver.-earbud.html
> 
> https://penon-official.com/product/bs1-official-version/
> 
> there are 2 versions which to get?


It comes down to how much you are willing to spend for more performance. They have been discussed extensively in the thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/search/5559036/?q=bs1&t=post&o=date&c[thread]=441400


----------



## mundixx

rkw said:


> It comes down to how much you are willing to spend for more performance. They have been discussed extensively in the thread:
> https://www.head-fi.org/search/5559036/?q=bs1&t=post&o=date&c[thread]=441400



there might not be much of a choice here, as the Experience version is already sold out.


----------



## j4100

DJ The Rocket said:


> !!!!!
> 
> How did you find a Blox!
> 
> I don't know anything about the B320 though.



By searching the sale thread for earbuds. I went back 6 months then asked a couple of users if the buds were still fore sale, since a lot of people don't mark them as sold. I was in luck here.

The B320 is no TM7, but I was still playing music way after my bedtime


----------



## gazzington

I have only been into earbuds for the last two years and I keep seeing references to mx985s. Were these very good earphones and can you still get them?


----------



## chinmie

gazzington said:


> I have only been into earbuds for the last two years and I keep seeing references to mx985s. Were these very good earphones and can you still get them?



it's a great earbuds, but has discontinued and a little hard to find. there are other earbuds nowadays in the same class to the mx985 (or even surpasses it in some categories) that are readily available.


----------



## chaiyuta

XP_98 said:


> I think it would be useful, besides the SQ, to be able to compare the size of earbuds. As you can not change tips like IEMs, this is an important criteria (at least for me).
> A lot of reviews indicate "small", "comfortable", but not the measured size...



Agreed. Fitting should be measured rather than individual feeling. I always neglect on 'Fitting' review by many reviewers.

For your information as you might don't know yet, here is the rough summary of the O.D. of the front cover ordering from 'big' to 'small'.
- Astrotec Lyra Shell = Larger than Typical MX500 Shell (I don't have measurement data)
- Typical MX500 Shell = 16.9 mm. plus or minus 0.1-0.2 mm. depend on the front cover thickness.
- Typical PK & Shozy & Docomo Shell, Qian Shell and VE Monk Lite Shell = 16.2 mm. plus or minus 0.1 mm.
- Apple earpod earbuds Shell (very first gen) and Meizu EP-21HD Shell = 16.0 mm.
- Rose Masya & Mojito Shell = 15.5 mm.

A few Asian guy I know of, he can wear only Apple earpod size and below. Mostly guy get perfect fit around 16.2 mm. While many European guys have no trouble with MX500 but they get loose fitting easily on Rose earbuds.


----------



## Saoshyant

The MX985 is high quality with a neutral relaxing sound that some will find boring.  Honestly I never use mine anymore, as I prefer multiple less expensive earbuds as their sound suits me better.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 16, 2018)

DJ The Rocket said:


> I'd add the MrZ Ting to the list of TOTL earbuds, but I'd also want to clarify:  there's TOTL, and then there's TOTL. With me so far?
> 
> The MX985 is what I might call "TRUE TOTL." The Ting is "2ND TOTL" or something, and I _assume_ the BS1, Masya, everything else around $100 etc. are as well, although I haven't heard any of them yet.
> 
> ...


The BS1 official is a true totl SQ, think of it as being the baseline for TOTL sound quality. Masya, Ting, Cygnus seem to be very good but a level under (if I had to guess about the Ting).

Honestly the BS1 has too many qualities to be considered anything below that level. The 3D soundstage and imaging are top notch amoung other very good aspects.

I do find it slightly better than the Masya in overall detail and how resolving it is. The imaging is better too. So while sound signature still ultimately decides your choice, the Masya in my eyes is a tiny step below TOTL but a very good earbud nonetheless with an addicting sound signature.


----------



## seanc6441

gazzington said:


> I have only been into earbuds for the last two years and I keep seeing references to mx985s. Were these very good earphones and can you still get them?


One sold for €130 a few days ago in FS section. That’s probably the only means to acquire them since I doubt you’ll find a new old stock on them anymore. Not sure though.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Jan 16, 2018)

gazzington said:


> I have only been into earbuds for the last two years and I keep seeing references to mx985s. Were these very good earphones and can you still get them?



That might be me, several times They're my reference for TOTL earbuds, so I mention them a lot.


 

Sennheiser only produced the MX985 from late 2013 into early 2014, so not even a year. Thus they're pretty rare, and indeed there are much cheaper models that come pretty damn close. I recently picked up the $70 MrZ Ting, I estimate it has 95% of the MX985's sound quality, and it's _*so*_ much more comfortable to boot. The Audio Technica EC700 gets even closer, but that's strictly a neutral earbud (and discontinued as well. The EC707 is available, but I haven't heard one). The biggest secret about the 985 is its versatility: it can sound neutral, neutral with boosted subbass, or very warm colored, depending on the foams you wear. I enjoy them most with full Monk foams for maximum warmth 

The MX985 isn't a good investment unless you plan on keeping it for a number of years. Most days, 95% is more than good enough, the difference just doesn't matter. But now and again I'm really glad to have that last 5%. A couple of times per month maybe? Over ten years, those kinds of days add up.



chinmie said:


> it's a great earbuds, but has discontinued and a little hard to find. there are other earbuds nowadays in the same class to the mx985 (or even surpasses it in some categories) that are readily available.



What specific models are you thinking of? I mentioned the Ting, others have suggested the BS1 or Svara-L for $100 or less. I certainly hope the Mojito, Gramo One, and the other denizens of the $250 and up range would meet or beat it!

What earbuds have the best soundstage, for instance?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 16, 2018)

DJ The Rocket said:


> That might be me, several times They're my reference for TOTL earbuds, so I mention them a lot.
> 
> Sennheiser only produced the MX985 from late 2013 into early 2014, so not even a year. Thus they're pretty rare, and indeed there are much cheaper models that come pretty damn close. I recently picked up the $70 MrZ Ting, I estimate it has 95% of the MX985's sound quality, and it's _*so*_ much more comfortable to boot. The Audio Technica EC700 gets even closer, but that's strictly a neutral earbud. The biggest secret about the 985 is its versatility: it can sound neutral, neutral with boosted subbass, or very warm colored, depending on the foams you wear. I enjoy them most with full Monk foams for maximum warmth
> 
> ...


Masya soundstage is excellent but for me it’s how an earbud uses that soundstage is the important part. Namely how it images and separation to create a 3D presentation.

Masya does this well but slightly lacks in imaging accuracy, Mojito is probably better again. BS1 is slightly smaller stage but images better than Masya and portrays depth layering brilliantly.

Shozy BK by comparison is intimate and very upfront presentation but images fantastically too and has good depth and pretty good width, although my preference would be for a slightly more spacious stage like BS1/Masya. Shozy BK is more 2D with added depth, than holographic and 3D

You’ve probably already experienced this but different foams do alter the soundstage notably. I prefer thinner foams because they sound more airy/open and less ‘closed back’.


----------



## Narayan23

Saoshyant said:


> The MX985 is high quality with a neutral relaxing sound that some will find boring.  Honestly I never use mine anymore, as I prefer multiple less expensive earbuds as their sound suits me better.



You should sell it, this very unreasonable gentleman (The Wolf Of Bud Street) is trying to do the same, his are new but $985 is a bit on the expensive side...

https://www.ebay.es/itm/302604525792?rmvSB=true


----------



## seanc6441

Narayan23 said:


> You should sell it, this very unreasonable gentleman (The Wolf Of Bud Street) is trying to do the same, his are new but $985 is a bit on the expensive side...
> 
> https://www.ebay.es/itm/302604525792?rmvSB=true


Wolf of bud street... brilliant lol.

I personally love how he matched the $ price to the model number, as if his number wasn’t surreal enough already


----------



## DJ The Rocket

I suspect posts like that are meant to make people think $350 is a totally reasonable price. Nobody actually pays those prices.


----------



## chinmie

DJ The Rocket said:


> What specific models are you thinking of? I mentioned the Ting, others have suggested the BS1 or Svara-L for $100 or less. I certainly hope the Mojito, Gramo One, and the other denizens of the $250 and up range would meet or beat it!
> 
> What earbuds have the best soundstage, for instance?



The MX985 has a very "middle of the road, jack of all trade" kind of sound. Altough a great level, it doesn't have a signature trait compared to the other TOTL. For instance, mojito is synonymous with clarity, zen for its bass, BK for the mids, etc..

Svara L might not be TOTL level for many others, but it is without a doubt one of my most favorite out of my collection. It excels on a really deep bass and expansive soundstage with no gap in its imaging field (Some earbuds/phones might have a wide soundstage, but it seems not connected between the left ear and the right ear).  Listening to binaural recordings and live concert with the Svara L will reveal that strength.  

Concerning about TOTLs beside MX985 that i find special are (in no particular order) : Mojito (Altough i don't personally like them) , BK, K's Samsara, Diomnes Lv2, Yinman 600, Liebesleid, and Puresounds PS100-500

Soundstage wise, i like the Liebesleid, because it sounds airy, like the sound floats around your head. The mojito has similar stage, but i just don't like the sound too much. 

I honestly haven't heard the Ting yet.. It's one of the buds that intrigued me. I had the tomahawk once, but the sound is too "in your face" that it hurts my ears on extended use, so i let them go


----------



## ctaxxxx

chinmie said:


> Svara L might not be TOTL level for many others, but it is without a doubt one of my most favorite out of my collection. It excels on a really deep bass and expansive soundstage with no gap in its imaging field (Some earbuds/phones might have a wide soundstage, but it seems not connected between the left ear and the right ear).  Listening to binaural recordings and live concert with the Svara L will reveal that strength.



I've been wanting to hear these. Listening to budget buds with their boosted bass makes me want try something similar, but with higher fidelity. I would need a 2.5mm cable though... 

How is this? - LINK


----------



## XP_98

chaiyuta said:


> Agreed. Fitting should be measured rather than individual feeling. I always neglect on 'Fitting' review by many reviewers.
> 
> For your information as you might don't know yet, here is the rough summary of the O.D. of the front cover ordering from 'big' to 'small'.
> - Astrotec Lyra Shell = Larger than Typical MX500 Shell (I don't have measurement data)
> ...


Thank you for these informations.
I ve got the DIY mx760 graphene, and want to use earbuds as an office alternative to my Zeus XR Adel. Not SQ-wise of course, but as I find them less fatiguing than IEMs.
The problem is they don't stay well in my ears. So I'll try the smaller Toneking ROS1 (shipping). If they fit well, I plan to search something with same size and better SQ. That's why I need informations how the size of these several models reviewed here compare...


----------



## chaiyuta

@ctaxxxx : Why not 4.4 mm. instead since you already placed order AMP4, hehe.
2 days ago, I just got AMP4 +CA02 adapter. Every my 2.5 mm. earbuds sound more 3D holographic, wider soundstage and transparency.
For cable, I read some review of Penon OS849, it got 2 quite possitive reviews from Twister6 and Audio123. Also, its price is more affordable than well known and big brand cables. Penon has various connector options that may meet your need too.


----------



## ctaxxxx (Jan 16, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> @ctaxxxx : Why not 4.4 mm. instead since you already placed order AMP4, hehe.
> 2 days ago, I just got AMP4 +CA02 adapter. Every my 2.5 mm. earbuds sound more 3D holographic, wider soundstage and transparency.
> For cable, I read some review of Penon OS849, it got 2 quite possitive reviews from Twister6 and Audio123. Also, its price is more affordable than well known and big brand cables. Penon has various connector options that may meet your need too.



But then I could only use AMP4. I have adapters for 2.5mm that I can use with 3.5mm or 4.4mm. It's not very cost effective for me to go straight to 4.4mm at the moment.

I would prefer pure Copper over SPC for the Svara L. It feels a bit much when the cable will be more expensive than the earphone itself, especially when I will only be using it for that bud.

*edit: *VE makes a really cheap SPC cable. Wonder if I should go for that, though I doubt the quality...


----------



## chinmie

ctaxxxx said:


> I've been wanting to hear these. Listening to budget buds with their boosted bass makes me want try something similar, but with higher fidelity. I would need a 2.5mm cable though...
> 
> How is this? - LINK



unfortunately i haven't try them with balanced. i mainly use my svara L with a bluetooth wire.
yes, the budget earbuds nowadays does excellent job at bass that make them rival even the TOTL lines. but when it comes to mid to (especially) treble resolution and soundstage, i haven't found budget to mid priced buds that can compete. some mid priced like the red demun have sweet sounding mids though,but i think you already know this

for favorite bass sound, i also like the Willsound mk2 beside the Svara L


----------



## HungryPanda

Nice to know chinmie, I really like my Svara L and just got shipping notice of the Willsound Mk2 today, waiting patiently now


----------



## audio123

Penon BS1 Official Review Now on Head-Fi

Enjoy! 

https://head-fi.org/showcase/penon-bs1-official-version.22858/reviews#review-19712


----------



## j4100

HungryPanda said:


> Nice to know chinmie, I really like my Svara L and just got shipping notice of the Willsound Mk2 today, waiting patiently now



I'm waiting for a bunch of buds, including the Willsound from Adhi. Hope I get my shipping notification soon.


----------



## Saoshyant

I do hope Svara brings back the original L as I imagine many of the glowing impressions concerning it are of this version.  I kind of want to baby it as replacement is not likely.

I really should get back to trying Mojito as I did like it a lot but preferred Masya, and replaced that as my top bud with both CampFreds.


----------



## BoomBap08 (Jan 16, 2018)

Hi, guys!

Just wanna ask your opinions regarding the Shozy Cygnus if it's still a worthy buy especially in this day and age where there are lots of buds offered in every price range possible? Or are there better ones out there with possibly the same warm, accurate, and forward mids signature?

I'm looking for something in between the Toneking Ting and the TY Hi-Z 150s. A bit warmer/bit more low end and has more body on the timbre than the Ting but definitely less bassy than the 150s and has forward and smooth mids. Fit is also a must as I'm planning to use this for sleeping. Looking to hear your suggestions.

Thanks!


----------



## j4100

I try to avoid using more expensive buds when I'm in bed, as I know one day it won't be a stray foam that is lying next to me, it will be a detached ear piece (probably with the cable wrapped round my neck)!


----------



## waynes world

audio123 said:


> Penon BS1 Official Review Now on Head-Fi
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> https://head-fi.org/showcase/penon-bs1-official-version.22858/reviews#review-19712



Sorry you dislike them so much!  j/k j/k

Sean's hype-train is speeding up! (seems justified though


----------



## BoomBap08

j4100 said:


> I try to avoid using more expensive buds when I'm in bed, as I know one day it won't be a stray foam that is lying next to me, it will be a detached ear piece (probably with the cable wrapped round my neck)!



Yeah, I'm afraid as well to break my babies may it be cheap or expensive. That's why I don't really listen to buds or even iem when sleeping. I just use it 'til I feel sleepy enough then I remove it from my ears before eventually going to sleep.


----------



## j4100

BoomBap08 said:


> Yeah, I'm afraid as well to break my babies may it be cheap or expensive. That's why I don't really listen to buds or even iem when sleeping. I just use it 'til I feel sleepy enough then I remove it from my ears before eventually going to sleep.



I use my less expensive buds. Sometimes I take them out before I fall asleep, sometimes I don't, hence my worry 

I quite like my Seahf F150C for this, but have a load more recently, so spoiled for choice. I'm sure someone will answer your main question though.



waynes world said:


> Sorry you dislike them so much!  j/k j/k
> 
> Sean's hype-train is speeding up! (seems justified though



I'm getting tempted, even though I shoudln't.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

okay...something strange happen with my **** PT-15 or my XD-05 amp I don't know but I wonder if it happen to anybody.

Did someone get ELECTROCUTED by their earbuds? Especially metal one (i guess)? Especially PT-15???

Got some little shock to right ear so I stop using them right away....first time it happen.


----------



## janawe

Nymphonomaniac said:


> okay...something strange happen with my **** PT-15 or my XD-05 amp I don't know but I wonder if it happen to anybody.
> 
> Did someone get ELECTROCUTED by their earbuds? Especially metal one (i guess)? Especially PT-15???
> 
> Got some little shock to right ear so I stop using them right away....first time it happen.



I have experienced electric shock when using the AuGlamour RX-1 with the Zishan Z1 as a DAC/AMP from the PC at work. I now only use plastic-shelled earbuds with the USB-powered Zishan Z1.


----------



## doggiemom

SweetEars said:


> can someone tell me is there a difference in the emx500 when u use donut foams vs the full foams


You've mentioned several times that you have the EMX500 and foams are cheap, so why don't you try it and see?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 16, 2018)

BoomBap08 said:


> Hi, guys!
> 
> Just wanna ask your opinions regarding the Shozy Cygnus if it's still a worthy buy especially in this day and age where there are lots of buds offered in every price range possible? Or are there better ones out there with possibly the same warm, accurate, and forward mids signature?
> 
> ...


You’ve just described the Shozy BK! Spend the extra on it. Cygnus is not worth $80 anymore maybe $60 I feel that’s why I recommend people buy it used, it’s good but the BK is much better at achieving the ‘shozy’ sound.

Shozy BK is worth the price because it’s exactly what you described and is absolutely the best midrange I’ve heard in an earbud. ForwRd, naturally slightly warm, timbre is perfect, everything in the midrange is perfect.

I love it’s midrange too much lol. But yeah if you have $150 buy it... You will not regret it especially on a good source with separation and soundstage.

If you don’t, get a second hand Cygnus for $50 or under. Don’t overspend on it it’s not worth the retail anymore as it’s getting slightly dated (put it’s still good overall)

But i have both and I’d rather save up for BK and have that as my only choice for this sound signature. Once I got the BK it became my daily choice, that and the BS1


----------



## chinmie

Nymphonomaniac said:


> okay...something strange happen with my **** PT-15 or my XD-05 amp I don't know but I wonder if it happen to anybody.
> 
> Did someone get ELECTROCUTED by their earbuds? Especially metal one (i guess)? Especially PT-15???
> 
> Got some little shock to right ear so I stop using them right away....first time it happen.



 are you using them with PC? maybe bad grounding? I've never experience electric shock when using it with battery powered ones like DAP or laptops. i used to get shocked a lot when recording guitars to PC back in the days.. i can imagine getting shocked in the ears


----------



## waynes world

BoomBap08 said:


> Yeah, I'm afraid as well to break my babies may it be cheap or expensive. That's why I don't really listen to buds or even iem when sleeping. I just use it 'til I feel sleepy enough then I remove it from my ears before eventually going to sleep.



I fall asleep with buds in my ears (listening to trance) and my dap shuts off after 45 min. If I wake up in the middle of the night.. then rinse and repeat. So basically I have buds in my ears all night. My sleepy time buds of choice are either the new or old graphenes because (a) they sound great and (b) their stems aren't so thick that they bother me when my head's on the side and (c) they are inexpensive enough that if I break them, it won't be the end of the world. But so far they have lasted like champs.


----------



## DBaldock9

Nymphonomaniac said:


> okay...something strange happen with my **** PT-15 or my XD-05 amp I don't know but I wonder if it happen to anybody.
> 
> Did someone get ELECTROCUTED by their earbuds? Especially metal one (i guess)? Especially PT-15???
> 
> Got some little shock to right ear so I stop using them right away....first time it happen.





janawe said:


> I have experienced electric shock when using the AuGlamour RX-1 with the Zishan Z1 as a DAC/AMP from the PC at work. I now only use plastic-shelled earbuds with the USB-powered Zishan Z1.



During my Christmas vacation, I had my Zishan Z2 and Walnut F1 connected to my Mint Linux Netbook, using a Plugable 7-Port USB 3.0 SuperSpeed Charging Hub with 60W Power Adapter (BC 1.2 Charging Support) - and whenever I used my audio cables with un-insulated MMCX
connectors, my ears were getting small shocks.

At home, when they're connected to my PC and an Anker Quick Charge 3.0 63W 5-Port USB Wall Charger - and not to the Plugable Hub, I don't get shocked.


----------



## chaiyuta

ctaxxxx said:


> But then I could only use AMP4. I have adapters for 2.5mm that I can use with 3.5mm or 4.4mm. It's not very cost effective for me to go straight to 4.4mm at the moment.
> 
> I would prefer pure Copper over SPC for the Svara L. It feels a bit much when the cable will be more expensive than the earphone itself, especially when I will only be using it for that bud.
> 
> *edit: *VE makes a really cheap SPC cable. Wonder if I should go for that, though I doubt the quality...



VE Basic Cable : Espresso is the pure copper $10. It might be fit your bills as the lowest price.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac (Jan 16, 2018)

DBaldock9 said:


> During my Christmas vacation, I had my Zishan Z2 and Walnut F1 connected to my Mint Linux Netbook, using a Plugable 7-Port USB 3.0 SuperSpeed Charging Hub with 60W Power Adapter (BC 1.2 Charging Support) - and whenever I used my audio cables with un-insulated MMCX
> connectors, my ears were getting small shocks.
> 
> At home, when they're connected to my PC and an Anker Quick Charge 3.0 63W 5-Port USB Wall Charger - and not to the Plugable Hub, I don't get shocked.



Lol, sorry for this bad joke from your earbuds, we know were hardcore audiophile when we accept this kind of crualty from our badass earbuds. So its never more than small shock I guess....I really suspect my computer about this, as it make other problem with my DAC-AMP I plug it in....like BIG BEEEEEEP NOISE, another crual treatment that scare the shyt out of me as it litteraly pierce my ears and make me scream What. Thinking getting rid of window crap and install Linux....what a contradictory era we live in were technology created for making our life easier transform it to hell by his obscurantist constraint!

Anyway, just hope to not have brain damage, life is already enough focked up.

PT-15 and Mrz Tomahawk will not be used with my HP laptop anymore.

How do we know a MMCX cable is insulated....its a 30$ one that I use. Not nice that it isnt insulated.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

chinmie said:


> are you using them with PC? maybe bad grounding? I've never experience electric shock when using it with battery powered ones like DAP or laptops. i used to get shocked a lot when recording guitars to PC back in the days.. i can imagine getting shocked in the ears


Yeah, its little shock like the one you get with the electrified pencil sell in ''funny store'' if you know what I mean. 

I think you confirm here my tough about computer....I should not try to find a better to ground it, just put it far under the ground and forget about his existence. HP=Highly Phony.


----------



## chaiyuta

XP_98 said:


> Thank you for these informations.
> I ve got the DIY mx760 graphene, and want to use earbuds as an office alternative to my Zeus XR Adel. Not SQ-wise of course, but as I find them less fatiguing than IEMs.
> The problem is they don't stay well in my ears. So I'll try the smaller Toneking ROS1 (shipping). If they fit well, I plan to search something with same size and better SQ. That's why I need informations how the size of these several models reviewed here compare...



For DIY graphene O.D.size, in fact it use Beyerdynamic DP100 shell, not MX760. DP100 shell size is in-between MX500 shell and PK shell. I guess its O.D. around 16.5-16.7 mm. It is compatible with 15.4 mm. driver as same as MX500 earbuds. While Pk shell is compatible with 14.6 mm driver.

P.S. Wow you own summit-fi Zeus, then no earbuds here could beat its SQ especially detail retrieval of Zeus. I would like to try EE legend X, the new one that show-off in Portafest 2018.


----------



## chinmie

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Yeah, its little shock like the one you get with the electrified pencil sell in ''funny store'' if you know what I mean.
> 
> I think you confirm here my tough about computer....I should not try to find a better to ground it, just put it far under the ground and forget about his existence. HP=Highly Phony.



or you could just sit on a chair with rubber soles, raise your feet of the ground while wearing the earbuds, and also raise your hand to not touching the desk or the PC (head fi - style yoga pose)


----------



## doggiemom

I've been shocked by a variety of buds and IEMs.  I think it may be static discharging up the cables.  (At work, I have source (phone) and DAC/amp in a lab coat pocket).  When the humidity is low, I get shocked all the time when wearing Tyvek lab coats (even without earbuds), so I suspect it is more general static discharge than a particular bud.  Maybe the cables are like lightning rods!  It is unpleasant though for sure.


----------



## Cyperus

Share ZoomFred...
After getting input from several member, this has been finalize on the tuning. 

I would say it has a big sound stage with authority in every Freq. a bit warm n sweet and fun to listen to.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

doggiemom said:


> I've been shocked by a variety of buds and IEMs.  I think it may be static discharging up the cables.  (At work, I have source (phone) and DAC/amp in a lab coat pocket).  When the humidity is low, I get shocked all the time when wearing Tyvek lab coats (even without earbuds), so I suspect it is more general static discharge than a particular bud.  Maybe the cables are like lightning rods!  It is unpleasant though for sure.


Okay, this is possible too, as its -20 outside and all heating is at max and air is dry as hell and static is out of control to the point that when I go to sleep its my blanket make psychadelic firework.....it make sens. Can it happen with non metal earbuds too?


----------



## DBaldock9

Nymphonomaniac said:


> ...PT-15 and Mrz Tomahawk will not be used with my HP laptop anymore.
> 
> How do we know a MMCX cable is insulated....its a 30$ one that I use. Not nice that it isnt insulated.



If the MMCX connectors have plastic insulation, like these -






- and the earphones have a plastic shell, then you shouldn't get shocked.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac (Jan 16, 2018)

DBaldock9 said:


> If the MMCX connectors have plastic insulation, like these -
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks man.
Did the above Tinaudio T2 cable is insulated then?
**** PT-15 cable don't look insulated....should exchange cable perhaps.


PS: I think that they are, with 30$ silver plated cable it have a little space in conenction, and with the T2 it do not have one....okay, will plug it right away, if I survive, will confirm this!

EDIT: Tinaudio T2 cable solve the problem. No shock treatment anymore. I'm alive! I'm alive!


----------



## mochill

Cyperus said:


> Share ZoomFred...
> After getting input from several member, this has been finalize on the tuning.
> 
> I would say it has a big sound stage with authority in every Freq. a bit warm n sweet and fun to listen to.


How much for them


----------



## DJ The Rocket

[Accidental post, editing in another app first]


----------



## Niqeres

Nymphonomaniac said:


> okay...something strange happen with my **** PT-15 or my XD-05 amp I don't know but I wonder if it happen to anybody.
> 
> Did someone get ELECTROCUTED by their earbuds? Especially metal one (i guess)? Especially PT-15???
> 
> Got some little shock to right ear so I stop using them right away....first time it happen.


Might be static. I get shocked once in a while when wearing my kz hds1 while walking on carpet.


----------



## audio123

Discussion thread for Penon BS1 Official Version earbud!

https://head-fi.org/threads/penon-bs1-offcial-version-earbud-discussion.870006/


----------



## j4100

I have hope that my NiceHCK EBX shipment might not be far away, as I just got notification that my Jazz R7.0 amp is now in country. I actually bought this before I bought three other amps, but the Chinese customs held on to it, then eventually sent it back to Jim, who shipped it back out to me (around the same time as the EBX was shipped). 

In other news, I was listening to my K's 600 last night, after some burn in. I need to compare these to the Samsara. They do sound good.


----------



## noknok23

I wonder if anyone has puresounds ps100-600 and K's 600. Would be wonderful if they could compare.


----------



## HungryPanda

I had a little tingle from my NiceHCK EBX once but I cannot remember which dap it was. It has happened only once so I'm not worried. I do pick up a lot of static though so that may have been it


----------



## HungryPanda

The K's 600 are one of my favourite earbuds


----------



## DJ The Rocket

chinmie said:


> The MX985 has a very "middle of the road, jack of all trade" kind of sound. Altough a great level, it doesn't have a signature trait compared to the other TOTL



I can see where you're coming from in this, but what foams are you using? Thick foams do have that effect IME, but when is the last time you tried the thin Monk foams? They seem to draw a lovely warmth out of the 985. 

Now the ATH-EC700, that's a middle of the road flat earbud, and no foam I've ever found changes that one 



chinmie said:


> Svara L might not be TOTL level for many others, but it is without a doubt one of my most favorite out of my collection. It excels on a really deep bass and expansive soundstage with no gap in its imaging field



Finally got around to ordering one tonight  



chinmie said:


> Concerning about TOTLs beside MX985 that i find special are (in no particular order) : Mojito (Altough i don't personally like them) , BK, K's Samsara, Diomnes Lv2, Yinman 600, Liebesleid, and Puresounds PS100-500



Between your and Seans suggestions, there's got to be something for me in there


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Jan 17, 2018)

Ali express is so confusing. Every *Svara-L* is different from the others. The price ranges from* $50 to $80,* the impedance is either *12, 32, or 64 ohms*, each has a wildly different frequency range, though each one is well beyond 20/20k on both sides. Are they all the same and sellers are just making stuff up? Or are there 3 secret versions and you have to guess? No one told me I'd have to guess! 

Is aliexpress run by Ravenclaw graduates, they quiz you on which Svara is the true Svara to be allowed to buy one? I guess if it's a secret club and you're not allowed to talk about it that kind of makes sense. 

Is it a cultural thing, like how some cultures expect you to haggle and others think haggling is rude? _When haggling in Marrakech, you must always keep your sense of humour about you;

When shopping for earbuds on aliexpress, you must be prepared to sort through so many identical looking products with widely varying specs. ..
_
If anyone here has *cracked the Svara code* please give this outsider a nudge in the right direction


----------



## chinmie

DJ The Rocket said:


> Ali express is so confusing. Every *Svara-L* is different from the others. The price ranges from* $50 to $80,* the impedance is either *12, 32, or 64 ohms*, each has a wildly different frequency range, though each one is well beyond 20/20k on both sides. Are they all the same and sellers are just making stuff up? Or are there 3 secret versions and you have to guess? No one told me I'd have to guess!
> 
> Is aliexpress run by Ravenclaw graduates, they quiz you on which Svara is the true Svara to be allowed to buy one? I guess if it's a secret club and you're not allowed to talk about it that kind of makes sense.
> 
> ...




the original Svara L is 115 ohm if i'm not mistaken


----------



## HungryPanda

My Svara L is 32 ohm


----------



## seanc6441

DJ The Rocket said:


> Ali express is so confusing. Every *Svara-L* is different from the others. The price ranges from* $50 to $80,* the impedance is either *12, 32, or 64 ohms*, each has a wildly different frequency range, though each one is well beyond 20/20k on both sides. Are they all the same and sellers are just making stuff up? Or are there 3 secret versions and you have to guess? No one told me I'd have to guess!
> 
> Is aliexpress run by Ravenclaw graduates, they quiz you on which Svara is the true Svara to be allowed to buy one? I guess if it's a secret club and you're not allowed to talk about it that kind of makes sense.
> 
> ...


It depends what your looking for in a totl earbud? Like does it need to be an all rounder? Specific for your favourite genre? Balanced sound or emphasis on certain frequencies? That’s what will determine which buds to look at 

I better check your inventory because if you have mx985 maybe avoiding something too similar would be good.


----------



## j4100

DJ The Rocket said:


> Ali express is so confusing. Every *Svara-L* is different from the others. The price ranges from* $50 to $80,* the impedance is either *12, 32, or 64 ohms*, each has a wildly different frequency range, though each one is well beyond 20/20k on both sides. Are they all the same and sellers are just making stuff up? Or are there 3 secret versions and you have to guess? No one told me I'd have to guess!
> 
> Is aliexpress run by Ravenclaw graduates, they quiz you on which Svara is the true Svara to be allowed to buy one? I guess if it's a secret club and you're not allowed to talk about it that kind of makes sense.
> 
> ...



Having read most of this thread, it would appear, as others have mentioned, the first Svara-L was 115Ohm, then it appeared as a 32Ohm version, possibly to make them easier to drive with phones. Unless someone knows differently?

I don't believe some of the product info that some sellers post. One even has something like 100-200Ohms!

NiceHCK have it available with two different cables, but there is a fair spread of prices from the various sellers.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

I just picked the cheapest one. Claims 20 ohms, $50. I guess we'll see how that works out in 1-2 weeks.


----------



## chaiyuta

Svara-L has 2 version; normal and pro. Normal uses silver-coloured grille while Pro uses black-coloured grille.


----------



## Saoshyant

Aiwa Hp-D9 has 13 mins left on ebay, will break $600 USD most likely.  In case anyone needs it.


----------



## j4100

chaiyuta said:


> Svara-L has 2 version; normal and pro. Normal uses silver-coloured grille while Pro uses black-coloured grille.



Any idea what difference there is between the two, other than the grille colour? I don't recall seeing the pro version on Ali, it is a Taobao item?

I have to say that I was considering the Svara-L when I first joined this thread and might still go for it. I like the impressions given on here.


----------



## seanc6441

Saoshyant said:


> Aiwa Hp-D9 has 13 mins left on ebay, will break $600 USD most likely.  In case anyone needs it.


‘needs’ 

That’s quite expensive though! Wonder how they compare to earbuds TOTL of today.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Cyperus said:


> Share ZoomFred...
> After getting input from several member, this has been finalize on the tuning.
> 
> I would say it has a big sound stage with authority in every Freq. a bit warm n sweet and fun to listen to.



Between these and the K's buds (whichever I decide), I'm going to be running low. 

I've even been considering repurchasing the Liebesleid in balanced. I feel I did it a disservice with my impressions, since AMP1 unbalanced out is my least favorite output. Right now, CampFred 2 sounds AMAZING through AMP4 (with thick foams). I prefer it for metal over my Z1R. Really thick and heavy sound. 




chaiyuta said:


> VE Basic Cable : Espresso is the pure copper $10. It might be fit your bills as the lowest price.



Honestly, I _really_ hate the expresso's cable color. I might just go for the SPC despite my earlier statement, since it will look better with the Svara's as well. I can always upgrade the cable later anyway.




j4100 said:


> Any idea what difference there is between the two, other than the grille colour? I don't recall seeing the pro version on Ali, it is a Taobao item?
> 
> I have to say that I was considering the Svara-L when I first joined this thread and might still go for it. I like the impressions given on here.



I don't see it on Ali either. All these different versions are making me hesitant. Might just choose the cheapest possible option as well...


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Jan 17, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> Svara-L has 2 version; normal and pro. Normal uses silver-coloured grille while Pro uses black-coloured grille.
> 
> [Pic redacted]



Gah, isn't it in _everyone's _best interest that this info get disseminated? Why keep it secret? If not secret, it was certainly hard to find, seeing as how this is news to me after spending the last two weeks casting my search net as wide as I could.

Surely there are internal differences to go along with the blingin' gold grill?



ctaxxxx said:


> I don't see it on Ali either. All these different versions are making me hesitant. Might just choose the cheapest possible option as well...



Exactly! It's such bad business practice. I'd pay a $35 premium if there was a clear difference in sound quality, or even a clear difference in tuning that I preferred. But how can I have any idea what I just paid for? Buying new gear in this hobby is enough of a gamble already without these extra shenanigans.

 I'm wondering if I shouldn't cancel my order until (if)  I ever get a grasp on this. It's my first aliexpress order and I've read it's a mixed bag when it comes to making a return.

Just mind-boggling how hard they're making it to buy anything with confidence. Obviously it's well-known that audiophiles tend not to second-guess their decisions or suffer buyer's remorse.


*UPDATE: *I saw in the email from aliexpress that it will take 24 hours for my payment to be verified, so I have time to back out if I choose to. Does anybody have any more information about the myriad different Svara-L versions? Do they all sound the same, provided I have an appropriate amp for the impedance?


----------



## DBaldock9

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Thanks man.
> Did the above Tinaudio T2 cable is insulated then?
> **** PT-15 cable don't look insulated....should exchange cable perhaps.
> 
> ...



Both of your cables have plastic over the outside (-) connection.
Also, the PT15 uses red & blue plastic bushings, between the MMCX connector, and the earbud housing.
If you take an Ohmmeter, you should find that the (+) & (-) signals are completely isolated from the housing.

The type that I've installed on my VE Espresso 2.5mm Balanced cable, has a metal outer shell, which means the (-) signal comes into contact with my head / ears.
(*NOTE:* With Single-ended wiring, both sides have the same (-) signal, but with Balanced wiring, the (-) signals are not the same, so you can get current flow between them.)


----------



## Danneq

Saoshyant said:


> Aiwa Hp-D9 has 13 mins left on ebay, will break $600 USD most likely.  In case anyone needs it.



Crazy price!

I got my pair for around €115 about 5-6 years ago. One diaphragm had a hole in it but I "fixed" that with some scotch tape over the hole.

I should have kept my vintage Sony earbuds and waited for the prices to rise instead of selling them 1 year ago. But then again, I used that money for CAX Red Dragon...


----------



## Saoshyant

Danneq said:


> Crazy price!
> 
> I got my pair for around €115 about 5-6 years ago. One diaphragm had a hole in it but I "fixed" that with some scotch tape over the hole.
> 
> I should have kept my vintage Sony earbuds and waited for the prices to rise instead of selling them 1 year ago. But then again, I used that money for CAX Red Dragon...



For that price, I'd much rather see what Herry can do for me.  It's a shame how much prices rise in these circumstances.  Maybe I'll get lucky and the MX985 price will rise enough that I'll finally sell mine.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Jan 17, 2018)

Danneq said:


> money for CAX Red Dragon



Sounds like it was worth it to you. I'm not theoretically opposed to spending that much if it lives up to the hype, I have more of a practical concern. I'm worried that if I don't like it, there probably isn't much of a resale market, even if I were to write off 1/3 of the cost to depreciation. There's a finite number of people who are the right kind of crazy to even entertain the idea of dropping $400+ on a pair of secondhand earbuds, and I doubt very many of them actually have $400. Worse still, the potential buyer pool is going to be one man smaller after that Aiwa auction ends.

Does anyone else want to take the plunge? If it doesn't work out for you I might take a chance on yours at that 33% discount  Writing off a third of _that_ price if I want to resell is still pretty steep, but the second third is a little easier to swallow. By the third owner there's hardly any risk at all, at 4/9 the original price, beyond opportunity costs. What are the chances of it getting much farther than that in the first place, if the Dragons are anywhere around as amazing as advertised?



Saoshyant said:


> Aiwa Hp-D9 has 13 mins left on ebay, will break $600 USD most likely.  In case anyone needs it.



What's up with that price? I'm sure they sound great and all, and maybe the higher bidders are collectors who get as much pleasure from owning them as they would from listening to them, if they even plan on listening to them. I know it's not just about sound quality, but still.


----------



## Danneq (Jan 17, 2018)

DJ The Rocket said:


> Sounds like it was worth it to you. I'm not theoretically opposed to spending that much if it lives up to the hype, I have more of a practical concern. I'm worried that if I don't like it, there probably isn't much of a resale market, even if I were to write off 1/3 of the cost to depreciation. There's a finite number of people who are the right kind of crazy to even entertain the idea of dropping $400+ on a pair of secondhand earbuds, and I doubt very many of them actually have $400. Worse still, the potential buyer pool is going to be one man smaller after that Aiwa auction ends.
> 
> Does anyone else want to take the plunge? If it doesn't work out for you I might take a chance on yours at that 33% discount  Writing off a third of _that_ price if I want to resell is still pretty steep, but the second third is a little easier to swallow. By the third owner there's hardly any risk at all, at 4/9 the original price, beyond opportunity costs. What are the chances of it getting much farther than that in the first place, if the Dragons are anywhere around as amazing as advertised?
> 
> ...




Red Dragon are definite keepers. Truly out of the head, out of this world amazing performance by them. But the cable is so stiff that I'm afraid the drivers will be damaged if I use them outside. There isn't much stress relief on them. But I suppose that they are a sort of dynamic driver earbud equivalent of Stax headphones - best used in the comfort and silence of your home.

The soundstage of Aiwa HP D9 is truly great, by the way. But they are the most bass aenemic earbuds I've heard. Aiwa and Sony truly created great earbuds back in the 80's  & 90's. Too bad they abandoned the high end earbuds game. It took something like 15 years for earbuds (Yuin around 2006/2007) to come close to the old Sonys and Aiwas.
But these days, since around 2015, is just crazy with one amazing earbud after the other being released. I sort of gave up on Crow Audio Raven and consider myself content with what I have at the moment.

But I keep following this thread. And yeah, I was very tempted at buying Penon BS1...

Anyway, if you can find a pair of top end Aiwas (HP D9, V9 or V99) or a pair of Sony MDR E252, 282 or 484 for a good price, please do buy them. Nowadays those earbuds are collectors items and can be a good investment.


----------



## HungryPanda (Jan 17, 2018)

Wrong thread head-fi mobile grrrrr


----------



## jant71 (Jan 17, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> IRM acoustics £500, ZhiYin Z5000 £43.66 .... I prefer the ZhiYin . Love both iems but as I previous pushed  the TinAudio T2  (which I still think it is great) Chi-Fi is brilliant and I am going to share something amazing in a few days



What you thought Trinity Bob was giving you some sort of deal  So, this new amazing thing is what - earbud, in-ear, or something else? Posting in here seems earbud?


----------



## Blackground (Jan 17, 2018)

I would like to be the first to go on record with a custom Shozy BK 

Instead of buying new earbuds, I am refining the ones I already own and turning them into one of a kind, masterpieces

I am calling them The Black Knights..


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 17, 2018)

Blackground said:


> I would like to be the first to go on record with a custom Shozy BK
> 
> Instead of buying new earbuds, I am refining the ones I already own and turning them into one of a kind, masterpieces
> 
> I am calling them The Black Knights..


But, but the original cable is so nice... xD

Appropriately named 

So I’m someone who’s not got the experience with enough hifi cables or done any a/b testing to have an opinion on cables myself.

But I’ll ask you yours! Do you hear any difference after changing the cable? Or was it purely for aesthetics?

Speaking of such you may have seen shozy released a new version of the BK with a new cable. May be interesting to hear impressions on that if anyone will buy it!


----------



## Blackground

It was! but.. the memory of it was soooo annoying lol 

Honestly I re-cabled them because I dropped my dap with them plugged in and bent the 2.5mm connector 

I will say they sound a touch brighter, but hard to say. I will have to do some more listening tonight! 

Dangg.. I didn't see that?? Link?!

I was really set on picking up those limited edition silver cygnus that was in the classifieds.. But I did this instead


----------



## waynes world

Regarding the "new" graphenes, I wasn't sure how much I would like them after reading some of the more negative posts, but it turns out that I really like them.

How do others here feel about them?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 17, 2018)

Blackground said:


> It was! but.. the memory of it was soooo annoying lol
> 
> Honestly I re-cabled them because I dropped my dap with them plugged in and bent the 2.5mm connector
> 
> ...


To me it seems just a recabled version of bk, here’s the original post with a link https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1769#post-13942141

Oh and I understand now why you swapped and personally I found the memory only a little difficult because it was so soft that it wouldn’t be awkward to flatten in use.

Plus I think it’s the most classy and well braided cable ive seen. Such tight braided is probably the reason it holds memory but my god does it feel nice and look good!

Enjoy your recabled BK, I enjoy the hell out of my standard edition original cable hehe


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Regarding the "new" graphenes, I wasn't sure how much I would like them after reading some of the more negative posts, but it turns out that I really like them.
> 
> How do others here feel about them?



I really like the new graphenes.  I have not heard the old ones but that's ok.  Nobody will ask me to compare


----------



## SweetEars

Cyperus said:


> Share ZoomFred...
> After getting input from several member, this has been finalize on the tuning.
> 
> I would say it has a big sound stage with authority in every Freq. a bit warm n sweet and fun to listen to.


how to buy them?


----------



## SweetEars

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Oh, this look nice. Just have old FAAEL.....wonder if they have different driver and soundsignature, sure have different cable. Any comparaison between different Faeel models? Did not know the Snow-lotus ones....


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIF...id=433708b0-6509-4992-87e9-9ea6c3f7794b&tpp=1

Faaeel  snowLotus 1.0 iris?

what about this?  how does it sound like?


----------



## vladstef

Is there such a thing like a bright sounding budget bud? I've been thinking about Moondrop Nameless which is praised here but not exactly bright, so, something that's brighter but without that strong lower mid range that so many buds do.


----------



## wskl

vladstef said:


> Is there such a thing like a bright sounding budget bud? I've been thinking about Moondrop Nameless which is praised here but not exactly bright, so, something that's brighter but without that strong lower mid range that so many buds do.



Maybe look into **** PT15 and Monk Lite (40 ohm).


----------



## DJ The Rocket

seanc6441 said:


> So I’m someone who’s not got the experience with enough hifi cables or done any a/b testing to have an opinion on cables myself.
> 
> But I’ll ask you yours! Do you hear any difference after changing the cable? Or was it purely for aesthetics



I've done a lot of thinking and testing and studying this. The short answer is no, one moderately well constructed cable sounds exactly as good as the next.

The long answer is it's complicated, but for 99.9% of applications one sounds as good as the next, and a lot of disagreement is more about how you define terms. A slightly different (I would say "wrong") definition of what "better sound quality" is will change the answer from yes to no.

Here's what I mean: imagine comparing a generic cable bought off the shelf at Target with a custom Litz braided cable. You do a blind test, getting your girlfriend to swap one cable with the next, and you A/B them. Same headphones, same source, everything remains constant except for the cables you're swapping. The result is the Litz is clearly identifiable by ear, and most people will describe it as "better sounding." But I already gave you the answer earlier, that the Litz braid _doesn't_ sound better.

Can you spot the flaw in this methodology yet? 

I'll give you a hint: a good experiment design will isolate a single variable to test. The dependent variable is the subjective assessment of sound quality. What's the independent variable? Are you sure?

This took me months to figure out, but then I didn't have that excellent hint giving it away.

A dozen Aiwa HP-D9s to whoever gets it first!



DJ The Rocket said:


> as promised one dozen Aiwas in this blue box for safekeeping
> 
> 
> (for good measure lol)


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 17, 2018)

vladstef said:


> Is there such a thing like a bright sounding budget bud? I've been thinking about Moondrop Nameless which is praised here but not exactly bright, so, something that's brighter but without that strong lower mid range that so many buds do.


Toneking Tomahawk is very bright. I don’t think the mid bass or lower mids were emphasised.

Dunno the price these days try look for a good deal on it maybe in FS section as many didn’t like it and someone my have one to sell. New it was €30-40 so not very budget but not to expensive.

It’s a great earbud if paired with a powerful enough source and if you can handle the upper frequencies which you seem to want emphasised.


----------



## seanc6441

DJ The Rocket said:


> I've done a lot of thinking and testing and studying this. The short answer is no, one moderately well constructed cable sounds exactly as good as the next.
> 
> The long answer is it's complicated, but for 99.9% of applications one sounds as good as the next, and a lot of disagreement is more about how you define terms. A slightly different (I would say "wrong") definition of what "better sound quality" is will change the answer from yes to no.
> 
> ...


Too late for games I need sleep I’ll look at it in the morning lol!

Also I’ll ask a slightly different question, does different matierals have different sound signatures or qualities? Assuming the cables are both relatively well built but not madly expensive (don’t have the money to blow on premium cables haha) will there be a difference between pure copper and pure silver? Between silver lined copper and the other two?

Does the difference between ‘OFC’ and ‘OCC’ have an affect on sound?


So many questions... but. need. sleep. lol

I’ll be back to talk about it with you tomorrow because I find it very interesting especially with the varying opinions and such. I won’t derail the thread too much though.

All in the name of improving sound for my earbuds  Maybe ill recable one someday!


----------



## chaiyuta

ctaxxxx said:


> Honestly, I _really_ hate the expresso's cable color. I might just go for the SPC despite my earlier statement, since it will look better with the Svara's as well. I can always upgrade the cable later anyway.



If you have more budget for MMCX cable and focus on functionality and appearance. Mee Audio Universal Balanced cable might be meet your life-style usage. Unfortunately, I don't know where you could bought and which store could ship to your countries. Though I see only MEE Audio earphones are sold in aliexpress. 

Congrats that you already got AMP4. Enjoy listening. I am considering my next upgraded cable would be terminated as 4.4 mm plug. Also, 4.4 mm plug provides a bigger soldering point inside its barrel that is easier to solder 8-wire. YMMV.

@j4100 @DJ The Rocket : I've learnt Japanese and many kanji character are borrowed from Chinese, so I can guess what I should click and search typing on taobao store.  Due to language barrier, I don't find tech specs comparison between normal vs pro. Using Google translate. Pro version is tri-band balaced sound-sig, good for R&B, Classical, piano, slow vocal-centric song, not suitable to heavy rock metal song. And Pro version comes together with a white silver-color cable.


----------



## chinmie

vladstef said:


> Is there such a thing like a bright sounding budget bud? I've been thinking about Moondrop Nameless which is praised here but not exactly bright, so, something that's brighter but without that strong lower mid range that so many buds do.



Yes, from what I've heard: the edifier H185 (i even used full and donut foam combo for it), **** PT15, MX500 with thin foams, and going up in price there's the tomahawk, vx pro


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> I really like the new graphenes.  I have not heard the old ones but that's ok.  Nobody will ask me to compare



Indeed you like them... you inspired me to get them 

Thank you very much!



vladstef said:


> Is there such a thing like a bright sounding budget bud? I've been thinking about Moondrop Nameless which is praised here but not exactly bright, so, something that's brighter but without that strong lower mid range that so many buds do.





wskl said:


> Maybe look into **** PT15 and Monk Lite (40 ohm).



+1 for the PT15's.


----------



## chinmie

DJ The Rocket said:


> I've done a lot of thinking and testing and studying this. The short answer is no, one moderately well constructed cable sounds exactly as good as the next.
> 
> The long answer is it's complicated, but for 99.9% of applications one sounds as good as the next, and a lot of disagreement is more about how you define terms. A slightly different (I would say "wrong") definition of what "better sound quality" is will change the answer from yes to no.
> 
> ...



I'll try guessing: even when blind folded, usually we can still know the cable characteristics by it's feel, weight, microphonic sound, etc, so because of that, we, as the tester, is not an independent variable. The best way to measure them is to record the output with the same mic setting, and then blind test them by playing them back with the same speaker, or measure the wave with analyzers. I know this is not ideal because the speaker will have its own coloration, but at least we can make out if there is a definite difference between the two cables



seanc6441 said:


> Too late for games I need sleep I’ll look at it in the morning lol!
> 
> Also I’ll ask a slightly different question, does different matierals have different sound signatures or qualities? Assuming the cables are both relatively well built but not madly expensive (don’t have the money to blow on premium cables haha) will there be a difference between pure copper and pure silver? Between silver lined copper and the other two?
> 
> ...



If they have different impedance there sure will be difference in sound. I personally prefer buying an entirely new cans rather than recabling my existing earbuds to achieve improvement in sound. Unless of course buying an earbud that someone else have recabled beforehand.


----------



## chaiyuta

For those who are interested on cable technical specification, configuration, material, etc. -> Please go here.


----------



## BoomBap08 (Jan 18, 2018)

@vladstef Prolly the first version of the **** PT15. That thing was razor sharp/metallic the first and only time I tried it. You could also check Toneking buds as bright with very wide soundstage is kind of their house sound. There's also the NiceHCK DIY PK2 which sports a midcentric and bright signature.


----------



## chaiyuta

Today I bought a digital caliper called OKURA ODC-150.



 

O.D. of Penon BS1 Front Cover = 16.75 mm.


 

O.D. of Kinera Buds Front Cover = 16.07 mm.


 

Hope this helps.


----------



## Makahl

Hey guys. I lost my Monk v1 (black shell)  one of my favorite earbuds for its sound signature kinda veiled and powerful when paired with a good amp.

I have seen a lot of love to EMX500 now, I've already bought one and I'm waiting it arrives now. But reading old posts, do the problems regarding QC like such a bad driver placement causing bass issues still happening nowadays? Really hoping I won't find a lemon, lol. 

Also, can someone with Shozy BK and old graphenes (NiceHCK) confirm if their sound signature is kind of similar? Reading polarized opinions about graphene it's either "OMG it's so good!" or "Who's the deaf guy who tuned this earbud?".


----------



## j4100

chaiyuta said:


> Today I bought a digital caliper called OKURA ODC-150.
> 
> 
> O.D. of Penon BS1 Front Cover = 16.75 mm.
> ...



You are now the official thread earbud measurement officer 

Seriously though, a comparative list for all earbuds would help a lot of people to make better informed choices, if bud size / fit is an issue.


----------



## chaiyuta

@j4100 : Thanks. I will appreciate if someone sent me review unit to do measurement. lol


----------



## j4100

chaiyuta said:


> @j4100 : Thanks. I will appreciate if someone sent me review unit to do measurement. lol





I'm sure I have vernier calipers somewhere. I'll dig them out soon and measure the buds i have.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 18, 2018)

Makahl said:


> Hey guys. I lost my Monk v1 (black shell)  one of my favorite earbuds for its sound signature kinda veiled and powerful when paired with a good amp.
> 
> I have seen a lot of love to EMX500 now, I've already bought one and I'm waiting it arrives now. But reading old posts, do the problems regarding QC like such a bad driver placement causing bass issues still happening nowadays? Really hoping I won't find a lemon, lol.
> 
> Also, can someone with Shozy BK and old graphenes (NiceHCK) confirm if their sound signature is kind of similar? Reading polarized opinions about graphene it's either "OMG it's so good!" or "Who's the deaf guy who tuned this earbud?".


Not close at all tbh, I read that review on headfi comparing them but in reality they have different signatures.. BK is balanced and slightly warm. Graphene is slightly V shape and neutral.

Graphene is good for the price but I didn’t love it, BK is expensive but I absolutely adore it’s sound signature, perfect midrange and extended high + analog bass.


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> You are now the official thread earbud measurement officer
> 
> Seriously though, a comparative list for all earbuds would help a lot of people to make better informed choices, if bud size / fit is an issue.



That would certainly help but I am finding that fit for me involves more than just the diameter of the shell.  The shape, the curve, the fit of the stem (is there a special name for that part?)  all affect comfort for me.  This is why the Moondrop Nameless did not work for me.


----------



## vladstef

@seanc6441 , @chinmie , @waynes world , thank for suggestions. I don't actually prefer bright sound but I want to extract the driver and experiment a bit in some diy builds. **** PT15 is an excellent candidate given the low price.


On another hand, for some time now I had a pair of, what seamed, throw-away buds that I didn't even want to listen to (they were acquired from some sort of a bulk packaging and cost me like 0.5 euros, guy who was selling them had no idea how good they were, probably stolen goods from somewhere). Anyways, I put them in yesterday and I couldn't believe the sound. There is no branding nor logo of any kind, cable is Vido quality pretty much but they have a mic which makes me think that these are somewhat modern. Maybe someone knows what these are...
I opened them up and the driver is only held by this rubber ring - I cut the pieces that went over the driver and covered some of the holes so that only the ring remains. I knew that I had seen this driver design on aliexpress and I think this one is it, this was the look of the rubber cover. Quite expensive as far as stand alone earbud drivers go, not surprised to be honest.


----------



## B9Scrambler

vladstef said:


> @seanc6441 , @chinmie , @waynes world , thank for suggestions. I don't actually prefer bright sound but I want to extract the driver and experiment a bit in some diy builds. **** PT15 is an excellent candidate given the low price.
> 
> 
> On another hand, for some time now I had a pair of, what seamed, throw-away buds that I didn't even want to listen to (they were acquired from some sort of a bulk packaging and cost me like 0.5 euros, guy who was selling them had no idea how good they were, probably stolen goods from somewhere). Anyways, I put them in yesterday and I couldn't believe the sound. There is no branding nor logo of any kind, cable is Vido quality pretty much but they have a mic which makes me think that these are somewhat modern. Maybe someone knows what these are...
> I opened them up and the driver is only held by this rubber ring - I cut the pieces that went over the driver and covered some of the holes so that only the ring remains. I knew that I had seen this driver design on aliexpress and I think this one is it, this was the look of the rubber cover. Quite expensive as far as stand alone earbud drivers go, not surprised to be honest.



I've got a set of those kicking around somewhere but they're terminated in a 3pole 2.5mm jack. Wonder if they'd work through the Walnut F1's 2.5mm balanced out?


----------



## seanc6441

vladstef said:


> @seanc6441 , @chinmie , @waynes world , thank for suggestions. I don't actually prefer bright sound but I want to extract the driver and experiment a bit in some diy builds. **** PT15 is an excellent candidate given the low price.
> 
> 
> On another hand, for some time now I had a pair of, what seamed, throw-away buds that I didn't even want to listen to (they were acquired from some sort of a bulk packaging and cost me like 0.5 euros, guy who was selling them had no idea how good they were, probably stolen goods from somewhere). Anyways, I put them in yesterday and I couldn't believe the sound. There is no branding nor logo of any kind, cable is Vido quality pretty much but they have a mic which makes me think that these are somewhat modern. Maybe someone knows what these are...
> I opened them up and the driver is only held by this rubber ring - I cut the pieces that went over the driver and covered some of the holes so that only the ring remains. I knew that I had seen this driver design on aliexpress and I think this one is it, this was the look of the rubber cover. Quite expensive as far as stand alone earbud drivers go, not surprised to be honest.


Anything to compare to? As good as emx500/graphene? better?


----------



## vladstef (Jan 18, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Anything to compare to? As good as emx500/graphene? better?



Well, this might be an excellent way to practice, given that @B9Scrambler  has the same pair and he will give you a better idea. They are mid forward, very nice bass texture, smooth top end but not enough sparkle for me, bass actually goes down to 20Hz, although it's not loud. Vocals are very nice, better than EMX500, Vido. Kinda similar sound signature compared to Auglamour RX-1, but less punch in the lower-mid range I think. Also, the sound stage is more akin to RX-1 where it's atmospheric but not wide like EMX does.
This is just going from a quick listen and I didn't directly compare them to anything. Certainly the most value I've ever had given that I paid close to nothing for these 

These are very smooth that is certain. I am already thinking of recabling, this cable can't be any good and the sound might go up.


----------



## ctaxxxx

chaiyuta said:


> If you have more budget for MMCX cable and focus on functionality and appearance. Mee Audio Universal Balanced cable might be meet your life-style usage. Unfortunately, I don't know where you could bought and which store could ship to your countries. Though I see only MEE Audio earphones are sold in aliexpress.
> 
> Congrats that you already got AMP4. Enjoy listening. I am considering my next upgraded cable would be terminated as 4.4 mm plug. Also, 4.4 mm plug provides a bigger soldering point inside its barrel that is easier to solder 8-wire. YMMV.
> 
> @j4100 @DJ The Rocket : I've learnt Japanese and many kanji character are borrowed from Chinese, so I can guess what I should click and search typing on taobao store.  Due to language barrier, I don't find tech specs comparison between normal vs pro. Using Google translate. Pro version is tri-band balaced sound-sig, good for R&B, Classical, piano, slow vocal-centric song, not suitable to heavy rock metal song. And Pro version comes together with a white silver-color cable.



I really wish I saw this earlier. A cable and 3 right-angled adapters, all for $100?! Now I want my $50 back from Effect Audio for their expensive 2.5mm to 3.5mm right-angle adapter... And I just purchased iBasso's adapters as well...

For those wondering: It's on Amazon


----------



## golov17

ctaxxxx said:


> I really wish I saw this earlier. A cable and 3 right-angled adapters, all for $100?! Now I want my $50 back from Effect Audio for their expensive 2.5mm to 3.5mm right-angle adapter... And I just purchased iBasso's adapters as well...
> 
> For those wondering: It's on Amazon


MEE Audio MMCX 2.5mm Balanced Audio Cable with 3.5mm 4.4mm Stereo Adapter Set
http://s.aliexpress.com/IFNF7nqi


----------



## waynes world

Makahl said:


> Hey guys. I lost my Monk v1 (black shell)  one of my favorite earbuds for its sound signature kinda veiled and powerful when paired with a good amp.



Ouch. You don't want to be losing those!



> I have seen a lot of love to EMX500 now, I've already bought one and I'm waiting it arrives now. But reading old posts, do the problems regarding QC like such a bad driver placement causing bass issues still happening nowadays? Really hoping I won't find a lemon, lol.



You will find out soon enough my friend!


> Also, can someone with Shozy BK and old graphenes (NiceHCK) confirm if their sound signature is kind of similar? Reading polarized opinions about graphene it's either "OMG it's so good!" or "Who's the deaf guy who tuned this earbud?".



I am the deaf guy who tuned them. And OMG they are soooo good!!! 

I'll compare the Monks v1 with the graphenes, but they sound different for sure. The FAAEAL Snow Lotus 2.0 may be quite similar (I'll check).



seanc6441 said:


> Not close at all tbh, I read that review on headfi comparing them but in reality they have different signatures.. BK is balanced and slightly warm. Graphene is slightly V shape and neutral.



Just checking: have you heard the Monk v1? I ask because they are pretty rare.


----------



## chaiyuta

@ctaxxxx : this product just released in Nov 2017.. I also own Effect Audio adapter (Straight-type) and CA02. Since I prefer straight-type rather than L-type, I am satisfied. 
@golov17 : Thanks for your link. You are good at searching aliexpress than me.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

seanc6441 said:


> Too late for games I need sleep I’ll look at it in the morning lol!



Fair enough, but if you figure it out without being told you'll never forget it again! I'll finish what I was writing today regardless. 



> Also I’ll ask a slightly different question, does different matierals have different sound signatures or qualities? Assuming the cables are both relatively well built but not madly expensive (don’t have the money to blow on premium cables haha) will there be a difference between pure copper and pure silver? Between silver lined copper and the other two?
> 
> Does the difference between ‘OFC’ and ‘OCC’ have an affect on sound?



Will get to this. .



seanc6441 said:


> All in the name of improving sound for my earbuds  Maybe ill recable one someday!



Not really going to affect the sound unless something was rotten, but it's well worth it for aesthetics/ergonomics, and occasionally reviving an old bud back from the dead is always satisfying 



mbwilson111 said:


> That would certainly help but I am finding that fit for me involves more than just the diameter of the shell.  The shape, the curve, the fit of the stem (is there a special name for that part?)  all affect comfort for me.  This is why the Moondrop Nameless did not work for me.



Good observations, and you're right, this is why the relatively small diameter MX985 is so hard to wear. I also agree that getting precise faceplate measurements is still very useful, it gives us a consistent baseline to make better judgements about angles and whatnot from.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 18, 2018)

DJ The Rocket said:


> Fair enough, but if you figure it out without being told you'll never forget it again! I'll finish what I was writing today regardless.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The only true xxxxx test would be using two of the same earbuds, with different cables but both covered in the same outer wrap, say black rubberised finish. Then everything would appear identical except the cables would be different?

Also for me the sound may ‘improve’ merely by being different. Say for instance if a copper cable sounded warmer and more bassy, and a silver cable more trebley and more neutral then you could consider that an improvement depending on your preferences.

But many people disbelieve that any change occurs at all assuming the impendance isn’t altered significantly, whilst others will describe in detail how the sound has changed with a new cable.

Seems like the only ‘option’ is to listen for yourself but then there’s the cost of that and the factor of ‘this cable doesn’t pair well with this driver’ which may have you doubting if the cable you bought is the ‘right’ one or not.

It’s all very subjective and confusing!


----------



## silverfishla (Jan 18, 2018)

ctaxxxx said:


> I really wish I saw this earlier. A cable and 3 right-angled adapters, all for $100?! Now I want my $50 back from Effect Audio for their expensive 2.5mm to 3.5mm right-angle adapter... And I just purchased iBasso's adapters as well...
> 
> For those wondering: It's on Amazon


Or you could have gotten this and attatched your own cable to these.  Iphone connector too!
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5-I...de9b4d7&transAbTest=ae803_5&priceBeautifyAB=1


----------



## DJ The Rocket

seanc6441 said:


> The only true blind test would be using two of the same earbuds, with different cables but both covered in the same outer wrap, say black rubberised finish. Then everything would appear identical except the cables would be different?



You and the other guy who took a stab (can't think of his handle) are both thinking along the right lines, but not quite getting the right details. I think you'll both get it eventually, but it would help if you actually experienced the test I described. I did experience it, like I experienced the nagging feeling that something wasn't adding up right. My honest observations didn't match up with my understanding of how things work, in fact they were in sharp disagreement. For awhile I just concluded that maybe cables really do effect sound quality, even though the supposed mechanisms for that effect were dubious. Not looking forward to randomly coming across posts I made during that time period. 

I swear I'm not trying to keep you in suspense, or drag this out to artificially add drama to the "reveal" later. It just makes the most sense to do it all at once. 

Maybe a more direct hint? Encountering a Litz cable in a context outside of audio is what spurred me over the finish line  Is that too obtuse?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 18, 2018)

DJ The Rocket said:


> s that too obtuse?



Probably.  I am not even trying to solve this... lol.  Just hide the answer in a spoiler and people who want to work it out can click on it when they are ready.

Are you a professor in real life?


----------



## seanc6441

DJ The Rocket said:


> You and the other guy who took a stab (can't think of his handle) are both thinking along the right lines, but not quite getting the right details. I think you'll both get it eventually, but it would help if you actually experienced the test I described. I did experience it, like I experienced the nagging feeling that something wasn't adding up right. My honest observations didn't match up with my understanding of how things work, in fact they were in sharp disagreement. For awhile I just concluded that maybe cables really do effect sound quality, even though the supposed mechanisms for that effect were dubious. Not looking forward to randomly coming across posts I made during that time period.
> 
> I swear I'm not trying to keep you in suspense, or drag this out to artificially add drama to the "reveal" later. It just makes the most sense to do it all at once.
> 
> Maybe a more direct hint? Encountering a Litz cable in a context outside of audio is what spurred me over the finish line  Is that too obtuse?



Sorry man I have no idea as I’ve never experienced the test and wouldn’t know what would influence your answer other than sound.


----------



## seanc6441

silverfishla said:


> Or you could have gotten this and attatched your own cable to these.  Iphone connector too!
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5-I...de9b4d7&transAbTest=ae803_5&priceBeautifyAB=1


I don’t quite understand the iphone one. Don’t you need an external dac/amp dongle to use lightning port with ‘analog’ cables?

How would this work without a dac-amp inside the unit?


----------



## Saoshyant

@DJ The Rocket  Just a reminder, any discussion of ABX, Blind Testing, etc is against posting rules unless done in the Sound Science forums.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

@Saoshyant what, really? I had heard that, but I thought it was somebody making a joke about how uptight the forums sometimes are after the, uh, unfortunate incident in 2011. I didn't believe that was serious!

Are you a moderator here, or just a concerned citizen? It doesn't make any difference, if you're right already then being a moderator wouldn't make you more right. Could you point me to where the rules are written?

I long ago decided that I can't afford to play fast and loose with forum rules here, getting banned and losing access to the for sale forums would be a monumental setback. So if following the rules prevents that, then I'm all for following the rules. I just need to understand them first.

If it hasn't been removed already I can edit out the blind testing part of my earlier comments easily enough, it wasn't necessary to make my point to begin with. ABX will be trickier, but isn't that totally unenforceable? Is it possible to do a subjective product evaluation with out comparing that product to its competitors?  Comparisons are literally the backbone of communication here! There's no context otherwise, and none of our personal impressions would have any meaning in a vaccuum! I hardly ever do a _formal_ ABX test...where's the line between what's allowed and what isn't? If I listen to a track with the Yincrow X6, and then the same track with the Mr.Z Ting right after because I want to see which hits the bassline harder, is that ABX? I think it's the same thing with a different label, and it probably happens twice in every forum every few seconds


----------



## Saoshyant

Very bottom of page, Rules and Terms of Use.  New site designs hide things somewhat


----------



## DJ The Rocket

All we get is this: 





> 5.f what you want to post includes words/phrases like "placebo," "expectation bias," "ABX," "blind testing," etc., please post it in the Sound Science forum.


Not especially elucidating, but it does seem clear on the fact that the most fundamental tools we have to try to understand our aural perception, and to communicate that understanding once we have it, are by rule off limits. I don't know what to think about that.

Maybe I should just limit myself to posting in the Sound Science forums only from now on. :/

I've really enjoyed talking to everyone in this thread, and I appreciate all the help getting me up to speed with the current state of chi-fi earbuds!


----------



## Saoshyant

I believe I understand the purpose of their intent, and as I like it here I willingly abide by their wishes.  Plus if everyone just blew off the guidelines like repeatedly discussing a banned seller for example, the thread might get locked.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 18, 2018)

DJ The Rocket said:


> All we get is this:
> Not especially elucidating, but it does seem clear on the fact that the most fundamental tools we have to try to understand our aural perception, and to communicate that understanding once we have it, are by rule off limits. I don't know what to think about that.
> 
> Maybe I should just limit myself to posting in the Sound Science forums only from now on. :/
> ...


We can still compare we just cannot use terms like ABX, Blind testing as evidence to our points I assume.

I’m sure it’s pretty easy to work around those definitions by using plain english instead of these audio specific terms.

Not that I agree with the censorship of these words but if it’s the rules lets just abide by it as it’s not really an issue in recent times on this forum.

I’ll edit my post too I guess.

You can still let me know if you’re heard any subtle differences in tonality or soundstage or certain frequencies even when changing cables especially of different composition. Thanks! That’s the part I’m interested in because it doesn’t always cost an arm and a leg to buy cables with different material if you look hard enough and if it has any effect at all on the sound it would be nice to know from the mouth of someone who seems to have tested this stuff.


----------



## phthora (Jan 18, 2018)

@DJ The Rocket There are a number of topics (whether cables make any difference and whether burn-in makes any difference being the big two) that tend to derail conversations. Likewise, there are a number of dismissive comments that people can make (calling someone a 'troll,' claiming expectation bias or placebo effect, etc.) that tend to do the same. In the interest of not turning Head-Fi into a ridiculous shouting match on wildly tangential topics, there are some oddly specific rules. Blind-testing is one of those nettlesome topics. It tends to rile people up and make them type things they shouldn't. Just mentioning those topics probably won't get you into trouble, but it is at the discretion of the mods and they are an inscrutable sort at times. Personally, I don't mind because I have seen the alternative on other sites and it is an angry, unproductive place.

And then there is the simple matter of etiquette. @Saoshyant was just politely pointing out that the discussion was straying off topic. And it was. Time to get back to discussing earbuds, buds.


----------



## Blackground

Does anyone own or has heard the Astrotec Collection model? I really want to get a Mojito but am very hesitant given the qc. 

Are their any Mojito alternatives? I am seeking an earbud with a neutral signature that extends both ways (ie sub bass and expansive sound stage) but is balanced and has clarity with excellent detail retrieval. 

If it really comes down to it, I may just start experimenting with mods to create this ideal earbud.


----------



## chaiyuta

@Saoshyant @phthora : Totally agreed. Likes I previously commented before. If those who interested on cable configuration, tech specs, etc for using with small earphones likes IEMs or earbuds please go, read or ask in this thread. or any cable discussion thread.


----------



## chaiyuta

@Blackground : I ever tried Astrotec Classic. My problem is its O.D. size is bigger than MX500 shell which I can't get it fit and sit on my ears well. YMMV. In term of SQ, I don't impressed it. From my memory, It provides neutral tonality and more width than average sound stage.

By the way, there is a review from Audio123, here.


----------



## chaiyuta

seanc6441 said:


> I don’t quite understand the iphone one. Don’t you need an external dac/amp dongle to use lightning port with ‘analog’ cables?
> 
> How would this work without a dac-amp inside the unit?


Refer to this Link, There is a small DAC/AMP inside Lightning connector.


----------



## vladstef

chaiyuta said:


> Refer to this Link, There is a small DAC/AMP inside Lightning connector.



Sorry for going further off topic. I am amazed how knowledgeable people in different publications keep calling it lightning to 3.5mm "adapter", it's a full DAC/AMP combo. It is essentially the same as calling Chord Mojo an adapter because it converts your lightning port to 3.5mm port for headphones, which is ridiculous. 
Adapters are only meant to do rewiring of sorts and adapt the same type of signal with a certain interface to another one. In another words, no two "USB to 3.5mm adapters" are the same and could potentially function like completely different devices.


----------



## golov17

Back to the topic: If I was not aware of the cost of VE Monk lite 120 Ohm, paid for them for example 60 usd, I would be very pleased .. but they cost only 10! OMG..
Really like Zen lite ii


----------



## j4100

My Zen lite (with RA+) have been dispatched. I guess I should have tried the Monk Lite 120 Ohm as well!

I'm eager to hear this combo.


----------



## wskl

golov17 said:


> Back to the topic: If I was not aware of the cost of VE Monk lite 120 Ohm, paid for them for example 60 usd, I would be very pleased .. but they cost only 10! OMG..
> Really like Zen lite ii



I'm really glad that I bought the Monk Lite 120 ohm during the first launch as it seems they will only be sold in limited quantities now, starting today there are only 10 units on sale so grab them while you can.

I have also joined the Zen Lite club 


_*Xduoo X3, RA+, Zen Lite*_


----------



## waynes world

golov17 said:


> Back to the topic: If I was not aware of the cost of VE Monk lite 120 Ohm, paid for them for example 60 usd, I would be very pleased .. but they cost only 10! OMG..
> Really like Zen lite ii





wskl said:


> I'm really glad that I bought the Monk Lite 120 ohm during the first launch as it seems they will only be sold in limited quantities now, starting today there are only 10 units on sale so grab them while you can.
> 
> I have also joined the Zen Lite club
> 
> ...



Snagged the monk lite 120. Thanks guys!


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 19, 2018)

wskl said:


> I'm really glad that I bought the Monk Lite 120 ohm during the first launch as it seems they will only be sold in limited quantities now, starting today there are only 10 units on sale so grab them while you can.



Just checked and they are gone now but there are to be more next week I think.  Anyone interested should keep track of the VE  facebook page.



waynes world said:


> Snagged the monk lite 120. Thanks guys!



Me too!  I got mine exactly when it became available... 6am my time... now it is 7:25 so back to sleep for me... this is the middle of the night... lol.  I was too excited when I actually managed to get one that I knew I would not be able to fall right back to sleep.  I was shaking... lol.

I wonder if you got the last one.  There were only 10 Monk LIte 120ohm Standard Editon for today.

You can get the 120 ohm with the SPC cable anytime but it costs more and I liked the look of the pure white standard cable with the white/silver shell.


----------



## golov17 (Jan 19, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Just checked and they are gone now but there are to be more next week I think.  Anyone interested should keep track of the VE  facebook page.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


fast 
https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=24


----------



## j4100

I didn't realise they were going to be in limited supply. Might need to snag one soon.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 19, 2018)

golov17 said:


> fast
> https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=24



I actually thought they would be gone within 2 minutes!  I thought hundreds of people were sitting at their PC like me... refreshing the page twice per minute until it became available.  I started doing that a few minutes before.



j4100 said:


> I didn't realise they were going to be in limited supply. Might need to snag one soon.



Only the 120 ohm $6 Standard versions is limited.  The 120ohm with the SPC cable for $20 is not limited.  Neither is the 40 ohm Standard or SPC.

I ordered a 40 ohm last week and it has shipped.

need to sleep... only have had 3 or 4 hours so far...


----------



## euge (Jan 19, 2018)

golov17 said:


> Back to the topic: If I was not aware of the cost of VE Monk lite 120 Ohm, paid for them for example 60 usd, I would be very pleased .. but they cost only 10! OMG..
> Really like Zen lite ii



Ordered the 120ohm SPC, 1st of 2018 lol


----------



## golov17




----------



## letlive (Jan 19, 2018)

I'm looking for something new *with mic* (already have the Vido and EMX500). Any recommendations? I thought about the new Monk Lite. Would be interesting how it compares to the EMX500 (somebody has both?). Or maybe the MEMT X6?


----------



## chaiyuta

@golov17 : Yeah... My name + Surname. lol


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 19, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> @Saoshyant @phthora : Totally agreed. Likes I previously commented before. If those who interested on cable configuration, tech specs, etc for using with small earphones likes IEMs or earbuds please go, read or ask in this thread. or any cable discussion thread.





chaiyuta said:


> @golov17 : Yeah... My name + Surname. lol


Impressively long 

oh and the reason I mentioned it here and not in cable forum, well, because sometimes asking in a forum as specific as that means your likely to get answer from people who have been ingrained in the cable community a long time and not ‘neutrals’ as you would have here? But as per the rules we should not debate about it in here (not that we were doing so).


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Impressively long



You obviously haven't seen my full name yet


----------



## seanc6441

seanc6441 said:


> Impressively long





chinmie said:


> You obviously haven't seen my full name yet



There’s a joke in there somewhere


----------



## chinmie

Really loving this at the moment, the sound is analog-y, warm and thick, while still having enough clarity. Similar to monk, but with better bass response. Great buds, especially considering the less than 3 dollars asking price

I usually don't like warm sounding 'phones, but this one is one of those rare and lovely exception


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> There’s a joke in there somewhere



Unfortunately not


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 19, 2018)

thanks @golov17 I just ordered the 120 ohm monk lite and it’s all your fault! 

I got the standard cable version and if I love them enough I may recable down the line!

Really wish they came in matte black like the zen lite, but that’s just me being picky.


----------



## golov17

@golov17[/USER] I just ordered the 120 ohm monk lite and it’s all your fault! 

I got the standard cable version and if I love them enough I may recable down the line!

Really wish they came in matte black like the zen lite, but that’s just me being picky.[/QUOTE]
Well.. I also have to blame someone for BS1 lol


----------



## golov17

https://shop.m.taobao.com/shop/shop....shop.2&user_id=78933015&item_id=562597255017


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 19, 2018)

@golov17 is that the shozy bk ‘posideon’ and original shozy earbud?


----------



## seanc6441

golov17 said:


> @golov17[/USER] I just ordered the 120 ohm monk lite and it’s all your fault!
> 
> I got the standard cable version and if I love them enough I may recable down the line!
> 
> Really wish they came in matte black like the zen lite, but that’s just me being picky.


Well.. I also have to blame someone for BS1 lol [/QUOTE]


Touche!


----------



## Mimouille

Just got a Shozy BK in, really nice build. Do you guys use silicon rings with them?


----------



## chaiyuta

@golov17 : Did you get yours? Both? or picture from others?


----------



## seanc6441

Mimouille said:


> Just got a Shozy BK in, really nice build. Do you guys use silicon rings with them?


No just the original or regular donuts for the best balance. Atleast for me anyway.

First impressions?


----------



## chaiyuta (Jan 19, 2018)

OMG. there is a customer who ordered 4.4 mm. Plug option. The plug looks nicer than I thought, though the braid craftmanship is.....


----------



## seanc6441

letlive said:


> I'm looking for something new *with mic* (already have the Vido and EMX500). Any recommendations? I thought about the new Monk Lite. Would be interesting how it compares to the EMX500 (somebody has both?). Or maybe the MEMT X6?


how much do you want to spend? Do you prefer Vido or emx500’s sound? Do you want something different than those two for variety or are you looking for an upgrade on this sound signature?


----------



## letlive

seanc6441 said:


> how much do you want to spend? Do you prefer Vido or emx500’s sound? Do you want something different than those two for variety or are you looking for an upgrade on this sound signature?


I prefer the EMX500, an upgrade would be great! The new ones would be for sports, so let's say about ~25 USD. Thanks!


----------



## seanc6441

letlive said:


> I prefer the EMX500, an upgrade would be great! The new ones would be for sports, so let's say about ~25 USD. Thanks!



hmmm for $25 it’s going to be difficult to find an upgrade with the same mild U shape signature. The EMX500 are very very good for $10 and imo the $20-25 graphene’s are a sidegrade with a different signature.

I usually recommend the Rose Masya as a true upgrade because of its excellent extension of bass and treble but also having a much better midrange (its balanced sound) but feels like the U shape of emx500 because of how it extends and how clean clear and unbloated the midrange is.

But that’s neither suitable for sports or in your price range.

You could check out the Toneking TP16, if it’s signature is like the Toneking Tomahawk it’s a worthy choice but honestly I’d call it a sidegrade too most likely...

It’s really a challenge to find a better earbud under $25 with the same signature, you’ll probably have to spend 30-40 for an upgrade.

Anything wrong with the emx500 for sports? are you looking for a better fit? more durability?


----------



## letlive

Thank you! I guess I stick with the EMX500, durability and fit are ok. I'm not sure if I should order another EMX500 exclusively for sports or try the Monk Lite. But if the Monk Lite is more neutral than Monk Plus, than it's definitely not an option for me.


----------



## Mimouille

seanc6441 said:


> No just the original or regular donuts for the best balance. Atleast for me anyway.
> 
> First impressions?


These are my first earbuds since 1994, so need some time. I just listened 2mn but they sound nice.


----------



## seanc6441

letlive said:


> Thank you! I guess I stick with the EMX500, durability and fit are ok. I'm not sure if I should order another EMX500 exclusively for sports or try the Monk Lite. But if the Monk Lite is more neutral than Monk Plus, than it's definitely not an option for me.



I’ve tried many of the budget buds and I suggest you stick to emx500 if you like it and when your ready to upgrade down the line for a more premium bud you could save the emx500 for sport and such. Infact the emx500 is really perfect for sports because it’s cheap but sounds great for the price.

A proper upgrade would be Penon BS1 official, Rose Masya etc. These buds are around $90 but anything in between will only be a marginal upgrade I feel. Such is the performance of budget earbuds these days.


----------



## seanc6441

Mimouille said:


> These are my first earbuds since 1994, so need some time. I just listened 2mn but they sound nice.


Eow then I’ll give you te to enjoy the earbud and btw great choice! BK are a special earbud


----------



## golov17

chaiyuta said:


> @golov17 : Did you get yours? Both? or picture from others?


Nono. pics from Taobao buyers


----------



## Mimouille

seanc6441 said:


> Eow then I’ll give you te to enjoy the earbud and btw great choice! BK are a special earbud


Yes, they are my test to see if I should get back in the earbud game


----------



## seanc6441

Mimouille said:


> Yes, they are my test to see if I should get back in the earbud game


As good a bud as any to get you interested, excellent midrange quality and textured vocals.


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> Me too!  I got mine exactly when it became available... 6am my time... now it is 7:25 so back to sleep for me... this is the middle of the night... lol.  I was too excited when I actually managed to get one that I knew I would not be able to fall right back to sleep.  I was shaking... lol.



It was an exciting rollercoaster for me as well lol. In the span of 3 minutes, I went from knowing nothing about the Monk Lite 120, to getting very interested in them after reading Oleg's "OMG" (you don't see that too often!), to getting slightly anxious after reading wski's "grab them while you can", to full freak out while trying to order them on my phone via VE's website (that was turning out to be challenging), to then sighing with relief when I saw the aliexpress button and was able to easily get them ordered. Nothing like a Monk Lite 120 ordering adrenaline rush!


----------



## BrunoC

Well, the cheaper 120ohm white version is not available anymore on Aliexpress... Bummer!


----------



## golov17 (Jan 19, 2018)

Hehe

Next Trap!


----------



## mbwilson111

BrunoC said:


> Well, the cheaper 120ohm white version is not available anymore on Aliexpress... Bummer!



According to the VE facebook page, he will be releasing a few each week.  No word yet for the day and time next week.  Be patient.

I know...difficult to be patient


----------



## seanc6441

BrunoC said:


> Well, the cheaper 120ohm white version is not available anymore on Aliexpress... Bummer!


I bought the last one for today... sorry!


----------



## antdroid

seanc6441 said:


> I bought the last one for today... sorry!



I just ordered one on VEClan.com


----------



## mbwilson111

antdroid said:


> I just ordered one on VEClan.com



The $6 standard edition?  Did they already add more?


----------



## seanc6441

antdroid said:


> I just ordered one on VEClan.com


Oh then Aliexpress was sold out.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> The $6 standard edition?  Did they already add more?


The $6 120 ohm white silver one yeah, on Aliexpress.


----------



## antdroid

mbwilson111 said:


> The $6 standard edition?  Did they already add more?



Oops. Sorry. I ordered the SPC one. My mistake.


----------



## chaiyuta (Jan 19, 2018)

I own two.


----------



## doggiemom

mbwilson111 said:


> Only the 120 ohm $6 Standard versions is limited.


Oh, I have that...... yeh, me!


----------



## mbwilson111

doggiemom said:


> Oh, I have that...... yeh, me!



I will...just not sure how long it take to arrive.  I hope you like yours.


----------



## doggiemom

mbwilson111 said:


> I will...just not sure how long it take to arrive.  I hope you like yours.


VE ships pretty quickly...... faster than most Ali sellers, in my limited experience.  It depends on the post, but hopefully you will not have to wait long.


----------



## waynes world

doggiemom said:


> VE ships pretty quickly...... faster than most Ali sellers, in my limited experience.  It depends on the post, but hopefully you will not have to wait long.



How do you like them?


----------



## doggiemom

waynes world said:


> How do you like them?


Please don't smack me for saying this, but I haven't listened to them yet.    I ordered the Silver Black 40 Ohm SPC TRRS Monk Lite at the same time, and have been enjoying those very much for the last few days.  But today my husband went to the Post Office to pick up the Camp Fred 2 that have been waiting there for a week......... so at the moment I am listening to them.

Initial talking out of my a$$ thoughts (because I haven't spent much time with any of them):
- 120 Ohm silver white: comfy shells, but put them away to listen to the SPC TRRS.  Similar to Monk+ tuning, but sacrifice a bit of soundstage for a better fit (for my ear size, at least).  Can't beat the price though!
- Silver Black 40 Ohm SPC TRRS:  These are a more mature Monk (though it could be the DAC/amp I was using, Geekout V2+ Infinity........ the balanced output always sounds better to me)
- Camp Fred 2:  Herry stated that these need 150 hours of burn in.  I have limited listening time (I work a lot!), so never burn in anything as recommended.  OOTB, these are already a favorite.  They sound like the K's Samsaras on steroids:  very engaging and fun to listen to, but more detailed with better separation.  I also have the Black (thanks to a member of this forum), and I would liken those to the Utopia in that they are pretty close to neutral and very detailed.  The Camp Fred 2 is accurate but more forgiving of poor recordings.  (I love cheesy pop!)  These could easily become my every day, want to enjoy the music but doing something else, go-tos.  We shall see!


----------



## vladstef

Managed to find the earbuds that I mentioned before, they are stock BlackBerry earbuds. They can be found for <5$, while their drivers are 15$ on Aliexpress, go figure... Amp them and reduce mid range with EQ and they are a step up from EMX500 - more stable bass and sub, more resolution in mid range, less treble extension - I am using them with Lg V20 on high impedance mode with EQ only for reducing mid range (practically boosting bass and treble) - the drivers are taking it like champs.
Their stock tuning is veiled a bit and way too mid forward but when you have this much of a headroom for bass and treble you can do anything honestly.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 19, 2018)

vladstef said:


> Managed to find the earbuds that I mentioned before, they are stock BlackBerry earbuds. They can be found for <5$, while their drivers are 15$ on Aliexpress, go figure... Amp them and reduce mid range with EQ and they are a step up from EMX500 - more stable bass and sub, more resolution in mid range, less treble extension - I am using them with Lg V20 on high impedance mode with EQ only for reducing mid range (practically boosting bass and treble) - the drivers are taking it like champs.
> Their stock tuning is veiled a bit and way too mid forward but when you have this much of a headroom for bass and treble you can do anything honestly.


How do you find the V20 for earbuds? Personally I wasn’t satisfied overall with the lack of vocal/midrange body and somewhat narrowly presented soundstage in the name of forwardness (crossfeed maybe?).

It’s the same issue I had with my other sabre dac device, I will soon try the Meizu pro 5 and if I dislike that I’ll know for certain the sabre dacs are just not for me.

Once I used EQ settings for bass boost and surround sound and just turning on snapdragon audio + EQ in general made them sound slightly warmer and slightly more solid low end/lower mids, also I could use the surround feature to widen the soundstage slightly. Which made them just ‘good’ and better detailed and more extended than my 6s but without quiet the same weight behind the midrange.

To me the sabre dac pushes detail but at the cost of soundinga little brittle/weak in terms of what is natural and should be more full sounding in my opinion. It’s more noticeable on deeper heavy vocals obviously but it’s something I look for in my music.

What is your opinion on the V20?, I know high impendance mode gives them more warmth to bring them up to neutral levels, (low impendance sounds cold) but I was expecting a little more out of them in terms of the ‘power’ behind that strong amp inside, I though it would translate to the sound sig but it doesn’t seem so.


----------



## vladstef

seanc6441 said:


> How do you find the V20 for earbuds? Personally I wasn’t satisfied overall with the lack of vocal/midrange body and somewhat narrowly presented soundstage in the name of forwardness (crossfeed maybe?).
> 
> It’s the same issue I had with my other sabre dac device, I will soon try the Meizu pro 5 and if I dislike that I’ll know for certain the sabre dacs are just not for me.
> 
> ...



I like how V20 sounds now, although I couldn't say the same until Neutron Player came up with their own audio decoder that bypasses Android's limitations - not only that, but I find that Neutron adds (or other players take away) a bit of that missing warmth and even the low impedance mode sounds kinda ok - high impedance is still much preferred for earbuds in particular, they just sound fuller and overall better (I am very confident in making this generalization). I agree that sound stage should be better, but that would make it close to ideal and you can't have that for 300$ (plus a phone on top of it). The biggest issue I have with V20 is harshness in the lower treble, although I am applying a very serious standard when saying this. There is a justified reason why people love V20's output, you can't do much better even in DAP world for the price - unless you prefer more warm/analogue sound and then you can consider other options. I am not sure that there are phones that have the same overall sound quality but warmer approach, there just aren't enough options.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 19, 2018)

vladstef said:


> I like how V20 sounds now, although I couldn't say the same until Neutron Player came up with their own audio decoder that bypasses Android's limitations - not only that, but I find that Neutron adds (or other players take away) a bit of that missing warmth and even the low impedance mode sounds kinda ok - high impedance is still much preferred for earbuds in particular, they just sound fuller and overall better (I am very confident in making this generalization). I agree that sound stage should be better, but that would make it close to ideal and you can't have that for 300$ (plus a phone on top of it). The biggest issue I have with V20 is harshness in the lower treble, although I am applying a very serious standard when saying this. There is a justified reason why people love V20's output, you can't do much better even in DAP world for the price - unless you prefer more warm/analogue sound and then you can consider other options. I am not sure that there are phones that have the same overall sound quality but warmer approach, there just aren't enough options.


Meizu pro 5 is supposedly of similar quality overall but with a warmer more ‘natural’ or analog sound compared to the v20 slightly more detailed analytical and digital approach.

I know what you mean by the lower treble harshness, some cymbals or notes hit a bit ‘rough’ and isn’t quite as smooth as the mids. But I didn’t really mind that as much as the lower mids being somewhat brittle and overall I think it lacks abit of ‘life’ but that’s my personal preference I guess.

It’s just with all the hype and praise the V20 got I wasn’t expecting not to love it’s sound lol

I’ll let you know what I feel about the Meizu when I receive it, the guy who created the ‘audiophile smartphone’ thread on headfi recommended it very highly for an alternative to the V20’s signature and it was either the pro 5 or the HTC 10 which is considered more on the warm and fun side and personally I prefer a natural-slightly warm but more reference or flat sound for my source and let the earbuds themselves do the ‘fun’ aspect or sound more true to their house tuning.

The pro 5 is also considered warm but most have praised it as natural and detailed and not overly warm or dark. Although apparently the treble is more recessed than the v20 but maybe that’s not a terrible thing considering how revealing the v20 can be in the treble.


----------



## SweetEars

anyone tried this ?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/GM5...952211.html?shortkey=32aqIvUJ&addresstype=600


----------



## j4100

Adhi has carefully packed my Rholupat order and shipped it off. I ordered from there after recommendations on here and EA and I'm pleased I did. Great service and communications from Adhi. Now for the wait.


----------



## chaiyuta

New toys coming~

Ty Hi-Z 800 Ohm Trail Version : 102$, 3.5 mm. SE plug, 4-braid SPC cable
Ty Hi-Z 150 Ohm Tuning for Sony Players : 47$, 4.4 mm. BL plug, 8-braid SPC cable, 'High Gain' setting is preferred.


----------



## j4100

chaiyuta said:


> New toys coming~
> 
> Ty Hi-Z 800 Ohm Trail Version : 102$, 3.5 mm. SE plug, 4-braid SPC cable



I had a feeling you might buy these  
I'm interested, but have too much stuff on the way just now, plus I haven't delved into Taobao buying yet.


Out of interest, what are these black gold earbuds I keep seeing pictures of? DIY?


----------



## chaiyuta

@j4100 : No, I just report news haha. But Ty Hi-Z 150 Ohm 4.4 mm. plug earbuds looks instresting...


----------



## theoutsider (Jan 20, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> New toys coming~
> 
> Ty Hi-Z 800 Ohm Trail Version : 102$, 3.5 mm. SE plug, 4-braid SPC cable
> Ty Hi-Z 150 Ohm Tuning for Sony Players : 47$, 4.4 mm. BL plug, 8-braid SPC cable, 'High Gain' setting is preferred.


Just wondering how do you plan to drive the 800Ω baby?


----------



## chaiyuta

@theoutsider : For this question, you have to ask Mr. Anyang Su.. I have no idea.


----------



## seanc6441

SweetEars said:


> anyone tried this ?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/GM5...952211.html?shortkey=32aqIvUJ&addresstype=600


Nope never saw that one before


----------



## noknok23

theoutsider said:


> Just wondering how do you plan to drive the 800Ω baby?


Probably something like the aune B1s should be enough. I'm excited. Waiting to see more 800ohm models pop up in the coming weeks


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Jan 20, 2018)

theoutsider said:


> Just wondering how do you plan to drive the 800Ω baby?



Wait, are you _flirting?_


----------



## theoutsider (Jan 20, 2018)

DJ The Rocket said:


> I wouldn't exactly call this a negative experience, but I had a rough neutral one with Hothifi on aliexpress. I ordered a Svara-L, but instead of the one in the picture they're trying to get me to take one with "Escase" printed on the back in a really ugly font. Not going to lie, it looks dumb to me that way. I'm certain it would look better in the context of someone else's style of dress, but it's not for me.
> 
> I'll give them credit for actually asking me if it was okay instead of just shipping it quietly as a little surprise. Ideally it wouldn't take 4 days of a slow email back-and-forth to accomplish that much, and I could have done without having it pushed on me, but neither of us speak the same language so I'd believe it if it wasn't intended that way.
> 
> ...


So you were not okay with 'escase' yet you butchered the seller's company name 

and yes, baby.


----------



## DBaldock9

seanc6441 said:


> Meizu pro 5 is supposedly of similar quality overall but with a warmer more ‘natural’ or analog sound compared to the v20 slightly more detailed analytical and digital approach.
> 
> I know what you mean by the lower treble harshness, some cymbals or notes hit a bit ‘rough’ and isn’t quite as smooth as the mids. But I didn’t really mind that as much as the lower mids being somewhat brittle and overall I think it lacks abit of ‘life’ but that’s my personal preference I guess.
> 
> ...



Sort-of on-topic question - Is your LG V20 the H990DS model?  Have you tried rooting, and installing alternate ROMs, and audio processing apps - like Viper4Android?
I know that the LG V20 audio amplifier has several modes of operation, depending on the impedance of the earbuds/earphones that are connected.
Have you noticed any significant differences in performance, when you connect your high impedance earbuds?

I've been seriously considering replacing my old Google Nexus 5 phone, with the carrier unlocked US version (model US996), rooting and installing LineageOS 14.1 (Android 7.1.2 (Nougat)), Xposed Framework, along with Viper4Android (or other, newer audio processing S/W).


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> Sort-of on-topic question - Is your LG V20 the H990DS model?  Have you tried rooting, and installing alternate ROMs, and audio processing apps - like Viper4Android?
> I know that the LG V20 audio amplifier has several modes of operation, depending on the impedance of the earbuds/earphones that are connected.
> Have you noticed any significant differences in performance, when you connect your high impedance earbuds?
> 
> I've been seriously considering replacing my old Google Nexus 5 phone, with the carrier unlocked US version (model US996), rooting and installing LineageOS 14.1 (Android 7.1.2 (Nougat)), Xposed Framework, along with Viper4Android (or other, newer audio processing S/W).



Isn't the LG V30 supposed to be the audio-cat's meow?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 20, 2018)

DBaldock9 said:


> Sort-of on-topic question - Is your LG V20 the H990DS model?  Have you tried rooting, and installing alternate ROMs, and audio processing apps - like Viper4Android?
> I know that the LG V20 audio amplifier has several modes of operation, depending on the impedance of the earbuds/earphones that are connected.
> Have you noticed any significant differences in performance, when you connect your high impedance earbuds?
> 
> I've been seriously considering replacing my old Google Nexus 5 phone, with the carrier unlocked US version (model US996), rooting and installing LineageOS 14.1 (Android 7.1.2 (Nougat)), Xposed Framework, along with Viper4Android (or other, newer audio processing S/W).



It’s the LS997 sprint version, practically non rootable it seems. So sadly no V4A for me!

I don’t have any earbuds over 32ohms because I was using the 6s and didn’t want to underpower my buds. Maybe I’ll buy some higher impendance buds for the meizu if it can handle em.

In its stock form the non B&O tuned V20 is more ‘pure’ sabre dac without any colouration of sound. It’s clean and cold in low impendance but lacking some dynamics, in high impendance it has the dynamics and is more neutral-slightly warm (natural) so it’s better all round.

But honestly I find it too analytical-digital and I prefer detailed but analog sound with a fuller quality.

Also the stage presentation is slightly narrow and the midrange can be forward. I think the narrowness comes from some added crossfeed filter (or so I’ve heard).

There’s also a slight harshness in the lower treble as mentioned to me by @vladstef so it can come off a tad rough of trebley music.

There’s zero mid bass bloat on the stock version, actually it’s too subdued for my preference but most like it that way especially for bass earbuds.

V4A may be a game changer im not sure, the ‘audiophile smartphone’ thread guys would know though!


----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> Isn't the LG V30 supposed to be the audio-cat's meow?



Yes, but it's still quite expensive, and there isn't a release of LineageOS for the V30, yet...  
I guess I could consider the LG G6 (model US997), since it's only about $100 more than the V20, and there is a release of LineageOS for it.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 20, 2018)

waynes world said:


> Isn't the LG V30 supposed to be the audio-cat's meow?



If you can root it, install v4a to tune it to your liking and use the root fix to force high impendance mode always on then it may be an excellent source for a mobile, because it has some seriously impressive aspects and a really detailed neutral and pure sound.

Just my version is locked and such that I decided to look at a different device altogether!


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> Yes, but it's still quite expensive, and there isn't a release of LineageOS for the V30, yet...
> I guess I could consider the LG G6 (model US997), since it's only about $100 more than the V20, and there is a release of LineageOS for it.



Right. 

Not related, but here's an interesting hypothetical.... if you found a $200 bluetooth dac/amp that could make "whatever" phone sound fantastic, would you still be looking for a phone to satisfy your audiophile requirements? I only ask because I am starting to feel that the SQ of a phone (or DAP for that matter) might become irrelevant due to high quality sounding, yet relatively inexpensive, bluetooth receivers.


----------



## doggiemom (Jan 20, 2018)

waynes world said:


> Right.
> 
> Not related, but here's an interesting hypothetical.... if you found a $200 bluetooth dac/amp that could make "whatever" phone sound fantastic, would you still be looking for a phone to satisfy your audiophile requirements? I only ask because I am starting to feel that the SQ of a phone (or DAP for that matter) might become irrelevant due to high quality sounding, yet relatively inexpensive, bluetooth receivers.


This is getting way off topic,  but I would say "no."  I'm locked into an iPhone for work so never looked seriously at phones as audio sources, but I do like having DAC/amps that will work with the phone I have now, my iPad and PC, and future phones.  Currently all my DAC/amps are hardwired, so I am locked into using a Camera Kit Adapter from Apple, which sucks big time.  I have this little guy on pre-order:  http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/us/Prod...spx?CatId=headphoneamplifiers&ProductId=MHA50 which will be my first Bluetooth DAC/amp.  It is on the pricey side, but I figure that I'd rather spend the money on that device which can be used with everything rather than one phone which will be out of date in a few years. 

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here, just personal preference based on intended use.

Edited to say:  The example I gave is outside of the pricepoint you mentioned.  I also have one of these guys on "order" from Indiegogo:  https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/...e-amplifier-bluetooth-headphones/x/10253451#/
It was being demoed at CanJam with some Fostex planars, and sounded really good.  It may be too much for low impedence buds though, we shall see.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 20, 2018)

waynes world said:


> Right.
> 
> Not related, but here's an interesting hypothetical.... if you found a $200 bluetooth dac/amp that could make "whatever" phone sound fantastic, would you still be looking for a phone to satisfy your audiophile requirements? I only ask because I am starting to feel that the SQ of a phone (or DAP for that matter) might become irrelevant due to high quality sounding, yet relatively inexpensive, bluetooth receivers.


For me yes, the idea of carrying two devices is more awkward than the wire itself imo, and heavier. Now when the time comes that BT technology of tomorrow (and I do mean the very near future) sounds that good but also fit into the earbud/headphone discretely, then I’ll move to BT. lol

Infact I know that the most recent BT and wireless standards are excellent but it’s the DAC/AMP part that’s lagging behind in terms of shrinking to miniature sizes.

When airpods becomes audiophile grade in SQ then I’ll jump on the wireless bandwagon


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Right.
> 
> Not related, but here's an interesting hypothetical.... if you found a $200 bluetooth dac/amp that could make "whatever" phone sound fantastic, would you still be looking for a phone to satisfy your audiophile requirements? I only ask because I am starting to feel that the SQ of a phone (or DAP for that matter) might become irrelevant due to high quality sounding, yet relatively inexpensive, bluetooth receivers.



For me,no. 
I rather have a good sounding bluetooth /usb dac so i can use whatever phone/tablet/pc i have


----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> Right.
> 
> Not related, but here's an interesting hypothetical.... if you found a $200 bluetooth dac/amp that could make "whatever" phone sound fantastic, would you still be looking for a phone to satisfy your audiophile requirements? I only ask because I am starting to feel that the SQ of a phone (or DAP for that matter) might become irrelevant due to high quality sounding, yet relatively inexpensive, bluetooth receivers.



Well, my four year old Nexus 5 phone only has the Bluetooth SBC codec, and no MicroSD slot - so that's why I want a new phone.   
My DAPs work well with all of my earbuds / earphones, and it would be nice to have a better phone that does, as well.


----------



## SweetEars

seanc6441 said:


> Nope never saw that one before


i PM-ed the seller he says apparently the sound is very good..


----------



## Mimouille

SweetEars said:


> i PM-ed the seller he says apparently the sound is very good..


The guy who sells it says it sounds very good? I am flabbergasted


----------



## theoutsider

SweetEars said:


> i PM-ed the seller he says apparently the sound is very good..


Why am I not surprised?


----------



## SweetEars

can someone state the real differences between the EMX500 and EMx-s 500 vs R4YS?


----------



## SweetEars

seanc6441 said:


> hmmm for $25 it’s going to be difficult to find an upgrade with the same mild U shape signature. The EMX500 are very very good for $10 and imo the $20-25 graphene’s are a sidegrade with a different signature.
> 
> I usually recommend the Rose Masya as a true upgrade because of its excellent extension of bass and treble but also having a much better midrange (its balanced sound) but feels like the U shape of emx500 because of how it extends and how clean clear and unbloated the midrange is.
> 
> ...


i see to prefer the EMX 500 sound signature..and also the R4YS.. so am i person that prefers a U -shape signature? In that case i will like something the same as EMX-500 in higher priced range that has a large soundstage especially depth . What will u recommend me then??


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 21, 2018)

SweetEars said:


> i see to prefer the EMX 500 sound signature..and also the R4YS.. so am i person that prefers a U -shape signature? In that case i will like something the same as EMX-500 in higher priced range that has a large soundstage especially depth . What will u recommend me then??


Rose Masya is perfect for you as you seem to enjoy extension of sub bass and treble and while the Masya is a balanced sound it gives all the benefits of a U shape signature like clearly defined and detailed bass and treble due to its dual driver setup.

You’re music choice suits the Rose Masya the most, if you’re willing to spend $90 on it and accept the slight chance that it’s history of quality control is a bit shakey then go for it.

I mean the chances are you’ll get a perfectly working Masya, I seemed to be unlucky with mine. But yeah as far as the closet sounding earbud with an upgrade in every way is the Rose Masya.

Penon BS1 is another option which is more neutral than the Masya/Emx500 (they are slightly warm sounding) but have a very good all round ability and deep soundstage aswell.

While I think the BS1 is a slightly more accomplished earbud and also less QC issues, I do feel the Masya is slightly more suitable to your preferences as it’s a ‘lighter’ sound which works well with instrumental music (most of the Rahman stuff you showed us is heavy on the instrumentals).

But if you choose either of those earbuds you’ll be very impressed with the deep soundstage and detail.


----------



## mbwilson111

SweetEars said:


> can someone state the real differences between the EMX500 and EMx-s 500 vs R4YS?



I know I have seen this discussed more than once.  Searching within the thread now works very well.  It has always worked but it is easier now.  Have you noticed the little "search this thread"  below the thread title banner?


----------



## seanc6441

@SweetEars as far as I can tell using the search feature only one person has compared emx500 and emxs500 and said the emxs had a better balance of the midrange and prefered it overall.


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> @SweetEars as far as I can tell using the search feature only one person has compared emx500 and emxs500 and said the emxs had a better balance of the midrange and prefered it overall.



That must be the post I was thinking about.  I do  not have any of the three buds that Sweetears owns but I do have the RY04 that  no one seems to talk about.


----------



## chinmie

SweetEars said:


> can someone state the real differences between the EMX500 and EMx-s 500 vs R4YS?



you already have two out of the three, right? if you are not a collector, i suggest you don't buy similar earbuds/ slight upgrades. find something else that is completely different, or buy higher level upgrades. take a chance once in a while


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> (most of the Rahman stuff you showed us is heavy on the instrumentals).


For the love of god, don't encourage him!


----------



## Niqeres

mbwilson111 said:


> That must be the post I was thinking about.  I do  not have any of the three buds that Sweetears owns but I do have the RY04 that  no one seems to talk about.


How do you find the RY04?


----------



## waynes world

doggiemom said:


> This is getting way off topic,  but I would say "no."  I'm locked into an iPhone for work so never looked seriously at phones as audio sources, but I do like having DAC/amps that will work with the phone I have now, my iPad and PC, and future phones.  Currently all my DAC/amps are hardwired, so I am locked into using a Camera Kit Adapter from Apple, which sucks big time.  I have this little guy on pre-order:  http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/us/Prod...spx?CatId=headphoneamplifiers&ProductId=MHA50 which will be my first Bluetooth DAC/amp.  It is on the pricey side, but I figure that I'd rather spend the money on that device which can be used with everything rather than one phone which will be out of date in a few years.
> 
> I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here, just personal preference based on intended use.
> 
> ...



Both the MHA50 and the Get look pretty nice (although you may be right about the Get and low impedence buds).

I have been very impressed with the $70 Fiio BTR1, and I have a really good feeling about the upcoming $80 Radsone Earstudio.

As more and more of these bluetooth receivers come out (with increasing SQ and value), I just can't see how they won't more and more popular.



seanc6441 said:


> For me yes, the idea of carrying two devices is more awkward than the wire itself imo, and heavier. Now when the time comes that BT technology of tomorrow (and I do mean the very near future) sounds that good but also fit into the earbud/headphone discretely, then I’ll move to BT. lol
> 
> Infact I know that the most recent BT and wireless standards are excellent but it’s the DAC/AMP part that’s lagging behind in terms of shrinking to miniature sizes.
> 
> When airpods becomes audiophile grade in SQ then I’ll jump on the wireless bandwagon



But waiting for suitable earpods would then mean being limited to them. I want to be able to use all of my wired buds/headphones, but not have them plugged directly into my phone (even though I like the SQ out of my phone, the cable just gets in the way for me). So these bluetooth receivers are working great for me.

Btw, they are pretty small. Here is the BTR1:


Spoiler














chinmie said:


> For me,no.
> I rather have a good sounding bluetooth /usb dac so i can use whatever phone/tablet/pc i have



Good point. It's great being able to use the same bluetooth receiver with different gizmos, and therefore getting the same SQ from all of them.



DBaldock9 said:


> Well, my four year old Nexus 5 phone only has the Bluetooth SBC codec, and no MicroSD slot - so that's why I want a new phone.
> My DAPs work well with all of my earbuds / earphones, and it would be nice to have a better phone that does, as well.



Yup, you need a new phone DBalcock9! 

Fwiw, I really like the S7 edge (exynos). Great SQ (at least for my silver ears), waterproof, and a great camera:


Spoiler: Image..


----------



## doggiemom

Niqeres said:


> How do you find the RY04?


They are available through AliExpress.


----------



## Niqeres

doggiemom said:


> They are available through AliExpress.


Whoops! I should've made myself clearer. I meant to say what do you think of the sound,


----------



## seanc6441

@waynes world Me and you have had this conversation before 

You prefer no direct connection with wires at the expensive of two devices, I prefer a single device at the expense of a wired connection.

I’ll only move to wireless when an all in one design and completely wireless solution becomes available, oh and when said solution sounds as good or better than wired!


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 21, 2018)

Niqeres said:


> How do you find the RY04?





Niqeres said:


> Whoops! I should've made myself clearer. I meant to say what do you think of the sound,



I knew what you meant.  I  had to get them out and listen.  I knew if I mentioned them I would have to do that  The RY04 were one of the first buds that I got ... along with a few others at the same time.  I chose them because they were only 3 or 4 dollars and I liked the look of them, especially the snakeskin looking cable.I  had only listened to them once and the put them away because I  had so many other things to listen to. 

The width of the shells are bigger than I thought they would be so I don't know if I am getting a seal.  Once i have them in place they are not painful and they seem to stay in ok.  Listening to them now I would say they are brighter than I usually choose but the highs are not harsh or piercing.  They are quite airy and spacious... so definitely a good soundstage.  Vocalists (male and female) that I know well are sounding great...as are guitars and other real instruments .I would not call these bass heavy in any way but they do have enough weight for me. Drums sound fine. I don't listen to EDM but if I did I probably would not use these for that.  I might try some classical. Should be good for that.  I  just usually prefer classical with floor standing speakers. 

They would be worth the £3 that I paid just for the cable


----------



## mbwilson111

Still listening to the RY04.  It actually has quite an addictive sound.


----------



## redkingjoe

Finally got my new toy! 
Loving it!


----------



## SweetEars

redkingjoe said:


> Finally got my new toy!
> Loving it!


whats it called?


----------



## doggiemom (Jan 23, 2018)

I did order the R4YS based on the positive feedback here.  The blue cable looks really snazzy too.


----------



## redkingjoe

SweetEars said:


> whats it called?



I bought that from Facebook account of Shozy! 

The guy who sold to me said it’s a special edition with solid silver conductors applied to the BK!

No name yet!


----------



## chaiyuta

@redkingjoe : Congrats for your new limited toy. If I find any news, I will feed news about new earbuds here. hehe


----------



## mochill

Shozy stardust limited edition it's $300+


----------



## SweetEars

the biggest problems with the new  graphene ( Blue cable)  i encountered is their ariculation and  top=down layering


----------



## SweetEars

https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2017/12/02/toneking-to180/

this  sounds great?


----------



## diavolo rosso

How's EMX500 compare to Toneking TP16?


----------



## SweetEars

diavolo rosso said:


> How's EMX500 compare to Toneking TP16?


i think EMX-s 500 or R4YS is better overall ... u can not go wrong with them.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 22, 2018)

SweetEars said:


> since i have 3 the EMx 500 , R4YS and Graphenes ( new)..and all 3 could have already burnt- in  i would say among the 3 the R4YS recently aces in Rahman's music..whenn i first bought them 2-3 months ago.. i just had them used occasionally for a little  while and put them away ..
> 
> i just listened to this on all 3 ..the Graphene just doesnt sound right to me  And R4YS is now the new budget king... the sub bass, mid bass and soundstage come across acurately on this ..
> 
> i am not sure how the penon BS1 or  the Masya will sound on this



Rose Masya sounds excellent on any instrumental work and handles it easily, also good for all round use.

Same with BS1 but I prefer BS1 for all round use, better detail and imaging and vocals are fuller.

Masya has lighter sound, more extended, slightly bigger soundstage.

BS1 has more energetic and medium fullsound, more detail, deeper soundstage and smoother treble.

Masya has very quick tight bass and more sub bass than mid bass. It extends low.

BS1 has equal sub bass mid bass but slightly slower to hit. It feels warmer in the bass region with more full body punchy sound.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 22, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> Sean17395284836, I asked you not to encourage him!   .



Sorry I had a momentary lapse in judgement 

Didn’t think he’d pounce on it so fast with the link lol

The song was short and somewhat catchy this time but I’m not excusing it xD


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 22, 2018)

SweetEars said:


> whats it called?


Looks to me the shozy BK limited edition. Someone with the original bk needs to get this and compare the sound from copper and silver cables ) Or atleast to check for tuning changes but I doubt they changed anything in that regard.

@SweetEars Ok here’s my verdict for you.

Prefer a brighter sound with light ‘airy’ qualities and a big soundstage? Get the Masya.

Prefer a neutral energetic sound with amazing imaging and depth? Get the BS1

If you’re source is warm I think the Masya will sound better than on a bright source, BS1 can handle either being more neutral in tonality.

I take back what I said about the masya being warm, it’s pretty neutral and bright and will be influenced by the source so it may sound warm or cold depending on your source imo.

My choice for your music would be the Masya with a warm source it’s really excellent for instrumental and airy music.


----------



## letlive

seanc6441 said:


> I’ve tried many of the budget buds and I suggest you stick to emx500 if you like it and when your ready to upgrade down the line for a more premium bud you could save the emx500 for sport and such. Infact the emx500 is really perfect for sports because it’s cheap but sounds great for the price.
> 
> A proper upgrade would be Penon BS1 official, Rose Masya etc. These buds are around $90 but anything in between will only be a marginal upgrade I feel. Such is the performance of budget earbuds these days.


What do you think about these ones (clear with mic) as an "upgrade"?


----------



## Mimouille (Jan 22, 2018)

After initially listening to the Shozy BK, I was like : these things are awesome! Where have I been all this time. Then I noticed two things that are a downside versus iems :

Lack of isolation makes me want to turn the volume up, and it gets a bit fatiguing
I cannot wear these for more than an hour without discomfort
Apart from that, the amount of air, the natural tone and the bass texture are to die for. And I come from 2k$ iems.


----------



## chinmie

SweetEars said:


> i think EMX-s 500 or R4YS is better overall ... u can not go wrong with them.


 have you compared them to the TP16 by yourself?


----------



## wokashraf

are hifiman es100 good for its price? currently hifiman did sales on its tmall website ( chinese website) for 179yuan..good buy?

https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?i...81309.275833_0&sku_properties=5919063:6536025


----------



## golov17

Mimouille said:


> I cannot wear these for more than an hour without discomfort
> Apart from that, the amount of air, the natural tone and the bass texture are to die for. And I come from 2k$ iems.


just a habit. I can not use any IEM even 15 minutes, terribly uncomfortable..


----------



## golov17

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...generic&notif_id=1516618797353680&ref=m_notif


----------



## Danneq

Mimouille said:


> After initially listening to the Shozy BK, I was like : these things are awesome! Where have I been all this time. Then I noticed two things that are a downside versus iems :
> 
> Lack of isolation makes me want to turn the volume up, and it gets a bit fatiguing
> I cannot wear these for more than an hour without discomfort
> Apart from that, the amount of air, the natural tone and the bass texture are to die for. And I come from 2k$ iems.



Welcome to the world of earbuds! You'll get used to the lack of isolation. I can use earbuds on the bus or train without turning the volume up too much. You just have to accept that you will hear outside noise with earbuds. Of course the best thing is to find a quiet place to use earbuds...

And you might be surprised that Shozy BK has got a pretty small soundstage compared to other TOTL earbuds...




wokashraf said:


> are hifiman es100 good for its price? currently hifiman did sales on its tmall website ( chinese website) for 179yuan..good buy?
> 
> https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?i...81309.275833_0&sku_properties=5919063:6536025



Great price! ES100 is neutral and "flat" sounding and can be a bit unexciting for some people. Still, I think you should give it a try!


----------



## golov17

http://store.hifiman.com/index.php/megamini-es100-combo.html


----------



## wokashraf

Danneq said:


> Welcome to the world of earbuds! You'll get used to the lack of isolation. I can use earbuds on the bus or train without turning the volume up too much. You just have to accept that you will hear outside noise with earbuds. Of course the best thing is to find a quiet place to use earbuds...
> 
> And you might be surprised that Shozy BK has got a pretty small soundstage compared to other TOTL earbuds...
> 
> ...


Thanks Danneq..will put into buy list..need to search few more to buy...


----------



## wokashraf

golov17 said:


> http://store.hifiman.com/index.php/megamini-es100-combo.html


This muchh more cheaper combo..hahaha..sad..only available in the US


----------



## golov17

wokashraf said:


> This muchh more cheaper combo..hahaha..sad..only available in the US


Yeah :/


----------



## diavolo rosso

SweetEars said:


> i think EMX-s 500 or R4YS is better overall ... u can not go wrong with them.



unfortunately, I can only get one of those


----------



## chinmie

diavolo rosso said:


> How's EMX500 compare to Toneking TP16?



emx500 have bigger and farther extensions on bass and treble, wider soundstage, but the TP16 have a more natural sound, although it still has a big bass and treble. both have similar sound quality


----------



## seanc6441

letlive said:


> What do you think about these ones (clear with mic) as an "upgrade"?


I assume all the emxs-500’s sound the same so it’s probably a good choice yeah. I only have the original emx-500 so cannot give my own opinion on the emxs-500.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 22, 2018)

Mimouille said:


> After initially listening to the Shozy BK, I was like : these things are awesome! Where have I been all this time. Then I noticed two things that are a downside versus iems :
> 
> Lack of isolation makes me want to turn the volume up, and it gets a bit fatiguing
> I cannot wear these for more than an hour without discomfort
> Apart from that, the amount of air, the natural tone and the bass texture are to die for. And I come from 2k$ iems.


Really surprised about the comfort issues, give it a week to adjust because the shell is more comfortable than most for earbuds, although comfort comes down to the ear shape size so maybe you find other styles better for that.

I’m glad you like them overall and don’t feel expensive IEM’s demolish them in SQ, because I don’t really know what I’m missing by neglecting IEM’s (cannot get them comfortable I tried for months and I don’t like the sensation and closed off feeling). But if the BK’s compare to equally priced IEM’s then I’m happy!

As for isolation I prefer to use the BK indoors or in quiter environents and they simply won’t compare to IEM’s when isolation is needed.

@golov17 they should check out the BK, BS1 and one of the Cypherus buds amoung others


----------



## Mimouille

Thanks for the feedback guys, I guess my outer ear is sensitive. I am considering other earbuds style, but my other issue is that many seem cheap or ugly to me. The only one I am eying is the Liebesleid.

And FYI, in my opinion the Shozy BK sounds as good as iems much more expensive.


----------



## seanc6441

Mimouille said:


> Thanks for the feedback guys, I guess my outer ear is sensitive. I am considering other earbuds style, but my other issue is that many seem cheap or ugly to me. The only one I am eying is the Liebesleid.
> 
> And FYI, in my opinion the Shozy BK sounds as good as iems much more expensive.


Check out the bs1 if you have the time, while the shell is not as small as the BK the edges are very smooth and rounded off. Think of it as a mx500 shell but sanded down to completely curve the edges smooth.

It sounds almost as textured and full as the bk, with about equal detail but a bigger deeper soundstage and smoother high’s. I rank it about equal overall but at $50 less than the BK it’s a great deal.

Or the liebsleid/ new K’s flagship earbud if you have the money to spend  They both look pretty similar aesthetic and shape wise.


----------



## ostewart

Made a little thread for the Kinera Earbuds 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kinera-earbud-thread.870462/


----------



## golov17

Mimouille said:


> Thanks for the feedback guys, I guess my outer ear is sensitive. I am considering other earbuds style, but my other issue is that many seem cheap or ugly to me. The only one I am eying is the Liebesleid.
> 
> And FYI, in my opinion the Shozy BK sounds as good as iems much more expensive.


Try Rose earbuds, Mojito & Masya


----------



## mochill

Mimouille said:


> Thanks for the feedback guys, I guess my outer ear is sensitive. I am considering other earbuds style, but my other issue is that many seem cheap or ugly to me. The only one I am eying is the Liebesleid.
> 
> And FYI, in my opinion the Shozy BK sounds as good as iems much more expensive.


Get the shozy stardust limited edition


----------



## bonson

mochill said:


> Get the shozy stardust limited edition


Where to get the limited edition ? I only see regular shozy Bk on Penon.


----------



## Saoshyant

109 for MegaMini & ES100?  If I didn't already have Supermini and ES100 I'd buy it in a heartbeat.  Hifiman's support really impressed me with an issue I had.


----------



## DBaldock9

mochill said:


> Get the shozy stardust limited edition





bonson said:


> Where to get the limited edition ? I only see regular shozy Bk on Penon.



Back in the middle of last August, on the Shozy Facebook page, they quoted a post by @golov17 and wrote, "_Thanks for all yours support! The Stardust (aka BK) will be all sold out soon, grab your unit while it lasts!_"
If they're still available on sites like Penon, I wonder if that means they built another batch - or did shops like Penon stock up a lot when the announcement was made?
Searching back a whole year, to the beginning of 2017, there's no mention of the Limited Edition on their Facebook page - was it only ever announced somewhere else?


----------



## Makahl

DBaldock9 said:


> Back in the middle of last August, on the Shozy Facebook page, they quoted a post by @golov17 and wrote, "_Thanks for all yours support! The Stardust (aka BK) will be all sold out soon, grab your unit while it lasts!_"
> If they're still available on sites like Penon, I wonder if that means they built another batch - or did shops like Penon stock up a lot when the announcement was made?
> Searching back a whole year, to the beginning of 2017, there's no mention of the Limited Edition on their Facebook page - was it only ever announced somewhere else?



Usually, you need to PM them on facebook to know more details about their products or searching on their taobao page:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.1-c.w4004-3708553000.5.dc6df5ceZk8qS&id=562597255017

(not sure if this is their official store on taobao, but it matches with the blue cable posted early here).


----------



## SweetEars

chinmie said:


> have you compared them to the TP16 by yourself?


nope.. but as many said.. the 2 i mentioned are great all rounders...


----------



## SweetEars

seanc6441 said:


> Sorry I had a momentary lapse in judgement
> 
> Didn’t think he’d pounce on it so fast with the link lol
> 
> The song was short and somewhat catchy this time but I’m not excusing it xD


hope u enjoyed the song on yr earbuds..


----------



## chinmie

SweetEars said:


> nope.. but as many said.. the 2 i mentioned are great all rounders...


that's what I thought. you shouldn't give opinion on something you didn't know first hand. if you want to quote others, you should state that "i never tried them, but others said that....."


----------



## redkingjoe

bonson said:


> Where to get the limited edition ? I only see regular shozy Bk on Penon.



I buy it through the Facebook account!

Just send a message asking about the blue BK! 

You can settle with PayPal!


----------



## redkingjoe

DBaldock9 said:


> Back in the middle of last August, on the Shozy Facebook page, they quoted a post by @golov17 and wrote, "_Thanks for all yours support! The Stardust (aka BK) will be all sold out soon, grab your unit while it lasts!_"
> If they're still available on sites like Penon, I wonder if that means they built another batch - or did shops like Penon stock up a lot when the announcement was made?
> Searching back a whole year, to the beginning of 2017, there's no mention of the Limited Edition on their Facebook page - was it only ever announced somewhere else?



When I send a message through Facebook to them end of December, it seemed the guy who is responding was not very sure about that limited edition.

Later he replied to me that there’s a queue of order. 

So I paid through PayPal and received the blue Bk yesterday.


----------



## Mimouille

mochill said:


> Get the shozy stardust limited edition


Meeeh just a different cable no?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 22, 2018)

Mimouille said:


> Meeeh just a different cable no?


He may have been joking, it seems a cable swap yes, you probably don't need both... until you do 

Seeing as you got natural and analog down with the BK, you may look for your next earbud something with a big sound stage because as TOTL earbuds go the shozy's don't have very big sound stages at all which makes some music some very intimate and nice but others somewhat congested or lacking the room to excel in atmospheric pieces.


----------



## SweetEars

maybe this is offtrack.. those having the conexant audio soundcard.. if u find the quality is inconsistent.. got  to windows services and disable the "conexant smart audio service".

doing this  seems to give a better quality audio .. its probably some bug in windows 10 ...


----------



## ClieOS

I see there is a bit of confusion over BK vs. BK limited edition. 

First of, normal BK is still in production, so is BK limited edition (for now).

Secondly, BK limited edition is just normal BK with a pure silver cable. This kind cable used is typically in blue and being referred by the Chinese as either "ocean" or "sea king" (a la Poseidon) cable.

Lastly, the first batch of BK ltd. ed. was produced in very limited number sometime later last year and quickly sold out - that's why you don't really see them on the overseas market / reseller (penon, aliexpress, etc). This time around they seem to be doing a much bigger batch and so they are much easier to find.


----------



## Mimouille

seanc6441 said:


> He may have been joking, it seems a cable swap yes, you probably don't need both... until you do
> 
> Seeing as you got natural and analog down with the BK, you may look for your next earbud something with a big sound stage because as TOTL earbuds go the shozy's don't have very big sound stages at all which makes some music some very intimate and nice but others somewhat congested or lacking the room to excel in atmospheric pieces.


I don't find it particularly intimate. Anyways, I am first going to validate I can really wear earbuds before trying other ones.


----------



## chaiyuta

@Mimouille : Please try with and without sponges and see how you feel. If Shozy BK (O.D. front cover 16.1-16.3 mm) is bigger for your ears.. then Rose earbuds ( O.D. ~15.5 mm) might be your next.


----------



## Mimouille

chaiyuta said:


> @Mimouille : Please try with and without sponges and see how you feel. If Shozy BK (O.D. front cover 16.1-16.3 mm) is bigger for your ears.. then Rose earbuds ( O.D. ~15.5 mm) might be your next.


Thanks, I find them bit...ugly.


----------



## seanc6441

Mimouille said:


> I don't find it particularly intimate. Anyways, I am first going to validate I can really wear earbuds before trying other ones.


Oh yeah good point, there’s a few cheapo aliexpress buds with different shells if you need to test run some designs 

I guess it’s expected that you don’t feel the soundstage to be on the smaller side if what’s said is true about most IEM’s not having particularly large soundstages. There’s some earbuds out there that have some truly large soundstages that are out of head and more closely resemble headphones.

Of course it’s how well an earbud uses the stage that matters.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 22, 2018)

Mimouille said:


> Thanks, I find them bit...ugly.


I’d be surprised if you could handle the treble on the BK without foams, it can be somewhat rough without the donut foams more so than most of my earbuds.

Ugly? I love it’s retro look but I assume you mean the grey front grille! It’s alright I guess but I can see how some wouldn’t like it’s style lol


----------



## jogawag

ClieOS said:


> I see there is a bit of confusion over BK vs. BK limited edition.
> 
> First of, normal BK is still in production, so is BK limited edition (for now).
> 
> ...



Please tell me the details of  sound difference between normal BK and Poseidon BK.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

What do you guys do if you get ripped off on aliexpress?

Last week seller Hotfi promised they'd cancel my order because they misrepresented what they were selling. I didn't hear back after that, but it was the weekend so I waited until today, STILL no reply! And there's no link anywhere on aliexpress to dispute it, nor to leave negative feedback. What is going on?

I tried cancelling a week ago, but that didn't go through because it requires seller approval (no conflict of interest there I'm sure). I still have 1 day 9 hours left until it's supposed to cancel automatically, but why should I wait for that? This is the first time I tried shopping with aliexpress, and I have zero faith that anything will work short of disputing the charge as fraudulent with my credit card company, which I plan on doing first thing tomorrow if it hasn't been resolved by then. 

It's the other sellers on aliexpress that he's hurting most of all. I can't buy from one of them while he has my money, and I'm not likely to ever consider ordering from ANY seller there, if this is how much they care about having customers.

Just disgruntled.


----------



## doggiemom

You probably have to wait for the time out in order for the order to be cancelled automatically.  Once it is shipped you should be able to dispute it.  I would threaten to leave negative feedback....... the sellers seem to really not like that.

Honestly, I have had a few situations with Ali sellers that weren't resolved to my liking, but in the end none of
Them were a huge financial hit.  When stuff has been advertised but not shipped I've gotten refunds.  The bigger problem is when there is an issue with what you receive:  the seller typically wants you to pay return shipping to China, or accept a partial refund.

I my relationship with Ali is dysfunctional.  I need them because it is the only way to get a lot of the buds I want, but sometimes the service sucks, and occasionally I lose money.


----------



## ClieOS

jogawag said:


> Please tell me the details of  sound difference between normal BK and Poseidon BK.



Can't do that. I didn't pick up the limited edition.


----------



## mochill

Mimouille said:


> Meeeh just a different cable no?


Better apparently


----------



## SweetEars

seanc6441 said:


> Oh yeah good point, there’s a few cheapo aliexpress buds with different shells if you need to test run some designs
> 
> I guess it’s expected that you don’t feel the soundstage to be on the smaller side if what’s said is true about most IEM’s not having particularly large soundstages. There’s some earbuds out there that have some truly large soundstages that are out of head and more closely resemble headphones.
> 
> Of course it’s how well an earbud uses the stage that matters.


one of  the largest soundstage in an IEM belongs to the MEELECTRONICS M9. But that was in 2009 and i have not compared any IEM to earbuds now.


----------



## bonson

redkingjoe said:


> I buy it through the Facebook account!
> 
> Just send a message asking about the blue BK!
> 
> You can settle with PayPal!


@redkingjoe  Thanks for information. 
@ClieOS thanks for clarification on normal vs limited edition.
I will pass if the only changement is the cable.


----------



## Mimouille

ClieOS said:


> Can't do that. I didn't pick up the limited edition.


----------



## Danneq

SweetEars said:


> i am interested to know how the Guru Instrumental score sounds like in the Higher ranged earbuds thanks..



Just buy a TOTL earbud and try it. Or borrow a friend's. Other people cannot decide for you.


----------



## ClieOS

Mimouille said:


>


Haha, I am quite content with my balanced BK as it is. Last time around when I picked up the limited edition Cygnus, i never did find the price tag to warrant the difference between it and the normal Cygnus, which is why I am kind of reluctant to get the limited edition BK, especially since there are a few other flagships from other brands to choose from. If only I have the money to get them all


----------



## Mimouille

ClieOS said:


> Haha, I am quite content with my balanced BK as it is. Last time around when I picked up the limited edition Cygnus, i never did find the price tag to warrant the difference between it and the normal Cygnus, which is why I am kind of reluctant to get the limited edition BK, especially since there are a few other flagships from other brands to choose from. *If only I have the money to get them all*


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 23, 2018)

Meanwhile, I think I may have a bud delivery today.


----------



## noknok23 (Jan 23, 2018)

I have the HE150 pro since a couple of days, quite pleased with them. They have very clean -neutral- mids, with open soundstage and surprisingly good layering. Its a rather soothing and relaxing sound sig. sub bass is slightly upped with lean midbass, treble rather slow/soft however it doesnt sound veiled at all.
The fit is pretty good, between the mx500 and the yuin in terms of comfort.
They are my new favorite for casual listening.


Edit: btw @B9Scrambler your review is spot on. Thanks for it


----------



## theoutsider (Jan 23, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Meanwhile, I think I may have a bud delivery today.


So what is the new member of your family? My new bud might reach me tomorrow.


----------



## golov17

http://www.lendmeurears.com/uu2/?setCurrencyId=2


----------



## AxelCloris

We've performed some clean-up on the recent discussions. Please keep the thread on-topic, everyone. Thank you.


----------



## j4100

Heavenly Sounds have been in touch. I can sense some new earbuds coming soon.


----------



## XP_98

j4100 said:


> You cannot delete posts on here! Not harsh to my ears. I was using full and donut foams. However, I'm in my 50s, so no idea how my hearing is. Certainly nowhere near as trebley (is that even a word lol) as the **** PT15 though. I could listen to the ROS1 for long periods.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hello, I got mine today. First impression is fine : very confortable, much easier to wear for my ears than my mx760 graphene, good sound with a wide soundstage, good amount of bass, not to harsh treble. Thank you again for the tip !
If I like them a lot, I might want later the very same size, with higher SQ. What would it be ?


----------



## mbwilson111

XP_98 said:


> Hello, I got mine today. First impression is fine : very confortable, much easier to wear for my ears than my mx760 graphene, good sound with a wide soundstage, good amount of bass, not to harsh treble. Thank you again for the tip !
> If I like them a lot, I might want later the very same size, with higher SQ. What would it be ?



Nice to hear your impressions.  My ROS1 should be here tomorrow, although our mail system is not always reliable here.


----------



## -rowan- (Jan 27, 2018)

DJ The Rocket said:


> Fellow Stax guy here. I haven't heard the SR-002/003, but I think you're looking more for the quality level you're used to more than any one kind of signature? And you're defining that Stax quality mostly by its clarity and accurate detail? This is a tough one.
> 
> I had the same thought about the Mojito being a possibility, and despite the advice we've both received I'd still like to give one a try, it's just not my highest priority anymore. I'm not sure about the $260 price tag either, I bought a pair of L300's last week for just $40 more.
> 
> ...



I do actually own the iSine20  So yes, I'm looking more for quality rather than a particular signature.
After all, the iSine20 and SR-002 are imo almost polar opposites in terms of signatures and what they're good at - both are more than able, but show the other up in the most appalling ways. The Stax has a surprisingly detailed though not bottomless bass but the iSine20 shows just how inadequate it is by plumbing the low end so effortlessly - the amount of low-frequency detail it pulls is jaw-dropping. Move up to the mids though and they may as well be tin cans next to the Stax, which have a knack of simply getting out of the way of the recording.

(As for the LCDi4... I've had the pleasure of auditioning it once and it deals with most of the shortcomings of the iSine20 but at that price I'd forget about portables and go straight for the SRS-5100.)

I've not tried the Alpha; I admit that it's been some time since I paid attention to Dunu (I had the DN-1000 for a while but sold it because I thought the dynamic and balanced armature drivers sorely lacked cohesion) but maybe they've improved since.

So yeah, I've thought seriously about the Mojito too, but was wondering if it mightn't be more sensible to start with the Masya - not just for the price tag but also because I've read so much about it being light, airy, fast and mid-centric and wondered if those descriptions didn't apply to the SR-002 as well.

I'm almost afraid to ask... is there a Mojito successor on the way?

I'll try to grab an MX985 if any ever come my way and check out the Ting in the meantime - thanks for those recommendations. I'm exploring earbuds for their comfort and portability, as well as the kind of big, open soundstage that you'd usually get with open-back headphones. It's been some time since I've used earbuds, and am pleasantly surprised to discover how good they've become. I suppose I don't need them to do *everything* an e-stat does. Not all e-stats do, even - the SR-002, for instance, doesn't exactly have that last bit of bass extension but I hardly miss it in the bigger scheme of things.

My apologies for resurrecting this with my horribly late response btw - still on the road so haven't been able to get on headfi as much, but I wanted to reply to this.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Jan 23, 2018)

@-rowan- don't even apologize, this is how the internet works. In 2021 people who are into quaint vintage tech who want to know how the iSine compares to earbuds will be reading this thread.

There was a guy in the sale foums sometime in the last couple months or so selling an LCDi4 and some other high end planar earbuds that I'd never heard of (and couldn't afford anyway). And no I don't mean the Monoprice iFakes   Provided that wasn't you, maybe you can find something useful in those posts, for research purposes if nothing else.

The Celsus Sound Gramo One might be worth a googling as well. I haven't heard one but it's on my radar.


----------



## j4100

XP_98 said:


> Hello, I got mine today. First impression is fine : very confortable, much easier to wear for my ears than my mx760 graphene, good sound with a wide soundstage, good amount of bass, not to harsh treble. Thank you again for the tip !
> If I like them a lot, I might want later the very same size, with higher SQ. What would it be ?



I would highly recommend earbud makers to consider more buds in this size. So comfortable to wear. If I find any more like this, I'll let you know and would appreciate input from anyone else.



mbwilson111 said:


> ...although our mail system is not always reliable here.



Really? That's poor. I have never had a problem with mail (except my EBX order from November, but I doubt that's the postie's fault).


----------



## Danneq

@-rowan- 
About Dunu alpha 1 it sounds pretty good, but for me fit was awful (google how it looks like) so I ended up selling my pair. If Dunu releases an Alpha 2 with better fit I'll buy it. Celsus Gramo One is way overpriced, at least to my ears. Thin sounding with slightly bright upper mids. You'd probably be better off with something like Rose Masya (I've only heard Mojito, though - which I also sold). I personally find the $50 Yincrow RW777 to beat the $260 Gramo One hands down.

Moondrop Liebsleid gets high praise. Shozy BK/Stardust is really good. If anyone can get hold of a pair of original Monk, they can send them to ABnormal Labs in Indonesia and have them make a pair of Diomnes Lv2 (I bought my pair while they still had original Monk supply, for $180 excluding shipping). Diomnes Lv2 uses the drivers from old $5 earbuds but easily beats many TOTL earbuds I've heard (Dunu Alpha 1, Celsus Gramo One, Rose Mojito etc). I cannot stop praising Cypherus, another tiny Indonesia DIY earbud maker, which hits my sweet spot with all their different earbuds: from the fun and full sounding CampFred and the even more complete follow up CF2, to the mids king QFred (amazingly sweet mids), to the neutral king CAX Black, to the king of kings Red Dragon.

And that's just low impedance earbuds. There's another world when it comes to high impedance ones...


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> Really? That's poor. I have never had a problem with mail (except my EBX order from November, but I doubt that's the postie's fault).



It was fine until two years ago when our full time postman got a different route.  They  have two part time people doing our street now.  I have been suspecting that they do not always have a substitute carrier when one of them is sick or on holiday.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 23, 2018)

I bought a second Masya because I couldn’t shake the feeling that my first one was ‘flawed’ somehow or alternatively my ear was sensitive to its frequency response (it’s very bright and tonally it’s up a notch from my usual preference throughout the whole frequency range (except the low end driver which is tuned excellently)

The good news is my first Masya was not broken, the bad news is I now have 2 and still don’t adore how bright they sound in the midrange lol!

They both sound almost identical (differences so minor I attribute it to burn in) and people who like bright sounding buds would love these (because they have loads of bass, deep and punchy yet still bright thanks to the dual drivers) If I put think foam on it I dislike the loss of clarity so it’s just not suitable for my ears I guess. The non bass driver is tuned slightly too bright for my liking and I preferred neutral-warm signatures better.

I feel like these need an extra filter to tame the brightness of the midrange (the treble itself is manageable imo) so I’ll look into placing filter paper under the foams or try a few tweaks but with that said I’ll be selling one pair possibly as I don’t need two.

Anyone with the Mojito is it the same situation with that earbud in terms of how bright the midrange sounds?


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Jan 23, 2018)

Danneq said:


> @-rowan-
> About Dunu alpha 1 it sounds pretty good, but for me fit was awful (google how it looks like) so I ended up selling my pair. If Dunu releases an Alpha 2 with better fit I'll buy it. Celsus Gramo One is way overpriced, at least to my ears. Thin sounding with slightly bright upper mids. You'd probably be better off with something like Rose Masya (I've only heard Mojito, though - which I also sold). I personally find the $50 Yincrow RW777 to beat the $260 Gramo One hands down.
> 
> Moondrop Liebsleid gets high praise. Shozy BK/Stardust is really good. If anyone can get hold of a pair of original Monk, they can send them to ABnormal Labs in Indonesia and have them make a pair of Diomnes Lv2 (I bought my pair while they still had original Monk supply, for $180 excluding shipping). Diomnes Lv2 uses the drivers from old $5 earbuds but easily beats many TOTL earbuds I've heard (Dunu Alpha 1, Celsus Gramo One, Rose Mojito etc). I cannot stop praising Cypherus, another tiny Indonesia DIY earbud maker, which hits my sweet spot with all their different earbuds: from the fun and full sounding CampFred and the even more complete follow up CF2, to the mids king QFred (amazingly sweet mids), to the neutral king CAX Black, to the king of kings Red Dragon.
> ...



Thanks for sharing your vast experience with us 

I keep coming back to those Yincrow 777s, they and the Svara-L are on my under-$100 short list.

I want to give the Campfred2 a shot as well. I think I didn't give Campfred1 enough time when I had one. I don't think I had realized back then that I take a long time to adjust to new gear, and that I _always_ have negative first impressions about gear that will become my favorite in the long run. I'm getting better at seeing through those first impressions, but I still make myself give everything a two week audition now before deciding I don't like it. I'm almost certain I gave up on the CF1 quicker than that. What a shame!

Those Diomnes Lv2 sound interesting, I wonder how they do it?


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> I bought a second Masya because I couldn’t shake the feeling that my first one was ‘flawed’ somehow or alternatively my ear was sensitive to its frequency response (it’s very bright and tonally it’s up a notch from my usual preference throughout the whole frequency range (except the low end driver which is tuned excellently)
> 
> The good news is my first Masya was not broken, the bad news is I now have 2 and still don’t adore how bright they sound in the midrange lol!
> 
> ...


 if you find the masya midrange bright, then you would dislike the Mojito even more.


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> if you find the masya midrange bright, then you would dislike the Mojito even more.


Jeez really? It’s not the treble (which is fine) and the bass is really nice and full but the midrange only. Too bad I guess some like this signature though.


----------



## Saoshyant

DJ The Rocket said:


> Thanks for sharing your vast experience with us
> 
> I keep coming back to those Yincrow 777s, they and the Svara-L are on my under-$100 short list.
> 
> ...



The CF1 has an odd sound to it that stands apart to my ears, even compared to the CF2.  I think it's the analog nature of it's sound, but by the time I bought CF2 I was quite used to it, so perhaps it's quite similar in this respect.

Maybe it's time to try the Yincrow.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Jeez really? It’s not the treble (which is fine) and the bass is really nice and full but the midrange only. Too bad I guess some like this signature though.



the mojito is great for instrumentals, especially classical music. that "brittle" signature will give you clarity like no other buds around.. but listening to modern vocal music is not very pleasant. 

if have any thoughts at all on purchasing the mojito, then i strongly urge you to consider the liebesleid. it's much more versatile that you can listen to any song without problem (even though obviously there are some music that you might enjoy better with other buds)


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> It was fine until two years ago when our full time postman got a different route.  They  have two part time people doing our street now.  I have been suspecting that they do not always have a substitute carrier when one of them is sick or on holiday.



We regularly get our Friday delivery on Sunday.


----------



## mbwilson111

groucho69 said:


> We regularly get our Friday delivery on Sunday.



Wow. Never heard of the mail coming on a Sunday... only Amazon Prime.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

This is a uniquely on-topic post here I think, considering the near monopoly aliexpress has in the audiophile earbuds sector. 

As quick follow-up to finally giving aliexpress a chance and getting ripped off by Hotfi there, here's something I learned that I never would have thought: 

When shopping at aliexpress or anywhere else online, *USE A CREDIT CARD! DO NOT USE A DEBIT CARD!
*
In a credit card dispute, your card issuer is fighting to get _their_ money back. In a debit card dispute, it's your money that's lost, and your responsibility. Some debit card issuers may put their legal and financial heft behind you anyway, but they have no obligation to.

This is contrary to everything I believed about banking, but this info comes directly from consumer.ftc.gov. 

If you're using a debit card online, STOP IT because you are a sitting duck for fraudsters like Hotfi on aliexpress. If they charge you without shipping anything, there's nothing you can do about it.


----------



## mbwilson111

Plus if someone hacks the debit card they could empty your account.

Even if you eventually get it back you might have problems playing bills.


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> Wow. Never heard of the mail coming on a Sunday... only Amazon Prime.



This is what happens when you contract out mail delivery. You get it when they feel like delivering.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

@mbwilson111 yes, that's very true as well. I wonder if leaving money in paypal is safer.


----------



## mochill

seanc6441 said:


> I bought a second Masya because I couldn’t shake the feeling that my first one was ‘flawed’ somehow or alternatively my ear was sensitive to its frequency response (it’s very bright and tonally it’s up a notch from my usual preference throughout the whole frequency range (except the low end driver which is tuned excellently)
> 
> The good news is my first Masya was not broken, the bad news is I now have 2 and still don’t adore how bright they sound in the midrange lol!
> 
> ...


Mojito isnt bright at all


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 23, 2018)

mochill said:


> Mojito isnt bright at all



Differing opinions here to what was said above. The Masya is very bright with the mids/high’s driver tuning, it’s tonality is not natural imo. It’s not that the treble is fatiguing, it’s easily manageable with the right foams, its just everything seems to be a note too high. Vocals sound a pitch higher than any of my other earbuds, instruments sound great in some ways because of that, but certain music I listen to doesn’t sound right compared to my other earbuds, it definitely doesn’t align with the bass driver tuning which is great, tight and tonally correct. I wish they had tuned it inline with that, would be amazing then, but maybe Rose prefer this signature who knows.

The Mojito i don’t know about. It may or may not share the same tuning.


----------



## artpiggo

For Mojito & Masya User,

I recommend you should use this audio-technica foam > http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/NEOACS-22572
It does create a much more pleasant sound without changing the signature much.


----------



## mochill

seanc6441 said:


> Differing opinions here to what was said above. The Masya is very bright with the mids/high’s driver tuning, it’s tonality is not natural imo. It’s not that the treble is fatiguing, it’s easily manageable with the right foams, its just everything seems to be a note too high. Vocals sound a pitch higher than any of my other earbuds, instruments sound great in some ways because of that, but certain music I listen to doesn’t sound right compared to my other earbuds, it definitely doesn’t align with the bass driver tuning which is great, tight and tonally correct. I wish they had tuned it inline with that, would be amazing then, but maybe Rose prefer this signature who knows.
> 
> The Mojito i don’t know about. It may or may not share the same tuning.


Using the VE thin foams


----------



## DJ The Rocket

artpiggo said:


> For Mojito & Masya User,
> 
> I recommend you should use this audio-technica foam > http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/NEOACS-22572
> It does create a much more pleasant sound without changing the signature much.



Neat, how big is are the Rose buds' faces? Would those foams be too big for other large earbuds? I'm trying to collect as many differing foam types as possible, to keep my tuning options as wide as possible


----------



## chaiyuta

As I remember, Mr. Seanc is the one who always hyped MASYA consecutively that we can find many his thought in this thread, and he is a fan of VE thin foams. Just Kidding, I am thinking his account is hacked.


----------



## artpiggo

DJ The Rocket said:


> Neat, how big is are the Rose buds' faces? Would those foams be too big for other large earbuds? I'm trying to collect as many differing foam types as possible, to keep my tuning options as wide as possible



It is normal size as many buds are. It is tight fit to rose.


----------



## liquidrats

Just got into the earbud game, ordered a penon bs1 official for my bday gift.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 23, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> As I remember, Mr. Seanc is the one who always hyped MASYA consecutively that we can find many his thought in this thread, and he is a fan of VE thin foams. Just Kidding, I am thinking his account is hacked.


Kidding on which part lol

I didn’t hype the masya but I do like the ve thin foams.

I gave the Masya’s enough of a chance now but they just aren’t for me, too bright.

I reckon they need a triple driver and leave the tuning of the treble driver bright and fix the midrange with a new driver


----------



## HungryPanda

I will stand up and hype the Rose Masya now then, bloody love them


----------



## HungryPanda

@seanc which cables did you buy with them?


----------



## rkw

mochill said:


> Mojito isnt bright at all


Interesting, because in TOTL comparisons, I've seen it consistently described as having the brightest signature. In fact, it has dissuaded me from purchasing a pair.


----------



## mochill

Definitely not bright


----------



## chinmie

HungryPanda said:


> I will stand up and hype the Rose Masya now then, bloody love them



please don't... I've just purchased a new toy already


----------



## Danneq

I found Mojito to be far to bright for me. The complete opposite of Zen 2 which is very dark and veiled sounding.

But different people have different preferences...


----------



## noknok23

@seanc6441 about mojito, maybe it's a bad pairing, you still use sabre dac? It's too cold 

Warm, analog, body, rich and big soundstage, it's what you want right? I think it would be worth it for you  to save up and try cypherus earbuds. CF2 and above.


----------



## rkw

mochill said:


> Definitely not bright


To put this in perspective, which earbuds do you find to be bright?


----------



## Danneq

Another thing: no more Ali express for us Swedes. The Swedish state has in all its wisdom decided to put a stop to Swedes buying cheaps stuff from Chinese online sellers. From March (?) a fee of 125 SEK (about $15.50) for ALL parcels from China, no matter the stated value. That fee used to only be added to parcels with a stated value over ~$40. But now it will not matter if the stated value is $3. You will still have to pay $15.50 to get your package.

That can be acceptable if you buy something like Moondrop Liebsleid and the seller puts $10 as the value. But not if you buy a pair of VE Monk or something like that.

Feels like living in a goddamn communist country. I'll be sticking to Ebay and mainly European sellers from now on...


----------



## golov17

@Danneq  so sad


----------



## noknok23

The problem is most mailpost companies has much more work to do since the AliExpress boom but they don't get any money nor benefit from it unless they explicitly negotiate deals with them(Like postnl did).
I wouldn't be surprised if some sellers find a way to circumvent this Swedish nonsense. By using a proxy in UK or Germany for example.


----------



## theoutsider

Danneq said:


> Another thing: no more Ali express for us Swedes. The Swedish state has in all its wisdom decided to put a stop to Swedes buying cheaps stuff from Chinese online sellers. From March (?) a fee of 125 SEK (about $15.50) for ALL parcels from China, no matter the stated value. That fee used to only be added to parcels with a stated value over ~$40. But now it will not matter if the stated value is $3. You will still have to pay $15.50 to get your package.


Sorry to hear that you have been cut off from el cheapo earbuds.


----------



## golov17

Your opinion: for metal with dx90 is preferable Shozy bk vs Penon bs1?


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> Another thing: no more Ali express for us Swedes. The Swedish state has in all its wisdom decided to put a stop to Swedes buying cheaps stuff from Chinese online sellers. From March (?) a fee of 125 SEK (about $15.50) for ALL parcels from China, no matter the stated value. That fee used to only be added to parcels with a stated value over ~$40. But now it will not matter if the stated value is $3. You will still have to pay $15.50 to get your package.
> 
> That can be acceptable if you buy something like Moondrop Liebsleid and the seller puts $10 as the value. But not if you buy a pair of VE Monk or something like that.
> 
> Feels like living in a goddamn communist country. I'll be sticking to Ebay and mainly European sellers from now on...



Ouch! I suspect this might happen in more EU countries before long.


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> Ouch! I suspect this might happen in more EU countries before long.



What just happened?How did that quote come up as me?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 24, 2018)

artpiggo said:


> For Mojito & Masya User,
> 
> I recommend you should use this audio-technica foam > http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/NEOACS-22572
> It does create a much more pleasant sound without changing the signature much.


YES! You’re comment gave me the idea to use the VE Ex pack full foams (they look very similar in composition to these ATH foams, they must be less dense than stock Masya foams but still medium density.

Now the tonality is the right amount of brightness!!! I’ve literally tried over 30 foams on these things with no luck on getting that ‘right’ sound until now...

I usually hate full foams but these just work... Now I can use these Masya’s if I want a brighter sound but the midrange sounds pretty nice now! Definitely a massive improvement over any other foam I’ve tried.

Thank you for the advice and also the recommendation of smartphone a short while ago 

You’re the man (/woman?)! lol


----------



## seanc6441

liquidrats said:


> Just got into the earbud game, ordered a penon bs1 official for my bday gift.


Great choice I hope the cable isn’t too heavy for you (I found it slightly annoying at times but managable) but the sound is amazing for the price! Happy Birthday!


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> What just happened?How did that quote come up as me?



I think I quoted Danneq who might previously gave quoted you. I never thought of deleting the quote marks, as that's a pain from this phone. Weird though.


----------



## mochill

rkw said:


> To put this in perspective, which earbuds do you find to be bright?


I don't have one that is bright but did have one before which was the dunu alpha1


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 24, 2018)

mochill said:


> I don't have one that is bright but did have one before which was the dunu alpha1


I’m surprised yo don’t find the Masya bright even a little bit, especially with the thin foams!

Have you ever heard the Toneking Tomahawk? That’s a fairly bright sound but to me about the same as the Masya just with a slightly more grainy high’s.

I’m keeping my Masya now (not sure what to do with the second one lol) because the VE full thick foams were a game changer for the tonality, but it’s still one of my brighter earbuds overall, very clean clear sound though and I’m happy to have the contrast to my usual signatures of my other buds. Also I find the treble very pleasant which is unusual in a bright earbud, it’s easily tamed with foams and extended nicely.

Radiohead’s ‘paranoid android’ is my go to treble testing track, if you can handle that track with a bright earbud you know it’s tuned very well in the high’s.


----------



## antdroid

seanc6441 said:


> I’m surprised yo don’t find the Masya bright even a little bit, especially with the thin foams!
> 
> Have you ever heard the Toneking Tomahawk? That’s a fairly bright sound but to me about the same as the Masya just with a slightly more grainy high’s.
> 
> ...



The masya is my favorite ear bud I've tried thus far. I can deal with it with donuts but I think it sounds better with the full foam. I use the VE Foams that came with the espresso monks. It's a brighter ear bud, but it's not ear piercing bright to me at all.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 24, 2018)

antdroid said:


> The masya is my favorite ear bud I've tried thus far. I can deal with it with donuts but I think it sounds better with the full foam. I use the VE Foams that came with the espresso monks. It's a brighter ear bud, but it's not ear piercing bright to me at all.


The VE thick foams? (thicker than the super thin foams supplied too) That’s what I’m using.

Lucky you picked those I’ve tried a gazillion foams with my Masya and most either dulled the clarity or were too thin and made the mids screech with brightness. But these foams are perfect. The donuts didn’t do it for me with the masya, too thin on the mids and less balance overall.

It’s no wonder you preferred the Masya over the BS1 I thought you were mad but I understand now with these foams, the Masya is very pleasant sounding and I now enjoy all three of my premium earbuds each with their own strenghts.


----------



## antdroid

seanc6441 said:


> The VE thick foams? (thicker than the super thin foams supplied too) That’s what I’m using.
> 
> Lucky you picked those I’ve tried a gazillion foams with my Masya and most either dulled the clarity or were too thin and made the mids screech with brightness. But these foams are perfect. The donuts didn’t do it for me with the masya, too thin on the mids and less balance overall.
> 
> It’s no wonder you preferred the Masya over the BS1 I thought you were mad but I understand now with these foams, the Masya is very pleasant sounding and I now enjoy all three of my premium earbuds each with their own strenghts.



I switch back and forth between thick/thin. There are very subtle differences to me. I prefer the thick for comfort/fit though.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Radiohead’s ‘paranoid android’ is my go to treble testing track, if you can handle that track with a bright earbud you know it’s tuned very well in the high’s.



+1


----------



## DJ The Rocket

seanc6441 said:


> over 30 foams




I have VE donuts and full foams and Heigi/Feng donuts and full foams. What are some of the other 28 kinds? If you just highlight a few of the best/most interesting/most unusual that would be fine


----------



## mochill

seanc6441 said:


> The VE thick foams? (thicker than the super thin foams supplied too) That’s what I’m using.
> 
> Lucky you picked those I’ve tried a gazillion foams with my Masya and most either dulled the clarity or were too thin and made the mids screech with brightness. But these foams are perfect. The donuts didn’t do it for me with the masya, too thin on the mids and less balance overall.
> 
> It’s no wonder you preferred the Masya over the BS1 I thought you were mad but I understand now with these foams, the Masya is very pleasant sounding and I now enjoy all three of my premium earbuds each with their own strenghts.


I have the mojito not mayasa


----------



## seanc6441

DJ The Rocket said:


> I have VE donuts and full foams and Heigi/Feng donuts and full foams. What are some of the other 28 kinds? If you just highlight a few of the best/most interesting/most unusual that would be fine


Combinations and my rough estimate lol

So like I tried thin foams and donut over it, etc, etc.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 24, 2018)

mochill said:


> I have the mojito not mayasa


This post was in response to Antdroid. He bought the Masya/BS1 off my recommendation a short time ago and seems to prefer the Masya.

I’m just glad he liked earbuds


----------



## mochill

Mojito is etheral in sound with amazing bass response and clear transparent sound, big grand soundstage


----------



## Saoshyant

mochill said:


> Mojito is etheral in sound with amazing bass response and clear transparent sound, big grand soundstage



Probably still my favorite for orchestral/classical, although I tend to use my CampFreds more just for versatility.  Feels like I've come a long way from the Ety HF5 I used to use for most of my classical listening.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Jan 24, 2018)

mochill said:


> Mojito is etheral in sound with amazing bass response and clear transparent sound, big grand soundstage



This Is interesting, so many different opinions on the same things!

Do you mean ethereal as in the same ethereal that's found in the '70s/'80s Stax Lambdas? I don't know what else would even compare. Like, everything is recessed, nothing is too forward? 



seanc6441 said:


> Combinations and my rough estimate lol
> 
> So like I tried thin foams and donut over it, etc, etc.





seanc6441 said:


> Combinations and my rough estimate lol
> 
> So like I tried thin foams and donut over it, etc, etc.



Oops I hope you didn't think I was making fun! I know you were exaggerating, but are thin VEs and thick Heigis all we've got?

Not counting the weird silicone yurbuds things, yech....


----------



## Harry_H (Jan 24, 2018)

Hello, from where you order  cypherus buds? Tried to google, with no luck


----------



## Harry_H

....


----------



## silverfishla

I love  both the Masya and Mojito.  I think a lot  of the varying ideas about their sound has to do with the way that they fit.  It's been discussed here many times, with many different variations on how people like to stack their foams or other ingenious ways to get them to fit right in their ears.  It seems to me, that, a lot of the times the reason for sticking a donut on top of a regular foam was to get a good fit and not necessarily to attenuate it's sound.  I used to do this too.  I'd stack a donut over a full thin foam in order to get a good fit.  The bass got deeper, but they would lose a bit of that "ethereal" sound that @mochill mentions.  Not to mention, with the thin edge of both these buds, they end up swimming around and angling around unwantedly as the foams loosen up.  The foams stick in your ears, but the bud itself starts moving around, making you have to adjust the buds often.  My solution to this was to add a strip of camera repair rubber around the ring, to add a bit of girth (making them more comparable to standard bud size) and to keep the foams from moving around.  Now, they fit better and I can shake my head around without losing my fit.
I can now use a single foam.  I get back my "ethereal" quality and get a better bass, which in turn, evens out the very clear highs.  I find both of these buds to be very proficient in all respects, from bass to treble to great soundstage.  The Mojito is amazing in balanced mode, so clear AND lush from my Shanling M3s.  The Masya sounds great (leaner and more vocal oriented than the Mojito) from most any source.  Both are very easy to drive and still sound great from lowly sources like a Shanling M1.
Here's a pic of my Mojito with the band rubber.  The rubber is cushy, so it is comfortable in the ear.


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> What just happened?How did that quote come up as me?



Head-fi values your opinion more?


----------



## j4100

Harry_H said:


> Hello, from where you order  cypherus buds? Tried to google, with no luck



https://www.cypherusaudio.com/


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 24, 2018)

DJ The Rocket said:


> This Is interesting, so many different opinions on the same things!
> 
> Do you mean ethereal as in the same ethereal that's found in the '70s/'80s Stax Lambdas? I don't know what else would even compare. Like, everything is recessed, nothing is too forward?
> 
> ...


No worries I knew your question was genuine, I’ve tried many different variants of foam some very similar some different.

Realistically there’s

-thick full foams (heigi, generic)
-thin full foams (VE: ‘old’ are thinnest, ‘new’ are slightly thicker)
-thick donuts (heigi and VE)
-Regular donuts (mostly generic)
-thin donuts (VE, DIY cut out yourself)

But of course there’s multiple kinds of full and donut foams and most have slightly different densities, size and thickness


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 24, 2018)

silverfishla said:


> I love  both the Masya and Mojito.  I think a lot  of the varying ideas about their sound has to do with the way that they fit.  It's been discussed here many times, with many different variations on how people like to stack their foams or other ingenious ways to get them to fit right in their ears.  It seems to me, that, a lot of the times the reason for sticking a donut on top of a regular foam was to get a good fit and not necessarily to attenuate it's sound.  I used to do this too.  I'd stack a donut over a full thin foam in order to get a good fit.  The bass got deeper, but they would lose a bit of that "ethereal" sound that @mochill mentions.  Not to mention, with the thin edge of both these buds, they end up swimming around and angling around unwantedly as the foams loosen up.  The foams stick in your ears, but the bud itself starts moving around, making you have to adjust the buds often.  My solution to this was to add a strip of camera repair rubber around the ring, to add a bit of girth (making them more comparable to standard bud size) and to keep the foams from moving around.  Now, they fit better and I can shake my head around without losing my fit.
> I can now use a single foam.  I get back my "ethereal" quality and get a better bass, which in turn, evens out the very clear highs.  I find both of these buds to be very proficient in all respects, from bass to treble to great soundstage.  The Mojito is amazing in balanced mode, so clear AND lush from my Shanling M3s.  The Masya sounds great (leaner and more vocal oriented than the Mojito) from most any source.  Both are very easy to drive and still sound great from lowly sources like a Shanling M1.
> Here's a pic of my Mojito with the band rubber.  The rubber is cushy, so it is comfortable in the ear.



See now you don’t hear many people mention that the Mojito is more lush than the Masya, I agree Masya is clear and lean but I like it’s tonality with the full foams well enough.

The mojito sounds amazing I’d love to hear it, as for fit I found the diameter to be perfect (adding that tape would be too much for my ear) but what I tested before was to get blue tack and apply a thin strip around the back of the front grille, where the bud rests on the ear, then mould it evenly onto the surface and place them in your ears allowing the blue tack to mould slightly to the shape of your ear.

Now why bluetack? Surely that will never hold it’s shape and well get messy fast. Well indeed, but after you’ve confirmed that the bluetack helps with the fit (thicker moulded front piece) you can try sugru mouldable tack. Apply it the same way as the bluetack, mould to ear, let it set over night.

Theoretically you’ll now have a moulded shell to fit your ear better that is durable and pretty resistant to breaking (unless you really wanted it removed).

I only ever tried the tack myself and a foam over it, the fit was excellent but I didn’t want to mess with my masya because I thought mine was flawed until yesterday and today trying the latest foams to ‘fix’ it’s sound. But if the shell was giving me issues I’d try the sugru or method mentioned above.

Anyway if anybody was having an issue with the shell design that could possibly be another solution.


----------



## Danneq

groucho69 said:


> Head-fi values your opinion more?



Us Swedes are always discriminated! Stupid Head-fi!


----------



## seanc6441

Danneq said:


> Us Swedes are always discriminated! Stupid Head-fi!


Look on the bright side you still have the lovely blondes.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Some Lyra Classic eye-candy for the thread 

  ​


----------



## seanc6441

B9Scrambler said:


> Some Lyra Classic eye-candy for the thread
> 
> ​


Is the foam on the back removeable? Seems like it would get dirty pretty quickly.


----------



## silverfishla

seanc6441 said:


> Is the foam on the back removeable? Seems like it would get dirty pretty quickly.


I think those are titanium or some sort of metal ball-screen and not foam as the back filter.  My B&W IEMs had that.


----------



## B9Scrambler

seanc6441 said:


> Is the foam on the back removeable? Seems like it would get dirty pretty quickly.



It's a metal filter, not removable. I'm sure it would collect some dirt over time. That said, someone buying a 140 USD earbud would probably be sure to take care to keep them clean, or at least I hope they would.


----------



## mochill

DJ The Rocket said:


> This Is interesting, so many different opinions on the same things!
> 
> Do you mean ethereal as in the same ethereal that's found in the '70s/'80s Stax Lambdas? I don't know what else would even compare. Like, everything is recessed, nothing is too forward?
> 
> ...


Etheral as in black background and open


----------



## waynes world

B9Scrambler said:


> It's a metal filter, not removable. I'm sure it would collect some dirt over time. That said, someone buying a 140 USD earbud would probably be sure to take care to keep them clean, or at least I hope they would.



Yup, take care of them. And, they wouldn`t be my first choice for paddleboarding buds either lol.


----------



## seanc6441

mochill said:


> Etheral as in black background and open


Headfi terminology is a tricky business lol


----------



## groucho69

Considering there is no consensus even on "loud" I tend to proceed with caution.


----------



## artpiggo

seanc6441 said:


> YES! You’re comment gave me the idea to use the VE Ex pack full foams (they look very similar in composition to these ATH foams, they must be less dense than stock Masya foams but still medium density.
> 
> Now the tonality is the right amount of brightness!!! I’ve literally tried over 30 foams on these things with no luck on getting that ‘right’ sound until now...
> 
> ...



Good to hear that my recommendation does help you find a final answer for your earbud.

I am a man btw.


----------



## ClieOS

B9Scrambler said:


> It's a metal filter, not removable. I'm sure it would collect some dirt over time. That said, someone buying a 140 USD earbud would probably be sure to take care to keep them clean, or at least I hope they would.



I am not even sure if it is a filter as Astrotec claimed. I tried to block them completely off and it didn't seem to make any difference in sound, make me wonder if it really is just there purely for aesthetical reason.


----------



## ClieOS

silverfishla said:


> I think My B&W IEMs had that.



I think now you can easily guess who OEMed those B&W's - kind of a known secret among the Chinese actually. There was a planned B&W earbud in the early day as well. But it was cancelled and then Lyra came out.


----------



## liquidrats

seanc6441 said:


> Great choice I hope the cable isn’t too heavy for you (I found it slightly annoying at times but managable) but the sound is amazing for the price! Happy Birthday!


thanks for your wishes! I heard about the heavy cable also, I can use it at the office, not really suitable for commute since there will be sound leak.


----------



## golov17

@Danneq 
https://headphones.shopping/?s=K's
alternative site


----------



## letlive

seanc6441 said:


> I assume all the emxs-500’s sound the same so it’s probably a good choice yeah. I only have the original emx-500 so cannot give my own opinion on the emxs-500.


Alright, thanks again. Now I'm making my final decision between these, the AUGLAMOUR RX-1S and the TONEKING TP16. What would you say/choose?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 25, 2018)

I have used the RX1... it’s very inoffensive and clarity is great but it’s not very dynamic and mainly a mid centric neutral sound.

TP16 sounds better balanced from what I’ve read. RX1 is analytical sounding in the mids, somewhat dry and detailed but it lacks any fullness in the low mids or sparkle in the highs so it’s not the most fun sound.

The RX1 isn’t bad it’s just more not very engaging sound wise other than having nice vocal clarity and a resonablely neutral sound, it’s a bit average in every other aspect with no sub bass and rolled off treble. If that’s what you want (mid focused sound) then it’s an option but the TP 16 should be a better choice for most people looking for a balanced signature.


----------



## theoutsider (Jan 25, 2018)

letlive said:


> Alright, thanks again. Now I'm making my final decision between these, the AUGLAMOUR RX-1S and the TONEKING TP16. What would you say/choose?


I used to have both. If you use it for music, pick TP16. If you are getting it for movies, choose Auglamour.

In short, get TP16, since you are probably using it to listen to music.


----------



## seanc6441

Ok I listened to RX1 again...

More fun than I remembered. still not much sub bass but with a good seal of thick foam it’s acceptable bass, clarity is great, still neutral to my ears, treble is polite and clear.

It’s an option better than I remembered without the thicker foam it’s not as good but with monk thin + monk donut over it it’s really nice too.

Hmm sorry for making it sound bad it’s actually pretty nice and I’m pretty sure i said this a few months ago too that it’s surprisingly good with the right foams. i just forgot I said it lol


----------



## chinmie

letlive said:


> What do you think about these ones (clear with mic) as an "upgrade"?





letlive said:


> Alright, thanks again. Now I'm making my final decision between these, the AUGLAMOUR RX-1S and the TONEKING TP16. What would you say/choose?



if you already have EMX500, then RX-1 and TP16 would be a sidegrade. if you still would try them and choose only one, i suggest you try the RX, because it sounds different to the EMX, and also it has different form factor, whereas the TP16 is similar both in sound and the same form as the EMX. Different is good...you just might like them or find them better on a different scenario


----------



## theoutsider (Jan 25, 2018)

My NOS Crossroads HR1 arrived today

... the 10 year old sponge that came in the box disintegrated


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> if you already have EMX500, then RX-1 and TP16 would be a sidegrade. if you still would try them and choose only one, i suggest you try the RX, because it sounds different to the EMX, and also it has different form factor, whereas the TP16 is similar both in sound and the same form as the EMX. Different is good...you just might like them or find them better on a different scenario


Good advice, RX1 and EMX500 are different enough to make sense for a side grade. Otherwise you may as well save money for upgrade.


----------



## theoutsider (Jan 26, 2018)

Curiosity killed the earbuds

Notes:
They didn't use Yuin PK1 drivers in CrossRoads HR1.
Two of the exposed holes are blocked by a guiding feature from the back cover.
The exact impedance of HR1 is 155ohm.
Compared to the two exposed openings at the back of PK1, one of the openings at the back of HR1 is blocked by plastic.


----------



## wokashraf

question..
1.can you re-cable hifiman es100?
2. Anyone has listen to sharp MD earbud? good cheap budget or trash?


----------



## vladstef

Glad to see Auglamour RX-1 occasionally making a comeback here. After months spent with EMX500 and RX-1, although I prefer emx500's extensions on both ends, RX-1 just has a better overall resolution and mid-range performance that is very hard to beat. Like many people, I've had a couple of revelations in terms of fitting RX-1 which made the biggest difference in the end.
The driver is also much better on RX-1, you can amp it a lot without any distortion while EMX struggles to maintain bass stability even on low gain - nothing severe just shows the driver quality in comparison. This gives RX-1 a lot of potential for EQ-ing down in combination with an amp which can change the perception of extensions and bring it closer to EMX while maintaining that beautiful vocal/instrument presentation (you can try to EQ up in a typical V shape fashion but this is something that I can never recommend due to loss of quality).

RX-1 is underrated for a reason though, some people struggle to find a good fit with it, but others just fall in love with this gem of an earbud.


----------



## Saoshyant

The TP16 is an underrated and pleasant earbud, performing above it's cost.  The issue, however, is so are the EMX500 & RX1.  I agree that there's no real need for TP16 except either collection purposes or bassy EQ as mine responds better than my EMX500 in this respect.

The RX1 without question is an excellent choice for those seeking a vocals based earbud in the budget range.  It has a very interesting set of accessories, a phenomenal build quality, and strictly speaking from a detail perspective is outstanding for the price.  Bassheads will find it lacking.

I still also suggest **** PT15 for those treble-heads out there.


----------



## silverfishla

letlive said:


> Alright, thanks again. Now I'm making my final decision between these, the AUGLAMOUR RX-1S and the TONEKING TP16. What would you say/choose?


Try the Moondrop Nameless.  It’s in between.  Great timbre for vocals and good for music.
And great build quality.


----------



## chinmie

wokashraf said:


> question..
> 1.can you re-cable hifiman es100?
> 2. Anyone has listen to sharp MD earbud? good cheap budget or trash?



I have the MDs, to me it's good budget buds like the vido, that on fact i bought a couple to put strategically around the house. Sound similar to monks with better bass extension and quantity. I prefer the MD than the monks


----------



## chinmie

Listening 90s grunge/alternative with the RX-1 is bliss


----------



## antdroid

seanc6441 said:


> This post was in response to Antdroid. He bought the Masya/BS1 off my recommendation a short time ago and seems to prefer the Masya.
> 
> I’m just glad he liked earbuds



Heh just to be clear, I had the Masya's already but you definitely convinced me to get the BS1s. 

I ended up selling the BS1 last week though. They are great for what they are, but just wasnt exactly what I was looking for. I picked up a set of Noble X IEMs with the funding and they are fantastic. Never thought I'd like IEMs but here we are....

I am considering selling the Masya's as well and just moving up to Mojito class. I've gotten a bunch of offers for them but I've chickened out on selling because it's hard to part with these ones. They are also my wireless ear buds for working out when I use them with the bt adapter.


----------



## seanc6441

antdroid said:


> Heh just to be clear, I had the Masya's already but you definitely convinced me to get the BS1s.
> 
> I ended up selling the BS1 last week though. They are great for what they are, but just wasnt exactly what I was looking for. I picked up a set of Noble X IEMs with the funding and they are fantastic. Never thought I'd like IEMs but here we are....
> 
> I am considering selling the Masya's as well and just moving up to Mojito class. I've gotten a bunch of offers for them but I've chickened out on selling because it's hard to part with these ones. They are also my wireless ear buds for working out when I use them with the bt adapter.


Whoops I think I was mistaking you for someone else then 

Yeah if you do get the Mojito I’d love to hear your impressions. Make sure to get the latest version I think the build quality is better than the original Mojito.


----------



## doggiemom

silverfishla said:


> Try the Moondrop Nameless.  It’s in between.  Great timbre for vocals and good for music.
> And great build quality.


My Moondrop Nameless arrived broken.    The stem from the bud was cracked.  The box it came in was sealed and not damaged.

I bought it from AliExpress, so didn't bother with the hassle/cost of returning them.


----------



## silverfishla

doggiemom said:


> My Moondrop Nameless arrived broken.    The stem from the bud was cracked.  The box it came in was sealed and not damaged.
> 
> I bought it from AliExpress, so didn't bother with the hassle/cost of returning them.


Did you notify the seller?  If an item of low cost comes damaged or broken, there are times when the seller won’t ask you to return it, just prove that it’s broken and send you a new one.  Wild Lee from VE just has you make a video of yourself cutting the item into pieces and send it to him.


----------



## chinmie

doggiemom said:


> My Moondrop Nameless arrived broken.    The stem from the bud was cracked.  The box it came in was sealed and not damaged.
> 
> I bought it from AliExpress, so didn't bother with the hassle/cost of returning them.



always record the unboxing, so you have proof when making a complaint to the seller. some seller would settle with sending a new one or refund without the need to return the broken unit


----------



## Guggga

Just a heads up, the monk lite 120ohm is back in stock at veclan.com. 6 pieces left.


----------



## chellity

Guggga said:


> Just a heads up, the monk lite 120ohm is back in stock at veclan.com. 6 pieces left.



Thanks for the heads up, I grabbed #2 just now!  One monk lite 120 up for grabs as of now..


----------



## j4100

I'm tempted, but I'll wait until the RA2.0blite is ready.

Apparently my NiceHCK EBX is finally in the country. Not bad, since I bought it on 29th Nov. Maybe get it next week now!


----------



## chaiyuta

antdroid said:


> Heh just to be clear, I had the Masya's already but you definitely convinced me to get the BS1s.
> 
> I ended up selling the BS1 last week though. They are great for what they are, but just wasnt exactly what I was looking for. I picked up a set of Noble X IEMs with the funding and they are fantastic. Never thought I'd like IEMs but here we are....
> 
> I am considering selling the Masya's as well and just moving up to Mojito class. I've gotten a bunch of offers for them but I've chickened out on selling because it's hard to part with these ones. They are also my wireless ear buds for working out when I use them with the bt adapter.



You made a right decision. Unfortunately, in my country there is no hype on Penon BS1, so I guess I can't resale it fast and reasonable price if I do.


----------



## theoutsider (Jan 26, 2018)

Guggga said:


> Just a heads up, the monk lite 120ohm is back in stock at veclan.com. 6 pieces left.


Thanks for notifying, I bought the last piece of monk lite 120 white.


----------



## letlive

silverfishla said:


> Try the Moondrop Nameless.  It’s in between.  Great timbre for vocals and good for music.
> And great build quality.


Thanks, but is has no mic 

Thank you guys, I'll try the RX-1S! Do you think that there will be any problems with these pads?


----------



## zeta555 (Jan 26, 2018)

hey guys

i'm looking to buy a TOTL earbud that's good for top 40 music.

any recommendation?

edit: balanced cable is preferred


----------



## Guggga (Jan 26, 2018)

zeta555 said:


> hey guys
> 
> i'm looking to buy a TOTL earbud that's good for top 40 music.
> 
> ...


Since you're from Indonesia, you could check out the Willsound mk2. I got the mk2 special edition recently and I can't stop listening to it. Sounds like a full size headphone and the clarity, bass and Soundstage is mind blowing for the price. I've done a semi review of sorts over at the earbuds anonymous group. To save on shipping, I ordered mine through the Rohluphat site.

Edit : most find the willsound mk2 a direct upgrade over the Emx500, personally I never liked the hot highs and loose bass of the Emx500. But the willsound is another level in terms of clarity and tightness of sound. It's an allrounder and works well with everything I've heard so far. This includes metal, jazz, deep house and acoustic.


----------



## zeta555

Guggga said:


> Since you're from Indonesia, you could check out the Willsound mk2. I got the mk2 special edition recently and I can't stop listening to it. Sounds like a full size headphone and the clarity, bass and Soundstage is mind blowing for the price. I've done a semi review of sorts over at the earbuds anonymous group. To save on shipping, I ordered mine through the Rohluphat site.
> 
> Edit : most find the willsound mk2 a direct upgrade over the Emx500, personally I never liked the hot highs and loose bass of the Emx500. But the willsound is another level in terms of clarity and tightness of sound. It's an allrounder and works well with everything I've heard so far. This includes metal, jazz, deep house and acoustic.


I'm looking more at the top of the line level, do you think the willsound mk2 is better than the mx985, and the shozy bk?


----------



## Guggga

I haven't heard either of those, sorry.


----------



## zeta555

Guggga said:


> I haven't heard either of those, sorry.


it's okay man, I'll check the willsound out. it's pretty reasonably priced.

but as I only planned to really keep 1 earbud, I'm still looking for something that's the best my budget can buy.


----------



## j4100

zeta555 said:


> I'm looking more at the top of the line level, do you think the willsound mk2 is better than the mx985, and the shozy bk?



Rholupat (who also supply the Willsound) have the Edimun V3 in balanced. You can search this thread for impressions, as quite a few people had them.

I haven't gone balanced yet, so cannot offer any personal opinions. I'm sure others will chime in soon though.


----------



## chinmie

zeta555 said:


> hey guys
> 
> i'm looking to buy a TOTL earbud that's good for top 40 music.
> 
> ...



what kind of sound signature do you prefer?


----------



## zeta555

j4100 said:


> Rholupat (who also supply the Willsound) have the Edimun V3 in balanced. You can search this thread for impressions, as quite a few people had them.
> 
> I haven't gone balanced yet, so cannot offer any personal opinions. I'm sure others will chime in soon though.


nice, I'll look into that. 


chinmie said:


> what kind of sound signature do you prefer?


I'm not really good at explaining this but I like yuin pk3, and I don't really like ve zen 2. does that help at all?


----------



## chinmie

zeta555 said:


> nice, I'll look into that.
> 
> I'm not really good at explaining this but I like yuin pk3, and I don't really like ve zen 2. does that help at all?


unfortunately i haven't heard the PK3 and Zen 2 yet. the Edimun is similar to the Zen 1. concerning TOTLs, my recommendation would be Liebesleid if you prefer detail and clarity, Samsara (or Poseidon, but i personally haven't heard this one)  if you prefer big bass and treble, BK if you like fast and punchy mids


----------



## zeta555

chinmie said:


> unfortunately i haven't heard the PK3 and Zen 2 yet. the Edimun is similar to the Zen 1. concerning TOTLs, my recommendation would be Liebesleid if you prefer detail and clarity, Samsara (or Poseidon, but i personally haven't heard this one)  if you prefer big bass and treble, BK if you like fast and punchy mids


thank you! which one is the best for female vocals? and how about the mojito?


----------



## seanc6441

letlive said:


> Thanks, but is has no mic
> 
> Thank you guys, I'll try the RX-1S! Do you think that there will be any problems with these pads?


I don’t think they will work with the RX1 shell design, I’d be very surprised if they didn’t just fall off easily.

Is it for running/gym use? or just to keep them in your ears? I found the combo of thin foam and donut foam a very good fit and they never felt even close to falling out with this setup.


----------



## seanc6441

zeta555 said:


> thank you! which one is the best for female vocals? and how about the mojito?


I think the liebsleid is described as similar to the Mojito but more musical. Maybe check out the reviews of the liebsleid?


----------



## letlive

My problem is that I can't use Earbuds withouth those pads. Anyway, I ordered them. We will see


----------



## zeta555

seanc6441 said:


> I think the liebsleid is described as similar to the Mojito but more musical. Maybe check out the reviews of the liebsleid?


after looking at the reviews of liebesleid i think this is the winner. but i'm still open to suggestion!


----------



## seanc6441

letlive said:


> My problem is that I can't use Earbuds withouth those pads. Anyway, I ordered them. We will see


Oh okay, you should try the VE pack it has those earhooks included anyway and the foams I suggested from before.

I really think these foams have a much more secure fit than most but obviously I cannot guarantee they will fit.


----------



## seanc6441

zeta555 said:


> after looking at the reviews of liebesleid i think this is the winner. but i'm still open to suggestion!


Ok if you’re willing to spend the money the liebsleid or new K’s Poseidon will be your best bet most likely.

Alternatives are the Cypherus buds or Shozy BK for a more analog sound.

If you wanna save some money you could try the Penon BS1 official for $99 I love it and consider it on par with my $150 shozy bk but if you’re really set on the best of the best I guess the liebsleid, Mojito, K’s, or Cypherus Red Dragon ($700? lol) is the way to go.

The liebsleid and the K’s even look the same haha, maybe that style will work for your ear and the SQ is obviously one of the best around (although i’ve not heard it personally)


----------



## ctaxxxx

Is there way to buy K’s Poseidon yet, other than Taobao?


----------



## Mimouille

Someone mentioned Liebesleid reviews. Where are these to be found?


----------



## seanc6441

Mimouille said:


> Someone mentioned Liebesleid reviews. Where are these to be found?


Opinions on here might be the best answer, if you use the search function you may find some from clieos and others.

Or search google might be some there idk.


----------



## zeta555

seanc6441 said:


> Ok if you’re willing to spend the money the liebsleid or new K’s Poseidon will be your best bet most likely.
> 
> Alternatives are the Cypherus buds or Shozy BK for a more analog sound.
> 
> ...


yeah, i'm already looking for any liebesleid for sale in my country. lol

i'm still curious about the poseidon, but 215 ohm is a deal breaker for me.


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> *always record the unboxing*, so you have proof when making a complaint to the seller. some seller would settle with sending a new one or refund without the need to return the broken unit



Good idea. I have never had any problems with new gear, but I'm gonna do that from now on.



Guggga said:


> Just a heads up, the monk lite 120ohm is back in stock at veclan.com. 6 pieces left.



I had one of them all queued up. But I have one on the way, so I somehow managed to exercise rare restraint and I let them go. Very proud of myself lol.


----------



## Saoshyant

Someone mind posting a Poseidon link?  Have to admit I'm curious


----------



## j4100

waynes world said:


> I had one of them all queued up. But I have one on the way, so I somehow managed to exercise rare restraint and I let them go. Very proud of myself lol.



You're a credit to the Earbuds Roundup thread and a shining example to us all 

I badly need to follow your example.


----------



## seanc6441

zeta555 said:


> yeah, i'm already looking for any liebesleid for sale in my country. lol
> 
> i'm still curious about the poseidon, but 215 ohm is a deal breaker for me.


“ the latest K's flagship is named Poseidon, while Final Acoustics is the company that partnered with K's to develop these new earbuds (including the bell series).

Technically both Liebesleid and Poseidon are at the current ToTL level, but sonically they aretuned very differently. Liebesleid is detailed, open and almost neutral with a particularly good female vocal. Poseidon is warm, musical,smooth and enveloping with an excellent lowend.”

Details from ClieOS.


----------



## theoutsider

waynes world said:


> Good idea. I have never had any problems with new gear, but I'm gonna do that from now on.





doggiemom said:


> My Moondrop Nameless arrived broken.    The stem from the bud was cracked.  The box it came in was sealed and not damaged.


I filmed my 2 weeks old earphones to show that something was rattling inside, the aliX merchant offered to give me a pair of Vido as compensation.



waynes world said:


> I had one of them all queued up. But I have one on the way, so I somehow managed to exercise rare restraint and I let them go. Very proud of myself lol.


My white 120 monk lite will arrive ~ 1 month later.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 26, 2018)

@waynes world

Last time I checked the tracking, my white 120ohm Monk Lite were on the way to Heathrow.  My 40 ohm SPC one arrived last Saturday...8 days after I ordered.  Have you checked your tracking?  We are in a race  I ordered about an hour earlier than you.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> “ the latest K's flagship is named Poseidon, while Final Acoustics is the company that partnered with K's to develop these new earbuds (including the bell series).
> 
> Technically both Liebesleid and Poseidon are at the current ToTL level, but sonically they aretuned very differently. Liebesleid is detailed, open and almost neutral with a particularly good female vocal. *Poseidon is warm, musical,smooth and enveloping with an excellent lowend.*”
> 
> Details from ClieOS.



Poseidon for the win! (at least for my ears!)


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 26, 2018)

waynes world said:


> Poseidon for the win! (at least for my ears!)


They complete each other, you need both 

Maybe rewire one poseidon and one liebsleid to right left channels and have the ultimate sound xD


----------



## theoutsider (Jan 26, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Last time I checked the tracking, my white 120ohm Monk Lite were on the war to Heathrow.  My 40 ohm SPC one arrived last Saturday...8 days after I ordered.  Have you checked your tracking?  We are in a race  I ordered about an hour earlier than you.


I am sure mine will arrive later.

I bagged the last piece of 120 white offered today... then I coughed out some blood.

Someone who've tried in vain to get it must be hating me. Nyek nyek nyek


----------



## mbwilson111

theoutsider said:


> I am sure mine will arrive later.
> 
> I bagged the last piece of 120 white offered today... then I coughed out some blood.
> 
> Someone who've tried in vain to get it must be hating me. Nyek nyek nyek



I know,  I had my quotes mixed up.  Wayne and I both ordered last Friday.  I had to get up to do it during what was the middle of the night for me.  Yes, 6am is the middle of the night for me. Happy the time was announced earlier in the week.  I did not even know about this weeks batch.


----------



## rkw (Jan 26, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> “ the latest K's flagship is named Poseidon, while Final Acoustics is the company that partnered with K's to develop these new earbuds (including the bell series).


Does Final Acoustics have earbuds of their own worth looking at? Is this the same as Final Audio Design of Japan that produces the Sonorous headphones and Piano Forte and other IEMs?


----------



## seanc6441

rkw said:


> Does Final Acoustics have earbuds of their own worth looking at? Is this the same as Final Audio Design of Japan that produces the Sonorous headphones and Piano Forte and other IEMs?


That would be a question for Sir @ClieOS.


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> Last time I checked the tracking, my white 120ohm Monk Lite were on the war to Heathrow.  My 40 ohm SPC one arrived last Saturday...8 days after I ordered.  Have you checked your tracking?  We are in a race





mbwilson111 said:


> I know,  I had my quotes mixed up.  Wayne and I both ordered last Friday.  I had to get up to do it during what was the middle of the night for me.  Yes, 6am is the middle of the night for me. Happy the time was announced earlier in the week.  I did not even know about this weeks batch.



They like you a lot better than me. Mine are still "in transit at country of origin". Hopefully the tracking is just behind and they are sitting in my post box (not likely!).


----------



## chinmie

zeta555 said:


> thank you! which one is the best for female vocals? and how about the mojito?



the Mojito is great, but not for everyone. it is bright and revealing (too revealing for some). i remember the first time I tried them to listen to them, i almost immediately took them off. for instrumentals and classical though, it's the best. 

Liebesleid is really similar to mojito, but with warmer sound that it can do modern music really well. if you like female vocal, it's great for that. oh, it also have more solid build than mojito. 

i also like the Yinman 500 (fatter mids) or 600 (slightly leaner mids than the 500) for female vocals. the Liebesleid still bested them on SQ and details. 



zeta555 said:


> after looking at the reviews of liebesleid i think this is the winner. but i'm still open to suggestion!



well, the Liebesleid is one of those buds that actually gives me goosebumps.. so yes, you can't go wrong with it.


----------



## silverfishla

If you like vocals and backbeat, these Faaeal Narcissus 300ohm buds are for you.  Not that hard to drive, but if you have this setup, it sounds great.  A bit EQ'd down on the top end highs, but warm and clear.  Very thick sounding.


----------



## mbwilson111

Listening to my husband's Rose Masya.  I might have to steal it...


----------



## golov17

Saoshyant said:


> Someone mind posting a Poseidon link?  Have to admit I'm curious


https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/de...ch_type":"3_562446442447_0_164_0_3180_2999_"}


----------



## plumpjack

This is old news to you guys in the group, but new to me. My Vido's arrived a week ago and I've been in cheap earbud audio bliss ever since. This has to be more than just new gear excitement, right? These things are so good I haven't listened to my Shozy BK's since I got them...

Using the Vido's and an old iPhone 4S 64gb I can create (and just did) a rig for one of my boys (who cares about sound more than the others) for less than $60. That really makes you think...


----------



## doggiemom

silverfishla said:


> Did you notify the seller?  If an item of low cost comes damaged or broken, there are times when the seller won’t ask you to return it, just prove that it’s broken and send you a new one.  Wild Lee from VE just has you make a video of yourself cutting the item into pieces and send it to him.


In this case, I did not.  This was only the second time I have had an issue with something from an Ali seller.  The first time was when I purchased an IEM (DZAT DF-05) from AK Audio Store and when I removed them from the box, the cable pulled right out of one ear.  (Must have been a lousy solder connection. I have since heard that that model had QC issues).  The seller offered a full refund if I paid for return shipping with tracking (which would have been almost the cost of the IEM), or a discount off a future order.  That one burned, because the problem item was part of a $138 purchase.

The broken Moondrop Nameless came from NiceHCK.  It wasn't Jim's fault and he couldn't have known as the box they came in was sealed and not damaged.  I did not contact him, though in retrospect I probably should have, because he does seem to care about customer service.  I guess I was just put off by the DZAT experience.

Lee from VE is exceptionally good about taking care of problems....... unless you piss him off.   



chinmie said:


> always record the unboxing, so you have proof when making a complaint to the seller. some seller would settle with sending a new one or refund without the need to return the broken unit


Oh my goodness, that seems like a lot of work!  If I buy something expensive from an Ali seller in the future, I will definitely do that.


----------



## waynes world

doggiemom said:


> Lee from VE is exceptionally good about taking care of problems....... *unless you piss him off. *



So true! I've felt like joking about that in the past here (like you just did), but I've been scared about pissing him off LOL!
(if you are reading this Lee - we love you!)


----------



## doggiemom

waynes world said:


> So true! I've felt like joking about that in the past here (like you just did), but I've been scared about pissing him off LOL!
> (if you are reading this Lee - we love you!)


I know, that is why I put the wink there........ we all live in fear of being the object of a Facebook tirade and getting booted from the Clan!


----------



## seanc6441

plumpjack said:


> This is old news to you guys in the group, but new to me. My Vido's arrived a week ago and I've been in cheap earbud audio bliss ever since. This has to be more than just new gear excitement, right? These things are so good I haven't listened to my Shozy BK's since I got them...
> 
> Using the Vido's and an old iPhone 4S 64gb I can create (and just did) a rig for one of my boys (who cares about sound more than the others) for less than $60. That really makes you think...



STOP! You’re not allowed to like $1 earbuds more than $150 earbuds! It’s just wrong lol 

Now excuse me while I sob in the corner, broke and clutching my stardust’s...


----------



## Mimouille

seanc6441 said:


> Opinions on here might be the best answer, if you use the search function you may find some from clieos and others.
> 
> Or search google might be some there idk.


Since someone mentioned reviews I had thought there were actual reviews. I did all this already but thanks.


----------



## seanc6441

Mimouille said:


> Since someone mentioned reviews I had thought there were actual reviews. I did all this already but thanks.


Sorry mis worded, my bad!


----------



## Mimouille

seanc6441 said:


> Sorry mis worded, my bad!


----------



## chinmie

doggiemom said:


> Oh my goodness, that seems like a lot of work!  If I buy something expensive from an Ali seller in the future, I will definitely do that.



yes, it is a bit of a hassle, but that's the game that they expect us to play if we want to complain about their product, so i just play along.
in my case, i just put my phone on a tripod, and record while opening and testing if there's defect or anything else. if there's no problem i just simply delete them


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> STOP! You’re not allowed to like $1 earbuds more than $150 earbuds! It’s just wrong lol
> 
> Now excuse me while I sob in the corner, broke and clutching my stardust’s...



It happens... A lot..


----------



## silverfishla

Lee from VE is exceptionally good about taking care of problems....... unless you piss him off.   

Banned.


----------



## plumpjack

seanc6441 said:


> Guys of those of you who use smartphones (without external dac/amp) with your buds how satisfied are you with it?
> 
> I need a single source (neutral-slightly warm, flat reference sound) to use for everyday as a phone and player. LG V20 is great for full size headphones but lacking in low impendance mode under 50 ohms which basically covers all my earbuds.
> 
> Dunno what my next step should be, might look into getting a meizu pro phone from china, apparently they are very natural and detailed sounding.



I'm late to reply to this...and still a newbie so forgive this if it's a dumb reply, but have you considered a Lightning DAC for your iPhone? I use a Blucoil Aqua which draws power from the lightning port and thus is pretty small. It uses Wolfson DACs versus Cirrus Logic in the iPhone so has a slightly different sound signature. I don't have too many headphones or more power needy earbuds, but it drives my old Sennheiser 540s pretty nicely.


----------



## golov17 (Jan 27, 2018)

Mimouille said:


> Someone mentioned Liebesleid reviews. Where are these to be found?


http://blog.livedoor.jp/headphone_metal/archives/52383975.html
http://blog.livedoor.jp/headphone_metal/archives/52384349.html


----------



## ClieOS

rkw said:


> Does Final Acoustics have earbuds of their own worth looking at? Is this the same as Final Audio Design of Japan that produces the Sonorous headphones and Piano Forte and other IEMs?





seanc6441 said:


> That would be a question for Sir @ClieOS.



There is no relationship between Final Acoustics and Final Audio Design.


----------



## chinmie

@chaiyuta  i'm just browsing this thread, and i stumble upon your bluetooth cable:
 

what is it? do you have the link to buy this?


----------



## HungryPanda

Happy Happy Joy Joy, Willsound MK2 have arrived


----------



## Narayan23

doggiemom said:


> I know, that is why I put the wink there........ we all live in fear of being the object of a Facebook tirade and getting booted from the Clan!



Well I feel like doing something risky and daring today so I´ll go ahead and say in a normal world Lee from VE should live in fear of pissing his customers off not the other way round. Lee if you´re reading this and thinking of retaliation I have two words for you: SweetEars


----------



## Narayan23

Has anyone received their Monk Lite 120? Curious as to their sound quality and size.


----------



## chaiyuta

@chinmie : Cross Lampda Audio made it for personal use. He lent me try around 2 week. You might ask him info via his Facebook fanpage.


----------



## Guggga

Hungry panda : Sweet! How do your like these? Did you get the mk1 too?


----------



## HungryPanda

No this is the first Willsound I have gotten, they do sound rather good. I'm letting them burn in a bit


----------



## taygomi

Does someone have any opinion or experience with the **** PT15.
Im considering whether buy these or the headroom ms16.


----------



## DBaldock9

taygomi said:


> Does someone have any opinion or experience with the **** PT15.
> Im considering whether buy these or the headroom ms16.



At least 6 pages of Search Results for *PT15*, in this thread alone - https://www.head-fi.org/search/5982576/?q=PT15&t=post&o=date&c[thread]=441400


----------



## zeta555

anyone have other reviews of the poseidon?
except for clieos' impression, i can't find another?


----------



## hellfire8888

zeta555 said:


> anyone have other reviews of the poseidon?
> except for clieos' impression, i can't find another?


haha me looking for it too


----------



## hellfire8888

these k's earphone look so beautiful!!


----------



## groucho69

taygomi said:


> Does someone have any opinion or experience with the **** PT15.
> Im considering whether buy these or the headroom ms16.



I find the MS16 to be nothing special.


----------



## VShaft

Hello, a question to all the earbud veterans here - *what would you consider the best upgrade from the TY HI-Z 32 ohm, in the < $20 range?*

I'm very new to earbuds, and they're not my primary interest at all, but they've proven the best choice for office use. They offer just enough isolation t hear the music fine, and also hear co-workers. Additionally, earbuds are easier to put on/off frequently than IEMs or headphones. I've bought the TY HI-Z as a very cheap 1st choice to test them, and after more than half a year they've served me wonderfully and I was thinking of leveling up the game slightly.

I've set my eyes on the ***** PT15* for various reasons: price, looks, detachable cables and positive reviews regarding sound.

I'm not a bass- nor treble-head, but I don't mind a slightly V-shaped signature. Brightness also hasn't bothered me so far. If I had to choose between the lows and highs, I would prefer a slight bump in the general bass area rather then the highs. My favorite IEM is the Tin Audio T2 (unmodded), while for full-sized headphones the ATH-M30 completely satisfies me. As for my preferred music genres, I'm quite eclectic: I've got stuff from death metal to jazz in my library, and listen to it according to my mood that day.

Based on all this, would you have any suggestions? Thanks in advance, all!


----------



## mochill

hellfire8888 said:


> these k's earphone look so beautiful!!


What are those


----------



## Niqeres

wokashraf said:


> question..
> 1.can you re-cable hifiman es100?
> 2. Anyone has listen to sharp MD earbud? good cheap budget or trash?


I quite like the sharp md, and prefer them to the vidos. It has better sub bass, clearer mids and tighter, but less mid bass than the vidos. Similar (trash) build quality to the vidos tho


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 27, 2018)

plumpjack said:


> I'm late to reply to this...and still a newbie so forgive this if it's a dumb reply, but have you considered a Lightning DAC for your iPhone? I use a Blucoil Aqua which draws power from the lightning port and thus is pretty small. It uses Wolfson DACs versus Cirrus Logic in the iPhone so has a slightly different sound signature. I don't have too many headphones or more power needy earbuds, but it drives my old Sennheiser 540s pretty nicely.


Hey I did consider this but ultimately it was too inconvenient to carry my phone and a dac in my pocket if I wanted to use it as a portable and decided to go the route of audiophile smartphone instead.

Thanks for the suggestion though I’d definitely consider trying a wolfson dac or other non sabre dac’s as so far my experience with the sabre’s has been mixed.


----------



## -rowan-

DJ The Rocket said:


> ... In 2021 people who are into quaint vintage tech who want to know how the iSine compares to earbuds will be reading this thread.
> 
> There was a guy in the sale foums sometime in the last couple months or so selling an LCDi4 and some other high end planar earbuds that I'd never heard of (and couldn't afford anyway). And no I don't mean the Monoprice iFakes   Provided that wasn't you, maybe you can find something useful in those posts, for research purposes if nothing else.



I might just keep my iSine for that day 

And no, it wasn't me - I've yet to find the thread... not sure I want to hear about those other high-end planar buds yet though, not being able to afford them either...



Danneq said:


> I cannot stop praising Cypherus, another tiny Indonesia DIY earbud maker, which hits my sweet spot with all their different earbuds: from the fun and full sounding CampFred and the even more complete follow up CF2, to the mids king QFred (amazingly sweet mids), to the neutral king CAX Black, to the king of kings Red Dragon.
> 
> And that's just low impedance earbuds. There's another world when it comes to high impedance ones...



Just checked out the Cypherus website. Should I be glad there are no prices, let alone 'order' buttons? But I'm listening. The CF2 and CAX Black are on my radar now. And sweet mids did you say?

And impedance was never an impediment... just saying 



seanc6441 said:


> YES! You’re comment gave me the idea to use the VE Ex pack full foams (they look very similar in composition to these ATH foams, they must be less dense than stock Masya foams but still medium density.
> 
> Now the tonality is the right amount of brightness!!!



That's good to know. If I ever cave and get the Masya, I might find a use for all those VE full foams sitting around!



Narayan23 said:


> Has anyone received their Monk Lite 120? Curious as to their sound quality and size.



Do you mean the 120 ohm Monk Lite with the regular white cable? First impressions - I like its tuning better than the Monk Plus. The mids are where the most obvious difference lies so far imo - the 120's mids are brighter, clearer and more spacious. Switching back to the Plus, its mids are noticeably warmer, thicker and 'honkier' (to borrow a term from the iSine thread). The higher impedance shows - it's generally tighter and more controlled across all frequencies. I'd say that the 120's tuning is a step towards the Asura (but with more bass) but the Asura is more than comfortably ahead in detail and resolution imo. 

I find the Lite a little on the small side. I use the Asura without foams and they fit me well, but I need at least thin foams on the Monk Lite for them to stay in my ears when I lie down. They're apparently tuned to be used with foams anyway...


----------



## prone2phone

These monk lite (40) becoming my favorite.  Very balanced, no wrong sound. At first they fell out too easily, then  I found some rubber rings from ex pack (monks>thin foams>ring> another thin foam=bliss). Tried to do some comparison with other earbuds but everytime I put monks can't take them out. And 120 version to me has nice warmed up bass to mids but there seems to be some issues up top. Not sure why no hype for 40s, maybe everyone has already monk+?


----------



## seanc6441

prone2phone said:


> These monk lite (40) becoming my favorite.  Very balanced, no wrong sound. At first they fell out too easily, then  I found some rubber rings from ex pack (monks>thin foams>ring> another thin foam=bliss). Tried to do some comparison with other earbuds but everytime I put monks can't take them out. And 120 version to me has nice warmed up bass to mids but there seems to be some issues up top. Not sure why no hype for 40s, maybe everyone has already monk+?


People seem to be prefering the 120 version (but not everyone).


----------



## chinmie

VShaft said:


> Hello, a question to all the earbud veterans here - *what would you consider the best upgrade from the TY HI-Z 32 ohm, in the < $20 range?*
> 
> I'm very new to earbuds, and they're not my primary interest at all, but they've proven the best choice for office use. They offer just enough isolation t hear the music fine, and also hear co-workers. Additionally, earbuds are easier to put on/off frequently than IEMs or headphones. I've bought the TY HI-Z as a very cheap 1st choice to test them, and after more than half a year they've served me wonderfully and I was thinking of leveling up the game slightly.
> 
> ...



upgrade to the Ty32 in the $20 to me is the EMX500. if you can add a bit to your budget, the Willsound MK2 is quite a significant jump in Sq for me.

if you like the Tin Audio T2 (which i also recently acquired and adored), the **** PT15 is similar, but not quite on the same level on the treble quality. soind wise, in that price i would suggest the Edifier H185 better. 

the Moondrop family (VX Pro and Liebesleid) have the most similar sound to the T2, but a little bit (and quite a lot) over the price of the PT15


----------



## chinmie

Niqeres said:


> I quite like the sharp md, and prefer them to the vidos. It has better sub bass, clearer mids and tighter, but less mid bass than the vidos. Similar (trash) build quality to the vidos tho



yup I'd take the MD over the Monk any day.


----------



## Ceteru

hellfire8888 said:


> these k's earphone look so beautiful!!


Wow, those are mesmerizing.. What model are they?


----------



## chinmie

Spending my weekend with loaner from a friend: testing the Mojito, Modded Tunes, Shozy BK, Diomnes Lv2, and stock Tunes. 

What I've concluded after the session:
1.still thankful that i chose the Liebesleid
2.Still don't like the Mojito
3.the Lv2 is great, but the lows is too fatiguing to me
4.I gotta get the modded Tunes!


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 27, 2018)

chinmie said:


> Spending my weekend with loaner from a friend: testing the Mojito, Modded Tunes, Shozy BK, Diomnes Lv2, and stock Tunes.
> 
> What I've concluded after the session:
> 1.still thankful that i chose the Liebesleid
> ...


Hows that BK, looks custom. How do you feel the sound compares to the others?

You’re lucky to have audiophile friends with such nice earbuds!


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Hows that BK, looks custom. How do you feel the sound compares to the others?
> 
> You’re lucky to have audiophile friends with such nice earbuds!


the BK is stock. to me the BK have the mids too forward for my taste. the Tunes mod is so much better thatn the BK to my preference (more even across the range, more sparkle on the highs) 

yes, I'm very lucky that i can audition most of the TOTLs and finally choose what is really right for me.. really ease my wallet and time!


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> the BK is stock. to me the BK have the mids too forward for my taste. the Tunes mod is so much better thatn the BK to my preference (more even across the range, more sparkle on the highs)
> 
> yes, I'm very lucky that i can audition most of the TOTLs and finally choose what is really right for me.. really ease my wallet and time!


Oh I could swear that cable looks purple not brown, probably the lighting 

Ah yeah I figured as much the bk is quite niche in its use but I still love it’s signature for acoustic and some rock.


----------



## Blackground

chinmie said:


> the BK is stock. to me the BK have the mids too forward for my taste. the Tunes mod is so much better thatn the BK to my preference (more even across the range, more sparkle on the highs)
> 
> yes, I'm very lucky that i can audition most of the TOTLs and finally choose what is really right for me.. really ease my wallet and time!


What is this modded tunes or tunes mod I am hearing about? Is that the white pair?


----------



## chinmie

Blackground said:


> What is this modded tunes or tunes mod I am hearing about? Is that the white pair?


yes, the white one. Tunes are made in Thailand, but the modded one I'm not quite sure if it was modded by Tunes themselves or by local modder in my country


----------



## zeta555

Ceteru said:


> Wow, those are mesmerizing.. What model are they?


i think it's this one: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...DjwBn&id=557755690491&ns=1&abbucket=14#detail


----------



## ClieOS

Ok, here is some news regarding K's Poseidon pure silver edition - the 2nd batch pre-order has started and it will be very limited in number. Once it is sold out, production will stop. After that only the custom ordered pure gold edition will be available (though mind you, it costs 10 times than the silver edition).


----------



## zeta555

ClieOS said:


> Ok, here is some news regarding K's Poseidon pure silver edition - the 2nd batch pre-order has started and it will be very limited in number. Once it is sold out, production will stop. After that only the custom ordered pure gold edition will be available (though mind you, it costs 10 times than the silver edition).


so if I want to order the silver one, which option should I choose?
I used google translate and get platinum and gold option, "Package A" and "Package two"


----------



## ClieOS

Option 1.

Option 2 is for custom order.


----------



## zeta555

ClieOS said:


> Option 1.
> 
> Option 2 is for custom order.


thank you.

one more question, is there balanced options? Stock 4.4mm would be nice so i dont have to reterminate the cable


----------



## Harry_H

Is it so that taoboe does not deliver to europe ?

With Liebesleid is there place from where you can order them with balanced cable?

Just started this earbud hobby, seems that these TOTL ones are more difficult ti find (stores that are selling them)


----------



## Danneq

-rowan- said:


> Just checked out the Cypherus website. Should I be glad there are no prices, let alone 'order' buttons? But I'm listening. The CF2 and CAX Black are on my radar now. And sweet mids did you say?
> 
> And impedance was never an impediment... just saying



When I have bought Cypherus earbuds I have been in direct contact with Herry. Cypherus, like other small DIY earbud makers in Indonesia, is pretty much a one man company. Still I find it amazing that Cypherus can make earbuds of such high sound quality.
CF2 is a great all rounder. CAX Black is very neutral and accurate, but I find that it is at the expense of the "fun" part. As for the sweet mids, that's the mid centric QFred. Herry mentioned the new ZoomFred a week or so ago here on this thread. It's an updated QFred that is more balanced sounding. The mids are still in focus but you get more extension in the highs and lows.

Cypherus earbuds are pretty expensive, for example CF2 is $199 excluding shipping and CAX Black is $280 excluding shipping, but considering the high level of SQ the high price is okay.


----------



## VShaft

chinmie said:


> upgrade to the Ty32 in the $20 to me is the EMX500. if you can add a bit to your budget, the Willsound MK2 is quite a significant jump in Sq for me.
> 
> if you like the Tin Audio T2 (which i also recently acquired and adored), the **** PT15 is similar, but not quite on the same level on the treble quality. soind wise, in that price i would suggest the Edifier H185 better.
> 
> the Moondrop family (VX Pro and Liebesleid) have the most similar sound to the T2, but a little bit (and quite a lot) over the price of the PT15



Hm, I have actually considered the Edifier H185 before (as a gift), but some polarized comments put me off. From your description, I think I'd actually like the PT15 more. Naturally, I don't expect them to be on the level of the T2 considering the price difference. And yeah, the EMX500 is praised everywhere. The Willsound seem nice, but as I'm primarily an IEM guy, I don't think I'm ready just yet to make that jump from a $5 TY to a $30 Willsound, especially for office-only use. The Moondrop are also out of the question for this very reason.

I think I'll go with either the EMX500 or the PT15 for now. But who knows, I didn't even consider earbuds for any serious listening, and the cheap TY proved me very wrong. Maybe in another few months I'll get a craving for another level up, haha!

Thanks for the input, again!


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 28, 2018)

VShaft said:


> Hm, I have actually considered the Edifier H185 before (as a gift), but some polarized comments put me off. From your description, I think I'd actually like the PT15 more. Naturally, I don't expect them to be on the level of the T2 considering the price difference. And yeah, the EMX500 is praised everywhere. The Willsound seem nice, but as I'm primarily an IEM guy, I don't think I'm ready just yet to make that jump from a $5 TY to a $30 Willsound, especially for office-only use. The Moondrop are also out of the question for this very reason.
> 
> I think I'll go with either the EMX500 or the PT15 for now. But who knows, I didn't even consider earbuds for any serious listening, and the cheap TY proved me very wrong. Maybe in another few months I'll get a craving for another level up, haha!
> 
> Thanks for the input, again!


I’d grab an EMXS500, you cannot go wrong with it for $12 and it’ll give you an idea of you like the U signature in earbuds, or if you crave a more balanced sound (if you find the mids too relaxed)

The price to performance on that earbud is quite exceptional. Extended bass and highs, good detail, big soundstage. It’s ticks a lot of boxes and is the perfect gateway earbud into more premium stuff, you’ll be happy you bought it but your wallet won’t


----------



## Mimouille

ClieOS said:


> Ok, here is some news regarding K's Poseidon pure silver edition - the 2nd batch pre-order has started and it will be very limited in number. Once it is sold out, production will stop. After that only the custom ordered pure gold edition will be available (though mind you, it costs 10 times than the silver edition).


Which between this and the Liebesleid is more complimentary to the BK in your opinion (as in different).


----------



## rendyG

Hey guys, I would like to recable my emx500, but I just can´t open them. I tried hard and I even managed to bend the "lip" around the earbud 
Am I stupid here? Or are they glued?


----------



## vladstef

Radek Jandl said:


> Hey guys, I would like to recable my emx500, but I just can´t open them. I tried hard and I even managed to bend the "lip" around the earbud
> Am I stupid here? Or are they glued?



Yes, there is glue involved. I opened mine without that many issues though, but I used a pointy knife to poke into the seam and work my way around essentially breaking the glue connection, small pokes until I could pull hard enough with my finger and pop it open (don't go too deep with the knife because you might hit driver, no biggie if you do as you can only hit the metal back but still...).


----------



## ctaxxxx

chinmie said:


> 3.the Lv2 is great, but the lows is too fatiguing to me



I listen to the Diomnes Lvl2 with thin Monk+ foams. They have a pretty large bass otherwise, which is why I love them lol. (Same for Cypherus buds)

It also opens up the soundstage immensely, especially with my DX200 + AMP4. Still my favorite bud after all this time.


----------



## jrazmar

@ctaxxx what made you sell the liebesleid? planning to buy one but not so many reviews around here.


----------



## ClieOS

zeta555 said:


> thank you.
> 
> one more question, is there balanced options? Stock 4.4mm would be nice so i dont have to reterminate the cable



When you placed your order on K's, you can put a note to ask for whichever balanced plug option you want.




Harry_H said:


> Is it so that taoboe does not deliver to europe ?
> 
> With Liebesleid is there place from where you can order them with balanced cable?
> 
> Just started this earbud hobby, seems that these TOTL ones are more difficult ti find (stores that are selling them)



Taobao only ships internationally to a handful of places, and EU isn't one of them. However, you can still use a forwarder service or buying agent if you are willing to pay a bit more. If you ordered Liebesleid from Moondrop themselves then you can specify which balanced plug you want.




Mimouille said:


> Which between this and the Liebesleid is more complimentary to the BK in your opinion (as in different).



Purely on a sound signature POV,  Liebesleid is more complimentary - though it is not that clean of a choice as Liebesleid and Poseidon are kind of opposite of each other while BK is really pretty close to to the middle while still leaning very slightly to the warmer sounding Poseidon.


----------



## zeta555

ClieOS said:


> When you placed your order on K's, you can put a note to ask for whichever balanced plug option you want.


thank you for the info, I think I will bite the bullet and order one!


----------



## Harry_H

Thanks ClieOS. Managed found Moondrop page, but I guess with luck found link to Amazon pages as well (they had balanced ones), price goes a bit up via Amazon .... anyway ordering done, now waiting started


----------



## ctaxxxx

jrazmar said:


> @ctaxxx what made you sell the liebesleid? planning to buy one but not so many reviews around here.



I was narrowing down my TOTL buds at the time and I had purchased a 3.5mm version, not realizing they were selling a 2.5mm version. Been wanting to repurchase the balanced version (iBasso's balanced amps are a huge step up), but I've been hit with unexpected finances these past few months... I would like to write new impressions for it too - especially with AMP4.


----------



## Ceteru

So lately I've been curious about the earbud side of the audio world. I've had the Monks since early 2016 or so, and lately I've noticed how they've mostly turned into my easy go-to option for both out-and-about and at home.

Like most people, I used to hate earbuds with a passion, but the Monks made me do a 180. The form factor, the portability, the freedom that you get that not even IEMs have given me, all of it really impressed me initially, and even more so lately.

The idea that there are earbuds out there that can "compete" with full-size headphones (not 100%, but still) is pretty exciting. It's the same type of feeling I got when I tried my iSine 10's for the first time.

Reading a lot of the posts here have made me interested in seeing what I'm missing, and I'm trying to decide what my purchase next month is going to be. Currently it's between the Musicmaker Ting, the Shozy BK Stardust, and the Penon BS1. The VE Zen 2.0 was on my list, but after doing some in-depth reading from multiple sources, they seem like their sound signature would not be to my liking.

Can anyone give some advice on choosing between those 3 options (@seanc6441 for example since I know you've tried at least 2 of them)?


----------



## doggiemom

Danneq said:


> When I have bought Cypherus earbuds I have been in direct contact with Herry. Cypherus, like other small DIY earbud makers in Indonesia, is pretty much a one man company. Still I find it amazing that Cypherus can make earbuds of such high sound quality.
> CF2 is a great all rounder. CAX Black is very neutral and accurate, but I find that it is at the expense of the "fun" part. As for the sweet mids, that's the mid centric QFred. Herry mentioned the new ZoomFred a week or so ago here on this thread. It's an updated QFred that is more balanced sounding. The mids are still in focus but you get more extension in the highs and lows.
> 
> Cypherus earbuds are pretty expensive, for example CF2 is $199 excluding shipping and CAX Black is $280 excluding shipping, but considering the high level of SQ the high price is okay.


Agree with everything Danneq said.  I have the CampFred2 and the CAX Black.  If you are deciding between the two, consider intended use as the cable on the Black is very stiff.  Unless you are okay with earhooks, the cable makes them impractical for portable use.  I use them when sitting at my desk in my home office (meaning at my computer on the dining room table).  They are amazing though; i'd liken them to a reference headphone in terms of their neutrality and attention to detail.

The other thing I really like about Cypherus is that Herry's products look very professional.  The cases have the Cypherus name and logo, and the Blacks came in a really nice wood case with the logo burned in.  CAX or the logo also is on the splitter and the buds themselves.  A number of DIYers are charging a premium price for their work but the finished products look..... well, DIY.......   Herry's earphones look (as well as sound) like something worth paying good money for.


----------



## Ceteru

zeta555 said:


> i think it's this one: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...DjwBn&id=557755690491&ns=1&abbucket=14#detail


Yep, that's them. I wonder how they sound!


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 28, 2018)

Ceteru said:


> So lately I've been curious about the earbud side of the audio world. I've had the Monks since early 2016 or so, and lately I've noticed how they've mostly turned into my easy go-to option for both out-and-about and at home.
> 
> Like most people, I used to hate earbuds with a passion, but the Monks made me do a 180. The form factor, the portability, the freedom that you get that not even IEMs have given me, all of it really impressed me initially, and even more so lately.
> 
> ...


I like both the BK and BS1, the BS1 is the better value being cheaper but compared overall ($99-109 vs $150-160) but they have different qualities whilst shares a similar signature in some ways.

They both extend equally well, both have a slightly warmer fuller bass that’s got great texture and balance between sub and mid bass. (which may make some bass tones sound monotonous, but personally I thought the bass was very solid on both).

Mids are slightly different. BK is slightly  warmer than neutral and more natural timbre with full textured vocals and incredible richness and detail to the mids.

BS1 is more neutral, smooth and detailed. Vocals are relatively full and textured. They are not quite as natural as the bk but more natural than artificial overall and very well controlled.

Treble on the bk is again very detailed and just the right amount of brightness and sparkle with the stock or regular donut foams installed (not the heigi! too thick). Although the treble is slightly grainy/rough texture but it’s fully managed by the foams.

Bs1 has a wonderfully smooth treble of the same detail and overall a very similar level of brightness or slightly less.

Soundstage is where the BS1 commands respect over the bk. It’s medium-large, 3D with perfect imaging and a sense of layering on the depth (you can place different instruments by depth even on busier passages).


BK is more 2D with added depth... hard to explain. It has depth but it’s not as 3D in its portayal. Imaging is about on par just not quite having the depth or width to allow the same separation as the bs1 thus feeling slightly congested on busier tracks (metal music for example).

If I had to pick one for all round use it’d be the bs1, but for vocal, acoustic and most rock the BK is my preference.

I just couldn’t give away how natural and intimate the midrange is on the bk so if you enjoy that kind of music pick the BK.

If you enjoy a good mix of music pick the bs1.


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> I like both the BK and BS1, the BS1 is the better value being cheaper but compared overall ($99-109 vs $150-160) but they have different qualities whilst shares a similar signature in some ways.
> 
> They both extend equally well, both have a slightly warmer fuller bass that’s got great texture and balance between sub and mid bass. (which may make some bass tones sound monotonous, but personally I thought the bass was very solid on both).
> 
> ...


Thank you for the comparison! I think you may have helped me make a decision.

I will probably go with the BS1 for two main reasons:

1. I am rather sensitive to higher frequencies (in music and otherwise), although this translates to only slight treble sensitivity. Still, a more smoothed treble sounds more attractive than me. 

2. I listen to a lot of metal, so space is important. 

I did still have 2 questions though. Speaking to point #1 , since metal is often, well, metallic-sounding, how do instruments like hi-hats and cymbals fare with the smoother treble on the BS1?

Also, you mentioned foams on the BK, but not on the BS1; what, in your experience, are the best foams for the BS1? I've needed new foams for months now (ran through them all on my Monks) and while I know from reading that Heigis are supposed to be much thicker than the foams in the Monk Ex-Pack, I have no personal experience using them.


----------



## Danneq (Jan 28, 2018)

Ceteru said:


> Thank you for the comparison! I think you may have helped me make a decision.
> 
> I will probably go with the BS1 for two main reasons:
> 
> ...



Sorry for busting in, but while it's not a TOTL earbud and also it's a love/hate affair with people either loving it or hating it, I find Toneking/Musicmaker (Musicmaker is the old name of the company) Tomahawk to fit metal music like a glove. Nowadays I guess it costs around $40-45. Some people find the treble to be harsh on Tomahawk, but strangely enough I don't, even if I'm super sensitive to brightness. The treble is quite metallic sounding though so that's probably why Tomahawk doesn't work well with many other music genres than metal. If you get an opportunity to try them out, please do. Something like Penon BS1 or Shozy BK is superior overall, but Tomahawk performs quite wonderfully. At least to my ears and with this one specific genre of music...

By the way, Ting is a step up from Tomahawk but I always prefered Tomahawk and ended up selling my pair of Ting. Ting is more refined and distant sounding than the more "in your face" approach of Tomahawk. Still the soundstage and instrument separation on Tomahawk is pretty good.


----------



## Ceteru (Jan 28, 2018)

Danneq said:


> Sorry for busting in, but while it's not a TOTL earbud and also it's a love/hate affair with people either loving it or hating it, I find Toneking Tomahawk to fit metal music like a glove. Nowadays I guess it costs around $40-45. Some people find the treble to be harsh on Tomahawk, but strangely enough I don't, even if I'm super sensitive to brightness. The treble is quite metallic sounding though so that's probably why Tomahawk doesn't work well with many other music genres than metal. If you get an opportunity to try them out, please do. Something like Penon BS1 or Shozy BK is superior overall, but Tomahawk performs quite wonderfully. At least to my ears and with this one specific genre of music...


No worries, all advice is welcome.

You know, I was thinking about those as well. I've heard they're basically like the little cousin of the Tings, with very little tradeoffs for their price range. The metallic treble though.. that might get in the way, since I listen to a LOT of genres. I could see that getting in the way of some of my twinkly, twiddly indie math-rock for example. But it's hard to know without being able to demo them.

The main thing that had me looking elsewhere is because while earbuds are generally much more cost-efficient than full-size cans (something I'm coming to appreciate as I dig deeper into the topic), I am still unfortunately limited by my personal budget. So something more TOTL as well as mid-fi at the same time would be too much at the moment. Add into that the fact that I'm shopping for a new DAP (that I will have to save for), and you can see why I'm trying to be a bit more direct (going for a proper upgrade rather than a side- or diagonal-grade).

Now, if I could find the BS1s for cheaper than $99, I might actually consider getting the Tomahawks as well. I love getting the most bang for my buck as possible.


----------



## Danneq

I haven't heard BS1 but they seem nice going by the description. Since I spent too much on audio stuff in 2017 and also the family needs to save money for a trip to Japan this summer, I decided to skip the BS1. It was very close that I pulled the trigger on them a few weeks ago though... 

Tomahawks are definitely not main earbuds, but work great as a second pair for specific music.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 28, 2018)

Ceteru said:


> Thank you for the comparison! I think you may have helped me make a decision.
> 
> I will probably go with the BS1 for two main reasons:
> 
> ...



Danneq is right about the Tomahawk’s being tailor made to suit metallic sounds specifically metal(I’ve owned them), I bet someone has one second hand in the FS section for a good price since it was such a love hate earbud.

With the right amping and a clean source though they were really phenomenal at electric guitar/cymbals etc and whilst slightly rough on the vocals that is not an issue with metal as the vocals are shouty anyway.

I’d seriously consider putting out a feeler for the tomahawk’s in the fs section and then look at something else on the slightly more analog sounding or neutral and all round signature for your other music.

Too bad the Kinera buds are sold out that would’ve been an option to try for your second choice bud judging from the reviews. There’s also the Shozy Cygnus but it’s a little overpriced in todays very competitive priced earbuds.

if you spent $20-25 on a used tomahawk and then focused the rest of your money on a bud with a smoother balanced signature for other genres I think you’d be making the right call here.

My bs1 isn’t with me at the moment but I’ll try it out with metal as soon as I can.

But off the top of my head I think it’s not a perfect match. It has a sort of ‘heavy/powerful’ and smoother sound which may not pair with metal like a lighter more snappy sound would.


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> Danneq is right about the Tomahawk’s being tailor made to suit metallic sounds specifically metal(I’ve owned them), I bet someone has one second hand in the FS section for a good price since it was such a love hate earbud.
> 
> With the right amping and a clean source though they were really phenomenal at electric guitar/cymbals etc and whilst slightly rough on the vocals that is not an issue with metal as the vocals are shouty anyway.
> 
> ...


Haha well I kind of have my heart set on the BS1 now.. 

I listen to a lot of metal, true, but I listen to many different genres about as equally. So something suited to just metal isn't really my aim, I'm aiming for more of an all-rounder (in this case the BS1). I like the idea of having a go-to set for just about everything I would want to listen to.

The good thing about earbuds though, is they are (usually) much easier to fund than full-size headphones, so I may pick some up some Tomahawks eventually, just to have them.

About the BS1 though, with the foams; do you recommend donuts or full foams?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 28, 2018)

Ceteru said:


> Haha well I kind of have my heart set on the BS1 now..
> 
> I listen to a lot of metal, true, but I listen to many different genres about as equally. So something suited to just metal isn't really my aim, I'm aiming for more of an all-rounder (in this case the BS1). I like the idea of having a go-to set for just about everything I would want to listen to.
> 
> ...


Donuts, the regular donuts specifically ones on the less dense side. 

Like this 

 

If you hold up the foam to a light you can compare the density somewhat. I found the thin donuts to bring out the treble and allow some airy detail through. Whereas full foams and thick donuts congest the soundstage abit and make it sound a little mushy.

You cannot really go wrong right the bs1 but I’m not a metal fan so I cannot confirm at this time if they will suit the genre.


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> Donuts, the regular donuts specifically ones on the less dense side.
> 
> If you hold up the foam to a light you can compare the density somewhat. I found the thin donuts to bring out the treble and allow some airy detail through. Whereas full foams and thick donuts congest the soundstage abit and make it sound a little mushy.
> 
> You cannot really go wrong right the bs1 but I’m not a metal fan so I cannot confirm at this time if they will suit the genre.


Hmm, "less dense" sounds more like the Monk Ex-Pack foams than Heigis. Would you say that Heigi donuts lead to that mushy sound?

I understand that; I'd rather have something that CAN play metal instead of MAINLY playing metal. That said, if I don't like how the BS1 sound with metal, I'll be sure to give the Tomahawks a go.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 28, 2018)

Ceteru said:


> Hmm, "less dense" sounds more like the Monk Ex-Pack foams than Heigis. Would you say that Heigi donuts lead to that mushy sound?
> 
> I understand that; I'd rather have something that CAN play metal instead of MAINLY playing metal. That said, if I don't like how the BS1 sound with metal, I'll be sure to give the Tomahawks a go.


Not the monk thins nor the heigi’s. Monk thins were too anemic sounding and didn’t get the best seal for me, hegi’s get a great seal but killed the treble air and congested the stage.

The mushy sound I get from full foams (other than monk thins) the only earbud I use full foams on is the Rose Masya because it’s ridiculously bright in the midrange tuning and you need to find ways to darken it’s midrange or you’ll get mad at it lol!

Normally with cheap or other earbuds you get regular full and donut foams they are in between thins and heigi donuts for density and thickness.

The bs1 comes supplied with some of these and some heigi’s but personally I found a slightly more pourous foam from another earbud to sound the best. Dunno where you can buy the foams I pictured above but I recommend them for many of my earbuds.


----------



## Ceteru (Jan 28, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Not the monk thins nor the heigi’s. Monk thins were too anemic sounding and didn’t get the best seal for me, hegi’s get a great seal but killed the treble air and congested the stage.
> 
> The mushy sound I get from full foams (other than monk thins) the only earbud I use full foams on is the Rose Masya because it’s ridiculously bright in the midrange tuning and you need to find ways to darken it’s midrange or you’ll get mad at it lol!
> 
> ...


Thanks for the explanation.

I'm unsure where I can get those types of foams, but I'll keep an eye out.

EDIT: I also find it funny that in this case, the thinner the better is desired, not avoided  I just read a review on some foams from Amazon where the person rated the product 1 star and said "Very thin. Doesn’t not provide enough foam for comfort". Instead of causing me to shy away, instead it has me rubbing my chin like


----------



## chinmie

ctaxxxx said:


> I listen to the Diomnes Lvl2 with thin Monk+ foams. They have a pretty large bass otherwise, which is why I love them lol. (Same for Cypherus buds)
> 
> It also opens up the soundstage immensely, especially with my DX200 + AMP4. Still my favorite bud after all this time.



yup, i tried them with thin foams too, the problem is the treble started creeping up and piercing for me 

in fact, (like the standard diomnes) i like the Lv2 best with full foams. the bass is great, it's just it has too much emphasis on certain frequency around 200hz that makes them "woolly". an eq dip on that region might solve that for me. a more direct competition to the Lv2 would be the K's 500 or samsara which doesn't have that 200hz emphasis.

i still like the Liebesleid with full Hiegis better anyway as i prefer leaner mid-bass sound


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> I like both the BK and BS1, the BS1 is the better value being cheaper but compared overall ($99-109 vs $150-160) but they have different qualities whilst shares a similar signature in some ways.
> 
> They both extend equally well, both have a slightly warmer fuller bass that’s got great texture and balance between sub and mid bass. (which may make some bass tones sound monotonous, but personally I thought the bass was very solid on both).
> 
> ...



to your personal taste, which one do you prefer to listen to Amnesiac album?


----------



## euge

Ceteru said:


> Thanks for the explanation.
> 
> I'm unsure where I can get those types of foams, but I'll keep an eye out.
> 
> EDIT: I also find it funny that in this case, the thinner the better is desired, not avoided  I just read a review on some foams from Amazon where the person rated the product 1 star and said "Very thin. Doesn’t not provide enough foam for comfort". Instead of causing me to shy away, instead it has me rubbing my chin like



Try these? Still waiting for mine to arrive...


----------



## HungryPanda

I've been rocking away tonight with my Seahf AWK-F150C, amazing sound for the cost


----------



## chinmie (Jan 28, 2018)

Ceteru said:


> No worries, all advice is welcome.
> 
> You know, I was thinking about those as well. I've heard they're basically like the little cousin of the Tings, with very little tradeoffs for their price range. The metallic treble though.. that might get in the way, since I listen to a LOT of genres. I could see that getting in the way of some of my twinkly, twiddly indie math-rock for example. But it's hard to know without being able to demo them.
> 
> ...



what metal are you referring to? if it's 80's type speed metal, the tomahawk is a better choice than the BK. you might also consider the Boarseman MX98 for that



Ceteru said:


> Haha well I kind of have my heart set on the BS1 now..
> 
> I listen to a lot of metal, true, but I listen to many different genres about as equally. So something suited to just metal isn't really my aim, I'm aiming for more of an all-rounder (in this case the BS1). I like the idea of having a go-to set for just about everything I would want to listen to.
> 
> ...



whoops, I'm jumping ahead and not reading this. well if it's more a general buds, i think @seanc6441 has already gave the better suggestion on the BS1. if you can purchase them, also consider the Red Demun and Raven 2, they're great for rock, but still able to do other genres with ease too because of the great mids and quick bass


----------



## Ceteru

euge said:


> Try these? Still waiting for mine to arrive...


Those on first look seem rather thick, but looks can be deceiving.. you should let us know how they perform once they arrive!



chinmie said:


> what metal are you referring to? if it's 80's type speed metal, the tomahawk is a better choice than the BK. you might also consider the Boarseman MX98 for that
> 
> 
> 
> whoops, I'm jumping ahead and not reading this. well if it's more a general buds, i think @seanc6441 has already gave the better suggestion on the BS1. if you can purchase them, also consider the Red Demun and Raven 2, they're great for rock, but still able to do other genres with ease too because of the great mids and quick bass


I mostly listen to modern metal (metalcore, black metal, progressive technical metal (think Tesseract)) and prog metal (like Opeth).

I'd never heard of the two 'buds you recommended; what do they sound like in a general sense?


----------



## chinmie

Ceteru said:


> Those on first look seem rather thick, but looks can be deceiving.. you should let us know how they perform once they arrive!
> 
> 
> I mostly listen to modern metal (metalcore, black metal, progressive technical metal (think Tesseract)) and prog metal (like Opeth).
> ...



they have great mids, (essential for vocal and guitar oriented music), good extension on treble, and fast bass. they are on the same level of sq and a bit similar sound, but the demun have slightly sweeter and fuller mids while raven have slightly clearer treble.

listening to the tesseract and opeth, my immediate reaction is the **** PT15 and H185 would also sound great with them


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 28, 2018)

chinmie said:


> to your personal taste, which one do you prefer to listen to Amnesiac album?


The BS1. Most radiohead stuff needs a more open stage than the bk offers. Also I find Thom’s voice is always pretty forward (the right amount of forward) in the mastering so it doesn’t hurt to have mids that aren’t already pushed forward like on the bk not that it sounds bad on the bk, just slightly more breathing room on the bs1. Also radiohead’s stuff can be pretty trebley at times so the smooth but detailed treble is really nice here.

BS1 is great for most radiohead stuff but what all the different kinds of sounds on these albums it’s hard to have one bud perfect for it 

Although I’m not a headphone guy (just yet) I feel like to truly experience Radiohead’s albums the way they are intended you need full size cans with a good soundstage and the kind of immersive experience that can bring on good cans.

Not that earbuds can’t sound that good but it’s hard to emulate that immersion in the soundstage with earbuds I reckon.




euge said:


> Try these? Still waiting for mine to arrive...



@Ceteru Those look good. Pretty much like how mine look. The pictures can be deceiving and make them look overly thick but they look about right for the standard donut foams and the foam looks pourous enough which is good.


----------



## Ceteru

chinmie said:


> they have great mids, (essential for vocal and guitar oriented music), good extension on treble, and fast bass. they are on the same level of sq and a bit similar sound, but the demun have slightly sweeter and fuller mids while raven have slightly clearer treble.
> 
> listening to the tesseract and opeth, my immediate reaction is the **** PT15 and H185 would also sound great with them


Opeth is one band for which I definitely wouldn't mind having a dedicated listening set; which of the 4 that you've so generously recommended so far would work best lol?




seanc6441 said:


> @Ceteru Those look good. Pretty much like how mine look. The pictures can be deceiving and make them look overly thick but they look about right for the standard donut foams and the foam looks pourous enough which is good.


Oh that's great to hear; it seems like donut foams are rather hard to find apart from Heigi and VE. Not sure if I'll wait for impressions on them first, but I'll have to order a set of these.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> The BS1. Most radiohead stuff needs a more open stage than the bk offers. Also I find Thom’s voice is always pretty forward (the right amount of forward) in the mastering so it doesn’t hurt to have mids that aren’t already pushed forward like on the bk not that it sounds bad on the bk, just slightly more breathing room on the bs1. Also radiohead’s stuff can be pretty trebley at times so the smooth but detailed treble is really nice here.
> 
> BS1 is great for most radiohead stuff but what all the different kinds of sounds on these albums it’s hard to have one bud perfect for it
> 
> ...



i thought so. based on your description of BK and BS1, i think i also prefer the BS1, i just want to make sure we have the same/similar taste in sound 

i myself prefer to listen to radiohead with IEMs better... more intimate and "blacker" background noise so i can focus more on the music.with earbuds, only the Liebesleid give the same (and i would say,  even more) level of enjoyment


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> i thought so. based on your description of BK and BS1, i think i also prefer the BS1, i just want to make sure we have the same/similar taste in sound
> 
> i myself prefer to listen to radiohead with IEMs better... more intimate and "blacker" background noise so i can focus more on the music.with earbuds, only the Liebesleid give the same (and i would say,  even more) level of enjoyment



Once you get your BS1's, let me know how the BS1's, Radiohead and the Radsone Earstudio works for you!


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 28, 2018)

chinmie said:


> i thought so. based on your description of BK and BS1, i think i also prefer the BS1, i just want to make sure we have the same/similar taste in sound
> 
> i myself prefer to listen to radiohead with IEMs better... more intimate and "blacker" background noise so i can focus more on the music.with earbuds, only the Liebesleid give the same (and i would say,  even more) level of enjoyment


I agree that you need immersion and intimate sound but also a good soundstage for them. So yeah bs1 does fit the bill. Like you want Thom’s vocals to be rich and textured in your ear but the instruments to have nice space and depth because some of their work (especially AMSP) is layered in oceans of detail that you don’t even hear on first listen or background tones that only become apart with closer inspection.

In general I adore my BK’s natural sound, but the bs1 is a nice alternative with a similar overall signature but enough differences to make most genre’s work. The only thing that some may not like is it has a sort of ‘heavy/lush’ quality to its signature where some people prefer light and dry sound better

Although I will say my personal taste doesn’t revolve around one signature anymore. I love the analog sound of the bk but at times I want to hear a lighter more lean sound so the Masya is a good alternative. Sometimes I want a warmer tonality and other times neutral. It’s nice to have 2-3 different signatures that you can swap between to keep things fresh too.


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> Although I’m not a headphone guy (just yet) I feel like to truly experience Radiohead’s albums the way they are intended you need full size cans with a good soundstage and the kind of immersive experience that can bring on good cans.
> 
> Not that earbuds can’t sound that good but it’s hard to emulate that immersion in the soundstage with earbuds I reckon.
> .


Probably it is sacrilegious to say so in an earbuds thread, but this is true.  A remastered version of OK Computer (with some extra tracks) was released a year or so ago.  It sounds incredible with the Utopia.  Their music has so many layers; I didn’t realize how many little details there are that I had never picked up on before listening with my current full-size can setup.  

But I do love buds too..... “everything in its right place.”


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 28, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> Probably it is sacrilegious to say so in an earbuds thread, but this is true.  A remastered version of OK Computer (with some extra tracks) was released a year or so ago.  It sounds incredible with the Utopia.  Their music has so many layers; I didn’t realize how many little details there are that I had never picked up on before listening with my current full-size can setup.
> 
> But I do love buds too..... “everything in its right place.”


I mean earbuds like the Liebsleid/Mojito/Red Dragon probably can pick up most of this detail but I bet the immersion is unreal of the truly high end headphones like the Utopia!

As long as you aren’t dissing earbuds (which we are not) I think it’s fair game to acknowledge that some albums just pair well with certain gear 

Of course I wouldn’t know having not owned something like a Utopia but you can almost imagine and hope it lives up to your expectations haha


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Once you get your BS1's, let me know how the BS1's, Radiohead and the Radsone Earstudio works for you!



i'm not purchasing the BS1 just yet because I'm currently happy with what i have right now, but my friend is ordering them, I'll ask to borrow it and give you a review later



seanc6441 said:


> I agree that you need immersion and intimate sound but also a good soundstage for them. So yeah bs1 does fit the bill. Like you want Thom’s vocals to be rich and textured in your ear but the instruments to have nice space and depth because some of their work (especially AMSP) is layered in oceans of detail that you don’t even hear on first listen or background tones that only become apart with closer inspection.
> 
> In general I adore my BK’s natural sound, but the bs1 is a nice alternative with a similar overall signature but enough differences to make most genre’s work. The only thing that some may not like is it has a sort of ‘heavy/lush’ quality to its signature where some people prefer light and dry sound better
> 
> Although I will say my personal taste doesn’t revolve around one signature anymore. I love the analog sound of the bk but at times I want to hear a lighter more lean sound so the Masya is a good alternative. Sometimes I want a warmer tonality and other times neutral. It’s nice to have 2-3 different signatures that you can swap between to keep things fresh too.



i only have one headphone at the moment, and i still prefer listening to iems and earbuds, mainly because i like listening while lying down,and i also don't like the clamping feeling of the headphone...and i used to wear them for almost 6 hours a day on studio for recording and checking out mixes.. maybe later I'll try an open headphone to see if i like it now. 



doggiemom said:


> Probably it is sacrilegious to say so in an earbuds thread, but this is true.  A remastered version of OK Computer (with some extra tracks) was released a year or so ago.  It sounds incredible with the Utopia.  Their music has so many layers; I didn’t realize how many little details there are that I had never picked up on before listening with my current full-size can setup.
> 
> But I do love buds too..... “everything in its right place.”



i prefer the old mix version better, more chaotic goodness 
i even prefer the leaked pre-mixed Hail to the Thief version compared to the finished product
the pearl jam and oasis remix/remastered on the other hand, i like the new version by far


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 28, 2018)

chinmie said:


> i'm not purchasing the BS1 just yet because I'm currently happy with what i have right now, but my friend is ordering them, I'll ask to borrow it and give you a review later
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A moon shaped pool is probably my favourite album and when it released I was so hyped and glad to hear they still got it after all the years and we’re always improving! It’s rare for your expectations and reality to align or be outdone but it was once I listened to that album.

But they have so much quality stuff it’s hard to have just one favourite and if we’re talking  tracks alone my favourites are spread across most of thier albums except Pablo Honey lol

Dunno if you guys like MGMT but they are releasing a new album soon and have released some singles from it first which I’m loving so far.

Check out ‘hand it over’ and ‘when you die’ it’s great stuff imo.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> A moon shaped pool is probably my favourite album and when it released I was so hyped and glad to hear they still got it after all the years and we’re always improving! It’s rare for your expectations and reality to align or be outdone but it was once I listened to that album.
> 
> But they have so much quality stuff it’s hard to have just one favourite and if we’re talking  tracks alone my favourites are spread across most of thier albums except Pablo Honey lol
> 
> ...


 Kid A and Amnesiac for me. i remember the first time i bought it and listened to everything 's in the right place, it's so jarringly different from OK Computer that i almost threw the cassette away.. now it is my favorite radiohead albums ever


----------



## doggiemom

chinmie said:


> Kid A and Amnesiac for me. i remember the first time i bought it and listened to everything 's in the right place, it's so jarringly different from OK Computer that i almost threw the cassette away.. now it is my favorite radiohead albums ever


When those albums came out initially, they were just too weird (or maybe I couldn’t appreciate them on my Panasonic compact stereo system).   

After listening to the aforementioned remastered OK Computer on the Utopias, I stared exploring Radiohead again.  I had a few months of a long horrible work projuect and much of it was in the ghetto part of Long Island with a rude customer.  I got through those times by listening Kid A, specifically to “How to Disappear Completely” on repeat:  “I’m not here.  This isn’t happening.”  That album got my through that project, and it was listened to on earbuds.  (iPhone >LH Labs GeekOut V2+ or Chord Mojo to K’s Samsara.)  Their portability of earbuds allow them to be there for you when the Utopia cannot (or should not, because people with think you are rude, or they might get stolen).


----------



## chaiyuta

zeta555 said:


> thank you.
> 
> one more question, is there balanced options? Stock 4.4mm would be nice so i dont have to reterminate the cable



Refer to some pictures in customer feedback sections. I see many could get a 2.5 mm. BL plug , a 3.5 mm. BL plug or a 4.4 mm. BL plug, so I guess you might have to choose 'custom order' and add up a comment (which plug type you want) during purchase.


----------



## doggiemom (Jan 29, 2018)

I was wondering if folks would be willing to list their collections.  Some are available in profiles but some or not, and I would be curious to see what everyone has.  It might be good - we could identify others who have buds we are interested to get impressions, and maybe lead to suggestions or trades.

Totally voluntary, just thought it might be fun and potentially helpful.

Here is my list.  The Case numbers refer to where they are stored.  The VE stuff has separate storage system.  I’d really like suggestions for buds that could round out my collection; suggestions are most welcome.

2017 NICEHCK DIY Graphene    Case 6
2017 NICEHCK DIY MX500 PK1    Case 6
Abnormal Sound Duotres    Case 1
Auglamour RX-1    Case 4
Awei ES10    Case 7
Benjie BJ-49    Case 5
Blue Ever Blue 328R    Case 8
Blur 魔音    Case 6
Boarseman MX98    Case 3
Boarseman MX98s    Case 3
CAX Camp Fred 2 
Cypherus CAX Black 
DQSM Z&W Panda PK2    Case 2
DQSM Z&W420    Case 1
Earbud Thailand Black Lion    Case 6
Earbud Thailand Blue Diamond V2    Case 6
Edifier H180P    Case 4
HE 150Pro    Case 2
K's 300 Samsara    Case 1
K's 500    Case 1
K's 600    Case 1
Kanzenoka Parangtritis    Case 2
Kanzenoka Yin Yang P1.3    Case 2
Kinera    Case 1
Moondrop Nameless    Case 6
Musicmaker MrZ Tomahawk Z    Case 4
NICEHCK EB200    Case 4
Phlips SHE3800    Case 4
Qian25    Case 5
Qian39    Case 5
Qian69    Case 6
Seahf AWK-F150C    Case 4
Seahf AWK-F32    Case 4
Seahf AWK-F32T    Case 2
**** PT15    Case 7
Shozy Cygnus    Case 2
TY Hi-Z 150s    Case 4
TY Hi-Z 32ohm    Case 8
VE Asura 2.0s    Other VE
VE Monk Lite    Other VE
VE Monk+ 
VE Monk+ SPC 
Vido    Case 5
Willsound 300 Ohm    Case 6
Willsound MK1 32Ohm    Case 1
Willsound MK2 Special Edition    Case 6
**** DIY EMX500    Case 5
**** PK2S    Case 6


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 29, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> I was wondering if folks would be willing to list their collections.  Some are available in profiles but some or not, and I would be curious to see what everyone has.  It might be good - we could identify others who have buds we are interested to get impressions, and maybe lead to suggestions or trades.
> 
> Totally voluntary, just thought it might be fun and potentially helpful.
> 
> ...


Thanks! I feel much better about my spending now 

Just kidding, great collection there and great idea, I’ll list my relatively small collection soon! After I get some sleep 

It shouldn’t come as a surprise that the Monk + was my first purchase and immediately I found out what midrange was coming from apple earpods lol. The rest will follow tomorrow!


----------



## chaiyuta

@doggiemom : It looks like someone is going to settle the 'GIVEAWAY' campaign soon.


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> Thanks! I feel much better about my spending now
> 
> Just kidding, great collection there and great idea, I’ll list my relatively small collection tomorrow!



I’m glad you’re joking because the last thing I want to do is offend anyone.  I have a fair amount of gear because I work a job that pays well, my husband also has income, and we don’t have kids.  And I’m in my mid 40s, so paid off student loan debt a while ago, and now I am lucky enough to have money to spend on earbuds.  My major expenditures are stuff for the dogs, food, alcohol, books and audio stuff.


----------



## doggiemom

chaiyuta said:


> @doggiemom : It looks like someone is going to settle the 'GIVEAWAY' campaign soon.


Sorry, what is the campaign that you’re referring to?


----------



## waynes world

doggiemom said:


> When those albums came out initially, they were just too weird (or maybe I couldn’t appreciate them on my Panasonic compact stereo system).
> 
> After listening to the aforementioned remastered OK Computer on the Utopias, I stared exploring Radiohead again.  I had a few months of a long horrible work projuect and much of it was in the ghetto part of Long Island with a rude customer.  I got through those times by listening Kid A, specifically to “How to Disappear Completely” on repeat:  “I’m not here.  This isn’t happening.”  That album got my through that project, and it was listened to on earbuds.  (iPhone >LH Labs GeekOut V2+ or Chord Mojo to K’s Samsara.)  Their portability of earbuds allow them to be there for you when the Utopia cannot (or should not, because people with think you are rude, or they might get stolen).



Yeah, I had Kid A on repeat mode for 2 months solid, so I feel you


----------



## doggiemom

waynes world said:


> Yeah, I had Kid A on repeat mode for 2 months solid, so I feel you


Hope it wasn’t a tape, it might not last under those conditions.


----------



## chaiyuta

doggiemom said:


> Sorry, what is the campaign that you’re referring to?


Sorry my bad. Just kidding you as soon as I saw your collection list.


----------



## chinmie

doggiemom said:


> I was wondering if folks would be willing to list their collections.  Some are available in profiles but some or not, and I would be curious to see what everyone has.  It might be good - we could identify others who have buds we are interested to get impressions, and maybe lead to suggestions or trades.
> 
> Totally voluntary, just thought it might be fun and potentially helpful.
> 
> ...



Thank you for sharing @doggiemom
I really love it browsing through member's profile that has meticulous list of their gears. Understandably not all members can do that (some might have amassed collections that are not feasible to track anymore).

It can tell a great deal of info about their preferences on gears, what information to suggest to them or ask about, etc

I tried to list my gears, and also things that i've owned in the past. It also acts as a remembrance and self restraint ont to spend too much in the future


----------



## Danneq

That's quite some list @doggiemom !

Here's what I currently have:
ABnormal Labs Diomnes Lv2
Aiwa HP D9
Blox TM7
Cypherus CampFred
Cypherus CampFred 2
Cypherus CAX Red Dragon
Cypherus QFred
Moondrop Nameless
Music Maker MrZ Tomahawk 
NiceHCK DIY Graphene
Sennheiser OMX980
TY Hi-Z HP-32
VE Monk+
VE Zen 2
Vido
Yincrow RW-777


I've been seriously into earbuds since I first bought Yuin PK3 and then PK2 in 2009. I was a lurker on Head fi from late 2008 and that's when I picked up on Yuin PK3. Became a member in 2010.

Since then I have probably sold, traded or given away around 50 pairs of earbuds of different brands and models and now only have 16 pairs. I try to stick to 15 pairs so I'm pretty close. I mainly keep VE Zen 2 for trade in when VE Nirvana is released (in case I want to go for that). I cannot even remember all the different earbuds I've owned, but up until around 2015 I probably had owned all the different new earbuds. From 2016 the rate of release of new earbuds was so high that I decided to only buy a select few. Later I decided to only focus on $150+ TOTL and sub $20 budget earbuds.

For a few years nothing new of relevance was released, only Yuin had decent earbuds, so I got into vintage earbuds. Head fi was a great place to find info and I read all the old threads from the early 00's on vintage Sony and Aiwa earbuds. Prices were a bit higher in 2011-2012 than they had been in 2001-2002. But now prices on vintage stuff is even higher. If anyone decides to get into vintage earbuds, look at it as an investment.
Just today I saw a listing for a pair of Aiwa HP-V551 for €299 on German Ebay. That's just silly. It might be a good price for something like Aiwa D9, V9 or V99. But something like the mid tier V551 should cost something like €20-30. I got a pair of V751 (I tihnk it was) for around €10-15 and would not pay more.

Modern budget earbuds beat the old vintage Sony and Aiwa mid tier earbuds. But the top end ones are still pretty good.


----------



## theoutsider

doggiemom said:


> Here is my list.  The Case numbers refer to where they are stored.  The VE stuff has separate storage system.  I’d really like suggestions for buds that could round out my collection; suggestions are most welcome.



I wonder if you have the second most earbuds after ClieOS? 

One thing for sure, you do have many exotic DIY earbuds


----------



## Mimouille

doggiemom said:


> I was wondering if folks would be willing to list their collections.  Some are available in profiles but some or not, and I would be curious to see what everyone has.  It might be good - we could identify others who have buds we are interested to get impressions, and maybe lead to suggestions or trades.
> 
> Totally voluntary, just thought it might be fun and potentially helpful.
> 
> ...



Here is my collection :


Shozy BK


----------



## HungryPanda

My collection of earbuds:

WillSound MK2
BGVP DX3
DQSM Z&W Panda PK2s
Yinman 150 ohm
Svara-L
OurArt Ti7
Rose Masya
Toneking MrZ Tomahawk Z
NICEHCK DIY Graphene MX760
NICEHCK EB200
NICEHCK EBX
K's K600
K's K300
K's K200
**** DIY EMX500
Seahf AWK-F320S
Seahf AWK-F150C
Seahf AWK-F64
Seahf AWK-F32T
Moondrop Nameless
Ty Hi-z 32ohm Balanced 2.5mm
Vido DIY
Headroom MS16
Edifier H185
Zeceen M800
2017 New DIY PK2


----------



## theoutsider

HungryPanda said:


> My collection of earbuds:



Plenty of earbuds for a panda.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 29, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> I’m glad you’re joking because the last thing I want to do is offend anyone.  I have a fair amount of gear because I work a job that pays well, my husband also has income, and we don’t have kids.  And I’m in my mid 40s, so paid off student loan debt a while ago, and now I am lucky enough to have money to spend on earbuds.  My major expenditures are stuff for the dogs, food, alcohol, books and audio stuff.


There’s no need to excuse your collection there’s much worse things to spend money on and if it’s something you enjoy that’s your call 

Here’s my list (Some are still in my possession, some not)

VE Monk Plus
TY-32S
Toneking Tomahawk
Penon BS1 Experience
Rose Masya
Auglamour RX-1
Nicehck DIY PK2
Nicehck EMX500
Nicehck DIY Graphene
Vido
Shozy BK
Shozy Cygnus
Penon BS1 Official
Rose Masya... Again... lol

If anyone is looking for a Rose Masya we should talk first, I only have two ears so have no use for both pairs haha


----------



## seanc6441

theoutsider said:


> I wonder if you have the second most earbuds after ClieOS?
> 
> One thing for sure, you do have many exotic DIY earbuds


No there’s some on here with more I think, Maybe Golov? 

But Mr ClieOS is in a league of his own I suspect lol


----------



## theoutsider

seanc6441 said:


> No there’s some on here with more I think, Maybe Golov?
> 
> But Mr ClieOS is in a league of his own I suspect lol


I am expecting a distant second, whoever he or she is...


----------



## golov17 (Jan 29, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Maybe Golov?


100+


----------



## ClieOS

Haha, my collection is already in the first post, so I guess there won't be a need to repost them again.

On a side note, just got a notification that my BS1's package has already reached the country. Hopefully, I'll get to listen to it before the end of the week.


----------



## DBaldock9

doggiemom said:


> I was wondering if folks would be willing to list their collections.  Some are available in profiles but some or not, and I would be curious to see what everyone has.  It might be good - we could identify others who have buds we are interested to get impressions, and maybe lead to suggestions or trades.
> 
> Totally voluntary, just thought it might be fun and potentially helpful.
> 
> ...




Mine are listed in descending price order:

01.) Wong Kuan Wae "Blur 魔音" (2.5TRRS) - Earbud 300Ω, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable
02.) K's 500-Ohm v2 (2.5TRRS) - Earbud, 500Ω, 110dB/mW, 10Hz-35KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$106.65]
03.) ToneKing MusicMaker TY2 - Earbud, 16Ω, 100dB/mW, 20Hz-25KHz, Metal housing, 2x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$88.01]
04.) VE Asura 2.0 (2.5TRRS) - Earbud, 150Ω, 120dB/mW, 8Hz-25KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$88.00]
05.) TY Hi-Z HP650 (2.5mm TRRS) - Earbud, 650Ω, 120dB/mW, 12Hz-24KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$75.00, used +$1.23 (Ranko 2.5mm TRRS plug)]
06.) BHOBuds MAG-7 (2.5mm TRRS) - Earbud, 32Ω, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$67.00 + $8.00 (wire & Ranko 2.5mm TRRS plug)]
07.) OurArt Ti7 - Earbud, 32Ω, 118dB/mW, 20Hz-25KHz, Metal housing, 1x Dynamic, MMCX cable [$59.00]
08.) Svara-L - Earbud, 115Ω, 98dB/mW, 8Hz-25KHz, Metal housing, 1x Dynamic, MMCX cable [$54.00]
09.) MusicMaker ToneKing TO200 - Earbud, 200Ω, 113dB/mW, 12Hz-33KHz, Metal housing, 1x Dynamic, MMCX cable [$50.00]
10.) Daik DK-Song - Earbud, 16Ω, 108dB/mW, 20Hz-24KHz, Wood housing, 1x Dynamic, MMCX cable [$46.95]
11.) VE Monk Plus (2.5TRRS) - Earbud, 64Ω, 122dB/mW, 20Hz-20KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$30.00] (Second set Free with VE Biggie / Smalls purchase)
12.) NICEHCK DIY Graphene (2017) - Earbud, 20Ω, 108dB/mW, 15Hz-30KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$29.53]
13.) NiceHCK DIY PK2 (White) - Earbud, 16Ω, 106dB/mW, 10Hz-22KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$21.63]
14.) 1More Piston (EO303) - Earbud, 32Ω, 98dB/mW, 20Hz-24KHz, Metal housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable w/Mic [$17.79]
15.) MusicMaker ToneKing TP16 - Earbud, 32Ω, 118dB/mW, 15Hz-25KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$16.90]
16.) **** PT15 (2017) - Earbud, 32Ω, 120dB/mW, 10Hz-25KHz, Metal housing, 1x Dynamic, MMCX cable [$16.28] (2 additional sets ordered, for $7.90/ea, in Dec, 2017)
17.) Celebrat Mantis C7 - Earbud, 16Ω, 100dB/mW, 20Hz-20KHz, Metal housing, 1x Dynamic, tethered cable w/Mic [$12.99]
18.) VE Monk Plus (Coffee Gold) - Earbud, 64Ω, 120dB/mW, 20Hz-20KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered Android 3-button cable [$10.00]
19.) QianYun Qian39 (2.5mm TRRS) - Earbud, 22Ω, 106dB/mW, 40Hz-20KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$6.13 + $46.23 (wire & Ranko 2.5mm TRRS plug)]
20.) QianYun Qian39 (3.5mm TRS) - Earbud, 22Ω, 106dB/mW, 40Hz-20KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$6.13]
21.) QianYun Qian25 (2.5mm TRRS) - Earbud, 32Ω, 108dB/mW, 20Hz-20KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$5.91 + $8.00 (wire & Ranko 2.5mm TRRS plug)]
22.) QianYun Qian25 - Earbud, 32Ω, 108dB/mW, 20Hz-20KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$5.91]
23.) VE Monk Plus (Smoke) - Earbud, 64Ω, 120dB/mW, 20Hz-20KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$5.00] (purchased to use as loaner)
24.) Vido (Blue) - Earbud, 16Ω, 108dB/mW, 20Hz-20KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable w/Mic [$4.99]
25.) Vido (Blue) (2.5mm TRRS) - Earbud, 16Ω, 108dB/mW, 20Hz-20KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$3.99 + $8.00 (wire & Ranko 2.5mm TRRS Plug)]


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> Haha, my collection is already in the first post, so I guess there won't be a need to repost them again.
> 
> On a side note, just got a notification that my BS1's package has already reached the country. Hopefully, I'll get to listen to it before the end of the week.


I don’t usually need to suggest this as most earbuds perform near optimal level out of the box but I found I needed to burn them in for a handful of hours before they came alive. Just a heads up!


----------



## seanc6441

DBaldock9 said:


> Mine are listed in descending price order:
> 
> 01.) Wong Kuan Wae "Blur 魔音" (2.5TRRS) - Earbud 300Ω, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable
> 02.) K's 500-Ohm v2 (2.5TRRS) - Earbud, 500Ω, 110dB/mW, 10Hz-35KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable [$106.65]
> ...


Dear god I hope that was a copy and paste job from your bio!


----------



## Yobster69

Here’s my collection for what it’s worth. A lot more modest than some -

TY Hi-Z 32S
TY Hi-Z HP-150
VE Monk + Coffee Gold
DIY EMX500 
QianYun Qian25 - recabled
TY Hi-Z HP-650 
HCK TP1
HCK DIY PK2
FAAEAL 64ohm
**** EPK1 
NICEHCK DIY Vido - recabled
DIY MX50 - recabled 
TY Hi-Z HP-150S 
NICEHCK DIY Graphene
R4YS - original cable


----------



## seanc6441

Yobster69 said:


> Here’s my collection for what it’s worth. A lot more modest than some -
> 
> TY Hi-Z 32S
> TY Hi-Z HP-150
> ...


When I got my ty-32s as my second bud after the monk + I immediately took it out of my ear and discarded it. Really didn’t enjoy the grainy weak mids and it was then I realised I disliked V shape signatures lol.

Nice list though! Never even heard of the HCK TP1!


----------



## seanc6441

@Ceteru I have my BS1 with me now. I decided to give full foams another chance (ones that looked abit less dense than heigi fulls) and I have to say I’m impressed with them on this earbud. Between donuts and full I think it’s a matter of suiting your preferences but the bs1 isn’t hindered clarity wise from the full foams I tried so it’s definitely an option.

As for how they perform with metal, ‘OK’. I still think you should buy the tomahawk for metal and call it a day, you’re not going to get much better under $100 for metal than that earbud.

My Rose Masya performed a little better for metal but it’s still too smooth and the treble doesn’t ‘shimmer/sparkle’ enough to make metal sound engaging.


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> @Ceteru I have my BS1 with me now. I decided to give full foams another chance (ones that looked abit less dense than heigi fulls) and I have to say I’m impressed with them on this earbud. Between donuts and full I think it’s a matter of suiting your preferences but the bs1 isn’t hindered clarity wise from the full foams I tried so it’s definitely an option.
> 
> As for how they perform with metal, ‘OK’. I still think you should buy the tomahawk for metal and call it a day, you’re not going to get much better under $100 for metal than that earbud.
> 
> My Rose Masya performed a little better for metal but it’s still too smooth and the treble doesn’t ‘shimmer/sparkle’ enough to make metal sound engaging.


Hey, thanks for checking that for me  So as long as I stay away from Heigi's (or foams with similar thickness), I should be fine with either donuts or full foams; that's good to know.

Haha I have the Tomahawks in my cart on Penon now  Still wouldn't be able to buy both at the moment though..

Something I ran across recently was the deal that Penon is running on the BS1 Experience + BS1 Official for $99 total. Comparing the Tomahawks and BS1 Experience (I think I read that you own(ed) the Experience?), could the Experience stand in for the Tomahawks in a pinch if I managed to snag the Penon deal?


----------



## chinmie

here's what i currently have: 
De'Mun Red Demun (Hiegi donut foams)
DIY EMX500 (Hiegi donut foams)
Edifier H101 (Hiegi donut foams)
Edimun V3 Rhodium (thin monk-ish foams)
Kube orange (recab) (Hiegi donut foams)

Moondrop Liebesleid (Hiegi Full foams)
Puresounds 100-500 Classic (thin monk-ish  foams)
Sharp MD (Hiegi donut foams)
Svara L + Nicehck HB1 bluetooth (Hiegi full foams)
TY Hi Z 32 V2 (Hiegi Full foams)

Vido blue (VE thin foams)
Vido blue (recab) (thin monk-ish foams)
Willsound MK2 (Hiegi donut foams)
Willsound 300ohm (thin monk-ish foams)
Yinman 500 (thin monk-ish foams)

i managed to keep them at 15 right now.. i've already got rid of around 25 (listed on my profile)


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 29, 2018)

Ceteru said:


> Hey, thanks for checking that for me  So as long as I stay away from Heigi's (or foams with similar thickness), I should be fine with either donuts or full foams; that's good to know.
> 
> Haha I have the Tomahawks in my cart on Penon now  Still wouldn't be able to buy both at the moment though..
> 
> Something I ran across recently was the deal that Penon is running on the BS1 Experience + BS1 Official for $99 total. Comparing the Tomahawks and BS1 Experience (I think I read that you own(ed) the Experience?), could the Experience stand in for the Tomahawks in a pinch if I managed to snag the Penon deal?


The official is better than experience in every way but if the deal is still available take it as you get an extra earbud free.

The tomahawk sounds different than the experience overall with more metallic treble and deeper bass, experience is more suited to pop/acoustic and the soundstage is  less impressive.

Also about foams I don’t recommend one over the other for every application it’s just my personal preference for certain earbuds. Overall I use a wide variety of foams I just test them all with each new earbud to see which I prefer. I using look for the best tonality/balance of sound and clarity.

I can almost guarantee you’ll be using thick foams on the tomahawk to tame its treble.

You say your treble sensitive or don’t want any overemphasised treble? that’s the only issue I see with the tomahawks but then again if you like metal you’ll need some treble emphasis to make it sound good or atleast a very tight bass and some shimmer up top, the tomahawk does that well, if you have a good dap it’ll perform better than a low power/lower quality source because it does respond well to some more power than my iphone 6s was providing.


----------



## Ceteru (Jan 29, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> The official is better than experience in every way but if the deal is still available take it as you get an extra earbud free.
> 
> The tomahawk sounds different than the experience overall with more metallic treble and deeper bass, experience is more suited to pop/acoustic and the soundstage is  less impressive.
> 
> Also about foams I don’t recommend one over the other for every application it’s just my personal preference for certain earbuds. Overall I use a wide variety of foams I just test them all with each new earbud to see which I prefer. I using look for the best tonality/balance of sound and clarity.


Gotcha. I want to take advantage of the deal, but Penon themselves are sold out of the Experience on both of their sites 

If I can't find an Experience, I think I'll buy the BS1 now and then the Tomahawk a bit later then.

Haha I've been learning that for many earbuds, foams are as important as pads for headphones or tips for IEMs (but technically in a more versatile way, because headphone/IEMs cannot be used without pads/tips, but earbuds can be used without foams). Thankfully they're much cheaper than most pads.

EDIT: Whoops, I didn't see your edit. Yes, I tend to prefer a more tamed treble that's still detailed without being too sharp.


----------



## seanc6441

Ceteru said:


> Gotcha. I want to take advantage of the deal, but Penon themselves are sold out of the Experience on both of their sites
> 
> If I can't find an Experience, I think I'll buy the BS1 now and then the Tomahawk a bit later then.
> 
> Haha I've been learning that for many earbuds, foams are as important as pads for headphones or tips for IEMs (but technically in a more versatile way, because headphone/IEMs cannot be used without pads/tips, but earbuds can be used without foams). Thankfully they're much cheaper than most pads.


Before you pull the trigger, I never really asked but do you prefer a warm signature or more neutral? The BS1 is quite neutral.


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> Before you pull the trigger, I never really asked but do you prefer a warm signature or more neutral? The BS1 is quite neutral.


I prefer a more neutral signature, although with a bit of warmth (not overly analytical). I think the BS1 should work well, and if I need warmth I think adding some foams would help with that, correct?


----------



## Yobster69

seanc6441 said:


> When I got my ty-32s as my second bud after the monk + I immediately took it out of my ear and discarded it. Really didn’t enjoy the grainy weak mids and it was then I realised I disliked V shape signatures lol.
> 
> Nice list though! Never even heard of the HCK TP1!


I must admit that the 32’s doesn’t see sunlight much nowadays

The TP1’s aren’t available anymore, here’s a pic from AliExpress. I think they were a limited run


----------



## j4100

Waiting two months on my EBX (though it is apparently in the country). Adhi at Rholupat shows how it is done. My Raven was shipped 10 days ago and here it is (with a load of friends). Off to the burn station .


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 29, 2018)

Ceteru said:


> I prefer a more neutral signature, although with a bit of warmth (not overly analytical). I think the BS1 should work well, and if I need warmth I think adding some foams would help with that, correct?


 Sort of. You can fill out the sound with EQ and foams and you can make it sound fuller and darker but in terms of midrange tonality (like vocals and such) it’s abit tricky to change the tonality in that sense. The bs1 is on fuller side of neutral anyway.

An alternative is the Rose Masya, it’s slightly warmer, extends better, does metal slightly better. But it’s not as full sounding, slightly brighter and if your using a source that is already quite clean sounding like most sabre dacs are, you may appreciate the fullness of the bs1.

But it’s hard to choose for other people everyone has different ears ^^

The bs1 is great earbud and coming from a monk plus you should hear massive improvements so maybe that’s the one to go for.


----------



## rahmish

Here is my list for now
VE monk+ Smoke
VE monk + (Espresso edition)
VE monk + Pinoy edition 
VE monk + SPC 2.5 balanced
VE monk + Royal purple 
Monk Lite 40 Ohm gold/black
Monk Lite 120 Ohm SPC silver/white
Beyerdynamic DP100
Philips SHE 3800
Sharp RPHOE 0011
Sharp RPHOE 0014
RY4S blue braided
DIY EMXs500
Pingsovo DIY PMX500
Yinman 64
Nokia Hs-45
MX 760 Graphene new
Benjie BJ-49
**** PT-15 (new) 
Kinera earbuds
Qian 25
Qian 39
Qian 69
Faaeal 64
Faaeal 64 silver wire version
Boarseman k25
TY HI-Z 32 2.0
TY HI-Z 32 2.5 balanced
TY HI-Z 150s 2.5 balanced
Seahf AWK-F150C
Vido
Vido wh. recabled
Vido diy modded
Awei es10
Elibud Sabia v4 pro
K's 32
K's 64
K's 300
K's 300 Pro
Blue De'mun
DIY MX50
DIY MX50 recabled
DIY 300 Ohm bud
Nicehck eb200
Musicmaker Toneking TP16
DIY PK2 Furukawa line
ZT X1
Eking full
Kanzenoka Sawarna
EdiGo SE2 by Glen Synfonia
Uairekko custom 32 Ohm
Uairekko custom 150 Ohm
Willsound 32 Mk1
Willsound 32 Mk2


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> Sort of. You can fill out the sound with EQ and foams and you can make it sound fuller and darker but in terms of midrange tonality (like vocals and such) it’s abit tricky to change the tonality in that sense. The bs1 is on fuller side of neutral anyway.
> 
> An alternative is the Rose Masya, it’s slightly warmer, extends better, does metal slightly better. But it’s not as full sounding, slightly brighter and if your using a source that is already quite clean sounding like most sabre dacs are, you may appreciate the fullness of the bs1.
> 
> ...


I figured so; I think I'll be happy.

Haha I don't even have the Monk Plus, just the standard Monks; I guess that will be even more of an upgrade!


----------



## seanc6441

Ceteru said:


> I figured so; I think I'll be happy.
> 
> Haha I don't even have the Monk Plus, just the standard Monks; I guess that will be even more of an upgrade!


No! The original monks were apparently the best! There’s even some mod for them to turn them into TOTL earbuds. Diomes LV2 I think? Someone chime in here?


----------



## janawe

I've only got into earbuds last summer. Been following this thread since then, though haven't posted much so far.


List of current earbuds:

AUGLAMOUR RX-1
FAAEAL 64ohm
FENGRU DIY EMX500
JOYROOM JR-EL117
K's K300 Samsara
K's K600
Moondrop VX Pro
Mrice Baldoor E100
NICEHCK DIY Graphene
NICEHCK EB200
Qian39 
Qian69 
**** PT15
TY Hi-Z HP400SE
VE Monk Plus
YINCROW RW-777
YINMAN 150ohm 


Currently in the mail:

NICEHCK DIY PK2
TONEKING TO200
VE Monk 120ohm
Vido (been waiting since June on this one)


Hovering over the "buy it now" button on:

Moondrop Liebesleid


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> No! The original monks were apparently the best! There’s even some mod for them to turn them into TOTL earbuds. Diomes LV2 I think? Someone chime in here?


Not sure what "Diomes" is, but I wanted to check what I actually had, and unfortunately (or fortunately) I do have a Monk Plus ( had to check my order from VE Clan). Oh well, guess I won either way, eh?


----------



## the diode

Placed an order for the Penon BS1 Official Version. Looking forward to another great sounding bud.


----------



## jogawag (Jan 29, 2018)

ClieOS will confirm the Penon BS1 is really great or not after a few days.


----------



## the diode

lol. You have a good point. He does a really good ranking.


----------



## Saoshyant

j4100 said:


> Waiting two months on my EBX (though it is apparently in the country). Adhi at Rholupat shows how it is done. My Raven was shipped 10 days ago and here it is (with a load of friends). Off to the burn station .



My Raven is in the US, but not sure how much longer until they arrive.  This will be my third Crow Audio bud.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> No! The original monks were apparently the best! There’s even some mod for them to turn them into TOTL earbuds. Diomes LV2 I think? Someone chime in here?





Ceteru said:


> Not sure what "Diomes" is, but I wanted to check what I actually had, and unfortunately (or fortunately) I do have a Monk Plus ( had to check my order from VE Clan). Oh well, guess I won either way, eh?



The only way to obtain Diomnes right now is to have old monk (discontinued, rate, and ridiculously priced used) and sending them to Abnormal to be modded into Diomnes, or buy them from the used market. Both ways are pretty much slim chance.

I would suggest it's better to look for the newer TOTLs instead


----------



## Ceteru

chinmie said:


> The only way to obtain Diomnes right now is to have old monk (discontinued, rate, and ridiculously priced used) and sending them to Abnormal to be modded into Diomnes, or buy them from the used market. Both ways are pretty much slim chance.
> 
> I would suggest it's better to look for the newer TOTLs instead


Ohhh I see, it's a conversion mod. I Googled the term extensively and never found anything conclusive as to what it was. I'm sure it's cool, but like you said, I'd rather look into current TOTL solutions that are "guaranteed".


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> The only way to obtain Diomnes right now is to have old monk (discontinued, rate, and ridiculously priced used) and sending them to Abnormal to be modded into Diomnes, or buy them from the used market. Both ways are pretty much slim chance.
> 
> I would suggest it's better to look for the newer TOTLs instead



Any idea of the cost for the mod (I have the orig's)


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Any idea of the cost for the mod (I have the orig's)



You can contact the Abnormal guys directly on Facebook 
https://www.facebook.com/abnormalsoundlabs/


----------



## chinmie

Ceteru said:


> Ohhh I see, it's a conversion mod. I Googled the term extensively and never found anything conclusive as to what it was. I'm sure it's cool, but like you said, I'd rather look into current TOTL solutions that are "guaranteed".



It's a great conversion mod though, and they have consistent sound on their mods (the same goes to De'mun, Edimun, and Crow Audio). I've heard several Diomnes standards, LV2s, they all sounded consistent. That's my criteria of a great modder. No matter how good they can make one product, if they can't replicate it, then they are basically not very good at all..


----------



## Ceteru

chinmie said:


> It's a great conversion mod though, and they have consistent sound on their mods (the same goes to De'mun, Edimun, and Crow Audio). I've heard several Diomnes standards, LV2s, they all sounded consistent. That's my criteria of a great modder. No matter how good they can make one product, if they can't replicate it, then they are basically not very good at all..


Good point. Reminds me of how ZMF turned a mod into his own thing and now he's known worldwide for his skills.


----------



## doggiemom

I'm so pleased at how this has turned out:  it is fun to see everyone's collections, and now I have evidence to prove to my husband that I'm not _that_ bad!  

I love the DIY aspects of @DBaldock9's collection, and his incredibly organized and detailed list.  OCD heaven!

@Danneq and @chinmie have some really excellent intriguing stuff.  At some point (maybe soon, since I am running out of storage) I would also like to pare down my collection to things I really enjoy.  Too many times I have bought something and only listened to it briefly before putting it in storage.  Most of the time I find myself reaching for the same handful of earbuds........ maybe it is better to have a reasonable number that you truly enjoy as opposed to a big collection where 90% is neglected.  Of course, I'd have to stop buying earbuds in order to make that plan work.......  

Thanks everyone for sharing!


----------



## Saoshyant

So far by the lists I'd probably come in third as I'm not quite sure if I've broken 100.  Most likely close to 90.  Maybe I'll have to write up my list.


----------



## DBaldock9

doggiemom said:


> I'm so pleased at how this has turned out:  it is fun to see everyone's collections, and now I have evidence to prove to my husband that I'm not _that_ bad!
> 
> I love the DIY aspects of @DBaldock9's collection, and his incredibly organized and detailed list.  OCD heaven!
> 
> ...




As far as DIY goes - I've got parts here (drivers / shells / tuning "cotton" / wire / connectors) to assemble 19 pairs of earbuds (some of which will be gifts for family members).


----------



## iJay

chinmie said:


> Kid A and Amnesiac for me. i remember the first time i bought it and listened to everything 's in the right place, it's so jarringly different from OK Computer that i almost threw the cassette away.. now it is my favorite radiohead albums ever



So I’m a bit OCD when it comes to music and I bet I listed to Idioteque for a week straight, maybe more, when Kid A came out. I liked The Bends/OK Computer but not huge on Kid A, but that’s song...


----------



## DBaldock9

seanc6441 said:


> Dear god I hope that was a copy and paste job from your bio!




I actually have the whole list in a tab of the Notepad++ Text Editor on my PC.
That way, any updates are done in the editor, and then copy-n-pasted to the website.


----------



## jrazmar (Jan 29, 2018)

I have been away from HF for a quite a while and now I'm back with the earbud addiction again after reading some recent pages on this thread. The most recent purchase I made was the Vido and EMX500 and I like the latter better. Way before that was the Shozy Cygnus and Seahf 150. My daily driver since then was the Seahf. I like the Cygnus so much specially the wonderful vocals but I decided I needed more soundstage and versatility as I listen to wide array of music like alternative rock, some indie pop, ballads and dance music. The Seahf is able to give that balance across the sound spectrum regardless of genre with a nice bass quality and quantity for an earbud at the expense of a little vocal quality loss compared to Cygnus.

With the age of modern smartphones, one can have any music just by doing a search on Spotify, Google Music or similar music streaming service apps anywhere as long as internet connection is available. So I'm thinking of selling my DAP (Cowon P1) for this little convenience without a significant loss in music quality experience or a need for a larger storage capacity. If I have enough money to spend ($200-$300) without getting too exorbitant, which earbuds can be driven via a smartphone (possibly with an amplifier like the Dragonfly Red) that has the widest/deepest soundstage, clearest instrument separation, bass that is able to rumble when it's called for but not overpowering for lighter music genre, treble that extends and sparkles without being harsh to sensitive ears as mine and maybe mids to die for. I'm initially looking at the Shozy BK, Moondrop Liebesleid, the K's earphones, the Diomnes Lv2 or anything with detachable cable for optional bluetooth. Perhaps you can help me before I dive into something.


----------



## chinmie (Jan 29, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> I'm so pleased at how this has turned out:  it is fun to see everyone's collections, and now I have evidence to prove to my husband that I'm not _that_ bad!
> 
> I love the DIY aspects of @DBaldock9's collection, and his incredibly organized and detailed list.  OCD heaven!
> 
> ...



I always try to reach 5, but it's reeeally hard to let go! 

on my list, i put little asterisk on earbuds/iems that i rarely use and planning to let go.. but everytime i take them out and listen for the "supposedly" last time, i couldn't find faults or reason to let get rid of them.. so they went back to the drawer.

nowadays i'm quite content on my collection because i have specific phones for specific purposes, but sometimes there's new buds coming out that others suggested (like the yincrow @Danneq mentioned, and the BS1 by @seanc6441 ) that really interest me



iJay said:


> So I’m a bit OCD when it comes to music and I bet I listed to Idioteque for a week straight, maybe more, when Kid A came out. I liked The Bends/OK Computer but not huge on Kid A, but that’s song...



aaah..idioteque.. .that song bridges the Kid A and OK Computer for me... well, basically that song that made me gave a chance and saved that album from getting thrown out of the window


----------



## DBaldock9

jrazmar said:


> I have been away from HF for a quite a while and now I'm back with the earbud addiction again after reading some recent pages on this thread. The most recent purchase I made was the Vido and EMX500 and I like the latter better. Way before that was the Shozy Cygnus and Seahf 150. My daily driver since then was the Seahf. I like the Cygnus so much specially the wonderful vocals but I decided I needed more soundstage and versatility as I listen to wide array of music like alternative rock, some indie pop, ballads and dance music. The Seahf is able to give that balance across the sound spectrum regardless of genre with a nice bass quality and quantity for an earbud at the expense of a little vocal quality loss compared to Cygnus.
> 
> With the age of modern smartphones, one can have any music just by doing a search on Spotify, Google Music or similar music streaming service apps anywhere as long as internet connection is available. So I'm thinking of selling my DAP (Cowon P1) for this little convenience without a significant loss in music quality experience or a need for a larger storage capacity. If I have enough money to spend ($200-$300) without getting too exorbitant, which earbuds can be driven via a smartphone (possibly with an amplifier like the Dragonfly Red) that has the widest/deepest soundstage, clearest instrument separation, bass that is able to rumble when it's called for but not overpowering for lighter music genre, treble that extends and sparkles without being harsh to sensitive ears as mine and maybe mids to die for. I'm initially looking at the Shozy BK, Moondrop Liebesleid, the K's earphones, the Diomnes Lv2 or anything with detachable cable for optional bluetooth. Perhaps you can help me before I dive into something.



If you're getting a smartphone that can drive higher impedance loads, check out the MusicMaker ToneKing TO200  (200Ω, MMCX cable [$58.00]) - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...-Earbuds-With-Replaced-Cable/32828781884.html

And, then get a nice cable with a Mic & Volume Control.
I've got several of this cable - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Wit...5-se425-se535-Se846-LN004900/32811373313.html - and it can work with Androids or iPhones.
The same vendor has a better quality cable (but, I haven't tried it) - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-2...C-Cable-For-MMCX-Shure-se846/32837993395.html


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 29, 2018)

jrazmar said:


> I have been away from HF for a quite a while and now I'm back with the earbud addiction again after reading some recent pages on this thread. The most recent purchase I made was the Vido and EMX500 and I like the latter better. Way before that was the Shozy Cygnus and Seahf 150. My daily driver since then was the Seahf. I like the Cygnus so much specially the wonderful vocals but I decided I needed more soundstage and versatility as I listen to wide array of music like alternative rock, some indie pop, ballads and dance music. The Seahf is able to give that balance across the sound spectrum regardless of genre with a nice bass quality and quantity for an earbud at the expense of a little vocal quality loss compared to Cygnus.
> 
> With the age of modern smartphones, one can have any music just by doing a search on Spotify, Google Music or similar music streaming service apps anywhere as long as internet connection is available. So I'm thinking of selling my DAP (Cowon P1) for this little convenience without a significant loss in music quality experience or a need for a larger storage capacity. If I have enough money to spend ($200-$300) without getting too exorbitant, which earbuds can be driven via a smartphone (possibly with an amplifier like the Dragonfly Red) that has the widest/deepest soundstage, clearest instrument separation, bass that is able to rumble when it's called for but not overpowering for lighter music genre, treble that extends and sparkles without being harsh to sensitive ears as mine and maybe mids to die for. I'm initially looking at the Shozy BK, Moondrop Liebesleid, the K's earphones, the Diomnes Lv2 or anything with detachable cable for optional bluetooth. Perhaps you can help me before I dive into something.



Penon BS1 has the same tonality as the Cygnus. Warm full low end, neutral mids and  textured vocals, smooth highs.

Slight upgrade in detail and clarity, less forward vocals (may be a downside to you or not), bigger soundstage and better imaging. But overall it’s very like the cygnus just more mature sounding.

Shozy BK is like a perfect ‘natural’ sound. slightly warmer than the cygnus, more natural timbre and as forward vocals but more thick lush and more detailed. Extremely nice detail actually. Little more extended treble but slightly rougher but not much of an issue with the donut foams. It’s a definite upgrade on the cygnus but the soundstage is no bigger so that may be an issue for you. Imaging isa step up from the cygnus though, very nice instrument separation but the small stage can congest some busier genres like metal.

That’s the two I have most similar but an upgrade to the cygnus.


----------



## seanc6441

Just a heads up to all who bought the bs1 recently I’ve noticed a slight peak around 2.4khz (well between 2-4khz more like, but 2.4 is a common band on spotify to EQ down).

I reduced it a touch maybe 1db and the sound is more natural now and pretty much mimics the cygnus tonality as I said above, just without the forward vocals.


----------



## jrazmar (Jan 30, 2018)

Thank you @DBaldock9 @seanc6441 Since I'll be using a smartphone for my daily driver once my current DAP goes to its new home, I am leaning towards the low impedance earbuds like the Shozy BK and BS1 based on your suggestions. I had the Tomahawk and the TP16 before I sold them and those are not for my taste so I'll probably skip the Toneking series if those have the same sound signature unless the newer buds are getting improved over the previous generation ones. If the BK and BS1 are direct upgrade to Cygnus then that's great news although the same small soundstage might have me thinking twice as that might limit flexibility over different music genres. Considering the price difference of the Liebesleid, would it be wise or is it worth to take the plunge now instead of doing a sidegrade or slight upgrade to my current buds. Based on what I read so far, the Moondrop sounds towards the lean side but has impeccable clarity and very good extensions at both ends. Btw, for now my daily driver is my old Seahf LD 3.0 320 ohms which I think is now the upgraded Seahf AWK F150C based on where I was routed to in Aliexpress when I clicked my previous order. The high impedance is what's limiting the sound when using only a smartphone.

One review in Ali is saying that his Seahf is getting more playtime than his Shozy BK and that got me interested to try.


----------



## j4100

Saoshyant said:


> My Raven is in the US, but not sure how much longer until they arrive.  This will be my third Crow Audio bud.



I'm quite impressed with the Raven right out of the tin. Cable is nice and soft too.


----------



## zeta555

i just pulled the trigger on the poseidon, with brown cable and 4.4mm balanced jack. 

still searching for a deal for the liebesleid and shozy bk. at the meantime some cheap earbuds is on the way too, some vido, lite monks, and some other random under 10$ earbuds.

need to bulk buy 4.4mm jacks to reterminate all of them. and the jack is like 4-10 times the earbuds price lol


----------



## Danneq

Ceteru said:


> Haha I have the Tomahawks in my cart on Penon now  Still wouldn't be able to buy both at the moment though..
> 
> Something I ran across recently was the deal that Penon is running on the BS1 Experience + BS1 Official for $99 total. Comparing the Tomahawks and BS1 Experience (I think I read that you own(ed) the Experience?), could the Experience stand in for the Tomahawks in a pinch if I managed to snag the Penon deal?



While I was the one recommending Tomahawk for metal, I think you should go for Penon BS1 now and then at a later time perhaps try out Tomahawk. Either new or if you find a second hand pair on Head fi. Sometimes Ali express have sales and then you can find Tomahawk for around $30.

If I only had something like $100 to spend I could either choose to go for something close to TOTL level which can be used as a "jack of all trade" earbud, or get two earbuds around $50 that would complement each other. The thing is that only you know exactly which sound signature you like. I have bought and tried a lot of earbuds and then sold the ones I don't use, even earbuds that have some aspects that I love, such as the airy mids on Yuin PK2 or the detailed ATH CM7 & CM700. Other earbuds have taken their place and then I have decided to give them up so that others might enjoy them.

If I had to pick two earbuds that compliment each other it would probably be Tomahawk for metal and hard rock and Yincrow RW777 for rock and pop. RW777 is sort of thin sounding but still has good bass texture and the soundstage is quite good for a ~$50 earbud. Treble is very clear but not harsh in any way.

About Diomnes Lv2, I managed to buy one of the last pairs ABnormal made while they had stock of the original Monk. Lv2 is the premium version and it cost me $180 excluding shipping. That's a lot considering the original Monk cost $5 when it was sold, but ABnormal managed to mod it into something very special.
If you go to my profile page you will see that Diomnes Lv2 is my second overall favorite. I really love Cypherus CampFred 1 & 2 (another amazing tiny Indonesian DIY brand) and actually more often pick those than Diomnes Lv2, but overall Diomnes is just sublime with a deep soundstage with great instrument separation, deep bass and detailed highs that still do not fatigue my ears.

I would love to try out Penon BS1, but I HAVE to show some self restraint! And in some way I feel that my earbud journey has reached it's end station. At least for a while.

I still follow this thread every day, though...


----------



## ClieOS

BS-1 comes a bit earlier than I thought. No complaint of course! Now I know what all the fuss is about 






BGVP DX3
Penon BS-1 Official


----------



## Mezzi

Tayyab Pirzada said:


> yes. Cygnus is excellent mids and all purpose use. and yes it sounds better than zen 2 out of low powered source.



Do you think this:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/...anced-android-hi-fi-player-music/x/17933023#/
Hiby R6 can provide more than enough power for the Zen 2? or would it still need a dedicated amp.


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> BS-1 comes a bit earlier than I thought. No complaint of course! Now I know what all the fuss is about
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cool you like it! The imaging is something else for the price. I’m using full foams on mine now too, more natural full sound this way.

I kind of wish the sub bass extended lower but you cannot have everything at $99 I guess! It’s still adequate but not as much as the Masya for instance (that extends lowww).


----------



## seanc6441

@Danneq  makes a good point @Ceteru , if you buy the bs1 now and put in the FS section a ‘want to buy’ request for a toneking tomahawk you may get one at a good price.

Also scratch what I said about buying those donut foams, you’d be better of trying the stock foams first (the red/blue full foams) they sound really good and come with the bs1.


----------



## Ceteru

Danneq said:


> If I only had something like $100 to spend I could either choose to go for something close to TOTL level which can be used as a "jack of all trade" earbud, or get two earbuds around $50 that would complement each other.


That's what I've decided to do for now (get the BS1 for a rounded experience, and then the Tomahawk for a specific experience).



Danneq said:


> About Diomnes Lv2, I managed to buy one of the last pairs ABnormal made while they had stock of the original Monk. Lv2 is the premium version and it cost me $180 excluding shipping. That's a lot considering the original Monk cost $5 when it was sold, but ABnormal managed to mod it into something very special.
> If you go to my profile page you will see that Diomnes Lv2 is my second overall favorite. I really love Cypherus CampFred 1 & 2 (another amazing tiny Indonesian DIY brand) and actually more often pick those than Diomnes Lv2, but overall Diomnes is just sublime with a deep soundstage with great instrument separation, deep bass and detailed highs that still do not fatigue my ears.


I keep hearing good things about the Campfreds, the Campfred 2 especially. Currently my upgrade path is looking like Monk+ -> BS1 (+Tomahawk) -> BK Stardust -> ?? (maybe Campfred 2).



seanc6441 said:


> @Danneq makes a good point @Ceteru , if you buy the bs1 now and put in the FS section a ‘want to buy’ request for a toneking tomahawk you may get one at a good price.
> 
> Also scratch what I said about buying those donut foams, you’d be better of trying the stock foams first (the red/blue full foams) they sound really good and come with the bs1.


Yep, that's what I'm going to do.

I'm probably still going to buy some donuts because I think they're good to have on-hand, but I definitely plan on listening to the BS1 with stock foams first, and then going from there.


----------



## jrazmar

Where or how to checkout the Poseidon?


----------



## Saoshyant

I do not need to buy the Poseidon, I do not need to buy the Poseidon, I do not need to buy the Poseidon.  Heck, for the cost I could get a Hifiman RE800 which seems quite interesting too.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 30, 2018)

Ceteru said:


> That's what I've decided to do for now (get the BS1 for a rounded experience, and then the Tomahawk for a specific experience).
> 
> 
> I keep hearing good things about the Campfreds, the Campfred 2 especially. Currently my upgrade path is looking like Monk+ -> BS1 (+Tomahawk) -> BK Stardust -> ?? (maybe Campfred 2).
> ...


I’d probably choose the bk or campfred 2 as they are there about’s in the same league if I understood what Danneq has told me before. You may prefer one or the other but they both have an analog quality to their tuning and similar level of SQ I think.

Also the bs1 is not much if any of a downgrade on the bk, just different nuances mainly and if you want a real upgrade from the BS1 down the line you’d probably be looking at the liebsleid/Mojito/poseidon level of premium earbud.

The jump from Monk to BS1 won’t be matched though, once you get to beyond the bs1 it’s incremental quality improvements I feel.


----------



## j4100

jrazmar said:


> Where or how to checkout the Poseidon?



There was a link a couple of pages back.


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> I’d probably choose the bk or campfred 2 as they are there about’s in the same league if I understood what Danneq has told me before. You may prefer one or the other but they both have an analog quality to their tuning and similar level of SQ I think.
> 
> Also the bs1 is not much if any of a downgrade on the bk, just different nuances mainly and if you want a real upgrade from the BS1 down the line you’d probably be looking at the liebsleid/Mojito/poseidon level of premium earbud.
> 
> The jump from Monk to BS1 won’t be matched though, once you get to beyond the bs1 it’s incremental quality improvements I feel.


I really like the cable on the BK, so that might end up swaying me 

I imagine the jump will be amazing.. funnily enough, almost all my experiences with the audio world have consisted of jumps in quality.


----------



## HungryPanda

Put my Seahf AWK-F150C earbuds in last night and was amazed all over again


----------



## j4100

HungryPanda said:


> Put my Seahf AWK-F150C earbuds in last night and was amazed all over again



I have to say, if this thread hadn't ruined me financially on my quest for ever-better buds, I could have been happy with these buds alone. I have even bought a spare pair. Just in case.


----------



## fairx

HungryPanda said:


> Put my Seahf AWK-F150C earbuds in last night and was amazed all over again


How would you compare to other ty or seahf bud? Just curious.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have a few Seahf earbuds but the 150 is my favourite, it is a lot better than my Ty 32


----------



## j4100

Though I have these in my profile, here's my current collection. A good number of these have just turned up in the last few days. I have a further few still on order.

Abnormal Duotres 
 Blox B320 320Ω
Colarad C01 32Ω 
Crow Audio Raven Mk 2
Earbud Thailand Black Lion
Eli Audio Vajiac (based on Sabia V5) 
K’s Earphone K64U 64Ω 
K’s Earphone K300 Samsara 300Ω 
K’ Earphone K600 600Ω 
Kinera Limited Edition 
NiceHCK EB200 200Ω 
NiceHCK MX760 Graphene (old version) 20Ω
NiceHCK Vido 32Ω (white with mic)
QianYun Qian 39 22Ω 
QianYun Qian 69 32Ω
SeaHF AWK-F150C 150Ω
**** PT-15  32Ω
 Shozy BK Stardust 32Ω
Toneking ROS1 20Ω
VE Monk Plus 64Ω
Willsound Mk 1
Willsound Mk 2


----------



## Narayan23

HungryPanda said:


> I have a few Seahf earbuds but the 150 is my favourite, it is a lot better than my Ty 32



Speaking of favourites, I only have four buds at the moment (which makes me feel like a Lilliputian amongst the giants in this thread) the Qian 39 and 69, the Old Graphenes and the Seahf AWK F32-T. I find myself reaching for the Graphenes most of the time and the Qian 39 the rest of the time mostly for the latters´size factor. Do you guys have a bud you listen to more than any other aswell?


----------



## kurtextrem

seanc6441 said:


> Cool you like it! The imaging is something else for the price. I’m using full foams on mine now too, more natural full sound this way.


The stock ones?


----------



## HungryPanda

Narayan23 said:


> Speaking of favourites, I only have four buds at the moment (which makes me feel like a Lilliputian amongst the giants in this thread) the Qian 39 and 69, the Old Graphenes and the Seahf AWK F32-T. I find myself reaching for the Graphenes most of the time and the Qian 39 the rest of the time mostly for the latters´size factor. Do you guys have a bud you listen to more than any other aswell?


 I do not have any Qian earbuds but I much prefer the Seahf AWK F32-T over the Graphene, I just find it's sound much more enjoyable


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 30, 2018)

kurtextrem said:


> The stock ones?


Yeah the stock ones seem to give the best tonality and remove the peak I mentioned above when I was using some black ful foams.

The stock must have been choosen for the best tonality and I really like them now. When I first got the buds I went straight to donut foams but now I’m prefering the full foams for these buds. Really bring out the mids/vocals which aren’t very forward with the donuts.


----------



## Narayan23

HungryPanda said:


> I do not have any Qian earbuds but I much prefer the Seahf AWK F32-T over the Graphene, I just find it's sound much more enjoyable



No particular bud getting more ear time than the others in your collection?


----------



## yoowan

I got the Penon BS1 Official in yesterday. First impressions are very good but it's too soon to give my final vote. I was afraid the weight of the chinslider would be troublesome. It turns out that after wearing them for a few hours it didn't bother me at all. I'm probably lucky...


----------



## thebentern

I've got a Monk + that is starting to have a cable issues. I'm going to recable it, but in the meantime I have a Qian 39 on the way to.  I've been looking at more quality (and durable) upgrade options that and so far I was going to choose between the Auglamour RX-1 and the Tomahawk, but I keep seeing you guys buzz on the Penon BS1, I'm wondering if I should go that direction instead? I was also considering picking up a Headroom MS16 because it's so cheap and I've heard good things.


----------



## Ceteru

Something else I've been thinking about is shell shape; specifically, the difference between MX500 and Yuin shapes.

My Monks aren't very fatiguing for me, but my left and right ear cavities are differently shaped. The left is less prone to fatigue than the right, and I get a worse seal in my right cavity (at least without foams. Haven't had any foams to try for a while, so I would need to test once I get some more). 

What are some good TOTL buds that have the Yuin shape rather than the MX500 shape?


----------



## jogawag

Ceteru said:


> Something else I've been thinking about is shell shape; specifically, the difference between MX500 and Yuin shapes.
> 
> My Monks aren't very fatiguing for me, but my left and right ear cavities are differently shaped. The left is less prone to fatigue than the right, and I get a worse seal in my right cavity (at least without foams. Haven't had any foams to try for a while, so I would need to test once I get some more).
> 
> What are some good TOTL buds that have the Yuin shape rather than the MX500 shape?


It is Shozy BK (or Shozy Cygnus).


----------



## waynes world

Narayan23 said:


> Speaking of favourites, I only have four buds at the moment (which makes me feel like a Lilliputian amongst the giants in this thread) the Qian 39 and 69, the Old Graphenes and the Seahf AWK F32-T. I find myself reaching for the Graphenes most of the time and the Qian 39 the rest of the time mostly for the latters´size factor. Do you guys have a bud you listen to more than any other aswell?



I suppose you and I both have graphene in our ears, as I also reach for the old graphenes the most (but I also really like the new graphenes). They just seem vibrant and alive to me, and I never grow bored of them.


----------



## seanc6441

Ceteru said:


> Something else I've been thinking about is shell shape; specifically, the difference between MX500 and Yuin shapes.
> 
> My Monks aren't very fatiguing for me, but my left and right ear cavities are differently shaped. The left is less prone to fatigue than the right, and I get a worse seal in my right cavity (at least without foams. Haven't had any foams to try for a while, so I would need to test once I get some more).
> 
> What are some good TOTL buds that have the Yuin shape rather than the MX500 shape?



Shozk bk is the best yuin shell earbud most likely. The bs1 has a similar shape to monk shell but much smoother rounded edges.


----------



## HungryPanda

Narayan23 said:


> No particular bud getting more ear time than the others in your collection?


 Depends if I'm sitting at my desk or using a dap really. When at my desk I usually pop in K's 600 or Seahf AWK-F320S (or one of my collection of headphones). When mobile NICEHCK EBX, BGVP DX3, Svara-L or OurArt Ti7. If I'm commuting I usually use an iem.


----------



## DBaldock9

I've spent the day updating some procedures at work - and listening to my Daik DK-Song earbuds, connected to the XRK Pocket Class A (No Holds Barred) Amp, driven by the line output of my Onkyo DP-X1B DAP, streaming Celtic music from Google Play Music.
The PCA amp doesn't have an obvious Bass boost (which I can add, using Viper4Android on the rooted DP-X1B), but the low end of the DK-Song (which is actually better at Midrange & Treble), has a nice full & natural tone, compared to driving them directly with the DAP.


----------



## Saoshyant

DBaldock9 said:


> I've spent the day updating some procedures at work - and listening to my Daik DK-Song earbuds, connected to the XRK Pocket Class A (No Holds Barred) Amp, driven by the line output of my Onkyo DP-X1B DAP, streaming Celtic music from Google Play Music.
> The PCA amp doesn't have an obvious Bass boost (which I can add, using Viper4Android on the rooted DP-X1B), but the low end of the DK-Song (which is actually better at Midrange & Treble), has a nice full & natural tone, compared to driving them directly with the DAP.



To me, the DK-Song has a fairly preferred sound to the DK-Jin, which has a lesser bass presence, and remained relatively balanced.  For some people the DK-Jin would still come off as a little bass heavy.


----------



## j4100

DBaldock9 said:


> I've spent the day updating some procedures at work - and listening to my Daik DK-Song earbuds...



I'm really envious. I have an office job, but rarely get the chance to enjoy listening to music there. If the phone isn't going, there's someone at my desk wanting something, or I'm missing something going on. However, I did bring my K's 64U for the few times I do have the luxury. I generally just stream stuff from my bandcamp collection on my S7 phone


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> Shozk bk is the best yuin shell earbud most likely. The bs1 has a similar shape to monk shell but much smoother rounded edges.


That's good to hear. Would you say the BS1 is less fatiguing in the ear? That's really been my only complaint for my Monks fitwise, and only for my right ear.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 30, 2018)

Ceteru said:


> That's good to hear. Would you say the BS1 is less fatiguing in the ear? That's really been my only complaint for my Monks fitwise, and only for my right ear.


Than the mx500 (monk) shell? Yes. Than the shozy bk? no. The BK is the most comfortable shell design I own.


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> Than the mx500 (monk) shell? Yes. Than the shozy bk? no. The BK is the most comfortable shell design I own.


Thanks, I did mean the Mx500. 

Another bud I'm thinking about picking up after reading reviews is the TY Hi-Z HP-650. It sounds like quite the experience, especially for the form factor.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 30, 2018)

Ceteru said:


> Thanks, I did mean the Mx500.
> 
> Another bud I'm thinking about picking up after reading reviews is the TY Hi-Z HP-650. It sounds like quite the experience, especially for the form factor.


It’s a bit dated by now I’m not sure if it would still represent the best price-performance but you can ask/wait until someone who has it replies.

You should consider something like the Roae Masya coming from IEM’s if you don’t want to miss the sub bass IEM’s offer. It’s a lighter slightly warm sound.

The shozy BK is still my favourite earbud though, despite its soundstage being smallish. It’s such a joy to listen to vocals and acoustic stuff with this earbud everything sounds very realistic and has an analog charm.


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> It’s a bit dated by now I’m not sure if it would still represent the best price-performance but you can ask/wait until someone who has it replies.
> 
> You should consider something like the Roae Masya coming from IEM’s if you don’t want to miss the sub bass IEM’s offer. It’s a lighter slightly warm sound. The fit is a little unique but it’s a smaller shell than it looks.
> 
> The shozy BK is still my favourite earbud though, despite its soundstage being smallish.


Haha so many choices  Blessing and a curse I suppose.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 30, 2018)

Ceteru said:


> Haha so many choices  Blessing and a curse I suppose.


The Shozy BK is special that’s all I’ll say, but it comes at the cost of being more niche than all round. But it sounds soooo gooood in the mids, naturally slightly warm but not an overly dark sound.

The Masya has a wow effect with deep bass and extended high’s and a very smooth forward mids. But it’s a bright and warm at the same time and clear midrange. Vocals sound more like clear water than liquid gold like the shozy bk xD

Bs1 is in between, very neutral, smooth and but textured too. Kind of a jack of all trades but with a very special imaging ability and a nice medium big soundstage.


----------



## Saoshyant (Jan 30, 2018)

@Danneq I suspect Raven Mk 2 has more bass than you prefer, as I remember you feeling DK-Jin was a little on the bassy side, and this is more so.

So far a rather interesting sound.  As this is initial listening, and I don't have any volume matching equipment, I can't say much for certain.  Bass levels appear to be on par with TY HP150S.  It doesn't sound overly bright in it's sound sig as cymbals have a nice splash but nothing particularly forward in the presentation.  Vocals are reasonable close and forward, with instrument separation from them being fairly decent.  Vocals most likely aren't as front stage as Cygnus, Crow Audio Signature Edition, and similar vocals based earbuds.  Details seem solid too, as it's doing a reasonable job bringing out the less noticeable notes.  Overall balancing vs Raven Mk1 is most likely taking a slightly more fun slant than the rather balanced sounding original sig.

Keep in mind all this is exceptionally initial impressions with zero burn in.


----------



## rahmish

j4100 said:


> Though I have these in my profile, here's my current collection. A good number of these have just turned up in the last few days. I have a further few still on order.
> 
> Abnormal Duotres
> Blox B320 320Ω
> ...


How is Vajiac,what is sound sig,if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## the diode

Does anyone have a list to the updated ranking? Its been removed from the first page and I cant seem to locate it anymore. Thank you.


----------



## DBaldock9

Ceteru said:


> Thanks, I did mean the Mx500.
> 
> Another bud I'm thinking about picking up after reading reviews is the TY Hi-Z HP-650. It sounds like quite the experience, especially for the form factor.



I've got the TY Hi-Z HP650 (650Ω, 2.5mm TRRS cable) [$75.00 used] - and it's got quite a lot of Bass, but the Midrange is a bit recessed, compared to the K's 500.


----------



## Ceteru

DBaldock9 said:


> I've got the TY Hi-Z HP650 (650Ω, 2.5mm TRRS cable) [$75.00 used] - and it's got quite a lot of Bass, but the Midrange is a bit recessed, compared to the K's 500.


Is that price quote a record of what you paid, or an offer? 

But seriously: I've heard some people say that the HP-650 reminds them (sound sig-wise) of the (Sennheiser) H*D*-650s; would you say that's a viable thing to say, or no?


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> The Shozy BK is special that’s all I’ll say, but it comes at the cost of being more niche than all round. But it sounds soooo gooood in the mids, naturally slightly warm but not an overly dark sound.
> 
> The Masya has a wow effect with deep bass and extended high’s and a very smooth forward mids. But it’s a bright and warm at the same time and clear midrange. Vocals sound more like clear water than liquid gold like the shozy bk xD
> 
> Bs1 is in between, very neutral, smooth and but textured too. Kind of a jack of all trades but with a very special imaging ability and a nice medium big soundstage.



I guess I gotta get all three. Thanks a lot!


----------



## groucho69

thebentern said:


> I've got a Monk + that is starting to have a cable issues. I'm going to recable it, but in the meantime I have a Qian 39 on the way to.  I've been looking at more quality (and durable) upgrade options that and so far I was going to choose between the Auglamour RX-1 and the Tomahawk, but I keep seeing you guys buzz on the Penon BS1, I'm wondering if I should go that direction instead? I was also considering picking up a *Headroom MS16* because it's so cheap and I've heard good things.



For me, cheap yes. Upgrade no. YMMV.


----------



## Ceteru

waynes world said:


> I guess I gotta get all three. Thanks a lot!


Right? Has me looking at my wallet like


----------



## mochill

Don't look at your wallet, go get the stardust and cygnus asap!!!!!!! :O:O:O


----------



## DBaldock9

Ceteru said:


> Is that price quote a record of what you paid, or an offer?
> 
> But seriously: I've heard some people say that the HP-650 reminds them (sound sig-wise) of the (Sennheiser) H*D*-650s; would you say that's a viable thing to say, or no?



I bought my set of TY Hi-Z HP-650 earbuds used, last year for $75.

The only Hi-Fi Headphones I've got, are some Beyerdynamic DT-831 (250Ω), that I bought in ~2000, on-sale at Mars Music.


----------



## Ceteru

DBaldock9 said:


> I bought my set of TY Hi-Z HP-650 earbuds used, last year for $75.
> 
> The only Hi-Fi Headphones I've got, are some Beyerdynamic DT-831 (250Ω), that I bought in ~2000, on-sale at Mars Music.


Ah, I see.

In that case, would you say that the K's 500 is the better of the two?


----------



## DBaldock9

Ceteru said:


> Ah, I see.
> 
> In that case, would you say that the K's 500 is the better of the two?



For my listening (a lot of old Big Band music, acoustic (mostly) Renaissance Faire performers, and Traditional Celtic music), I think the K's 500 has a more balanced sound (i.e.- more Midrange & Treble).
The HP-650 does have more Bass, though - so that may appeal for some styles of music.


----------



## chinmie

Ceteru said:


> Ah, I see.
> 
> In that case, would you say that the K's 500 is the better of the two?



for me, i prefer the K's than the TY650. the TY650 is too dark sounding, mellow mids, unfocused bass


----------



## DJ The Rocket

chinmie said:


> Kid A and Amnesiac for me. i remember the first time i bought it and listened to everything 's in the right place, it's so jarringly different from OK Computer that i almost threw the cassette away.. now it is my favorite radiohead albums ever



Radiohead's music is such a challenge for any audio system, there's always so many layers of sounds overlapping. But they produced it so it sounds great regardless of how (in)capable your system is. It makes a great test to see just what your gear can do.


----------



## j4100

rahmish said:


> How is Vajiac,what is sound sig,if you don't mind me asking?



That just arrived with the Raven, Willsounds, and Duotres, so haven't listened to it yet.


----------



## golov17

Demo VE Zen Omega Edition 2-pin


----------



## jrazmar

@golov17 How is the initial impression of the sound? Also, I'm interested with the Ling which you recently acquired? Any quick impression? How is it compared to the BK?


----------



## golov17

jrazmar said:


> @golov17 How is the initial impression of the sound? Also, I'm interested with the Ling which you recently acquired? Any quick impression? How is it compared to the BK?


Only pic from VE group on FB


----------



## zeta555

golov17 said:


> Demo VE Zen Omega Edition 2-pin


any msrp?


----------



## golov17 (Jan 31, 2018)

zeta555 said:


> any msrp?


No idea..
sort of like, there will be an action of replacing the old model with Omega with a small surcharge..


----------



## Danneq (Jan 31, 2018)

I have some info about the new Cypherus ZoomFred. It is described as a "baby Red Dragon" with a big soundstage, spacious and full sounding but still with the analogue signature of Cypherus. So apparently the first aim to improve on QFred was expanded...
I'm afraid to bring Red Dragon outside so I'm very tempted (even if the ZoomFred price will be on a Rose Mojito level). Have to save money for Japan in the summer, though. Might get a pair in the autumn or perhaps a second hand pair here in Head fi...


----------



## thebentern

groucho69 said:


> For me, cheap yes. Upgrade no. YMMV.



Thanks. I was hoping I would enjoy the Qian 39 like I enjoy my Monk + but I'm not feeling the love on the sound quality side of things. The treble feels too piercing. It is comfortable though. Either I got a lemon or I'm just not a big fan. I may try some of the other stuff in that price range though like Vido since they are so darn cheap to pick up, but in the meantime, I've got to try the BS1.


----------



## tim0chan

Using the monk lite high impedance version now with the fiioq5, very good energy.
Overall I find it feels better with my g6+ tho, more power and more treble


----------



## seanc6441

thebentern said:


> Thanks. I was hoping I would enjoy the Qian 39 like I enjoy my Monk + but I'm not feeling the love on the sound quality side of things. The treble feels too piercing. It is comfortable though. Either I got a lemon or I'm just not a big fan. I may try some of the other stuff in that price range though like Vido since they are so darn cheap to pick up, but in the meantime, I've got to try the BS1.


You know we are talking about the BS1 official right? Not the $39 ‘experience version,. Just incase you got the wrong idea as you seem to be mentioning budget earbuds and then this premium (bs1 official) which is in a different price and performance class at $99.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Danneq said:


> I have some info about the new Cypherus ZoomFred. It is described as a "baby Red Dragon" with a big soundstage, spacious and full sounding but still with the analogue signature of Cypherus. So apparently the first aim to improve on QFred was expanded...
> I'm afraid to bring Red Dragon outside so I'm very tempted (even if the ZoomFred price will be on a Rose Mojito level). Have to save money for Japan in the summer, though. Might get a pair in the autumn or perhaps a second hand pair here in Head fi...



Just noticed he has it up on his website. - https://www.cypherusaudio.com/earbuds

Was told these won't be up until end of February. Need... Money... Balanced Liebesleid might need to wait even longer if it comes sooner.


----------



## Danneq

ctaxxxx said:


> Just noticed he has it up on his website. - https://www.cypherusaudio.com/earbuds
> 
> Was told these won't be up until end of February. Need... Money... Balanced Liebesleid might need to wait even longer if it comes sooner.



It would be cool if I could find a pair of the limited Japanese edition of Liebsleid in Tokyo this summer, but I'm not hoping too much.

By the way, ZoomFred will be available in 3.5mm SE and 2.5mm balanced. Dare I write the price?


----------



## seanc6441

Danneq said:


> It would be cool if I could find a pair of the limited Japanese edition of Liebsleid in Tokyo this summer, but I'm not hoping too much.
> 
> By the way, ZoomFred will be available in 3.5mm SE and 2.5mm balanced. Dare I write the price?


If you know the price it would be helpful to share, I’m interested in these 

But maybe you were being rhetorical ^^


----------



## Danneq

I got the info directly from Herry of Cypherus. Anyone can of course ask him via mail or through Facebook. Anyway, it's $249 for 3.5mm and $275 for 2.5mm balanced.


----------



## groucho69

thebentern said:


> Thanks. I was hoping I would enjoy the Qian 39 like I enjoy my Monk + but I'm not feeling the love on the sound quality side of things. The treble feels too piercing. It is comfortable though. Either I got a lemon or I'm just not a big fan. I may try some of the other stuff in that price range though like Vido since they are so darn cheap to pick up, but in the meantime, I've got to try the BS1.



That's the one I have my eye on.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 31, 2018)

Danneq said:


> I got the info directly from Herry of Cypherus. Anyone can of course ask him via mail or through Facebook. Anyway, it's $249 for 3.5mm and $275 for 2.5mm balanced.



Hmm okay priced competitively then. It would definitely be the top end of what I’m willing to spend on an earbud.

Having it named a ‘baby red dragon’ is very exciting... But I think I’ll wait for impressions first


----------



## Danneq

seanc6441 said:


> Hmm okay priced competitively then. It would definitely be the top end of what I’m willing to spend on an earbud.
> 
> Having it named a ‘baby red dragon’ is very exciting... But I think I’ll wait for impressions first



I wasn't very interested at first when it was described as a sort of improved QFred. I do think that QFred is the king of mids, but I prefer more balanced sounding earbuds. If ZoomFred it is more balanced sounding and has got a deep and wide soundstage like Red Dragon I'll definitely get it! But not until after August...


----------



## FlyingRhino

Danneq said:


> It would be cool if I could find a pair of the limited Japanese edition of Liebsleid in Tokyo this summer, but I'm not hoping too much.
> 
> By the way, ZoomFred will be available in 3.5mm SE and 2.5mm balanced. Dare I write the price?



Do you have any places in mind in Tokyo? I am visiting there in April and want to check out some stores


----------



## doggiemom (Jan 31, 2018)

ctaxxxx said:


> Just noticed he has it up on his website. - https://www.cypherusaudio.com/earbuds
> 
> Was told these won't be up until end of February. Need... Money... Balanced Liebesleid might need to wait even longer if it comes sooner.


Oh wow, the Zoomfred is so tempting......  This or Blue Darth?    (Says the person who was just talking about paring the collection).


----------



## TLDRonin

How are the VE zen lites?


I don't think I particularly need an amp, but the $100 deal for both the ra plus amp and zen lites seems a little too good to pass up


----------



## seanc6441

TLDRonin said:


> How are the VE zen lites?
> 
> 
> I don't think I particularly need an amp, but the $100 deal for both the ra plus amp and zen lites seems a little too good to pass up


what is that deal? have a link? $100 for an amp and a zen lite? That’s a very good deal!


----------



## TLDRonin

seanc6441 said:


> what is that deal? have a link? $100 for an amp and a zen lite? That’s a very good deal!


Its on their facebook page

Reading through the VE facebook, it honestly seems like a huge circlejerk. Its hard to find a "normal" review on both the zen lites and the ra plus. It seems like a really good deal, but I honestly don't think I need an amp (don't even have anything worth $100+, and already have an xduoo x3.)


----------



## theoutsider (Jan 31, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> what is that deal? have a link? $100 for an amp and a zen lite? That’s a very good deal!


https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=2

For 98usd, you get 1 RA plus + 1 Zen Lite.

I think it is out of stock for now, they ran out of knobs or something...


----------



## seanc6441

theoutsider said:


> https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=2
> 
> For 98usd, you get 1 RA plus + 1 Zen Lite.
> 
> I think it is out of stock now, they ran out of knobs or something...


Seems like a giveaway considering the zen alone is worth $149?

Thanks for the heads up anyway!


----------



## theoutsider (Feb 1, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Seems like a giveaway considering the zen alone is worth $149?
> 
> Thanks for the heads up anyway!


Ya it's their razor and blades business model.

Before long, you will come back for a more expensive amp or a Balanced Zen Ultra Omega Plus something.


----------



## Miknoboes

Hello everyone, I recently decided to get back on Headfi after not being as active since the website format was changed. Before I left, I bought a pair of the VE Monks and was extremely surprised at how much enjoyment a mere 5 dollars could get me. I still cherish the monks and tend to gravitate towards them when I don't have my headphones (which is surprising because I used to prefer IEMs prior to listening to the monks). However, as with all of us audio junkies, I started finding the flaws in the monks and started wanting more. As someone who only knows the monks, what would be a good upgrade under 30-35 dollars? 

My sonic preference lean towards a more mid-ranged vocal focused warm sound. I like sub bass extension, non boomy mid bass (doesn't have to be bass heavy just very clean and punchy when needed), focus on mids (I prefer male vocals so lower mids focused) and I like headphones that sound musically full in the lower mid ranges but not super thick. I can deal with some sibilance as my starter iems were the Vsonic GR07BEs but I prefer a sound without as much sibilance. I know what I explained is like the ideal vocal based sound sig but if there is anything vocally focused and musical while being relatively neutral everywhere else I would love to hear!

In comparison to the monks: I like the monks and their soundstage. I personally find the sub bass extension to be slightly lacking and lower mids could use a little bit more body. I also find that with the sources I own, the monks get hard to listen to at higher volumes as they get slightly sibilant. Just slightly. Finally, their comfort is not ideal and I find the housing to be slightly too large for my ears. For the most part however, everything else is good and I have been enjoying them a lot. If there is anything that comes to mind under 30 heck even 50 dollars i would be glad to listen! Thanks in advance!!!


----------



## Sanlitun

I picked up the Urbanears Sumpan at a firesale price as I need open earbuds while I am walking outside. They have a bit of a dark rolled off signature but great clarity and I find them to be better than stock EarPods as they are not as tinny. In fact I agree with this review that they are better and less distorting than Beats X.


----------



## chaiyuta

@seobon : Yuin PK2, Monk Lite 120Ohm


----------



## j4100 (Feb 1, 2018)

theoutsider said:


> https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=2
> 
> For 98usd, you get 1 RA plus + 1 Zen Lite.
> 
> I think it is out of stock for now, they ran out of knobs or something...



He got the knob delivery. There are some for sale. I couldn't resist the RA2.0bl.



seanc6441 said:


> Seems like a giveaway considering the zen alone is worth $149?



Pretty sure it was on here I read a quote from Lee saying that the Zen didn't cost much more than the Monk to make, you were paying for the sound quality.

Edit: found the post I was referring to.



> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1470#post-13649435


----------



## theoutsider

j4100 said:


> He got the knob delivery. There are some for sale. I couldn't resist the RA2.0bl.
> 
> Pretty sure it was on here I read a quote from Lee saying that the Zen didn't cost much more than the Monk to make, you were paying for the sound quality.
> 
> Edit: found the post I was referring to.


Thanks a lot for the link.


----------



## janawe

There are still a couple of the RunAbout Plus + Zen Lite bundles left, both on VE's homepage and on Aliexpress.  The standard edition for $98 is sold out, so you have to choose either the one with charger and batteries or the one with power bank. The current batch of package deals was made available yesterday.


----------



## TLDRonin

seanc6441 said:


> Seems like a giveaway considering the zen alone is worth $149?
> 
> Thanks for the heads up anyway!





j4100 said:


> He got the knob delivery. There are some for sale. I couldn't resist the RA2.0bl.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


holy crap if they cost the same to make hes making huge profit if they sell for $150


----------



## Danneq

FlyingRhino said:


> Do you have any places in mind in Tokyo? I am visiting there in April and want to check out some stores



There's a BIC Camera and Yodobashi store in Shinjuku. Apparently there's also a smaller e-earphone store there, but I haven't visited that. I might be wrong, though.
I usually go to Akihabara, mainly for the huge Yodobashi there and e-earphone.

There are some smaller audio shops in Akihabara hiding among all the computer related shops or tourist traps.

The Akihabara e-earphone store:
http://www.e-earphone.jp/shop-akb

I also like to find Book-off stores. They mostly sell used books, but you might also find used electronic devices. Last time in Japan I bought a Kenwood MediaKeg MP3 player at a Book-off. There are also stores called Hard-off which are specialized at household items and consumer electronics (but those are more rare). Most Book-off have some electronics stuff and you might be able to find something audio related.
Here's a list of stores in the Tokyo area (scroll down):
https://www.bookoff.co.jp/inbound/index.html#shopList



seobon said:


> Hello everyone, I recently decided to get back on Headfi after not being as active since the website format was changed. Before I left, I bought a pair of the VE Monks and was extremely surprised at how much enjoyment a mere 5 dollars could get me. I still cherish the monks and tend to gravitate towards them when I don't have my headphones (which is surprising because I used to prefer IEMs prior to listening to the monks). However, as with all of us audio junkies, I started finding the flaws in the monks and started wanting more. As someone who only knows the monks, what would be a good upgrade under 30-35 dollars?
> 
> My sonic preference lean towards a more mid-ranged vocal focused warm sound. I like sub bass extension, non boomy mid bass (doesn't have to be bass heavy just very clean and punchy when needed), focus on mids (I prefer male vocals so lower mids focused) and I like headphones that sound musically full in the lower mid ranges but not super thick. I can deal with some sibilance as my starter iems were the Vsonic GR07BEs but I prefer a sound without as much sibilance. I know what I explained is like the ideal vocal based sound sig but if there is anything vocally focused and musical while being relatively neutral everywhere else I would love to hear!
> 
> In comparison to the monks: I like the monks and their soundstage. I personally find the sub bass extension to be slightly lacking and lower mids could use a little bit more body. I also find that with the sources I own, the monks get hard to listen to at higher volumes as they get slightly sibilant. Just slightly. Finally, their comfort is not ideal and I find the housing to be slightly too large for my ears. For the most part however, everything else is good and I have been enjoying them a lot. If there is anything that comes to mind under 30 heck even 50 dollars i would be glad to listen! Thanks in advance!!!



Yuin PK2 is a good advice. However, sub bass isn't very extended and it usually costs around $50.

There's also NiceHCK DIY PK2 which uses the same housing as Yuin uses.
NiceHCK DIY Graphene old version has got good sub bass extension and a slight tendency to be bright (but I'm sensitive) but is also an upgrade from Monk+.
Finally Moondrop Nameless. It is quite neutral with pretty good extension at both ends for the price.

All three can be bought from Ali Express for around $25. Also all are slightly smaller than Monk+...


----------



## j4100

TLDRonin said:


> holy **** if they cost the same to make hes making huge profit if they sell for $150



Much if the hifi industry would not exist if not for the profits to be made. Just enjoy the sound


----------



## wskl

TLDRonin said:


> Its on their facebook page
> 
> Reading through the VE facebook, it honestly seems like a huge circlejerk. Its hard to find a "normal" review on both the zen lites and the ra plus. It seems like a really good deal, but I honestly don't think I need an amp (don't even have anything worth $100+, and already have an xduoo x3.)



I don't think there is any proper review yet because the Zen Lite is too new, not that many people have them in their hands, I think in this thread, only myself and golov17 have it and a few others have it on order.  I've been listening to them via the RA+ for the past week and all I can say right now is that I am really liking how they sound, no regrets on the purchase so far.  If it is of any interest to you, golov17 says it sounds just like the Zen 2 so that should give you an indication of its quality.


----------



## golov17

wskl said:


> I don't think there is any proper review yet because the Zen Lite is too new, not that many people have them in their hands, I think in this thread, only myself and golov17 have it and a few others have it on order.  I've been listening to them via the RA+ for the past week and all I can say right now is that I am really liking how they sound, no regrets on the purchase so far.  If it is of any interest to you, golov17 says it sounds just like the Zen 2 so that should give you an indication of its quality.


and there are some who appreciate lite version over regular (not me)


----------



## liquidrats

So this just arrived.. haven't used earbuds in like more than 15years... Does it fit very loose and feels like its gonna fall off?

First impression of sound is nice smooth and clean.


----------



## groucho69

liquidrats said:


> So this just arrived.. haven't used earbuds in like more than 15years... Does it fit very loose and feels like its gonna fall off?
> 
> First impression of sound is nice smooth and clean.



Are you using foams?


----------



## liquidrats

groucho69 said:


> Are you using foams?


Yup.  Stock with the ones that came with it.


----------



## groucho69

Try adding donuts.


----------



## waynes world

wskl said:


> I don't think there is any proper review yet because the Zen Lite is too new, not that many people have them in their hands, I think in this thread, only myself and golov17 have it and a few others have it on order.  I've been listening to them via the RA+ for the past week and all I can say right now is that I am really liking how they sound, no regrets on the purchase so far.  If it is of any interest to you, golov17 says it sounds just like the Zen 2 so that should give you an indication of its quality.



I'm a bit tempted by the deal because I'm interested in the RA+ (and the zen lite would be a nice bonus).

But I wouldn't use the RA+ port-ably and would only use it at my desktop, with it hopefully being so good that it would replace all 3 of the portable amps that I am currently using at my desktop! (I find that I simply don't use amps "port-ably" lol).

Which makes me wonder if it would be better to get a true dedicated desktop amp (or dac/amp like the Ifi iDSD).

So here's my OT question: do you think that the RA+ can/should be used as a dedicated desktop amp?


----------



## noknok23

liquidrats said:


> So this just arrived.. haven't used earbuds in like more than 15years... Does it fit very loose and feels like its gonna fall off?
> 
> First impression of sound is nice smooth and clean.


Took a couple of days but you'll get use to it. It's the way earbuds feel at first. It's like when you wear new glasses, feels always a bit off at first.


----------



## ClieOS

... or as I once said, the first step of enjoying any good sounding headphone is to find the best personal fit.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Looks like Liebesleid is sold out on Amazon. Not sure if it's sold anywhere else.


----------



## j4100

waynes world said:


> I'm a bit tempted by the deal because I'm interested in the RA+ (and the zen lite would be a nice bonus).
> 
> But I wouldn't use the RA+ port-ably and would only use it at my desktop, with it hopefully being so good that it would replace all 3 of the portable amps that I am currently using at my desktop! (I find that I simply don't use amps "port-ably" lol).
> 
> ...



I don't have mine yet, so cannot tell you, but I also bought it with the warp core. I have a holiday home (caravan / trailer haha - not mansion) and spend weekends there. I'm going to leave them there as a "desktop" solution for away-from-home listening, but might use the amp as a portable as well. Not sure yet. I hear it's performance on battery is excellent. It's also going to power difficult earbuds.

I suppose it depends on how much you would like to spend.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

thebentern said:


> I was hoping I would enjoy the Qian 39 like I enjoy my Monk + but I'm not feeling the love on the sound quality side of things. The treble feels too piercing



That's the Qian39 I remember


----------



## thebentern (Feb 1, 2018)

DJ The Rocket said:


> That's the Qian39 I remember


Yeah... I was not impressed at all. Gonna try some of the other monk alternative budget buds though. If nothing else, I'll have several more backups and loaners. The low price of some of these does make you wonder if quality control is bad or non-existent to the point where I get a lemon but other folks get some great ones. Everybody's ears are different on top of that though.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 1, 2018)

liquidrats said:


> So this just arrived.. haven't used earbuds in like more than 15years... Does it fit very loose and feels like its gonna fall off?
> 
> First impression of sound is nice smooth and clean.


If you’re ears are small they will fit loose because they will sit further out being fairly big shells. Also the cable is pretty heavy for an earbud. But as others have said it’s about the adjustment period. Soon you’ll get the right foams and get used to the fit. I suggest you play around with the foams to see which suits you best.

I’m currently using them with the thin cheapo aliexpress foams in a sort of doubled up way (more like one thin filter stuck inside the other to make in double thickness on the middle but keep the sides thin.

It’s like the full foams except better treble extension but the same good seal to bring out the modest sub bass extension abit more. Also to bring forward the vocals without losing clarity.

They sound quite different with different foams I found. Fit is everything with some earbuds.


----------



## liquidrats

seanc6441 said:


> If you’re ears are small they will fit loose because they will sit further out being fairly big shells. Also the cable is pretty heavy for an earbud. But as others have said it’s about the adjustment period. Soon you’ll get the right foams and get used to the fit. I suggest you play around with the foams to see which suits you best.
> 
> I’m currently using them with the thin cheapo aliexpress foams in a sort of doubled up way (more like one thin filter stuck inside the other to make in double thickness on the middle but keep the sides thin.
> 
> ...


Thanks all. I find that stock foam + donuts helps to give a fuller sound albeit it still feel loose but much better, the detail retrieval is awesome and sound stage is outta this world, but i noticed that it's bit heavy on the mid-bass somewhere about 100hz to 120hz basslines are thickkkk


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 1, 2018)

liquidrats said:


> Thanks all. I find that stock foam + donuts helps to give a fuller sound albeit it still feel loose but much better, the detail retrieval is awesome and sound stage is outta this world, but i noticed that it's bit heavy on the mid-bass somewhere about 100hz to 120hz basslines are thickkkk


Yeah the sub bass is a little rolled off and mid bass is strong, but if you apply the thin foams I suggested ($1.60 on aliexpress for100!) with doubled up on each earbud you get the full resolution and a very clean balanced sound. But the mid bass is nicely controlled.

Then I EQ’d the sub bass up a few db and wow everything was perfectly balanced and a lovely control full sound was coming from the low end that was previously abit thumpy/boomy with the donut foams.

I think the drivers in these are incredible at imaging and the detail is very good but they need help with extension on both ends and the thin foams also bring the treble out to perfect levels for my ears. Extended but smooooth.

I’ve had these earbuds a month and this is the best I’ve heard them thus far. Although the fit will be different for every ear so if it’s too small simply apply two thin foams to each for a large fit, if it’s too big (like for my ears) you apply only the centre part of a thin foam to another thin foam givin double thickness but keeping the diameter reletively thin.

If you’re using stock plus donut on an earbud with this diameter you either have preference large ears or your wearing the earbuds kind of outside the ear canal which is ok by all means wear it how you feel is best, but this may contribute to different sound experienced than mine so maybe this is the way to go for you, but if you’re feeling adventurous spend the $1.67 on the cheapo foams mentioned a few pages back.


----------



## liquidrats

seanc6441 said:


> Yeah the sub bass is a little rolled off and mid bass is strong, but if you apply the thin foams I suggested ($1.60 on aliexpress for100!) with doubled up on each earbud you get the full resolution and a very clean balanced sound. But the mid bass is nicely controlled.
> 
> Then I EQ’d the sub bass up a few db and wow everything was perfectly balanced and a lovely control full sound was coming from the low end that was previously abit thumpy/boomy with the donut foams.
> 
> ...


I tried using 2 thin foams but muffled, the ones that came with it had two types of foam thick an thin. I tried donut alone, i quite like the sound coming out but it was too loose. I think for me I'll stick to stock foam + donut. I might change as it goes since I just got this last night (it's 9AM where I am).

Thanks for the tips, I'll include those foams in next aliexpress purchase hahah


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 1, 2018)

liquidrats said:


> I tried using 2 thin foams but muffled, the ones that came with it had two types of foam thick an thin. I tried donut alone, i quite like the sound coming out but it was too loose. I think for me I'll stick to stock foam + donut. I might change as it goes since I just got this last night (it's 9AM where I am).
> 
> Thanks for the tips, I'll include those foams in next aliexpress purchase hahah


Yeah I should clarify that the ones provided while not ‘thick’ per say are the regular full foams, the ones I mentioned are much less dense and are almost see through and let 95% of the sound through compared to say 80% from full foams. Even doubling up the thin foams allow better clarity than one full foam as it will not sound veiled at all.

Donuts alone let through mid range clarity and tame the treble but I found the vocals get lost as the are pretty relaxed compared to my other mid forward buds, but with the double thin foams I found everything came alive in the mid range and treble, also the soundstage gets much airer and bigger.

If you think the soundstage is impressive on these (i’d consider it medium-big)  you should hear the rose masya or some other buds with truly out of head sound... amazing considering the size of these things.


----------



## wskl

waynes world said:


> I'm a bit tempted by the deal because I'm interested in the RA+ (and the zen lite would be a nice bonus).
> 
> But I wouldn't use the RA+ port-ably and would only use it at my desktop, with it hopefully being so good that it would replace all 3 of the portable amps that I am currently using at my desktop! (I find that I simply don't use amps "port-ably" lol).
> 
> ...



It will work well as a desktop amp since it can be powered by DC adaptor, as a portable I feel that it is a bit too bulky and heavy to carry around when stacked with a DAP.  But if you are transporting the stack to somewhere like the office, library, etc. then it can work as a portable setup.  At home, I have also been using the RA+ plugged into the wall socket with DAP to save power on the 9v battery.


----------



## seanc6441

Jazz sounds so good on these BS1’s. I don’t listen to Jazz usually but I may have to start... lol


----------



## plumpjack

seanc6441 said:


> STOP! You’re not allowed to like $1 earbuds more than $150 earbuds! It’s just wrong lol
> 
> Now excuse me while I sob in the corner, broke and clutching my stardust’s...



LOL. Sorry! It could be that new toy infatuation thing going on. I love my BK's as well and still prefer them overall, but the Vido headphones have a quality about them I just wasn't expecting for the price. Plus I'm trying to introduce my older kids to the idea that music can sound different (and way better) out of quality earbuds/headphones/speakers etc.  And with a grip of kids cost/value factors in a lot more than it used to! 

I'd love a suggestion Shozy BK-style sounding earbud with a bigger soundstage... it would be a great compliment to what I have.


----------



## liquidrats

seanc6441 said:


> Jazz sounds so good on these BS1’s. I don’t listen to Jazz usually but I may have to start... lol


Plays Hiromi Uehara's Sonicboom album. This album is a test cause it sounds very dark on some iems, while some are not.


----------



## seanc6441

liquidrats said:


> Plays Hiromi Uehara's Sonicboom album. This album is a test cause it sounds very dark on some iems, while some are not.


I know I said this twice already but I had to eq up the sub bass for the deep notes to come alive, it doesn’t effect the midbass too much and actually balances the bass more.

The saxophone sounds so full yet clean thanks to the neutral tonality and fuller low end.


----------



## liquidrats

seanc6441 said:


> I know I said this twice already but I had to eq up the sub bass for the deep notes to come alive, it doesn’t effect the midbass too much and actually balances the bass more.
> 
> The saxophone sounds so full yet clean thanks to the neutral tonality and fuller low end.


not really into EQ-ing, sorry purist needs it to be as it is I'm using M3s, putting on EQ will bring the dB -3 across the board.


----------



## seanc6441

plumpjack said:


> LOL. Sorry! It could be that new toy infatuation thing going on. I love my BK's as well and still prefer them overall, but the Vido headphones have a quality about them I just wasn't expecting for the price. Plus I'm trying to introduce my older kids to the idea that music can sound different (and way better) out of quality earbuds/headphones/speakers etc.  And with a grip of kids cost/value factors in a lot more than it used to!
> 
> I'd love a suggestion Shozy BK-style sounding earbud with a bigger soundstage... it would be a great compliment to what I have.


The BS1 is like a neutral BK (bk is slightly warmer) with very similar signature overall but with a bigger soundstage. I said a few months ago the similarities between the two are easily recognisable except a few nuances like less forward vocals than bk, slightly smoother treble and slightly less thick mid range but still keeping most of the texture found in the midrange of the bk.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 1, 2018)

liquidrats said:


> not really into EQ-ing, sorry purist needs it to be as it is I'm using M3s, putting on EQ will bring the dB -3 across the board.


I understand I don’t like it myself. You’re source probably has better sub bass extension than my iphone 6s so it may not be necessary. I EQ in very small increments but mostly it affects tonality which I hate, but with sub bass I get away with it mostly.

I’m upgrading my source soon with any luck, but for now I’m sufficing with this as my mobile source and I use spotify for convenience so the eq is very basic but these buds drive really easy so they still sound very nice regardless.


----------



## liquidrats (Feb 1, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> I understand I don’t like it myself. You’re source probably has better sub bass extension than my iphone 6s so it may not be necessary. I EQ in very small increments but mostly it affects tonality which I hate, but with sub bass I get away with it mostly.
> 
> I’m upgrading my source soon with any luck, but for now I’m sufficing with this as my mobile source and I use spotify for convenience so the eq is very basic but these buds drive really easy so they still sound very nice regardless.


cause I listen to uncompressed audio exclusively, I can't stand my phone not having enough space to put them flacs in them. Ended up with M3s which I have not regretting spending.

---
this BS1 is no bull, sounds awesome


----------



## golov17




----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 1, 2018)

liquidrats said:


> cause I listen to uncompressed audio exclusively, I can't stand my phone not having enough space to put them flacs in them. Ended up with M3s which I have not regretting spending.
> 
> ---
> this BS1 is no bull****, sounds awesome


Ah my situation is I’ve bought into the spotify ecosystem and the quality is quite good for my use and I want my phone to be my player for convenience so was looking to upgrade to a Meizu pro series phone (it’s dac is apparently excellent for a phone, compareable to LG v10/20). I tried the LG v20 but honestly it doesn’t agree with my earbuds, im sure it’s great for full size cans etc. Just not for me!


----------



## liquidrats

seanc6441 said:


> Ah my situation is I’ve bought into the spotify ecosystem and the quality is quite good for my use and I want my phone to be my player for convenience so was looking to upgrade to a Meizu pro series phone. I tried the LG v20 but honestly it doesn’t agree with my earbuds, im sure it’s great for full size cans etc. Just not for me!


Haven't tried any of the V20 or v30 series before, i used spotify at home when I was to play music on my desktop speakers or checking out new albums.


----------



## silverfishla

seanc6441 said:


> Ah my situation is I’ve bought into the spotify ecosystem and the quality is quite good for my use and I want my phone to be my player for convenience so was looking to upgrade to a Meizu pro series phone (it’s dac is apparently excellent for a phone, compareable to LG v10/20). I tried the LG v20 but honestly it doesn’t agree with my earbuds, im sure it’s great for full size cans etc. Just not for me!


Get something small and cheap that makes earbuds specificaly sound great.  Like a Zishan Z2 or Z3.  $25 and $50 respectively.  The cost of an earbud.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 1, 2018)

silverfishla said:


> Get something small and cheap that makes earbuds specificaly sound great.  Like a Zishan Z2 or Z3.  $25 and $50 respectively.  The cost of an earbud.


No spotify support 

I don’t have a library of flac or 320kbps mp3 files so i’m using spotify for everything.

IfI go down the DAP route I need to spend much more to get a good dap running android for spotify.

It makes more sense to buy a good audio smartphone than a dap unless I go all out and get a high end dap but that’s too pricey for me right now.

I was enviously reading about the Opus #2 yesterday but i know it’s very pricey unfortunately.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> No spotify support
> 
> I don’t have a library of flac or 320kbps mp3 files so i’m using spotify for everything.
> 
> ...



or you can buy usb dac like the dragonfly red, etc.. or bluetooth dac like earstudio, etc, so you can use whatever phone you like


----------



## liquidrats

that's where it all starts. It started with Fiio A3..... requires bit of control..


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> or you can buy usb dac like the dragonfly red, etc.. or bluetooth dac like earstudio, etc, so you can use whatever phone you like


Tried that route but didn’t enjoy the dongle sticking out of my pocket or just the general finicky operation.

I had to cancel my meizu pro 5 the seller on ebay never shipped it! I’ll have to find another or buy the pro 6 which is readily available.


----------



## doggiemom

theoutsider said:


> https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=2
> 
> For 98usd, you get 1 RA plus + 1 Zen Lite.
> 
> I think it is out of stock for now, they ran out of knobs or something...


I bought it, because I want to try the zen lites.  I have a bunch of portable DAC/amp combos, but look forward to mixing and matching.  (Most have a line out feature).   Uriois to hear the VE amps.


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> Tried that route but didn’t enjoy the dongle sticking out of my pocket or just the general finicky operation.
> 
> I had to cancel my meizu pro 5 the seller on ebay never shipped it! I’ll have to find another or buy the pro 6 which is readily available.


You can get bands to stack the modules and some really nice interconnects, it’s not so bad.  Or you could get a Bluewave GET to allow you to use any of your buds as Bluetooth.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

liquidrats said:


> not really into EQ-ing, sorry purist needs it to be as it is I'm using M3s, putting on EQ will bring the dB -3 across the board.



So as a purist, you insist on hearing the limitations of your equipment? As a purist, I prefer hearing it the way I think the artist would have wanted it heard  

Not all headphones respond well to eq'ing, I describe the ones that do as having lots of "tonal headroom."


----------



## liquidrats

DJ The Rocket said:


> So as a purist, you insist on hearing the limitations of your equipment? As a purist, I prefer hearing it the way I think the artist would have wanted it heard
> 
> Not all headphones respond well to eq'ing, I describe the ones that do as having lots of "tonal headroom."


I guess we're looking at two different point, artist pov and hardware pov. Purist in the way of the sound sig of the buds as how penon intended it to sound like. For me I will never really know how the artist intend it to sound like until we listen to the sound engineer in the studio room mastering the track, some of them run on a very old speakers that they only know the sound sig from it.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

silverfishla said:


> Get something small and cheap that makes earbuds specificaly sound great.  Like a Zishan Z2 or Z3.  $25 and $50 respectively.  The cost of an earbud.



This is interesting. What about the Zishans works especially well with earbuds? All I can think of is very low output impedance (<1) and great sound quality in general.

I'd recommend an iRiver T10, if you can find one with 2+GB of memory (or modify one). It's my go-to player; the sound quality is up there with literally anything, it's just a hair behind the most transparent standalone desktop DACs, and I don't think they make an earbud THAT revealing. It also runs off a single AA battery, which is a plus or a minus depending on the situation, but it's invaluable for the situations where that's a good thing (never run out of juice on international flights, for instance).


----------



## waynes world

DJ The Rocket said:


> This is interesting. What about the Zishans works especially well with earbuds? All I can think of is very low output impedance (<1) and great sound quality in general.
> 
> I'd recommend an iRiver T10, if you can find one with 2+GB of memory (or modify one). It's my go-to player; the sound quality is up there with literally anything, it's just a hair behind the most transparent standalone desktop DACs, and I don't think they make an earbud THAT revealing. It also runs off a single AA battery, which is a plus or a minus depending on the situation, but it's invaluable for the situations where that's a good thing (never run out of juice on international flights, for instance).



2+GB?


----------



## waynes world

doggiemom said:


> Or you could get a Bluewave GET to allow you to use any of your buds as Bluetooth.



That's what I keep telling him


----------



## DJ The Rocket

liquidrats said:


> I guess we're looking at two different point, artist pov and hardware pov. Purist in the way of the sound sig of the buds as how penon intended it to sound like. For me I will never really know how the artist intend it to sound like until we listen to the sound engineer in the studio room mastering the track, some of them run on a very old speakers that they only know the sound sig from it.



Different POVs? You're not kidding! And I'm not saying mine is any better than yours, I'm just explaining what I think. I actually appreciate hearing about different viewpoints, because I never would have thought of it your way on my own.

I don't think Penon "wanted" to present music in exactly the way the BS1 does. The BS1 is just the closet approximation of a target sound signature they could manage, within the time, budgetary, and spacial restraints delineating where their design could go. And who even knows what factors unrelated to sound quality went into their decision to pick that particular target signature. They are, after all, in business to sell earbuds. Making great sounding earbuds is only incidental, and only for as long as it fulfills goal #1. Obviously this is true for every manufacturer. Only a small number can afford to develop a prestige project for the sound alone (and even that doesn't guarantee results). Sennheiser can afford to develop the HD800 and HE90 not to sell HD800s or HE90s, but because those models sell HD650s and CX100s and those $25 workout earbuds and so on. But that's obviously not the case here.

I don't know exactly what the recording engineer wanted any better than you do, but I think they'd all want their music to be listened to and enjoyed most of all, so I try to put their music in the most positive light I can  

The engineers you describe don't sound like they're very good at their jobs, if their funky choice of monitor is impacting the mix that much. A good engineer doesn't necessarily have to mix on any one kind of monitor, but they absolutely have to listen to that mix on every kind of speakers conceivable to judge how it came out. Great audiophile speakers, college dorm room speakers, stock car stereos, cheap Bluetooth speakers, Beats headphones, etc. If it doesn't sound good on the kind of equipment their target audience is likely to have, as well as studio quality monitors for the purists, they aren't doing their job. Maybe for the music you like you don't really have a choice though?


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Feb 2, 2018)

waynes world said:


> 2+GB?



It's an old player, hasn't been made in years, the 750MB ones are always available for too much money on the auction site.  But it's the best sounding portable I've ever heard.


----------



## theoutsider

doggiemom said:


> I bought it, because I want to try the zen lites.  I have a bunch of portable DAC/amp combos, but look forward to mixing and matching.  (Most have a line out feature).   Uriois to hear the VE amps.


I wish to try Zen Lite as well because I like Qian 39 shells and if it is nearly as good as Zen, it should be a great earbud. But I really don't need another middle-of-the-road amp.
After some hesitation, I ended up ordering a Monk Lite 120 white. I will consider Zen Lite if I really enjoy the 120 Monk Lite.


----------



## liquidrats

DJ The Rocket said:


> Different POVs? You're not kidding! And I'm not saying mine is any better than yours, I'm just explaining what I think. I actually appreciate hearing about different viewpoints, because I never would have thought of it your way on my own.
> 
> I don't think Penon "wanted" to present music in exactly the way the BS1 does. The BS1 is just the closet approximation of a target sound signature they could manage, within the time, budgetary, and spacial restraints delineating where their design could go. And who even knows what factors unrelated to sound quality went into their decision to pick that particular target signature. They are, after all, in business to sell earbuds. Making great sounding earbuds is only incidental, and only for as long as it fulfills goal #1. Obviously this is true for every manufacturer. Only a small number can afford to develop a prestige project for the sound alone (and even that doesn't guarantee results). Sennheiser can afford to develop the HD800 and HE90 not to sell HD800s or HE90s, but because those models sell HD650s and CX100s and those $25 workout earbuds and so on. But that's obviously not the case here.
> 
> ...


You do have a point there.... what am I listening to! Maybe it's that video from Rick Beato that made me think that way


----------



## chinmie

DJ The Rocket said:


> So as a purist, you insist on hearing the limitations of your equipment? As a purist, I prefer hearing it the way I think the artist would have wanted it heard
> Not all headphones respond well to eq'ing, I describe the ones that do as having lots of "tonal headroom."





liquidrats said:


> I guess we're looking at two different point, artist pov and hardware pov. Purist in the way of the sound sig of the buds as how penon intended it to sound like. For me I will never really know how the artist intend it to sound like until we listen to the sound engineer in the studio room mastering the track, some of them run on a very old speakers that they only know the sound sig from it.




Eq is used to sculp the sound to your (the listener's) liking. Originally Eq was used on speaker system "only" to equalize the effect of the room/environment that's affecting the speakers so it would sound as true to the speakers originally intended sound supposed to be.. 

So for closed in set like headphones, iems, earbuds, it is ideally not to use EQ, unless of course you already like the sound, but just want a touch of bass, for example). The problem is using digital eq, just by turning it on, the whole sound is being affected by the dsp, even on flat. That's why people try to avoid using eq if possible. 

So yes, like @liquidrats said,  there is what we call "house signature  sound", meaning the maker of the speakers, earphones, earbuds, etc did have a sound that they intended to deliver on that particular product (some make their phones bass heavy, some focuses on clarity, some focuses on mids/vocals, staging, you get the idea). 

The recording people's job is that the music can be played on (or at least passable) that multiple systems, and that it can deliver the "message" of the song to the listener. for example an EDM artist definitely mix and wanted their song to be played on big bass heavy system, but it will be mixed so that even listening on cellphone speakers, the bass would still have weight. 

The artist? You put five band members in a mixing session, each of them will only care about their specific tracks only and want it to be the most dominant aspect of the song (unless the said player is shy or introvert, then they want their parts buried in the mix).


----------



## Ceteru

I got paid on Wednesday, deposit cleared on Thursday..

BS1 Official AND Hi-Z HP-650 are on their way


----------



## seanc6441

Ceteru said:


> I got paid on Wednesday, deposit cleared on Thursday..
> 
> BS1 Official AND Hi-Z HP-650 are on their way


The foams I’m using, doubled up on each side.


http://s.aliexpress.com/veMv6jMb

only $1 for 100. They must be selling these at a loss or something lol.


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> The foams I’m using, doubled up on each side.
> 
> 
> http://s.aliexpress.com/veMv6jMb
> ...


I was just about to search through the prior pages to find those. It's been a while since I used AliExpress, but if these are worth it..


----------



## seanc6441

Ceteru said:


> I was just about to search through the prior pages to find those. It's been a while since I used AliExpress, but if these are worth it..


Well they save you spending $6 on ve monk foams if you wanna try thin foams.

They feel a bit scratchy at first but they soften during use.


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> Well they save you spending $6 on ve monk foams if you wanna try thin foams.
> 
> They feel a bit scratchy at first but they soften during use.


Aaaaaaand ordered  

I told them in both English and Chinese (thank you college courses!) not to give a tracking number until they actually send the package (some people don't know that even though you can't enter characters in the note field, you can still add pinyin with tones), because I can't stand that. So they can't say they misunderstood me or that I never told them.. Who knows if they'll actually listen though


----------



## j4100

My EBX package is still out there. Aliexpress even declared it to have arrived since it has now taken more than two months. I did get a message a week ago to say it had arrived in country. I'll give them another week in case it's stuck with customs. I don't believe for a second that the package went out when they said it did. To be fair, all my other Ali deliveries have arrived in less than 4 weeks.


----------



## seanc6441

j4100 said:


> My EBX package is still out there. Aliexpress even declared it to have arrived since it has now taken more than two months. I did get a message a week ago to say it had arrived in country. I'll give them another week in case it's stuck with customs. I don't believe for a second that the package went out when they said it did. To be fair, all my other Ali deliveries have arrived in less than 4 weeks.


Are you s*** out of luck if the earbud is defective? seeing as your purchase protection ended before you even received the package?

This almost happened to me with my Masya, I had 4 days of protection left when it arrived.


----------



## Ceteru

j4100 said:


> My EBX package is still out there. Aliexpress even declared it to have arrived since it has now taken more than two months. I did get a message a week ago to say it had arrived in country. I'll give them another week in case it's stuck with customs. I don't believe for a second that the package went out when they said it did. To be fair, all my other Ali deliveries have arrived in less than 4 weeks.


I've ordered only one other thing from Ali back in the day, and the experience soured me to the site quite a bit. Lying about shipping, begging me to give them a good review in return for a future discount, etc.


----------



## waynes world

DJ The Rocket said:


> It's an old player, hasn't been made in years, the 750MB ones are always available for too much money on the auction site.  But it's the best sounding portable I've ever heard.



Yeah, but is it better than the 'ol Clip Zip? 

I couldn't deal with that kind of storage (and lack of microsd card slot), or with no lossless support (ie flac, wav), but it's interesting!

p.s. I just passed a head-fi milestone. Time for some counselling lol.


----------



## Rendster

Guys i'm just curious, what made you choose earbuds over IEM and headphones? Is it because of the sound quality? comfort/fit? design/looks?


----------



## seanc6441

Ceteru said:


> I've ordered only one other thing from Ali back in the day, and the experience soured me to the site quite a bit. Lying about shipping, begging me to give them a good review in return for a future discount, etc.


For better or worse 90% of chi fi earbuds we buy are sold on aliexpress.

Alternative sites are usually not as big or don’t provide the same great deals for budget earbuds.


----------



## seanc6441

Rendster said:


> Guys i'm just curious, what made you choose earbuds over IEM and headphones? Is it because of the sound quality? comfort/fit? design/looks?


For me it was the horrible experience my ears feel with IEM’s, they were too uncomfortable for me.

It just so happens that these days earbuds sound amazing so I’m content with them atm.

You only really lack the body shaking bass you get from some headphones and the ultra deep bass from some iems/headphones but other than that they can achieve a lot for the form factor, soundstage included.


----------



## Majin

I have been trying the Qian25 once again after using the Vido's and RY4S for quite some time.
The Qian25 is still sooo good. Not muffled like the Vido's and so much clearer than both of the latter earbuds. 
I have been looking into the Qian25 once again and they have this improved braided cable with a mic.
Did anybody try those?

https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/New-...63ee-4a39-9b98-afe4c1d926c4&priceBeautifyAB=0


----------



## waynes world (Feb 2, 2018)

Rendster said:


> Guys i'm just curious, what made you choose earbuds over IEM and headphones? Is it because of the sound quality? comfort/fit? design/looks?



I mainly listen to headphones at my desk, or at the gym or where I need isolation.

I use buds everywhere else, and like them over iems for the following reasons:

(1) iems make my ear canals very itchy
(2) iems cut off any air into the ear canal, which I think can lead to ear infections
(3) iems cause my tinnitus to flare up (maybe the elevated bass - not sure). I haven't had tinnitus since switching to buds.
(4) iems isolate tooooo well for my purposes (although I am aware of the benefits). I need to have some level of environmental awareness.
(5) buds are more comfortable for sleeping with
(6) buds sound great, and the lower priced buds sound better than similarly priced iems (imo)


----------



## Ceteru (Feb 2, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> For better or worse 90% of chi fi earbuds we buy are sold on aliexpress.
> 
> Alternative sites are usually not as big or don’t provide the same great deals for budget earbuds.


True, which is why I'm kinda biting the bullet. At least with this thread I have links to reputable dealers that others have bought from.



Rendster said:


> Guys i'm just curious, what made you choose earbuds over IEM and headphones? Is it because of the sound quality? comfort/fit? design/looks?



Personally, although I've been a headphones kind of guy for a long time, lately, I've been drawn to the simplicity and portability of earbuds. It's very freeing to have great sound quality that you can listen to at home, on the way to work, and then while at work, without worrying about it being cumbersome. I can stuff my Monks into my pocket; can't do that with my headphones.

IEMs have never really been uncomfortable to me, but they've always been a hassle to deal with personally (making sure the right tips fit your ear canals, making sure they're not pressed in TOO deep otherwise that affects the sound negatively, hoping the little filter discs don't get too gunked up or fall out, etc.) whereas the main issues with earbuds are bass and comfort (sound quality used to be an issue but that has improved a lot over the years). I haven't ever tried CIEMs, but I'm sure most of my issues with IEMs would be allieved once I did.

Don't get me wrong, I still like and own some IEMs, because they offer great isolation. But lately, whenever I want a similar listening situation to an open-back headphone, I reach for my earbuds.

EDIT: Also, like @waynes world said, the price points for hi-level earbuds and hi-level IEMs are quite different.


----------



## fairx

1st. Comfort
2nd. Open sounding
3rd. Price performance ratio
4th. I still listen to iem, and speakers. why limit yourself


----------



## Saoshyant

For me it's mainly comfort.  Most earbuds are an 8/10 or higher where IEMs are very difficult for me to find a proper & comfortable fit.  I'm lucky that my IE800 is near perfect in both regards, and the Rose Pudding isn't too far off either.  For most of my music something like the CampFreds is great, and Raven MK2 shows amazing promise as I think it might outperform Blue Darth for what the BD is good at.


----------



## Danneq

Rendster said:


> Guys i'm just curious, what made you choose earbuds over IEM and headphones? Is it because of the sound quality? comfort/fit? design/looks?



I cannot stand IEMs. I used to have a few portable headphones (I mainly listen to music on the go), but now I have sold everything except for ATH ES10. Earbuds are comfortable and can sound quite good.

I've also got a small collection of clip-on earphones but those isolate and leak music worse than earbuds...


----------



## Majin

Comfort and price to performance. I am already blown away what earbuds can do for under $5. None of the $15 IEM can rival them.


----------



## plumpjack

seanc6441 said:


> The BS1 is like a neutral BK (bk is slightly warmer) with very similar signature overall but with a bigger soundstage. I said a few months ago the similarities between the two are easily recognisable except a few nuances like less forward vocals than bk, slightly smoother treble and slightly less thick mid range but still keeping most of the texture found in the midrange of the bk.



Thanks! Yeah from everything I've been reading on this thread I had a feeling the BS1 would be one for me to try. Time to start saving for it!


----------



## j4100

seanc6441 said:


> Are you s*** out of luck if the earbud is defective? seeing as your purchase protection ended before you even received the package?
> 
> This almost happened to me with my Masya, I had 4 days of protection left when it arrived.



Whoah! I wasn't aware of that. I would like to think the seller is a decent enough person so sort things out if there was a problem. We'll see. I was going to report the lack of package to the seller before the two month date, but I got that "arrived in country" message, so never bothered, expecting it to turn up before too long. 

Never mind, I won't be buying many more expensive buds from Ali anyway. I think I probably have enough at the moment, barring perhaps an end game bud (or two), but I imagine that would be a Blur or Cypherus, or something.



Ceteru said:


> I've ordered only one other thing from Ali back in the day, and the experience soured me to the site quite a bit. Lying about shipping, begging me to give them a good review in return for a future discount, etc.



I was advised by one seller that he would give me a big discount if I reviewed the earbuds, but I declined, not least as I'm no good at reviewing. I got a discount, but I guess not as much as I might have if I had agreed to review. I do question some reviews when the reviewer got the 'phones for nothing or large discount. Might be a totally honest review, but might not be the whole truth.

Stay cynical


----------



## Ceteru

j4100 said:


> I was advised by one seller that he would give me a big discount if I reviewed the earbuds, but I declined, not least as I'm no good at reviewing. I got a discount, but I guess not as much as I might have if I had agreed to review. I do question some reviews when the reviewer got the 'phones for nothing or large discount. Might be a totally honest review, but might not be the whole truth.
> 
> Stay cynical


Haha I intend to.

In my case, I bought a pair of cheap DAPs from the seller and they lied about the shipping. My package was delayed for nearly 1 month before it shipped IIRC, and towards the end of the whole fiasco I was letting them know in no uncertain terms that they were getting a poor review. The seller of course kept calling me 'friend', but she was referring to herself as a "young enterprising girl trying to make a living" and saying that if I reviewed her store well (despite my problems with them) I would get a discount on my next purchase from them..

I basically said "There's not going to be a next purchase!" xD


----------



## j4100

waynes world said:


> (1) iems make my ear canals very itchy
> (5) buds are more comfortable for sleeping with
> (6) buds sound great...



(1) Yup, I'm with those. I bought two pairs of reasonably expensive IEMs before I realsied that they were way too uncomfortable to wear for long. They sound great, but I'm probably going to give them to my grandsons.
(5) I use some budget buds to listen to music before I go to sleep. More often than not, I wake up a couple of hours later wondering what on earth is going on (music-wise) with the cable wrapped around me. Hence using low cost buds. I find the Qian 39s very comfortable for sleeping with.
(6) Yes!

I also use closed back headphones for use in the living room to drown out what my wife is watching on tv, especially if I am gaming at the same time.


----------



## j4100

Majin said:


> I have been trying the Qian25 once again after using the Vido's and RY4S for quite some time.
> The Qian25 is still sooo good. Not muffled like the Vido's and so much clearer than both of the latter earbuds.
> I have been looking into the Qian25 once again and they have this improved braided cable with a mic.
> Did anybody try those?
> ...



Is that the same shells as the older one? I notice they are different from the Qian39 and Qian69 I have.


----------



## cqtek

These are my first impressions after receiving the Nameless MoonDrop purchased at NiceHCK Store:

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/2017...Balanced-HIFI-13-5mm-Dynamic/32830971670.html

























The first thing that is appreciated is the distinctive packaging, even if it is made of little durable plastic, any packaging different from the box with a zipper already gives it an extra value. Continuing with the design of the capsules, they remind me of a hybrid between the Mrz Tomahawk and the 1More EO320. They are metallic, very light and smaller than the Mrz Tomahawk, which I appreciate very much because it makes them very comfortable, of excellent fit, they do not move. The cable, covered with translucent plastic, shows the braided copper, it has a very good touch and gives the sensation that it is not very susceptible to rolling, nor is it very rigid. These qualities provide another added value to the whole. The plug is completely smooth, making the disconnection operation difficult. It is practically the same as the QianYun Qian69 only a little longer.

Sound?
Although I had read that the bass was "fair" and in fact it is like that, I have not noticed the apathy I felt so much with the Toneking TP16 or the Mrz Tomahawk. And it is due in large part to the great comfort of these earbuds. Without any burning I have tried them with the Zishan Z3 and they marry very well, giving them a little extra bass. I find the profile quite neutral, it does not stand out from bass region (as I say very fair bass), nor from highs (it does not look bright but it has a touch of treble that provides air, clarity and a good level of detail to the whole) and the middle region it is not over emphasized either. Although it is the highlight of the whole, being clear and smooth with a great level of detail. They are analytical earbuds, focused on the details rather than on recreating a seamless sound wall or offering a good dose of bass. On the other hand they enjoy a good level of separation, air and detail without being sibilant.

I find that the Nameless are not as sensitive as other earbuds that I have, although they do not generate any kind of problem to be moved with the simplest player that you have. What is certain is that with the current level of burning they appreciate an extra power to sound more grateful.

My biggest surprise has been that, although it lacks the power in bass that I like, they offer me other qualities that I can positively value, such as their analytical profile, their construction, packaging presentation and their great comfort. The first impression has been so positive in these aspects that I have not expected to share it with you.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

waynes world said:


> Yeah, but is it better than the 'ol Clip Zip?
> 
> I couldn't deal with that kind of storage (and lack of microsd card slot), or with no lossless support (ie flac, wav), but it's interesting!
> 
> ...



That's a good question. I think I still have one somewhere, I'll investigate. 

FWIW the Samsung YP-Z5 is of the same vintage and it's right up there with the iRiver in sound quality. It even pulls ahead with better DSP, if you need DSP for anything, and I can load music directly from my phone with an OTG cable. The T10 requires syncing with windows media player.



Danneq said:


> I've also got a small collection of clip-on earphones but those isolate and leak music worse than earbuds...



I've been wanting to try a pair like that. Is there anything worth trying for under $50? Or is the ATH-EW9 worth the price they go for at auction site #1?


----------



## waynes world

DJ The Rocket said:


> I've been wanting to try a pair like that. Is there anything worth trying for under $50? Or is the ATH-EW9 worth the price they go for at auction site #1?



Yes, for $15:
Koss KSC75's. Dont Forget This Giant Killer in all the ''Hidden Gem'' Hype.






Better yet, put the KSC75 ($15) drivers on a "parts express headband ($3): 





Better yet, buy some sportapro headphones (ie $25) which have the same drivers as portapros (and therefore a bit more bass than ksc75's), and stick them on the parts express headband, and you have a rather incredible setup for cheap!


----------



## Saoshyant

@DJ The Rocket  ATH-EW9 is most assuredly not worth the current cost as you're paying collector's fee.  The comfort is only so-so, and it's bass-anemic if that's important to you.  It is quite small and lovely looking however.

I second @waynes world for the Koss budget setup, although I personally tend to use Porta-Pros with ear clips more.  I've tried 12 budget Chi-Fi clip ons, and while some of them are tolerable, the Koss options are all better.  For those that remember the old Joker headphone guide, most of the Chi-Fi clip ons I've tried I prefer to the Kanen KM-95.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

waynes world said:


> KSC75



Ah, I should have been more specific. I actually have a lot of experience modding KSC75s and PortaPros, I love Koss. I agree they're great for what they are, but I'm interested in something that takes a step forward in terms of clarity, without sacrificing bass like the EW9. I guess the answer is "no" then


----------



## redkingjoe

Tayyab Pirzada said:


> Ok I didn't really believe that different tubes can do much, and I was using a standard RCA Clear-Top 12AU7 tube for my Project Starlight amp, but I just tried the Telefunken 12AT7 (which I got for cheap on ebay) and WOW. The bass and detailing with Zen 2.0 is probably twice as good as it was before. My only qualm with the Zen 2.0 was the sub-bass (it wasn't _that _amazing) but this tube has just solved that problem for me. What an incredible noticeable difference!


Tube is the soul of tube amps.

By all means try the king of 12AT7, the mighty GEC A2900 with triple getters made around 195x to 196x! Telefunken is just a better than average tube.

It will blow your mind, certainly. And you know what you have been missing.


----------



## Ceteru

Man, I love it when I notice new things in old songs.

I'm sitting at work in a calm period relistening to some things I'd never listened to on my Monks+, and..

The track "Tennis Court" by Lorde has all these little details that I never paid to before I started seriously using my Monks+.

For example:

1. There's a continuous "snap" sound (I think it's an actual human-generated snap, but I'm not sure) that has an echo to it that I never heard before on anything.

2. There's this sweeping hi-hat-like sound that does this really cool loop instead of a standard sweep.

So instead of doing this: 

Left Ear ----------------------> Right Ear
Left Ear <---------------------- Right Ear

It does this:
Left Ear ----------------------> Right Ear
---> Left Ear

Again, I've never heard this in this song before today. 

Through all of this, all of these effects and sounds never get lost (too much) in the mix, and I can pick them out pretty easily. I never get a really "out-of-head" moment with the Monks+, but their positioning really gets me sometimes.

Whether all of that was the Monks+ or just me listening more closely, I can't fully say, but now I'm even more excited for the BS1s.


----------



## Danneq

DJ The Rocket said:


> I've been wanting to try a pair like that. Is there anything worth trying for under $50? Or is the ATH-EW9 worth the price they go for at auction site #1?



There used to be. Dunu DN-C60II was discontinued just a few years ago but used to cost around $35. Sounds pretty damn good. Yuin G2A is very airy and lucid sounding. Too bad that it was discontinued. I bought my pair for a little over $40. You can still buy the high impedance G1 but it costs over $100. The market for clip ons is far worse than it used to be for earbuds a few years ago...

I haven't heard ATH EW9 but own a pair of the older ATH EM9d. It is very balanced and neutral sounding. Moreso than EW9, at least what I have gathered from reviews.

I bought 3 pairs of clip ons from Yahoo auction in Japan through Buyee. Something like JVC HP-AL600-B can be found for a little less than $50 with shipping and agent fees from Buyee or some other Yahoo auction agent.

Haven't tried KSC75. The focus was mainly on Japanese ones like JVC/Victor, Audio Technica or Pioneer. But still my main recommendations would be the Yuin and Dunu.

Sorry for the off topic post.


----------



## Mezzi (Feb 2, 2018)

I spent a small fortune buying earbuds thanks to you guys, hate you....well not really.
This is what I have bought and tested (Allowed 10 hour burn-in)


1. TY Hi-Z 32
2. Monk Plus (Decent)
3. KZ ZS6 (IEM...I know)
4. Vido (Decent)
5. NICEHCK DIY
6. EMX500 (Awesome)
7. SHE3800
8. EMX500S (King)


For me there was absolutely no contest. Me and my girlfriend took a few days listening to each one and we were both in agreement.
*The EMX500S blew the other ones away*, so much that we started laughing when going back to listen to the other ones.


Dead serious. The soundstage felt wider, the bass satisfied my soul while providing sparkling highs, vocals are just beautiful here. If anybody wants to skip spending a bunch of money and get right to the real deal, get the EMX500S


While it sounded the best, it’s not perfect, what is right?
You do hear some noise in your ear if you are moving around but it’s just a small annoyance. I added a donut foam and solved most of that issue.
It’s amazing what these earbuds can do, just floored.
It’s so good, my Grado SR125e’s are collecting dust.


I ordered these today to see if it can knock off the EMX500S as the king


1.    FAAEAL Snow-lotus 1.0/1.0+ HiFi Earphone 64 Ohm
2.    DIY PK1 pk2 SR2 PRO
3.    TY Hi-Z HP-150s








As of now the EMX500S is like Mike Tyson in his prime, I hope it stays that way, I like my ear intact
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...32841881186.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.I1CoRZ


----------



## HungryPanda

I started with speakers, then iems (custom) headphone search then started. Finally ending  with earbuds. Love them all in their place


----------



## Majin

j4100 said:


> Is that the same shells as the older one? I notice they are different from the Qian39 and Qian69 I have.



The shell didnt change from the qian25. Not 100% sure if the black one had the chrome accents though.


----------



## waynes world

Mezzi said:


> 5. NICEHCK DIY
> 
> <snip>
> 
> Dead serious. The soundstage felt wider, the bass satisfied my soul while providing sparkling highs, vocals are just beautiful here. If anybody wants to skip spending a bunch of money and get right to the real deal, get the EMX500S



Ha - love your enthusiasm! Glad you're so happy with them. These are the ones that you linked to:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...arphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds-DJ/32841881186.html

These are the "DIY MX500" that I have:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...ass-Earbuds-DJ-Earbuds-Heavy/32789378048.html

Do you know if they are the same or different?

Also, what are the NICEHCK DIY that you reference above?


----------



## Majin

Mezzi said:


> I spent a small fortune buying earbuds thanks to you guys, hate you....well not really.
> This is what I have bought and tested (Allowed 10 hour burn-in)
> 
> 
> ...



I am very interested how those 3 new buds will compare to the EMX500S. Keep us updated


----------



## seanc6441

Mezzi said:


> I spent a small fortune buying earbuds thanks to you guys, hate you....well not really.
> This is what I have bought and tested (Allowed 10 hour burn-in)
> 
> 
> ...


Best message I’ve seen in awhile. A+ for presentation and the image lol


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 2, 2018)

Ceteru said:


> Man, I love it when I notice new things in old songs.
> 
> I'm sitting at work in a calm period relistening to some things I'd never listened to on my Monks+, and..
> 
> ...


Oh boy are you in for an experience when you go from Monk plus to BS1.

It’ll be fun to see your reaction in here


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> Oh boy are you in for an experience when you go from Monk plus to BS1.
> 
> It’ll be fun to see your reaction in here


I bet 

I already had several audio-related improvements I wanted to make for the new year (new at-home open cans, dedicated bluetooth cans), but I never thought earbuds would be one of them 

Actually next I want to up-/sidegrade my portable source. Currently I use an A&K Jr. that works well, especially with the Monks, but it's a bit slow and battery life is far from spectacular. I thought about a Cowon Plenue D, but it doesn't have Bluetooth. But the battery life is amazing on that thing..

I also want to make sure that whatever source I migrate to can drive the various buds I plan to get to satisfaction.


----------



## luckyeights

So iv been rocking my BS1 officials for a while now and they just keep getting better.  With my other earbuds i always felt like i was compromising something for something else.  Want good low end loose sound stage, clarity and get rolled off highs.  Want good mids loose out on some of the low and high ends.  Ect ect.  These I dont feel like im missing anything and can just enjoy every type of music or genre i can toss at them.   I really have to give props to penon for bringing us such an amazing earbud that is built out of very high quality materials at a honest asking price.  I really dont think you can go wrong with this earbud.  I hope this product is successful for penon because id like to see future products from them, especially if they keep up this high quality build.  If i compare my other earbuds masya, k's samsara, ty 650, these just out shine all of them in build quality.  They look and feel like a high end product.


----------



## iJay

Ceteru said:


> I bet
> 
> I already had several audio-related improvements I wanted to make for the new year (new at-home open cans, dedicated bluetooth cans), but I never thought earbuds would be one of them
> 
> ...



I had the Buy-Bug and while I was deciding I resurrected my older Cowon Z2. Wow...what a pairing with Monk+! I have nearly listed the want to upgrade and if I do it’s most likely gonna be a Cowon. I almost would feel bad spending the money so I’m just researching for some new buds. You can’t go wrong with Cowon for sure.


----------



## groucho69

seanc6441 said:


> Best message I’ve seen in awhile. A+ for presentation and the image lol



When do we let him in on the "small fortune" gag?


----------



## Ceteru

iJay said:


> I had the Buy-Bug and while I was deciding I resurrected my older Cowon Z2. Wow...what a pairing with Monk+! I have nearly listed the want to upgrade and if I do it’s most likely gonna be a Cowon. I almost would feel bad spending the money so I’m just researching for some new buds. You can’t go wrong with Cowon for sure.


I had a Cowon J3 that I would probably still be using had the power button not snapped on me (like they were known to do unfortunately). That remains my favorite DAP that I've tried; it was so good.


----------



## Yobster69

luckyeights said:


> So iv been rocking my BS1 officials for a while now and they just keep getting better.  With my other earbuds i always felt like i was compromising something for something else.  Want good low end loose sound stage, clarity and get rolled off highs.  Want good mids loose out on some of the low and high ends.  Ect ect.  These I dont feel like im missing anything and can just enjoy every type of music or genre i can toss at them.   I really have to give props to penon for bringing us such an amazing earbud that is built out of very high quality materials at a honest asking price.  I really dont think you can go wrong with this earbud.  I hope this product is successful for penon because id like to see future products from them, especially if they keep up this high quality build.  If i compare my other earbuds masya, k's samsara, ty 650, these just out shine all of them in build quality.  They look and feel like a high end product.


I just wanted to say thank you.....
I never normally ask stupid questions like ‘what should I choose from A, B, X phone’ as I research everything and make my decision from what I gather.
However, I wanted another dip into the the higher end of buds and decided that £80 was the max I was going to spend. So, I decided that I had a decision to make between of the Rose Masya, K’s 500 and the BS1, all of which tickled an urge in some way or another.
And just as I was sitting here, on a Friday evening getting slowly more inebriated and listening to some tunes and debating again whether I would ask the eternally stupid question of ‘hey guys and gals, which one would you choose’ you very kindly make my mind up with an inciteful and like minded post.
Kudos and thanks. 
Now if I could find my bloody wallet. Where did the missus hide it?????


----------



## TLDRonin

How are the auglamour rx-1 compared to monk plus?


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 2, 2018)

Yobster69 said:


> I just wanted to say thank you.....
> I never normally ask stupid questions like ‘what should I choose from A, B, X phone’ as I research everything and make my decision from what I gather.
> However, I wanted another dip into the the higher end of buds and decided that £80 was the max I was going to spend. So, I decided that I had a decision to make between of the Rose Masya, K’s 500 and the BS1, all of which tickled an urge in some way or another.
> And just as I was sitting here, on a Friday evening getting slowly more inebriated and listening to some tunes and debating again whether I would ask the eternally stupid question of ‘hey guys and gals, which one would you choose’ you very kindly make my mind up with an inciteful and like minded post.
> ...


I personally think the Masya is better for classical and if you enjoy a bright signature (bass isn’t compromised thanks to dual driver) with excellent extension and big soundstage (that resembles a hall, so not pinpoint imaging but good enough) and forward mids that are clear and ‘light’ sounding.

BS1 is more flat with a slight mid bass bump and more neutral tonality with decent extension (not as good as the masya) but with more laid back mids (in line not recessed) with more texture and fuller bodied vocals. Imaging is perfect, literally 10/10. Soundstage is nicely 3D and medium large.

Just don’t want you assuming masya doesn’t stand up to the bs1 for everyone. I initially couldn’t warm to the masya but i changed the foams around a few times and now I think it’s on par with the bs1 each with strengths but both are very versatile overall. I like them both for different genres.


----------



## iJay

Ceteru said:


> I had a Cowon J3 that I would probably still be using had the power button not snapped on me (like they were known to do unfortunately). That remains my favorite DAP that I've tried; it was so good.



I was wondering if the new Plenue J is supposed to be a replacement for the J3. Haven’t looked for comparisons.


----------



## seanc6441

TLDRonin said:


> How are the auglamour rx-1 compared to monk plus?


 Way higher resolution/detail. More neutral tonality. They need a good seal to bring out the sub bass, but it is there.


----------



## TLDRonin

seanc6441 said:


> Way higher resolution/detail. More neutral tonality. They need a good seal to bring out the sub bass, but it is there.


How are the mids compared to eachother? I hear the monks are more mid forward


----------



## seanc6441

TLDRonin said:


> How are the mids compared to eachother? I hear the monks are more mid forward


Both slightly forward. Monks are warmer mids, rx1 dead neutral.

Monks probably handle acoustic slightly better but rx1 will push more detail and cleaner vocals.


----------



## Blackground

Ceteru said:


> Thanks, I did mean the Mx500.
> 
> Another bud I'm thinking about picking up after reading reviews is the TY Hi-Z HP-650. It sounds like quite the experience, especially for the form factor.


HP-650 is a good all arounder, I have using them daily at work (idsd micro bl) for the last few months. I will say compared to other TOTL they sound a tad thin in the mid range, but have a nice balance id say from top to bottom. This is my happy medium between Shozy BK and Zen 2.0. Just bear in mind it is 650ohms.. Needs a pretty good amp to drive to full potential.

 Listening to some EDM right now and it sounds nice and airy with good imaging and separation, decent bass extension (no midbass hump, which I prefer). To be honest I listen to this earbud more than any other I own, it doesnt really have any faults aside from the hi-z. 

Definitely recommended for a TOTL collection.


----------



## Ceteru (Feb 2, 2018)

iJay said:


> I was wondering if the new Plenue J is supposed to be a replacement for the J3. Haven’t looked for comparisons.


If so, IMO it's not the best replacement; read here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/cowon-plenue-j.22835/reviews

I mean it's nice, but not $400-500 nice, not in my opinion.



Blackground said:


> HP-650 is a good all arounder, I have using them daily at work (idsd micro bl) for the last few months. I will say compared to other TOTL they sound a tad thin in the mid range, but have a nice balance id say from top to bottom. This is my happy medium between Shozy BK and Zen 2.0. Just bear in mind it is 650ohms.. Needs a pretty good amp to drive to full potential.
> 
> Listening to some EDM right now and it sounds nice and airy with good imaging and separation, decent bass extension (no midbass hump, which I prefer). To be honest I listen to this earbud more than any other I own, it doesnt really have any faults aside from the hi-z.
> 
> Definitely recommended for a TOTL collection.


That's good to hear  I've heard conflicting things about them, but I found them on eBay practically mint for ~$95 instead of their usual $120-126, so I thought "why not?"


----------



## Yobster69

seanc6441 said:


> I personally think the Masya is better for classical and if you enjoy a bright signature (bass isn’t compromised thanks to dual driver) with excellent extension and big soundstage (that resembles a hall, so not pinpoint imaging but good enough) and forward mids that are clear and ‘light’ sounding.
> 
> BS1 is more flat with a slight mid bass bump and more neutral tonality with decent extension (not as good as the masya) but with more laid back mids (in line not recessed) with more texture and fuller bodied vocals. Imaging is perfect, literally 10/10. Soundstage is nicely 3D and medium large.
> 
> Just don’t want you assuming masya doesn’t stand up to the bs1 for everyone. I initially couldn’t warm to the masya but i changed the foams around a few times and now I think it’s on par with the bs1 each with strengths but both are very versatile overall. I like them both for different genres.


Thank you Sean,
Classical is never a genre I listen to, and although I know that the Masya is not a one trick pony and will suit different styles, I was still wary due to a few differing views. The majority of music I listen to is electronic, dance and chill, and whilst I buy my phones to give me varying sounds signatures to appreciate my music in different ways, there are certain basics I adhere to. 
Do you think that the Masya would still be a branch I would enjoy (good sub bass, vibrant forward mids for those vocals, extended smooth highs) over the BS1’s? 
I just can’t help getting caught up in the hype for these at the moment!


----------



## Blackground

Ceteru said:


> Is that price quote a record of what you paid, or an offer?
> 
> But seriously: I've heard some people say that the HP-650 reminds them (sound sig-wise) of the (Sennheiser) H*D*-650s; would you say that's a viable thing to say, or no?


I personally haven't heard the Sennheiser HD-650, but owned the HD-600's and would say they are more less very similar in signature with maybe a tad more low end on the HP-650 (than HD-600). If the HD-650 sounds like the 600 with more bass, then yes I would say that is pretty accurate reference.


----------



## Ceteru

Blackground said:


> I personally haven't heard the Sennheiser HD-650, but owned the HD-600's and would say they are more less very similar in signature with maybe a tad more low end on the HP-650 (than HD-600). If the HD-650 sounds like the 600 with more bass, then yes I would say that is pretty accurate reference.


Wow, you're saying the earbuds have more bass than the full-size cans?


----------



## chinmie

@seanc6441 now that my friend's BS1 has arrived. I've not yet to audition it, but two of my trusted friend have been raving about them.. now I'm worried that I'd get 90 dollars lighter on the wallet. when that happens, I'm blaming you for it


----------



## Blackground

Ceteru said:


> Wow, you're saying the earbuds have more bass than the full-size cans?


Sorry, let me rephrase.. If the HP-650 was a full size headphone it would have more low end than the HD-600.


----------



## antdroid (Feb 2, 2018)

Just got the VE Monk Lite 120Ohms in with SPC cable. They are surprisingly quite good! I'm impressed for the price. They are more balanced than the VE Monk+ and less mid-forward, which is a good thing for me. They are very laid back ear buds, and surprisingly have some sparkle and can get some bass quantity (though not super controlled - great for the price range though) with donut pads on. I haven't tried them with full pads yet, because I think they are pretty laid back as is. Without pads, the low end is pretty anemic.

They take a bit more to drive than Monks, as expected. These things really are light and smaller than the monks.

I'll have to listen to these and masyas side-by-side later. I dont think these have nearly the clarity or separation those do, but I do prefer this sound signature over the Monks.


----------



## Ceteru

Blackground said:


> Sorry, let me rephrase.. If the HP-650 was a full size headphone it would have more low end than the HD-600.


Ah, I see; so it's sound signature is smooth like the HD-600, just with more bass. Gotcha.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 2, 2018)

Yobster69 said:


> Thank you Sean,
> Classical is never a genre I listen to, and although I know that the Masya is not a one trick pony and will suit different styles, I was still wary due to a few differing views. The majority of music I listen to is electronic, dance and chill, and whilst I buy my phones to give me varying sounds signatures to appreciate my music in different ways, there are certain basics I adhere to.
> Do you think that the Masya would still be a branch I would enjoy (good sub bass, vibrant forward mids for those vocals, extended smooth highs) over the BS1’s?
> I just can’t help getting caught up in the hype for these at the moment!


The masya ticks more boxes for dance/electronic because it extends with deep bass (very clean powerful bass) and extended and very smooth high’s.

The bs1 also has smooth highs, slightly less extended. The bass is more mid bass bumped, slightly rolled off sub bass. (by earbuds standard it’s got great quality sub bass and mid bass).

The main concern with the masya is the midrange presents slightly brighter than most earbuds and very clean/clear. But with the consequence of lacking slightly in texture in the lower mids and also lacking a bit of body to it. I’d suggest a fairly ‘full’sounding but clean source with these to thicken the mids if possible.

The vocals on the masya are slightly warmer and more forward than on the bs1, this does help with most vocals and the masya does female vocals very well.

If you had told me you listen to some rock/acoustic/pop and electronic I could recommend the bs1 because it’s more suited to rock/acoustic/and versatile enough to handle the others.

But masya has more of a wow factor for electronic overall, plus the truly out of head soundstage makes the whole experience of digitally made music feel more alive.

Either are good choices, but I think you’d find the masya more impressive if you want that extended bass and treble.


----------



## seanc6441

Ceteru said:


> Ah, I see; so it's sound signature is smooth like the HD-600, just with more bass. Gotcha.


The shozy bk was likened to the hd600 for in  a review I read when buying it for its natural midrange timbre. Of course I never heard the HD600 but people always rave on about it and it’s been around forever so it must be good lol. I love my shozy bk that’s allI know


----------



## antdroid

seanc6441 said:


> The masya ticks more boxes for dance/electronic because it extends with deep bass (very clean powerful bass) and extended and very smooth high’s.
> 
> The bs1 also has smooth highs, slightly less extended. The bass is more mid bass bumped, slightly rolled off sub bass.
> 
> ...



I agree with this assessment after owning both, though I listen to rock, acoustic, jazz and post-rock and I'm perfectly content with the Masyas for that. They both are solid ear buds. The Masyas do have an extra wow factor to them while the BS1 is super smooth and clean and a good all-arounder.

The Masyas do a lot better with a slightly warmer source for sure. I think the BS1 would too (I dont have them anymore).


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> The shozy bk was likened to the hd600 for in  a review I read when buying it for its natural midrange timbre. Of course I never heard the HD600 but people always rave on about it and it’s been around forever so it must be good lol. I love my shozy bk that’s allI know


Oh don't you worry, they're still on my list


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 2, 2018)

antdroid said:


> I agree with this assessment after owning both, though I listen to rock, acoustic, jazz and post-rock and I'm perfectly content with the Masyas for that. They both are solid ear buds. The Masyas do have an extra wow factor to them while the BS1 is super smooth and clean and a good all-arounder.
> 
> The Masyas do a lot better with a slightly warmer source for sure. I think the BS1 would too (I dont have them anymore).


The thing with the bs1 is the shell design makes it more difficult to get a seal for the deep bass, they extend decently with heigi donuts but I prefer the balance of thin/full foams on these buds.

The masya doesn’t have to try hard with it’s bass driver extending effortlessly regardless of the seal, so I actually like the loose fit on these and the shape it allows deep strong bass and airy treble at the same time.

I get that with the bs1 only with the double thin foams but the masya can do it easily.

But for me the added texture in the midrange makes the bs1 a better earbud for strings and male vocals. It’s a fuller sound yet still smooth.

And I think the bs1 may push a tad more detail but it’s a difficult call, both are plenty details, I think it’s just the added texture in the bs1 that makes the lower mids more detailed sounding.

Fuller still is my shozy bk, that’s in a league of its own when it comes to midrange prowess.


----------



## seanc6441

Ceteru said:


> Oh don't you worry, they're still on my list


It’s still the best thing I’ve heard for vocals/acoustic and some lighter rock, everything is so rich and vivid in the mids it’s just mesmerising. Shozy really know how to tune the driver for a perfect analog sound. I don’t even care if it has a small soundstage when it sounds this good


----------



## antdroid

seanc6441 said:


> The thing with the bs1 is the shell design makes it more difficult to get a seal for the deep bass, they extend decently with heigi donuts but I prefer the balance of thin/full foams on these buds.
> 
> The masya doesn’t have to try hard with it’s bass driver extending effortlessly regardless of the seal, so I actually like the loose fit on these and the shape it allows deep strong bass and airy treble at the same time.
> 
> ...



Yes I think the BS1 has much more detail/texture than the Masya. What I meant by smooth is not in the laid back sense, but the fact that everything just sounds natural


----------



## golov17

Kurt Chen
"SimPhonio Dragon2+ Earbud，Timeless Sophistication. Exceptional Aidio. Sell price is 320 USD"


----------



## mochill

What are those


----------



## golov17

mochill said:


> What are those


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1457070687682035&id=131502136905570&fs=5


----------



## ClieOS (Feb 3, 2018)

mochill said:


> What are those



SW-Dragon 2 Plus.

Those of you who might not know, the original SW-Dragon 2 is made by Sunrise to compete with PK1. In many ways the SWD2 is actually better (harder to find outside of Taobao these days, but still worth getting if you can get one). The SWD2+ (or Dragon 2+, same thing) is their latest flagship after absent from the earbuds market for the last few years. They also change their name from Sunrise to Simphonio. From what I have read about it, the new earbuds' diaphragm and cable took them a few years to develop. The transducer is named DMS driver, which the diaphragm is fused with three types of nanomaterials, plus a double coiled design. The cable is referred as 'silk thread copper', which is said to be a special kind of 7N OFC.


----------



## Yobster69

seanc6441 said:


> The masya ticks more boxes for dance/electronic because it extends with deep bass (very clean powerful bass) and extended and very smooth high’s.
> 
> The bs1 also has smooth highs, slightly less extended. The bass is more mid bass bumped, slightly rolled off sub bass. (by earbuds standard it’s got great quality sub bass and mid bass).
> 
> ...


Fantastic, that was just the reply I was looking for, you are a gent.
It’s a done deal. The Masya it is then


----------



## seanc6441

Yobster69 said:


> Fantastic, that was just the reply I was looking for, you are a gent.
> It’s a done deal. The Masya it is then


Yeah the only caution I’ll give you is that the midrange being bright takes a little while to get used to. I’m currently using doubled thin foams on it but the full foams from the VE pack (red/blue) worked well to tame it for general music (most pop music is mastered brightly), but for instrumental and classical I prefer the thin foams for best clarity.

There’s a little bit of sibilance due to the brightness that’s mostly tamed with the full foams, but it’s hard to avoid it for every song. Just a heads up!

The Masya is really really impressive though once you get the right foams and fit.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 3, 2018)

antdroid said:


> Yes I think the BS1 has much more detail/texture than the Masya. What I meant by smooth is not in the laid back sense, but the fact that everything just sounds natural



I get what you mean but I think the Masya is designed to be that way, extremely smooth but with less texture. Of course it has enough detail to push some texture but beside the bs1 the difference is easily noticeable. I tried to double up the cheapo aliexpress thin foams on the Masya (they are more transparent sounding than the new thin ve monk foams) and I was surprised with the gain in texture and didn’t lose any fullness over the regular full foams. The treble got a little more prominent but it was still smooth, the vocals gained noticeable clarity and detail. Rather than the ‘wall of sound’ veil you usually get from full foams, these foams lets the true tonality and detail push through, but not at the cost of seal for bass and fit.

@Yobster69 I tried both earbuds back and fourth with dance/electronic music genre in spotify and I can tell you both sound fantastic and can handle this genre well in slightly different ways.

The BS1 does infact have a respectable amount of sub bass but the seal is vital to achieve it. Masya still extends more effortlessly and has slightly less mid bass bump.

BS1 wins on vocals thickness and detail but Masya wins on presentation for that slight warmth and forwardness that brings vocals out better and more engaging to my ears. But both perform well here just with different presentations slightly.

Treble is anyone’s guess, masya extends slightly further but only marginally and both sound crisp and clear and smooth. Great treble from both.

As a reference I’m using VE full foams on the masya and double thin ve foams on the bs1 for this test, these are the best for this genre or general music.

Buying either would be a good purchase here I feel. So you can choose based on other aspects like build, aesthetics, etc. Because they both sound awesome.

I’m leaning towards BS1 for dance/electronic and acoustic/rock. But Masya for dance/electronic and instrumental/orchestral/classical.

Also note that the Rose technology (Masya/Mojito) has had QC issues and I have experienced some of this with my first masya. But that’s not to say you’re unit will be defective it’s just an issue that has been prevalent in the past.


----------



## Yobster69

seanc6441 said:


> I get what you mean but I think the Masya is designed to be that way, extremely smooth but with less texture. Of course it has enough detail to push some texture but beside the bs1 the difference is easily noticeable. I tried to double up the cheapo aliexpress thin foams on the Masya (they are more transparent sounding than the new thin ve monk foams) and I was surprised with the gain in texture and didn’t lose any fullness over the regular full foams. The treble got a little more prominent but it was still smooth, the vocals gained noticeable clarity and detail. Rather than the ‘wall of sound’ veil you usually get from full foams, these foams lets the true tonality and detail push through, but not at the cost of seal for bass and fit.
> 
> @Yobster69 I tried both earbuds back and fourth with dance/electronic music genre in spotify and I can tell you both sound fantastic and can handle this genre well in slightly different ways.
> 
> ...


Thank you again, and also for the tips on foams. I have quite a collection of them so I’ll have fun experimenting. 
And the downsides on QC are noted, but to be honest it was always going to be the Masyas if I’m honest with myself. The addded benefit of upgrading the cable and going balanced in the near future appeals. Plus the description you have given of them sounds like a nice departure from my existing bud collection signature, and I am looking for something different to add to my listening rotation. 
I really appreciate all the time you have taken in coming back to me. Nice one mate


----------



## gazzington

Are ty hi z buds good for metal? Just had some money for my birthday so fancy buying some buds.


----------



## seanc6441

Yobster69 said:


> Thank you again, and also for the tips on foams. I have quite a collection of them so I’ll have fun experimenting.
> And the downsides on QC are noted, but to be honest it was always going to be the Masyas if I’m honest with myself. The addded benefit of upgrading the cable and going balanced in the near future appeals. Plus the description you have given of them sounds like a nice departure from my existing bud collection signature, and I am looking for something different to add to my listening rotation.
> I really appreciate all the time you have taken in coming back to me. Nice one mate


The foams
http://s.aliexpress.com/veMv6jMb

Make sure to double them up on each side by either placing one over the other, or by cutting a ‘disk’ from one and placing it in the other so it’s less thick on the diameter. Either will do depending on how you need the fit to be.

Sounds really nice with these foams, kind of analytical but engaging at the same time, you hear better texture than the full foams which smooth out everything and add veil to the sound.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Feb 3, 2018)

Everyone is talking about getting the BS1 as if that was possible right now. I thought they were sold out. Where are all these coming from?

I missed out on a secondhand Masya and BS1 official recently (the official is the good BS1 right?) because I hadn't realized that I wanted them yet.


----------



## DBaldock9

DJ The Rocket said:


> Everyone is talking about getting the BS1 as if that was possible right now. I thought they were sold out. Where are all these coming from?
> 
> I missed out on a secondhand Masya and BS1 official recently (the official is the good BS1 right?) because I hadn't realized that I wanted them yet.




The BS1 Official website indicates that both models (2.5mm & 3.5mm) are _In Stock_ - https://penon-official.com/product/bs1-official-version/


----------



## Ceteru

DJ The Rocket said:


> Everyone is talking about getting the BS1 as if that was possible right now. I thought they were sold out. Where are all these coming from?
> 
> I missed out on a secondhand Masya and BS1 official recently (the official is the good BS1 right?) because I hadn't realized that I wanted them yet.





DBaldock9 said:


> The BS1 Official website indicates that both models (2.5mm & 3.5mm) are _In Stock_ - https://penon-official.com/product/bs1-official-version/



Yep, it's still available mate, I just bought one on Friday.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Feb 3, 2018)

Have earbuds gotten so good that traditional open-back headphones are effectively obsolete, at least for those of us afflicted with the earbud disease?

I recently got a pair of Audio Technica AD2000s, which are very, very good headphones. But I keep asking myself what they bring to the table that my very, very good earbuds don't, and I keep failing to come up with a good answer. The soundstage is more well-formed and holographic, on the ATHs, maybe more precise, in a way that I've never heard an earbud match. But I've never had an earbud that cost this much either. I'll need to spend more time with the AD2ks before giving up on them and putting them up for sale, but that's the direction this seems to be heading, and I'm probably going to be done with open dynamic cans after this. I keep thinking "I could have bought a new Mojito for about the same price!"

I suppose that the very best of the best full-size open cans aren't going to be threatened by earbuds very soon, but for anything less than that topmost tier, earbuds seem to replace them in the same way that IEMs don't replace closed-back full-sizers.

-------
@DBaldock9 @Ceteru

Thanks for the clarification! I think I was confused about the different versions, because the experience BS1 is actually out of stock. Looks like I have a tough decision to make between these and the Masyas


----------



## seanc6441

DJ The Rocket said:


> Everyone is talking about getting the BS1 as if that was possible right now. I thought they were sold out. Where are all these coming from?
> 
> I missed out on a secondhand Masya and BS1 official recently (the official is the good BS1 right?) because I hadn't realized that I wanted them yet.


They may have run out of the first batch but maybe they are producing them quickly im not sure. They are in stock now as said above so happy buying


----------



## antdroid

DJ The Rocket said:


> Have earbuds gotten so good that traditional open-back headphones are effectively obsolete, at least for those of us afflicted with the earbud disease?
> 
> I recently got a pair of Audio Technica AD2000s, which are very, very good headphones. But I keep asking myself what they bring to the table that my very, very good earbuds don't, and I keep failing to come up with a good answer. The soundstage is more well-formed and holographic, on the ATHs, maybe more precise, in a way that I've never heard an earbud match. But I've never had an earbud that cost this much either. I'll need to spend more time with the AD2ks before giving up on them and putting them up for sale, but that's the direction this seems to be heading, and I'm probably going to be done with open dynamic cans after this. I keep thinking "I could have bought a new Mojito for about the same price!"
> 
> ...



Definitely not. but ear buds are getting quite good. I still prefer my over-ear headphones to ear buds but they arent good for on-the-go usage. I also think IEMs can sound better than ear buds for the same price though fit is always the big issue with IEMs.


----------



## seanc6441

antdroid said:


> Definitely not. but ear buds are getting quite good. I still prefer my over-ear headphones to ear buds but they arent good for on-the-go usage. I also think IEMs can sound better than ear buds for the same price though fit is always the big issue with IEMs.


I agree that open headphones will have advantages with the bigger drivers for certain aspects so it’s still very much horses for courses with your gear, but are you sure IEM’s are better price-performance that could be debatable at many price ranges.

Obviously there’s nothing much over $500 to compete with 1000$ andromeda or other expensive high end IEM’s but in the 100-300 price range are you confident IEM’s outperform earbuds? In the budget ranges like 1-30 I’m fairly confident earbuds excell over IEM’s from what I’ve heard but my experience with iems is very limited so I cannot be certain.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Feb 3, 2018)

antdroid said:


> Definitely not. but ear buds are getting quite good. I still prefer my over-ear headphones to ear buds



 What do you get from the M220 or others that you don't get from earbuds?

I meant to specify only dynamic open-backs, because obviously planars like your HE560 are going to be capable of things a dynamic driver of any size isn't going to be able to match.


----------



## Ceteru

DJ The Rocket said:


> Have earbuds gotten so good that traditional open-back headphones are effectively obsolete, at least for those of us afflicted with the earbud disease?
> 
> I recently got a pair of Audio Technica AD2000s, which are very, very good headphones. But I keep asking myself what they bring to the table that my very, very good earbuds don't, and I keep failing to come up with a good answer. The soundstage is more well-formed and holographic, on the ATHs, maybe more precise, in a way that I've never heard an earbud match. But I've never had an earbud that cost this much either. I'll need to spend more time with the AD2ks before giving up on them and putting them up for sale, but that's the direction this seems to be heading, and I'm probably going to be done with open dynamic cans after this. I keep thinking "I could have bought a new Mojito for about the same price!"
> 
> I suppose that the very best of the best full-size open cans aren't going to be threatened by earbuds very soon, but for anything less than that topmost tier, earbuds seem to replace them in the same way that IEMs don't replace closed-back full-sizers.


Not for me; I still use open-back cans at my desk at home (matter of fact I'm thinking about up/side-grading those fairly soon). But for walking around the house, lying in bed, on the go, at work, etc. I'm starting to love my buds more and more. I look at it this way; when I'm watching a movie or show or listening to something and I want absolute immersion in whatever it is, that's what my cans are for. If I want convenience and portability without sacrificing quality, my buds are right there waiting for me.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 3, 2018)

DJ The Rocket said:


> What do you get from the M220 or others that you don't get from earbuds?
> 
> I meant to specify only dynamic open-backs, because obviously planars like your HE560 are going to be capable of things a dynamic driver of any size isn't going to be able to match.


Probably more effortless soundstage, extended frequency response? More powerful dynamics? At a guess!

Of course if you match prices evenly which is a fair test it may be closer than you’d expect.


----------



## doggiemom

DJ The Rocket said:


> Have earbuds gotten so good that traditional open-back headphones are effectively obsolete, at least for those of us afflicted with the earbud disease?


No!  At least for me.    I use earbuds at work, and when I am puttering around the house or working in the yard.  When I have the opportunity to sit on the couch, relax, and listen to music attentively, I always use my full-size can setup.  It is something I really look forward to:  if it is a bad week at work I think to myself "Ugh, I can't wait for the weekend so I can have a glass of wine and listen to the Utopias!"


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 3, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> No!  At least for me.    I use earbuds at work, and when I am puttering around the house or working in the yard.  When I have the opportunity to sit on the couch, relax, and listen to music attentively, I always use my full-size can setup.  It is something I really look forward to:  if it is a bad week at work I think to myself "Ugh, I can't wait for the weekend so I can have a glass of wine and listen to the Utopias!"


But comparing (what price are the utopia’s, over a grand... $2000... more?) to ‘cheap’ earbuds isn’t even a contest ^^

You could own the $700 cypherus red dragon’s and it’d still be unfair!

Edit: it’s $4000 I rest my case haha


----------



## DJ The Rocket

seanc6441 said:


> But comparing (what price are the utopia’s, over a grand... $2000... more?) to ‘cheap’ earbuds isn’t even a contest ^^



To be fair this wasn't really a part of my original question, but I take you point that perhaps it should have been.

 Also, I had to look up what "horses for courses" meant! My dictionary tells me it's a British idiom  so not surprising I hadn't heard that before


----------



## seanc6441

DJ The Rocket said:


> To be fair this wasn't really a part of my original question, but I take you point that perhaps it should have been.
> 
> Also, I had to look up what "horses for courses" meant! My dictionary tells me it's a British idiom  so not surprising I hadn't heard that before


lol

means right tools for the right job


----------



## silverfishla

DJ The Rocket said:


> Have earbuds gotten so good that traditional open-back headphones are effectively obsolete, at least for those of us afflicted with the earbud disease?
> 
> I recently got a pair of Audio Technica AD2000s, which are very, very good headphones. But I keep asking myself what they bring to the table that my very, very good earbuds don't, and I keep failing to come up with a good answer. The soundstage is more well-formed and holographic, on the ATHs, maybe more precise, in a way that I've never heard an earbud match. But I've never had an earbud that cost this much either. I'll need to spend more time with the AD2ks before giving up on them and putting them up for sale, but that's the direction this seems to be heading, and I'm probably going to be done with open dynamic cans after this. I keep thinking "I could have bought a new Mojito for about the same price!"
> 
> ...


I would say that you are fairly correct in your assessment as pertains to me.  I listen to my Rose Mojito more than my HD650’s.  I get equal enjoyment out of the two, but the earbud on the go factor decreases my use of a larger headphone.  Putting around the house or doing chores, i’ll Always use my earbuds.  The Mojito is a great bud and is close to my IBasso IT03 in resolution and energy.  Those are my two go-to’s for mobility.


----------



## antdroid

DJ The Rocket said:


> What do you get from the M220 or others that you don't get from earbuds?
> 
> I meant to specify only dynamic open-backs, because obviously planars like your HE560 are going to be capable of things a dynamic driver of any size isn't going to be able to match.





seanc6441 said:


> Probably more effortless soundstage, extended frequency response? More powerful dynamics? At a guess!
> 
> Of course if you match prices evenly which is a fair test it may be closer than you’d expect.



If I had to choose M220 vs Masyas, I'll choose Masyas. 

M220 isn't the greatest open back dynamic but it works well for using with my Arrius Piano and that's really it's sole purpose in life (for me).

HE560 absolutely beats any of my ear buds/IEMs in every single way. 

I haven't owned any other dynamic headphone outside the M220 in a while after going planar and never looking back. That said, I still think something like the HD600 series will beat the equivalent ear bud.

If we're talking sub $100 dynamic over-ear vs ear buds which are mostly in that under $100 price range, I can see your train of thought. Some of these ear buds are pushing the quality level pretty high these days while sub-$100 over-ear headphones are really medicore for the most part.


----------



## Ceteru

Just did a little experiment I concocted earlier in the week; I put in my Monks, then placed my closed over-ear headphones on over top (detachable cable removed). I wanted to test if/how isolation would affect the sound; I've seen how placing hands over the cups on my open-back headphones muffles the sound.

The result of this experiment was about what I expected; the buds lost much of their "richness" and body. They need the open air to thrive it would seem  I think if I needed isolation, I would just use headphones (or IEMs at a pinch), as this kind of finagling doesn't have a positive effect.


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> But comparing (what price are the utopia’s, over a grand... $2000... more?) to ‘cheap’ earbuds isn’t even a contest ^^
> 
> You could own the $700 cypherus red dragon’s and it’d still be unfair!
> 
> Edit: it’s $4000 I rest my case haha


Not comparing at all.  The original question was whether earbuds will replace open headphones, and to me the answer is no because I use earbuds and headphones in different situations.

For the record,   I didn't pay $4k for the Utopias.  I met an authorized Focal dealer at Can Jam last year, and he gave me a great price on a brand new set with full warranty.


----------



## Saoshyant

Ok, totally new toy syndrome, but I really am loving Raven Mk 2.  It's my third Crow Audio earbud, where the first impressed me with what a Monk mod could accomplish, and the second was solid but not my cup of tea as it was a little too neutral for my tastes as I'm a fun based listener, and the Mk 2 EQ'd for bass is really quite lovely.  Haven't listened to System of a Down in awhile, and it's really rocking on these with Shanling M1.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

Saoshyant said:


> Ok, totally new toy syndrome, but I really am loving Raven Mk 2.  It's my third Crow Audio earbud, where the first impressed me with what a Monk mod could accomplish, and the second was solid but not my cup of tea as it was a little too neutral for my tastes as I'm a fun based listener, and the Mk 2 EQ'd for bass is really quite lovely.  Haven't listened to System of a Down in awhile, and it's really rocking on these with Shanling M1.



I'm always interested in a new earbud with strong bass performance! Would you say it's more sub-bass or mid-bass focused? How "refined" is the sound overall? (Both as in "a refined and cultured taste" as well as "the Monk has been refined")


----------



## Saoshyant

I don't think either version of the Raven were Monk mods, just the original Crow earbud.  The crafter is friends with the maker of the Edimun & Demun earbuds from my understanding.

As far as sound, the bass peformance is a respectable response to EQ, with the natural tonality being fairly balanced with a little bit of a bass dominance in the spectrum.  It's probably L shaped with what I'm hearing.  With the EQ I use to test everything's potential for bass, I own maybe 2 earbuds that resulted in a certainly stronger sub-bass, the Zen 1 & Svara L.  It's roughly on par with Hi-z 150S for bass, but it's still early on in hours.   Details on this outperform Svara L, and I haven't compared vs Zen 1 yet.  It certainly feels more sub-bass focus with no bleed into the vocals.  As far as overall quality, details feel quite high for an around 100USD earbud, and the cable is lovely albeit a little short.

I really need to take more time to get to know this better, as it's proving for my preferences to be better suited than the Blue Darth.


----------



## mochill

Blue dart is the king of bass , that's what it says on the website


----------



## Saoshyant

The Blue Darth has reasonable bass, but not impressive.


----------



## waynes world

Saoshyant said:


> I don't think either version of the Raven were Monk mods, just the original Crow earbud.  The crafter is friends with the maker of the Edimun & Demun earbuds from my understanding.
> 
> As far as sound, the bass peformance is a respectable response to EQ, with the natural tonality being fairly balanced with a little bit of a bass dominance in the spectrum.  It's probably L shaped with what I'm hearing.  With the EQ I use to test everything's potential for bass, I own maybe 2 earbuds that resulted in a certainly stronger sub-bass, the Zen 1 & Svara L.  It's roughly on par with Hi-z 150S for bass, but it's still early on in hours.   Details on this outperform Svara L, and I haven't compared vs Zen 1 yet.  It certainly feels more sub-bass focus with no bleed into the vocals.  As far as overall quality, details feel quite high for an around 100USD earbud, and the cable is lovely albeit a little short.
> 
> I really need to take more time to get to know this better, as it's proving for my preferences to be better suited than the Blue Darth.



Interested in the Zen 1 comparison. Also considering the price, interested in impressions versus the BS1 official (not sure if you have that one). Thanks!


----------



## Makahl

Guys, kind of off-topic but can someone recommend a Chinese agent to buy on taobao? I'd like to buy some earbuds DIY stuff there but totally clueless to find a trustworthy one.


----------



## waynes world

Makahl said:


> Guys, kind of off-topic but can someone recommend a Chinese agent to buy on taobao? I'd like to buy some earbuds DIY stuff there but totally clueless to find a trustworthy one.



You're braver than me! Hopefully you can communicate in Chinese. I don't, and I tried to buy something from taobao, and let's just say that (a) there was shipping agent involved that I wasn't expecting and (b) there was a huge language barrier in the way. The transaction didn't go exactly as planned.


----------



## chinmie

DJ The Rocket said:


> Have earbuds gotten so good that traditional open-back headphones are effectively obsolete, at least for those of us afflicted with the earbud disease?



I don't think so. Different physics, different uses. I do prefer earbuds and iems though, because it's more compact and more convenient.



seanc6441 said:


> in the 100-300 price range are you confident IEM’s outperform earbuds? In the budget ranges like 1-30 I’m fairly confident earbuds excell over IEM’s from what I’ve heard but my experience with iems is very limited so I cannot be certain.



It's apple and oranges. Nowadays the "earbuds have better value than iems on the same price range" is not valid anymore. To me the KZ ATR is a better pick than the monk, and the Tin Audio T2 has clarity that is special on the 50 dollar range, to me no earbuds in that range can compete. Then again, the vido has a sound that can't be rivalled by any iem at 20 dollars below..

So what i was trying to say is today form superiority is much more complicated.. That it's better to just enjoy everything that works for you


----------



## Miknoboes

Danneq said:


> There's a BIC Camera and Yodobashi store in Shinjuku. Apparently there's also a smaller e-earphone store there, but I haven't visited that. I might be wrong, though.
> I usually go to Akihabara, mainly for the huge Yodobashi there and e-earphone.
> 
> There are some smaller audio shops in Akihabara hiding among all the computer related shops or tourist traps.
> ...



Thanks for the input! I think I would prefer a touch of musicality than overall neutrality so I think either the Graphenes or the NiceHCK PK2s would be my best bet. Out of curiosity, what are the differences between the Graphenes and the NiceHCK Pk2s? Also, if I get a 2017 version of the Graphenes would they be any different than the old Graphenes that you mentioned? Thanks in advance for the info!


----------



## orderingrabbits

Ceteru said:


> Just did a little experiment I concocted earlier in the week; I put in my Monks, then placed my closed over-ear headphones on over top (detachable cable removed). I wanted to test if/how isolation would affect the sound; I've seen how placing hands over the cups on my open-back headphones muffles the sound.
> 
> The result of this experiment was about what I expected; the buds lost much of their "richness" and body. They need the open air to thrive it would seem  I think if I needed isolation, I would just use headphones (or IEMs at a pinch), as this kind of finagling doesn't have a positive effect.



Some time ago I did something similar, I put the KSC75 inside my LCD-2f. It was surprisingly good - probably even better than just the KSC75 by itself, just goes to show how much enclosure can affect sound. I've also tried Moondrop nameless + STAX + LSR305 (all playing at the same time) and it's the really strange and doesn't sound too good. The phase gets all out of whack and you can really hear it.


----------



## jrazmar

I like the EMX500 balanced sound and how it's treble is not piercing to the ears. Does upgrading to Masya be in line with that sound signature? I'm betting the Masya is way better. Just want to ensure it's not like needles when other people describe its sound as bright and hot on top. I might pull the trigger on the Rose vs the BS1 and BK.


----------



## chinmie

jrazmar said:


> I like the EMX500 balanced sound and how it's treble is not piercing to the ears. Does upgrading to Masya be in line with that sound signature? I'm betting the Masya is way better. Just want to ensure it's not like needles when other people describe its sound as bright and hot on top. I might pull the trigger on the Rose vs the BS1 and BK.



it's a little different. the K's 500 or samsara is more similar to EMX500


----------



## rkw

orderingrabbits said:


> I've also tried Moondrop nameless + STAX + LSR305 (all playing at the same time) and it's the really strange and doesn't sound too good. The phase gets all out of whack and you can really hear it.


What a bizarre thing to do. The speakers will certainly get out of whack with the headphones. How was it without the speakers (just Moondrop + Stax)?


----------



## DJ The Rocket

chinmie said:


> the vido has a sound that can't be rivalled by any iem at 20 dollars below..



I'm not sure if that's true. The (now discontinued, sadly) Philips SHE3905 cost between $10-20 and those are at least as good. That was a bona fide giant killer (medium sized giants)


----------



## chinmie

DJ The Rocket said:


> I'm not sure if that's true. The (now discontinued, sadly) Philips SHE3905 cost between $10-20 and those are at least as good. That was a bona fide giant killer (medium sized giants)



thanks for the suggestion , I'll take your word for it . i can still find them on my local store, i will definitely try them


----------



## jrazmar

chinmie said:


> it's a little different. the K's 500 or samsara is more similar to EMX500



Thanks for the suggestion. I was initially considering the samsara but the high impedance might be an issue as I will be using it with a smartphone. No amp but probably with a dragonfly red/black. Im just concerned really that people are saying that the masya is too bright same with its higher end brother the Mojito. If treble is extended but just with the right sparkle then I might bite it.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 4, 2018)

orderingrabbits said:


> Some time ago I did something similar, I put the KSC75 inside my LCD-2f. It was surprisingly good - probably even better than just the KSC75 by itself, just goes to show how much enclosure can affect sound. I've also tried Moondrop nameless + STAX + LSR305 (all playing at the same time) and it's the really strange and doesn't sound too good. The phase gets all out of whack and you can really hear it.



The KSC75 enclosed in a full size closed back/semi closed back cup is the Stratokosster! It’s a popular diy mod to drastically improve the SQ apparently. Kind of like the sennheiser px100 > Senngrado build.


jrazmar said:


> I like the EMX500 balanced sound and how it's treble is not piercing to the ears. Does upgrading to Masya be in line with that sound signature? I'm betting the Masya is way better. Just want to ensure it's not like needles when other people describe its sound as bright and hot on top. I might pull the trigger on the Rose vs the BS1 and BK.


I usually say emx500 users will enjoy the masya due to extension and a similar signature just with better mids on the masya, but listen to chinmie as the samsara is probably a better bet being slightly u shaped and probably a thicker sound than masya so more akin to the emx500.

Also masya is a different kind of brightness, it does have a bright tonality and slightly lifted trrble but it’s not harsh at all! It’s very smooth and easily tolerable with foams. It’s got excellent treble to my ears and I do not enjoy harsh treble at all.


----------



## chinmie

jrazmar said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. I was initially considering the samsara but the high impedance might be an issue as I will be using it with a smartphone. No amp but probably with a dragonfly red/black. Im just concerned really that people are saying that the masya is too bright same with its higher end brother the Mojito. If treble is extended but just with the right sparkle then I might bite it.



i think the dragonfly could handle the samsara just fine. 

the masya is neutral smooth, with nice mids, while the Mojito has recessed mids and more brittle highs compared to masya.


----------



## capnjack

Anybody wanna give an impression of the **** zx1?


----------



## groucho69

DJ The Rocket said:


> *Have earbuds gotten so good that traditional open-back headphones are effectively obsolete*, at least for those of us afflicted with the earbud disease?
> 
> I recently got a pair of Audio Technica AD2000s, which are very, very good headphones. But I keep asking myself what they bring to the table that my very, very good earbuds don't, and I keep failing to come up with a good answer. The soundstage is more well-formed and holographic, on the ATHs, maybe more precise, in a way that I've never heard an earbud match. But I've never had an earbud that cost this much either. I'll need to spend more time with the AD2ks before giving up on them and putting them up for sale, but that's the direction this seems to be heading, and I'm probably going to be done with open dynamic cans after this. I keep thinking "I could have bought a new Mojito for about the same price!"
> 
> I suppose that the very best of the best full-size open cans aren't going to be threatened by earbuds very soon, but for anything less than that topmost tier, earbuds seem to replace them in the same way that IEMs don't replace closed-back full-sizers.



I cannot foresee the day that i will give up my headphones. You will have to take them from my cold dead hands.


----------



## groucho69

Makahl said:


> Guys, kind of off-topic but can someone recommend a Chinese agent to buy on taobao? I'd like to buy some earbuds DIY stuff there but totally clueless to find a trustworthy one.



I've used https://www.taobaoring.com with good results.


----------



## ClieOS

ClieOS said:


> SW-Dragon 2 Plus.



Exciting news - I'll have this coming in 2~3 weeks, hopefully. Hard to say in certain since Chineae New Year is just around the corner, so there could be some delay.

Also, for those who are interested in IEM, Simphonio / Sunrise is also releasing an updated version of their old flagship IEM, the Xcited 2.


----------



## doggiemom (Feb 4, 2018)

jrazmar said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. I was initially considering the samsara but the high impedance might be an issue as I will be using it with a smartphone. No amp but probably with a dragonfly red/black. Im just concerned really that people are saying that the masya is too bright same with its higher end brother the Mojito. If treble is extended but just with the right sparkle then I might bite it.


The iPhone will drive the Samsaras, though if you like to listen at loud volumes, it may not be enough for you.  Some cases will make it difficult to plug the Samsaras directly into the headphone jack (assuming you have an older iPhone that still has one!)  The plug on the Samsaras is quite beefy, and it won't plug all the way into my phone with the clutz-proof case on it.

Edited to add:  I received the RY4S with blue braided cable yesterday.  These have a LOT of bass for a bud!  Had fun listening with hip hop on these, but the response esp with vocals feels a bit sluggish.

I also got those Anime edition Seahfs.  I love the box and the look of the cable, but sound quality is average and the light blue rubber on the cable smells funny.


----------



## zeta555

ClieOS said:


> Exciting news - I'll have this coming in 2~3 weeks, hopefully. Hard to say in certain since Chineae New Year is just around the corner, so there could be some delay.
> 
> Also, for those who are interested in IEM, Simphonio / Sunrise is also releasing an updated version of their old flagship IEM, the Xcited 2.


man, another new one......






where can i buy this


----------



## jogawag (Feb 4, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> Exciting news - I'll have this coming in 2~3 weeks, hopefully. Hard to say in certain since Chineae New Year is just around the corner, so there could be some delay.
> 
> Also, for those who are interested in IEM, Simphonio / Sunrise is also releasing an updated version of their old flagship IEM, the Xcited 2.


Please tell me now's champion level earbuds.
Are there Liebesleid, Poseidon, Penon BS1, SW-Dragon 2 Plus in now's champion level earbuds?
And are there others more?


----------



## Danneq

seobon said:


> Thanks for the input! I think I would prefer a touch of musicality than overall neutrality so I think either the Graphenes or the NiceHCK PK2s would be my best bet. Out of curiosity, what are the differences between the Graphenes and the NiceHCK Pk2s? Also, if I get a 2017 version of the Graphenes would they be any different than the old Graphenes that you mentioned? Thanks in advance for the info!



There are some comparisons between (old) Graphene and Nice HCK PK2 in this thread. Here is one:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1779#post-13951944

It might depend on the genre of music you listen to. There's a bit more sub bass in Graphene while I personally find the treble just a tad to sharp. But then again, I am a bit sensitive to that... Soundstage is a bit wider and deeper than on the DIY PK2.

NiceHCK PK2 works great with pop and rock and overall I find it to be more coherent. So I do not mind there being less sub bass than on Graphene, or the soundstage being smaller.

I have not heard the new Graphene, but those who own both that and the old one think there is a difference.


----------



## silverfishla

jrazmar said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. I was initially considering the samsara but the high impedance might be an issue as I will be using it with a smartphone. No amp but probably with a dragonfly red/black. Im just concerned really that people are saying that the masya is too bright same with its higher end brother the Mojito. If treble is extended but just with the right sparkle then I might bite it.


The Rose Mojito and the Masya are very easy to drive, and for me, sound the best out of all my buds out of sources that are not that powerful.


----------



## rahmish

If anyone interested, I just posted in sales thread my Kinera earbuds for sale, but price is not cheap...


----------



## orderingrabbits

rkw said:


> What a bizarre thing to do. The speakers will certainly get out of whack with the headphones. How was it without the speakers (just Moondrop + Stax)?


You still get phase issues and a sort of "echoey" sound. It's less pronounced though. That being said, I can see headphone/earbud + subwoofer working if you use DSP to cross the two over. I don't have a sub though.


----------



## mochill

ClieOS said:


> Exciting news - I'll have this coming in 2~3 weeks, hopefully. Hard to say in certain since Chineae New Year is just around the corner, so there could be some delay.
> 
> Also, for those who are interested in IEM, Simphonio / Sunrise is also releasing an updated version of their old flagship IEM, the Xcited 2.


Very Xcited 2 hear about this


----------



## Saoshyant

rahmish said:


> If anyone interested, I just posted in sales thread my Kinera earbuds for sale, but price is not cheap...



Keep in mind the forum rules for selling at a higher price than what you paid, and the rules state personal ownership of at least 6 months before selling for a profit.


----------



## doggiemom

rahmish said:


> If anyone interested, I just posted in sales thread my Kinera earbuds for sale, but price is not cheap...


These were $23 USD during the pre-order.  There were a number of units that arrived missing the damper, which Kinera apologized for.  I sure hope that your is not one of them, seeing as you are trying to sell it for ~2.5x the retail price.


----------



## rahmish

doggiemom said:


> These were $23 USD during the pre-order.  There were a number of units that arrived missing the damper, which Kinera apologized for.  I sure hope that your is not one of them, seeing as you are trying to sell it for ~2.5x the retail price.


No, mine is fine, I'm just checking if anyone interested, if no, I can keep them for myself anyway


----------



## doggiemom

In other earbuds news, I see that the K's Ting is now available through the usual sellers on Ali.  I should not...... I will not......


----------



## mbwilson111

doggiemom said:


> In other earbuds news, I see that the K's Ting is now available through the usual sellers on Ali.  I should not...... I will not......



Is that different from my Toneking Ting?


----------



## doggiemom

mbwilson111 said:


> Is that different from my Toneking Ting?


Yes, apparently by $100-$200, depending on which cable is selected.  
I really like K's earbuds, but am holding off at that price.  Esp since the Poseidon is not available on Ali yet.


----------



## mbwilson111

The Toneking Ting is my most expensive bud.


----------



## doggiemom

mbwilson111 said:


> The Toneking Ting is my most expensive bud.


It is interesting that as the budget earbud offerings have really exploded (many great options are available for <$20), the prices for commercially produced TOTL buds keep going up.  And up...... and up........


----------



## Saoshyant

doggiemom said:


> prices for commercially produced TOTL buds keep going up.  And up...... and up........


Well, we have proven we'll pay, so who's to say how far it'll go.


----------



## ClieOS

zeta555 said:


> man, another new one......
> 
> where can i buy this



The first batch hit the market last Nov., but quantity were limited as they were for those who pre-oredered. The current batch, which is pretty much the mass production batch, has just been released last week and we should see it coming to the market in the weeks to come. Right now I only know one store on Taobao that carries it (for about US$320 if you are wondering). But if it is as good as it claimed, I suspect someone on Aliexpress will probably pick it up soon.



jogawag said:


> Please tell me now's champion level earbuds.
> Are there Liebesleid, Poseidon, Penon BS1, SW-Dragon 2 Plus in now's champion level earbuds?
> And are there others more?



Not sure I'll rank BS-1as champion level yet, but it will be close. It is still in burn-in and I'll need more listening before making up my mind.



mochill said:


> Very Xcited 2 hear about this



Haha, I see what you did there.


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> Is that different from my Toneking Ting?



i think what @doggiemom meant was the K's Ling. it's quite different both in sound and price to the toneking Ting


----------



## golov17

ClieOS said:


> Exciting news - I'll have this coming in 2~3 weeks, hopefully. Hard to say in certain since Chineae New Year is just around the corner, so there could be some delay.


I also hope got my pair after the Chinese holidays


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> I also hope got my pair after the Chinese holidays



Should be fun


----------



## golov17 (Feb 4, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> Should be fun


Agreed
meanwhile enjoying my Nameless .. very underrated earbuds in my opinion ..


----------



## doggiemom

chinmie said:


> i think what @doggiemom meant was the K's Ling. it's quite different both in sound and price to the toneking Ting


Ting..... Ling........   You are correct, thank you.


----------



## silverfishla

golov17 said:


> Agreed
> meanwhile enjoying my Nameless .. very underrated earbuds in my opinion ..


I’ve been trying to say, but flooded by by all the BS...1 that is.


----------



## zeta555

ClieOS said:


> The first batch hit the market last Nov., but quantity were limited as they were for those who pre-oredered. The current batch, which is pretty much the mass production batch, has just been released last week and we should see it coming to the market in the weeks to come. Right now I only know one store on Taobao that carries it (for about US$320 if you are wondering). But if it is as good as it claimed, I suspect someone on Aliexpress will probably pick it up soon.



well, in that case I'll wait for your impression first. I've got the poseidon, liebesleid, and bs1 in mail. i think I'm good for a while. but who know tomorrow, I'm prety bad at keeping my ordering impulse in check. haha


----------



## DJ The Rocket

mbwilson111 said:


> The Toneking Ting is my most expensive bud.



How do you like it?



doggiemom said:


> It is interesting that as the budget earbud offerings have really exploded (many great options are available for <$20), the prices for commercially produced TOTL buds keep going up.  And up...... and up........



I have to disagree with you here. Less than $100 for a TOTL-sounding earbud is fantastic. Of course, there's TOTL and then there's TOTL. But even so, how many earbuds cost more than $300? A couple? 

The cheapest pair of headphones I've bought in the last several months was $200, and the most expensive pair of earbuds I've even considered buying is $250.


----------



## jrazmar (Feb 4, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> The KSC75 enclosed in a full size closed back/semi closed back cup is the Stratokosster! It’s a popular diy mod to drastically improve the SQ apparently. Kind of like the sennheiser px100 > Senngrado build.
> 
> I usually say emx500 users will enjoy the masya due to extension and a similar signature just with better mids on the masya, but listen to chinmie as the samsara is probably a better bet being slightly u shaped and probably a thicker sound than masya so more akin to the emx500.
> 
> Also masya is a different kind of brightness, it does have a bright tonality and slightly lifted trrble but it’s not harsh at all! It’s very smooth and easily tolerable with foams. It’s got excellent treble to my ears and I do not enjoy harsh treble at all.



Thank you sean! Knowing that the treble on the masya is not harsh but smooth and enjoyable gives me hope and renewed faith on earbuds with a bit of treble emphasis. I have been enjoying bass in earbuds such as the Zen 1 & 2, Monk, Yuin PK1/OK1 and some Blox earphones and realistic/musical mids like the Cygnus and EMX500 but never came to mind of earbuds that do treble perfectly. If the Masya has that neutrality while remaining musical and has that wow factor in the mids and highs for casual commute and office listening then this may be my next earbuds. The detachable cable is a welcome feature for cable upgrade/bluetooth option. I was initially looking at the BK but now I'm leaning towards the Rose.


----------



## mochill

jrazmar said:


> Thank you sean! Knowing that the treble on the masya is not harsh but smooth and enjoyable gives me hope and renewed faith on earbuds with a bit of treble emphasis. I have been enjoying bass in earbuds such as the Zen 1 & 2, Monk, Yuin PK1/OK1 and some Blox earphones and realistic/musical mids like the Cygnus and EMX500 but never came to mind of earbuds that do treble perfectly. If the Masya has that neutrality while remaining musical and has that wow factor in the mids and highs for casual commute and office listening then this may be my next earbuds. The detachable cable is a welcome feature for cable upgrade/bluetooth option. I was initially looking at the BK but now I'm leaning towards the Rose.


Get the shozy stardust


----------



## haiku

I usually don´t buy earbuds anymore, but Muchjurat Luzifer is a true master! 

Nec Rahu gold silver naga

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1946310242295967&set=gm.1972024849725706&type=3&ifg=1


----------



## waynes world

golov17 said:


> Agreed
> meanwhile enjoying my Nameless .. very underrated earbuds in my opinion .



I think those will be my next ones. Similar to old grapenes but smoother. Yup, sounds good to me


----------



## Mimouille

haiku said:


> I usually don´t buy earbuds anymore, but Muchjurat Luzifer is a true master!
> 
> Nec Rahu gold silver naga
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1946310242295967&set=gm.1972024849725706&type=3&ifg=1


Cannot open this


----------



## chinmie

haiku said:


> I usually don´t buy earbuds anymore, but Muchjurat Luzifer is a true master!
> 
> Nec Rahu gold silver naga
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1946310242295967&set=gm.1972024849725706&type=3&ifg=1



I'm curious of his buds... Can you please share short review about them?


----------



## jrazmar

Being an avid Cygnus user, I was actually fixed with the BK as my next earbuds looking at the Earbuds Survey listing here and all the positive reviews from actual users until recently where a lot of players had joined the earphone game. For sure the BK will have the amazing comfort and easy drivability of the Cygnus plus the exotic upgraded cable and the more balanced sound overall compared to its brother. Of course, with the premium price, one could expect more something out of the Stardust. The wonderful mids and vocals it has is another factor. One thing that got me thinking twice though is the limited/smallish soundstage that is commonly mentioned among all reviews that I have read so far. Instrument congestion on complicated tracks might be more obvious on the BK compared to say Masya based on what I read. Still, despite of these downsides and lowlights, some have remained a faithful BK fan. Until I hear the BK or the Masya for that matter, I heavily rely on reviews, opinions, testimonies and feedback from fellow headfiers. That's my purpose of being here on this thread. So far, I'm thankful to everyone who have shared their personal experience and thoughts on the subject.


----------



## haiku

chinmie said:


> I'm curious of his buds... Can you please share short review about them?



Sure. They´re currently on the way, and when they arrive I´ll let them burn in for some hours, ok?


----------



## j4100

Mimouille said:


> Cannot open this



It's a link to the Earbuds Anonymous FB group, so I guess you would need to be a member to see it. as it's a closed group..


----------



## Mimouille

j4100 said:


> It's a link to the Earbuds Anonymous FB group, so I guess you would need to be a member to see it. as it's a closed group..


I am not sure I am ready for this.


----------



## j4100

Mimouille said:


> I am not sure I am ready for this.



You can always jump ship if it gets too much


----------



## TLDRonin

Best mid forward earbuds under $20? Debating between monks and auglamour rx-1s.



Pretty sure rx-1s are better, but I kind of want to try the monk plus hype


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 5, 2018)

TLDRonin said:


> Best mid forward earbuds under $20? Debating between monks and auglamour rx-1s.
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty sure rx-1s are better, but I kind of want to try the monk plus hype


Monk plus hype was a while ago, they aren’t the best anymore imo.

RX1 is better, diy pk2 is better. They are both mid forward options with great detail.


----------



## seanc6441

jrazmar said:


> Thank you sean! Knowing that the treble on the masya is not harsh but smooth and enjoyable gives me hope and renewed faith on earbuds with a bit of treble emphasis. I have been enjoying bass in earbuds such as the Zen 1 & 2, Monk, Yuin PK1/OK1 and some Blox earphones and realistic/musical mids like the Cygnus and EMX500 but never came to mind of earbuds that do treble perfectly. If the Masya has that neutrality while remaining musical and has that wow factor in the mids and highs for casual commute and office listening then this may be my next earbuds. The detachable cable is a welcome feature for cable upgrade/bluetooth option. I was initially looking at the BK but now I'm leaning towards the Rose.


Well you have to understand the Masya snd BK are completely different. BK is a king of natural analog sound and has the best midrange and vocals I’ve heard in an earbud.

Masya has a wow factor due to its big ‘hall’ like soundstage and great sub bass/treble extension. The mids are also great but the vocals are much lighter and less impactful in texture/body.

Both are slightly warm sounding, not neutral like the BS1 and actually both are slightly warmer than the cygnus.

Yes the treble is better on the masya than the stardust imo. More extended and smoother, but the stardust still has great detail and good extension on the treble.


----------



## gacyde

is there any earbud that sounding like senn hd 600 or akg k612?


----------



## golov17

??


----------



## zeta555

golov17 said:


> ??


it's about time isn't it? my first pair of pk1 is from 2007...


----------



## golov17

zeta555 said:


> it's about time isn't it? my first pair of pk1 is from 2007...


32 Ohm


----------



## seanc6441

gacyde said:


> is there any earbud that sounding like senn hd 600 or akg k612?


Shozy BK I read somewhere as having a similar sound to the HD600.

In my personal use I call the BK a very natural balanced and ‘analog’ sounding earbud. Vocals and mids sound amazing.

The one downside is a relatively small soundstage.

Although if what I’ve heard is true the Senn HD600 soundstage is pretty small in the headphone world. Maybe it’s a perfect match?


----------



## silverfishla

seanc6441 said:


> Well you have to understand the Masya snd BK are completely different. BK is a king of natural analog sound and has the best midrange and vocals I’ve heard in an earbud.
> 
> Masya has a wow factor due to its big ‘hall’ like soundstage and great sub bass/treble extension. The mids are also great but the vocals are much lighter and less impactful in texture/body.
> 
> ...


Well, with the Masya, you can change the cable and find a different emphasis if you choose.  I like the cord that comes with the Masya, it has a nice and rich full sound.  It gets a great timbre to vocals and a nice warm bass.  I have a VE SPC balanced cable and that one makes the Masya sound a bit more separated and impactful. plus I get to use it balanced.  Just a suggestion, if you want to play with your Masya.


----------



## Guggga

TLDRonin said:


> Best mid forward earbuds under $20? Debating between monks and auglamour rx-1s.
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty sure rx-1s are better, but I kind of want to try the monk plus hype



1more eo320. Plenty of impressions on here, search the thread.  Solid build and nice lush sound.
Going cheap on their official store. 

1MORE EO320 Piston In-Ear Earphone with Mic Mp3 Stereo Phone Earphone Earpiece Compatible with IOS 
http://s.aliexpress.com/uuQbiqya?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## mochill

golov17 said:


> ??


Saw it on Instagram


----------



## luckyeights

I dont know Sean i cant really agree with you on the Masya, iv had them since their release i got them in carbon fiber.  There is something very important that a lot of people seem to over look with the masya. They are a dual driver unit with crossover and to me this crossover is very prevalent to the point there is a gap a dead space if you will.  For instance there was as song where there is a dog barking in the background on my other earbuds but on the masya there is no sound what so ever no dog barking at all the frequencies simply never made it to either driver because it landed in the dead zone the space between where the cross over happens.   This dead space alone made me not like the masya, add in the brighter tonality of the mids (lack of fullness) I just couldn't accept them.  They also are very awkward fitting earbuds being that the majority of their weight sits outside your ear which in my instance made them lose their seal and fall out a lot.   I also find the build quality sub par given their price point, paint chipping and the cable is thin and same as found on cheapo earbuds. 

For the majority the masya is a good bud but i cant really recommend them due to their various issues you have to contend with.


----------



## capnjack (Feb 6, 2018)

luckyeights said:


> I dont know Sean i cant really agree with you on the Masya, iv had them since their release i got them in carbon fiber.  There is something very important that a lot of people seem to over look with the masya. They are a dual driver unit with crossover and to me this crossover is very prevalent to the point there is a gap a dead space if you will.  For instance there was as song where there is a dog barking in the background on my other earbuds but on the masya there is no sound what so ever no dog barking at all the frequencies simply never made it to either driver because it landed in the dead zone the space between where the cross over happens.   This dead space alone made me not like the masya, add in the brighter tonality of the mids (lack of fullness) I just couldn't accept them.  They also are very awkward fitting earbuds being that the majority of their weight sits outside your ear which in my instance made them lose their seal and fall out a lot.   I also find the build quality sub par given their price point, paint chipping and the cable is thin and same as found on cheapo earbuds.
> 
> For the majority the masya is a good bud but i cant really recommend them due to their various issues you have to contend with.



Is the song West End Girls - P.S.B ? There is definitely barking on the start of Suburbia - P.S.B


----------



## Danneq

Wow! First Yuin earbuds in about 10 years!


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 5, 2018)

luckyeights said:


> I dont know Sean i cant really agree with you on the Masya, iv had them since their release i got them in carbon fiber.  There is something very important that a lot of people seem to over look with the masya. They are a dual driver unit with crossover and to me this crossover is very prevalent to the point there is a gap a dead space if you will.  For instance there was as song where there is a dog barking in the background on my other earbuds but on the masya there is no sound what so ever no dog barking at all the frequencies simply never made it to either driver because it landed in the dead zone the space between where the cross over happens.   This dead space alone made me not like the masya, add in the brighter tonality of the mids (lack of fullness) I just couldn't accept them.  They also are very awkward fitting earbuds being that the majority of their weight sits outside your ear which in my instance made them lose their seal and fall out a lot.   I also find the build quality sub par given their price point, paint chipping and the cable is thin and same as found on cheapo earbuds.
> 
> For the majority the masya is a good bud but i cant really recommend them due to their various issues you have to contend with.


Isn’t the idea of cross over the fact that both drivers play the same frequency at a certain point to avoid gaps? That’s the ‘cross over’ of the drivers. I’ve personally never heard a gap in the frequency response but I do think it’s a bright midrange and not for everyone.

Can you give me the name of the song/artist I’d love to test it out on my masya and then my other buds to see if I hear it too.

The most important aspect is the source pairing though, it seems these buds sound different depending on the source and I’ve experienced this somewhat.

I’ve come to appreciate the strengths of the masya but I don’t think it’s an all rounder for every preference or genre.

Classical, instrumental and electronic/edm stuff sounds good to me though. It’s a different sound than my other earbuds but I don’t consider it a bad sound with the right foams.

As for fit, it’s very awkward (as in a loose fit) until I used the double foam method or thicker full foams. They are extremely comfortable for me though and the fit allows great airy qualities for my ear, whilst the strong bass driver keeps the sound punchy and powerful in the low end regardless of a tight seal or not.


----------



## seanc6441

Well I’m wrong about the term crossover it literally just means the implementation of joining multi drivers to foam a coherent sound. Maybe the masya is missing a frequency but if that’s so I’d be odd if you didn’t atleast catch some of the bark assuming it’s not monotonous and operates over a number of frequencies like most vocal tones.


----------



## luckyeights

Think of a cross over like a venn diagram. Depending on the implementation there can be a bigger dip in the cross over area.  When i get home i will try to find the song again, has been a little while i did the comparison back when i got my K's samsara and i noted the difference at that time.  The reason they use cross overs is to make it so one drive produces one frequency range and the other produces the remaining at least in dual driver configuration.  In the instance of the masya the larger driver does the bass frequencies while the smaller driver handles the mid and high frequencies.  In very well built crossovers you can minimize the dipping in the frequency range where the crossover occurs but it is impossible to not have a dip at all.  Depending on the severity of the dip you may miss out on sounds that reside in that frequency range.    For the masya the dip should be between the upper bass region and lower mid region.


----------



## Majin

Saoshyant said:


> I don't think either version of the Raven were Monk mods, just the original Crow earbud.  The crafter is friends with the maker of the Edimun & Demun earbuds from my understanding.
> 
> As far as sound, the bass peformance is a respectable response to EQ, with the natural tonality being fairly balanced with a little bit of a bass dominance in the spectrum.  It's probably L shaped with what I'm hearing.  With the EQ I use to test everything's potential for bass, I own maybe 2 earbuds that resulted in a certainly stronger sub-bass, the Zen 1 & Svara L.  It's roughly on par with Hi-z 150S for bass, but it's still early on in hours.   Details on this outperform Svara L, and I haven't compared vs Zen 1 yet.  It certainly feels more sub-bass focus with no bleed into the vocals.  As far as overall quality, details feel quite high for an around 100USD earbud, and the cable is lovely albeit a little short.
> 
> I really need to take more time to get to know this better, as it's proving for my preferences to be better suited than the Blue Darth.



How would you rate the Svara L to similarly priced ear buds? How is the clarity on them?


----------



## waynes world (Feb 5, 2018)

luckyeights said:


> Depending on the severity of the dip you may miss out on sounds that reside in that frequency range.    *For the masya the dip should be between the upper bass region and lower mid region*.



Also known as "that pesky dog barking region" 

Seriously, that's all interesting stuff. I also learned today that bluetooth 4.2 is better for audio than 5.0. Informative day so far   Edit: this might be more accurate: bluetooth 5.0 is no better for audio than 4.2.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

luckyeights said:


> Think of a cross over like a venn diagram.



Essentially correct   It's like this:


 

The top graph shows how a subwoofer and midrange woofer would divvy up the frequencies, and the bottom graph shows how the system overall should sound.

A crossover isn't a right angle, but a curve. If a subwoofer is crossed over at 100hz, it will play tones higher than 100hz, but at lower and lower volumes.


----------



## -rowan-

So I went against the advice of everyone here... and pulled the trigger on the Masya.

I've come to terms with the futility of comparing them (or any of the other earbuds, for the matter) with Stax (Staxes?) of any stripe. All I ask is that they acquit themselves favourably alongside the Asura. It's a reasonable target for the Masya... right?

And now I'll try not to buy anything else in the meantime.



luckyeights said:


> For instance there was as song where there is a dog barking in the background on my other earbuds but on the masya there is no sound what so ever no dog barking at all the frequencies simply never made it to either driver because it landed in the dead zone the space between where the cross over happens.   This dead space alone made me not like the masya, add in the brighter tonality of the mids (lack of fullness) I just couldn't accept them.



I'd like to know what this song is as well. Might give me something to do with my other buds and IEMs while I wait


----------



## Mezzi

waynes world said:


> Ha - love your enthusiasm! Glad you're so happy with them. These are the ones that you linked to:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...arphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds-DJ/32841881186.html
> 
> These are the "DIY MX500" that I have:
> ...




I honestly don't why what differentiates the both other than one has the "*S*" after MX500

The in-ear difference is that the EMX500S *has a wider stage and clearer highs*.


The EMX500 does have deeper bass, but throwing on a donut foam on the “S” version does bring in that extra bass that makes it’s damn close to perfect (for me anyway)
So it's for sure an upgrade and better than all the other "budget" ones I've tried.


----------



## Mezzi

Majin said:


> I am very interested how those 3 new buds will compare to the EMX500S. Keep us updated



Will do!


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Also known as "that pesky dog barking region"





-rowan- said:


> 'd like to know what this song is as well. Might give me something to do with my other buds and IEMs while I wait



I too need to hear this song.  I want to hear it on all of the headphones, iems and buds...speakers also.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 5, 2018)

DJ The Rocket said:


> Essentially correct   It's like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well that confirms my suspicion about the lack of body or ‘emphasis’ in the lower mids..  Does this means an advanced equaliser to bump up the DB in exactly the same region (assuming you have the frequency graph of the masya) would ‘fix’ it?

Is it simply just a drop in db level or is it more complicated than that?


----------



## nick n

Mezzi said:


> I honestly don't why what differentiates the both other than one has the "*S*" after MX500
> 
> The in-ear difference is that the EMX500S *has a wider stage and clearer highs*.
> 
> ...




From what I could tell comparing the fleabay versions, "S" and regular EMX500, the "S" has a silver cable  versus the regular's copper cable.
This would likely result in what you mention about clearer highs.

I should drag out the regular and take it around the block again. good stuff.


----------



## TLDRonin

Guggga said:


> 1more eo320. Plenty of impressions on here, search the thread.  Solid build and nice lush sound.
> Going cheap on their official store.
> 
> 1MORE EO320 Piston In-Ear Earphone with Mic Mp3 Stereo Phone Earphone Earpiece Compatible with IOS
> ...


is there a difference between the link you gave me and the $20 ones from other sellers?


----------



## seanc6441

nick n said:


> From what I could tell comparing the fleabay versions, "S" and regular EMX500, the "S" has a silver cable  versus the regular's copper cable.
> This would likely result in what you mention about clearer highs.
> 
> I should drag out the regular and take it around the block again. good stuff.


Maybe silver lined copper? I think a silver cable on a $12 earbud would be selling at a loss


----------



## vladstef

seanc6441 said:


> Well that confirms my suspicion about the lack of body or ‘emphasis’ in the lower mids..  Does this means an advanced equaliser to bump up the DB in exactly the same region (assuming you have the frequency graph of the masya) would ‘fix’ it?
> 
> Is it simply just a drop in db level or is it more complicated than that?



I've had issues with crossovers, I just keep hearing it in 95% of IEMs that have it. It's not just dips/peaks in frequency response, singular drivers have these as well yet they don't have the 'weird' sound in the critical areas. Some manufacturers mention this and how they've battled it - the problem appears to be a phasing issue because drivers can almost never be equally far away from the bore in the nozzle. This means that no matter how quiet one of the drivers is in the critical area, if you have overlapping of any kind (and you must, you can't physically make a perfect crossover), you risk having one driver cancel out frequencies of another driver, more audible the busier the music is (at least for me).
Earbuds are mostly a large single dynamic driver meaning no issues.


----------



## Guggga

TLDRonin said:


> is there a difference between the link you gave me and the $20 ones from other sellers?



If the $20 model you are referring to is the eo303, avoid that one as it has non existent bass frequencies. The link I posted is for the 1more eo320 which is the updated version with a better bass response.


----------



## ClieOS

Danneq said:


> Wow! First Yuin earbuds in about 10 years!



The most crazy thing is that there is no talking about it on the Chinese forum. It just comes out of nowhere, like a ghost.


----------



## tukangketik

ClieOS said:


> The most crazy thing is that there is no talking about it on the Chinese forum. It just comes out of nowhere, like a ghost.


Is this from YUIN or is it the poster  stating he is making new buds that is using yuin like enclosure (driver)?


----------



## jrazmar

Hi ClieOS, any thoughts or recommendation for the Masya? I just came back again to reading head-fi posts and I may have missed your thoughts on the Rose earbuds. Do you recommend it over the BK or BS1? Any other suggestion is appreciated. How's your impression of the Liebesleid and Poseidon? Thank you.


----------



## zeta555

ClieOS said:


> The most crazy thing is that there is no talking about it on the Chinese forum. It just comes out of nowhere, like a ghost.


is it a replacement for pk1? or a total lineup update?


----------



## DJ The Rocket

seanc6441 said:


> Well that confirms my suspicion about the lack of body or ‘emphasis’ in the lower mids.. Does this means an advanced equaliser to bump up the DB in exactly the same region (assuming you have the frequency graph of the masya) would ‘fix’ it?
> 
> 
> 
> Is it simply just a drop in db level or is it more complicated than that?





What do you mean? The bottom graph is what the system response should look like, which is pretty close to flat. You're not going to hear the notch in the top graph, because there are two speakers overlapping.

Obviously this is the way you _want_ things to look, and in real life most systems will be closer to or further from perfectly flat. Maybe the Masya in practice does have that "null" notch.


----------



## ClieOS

tukangketik said:


> Is this from YUIN or is it the poster  stating he is making new buds that is using yuin like enclosure (driver)?



I dunno. The official Yuin's QQ duscussion group (which is how most disucssion happen these days in China) hasn't had any active discussion for about a year now. I would have thought it should have been the first place any Yuin news breaks out first. Then again, Yuin isn't really known for doing any active promotion or things like that. Then again, they tend to be very low key about their business.



jrazmar said:


> Hi ClieOS, any thoughts or recommendation for the Masya? I just came back again to reading head-fi posts and I may have missed your thoughts on the Rose earbuds. Do you recommend it over the BK or BS1? Any other suggestion is appreciated. How's your impression of the Liebesleid and Poseidon? Thank you.



To me, the greatest strength Masya has is its versatility. It might not have one greatest thing that out shines the competition, but the every aspects is good enough to put it right there among / near the best of the best. It is just one of those earbuds I personally find it to be very hard to fault in anyway and would rank it as the best all-arounder in my collection, even though it might not beat the very ToTL like BK and such, it is still damn close. I am away from home now and probably be back in a few days. Will talk more about the others when i am back.



zeta555 said:


> is it a replacement for pk1? or a total lineup update?



Your guess is as good as mine. I just found out about this here like everyone else. I'll ask around and see what I can dig up.


----------



## tukangketik

ClieOS said:


> I dunno. The official Yuin's QQ duscussion group (which is how most disucssion happen these days in China) hasn't had any active discussion for about a year now. I would have thought it should have been the first place any Yuin news breaks out first. Then again, Yuin isn't really known for doing any active promotion or things like that. Then again, they tend to be very low key about their business.


I am guessing that its another model made by the poster since he is doing DIY and to be known throwing new models very often. But who knows, because looking at the shell it seems that I have not seen it very often in Taobao. It might be new Yuin, and the poster might be have a privilidge to try em.



ClieOS said:


> Your guess is as good as mine. I just found out about this here like everyone else. I'll ask around and see what I can dig up.


Waiting for your information. Thanks


----------



## theoutsider (Feb 6, 2018)

Hifi Boy Dream, an instant favorite.


----------



## chinmie

ClieOS said:


> I dunno. Your guess is as good as mine. I just found out about this here like everyone else. I'll ask around and see what I can dig up.





tukangketik said:


> I am guessing that its another model made by the poster since he is doing DIY and to be known throwing new models very often. But who knows, because looking at the shell it seems that I have not seen it very often in Taobao. It might be new Yuin, and the poster might be have a privilidge to try em.
> 
> 
> Waiting for your information. Thanks



I think we can confirm that it's his product, not yuin's. Reading his comments he stated that it would be priced around idr 200k (about usd 15)


----------



## golov17

chinmie said:


> I think we can confirm that it's his product, not yuin's. Reading his comments he stated that it would be priced around idr 200k (about usd 15)


Sorry for


----------



## zeta555

ah i get it, yuin as in "yuin sized"


----------



## chinmie

golov17 said:


> Sorry for



no need to apologize uncle 
instead thank you for sharing the info, otherwise i wouldn't have known that he's making a new product


----------



## ClieOS

tukangketik said:


> *I am guessing that its another model made by the poster since he is doing DIY and to be known throwing new models very often*. But who knows, because looking at the shell it seems that I have not seen it very often in Taobao. It might be new Yuin, and the poster might be have a privilidge to try em.
> 
> 
> Waiting for your information. Thanks



That's my conclusion as well. I asked around and no one know anything about it, and the people I asked are the most active earbuds user in China. They will be the first to know if any notable earbud coming to market.


----------



## jrazmar

ClieOS said:


> I dunno. The official Yuin's QQ duscussion group (which is how most disucssion happen these days in China) hasn't had any active discussion for about a year now. I would have thought it should have been the first place any Yuin news breaks out first. Then again, Yuin isn't really known for doing any active promotion or things like that. Then again, they tend to be very low key about their business.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the inputs, ClieOS! Reading through HF is very helpful and at the same time makes one more confused due to differing opinions and personal preference. One just have to find the people with similar gears and experience or those with the same musical preference and make it a starting point. Nevertheless, trustworthy reviewers like you and some here are reliable as well. Again, in the end, it's all about personal taste. Enjoy your trip and hope to hear more from you in the coming days. For now, I have shortlisted my choices here based on what I have gathered so far. Please note that these are all based on personal research and gathered opinions here at HF.

*$100-$150* | *Impedance* | *Price* | *Pros* | *Cons*
Shozy BK |  32  | $165 | Natural, realistic mids and vocals, comfortable form and exotic cable | Smallish Soundstage, Not an all-rounder
Penon BS1 | 32 | $99 | Neutral, Balanced sound/Larger soundstage than BK | Bit Heavy Cable and Big Chin Slider
Moondrop Ling | 100-200 | $149 | ??? | Not so many reviews (risky), Bell size might have fit issue, High impedance
K's Samsara | 300 | $149 | Balanced, clear sound, nice cable, familiar form factor | High impedance, May need an amp 
NiceHCK EBX | 32 | $138 | Glowing reviews in AE, clean and crisp sounding, cable options | Might be too bright for my taste
Rose Masya | 12 | $129 | Generally excellent reviews, sub-bass, detachable cable | Might be uncomfortable due to form factor, QC issues, might be tonally bright 
HIFI Boy Dream | 32 | $95 | Comparable to Samsara and VE Zen 2.0 | None so far


----------



## zeta555

the liebesleid just arrived!
need to reterminate this ASAP. but initial impression, the mids is great, the bass quality is good, quantity not so much


----------



## Danneq

chinmie said:


> I think we can confirm that it's his product, not yuin's. Reading his comments he stated that it would be priced around idr 200k (about usd 15)



Too good to be true then. The design of the housing looked unique. But on the other hand Yuin hasn't come out with any new earbuds in a decade. The PK series was amazing back then. Today it's merely okay...


----------



## chinmie

zeta555 said:


> the liebesleid just arrived!
> need to reterminate this ASAP. but initial impression, the mids is great, the bass quality is good, quantity not so much



what do you planning to reterminate into? you didn't buy the balanced version?


----------



## zeta555

chinmie said:


> what do you planning to reterminate into? you didn't buy the balanced version?


the 4.4mm, i'm using the eidolic 4.4mm jack for most of my cans. this one: https://doublehelixcables.com/product/eidolic-e-4-4g-4-4mm-trrrs-balanced-audio-connector-sony/

i didn't buy the balanced 4.4mm ver because they already on holiday so the wait time is long and i found someone who's selling their SE version for a good price. and even after the cost of the jack i'm still saving $40

i ordered the BS1 in SE jack because they didn't offer the 4.4mm option so i still need to reterminate it, so why waste 10$. i ordered the poseidon in 4.4mm though.


----------



## golov17

@jrazmar 
Shozy BK have 17 Ohm btw with neutral mids


----------



## jrazmar

@golov17 Thanks for the correction. Sorry I think I was looking at the resistance in AE instead of impedance.


----------



## golov17

Ah .. how I would like to see flagship earbuds from AKG .. Love them ..


----------



## seanc6441

jrazmar said:


> @golov17 Thanks for the correction. Sorry I think I was looking at the resistance in AE instead of impedance.


Imo it’s on the warmer side of neutral which I consider ‘natural’. If the BK is neutral, penon bs1 must be colder... I personally think a natural sound is slightly warmer anyway, but not too warm/dark. Just a hint of warmth.

Also it is a balanced signature not mid centric only in case you assumed bass snd treble are not as prominent, they are!


----------



## ClieOS

My initial BS-1 impression puts it more as a decently neutral but tilting towards a mid centric sound, though I am still need to burn it in further and give it more listening before making up my mind.


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> My initial BS-1 impression puts it more as a decently neutral but tilting towards a mid centric sound, though I am still need to burn it in further and give it more listening before making up my mind.


I think from the mid bass to the upper mids are emphasised slightly, yet the vocals are not notably forward sounding. I found with thin foams the treble doesn’t sound nearly as rolled off and if the seal is good the sub bass actually has some quantity to it. So I guess to me it depends very much on fit for the sound signature/quality.


----------



## chinmie

ClieOS said:


> My initial BS-1 impression puts it more as a decently neutral but tilting towards a mid centric sound, though I am still need to burn it in further and give it more listening before making up my mind.



please compare them to the Liebesleid, especially on sound quality/resolution and staging. i'm curious where the BS-1 sits compared to the champion level buds


----------



## chaiyuta

Hooray~~ Finally I can resale my Penon BS1 Official 2.5 mm. Yesterday I got inbox messages and he asked me to buy. For my ears it is still mid-tier level and I don't like its narrow-width sound stage than my familiarity even if I play on 2.5 mm. balanced output. A thing should belong to a new owner who adores it. Since he is an owner of 3.5 SE version, he definitely enjoy 2.5mm version as well. 



zeta555 said:


> the 4.4mm, i'm using the eidolic 4.4mm jack for most of my cans. this one: https://doublehelixcables.com/product/eidolic-e-4-4g-4-4mm-trrrs-balanced-audio-connector-sony/
> 
> i didn't buy the balanced 4.4mm ver because they already on holiday so the wait time is long and i found someone who's selling their SE version for a good price. and even after the cost of the jack i'm still saving $40
> 
> i ordered the BS1 in SE jack because they didn't offer the 4.4mm option so i still need to reterminate it, so why waste 10$. i ordered the poseidon in 4.4mm though.



Wow you play hardcore 4.4 mm plug!! My alternative recommend, not sure whether It is cheaper for you or not (depend on shipping cost and where you live), is OC studio fb fanpage. They have their own 4.4 mm. plug and Furutech 4.4 mm. plug as well. Or Toxic cable has their own 4.4 mm. Plug, or even Plussound has their own 4.4 mm plug too.


----------



## zeta555

chaiyuta said:


> Wow you play hardcore 4.4 mm plug!! My alternative recommend, not sure whether It is cheaper for you or not (depend on shipping cost and where you live), is OC studio fb fanpage. They have their own 4.4 mm. plug and Furutech 4.4 mm. plug as well. Or Toxic cable has their own 4.4 mm. Plug, or even Plussound has their own 4.4 mm plug too.


yeah, wen't all in in this standard.
and i used the eidolic plug mostly because it's the only one available here. 
but i have a couple of nobunaga labs 4.4mm jack (female and male) in the mail from japan. 

still can't stomach reterminating the vido. it's like 1/15 the price of the jack lol


----------



## waynes world

zeta555 said:


> the 4.4mm, i'm using the eidolic 4.4mm jack for most of my cans. this one: https://doublehelixcables.com/product/eidolic-e-4-4g-4-4mm-trrrs-balanced-audio-connector-sony/
> 
> i didn't buy the balanced 4.4mm ver because they already on holiday so the wait time is long and i found someone who's selling their SE version for a good price. and even after the cost of the jack i'm still saving $40
> 
> i ordered the BS1 in SE jack because they didn't offer the 4.4mm option so i still need to reterminate it, so why waste 10$. i ordered the poseidon in 4.4mm though.



So you have the liebesleid, and ordered the BS1 and poseidon. You just made me envious 3 times over lol! 

Congrats!


----------



## rkw

For low impedance, easy to drive earbuds (like Shozy BK), is there any point to spending more to get the balanced version? My amps do have balanced output option.


----------



## zeta555

waynes world said:


> So you have the liebesleid, and ordered the BS1 and poseidon. You just made me envious 3 times over lol!
> 
> Congrats!



yeah, but I'm sure my wallet envy yours lol 



rkw said:


> For low impedance, easy to drive earbuds (like Shozy BK), is there any point to spending more to get the balanced version? My amps do have balanced output option.



it depends on the source. mine(zx300), balanced output sounds miles better than the SE out. YMMV


----------



## ctaxxxx

zeta555 said:


> the liebesleid just arrived!
> need to reterminate this ASAP. but initial impression, the mids is great, the bass quality is good, quantity not so much



My impressions of the bass were the same at the time that I had them,. They're definitely more neutral. Can't remember if the bass extension was comparable to other TOTL buds though.


----------



## seanc6441

Anyone have any opinions on the Cozoy Astrapi dac-amp for their earbuds? It’s interesting being so tiny and convenient for ios devices.

Has anyone tried this and can give me the info )


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Anyone have any opinions on the Cozoy Astrapi dac-amp for their earbuds? It’s interesting being so tiny and convenient for ios devices.
> 
> Has anyone tried this and can give me the info )



I hadn't seen that one before (strange considering how long it's been out). Nice small looking unit. Not sure why it has a clip though. Doesn't seem to do anything above above 16/44 non-natively, but that may not be an issue for you:
http://www.cozoyaudio.com/main/


----------



## seanc6441

chaiyuta said:


> Hooray~~ Finally I can resale my Penon BS1 Official 2.5 mm. Yesterday I got inbox messages and he asked me to buy. For my ears it is still mid-tier level and I don't like its narrow-width sound stage than my familiarity even if I play on 2.5 mm. balanced output. A thing should belong to a new owner who adores it. Since he is an owner of 3.5 SE version, he definitely enjoy 2.5mm version as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 6, 2018)

waynes world said:


> I hadn't seen that one before (strange considering how long it's been out). Nice small looking unit. Not sure why it has a clip though. Doesn't seem to do anything above above 16/44 non-natively, but that may not be an issue for you:
> http://www.cozoyaudio.com/main/


Seems perfect for me since i’ll use spotify on ios which i believe uses 16/44, it’s half the size of the dragonfly and 15g weight... So if any device willbe ‘convenient’ it has to be this little guy!

sound gets very positive reception being slightly warm and well detail and separation is apparently very good with a wide soundstage... however there seems to be a high gain issue effecting sensitivie iems wity too much volume.

Now for earbuds this may not be an issue considering iems must be played at a lower volume than the earbud counterpart due to seal.

I just wonder if it’s worth the purchase and I’ll keep using my beloved 6s which is a fantastic phone for general use.


----------



## silverfishla

seanc6441 said:


> Seems perfect for me since i’ll use spotify on ios which i believe uses 16/44, it’s half the size of the dragonfly and 15g weight... So if any device willbe ‘convenient’ it has to be this little guy!
> 
> sound gets very positive reception being slightly warm and well detail and separation is apparently very good with a wide soundstage... however there seems to be a high gain issue effecting sensitivie iems wity too much volume.
> 
> ...


I have not used it because I own Shanling DAPs, but the Shanling UP is kind of what you are looking for too, and it does up to DSD.


----------



## mochill

seanc6441 said:


> Seems perfect for me since i’ll use spotify on ios which i believe uses 16/44, it’s half the size of the dragonfly and 15g weight... So if any device willbe ‘convenient’ it has to be this little guy!
> 
> sound gets very positive reception being slightly warm and well detail and separation is apparently very good with a wide soundstage... however there seems to be a high gain issue effecting sensitivie iems wity too much volume.
> 
> ...


Cozoy takt pro


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Been listening to the DQSM PANDA PK2s for a long time now and decide to write a review cause I love them alot!

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/dqsm-z-w-panda-pk2s-earbuds.22910/reviews#review-19835

Whats your toughs about them? Wonder how it compare to Hck PK2....


----------



## seanc6441

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Been listening to the DQSM PANDA PK2s for a long time now and decide to write a review cause I love them alot!
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/dqsm-z-w-panda-pk2s-earbuds.22910/reviews#review-19835
> 
> Whats your toughs about them? Wonder how it compare to Hck PK2....


Smooth, detailed, slightly too dark which causes the midrange to sound a little muddy at times. Treble is abit too polite hence the darkness.

Excellent choice for pop music which is usually treble heavy, balances it out a lot.

They are good but I prefer the timbre and balance of the latest revision of the nicehck diy pk2, even if it is slightly more grainy in the mids and lacks some low end authority. The treble on the diy pk2 is beautiful.


----------



## waynes world (Feb 6, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Seems perfect for me since i’ll use spotify on ios which i believe uses 16/44, it’s half the size of the dragonfly and 15g weight... So if any device willbe ‘convenient’ it has to be this little guy!
> 
> sound gets very positive reception being slightly warm and well detail and separation is apparently very good with a wide soundstage... however there seems to be a high gain issue effecting sensitivie iems wity too much volume.
> 
> ...



I see you found one for sale. Seems like a decent price.

I'd consider the radsone earstudio for a bit more. I know you're not interested in it as a Bluetooth receiver (yet lol), but it can also be used as a USB dac, and it can be configured to use it's own battery (and therefore not drain your phone).


----------



## seanc6441

mochill said:


> Cozoy takt pro


thx! the issue raised about the soundstage may put me off but this is clearly a new upgrade but the price aint cheap.

Back to square one


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 6, 2018)

waynes world said:


> I see you found one for sale. Seems like a decent price.
> 
> I did and it was within my budget so I was intrigued
> 
> I'd consider the radsone earstudio for a bit more. I know you're not interested in it as a Bluetooth receiver (yet lol), but it can also be used as a USB dac, and it can be configured to use it's own battery (and therefore not drain your phone).


I’m only having to re visit this route because I had to cancel my order of the meizu pro 5 because the seller never shipped it or responded on ebay 

@silverfishla supports spotify? I’m almost resigned to buying a separate dac thar supports spotify by now


----------



## HungryPanda

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Been listening to the DQSM PANDA PK2s for a long time now and decide to write a review cause I love them alot!
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/dqsm-z-w-panda-pk2s-earbuds.22910/reviews#review-19835
> 
> Whats your toughs about them? Wonder how it compare to Hck PK2....


 I really like them too but it is these Willsound MK2's I cannot take out of my ears


----------



## mbwilson111

I hope that someone will either post or pm the name of the song that that contains the mysterious dog barking frequencies.  Did I miss a post?


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 6, 2018)

waynes world said:


> I see you found one for sale. Seems like a decent price.
> 
> I'd consider the radsone earstudio for a bit more. I know you're not interested in it as a Bluetooth receiver (yet lol), but it can also be used as a USB dac, and it can be configured to use it's own battery (and therefore not drain your phone).





mbwilson111 said:


> I hope that someone will either post or pm the name of the song that that contains the mysterious dog barking frequencies.  Did I miss a post?


‘Who let the dogs out?’ Is that the one? 

In all seriousness though I hope to hear the  ghost dog’s phantom bark too!


----------



## HungryPanda

Pink Floyd's Animals album track 2 "Dogs"


----------



## chinmie

@seanc6441  i like this so much after trying my friend's that i purchased one myself. 

It works well with phones, tablets, and my ipod. With this you can use higher volume settings so that you have background noise, resulting in more resolution and details heard. 

It will trigger the high gain setting on your V20 also. They don't work too well with my radsone, also not too great with high impedance buds, because the volume is not enough.


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> @seanc6441  i like this so much after trying my friend's that i purchased one myself.
> 
> It works well with phones, tablets, and my ipod. With this you can use higher volume settings so that you have background noise, resulting in more resolution and details heard.
> 
> It will trigger the high gain setting on your V20 also. They don't work too well with my radsone, also not too great with high impedance buds, because the volume is not enough.


Hey what is it exactly? Some kind of filter device or a dac? Any links to the product thanks.


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> Pink Floyd's Animals album track 2 "Dogs"


I listened to that for the first time yesterday... Never heard the album before until now! Great track and the album is very good overall.


----------



## mbwilson111

luckyeights said:


> there is a gap a dead space if you will. For instance there was as song where there is a dog barking in the background on my other earbuds but on the masya there is no sound what so ever no dog barking at all the frequencies simply never made it to either driver because it landed in the dead zone the space between where the cross over happens. This dead space alone made me not like the masya



Please share the name of the song...this is driving me crazy.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Hey what is it exactly? Some kind of filter device or a dac? Any links to the product thanks.



shoot, forgot to type name 
it's the IFI Ear Buddy https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/ear-buddy/


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> shoot, forgot to type name
> it's the IFI Ear Buddy https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/ear-buddy/


Pretty interesting except the -16db may be too much considering I have to apply 75-80% volume in some instances to get a moderately loud or ideal listening level through my iphone.

But this little device seems handy for any source so I may grab one anyway because it’s a cool idea.


----------



## ClieOS

If you like the idea of Ear Buddy, then you can consider getting the IEMatch instead (which the Ear Buddy is based from). IEMatch comes with selectable -12dB and -24dB setting, so it can work on a wider range of source.


----------



## calico88

where can I find top 5 earbuds on aliexpress with 2.5mm jack ( balance) ?
or recommend ?


----------



## DBaldock9

calico88 said:


> where can I find top 5 earbuds on aliexpress with 2.5mm jack ( balance) ?
> or recommend ?



In the sub-$120 range, I really like my K's 500, VE Asura 2.0, ToneKing MusicMaker TO200, and the OurArt Ti7.  The ToneKing & OurArt have MMCX connectors, so pick your own cable.

One that's been getting really good reviews here, but that I haven't heard, is the Penon BS1 Official, which is available from Penon, but not on their AliExpress store.
You have to go to their site - https://penon-official.com/product/bs1-official-version/


----------



## seanc6441

Shozk bk can also be purchased in 2.5mm balanced.


----------



## jrazmar

And the balanced BK is considered among there with the Champions by Master ClieOS.


----------



## zeta555

calico88 said:


> where can I find top 5 earbuds on aliexpress with 2.5mm jack ( balance) ?
> or recommend ?


shozy bk, liebesleid, poseidon, and bs1 are all available with 2.5mm jack

most other small builder earbuds are avaiable too. just need to tell them when ordering


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 7, 2018)

jrazmar said:


> And the balanced BK is considered among there with the Champions by Master ClieOS.


Probably depends more on the source than the earbud though right? Like a source with a good balanced out or one with a good SE out. Maybe I’m wrong though.

Not sure if the BK is inherently better in balanced or se other than how capable the source is for each output.


----------



## jrazmar

seanc6441 said:


> Probably depends more on the source than the earbud though right? Like a source with a good balanced out or one with a good SE out. Maybe I’m wrong though.
> 
> Not sure if the BK is inherently better in balanced or se other than how capable the source is for each output.



In this respect, I think the best way to measure which among the earbuds sit there on the top end of the hierarchy is to use the same DAP or source in testing the sound capabilities of all these contenders may it be in balanced or single ended mode under the same condition.


----------



## capnjack

mbwilson111 said:


> I hope that someone will either post or pm the name of the song that that contains the mysterious dog barking frequencies.  Did I miss a post?



Pet Shop Boys - Suburbia?


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> Probably depends more on the source than the earbud though right? Like a source with a good balanced out or one with a good SE out. Maybe I’m wrong though.
> 
> Not sure if the BK is inherently better in balanced or se other than how capable the source is for each output.



Avoid anything from A&K and Sony and you should be mostly fine. Chinese DAP might not get the UI as smooth and refined, their headphone-out however are generally solid. My main source are mostly FiiO, and they usually design both the balanced as well as single-ended output to be fairly equal.


----------



## j4100

HungryPanda said:


> Pink Floyd's Animals album track 2 "Dogs"



Or Seamus (Meddle)


----------



## kurtextrem

ClieOS said:


> My initial BS-1 impression puts it more as a decently neutral but tilting towards a mid centric sound, though I am still need to burn it in further and give it more listening before making up my mind.


What do you think about the soundstage? I find it wider than Shozy BK.
Which earbud is the one with the best sound + widest/3D soundstage for you?


----------



## chaiyuta

I ever tried FiiO X3 iii, 2.5 BL out is way better than 3.5 SE. Sony and A&K is not bad especially AK380 or SP1000 but it is just not my cup of tea in term of budget.


----------



## ClieOS

kurtextrem said:


> What do you think about the soundstage? I find it wider than Shozy BK.
> Which earbud is the one with the best sound + widest/3D soundstage for you?



Have to get back to your question in a couple of days as I am oversea right now and left the BS-1 back home for burn-in.

However, I can tell you right now the widest soundstage belongs to Mojito. Nothing comes close.


----------



## j4100

Wow! The Willsound Mk2 sure deserve the positive impressions they have been getting. Pleased I got these, the music just keeps on flowing.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

seanc6441 said:


> Smooth, detailed, slightly too dark which causes the midrange to sound a little muddy at times. Treble is abit too polite hence the darkness.
> 
> Excellent choice for pop music which is usually treble heavy, balances it out a lot.
> 
> They are good but I prefer the timbre and balance of the latest revision of the nicehck diy pk2, even if it is slightly more grainy in the mids and lacks some low end authority. The treble on the diy pk2 is beautiful.



Always interesting to read about others sound impressions, did not try the DIY PK2, but first thing that really excited me about Panda is the SMALL shell, wich even without foam do not fall from my ears. Don't find midrange mouddy, quite fowards in fact, compared to Moondrop Nameless they are qui in-your-face. My only problem is about soundstage, not the most immersive. And yeah, I like to use audio source with great treble extension with the Panda, like the Ibasso DX90 or Faudio FA1. Anyway, a keeper for sure, cannot say that for half earbuds I own so I'm happy happy!

Any suggestions of earbuds using same shell but with real wide deep airy soundstage?? (perhaps its impossible with such a ''inner'' shell)


----------



## seanc6441

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Always interesting to read about others sound impressions, did not try the DIY PK2, but first thing that really excited me about Panda is the SMALL shell, wich even without foam do not fall from my ears. Don't find midrange mouddy, quite fowards in fact, compared to Moondrop Nameless they are qui in-your-face. My only problem is about soundstage, not the most immersive. And yeah, I like to use audio source with great treble extension with the Panda, like the Ibasso DX90 or Faudio FA1. Anyway, a keeper for sure, cannot say that for half earbuds I own so I'm happy happy!
> 
> Any suggestions of earbuds using same shell but with real wide deep airy soundstage?? (perhaps its impossible with such a ''inner'' shell)


Well it is forward sounding but compared to my other buds it’s a little more dull or overly smooth on the midrange and treble detail (maybe muddy is the wrong term) so it comes across as lacking some sparkle and air.

Compared to the panda? shozy bk is airy, deeper, more immersive soundstage and imaging. BK isn’t wide or deep compared to some leading totl earbuds for soundstage but it’s sufficient and compared to the panda which I found more ‘in your ear’ type of presentation the bk is intimate but ‘around your ear.

If you’re not willing to spend $150 on a whim lol, try out the diy pk2, it’s admittedly less smooth but packs more detail, air and a better imaging and soundstage presentation and gives you a small hint of the shozy bk sound without the TOTL quality and without the bass impact.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

seanc6441 said:


> Well it is forward sounding but compared to my other buds it’s a little more dull or overly smooth on the midrange and treble detail (maybe muddy is the wrong term) so it comes across as lacking some sparkle and air.
> 
> Compared to the panda? shozy bk is airy, deeper, more immersive soundstage and imaging. BK isn’t wide or deep compared to some leading totl earbuds for soundstage but it’s sufficient and compared to the panda which I found more ‘in your ear’ type of presentation the bk is intimate but ‘around your ear.
> 
> If you’re not willing to spend $150 on a whim lol, try out the diy pk2, it’s admittedly less smooth but packs more detail, air and a better imaging and soundstage presentation and gives you a small hint of the shozy bk sound without the TOTL quality and without the bass impact.



Thanks mate,
hum, well...a second PK thing not sure haha but perhaps (its just a name so...) and they look quite similar so will put it on wish list

DId you try Moondrop Nameless? Remind me a little of Mrz Tomahawk in term of airy soundstage, like: your in WIDE earbuds fo'real! But something strange happen with my left earbud and create distortion wich kill the fun fast...hope it will heal magically cause I wanna love them cause of there refreshing soundstage!


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 7, 2018)

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Thanks mate,
> hum, well...a second PK thing not sure haha but perhaps (its just a name so...) and they look quite similar so will put it on wish list
> 
> DId you try Moondrop Nameless? Remind me a little of Mrz Tomahawk in term of airy soundstage, like: your in WIDE earbuds fo'real! But something strange happen with my left earbud and create distortion wich kill the fun fast...hope it will heal magically cause I wanna love them cause of there refreshing soundstage!


Tomahawk is abit different it was airy because it blasted you with treble and it had a metallic sound to it too. Probably not what you’d want for most genres except.. metal.

Never tried the nameless sorry, but it’s probably a better purchase than the pk2 if you already have the panda. Apparently it’s pretty neutral and balanced probably nice airy treble by the description.

If you really want an upgrade and amazing sound quality in the pk shell the shozy bk is the way to go.

The cygnus is great too just not for retail price anymore it’s outdone by the 90-100 earbuds for detail but it’s definitely an upgrade on the pk2/panda for overall coherent sound and a fun engaging signature. If you find a deal on one get it.

Or there is the kinera earbud which is supposed to be excellent if you can find one in the fs section. There’s a guy trying to sell it for £65 in UK but that’s very pricey and if you get one under $50 should be a good buy.

My recommendation is get the nameless for $16! and upgrade to BK if you want pk shell for comfort and premium sound quality.


----------



## golov17

https://www.samma3a.com/tech/en/earbud-lovers-fiio-releases-em3k-em3s/#


----------



## waynes world

Did a bunch of posts get deleted? Seems odd that there has been one post in the last 18 hours! Oh well, less to distract me (hmm, but better check out those fiio's though lol)


----------



## bonson

New fiio seems to be cosmetic change only. Shiny surface and remote.


----------



## j4100

waynes world said:


> Did a bunch of posts get deleted? Seems odd that there has been one post in the last 18 hours! Oh well, less to distract me (hmm, but better check out those fiio's though lol)



No, it just been deadly quiet. Everyone is just listening to their earbuds


----------



## ctaxxxx

j4100 said:


> No, it just been deadly quiet. Everyone is just listening to their earbuds



Can confirm. Listening to earbuds at this very moment.


----------



## teesui

j4100 said:


> No, it just been deadly quiet. Everyone is just listening to their earbuds



As am I!


----------



## Danneq

"All quiet on the earbud front"


----------



## thebentern

A pair of Seahf AWK-F32T buds came in the mail earlier this week so I've been using them as my daily driver. I'm really enjoying them so far. Crisp detailed highs...


----------



## vladstef

Waiting for Seahf AWK-F150C. Very excited for the bass and sound stage, I have high expectations.


----------



## Saoshyant

Started up Dark Side of the Moon with Raven Mk 2.  I know people have asked for a couple comparisons, and I apologize for delays.  Busy with work and family issues, but will try to get to them when I have a little more free time.


----------



## thebentern

vladstef said:


> Waiting for Seahf AWK-F150C. Very excited for the bass and sound stage, I have high expectations.



I want to try one of the Seahf 64 ohms at some point. I suspect they are probably pretty similar to the Faaeal 64 ohm.


----------



## skaktuss

Which earbuds have the best "small size - sound quality" ratio? I have mx500 size buds, but they are too large for me - fall out when I tilt my head horizontaly. PK2 is OK, but I have a feeling, that my ears would love even a smaller shell size because after some time an ear part named helicys crus starts to hurt. 
I've read that Masya is smaller, but has some mixed opinions about weight distribution and fit overall. What other options are there? How small is Ting?
 I'm looking for detailed signature and wide stage btw (another metalhead).


----------



## waynes world (Feb 8, 2018)

skaktuss said:


> Which earbuds have the best "small size - sound quality" ratio? I have mx500 size buds, but they are too large for me - fall out when I tilt my head horizontaly. PK2 is OK, but I have a feeling, that my ears would love even a smaller shell size because after some time an ear part named helicys crus starts to hurt.
> I've read that Masya is smaller, but has some mixed opinions about weight distribution and fit overall. What other options are there? How small is Ting?
> I'm looking for detailed signature and wide stage btw (another metalhead).



Monk lite 120ohm . This is based on 60 seconds of listening to the ones I just received 

Edit: Oops, I see that you don't mention a budget, so these are only good (actually, amazing) if you only want to spend less then $10 lol


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 8, 2018)

skaktuss said:


> Which earbuds have the best "small size - sound quality" ratio? I have mx500 size buds, but they are too large for me - fall out when I tilt my head horizontaly. PK2 is OK, but I have a feeling, that my ears would love even a smaller shell size because after some time an ear part named helicys crus starts to hurt.
> I've read that Masya is smaller, but has some mixed opinions about weight distribution and fit overall. What other options are there? How small is Ting?
> I'm looking for detailed signature and wide stage btw (another metalhead).


Auglamour RX1 is very small but not suited to metal sadly. Not sure with other options there are but someone may have other suggestions for metal.

As you gave good details about where it’s actually effecting your ear I’ll say that in my experience the earbud is supposed to rest against that part and almost every earbud will be large enough to do so. What you may be looking for is a thinner design that doesn’t put pressure on that part and rests very lightly against the ear.

Designs like the Masya would fit this criteria. Of course if you are indeed looking for a smaller diameter shell and are willing to spend some money check reviews of the Moondrop liebsleid, K’s Ling (there’s a few variants of this), K’s Posiedon, Toneking ROS1 (more budget friendly).


----------



## chinmie (Feb 8, 2018)

skaktuss said:


> Which earbuds have the best "small size - sound quality" ratio? I have mx500 size buds, but they are too large for me - fall out when I tilt my head horizontaly. PK2 is OK, but I have a feeling, that my ears would love even a smaller shell size because after some time an ear part named helicys crus starts to hurt.
> I've read that Masya is smaller, but has some mixed opinions about weight distribution and fit overall. What other options are there? How small is Ting?
> I'm looking for detailed signature and wide stage btw (another metalhead).



compared to yuin shells(PK2)
Toneking's (tomahawk, ting, ros, etc) are about on par (might be slightly bigger)
Moondrop's (vx prop liebesleid, though i haven't tried the nameless) are smaller
RX-1 is smaller
Qian39 (and also the same shelled Monk lites) also smaller or on par

do you use foams with the mx500 or PK2?


----------



## waynes world

waynes world said:


> Monk lite 120ohm . This is based on 60 seconds of listening to the ones I just received



Ok, the monk lite 120's are definitely Radiohead OKNOTOK (and Paranoid Android) approved! Very nice.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 8, 2018)

skaktuss said:


> Which earbuds have the best "small size - sound quality" ratio? I have mx500 size buds, but they are too large for me - fall out when I tilt my head horizontaly. PK2 is OK, but I have a feeling, that my ears would love even a smaller shell size because after some time an ear part named helicys crus starts to hurt.
> I've read that Masya is smaller, but has some mixed opinions about weight distribution and fit overall. What other options are there? How small is Ting?
> I'm looking for detailed signature and wide stage btw (another metalhead).


I’d check out the VX Pro although it’s considered a ‘classical specialist’ by ClieOS it apparently has a wide soundstage, detail and separation with a neutral signature, airy treble and AFAIK the bass is decently extended and has some quantity probably enough to make drums kick with the right foams.

The size would be nice for you and the build quality looks fantastic. It’s like 75$ maybe.

But try out the $10 monks first


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Ok, the monk lite 120's are definitely Radiohead OKNOTOK (and Paranoid Android) approved! Very nice.



I like them.  They arrived on the 29th of January so I think mine won the race between ours...  9 days in transit. I have the 40 ohm ones also...those took 8 days.  Nothing has been getting enough ear time though as  the flu invaded our home       I also recently received the ROS1 and the Ting.   Have not had much time with them either except to make sure everything works and to give some burn in time to all.    New IEMs in the house as well.  A bit overwhelmed.  I think I most want to listen to the Monk Lite 120ohm again soon.    Small dap... Monk LItes... portablility.


----------



## seanc6441

@mbwilson111 sorry to hear that! Get well soon and hopefully you enjoy the new toys when you feel better and give us your opinions on em


----------



## chaiyuta

@skaktuss : Try VE Monk Lite or VE Zen Lite O.D. ~16.3-16.4 mm. if it's too big for you then Rose earbuds.



chaiyuta said:


> Agreed. Fitting should be measured rather than individual feeling. I always neglect on 'Fitting' review by many reviewers.
> 
> For your information as you might don't know yet, here is the rough summary of the O.D. of the front cover ordering from 'big' to 'small'.
> - Astrotec Lyra Shell = Larger than Typical MX500 Shell (I don't have measurement data)
> ...



P.S. "Search this thread" feature make my life easier.


----------



## thebentern

I have Monk Lite on the way to try out. I already have a Qian 39 body and I like the body, but I'm not at all a fan of the SQ.


----------



## Greutel

I want to buy me some Monk lites. What Impedance for iPhone 7+ and ThinkPad? What are the sonic differences between the different impedances?


----------



## seanc6441

Greutel said:


> I want to buy me some Monk lites. What Impedance for iPhone 7+ and ThinkPad? What are the sonic differences between the different impedances?


I bought the 120 ohm version apparently it’s got more low end and a less bright signature


----------



## thebentern

Greutel said:


> I want to buy me some Monk lites. What Impedance for iPhone 7+ and ThinkPad? What are the sonic differences between the different impedances?


Someone on Reddit had some notes on the different versions: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/7qxyqh/thoughts_on_the_ve_monk_lite_spc/dssqulb/


----------



## Greutel (Feb 9, 2018)

Thanks! I think since I’m from Europe my devices will put out only 0.4V, will this be enough for the 120Ohm ones?
Edit: I did the maths myself and it’ll be enough to damage my hearing.


----------



## Rendster

How do you know if it would damage your hearing? Any solution/computation?


----------



## waynes world (Feb 9, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I like them.  They arrived on the 29th of January so I think mine won the race between ours...  9 days in transit. I have the 40 ohm ones also...those took 8 days.  Nothing has been getting enough ear time though as  the flu invaded our home       I also recently received the ROS1 and the Ting.   Have not had much time with them either except to make sure everything works and to give some burn in time to all.    New IEMs in the house as well.  A bit overwhelmed.  I think I most want to listen to the Monk Lite 120ohm again soon.    Small dap... Monk LItes... portablility.



Ordered mine on Jan23 and received them on Feb9, so 16 days. Not sure why it felt like 30 days lol

Sorry to hear about your flu invasion. It seems to have been a particularly nasty flu season this year. I hope you are feeling better soon.

I am finding the monk like 120's to enjoy certain sources more than others. Or maybe they just really enjoying being amped. Running off of my laptop to zuperdac to either the cayin c5 or fiio e12 amps, they sound wonderful: full, dynamic, wide soundstage. But off of my xduuo x3 they sounded softer & flatter in comparison (I had been thinking that the x3 would push them along just fine). At the very least, I think that synergy may come into play with the 120's more than with my other buds (for instance, more than with the seahf 150's).

Edit: 120's sounding really great off of the Walnut V2 (burson v5i opamp). Some serious "Rush Moving Pictures" head bobbing going on at the moment


----------



## waynes world

thebentern said:


> Someone on Reddit had some notes on the different versions: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/7qxyqh/thoughts_on_the_ve_monk_lite_spc/dssqulb/



I'm not sure if I agree with everything I read there, but this rings true (regarding the 120's):



> The 120 ohm is fuller and more musical at higher volumes but is a bit thick at lower volumes, so everything kinda take a backseat. I definitely think the 40 ohm shine more at low volumes but these are nice when you just want to crank it and jam.



The "volume factor" might have come into play somewhat when I was using the X3 (ie listening at lower volumes generally), so I'll have to test that more.


----------



## Greutel (Feb 9, 2018)

Rendster said:


> How do you know if it would damage your hearing? Any solution/computation?



enter the properties of your headphone here: http://www.digizoid.com/headphones-power.html
to see how much power it will need.
Then you need measurements of your Source. The Iphone 7 dongle has 0.43V at 16 Ohm and 0.44V at 300 Ohm so it's safe to say that with the 120 Ohm it will be somewhere in between.
The 120 Ohms need 0.39V to achieve 115dB so it will be enough i think


----------



## seanc6441

Rendster said:


> How do you know if it would damage your hearing? Any solution/computation?


he means it will get painfully loud if pushed to 100%. Listening at normal volumes won’t have any negative effects don’t worry.


----------



## j4100

thebentern said:


> I have Monk Lite on the way to try out. I already have a Qian 39 body and I like the body, but I'm not at all a fan of the SQ.



Yeah, it's a nice size (Qian39), but a bit "lightweight" in the sound stakes. I sometimes use mine when listening to music before I go to sleep, as there's every chance they could get damaged after I fall asleep. I steer away from listening to more expensive buds at that time.


----------



## thebentern

j4100 said:


> Yeah, it's a nice size (Qian39), but a bit "lightweight" in the sound stakes. I sometimes use mine when listening to music before I go to sleep, as there's every chance they could get damaged after I fall asleep. I steer away from listening to more expensive buds at that time.



I wonder how much the sound would improve with a re-cabling. That stock wire is so thin. I may mod mine. I only use it for podcasts at this point and rarely that.


----------



## BIG666

What is the community opinion about the moondrop vx-j?
(I bought it accidentally)


----------



## chaiyuta

@BIG666 : From what I know. they should exactly same sound as normal version. VX-J provide different external shell shape. Look cooler than normal.


----------



## silverfishla

Not to be a sourpuss or anything but... I’ve been reading aheck of a lot of recommendations for buds based on “reading” reviews and not on actually owning them or having listened to them.  I say that that is a very slippery slope.  There are many shills out there flooding Facebook pages and review sites that trade good reviews for product or discounts.  So beware, don’t believe all the hype, because much of it is just that.  We’re supposed to be the ones keeping them honest, right?


----------



## Ceteru

BS1 Officials are waiting for me in my mailbox, 2.5 hours left at work... 

Time needs to pick up the pace


----------



## Ceteru

And here..we..go


----------



## vladstef

Ceteru said:


> And here..we..go



Beautiful. Except the chin slider which is ridiculously large and probably heavy, no idea what they were thinking.


----------



## Ceteru

vladstef said:


> Beautiful. Except the chin slider which is ridiculously large and probably heavy, no idea what they were thinking.


I'm actually finding that it's lighter weighted metal than it looks; I can only tell it's metal by how cold it is honestly.

In terms of sound...

Right out of the box, the Monk+ just got told to sit in the corner.

Fresh out of the package, first track played (Dreams by Fleetwood Mac) off of my AK Jr. and I already hear a small background vocal that I've never heard before, on the Monk+ or otherwise (the singer goes "Mmmm" to the tune of the song's main melody).

The soundstage is beautiful and expansive. I don't know if I'd call it "enveloping" (at least not yet) but it's definitely better than the Monk+.

At first I wasn't sure if the bass was better than the Monk+, but then I A/B'ed them and yeah, there's a difference.

Foams do seem to make a difference; I'm waiting on the ones @seanc6441 recommended from Aliexpress. 

Haven't tried them out of my O2 yet, that's coming up in a little while.

All told, it sounds very very good, but I can tell it needs to burn in a bit. I forget how long these are supposed to burn in for, but I'll probably do it over the weekend.

My favorite thing is when my wife put them in (the form factor fits her ears better than the MX500 shells), listened for a moment, said "These are good", listened some more, took them out and said earnestly "These are REALLY good; these are honestly like mini headphones in my opinion." 

Brb, trying Opeth on these


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 9, 2018)

Ceteru said:


> I'm actually finding that it's lighter weighted metal than it looks; I can only tell it's metal by how cold it is honestly.
> 
> In terms of sound...
> 
> ...


I bet they sound brilliant on the right gear, I mean they sound good coming off a iphone and are easy to drive but I can only imagine they scale better with a proper DAP.

Personally I’d be using them with something slightly warmer and with a strong bass/mids to really bring out the texture in these. I know they have it it’s just a little too polite If not pushed and they sound better on my laptop than my phone imo.

I’m glad you are enjoying it though! Now there will be no saving you from the TOTL earbud abyss!


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 9, 2018)

@Ceteru

Out of curiosity what foams are you using right now? I found benefits with every foam I tried which is unusual (some usually sound ‘right’ and others not so great to me).

The full foams work without adding too much bloat to the mids, they sound nicely full with the blue/red full foams.

The thin foams whether doubled or not sound more detailed/analytical. Almost as full but not a ‘wall of sound’ effect and more true to tonality of the driver and not splashy. Doubling them makes them sound as full as the full foams, minus the splashy wall of sound effect (because the sound gets through easier albeit through a thicker foam).

Donuts leave the sound very clean and not as full, tame the treble, allow enough bass impact. Sounds good for added clarity in music.

I’ve rotated between all three and cannot pick an outright favourite other than to say each will work nicely depending on your preference and what music you’re listening to!

One thing is for sure though, with the donuts and full foams the less dense more ‘see through’ ones are the best imo. You don’t have to sacrifice as much ‘vivid’ clarity for the same effect of the foam used.


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> I bet they sound brilliant on the right gear, I mean they sound good coming off a iphone and are easy to drive but I can only imagine they scale better with a proper DAP.
> 
> Personally I’d be using them with something slightly warmer and with a strong bass/mids to really bring out the texture in these. I know they have it it’s just a little too polite If not pushed and they sound better on my laptop than my phone imo.
> 
> I’m glad you are enjoying it though! Now there will is no saving you from the TOTL earbud abyss!


Yep, they sound good out of the AK Jr., but like I've said, I'm actually looking for something with a bit more power. I've been looking at a FiiO X3-iii for down the line, but it still has some notable bugs last I heard. I really like the look of the Hiby R6, but it's way outside my price range right now.

I plugged them into the O2 and they did clear up a bit. Listened to a variety of genres and the experience has been wonderful. Bass is clean and plentiful, vocals and instruments sound great, highs can actually get quite piercing which I didn't notice earlier. I actually like that because of the versatility it offers (a "can", not an "always will"). NOW they can get pretty enveloping, and like my wife said, they're just a little like having some headphones on.

Lol it's already started; I was explaining to a skeptical wife about the price and features of the CAX Black and I said "That may be something for down the line" 



seanc6441 said:


> @Ceteru
> 
> Out of curiosity what foams are you using right now? I found benefits with every foam I tried which is not usual (some usually sound ‘right’ and others not so great to me).
> 
> ...


Right now I'm just using the blue/red full foams.

My hope is to find some type of foams where I can be comfortable with the sound of most genres and just buy a big stock of those lol.


----------



## chinmie

silverfishla said:


> Not to be a sourpuss or anything but... I’ve been reading aheck of a lot of recommendations for buds based on “reading” reviews and not on actually owning them or having listened to them.  I say that that is a very slippery slope.  There are many shills out there flooding Facebook pages and review sites that trade good reviews for product or discounts.  So beware, don’t believe all the hype, because much of it is just that.  We’re supposed to be the ones keeping them honest, right?



I only give impressions on things that i already have, or at least have heard before. When reading reviews (or when a friend is sharing their reviews on things) i would find out his preference and the gears that he already have. Certain people i trust their reviews when they have a common conclusion about multiple things with me.

If not, i just jump to their comparisons, hopefully they compare it to something i know.




vladstef said:


> Beautiful. Except the chin slider which is ridiculously large and probably heavy, no idea what they were thinking.



Agreed.  that's one hell of a photogenic earbuds

I always put that cheap shirt clips on every earbuds/iems i have, right at the splitter. It eliminates unwieldy cable problems, and reduce a little bit of microphonics


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 9, 2018)

Ceteru said:


> Yep, they sound good out of the AK Jr., but like I've said, I'm actually looking for something with a bit more power. I've been looking at a FiiO X3-iii for down the line, but it still has some notable bugs last I heard. I really like the look of the Hiby R6, but it's way outside my price range right now.
> 
> I plugged them into the O2 and they did clear up a bit. Listened to a variety of genres and the experience has been wonderful. Bass is clean and plentiful, vocals and instruments sound great, highs can actually get quite piercing which I didn't notice earlier. I actually like that because of the versatility it offers (a "can", not an "always will"). NOW they can get pretty enveloping, and like my wife said, they're just a little like having some headphones on.
> 
> ...


Your best bet is a low density full foam or doubled thin foams. It’s the most balanced sound.

About the treble I think it’s smooth and slightly rolled (just slightly) but it’s definitely not under emphasised or anything. As you say once you get to a treble heavy track... It will sound treble heavy!

I think after this you will cave a buy the shozy bk and then you’ll truly experience euphoric mids and the definition of analog tuning 

But for now I’ll say the BS1 is swiss army knife and capable at most genres and can handle anything thrown at it from a technical point of view.

Listening to ‘Never going back again’ since you mentioned Dreams - Fleetwood Mac.

Holy Crap this song sounds incredible on this bud, so close to the edge on the treble but never gets harsh or sibilant. Great mastering of tge track and excellent smoothness of treble on bs1 combined make this so so good to listen to.


----------



## Ceteru (Feb 9, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Your best bet is a low density full foam or doubled thin foams. It’s the most balanced sound.
> 
> About the treble I think it’s smooth and slightly rolled (just slightly) but it’s definitely not under emphasised or anything. As you say once you get to a treble heavy track... It will sound treble heavy!
> 
> ...


Haha I just might. I've never felt the draw to have a bunch of headphones (a max of 4 if that much), but with earbuds I'm starting to because they're often easier to acquire, store, and use.

Yep, I've tried it with several genres including metal and it's more than capable. Keeps up with drumming just fine, treble isn't too sharp unless the song is, harsher vocals aren't distorted. Haven't tried it with more extreme stuff yet, but so far so good.

EDIT for your edit: I actually used to avoid listening to Fleetwood Mac because a lot of the hipsterish people around me kept raving about it, which naturally didn't invite me to listen to them. I heard a song analysis of the song Dreams and it changed my opinion right then and there.

Video here:  Worth the watch, I recommend it.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 9, 2018)

Ceteru said:


> Haha I just might. I've never felt the draw to have a bunch of headphones (a max of 4 if that much), but with earbuds I'm starting to because they're often easier to acquire, store, and use.
> 
> Yep, I've tried it with several genres including metal and it's more than capable. Keeps up with drumming just fine, treble isn't too sharp unless the song is, harsher vocals aren't distorted. Haven't tried it with more extreme stuff yet, but so far so good.
> 
> ...



My dad used to listen to their stuff probably before it was ‘cool’ but that’s what got my intrigued to give them a try. Great music and pretty much align with my tastes of alternative/progressive/psychedelic rock and just damn good music haha.

As for metal I’ve tried I really have but it’s just not for me... The drums are the part I enjoy though quick drum lines are very addictive but I can get that from some other genres without having to listen to the shouty vocals. Although I will say without the right gear metal sounds abismal but with the right setup it can sound much much better. It’s mostly how quick the bass decay and slam is and how the treble is handled. The tomahawk buds were memorable for metal but other earbuds would butcher it.

I may watch it tomorrow when I’m not half a sleep! I will check it out though.


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> My dad used to listen to their stuff probably before it was ‘cool’ but that’s what got my intrigued to give them a try. Great music and pretty much align with my tastes of alternative/progressive/psychedelic rock and just damn good music haha.
> 
> As for metal I’ve tried I really have but it’s just not for me... The drums are the part I enjoy though quick drum lines are very addictive but I can get that from some other genres without having to listen to the shouty vocals. Although I will say without the right gear metal sounds abismal but with the right setup it can sound much much better. It’s mostly how quick the bass decay and slam is and how the treble is handled. The tomahawk buds were memorable for metal but other earbuds would butcher it.
> 
> I may watch it tomorrow when I’m not half a sleep! I will check it out though.


Well metal is totally not for everyone, so it's understandable. Not all metal is shouty though, I mentioned Opeth before (not sure if you've ever listened to them). They're a very dynamic band (metal or prog-rock depending on whom you ask) whose music has a wide variety of styles. They have some shoutier songs, but a few particular albums are mainly just beautifully played prog-rock with a mix of clean and harsh vocals. Remind me tomorrow to link you a song or two that sounds really good on the BS1


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> I’m glad you are enjoying it though! Now there will be no saving you from the TOTL earbud abyss!



Whaaaaaat? The BS1's are supposed to be the ones sparing me from having to get "TOTL" buds!



Ceteru said:


> EDIT for your edit: I actually used to avoid listening to Fleetwood Mac because a lot of the hipsterish people around me kept raving about it, which naturally didn't invite me to listen to them. I heard a song analysis of the song Dreams and it changed my opinion right then and there.
> Video here:  Worth the watch, I recommend it.




That was a worthy watch! Thanks!


----------



## seanc6441

Ceteru said:


> Well metal is totally not for everyone, so it's understandable. Not all metal is shouty though, I mentioned Opeth before (not sure if you've ever listened to them). They're a very dynamic band (metal or prog-rock depending on whom you ask) whose music has a wide variety of styles. They have some shoutier songs, but a few particular albums are mainly just beautifully played prog-rock with a mix of clean and harsh vocals. Remind me tomorrow to link you a song or two that sounds really good on the BS1





waynes world said:


> Whaaaaaat? The BS1's are supposed to be the ones sparing me from having to get "TOTL" buds!
> 
> 
> 
> That was a worthy watch! Thanks!


No, we are all doomed.


----------



## kurtextrem

Yesterday I've A/B tested Shozy BK and Penon BS1 Official for gaming. In Rainbow Six Siege, Penon BS1 has the definitive upper hand in soundstage. When switching back to Shozy BK, it feels like the sound hits you from the face (and that is not the case, Shozy BK's soundstage is better than 95% of the earbuds I'd say)


----------



## vladstef

kurtextrem said:


> Yesterday I've A/B tested Shozy BK and Penon BS1 Official for gaming. In Rainbow Six Siege, Penon BS1 has the definitive upper hand in soundstage. When switching back to Shozy BK, it feels like the sound hits you from the face (and that is not the case, Shozy BK's soundstage is better than 95% of the earbuds I'd say)



I think it might have more to do with how they position sounds. Some headphones in general can have a solid sound stage potential but still position most instruments close to the center and only with particular sounds do they extend far to the sides.
I guess this is what word 'imaging' contains in itself - how the sounds fill in the sound stage that a headphone is capable of. Or even more precisely, if sound stage is filled with bubbles out of which sounds can come from, more bubbles along the line means better imaging and instrument placement, but these bubbles are also larger and smaller. Perhaps BK has larger 'bubbles' closer to the center while BS1's largest bubbles are more to the left-right.
All of this is just speculation on my part but I thought I might mention my reasoning because I've experienced similar things.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 10, 2018)

kurtextrem said:


> Yesterday I've A/B tested Shozy BK and Penon BS1 Official for gaming. In Rainbow Six Siege, Penon BS1 has the definitive upper hand in soundstage. When switching back to Shozy BK, it feels like the sound hits you from the face (and that is not the case, Shozy BK's soundstage is better than 95% of the earbuds I'd say)


I found the BK to position sound almost inside the head, or just around it but slightly in front yes. I actually liked this for music, for a relatively small stage the BK had excellent separation to make it work.

BS1 is more accurate for games and such, 3D soundstage, more depth for positioning of close/far sounds.

@vladstef I think the BS1 does a good job of accuracy in positioning. Most sounds seem like they are in the right location and only a few sounds are actually reaching to the edge of the soundstage. Compare this to the Masya where it’s obviously pushed out wider and more in front. It’s like listening to the music in a hall or large room which lends to the imaging being less accurate in my opinion, but the stage being more obviously spacious.


----------



## audio123

The soundstage of BS1 Official has a really natural expansion and the magnitude is great. The depth may be slightly closed in but vocals sound intimate and sweet. It displays great finesse too. These days, I use the BS1 Official more than my Masya.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 10, 2018)

audio123 said:


> The soundstage of BS1 Official has a really natural expansion and the magnitude is great. The depth may be slightly closed in but vocals sound intimate and sweet. It displays great finesse too. These days, I use the BS1 Official more than my Masya.


Definitely think the depth is ample and more than every other earbud I own. It naturally reaches far but portrays sounds as close or far as the imaging dictates.

Of all my earbuds these are the ones I feel  most like I’m missing out on their full potential with my lacking source. I’d love to hear these out of a mid/high end DAP to see what these really can do when asked to push more detail and be more technically proficient.


----------



## liquidrats

seanc6441 said:


> Definitely think the depth is ample and more than every other earbud I own. It naturally reaches far but portrays sounds as close or far as the imaging dictates.
> 
> Of all my earbuds these are the ones I feel  most like I’m missing out on their full potential with my lacking source. I’d love to hear these out of a mid/high end DAP to see what these really can do when asked to push more detail and be more technically proficient.


I use it with m3s and the low freq is very rich together with the mids being thick .


----------



## audio123

seanc6441 said:


> Definitely think the depth is ample and more than every other earbud I own. It naturally reaches far but portrays sounds as close or far as the imaging dictates.
> 
> Of all my earbuds these are the ones I feel  most like I’m missing out on their full potential with my lacking source. I’d love to hear these out of a mid/high end DAP to see what these really can do when asked to push more detail and be more technically proficient.


The BS1 Official performs exceptionally well with my iBasso DX200 (AMP 1). It improves the top end significantly.


----------



## Narayan23

BIG666 said:


> What is the community opinion about the moondrop vx-j?
> (I bought it accidentally)



You bought it accidentally? You know you are amongst your earbuds brethren here don´t you? No need to hide the truth, compulsive buying is par for the course 
That being said I might borrow your "I bought it accidentally" line next time I have to face the Grand Jury aka my family for my subreptitious activities.


----------



## RodRevenge

Ceteru said:


> Well metal is totally not for everyone, so it's understandable. Not all metal is shouty though, I mentioned Opeth before (not sure if you've ever listened to them). They're a very dynamic band (metal or prog-rock depending on whom you ask) whose music has a wide variety of styles. They have some shoutier songs, but a few particular albums are mainly just beautifully played prog-rock with a mix of clean and harsh vocals. Remind me tomorrow to link you a song or two that sounds really good on the BS1


Interested in which bud ares your favorite for Opeth, they are one of my most if not the most listened bands.


----------



## chinmie

Finally able to compare these two. My conclusion: I'll skip the BS1


----------



## HungryPanda

The WillSound MK2 has a really nice sound stage


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> Finally able to compare these two. My conclusion: I'll skip the BS1


You don’t like it’s sound or just that the Liebsleid is better? Because I’m not surprised that the $290 earbud outperforms the $99 earbud


----------



## zeta555

hey guys, out of nowhere my friend (non audio savvy person) said her earbuds cable sleeving is broken. i asked her what buds it is and ask her to send the pic. and it's a mx985...
so i asked her for it, and she gave me!

now my question is, what good cables are there to recable the senn? i got told by a friend here that it can't be too big. anyone with past experience here?


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> You don’t like it’s sound or just that the Liebsleid is better? Because I’m not surprised that the $290 earbud outperforms the $99 earbud



the BS1 done most things great (nice bass and treblee xtension, great soundstage, good SQ, good looks) but there's something off about them that makes me think they are not for me. they seem to lack..punch..

there's some earbuds that have smooth and laid-back manners like this that i still like, but the BS1.. when i listened to them, i ended up looking at the TV rather than being urged to close my eyes to enjoy them. it's just sounded unexciting to me overall.

i did focus to compare them because they seems to share the same "TOTL" level, but the truth is i even compared it to my **** PT15 and recabled Sharp MD, and ended enjoying them more.

this is similar when i had the TY650. No denying it is a great bud (some people like them very much), but it's just missing something that makes it not for me.

concerning whether they are TOTL or not, well at least to me they are at Masya level. i would still rate the K's samsara and BK have a higher.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 10, 2018)

zeta555 said:


> hey guys, out of nowhere my friend (non audio savvy person) said her earbuds cable sleeving is broken. i asked her what buds it is and ask her to send the pic. and it's a mx985...
> so i asked her for it, and she gave me!
> 
> now my question is, what good cables are there to recable the senn? i got told by a friend here that it can't be too big. anyone with past experience here?


Wow... That’s nice! Need the cable experts in here for that 


chinmie said:


> the BS1 done most things great (nice bass and treblee xtension, great soundstage, good SQ, good looks) but there's something off about them that makes me think they are not for me. they seem to lack..punch..
> 
> there's some earbuds that have smooth and laid-back manners like this that i still like, but the BS1.. when i listened to them, i ended up looking at the TV rather than being urged to close my eyes to enjoy them. it's just sounded unexciting to me overall.
> 
> ...


That’s understandable whether it’s a pairing with your source and/or just personal preference sometimes earbuds can be good quality but not right for your preference.

You’ll have no issue reselling it if needed I think, it looks amazing and gets mostly great reviews.

Can I ask did you pair it with your earstudio or a different source, I wonder what the signature or characteristics are, I’d be looking for a source with good extension and a warmer tonality to liven these up, but it’s always more complicated than that some pairings just clicks others are not so great.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Can I ask did you pair it with your earstudio or a different source, I wonder what the signature or characteristics are, I’d be looking for a source with good extension and a warmer tonality to liven these up, but it’s always more complicated than that some pairings just clicks others are not so great.



Good question.



Ceteru said:


> Well metal is totally not for everyone, so it's understandable. Not all metal is shouty though, I mentioned Opeth before (not sure if you've ever listened to them). They're a very dynamic band (metal or prog-rock depending on whom you ask) whose music has a wide variety of styles. They have some shoutier songs, but a few particular albums are mainly just beautifully played prog-rock with a mix of clean and harsh vocals. Remind me tomorrow to link you a song or two that sounds really good on the BS1



Although I'm not hugely into metal, Opeth is rather awesome. Found another progressive metal band from the "Prog" thread called Green Carnation. Quite liking them as well:



Spoiler: Green Carnation - Light Of Day, Day Of Darkness


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Wow... That’s nice! Need the cable experts in here for that
> 
> That’s understandable whether it’s a pairing with your source and/or just personal preference sometimes earbuds can be good quality but not right for your preference.
> 
> ...




No.. i could never resell it.. because it's not mine 
i borrowed them from my friend to see if i should purchase them or not.

i tried them with my earstudio, also direct from my tablet, and from my ipod classic. i haven't test using the earbuddy with the tablet and ipod. tomorrow morning I'll give more report on that

regarding about the recabled sharp md: i have two of the stock version, and one recabled (i also have stock vidos and a recabled one). i didn't recabled them myself, because i can't solder anything to even safe my life(and I'm lazy), so i just bought them from local modders, mainly because it looks cooler and stronger. i don't know if it's cable only or they also did dumping mods, but they definitely sound different, even my little boy can hear the difference.


----------



## j4100 (Feb 10, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> The WillSound MK2 has a really nice sound stage



I had a good listen to them twice last week and was amazed by some of the detail they were pulling out of the music I was playing and you're right, really good sound stage. Punching above their weight price-wise, I reckon. I noticed Adhi has the Mk3 on his site and an Edifer H180 mod called Bejo. Sorely tempted, despite telling myself to save it for end game buds.

http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone


----------



## silverfishla

zeta555 said:


> hey guys, out of nowhere my friend (non audio savvy person) said her earbuds cable sleeving is broken. i asked her what buds it is and ask her to send the pic. and it's a mx985...
> so i asked her for it, and she gave me!
> 
> now my question is, what good cables are there to recable the senn? i got told by a friend here that it can't be too big. anyone with past experience here?


I'll only help you if you give them back to her.


----------



## j4100

zeta555 said:


> hey guys, out of nowhere my friend (non audio savvy person) said her earbuds cable sleeving is broken. i asked her what buds it is and ask her to send the pic. and it's a mx985...
> so i asked her for it, and she gave me!
> 
> now my question is, what good cables are there to recable the senn? i got told by a friend here that it can't be too big. anyone with past experience here?



Did you give her some nice modern buds in exchange?


----------



## Marshal165456

PharaohsVizier said:


> Excellent work as usual. Sad to see that the PH10's didn't do as well as I hoped. Time to cancel an order.


Why mate?


----------



## zeta555

silverfishla said:


> I'll only help you if you give them back to her.





j4100 said:


> Did you give her some nice modern buds in exchange?



i told her to pick one from my earbuds collection but she said "no, i'm full wireless now" while showing me her airpods. nothing i can do there. lol


----------



## Ceteru

RodRevenge said:


> Interested in which bud ares your favorite for Opeth, they are one of my most if not the most listened bands.


Hello fellow Opeth fan  Haha well I don't have many to pick from at the moment  But while my Monk+ was decent for Opeth, they weren't as immersive or powerful as the BS1 Official are. I listened to Harvest (from Blackwater Park) last night before bed and the thrum of the guitars and the positioning of the instruments were awesome. What earbuds do you have now?




waynes world said:


> Although I'm not hugely into metal, Opeth is rather awesome. Found another progressive metal band from the "Prog" thread called Green Carnation.


They definitely are (as are Katatonia). I like that there's variety in their albums too so that whether you want mainly softer prog songs or harder metal songs they have an album to listen to. And of course it's still somewhat wintery where I am so the music fits the mood. I will check out your band recommendation shortly, thank you for that.


----------



## waynes world

Ceteru said:


> They definitely are (as are Katatonia). I like that there's variety in their albums too so that whether you want mainly softer prog songs or harder metal songs they have an album to listen to. And of course it's still somewhat wintery where I am so the music fits the mood. I will check out your band recommendation shortly, thank you for that.



Yes, give the album/video that I put into the spoiler a spin and let me know what you think. And I'll be checking out Katatonia


----------



## Ceteru

waynes world said:


> Yes, give the album/video that I put into the spoiler a spin and let me know what you think. And I'll be checking out Katatonia


If you want old school death metal start with their old stuff. I personally am not a fan of that stuff so I don't bother. Imo they got really good around Viva Emptiness onward, so I'd start there.


----------



## gazzington

So what are good buds for bands like opeth?


----------



## waynes world

gazzington said:


> So what are good buds for bands like opeth?



Whichever buds I currently have in my ears! j/k - someone else with better metal bud knowledge will need to jump in. But for my ears, Opeth + monk lite 120's are sounding pretty darned good.


----------



## Ceteru

waynes world said:


> gazzington said:
> 
> 
> > So what are good buds for bands like opeth?
> ...


Haha I know I only got them yesterday, but so far the BS1 Official are pretty good too. From a good source the music really shines (I've played it from my AK Jr., iBasso Dx50 and O2 Dac/Amp so far).


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 10, 2018)

gazzington said:


> So what are good buds for bands like opeth?


The Tomahawk is good for most types of metal, although the source pairing might be important to determine whether it sounds cold/piercing high’s or neutral and extended.

For the source I recommend something warm and smooth. In the right source it can sound excellent.


----------



## Saoshyant

I must be a rarity finding the MX985 a bit boring after really getting into earbuds.  I'm not sure I've used mine in the past year or so.  There's nothing I find engaging about it's sound.


----------



## RodRevenge

Ceteru said:


> Hello fellow Opeth fan  Haha well I don't have many to pick from at the moment  But while my Monk+ was decent for Opeth, they weren't as immersive or powerful as the BS1 Official are. I listened to Harvest (from Blackwater Park) last night before bed and the thrum of the guitars and the positioning of the instruments were awesome. What earbuds do you have now?
> 
> 
> 
> They definitely are (as are Katatonia). I like that there's variety in their albums too so that whether you want mainly softer prog songs or harder metal songs they have an album to listen to. And of course it's still somewhat wintery where I am so the music fits the mood. I will check out your band recommendation shortly, thank you for that.


Not that much right now im in need of saving a little bit of money thats why im keeping myself away for the forum lol. From what i own, the seahf 64 are pretty good for metal, good energy on guitars, Funeral Portrait for example sounds amazing. stay away from the Graphenes, they are praised here and are good but not for metal, they sound thin and veiled.


----------



## chinmie

y


Saoshyant said:


> I must be a rarity finding the MX985 a bit boring after really getting into earbuds.  I'm not sure I've used mine in the past year or so.  There's nothing I find engaging about it's sound.



you're not the only one


----------



## audio123

Ceteru said:


> Haha I know I only got them yesterday, but so far the BS1 Official are pretty good too. From a good source the music really shines (I've played it from my AK Jr., iBasso Dx50 and O2 Dac/Amp so far).


For me, I find the BS1 Official benefits from a brighter sounding dap.


----------



## alpha421

(prefaced with IMO) Been listening to the BS1 for a few days and coming from the days of Yuin, earbuds have come a long way.  Hats off to Penon for producing a damn fine earbud with the best presentation and materials I've seen and owned among earbuds.  I haven't been keeping up with the pace of all the earbuds churning out, and most appears to be clones in one way or more to each other, but the BS1 really sets itself apart.  It's $99 price is a true bargain compared to what I paid for the PK1/OK1 back in the day.  Tonality wise, it reminds me of the PK2, but the BS1 is a huge upgrade on all accounts.

My other and only earbud is the BK and that is truly a special earbud.  It has much sweeter mids and more intimate stage over the BS1. Like many have described before, the BK is the closest thing to analog (vinyl and reel tape).  The BS1 spanks the BK in sound stage width, but for my taste the BK's sweet mid-range provides better stage depth and renders female vocals better.  However, when it comes to a large stage presentation like orchestra and live concert, the BS1 shines its magic.  

The BK and BS1 compliments each other near perfectly for me.  Sadly, my wife with a classical ear more or less took ownership of my beloved BK.

Finishing off with the BS1, I think a leather pouch instead of the velvet one would seal the packaging and presentation deal.  The metal clip doesn't really match, and I don't use it despite the significant weight difference between the BK as I wear the BS1 inverted and loop the cable over my ears.  

Well done Shozy and Penon - well done.


----------



## euge

theoutsider said:


> Hifi Boy Dream, an instant favorite.



How are these?


----------



## siderak

My 300ohm silver cable blurs just keep getting better. I’m still amazed by the clarity. The sound continues to unfold, especially in the low end. Such a pleasure to listen to. 
I’m so glad I stuck with them. 
I think I’m gonna have to go for the silver shells soon...


----------



## chaiyuta

zeta555 said:


> hey guys, out of nowhere my friend (non audio savvy person) said her earbuds cable sleeving is broken. i asked her what buds it is and ask her to send the pic. and it's a mx985...
> so i asked her for it, and she gave me!
> 
> now my question is, what good cables are there to recable the senn? i got told by a friend here that it can't be too big. anyone with past experience here?



I've seen many people (foreigners included) sent their mx985 to B Rabbit Shop for mod. You might check their photos. There are plenty of mx985 mod works using GPS, GPC, Pure Silver or SPC cables.


----------



## rymd

Saoshyant said:


> I must be a rarity finding the MX985 a bit boring after really getting into earbuds.  I'm not sure I've used mine in the past year or so.  There's nothing I find engaging about it's sound.



You're not the only one +2. I've also not touched my OMX980 in ages. Next time will probably be when I sell it to whoever would want it nowadays..


----------



## zeta555

chaiyuta said:


> I've seen many people (foreigners included) sent their mx985 to B Rabbit Shop for mod. You might check their photos. There are plenty of mx985 mod works using GPS, GPC, Pure Silver or SPC cables.


i don't really want to send it overseas. maybe i'll just order some good, small OD cable and ask some local modders to recable it.


----------



## seanc6441

a


zeta555 said:


> i don't really want to send it overseas. maybe i'll just order some good, small OD cable and ask some local modders to recable it.


There’s a few nice looking cables on aliexpress from stores like nicehck from around $30-120. From copper to silver to gold. Some may be thin enough for your needs.

Although some caution might be advised if buying from spurious sellers. Nicehck seems pretty well recommend so maybe search his store first.


----------



## Narayan23

seanc6441 said:


> a
> 
> There’s a few nice looking cables on aliexpress from stores like nicehck from around $30-120. From copper to silver to gold. Some may be thin enough for your needs.
> 
> Although some caution might be advised if buying from spurious sellers. *Nicehck seems pretty well recommend* so maybe search his store first.



Jim´s a stand up guy, I recommend his store too.


----------



## mochill

Heavenly sounds have a new flagship earbuds for $40 looks great and description says deep bass and euphoric mids , gonna get it :-D


----------



## Majin

Can someone compare the emx500s to the graphenes mx760?


----------



## euge

mochill said:


> Heavenly sounds have a new flagship earbuds for $40 looks great and description says deep bass and euphoric mids , gonna get it :-D



Link?


----------



## RodRevenge

waynes world said:


> Whichever buds I currently have in my ears! j/k - someone else with better metal bud knowledge will need to jump in. But for my ears, Opeth + monk lite 120's are sounding pretty darned good.


Seeing you digging Opeth is great pal.


----------



## mochill

euge said:


> Link?


https://m.facebook.com/heavenlysoundsjkt/


----------



## theoutsider (Feb 12, 2018)

euge said:


> How are these?


I haven't given enough burn-in to the HIFIBOY dream. So far it sounded quite good (no real flaws) but it is not something that blew me away, but then again I do have many expensive headphones/ earphones that raised the bar high.

Also I can't say for sure if it competes well with other similarly priced earbuds, as I dont own Rose Masya, Shozy Cygnus or Penon BS1.

One thing I am sure of the HIFIBOY dream is that it is supremely comfortable. It is tiny and made of metal (not heavy). I haven't used it enough to say that it is more comfortable than my other Yuin shelled earbuds. The braided cable is great, I have never liked braided earphone cable but so far I have nothing against Hifiboy's cable.


----------



## kurtextrem

Can't wait for a HiFi Boy vs BS1 comparison.


----------



## j4100

mochill said:


> https://m.facebook.com/heavenlysoundsjkt/



Which ones? I have a package on the way from Heavenly Sounds. Great service. I was asked which colour of shell and to pick a cable type for the King Interlude. Also ordered the Genesis.


----------



## mochill

j4100 said:


> Which ones? I have a package on the way from Heavenly Sounds. Great service. I was asked which colour of shell and to pick a cable type for the King Interlude. Also ordered the Genesis.


You got the king  , the new flagship is called symphony


----------



## ctaxxxx

mochill said:


> Heavenly sounds have a new flagship earbuds for $40 looks great and description says deep bass and euphoric mids , gonna get it :-D



Huh, their flagship got even cheaper. They must be focusing on the budget crowd. I liked the bass on their last flagship.


----------



## theoutsider

I've uploaded a short unboxing video of Hifi Boy Dream earbuds.

I'm just starting out so the video quality is not quite up to par. Please bear with me, thanks a lot.


----------



## seanc6441

theoutsider said:


> I've uploaded a short unboxing video of Hifi Boy Dream earbuds.
> 
> I'm just starting out so the video quality is not quite up to par. Please bear with me, thanks a lot.



I like the cable a lot. Reminds me of the shozy bk cable which is my favourite cable on my earbuds so far.


----------



## Ceteru

Lorde's "Buzzcut Season" bumps quite nicely in the BS1s at work 

My HP-650s are coming in either today or tomorrow and I'll be comparing these two.. I doubt they're anywhere similar, but I'm interested in what both TOTL buds have to offer.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 12, 2018)

Oops


----------



## theoutsider (Feb 12, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> I like the cable a lot. Reminds me of the shozy bk cable which is my favourite cable on my earbuds so far.


The braiding method is different from that of CrossRoads HR1. The limited Candy Monk Plus has a similar braid to HR1. The braiding of HifiBoy Dream is thicker and sturdier. I think they all have the same simple twist braid after Y-splits but HifiBoy Dream has a more substantial chain-link braid at the lower half.


----------



## seanc6441

theoutsider said:


> The braiding method is different from that of CrossRoads HR1. The limited Candy Monk Plus has a similar braid to HR1. The braiding of HifiBoy Dream is thicker and sturdier. I think they all have the same simple twist braid after Y-splits but HifiBoy Dream has a more substantial chain-link braid at the lower half.


The bk had a very tight weave of I think 4 braid which allowed the braids to form a more solid single piece which looks similar in this case. Is that what you mean by substanial braid?

I do like this method of braiding more than the standard loosely braided method. Although the one downside is more memory on the wire in the case of the BK. But it’s a non issue in use I feel.


----------



## Ceteru

The HP-650 was delivered at home *rubs hands*.

As with last time, time needs to hurry itself up


----------



## theoutsider (Feb 12, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> The bk had a very tight weave of I think 4 braid which allowed the braids to form a more solid single piece which looks similar in this case. Is that what you mean by substanial braid?
> 
> I do like this method of braiding more than the standard loosely braided method. Although the one downside is more memory on the wire in the case of the BK. But it’s a non issue in use I feel.


Ya I think HifiBoy Dream has the same chain-link braid of Shozy BK. I don't have proper descriptions for braids cause I don't braid my hair. 

http://jyrab.blogspot.com/2016/01/the-ultimate-cable-braid-resource.html


----------



## seanc6441

theoutsider said:


> Ya I think HifiBoy Dream has the same chain-link braid of Shozy BK. I don't have proper descriptions for braids cause I don't braid my hair.
> 
> http://jyrab.blogspot.com/2016/01/the-ultimate-cable-braid-resource.html


----------



## theoutsider

seanc6441 said:


>


Thanks for the close-up picture, I think they are different. BK has nicer cable.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 12, 2018)

theoutsider said:


> Thanks for the close-up picture, I think they are different. BK has nicer cable.


I love the brown look and slight shine to it. Very classy and tbh the hifiboy cable looks great too. Good choice by them. Aligns perfectly with the matte black shell and even the shozy analog tuning. Has an old school cool look to it.

I actually prefer this cable aesthetically over the BS1 ‘silver/gold’ look. Although that cable is definitely a looker.


----------



## RuFrost

I have heard that Shozy BK has sharp highs and narrow soundstage. 
1) Is it true?
2) There is limited edition with silver cable (which has blue colour). Silver adds even more sharpness to the sound and dry bass quite audibly. If BK was already sharp, does silver makes it the king of sharpness? Make it even worse in other words, at least, for HighFrequency-fobs?

Any comments by the owners?


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 12, 2018)

RuFrost said:


> I have heard that Shozy BK has sharp highs and narrow soundstage.
> 1) Is it true?
> 2) There is limited edition with silver cable (which has blue colour). Silver adds even more sharpness to the sound and dry bass quite audibly. If BK was already sharp, does silver makes it the king of sharpness? Make it even worse in other words, at least, for HighFrequency-fobs?
> 
> Any comments by the owners?


It’s not that sharp at all. I found it slightly rough with thin monk foams because it is very revealing of detail. If you use the supplied donuts or regular donuts it should smoother, and with the regular donuts I personally find it very easy on the ears in all aspects.

Also I don’t find the soundstage particularly narrow, only not a large spacious stage overall. Width is in proportion to depth and height nicely with good imaging.

It’s narrower than earbuds like Rose Masya and Penon BS1 because it’s physically a smaller soundstage. But I never felt like the sound lacked width once I had them in my ears, they sound very natural and intimate.

For instance piercing high’s would be the DIY graphene or toneking tomahawk, the BK is smoother than those and more balanced than ‘bright’ snd sharp.

Even the Masya is brighter but smoother still. BK is by no means rough if you use the normal suggested foams, I think anyone treble sensitive doesn’t have to worry about this earbud so long as they don’t plan on using it foamless or with extremely thin foams.


----------



## RuFrost

seanc6441 said:


> It’s not that sharp at all. I found it slightly rough with thin monk foams because it is very revealing of detail. If you use the supplied donuts or regular donuts it should smoother, and with the regular donuts I personally find it very easy on the ears in all aspects.
> 
> Also I don’t find the soundstage particularly narrow, only not a large spacious stage overall. Width is in proportion to depth and height nicely with good imaging.
> 
> ...


I have tried many type of foams and hooks, but the best way to wear earbuds for me is thin VE foams (from VE pack) hookless. In this case there is a lots of air in the sound and openness, which iems lacks. Donuts cuts this type of experience. Other foams reduce clarity and microdetalization a lot. So if I buy BK, I would use them with thin foams (though, of course, I will try other foams and hooks; I just guess I will prefer them with thin foams). 
I own DIY graphene with thin foams using different sources from BB Q20 and laptop to fiio x7+alo rx or CV5 and never found them sharp or piercing at all. 

It is really interesting how experience of the same things can vary from the person to person.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 12, 2018)

RuFrost said:


> I have tried many type of foams and hooks, but the best way to wear earbuds for me is thin VE foams (from VE pack) hookless. In this case there is a lots of air in the sound and openness, which iems lacks. Donuts cuts this type of experience. Other foams reduce clarity and microdetalization a lot. So if I buy BK, I would use them with thin foams (though, of course, I will try other foams and hooks; I just guess I will prefer them with thin foams).
> I own DIY graphene with thin foams using different sources from BB Q20 and laptop to fiio x7+alo rx or CV5 and never found them sharp or piercing at all.
> 
> It is really interesting how experience of the same things can vary from the person to person.


If you don’t find the graphene’s with thin foams to be bright or piercing in treble then you’ll be fine with the shozy bk. Besides you can try the stock foams and regular donuts to see if you find it lacking air. I personally think only heigi thick donut was too ‘stuffy’ because it blocked too much air, but regular/stock donuts should be fine or thin donuts the best if you don’t mind the extra treble.

I think when reading about the bk treble it’s being compared to darker earbuds because it’s overall a balanced sound, I wouldn’t even classify it as particularly ‘bright’, only reveiling of detail and airy but with equal emphasis across the range for a linear tuning.

Also compared to the graphene’s which have a pretty weak midrange and bloomy mid bass, the shozy bk will sound incredibly natural and better controlled and more lush smooth and textured vocals.


----------



## Tweeters

Does Heavenly Sounds ship to the US? I'm having trouble working out how to actually buy their earbuds


----------



## groucho69

Tweeters said:


> Does Heavenly Sounds ship to the US? I'm having trouble working out how to actually buy their earbuds



From this page https://www.facebook.com/pg/heavenlysoundsjkt/shop/?ref=page_internal


----------



## waynes world

RuFrost said:


> I own DIY graphene with thin foams using different sources from BB Q20 and laptop to fiio x7+alo rx or CV5 and never found them sharp or piercing at all.



You beat me to it. Same here (fwiw, I use donuts on mine).



> It is really interesting how experience of the same things can vary from the person to person.



Yup!


----------



## Ceteru (Feb 12, 2018)

Only about 1 hour out of the box and the HP-650s have already lived up to their hype for me, and they're keepers for sure.

Not as immediately bassy as the BS1s, but they do have some clean, tight bass. Their overall tonality is pleasant and smooth, not fatiguing or sharp in the slightest. Soundstage is not monstrously wide but very very nicely so. The overall effect is that you are wearing some tiny HD-600s or -650s. The sound sig is very reminiscent of those full-size headphones.

If the BS1 is a strong whiskey that keeps up with you while you do something crazy, the HP-650s are a glass of aged Scotch you sip while you recline on a warm summer night.

I'm very glad I bought both these buds. The only thing that's bugging me right now is that the someone (seller or otherwise) "unwound" the cable leading to the buds above the Y-split. Pictures coming in an edit below:

  

Why would they do that? No earthly idea.

EDIT: According to the seller, that happens over time naturally.. that sounds plausible at least. @BloodyPenguin, you're one of the people ITT that I know owns these as well; has this happened to your pair?

The seller is also trying to tempt me by reminding me that they are selling some MX985 with only a week of usage for USD $450 + free shipping  Guys, someone who has been searching for that rarity for a while go buy it so I don't next month.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 12, 2018)

Ceteru said:


> Only about 1 hour out of the box and the HP-650s have already lived up to their hype for me, and they're keepers for sure.
> 
> Not as immediately bassy as the BS1s, but they do have some clean, tight bass. Their overall tonality is pleasant and smooth, not fatiguing or sharp in the slightest. Soundstage is not monstrously wide but very very nicely so. The overall effect is that you are wearing some tiny HD-600s or -650s. The sound sig is very reminiscent of those full-size headphones.
> 
> ...


Unless the guy desoldered the cables and unwound them I don’t see how he could have intentionally done that seeing as you cannot untwist/unbraid effectively any other way I think. More likely having them twisted in a bag or something has caused them to separate and memory is holding them that way.

Glad you’re liking both earbuds and that they are not too similar which would be boring!


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> Unless the guy desoldered the cables and unwound them I don’t see how he could have intentionally done that seeing as you cannot untwist/unbraid effectively any other way I think. More likely having them twisted in a bag or something has caused them to separate and memory is holding them that way.
> 
> Glad you’re liking both earbuds and that they are not too similar which would be boring!


Yeah, he said it happens over time since the cable is so loose and relaxed, and I could see that happening.

Sean I think you would actually like these quite a bit. Not enough to dethrone the BK, but I still think you'd like them.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 12, 2018)

Ceteru said:


> Yeah, he said it happens over time since the cable is so loose and relaxed, and I could see that happening.
> 
> Sean I think you would actually like these quite a bit. Not enough to dethrone the BK, but I still think you'd like them.


They sound down my alley in a way, except I won’t be purchasing anymore earbuds in this bracket seeing as I already own the BK/BS1 and Masya which are all around the same level, the bk being slightly ahead but more niche.

I only need two signatures in my collection to be honest. Neutral and extended with quick attack and clean detail... Natural and analog warmth with euphoric mids. That covers me really and the shozy bk handles the naturally warm and euphoric part. Although I wouldn’t say the bs1 is the neutral and extended I’m looking for, it’s inbetween, the masya too, both great but more all rounders than specifically what I want.

I like the description you gave though, is it U shaped signature? Balanced? Or slightly mid centric. I mean these buds have been around awhile but it’s no harm to ask 

No I have to save money for a proper source first, to get the most out of the earbuds I already own ^^


----------



## chinmie

Ceteru said:


> Only about 1 hour out of the box and the HP-650s have already lived up to their hype for me, and they're keepers for sure.
> 
> Not as immediately bassy as the BS1s, but they do have some clean, tight bass. Their overall tonality is pleasant and smooth, not fatiguing or sharp in the slightest. Soundstage is not monstrously wide but very very nicely so. The overall effect is that you are wearing some tiny HD-600s or -650s. The sound sig is very reminiscent of those full-size headphones.
> 
> ...



if you like the TY650, you might want check out the Seahf 650. it's more energetic and more aggressive TY650.


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> They sound down my alley in a way, except I won’t be purchasing anymore earbuds in this bracket seeing as I already own the BK/BS1 and Masya which are all around the same level, the bk being slightly ahead but more niche.
> 
> I like the description you gave though, is it U shaped signature? Balanced? Or slightly mid centric. I mean these buds have been around awhile but it’s no harm to ask
> 
> No I have to save money for a proper source first, to get the most out of the earbuds I already own ^^


Haha trust me, I wasn't suggesting you buy them; more like find a place/person to try them.

I'd honestly described them as pretty balanced. They don't over-emphasize any area too much but they reproduce everything quite well. A little bass emphasis and a bit of a cut to the treble (not making it inaccurate, but keeping things from being ear-piercing). I'm not the best at describing sound signatures though. I think "relaxed" is a good adjective, but far from sluggish.

That's smart; I would actually advise that. Do you have anything you're looking at in particular?



chinmie said:


> if you like the TY650, you might want check out the Seahf 650. it's more energetic and more aggressive TY650.



Lol you sir are trying to kill my wallet..


----------



## seanc6441

Ceteru said:


> Haha trust me, I wasn't suggesting you buy them; more like find a place/person to try them.
> 
> I'd honestly described them as pretty balanced. They don't over-emphasize any area too much but they reproduce everything quite well. A little bass emphasis and a bit of a cut to the treble (not making it inaccurate, but keeping things from being ear-piercing). I'm not the best at describing sound signatures though. I think "relaxed" is a good adjective, but far from sluggish.
> 
> ...


No I’ve been yoyoing between dac/amps for my phone, audiophile smartphones like LG v20 (not my style) and meizu pro 5 (had to get a refund seller never shipped on ebay!) and just buying a android DAP (for spotify).

I’m reluctantly being pushed towards the DAP option but I know i’ll probably appreciate it the most in the long run.

I want a reference/linear tuned DAP. Neutral or slightly warmer than neutral in tonality. It’s gotta have a wide soundstage, with decent depth and height after that. Imaging and separation too hopefully will be on point.

Most importantly it has to have a proper midrange and vocal impact and full bodied sound. Most of the sources I’ve heard left me wanting a better presentation of vocals and mids. Something full smooth and engaging in the mids would be ideal.

I know I’m asking for a lot but I don’t need everything to be perfect so long as it tries to follow that tuning which is probably seen more in expensive high end daps.

Most I see mentioned are either not tuned for flat/reference sound, preferencing U shaped extension which I don’t like, or being overly emphasised in bass or brightness of treble (reading reviews of quiet a few midrange DAPs).

Is there anything that sticks out to you or anyone, I prefer to let the earbuds decide the signature but I absolutely need midrange body and a wide soundstage to ‘help’ achieve what I think it the best sound out of these buds.


----------



## chinmie

Ceteru said:


> Haha trust me, I wasn't suggesting you buy them; more like find a place/person to try them.
> 
> I'd honestly described them as pretty balanced. They don't over-emphasize any area too much but they reproduce everything quite well. A little bass emphasis and a bit of a cut to the treble (not making it inaccurate, but keeping things from being ear-piercing). I'm not the best at describing sound signatures though. I think "relaxed" is a good adjective, but far from sluggish.
> 
> ...



forgive me, i never have any intention of killing your wallet... (just thinning it out a little )


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 12, 2018)

just realised you probably meant any earbuds that caught my eye... 

Yes the Cypherus Zoomfred definitely gets me a little excited ^^ but I need to save for a dap and not blow all my money on more earbuds atm lol.

Also the liebsleid looks beautiful and probably sounds it too. I’m definitely envious of liebsleid owners just a little bit  .


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> No I’ve been yoyoing between dac/amps for my phone, audiophile smartphones like LG v20 (not my style) and meizu pro 5 (had to get a refund seller never shipped on ebay!) and just buying a android DAP (for spotify).
> 
> I’m reluctantly being pushed towards the DAP option but I know i’ll probably appreciate it the most in the long run.
> 
> ...


That actually sounds like something I'd be interested in as well. I've mentioned a few times now that I'm looking for a new DAP, and your description is quite similar to what I'm looking for too.

What's your price range? That's a big determining factor of course.



chinmie said:


> forgive me, i never have any intention of killing your wallet... (just thinning it out a little )



Uhuhhhh 



seanc6441 said:


> just realised you probably meant any earbuds that caught my eye...
> 
> Yes the Cypherus Zoomfred definitely gets me a little excited ^^ but I need to save for a dap and not blow all my money on more earbuds atm lol.
> 
> Also the liebsleid looks beautiful and probably sounds it too.



No, I meant DAPs. 

Cypherus is supposed to make some good stuff. I think if I was ever definitively going for endgame I would just blow my money on a CAX Black.. But I don't need it..yet.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 12, 2018)

Ceteru said:


> That actually sounds like something I'd be interested in as well. I've mentioned a few times now that I'm looking for a new DAP, and your description is quite similar to what I'm looking for too.
> 
> What's your price range? That's a big determining factor of course.
> 
> ...


See that’s a good question. I don’t know how expensive I have to go because I haven’t had a DAP before! Maybe I’d be satisfied with a $200 DAP that suits my preferences, or maybe the description I gave will only be found in $400+ daps? It’s hard to tell.

A good start would be to pick a handful of daps recommended as the best choice or best value within a price range and narrow it down with reviews and such.

There’s two things for certain I need.

1) spotify compatibility - so it needs to run android most likely.

2) Reletively Slim/light. Think smartphone weight and size. I don’t wanna be lugging around a brick in my pocket!

Honestly of the two implementations of sabre dac (hifimediy sabre 9018) and (lg v20 Quad sabre 9028 I think) I was unimpressed by both how they seem to suck life and body out of the vocals favouring ‘sweet’ and ‘light’ over impactful and full textured. Also the treble had something weird going on. Might be the sabre glare I hear about idk.

I see detail and analytical nature in dacs get high praise over the presentation of the sound as in how full, dynamic and textured it is. I put overall detail second to how that detail is pushed by the source. You could all it musicality over analytical sound but most seem to associate musical with ‘coloured’, or non linear sound, which I do not enjoy.

I wish I just knew what dap i wanted now so I could just buy it and be happy... This is the curse of the audio world I guess, you have to experience it yourself to know how you feel about it.


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> See that’s a good question. I don’t know how expensive I have to go because I haven’t had a DAP before! Maybe I’d be satisfied with a $200 DAP that suits my preferences, or maybe the description I gave will only be found in $400+ daps? It’s hard to tell.
> 
> A good start would be to pick a handful of daps recommended as the best choice or best value within a price range and narrow it down with reviews and such.
> 
> ...


I understand the struggle my friend.

If you didn't need Android for Spotify, I would recommend a Shanling player for you. Fairly neutral and accurate but with some warmth to them. Something like the M2S would be the perfect size for you. But the only way you'd be getting Spotify on there is to stream it to the DAP from your phone.


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> See that’s a good question. I don’t know how expensive I have to go because I haven’t had a DAP before! Maybe I’d be satisfied with a $200 DAP that suits my preferences, or maybe the description I gave will only be found in $400+ daps? It’s hard to tell.
> 
> A good start would be to pick a handful of daps recommended as the best choice or best value within a price range and narrow it down with reviews and such.
> 
> ...


Here is a good thread for discussion of Android-based DAPs.  It was started for Tidal, but would apply to Spotify as well (minus the MQA).
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/portable-dap-for-tidal.797001/


----------



## seanc6441

Ceteru said:


> I understand the struggle my friend.
> 
> If you didn't need Android for Spotify, I would recommend a Shanling player for you. Fairly neutral and accurate but with some warmth to them. Something like the M2S would be the perfect size for you. But the only way you'd be getting Spotify on there is to stream it to the DAP from your phone.


Apparently Shanling housing tuning is U shaped? I read that somewhere but it may not apply to the whole range.


----------



## mochill

RuFrost said:


> I have heard that Shozy BK has sharp highs and narrow soundstage.
> 1) Is it true?
> 2) There is limited edition with silver cable (which has blue colour). Silver adds even more sharpness to the sound and dry bass quite audibly. If BK was already sharp, does silver makes it the king of sharpness? Make it even worse in other words, at least, for HighFrequency-fobs?
> 
> Any comments by the owners?


The shozy stardust limited edition is more extended without sharpness or peaks


----------



## mochill

groucho69 said:


> From this page https://www.facebook.com/pg/heavenlysoundsjkt/shop/?ref=page_internal


Send messages to joshua winsu and shipping is $20 for EMS and $10 for regular


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> Apparently Shanling housing tuning is U shaped? I read that somewhere but it may not apply to the whole range.


Here are lots of threads about Shanling Daps:
https://www.head-fi.org/sponsors/shanling/
Now, how about those earbuds?  Got the Zen Lites last weekend.  I don't have the regular Zen so can't compare, but so far am happy with them.  The soundstage is good, nice vocals (as expected from VE) and more bass than the Monk.  The shells are (to me) more comfortable than the larger Monk-sized shells.


----------



## seanc6441

doggiemom said:


> Here is a good thread for discussion of Android-based DAPs.  It was started for Tidal, but would apply to Spotify as well (minus the MQA).
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/portable-dap-for-tidal.797001/


Well that’s some depressing reading, apparently all these daps don’t play nicely with spotify/tidal one way or another. Most people complaining about them when smartphones can do it so easilys...

Madness considering how popular these streaming/DL services are today. DAP’s seem to be lagging behind.


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> Well that’s some depressing reading, apparently all these daps don’t play nicely with spotify/tidal one way or another. Most people complaining about them when smartphones can do it so easilys...
> 
> Madness considering how popular these streaming/DL services are today. DAP’s seem to be lagging behind.


This is probably your best bet at the moment: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/hiby-r6-worlds-most-advanced-android-hi-fi-player-music#/

Worst I've heard about it review-wise is that it's output can be a bit weak, but that was mainly for full-size headphones. With buds, you likely wouldn't have any issue.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 12, 2018)

Ceteru said:


> This is probably your best bet at the moment: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/hiby-r6-worlds-most-advanced-android-hi-fi-player-music#/
> 
> Worst I've heard about it review-wise is that it's output can be a bit weak, but that was mainly for full-size headphones. With buds, you likely wouldn't have any issue.



Sounds amazing tbh, I read a few pages and the sound impressions look excellent, except the part that mentions the possibility of noticeable change in tonality/signature for low impendance iems due to the output impendance being 10ohms?

Is this an issue for earbuds I wonder. Most of my earbuds at 16/32 ohm and the sound described for normal/high impendance is exactly what I’d be looking for but the sound described for the low impendance iems (in this case the campfire andromeda’s) seems to be less Ideal for my tastes(although it’d probably sound amazing in its own right).

Did you read that part yourself? Mentioning ‘Low Z’ as the annotation for this seemingly different sound signature and comparing it to normal impendance and above’s signature.


----------



## liquidrats

seanc6441 said:


> Well that’s some depressing reading, apparently all these daps don’t play nicely with spotify/tidal one way or another. Most people complaining about them when smartphones can do it so easilys...
> 
> Madness considering how popular these streaming/DL services are today. DAP’s seem to be lagging behind.


They do one thing best and not both very good, streaming/tidal/spotify requires a bit more of processing work on the processor/ram and the current offerings have specs to only do one thing at a time, it is not your typical android phone, heck it's even using an obsolete android version.


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> Sounds amazing tbh, I read a few pages and the sound impressions look excellent, except the part that mentions the possibility of noticeable change in tonality/signature for low impendance iems due to the output impendance being 10ohms?
> 
> Is this an issue for earbuds I wonder. Most of my earbuds at 16/32 ohm and the sound described for normal/high impendance is exactly what I’d be looking for but the sound described for the low impendance iems (in this case the campfire andromeda’s) seems to be less Ideal for my tastes(although it’d probably sound amazing in its own right).
> 
> Did you read that part yourself? Mentioning ‘Low Z’ as the annotation for this seemingly different sound signature and comparing it to normal impendance and above’s signature.


I did, and that (besides the price) is the only thing giving me any pause. However, if you give me a second, I'll be PM'ing you a link (for the thread's sake) to a review written on the unit yesterday that may put you a bit more at ease. I know it did me.


----------



## waynes world (Feb 12, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> See that’s a good question. I don’t know how expensive I have to go because I haven’t had a DAP before! Maybe I’d be satisfied with a $200 DAP that suits my preferences, or maybe the description I gave will only be found in $400+ daps? It’s hard to tell.
> 
> A good start would be to pick a handful of daps recommended as the best choice or best value within a price range and narrow it down with reviews and such.
> 
> ...



Radsone Earstudio - check! (well, spotify from your phone)



> Reletively Slim/light. Think smartphone weight and size. I don’t wanna be lugging around a brick in my pocket!



Radsone Earstudio - check!
$100 - check!
Balanced output - check!
14 hours on a charge - check!

Just teasing. I don't even have one, so I'm not sure why I continue to hype it to you. Well, I guess I do because I want one (even though I'm very happy with the Fiio BTR1). Edit: well that, and because I really do think that it might be exactly what you are looking for.


----------



## mochill

seanc6441 said:


> Well that’s some depressing reading, apparently all these daps don’t play nicely with spotify/tidal one way or another. Most people complaining about them when smartphones can do it so easilys...
> 
> Madness considering how popular these streaming/DL services are today. DAP’s seem to be lagging behind.


Hiby r3 coming after Chinese New year's


----------



## Danneq

Ceteru said:


> The seller is also trying to tempt me by reminding me that they are selling some MX985 with only a week of usage for USD $450 + free shipping  Guys, someone who has been searching for that rarity for a while go buy it so I don't next month.



Man, that's just a silly price!

I sold my pair of MX985 for around $150 with shipping included just last year. Do I remember correctly, @DJ The Rocket?

I would not pay over $200 excluding shipping for a pair of MX985. And I do like them a lot, just because they are so natural. I sold my pair since I've also got a pair of OMX980 (the earhook version of MX980). I never noticed any difference in sound between the 980 and 985 models...

About the TY HP650, I sold my pair after a year or so. I thought they were nice but mainly wanted to only go with low impedance earbuds. And HP650 reminded me of Cypherus CampFred (1) but with much less sub bass.


----------



## ClieOS

$150 for an used pair of MX985 is a pretty good sale price, as I recalled I only paid about USD110  (plus $20 forwarding) for mine from Amazon Japan back in 2013. Price never went up till people found out that it was discontinued unannounced.


----------



## zeta555

Danneq said:


> Man, that's just a silly price!
> 
> I sold my pair of MX985 for around $150 with shipping included just last year. Do I remember correctly, @DJ The Rocket?
> 
> ...



yup, it should only sell for $150-200 used. BNIB around $250


----------



## Saoshyant

Hmm, I'll keep those suggestions in mind then.


----------



## Ceteru

Thanks guys.. I kinda knew that was too pricy and I was being facetious, plus I would have asked around here before buying anything like that anyway.


----------



## chinmie

Ceteru said:


> Thanks guys.. I kinda knew that was too pricy and I was being facetious, plus I would have asked around here before buying anything like that anyway.



off topic, how's the isine 10 compared to the BS1 and the TY650? is it much better SQ-wise?


----------



## zeta555

one more to go, the poseidon is already in the country. hopefully this week it's in my hand
please excuse the mx985 cable, still researching which route should i go cable wise (silver/copper/hybrid).


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 13, 2018)

zeta555 said:


> one more to go, the poseidon is already in the country. hopefully this week it's in my hand
> please excuse the mx985 cable, still researching which route should i go cable wise (silver/copper/hybrid).


That’s a nice collection there. Are you liking them all? Any of them underwhelming or better than you expected?

Also what source are you using with them?


----------



## zeta555

seanc6441 said:


> That’s a nice collection there. Are you liking them all? Any of them underwhelming or better than you expected?
> 
> Also what source are you using with them?


i'm using the sony zx300. 

i like the liebesleid. especially for woman voice. 
the other two is still in their burn in stage, so i can't really comment on the sound. but i'm impressed with the BS1 build quality.

oh and i still need to reterminate all of them to balanced out. my dap SE output is crap compared to the balaced out.


----------



## seanc6441

zeta555 said:


> i'm using the sony zx300.
> 
> i like the liebesleid. especially for woman voice.
> the other two is still in their burn in stage, so i can't really comment on the sound. but i'm impressed with the BS1 build quality.
> ...


Ok I’ll await your impressions when they are ready, yeah I’m hoping the Cayin N5ii dap Ceteru recommended to me has a good SE output. I know in most cases the balanced output is better for its power and such but I hope the SE is still proficient enough.

Kinda awkward having to reterminate buds you buy in 3.5 when the 2.5 option was available just at the time I only have a 3.5 source^^


----------



## cocolinho

I'm looking for the best earbuds possible for bass & mids without compromising clarity , what would be your best reco under usd200?
I'm looking for something as close as possible to my  Fitear TG334
Thanks


----------



## Ceteru

chinmie said:


> off topic, how's the isine 10 compared to the BS1 and the TY650? is it much better SQ-wise?


Well I just tried the iSine10 last week since I hadn't for a few months; I'm missing an earhook though (I need to order some) so my seal wasn't so good. Therefore I have to go off my memory from the last time I had a good seal and that was a while back.

Compared to my new toys, the iSine is still going to be more spacious, as it's literally a tiny open-back planar headphone on your ear. Bass is still going to be better on the iSine10 (not by a huge margin though). Aside from that, I'm a little bit surprised to say that I kind of prefer my new buds at the moment. 

I know part of it is New Toy Syndrome, but the buds are more portable, and I'm getting 90-95% of the same performance from the iSines. Clarity and resolution are probably still better on the iSines but not enough for me to point at where from memory, I would need to A/B it right now. I'm not missing any isolation either (the iSines are pretty much as open as earbuds).

I'm really glad I decided to give earbuds another shot


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 13, 2018)

Ceteru said:


> Well I just tried the iSine10 last week since I hadn't for a few months; I'm missing an earhook though (I need to order some) so my seal wasn't so good. Therefore I have to go off my memory from the last time I had a good seal and that was a while back.
> 
> Compared to my new toys, the iSine is still going to be more spacious, as it's literally a tiny open-back planar headphone on your ear. Bass is still going to be better on the iSine10 (not by a huge margin though). Aside from that, I'm a little bit surprised to say that I kind of prefer my new buds at the moment.
> 
> ...



The isine seems a lot like the Rose Masya in terms of space and soundstage being open and airy. The Masya extends deeper and higher than the bs1 but I’m sure the planar bass extends more and without much roll off.

I heard the isine has tonality and frequency response issues without the cipher cable and that EQing is your friend to ‘fix’ the sound if you want a more linear response.

Although it’s cool to hear that these IEM’s, especially this supposedly planar superiority doesn’t wipe the floor with earbuds at $100.

It stands to reason then that the liebsleid/cax black/mojito etc have a chance against the isine 20 then too maybe 

Although probably not the LCD i4


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> The isine seems a lot like the Rose Masya in terms of space and soundstage being open and airy. The Masya extends deeper and higher than the bs1 but I’m sure the planar bass extends more and without much roll off.
> 
> I heard the isine has tonality and frequency response issues without the cipher cable and that EQing is your friend to ‘fix’ the sound if you want a more linear response.
> 
> ...


Yes, that was my reaction. I'm reaaaaally glad I didn't pay full price for the iSine10s


----------



## zeta555

seanc6441 said:


> Ok I’ll await your impressions when they are ready, yeah I’m hoping the Cayin N5ii dap Ceteru recommended to me has a good SE output. I know in most cases the balanced output is better for its power and such but I hope the SE is still proficient enough.
> 
> Kinda awkward having to reterminate buds you buy in 3.5 when the 2.5 option was available just at the time I only have a 3.5 source^^


i used to have the cayin n5ii. it's around the same price of the sony zx300 in my country. so i bought both to give them both a chance. end up selling the cayin.
can't really stand the buggy firmware and the awful screen. sound and build quality are solid though. and there may be new firmware since then.


----------



## seanc6441

zeta555 said:


> i used to have the cayin n5ii. it's around the same price of the sony zx300 in my country. so i bought both to give them both a chance. end up selling the cayin.
> can't really stand the buggy firmware and the awful screen. sound and build quality are solid though. and there may be new firmware since then.


I wouldn’t mind the screen to be honest, as long as the touch works relatively well and it’s easy to use with spotify I’m good.

The SQ is obviously more important and this dap seems to suit my preference so I think it’ll be my first serious audio source and hopefully last me a long time.

I don’t expect it to be as snappy or high quality in the UI as a smartphone but as long as it just works well enough and doesn’t  bug out with spotify I’ll be happy.

What kind of bugs do you mean? Was audio cutting out or something? I hope that’s not still the case with the latest version and I wonder if Cayin have good dev support for their software.


----------



## krunchcrispy

zeta555 said:


> i'm using the sony zx300.
> 
> i like the liebesleid. especially for woman voice.
> the other two is still in their burn in stage, so i can't really comment on the sound. but i'm impressed with the BS1 build quality.
> ...



Anyone have a link to a video showing how to reterminate earbuds ?  If I want balanced, can I reterminate or do I have to recable? Please re-direct me to a different thread if there is one on this topic.


----------



## j4100

zeta555 said:


> i used to have the cayin n5ii. it's around the same price of the sony zx300 in my country. so i bought both to give them both a chance. end up selling the cayin.
> can't really stand the buggy firmware and the awful screen. sound and build quality are solid though. and there may be new firmware since then.



Does Sony still use the same crap proprietary software for the DAPs that it did 15 years ago?


----------



## silverfishla

krunchcrispy said:


> Anyone have a link to a video showing how to reterminate earbuds ?  If I want balanced, can I reterminate or do I have to recable? Please re-direct me to a different thread if there is one on this topic.


You can try asking in this DIY earbuds thread.   https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/
Somebody very helpful also posted this link with the different termination wirings.  http://www.diyaudioblog.com/2016/02/headphone-connectors-pins-pinouts-for.html


----------



## krunchcrispy

silverfishla said:


> You can try asking in this DIY earbuds thread.   https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/
> Somebody very helpful also posted this link with the different termination wirings.  http://www.diyaudioblog.com/2016/02/headphone-connectors-pins-pinouts-for.html


Thanks. Helpful!


----------



## zeta555

seanc6441 said:


> I wouldn’t mind the screen to be honest, as long as the touch works relatively well and it’s easy to use with spotify I’m good.
> 
> The SQ is obviously more important and this dap seems to suit my preference so I think it’ll be my first serious audio source and hopefully last me a long time.
> 
> ...



Yeah,maybe i expected too much.
For bugs i mean like some crashing and freezing at random times. But your miles may vary, some people have no problem with it.



krunchcrispy said:


> Anyone have a link to a video showing how to reterminate earbuds ?  If I want balanced, can I reterminate or do I have to recable? Please re-direct me to a different thread if there is one on this topic.



I mostly pay someone to reterminate my cans. I can do it, but i prefer to let the pros do it.



j4100 said:


> Does Sony still use the same **** proprietary software for the DAPs that it did 15 years ago?



You mean PC software? You can drag and drop stuff to the dap now,if that's what you mean.


----------



## Thx1326

ricesteam said:


> I can't seem to find an answer, but wouldn't a 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter defeat the purpose of a 2.5mm earbud? That is, to enjoy a 2.5mm balanced earbud to its full potential, it's best to have a 2.5 source?


Question on the 2.5 balanced vs 3.5.... I have seen adapters that have a 2.5mm male with a 3.5mm female which supposedly allow you to run your 3.5mm as balanced?  Is this for real or snake oil?  Don't the headphones themselves have to have balanced circuitry?


----------



## golov17

http://e-earphone.blog/?p=1264353


----------



## Thx1326

ricesteam said:


> I can't seem to find an answer, but wouldn't a 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter defeat the purpose of a 2.5mm earbud? That is, to enjoy a 2.5mm balanced earbud to its full potential, it's best to have a 2.5 source?


Question on the 2.5 balanced vs 3.5.... I have seen adapters that have a 2.5mm male with a 3.5mm female which supposedly allow you to run your 3.5mm as balanced?  Is this for real or snake oil?  Don't the headphones themselves have to have balanced circuitry?


----------



## Thx1326

ClieOS said:


> No, I do mean both my BK and K's 500ohm are 2.5mm TRRS balanced.
> 
> BK only has 2.5mm balanced plug or 3.5mm singled ended. K's is however made to order.


Question on the 2.5 balanced vs 3.5.... I have seen adapters that have a 2.5mm male with a 3.5mm female which supposedly allow you to run your 3.5mm as balanced?  Is this for real or snake oil?  Don't the headphones themselves have to have balanced circuitry?


----------



## ClieOS (Feb 13, 2018)

Thx1326 said:


> Question on the 2.5 balanced vs 3.5.... I have seen adapters that have a 2.5mm male with a 3.5mm female which supposedly allow you to run your 3.5mm as balanced?  Is this for real or snake oil?  Don't the headphones themselves have to have balanced circuitry?



There is a balanced 3.5mm configuration (TRRS) that Hifiman used on their DAP and headphones. That particular adapter you saw is probably for converting Hifiman 3.5mm balanced headphone to 2.5mm balanced.

However, I do notice someone selling single-ended 3.5mm female (TRS) to balanced 2.5mm male adapter, and that's indeed snake oil - the worst part is that you will short circuit the balanced output on the source with this kind of 'fake' adapter and there is a (very small) chance that you might damage the chips inside.


----------



## j4100

zeta555 said:


> You mean PC software? You can drag and drop stuff to the dap now,if that's what you mean.



Yeah, thanks. I had previously used a tiny little mp3 player then bought a NW-HD6 which was great, apart from the Sonic Stage software, which was rubbish. I suppose things had to progress in the intervening years!

My Heavenly Sounds delivery arrived safely and are on the burn station, which means I'm only waiting on two deliveries and I can call a halt to my earbud purchasing for the meantime and just enjoy them.


----------



## mag8

I needed a new pair of buds after buying the Faaeal64 ohm a while ago, so I bought another Faaeal pair.

The new one is now called Iris 2.0 and the old one is renamed 1.0

Compared to the 1.0 it is less bassy but seems more natural. The cable is also thinner and feels better. The plug however seems to be inferior


----------



## krunchcrispy

Can anybody talk about the difference between K's 300 and K's Samara? Why such a price difference?
Thanks in advance!


----------



## vladstef (Feb 14, 2018)

Just got Seahf AWK-F150C. I am utterly shocked and in awe. What is this bass even without foams? What the heck?
Where is the hype for these buds!? Ty @HungryPanda for this suggestion, now, how do we make people just buy these?

I'm just gonna say that they are so much better than EMX500 it's almost comical. They also make LG V20 absolutely shine.


----------



## seanc6441

vladstef said:


> Just got Seahf AWK-F150C. I am utterly shocked and in awe. What is this bass even without foams? What the heck?
> Where is the hype for these buds!? Ty @HungryPanda for this suggestion, now, how do we make people just buy these?
> 
> I'm just gonna say that they are so much better than EMX500 it's almost comical. They also make LG V20 absolutely shine.


HungryPanda and WaynesWorld were loving this earbud and gave it high praise. I guess not many others own it on here to sing it’s praises!


----------



## j4100

Haha - I love them too. I even have a spare pair on the way, just in case. I really should have tried more Seahf buds.


----------



## vladstef

By the way, F150C sounds much better without foams to me, though this might not be possible if you can't get a decent seal without foams. 
Also, they look and feel much better than photos would suggest. Glossy black finish is perfectly done and cable is very soft and light. Photos suggest a matte finish but that isn't the case.


----------



## noknok23

I remember recommending the Seahf150c for HungryPanda a while ago because he was looking for something that suits metal music. They have a nice crunch and a lot of energy. However I never really got into them because they sounded bright and the treble was a bit fatiguing for me (Also, I don't listen to metal enough haha). I gifted them to a friend. Maybe I would have enjoyed them more now since I have a warmer source. Imo the mx500 are very smooth fun and the seahf V shaped bright. I would not consider them a direct upgrade. But I'm speaking from memory so take this with a grain of salt.
the cable is similar to the HE150 PRO, and I love this kind of build too. A thin, tight, black braided cable. Solid, functional and low-key.


----------



## cocolinho

vladstef said:


> Just got Seahf AWK-F150C. I am utterly shocked and in awe.
> I'm just gonna say that they are so much better than EMX500 it's almost comical.


ok last one I'll buy... I bought far too much buds and nothing convinced me enough to put my EMX500 in the drawer, even high priced stuffs....
If they are not "so much better than EMX500", you will hear me


----------



## vladstef (Feb 14, 2018)

noknok23 said:


> I remember recommending the Seahf150c for HungryPanda a while ago because he was looking for something that suits metal music. They have a nice crunch and a lot of energy. However I never really got into them because they sounded bright and the treble was a bit fatiguing for me (Also, I don't listen to metal enough haha). I gifted them to a friend. Maybe I would have enjoyed them more now since I have a warmer source. Imo the mx500 are very smooth fun and the seahf V shaped bright. I would not consider them a direct upgrade. But I'm speaking from memory so take this with a grain of salt.
> the cable is similar to the HE150 PRO, and I love this kind of build too. A thin, tight, black braided cable. Solid, functional and low-key.



To my ears, EMX500 and F150C are in different resolution categories, regardless of tonality. Having said this, their tonalities are quite similar and treble was harsher on EMX500 while F150c might be just slightly brighter overall. Mid range details and resolution with more bass stability and even more punch are what's making me enjoy them so much - very far from recessed mid range and V shaped sound.

Like with all buds, treble response varies SO much depending on how you wear them. When I put them regularly it's quite extremely bright for me, but I wear earbuds sideways which almost creates a seal and evens out treble on F150C specifically.


----------



## -rowan-

They're here!


 

Quick notes:


No foams: Well, this is bright. No bass (says this inveterate Etymotic ER4S fan). 


Stock full foams: Horribly thick and honky mids. Like a caricature of the iSine 20.


Stock donut foams: Better...


Rubber rings: If I had to go with any of the stock options it would be this. Leaner mids. Helps keep enough bass in (I said I wanted bass detail; I didn't say I didn't want bass at all...) 


VE foams: Bingo. 

(Thanks @seanc6441 for the idea; at least I think it was you) 

I don't know what it is about VE foams but they made the Masya sound a sight more natural than anything that came with it. The full foams dialled down the mids a bit too much whereas the thin foams produced a more cohesive sound imo so I'm going with those for now. But they're both good. 


Brb, off to get some listening done...


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 14, 2018)

-rowan- said:


> They're here!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nearly none of the earbuds have bass quantity without foams, that’s just a given almost. The Masya has pretty nice quality and quantity bass with the right foams. I also found its brightness is completely dependent on the source so if you found the right balance with thin foams that’s good news.

I’m using a thinner than usual full foam on mine, it’s definitely clearer than the stock foams but slightly less bright/transparent than the thin foams with the benefit of adding some fullness to the mids and calming down the brightness.

I’ll try them in a different source if/when I get a new DAP to see how they respond to a higher end source.


----------



## -rowan-

seanc6441 said:


> The isine seems a lot like the Rose Masya in terms of space and soundstage being open and airy. The Masya extends deeper and higher than the bs1 but I’m sure the planar bass extends more and without much roll off.
> 
> I heard the isine has tonality and frequency response issues without the cipher cable and that EQing is your friend to ‘fix’ the sound if you want a more linear response.
> 
> ...



Wow yeah. I remember the iSine 10 well even though it's been about a year since I heard them (because I walked away with the iSine 20) but I have my brand new Masya in my ears now and was just thinking that they remind me of the 10... 

They have their similarities in soundstage but the
10's is bigger and it has more precise imaging for such a wide soundstage. It was the first thing that struck me about the 10. The Masya doesn't hold a candle to it on that count, I'm afraid, at least not what I'm hearing so far. 

But the other thing about the iSine 10 that left an impression was how *hard* the upper mids and highs could get when a singer or musician really goes for it. I'm getting a bit of that with the Masya now. The iSine 20 was noticeably smoother and more resolving. 

(Off topic but re. those alleged EQ issues - I actually dislike the 2KHz bump that Audeze have baked into the cipher cable so that's the main thing I EQ down when using it  But different folks, different strokes...)


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 14, 2018)

-rowan- said:


> Wow yeah. I remember the iSine 10 well even though it's been about a year since I heard them (because I walked away with the iSine 20) but I have my brand new Masya in my ears now and was just thinking that they remind me of the 10...
> 
> They have their similarities in soundstage but the
> 10's is bigger and it has more precise imaging for such a wide soundstage. It was the first thing that struck me about the 10. The Masya doesn't hold a candle to it on that count, I'm afraid, at least not what I'm hearing so far.
> ...


The masya for me personally is average at imaging, the soundstage portrays a large hall with imaging being more directional than precise. Other earbuds will image much better like the BS1 etc imo. But the sense of space and air about the instruments is great in the Masya for earbuds standards.

Also the Masya might be helped by a fuller more weighty source as it can sound somewhat thin on the mids in some pairings lacking some lower mid texture. Just my observation from my lacking sources though.


----------



## -rowan-

seanc6441 said:


> I also found its brightness is completely dependent on the source so if you found the right balance with thin foams that’s good news.



D'you know what... I was just discovering this. That the Masya is more source-dependent than practically anything else I have. 

I started listening to them on the Fiio X3ii (which I quite dislike sound quality-wise, but is usually made acceptable by the Topping NX1A, which is now permanently attached to it) because it was the most convenient rig at hand. And then I switched to the Colorfly C10... and I may as well have been listening to two completely different earbuds with the Masya being so much smoother and more nuanced on the C10.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 14, 2018)

-rowan- said:


> D'you know what... I was just discovering this. That the Masya is more source-dependent than practically anything else I have.
> 
> I started listening to them on the Fiio X3ii (which I quite dislike sound quality-wise, but is usually made acceptable by the Topping NX1A, which is now permanently attached to it) because it was the most convenient rig at hand. And then I switched to the Colorfly C10... and I may as well have been listening to two completely different earbuds with the Masya being so much smoother and more nuanced on the C10.


I know I found them to be extremely picky and can sound like trash on some of my sources and I get a sense they can be wonderfully nuanced and sound much more pleasing on others. Funny how some earbuds are so affected and others are not.

Is the colourfly less dark? I found anything overly bassy to effect the masya’s bass driver and make the sound muddy.

You should revisit the full foams on your colorfly to see if it’s still muddy sounding.


----------



## -rowan-

seanc6441 said:


> Also the Masya might be helped by a fuller more weighty source as it can sound somewhat thin on the mids in some pairings lacking some lower mid texture. Just my observation from my lacking sources though.



No, you're right; the C10 can be too weighty for some of my other gear, which is why I don't reach for it as often. But it's perfect with the Masya. 

In fact the Masya pairs better with it than with the C4 even, maybe because the C10 has a more generous low end for the Masya to play with.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 14, 2018)

-rowan- said:


> No, you're right; the C10 can be too weighty for some of my other gear, which is why I don't reach for it as often. But it's perfect with the Masya.
> 
> In fact the Masya pairs better with it than with the C4 even, maybe because the C10 has a more generous low end for the Masya to play with.


That’s funny because I found the masya to sound dull on darker sources or a source with a slight more boomy bass, but if it’s bass is powerful but not overly dark in overall balance it may be ideal.

Although it may not be the bass but the overall lack of quality of my laptop as a source not playing well with the masya.

I’m probably getting the Cayin N5ii so I’ll have a play with it on that. Should be fun


----------



## -rowan-

seanc6441 said:


> That’s funny because I found the masya to sound dull on darker sources or a source with a slight more boomy bass, but if it’s bass is powerful but not overly dark in overall balance it may be ideal.
> 
> Although it may not be the bass but the overall lack of quality of my laptop as a source not playing well with the masya.
> 
> I’m probably getting the Cayin N5ii so I’ll have a play with it on that. Should be fun



Cool! I really like how the N3 sounds but have been holding out for the N5ii so will be looking out for your impressions.

Yeah the C10 isn't dark - the C4 has been accused of being economical with bass (it isn't, imo, not with the right gear anyway) so I'm guessing Colorfly reckoned they'd just give people a bit more of what they wanted...


----------



## -rowan- (Feb 14, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> You should revisit the full foams on your colorfly to see if it’s still muddy sounding.



Stock full foams - better than with the X3ii but still nope. Sounds like you're cupping your ears to hear something.

VE full foams - there's very little to tell them apart from the thin foams on the C10, to me anyway. Slightly more congested maybe. But I could easily fail a blind test with these.

Sticking with the thin foams


----------



## j4100 (Feb 14, 2018)

Wow!

Tonight is a good night for earbud listening. I'm listening to All Them Witches and Amplifier with my new ZOE through the RA2.0bl and Warp Core. I'm sure I'll need put them down at some point 




Also newly arrived are the Neosound Soul. Absolutely not disgracing themselves after the ZOE. Surprised to see a little in-line control on the RH earpiece cable. The cable itself is really nice and soft. I have VE donuts on them and there's plenty of bass with a little volume. Really pleased to have bought these.


----------



## seanc6441

-rowan- said:


> Stock full foams - better than with the X3ii but still nope. Sounds like you're cupping your ears to hear something.
> 
> VE full foams - there's very little to tell them apart from the thin foams on the C10, to me anyway. Slightly more congested maybe. But I could easily fail a blind test with these.
> 
> Sticking with the thin foams


Yeah the VE full foams are good, although my current full foams and are more transparent/thinner again. More detail but slightly less ‘wall of sound’ fullness which personally I’m ok with as I’d rather the source determine the weight and body of the sound than muddying it with thick foams.


----------



## Mikaboshi

Which of these budget earbuds sound similar to HiFiman RE-400? VE Monk+, EMXS-500, Ty - HiZ, or Vidos. 

I've got my eye on Ve Monks but if none of these sound similar to re400, please recommend anything (5 to 30 USD prince range)


----------



## Konstrictor

Good day. I think this information will be very useful for many:
http://audiofield.ru


----------



## BrunoC

Mikaboshi said:


> Which of these budget earbuds sound similar to HiFiman RE-400? VE Monk+, EMXS-500, Ty - HiZ, or Vidos.
> 
> I've got my eye on Ve Monks but if none of these sound similar to re400, please recommend anything (5 to 30 USD prince range)



Similar to HiFiman RE-400? 
That's a pretty neutral sounding IEM, man.

Well, in that price range I can only think of one: Moondrop Nameless.


----------



## Konstrictor

Excuse me, correct the link:
http://audiofield.ru/index.php/naus...istera-fanga-ili-kak-ya-za-vkladyshami-khodil


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 15, 2018)

BrunoC said:


> Similar to HiFiman RE-400?
> That's a pretty neutral sounding IEM, man.
> 
> Well, in that price range I can only think of one: Moondrop Nameless.


You’re right the nameless seams like the one to go for at around $16 on aliexpress it’s a great deal!

Here’s the link @Mikaboshi

http://s.aliexpress.com/nIb6z26v

If you want an upgrade on that there’s the moondrop VX pro for just under $60. But that’s over the budget you gave us so maybe not.


----------



## chinmie

j4100 said:


> Also newly arrived are the Neosound Soul. Absolutely not disgracing themselves after the ZOE. Surprised to see a little in-line control on the RH earpiece cable. The cable itself is really nice and soft. I have VE donuts on them and there's plenty of bass with a little volume. Really pleased to have bought these.



That's thailand based product, right? How much is it? How does it compared to your other buds?


----------



## chinmie

Mikaboshi said:


> Which of these budget earbuds sound similar to HiFiman RE-400? VE Monk+, EMXS-500, Ty - HiZ, or Vidos.
> 
> I've got my eye on Ve Monks but if none of these sound similar to re400, please recommend anything (5 to 30 USD prince range)



The **** PT15 maybe? Or the Moondrop nameless and VX pro


----------



## j4100

chinmie said:


> That's thailand based product, right? How much is it? How does it compared to your other buds?



390THB. The shipping for me was 300THB but I'm in the UK, so I bought two 

I only listened to them for 20 min throughout the RA 2.0bl, but was very impressed and not just for the price. With VE donuts there was decent bass and it seemed to my ears like the treble and mids were good as well. I've heard worse from buds costing a lot more.


----------



## chinmie

j4100 said:


> 390THB. The shipping for me was 300THB but I'm in the UK, so I bought two
> 
> I only listened to them for 20 min throughout the RA 2.0bl, but was very impressed and not just for the price. With VE donuts there was decent bass and it seemed to my ears like the treble and mids were good as well. I've heard worse from buds costing a lot more.



thanks! do they accept paypal or else?


----------



## j4100

chinmie said:


> thanks! do they accept paypal or else?



Yes. I contacted them via FB messenger and they sent me an invoice. They told me shipping would be 30 days and it was accurate. Maybe quicker for you?


----------



## Mikaboshi

chinmie said:


> The **** PT15 maybe? Or the Moondrop nameless and VX pro


Thanks! will definitely be checking this out. Fortunately, a local seller got these in hand.


----------



## Mikaboshi

seanc6441 said:


> You’re right the nameless seams like the one to go for at around $16 on aliexpress it’s a great deal!
> 
> Here’s the link @Mikaboshi
> 
> ...


Thanks! It looks really durable. will be checking this out, too.


----------



## seanc6441

Mikaboshi said:


> Thanks! will definitely be checking this out. Fortunately, a local seller got these in hand.


**** pt15 may be bright and harsh in the treble as some seem to suggest. Moondrop would be a better choice for neutral/balanced sound most likely.


----------



## seanc6441

Mikaboshi said:


> Thanks! It looks really durable. will be checking this out, too.


I don’t have it myself but I’ve heard so, it’s a metal shell and nobody has complained about quality issues so far. Seems like a good buy especially at such a good price!


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> **** pt15 may be bright and harsh in the treble as some seem to suggest. Moondrop would be a better choice for neutral/balanced sound most likely.



I never find the PT15 harsh at all, and to me this is more balanced compared to the nameless, which although neutral, is a bit warmer than the PT15. VX Pro is more balanced than the nameless


----------



## Mikaboshi

seanc6441 said:


> I don’t have it myself but I’ve heard so, it’s a metal shell and nobody has complained about quality issues so far. Seems like a good buy especially at such a good price!


Alright. I'll be getting the Nameless after the PT15. Thanks again!


----------



## chinmie

Simple experiment with the PT15 : try covering these two holes. To me it adds air, knocking off some freq from the mids to make them leaner and more spacious.

Covering the other two holes won't work though, as it only make the sound out of phase-y.. It must be that two


----------



## Saoshyant

PT15 reminds me more of the Etymotic HF5, but for the price range should be more than adequate given what you're seeking.  Haven't hear Nameless, but should eventually remedy that after I get some big PC purchases out of the way.


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> **** pt15 may be bright and harsh in the treble as some seem to suggest.





chinmie said:


> I never find the PT15 harsh at all, and to me this is more balanced compared to the nameless, which although neutral, is a bit warmer than the PT15.



Listening right now with my PT15...and, as chinmie said, no harshness for me either.  Another good all rounder in my opinion.  

Sean, please be careful about influencing opinion based on things you think others may or may not have said.


----------



## chinmie

yes, please only give solid suggestions based on personal experience rather than other's opinions. i have owned and sold two PT15 (old four holes vent) , both sounded the same: balanced and not harsh. 
i will definitely gonna buy the new one vent version, because i really like the PT15 sound, and some members here have tried and said that the new one's better


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 15, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Listening right now with my PT15...and, as chinmie said, no harshness for me either.  Another good all rounder in my opinion.
> 
> Sean, please be careful about influencing opinion based on things you think others may or may not have said.


I understand but I did say it was others opinions (which have been stated on this forum) and I did not pass it off as mine. Also it’s not something I think they said, it’s something they did say. However their are two versions of the pt15 so maybe that’s where the differences in opinion are coming from.

If people agree or disagree they can add to that to the discussion. I’m simply giving him a heads up to check this himself before buying as he stated he wanted smooth treble and it’s up to him to judge from all the reviews/opinions whether the pt15 fits the bill or not.

For example I own the Masya and some consider it bright and neutral and others consider it warm and bassy... It would be negligent not to consider all opinions and see which out weighs the other.

Also the diy graphene’s to me are very bright and obviously a wide V shape and share a similar driver make up both being graphene drivers, however others will say they are balanced but it would be easy to miss that opinion like I did when buying the graphene’s thinking they are balanced sounding which to my ears is not the case.


----------



## waynes world (Feb 15, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> I understand but I did say it was others opinions (which have been stated on this forum) and I did not pass it off as mine. Also it’s not something I think they said, it’s something they did say. However their are two versions of the pt15 so maybe that’s where the differences in opinion are coming from.
> 
> If people agree or disagree they can add to that to the discussion. I’m simply giving him a heads up to check this himself before buying as he stated he wanted smooth treble and it’s up to him to judge from all the reviews/opinions whether the pt15 fits the bill or not.
> 
> ...



I'm not sure if this is the case, but if you are referring to what I said the other day, I can now see that my post may not have been worded the best. Anyway, what I meant is that I am fairly sensitive to treble, and although the PT15's highs sound great to me and I really enjoy them, due to my sensitivity, after a while my ears get a bit fatigued. But the same thing happens to my ears if there is a lot of bass. So the issue is my ears, not the PT15's lol. Edit: to be clear, there is no harshness to the PT15's treble to my ears.

Edit #2: Switched to using a bit warmer amp (Fiio E12) with the PT15's and listening to some cool trance. Yes, still plenty of upper energy, but my ears are loving it - mesmerizing


----------



## silverfishla

Graphene buds!  I was enjoying the BGVP ones until...I tried to change the cable.  The MMXC connectors pulled right out.  There is absolutely no strain relief on the earbud side of the connector.  They are not even glued in as far as I can see.  Slipped right out with the cable and disconnected.  So, right now, I say don't buy these.  I'm going to contact the seller, since these are supposed to be under warranty or something.


----------



## j4100

Man! That's rough. My PT15s were so tight to attach to the cable that I worry that I would do the same. I hope the seller sorts this out for you.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 15, 2018)

waynes world said:


> I'm not sure if this is the case, but if you are referring to what I said the other day, I can now see that my post may not have been worded the best. Anyway, what I meant is that I am fairly sensitive to treble, and although the PT15's highs sound great to me and I really enjoy them, due to my sensitivity, after a while my ears get a bit fatigued. But the same thing happens to my ears if there is a lot of bass. So the issue is my ears, not the PT15's lol. Edit: to be clear, there is no harshness to the PT15's treble to my ears.


Everyone has different ears. You found these to be brighter than the graphene’s though right? I found the graphene’s bright and a little harsh in the higher frequencies so it’s possible some may find both of these buds bright... or not.

No harm in giving potential buyers all the information as it’s always a judgement call when it comes to buying audio products. Nobody can tell you for certain how something will sound to your ears, only give you their best guess.


----------



## silverfishla

j4100 said:


> Man! That's rough. My PT15s were so tight to attach to the cable that I worry that I would do the same. I hope the seller sorts this out for you.


Yeah, PT15's are solid.   The BGVP is just bad design or no forethought on the connector.  Too bad, it was a pretty good sounding bud with a nice cable.


----------



## B9Scrambler (Feb 15, 2018)

silverfishla said:


> Graphene buds!  I was enjoying the BGVP ones until...I tried to change the cable.  The MMXC connectors pulled right out.  There is absolutely no strain relief on the earbud side of the connector.  They are not even glued in as far as I can see.  Slipped right out with the cable and disconnected.  So, right now, I say don't buy these.  I'm going to contact the seller, since these are supposed to be under warranty or something.



That exact issue happened to me today while I was writing up some notes for my review. Too bad because they were quite good. BGVP continues to disappoint...


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Everyone has different ears. You found these to be brighter than the graphene’s though right? I found the graphene’s bright and a little harsh in the higher frequencies so it’s possible some may find both of these buds bright... or not.



It might simply be the term "harsh" that is causing the issue.

I do find the PT15's to be brighter than the graphenes. Then again, maybe the graphenes are as "bright", but I find that some sounds such as hi-hats are sharper or more pronounced on the PT15's, and smoother on the graphenes (which I find to be more forgiving to my ears). 

Does that mean that I find the PT15's to be "a little harsh"? Here is CliOS's definition:


> *Harsh *- Grating, abrasive. Too much upper midrange. Peaks in the frequency response between 2 and 6 kHz. Or, excessive phase shift in a digital recorder's low pass filter.



Nope, calling the PT15's "harsh" would be way to harsh lol.



> No harm in giving potential buyers all the information as it’s always a judgement call when it comes to buying audio products. Nobody can tell you for certain how something will sound to your ears, only give you their best guess.



Definitely.


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Nope, calling the PT15's "harsh" would be way to harsh lol.



To me "harsh"  would be synonymous with "unlistenable."


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> To me "harsh"  would be synonymous with "unlistenable."


Maybe I’m using the term wrong, I do find the graphene’s high’s/treble peaky and slightly sharp. I’ve heard much more pleasently smooth treble in earbuds who are described as balanced (Masya/BS1/BK) so to me the graphene fall into the bright category and others consider the pt15 to also. But that’s up to the induvidual and their source too.


----------



## waynes world (Feb 15, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> To me "harsh"  would be synonymous with "unlistenable."



Yes, but does it mean "simply brighter than I prefer unlistenable" or "glass shards and blood dripping out of my ears unlistenable"? 

Btw, the PT15's are neither to me! I've been listening to them for a few hours now. I suspect that my wimpy ears might get fatigued at some point, but until then, I'm enjoying them very much.

Btw#2: my official opinion regarding the PT15's is that they do have a brighter signature, and that they are pretty friggin' amazing. Ridiculous value really.


----------



## chinmie

silverfishla said:


> Graphene buds!  I was enjoying the BGVP ones until...I tried to change the cable.  The MMXC connectors pulled right out.  There is absolutely no strain relief on the earbud side of the connector.  They are not even glued in as far as I can see.  Slipped right out with the cable and disconnected.  So, right now, I say don't buy these.  I'm going to contact the seller, since these are supposed to be under warranty or something.





B9Scrambler said:


> That exact issue happened to me today while I was writing up some notes for my review. Too bad because they were quite good. BGVP continues to disappoint...



That is unfortunate.. especially given their price..I hope the seller can sort this out for you.. i always gently slip my nail between them when disconnecting mmcx because i always afraid i might break them when i pulled them too hard


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Maybe I’m using the term wrong, I do find the graphene’s high’s/treble peaky and slightly sharp. I’ve heard much more pleasently smooth treble in earbuds who are described as balanced (Masya/BS1/BK) so to me the graphene fall into the bright category and others consider the pt15 to also. But that’s up to the induvidual and their source too.



You should try the PT15, especially because you like the masya and BK. It is cheap enough to be a harmless experiment, and you might find it to be a gem there.

I used to avoid them because of one or two reviews saying them shrill and too treble-y, but decided to give them a try because some others said otherwise.. i'm glad that i did try them



waynes world said:


> Yes, but does it mean "simply brighter than I prefer unlistenable" or "glass shards and blood dripping out of my ears unlistenable"?
> 
> Btw, the PT15's are neither to me! I've been listening to them for a few hours now. I suspect that my wimpy ears might get fatigued at some point, but until then, I'm enjoying them very much.
> 
> Btw#2: my official opinion regarding the PT15's is that they do have a brighter signature, and that they are pretty friggin' amazing. Ridiculous value really.



What makes the PT15 special for me is because they sound and tuned more like a small studio mixing monitors rather than usual Eq-ed buds. The graphene is EQ-ed, and a fun one at that, but i ended up liking the PT15 better..not to mention the build quality is astounding for the meager price


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> What makes the PT15 special for me is because they sound and tuned more like a small studio mixing monitors rather than usual Eq-ed buds



I think that is what I was enjoying so much about them today... the tuning.  The tonality.  Or, maybe I just have good music


----------



## seanc6441

@chinmie Speak of the devil


----------



## B9Scrambler

chinmie said:


> That is unfortunate.. especially given their price..I hope the seller can sort this out for you.. i always gently slip my nail between them when disconnecting mmcx because i always afraid i might break them when i pulled them too hard



I'm lucky in that they were a sample. The only thing I wasted on them was time, i.e. the many hours spent listening and taking notes and writing a good chunk of the review. All kinda pointless now, though I did like them quite a bit. Like you noted, the black plastic sleeve wasn't glued down, just held in place via pressure. There was a lot of glue on the MMCX terminals too with no tinning on the wires making me suspect they weren't soldered properly. Oh well.


----------



## B9Scrambler (Feb 15, 2018)

.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 15, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> Yours too?!


Oh no I’m just surprising chinmie by producing the **** PT15’s which I own lol

No I won’t be buying those BFG earbuds anytime soon! Or whatever they are called...


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> I think that is what I was enjoying so much about them today... the tuning.  The tonality.  Or, maybe I just have good music



good music! definitely


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Oh no I’m just surprising chinmie by producing the **** PT15’s which I own lol
> 
> No I won’t be buying those BFG earbuds anytime soon! Or whatever they are called...



now that you owned them, it's better to say your own personal view on them


----------



## seanc6441

m


chinmie said:


> now that you owned them, it's better to say your own personal view on them


Going to be difficult when I don’t own a MMCX cable


----------



## seanc6441

I’ll probably pick one up soon and give my own impressions of this bud. Btw mine is the ‘4 hole’ version. The original I think?


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> I’ll probably pick one up soon and give my own impressions of this bud. Btw mine is the ‘4 hole’ version. The original I think?



Yup, that is the older version. I'm also going to buy the new one, just want to make sure with the seller that they have it instead of the old version.



seanc6441 said:


> m
> 
> Going to be difficult when I don’t own a MMCX cable



Code red! Someone please lend the fellow a cable!


----------



## doggiemom

There was an earbud related breakthrough in our household this evening.  My husband goes to the gym 5 days a week, and has been using some crappy Bluetooth IEMs with over ear hooks.  They kept falling out of his ears, and he stepped on them.

I don’t have any “sport” IEMs (except for some Sonys which were terrible, but I cannot find them in my spreadsheet so can’t find them at all.....) so I gave him some Monk+’s has inner ear hooks to try.

This was really stressful for me...... I had to look through all the Monks to make sure I didn’t give him a limited edition color that I don’t have a backup for...... 

I settled on the readily-available “coffee” colored Monks, and gave him that to try along with the earhooks and Bluewave Get. (He has an iPhone 8 so no headphone jack).  After much fiddling, he announced “These sound MUCH better.”  Another convert!

I told him that he is very lucky because only 0.001% of wives could help him with that problem.  @mbwilson111 and I are special ladies.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 15, 2018)

chinmie said:


> Yup, that is the older version. I'm also going to buy the new one, just want to make sure with the seller that they have it instead of the old version.
> 
> 
> 
> Code red! Someone please lend the fellow a cable!


Ironically I bought it from Nicehck and i was titled ‘new **** pt15’ sigh ^^

I’m thinking of grabbing a bluetooth cable for it. Would be nice to own atleast one bluetooth earbud for jogging etc.

How is the nicehck hb1 for $28? Or is there a better option for just a cable with bluetooth and inline controls (not the radstone earstudio sorry waynesworld! lol)

I’ll pick up a $5 regular cable too to test it’s SQ in wired... just wondering about a bt cable for one of the few buds I own that could avail of it


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Ironically I bought it from Nicehck and i was titled ‘new **** pt15’ sigh ^^
> 
> I’m thinking of grabbing a bluetooth cable for it. Would be nice to own atleast one bluetooth earbud for jogging etc.
> 
> ...



I also want to purchase from nicehck..they haven't reply my message though, maybe because of the chinese new year holiday.

I use the HB1 for my iem now, and using two cheaper bluetooth (i think the code is BT?) for the PT15 and Svara L

The HB1 sounded slightly better (more bass bass and treble extension, but only noticable on more critical listen..that's why i put them on my iem) and support APTX. 

The cheaper ones is lopsided because the control is heavy on one side, but easily remedied with a shirt clip. I use them for running and bouldering without issues. Also slightly shorter on battery life


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> I also want to purchase from nicehck..they haven't reply my message though, maybe because of the chinese new year holiday.
> 
> I use the HB1 for my iem now, and using two cheaper bluetooth (i think the code is BT?) for the PT15 and Svara L
> 
> ...


Yeah I’m not too fussed about small details in the SQ as they will be for practical use and not critical listening.

I might just pick up the cheap one for now, it’s $7 lol


----------



## zeta555

seanc6441 said:


> Ironically I bought it from Nicehck and i was titled ‘new **** pt15’ sigh ^^
> 
> I’m thinking of grabbing a bluetooth cable for it. Would be nice to own atleast one bluetooth earbud for jogging etc.
> 
> ...



plussound have bluetooth cable that you can customize almost everything from the connector to the cable itself.

or something like the ak xb10 is also pretty good


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Ironically I bought it from Nicehck and i was titled ‘new **** pt15’ sigh ^^
> 
> I’m thinking of grabbing a bluetooth cable for it. Would be nice to own atleast one bluetooth earbud for jogging etc.
> 
> ...



Lol! I got the hb1 (and pt15), hoping that it would satiate my bluetooth/earbud needs. Sadly though I cannot wear buds over the ears (they fall out), so it doesnt work for me. But then I found the fiio btr1 which satisfies my bluetooth needs better anyway (for example, I don't really like having a bluetooth cable around my neck, and I can use all of my earbuds with it).


----------



## gazzington

I've been thinking of either getting fiio btr1 or that a astell & kern bluetooth dac amp gadget. Any suggestions at which would be best for use with my phone?


----------



## chinmie

zeta555 said:


> plussound have bluetooth cable that you can customize almost everything from the connector to the cable itself.
> 
> or something like the ak xb10 is also pretty good



@seanc6441  doesn't like to use dongle tipe bluetooths 



waynes world said:


> Lol! I got the hb1 (and pt15), hoping that it would satiate my bluetooth/earbud needs. Sadly though I cannot wear buds over the ears (they fall out), so it doesnt work for me. But then I found the fiio btr1 which satisfies my bluetooth needs better anyway (for example, I don't really like having a bluetooth cable around my neck, and I can use all of my earbuds with it).



You could shape the tube above the ears with hair dryers, just set it to hot. I once set mine to be worn straight down, but now i shape them for above the ears again



gazzington said:


> I've been thinking of either getting fiio btr1 or that a astell & kern bluetooth dac amp gadget. Any suggestions at which would be best for use with my phone?



Haven't heard the fiio (@waynes world  might give better input on it), the AK is great sounding though.


----------



## gazzington

Hmm the AK does sound like a great device.  The only other device im considering is the dragonfly red but obviously no bluetooth on that.

BTW I have been using tomahawks since somebody here recommended them for metal.  All I can say is thanks.  Incredible with with black metal.  I had to mess about with different combos of foams to reduce the piercing highs, but im now very happy.  Does anybody know if the Tings are an upgrade on these?


----------



## chinmie

gazzington said:


> Hmm the AK does sound like a great device.  The only other device im considering is the dragonfly red but obviously no bluetooth on that.
> 
> BTW I have been using tomahawks since somebody here recommended them for metal.  All I can say is thanks.  Incredible with with black metal.  I had to mess about with different combos of foams to reduce the piercing highs, but im now very happy.  Does anybody know if the Tings are an upgrade on these?



i want to also suggest the Radsone Earstudio, but unless they start selling again, i would only sound like a tease


----------



## BoomBap08 (Feb 16, 2018)

Hey, guys! I'm on the verge of getting a cygnus last time but with the help of @seanc6441 and lots of you who have posted their impressions here, I just held my purchase and thought why not go for the kill and get the shozy bk (stardust) instead. (Thanks?!? Lol.)

Anyway, I don't get to visit here often so maybe I missed some valuable, extensive info about the BK and maybe an in-depth comparison against the cygnus. Anybody care enough to direct me to any of that post? I've been back-reading for some time now but there's just too many pages to wade through all of 'em. I'm also done reading the two (official) reviews on the bk here in hf.

Hoping for your kind responses. Thanks!

Note: I'm planning to listen to the BKs naked so if y'all could provide some info about its sound, especially on the body, without foams would be highly, greatly appreciated.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 16, 2018)

BoomBap08 said:


> Hey, guys! I'm on the verge of getting a cygnus last time but with the help of @seanc6441 and lots of you who have posted their impressions here, I just held my purchase and thought why not go for the kill and get the shozy bk (stardust) instead. (Thanks?!? Lol.)
> 
> Anyway, I don't get to visit here often so maybe I missed some valuable, extensive info about the BK and maybe an in-depth comparison against the cygnus. Anybody care enough to direct me to any of that post? I've been back-reading for some time now but there's just too many pages to wade through all of 'em. I'm also done reading the two (official) reviews on the bk here in hf.
> 
> ...


I don’t recommend listening without foams but to each their own. If I was forced to listen without foams I’d pick the cygnus it has a smoother treble and stronger mid bass bump. Two things that foams usually bring to an earbud.

Are you set on listening without foams? Have you done so before enjoyed it? The treble on the bk would be pretty strong without them. For anything else the BK is just better, but without foams I could never use it. But if you’re used to that kind of sound then the bk is just better in every respect it’s like a linear more natural and better detailed cygnus. Although cygnus is a great bud too but it’s just not as good as the bk.


----------



## j4100

I don't think I have tried any earbuds that sounded better without foams, though I haven't properly tried the Zen lites with and without foams as yet. I usually have at least a donut fitted.

However, each to their own.


----------



## Danneq

Something for those who are interested in vintage earbuds. The auction might be interesting to follow. Any guesses on final price?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/273071596761?ul_noapp=true


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 16, 2018)

@BoomBap08 If you’re concerned about the size or if you find foams to congest the sound I’d suggest you atleast try these super thin foams here
http://s.aliexpress.com/veMv6jMb

If you can handle the treble and don’t mind the light bass of foamless earbuds, the bk will have the edge with a much fuller and slightly more natural and engaging midrange. That will sound good foamless or foamed I feel. But bass is more controlled than on the cygnus and treble is more flat and extended but is also slightly more rough probably due to less roll off and more detail.


----------



## redkingjoe (Feb 16, 2018)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/273071596761?ul_noapp=true[/QUOTE]


BoomBap08 said:


> Hey, guys! I'm on the verge of getting a cygnus last time but with the help of @seanc6441 and lots of you who have posted their impressions here, I just held my purchase and thought why not go for the kill and get the shozy bk (stardust) instead. (Thanks?!? Lol.)
> 
> Anyway, I don't get to visit here often so maybe I missed some valuable, extensive info about the BK and maybe an in-depth comparison against the cygnus. Anybody care enough to direct me to any of that post? I've been back-reading for some time now but there's just too many pages to wade through all of 'em. I'm also done reading the two (official) reviews on the bk here in hf.
> 
> ...



I have a pair of BK. It’s extremely comfortable when used naked. It’s the most comfortable earbud I have ever used.

I tried the with and without a few time. It sounds better when the donut pad is on!


----------



## BoomBap08 (Feb 16, 2018)

I actually use foams on buds depending on their signature. I tend to hook-up donuts on v-shape/warm buds and naked on neutral/midcentric ones. I know it's kinda opposite but yeah, I enjoy listening to neutral/midcentric buds naked like the ting, tomahawk, nicehck pk2, hiz 32, and rx1. I like taking advantage of the soundstage/openness/mids of these type of buds compared to the weirder low-end production of bassier buds when naked.

Anyway, the reason why I'm asking this is because I'm concerned that the BK or Cygnus or whichever won't be able to produce at the very least, enough body on the lower mids especially for instruments like guitars and the like to shine. But if they can, even when naked, then no doubt I'm gonna cop them now lol.

I have no problems with treble as I really love bright signatures but for this particular purchase, I'm planning to get a warm, smooth midcentric buds to use for relaxing.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 16, 2018)

BoomBap08 said:


> I actually use foams on buds depending on their signature. I tend to hook-up donuts on v-shape/warm buds and naked on neutral/midcentric ones. I know it's kinda opposite but yeah, I enjoy listening to neutral/midcentric buds naked like the ting, tomahawk, nicehck pk2, hiz 32, and rx1. I like taking advantage of the soundstage/openness/mids of these type of buds compared to the weirder low-end production of bassier buds when naked.
> 
> Anyway, the reason why I'm asking this is because I'm concerned that the BK or Cygnus or whichever won't be able to produce at the very least, enough body on the lower mids especially for instruments like guitars and the like to shine. But if they can, even when naked, then no doubt I'm gonna cop them now lol.
> 
> I have no problems with treble as I really love bright signatures but for this particular purchase, I'm planning to get a warm, smooth midcentric buds to use for relaxing.


If you can handle the tomahawk naked I have new levels of respect for you but I pity your poor bleeding ears LMAO

You should get the bk then, you can obviously tolerate treble and the bk’s treble is nothing compared to the tomahawks. Besides you can always put a foam on it if it doesn’t work out for you foamless.

By the way you have nothing to worry about with the bk in regards to body/fullness. These things are a beast in that regard, easily the most full textured and natural sounding buds I’ve heard. They have a natural hint of warmth you’ll appreciate too and are very transparent so the source will add or subtract warmth to your preference (assuming you have any darker/warmer sources).

These are not mid centric but balanced and forward in the vocals (which is like mid centric but better imo). These reproduce vocal and mid focused music amazingly.

You’re going to love the BK man, I bet without foams the soundstage will even open up so that’s a benefit!


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 16, 2018)

You definitely need to try out those thin foams I suggested for $1 (for 100 foams!!!).

They barely change the sound signature, very transparent and airy.

All they do is help the fit, add a little seal for a slight bass improvement and slightly smooth the treble (emphasis on the word slightly).

Not even the current ve thin foams are as transparent as these imo. They sound splashly in comparison whereas these are just transparent sounding.

I even cut these thin foams into donut form for my cygnus, this means the mids are unchanged in clarity or tonality and it’s like having them foamless but with a better balance of bass/treble.


----------



## mbwilson111

doggiemom said:


> This was really stressful for me...... I had to look through all the Monks to make sure I didn’t give him a limited edition color that I don’t have a backup for......



LOL I can totally visualize this scene



doggiemom said:


> I told him that he is very lucky because only 0.001% of wives could help him with that problem. @mbwilson111 and I are special ladies.



You meant crazy ladies, right?


----------



## Ceteru

My HP-650s have completely taken over listening duties at my desk at home  The exception is when my brother (roommate) is being particularly loud, at which point the over-ears come back out. But for movies, music, YouTube, anime, etc. earbuds have become the go-to. It's a nice feeling to just pick them up and drop them into my ears and listen, no fiddling with fit or positioning.


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> I'm sure I have vernier calipers somewhere. I'll dig them out soon and measure the buds i have.



Have you dug them out yet?   I bought some digital calipers but am having a horrible time trying to figure out how to get an accurate measurement.


----------



## golov17

Danneq said:


> Something for those who are interested in vintage earbuds. The auction might be interesting to follow. Any guesses on final price?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/273071596761?ul_noapp=true


350 - 400


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> Have you dug them out yet?   I bought some digital calipers but am having a horrible time trying to figure out how to get an accurate measurement.



No, sorry. I am exceptionally lazy and prone to procrastination at times. I think I know where they are, but it's cold outside  Is there any earbuds in particular that I have that you would like measured? That might goad me into action this weekend.


----------



## waynes world (Feb 16, 2018)

gazzington said:


> I've been thinking of either getting fiio btr1 or that a astell & kern bluetooth dac amp gadget. Any suggestions at which would be best for use with my phone?



The Fiio BTR1 is only $79 $50. It has approx 8 hours battery life, very low hiss, great SQ, and supports APTX (from android devices). It doesn't support AAC for apple devices though, so I'd mainly recommend it for android.
https://www.amazon.com/FiiO-BTR1-Bl...UTF8&qid=1518798717&sr=8-1&keywords=fiio+btr1

But another one that I really want is the Radsone Earstudio ES100...
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/radsone-earstudio.867366/page-14#post-14046171

It's approx $100, but apparently really great: 14 hours battery life, supports balanced out, APTX-HD, and more functionality via the app.



chinmie said:


> i want to also suggest the Radsone Earstudio, but unless they start selling again, i would only sound like a tease



Yup! I think they are in production now and starting to be made more available now.


----------



## waynes world

Am I the only one enjoying their Monk lite 120's? I'm talking nicely amped of course. I really like them. Any other impressions.. good or bad?


----------



## ctaxxxx

j4100 said:


> I don't think I have tried any earbuds that sounded better without foams, though I haven't properly tried the Zen lites with and without foams as yet. I usually have at least a donut fitted.
> 
> However, each to their own.



The Cypherus Blue Darth are the only buds I've heard that I preferred naked. It's dark and bassy sound signature helps. Without foams, it's pretty neutral with great bass.


----------



## rahmish

waynes world said:


> Am I the only one enjoying their Monk lite 120's? I'm talking nicely amped of course. I really like them. Any other impressions.. good or bad?


I'm really enjoying them, quiet impressed!


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> You definitely need to try out those thin foams I suggested for $1 (for 100 foams!!!).
> 
> They barely change the sound signature, very transparent and airy.
> 
> ...


I'm still waiting on these  The tracking number from Aliexpress updated one time, and then there's been no change for quite a while now. I know that's somewhat expected but it's still a bit annoying not having a clue where something is.


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> No, sorry. I am exceptionally lazy and prone to procrastination at times. I think I know where they are, but it's cold outside  Is there any earbuds in particular that I have that you would like measured? That might goad me into action this weekend.




Do you have a coat?

We have these in common:

Qian 39
Qian 69
Seahf AWK-F150C
**** PT15
Toneking ROS1
VE Monk Plus

If you do those, I will work on finding a way to duplicate your results.  Then I will measure all of mine and report back.


----------



## hex182

Does anyone know if a driver can be removed safely from a generic mx500 shell without destroying either the shell or the driver?  An I don't mean so that you can solder the back of it, I mean the actual driver from the round part where it is placed.


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> Do you have a coat?



Haha. Maybe 



mbwilson111 said:


> you do those, I will work on finding a way to duplicate your results.  Then I will measure all of mine and report back.



Ok. My mission for the weekend then.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 16, 2018)

hex182 said:


> Does anyone know if a driver can be removed safely from a generic mx500 shell without destroying either the shell or the driver?  An I don't mean so that you can solder the back of it, I mean the actual driver from the round part where it is placed.


It would be incredibly difficult to say the least. The drivers are either glued or press fit into the front piece somehow and require some force to remove. The dilema is using enough force to pry the driver out without damaging it. You could try a heat gun/hair dryer to help if it’s glued.

Although I recommend a different method where you have the driver/front piece removed from the rest of the shell, you may be able to use a pliers and cutters to break pieces off the edge of the front piece until the driver has nothing to grip into and you can remove it that way. Basically taking away small pieces of the front shell until the driver is liberated.

Although the main issue with that is stopping the diaphragm and voice coil separating from the body of the driver. Also be careful not to sever the tiny wire connecting the coil to the body of the wire... It’s so easily broken and then your driver is deadzo....

Honestly I tried DIY’ing 3 of my budget earbuds before like this and I destroyed 2 in the process... And I’m relatively capable at DIY...

So unless you’ve got master class skill at disassembling small objects it’s gonna be a difficult task at hand... But good luck lol!

But maybe someone else has a good method to share? @DBaldock9 has many diy earbud parts he may know a thing or two.


----------



## seanc6441

Speaking of diy’ing...

@Ceteru @B9Scrambler @audio123 @chinmie @alpha421 

And whoever else that owns the BS1 official and would like to try this...

I found a way to IMO improve the SQ of the bs1 to my ears. It’s a relatively simple trick that’s best described with just a picture and some words. Here’s what I did


 

The bottom of the shell has 3 air vents to allow air flow to the driver. Blocking these off turns the sound into an anemic mess with no dynamic sound.

So that got me thinking, what if I allowed even better airflow by cutting 3 holes (which I first marked with a marker) in the foam where the vents would be located. Now there is no foam restricting the airflow. I did notice a change in sound.

Here’s what I noticed:
-Stronger bass impact
-Soundstage is slightly more airy/spacious
- Better overall dynamics ‘lows are deep and fuller’, ‘high’s are more airy’.

It’s kind of like how the sound opens up without any foams, just less drastic than that, and without losing any benefits of the foam covers.

Try it yourselves it only costs you a pair of foams to ‘risk’. I feel it’s definitely worth it as this earbud doesn’t have a very open design in stock form and I find this helps to open up the sound somewhat.


----------



## kurtextrem

How exactly did you do that? scissor?


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> Speaking of diy’ing...
> 
> @Ceteru @B9Scrambler @audio123 @chinmie @alpha421
> 
> ...


I may just try this once those Aliexpress foams come in. This mod + their natural transparency that you've already described should make for an interesting experiment.


----------



## seanc6441

kurtextrem said:


> How exactly did you do that? scissor?


hah I knew that would be asked. I used a fine scissors and as I pinched the spot i wanted to snip I cut in a V shape and just pulled out the little marker spot with a tweezers, a much cleaner method would be to use a needle/pin and a lighter. Heat up the tip of the needle/pin with the lighter and once it’s hot simple melt a small dot at the marked point.

I saw this done in another diy project and it makes a very clean circle.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 16, 2018)

Ceteru said:


> I may just try this once those Aliexpress foams come in. This mod + their natural transparency that you've already described should make for an interesting experiment.


Actually it would work better with the normal full foams. They restrict more air and thus the effect of ‘opening’ up the air flow has greater significance.

The thin foams already sound very open... but they lack seal for bass impact and they increase treble and decrease fullness which in the case of the bs1 I think it doesn’t do it justice.

This earbud has a slight bump in the upper mids/lower treble that I’m pretty sensitive too so I need to use the full foams to cool it down a little but to each thier own.

But I think there’s no denying that it could do with sounding a little more ‘open’ and effortless at times so this helps a little to my ears.

Compared to my Shozy cygnus for example (another neutral but impactful sounding earbud) I do notice things I prefer on the cygnus and one was the slightly more low mid focused tonality that has a more natural rise in the upper mids than the BS1 which is bumped up in that area.

Another was just physically how the shell is more open that the sound is more airy even though the soundstage is smaller.


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> Actually it would work better with the normal full foams. They restrict more air and thus the effect of ‘opening’ up the air flow has greater significance.
> 
> The thin foams already sound very open... but they lack seal for bass impact and they increase treble and decrease fullness which in the case of the bs1 I think it doesn’t do it justice.
> 
> ...


Ah I see. Well Penon does provide a fair amount of foams out of the box, so it might be worth trying.


----------



## silverfishla

I recently bought the Faaeal Narcissus (300ohm) and Faaeal Snow Lotus 2.0 buds.  Faaeal have really got a sound all of their own.  The Snow Lotus are very revealing, warm and organic sounding.  The Narcissus are similar with great clarity when played with a big amp. They are both very spacious sounding.  Different sounding than the other buds and really good.


----------



## krunchcrispy

waynes world said:


> Am I the only one enjoying their Monk lite 120's? I'm talking nicely amped of course. I really like them. Any other impressions.. good or bad?


I havent been impressed with the 120 Lite -- they sound just 'run of the mill' to me: the Monk+ had a unique signature and imaging: the 120 Lite sound like my Toneking PT16s, but with less distinction.
My 2 cents. . .


----------



## waynes world

krunchcrispy said:


> I havent been impressed with the 120 Lite -- they sound just 'run of the mill' to me: the Monk+ had a unique signature and imaging: the 120 Lite sound like my Toneking PT16s, but with less distinction.
> My 2 cents. . .



Fair enough. Have you been using an amp? Because I feel the same way if they are not adequately amped.


----------



## silverfishla

Wow, Faaeal Snow Lotus 2.0, a real king at that $14 price point.  Nice big bottom end, but great upfront vocals too.  Great energy, nothing dull about this one.  Monk thin foams sound great with these.  Listening to some 80's music (Police, B52's, Dream Academy) really adds that warmth and separation I haven't heard since having them on vinyl.  Very nice.  Shanling M3s + Aune B1s.


----------



## waynes world

silverfishla said:


> Wow, Faaeal Snow Lotus 2.0, a real king at that $14 price point.  Nice big bottom end, but great upfront vocals too.  Great energy, nothing dull about this one.  Monk thin foams sound great with these.  Listening to some 80's music (Police, B52's, Dream Academy) really adds that warmth and separation I haven't heard since having them on vinyl.  Very nice.  Shanling M3s + Aune B1s.



I wish the cable was a bit thinner, but yes, they do sound great!


----------



## BoomBap08 (Feb 16, 2018)

Oh trust me, brother @seanc6441, I got treble tolerance for daaaayysssss. Lol.

Also, I hate midbass blooms more than treble spikes. My head aches after I while listening to heavy bass productions.

Anyway, thanks for the help! Really appreciate it. Now, my only problem is where to get extra funds for that bk. Lolol.

*Extra overtimes here I come.


----------



## chinmie

BoomBap08 said:


> Oh trust me, brother @seanc6441, I got treble tolerance for daaaayysssss. Lol.
> 
> Also, I hate midbass blooms more than treble spikes. My head aches after I while listening to heavy bass productions.
> 
> ...



Looks like my kind of tuning


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 17, 2018)

Ceteru said:


> Ah I see. Well Penon does provide a fair amount of foams out of the box, so it might be worth trying.





BoomBap08 said:


> Oh trust me, brother @seanc6441, I got treble tolerance for daaaayysssss. Lol.
> 
> Also, I hate midbass blooms more than treble spikes. My head aches after I while listening to heavy bass productions.
> 
> ...


The only time the bk sounded boomy to me was with heigi thick donut foams because they sealed so much. With normal or thin foams I found the bass to be tight well controlled, maybe slightly monotonous (not a distinct divide of sub and mid bass) but I liked it a lot. It’s got bass for sure but it’s very well mannered bass, definitely wouldn’t call it boomy at all!

Anything with a bass beat like drums etc sounded clean and energetic/punchy rather than muddy or boomy.


----------



## j4100 (Feb 17, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Qian 39 = 16.3mm
> Qian 69 = 16.8mm
> Seahf AWK-F150C = 16.8mm
> **** PT15 = 16.35mm
> ...



...and a couple I had to hand. I'll do the others some other time. Rounded up or down to the nearest 0.1 mm, unless it was in the middle.

Shozy BK = 16.1mm
Blox B320 = 16.9mm
MX760 Graphene (old version) = 16.95mm

That Toneking is tiny


----------



## seanc6441

j4100 said:


> ...and a couple I had to hand. I'll do the others some other time. Rounded up or down to the nearest 0.1 mm, unless it was in the middle.
> 
> Shozy BK = 16.1mm
> Blox B320 = 16.9mm
> ...


Surprised the monk and seahf measure differently, one would assume all mx500 buds share the same dimensions! Although I heard it before I was still skeptical lol.


----------



## vladstef

seanc6441 said:


> Surprised the monk and seahf measure differently, one would assume all mx500 buds share the same dimensions! Although I heard it before I was still skeptical lol.



Can you even notice a 0.1mm difference? It is probably due to a different plastic thickness.


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> ...and a couple I had to hand. I'll do the others some other time. Rounded up or down to the nearest 0.1 mm, unless it was in the middle.
> 
> Shozy BK = 16.1mm
> Blox B320 = 16.9mm
> ...



Cool...thanks.  I will do mine tomorrow...busy today throwing away loads of iem and bud packaging.  Too bad about all the headphone boxes in the attic 

I do find the  Seahf slightly more comfortable than the Monk...something is not quite the same.  My graphene (new) does feel the same as my Monks.

I have not yet spent time with either of my Tonekings.  Sometimes I wish I did not have so much stuff.


----------



## j4100

The Heavenly Sounds Genesis and King Interlude, both Willsound Mk1 and 2, ABnormal Duotres, ELi Vajiac, and Earbud Thailand Black Lion are all MX500 shells and measured 16.9mm, though the Lion was 16.8mm. Shell batch size probably varies slightly. I think all of the others I have are probably MX500 shells as well.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Cool...thanks.  I will do mine tomorrow...busy today throwing away loads of iem and bud packaging.  Too bad about all the headphone boxes in the attic
> 
> I do find the  Seahf slightly more comfortable than the Monk...something is not quite the same.  My graphene (new) does feel the same as my Monks.
> 
> I have not yet spent time with either of my Tonekings.  Sometimes I wish I did not have so much stuff.


Right I know I good fix for that! Just send all your extra gear my way for safe keeping


----------



## hex182

seanc6441 said:


> It would be incredibly difficult to say the least. The drivers are either glued or press fit into the front piece somehow and require some force to remove. The dilema is using enough force to pry the driver out without damaging it. You could try a heat gun/hair dryer to help if it’s glued.
> 
> Although I recommend a different method where you have the driver/front piece removed from the rest of the shell, you may be able to use a pliers and cutters to break pieces off the edge of the front piece until the driver has nothing to grip into and you can remove it that way. Basically taking away small pieces of the front shell until the driver is liberated.
> 
> ...


My zen 2.0 cable gave up right where it exits one of the buds, after some ~2years of use. The cable is still in one piece but the damage is visible even from the outside which makes little sense as I know the cable is tough from past experience and if it would have been caused by regular use I would have expected to see something on the other side as well but it looks like new.
Anyway, I was hoping the rewire them but even with heat applied the zen's shell cracked, both parts of it. The drivers are in one piece and they work just fine so I thought I'll just use the shell from some cheap mx500, which open easily without cracking, but then I realised I don't know how to take the cheap driver out of the housing when the housing is intact so I ended up ordering new shells and now I'm waiting to see if I can put the driver without damaging it.


----------



## wskl

seanc6441 said:


> Surprised the monk and seahf measure differently, one would assume all mx500 buds share the same dimensions! Although I heard it before I was still skeptical lol.





vladstef said:


> Can you even notice a 0.1mm difference? It is probably due to a different plastic thickness.



I have also noticed size inconsistencies with the MX500 shell, my Monk+ and Vido fit my ears pretty well but my TY HI-Z 32 has a more snug fit.


----------



## Raketen (Feb 18, 2018)

nvm


----------



## golov17

waynes world said:


> Am I the only one enjoying their Monk lite 120's? I'm talking nicely amped of course. I really like them. Any other impressions.. good or bad?


So good


----------



## WC Annihilus (Feb 18, 2018)

(Initially posted in the budget earbuds thread before realizing what I'm willing to pay might extend past the scope of that thread)

After 7 years my MX880's are finally starting to die and I'm looking for something new to replace them with.  I enjoy listening to a variety of genres including alternative rock (Paramore, Nano, Skillet, Fireflight), symphonic metal (Kamelot, Apocalyptica, Within Temptation), electropop (Imogen Heap, Ellie Goulding, Owl City), orchestra/soundtrack (Two Steps From Hell, Sawano Hiroyuki, Kanno Yugo), and various forms of electronic (Above & Beyond, eDIT, Klaypex, Feint, MrSuicideSheep mixes).  I'm not really familiar with sound descriptive terms, but I think I'm looking for something on the warm/balanced side of things.  Budget-wise lower would be nice, but I'm willing to go up to ~$100 if it's worth it and will last (not really looking to replace every year).

Reviews of the Penon BS1 have caught my eye though I haven't really looked at others yet


----------



## golov17

@WC Annihilus 
only in Pakistan
http://www.alfeesau.com/sennheiser-mx-880-earphones/


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> Right I know I good fix for that! Just send all your extra gear my way for safe keeping



No buds that I would part with


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> No buds that I would part with



My wife just pinched my Qian 39's as they fit better than her current buds and prefers them to her Apple thingies. I would have offered the ROS1,  but she wears them when she's in bed and they would take a real beating.


----------



## gazzington

golov17 said:


> @WC Annihilus
> only in Pakistan
> http://www.alfeesau.com/sennheiser-mx-880-earphones/


Those look decent. Do they have good sq?


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 18, 2018)

WC Annihilus said:


> (Initially posted in the budget earbuds thread before realizing what I'm willing to pay might extend past the scope of that thread)
> 
> After 7 years my MX880's are finally starting to die and I'm looking for something new to replace them with.  I enjoy listening to a variety of genres including alternative rock (Paramore, Nano, Skillet, Fireflight), symphonic metal (Kamelot, Apocalyptica, Within Temptation), electropop (Imogen Heap, Ellie Goulding, Owl City), orchestra/soundtrack (Two Steps From Hell, Sawano Hiroyuki, Kanno Yugo), and various forms of electronic (Above & Beyond, eDIT, Klaypex, Feint, MrSuicideSheep mixes).  I'm not really familiar with sound descriptive terms, but I think I'm looking for something on the warm/balanced side of things.  Budget-wise lower would be nice, but I'm willing to go up to ~$100 if it's worth it and will last (not really looking to replace every year).
> 
> Reviews of the Penon BS1 have caught my eye though I haven't really looked at others yet


Can you handle some treble? And what’s your source? You may love the toneking tomahawk if your source has a warmer smoother presentation to balance out the tomahawk’s colder bright nature. It sounds amazing with metal/electronic and synthised music.

I think you would really love it with the right source. Especially considering your listening preferences. It may only be $35 but sometimes price is less important than pairing and the right signature for your music. This thing performs on the right gear with the right music like a boss.


----------



## Narayan23

Guys in the Sub $100 iem thread, some members are trying a "sideways insertion" of their earbuds to apparently great effect. I tried this and saw no benefit in my case, fiddly, less resolution and thinner bass, nevertheless I wanted to make you aware of it in case some of you hadn´t seen it and notice an improvement:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...ssions-sharing-reference-list.805930/page-468  post#7016

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...ssions-sharing-reference-list.805930/page-469   post#7027,  7028


----------



## mbwilson111

Narayan23 said:


> Guys in the Sub $100 iem thread, some members are trying a "sideways insertion" of their earbuds to apparently great effect. I tried this and saw no benefit in my case, fiddly, less resolution and thinner bass, nevertheless I wanted to make you aware of it in case some of you hadn´t seen it and notice an improvement:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...ssions-sharing-reference-list.805930/page-468  post#7016
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...ssions-sharing-reference-list.805930/page-469   post#7027,  7028



It does not work for me either.  In fact it is physically impossible for me.   But I was thinking that the info should be shared here.  Thanks for doing that.  Maybe some of the posters in this thread can post pictures if they are successful.  Maybe I am doing something wrong.


----------



## groucho69

Narayan23 said:


> Guys in the Sub $100 iem thread, some members are trying a "sideways insertion" of their earbuds to apparently great effect. I tried this and saw no benefit in my case, fiddly, less resolution and thinner bass, nevertheless I wanted to make you aware of it in case some of you hadn´t seen it and notice an improvement:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...ssions-sharing-reference-list.805930/page-468  post#7016
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...ssions-sharing-reference-list.805930/page-469   post#7027,  7028



Are you sure you are doing it correctly?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 18, 2018)

groucho69 said:


> Are you sure you are doing it correctly?



We need everyone to share photographs.  For me there is no space.  Too small inner area, too flat and that part is too rigid on my ear.


----------



## Narayan23

groucho69 said:


> Are you sure you are doing it correctly?



Hey groucho, yes I tried and f..k me sideways with an earbud but my ears aren´t cut out for this.


----------



## chinmie

Narayan23 said:


> Guys in the Sub $100 iem thread, some members are trying a "sideways insertion" of their earbuds to apparently great effect. I tried this and saw no benefit in my case, fiddly, less resolution and thinner bass, nevertheless I wanted to make you aware of it in case some of you hadn´t seen it and notice an improvement:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...ssions-sharing-reference-list.805930/page-468  post#7016
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...ssions-sharing-reference-list.805930/page-469   post#7027,  7028



i don't really like using the earbuds that way. not that i can't use it like that (my ears are large enough to fit **** sideways), but it will increase treble while reducing bass response


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> i don't really like using the earbuds that way. not that i can't use it like that (my ears are large enough to fit **** sideways), but it will increase treble while reducing bass response


Yeah I think any perceived boost in clarity is because the lower frequencies are reduced/ less resonance off the ear and more direct firing of sound into the ear so soundstage will probably be affected.

I guess doing this makes them sound more like IEM’s in terms of sound presentation without the isolation.


----------



## zeta555

still burn in, but I'm very impressed with the poseidon.


----------



## j4100

zeta555 said:


> still burn in, but I'm very impressed with the poseidon.


Nice. Did you get it terminated with a 4.4.mm trrs?


----------



## zeta555

j4100 said:


> Nice. Did you get it terminated with a 4.4.mm trrs?


yeah, my first 4.4mm out of the box buds!


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Yeah I think any perceived boost in clarity is because the lower frequencies are reduced/ less resonance off the ear and more direct firing of sound into the ear so soundstage will probably be affected.
> 
> I guess doing this makes them sound more like IEM’s in terms of sound presentation without the isolation.



One more thing to add: i used to wear the mrice e100 sideways like this, it resulted in hurting my ears (it's like suddenly i heard water sloshing inside my ears). I concluded that is the cause, because that is the only time in my life i experienced it. I stopped doing that again, and to this day i never had that ear problem again


----------



## WC Annihilus

golov17 said:


> @WC Annihilus
> only in Pakistan
> http://www.alfeesau.com/sennheiser-mx-880-earphones/


Thanks for finding that.  While I do like my MX880's a lot, I think it's time to move on from them, particularly because they had one feature that was rather annoying in the crappy volume control.


seanc6441 said:


> Can you handle some treble? And what’s your source? You may love the toneking tomahawk if your source has a warmer smoother presentation to balance out the tomahawk’s colder bright nature. It sounds amazing with metal/electronic and synthised music.
> 
> I think you would really love it with the right source. Especially considering your listening preferences. It may only be $35 but sometimes price is less important than pairing and the right signature for your music. This thing performs on the right gear with the right music like a boss.


I listen from a Cowon J3, not really sure how it's considered.


----------



## groucho69

chinmie said:


> i don't really like using the earbuds that way. not that i can't use it like that (my ears are large enough to fit **** sideways), but it will increase treble while reducing bass response



For me the bass is improved. I can even feel it.


----------



## chinmie

groucho69 said:


> For me the bass is improved. I can even feel it.



It's great that it work out for you. I know that it also work out to many people, but sadly this method is not working out for me


----------



## vladstef

seanc6441 said:


> Yeah I think any perceived boost in clarity is because the lower frequencies are reduced/ less resonance off the ear and more direct firing of sound into the ear so soundstage will probably be affected.
> 
> I guess doing this makes them sound more like IEM’s in terms of sound presentation without the isolation.



You should never have a full seal with earbuds, not only is it dangerous to your ears but also completely ruins the sound as the driver membrane can not take that pressure given that all of earbuds are designed for compensation in mind (for some of the lower frequencies leaking).
For me, putting buds sideways makes them 10 times better - removes nasty treble peaks (that are present with all buds to some extent if I wear them normally), brings the bass up quite a bit but it doesn't reduce sound stage nor the open nature of sound. I also don't use any foams with MX shell and I need them for RX-1 which is a bit smaller and doesn't properly sit in my ear sideways without foams.

What ends up happening is this - only a couple of holes in MX front shell end up firing sound into surroundings, some of them are closed by my ear and most of them are directly shooting into my canal - compared to wearing them regularly where essentially most of the bass gets lost regardless of foams and some of the holes are closed, some shooting sideways in my ear yet most of that sound can't even enter my canal as the bud is blocking it and none of the holes are firing in my canal at all. I never had fitting issues with dozens of IEMs so my canal has quite the average position.


----------



## seanc6441

vladstef said:


> You should never have a full seal with earbuds, not only is it dangerous to your ears but also completely ruins the sound as the driver membrane can not take that pressure given that all of earbuds are designed for compensation in mind (for some of the lower frequencies leaking).
> For me, putting buds sideways makes them 10 times better - removes nasty treble peaks (that are present with all buds to some extent if I wear them normally), brings the bass up quite a bit but it doesn't reduce sound stage nor the open nature of sound. I also don't use any foams with MX shell and I need them for RX-1 which is a bit smaller and doesn't properly sit in my ear sideways without foams.
> 
> What ends up happening is this - only a couple of holes in MX front shell end up firing sound into surroundings, some of them are closed by my ear and most of them are directly shooting into my canal - compared to wearing them regularly where essentially most of the bass gets lost regardless of foams and some of the holes are closed, some shooting sideways in my ear yet most of that sound can't even enter my canal as the bud is blocking it and none of the holes are firing in my canal at all. I never had fitting issues with dozens of IEMs so my canal has quite the average position.


It never truly seals fully. At least in my experience. It’s impactful and airy.


----------



## Danneq

groucho69 said:


> Are you sure you are doing it correctly?



Now that we are talking about inserting things, that sounds like something my wife would say...


----------



## redkingjoe

zeta555 said:


> still burn in, but I'm very impressed with the poseidon.


I wanna buy Poseidon too. But the last time I look at the site, it was not available.

Where can I buy it?

Thanks!


----------



## zeta555

redkingjoe said:


> I wanna buy Poseidon too. But the last time I look at the site, it was not available.
> 
> Where can I buy it?
> 
> Thanks!


i bought it from a seller here who ordered it from taobao. 

but the last time I looked, the silver version is not available anymore. only the gold and platinum version which cost 10x the silver one.

this is the link :
https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/de...S7Mhc&id=560729580503&ns=1&abbucket=18#detail


----------



## redkingjoe

zeta555 said:


> i bought it from a seller here who ordered it from taobao.
> 
> but the last time I looked, the silver version is not available anymore. only the gold and platinum version which cost 10x the silver one.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your kindness.

Poseidon is the one that truly moves my heart. I can only afford the silver one.

I think I need to wait.


----------



## groucho69 (Feb 18, 2018)

chinmie said:


> It's great that it work out for you. I know that it also work out to many people, but sadly this method is not working out for me



I am sad for you my friend. For me it is much more comfortable and musical. I'm lucky to have the ears for it.


----------



## chinmie

Danneq said:


> Now that we are talking about inserting things, that sounds like something my wife would say...



Sooo... Inserting things sideways lately?


----------



## Danneq

chinmie said:


> Sooo... Inserting things sideways lately?



Well, not earbuds anyway...

And of course we are only refering to audio related stuff here.


----------



## ClieOS

redkingjoe said:


> Thanks for your kindness.
> 
> Poseidon is the one that truly moves my heart. I can only afford the silver one.
> 
> I think I need to wait.



If there is any consolation, the gold/platinum version should sound identical to the silver version, according to K's. The extra cost is really just for the individual custom order of the housing in expensive metal.


----------



## zeta555

redkingjoe said:


> Thanks for your kindness.
> 
> Poseidon is the one that truly moves my heart. I can only afford the silver one.
> 
> I think I need to wait.



I hope you can find them for sell somewhere! 



ClieOS said:


> If there is any consolation, the gold/platinum version should sound identical to the silver version, according to K's. The extra cost is really just for the individual custom order of the housing in expensive metal.


so it's confirmed that k's won't make the silver one again?


----------



## ClieOS

zeta555 said:


> ...
> so it's confirmed that k's won't make the silver one again?



That's what they announced.


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> That's what they announced.


It would’ve been an investment to purchase one then if that’s the case... With them being exclusive and the next option being 10x expensive, you could buy one knowing you’d  be atleast breaking even when you sold it 

Although it’s not set in stone with these companies about their future production plans.


----------



## WC Annihilus

seanc6441 said:


> Can you handle some treble? And what’s your source? You may love the toneking tomahawk if your source has a warmer smoother presentation to balance out the tomahawk’s colder bright nature. It sounds amazing with metal/electronic and synthised music.
> 
> I think you would really love it with the right source. Especially considering your listening preferences. It may only be $35 but sometimes price is less important than pairing and the right signature for your music. This thing performs on the right gear with the right music like a boss.


I read your conversation with @Ceteru when someone suggested the Tomahawk to him and I feel like his feelings more or less mirrored mine.  While a lot of the genres I listed are a bit metal or electronic in nature, the reality is I enjoy pretty much all music and listen to enough variety of genres that I think I'm looking for a strong all-arounder.  I want a single set of earbuds that'll do a solid job on anything I throw at it and will last.  Hence why I said I was intrigued by everyone's posts about the BS1 (your Reddit post was actually the first that caught my eye).


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 20, 2018)

WC Annihilus said:


> I read your conversation with @Ceteru when someone suggested the Tomahawk to him and I feel like his feelings more or less mirrored mine.  While a lot of the genres I listed are a bit metal or electronic in nature, the reality is I enjoy pretty much all music and listen to enough variety of genres that I think I'm looking for a strong all-arounder.  I want a single set of earbuds that'll do a solid job on anything I throw at it and will last.  Hence why I said I was intrigued by everyone's posts about the BS1 (your Reddit post was actually the first that caught my eye).


I’ve had my ups and downs with the bs1 because the sound is finicky with different foams and such.

If you buy a ve ex pack you can test many variants of foam to try. Or buy the cheap thin foams on aliexpress linked many times in the last few pages.

I think they have amazing potential with the right fit and source, although I cannot say they will sound great in every configuration whereas other buds may do so.

Same can be said about the masya but for my ears the bs1 fit was more tricky, it’s a bigger shell (mx500 size) probably close to your original earbuds.

Yeah you can’t go wrong for the price it’s great, but it’s really special with the right setup and I’m hoping my new cayin dap will be the right setup when I receive it tomorrow.

And yes, I’m very particular about having a perfectly ‘natural’ sound and whilst I think these are slightly coloured in the upper mids/tower treble they can sound pretty damn good overall.

The main bonus being the exceptional depth and imaging in the soundstage, I suggest a wide sounding source to get the most out of the width for separation.

I’m wearing them overear now, with the original monk foam and another donut monk foam on top (not obstructing the vent).

The sound is improved wearing them over ear ‘upside down’ I don’t know why. Vocals sound better and the soundstage sounds more natural out of head. The monk thin foams make it incredibly airy, yet the double foams also provide bass impact and the vents on the back aren’t blocked much.

I kepting trying to change foams etc with this earbud because I wasn’t fully happy when I knew it can do better, now I feel like it’s at its best and sounds remarkably like a full size headphone on your ears.


----------



## Ceteru (Feb 20, 2018)

WC Annihilus said:


> I read your conversation with @Ceteru when someone suggested the Tomahawk to him and I feel like his feelings more or less mirrored mine.  While a lot of the genres I listed are a bit metal or electronic in nature, the reality is I enjoy pretty much all music and listen to enough variety of genres that I think I'm looking for a strong all-arounder.  I want a single set of earbuds that'll do a solid job on anything I throw at it and will last.  Hence why I said I was intrigued by everyone's posts about the BS1 (your Reddit post was actually the first that caught my eye).





seanc6441 said:


> I’ve had my ups and downs with the bs1 because the sound is finicky with different foams and such.
> 
> If you buy a ve ex pack you can test many variants of foam to try. Or buy the cheap thin foams on aliexpress linked many times in the last few pages.
> 
> ...



Hey man, if you are like me and you listen to a wide variety of music, I would HIGHLY suggest the BS1. It's very versatile and I can listen to anything on them without worry. Just this morning at work I've listened to Black Crown Initiate (progressive death metal), Major Lazer (pop/hip-hop), Madeon (EDM), and a few other artists, all on the BS1, and all without ever getting the feeling of "man, I need a different set of buds for this song".

Since you said metal and electronic are your two main genres of music, I can confirm that the BS1 has enough bass to enjoy both (basslines in metal and bass kicks in electronic), a non-fatiguing treble for cymbals and hi-hats (as long as you use foams), and accurate and tonally pleasant mids for vocals and guitars. There's good separation of instruments too, so I don't feel overwhelmed when a song gets complex (which both metal and electronic songs can do depending on the artist).

I know Sean recommends just the right setup, but for me personally, I've been able to use them with anything with no complaints.

@seanc6441 You pulled the trigger?! Congrats man, definitely let us know how you like the new source (make sure to take some glamour shots ).


----------



## seanc6441

Ceteru said:


> Hey man, if you are like me and you listen to a wide variety of music, I would HIGHLY suggest the BS1. It's very versatile and I can listen to anything on them without worry. Just this morning at work I've listened to Black Crown Initiate (progressive death metal), Major Lazer (pop/hip-hop), Madeon (EDM), and a few other artists, all on the BS1, and all without ever getting the feeling of "man, I need a different set of buds for this song".
> 
> Since you said metal and electronic are your two main genres of music, I can confirm that the BS1 has enough bass to enjoy both (basslines in metal and bass kicks in electronic), a non-fatiguing treble for cymbals and hi-hats (as long as you use foams), and accurate and tonally pleasant mids for vocals and guitars. There's good separation of instruments too, so I don't feel overwhelmed when a song gets complex (which both metal and electronic songs can do depending on the artist).
> 
> ...


Sorry forgot to say it to you, got it on amazon it arrives tomorrow and I’ll let you know what I think 

If you find any more ve ex pack original thin foams you can try this setup and wear them overear like an IEM sorta. It’s leagues ahead in terms of soundstage width and airy presentation than any other setup.


 

I really cannot explain why the sound changed so much, but it does.

If I wear them downwards the thin foam makes the mids a little shouty snd treble too much, this method keeps that in check and improves the sound so much.

The dude at penon actually suggested me to wear it like this when I was talking about the heavy cable, I didn’t pay attention to it at the time but I should’ve.


----------



## WC Annihilus

Ceteru said:


> Hey man, if you are like me and you listen to a wide variety of music, I would HIGHLY suggest the BS1. It's very versatile and I can listen to anything on them without worry. Just this morning at work I've listened to Black Crown Initiate (progressive death metal), Major Lazer (pop/hip-hop), Madeon (EDM), and a few other artists, all on the BS1, and all without ever getting the feeling of "man, I need a different set of buds for this song".
> 
> Since you said metal and electronic are your two main genres of music, I can confirm that the BS1 has enough bass to enjoy both (basslines in metal and bass kicks in electronic), a non-fatiguing treble for cymbals and hi-hats (as long as you use foams), and accurate and tonally pleasant mids for vocals and guitars. There's good separation of instruments too, so I don't feel overwhelmed when a song gets complex (which both metal and electronic songs can do depending on the artist).
> 
> ...


I actually think rock in various forms probably edges out those two in my playlist.  Plenty of acoustic, OST, and pop stuff in there as well


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> Sorry forgot to say it to you, got it on amazon it arrives tomorrow and I’ll let you know what I think
> 
> If you find any more ve ex pack original thin foams you can try this setup and wear them overear like an IEM sorta. It’s leagues ahead in terms of soundstage width and airy presentation than any other setup.
> 
> ...



I actually wear them like that from time to time; the sound does change for the better. Haha it's kinda like that sideways insert method mentioned a bit earlier in the thread except I can actually do this one 



WC Annihilus said:


> I actually think rock in various forms probably edges out those two in my playlist.  Plenty of acoustic, OST, and pop stuff in there as well



Rock works too; I listen to Alter Bridge, Stone Temple Pilots, and others. I would still recommend the BS1 as an all-rounder in that case.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 20, 2018)

Ceteru said:


> I actually wear them like that from time to time; the sound does change for the better. Haha it's kinda like that sideways insert method mentioned a bit earlier in the thread except I can actually do this one
> 
> 
> 
> Rock works too; I listen to Alter Bridge, Stone Temple Pilots, and others. I would still recommend the BS1 as an all-rounder in that case.


Yeah bs1 handles everything tbh. Pretty much an all rounder.

And yeah over ear I feel the sound is more transparent/effortless and the vocals are more forward and engaging. Dynamics inprove too.

It sounded congested the other way in comparison to this + the super thin foams.


----------



## chinmie

All earbuds and iems worn over ears will sound lighter airier, because it is not pushing down it's weight too much toward the cavum part of the ears, which to me seem to play large part in receiving bass vibration/rumble feel.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 20, 2018)

chinmie said:


> All earbuds and iems worn over ears will sound lighter airier, because it is not pushing down it's weight too much toward the cavum part of the ears, which to me seem to play large part in receiving bass vibration/rumble feel.


The bass has remained strong though, although between the airiness and vocals being presented more forward and much more engaging and the soundstage becoming bigger and having a more round the head presentation to rival or surpass the masya imo, this is just a new level to this earbud. It has only one flaw being the less than natural upper mids emphasis but it's not detrimental or anything. Just something to stop me considering the signature reference flat/neutral.


----------



## Saoshyant

@waynes world Been busy with work and life, so haven't had time to do any real comparisons.  Doing a little back and forth between Zen 1 and Raven Mk 2, I'm surprised I feel the bass on the Raven more.  Keep in mind I don't have volume matching equipment, so take it for what you will.  Both have decent vocals, but not as forward as some other earbuds that aim to be vocal-centric.  Honestly, Raven Mk2 might be a good alternative to the Zen 1 for those who never got one or wish to baby theirs.  Haven't had much music time lately, so it's still not far along in the natural burn in process as I prefer to do it while listening.  Again, sorry for the delay.


----------



## waynes world

Saoshyant said:


> @waynes world Been busy with work and life, so haven't had time to do any real comparisons.  Doing a little back and forth between Zen 1 and Raven Mk 2, I'm surprised I feel the bass on the Raven more.  Keep in mind I don't have volume matching equipment, so take it for what you will.  Both have decent vocals, but not as forward as some other earbuds that aim to be vocal-centric.  Honestly, Raven Mk2 might be a good alternative to the Zen 1 for those who never got one or wish to baby theirs.  Haven't had much music time lately, so it's still not far along in the natural burn in process as I prefer to do it while listening.  Again, sorry for the delay.



Thanks! Those impressions are very helpful for me (and definitely no apologies necessary!). Thanks again.


----------



## jant71

chinmie said:


> All earbuds and iems worn over ears will sound lighter airier, because it is not pushing down it's weight too much toward the cavum part of the ears, which to me seem to play large part in receiving bass vibration/rumble feel.



 For myself personally and more of the impressions I read the opposite is true. Depends on ear anatomy but many more times things fit deeper and have more bass and warmth cause the arm/reliefs are not stopping/limiting the depth one can get vs. straight down. Thus the recommendation to wear over the ear to fix the treble heavy sound they were getting. With earbuds cable weight can make the top lean out letting the bass out the top. Over the ear many times stops that effect or a clip is needed to take the weight off.


----------



## PeterDLai

Has anybody compared the PENON BS1 Official Version to the HiFi Boy Dream yet?


----------



## chinmie

jant71 said:


> For myself personally and more of the impressions I read the opposite is true. Depends on ear anatomy but many more times things fit deeper and have more bass and warmth cause the arm/reliefs are not stopping/limiting the depth one can get vs. straight down. Thus the recommendation to wear over the ear to fix the treble heavy sound they were getting. With earbuds cable weight can make the top lean out letting the bass out the top. Over the ear many times stops that effect or a clip is needed to take the weight off.



True if like you said you can rest them low like that.  I can't do that and the earbuds always " float" abit making the bass lessened. Whereas when wearing them straight down i never have problems with the arm/ stem of the buds, as always have enough clearing for it. If not, i just tilt them slightly forward

I agree with you, it all depends on the individual's anatomy


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> True if like you said you can rest them low like that.  I can't do that and the earbuds always " float" abit making the bass lessened. Whereas when wearing them straight down i never have problems with the arm/ stem of the buds, as always have enough clearing for it. If not, i just tilt them slightly forward
> 
> I agree with you, it all depends on the individual's anatomy


and the shell design etc etc. lots of variables.

All I know is it sounds twice as good this way haha.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> and the shell design etc etc. lots of variables.
> 
> All I know is it sounds twice as good this way haha.



Not to mention now you have two different sounds from one buds, big bonus!


----------



## golov17

seanc6441 said:


> Sorry forgot to say it to you, got it on amazon it arrives tomorrow and I’ll let you know what I think
> 
> If you find any more ve ex pack original thin foams you can try this setup and wear them overear like an IEM sorta. It’s leagues ahead in terms of soundstage width and airy presentation than any other setup.
> 
> ...


I think that this is just a constructive miscalculation, the holes of damping are overlapped by the ear, which leads to less airiness, IMHO


----------



## ClieOS

Kind of running out of place in the 1st post to put pictures (apparently you can only put 40 pictures max in one post), so these have to be updated to the 3rd post.





Hifiboy Dream
K's Earphones 'Black Bell' (Black Ling) balanced
K's Earphones Beryllium driver 180ohm prototype (纯铍180欧工程版)
K's Earphones 'White Bell' (White Ling) balanced





K's Earphones K32
K's Earphones K300
K's Earphones K64





VE Monk Omega
VE Asura Omega
VE Zen Omega

Anyway, got these during CNY and I haven't actually had the time to finish listening to them, but I guess I'll have the picture up first.


----------



## kurtextrem

@ClieOS We'd love to hear Hifiboy Dream impressions!! Definitely


----------



## RobinFood

ClieOS said:


> Kind of running out of place in the 1st post to put pictures (apparently you can only put 40 pictures max in one post), so these have to be updated to the 3rd post.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





ClieOS said:


> Kind of running out of place in the 1st post to put pictures (apparently you can only put 40 pictures max in one post), so these have to be updated to the 3rd post.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'd love to know the difference between the white and black ling when you have time, and maybe short comparisons. 
I couldn't find many impressions of them, and they seem pretty good based on K's track record.


----------



## ClieOS

RobinFood said:


> I'd love to know the difference between the white and black ling when you have time, and maybe short comparisons.
> I couldn't find many impressions of them, and they seem pretty good based on K's track record.



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1809#post-13974642


----------



## chaiyuta

Penon BS1 Official rear shell is as same as Toneking Unicorn, so in my memory they share nearly same soundstage width, and I don't surprise why I can't tolerate its width of soundstage and finally I resold it. Perhaps I am spoiled with better things.


----------



## waynes world (Feb 21, 2018)

chinmie said:


> i want to also suggest the Radsone Earstudio, but unless they start selling again, i would only sound like a tease



I lost my BTR1 on Monday (it involved a mountain, skiis, deep powder <edit: add foolishness>... you get the picture), and Radsone just made their Earstudio available at amazon.ca this morning. Planetary alignment.

I hope it's really good so that I can rub it in to sean. Then again, he'll have the n5ii soon, so he'll probably be the one rubbing it in lol.


----------



## Saoshyant

waynes world said:


> I lost my BTR1 on Monday (it involved a mountain, skiis, deep powder <edit: add foolishness>... you get the picture), and Radsone just made their Earstudio available at amazon.ca this morning. Planetary alignment.
> 
> I hope it's really good so that I can rub it in to sean. Then again, he'll have the n5ii soon, so he'll probably be the one rubbing it in lol.



Hmm, while it's tempting, I can't think of a reason to own both it and the XB10.  The Earstudio really reminds me of a Clip by design.


----------



## Miknoboes

I recently bought two new earphones after experiencing what the VE monk plus had to offer for the price range. I decided to get the Fengru EMX500S (with blue cable) for fun and the DIY PK2 from a recommendation. I would like to make a short comparison between the monks and the EMX500s that I got. The PK2s are still in the air somewhere in the US.

Everyone here is rather knowledge of the Monk plus' sound signature as, for many, the monks are what got us here in the first place.
To MY ears (emphasis on MY):

For me, the Monks have very little low-end extension, weak but clean mid-bass response, forward mids - both male and female vocals sound wonderful on the monks with female vocals just edging out slightly, and the highs are detailed and spacious but when listening on high volumes, I found that the higher frequencies tend to get a little too hot at times.         

From my listening session with both the monks and the EMX500S, here are some direct sonic differences that I have noticed:
Bass:
The Fengru has much deeper subbass. The low end extension on this earphone is killer. I typically listen to Yosi Horikawa's : Wandering for a taste of subbass frequencies and wow did this earbud shock me. I never really expected the subbass to reach this deep on an earphone which in some cases even beats out some of my leaner iems. 
The midbass was well done and I could clearly tell from the overall sound sig that this earbud was more focused on the bass than any other frequency (compared to the monks).
However, that came with some caveats. 

Mids:
To me, the Fengru mids were just not as magical as the monk mids. I do prefer a forward midrange and the lower mids on the Fengru were a little too distant for my absolute pleasure. Don't get me wrong however, the mids are still very intelligible and I found that the tiny amount of bass bleed unto the mids were very very negligible. As a result though, the lower mids were distant and I found that Dean, a Korean R&B artist I love, didn't have the same magical buttery smooth and lush vocal presence on the EMX500S when listening to his new song: Instagram compared to the monks. Female vocals were better as they were more forward than the male vocals and cello and higher piano notes sounded wonderful. Overall, the mids are to me a mixed bag. The male vocal representation (which is my personal favorite zone) was not up to my standards but they were very intelligible and clear, it was just a personal preference thing for me. The female vocals were great, still somewhat distant, but still much more manageable to me than the lower mid range.

Treble: 
The Fengru are very laid back in terms of the treble. Coming from the monks, which were just slightly a bit too hot for my ears at high volumes, the Fengru has less treble extension and that led to a very laid back earphone sound signature. I can see myself blasting the Fengrus and not worrying too much about fatigue as I would have given I was listening to the monks. Coming from the monks, the EMX500S were slightly lacking and didn't have the sparkle I was looking for. Nonetheless, I felt the treble was still adequate and that the laid back treble was a bonus for extended listening sessions. The electronic music list that I use to test higher frequencies just felt slightly constricting to me however coming from the monks.

I honestly do not know how to gauge the size of the soundstage nor do I know how to accurately say whether the imaging was good or bad but I never felt that the soundstage was congested like when I listen to some closed back headphones and some IEMs. The imaging seemed to be very good from my ignorant experience.

I would also like to add that I did not do any foam-rolling of any sort. I used the stock foams that came with the EMX500s and I used the stock thin monk foams on the monks.

Overall, I think that the Fengru EMX 500S are a wonderful set of earbuds that for the price, have a definite positive value. Personally for me, the lower-mid range was slightly distant but the subbass and the midbass on these were just awesome compared to the Monks. I definitely think that the EMX500S do make a very good complementary earbud to the monks as they are perfect for more modern, slightly low-end emphasized music intended for long listening sessions whereas the monks I thought were perfect for more vocal driven detailed music. Hope that helps for people who are thinking of getting the EMX500S and who only have the monks to compare with. I am not an audiophile and I do not have the best ears. These are my personal impressions so take everything I said with a grain of salt. With that in mind, the Fengru EMX500S are pretty darn good for the price they are offered at. I can't wait to get the PK2s as those are the earbuds i'm really waiting for. Listen on everyone!


----------



## waynes world

Saoshyant said:


> Hmm, while it's tempting, I can't think of a reason to own both it and the XB10.  The Earstudio really reminds me of a Clip by design.



Go skiing in powder with your XB10. Then you can get the Earstudio


----------



## Saoshyant

HA.  It falls under my no way in hell am I taking that into a risky situation gear as I really do like it.  I'd probably go skiing with one of my small daps so if it dies it dies.


----------



## thehypewan (Feb 21, 2018)

Hello! This is my first post...I have been a long time lurker and I have learned a lot from this 1900 page thread on earbud round ups.

I recently purchased the Rose Mojito for a great deal on eBay.  However, when I tried them on and compared them to my existing headphones, it didn't come off to me as "better than the rest" given the hype they have been given.

I tested them vs the Monk+, Cygnus, BK.  The Mojito in my opinion is worse [to me] than the Cygnus and BK.  I love those two so much.  I'm listening on the FiiO Q5 via USB and using Spotify Premium [streaming OGG if I recall correctly].  The Mojito has been revered by many enthusiasts and some reviewers say it rivals some good quality headphones.  When I go home from work today I will try to compare them with my HE-400i, DT770p, M50s just to see if it is even comparable.

A big concern I have is the Mojito I have looks different from the ones I see for sale by retailers, I can't find a picture online of the one I received so I'm questioning it's authenticity.  The sibilance is crazy, all the highs blend with each other to create a white noise-like sound and really fatiguing to listen to at my normal listening volume.  It is really disappointing to listen with and had to take them off at work today to swap back to my Shozy BKs.

Here's the eBay sale I purchased from: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rose-Technics-Mojito-HiFi-Earbuds-Dual-Dynamic-Driver-amp-Case-Rose-Mojito-/162890135198?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&nma=true&si=vxp2OzjDqG%2BFAeTAts3ct9CdQOs%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Can y'all give me a little feedback on your experience with the Mojito and let me know if you've seen the design of the one I bought?  I appreciate it!

edit: An immediate example of my concern is I can't listen to the whole track of Get Up - Technotronic because the up-beat hi-hats going the entire track is so rich where my ears are fatigued by just a minute in.


----------



## Saoshyant

I haven't seen that particular design, as I'm only aware of two.  The Masya which came out after has at least 3 designs I know of, so it's still quite possible it's a limited release design, or a newer one that hasn't been posted yet.  I'm not one to cry fake, so I'd still hold out hope for now.  Hopefully someone with more knowledge can shine some light.


----------



## waynes world

thehypewan said:


> edit: An immediate example of my concern is I can't listen to the whole track of Get Up - Technotronic because the up-beat hi-hats going the entire track is so rich where my ears are fatigued by just a minute in.



Wow - been a while since I heard that one lol! Hi hats sound fine with my Vmoda M100's


----------



## thehypewan

Saoshyant said:


> I haven't seen that particular design, as I'm only aware of two.  The Masya which came out after has at least 3 designs I know of, so it's still quite possible it's a limited release design, or a newer one that hasn't been posted yet.  I'm not one to cry fake, so I'd still hold out hope for now.  Hopefully someone with more knowledge can shine some light.



Yes, I've only seen two designs as well.  I sent a message to the seller to see if he can provide me some info on them.  The seller is not offering refunds.


----------



## thehypewan

waynes world said:


> Wow - been a while since I heard that one lol! Hi hats sound fine with my Vmoda M100's



Yes! It came on my playlist a few minutes ago and very noticeable ringing the whole song so I wanted to add that to my post.  I listened to it again with my BK, which are my daily drivers right now, and it was much better.


----------



## silverfishla

thehypewan said:


> Hello! This is my first post...I have been a long time lurker and I have learned a lot from this 1900 page thread on earbud round ups.
> 
> I recently purchased the Rose Mojito for a great deal on eBay.  However, when I tried them on and compared them to my existing headphones, it didn't come off to me as "better than the rest" given the hype they have been given.
> 
> ...


I would ask the seller when he bought these Rose Mojito's.  I have had mine for over a year and a few months, and they have the stuck on faceplate on the side.  I recall (fuzzy memory) that when I was looking to buy these (11.11 sale 2016) there may have been pictures with this outer shell design still up on Penon Audio.  I'm thinking that these may be the original version of these buds.  I may be wrong.  You might want to ask @Golov or @ClieOS since they've had theirs for some time now.  Maybe they might know.  I also do not recognize that cable as one that has been offered since I bought mine.  You may go back on this thread, maybe there is a picture that might help...


----------



## chinmie

Saoshyant said:


> I can't think of a reason to own both it and the XB10



If you already have xb10 then it is unnecessary to have the earstudio also. The only advantage i think is that the earstudio works as a usb dac for phones while the xb10 (as far as i know) cannnot



thehypewan said:


> The sibilance is crazy, all the highs blend with each other to create a white noise-like sound and really fatiguing to listen to at my normal listening volume. It is really disappointing to listen with and had to take them off at work today to swap back to my Shozy BKs.



My friend have that particular version, and your description on how it sound was spot on. I think i can only stand listening to them for classical music. Vocals and modern music was unbearable.


----------



## chaiyuta

@thehypewan : that rear shell and painted logo is another iteration of rose mojito if you buy directly from the official rose taobao store. It is genuine one. Among stock cable, I ever tried copper-silver twisted inside insulator cable one. That is quite decent one. Not only Masya even Rose Mojito, there is a few minor iteration on each batch as well. This is beyond my experience. Some said he prefer 2014 batch over 2016 bacth and vice versa something likes that.
My humble suggestion is to try the well-known brand upgraded cables. However, if you are cable hater, do ignore my suggestion and resale your rose mojito.


----------



## golov17

@thehypewan 
as far as I know, these Mojito are legal, but  as for the signature of the sound, I always said that they are not suitable for vocal genres of music (Masya is more universal for this, IMHO). Try them with thick foams over rubber rings, also try changing the polarity of connecting the detachable cable.


----------



## thehypewan

golov17 said:


> @thehypewan
> as far as I know, these Mojito are legal, but  as for the signature of the sound, I always said that they are not suitable for vocal genres of music (Masya is more universal for this, IMHO). Try them with thick foams over rubber rings, also try changing the polarity of connecting the detachable cable.



Thank you y'all for your input! This community is for sure the best.  @golov17 would you say this model of the Mojito comparable to one all the reviewers rave about? Or should i sell this one to get the newer model to get the experience im aiming for?


----------



## golov17

I would not worry much about cosmetic changes


----------



## thehypewan

@golov17 is it cosmetic changes only? All Mojito designs are sonically the same? If so, i will be more fair to these and give them a good listen.


----------



## zeta555

if i'm not mistaken mojito is basically made to order. you can custom it to an extent if you order it to the original builder, not from reseller.


----------



## seanc6441

golov17 said:


> I think that this is just a constructive miscalculation, the holes of damping are overlapped by the ear, which leads to less airiness, IMHO


I didn’t find the holes obstructed wearing them down or up, but it’s likely fir some ears that’s the case, I think that the direction o


chaiyuta said:


> Penon BS1 Official rear shell is as same as Toneking Unicorn, so in my memory they share nearly same soundstage width, and I don't surprise why I can't tolerate its width of soundstage and finally I resold it. Perhaps I am spoiled with better things.


Did you happen to try it upside down first and with the monk thin (original foans)? The soundstage opens up to impressive levels imo. Comparable to the Rose Masya or greater.


----------



## seanc6441

golov17 said:


> I think that this is just a constructive miscalculation, the holes of damping are overlapped by the ear, which leads to less airiness, IMHO


I didn’t find the holes obstructed wearing them down or up, but it’s likely fir some ears that’s the case, I think that the direction o


seobon said:


> I recently bought two new earphones after experiencing what the VE monk plus had to offer for the price range. I decided to get the Fengru EMX500S (with blue cable) for fun and the DIY PK2 from a recommendation. I would like to make a short comparison between the monks and the EMX500s that I got. The PK2s are still in the air somewhere in the US.
> 
> Everyone here is rather knowledge of the Monk plus' sound signature as, for many, the monks are what got us here in the first place.
> To MY ears (emphasis on MY):
> ...


Try the monk thin foams on your emx500 and report back, you’ll get improved treble, detail and midrange may sound more upfront depending on the fit in your ear.

You may really enjoy that combo.


----------



## Danneq

thehypewan said:


> The sibilance is crazy, all the highs blend with each other to create a white noise-like sound and really fatiguing to listen to at my normal listening volume.
> 
> edit: An immediate example of my concern is I can't listen to the whole track of Get Up - Technotronic because the up-beat hi-hats going the entire track is so rich where my ears are fatigued by just a minute in.




That's pretty much my exact experiences of Rose Mojito and the main reason I sold them. I am a bit sensitive to sharp highs and on Mojito they are in overabundance.

It might just be that they are not for you, and you have other sound preferences than a focus on extended highs...

(I bought my pair of Mojito from Penon)


----------



## redkingjoe

thehypewan said:


> Hello! This is my first post...I have been a long time lurker and I have learned a lot from this 1900 page thread on earbud round ups.
> 
> I recently purchased the Rose Mojito for a great deal on eBay.  However, when I tried them on and compared them to my existing headphones, it didn't come off to me as "better than the rest" given the hype they have been given.
> 
> ...



Frankly, Shozy BK is one of the very best and hard to beat!


----------



## redkingjoe

Danneq said:


> Something for those who are interested in vintage earbuds. The auction might be interesting to follow. Any guesses on final price?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/273071596761?ul_noapp=true



US$500, including shipping!


----------



## thehypewan

thehypewan said:


> @golov17 is it cosmetic changes only? All Mojito designs are sonically the same? If so, i will be more fair to these and give them a good listen.



I'm going to lean on that these are the early renditions of the Gen 2 model (the model everyone knows; with the rectangle ROSE badge on the shell. I fiddled around with this one a little bit and actually chipped off a piece of the ROSE "sticker" on my model, kind of sad because I thought it was protective film.


----------



## thehypewan




----------



## Greutel

Can someone tell if the Headroom MS16 controls/mic work on a Windows PC? I have one of these 2in1 Headset Ports on my notebook and my Apple Earpods don't work. Will android headsets work?


----------



## Saoshyant

Greutel said:


> Can someone tell if the Headroom MS16 controls/mic work on a Windows PC? I have one of these 2in1 Headset Ports on my notebook and my Apple Earpods don't work. Will android headsets work?



Using Dell Venue 11 Pro, volume and mic work using the MS16.  I can try with my laptop later if you'd like, it's also a Dell.


----------



## Greutel

Thanks a lot! I think windows only understands the android coding of the controls because Apple has an own proprietary standard. Good that the MS16 can do both! They have gone up in price a little bit so i think they are growing in popularity.


----------



## audio123

Glad to see you guys here enjoying the Penon BS1 Official! 
When I first hear the Penon BS1 Official, I cannot quite believe the stage presence along with its matured & natural sound. 
Now, the Penon BS1 Official is my go-to earbud. I feel slightly guilty for leaving my other earbuds aside.


----------



## seanc6441

audio123 said:


> Glad to see you guys here enjoying the Penon BS1 Official!
> When I first hear the Penon BS1 Official, I cannot quite believe the stage presence along with its matured & natural sound.
> Now, the Penon BS1 Official is my go-to earbud. I feel slightly guilty for leaving my other earbuds aside.


have you tried it ‘over ear’ with thin foams? Brought out a whole new level of soundstage and signature for me.


----------



## audio123

seanc6441 said:


> have you tried it ‘over ear’ with thin foams? Brought out a whole new level of soundstage and signature for me.


I will try it soon. Thanks for the tip!


----------



## cocolinho

question about the Penon BS1: are they leaking a lot of sound? Would be perfect if they behave the same as my EMX500 : they sound marvellous & they don't leak so that's perfect for my office.


----------



## redkingjoe

Danneq said:


> Something for those who are interested in vintage earbuds. The auction might be interesting to follow. Any guesses on final price?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/273071596761?ul_noapp=true



This one is even more interesting, ending in less than 24 hours! 

Final price?


----------



## Ceteru

cocolinho said:


> question about the Penon BS1: are they leaking a lot of sound? Would be perfect if they behave the same as my EMX500 : they sound marvellous & they don't leak so that's perfect for my office.


No, in my experience, they are not very leaky, if at all. I haven't done any serious testing, but nobody in my workplace (or my wife sitting next to me at home) has ever complained even when I have them cranked up a good bit.


----------



## San Man

audio123 said:


> Glad to see you guys here enjoying the Penon BS1 Official!
> When I first hear the Penon BS1 Official, I cannot quite believe the stage presence along with its matured & natural sound.
> Now, the Penon BS1 Official is my go-to earbud. I feel slightly guilty for leaving my other earbuds aside.


Serious looking cable for an earbud!


----------



## Moonstar

*Penon BS1 Official /\ NiceHCK EBX /\ K'S 300 Samsara

 

 

 

 
*


----------



## rkw

San Man said:


> Serious looking cable for an earbud!


Actually a little too serious (stiff).


----------



## Danneq (Feb 24, 2018)

redkingjoe said:


> This one is even more interesting, ending in less than 24 hours!
> 
> Final price?




Crazy! I sold my pair for a little less than $300 with shipping!


Edit: Now the price has almost doubled!

Soundwise they are good but NO WAY would I pay over $400 for a pair in good cosmetic conditíon. My pair had a small crack in the housing and other small blemishes. Sound wasn't affected, though.

You could get a pair of CAX Red Dragon for a little over $700 and it completely blows away E282. However, Red Dragon is not a collector's item in the same sense as vintage Sony earbuds...


----------



## euge

Moonstar said:


> *Penon BS1 Official /\ NiceHCK EBX /\ K'S 300 Samsara
> *




How does the EBX compare to the BS1? Thinking of picking up the EBX too..


----------



## Moonstar

euge said:


> How does the EBX compare to the BS1? Thinking of picking up the EBX too..


The EBX sound brighter and has less body. The vocal presentation on the BS1 is more forward and the detail level is pretty similar. My new favourite is the BS1 Official for sound, build quality and packaging, but the EBX has the advantage of having the option to change the cable.


----------



## Vixox314

Monk Lite 120 ohm silver/white edition in stock again, 18 left


----------



## HungryPanda

NiceHCK EBX is one of my favourite earbuds, got a little more oomph than my OurArt Ti7's


----------



## waynes world

rkw said:


> Actually a little too serious (stiff).



Looks that way to me. As good as they apparently are, the cable would probably be somewhat of a deterrence for me (unless I got them mainly for "at the computer" listening).


----------



## HungryPanda

waynes world said:


> Looks that way to me. As good as they apparently are, the cable would probably be somewhat of a deterrence for me (unless I got them mainly for "at the computer" listening).


 or just to keep them for yourself perhaps


----------



## j4100

I'm enjoying the "free" zen lite at the moment. Haven't yet decided whether best with or without foams


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 24, 2018)

Penon BS1 cable isn’t stiff to me anyway. About an average amount of flex, but it feels nice and doesn’t have much memory which is good.

Definitely not a ‘springy’ or awkward cable to use.


----------



## -rowan-

Any early adopters tried anything from the VE Omega series yet? And is the new 102 SSC upgrade cable any good?


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> Penon BS1 cable isn’t stiff to me anyway. About an average amount of flex, but it feels nice and doesn’t have much memory which is good.
> 
> Definitely not a ‘springy’ or awkward cable to use.



Definitely agree. I can see why someone would think it was stiff because it looks it, but in use, it actually just flows nicely.


----------



## j4100

-rowan- said:


> Any early adopters tried anything from the VE Omega series yet? And is the new 102 SSC upgrade cable any good?



ZOE is outstanding though the 102 SSC is very microphonic


----------



## euge

seanc6441 said:


> Penon BS1 cable isn’t stiff to me anyway. About an average amount of flex, but it feels nice and doesn’t have much memory which is good.
> 
> Definitely not a ‘springy’ or awkward cable to use.



Bk cable is worst with memory and getting tangled when kept. I love the tuning and sound of bs1 but always go back to the bk for better overall comfort, smaller shell and much lighter. It's a shame.


----------



## audio123

euge said:


> Bk cable is worst with memory and getting tangled when kept. I love the tuning and sound of bs1 but always go back to the bk for better overall comfort, smaller shell and much lighter. It's a shame.


Have you tried over the ear with the bs1?


----------



## euge

audio123 said:


> Have you tried over the ear with the bs1?



Yeah I did after Sean's suggestion, the cable is too thick to stay in place on my tiny ears


----------



## -rowan-

j4100 said:


> ZOE is outstanding though the 102 SSC is very microphonic



Have you tried AOE as well? Contemplating that one as I have a soft spot for the Asura.
Any impressions on how they differ from their basic versions? 

Is the 102 SSC a significant upgrade from say, the SPC cable? And are the microphonics bad enough to be a distraction if one mainly uses them sitting/lying down?


----------



## seanc6441

euge said:


> Bk cable is worst with memory and getting tangled when kept. I love the tuning and sound of bs1 but always go back to the bk for better overall comfort, smaller shell and much lighter. It's a shame.


BK cable has some memory yeah, but the WORST? No I’ve had much much worse cables. The BK cable is a thing of beauty to behold


----------



## j4100

-rowan- said:


> Have you tried AOE as well? Contemplating that one as I have a soft spot for the Asura.
> Any impressions on how they differ from their basic versions?
> 
> Is the 102 SSC a significant upgrade from say, the SPC cable? And are the microphonics bad enough to be a distraction if one mainly uses them sitting/lying down?



I haven't really spent much time with it and haven't listened to both cables. I just fitted the 102 SSC and burned it in (just finished). I didn't bother with MOE or AOE and haven't heard the Asura or orignal Zens. I wasn't going to bother getting a Zen as opinions vary, but Wild Lee made me an offer I couldn't refuse when I was buying the RA2.0bl. 

The microphonics aren't an issue when sitting/lying IMO. To be fair, I'm probably not going to use these when I'm mobile anyway. I'll keep them for home listening. I don't have any other cables, unless the Trinity Master cables have the same fitting (haven't checked).


----------



## WhiteNightCrow

102 SSC is an excellent cable, but the microphonic level is just way beyond this world.
And not to mention the memory effect which is very disturbing.
You might want to cover it with some cotton sleeve to reduce the microphonic level.


----------



## Saoshyant

What size pins does the 102 ssc use?


----------



## j4100

WhiteNightCrow said:


> 102 SSC is an excellent cable, but the microphonic level is just way beyond this world.
> And not to mention the memory effect which is very disturbing.
> You might want to cover it with some cotton sleeve to reduce the microphonic level.



Though I only tried it briefly, I think the standard cable was much the same. I was surprised the 102 SSC was like that. I don't have many earbuds with that problem. Might be a deal breaker for some.


----------



## j4100

Saoshyant said:


> What size pins does the 102 ssc use?



Pretty sure 0.78 was quoted in the VE FB group.


----------



## -rowan-

j4100 said:


> I haven't really spent much time with it and haven't listened to both cables. I just fitted the 102 SSC and burned it in (just finished). I didn't bother with MOE or AOE and haven't heard the Asura or orignal Zens. I wasn't going to bother getting a Zen as opinions vary, but Wild Lee made me an offer I couldn't refuse when I was buying the RA2.0bl.
> 
> The microphonics aren't an issue when sitting/lying IMO. To be fair, I'm probably not going to use these when I'm mobile anyway. I'll keep them for home listening. I don't have any other cables, unless the Trinity Master cables have the same fitting (haven't checked).



Did you get a free Zen Lite as well, with your RA2.0bl?
Asking only because it would be a useful point of reference to compare the ZOE with. I'm not planning to get a Zen either but have the Lite cos of the RA deal.
If I had the 102 SSC I probably wouldn't use it for anything other than home listening anyway, so that's fine. 



j4100 said:


> Though I only tried it briefly, I think the standard cable was much the same. I was surprised the 102 SSC was like that. I don't have many earbuds with that problem. Might be a deal breaker for some.



'Much the same' - in terms of microphonics?


----------



## Matarro

Hi all...

I'm new to this forum, I ended up here because I bought a Monk+ and then I found the budget earbud thread and then via some creepy mass psychosis I ended up buying a bunch of budget earbuds. Monk+, Qian39, **** PT15, Fengru DIY PK2, TY Hi-Z 314P. Vido will probably arrive next week. I think my next purchase will be Monk lite, PK2 Panda and Graphene but I think I'll take it easy until I've sourted out my source.

This leads us to my reason for finally making an account and posting. Like I said, I need a better source and I also just managed to break my phone (an old OP2) so there's that... I'm looking at either LG V30 or Xperia XZ1, naturally the V30 is leaps ahead as an audio source but I can probably get a pretty good deal on the XZ1. However, I'm planning on using it mostly with either a BTR1 or Earstudio and I have no idea if that makes any difference. I'm thinking that V30's main advantage is it's hardware DAC and since BTR1/Earstudio have good DACs it might even things out. Also, both phones seem to support APTX HD. Or am I misunderstanding things, will the V30 + BTR1/Earstudio still be way ahead of XZ1 + BTR1/Earstudio?

If the XZ1 + BTR1/Earstudio will be fairly equal to V30 + BTR1/Earstudio I think I can live with worse sound straight from the phone and save some cash since I like both phones otherwise. Any thoughts on this would be great because I'm kind of on the fence here! Also, in a bit of a rush so I'll probably buy one of them this week.

Btw, I know this is a bit off topic but I know you have discussed both phones and BTR1 earlier in the thread so I figured it would be OK. Just let me know if I should remove it.

I started reading this thread on page 1500 since I wanted to be up to date on what's going on but I've only reached page 1726 so far, trying to hold the questions until I've caught up...


----------



## seanc6441

Matarro said:


> Hi all...
> 
> I'm new to this forum, I ended up here because I bought a Monk+ and then I found the budget earbud thread and then via some creepy mass psychosis I ended up buying a bunch of budget earbuds. Monk+, Qian39, **** PT15, Fengru DIY PK2, TY Hi-Z 314P. Vido will probably arrive next week. I think my next purchase will be Monk lite, PK2 Panda and Graphene but I think I'll take it easy until I've sourted out my source.
> 
> ...


They both support apt x hd? They should should exactly the same using BT. Using analog out the LG v30 has the better dac/amp (I think) but that won’t concern you if you will use bluetooth.

Infact if you plan on only using bluetooth you should buy any phone that supports the best bluetooth codecs like apt x hd, so you are not actually limited to an ‘audiophile’ phone like the V30 or XZ1.


----------



## Matarro

seanc6441 said:


> They both support apt x hd? They should should exactly the same using BT. Using analog out the LG v30 has the better dac/amp (I think) but that won’t concern you if you will use bluetooth.
> 
> Infact if you plan on only using bluetooth you should buy any phone that supports the best bluetooth codecs like apt x hd, so you are not actually limited to an ‘audiophile’ phone like the V30 or XZ1.



That's what I was hoping to hear, excellent! Thanks for the reply!


----------



## seanc6441

Matarro said:


> That's what I was hoping to hear, excellent! Thanks for the reply!


Yep no need to spend $800 on a phone if you don’t wanna lol


----------



## Matarro

seanc6441 said:


> Yep no need to spend $800 on a phone if you don’t wanna lol



Yes, even though I tend to keep my phones for a while that's still a bit pricey I think. Feels like the phones have really rocketed in price the last few years lol.


----------



## waynes world (Feb 25, 2018)

Matarro said:


> Hi all...
> 
> I'm new to this forum, I ended up here because I bought a Monk+ and then I found the budget earbud thread and then via some creepy mass psychosis I ended up buying a bunch of budget earbuds. Monk+, Qian39, **** PT15, Fengru DIY PK2, TY Hi-Z 314P. Vido will probably arrive next week. I think my next purchase will be Monk lite, PK2 Panda and Graphene but I think I'll take it easy until I've sourted out my source.
> 
> ...





seanc6441 said:


> They both support apt x hd? They should should exactly the same using BT. Using analog out the LG v30 has the better dac/amp (I think) but that won’t concern you if you will use bluetooth.
> 
> Infact if you plan on only using bluetooth you should buy any phone that supports the best bluetooth codecs like apt x hd, so you are not actually limited to an ‘audiophile’ phone like the V30 or XZ1.



Sean is correct, except that the BTR1 does not support APTXHD, whereas the Earstudio ES100 does. If I were you, I'd get the ES100 any phone that supports APTXHD, and call it a day.

Fwiw, I had the BTR1, and it sounded great to me using APTX (and my S7 Edge). I lost the BTR1 though, and am now waiting for the ES100. My phone doesn't support APTXHD, but I am fairly confident that the ES100 using APTX will sound at least as good, if not better, than the BTR1 using APTX.

Fwiw, here's a comparison of the SQ of the ES100 using APTXHD versus the BTR1 using APTX:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/radsone-earstudio.867366/page-17#post-14066024


----------



## seanc6441

Matarro said:


> Yes, even though I tend to keep my phones for a while that's still a bit pricey I think. Feels like the phones have really rocketed in price the last few years lol.


Indeed. That’s why you can buy the best of the last gen to save some money maybe ^^

Anything with apt x HD will do for your needs!


----------



## Ceteru

BTW @seanc6441 my foams arrived on Friday, and you weren't kidding; these are probably the most transparent foams I've ever used. I was using some donuts on my Monks which are now serving as my travel buds (I ride my bike to work so I'd rather not risk the BS1s on the way, but on arrival, the BS1 takes over for office listening), and after replacing them with these foams, I literally couldn't detect a significant sonic difference. 

It sounded like I was still using donuts; that is, foam that allows good low end, but a cutout for the eardrum-facing holes in the bud that allow clarity and openness. 

I really appreciate the recommendation m8 

P.S. (and off-topic): Did you end up keeping the Cayin, or no? I've been lurking the N5ii thread as I've been considering buying one as well, and I couldn't help but see your initial impressions.


----------



## krunchcrispy

Anybody with an Opus#1? Want to share what's your favorite bud to pair with it?


----------



## seanc6441

Ceteru said:


> BTW @seanc6441 my foams arrived on Friday, and you weren't kidding; these are probably the most transparent foams I've ever used. I was using some donuts on my Monks which are now serving as my travel buds (I ride my bike to work so I'd rather not risk the BS1s on the way, but on arrival, the BS1 takes over for office listening), and after replacing them with these foams, I literally couldn't detect a significant sonic difference.
> 
> It sounded like I was still using donuts; that is, foam that allows good low end, but a cutout for the eardrum-facing holes in the bud that allow clarity and openness.
> 
> ...


I returned it. I preferred my iphone 6s... lol

Something was off about the tonality in low mids, lacking some emotion and lush vocals. More textures and a little dull imo.

I described it as grainy at the time, it’s more like textured without the lush fullness.

Sticking with my iphone until I find a DAP i love. I didn’t love the n5ii.


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> I returned it. I preferred my iphone 6s... lol
> 
> Something was off about the tonality in low mids, lacking some emotion and lush vocals. More textures and a little dull imo.
> 
> ...


Ah well, such is the life of the hobby for a lot of people lol.

I'm glad you were able to try it without too much loss though (sadly it's not that easy with the Hiby R6, not yet anyway).


----------



## San Man

Ceteru said:


> BTW @seanc6441 my foams arrived on Friday, and you weren't kidding; these are probably the most transparent foams I've ever used. I was using some donuts on my Monks which are now serving as my travel buds (I ride my bike to work so I'd rather not risk the BS1s on the way, but on arrival, the BS1 takes over for office listening), and after replacing them with these foams, I literally couldn't detect a significant sonic difference.
> 
> It sounded like I was still using donuts; that is, foam that allows good low end, but a cutout for the eardrum-facing holes in the bud that allow clarity and openness.
> 
> ...



Can you link those foams please


----------



## Ceteru

San Man said:


> Can you link those foams please


Sure thing man, here they are: http://s.aliexpress.com/veMv6jMb Depending on where you live, they may take quite a while to get to you, but so far they've been worth the wait for me. Plus you get so many foams for so little money.


----------



## San Man

Thank you!


----------



## j4100

-rowan- said:


> Did you get a free Zen Lite as well, with your RA2.0bl?
> Asking only because it would be a useful point of reference to compare the ZOE with. I'm not planning to get a Zen either but have the Lite cos of the RA deal.
> If I had the 102 SSC I probably wouldn't use it for anything other than home listening anyway, so that's fine.
> 
> ...



Much the same. Yes microphonics. I'll compare the two tonight.

Yes, I jumped on the deal and got the Zen lite with it, which is an unbeatable combo for the price. I previously didn't have any balanced gear, so though I would see what I was missing.


----------



## hellfire8888

j4100 said:


> Pretty sure 0.78 was quoted in the VE FB group.



is oriolus iem using 0.78 too?


----------



## j4100

Just to confirm, here is one of Lee's posts.



> Things u wanna know about the Omega Editions
> 1st yes, they are 0.78 pin~ same cable as our Monk IEs ~


----------



## theoutsider (Feb 26, 2018)

j4100 said:


> Much the same. Yes microphonics. I'll compare the two tonight.
> 
> Yes, I jumped on the deal and got the Zen lite with it, which is an unbeatable combo for the price. I previously didn't have any balanced gear, so though I would see what I was missing.


I had monk lite 120 for a few days. My brother came to visit and asked for a pair of earphones, knowing that i have many. He picked monk lite 120 after going through some of my earphones.

I thought of reordering monk lite 120 but i am also considering getting ra plus for zen lite. Maybe i should hold the horses and get a balanced source instead.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 26, 2018)

theoutsider said:


> I had monk lite 120 for a few days. My brother came to visit and asked for a pair of earphones, knowing that i have many. He picked monk lite 120 after going through some of my earphones.
> 
> I thought of reordering monk lite 120 but i am also considering getting ra plus for zen lite. Maybe i should hold the horses and get a balanced source instead.



Surprisingly there are still 10 available of the standard $6 edition of the 120 ohm Monk Lite.   Not sure how many he put up over the weekend but I know it was not done at the usual time so maybe people did not know?  When I ordered mine 5 weeks ago there were only 10 put up and it was the first batch after the ones that early adopters ordered.  They sold out in about an hour so I was very excited to get one.  I had to get up in what was the middle of the night for me to do it .  Yes 6am is the middle of the  night for me.  So, if I  had waited  5 weeks it would have been easier...

For $6 just grab another!

uh oh... just noticed you need to  have 500 points as well.  I do not know how one would get 500 points.  I don't have any.  Yesterday it did not require points.

editing again... just found in my account that I do have 339 points from my previous purchases.  The standard 120 ohm monk lite and the SPC version of the 40 ohm monk lite.   I have two monk plus that I bought from Amazon... guess I should have bought them from VE but I did not know anything about the VE at the time and I used Amazon Prime because I was eager to try them... my first ever bud.


----------



## theoutsider

mbwilson111 said:


> Surprisingly there are still 10 available of the standard $6 edition of the 120 ohm Monk Lite.   Not sure how many he put up over the weekend but I know it was not done at the usual time so maybe people did not know?  When I ordered mine 5 weeks ago there were only 10 put up and it was the first batch after the ones that early adopters ordered.  They sold out in about an hour so I was very excited to get one.  I had to get up in what was the middle of the night for me to do it .  Yes 6am is the middle of the  night for me.  So, if I  had waited  5 weeks it would have been easier...
> 
> For $6 just grab another!


Maybe those who want it already have it. I think they released 30 pairs for this batch. I don't feel like reordering probably because I don't have to fight for it 

It is a pleasant earbud to have. I made a short impression/ unboxing video of it.

ps: I used the OD dimensions provided by you.

I wonder how much better is zen lite compared to monk lite.


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> ... just found in my account that I do have 339 points from my previous purchases.  The standard 120 ohm monk lite and the SPC version of the 40 ohm monk lite.   I have two monk plus that I bought from Amazon... guess I should have bought them from VE...



Lol - I bought a load of stuff, but from their Ali page, so no points. Still, I did order a few different Monk lites. Very comfortable shell for me.


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> Lol - I bought a load of stuff, but from their Ali page, so no points. Still, I did order a few different Monk lites. Very comfortable shell for me.



This week I received another little earbud with a comfortable shell.  I have  not measured but it might be slightly smaller than the Monk Lite.  It uses the Edifier H180 (which I do not have) shell.  It is the Philips SHE3800.  I got it from a UK ebay vendor (Glasgow) for £5.  Same vendor has it on Amazon for a pound more.  I think  it has been around a while and maybe is discontinued.  I like it enough that last night I bought a backup pair.  I was listening with it and felt like I would be really sad if something happened to it.  Very pleasing sound signature...and, yes...before someone asks,  it  has bass.

Searching within this thread and the budget bud thread  brings up older impression... mostly positive.  I got my first bud last August so I am still looking at older posts.


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> This week I received another little earbud with a comfortable shell.  I have  not measured but it might be slightly smaller than the Monk Lite.  It uses the Edifier H180 (which I do not have) shell.  It is the Philips SHE3800.  I got it from a UK ebay vendor (Glasgow) for £5.  Same vendor has it on Amazon for a pound more.  I think  it has been around a while and maybe is discontinued.  I like it enough that last night I bought a backup pair.  I was listening with it and felt like I would be really sad if something happened to it.  Very pleasing sound signature...and, yes...before someone asks,  it  has bass.
> 
> Searching within this thread and the budget bud thread  brings up older impression... mostly positive.  I got my first bud last August so I am still looking at older posts.



I was trawling through this thread from around page 300 to when I subscribed (October last year). It took me some time! There were quite a few favourable impressions of this one.


----------



## ClieOS

mbwilson111 said:


> This week I received another little earbud with a comfortable shell.  I have  not measured but it might be slightly smaller than the Monk Lite.  It uses the Edifier H180 (which I do not have) shell.  It is the Philips SHE3800.  I got it from a UK ebay vendor (Glasgow) for £5.  Same vendor has it on Amazon for a pound more.  I think  it has been around a while and maybe is discontinued.  I like it enough that last night I bought a backup pair.  I was listening with it and felt like I would be really sad if something happened to it.  Very pleasing sound signature...and, yes...before someone asks,  it  has bass.
> 
> Searching within this thread and the budget bud thread  brings up older impression... mostly positive.  I got my first bud last August so I am still looking at older posts.



Philips never released SHE3800 as an earbud. The real SHE3800 is an IEM model. This particular earbud is actually a 100% Chinese knockoff. I am surprised someone outside of China (especially one in the Westen countries) will dare to openly sell it, as they could get sued by Philips (not that Philips will be bothered by cheap stuff like these anyway).


----------



## mbwilson111

ClieOS said:


> Philips never released SHE3800 as an earbud. The real SHE3800 is an IEM model. This particular earbud is actually a 100% Chinese knockoff. I am surprised someone outside of China (especially one in the Westen countries) will dare to openly sell it, as they could get sued by Philips (not that Philips will be bothered by cheap stuff like these anyway).



Yes, I figured from the chinese writing on the packaging that it was not really Philips.  But the iems are?  interesting.  So this is a sort of Edifier H180 mod?  Whatever, I like it.


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> Surprisingly there are still 10 available of the standard $6 edition of the 120 ohm Monk Lite.   Not sure how many he put up over the weekend but I know it was not done at the usual time so maybe people did not know?  When I ordered mine 5 weeks ago there were only 10 put up and it was the first batch after the ones that early adopters ordered.  They sold out in about an hour so I was very excited to get one.  I had to get up in what was the middle of the night for me to do it .  Yes 6am is the middle of the  night for me.  So, if I  had waited  5 weeks it would have been easier...
> 
> For $6 just grab another!
> 
> ...



If you email Lee the details of your Amazon purchases you can ask for points to be added. However when I ordered mine yesterday there was no points requirement.


----------



## mbwilson111

groucho69 said:


> If you email Lee the details of your Amazon purchases you can ask for points to be added. However when I ordered mine yesterday there was no points requirement.



Yes, I know the point requirement was added today.  You were lucky you ordered when you did.  I am not sure that VE was actually the Amazon vendor.


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> Yes, I know the point requirement was added today.  You were lucky you ordered when you did.  I am not sure that VE was actually the Amazon vendor.



Oh well yea for me . It shouldn't matter who the vendor was. Just send all of the information.


----------



## DancingShaman

I would like to get an earbud, but seeing the first page of this thread doesnt really help.  Is there any performance comparison thread or an article on the budget earbuds fellows?


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Sticking with my iphone until I find a DAP i love. I didn’t love the n5ii.



Sorry the n5ii didn't work out. But we know what you're holding out for


----------



## seanc6441

DancingShaman said:


> I would like to get an earbud, but seeing the first page of this thread doesnt really help.  Is there any performance comparison thread or an article on the budget earbuds fellows?


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...2RK-1_XnAo/pubhtml?gid=1362510242&single=true

Tier 5 is budget earbuds (under $25 I think). Then search them in google or headfi for reviews.

If you go for the EMX500 maybe get the latest ‘S’ variant.


----------



## wskl

j4100 said:


> Lol - I bought a load of stuff, but from their Ali page, so no points. Still, I did order a few different Monk lites. Very comfortable shell for me.



If you register an account on veclan.com, there is an option called "Aliexpress Order Connection", you can then link your Aliexpress orders to veclan.com and get your points carried over.


----------



## Saoshyant

Didn't remember anything about a point system for VE, have 2400 or so.


----------



## j4100

-rowan- said:


> 'Much the same' - in terms of microphonics?



Now I have checked, the standard cable has less microphonics than the 102 SSC.


----------



## -rowan-

j4100 said:


> Now I have checked, the standard cable has less microphonics than the 102 SSC.



Thanks! Is the standard cable in this instance the red one? Look forward to your ZOE vs Zen Lite comparisons.

On my part, I haven't been listening to the Lites as much as I would've liked as the shells are just too small for my ears & fall out at the slightest movement :/ 

The Monk Lites are all right in their thin foams but the Zen Lite doesn't take kindly to being dressed, imo anyway.


----------



## Matarro

seanc6441 said:


> Indeed. That’s why you can buy the best of the last gen to save some money maybe ^^
> 
> Anything with apt x HD will do for your needs!





waynes world said:


> Sean is correct, except that the BTR1 does not support APTXHD, whereas the Earstudio ES100 does. If I were you, I'd get the ES100 any phone that supports APTXHD, and call it a day.
> 
> Fwiw, I had the BTR1, and it sounded great to me using APTX (and my S7 Edge). I lost the BTR1 though, and am now waiting for the ES100. My phone doesn't support APTXHD, but I am fairly confident that the ES100 using APTX will sound at least as good, if not better, than the BTR1 using APTX.
> 
> ...



Thanks again for the help! I ended up ordering a Mate 10 pro today. I might return it though since I realized that it doesn't have Bluetooth 5. Earstudio only supports BT 4.2 though so it's cool on that front but it still worries me. Another annoyance will be the lack of a 3.5 jack so Earstudio really better work out for me. I still kind of really like the phone though so hopefully I can make peace with it.

Oh yeah, earbuds! Can someone explain what VE points is? I need that to buy the 120ohm version of monk lite?


----------



## waynes world

Matarro said:


> Thanks again for the help! I ended up ordering a Mate 10 pro today. I might return it though since I realized that it doesn't have Bluetooth 5. Earstudio only supports BT 4.2 though so it's cool on that front but it still worries me.



Fwiw, bluetooth 5.0 does not provide better audio:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/radsone-earstudio.867366/page-10#post-14021985
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/radsone-earstudio.867366/page-10#post-14023123

As subtec put it well in that thread:


> To summarize, all the improvements to range and data rate in Bluetooth 5 apply to Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE) mode _only, _but even at double the data rate it's _still_ too slow for streaming high quality audio. BLE is really meant for Internet of Things (IoT) devices - various kinds of sensors, locators, and stuff like mice and keyboards, none of which need much data throughput. For stereo audio you need to use classic Bluetooth, which as far as range and data rate go, hasn't changed for BT5.


----------



## Matarro

Matarro said:


> Oh yeah, earbuds! Can someone explain what VE points is? I need that to buy the 120ohm version of monk lite?



Ignore this, I figured it out.


----------



## Matarro

waynes world said:


> Fwiw, bluetooth 5.0 does not provide better audio:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/radsone-earstudio.867366/page-10#post-14021985
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/radsone-earstudio.867366/page-10#post-14023123
> 
> As subtec put it well in that thread:



That's good info, very interesting actually!


----------



## Mezzi (Feb 26, 2018)

The Philips SHE3800 is a fantastic earbud. It blew a lot of the other earbuds out of the water including the Monks. The bass is solid with a hint of sub, good soundstage and details are bright. From all the damn earbuds I bought they are in my top 3. These scale awesome on a headphone amp. Although I did order the penon BS1 Official so they may drop down to the #4 spot.






Still, absolutely wonderful. I ordered from lunashops.com and took fooooorreeever to get here, but it seems the website is no longer.
If you can find a pair online, I fully recommend them.

note: You'll want to put donut foams on these for a real kick in the a** (mean that in a good way)


----------



## Ceteru

Whew lad, it's kicking off on r/headphones.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 26, 2018)

Mezzi said:


> The Philips SHE3800 is a fantastic earbud. It blew a lot of the other earbuds out of the water including the Monks. The bass is solid with a hint of sub, good soundstage and details are bright. From all the damn earbuds I bought they are in my top 3. These scale awesome on a headphone amp. Although I did order the penon BS1 Official so they may drop down to the #4 spot.
> 
> Still, absolutely wonderful. I ordered from lunashops.com and took fooooorreeever to get here, but it seems the website is no longer.
> If you can find a pair online, I fully recommend them.
> ...



I hear them the way you just described.  Like I said earlier, I just had to order a backup pair just in case...only £5 (shipping included) which is about $7 at the moment.  I was lucky to find that UK ebay vendor... only took two days for mine to arrive.  I wonder where someone who is not in the UK would be able to get them.


----------



## seanc6441

Ceteru said:


> Whew lad, it's kicking off on r/headphones.


Are you talking about the Wild Lee (Venture Electronics dude) fiasco? lol


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> Are you talking about the Wild Lee (Venture Electronics dude) fiasco? lol


Lol yup.. I tell you, you never know at the start of the day what will have blown up by the end..


----------



## Mezzi (Feb 26, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Are you talking about the Wild Lee (Venture Electronics dude) fiasco? lol



Wait....what fiasco?

Nevermind, found it. Just in case anybody else is wondering
https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones..._venture_electronics_threatens_any/?limit=500


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 26, 2018)

Mezzi said:


> till, absolutely wonderful. I ordered from lunashops.com and took fooooorreeever to get here, but it seems the website is no longer.
> If you can find a pair online, I fully recommend them.





mbwilson111 said:


> I wonder where someone who is not in the UK would be able to get them.



I think I found them... lunashop still exists and says they are in stock


http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=1116

also a mic version

http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=4057


----------



## Saoshyant

Lee's always done right by me.  Reading reddit posts usually reminds me why I dislike people.


----------



## mbwilson111

Saoshyant said:


> Lee's always done right by me.  Reading reddit posts usually reminds me why I dislike people.



Yeah, I always say "dogs are better than people."


----------



## Saoshyant

I mean, maybe if people were more productive in that discussion and actually made alternative recommendations instead of just complaining about a person, I'd be a little more accepting.  One of the few recommendations I read said to buy Rose Tech over VE, where if you actually read the Rose thread, people with QC issues are quite vocal.  Luckily Mojito and Masya don't seem to have QC issues often, their IEMs seem to be a bit worse off.  Then again, there is the vocal minority aspect as people are far more likely to speak up if there's an issue than if they're happy.  So perhaps even those QC issues are a little blown out of proportion.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 26, 2018)

Many r/headphones comments can be very self righteous and everyone loves to tell you what’s good and bad over there. I like the posts and pics but the actual discussion is pretty bleak at times, except on rare occasions where you find good conversation about the thing we all love.

As for Lee well he pretty much dug a hole for himself with his comments and was banning certain reviews which didn’t give 5 stars (his defence is that these people shouldn’t keep buying his product if they don’t like it) while I get why he’d be mad at poor reviews without working it out with the seller, his attitude wasn’t very customer friendly. Later he removed some comments he made on FB.

But on the other hand it’s up to people to decide how they want to spend their money, not anyone’s position to instruct us not to buy from VE clan.


----------



## jrazmar

Has anyone heard the Shozy BK Limited Edition? After all the searching and reading reviews about earbuds, my interest is now back to the BK. I just wanted to hear an improved version of the Cygnus specially the mids which the BK as many have said is an upgrade in both sound and quality. Time to start saving again.....


----------



## j4100

Went to bed and drifted off with Talvihorros (ambient drone) in my ears. Lovely and relaxing. Awoke with a start at 01:30 to something really noisy. 

Seahf AWK-F150C doing the job again.


----------



## j4100 (Feb 27, 2018)

I noticed that the CK Lewis Ali store has a lots of stuff on sale, should anyone be interested. Did anyone here ever buy the wooden buds?

Damn. Can't get the link to work. It is the Fengru ones


----------



## jogawag

j4100 said:


> I noticed that the CK Lewis Ali store has a lots of stuff on sale, should anyone be interested. Did anyone here ever buy the wooden buds?
> 
> Damn. Can't get the link to work. It is the Fengru ones



Is this link OK?
https://aliexpress.com/item/fengru-1-2-diy/32840154190.html


----------



## j4100

jogawag said:


> Is this link OK?
> https://aliexpress.com/item/fengru-1-2-diy/32840154190.html



That's the ones. I cannot recall many impressions of these.


----------



## DancingShaman

This thread already costed me close to 100 bucks in the last couple of days. God help me!


----------



## mbwilson111

DancingShaman said:


> This thread already costed me close to 100 bucks in the last couple of days. God help me!



could have been worse...


----------



## j4100

DancingShaman said:


> This thread already costed me close to 100 bucks in the last couple of days. God help me!



You are doomed if you stay in this thread.



mbwilson111 said:


> could have been worse...



Much worse


----------



## groucho69

DancingShaman said:


> This thread already costed me close to 100 bucks in the last couple of days. God help me!



Your so called god cannot help you now. You are doomed to the hell pit of empty wallets and draw fulls of ear and headphones. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


----------



## mbwilson111

groucho69 said:


> You are doomed to the hell pit of empty wallets and draw fulls of ear and headphones



Sometimes there are not enough drawers or shelves and they end up on the dining table and chairs... and behind living room chairs.... or just cases piled in a corner.... or under my husbands computer desk... lol.  Not sure what he has under there... I think that is where they breed.


----------



## audio123

Analytical & Smooth. I really enjoy the technical aspect of the TO200.

https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/01/28/toneking-to200/


----------



## miroslav

_Welcome to Head-Fi, sorry about your wallet 100 bucks or much worse._


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> Sometimes there are not enough drawers or shelves and they end up on the dining table and chairs... and behind living room chairs.... or just cases piled in a corner.... or under my husbands computer desk... lol.  Not sure what he has under there... I think that is where they breed.


----------



## j4100 (Feb 27, 2018)

-rowan- said:


> Thanks! Is the standard cable in this instance the red one? Look forward to your ZOE vs Zen Lite comparisons.
> 
> On my part, I haven't been listening to the Lites as much as I would've liked as the shells are just too small for my ears & fall out at the slightest movement :/
> 
> The Monk Lites are all right in their thin foams but the Zen Lite doesn't take kindly to being dressed, imo anyway.



Rough impressions are that the ZOE with standard red cable has more bass and "air" than the lite, probably a bit more clarity and detail as well. The white 102SSC cable adds a little "more". I find it hard to quantify this kind of thing, but it was an improvement over the red cable, though probably not night and day differences. Though I think the Zen lite is a good earbud and I like it, going back to that immediately after the ZOE is difficult. Note, I tried these both without foams, so YMMV.

Edit to add. As mentioned previously, the red cable is a little microphonic, but not too bad. The 102 SSC above the split is very microphonic.


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> Sometimes there are not enough drawers or shelves and they end up on the dining table and chairs... and behind living room chairs.... or just cases piled in a corner.... or under my husbands computer desk... lol.  Not sure what he has under there... I think that is where they breed.



I think you both need to build that Kardashian style waking closet.. for audio gears


----------



## Raketen (Feb 27, 2018)

groucho69 said:


>



500 iPods later...





http://www.kendrahaste.co.uk/


----------



## groucho69

Raketen said:


> 500 iPods later...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The scat makes it better


----------



## kw8910

groucho69 said:


>



Underrated and useful aspect of my kinera buds, those little velcro thingies that attaches to the cable itself so it doesn't get lost.  Anyone know where I can get more? What are they called?


----------



## groucho69

kw8910 said:


> Underrated and useful aspect of my kinera buds, those little velcro thingies that attaches to the cable itself so it doesn't get lost.  Anyone know where I can get more? What are they called?



Well I always called them...vecro thingies. They come with many purchases but I have never looked for them separately. I use twist ties when necessary.


----------



## groucho69

This could workhttps://www.amazon.com/VELCRO-Brand...rd_wg=iJ5oU&psc=1&refRID=MHVK1HT1AGARVKB0SWT6


----------



## mbwilson111

groucho69 said:


> Well I always called them...vecro thingies. They come with many purchases but I have never looked for them separately. I use twist ties when necessary.



That reminds me...I need more of this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004AF25RM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I cut pieces to the size I need.


----------



## groucho69

And this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/50P...&terminal_id=8af282ebaf3b41aeb2cef68785e87ddf


----------



## mbwilson111

We also have some of these:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Reusable-F...19775567&sr=8-4&keywords=cable+straps+leather


----------



## kw8910

Thanks for the suggestions so far! Here's a closer shot of what I'm talking about with the velcro attached to the cable so it doesn't get lost:


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> We also have some of these:
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Reusable-F...19775567&sr=8-4&keywords=cable+straps+leather


Too rich for my blood...really...gout.


----------



## mbwilson111

kw8910 said:


> Thanks for the suggestions so far! Here's a closer shot of what I'm talking about with the velcro attached to the cable so it doesn't get lost:



I find it awkward to wrap it when it is attached so I remove it.  Plus I don't like it being on the cable while I am using it...but that's just me...


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> I find it awkward to wrap it when it is attached so I remove it.  Plus I don't like it being on the cable while I am using it...but that's just me...



+1


----------



## HungryPanda

groucho69 said:


> Your so called god cannot help you now. You are doomed to the hell pit of empty wallets and draw fulls of ear and headphones. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> I think you both need to build that Kardashian style waking closet.. for audio gears



I googled that as I know nothing about the Kardashians...that would be bigger than our house!  Would be amazing though.


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


>



Tip of the iceberg...


----------



## HungryPanda

mbwilson111 said:


> Tip of the iceberg...


 You know me too well


----------



## kw8910

mbwilson111 said:


> I find it awkward to wrap it when it is attached so I remove it.  Plus I don't like it being on the cable while I am using it...but that's just me...



I like using them for earbuds or IEMs on-the-go or travel (kinera, monk lite,  KZ's, etc.). I also like the leather straps for the ones I don't take out of the house as much. Some like the IT01 don't require any straps with its awesome cable and case...it doesn't tend to get tangled up


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> You know me too well



Sure do


----------



## Saoshyant

Off topic, but @HungryPanda have you heard the KEF M500?  As a primarily earbud listener I've been curious if it'd have a similar tuning, plus the recent sale seemed solid


----------



## HungryPanda

Saoshyant said:


> Off topic, but @HungryPanda have you heard the KEF M500?  As a primarily earbud listener I've been curious if it'd have a similar tuning, plus the recent sale seemed solid


 No I have never had the pleasure of hearing a Keff headphone


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> No I have never had the pleasure of hearing a Keff headphone



Well then, I will have to lend you mine!


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> I googled that as I know nothing about the Kardashians...that would be bigger than our house!  Would be amazing though.



If you know nothing then you know all you need to know.


----------



## -rowan-

j4100 said:


> Rough impressions are that the ZOE with standard red cable has more bass and "air" than the lite, probably a bit more clarity and detail as well. The white 102SSC cable adds a little "more". I find it hard to quantify this kind of thing, but it was an improvement over the red cable, though probably not night and day differences. Though I think the Zen lite is a good earbud and I like it, going back to that immediately after the ZOE is difficult. Note, I tried these both without foams, so YMMV.
> 
> Edit to add. As mentioned previously, the red cable is a little microphonic, but not too bad. The 102 SSC above the split is very microphonic.



Thanks! I'm having a hard time sitting on my hands while watching all the stuff go up on the VE website so I'm latching on to the 'not night and day differences' bit.
I don't reckon the Zen sig will ever be for me but... at least the Asuras are cheaper, I guess.



Ceteru said:


> Sure thing man, here they are: http://s.aliexpress.com/veMv6jMb Depending on where you live, they may take quite a while to get to you, but so far they've been worth the wait for me. Plus you get so many foams for so little money.



Is this the link for @seanc6441's super-thin foams? Also, this may sound silly but are they available in a second colour as well? So as to be able to tell left from right at a glance...


----------



## Ceteru

-rowan- said:


> Is this the link for @seanc6441's super-thin foams? Also, this may sound silly but are they available in a second colour as well? So as to be able to tell left from right at a glance...


Yep, that's them.

However, as far as I know, the only varying color set they have in that store is here. I can't vouch for the thickness of those, but looking at them real close on my computer screen, they appear to be the same or similar.

I could be wrong though, so I can't advise either way..


----------



## B9Scrambler

My thoughts on the BS1 Official. For 99 bucks, they're kind of a no-brainer.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/penon-bs1-official-version.22858/reviews#review-19964


  ​


----------



## waynes world

B9Scrambler said:


> My thoughts on the BS1 Official. For 99 bucks, they're kind of a no-brainer.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/penon-bs1-official-version.22858/reviews#review-19964
> 
> ​



Nice review! I'd better get working


----------



## B9Scrambler (Feb 28, 2018)

waynes world said:


> Nice review! I'd better get working



LMAO! That's amazing. Mind if I add that image to the end of my review?

Edit: Too late, already added  Too funny to not include.


----------



## waynes world

B9Scrambler said:


> LMAO! That's amazing. Mind if I add that image to the end of my review?



No, I don't mind. But I kinda "borrowed" it, which maybe was not kosher


----------



## B9Scrambler

waynes world said:


> No, I don't mind. But I kinda "borrowed" it, which maybe was not kosher



Well, whatever. It's in there now. If anyone has an issue with it they can report it to the mods, lol.


----------



## wskl

kw8910 said:


> Thanks for the suggestions so far! Here's a closer shot of what I'm talking about with the velcro attached to the cable so it doesn't get lost:



I think this is what you are looking for but currently out of stock.
https://www.banggood.com/Bakeey-Nyl...d-Line-Reusable-Wire-Organizer-p-1160340.html


----------



## kw8910

wskl said:


> I think this is what you are looking for but currently out of stock.
> https://www.banggood.com/Bakeey-Nyl...d-Line-Reusable-Wire-Organizer-p-1160340.html


That’s exactly it, I’ll ask them if it can be brought back in stock.


----------



## DancingShaman

mbwilson111 said:


> could have been worse...



I like how you see the full side of the glass mate!



j4100 said:


> You are doomed if you stay in this thread.
> 
> Much worse



So they say, yet it is the most fun thread I came across so far, so can't bloody leave! 



groucho69 said:


> Your so called god cannot help you now. You are doomed to the hell pit of empty wallets and draw fulls of ear and headphones. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!



I almost heard that laughter right behind my ears in the room. 



mbwilson111 said:


> Sometimes there are not enough drawers or shelves and they end up on the dining table and chairs... and behind living room chairs.... or just cases piled in a corner.... or under my husbands computer desk... lol.  Not sure what he has under there... I think that is where they breed.



Oh my, I can't afford to have that, I have OCD when it comes to tidying. 



miroslav said:


> _Welcome to Head-Fi, sorry about your wallet 100 bucks or much worse._



I have been a long term member, just not a very frequent writer. So, that number is more like 1000's now!


----------



## noknok23

I'm on the edge of buying the HiFi Boy Dream... haaa it's so hard to resist!! Any owner could give more feedback? Please convince me it's not worth it.


----------



## groucho69

noknok23 said:


> I'm on the edge of buying the HiFi Boy Dream... haaa it's so hard to resist!! Any owner could give more feedback? Please convince me it's not worth it.



It looks so good doesn't it?


----------



## cathee

very excited about these three little boxes I just got in the mail

just getting started with the emx500 - shockingly good already (been AirPoding a lot lately for the sheer ridiculous convenience)


----------



## San Man

cathee said:


> very excited about these three little boxes I just got in the mail
> 
> just getting started with the emx500 - shockingly good already (been AirPoding a lot lately for the sheer ridiculous convenience)



I got the emxs500, ry4s, nicehck mx760, gm500, monk ie and Zoe on the way, I can't wait!


----------



## waynes world

San Man said:


> I got the emxs500, ry4s, nicehck mx760, gm500, monk ie and Zoe on the way, I can't wait!



Which mx760's? The $16 ones? Or the supremo $29 ones?


----------



## San Man

waynes world said:


> Which mx760's? The $16 ones? Or the supremo $29 ones?



The NICEHCK ones were 29 and change on Ali, they were the ones recommended somewhere in this thread or the other ear bud thread


----------



## waynes world

San Man said:


> The NICEHCK ones were 29 and change on Ali, they were the ones recommended somewhere in this thread or the other ear bud thread



As someone from waynes world would say..


Spoiler


----------



## San Man

They've landed and are waiting to clear customs....woo!


----------



## cathee

Listening to Tidal MQA version of Lorde's debut album, which is serendipitously named _Pure Heroine_.  

Still on the EMX500 







*Any DAP users out there having good experiences with Tidal? What are you using?
*
Tried the Fiio X5iii... Didn't love it, looking for alternatives. TIA


----------



## Raketen (Mar 2, 2018)

cathee said:


> Listening to Tidal MQA version of Lorde's debut album, which is serendipitously named _Pure Heroine_.
> 
> *Any DAP users out there having good experiences with Tidal? What are you using?
> *
> Tried the Fiio X5iii... Didn't love it, looking for alternatives. TIA



Interested too- streaming DAP + phone hotspot seems like it would be a big improvement  after some frustrating streaming + Bluetooth experiences. I prefer smaller non-Android DAPs, so  Hiby R3 is looking promising, supposedly will have Tidal.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 2, 2018)

cathee said:


> Listening to Tidal MQA version of Lorde's debut album, which is serendipitously named _Pure Heroine_.
> 
> Still on the EMX500
> 
> ...



Check out the Hiby R6. They are using some technology to bypass android limitations and give you pure sound from streaming apps into the dac/amp for better sound quality.

It’s brand new and crowd funded. Only issue is the crazy high output impendance of 10ohm. But if you buy something like an ifi iematch and connect it to the dap and earbuds to it the output  impendance will drop to 1.2-2.5 ohms I think. More manageable to stop the source effecting the frequency response of the earbud.

The sound is supposed to be extremely smooth and full with a slight darkness overall. Definitely not a treble heavy source but apparently it sounds exceptional and the price right now on indigogo is like 450$ for the aluminium version, that’s good value for what you get which is essentially a high end dap in features and probably SQ.

(btw I use the ‘Royals’ track to test bass on my earbuds xD )


----------



## seanc6441

cathee said:


> Listening to Tidal MQA version of Lorde's debut album, which is serendipitously named _Pure Heroine_.
> 
> Still on the EMX500
> 
> ...


Also when you get the chance, compare the emx500 and emxs500 if you could


----------



## letlive (Mar 2, 2018)

Got the EMXs500 a few days ago. Compared to the EMX500 they have much more bass and body! The highs are smoother and there is less clarity. It comes close to the sound of a full size headphone. I definitely prefer them for outdoor use. Overall I would say that the standard EMX500 is the better Earbud because of the more balanced sound.


----------



## MarkCavendish

i love diy mx760 sounding ,any upgrade earbud from diy mx760? which is improve in clarity,separation, and airy sounding. my budget around 50$ and i dont want high impedance earbud. my candidate r toneking unicorn,toneking to65,moondrop vx pro which one are close sounding like diy mx760 but improve in clarity,separation and airy sounding?


----------



## groucho69

cathee said:


> Listening to Tidal MQA version of Lorde's debut album, which is serendipitously named _Pure Heroine_.
> 
> Still on the EMX500
> 
> ...


----------



## SuperMAG

Can someone please compare the emx500 orignal one with the penon bs1. how much big is an upgrade and sounstage.


----------



## seanc6441

SuperMAG said:


> Can someone please compare the emx500 orignal one with the penon bs1. how much big is an upgrade and sounstage.


Different sound sig. Emx500 is U shaped, bs1 is more balanced. It’s a considerable upgrade but not a direct upgrade. I think someone suggested the K’s samara as an emx500 upgrade, or I suggested the Rose Masya which is more extended and ‘light in the mids’ kind of like emx500 but not U shaped overall.


----------



## waynes world

MarkCavendish said:


> i love diy mx760 sounding ,any upgrade earbud from diy mx760? which is improve in clarity,separation, and airy sounding. my budget around 50$ and i dont want high impedance earbud. my candidate r toneking unicorn,toneking to65,moondrop vx pro which one are close sounding like diy mx760 but improve in clarity,separation and airy sounding?



I'm not sure which graphenes you have, but if you have the $16 version, then the $29 version should take care of your needs


----------



## audio123

Astrotec Lyra Collection Review 

https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2017/12/29/astrotec-lyra-collection/


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> I'm not sure which graphenes you have, but if you have the $16 version, then the $29 version should take care of your needs



Do you regret having both?


----------



## waynes world (Mar 2, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Do you regret having both?



No, I really like the $16 graphenes and use them often. But the $29 graphenes (which probably can be had for less if one asks nicely) are different - I find they have more "clarity, separation" and are more "airy sounding" (things that Mark is looking for), and I find them to have more sub-bass and better bass definition as well. If I don't listen to them for a while, I start experiencing withdrawal symptoms lol. But as they say in this game... YMMV!


----------



## MarkCavendish

waynes world said:


> I'm not sure which graphenes you have, but if you have the $16 version, then the $29 version should take care of your needs


i got 29$ ver with transparent housing https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...High-End-Rare-Earth-Graphene/32821104494.html , idk diy mx760 have difference version , but im really love the sounding of this bud ,im thinking about to buy another one or get an upgrade but still closer to this sounding, because my mx760 cable already oxidation and the cable bit sticky


----------



## waynes world

MarkCavendish said:


> i got 29$ ver with transparent housing https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...High-End-Rare-Earth-Graphene/32821104494.html , idk diy mx760 have difference version , but im really love the sounding of this bud ,im thinking about to buy another one or get an upgrade but still closer to this sounding, because my mx760 cable already oxidation and the cable bit sticky



Ok, the $29 graphenes won't be an upgrade to your $29 graphenes then lol. Maybe just up your budget to $100 and get the BS1 Officials, and then come back and report how much you love them, and make me even more green with envy!


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 2, 2018)

MarkCavendish said:


> i got 29$ ver with transparent housing https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...High-End-Rare-Earth-Graphene/32821104494.html , idk diy mx760 have difference version , but im really love the sounding of this bud ,im thinking about to buy another one or get an upgrade but still closer to this sounding, because my mx760 cable already oxidation and the cable bit sticky





MarkCavendish said:


> i got 29$ ver with transparent housing https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...High-End-Rare-Earth-Graphene/32821104494.html , idk diy mx760 have difference version , but im really love the sounding of this bud ,im thinking about to buy another one or get an upgrade but still closer to this sounding, because my mx760 cable already oxidation and the cable bit sticky


BS1 need a perfect fit to sound right imo. Like if you don’t get it in the right position or right amount of seal it sounds like a funnel effect or a little hollow even.

But if the fit is right... woah. Exceptionally good for the price.

Many people say pair it with a bright source but I prefer it with a warm and slightly darker source myself as the bud is raised in the upper mids so the tonality sounds right on a more low mid emphasised source so long as the treble is still extended and clean it will sound great.

As for the fit well firstly I think the soundstage, space/air in separation and the vocals sound much better if worn over ear. The presentation is slightly more forward and light but with powerful bass.

I had to add a rubber ring around the shell to add seal for bass impact, and leave the back vents open to make it more airy and allow deeper bass rather than only punchy mid bass. I switched many times between low density full foams and the super thin foams and honestly it’s personal preference here and depends on how much treble you want and how smooth you want the upper mids to sound (I opted for smoother with full foams in the end to calm down the slightly peaked upper mids).

Someone mentioned a few pages back about some foam tape for cameras? that looks perfect to add to the shell to increase its diameter and would be soft on the ears, I may try that.

I’m currently running these buds out of my lg v20, it’s a little bright in the upper mids and it’s dead neutral tonally (the bud not the phone),w hich is ok just that I prefer a slight warmth. MX760 is dead neutral too to my ears tonally so the BS1 will sound similar in that regard. 

Other than that slight ‘flaw’, the soundstage and energy coming out of these buds is close to on ear headphones! They do sound really good on my v20 overall though, as they would on most sources with a little adjustment.


----------



## HungryPanda

Willsound MK2, Fiio X5III and Tracy Thorns new album are keeping me happy right now


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## Ceteru

cathee said:


> Listening to Tidal MQA version of Lorde's debut album, which is serendipitously named _Pure Heroine_.
> 
> Still on the EMX500
> 
> ...





seanc6441 said:


> (btw I use the ‘Royals’ track to test bass on my earbuds xD )



"Pure Heroine" was the first album I listened to with my BS1s too  I find it interesting how many people use that album to test headphones..


----------



## seanc6441

Ceteru said:


> "Pure Heroine" was the first album I listened to with my BS1s too  I find it interesting how many people use that album to test headphones..


heard it on a ‘HD540’ thread suggested haha

Much be the headphone bunch ey


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> heard it on a ‘HD540’ thread suggested haha
> 
> Much be the headphone bunch ey


Right you are, boyo 

I definitely love that album as a way to test headphones. There's so much variety in it; spacial effects, background, panning, and side-panned vocals, etc.


----------



## cathee (Mar 2, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Check out the Hiby R6. They are using some technology to bypass android limitations and give you pure sound from streaming apps into the dac/amp for better sound quality. ...





groucho69 said:


>




Yes, I've been following the threads on these two Hiby projects closely. Not a fan of IndieGoGo, so I've been waiting to pull the trigger. My only concern is I prefer a little "sparkle" up top and most of these DAPs (like the X5iii in my experience) when described as "warmer" is usually not to my liking. That said, the stainless steel R6 looks amazing and seems to check the most boxes for me.
*
Any one here have experience with the Hiby R6 yet? Especially with earbuds? *



seanc6441 said:


> Also when you get the chance, compare the emx500 and emxs500 if you could



Will do. Haven't had enough time to describe the specifics yet but even from a quick listen Ive noticed that from a quality source the EMXs500 (or is it EMX500s?) is noticeably better. On the Apple dongle through my iPhone? No real difference.

EDIT: Spelling and grammar.


----------



## seanc6441

Ceteru said:


> Right you are, boyo
> 
> I definitely love that album as a way to test headphones. There's so much variety in it; spacial effects, background, panning, and side-panned vocals, etc.


I use westworld/game of thrones OST, radiohead, grizzly bear and half moon run to test my stuff because it’s music I know well.

Some Floyd too.


----------



## seanc6441

oh and I cannot forgot Fleetwood Mac and Michael Kiwanuka. Lots of great music too little time lol


----------



## HungryPanda

Ellen Allien is my good test


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 2, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> Ellen Allien is my good test



I’ll listen now 

Take out! Take out! Lol

Yeah EDM is good for testing, even slower edm.

You should check out London Grammar btw.


----------



## Raketen (Mar 3, 2018)

I think I like Perfume Genius 'No Shape' album from last year as a stress test. IDK if it  is 'audiophile friendly', but it's fairly genre diverse pop  & pretty rough going on some headphones. Also I haven't gotten sick of listening to it yet, which helps


----------



## WC Annihilus

RIP my MX880's are now completely dead   Had to go digging around for the stock earbuds that came with my J3 so that I wasn't completely deprived of music on the go.  I've been holding off on ordering the BS1's until my new credit card comes in, but I'm not sure how much longer I can wait


----------



## miroslav

waynes world said:


> I'm not sure which graphenes you have, but if you have the $16 version, then the $29 version should take care of your needs



This is interesting. I'm enjoying my New Graphene a lot lately. It took some time, like over a month, for the sound to open and clear up and I also had a terrible flu mid-January. When I got better, the buds started to sound great. They are a noticeable step up in refinement compared to Vido, the only other cheap buds I have.

When I think of upgrading the New Graphene without breaking the bank, something like Moondrop Nameless comes to mind according to descriptions. But could it be that the Old Graphene are really 2x the sound quality of the New Graphene as the price difference suggests? Is there a verdict on this?


----------



## vladstef (Mar 3, 2018)

Memt is releasing a new bud, T5. Looks like an earpod that decided to become a tank. Will cost around 35$.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 3, 2018)

miroslav said:


> This is interesting. I'm enjoying my New Graphene a lot lately. It took some time, like over a month, for the sound to open and clear up and I also had a terrible flu mid-January. When I got better, the buds started to sound great. They are a noticeable step up in refinement compared to Vido, the only other cheap buds I have.
> 
> When I think of upgrading the New Graphene without breaking the bank, something like Moondrop Nameless comes to mind according to descriptions. But could it be that the Old Graphene are really 2x the sound quality of the New Graphene as the price difference suggests? Is there a verdict on this?


There’s many varying opinions of how good each version of the graphene’s are and from what seller, I have a feeling they may vary somewhat between sellers and even the consistency may be different. My old graphene’s were mid bassy, others say they are light on bass. Mine have a treble boost but others experience a balanced treble.

Whether it’s just our ears or the buds being so different who knows. Might be a good bet to purchase a different earbud assuming you already have one version of the graphene’s.

But if you really love the graphene driver then maybe you’ll enjoy all the versions


----------



## seanc6441

vladstef said:


> Memt is releasing a new bud, T5. Looks like an earpod that decided to become a tank. Will cost around 35$.


The earpod design isn’t half bad, although I can imagine it takes a lot of tuning to make it sound right with the shell design.

I’d love to hear a capable driver inside a better contructed and updated earpod, with a more comfortable shell.


----------



## Marshal165456

Boss SoundSport comes with an inline mic from which you can adjust the volume, skip songs, and accept and make call


----------



## chinmie

vladstef said:


> Memt is releasing a new bud, T5. Looks like an earpod that decided to become a tank. Will cost around 35$.



"An earpod that decided to become a tank" ...that sentence alone makes me want to buy them


----------



## seanc6441

Marshal165456 said:


> Boss SoundSport comes with an inline mic from which you can adjust the volume, skip songs, and accept and make call


All it lacks is sound quality 

JK It may sound alright I haven’t heard it^^


----------



## krunchcrispy

Hey, can anyone give a comparison between the $29 Graphene and the Yincrow X6?


----------



## MarkCavendish

waynes world said:


> Ok, the $29 graphenes won't be an upgrade to your $29 graphenes then lol. Maybe just up your budget to $100 and get the BS1 Officials, and then come back and report how much you love them, and make me even more green with envy!





seanc6441 said:


> BS1 need a perfect fit to sound right imo. Like if you don’t get it in the right position or right amount of seal it sounds like a funnel effect or a little hollow even.
> 
> But if the fit is right... woah. Exceptionally good for the price.
> 
> ...


does any difference sound between bs1 official ver. and bs1 experience ver.? experience ver. s much cheaper than official ver. which experience ver. much affordable to me due to official ver. is too higher price i think to adjust my current budget


----------



## seanc6441

MarkCavendish said:


> does any difference sound between bs1 official ver. and bs1 experience ver.? experience ver. s much cheaper than official ver. which experience ver. much affordable to me due to official ver. is too higher price i think to adjust my current budget


Not even close, sorry.

BS1 official is the brand new ‘update’ but honestly it’s at a whole new level to the decent but budget friendly BS1 experience.

If you cannot spend on the official there’s other great earbuds for cheaper, just not the bs1 experience imo.


----------



## MarkCavendish

seanc6441 said:


> Not even close, sorry.
> 
> BS1 official is the brand new ‘update’ but honestly it’s at a whole new level to the decent but budget friendly BS1 experience.
> 
> If you cannot spend on the official there’s other great earbuds for cheaper, just not the bs1 experience imo.


how about toneking to65,unicorn, and vx pro , does it improve from 29$ mx760?


----------



## audio123

seanc6441 said:


> Not even close, sorry.
> 
> BS1 official is the brand new ‘update’ but honestly it’s at a whole new level to the decent but budget friendly BS1 experience.
> 
> If you cannot spend on the official there’s other great earbuds for cheaper, just not the bs1 experience imo.


I echo Sean's thoughts. The Penon BS1 Official is in a different league.


----------



## seanc6441

MarkCavendish said:


> how about toneking to65,unicorn, and vx pro , does it improve from 29$ mx760?


VX Pro would be a good option to look into.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 3, 2018)

@MarkCavendish
I recently modded my Auglamour RX1 and it sounds phenomenal other than a slightly odd tonality somewhere in the mids (probably possible to EQ out if I found it). Overall neutral sound.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/absolute-best-budget-earbuds.812853/page-148#post-14078982

It’s so detailed and smooth. Extends better after the mods and has excellent treble now.

I REALLY love this modded version for the price. Unreal value if you opt for clarity and detail first and formost.


----------



## MarkCavendish

seanc6441 said:


> @MarkCavendish
> I recently modded my Auglamour RX1 and it sounds phenomenal other than a slightly odd tonality somewhere in the mids (probably possible to EQ out if I found it). Overall neutral sound.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/absolute-best-budget-earbuds.812853/page-148#post-14078982
> ...


is that tape? i have tried rx1 once (not mine) its bit lack of bass and mid is very forward,thick and engaging i like it , but other sectors like bass,separation and soundstage isnt suited for me.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 3, 2018)

MarkCavendish said:


> is that tape? i have tried rx1 once (not mine) its bit lack of bass and mid is very forward,thick and engaging i like it , but other sectors like bass,separation and soundstage isnt suited for me.


Yeah after doing this and using super thin donut foams the bass is present, treble is properly extended so as to sound crisp and airy but never fatiguing and the mids and soundstage open up.

Vocals are still forward but not congested I find them nice. The tape is actually badminton grip lol, can be thin tennis grip either I guess. It’s got sticky tape on one side and foam/rubber on the other. It’s ideal for this use actually.

Sound improved considerably over stock rx1. The only persistent ‘issue’ is the tonality I think caused by a peak in the upper mids/lower treble possibly. Not a huge issue, just a slight glare on some tracks.

Clarity matches $100 earbuds in most cases, extremely detailed sound in the mids.

Extension is only a slight issue now, not nearly as prevelant as the stock fit of the RX1 and regular foams.


----------



## silverfishla

seanc6441 said:


> The earpod design isn’t half bad, although I can imagine it takes a lot of tuning to make it sound right with the shell design.
> 
> I’d love to hear a capable driver inside a better contructed and updated earpod, with a more comfortable shell.


If you go back to the actual Apple earpod with this design, they actually sound very good.  Better than half the budget earbuds that I've tried and super comfy.  I actually took the drivers out of the previous version that were designed like regular earbuds and stuck those drivers in a Yuin shell.  The sound was great.  Really good drivers in those as well.  Very spacious and wide.


----------



## seanc6441

Drop around 2.4k by like 2db and raise the upper treble gently by 1db. Also push up sub bass 1-2 db. Sound very natural so it can me fixed with EQ. Good to know.


----------



## silverfishla (Mar 3, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> @MarkCavendish
> I recently modded my Auglamour RX1 and it sounds phenomenal other than a slightly odd tonality somewhere in the mids (probably possible to EQ out if I found it). Overall neutral sound.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/absolute-best-budget-earbuds.812853/page-148#post-14078982
> ...


Haha, told you that foam tape mod was good!  Now go try it on your Masya's.   Glad somebody tried it.


----------



## seanc6441

silverfishla said:


> Haha, told you that foam tape mod was good!  Now go try it on your Masya's.


Yes  That was my next job after I did rx1 and BS1 lol

Although I’m less optimistic with the Masya because the issue isn’t extension of bass/treble, but the midrange being a little weak imo.

It’s alright just nothing to wow over^^

I’ll try the mod though!


----------



## MarkCavendish

seanc6441 said:


> Yeah after doing this and using super thin donut foams the bass is present, treble is properly extended so as to sound crisp and airy but never fatiguing and the mids and soundstage open up.
> 
> Vocals are still forward but not congested I find them nice. The tape is actually badminton grip lol, can be thin tennis grip either I guess. It’s got sticky tape on one side and foam/rubber on the other. It’s ideal for this use actually.
> 
> ...


nice life hack lol


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 3, 2018)

MarkCavendish said:


> nice life hack lol



Silverfisha gave me the idea awhile back ^^

I mentioned that in the other thread I think. He is the one to praise when you buy an RX1 and turn it into a beast lol.

Seriously it’s phenomenal now.

You don’t need a $60vx pro or $100 bs1 right now. The $22 auglamour rx1, $3 badminton grip and $1 thin foams will give you what you want assuming your source can be EQ’d slightly (The EQ helps immensely).


----------



## MarkCavendish

seanc6441 said:


> Silverfisha gave me the idea awhile back ^^
> 
> I mentioned that in the other thread I think. He is the one to praise when you buy an RX1 and turn it into a beast lol.
> 
> Seriously it’s phenomenal now.


should be try on my friend's rx 1 bud first , i think to put piece of double tape around the housing


----------



## MarkCavendish

seanc6441 said:


> Silverfisha gave me the idea awhile back ^^
> 
> I mentioned that in the other thread I think. He is the one to praise when you buy an RX1 and turn it into a beast lol.
> 
> ...


badminton grip is it same with road bike grip? i have some road bike grip but not sure it will suit


----------



## seanc6441

MarkCavendish said:


> badminton grip is it same with road bike grip? i have some road bike grip but not sure it will suit


has to be this thin


----------



## stocamadas

chinmie said:


> what kind of sound signature do you prefer?



If I prefer old fashion smooth vocal ,what earbud do I has to try ?


----------



## MarkCavendish

seanc6441 said:


> has to be this thin


ah i see its different than road bike grip


----------



## seanc6441

MarkCavendish said:


> ah i see its different than road bike grip


Its thin and smooth.



stocamadas said:


> If I prefer old fashion smooth vocal ,what earbud do I has to try ?


If you have the money get the Shozy BK. Smooth natural 'analog' sound. Very thick lush snd slighty warm vocals.


----------



## stocamadas

chinmie said:


> what kind of sound signature do you prefer?



If I prefer old fashion smooth vocal ,what earbud do I has to try ?


----------



## noknok23

stocamadas said:


> If I prefer old fashion smooth vocal ,what earbud do I has to try ?



There is a DIY maker in thailand called V FRIEND or something? they are on facebook.


----------



## silverfishla

seanc6441 said:


> Yes  That was my next job after I did rx1 and BS1 lol
> 
> Although I’m less optimistic with the Masya because the issue isn’t extension of bass/treble, but the midrange being a little weak imo.
> 
> ...


That’s weird about your Masya’s because Masya is a vocal bud.  They should be the most prominent thing in the sound spectrum.  Have you tried reversing the inputs to make sure they are in the correct way?  You never know if things are wired correctly...your ears will tell you....or a multimeter.


----------



## seanc6441

silverfishla said:


> That’s weird about your Masya’s because Masya is a vocal bud.  They should be the most prominent thing in the sound spectrum.  Have you tried reversing the inputs to make sure they are in the correct way?  You never know if things are wired correctly...your ears will tell you....or a multimeter.


They are prominent, they just lack any body/weight to them. I had 2 masya’s both the same. I value the fullness and lush texture of vocals and masyas vocals are just clear.

I use it for instrumental stuff but honestly I don’t like it for vocals at all.

I tried the wires both ways, even reversed the pins on one but the sound was out of phase.


----------



## chinmie

stocamadas said:


> If I prefer old fashion smooth vocal ,what earbud do I has to try ?



TOTL buds? What kind of smooth vocals? Do you prefer thick sounding mids /vocals, or do you prefer clear and light mids?


----------



## stocamadas (Mar 3, 2018)

I am interesting the Poseidon earbud. Please compare with k's 300 Samsara. Thanks.


----------



## stocamadas

chinmie said:


> TOTL buds? What kind of smooth vocals? Do you prefer thick sounding mids /vocals, or do you prefer clear and light mids?



Yes sir TOTL earbud only. My favorite sound is slightly warm. Umm too hard to explain but my favorite singer is Willie Nelson ,James Taylor ,Carpenter ,Josh turner ,David Roth ,Jheena Lodwick etc. I have not dance ,electronic ,speed metal ,trash metal etc. song in my hardisk. I hope this information can explain what kind of sound I like. Thanks.


----------



## artpiggo

stocamadas said:


> Yes sir TOTL earbud only. My favorite sound is slightly warm. Umm too hard to explain but my favorite singer is Willie Nelson ,James Taylor ,Carpenter ,Josh turner ,David Roth ,Jheena Lodwick etc. I have not dance ,electronic ,speed metal ,trash metal etc. song in my hardisk. I hope this information can explain what kind of sound I like. Thanks.



Are you able to carry amp to use with earbud? Because I will recommend either ve zen or pk1 with some good amp like alo rx3b or cypherlab duet.

But if you want real portable, I recommend shozy stardust.


----------



## stocamadas

artpiggo said:


> Are you able to carry amp to use with earbud? Because I will recommend either ve zen or pk1 with some good amp like alo rx3b or cypherlab duet.
> 
> But if you want real portable, I recommend shozy stardust.



I have Pico power amp. I tried VE Zen 2 and PK1 but I think Zen2 is too dark and PK1 is too bright. I like BK and TO200. Now I search for better earbud if possible. Thanks.


----------



## artpiggo

stocamadas said:


> I have Pico power amp. I tried VE Zen 2 and PK1 but I think Zen2 is too dark and PK1 is too bright. I like BK and TO200. Now I search for better earbud if possible. Thanks.



Just notice you are from same city. After knowing those earbuds you have been listening till now, so hard for me to recommend another.


----------



## chinmie

stocamadas said:


> Yes sir TOTL earbud only. My favorite sound is slightly warm. Umm too hard to explain but my favorite singer is Willie Nelson ,James Taylor ,Carpenter ,Josh turner ,David Roth ,Jheena Lodwick etc. I have not dance ,electronic ,speed metal ,trash metal etc. song in my hardisk. I hope this information can explain what kind of sound I like. Thanks.



Nice soothing selection there sir! 

Here's my suggestions:
Liebesleid - most mid clarity/treble sparkle, largest soundstage. The most impressive technically, but also the most expensive. 

Puresound PS100-500 /600 - similar like Liebesleid with more bass, but smaller stage and clarity treble (the 600 is rather power hungry though.  Must use an amp. The 500 can still be driven by phones) 

Yinman 600 /500 -similar to puresound with thicker mids and overall warmer sound. Treble also slightly more sparkly. The 500 is warmer than 600

Rose Masya - similar to Yinman 600 with wider stage and more relaxed mids


----------



## artpiggo

chinmie said:


> Nice soothing selection there sir!
> 
> Here's my suggestions:
> Liebesleid - most mid clarity/treble sparkle, largest soundstage. The most impressive technically, but also the most expensive.
> ...



How Liebesleid compare to rose mojito?
Is it cable changeable?


----------



## chinmie

Also i didn't recommend the BK on my list, not because it's not good (it's great actually), but for my taste, listening to the music that @stocamadas listed, the BK seems a bit boxed in with too intimate staging and boxed vocals (definitely personal view)


----------



## chinmie

artpiggo said:


> How Liebesleid compare to rose mojito?
> Is it cable changeable?



The cable ia not changeable like mojito. The sound is similar, but with warmer signature and friendlier to more selections of music. I could not stand the mojito for vocals and modern music


----------



## artpiggo

chinmie said:


> The cable ia not changeable like mojito. The sound is similar, but with warmer signature and friendlier to more selections of music. I could not stand the mojito for vocals and modern music



Thanks for your input. Well, if it has nearly similar sound quality but just a slight different tone, I will just stick with mojito + upgrade cable with matched source.

Thanks!


----------



## Guggga (Mar 4, 2018)

@HungryPanda - do you have the willsound mk2 and Bs1 official both? Could you please compare them? Which other willsound buds do you have? Tia


----------



## HungryPanda

I only have the willsound mk2 not the bs1


----------



## H.L.

I'm sorry, I am not good at English.
NICEHCK EBX is more popular than BS1 and Liebesleid among people around me.
EBX has a warmer sound than BS1 and a wide sound field. It is energetic and fun sound.
If you exchange cables and balance connections, you will get better sound.
Liebesleid is very heavy and does not fit, it is difficult to feel the original good sound quality.


----------



## chinmie

Guggga said:


> @HungryPanda - do you have the willsound mk2 and Bs1 official both? Could you please compare them? Which other willsound buds do you have? Tia



the BS1 have more forward mids, larger left to right stage, but a bit finicky to position change on the ear. Cable is solidly built (some might find them heavy, but i like it).MK2 have more kick on the bass and treble volume. Both have good treble and bass extension. Both are great all arounder


----------



## jrazmar

That EBX...Not too many people have talked about it but looking online, it got good reviews actually excellent ones. Just got recently the NiceHCK DIY Graphene and been listening to it in the office. It sounded like the Cygnus but more neutral and has wider/deeper stage. Everything just sound balanced. Nothing piercing or overattenuated. Not sure how to say it but I can put more volume without getting fatigue. Still quality-wise, the Cygnus has the better mids and bass but for overall tonality, I'm leaning towards the DIY Graphene but still too early to tell. I guess those who say that it is 80% of the BK might be correct in their description. Here's a shot I took with my phone.


----------



## chinmie

jrazmar said:


> I'm leaning towards the DIY Graphene but still too early to tell. I guess those who say that it is 80% of the BK might be correct in their description.



I never find that the Graphene and the BK similar at all


----------



## Guggga (Mar 4, 2018)

chinmie said:


> the BS1 have more forward mids, larger left to right stage, but a bit finicky to position change on the ear. Cable is solidly built (some might find them heavy, but i like it).MK2 have more kick on the bass and treble volume. Both have good treble and bass extension. Both are great all arounder



Thanks for the impressions Chinmie. Was it you who sold off the Bs1 because of the finicky fit? I had similar issues with the edimun v3 rho and sold mine within a week of havin it , also cus the willsound mk2 blew it away!

I'm wondering if the nice hck ebx would be a worthy upgrade over my mk2  se now or should I go after the mk1 and mk3


----------



## stocamadas

zeta555 said:


> i bought it from a seller here who ordered it from taobao.
> 
> but the last time I looked, the silver version is not available anymore. only the gold and platinum version which cost 10x the silver one.
> 
> ...



it wasn't available. Where can I buy finalacoustics Poseidon ? Thanks.


----------



## gazzington

Anybody here got opinions on cayin n5ii, ibasso dx80, opus 1s or the shanling m3s? I'm after a new dap for out and about and work.


----------



## chinmie

Guggga said:


> Thanks for the impressions Chinmie. Was it you who sold off the Bs1 because of the finicky fit? I had similar issues with the edimun v3 rho and sold mine within a week of havin it , also cus the willsound mk2 blew it away!
> 
> I'm wondering if the nice hck ebx would be a worthy upgrade over my mk2  se now or should I go after the mk1 and mk3



No, i don't own the BS1. I auditioned my friend's, and found out i didn't really into the BS1. 
I also sold my edimun recently. It's a great earbuds, but i also prefer the MK2 more than it now. The MK1 is too warm sounding on the mid bass and rolled off on the treble for me, but i am intrigued by the MK3 as it is leaner on the mids and said to have more clarity than MK2. I am going to audition it first though,  because if it similar sounding to my other buds, i won't  buy them


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> I never find that the Graphene and the BK similar at all


Thankyou! You and me both, they don’t sound the same at all. Yet there’s a review on headfi saying they are almost identical lol.


----------



## seanc6441

gazzington said:


> Anybody here got opinions on cayin n5ii, ibasso dx80, opus 1s or the shanling m3s? I'm after a new dap for out and about and work.


I’m returning my n5ii. It’s got a stale low mids imo. Not lush and just dry and unengaging!

Bass is awesome though and treble is natural and nicely airy. Soundstage is nice too. But the mids are all detail and texture but no lush qualities imo.


----------



## seanc6441

Guggga said:


> Thanks for the impressions Chinmie. Was it you who sold off the Bs1 because of the finicky fit? I had similar issues with the edimun v3 rho and sold mine within a week of havin it , also cus the willsound mk2 blew it away!
> 
> I'm wondering if the nice hck ebx would be a worthy upgrade over my mk2  se now or should I go after the mk1 and mk3


The BS1 fit is finicky. I’m not surprised if people here it and say no at first listen.

I have my bs1 for months and only recently have a found a fit that offers exceptional SQ. 

Over ear and added foam tape around to improve the fit/seal. Now it’s pretty amazing when you adjust it in the ear... I’ll continue to tweak it until it’s effortless to use with best SQ. The driver is really amazing but the shell isn’t working well with it.

If the shell was more like Rose Masya type, wide but not fat/bulky. Or like Moondrop Nameless, I think it would be much better SQ out of the box. It needs wide face but narrow body to get the right seal for the tonality and powerful dynamics to be heard.


----------



## gazzington

seanc6441 said:


> I’m returning my n5ii. It’s got a stale low mids imo. Not lush and just dry and unengaging!
> 
> Bass is awesome though and treble is natural and nicely airy. Soundstage is nice too. But the mids are all detail and texture but no lush qualities imo.


Hmm I don't like the sound of that! I like a lush sound too. Anybody have any suggestions?


----------



## MarkCavendish

im curious what kind of soundsig/earbud that would suit to these songs
1.
2.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 4, 2018)

gazzington said:


> Hmm I don't like the sound of that! I like a lush sound too. Anybody have any suggestions?


Thanks to the suggestion of Artpiggo I will probably go for the Vivo Xplay 6 smartphone. Or look at the Hiby R3 (little bro of the R6) it looks really nice!

The Xplay 6 is described like a slightly warmer more euphoric version of LG V20. The V20 is really nice just lacks some warmth and low mid lush quality in low impendance earbuds. But it’s still very good overall.


----------



## krunchcrispy

MarkCavendish said:


> im curious what kind of soundsig/earbud that would suit to these songs
> 1.
> 2.



I like the emx500 or the X6 (though the X6 mids are a bit recessed, its sub bass and treble extension are excellent, X6's soundstage is wide, a little high, and a little deep). Emx500, to me, has a big airy soundstage (most 3D imho) with lots of separation between the instruments that suite big, grandiose music like this (after listening, I also like the K's 300 with these, too -- though the EMX500's sub bass is a bit deeper).


----------



## seanc6441

MarkCavendish said:


> im curious what kind of soundsig/earbud that would suit to these songs
> 1.
> 2.




First video 

Masya 5/5 (extension of high’s, clear and vivid, captures the dynamics perfectly)

BS1 5/5 (nearly as extended, dynamic and clear, deeper soundstage gives a more impressive powerful presentation of the build up)

RX1 4.5/5 (Clear, slightly struggling with dynamics and extension, not as powerful.)

Second video

Masya 4/5 (Has the extension needed and sounds clear but lacks some depth in soundstage and imaging. Sounds are wide but confined to two planes/2D area’s left and right so to speak, not as smooth sounding as bs1)

bs1 5/5 (nothing to say other than its perfect, deep powerful clear and makes the song more exciting and the 3D imaging is noticeable)

RX1 3.5/5 (really struggles with this kind of music which strains the extension of bass and high’s . Imaging is good though, very natural.


----------



## vladstef

@seanc6441 , it's quite amazing how RX-1 keeps coming up every now and then.
I get why some people dislike them, you really need to spend time finding the best way to fit them, but when you do, they end up being very valuable. I really enjoy them, but only sometimes when I feel like it, it's quite a special sounding bud imho. It gets better the more you listen to them but sound strange when being compared.


----------



## MarkCavendish

seanc6441 said:


> First video
> 
> Masya 5/5 (extension of high’s, clear and vivid, captures the dynamics perfectly)
> 
> ...





krunchcrispy said:


> I like the emx500 or the X6 (though the X6 mids are a bit recessed, its sub bass and treble extension are excellent, X6's soundstage is wide, a little high, and a little deep). Emx500, to me, has a big airy soundstage (most 3D imho) with lots of separation between the instruments that suite big, grandiose music like this (after listening, I also like the K's 300 with these, too -- though the EMX500's sub bass is a bit deeper).


thank you guys for sharing your opinions


----------



## B9Scrambler

vladstef said:


> @seanc6441 , it's quite amazing how RX-1 keeps coming up every now and then.
> I get why some people dislike them, you really need to *spend time finding the best way to fit them*, but when you do, they end up being very valuable. I really enjoy them, but only sometimes when I feel like it, it's quite a special sounding bud imho. It gets better the more you listen to them but sound strange when being compared.



Couldn't agree more. I was pretty disappointed with them at first, threw them back in their packaging, and returned a month or so later. Spent some time rolling foams and was surprised I was listening to the same bud. The stubby housings really do make them extremely fit dependent. More so than most buds in my limited experience.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 4, 2018)

vladstef said:


> @seanc6441 , it's quite amazing how RX-1 keeps coming up every now and then.
> I get why some people dislike them, you really need to spend time finding the best way to fit them, but when you do, they end up being very valuable. I really enjoy them, but only sometimes when I feel like it, it's quite a special sounding bud imho. It gets better the more you listen to them but sound strange when being compared.


Yeah I think it has a peak somewhere between 2-3k and if you EQ down that area the tonality becomes natural.

That’s why I think it sounds ‘digital’ or artificial in stock, Female vocals sound off until EQ’d.

If the source is tuned with a slight U shape or if you EQ up the deep bass and upper treble a few DB this also helps balance out the sound, being slightly mid centric by default.


----------



## miroslav

I’ve just applied the thin tape mod to MX760 new graphene and it actually improved the sound. The sound image is more coherent, there’s more depth and details, bass response is firmer. I suppose it’s the result of a better seal.

I’m shooting all those wicked sheriffs with Bob Marley as I type. No mercy!


----------



## jogawag

seanc6441 said:


> Thanks to the suggestion of Artpiggo I will probably go for the Vivo Xplay 6 smartphone. Or look at the Hiby R3 (little bro of the R6) it looks really nice!
> 
> The Xplay 6 is described like a slightly warmer more euphoric version of LG V20. The V20 is really nice just lacks some warmth and low mid lush quality in low impendance earbuds. But it’s still very good overall.



I recommend ONKYO GRANBEAT to you.
Unlike other smartphones, it has a communication / camera function added to DAP (ONKYO DP-X1), so it has a reputation that it is clearly superior in terms of sound quality.
However, since it is a Japanese product, you need to check if it has a communication band available in your country.


----------



## seanc6441

B9Scrambler said:


> Couldn't agree more. I was pretty disappointed with them at first, threw them back in their packaging, and returned a month or so later. Spent some time rolling foams and was surprised I was listening to the same bud. The stubby housings really do make them extremely fit dependent. More so than most buds in my limited experience.





jogawag said:


> I recommend ONKYO GRANBEAT to you.
> Unlike other smartphones, it has a communication / camera function added to DAP (ONKYO DP-X1), so it has a reputation that it is clearly superior in terms of sound quality.
> However, since it is a Japanese product, you need to check if it has a communication band available in your country.


I think it cost considerably more? I can get an xplay6 for €450 or Hiby R3 I think will be €200-250.


----------



## jogawag (Mar 4, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> I think it cost considerably more? I can get an xplay6 for €450 or Hiby R3 I think will be €200-250.


Perhaps you can get ONKYO GRANBEAT for $ 699.99.
http://www.amazon.com//dp/B01N6ZH6PB

Edit:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/onkyo-dp-cmx1-granbeat-dual-dac-balanced-phone-dap.819411/


----------



## jrazmar (Mar 4, 2018)

@seanc6441 and @chinmie I respect your opinion as obviously I never heard the BK but let me ask another question, does the cygnus have the same sound sig as the BK. If different, how different? Also, what qualities does the cygnus and bk have in common? From what I have heard so far, the graphene sounds very close to the cygnus.


----------



## seanc6441

jogawag said:


> Perhaps you can get ONKYO GRANBEAT for $ 699.99.
> http://www.amazon.com//dp/B01N6ZH6PB
> 
> Edit:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/onkyo-dp-cmx1-granbeat-dual-dac-balanced-phone-dap.819411/


I’d have to weigh up the benefits of higher end dap when using streaming services like spotify which are limited by android (except for the new hiby daps) so it may not be worth it for my use.

The hiby R3 is really tempting, it doesn’t run android though and only tidal is confirmed so far, not sure if it will even get spotify support.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 4, 2018)

jrazmar said:


> @seanc6441 and @chinmie I respect your opinion as obviously I never heard the BK but let me ask another question, does the cygnus have the same sound sig as the BK. If different, how different? Also, what qualities does the cygnus and bk have in common? From what I have heard so far, the graphene sounds very close to the cygnus.


Cygnus is more neutral (bk is slightly warmer and more naturally lush/thick) , has a mid bass bump and slightly more sub bass and treble roll off, imaging and separation isnt as crisp. Vocals are less full and textured.

The bk is like 10-20% better in every regard except soundstage is pretty much the same size.

It’s not so much the quality difference between graphene and bk (although that’s the case too) but the tuning is different to my ears. I think the graphene’s are not consistent, maybe yours is more balanced than mine. My $29 nicehck graphene is a little V shape with overpowering mid bass, sharp treble and recessed mids. The BK is pretty linear and even other than a slightly emphasised lower mids/mid bass it’s quite balanced and very natural sounding.


----------



## mochill

I feel that the soundstage is wider and deeper on the stardust


----------



## seanc6441

mochill said:


> I feel that the soundstage is wider and deeper on the stardust


Yeah it’s deeper for sure, forgot about that. I think the thickness of vocals makes the soundstage seem smaller or near the same but maybe it’s slightly bigger overall. The cygnus is quite shallow sounding in comparison though, like the sound has one layer, the bk/masya can reach a second and the bs1 a third depth


----------



## MarkCavendish

jrazmar said:


> @seanc6441 and @chinmie I respect your opinion as obviously I never heard the BK but let me ask another question, does the cygnus have the same sound sig as the BK. If different, how different? Also, what qualities does the cygnus and bk have in common? From what I have heard so far, the graphene sounds very close to the cygnus.


Idk im correct or not but i have tried cygnus of my friend's and compared to my nicehck diy pk2 , my diy pk2 seems close sounding to cygnus ,sweet and warm and mid section is forwarded and thick seems bit analog to me and didnt harsh at all , soundstage has bit smaller but it make the sound intimate and engaging ,to me cygnus win at all sector though like good bass impact ,separation and cygnus vocal more airy and natural to me than diy pk2 , i think its good to worth upgrade from diy pk2 to cygnus , and BK never heard too but it seems to be good totl earbuds


----------



## seanc6441

MarkCavendish said:


> Idk im correct or not but i have tried cygnus of my friend's and compared to my nicehck diy pk2 , my diy pk2 seems close sounding to cygnus ,sweet and warm and mid section is forwarded and thick seems bit analog to me and didnt harsh at all , soundstage has bit smaller but it make the sound intimate and engaging ,to me cygnus win at all sector though like good bass impact ,separation and cygnus vocal more airy and natural to me than diy pk2 , i think its good to worth upgrade from diy pk2 to cygnus , and BK never heard too but it seems to be good totl earbuds


Yes the same upgrade can be heard from cygnus to bk (I own all 3).


----------



## jrazmar (Mar 4, 2018)

Most probably I'm preferring the graphene over the cygnus now because of the slightly recessed mids or could it be that the soundstage is better on the graphene which helps with the overall tuning and separation. I could understand that there may be inconsistency with the builds or different versions of this graphene earbuds being a DIY but maybe I'm just lucky to have a more coherent and ear-friendly unit. Thanks @seanc6441 for your inputs. Do you know if the graphene requires burn-in to sound at its fullest? Listening to it now, I'm still amazed how holographic the sound is and how I can turn the volume more than on the cygnus and EMX500 without sounding "shouty" while maintaining balance across the spectrum. If it could have the mids quality of the cygnus, then this could be the perfect earphone for me. I will report here if that impression changes over time.


----------



## chinmie

@jrazmar sorry i haven't hear the Cygnus yet so i can't comment. 
The graphene doesn't really need burn in.it might smoothen out a little, but it's pretty much the same.


----------



## mochill

Everything needs burn in


----------



## jrazmar

chinmie said:


> @jrazmar sorry i haven't hear the Cygnus yet so i can't comment.
> The graphene doesn't really need burn in.it might smoothen out a little, but it's pretty much the same.



Not a problem, chinmie. Listening now via my P1 with BBE on and just randomly selected a song (Spanish Harlem by Rebecca Pidgeon) and wow. Normally if I'm not familiar with the song, I immediately press the Next button. Not in this case and ended up finishing the whole song with a big grin on my face.


----------



## jrazmar

One thing that I discovered though, maybe it's also synergy. My graphene sounds better overall (more impactful, more separated, more holographic) on my Google Pixel via Spotify extreme quality than on my P1 with and without BBE with 320kbps mp3s. Not sure why but I ended up listening to my phone.


----------



## waynes world

jrazmar said:


> Most probably I'm preferring the graphene over the cygnus now because of the slightly recessed mids or could it be that the soundstage is better on the graphene which helps with the overall tuning and separation. I could understand that there may be inconsistency with the builds or different versions of this graphene earbuds being a DIY but maybe I'm just lucky to have a more coherent and ear-friendly unit. Thanks @seanc6441 for your inputs. Do you know if the graphene requires burn-in to sound at its fullest? Listening to it now, I'm still amazed how holographic the sound is and how I can turn the volume more than on the cygnus and EMX500 without sounding "shouty" while maintaining balance across the spectrum. If it could have the mids quality of the cygnus, then this could be the perfect earphone for me. I will report here if that impression changes over time.



We are kindred graphene spirits my friend!


----------



## HungryPanda

graphene drivers are pretty good, at least all the ones I've heard


----------



## MarkCavendish

that's why im really love how graphene sounding, except they cable ,really easy to oxidation


----------



## chinmie

The mx760 graphene is good, but my favourite graphene buds is the **** PT15


----------



## jrazmar (Mar 5, 2018)

Honestly, it's the first time ever for me to really enjoy very extended treble in music without a hint of harshness or unsolicited spikes. At the same time, all the right notes are not in any way missing or lacking. In fact, it's very tasty and makes me want to listen to music types (modern pop music for example) that I don't normally finish listening more due to early fatigue and discomfort. This graphene thing has its magic working. Whether it's real or fake, NiceHCK did a fantastic job with the tuning. I'm in the office now but I can't put the phone down anytime soon. The best part is it's only $29. Wondering how the higher-priced EBX sounds like but I think it's not graphene.


----------



## WC Annihilus

I'm ready


----------



## AmericanEDC

All I see from the original post is a series of photos and identifying labels. Can someone please tell me how to see the reviews or explanations regarding each of the headphones. I've been launching pages and it's a running discussion that I have no reference for. Any suggestions? Thank you! I have a couple pair on the way that people have recommended. The VE Monk Plus is one of them.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 6, 2018)

AmericanEDC said:


> All I see from the original post is a series of photos and identifying labels. Can someone please tell me how to see the reviews or explanations regarding each of the headphones. I've been launching pages and it's a running discussion that I have no reference for. Any suggestions? Thank you! I have a couple pair on the way that people have recommended. The VE Monk Plus is one of them.


I suggest sticking to the latter pages for more relevant suggestions, VE monk plus is somewhat obsolete in today's budget earbuds, you can get better SQ for a similar price.

Have a look at this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...2RK-1_XnAo/pubhtml?gid=1362510242&single=true

Each tier represents an approximate price group, tier 5 costing around $3-20 and tier 1 $200-500, and you can use the search function to find out more about each of the buds ranked here.

Alternatively you can give us a rough idea of price, sound signature, fit (if you want a smaller or bigger shell for comfort) and maybe what genres of music you listen to.

Then we can recommend you some options!


----------



## teesui

AmericanEDC said:


> All I see from the original post is a series of photos and identifying labels. Can someone please tell me how to see the reviews or explanations regarding each of the headphones. I've been launching pages and it's a running discussion that I have no reference for. Any suggestions? Thank you! I have a couple pair on the way that people have recommended. The VE Monk Plus is one of them.



You can use the "Search this Thread" feature find reviews/impressions of a particular earbud.


----------



## mbwilson111

AmericanEDC said:


> The VE Monk Plus is one of them.





seanc6441 said:


> VE monk plus is somewhat obsolete in today's budget earbuds,



I love my Monks.  Never hurts to start with a classic...especially for the price.   Whenever I put in my Monks, I end up listening for hours..totally enjoying my music.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 6, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I love my Monks.  Never hurts to start with a classic...especially for the price.   Whenever I put in my Monks, I end up listening for hours..totally enjoying my music.


Yeah I try to explain it as ‘they’re good, but the competition is possibly better’ by today’s standard, although it may come across as me calling them bad, when they are definitely not! Because so many have heard of the monk hype and may be disappointed because earbuds have come along ever further now. Allowing for much better extension of bass and treble whilst retaining midrange quality and more detail and clarity than the monks.

The monks are nice and brought popularity back to earbuds, but I think the emx500/vido/pk2/rx1 are more competitive price-performance.


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> The monks are nice and brought popularity back to earbuds, but I think the emx500/vido/pk2/rx1 are more competitive price-performance.



I understand your point.  My point had nothing to do with that.  

I own those last two.  I have access to the first two through my husband.but have never bothered to listen to them. Also keep in mind that I have excellent sources.  The Monk plus is 64 ohm.


----------



## AmericanEDC (Mar 6, 2018)

Thanks! For $9.90 or so delivered I won’t look back on the Monks. I can always give to the kids. I hate sibilance....makes me cringe. Would prefer clean upper bass and forward mids I think. Really enjoying my Sennheiser 6xx off Massdrop, amped with the Creative e5.

I’m definitely going to start researching and thanks seanc6441 for the link.

My musical taste is:
Rush, Zeppelin, Dire Straits, Mark Knopfler, Kristina Train, Karen Carpenter, Croce, Aesop Rock, Pearl Jam, Idol, some occasional dance beat club mixes, some 80’s stuff like Tears For Fears. Occasional jazz. Current Pop maybe. On earbuds it would probably be the occasional fall asleep...so Enya, Celtic, calming instrumental.

Not dubstep, don’t like much hip hop, no electronic.

Budget: under $50 for multiple. Over $50 for knock me off my ass. I’m thinking of getting g the Apple EarPods at $170 just for the ridiculous convenience and good enough without catching a cord on everything. I own 10 other pair of Bluetooth I don’t use, just too much isolation.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Mar 6, 2018)

AmericanEDC said:


> I’m definitely going to start researching and thanks seanc6441 for the link.



Uh oh... I started with a Monk...now look at my list . Mine is not as long as many...  This can become an addiction...particularly because you can try many quite inexpensively.



AmericanEDC said:


> Zeppelin, Dire Straits, Mark Knopfler



Now I want to listen to them...

Actually listening to David Knopfler as I type this.



AmericanEDC said:


> Would prefer clean upper bass and forward mids I think.



I think you will be happy.  The Monks do not cause listeners fatigue in my experience. What else did you order?


----------



## B9Scrambler

I honestly found the Monk+ decent, but a disappointment coming from the previous version. Lacked the refinement and bass quality. Simply sounded, and felt, like a cheaper product. If I hadn't heard/owned the prior version, I'm sure I would have been completely happy with the Monk+, but that's not the case.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 6, 2018)

AmericanEDC said:


> Thanks! For $9.90 or so delivered I won’t look back on the Monks. I can always give to the kids. I hate sibilance....makes me cringe. Would prefer clean upper bass and forward mids I think. Really enjoying my Sennheiser 6xx off Massdrop, amped with the Creative e5.
> 
> I’m definitely going to start researching and thanks seanc6441 for the link.
> 
> ...



Budget Range

RX1 (with some EQ and other tweaks): Clear and most detailed under $50, smooth, lush-full forward vocals/mids, neutral tonality and fairly balanced response. Not as extended in sub bass or treble as others but enough to enjoy most music, but very smooth and refined so absolutely no sibilence or harshness. Good imaging and close-medium sized soundstage.

Monk plus: (Darker, warmer mid centric signature, very airy and light sound, soundstage is quite decent. No sub bass or treble extension so avoid genres that require this)

Moondrop Nameless: (don’t own myself): Balanced, slightly warm, separatation and wide soundstage, relaxed and smooth signature... apperantly very good and great build quality for the price (metal shell).

“Knock you on your ass earbuds”

Shozy BK: Natural, neutral-slightly warm signature, linear response with slight sub bass roll off, analog tuning with a slight lower mid bump for deep vocal emphasis, airy up top, extremely lush thick vocals gives a similar experience to full size cans. Great resolution/detail and instrumental separation. Intimate forward soundstage, just enough width and depth to enjoy most genres other than EDM/atmospheric stuff, definitely a smaller soundstage overall but with excellent imaging. Love the classy look, very nice cable and understated matte black finish

Penon BS1 (worn over ear and with fit tweaks): Neutral in tonality and balanced, medium body to the vocals, very smooth and lush. Little brighter than the BK with more of an emphasis on female vocals, but has a lovely balance of sub and mid bass with the right fit. Almost as detailed as the bk, clarity is too notch. Soundstage (again with the right fit) is large and airy, imaging is headphone standard 3D and accurate (I mean it). Best value for performance of all my premium earbuds. Cable and build quality is amazing but a little on the heavy side.

My advice is to get budget earbuds and get some premium ones after if you feel like upgrading , maybe avoid mid range from $30-80 because it’s not always an impressive jump in SQ but going from $20 to $100+ will be much more pleasing. Besides the budget stuff is extremely nice price-performance and I still enjoy it along with my more expensive stuff for various uses.

Of course if you want to collect lots of earbuds do whatever you like ) But if you’re looking to get the most out of your earbuds budget and premium offerings make sense for practical reasons and listening enjoyment respectively.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 6, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> I honestly found the Monk+ decent, but a disappointment coming from the previous version. Lacked the refinement and bass quality. Simply sounded, and felt, like a cheaper product. If I hadn't heard/owned the prior version, I'm sure I would have been completely happy with the Monk+, but that's not the case.


I found it amazing in the mids/vocals coming from earpods (monk + got me into this in the first place) but even back then i was missing the bass and treble. It sounded wonderfully pleasant though, with acoustic stuff especially.


----------



## chinmie

AmericanEDC said:


> Thanks! For $9.90 or so delivered I won’t look back on the Monks. I can always give to the kids. I hate sibilance....makes me cringe. Would prefer clean upper bass and forward mids I think. Really enjoying my Sennheiser 6xx off Massdrop, amped with the Creative e5.
> 
> I’m definitely going to start researching and thanks seanc6441 for the link.
> 
> ...



Based on your preference:
budget: Auglamour RX1, **** PT15, Sharp MD, Qian 69.

Going up, you might want to try the Yinman and puresound earbuds


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> Based on your preference:
> budget: Auglamour RX1, **** PT15, Sharp MD, Qian 69.
> 
> Going up, you might want to try the Yinman and puresound earbuds


RX1 definitely for anyone sensitive to sibilance and looking for good vocal quality. Especially paired with a slightly warmer source to take the edge off that neutral tonality.


----------



## chinmie

On a side note  I've been experimenting trying my earbuds with an 100 ohm impedance adapter that i got for my ER4XR, and i quite like the results. It gives smoother attack and a more "polished" sound. Loving it with my Yinman 500, Svara L, and Willsound MK2


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> On a side note  I've been experimenting trying my earbuds with an 100 ohm impedance adapter that i got for my ER4XR, and i quite like the results. It gives smoother attack and a more "polished" sound. Loving it with my Yinman 500, Svara L, and Willsound MK2


Hmm interesting, does it not dull the sound too much? I guess it depends on the earbud.  You can get 50 ohm impendance adapters too much effect them to a lesser extent.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Hmm interesting, does it not dull the sound too much? I guess it depends on the earbud.  You can get 50 ohm impendance adapters too much effect them to a lesser extent.



It does reduces treble  but in a tasteful way.  Better than attenuating treble with thicker foams. I put thin foams (that dollar for a hundred pieces one) on almost all my buds (i put the descriptions on my profile page). 

When i use the impedance adapter on the hifh impedance buds like yinman 500 and puresounds 500, it doesn't reduce volume too much, and treble reduction is also minimal


----------



## syakuron

How does liebeslied compared to poseidon?
What about poseidon to cax red dragon?
Never owned earbud before. I have flc8s, i really liked the vocals on it (red-clear-none). Would any of them trumps flc8s in the vocals department?

I want to experience a wide and deep soundstage, since I can't get those with iems.

I'll also be trying zoomfred next weekend.


----------



## silverfishla (Mar 6, 2018)

AmericanEDC said:


> Thanks! For $9.90 or so delivered I won’t look back on the Monks. I can always give to the kids. I hate sibilance....makes me cringe. Would prefer clean upper bass and forward mids I think. Really enjoying my Sennheiser 6xx off Massdrop, amped with the Creative e5.
> 
> I’m definitely going to start researching and thanks seanc6441 for the link.
> 
> ...


Knock your socks off?  80's New Wave?  The Carpenters?  The answer is Rose Mojito.  One of the buds that does balanced output very well, too.  Interchangable cable.  My fav.


----------



## B9Scrambler

:3 Just because.


----------



## waynes world

B9Scrambler said:


> I honestly found the Monk+ decent, but a disappointment coming from the previous version. Lacked the refinement and bass quality. Simply sounded, and felt, like a cheaper product. If I hadn't heard/owned the prior version, I'm sure I would have been completely happy with the Monk+, but that's not the case.



Yup, we were blessed and/or cursed with the originals (same with the zen1.0's).

I really love the monk lite 120's though.


----------



## seanc6441

syakuron said:


> How does liebeslied compared to poseidon?
> What about poseidon to cax red dragon?
> Never owned earbud before. I have flc8s, i really liked the vocals on it (red-clear-none). Would any of them trumps flc8s in the vocals department?
> 
> ...


Give that zoomefred a shot first! Cypherus is a legendary earbud maker around here so it may be very good!

If you want the difference between poseidon and liebesleid roughly

 “Technically both Liebesleid and Poseidon are at the current ToTL level, but sonically they are tuned very differently. Liebesleid is detailed, open and almost neutral with a particularly good female vocal. Poseidon is warm, musical,smooth and enveloping with an excellent lowend.” -ClieOS

Red Dragon is apparently the best of the best to experience a ‘full size headphone’ in an earbud. It also cost at least double the price of the others mentioned here...


----------



## chinmie

syakuron said:


> How does liebeslied compared to poseidon?
> What about poseidon to cax red dragon?
> Never owned earbud before. I have flc8s, i really liked the vocals on it (red-clear-none). Would any of them trumps flc8s in the vocals department?
> 
> ...



The Liebesleid and Poseidon is like polar opposite to each other. Liebesleid focuses on treble clarity and have light bass, while the Poseidon focuses on bass and have slight rolled off treble.

Soundstage is king on both, no other eadbuds came close in my opinion (with the exception of Rose Mojito. They are about the same level)  with the Liebesleid having an airy openback headphone-like stage, and Poseidon having an engulfing closedback headphone style. 

Never tried the red dragon, but from what i know the cable is really thick that it can be hard to use without staying still


----------



## DBaldock9

chinmie said:


> The mx760 graphene is good, but my favourite graphene buds is the **** PT15



I've got the NiceHCK DIY Graphene (2017) [$29.53], which is in a MX760 shell, and the **** PT15 (2017) [$7.90].
I like the sound of both earbuds, but it seems like the NiceHCK Graphene goes a bit lower in the Bass.
Their Midrange & Treble are clear and detailed - things like the applause & acoustic guitars on live albums, sounds more _real_ than some of my more expensive earbuds.
The PT15, at under $8 (without cable), is certainly an amazing deal for a Graphene driver.


----------



## chinmie

DBaldock9 said:


> I've got the NiceHCK DIY Graphene (2017) [$29.53], which is in a MX760 shell, and the **** PT15 (2017) [$7.90].
> I like the sound of both earbuds, but it seems like the NiceHCK Graphene goes a bit lower in the Bass.
> Their Midrange & Treble are clear and detailed - things like the applause & acoustic guitars on live albums, sounds more _real_ than some of my more expensive earbuds.
> The PT15, at under $8 (without cable), is certainly an amazing deal for a Graphene driver.



The MX760 graphene has a distinct smooth sound. I like it, but sometimes for me it's a bit too smooth, especially considering it has a rather long decay on the lows. Also the thing i don't like about it is a bit big in my ears, and listening to binaural music (like amber rubarth's sessions from the 17th ward) , there seems to be a blind spot on the soundstage on the center.

I don't know if they fixed that on the later version though


----------



## liquidrats (Mar 7, 2018)

BS1 Official just burned through.. very very nice on black panther's soundtrack..
Added on a ear guide which helps to keep it in place to get consistent sound...


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 7, 2018)

liquidrats said:


> BS1 Official just burned through.. very very nice on black panther's soundtrack..
> Added on a ear guide which helps to keep it in place to get consistent sound...


Try over ear if possible. I’ve even added a thin ring of foam tape to get the best fit for SQ.

The soundstage completely opens up, its now the biggest of any earbud I own including the Rose Masya which previously had it beat of spaciousness.

Also the vocals take a nice bump forward, I think this is got to do with the sound being more airy and the angle of the driver being altered slightly. Vocals have become much more defined which is a very welcome change.

You can see by the size of the diameter that the foam is underneath the donut pad
 

and also (and this I found equally as important to get the most airy and effortless soundstage expansion) I completely unobstructed the back ports/vents on the shell as seem here
 

you can kind of see it on the bottom... sorry i was hard to get a good picture of it!


----------



## DancingShaman

mbwilson111 said:


> Uh oh... I started with a Monk...now look at my list . Mine is not as long as many...  This can become an addiction...particularly because you can try many quite inexpensively.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh my look at that list!! It must be so fun to rotate. 

What would be your favorite iem out of that list? 

Cheers.


----------



## haiku

Proud new owner of the one of a kind "Nec Rahu gold silver naga" earbuds by Muchjurat Luzifer. Sound stellar right out of the box and look like jewelry. Thanks so much Muchjurat! I´m a big fan now!


----------



## seanc6441

haiku said:


> Proud new owner of the one of a kind "Nec Rahu gold silver naga" earbuds by Muchjurat Luzifer. Sound stellar right out of the box and look like jewelry. Thanks so much Muchjurat! I´m a big fan now!


Why is there a little dude in place of the 3.5mm jack?


----------



## Narayan23

mbwilson111 said:


> Uh oh... I started with a Monk...now look at my list . Mine is not as long as many...



This was the last person seen checking out mbwilson´s and Hungry Panda´s combined list of audio property, it was two weeks ago and apparently he´s still at it


----------



## mbwilson111 (Mar 7, 2018)

Narayan23 said:


> This was the last person seen checking out mbwilson´s and Hungry Panda´s combined list of audio property, it was two weeks ago and apparently he´s still at it




Just because all of this gear resides in the same house does not mean I have heard all of his or he mine   I don't even want to listen to all of his!  My poor ears!

To be honest,  I am overwhelmed having so many choices.  I have quite a few things, especially the iems that have had very little head time.  Not quite sure how it happened....

The worst part is that right now I have an earache caused by a toothache and have to wait three weeks before it will be fixed...and what will I feel like then?


----------



## mbwilson111

DancingShaman said:


> Oh my look at that list!! It must be so fun to rotate.
> 
> What would be your favorite iem out of that list?
> 
> Cheers.



Whatever is in my ears at the time?   ....as long as I am enjoying the music.  That is all that counts.  I have loved music all my life.


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> Just because all of this gear resides in the same house does not mean I have heard all of his or he mine   I don't even want to listen to all of his!  My poor ears!
> 
> To be honest,  I am overwhelmed having so many choices.  I have quite a few things, especially the iems that have had very little head time.  Not quite sure how it happened....
> 
> The worst part is that right now I have an earache caused by a toothache and have to wait three weeks before it will be fixed...and what will I feel like then?



Well have you heard all of your own?


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> The worst part is that right now I have an earache caused by a toothache and have to wait three weeks before it will be fixed...and what will I feel like then?



Hope you have a speedy recovery. Nightmare!


----------



## waynes world (Mar 7, 2018)

I got the Radsone Earstudio ES100 bluetooth receiver yesterday. It's insane. Listening to 600ohm Sextetts and 300ohm Zen 1's out of it (in BT atpx), and they both sounds great. What a great gizmo. Go ahead cell phone companies - rip the headphone jacks out of your phones - I just don't care anymore   And DAPS? What's a DAP?


----------



## mbwilson111

groucho69 said:


> Well have you heard all of your own?



some of the cheaper iems for only a few minutes.... but...yes...


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> The worst part is that right now I have an earache caused by a toothache and have to wait three weeks before it will be fixed...and what will I feel like then?



There's nothing worse than an earache... except for a toothache - ouch! Sorry that you have to wait 3 weeks!


----------



## gazzington

I've had a tooth abcyss a couple of times. Absolutely excruciating


----------



## Narayan23

gazzington said:


> I've had a tooth abcyss a couple of times. Absolutely excruciating



That´s bad although not as bad as a renal colic and both of those are child´s play compared to the pain of Real Madrid losing 2 - 6 to Barcelona at the Bernabeu stadium, I had to wear a fake beard, cap and sunglasses for weeks to avoid the mockery of Barcelona supporting friends and acquaintances.


----------



## hwaseul

Hey, guys! New here and hoping someone can help me out with picking a new pair of earbuds. I'd like to get something better than my regular skullcandies. 
My price range is 50~ US dollars. 
Looking for ; 
>Buds that slip inside the ears. 
>Durability. They need to survive being tossed in my bag, stuffed into my pocket, etc. IF they come with a case though, I'll definitely use it. 
>Crisp, clear sound.  
Thanks in advance!


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> Hope you have a speedy recovery. Nightmare!



Thanks....I have a true extreme phobia...will have to be put under...so if I do not return...



waynes world said:


> There's nothing worse than an earache... except for a toothache - ouch! Sorry that you have to wait 3 weeks!



I had an appointment for a week ago but then the snow came.. beast from the east... and the UK panicked.  Only 6 inches in our area on that day but no buses, no trains, and our ride bailed on us (we don't have a car).  In Michigan and especially around Chicago one time, I have driven in true blizzards.  People  were even panic buying groceries.  I just have a hard time relating to this having grown up in Upstate NY and spending much of my adult life in Michigan,  I did encounter it once before in Texas when an inch of snow closed the school...



gazzington said:


> I've had a tooth abcyss a couple of times. Absolutely excruciating



Yes it is. Makes it difficult or impossible to use iems, buds or even headphones.  Right now the best thing for me is either silence or my new little Koss KSC75 clipon...kind of a giant bud that sits lightly on the ear.


----------



## seanc6441

Narayan23 said:


> That´s bad although not as bad as a renal colic and both of those are child´s play compared to the pain of Real Madrid losing 2 - 6 to Barcelona at the Bernabeu stadium, I had to wear a fake beard, cap and sunglasses for weeks to avoid the mockery of Barcelona supporting friends and acquaintances.


Ouch... So did Countinho play? I’m still a little sore after the loss of our little magician (Liverpool Supporter)


----------



## chinmie

hwaseul said:


> Buds that slip inside the ears



Did you mean earbuds or IEMs?


----------



## noknok23

hwaseul said:


> Hey, guys! New here and hoping someone can help me out with picking a new pair of earbuds. I'd like to get something better than my regular skullcandies.
> My price range is 50~ US dollars.
> Looking for ;
> >Buds that slip inside the ears.
> ...


Wrong thread... Earbuds≠IEMs


----------



## hwaseul

chinmie said:


> Did you mean earbuds or IEMs?





noknok23 said:


> Wrong thread... Earbuds≠IEMs


my bad.
i meant things like these.





here, they're called in ear monitors though?


----------



## seanc6441

hwaseul said:


> my bad.
> i meant things like these.
> 
> 
> ...


Yes they are and there’s another thread for that kind. This thread is for classic earbuds, or ya know just ‘earbuds’.


----------



## liquidrats

seanc6441 said:


> Try over ear if possible. I’ve even added a thin ring of foam tape to get the best fit for SQ.
> 
> The soundstage completely opens up, its now the biggest of any earbud I own including the Rose Masya which previously had it beat of spaciousness.
> 
> ...


ah i get what you mean i think without anything covering it it sounds bit thin and removes the body out of it but let me give it a try..


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 7, 2018)

liquidrats said:


> ah i get what you mean i think without anything covering it it sounds bit thin and removes the body out of it but let me give it a try..




I found that with the back vents:

more open = more dynamic sound and more airy. The bass was a little less punchy but deeper, the highs had more light and airy quality and the mids were definitely more lush/full.

 But the fit in ear with regards to foams and extras is the most important aspect with these buds, these are definitely not ‘sounds good with any fit’ kind of buds. Infact if you don’t get the fit right they sound downright nasal and hollow-empty!

More seal in ear + more open back vents gives me the best SQ with these buds. I’m gonna try attach some memory wire to mine for the over ear fit so I can angle it slightly forward towards my ear canal because it always sounds the best that way but never stays like that unless I push it with my finger


----------



## liquidrats

seanc6441 said:


> I found that with the back vents:
> 
> more open = more dynamic sound and more airy. The bass was a little less punchy but deeper, the highs had more light and airy quality and the mids were definitely more lush/full.
> 
> ...


That's the reason why I got the earbud guides, I can't search for them at any of the audio stores here in Sg and found them in aliexpress, now i'm using without any foams feels bit weird cause too much "airness" i'll try with the donuts.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 7, 2018)

liquidrats said:


> That's the reason why I got the earbud guides, I can't search for them at any of the audio stores here in Sg and found them in aliexpress, now i'm using without any foams feels bit weird cause too much "airness" i'll try with the donuts.


Oh no definitely without foams I don’t like the sound. I’m using donuts (regular very transparent donuts, not heigi donuts). I made a few cut outs in the foam for the vents on the back... yes it was exceedingly finicky to cut right. Donuts sound the best if you use em over ear I’ve discovered, assuming you use some foams tape to get a great seal, atleast for my ears this was the case.


----------



## ClieOS

Finally placed an order on BK blue, I hope it won't dissapoint.


----------



## liquidrats

seanc6441 said:


> Oh no definitely without foams I don’t like the sound. I’m using donuts (regular very transparent donuts, not heigi donuts). I made a few cut outs in the foam for the vents on the back... yes it was exceedingly finicky to cut right. Donuts sound the best if you use em over ear I’ve discovered, assuming you use some foams tape to get a great seal, atleast for my ears this was the case.


ok i'm back with the foamies and i think my preferences is this...


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> I had an appointment for a week ago but then the snow came.. beast from the east... and the UK panicked.  Only 6 inches in our area on that day but no buses, no trains, and our ride bailed on us (we don't have a car).  In Michigan and especially around Chicago one time, I have driven in true blizzards.  People  were even panic buying groceries.  I just have a hard time relating to this having grown up in Upstate NY and spending much of my adult life in Michigan,  I did encounter it once before in Texas when an inch of snow closed the school...



Thanks - that was beautiful. Good thing there is no global warming! 



> Yes it is. Makes it difficult or impossible to use iems, buds or even headphones.  Right now the best thing for me is either silence or my new little Koss KSC75 clipon...kind of a giant bud that sits lightly on the ear.



You never know when those classic cheapo giant killer KSC75's might come in handy!


----------



## chaiyuta

//---earbuds news---//
*Lamia Earbud *from Thai DIY maker names "Muchjurat Luzifer" in facebook. The housing is made of pure silver. The texture is really glossy likes mirror. It is Pk-sized shell, moreover they are limited run. The first one will be shipped to Phillipines. Any type of plug can be discussed. Ask price & further info via his Facebook Messenger.


----------



## j4100

chaiyuta said:


> //---earbuds news---//
> *Lamia Earbud *from Thai DIY maker names "Muchjurat Luzifer" in facebook. The housing is made of pure silver. The texture is really glossy likes mirror. It is Pk-sized shell, moreover they are limited run. The first one will be shipped to Phillipines. Any type of plug can be discussed. Ask price & further info via his Facebook Messenger.



I have seen many of the photos on EA. These buds look great, but I haven't seen much discussion on sound signature.


----------



## chaiyuta

@j4100 : It has to wait customers make a review.


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> You never know when those classic cheapo giant killer KSC75's might come in handy!



Those giant buds have been a lifesaver!


----------



## AmericanEDC

So a little bit, just a little bit overwhelmed. 

How about a challenge: List of the first 5 earbuds someone should start their collection or education with under $100 total.   More than 5  or less is fine. Make the list your own!

Maybe it’s the if I could only take 5 to an island list. Or you can make it a true educational baseline list for a newbie. 

A small explanation of why each one. 
Maybe the list will have the greatest variety.  
Maybe it will have 1 at $50 and 3 at $15 forgoing a 5 count? 
I’m game for throwing some money at a small collection partly so I have a baseline of sound comparisons for people talking about more expensive options.  At this stage I don’t see myself spending a couple hundred dollars on earbuds.  The part they play in my collection is allowing me full transparency while surrounded by people and family.


----------



## ClieOS

mbwilson111 said:


> Those giant buds have been a lifesaver!



I can only agree after I put the KCS75 on a PortaPro headband.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 8, 2018)

liquidrats said:


> ok i'm back with the foamies and i think my preferences is this...


If you like the airy treble of no foams but want the bass impact of foams grab the cheapo aliexpress foams linked a in previous pages for $1. I decided to roll with those for a change from the donuts and they are not dissappointing. Donuts have smoother high´s and slighty more bass impact maybe... or not if you use the foam tape under it´s plenty bassy with both foams, but the thin foams bring out the vocals slighty and the high´s are more crisp and airy. Overall it´s a little more edgy and quicker decay but I'm liking it wearing overear. Such an expansive soundstage and clean separation and imaging.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 8, 2018)

AmericanEDC said:


> So a little bit, just a little bit overwhelmed.
> 
> How about a challenge: List of the first 5 earbuds someone should start their collection or education with under $100 total.   More than 5  or less is fine. Make the list your own!
> 
> ...


Auglamour RX1 $22
EMX(S)500 $14
Yincrow X6 $11
Moondrop Nameless $23
Seahf F150C $19

Pack of cheap thin foams on aliexpress $1
Pack of donut foams $1

Total = $91

Might change one for the $15 **** PT15, still deciding...

Some I own some I've heard great things about and they fit into the group as a whole. I'll post the explanations later


----------



## AmericanEDC (Mar 8, 2018)

Thanks seanc6441. Great fodder for researching. Do most people buy on Alibaba, Gearbest, Banggood, places like that? Chinese sellers?

I'm making a cart now on AliExpress.


----------



## vladstef

seanc6441 said:


> Auglamour RX1 $22
> EMX(S)500 $14
> Yincrow X6 $11
> Moondrop Nameless $23
> ...



Maybe swap PT15 instead of X6. Others on the list are amazing (didn't hear Nameless but it's already proven to be good).


----------



## haiku

My favourite rig with NEC Rahu silver golden naga earbuds by Muchjurat Luzifer. Stellar sound!


----------



## haiku

Also testing CAX Zoomfred at the moment!


----------



## AmericanEDC (Mar 8, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Auglamour RX1 $22 *ORDERED*
> EMX(S)500 $14 DIDN'T FIND ON ALIEXPRESS
> Yincrow X6 $11 *ORDERED*
> Moondrop Nameless $23 DIDN'T FIND ON ALIEXPRESS
> ...



Thanks! A few more on the way and my Monk Plus showing up today according to Amazon.

Maybe I'll order up the: **** PT15?
Was thinking of getting my own MMCX cable and purchasing just the buds for $8.67 on Aliexpress.


----------



## ctaxxxx

haiku said:


> Also testing CAX Zoomfred at the moment!



Red and Blue wire are on the same side? That's going to be confusing... Hopefully I'll get mine by next week.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 8, 2018)

AmericanEDC said:


> Thanks! A few more on the way and my Monk Plus showing up today according to Amazon.
> 
> Maybe I'll order up the: **** PT15?
> Was thinking of getting my own MMCX cable and purchasing just the buds for $8.67 on Aliexpress.



donut foams
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32683389893/32683389893.html

thin foams
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32790634729/32790634729.html

Moondrop Nameless
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32830971670/32830971670.html

EMXS500
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32841881186/32841881186.html

You move fast lol. Ordered already!

And yes you can get just the earbud without the cable if you like, make sure it’s the newer pt15 version with 4 holes on the back in the pictures.


----------



## AmericanEDC (Mar 8, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> donut foams
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32683389893/32683389893.html
> 
> thin foams
> ...



All purchased. Except pt15. I’ll wait on that one. Play with these 6?

I'd better put a spreadsheet together, I'll never remember all of these as at this rate. LOL!

Monk Plus literally just delivered. Opening right now......
In the ears right now....blows away the OEM Apple buds. Source is Apple iphone X. First impressions. Nicely driven by the iphone. Plenty of volume, not under powered with 64 ohm. 

No sibilance. Lots of upper bass, little sub bass. Wow, great mids with Karen Carpenter "Make Believe It's Your First Time". Her voice is a great barometer. Jim Croce "I Got a Name" sounds great, just the right low level performance. Listening to "Sultans of Swing" by Dire Straits right now. Very nice, very tight. On to Keb' Mo' "Don't Leave Me Here". Another deep voice that seems to shine with these. Off to some Pop. Okay, another few bars of Keb' Mo'.........

Katy Perry "Teenage Dream".....probably not the best music for these. Doesn't shine.
Onto "Roar"....better. Low bass synth rolling through the song as bass lines.....maybe too much. Not great for this pop. Hearing all sorts of cackling and popcorn. Moving on to Led Zeppelin "Immigrant Song". Great mids here slightly over powered though I think by the low end. "Going to California" very nice acoustic guitar and vocals. Some rap...Aesop Rock "Rings" maybe a little too much low end taking these to their limit?

Lenny Kravitz "Live".... "I Belong to You"....very nice.

Can't wait to compare these to others on their way....slowly from China.


----------



## seanc6441

AmericanEDC said:


> All purchased. Except pt15. I’ll wait on that one. Play with these 6?
> 
> I'd better put a spreadsheet together, I'll never remember all of these as at this rate. LOL!
> 
> ...


You’ll be in for a treat with those other buds then


----------



## HungryPanda

The Seahf 150 will blow your socks off ):


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> The Seahf 150 will blow your socks off ):



It certainly will!


----------



## Tdeprat

Thanks to this thread I have developed an earbud sickness.  I can't express how much I am enjoying the recommendations from this thread (although my wallet is not enjoying it as much).  I've gone a little overboard and will probably thin the herd once I figure out what my favorites are.  I blame this forum for the sudden attack on my finances.


----------



## mbwilson111

Tdeprat said:


> Thanks to this thread I have developed an earbud sickness.  I can't express how much I am enjoying the recommendations from this thread (although my wallet is not enjoying it as much).  I've gone a little overboard and will probably thin the herd once I figure out what my favorites are.  I blame this forum for the sudden attack on my finances.



Which buds have you bought?


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Which buds have you bought?


my thoughts exactly, and what’s your favourites?


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> my thoughts exactly, and what’s your favourites?



I have gotten too much too fast to answer that question.   Give me a few months   I do not dislike any of the ones on my list...

I have a long list of iems as well and some great headphones  Sometimes I might not listen to buds for a couple of weeks and then suddenly that is all I want to listen to... for a few days anyway.  I will never be the resident authority here on what to buy


----------



## Tdeprat (Mar 8, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Which buds have you bought?





seanc6441 said:


> my thoughts exactly, and what’s your favourites?



So I am ashamed to admit I have in a very short period of time purchased the following:
- Music Maker Tomahawk
- Music Maker Ting
- Zen 2.0
- Monk +
- BS1
- Campfred 2
- Shozy Cygnus
- Rose Masya

I have a few of them with me at work right now actually...  I'll send a picture.  And the other night I was playing around with the Zen 2.0's and my new PHA-1A.


----------



## Tdeprat

I am still not good at the pictures thing but about my favorites, I haven't decided.  I know that the Tomahawks were beautifully bright at first and so clear but then they hurt my ears as I guess I found the highs too sibilant after some time for actual use.  The Tings were much better as the highs are bright but they don't hurt my ears.  I like the Shozy Cygnus as they are comfortable but I didn't think the sound was better than the Tings to my untrained ears.  The Penon BS1's are great and I really like those as well as the Rose Masya but I haven't really put enough hours on them to come to a decision on which I like better. The Campfred 2.0's are in the same boat.  I do find that I prefer the shape of the Tings, BS1's and the Masya to the traditional shape of the earbuds.  Probably because I prefer to use them over hear as I find that keeps them in place better for me.  I'll hopefully update everyone on my ranking at a later time.  :-D


----------



## mbwilson111

Tdeprat said:


> So I am ashamed to admit I have in a very short period of time purchased the following:
> - Music Maker Tomahawk
> - Music Maker Ting
> - Zen 2.0
> ...



Very impressive collection and nice photos!  Have fun and enjoy the music!


----------



## Saoshyant

I'd suggest slowing down a bit and getting to know your earbuds.  A big collection can be nice, but so many in such a short period can make it a little more difficult to decide what you like.


----------



## Tdeprat (Mar 8, 2018)

Saoshyant said:


> I'd suggest slowing down a bit and getting to know your earbuds.  A big collection can be nice, but so many in such a short period can make it a little more difficult to decide what you like.


Yeah, I completely agree with you.  I just couldn't control myself because I was so excited that I could listen to music and still listen to my surroundings. For years I didn't understand why it seemed that everyone only wanted isolation at all times, so finding good quality earbuds was like a life changing event.  Anyway, I seem to have myself together now.  I really do want to take some time with each one to actually appreciate them and get to know them.

Edit: I just want to be clear that I still like isolation, but not all the time.


----------



## Saoshyant

Of the ones you've bought, my favorite is the CampFred 2.  I'd suggest saving it for last and working your way up the chain just in case you're someone that has a difficult time listening to a less proficient earbud once you've gotten used to something nice.  If you aren't, then just go nuts and enjoy yourself.


----------



## vladstef

Earbud world is currently so amazing. There are a bunch of IEMs that I dislike and only some that I like, but it's soooo hard to dislike even the cheapest of modern earbuds. There are some crazy good buds <20$ that imho put all other form factors to shame in terms of value. Even when you technically get a better sound with something many times the price of value buds, there is still something special about buds that keeps me reaching for them all of the time. 

Some small part of me doesn't want to experience more expensive earbuds because I believe that some of the enjoyment of listening to buds comes from the fact that big sound is coming out of a small and cheap thing that defies the laws of physics. Obviously, resistance is futile in this hobby and some of the ~100$ buds are becoming more and more irresistible by the day.


----------



## Tdeprat

Saoshyant said:


> Of the ones you've bought, my favorite is the CampFred 2.  I'd suggest saving it for last and working your way up the chain just in case you're someone that has a difficult time listening to a less proficient earbud once you've gotten used to something nice.  If you aren't, then just go nuts and enjoy yourself.



Will do!  The CampFred 2's were the last ones I got too.


----------



## chinmie

haiku said:


> Also testing CAX Zoomfred at the moment!



that cable color scheme looks like Mogami microphone cable. how's your take on the Zoomfred's sound?


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 8, 2018)

Tdeprat said:


> I am still not good at the pictures thing but about my favorites, I haven't decided.  I know that the Tomahawks were beautifully bright at first and so clear but then they hurt my ears as I guess I found the highs too sibilant after some time for actual use.  The Tings were much better as the highs are bright but they don't hurt my ears.  I like the Shozy Cygnus as they are comfortable but I didn't think the sound was better than the Tings to my untrained ears.  The Penon BS1's are great and I really like those as well as the Rose Masya but I haven't really put enough hours on them to come to a decision on which I like better. The Campfred 2.0's are in the same boat.  I do find that I prefer the shape of the Tings, BS1's and the Masya to the traditional shape of the earbuds.  Probably because I prefer to use them over hear as I find that keeps them in place better for me.  I'll hopefully update everyone on my ranking at a later time.  :-D


Ok a few things cone to mind, you probably have figured this out but thicker foams reduce treble/clarity and thinner foams allow more through. Bass is usually strongest with the better seal

not always thicker or thinner just depends on the fit is in ear mostly although usually thicker foam=better seal=more bass

So by that logic if you apply super thin foams to the buds that need more treble/clarity they will sound better. The treble heavy buds may perform best with thick foams.

As for full vs donuts, For me the reason to pick one or the other is down to how smooth/full you want the lower mids. If you find an earbud overly thick and mid bass is bloated, try donuts. If you find an earbud a little weak in the mids, too thin or too grainy, add full foams.

A step further would be to buy some foam tape (I’m using badminton grip which is ideal for this use) and you can add a slight lip to the shell so it fits more snug in your ear and boosts the sound quality in that way.

Buds like the BS1, Tomahawk and Masya may perform best overear, it makes the sound airy but less piercing in the treble imo.

The shozy cygnus I use with the absolute thinnest foams in donut form, it needs all the help it can get with clarity but you’ll be happy you have it for its comfort, for relaxing listening (good sleeping buds) and for stuff like audiobooks etc because the have nicely forward vocals with a relaxing smooth full sound.

Obviously I’m not advocating you spend much more after that haul but you may want to pick up these $1 thin foams and $1 donut foams for all those buds (stock full foams are always plentiful)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32790634729/32790634729.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32683389893/32683389893.html

You’re pretty much set for a long time with that collection tbh! Enjoy them all


----------



## AmericanEDC (Mar 8, 2018)

Is this 3 button version of the Monk Plus an inline microphone for iOS? I realize that a lot of purists don't like inline mics. But my kids go through headphones like you cannot imagine. Not sure if this link will work but 2 of these "color" options are with inline mics. Also I'm enjoying my Monk Plus since I got them this afternoon and wouldn't mind being able to answer a call. It has already happened that a call came in while listening with phone in pocket. Thanks all.

Inline mic option?
It's the 5th color option at $13.01


----------



## mbwilson111 (Mar 8, 2018)

AmericanEDC said:


> Is this 3 button version of the Monk Plus an inline microphone for iOS? I realize that a lot of purists don't like inline mics. But my kids go through headphones like you cannot imagine. Not sure if this link will work but 2 of these "color" options are with inline mics. Also I'm enjoying my Monk Plus since I got them this afternoon and wouldn't mind being able to answer a call. It has already happened that a call came in while listening with phone in pocket. Thanks all.
> 
> Inline mic option?
> It's the 5th color option at $13.01



If you just go to veclan.com it is the same seller but you can check out with Paypal.  That is how I got my Monk Lites.   Then you get points as well that are sometimes required for special products.  I got my Monk Plus like you did ... from Amazon.  Mine has no mic but that is what I would have chosen anyway.  Why would anyone let a call interrupt their music?  

I should add...if you use the veclan site you will see the mic options like this:

Mic Options
no mic
universal mic-1buttons
iOS mic-3buttons
Android mic-3buttons


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 8, 2018)

AmericanEDC said:


> Is this 3 button version of the Monk Plus an inline microphone for iOS? I realize that a lot of purists don't like inline mics. But my kids go through headphones like you cannot imagine. Not sure if this link will work but 2 of these "color" options are with inline mics. Also I'm enjoying my Monk Plus since I got them this afternoon and wouldn't mind being able to answer a call. It has already happened that a call came in while listening with phone in pocket. Thanks all.
> 
> Inline mic option?
> It's the 5th color option at $13.01


Auglamour RX1S has a 3 button inline mic that works on IOS, just a heads up.

It’s also extremely well built so will not break easily so the kids won’t be able to smash the metal shell too easily when they use it as a weapon 

Saying that, the monk plus is also well built for the price albeit with a plastic body.

Both have rubberised cables, the RX1S cable is a little thicker so probably will last longer. Also the 3.5mm jack is stronger on the rx1s.


----------



## jogawag (Mar 8, 2018)

Tdeprat said:


> I am still not good at the pictures thing but about my favorites, I haven't decided.  I know that the Tomahawks were beautifully bright at first and so clear but then they hurt my ears as I guess I found the highs too sibilant after some time for actual use.  The Tings were much better as the highs are bright but they don't hurt my ears.  I like the Shozy Cygnus as they are comfortable but I didn't think the sound was better than the Tings to my untrained ears.  The Penon BS1's are great and I really like those as well as the Rose Masya but I haven't really put enough hours on them to come to a decision on which I like better. The Campfred 2.0's are in the same boat.  I do find that I prefer the shape of the Tings, BS1's and the Masya to the traditional shape of the earbuds.  Probably because I prefer to use them over hear as I find that keeps them in place better for me.  I'll hopefully update everyone on my ranking at a later time.  :-D



I also bought $ 66 cheap Penon BS1 on a used site.
I tried various ear pads, but I found that the following transparent silicone pads fit as BS1's ear pads to make the diameter big.
http://aliexpress.com/item//32795511476.html

It makes the sound airy but less piercing in the treble imo.
This transparent silicone pads also fit Rose Masya, Mojito, Moondrop Liebsleid, MX985 etc, so I recommend you to purchase this pads more than you need now.

Edit:
This also fits Ting.


----------



## mochill

Tdeprat said:


> I am still not good at the pictures thing but about my favorites, I haven't decided.  I know that the Tomahawks were beautifully bright at first and so clear but then they hurt my ears as I guess I found the highs too sibilant after some time for actual use.  The Tings were much better as the highs are bright but they don't hurt my ears.  I like the Shozy Cygnus as they are comfortable but I didn't think the sound was better than the Tings to my untrained ears.  The Penon BS1's are great and I really like those as well as the Rose Masya but I haven't really put enough hours on them to come to a decision on which I like better. The Campfred 2.0's are in the same boat.  I do find that I prefer the shape of the Tings, BS1's and the Masya to the traditional shape of the earbuds.  Probably because I prefer to use them over hear as I find that keeps them in place better for me.  I'll hopefully update everyone on my ranking at a later time.  :-D


Keep cygnus and campfred2


----------



## Tdeprat

seanc6441 said:


> Ok a few things cone to mind, you probably have figured this out but thicker foams reduce treble/clarity and thinner foams allow more through. Bass is usually strongest with the better seal
> 
> not always thicker or thinner just depends on the fit is in ear mostly although usually thicker foam=better seal=more bass
> 
> ...





jogawag said:


> I also bought $ 66 cheap Penon BS1 on a used site.
> I tried various ear pads, but I found that the following transparent silicone pads fit as BS1's ear pads to make the diameter big.
> http://aliexpress.com/item//32795511476.html
> 
> ...



Thanks!  Done, done and done.

I am really looking forward to getting the silicone pads. I had no idea this even existed until just now.

Thank you both. Seriously.


----------



## liquidrats

@seanc6441 I took your recommendation and cut off the foams to allow the back port to "breath" on the BS1 Official. All owners should do it. Became bit more brighter... and mid treble is more forward.


----------



## iJay

Which cable is best with the PT15? There are several choices so just wondered what everyone was using. Also, is anyone running them balanced? I may start heading that way shortly, just for something to do!
Thanks!


----------



## phower

iJay said:


> Which cable is best with the PT15? There are several choices so just wondered what everyone was using. Also, is anyone running them balanced? I may start heading that way shortly, just for something to do!
> Thanks!


 I have 3 different cables for the **** PT15. I don't find any difference in sound quality.


----------



## haiku

chinmie said:


> that cable color scheme looks like Mogami microphone cable. how's your take on the Zoomfred's sound?



After 50hrs burn in Zoomfred is finally opening up. Sweet analog treble, clear and addictive mids, tight, fast bass. I enjoy it !


----------



## jrazmar

Hi fellow head-fiers, I will be travelling to Malaysia next week. Anyone here who has some earbuds to share and is kind to meet with me around Johor area. I'm most interested with the BS1, Shozy BK, the Campfreds, Masya, Liebelisleid (wishful) and the like. I will be bringing my phones and DAPs with me if anyone is interested. A PM is much appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## iJay

phower said:


> I have 3 different cables for the **** PT15. I don't find any difference in sound quality.



Thank you!


----------



## seanc6441

phower said:


> I have 3 different cables for the **** PT15. I don't find any difference in sound quality.


What is the composition of each cable? (copper/silver/gold...steel!?) and any other info like name, brand, price etc.

Not to doubt your opinion but it would help to know the info so as to be assured of the cables in question.


----------



## jant71 (Mar 9, 2018)

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ug-400ohms-Bass-HIFI/1922340_32857319274.html
Features: graphene diaphragm, 400Ω, 112dB, detachable cable, metal sound cavity


----------



## Saoshyant

jant71 said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ug-400ohms-Bass-HIFI/1922340_32857319274.html
> Features: graphene diaphragm, 400Ω, 112dB, detachable cable, metal sound cavity



It's a little tempting, and I like the look of the cable.


----------



## Greutel (Mar 9, 2018)

Saoshyant said:


> Using Dell Venue 11 Pro, volume and mic work using the MS16.  I can try with my laptop later if you'd like, it's also a Dell.


It probably doesn't work on laptops or PCs, only windows tablets.


----------



## seanc6441

Greutel said:


> It probably doesn't work on laptops or PCs, only windows tablets.


Eh?


----------



## Greutel

Whoops, missed the quote so it was out of context.


----------



## gazzington

Where do people get the Poseidon earbud from? Can’t find them anywhere


----------



## waynes world

jant71 said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ug-400ohms-Bass-HIFI/1922340_32857319274.html
> Features: graphene diaphragm, 400Ω, 112dB, detachable cable, metal sound cavity



Mmmm graphene... 400ohm...

One small aesthetic niggle is the audacity of the red/blue right/left symbols. Still, for some reason I want those. Good/bad thing is that they are $95 so I can't do a "buy now" impulse click. I am however looking forward to reviews/impressions!


----------



## Saoshyant

@Danneq OT:  Found an Ath-EM7 for under 100, so will finally get to hear it.


----------



## Slater

Attn Headroom MS16 owners:

I know these aren't the best sounding buds out there, but they aren't the worst either.

But I did find a quick and easy way to make them much better than they were stock though.

The little round "grille" on the back of the earbud is just a peel and stick type of grille, like you find on IEM nozzles (such as the KZ ZS6). If you gently peel this up using a sewing needle or pair of tweezers, the full vent hole is exposed, and the sound improves *considerably*.

The grille is extremely restrictive, reducing the true of the 'area' of the vent hole down to a fraction of the actual hole. I even had (2) totally different grilles on mine (with different size and pattern of holes), causing a minor difference in sound between the R and L side!

Once the grilles are removed, you can easily hear the effect by gently covering the vent holes with your fingers while wearing them. It will become imediately apparent that the drivers need a lot of venting to breathe properly, and the more they are restricted, the worse the sound quality.

Of course wearing the MS16 sideways improves the sound even more.

The mod is totally reversible - the grille piece just peels and sticks like a sticker. I saved mine on a small piece of wax paper in case I ever want to replace them down the road.

Heck, since there was such a huge improvement in sound by exposing the hole, I plan on drilling the hole larger to see if any additional gains can be made.

Finally, for those that want to wear them normally (ie flat) instead of sideways, I have found that these work very well (after trying a few different designs). Note that you can't use any foam covers when using the silicone wings: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...Earplugs-For-In-ear-earphone/32810617185.html


----------



## Saoshyant

Might be worth trying as I found them to be a little lackluster.


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Mmmm graphene... 400ohm...
> 
> One small aesthetic niggle is the audacity of the red/blue right/left symbols. Still, for some reason I want those. Good/bad thing is that they are $95 so I can't do a "buy now" impulse click. I am however looking forward to reviews/impressions!



that red and blue ring combined with the black color is what got me interested


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> that red and blue ring combined with the black color is what got me interested



Ok, I like it now 

Seriously, for some reason I really do like the rings now lol


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Ok, I like it now
> 
> Seriously, for some reason I really do like the rings now lol



It's got that Portal (game) or Tron sci-fi vibe to it


----------



## chaiyuta

haiku said:


> My favourite rig with NEC Rahu silver golden naga earbuds by Muchjurat Luzifer. Stellar sound!



Regarding to two 3.5mm. mini-mini cables, are they Brimar Omni King? ,and why do you have to use 2 cables? In my understanding, 'Line-out' from DAP to 'Line-in' of AMP then 'Headphone-out' to earbuds would be enough.


----------



## haiku

chaiyuta said:


> Regarding to two 3.5mm. mini-mini cables, are they Brimar Omni King? ,and why do you have to use 2 cables? In my understanding, 'Line-out' from DAP to 'Line-in' of AMP then 'Headphone-out' to earbuds would be enough.



The balanced cable is the Brimar Grand Master 8 braid and the mini is the Omni King 16 braid. AK 380 & SP1000 as well as Mass Kobo are designed to sound best in so called "true balanced" configuration, which means you´re using a mini cable as reference ground. The difference in sound quality is clearly better.


----------



## chaiyuta

@haiku : Thanks, it is nice know.


----------



## haiku

chaiyuta said:


> @haiku : Thanks, it is nice know.



You´re welcome, my friend!


----------



## RuFrost

https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/Newe...8.1000016/B.1.1ecc64d4QAqYmN&isOrigTitle=true
did anybody heard it?


----------



## golov17

RuFrost said:


> https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/Newest-K-s-Earphone-Black-Ling-Brass-Cavirt-Metal-Earbud-HIFI-Fever-DJ-Bass-Earphone-14/32845876247.html?spm=a2g0v.10010108.1000016/B.1.1ecc64d4QAqYmN&isOrigTitle=true
> did anybody heard it?


 awesome


----------



## stocamadas

ClieOS said:


> Finally placed an order on BK blue, I hope it won't dissapoint.


I am waiting for your review this.


----------



## doggiemom

haiku said:


> After 50hrs burn in Zoomfred is finally opening up. Sweet analog treble, clear and addictive mids, tight, fast bass. I enjoy it !


Mine have shipped, so I'm waiting (impatiently) for them to arrive.  Herry says 150 hours min burn in for these!


----------



## damex

Which high imperdance totl earbuds did i miss? Is there something else worth owning?

Owning that high imperdance earbuds at the moment:
VE Zen Omega (ZOE)
VE Zen Lite
VE Asura White
Ty HI-Z HP-650
K's 600
K's Samsara
Seahf AWK-F650S

+ ordered that new toneking 400ohm earbuds

 Thank you.


----------



## RuFrost

damex said:


> Which high imperdance totl earbuds did i miss? Is there something else worth owning?
> 
> Owning that high imperdance earbuds at the moment:
> VE Zen Omega (ZOE)
> ...


PS100-500,600,600s


----------



## damex (Mar 10, 2018)

RuFrost said:


> PS100-500,600,600s


I find just ps100-600 and its upgraded versions. Nicest version with black braided cable is 189$... oh well. I guess i am going to get it.

Is there any other earbud to get?

I would consider that >100ohm is high imperdance


----------



## chaiyuta

@damex : I am not a fan of ty hi-z, but I know that TY HI-Z released the highest impedance earbuds in the current market called "TY HI-Z800" which is 800-Ohm earbuds. The description said this is still a prototype product. However once it becomes the official version, the price will grow up.


----------



## jogawag (Mar 22, 2018)

liquidrats said:


> @seanc6441 I took your recommendation and cut off the foams to allow the back port to "breath" on the BS1 Official. All owners should do it. Became bit more brighter... and mid treble is more forward.



If the transparent silicone pad is attached to Penon BS1, the back port of BS1 will be blocked.
In order to avoid this, it would be good to cut out the hole from the transparent silicon pad to allow the back port to breath.
But I attached the Silicone Ring (SENNHEISER 538215) first and mounted the transparent silicon pad on it.
As aresult BS1 's diameter becomes larger (almost same diameter as MX500), so the backport is appearing naturally.
As its effect, the sound quality became brighter and the bass sounded stronger.
I post this as a reference.

http://aliexpress.com/item//32795511476.html


----------



## XP_98

Hello
Could anyone try these FENGRU https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/Nouv...teurs-HiFi-basse-couteurs-DJ/32847567639.html ?
It's interesting to be able to use a MMCX cable your already have (if you have one), but I didn't find anything about the quality and sound of these earbuds...

Didn't find much about the FENGRU brand in general... Who knows it ?


----------



## chinmie

XP_98 said:


> Hello
> Could anyone try these FENGRU https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/Nouv...teurs-HiFi-basse-couteurs-DJ/32847567639.html ?
> It's interesting to be able to use a MMCX cable your already have (if you have one), but I didn't find anything about the quality and sound of these earbuds...
> 
> Didn't find much about the FENGRU brand in general... Who knows it ?



That is interesting. Fengru brand is what started the whole EMX500 craze the first time


----------



## XP_98

chinmie said:


> That is interesting. Fengru brand is what started the whole EMX500 craze the first time


And how was the brand FENGRU rated ?


----------



## chinmie

I don't know about their other product. The emx500 is up there with the vido and monk in the budget hall of fame, though I don't know if the recent ones are still the fengru's


----------



## haiku

doggiemom said:


> Mine have shipped, so I'm waiting (impatiently) for them to arrive.  Herry says 150 hours min burn in for these!



Mine started to become listenable @120hrs.


----------



## vladstef (Mar 11, 2018)

XP_98 said:


> And how was the brand FENGRU rated ?



They have a million of different models of buds and IEMs. Their EMX500 is one of the best budget bud, there are some impressions about their HYCK100 which is a beautiful mid-tier earbud with respectable sound. Most of their products don't really reach head-fi, not many people are buying them, maybe because this brand is still almost fully unknown.
There are some impressions about their hybrid IEMs which are also very positive. Overall, outside of rattling issue with EMX500, there is nothing bad to say about Fengru.


----------



## fairx

jrazmar said:


> Hi fellow head-fiers, I will be travelling to Malaysia next week. Anyone here who has some earbuds to share and is kind to meet with me around Johor area. I'm most interested with the BS1, Shozy BK, the Campfreds, Masya, Liebelisleid (wishful) and the like. I will be bringing my phones and DAPs with me if anyone is interested. A PM is much appreciated. Thanks!


Johor too south from my place. Haha can't make it. Maybe ask ClieOS?


----------



## doggiemom

haiku said:


> Mine started to become listenable @120hrs.


That is worrying.  The CampFred 2s definitely opened up with use, but they didn't sound _bad_ out of the box......  just not their best.  Are the ZoomFreds really unlistenable?  I won't like that, as I am not really a burn in type of gal....... I just listen and either burn in is real, or they do or don't grow on me.


----------



## haiku

doggiemom said:


> That is worrying.  The CampFred 2s definitely opened up with use, but they didn't sound _bad_ out of the box......  just not their best.  Are the ZoomFreds really unlistenable?  I won't like that, as I am not really a burn in type of gal....... I just listen and either burn in is real, or they do or don't grow on me.



I can only tell you my experience. Yes, to me they were unlistenable right out of the box. Too harsh and bright. Now @130hrs, the harshness is almost gone, but they´re bright, even with my Sp1000 Copper. They´re bright, open and have clear mids, with tight and fast bass. If you don´t like this sound sig, you better look elsewhere.....


----------



## mbwilson111

doggiemom said:


> That is worrying.  The CampFred 2s definitely opened up with use, but they didn't sound _bad_ out of the box......  just not their best.  Are the ZoomFreds really unlistenable?  I won't like that, as I am not really a burn in type of gal....... I just listen and either burn in is real, or they do or don't grow on me.



Hard to believe that something would change from unlistenable to awesome.  I do the burn in  to maintain credibility in certain threads   Just finished putting over 200 hours on my IT01 ibasso IEMs as demanded!  No idea what if anything changed.


----------



## Ceteru

I had an awesome moment earlier this morning that reminded me why earbuds can be so awesome despite (as well as because of) their lack of isolation.

It was a rainy morning where I am, and I was lying in bed using my new Fiio X5iii -> Hi-Z HP-650 (which reminds me, I need to update my sig) to listen to a wonderful new track I discovered:



In this track, there is some sort of instrument that plays constantly in the right channel (if I was to relate it to soundstage, it sounded like it was to the right and behind me). The instrument reminds me of a cowbell (played in a 'muted' way so that it doesn't resound), but I'm not certain if that's what it is. This is instrument #1.

In the left channel, on the opposite beat of the cowbell, there's a tambourine being played. Soundstage-wise, it sounds like it is to the left and back, perhaps opposite to the bell directionally. This is instrument #2.

As the track goes on, despite the singer's marvelous voice and the beautiful strings and piano that swell from time to time, in my 'buds at least, I can always keep track of those two instruments whenever they are played. In fact, I was doing something of a listening exercise and trying to focus on different instruments for long periods of time (gotta exercise that active listening!)

At a certain point, I became aware of a third instrument that was being played that sounded like it was being played "between my ears", a bit back, and to the right (closer to the bell than to the tambourine). For the life of me I couldn't figure out what it was, just that it sounded like a solid "tap" that, although it was being played to its own rhythm, did a great job of offsetting the other instruments. I started pulling that into my active focus and keeping track of it as instrument #3 along with instruments #1 and #2.

Imagine my shock when, after the song ended and I found I was still hearing instrument #3 playing loud and clear, I realized that instrument #3 was nothing more than a single raindrop continuously falling from the gutter edge outside and above my window onto a brick below. A simple sound, but it sounded right at home in the song.
Even though I love full-sized headphones, and I have some IEMs on the way, there are some things they just can't do as well. Sometimes letting noise in is exactly what is wanted/needed.


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> Hard to believe that something would change from unlistenable to awesome.  I do the burn in  to maintain credibility in certain threads   Just finished putting over 200 hours on my IT01 ibasso IEMs as demanded!  No idea what if anything changed.



Not many does  that, but some instances (like the TY HI-Z 32, and my late Cayin N3) turns for the better after a couple of hours play.


----------



## chinmie

Ceteru said:


> I had an awesome moment earlier this morning that reminded me why earbuds can be so awesome despite (as well as because of) their lack of isolation.
> 
> It was a rainy morning where I am, and I was lying in bed using my new Fiio X5iii -> Hi-Z HP-650 (which reminds me, I need to update my sig) to listen to a wonderful new track I discovered:
> 
> ...




I really can relate to that. I often listen to some new songs and find a sound that is interesting,, only to find that it's my son humming/singing or playing random stuff from his 3DS or YouTube


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 11, 2018)

Hey does anyone still have a new packet of original VE ex pack foams? The one with the  original thin foams (without the black/white variants, only red and blue).

I’d really like to have another pack of those. PM me if you have one you’re willing sell. Thanks.


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> and my late Cayin N3



I am using my Cayin N3 right now.   "late" ? did yours die?  Not using buds at the moment (KSC75 with headband mod) but earlier I was using the N3 with the Qian 69.  Someone said something this week about it having good bass.  I agree.  I had not really used them much before.  They arrived along with about 5 other buds all at once a few months ago.  Now, rather than buy anything else, I want to enjoy the ones I have.  The Qian is comfortable for me as well as sounding good.


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> I am using my Cayin N3 right now.   "late" ? did yours die?  Not using buds at the moment (KSC75 with headband mod) but earlier I was using the N3 with the Qian 69.  Someone said something this week about it having good bass.  I agree.  I had not really used them much before.  They arrived along with about 5 other buds all at once a few months ago.  Now, rather than buy anything else, I want to enjoy the ones I have.  The Qian is comfortable for me as well as sounding good.



Nope, i sold it after i got the Radsone Earstudio ES100. for my need,  between the ES100 and my Ipod Classic, having the N3 is redundant


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> Nope, i sold it after i got the Radsone Earstudio ES100. for my need,  between the ES100 and my Ipod Classic, having the N3 is redundant


Ipod classic has bluetooth?

ahh nvm, you use it with your S7/tab.


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> Hard to believe that something would change from unlistenable to awesome.  *I do the burn in  to maintain credibility in certain threads*   Just finished putting over 200 hours on my IT01 ibasso IEMs as demanded!  No idea what if anything changed.



Lol to the bolded statement - good one! I generally think that some - but not all - stuff benefits from burn in. The Nighthawks, even though they sounded wonderful when I got them, went to a new level of awesomesauce after quite a few more hours.



mbwilson111 said:


> I am using my Cayin N3 right now.   "late" ? did yours die?  *Not using buds at the moment (KSC75 with headband mod) *but earlier I was using the N3 with the Qian 69.  Someone said something this week about it having good bass.  I agree.  I had not really used them much before.  They arrived along with about 5 other buds all at once a few months ago.  Now, rather than buy anything else, I want to enjoy the ones I have.  The Qian is comfortable for me as well as sounding good.



You got the headband on the ksc75's, and I presume nothing got broken. Good work! Is the headband working as advertised for you?


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> You got the headband on the ksc75's, and I presume nothing got broken. Good work! Is the headband working as advertised for you?



I had help when my husband came home tonight after a long weekend of work.  Still working on shaping the headband... shifts a bit.  The clips feel more secure.  Pros and cons.  Always.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Ipod classic has bluetooth?
> 
> ahh nvm, you use it with your S7/tab.



Yes it has


----------



## Ceteru

Just listened to a song I haven't listened to for close to a year using my new gear..



The clarity and musicality of this song now compared to the last time I listened to it is just amazing


----------



## doggiemom

mbwilson111 said:


> Hard to believe that something would change from unlistenable to awesome.  I do the burn in  to maintain credibility in certain threads   Just finished putting over 200 hours on my IT01 ibasso IEMs as demanded!  No idea what if anything changed.


You are too funny.    I really like the other Cypherus buds I have (Black and CampFred2), so I'm optimistic.  Fingers crossed!


----------



## damex

is there any impressions on this Yinman 600 ohm earbuds?
i see that 2.0 version is available on aliexpress right now. detachable mmcx cable is too tempting ;p


----------



## Narayan23

mbwilson111 said:


> I had help when my husband came home tonight after a long weekend of work.  Still working on shaping the headband... shifts a bit.  The clips feel more secure.  Pros and cons.  Always.



Those clips are the work of an evil mind who dislikes people, especially those that wear glasses, either that or it was Katerina Kamprani:

http://www.bbc.com/future/gallery/20171207-the-objects-designed-to-be-as-uncomfortable-as-possible


----------



## noknok23 (May 24, 2021)

I have the HifiBoy Dream since 2 days... not really sensitive; quite transparent, Its main focus are mid and treble. Very good treble, clear but not tiring. I'm a bit disappointed at first because the bass is here but very lean and on the back. will see on the long run with time and maybe burn in, but all my electronic music sounds too chill with this unfortunately. Theses earphones are VERY laid back. I think it's more relevant to compare them to the Asura 2.0/Blur than Zen/Samsara. female vocals are forwards and very clear. Upper treble has a peak that is a bit annoying...

EDIT: pass the 150hours burnin, sound changed considerably. The bass really opened up. Quite balanced now, the peaks are tamed even though there are still present. Its still very clear but on a warm end

EDIT: they sucks, tonality is wonky, metallic sounding and the cable becomes horribly stiff after a while.
The price on penon massively dropped from 90 to 40 usd and it's not without reason.


----------



## mbwilson111

Narayan23 said:


> or it was Katerina Kamprani:
> 
> http://www.bbc.com/future/gallery/20171207-the-objects-designed-to-be-as-uncomfortable-as-possible



Thanks for the link.  Love it!


----------



## thehypewan

Hey guys,

I've been extensively testing the Shozy Stardust versus the Shozy Cygnus.  I noticed while browsing this thread at work and an old conversation caught my attention:

Drivers used in the Cygnus and Docomo/NiceHCK DIY PK2 look to be the same, for much lower cost.  Now, I look a peek at the Stardust and Cygnus I have on hand and...behold they are the same driver.  So my question is, if it's the same driver and YuinPK-styled housing, shouldn't they sound the same [they don't, to me].  I wonder if anyone else can share some info about these drivers used between all three of these earbuds.


----------



## cocolinho

Cable can make a difference I guess


----------



## seanc6441

thehypewan said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I've been extensively testing the Shozy Stardust versus the Shozy Cygnus.  I noticed while browsing this thread at work and an old conversation caught my attention:
> 
> Drivers used in the Cygnus and Docomo/NiceHCK DIY PK2 look to be the same, for much lower cost.  Now, I look a peek at the Stardust and Cygnus I have on hand and...behold they are the same driver.  So my question is, if it's the same driver and YuinPK-styled housing, shouldn't they sound the same [they don't, to me].  I wonder if anyone else can share some info about these drivers used between all three of these earbuds.


They must have different internals because all three 100% sound different. Maybe the drivers look the same on the outside but have different material compositions.


----------



## thehypewan

cocolinho said:


> Cable can make a difference I guess



I'm going to be doing this test soon.  I purchased some CNR L-4E5C microphone cable with a few connectors coming in,  I want to make my own cables so I can test the cables, too.  But in foresight, I want to say that the cable wouldn't make that noticeable of a difference *braces himself in anticipation*


----------



## vladstef

thehypewan said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I've been extensively testing the Shozy Stardust versus the Shozy Cygnus.  I noticed while browsing this thread at work and an old conversation caught my attention:
> 
> Drivers used in the Cygnus and Docomo/NiceHCK DIY PK2 look to be the same, for much lower cost.  Now, I look a peek at the Stardust and Cygnus I have on hand and...behold they are the same driver.  So my question is, if it's the same driver and YuinPK-styled housing, shouldn't they sound the same [they don't, to me].  I wonder if anyone else can share some info about these drivers used between all three of these earbuds.



They look way too similar to not be the same: pcb, color of dots, white substance to hold coil wires, even the damping mesh looks the same. However, they might sound different due to the foam used on the vents on the back casing, or should I say 2 horizontal lines. This foam is probably denser/thicker on one of them.

This wouldn't be the first time that earbuds use same drivers but are tuned differently + have different cables. Tuning has a greater effect on earbud drivers than people suspect.


----------



## noknok23

Diomnes LV2 are TOTL 200usd DIY earbuds made from 5usd monk drivers.
Tuning matters!


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 12, 2018)

vladstef said:


> They look way too similar to not be the same: pcb, color of dots, white substance to hold coil wires, even the damping mesh looks the same. However, they might sound different due to the foam used on the vents on the back casing, or should I say 2 horizontal lines. This foam is probably denser/thicker on one of them.
> 
> This wouldn't be the first time that earbuds use same drivers but are tuned differently + have different cables. Tuning has a greater effect on earbud drivers than people suspect.



If this is the case, I’ll be amazed at the difference a cable/tuning foam can do. I know tuning plays an impact in the SQ but the bk is noticeably better in clarity and texture so if the cable is the difference I’ll be investing in quality cables in the future!

Another aspect may be driver quality/matching. If they are indeed identical material wise then maybe the drivers used in the bk are the best of the bunch and matched better than that of the cygnus.

I still cannot believe they are the same driver completely when the sound of the BK is an upgrade in every department.

The first rendition of the diy pk2 has dense tuning foam on the back vent whereas the later version had a thinner foam and 2 vents open. The sound changed but it was a subtle improvement. It was definitely not the same level of change as seen in the cygnus to the bk.


----------



## seanc6441

noknok23 said:


> Diomnes LV2 are TOTL 200usd DIY earbuds made from 5usd monk drivers.
> Tuning matters!


So the diy process doesn’t involve tinkering with the driver internals? It’s just tuning of the other aspects like shell/foam/cable?


----------



## vladstef (Mar 12, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> So the diy process doesn’t involve tinkering with the driver internals? It’s just tuning of the other aspects like shell/foam/cable?



Pretty much...
Only thing you could do is unwind the coil wires a bit, but I don't really think that would be a good idea.
Here is a funny fact: most earbud drivers from China cost almost the same, totl buds' drivers are not even a 1% of their cost.


----------



## mochill

seanc6441 said:


> If this is the case, I’ll be amazed at the difference a cable/tuning foam can do. I know tuning plays an impact in the SQ but the bk is noticeably better in clarity and texture so if the cable is the difference I’ll be investing in quality cables in the future!
> 
> Another aspect may be driver quality/matching. If they are indeed identical material wise then maybe the drivers used in the bk are the best of the bunch and matched better than that of the cygnus.
> 
> ...


They said the cable was the the big difference on the stardust  if I remember correctly


----------



## phower (Mar 12, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> What is the composition of each cable? (copper/silver/gold...steel!?) and any other info like name, brand, price etc.
> 
> Not to doubt your opinion but it would help to know the info so as to be assured of the cables in question.



Generic $10 ones.  I don't believe in cables atleast for earphones. I have measured the impedance of the cables and they are around 1 ohm. It might make a difference for loudspeakers that have 4 or 8 ohm impedance. Not for headphones/earphones  which require less than 10mW power. 

If I can think of something that might affect SQ, it might be that cheap cables with poor soldering might affect the frequency response.


----------



## seanc6441

vladstef said:


> Pretty much...
> Only thing you could do is unwind the coil wires a bit, but I don't really think that would be a good idea.
> Here is a funny fact: most earbud drivers from China cost almost the same, totl buds' drivers are not even a 1% of their cost.


When you hear of manufacturers intentionally ‘poorly’ tuning a driver used in a more expensive model so as to release a cheaper variant you have to wonder sometimes.

It’s cheaper to mass produce one driver than to produce two separate designs I guess.

My only suspicion here is that the cygnus was released before the BK. So they would’ve had to improve upon the cygnus tuning to create the bk, not the other way around.


----------



## seanc6441

mochill said:


> They said the cable was the the big difference on the stardust  if I remember correctly


If it’s purely a case of a better tuned and upgraded cable cygnus then Shozy are masters at tuning because the improvement is nothing short of phenomenal whilst retaining a similar house sound.


----------



## chinmie

damex said:


> is there any impressions on this Yinman 600 ohm earbuds?
> i see that 2.0 version is available on aliexpress right now. detachable mmcx cable is too tempting ;p



one of the best sounding high impedance earbuds that I've heard. they have a warm signature, but quite clear and extend well in bass and treble

be careful about the build though because there are reports of the housing cracks open.. definitely need a gentle hands. another alternative would be the yinman 500 with 100 ohm impedance adapter..sounded similar


----------



## chinmie

noknok23 said:


> Diomnes LV2 are TOTL 200usd DIY earbuds made from 5usd monk drivers.
> Tuning matters!



there's also rumors about Camfred 1 using a cheap Advance brand earbuds (only sold in my country), can't confirm them myself, but it's a really popular rumor. so i agree with you tuning matters



seanc6441 said:


> If this is the case, I’ll be amazed at the difference a cable/tuning foam can do. I know tuning plays an impact in the SQ but the bk is noticeably better in clarity and texture so if the cable is the difference I’ll be investing in quality cables in the future!
> 
> Another aspect may be driver quality/matching. If they are indeed identical material wise then maybe the drivers used in the bk are the best of the bunch and matched better than that of the cygnus.
> 
> I still cannot believe they are the same driver completely when the sound of the BK is an upgrade in every department.





vladstef said:


> Pretty much...
> Only thing you could do is unwind the coil wires a bit, but I don't really think that would be a good idea.
> Here is a funny fact: most earbud drivers from China cost almost the same, totl buds' drivers are not even a 1% of their cost.



the most common thing in my country is modders selling recabled Vidos, Kubes, Sharp MDs. some just purely cable change, and some modders tune them also to their taste. the improvements in the sound is remarkable. 

i don't really mind if modders upped their price even if the cost of the materials are cheap, because they obviously spend their time doing research.

i do hope modders also research in using different shape of shell or different shell material. really waiting for someone to come up with custom molding for earbuds maybe..that would eliminate the need for foams altogether


----------



## mochill

seanc6441 said:


> If it’s purely a case of a better tuned and upgraded cable cygnus then Shozy are masters at tuning because the improvement is nothing short of phenomenal whilst retaining a similar house sound.


Yes they are


----------



## WC Annihilus

My BS1's came in today.  Sound is great, love the clarity.  There is one annoyance though.  When the cable moves a certain way, I hear some small crackling/popping sounds.  I'm not sure if this is the sign of a potential defect or that's just the way it is.


----------



## haiku

This is what I´ve got from Herry about the burn in time for the Zoomfred: Quote "I've said 150 hours is minimum burn in time.... Based on the cryogenic specification they will required over than 300 hours to stabilize. Min 150 is my experience on the cryogenic cable for headphone."  So be prepared all you, who ordered them.


----------



## noknok23

haiku said:


> This is what I´ve got from Herry about the burn in time for the Zoomfred: Quote "I've said 150 hours is minimum burn in time.... Based on the cryogenic specification they will required over than 300 hours to stabilize. Min 150 is my experience on the cryogenic cable for headphone."  So be prepared all you, who ordered them.


If you have an android phone use 1moreAssistant app. Burn in is 5x faster


----------



## redkingjoe

seanc6441 said:


> When you hear of manufacturers intentionally ‘poorly’ tuning a driver used in a more expensive model so as to release a cheaper variant you have to wonder sometimes.
> 
> It’s cheaper to mass produce one driver than to produce two separate designs I guess.
> 
> My only suspicion here is that the cygnus was released before the BK. So they would’ve had to improve upon the cygnus tuning to create the bk, not the other way around.



Cygnus—> BK—> BK blue


----------



## redkingjoe

seanc6441 said:


> If this is the case, I’ll be amazed at the difference a cable/tuning foam can do. I know tuning plays an impact in the SQ but the bk is noticeably better in clarity and texture so if the cable is the difference I’ll be investing in quality cables in the future.



Cable makes huge difference in SQ of earbuds! That’s a well known fact!

Starting from 1982, Sony made a lot of earbuds using different combination of diaphragm, cable, housing, etc.
Eg Mdr e222, 232, 242, 252, 262, 272, 282,
Mdr e 414...484, 

With all top Sony models employing class 1 lc-ofc! 

The Shozy BK uses high purity occ, the BK blue uses occ silver! The cable itself is the most expensive component of the whole earbud. If you go to eBay to check out Shozy cable, you know the price!


----------



## seanc6441

WC Annihilus said:


> My BS1's came in today.  Sound is great, love the clarity.  There is one annoyance though.  When the cable moves a certain way, I hear some small crackling/popping sounds.  I'm not sure if this is the sign of a potential defect or that's just the way it is.



There should be no crackling or popping. Make sure the audio jack is pushed in fully and looks in perfect condition. Also try a different song to confirm the crackling/popping.


----------



## ClieOS

redkingjoe said:


> Cygnus—> BK—> BK blue









Cygnus Limited, came after BK and before BK Blue. This is rarer than the BK blue, so I guess most don't remember or know about it.


----------



## B9Scrambler (Mar 13, 2018)

WC Annihilus said:


> My BS1's came in today.  Sound is great, love the clarity.  There is one annoyance though.  When the cable moves a certain way, I hear some small crackling/popping sounds.  I'm not sure if this is the sign of a potential defect or that's just the way it is.



Since they don't have proper strain relief going into the shells, just those colored metal extensions, I found the cable to wiggle around and make mild clicks when it touched the sides. Never loud enough to bother me though.


----------



## seanc6441

WC Annihilus said:


> My BS1's came in today.  Sound is great, love the clarity.  There is one annoyance though.  When the cable moves a certain way, I hear some small crackling/popping sounds.  I'm not sure if this is the sign of a potential defect or that's just the way it is.


Try them over ear, if it is the cable microphonics or clicking off the shell then that should be eliminated by wearing them this way for now.


----------



## mochill

seanc6441 said:


> Try them over ear, if it is the cable microphonics or clicking off the shell then that should be eliminated by wearing them this way for now.


Make sure to clean the jack and connector


----------



## audio123

Enjoy! 

https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/03/13/ty-hi-z-f150ts/


----------



## cathee

Dipping out of work to catch the United v Sevilla game, detoured home to change and then....
















You guys think I have a shot of asking the guys at the bar to keep it down?


----------



## groucho69

audio123 said:


> Enjoy!
> 
> https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/03/13/ty-hi-z-f150ts/



You have the L/R colors reversed.


----------



## Ceteru

I had a revelation moment today (I've just been having "moment" after "moment" recently, I know).

After picking up the BS1 and the HP-650 they've turning into my main listening buds, while my Monk+ were turned exclusively into commute buds (I ride a bike to work so I'd rather keep the BS1 out of the elements). I usually keep one bud in my right ear and keep the music at a manageable level so I can still hear everything I need. I almost never use them in both ears anymore.

About 30 minutes ago, I got home from work and sat down to take off my shoes. A really good song came up in the rotation so without thinking I popped in the left Monk+ bud so that I could hear the music better.

Man..after hearing my other two earbuds, the Monk+ sounds stuffy in comparison. It has more up-front bass than the HP-650 (but definitely NOT the BS1 to my ears at least), but it comes across as a bit overpowering and "overly warm" to use an audiophile term (which I try my best not to use ) And the detail retrieval is nowhere near as close to either of the other two.

I made the right choice relegating them to use for noisy commuting, because they're good enough for that, but for "serious" listening, they quickly fall behind other options out there. I would still recommend them to people who only have $5 to spend, but even that price range has better options, so...

I call this a revelation moment because this was exactly how I felt when I first heard a pair of good headphones after exclusively using low-level Skullcandy IEMs. When I was using them (the IEMs), they were the best thing I had heard, but there was a lot more out there.

I can't imagine what my reaction to some Campfred buds would be


----------



## seanc6441

Ceteru said:


> I had a revelation moment today (I've just been having "moment" after "moment" recently, I know).
> 
> After picking up the BS1 and the HP-650 they've turning into my main listening buds, while my Monk+ were turned exclusively into commute buds (I ride a bike to work so I'd rather keep the BS1 out of the elements). I usually keep one bud in my right ear and keep the music at a manageable level so I can still hear everything I need. I almost never use them in both ears anymore.
> 
> ...


I have a feeling the zoomfred may be your next purchase  

But you also need to hear the shozy bk sometime ^^


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> I have a feeling the zoomfred may be your next purchase
> 
> But you also need to hear the shozy bk sometime ^^


Stop trying to empty my wallet, you robber


----------



## seanc6441

Ceteru said:


> Stop trying to empty my wallet, you robber


Ok do NOT I repeat NOT buy these earbuds!


----------



## audio123

groucho69 said:


> You have the L/R colors reversed.


I am trying to position it well for the photo haha


----------



## tayo15

From 30-50 dollar range, best earbuds I can buy? Past purchases I have had monk + and headroom ms16. I heavily disliked the monk plus. I greatly enjoyed the ms16. The ms16 had comfort issues but it had the closest sound signature I wanted. Spacious soundstage. Mids were emphasized with decent low end and decent high end. I would classify it as a very mid bright headphone.


----------



## Ceteru

seanc6441 said:


> Ok do NOT I repeat NOT buy these earbuds!


You can't tell me what to do!


----------



## chinmie

tayo15 said:


> From 30-50 dollar range, best earbuds I can buy? Past purchases I have had monk + and headroom ms16. I heavily disliked the monk plus. I greatly enjoyed the ms16. The ms16 had comfort issues but it had the closest sound signature I wanted. Spacious soundstage. Mids were emphasized with decent low end and decent high end. I would classify it as a very mid bright headphone.



try VX Pro


----------



## WC Annihilus (Mar 13, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> Since they don't have proper strain relief going into the shells, just those colored metal extensions, I found the cable to wiggle around and make mild clicks when it touched the sides. Never loud enough to bother me though.





seanc6441 said:


> Try them over ear, if it is the cable microphonics or clicking off the shell then that should be eliminated by wearing them this way for now.


Initially I thought it was a separate issue as I heard both the clicking and something more like static, but I also hear it when the buds aren't plugged into anything so it was probably both the cable hitting the housing and microphonics.  Wearing over ear has largely eliminated it, thanks!


----------



## Mezzi (Mar 14, 2018)

the FAAEAL Snow Lotus 2.0 is no joke.

They go head to head with the EMX500 run off an iphone
Destroy the EMX500 off a DAP or headphone amp. 

Very addicting sub bass, super clear highs. VERY natural vocal sound
Soundstage isn't super wide but wide enough.

I bought the FAAEAL's and once my girlfriend heard them, she stole em 
So I bought another.

FAAEAL Snow Lotus 2.0
EMX500 (Clear Shells)


----------



## haiku

ClieOS said:


> Cygnus Limited, came after BK and before BK Blue. This is rarer than the BK blue, so I guess most don't remember or know about it.



It´s on the way to me right now, hehehe!


----------



## rkw

tayo15 said:


> From 30-50 dollar range, best earbuds I can buy? Past purchases I have had monk + and headroom ms16. I heavily disliked the monk plus. I greatly enjoyed the ms16. The ms16 had comfort issues but it had the closest sound signature I wanted. Spacious soundstage. Mids were emphasized with decent low end and decent high end. I would classify it as a very mid bright headphone.


I like the PMV B01 Aoede, $35 from Amazon (fast shipping with Prime) or $29 from Penon. It was highly praised when it came out but has been lost among all the new models that keep coming out. $30-$50 is an awkward middle range. People in this thread tend to pursue either very low price models or higher end TOTL and contenders.


----------



## tayo15 (Mar 14, 2018)

rkw said:


> I like the PMV B01 Aoede, $35 from Amazon (fast shipping with Prime) or $29 from Penon. It was highly praised when it came out but has been lost among all the new models that keep coming out. $30-$50 is an awkward middle range. People in this thread tend to pursue either very low price models or higher end TOTL and contenders.


Of course lol. This isn't my first rodeo. I have purchased so many headphones and I know how easily one can slip into the wallet hole. It's just that chifi is coming along so well that sometimes something new comes out and everyone starts recommending them. I have as my main gaming pair HD 700 modded with audio house kit with RS 180 pads. Give it a warm bassy tone. I've purchased a ton of headphones from HD 580, ad900x, mad dogs 3.2, mdr 1000x, momentum 2, NAD  hp50, Audeze sine, B&O h6 2nd gen. List goes on an on. For commuting my fave pair is etymiotic hf5 , planning to upgrade those to the more higher end ones.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 14, 2018)

tayo15 said:


> From 30-50 dollar range, best earbuds I can buy? Past purchases I have had monk + and headroom ms16. I heavily disliked the monk plus. I greatly enjoyed the ms16. The ms16 had comfort issues but it had the closest sound signature I wanted. Spacious soundstage. Mids were emphasized with decent low end and decent high end. I would classify it as a very mid bright headphone.


Honestly you are describing the penon bs1 official  somewhat. It’s got that slight upper mid emphasis that gives a brighter presentation in the mids. If worn with thin foams I would call them bright and clear, but with a nice full bass presentation and clean lower mids. The soundstage is very spacious if worn over ear (I mean effortlessly large and airy) and the imaging is excellent at portraying 3D of sense positioning being equally as deep as it is wide. Pity they cost $99 because they sound exactly like what you are looking for.

Although the pmv aoede looks like a good suggestion within your price range.


----------



## groucho69

audio123 said:


> I am trying to position it well for the photo haha



Um, no. You write "The left shell is red in color while the right shell is blue in color." This is not correct.


----------



## seanc6441

groucho69 said:


> Um, no. You write "The left shell is red in color while the right shell is blue in color." This is not correct.


Show some respect for persons with inverted ears  hehe


----------



## groucho69

seanc6441 said:


> Show some respect for persons with inverted ears  hehe



Vulcan????


----------



## audio123 (Mar 14, 2018)

groucho69 said:


> Um, no. You write "The left shell is red in color while the right shell is blue in color." This is not correct.


Thanks! My bad, I have updated it!
Cheers mate. Appreciate for taking the time to read! Hope it helps!


----------



## seanc6441

groucho69 said:


> Vulcan????


Ok I had to google it because I’m not a star trek fan lol. I assume you’re talking about this?!


----------



## groucho69

seanc6441 said:


> Ok I had to google it because I’m not a star trek fan lol. I assume you’re talking about this?!


----------



## mbwilson111

rkw said:


> I like the PMV B01 Aoede,



Ok, the PVM B01 Aoede will be my bud for this afternoon.  They have been neglected as people kept talking about others that I just had to try...some newer models... some older... I think I have too many buds but there are none that I would give up.


----------



## chinmie

groucho69 said:


> Vulcan????



or Romulan..


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Ok, the PVM B01 Aoede will be my bud for this afternoon.  They have been neglected as people kept talking about others that I just had to try...some newer models... some older... I think I have too many buds but there are none that I would give up.


Those buds look beautiful. Really pull of the classy liebesleid/poseidon look in a budget friendly option. Hope they sound as good as they look.


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> Those buds look beautiful. Really pull of the classy liebesleid/poseidon look in a budget friendly option. Hope they sound as good as they look.



I ordered them after reading this:  https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/pmv-b01-aoede.22436/reviews#review-18716

gotta love buttery smoothness!


----------



## audio123

Been a long time since I choose from this box of earbuds with the exception of F150TS!


----------



## audio123

mbwilson111 said:


> I ordered them after reading this:  https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/pmv-b01-aoede.22436/reviews#review-18716
> 
> gotta love buttery smoothness!


Oh this is one of my earliest reviews! I am sorry that it is not as refined as my current reviews.
Do let me know if you need any advices. Appreciate the support!


----------



## seanc6441

Anyone with the BS1 official capable of providing measurements of frequency response compensated for human ear?

I know it’s a big ask but I’m trying to get them dead neutral and there’s some sort of glare/emphasis in the upper mids I want to eliminate with EQ.

Not sure if these measurements are even possible to accurately obtain for earbuds as they are for headphones?


----------



## noknok23

audio123 said:


> Oh this is one of my earliest reviews! I am sorry that it is not as refined as my current reviews.
> Do let me know if you need any advices. Appreciate the support!


 what is your personal favorites earbuds? like top three?


----------



## mbwilson111

audio123 said:


> Been a long time since I choose from this box of earbuds with the exception of F150TS!



How many boxes like that do you have and what are those in the photo?


----------



## audio123 (Mar 14, 2018)

noknok23 said:


> what is your personal favorites earbuds? like top three?


It will be 1.Penon BS1 Official 2.Rose Masya/HiFi Boy Dream 3.Astrotec Lyra Collection


mbwilson111 said:


> How many boxes like that do you have and what are those in the photo?


I have 2 boxes including this. My IEM collection is bigger 
Many earbuds ranging from TY Hi-Z F300M to Black Lion!


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 14, 2018)

I bought some very thin paper filters (its actually medical mask filters) for my HD540 headphones to tame the treble and upper mid harshness  based on a suggestion I read before, and they arrived today. I have plenty spares which got me thinking... What if I cut some of the filter paper to fit under a thin foam on my Masya. Truth be told I pretty much abandoned my masya in favour of the BS1 recently because I just couldn’t get it to sound right. Thin foams were too treble heavy and downright screechy, thick foams dulled the whole midrange and made the low mids weak and mid bass bloated.

So I grabbed the aliexpress thin foam, and pushed the little filter inside (no easy feat...) and after fiddling with it for a few minutes I finally got them in place over the driver front.

So I grabbed my LG V20 and fired up some tunes (Pink Floyd - Meddle). As soon as I hit play on the track ‘fearless’ I was smiling...

Who knew this earbud both hates thick foams and needs them at the same time? But now I can enjoy the transparency and clean detail of the thin foams which help bring texture and authority to the mids, yet still maintain a smooth airy treble response.

Now these are right back up there with the BS1, I was considering selling them (my second pair) until this moment!

I still suggest well mastered music for these as they will sound revealing/harsh of lower quality stuff but saying these are transformed is pretty fair from my original setup.


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> Anyone with the BS1 official capable of providing measurements of frequency response compensated for human ear?
> 
> I know it’s a big ask but I’m trying to get them dead neutral and there’s some sort of glare/emphasis in the upper mids I want to eliminate with EQ.
> 
> Not sure if these measurements are even possible to accurately obtain for earbuds as they are for headphones?



Earbud measurement doesn't look like IEM's, as you need to understand the open nature of an earbud means their FR curve needs to compensate a lot more 'leak' on the lower end and thus they all look like they have a lot of bass, which of course isn't what you will hear actually.

Anyway, here is BS-1 Official, diffused field compensated.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 14, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> Earbud measurement doesn't look like IEM's, as you need to understand the open nature of an earbud means their FR curve needs to compensate a lot more 'leak' on the lower end and thus they all look like they have a lot of bass, which of course isn't what you will hear actually.
> 
> Anyway, here is BS-1 Official, diffused field compensated.


Thank you! and you obviously know much more than I do about measurements but I’m trying to learn as I go along. Just one question. I see some graphs target for 0db as a baseline (everything closer to it is ideal in the lower frequencies and there seems to be a natural rise around 2k and a fall beyond that) then I see other graphs which seem to be using a completely different db level as a ‘baseline’.

On this particular graph is it useful to grade ‘neutrality’ in relation to some db level or is it more important to just look at the general balance of the response.


----------



## Saoshyant

PMV B01 Aoede didn't do anything really to grab my attention, but I should give it another listen.  Then again I will always lean more towards a fun-centric over neutral all things being equal.  Probably why I didn't really get much out of the Yinman 600, although I did love the cable.


----------



## jogawag (May 6, 2018)

tayo15 said:


> From 30-50 dollar range, best earbuds I can buy? Past purchases I have had monk + and headroom ms16. I heavily disliked the monk plus. I greatly enjoyed the ms16. The ms16 had comfort issues but it had the closest sound signature I wanted. Spacious soundstage. Mids were emphasized with decent low end and decent high end. I would classify it as a very mid bright headphone.


I recommend you Willsound MK2.($47 which cost is included shipping fee)
http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone/willsound-mk2-new-batch.html


----------



## HungryPanda

jogawag said:


> I recommend you Willsound MK2.($47)
> http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone/willsound-mk2-new-batch.html


I totally agree


----------



## groucho69

HungryPanda said:


> I totally agree



What about MK3?


----------



## ctaxxxx

Got my ZoomFred's in. Out of the box, I already find these pretty impressive. Bass and soundstage is what surprises me the most. Can't wait to burn these in. The bass already sounds better than the CampFred's, which is already a step above the QFred's. Cypherus seems to have nailed the tonality with these. Makes me REALLY curious about the CAX Red Dragon more now lol. Also, makes me wonder why I have so much trouble with IEMs and headphones.

Now I got to complain for a second here... I bought some $800 _beryllium(-coated)_ headphones recently and have been pretty disappointed with them (sold my CampFred 2 for them as I needed a bassy alternative with isolation for work). Already getting ready to return them... Nothing much seems to hit the sweet spot for me between bass-thumping musicality, analytical fidelity, and plain neutrality. It's always leans too much in one direction. The only thing that has nailed it are my Diomnes Lvl2, Cypherus buds, and Sony MDR-Z1R. One is absurdly more expensive than the other! 

I have some beryllium IEMs coming tomorrow, but honestly, I'm already prepared for disappointment. I'm starting to consider buying some ear muffs or something and use that to block sound while using earbuds.


----------



## mbwilson111

ctaxxxx said:


> I bought some $800 _beryllium(-coated)_ headphones recently and have been pretty disappointed with them



Which headphones are you talking about?



ctaxxxx said:


> I have some beryllium IEMs coming tomorrow, but honestly, I'm already prepared for disappointment.



I must be too easily pleased because I am rarely disappointed.  Of course I know some of my stuff is better than other stuff but whatever I am using I usually just get into my music and forget to critique the equipment.

Right now I am really enjoying my PMV B01 Aoede


----------



## seanc6441

ctaxxxx said:


> Got my ZoomFred's in. Out of the box, I already find these pretty impressive. Bass and soundstage is what surprises me the most. Can't wait to burn these in. The bass already sounds better than the CampFred's, which is already a step above the QFred's. Cypherus seems to have nailed the tonality with these. Makes me REALLY curious about the CAX Red Dragon more now lol. Also, makes me wonder why I have so much trouble with IEMs and headphones.
> 
> Now I got to complain for a second here... I bought some $800 _beryllium(-coated)_ headphones recently and have been pretty disappointed with them (sold my CampFred 2 for them as I needed a bassy alternative with isolation for work). Already getting ready to return them... Nothing much seems to hit the sweet spot for me between bass-thumping musicality, analytical fidelity, and plain neutrality. It's always leans too much in one direction. The only thing that has nailed it are my Diomnes Lvl2, Cypherus buds, and Sony MDR-Z1R. One is absurdly more expensive than the other!
> 
> I have some beryllium IEMs coming tomorrow, but honestly, I'm already prepared for disappointment. I'm starting to consider buying some ear muffs or something and use that to block sound while using earbuds.


I think the real question here is how is the cable on the zoomfreds. Is it soft enough?


----------



## ctaxxxx

mbwilson111 said:


> I must be too easily pleased because I am rarely disappointed.  Of course I know some of my stuff is better than other stuff but whatever I am using I usually just get into my music and forget to critique the equipment.
> 
> Right now I am really enjoying my PMV B01 Aoede



Every time you upgrade, the more expensive it gets. When something 3x the price of your TOTL earbuds doesn't meet your expectations, it's hard not to be disappointed. Not to mention a huge waste of money if you're unable to get a full refund. At this point, all I'm looking for though is something that provides isolation, portability, and comparable sound quality, all without dropping a fortune.

The headphones I got just drowned you in mid-bass and thick mids, despite resolving details with high fidelity. Quality bass at high quantities is really hard to do without washing out all the other frequencies, which I understand. The beryllium phones have been getting good reviews, but it's just the tuning I can't get behind.




seanc6441 said:


> I think the real question here is how is the cable on the zoomfreds. Is it soft enough?



It's not stiff. Nothing like the CAX Black, especially after the splitter, since the cables lose the thick covering.


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> Thank you! and you obviously know much more than I do about measurements but I’m trying to learn as I go along. Just one question. I see some graphs target for 0db as a baseline (everything closer to it is ideal in the lower frequencies and there seems to be a natural rise around 2k and a fall beyond that) then I see other graphs which seem to be using a completely different db level as a ‘baseline’.
> 
> On this particular graph is it useful to grade ‘neutrality’ in relation to some db level or is it more important to just look at the general balance of the response.



Unless the measurement equipment is specified to have calibrated to a certain loudness (94dB @ 1kHz is most common), the dB scale you see on most graphs are actually not an absolute value in real life but just a way to show relative loudness over the whole frequency range. For example, if the artificial ear is calibrated for 94dB @ 1kHz, then the 1kHz point on the graph (regardless whether it is at 0dB point or not) will be absolute 94dB - so if 2kHz on the graph is +5dB over 1kHz, then we know that 2kHz is 94+5dB loud in real life. Calibration is crucial if you want to measure the headphone's SPL (usually at 1V or 0.1V), but not so much on its FR curve because whether 1kHz is on certain loudness or not will NOT change the relative loudness of 2kHz over 1kHz (meaning the FR curve doesn't change much regardless of what loudness the headphone is on, as long as it is relatively reasonable) - thus most people don't bother to calibrate (*not to mention sound level calibrator is usually pretty expensive for fairly limited use).

That being said - the 0dB point you see on most graph are the result of scale adjustment by the person who took the measurement. I can adjust the graph so the FR curve is either 0dB @1kHz, or 0dB @ 10kHz, or 0dB @ any point of the frequency response - and it will still be the same FR curve. The adjustment is just a way to make it easier to read and serve no other purpose since my rig isn't calibrated to a fixed loudness.


----------



## chinmie

ctaxxxx said:


> I have some beryllium IEMs coming tomorrow, but honestly, I'm already prepared for disappointment. I'm starting to consider buying some ear muffs or something and use that to block sound while using earbuds.



what iem that you're talking about?



ctaxxxx said:


> At this point, all I'm looking for though is something that provides isolation, portability, and comparable sound quality, all without dropping a fortune.



have you tried the etymotics line? i really like their sound signature, and the isolation is (scarily) great. like you  i also playing with the idea of buying earmuffs and just using earbuds when i go out, but that means i have to carry another large object with me.  and also i don't like walking around wearing headphones, it's hot to the ears and people tend to look at you in my country. i went with iem and bluetooth neckband combo instead


----------



## boblauer

ctaxxxx said:


> Every time you upgrade, the more expensive it gets. When something 3x the price of your TOTL earbuds doesn't meet your expectations, it's hard not to be disappointed. Not to mention a huge waste of money if you're unable to get a full refund. At this point, all I'm looking for though is something that provides isolation, portability, and comparable sound quality, all without dropping a fortune.
> 
> The headphones I got just drowned you in mid-bass and thick mids, despite resolving details with high fidelity. Quality bass at high quantities is really hard to do without washing out all the other frequencies, which I understand. The beryllium phones have been getting good reviews, but it's just the tuning I can't get behind.
> 
> ...


If you are looking for some on/over ears with use in a portable manner look into the Meze 99 Classics or Neo's. They're closed so they work in an office setting, easy to drive and a pretty pleasing signature. Check their thread lots of good info.


----------



## ctaxxxx

chinmie said:


> what iem that you're talking about?
> 
> have you tried the etymotics line? i really like their sound signature, and the isolation is (scarily) great. like you  i also playing with the idea of buying earmuffs and just using earbuds when i go out, but that means i have to carry another large object with me.  and also i don't like walking around wearing headphones, it's hot to the ears and people tend to look at you in my country. i went with iem and bluetooth neckband combo instead



By Periodic Audio. It's the only beryllium IEM I'm aware of at least. 

I forgot about the Etymotic IEMs! I used to own their ER4XR model. The deep insertion hurt my right ear canal, but they had a great reference tuning. I prefer the earbuds now for reference listening, especially with the huge soundstage difference, which was their greatest weakness. 

I'm mainly looking for something to replace the CampFred 2 now. Maybe I should have worn something like these over them lol. Doubt it would have fit very well though. 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002F513E/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_hsEQAbTJ0A2CC




boblauer said:


> If you are looking for some on/over ears with use in a portable manner look into the Meze 99 Classics or Neo's. They're closed so they work in an office setting, easy to drive and a pretty pleasing signature. Check their thread lots of good info.



I've heard good things about them. I'll look into them too.


----------



## mbwilson111

boblauer said:


> If you are looking for some on/over ears with use in a portable manner look into the Meze 99 Classics or Neo's. They're closed so they work in an office setting, easy to drive and a pretty pleasing signature. Check their thread lots of good info.





ctaxxxx said:


> I've heard good things about them. I'll look into them too.



I really enjoy my Meze Neo.  I will never part with it.


----------



## chinmie

ctaxxxx said:


> By Periodic Audio. It's the only beryllium IEM I'm aware of at least.
> 
> I forgot about the Etymotic IEMs! I used to own their ER4XR model. The deep insertion hurt my right ear canal, but they had a great reference tuning. I prefer the earbuds now for reference listening, especially with the huge soundstage difference, which was their greatest weakness.
> 
> ...



well there's Urbanfun Hi-fi Beryllium, but i think that's a whole level of price range from the Periodic ones 

Yup, i could never get a seal with the tri flanges to fit in my left ears, in the eand i mod the ER4XR to be able to use regular size nozzled tips, and use some medium double flanges. never been happier. i agree with the small soundstage, but to me that's what makes them special, it's like sitting in a studio session right in the middle of the players. no other earphones that i have that does that, so for now it's a keeper.

if soundstage is the issue, i think using earbuds is a better solution, altough even using earbuds with earmuff will make the soundstage drop a little and make them more like IEM


----------



## cocolinho

@ctaxxxx There are plenty of beryllium IEMs, even low cost chinese ones.
How much did you pay for your zoomfred?


----------



## ctaxxxx

cocolinho said:


> @ctaxxxx There are plenty of beryllium IEMs, even low cost chinese ones.
> How much did you pay for your zoomfred?



Really? I guess the ones by PA are the ones I've seen mentioned lately. Been curious about beryllium since the Utopia uses them. Are there beryllium earbuds yet? lol

They were the same cost I paid for CampFred 2 or QFred + extra for the balanced plug. -> $315



ctaxxxx said:


> seanc6441 said:
> 
> 
> > I think the real question here is how is the cable on the zoomfreds. Is it soft enough?
> ...



Feel like I should clarify here. They are not Shozy / CampFred / etc. flexible, but compared to my Diomnes, they're around the same stiffness before the splitter. After the splitter, it's more flexible in comparison. I would say it's nothing to worry about.


----------



## Danneq

ctaxxxx said:


> Got my ZoomFred's in. Out of the box, I already find these pretty impressive. Bass and soundstage is what surprises me the most. Can't wait to burn these in. The bass already sounds better than the CampFred's, which is already a step above the QFred's. Cypherus seems to have nailed the tonality with these. Makes me REALLY curious about the CAX Red Dragon more now lol. Also, makes me wonder why I have so much trouble with IEMs and headphones.




Wow! Now I really want to buy ZoomFred! I come from the other end, wondering how ZoomFred sounds like when compared to Red Dragon. Herry said it's not in the same league as Red Dragon but more portable. I want something that is like a "baby Red Dragon" but more portable so that I can bring it outside, and also not worry about them breaking. ZF is more than half the price of Red Dragon so it wouldn't feel as bad if they broke while using them outside.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 15, 2018)

Danneq said:


> Wow! Now I really want to buy ZoomFred! I come from the other end, wondering how ZoomFred sounds like when compared to Red Dragon. Herry said it's not in the same league as Red Dragon but more portable. I want something that is like a "baby Red Dragon" but more portable so that I can bring it outside, and also not worry about them breaking. ZF is more than half the price of Red Dragon so it wouldn't feel as bad if they broke while using them outside.


how much are they actually? I’m definitely considering buying these as my first cypherus buds.

@ctaxxxx Maybe check out the RBH HP2 headphone it’s beryllium and portable for $150. Saw it mentioned somewhere before and praised for its bass quality without muddying the mids or high’s.


----------



## Danneq

seanc6441 said:


> how much are they actually? I’m definitely considering buying these as my first cypherus buds.



The price I got when I asked was $249 excluding shipping. Shipping from Indonesia to Europe has been the big problem since it is best to choose EMS (around $40 to Sweden).

My family is going to Japan in June for 2 months and Herry told me that he might go to Japan in June. If it works out I might be able to meet up with him in Tokyo and buy ZoomFred directly from him.


----------



## mochill

ctaxxxx said:


> Every time you upgrade, the more expensive it gets. When something 3x the price of your TOTL earbuds doesn't meet your expectations, it's hard not to be disappointed. Not to mention a huge waste of money if you're unable to get a full refund. At this point, all I'm looking for though is something that provides isolation, portability, and comparable sound quality, all without dropping a fortune.
> 
> The headphones I got just drowned you in mid-bass and thick mids, despite resolving details with high fidelity. Quality bass at high quantities is really hard to do without washing out all the other frequencies, which I understand. The beryllium phones have been getting good reviews, but it's just the tuning I can't get behind.
> 
> ...


Maybe cardas a8


----------



## chinmie

damn, this song (and album)...had goosebumps everytime...


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> damn, this song (and album)...had goosebumps everytime...



Thanks for that.  

In 1994 I saw Jeff Buckley twice in Michigan.  The first time was at the Gem Theater in Detroit (not sure if it is still there). We had a table quite near the stage.  I could not believe how many beautiful guitars he had on stage.  I don't remember which song but at one point he was holding a note...and he held it... and he held it...and then he looked at his watch... and held it some more.   A sly sense of humor   Afterwards I met him backstage and he signed my CD.

The second time was at the Ann Arbor Ark, a wonderful small venue where I have seen many of my favorite artists.   Brenda Kahn opened and also accompanied him on some songs.  You mentioned goosebumps.  That is because HE really feels the songs when he sings.  During one song you could see how emotionally engaged he was.  At the end he burst into tears.

That was when the ark was in an older location from where it is now... only 150 person capacity.  The newer Ark which opened not too long after seats around 400.  I spoke to him after the show.  He said he remembered me but I don't think he really did.

Such a talented artist.  A beautiful and gentle soul.  Music died for me for awhile after he died.  It is difficult for me emotionally to listen to him with headphones... maybe I should try buds.  I have not done that yet.

Info about the Ark from their page (just in case anyone here lives close enough to go):

The Ark is Michigan’s nonprofit home for folk and roots music. Considered one of the top music clubs in the world, The Ark is renowned for the quality and breadth of its programming. The Ark is an intimate 400-seat club presenting performers ranging from young up-and-comers to classic figures of the folk genre. With live music over 300 nights each year in one of the best listening rooms anywhere, The Ark is a sure bet for a memorable evening of enriching entertainment, musical artistry, and personal warmth.


----------



## acap13

ctaxxxx said:


> Got my ZoomFred's in. Out of the box, I already find these pretty impressive. Bass and soundstage is what surprises me the most. Can't wait to burn these in. The bass already sounds better than the CampFred's, which is already a step above the QFred's. Cypherus seems to have nailed the tonality with these. Makes me REALLY curious about the CAX Red Dragon more now lol. Also, makes me wonder why I have so much trouble with IEMs and headphones.
> 
> Now I got to complain for a second here... I bought some $800 _beryllium(-coated)_ headphones recently and have been pretty disappointed with them (sold my CampFred 2 for them as I needed a bassy alternative with isolation for work). Already getting ready to return them... Nothing much seems to hit the sweet spot for me between bass-thumping musicality, analytical fidelity, and plain neutrality. It's always leans too much in one direction. The only thing that has nailed it are my Diomnes Lvl2, Cypherus buds, and Sony MDR-Z1R. One is absurdly more expensive than the other!
> 
> I have some beryllium IEMs coming tomorrow, but honestly, I'm already prepared for disappointment. I'm starting to consider buying some ear muffs or something and use that to block sound while using earbuds.



Really interesting on the early impression on the ZF.

Sad to hear about your Beryllium headphone turned out to be disappointment. The only transducer that wont dissapoint most people in general is gotta be Utopia ( the best dynamic headphone I have ever tested ). But it is different price range and utilises pure Berryllium diaphragm as opposed to coated one. 

On the other hand, that is why we are all here in earbud territory. Cheers


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> Thanks for that.
> 
> In 1994 I saw Jeff Buckley twice in Michigan.  The first time was at the Gem Theater in Detroit (not sure if it is still there). We had a table quite near the stage.  I could not believe how many beautiful guitars he had on stage.  I don't remember which song but at one point he was holding a note...and he held it... and he held it...and then he looked at his watch... and held it some more.   A sly sense of humor   Afterwards I met him backstage and he signed my CD.
> 
> ...



wow..  thank you for sharing...  i didn't expect  to hear a story from someone who had actually met him..

i was late to the party. I've only discovered his songs after he passed, instead i listened and played the more energetic music of his peers, like the Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, etc.

now i always have his albums on every phones, ipod, and PCs that i have. Listening to his voice, you must know the feeling that you're gonna cry and smile at the same time? that's how i feel about him. that man went too early and too sudden. may he find peace in the afterlife.. 

for me, the first time i literally cried at the news of an artist passing was when Kurt Cobain died


----------



## luckyeights

Danneq said:


> The price I got when I asked was $249 excluding shipping. Shipping from Indonesia to Europe has been the big problem since it is best to choose EMS (around $40 to Sweden).
> 
> My family is going to Japan in June for 2 months and Herry told me that he might go to Japan in June. If it works out I might be able to meet up with him in Tokyo and buy ZoomFred directly from him.



Your going to Japan for 2 months im so jelly.  Are you being sent over there by your company to do some work over there?


----------



## Cyperus

ctaxxxx said:


> Got my ZoomFred's in. Out of the box, I already find these pretty impressive. Bass and soundstage is what surprises me the most. Can't wait to burn these in. The bass already sounds better than the CampFred's, which is already a step above the QFred's. Cypherus seems to have nailed the tonality with these. Makes me REALLY curious about the CAX Red Dragon more now lol. Also, makes me wonder why I have so much trouble with IEMs and headphones.
> 
> Now I got to complain for a second here... I bought some $800 _beryllium(-coated)_ headphones recently and have been pretty disappointed with them (sold my CampFred 2 for them as I needed a bassy alternative with isolation for work). Already getting ready to return them... Nothing much seems to hit the sweet spot for me between bass-thumping musicality, analytical fidelity, and plain neutrality. It's always leans too much in one direction. The only thing that has nailed it are my Diomnes Lvl2, Cypherus buds, and Sony MDR-Z1R. One is absurdly more expensive than the other!
> 
> I have some beryllium IEMs coming tomorrow, but honestly, I'm already prepared for disappointment. I'm starting to consider buying some ear muffs or something and use that to block sound while using earbuds.



Congratulation on your ZoomFred. Unlike other Cypherus earbuds, ZoomFred is using cryogenic treatment cable same as Red Dragon. Thus burn in time is take longer. Based on my experience, it will take over than 150 hours. The sound change over the period of time will be big that is easily noticable. Please don't feel dissappointed when it change becoming bad during burn in process. It will start to stabilize after 300 hours. 

Also, I just want to point out to be carefull when using low impedance earbuds with current type amplifier as it will damage the structural of dynamic driver. Just my 2 cents of advice.


----------



## Cyperus

Danneq said:


> Wow! Now I really want to buy ZoomFred! I come from the other end, wondering how ZoomFred sounds like when compared to Red Dragon. Herry said it's not in the same league as Red Dragon but more portable. I want something that is like a "baby Red Dragon" but more portable so that I can bring it outside, and also not worry about them breaking. ZF is more than half the price of Red Dragon so it wouldn't feel as bad if they broke while using them outside.



Hi danneq, 
I will visit Japan first week of july. Keep you posted...


----------



## ctaxxxx

Cyperus said:


> Congratulation on your ZoomFred. Unlike other Cypherus earbuds, ZoomFred is using cryogenic treatment cable same as Red Dragon. Thus burn in time is take longer. Based on my experience, it will take over than 150 hours. The sound change over the period of time will be big that is easily noticable. Please don't feel dissappointed when it change becoming bad during burn in process. It will start to stabilize after 300 hours.
> 
> Also, I just want to point out to be carefull when using low impedance earbuds with current type amplifier as it will damage the structural of dynamic driver. Just my 2 cents of advice.



Thanks. I'm not sure what you mean by your second statement. Been driving these with the DX200's AMP4 module. Is that overkill? Can someone elaborate?


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 15, 2018)

ctaxxxx said:


> Thanks. I'm not sure what you mean by your second statement. Been driving these with the DX200's AMP4 module. Is that overkill? Can someone elaborate?


I think some smartphone have too much output voltage for most earbuds as they are designed with headphones in mind or maybe it's simplier to have a more generous voltage output for most gear on the basis on being universally suitable for different gear.

DAP`s are usually more contious about this in most cases I think, having lower output voltage to use with portable gear or possibly some smarter way of controlling the output depending on the impendance of the gear.

I'm not sure where audio focused phones like lg v20 etc fall into this theory but I imagine it's on a phone by phone basis.

This is what I've heard anyway. I'm not sure how or if output voltage and output impendance correlate but you definitely want low output impendance for sensitive gear in terms of it not affecting the frequency response and low output voltage to keep your peace of mind that your gear isn't gonna be damaged.


----------



## Cyperus

ctaxxxx said:


> Thanks. I'm not sure what you mean by your second statement. Been driving these with the DX200's AMP4 module. Is that overkill? Can someone elaborate?



Current Amplifier is build to drive big loudspeaker thus application in portable audio is not suitable. But, some manufacturing have made some modification to be suitable for portable audio. 

Current amp to my opinion is suitable best for BA driver. 

I don't have DX200 DAP, thus I can't comment on this


----------



## acap13

As long as it is a portable audio player and portable amplifier, it is safe enough and sufficient to be driving any earbuds out there.

@Cyperus do you mean Zoomfred is better driven by voltage drawn type of amplifier (high output impedance) in terms of sound quality or the safety of the dynamic driver? Because your statement on the current amplifier (low OI) being more suitable for BA driver is generally true due to less susceptible to mess up with the tonal shifting of the mutliple BA crossovers. Therefore, sound quality is favored on that case. However, I'm not so sure which case holds for the Zoomfred.


----------



## ClieOS

VE Monk Lite 40ohm SPC balanced
VE Monk Lite 120ohm SPC balanced
VE Zen Lite balanced


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Reading reviews and feedback of NiceHCK EBX TOTL earbud begin to work on me....are they as good as the Aliexpress hype tell? From what I read it promess thick impactfull bass with large detailed vocal....and impressive soundstage...if low and mids are excellent, this sure is interesting!


----------



## HungryPanda

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Reading reviews and feedback of NiceHCK EBX TOTL earbud begin to work on me....are they as good as the Aliexpress hype tell? From what I read it promess thick impactfull bass with large detailed vocal....and impressive soundstage...if low and mids are excellent, this sure is interesting!


 Wel I certainly think they are excellent earbuds


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

HungryPanda said:


> Wel I certainly think they are excellent earbuds


OH. 
Must expensive earbud I own are the Mrz Tomahawk (50$ at the time)....so, I have big attempt about sound upgrade with above 100$ earbuds...wich mean, I want everything to sound good, and full bodied bass is very rare, especially with full bodied mids....will love to mix MRz sound with EMX500 bass, wich even if not perfect have good chunkness to it. 

what about soundstage deepness and layering?

a 14.8mm gigantic dynamic driver sure promess big soundstage I guess.


----------



## Danneq

luckyeights said:


> Your going to Japan for 2 months im so jelly.  Are you being sent over there by your company to do some work over there?



Visiting family there (my wife is from Japan). June through August is the worst time to be in Japan, though. Pretty much like a sauna with high temperatures and humidity.


----------



## noknok23 (Mar 15, 2018)

Nymphonomaniac said:


> OH.
> Must expensive earbud I own are the Mrz Tomahawk (50$ at the time)....so, I have big attempt about sound upgrade with above 100$ earbuds...wich mean, I want everything to sound good, and full bodied bass is very rare, especially with full bodied mids....will love to mix MRz sound with EMX500 bass, wich even if not perfect have good chunkness to it.
> 
> what about soundstage deepness and layering?
> ...


Can't recall who exactly but some complained here that they were too "bright" for their taste.

imo you may like K's 300 Samsara . I was able to grab it for 80euro at the 11.11 sale.


----------



## Danneq

Cyperus said:


> Hi danneq,
> I will visit Japan first week of july. Keep you posted...



Great! You can always reach me through my e-mail. I'll get a sim card for data for my mobile phone while in Japan.


----------



## Saoshyant

@Cyperus I'm so sorry I forgot to email you back.  I'm still quite happy with both CampFreds, and have sunk a bit of money into a new computer, plus ordered the new bluetooth Audeze headphones that will arrive in June or so.  Maybe at another time, as I really respect your work.


----------



## AmericanEDC

I keep seeing: TOTL
Is this “top of the line” meaning the best a manufacturer makes?

Please explain. Thank you!


----------



## rkw (Mar 15, 2018)

AmericanEDC said:


> I keep seeing: TOTL
> Is this “top of the line” meaning the best a manufacturer makes?


No, it means among the best available regardless of manufacturer.

Some manufacturers make multiple TOTL earbuds, and a budget lower end manufacturer would make none.


----------



## AmericanEDC (Mar 15, 2018)

UPS just showed up. Too much to ask that it be any of the headphones I ordered, though all coming from China via e packet.


----------



## chellity (Mar 15, 2018)

The willsound mk2s I got are so good, that they easily blow all my other budget buds out of the water.  I urge you all to grab a pair if you want the best bud for around $40 shipped...just a perfect all rounder, great fidelity, soundstage, tonality, bass...everything.  I took a music appreciation course this quarter, and I could easily tell between the different microphones, masterings, etc. across eras.  When people say his buds sound analog, they are not joking whatsoever.  

Which is why it makes me very curious over the new willsound offerings.  Does anyone have any information on the willsound mk3 or especially the new willsound mk1 version 2 from Earbuds Anonymous?  I was originally wanting a mk3 with the new driver, but the newer mk1 version 2 sounds pretty good as a counterpart to my more neutral willsound mk2s.  Rholupat seemed to be fairly impressed with the new mk1s.

I originally wanted a BS1 to step up, but i always use my earbuds on the go (sometimes while biking) so im not sure the cable would play well with me.   The willsound mk2s sound so good even coming from a he-400i with ori pads and a thx-00 ebony...really entices me to buy more willsound


----------



## RuFrost

1) For earbuds, any model, the amp is the must. Otherwise, they just do not show their real potential. So when people are disagreeing about some earbuds, it is because of the sources which they use to drive their models. 
2) does anybody here using HUGO or MOJO to drive your earbuds? Does they both have enough power to drive high ohms earbuds with authority? 
3) sorry guys if this message is off topic, but I have Zen 2.0 Black Cardas version for sale or trade for another TOTL earbuds. If you have some, please let me know. They are in perfect condition and I love the sound, but I want to try something else. PM me for offerings))


----------



## chinmie

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Reading reviews and feedback of NiceHCK EBX TOTL earbud begin to work on me....are they as good as the Aliexpress hype tell? From what I read it promess thick impactfull bass with large detailed vocal....and impressive soundstage...if low and mids are excellent, this sure is interesting!



From what my friend said, it is a great sounding jakk of all trades earbuds, meaning it would work great if you listen to wide variety of music.
I agree with @noknok23 suggestion, the samsara is another great all arounder that you should try.


----------



## chinmie

chellity said:


> Does anyone have any information on the willsound mk3 or especially the new willsound mk1 version 2 from Earbuds Anonymous?



The MK3 have a thinner mid bass, not too extended sub bass, and brighter treble. It's great for metal and other speedy rock music. MK1 is good if you like warmer tone and fatter low bass than the MK2. 

Between the BS1 and MK2, i prefer the MK2 



RuFrost said:


> For earbuds, any model, the amp is the must. Otherwise, they just do not show their real potential. So when people are disagreeing about some earbuds, it is because of the sources which they use to drive their models.



Not really, it depends on the (like any other earphones or headphones) impedance and sensitivity. If you're talking about the zen, then yes, it needs amplification


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> Not really, it depends on the (like any other earphones or headphones) impedance and sensitivity. If you're talking about the zen, then yes, it needs amplification



That's been my experience as well.


----------



## Slater (Mar 15, 2018)

Anyone considering taking the **** PT15 v2 apart to use the drivers elsewhere, don't. The way the drivers are glued in (and the earbud assembled), you will completely destroy the drivers getting it opened up :0(

On a related note, if anyone wants me to post photos of the graphene diaphragm, lemme know and I will take some.

Also, the PT15 magnet is extremely powerful. I have no way to measure it, but it is noticeably stronger than the average magnet of an identicaly-sized driver. This, in combination with the graphene diaphragm, is most likely why the low end on the PT15 v2 is as good as it is.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 15, 2018)

AmericanEDC said:


> I keep seeing: TOTL
> Is this “top of the line” meaning the best a manufacturer makes?
> 
> Please explain. Thank you!


In the colloquial use here it just means a premium earbud, one of the best around. It may be the company’s best, or amoung their best. For instance the K’s Ling would be called a TOTL/Top of the line earbud, yet technically only the Poseidon would the their TOTL bud.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 15, 2018)

chellity said:


> The willsound mk2s I got are so good, that they easily blow all my other budget buds out of the water.  I urge you all to grab a pair if you want the best bud for around $40 shipped...just a perfect all rounder, great fidelity, soundstage, tonality, bass...everything.  I took a music appreciation course this quarter, and I could easily tell between the different microphones, masterings, etc. across eras.  When people say his buds sound analog, they are not joking whatsoever.
> 
> Which is why it makes me very curious over the new willsound offerings.  Does anyone have any information on the willsound mk3 or especially the new willsound mk1 version 2 from Earbuds Anonymous?  I was originally wanting a mk3 with the new driver, but the newer mk1 version 2 sounds pretty good as a counterpart to my more neutral willsound mk2s.  Rholupat seemed to be fairly impressed with the new mk1s.
> 
> I originally wanted a BS1 to step up, but i always use my earbuds on the go (sometimes while biking) so im not sure the cable would play well with me.   The willsound mk2s sound so good even coming from a he-400i with ori pads and a thx-00 ebony...really entices me to buy more willsound


The BS1 is excellent once you tamper with the fit and foams but there’s some issue in tonality in the upper mids/lower treble im trying to sort out. It’s not noticeable on all tracks but once you here the ‘glare’ or compare with some other fairly neutral buds it’s obvious.

But... if you’re willing to tweak it for fit and if you can use an advanced EQ to sort to get it neutral, it’s a really really competent driver with the best depth and imaging I’ve heard at this price. My only real critique is the vocals bring a tad too relaxed, I’d prefer them to be a little more forward to separate them from the rest.

I really love it because I like a challenge and some modding haha, it’s totally worth the price.

If you’re looking for something that’s great out of the box and isn’t finicky at all, maybe grab a different earbud.


----------



## vladstef

Slater said:


> Anyone considering taking the **** PT15 v2 apart to use the drivers elsewhere, don't. The way the drivers are glued in (and the earbud assembled), you will completely destroy the drivers opening it up :0(
> 
> On a related note, if anyone wants me to post photos of the graphene diaphragm, lemme know and I will take some.
> 
> Also, the PT15 magnet is extremely powerful. I have no way to measure it, but it is noticeably stronger than the average magnet of an identicaly-sized driver. This, in combination with the graphene diaphragm, is most likely why the low end on the PT15 v2 is as good as it is.



The two things that can be destroyed are membrane and coil wires. If it's the wires, it's fixable with regular soldering. Membrane on the other hand, small wrinkles can easily be brought back to their regular shape but other than that, nothing can be done. I've actually managed to fix 10mm graphene driver of Aulgamour RT-1 IEM but unwinding a bit of coil wires and soldering them back to the board on the back - tricky because stuff is so small but not impossible.

In fact, this gives me opportunity to give you my interaction with EMX500 drivers. They started crackling over time like so many people have reported, many solutions have been proposed that sometimes work temporarily but never fully.
What happens is a bit bizarre - the driver moves so much that when truly pushed with bass/sub bass they end up touching the front plastic cover and this creates very small indentations in the membrane. A few of these can disfigure the whole membrane out of place so that a part of coil wires isn't properly seated around magnet and at this point the membrane will always crackle even with moderate volume. All of this is fixable if you can open them, take the driver, gently separate membrane and gently go over wrinkles with something soft (I used a small piece of silicone from an eartip). Everything magically gets back in place.

EMX500 is amazing probably because the membrane is so light, but it's a flawed design in fact due to MX shells being.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> The BS1 is excellent once you tamper with the fit and foams but there’s some issue in tonality in the upper mids/lower treble im trying to sort out. It’s not noticeable on all tracks but once you here the ‘glare’ or compare with some other fairly neutral buds it’s obvious.
> 
> But... if you’re willing to tweak it for fit and if you can use an advanced EQ to sort to get it neutral, it’s a really really competent driver with the best depth and imaging I’ve heard at this price. My only real critique is the vocals bring a tad too relaxed, I’d prefer them to be a little more forward to separate them from the rest.
> 
> ...



Ha! Some chinks in the BS1 armour!


----------



## Slater

vladstef said:


> The two things that can be destroyed are membrane and coil wires. If it's the wires, it's fixable with regular soldering. Membrane on the other hand, small wrinkles can easily be brought back to their regular shape but other than that, nothing can be done. I've actually managed to fix 10mm graphene driver of Aulgamour RT-1 IEM but unwinding a bit of coil wires and soldering them back to the board on the back - tricky because stuff is so small but not impossible.
> 
> In fact, this gives me opportunity to give you my interaction with EMX500 drivers. They started crackling over time like so many people have reported, many solutions have been proposed that sometimes work temporarily but never fully.
> What happens is a bit bizarre - the driver moves so much that when truly pushed with bass/sub bass they end up touching the front plastic cover and this creates very small indentations in the membrane. A few of these can disfigure the whole membrane out of place so that a part of coil wires isn't properly seated around magnet and at this point the membrane will always crackle even with moderate volume. All of this is fixable if you can open them, take the driver, gently separate membrane and gently go over wrinkles with something soft (I used a small piece of silicone from an eartip). Everything magically gets back in place.
> ...



Nah, it's buggered up beyond being worth the time it would take to repair it.

If it was a more expensive set I would fix it (I've fixed full size headphone drivers in the method you described).

Luckily the PT15 is dirt cheap - I just ordered another set. I'll save the PT15 shells though (MMCX etc), and eventually throw in some drivers from Aliexpress.


----------



## HungryPanda

@Slater took the little grilles off my MS16's and I am impressed they do sound better, moar bass!!!!


----------



## Slater

HungryPanda said:


> @Slater took the little grilles off my MS16's and I am impressed they do sound better, moar bass!!!!



Yeah, really cheap upgrade! Glad you like the results 

It's a pity that they put such a restrictive grille on there that's basically decoration, yet it kills the sound.


----------



## snip3r77

Getting a gift for my buddies? Which variant of the EMX500 that I should get? Is it a step up from Vido? 
Thanks


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 15, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> Getting a gift for my buddies? Which variant of the EMX500 that I should get? Is it a step up from Vido?
> Thanks


Honestly get the vido and save yourself some cash. Some prefer one some the other, more like a sidegrade to most. I preferred the emx500 but honestly I didn’t give the vido huge time before I broke mine trying to do a cable swap. Might grab another soon just to have it in my kitbag for sports or jogging.

If you wanna get the emx500, the newer S variant is only around $2 more expensive and has gotten some positive feedback so maybe try that one.

But the novelty of having a $3 earbud that’s pretty good is a nice novelty and handy to have on hand, plus you can get the mic version of the vido assuming they will be used with smartphones (the mic version has the normal type cable).


----------



## snip3r77

seanc6441 said:


> Honestly get the vido and save yourself some cash. Some prefer one some the other, more like a sidegrade to most. I preferred the emx500 but honestly I didn’t give the vido huge time before I broke mine trying to do a cable swap. Might grab another soon just to have it in my kitbag for sports or jogging.
> 
> If you wanna get the emx500, the newer S variant is only around $2 more expensive and has gotten some positive feedback so maybe try that one.
> 
> But the novelty of having a $3 earbud that goods pretty good is nice, plus you can get the mic version of the vido assuming they will be used with smartphones (the mic version has the normal type cable).



Thanks for the quick feedback.

Opening a can of worms. What about RY4S? 
I'm ok with the vido since I'm using it, it's warm ( can listen to long hours ) and bass/sub bass is good


----------



## seanc6441

snip3r77 said:


> Thanks for the quick feedback.
> 
> Opening a can of worms. What about RY4S?
> I'm ok with the vido since I'm using it, it's warm ( can listen to long hours ) and bass/sub bass is good


Emx500 i found warmer than the vido which I found pretty neutral in tone and with more bass presence in the mid bass.

Emx500 is pretty much boosted sub bass and slightly boosted treble, with relaxed mid bass and mids.

Not sure about the S version some say more balanced others seem to contradict that view saying it’s more full and bassy.

RY4S was described as having more mid bass than emx500 with same level of warmth.

There’s the Yincrow x6 which may or may not be a vido driver with a better cable and more extras’s, although that’s said to have a bicelluose driver and im not sure if the vido has that...


----------



## Mezzi

snip3r77 said:


> Which variant of the EMX500 that I should get? Is it a step up from Vido?



The EMX500 is a big upgrade from the Vido's

- Real Sub bass
- Wider Soundstage
- Nice highs

If you're a basshead: Here (Just make sure you get the clear shell version) It's crazy, I have the black version and it lacks the bass...odd.
If you are more into classical / vocal: Here

Either one is a considerable upgrade.

Source: Me that owns almost the whole earbud collection, lol.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 15, 2018)

Mezzi said:


> The EMX500 is a big upgrade from the Vido's
> 
> - Real Sub bass
> - Wider Soundstage
> ...


hmm I had a black variant but from another seller, the bass was deep and impactful but a little slow for my liking.

High’s were crisp and fairly clear. Mids were nothing to right home about but the tonality was good.

Your advice is more relevant than mine since I have not had these earbuds on hand for months to hear them now.


----------



## Mezzi

@seanc6441 You're the king around here, you know you're crap

The black variant does have bass but not like the clear (still trying to figure that out)
Just did an A/B test with the Vido's. The Vido seemed very muddy compared to the EMX500 clear shells.

That being said, we all are into different sound signatures.

BTW..thanks for putting in a wealth of info into this thread, you da man.


----------



## seanc6441

Mezzi said:


> @seanc6441 You're the king around here, you know you're crap
> 
> The black variant does have bass but not like the clear (still trying to figure that out)
> Just did an A/B test with the Vido's. The Vido seemed very muddy compared to the EMX500 clear shells.
> ...


No I believe Sir ClieOS is the rightful king 

Thanks man, it’s basically a new hobby for me and I get invested in my hobbies lol. It’s been fun! It’s the contribution of everyone on here and the friendly attitude to new comers that makes this a special place though.

Out of curiosity have you heard the RX1 or moondrop nameless? And if so how does your emx500 clear and emxs500 compare?


----------



## Mezzi

The RX1 is a gem indeed but I always go back to either 2 earbuds

- EMX500 (clear) but that's not the best one out of the collection

I'm *REALLY* into the Snow Lotus 2.0, it's 64ohm so I have to push it a little but the payoff is amazing. MUCH cleaner the EMX and deeper bass. Mind you, I'm running this off a cheapo Sound Blaster OMNI headphone amp.

I have not tried the Moondrop.
I also have this still sealed (BS1) Waiting for my Hiby R6 to arrive. Can't wait to hear them!


----------



## vladstef

@Mezzi , if you are directly comparing EMX500 and Vido, especially if you've listened to EMX for some time, Vido will sound muddy and give an impression that it is completely lacking in treble. But if you suffer through about 10 mins with Vidos, your impression will change considerably. (still not EMX level of perceived clarity and sparkle but not a muddy mess that it sounds like when quickly comparing)

Having said this, EMX is better imho. Vido is made for people that prefer relaxed smooth sound (and hopefully bass light music, otherwise that smooth sound takes a step back to bass quantity).


----------



## chaiyuta

@Mezzi : A Viablue plug detected!! On the left-side, is it a Buddha image?

By the way, recently I look up to the rholupat website and I find DIY modded earbuds so called 'BEJO' (Edifier H180 Mod) and 'Vaijiac' (Elibud Vifth Mod). Does anyone tried them? May I know your impression?


----------



## iJay

Mezzi said:


> The RX1 is a gem indeed but I always go back to either 2 earbuds
> 
> - EMX500 (clear) but that's not the best one out of the collection
> 
> ...



Burn-in-buddies! I have done that with several buds/iem and DAP combos. Two new toys are better than one!


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

chinmie said:


> From what my friend said, it is a great sounding jakk of all trades earbuds, meaning it would work great if you listen to wide variety of music.
> I agree with @noknok23 suggestion, the samsara is another great all arounder that you should try.


Well, thats what I wanna hear thanks. Yep, listen to classical and jazz mustly but to electro and indie signers as well, so an All arounder, especially in this price range, is a MUST!


----------



## Mezzi

@chaiyuta 






Indeed. Viablue (EMX500)
The Brass Buddha assures me this is the real Zen.


----------



## snip3r77

vladstef said:


> @Mezzi , if you are directly comparing EMX500 and Vido, especially if you've listened to EMX for some time, Vido will sound muddy and give an impression that it is completely lacking in treble. But if you suffer through about 10 mins with Vidos, your impression will change considerably. (still not EMX level of perceived clarity and sparkle but not a muddy mess that it sounds like when quickly comparing)
> 
> Having said this, EMX is better imho. Vido is made for people that prefer relaxed smooth sound (and hopefully bass light music, otherwise that smooth sound takes a step back to bass quantity).



Emx500 clear is the best variant ?


----------



## Mezzi (Mar 16, 2018)

@snip3r77

Absolutely!... but don't ask me why. The cable is different from all the other ones (silver cable) which may contribute to the difference but I'm not 100%.
But there is a clear difference (no pun intended). More sub, more air, wider soundstage.

The black one with brown cable doesn't come close to the sound of the transparent.


----------



## HungryPanda

no to vido, emx500 is ok but both don't hold a candle to Seahf AWK-F64 or Faaeal Snow Lotus 2.0 64 ohm


----------



## Mezzi

HungryPanda said:


> Faaeal Snow Lotus 2.0 64 ohm



These really are amazing.


----------



## snip3r77

Mezzi said:


> These really are amazing.


Does it beat the graphene?


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 16, 2018)

Mezzi said:


> The RX1 is a gem indeed but I always go back to either 2 earbuds
> 
> - EMX500 (clear) but that's not the best one out of the collection
> 
> ...


Ohhh hiby r6! Very nice please let me know how it plays with earbuds having such a high output impendance! You know this right?

Besides there’s a simple solution of buying an ifi earbuddy/iematch to lower the output impendance to 1-2.5 ohm so it’s not a deal breaker for earbud/iem users.

Try that Bs1 overear with super thin foams 

You can try my tape mod (ask for an updated version im always improving it lol) if you aren’t getting the bud to fit/stay in place and a good seal.


----------



## seanc6441

@HungryPanda @Mezzi 

Might need to pick up these snow lotus then, see what I’m missing


----------



## snip3r77

seanc6441 said:


> @HungryPanda @Mezzi
> 
> Might need to pick up these snow lotus then, see what I’m missing


The venom is indeed powerful


----------



## seanc6441

snip3r77 said:


> The venom is indeed powerful


But are my ears up to the task lol


----------



## Mezzi

seanc6441 said:


> Very nice please let me know how it plays with earbuds having such a high output impendance!



Yeah, I knew that...rolling the dice and see if it's that big of a deal. I'll report back but it probably won't be until the end of March for me.


----------



## Mezzi

Can you even handle the Snow Lotus?


----------



## snip3r77

seanc6441 said:


> But are my ears up to the task lol


I'm sure you will enjoy it


----------



## snip3r77

Mezzi said:


> Can you even handle the Snow Lotus?



Need some insights between snow and graphene as I have one


----------



## robervaul

So, is the Snow-lotus 2.0 a new king budget?


----------



## haiku

Very nice, very nice. Oh yeah......


----------



## vladstef (Mar 16, 2018)

robervaul said:


> So, is the Snow-lotus 2.0 a new king budget?



An argument can be made about new PT15 (according to others) and I'd say Seahf 150C as well. EMX500 still hangs around but I'd rate it below 150C. Have yet to hear PT15 and Snow-lotus which are on the way to me.
I'd just like to add that 150C is a very easy to drive earbud, in fact it goes louder than EMX500. It is sensitive and honestly feels more like a 32 or even 16 Ohm buds, but it does have the higher impedance - triggers LG V20's high impedance mode (which could probably blow the drivers if you are not careful)


----------



## robervaul

vladstef said:


> An argument can be made about new PT15 (according to others) and I'd say Seahf 150C as well. EMX500 still hangs around but I'd rate it below 150C. Have yet to hear PT15 and Snow-lotus which are on the way to me.



I have the PT15 old version. I'd like to know about the significant changes.
I found the PT15 old very bass light and excessive treb for my taste.


----------



## vladstef

robervaul said:


> I have the PT15 old version. I'd like to know about the significant changes.
> I found the PT15 old very bass light and excessive treb for my taste.



Apparently it's a new driver and a little bit different venting on the back resulting in a much more balanced sound. This is only what I've read here, I still haven't heard them.


----------



## seanc6441

haiku said:


> Very nice, very nice. Oh yeah......


First impressions?


----------



## Moonstar

My latest top 10 independent form price are as follows 
1. Penon BS1 Official
2. NiceHCK EBX
3. K'S 300 Ohm Samsara Ver.
4. Rose Masya
5. DIY Graphene (Black Housing)
6. Shozy BK
7. Hifi BOY Dream
8. VE Zen 2.0 (Standard)
9. Ourart Ti7
10. DIY PK2


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 16, 2018)

Moonstar said:


> My latest top 10 independent form price are as follows
> 1. Penon BS1 Official
> 2. NiceHCK EBX
> 3. K'S 300 Ohm Samsara Ver.
> ...


This is in order of preference right?

Surprised the BK is lowish, did you try the donuts? Although I'm guessing you prefer brighter earbuds judging by the top 10 placements.

I found a new love for my Masya a few days ago when I ditched thick foams for super thin aliexpress foams + paper filter. It´s so clean and light, smoother than before but keeping detail/texture you lose with the stock foams.

I wouldn't call it bright anymore, it gives the feeling of a dark earbud but is clear and clean sounding like a bright bud, hard to explain- but so easy to listen to 

Overall it just sounds neutral and transparent with only a hint of warmth/darkness. So good now and no real fatigue compared to without the paper filter where the sound with thin foams was murderously bright.


----------



## waynes world

Moonstar said:


> My latest top 10 independent form price are as follows
> 1. Penon BS1 Official
> 2. NiceHCK EBX
> 3. K'S 300 Ohm Samsara Ver.
> ...



Nice list! I only have 2 of those, but I concur with your rankings (of those two at least lol!)


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 16, 2018)

waynes world said:


> Nice list! I only have 2 of those, but I concur with your rankings (of those two at least lol!)


I honestly couldn't pick between my masya bk and bs1 now. Depends on my mood and the genre, all do different things amazingly. Masya is in my ears now listening to London Grammer, a perfect match for euphoric vocals and extended deep bass and clear high´s. Airy and atmospheric is my best description of the sound here.


----------



## Moonstar

seanc6441 said:


> This is in order of preference right?
> 
> Surprised the BK is lowish, did you try the donuts? Although I'm guessing you prefer brighter earbuds judging by the top 10 placements.
> 
> ...



Yes, you are right I prefer earbuds with clear and transparent presentation. But I thinking that the first 4 earbuds are very good in detail and the Rose Masya is my first love, LOL. The downside of the Masya is the fit that is a bit annoying for me. Ah, and thanks for your advice with the Foams


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> I honestly couldn't pick between my masya bk and bs1 now. Depends on my mood and the genre, all do different things amazingly.



It's great that you have those to enjoy, and that you enjoy them all.



> Masya is in my ears now listening to London Grammer, a perfect match for euphoric vocals and extended deep bass and clear high´s. Airy and atmospheric is my best description of the sound here.



London Grammar is good, but it's too bad that the vocalist is so weak:



Just kidding of course. Hannah Reid's voice, and that song, always give me goosebumps.


----------



## Moonstar

waynes world said:


> Nice list! I only have 2 of those, but I concur with your rankings (of those two at least lol!)



Thank you mate


----------



## AmericanEDC

Moonstar said:


> My latest top 10 independent form price are as follows
> 1. Penon BS1 Official
> 2. NiceHCK EBX
> 3. K'S 300 Ohm Samsara Ver.
> ...



Just wondering why TOTL wasn't written next to each of these; If I'm to understand its use on this thread?

I'm making a stupid joke.....but when is it that someone types TOTL next to these models?


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> It's great that you have those to enjoy, and that you enjoy them all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was about shake my head in disapproval when you said ‘weak’ but then read the final sentence 

My favourite female vocalist isn’t even a star yet, but damn if her voice isn’t just perfection to my ears


and she covers pink floyd too...


----------



## H.L.

AmericanEDC said:


> Just wondering why TOTL wasn't written next to each of these; If I'm to understand its use on this thread?
> 
> I'm making a stupid joke.....but when is it that someone types TOTL next to these models?




EBX is not shown in your photo.
I like EBX better than BS1 !
Both are the best earphones.


----------



## Moonstar

H.L. said:


> EBX is not shown in your photo.
> I like EBX better than BS1 !
> Both are the best earphones.


This is a matter of personal preferences, I like the EBX and I was really surprised how transparent it sounds. But the BS1 Official has additional warmth and fullness that was missing on the EBX.


----------



## seanc6441

It’s just a label, like how some cars are called ‘supercars’, it’s more subjective term than a clear definition to us.


----------



## seanc6441

Moonstar said:


> This is a matter of personal preferences, I like the EBX and I was really surprised how transparent it sounds. But the BS1 Official has additional warmth and fullness that was missing on the EBX.


Is the ebx more like the masya then? clear and ‘light’? Although I know the masya is kind of warm sound too thanks to the bass driver.


----------



## Moonstar

AmericanEDC said:


> Just wondering why TOTL wasn't written next to each of these; If I'm to understand its use on this thread?
> 
> I'm making a stupid joke.....but when is it that someone types TOTL next to these models?



All of this listed earbuds are TOTL for me because they are performing much much better than many IEM's that have twice the price


----------



## Moonstar (Mar 16, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Is the ebx more like the masya then? clear and ‘light’? Although I know the masya is kind of warm sound too thanks to the bass driver.



The Masya sound's fuller in the midrange than BS1 and EBX. The EBX sound's more transparent than Masya in in this area but has not enough body and warmth. The BS1 is in the middle right between the Masya and EBX. BTW, BS1 has additional micro detail what is very good for a price tag of 99 USD, especially for such a great cable and premium package.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 16, 2018)

Moonstar said:


> The Masya sound's fuller in the midrange than BS1 and EBX. The EBX sound's more transparent than Masya in in this area but has not enough body and warmth. The BS1 is in the middle right between the Masya and EBX. BTW, BS1 has additional micro detail what is very good for a price tag of 99 USD, especially for such a great cable and premium package.


Interesting, to my ears the BS1 is fuller than masya, but the tonality is more neutral and the masya is more warm/musical. They have comparable low end fullness but the masya is a little more extended, masya has more powerful high frequencies but it’s not night and day difference. But for midrange vocals especially I think the BS1 is more weighty but relaxed, masya lighter and more upfront presence.

I’d gladly take a combination of masya tonality and forward vocals with BS1 smoothness, deep vocal body and depth/layering.

of course the shozy bk dominates them both with ease for vocal body and texture it’s on a whole other level, but doesn’t have the soundstage to make it ‘grand’ sounding. It’s an intimate lush vocal presentation.

But as it is they both do things well in a different manner on my V20.


----------



## Moonstar

seanc6441 said:


> Interesting, to my ears the BS1 is fuller than masya, but the tonality is more neutral and the masya is more warm/musical. They have comparable low end fullness but the masya is a little more extended, masya has more powerful high frequencies but it’s not night and day difference. But for midrange vocals especially I think the BS1 is more weighty but relaxed, masya lighter and more upfront presence.
> 
> I’d gladly take a combination of masya tonality and forward vocals with BS1 smoothness, deep vocal body and depth/layering.
> 
> ...


Great description and comparison! The sound of earbuds are very fit depending, I have not so good experiences with it that could change the sound drastically


----------



## HungryPanda

Well I have just enjoyed those two videos with the NiceHCK EBX in my ears


----------



## seanc6441

@ClieOS If you have the time, or whenever you are free, could you measure the rose masya the same way you did the BS1? I’m trying to find where the BS1 is sounding ‘off’ and I know it’s somewhere in the upper mid/lower treble that’s either sucked out or emphasised that sounds artificial but I have nothing to compare it too. The masya sounds pretty natural if a little bright but would serve as an ideal guideline as it’s very well extended.

Is it too much to ask for a frequency chart for the masya? I’ll be forever in your debt! lol


----------



## seanc6441

Moonstar said:


> Great description and comparison! *The sound of earbuds are very fit depending*, I have not so good experiences with it that could change the sound drastically


Truer words have never been spoken! This X 1000!!!


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Interesting, to my ears the BS1 is fuller than masya, but the tonality is more neutral and the masya is more warm/musical. They have comparable low end fullness but the masya is a little more extended, masya has more powerful high frequencies but it’s not night and day difference. But for midrange vocals especially I think the BS1 is more weighty but relaxed, masya lighter and more upfront presence.
> 
> I’d gladly take a combination of masya tonality and forward vocals with BS1 smoothness, deep vocal body and depth/layering.
> 
> ...



When is someone going to create a BS1/Masya/BK love child?


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> Well I have just enjoyed those two videos with the NiceHCK EBX in my ears



And I just listened to London Grammar's "Truth Is a Beautiful Thing" album with the snow lotus 2.0. Very nice.


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> When is someone going to create a BS1/Masya/BK love child?





waynes world said:


> When is someone going to create a BS1/Masya/BK love child?


When I start my own earbud company I’ll be sure to release such a product xD


----------



## chinmie

Moonstar said:


> My latest top 10 independent form price are as follows
> 1. Penon BS1 Official
> 2. NiceHCK EBX
> 3. K'S 300 Ohm Samsara Ver.
> ...



Nice list! My personal top three would be
1.K'S 300 Ohm Samsara Ver.
2. Shozy BK
3. Rose Masya


----------



## silverfishla

Thanks guys and gals for that recommendation for those 100 earbud foams for a $1 on Ali!  Man those things sound terrific!  Makes all the buds I’ve tried them on more airy and articulate.  Love em, going to buy some more.
They are are hard to put on without ripping them, as they seem to have less elasticity, but worth it.  I think I ripped 8 of them trying to put them on the very squirrly PMV’s.  A lot of them are also not correctly center punched.  For a $1 though, I don’t care.  Monk pack costs $4 and I only like the thin ones there, so it’s a deal to me!


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> And I just listened to London Grammar's "Truth Is a Beautiful Thing" album with the snow lotus 2.0. Very nice.



You and @HungryPanda , haven't you heard? I'm downsizing here! Stop tempting me with new buds! 
But seriously, which is better, snow lotus or the Seahf 150c? And how do they compare to the ourart, Svara L, and MK2?


----------



## groucho69

seanc6441 said:


> I was about shake my head in disapproval when you said ‘weak’ but then read the final sentence
> 
> My favourite female vocalist isn’t even a star yet, but damn if her voice isn’t just perfection to my ears
> 
> ...




Amazing talent.


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> You and @HungryPanda , haven't you heard? I'm downsizing here! Stop tempting me with new buds!
> But seriously, which is better, snow lotus or the Seahf 150c? And how do they compare to the ourart, Svara L, and MK2?



I'm pretty sure I prefer the 150c's by a bit, but I need to find them to be sure. I dug out what I thought were the 150c's, but it turns out I dig out the Beta Asura's (which I am now happily listening to lol). Which begs the question - where are my darned 150c's??? Stay calm Wayne, stay calm...


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 16, 2018)

groucho69 said:


> Amazing talent.


Yes and she has released her first album it’s on spotify. Although I like her covers because they are so different than the originals. Taking great songs and adding a new twist to them.



chinmie said:


> Nice list! My personal top three would be
> 1.K'S 300 Ohm Samsara Ver.
> 2. Shozy BK
> 3. Rose Masya


What about your liebesleid? Are you forgetting about it or is it really not in your top 3?


----------



## groucho69

seanc6441 said:


> Yes and she has released her first album it’s on spotify. Although I like her covers because they are so different than the originals. Taking great songs and adding a new twist to them.
> 
> 
> What about your liebesleid? Are you forgetting about it or is it really not in your top 3?



She makes them her own, Pixies, Kate Bush, Pink Floyd, Joy Division, Lorde, Queen....so many more and all fantastic.


----------



## iJay

groucho69 said:


> She makes them her own, Pixies, Kate Bush, Pink Floyd, Joy Division, Lorde, Queen....so many more and all fantastic.



Pixies! I just thought of them a couple days ago. Not listened to them in years. I’ll need to check out her covers.


----------



## HungryPanda

chinmie said:


> You and @HungryPanda , haven't you heard? I'm downsizing here! Stop tempting me with new buds!
> But seriously, which is better, snow lotus or the Seahf 150c? And how do they compare to the ourart, Svara L, and MK2?


 I would have to give it to the Seahf 150's as well. Willsound Mk2's are better than Snow Lotus imo


----------



## ctaxxxx

I see the Liebesleid (2.5mm) is back in stock on Amazon, but Shenzhen Audio really jacked up the price... Are there no other cheaper listings?


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Yes and she has released her first album it’s on spotify. Although I like her covers because they are so different than the originals. Taking great songs and adding a new twist to them.
> 
> 
> What about your liebesleid? Are you forgetting about it or is it really not in your top 3?



from that list only 
if based on my personal experience  then:
1. Liebesleid
2. Yinman 600 (or Yinman 500 with 100ohm impedance adapter, they sounded a bit similar, but still different) 
3. Puresound PS100-500 classic
4. K's Samsara
5. Diomnes Lv2 

my friend have a modded  Tunes V1 (yuin styled earbud)  that can easily take number 2, but it's discontinued and can only be acquired in my country, so no point on talking about it


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> I'm pretty sure I prefer the 150c's by a bit, but I need to find them to be sure. I dug out what I thought were the 150c's, but it turns out I dig out the Beta Asura's (which I am now happily listening to lol). Which begs the question - where are my darned 150c's??? Stay calm Wayne, stay calm...



It's hiding to take a break, and let the other buds a play time chance 



HungryPanda said:


> I would have to give it to the Seahf 150's as well. Willsound Mk2's are better than Snow Lotus imo



what about the 150C to the MK2?


----------



## HungryPanda

chinmie said:


> It's hiding to take a break, and let the other buds a play time chance
> 
> 
> 
> what about the 150C to the MK2?


Both are different in sound i would be happy with either


----------



## chaiyuta

Frequency Response Graph is good for preliminary to know its sound tendency, but it is not identical to real-life individual. 
First, a source is effect to SQ. Changing a source, FR graph will alter. Otherwise nobody seek for better sources. 
Second, the fitting on pseudo-ears measurement device is not the same as individual ears (both external and internal), except custom IEMs which go deep until the second-turn of the ear canal. In case of earbuds, any air-leak affects to overall SQ. 
Third, the sensitivity of measurement (so called 'mic' specs). Any earphones that got 'Hires-Audio' logo cause they use high specs of 'mic' to get something beyond 20kHz.


----------



## zeta555

anyone got their hand on the simphonio dragon 2+ yet? any reviews? I'm bored with my buds, looking for some new toys


----------



## golov17

zeta555 said:


> anyone got their hand on the simphonio dragon 2+ yet? any reviews? I'm bored with my buds, looking for some new toys


Not yet


----------



## zeta555

golov17 said:


> Not yet


did you order one? how about the old one, is it still any good?


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 16, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> Frequency Response Graph is good for preliminary to know its sound tendency, but it is not identical to real-life individual.
> First, a source is effect to SQ. Changing a source, FR graph will alter. Otherwise nobody seek for better sources.
> Second, the fitting on pseudo-ears measurement device is not the same as individual ears (both external and internal), except custom IEMs which go deep until the second-turn of the ear canal. In case of earbuds, any air-leak affects to overall SQ.
> Third, the sensitivity of measurement (so called 'mic' specs). Any earphones that got 'Hires-Audio' logo cause they use high specs of 'mic' to get something beyond 20kHz.


You’re definitely right, I used the measurements as a rough estimate to find areas to ‘target’ with a wide quality on Equalizer APO.

I changed the following...

200hz -0.3db Q=0.5
2400khz -0.3db Q=4
4600khz +0.6 Q=4
7500khz +1.5db Q=3
12500khz -0.3db Q=5

this was done on my laptop is a rough estimate in taming and bumping certain region to balance the graph @ClieOS provided.

It was pretty successful to my ears, the sound is more natural now, similar to my shozy cygnus without the mid bass bloat and with better extension and better clarity. I trust shozy’s tuning to be fairy natural and used that and my masya to compare against the bs1 on my laptop to prove to myself this odd tonality wasn’t imagined... It wasn’t. But now it’s just nice to my ears as I wanted it to be.

Honestly I’m content with this as that annoying glare is completely gone.


----------



## golov17

zeta555 said:


> did you order one? how about the old one, is it still any good?


absolutely new driver, not titanium, like old ones. Another sound should be, although I have not heard yet..


----------



## zeta555

golov17 said:


> absolutely new driver, not titanium, like old ones. Another sound should be, although I have not heard yet..


yeah that's what I'm curious about, although I hate that earbud shell. a $300 earbud should use a better earbud shell, and not look like a $15 earbud. IMHO.


----------



## seanc6441

zeta555 said:


> yeah that's what I'm curious about, although I hate that earbud shell. a $300 earbud should use a better earbud shell, and not look like a $15 earbud. IMHO.


Yuin PK shell is awesome for comfort though, at least to me. Love that shell lol!


----------



## zeta555

seanc6441 said:


> Yuin PK shell is awesome for comfort though, at least to me. Love that shell lol!


yeah, it's pretty comfortable. but pk1 was released in what? 2005/2006? more than a decade. I'm sure they can come up with something better. especially for high end buds. just like moondrop line and new k's buds.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 16, 2018)

zeta555 said:


> yeah, it's pretty comfortable. but pk1 was released in what? 2005/2006? more than a decade. I'm sure they can come up with something better. especially for high end buds. just like moondrop line and new k's buds.


True, but there’s been weight/fit complaints about those buds. Why change something that’s not broken?

If the pk shell had a flaw I’d understand but currently it’s still one of the most comfortable and convenient designs. Literally the only downside is it cannot fit 15.6 drivers.


----------



## golov17

zeta555 said:


> yeah that's what I'm curious about, although I hate that earbud shell. a $300 earbud should use a better earbud shell, and not look like a $15 earbud. IMHO.


Like this?


----------



## zeta555

seanc6441 said:


> True, but there’s been weight/fit complaints about those buds. Why change something that’s not broken?
> 
> If the pk shell had a flaw I’d understand but currently it’s still one of the most comfortable and convenient designs. Literally the only downside is it cannot fit 15.6 drivers.



other downside, it looks cheap.



golov17 said:


> Like this?


now this is better. I saw this one in the fb group. it's silver right? or is it only silver paint?


----------



## golov17

@zeta555 
https://m.facebook.com/Lamia-Earbud...notif_t=feedback_reaction_generic&__tn__=*s-R


----------



## zeta555

golov17 said:


> @zeta555
> https://m.facebook.com/Lamia-Earbud-834568340064135?refid=18&ref=m_notif&notif_t=feedback_reaction_generic&__tn__=*s-R


that's interesting, thanks for the info!


----------



## chinmie

zeta555 said:


> other downside, it looks cheap.
> 
> 
> now this is better. I saw this one in the fb group. it's silver right? or is it only silver paint?



I think it's pure silver, like your poseidon


----------



## chaiyuta

@zeta555 : Agreed. They should create their own housing while still keep the same O.D. size of front cover likes others did. Create their new mold rather than be a copycat and save up the mold cost.


----------



## seanc6441

zeta555 said:


> other downside, it looks cheap.
> 
> 
> now this is better. I saw this one in the fb group. it's silver right? or is it only silver paint?


I don’t think it looked cheap on the shozy bk with matte black paint. It looks classic yes, not very modern but cheap, eh I find it fine.

Although I do love the look of the liebesleid aswell. Beautiful looking earbud.


----------



## zeta555

chinmie said:


> I think it's pure silver, like your poseidon



yeah, that earbud looks super interesting! 



chaiyuta said:


> @zeta555 : Agreed. They should create their own housing while still keep the same O.D. size of front cover likes others did. Create their new mold rather than be a copycat and save up the mold cost.



right? at least make it detachable or something.



seanc6441 said:


> I don’t think it looked cheap on the shozy bk with matte black paint. It looks classic yes, not very modern but cheap, eh I find it fine.
> 
> Although I do love the look of the liebesleid aswell. Beautiful looking earbud.


all I'm saying is they should spend some of the budget on looks as well. add detachable cable. use better materials. earbud is getting expensive very fast,  at least make it look good. 

i met with a couple of earbud enthusiasts in my country, most of their buds use either yuin or ve shell. when I ask which is which, it always take them a couple of seconds to recognize their own earbuds. sometime they even guess wrong. why? the buds all look the same.


----------



## chaiyuta

zeta555 said:


> right? at least make it detachable or something.



Exactly, if they can provide 2-pin detachable housing and still keep the same form factor size is a plus. Do more R&D on housing material. Unlike the IEM market, I have seen many models have specific housing, for instance, Acoustune HS1551CU, and much more.


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> @ClieOS If you have the time, or whenever you are free, could you measure the rose masya the same way you did the BS1? I’m trying to find where the BS1 is sounding ‘off’ and I know it’s somewhere in the upper mid/lower treble that’s either sucked out or emphasised that sounds artificial but I have nothing to compare it too. The masya sounds pretty natural if a little bright but would serve as an ideal guideline as it’s very well extended.
> 
> Is it too much to ask for a frequency chart for the masya? I’ll be forever in your debt! lol


----------



## ClieOS

zeta555 said:


> anyone got their hand on the simphonio dragon 2+ yet? any reviews? I'm bored with my buds, looking for some new toys



I am hoping to receive mine in a week or two. AFAIK Simphonio is pretty busy but they should be able to ship mine out soonish (if not already).



zeta555 said:


> yeah, it's pretty comfortable. but pk1 was released in what? 2005/2006? more than a decade. I'm sure they can come up with something better. especially for high end buds. just like moondrop line and new k's buds.



Actually, that particular housing, which is often being referred as the PK housing, is not even Yuin's own design. It was originated from Japan and used on a few NTT Docomo's headset in the old days, probably all the way back to the late 90s.


----------



## chinmie

zeta555 said:


> yeah, that earbud looks super interesting!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



yes, i agree. for me the benchmark is **** PT15. they can make buds with detachable cable and material like that for only $10. more expensive maker should have no excuse


----------



## jogawag (Mar 17, 2018)

ClieOS said:


>



It is very similar to Mojito's FR-Graph found in Head-fi's "Rose Technology ..." thread.


----------



## ClieOS

Lo and behold...



 

...and a full view.


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


>


You the man ClieOS!

This is awesome! @jogawag you’re right they are close enough. The Mojito is a little ‘smoother’ but really the response is pretty similar overall.


----------



## jogawag (Mar 17, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> Lo and behold...
> 
> 
> 
> ...and a full view.



Hi @ClieOS  I see that you have got both Shozy BK and Shozy BK Blue, can you make a comparison about the two? Thanks!


----------



## Majin

HungryPanda said:


> no to vido, emx500 is ok but both don't hold a candle to Seahf AWK-F64 or Faaeal Snow Lotus 2.0 64 ohm



Can you describe the sound signature of the seahf AWK-F64?


----------



## HungryPanda

Majin said:


> Can you describe the sound signature of the seahf AWK-F64?


 I love the bass on the Seahf AWK-F64 and mids (guitars and vocals) are terrific, the highs are ok not too bright


----------



## iJay

HungryPanda said:


> I love the bass on the Seahf AWK-F64 and mids (guitars and vocals) are terrific, the highs are ok not too bright



Thanks for that! Sounds up my alley. Are the 150 ohm about the same?


----------



## LukeVivolo

Hello. I have an opportunity to buy a broken pair of Zen V1's. I am thinking that they just need to be re-cabled, but I am not sure. Has anyone had the drivers on the zen v1 fail? Also, can anyone recommend someone who could re-cable them? I don't really trust myself to do it. Thanks!


----------



## HungryPanda

iJay said:


> Thanks for that! Sounds up my alley. Are the 150 ohm about the same?


 The Seahf 150's are even better to me


----------



## chaiyuta

@LukeVivolo : Where do you live? If the voice coil of drivers are disconnected, there are probably no way to fix. If you lucky enough that it is soldering issue of cables at the back of drivers, a repair guy could easily fix for you.


----------



## chaiyuta

I look up to the FAAEAL taobao site and I find FAAEAL Narcissus (水仙) 2.0 300-Ohm. Is it released for a long time or just released?


----------



## LukeVivolo

chaiyuta said:


> @LukeVivolo : Where do you live? If the voice coil of drivers are disconnected, there are probably no way to fix. If you lucky enough that it is soldering issue of cables at the back of drivers, a repair guy could easily fix for you.


I am in Florida. I have experience soldering, but I am more afraid of damaging the drivers when I take them apart. I don't know if they are held together with glue or something. I guess that the voice coils and the cable are the only possible points of failure. I was more looking for someone with experience in modding/recabling earbuds.


----------



## doggiemom

haiku said:


> This is what I´ve got from Herry about the burn in time for the Zoomfred: Quote "I've said 150 hours is minimum burn in time.... Based on the cryogenic specification they will required over than 300 hours to stabilize. Min 150 is my experience on the cryogenic cable for headphone."  So be prepared all you, who ordered them.


I received these last week.  The positives:
- Cable covering is thick and heavy, but the lack of coating after the split allows them to not fall out of my ears when moving around (unlike the CAX Black)
- Sound stage is wonderful for a bud - excellent separation and imaging
- Very detailed, as all of Herry's buds seem to be
- Nice case, and CAX/Cypherus branding on the shells, splitter, and connector - I think that these little details set Herry's stuff apart from other DIY'ers in that they look professional

But you are correct in that the treble is very bright.  I wouldn't say sibilant, but definitely bright.  Initially, that was the case with the Campfred 2s, but I do think that the highs mellowed over time, and now those are very enjoyable.  So I suspect that the same will happen with the Zoom Fred.  It does seem that a lot of people equate bright with detailed, so these will likely appeal to those who like a sound signature like the graphenes.

So far I would say Black>Campfred 2> Zoom Fred, but I prefer a neutral to warm sound, and in fairness have not had the Zoom Freds long enough for more than a preliminary judgement.


----------



## chaiyuta

@LukeVivolo : I have no idea who can repair it in Florida. But in my country, B_Rabbithifi is a notable repair shop one. Many foreigners sent their lovely earbuds for modding. Hope this helps.


----------



## LukeVivolo

chaiyuta said:


> @LukeVivolo : I have no idea who can repair it in Florida. But in my country, B_Rabbithifi is a notable repair shop one. Many foreigners sent their lovely earbuds for modding. Hope this helps.


Thanks!


----------



## theresanarc

After several months of usage, I have to say that I definetely prefer my Qian39's (or were they 25, whichever one was small) compared to the VE Monks (which are still great). I haven't really checked the forum lately though, any other earbuds in that cheap price range worth checking out that work well without a preamp?


----------



## ClieOS

jogawag said:


> Hi @ClieOS  I see that you have got both Shozy BK and Shozy BK Blue, can you make a comparison about the two? Thanks!



I want to put in at least a couple of days worth of burn in first before judging BK blue - however, given the initial impression I'll say the difference is really much more subtle than the price would suggest (and remember BK blue is 2x the price). So if you already own a BK, I don't think there is any rush for a BK blue at the moment.


----------



## Raketen (Mar 18, 2018)

LukeVivolo said:


> I am in Florida. I have experience soldering, but I am more afraid of damaging the drivers when I take them apart. I don't know if they are held together with glue or something. I guess that the voice coils and the cable are the only possible points of failure. I was more looking for someone with experience in modding/recabling earbuds.



Suggest asking Alpha421 (Triton Audio Cables) or Peterek both here on H-F, both are US located, do recabling repair & mods. Though if it's actual driver damage probably not much that can be done.

IDK if the Zen 1 is constructed same way but on Asura and Zen 2 drivers are attached/glued to the speaker grille which snaps on to the body and I think has some glue- I didn't have too much trouble prying it off directly but there is always risk of damage- there's an Earbud Modding thread around here somewhere that might have good advice too.


----------



## LukeVivolo

Raketen said:


> Suggest asking Alpha421 (Triton Audio Cables) or Peterek both here on H-F, both are US located, do recabling repair & mods. Though if it's actual driver damage probably not much that can be done.
> 
> IDK if the Zen 1 is constructed same way but on Asura and Zen 2 drivers are attached/glued to the speaker grille which snaps on to the body and I think has some glue- I didn't have too much trouble prying it off directly but there is always risk of damage- there's an Earbud Modding thread around here somewhere that might have good advice too.


Thanks for the tip! I will check out the modding thread. Thanks!


----------



## Guggga

HungryPanda said:


> The Seahf 150's are even better to me


How do they compare to the willsound MK2? Are they brighter or warmew in comparison? Hows the Soundstage, is it immersive and 3D like the willsound? Do they sound big and thick like the willsound?

Soery about so many questions!


----------



## j4100

chaiyuta said:


> I look up to the FAAEAL taobao site and I find FAAEAL Narcissus (水仙) 2.0 300-Ohm. Is it released for a long time or just released?



I noticed reviews going back to Nov 2017 on the Faaeal Ali page


----------



## ClieOS (Mar 18, 2018)

j4100 said:


> I noticed reviews going back to Nov 2017 on the Faaeal Ali page



I posted the picture of it on the first page in this thread around mid-July 2016, so it does go a bit further more.


----------



## Kukuster

hey guys! Is there any good *neutral* sound earbuds? Some earbuds with highly notable neutrality.


----------



## doggiemom

Someone posted this link in the ORA GrapheneQ thread:
https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...91e8377/1518732111103/AX-February-2018_GA.pdf
Interesting article; talks about the approaches used by different companies to create a transducer using graphene, and the difficulties of shaping graphene into a driver.  Given the difficulties of working with the graphene, I wonder if the ChiFi companies selling graphene earbuds are truly using graphene, or if their drivers just contain some carbon and not the true allotrope?  

Graphene drivers still seem very much in the development stage (even ORA's product is a 95% graphene composite), so I would be curious to know if the DIY graphene buds contain graphene at all, and if so, what percentage.


----------



## seanc6441

Kukuster said:


> hey guys! Is there any good *neutral* sound earbuds? Some earbuds with highly notable neutrality.


Price range?


----------



## silverfishla

doggiemom said:


> Someone posted this link in the ORA GrapheneQ thread:
> https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...91e8377/1518732111103/AX-February-2018_GA.pdf
> Interesting article; talks about the approaches used by different companies to create a transducer using graphene, and the difficulties of shaping graphene into a driver.  Given the difficulties of working with the graphene, I wonder if the ChiFi companies selling graphene earbuds are truly using graphene, or if their drivers just contain some carbon and not the true allotrope?
> 
> Graphene drivers still seem very much in the development stage (even ORA's product is a 95% graphene composite), so I would be curious to know if the DIY graphene buds contain graphene at all, and if so, what percentage.


I believe that the drivers are not a composite of graphene, but an application of the dust onto the driver, like a coating. I read an article on this type of application, but I can't seem to find it. Then again, we can't really be sure what the process is for making these components that we are buying from Ali, unless someone here has actually seen the manufacturing process or can track down the plant that makes them.


----------



## Kukuster

seanc6441 said:


> Price range?


Something for $40-150 for devices with not high power output (smartphone, laptop etc.)


----------



## doggiemom

silverfishla said:


> I believe that the drivers are not a composite of graphene, but an application of the dust onto the driver, like a coating. I read an article on this type of application, but I can't seem to find it. Then again, we can't really be sure what the process is for making these components that we are buying from Ali, unless someone here has actually seen the manufacturing process or can track down the plant that makes them.


Please don't spend time looking, but if you do stumble across the article again I would love to read it.  (My background is chemistry, though now I'm a glorified plumber/oil change tech/cleaning monkey).  I'm skeptical of the graphene claims from Ali stores.......


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 18, 2018)

Kukuster said:


> Something for $40-150 for devices with not high power output (smartphone, laptop etc.)



Ok so at the top end of your budget you have the *Shozy bk.* It’s what I would consider a neutral signature with a lean towards analog sound (Neutral-Slightly warm tonality, low mids are full-lush but not too heavy sounding, has nice airy treble. Tonality is pretty much perfect to my ears, being kind of ‘dry’ reference sounding but musical at the same time. Only downside is a more upfront and intimate soundstage, but the imaging is accurate and separation is clean.

Mid budget would be the *Penon BS1. *Now to me this is very neutral and balanced and the tonality isn’t swayed towards warm or cold, it’s just very neutral. One caveat though is I found these to sound the most natural and neutral with some mild EQ to fix tonality slightly. But overall is a very detail and balanced signature with a smooth but also textured presentation. Soundstage is spacious and imaging is excellent portraying a 3D depth and width.

Budget wise I suggest the *Auglamour RX1 *which can also be EQed slightly for an astonishingly smooth detailed and balanced response this price (around $25). For me nothing comes close in detail at this price, but sadly there are better extended earbuds with a more exciting sound maybe. But the RX1 has solid imaging and soundstage with the right foams and is a good all rounder with excellent build quality.

These are the buds I’ve heard and used at different price ranges that stood out as very neutral/balanced with a slight lean towards certain sound signatures, but overall I consider them as neutral earbuds. All are easily driven from mobile sources.

Other notable mentions which I have not heard: Yincrow RW777, Moondrop Nameless, Moondrop VX Pro, Rholupat Willsound MK2/MK3.


----------



## Raketen (Mar 18, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> Please don't spend time looking, but if you do stumble across the article again I would love to read it.  (My background is chemistry, though now I'm a glorified plumber/oil change tech/cleaning monkey).  I'm skeptical of the graphene claims from Ali stores.......



It may not be used in headphones but  I think the CVD process is a common way to make graphene? I read this article recently which describes a similar technique, though it's not being used in manufacturing yet AFAIK https://phys.org/news/2018-03-method-large-single-crystal-graphene-advance.html


----------



## vladstef (Mar 18, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> Someone posted this link in the ORA GrapheneQ thread:
> https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...91e8377/1518732111103/AX-February-2018_GA.pdf
> Interesting article; talks about the approaches used by different companies to create a transducer using graphene, and the difficulties of shaping graphene into a driver.  Given the difficulties of working with the graphene, I wonder if the ChiFi companies selling graphene earbuds are truly using graphene, or if their drivers just contain some carbon and not the true allotrope?
> 
> Graphene drivers still seem very much in the development stage (even ORA's product is a 95% graphene composite), so I would be curious to know if the DIY graphene buds contain graphene at all, and if so, what percentage.



100% graphene diaphragms do not exist as far as I know (not consumer grade, certainly as prototypes still in development). Any 'graphene' drivers out there are just using a coating on top of a regular membrane which isn't graphene at all and is somewhat misleading. The proper term would be graphite coating, because graphene is just one atom thick layer of graphite.
Anyways, there are many drivers of all sizes that use 'graphene' coating and they all use word graphene because it's better suited for marketing. As far as I can tell, there are many coatings that you can apply to a plastic membrane, including titanium and beryllium as prime examples.


----------



## Majin

HungryPanda said:


> The Seahf 150's are even better to me



Worth triple the price? or should i just go for the 64 since you said they were better than  the emx500.


----------



## doggiemom

vladstef said:


> 100% graphene diaphragms do not exist as far as I know (not consumer grade, certainly as prototypes still in development). Any 'graphene' drivers out there are just using a coating on top of a regular membrane which isn't graphene at all and is somewhat misleading. The proper term would be graphite coating, because graphene is just one atom thick layer of graphite.
> Anyways, there are many drivers of all sizes that use 'graphene' coating and they all use word graphene because it's better suited for marketing. As far as I can tell, there are many coatings that you can apply to a plastic membrane, including titanium and beryllium as prime examples.


Exactly, it seems that some companies are just using graphene as a buzzword to make sales, when technically their products don't incorporate graphene and therefore don't benefit from its physical properties.  It's like selling pencil leads as diamonds.....   (both allotropes of carbon).


----------



## HungryPanda

Majin said:


> Worth triple the price? or should i just go for the 64 since you said they were better than  the emx500.


 You would like the Seahf 64's I am sure


----------



## kw8910

Majin said:


> Worth triple the price? or should i just go for the 64 since you said they were better than  the emx500.



Put it this way, is the $10-12 in savings worth wondering what you're missing on the 150s?

I don't have the 64s but it looks like the rubber cable is microphonic and the 150s are braided nicely so that is another consideration. I'm listening to the Seahf 150s right now and it's quite satisfying, nice soundstage and bass (without being too punchy) for an earbud.


----------



## mbwilson111

kw8910 said:


> I don't have the 64s but it looks like the rubber cable is microphonic and the 150s are braided nicely so that is another consideration. I'm listening to the Seahf 150s right now and it's quite satisfying, nice soundstage and bass (without being too punchy) for an earbud.



I love the cable on my Seahf 150.  Looks beautiful and is comfortable as well.


----------



## kw8910

mbwilson111 said:


> I love the cable on my Seahf 150.  Looks beautiful and is comfortable as well.


 Gives it a more premium feel for sure..


----------



## vladstef

+1 for the premium feel of Seahf 150C. Very soft cables that don't have kinks, glossy black color with perfect finish - very nice package that feels more premium than EMX500 for example that it competes with. I actually like the feel of 150C more than Auglamour RX-1, the cables of RX-1 are not comparable to 150C.


----------



## seanc6441

Majin said:


> Worth triple the price? or should i just go for the 64 since you said they were better than  the emx500.


That’s always a tricky question. Is the shozy bk worth 10 times the price of the diy pk2? I guess it comes down to how much you value each small improvement in SQ.


vladstef said:


> +1 for the premium feel of Seahf 150C. Very soft cables that don't have kinks, glossy black color with perfect finish - very nice package that feels more premium than EMX500 for example that it competes with. I actually like the feel of 150C more than Auglamour RX-1, the cables of RX-1 are not comparable to 150C.


RX1 cable is a very grippy rubbery feel, although it’s the shell of the rx1 that’s superior. Need more metal shell and braided/high quality cable earbuds


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> RX1 cable is a very grippy rubbery feel, although it’s the shell of the rx1 that’s superior. Need more metal shell and braided/high quality cable earbuds



Yes, the rx1 shell does fit me a little better than the seahf 150 but I am able to get a fit with the 150.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Yes, the rx1 shell does fit me a little better than the seahf 150 but I am able to get a fit with the 150.


Well I meant in build quality but the fit is nice too because of it’s size, it’s a pleasure to use them after using bigger shells.


----------



## chinmie

Majin said:


> Worth triple the price? or should i just go for the 64 since you said they were better than  the emx500.





kw8910 said:


> Put it this way, is the $10-12 in savings worth wondering what you're missing on the 150s?
> 
> I don't have the 64s but it looks like the rubber cable is microphonic and the 150s are braided nicely so that is another consideration. I'm listening to the Seahf 150s right now and it's quite satisfying, nice soundstage and bass (without being too punchy) for an earbud.



some prefer to have 10 variety earbuds worth $10 each, while some prefer to have 1 for $100. neither of them is wrong. it's just preference.
usually people would start like the former, and gradually step (or leap) up when they know what sound they like...

and then they go and collect the budgets again. 

that's the natural progression of head fi (abd and this earbud forum in particular)


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm enjoying listening to music with the Svara-L earbuds tonight, keep forgetting how much I like them


----------



## chinmie

HungryPanda said:


> I'm enjoying listening to music with the Svara-L earbuds tonight, keep forgetting how much I like them



the svara L is special, if it has just a bit of sparkle on the top end, it would kill the samsara in my book. even now, though i rated the samsara higher because technical performance, the svara still wins for me overall, with it's hall like soundstage it's and big, warm bass


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> I'm enjoying listening to music with the Svara-L earbuds tonight, keep forgetting how much I like them



Because of their big, warm sound, the Svara-L (115Ω) is especially nice when you're dropping off into a nap...


----------



## rkw (Mar 18, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> I want to put in at least a couple of days worth of burn in first before judging BK blue - however, given the initial impression I'll say the difference is really much more subtle than the price would suggest (and remember BK blue is 2x the price). So if you already own a BK, I don't think there is any rush for a BK blue at the moment.


I lost interest in the BK blue when people said that the only difference is the cable. If that is the case, I'm not surprised if there is little difference in the sound.


----------



## ClieOS

rkw said:


> I lost interest in the BK blue when people said that the only difference is the cable. If that is the case, I'm not surprised if there is little difference in the sound.



So I guess it won't bother you much that there is a 6 strands version of the BK blue (the normal version, which is the one I get, has 4 strands of wires) that has received A LOT of raved review among Shozy fans in China?


----------



## zeta555

ClieOS said:


> So I guess it won't bother you much that there is a 6 strands version of the BK blue (the normal version, which is the one I get, has 4 strands of wires) that has received A LOT of raved review among Shozy fans in China?


wow,  they can't stop milking the bk huh?
maybe they'll release a 10 strands version in a month or so.


----------



## ClieOS

zeta555 said:


> wow,  they can't stop milking the bk huh?
> maybe they'll release a 10 strands version in a month or so.



Apparently 6 strands are the most the housing can take without any further mod.


----------



## zeta555

ClieOS said:


> Apparently 6 strands are the most the housing can take without any further mod.


it would be so much easier if they just use detachable cable.


----------



## rkw

ClieOS said:


> So I guess it won't bother you much that there is a 6 strands version of the BK blue (the normal version, which is the one I get, has 4 strands of wires)


If 4 strands is 2x price, then by extrapolation 6 strands would be 3x price?


----------



## damex

is there earbuds with 2pin detachable cable support?
i know only about Venture Electronics with their MOE/AOE/ZOE and Rose Masya/Mojito.


----------



## ClieOS

rkw said:


> If 4 strands is 2x price, then by extrapolation 6 strands would be 3x price?



Nope, Just a mere 2.6x.


----------



## ctaxxxx (Mar 19, 2018)

After listening to the ZoomFred's some more, I really do not see these as a QFred 2.0. These are much bassier than the QFred and even the CampFred 2 (wish I still had it to compare directly). It sounds U-shaped, rather than mid focused. The bass is really impressive though. It has Fostex level's of authority and punch. The CampFred 2 wasn't cutting it for me for bass-centric music and sounded too closed in with thick foams, which was why I was looking for an IEM or portable closed back. The ZoomFred's still sound spacious with thick foams, and enormous with thin VE foams. Currently using Hiegi donut foams with these. May go back to thin.

The treble has smoothed over after some burn in, but it still has a nice sharp edge to it. The cymbals shimmer with a nice realism. I still prefer the Diomnes Lvl 2 for vocals so far (smoother upper mids and more present lower mids, warm overall vocals), but the ZoomFred midrange is more suitable for metal as it has more energy in comparison.The bass is really visceral for metal btw (listening to Converge atm). The overall tonality is better balanced compared to the other headphones I mentioned in previous posts. (The beryllium IEM isn't worth mentioning, it was really boomy and muddy...)


----------



## chaiyuta

@ctaxxxx : Just a quick question, Is yours 4.4 mm. BL plug?


----------



## mbwilson111

ctaxxxx said:


> (The beryllium IEM isn't worth mentioning, it was really boomy and muddy...)



Which IEM?


----------



## ctaxxxx (Mar 19, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> @ctaxxxx : Just a quick question, Is yours 4.4 mm. BL plug?


No, just 2.5mm. I still like DX200's AMP1 for it's neutrality, plus all the adapters I have are for 2.5mm. Not sure when I'll finally switch to 4.4mm only.



mbwilson111 said:


> Which IEM?


It's literally called Beryllium, by Periodic Audio. I didn't bother with burn in with these since there was really noticeable hiss/noise with AMP5. I've just decided I'm not for warm upper bass with super thick mids. Both Beryllium phones I've tried had this same syrupy sound signature, which is interesting because I've heard the Utopia is the opposite.


----------



## mbwilson111

ctaxxxx said:


> It's literally called Beryllium, by Periodic Audio.



I just wondered because I have the Urban HiFi Beryllium on the way.  Traded my hybrid version to my husband but wanted this one to compare.


----------



## ctaxxxx

mbwilson111 said:


> I just wondered because I have the Urban HiFi Beryllium on the way.  Traded my hybrid version to my husband but wanted this one to compare.


I wouldn't worry too much. My subjective tastes may differ from yours. It also should be obvious by now that I am fairly picky in my audio gear after dipping in $1000+ range, so my standards are pretty high.


----------



## mbwilson111

ctaxxxx said:


> I wouldn't worry too much. My subjective tastes may differ from yours. It also should be obvious by now that I am fairly picky in my audio gear after dipping in $1000+ range, so my standards are pretty high.



Not worried just curious.


----------



## redkingjoe

ClieOS said:


> So I guess it won't bother you much that there is a 6 strands version of the BK blue (the normal version, which is the one I get, has 4 strands of wires) that has received A LOT of raved review among Shozy fans in China?



I’ve got the 4 strands BK blue from Shozy in mid-January.

In Hong Kong a top executives from shozy came to the MTR station to deliver the Bk blue to me. I told him to increase the strands.

He said that the cost of the pure silver cable is extremely expensive but I told him the original strand of 4 should be insufficient for optimum bass performance. I urged him to test it with more strands. But he said the earbuds might be so expensive that no one would buy...


----------



## cathee

As if the BS1 needs any more press, I realized I've never seen photos of them sans foams, so thought I'd share. 

















Been very much enjoying them, though they're not without faults.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 19, 2018)

chinmie said:


> some prefer to have 10 variety earbuds worth $10 each, while some prefer to have 1 for $100. neither of them is wrong. it's just preference.
> usually people would start like the former, and gradually step (or leap) up when they know what sound they like...
> 
> and then they go and collect the budgets again.
> ...


I’m in stage 2 lol. The more expensive buds to suit my preferences. Once I inevitably buy the liebesleid and or zoomfred I may progress to stage 3 and buy all the newest budgets again lol.

I see some people here just buy a huge amount of budget buds but then I see thier profile and they have some nice full size headphones or iems so I understand why they stick to budget earbuds for the fun of the hobby and use quality headphones or iems or even other earbuds for immersive listening.


cathee said:


> As if the BS1 needs any more press, I realized I've never seen photos of them sans foams, so thought I'd share.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What are the faults you have found? I also found a few but was able to fix most with some tweaks and EQ.


----------



## Saoshyant

I'm currently in the stage 4, the lull between collecting.  I'm happy with what I have, especially my last acquisition the Raven Mk 2, and haven't seen any new budgets that I feel the need to get.  My collection's probably somewhere at 80-90 earbuds, so really I should be slimming down at some point.  I've been more feeling an itch for finding a good budget Chi-Fi ear clip headphone, as well as figure out a good closed, which may end up being solved with Audeze Mobius.


----------



## T light

ClieOS said:


> Lo and behold...
> 
> 
> 
> ...and a full view.




Looking forward to reading your thoughts on the BK blue version as well as your comparison to the BK

I really like my BK balanced earbuds.  That style/size bud seems to fit my ears best.  Have the VE zen 2 balanced (standard not black) and PK1.   Would like to try the zoomfred but not sure of the fit.  The zen 2 fit is alright if not on the move.


----------



## noknok23

After 200hr burn in I start to really enjoy the hifiboy dream. It's a very transparent and accurate sound. Fast. Quite balanced although the bass is on the back seat and treble is star of the show. Mids are natural and I fail to find them any flaws. I pick up subtle details I never heard before. It's completely unfatiguing and I could use it for more than 4 hours without any sign of tired ears, perhaps the least fatiguing earbuds I own. Because of it's transparency, it is quite affected by the source I paired it with. I listened to heavy metal tracks on my gf iPhone through Spotify just for the sake of it and I was surprised of engaging it was. It did sounded a bit brighter, soundstage less forward and overall clean, slightly digitalish compared to my main dap but still pretty fine overall. With my main source, the flow fees very natural, effortless but full of details.
I noticed some sibilance if the files is poorly recorded or if it is lofi MP3. It can be a bit unforgiving in that regards but it's nothing compared to butchers such as the Duke iem. I  recommend if you are interested in something that sound as close to your source as possible. For a focused but relaxed listening.
It's easy to drive, doesn't need an amp. Just a clean source.

Btw Ks 300 samsara is at 95usd or less for next Ali sale. Good price if you ask me.


----------



## doggiemom

ctaxxxx said:


> Both Beryllium phones I've tried had this same syrupy sound signature, which is interesting because I've heard the Utopia is the opposite.


The Utopia is definitely not syrupy!  Quite the opposite, very quick and detailed.  If you like the highs of the ZoomFred you would probably like the Utopia.  The Utopia may not have enough bass for you though...... On the other hand, on tracks like Lorde's "Royals" the bass really comes through, and it is punch and clear rather than thumpy.

To Sean's point, I think there is a time and place for all.  I listen to earbuds at work because although I am often in a noisy environment with pumps and equipment running, I have to be able to hear people in case they have a question or need something.  It is also a safety issue if one cannot hear what is going on.  I have a sort of a system for what buds are used when:  If I'm doing something that allows sitting at a computer or whatever, I'll use a 'nicer' bud but one that can still be replaced (like a K's Samsara).  If I'm doing something with chemicals or changing pump oil or anything where there is a reasonable probability of the buds getting damaged, then it is Vidos or Monk+ (though not a limited edition color!).    The more expensive and small batch buds are limited to home use.    On the weekends, I really enjoy listening to the Utopias with their accompanying DAC and amp on a stand by my reclining sofa.........  unfortunately it is only for a few hours a week, but to me it is really, really relaxing, and allows me to forget about work, etc. during that time.

I can't stop buying the budget stuff though because I love exploring the different sound signatures, and also really love getting stuff in the mail.......... if every time I got a package it was a TOTL headphone, I'd be divorced and have to sell everything to buy dog food.


----------



## mochill

I have the berryllium in my ears and don't find the syrupy


----------



## cathee (Mar 20, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> What are the faults you have found? I also found a few but was able to fix most with some tweaks and EQ.



Oh I think the BS1 sounds as advertised! The hype around these have been sky high (I think comparable to the Hiby R6 amongst the DAPheads) and in sound department they deliver (when you get the fit right).

My gripe with them are mostly in form and functionality.

Beautiful but _*bulky*_ wires, which amplifies the fit problem, catches easily on jackets/zippers/collars etc. earbuds popping out all the time. Along with being very source picky, they're not as portable as I had hoped. They basically sounds like two different earbuds through the Apple dongle and my Mojo. Even running the Dragonflys on my iPhone X, they were good but not great. Dragonfly with Tidal MQA on my laptop is superb though.

Good chance they'll pop up in the FS section this week/next.

EDIT: I know I am particularly picky with fit though, especially my left ear, it's just shaped weird. So take that for what it's worth. But the cables are overkill though, like the Grados equivalent.


----------



## chaiyuta

@cathee : After I resaled Penon BS1 to another person. Within 2 weeks later, he also decided to resale it. Now my former BS1 become the third hand products and I don't know what now it becomes. It can reach my acceptable sounstage width just only when I played it on DX200+AMP4. To be fair, naturally one product could not make everyone satisfied. Some might like and some don't. Though I don't have fitting issue with BS1 without sponges. Hope you find a new 'just right for you' buds soon. Cheers.


----------



## tayo15

Just got the bs1 experience ver.  and the B01 aoede, and the B01 was nice. It was a definite nice side grade from my previous headroom ms16. That being said the bs1 experience ver. Blew me away. I am almost a convert. The monks didn't do it for me. These do have nice separation, decent bass, and the mids and highs can be a bit abrasive in your face. That being said, I don't mind that. Are the bs1 official better than these?? Are there any upgrades from these??


----------



## Matarro

I suspect that my PT15 are the old version since they sound thin to me. They're not exactly bad but they don't sound like people have described the new version. Mine have a single rectangular back vent and the new version should have four holes, right? Does anyone know if NiceHCK have the new model?

Currently using the PT15 with my Mee BTX1 bluetooth cable and like I said, it's not bad but I would like a fuller, warmer sound. The PT15 fit me comfortably and they're inexpensive so if the new ones are better I might as well try them before I go for something else.


----------



## chinmie

Matarro said:


> I suspect that my PT15 are the old version since they sound thin to me. They're not exactly bad but they don't sound like people have described the new version. Mine have a single rectangular back vent and the new version should have four holes, right? Does anyone know if NiceHCK have the new model?
> 
> Currently using the PT15 with my Mee BTX1 bluetooth cable and like I said, it's not bad but I would like a fuller, warmer sound. The PT15 fit me comfortably and they're inexpensive so if the new ones are better I might as well try them before I go for something else.



The new one only have one vent hole..the old one have four


----------



## Matarro

chinmie said:


> The new one only have one vent hole..the old one have four



Thank you! Well, that saves me the trouble of ordering a new pair at least. Are you sure though? Sean wrote something contradictory here:



seanc6441 said:


> And yes you can get just the earbud without the cable if you like, make sure it’s the newer pt15 version with 4 holes on the back in the pictures.



I'm confused, further clarification needed!


----------



## chinmie

Matarro said:


> Thank you! Well, that saves me the trouble of ordering a new pair at least. Are you sure though? Sean wrote something contradictory here:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm confused, further clarification needed!



yes I'm sure. i have two four-holed ones that i purchased last year,and waiting for the new one-holed version inbound.

maybe @DBaldock9  could chime in? he have both version


----------



## chinmie

Talk about nostalgic repurchase, last  Saturday i had a mini meet with fellow friends from my local forum, and listened to the Blox B200...it surprised me, because i used to have the recabled B200, but the sound was nowhere this good. 

I know i have to get it.  

Well.. So much for downsizing then


----------



## Matarro

chinmie said:


> yes I'm sure. i have two four-holed ones that i purchased last year,and waiting for the new one-holed version inbound.
> 
> maybe @DBaldock9  could chime in? he have both version



If you have the old and ordered the new I don't have much reason to distrust you. Please let us know how you think they compare to each other when you get them.  

Like I said, these don't exactly sound bad so it might just be due to my taste in music. I want something that sound impressive on busy stuff like djent and techdeath. These are really nice for classic rock and prog so they have their place. I just listened to Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms with them and it was... nice!

I've been using Vido and Qian39 for heavy stuff but when I want wireless PT15 is my only option atm.


----------



## chinmie

Matarro said:


> I want something that sound impressive on busy stuff like djent and techdeath.



Try the Willsound MK2. I listen to Tool and Korn (is that considered djent?I'm not too familiar with the term) with it, and it's impressive


----------



## Matarro

chinmie said:


> Try the Willsound MK2. I listen to Tool and Korn (is that considered djent?I'm not too familiar with the term) with it, and it's impressive



Djent is a really stupid word to be honest. I think it's supposed to describe a certain kind of disted guitar. Anyway it's basically Meshuggah and similar bands.

Funny that you mention Tool since that's a band I really enjoy with the PT15. I think they highlight Keenan's voice in a good way. Speaking of which, I listened to Rosetta Stoned a few days ago and noticed how well I could hear the conversation in the intro with PT15 compared to Vido. Noted though, I'll add Willsound to my list.


----------



## Matarro

Matarro said:


> Speaking of which, I listened to Rosetta Stoned a few days ago and noticed how well I could hear the conversation in the intro with PT15 compared to Vido.



Doh, I meant the track before. Lost Keys.


----------



## zeta555

still looking for the holy grail, anyone tried the zen whites? is it that good?

need new buds while selling my old collections


----------



## chinmie

Matarro said:


> Djent is a really stupid word to be honest. I think it's supposed to describe a certain kind of disted guitar. Anyway it's basically Meshuggah and similar bands.
> 
> Funny that you mention Tool since that's a band I really enjoy with the PT15. I think they highlight Keenan's voice in a good way. Speaking of which, I listened to Rosetta Stoned a few days ago and noticed how well I could hear the conversation in the intro with PT15 compared to Vido. Noted though, I'll add Willsound to my list.



the PT15 is my most favorite earbud under $20 right now (not to mention one of my most used everyday). it's balanced signature is rare in the budget segment. i think it's the cheapest you can get to Etymotic kind of sound, but of course with airier and fatter overall sound (because of the inherent characteristics of the earbuds compared to IEMs)
The PT15 accentuate the mid (hence vocals and speeches are clear), the MK2 has a mild V-ish shape but also still clear in the mids and have a big mid bass that's not bloating up the vocals. 

oooh, and the 10.000 days is my most favorite Tool album (along with Ænima)


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 20, 2018)

cathee said:


> Oh I think the BS1 sounds as advertised! The hype around these have been sky high (I think comparable to the Hiby R6 amongst the DAPheads) and in sound department they deliver (when you get the fit right).
> 
> My gripe with them are mostly in form and functionality.
> 
> ...


Have you tried them overear? This I found improved the fit, usability of the wire (better weight distribution so they don’t fall out) and the soundstage immensely.



chaiyuta said:


> @cathee : After I resaled Penon BS1 to another person. Within 2 weeks later, he also decided to resale it. Now my former BS1 become the third hand products and I don't know what now it becomes. It can reach my acceptable sounstage width just only when I played it on DX200+AMP4. To be fair, naturally one product could not make everyone satisfied. Some might like and some don't. Though I don't have fitting issue with BS1 without sponges. Hope you find a new 'just right for you' buds soon. Cheers.


Out of curiosity (I cannot remember if I asked you before) did you try them overear? I’m not sure if it has the same effect without foams but when I applied the super thin foams and used them overear, the soundstage was IMMENSE. I mean, it was doing more spacious things in depth than my masya, and width was on par with the Masya. So If that was your main gripe, i hope you had a chance to try it that way before it was sold


----------



## seanc6441

tayo15 said:


> Just got the bs1 experience ver.  and the B01 aoede, and the B01 was nice. It was a definite nice side grade from my previous headroom ms16. That being said the bs1 experience ver. Blew me away. I am almost a convert. The monks didn't do it for me. These do have nice separation, decent bass, and the mids and highs can be a bit abrasive in your face. That being said, I don't mind that. Are the bs1 official better than these?? Are there any upgrades from these??


Yes a massive upgrade, don’t think anyone who has heard the two would say otherwise.


----------



## seanc6441

Matarro said:


> Thank you! Well, that saves me the trouble of ordering a new pair at least. Are you sure though? Sean wrote something contradictory here:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm confused, further clarification needed!


Yes it was me who was probably the confused one, I have the variant with 4 holes which I bought from a listing on nicehck saying ‘new **** pt15’ but apparently I have the old version :/. Chimie I most likely correct with his statement.


----------



## chaiyuta

seanc6441 said:


> Out of curiosity (I cannot remember if I asked you before) did you try them overear? I’m not sure if it has the same effect without foams but when I applied the super thin foams and used them overear, the soundstage was IMMENSE. I mean, it was doing more spacious things in depth than my masya, and width was on par with the Masya. So If that was your main gripe, i hope you had a chance to try it that way before it was sold


I've ever tried every patterns I could, including 'overear' before you raised it up so long time. I am a very first one who got BS1 and it is not 3.5SE, I bought 2.5BL. Since I have a lot of chance to try high-end stuffs, so my familiarity is pretty high. The one reason I prefer Mojito to Masya. Cause Masya is just mediocre soundstage for me.


----------



## Willo13B (Mar 20, 2018)

Hi crew planning to take advantage of Ali's anniversary sale to get me a new set of buds for EDM, bass heavy stuff what should I be looking at? Thanks!

Edit: plan to run them thru my various dacs E17K, NX2 , BTR1...


----------



## seanc6441

chaiyuta said:


> I've ever tried every patterns I could, including 'overear' before you raised it up so long time. I am a very first one who got BS1 and it is not 3.5SE, I bought 2.5BL. Since I have a lot of chance to try high-end stuffs, so my familiarity is pretty high. The one reason I prefer Mojito to Masya. Cause Masya is just mediocre soundstage for me.


Ah ok so you really appreciate very big soundstage


----------



## spidey84

Looking to get either Nicehck EBX or Shozy BK in upcoming Aliexpress sale, how does this 2 compare in sound quality? 
Build wise it seems EBX will be more durable with mmcx connection..


----------



## thebentern

spidey84 said:


> Looking to get either Nicehck EBX or Shozy BK in upcoming Aliexpress sale



What kind of discounts can we expect from the sale? I've never bought anything from Ali during the sale before.


----------



## noknok23

spidey84 said:


> Looking to get either Nicehck EBX or Shozy BK in upcoming Aliexpress sale, how does this 2 compare in sound quality?
> Build wise it seems EBX will be more durable with mmcx connection..


 shozy BK is on sale? can you share the link please? Best deal Ive found so far is K's 300 samsara and K's 600. from 130 to 75euro


----------



## spidey84

thebentern said:


> What kind of discounts can we expect from the sale? I've never bought anything from Ali during the sale before.



From what I see EBX will be discounted to US$106 from 136 during sales, really tempting to buy at this pricing. I was considering Penon BS1 also, but it seems like fit will be a problem due to its bulky cable


----------



## HungryPanda

thebentern said:


> What kind of discounts can we expect from the sale? I've never bought anything from Ali during the sale before.


I've seen anything from 25% to 38% savings so far


----------



## spidey84

noknok23 said:


> shozy BK is on sale? can you share the link please? Best deal Ive found so far is K's 300 samsara and K's 600. from 130 to 75euro



I can only find 1 seller with Shozy BK on sale, with none sold though might be risky

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SHO...2172-44d2-9616-77761e0efd9f&priceBeautifyAB=0


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 20, 2018)

spidey84 said:


> From what I see EBX will be discounted to US$106 from 136 during sales, really tempting to buy at this pricing. I was considering Penon BS1 also, but it seems like fit will be a problem due to its bulky cable


If the Samsara is down to €75/$92 as suggested above (yep it is!) then you may look at getting that one, that seems like a great deal!

Although I now realise it is 300 ohm, take that into consideration!


----------



## thebentern

HungryPanda said:


> I've seen anything from 25% to 38% savings so far


----------



## spidey84

seanc6441 said:


> If the Samsara is down to €75/$92 as suggested above (yep it is!) then you may look at getting that one, that seems like a great deal!



Samsara is at 300 ohm might be hard for me to power when moving around, currently just using Fiio E17 awaiting for Zuperdac-S to ship.  Unless I use my desktop dac/amp, but usually I prefer using headphones when on my desktop.


----------



## j4100

The subject of sale prices has come up before. Some sellers will increase the regular price to make the sale price look good. Buyer beware


----------



## ctaxxxx

doggiemom said:


> The Utopia is definitely not syrupy!  Quite the opposite, very quick and detailed.  If you like the highs of the ZoomFred you would probably like the Utopia.  The Utopia may not have enough bass for you though...... On the other hand, on tracks like Lorde's "Royals" the bass really comes through, and it is punch and clear rather than thumpy.
> 
> To Sean's point, I think there is a time and place for all.  I listen to earbuds at work because although I am often in a noisy environment with pumps and equipment running, I have to be able to hear people in case they have a question or need something.  It is also a safety issue if one cannot hear what is going on.  I have a sort of a system for what buds are used when:  If I'm doing something that allows sitting at a computer or whatever, I'll use a 'nicer' bud but one that can still be replaced (like a K's Samsara).  If I'm doing something with chemicals or changing pump oil or anything where there is a reasonable probability of the buds getting damaged, then it is Vidos or Monk+ (though not a limited edition color!).    The more expensive and small batch buds are limited to home use.    On the weekends, I really enjoy listening to the Utopias with their accompanying DAC and amp on a stand by my reclining sofa.........  unfortunately it is only for a few hours a week, but to me it is really, really relaxing, and allows me to forget about work, etc. during that time.
> 
> I can't stop buying the budget stuff though because I love exploring the different sound signatures, and also really love getting stuff in the mail.......... if every time I got a package it was a TOTL headphone, I'd be divorced and have to sell everything to buy dog food.



I would love to try the Utopia, but it's a bit out of my price range. Focal Clear is possible though! Just waiting for a used sale listing or retail price drop.

I use my earbuds exclusively for work. I've moved floors and now need isolation to block out the new noisy neighbors (not all the time though), or really need to concentrate. I prefer not to jack up the volume too much to drown them out, or I end up fatigued.

But after the recent purchases, I'm now considering Chi-Fi IEMs. TOTL buds already give me that resolution and clarity I seek, and now that heavy bass too with the new ZoomFred. I'll just look for something that isolates and performs well enough with a sound signature I like. I really don't need to drop so much for something I'll now mainly use to block out noise at work... (This is me convincing myself)

Curious about the iBasso IT01 and it's graphene driver. Reviews suggest they're sub-bass focused with a leaner mid-bass, so that's already an improvement for my tastes over the Beryllium phones that were the other way around.




mochill said:


> I have the berryllium in my ears and don't find the syrupy



Probably the ear tips. They can have a noticeable influence on the sound.

Unfortunately, my right ear canal is so stubborn, that I have to use really small Spinfit tips to get anything to fit. I cannot fit anything larger, unless its a shallow fit like the 1MORE Quad. Those sat outside the ear canal. Would love to find something similar that also terminates to 2.5mm. I should post a thread and ask...


----------



## waynes world

cathee said:


> Beautiful but _*bulky*_ wires, which amplifies the fit problem, catches easily on jackets/zippers/collars etc. earbuds popping out all the time. Along with being very source picky, they're not as portable as I had hoped. They basically sounds like two different earbuds through the Apple dongle and my Mojo. Even running the Dragonflys on my iPhone X, they were good but not great. Dragonfly with Tidal MQA on my laptop is superb though.
> 
> Good chance they'll pop up in the FS section this week/next.
> 
> EDIT: I know I am particularly picky with fit though, especially my left ear, it's just shaped weird. So take that for what it's worth. But the cables are overkill though, like the Grados equivalent.



How is it possible that we both have the SAME funny shaped left ear lol! You describe the exact same issue I have with earbuds that have thick or stiff cables. For example, the Snow Lotus 2.0 has a beautiful thick cable which I clip to my shirt, but the buds end up popping out of my ears quite frequently which unfortunately detracts from my personal enjoyment of them.


----------



## HungryPanda

Well a few budgets arrived today, The VE premium pack (Biggies, smalls and Monk Espresso) and Fengru DIY EMX500s. Time for burn in fun.


----------



## HungryPanda

waynes world said:


> How is it possible that we both have the SAME funny shaped left ear lol! You describe the exact same issue I have with earbuds that have thick or stiff cables. For example, the Snow Lotus 2.0 has a beautiful thick cable which I clip to my shirt, but the buds end up popping out of my ears quite frequently which unfortunately detracts from my personal enjoyment of them.


 These are the only earbud I actually need to use a shirt clip, that splitter weighs a ton


----------



## waynes world

The shirt clip in the quote below came with some JVC iems years ago. It was great, because it would adapt to cables of any thickness:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-devil-is-in-the-details-jvcs-new-iem-shirt-clip.494299/



ljokerl said:


> It's so simple and yet so satisfying...
> 
> 
> Makeshift button on the side of the clip opens the smaller clip far enough for a thick IEM cord.
> ...



Does anyone here know where to buy those in bulk? (I know that you can get one if you buy a jvc iem)


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> These are the only earbud I actually need to use a shirt clip, that splitter weighs a ton



I may be more sensitive to downward pressure/tugging. And it doesn't help that when I am moving around, I often wear the earbud cable up under my shirt to keep it out of the way, and that seems to create more downward pulling.


----------



## mochill

ctaxxxx said:


> I would love to try the Utopia, but it's a bit out of my price range. Focal Clear is possible though! Just waiting for a used sale listing or retail price drop.
> 
> I use my earbuds exclusively for work. I've moved floors and now need isolation to block out the new noisy neighbors (not all the time though), or really need to concentrate. I prefer not to jack up the volume too much to drown them out, or I end up fatigued.
> 
> ...


The spinfits does enhance bass response and smooths out and peaky treble , for the berryllium i am using stcok tips , they are tuned to be natural, neutral with powerful bass and Dynamics,.


----------



## chinmie

zeta555 said:


> Curious about the iBasso IT01 and it's graphene driver. Reviews suggest they're sub-bass focused with a leaner mid-bass, so that's already an improvement for my tastes over the Beryllium phones that were the other way around.
> 
> 
> Probably the ear tips. They can have a noticeable influence on the sound.
> ...



Another iem to consider is the TFZ King Pro also with graphene drivers. Based on reviews they are better than the IT01. I think they would have a huge discount, putting their price similar to the IT01. Also they have shallow fit, another point you might like.


----------



## cathee

seanc6441 said:


> Have you tried them overear? This I found improved the fit, usability of the wire (better weight distribution so they don’t fall out) and the soundstage immensely.



Thanks for the suggestion, definitely gonna give that a try but usually over-ear is no go for me. Another reason I don't play well with most IEMs.


----------



## Matarro

waynes world said:


> The shirt clip in the quote below came with some JVC iems years ago. It was great, because it would adapt to cables of any thickness:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-devil-is-in-the-details-jvcs-new-iem-shirt-clip.494299/
> 
> 
> ...



Looks very similar to the one that came with Pinnacle P2, but I think it's a bit expensive. 

http://www.meeaudio.com/ShirtClip-P1-MEE/.


----------



## j4100

waynes world said:


> The shirt clip in the quote below came with some JVC iems years ago. It was great, because it would adapt to cables of any thickness:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-devil-is-in-the-details-jvcs-new-iem-shirt-clip.494299/
> 
> 
> ...



Saw a bunch of cheapo's on Ali, but not as good looking as that one.


Haven't bought anything since my VE splurge. Thought I was over buying earbuds, but starting to get the bug again. OCD strikes again!


----------



## gazzington

HungryPanda said:


> Well a few budgets arrived today, The VE premium pack (Biggies, smalls and Monk Espresso) and Fengru DIY EMX500s. Time for burn in fun.


I'm waiting for my ve premium pack to arrive any day now. I also ordered the run about amp which came with free Zen lites. Can't wait


----------



## XP_98

spidey84 said:


> Looking to get either Nicehck EBX or Shozy BK in upcoming Aliexpress sale, how does this 2 compare in sound quality?


Could anyone compare them ?


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 20, 2018)

XP_98 said:


> Could anyone compare them ?



@spidey84
Not sure if many here own both actually, but if you piece together separate info you could generalise and say the EBX is brighter and lighter sound, has a bigger soundstage. I think it was also described as musical and relaxed/not too aggressively tuned.

The BK would be more full lush mids, forward vocals and a more intimate soundstage. It’s got an analog quality sounding slightly warm but very natural and airy at the same time.


----------



## wskl

I just saw this on Willsound's FB page.


----------



## snip3r77

Looking for an upgrade from graphene. Any recommendations?


----------



## spidey84

seanc6441 said:


> @spidey84
> Not sure if many here own both actually, but if you piece together separate info you could generalise and say the EBX is brighter and lighter sound, has a bigger soundstage. I think it was also described as musical and relaxed/not too aggressively tuned.
> 
> The BK would be more full lush mids, forward vocals and a more intimate soundstage. It’s got an analog quality sounding slightly warm but very natural and airy at the same time.



Thanks for the reply, thats about what i found also based on various reviews both are considered all-rounder for various genres. Probably will get EBX due to ability to change cables and lower price.


----------



## Matarro

The sale on EBX is tempting but NiceHCK seems to have some problems shipping to Sweden. EBX would be 60 dollars shipping, even more ridiculous is 48 dollars to ship Graphenes. Very annoying, I was able to order PT15 with normal shipping two months ago. I suspect this is because of recent events with the Swedish post office.

Hopefully I'll be able to find a solution, otherwise I think I might take a chance on Hyck100.

Also, did anyone try these? https://m.fr.aliexpress.com/item/32567810690.html?spm=a2g0n.store-home-cache.0.0.5c297910QCazbB


----------



## noknok23

Matarro said:


> The sale on EBX is tempting but NiceHCK seems to have some problems shipping to Sweden. EBX would be 60 dollars shipping, even more ridiculous is 48 dollars to ship Graphenes. Very annoying, I was able to order PT15 with normal shipping two months ago. I suspect this is because of recent events with the Swedish post office.
> 
> Hopefully I'll be able to find a solution, otherwise I think I might take a chance on Hyck100.
> 
> Also, did anyone try these? https://m.fr.aliexpress.com/item/32567810690.html?spm=a2g0n.store-home-cache.0.0.5c297910QCazbB


Ironically, the few feedbacks I read from chitty store weren't favorable at all. But you never know... this could be a hidden gem


----------



## RuFrost

Matarro said:


> I suspect this is because of recent events with the Swedish post office.


What has happened with Swedish post office?


----------



## jrazmar

+1 on the EBX vs Shozy BK comparison.


----------



## ClieOS

Matarro said:


> Also, did anyone try these? https://m.fr.aliexpress.com/item/32567810690.html?spm=a2g0n.store-home-cache.0.0.5c297910QCazbB



That's DaiK's DK-Jin. We talked about it quite some time ago. It has been (minor) upgraded to DK-Song.


----------



## Danneq (Mar 21, 2018)

Matarro said:


> The sale on EBX is tempting but NiceHCK seems to have some problems shipping to Sweden. EBX would be 60 dollars shipping, even more ridiculous is 48 dollars to ship Graphenes. Very annoying, I was able to order PT15 with normal shipping two months ago. I suspect this is because of recent events with the Swedish post office.
> 
> Hopefully I'll be able to find a solution, otherwise I think I might take a chance on Hyck100.
> 
> Also, did anyone try these? https://m.fr.aliexpress.com/item/32567810690.html?spm=a2g0n.store-home-cache.0.0.5c297910QCazbB




Advice from a fellow Swede: keep in mind that Postnord will add a 75 kr fee and import taxes to ALL packages coming from China to Sweden from the 1st of March.

I still bought an Android TV box from Geekbuying a few weeks ago. If my calculations are correct I would still pay around 150 kr less with customs fee and import taxes than if I bought the same item from a European seller...


----------



## Danneq

RuFrost said:


> What has happened with Swedish post office?



From the 1st of March ALL packages arriving from China (well actually from outside Europe) will be subjected to customs fee and import taxes.

That used to be the case with you bought something with a value over $50 (or something around that). And you could always convince the seller to write $10 as value and not need to pay the fee and import taxes. Now packages starting with $1 will be subjected to that. Swedes have bought a lot of stuff from Chinese sellers and Postnord has been overloaded with work. That might be a way to reduce the influx of packages.

No more budget earbuds for me sadly. Sometimes I buy DVDs, Blu rays and CDs from the US and I wonder if that will also be affected. Probably will...


----------



## spidey84

Found a review in japanese seems to rate EBX slightly higher than Shozy BK

(EBX) http://blog.livedoor.jp/headphone_metal/archives/52387951.html
(BK)   http://blog.livedoor.jp/headphone_metal/archives/52349598.html


----------



## Matarro

RuFrost said:


> What has happened with Swedish post office?



What Danneq said. 



Danneq said:


> Advice from a fellow Swede: keep in mind that Postnord will add a 75 kr fee and import taxes to ALL packages coming from China to Sweden from the 1st of March.
> 
> I still bought an Android TV box from Geekbuying a few weeks ago. If my calculations are correct I would still pay around 150 kr less with customs fee and import taxes than if I bought the same item from a European seller...



Yep, that sux. Ordering cheap things one at a time is a bad idea at the moment.  I actually got my Vidos after the 1st of March and didn't have to pay for it so I guess it slipped through.


----------



## kurtextrem

Everytime there's a sale on Ali I'm like "I need to buy something, I need I need!!!" but then I look at my earbuds (Shozy BK and Penon BS1) and I think "what could be better than those two" (under 150$ cost).

I mean the EBX and Samsara look nice, but all rankings I see have either BK on a similar level or rate the BS1 higher, so why should I buy them 

Anyone else feeling like this?


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 21, 2018)

kurtextrem said:


> Everytime there's a sale on Ali I'm like "I need to buy something, I need I need!!!" but then I look at my earbuds (Shozy BK and Penon BS1) and I think "what could be better than those two" (under 150$ cost).
> 
> I mean the EBX and Samsara look nice, but all rankings I see have either BK on a similar level or rate the BS1 higher, so why should I buy them
> 
> Anyone else feeling like this?


Well the K300 Samara is gonna be $91 so you have to ask yourself what could be better for under $95 

Joking aside, if you are happy with your collection (the bk and bs1 compliment each other nicely) then stay clear of the sale!

I feel like the Samsara and BS1 are pretty comparable SQ from what I’ve heard and both of them aren’t too much ahead of the Rose Masya so I don’t feel like I NEED the samsara but the price is pretty convincing so who knows what will happen ^^

Honestly I wish the liebesleid was on sale...I’d probably go for it if that was the case.


----------



## ClieOS

EBX is a very nice sounding earbud, but not quite the flagship level as BK. Personally, I would rate it closer to the level of a second-tier.


----------



## silverfishla

Well, I guess all the hype finally sunk in...i’ve Bought the Penon BS1 with balanced plug to use with my Shanling M3s.  I’ve also got the Rose Mojito and Masya in balanced configuration, so I’ll let you all know how it compares.  Seriously, this has got to be my last bud....


----------



## snip3r77

I need a step up from graphene. What's my poison? Thanks


----------



## mbwilson111

silverfishla said:


> Seriously, this has got to be my last bud....



Good luck with that.


----------



## silverfishla

mbwilson111 said:


> Good luck with that.


Yeah, I know!  HaHa!  Seriously, no, my last bud...seriously!                                                seriously.


----------



## redkingjoe

silverfishla said:


> Yeah, I know!  HaHa!  Seriously, no, my last bud...seriously!                                                seriously.


Last buds this month, seriously


----------



## rigui

I have a question, will K's 300 samsara have a good synergy with my LG G6? I'm planning to buy on this sale on AliExpress. Thanks


----------



## groucho69

silverfishla said:


> Yeah, I know!  HaHa!  Seriously, no, my last bud...seriously!                                                seriously.


----------



## kurtextrem

I just found this earbud: https://kickstarter.com/projects/10...s-upgrade-your-mobile-audio-expe/description#
Looks interesting... however early bird 19$, I'm not sure if will will come even close to any of the better earbuds. But the Apple type shell is interesting.


----------



## vladstef

Tried to find some nice discounts for 28.03. on Aliexpress:

- Moondrop Nameless: 18$
- NiceHCK EBX: 107$
- NiceHCK Graphene (older version): 22$
- **** PT15: around 10$ with a simple cable
- Memt T5: 18$


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 21, 2018)

rigui said:


> I have a question, will K's 300 samsara have a good synergy with my LG G6? I'm planning to buy on this sale on AliExpress. Thanks


Depends I think there are two versions of the G6 one with quad dac+amp (like V20) and one with snapdragon audio which won’t be as high fidelity or powerful I assume.

If it’s the quad dac then yes I should sound great (this G6 is supposed to sound like V20 with slightly less bass and more treble, not a huge difference though I imagine.) The samara by reviews sounds well balanced and decently full sounding with some warmth, perfect for the V20/G6 to balance out the neutral/cool nature of that sabre dac.

The power output of these phones in high impendance mode (again assuming you have quad dac variant) is definitely enough to power them well.


----------



## miroslav

vladstef said:


> Tried to find some nice discounts for 28.03. on Aliexpress:
> 
> - Moondrop Nameless: 18$
> - NiceHCK EBX: 107$
> ...


----------



## H.L.

EBX is rated as a better sound quality than Shozy BK in my country.
It is a flagship level.
There may be a difference in the quality of the machine.


----------



## rigui

seanc6441 said:


> Depends I think there are two versions of the G6 one with quad dac+amp (like V20) and one with snapdragon audio which won’t be as high fidelity or powerful I assume.
> 
> If it’s the quad dac then yes I should sound great (this G6 is supposed to sound like V20 with slightly less bass and more treble, not a huge difference though I imagine.) The samara by reviews sounds well balanced and decently full sounding with some warmth, perfect for the V20/G6 to balance out the neutral/cool nature of that sabre dac.
> 
> The power output of these phones in high impendance mode (again assuming you have quad dac variant) is definitely enough to power them well.



I own the G6 with the quad dac version. I was thinking pairing it to Samsara because of G6's neutral to bright sound. I also want to try high impedance mode.


----------



## seanc6441

rigui said:


> I own the G6 with the quad dac version. I was thinking pairing it to Samsara because of G6's neutral to bright sound. I also want to try high impedance mode.


Sounds like a perfect match to me! I have the V20 and I think any earbud described as warm full and balanced will pair excellently with this phone. The 300 ohm is an advantage so you can use the high impendance mode, which I’m sure will sound powerful and dynamic.


----------



## noknok23

I love the samsara... At the sale price it's a no brainer imo.


----------



## seanc6441

What’s the price of the samsara normally? It says €121 down to €75. Was it not at the same price as the Masya before (around €90-100) or am I mistaken?


----------



## rigui

seanc6441 said:


> Sounds like a perfect match to me! I have the V20 and I think any earbud described as warm full and balanced will pair excellently with this phone. The 300 ohm is an advantage so you can use the high impendance mode, which I’m sure will sound powerful and dynamic.



Thanks for the info. I can't wait for the sale on aliexpress. That would be my first expensive earbud and i think a huge upgrade for me. I currently own earbuds that are less than $20.


----------



## euge

These are pretty amazing


----------



## seanc6441

euge said:


> These are pretty amazing


What’s that? The K’s Ling?


----------



## euge

seanc6441 said:


> What’s that? The K’s Ling?



Yeah you should pick one up during the sale


----------



## seanc6441

euge said:


> Yeah you should pick one up during the sale


Have you got anything to compare it off like another TOTL earbud? Something to give me an idea of the sound haha


----------



## euge

seanc6441 said:


> Have you got anything to compare it off like another TOTL earbud? Something to give me an idea of the sound haha



Only got them yesterday, but the sound-stage and smooth/deep bass really stood out. 
It's also a lot more comfortable than the bs1 and maybe even the bk, the cable is really light and soft, there's a bit of weight to the buds but it helps it stay in place.


----------



## seanc6441

euge said:


> Only got them yesterday, but the sound-stage and smooth/deep bass really stood out.
> It's also a lot more comfortable than the bs1 and maybe even the bk, the cable is really light and soft, there's a bit of weight to the buds but it helps it stay in place.


Yeah they look extremely comfortable. I like any earbud with a small shell because if it’s too small I can add to the diameter with foam tape or other methods but if it’s too big you’re just out of luck.

I’d love to get the liebesleid or poseidon or this black ling to try out for this reason... I absolutely love the look and design.


----------



## chinmie (Mar 21, 2018)

euge said:


> Only got them yesterday, but the sound-stage and smooth/deep bass really stood out.
> It's also a lot more comfortable than the bs1 and maybe even the bk, the cable is really light and soft, there's a bit of weight to the buds but it helps it stay in place.



nice, i haven't tried the black ling, only the silver one.

the Liebesleid and poseidon have a bit more weight compared to the ling, obviously because of larger size. with that weight, all this metal buds (ling included) have that nice heft.. when they sit on your ears,  they sit on your ears.

and the way they vibrate and kick your ears with the bass..you can't get that feeling from their plastic counterparts


----------



## waynes world

euge said:


> Yeah you should pick one up during the sale





euge said:


> Only got them yesterday, but the sound-stage and smooth/deep bass really stood out.
> It's also a lot more comfortable than the bs1 and maybe even the bk, the cable is really light and soft, there's a bit of weight to the buds but it helps it stay in place.



I think it's about time for me to get banished back to the "Absolute best budget earbuds thread" lol!


----------



## j4100

seanc6441 said:


> What’s the price of the samsara normally? It says €121 down to €75. Was it not at the same price as the Masya before (around €90-100) or am I mistaken?



I paid $117 last year for the Samsara, so that's a good price.


----------



## kurtextrem

I guess I'm gonna go for the regular K's Ling then (on sale just below 150$)


----------



## TLDRonin

Wait what??



**** PT15 is an earbud that comes with MMCX cables that costs $10?? On top of that it seems to sound good?

Will definitely pick one up during the AE anniversary sale.


----------



## seanc6441

@chinmie seeing as you have heard both the liebesleid and poseidon I was wondering which foams you were using on both?

I’m trying to determine if the poseidon with super thin monk/aliexpress foams will have enough sparkle in the treble to justify it over the liebesleid which as you say has more focus on the upper frequencies.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> @chinmie seeing as you have heard both the liebesleid and poseidon I was wondering which foams you were using on both?
> 
> I’m trying to determine if the poseidon with super thin monk/aliexpress foams will have enough sparkle in the treble to justify it over the liebesleid which as you say has more focus on the upper frequencies.



i don't have the Poseidon, but i had a chance auditioning them when i met @zeta555 a while ago (great guy. thanks bro!)

i forgot what foam he used, i think it was the stock ones, so regular thickness i presume.
I use hiegi full foams on my Liebesleid. 
i reckon using thin foams on the Poseidon would let more treble, but it will not be the same character as the Liebesleid.

maybe @ClieOS could give better opinion, because he has both.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 22, 2018)

chinmie said:


> i don't have the Poseidon, but i had a chance auditioning them when i met @zeta555 a while ago (great guy. thanks bro!)
> 
> i forgot what foam he used, i think it was the stock ones, so regular thickness i presume.
> I use hiegi full foams on my Liebesleid.
> ...


Because I love using the thinnest foams possible in a sense I opt for balanced-darker buds sometimes and let the thin foams bump up the treble and control the bass somewhat. So while the signature of the liebesleid sounds good to me, in practice I might actually prefer the poseidon with thin foams.

I really dislike what heigi foams (full and donut) do to the sound for my ears, they seem to dampen the airyness being more sealed. That’s why I love thin foams, they really provide the most transparent and airy sound.

Also the smoother the sound the better seeing as thin foams can reveal more harshness if the earbud/source files have any.

All this being moot since the poseidon isn’t available anymore, at least not the normal one, no way I’m paying through the roof for a precious metal version.


----------



## ClieOS (Mar 22, 2018)

I used generic, regular thickness foam on Liebesleid, as it is a brighter sounding earbud and a bit of foam helps to add a little bit of warmness back to the mix. Poseidon, on the other hand, is already a smooth and warm sounding earbud, so I opt for my own MHF (Multi-Holes Foam) that give good seal without any overdampening.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Because I love using the thinnest foams possible in a sense I opt for balanced-darker buds sometimes and let the thin foams bump up the treble and control the bass somewhat. So while the signature of the liebesleid sounds good to me, in practice I might actually prefer the poseidon with thin foams.
> 
> I really dislike what heigi foams (full and donut) do to the sound for my ears, they seem to dampen the airyness being more sealed. That’s why I love thin foams, they really provide the most transparent and airy sound.



depends on the earbuds really.. some benefits with the thin ones, while some are better with hiegi for me (you can see my profile on which foams i currently use for each buds). sometimes even that can change when I'm bored, but essentially that is what i think the best for them (again, for me)

Usually i tried them first without foams, then:
-if the bass is enough, use thin foams
-if the mids is too forward, use donuts
-if the the bass lacking, use full foams

if i tried all foams and still not satisfied or didn't find the right sound, i sell them


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> depends on the earbuds really.. some benefits with the thin ones, while some are better with hiegi for me (you can see my profile on which foams i currently use for each buds). sometimes even that can change when I'm bored, but essentially that is what i think the best for them (again, for me)
> 
> Usually i tried them first without foams, then:
> -if the bass is enough, use thin foams
> ...


Hey nice to see someone else who uses donuts/full to either push forward or recess the mids slightly... Its a cool little trick!

I find the thin foams really bring out the vocals so I use them on the BS1 but obviously with the BK being so forward you need donuts to relax it a little.


----------



## ClieOS

Something to "xcited" about 




 



 

Without further ado....





Simphonio Dragon2+ (SWD2+)
Shozy BK Limited


----------



## mochill

ClieOS said:


> Something to "xcited" about
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Holy schiiit


----------



## Majin

Currently looking at the seahf 150 and the mx760 graphenes. Can anybody compare these 2? 

Hope i can find some more juicy AE deals.


----------



## HungryPanda

Majin said:


> Currently looking at the seahf 150 and the mx760 graphenes. Can anybody compare these 2?
> 
> Hope i can find some more juicy AE deals.


 Of the two you mention the Seahf 150 is the better imo


----------



## Matarro (Mar 22, 2018)

Since it became clear that my **** PT15 weren't the old version so the flaws I perceived weren't due to that, I have tinkered a bit with different foams and even went down the route of hockey-tape to see if I could get a better fit/seal. I actually like them a lot now, even for heavy music. Not sure if I prefer regular foam with some tape underneath as padding or just a donut+thin. Either way it sounds better now and EQ-ing up the bass just a little also helped.

Or well, it did. But as I was typing this the right one suddenly started rattling. Typical...

edit: Yep, sounding worse by the minute, Tried the audiocheck test and the right bud is rattling through almost the entire sweep.


----------



## jrazmar

ClieOS said:


> I used generic, regular thickness foam on Liebesleid, as it is a brighter sounding earbud and a bit of foam helps to add a little bit of warmness back to the mix. Poseidon, on the other hand, is already a smooth and warm sounding earbud, so I opt for my own MHF (Multi-Holes Foam) that give good seal without any overdampening.



Hey ClieOS, without further ado, could you kindly give us a quick sound description of each of these TOTL earbuds you have and which is your current personal favorite? I may have some money to spend so looking at the Moondrop, Shozy, K's earphones and other TOTL earbuds to buy next. Up to now, I am still not convinced with the BS1. Hope you can share something to us who hunger for valuable information from the Master. Thanks!


----------



## seanc6441

jrazmar said:


> Hey ClieOS, without further ado, could you kindly give us a quick sound description of each of these TOTL earbuds you have and which is your current personal favorite? I may have some money to spend so looking at the Moondrop, Shozy, K's earphones and other TOTL earbuds to buy next. Up to now, I am still not convinced with the BS1. Hope you can share something to us who hunger for valuable information from the Master. Thanks!


ClieOS has probably 30 TOTL earbuds at a guess... You really gonna subject him to that kind of torture? LMAO

Might be better if you gave him/us your ideal preferences and music genres and let him tell you which earbuds suit


----------



## vladstef

Matarro said:


> Since it became clear that my **** PT15 weren't the old version so the flaws I perceived weren't due to that, I have tinkered a bit with different foams and even went down the route of hockey-tape to see if I could get a better fit/seal. I actually like them a lot now, even for heavy music. Not sure if I prefer regular foam with some tape underneath as padding or just a donut+thin. Either way it sounds better now and EQ-ing up the bass just a little also helped.
> 
> Or well, it did. But as I was typing this the right one suddenly started rattling. Typical...
> 
> edit: Yep, sounding worse by the minute, Tried the audiocheck test and the right bud is rattling through almost the entire sweep.



This is pretty much becoming a widespread issue with budget earbuds (even some more expensive ones according to some people). As I've said before, the issue is MX type of design and how much modern membranes are moving resulting in small dents on the membrane when it contacts front cover (at first happens when there is a lot of bass and loud volume). Over time, it builds up until membrane is dislodged and rattling becomes constant.
We pretty much need a radical shift towards a dome shaped front cover - PT15 appears to be exactly that but there is a plastic part below metal which is probably flatter.

Here is a photo of PT15 vs MX front cover (found here, around 1000th page):


----------



## jrazmar

seanc6441 said:


> ClieOS has probably 30 TOTL earbuds at a guess... You really gonna subject him to that kind of torture? LMAO
> 
> Might be better if you gave him/us your ideal preferences and music genres and let him tell you which earbuds suit



I see sean. Think you have a point there. I prefer low impedance phones and could sound great with any source amped or not. I really like the NiceHCK DIY Graphene ($29). So maybe something that has the same signature or tonality but TOTL quality. Price can go as high as $300.  Looking at the Ling series but the high ohms does not suit me.


----------



## Matarro

vladstef said:


> This is pretty much becoming a widespread issue with budget earbuds (even some more expensive ones according to some people). As I've said before, the issue is MX type of design and how much modern membranes are moving resulting in small dents on the membrane when it contacts front cover (at first happens when there is a lot of bass and loud volume). Over time, it builds up until membrane is dislodged and rattling becomes constant.
> We pretty much need a radical shift towards a dome shaped front cover - PT15 appears to be exactly that but there is a plastic part below metal which is probably flatter.
> 
> Here is a photo of PT15 vs MX front cover (found here, around 1000th page):



Very interesting! Do you have any examples of buds with such a dome shaped front cover?


----------



## vladstef (Mar 22, 2018)

Matarro said:


> Very interesting! Do you have any examples of buds with such a dome shaped front cover?



Finding examples is actually very hard, there aren't many. There are some that appear to be but are actually quite flat inside similarly to PT15. I think that original Apple earpods from a decade ago had a dome shape.
MX or PK front covers are so popular that from budget to totl stuff, and there are variations which have metal grills and slightly different hole placements.

FENGRU HYCK100 has a beautiful front cover, also new K's Ling earbuds have dome shaped front (not full dome but enough probably to give the driver 1mm of extra breathing room):


----------



## seanc6441

jrazmar said:


> I see sean. Think you have a point there. I prefer low impedance phones and could sound great with any source amped or not. I really like the NiceHCK DIY Graphene ($29). So maybe something that has the same signature or tonality but TOTL quality. Price can go as high as $300.  Looking at the Ling series but the high ohms does not suit me.


The new Cypherus Zoomfred sounds like something you might want reading the opinions on here it's tight punchy bass, clear mids and extended brighter treble. Seem's quite like what others have experienced with the graphenes but at a TOTL level.


----------



## ClieOS

jrazmar said:


> I see sean. Think you have a point there. I prefer low impedance phones and could sound great with any source amped or not. I really like the NiceHCK DIY Graphene ($29). So maybe something that has the same signature or tonality but TOTL quality. Price can go as high as $300.  Looking at the Ling series but the high ohms does not suit me.



If you are looking for a ToTL DIY Graphene sounding earbuds, the first thing that comes to my mind is the MoonDrop Liebesleid. The Ling series will not be what I'll recommend as they are smoother sounding and quite different from the kind of sound signature you are looking for.


----------



## j4100

Matarro said:


> Since it became clear that my **** PT15 weren't the old version so the flaws I perceived weren't due to that, I have tinkered a bit with different foams and even went down the route of hockey-tape to see if I could get a better fit/seal. I actually like them a lot now, even for heavy music. Not sure if I prefer regular foam with some tape underneath as padding or just a donut+thin. Either way it sounds better now and EQ-ing up the bass just a little also helped.
> 
> Or well, it did. But as I was typing this the right one suddenly started rattling. Typical...
> 
> edit: Yep, sounding worse by the minute, Tried the audiocheck test and the right bud is rattling through almost the entire sweep.



Oh no! Sorry to hear. 

I need to experiment with sealing on mine.


----------



## waynes world

ClieOS said:


> If you are looking for a ToTL DIY Graphene sounding earbuds, the first thing that comes to my mind is the MoonDrop Liebesleid. The Ling series will not be what I'll recommend as they are smoother sounding and quite different from the kind of sound signature you are looking for.



I always figured that I was a "smooth" kinda guy, but based on how much I like the $29 NiceHCK DIY Graphene's, who knows. Anyway, thanks for that info. Time for me to start lusting over the Liebesleid!


----------



## j4100

Anyone on here have any of the more recent Blur buds and able to offer some sound impressions? I keep seeing loads of different versions posted on EA by Wong and others, but no-one ever mentions how they sound.


----------



## haiku

I´ll get some V-Master soon. Should also sound veeery nice.....


----------



## chaiyuta

@haiku : V-Master from Thailand, right? If you have a chance going to Thailand, I recommended you try Prakarnniranam Toxic Poison or Nordost Heimdall2, and especially the newest DIY one called 'Miracle' earbuds by Mr. Ssp Sutipong.

Recently I'd a chance to try 'Miracle' buds. It is quite something special. The driver itself is hand-made production. He spent a lot of time in R&D, sorting parts. One of the interesting is its diaphragm is from one of legendary buds and he does further improve by special more coating. In shorts, The driver is not a simply instant driver sold as usual in taobao, aliexpress, or etc.


----------



## ctaxxxx (Mar 22, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> The new Cypherus Zoomfred sounds like something you might want reading the opinions on here it's tight punchy bass, clear mids and extended brighter treble. Seem's quite like what others have experienced with the graphenes but at a TOTL level.


I wouldn't call the treble bright anymore. Before burn in they were pretty bright, but now I don't get that feeling anymore.

Anyone here have trouble with seal and frequency imbalance? The ZoomFred sounds like all the bass is in my right ear. I switched channels and the right ear still sounded bassier. Did a sine sweep with these and the Diomnes, and I had no imbalance issues with the Diomnes. I know the Diomnes housings are larger so they make a really snug fit, so I figured it's mainly a seal issue.

I do have a slight issue with hearing bass in my left ear, but with the ZoomFred it seems amplified and it's so distracting that it's ruining my enjoyment of these buds. I may need need to stick with IEMs for bass after all...


----------



## gazzington

Thinking of getting rose masya or samsara in the sale. My current high end buds are blurs which I love. Which of the two I mentioned are best or am I better off going for shozy no?


----------



## gazzington

Meant bk


----------



## noknok23

gazzington said:


> Thinking of getting rose masya or samsara in the sale. My current high end buds are blurs which I love. Which of the two I mentioned are best or am I better off going for shozy no?


Not sure if there is any better at that point+they all have very different sound sig; it's more of a personal preferences matter and what you look for in your next earbuds...
"Music Preferences:
Metal, classic rock, hip hop, edm"
Samsara is warm fun sound with heavy bass slam but still balanced, good clarity and details... imo it would fit well your music taste. Also a great complement of blur... But that's my logic. You may want more midcentric and analytical earbuds.


----------



## gazzington

Samsara sound like my sort of buds


----------



## seanc6441

gazzington said:


> Thinking of getting rose masya or samsara in the sale. My current high end buds are blurs which I love. Which of the two I mentioned are best or am I better off going for shozy no?


Probably the samsara for its price during the sale is the option to choose.

Remember it is 300ohm though, you need an adequate source.


----------



## Matarro (Mar 22, 2018)

j4100 said:


> Oh no! Sorry to hear.
> 
> I need to experiment with sealing on mine.



Even though I'm bitter I still see the humour of them breaking the exact moment I was writing a post saying how much I liked them now. I'm pretty sure I'm going to order another pair, I just put one in my AE shopping cart.


----------



## snip3r77

ClieOS said:


> Something to "xcited" about
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi bro, can recommend an earbud that is an upgrade from graphene clears? Thanks


----------



## seanc6441

@snip3r77 


ClieOS said:


> If you are looking for a ToTL DIY Graphene sounding earbuds, the first thing that comes to my mind is the MoonDrop Liebesleid. The Ling series will not be what I'll recommend as they are smoother sounding and quite different from the kind of sound signature you are looking for.


----------



## doggiemom

ctaxxxx said:


> I wouldn't call the treble bright anymore. Before burn in they were pretty bright, but now I don't get that feeling anymore.
> 
> Anyone here have trouble with seal and frequency imbalance? The ZoomFred sounds like all the bass is in my right ear. I switched channels and the right ear still sounded bassier. Did a sine sweep with these and the Diomnes, and I had no imbalance issues with the Diomnes. I know the Diomnes housings are larger so they make a really snug fit, so I figured it's mainly a seal issue.
> 
> I do have a slight issue with hearing bass in my left ear, but with the ZoomFred it seems amplified and it's so distracting that it's ruining my enjoyment of these buds. I may need need to stick with IEMs for bass after all...


I have not noticed that, but I haven't listened to them critically since getting them.  (Only listened while doing some work on the computer during a snow day).  Did you try with hooks?  I hate hooks, but maybe could help determine if seal is the problem or not.  Maybe you got a bad set?

My husband said that because of Trump's new tariffs on China I should be careful with buying earbuds since they may arrive with $ due......... I hate that guy!    (Trump, not my husband.  )


----------



## FlyingRhino

Anyone have the white ling and samasara and can make a comparison? The samsara looks really attractive with the sale price, so wondering how much beeter is the white ling upgrade.

Thinking of picking one of these buds up as i generally like a warmish sound with good bass and smooth top end.


----------



## ClieOS

FlyingRhino said:


> Anyone have the white ling and samasara and can make a comparison? The samsara looks really attractive with the sale price, so wondering how much beeter is the white ling upgrade.
> 
> Thinking of picking one of these buds up as i generally like a warmish sound with good bass and smooth top end.



First, we need to take note that Samsara is a series and not just one model - there are actually two models that bear the Samsara name, the 300ohm and the 500ohm. Between them, 500ohm Samsara is the better sounding of the two and pretty much about the level as a flagship ToTL, while 300ohm Samsara is about a top second-tier. White Ling will be more comparable to the 500ohm in overall quality and the main difference is that the 500ohm Samsara is very smooth overall while White Ling is has a more forwarded presentation (though still fairly smooth overall). This makes White Ling a bit more detail on the mid and treble, but less 'grand' in overall presentation.


----------



## chinmie

ClieOS said:


> First, we need to take note that Samsara is a series and not just one model - there are actually two models that bear the Samsara name, the 300ohm and the 500ohm. Between them, 500ohm Samsara is the better sounding of the two and pretty much about the level as a flagship ToTL, while 300ohm Samsara is about a top second-tier. White Ling will be more comparable to the 500ohm in overall quality and the main difference is that the 500ohm Samsara is very smooth overall while White Ling is has a more forwarded presentation (though still fairly smooth overall). This makes White Ling a bit more detail on the mid and treble, but less 'grand' in overall presentation.



how's the Black  Ling icompared to the Poseidon in sound signature? is it comparable in SQ?


----------



## ClieOS

chinmie said:


> how's the Black  Ling icompared to the Poseidon in sound signature? is it comparable in SQ?



Already posted about them awhile back: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1809#post-13974642

Think of all the ToTL earbuds as being a group - White Ling and 500ohm Samsara will be at the lower end of the group, Black Ling will be right in the middle, while Poseidon is right at the top.


----------



## rkw

ClieOS said:


> Already posted about them awhile back: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1809#post-13974642


That was very interesting to me. I was thinking of getting one of the Lings but your conclusion was that K's house sound is not the best choice for classical music (which is my main listening). I want a convincing, realistic reproduction of the sound of live, unamplified acoustic instruments in real life. It should have good dynamics and accurate, neutral balance along with good detail (but not exaggerated beyond what you would hear in a live classical concert). Do Shozy BK and Moondrop Liebesleid fit this description?


----------



## zeta555

chinmie said:


> i don't have the Poseidon, but i had a chance auditioning them when i met @zeta555 a while ago (great guy. thanks bro!)
> 
> i forgot what foam he used, i think it was the stock ones, so regular thickness i presume.
> I use hiegi full foams on my Liebesleid.
> ...



you used the donut foam if I'm not mistaken. you should try the poseidon with a bright source. much better than from my Sony. lol



seanc6441 said:


> Because I love using the thinnest foams possible in a sense I opt for balanced-darker buds sometimes and let the thin foams bump up the treble and control the bass somewhat. So while the signature of the liebesleid sounds good to me, in practice I might actually prefer the poseidon with thin foams.
> 
> I really dislike what heigi foams (full and donut) do to the sound for my ears, they seem to dampen the airyness being more sealed. That’s why I love thin foams, they really provide the most transparent and airy sound.
> 
> ...


I'm selling my poseidon, well, all my earbud to be honest. maybe i'll be back when there's some new interesting buds (nirvana?)



ClieOS said:


> Something to "xcited" about
> 
> 
> 
> ...


how's the sound?


----------



## ClieOS

rkw said:


> Do Shozy BK and Moondrop Liebesleid fit this description?



I listen to classical mostly on Etymotic ER4S, so that's my gold standard - that being said, the only earbud for classical that measures up is the Rose Tech. Mojito. On the same line of thinking, Liebesleid will be better than BK for classical. However, if you like your classical more to the slightly warmer side of things (i.e. PK1), then BK will be a better choice.



zeta555 said:


> how's the sound?



To sum it up into one word: *AMAZING*.


----------



## FlyingRhino

ClieOS said:


> First, we need to take note that Samsara is a series and not just one model - there are actually two models that bear the Samsara name, the 300ohm and the 500ohm. Between them, 500ohm Samsara is the better sounding of the two and pretty much about the level as a flagship ToTL, while 300ohm Samsara is about a top second-tier. White Ling will be more comparable to the 500ohm in overall quality and the main difference is that the 500ohm Samsara is very smooth overall while White Ling is has a more forwarded presentation (though still fairly smooth overall). This makes White Ling a bit more detail on the mid and treble, but less 'grand' in overall presentation.


Is the k500 samsara this one? 
K's Earphone 500 ohm 2.5mm Balanced Plug Two Type High Impedance In Ear Earphone Earbud 500 ohms Earbud Flat Head
http://s.aliexpress.com/nu2yArim?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard

Andbwnyone know if the lgg6 (quad dac) can drive them well?


----------



## ClieOS

FlyingRhino said:


> Is the k500 samsara this one?



Can't say for sure. The cable seems to be different in color than mine.


----------



## zeta555

ClieOS said:


> To sum it up into one word: *AMAZING*.


elaborate please


----------



## snip3r77

ClieOS said:


> I listen to classical mostly on Etymotic ER4S, so that's my gold standard - that being said, the only earbud for classical that measures up is the Rose Tech. Mojito. On the same line of thinking, Liebesleid will be better than BK for classical. However, if you like your classical more to the slightly warmer side of things (i.e. PK1), then BK will be a better choice.
> 
> 
> 
> To sum it up into one word: *AMAZING*.



The Moondrop Liexxxxx is too expensive any value offerings that are a step up from Graphene?


----------



## ballog (Mar 23, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> Can't say for sure. The cable seems to be different in color than mine.


I am only seeing the K's 300 in Samsara version on Ali. Could anyone here please help clarify? Really looking forward to get either the K300 or K500 in Samsara edition for the Ali Sale.


----------



## chinmie

ClieOS said:


> I listen to classical mostly on Etymotic ER4S, so that's my gold standard - that being said, the only earbud for classical that measures up is the Rose Tech. Mojito. On the same line of thinking, Liebesleid will be better than BK for classical. However, if you like your classical more to the slightly warmer side of things (i.e. PK1), then BK will be a better choice.
> 
> 
> 
> To sum it up into one word: *AMAZING*.



My gold standard is the ER4XR for modern music


----------



## chinmie

zeta555 said:


> you used the donut foam if I'm not mistaken. you should try the poseidon with a bright source. much better than from my Sony. lol



Too bad i don't have 4.4mm adapter to try your poseidon with my gears


----------



## zeta555

chinmie said:


> Too bad i don't have 4.4mm adapter to try your poseidon with my gears


yeah, i just got my adapter myself. 

it's amazing isn't it, that people here have a hard time buying the poseidon while there's a couple of them in jakarta.


----------



## chaiyuta

@chinmie @zeta555 : Send poseidon to me I am always ready to try.


----------



## ClieOS

zeta555 said:


> elaborate please



This is still very early to draw any conclusion or even make any real assessment since I just got it yesterday. As usual, I want it to get a few days worth of burn in just to settle things down a bit. But it is safe to say that Simphonio (same company as Sunrise) has created a worthy upgrade of the original SW-Dragon 2 (which was the only earbud that was in direct competition with Yuin PK1 at the time). More detail will come after I have enough listening time, but suffice to say the 3 yrs of R&D they spent is well justified - as we are looking at another very top level earbud here.



snip3r77 said:


> The Moondrop Liexxxxx is too expensive any value offerings that are a step up from Graphene?



Another choice will be VX Pro, also from MoonDrop. It has an even more neutral sound than liebesleid, but not as grand or refined a presentation. However, it is still an excellent choice for classical music IMO.



ballog said:


> I am only seeing the K's 300 in Samsara version on Ali. Could anyone here please help clarify? Really looking forward to get either the K300 or K500 in Samsara edition for the Ali Sale.



Originally, there was the K series (i.e. K64) that is the lower end of the line up, then there was the Samsara series that is the higher end (and later joined by Poseidon and Lings). Unfortunately everything got lost in translation after Ali sellers randomlunch adopt all different ways of naming.



chinmie said:


> My gold standard is the ER4XR for modern music



Took me awhile, but I have found the golden pairing with ER4S and the now discontinued JDS Labs C421-AD8620. I dare to say neither ER4SR or XR can touch the combo.


----------



## zeta555

chaiyuta said:


> @chinmie @zeta555 : Send poseidon to me I am always ready to try.


where do you live? i'm selling it, so i can't really send it far away just in case someone want to buy it. lol



ClieOS said:


> This is still very early to draw any conclusion or even make any real assessment since I just got it yesterday. As usual, I want it to get a few days worth of burn in just to settle things down a bit. But it is safe to say that Simphonio (same company as Sunrise) has created a worthy upgrade of the original SW-Dragon 2 (which was the only earbud that was in direct competition with Yuin PK1 at the time). More detail will come after I have enough listening time, but suffice to say the 3 yrs of R&D they spent is well justified - as we are looking at another very top level earbud here.


well, thats super interesting. i'll be waiting for your full impression then!


----------



## kurtextrem

Thank you for all the comparisons @ClieOS 

One question though, which soundstage is more spacious (or 3d sounding), Shozy BK or K's White Ling?


----------



## snip3r77

ClieOS said:


> Another choice will be VX Pro, also from MoonDrop. It has an even more neutral sound than liebesleid, but not as grand or refined a presentation. However, it is still an excellent choice for classical music IMO.



Does it have any bass heft?


----------



## chaiyuta

@zeta555 : I live in Thailand. By the way, I am just pulling your leg.


----------



## ClieOS

kurtextrem said:


> Thank you for all the comparisons @ClieOS
> 
> One question though, which soundstage is more spacious (or 3d sounding), Shozy BK or K's White Ling?



White Ling, though not by a big margin.




snip3r77 said:


> Does it have any bass heft?



bass quantity is fairly neutral.


----------



## kurtextrem

ClieOS said:


> White Ling, though not by a big margin.



Have you heard the BS1 yet? For me in games (shooters) I find the positional sound is WAAAAY better than on Shozy BK. When I go back to the BK, it feels like the sound is directly in front of my head instead of around (or left/right).
Any chance to compare White Ling to BS1?


----------



## ClieOS

It depends, 

With the back vents covered (by foam), BS-1's soundstage suffers and only a bit better than White Ling. With the back vents unobstructed, BS-1's soundstage is indeed noticeably bigger than both White Ling and BK. However, the opposite is true for mid-range texture which improves with the vents covered and degrades with vents opened. As far as overall balance goes, I think BS-1 is better than White Ling for sure. But I personally would rate the White Ling slightly higher mainly because I don't find BS-1 excels in any particular area (even though the overall balance of all aspects is pretty good). I guess you can say it lacks just a bit of wow factor for me.


----------



## chaiyuta

ClieOS said:


> I don't find BS-1 excels in any particular area.


Agreed. I share your opinion.


----------



## chinmie

ClieOS said:


> I don't find BS-1 excels in any particular area





chaiyuta said:


> Agreed. I share your opinion.



Same here. I thought so too


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 23, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> It depends,
> 
> With the back vents covered (by foam), BS-1's soundstage suffers and only a bit better than White Ling. With the back vents unobstructed, BS-1's soundstage is indeed noticeably bigger than both White Ling and BK. However, the opposite is true for mid-range texture which improves with the vents covered and degrades with vents opened. As far as overall balance goes, I think BS-1 is better than White Ling for sure. But I personally would rate the White Ling slightly higher mainly because I don't find BS-1 excels in any particular area (even though the overall balance of all aspects is pretty good). I guess you can say it lacks just a bit of wow factor for me.


I think with the vents covered the mid bass and low mids take an emphasis and uncovered the treble becomes airy and indeed the sound is more spacious and the sub bass is a little more prominent.

I think you can regain some texture with thin foams like the aliexpress ones which unlike the monk foams, do not smooth out the sound as much. Or use thin foams and cover the vent as it will be more breathable than thick foams (tried this now, it`s a nice balance between texture and spaciousness) giving you some breathing room but also some low mid texture.

I think the imaging and depth of sound is above average which I would consider as this buds best feature, but it has some tonality flaws in stock form.

I do agree though that overall it's an all rounder rather than a specialist, which is more impressive for people who want this as their only premium earbud but less impressive for people with many looking to find more niche earbuds for different uses.

Although at the price of $99 I think it´s a high performing earbud with the right tweaks.


----------



## mochill

Dragon 2 plus will be epic


----------



## Merlin-PT (Mar 23, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> First, we need to take note that Samsara is a series and not just one model - there are actually two models that bear the Samsara name, the 300ohm and the 500ohm. Between them, 500ohm Samsara is the better sounding of the two and pretty much about the level as a flagship ToTL, while 300ohm Samsara is about a top second-tier. White Ling will be more comparable to the 500ohm in overall quality and the main difference is that the 500ohm Samsara is very smooth overall while White Ling is has a more forwarded presentation (though still fairly smooth overall). This makes White Ling a bit more detail on the mid and treble, but less 'grand' in overall presentation.



I don't have any of them, so I really don't know, but I was under the impression the samsara models were 300 and 600 ohms, weren't they both released after k500?
Could you please order them by your personal preference (k500, samsara k300, k600)?


----------



## HungryPanda

I prefer K's 600 above my K's 300 and K's 300 above my K's 200


----------



## Merlin-PT

Is your k300 the normal version or the samsara k300?

From K's, I only have:
K300 old driver (normal version from early 2017 - not samsara)
k300 new driver (normal version from 2018 - not samsara)
k300 pro
k64

From these I prefer k300 old driver, they are much more detailed.
The others still sound good, but are much less detailed, maybe I got lucky in the 1rst k300 I got.
From what I remember, I didn't like k64 much, never used it again.


----------



## jrazmar

Any link for a complete review of Shozy BK Blue/Limited Edition? I might get one from Penon. Does the cable make any difference in sound?


----------



## ClieOS

jrazmar said:


> Any link for a complete review of Shozy BK Blue/Limited Edition? I might get one from Penon. Does the cable make any difference in sound?



Yes, the cable makes a difference in sound, given it is the only difference between the regular and the limited edition BK. However, as I have somewhat said before, double the price doesn't equal to double the goodness.


----------



## ClieOS

Merlin-PT said:


> I don't have any of them, so I really don't know, but I was under the impression the samsara models were 300 and 600 ohms, weren't they both released after k500?
> Could you please order them by your personal preference (k500, samsara k300, k600)?



600ohm is actually not the Samsara series. AFAIK, Samsara series only has 3 models, the 300ohm and the 500ohm (sometimes it is also referred as the 520ohm), plus the one with the shiny metal wrapping on the housing, which has no official English name. K series has K300, K200 (discontinued), K64, and K32. I don't have the 600ohm so I can't tell you much about it.


----------



## golov17

https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=a2141.7631565.0.0&id=557799084201


----------



## jrazmar (Mar 24, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> Yes, the cable makes a difference in sound, given it is the only difference between the regular and the limited edition BK. However, as I have somewhat said before, double the price doesn't equal to double the goodness.



Thanks ClieOS. So based on your personal listening time so far, where will you place the Blue BK in your ranking? You have placed the Balanced BK so high up there with the Champions. Did it change now that you have heard the likes of Liebesleid, Poseidon, the K's Black Ling or the Dragon 2 among others? If the Blue BK has its place up there at the top, I might finally have my first TOTL earphones. The Moondrops are not accessible for me except the Black Ling but AE doesn't accept Paypal. Hope you can provide some info on this. Thanks.


----------



## ClieOS

A regular balanced BK is still among the best, though maybe not _THE_ best. I think so far I'll say the same for BK blue. There are certainly some area that it has improved upon the regular BK, but at the same time it also loses a little bit of magic that BK has on somewhere else. All and all, the improvement has some trade off. I'll write a more completed comparison tonight.


----------



## jrazmar (Mar 24, 2018)

Thanks ClieOS. So you're probably right about the price markup not being proportional to the increase in sound quality + some trade offs. Curious about these trade-offs. Also wondering if the cable upgrade has increased soundstage. Looking forward to your write up about the Blue BK. If you can include something about the regular BK on single-ended mode on your overall ranking, that would be very helpful as well.


----------



## XP_98

jrazmar said:


> Thanks ClieOS. So you're probably right about the price markup not being proportional to the increase in sound quality + some trade offs. Curious about these trade-offs. Also wondering if the cable upgrade has increased soundstage. Looking forward to your write up about the Blue BK. If you can include something about the regular BK on single-ended mode on your overall ranking, that would be very helpful as well.


+ 1


----------



## noknok23

golov17 said:


> https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=a2141.7631565.0.0&id=557799084201


it seems K's 500/520 wasn't released on aliexpress... I will ask some seller if they can sell it


----------



## Townyj

Whats up all, been a while


----------



## seanc6441

Townyj said:


> Whats up all, been a while



Welcome back!

Getting back into earbuds? Never a better time


----------



## Townyj

seanc6441 said:


> Welcome back!
> 
> Getting back into earbuds? Never a better time




Hahah not to sure about that, i will need to clear a few out if i do


----------



## Majin

just in time for the AE sale 

Are the PMV B01 AOEDE any good? it is almost 50% discount during the sale.


----------



## ClieOS

jrazmar said:


> Thanks ClieOS. So you're probably right about the price markup not being proportional to the increase in sound quality + some trade offs. Curious about these trade-offs. Also wondering if the cable upgrade has increased soundstage. Looking forward to your write up about the Blue BK. If you can include something about the regular BK on single-ended mode on your overall ranking, that would be very helpful as well.



Let get to the basic first: regular BK single-ended vs. balanced. As some of you BK owner knows, BK doesn't have the biggest soundstage around. Its strongest point is really in its mid (as I have seen some of you described it as being an "analog" sound). However, when in balanced and thanks to the complete channel separation, two things happen - First, the soundstage widens and deepens by around 10~15%. Not much by any means, but it is enough to rebalance the whole presentation without ruining the beautiful mid-range while gives a really "grand" feeling. In contrast, the regular BK often makes me feel just a bit too intimate. The second thing is that the bass range also tightens up a bit with a more solid and precise hit. Again, the improvement is small but just enough to rebalance the presentation. When we talk about ToTL earbuds that are neck and neck in SQ, I think these tiny bit of differences are enough to set things apart, hence why I always said that BK is really in its best element when driven in balanced.

Now let talk about BK blue and the magic of pure silver cable - the main difference between blue and the regular BK is that the pure silver cable has in a way 'corrected' the only weakness of BK, which as we discussed above is the fact that BK doesn't have a very big soundstage (*though the blue does more than that). Even in single-ended setup, blue's soundstage is already almost as big as regular BK in balanced. Adding to that, it also comes with more texture/detail over the entire frequency range, as if all the background notes in the regular BK are lifted to the front. This can be both a good or a bad thing depends on whether you like the original BK's presentation or not. If you really like BK's beautiful midrange, then the extra detail and texture can become somewhat of a distraction. However, If we were to forget about original BK all together, the blue on its own is still a really excellent sounding earbud despite sounding less "analog-ish" and more to the "rich" side of things. But when blue is driven in balanced, things take a turn of the worst - ever heard people say that something can become too much of a good thing? Well, it applies here. Instead of a mere distraction, it turns into somewhat of an "exaggeration" and takes away the main strength of the BK driver. In that sense, I really won't recommend BK blue for balance use. But for single-ended, I think it can consider a small upgrade over BK - small in the sense that regular BK is already a ToTL earbud and any room for improvement is naturally not going to be big unless someone starts making BK in quantum cable that completely destroy our understanding of reality.


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> Let get to the basic first: regular BK single-ended vs. balanced. As some of you BK owner knows, BK doesn't have the biggest soundstage around. Its strongest point is really in its mid (as I have seen some of you described it as being an "analog" sound). However, when in balanced and thanks to the complete channel separation, two things happen - First, the soundstage widens and deepens by around 10~15%. Not much by any means, but it is enough to rebalance the whole presentation without ruining the beautiful mid-range while gives a really "grand" feeling. In contrast, the regular BK often makes me feel just a bit too intimate. The second thing is that the bass range also tightens up a bit with a more solid and precise hit. Again, the improvement is small but just enough to rebalance the presentation. When we talk about ToTL earbuds that are neck and neck in SQ, I think these tiny bit of differences are enough to set things apart, hence why I always said that BK is really in its best element when driven in balanced.
> 
> Now let talk about BK blue and the magic of pure silver cable - the main difference between blue and the regular BK is that the pure silver cable has in a way 'corrected' the only weakness of BK, which as we discussed above is the fact that BK doesn't have a very big soundstage (*though the blue does more than that). Even in single-ended setup, blue's soundstage is already almost as big as regular BK in balanced. Adding to that, it also comes with more texture/detail over the entire frequency range, as if all the background notes in the regular BK are lifted to the front. This can be both a good or a bad thing depends on whether you like the original BK's presentation or not. If you really like BK's beautiful midrange, then the extra detail and texture can become somewhat of a distraction. However, If we were to forget about original BK all together, the blue on its own is still a really excellent sounding earbud despite sounding less "analog-ish" and more to the "rich" side of things. But when blue is driven in balanced, things take a turn of the worst - ever heard people say that something can become too much of a good thing? Well, it applies here. Instead of a mere distraction, it turns into somewhat of an "exaggeration" and takes away the main strength of the BK driver. In that sense, I really won't recommend BK blue for balance use. But for single-ended, I think it can consider a small upgrade over BK - small in the sense that regular BK is already a ToTL earbud and any room for improvement is naturally not going to be big unless someone starts making BK in quantum cable that completely destroy our understanding of reality.



Great review now I understand completely the differences at play here.

I really need a balanced regular BK then... I absolutely love the BK sound but I wish the soundstage was a little bigger.

Right off to get a balanced dap first lol


----------



## mbwilson111

Majin said:


> just in time for the AE sale
> 
> Are the PMV B01 AOEDE any good? it is almost 50% discount during the sale.



I like mine.  I bought them after reading this review:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/pmv-b01-aoede.22436/reviews#review-18716


----------



## jrazmar

ClieOS said:


> Let get to the basic first: regular BK single-ended vs. balanced. As some of you BK owner knows, BK doesn't have the biggest soundstage around. Its strongest point is really in its mid (as I have seen some of you described it as being an "analog" sound). However, when in balanced and thanks to the complete channel separation, two things happen - First, the soundstage widens and deepens by around 10~15%. Not much by any means, but it is enough to rebalance the whole presentation without ruining the beautiful mid-range while gives a really "grand" feeling. In contrast, the regular BK often makes me feel just a bit too intimate. The second thing is that the bass range also tightens up a bit with a more solid and precise hit. Again, the improvement is small but just enough to rebalance the presentation. When we talk about ToTL earbuds that are neck and neck in SQ, I think these tiny bit of differences are enough to set things apart, hence why I always said that BK is really in its best element when driven in balanced.
> 
> Now let talk about BK blue and the magic of pure silver cable - the main difference between blue and the regular BK is that the pure silver cable has in a way 'corrected' the only weakness of BK, which as we discussed above is the fact that BK doesn't have a very big soundstage (*though the blue does more than that). Even in single-ended setup, blue's soundstage is already almost as big as regular BK in balanced. Adding to that, it also comes with more texture/detail over the entire frequency range, as if all the background notes in the regular BK are lifted to the front. This can be both a good or a bad thing depends on whether you like the original BK's presentation or not. If you really like BK's beautiful midrange, then the extra detail and texture can become somewhat of a distraction. However, If we were to forget about original BK all together, the blue on its own is still a really excellent sounding earbud despite sounding less "analog-ish" and more to the "rich" side of things. But when blue is driven in balanced, things take a turn of the worst - ever heard people say that something can become too much of a good thing? Well, it applies here. Instead of a mere distraction, it turns into somewhat of an "exaggeration" and takes away the main strength of the BK driver. In that sense, I really won't recommend BK blue for balance use. But for single-ended, I think it can consider a small upgrade over BK - small in the sense that regular BK is already a ToTL earbud and any room for improvement is naturally not going to be big unless someone starts making BK in quantum cable that completely destroy our understanding of reality.



Thank you ClieOS. That's a very straightforward comparison. This really makes it very easy to decide which of the BK config works best. Wish I could get a balanced one but I dont have a DAP to play it with same as sean. However, I still wonder how the Blue BK/original BK in balanced fares with the Moondrops or the Black Ling with silver cable. Anyhow, Im still leaning towards a low impedance setup such as the BK as I would like to stay portable as much as possible.


----------



## Majin

mbwilson111 said:


> I like mine.  I bought them after reading this review:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/pmv-b01-aoede.22436/reviews#review-18716



Interesting, do you remember how much you paid for them?


----------



## ClieOS

jrazmar said:


> Thank you ClieOS. That's a very straightforward comparison. This really makes it very easy to decide which of the BK config works best. Wish I could get a balanced one but I dont have a DAP to play it with same as sean. However, I still wonder how the Blue BK/original BK in balanced fares with the Moondrops or the Black Ling with silver cable. Anyhow, Im still leaning towards a low impedance setup such as the BK as I would like to stay portable as much as possible.



These days I always try to get everything in 2.5mm balanced plug - not just because that I already have several DAP with balanced 2.5mm, but also the fact adding a small balanced 2.5mm to single-ended 3.5mm adapter is easy and not that intrusive (plus not that expensive). That way I get the best of both worlds.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Mar 24, 2018)

Majin said:


> Interesting, do you remember how much you paid for them?



PMV B01 AOEDE

£21.33 when I got them a few months ago

That would equal $30.15 now but the actual dollar price at the time could have been a little different.


----------



## chinmie

ClieOS said:


> Let get to the basic first: regular BK single-ended vs. balanced. As some of you BK owner knows, BK doesn't have the biggest soundstage around. Its strongest point is really in its mid (as I have seen some of you described it as being an "analog" sound). However, when in balanced and thanks to the complete channel separation, two things happen - First, the soundstage widens and deepens by around 10~15%. Not much by any means, but it is enough to rebalance the whole presentation without ruining the beautiful mid-range while gives a really "grand" feeling. In contrast, the regular BK often makes me feel just a bit too intimate. The second thing is that the bass range also tightens up a bit with a more solid and precise hit. Again, the improvement is small but just enough to rebalance the presentation. When we talk about ToTL earbuds that are neck and neck in SQ, I think these tiny bit of differences are enough to set things apart, hence why I always said that BK is really in its best element when driven in balanced.
> 
> Now let talk about BK blue and the magic of pure silver cable - the main difference between blue and the regular BK is that the pure silver cable has in a way 'corrected' the only weakness of BK, which as we discussed above is the fact that BK doesn't have a very big soundstage (*though the blue does more than that). Even in single-ended setup, blue's soundstage is already almost as big as regular BK in balanced. Adding to that, it also comes with more texture/detail over the entire frequency range, as if all the background notes in the regular BK are lifted to the front. This can be both a good or a bad thing depends on whether you like the original BK's presentation or not. If you really like BK's beautiful midrange, then the extra detail and texture can become somewhat of a distraction. However, If we were to forget about original BK all together, the blue on its own is still a really excellent sounding earbud despite sounding less "analog-ish" and more to the "rich" side of things. But when blue is driven in balanced, things take a turn of the worst - ever heard people say that something can become too much of a good thing? Well, it applies here. Instead of a mere distraction, it turns into somewhat of an "exaggeration" and takes away the main strength of the BK driver. In that sense, I really won't recommend BK blue for balance use. But for single-ended, I think it can consider a small upgrade over BK - small in the sense that regular BK is already a ToTL earbud and any room for improvement is naturally not going to be big unless someone starts making BK in quantum cable that completely destroy our understanding of reality.



Whereas i tried the single ended Liebesleid compared to the balanced, i didn't notice much difference, as the single ended one already has a wide soundstage as it is


----------



## chaiyuta

@ClieOS : I likes how you pick up 'wording' to share your impression. this is quite neutral and not-hype style. You choose 'not' to use luxurious words e.g. spacious, vast, immersive, etc. In my opinion, those words really mislead and be too exaggerated from my understanding. If I will use those words I will use only when I go to 4dx theatre and sink on a full-power speaker system thing~~. In earbuds usage, I've never heard the radius of its soundstage is wider than my straighten arm till my finger distance. IMHO


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> Whereas i tried the single ended Liebesleid compared to the balanced, i didn't notice much difference, as the single ended one already has a wide soundstage as it is


And then there is the matter if source differences as some do balanced better than others etc. Lots of variables.


----------



## Raketen (Mar 24, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> And then there is the matter if source differences as some do balanced better than others etc. Lots of variables.



I believe this is the entire difference when talking about balanced, nothing intrinsic to the headphones themselves (except of course the difference in cable and splitting the ground).


----------



## rkw

Majin said:


> Are the PMV B01 AOEDE any good? it is almost 50% discount during the sale.


I like them a lot and use them as my regular earbuds at work. I paid $30 middle of last year. The upcoming sale price is excellent value.

ClieOS wrote this, which is high praise for something in this price range:


ClieOS said:


> Have it for about a week now. Overall a very good and balanced sounding earbud. Not quite a champion level yet, but it is easily a upper great / contender level. Quite an impressive feat for PMV's first earbud.


----------



## T light

ClieOS said:


> Let get to the basic first: regular BK single-ended vs. balanced. As some of you BK owner knows, BK doesn't have the biggest soundstage around. Its strongest point is really in its mid (as I have seen some of you described it as being an "analog" sound). However, when in balanced and thanks to the complete channel separation, two things happen - First, the soundstage widens and deepens by around 10~15%. Not much by any means, but it is enough to rebalance the whole presentation without ruining the beautiful mid-range while gives a really "grand" feeling. In contrast, the regular BK often makes me feel just a bit too intimate. The second thing is that the bass range also tightens up a bit with a more solid and precise hit. Again, the improvement is small but just enough to rebalance the presentation. When we talk about ToTL earbuds that are neck and neck in SQ, I think these tiny bit of differences are enough to set things apart, hence why I always said that BK is really in its best element when driven in balanced.
> 
> Now let talk about BK blue and the magic of pure silver cable - the main difference between blue and the regular BK is that the pure silver cable has in a way 'corrected' the only weakness of BK, which as we discussed above is the fact that BK doesn't have a very big soundstage (*though the blue does more than that). Even in single-ended setup, blue's soundstage is already almost as big as regular BK in balanced. Adding to that, it also comes with more texture/detail over the entire frequency range, as if all the background notes in the regular BK are lifted to the front. This can be both a good or a bad thing depends on whether you like the original BK's presentation or not. If you really like BK's beautiful midrange, then the extra detail and texture can become somewhat of a distraction. However, If we were to forget about original BK all together, the blue on its own is still a really excellent sounding earbud despite sounding less "analog-ish" and more to the "rich" side of things. But when blue is driven in balanced, things take a turn of the worst - ever heard people say that something can become too much of a good thing? Well, it applies here. Instead of a mere distraction, it turns into somewhat of an "exaggeration" and takes away the main strength of the BK driver. In that sense, I really won't recommend BK blue for balance use. But for single-ended, I think it can consider a small upgrade over BK - small in the sense that regular BK is already a ToTL earbud and any room for improvement is naturally not going to be big unless someone starts making BK in quantum cable that completely destroy our understanding of reality.



Thank you for this detailed comparison.  I really like the sound of the BK balanced buds with the Fiio x7m2.  Kept wondering about the blue version.  This was very helpful.


----------



## Majin

rkw said:


> I like them a lot and use them as my regular earbuds at work. I paid $30 middle of last year. The upcoming sale price is excellent value.
> 
> ClieOS wrote this, which is high praise for something in this price range:
> ​



Oh snap. They are definitely on my to buy list then. Thanks.


----------



## kw8910

ClieOS said:


> These days I always try to get everything in 2.5mm balanced plug - not just because that I already have several DAP with balanced 2.5mm, but also the fact adding a small balanced 2.5mm to single-ended 3.5mm adapter is easy and not that intrusive (plus not that expensive). That way I get the best of both worlds.



Where can I find a balanced 2.5mm to single-ended 3.5mm adapter?


----------



## chaiyuta (Mar 25, 2018)

@kw8910 : Nowadays they are many choices available.
Effect Audio Adapter : Effect audio have straight and L- type adaptor.
Mee Audio Universal MMCX balanced audio cable with adapter set
iBasso CA01 adapter : Tail-Pig Cable type
No-brand Adapter via Penon Site
Even in aliexpress you might find it too.


----------



## ClieOS

kw8910 said:


> Where can I find a balanced 2.5mm to single-ended 3.5mm adapter?



I like this one: 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fiio-releases-the-3-5mm-to-2-5mm-adaptor-cable-l26.826622/


----------



## kw8910

Thanks, I think the Fiio on amazon would be the best bet for me (cheap and easy returns if any issues): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N10RBPW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_ep_dp_QVgUAbHGB6JN7


----------



## kurtextrem

ClieOS said:


> It depends,
> 
> With the back vents covered (by foam), BS-1's soundstage suffers and only a bit better than White Ling. With the back vents unobstructed, BS-1's soundstage is indeed noticeably bigger than both White Ling and BK. However, the opposite is true for mid-range texture which improves with the vents covered and degrades with vents opened. As far as overall balance goes, I think BS-1 is better than White Ling for sure. But I personally would rate the White Ling slightly higher mainly because I don't find BS-1 excels in any particular area (even though the overall balance of all aspects is pretty good). I guess you can say it lacks just a bit of wow factor for me.


Thank you for the answer - my earbud-pull-the-trigger-finger still is not happy. In what does the White Ling excel and do you think it's "worth" the 40$ more compared to BS1?


----------



## RuFrost

ClieOS said:


> Let get to the basic first: regular BK single-ended vs. balanced. As some of you BK owner knows, BK doesn't have the biggest soundstage around. Its strongest point is really in its mid (as I have seen some of you described it as being an "analog" sound). However, when in balanced and thanks to the complete channel separation, two things happen - First, the soundstage widens and deepens by around 10~15%. Not much by any means, but it is enough to rebalance the whole presentation without ruining the beautiful mid-range while gives a really "grand" feeling. In contrast, the regular BK often makes me feel just a bit too intimate. The second thing is that the bass range also tightens up a bit with a more solid and precise hit. Again, the improvement is small but just enough to rebalance the presentation. When we talk about ToTL earbuds that are neck and neck in SQ, I think these tiny bit of differences are enough to set things apart, hence why I always said that BK is really in its best element when driven in balanced.
> 
> Now let talk about BK blue and the magic of pure silver cable - the main difference between blue and the regular BK is that the pure silver cable has in a way 'corrected' the only weakness of BK, which as we discussed above is the fact that BK doesn't have a very big soundstage (*though the blue does more than that). Even in single-ended setup, blue's soundstage is already almost as big as regular BK in balanced. Adding to that, it also comes with more texture/detail over the entire frequency range, as if all the background notes in the regular BK are lifted to the front. This can be both a good or a bad thing depends on whether you like the original BK's presentation or not. If you really like BK's beautiful midrange, then the extra detail and texture can become somewhat of a distraction. However, If we were to forget about original BK all together, the blue on its own is still a really excellent sounding earbud despite sounding less "analog-ish" and more to the "rich" side of things. But when blue is driven in balanced, things take a turn of the worst - ever heard people say that something can become too much of a good thing? Well, it applies here. Instead of a mere distraction, it turns into somewhat of an "exaggeration" and takes away the main strength of the BK driver. In that sense, I really won't recommend BK blue for balance use. But for single-ended, I think it can consider a small upgrade over BK - small in the sense that regular BK is already a ToTL earbud and any room for improvement is naturally not going to be big unless someone starts making BK in quantum cable that completely destroy our understanding of reality.



Thank you so much, ClieOS!
Can you make the same comparison with Shozy Cygnus standard version, limited edition and Shozy BK (standart)?


----------



## boblauer

RuFrost said:


> Thank you so much, ClieOS!
> Can you make the same comparison with Shozy Cygnus standard version, limited edition and Shozy BK (standart)?


Interested in this as well


----------



## seanc6441

The cygnus regular version lacks clarity to be compared to TOTL earbuds that’s all I will say. Going back to it from other earbuds I own it’s just a little dull in the details.

The signature is nice but the lack of clarity and smallish soundstage are not everyones cup of tea.


----------



## boblauer

seanc6441 said:


> The cygnus regular version lacks clarity to be compared to TOTL earbuds that’s all I will say. Going back to it from other earbuds I own it’s just a little dull in the details.
> 
> The signature is nice but the lack of clarity and smallish soundstage are not everyones cup of tea.


Have you heard the LE version Sean? Yuin shells fit me much better so I think I'm going to sell most of my MX500 shell styles and replace with one nicer Yuin style, still have a fuzzy place for the PK1!


----------



## seanc6441

boblauer said:


> Have you heard the LE version Sean? Yuin shells fit me much better so I think I'm going to sell most of my MX500 shell styles and replace with one nicer Yuin style, still have a fuzzy place for the PK1!


sorry have not, one in FS section now


----------



## boblauer

seanc6441 said:


> sorry have not, one in FS section now


Yep I know that's why I ask, itchy trigger finger. I guess I was hoping the silver cable would open up the soundstage a bit.


----------



## seanc6441

boblauer said:


> Yep I know that's why I ask, itchy trigger finger. I guess I was hoping the silver cable would open up the soundstage a bit.


ClieOS mentioned it before if you try the search function you’ll find it


----------



## fairx

Puresounds 500 or k's 500 for AE sale? Or straight to k's 300 samsara? Hmm mm......


----------



## chinmie

fairx said:


> Puresounds 500 or k's 500 for AE sale? Or straight to k's 300 samsara? Hmm mm......


puresounds if you like more balanced sound, samsara if you like bigger bass


----------



## chinmie

kurtextrem said:


> Thank you for the answer - my earbud-pull-the-trigger-finger still is not happy. In what does the White Ling excel and do you think it's "worth" the 40$ more compared to BS1?



the BS1 has a more coherent sound, the white ling has a weird nasally hollow mids..might be okay for classical or instrumental, but i don't particularly like it for vocals


----------



## krunchcrispy

Can anyone compare K's 500 and Shozy BK? Or did I miss that in an earlier post. . .?   Reading BloodyPenguin's older reviews, he exalts K's 500's mid-range (and I have found his reviews to be quite accurate to what I hear), and since ClieOS and Sean find the Shozy's mid-range its strength, but lacks soundstage expansion, maybe K's 500 is a good buy. ???


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> the BS1 has a more coherent sound, the white ling has a weird nasally hollow mids..might be okay for classical or instrumental, but i don't particularly like it for vocals


I’d say neither are perfect vocal earbuds, each have some flaws in the midrange. I feel sorry for hyping the bs1 so much but at the time it sounded great but after analysising it’s sound compared to my other buds there’s no denying it isn’t perfect. But hey it’s still a worthy bud for the price with some good clarity and imaging.

I’m looking to get the Hiby R6 dap so I’ll see how it plays off that before I decide how often I use it 

Sometimes variety is nice!


----------



## seanc6441

krunchcrispy said:


> Can anyone compare K's 500 and Shozy BK? Or did I miss that in an earlier post. . .?   Reading BloodyPenguin's older reviews, he exalts K's 500's mid-range (and I have found his reviews to be quite accurate to what I hear), and since ClieOS and Sean find the Shozy's mid-range its strength, but lacks soundstage expansion, maybe K's 500 is a good buy. ???


Depends on your source and how much you value the soundstage spaciousness I guess.

As ClieOS said if you can run the BK in balanced version with a source that have good soundstage qualities it may sound big enough for your liking, if not maybe look at other buds.

I have the 3.5mm BK and the soundstage is pretty small or within the headspace instead of outside it.


----------



## ClieOS

chinmie said:


> the BS1 has a more coherent sound, the white ling has a weird nasally hollow mids..might be okay for classical or instrumental, but i don't particularly like it for vocals



Not sure if this could be your case or not, but I find White Ling very picky about fit. As I said on my impression, it can sound hollow when it is not in the right place. You need to get a really good seal (*recommending donut foam here) and point it directly into your ear canal for it to sound very full and as I believe, that's the real sound signature of White Ling.


----------



## krunchcrispy

seanc6441 said:


> Depends on your source and how much you value the soundstage spaciousness I guess.
> 
> As ClieOS said if you can run the BK in balanced version with a source that have good soundstage qualities it may sound big enough for your liking, if not maybe look at other buds.
> 
> I have the 3.5mm BK and the soundstage is pretty small or within the headspace instead of outside it.


Yeah, this is what I read before, so I was wondering if the K's 500 mids compare to the BK, as the BK balanced is quite a bit more expensive than the K's on sale in a few days.


----------



## AmericanEDC (Mar 26, 2018)

I'm VERY new to this, but just took delivery of 5 pair of recommended buds (thanks everyone on here seanc6441 and others). I had mentioned that I thought myself a little sensitive to sibilance. Now I have a LOT of listening to do. And choosing. I plan to order up at least a couple during the AllieExpress Anniversary sale. Maybe on the higher end. I'm reading this forum carefully to try and pick, especially in comparison to what I now own.

I realize these are at the bottom of the scale for price, but especially those interested in creating a baseline for sound might find this helpful. Or starting a small collection. Hah!

I'll post my impressions if anyone is interested as I make notes. I think I have a good ear as I'm reading reviews that describe exactly what I'm hearing and how I would describe each pair as I listen to them. PLEASE FORGIVE any lack of vocabulary I have to describe what I'm hearing. I'll do my best.

I'm listening right now on iPhone X, but will get these amp'd soon. The F150C isn't sounding very good. Seems muddy. I'm thinking that's the reason.

For anyone wanting price I paid (cheaper on upcoming sale), model AND link here it is all in one place! I made hyperlinks using the text editor but also included the link text.

$9.90 My first delivery, came from Amazon. I've been listening to exclusively since for about 2 weeks.
Venture Electronics VE MONK Plus earbud - earphone - smoke-no mic 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N5RBJCH/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
(very decent bass, sounds definitely weighted to the low end. Not enjoying The Sundays, "Here's Where the Story Ends", switching to Moondrop.

$23.90
 2017 Newest MoonDrop Nameless Metal Earbud HIFI Fever DJ Bass Earphone Balanced HIFI 13.5mm Dynamic Driver Earbud Free Shipping 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...Balanced-HIFI-13-5mm-Dynamic/32830971670.html
(much less lower or sub-bass than either MONK + or F150C, more forward mids and way more sparkle at higher frequencies. Harriet Wheeler voice much nicer here. How the heck are these supposed to fit in an ear? My ears are large and these things are huge. The only way they fit is angling them, but they sound great. I keep returning to them. They seem very crisp. On a side note, sort of loving the translucent copper cable. It just looks nice. "YYZ" Rush...definitely sounds better on the RX-1 with more bass.

$19.90
 Hot Seahf AWK-F150C High Impedance In Ear Earphone Earbud 150 ohms Earbud Headset Flat Head Plug High Impedance PK Monk Earbud 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...ad-Plug-Earbud-Earphone-High/32653251745.html
(deeper bass than Moondrop and the MONK + if I'm not mistaken, much more recessed and hidden high end. I'm thinking I need to amp these to sound better!)

$23.00
2016 Newest AUGLAMOUR RX-1 In Ear Earphone Flat Head Plug High Quality Full Metal Earbud Headset Free Shipping Support wholesale 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...gh-Quality-Full-Metal-Earbud/32699791827.html
(opening package - something to behold compared to others -  to compare on same The Sundays song...hope they're as good as they look and feel.....wow, some authority. So far these are the Goldilocks buds. Very nice lows and crisp highs, forward mids? They're definitely the ones I would gift on packaging and initial sound. I'm not sure they're as technically competent perhaps with a rounded sound especially compared to the Moodrops. I switched to some jazz. "Clockwise" George Benson...very nice.

$9.80
Original YINCROW X6 3.5mm In-ear Earphones flat Head Earbuds Professional Fever HIFI Earphone Without Mic For iphone 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...uds-Heavy-Bass-Sound-Quality/32809387979.html
(I don't have these delivered yet.)

One thing I'm really realizing is how different these earbuds will sound on different music styles....I see myself reaching for different pair depending on what I'm listening to at the time. Or how I'm listing and which source. I have a tube headphone amp on the way but I see myself listening to earbuds exclusively on the move with a mobile device.


----------



## silverfishla

I was going to do a comparison between the BS1 and the Rose Masya and Mojito.  I have all of these in balanced.  I'm going to scratch that and say that the BS1 does not compete.  Period.  The BS1 is a nice "package" and comes with some nice looking accessories.  It actually (IMO) sounds almost exactly like the BGVP DX3, with maybe a bit more clarity and slight bump in energy.  Somebody else with the BGVP listen to those with the BS1 and tell me I'm not hearing things.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/BGV...b07b91b&transAbTest=ae803_5&priceBeautifyAB=0


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> I’d say neither are perfect vocal earbuds, each have some flaws in the midrange. I feel sorry for hyping the bs1 so much but at the time it sounded great but after analysising it’s sound compared to my other buds there’s no denying it isn’t perfect. But hey it’s still a worthy bud for the price with some good clarity and imaging.
> 
> I’m looking to get the Hiby R6 dap so I’ll see how it plays off that before I decide how often I use it
> 
> Sometimes variety is nice!



When i first heard the BS1, my friend sended his, along with almost ten other high rated level buds (along with the BK, mojito, diomnes, etc), so i got a pretty objective view of it (of course objective for my own taste )

The only thing that i like from the BS1 is the look..it's a gorgeous looking buds.that alone almost made me press the buy button. But from sound, the less than 100usd edimun and red demun tops it (heck, even the willsound mk2 tops it in my book)


----------



## liquidrats

@seanc6441 I finally took it the foams from my bs1, and man why didn't i do that earlier. Someone at canjam sg told me why don't you take it out.. he also let me listen to one of the hand made buds he had and that was pretty good.. only if I know what is his handle.


----------



## chinmie

ClieOS said:


> Not sure if this could be your case or not, but I find White Ling very picky about fit. As I said on my impression, it can sound hollow when it is not in the right place. You need to get a really good seal (*recommending donut foam here) and point it directly into your ear canal for it to sound very full and as I believe, that's the real sound signature of White Ling.



From what i remember when testing it, i tried it also with my finger on the buds, but still feel the sound a bit hollow in the mids.. But maybe that's just my personal preference, because it reminded me to the mojito (also have hollow and distant mids). SQ wise though, i didn't find fault in the white ling.

Just curious, did you also use the white ling with modern music (pop, rock, etc)?


----------



## chaiyuta

I look up to Rholupat site, now there are 2 new coming buds which are Equinox and BEY V.01. If anyone get it, do not hesitate to share your opinion here. 

@chinmie : Yes, if you have a chance to try expensive & notable highend-tier brand & hi-quality local DIY & summit-fi level frequently, you know what exactly it is... and Me too.


----------



## jrazmar

Hi everyone, I'm about to pull the trigger for the Shozy BK "Blue" Limited Edition available at Penon. But before that, can someone compare the sound signature, tonality and strengths/weaknesses against the NiceHCK DIY Graphene buds. I really like how the latter sounds in general and would like to climb up the ladder following the same route as far as sound signature goes. I still have hopes with the Liebesleid but it seems that it's not that widely available. Sadly, not even in AE.


----------



## mochill

jrazmar said:


> Hi everyone, I'm about to pull the trigger for the Shozy BK "Blue" Limited Edition available at Penon. But before that, can someone compare the sound signature, tonality and strengths/weaknesses against the NiceHCK DIY Graphene buds. I really like how the latter sounds in general and would like to climb up the ladder following the same route as far as sound signature goes. I still have hopes with the Liebesleid but it seems that it's not that widely available. Sadly, not even in AE.


Don't hesitate, get it and enjoy


----------



## jrazmar (Mar 27, 2018)

@mochill I am not that rich so I have to think more than twice before I buy any more audio gears but appreciate the encouragement. 
Master ClieOS, I know you are withholding to finally release your Liebesleid/Poseidon/Lings review or ranking in public (or have I missed it? hope not), but based on your preference, where will you place the BK Blue or Balanced Original BK in your overall ranking (so far) against the formerly mentioned earbuds? A "number" will do a lot for me and what is your current #1? I have a really great offer so your inputs would really help me decide. Thank you.


----------



## chaiyuta (Mar 27, 2018)

@jrazmar : If you are going to get Shozy BK Blue 3.5mm., I would like to recommend that if you can get any buds with balanced configuration, please grab that with the following reasons.

1) Using an adapter, balanced can covert to single-end whereas single-end can't convert to balanced. You have more choice to choose what kind of headphone out you more prefer.
2) Each DAP model/brand has their own house sound tonality, sound tendancy, soun signature, whatever you can call. The person who love on a certain brand (e.g. AK, SONY, FiiO, iBasso, Hiby, etc), he will always stick on that brand rather than the opposite house sound one. Therefore Mr. CileOS opinion was just his favourable opinion, it doesn't mean you will as favour as him unless you exactly share identical sound preference.
3) This is your blind-buying. The more versatile you get The more possible you will be not disappointed.

Just my 2 cents..( or lesss than one)


----------



## FlyingRhino

chaiyuta said:


> @jrazmar : Even though Mr. ClieOS recommended you BK Blue 3.5mm. I still insist that if you can get any buds with balanced configuration, please grab that with the following reasons.
> 
> 1) Using an adapter, balanced can covert to single-end whereas single-end can't convert to balanced. You have more choice to choose what kind of headphone out you more prefer.
> 2) Each DAP model/brand has their own house sound tonality, sound tendancy, soun signature, whatever you can call. The person who love on a certain brand (e.g. AK, SONY, FiiO, iBasso, Hiby, etc), he will always stick on that brand rather than the opposite house sound one. Therefore Mr. CileOS opinion was just his favourable opinion, it doesn't mean you will as favour as him unless you exactly share identical sound preference.
> ...


If u use a balance earbud with an adaptor to 3.5mm, will you still get the benefits of "being balanced"?


----------



## ClieOS

chinmie said:


> ...
> Just curious, did you also use the white ling with modern music (pop, rock, etc)?



When the fit is right, I find White Ling almost has a mid-centric quality to it and so goes quite well with the mainstream music. So yes, I do listen to White Ling with pop and rock, which I think is part of its strength.



jrazmar said:


> @mochill I am not that rich so I have to think more than twice before I buy any more audio gears but appreciate the encouragement.
> Master ClieOS, I know you are withholding to finally release your Liebesleid/Poseidon/Lings review or ranking in public (or have I missed it? hope not), but based on your preference, where will you place the BK Blue or Balanced Original BK in your overall ranking (so far) against the formerly mentioned earbuds? A "number" will do a lot for me and what is your current #1? I have a really great offer so your inputs would really help me decide. Thank you.



I really don't do ranking anymore, at least not in the form of a list but only in general categorization. Also not doing any big review or comparison anymore, as I simply don't have the time to do them properly. As far as my opinion goes, I'll say I'll place balanced BK and BK blue in the middle of the top tier (Champion), along with Black Ling, Where Liebesleid and Poseidon belong to the top of the top tier, and I think Simphonio Dragon 2+ probably join them as well.



chaiyuta said:


> @jrazmar : Even though Mr. ClieOS recommended you BK Blue 3.5mm. I still insist that if you can get any buds with balanced configuration, please grab that with the following reasons.
> ....
> Just my 2 cents..( or lesss than one)



A balanced option will be my recommendation as well. You can always use an adapter to convert it to single-ended (which is what I did), but not the other way around. That alone gives you the versatility to try on different configuration for your liking.


----------



## ClieOS

FlyingRhino said:


> If u use a balance earbud with an adaptor to 3.5mm, will you still get the benefits of "being balanced"?



Being balanced means being driven by a balanced source, using an adapter to convert balanced headphone to single-ended will be almost no different from using a normal, single-ended headphone to begin with.


----------



## chinmie

ClieOS said:


> When the fit is right, I find White Ling almost has a mid-centric quality to it and so goes quite well with the mainstream music. So yes, I do listen to White Ling with pop and rock, which I think is part of its strength.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks, i think i didn't give the white long enough justice because i immediately dissed them after 10 minutes fiddling with them and can't get them to my liking. Maybe next time I'll try your advice to really hear their full potential


----------



## chaiyuta (Mar 27, 2018)

FlyingRhino said:


> If u use a balance earbud with an adaptor to 3.5mm, will you still get the benefits of "being balanced"?


Hi Mr.FlyingRhino
The answer is 'no'. you will get the sound quality almost as same as single end plug. The reason I said 'almost' cause an adapter affects on SQ, distortion. Some are not much and might be unnoticeable, while some are noticable.

according to mr.ClieOS impression, he shared that he prefer bk blue sound from 3.5 single end rather than 2.5 balanced out from his DAP.


----------



## jrazmar (Mar 27, 2018)

@ClieOS @chaiyuta Thanks guys for your valuable inputs. Actually I have an offer for Liebesleid that is cheaper than getting the BK Blue SE. Based on what I gathered so far, I think it is a general consensus that the Liebesleid is on the upper side of the sound chain when it comes to overall SQ more than the BK but still, part of the total population might say no. Personally, as of the moment, I'm still leaning towards getting the Shozy because of my comfort experience with using the Cygnus which has the same shell as the BK based on the pictures. Does the Moondrop have comfort/fit issues? I'll be using it while commuting/on the move so fit is also critical and important. The DIY Graphene which I think has a larger shell than the Shozys fits me well. Also, what's the impedance of the Liebesleid?

With this, can anyone point me to a "complete" Liebesleid review (preferably on English language/translation) on the web? Did not see even here at HF.


----------



## chaiyuta

ClieOS said:


> A balanced option will be my recommendation as well. You can always use an adapter to convert it to single-ended (which is what I did), but not the other way around. That alone gives you the versatility to try on different configuration for your liking.


Sorry for my unintentionally accuse on you. I amended the first sentence of my original post. Please accept my apology.


----------



## ClieOS

chaiyuta said:


> Sorry for my unintentionally accuse on you. I amended the first sentence of my original post. Please accept my apology.



What accusation?


----------



## chaiyuta

@ClieOS : 


Spoiler



Even though Mr. ClieOS recommended you BK Blue 3.5mm. I still insist that if you can get any buds with balanced configuration, please grab that with the following reasons.


----------



## FlyingRhino

@ClieOS @chaiyuta thought so, thanks for clarifying. 

So many options at the totl level. Hopefully will get to demo some soon in tokyo based off @chaiyuta store suggestions


----------



## damex

i just had ToneKing TO400S 400ohm earbuds arrive from nicehck.

mmcx is too pushed out. cable does not stay firm (there is a room for wiggle) and mmcx connector is exposed to outside. eidolic connectors very easily roll 360* but stocks have some resistance.

earbuds came a bit scratched on the sides.

they're not bassy. not flat. no peaks. easy to drive despite 400ohm.

foams feel a bit weird. i would say it feels a bit itchy using sock foams. will replace them with hiegi today.

earbuds comfortable to use but with my ears but metallic mmcx connectors touch bottom part of the ear (such construction) and it gets cold when you sit under 20*C aircon  i guess i would need to use heatshrink on connectors.

package is just a box, red&black foams and earbuds with cable attached.

let's see how it performs...


----------



## zeta555

jrazmar said:


> @ClieOS @chaiyuta Thanks guys for your valuable inputs. Actually I have an offer for Liebesleid that is cheaper than getting the BK Blue SE. Based on what I gathered so far, I think it is a general consensus that the Liebesleid is on the upper side of the sound chain when it comes to overall SQ more than the BK but still, part of the total population might say no. Personally, as of the moment, I'm still leaning towards getting the Shozy because of my comfort experience with using the Cygnus which has the same shell as the BK based on the pictures. Does the Moondrop have comfort/fit issues? I'll be using it while commuting/on the move so fit is also critical and important. The DIY Graphene which I think has a larger shell than the Shozys fits me well. Also, what's the impedance of the Liebesleid?
> 
> With this, can anyone point me to a "complete" Liebesleid review (preferably on English language/translation) on the web? Did not see even here at HF.


i think BK and liebesleid is two different sound, you can't really compare it. me personally prefer bk over liebesleid. 
because liebesleid is the opposite of the sound that i like, liebesleid low end is too thin for me while bk have a nice punchy bass


----------



## jrazmar (Mar 27, 2018)

zeta555 said:


> i think BK and liebesleid is two different sound, you can't really compare it. me personally prefer bk over liebesleid.
> because liebesleid is the opposite of the sound that i like, liebesleid low end is too thin for me while bk have a nice punchy bass



I thought I am getting closer to a decision... Thanks @zeta555 for your honest opinion. I found a few japanese reviews of the Liebesleid and they are all favorable and such high praises. Some rated it higher than the BK and the Mojito on overall transparency and resolution. I understand about the bass and how it is constructed to be not on-the-move friendly except when using the silicon pad before the foam. But which of the 2 sounds closer to the DIY Graphene ($29)? That's currently my sound preference. Just finally got the fund to get to the TOTL level. If funds are limited, I may have settled immediately with the original BK.

So far, reading more and more of these differing opinions makes me more confused than helped.


----------



## zeta555

jrazmar said:


> I thought I am getting closer to a decision... Thanks @zeta555 for your honest opinion. I found a few japanese reviews of the Liebesleid and they are all favorable and such high praises. Some rated it higher than the BK and the Mojito on overall transparency and resolution. I understand about the bass and how it is constructed to be not on-the-move friendly except when using the silicon pad before the foam. But which of the 2 sounds closer to the DIY Graphene ($29)? That's currently my sound preference. Just finally got the fund to get to the TOTL level. If funds are limited, I may have settled immediately with the original BK.
> 
> So far, reading more and more of these differing opinions makes me more confused than helped.


i've never tried the graphene. sorry. 

about comfort, i find liebesleid pretty comfortable. no problem of it staying in place. some people have problem about the weight, i personally don't find them that heavy.


----------



## chaiyuta

I am the one who dislike nicehck graphene so much.(though I less talk about it) After I listened it around less than 3 hours, I decided to resale it and lucky that I could resale it successful, so you might need to rely on other people who share similar sound preference. Speaking of graphene, It recalls me about one Head-Fier here who was ever friendly shared his knowledge and opinions said that how much he dislike nicehck graphene earbuds and in that time, some guys here not only disagreed but also confronted & made sarcastic comments on him until he upset and leave this thread. What's a tragedy story.


----------



## seanc6441

chaiyuta said:


> I am the one who dislike nicehck graphene so much.(though I less talk about it) After I listened it around less than 3 hours, I decided to resale it and lucky that I could resale it successful, so you might need to rely on other people who share similar sound preference. Speaking of graphene, It recalls me about one Head-Fier here who was ever friendly shared his knowledge and opinions said that how much he dislike nicehck graphene earbuds and in that time, some guys here not only disagreed but also confronted & made sarcastic comments on him until he upset and leave this thread. What's a tragedy story.


What who?

I’ve also been vocal about disliking the sound of my graphene... Never got that threatment fortunately.


----------



## krunchcrispy

So, anyone able to give a comparison between the mids of the BK and K's 500?  Anyone?


----------



## chaiyuta

seanc6441 said:


> What who?
> 
> I’ve also been vocal about disliking the sound of my graphene... Never got that threatment fortunately.


Warp for you. Here 
and I remembered that you are the one who ever confronted my impression on nicehck graphene sound by quote replying, etc.


----------



## mochill

jrazmar said:


> @mochill I am not that rich so I have to think more than twice before I buy any more audio gears but appreciate the encouragement.
> Master ClieOS, I know you are withholding to finally release your Liebesleid/Poseidon/Lings review or ranking in public (or have I missed it? hope not), but based on your preference, where will you place the BK Blue or Balanced Original BK in your overall ranking (so far) against the formerly mentioned earbuds? A "number" will do a lot for me and what is your current #1? I have a really great offer so your inputs would really help me decide. Thank you.


The blue bk should be a level above the regular so it will be worth it


----------



## B9Scrambler

Master Chief with the new SoundWave Pistol featured in Halo 6.​


----------



## ctaxxxx

Will be posting my ZoomFred up for sale. I can't seem to get around the seal issue with my left ear.

Tried some other buds, and I can't get them to stay in place if the housing is smaller than the Diomnes... Hooks don't seem to help. It's mainly noticeable if the sound signature is bass heavy. Shows how important seal is in bass. Odd though how my right ear doesn't seem stretched out... I'll just stick with IEMs now I guess (the iBasso IT01 fit well, not too big on the vocals though).


----------



## chaiyuta

@ctaxxxx : Talking about IEM housing fit, regardless of sound, I very like QDC neptune IEM fitting most.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 27, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> Warp for you. Here
> and I remembered that you are the one who ever confronted my impression on nicehck graphene sound by quote replying, etc.


confronted? As in I disagreed? I’m confused 

I definitely agree with you about the graphene’s at least the version I heard, maybe I got a sub par one.


----------



## HungryPanda

damex said:


> i just had ToneKing TO400S 400ohm earbuds arrive from nicehck.
> 
> mmcx is too pushed out. cable does not stay firm (there is a room for wiggle) and mmcx connector is exposed to outside. eidolic connectors very easily roll 360* but stocks have some resistance.
> 
> ...


 Received mine yesterday and I am rather impressed with the sound and build quality. The cable is good quality and the connection is tight enough


----------



## chaiyuta

@seanc6441 : From now on, I will be more glad if only you stop tag&quote&reply my post back on every time I share my impression. NICEHCK Graphene is just the start... In case of Penon BS1 is more heavily and make me annoyed.


----------



## noknok23

jrazmar said:


> I thought I am getting closer to a decision... Thanks @zeta555 for your honest opinion. I found a few japanese reviews of the Liebesleid and they are all favorable and such high praises. Some rated it higher than the BK and the Mojito on overall transparency and resolution. I understand about the bass and how it is constructed to be not on-the-move friendly except when using the silicon pad before the foam. But which of the 2 sounds closer to the DIY Graphene ($29)? That's currently my sound preference. Just finally got the fund to get to the TOTL level. If funds are limited, I may have settled immediately with the original BK.
> 
> So far, reading more and more of these differing opinions makes me more confused than helped.


Grapheme is V shaped. Neither bk nor liebesfeld seems to be like this. (Haven't heard both but from description there seems very different)
IMO puresounds 600 may fit the bill but amp is mandatory.


----------



## seanc6441

chaiyuta said:


> @seanc6441 : From now on, I will be more glad if only you stop tag&quote&reply my post back on every time I share my impression. NICEHCK Graphene is just the start... In case of Penon BS1 is more heavily and make me annoyed.


I will try not to in the future sorry for making you feel that way I didn’t intend anything malicious.

Let’s call a truce and move on?


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> Received mine yesterday and I am rather impressed with the sound and build quality. The cable is good quality and the connection is tight enough


Hey these will be in the upcoming sale and I was curious about them. Could you give us some details on the sound signature and maybe comparisons to your EBX and Masya?

Thanks mate, love the look of them btw, really clean finish.


----------



## kw8910 (Mar 27, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Hey these will be in the upcoming sale and I was curious about them. Could you give us some details on the sound signature and maybe comparisons to your EBX and Masya?
> 
> Thanks mate, love the look of them btw, really clean finish.



+1 on EBX comparison to TO400S


----------



## Narayan23

Sean & Chaiyuta did I just read you dislike the graphenes?


----------



## HungryPanda (Mar 27, 2018)

I have to say the Toneking TO400s is a bit more to my liking than the EBX, has a much fuller and more energetic sound. They are very balanced throughout but do kick hard. Reminds of a full size planer magnetic headphone in a way. The EBX is still a great earbud though


----------



## Saoshyant

Hmm, an earbud that could do what my old HE400 could would be a dream.  Somehow I get the feeling I'm only getting my hopes up.


----------



## T light

ctaxxxx said:


> Will be posting my ZoomFred up for sale. I can't seem to get around the seal issue with my left ear.
> 
> Tried some other buds, and I can't get them to stay in place if the housing is smaller than the Diomnes... Hooks don't seem to help. It's mainly noticeable if the sound signature is bass heavy. Shows how important seal is in bass. Odd though how my right ear doesn't seem stretched out... I'll just stick with IEMs now I guess (the iBasso IT01 fit well, not too big on the vocals though).



So is it that the ZoomFred does not stay in your left ear well because they are too small?

I have small ears, and am interested in the ZoomFred but worried about fit.  The Shozy BK size I can get a good seal with.

One of the other was Thinking of getting is the black Ling as they seem from the comments on here to be a smaller size.


----------



## knudsen (Mar 27, 2018)

Personally I hate the graphene, though its the new version I have (18$ I think I gave on sale, which later seemed not really to be a sale). Its unclear, muddy and just sucks. Today I tried it once more and agreed with myself to just throw it out. I've used it probably more than 100 hours, so it's burned in.

Anyone tried Seahf AWK-F400S Pro? I find the AWK-F64 excellent (as several have said), going to buy the F150C on the sale tomorrow and wondering if the F400S is even better. Have searched in the thread, could'nt find much info about it

Edit: the graphene I have is https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...e-Earth-Graphene-Custom-Unit/32839988234.html. I would recommend not buying it, even though its cheap on the coming sale. Not worth 5$ IMO





chaiyuta said:


> I am the one who dislike nicehck graphene so much.(though I less talk about it) After I listened it around less than 3 hours, I decided to resale it and lucky that I could resale it successful, so you might need to rely on other people who share similar sound preference. Speaking of graphene, It recalls me about one Head-Fier here who was ever friendly shared his knowledge and opinions said that how much he dislike nicehck graphene earbuds and in that time, some guys here not only disagreed but also confronted & made sarcastic comments on him until he upset and leave this thread. What's a tragedy story.


----------



## Majin

knudsen said:


> Personally I hate the graphene, though its the new version I have (18$ I think I gave on sale, which later seemed not really to be a sale). Its unclear, muddy and just sucks. Today I tried it once more and agreed with myself to just throw it out. I've used it probably more than 100 hours, so it's burned in.
> 
> Anyone tried Seahf AWK-F400S Pro? I find the AWK-F64 excellent (as several have said), going to buy the F150C on the sale tomorrow and wondering if the F400S is even better. Have searched in the thread, could'nt find much info about it
> 
> Edit: the graphene I have is https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...e-Earth-Graphene-Custom-Unit/32839988234.html. I would recommend not buying it, even though its cheap on the coming sale. Not worth 5$ IMO



Damn I almost ordered the graphenes since they had a nice upcoming discount. Seems there are plenty of other choices that would be better than them.


----------



## knudsen (Mar 27, 2018)

I am merely saying my opinion, I don't claim it is the truth. I had a similar bad impression of some pk2 (don't remember which one), which others found changed greatly for the better with burn-in. But my "budget" graphene is definetly burned in, and to my ears have no great qualities at all, its below average in everything, well maybe except fit. Based on sound I would have guessed the Seahf 64 was 2 or 3 times the price of the graphene, not the other way around.

I remember a review, where the old graphene was described as very similar to the emx500. I've had 3 emx500, and they've been the opposite of my new graphene - clear, crisp and punchy, but they had a quality problem and broke down (still keeping 1 somewhat alive). But the new and old graphene can be nothing alike.



Majin said:


> Damn I almost ordered the graphenes since they had a nice upcoming discount. Seems there are plenty of other choices that would be better than them.


----------



## mbwilson111

Well, now I am going to have to take out my graphenes for a listen...


----------



## ctaxxxx

T light said:


> So is it that the ZoomFred does not stay in your left ear well because they are too small?
> 
> I have small ears, and am interested in the ZoomFred but worried about fit.  The Shozy BK size I can get a good seal with.
> 
> One of the other was Thinking of getting is the black Ling as they seem from the comments on here to be a smaller size.



They're bigger than the Shozy. I think the same as your Zen buds actually. Seal shouldn't be a problem if those are fine. 

I looked at my Diomnes buds, and noticed the left bud twists outward due to the slightly stiff cable (the right bud is fine). So it's possible that after constant use, it pushed out that front flap on my ear making it looser. This is just a guess. I know for sure I can't wear Shozy sized housings anymore though. They just don't stay in lol.


----------



## noknok23

If anyone is interested I wrote a review for the hifiboy dream https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/hifi-boy-dream.22866/reviews



ctaxxxx said:


> They're bigger than the Shozy. I think the same as your Zen buds actually. Seal shouldn't be a problem if those are fine.
> 
> I looked at my Diomnes buds, and noticed the left bud twists outward due to the slightly stiff cable (the right bud is fine). So it's possible that after constant use, it pushed out that front flap on my ear making it looser. This is just a guess. I know for sure I can't wear Shozy sized housings anymore though. They just don't stay in lol.


I have the same issues with Eking, a DIY earbud from vietnam. The cable is too stiff and one earbud would always come out because of this. I'm careful about the build of earbuds now and if the cable isn't soft I pass...


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 27, 2018)

I’m very interested in grabbing the TO400, I haven’t heard a toneking earbud since my tomahawk and the new one is at a pretty resonable and intriguing price during the sale.

I said to myself I won’t start collecting a bunch of midfi buds until I grab something TOTL that I’ll really love but honestly sometimes it’s less about the price and more about the synergy with your gear and your preferences that matter. The 400 (I assume 400 ohm) will be great to test out on my LG V20 and if I get the Hiby R6 I’ll give it a go on that too!

The black ling is interesting me also and by all accounts that one is definitely a TOTL earbud!

Does anyone have a link for the best priced black ling for the sale? If there is more than one seller that is! I have one from ‘AK Audio’ in my basket is that the one to go for? Thanks!


----------



## chinmie

I think the only problem with the Graphene is it was being overhyped. There is nothing particularly wrong with it. It has a unique tuning that you either enjoy or not. It's great for what it is: a $20 earbuds 

My personal reason for letting the graphene go was the fitting, flimsy cable, and the finicky sound


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> I think the only problem with the Graphene is it was being overhyped. There is nothing particularly wrong with it. It has a unique tuning that you either enjoy or not. It's great for what it is: a $20 earbuds
> 
> My personal reason for letting the graphene go was the fitting, flimsy cable, and the finicky sound



So you had the cheaper ones then? I like them and think they are pretty good. But I really like the $29 version (which sound quite a bit different).


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> So you had the cheaper ones then? I like them and think they are pretty good. But I really like the $29 version (which sound quite a bit different).



I had the nicehck clear version. Was that the cheap one or not?


----------



## HungryPanda

These were the first ones before the clear


----------



## jrazmar

Is the Liebesleid that bass-light? I have 2 concerns now getting this over the Blue BK - fit and bass. I'm not a basshead kind of guy but the lack of one is unacceptable. I have the EMX500, DIY Graphene and Cygnus. Those have sufficient bass for my preference. Any advice?


----------



## seanc6441

jrazmar said:


> Is the Liebesleid that bass-light? I have 2 concerns now getting this over the Blue BK - fit and bass. I'm not a basshead kind of guy but the lack of one is unacceptable. I have the EMX500, DIY Graphene and Cygnus. Those have sufficient bass for my preference. Any advice?


The K’s black ling is discounted during the aliexpress sale, maybe consider that one?

Although I’ll never not recommend the Shozy BK for its wonderful analog quality


----------



## mbwilson111 (Mar 28, 2018)

Burning in my NiceHCK DIY Graphene (clear) - the newer cheaper version... I could not remember if I had burned them in when I got them.  Probably not as I got too many at once.  It can be overwhelming to get too many at once.


----------



## ctaxxxx

jrazmar said:


> Is the Liebesleid that bass-light? I have 2 concerns now getting this over the Blue BK - fit and bass. I'm not a basshead kind of guy but the lack of one is unacceptable. I have the EMX500, DIY Graphene and Cygnus. Those have sufficient bass for my preference. Any advice?



It's lighter in bass then the Shozy BK, Diomnes, and Cypherus buds I've owned. It's just a different signature.

I always thought that if the Rose Mojito were the HD800, then the Liebesleid are the HD800S. Warmer tonality in comparison, but it's still an analytical sound signature. 

I think the only reservations I had were it's bass extension, but I'm going on hazy memory at this point. I'll let someone else comment on that.


----------



## chinmie

jrazmar said:


> Is the Liebesleid that bass-light? I have 2 concerns now getting this over the Blue BK - fit and bass. I'm not a basshead kind of guy but the lack of one is unacceptable. I have the EMX500, DIY Graphene and Cygnus. Those have sufficient bass for my preference. Any advice?



If you coming from Vidos and EMX500  then yes, the Liebesleid would seem light on bass. They do extend deep down, and have enough bass volume that i still enjoy listening to massive attack with it. Also they respond well with EQ bass boost if one needs it.

So go for it if you like sub bass extension, but find something else if you prefer large bass volume (Poseidon and other K's buds).


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 27, 2018)

@chinmie that’s a good point some earbuds that don’t distort too much and have quality and extension but just lack a little umph in the bass can be EQ’d slightly to bring it out more, although obviously bass lovers won’t find this enough. Personally I think the Shozy BK has enough bass to satisfy most genres other than EDM/House music but I would never call it a bassy earbud.

Anything less than that may indeed be a little bass light for some. I personally dislike overpowering bass but tight low end extension and a quick control in the bass sounds pretty addictive 

When you hear stuff with some drums/Bass guitar/deep bass thump it really gets you engaged in the music^^


----------



## jrazmar (Mar 27, 2018)

Thanks @ctaxxxx @chinmie @seanc6441 for the comments.

@ctaxxxx So did you end up selling it because of that? Or you still own it at the moment and not plan of selling it because of the other qualities it has?

@chinmie I think I've read somewhere that you love the Liebesleid and it's still in your signature although it may not be updated anymore.Is it your current favorite? Do you think it can play most music genre well despite of being slightly less on bass?

@seanc6441 You have high regards with the BK and you have been consistent with that althroughout this thread. And you have both BS1 and Masya which I previously planned to buy. So I guess there's really something magical with the BK that most people like it one way or another. Clinging to that idea still.....

Personally, I prefer extensions, resolution and tonality rather than bass volume alone. Impact as well is important but usually for me it applies on gaming and movies. For pure music bliss, overall signature is what matters to me.


----------



## doggiemom

mbwilson111 said:


> Burning in my  graphenes which are the new cheaper version... I could not remember if I had burned them in when I got them.  Probably not as I got too many at once.  It can be overwhelming to get too many at once.


I think we have the same label maker.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 27, 2018)

jrazmar said:


> Thanks @ctaxxxx @chinmie @seanc6441 for the comments.
> 
> @ctaxxxx So did you end up selling it because of that? Or you still own it at the moment and not plan of selling it because of the other qualities it has?
> 
> ...


Well I just like the BK for what it does right with neutral- slightly warm lush tone and analog quality, but I cannot say it suits every genre (metal and EDM struggle).

If you want a TOTL earbud that is just great at almost everything maybe the bk isn’t the answer but I personally love it for the tonality and resolution although I don’t think it’s sub bass extension is as good as the Masya or some other TOTL earbuds quite possibly. I really love it’s bass for 70/80s rock and for this kind of natural bass notes because it’s rich and textured bass with a sort of dry quality to it (which I like in this case), some call it a little monotonous (there isn’t huge separation of sub and mid bass notes) but to me it’s ideal for genres of natural bass (nothing electronic mainly).

I’ve changed my tone with the Masya after applying some filter paper until a thin aliexpress foam (the $1 for 100 pack) I’m really addicted to the sound of the Masya now. It’s slightly less bright and harsh and it’s so light and clear still. Very addictive for instrumental and now vocals too. The solution only came to my mind after trying filter paper in my full size HD540 cans to tame the upper mid and treble.

For the earbuds I needed to poke a few holes in the filter to stop the sound becoming too congested for the tiny earbud driver but the filters work a charm imo. I’ll probably take it just above the BS1 for its fit and lighter cable + light energetic sound.

Jrazmar remind me again which earbuds have you liked the most so far? And do you like the MX500 size shell, or preferably something smaller/bigger for comfort?


----------



## jrazmar

My daily driver now is the NiceHCK DIY Graphene. I previously owned VE Zen 1& 2 and now EMX500, Cygnus and Monk+. As fas as I could remember, the graphene has the tastiest sound that I have ever heard in an earphone. That's why with my need to upgrade, I'm looking for something that is within that route as far as sound signature goes. And someone from this thread said that the BK sounds almost the same as the graphene. Still others said in no way. 

Comfort-wise, I don't have issue with these type of shell. The only earphones that I have comfort issue was the Earbell M100. That's my worry with the Liebesleid as it resembles its form somehow someway and I might be biting on something that I might regret later. So I'm thoroughly researching before pulling the golden trigger...


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> @chinmie that’s a good point some earbuds that don’t distort too much and have quality and extension but just lack a little umph in the bass can be EQ’d slightly to bring it out more, although obviously bass lovers won’t find this enough. Personally I think the Shozy BK has enough bass to satisfy most genres other than EDM/House music but I would never call it a bassy earbud.
> 
> Anything less than that may indeed be a little bass light for some. I personally dislike overpowering bass but tight low end extension and a quick control in the bass sounds pretty addictive
> 
> When you hear stuff with some drums/Bass guitar/deep bass thump it really gets you engaged in the music^^



from what I've analyzed, basshead earphones is more about volume, and extension takes second place. that's why some basshead loves the Qian39, while i think it's kinda rolled off in the lows..

i myself prefer sub bass and just enough volume on the midbass to hear the bass guitar notes and the kick drum clicks. too much mid bass gives me a headache 




jrazmar said:


> I think I've read somewhere that you love the Liebesleid and it's still in your signature although it may not be updated anymore.Is it your current favorite? Do you think it can play most music genre well despite of being slightly less on bass?
> 
> Personally, I prefer extensions, resolution and tonality rather than bass volume alone. Impact as well is important but usually for me it applies on gaming and movies. For pure music bliss, overall signature is what matters for me.



it's still updated, and yes, that is still my current favorite. sometimes i like listening to EDM with balanced type buds, and to folk music with the big bass buds like the vido. it's like going through the same road with a car, and then with a bike..same road, different experience, all enjoyable in their own way. you want to go fast, or do you want to enjoy the air and the scenery? 

all buds technically suitable for any music, it's just because of the way they are tuned, they might give more information on certain aspects /frequency of the music while also losing some on the other parts. that's why having at least several different tuned earphones is preferable. 

after all, it's better to play golf with more than one club, right?


----------



## seanc6441

jrazmar said:


> My daily driver now is the NiceHCK DIY Graphene. I previously owned VE Zen 1& 2 and now EMX500, Cygnus and Monk+. As fas as I could remember, the graphene has the tastiest sound that I have ever heard in an earphone. That's why with my need to upgrade, I'm looking for something that is within that route as far as sound signature goes. And someone from this thread said that the BK sounds almost the same as the graphene. Still others said in no way.
> 
> Comfort-wise, I don't have issue with these type of shell. The only earphones that I have comfort issue was the Earbell M100. That's my worry with the Liebesleid as it resembles its form somehow someway and I might be biting on something that I might regret later. So I'm thoroughly researching before pulling the golden trigger...


Well the fact that you are enjoying your graphene over the Zen earbuds suggests that you prefer a brighter tonality or at the very least not a dark one. BK is pretty neutral/balanced imo. It has some qualities of a darker signature like a full bodied mid range and a punchy bass note, but it doesn’t sacrifice the upper frequencies as the treble is airy and nicely extended. To my ears the graphene is more V shaped with a more boomy mid bass and a stronger treble emphasis but the mids are a little recessed especially around the vocal region.

The BK is a little more natural and controlled throughout the frequency range, with less sharp high’s, tighter bass and more balanced natural tonality in the mids.

It’s hard to suggest similar buds to the graphene’s because there are a few variants and it’s hard to say if each seller’s version is the same...

I could say it sounds in between the BK and the Masya but it’s got a different hint of metallic sound to its signature or I guess it’s the graphene sound?

The Toneking Tomahawk has some similarities to that signature so maybe the new Toneking TO400 will follow suit in terms of a slightly bright approach?

Although you’ll have to ask Hungry Panda about that! I’ll be grabbing one during the sale too


----------



## ctaxxxx

jrazmar said:


> So did you end up selling it because of that? Or you still own it at the moment and not plan of selling it because of the other qualities it has?



Kind of. I sold it because it was bass light compared to Cypherus bud, which I mainly owned at the time, but my tastes have changed. It was also 3.5mm, and I now much prefer iBasso's balanced amps. They just sound so much better, surprisingly. 

Still wondering if I should buy it again, since I'm having fit issues now... The small, metal housing was an odd fit. The weight did help though.


----------



## jrazmar (Mar 27, 2018)

chinmie said:


> from what I've analyzed, basshead earphones is more about volume, and extension takes second place. that's why some basshead loves the Qian39, while i think it's kinda rolled off in the lows..
> 
> i myself prefer sub bass and just enough volume on the midbass to hear the bass guitar notes and the kick drum clicks. too much mid bass gives me a headache
> 
> ...



I agree with everything you said but also, I only have 2 ears and sometimes it's a nice feeling to know that you have a reliable companion that you can listen to regardless of your mood. could be a magic carpet ride based on the analogy you've given.  I, too, don't like the feeling of congestion in any way that's why IEM did not work for me, losing those small details that could have heard if enough space between notes and instruments are available within ones head. yes, I guess I prefer the sub-bass impact, the kick and a little oomph here and there but not necessarily bass volume with regards to bass preference. And as long as it does not cloud the rest of the frequency, I'm fine with it.



seanc6441 said:


> Well the fact that you are enjoying your graphene over the Zen earbuds suggests that you prefer a brighter tonality or at the very least not a dark one. BK is pretty neutral/balanced imo. It has some qualities of a darker signature like a full bodied mid range and a punchy bass note, but it doesn’t sacrifice the upper frequencies as the treble is airy and nicely extended. To my ears the graphene is more V shaped with a more boomy mid bass and a stronger treble emphasis but the mids are a little recessed especially around the vocal region.
> 
> The BK is a little more natural and controlled throughout the frequency range, with less sharp high’s, tighter bass and more balanced natural tonality in the mids.
> 
> ...



The Tomahawk did not work for me. Too edgy and striking for my taste and I don't listen to metals. EDM, yes sometimes. I guess whether Liebesleid or BK, I can't be wrong with my decision. Your description of the graphene is spot on. And the BK is perhaps a more mature earphone in that case. It could be an improvement over the graphene in some ways and could be totally different for one's taste. Wish I could hear both before I purchase then deciding would be very, very easy.



ctaxxxx said:


> Kind of. I sold it because it was bass light compared to Cypherus bud, which I mainly owned at the time, but my tastes have changed. It was also 3.5mm, and I now much prefer iBasso's balanced amps. They just sound so much better, surprisingly.
> 
> Still wondering if I should buy it again, since I'm having fit issues now... The small, metal housing was an odd fit. The weight did help though.



Not sure which "it" are you meaning here when you say you want to buy it again but you are having fit issues currently. Is it the Liebesleid or the Cypherus? I'm guessing it's the Liebesleid since you sold it already but not sure with the other things.  Please clarify.


----------



## chinmie

jrazmar said:


> I agree with everything you said but also, I only have 2 ears and sometimes it's a nice feeling to know that you have a reliable companion that you can listen to regardless of your mood. could be a magic carpet ride based on the analogy you've given.  I, too, don't like the feeling of congestion in any way that's why IEM did not work for me, losing those small details that could have heard if enough space between notes and instruments are available within ones head. yes, I guess I prefer the sub-bass impact, the kick and a little oomph here and there but not necessarily bass volume with regards to bass preference. And as long as it does not cloud the rest of the frequency, I'm fine with it.



if i could only have one earbud, then i would be happy with just the Liebesleid alone (and ER4XR for IEM).. and that choice is based on after hearing many earbuds. it is to this day the most suited sound for me. 

i do encourage you to find a fellow in your area that has one so that you can audition them of course.


----------



## seanc6441

@jrazmar honestly I’m with chinmie on this one and I haven’t even heard the liebesleid lol!

The BK in all it’s glory is still a more niche earbud for most, the liebesleid by all accounts has the bigger soundstage and possibly deeper sub bass but less emphasis on the mid bass. So it’s probably more suitable to your tastes if you enjoy a spacious presentation.


----------



## jrazmar (Mar 27, 2018)

chinmie said:


> if i could only have one earbud, then i would be happy with just the Liebesleid alone (and ER4XR for IEM).. and that choice is based on after hearing many earbuds. it is to this day the most suited sound for me.
> 
> i do encourage you to find a fellow in your area that has one so that you can audition them of course.



Got it. So no fit issues so far whatsoever with the Liebesleid? If yes, that might have been contributed to the loss of bass and the like. If none, then you really like the sound sig then.


----------



## jrazmar

seanc6441 said:


> @jrazmar honestly I’m with chinmie on this one and I haven’t even heard the liebesleid lol!
> 
> The BK in all it’s glory is still a more niche earbud for most, the liebesleid by all accounts has the bigger soundstage and possibly deeper sub bass but less emphasis on the mid bass. So it’s probably more suitable to your tastes if you enjoy a spacious presentation.



Agree sean. Liebesleid then. Thank you so much guys. Will head now to the online shop. Wish me luck!


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 28, 2018)

jrazmar said:


> Agree sean. Liebesleid then. Thank you so much guys. Will head now to the online shop. Wish me luck!


Out of curiosity where are you getting it online? Amazon have it but at a very high price and it’s sold out on the Nicehck store on aliexpress



jrazmar said:


> Got it. So no fit issues so far whatsoever with the Liebesleid? If yes, that might have been contributed to the loss of bass and the like. If none, then you really like the sound sig then.


Remember a small earbud can always be tweaked to fit with foams or rings or even foam tape like I used, but a big earbud will always be uncomfortable if it doesn’t fit right.

Atleast for me I always prefer the smaller shell types like the Masya/Shozy and Auglamour RX1 shell. Each are much differently shaped but all small enough that with the right adjustments fit my ears perfectly and sounded thier best with the right fit.


----------



## chinmie

jrazmar said:


> I guess whether Liebesleid or BK, I can't be wrong with my decision.



exactly. you can't really go wrong with TOTLs. each one is special. I just happen to live in earbuds paradise (southeast asia countries) and have access to friends that combined have almost all off TOTL buds, so i can fine tune my choice right down to that one particular buds. 



jrazmar said:


> Got it. So no fit issues so far whatsoever with the Liebesleid? If yes, that might have been contributed to the loss of bass and the like. If none, then you really like the sound sig then.



no issue. I'm using hiegi full foams with it. if i want warmer and more midbass, I'd push them a bit deeper in my ears, and i let it sit a bit outside if i want airier sound. both positions sound good and stable because of the weight of the buds.


----------



## ClieOS

The word "Graphene" is way overused, both by sellers as well as (and especially is) in this thread. Not all graphene earbuds are made by the same maker, nor have the exact same sound. It is really confusing when different people talking about different earbuds but all referring to them as "graphene" without telling us which brand or model they are.


----------



## hatranle

Hi all
Can anybody tell me how to buy K' Poseidon? any link? Tks


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 28, 2018)

Well I just pulled the trigger on the K’s Black Ling (Gold Cable) and the Toneking TO400. Excited as I haven’t received any earbuds in a few months 

I sent a note in my purchase of the black ling to seller asking if he would give me a 2.5mm balanced plug but if not it’s ok just thinking ahead for a balanced dap 

What deals have people gone for so far? I’m curious as to what everyone will choose to buy


----------



## zeta555

hatranle said:


> Hi all
> Can anybody tell me how to buy K' Poseidon? any link? Tks



i have one on sale in the for sale forum



seanc6441 said:


> Well I just pulled the trigger on the K’s Black Ling (Gold Cable) and the Toneking TO400. Excited as I haven’t received any earbuds in a few months
> 
> I sent a note in my purchase of the black ling to seller asking if he would give me a 2.5mm balanced plug but if not it’s ok just thinking ahead for a balanced dap
> 
> What deals have people gone for so far? I’m curious as to what everyone will choose to buy


 
still waiting for clieos review of the dragon 2+ before pulling the trigger.


----------



## seanc6441

zeta555 said:


> i have one on sale in the for sale forum
> 
> 
> 
> still waiting for clieos review of the dragon 2+ before pulling the trigger.


I have not seen that dragon earbud mentioned FS anywhere I’m assuming it’s a diy earbud maker that deals through facebook or something?


----------



## zeta555

seanc6441 said:


> I have not seen that dragon earbud mentioned FS anywhere I’m assuming it’s a diy earbud maker that deals through facebook or something?


you can find one in taobao, several seller have it.


----------



## seanc6441

zeta555 said:


> you can find one in taobao, several seller have it.


mind sharing the price roughly in dollars? even ball park ^^


----------



## zeta555

seanc6441 said:


> mind sharing the price roughly in dollars? even ball park ^^


it's 2000 yuan, so about 320 dollars before forwarder fee, customs, etc


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> I have not seen that dragon earbud mentioned FS anywhere I’m assuming it’s a diy earbud maker that deals through facebook or something?



The maker of Dragon 2+ (also known as SWD2+) is Simphonio, originally known as Sunrise Audio, is a Chinese earbuds company almost as old as Yuin itself, going back over a decade ago. The reason you don't know much about them is that they haven't been much active in the earbud world since their previous flagship SW-Dragon 2 released back in 2012.


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> The maker of Dragon 2+ (also known as SWD2+) is Simphonio, originally known as Sunrise Audio, is a Chinese earbuds company almost as old as Yuin itself, going back over a decade ago. The reason you don't know much about them is that they haven't been much active in the earbud world since their previous flagship SW-Dragon 2 released back in 2012.


Thanks that’s great info, yes I had no idea about them! I did see your ‘amazing’ comment so I can only assume they are TOTL level


----------



## Saoshyant

I completely forgot how much I enjoy the Edimun V3 Rhodium.  It kind of faded into obscurity with some other really solid earbuds, but wow I love the look of it's cable.


----------



## kurtextrem

I just went for TO400s too, thanks to @seanc6441 
But for the price it's almost a steal... I got it for half of the regular price


----------



## Saoshyant

Well I'm not buying a thing from this sale.  Just bought @zeta555 's Poseiden.


----------



## seanc6441

Saoshyant said:


> Well I'm not buying a thing from this sale.  Just bought @zeta555 's Poseiden.


Well you definitely need to share impressions of that once you hear it 

I’m hoping the black ling is something even close to that level.

By the way @ClieOS forgive me if you mentioned this before but which cable option did you get for your Black Ling? I choose the Gold (OFC silver/Gold plated) option but I saw the pure silver was available at a higher price.


----------



## Saoshyant

I just have to remember to buy a couple adapters as it's 4.4mm


----------



## seanc6441

kurtextrem said:


> I just went for TO400s too, thanks to @seanc6441
> But for the price it's almost a steal... I got it for half of the regular price


I admit half my decision to buy it was for the killer finish to it. It looks like a serious earbud 

But I also really want to see what Toneking can offer these days, and 400ohm earbuds are interesting to me now that I can drive it!


----------



## Narayan23

ClieOS said:


> The word "Graphene" is way overused, both by sellers as well as (and especially is) in this thread. Not all graphene earbuds are made by the same maker, nor have the exact same sound. It is really confusing when different people talking about different earbuds but all referring to them as "graphene" without telling us which brand or model they are.



I think most of us know what buds are being referred to when we read "graphene" in this thread, I agree "old" and "new" should be referenced to establish a distinction but never have I been confused when our Bud Brothers & Sisters speak about them. Most of us have purchased the NICEHCK DIY MX 760 Graphene old or new version, the other store that sells them can´t be mentioned here so I don´t see the problem in shortening the name to "graphene" for convenience´s sake when we talk about them.


----------



## ClieOS

Narayan23 said:


> I think most of us know what buds are being referred to when we read "graphene" in this thread, I agree "old" and "new" should be referenced to establish a distinction but never have I been confused when our Bud Brothers & Sisters speak about them. Most of us have purchased the NICEHCK DIY MX 760 Graphene old or new version, the other store that sells them can´t be mentioned here so I don´t see the problem in shortening the name to "graphene" for convenience´s sake when we talk about them.



You assumed too much. Forum posts are for all to read (*including people outside of HF) and an important source of knowledge. The overuse of shorthand and assumption defeats the purpose of sharing experience and knowledge because it is hard for any newcomer, especially those who are not familiar with the earbuds world, to learn without flipping through hundreds of post. Just so you know that **** PT15 also uses graphene diaphragm, so are K's White Ling, BGVP DX3, Toneking TO400s, and these are just the one I can recall.


----------



## ClieOS (Mar 28, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Well you definitely need to share impressions of that once you hear it
> 
> I’m hoping the black ling is something even close to that level.
> 
> By the way @ClieOS forgive me if you mentioned this before but which cable option did you get for your Black Ling? I choose the Gold (OFC silver/Gold plated) option but I saw the pure silver was available at a higher price.



Third from left and should be an easy guess.


----------



## ClieOS (Mar 28, 2018)

Here is my impression on Dragon 2+.(= SWD2+)

As far as overall sound signature goes, SWD2+ is just about neutral and leaning a bit toward the bright side. Bass is borderline average in quantity, and probably the only weak spot of the whole sound and definitely not a good choice for anyone who demands good bass in their music. mid-range is neither sweet nor distanced, far enough to give a sense of space but not so much that it takes away the texture. Treble is crisp and well extended, has good detail and fairly bright, but not so much that it becomes hash. The strength of SWD+, however, lies in its soundstage - it is not the widest I have ever heard (Rose Mojito still holds that title), but it is definitely the deepest. Most earbuds can render width just fine but not so much in depth, and thus soundstage tends to be more oval in the X-axis. Before SWD2+, the only other earbud that can render depth as good as width is the Blox TM7, which gives TM7's presentation a very 3D and life-like quality. SDW2+, in comparison, can also render this kind of 3D-rounded-sphere-like soundstage, but in even bigger size. That allows for a very immersive experience that no other earbuds (with the exception of TM7) can give, almost like you are in the middle of the stage performing rather than just a front seat listener. For that, it deserves a spot among the other flagship level ToTL earbuds.

On a side note, SWD2+ sounds fairly similar in either single-ended or balanced configuration. While bass does get tighten up slightly, it really doesn't change the overall tonal balance. But it seems SWD2+ only comes in balanced 2.5mm plug with 3.5mm adapter, so you should be covered whether you want to use it on a balanced source or not.


----------



## zato23

@HungryPanda 
If i remember well one of your favorite mmcx earbuds was Ourart Ti7
can you compare it with TONEKING TO400s please?


----------



## Narayan23

ClieOS said:


> You assumed too much. Forum posts are for all to read (*including people outside of HF) and an important source of knowledge. The overuse of shorthand and assumption defeats the purpose of sharing experience and knowledge because it is hard for any newcomer, especially those who are not familiar with the earbuds world, to learn without flipping through hundreds of post. Just so you know that **** PT15 also uses graphene diaphragm, so are K's White Ling, BGVP DX3, Toneking TO400s, and these are just the one I can recall.



Assumed too much? Really? I think everyone in this thread knows what´s being talked about when we say "graphenes", if they don´t ,a simple thread search (like I have conducted more than once when I failed to understand the nomenclature) will serve up results to help anyone comprehend without flipping through hundreds of posts, the latter being a great way to learn together with asking questions by the way. The name has stuck and I´m sorry it bothers you.


----------



## Saoshyant

The regulars to the thread know what graphenes mean, yes, but anyone getting into the hobby as well as casual head-fi readers of which there are a silly amount might end up being confused.  It would be like going around calling a particular headphone planars.  While in context it might make sense, to everyone else it could be misleading or just outright confusing.  Going to have to agree with ClieOS on this one.  Half the time I don't know if someone's talking about new or old.


----------



## chaiyuta

@Saoshyant : May I see the photo of Poseidon 4.4 mm. plug?


----------



## T light

seanc6441 said:


> Well I just pulled the trigger on the K’s Black Ling (Gold Cable) and the Toneking TO400. Excited as I haven’t received any earbuds in a few months
> 
> I sent a note in my purchase of the black ling to seller asking if he would give me a 2.5mm balanced plug but if not it’s ok just thinking ahead for a balanced dap
> 
> What deals have people gone for so far? I’m curious as to what everyone will choose to buy



Did you order from A K Audio for the Black Ling?


----------



## seanc6441

T light said:


> Did you order from A K Audio for the Black Ling?


Yep and btw it’s 3.5mm SE only


----------



## H.L.

jrazmar said:


> I thought I am getting closer to a decision... Thanks @zeta555 for your honest opinion. I found a few japanese reviews of the Liebesleid and they are all favorable and such high praises. Some rated it higher than the BK and the Mojito on overall transparency and resolution. I understand about the bass and how it is constructed to be not on-the-move friendly except when using the silicon pad before the foam. But which of the 2 sounds closer to the DIY Graphene ($29)? That's currently my sound preference. Just finally got the fund to get to the TOTL level. If funds are limited, I may have settled immediately with the original BK.
> 
> So far, reading more and more of these differing opinions makes me more confused than helped.




Liebesleid received several bad evaluations at 5ch BBS in Japan.
Liebesleid is very heavy and has a poor fit, so I can not feel the proper sound.
I immediately sold Liebesleid.


----------



## chaiyuta (Mar 28, 2018)

@H.L. : I've just noticed that you live in Japan. I see 4-5 2nd hand resale Liebesleid at fujiva site. I ever think to get one 2nd hand from Japan. Thanks for your warning. In Japanese market, I see Audio Technica CM707, UCOTECH ES1103, UCOTECH ES1003, Gramo One, quite old fashion wooden housing from radius, etc. Apart from Chi-Fi earbuds, what do you like most?


----------



## T light (Mar 28, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Yep and btw it’s 3.5mm SE only



Thanks, and good to know.   Went ahead and ordered it.  Would have preferred 2.5 balanced but not a deal breaker at this point.

Example is I feel the BK has a wider soundstage balanced....not sure it is true, but feels that way to me.


----------



## seanc6441

T light said:


> Thanks, and good to know.   Went ahead and ordered it.  Would have preferred 2.5 balanced but not a deal breaker at this point.
> 
> Example is I feel the BK has a wider soundstage balanced....not sure it is true, but feels that way to me.


That’s what clieos seemed to suggest, more space for separation.

The K’s earbuds already have a larger soundstage so I’ve heard so it may not be an issue.


----------



## KingOfThorns (Mar 28, 2018)

Seahf AWK-F150C vs. TY Hi-Z 150 vs. HE150?

Any other suggestion for earbuds up to $15-20? I'm used to in-ears, haven't had a decent earbuds before, I'm tempted to try some. I listen to broad selection of music (lots of metal/rock, tho). From what I've heard, earbuds are bass-light compared to in-ear so a pair that's able to bridge that gap is welcomed...


----------



## H.L.

chaiyuta said:


> @H.L. : I've just noticed that you live in Japan. I see 4-5 2nd hand resale Liebesleid at fujiva site. I ever think to get one 2nd hand from Japan. Thanks for your warning. In Japanese market, I see Audio Technica CM707, UCOTECH ES1103, UCOTECH ES1003, Gramo One, quite old fashion wooden housing from radius, etc. Apart from Chi-Fi earbuds, what do you like most?



My favorite earphone is EBX (Equipped with Donut foam) .
EBX has the best reputation in 5ch BBS.
I do not possess Shozy BK, but others say that EBX is preferred to BK.


In my country
Gramo One ... few holders
UCOTECH ... reputation is not good
Audio Technica CM707 ... The performance of Chinese products is better than this

Popularity
Middle ~ High price range ... NiceHCK EBX, Shozy BK
Low price range ... T-Music Version 2, **** EMX500, Yincrow X6, DP100

Unpopular
K's Earphone Ling, Samsara, DIY Graphene, SVARA


----------



## HungryPanda

zato23 said:


> @HungryPanda
> If i remember well one of your favorite mmcx earbuds was Ourart Ti7
> can you compare it with TONEKING TO400s please?


 Ourart Ti7 is still one of my favourite buds, easier to drive than the Toneking TO400s. It is a very pleasant sounding earbud. I have just listened to a few tracks with each and on the acoustic ones the Toneking TO400s gave a much clearer sound with acoustic guitars, voices both male and female were a little more forward making my listening a bit more exciting. Pianos on the Ourart Ti7 are perfect though. I would be happy with either earbud but comfort goes to the Toneking TO400s


----------



## zato23

HungryPanda said:


> Ourart Ti7 is still one of my favourite buds, easier to drive than the Toneking TO400s. It is a very pleasant sounding earbud. I have just listened to a few tracks with each and on the acoustic ones the Toneking TO400s gave a much clearer sound with acoustic guitars, voices both male and female were a little more forward making my listening a bit more exciting. Pianos on the Ourart Ti7 are perfect though. I would be happy with either earbud but comfort goes to the Toneking TO400s



Thank you very much ,i will go for TO400s as the price with discount and coupons is very tempting


----------



## acap13

chaiyuta said:


> I am the one who dislike nicehck graphene so much.(though I less talk about it) After I listened it around less than 3 hours, I decided to resale it and lucky that I could resale it successful, so you might need to rely on other people who share similar sound preference. Speaking of graphene, It recalls me about one Head-Fier here who was ever friendly shared his knowledge and opinions said that how much he dislike nicehck graphene earbuds and in that time, some guys here not only disagreed but also confronted & made sarcastic comments on him until he upset and leave this thread. What's a tragedy story.



Who are those guys though? Now let me see if I have time to lampoon their a**es off for you ! lol


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 28, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> Ourart Ti7 is still one of my favourite buds, easier to drive than the Toneking TO400s. It is a very pleasant sounding earbud. I have just listened to a few tracks with each and on the acoustic ones the Toneking TO400s gave a much clearer sound with acoustic guitars, voices both male and female were a little more forward making my listening a bit more exciting. Pianos on the Ourart Ti7 are perfect though. I would be happy with either earbud but comfort goes to the Toneking TO400s


Hi panda I have a fellow asking me if the TO400s can be driven well from a fiio E10 amp. Now I assume you don’t pocess this amp but I’m thinking surely it can be no less powerful than your portable DAP’s like shanling M1. Are these hard to drive without a powerful amp?

He’s a little paranoid about not being able to use them without spending more money on an amp  I hope that’s not the case.

Thanks!


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 28, 2018)

Yes! I like it @ClieOS



- Heigi Full foams with 3-hole cut out.


I guessed the same hollow sound you mentioned with the Ling can apply to the BS1 without the right fit (they always shift out of position due to cable weight etc). This helps, adds some grunt to the low mids, the soundstage isn’t large anymore but it’s a sacrifice i’m willing to make for a better overall tonality and more musical sound. Texture is there and it’s more akin to the bk now without that artificial brightness in the upper frequencies.

I’ve tried it on another earbud before and it didn’t suit... but it works a charm here. Thanks man!


----------



## HungryPanda

Well Sean my Lotoo Paw 500 drives them fine at just a few notches more than usual, will try with a few more daps later


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> Well Sean my Lotoo Paw 500 drives them fine at just a few notches more than usual, will try with a few more daps later


And looking at the info for that dap it seems to be suitable to portable gear, the fiio e10 seems to output more power than this dap. He should be just fine then. Thanks mate!


----------



## endia (Mar 28, 2018)

anyone knows which ling is this? trying to identify but can't, it's shell looks like "white" but the cable doesn't since not braided..

Newest K's Earphone Ling Brass Cavirt Metal Earbud HIFI Fever DJ Bass Earphone 14.5mm Dynamic Driver Earbuds With Mic
http://s.aliexpress.com/nMfiEzQZ?fromSns=


----------



## seanc6441

endia said:


> anyone knows which ling is this? trying to identify but can't, it's shell looks like "white" but the cable doesn't since not braided..


No picture or link, gonna be a tough call


----------



## endia

seanc6441 said:


> No picture or link, gonna be a tough call



ooops, silly me 
link added..
http://s.aliexpress.com/nMfiEzQZ?fromSns=


----------



## seanc6441

endia said:


> ooops, silly me
> link added..
> http://s.aliexpress.com/nMfiEzQZ?fromSns=


That’s the white ling. Which I only know because of the cable type in the picture. The black ling has a braided cable shown.


----------



## rendyG

Guys, whats the difference between these two versions of Graphene bud please?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...e-Earth-Graphene-Custom-Unit/32839988234.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...High-End-Rare-Earth-Graphene/32821104494.html
thx


----------



## endia

seanc6441 said:


> That’s the white ling. Which I only know because of the cable type in the picture. The black ling has a braided cable shown.


ah, thanks Sean, I was thinking it's braided too..


----------



## snip3r77

I bought the pt15 hope it's good . I have graphene and Vido


----------



## seanc6441

Posting this here so I can link it to someone


----------



## silverfishla

seanc6441 said:


> Posting this here so I can link it to someone


You've got mad foam cutting skills!


----------



## seanc6441

silverfishla said:


> You've got mad foam cutting skills!


Edward scissors hands has got nothing on me hehe

Believe me it wasn’t easy... lol. They need to sell foams pre cut like this!


----------



## chaiyuta

@H.L. : Thanks for your info. Could you advise me website links of 5ch BBS, earbuds forum, community or influencer twitter for local Japanese people? 
@acap13 : Before this off-topic will go far away, shall we talk this topic via PM, Private Messages, instead?


----------



## euge

seanc6441 said:


> Well I just pulled the trigger on the K’s Black Ling (Gold Cable) and the Toneking TO400. Excited as I haven’t received any earbuds in a few months
> 
> I sent a note in my purchase of the black ling to seller asking if he would give me a 2.5mm balanced plug but if not it’s ok just thinking ahead for a balanced dap
> 
> What deals have people gone for so far? I’m curious as to what everyone will choose to buy


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 29, 2018)

euge said:


>


They look like art not earbuds... And you cannot put a price on good art.

That’s how I reason with my conscience after this purchase haha

but really the ling earbuds are so slick and shiny ^^


----------



## 424358 (Mar 29, 2018)

Hey I’m mainly an IEM guy but I want to get into earbuds.

I just ordered some monk+ and monk lite. But I’m wondering what is the recommendations for earbuds at the $25 price point? And at $50?

My source is my laptop, iPhone 6, and iPad Air.

Mostly listen to EDM.

I like the **** model that has detachable cables. Is that a good buy?


----------



## H.L. (Mar 29, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> @H.L. : Thanks for your info. Could you advise me website links of 5ch BBS, earbuds forum, community or influencer twitter for local Japanese people?
> @acap13 : Before this off-topic will go far away, shall we talk this topic via PM, Private Messages, instead?



Unfortunately Earbuds is not popular in my country.
The number of communities is small.

5ch BBS
https://mevius.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/av/1517108622/

When 5ch BBS has 1000 posts, the thread ends and the next thread is created.
There are people with bad personality, not peace.


----------



## chaiyuta

@H.L. : No worries, I just want to 鍛える my language skill. By the way, Do you know the exact meaning of 「ドンシャリ」 and 「メリハリ」? I often see these words in earphone reviews.


----------



## chellity

misterchao said:


> Hey I’m mainly an IEM guy but I want to get into earbuds.
> 
> I just ordered some monk+ and monk lite. But I’m wondering what is the recommendations for earbuds at the $25 price point? And at $50?
> 
> ...



There are good options for cheap around $10, like emxs-500 or faael snow lotus 2.0 on aliexpress

$25 area is really up for debate, but for just under $50 shipped willsound mk2 has to be one of the best options.  Plenty of people love them on earbuds anonymous on facebook...dont think many have them here, but they just blow all my expectations away.    The new mk1 might be good if you want a warmer sound too...I just ordered that one days ago. 

http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone/willsound-mk2-new-batch.html


----------



## H.L. (Mar 29, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> @H.L. : No worries, I just want to 鍛える my language skill. By the way, Do you know the exact meaning of 「ドンシャリ」 and 「メリハリ」? I often see these words in earphone reviews.



>>「ドンシャリ」 and 「メリハリ」
It is the term of the music industry. These words mean that both treble and bass are strong.The midrange is weak.
ドン = Onomatopoeia of bass
シャリ = Onomatopoeia of treble

Onomatopoeia of dog's bark
English「bow wow」
Japanese「ワンワン」


----------



## noknok23 (Mar 29, 2018)

H.L. said:


> >>「ドンシャリ」 and 「メリハリ」
> It is the term of the music industry. These words mean that both treble and bass are strong.The midrange is weak.
> ドン = Onomatopoeia of bass
> シャリ = Onomatopoeia of treble
> ...


Thanks, I've been looking for Japanese earbuds thread for a long time.


----------



## H.L.

noknok23 said:


> Thanks, I've been looking for Japanese earbuds thread for a long time.



You are welcome!


----------



## Yobster69

rendyG said:


> Guys, whats the difference between these two versions of Graphene bud please?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...e-Earth-Graphene-Custom-Unit/32839988234.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...High-End-Rare-Earth-Graphene/32821104494.html
> thx


Hiya, the top link (cheaper version) is the one that nobody here appears to like very much. I do not have these so cannot comment personally. 
The second link and more expensive ones are the 1st version, and are at about half price is the sale. Now I do have these and whilst members here have split opinions on this one, I personally do own them and like them very much (I have the clear shell with copper wire). I would recommend them at this price, but as others have shared their dislike for the sound I would not like to take responsibility if you end up hating them, so take my opinion as mine alone. 
I hope this helps?


----------



## zeta555

Saoshyant said:


> Well I'm not buying a thing from this sale.  Just bought @zeta555 's Poseiden.



thanks man, hope you like it!



ClieOS said:


> Here is my impression on Dragon 2+.(= SWD2+)
> 
> As far as overall sound signature goes, SWD2+ is just about neutral and leaning a bit toward the bright side. Bass is borderline average in quantity, and probably the only weak spot of the whole sound and definitely not a good choice for anyone who demands good bass in their music. mid-range is neither sweet nor distanced, far enough to give a sense of space but not so much that it takes away the texture. Treble is crisp and well extended, has good detail and fairly bright, but not so much that it becomes hash. The strength of SWD+, however, lies in its soundstage - it is not the widest I have ever heard (Rose Mojito still holds that title), but it is definitely the deepest. Most earbuds can render width just fine but not so much in depth, and thus soundstage tends to be more oval in the X-axis. Before SWD2+, the only other earbud that can render depth as good as width is the Blox TM7, which gives TM7's presentation a very 3D and life-like quality. SDW2+, in comparison, can also render this kind of 3D-rounded-sphere-like soundstage, but in even bigger size. That allows for a very immersive experience that no other earbuds (with the exception of TM7) can give, almost like you are in the middle of the stage performing rather than just a front seat listener. For that, it deserves a spot among the other flagship level ToTL earbuds.
> 
> On a side note, SWD2+ sounds fairly similar in either single-ended or balanced configuration. While bass does get tighten up slightly, it really doesn't change the overall tonal balance. But it seems SWD2+ only comes in balanced 2.5mm plug with 3.5mm adapter, so you should be covered whether you want to use it on a balanced source or not.


well, that's definitely not my cup of tea.

as that i don't have any more earbuds in my possession. i'm signing of from this thread. maybe i'll be back if there's something interesting. lol


----------



## acap13

chaiyuta said:


> [USER=416138]@acap13 : Before this off-topic will go far away, shall we talk this topic via PM, Private Messages, instead?[/USER]




Sure, please !


----------



## HungryPanda

Yep you must have got the last one


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 29, 2018)

@HungryPanda Any chance you can give me a quick comparison of the Masya sub bass vs the TO400s sub bass? Does the Toneking extend low like the Masya?

Is the texture and control good? I like the Masya’s quality in the bass.


----------



## HungryPanda

The Masya is an incredibly good earbud, the Toneking TO400s goes just as deep but has more "punch" the Masya has a more airy top end. It's a bit like comparing a planar magnetic to a stax electrostat headphone really


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> The Masya is an incredibly good earbud, the Toneking TO400s goes just as deep but has more "punch" the Masya has a more airy top end. It's a bit like comparing a planar magnetic to a stax electrostat headphone really


Perfect response thanks


----------



## seanc6441

I was comparing my Masya to my HD540ii last night and it was astonishing how similar the sound signatures are. The 540 having the edge on details and treble extension but the bass response was very similar.

It’s just funny how I could dislike it with one foam and now I change it and my opinion changes completely.


----------



## waynes world

ClieOS said:


> Another choice will be VX Pro, also from MoonDrop. It has an even more neutral sound than liebesleid, but not as grand or refined a presentation. However, it is still an excellent choice for classical music IMO.



I really enjoy the $29 2017 New NICEHCK DIY Graphene Earbud, and the VX Pro's are at around the right price for me. I listen mainly to progressive rock, rock, trance, and I am hoping that the VX's would satisfy. If you or anyone else has any further opinions (or other options around the same price), then I'm all ears. Thanks.


----------



## waynes world

Yobster69 said:


> Hiya, the top link (cheaper version) is the one that nobody here appears to like very much. I do not have these so cannot comment personally.
> The second link and more expensive ones are the 1st version, and are at about half price is the sale. Now I do have these and whilst members here have split opinions on this one, I personally do own them and like them very much (I have the clear shell with copper wire). I would recommend them at this price, but as others have shared their dislike for the sound I would not like to take responsibility if you end up hating them, so take my opinion as mine alone.
> I hope this helps?



The split opinions seem bizarre to me - almost like people are listening to different earbuds. Anyway, if mine broke I would instantly buy another pair since I like mine so much.


----------



## Rendster

I didn't like the sound of the Graphene at all. For me it has good clarity but lacking in punch and some details. Not sure why but both emxs-500 and the ry4s are richer in sound. Perhaps there's something wrong with my graphene e?


----------



## waynes world

Rendster said:


> I didn't like the sound of the Graphene at all. For me it has good clarity but lacking in punch and some details. Not sure why but both emxs-500 and the ry4s are richer in sound. Perhaps there's something wrong with my graphene e?



Maybe. Fit might be part of it as well. I find that I need to angle the stems forward to get a good seal and hence the bass. And the foams used might have an effect (although I only use donuts with them).


----------



## Yobster69

waynes world said:


> The split opinions seem bizarre to me - almost like people are listening to different earbuds. Anyway, if mine broke I would instantly buy another pair since I like mine so much.


Absolutely, I’d buy another set in a shot. I loved them straight out of the box, but as time went on the mids lost none of their forward ness but become smoother and more satisfying. And the bass opened up with better texture and I was able to push it further and deeper with no distortion. Nice timbre and nothing wonky going on at all. I can’t quite fathom why the massively differing opinions, it must be different suppliers? Different drivers??


----------



## ClieOS

waynes world said:


> I really enjoy the $29 2017 New NICEHCK DIY Graphene Earbud, and the VX Pro's are at around the right price for me. I listen mainly to progressive rock, rock, trance, and I am hoping that the VX's would satisfy. If you or anyone else has any further opinions (or other options around the same price), then I'm all ears. Thanks.



I have nothing to add.


----------



## mochill

ClieOS said:


> I have nothing to add.


How are the dragons 2 plus coming along


----------



## ClieOS

mochill said:


> How are the dragons 2 plus coming along



Just fine. In fact... 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1966#post-14134260


----------



## AmericanEDC

Yobster69 said:


> Absolutely, I’d buy another set in a shot. I loved them straight out of the box, but as time went on the mids lost none of their forward ness but become smoother and more satisfying. And the bass opened up with better texture and I was able to push it further and deeper with no distortion. Nice timbre and nothing wonky going on at all. I can’t quite fathom why the massively differing opinions, it must be different suppliers? Different drivers??



I tried to follow the thread and lost it. Which set are you referring to in this comment that you "loved..straight out of the box". I have a cart at AliExpress I'm trying to finalize before the sale ends on me! Thank you.

Best,


----------



## ChasingDopamine

Just discovered this thread, was exactly what i was looking for and am looking forward to going through it.

I've always been envious of the form factor and freedom on the move offered by in ears, but unfortunately due to susceptibility to ear infections i cant use anything which penetrates the ear.  I've so far been restricted to full size headphones and have sought to find a good pair of non penetrative earbuds with decent sound quality. Does anyone have any suggestion as to what the best earbuds in terms of SQ may be?


----------



## Yobster69

AmericanEDC said:


> I tried to follow the thread and lost it. Which set are you referring to in this comment that you "loved..straight out of the box". I have a cart at AliExpress I'm trying to finalize before the sale ends on me! Thank you.
> 
> Best,


Yeah, it’s all become rather confusing hasn’t it lol. 
This one, it’s the link from my actual purchase, just to be sure -
http://s.aliexpress.com/A3aaIRjE


----------



## AmericanEDC

Yobster69 said:


> Yeah, it’s all become rather confusing hasn’t it lol.
> This one, it’s the link from my actual purchase, just to be sure -
> http://s.aliexpress.com/A3aaIRjE


Those are just way too inexpensive to me to even consider. Kidding. They're in my cart to seriously consider. Thank you.
I'm listening to Seahf AWK-F150C High Impedance right now, amp'd with my Creative e5. Very nice (lots of sub bass) but must be properly powered. On my iphone X they're horrible.


----------



## Yobster69 (Mar 29, 2018)

AmericanEDC said:


> Those are just way too inexpensive to me to even consider. Kidding. They're in my cart to seriously consider. Thank you.
> I'm listening to Seahf AWK-F150C High Impedance right now, amp'd with my Creative e5. Very nice (lots of sub bass) but must be properly powered. On my iphone X they're horrible.


Well I have the F150C’s, and whilst they are a decent bud I find the mids a little distant and unangaging compared to the graphenes, and once they were burnt in the graphenes have even better bass (all IMO of course). NICEHCK are a good seller and I am sure you have a better chance of getting a decent set like myself and Waynes World than most of the other sellers. 
Good luck and happy listening


----------



## seanc6441

ChasingDopamine said:


> Just discovered this thread, was exactly what i was looking for and am looking forward to going through it.
> 
> I've always been envious of the form factor and freedom on the move offered by in ears, but unfortunately due to susceptibility to ear infections i cant use anything which penetrates the ear.  I've so far been restricted to full size headphones and have sought to find a good pair of non penetrative earbuds with decent sound quality. Does anyone have any suggestion as to what the best earbuds in terms of SQ may be?


Price? they go from $3 to $700


----------



## ChasingDopamine

seanc6441 said:


> Price? they go from $3 to $700



maybe up to 500$?


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 29, 2018)

ChasingDopamine said:


> maybe up to 500$?


Most TOTL (Top of the line) earbuds sit around $200-400. What sound signature are you looking for and what music genre do you listen you.


----------



## Airutra

Hi, does anyone have any suggestions for earbuds that would be similar to the Rose Mojitos (preferably under $200)? I really like them but the fit is sort of awkward on one side. Just started looking into earbuds after ignoring them for years due to Apple earbuds...


----------



## ChasingDopamine

seanc6441 said:


> Most TOTL (Top of the line) earbuds sit around $200-400. What sound signal are you looking for and what music genre do you listen you.




Listen to a most genres, most often vocal acoustic or pop music, EDM, rap, or classical. Pretty sensitive to treble so anything too bright is a no go for me. I plan on driving it from a chord mojo or straight out of a samsung note 8 on the move.


----------



## seanc6441

Airutra said:


> Hi, does anyone have any suggestions for earbuds that would be similar to the Rose Mojitos (preferably under $200)? I really like them but the fit is sort of awkward on one side. Just started looking into earbuds after ignoring them for years due to Apple earbuds...


Rose Mojito are one of the best earbuds out there for detail and soundstage, you won’t find anything under 200 that’s better than that.

What’s the awkward you are feeling? Too big? Too small and fall out? Is it painful in the ear? Or are you 100% set on a new earbud?


----------



## cathee

ChasingDopamine said:


> Listen to a most genres, most often vocal acoustic or pop music, EDM, rap, or classical. Pretty sensitive to treble so anything too bright is a no go for me. I plan on driving it from a chord mojo or straight out of a samsung note 8 on the move.



Regardless of price, EMXs500 is probably my favorite earbuds right now... Well until I get my goodies from Cypherus.


----------



## Airutra

seanc6441 said:


> Rose Mojito are one of the best earbuds out there for detail and soundstage, you won’t find anything under 200 that’s better than that.
> 
> What’s the awkward you are feeling? Too big? Too small and fall out? Is it painful in the ear? Or are you 100% set on a new earbud?



I wasn't really expecting something better at that price point. It's a bit big which causes some pain in one of my ears after a while. So I'd be mainly looking for something I could listen to for a long period of time comfortably, while occasionally listening to the Mojitos.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 29, 2018)

ChasingDopamine said:


> Listen to a most genres, most often vocal acoustic or pop music, EDM, rap, or classical. Pretty sensitive to treble so anything too bright is a no go for me. I plan on driving it from a chord mojo or straight out of a samsung note 8 on the move.


I just bought a K’s black ling (€175/$225) on aliexpress during the sale down from like $300. It’s a high end earbud with focus on bass quality, musical sounding with a big soundstage.

Here’s impressions from a member (ClieOS) here of white ling, black ling and poseidon (which is sold out of normal version at $500, so maybe look at the two lings)

“I got my hands on a couple of K's earbuds over the last few years and they tend to share a similar house sound. Simply put, they more or less all have 'deep bass, sweet mid, smooth high and open soundstage'. All and all they are warm sounding earbuds that are good for mainstream vocal music, focusing on musicality rather than accuracy/details. When it comes to mainstream music, they can sound excellent, especially on conveying emotion, as long as the listener isn't looking for an analytical sound. This also means they are not the best choice for instruments or classical music. When it comes to White and Black Bell or Poseidon, the above still applies. Here is, however, what they are different in - White Bell is by far the most sensitive to how you wear it. While White and Black Bell share the same housing design, White's particular tuning tends to sound a bit hallow and distance if you get a loose fit. The shiny and smooth plated surface and the small housing really doesn't help to get a really good seal, even though it is quite comfortable. I do strongly recommend using foam, particularly donut or multi-holes variant, in order to get the rather full sounding White.to reveal itself. When you get it right, White will have the most upfront mid and the smallest soundstage (though not actually small) of all three of the newer K's, making it the most vocal-centric of the bunch and great for pop and rock. Black, on the other hand, doesn't care as much about fitting as White (though I still recommend donut or multi-holes foam) since its tuning doesn't highlight any particular frequency like the White, and tends to sound more consistent across the whole range with a wider soundstage and thus making it more versatile when it comes to different music genre. While Black's mid might not be as sweet as White, the overall balance is better. The biggest difference I have felt between the two is that White is more energetic where Black is more mature sounding. Poseidon, in comparison, is really more of a mid-point between the two, striking a really good balance while having the best soundstage and musicality of the three. In a way, Poseidon almost sounds like a full size can.

With this kind of high price tag, talking about price/performance ratio often becomes a moot point. You will definitely find better value in cheaper (though lesser sounding) options than these earbuds. Nonetheless, White and Black are still overall in and around the same high level of SQ as K's previous flagship, the 500ohm Samsara, making them still competitive over the other flagships / second tier. Poseidon, on the other hand, is truly among the best of the best out there. Whether it will suit a person is, however, more than just SQ, but also a preference in music and taste. For example, Liebesleid still excels in female vocal and detail where Poseidon holds more advantage over male vocal, etc.”


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 29, 2018)

Airutra said:


> I wasn't really expecting something better at that price point. It's a bit big which causes some pain in one of my ears after a while. So I'd be mainly looking for something I could listen to for a long period of time comfortably, while occasionally listening to the Mojitos.


Actually like I said above you can check out the Black/White ling, $225 and about $125 respectively during the ali sale.

If you want something even cheaper that’s looking to be great value then the Toneking TO400s (400 ohm) is at $65 from $110. It’s been described at a flat signature with deep punchy bass, clear full mids, and a nice energetic attack. May be a good one!

Or something very comfortable is the shozy bk, it’s suggested to get the 2.5mm balanced versiom which would come at just under $200. A very natural sounding linear signature. Slightly analog low end and low mids, a little warm and lush, high’s are neutral and airy.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> If you want something even cheaper that’s looking to be great value then the Toneking TO400s (400 ohm) is at $65 from $110. It’s been described at a flat signature with deep punchy bass, clear full mids, and a nice energetic attack. May be a good one!



Link please!


----------



## Airutra

seanc6441 said:


> Actually like I said above you can check out the Black/White ling, $225 and about $125 respectively during the ali sale.
> 
> If you want something even cheaper that’s looking to be great value then the Toneking TO400s (400 ohm) is at $65 from $110. It’s been described at a flat signature with deep punchy bass, clear full mids, and a nice energetic attack. May be a good one!
> 
> Or something very comfortable is the shozy bk, it’s suggested to get the 2.5mm balanced versiom which would come at just under $200. A very natural sounding linear signature. Slightly analog low end and low mids, a little warm and lush, high’s are neutral and airy.


I'll check out the Toneking TO400s, thanks! The others don't look like they have detachable cables.


----------



## seanc6441

Airutra said:


> I'll check out the Toneking TO400s, thanks! The others don't look like they have detachable cables.


Nope they don't! TO400s looks really nice a steal for the price, got one myself. Act quick before the sale ends


----------



## seanc6441

seanc6441 said:


> Link please!


https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32857291933.html

If you factor in seller coupons that $73 dropped to $65 for me.


----------



## noknok23

cathee said:


> Regardless of price, EMXs500 is probably my favorite earbuds right now... Well until I get my goodies from Cypherus.


What other earbuds do you have? The emx500S are tempting to me, it is highly regarded in the french forum but i already have more than enough TOTL earbuds, I don't know if it's worth it.


----------



## boblauer (Mar 29, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Nope they don't! TO400s looks really nice a steal for the price, got one myself. Act quick before the sale ends


At 400 ohms can that be driven out of the ops source? Did not say what he's using?


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> I really enjoy the $29 2017 New NICEHCK DIY Graphene Earbud, and the VX Pro's are at around the right price for me. I listen mainly to progressive rock, rock, trance, and I am hoping that the VX's would satisfy. If you or anyone else has any further opinions (or other options around the same price), then I'm all ears. Thanks.



I think you better off with the Graphene..it's more versatile than the vx pro (which is dry sounding and finicky to wear)


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32857291933.html
> 
> If you factor in seller coupons that $73 dropped to $65 for me.



Thanks! A helpful person just pointed me in the direction of the Svara L (for electronic, rock), so I am now looking into them as well (for $58). Something must be bought before this sale is over lol!


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> I think you better off with the Graphene..it's more versatile than the vx pro (which is dry sounding and finicky to wear)



Yes, for my preferred genres it appears they may not be what I am looking for. Thanks!


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Nope they don't! TO400s looks really nice a steal for the price, got one myself. Act quick before the sale ends



I didn't buy anything on this sale, because I already spend my budget on a DFR, Zen 2, and Asura 1 package deal.  Almost bought the TO400, but my friend already purchased it on a whim. I'll wait and take it from his hands if it turns out great and he's bored with it


----------



## HungryPanda (Mar 29, 2018)

Toneking TO400s, NiceHck EBX, Svara L, OurArt Ti7 all have detachable cables and I love them all


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Thanks! A helpful person just pointed me in the direction of the Svara L (for electronic, rock), so I am now looking into them as well (for $58). Something must be bought before this sale is over lol!



Now this i recommend. A bit smoothed out on the mids and treble, but that warm bass and enveloping soundstage is addictive. One of my favourite


----------



## HungryPanda

oops I forgot to mention the BGVP DX3 another good one and graphene to boot


----------



## MarkCavendish

maybe this is out of topic from earbud , but in wanna hear your guys opinion about it. i have a zishan z1 which have 100 ohm output impedance (correct me if im wrong with the specification) , what if im using low impedance cans lets say earbud which have 16 or 32 ohm with 106 dB/mW sensitivity , does it any effect to drive my earbud with high output impedance player like zishan z1? im worry it cause negative effect in long term like imbalance for my earbud or it may damaging my cans , thank you in advance.


----------



## praetor47

HungryPanda said:


> Toneking TO400s, NiceHck EBX, Svara L



would you mind a quick comparison between the 3, and throw in the Wilsound Mk2 while you're at it. if you had to pick one that was the most versatile with most genres, which one would it be? deepest bass (not necessarily the most)? sweetest midrange? biggest soundstage? which one sounds closest to a full size can? would you say any of them sound "better" than some of your ~100$ iems, like the Kinera or Magaosi or Pioneers? going a bit further, do you think _any_ earbud that you have would favourably compare to something like the K712?

sorry for all the questions, still deciding if i want to enter the earbud game after i pretty much "finalized" my IEM lineup 

@ctaxxxx if you heard any of the above, how would you compare them to the iBasso IT01?


----------



## ChasingDopamine

Thank you for the advice so far everyone. I'm very pleased to know that decent earbuds are being produced as I was unable to find any good ones on Amazon or in brick and mortar shops. With the summer heat coming up will definitely get one. om Ali express my best bet? I live in the UK and some of the delivery times quoted are pretty long!


----------



## HungryPanda

Toneking TO400s is the new kid on the block, graphene drivers, energetic akin to the grado sound but with great bass, Svara L great for rock, metal, indie music. NiceHck EBX sounds great whatever you throw at it. These are all metal earbuds I wear Svara L and EBX over ear, the Toneking TO400s hanging down. The Willsound Mk2 is a current favourite of mine, light, comfortable with a warm signature and sounds like a full size headphone


----------



## HungryPanda

Edifier earbuds are available on amazon.co.uk, I have Edifier H185  and it is very pleasant sounding


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> Toneking TO400s is the new kid on the block, graphene drivers, energetic akin to the grado sound but with great bass, Svara L great for rock, metal, indie music. NiceHck EBX sounds great whatever you throw at it. These are all metal earbuds I wear Svara L and EBX over ear, the Toneking TO400s hanging down. The Willsound Mk2 is a current favourite of mine, light, comfortable with a warm signature and sounds like a full size headphone



You're killing me with all of these good recommendations lol! And the Willsound Mk2's are only $38 I see. Hmm!

I was also recommended the K's 300 Samsara. Somewhat out of my price range at $93 (50% discount), nevertheless I'm intrigued...


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> Thanks! A helpful person just pointed me in the direction of the Svara L (for electronic, rock), so I am now looking into them as well (for $58). Something must be bought before this sale is over lol!


I thought the svara was a bit dark and rolled off sounding in the treble if I’m not mistaken? You seem to love treble in your graphene’s and such. Although maybe I read into that wrong^^


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 29, 2018)

boblauer said:


> At 400 ohms can that be driven out of the ops source? Did not say what he's using?


Hmm I’m not sure, the sensitivity is 123db though, quite high. Hungry Panda was powering them with a dap (lotoo paw 5000) at 40-50% on the volume level.



ChasingDopamine said:


> Thank you for the advice so far everyone. I'm very pleased to know that decent earbuds are being produced as I was unable to find any good ones on Amazon or in brick and mortar shops. With the summer heat coming up will definitely get one. om Ali express my best bet? I live in the UK and some of the delivery times quoted are pretty long!



Aliexpress within the next day or two as the sale is currently on and these TOTL earbuds like the Ling series etc are greatly reduced in price (30-50% in some cases)

Long wait yes, but definitely worth it


----------



## HungryPanda

The Svara L is a deep dark powerhouse, I'm listening to Marillion's Afraid of Sunlight album with them right now and am being bashed around the ears


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> The Svara L is a deep dark powerhouse, I'm listening to Marillion's Afraid of Sunlight album with them right now and am being bashed around the ears



Sure, go ahead and throw in some Marillion to further entice me!


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> The Svara L is a deep dark powerhouse, I'm listening to Marillion's Afraid of Sunlight album with them right now and am being bashed around the ears



Btw do you have the older 100ohm version, or the newer 32ohm version?


----------



## HungryPanda

I have the newer 32 ohm one I think


----------



## groucho69

waynes world said:


> You're killing me with all of these good recommendations lol! And the Willsound Mk2's are only $38 I see. Hmm!
> 
> I was also recommended the K's 300 Samsara. Somewhat out of my price range at $93 (50% discount), nevertheless I'm intrigued...



And $12 shipping.


----------



## euge

seanc6441 said:


> They look like art not earbuds... And you cannot put a price on good art.
> 
> That’s how I reason with my conscience after this purchase haha
> 
> but really the ling earbuds are so slick and shiny ^^



Hahaha yeah the build is fantastic, so is the sound  Bought it 2 weeks before sale at full price and would gladly pay full price for another!

Hope you like them


----------



## ctaxxxx (Mar 29, 2018)

praetor47 said:


> sorry for all the questions, still deciding if i want to enter the earbud game after i pretty much "finalized" my IEM lineup
> 
> @ctaxxxx if you heard any of the above, how would you compare them to the iBasso IT01?



I don't sorry. Most of my experience are TOTL buds around $200-$400.

If it helps, I would describe the iBasso IT01 a v-shaped signature, without any sharp treble peaks, or deep mid recession. Sub-bass is the most impressive. No mid-bass boat. I guess it's like a more balanced Vido? Female vocals are nice, male vocals not as much due to the slight lower mid recession, so it's no CampFred. It's not resolving enough for my tastes, but has me looking at the IT04 in terms of value. (...so much for sticking with cheap Chi-fi. I've made a commitment to stay under ~$500 for portable audio though!)

*Edit: *Oh, you have the IT01 and looking to get into earbuds. Yeah, nevermind then lol.


----------



## praetor47

ctaxxxx said:


> I don't sorry. Most of my experience are TOTL buds around $200-$400.
> 
> If it helps, I would describe the iBasso IT01 a v-shaped signature, without any sharp treble peaks, or deep mid recession. Sub-bass is the most impressive. No mid-bass boat. I guess it's like a more balanced Vido? Female vocals are nice, male vocals not as much due to the slight lower mid recession, so it's no CampFred. It's not resolving enough for my tastes, but has me looking at the IT04 in terms of value. (...so much for sticking with cheap Chi-fi. I've made a commitment to stay under ~$500 for portable audio though!)
> 
> *Edit: *Oh, you have the IT01 and looking to get into earbuds. Yeah, nevermind then lol.



haha, yeah. i was trying to get a feel for some earbuds compared to what's currently, imo, the best price/performance value in IEMs.. that i own 

while you're here... how would you compare the IT01 to some of the TOTL earbuds like the Campfred 2, Blur something 300s and Shozy BK? would you say the Campfred 2 and/or the Blur are comparable to some similarly priced fullsize cans like the HD6xx and AKG7xx series? thanks in advance 

to everyone: has anybody tried those weird Dunu Alpha 1 hybrids? how are the good ole Yuins holding up in today's market, particularly the PK1 and OK1? that form factor is by far the best (and sexiest!) for me, as far as earbuds go.

and speaking of form factor, how feasible would it be to "reshell" an earbud, i.e. "transplant" everything in another housing (f.e. get a campfred and a cheap pk1 diy from aliexpress, open up the former and put the driver and everything inside the housing of the latter)?


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 31, 2018)

praetor47 said:


> haha, yeah. i was trying to get a feel for some earbuds compared to what's currently, imo, the best price/performance value in IEMs.. that i own
> 
> while you're here... how would you compare the IT01 to some of the TOTL earbuds like the Campfred 2, Blur something 300s and Shozy BK? would you say the Campfred 2 and/or the Blur are comparable to some similarly priced fullsize cans like the HD6xx and AKG7xx series? thanks in advance
> 
> ...


Shozy BK uses the yuin pk shell. So that’s an option if you like that shell type (I really do).


----------



## cathee

noknok23 said:


> What other earbuds do you have? The emx500S are tempting to me, it is highly regarded in the french forum but i already have more than enough TOTL earbuds, I don't know if it's worth it.



*Get them!* At ~$15 or whatever the sale price on Ali is right now, I think they're a no brainer. 

The TOTL earbuds I prefer them to include: Rose Masya/Mojito (personal fit issues, sturdiness [my wood Masya is okay, but Mojito/reg Masya started to crack, unglue after <1yr] - although I'd say the EMXs and Masya have very similar ss), Penon BS1 (source dependent asf, bulky wires causes earbuds to pop out all the time on the go), og Yuin PK1 (genre specific, bit dated, wires 1ft too long for portable).  

I'm really excited for the Cypherus stuff to come in though, especially the RED which they work with you personally to find your "sweet spot" (but for the $$$ I'm expecting angels to sing so we'll see...)


----------



## noknok23 (Mar 29, 2018)

cathee said:


> *Get them!* At ~$15 or whatever the sale price on Ali is right now, I think they're a no brainer.
> 
> The TOTL earbuds I prefer them to include: Rose Masya/Mojito (personal fit issues, sturdiness [my wood Masya is okay, but Mojito/reg Masya started to crack, unglue after <1yr] - although I'd say the EMXs and Masya have very similar ss), Penon BS1 (source dependent asf, bulky wires causes earbuds to pop out all the time on the go), og Yuin PK1 (genre specific, bit dated, wires 1ft too long for portable).
> 
> I'm really excited for the Cypherus stuff to come in though, especially the RED which they work with you personally to find your "sweet spot" (but for the $$$ I'm expecting angels to sing so we'll see...)


Thanks
And did you find the emx500s to scale well? I see you are using the Chord mojo with it which must imply a "yes". I just want to hear from you exactly how great are the improvements


----------



## cathee

noknok23 said:


> Thanks
> And did you find the emx500s to scale well? I see you are using the Chord mojo which must imply yes but just want to hear from you exactly how you would describe how great are the improvements



Unfortunately not as well as some of the TOTL models. For example, if you want to scale them on a proper desktop amp, I'd go for the Penon BS1s. On the Mojo the BS1s (once you get the fit right) are *superb*. I don't like to use flowery language to describe the sound but let's just say more than once I tried to take off the headphones I thought I was wearing only to grad a hand full of air when I was listening to the BS1s through a proper source (Tidal MQA - Dragonfly is another great sublime combo).


----------



## Carrow

Got a pair of Rose Masya on the way for like €50


----------



## HungryPanda

Carrow said:


> Got a pair of Rose Masya on the way for like €50


 Great price


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> Great price


Yes fantastic price, enjoy! Try the 3 hole foam it works for me


----------



## Carrow

HungryPanda said:


> Great price



Right?? eBay bargain that was ALSO a second chance offer. Wood version to boot, absolute steal.


----------



## AmericanEDC

Toneking TO400s ordered
EMX500s (another 2 on the way)
Some others as well. PT15, etc. 

I love my new emx500s 
It’s not even a question at these prices to own it. I’ve coincidentally been wearing mine since 7am off and on all day.


----------



## seanc6441

AmericanEDC said:


> Toneking TO400s ordered
> EMX500s (another 2 on the way)
> Some others as well. PT15, etc.
> 
> ...


Which seller did you order from? I may pick one up since my original emx500 is dead.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 29, 2018)

Mojito owners can anyone tell me what the version with the red/blue lettering ‘Rose’ logo on a silver backplate is?

Is it a new variant or an older one. I know the very old ones had red/blue back plate but the one i’m familiar with has this design




but not the one with ‘Rose’ inscribed in red/blue like this



Is there a sound difference? I know the old and new had a difference in vocal presentation, but is this first one pictures and the red/blue lettering one the same? Thanks


----------



## audio123

My review on the HiFi Boy Dream! Enjoy Reading! 

https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/03/30/hifi-boy-dream/


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> Mojito owners can anyone tell me what the version with the red/blue lettering ‘Rose’ logo on a silver backplate is?
> 
> ....
> Is there a sound difference? I know the old and new had a difference in vocal presentation, but is this first one pictures and the red/blue lettering one the same? Thanks



They are the same version. There are only two versions of Mojito: (1) the original handbuilt limited edition with red/blue badge (the one I have, pic in the first post) and (2) the 3D printed mass production version. Your top picture shows the earlier mass production version with the old rectangular badge where the bottom picture shows a later mass production version with the rounded badge. The only difference between them is the badge.


----------



## waynes world (Mar 30, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> I have the newer 32 ohm one I think





chinmie said:


> Now this i recommend. A bit smoothed out on the mids and treble, but that warm bass and enveloping soundstage is addictive. One of my favourite



"Addictive" is good!

I'm looking at them here:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...or-Earbud-Earphone-With-MMCX/32810127070.html

Actually not looking... ordered! And shipped within 15 minutes 

They are coming with an "over ear" cable that probably won't work well for me. But, I'll be able to use the **** PT15 cable to wear them down, so no problemo. Kinda cool that I can get a balanced cable to use with the Radsone.

Anyway, I have a good feeling about these (as long as the bass or treble isn't toooo overwhelming).


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> "Addictive" is good!
> 
> I'm looking at them here:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...or-Earbud-Earphone-With-MMCX/32810127070.html
> ...



I like using them over ear, but regular down position works nice too.

I hope you'll  like it, it is one of the buds that i like very much, both the sound and looks


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> the svara L is special, if it has just a bit of sparkle on the top end, it would kill the samsara in my book. even now, though i rated the samsara higher because technical performance, the svara still wins for me overall, with it's hall like soundstage it's and big, warm bass



Btw, this helped seal the deal for me as well.


----------



## silverfishla

waynes world said:


> Btw, this helped seal the deal for me as well.


What’s the difference between the 2017 Svara L and the 2018 Svara L Pro?  There is one store on Ali that has the Pro version and it has a black grill vent while the regular one has silver?


----------



## jrazmar

Finally, pulled the trigger with the Moondrop Liebesleid. Hell yeah it's expensive. Hope it's worth the risk and price and no fit issues for me whatsoever. Thanks to all who shared their thoughts especially to ClieOS, chinmie, ctaxxx and sean.


----------



## waynes world

silverfishla said:


> What’s the difference between the 2017 Svara L and the 2018 Svara L Pro?  There is one store on Ali that has the Pro version and it has a black grill vent while the regular one has silver?



Dunno. I saw that asked before, but don't think I saw an answer.



jrazmar said:


> Finally, pulled the trigger with the Moondrop Liebesleid. Hell yeah it's expensive. Hope it's worth the risk and price and no fit issues for me whatsoever. Thanks to all who shared their thoughts especially to ClieOS, chinmie, ctaxxx and sean.



Congrats! Knowing that we are kindred spirits (relating to the $29 graphenes), I'll be looking forward to your impressions


----------



## ClieOS

silverfishla said:


> What’s the difference between the 2017 Svara L and the 2018 Svara L Pro?  There is one store on Ali that has the Pro version and it has a black grill vent while the regular one has silver?



The treble is more extended on the Pro, while bass is better tamped. However, the vocal range is also a little grainy. I'll advise using full foam for the best result, or you can try EQ down the 1~2kHz range by a few dB.


----------



## handwander

Current price on AliExpress for the **** Tanks was pretty tempting, so bought a pair. Don't usually order from Ali so hoping the shipping to Japan is quick-ish ~


----------



## jrazmar

waynes world said:


> Dunno. I saw that asked before, but don't think I saw an answer.
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats! Knowing that we are kindred spirits (relating to the $29 graphenes), I'll be looking forward to your impressions



Sure wayne. I'm trying to be optimistic on everything about it.


----------



## ChasingDopamine

Considering getting the black ling or the toneking400s, anyone got any expirence between these two?


----------



## rkw

ClieOS said:


> They are the same version. There are only two versions of Mojito: (1) the original handbuilt limited edition with red/blue badge (the one I have, pic in the first post) and (2) the 3D printed mass production version.


Besides the badge, there have been different versions of Mojito with the body made with transparent or opaque colored plastic. The blue version has been described as superior to the transparent:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1257#post-13339704
However, only the transparent body has been available for the past year (I've been checking). Vendors on AliExpress still list different color options but only have transparent in stock, for example: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ros...hile-Detachable-Cable-Earbud/32778507302.html


----------



## ChasingDopamine

Also does anyone have any recommendations around the 100-400$ mark which can be driven straight from a phone?


----------



## Majin

Carrow said:


> Got a pair of Rose Masya on the way for like €50



Did you use tons of coupons? or did you buy it used?


----------



## noknok23 (Mar 30, 2018)

ChasingDopamine said:


> Also does anyone have any recommendations around the 100-400$ mark which can be driven straight from a phone?


I like the hifiboy dream. Just found out yesterday that donut foam would give them a more energetic sound...if you have a decent phone like iPhone I think its one of the best sound you can have. The build is great too. I wrote a review and really liked it.

Did you check cypherus audio? A handcrafted one man business from Indonesia.
https://www.cypherusaudio.com/
I have Campfred 1 I think it's very nice. It's perhaps objectively not the best value, (I think it's 160usd+40usd) technically you'll find better earphones at lower price in Chinese market but the sound signature is really well made and very engaging. Making it worthwhile if you are looking for musicality. (My opinion). also Campfred 1 is easy to drive but I think all of his earbuds are. CF2 had really positive feedback in this thread.
To give an idea about "value" I think CF1 is on the same level than hifiboy dream. It's actually slightly lower in pure technicality but the sound is a bit more engaging and musical. dream is a  new unknown brand so they lowered their earphones price. Cypherus is well known and highly regarded so it's the opposite...

IF you have a budget phone, please consider some earbuds below 30usd. There is some excellent gems.


----------



## ClieOS

rkw said:


> Besides the badge, there have been different versions of Mojito with the body made with transparent or opaque colored plastic. The blue version has been described as superior to the transparent:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1257#post-13339704
> However, only the transparent body has been available for the past year (I've been checking). Vendors on AliExpress still list different color options but only have transparent in stock, for example: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ros...hile-Detachable-Cable-Earbud/32778507302.html



I have directly comfirmed with Rose Tech. that there are only two versions of Mojito ever being produced, as described in my previous post. 

One thing to note is that some of the last few pair of the original red/blue badge limited edition actually already started using the rectangle badge (mainly are made for Ali sellers) and so owners of these Mojito might have mistaken their version as the newer version, even though those are not.

As for the color of the body, they are not an indication of version as Rose had made different color options available at different time and sometime even took custom order.


----------



## damex (Mar 30, 2018)

ChasingDopamine said:


> Considering getting the black ling or the toneking400s, anyone got any expirence between these two?



for me black ling is has weird fit. toneking to400s have better fit thus 'better' sound (still subjective?).

toneking pretty clean/neutral (no fatigue or anything like that) if you compare with other earbuds here. can't really compare with black ling due to fit issues.

imho full hiegi foams gets the most pleasant experience from to400s.

imho better pay price difference between black ling and to400s to your favorite cable maker (@PETEREK here).


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 30, 2018)

@chaiyuta That’s a little unfair. I’m enthusiastic about helping people who are you to judge me for that. What does ‘act pro wanna be’ even mean? Pro at what? Trying to help people or be active in the forum? No I’ve never called myself an expert or pro when I give my opinion and I never tell people theirs is worth less than mine but obviously you have that illusion about me.

I tried to apologise to you and you ignored my message. But I’d appreciate it if you were not rude to me and kept your quotes on topic.


----------



## Danneq (Mar 30, 2018)

ChasingDopamine said:


> Listen to a most genres, most often vocal acoustic or pop music, EDM, rap, or classical. Pretty sensitive to treble so anything too bright is a no go for me. I plan on driving it from a chord mojo or straight out of a samsung note 8 on the move.



I haven't read all the latest replies on this thread so you might have gotten this recommendation already, but a solid earbud that is also easily driven (32 ohm I think) is Cypherus CampFred 2. Smooth but still detailed treble and actual sub bass (in an earbud!). Zero brightness or sibilance.

They cost $199 excluding shipping and are made by a tiny Indonesian company called Cypherus. You can check out the Cypherus audio Facebook page or contacy Herry of Cypherus here on Head fi. Or go to the Cypherus homepage: https://www.cypherusaudio.com/

CampFred 2 uses standard Sennheiser MX400/500 housings and some people might find those too big. Shozy Stardust/BK is another great TOTL earbud that uses smaller housings but which is slightly more bright and has got less sub bass than CampFred 2. I am quite sensitive to brightness and I don't have any problem with my pair of Stardust. I have sold earbuds in the past because I could not live with the "hot" treble.


----------



## seanc6441

ChasingDopamine said:


> Also does anyone have any recommendations around the 100-400$ mark which can be driven straight from a phone?


Depends on your phone. I have the Iphone 6s and it can drive moderately difficult to drive earbuds and portable headphones, but I also bought an LG V20 which can drive many full size headphones and any earbud pretty much. Some of the latest phones are surprisingly powerful, but others are capped by the manufacturer etc.


----------



## Danneq

praetor47 said:


> to everyone: has anybody tried those weird Dunu Alpha 1 hybrids? how are the good ole Yuins holding up in today's market, particularly the PK1 and OK1? that form factor is by far the best (and sexiest!) for me, as far as earbuds go.



I really liked Dunu Alpha's sound and tried to convince myself to keep them. But unfortunately the fit was too poor for my ears. The Alphas are just too big for me. I found the combination of dynamic driver for lows mids and BA driver for highs to be quite unique. If dunu could release a new version of Alpha that was a bit better fit wise, I would buy it.

I really liked Yuin PK1, but actually think that most curent TOTL earbuds are better...


----------



## chaiyuta

@seanc6441 : you have never tried those earbuds, why don't you just leave those questions to who has real experience answers those question. @mbwilson111 friendly warned you. do you really think that your action is really good? If it is really good why others have to warn you? and you always judge how earbuds sound without actual listening to others. If you really think my statement is a little unfair, you will not type later sentences in a way more serious. Do you really want to apologize me from the bottom of heart? Please reconsider yourself.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 30, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> @seanc6441 : you have never tried those earbuds, why don't you just leave those questions to who has real experience answers those question. @mbwilson111 friendly warned you. do you really think that your action is really good? If it is really good why others have to warn you? and you always judge how earbuds sound without actual listening to others. If you really think my statement is a little unfair, you will not type later sentences in a way more serious. Do you really want to apologize me from the bottom of heart? Please reconsider yourself.


Yes actually I was apologising because you felt I had been disrespectful or something quoting your impressions, I didn’t intend that so I apologised and tried to ‘mend the bridge’ with you. I never want to make enemies I’m here for the same reason as you, we love earbuds 

I don’t proclaim to own these earbuds, I mirror sentiments that have been said by others in the thread who do own them. Ok yes on that occasion I said ‘maybe, I feel, could be’ a little too much, and I acknowledged that to mbwilson in my reply.

If we all only answered questions to gear we own and don’t use our knowledge of others opinions or research we have done, isn’t this putting all the responsibility on ClieOS and 3-4 other members with this much gear to answer every question?

If I say clearly that I’m quoting the opinion of someone who owns it, or recommend something because 9/10 people on the form have praised it. Is this not acceptable? Like wise I will always say ‘let someone who owns this earbud add to the discussion’ if I’m not sure.

But in the end we are all here for the earbuds, and if it bothers people I will be more restrained in my responses to people seeking advice.

My apology was genuine, I don’t apologise for no reason, I want to be on good terms with people on here as this is a cool place to share our opinions and interest in earbuds.

Let’s call a truce?


----------



## noknok23

@seanc6441 
We are hear differently, because of fit, source, personal knowledge and preferences, etc. I think it is very important for the quality and health of the thread to only share our own impressions and not echoes the one of others. I think it's also written in the rules somewhere. The best way you can help imo is tell someone there is a search button in this thread and some impressions has already been made.

On another note I find problematic to recommend someone earphones you didn't heard yourself. Don't believe the hype!
@chaiyuta if someone bothers you that much you can try to solve the issue in PM , also the "ignore" button works pretty well. Public witch-hunt is not nice for anyone...


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 30, 2018)

noknok23 said:


> @seanc6441
> We are hear differently, because of fit, source, personal knowledge and preferences, etc. I think it is very important for the quality and health of the thread to only share our own impressions and not echoes the one of others. I think it's also written in the rules somewhere. The best way you can help imo is tell someone there is a search button in this thread and some impressions has already been made.
> 
> On another note I find problematic to recommend someone earphones you didn't heard yourself. Don't believe the hype!
> @chaiyuta if someone bothers you that much you can try to solve the issue in PM , also the "ignore" button works pretty well. Public witch-hunt is not nice for anyone...


I realise that and I will work on it, I do see how it’s reducing the validity of the advice if I use language like “maybe, possibly etc” when giving advice as it’s not concrete. So I will work on that and only give advice to seek info from owners and provide direct quotes for the person to decide himself.

But as an example someone has asked advice a page back on buying a TOTL earbud and was looking for something non fatiguing in the treble. I have just bought the black ling after researching a little and reading the opinion of ClieOS, so I suggested to him to check that bud out and quoted ClieOS’s very informative post on the K’s white/black ling and Poseidon.

Is this not helpful to people? Am I wrong to suggest it and provide first hand info to him because I have not heard it yet?

Not being smart it’s an honest question, it’s good to know the line between helpful advice and inaccurate/misleading advice. Thanks!


----------



## Narayan23

chaiyuta said:


> @seanc6441 : you have never tried those earbuds, why don't you just leave those questions to who has real experience answers those question. @mbwilson111 friendly warned you. do you really think that your action is really good? If it is really good why others have to warn you? and you always judge how earbuds sound without actual listening to others. If you really think my statement is a little unfair, you will not type later sentences in a way more serious. Do you really want to apologize me from the bottom of heart? Please reconsider yourself.



My humble suggestion is you do like The Beatles and "Let It Be", you´re free to say what you want but I recommend the "Mbwilson Book of Style" because once you get into personal territory things can get ugly, Sean was gentlemanlike in his offering of an appology and to move on. If you can´t then I propose a duel tomorrow at dawn, I will be the second of both of you and the weapon of choice shall be water pistols.


----------



## kurtextrem (Mar 30, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Is this not helpful to people? Am I wrong to suggest it and provide first hand info to him because I have not heard it yet?



While I think all of this topic rather belongs to PM's, your advice is helpful to me and probably to the others. I see what the others mean, you shouldn't post believes about earbuds, but it's perfectly fine to state what others have said (if you mark it like that - and you do), especially as you help pretty quick (and a sale needs quick responses  ).
Thus, I can't understand the aggressiveness of others in this topic. This is the same attitude of people we have to thank for because of which ClieOS' removed his ranking.


----------



## Carrow

Majin said:


> Did you use tons of coupons? or did you buy it used?



Used, off eBay


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 30, 2018)

Time to get back on topic and move forward!

@Yobster69 I see you’re active last few pages, did you catch my post on the 3 hole foam method (by clieOS) I talked about and posted a pic of on my masya and bs1? It’s worked wonders for my masya and probably for yours too 

Takes away any harshness and gives vocal clarity and a smoother quality than thin foams I had shown to you before.


----------



## ChasingDopamine

Guys let's not escalate. Seanc posted with a disclaimer in the original post that the information was from another source, and I interpreted it with the appropriate pinch of salt in that regard. Any critical thinker will consider this, especially with the disclaimer. It was still appreicated as it was some information as opposed to no information. I am am aware that the market for earbuds isn't as diverse as full size headphones or IEMs, so any information is welcome.


----------



## snip3r77

AmericanEDC said:


> Toneking TO400s ordered
> EMX500s (another 2 on the way)
> Some others as well. PT15, etc.
> 
> ...



I just purchased blind the pt15. I got through new graphene clears. How does the pt15 sounds . 

If I have the graphene, is emxs500 a sidegrsde? 

Thanksn


----------



## ChasingDopamine

Does anyone have any expirence with VE Zen? Seems decent however 320 ohms 108db sensitivity not certain I could drive that from a galaxy note 8.

I couldn't find an order page on cypherus website, do I have to contact the seller to arrange if I go for the campfred?

Hoping to place an order today on AliExpress before the sale ends, if I can make a choice in time.


----------



## ctaxxxx

praetor47 said:


> while you're here... how would you compare the IT01 to some of the TOTL earbuds like the Campfred 2, Blur something 300s and Shozy BK? would you say the Campfred 2 and/or the Blur are comparable to some similarly priced fullsize cans like the HD6xx and AKG7xx series? thanks in advance



I always felt that TOTL buds easily compete with headphones 2-3x their price. After that, it becomes more debatable. There are design limitations to an earbud and I rarely see much innovation in changing that. At this point, modders / creators further improve sound quality through meticulous tuning (like Cypherus) and use of more expensive materials (metal housing or better cable), unlike some IEMs where they kind of slap more drivers in and call it day. You would be surprised how poor some of the higher end (C)IEMs really sound.

I've always liked TOTL buds because they achieve a very good level of resolution, while presenting a very natural tuning, and at a much lower cost (look at the Vido - popular $5 earbud). I think it's mainly due to the design. When you lack the seal of an IEM, you have to over compensate with the bass levels, which makes it a little more warm in the overall signature. This means most TOTL earbuds are pretty pleasing to listen to. Not to mention the small form factor for easy portability.

Just don't expect HD800 levels of resolution or TH-900 levels of visceral bass (though the ZoomFred makes me think otherwise lol. Really wish I didn't have a seal issue...). Typing this though makes me wonder how the CAX Red Dragon earbuds ($700) fairs, since my statement above implies it would be comparable to $1000+ dollar headphones. They might just be the high point of what an earbud can achieve.

For TOTL recommendations, I always recommend CampFred 2 by Cypherus, since they're a great all rounder. Shozy BK is another great one, more central around vocals and a smaller, more comfortable housing. I haven't heard of any K's earbuds, though I've been meaning to eventually. Liebesleid I've always mentioned as a mini HD800S. Not sure what else. The new Cypherus ZoomFred for TOTL bass.


----------



## AmericanEDC

snip3r77 said:


> I just purchased blind the pt15. I got through new graphene clears. How does the pt15 sounds .
> 
> If I have the graphene, is emxs500 a sidegrsde?
> 
> Thanksn


I’m ordering everything blind also. 
I don’t have the PT15’s yet, ordered yesterday. I did order more emx500s. I’ll put them in different places: my kids are always asking if anyone has earbuds. I’m not sure what you mean by “sidegrsde” but if you’re asking if anything will make another obsolete, it’s a question I have been asking myself as I acquire around a dozen different buds. I can already tell I’m reaching for the emx500s over the Monk+. I’m not sure about these other collectors but there must be earbuds that seriously collect dust in their collections.


----------



## ChasingDopamine

Currently looking at the shozy BK, cypherus campfred (or other product in range), rose mojito or toneking 400. Planning to drive them straight from my phone and maybe a mojo when stationary. Can anyone comment on how these might compare to full size cans such as the Shure 1540 or sennheiser HD600? And also how much better do they sound compared to crappyc earbuds like apple airpods?


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 30, 2018)

ChasingDopamine said:


> Currently looking at the shozy BK, cypherus campfred (or other product in range), rose mojito or toneking 400. Planning to drive them straight from my phone and maybe a mojo when stationary. Can anyone comment on how these might compare to full size cans such as the Shure 1540 or sennheiser HD600? And also how much better do they sound compared to crappyc earbuds like apple airpods?


I used earpods for like 5 years before I discovered this thread/this earbud resurgennce. Moving from earpods to $5 monks was an upgrade slightly in resolution and in overall balance/tonality, moving up to $100 Masya and BS1 was a huge improvement from earpods in every single aspect... then I went back to earpods to compare and all I could hear was flabby midbass, grainy vocals... So  the upgrade is definitely worth it haha

Shozy BK is wonderful but beware the soundstage is more ‘intimate’ and doesn’t handle busier genres like metal or EDM very well. It’s more for natural genres like acoustic/rock/jazz and vocal.

Yes I own this one so it’s my impression


----------



## mbwilson111 (Mar 30, 2018)

AmericanEDC said:


> I’m ordering everything blind also.



I order everything blind.  I try to figure out if I might like something based on what others say, but, because we are all different,  I cannot know for sure.  I am actually rarely disappointed because I do enjoy different sound signatures.  As I often say, if I can get into my music I am happy even if the bud, iem, or headphone is not "the best and most perfect."

I AM disappointed if something is uncomfortable.




AmericanEDC said:


> I’m not sure what you mean by “sidegrsde” but if you’re asking if anything will make another obsolete, it’s a question I have been asking myself as I acquire around a dozen different buds.



To me it just means that it will not be better or worse... just different.  Depending on what YOU like and how you hear things, it may seem better or worse though.




AmericanEDC said:


> I’m not sure about these other collectors but there must be earbuds that seriously collect dust in their collections.



Of course those of us who have too much gear do have things that are gathering dust.   There is only so much time in the day.  I have things that I have not used in a long time that I actually do love when I do use them.

This is Headfi's fault... I get too curious.  Actually it is my fault for being so suggestible and and for not being realistic about how much time (to use them) and space (for storage) I have.

I need to stop adding new things.  I think I am done collecting headphones and iems.  Reached my "end game" with those.  I can see myself wanting a couple of more buds at some point...

From the ali sale I am only getting a cable for one of my KZ iems and I am getting the Memt T5 which is a pod thing.  Do pods belong in the bud category?  At the moment I  have mine listed separately in my profile.  Very curious to see how Memt has done with these as I do like my Memt X5 IEM and my Memt X6 bud.


----------



## chaiyuta

seanc6441 said:


> Yes actually I was apologising because you felt I had been disrespectful or something quoting your impressions, I didn’t intend that so I apologised and tried to ‘mend the bridge’ with you. I never want to make enemies I’m here for the same reason as you, we love earbuds
> 
> I don’t proclaim to own these earbuds, I mirror sentiments that have been said by others in the thread who do own them. Ok yes on that occasion I said ‘maybe, I feel, could be’ a little too much, and I acknowledged that to mbwilson in my reply.
> 
> ...



Well, I believe that in this time you already thoroughly think carefully before you wrote this comment. You will still keep doing on what do think or you will alter your action based on other's advise is up to you. Do you remember that you was the one who trigger 'cable' drama and many people here including me softly and gently imply you to stop on their own way. In case of me, I recommended you that there are a cable thread you can discuss, and this thread is earbud main-focus. In that time, you still keep asking until there was some guys here have to written comments down in constructive way and use 'forum rule' to convince you to stop. This is very main reason that I think softly and gently comments don't work with you. It means if someone don't make a solid constructive reply back, you still keep asking out of topic issue. This time is my fault. I intended to trigger your anger button. and Yes, you ignited. A few people can't resist and stood up to write comments back to advise me and you. By the way, now I know what your thought and your intention. I am fine with your careful comment. Let's move on.



noknok23 said:


> @seanc6441
> We are hear differently, because of fit, source, personal knowledge and preferences, etc. I think it is very important for the quality and health of the thread to only share our own impressions and not echoes the one of others. I think it's also written in the rules somewhere. The best way you can help imo is tell someone there is a search button in this thread and some impressions has already been made.
> 
> On another note I find problematic to recommend someone earphones you didn't heard yourself. Don't believe the hype!
> @chaiyuta if someone bothers you that much you can try to solve the issue in PM , also the "ignore" button works pretty well. Public witch-hunt is not nice for anyone...



I blamed Mr. seanc6441 as 'pro-wannabe' and now I was blamed as 'witch-hunt'. Mr. seanc6441 replied me back with this statement, "I’m enthusiastic about helping people who are you to judge me for that". Well, I won't reply you in this kind of statement. All I will say is "Sorry that my action disturbed you and I believe that not only you who get trouble so I sincerely apologise you all. There are many time I tried to indirect and gentle comments to him both public here in this thread and via PM as well but they seem didn't work and it is not only me who get annoyed. there are others as well (and perhaps include you too). In short, all of this off-topic is triggered by me and now everything seems like already solved. Thanks for stand up and your advice as well."


----------



## ChasingDopamine

seanc6441 said:


> I used earpods for like 5 years before I discovered this thread/this earbud resurgennce. Moving from earpods to $5 monks was an upgrade slightly in resolution and in overall balance/tonality, moving up to $100 Masya and BS1 was a huge improvement from earpods in every single aspect... then I went back to earpods to compare and all I could hear was flabby midbass, grainy vocals... So  the upgrade is definitely worth it haha
> 
> Shozy BK is wonderful but beware the soundstage is more ‘intimate’ and doesn’t handle busier genres like metal or EDM very well. It’s more for natural genres like acoustic/rock/jazz and vocal.
> 
> Yes I own this one so it’s my impression





seanc6441 said:


> I used earpods for like 5 years before I discovered this thread/this earbud resurgennce. Moving from earpods to $5 monks was an upgrade slightly in resolution and in overall balance/tonality, moving up to $100 Masya and BS1 was a huge improvement from earpods in every single aspect... then I went back to earpods to compare and all I could hear was flabby midbass, grainy vocals... So  the upgrade is definitely worth it haha
> 
> Shozy BK is wonderful but beware the soundstage is more ‘intimate’ and doesn’t handle busier genres like metal or EDM very well. It’s more for natural genres like acoustic/rock/jazz and vocal.
> 
> Yes I own this one so it’s my impression




For a long time I was frustrated at the lack of  better earbuds on the market. my usual sources are Amazon etc.. , it's clear that alot of the earbuds market is being driven from Asia, hence why my searching came up empty(also does not help that many refer to earphones and ear buds interchangeably!). I was very excited to find this thread and was hoping that the TOTL models were capable of great sound, and that the limitations of IEMs were not the reason other mainstream manufacturers had given up in favour of IEMs only.

Had anyone ordered directly from penon audio website? I've never shopped on AliExpress so still learning about the ordering process from the east.


----------



## seanc6441

ChasingDopamine said:


> For a long time I was frustrated at the lack of  better earbuds on the market. my usual sources are Amazon etc.. , it's clear that alot of the earbuds market is being driven from Asia, hence why my searching came up empty(also does not help that many refer to earphones and ear buds interchangeably!). I was very excited to find this thread and was hoping that the TOTL models were capable of great sound, and that the limitations of IEMs were not the reason other mainstream manufacturers had given up in favour of IEMs only.
> 
> Had anyone ordered directly from penon audio website? I've never shopped on AliExpress so still learning about the ordering process from the east.


Aliexpress is as convenient as ebay/amazon in my experience. It’s a very good site. Penon is a very reputable site too, more niche obviously for portable audio but the customer service is good and the shipping in my experience is a little faster than aliexpress to EU.


----------



## ChasingDopamine

seanc6441 said:


> Aliexpress is as convenient as ebay/amazon in my experience. It’s a very good site. Penon is a very reputable site too, more niche obviously for portable audio but the customer service is good and the shipping in my experience is a little faster than aliexpress to EU.



I was wondering if you had to pay any additional import tax when ordering to Ireland? I'm just trying to figure out if I have to work that into the cost.


----------



## seanc6441

chaiyuta said:


> Well, I believe that in this time you already thoroughly think carefully before you wrote this comment. You will still keep doing on what do think or you will alter your action based on other's advise is up to you. Do you remember that you was the one who trigger 'cable' drama and many people here including me softly and gently imply you to stop on their own way. In case of me, I recommended you that there are a cable thread you can discuss, and this thread is earbud main-focus. In that time, you still keep asking until there was some guys here have to written comments down in constructive way and use 'forum rule' to convince you to stop. This is very main reason that I think softly and gently comments don't work with you. It means if someone don't make a solid constructive reply back, you still keep asking out of topic issue. This time is my fault. I intended to trigger your anger button. and Yes, you ignited. A few people can't resist and stood up to write comments back to advise me and you. By the way, now I know what your thought and your intention. I am fine with your careful comment. Let's move on.
> 
> 
> 
> I blamed Mr. seanc6441 as 'pro-wannabe' and now I was blamed as 'witch-hunt'. Mr. seanc6441 replied me back with this statement, "I’m enthusiastic about helping people who are you to judge me for that". Well, I won't reply you in this kind of statement. All I will say is "Sorry that my action disturbed you and I believe that not only you who get trouble so I sincerely apologise you all. There are many time I tried to indirect and gentle comments to him both public here in this thread and via PM as well but they seem didn't work and it is not only me who get annoyed. there are others as well (and perhaps include you too). In short, all of this off-topic is triggered by me and now everything seems like already solved. Thanks for stand up and your advice as well."


Well I had a feeling your issue with me was because I was not sure about cable differences at the time and you were a firm believer. As soon I said that I wasn’t willing to spend big money on custom cables as I was new to this hobby your tone chsnged with me. I get it we had a difference of opinion but it’s nothing to be annoyed about we all have different opinions on every matter it’s just life 

As for my mention of cables before, It was i response to another’s comments and I stated that I wasn’t sure of it’s benefit (I was not a believer or dis believer but I had heard from people there’s no science to it so that’s the only thing I knew at that time). 

Remember I was very new to this thread and to headfi at the time and didn’t know any better to the etiquette of cable talk and as soon as you PM’d me to inform me of the issue of talking about it, I stopped immediately.

This was all in the past man, I’ve learned now and have different opinions than when I started and as such is the nature of experience your beliefs will change/advance.

So lets end it here and now, I just want us to be friendly and I will improve on my mistakes. Let’s move forward?


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 30, 2018)

ChasingDopamine said:


> I was wondering if you had to pay any additional import tax when ordering to Ireland? I'm just trying to figure out if I have to work that into the cost.


Never had a package caught so far from standard mail services. Only time I got charged massively was when penon sent my bs1 by DHL courier (they thought it’d be nice for 5 day delivery) and it was nice, until I get a €37 handling and imports fee on my €50 earbuds... I was pissed off to say the least lol

But not at penon, just at DHL 

Normally penon use standard mail but this was a special deal done for a promotional discount. I was one of the earlier buyers of the new BS1 so they wanted to get it to us quickly for impressions I think.


----------



## chaiyuta

@seanc6441 I am ready to move on for long time. Let's do it.


----------



## Yobster69

seanc6441 said:


> Time to get back on topic and move forward!
> 
> @Yobster69 I see you’re active last few pages, did you catch my post on the 3 hole foam method (by clieOS) I talked about and posted a pic of on my masya and bs1? It’s worked wonders for my masya and probably for yours too
> 
> Takes away any harshness and gives vocal clarity and a smoother quality than thin foams I had shown to you before.


Hi Sean, yes I had my friend and I have been periodically changing the foams on the Masya (thanks again BTW, fantastic buds, my favourite now) and one ‘experiment’ was some full foams with 4 holes cut into them over a silicone ring. It gave a decent seal for some bass but more room to breathe, which made it fantastic for vocal and acoustic music, but I moved back to a Hiegi donut over a thin donut for EDM listening. 

I have also been enjoying the Willsound Mk2’s since they arrived. These are now my second faves behind the Masyas, fantastic buds for just over £30 delivered. I genuinely recommend them and they do not get enough mention in this thread.


----------



## ChasingDopamine

Does anyone know if toneking 400 could be driven from a smartphone(galaxy note 8)? Its 400 ohms but 112 dB sensitivity. For comparison my Shure 1540 full sizesize headphones can be driven fine at 32 ohms 99db sensitivity). This leads me to believe the toneking should be fine as they are more sensitive despite having a much much higher impedance?

On a separate note, would the campfred2 or Shozy BK be noticeably better than the toneking?


----------



## teston

seanc6441 said:


> Never had a package caught so far from standard mail services. Only time I got charged massively was when penon sent my bs1 by DHL courier (they thought it’d be nice for 5 day delivery) and it was nice, until I get a €37 handling and imports fee on my €50 earbuds... I was pissed off to say the least lol
> 
> But not at penon, just at DHL
> 
> Normally penon use standard mail but this was a special deal done for a promotional discount. I was one of the earlier buyers of the new BS1 so they wanted to get it to us quickly for impressions I think.


Yes the premium shipping like DHL and EMS is often charged for import tax and handling fee (also customs clearance and personal purchasing evidence is sometime need if you ship it to company address).
I had some very bad experiences with them so I moved to regular shipping options although they take more time to arrive. There is hell back then when I ordered the Ve Zen.


----------



## seanc6441

Yobster69 said:


> Hi Sean, yes I had my friend and I have been periodically changing the foams on the Masya (thanks again BTW, fantastic buds, my favourite now) and one ‘experiment’ was some full foams with 4 holes cut into them over a silicone ring. It gave a decent seal for some bass but more room to breathe, which made it fantastic for vocal and acoustic music, but I moved back to a Hiegi donut over a thin donut for EDM listening.
> 
> I have also been enjoying the Willsound Mk2’s since they arrived. These are now my second faves behind the Masyas, fantastic buds for just over £30 delivered. I genuinely recommend them and they do not get enough mention in this thread.


 

Not too far off 

I went with 3 holes and 3 tiny ones (cannot be seen on the black foam) at the edges for some airy treble without any sharp high’s.

For cutting the trick I found was (assuming you don’t have a hole punch/leather punch) if you pinch the foam and cut out an inverted V it the foam, it forms a a oval shape cut out.

Repeat as necessary using the place you pinch/fold the foam as the centre point.

It’s a remarkable improvement from the edgy vocals from before to a noticeably smoother approach with the same clear crisp quality.


----------



## noknok23

ChasingDopamine said:


> Does anyone know if toneking 400 could be driven from a smartphone(galaxy note 8)? Its 400 ohms but 112 dB sensitivity. For comparison my Shure 1540 full sizesize headphones can be driven fine at 32 ohms 99db sensitivity). This leads me to believe the toneking should be fine as they are more sensitive despite having a much much higher impedance?
> 
> On a separate note, would the campfred2 or Shozy BK be noticeably better than the toneking?


I myself won't use an earphone above 64ohms if used with a phone regardless of the sensitivity.


----------



## Majin

Man Aliexpress had some last minute coupon deals. Ordered EMX500s, Seahf 64 and vido for less than 12 euro's.
Got 6 earphones coming right now


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> I like using them over ear, but regular down position works nice too.
> 
> I hope you'll  like it, it is one of the buds that i like very much, both the sound and looks



I'm pretty sure I will like them. 

It's interesting though that you and DBaldock9 have the 115ohm version and others including HungryPanda have the 32ohm version, but as far as I can tell, nobody here has heard both to compare.


----------



## ChasingDopamine

I think I might go for the toneking400s. I like the removable cables and the price seems acceptable to let me test if earbuds are right for me lifestyle wise. If so I'll be expecting to upgrade very shortly. I'm hoping my phone can drive it, otherwise might have to get a dap or a dragonfly


----------



## Saoshyant

Those foams remind me of https://www.aliexpress.com/item/rubber-ring-rubber-sleeve-for-15mm-speaker/32443374347.html


----------



## HungryPanda

I can drive the Toneking TO400s from my LG V30, but they sound much better from my desktop dac/amp


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> I can drive the Toneking TO400s from my LG V30, but they sound much better from my desktop dac/amp


Is that true of all your earbuds or just the high impendance ones? I was assuming my V20 would be good with them but I’m looking to get the Hiby R6 when it comes to EU sellers and that’s more powerful than V20/30 so that should do 

Is it a matter of the power being better or the synergy with your desktop setup being better, if you can tell?


----------



## AmericanEDC

ChasingDopamine said:


> I think I might go for the toneking400s. I like the removable cables and the price seems acceptable to let me test if earbuds are right for me lifestyle wise. If so I'll be expecting to upgrade very shortly. I'm hoping my phone can drive it, otherwise might have to get a dap or a dragonfly



Well...I did, as my first pair to break $50.00 U.S. Lol!
How can you go wrong given all this talk and a price WAY below your $400 budget threshold. I personally would not go that high for buds. Over the ear perhaps and in time but not buds. 
I own Sennheiser HD6xx's and AKG-Kxx off Massdrop from here in the U.S. I even have a DarkVoice tube amp on the way for all of these headphones.
But I honestly don't believe your Note 8 will properly drive them at 400 ohms. This based on my iphone X experience with the 150 ohm Seahf AWK-F150C. They're muffled and painfully bad on just my phone, open up with the DAC/AMP. I haven't critically listened yet, I'm having too much fun with my emx500s still in my pocket again today. I have an entire pile of cheaper options I recently acquired so I'm trying to familiarize myself with one at a time.

I intend to use with my portable Creative e5 which is rated to 600 ohms with the Tonekings.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 30, 2018)

AmericanEDC said:


> Well...I did, as my first pair to break $50.00 U.S. Lol!
> How can you go wrong given all this talk and a price WAY below your $400 budget threshold. I personally would not go that high for buds. Over the ear perhaps and in time but not buds.
> I own Sennheiser HD6xx's and AKG-Kxx off Massdrop from here in the U.S. I even have a DarkVoice tube amp on the way for all of these headphones.
> But I honestly don't believe your Note 8 will properly drive them at 400 ohms. This based on my iphone X experience with the 150 ohm Seahf AWK-F150C. They're muffled and painfully bad on just my phone, open up with the DAC/AMP. I haven't critically listened yet, I'm having too much fun with my emx500s still in my pocket again today. I have an entire pile of cheaper options I recently acquired so I'm trying to familiarize myself with one at a time.
> ...


I mean LG V2/30 is rated to 600ohms but I guess that’s a meaningless figure. I’m gonna try it on my V20 see how it goes.

The Hiby dap is 300mw @32ohm but I’m not sure how that translates to 300-600 ohm gear... All I know is it’s bee considered powerful for a DAP so we shall see 

Also your Iphone X is using the apple audio adapter right? I dunno if that’s doing it justice power wise, may be an inadequate audio usb c adapter  for higher impendance stuff.


----------



## ChasingDopamine

AmericanEDC said:


> Well...I did, as my first pair to break $50.00 U.S. Lol!
> How can you go wrong given all this talk and a price WAY below your $400 budget threshold. I personally would not go that high for buds. Over the ear perhaps and in time but not buds.
> I own Sennheiser HD6xx's and AKG-Kxx off Massdrop from here in the U.S. I even have a DarkVoice tube amp on the way for all of these headphones.
> But I honestly don't believe your Note 8 will properly drive them at 400 ohms. This based on my iphone X experience with the 150 ohm Seahf AWK-F150C. They're muffled and painfully bad on just my phone, open up with the DAC/AMP. I haven't critically listened yet, I'm having too much fun with my emx500s still in my pocket again today. I have an entire pile of cheaper options I recently acquired so I'm trying to familiarize myself with one at a time.
> ...



Ah thank you for that information. I almost ordered them based on the sensitivity but will hold fire. At this present moment i don't intend to use earbuds with an external dac (use the mojo with my full-size, but that stays stationary) and I've yet to invest in a dap. Perhaps will have to reconsider something more appropriate for a phone like campfred or shozy BK.

Out of curiotisy, as I have never heard an earbud except the disposable ones included free with various items, how does your best earbud compete against the 6XX I'm terms of sound quality?


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 30, 2018)

.


----------



## daid1

**** EMXs 500 and Fengru EMX 500s are the same?


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> The Hiby dap is 300mw @32ohm but I’m not sure how that translates to 300-600 ohm gear... All I know is it’s bee considered powerful for a DAP so we shall see



That is a good amount of power.  My most powerful daps are my Cayin N3 and my Hidizs AP200... each are  130mw@32ohm.  I was listening to Panda's Toneking TO400s with the Cayin N3 a couple of nights ago and it was driving them...sounded good.  I do not know if they were at their best though.  I never got around to trying them with my desk amp.  I normally prefer to use headphones when I am using my PC desktop setup or my tube amp in the living room.  Any buds or iems that I own I want to be able to use with my daps.  I do not carry a smartphone.  I have no desire for a device that would just interrupt the music and annoy me...LOL.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 30, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> That is a good amount of power.  My most powerful daps are my Cayin N3 and my Hidizs AP200... each are  130mw@32ohm.  I was listening to Panda's Toneking TO400s with the Cayin N3 a couple of nights ago and it was driving them...sounded good.  I do not know if they were at their best though.  I never got around to trying them with my desk amp.  I normally prefer to use headphones when I am using my PC desktop setup or my tube amp in the living room.  Any buds or iems that I own I want to be able to use with my daps.  I do not carry a smartphone.  I have no desire for a device that would just interrupt the music and annoy me...LOL.


I guess the beauty of high impendance stuff is the scaling factor to more powerful amps. I mean as long as it sounds as good as comparable earbuds on your dap or my v20 im ok with that.

Although knowing it’s not quite at 100% would niggle away at me lol. I have one headphone to justify buying the R6 hehe, even though the R3 is half the price or less and will run all my sensitive buds
The way I see it is if I have one awesome dap for all purposes I’m set for the long haul.

Oh and I will FINALLY be able to hear my **** PT 15 using the cable from TO400s LMAO


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> I mean as long as it sounds as good as comparable earbuds on your dap or my v20 im ok with that.



You will find out when it arrives.  Have you already ordered the R6?


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> You will find out when it arrives.  Have you already ordered the R6?


Was tempted to back it now on indigogo for like 10–15% off, then I thought about import charges assuming indigogo = US based warehouse. Then I remembered Hiby is shipping from China which is less likely to get caught for me with import tax, but not impossible.

So now I have to decide, I’m leaning towards getting it now and taking my chances. The batches are currently shipping, so If I ordered now I’d get it in like 3-4 weeks I’d imagine or sooner.


----------



## seanc6441

I ordered it, there was 5 left at the reduced price and I didn’t want to miss out. Now the wait.


----------



## AmericanEDC

ChasingDopamine said:


> Ah thank you for that information. I almost ordered them based on the sensitivity but will hold fire. At this present moment i don't intend to use earbuds with an external dac (use the mojo with my full-size, but that stays stationary) and I've yet to invest in a dap. Perhaps will have to reconsider something more appropriate for a phone like campfred or shozy BK.
> 
> Out of curiotisy, as I have never heard an earbud except the disposable ones included free with various items, how does your best earbud compete against the 6XX I'm terms of sound quality?



Fast answer: my best buds now completely blow away the supplied Apple earpods, the Apple airpods (wireless), I'd say the RHA-750i's (from your neck of the woods), other IEMs I own as well including the Zolo by Anker Liberty+. It's a completely different sound experience from my Sennheisers which are fantastic but clamp my head like a son of a female dog. I'm really liking the feel of better buds for lengthy listening, airiness, awareness of surroundings while out (I'm listening in the grocery store for example).

Longer answer:

First, I'm no expert. I've loved music forever and have invested in some good stuff over the years. My computer speakers are Paradigm Audio Studio 20's v.3 (Canadian: $1,500+) powered by an NAD VISO Five, so even in my office I have some pretty decent sound.

I've more recently purchased some middle of the road stuff as the bang for the buck with headphones is much more family budget friends....translated as Wife Acceptance Factor. I can fire off $200 orders for gear occasionally without any guilt.

I did some research and couldn't find a single thing detailing the power capability of the Samsung Note 8. Yes they maintained the audio jack and yes they have a hi-res DAC but nothing quoting the audiophile stats of the amplifier. That tells me it would be a fail. That seanc6441 knows what's in his LG also tells me that LG is making a case for better audio. He said it's rated to 600 ohm headphones?

There's a lot more science to it especially with mobile devices serving as source, DAC and amplifier. High impedance headphones will require more voltage than a phone may want to give out given battery management. Low impedance headphones will require more current than perhaps a phone may want to give. This is all part of the wizardry of battery management by the operating systems of Google/Samsung, Apple, etc. No phone company wants a review or user reporting back: my battery lasted 1 hour once I plugged in headphones and listened to a movie, or some music. The operating system of phones probably isn't drilled down to the level of knowing what someone is listening to in such a way as to manage voltages or current to give a better listening experience to the audiophiles in us. They're totally designed for the "average consumer" unless marketed to another: Samsung and Apple aren't really bragging about the built in amplifiers in their devices. Not yet anyways. They might brag about their DAC's a little bit.

As for sound. I haven't found the Sennheiser sound in any of the buds yet. There's a "roundness" or richness to the sound I feel in Sennheiser or that's how I would describe it. I'm sensitive to higher frequency sibilance also that I don't find in Senneiser. I'm really trying to get a feel for all of these buds I ordered and again will laud the performance of the emx500s. the Monk+ are not as capable.


----------



## Saoshyant

What is everyone's favorite earbud that's fallen into obscurity?  The past few days I've fallen in love with Edimun again.  Picked up a Shozy Lancea to play with for $52 shipped, and that combo listening to Sufjan Stevens' John Wayne Gacy Jr. is immaculately beautiful.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 30, 2018)

AmericanEDC said:


> Fast answer: my best buds now completely blow away the supplied Apple earpods, the Apple airpods (wireless), I'd say the RHA-750i's (from your neck of the woods), other IEMs I own as well including the Zolo by Anker Liberty+. It's a completely different sound experience from my Sennheisers which are fantastic but clamp my head like a son of a female dog. I'm really liking the feel of better buds for lengthy listening, airiness, awareness of surroundings while out (I'm listening in the grocery store for example).
> 
> Longer answer:
> 
> ...


As I said above whilst it’s rated up to 600ohm headphones that’s more of a marketing term. The V20 can drive my 300ohm Sennheiser HD540ii ok, I feel like i’m getting maybe 85-85% of it’s potential. Hoping the R6 can give me atleast 95%, a desktop setup would obviously hold no punches giving you the full blast


----------



## mbwilson111

Saoshyant said:


> What is everyone's favorite earbud that's fallen into obscurity?  The past few days I've fallen in love with Edimun again.  Picked up a Shozy Lancea to play with for $52 shipped, and that combo listening to Sufjan Stevens' John Wayne Gacy Jr. is immaculately beautiful.



Philips SHE3800   A recent discovery for me.  Old or unknown to others I suppose.  They just sound really good and are comfortable.   Still on ebay for £4.99.  I bought a spare.


----------



## ChasingDopamine

AmericanEDC said:


> Fast answer: my best buds now completely blow away the supplied Apple earpods, the Apple airpods (wireless), I'd say the RHA-750i's (from your neck of the woods), other IEMs I own as well including the Zolo by Anker Liberty+. It's a completely different sound experience from my Sennheisers which are fantastic but clamp my head like a son of a female dog. I'm really liking the feel of better buds for lengthy listening, airiness, awareness of surroundings while out (I'm listening in the grocery store for example).
> 
> Longer answer:
> 
> ...



Thank you for the detailed response. Indeed it is difficult to come by audiophile specs when looking at most phones (lgv a possible exception as it's marketed for its media capabilities). Indeed even though the note 8 is an absolute powerhouse as a phone (pretty much a computer in your pocket) it falls short as a portable source by our standards on here. The dac isnt great and Android upsamples all audio that isn't routed bitperfectly to usb via an app like UAPP. Thus I'm knowingly taking a hit on anything I plug into the headphone socket. For me is just mostly about trying to find a good earbud that it can drive to try and offset those disadvantages. I have been meaning to get a DAP but that's a whole other adventure.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 30, 2018)

ChasingDopamine said:


> Thank you for the detailed response. Indeed it is difficult to come by audiophile specs when looking at most phones (lgv a possible exception as it's marketed for its media capabilities). Indeed even though the note 8 is an absolute powerhouse as a phone (pretty much a computer in your pocket) it falls short as a portable source by our standards on here. The dac isnt great and Android upsamples all audio that isn't routed bitperfectly to usb via an app like UAPP. Thus I'm knowingly taking a hit on anything I plug into the headphone socket. For me is just mostly about trying to find a good earbud that it can drive to try and offset those disadvantages. I have been meaning to get a DAP but that's a whole other adventure.


In that case stick to under 100 ohms, it’s just a safer bet.

Plenty of amazing low impendance buds. Cypherus was recommended to you before and I think most of those are around 32 ohm.

But a cheaper option that I’m currently loving as an all rounder is the Rose Masya, 16ohm and highly sensitive. Great sound! Deep bass, airy extended high’s and clean musical mid range. With the right foams it’s a little bright (in a nice smooth way) and energetic in the higher frequencies but the bass driver is warm/lush and deep.

It’s around $90-95 during the sale.


----------



## waynes world (Mar 30, 2018)

Saoshyant said:


> What is everyone's favorite earbud that's fallen into obscurity?  The past few days I've fallen in love with Edimun again.  Picked up a Shozy Lancea to play with for $52 shipped, and that combo listening to Sufjan Stevens' John Wayne Gacy Jr. is immaculately beautiful.



A few weeks ago I dug out the original Monks and fell in love with them again. Today I've re-fallen in love with the the Zen 1.0's (but that happens every time I put them in my ears). I'd listen to them more, but they need to live forever lol.

Edit: now _that's_ earbud bass bliss! It will be interesting to see how the 32ohm Svara L's bass compares.


----------



## ChasingDopamine

seanc6441 said:


> In that case stick to under 100 ohms, it’s just a safer bet.
> 
> Plenty of amazing low impendance buds. Cypherus was recommended to you before and I think most of those are around 32 ohm.
> 
> ...



Yes I have been checking out the Cypherus range. Looking at the Campfred2 at the moment. As it's a small operation I believe I would expect a long delivery time to the UK? The maysa looks good and Aliexpress is quoting 7-14 days. Do you know how it would compare Vs the mojito?


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 30, 2018)

ChasingDopamine said:


> Yes I have been checking out the Cypherus range. Looking at the Campfred2 at the moment. As it's a small operation I believe I would expect a long delivery time to the UK? The maysa looks good and Aliexpress is quoting 7-14 days. Do you know how it would compare Vs the mojito?



Not personally, I want the Mojito though 

Mojito is cited as the most resolving earbud around, which makes me want it more lol

Also the thing looks outright gorgeous. If you like that clear on silver look.


----------



## Saoshyant

Campfred 2 of the three mentioned would be the best all-arounder at least for my tastes.  I never really felt like it was a "jack of all trades, master of none" either.  For me I really enjoyed the vocals of the Masya and enjoyed the bass, and for the Mojito enjoyed it's bass and details.  The Campfred 2, however, felt like a step up for my needs.  Soundstage on Mojito is the best of the three.  While the Mojito is technically superior to the Masya, I honestly preferred the Masya's balancing as it suited my needs better.  The Mojito can be quite bright for some, as well.


----------



## Matarro

Finally made up my mind and ordered som stuff. Auglamour RX-1, **** Tank and **** PT15 (to replace my old pair). I was very tempted by both EBX, TO400s and Svara but decided to not buy anything expensive. I'm probably buying Radsone ES100 within a month and thinking of ordering Aurvana Air so I should be satisfied with that. Excited to see what these budget-ish buds have to offer though!


----------



## waynes world

Matarro said:


> Finally made up my mind and ordered som stuff. Auglamour RX-1, **** Tank and **** PT15 (to replace my old pair). I was very tempted by both EBX, TO400s and Svara but decided to not buy anything expensive. I'm probably buying Radsone ES100 within a month and thinking of ordering Aurvana Air so I should be satisfied with that. Excited to see what these budget-ish buds have to offer though!



Congrats! And congratulations on your powers of resistance - enjoy it while you can! I bet you will love the ES100 as well


----------



## HungryPanda

Headroom MS16 has not had much attention from me lately but when I do..............


----------



## Matarro (Mar 30, 2018)

waynes world said:


> Congrats! And congratulations on your powers of resistance - enjoy it while you can! I bet you will love the ES100 as well



Thanks! It's good to see that you're so happy with your ES100, makes me psyched to get one. Radsone have said mid April for EU release so that's what I'm focusing on.

Edit: And as for resistance, I've bought 10 earbuds, one pair of IEMs and a pair of headphones since december. Granted that all but the IEMs were quite cheap but it's becoming difficult to justify it. And I realise it's a modest ammount in the context of this thread.


----------



## waynes world

Matarro said:


> Thanks! It's good to see that you're so happy with your ES100, makes me psyched to get one. Radsone have said mid April for EU release so that's what I'm focusing on.
> 
> Edit: And as for resistance, I've bought 10 earbuds, one pair of IEMs and a pair of headphones since december. Granted that all but the IEMs were quite cheap but it's becoming difficult to justify it. And I realise it's a modest ammount in the context of this thread.



Ok, congrats on the lack of resistance!


----------



## WC Annihilus

All this talk of Aliexpress sales makes me half wish I had waited, but I only want to have one set of buds around and overall I'm quite happy with my BS1's.  Fit/comfort is solid over-ear, the clarity is great, and for me they are quite simply enjoyable to listen to no matter what I throw at them.  I've fallen asleep with them on multiple times now because I lay down for bed but didn't want to stop the music


----------



## doggiemom

rendyG said:


> Guys, whats the difference between these two versions of Graphene bud please?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...e-Earth-Graphene-Custom-Unit/32839988234.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...High-End-Rare-Earth-Graphene/32821104494.html
> thx


These descriptions are quite funny........ graphene is just an allotrope of carbon, hardly a "rare earth" metal.


----------



## waynes world

WC Annihilus said:


> All this talk of Aliexpress sales makes me half wish I had waited, but I only want to have one set of buds around and overall I'm quite happy with my BS1's.  Fit/comfort is solid over-ear, the clarity is great, and for me they are quite simply enjoyable to listen to no matter what I throw at them.  I've fallen asleep with them on multiple times now because I lay down for bed but didn't want to stop the music



I fall asleep with my rare earth graphenes _every_ night    (seriously) 

I am quite surprised at how durable they have been.


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> The Hiby dap is 300mw @32ohm but I’m not sure how that translates to 300-600 ohm gear... All I know is it’s bee considered powerful for a DAP so we shall see


I have the Hiby R6, and it has not had a problem driving any of the high impedance buds that I have (e.g. VE Zen).  It also has a line out and coax out, so it is possible to use it with an external amp or DAC/amp combo.  It is a tad on the bright side (Sabre DAC), but not intolerably so.  I wish that they had used a 3.5 mm balanced jack though - I keep it in my pocket at work, and find that the 2.5 mm connector gets bent fairly easily, and then one of the channels will cut out when pressure is on the connector.  So far it is a great little DAP, and has replaced my beloved iBasso because it handles larger SD cards.


----------



## waynes world

doggiemom said:


> These descriptions are quite funny........ graphene is just an allotrope of carbon, hardly a "rare earth" metal.



I just updated my signature. Hope you like it!


----------



## chinmie

Saoshyant said:


> What is everyone's favorite earbud that's fallen into obscurity?  The past few days I've fallen in love with Edimun again.  Picked up a Shozy Lancea to play with for $52 shipped, and that combo listening to Sufjan Stevens' John Wayne Gacy Jr. is immaculately beautiful.



that would be the red demun. i haven't touched it for quite a while. it's like an old friend to me, even if i rarely use them nowadays, it would take a considerable reasoning for me to let it go. it's a special buds


----------



## golov17

AmericanEDC said:


> Fast answer: my best buds now completely blow away the supplied Apple earpods, the Apple airpods (wireless), I'd say the RHA-750i's (from your neck of the woods), other IEMs I own as well including the Zolo by Anker Liberty+. It's a completely different sound experience from my Sennheisers which are fantastic but clamp my head like a son of a female dog. I'm really liking the feel of better buds for lengthy listening, airiness, awareness of surroundings while out (I'm listening in the grocery store for example).
> 
> Longer answer:
> 
> ...


just look for the series mx90, omx90, lx90 from Sennheiser, I appreciate their sound, despite a bunch of new manufacturers that I have, IMHO


----------



## chinmie

my package has arrived! got a bundle of DFR, Zen 2,and Asura 1 for basically a robbery price 

been listening to this setup all night and finding it hard to put down. the Zen 2 is refreshing for me, as i usually don't like dark sounding earbuds, but this is definitely a pleasant surprise. it's warm sounding and a bit rolled off on bass and treble, but still has enough of them and still clear.

and that mids...oh boy the mids...so nice to hear. 

also this is the only buds that sounded the best (and in fact more headphone like) without foams at all. putting one would mess up the sound. thin foams might be passable, but i would still recommend none


----------



## golov17

chinmie said:


> my package has arrived! got a bundle of DFR, Zen 2,and Asura 1 for basically a robbery price
> 
> been listening to this setup all night and finding it hard to put down. the Zen 2 is refreshing for me, as i usually don't like dark sounding earbuds, but this is definitely a pleasant surprise. it's warm sounding and a bit rolled off on bass and treble, but still has enough of them and still clear.
> 
> ...


Zens good for vocals, yep


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 30, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> These descriptions are quite funny........ graphene is just an allotrope of carbon, hardly a "rare earth" metal.


 they will start using raratanium coated drivers next 




chinmie said:


> my package has arrived! got a bundle of DFR, Zen 2,and Asura 1 for basically a robbery price
> 
> been listening to this setup all night and finding it hard to put down. the Zen 2 is refreshing for me, as i usually don't like dark sounding earbuds, but this is definitely a pleasant surprise. it's warm sounding and a bit rolled off on bass and treble, but still has enough of them and still clear.
> 
> ...


I bet the bass is only rolled off slightly because of the lack of foam to seal it slightly.

I wonder if you tried regular donuts but use hole punch or cut out holes to allow all treble through. Might be some serious sub bass hidden in there 

Of course it’s also refreshing to listen without foams on a dark earbud, just a different sound presentation.


----------



## Carrow

Anywhere good for stocking K's range of earbuds that isn't a certain banned seller who shall remain nameless? All I'm asking for is alternatives and haven't specifically mentioned them, don't delete my post again ***


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> they will start using raratanium coated drivers next
> 
> 
> 
> ...



when a new buds come to my house, i definitely tried every foam setting to find the optimal sound, and this one definitely needs none, or thin ones only. 

adding foams would only increase midbass and boomy-ness of the sound, not extend the bass lower


----------



## chaiyuta (Mar 31, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> These descriptions are quite funny........ graphene is just an allotrope of carbon, hardly a "rare earth" metal.


It seems like 'graphene' still keep in your mind. 
Yesterday I have a chance to try the prototype version of 400-ohm Graphene diaphragm earbuds that my friend bought driver sample units directly from a factory, and he asked me to give him opinion and impression. He tune it pretty well and I gave pros&cons feedback inputs for his further improvement in the next stage.
By the way, rather than whether graphene would be called "rare earth" or not, I have another issue keeping in my mind. That is 'Docomo' earbuds. Docomo is the one of Japanese telecomunication service provider company. However, I ever look up to the docomo website and other Japanese websites. There are some of their offering about smartphone tie up to his telephone/internet monthly fee package contract. Firstly I thought that 'docomo' earbuds might be included as a free gift in such kind of combo, but there is not. Also I've never seen Japanese people wearing 'docomo' earbuds as well both in 90's -2010's Japanese drama, commercial spots and outdoor public too. So I guess this 'docomo' earbuds might be produced and initially sold in China.


----------



## euge

Carrow said:


> Anywhere good for stocking K's range of earbuds that isn't a certain banned seller who shall remain nameless? All I'm asking for is alternatives and haven't specifically mentioned them, don't delete my post again ***



these?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...FI-Fever-DJ-Bass-Earphone-14/32845892015.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...ever-DJ-Bass-Earphone-14-5mm/32845658675.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...rphone-195ohm-High-Impedance/32845120233.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...ance-600-Ohm-Earbud-Earplugs/32826855966.html


----------



## seanc6441

Carrow said:


> Anywhere good for stocking K's range of earbuds that isn't a certain banned seller who shall remain nameless? All I'm asking for is alternatives and haven't specifically mentioned them, don't delete my post again ***


AK audio store


----------



## chinmie

golov17 said:


> Zens good for vocals, yep



Yay to foamless Zen!


----------



## chaiyuta

@golov17 : I just noticed that the metal grille front cover of Zen 1.0 is looks very unique and trendy.


----------



## jrazmar

chinmie said:


> my package has arrived! got a bundle of DFR, Zen 2,and Asura 1 for basically a robbery price
> 
> been listening to this setup all night and finding it hard to put down. the Zen 2 is refreshing for me, as i usually don't like dark sounding earbuds, but this is definitely a pleasant surprise. it's warm sounding and a bit rolled off on bass and treble, but still has enough of them and still clear.
> 
> ...



I had the Zen 2 before and had sold them. Could you please quickly compare the Zen 2.0 vs the Liebesleid? Had the Zen 2.0 overthrown the Liebesleid on your book? Mine is still coming and I'm pretty excited to hear it.


----------



## SweetEars (Mar 31, 2018)

Yobster69 said:


> Hi Sean, yes I had my friend and I have been periodically changing the foams on the Masya (thanks again BTW, fantastic buds, my favourite now) and one ‘experiment’ was some full foams with 4 holes cut into them over a silicone ring. It gave a decent seal for some bass but more room to breathe, which made it fantastic for vocal and acoustic music, but I moved back to a Hiegi donut over a thin donut for EDM listening.
> 
> I have also been enjoying the Willsound Mk2’s since they arrived. These are now my second faves behind the Masyas, fantastic buds for just over £30 delivered. I genuinely recommend them and they do not get enough mention in this thread.




tried this on my EMx 500 and R4YS, the soundstage became kind of expansive and articulated but depth a little more  and bass became less.. the treble became rather less nuanced or i rather call it sibilant. The vocal and overall signature seems to be slightly better in clarity and forwardness  I guess this mod works best on those overly bassy earphones which drown upper frequencies or where the mids are recessed.


----------



## chinmie

jrazmar said:


> I had the Zen 2 before and had sold them. Could you please quickly compare the Zen 2.0 vs the Liebesleid? Had the Zen 2.0 overthrown the Liebesleid on your book? Mine is still coming and I'm pretty excited to hear it.



Overthrow the Liebesleid? No way 
I like clarity and detail. The Liebesleid is still the best compared to any buds doing that in my book. 

The Zen 2 is still a great bud, and a welcome change of sound. 

The Liebesleid has better extention both ways, but less bass volume. The bass is much faster,  snappier and has more kick. Soundstage presentation is also different.

Zen 2 is a pleasant, warm mid sounding buds. It is really enjoyable to listen, just don't expect clarity from it


----------



## jrazmar

Nice to know. So it's really that good then. Thanks.


----------



## Danneq (Mar 31, 2018)

ChasingDopamine said:


> Yes I have been checking out the Cypherus range. Looking at the Campfred2 at the moment. As it's a small operation I believe I would expect a long delivery time to the UK? The maysa looks good and Aliexpress is quoting 7-14 days. Do you know how it would compare Vs the mojito?



When I have bought earbuds from Cypherus, shipping has been fast but expensive (EMS). When I bought them (first QFred, then CampFred 1 & CAX Black edition - both Red Dragon and CampFred 2 were second hand purchases) EMS was the only option available so I had to pay around $40 in shipping costs. Herry wrote a low value on the package so I didn't have to pay import taxes and fees.


----------



## DBaldock9 (Mar 31, 2018)

Since I enjoy listening to my ToneKing TO200, and due to them being available for such a good deal, I went ahead and ordered the TO400s during the AliExpress Sale.
It should be interesting comparing the overall sound of the two models.


----------



## seanc6441

Got these things from nicehck, didn’t even know they sold them separately until I stumbled upon them after buying a balanced cable for my TO400s


 

I like these better than the velco ties


----------



## mbwilson111 (Mar 31, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Got these things from nicehck, didn’t even know they sold them separately until I stumbled upon them after buying a balanced cable for my TO400s
> 
> 
> 
> I like these better than the velco ties



I  have some like that from Amazon UK.  I paid £10.99 for 20 of them.  I wish I had bought the 40 pack as I have to share them with my husband and we both have too much gear.   Now I see they have gone down a bit in price.  £9.19 now for 20.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B075GHBXB2/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&th=1

I wonder if yours cost less.  Do you have a link?


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 31, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I  have some like that from Amazon UK.  I paid £10.99 for 20 of them.  I wish I had bought the 40 pack as I have to share them with my husband and we both have too much gear.   Now I see they have gone down a bit in price.
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B075GHBXB2/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&th=1
> 
> I wonder if yours cost less.  Do you have a link?


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32763088217/32763088217.html

€0.81 each. So £0.71 x 20 = £14.20

Yours is cheaper in bulk!

But I only bought 6 of them. It’s free shipping if you order 3 at a time (4 seems to trigger a shipping charge).

Although I think mine was cheaper or about the same as I bought it during the sale so they were about €0.69 each.


----------



## doggiemom

waynes world said:


> I just updated my signature. Hope you like it!


Very funny.


----------



## doggiemom

mbwilson111 said:


> I  have some like that from Amazon UK.  I paid £10.99 for 20 of them.  I wish I had bought the 40 pack as I have to share them with my husband and we both have too much gear.   Now I see they have gone down a bit in price.
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B075GHBXB2/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&th=1
> 
> I wonder if yours cost less.  Do you have a link?


If you are open to a different style, you could try these:  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot...1e3fe8a&transAbTest=ae803_4&priceBeautifyAB=0

I bought a lot of 100 so am set for a while.


----------



## mbwilson111

doggiemom said:


> If you are open to a different style, you could try these:  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-Cartoon-Cable-Organizer-Bobbin-Winder-Protector-Wire-Cord-Management-Marker-Holder-Cover-For-Earphone-iPhone/
> 
> I bought a lot of 100 so am set for a while.



Wow.  I hope 100 would last for at least a week..LOL


----------



## doggiemom

mbwilson111 said:


> Wow.  I hope 100 would last for at least a week..LOL


I like to rotate the characters.    The cost per piece goes down exponentially when you buy more....... my original intention was to give them away at work, but I keep forgetting to bring them.


----------



## Harry_H

Have bee played around with earbuds this weekend, realized that I'm running out of foams .... Are there any recommendations for thicker foams? Thanks


----------



## DBaldock9

Harry_H said:


> Have bee played around with earbuds this weekend, realized that I'm running out of foams .... Are there any recommendations for thicker foams? Thanks



I've ordered, and used Hiegi foams, from Penon Audio.  They've got full and donut foams - https://penonaudio.com/hiegi-foam-cushions.html


----------



## Saoshyant

Listening to Steve Buscemi's album using Hi-Z 150S and Shozy Lancea, the result is I had to stop due to the headache it caused.  I think this was more an artifact of the album itself instead of anything else in the chain as the sound early on often felt discordant.  The album itself met fairly poor reviews as it was essentially Steve Buscemi reading reading William Burroughs to at times interesting, at other times just odd music performed by Elliot Sharp.

For random albums that came out of nowhere, I think I more enjoyed Ron Jeremy - Understanding & Appreciating Classical Music if nothing else but for the pure unexpectedness of it's release.


----------



## doggiemom

Ron Jeremy?  Like, the porn star Ron Jeremy?


----------



## mbwilson111

doggiemom said:


> Ron Jeremy?  Like, the porn star Ron Jeremy?



I don't know the names of any such stars... lol.


----------



## Saoshyant

doggiemom said:


> Ron Jeremy?  Like, the porn star Ron Jeremy?



Yes, was released during a record store day


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> I don't know the names of any such stars... lol.



I have a bunch of comebacks for you, but I think that all of them would get me in some sort of trouble lol


----------



## bassct

Hello head-fi`ers . I`ve just recently rediscovered the joy of listening to music again . Technological advancements made it oh so much better : tiny USB DACs , multi-driver IEMs , DAPs , AMPs etc.. I remember back in the days all tape players would come w a set of earbuds . Then Sony players , then Creative USB MP3 players . They worked , but its hard to speak about quality since i never compared them with anything . IEMs these days offer great isolation and detailed sound . Old school earbuds would distort very easily once given too much volume . With new materials it should be a different story.

Now ive come across this thread and oh my ... The amount of earbuds is just mind boggling ! I would highly appreciate if some of you would give me recommendations for something thats basshead level . Something thats detailed , yet with a nice low deep rumbling bass , the lower it can go the better . I dont pay too much attention to mids and highs , but if the lows are missing it is of no use .


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 31, 2018)

bassct said:


> Hello head-fi`ers . I`ve just recently rediscovered the joy of listening to music again . Technological advancements made it oh so much better : tiny USB DACs , multi-driver IEMs , DAPs , AMPs etc.. I remember back in the days all tape players would come w a set of earbuds . Then Sony players , then Creative USB MP3 players . They worked , but its hard to speak about quality since i never compared them with anything . IEMs these days offer great isolation and detailed sound . Old school earbuds would distort very easily once given too much volume . With new materials it should be a different story.
> 
> Now ive come across this thread and oh my ... The amount of earbuds is just mind boggling ! I would highly appreciate if some of you would give me recommendations for something thats basshead level . Something thats detailed , yet with a nice low deep rumbling bass , the lower it can go the better . I dont pay too much attention to mids and highs , but if the lows are missing it is of no use .


Is price an object? If so what's your budget. That's essential info for anyone to recommend you a pair!

Paging @ctaxxxx  I think this is your speciality


----------



## chinmie (Mar 31, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> If you are open to a different style, you could try these:  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot...1e3fe8a&transAbTest=ae803_4&priceBeautifyAB=0
> 
> I bought a lot of 100 so am set for a while.



I wouldn't dare using them on my earbuds at home, because my wife would think that i bought them in mini market and tossed them in random drawers.. So i use the leather clips on all of my buds 
People sell those leather clips in my local store for about $0.3, and you can even buy only one




Harry_H said:


> Have bee played around with earbuds this weekend, realized that I'm running out of foams .... Are there any recommendations for thicker foams? Thanks



I love Hiegis, also if there's Daiso Japan shop in your area, they're selling really thick earbud foams (thicker than Hiegis)



bassct said:


> Hello head-fi`ers . I`ve just recently rediscovered the joy of listening to music again . Technological advancements made it oh so much better : tiny USB DACs , multi-driver IEMs , DAPs , AMPs etc.. I remember back in the days all tape players would come w a set of earbuds . Then Sony players , then Creative USB MP3 players . They worked , but its hard to speak about quality since i never compared them with anything . IEMs these days offer great isolation and detailed sound . Old school earbuds would distort very easily once given too much volume . With new materials it should be a different story.
> 
> Now ive come across this thread and oh my ... The amount of earbuds is just mind boggling ! I would highly appreciate if some of you would give me recommendations for something thats basshead level . Something thats detailed , yet with a nice low deep rumbling bass , the lower it can go the better . I dont pay too much attention to mids and highs , but if the lows are missing it is of no use .



The best value that matches your description would be Vido and RY4S. If you want a more sparkly treble along with the rumbly bass, then go with EMX500.

Go a bit bigger on the budget, get the Willsound MK2 for all of the above plus better sound quality


----------



## Saoshyant

I would also like to point out I’ve yet to hear a bass head earbud.  Some can get kind of bassy, but don’t fool yourself.


----------



## euge

bassct said:


> Hello head-fi`ers . I`ve just recently rediscovered the joy of listening to music again . Technological advancements made it oh so much better : tiny USB DACs , multi-driver IEMs , DAPs , AMPs etc.. I remember back in the days all tape players would come w a set of earbuds . Then Sony players , then Creative USB MP3 players . They worked , but its hard to speak about quality since i never compared them with anything . IEMs these days offer great isolation and detailed sound . Old school earbuds would distort very easily once given too much volume . With new materials it should be a different story.
> 
> Now ive come across this thread and oh my ... The amount of earbuds is just mind boggling ! I would highly appreciate if some of you would give me recommendations for something thats basshead level . Something thats detailed , yet with a nice low deep rumbling bass , the lower it can go the better . I dont pay too much attention to mids and highs , but if the lows are missing it is of no use .



K's Black Ling


----------



## bassct

Price somewhere up to 200$ . I was going to pull a trigger on Periodic BEs . But i got Whizzer A15s and playing same songs from the same source sounds just about the same . Ive heard CA Dorado , Dita Truth , Accutone Gemini HD , some other 1k$ iems , Fiio F9 Pro and FH1 , Brainwavz B400 . To me they all play music , while having subtle differences in sound signature . So all i focus on is clarity and low end performance . Biggest factor in music quality is probably : DAC > recording quality > headphones .


----------



## bassct (Mar 31, 2018)

Saoshyant said:


> I would also like to point out I’ve yet to hear a bass head earbud.  Some can get kind of bassy, but don’t fool yourself.


I understand that. I just like low frequencies in my music , i cant stand if they are lacking or rolled off .



euge said:


> K's Black Ling


Pricey , but look very intriguing indeed .

Has anyone tried Toneking TO400s ? They look interesting , mmcx cable provides flexibility *.*
Chinmie - thanks for suggestions .


----------



## euge

bassct said:


> I understand that. I just like low frequencies in my music , i cant stand if they are lacking or rolled off .
> 
> 
> Pricey , but look very intriguing indeed .
> ...



Worth it 

Seahf AWK-F150C
K300 Pro


----------



## ctaxxxx

bassct said:


> I understand that. I just like low frequencies in my music , i cant stand if they are lacking or rolled off .



Well, earbuds will naturally give you less bass clarity and extension due to lack of a seal, especially when it comes to basshead levels, unlike an IEM. They can get pretty close though, but usually at a higher cost. I would go with chinmie's suggestions, since all my recommendations are past the $200 mark. (I also haven't heard the Willsound)

Well... Maybe except Cypherus' Blue Darth. It's not your typical basshead tuning (where the focus is on mid-bass), but it does the low end really well for $100.



Saoshyant said:


> I would also like to point out I’ve yet to hear a bass head earbud.  Some can get kind of bassy, but don’t fool yourself.



I don't know. The ZoomFred is pretty impactful. I almost thought the same. I never did really enjoy hip-hop with buds, until I got those. I honestly felt they were more of an improvement over the Blue Darth, rather than the QFred. I just still prefer the QFred's mids better, as it doesn't sound like it's trying to fight with the powerful bass.


----------



## handwander

Speaking of Cypherus, how does one go about purchasing from them? Info on the site seems lacking, but there is a shopping cart. Is it all done through Facebook instead?


----------



## doggiemom

handwander said:


> Speaking of Cypherus, how does one go about purchasing from them? Info on the site seems lacking, but there is a shopping cart. Is it all done through Facebook instead?


Herry will answer if you PM him through Facebook, but if you are interested in purchasing, he will ask you to email him at cypherusaudio@gmail.com

I’ve ordered directly from him twice.  He asks for a couple of weeks lead time, but in my experience he ships faster than that.

Edited to say:  I have always asked him to send an invoice through PayPal.  Easy for me, but the buyer is asked to pay the 5% PayPal fee.


----------



## thehypewan

Hey fellas,

I just wanted to share my latest achievement:

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones...us_mmcx_conversion/?ref=share&ref_source=link

2ft (Canare L-4E5C) cable. I designed it for this Bluetooth dac/amp in mind (FiiO BTR1) for running but it can plug into any 3.5mm jack.

Transplanted Shozy Cygnus drivers into PK2 shells I ordered from China. I also retrofitted MMCX connectors to make them removable. This way I can put them on longer cables at anytime.













Thanks for viewing!


----------



## chaiyuta

@thehypewan : Nice, the shorter cable make it more convenient when put FiiO BTR1 in to a shirt pocket. If you want to find new friends who play on DIY things. I advise you take a look on this DIY Earbuds thread.


----------



## mochill

bassct said:


> Price somewhere up to 200$ . I was going to pull a trigger on Periodic BEs . But i got Whizzer A15s and playing same songs from the same source sounds just about the same . Ive heard CA Dorado , Dita Truth , Accutone Gemini HD , some other 1k$ iems , Fiio F9 Pro and FH1 , Brainwavz B400 . To me they all play music , while having subtle differences in sound signature . So all i focus on is clarity and low end performance . Biggest factor in music quality is probably : DAC > recording quality > headphones .


Get the berryllium


----------



## thehypewan

chaiyuta said:


> @thehypewan : Nice, the shorter cable make it more convenient when put FiiO BTR1 in to a shirt pocket. If you want to find new friends who play on DIY things. I advise you take a look on this DIY Earbuds thread.



Thanks so much for this reference! They look like a fun bunch to DIY with!


----------



## Raketen

Saoshyant said:


> What is everyone's favorite earbud that's fallen into obscurity?  The past few days I've fallen in love with Edimun again.  Picked up a Shozy Lancea to play with for $52 shipped, and that combo listening to Sufjan Stevens' John Wayne Gacy Jr. is immaculately beautiful.



I haven't had a ton of earbuds but I don't think I fully appreciated the Audio Technica CM707 while I still had it. My primary bud now is Shozy BK and while they are very different types of sound, in comparison the CM707 signature is not as well balanced overall with a wonky spot or two. However, IMO they really excelled at low volume listening, and also had the type of presentation that occasionally caught me off guard thinking a sound was coming from somewhere in the room instead of the headphones.


----------



## Harry_H

Thanks, order placed. (now my liebesleid's will be happy   )



DBaldock9 said:


> I've ordered, and used Hiegi foams, from Penon Audio.  They've got full and donut foams - https://penonaudio.com/hiegi-foam-cushions.html


----------



## stevenswall

vladstef said:


> I've had issues with crossovers, I just keep hearing it in 95% of IEMs that have it. It's not just dips/peaks in frequency response, singular drivers have these as well yet they don't have the 'weird' sound in the critical areas. Some manufacturers mention this and how they've battled it - the problem appears to be a phasing issue because drivers can almost never be equally far away from the bore in the nozzle. This means that no matter how quiet one of the drivers is in the critical area, if you have overlapping of any kind (and you must, you can't physically make a perfect crossover), you risk having one driver cancel out frequencies of another driver, more audible the busier the music is (at least for me).
> Earbuds are mostly a large single dynamic driver meaning no issues.



Jerry Harvey of JH Audio (the guy who founded Ultimate Ears,) has basically fixed the phase issue with multi-driver earphones.

I also recall something about them using a 4th order crossover which is pretty dang steep.


----------



## haiku

Harry_H said:


> Thanks, order placed. (now my liebesleid's will be happy   )


 
They´re the best.


----------



## redkingjoe

mochill said:


> Get the berryllium




Beryllium! Seem really high end!  Is it good?

Which earbuds with beryllium is good? Can it beat black ling? BK?

Thanks!


----------



## seanc6441

bassct said:


> I understand that. I just like low frequencies in my music , i cant stand if they are lacking or rolled off .
> 
> 
> Pricey , but look very intriguing indeed .
> ...


400 ohm, if you have a powerful source it may be an option!


----------



## mbwilson111

mochill said:


> Get the berryllium



I have lost track of which buds are being talked about.  We need to try to be specific in our replies as this is not a thread for just one bud.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> I have lost track of which buds are being talked about.  We need to try to be specific in our replies as this is not a thread for just one bud.


I believe that’s the name of the IEM 

I know, it couldn’t be any more generic.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 1, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> I believe that’s the name of the IEM
> 
> I know, it couldn’t be any more generic.



I must not yet be awake.  I don't know what name was being referenced.  I am in too many threads!

I am unaware of any IEM simply being called beryllium


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> I must not yet be awake.  I don't know what name was being referenced.  I am in too many threads!
> 
> I am unaware of any IEM simply being called berylium



It's the Periodic Audio BE (beryllium)


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> I must not yet be awake.  I don't know what name was being referenced.  I am in too many threads!
> 
> I am unaware of any IEM simply being called berylium


a few pages back when it was mentioned I recall someone saying it was called the <insert company name> beryllium IEM

@chinmie nevermind then


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> It's the Periodic Audio BE (beryllium)



Thanks.  This is why we need to stay specific.  There are others like the Urbanfun beryllium (as opposed to the hybrid one)  It can become confusing very quickly.  Like in the iem thread people refer to the T2 when it could be the tin audio T2 or the einseer T2.

Maybe we don't have quite as much confusion in this bud thread if we only say part of the name.  Although someone might say get the Moondrop...or get the Graphene...

I have just become very aware of how easy it is to lose track of who is talking about what if we don't repeat the name in our reply.


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> a few pages back when it was mentioned I recall someone saying it was called the <insert company name> beryllium IEM
> 
> @chinmie nevermind then



wait... so the Periodic Audio BE (beryllium) is a bud?  

I need to go back to the first post in this thread and look at all the  photos.


----------



## mochill (Apr 1, 2018)

redkingjoe said:


> Beryllium! Seem really high end!  Is it good?
> 
> Which earbuds with beryllium is good? Can it beat black ling? BK?
> 
> Thanks!


The best I have , it is and I'm from periodic audio , without considering the price. Best berryllium bud was the puresounds ps600 , get the 600,core cable version


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> wait... so the Periodic Audio BE (beryllium) is a bud?
> 
> I need to go back to the first post in this thread and look at all the  photos.


Same, I thought it was an IEM. Time to check.

Edit: It’s an IEM.


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> Same, I thought it was an IEM. Time to check.
> 
> Edit: It’s an IEM.



yes an expensive one:  

https://www.amazon.com/Periodic-Audio-Be-Beryllium/dp/B073TVZRV4


----------



## mochill

mbwilson111 said:


> yes an expensive one:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Periodic-Audio-Be-Beryllium/dp/B073TVZRV4


I have some more expensive iem and had some more too but these are totally totlB-)


----------



## mochill




----------



## chaiyuta

Pardon me, Do you mean my Puresounds PS100-600S 600-core copper cable 2.5 mm plug is made of 'berryllium' coating diaphragm??? To be truth I never know what's is it made. I looked, think, make a decision, and buy by myself. lol


----------



## mochill

chaiyuta said:


> Pardon me, Do you mean my Puresounds PS100-600S 600-core copper cable 2.5 mm plug is made of 'berryllium' coating diaphragm??? To be truth I never know what's is it made. I looked, think, make a decision, and buy by myself. lol


Yes buy it


----------



## chaiyuta

Thanks.. but NO!! I already own it. haha


----------



## ChasingDopamine

Does anyone know how the campfred 2 or BK shozy would compare in sound quality with different IEMs? Would the sound be comparable to $50, 100$, 200$ IEMs? Or would it not compete at all?


----------



## mbwilson111

ChasingDopamine said:


> Does anyone know how the campfred 2 or BK shozy would compare in sound quality with different IEMs? Would the sound be comparable to $50, 100$, 200$ IEMs? Or would it not compete at all?



Personally I do not find that price determines or is necessarily indicative of the sound quality of  iems, buds or headphones.  Certainly not in a linear sense.


----------



## ChasingDopamine

mbwilson111 said:


> Personally I do not find that price determines or is necessarily indicative of the sound quality of  iems, buds or headphones.  Certainly not in a linear sense.


Yes that's certainly true, however my question was more along the lines of can the best earbuds compete at all against better than average consumer earbuds?


----------



## silverfishla

ChasingDopamine said:


> Yes that's certainly true, however my question was more along the lines of can the best earbuds compete at all against better than average consumer earbuds?


I would say that the higher end earbuds are priced accordingly when compared to iems.  I would say that I enjoy my Rose Mojito earbuds as much as I do my Ibasso IT03 which are comparable in price.  Each has it's own strengths and weaknesses (although, for me, not many).  There are some earbuds though, that sound much better than their price might suggest (ie: MX500 diy, Graphene bud, Moondrop Nameless, Toneking TP16 and on.) Many people, myself included, get a kick out of ordering various earbuds to try out their soundsignature.  It's fun and relatively inexpensive....well until you start adding them all up!  Most of the earbuds out there (that most of us recommend) are not disappointing.


----------



## Danneq

ChasingDopamine said:


> Yes that's certainly true, however my question was more along the lines of can the best earbuds compete at all against better than average consumer earbuds?



I haven't heard any good IEMs (cannot stand the form factor), but I have to say that my CampFred 2 blow away my ATH ES10 headphones. The only area where ES10 wins is bass quantity (well, and also isolation), Shozy BK is also more refined than the former portable heardphone flagship from Audio Technica. Still I keep my ES10 for the times when I want a bit more isolation, My recent TOTL earbud purchases led me to sell my Sennheiser HD25 about 1 year ago and to focus mainly on earbuds.


----------



## ChasingDopamine

Danneq said:


> I haven't heard any good IEMs (cannot stand the form factor), but I have to say that my CampFred 2 blow away my ATH ES10 headphones. The only area where ES10 wins is bass quantity (well, and also isolation), Shozy BK is also more refined than the former portable heardphone flagship from Audio Technica. Still I keep my ES10 for the times when I want a bit more isolation, My recent TOTL earbud purchases led me to sell my Sennheiser HD25 about 1 year ago and to focus mainly on earbuds.



Would you  say the Campfred 2 was better than the hd25?


----------



## boblauer

IMO ear buds and IEM's have different use cases. Isolation, noisy environment IEM, quiet more portable buds. I use both for different things. I personally get a better fit with IEM's but always have an earbud on hand.


----------



## rayliam80

boblauer said:


> IMO ear buds and IEM's have different use cases. Isolation, noisy environment IEM, quiet more portable buds. I use both for different things. I personally get a better fit with IEM's but always have an earbud on hand.



I agree. I've been using IEMs for years now and have stepped away from traditional earbuds for several years but there are times when I need something more open sounding like when I'm waiting for a flight to board. Recently I almost missed a flight while sitting at the gate listening to one of my IEMs and lost track of time (plus being sleep deprived). My plan is to use earbuds at the gate and then use IEMs when I'm boarded. Just one situation where having some earbuds might help me. I have two on order now from NiceHCK, Moonless Namedrop and the Seahf AWK-150C. And a quick question: will standard foams fit on the Namedrop? They appear to be slightly bigger in diameter but I could be wrong.


----------



## HungryPanda

Moonless Namedrop uses regular foams


----------



## vladstef

rayliam80 said:


> I agree. I've been using IEMs for years now and have stepped away from traditional earbuds for several years but there are times when I need something more open sounding like when I'm waiting for a flight to board. Recently I almost missed a flight while sitting at the gate listening to one of my IEMs and lost track of time (plus being sleep deprived). My plan is to use earbuds at the gate and then use IEMs when I'm boarded. Just one situation where having some earbuds might help me. I have two on order now from NiceHCK, Moonless Namedrop and the Seahf AWK-150C. And a quick question: will standard foams fit on the Namedrop? They appear to be slightly bigger in diameter but I could be wrong.



Standard foams are made for 13-16mm drivers which covers pretty much all earbuds. Regular earbuds use 15.4mm driver (150C for example) and Nameless has one of the smallest earbud drivers coming at 13.5mm so it's in fact smaller than it looks.


----------



## ChasingDopamine

Does anyone know how the Campfred2 compares to the Qfred?


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Finally got the NiceHCK EBX.....first impressions was mitiged because of 2 issues, one with the cable connection (right) and other with the FIT!
I wonder why I did not find any comments about fit because this is a MUST SAID really....it will be a big drawback for some people, it's the first time I struggle that hard to find a way to keep an earbuds in my ears, and I don't like using silicone hook, wich work well but create perssion inside ears.
Anyway, if anybody wonder how to make the EBX more comfy, use TWO donuts foams tips and it will work okay and stay in place, now I can really enjoy the real sound of this earbuds, its all about soundstage widness and deepness, with great airy mids and highs sparkle....bass is well controled but not beefy.
I don,t know if its me but I feel they shine way more with balanced cable, even cheap fiio 15$ one.
The EBX really like classical music, jazz a little less because of bass ligth presentation. The brilliance with classical guitar, harpsichord or harp is marvelous really, I don't suggest them for big symphony tough, for chamber music they are very very precious earbuds. Piano have great impact and decay too, I think I will stick with this music genre as well as signers and choral.
Cable is extremely sexy and impressive, but perhaps I was unlucky with mine, even if strangely when I use it with other iem it do not make connection problem...strange strange.
As well, even if sensitivity is crazy high (120db) and impendance quite low (32ohm) they aren't that easy to drive with stock fancy cable....not fishi to try them and I wonder if burn in will open bass a little too, just make 5-6H I listen to them cause of fit issue.

It's my first try of a TOTL chifi earbud, and in all honnesty, sound value upgrade is quite costy, but just the cable worth half of 140$ price IMO so I take that in account.
EBX are far from bad, but my attempt was very high, i'm neither disapointed or overly impress, just somehow confuse about how to find perfection at a competitive price....not sure I prefer them to the Mrz Tomahawk.


----------



## Danneq

ChasingDopamine said:


> Would you  say the Campfred 2 was better than the hd25?



Better overall detail and more spacious. Also better bass texture. HGD25 is more agressive and forward. I have still to hear an earbud that has the same sound signature as HD25. Headphones do sound more full overall, probably because of the larger drivers, but the current crop of earbuds are pretty amazing. I've been around here since around 2008-2009 and have been into earbuds for as long and budget earbuds nowadays punch way above their price level. Budget earbuds used to sound budget, but something like the $3 Vido can sound good and engaging with great detail, bass and soundstage/instrument layering. TOTL earbuds is a big step up but budget earbuds nowadays can be great bang for the buck.


----------



## ctaxxxx

ChasingDopamine said:


> Does anyone know how the Campfred2 compares to the Qfred?



Different signatures. QFred is more of a mid focused earbud. It's also one of the earlier Cypherus buds, so it doesn't resolve as well as the newer stuff (it's still a step ahead the budget buds of course). It doesn't have the bass extension the CampFred's, but it's mids are still my favorite. Makes me think of the HD650, which are nice and smooth, but doesn't quite compare to the LCD2.


----------



## bassct

Thanks all for your input . Gives me an idea what to look at . Many interesting options among earbuds . Affordable options at that .


----------



## seanc6441

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Finally got the NiceHCK EBX.....first impressions was mitiged because of 2 issues, one with the cable connection (right) and other with the FIT!
> I wonder why I did not find any comments about fit because this is a MUST SAID really....it will be a big drawback for some people, it's the first time I struggle that hard to find a way to keep an earbuds in my ears, and I don't like using silicone hook, wich work well but create perssion inside ears.
> Anyway, if anybody wonder how to make the EBX more comfy, use TWO donuts foams tips and it will work okay and stay in place, now I can really enjoy the real sound of this earbuds, its all about soundstage widness and deepness, with great airy mids and highs sparkle....bass is well controled but not beefy.
> I don,t know if its me but I feel they shine way more with balanced cable, even cheap fiio 15$ one.
> ...


A diagram from nicehck

 


Did you try them over ear? May help immensely with fit in this case.


----------



## HungryPanda

I only wear the NiceHCK EBX over ear as I do with most metal earbuds


----------



## groucho69 (Apr 1, 2018)

delete


----------



## groucho69

ChasingDopamine said:


> Does anyone know how the Campfred2 compares to the Qfred?



2X more freddyish?


----------



## rkw

mbwilson111 said:


> yes an expensive one:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Periodic-Audio-Be-Beryllium/dp/B073TVZRV4


$300 would be expensive for an earbud, but that is mid-range for audiophile IEM.


----------



## Carrow

I'm kinda getting 'into' the earbuds scene, I have to admit. Have a pair of Rose Masya on the way and a pair of Venture Electronics Monk Plus (coffee colour I think) - any other recommendations for me, preferably those that offer a good price-to-performance ratio?


----------



## mbwilson111

Carrow said:


> I'm kinda getting 'into' the earbuds scene, I have to admit. Have a pair of Rose Masya on the way and a pair of Venture Electronics Monk Plus (coffee colour I think) - any other recommendations for me, preferably those that offer a good price-to-performance ratio?



See what you think of those first.  I know from experience it is overwhelming to get too many at once.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 1, 2018)

Carrow said:


> I'm kinda getting 'into' the earbuds scene, I have to admit. Have a pair of Rose Masya on the way and a pair of Venture Electronics Monk Plus (coffee colour I think) - any other recommendations for me, preferably those that offer a good price-to-performance ratio?



Very different sound signatures there, try those first agreed 

You’ll be able to discern very quickly if you prefer dark or brighter signatures with those buds, I suspect you’ll be looking for something inbetween but that’s where foam swaps come in. Masya can be tweaked quite drastically from my discovery over months of testing and 2 Masya’s ^^


----------



## AmericanEDC

mbwilson111 said:


> See what you think of those first.  I know from experience it is overwhelming to get too many at once.



I agree with this....completely.

Got 5 pair delivered at the same time and I'm trying to spend a day at a time with each. That said I'm enjoying "FENGRU DIY EMX500S In-ear Earphones Flat Head Plug DIY Earphone HiFi Bass Earbuds DJ Earbuds Heavy Bass Sound Quality" over my Monk +. 

But much of this is personal preference.....


----------



## chinmie

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Finally got the NiceHCK EBX.....first impressions was mitiged because of 2 issues, one with the cable connection (right) and other with the FIT!
> I wonder why I did not find any comments about fit because this is a MUST SAID really....it will be a big drawback for some people, it's the first time I struggle that hard to find a way to keep an earbuds in my ears, and I don't like using silicone hook, wich work well but create perssion inside ears.
> Anyway, if anybody wonder how to make the EBX more comfy, use TWO donuts foams tips and it will work okay and stay in place, now I can really enjoy the real sound of this earbuds, its all about soundstage widness and deepness, with great airy mids and highs sparkle....bass is well controled but not beefy.
> I don,t know if its me but I feel they shine way more with balanced cable, even cheap fiio 15$ one.
> ...



if you don't mind me asking? what is your preferred sound? my friend has the EBX and his review essentially the EBX is a great SQ but jack of all trades kind of sound. meaning compared to the other pricier buds, it doesn't have a certain specialty, but would be perfect for general listening with various genre.

also, if compared to your collection (iems included) which one is similar to the EBX?


----------



## chinmie

Carrow said:


> I'm kinda getting 'into' the earbuds scene, I have to admit. Have a pair of Rose Masya on the way and a pair of Venture Electronics Monk Plus (coffee colour I think) - any other recommendations for me, preferably those that offer a good price-to-performance ratio?



if you do get your masya and monk, and turns out you like the monk sound, try look up to the VE Zen 2 or Zen lite..similar sound but with greater presentation.


----------



## waynes world

Carrow said:


> I'm kinda getting 'into' the earbuds scene, I have to admit. Have a pair of Rose Masya on the way and a pair of Venture Electronics Monk Plus (coffee colour I think) - any other recommendations for me, preferably those that offer a good price-to-performance ratio?





chinmie said:


> if you do get your masya and monk, and turns out you like the monk sound, try look up to the VE Zen 2 or Zen lite..similar sound but with greater presentation.



RIght. Also the Monk Lite 120's (for $9, what can go wrong?).

And I wouldn't be me if I didn't suggest the $29 old graphene (which can be had for less if you ask nicely), which is still my most listened to bud (but that's just me!).


----------



## doggiemom

boblauer said:


> IMO ear buds and IEM's have different use cases. Isolation, noisy environment IEM, quiet more portable buds. I use both for different things. I personally get a better fit with IEM's but always have an earbud on hand.


Although it is probably sacrilege to say so on this thread,  when I have an opportunity to relax at home and really focus on the music, I use full size cans 70% of the time and IEMs 30% of the time.  Even the TOTL earbuds I've heard aren't in the same ballpark as TOTL full sized cans or multiple driver IEMs in terms of soundstage, dynamic range, and separation/detail.  That being said, my most expensive earbud is 10% of the price of my favorite cans (Utopias, which I did not pay list price for!) and 30% of the price of my current favorite IEMs (Massdrop version of the Noble Kaiser 10), so earbuds, especially the good budget ones, represent a heck of a value.

Probably 75% of the time I listen to music is with earbuds though, because I listen to them at work and at home when not sitting on the couch stationary.    For those situations in which I need to be able to hear people and what is going on around me, earbuds are perfect.  (I drive in Manhattan a lot for work, and I think the people who wear full size closed back cans while walking around are nuts - they are gonna get hit by a car, esp when their eyes are looking at their phones and their ears are sealed off, but I digress......)  Earbuds also don't require lugging around a bunch of stuff (amp or DAC/amp and cables).  The good earbuds allow a very enjoyable and high quality listening experience while still being a part of the world.  The budget ones are great too because I don't worry about them getting broken or stolen.


----------



## chinmie

doggiemom said:


> Although it is probably sacrilege to say so on this thread,  when I have an opportunity to relax at home and really focus on the music, I use full size cans 70% of the time and IEMs 30% of the time.  Even the TOTL earbuds I've heard aren't in the same ballpark as TOTL full sized cans or multiple driver IEMs in terms of soundstage, dynamic range, and separation/detail.  That being said, my most expensive earbud is 10% of the price of my favorite cans (Utopias, which I did not pay list price for!) and 30% of the price of my current favorite IEMs (Massdrop version of the Noble Kaiser 10), so earbuds, especially the good budget ones, represent a heck of a value.
> 
> Probably 75% of the time I listen to music is with earbuds though, because I listen to them at work and at home when not sitting on the couch stationary.    For those situations in which I need to be able to hear people and what is going on around me, earbuds are perfect.  (I drive in Manhattan a lot for work, and I think the people who wear full size closed back cans while walking around are nuts - they are gonna get hit by a car, esp when their eyes are looking at their phones and their ears are sealed off, but I digress......)  Earbuds also don't require lugging around a bunch of stuff (amp or DAC/amp and cables).  The good earbuds allow a very enjoyable and high quality listening experience while still being a part of the world.  The budget ones are great too because I don't worry about them getting broken or stolen.



not sacrilege at all. even though the big part of my collections are earbuds, but in truth i like details and clarity, so i prefer IEMs than earbuds if i want to really listen to the music, but i can only use IEMs when i go outside riding motorcycle (primarily as earplugs, music a distant secondary) and go to the mall or use public transportation  (also primarily to block outside noise). with earbuds i have to use excessive volume to drown the noise.. not healthy at all. i have a rather sensitive hearing that would hurt when i hear loud noises. 

at home, especially when everyone is still awake, i only use earbuds, because my family would hate me if i don't respond to calls and conversations. when i can afford not be bothered by anyone, i use IEMs, or full speakers. 

headphones.. i only use them in recording environment because the cable is is thick and won't snap off if i accidentally snag them on guitars and such. headphones makes my ears hot. i prefer not to use them if possible.

to me earbuds are substitutes for home/desktop speakers.. but attached to your ears, and your music not bothering anyone else


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> RIght. Also the Monk Lite 120's (for $9, what can go wrong?).
> 
> And I wouldn't be me if I didn't suggest the $29 old graphene (which can be had for less if you ask nicely), which is still my most listened to bud (but that's just me!).



how's the monk lite 120 compared to the monk plus?


----------



## doggiemom

chinmie said:


> at home, especially when everyone is still awake, i only use earbuds, because my family would hate me if i don't respond to calls and conversations.


Earbuds:  saving marriages internationally.


----------



## nick n

And I wouldn't be me if I didn't suggest the [URL='https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2017-New-NICEHCK-DIY-Graphene-Earbud-In-Ear-Earphone-Earplug-Headset-High-End-Rare-Earth-Graphene/32821104494.html' said:
			
		

> $29 old graphene[/URL] (which can be had for less if you ask nicely), *which is still my most listened to bud* (but that's just me!).



for now my friend, for now....
secret shipment is inbound...


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

HungryPanda said:


> I only wear the NiceHCK EBX over ear as I do with most metal earbuds


Yep, this is the way I find too, plus double foam so it keep in place, but its still a little prompt to fall....I have kinda big loose ears too, but did not have this fitting ''problem'' with Tomahawk that are my second biggest buds.



chinmie said:


> if you don't mind me asking? what is your preferred sound? my friend has the EBX and his review essentially the EBX is a great SQ but jack of all trades kind of sound. meaning compared to the other pricier buds, it doesn't have a certain specialty, but would be perfect for general listening with various genre.
> 
> also, if compared to your collection (iems included) which one is similar to the EBX?


To be honnest I will need more listening, perhaps burn in will change the sound a little, the 2 earbuds I listen the must is Tomahawk and EMX500 and they sound very different, Tom being brighter and 500 being bassier...what impress me with EMX is articulation of sound, and how realist it can sound without being bright, hum....damn ,I think I will write to HCK...as I listen right now to it, sound can cut up if I touch right earbuds and I don't use fancy stock cable so its the buds connection. I think I will make some investigation before talking more about EBX. Some mysteries need to be solve ASAP.


----------



## HeadlessChicken

chinmie said:


> how's the monk lite 120 compared to the monk plus?


Well, I have both and I prefer the lites to the plus. Other than the more comfortable fit, the lites have more details that the plus smudges over, especially with certain genres of music that get busy. BUT the plus has that enjoyable bass bump that works well with other genres where you need that fullness, and where the music is not so busy.
tl;dr the monks are more musical, the lites are more detailed. ofc neither of them can compete with TOTL buds


----------



## waynes world

nick n said:


> for now my friend, for now....
> secret shipment is inbound...



Ok, color me intrigued!


----------



## ctaxxxx

doggiemom said:


> Although it is probably sacrilege to say so on this thread,  when I have an opportunity to relax at home and really focus on the music, I use full size cans 70% of the time and IEMs 30% of the time.  Even the TOTL earbuds I've heard aren't in the same ballpark as TOTL full sized cans or multiple driver IEMs in terms of soundstage, dynamic range, and separation/detail.  That being said, my most expensive earbud is 10% of the price of my favorite cans (Utopias, which I did not pay list price for!) and 30% of the price of my current favorite IEMs (Massdrop version of the Noble Kaiser 10), so earbuds, especially the good budget ones, represent a heck of a value.
> 
> Probably 75% of the time I listen to music is with earbuds though, because I listen to them at work and at home when not sitting on the couch stationary.    For those situations in which I need to be able to hear people and what is going on around me, earbuds are perfect.  (I drive in Manhattan a lot for work, and I think the people who wear full size closed back cans while walking around are nuts - they are gonna get hit by a car, esp when their eyes are looking at their phones and their ears are sealed off, but I digress......)  Earbuds also don't require lugging around a bunch of stuff (amp or DAC/amp and cables).  The good earbuds allow a very enjoyable and high quality listening experience while still being a part of the world.  The budget ones are great too because I don't worry about them getting broken or stolen.



You have the Utopia, so that's audiophile end-game open backs right there lol. I'm the same, but with my Sony MDR-Z1R. I praise earbuds a lot here, but I never really use them at home either, just work. They don't compare for gaming, movies, and television. I don't expect them to though, with what I consider end-game closed backs.

Since there seems to be a lot of new people suddenly, figure I'd emphasize that having a good source makes a pretty noticeable difference for quality buds. They scale pretty well from my experience. I went from using the FiiO X3, then X5, to Onkyo DP-X1, to the iBasso DX200 (plus their AMP4 module - total of $1K right there). I had the Diomnes Lvl2 since the X5 III I believe, and they got better each time, especially with what I have currently. Not saying to drop hundreds on a dap, but good buds will only benefit from doing so. This includes at-home desktop set-ups.


----------



## chaiyuta

HungryPanda said:


> Moonless Namedrop uses regular foams



Hi, HungryPanda.. If I remember correct, its name is "Moondrop Nameless".


----------



## silverfishla

chaiyuta said:


> Hi, HungryPanda.. If I remember correct, its name is "Moondrop Nameless".


I’d much rather have Moonless Namedrop from HungryPanda than the reverse..I certainly don’t want to see HungryPanda’s ass next time he talks about Leonardo DiCaprio.


----------



## Raketen (Apr 2, 2018)

Reminds me of a nice short story in which people harvest moondrops  https://genius.com/Italo-calvino-the-distance-of-the-moon-annotated


----------



## redkingjoe

mbwilson111 said:


> I have lost track of which buds are being talked about.  We need to try to be specific in our replies as this is not a thread for just one bud.


Well said! 

The more specific, the more useful and helpful!


----------



## rkw

HungryPanda said:


> Moonless Namedrop uses regular foams





chaiyuta said:


> If I remember correct, its name is "Moondrop Nameless".


Wait, I thought it was Dropmoon Lessname. Or was it Moonname Dropless?


----------



## Narayan23

rkw said:


> Wait, I thought it was Dropmoon Lessname. Or was it Moonname Dropless?



Stop mucking about rkw you know very well  It´s Moonprod Lameness.


----------



## Narayan23

AmericanEDC said:


> I agree with this....completely.
> 
> Got 5 pair delivered at the same time and I'm trying to spend a day at a time with each. That said I'm enjoying *"FENGRU DIY EMX500S In-ear Earphones Flat Head Plug DIY Earphone HiFi Bass Earbuds DJ Earbuds Heavy Bass Sound Quality"* over my Monk +.
> 
> But much of this is personal preference.....



Mbwilson wanted more specificity and I think you nailed it there, am I the only one seing the Law of Attraction at work here?


----------



## groucho69

chaiyuta said:


> Hi, HungryPanda.. If I remember correct, its name is "Moondrop Nameless".


----------



## thehypewan

Carrow said:


> I'm kinda getting 'into' the earbuds scene, I have to admit. Have a pair of Rose Masya on the way and a pair of Venture Electronics Monk Plus (coffee colour I think) - any other recommendations for me, preferably those that offer a good price-to-performance ratio?



I use a the Rose Mojito on a daily basis and from what I've read on reviews that the Rose Masaya is a heavy hitter for it's price.  I think you'll like that one a lot.  Just be sure to try all the combinations of ear-hooks/foams/inserts to get the sound you want.  At first I criticized the Mojitos for having bad sibilance and harsh treble.  After slapping on the rubber "gasket", solid foam, and a donut foam on top....perfect!  YMMV.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Thoughts on the Lyra Classic. Definitely the best value in the lineup. Cable needs a re-work though.

The Contraptionist / Head-fi

  ​


----------



## waynes world

B9Scrambler said:


> Thoughts on the Lyra Classic. Definitely the best value in the lineup. Cable needs a re-work though.
> 
> The Contraptionist / Head-fi
> 
> ​



Good review - thanks!

From your review:


> *Personal Preferences:*
> 
> I listen primarily to various EDM sub-genres (liquid drum and bass, breakbeat, drumstep, etc.), hip hop, and classic rock. While I enjoy a variety of signatures in my headphones I generally lean towards slightly warm with elevated treble and sub-bass, an even and natural mid-range response, with reduced mid-bass. The HiFiMan RE800, Brainwavz B400, and thinksound On2 offer unique examples of signatures I enjoy.



Which are your favorite earbuds?


----------



## B9Scrambler

waynes world said:


> Good review - thanks!
> 
> From your review:
> 
> Which are your favorite earbuds?



You are welcome, and thank you 

Fav bud? Tough question. Rose Mojito probably.


----------



## ClieOS

B9Scrambler said:


> Thoughts on the Lyra Classic. Definitely the best value in the lineup. Cable needs a re-work though.



Agree on the cable. Should have been softer but it is a common problem for the Lyra lineup and not just the newer models. Unfortunately I don't share as high an opinion on its SQ, and really thought Astrotec could do better.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ClieOS said:


> Agree on the cable. Should have been softer but it is a common problem for the Lyra lineup and not just the newer models. *Unfortunately I don't share as high an opinion on its SQ, and really thought Astrotec could do better.*



Fair enough. I think I'm somewhat partial to Astrotec's signature as it reminds me of JVC's CNT micro drivers, sans the bass. And you have a heck of a lot more exp. with buds than I do  At least the Classics are priced more realistically than the Collection models which really don't offer much more than a (significant) cable upgrade.


----------



## Carrow

thehypewan said:


> I use a the Rose Mojito on a daily basis and from what I've read on reviews that the Rose Masaya is a heavy hitter for it's price.  I think you'll like that one a lot.  Just be sure to try all the combinations of ear-hooks/foams/inserts to get the sound you want.  At first I criticized the Mojitos for having bad sibilance and harsh treble.  After slapping on the rubber "gasket", solid foam, and a donut foam on top....perfect!  YMMV.



I thought that the rubber ear-hook things were for stabilisation, but that makes sense because sound depends on fit and stabilisation to come across properly. When my Masyas arrive I'll be sure to experiment, thanks


----------



## winterflood

Are there any dark soundsig bud which closer to shure 215 sounding under 30$? How about vido are they classified as dark buds? In my collections vido is very good at bass sounding with smoothy mid and high and emx500 close to vido with better high present, anybody have tried willsound mk1 or abnormal duotres? Which one is upgrade from vido which are close soundsig to shure 215 if possible.
Thanks in advance


----------



## audio123 (Apr 3, 2018)

HiFi Boy Dream Review now on Head-Fi! Thanks in advance for taking the time to read. 

The sound is balanced and commands a high level of details retrievals. The bass performance lacks punch. In addition, the cable is braided nicely. Pairing with warmer sounding DAPs like Cayin N5 or Oriolus DP100 will complement the Dream.

Head-Fi: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/hifi-boy-dream.22866/reviews#review-20136
Website: https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/03/30/hifi-boy-dream


----------



## golov17

winterflood said:


> Are there any dark soundsig bud which closer to shure 215 sounding under 30$? How about vido are they classified as dark buds? In my collections vido is very good at bass sounding with smoothy mid and high and emx500 close to vido with better high present, anybody have tried willsound mk1 or abnormal duotres? Which one is upgrade from vido which are close soundsig to shure 215 if possible.
> Thanks in advance


Willsound mk1


----------



## capnjack (Apr 3, 2018)

Just had a couple of pairs of buds turn up that seem to be great value!

1- Yincrow x6 - AliExpress- $6 ‘ish excellent value and sounds, seems to lack a little sub-bass but otherwise excellent.

2- Willsound mk.1 rev2 - Rholupat- $40 ‘ish this one has everything from nice sub-bass rumble up! Wow!!

Using VE donut foams with both.

Edit: the Willsound might’ve de-throned my favourite buds (Zen 2) but the jury is still out on that. But it’s gonna be a close run thing!


----------



## kurtextrem

When I press the BS1 more into my ear, the sound becomes noticeably better 
but it just won't stay there if I push it there, because it's too big... sad me


----------



## capnjack (Apr 3, 2018)

kurtextrem said:


> When I press the BS1 more into my ear, the sound becomes noticeably better
> but it just won't stay there if I push it there, because it's too big... sad me



VE x pack might help, the silicon ‘shark fins’ could be a solution.


----------



## audio123

kurtextrem said:


> When I press the BS1 more into my ear, the sound becomes noticeably better
> but it just won't stay there if I push it there, because it's too big... sad me


Have you tried it with foams?


----------



## liquidrats

kurtextrem said:


> When I press the BS1 more into my ear, the sound becomes noticeably better
> but it just won't stay there if I push it there, because it's too big... sad me


I use a "fin" I bought through aliexpress that has helped me with this, I took out the foam and just the fin helps alot.


----------



## chinmie

winterflood said:


> Are there any dark soundsig bud which closer to shure 215 sounding under 30$? How about vido are they classified as dark buds? In my collections vido is very good at bass sounding with smoothy mid and high and emx500 close to vido with better high present, anybody have tried willsound mk1 or abnormal duotres? Which one is upgrade from vido which are close soundsig to shure 215 if possible.
> Thanks in advance



haven't heard the Shure 215,but this i consider dark sounding:
Edifier H180, Sharp MD, VE Monk plus, Willsound MK1 and 300 ohm


----------



## chinmie

My balanced mmcx has arrived, and i tested some of my IEMs and earbuds with the ES100.
the **** PT15 and Svara-L really have noticable improvement. The soundstage seems wider because separation of instruments are more clear, and bass also more focused and bigger sounding


----------



## winterflood

golov17 said:


> Willsound mk1


Thanks mr.golov



chinmie said:


> haven't heard the Shure 215,but this i consider dark sounding:
> Edifier H180, Sharp MD, VE Monk plus, Willsound MK1 and 300 ohm


thanks chinmie, do you ever tried duotres? I might get willsound mk1 but i still lack of my budget and need to saving money again, perhaps if duotres suit my preference i will get it with hiegi full foam, but need comparison both of them, if only i could audition both of them


----------



## chinmie

winterflood said:


> Thanks mr.golov
> 
> thanks chinmie, do you ever tried duotres? I might get willsound mk1 but i still lack of my budget and need to saving money again, perhaps if duotres suit my preference i will get it with hiegi full foam, but need comparison both of them, if only i could audition both of them



no, i haven't had a chance to try duotres. I've just noticed you also live in Indonesia, you might try the stock Sharp MD, or the recabled version from Fuad (many others do recables MD, but i got mine from him). you'll get much sturdier cable, and better sounding (more clarity and less veil on the sound) MD


----------



## winterflood

Do standard sharp md have big jump different with recabled one? I want to try standard before going to recable, how it to compare with vido?


----------



## dheepak10

winterflood said:


> Are there any dark soundsig bud which closer to shure 215 sounding under 30$? How about vido are they classified as dark buds? In my collections vido is very good at bass sounding with smoothy mid and high and emx500 close to vido with better high present, anybody have tried willsound mk1 or abnormal duotres? Which one is upgrade from vido which are close soundsig to shure 215 if possible.
> Thanks in advance



Edifier H180 is a must try - I find it better than the EMX500 - faster driver, better highs and instrument separation. Sub-bass quantity is lacking, but the awesome mid-bass makes them sound more like cans than earbuds - definitely not dark though.


----------



## kurtextrem

capnjack said:


> VE x pack might help, the silicon ‘shark fins’ could be a solution.



Thank you, however I have no clue how to use those.


audio123 said:


> Have you tried it with foams?


Yes. They stay in my ear and don't fall out, but I can't push them "deep" into the ear if you know what I mean.


----------



## winterflood

dheepak10 said:


> Edifier H180 is a must try - I find it better than the EMX500 - faster driver, better highs and instrument separation. Sub-bass quantity is lacking, but the awesome mid-bass makes them sound more like cans than earbuds - definitely not dark though.


Hi dheepak10 thanks for answer, i already tried h180 once, it has been long time ago, it's good but i think it still lack in bass section for me, maybe because im direct it with my benjie s5, but now im using x5 1st i will try again sometime


----------



## audio123

kurtextrem said:


> Thank you, however I have no clue how to use those.
> 
> Yes. They stay in my ear and don't fall out, but I can't push them "deep" into the ear if you know what I mean.


Yea I know. Perhaps you can try ear fins to keep it in.


----------



## audio123

Just saw this on Penon website, https://penonaudio.com/simphonio-dragon-2plus.html


----------



## seanc6441

kurtextrem said:


> Thank you, however I have no clue how to use those.
> 
> Yes. They stay in my ear and don't fall out, but I can't push them "deep" into the ear if you know what I mean.


Try heigi thick foam + 3 holes in middle. Made the sound more full and the thick heigi seals better. Sounds more like a closed back headphone than any of my other buds now, but I’m not complaining too much as the sound is fuller and more consistent.


----------



## chinmie

winterflood said:


> Do standard sharp md have big jump different with recabled one? I want to try standard before going to recable, how it to compare with vido?



Quite a jump. the stock is no slouch either though, just warmer, while the recabled one ks clearer sounding. try the stock one first. vido and sharp md has different sound signature


----------



## ballog (Apr 3, 2018)

Wow what are these manufacturers smoking! What an an insane price for a bud with generic shell!
Guess we are seeing the result of the surge in popularity of earbuds and the (over)hype of TOTL ones.


----------



## ClieOS

ballog said:


> Wow what are these manufacturers smoking! What an an insane price for a bud with generic shell!
> Guess we are seeing the result of the surge in popularity of earbuds and the (over)hype of TOTL ones.



Fixed the picture for you.

I already post my impression of it a couple of pages ago, check it out. It might look pretty ordinary, it does however sound pretty extraordinary.


----------



## capnjack

This should help 

 



kurtextrem said:


> Thank you, however I have no clue how to use those.
> 
> Yes. They stay in my ear and don't fall out, but I can't push them "deep" into the ear if you know what I mean.


----------



## mochill

Also excited 2 on penon audio


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> My balanced mmcx has arrived, and i tested some of my IEMs and earbuds with the ES100.
> the **** PT15 and Svara-L really have noticable improvement. The soundstage seems wider because separation of instruments are more clear, and bass also more focused and bigger sounding. *waynes world, you need this cable!*



Fixed that for you! Please provide a link if possible. Thanks!​


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 3, 2018)

@chinmie nice! I cannot wait to try the balanced cable I got for the TO400s.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32859444405/32859444405.html



The Hiby R6 has a pretty powerful balanced setup so it should drive the 400 ohm TO400s nicely.

Very excited to hear this dap and setup


----------



## Carrow

What the heck, my VE Monk Plus are here already, I only ordered them last week!


----------



## stocamadas

ClieOS said:


> Cygnus Limited, came after BK and before BK Blue. This is rarer than the BK blue, so I guess most don't remember or know about it.



What is its sound sig ? Please compare with the original BK. Thanks.


----------



## seanc6441

Carrow said:


> What the heck, my VE Monk Plus are here already, I only ordered them last week!


Some sellers are prompt ^^


stocamadas said:


> What is its sound sig ? Please compare with the original BK. Thanks.


He already did, try the search function for ‘bk’ and posts by ClieOS.


----------



## Carrow

seanc6441 said:


> Some sellers are prompt ^^



Ordered direct from VE, that's China to Ireland in like 10 days. They have their crap together. Have the black donut foams on as the full foams don't even want to attempt to go on the things, much less stay on. JFC, I do not have the motor skills for applying those hahahah


----------



## DBaldock9

chinmie said:


> My balanced mmcx has arrived, and i tested some of my IEMs and earbuds with the ES100.
> the **** PT15 and Svara-L really have noticable improvement. The soundstage seems wider because separation of instruments are more clear, and bass also more focused and bigger sounding



I've been using a VE Espresso 2.5mm TRRS > MMCX cable (I have replaced the MMCX connectors), for my various earbuds and earphones, while connected to my ES100.
The standard length (1.2m) cable is fine for when I'm using the ES100 as a USB DAC, but I'm probably going to assemble some shorter cables (MMCX & 2-pin) - for when I'm using the ES100 as a BT Receiver.
The PT15 (~$9), VE Espresso (~$13), and ES100 ($99) - make a great sounding budget Balanced BT HD listening set-up.

I've also listened to my Svara-L (115Ω) using the ES100, and they sound good.  One thing I'm thinking about trying, is to use the EarStudio app, and adjust the Treble up a bit for the Svara-L - to see what it does for details and sound stage.


----------



## gazzington

seanc6441 said:


> @chinmie nice! I cannot wait to try the balanced cable I got for the TO400s.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32859444405/32859444405.html
> 
> ...


I've just ordered that dap too. Now its the waiting game. I've heard the hiby was powerful and was wondering about buying some buds that like more power


----------



## HungryPanda

The nicest balanced cable I have from OurArt


----------



## winterflood

@chinmie i just noticed you have ifi earbuddy , is that need huge power to drive an 32ohm earbud? in next time im planning to get it soon for pair it with my fiio x5 1st and direct it with my buds without an amp but im still doubt my x5 would drive my earbud with earbuddy properly.
currently with my x5 could drive my earbud (most 32ohm) with vol 65/120


----------



## mbwilson111

Carrow said:


> full foams don't even want to attempt to go on the things, much less stay on. JFC, I do not have the motor skills for applying those hahahah



Often takes me 10 minutes for each foam.  Sometimes there are tears of frustration. Unless my husband is home


----------



## ClieOS

stocamadas said:


> What is its sound sig ? Please compare with the original BK. Thanks.



Search, and you shall find.



ClieOS said:


> No worry, I'll keep to posting short impression if nothing else.
> 
> On that note, just finish listening to both Shozy BK / Stardust and Cygnus LE (with a side serving of regular Cygnus) - I think overall I'll say the two are nearly equal in SQ, but with a rather different presentation. BK really has more or less a mature / smooth yet fairly all-accomplishing sound, especially when driven balanced. Some might have called it being a bit too neutral, which I don't think is the most corrected word to my opinion, but rather a bit on the blander (= lacking strong character) side of presentation. Cygnus LE, if anything, is comparatively more energetic and forwarded sounding. If BK is aimed to be an all rounder, Cygnus LE is really more of a 'pop star', so to speak. In contrast, Cygnus LE has a fuller and forwarder presentation with a harder hitting bass and overall dynamic, which goes really well with mainstream music. In exchange of this more energetic sound, Cygnus LE has a smaller soundstage as everything tends to sound fuller but also more 'in-your-face'. Though technically Cygnus LE can hit just as high and low a note as BK, the forwardness in presentation means 'big' music like classical lost a bit of grandness on it, but pop and rock gain a bit of more sweetness and PRaT. It is all about give and take between the BK and Cygnus LE. In that sense, I think the regular Cygnus is more or less in-between the two but more toward BK in tuning.


----------



## boblauer

Listening to my forgotten TP16's today, these are so nice they work with so many genre's. Right now it's Chick Corea Electirc Band and that is sublime. Thin Monk foams on the TP16. Glad I found these in the bottom of my bag at work. 

To respond to the other foam questions, I get them on ok just happen to tear almost every third one, I've found that if I stretch them a bit between my fingers they seem to go on easier.


----------



## Carrow (Apr 3, 2018)

Venture Electronics Monk Plus Coffee with orange matching coffee full foams on (that's a Cayin N3 in the background). Something tells me I won't be taking those foams off in a hurry. YIKES.


----------



## seanc6441

Carrow said:


> Venture Electronics Monk Plus Coffee with orange full foams on (that's a Cayin N3 in the background). Something tells me I won't be taking those foams off in a hurry. YIKES.


I didn't know it came with matching colour foams. Looking good.

I'm a coffee person


----------



## Carrow

seanc6441 said:


> I didn't know it came with matching colour foams. Looking good.
> 
> I'm a coffee person



Oh yeah duh they are coffee coloured, hahah. They came in an extra plastic pack, must have been a special addition to the EX pack I ordered with 'em!


----------



## mbwilson111

Carrow said:


> Oh yeah duh they are coffee coloured, hahah. They came in an extra plastic pack, must have been a special addition to the EX pack I ordered with 'em!



My   Coffee Monk Plus came with a small pack of black foams and coffee foams. 

I did not buy the ex pack with them.   I think the ex pack has black, white, blue, red and maybe some hook thingies.


----------



## Carrow

mbwilson111 said:


> My   Coffee Monk Plus came with a small pack of black foams and coffee foams.
> 
> I did not buy the ex pack with them.   I think the ex pack has black, white, blue, red and maybe some hook thingies.



Ah OK, it has hook thingies and rubber rings and a bunch of foams in various colours and thiccness. The coffee foams I'm using are nice and thicc. I just have all the accessories in the main EX pack resealable plastic bag. It's a lot.


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Fixed that for you! Please provide a link if possible. Thanks!​



 

This the cable i purchased, but i can't post the link here, because, you know, forum rules  but you can easily search them in AE
Nice cable, but i ordered the L shaped head like in the picture (hoping i can use it with my ER4XR). It didn't fit, and using it with the Svara-L is a little bit awkward. If i could rewind time, i would buy the straight mmcx head and with non plastic tubing. 



seanc6441 said:


> @chinmie nice! I cannot wait to try the balanced cable I got for the TO400s.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32859444405/32859444405.html
> 
> ...



Just make sure you mention to the seller you want the balanced version, as from the picture only, it's all single ended. 

I ordered **** PT15 and chatted with the seller that i want the new single hole vent (he also made sure they only sell the new one) ..it arrived with the old four holes version.. Woop dee doo... 



DBaldock9 said:


> I've been using a VE Espresso 2.5mm TRRS > MMCX cable (I have replaced the MMCX connectors), for my various earbuds and earphones, while connected to my ES100.
> The standard length (1.2m) cable is fine for when I'm using the ES100 as a USB DAC, but I'm probably going to assemble some shorter cables (MMCX & 2-pin) - for when I'm using the ES100 as a BT Receiver.
> The PT15 (~$9), VE Espresso (~$13), and ES100 ($99) - make a great sounding budget Balanced BT HD listening set-up.
> 
> I've also listened to my Svara-L (115Ω) using the ES100, and they sound good.  One thing I'm thinking about trying, is to use the EarStudio app, and adjust the Treble up a bit for the Svara-L - to see what it does for details and sound stage.



Someone in the ER4 thread posted this method of braiding the cable to shorten thr length a bit. Might come handy using  it with the ES100

http://www.animatedknots.com/braid/index.php?Categ=decorative&LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg


----------



## chinmie

winterflood said:


> @chinmie i just noticed you have ifi earbuddy , is that need huge power to drive an 32ohm earbud? in next time im planning to get it soon for pair it with my fiio x5 1st and direct it with my buds without an amp but im still doubt my x5 would drive my earbud with earbuddy properly.
> currently with my x5 could drive my earbud (most 32ohm) with vol 65/120



I'm using it to drive my 500 ohm buds (yinman and puresounds) from my ipod classic, and even my S7edge, so i think your X5 shouldn't have problems. X5 have variable gain settings i presume? 
The earbuddy is great investment, it enhance the sound and doesn't cost too much. Recommended for low impedance buds/phones, as with high impedance ones, the difference in sound is not too noticable


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> Often takes me 10 minutes for each foam.  Sometimes there are tears of frustration. Unless my husband is home



If it's new foam, fluff them a little before applying. I change foams too often when trying new buds that i can put them on fast with ease, unless on slippery metal buds like moondrop's


----------



## winterflood

chinmie said:


> I'm using it to drive my 500 ohm buds (yinman and puresounds) from my ipod classic, and even my S7edge, so i think your X5 shouldn't have problems. X5 have variable gain settings i presume?
> The earbuddy is great investment, it enhance the sound and doesn't cost too much. Recommended for low impedance buds/phones, as with high impedance ones, the difference in sound is not too noticable


Wow thanks..yes x5 has high gain and low gain, i thought earbuddy just like impendance adapter which increases the impedance of my buds


----------



## chellity (Apr 3, 2018)

capnjack said:


> Just had a couple of pairs of buds turn up that seem to be great value!
> 
> 1- Yincrow x6 - AliExpress- $6 ‘ish excellent value and sounds, seems to lack a little sub-bass but otherwise excellent.
> 
> ...



That's great to hear about the new mark 1s! Ordered mine about a week ago, but it will take a month to get to me again. 

Everyone should own something from willsound, truly.  Even if you have higher end buds, some willsounds for around $40 would be perfect for casual listening out and about.  It just feels like his newer buds have few if any downsides for the price...still in love with my SPC cable mark 2s, probably my only earbud that I happily use without bass EQ!  My Kinera earbuds can keep up with bass EQ thankfully, but i'd still say mk2s are overall better.


----------



## chinmie

winterflood said:


> Wow thanks..yes x5 has high gain and low gain, i thought earbuddy just like impendance adapter which increases the impedance of my buds



Sort of.. The result in sound is different than the regular impedance adapter. It lowers the volume output, but doesn't change the sound (much) like an impedance adapter does.



chellity said:


> That's great to hear about the new mark 1s! Ordered mine about a week ago, but it will take a month to get to me again.
> 
> Everyone should own something from willsound, truly.  Even if you have higher end buds, some willsounds for around $40 would be perfect for casual listening out and about.  It just feels like his newer buds have few if any downsides for the price...still in love with my SPC cable mark 2s, probably my only earbud that I happily use without bass EQ!  My Kinera earbuds can keep up with bass EQ thankfully, but i'd still say mk2s are overall better.



True! The MK2 remains one of my favorite bass buds to this day.. Well, not just bass, it's one of my favourite overall sounding buds!


----------



## waynes world

chellity said:


> That's great to hear about the new mark 1s! Ordered mine about a week ago, but it will take a month to get to me again.
> 
> Everyone should own something from willsound, truly.  Even if you have higher end buds, some willsounds for around $40 would be perfect for casual listening out and about.  It just feels like his newer buds have few if any downsides for the price...still in love with my SPC cable mark 2s, probably my only earbud that I happily use without bass EQ!  My Kinera earbuds can keep up with bass EQ thankfully, but i'd still say mk2s are overall better.





chinmie said:


> True! The MK2 remains one of my favorite bass buds to this day.. Well, not just bass, it's one of my favourite overall sounding buds!



I'm pretty sure the MK2's will be my next purchase in a month or so 

And thanks for the cable info!


----------



## SweetEars (Apr 3, 2018)

Here is a small cut out mod i tried to flesh out the muffled sound of the newer clear  graphenes..tried it on the R4YS and EMX 500 too. R4ys sounds absolutely more articulated with this mod..
i presume this mod will try to flesh out the mids and do some depth ariculation , clarity and positioning


----------



## golov17

Good earbuds for small ears. I recommend


----------



## Townyj

So ive been away for a bit, what are some newer earbuds up around the B160/B320 and Diomnes..?? I know about the CF 2, need to get a pair some time around. Anything else comparable..??


----------



## chinmie

golov17 said:


> Good earbuds for small ears. I recommend



what's the sound signature?


----------



## seanc6441

ifi earbuddy/ie match is also beneficial for the hiby R6 or other high output impendance devices as it changes the output impendance to somewhere between 1.2-2.5 ohm (depends on the version you get and the mode its in).

This little thing basically saves the hiby R6 for use with sensitive IEM’s and some earbuds. As the R6 by default outputs 10 ohm!

So yeah as chinmie said it’s a great little device with multiple uses. I’ll be picking up one myself for my R6.


----------



## handwander

Is it wrong to want the Penon BS1s just because I like the way they look? 

If only the Experience model was still available.


----------



## j4100

I managed to exercise considerable restraint and never ordered anything in the sale, though was slightly tempted with the TO400. Still thinking about the Edimun V3 and some of the new arrivals at Rholupat though.


----------



## seanc6441

handwander said:


> Is it wrong to want the Penon BS1s just because I like the way they look?
> 
> If only the Experience model was still available.





handwander said:


> Is it wrong to want the Penon BS1s just because I like the way they look?
> 
> If only the Experience model was still available.


Experience and official do look different, but share a similar shaped housing. Cables are different, metal vs plastic housing. Different strain relief design.


----------



## handwander

seanc6441 said:


> Experience and official do look different, but share a similar shaped housing. Cables are different, metal vs plastic housing. Different strain relief design.


Perhaps they are 'close enough' at the price where I could justify the purchase for such a shallow reason!


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 4, 2018)

handwander said:


> Perhaps they are 'close enough' at the price where I could justify the purchase for such a shallow reason!


Is it the shape you like? These look similar minus the cable colour. These look better built than the bs1 exp, more akin to the bs1 official.




https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32807665034/32807665034.html


----------



## chinmie

j4100 said:


> I managed to exercise considerable restraint and never ordered anything in the sale, though was slightly tempted with the TO400. Still thinking about the Edimun V3 and some of the new arrivals at Rholupat though.



i think the willsound mk2 is similar to edimun with better extensions and presentation..and also cheaper. the red demun and raven mk2 is great and balanced though


----------



## handwander

seanc6441 said:


> Is it the shape you like? These look similar minus the cable colour. These look better built than the bs1 exp, more akin to the bs1 official.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32807665034/32807665034.html


I think it's a combo of the relatively simple black bud, short stem part, and cable. Have some **** tanks coming in the mail at the moment, so let's see how those are.


----------



## Yobster69

waynes world said:


> I'm pretty sure the MK2's will be my next purchase in a month or so
> 
> And thanks for the cable info!


I second, third and fourth the comments about the Mk2’s, fantastic buds for the price, can be either lovely a polite with mids that almost match the Masyas, or skull crushers if you fancy loads of good quality bass. Definitely recommended


----------



## j4100

chinmie said:


> i think the willsound mk2 is similar to edimun with better extensions and presentation..and also cheaper. the red demun and raven mk2 is great and balanced though



Really? I have the Willsound Mk2. It is a great bud. Need to listen to the Raven more. I havent been listening to portable music lately, but will do soon. Only recently decided to get a balanced amp, so will probably aim to get a few more balanced buds. Only have a few Monks, the Zen lite and the ZOE.


----------



## seanc6441

j4100 said:


> Really? I have the Willsound Mk2. It is a great bud. Need to listen to the Raven more. I havent been listening to portable music lately, but will do soon. Only recently decided to get a balanced amp, so will probably aim to get a few more balanced buds. Only have a few Monks, the Zen lite and the ZOE.



That was partly my thinking of getting the TO400s. I wanna see what my R6 can do in balanced and a detachable cable earbud with high impendance should be a perfect test.


----------



## Saoshyant

The Raven mk2 is certainly a step up from Edimun, but don’t take this as anything against it as I love them both.

I wasn’t nearly as impressed with Red Demun, but it’s cable is awfully stiff which ruins it for me.


----------



## capnjack (Apr 4, 2018)

Really, really impressed by the Willsound mk.1 Rev.2 even if it is very, very Red! Plenty of lows and detail all the way up through to the top end.


----------



## chinmie

Saoshyant said:


> The Raven mk2 is certainly a step up from Edimun, but don’t take this as anything against it as I love them both.
> 
> I wasn’t nearly as impressed with Red Demun, but it’s cable is awfully stiff which ruins it for me.



yup, the Achilles heel for red demun is always the stiff cable and fitting. if you can wear them without it moving, then you have a golden buds right there 

I'm lucky enough that it fits snuggly that it won't move. to lessen the stiff cable, i loosen the braid from the buds to the splitter


----------



## Ceteru

Welp, looks like I actually have a legitimate reason to buy new earbuds now xD

Last night, the left bud of Monk+ separated in my ear and when it did so, one of the very thin wires inside snapped. There go my commute/beater buds.

Any cheap suggestions for <$10? I know the general recommendations but now I kind of want something better built than the Monk+.


----------



## groucho69

Ceteru said:


> Welp, looks like I actually have a legitimate reason to buy new earbuds now xD
> 
> Last night, the left bud of Monk+ separated in my ear and when it did so, one of the very thin wires inside snapped. There go my commute/beater buds.
> 
> Any cheap suggestions for <$10? I know the general recommendations but now I kind of want something better built than the Monk+.



Monk Lite


----------



## Ceteru

groucho69 said:


> Monk Lite


How's the build on those?

I *have* owned my Monk+ for ~ 2 years now, but I didn't abuse it or anything. I don't want a repeat of this happening out of nowhere.


----------



## boblauer

Ceteru said:


> How's the build on those?
> 
> I *have* owned my Monk+ for ~ 2 years now, but I didn't abuse it or anything. I don't want a repeat of this happening out of nowhere.


Honestly if 2 years is premature failure to you I'm not sure you may find something better. Good luck as MP are pretty solidly built for the $


----------



## Ceteru

boblauer said:


> Honestly if 2 years is premature failure to you I'm not sure you may find something better. Good luck as MP are pretty solidly built for the $


Not a bad point.

I guess part of me is still used to the "full can" life. Earbuds do tend to go through more stress than other sound devices.


----------



## j4100

Never noticed this review of the DSQM Z&W Panda PK2 going up at the time. I have been using these for a while as my "drift off to sleep" buds. Quite like these and the shell is comfortable, even lying on my side. They have put up with some abuse over the last couple of months. I'm never sure when I'm going to wake up to find a loose wire or detached bud. Hopefully not  

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/dqsm-z-w-panda-pk2s-earbuds.22910/reviews


----------



## ChasingDopamine (Apr 4, 2018)

So after having been out of the earbuds game for a while I recently brought a monk plus to tide me over while I'm trying to decide what TOTL bud to buy.  It arrived this morning and I must say that I've definitely missed the convenience and form factor of buds.  Due to recurring ear infections for years I've not been able to use anything which penetrates inside the ear canal, so Ive been dragging around full size cans (+ DACs, cables etc..). With these on its so easy to forget they're even there, which is absolutely brilliant. Made me thinking of the inconviences Ive been accustomed to bearing in the pursuit of sound quality.

The monk + was definity the best buds I've ever heard and gave me confidence that these days earbuds can deliver. i last used earbuds 6-7 years ago and pretty much wrote then off, but it was great to discover that there is definitely potential out there in 2018.

They sound pretty good from my phone, but when I plugged them into a chord mojo alongside my Shure 1540s, I was very suprised at how well a £5 earbud could hold up vs a £400 full sized closed back. They sounded great. It pains me to say that the full sized will be staying at home from now on, and earbuds will take over the majority of my listening time.

Now to choose a TOTL earbud... The number of options is a bit overwhelming but I'm hoping one of them could offer a significant jump on the monks.


----------



## seanc6441

Ceteru said:


> Not a bad point.
> 
> I guess part of me is still used to the "full can" life. Earbuds do tend to go through more stress than other sound devices.


I would suggest emxs500 but the original emx500 had QC issues. Although the new one may address this as I have not read any negative feedback on that bud so far.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 4, 2018)

ChasingDopamine said:


> So after having been out of the earbuds game for a while I recently brought a monk plus to tide me over while I'm trying to decide what TOTL bud to buy.  It arrived this morning and I must say that I've definitely missed the convenience and form factor of buds.  Due to recurring ear infections for years I've not been able to use anything which penetrates inside the ear canal, so Ive been dragging around full size cans (+ DACs, cables etc..). With these on its so easy to forget they're even there, which is absolutely brilliant. Made me thinking of the inconviences Ive been accustomed to in the pursuit of sound quality.
> 
> The monk + was definity the best buds I've ever heard and gave me confidence that these days earbuds can deliver. i last used earbuds 6-7 years ago and pretty much wrote then off, but it was great to discover that there is definitely potential out there in 2018.
> 
> ...


All the earbuds I’ve owned since my monk plus have been better in some area, all the TOTL buds (or near TOTL) have been significantly better in every regard.

If the monks surprised you with their SQ then the premium earbuds will definitely bring a smile to your face 

I think the natural upgrade path from the monk is the Zen earbud. But I also think the shozy bk has similar traits in regards to tonality and a slight hint of darkness/warmth but without the usual dull/rolled off treble that you expect from such a bud. It’s quite airy and decently extended. Bass quality is much better on the bk though, more texture, weight and control.

The nice thing about the BK is it’s linear quality, there are no overly emphasised or sharp drops in the frequency response (to my ear) so whilst the mid bass to low mids have a slight emphasis, there is no frequency being sacrificed because of it. The full vocal spectrum is clearly defined and slightly pushed forward so every lyric has detail and authority. Not yo mention the quality of natural instruments like strings/drums/metal and brass. They all sound excellent and all hold a presence amoung the others.


----------



## groucho69

Ceteru said:


> How's the build on those?
> 
> I *have* owned my Monk+ for ~ 2 years now, but I didn't abuse it or anything. I don't want a repeat of this happening out of nowhere.



That sounds like a reasonable life for the cost. To me the Lite is better build and better sound.


----------



## seanc6441

groucho69 said:


> That sounds like a reasonable life for the cost. To me the Lite is better build and better sound.


Would also be beneficial to mention which version you are talking about (40/120 ohm, regular or spc cable)


----------



## groucho69

seanc6441 said:


> Would also be beneficial to mention which version you are talking about (40/120 ohm, regular or spc cable)



Right you are. 120 reg. Excellent bargain.


----------



## seanc6441

groucho69 said:


> Right you are. 120 reg. Excellent bargain.


have just the one on the way to me


----------



## groucho69

seanc6441 said:


> have just the one on the way to me



I wear it side inserted. Very comfy.


----------



## HungryPanda

I cannot turn any bud sideways in my little ears


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> I cannot turn any bud sideways in my little ears



Me neither.  I am lucky to get them to fit the regular way.


----------



## Ceteru

I often used my Monk+ with my phone; are the 120 ohm version particularly hard to drive?

Otherwise, I might just spring for a pair.


----------



## Saoshyant

Ceteru said:


> I often used my Monk+ with my phone; are the 120 ohm version particularly hard to drive?
> 
> Otherwise, I might just spring for a pair.



About 50% volume for 120 ohm in iPhone SE.


----------



## thehypewan

seanc6441 said:


> Would also be beneficial to mention which version you are talking about (40/120 ohm, regular or spc cable)



I'm a little out of the loop on the Monk Lite.  I see it's priced aggressively close to the Monk+ (I bought 20 two Christmases ago for gifts), What's special about the spc versus regular cabling?


----------



## Ceteru

Saoshyant said:


> About 50% volume for 120 ohm in iPhone SE.


That's pretty good, thanks for the info.

Only issue is, I don't have enough points to purchase straight from the VE site. I prefer using that site vs AliExpress, but I might have to suck it up this time.

Is the 40 ohm version significantly worse than the 120 ohm?


----------



## mbwilson111

Ceteru said:


> Is the 40 ohm version significantly worse than the 120 ohm?



I have both the 40 ohm Monk Lite and the 120 ohm... I like them both and I love the fit.


----------



## seanc6441

thehypewan said:


> I'm a little out of the loop on the Monk Lite.  I see it's priced aggressively close to the Monk+ (I bought 20 two Christmases ago for gifts), What's special about the spc versus regular cabling?


I guess it’s up to the buyer to decide. Silver plated copper vs copper cable.


----------



## Saoshyant

I still haven’t looked into the point system.  Not sure how many I have, but might try the detachable Monk.


----------



## Tweeters

Is there a reasonably cheap way to get Willsound MK2 or other Indonesian buds shipped to the US?


----------



## groucho69

Tweeters said:


> Is there a reasonably cheap way to get Willsound MK2 or other Indonesian buds shipped to the US?



Not that I've found


----------



## seanc6441

Tweeters said:


> Is there a reasonably cheap way to get Willsound MK2 or other Indonesian buds shipped to the US?


Maybe combined shipping is your best bet. Buy 2 or more buds and ask for them to be shipped as one package.

I know that isn’t ideal if you are looking to keep it under a certain budget.


----------



## boblauer

groucho69 said:


> Not that I've found


Which is why I have never made the jump, so wanted to several times but after I factor in shipping it was always too rich for my blood.


----------



## Saoshyant

I remember when rholupat only charged $8 shipping, those were the days.


----------



## groucho69

boblauer said:


> Which is why I have never made the jump, so wanted to several times but after I factor in shipping it was always too rich for my blood.



It has always stopped me as well...until earlier today...I'm a bad boy.


----------



## groucho69

Saoshyant said:


> I remember when rholupat only charged $8 shipping, those were the days.



Local currency likely has not behaved favorably and/or the local authorities need a bigger cut.


----------



## boblauer

groucho69 said:


> It has always stopped me as well...until earlier today...I'm a bad boy.


Yep my self imposed moratorium on buying lasted 12 weeks into the new year. if you don't mind me asking what were you quoted as shipping, last year I was quoted $30 which seemed high to me or maybe I'm cheap.


----------



## handwander

Tank! Will spend the next several hours trying to find a good fit position.


----------



## stimuz

Quick question before I go even deeper into the BUDS. Got a **** PT15 on the way which I'm told is a good entry level, main question is should I aim for an open back earbud if I wanna hear everything going on around me or will the incomplete seal be enough to hear ambient sounds? I haven't used earbuds in years.


----------



## j4100

Im pretty sure that all earbuds allow a degree of ambient sound to enter, unless you have the volume at ear-splitting levels.

In other news, I finally located an original Monk only to find that ABnormal dont do the Diomnes conversion any more 

In further news, Crow Audio have another bud in the pipeline.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 5, 2018)

stimuz said:


> Quick question before I go even deeper into the BUDS. Got a **** PT15 on the way which I'm told is a good entry level, main question is should I aim for an open back earbud if I wanna hear everything going on around me or will the incomplete seal be enough to hear ambient sounds? I haven't used earbuds in years.


Most buds are open in some way behind the driver, but the open sound usually comes from the imperfect seal provided even with thick foam.

Tuning is done by the vents so in essence it’s like openback or semi openback depending on the earbud.


----------



## Danneq

Townyj said:


> So ive been away for a bit, what are some newer earbuds up around the B160/B320 and Diomnes..?? I know about the CF 2, need to get a pair some time around. Anything else comparable..??



Hi! Well, Cypherus has recently released ZoomFred. There's also Penon BS1 which is hyped a bit in this thread. As well as a few new K earbuds. I haven't tried any of them but am thinking about buying ZoomFred...


----------



## Townyj

Danneq said:


> Hi! Well, Cypherus has recently released ZoomFred. There's also Penon BS1 which is hyped a bit in this thread. As well as a few new K earbuds. I haven't tried any of them but am thinking about buying ZoomFred...



Danneq! How ya doing  exactly the reply i was after. Well it looks like im gonna have to grab either the CF2 or ZoomFred then. I see you have added a few buds since i have been away. Nice!


----------



## handwander

I love the sound of these tanks but the fit is a bit uncomfortable. The diameter seems a bit large for my left ear and so it's hard to sit them comfortably before feeling some strain after a few minutes. Tried over ear and different foam setups as well.


----------



## stimuz

seanc6441 said:


> Most buds are open in some way behind the driver, but the open sound usually comes from the imperfect seal provided even with thick foam.
> 
> Tuning is done by the vents so in essence it’s like openback or semi openback depending on the earbud.



Thanks. I'll just patiently await delivery before deciding which to get next, kinda worried about fit too.


----------



## groucho69

boblauer said:


> Yep my self imposed moratorium on buying lasted 12 weeks into the new year. if you don't mind me asking what were you quoted as shipping, last year I was quoted $30 which seemed high to me or maybe I'm cheap.



I went the cheap no tracking for $12.


----------



## redkingjoe

Danneq said:


> Hi! Well, Cypherus has recently released ZoomFred. There's also Penon BS1 which is hyped a bit in this thread. As well as a few new K earbuds. I haven't tried any of them but am thinking about buying ZoomFred...



Have you ever listened to sennheiser mx 985?

Which of the TOTL earbuds can match or beat mx 985?


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 5, 2018)

Well my monk lite 120 ohm arrived today... I’d be lying if I said I was impressed, I don’t think the price-performance can stand up to the emx500/vido etc.

It just lacks clarity for me, it’s more balanced than the monk plus but lacks the personality that bud had. With the monk plus you could appreciate the dark signature and slightly artificial but airy treble. This time around I feel as though the monk lite is trying to be a jack of all trades but ultimately it is master of none. Also it doesn’t seem to scale well to a more powerful source despite being 120 ohm. I found it no different in quality being driven from my iphone 6s than my V20 in high impendance mode. I’ll burn it in to see if anything changes though.

Ok but on to the positives. It’s balanced sounding, not so much ‘natural/neutral’ but it’s overall fairly balanced albeit slightly too rolled off in the treble and sub bass. The size is perfect for a sleeping bud, it’s extremely thin and doesn’t protude from the ear at all. So that’s what I’ll use it for! It’s the only bud that doesn’t hurt if I rest my head against a pillow. Even the pk shell buds are a little too thick for that. I find it sounds best foamless or with none of the vents obstructed by foam (so I cut some more hole foamies).

It’s not terrible for the price, it’s about middle of the pack in terms of budget earbuds. But it has to be the most comfortable in ear which is it’s selling point for me!


----------



## redkingjoe

handwander said:


> I love the sound of these tanks but the fit is a bit uncomfortable. The diameter seems a bit large for my left ear and so it's hard to sit them comfortably before feeling some strain after a few minutes. Tried over ear and different foam setups as well.



For me the most comfortable TOTL is Shozy BK which has the smallest shell. 

After getting the BK, I was so happy that I bought the BK Limited with the silver cable!


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Well my monk lite 120 ohm arrived today... I’d be lying if I said I was impressed, I don’t think the price-performance can stand up to the emx500/vido etc.
> 
> It just lacks clarity for me, it’s more balanced than the monk plus but lacks the personality that bud had. With the monk plus you could appreciate the dark signature and slightly artificial but airy treble. This time around I feel as though the monk lite is trying to be a jack of all trades but ultimately it is master of none. Also it doesn’t seem to scale well to a more powerful source despite being 120 ohm. I found it no different in quality being driven from my iphone 6s than my V20 in high impendance mode. I’ll burn it in to see if anything changes though.
> 
> ...



thanks, that's one buds curiosity that i can let pass now. by the way, have you tried the zens? the zen 2 is now my new "going to bed" buds, as it sounded really pleasant, wide and airy staging, and also (because no need for foams) fit nicely on the ears


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 5, 2018)

chinmie said:


> thanks, that's one buds curiosity that i can let pass now. by the way, have you tried the zens? the zen 2 is now my new "going to bed" buds, as it sounded really pleasant, wide and airy staging, and also (because no need for foams) fit nicely on the ears


Sadly not but I can imagine that being the ultimate comfort bud for this purpose.

Even the monk plus had some benefits using thin foams (slightly more bass) but with the lites I can see none.

Infact using foams actually makes the bass a little flabby and bloated. It has an OK amount of bass without foams and has an adequate amount of treble this way (although still not enough for my liking). It most definitely sounds the most balanced and clear with decent body to the mids foamless. I feel like these buds were designed to be used without foams, they are just as comfortable and fit well without them.

I was a little harsh in my first impressions. They have a fairly pleasant sound foamless, the lack of clarity is more a lack of finer detail. Overall it’s got moderate clarity but it doesn’t really reveal too much detail, especially in the upper mids/treble and in the bass.

However for podcasts and such? I can see this being a very useful bud!


----------



## Townyj (Apr 6, 2018)

redkingjoe said:


> Have you ever listened to sennheiser mx 985?
> 
> Which of the TOTL earbuds can match or beat mx 985?



There are a few high end earbuds out. The Zen 1 and 2, TY650, K500, Diomnes, Campfred 1 and 2, Stardust and whatever new buds that have dropped since i was away from HF.

Some of these could be on par, thus said i have only heard the CF1 and CF2, also own the Diomnes. In the end its all up to the person's ear's. 

*Edit*


----------



## theoutsider

HungryPanda said:


> The nicest balanced cable I have from OurArt





 
I have just jumped on the balanced bandwagon.


----------



## ctaxxxx

j4100 said:


> Im pretty sure that all earbuds allow a degree of ambient sound to enter, unless you have the volume at ear-splitting levels.
> 
> In other news, I finally located an original Monk only to find that ABnormal dont do the Diomnes conversion any more
> 
> In further news, Crow Audio have another bud in the pipeline.



That's a shame. Out of all the buds I've bought and sold, the Diomnes are still my favorite. It has the same signature as the Beryllium phones I mentioned before, but in a much less exaggerated way (with thin foams at least). Not to mention the deep soundstage. 

I do wonder if they're losing clarity though. Don't know if it's just me, but they have been sounding smoother. Sounds more like mid-focused bud now. Treble is no longer bright. The cable is slowly oxidizing (little spots here and there) and I don't really have the old Monk+ thin foams anymore (new ones are a little thicker).


----------



## redkingjoe

Townyj said:


> Pretty sure there are a few already.. The Zen 1 and 2, TY650, K500, Diomnes, Campfred 1 and 2, Stardust and whatever new buds that have dropped since i was away from HF.
> 
> Some of these would be on par or higher, thus said i have only heard the CF1 and CF2, also own the Diomnes. In the end its all up to the person's ear's.



Thanks for your kind information!

So I won’t spend a fortune to get MX985!


----------



## Townyj

redkingjoe said:


> Thanks for your kind information!
> 
> So I won’t spend a fortune to get MX985!



Yeah the MX985 is highly over priced since being out of production.


----------



## ChasingDopamine

Does anyone know if the Campfred2,  Qfred and shozy BK sit in regards to sound quality? Is it just a difference in tonality and presentation or are they in different tiers in regards to technicalities and how good they are?


----------



## j4100

ChasingDopamine said:


> Does anyone know if the Campfred2,  Qfred and shozy BK sit in regards to sound quality? Is it just a difference in tonality and presentation or are they in different tiers in regards to technicalities and how good they are?



Your best bet is to use the "search this thread only" part of the search function. There have been loads of impressions here in the past.


----------



## ctaxxxx

ChasingDopamine said:


> Does anyone know if the Campfred2,  Qfred and shozy BK sit in regards to sound quality? Is it just a difference in tonality and presentation or are they in different tiers in regards to technicalities and how good they are?



IMO - CampFred 2 >= Shozy BK > QFred

While I prefer QFred's mids over the Shozy BK, they don't perform as well everywhere else. This is amplified by the fact that the initial models by Cypherus had a distortion issue at louder volumes - These models being CampFred 1 and QFred. The build quality is also not up to par as the other two.


----------



## Saoshyant

Just feel that a reminder needs to be mentioned.  At the quality point that the MX985 sits, it’s not so much a matter of better but better suited.  It’s still highly sought after for a reason.  

I’ll admit it’s not well suited to me at all, but someone stating a list of better earbuds that they haven’t heard is generally frowned upon.


----------



## subwoof3r

Hi guys, long time no see!

I'm so happy with my TH900 since many months now, that I completely forget earbuds world since ages.

But it looks like the contrary now, and would like to go back to earbuds. Followed a bit the thread since few days and ordered both Willsound MK1 (rev2) and MK2 (rev2), and also a pair of Fengru DIY EMX500S.
Until now, my best earbuds pair (which I still own) is still definitely Blox BE3 (rev1).
Can't wait to receive Willsound ones! (especially MK2)
I also still own H180, Monk (not the plus version), etc.

I will try to make a quick comparison, especially between BE3.
Stay tuned!


----------



## seanc6441

subwoof3r said:


> Hi guys, long time no see!
> 
> I'm so happy with my TH900 since many months now, that I completely forget earbuds world since ages.
> 
> ...


Nice purchases! Did you get combined shipping on those Willsounds from Rholupat? May have to check out some myself if that’s the case 

Good choices you’ve obviously been keeping your ears open to the suggestions going around hete lately , will be interested to hear your comparisons!


----------



## Townyj

Saoshyant said:


> Just feel that a reminder needs to be mentioned.  At the quality point that the MX985 sits, it’s not so much a matter of better but better suited.  It’s still highly sought after for a reason.
> 
> I’ll admit it’s not well suited to me at all, but someone stating a list of better earbuds that they haven’t heard is generally frowned upon.



Highly sought after because its not made anymore.. For a collector fair enough. Frowned upon or not i stated that it depends on the persons ears in the end. I merely gave a list of earbuds that people have mentioned are on par or could be better sounding. In the end its up to the purchaser to make their decision. Is there harm in giving some direction..??


----------



## Saoshyant

You still made a list of buds including those you’ve never heard saying they’re better.  MX985 is a good bud, just not well suited for everyone.  I’ll probably trade mine away at some point.


----------



## HungryPanda

Point of today TY_Z 320 ohm a steal at the price. Audio Heaven guaranteed


----------



## Saoshyant

On the other end of the price spectrum, my Poseidon is in the US, but no arrival estimate as of yet, so here’s hoping a handful of days.

Never thought I’d spend this much on an earbud.


----------



## HungryPanda

Saoshyant said:


> On the other end of the price spectrum, my Poseidon is in the US, but no arrival estimate as of yet, so here’s hoping a handful of days.
> 
> Never thought I’d spend this much on an earbud.


I hope it does what you want. TY-HI-Z 320 ohm just does it better


----------



## Saoshyant

Don’t make me smash a ZMF Ori just to spite you


----------



## HungryPanda

Depends on what You desir1


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> I hope it does what you want. TY-HI-Z 320 ohm just does it better



What's the overall sound signature of the TY Hi-Z 320?
My TY Hi-Z HP650 (2.5mm TRRS) has a strong Bass, and a somewhat recessed Midrange & Treble (maybe a bit more Midrange than my Svara-L (115Ω)).


----------



## groucho69

seanc6441 said:


> Well my monk lite 120 ohm arrived today... I’d be lying if I said I was impressed, I don’t think the price-performance can stand up to the emx500/vido etc.
> 
> It just lacks clarity for me, it’s more balanced than the monk plus but lacks the personality that bud had. With the monk plus you could appreciate the dark signature and slightly artificial but airy treble. This time around I feel as though the monk lite is trying to be a jack of all trades but ultimately it is master of none. Also it doesn’t seem to scale well to a more powerful source despite being 120 ohm. I found it no different in quality being driven from my iphone 6s than my V20 in high impendance mode. I’ll burn it in to see if anything changes though.
> 
> ...



I found that it cleared considerably over time. And wearing it inserted sideways made a big difference.


----------



## handwander

redkingjoe said:


> For me the most comfortable TOTL is Shozy BK which has the smallest shell.
> After getting the BK, I was so happy that I bought the BK Limited with the silver cable!


Welp after a couple of days, I think either the Tank or buds in general might not be for my ear shape. Will see if I can try on something smaller at e-earphone. Too bad ~


----------



## doggiemom (Apr 5, 2018)

Tweeters said:


> Is there a reasonably cheap way to get Willsound MK2 or other Indonesian buds shipped to the US?


Rholupat does have an economy shipping option to the US.  Takes about a month to arrive, but a tracking number is provided.  After paying $30 shipping on one ~$40 pair of DIY buds, now I wait until there are a few things I want and order 3 or 4 items at the same time.  The shipping cost doesn't increase when ordering multiple buds because they are small/light items, but it does sting a bit less when the shipping cost is amortized across multiple purchases.

Edited to say:  the economy option was $12 to the US, and the regular shipping was $27.


----------



## jrazmar

I'm becoming more and more curious about this Willsound MK2. Still, the Liebesleid is still on its way and I don't want to itch my hand for another purchase.  Hope the Moondrop would give me the best reason not to purchase another buds soon. Still, I got the old Monks and wondering if the Diomnes Lv2 is in another or the same level with the Liebesleid. This curiosity never fades after all while one stays in this forum.


----------



## chinmie

jrazmar said:


> I'm becoming more and more curious about this Willsound MK2. Still, the Liebesleid is still on its way and I don't want to itch my hand for another purchase.  Hope the Moondrop would give me the best reason not to purchase another buds soon. Still, I got the old Monks and wondering if the Diomnes Lv2 is in another or the same level with the Liebesleid. This curiosity never fades after all while one stays in this forum.



Call me crazy, but i prefer the Willsound MK2 than the Diomnes Lv2


----------



## subwoof3r (Apr 6, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Nice purchases! Did you get combined shipping on those Willsounds from Rholupat? May have to check out some myself if that’s the case
> 
> Good choices you’ve obviously been keeping your ears open to the suggestions going around hete lately , will be interested to hear your comparisons!



Hehe thanks, I was very curious on these (but very few) hypes on Willsound products that I wanted to give a personal try 
I buyed both MK1 & MK2 shipped with "Economy Shipping - with tracking number" which is the cheapest method, for 12$, so a total of 76$ shipped.
As DAC/AMP desktop combo I still only have my Fostex HP-A8C for now, so I hope the pair will be good.
Cheers'


----------



## capnjack

subwoof3r said:


> Hehe thanks, I was very curious on these (but very few) hypes on Willsound products that I wanted to give a personal try
> I buyed both MK1 & MK2 shipped with "Economy Shipping - with tracking number" which is the cheapest method, for 12$, so a total of 76$ shipped.
> As DAC/AMP desktop combo I still only have my Fostex HP-A8C for now, so I hope the pair will be good.
> Cheers'


Willsound Mk1 rev2 sounds great with or without an amp. Give it a bit more power and it sounds better though!


----------



## j4100

jrazmar said:


> Still, I got the old Monks and wondering if the Diomnes Lv2 is in another or the same level...



FYI - apparently the ABnormal guys are no longer modding old Monks to Diomnes. I havent contacted them directly, but Adhi at Rholupat did and that's what he told me. Might be worth direct contact though.


----------



## j4100

Nearly finished with my dispute on a non-delivered package through Aliexpress. Placed order on 29th Nov 

Royal Mail said it arrived in country but suspect it went missing at Heathrow!

Might actually get my EBX in a month or so now.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 6, 2018)

Saoshyant said:


> On the other end of the price spectrum, my Poseidon is in the US, but no arrival estimate as of yet, so here’s hoping a handful of days.
> 
> Never thought I’d spend this much on an earbud.



A universal experience around here. If you had told me a year ago that I’d be replacing my earpods with €175 brass earbuds I’d have laughed at you... 



j4100 said:


> Nearly finished with my dispute on a non-delivered package through Aliexpress. Placed order on 29th Nov
> 
> Royal Mail said it arrived in country but suspect it went missing at Heathrow!
> 
> Might actually get my EBX in a month or so now.


Well, s**t that sucks. I thought my monk lites where lost in transit until I received them yesterday after a 2 month wait. But obviously it’s not the same as waiting for an earbud 10 times the cost!

We must experience similar waiting times being across the pond from each other. I’m usually expecting a month long wait on average.

Curious though have you ever been caught with import fee’s from aliexpress? It’s never happened for me so far thank god! That and free shipping is why I’m usually pretty understanding of the long delivery times.


----------



## j4100 (Apr 6, 2018)

The EBX thing was a bit odd. I finally got an "in country" message at the end of Jan, so left it a while in case it was with customs etc. Ended up with Aliexpress showing it as delivered which prevented me raising a dispute.  Jim at NiceHCK has been very helpful and after Royal Mail confirming it never entered their system and presumed lost, Ali have promised to refund me. Funnily enough, probably the only parcel that has ever failed to reach me.

Lucky so far, never had to pay any extra fees. Probably had a dozen or so deliveries from China, Singapore, Thailand, Indonesia.

Edit

Good to hear your Monks arrived. 2 months is a long time for VE. I find they are usually less than 2 weeks.


----------



## mbwilson111

jrazmar said:


> This curiosity never fades after all while one stays in this forum.



This is why my list is so long.  I cannot possibly give enough time to everything that I have...and yet,  I am waiting for a couple of things...


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 6, 2018)

j4100 said:


> Good to hear your Monks arrived. 2 months is a long time for VE. I find they are usually less than 2 weeks.



I have had 2 orders from VE.  Eight and ten days to reach the London area...so I am not too far from Heathrow.  I find almost everything from China to me arrives at Heathrow on a Friday so then I have to wait over the weekend for a Monday or Tuesday delivery.


----------



## gazzington

Ive started using my zen sites today.  Wasn't fussed at first but they have really opened up now.  Very comfortable and a powerful sound.


----------



## wskl

gazzington said:


> Ive started using my zen sites today.  Wasn't fussed at first but they have really opened up now.  Very comfortable and a powerful sound.



I've been listening to the Zen Lite almost daily for past 2-3 months, they are excellent, natural sounding and non-fatiguing.  They have handled my music effortlessly (YMMV), pretty much perfect for my listening preferences.  They seem to be a match made in heaven with the Runabout Plus too.


----------



## seanc6441

wskl said:


> I've been listening to the Zen Lite almost daily for past 2-3 months, they are excellent, natural sounding and non-fatiguing.  They have handled my music effortlessly (YMMV), pretty much perfect for my listening preferences.  They seem to be a match made in heaven with the Runabout Plus too.


If the difference between monk plus and monk lite is anything to go by can I assume the zen lite is pretty balanced sounding? Have you heard the zen 1/2?


----------



## wskl

seanc6441 said:


> If the difference between monk plus and monk lite is anything to go by can I assume the zen lite is pretty balanced sounding? Have you heard the zen 1/2?



I have not heard the Zen 1/2, but yes, the Zen Lite is balanced sounding, not what I would call flat in terms of frequency response, e.g. the bass is boosted a little but it is tastefully done and works in perfect harmony with the mids and treble, tonality is slightly warm.


----------



## gazzington

seanc6441 said:


> If the difference between monk plus and monk lite is anything to go by can I assume the zen lite is pretty balanced sounding? Have you heard the zen 1/2?


They are very balanced sounding but also very full and warm.  I have not heard zen 1 or 2 but right now I'm thinking they should be something I investigate.  I have ordered a hiby r6, and I wonder if that is powerful enough for the zen


----------



## mbwilson111

wskl said:


> I have not heard the Zen 1/2, but yes, the Zen Lite is balanced sounding, not what I would call flat in terms of frequency response, e.g. the bass is boosted a little but it is tastefully done and works in perfect harmony with the mids and treble, tonality is slightly warm.



You are making me want a Zen lite.  Afraid to look at the price.  My most expensive bud is my Toneking Ting at around $60 maybe a bit more...


----------



## gazzington

mbwilson111 said:


> You are making me want a Zen lite.  Afraid to look at the price.  My most expensive bud is my Toneking Ting at around $60 maybe a bit more...


I got mine as part of the runabout deal.  It came free with it, and it was worth it as they cost over £100 by themselves.  I think wild lee still has the deal running though....


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 6, 2018)

gazzington said:


> I got mine as part of the runabout deal.  It came free with it, and it was worth it as they cost over £100 by themselves.  I think wild lee still has the deal running though....



I have no use for another amp.  I would not use it.   I either use my desktop dac/amp with my PC or my tube amp in the living room fed by my better daps.   But mainly I like to be portable even around the house.  Whatever I use in this way has to be pocketable.

So I would want to get it on its own...is it worth the price if you just get the bud?


----------



## gazzington

mbwilson111 said:


> You are making me want a Zen lite.  Afraid to look at the price.  My most expensive bud is my Toneking Ting at around $60 maybe a bit more...


Whats the toneking ting like?


----------



## theoutsider

gazzington said:


> I got mine as part of the runabout deal.  It came free with it, and it was worth it as they cost over £100 by themselves.  I think wild lee still has the deal running though....


I placed an order for the Zen Run About combo instead of getting EBX. I hope I am making the right choice.


----------



## gazzington

well i love the zen lite.  Been listening to metal today and it sound massive and full


----------



## HeadlessChicken

wskl said:


> I have not heard the Zen 1/2, but yes, the Zen Lite is balanced sounding, not what I would call flat in terms of frequency response, e.g. the bass is boosted a little but it is tastefully done and works in perfect harmony with the mids and treble, tonality is slightly warm.



Yes I would say balanced. I have Monk lites. Comparing them with the zen lites, zens have a fuller sound. With some genres it can sound like a boombox in your ear. I use thin VE foams over rubber rings for both lites


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 6, 2018)

gazzington said:


> Whats the toneking ting like?



I don't know... lol.  The Toneking Ting (and others) came when we had the flu.  I only gave it a brief listen to make sure it worked.  I am so far behind in checking out the gear I already have.  I should stop reading all threads... but sometimes they are entertaining  Maybe someone else will answer you.  Surely there are reviews.  There was a reason that I bought it


----------



## mbwilson111

HeadlessChicken said:


> t can sound like a boombox in your ear.



I would not want a boombox in my ear...


----------



## ChasingDopamine

In regards to ordering Shozy BK to the UK, would I be better off ordering of Aliexpress or from penon website? This is in regards to delivery times and packages being charged at customs.


----------



## SweetEars

http://www.rholupat.com/willsound-mk3.html

is this the same  or different???


----------



## Yobster69

ChasingDopamine said:


> In regards to ordering Shozy BK to the UK, would I be better off ordering of Aliexpress or from penon website? This is in regards to delivery times and packages being charged at customs.


As long as you do not choose to have it delivered quickly via DHL, UPS, FedEx and the like then you will always be fine. I have made dozens and dozens or orders from aliex and quite a few from Penon and never been charged any duty. If the price is the same from both, and both offer free delivery then pick Penon, just because as a vendor they are probably the most respected. 
I hope this helps


----------



## ctaxxxx

chinmie said:


> Call me crazy, but i prefer the Willsound MK2 than the Diomnes Lv2


Is that a challenge?! lol

Do they have the same sound signature? I might want to try these since they're only $30 and there's been a lot positive feedback. I don't dip much in this price range anyway.

Plus, I'm getting burnt out researching (expensive) IEMs and portable closed backs.

Edit: Wait MK2 or MK3?


----------



## chinmie

ctaxxxx said:


> Is that a challenge?! lol
> 
> Do they have the same sound signature? I might want to try these since they're only $30 and there's been a lot positive feedback. I don't dip much in this price range anyway.
> 
> ...



try it, you might like it, or not 
i do meant that though. they have similar signature, but the the diomnes have a boomy mid bass frequency bump that just annoyed me.. I've tried the LV1 and LV2, both have that bump.
the MK2 is like a modern and remastered version. also that bass and sub bass... man..you gotta try it..
i skipped the bass oriented TOTLs like the Diomnes Lv2, Samsara, even the Poseidon, because to me the MK2 suits me better

my most favorite is the MK2. if you like a warmer mids, than choose MK1. i haven't tried the MK3, but based on my friends, it has a brighter treble and leaner bass than MK2, tuned more for speed metal kind of song.


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> my most favorite is the MK2. if you like a warmer mids, than choose MK1.



if by warmer mids, you mean more emotion in the vocals, that is what I like....so would that mean the MK1 for me?


----------



## ctaxxxx

chinmie said:


> try it, you might like it, or not
> i do meant that though. they have similar signature, but the the diomnes have a boomy mid bass frequency bump that just annoyed me.. I've tried the LV1 and LV2, both have that bump.
> the MK2 is like a modern and remastered version. also that bass and sub bass... man..you gotta try it..
> i skipped the bass oriented TOTLs like the Diomnes Lv2, Samsara, even the Poseidon, because to me the MK2 suits me better
> ...



Yeah, I understand the point about the boomy mid-bass. It's why I use the thin foams, else it's too much for me too lol. I like it because it reminds me of my Sony Z1R. Really give male vocals that full bodied thickness and realism. It's definitely more of a specific taste.

I might try out the Mk2, since I've heard compliments about it's bass as well. 

On a personal note: Hope I don't have fitting problems like the ZoomFred though. The housings looks similar. I'm even having jaw pain issues with the portable Sony 1AM2. I'm just cursing my family genes that are making it difficult for me to be an audiophile.


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> if by warmer mids, you mean more emotion in the vocals, that is what I like....so would that mean the MK1 for me?



the mids is more rounded on MK1 while the MK2 have a more clearer mids. the MK1 also have a more rolled off treble while the MK2 extends more. i see your husband have the MK2? if you try them and feel you like it better if it has a softer attack on mids and treble, then the MK1 is for you



ctaxxxx said:


> Yeah, I understand the point about the boomy mid-bass. It's why I use the thin foams, else it's too much for me too lol. I like it because it reminds me of my Sony Z1R. Really give male vocals that full bodied thickness and realism. It's definitely more of a specific taste.
> 
> I might try out the Mk2, since I've heard compliments about it's bass as well.
> 
> On a personal note: Hope I don't have fitting problems like the ZoomFred though. The housings looks similar. I'm even having jaw pain issues with the portable Sony 1AM2. I'm just cursing my family genes that are making it difficult for me to be an audiophile.



the zoomfred is using standard MX500 shell if I'm not mistaken? the MK2 also uses standard MK2 like Diomnes, but the cable is much more softer and manageable


----------



## ctaxxxx (Apr 6, 2018)

chinmie said:


> the zoomfred is using standard MX500 shell if I'm not mistaken? the MK2 also uses standard MK2 like Diomnes, but the cable is much more softer and manageable


Ah, yes I believe so! If that's the case, then I'll order these right now.

Edit: What other buds use these Diomnes/MK2 housings?

Edit: Oh wait, I misunderstood. They are the same housing though aren't they? Not sure why I am having trouble with the ZoomFred's bass. Maybe it's due to the stiff cable twisting at a certain angle... I need to compare the two again...


----------



## chinmie

ctaxxxx said:


> Ah, yes I believe so! If that's the case, then I'll order these right now.
> 
> Edit: What other buds use these Diomnes/MK2 housings?



so many! 
monks, zen, cypherus buds, vidos, and many others (like almost 80 of the buds out there, give or take)


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> the mids is more rounded on MK1 while the MK2 have a more clearer mids. the MK1 also have a more rolled off treble while the MK2 extends more. i see your husband have the MK2? if you try them and feel you like it better if it has a softer attack on mids and treble, then the MK1 is for you



I will try his MK2 at some point.  Do they both use the same shell?  I do find Monk type shells to be slightly too big for me.  Sometimes I can get them to sit well and sometimes they want to fall out if I move much.  

At what frequency would you say the treble rolls off.  It might not make a difference if my hearing already rolls off...each decade the average person loses more and more hight frequencies.  Fortunately most of the music is actually lower than that and we can still enjoy it.

Someone posted a chart once but I can't find it.


----------



## gazzington

As I like the Zen lite so much I'm so wondering if I should get monk lites. And if so 40 or 120?


----------



## j4100

Currently grooving to the new Mien album (Black Angels, The Horrors, Elephant Stone, The Earlies members) through my ZOEs. Great stuff and it sounds great with plenty of detail.

 http://mien.bandcamp.com/album/mien


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> I will try his MK2 at some point.  Do they both use the same shell?  I do find Monk type shells to be slightly too big for me.  Sometimes I can get them to sit well and sometimes they want to fall out if I move much.
> 
> At what frequency would you say the treble rolls off.  It might not make a difference if my hearing already rolls off...each decade the average person loses more and more hight frequencies.  Fortunately most of the music is actually lower than that and we can still enjoy it.
> 
> Someone posted a chart once but I can't find it.



Unfortunately yes, they both have the same shell.

It's not a sharp roll off per se.  but more like passing the signal through a tape/tube amp or compressor
you could test your high frequency range here https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_frequencycheckhigh.php
there's also other useful audio test on that site that i love to use


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> Unfortunately yes, they both have the same shell.
> 
> It's not a sharp roll off per se.  but more like passing the signal through a tape/tube amp or compressor
> you could test your high frequency range here https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_frequencycheckhigh.php
> there's also other useful audio test on that site that i love to use



the chart I was talking about is one that shows what the average hearing range is during each decade of life... you might be surprised how quickly it can roll off...


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 6, 2018)

gazzington said:


> As I like the Zen lite so much I'm so wondering if I should get monk lites. And if so 40 or 120?


For me the monk lites have nothing really going for them other than form factor. That’s my opinion of course but if it wasn’t for the size which is handy for a sleeping bud, i’d never use them again.

Bass is very flabby, mids are smooth but veiled, treble isn’t high quality in detail or extension. Hoping for the sake of other buyers that mine was a bad one...


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 6, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> For me the monk lites have nothing really going for them other than form factor. That’s my opinion of course but if it wasn’t for the size which is handy for a sleeping bud, i’d never use them again.
> 
> Bass is very flabby, mids are smooth but veiled, treble isn’t high quality in detail or extension. Hoping for the sake of other buyers that mine was a bad one...



I don't get that at all with my Monk Lite 120.  What is your source?  How long did you burn them in?


----------



## gazzington

seanc6441 said:


> For me the monk lites have nothing really going for them other than form factor. That’s my opinion of course but if it wasn’t for the size which is handy for a sleeping bud, i’d never use them again.
> 
> Bass is very flabby, mids are smooth but veiled, treble isn’t high quality in detail or extension. Hoping for the sake of other buyers that mine was a bad one...


Is yours the 120 or 40?


----------



## waynes world (Apr 6, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> It just lacks clarity for me, it’s more balanced than the monk plus but lacks the personality that bud had. With the monk plus you could appreciate the dark signature and slightly artificial but airy treble. This time around I feel as though the monk lite is trying to be a jack of all trades but ultimately it is master of none. Also it doesn’t seem to scale well to a more powerful source despite being 120 ohm. I found it no different in quality being driven from my iphone 6s than my V20 in high impendance mode. I’ll burn it in to see if anything changes though.



Good impressions.

It's been a while since I'd listened to any of my 10 pairs of monk+'s lol, but I just did so now. I forgot how good they are! Due to their mid-bass bump, they are probably better for portable sources, and I agree that the 120's may not seem as impressive. But personally I find that the 120's scale very nicely with my portable amps (Fiio E12, Cayin C5 or C&C BH) where they come alive and seem to have enough clarity for me. Interestingly, after listening to the monk+'s amped for a while, I found the mid-bass to be a bit too much for me, but the 120's sounded juuuust right.

As usual, ymmv!


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 6, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I don't get that at all with my Monk Lite 120.  What is your source?  How long did you burn them in?


Still burning them in but I don’t usually expect night and day differences with burn in, only minor.

My source is LG V20, Iphone 6s and a notebook with onboard dac (sounds reletively balanced).

Unless I’m supposed to burn them in for 50+ hours before I hear a big change, I think what I’m hearing now is close to their best...

Maybe I got a ‘lemon’. It’s always possible. For reference does your monk lite sound as good as other buds under $20?


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> Good impressions.
> 
> It's been a while since I'd listened to any of my 10 pairs of monk+'s lol, but I just did so now. I forgot how good they are! Due to their mid-bass bump, they are probably better for portable sources, and I agree that the 120's may not seem as impressive. But personally I find that the 110's scale very nicely with my portable amps (Fiio E12, Cayin C5 or C&C BH) where they come alive and seem to have enough clarity for me. Interestingly, after listening to the monk+'s amped for a while, I found the mid-bass to be a bit too much for me, but the 120's sounded juuuust right.
> 
> As usual, ymmv!


From memory I actually thought that the monk plus bass was light enough to stop it losing control unless really forced by deep bass stuff, but was mid bass emphasised for sure which suited acoustic/vocal stuff better.

The monk lite has a more balanced bass response but on my one it’s very flabby and not tight at all especially if you throw any EDM at it. I mean I compared it to my ‘bass light’ diy pk2 and even that bud could handle it better.

Definitely seems like I didn’t get the best apple of the bunch, but maybe at this price range they cannot all be perfect. I’m still using it, and I’m not too mad that I don’t like it because well it’s $10 lol


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> From memory I actually thought that the monk plus bass was light enough to stop it losing control unless really forced by deep bass stuff, but was mid bass emphasised for sure which suited acoustic/vocal stuff better.
> 
> The monk lite has a more balanced bass response but on my one it’s very flabby and not tight at all especially if you throw any EDM at it. I mean I compared it to my ‘bass light’ diy pk2 and even that bud could handle it better.
> 
> Definitely seems like I didn’t get the best apple of the bunch, but maybe at this price range they cannot all be perfect. I’m still using it, and I’m not too mad that I don’t like it because well it’s $10 lol



hang on to it.... Lee has announced on the FB page that the only Monk Lite that will remain is the  40ohm as he is downsizing the current product line (to make room for new things?).so I guess availability will depend on what stock is left.  Same with some of the Monk Plus colors.

actually, if it is defective let him know ...  nicely... he might replace it.  I think you have to make a video of destroying the defective product.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Definitely seems like I didn’t get the best apple of the bunch, but maybe at this price range they cannot all be perfect. I’m still using it, and I’m not too mad that I don’t like it because well it’s $10 lol



Naw.. most likely I'm just a little nuts!


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> For reference does your monk lite sound as good as other buds under $20?



I think so, but I do not listen to EDM.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> I think so, but I do not listen to EDM.


Me neither but I used that as an example hehe

Some of my music has deep bass though, but EDM is the best for testing an earbuds extension


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Bass is very flabby, mids are smooth but veiled, treble isn’t high quality in detail or extension. Hoping for the sake of other buyers that mine was a bad one...



I didn't see this until now. Yes, you may have a dud, because mine don't sound like that (no matter how nuts I am!)


----------



## kw8910 (Apr 6, 2018)

waynes world said:


> I didn't see this until now. Yes, you may have a dud, because mine don't sound like that (no matter how nuts I am!)



Agreed, I like my Monk Lites more than DIY PK2 and EMX500. Smoother mids & highs, a little sub-bass light but still decent overall.. Wish I ordered a few more if they're really going to stop making them.


----------



## doggiemom

SweetEars said:


> http://www.rholupat.com/willsound-mk3.html
> 
> is this the same  or different???


If you look around the site that hosts the link you posted, you will see that there are 3 distinct Willsound products.



chinmie said:


> my most favorite is the MK2. if you like a warmer mids, than choose MK1. i haven't tried the MK3, but based on my friends, it has a brighter treble and leaner bass than MK2, tuned more for speed metal kind of song.


I'm probably in the minority here, but I actually prefer the MK1.  It is one of the few buds that I listen to straight out of my iPhone.  Even without amping, it has a big soundstage and excellent placement of instruments.


----------



## mbwilson111

doggiemom said:


> I'm probably in the minority here, but I actually prefer the MK1. It is one of the few buds that I listen to straight out of my iPhone. Even without amping, it has a big soundstage and excellent placement of instruments.



You are coming very close to selling me an MK1...just worried about the fit if it is a Monk shell.  Like I said I can wear that shell but it sometimes falls out.  I have to wait until Monday to try the MK2 as I assume my husband has it with him at work for the weekend.


----------



## doggiemom

mbwilson111 said:


> You are coming very close to selling me an MK1...just worried about the fit if it is a Monk shell.  Like I said I can wear that shell but it sometimes falls out.  I have to wait until Monday to try the MK2 as I assume my husband has it with him at work for the weekend.


Here are my MK1s, the Husband’s Monks with hooks (he uses them at the gym and they do fall out without the hooks), and a picture of some meatballs.  The cable on the MK1s is much lighter than the Monk cable, so maybe they won’t fall out as readily?


----------



## mbwilson111

doggiemom said:


> Here are my MK1s, the Husband’s Monks with hooks (he uses them at the gym and they do fall out without the hooks), and a picture of some meatballs.  The cable on the MK1s is much lighter than the Monk cable, so maybe they won’t fall out as readily?



That is a very confusing photo... the meatballs and the buds... lol.

For some reason the MK1 looks slightly smaller than the Monks but it could just be an illusion.  Oddly enough, I just finished eating some meatballs.  Forgot to eat earlier.  Happens a lot when my  husband is at work.  He doesn't let us forget to eat!


----------



## kw8910

mbwilson111 said:


> You are coming very close to selling me an MK1...just worried about the fit if it is a Monk shell.  Like I said I can wear that shell but it sometimes falls out.  I have to wait until Monday to try the MK2 as I assume my husband has it with him at work for the weekend.



How about these for fit: https://penonaudio.com/simphonio-dragon-2plus.html


----------



## mbwilson111

kw8910 said:


> How about these for fit: https://penonaudio.com/simphonio-dragon-2plus.html



The price does not fit!


----------



## Saoshyant

mbwilson111 said:


> The price does not fit!



You don’t need two kidneys


----------



## kw8910

mbwilson111 said:


> The price does not fit!



For every moment you crave steak or lobster, eat meatballs instead. Repeat 10x.


----------



## mbwilson111

kw8910 said:


> For every moment you crave steak or lobster, eat meatballs instead. Repeat 10x.



haha... I already do that.  Can't remember when I last had lobster.  I like meatballs... these were wagyu meatballs!


----------



## kw8910

nice... I'm just thinking how much gear I need to sell for those Dragon's. Probably everything I have and I still wouldn't have enough


----------



## ctaxxxx

Found I had one last Monk+ foam of the old kind. I know for sure I'm already going to miss them. My Diomnes have that additional treble presence and clarity back. I'm going to message VE to keep making them or sell me whatever they have left in stock!


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> the chart I was talking about is one that shows what the average hearing range is during each decade of life... you might be surprised how quickly it can roll off...


yep, and it goes faster if subjected to loud noise frequently. I've been silly enough in my younger years playing in a band without ear protection, now i carry ear protector in my bag all the time


doggiemom said:


> If you look around the site that hosts the link you posted, you will see that there are 3 distinct Willsound products.
> 
> 
> I'm probably in the minority here, but I actually prefer the MK1.  It is one of the few buds that I listen to straight out of my iPhone.  Even without amping, it has a big soundstage and excellent placement of instruments.



Naah, i don't think you're in the minority as many people (especially who love vocals) like the MK1 more. They are both equally great and choosing between them simply depends on preference. Can't go wrong with either of them


----------



## wskl

mbwilson111 said:


> You are coming very close to selling me an MK1...just worried about the fit if it is a Monk shell.  Like I said I can wear that shell but it sometimes falls out.  I have to wait until Monday to try the MK2 as I assume my husband has it with him at work for the weekend.



You might be interested to know that there is also the Willsound PK32 which uses the Yuin PK shell, the same shell as your NiceHCK DIY PK2.  I'm interested in this one since I prefer smaller shells but waiting to hear more info on them before buying.


----------



## seanc6441

Anyone else notice we’re at 2000 pages now? We can publish the book of earbuds now^^


----------



## chinmie

ctaxxxx said:


> Found I had one last Monk+ foam of the old kind. I know for sure I'm already going to miss them. My Diomnes have that additional treble presence and clarity back. I'm going to message VE to keep making them or sell me whatever they have left in stock!



Try this one 100 Pcs Black Sponge Earbud Headphone Cap Ear Pads Cover Replacement http://s.aliexpress.com/mI7vMvA7?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard

They are thin and similar to the monk foams, but a bit more stretch-ier. I like these better than the monk foams because the monk foams a bit itchy on the ear.
More importantly it's really cheap. You get a hundred for less than a dollar


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 6, 2018)

wskl said:


> You might be interested to know that there is also the Willsound PK32 which uses the Yuin PK shell, the same shell as your NiceHCK DIY PK2.  I'm interested in this one since I prefer smaller shells but waiting to hear more info on them before buying.


what?! where is that never saw that. I might get that one, I don’t love the mx500 shell much.



chinmie said:


> Try this one 100 Pcs Black Sponge Earbud Headphone Cap Ear Pads Cover Replacement http://s.aliexpress.com/mI7vMvA7?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard
> 
> They are thin and similar to the monk foams, but a bit more stretch-ier. I like these better than the monk foams because the monk foams a bit itchy on the ear.
> More importantly it's really cheap. You get a hundred for less than a dollar



I find them just a touch darker than the original ve foams. However, I also find them to retain more texture and do not ‘smooth’ out the sound as much. Also the bass is a little less in quantity so it sounds tighter.

Mind you these are all small differences. I definitely dislike the newer monk thin foams in comparison to these cheapo thins or the original monk thins though.

Interestingly, the monk lites came with what looks to be a different foam again, I’ll double check tomorrow. Somewhere in between the original thin and cheapo thin in feeling.

Seems lee is testing out different manufacturers? or different styles of foam?


----------



## doggiemom

chinmie said:


> Naah, i don't think you're in the minority as many people (especially who love vocals) like the MK1 more. They are both equally great and choosing between them simply depends on preference. Can't go wrong with either of them


I do love vocals!    I guess I am more of a "neutral to warm" versus "v-shaped" kind of gal.  Just ordered the new red version of the MK1.

Sorry about the meatballs, LOL!  My husband uses the Monks with a Bluetooth amp since he has an iPhone 7, and the amp was charging on the coffee table atop the latest edition of Bon Apetit.  I was too lazy to move everything to stage the picture nicely.


----------



## wskl

seanc6441 said:


> what?! where is that never saw that. I might get that one, I don’t love the mx500 shell much.



Rholupat do not have it in stock yet but I contacted Wong Kuan Wae on Facebook who is another Willsound distributor, he has it and quoted me $45 shipped.


----------



## mbwilson111

doggiemom said:


> I do love vocals!    I guess I am more of a "neutral to warm" versus "v-shaped" kind of gal.  Just ordered the new red version of the MK1.
> 
> Sorry about the meatballs, LOL!  My husband uses the Monks with a Bluetooth amp since he has an iPhone 7, and the amp was charging on the coffee table atop the latest edition of Bon Apetit.  I was too lazy to move everything to stage the picture nicely.



I love vocals too.  Singer songwriter stuff.  Acoustic.  Blues.  Rock, Folk, Indie, alternative... and any combinations of those....plus more...

ah that explains it... I thought they were sitting in your plate of meatballs.  I was a little worried... but actually it is a pretty cool shot.


----------



## chinmie

doggiemom said:


> I do love vocals!    I guess I am more of a "neutral to warm" versus "v-shaped" kind of gal.  Just ordered the new red version of the MK1.
> 
> Sorry about the meatballs, LOL!  My husband uses the Monks with a Bluetooth amp since he has an iPhone 7, and the amp was charging on the coffee table atop the latest edition of Bon Apetit.  I was too lazy to move everything to stage the picture nicely.



And I'm the kind of person who prefer the music served cold, squeaky clean mids, with the soundstage spread widely. But i do love some warm buds when listening to female vocals too (i have been listening to Agnes Obel all day yesterday with my Yinman) 

i just woke up and noticed your meatballs photo.. Now I'm hungry


----------



## ctaxxxx

chinmie said:


> Try this one 100 Pcs Black Sponge Earbud Headphone Cap Ear Pads Cover Replacement http://s.aliexpress.com/mI7vMvA7?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard
> 
> They are thin and similar to the monk foams, but a bit more stretch-ier. I like these better than the monk foams because the monk foams a bit itchy on the ear.
> More importantly it's really cheap. You get a hundred for less than a dollar



I'll try them. Thanks.


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> i have been listening to Agnes Obel all day yesterday with my Yinman



I love her music.  I listen to Citizen of Glass the most.


----------



## doggiemom

chinmie said:


> But i do love some warm buds when listening to female vocals too (i have been listening to Agnes Obel all day yesterday with my Yinman)


My husband says that all I listen to is lesbians with guitars.    (That is not true, BTW).  We went to see k.d. Lang a couple weeks ago.  She is touring for the 25th anniversary of Ingenue and performing the complete album.  Got to meet her and get a picture taken - it was fun, and she was really nice.  I love her voice!  She is in her 50s now and still pitch perfect - she doesn't even use IEMs on stage.


----------



## waynes world (Apr 6, 2018)

jrazmar said:


> I'm becoming more and more curious about this Willsound MK2. Still, the Liebesleid is still on its way and I don't want to itch my hand for another purchase.  Hope the Moondrop would give me the best reason not to purchase another buds soon. Still, I got the old Monks and wondering if the Diomnes Lv2 is in another or the same level with the Liebesleid. This curiosity never fades after all while one stays in this forum.



You know you have a problem when you have the Liebseleid's on the way, and still have the itch! 



chinmie said:


> Call me crazy, but i prefer the Willsound MK2 than the Diomnes Lv2



Oh boy. I haven't gotten my svara's yet, and here you are getting me itchy!



doggiemom said:


> My husband says that all I listen to is lesbians with guitars.    (That is not true, BTW).



LOL! Almost sprayed out my pale ale after reading that one.



> We went to see k.d. Lang a couple weeks ago.  She is touring for the 25th anniversary of Ingenue and performing the complete album.  Got to meet her and get a picture taken - it was fun, and she was really nice.  I love her voice!  She is in her 50s now and still pitch perfect - she doesn't even use IEMs on stage.



She is incredible.


----------



## HeadlessChicken

doggiemom said:


> I do love vocals!    I guess I am more of a "neutral to warm" versus "v-shaped" kind of gal.  Just ordered the new red version of the MK1.
> 
> *Sorry about the meatballs*, LOL!  My husband uses the Monks with a Bluetooth amp since he has an iPhone 7, and the amp was charging on the coffee table atop the latest edition of Bon Apetit.  I was too lazy to move everything to stage the picture nicely.



Sorry for OT, but never apologise for pics of food


----------



## larry piencenaves

just bought the headroom ms16, and i must say this is really good, very transparent and plenty of detail.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Okay, the niceHCK EBX begin to get into me, especially with warm mid centric source like the Ibasso D2+ BOA. Susanna Wallumrod last album sound quite mesmerizing and immersive, with excellent imaging and this sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet voice, its like rolling myself in a cotton field. Perfect for at home listen. APPROVED!


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

chinmie said:


> My balanced mmcx has arrived, and i tested some of my IEMs and earbuds with the ES100.
> the **** PT15 and Svara-L really have noticable improvement. The soundstage seems wider because separation of instruments are more clear, and bass also more focused and bigger sounding



+1 for **** PT15 balanced mode. I begin to love them because of that. Anybody will confirm this isn't snake oil this time, clarity and soundstage sure improve alot.


----------



## waynes world

Nymphonomaniac said:


> +1 for **** PT15 balanced mode. I begin to love them because of that. Anybody will confirm this isn't snake oil this time, clarity and soundstage sure improve alot.



I've been listening to the PT15's quite a bit lately. I need to boost the bass a bit for my preferences, but they are really quite good. Very much looking forward to getting a balanced cable (just have to figure out which one).


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac (Apr 6, 2018)

waynes world said:


> I've been listening to the PT15's quite a bit lately. I need to boost the bass a bit for my preferences, but they are really quite good. Very much looking forward to getting a balanced cable (just have to figure out which one).


Can't abstein myself. Must admit I switch the bass boost gain too on the Q1 MK2



PS: Can't believe this can be find for 8$ without cable.....the construction is SO refreshing! Put this in a Best Buy store and it will be priced 50$ IMO


----------



## SweetEars

chinmie said:


> Try this one 100 Pcs Black Sponge Earbud Headphone Cap Ear Pads Cover Replacement http://s.aliexpress.com/mI7vMvA7?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard
> 
> They are thin and similar to the monk foams, but a bit more stretch-ier. I like these better than the monk foams because the monk foams a bit itchy on the ear.
> More importantly it's really cheap. You get a hundred for less than a dollar


i received them as well.... they produce a  more sharper sound and forward vocals than the monk VE foams


----------



## vladstef (Apr 6, 2018)

Y'all need to stop it with PT15 praise... My customs lost a package that contained it AND Moondrop Nameless.

*insert suicidal thoughts


----------



## SweetEars

seanc6441 said:


> Try PK2 and Graphene with these two foam combo's.
> 
> 1) Ve Monk Thin + Heigi Donut on top
> 2) Ve monk thin + Ve monk thin "donut" (pinch and pull middle of monk foam and cut it to form a hole making it a donut foam.
> ...




i am using this mod ... it works wonders on the R4YS type of sound signatures  with extensions on both end .. and to some extent the clear graphenes sounds a bit slightly better as in more openness and transparency


----------



## Guggga

wskl said:


> Rholupat do not have it in stock yet but I contacted Wong Kuan Wae on Facebook who is another Willsound distributor, he has it and quoted me $45 shipped.



Is this quote for the willsound  pk32?


----------



## wskl

Guggga said:


> Is this quote for the willsound  pk32?



Yes


----------



## gazzington

kw8910 said:


> How about these for fit: https://penonaudio.com/simphonio-dragon-2plus.html


Can't afford them but anybody know what they're like?


----------



## kw8910

gazzington said:


> Can't afford them but anybody know what they're like?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1966#post-14134260


----------



## acap13

wskl said:


> Yes



Any impression of Willsound PK32 ? Afraid if am missing out of it


----------



## Harry_H

This is my setup, love the sound of liedesleid's


----------



## hung031086

My zen collection. Please don't ask me about comparison. I had no time to do that lolz.

Zen 2.0, Zen Lite, Zen Omega, Zen White.


----------



## wskl

acap13 said:


> Any impression of Willsound PK32 ? Afraid if am missing out of it



Sorry no impressions from me because I don't have them, I was just sharing some info about them earlier.


----------



## acap13

wskl said:


> Sorry no impressions from me because I don't have them, I was just sharing some info about them earlier.



Yes I knew that but I meant impression from other members from here or the other sites if you have ever coming across to one.


----------



## Danneq

redkingjoe said:


> Have you ever listened to sennheiser mx 985?
> 
> Which of the TOTL earbuds can match or beat mx 985?



I used to own it and sold it in 2016 (I think). I still own a pair of OMX980 (with ear hooks) and to my ears 980 and 985 sound the same.

MX985 is pretty neutral and a bit light on sub bass. Personally I like it. If you can find a pair for up to $200 you can give it a try. At around that price I might rather pick Shozy BK or CampFred 2, though...


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 7, 2018)

DIY PK2 is in my ears now (the lastest version from nicehck). This is the earbud that first impressed me as one of my earlier purchases from advice on this forum and I loved it at the time, but after upgrading I begin to notice things that weren’t as good as I thought... So I decided to go back to them to see if I could enjoy it again, using some of the 6 hole foams I cut for the masya/bs1. I was immediately more impressed than before. I was getting actual bass response thanks to the think foam, it’s slightly more mid bass than sub bass but it’s a clean tight bass response for most stuff I throw at it.

Of course the treble was always nicely extended on this, the 3 outer holes allow some clarity through but the rest covered keep it from getting too emphasised. Perfect!

The 3 centre holes unobstruct the mids, giving clear vocals with a similar tonality to my shozy BK only slightly less thick.

Soundstage isn’t huge but it’s not congested either, good separation and very decent imaging too. I was also getting depth in the soundstage which surprised me most as I was getting absolutely none of it with regular foams. I think distance from the ear canal is the cause here, it’s not jammed up against it thanks to the thick foam.

For $20 + Heigi full foams I’m thoroughly impressed. These are good drivers, just out of balance tonally in stock form. I think I’d gravitate to this over my Cygnus... It has a slightly leaner sound but with a slightly more extended treble and a tighter bass response. Depth is pretty even now, cygnus showing a little more imaging quality maybe, hard to tell.


----------



## chinmie

hung031086 said:


> My zen collection. Please don't ask me about comparison. I had no time to do that lolz.
> 
> Zen 2.0, Zen Lite, Zen Omega, Zen White.



I won't 

Which one do you like best though?


----------



## doggiemom

chinmie said:


> I won't
> 
> Which one do you like best though?


And why?


----------



## j4100

FiiO X5ii->RA2.0bl & Warp Core->Crow Audio Raven Mk2->My ears with All Them Witches - Death Of Coyote Woman = Bliss

I love the soft cable on these


----------



## -rowan-

mbwilson111 said:


> I have no use for another amp.  I would not use it.   I either use my desktop dac/amp with my PC or my tube amp in the living room fed by my better daps.   But mainly I like to be portable even around the house.  Whatever I use in this way has to be pocketable.
> 
> So I would want to get it on its own...is it worth the price if you just get the bud?



If the amp deal is still on, get it. (I did.) Think of it as getting the Zen Lite for $98 with a free RA Plus to do with as you wish - still costs less than getting the bud on its own 

I was ho-hum about the Zen Lite at first but it's growing on me. Part of it had to do with the fit - it's so small it wouldn't stay in my ears naked, even if it's tuned to sound best that way. But the $1 thin foams that Sean recommended changed that and it's now on rotation for bedtime bud duty. 

It's still a bit too rolled off at the top for my liking (but then again, the Asura 2.0s is my favourite from the VE line, which might tell you something about my preferences) but has a very generous, appealing low end. It may not be the fastest, most nimble bass in town but it's quick enough and has a very nice rumble and resonance that is getting to be quite addictive. 

I've no complaints about the RA Plus either. I have various portable amps as well as a tube amp for the desktop but it's always nice to have a spare. The Zen Lite needs some juice and I think the bundle offer is a smart decision by Lee to ensure that everyone who buys it early will get to hear it properly driven.


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> All Them Witches - Death Of Coyote Woman



I always like to check out new music....new to me....


----------



## mbwilson111

-rowan- said:


> If the amp deal is still on, get it. (I did.) Think of it as getting the Zen Lite for $98 with a free RA Plus to do with as you wish - still costs less than getting the bud on its own
> 
> I was ho-hum about the Zen Lite at first but it's growing on me. Part of it had to do with the fit - it's so small it wouldn't stay in my ears naked, even if it's tuned to sound best that way. But the $1 thin foams that Sean recommended changed that and it's now on rotation for bedtime bud duty.
> 
> ...



Why are you tempting me... are the buds actually worth the $98?  I feel like I do have some nice buds.  I can't wear any without foams though... just does not feel right.  As far a sound goes I would say mids/vocals are most important to me.  I don't like heavy boomy bass (gives me a headache) but I do like it to go low... especially if I play something that has actual sub bass.  I like my music to sound warm and full.  I have no idea if I am describing things correctly.  I have never felt that anything did not have enough highs.  I guess it depends on how they are done.  For example sometimes I cannot stand violins... and other times they sound nice... not sure what happens.

About the RA...  My best DAPs have around the same amount of power. .Does the RA Plus come with a power adaptor and a battery?  I was confused when I looked at the page last night.


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> Does the RA Plus come with a power adaptor and a battery?  I was confused when I looked at the page last night.



It comes with a power adapter, but not necessarily a battery, due to shipping issues with batteries. The battery cannot be charged with the power adapter. I bought the batteries and charger separately,  but will probably only use mine with warp core power pack. It has power for 20 to 30 hours. Transportable, not really portable as a duo, but suits my needs.



mbwilson111 said:


> I always like to check out new music....new to me....



All Them Witches have a Bandcamp page, so you can probably stream from there. Great band in the classic rock mould. I hope they're going to be massive, as the song writing talent is there.


----------



## -rowan-

mbwilson111 said:


> I don't like heavy boomy bass (gives me a headache) but I do like it to go low... especially if I play something that has actual sub bass.  I like my music to sound warm and full.  I have no idea if I am describing things correctly.  I have never felt that anything did not have enough highs.



This part, at least, makes me think that you might enjoy the Zen Lite. In fact, I'd say it describes the Zen Lite pretty well. That bass really is a pleasure and it extends far and deep - so far I can't say I've noticed it bottoming out. 
Though if mids are most important I'd point you to the Asura 2.0s. They're $20 cheaper too... 

I'm the opposite - I usualy like my buds without foams (except for the Masya and Monk Plus) but the Monk/Zen Lite shells are just too small to stay in my ears without them. The $1 foams offered the best compromise - even the thin VE foams took out too much air from the sound.

The RA Plus comes with a power adaptor (which I haven't actually tried) but isn't shipped with a battery - you'll have to supply your own but it's just the usual 9V battery.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 7, 2018)

.


----------



## mbwilson111

-rowan- said:


> The RA Plus comes with a power adaptor (which I haven't actually tried) but isn't shipped with a battery - you'll have to supply your own but it's just the usual 9V battery.



Good to know that it is a common replaceable battery..  With the power adaptor it could be a decent powered SS amp next to my recliner.  That is where my tube amp sits but I only use higher impedance headphones with that.

I love the fit of my Monk Lites... I have the 40 and the 120ohm


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 7, 2018)

-rowan- said:


> Though if mids are most important I'd point you to the Asura 2.0s. They're $20 cheaper too...



I looked those up... they have the bigger monk plus shell which is my least comfortable although I do use some buds that have that shell.  Reviews say the Asura is bass light... I don't like it too boomy or bloomy but I don't want it to be light.

I wonder  how the Zen Lite compares to the Monk Lite 120 soundwise.


----------



## hung031086

chinmie said:


> I won't
> 
> Which one do you like best though?


Of course Zen White, it has 8 wire pure silver and costs 2 times of Zen Black.


----------



## Carrow (Apr 7, 2018)

Question: what sort of foam setup should I use with JVC HAF10C buds? I picked them up today out of idle curiosity forgetting to bring any IEMs or buds with me when I left the house to go to a show in Dublin, 3.5 hours away from where I live. They sound decent, but the thing is they're butt naked and sound blown out to all hell with no covers on them. So: thin, thicc, donut or full; and with or without a rubber ring?


----------



## seanc6441

Carrow said:


> Question: what sort of foam setup should I use with JVC HAF10C buds? I picked them up today out of idle curiosity forgetting to bring any IEMs or buds with me when I left the house to go to a show in Dublin, 3.5 hours away from where I live. They sound decent, but the thing is they're butt naked and sound blown out to all hell with no covers on them. So: thin, thicc, donut or full; and with or without a rubber ring?


So treble is too harsh? Donuts.

Mids too shouty too? Full or Three hole foam.

Bass too boomy? Thin foam.


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> I love the fit of my Monk Lites... I have the 40 and the 120ohm



Well then.. The zen lite would complete the trifecta 



seanc6441 said:


> So treble is too harsh? Donuts.
> 
> Mids too shouty too? Full or Three hole foam.
> 
> Bass too boomy? Thin foam.



My version:

So treble is too harsh? Full or Three hole foam

Mids too shouty too? Donuts 

Bass too boomy? No foams

Like it the way it is but need a bit of bass? Thin foams


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> Well then.. The zen lite would complete the trifecta



...and then I would need to compose an appropriate photo.


----------



## Carrow

seanc6441 said:


> So treble is too harsh? Donuts.
> 
> Mids too shouty too? Full or Three hole foam.
> 
> Bass too boomy? Thin foam.



Not too sure what my issue is as I've used them sparingly today, but I'll experiment when I'm home tomorrow night and have my big-ass bag of earbud paraphernalia to test with. Feel like a pair of donuts will at least cool down the sound a little, so I'll start with that!


----------



## handwander

Has anyone had their ear "adapt" to bud discomfort over time? 

If I can't find a very comfortable position, with or without foams, after a day or so, is it a lost cause or should I give it more time?


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 8, 2018)

handwander said:


> Has anyone had their ear "adapt" to bud discomfort over time?
> 
> If I can't find a very comfortable position, with or without foams, after a day or so, is it a lost cause or should I give it more time?


I don’t think they will magically become comfortable buuut there is every chance you will find a way to position it right. Unless the bud is just physically too big for your ear.

Is it an mx500 shell earbud?


----------



## winterflood

how do you guys cleaning/sterilization(but safely) of  your bud? after exposed with sweat,dust, or second hand bud / after lent to your friends , currently im using dettol antiseptic + water then rinse them gently to plug-cable-housing is it good enough? or any best method to do this thing?


----------



## handwander

seanc6441 said:


> I don’t think they will magically become comfortable buuut there is every chance you will find a way to position it right. Unless the bud is just physically too big for your ear.
> Is it an mx500 shell earbud?



**** Tank. Not sure if the lack of a "stem" means fewer options for finding a comfortable position, or if the bud is just a bit larger than most. I'm interested in a few pricier options but don't want to blind-buy them, so trying to see if I can make these work before committing to anything else.


----------



## seanc6441

handwander said:


> **** Tank. Not sure if the lack of a "stem" means fewer options for finding a comfortable position, or if the bud is just a bit larger than most. I'm interested in a few pricier options but don't want to blind-buy them, so trying to see if I can make these work before committing to anything else.


They look quite large but looks can be deceiving. If it is large and similar to mx500 size shell, you can easily get smaller and have a much more comfortable fit.

I suggest yuin shell used in shozy earbuds, diy pk2, willsound pk32 etc. Very comfortable small fit. Has an ergonomic design to my ear and most have had excellent comfort with it.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 8, 2018)

winterflood said:


> how do you guys cleaning/sterilization(but safely) of  your bud? after exposed with sweat,dust, or second hand bud / after lent to your friends , currently im using dettol antiseptic + water then rinse them gently to plug-cable-housing is it good enough? or any best method to do this thing?


I don’t since I’m using foams, but you can use cleaning wipes I guess. Dettol makes some for antiseptic use. You can use it then wipe with a dry cloth after, no water needed.

Actually I did clean a second hand bud this way, cleaning wipes are the safest way as they don’t contain as much water so you don’t risk damaging the internals as much.


----------



## winterflood

seanc6441 said:


> I don’t since I’m using foams, but you can use cleaning wipes I guess. Dettol makes some for antiseptic use. You can use it then wipe with a dry cloth after, no water needed.
> 
> Actually I did clean a second hand bud this way, cleaning wipes are the safest way as they don’t contain as much water so you don’t risk damaging the internals as much.


cleaning wipes it is same with baby wipes? do they contain alcohol? i heard alcohol is bad for something like this


----------



## seanc6441

winterflood said:


> cleaning wipes it is same with baby wipes? do they contain alcohol? i heard alcohol is bad for something like this


like baby wipes exactly. I think the ones for skin are alcohol free, you can check I guess. They only contain some soapy substance but not too much of anything, great for cleaning anything without damaging the paint etc.

Be sure to get one that doesn’t have alcohol or harsh chemicals I guess, ones branded for babys or make up removal etc.


----------



## chinmie

isn't rubbing alcohol better as they evaporate quickly? baby wipes have  a bit of perfume and soap that leaves a bit residue


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> isn't rubbing alcohol better as they evaporate quickly? baby wipes have  a bit of perfume and soap that leaves a bit residue


hmm good point. I think you can get some less soapy ones but I’m not sure. As long as he does wet the driver I think it will be ok either way.


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> like baby wipes exactly. I think the ones for skin are alcohol free, you can check I guess. They only contain some soapy substance but not too much of anything, great for cleaning anything without damaging the paint etc.
> 
> Be sure to get one that doesn’t have alcohol or harsh chemicals I guess, ones branded for babys or make up removal etc.


Me thinks that you are just winging this answer.  

I've never done this as I always use foams and the thought of sharing earbuds with someone I wouldn't swap bodily fluids with grosses me out, but........ 70% isopropanol (rubbing alcohol) in water is sufficient to kill most anything.  I'd spray or pour some onto a lint free cloth then wipe the outsides to avoid getting liquid inside the shells.  Don't use acetone as it will strip the paint (it is the primary ingredient in nail polish remover).

Baby wipes have all sorts of weird moisturizers and fragrances that I wouldn't want on my buds:  https://ireadlabelsforyou.com/huggies-baby-wipes-safe-or-toxic/


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 8, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> Me thinks that you are just winging this answer.
> 
> I've never done this as I always use foams and the thought of sharing earbuds with someone I wouldn't swap bodily fluids with grosses me out, but........ 70% isopropanol (rubbing alcohol) in water is sufficient to kill most anything.  I'd spray or pour some onto a lint free cloth then wipe the outsides to avoid getting liquid inside the shells.  Don't use acetone as it will strip the paint (it is the primary ingredient in nail polish remover).
> 
> Baby wipes have all sorts of weird moisturizers and fragrances that I wouldn't want on my buds:  https://ireadlabelsforyou.com/huggies-baby-wipes-safe-or-toxic/



I'm offended :O 

I bought my shozy Cygnus and BK second hand. I have no problem using second hand stuff because I clean it thouroughly first. I don't clean buds I buy new as you say using foams kinda of prevents the need for that.

But I do clean something I cannot be sure was hygenic and that's when the wipes and cotton buds make an appearance^^

Not that the buds I got second hand were dirty but it gives me piece of mind that I wont get an ear infection this way.

I know some people refuse to use stuff that's not new because of hygene but personally I don't mind cleaning it myself when I'm getting a good deal 

The wipes I used were from dettol I think they are just called antiseptic or antibacterial wipes, it wasn't me who said I used baby wipes, I guessed they were similar. Although I think the ones I used contain more chemicals than soap but as long as you wipe it off with a damp cloth you're good to go.


----------



## chaiyuta

I always use Ethy Alcohol 70% v/v for wiping glasses, earbuds, iem, etc. They are fine without issue. In my experience, please avoid nail polish remover as same as Mrs. doggiemom mentioned.


----------



## waynes world

chaiyuta said:


> I always use Ethy Alcohol 70% v/v for wiping glasses, earbuds, iem, etc. They are fine without issue. In my experience, please avoid nail polish remover as same as Mrs. doggiemom mentioned.



Canadian Rye Whiskey works wonders


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 8, 2018)

waynes world said:


> Canadian Rye Whiskey works wonders


Is that for cleansing the throat? 



On another topic... Wayne what is the power like on the radstone earstudio? Can it drive high impendance earbuds in either SE or BAL?

Not for myself (although I should have just got it when you said I didn’t realise it was only $49... amazing value!) but for someone else in mind


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Is that for cleansing the throat?



I'm not sure exactly why or how it works. But after using it, everything sounds just a little bit better


----------



## doggiemom

waynes world said:


> Canadian Rye Whiskey works wonders


That's not 70%, but it has to be pretty close!


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Is that for cleansing the throat?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes it can


----------



## waynes world (Apr 9, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> On another topic... Wayne what is the power like on the radstone earstudio? Can it drive high impendance earbuds in either SE or BAL?
> 
> Not for myself (although I should have just got it when you said I didn’t realise it was only $49... amazing value!) but for someone else in mind



If it was $49, that must have been at the beginning of their kickstarter campaign, which would have been pretty much the equivalent of getting the BK's for $49 lol. It's still amazing value at the retail price of $99 (that I bought mine for), and is definitely one of the best "price to joy" quotient audio gizmo's I've bought.

Anyway, like chinmie says, yes it can drive high impedance earbuds. I don't know how it does it (Canadian Rye Whiskey perhaps?), but it easily drives the 320ohm Zen 1's in SE mode to very loud volumes, and even the 600ohm AKG Sextetts which at full volume on my S7 & Radsone, is as loud as I want it, and which somehow sounds amazingy good.


----------



## siderak

waynes world said:


> If it was $49, that must have been at the beginning of their kickstarter campaign, which would have been pretty much the equivalent of getting the BK's for $49 lol. It's still amazing value at the retail price of $99 (that I bought mine for), and is definitely one of the best "price to joy" audio gizmo's I've bought.
> 
> Anyway, like chinmie says, yes it can drive high impedance earbuds. I don't know how it does it (Canadian Rye Whiskey perhaps?), but it easily drives the 320ohm Zen 1's in SE mode to very loud volumes, and even the 600ohm AKG Sextetts which at full volume on my S7 & Radsone, is as loud as I want it, and which somehow sounds amazingy good.



+1 It drives my 300 ohm blurs, samsara, er4's(iem), even my he-500's and other full size cans. Fantastic device...


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 9, 2018)

waynes world said:


> If it was $49, that must have been at the beginning of their kickstarter campaign, which would have been pretty much the equivalent of getting the BK's for $49 lol. It's still amazing value at the retail price of $99 (that I bought mine for), and is definitely one of the best "price to joy" quotient audio gizmo's I've bought.
> 
> Anyway, like chinmie says, yes it can drive high impedance earbuds. I don't know how it does it (Canadian Rye Whiskey perhaps?), but it easily drives the 320ohm Zen 1's in SE mode to very loud volumes, and even the 600ohm AKG Sextetts which at full volume on my S7 & Radsone, is as loud as I want it, and which somehow sounds amazingy good.


Probably going to end up getting it to compliment my R6. I love the design on it. For me it just needs to power all my buds and it’ll serve it’s purpose nicely.

Speaking of vintage cans I was enjoying my HD540’s last night through my V20. Audio heaven... Well almost, still need to get them a balanced cable for my R6, inner foam filters are arriving soon and apply the filter paper for a slight high frequency dampening.

But the detail and timbre of these things... just amazing. I heard from a fellow who owns them that they were in a league with the K240 Sextetts and DT880 Monitors of the time. Three legendary headphones


----------



## teston

siderak said:


> +1 It drives my 300 ohm blurs, samsara, er4's(iem), even my he-500's and other full size cans. Fantastic device...


May I ask what gadget you guys are talking about?


----------



## seanc6441

teston said:


> May I ask what gadget you guys are talking about?


Radstone earstudio bluetooth dac/amp.


----------



## teston

seanc6441 said:


> Radstone earstudio bluetooth dac/amp.


Thanks mate. That looks interesting. I'll check it out. Very convenience device with bluethooth and 2.5mm balanced out.


----------



## seanc6441

teston said:


> Thanks mate. That looks interesting. I'll check it out. Very convenience device with bluethooth and 2.5mm balanced out.


Yep that was what intrigued me 2.5mm in that little device and the size being small enough to just stick in my pocket when I wanna listen to music on the go with my iphone 6s or attach to my clothes for workouts.

When Wayne first suggested it I wasn’t looking for a separate device but it turns out the size and convenience of it makes it ideal over any wired dac amp for phones in my eyes.


----------



## Raketen (Apr 9, 2018)

kw8910 said:


> For every moment you crave steak or lobster, eat meatballs instead. Repeat 10x.



The truly dedicated think in earbuds instead of currency. 1 lobster = 15 monk+? 1 months rent = 4 Mojitos + 6 DIY graphenes for utilities.


----------



## j4100

Raketen said:


> The truly dedicated think in earbuds instead of currency. 1 lobster = 15 monk+? 1 months rent = 4 Mojitos + 6 DIY graphenes for utilities.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Yep that was what intrigued me 2.5mm in that little device and the size being small enough to just stick in my pocket when I wanna listen to music on the go with my iphone 6s or attach to my clothes for workouts.
> 
> When Wayne first suggested it I wasn’t looking for a separate device but it turns out the size and convenience of it makes it ideal over any wired dac amp for phones in my eyes.



Yeeesss..  Buuuyy theeeem....


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> Yeeesss..  Buuuyy theeeem....


Which is better sound wise?


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Which is better sound wise?



The DFR of course, but the ES100 bluetooth mobility benefits also counts as high points. When I'm stationary at home (at computer desk or lying in bed) i use the DFR


----------



## hatranle

Guys 
I have NiceHCK EBX ( SE earbud) with cable mmcx connector and Single end. Can I change cable mmcx connector and balanced 2.5 mm to make NiceHCK EBX become balanced earbud
Tks


----------



## teston

hatranle said:


> Guys
> I have NiceHCK EBX ( SE earbud) with cable mmcx connector and Single end. Can I change cable mmcx connector and balanced 2.5 mm to make NiceHCK EBX become balanced earbud
> Tks


Sure things. You can use EBX with the mmcx cable terminated with balanced 2.5mm plugs (I think that most detachable headphones using mmcx and 2pin can be used with balanced cable. Of course there are some exception I know of like AKG K712 or Q701 that using 3 pin connector, they require some modding to 4pin first).


----------



## hatranle

@teston thank you for quick reply


----------



## larry piencenaves

eq tweaked the ms16 via poweramp like this, sounds really good.


----------



## siderak

teston said:


> May I ask what gadget you guys are talking about?



It's the radsone earstudio
https://www.amazon.com/EarStudio-ES100-High-Resolution-Bluetooth-Headphone/dp/B078H4YD2L

everything about it is awesome.
you can even eq tidal!


----------



## siderak

siderak said:


> It's the radsone earstudio
> https://www.amazon.com/EarStudio-ES100-High-Resolution-Bluetooth-Headphone/dp/B078H4YD2L
> 
> everything about it is awesome.
> you can even eq tidal!



you can use the es100 as a dac not just bluetooth. it has balanced outs too!


----------



## Saoshyant

Kind of getting a bit off topic as this isn't the earstudio thread.

Looks like the Poseidon is out of customs, so with any luck I should have it by the weekend.  Really curious to see how it sounds as I don't have any memory of trying a K earbud, so not familiar with the house sound.


----------



## subwoof3r

Hi guys,

Just received my pair of Fengru DIY EMX500S today!

After 9 hours of proper burn-in (approx.), here is my quick impressions compared to Blox BE3 (first rev).

BE3 sounds more coherent from mids to highs (female vocals looks a bit better on BE3 due to this).

MX500S has a much fuller sounds due to his impressive sub-bass (probably the first time I heard real sub-bass into earbuds, incredible!). EMX500S looks to have upper-mids a bit boosted which may sounds a bit bright sometimes. Also, highs are more forwarded than BE3, which could be a bit aggressive/irritating after few hours of listening.

EMX500S is more analytical.

BE3 is definitely lacking sub-bass, but bass is OK.

EMX500S soundstage is very impressive and huge, the best I have ever heard from an earbud. Is is extremely large, a bit if we are in the middle center of the scene. BE3 has definitely much less overall soundstage (I would say it’s more in the classic earbuds soundstage) even it’s not like we are in front of two speakers of course.

MX500S is definitely more V shaped. Until now, this is the first earbuds that “wow” affected me at first sight.

BE3 has overall a bit lower volume sound (normally both earbuds has 32ohms).

Comfort is the exact same since it’s both the exact same shells.

Overall I would say I definitely now more enjoy EMX500S sound. This is for now my next king of earbud, clearly.

Can’t wait to receive my Willsound earbuds to make a quick comparative also.

Sorry for my English (hope this is a bit understandable) 

Cheers’


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Continuing sharing my evolving toughs about the Nicehck EBX, listening right now to Madeleine Peyroux on my Ibasso DX90.

Firstly, I find the right fitting, feel dumb, the picture of product suggest to wear it this way:





And the over ear is the wearing stye that stay still the best. And NOW I can really enjoy the real potential of these musical epiphany.
Mid centric, female signer sound awesome in a ultra wide soundstage, they are fowards but without displeasant treble, from all (cheaper) earbuds the EBX sure sound from another league in this area. Just can't stop listening to all my favorite signer.
Bass is finally more beefier that I was thinking, it have weight and thickness, good punch that can be feel, driver need to be the nearer to your ear hole it can possibly be and stay there. Bass go quite deep for an earbuds and never distort or bleed on the mids (like the MX500 for example). Texture is sweet, not grainy.
Highs have beautifull brilliance to it, classical guitar, harp and harpsichord sound incredible and have a beautifull decay to it, they are neither harsh or too analytical, but you get plenty of details to enjoy!
Soundstage and layering are out of this world, you can dig deep in it and instrument separation feel really realist. 
For me, listening to EBX is like listening to a great open back headphones in a very portable format.

Love story begin. A KEEPER.


----------



## HungryPanda

The EBX are most certainly a great earbud


----------



## chellity

subwoof3r said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Just received my pair of Fengru DIY EMX500S today!
> 
> ...



Just received my 2nd set of emx500s (with mic, on sale) and also have willsound mk2 with the new mk1 on the way.  I would have to say that willsounds are the next upgrade up from the emx500s with a very similar balanced / bassy sound!  So, i'm sure youll love the willsounds.  Good note about the emx500s soundstage, its so huge to me it almost felt exaggerated.  I noticed this on Jane Says...never heard such a huge sound stage from an earbud on this song, I think.  The willsounds is most definitely a cut above the emx500s, for not much more money...it just has the correct timbre and resolution for the price.  I have my emx500s with mic for phonecalls and biking around or running, and will have keep my willsounds for walking around with the cayin n3, or home with the schiit stack


----------



## nick n

chellity said:


> Just received my 2nd set of emx500s (with mic, on sale) and also have willsound mk2 with the new mk1 on the way. * I would have to say that willsounds are the next upgrade up from the emx500s* with a very similar balanced / bassy sound!



^ do you mean the Willsound MK2 here in bold?  I get so lost with all these crazy names haha
Your comment about timbre caught my eye


----------



## chellity

nick n said:


> ^ do you mean the Willsound MK2 here in bold?  I get so lost with all these crazy names haha
> Your comment about timbre caught my eye



Yeah, I can speak for the older mk2s with the clear/silver cable. Apparently the new version of mk2s with black cable are only better though, and even the mk1s with a more fun sound might be good too.  That's why I have the new mk1s on the way at least


----------



## djdelarosa25

Has anyone here experienced using the Headroom MS16? How was it?


----------



## j4100

There was a review posted over in head gear on Saturday.


----------



## HungryPanda

djdelarosa25 said:


> Has anyone here experienced using the Headroom MS16? How was it?


https://audiobudget.com/product/Headroom/MS16


----------



## djdelarosa25

HungryPanda said:


> https://audiobudget.com/product/Headroom/MS16



Igor mentioned that the bass is punchy while others state it is anemic. I know you have/had a pair of these, as I've read. Can you elaborate?


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 10, 2018)

djdelarosa25 said:


> Igor mentioned that the bass is punchy while others state it is anemic. I know you have/had a pair of these, as I've read. Can you elaborate?


It can depend on the fit and foams used greatly. Bass quality and extension is important as quantity can be tweaked by foams considerably.

I usually like bass to be balanced and enough quantity so I can use a loose seal for better airy sound. But if its not enough you can use some foam tricks to add quantity effectively for most earbuds.

But if the bass isn't deep enough or good quality it won't magically get better.


----------



## Saoshyant

Even with heavy EQ the MS16 doesn't really get that much bass, but I wouldn't say it's anemic.  There are certainly better options for bass if that's your goal.


----------



## seanc6441

Selling my cygnus in the FS section in case anyone here is interested 

EU buyers for now.


----------



## djdelarosa25

Saoshyant said:


> Even with heavy EQ the MS16 doesn't really get that much bass, but I wouldn't say it's anemic.  There are certainly better options for bass if that's your goal.


No, bass isn't my goal. I was just worried there wouldn't be any presence. I was looking for earbuds that give a clear, detailed, and balanced sound (earbuds because IEMs make my eardrums hurt during extended listening sessions). Would the MS16 be a good choice, or are there better options?


----------



## seanc6441

djdelarosa25 said:


> No, bass isn't my goal. I was just worried there wouldn't be any presence. I was looking for earbuds that give a clear, detailed, and balanced sound (earbuds because IEMs make my eardrums hurt during extended listening sessions). Would the MS16 be a good choice, or are there better options?


Nicehck DIY PK2 with multi hole heigi foam is my current favourite in the budget category, but that can be overcomplicated to cut and in stock foam pk2 isn’t in the best balance (leans towards mid/treble emphasis and light bass. But with the tweak I find it the most balanced and neutral of all the buds I heard in the budget range.

But for an easier option you can try Auglamour RX1 which I have myself.

or if you want to try buds others have been recommending maybe the Willsound MK2.


----------



## Saoshyant

If you’re looking for a starter option as the MS16 is under $10, then it’s a reasonable place to start for your tastes as it’s a fairly balanced earbud.


----------



## djdelarosa25

seanc6441 said:


> Nicehck DIY PK2 with multi hole heigi foam is my current favourite in the budget category, but that can be overcomplicated to cut and in stock foam pk2 isn’t in the best balance (leans towards mid/treble emphasis and light bass. But with the tweak I find it the most balanced and neutral of all the buds I heard in the budget range.
> 
> But for an easier option you can try Auglamour RX1 which I have myself.
> 
> or if you want to try buds others have been recommending maybe the Willsound MK2.


All of the buds you mentioned aren't available here in my country :/


----------



## HungryPanda

The Willsound MK2 is anything but neutral


----------



## djdelarosa25

Saoshyant said:


> If you’re looking for a starter option as the MS16 is under $10, then it’s a reasonable place to start for your tastes as it’s a fairly balanced earbud.


I joined a Facebook group of audiophiles and they recommend the EMX500s, VE Monk+, FAAEAL Snow Lotus 2.0, and the Vido earbuds. What do you think?


----------



## Saoshyant

djdelarosa25 said:


> I joined a Facebook group of audiophiles and they recommend the EMX500s, VE Monk+, FAAEAL Snow Lotus 2.0, and the Vido earbuds. What do you think?



I don't have experience with the Snow Lotus, and only have experience with the EMX500 but not the EMX500S.  The EMX500 is relatively balanced, and has a wonderful sound for it's price, one I feel is an easy recommendation for most.  Monk+ due to it's low cost and solid balanced performance for the price is also easy for me to recommend, but many find that after a bit with that one they move onto other sounds as they learn what they prefer among earbuds.  For a bassier sound, the Vido is a very easy recommendation, but as you're not actively seeking bass, it might not suit you.  Keep in mind that earbud bass can be considered anemic compared to IEMs and full size headphones, so what may be considered bassy like the Vido might be more balanced for someone not used to earbuds in general.


----------



## djdelarosa25

Saoshyant said:


> I don't have experience with the Snow Lotus, and only have experience with the EMX500 but not the EMX500S.  The EMX500 is relatively balanced, and has a wonderful sound for it's price, one I feel is an easy recommendation for most.  Monk+ due to it's low cost and solid balanced performance for the price is also easy for me to recommend, but many find that after a bit with that one they move onto other sounds as they learn what they prefer among earbuds.  For a bassier sound, the Vido is a very easy recommendation, but as you're not actively seeking bass, it might not suit you.  Keep in mind that earbud bass can be considered anemic compared to IEMs and full size headphones, so what may be considered bassy like the Vido might be more balanced for someone not used to earbuds in general.


I see, thanks a lot for your reply  I already ordered the MS16, I won't be cancelling it anymore. The open-back design really amazed me and was what really pulled me into buying it. I really want a pair of decent open-back headphones, but unfortunately, I'm still a student. Here's to hoping that the MS16 will serve as a budget alternative.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 10, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> The Willsound MK2 is anything but neutral


whaaa... that’s what was said above :/

thanks for clarifying though. May pass on it then. I was under the impression it was neutral/balanced.


----------



## HungryPanda

Tin Audio T2 is what I call neutral/balanced, MS16 is in that category


----------



## HungryPanda (Apr 10, 2018)

I am under the impression the Willsound MK1 is more balanced. The EMX500s is more in line with that kind of sound signature


----------



## seanc6441

djdelarosa25 said:


> All of the buds you mentioned aren't available here in my country :/


Sorry :/

Where are you hoping to buy from? aliexpress is what I use and it ships for free and I never get charged import fee’s.


----------



## chinmie

djdelarosa25 said:


> All of the buds you mentioned aren't available here in my country :/



You're from the Philippines right? I think you should be able to find those options that Sean suggested locally. I mean even the willsound have a special PH edition. Try find them from your local earbud community



seanc6441 said:


> whaaa... that’s what was said above :/
> 
> thanks for clarifying though. May pass on it then. I was under the impression it was neutral/balanced.



Now.. where do you read that anyone ever said they're balanced/neutral? 



HungryPanda said:


> Tin Audio T2 is what I call neutral/balanced, MS16 is in that category



Yup. Agreed. Other than that, the best option i can think of is the **** PT15. Balanced and also open backed



HungryPanda said:


> I am under the impression the Willsound MK1 is more balanced. The EMX500s is more in line with that kind of sound signature



MK1 is MK2 with warmer sound. The 300ohm is the one that can be considered balanced


----------



## Saoshyant

The PT15 might be too anemic to really be considered balanced.  It shares some qualities with Ety HF5.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 10, 2018)

chinmie said:


> MK1 is MK2 with warmer sound.



What does this mean exactly?  If I listen to my husband's MK2, how might I expect the MK1 to differ?  What difference would I find with male and female vocals or acoustic intruments?  Would one of them be less likely to cause listener fatigue?  I don't like to analyze my music.  I like to feel it.


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> You're from the Philippines right? I think you should be able to find those options that Sean suggested locally. I mean even the willsound have a special PH edition. Try find them from your local earbud community
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In my dreams apparently


----------



## doggiemom

mbwilson111 said:


> What does this mean exactly?  If I listen to my husband's MK2, how might I expect the MK1 to differ?  What difference would I find with male and female vocals or acoustic intruments?  Would one of them be less likely to cause listener fatigue?  I don't like to analyze my music.  I like to feel it.


To me, warmer means a more mid-centric, analogue sound.  I think the MK1 are better for vocals.  Female vocals, at least...... since we already established that I apparently only listen to lesbians with guitars.    Both have decent but not overpowering bass.  Treble is what generally fatigues me, but neither of the Wilsounds are fatiguing (at least to my ears).


----------



## seanc6441

It’s quite funny I know exactly what to listen for when I hear warmth but I’d have a hard time describing what it is exactly!

I can take a guess to say it’s got to do with the mid bass to low mid frequencies being emphasised beyond neutral. That’s where most of that warmth seems to reside to my ears.

Of course others consider warmth a bass boost and treble roll off signature. But I have many buds that are neutral and extended in the treble but still warm overall. But that warmth is usually coming from the bass and low mids.

All I know is it sounds good to my ears when there’s a little warmth in there


----------



## chinmie

Saoshyant said:


> The PT15 might be too anemic to really be considered balanced.  It shares some qualities with Ety HF5.



It's about the same as my ER4XR in bass (which is already considered boosted bass compared to the other Etys) , although extension doesn't reach too deep to sub bass like the ER4XR or thr Tinaudio T2

i have 3 PT15 so far, all of them sound the same, and i never find them anemic or lacking in bass, even when i do the tape mod on the vent (which actually reduces mid bass and mid thickness more, giving it a more scooped sound) 

Also earbuds in general will usually have thicker mids than their IEMs counterpart, because it sits farther outside the ears compared to IEMs


----------



## Saoshyant

@chinmie Anemic tends to be an adjective used based off taste, which I’m not someone who would own any high end Ety and sold my HF5.  If it helps, I more prefer earbuds like Vido, Svara L, Edimun Rhodium, Masya, Zen 1, both CamFreds, you get the idea.  Compared to them the pt15 can come off as bass-light.


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> What does this mean exactly?  If I listen to my husband's MK2, how might I expect the MK1 to differ?  What difference would I find with male and female vocals or acoustic intruments?  Would one of them be less likely to cause listener fatigue?  I don't like to analyze my music.  I like to feel it.





doggiemom said:


> To me, warmer means a more mid-centric, analogue sound.  I think the MK1 are better for vocals.  Female vocals, at least...... since we already established that I apparently only listen to lesbians with guitars.    Both have decent but not overpowering bass.  Treble is what generally fatigues me, but neither of the Wilsounds are fatiguing (at least to my ears).





seanc6441 said:


> It’s quite funny I know exactly what to listen for when I hear warmth but I’d have a hard time describing what it is exactly!
> 
> I can take a guess to say it’s got to do with the mid bass to low mid frequencies being emphasised beyond neutral. That’s where most of that warmth seems to reside to my ears.
> 
> ...



@doggiemom soo...no lesbians with pianos then? 

doggiemom and sean describe warmth on point. it's the characteristics that usually comes when we play music through a tube/valve amp or mosfet transistors.


----------



## chinmie

Saoshyant said:


> @chinmie Anemic tends to be an adjective used based off taste, which I’m not someone who would own any high end Ety and sold my HF5.  If it helps, I more prefer earbuds like Vido, Svara L, Edimun Rhodium, Masya, Zen 1, both CamFreds, you get the idea.  Compared to them the pt15 can come off as bass-light.



on the opposite side  i prefer treble and mid clarity more, and always prefer using the thinnest foam possible (unless the treble is too piercing). but strangely i like using the svara and vido with thick foams. the bass vibration is therapeutic


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> on the opposite side  i prefer treble and mid clarity more, and always prefer using the thinnest foam possible (unless the treble is too piercing). but strangely i like using the svara and vido with thick foams. the bass vibration is therapeutic


I love absolute clarity and detail in the mids and treble but I’m a sucker for that warmth you get in the lower frequencies on some buds. Although it has to be tastefully done and not bloomy or slow paced.

Of course I think a variety of different signatures is refreshing too


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> I love absolute clarity and detail in the mids and treble but I’m a sucker for that warmth you get in the lower frequencies on some buds. Although it has to be tastefully done and not bloomy or slow paced.
> 
> Of course I think a variety of different signatures is refreshing too



that's why we have more than one. no matter how good our earbuds/iems or headphones, can't live with just one sound


----------



## doggiemom

chinmie said:


> @doggiemom soo...no lesbians with pianos then?
> .


Is Missy Higgins a lesbian?  I honestly do not know (never felt compelled to Google it), but she plays the piano and sings and I do like her a lot.


----------



## silverfishla

doggiemom said:


> Is Missy Higgins a lesbian?  I honestly do not know (never felt compelled to Google it), but she plays the piano and sings and I do like her a lot.


No, she is not.  In fact, her new song is about how she met her guy.  She's got a kid too. Nothing wrong with either though, people got to live their lives.


----------



## j4100

doggiemom said:


> To me, warmer means a more mid-centric, analogue sound.  I think the MK1 are better for vocals.  Female vocals, at least...... since we already established that I apparently only listen to lesbians with guitars.    Both have decent but not overpowering bass.  Treble is what generally fatigues me, but neither of the Wilsounds are fatiguing (at least to my ears).



Agreed.

On the female singer / songwriter front, you should get a listen to Emma Ruth Rundle (ex Red Sparowes). She has a Bandcamp page.


----------



## Guggga

seanc6441 said:


> I love absolute clarity and detail in the mids and treble but I’m a sucker for that warmth you get in the lower frequencies on some buds. Although it has to be tastefully done and not bloomy or slow paced./
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## groucho69

chinmie said:


> It's about the same as my ER4XR in bass (which is already considered boosted bass compared to the other Etys) , although extension doesn't reach too deep to sub bass like the ER4XR or thr Tinaudio T2
> 
> i have 3 PT15 so far, all of them sound the same, and i never find them anemic or lacking in bass, even when i do the tape mod on the vent (which actually reduces mid bass and mid thickness more, giving it a more scooped sound)
> 
> Also earbuds in general will usually have thicker mids than their IEMs counterpart, because it sits farther outside the ears compared to IEMs



PT15 and White Stripes blows off the top of my head


----------



## seanc6441

Still using the DIY PK2 all day today 

That's when I know it's good. The TOTL earbuds have not needed to make an appearance yet.


----------



## doggiemom

silverfishla said:


> No, she is not.  In fact, her new song is about how she met her guy.  She's got a kid too. Nothing wrong with either though, people got to live their lives.


True dat!  I got into this audiophile hobby because I love music (and I'm guessing that is the same path that many here took to Head-fi)....  as long as it moves me (or has a catchy hook!) I don't care what the people who make it do with their private lives.  (Unless it is, like, Ted Nugent or Kid Rock).  I'm really excited about the new Rhye album.  The singer is a guy, but sounds like a woman, and their album covers and lighting for their concerts (haven't been lucky enough to go myself, so this is according to NPR) intentionally leave the singer androgynous.  Their music is sexy as hell.  To bring this back on topic, warm buds (like the Wilsound MK1) pair really well with their music.



j4100 said:


> Agreed.
> 
> On the female singer / songwriter front, you should get a listen to Emma Ruth Rundle (ex Red Sparowes). She has a Bandcamp page.


Thank you for the recommendation!  I'll try to find my Bandcamp password,  but I see she is on Tidal, so I'll give it a listen right away!


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Well..................................
Not bad either!!!!!!!!


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

seanc6441 said:


> Still using the DIY PK2 all day today
> 
> That's when I know it's good. The TOTL earbuds have not needed to make an appearance yet.


Link of the Very one you have?


----------



## doggiemom (Apr 11, 2018)

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Well..................................
> Not bad either!!!!!!!!


I still have a Walkman, though it is tough to find tapes for.  I like the beep beEp BEEp tones at the start of the EMI recordings.

Confession time:  I do not use earbuds with my walkman.  I use those foamy over the ear things.  (Never got into the Sony Sport thing).  But I do think I will try this weekend, although I only have 3 tapes.  (Corey Hart’s boy in the box is the only one popping right now, but I will check).

Edited to say:  I remembered, it is Debbie Gibson’s eclectic youth.


----------



## chinmie

doggiemom said:


> I still have a Walkman, though it is tough to find tapes for.  I like the beep beEp BEEp tones at the start of the EMI recordings.
> 
> Confession time:  I do not use earbuds with my walkman.  I use those foamy over the ear things.  (Never got into the Sony Sport thing).  But I do think I will try this weekend, although I only have 3 tapes.  (Corey Hart’s boy in the box is the only one popping right now, but I will check).
> 
> Edited to say:  I remembered, it is Debbie Gibson’s eclectic youth.



Don't forget to break out those roller skates and headband too


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac (Apr 12, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> I still have a Walkman, though it is tough to find tapes for.  I like the beep beEp BEEp tones at the start of the EMI recordings.
> 
> Confession time:  I do not use earbuds with my walkman.  I use those foamy over the ear things.  (Never got into the Sony Sport thing).  But I do think I will try this weekend, although I only have 3 tapes.  (Corey Hart’s boy in the box is the only one popping right now, but I will check).
> 
> Edited to say:  I remembered, it is Debbie Gibson’s eclectic youth.



Hehe, what the walkman you have?
I'm in search of a nice one since I find like....30 tapes of deutsche gramophon label classical music...for my 1 year old child. Yep, tape is very practical for kids, in the sens it sturdy and easy to use.
And this semi-cheap radioshack (made in china) tape deck doesnt sound as bad as one would think Way less hissing than with my old 90's walkman hehe (they were garbage tough!).

All this to say that perhaps you will be impress by how good an earbuds can sound with such analog warm audio source! I like to experiement strange anachronical pairing of this type, cause the result can be like the ying and yang: harmonious contradiction! (like clear analytical source with warn Portapro or warm source with EBX!)



PS:https://tapeheadcity.com/


----------



## SweetEars (Apr 12, 2018)

just got my EMX-500S .. testing for 5 mins now.. All i can say the sound signature is in between the EMX 500 original and the clear graphene

sweetish treble .with impactful bass punch and sub bass punch  but and with more transparency and holographic quality. same articulated quality of the original emx 500

more in yr head/ behind head signature than forward..but mids arent recessed

it will be a while before i do a proper review


----------



## djdelarosa25 (Apr 12, 2018)

Since my MS16s haven't shipped yet, I do have the option of cancelling it and buying another earbud. People have recommended the EMX500, EMX500s, VE Monk+, Monk+ Espresso, FAAEAL Snow Lotus 2.0, Vido, Yodja, etc. I'm no audiophile, but I want a balanced sound signature with forward mids and highs but a good bass presence. I also want a wide soundstage. Good build quality is also very nice. What would you recommend?

(I can't audition them as I live far away from the capital of my country (the only place where you can get decent stuff))


----------



## seanc6441

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Link of the Very one you have?


DIY PK2 cable version 3 (copper colour)
http://s.aliexpress.com/INVFFBnQ

Heigi full foams (multi hole is a ‘DIY’ job)
http://s.aliexpress.com/eiueqmQn


----------



## chinmie

djdelarosa25 said:


> Since my MS16s haven't shipped yet, I do have the option of cancelling it and buying another earbud. People have recommended the EMX500, EMX500s, VE Monk+, Monk+ Espresso, FAAEAL Snow Lotus 2.0, Vido, Yodja, etc. I'm no audiophile, but I want a balanced sound signature with forward mids and highs but a good bass presence. I also want a wide soundstage. Good build quality is also very nice. What would you recommend?
> 
> (I can't audition them as I live far away from the capital of my country (the only place where you can get decent stuff))



price? try the VX Pro


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 12, 2018)

djdelarosa25 said:


> Since my MS16s haven't shipped yet, I do have the option of cancelling it and buying another earbud. People have recommended the EMX500, EMX500s, VE Monk+, Monk+ Espresso, FAAEAL Snow Lotus 2.0, Vido, Yodja, etc. I'm no audiophile, but I want a balanced sound signature with forward mids and highs but a good bass presence. I also want a wide soundstage. Good build quality is also very nice. What would you recommend?
> 
> (I can't audition them as I live far away from the capital of my country (the only place where you can get decent stuff))


Do you favour sub bass or mid bass? Or a balanced bass response?

I’m still going to recommend the pk2s! It’s got mid bass quantity but sub bass is a little subdued, however it’s enough for every genre except heavy EDM. Thanks to it’s tight control even bassy tracks never sound ‘off’ or lose control.

To my ears the soundstage is medium sized and the presentation is forward. But it’s wide! I hear lovely space between ‘panning’ audio from one ear to the other. More than most budget earbuds.

Treble and mids are clear and forward and very neutral. Extended upper frequencies are excellent because it’s never harsh but you don’t miss any details.

You need the hiegi multi foam trick to balance the sound and add depth and some space to the soundstage. I also added some extra foam tape under the bottom of the cover to help the fit and add some seal for sub bass. But that’s not a necessary mod it’s only something I did because I used it before of my bs1 with success.


----------



## djdelarosa25

chinmie said:


> price? try the VX Pro



$10-$15


----------



## djdelarosa25

seanc6441 said:


> Do you favour sub bass or mid bass? Or a balanced bass response?
> 
> I’m still going to recommend the pk2s! It’s got mid bass quantity but sub bass is a little subdued, however it’s enough for every genre except heavy EDM. Thanks to it’s tight control even bassy tracks never sound ‘off’ or lose control.
> 
> ...



Midbass 

Thank you for your recommendation! I saw one listing on an online shop here, will definitely check it out


----------



## seanc6441

djdelarosa25 said:


> $10-$15


Pk2 is $18-20 for cable version 3. Can you stretch to that?

If you need sub bass quantity you could choose another bud, if it’s just all round balance for every genre pk2s will fit the bill.


----------



## seanc6441

djdelarosa25 said:


> Midbass
> 
> Thank you for your recommendation! I saw one listing on an online shop here, will definitely check it out


As it’s a DIY bud i suggest buying the Nicehck DIY PK2 (cable option 3) on aliexpress. Other versions could sound completely different...


----------



## chinmie

djdelarosa25 said:


> $10-$15



if you're not treble sensitive, try the Edifier H185, it has a wide stage, although not too deep. one of the best clarity under 20 dollars for me


----------



## subwoof3r

djdelarosa25 said:


> $10-$15


EMX500S should be (I guess) definitely the best choice due to your every single recommendations.


My EMX500S are now fully burned and all I can say is that I’m totally amazed by these !

The only think I can complain is that they sound a bit “unnatural” to me. They also lack a bit of transparency (not sure if it’s due to this extremely huge soundstage).

For now they are definitely still my best earbuds (still waiting to receive my Willsound pairs).

I experimented a lot between foams and best result is when it’s equipped with stock full foams that comes with. They have the right density which accommodates perfectly to the EMX500S. Too much density foams especially muffle details in mids and highs, and donut foams could fatigue listening experience due to it’s exaggerated mids/highs. The stock full foams are the right choice (I guess it’s not for nothing that they came with these) for very long listening experience. They calm a bit the “bright” side without affecting sub-bass, which is nice.

EMX500S is an amazing budget earbuds which should be definitely more considerate here. It’s a great all-rounder which performs very well in almost all records (to me), especially for the price. These buds are just a miracle.

I did not knew EMX500 before the “S” version so can’t compare (no plan to buy the none S version).

It has many qualities that earbuds for MUCH higher prices even does not have (sub-bass especially and soundstage).

I’m hesitating to rebuy another pair, or to try the DIY PK2 that seanc6441 recommended just above (but the lack of sub-bass on earbuds is now a no go back for me). Also, I guess that with the Willsound ones, I will have already 3 nice earbuds that will cover my needs for a new very long time.

Btw, @seanc6441 did you tried EMX500S yet ? would love a quick comparison with your DIY PK2


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 12, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> EMX500S should be (I guess) definitely the best choice due to your every single recommendations.
> 
> 
> My EMX500S are now fully burned and all I can say is that I’m totally amazed by these !
> ...


Only the emx500 variant. My opinion is they both excell at different things. Pk2 is more neutral and natural tonality. Better extended treble, smaller soundstage but wide with good imaging.

EMX500 is more U shaped, deep bass and sparkly highs, but a little more artificial sounding.

Really they compliment each other nicely. The pk2 didn’t get an ‘s’ variant but the recent version nicehck sells is definitely an improvement.

If you get the pk2 it will slot in nicely with emx500 for acoustic/vocal and jazz or rock. Where’s emx will do EDM, electronic/pop music better.

The reason I praise this pk2 with hiegi foam so highly is because it’s the most neutral earbud I’ve heard at the price and even above.

It’s really like a mini shozy bk in many ways, but a leaner lower midrange that’s actually more neutral possibly.

I like to compare to my sennheiser hd540 reference ii as a... reference/neutral signature and the diy pk2 gives me the same signature just with less soundstage and dynamics. It’s a $18 earbud after all.

But I’ve just bought 2 more diy pk2’s and a pack of hiegi foams to give to people and keep one for myself obviously! That’s how much I appreciate the sound.


----------



## SweetEars

subwoof3r said:


> EMX500S should be (I guess) definitely the best choice due to your every single recommendations.
> 
> 
> My EMX500S are now fully burned and all I can say is that I’m totally amazed by these !
> ...




just got my  EMX 500S yesterday.I also have EMX 500 first version.. i guess they haven't burned in yet.. how many hours do u recommend and the method. burning source used?

here  are the difference i noticed with the EMX500 and 500s

Soundstage = 500s> 500
Treble/ sparkle = 500> 500s
Midbass = 500s > 500
Subbass = 500s=500
Mids= 500s > 500

EMX500s havent been burned in yet.. so i expect some changes later


----------



## djdelarosa25

seanc6441 said:


> Only the emx500 variant. My opinion is they both excell at different things. Pk2 is more neutral and natural tonality. Better extended treble, smaller soundstage but wide with good imaging.
> 
> EMX500 is more U shaped, deep bass and sparkly highs, but a little more artificial sounding.
> 
> ...



Well, I don't really listen to EDM and pop. I listen to mostly classical rock, progressive rock, hard rock, disco, etc. Maybe the EMX500s aren't for that genre?


----------



## chinmie

djdelarosa25 said:


> Well, I don't really listen to EDM and pop. I listen to mostly classical rock, progressive rock, hard rock, disco, etc. Maybe the EMX500s aren't for that genre?



it would do that just fine. the RY4S is also nice alternative to Vido and EMX500


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 12, 2018)

djdelarosa25 said:


> Well, I don't really listen to EDM and pop. I listen to mostly classical rock, progressive rock, hard rock, disco, etc. Maybe the EMX500s aren't for that genre?


It can be used for any genre if you enjoy it! That’s just my preference from the sound signature being suited to those genres. If you like emx500s for the genres you listen to that’s all that matters.


----------



## subwoof3r (Apr 13, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Only the emx500 variant. My opinion is they both excell at different things. Pk2 is more neutral and natural tonality. Better extended treble, smaller soundstage but wide with good imaging.
> 
> EMX500 is more U shaped, deep bass and sparkly highs, but a little more artificial sounding.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I like natural and analogue sounding earbuds, so it might interests me. I will wait for the Willsound's and see if I order one (of not satisfied enough with them). In the past, I really enjoyed Yuin PK1 for vocals/jazz, excellent sounding for this kind of music, but for all other it was not so good (especially in details and highs).
I really would love to see this famous new flagship from Blox which should be already released since many months now. I hope Blox is still alive as they do stunning earbuds (I miss my TM7 but I guess there is a lot better and cheaper earbuds nowadays).





SweetEars said:


> how many hours do u recommend and the method. burning source used?


I generally burn all my earbuds using the same method: plugged to my Fostex HP-A8C, I put high quality noise pink sound (recorded by AMR) in continuous at middle/high volume. And I alternate with some EDM music (like Electro Swing streaming at 320kbps) at normal (slightly high) volume, which is pretty good to wake nicely drivers and make them work properly on all frequencies.
I let burn 24/7 in continous for few days (7 days should be enough / almost 200 hours).


----------



## chinmie

subwoof3r said:


> I really would love to see this famous new flagship from Blox which should be already released since many months now



I'm lucky enough to have a chance to listen to the prototype. the soundstage (like all blox) is amazing


----------



## Danneq

chinmie said:


> I'm lucky enough to have a chance to listen to the prototype. the soundstage (like all blox) is amazing



I have waited for it since around 2013. Bought TM7 in 2012 and loved it. Although I find that current TOTL earbuds such as CampFred and Shozy BK are better in some aspects. The soundstage on TM7 is really quite nice. Not huge but it feels very 3D.


----------



## H.L. (Apr 13, 2018)

introduce a very excellent Earbud.

T-Music Version 1
https://aliexpress.com/item//32686800517.html
V1 is similar to the EMX500. Slightly higher sound quality than EMX500.

T-Music Version 2
https://aliexpress.com/item//32728603685.html
V2 is upgrade version of Yincrow X6 and Vido.
The bass of this earphone is similar to X6, the treble is cleaner than X6.
I like this the most. Most popular in Japan.

T-Music Version 3
https://aliexpress.com/item//32861375849.html
V3 reduced the bass of V2 and increased treble.

(I attached a donut earpad to these earphones and listened to music.)

-----

Recently, new products of T-Music have been released.

T-Music Version 4
https://aliexpress.com/item//32862305398.html

T-Music Version 5
https://aliexpress.com/item//32862696536.html


----------



## mbwilson111

H.L. said:


> introduce a very excellent Earbud.
> 
> T-Music Version 1
> https://aliexpress.com/item//32686800517.html
> ...



I was interested in V2 until I saw the ridiculous shipping fee.


----------



## H.L.

mbwilson111 said:


> I was interested in V2 until I saw the ridiculous shipping fee.


Is your shipping fee high in your country?
Delivery to my country is free.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 13, 2018)

H.L. said:


> Is your shipping fee high in your country?
> Delivery to my country is free.



It was $10 for the bud plus $32 shipping via EMS to the UK

All other shipping from aliexpress has been free for us with china post.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> It was $10 for the bud plus $32 shipping via EMS to the UK
> 
> All other shipping from aliexpress has been free for us with china post.


I see a free shipping option on aliexpress to Ireland. Maybe they updated the shipping options?


----------



## HungryPanda

nope £23.39 EMS to UK and no way to change shipping method


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 13, 2018)

Very odd to have select countries with free shipping and others without. Luck of the Irish?

On a side note, I love how the listing states ‘recommended’ LMAO... Seller recommends his product


----------



## chinmie

HungryPanda said:


> nope £23.39 EMS to UK and no way to change shipping method



might be best just send them to @seanc6441 then have him send it to you


----------



## HungryPanda

just won't buy them..... simple


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 13, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Very odd to have select countries with free shipping and others without. Luck of the Irish?
> 
> On a side note, I love how the listing states ‘recommended’ LMAO... Seller recommends his product



Did you order it?  I wanted the one with the blue cable. I wonder if the seller is aware of the shipping issue.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Did you order it?  I wanted the one with the blue cable. I wonder if the seller is aware of the shipping issue.



No I’m not buying it for now, was just checking it out as I never heard of the model line before.


----------



## nofrio

So, i am a total noob regarding earbuds and need some advice. 

I am looking for something precise, not bright, with good, precise bass, but not overpowering and for easy home listening, not fatiguing.

Something like a earbud version of a  ETY ER4XR (love them) with a little more bass and a little less treble up top. I have been looking some shozys, penon, and TY Hi-Z earbuds. If you guys could give some suggestions up to 100 U$ dollars i would be glad. 

Sorry for the bad english (not my first language).


----------



## chinmie

nofrio said:


> Something like a earbud version of a ETY ER4XR



the only ones i can think of is the **** PT15 and Puresounds 500, but the staging presentation are different.


----------



## seanc6441

nofrio said:


> So, i am a total noob regarding earbuds and need some advice.
> 
> I am looking for something precise, not bright, with good, precise bass, but not overpowering and for easy home listening, not fatiguing.
> 
> ...


@chinmie has ER4XR and loves it so maybe he will know 

Edit: I’m too late he’s way ahead of me lol


----------



## Guggga

nofrio said:


> So, i am a total noob regarding earbuds and need some advice.
> 
> I am looking for something precise, not bright, with good, precise bass, but not overpowering and for easy home listening, not fatiguing.
> 
> ...



Check out reviews and thoughts about the TY hi-z 650 HP on this thread. Needs a powerful source though.


----------



## SweetEars

subwoof3r said:


> EMX500S should be (I guess) definitely the best choice due to your every single recommendations.
> 
> 
> My EMX500S are now fully burned and all I can say is that I’m totally amazed by these !
> ...



what are the differences before and after burn-in?


----------



## subwoof3r

SweetEars said:


> what are the differences before and after burn-in?


Can't tell because I did not spend much time "before", but I believe it opened up bass, and mids section especially.

Btw, my EMX500S pair came with red full foams pre-installed, but the included set of foams is all black, you too?
I just installed black ones to see, sound looks to be the same, they are just the same density (which is cool). Personally they looks (physically) better with black foams.


----------



## Saoshyant (Apr 13, 2018)

My K's Poseidon just arrived, a few days before I was expecting, I need to find a proper case for these as holy crap they'r beautiful.

Listened to a song I'm quite familiar with, and honestly not sure I noticed something in the background of that song before, so I'd have to say the detail retrieval is quite high.  Also, beautiful cable, but as it's terminated in 4.4mm, I'm using https://smile.amazon.com/MEE-audio-CMB-BAL-SET-Universal-balanced/dp/B076PWSSSJ/ that I picked up once I bought this earbud.  I should look into a couple high quality adapters from 4.4mm.


----------



## Carrow

Ordered a pair of K's 64 from AK earlier.


----------



## waynes world (Apr 13, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> The Svara L is a deep dark powerhouse, I'm listening to Marillion's Afraid of Sunlight album with them right now and am being bashed around the ears





chinmie said:


> I like using them over ear, but regular down position works nice too.
> 
> I hope you'll  like it, it is one of the buds that i like very much, both the sound and looks



Once I got a proper seal/fit with the donuts, it became quite apparent that the 32ohm Svara L's rock.  I am wearing them over ears (1st buds that actually stay in that way for me), and am listening to some EDM. I was a bit concerned that "being bashed around the ears" with the bass might be too much for me, and although the bass is indeed strong, it is beautiful (with a great treble presentation to boot). I look forward to trying them with other genres and wearing them down. But so far, mission very much accomplished!

Thanks guys!


----------



## Saoshyant

I really should pick up the 32ohm Svara for comparison as I love the original.


----------



## HungryPanda

@waynes world so glad you like them


----------



## Saoshyant

K’s Poseidon


----------



## chinmie

Saoshyant said:


> My K's Poseidon just arrived, a few days before I was expecting, I need to find a proper case for these as holy crap they'r beautiful.



Congrats! You bought zeta's, right? Then that's the one that i auditioned. Great buds! 



waynes world said:


> Once I got a proper seal/fit with the donuts, it because quite apparent that the 32ohm Svara L's rock.  I am wearing them over ears (1st buds that actually stay in that way for me), and am listening to some EDM. I was a bit concerned that "being bashed around the ears" with the bass might be too much for me, and although the bass is indeed strong, it is beautiful (with a great treble presentation to boot). I look forward to trying them with other genres and wearing them down. But so far, mission very much accomplished!
> 
> Thanks guys!



You're welcome! Glad you like it. To be honest now you make me itching on purchasing the 32ohm version too


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 13, 2018)

Saoshyant said:


> K’s Poseidon


Is that a fully open vent on the back in the shape of ‘poseidons trident’?

Unreal...

That’s some earbud... Could be worth a fortune in years to come if you keep it well.


----------



## Carrow

seanc6441 said:


> Is that a fully open vent on the back in the shape of ‘poseidons trident’?
> 
> Unreal...
> 
> That’s some earbud... Could be worth a fortune in years to come if you keep it well.



What they did there, I see it.


----------



## HungryPanda

chinmie said:


> Congrats! You bought zeta's, right? Then that's the one that i auditioned. Great buds!
> 
> 
> 
> You're welcome! Glad you like it. To be honest now you make me itching on purchasing the 32ohm version too


----------



## Saoshyant

It certainly appears to be an open vent, and the bass at first made me think I had my EQ up.  Svara L can most likely push harder, but it’s close.


----------



## seanc6441

Saoshyant said:


> It certainly appears to be an open vent, and the bass at first made me think I had my EQ up.  Svara L can most likely push harder, but it’s close.


How’s the treble? is it rolled off or nicely extended.


----------



## Saoshyant

I have a horrible ear for treble with zero sensitivity.  I’ll test more tomorrow as I work early and wanted to watch the Lost in Space pilot.  I know I suck.


----------



## seanc6441

Saoshyant said:


> I have a horrible ear for treble with zero sensitivity.  I’ll test more tomorrow as I work early and wanted to watch the Lost in Space pilot.  I know I suck.


You’re okay! Go enjoy it 

This thread isn’t going anywhere we can wait until tomorrow ^^


----------



## SweetEars (Apr 13, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> Can't tell because I did not spend much time "before", but I believe it opened up bass, and mids section especially.
> 
> Btw, my EMX500S pair came with red full foams pre-installed, but the included set of foams is all black, you too?
> I just installed black ones to see, sound looks to be the same, they are just the same density (which is cool). Personally they looks (physically) better with black foams.



yeah i got the same exact thing as yours...but i am using the black foams form aliexpress which i bought 100 pcs for a dollar .. they resemble the monk thin foams but thicker in material..

i believe like the emx500 it needs burn in ..  i noticed a significant difference with the emx500 after some usage for a few months


----------



## waynes world

Saoshyant said:


> I really should pick up the 32ohm Svara for comparison as I love the original.





chinmie said:


> You're welcome! Glad you like it. To be honest now you make me itching on purchasing the 32ohm version too



@DBaldock9 too! It would be great to get some comparisons, that's for sure.

Anyway, it's been a long hard road in finding any buds that compete (for me) with the old graphenes, but these suckers are awesome and seem to be doing it for me 



HungryPanda said:


> @waynes world so glad you like them



Thanks. Hopefully they don't end up being gateway-drug-buds, leading me to ever more expensive TOTL buds (who am I kidding - they will!).


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> How’s the treble? is it rolled off or nicely extended.



@seanc6441, how do you personally test "rolled off versus nicely extended"? I'd like to find out if I can even tell the difference (which I doubt, because I'm 110 years old lol).


----------



## DBaldock9

Guggga said:


> Check out reviews and thoughts about the TY hi-z 650 HP on this thread. Needs a powerful source though.



I've got the TY Hi-Z HP650 (2.5mm TRRS), and have found that it's got good Bass, and a bit of a recessed Midrange & Treble.
The Svara-L (115Ω) has a similar sound signature.  It has MMCX connectors, and I usually have them on a 2.5mm TRRS -> MMCX cable.


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> @seanc6441, how do you personally test "rolled off versus nicely extended"? I'd like to find out if I can even tell the difference (which I doubt, because I'm 110 years old lol).



the best clue for me is the cymbals. try listening to some clean jazz music, if the the cymbals sounds shimmery enough for me, then it's nicely extended..but if you feel it's missing something up the top and left you wanting more, it's rolled off for me



DBaldock9 said:


> I've got the TY Hi-Z HP650 (2.5mm TRRS), and have found that it's got good Bass, and a bit of a recessed Midrange & Treble.
> The Svara-L (115Ω) has a similar sound signature.  It has MMCX connectors, and I usually have them on a 2.5mm TRRS -> MMCX cable.



agree on this  they do sound similar. i still favor the Svara even when the 650 is amped (personal preference)


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 13, 2018)

waynes world said:


> @seanc6441, how do you personally test "rolled off versus nicely extended"? I'd like to find out if I can even tell the difference (which I doubt, because I'm 110 years old lol).


Well you are doing something right to be alive that long ;P

I’m 23 and can hear up to around 16.5khz (As far as I can remember doing the frequency test).

Well I usually listen for cymbals crashes etc in songs I know well, after hearing them on a headphone/earbud I know has extended treble I compare to the earbud in question. Lately I’m comparing to my HD540 which I know has a well extended treble. If you hear the cymbal crash but it doesn’t linger or sparkle then the treble isn’t up to the par for me 

Of course some buds have an emphasis in treble but a quicker roll off whilst others have more neutral treble with a slower roll off. It’s difficult enough to tell the difference in any random song but the tracks you know by heart makes it a little easier. Anything similar to my test gear is well extended to my ears.

To be honest I’m testing by ear so I don’t mind if it’s not perfectly neutral or extended beyond 17khz because I cannot hear that far.

It’s just some earbuds roll of dramatically and lose that sparkle at the top end which I really like. For me the ‘painful’ piercing treble is actually the lower or mid treble region being overly emphasised. I don’t mind a small peak at 10-16khz as it usually comes off as sparkly rather than harsh.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 13, 2018)

@chinmie exactly! It’s the cymbals in Jazz etc that give the best indication. If the cymbals are painful I know the treble has a peak somewhere that’s too harsh, if it’s light and sparkly or as you say it shimmers, it’s perfect!

It has to be music you know though, something you’ve heard on many different gear so you know when it sounds ‘right’ or not.

For me personally I’m more sensitive to lower treble/upper mid peaks than upper treble. So I don’t like overaly ‘bright’ sounding gear but I love treble extension and an ‘airy’ sound.


----------



## DBaldock9

chinmie said:


> the best clue for me is the cymbals. try listening to some clean jazz music, if the the cymbals sounds shimmery enough for me, then it's nicely extended..but if you feel it's missing something up the top and left you wanting more, it's rolled off for me
> 
> ~~~
> _DBaldock9 said: ↑
> ...



The Svara-L does seem to have a bit more clarity in the Mid-Bass and Midrange.
Plus they look cool, being in a custom housing, rather than a common MX500 shell.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> @chinmie exactly! It’s the cymbals in Jazz etc that give the best indication. If the cymbals are painful I know the treble has a peak somewhere that’s too harsh, if it’s light and sparkly or as you say it shimmers, it’s perfect!
> 
> It has to be music you know though, something you’ve heard on many different gear so you know when it sounds ‘right’ or not.
> 
> For me personally I’m more sensitive to lower treble/upper mid peaks than upper treble. So I don’t like overaly ‘bright’ sounding gear but I love treble extension and an ‘airy’ sound.



i also like Radiohead 's Pablo Honey and The Bends album for cymbal check, Incubus' s Switchblade song for sibilance check, and Korn's Insane song for overall/general frequency test


----------



## chinmie

DBaldock9 said:


> Plus they look cool



This is also one of the important factor


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> i also like Radiohead 's Pablo Honey and The Bends album for cymbal check, Incubus' s Switchblade song for sibilance check, and Korn's Insane song for overall/general frequency test





chinmie said:


> i also like Radiohead 's Pablo Honey and The Bends album for cymbal check, Incubus' s Switchblade song for sibilance check, and Korn's Insane song for overall/general frequency test


I have many test tracks but I’m too lazy to list them tonight, maybe tomorrow 

Right off to bed, maybe some relaxing tunes beforehand.


----------



## Saoshyant

Ok, will test with the bends after work.  I’m 39 and the last test was around 16.5k for treble, but I’ve never heard anything in treble that causes discomfort so I must be lucky.


----------



## chinmie

Saoshyant said:


> Ok, will test with the bends after work.  I’m 39 and the last test was around 16.5k for treble, but I’ve never heard anything in treble that causes discomfort so I must be lucky.



yup, we're in the same age and treble response range


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> yup, we're in the same age and treble response range


And I’m the same too for the hearing test, although I do not think you NEED to hear much if anything  beyond 16khz to enjoy extended treble. It’s more about the response remaining neutral up to that point and you can enjoy every detail.


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> And I’m the same too for the hearing test, although I do not think you NEED to hear much if anything  beyond 16khz to enjoy extended treble. It’s more about the response remaining neutral up to that point and you can enjoy every detail.



Which test do you use?


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 14, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Which test do you use?


Youtube search ‘frequency test’ and you’ll see the topmost or second result will be a frequency test from 20-20000hz. Good way to test drivers for any issues also like rattling.

It just plays a tone and raises through the frequencies showing you a graph and info in the video too. You can use it to test when the sub bass kicks in ( most of my buds start at around 25-35hz) and when the treble fades out/your hearing reaches its limit.



here it is actually


----------



## mbwilson111

Will check it out later. I hope I do better than a previous one that I tried.  I am older than wayne...so,120?


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> Will check it out later. I hope I do better than a previous one that I tried.  I am older than wayne...so,120?



Oh dear. I think I'm probably older than both of you so... maybe 130?

I haven't had a hearing test in years. Maybe I should consider doing one.


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## j4100

^^
That's my young brother.

Currently enjoying the Mien debut album with my Willsound Mk2 buds. Not the latest batch with the black cable though. A great all-rounder.

 http://mien.bandcamp.com/album/mien


----------



## Matarro

I'm 38, is that over or under 100 in head fi years? Anyway, I got something between 16 and 17k but I'm on a train so it's a bit noisy. I'm required to test my hearing every third year for my job, I think one is coming up soonish. I have abused my ears a lot with industry jobs and loud music but they seem durable, that's good because I'm afraid they're past the warranty.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Youtube search ‘frequency test’ and you’ll see the topmost or second result will be a frequency test from 20-20000hz. Good way to test drivers for any issues also like rattling.
> 
> It just plays a tone and raises through the frequencies showing you a graph and info in the video too. You can use it to test when the sub bass kicks in ( most of my buds start at around 25-35hz) and when the treble fades out/your hearing reaches its limit.
> 
> ...




Huh, I find it quite difficult to gauge using that test. Not sure why. 

"The Test File"  in the below link works well for me though, and I (sadly) fall somewhere in between 12-13:

https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_frequencycheckhigh.php




Matarro said:


> I'm 38, is that over or under 100 in head fi years? Anyway, I got something between 16 and 17k but I'm on a train so it's a bit noisy. I'm required to test my hearing every third year for my job, I think one is coming up soonish. I have abused my ears a lot with industry jobs and loud music but they seem durable, that's good because I'm afraid they're past the warranty.



You young punks! Wait until you hit 40:


----------



## fairx

I really need to try those t-music v2 since (from my reading) it's quite popular in Japan. The description of sound sig perhaps similar to sharp MD. And sharp MD really can do justice on many Japan tightly layered pop track IMO. 

My current test track is Hikari by Yuuka Aisaka. Very hard to separate vocals from instrument unless the bud is good. On  ie80 iem the track really shines though (just for comparison)


----------



## ShabtabQ

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Can't abstein myself. Must admit I switch the bass boost gain too on the Q1 MK2
> 
> 
> PS: Can't believe this can be find for 8$ without cable.....the construction is SO refreshing! Put this in a Best Buy store and it will be priced 50$ IMO




Recommended me  blanaced cable too, but I'm budget tight also.


----------



## Narayan23

chinmie said:


> i also like Radiohead 's Pablo Honey and The Bends album for cymbal check, Incubus' s Switchblade song for sibilance check, and Korn's Insane song for overall/general frequency test



I love Radiohead, do you know where the inspiration for the "Pablo Honey" album title came from? Believe it or not the Jerky Boys:



Spoiler


----------



## Saoshyant (Apr 14, 2018)

Using the signal frequency video, for my ears I can hear 30 hz to about 15.5k with the Poseidon.  Now, back to actual music.

Treble doesn't strike me as overly splashy on cymbals, so it sounds fairly neutral to my ears.  It doesn't have the PT15 or CampFred energy to it.  Nothing about the treble however feels insufficient to my ears.  I'm by no means a treble-head, but certainly don't mind it either.  I'm happy with the overall balancing of the Poseidon which might be described as L shaped for an earbud, at least by my early impressions.


----------



## DBaldock9

ShabtabQ said:


> Recommended me  blanaced cable too, but I'm budget tight also.



Depending on whether your earbuds have a 2-pin or MMCX connector, you can still get the very soft & flexible VE Espresso cable for US$10 (+shipping) - https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=16


----------



## Carrow

Hoping my Rose Masya set will be here early next week!


----------



## Saoshyant

One thing about Poseidon.  For an earbud it's weighty, and it feels a bit large, so there very well could be comfort issues for quite a few of you.  They by no means disappear in my ears like many other earbuds, so full day wearing for me may not be a realistic option.


----------



## SweetEars

fairx said:


> I really need to try those t-music v2 since (from my reading) it's quite popular in Japan. The description of sound sig perhaps similar to sharp MD. And sharp MD really can do justice on many Japan tightly layered pop track IMO.
> 
> My current test track is Hikari by Yuuka Aisaka. Very hard to separate vocals from instrument unless the bud is good. On  ie80 iem the track really shines though (just for comparison)


i not sure if i am correct the emx500 and R4YS can separate vocals from instruments well...just not pronounced like some expensive buds


----------



## SweetEars

fairx said:


> I really need to try those t-music v2 since (from my reading) it's quite popular in Japan. The description of sound sig perhaps similar to sharp MD. And sharp MD really can do justice on many Japan tightly layered pop track IMO.
> 
> My current test track is Hikari by Yuuka Aisaka. Very hard to separate vocals from instrument unless the bud is good. On  ie80 iem the track really shines though (just for comparison)


any links to read about them?


----------



## waynes world

Saoshyant said:


> One thing about Poseidon.  For an earbud it's weighty, and it feels a bit large, so there very well could be comfort issues for quite a few of you.  They by no means disappear in my ears like many other earbuds, so full day wearing for me may not be a realistic option.



You young punks might be able to hear higher frequencies, but apparently also have wimpy ears that can't handle a wee bit of weight! 

Just kidding! That's good to know (for those wimps out there of course lol).


----------



## phower

waynes world said:


> Huh, I find it quite difficult to gauge using that test. Not sure why.
> 
> "The Test File"  in the below link works well for me though, and I (sadly) fall somewhere in between 12-13:
> 
> ...



Human speech is between 100 to 10kHz. Most musical instruments are between 50 -13kHz. Only Cymbals go upto 16kHz. It is not strictly necessary to have perfect hearing in order to enjoy music.


----------



## artpiggo

https://penonaudio.com/simphonio-dragon-2plus.html

Any impression on this?


----------



## ShabtabQ (Apr 15, 2018)

Current price of diy PK2 is $20 + shipping from NiceHCK, should I get it, or does it come in discounts? And **** PT15 vs the PK2, which is the better sounding one, or suggest any best buys, will use the fiio Q1 mkii as source.


----------



## winterflood

I want to ask anyone who has shozy cygnus , white sphere on cygnus whether it's a spliter or slider? i bought shozy cygnus and white sphere at middle cable can slide up and down , i thought it was spliter anybody has same with me? or its only me?


----------



## Raketen

artpiggo said:


> https://penonaudio.com/simphonio-dragon-2plus.html
> 
> Any impression on this?



ClieOS posted some impressions on this thread recently. Only ones I've seen so far.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 15, 2018)

ShabtabQ said:


> Current price of diy PK2 is $20 + shipping from NiceHCK, should I get it, or does it come in discounts? And **** PT15 vs the PK2, which is the better sounding one, or suggest any best buys, will use the fiio Q1 mkii as source.


I still need to wait for my cable to arrive to try the PT15 but I absolutely love the DIY PK2 with the mods I’ve done.

Everything about it is in balance and of good quality. Bass is tight and has a lovely warmth to the mid bass that’s tastefully done and not overpowering, if I remember correctly the Q1 has a bass boost feature? I’d be turning it ON here. The earbud can handle EQ the bass doesn’t lose any quality and once you EQ up the sub bass there is an actual solid bass line to be heard.

Mids and vocals are neutral but very detailed imo. Nearing the Rose Masya and slightly edging out the RX1 for texture but slightly more exposed than the silky smooth rx1. Not at all grainy though. Instruments sound precise and natural in timbre. Again the texture is there and shows in guitar and other string instruments the most.

Treble is my favourite aspect here, it’s neutral and extended. It’s not overly bright but very airy and pronounced at the very top. Excellent for Jazz and the cymbals sound very crisp and sparkly. Detail is in abundance here.

Soundstage lacks depth without the heigi foams, with them it’s medium depth. It’s the width that impresses me. Lovely wide separation and great imaging at this price. Sounds are both intimate when needed and spaced out when the song demands it. Better width than most earbuds I own.

It’s been 5 days since I started using these with heigi foams with multi hole and I still love them. The sound especially tastey on my iphone 6s, the synergy is just right. The bass is just so satisfying once I bumped the 60 hz region by 1 db on spotify. Although with a proper EQ I’d be gradually raising from 60-10hz by 1-2 db to get the bass to hit lower.


----------



## seanc6441

winterflood said:


> I want to ask anyone who has shozy cygnus , white sphere on cygnus whether it's a spliter or slider? i bought shozy cygnus and white sphere at middle cable can slide up and down , i thought it was spliter anybody has same with me? or its only me?


It’s a slider, the heatshrink is the splitter.


----------



## SweetEars

subwoof3r said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Just received my pair of Fengru DIY EMX500S today!
> 
> ...



thanks.. i shall also wait for yr willsound review


----------



## winterflood

seanc6441 said:


> It’s a slider, the heatshrink is the splitter.


thanks seanc6441


----------



## ctaxxxx

ClieOS said:


> Here is my impression on Dragon 2+.(= SWD2+)
> 
> As far as overall sound signature goes, SWD2+ is just about neutral and leaning a bit toward the bright side. Bass is borderline average in quantity, and probably the only weak spot of the whole sound and definitely not a good choice for anyone who demands good bass in their music. mid-range is neither sweet nor distanced, far enough to give a sense of space but not so much that it takes away the texture. Treble is crisp and well extended, has good detail and fairly bright, but not so much that it becomes hash. The strength of SWD+, however, lies in its soundstage - it is not the widest I have ever heard (Rose Mojito still holds that title), but it is definitely the deepest. Most earbuds can render width just fine but not so much in depth, and thus soundstage tends to be more oval in the X-axis. Before SWD2+, the only other earbud that can render depth as good as width is the Blox TM7, which gives TM7's presentation a very 3D and life-like quality. SDW2+, in comparison, can also render this kind of 3D-rounded-sphere-like soundstage, but in even bigger size. That allows for a very immersive experience that no other earbuds (with the exception of TM7) can give, almost like you are in the middle of the stage performing rather than just a front seat listener. For that, it deserves a spot among the other flagship level ToTL earbuds.
> 
> On a side note, SWD2+ sounds fairly similar in either single-ended or balanced configuration. While bass does get tighten up slightly, it really doesn't change the overall tonal balance. But it seems SWD2+ only comes in balanced 2.5mm plug with 3.5mm adapter, so you should be covered whether you want to use it on a balanced source or not.



Is the large soundstage with thin or thick foams? 

These are starting to interest me, since I'm now starting to prefer the Diomnes with the newer, thicker Monk+ foams for that full bodied warmth and upper bass (amazing for male vocals). Plus the Diomnes don't have enough energy in the upper mids for some music genres. 

I'm considering these over the Liebesleid for classical and hi-res recordings, since the Dragon 2+ sound like they may be a more neutral Mojito, rather than a slightly warm Mojitio (which is what I would possibly describe the Liebesleid as). Any comparisons between these two?


----------



## doggiemom

waynes world said:


> @seanc6441, how do you personally test "rolled off versus nicely extended"? I'd like to find out if I can even tell the difference (which I doubt, because I'm 110 years old lol).


I bought this to "test" the Utopias when I bought them:
http://www.chesky.com/album/ultimate-headphone-demonstration-disc-jd361
Would be interesting to try with some buds.


----------



## ctaxxxx

doggiemom said:


> I bought this to "test" the Utopias when I bought them:
> http://www.chesky.com/album/ultimate-headphone-demonstration-disc-jd361
> Would be interesting to try with some buds.



I should buy that... Would really help cement how confident I am in providing accurate impressions.


----------



## ClieOS

ctaxxxx said:


> Is the large soundstage with thin or thick foams?
> 
> These are starting to interest me, since I'm now starting to prefer the Diomnes with the newer, thicker Monk+ foams for that full bodied warmth and upper bass (amazing for male vocals). Plus the Diomnes don't have enough energy in the upper mids for some music genres.
> 
> I'm considering these over the Liebesleid for classical and hi-res recordings, since the Dragon 2+ sound like they may be a more neutral Mojito, rather than a slightly warm Mojitio (which is what I would possibly describe the Liebesleid as). Any comparisons between these two?



Donut foam.

I actually won't describe SWD2+ being a 'neutral Mojito' or 'warm Mojitio / Liebesleid' like. The reason is that, while SWD2+ is tilting toward a brighter presentation, it is nowhere as bright as Mojito or Liebesleid, nor does it places a lot of emphasis over its treble and micro detail like the other two.


----------



## chinmie

doggiemom said:


> I bought this to "test" the Utopias when I bought them:
> http://www.chesky.com/album/ultimate-headphone-demonstration-disc-jd361
> Would be interesting to try with some buds.





ctaxxxx said:


> I should buy that... Would really help cement how confident I am in providing accurate impressions.



You can also find it on Spotify, in lossy format of course


----------



## siderak

ClieOS said:


> Donut foam.
> 
> I actually won't describe SWD2+ being a 'neutral Mojito' or 'warm Mojitio / Liebesleid' like. The reason is that, while SWD2+ is tilting toward a brighter presentation, it is nowhere as bright as Mojito or Liebesleid, nor does it places a lot of emphasis over its treble and micro detail like the other two.



 I haven't seen any images of the Liebesleid's with foams. 
Do you think they could lend themselves to some tuning that way?


----------



## ClieOS

siderak said:


> I haven't seen any images of the Liebesleid's with foams.
> Do you think they could lend themselves to some tuning that way?



I always use my Liebesleid with full foam - It gives a better fit and thus a better sound. If I recall correctly, it already came with full foam the day I received mine.


----------



## siderak

Thx. That's really good to know.
Moondrop here I come...


----------



## ctaxxxx

ClieOS said:


> Donut foam.
> 
> I actually won't describe SWD2+ being a 'neutral Mojito' or 'warm Mojitio / Liebesleid' like. The reason is that, while SWD2+ is tilting toward a brighter presentation, it is nowhere as bright as Mojito or Liebesleid, nor does it places a lot of emphasis over its treble and micro detail like the other two.



Hmmm... I'm having trouble grasping it's basic sound signature now. So it's more pure neutral without emphasizing any particular frequencies, just it's soundstage?

What is the midrange tonality? Is it linear, or is there a focus on the lower or upper-mids? Is the brighter presentation due to how lean the mids and bass are?

I'm mainly looking for a complement to the Diomnes' lower-mid (male vocal) focus, which would be an upper-mids (female vocal) focus. Should I still go for Liebesleid, or something else? 

None of the IEMs I'm interested in are released yet, so I've been looking back at earbuds again.


----------



## doggiemom

chinmie said:


> You can also find it on Spotify, in lossy format of course



The latter tracks are the same clips recorded in lossy and non-lossy formats, so using Spotify would kind of defeat the purpose.


----------



## RuFrost

I have just got revelation today. It is all about Zen 2 Black Cardas.
You know how Zen series is special sounding earbuds? I mean vast majority do not like it. Well, it is because they do not know how to cook it. 
One buyer asked for reserve on them and he is buying x7 from me (it will be his primal source). So in order to check compatibility I decided to combine it together. 
1) Foamless - so-so...
2) thin foams - better, but still meh...
3) I decided to try last perverted option - to use it with thick donuts...AND IT WORKED!!! It is my 5th hour straight that I'm listening to basically everything on x7. Fantastic air between instruments, separation and resolution. I could not force to play pleasurable many popular songs which are recorded with unnatural instruments (such as digital instruments, PC, professional studios and so on). I mean, for example, classical music would be of natural instrumental sources. So donuts+zen black is fantastic combo which beats diomnes lv2 and shozy bk easily. 
4) You do not need energy station or any external stationair amp to drive them to their almost full potential. All you need is DONUTS and second-tier hi-end source like x7 and alike! I wish to try heigi donuts with them...It is authentic experience of full size cans. Realization that it is achieved with just earbud-form factor is paralyzing! It is the first time in a years that I want to listen music non-stop. I'm so excited, I want to send them to tour so that many people try them with donuts and got the same experience as I'm.

Lee is an audio genius...


----------



## the diode

I use the think donuts with my Zen 2 black as well and I love them that way. Love my stuff from Lee.


----------



## RuFrost (Apr 15, 2018)

the diode said:


> I use the think donuts with my Zen 2 black as well and I love them that way. Love my stuff from Lee.


Wow! I'm not alone)
How does it sound compared to Penon BS1 Official? what are the differences?


----------



## chinmie

doggiemom said:


> The latter tracks are the same clips recorded in lossy and non-lossy formats, so using Spotify would kind of defeat the purpose.



Which ones? The compressed sound test?


----------



## chinmie

RuFrost said:


> I have just got revelation today. It is all about Zen 2 Black Cardas.
> You know how Zen series is special sounding earbuds? I mean vast majority do not like it. Well, it is because they do not know how to cook it.
> One buyer asked for reserve on them and he is buying x7 from me (it will be his primal source). So in order to check compatibility I decided to combine it together.
> 1) Foamless - so-so...
> ...



Different results for different people, as sound is highly subjective.. And I'm sure everyone who has them would already tried every foam types that suits them the best. To me personally, i can't use the Zen 2.0 with thick foams, whether donuts or full... To dark sounding. mine is the standard cable, so maybe there is difference in sound there.

I can only use them foamless or thin foams. 

The diomnes and stardust are different as their treble can cut through even with thick foams. I even prefer the diomnes with thick foams only (the same as my Liebesleid..only full thick foams on that one)


----------



## doggiemom (Apr 15, 2018)

chinmie said:


> Which ones? The compressed sound test?


Here is a screenshot of the track list and file sizes.  The latter tracks are the same cuts with different levels of compression.


----------



## chinmie

doggiemom said:


> Here is a screenshot of the track list and file sizes.  The latter tracks are the same cuts with different levels of compression.



You mean the dynamic range test? I don't think it got anything to do with data compression like from wav to mp3 and such. It's more about mixing/mastering compression module/effects. The more compression applied to the recording, the less dynamic the output sound will be (more even volume between the the drummer playing softly and when they hit the drums hard, or when the singer whisper compared to when they scream)

Acoustic recordings (jazz, classical  folk, etc) usually use minimum compression or even none at all during recording, while modern rock/pop usually compress the heck out of the tracks so they can push the volume high and even

The better the cans you have, usually the better dynamic range they have.


----------



## ClieOS (Apr 16, 2018)

ctaxxxx said:


> Hmmm... I'm having trouble grasping it's basic sound signature now. So it's more pure neutral without emphasizing any particular frequencies, just it's soundstage?
> 
> What is the midrange tonality? Is it linear, or is there a focus on the lower or upper-mids? Is the brighter presentation due to how lean the mids and bass are?
> 
> ...



it is hard to grasp because it is hard to describe. This is one of two earbuds (*the other one is TM7) that words alone doesn't quite do justice to its sound signature. You really have to listen to it to understand - it will be like trying to describe a asymmetrical 3D object with 2D vocabulary and every time you thought you get it right, you really only getting one side correctly.


----------



## silverfishla

ClieOS said:


> it is hard to grasp because it is hard to describe. This is one of two earbuds (*the other one is TM7) that words alone doesn't quite do justice to its sound signature. You really have to listen to it to understand - it will be like trying to describe a asymmetrical 3D object with 2D vocabulary and every you thought you get it right, you really only getting one side correctly.


C'mon!


----------



## kurtextrem

Guess what arrived? The TO400s 
Now onto comparison to BS1...


----------



## Carrow

Anyone able to identify these for me? Obviously they are Sony buds (and even then they're not quite 'proper' earbuds, but I'm classifying them as such) and I've had them since 2009 or so. They're still kicking but there's no identifying information to speak of beyond the brand name. Not even sure they're still in production.


----------



## ClieOS

Carrow said:


> Anyone able to identify these for me? Obviously they are Sony buds (and even then they're not quite 'proper' earbuds, but I'm classifying them as such) and I've had them since 2009 or so. They're still kicking but there's no identifying information to speak of beyond the brand name. Not even sure they're still in production.



These are affectionately called the 'pig nose' earbuds, and they were the popular design in several generations of Sony earbuds from late 90's to late 2000, ranging from individual retail models to stock models that came with Walkman and Discman. So this isn't going to be easy to identify by the look alone. Some models do however have the model name on the Y-splitter.

These one might be MDR-ED21 or ED31, but i am just guessing.


----------



## Carrow

ClieOS said:


> These are affectionately called the 'pig nose' earbuds, and they were the popular design in several generations of Sony earbuds from late 90's to late 2000, ranging from individual retail models to stock models that came with Walkman and Discman. So this isn't going to be easy to identify by the look alone. Some models do however have the model name on the Y-splitter.
> 
> These one might be MDR-ED21 or ED31, but i am just guessing.



Oh damn it was on the splitter the whole time. These are the MDR-ED21! No idea how I didn't notice before, thank you!


----------



## Carrow

Carrow said:


> Oh damn it was on the splitter the whole time. These are the MDR-ED21! No idea how I didn't notice before, thank you!



Don't normally double post but holy schitt these pair well with my Cayin N3. On mid gain with volume around 30 the bass still hits like a truck. Really detailed sound, never realised how source dependent these were!

Does anything exist in the earbud realm with a similar fit or sound signature? Ideally something still in production since these aren't anymore.


----------



## rahmish (Apr 16, 2018)

Wow, I had them years ago and used to like a lot, at least I know model now... 


Carrow said:


> Anyone able to identify these for me? Obviously they are Sony buds (and even then they're not quite 'proper' earbuds, but I'm classifying them as such) and I've had them since 2009 or so. They're still kicking but there's no identifying information to speak of beyond the brand name. Not even sure they're still in production.


----------



## seanc6441

rahmish said:


> Wow, I had them years ago and used to like a lot, at least I know model now...


They look like an earpod-like design. So they are designed to be used foamless I guess?

What’s the signature like? Warm, Dark and smooth is what I remember from Sony but I haven’t used a sony product in quite awhile.


----------



## rahmish (Apr 16, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> They look like an earpod-like design. So they are designed to be used foamless I guess?
> 
> What’s the signature like? Warm, Dark and smooth is what I remember from Sony but I haven’t used a sony product in quite awhile.


I really don't remember,but I used them foamless, it was about 12 years ago and I used it with CD-player, would be very interesting listen to them now...


----------



## Carrow

seanc6441 said:


> They look like an earpod-like design. So they are designed to be used foamless I guess?
> 
> What’s the signature like? Warm, Dark and smooth is what I remember from Sony but I haven’t used a sony product in quite awhile.



Quite warm, but not stiflingly so. Plenty of bass impact which I would imagine would be lost if using foams. They don't seem designed for that anyway.


----------



## jant71 (Apr 16, 2018)

Anyone heard the WillSound MK3 yet? Supposed to be a new driver.

One site selling says... "Earbud diy from Willsound Audio with unique sound tuning, Bright, wide wide vocal soundstage, extensional treble, perfect for rock, metal music genres."

Other site says... "The MK3 has the same character with Mk2, some songs the MK3 little bit warmer than MK2. All sectors almost the same. "

Leaning to the second being the more reliable but would like another impression or two at least


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

And again with the *NiceHCK EBX.*
I decide to write a review and share my now overwhelming love for them (since I find the right fitting!).
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-ebx.22771/reviews


----------



## siderak

Posting simply because I like to see this thread hovering near the top of the list...
Earbuds Roundup forever


----------



## HungryPanda

enjoy with whichever earbud


----------



## seanc6441

@HungryPanda Thanks that’s was very pleasant indeed, I’m usually not a fan of an ethereal voice but she pulls it off in a way that’s enjoyable. I think the song actually being good helps too 

(Listening through my DIY PK2... still)


----------



## doggiemom

chinmie said:


> You mean the dynamic range test? I don't think it got anything to do with data compression like from wav to mp3 and such. It's more about mixing/mastering compression module/effects. The more compression applied to the recording, the less dynamic the output sound will be (more even volume between the the drummer playing softly and when they hit the drums hard, or when the singer whisper compared to when they scream)
> 
> Acoustic recordings (jazz, classical  folk, etc) usually use minimum compression or even none at all during recording, while modern rock/pop usually compress the heck out of the tracks so they can push the volume high and even
> 
> The better the cans you have, usually the better dynamic range they have.


I could be wrong, but the file sizes are different for the compressed and uncompressed versions.  (The file sizes are shown in the second to last column of the picture).


----------



## Saoshyant

Out of silly curiosity I bought a silicone cover for 15mm earbuds.  Then it occurred to me I’m utterly clueless which shell type it would fit best.  Anyone more measurement-y have a suggestion?


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 16, 2018)

Saoshyant said:


> Out of silly curiosity I bought a silicone cover for 15mm earbuds.  Then it occurred to me I’m utterly clueless which shell type it would fit best.  Anyone more measurement-y have a suggestion?


Word of caution be VERY careful using that on expensive earbuds, or any earbuds you care about!

If you create a seal with your finger trying to put on the cover you can damage the driver by restricting airflow... basically the diaphragm can get pushed or pulled by suction out of shape.

I know this because I damaged  one of my budget earbuds this way and was really shocked that it could happen as I had never thought of it before. I actually heard the driver crinkle as I applied the silicone cover... Had a bit of regret in that moment lol

Foams are so well vented it’s not usually an issue to consider!


----------



## chinmie

doggiemom said:


> I could be wrong, but the file sizes are different for the compressed and uncompressed versions.  (The file sizes are shown in the second to last column of the picture).



Yes, also notice the compressed ones are actually larger in file size, because compressed sound (or worse, the one through a brick wall limiter effect) file actually have more information than the uncompressed ones. Again, this is not about audio file size compression, but about dynamic range compression


----------



## chinmie

Nymphonomaniac said:


> And again with the *NiceHCK EBX.*
> I decide to write a review and share my now overwhelming love for them (since I find the right fitting!).
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-ebx.22771/reviews



Glad that it finally work out for you. Some buds just have to be given more effort to sound good, but when they do, sometimes it turns out to be a keeper


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> Yes, also notice the compressed ones are actually larger in file size, because compressed sound (or worse, the one through a brick wall limiter effect) file actually have more information than the uncompressed ones. Again, this is not about audio file size compression, but about dynamic range compression


I really hate music mastered this way, damn loudness wars... Still happening these days right? It really sounds terrible the constant ‘wall’ of noise.


----------



## Saoshyant

There’s zero concern of that as the design has a large amount of airflow.  It’s mostly just a more secure design of the silicone ring.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> I really hate music mastered this way, damn loudness wars... Still happening these days right? It really sounds terrible the constant ‘wall’ of noise.



I think they tone it down a bit. I noticed music nowadays choose to use less tracks to work with and play around with spatial placement of sound more (because majority of people now listen to music with earphones) , so they can push volume up without the messy overcompression. The early 2000s was the worse, especially the rock music scene. Too many tracks, adds up to busy music/noise, tops it off with brick wall limiter = fatiguing listening session. The radio era is also play part on that loudness war


----------



## seanc6441

Saoshyant said:


> There’s zero concern of that as the design has a large amount of airflow.  It’s mostly just a more secure design of the silicone ring.


Once it’s on it’s not an issue just when you initially place it on you usually use your fingers and thumb and it can create a seal. But as long as you know it’s ok.


----------



## Saoshyant

Keep in mind, I’ve been doing this awhile


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 16, 2018)

Saoshyant said:


> Keep in mind, I’ve been doing this awhile


Oh no it’s not about that was just giving a caution after the experience I had fitting a silicone cover.

Of course you can do what you like, Not my call. I’m sure you’ve had no problems with it before so you know yourself what to do


----------



## B9Scrambler

Like the F32MT from TY Hi-Z, I found the F300M a very mixed bag with a wonky tune. Not recommended. Love the shell and cable though!

The Contraptionist / Head-Fi

  ​


----------



## golov17

B9Scrambler said:


> Not recommended. Love the shell and cable though!


 agreed


----------



## ctaxxxx

ClieOS said:


> it is hard to grasp because it is hard to describe. This is one of two earbuds (*the other one is TM7) that words alone doesn't quite do justice to its sound signature. You really have to listen to it to understand - it will be like trying to describe a asymmetrical 3D object with 2D vocabulary and every time you thought you get it right, you really only getting one side correctly.



Someone else may need to order it and *attempt to describe the beast...* lol. I'm tempted though. Another user I've PM'ed praised it's soundstage too, described it as an all rounder, and being heavily source dependent.

However, I ended up finding someone selling a balanced Liebesleid for cheaper than what was on Amazon (and offered EMS shipping!), so I went for that. As I recall, I only had the DX200's AMP1 last time I owned the unbalanced version, so it'll be interesting to see how much it improves with AMP4 (even though my memory of it is more faint now), which I consider a huge step up.


----------



## liquidrats

Does anyone knows where I can the foam given together with the monk+ ? I tore a few of them while putting it in, very fragile but I like the sound it gives, I want to use it with my bs1 official

I got the monk+ recently and for the price to performance it's a big WOW!


----------



## golov17

liquidrats said:


> Does anyone knows where I can the foam given together with the monk+ ? I tore a few of them while putting it in, very fragile but I like the sound it gives, I want to use it with my bs1 official
> 
> I got the monk+ recently and for the price to performance it's a big WOW!


Venture Electronics VE Monk Plus Earbud Hifi Headphone In ear Earphone 
http://s.aliexpress.com/aeqYBZji 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## liquidrats

golov17 said:


> Venture Electronics VE Monk Plus Earbud Hifi Headphone In ear Earphone
> http://s.aliexpress.com/aeqYBZji
> (from AliExpress Android)


thanks mate!


----------



## chinmie

ctaxxxx said:


> Someone else may need to order it and *attempt to describe the beast...* lol. I'm tempted though. Another user I've PM'ed praised it's soundstage too, described it as an all rounder, and being heavily source dependent.
> 
> However, I ended up finding someone selling a balanced Liebesleid for cheaper than what was on Amazon (and offered EMS shipping!), so I went for that. As I recall, I only had the DX200's AMP1 last time I owned the unbalanced version, so it'll be interesting to see how much it improves with AMP4 (even though my memory of it is more faint now), which I consider a huge step up.



my friend purchased them (the SWD2 +) and hopefully gonna arrive in the next few week. I'll give my impression when he lend them to me


----------



## chaiyuta

On the Moondrop official taobao store, I see 4.4mm. plug as an option for Liebesleid, Here.


----------



## justin Montagano

I'm looking to  buy a fun IEM to go to the gym with, are there any you guys would recommend sub $100.

Cheers


----------



## acap13

justin Montagano said:


> I'm looking to  buy a fun IEM to go to the gym with, are there any you guys would recommend sub $100.
> 
> Cheers



Sorry don't mean to offend but this is clearly a wrong thread to ask for an IEM. Would be more helpful to find information in IEM thread instead. Good luck!


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 17, 2018)

liquidrats said:


> thanks mate!


You may want to try the cheap thin aliexpress foams while you are at it. Same essence as the old monk thin foam, slightly more revealing of texture but slightly less smooth and slightly less transparent sounding.

Compared to the newest monk thin foams they are better in transparency and detail. New monk thins smooth out the sound and are thicker than the old. Not my favourite honestly but can work with certain earbuds well.

http://s.aliexpress.com/veMv6jMb

For $1/100 foams it’s a no brainer.


----------



## Narayan23

justin Montagano said:


> I'm looking to  buy a fun IEM to go to the gym with, are there any you guys would recommend sub $100.
> 
> Cheers



Your answer lies within the 624 pages of this thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...-reference-list.805930/page-624#post-14180392


----------



## CriminalCrimson

Hello, im new in this forum and finding a recommendation to this:

Im using a VE Monk earbuds and they are awesome, but im looking for a better earbuds to use with my Fiio A1 and Fiio M3 (only classic earbuds, no noise reduction or foams), like this:

1.- Android controls, microphone and volume control & resistant cable
2.- No foam earbuds, no noise reductor, classic earbuds only
3.- Better quality sound than VE Monk earbuds, if is possible with accesories
4.- Between $50 and $100

Please, i need every models, no matter if is chinese or american, i want to compare models and read. Thanks!


----------



## subwoof3r

Just received today my pairs of Willsound MK1 & MK2 (both rev 2) ! 

Build quality is very good, but in favor of the MK1 (in a beautiful red cable and better finish, while termination jack looks better on the MK2).

On first listening, clearly, MK2 wins. I’m a bit deceived by MK1. I hoped better.

MK1 is clearly designed for relaxing listening (no clarity, not bright, thin soundstage). Looks better for pop musics I would say as well as Piano, instrumental, etc, while MK2 is more balanced and for all genres (EDM also). MK2 has a very good (but not exaggerated) soundstage but both earbuds compared to EMX500S definitely lacks sub-bass. EMX500S is always the most complete sound, the only thing I don’t like is the “extreme” soundstage (a bit like a 3D sphere), but excels everywhere and sounds like full headphones due to sub-bass being present.

I really enjoy currently MK2 sound. Even if it lacks sub-bass, they a still slightly more present than MK1.

MK2 is an all rounder earbud. It has the most impressive listening experience (from all my earbuds).

It has the right amount of everything and lacks nothing. MK1 is more dark sound I would say, it’s more boring but at the same time for very long listening experience, MK1 is still good tho.

MK1 is another grid than the most commons EMX500S & MK2 grids (will maybe take a photo to show you guys if interested). I don’t know if this grid muffle a bit the MK1 drivers, I’m pretty sure it could express differently with the same MK2 grill.

For now, I can’t say which is my best earbuds, but I’m pretty sure that my MK2 will be. Too bad for the sub-bass.

Foams placed on earbuds are the best sounding experience from any other included foams. They are black and extremely fragile (very very thin and spaced, to let the sound express better with a good comfort). These foams looks similar to original Monk+ foams.

They are so fragile that I already damaged very slightly two foams (even if they are still ok, too bad there is no other set like included with the same thickness).

Will try to do a further comparative with EMX500S / MK1 / MK2 (and maybe Blox BE3) soon.

Cheers’ and happy listening


----------



## Majin

Do the EMX500S need burn in? I am not impressed on my initial listening session. 
The PMV on the other hand that I bought during sale (14,50 euro) are amazing. Fast hitting sub bass and it has the best clarity out of all the cheapo earbuds that I own.
Not sure if i would recommend the PMV for it's current price of 23 euro though.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 17, 2018)

CriminalCrimson said:


> Hello, im new in this forum and finding a recommendation to this:
> 
> Im using a VE Monk earbuds and they are awesome, but im looking for a better earbuds to use with my Fiio A1 and Fiio M3 (only classic earbuds, no noise reduction or foams), like this:
> 
> ...


Most earbuds are designed to be used with foams and the majority of people use foams whether it’s the super thin variants or more traditional thicker foam.

I think there are a few that most consider to sound good without foams like the VE Zen or maybe the new Zen Lite although I’m not sure if you can get mic/android controls on that one.

You can go foamless with any earbud but most people would not choose to do so because the balance would be great tilted towards treble and upper mids. VE earbuds like the monk/zen are tuned very dark so it’s easier to enjoy them without foam.

Some people on this thread prefer foamless so they might be best suited to give you recommendations. Hope you find the right bud!


----------



## chinmie

CriminalCrimson said:


> Hello, im new in this forum and finding a recommendation to this:
> 
> Im using a VE Monk earbuds and they are awesome, but im looking for a better earbuds to use with my Fiio A1 and Fiio M3 (only classic earbuds, no noise reduction or foams), like this:
> 
> ...



the best earbuds to use with no foams to me is the Zen 2..unfortunately no control buttons on them.
most earbuds that i know have control buttons are the sub $50 ones, and the one i like the most is the Neosound Soul from Thailand


----------



## Saoshyant

At that point looking for controls in the $50-100 range, the options are all detachable cable.  Unfortunately there still aren’t many options, DK-Song being one of them.


----------



## ctaxxxx

CriminalCrimson said:


> Hello, im new in this forum and finding a recommendation to this:
> 
> Im using a VE Monk earbuds and they are awesome, but im looking for a better earbuds to use with my Fiio A1 and Fiio M3 (only classic earbuds, no noise reduction or foams), like this:
> 
> ...



The Cypherus Blue Darth is the best I've heard for going foamless, but it's at the top of your budget.  It will give you more sub-bass, but there's no mic unfortunately. 

I would suggest having one bud for mic calls (cheap one) and another for music. I never see higher-end buds with mics.


----------



## Scaven (Apr 17, 2018)

Majin said:


> Do the EMX500S need burn in? I am not impressed on my initial listening session.



That's interesting, I got a pair recently from AK Audio store on AliExpress and mine are amazing. The only thing I would like is a touch more mid bass.
I got these ones, are they the same as yours?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/AK-...ass-Earbuds-DJ-Earbuds-Heavy/32836652079.html


----------



## liquidrats (Apr 17, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> You may want to try the cheap thin aliexpress foams while you are at it. Same essence as the old monk thin foam, slightly more revealing of texture but slightly less smooth and slightly less transparent sounding.
> 
> Compared to the newest monk thin foams they are better in transparency and detail. New monk thins smooth out the sound and are thicker than the old. Not my favourite honestly but can work with certain earbuds well.
> 
> ...


thanks for the tips. I'll place an order for both and snag an espresso on the way out!


----------



## Carrow

Rose Masya arrived, currently have the stock full foams on as that's all my set came with. They were so much easier to apply than the full foams on the Monk+. Soundstage is ginormous even run off my laptop. @seanc6441 what do you have on these rn and what do they do for the sound?


----------



## CriminalCrimson (Apr 18, 2018)

Wow then the best earbud options doesnt have mic or controls
Zen 2.0 is an interesting option (a bit expensive), but i checked Asura but it has lack of bass : (

Then i checked the Neosound Soul but i dont know where i can buy that
For now i just ask for under $50 earbuds (around $30-50), with mic and controls and powerful performance like VE Monk, and no sound restrictor foams (only foams like VE Monk EX Pack, for example)

EDIT: I was reading reviews and i have this list. Best option or better performance than Monk?

Edifier H180
Sennheiser MX 170
Sennheiser MX 585
Sennheiser MX 985
Audio Technica ATH-CM707
Sennheiser MX 760

Thanks!


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 18, 2018)

@Carrow



Multi hole Hiegi full foam. 3 central and 3 outer. Yes it was tricky to cut so if you are not confident in cutting the foams I suggest you do as ClieOS did and use a belt punch.

Ok so what it did for the sound? Well it gives me the best of both thin/no foam (clarity and detail) and thick foams (full body and smoothness).

Before this I was finding it difficult to get any sort of balance between detail and smoothness. The vocals were either harsh or muddy with other foams.

Basically I’d say it’s transformed the sound. They should be shipped with these foams IMO...

I’d say the only thing I’d still like is a little more airy sound because the hiegi foam is quite thick, but most people will find this just about right I feel.

Maybe I’ll look for a foam slightly less thick than hiegi and experiment but most regular full foams didn’t sound as good as hiegi tried it. Although keep in mind I think my ears are smaller than average or more similar to many here from asia 

Like MX500 shells aren’t very comfortable to me but pk and rose shell’s are. If your ears are bigger than mine then the hiegi foams will not be compressed much and the sound will change most likely for the better.

I have to rest the masyas lightly in my ear to get the best sound.


----------



## chaiyuta

Neosound is DIY earphones brand from Thailand. Here is the facebook fanpage.


----------



## ShabtabQ

seanc6441 said:


> @Carrow
> 
> 
> Multi hole Hiegi full foam. 3 central and 3 outer. Yes it was tricky to cut so if you are not confident in cutting the foams I suggest you do as ClieOS did and use a belt punch.
> ...


How did you cut like that, using scissors?


----------



## Majin

Scaven said:


> That's interesting, I got a pair recently from AK Audio store on AliExpress and mine are amazing. The only thing I would like is a touch more mid bass.
> I got these ones, are they the same as yours?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/AK-...ass-Earbuds-DJ-Earbuds-Heavy/32836652079.html



I bought this one

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot...99de-4bf0-8461-a692ed5d7228&priceBeautifyAB=0

While they are not bad but they are a minor upgrade to the vido.


----------



## SweetEars (Apr 18, 2018)

AudioBudget.com said:
			
		

> YOLOPE V8.
> Super cheap earbuds with a very interesting sound signature. Dare I say - a very unexpectedly extended and unique sound signature. They are a hard fit, however, and come without any foam pads. And I'm still looking for a way to make them seal properly without so much effort.
> http://www.yolope.com/Products_xx.php?ID=82



anyone knows about this?


----------



## SweetEars

Majin said:


> I bought this one
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot...99de-4bf0-8461-a692ed5d7228&priceBeautifyAB=0
> 
> While they are not bad but they are a minor upgrade to the vido.


bought the fengru one.. any differences?


----------



## Majin

SweetEars said:


> bought the fengru one.. any differences?



Difference between the vido or the AK one?


----------



## seanc6441

ShabtabQ said:


> How did you cut like that, using scissors?


Yes I used a small scissors.


----------



## ShabtabQ

seanc6441 said:


> Yes I used a small scissors.


I tried, lol spoiled two of my foams, haha, illI try later with some small scissors maybe practice will help me, thanks btw.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 18, 2018)

ShabtabQ said:


> I tried, lol spoiled two of my foams, haha, illI try later with some small scissors maybe practice will help me, thanks btw.


That’s why I suggested the leather punch, much easier.

I cut them by pinching the foam in half and making two cuts in a wedge or inverted V. Then remove the piece of excess foam with a tweezers if needed. Then repeat for each hole.

It’s hard I have ruined a few foams after making many of them. It’s easy to cut too much...


----------



## ShabtabQ

seanc6441 said:


> That’s why I suggested the leather punch, much easier.
> 
> I cut them by pinching the foam in half and making two cuts in a wedge or inverted V. Then remove the piece of excess foam with a tweezers if needed. Then repeat for each hole.
> 
> It’s hard I have ruined a few foams after making many of them. It’s easy to cut too much...



I'll see where to get that pinching thing now, anyways I'm currently using monk plus with thun foams, spoiled all my thick foams trying to make holes, and bte I ordered **** PT15, I had got coupon, and next I'm gonna buy the PK2.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 18, 2018)

ShabtabQ said:


> I'll see where to get that pinching thing now, anyways I'm currently using monk plus with thun foams, spoiled all my thick foams trying to make holes, and bte I ordered **** PT15, I had got coupon, and next I'm gonna buy the PK2.


Sorry about that. I just bought a new pack of hiegi foams myself because I ran out of foams to cut lol.

Was worth it for experimenting though, next batch I’ll get them all right hopefully 

I’ve got quite a few new buds on the way that should see me relax off ANY total or over $20 buds for a long time. I need to think about my wallet for awhile lol.

I was thinking I’d keep it to myself which I bought and unveil some impressions and some eyecandy shots when they arrived


----------



## kzii

overkill?


----------



## waynes world (Apr 18, 2018)

Seriously, are there _any_ better buds for edm/trance than the Svara L's (32ohm)?


----------



## seanc6441

kzii said:


> overkill?



And does it sound better than stock monk plus? 

If so what’s improved, would love to know.


----------



## HungryPanda

waynes world said:


> Seriously, is there _any_ better bud for edm/trance than the Svara L (32ohm)?


 I don't wish to comment.....


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> I don't wish to comment.....



You better not - my wallet thinks you've commented enough!



or, for those without microscopes...


----------



## HungryPanda

The Svara L's are pretty incredible though


----------



## kzii

seanc6441 said:


> And does it sound better than stock monk plus?
> 
> If so what’s improved, would love to know.



Bass has more rumble and it's tighter. Separation, clearness and instruments timbre are better. On the stock cable Monks were sometimes too muddy. Overall Monks are a little warmer with better clarity. I prefer the Monks this way


----------



## waynes world (Apr 18, 2018)

chinmie said:


> This the cable i purchased, but i can't post the link here, because, you know, forum rules  but you can easily search them in AE
> Nice cable, but i ordered the L shaped head like in the picture (hoping i can use it with my ER4XR). It didn't fit, and using it with the Svara-L is a little bit awkward. If i could rewind time, i would buy the straight mmcx head and with non plastic tubing.



Great input.

For my PT15's and Svara L's, I'm thinking of..



Spoiler: this one...







$26 I can handle. Black. Looks somewhat flexible. 4 core! (whatever that means). Silver plated! (whatever that means).

Or I could go with this VE cable on massdrop for only $10, but the  downside is waiting until May25 for shipping:
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/venture-electronics-iem-cables/talk#discussions

Or I could venture into the VE website and order one from here:
https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=16

I tentatively have come up with the "black litz", "4 wire" cable for $30 as follows, but I don't know if it would be materially different than the one in the spoiler above:


If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions, please let me know. Thanks.

Edit: here's a dumb question... I am looking for a "balanced" cable. Does it need to say "balanced"?


----------



## waynes world

p.s. I can't get the mmcx connectors off of my **** pt15's! Do I need a crowbar or something?


----------



## boblauer (Apr 18, 2018)

@waynes world Are you using on the go? I have the VE black Litz cable in 2 pin for iems and sonically its nice but stiff.
The VE espresso is the softest of the bunch so if ergonomics matter but you gotta like brown.

Sorry originally tagged chinmie.


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> p.s. I can't get the mmcx connectors off of my **** pt15's! Do I need a crowbar or something?



Because I have seen others mention this,  I plan to keep the stock cable on my PT15 forever.


----------



## waynes world

boblauer said:


> @waynes world Are you using on the go? I have the VE black Litz cable in 2 pin for iems and sonically its nice but stiff.
> The VE espresso is the softest of the bunch so if ergonomics matter but you gotta like brown.
> 
> Sorry originally tagged chinmie.



Thanks! Yes, using on the go and "stiff" wouldn't work for me. I'd be happy to go with a different VE cable, but I'm not sure if any of them are black.


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Edit: here's a dumb question... I am looking for a "balanced" cable. Does it need to say "balanced"?



The best clue is the 2.5mm jack. Chat with the seller to make sure



waynes world said:


> p.s. I can't get the mmcx connectors off of my **** pt15's! Do I need a crowbar or something?



Sometimes slipping a fingernail while pulling can make it easier..and remember to pull straight, never angled, to avoid damaging the connector.


----------



## teesui

waynes world said:


> p.s. I can't get the mmcx connectors off of my **** pt15's! Do I need a crowbar or something?



I find that the little guitar pick-like tool that is used to help pry electronic devices open have been helpful in separating really tight Mmcx connectors


----------



## ballog (Apr 19, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> That’s why I suggested the leather punch, much easier.
> 
> I cut them by pinching the foam in half and making two cuts in a wedge or inverted V. Then remove the piece of excess foam with a tweezers if needed. Then repeat for each hole.
> 
> It’s hard I have ruined a few foams after making many of them. It’s easy to cut too much...



I have posted about how I make these last year and I must admit I've become pretty good since (no wasted foams anymore).


----------



## chellity

subwoof3r said:


> Just received today my pairs of Willsound MK1 & MK2 (both rev 2) !
> 
> Build quality is very good, but in favor of the MK1 (in a beautiful red cable and better finish, while termination jack looks better on the MK2).
> 
> ...



I kind of have to agree with you on the mark1.  At first, I wasn't sure if I just didnt like warm vs neutral because they just sounded similar but more veiled than my clear cable mk2.  But it really does feel like its chasing the definition of a warm/rolled off earbud...coming from the mark2 paired with a perfectly smooth/warm source like a cayin n3, it just felt muddy.  Wasn't sure if my pairing was wrong, yet the mk1 didnt seem to have more bass than the mk2 on my iphone despite needing almost all the volume.  Thankfully, something is wrong with my pair, and the right earbud rattles below 70hz  at least I can return them thankfully..so I can keep enjoying my mk2 paired with my cayin as the best neutral/warm pairing I have 

But the willsounds mk2 take wonderfully to a little sub bass EQ.  Even on my n3, +2-4db below 60hz made a great difference in bassy songs.  Mk2 seems to handle the EQ well, it still sounds detailed...I definitely run a more aggressive EQ on my magni 3, and it still sounds great.


----------



## stimuz

mbwilson111 said:


> Because I have seen others mention this,  I plan to keep the stock cable on my PT15 forever.



I bought the no cable version. Seems like I made the right choice


----------



## j4100

The PT15 version that comes with a cable arrived with the cable and earbuds separate. Like others, one of of my mmcx connectors was so tight that removals could be tricky.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 19, 2018)

ballog said:


> I have posted about how I make these last year and I must admit I've become pretty good since (no wasted foams anymore).



Did you use a leather/ hole puncher? They look great. I find that the hole in the centre or close to it cleans up the bass and low mids. Anything on the outside will clean up the upper mids and treble.

This also leads me to believe that many earbuds can be tuned by the front grille. PK shell earbuds with a warmer slower bass (mid bass bump too) can be altered if there with some venting in the middle.

I also discovered that my DIY Graphene venting was the cause if it’s bloated mid bass. I wish I had the version with metal grille it probably sounds much more balanced. But nonetheless I modded mine by removing the front cover which wasn’t glued to the driver and making 3 new holes in the very middle. The result is a much more balanced bass response.  Extends deep and has a moderate quantity but not excessive mid bass like before.

Really cool how you can mod earbuds this way gives you much more options to tune the sound.


----------



## ballog (Apr 19, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Did you use a leather/ hole puncher? They look great. I find that the hole in the centre or close to it cleans up the bass and low mids. Anything on the outside will clean up the upper mids and treble.
> 
> This also leads me to believe that many earbuds can be tuned by the front grille. PK shell earbuds with a warmer slower bass (mid bass bump too) can be altered if there with some venting in the middle.
> 
> ...


@seanc6441  Like I described some time back I use the tip of a metal 'Parker' pen (used to punch holes in paper like that when bored in classroom decades ago). Fortunately around 2 years back this came back to my mind to punch foam with the same method. I usually make six or five concentric holes with an additional one in the middle - on some earbuds the latter isn't necessary cause the center of the front grill is devoid of holes (for example MX500).  I have since perfected the technique and now I can almost mass produce the punched foams. I have devised a method which regretfully  i'll keep to myself for now cause I am thinking of going commercial (to finance my gear purchase cause I am very very cash-strapped and my situation looks to worsen - my wife is due with my second son in two weeks time btw).


----------



## seanc6441

ballog said:


> @seanc6441  Like I described some time back I use the tip of a metal 'Parker' pen (used to punch holes in paper like that when bored in classroom decades ago). Fortunately around 2 years back this came back to my mind to punch foam with the same method. I usually make six or five concentric holes with an additional one in the middle - on some earbuds the latter isn't necessary cause the center of the front grill is devoid of holes (for example MX500).  I have since perfected the technique and now I can almost mass produce the punched foams. I have devised a method which regretfully  i'll keep to myself for now cause I am thinking of going commercial (to finance my gear purchase cause I am very very cash-strapped and my situation looks to worsen - my wife is due with my second son in two weeks time btw).


Well I’m sorry to hear about your situation but congrats to you both for your new baby 

No problem the pen idea is great, I tried searching for your previous post but couldn’t find it so I said I’d ask instead.

Yeah the middle hole is not needed on some, I had a slight variation to yours in the way I put 1 hole in the middle, 3 in the next stage and 3 in the outer stage. But it really depends in the earbud in question for a good pairing.

Anyways thanks for the tips. Great work!


----------



## Nec3 (Apr 19, 2018)

Anyone have the VE Monk Lites? Do they "open up" per-se? I recently received the 40 ohm version and it's really quite a let down compared to Qian 39's. The Qian's are smaller in soundstage, but the sound is much more open with much more depth than the VE Monk Lites. The Monk lites also have a lower treble presence that congests the rest of the sound.



Spoiler: VE Monk Left, Qian39 Right.











EDIT: I'M AN IDIOT

DO NOT AMP THE VE MONK LITES! These do NOT scale up to more powerful amplication, they do however love a more natural source like the Shozy Alien.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> I also discovered that my DIY Graphene venting was the cause if it’s bloated mid bass. I wish I had the version with metal grille it probably sounds much more balanced. But nonetheless I modded mine by removing the front cover which wasn’t glued to the driver and making 3 new holes in the very middle. *The result is a much more balanced bass response.  Extends deep and has a moderate quantity but not excessive mid bass like before.*



It's cool that you were able to improve your old graphenes! But  the sound from your modified graphenes is how I would describe the sound from my unmodified ones (which is strange considering we have the same versions).


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> The Svara L's are pretty incredible though



I was serious about how good I find the Svara L's are for electronica/trance, so your comments are intriguing. If you do actually think three are contenders for that genre, let me know. 

A buddy suggested that the Rose Mojito might be similar (at the expense of the svara l's excellent imaging). But due to their price, they would be something that I would look at further down the road.


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> It's cool that you were able to improve your old graphenes! But  the sound from your modified graphenes is how I would describe the sound from my unmodified ones (which is strange considering we have the same versions).


Could be driver variations. Now that the bass is clear and deep I don't have any issues taming the treble without messing up the bass at all. I can easily balance the sound now and it sounds quite good for everything except vocal heavy tracks. I'm still not in love with the signature but i could easily listen to it now and enjoy the music.

With all the tweaks Jim at Nicehck makes to his buds there are bound to be differences.


waynes world said:


> I was serious about how good I find the Svara L's are for electronica/trance, so your comments are intriguing. If you do actually think three are contenders for that genre, let me know.
> 
> A buddy suggested that the Rose Mojito might be similar (at the expense of the svara l's excellent imaging). But due to their price, they would be something that I would look at further down the road.


Rose Mojito imaging is suggested to be lesser than the Svara L? Svara L must have amazing imaging qualities then I’d imagine.


----------



## HungryPanda

waynes world said:


> I was serious about how good I find the Svara L's are for electronica/trance, so your comments are intriguing. If you do actually think three are contenders for that genre, let me know.
> 
> A buddy suggested that the Rose Mojito might be similar (at the expense of the svara l's excellent imaging). But due to their price, they would be something that I would look at further down the road.


When you posted that i was deep in some hard hitting electronica whilst sporting the Toneking TO400s


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Could be driver variations. Now that the bass is clear and deep I don't have any issues taming the treble without messing up the bass at all. I can easily balance the sound now and it sounds quite good for everything except vocal heavy tracks. I'm still not in love with the signature but i could easily listen to it now and enjoy the music.
> 
> With all the tweaks Jim at Nicehck makes to his buds there are bound to be differences.



That's a possibility. Anyway, I'm glad you're enjoying the old graphenes now 



> Rose Mojito imaging is suggested to be lesser than the Svara L? Svara L must have amazing imaging qualities then I’d imagine.



A buddy (whom I respect and shall remain nameless) once said to me about the Svara L's:



> Overall they have a V-shaped signature with treble and bass response at the forefront and moderately recessed midrange which is perfectly fine for electronica. The soundstage is wide if you wear them over-ear and they also possess the uncommon distinction (in my opinion) of having the most accurate channel separation I've encountered in an earbud. For instance, if you're listening to an electronic song with sweeping effects moving across the L and R channels, sometimes they can get lost or you'll notice a dip in volume as they transition. That is strangely not the case for the Svara L



I would concur with the general description of the signature. And as far as the imaging is concerned, I also agree that it's fantastic.


----------



## subwoof3r

chellity said:


> I kind of have to agree with you on the mark1.  At first, I wasn't sure if I just didnt like warm vs neutral because they just sounded similar but more veiled than my clear cable mk2.  But it really does feel like its chasing the definition of a warm/rolled off earbud...coming from the mark2 paired with a perfectly smooth/warm source like a cayin n3, it just felt muddy.  Wasn't sure if my pairing was wrong, yet the mk1 didnt seem to have more bass than the mk2 on my iphone despite needing almost all the volume.  Thankfully, something is wrong with my pair, and the right earbud rattles below 70hz  at least I can return them thankfully..so I can keep enjoying my mk2 paired with my cayin as the best neutral/warm pairing I have
> 
> But the willsounds mk2 take wonderfully to a little sub bass EQ.  Even on my n3, +2-4db below 60hz made a great difference in bassy songs.  Mk2 seems to handle the EQ well, it still sounds detailed...I definitely run a more aggressive EQ on my magni 3, and it still sounds great.



My MK1 pair suffered the exact same (rattles below 70hz), but on the left driver, not the right one. At first sight I thought is was an issue of the driver itself but after changing the original black foams to the ones from my Monk+ (exact same), no more rattles! you may try this?
It is not the first time I meet some rattles in some earbuds but changing foams (very often) do the trick.
Looks like I'm completely changing my mind on the MK1 after few days of 24/7 burning. Actually MK1 looks especially more sensitive to burning than MK2. They have both thir own caracter, and to me they sound completely different (soundstage especially). I really enjoy them both for now, even if MK2 is more the kind of signature I'm looking for today. MK1 has now gained much more details and becomes a very pleasant surprise. MK1 is more forwarded in upper mids, clearly, MK2 on highs. MK2 sounds balanced but needs to turn a bit the volume down compared to MK1 (even if they are both the same 32 ohms).
I generally don't prefer to use any EQ on everything I listen to (earbuds, cans, etc). But I did tried the EQ you purposed on sub-bass and its sound much better overall due to this slight add-on.


----------



## rkw

waynes world said:


> Edit: here's a dumb question... I am looking for a "balanced" cable. Does it need to say "balanced"?


VE calls it TRRS connector without mentioning balanced. Technically, TRRS connector could mean either a balanced cable or a cable with mic. If the cable doesn't have a mic, it should be safe to assume that TRRS means balanced but VE is lazy about specifying on their website.



waynes world said:


> I'd be happy to go with a different VE cable, but I'm not sure if any of them are black.


As far as I could tell, the only black cable they have is the black litz. Impossible to be conclusive from the photo, but it looks like a somewhat stiff cable.


----------



## Saoshyant

@waynes world Any EDM suggestions?  Haven't listened to my Mojito much and something new to listen to might be enjoyed.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 19, 2018)

@waynes world Awesome but the last sentence in that quoted statement seems to suggest he wasn’t talking about the Svara L?

“That is strangely not the case for the Svara L”

which earbud was he talking about then, the mojito? Maybe he was referencing the Mojito then saying the Svara L doesn’t have this problem? That would make sense.

Edit: I finely understand his wording after five read throughs LOL

He means in general some buds can lose track of panning sounds from left to right, but not the Svara L’s?

Best not to worry about it, I’ll take your word for it they sound like an awesome earbud


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 19, 2018)

.


----------



## kw8910

Yay TO400S finally arrived, nice!


----------



## waynes world

Saoshyant said:


> @waynes world Any EDM suggestions?  Haven't listened to my Mojito much and something new to listen to might be enjoyed.



I'm not so much into the "D" of "EDM", because I mainly listen to trance (usually without vocals) as background music when working, and I never dance to it. Hmm, I listen to it also when falling asleep, and often when just tooling around. So I suppose I listen to trance when doing anything _but _dancing lol.

All of the trance I listen to is from Frisky Radio, where there is an endless supply of great stuff. You can listen for free, or with the monthly subscription you can also download or listen offline (and without the intermittent watermark ads in the tracks).

You can either go to the link above and just start listening, or another option is to go to their "best of" pages and start clicking around:
THE YEAR IN FRISKY 2017: THE CHARTS
That's where I have found some of my favorite trance producers. For example, I really like "Voyager Deepsense". This is a link to all of their sets, and here are a few samples:
https://www.friskyradio.com/show/voyager/03-02-2017
https://www.friskyradio.com/show/voyager/03-01-2018
https://www.friskyradio.com/show/voyager/05-04-2017

Oh, and here's a few old "ektoplazm" classics that I really like (again, not for dancing to though!):
http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/phone-booth-robbers-falling-into-one
http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/globular-in-formation
http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/hinkstep-sunrise-from-the-treetops
http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/sephira-imagination-in-motion
(note: ektoplazm has it's share of bizarre stuff)


----------



## waynes world (Apr 19, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> *He means in general some buds can lose track of panning sounds from left to right, but not the Svara L’s?*



You are correct sir! But note that at the time he mentioned that to me, he wasn't comparing directly to any particular other bud. My impressions from subsequent discussions though is that the Mojito would be a good Svara L upgrade (similar sig), but that it's imaging might not be necessarily an upgrade.



> Best not to worry about it, I’ll take your word for it they sound like an awesome earbud



If that signature works for you, then yes, they are awesome. I find that they work incredibly well for the trance that I listen to. They also sound great for rock etc, but the mids do take a bit of a backseat, so I wouldn't necessary recommend them to people who like more neutral or mid-centric sigs.


----------



## waynes world

kw8910 said:


> Yay TO400S finally arrived, nice!



Don't post pictures like that! They only tempt me!

p.s. they look cool. they look like they sound cool


----------



## kw8910

waynes world said:


> Don't post pictures like that! They only tempt me!
> 
> p.s. they look cool. they look like they sound cool



They're smaller (and comfier) than I imagined, but they do look and sound very cool. Not difficult to drive despite the 400ohms. Try  to hold off til 11.11 and you'll be able to apply a few coupons, I got these for less than $60 during the anniversary sale.


----------



## seanc6441

kw8910 said:


> They're smaller (and comfier) than I imagined, but they do look and sound very cool. Not difficult to drive despite the 400ohms. Try  to hold off til 11.11 and you'll be able to apply a few coupons, I got these for less than $60 during the anniversary sale.


So what’s the sound like to your ears? And anything at a similar level to compare to?


----------



## HungryPanda

My dilemma


----------



## kw8910 (Apr 19, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> So what’s the sound like to your ears? And anything at a similar level to compare to?


 
I've only had it for an hour and I don't have anything else in the same price range so I'm not sure I'll be too helpful. HungryPanda suggested the TO400S over the EBX so I went with that. Nice details, smooth vocals, excellent soundstage and bass is to my liking. Very enjoyable so far. It came with all red donuts and all black full foams, kinda weird..I usually like to use red for right ear and black for the left but oh well, I'll dig up some monk donuts tonight.


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> My dilemma



Very nice dilemma!


----------



## seanc6441

kw8910 said:


> I've only had it for an hour and I don't have anything else in the same price range so I'm not sure I'll be too helpful. HungryPanda suggested the TO400S over the EBX so I went with that. Nice details, smooth vocals, excellent soundstage and bass is to my liking. Very enjoyable so far. It came with all red donuts and all black full foams, kinda weird..I usually like to use red for right ear and black for the left but oh well, I'll dig up some monk donuts tonight.


Excellent it sounds like an improved Toneking Tomahawk to me! Tomahawk had solid bass and a great soundstage and separation but the vocals were lacking on SOME sources. I’m hoping these are TOTL level Tomahawk 

Cannot wait to get mine soon. Ordered during the Ali sale also so it shouldn’t be too much longer.


----------



## seanc6441

@ShabtabQ bad news my diy pk2 is rattling in the left earbud. Don’t know how common this is but it’s hard for me to recommend it to you now without giving you caution!

I ironically ordered some more of these for other people so I’m hoping this is an isolated incident...


----------



## kw8910

seanc6441 said:


> Excellent it sounds like an improved Toneking Tomahawk to me! Tomahawk had solid bass and a great soundstage and separation but the vocals were lacking on SOME sources. I’m hoping these are TOTL level Tomahawk
> 
> Cannot wait to get mine soon. Ordered during the Ali sale also so it shouldn’t be too much longer.



Nice, look forward to hearing your impressions compared to BS1 and Shozy BK


----------



## seanc6441

kw8910 said:


> Nice, look forward to hearing your impressions compared to BS1 and Shozy BK


I may do a full write up in the reviews section as this bud isn’t up there yet and I’ve yet to write an ‘official’ review yet!


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> I was serious about how good I find the Svara L's are for electronica/trance, so your comments are intriguing. If you do actually think three are contenders for that genre, let me know.
> 
> A buddy suggested that the Rose Mojito might be similar (at the expense of the svara l's excellent imaging). But due to their price, they would be something that I would look at further down the road.



It's about right. the Mojito has a really wide staging  but listening to live binaural recordings, there seems to be a blind (or should I say deaf) spot right in the middle, making the soundstage incomplete. true separation might be ideal for speakers (as the room will fill the missing staging information) , but with earphones i prefer a bit of crossfeed.
the Edimun is also one example of excellent earbuds that I've found out have a panning dead zone. 

if an earphone have that dead zone, it's a big turnoff for me. 

the Svara-L on the other hand, has none of that


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 19, 2018)

chinmie said:


> It's about right. the Mojito has a really wide staging  but listening to live binaural recordings, there seems to be a blind (or should I say deaf) spot right in the middle, making the soundstage incomplete. true separation might be ideal for speakers (as the room will fill the missing staging information) , but with earphones i prefer a bit of crossfeed.
> the Edimun is also one example of excellent earbuds that I've found out have a panning dead zone.
> 
> if an earphone have that dead zone, it's a big turnoff for me.
> ...


I wonder if software crossfeed could fix that. Some devices have that option to add some crossfeed. Or is it simply a blind spot that cannot be fixed.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> I wonder if software crossfeed could fix that. Some devices have that option to add some crossfeed. Or is it simply a blind spot that cannot be fixed.



in theory software crossfeed should cure that problem. i use crossfeed software when i have to use headphones for mixing and recording


----------



## ShabtabQ

seanc6441 said:


> @ShabtabQ bad news my diy pk2 is rattling in the left earbud. Don’t know how common this is but it’s hard for me to recommend it to you now without giving you caution!
> 
> I ironically ordered some more of these for other people so I’m hoping this is an isolated incident...



How old is your pk2, i went to order and they we're charging around 6 USD just to ship so I had to wait, it's getting costly here around 27 USD, now I'm confused if I should buy.


----------



## artpiggo

Just would like to share about earpad for everyone reference. It is good to invest on this asset along with good earbud of your choice.



Sennheiser is adding thicker vocal and smooth out treble.


While ATH is letting treble as if the earbud perform like without foam. Thus making a soundstage a little wider than sen's.

Choose out your weapon.


----------



## ballog (Apr 20, 2018)

artpiggo said:


> ...Choose out your weapon.



@artpiggo  Or make your own weapon


----------



## golov17

First listening impression- Awesome gentle sound..


----------



## SweetEars

ballog said:


> @artpiggo  Or make your own weapon


how did u make this??


----------



## teston

artpiggo said:


> Just would like to share about earpad for everyone reference. It is good to invest on this asset along with good earbud of your choice.
> 
> 
> Sennheiser is adding thicker vocal and smooth out treble.
> ...


My choice is the ath foams. They keep the sound very close to foamless in my opinion.


----------



## artpiggo

teston said:


> My choice is the ath foams. They keep the sound very close to foamless in my opinion.



I agree with you. But I need more time to decide which I should use as long term.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 20, 2018)

ShabtabQ said:


> How old is your pk2, i went to order and they we're charging around 6 USD just to ship so I had to wait, it's getting costly here around 27 USD, now I'm confused if I should buy.


In purchase terms 6 months maybe, in use terms about 3 weeks of ‘used time’. Not that long.

I’ve had one before this that lasted through months and months of use without issues. Keep that in mind.

Gonna pop open the shell today to see if I can spot the issue...


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 20, 2018)

artpiggo said:


> I agree with you. But I need more time to decide which I should use as long term.


For me it depends on the earbud in question and there’s no ‘one size fits all’ foam out there that makes every earbud sound it’s best.

Even while multi hole hiegi foam is really good for me at the moment (thick spongy foam + open sound where you choose it to be open) sometimes the thin aliexpress or monk foams just sound better with certain earbuds.

They seem to be my go to choices now though buy still some of my earbuds have donuts on them. So all my new earbuds get foam rolled 4-5 times lol!


----------



## waynes world

boblauer said:


> @waynes world Are you using on the go? I have the VE black Litz cable in 2 pin for iems and sonically its nice but stiff.
> The VE espresso is the softest of the bunch so if ergonomics matter but you gotta like brown.



So you are correct. I want a black, flexible cable, and VE's black litz is stiff (like you said), the spc is silver (and springy apparently), and the expresso is not black. And it seems that most of the aliexpress cables are braided and therefore potentially not that flexible (for wearing over ears etc). Hopefully I can find an inexpensive yet decent, black, flexible, 2.5mm to mmcx balanced cable somewhere!


----------



## waynes world (Apr 20, 2018)

kw8910 said:


> I've only had it for an hour and I don't have anything else in the same price range so I'm not sure I'll be too helpful. HungryPanda suggested the TO400S over the EBX so I went with that. Nice details, smooth vocals, excellent soundstage and bass is to my liking. Very enjoyable so far. It came with all red donuts and all black full foams, kinda weird..I usually like to use red for right ear and black for the left but oh well, I'll dig up some monk donuts tonight.



I am NOT buying any more earbuds. But if I was going to, then it sounds like the TO400S would be a nice option. Or the Willsounds MK2. Good thing I don't have to make that decision, because I am NOT buying any more earbuds


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> So you are correct. I want a black, flexible cable, and VE's black litz is stiff (like you said), the spc is silver (and springy apparently), and the expresso is not black. And it seems that most of the aliexpress cables are braided and therefore potentially not that flexible (for wearing over ears etc). Hopefully I can find an inexpensive yet decent, black, flexible, 2.5mm to mmcx balanced cable somewhere!



Just get the K's 500, chop the earbuds off, and install MMCX connectors on the cable...


----------



## T light

Seanc6441 have you gotten word on when your Ks black Ling might show up?  Just saw the post service here thinks by Tuesday for mine.


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> Just get the K's 500, chop the earbuds off, and install MMCX connectors on the cable...



Darn, if only I read that earlier lol!

Based on various input I've read and received, I ended up getting the below off of aliexpress. Apparently the cable is flexible (and black!), and the price is right. Wish the interconnect was white, but that's ok:


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> Darn, if only I read that earlier lol!
> 
> Based on various input I've read and received, I ended up getting the below off of aliexpress. Apparently the cable is flexible (and black!), and the price is right. Wish the interconnect was white, but that's ok:


Hey doesn’t the Toneking TO400s come with a MMCX braided 3.5mm SE cable?


----------



## seanc6441

T light said:


> Seanc6441 have you gotten word on when your Ks black Ling might show up?  Just saw the post service here thinks by Tuesday for mine.


Hey I wasn’t checking (I usually don’t with aliexpress orders) but it says expected delivery 14-22 April but it’s still in transit. I’ll start to get excited when it arrives in my country


----------



## Carrow

Rose Masya buds currently looking like a snack. A couple of Oreos to be precise. Love these things!


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 20, 2018)

Carrow said:


> Rose Masya buds currently looking like a snack. A couple of Oreos to be precise. Love these things!


Hey turns out the Hiegi foam isn’t 100% necessary to use for the multi hole (unless the Masya’s are falling out of your ears!.. Then they would help).

I made a pair of multi hole foams using regular full foams but the most spongy/thick and pourous black foams I could find.

After grabing the best pair I made a pattern like ShabtabQ has done (5 holes concentrically and 1 in the middle) and popped em on. Loving it. Slightly more light and airy than the deeper sounding hiegi foams. The Masya has a nice quality of putting sound on two flat surfaces left and right and whilst there is depth in terms of the frequency response, the soundstage isn’t very particularly deep so you get the detail up front. I actually like this sometimes as it’s the opposite to some other buds I own. A nice change.

You end up with a very balanced punchy bass, clear mids and extended treble. A vocal earbud with great extension!


----------



## seanc6441

@Carrow what’s your source for the Masya? I’m still using my V20 daily until I get the Hiby R6.


----------



## Saoshyant

I still use either Shanling M1 or Opus 1 for Masya.


----------



## seanc6441

Nice, the Opus looks like a fantastic DAP from what I read awhile back. I'm a little scared that the dual driver and 12 ohms won't play well with the R6 output impendence but I'll have to what and see.


----------



## Saoshyant

Wasn’t it 10 for the R6?


----------



## seanc6441

Yes 

On the bright side I have it on good authority that single dynamic drivers are not really effected much. The dual dynamics may not be either, not as much as BA IEM's.


----------



## Yobster69 (Apr 20, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Yes
> 
> On the bright side I have it on good authority that single dynamic drivers are not really effected much. The dual dynamics may not be either, not as much as BA IEM's.


Hi Sean, I hope I’m wrong, but I could be the bearer of bad tidings. Well as far as the Masya and high inpredence outputs are concerned!!
I have a Little Bear B4 tube amp, and although I do not know the exact resistance of the output I know it’s quite high (around 10, though it could be higher). It plays fantastic with all of my buds, even the lower 32ohm ones, that is apart from the Masyas!!
For whatever reason they loose all coherency, things go wonky, mushy even. I haven’t given them long together as I just didn’t like the sound at all. Plug them back into my HA2 and whammo, spot on as usual. It might be the dual set up and the crossover they use???
It’s the same with my iBasso IT03’s, they sound just as bad, and what worries me is Twisters recent review of the R6, as he said the IT03’s sound crap straight out of the SE output due to the impedence of the jack, which leads me to believe you might suffer the same issue with the Masyas. It’s only an assumption, but an educated one.
All is not lost though! The IFI iEMatch solves the issue, well at least it did for the IT03’s and Twisters ears, so maybe it’s something worth considering?
I could be totally wrong though and talking cobblers, which to be honest it quite likely.


----------



## silverfishla (Apr 20, 2018)

Nice mod, boys.  I like it very much.

@seanc6441  For future reference, use the small tip of a soldering iron.  It takes 10 seconds to make a pair.


----------



## silverfishla

Yobster69 said:


> Hi Sean, I hope I’m wrong, but I could be the bearer of bad tidings. Well as far as the Masya and high inpredence outputs are concerned!!
> I have a Little Bear B4 tube amp, and although I do not know the exact resistance of the output I know it’s quite high (around 10, though it could be higher). It plays fantastic with all of my buds, even the lower 32ohm ones, that is apart from the Masyas!!
> For whatever reason they loose all coherency, things go wonky, mushy even. I haven’t given them long together as I just didn’t like the sound at all. Plug them back into my HA2 and whammo, spot on as usual. It might be the dual set up and the crossover they use???
> It’s the same with my iBasso IT03’s, they sound just as bad, and what worries me is Twisters recent review of the R6, as he said the IT03’s sound crap straight out of the SE output due to the impedence of the jack, which leads me to believe you might suffer the same issue with the Masyas. It’s only an assumption, but an educated one.
> ...


I have made this same observation using the Masyas and the Mojitos (with the Little Bear B4 and those Zishan players which seem to have high impedence).  They just don't sound good out of those devices.


----------



## seanc6441

Yobster69 said:


> Hi Sean, I hope I’m wrong, but I could be the bearer of bad tidings. Well as far as the Masya and high inpredence outputs are concerned!!
> I have a Little Bear B4 tube amp, and although I do not know the exact resistance of the output I know it’s quite high (around 10, though it could be higher). It plays fantastic with all of my buds, even the lower 32ohm ones, that is apart from the Masyas!!
> For whatever reason they loose all coherency, things go wonky, mushy even. I haven’t given them long together as I just didn’t like the sound at all. Plug them back into my HA2 and whammo, spot on as usual. It might be the dual set up and the crossover they use???
> It’s the same with my iBasso IT03’s, they sound just as bad, and what worries me is Twisters recent review of the R6, as he said the IT03’s sound crap straight out of the SE output due to the impedence of the jack, which leads me to believe you might suffer the same issue with the Masyas. It’s only an assumption, but an educated one.
> ...


The Balanced output is the same impendance right? Either way I may invest in the IFI IE Match.



silverfishla said:


> Nice mod, boys.  I like it very much.
> @seanc6441  For future reference, use the small tip of a soldering iron.  It takes 10 seconds to make a pair.


Thanks, vaguely saw that done before in a diy vid but never tried it myself. Will try it next time seems like an easy way to do it for those of us with soldering irons.


----------



## Yobster69

seanc6441 said:


> The Balanced output is the same impendance right? Either way I may invest in the IFI IE Match.
> 
> 
> Thanks, vaguely saw that done before in a diy vid but never tried it myself. Will try it next time seems like an easy way to do it for those of us with soldering irons.


The balanced output may well be the same, but I am not sure if the iEMatch is designed for balanced connections. It would be worth having a read up about it. 
When is the R6 due to arrive? I’ll be looking forward to your impressions of it.


----------



## seanc6441

Yobster69 said:


> The balanced output may well be the same, but I am not sure if the iEMatch is designed for balanced connections. It would be worth having a read up about it.
> When is the R6 due to arrive? I’ll be looking forward to your impressions of it.


No idea they seem to be behind schedule of shipping to backers after the first batch. I ordered very late on so I don't know when to expect mine to be honest.

There's a new iematch for balanced connections now by the way.


----------



## silverfishla

Yobster69 said:


> The balanced output may well be the same, but I am not sure if the iEMatch is designed for balanced connections. It would be worth having a read up about it.
> When is the R6 due to arrive? I’ll be looking forward to your impressions of it.


I have the iEMatch @seanc6441 @Yobster69 and I can say that it only sort of does what it says.  It will relieve hiss from a sensitive IEM.  It will bring back the correct dynamics for these sensitive earphones but...it kind of flattens out the "energy" of the sound too.  It kind of takes the peaks, and pushes them towards the middle, which can come across as flattening sounding.  And, it's a big drop in DB.  Just my opinion, others seem to love it and never mention what I experience.  Also, yes, it is made for single ended and Balanced configuration.  You just have to choose between  3.5mm and 2.5mm.


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Darn, if only I read that earlier lol!
> 
> Based on various input I've read and received, I ended up getting the below off of aliexpress. Apparently the cable is flexible (and black!), and the price is right. Wish the interconnect was white, but that's ok:



I hate this kind of post (opening wallet while sighing  )


----------



## artpiggo

@seanc6441 why not get ibasso dx150 instead?


----------



## chinmie

silverfishla said:


> I have the iEMatch @seanc6441 @Yobster69 and I can say that it only sort of does what it says.  It will relieve hiss from a sensitive IEM.  It will bring back the correct dynamics for these sensitive earphones but...it kind of flattens out the "energy" of the sound too.  It kind of takes the peaks, and pushes them towards the middle, which can come across as flattening sounding.  And, it's a big drop in DB.  Just my opinion, others seem to love it and never mention what I experience.  Also, yes, it is made for single ended and Balanced configuration.  You just have to choose between  3.5mm and 2.5mm.



Agreed, the ie match or earbuddy will smoothen the attack a little bit, giving them a warm tube-y feel to it. Really useful for earphones that are fatiguing or having too brash dynamics.


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> I hate this kind of post (opening wallet while sighing  )



Even a tiny amount of payback is sweet!


----------



## TLDRonin

Just received my **** PT15 s, and wow, I cannot believe these were only $11. The silver cable that came with it is worth like $7 by itself, so this really does feel like a steal.


My only regret is not getting some thin foams. The included foams are a little too thick and make them too big, and using them without foams hurts my ears because of the hard edges.


----------



## kw8910

chinmie said:


> I hate this kind of post (opening wallet while sighing  )



I just received these cables and used them for a few hours and they’re great, I don’t think anyone would be disappointed for the price. Surprisingly thick but light enough, and very supple/easy for over ear use. Sound wise it feels like there’s more detail and better soundstage (even over the 8-core stock T2 cable). Only thing that remains to be seen is durability but I’m liking it so far!


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 21, 2018)

artpiggo said:


> @seanc6441 why not get ibasso dx150 instead?


I liked the features of the R6. Great screen, spotify and google play store support. Bypasses android sampling rate limitation for streaming apps. Best SQ for the first price quite possibly.

Reviews were comparing it to DX200 and X7ii which are both $200+ more expensive

I may have to settle for the Hiby R3 and use that for my earbuds, and get an amp if I ever want to power full size cans.


----------



## acap13

seanc6441 said:


> I liked the features of the R6. Great screen, spotify and google play store support. Bypasses android sampling rate limitation for streaming apps. Best SQ for the first price quite possibly.
> 
> Reviews were comparing it to DX200 and X7ii which are both $200+ more expensive
> 
> I may have to settle for the Hiby R3 and use that for my earbuds, and get an amp if I ever want to power full size cans.



I have not heard the R6 yet but own a DX200 with Amp 5. Compared it to a AK380 in a store and found out both are comparable and one is not better than the other IMHO. AK380 has more warmth and organic on midrange and bass is more prominent ( tube-ish like ) while DX200 more strive on neutrality with wider soundstage and more resolution. There you go my recommendation for either DX200 or more lower priced and newly released DX150. Have read the raving reviews on the R6 and I believe it is pretty great dap for the price too. I hope you wont have any issue with it being 10 ohm output impedance be it with your low impedance earbuds and sensitive IEMs. Other than that, they are all great players to choose nowadays for a small chunk.


----------



## artpiggo

seanc6441 said:


> I liked the features of the R6. Great screen, spotify and google play store support. Bypasses android sampling rate limitation for streaming apps. Best SQ for the first price quite possibly.
> 
> Reviews were comparing it to DX200 and X7ii which are both $200+ more expensive
> 
> I may have to settle for the Hiby R3 and use that for my earbuds, and get an amp if I ever want to power full size cans.



I have tried both devices and I find DX150 is even better in dynamics, bass impact and soundstage. but it is your choice/money though. 

DX150 has the nearly same feature though.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 21, 2018)

artpiggo said:


> I have tried both devices and I find DX150 is even better in dynamics, bass impact and soundstage. but it is your choice/money though.
> 
> DX150 has the nearly same feature though.


Thanks I’ll look into it!

Edit: Oh I see it’s brand new... Looks promising. Good price too. Thank you very much for this recommendation.


----------



## chinmie

just got back from meeting my friends and tried the Toneking TO400s, Shozy Cygnus LE, and Simphonio Dragon 2 plus (and other Indo buds). here's my short impression on them:
TO400s - nice warm sound, good detail, although the treble is a bit rolled off for my taste. great cable
Shozy Cygnus LE - larger staging than the regular cygnus, more closer signature to BK, but the BK have faster attack
SD2+ - wide and exceptional staging and separation. balanced sound presentation


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> just got back from meeting my friends and tried the Toneking TO400s, Shozy Cygnus LE, and Simphonio Dragon 2 plus (and other Indo buds). here's my short impression on them:
> TO400s - nice warm sound, good detail, although the treble is a bit rolled off for my taste. great cable
> Shozy Cygnus LE - larger staging than the regular cygnus, more closer signature to BK, but the BK have faster attack
> SD2+ - wide and exceptional staging and separation. balanced sound presentation


Surprising for a Toneking bud to lack treble 

Did they have foams on them while you were checking them out?


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Surprising for a Toneking bud to lack treble
> 
> Did they have foams on them while you were checking them out?



full foams. it's not that it lacks treble compared to other buds, just not extended enough for me. in fact the treble is much more mature than the tomahawk that i found too fatiguing (all off my friends don't like the older Tonekings). if it was mine, i think i would use thin foams on them


----------



## ctaxxxx

chinmie said:


> just got back from meeting my friends and tried the Toneking TO400s, Shozy Cygnus LE, and Simphonio Dragon 2 plus (and other Indo buds). here's my short impression on them:
> TO400s - nice warm sound, good detail, although the treble is a bit rolled off for my taste. great cable
> Shozy Cygnus LE - larger staging than the regular cygnus, more closer signature to BK, but the BK have faster attack
> SD2+ - wide and exceptional staging and separation. balanced sound presentation



Any comparisons to the Liebesleid? I'll have mine in soon.

Edit: with the SD2+


----------



## chinmie

ctaxxxx said:


> Any comparisons to the Liebesleid? I'll have mine in soon.
> 
> Edit: with the SD2+



liebesleid have more treble extension, more upfront sound, while the SD2+ have a more laidback/relaxed presentation. SQ wise i feel they are on the same level)


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> full foams. it's not that it lacks treble compared to other buds, just not extended enough for me. in fact the treble is much more mature than the tomahawk that i found too fatiguing (all off my friends don't like the older Tonekings). if it was mine, i think i would use thin foams on them


That’s what I’ll do thanks, I like extended treble without any peaks but I’ll settle for a little roll off with thin aliexpress foams for this one. Excited to try it with a balanced I bought.


----------



## kw8910 (Apr 21, 2018)

Really enjoying vocals with the TO400S


----------



## kw8910

chinmie said:


> just got back from meeting my friends and tried the Toneking TO400s, Shozy Cygnus LE, and Simphonio Dragon 2 plus (and other Indo buds). here's my short impression on them:
> TO400s - nice warm sound, good detail, although the treble is a bit rolled off for my taste. great cable
> Shozy Cygnus LE - larger staging than the regular cygnus, more closer signature to BK, but the BK have faster attack
> SD2+ - wide and exceptional staging and separation. balanced sound presentation



You look to be right about the rolled off treble, though it’s easy on the ears for extended listening. Here’s frequency graph I got from the seller, it’s hard to tell much from it since this is earbud graph but the highs do taper off


----------



## Carrow

seanc6441 said:


> @Carrow what’s your source for the Masya? I’m still using my V20 daily until I get the Hiby R6.



Cayin N3, high gain with volume around 40. Mid gain is enough I think but I'm enjoying the added oomph! Masya are hella comfortable actually, I have no issue leaving them in while sleeping


----------



## subwoof3r

Some new more impressions about difference of Willsound MK1 rev2 versus MK2 rev2 : MK1 sounstage and presentation is like you listen to a concert but very far. On the MK2 you live the concert and almost is in the scene with artists.

Instrument separation is way better on MK1.

MK1 is definitely a more relaxing earbud, it can be listened at high volume all the time without any fatigue at all (which is for me exceptional).

Really, I like both of them for now. I enjoy switching between them.

They are both excellent for vocals (with a tad preference for MK1).

MK2 even if it lacks EMX500S sub-bass, finally does not need that at all as it excels better in every single other domains. WIllsound earbuds are much more transparent and natural sounding than the EMX500S.

Willsound buds never sound harsh or sibilant. They are absolutely amazingly and brilliantly tuned.

Those WIllsound products definitely should be much more considerate. They are now my favorite buds from all time!

Although MK3 does not tempt me (maybe if a rev2?), I will keep a serious eye on willsound updated products in the future!

Hope this helps a bit,

Cheers’


----------



## gazzington

seanc6441 said:


> Thanks I’ll look into it!
> 
> Edit: Oh I see it’s brand new... Looks promising. Good price too. Thank you very much for this recommendation.


To be honest I think if i could i would cancel my r6 order now and get the ibasso dx150 instead. Don't think I can cancel my order though


----------



## seanc6441

Carrow said:


> Cayin N3, high gain with volume around 40. Mid gain is enough I think but I'm enjoying the added oomph! Masya are hella comfortable actually, I have no issue leaving them in while sleeping


I assume you do not sleep on your side or you’d have a painful nights sleep with the bulky masya’s. They are very comfortable but I couldn’t rest them against a pillow without significant discomfort.


----------



## seanc6441

gazzington said:


> To be honest I think if i could i would cancel my r6 order now and get the ibasso dx150 instead. Don't think I can cancel my order though


There’s more than a few impressions though, I’ve read most of the R6 thread and all the DX150 thread. If you prefer the AK dacs then maybe the DX150 will be better, R6 is competing at a slightly higher level detail wise apperantly but has less warmth and thickness to the sound. Although for a sabre dac apperantly R6 is full bodied.

Also many seem to suggest that the DX150 will leave you wanting the superior DX200...

So many opinions 

Right now I care most about the high impendance effecting my earbuds and the overall SQ. On that grounds I may cancel the R6 or sell it on if I cannot.

Would need an answer in the R6 forum about Rose Masya/Mojito + R6 impressions if anyone has it. If it can play nicely with thise earbuds it can work with any earbud.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 21, 2018)

kw8910 said:


> You look to be right about the rolled off treble, though it’s easy on the ears for extended listening. Here’s frequency graph I got from the seller, it’s hard to tell much from it since this is earbud graph but the highs do taper off


Hard to tell if earbud graphs are at all accurate. Could the bass reallybe that flat?... High’s look rolled slowly but nicely linear. It all looks like a more linear shozy bk in the lows to mids but slightly falters in the upper frequencies, not too dissimilar to the BK though! Yet in practice the BK has ample treble to my ears.

Although if you cut off from 16khz onwards the BK is just really linear with a slight emphasis on the low end, whereas the TO400 is recessed in the upper mids and mid treble. But overall it’s a good response it seems.

I’d pair it with a bright source and see how neutral it can sound 






Shozy bk (red)


----------



## vladstef

seanc6441 said:


> Hard to tell if earbud graphs are at all accurate. Could the bass reallybe that flat?... High’s look rolled slowly but nicely linear. It all looks like a more linear shozy bk in the lows to mids but slightly falters in the upper frequencies, not too dissimilar to the BK though! Yet in practice the BK has ample treble to my ears.
> 
> Although if you cut off from 16khz onwards the BK is just really linear with a slight emphasis on the low end, whereas the TO400 is recessed in the upper mids and mid treble. But overall it’s a good response it seems.
> 
> ...



Earbud drivers are generally really good at being flat in the bass - when measured with isolation (IEM style). I kinda think that this ~15mm is a perfect size for DD to show how flat they can get in the lower frequencies - something that appears to be much harder to do with IEM/headphone drivers.


----------



## seanc6441

vladstef said:


> Earbud drivers are generally really good at being flat in the bass - when measured with isolation (IEM style). I kinda think that this ~15mm is a perfect size for DD to show how flat they can get in the lower frequencies - something that appears to be much harder to do with IEM/headphone drivers.


Although it seems to extend flat to and possibly lower than 20hz which is impressive sub bass. I’ll have to hear it for myself and see how deep it sounds


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> I liked the features of the R6. Great screen, spotify and google play store support. Bypasses android sampling rate limitation for streaming apps.


So, it will bypass the sampling rate limitation for lossy Spotify streams?  (Sorry, couldn't resist).  
The Hiby6 is a great little player for the price.  There are some annoying things about it (lags with Tidal, problems with displaying album art for saved files, very heavy), but its features punch way above its price range.  I received the FAAEAL Narcissus a week or so ago, and am really enjoying those buds with the Hiby - they take the edge of the Hiby's brightness.


----------



## Carrow

seanc6441 said:


> I assume you do not sleep on your side or you’d have a painful nights sleep with the bulky masya’s. They are very comfortable but I couldn’t rest them against a pillow without significant discomfort.



Correct, I sleep on my stomach


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 21, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> So, it will bypass the sampling rate limitation for lossy Spotify streams?  (Sorry, couldn't resist).
> The Hiby6 is a great little player for the price.  There are some annoying things about it (lags with Tidal, problems with displaying album art for saved files, very heavy), but its features punch way above its price range.  I received the FAAEAL Narcissus a week or so ago, and am really enjoying those buds with the Hiby - they take the edge of the Hiby's brightness.


Well it may not be pure lossless but if it’s better than the competition that is feed through android limitations it’s on the ‘pro’s’ list for me. How much better I have no idea. But I liked the R6 as a whole package other than the high OI.

You have the R6 in hand right? Got any dual dynamic earbuds to test on it? I’m wondering if my Masya and others will play well on it. If not I’ll be looking for a new dap.


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> You have the R6 in hand right? Got any dual dynamic earbuds to test on it? I’m wondering if my Masya and others will play well on it. If not I’ll be looking for a new dap.


Yes, I do.  Not sure about dual driver earbuds; if I do have any, they are not in the current rotation and I haven’t listened to them for quite some time.  What is the concern?  Output impedance?  When using the Hiby as a source at home I use the lineout and an external amp with multi BA IEMs.  For portable use the hiss isn’t noticeable to me because of ambient noise.  Sound signature?  The Hiby has an equalizer.  (Personally I don’t use an equalizer, ever, but different strokes for different folks).


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 21, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> Yes, I do.  Not sure about dual driver earbuds; if I do have any, they are not in the current rotation and I haven’t listened to them for quite some time.  What is the concern?  Output impedance?  When using the Hiby as a source at home I use the lineout and an external amp with multi BA IEMs.  For portable use the hiss isn’t noticeable to me because of ambient noise.  Sound signature?  The Hiby has an equalizer.  (Personally I don’t use an equalizer, ever, but different strokes for different folks).


Sadly the EQ doesn’t work with spotify (atleast currently) but you say there is hiss with earbuds if you listen closely enough?


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> Sadly the EQ doesn’t work with spotify (atleast currently) but you say there is hiss with earbuds if you listen closely enough?


Nope, there is hiss with multi BA IEMs.


----------



## golov17

chinmie said:


> SD2+ - wide and exceptional staging and separation. balanced sound presentation



 .. the more I listen to D2 + the more I love what I hear - universal TOTL for a variety of genres of music. Great work from Simphonio!


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> .. the more I listen to D2 + the more I love what I hear - *universal TOTL for a variety of genres of music. *Great work from Simphonio!



Very true. The best part of SWD2+ is probably that it is the least genre specific of all the ToTL earbuds currently in the market.


----------



## siderak

Just got my Willsound MK2's about an hour ago. 
Obviously not burned in but work on everything so far.

With included foams:
They have a very relaxed natural sound. 
They are fairly detailed, articulate enough to hear everything but not clinical. 
Plenty of warmth. Prominent bass but not overly done.
Musical not analytical. 
Soundstage isn't huge but still wide enough and quite immersive.
Definitely a step up from anything else I've heard under $50, maybe more.

Without foams:
More instrument separation.
More detail but still coherent, enjoyable. 
Soundstage is a tad wider. 

I'm going to try monk thin foams. 
I have a good feeling about that.

No comparisons to anything else for at least a week or two but...
I like 'em. I really do.


----------



## chinmie

golov17 said:


> .. the more I listen to D2 + the more I love what I hear - universal TOTL for a variety of genres of music. Great work from Simphonio!





ClieOS said:


> Very true. The best part of SWD2+ is probably that it is the least genre specific of all the ToTL earbuds currently in the market.



Yup, very easy to listen to. That jack of all trade characteristics can be a high point (or low to some people), but to someone who wants only one TOTL earbuds to every genre, this is a great one


----------



## chinmie

siderak said:


> Just got my Willsound MK2's about an hour ago.
> Obviously not burned in but work on everything so far.
> 
> With included foams:
> ...



I use my MK2 with thin foams. Great detail without loosing bass


----------



## siderak

chinmie said:


> I use my MK2 with thin foams. Great detail without loosing bass


Wow no kidding. 
That sure tuned everything right in!
Daaaaaang! 
For $42 usd shipping included...
I havent heard anything else under 75 these don’t better imo.


----------



## chinmie

siderak said:


> Wow no kidding.
> That sure tuned everything right in!
> Daaaaaang!
> For $42 usd shipping included...
> I havent heard anything else under 75 these don’t better imo.



Fun fact, willy (creator of willsound) also seems to sell his MK2 with thin foams fitted


----------



## siderak

chinmie said:


> Fun fact, willy (creator of willsound) also seems to sell his MK2 with thin foams fitted



I think I’m ok saying this,
$30 earbuds have no right to sound this good. I’m hearing layers. More depth. 
They don’t sound like a retuned version of anything else either.


----------



## acap13 (Apr 22, 2018)

siderak said:


> I think I’m ok saying this,
> $30 earbuds have no right to sound this good. I’m hearing layers. More depth.
> They don’t sound like a retuned version of anything else either.



I have my eyes on the MK2 since long time ago but havent pushed the button yet. Still gathering more information and plenty are useful. Curious to know which earbud starts to show MK2 upper limit in your collection?
Currently, I have got a Blur 300 and its a pretty solid bud on its own. Love the huge and deep soundstage accompanied by beguiling midrange response especially on the vocals department. This thing wont hurt your ears even you try to crank up the volume. It just getting bigger and bolder.


----------



## Razorbud (Apr 22, 2018)

Hey guys, I'm not sure if this is the correct place to ask but here goes:

Do any of your have any experience with these high impedance earbuds and can give your opinions/comparisons on them? If you have any to recommend, please do so! My budget is around $25 but am willing to bump it up to $50. I've not been able to find a lot of reviews for some of the high impedance earbuds. Will be pairing with an O2 amp. I have a preference for the pk2 shells over the mx500 ones but it seems that I can't find any high impedance ones with the pk2 shells.

Here's what I've been thinking of so far:
seahf awk-150c
niceHCK EB200
FAAEAAL narcissus
FAAEAL 150
K's K300 (Non samsara)
TY Hi-Z 150

Lastly, as to why high impedance, I already have a couple of the ones recommended here, such as the vido, emx500, monk+, etc but would love to play around with one or two high impedance ones to see how they're like. I don't have a specific sound signature that I'm looking for, so if any of you who have experience with any of these can describe them, then that's really all I need. I've looked at tonekings but they're a little over budget atm.

Thank you 

EDIT: Missed out some options!


----------



## siderak

acap13 said:


> I have my eyes on the MK2 since long time ago but havent pushed the button yet. Still gathering more information and plenty are useful. Curious to know which earbud starts to show MK2 upper limit in your collection?
> Currently, I have got a Blur 300 and its a pretty solid bud on its own. Love the huge and deep soundstage accompanied by beguiling midrange response especially on the vocals department. This thing wont hurt your ears even you try to crank up the volume. It just getting bigger and bolder.



I don't think you can go wrong with these.
They are very engaging. 
Keep in mind I've only had them for a couple of hours but yeah...
What stands out for me as far as the Blurs are concerned is clarity.
and those phenomenal mids. 
I love that.
The MK2's are not neutral. Not unclear but they are V'ish. Very fun sound.
I'm listening to late 70's early 80's jazz funk (Don Blackman) which isn't my go to genre but these sound so delicious with that stuff...
Anything groove oriented with live bass and smooth funky analog synth is killing it right now. Sound is very wide around me. 
I know I like these better than K's 300 Samsara but I can't say much else at this point. 
Now I'm curious about Willsound's PK32.


----------



## Guggga (Apr 22, 2018)

Ive been grooving to the willsound mk3 with tidal on my lg v20. They have excellent seperation and imaging. The guitars sound very crunchy and are outside the vocals. Nice full sound. The driver is faster than my earlier mk2 special edition, the bass impact is immense. No sibilance yet clear and detailed sound.


----------



## Guggga

subwoof3r said:


> Some new more impressions about difference of Willsound MK1 rev2 versus MK2 rev2 : MK1 sounstage and presentation is like you listen to a concert but very far. On the MK2 you live the concert and almost is in the scene with artists.
> 
> Instrument separation is way better on MK1.
> 
> ...




Burn in really opens up the mk1 rev 2. Like you noted, they have excellent seperation and everytime I hear them, I focus on the music.

The mk3 are excellent too, fun detailed and punchy full sound. They have more seperation, depth, wider syaging and impact than my ver 1 mk2 special edition.

The good thing is that all the willsounds are tuned differently and they're all fun to hear. I got three, waiting for the rest now.


----------



## siderak

Guggga said:


> Ive been grooving to the willsound mk3 with tidal on my lg v20. They have excellent seperation and imaging. The guitars sound very crunchy and are outside the vocals. Nice full sound. The driver is faster than my earlier mk2 special edition, the bass impact is immense. No sibilance yet clear and detailed sound.



I believe it!
Is your mk2 earlier than mine by chance? I have the black cable version...
I mean, the transients are showing up at the right time the right way. 
I wouldn't say these drivers are ultra fast but not slow either. 
Kind of just right as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Guggga (Apr 22, 2018)

siderak said:


> I believe it!
> Is your mk2 earlier than mine by chance? I have the black cable version...
> I mean, the transients are showing up at the right time the right way.
> I wouldn't say these drivers are ultra fast but not slow either.
> Kind of just right as far as I'm concerned.



Yes, mine are the older version. They are super fun and really envelope me in their sound. Discontinued now. The new versions seem to be tuned for a faster response and more seperation. Here's a pic


----------



## Townyj (Apr 22, 2018)

@siderak I like how your pricing has risen slowly haha


----------



## siderak

Guggga said:


> Yes, mine are the older version. They are super fun and really envelope me in their sound. Discontinued now. The new versions seem to be tuned for a faster response and more seperation.



Wow.
I got these because I wanted something decent sounding that I didn't need to worry about taking care of too much.
These aren't that.
These are just extremely inexpensive for what they are imo.
lovin 'em


----------



## Guggga

.


----------



## siderak

Townyj said:


> @siderak I like how your pricing has risen slowly haha


Ha ha So true!
I needed that.


----------



## Guggga

siderak said:


> Wow.
> I got these because I wanted something decent sounding that I didn't need to worry about taking care of too much.
> These aren't that.
> These are just extremely inexpensive for what they are imo.
> lovin 'em


I love the willsound house sound too. They give me eargasmsssss


----------



## siderak

Guggga said:


> I love the willsound house sound too. They give me eargasmsssss



they are kinda dirty in the best sense...multi eargasmic
the willsound house sound is a very welcome surprise. 
expectations surpassed


----------



## Townyj

siderak said:


> they are kinda dirty in the best sense...multi eargasmic
> the willsound house sound is a very welcome surprise.
> expectations surpassed



I have the MK2 and MK3 in my cart right now.. Been a while since i purchased some buds. Gonna sell off my Diomnes and Raven soon i think. Lets see what happens.


----------



## Guggga

Now listening to the mk2 special edition.

The mk1 rev 2 is like a single malt, smooth and refined. The mk3 is like weed , smooth refined and spacious sounding. The mk2 rev 2 is definitely high on cocain, exuberant and energetic - not as detailed as the other two, but super super fun.


----------



## siderak

Was out walking my dog listening to Boom Boom.
All of the sudden I thought I heard someone walk up on me from behind. 
It was John Lee tapping his foot.
THAT’s never happened before. 
Anyone hear stuff behind you with the mk2 rev 2 or any other earbud?


----------



## acap13

siderak said:


> I don't think you can go wrong with these.
> They are very engaging.
> Keep in mind I've only had them for a couple of hours but yeah...
> What stands out for me as far as the Blurs are concerned is clarity.
> ...



I should have seen your signature before asking. Those are some sick collections you have. Salute. Blur is not bad based on your order of preference. No 2 and above HD800S is not bad at all. I'm impressed with MK2 by the way you described it and I think, based on your collections I could allign that our taste are more or less the same. It also happens that I own Edimun Rhodium too, do you think MK2 is still relevant to get ( let alone the Blur as it totally different signature ) despite being most affordable of the 3 ?


----------



## siderak

Townyj said:


> I have the MK2 and MK3 in my cart right now.. Been a while since i purchased some buds. Gonna sell off my Diomnes and Raven soon i think. Lets see what happens.



I think it’s gonna be aaaalright...


----------



## Townyj

Ok ok.. i caved in and ordered the MK2/MK3. Sorry wallet.


----------



## Guggga

Yes, that happens on the mk3 as well as these earbuds have a black background. I was listening to thunderstruck and I was startled and looked over my shoulder when Brian starts growling in the beginning!


----------



## waynes world

You guys are killing me!


----------



## siderak (Apr 22, 2018)

acap13 said:


> I should have seen your signature before asking. Those are some sick collections you have. Salute. Blur is not bad based on your order of preference. No 2 and above HD800S is not bad at all. I'm impressed with MK2 by the way you described it and I think, based on your collections I could allign that our taste are more or less the same. It also happens that I own Edimun Rhodium too, do you think MK2 is still relevant to get ( let alone the Blur as it totally different signature ) despite being most affordable of the 3 ?



Thanks! Salute to you!
My personal ranking is only my opinion based on what I find myself reaching for but
as Guggga mentioned above, the mk2 is very fun. I do find it to be quite resolving though too.
I also feel strongly it’s at least a level (maybe 2) above the edimun v3 rhodium as far as sound is concerned. It could very well be what you want the edimun to be. 
I don’t think it would make you unhappy.


----------



## siderak

Townyj said:


> Ok ok.. i caved in and ordered the MK2/MK3. Sorry wallet.



I’m think I’ll order the mk1 and mk3 tomorrow. 
Very interested to hear your thoughts when they arrive!


----------



## siderak

Guggga said:


> Yes, that happens on the mk3 as well as these earbuds have a black background. I was listening to thunderstruck and I was startled and looked over my shoulder when Brian starts growling in the beginning!


Happened on other songs earlier too. 
It’s creepy!


----------



## siderak

waynes world said:


> You guys are killing me!



My wife is going to kill me if she finds out how many earbuds I’ve ordered this week. 
She’s already got that nervous smile thing going.


----------



## Townyj

siderak said:


> I’m think I’ll order the mk1 and mk3 tomorrow.
> Very interested to hear your thoughts when they arrive!



I like the look of the MK1 but didn't go ahead with it as im not a fan of very warm sounding earbuds/headphones at all.

Definitely will throw out some info on the MK2/MK3 when they arrive via snail mail


----------



## Guggga

siderak said:


> Thanks! Salute to you!
> My personal ranking is only my opinion based on what I find myself reaching for but
> as Guggga mentioned above, the mk2 is very fun. I do find it to be quite resolving though too.
> I also feel strongly it’s at least a level (maybe 2) above the edimun v3 rhodium as far as sound is concerned. It could very well be what you want the edimun to be.
> I don’t think it would make you unhappy.



I got them together, sold the edimed v3 rho within a week. 

Right now listening to Hallowed be thy name, Cradle of Filth version after years on the mk3. The seperation , layering, speed and vocals are fantastic.


----------



## chaiyuta

It seems Edifier H180 is very popular for modding cause many DIYers make it on thier own tuning. I can't resist myself but purchased the stock one to try how does it sound, and I will further mod it later.


----------



## DBaldock9

Guggga said:


> I got them together, sold the edimed v3 rho within a week.
> 
> Right now listening to Hallowed be thy name, Cradle of Filth version after years on the mk3. The seperation , layering, speed and vocals are fantastic.



If the LED is too bright on your Z2, you can replace the series resistor with a larger one - I used a 20KΩ, and it has dimmed the LED quite a bit.


----------



## Guggga

Townyj said:


> I like the look of the MK1 but didn't go ahead with it as im not a fan of very warm sounding earbuds/headphones at all.
> 
> Definitely will throw out some info on the MK2/MK3 when they arrive via snail mail



The mk1 aren't warm sounding at all. They just don't have extenrde trebel, clear without sibilance. They have excellent seperation and imaging.. Need some burn in to shine.


----------



## Guggga

DBaldock9 said:


> If the LED is too bright on your Z2, you can replace the series resistor with a larger one - I used a 20KΩ, and it has dimmed the LED quite a bit.


Thanks David  but I suck at diy. Also my primary source is the lg v20 now, which became a favorite once i installed the usb audio Pro player app which bypasses the android downsampling by engaging the quad dac directly and also fixes the earlier weird thin trebely signature of the v20. That along with tidal, lush!


----------



## acap13

siderak said:


> Thanks! Salute to you!
> My personal ranking is only my opinion based on what I find myself reaching for but
> as Guggga mentioned above, the mk2 is very fun. I do find it to be quite resolving though too.
> I also feel strongly it’s at least a level (maybe 2) above the edimun v3 rhodium as far as sound is concerned. It could very well be what you want the edimun to be.
> I don’t think it would make you unhappy.



Thanks for making it easier. Others finding are appreciated too. And one of us or more are going to be poor by $42 very soon.


----------



## acap13

waynes world said:


> You guys are killing me!



ikr. I know how you feel
Everybody is killing each other here as long as this thread keep coming alive. Lol


----------



## DBaldock9

Guggga said:


> Thanks David  but I suck at diy. Also my primary source is the lg v20 now, which became a favorite once i installed the usb audio Pro player app which bypasses the android downsampling by engaging the quad dac directly and also fixes the earlier weird thin trebely signature of the v20. That along with tidal, lush!



I've got an LG V20 on order, to replace a Google Nexus 5 (2013).  About half a dozen of my earbuds are higher than 100Ω, so they should work well with the V20.


----------



## Guggga

DBaldock9 said:


> I've got an LG V20 on order, to replace a Google Nexus 5 (2013).  About half a dozen of my earbuds are higher than 100Ω, so they should work well with the V20.



Oh yeah, the v20 has plenty grunt to drive high impedance buds. Look forward to hearing your impressions David!


----------



## chinmie (Apr 22, 2018)

@siderak @Guggga  i like the fact that t
your descriptions and reactions to the MK1 and MK2 are similar to mine, which means the Willsound have a consistent build and also that we have similar taste in sound. I also rate the MK2 higher than the Edimun (sold mine), Samsara (on listening enjoyment), and even the Diomnes Lv2.

The MK1 (and the lesser well known 300ohm Willsound) did benefit from burn in while the MK2 is great from the get go. The raw sound of the MK2.. Well, you have to hear it for yourself. There are other that have the MK2 EQ characteristic, but none i have heard so far have that intense raw sound.


----------



## HungryPanda

I really do appreciate my Willsound Mk2, my wife is waiting on delivery of Mk1


----------



## chinmie

siderak said:


> My wife is going to kill me if she finds out how many earbuds I’ve ordered this week.
> She’s already got that nervous smile thing going.



Well, my wife bought me a small utility box for me to store my earphones because she thought me storing them in multiple small cases was messy and i often have to open most of them to find a specific ones (i did label them, but sometimes mixed them up on different cases accidentally).. Well i thought how sweet that is...

but then when I'm putting them on the new box (mind you i already trimmed down my collection to as minimum as possible), she gave me this look and said: wow.. Never thought you have that many..

Talk about emotional entrapment ￼￼
And the worst part is i think i need another box!


----------



## Saoshyant

At some point I should take an inventory of earbuds.  And something tells me after I do i might sell quite a bit of them


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> Well, my wife bought me a small utility box for me to store my earphones because she thought me storing them in multiple small cases was messy and i often have to open most of them to find a specific ones (i did label them, but sometimes mixed them up on different cases accidentally).. Well i thought how sweet that is...
> 
> but then when I'm putting them on the new box (mind you i already trimmed down my collection to as minimum as possible), she gave me this look and said: wow.. Never thought you have that many..
> 
> ...


One for earbuds and one for IEM’s is only fair


----------



## Saoshyant

Those of you with fairly sizeable collections, how many buds do you own that you know you’d never sell/trade?  At least with how you feel about them for now.

I’m trying to think of what I feel I’d need to keep.  I think maybe 9 out of my collection would have to stay.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> One for earbuds and one for IEM’s is only fair



thanks, I'll make sure i pass that idea to my wife


----------



## chinmie

Saoshyant said:


> Those of you with fairly sizeable collections, how many buds do you own that you know you’d never sell/trade?  At least with how you feel about them for now.
> 
> I’m trying to think of what I feel I’d need to keep.  I think maybe 9 out of my collection would have to stay.



bare minimum, i think I'll keep 3 earbuds and 3 iems (like my signature). if pushing it further, 2 of each might still do-able


----------



## ClieOS

Saoshyant said:


> Those of you with fairly sizeable collections, how many buds do you own that you know you’d never sell/trade?  At least with how you feel about them for now.
> 
> I’m trying to think of what I feel I’d need to keep.  I think maybe 9 out of my collection would have to stay.



Guess I am probably not the best person to ask this question as I have yet to sell any and have no plan to ever do so. Think I might have just a little over 200 pairs by now.


----------



## Saoshyant

Yep, you and Golov I had no real expectations for ever selling.  But your insight has always been invaluable among the rest of us.


----------



## golov17

Well, I must learn to at least not buy reserve pairs ..


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 22, 2018)

golov17 said:


> Well, I must learn to at least not buy reserve pairs ..


first steps are always the hardest


----------



## chinmie

golov17 said:


> Well, I must learn to at least not buy reserve pairs ..



soo...how many simphonio dragon 2 did you buy?


----------



## golov17

chinmie said:


> soo...how many simphonio dragon 2 did you buy?


I wanted reserved LPG )))


----------



## siderak

chinmie said:


> Well, my wife bought me a small utility box for me to store my earphones because she thought me storing them in multiple small cases was messy and i often have to open most of them to find a specific ones (i did label them, but sometimes mixed them up on different cases accidentally).. Well i thought how sweet that is...
> 
> but then when I'm putting them on the new box (mind you i already trimmed down my collection to as minimum as possible), she gave me this look and said: wow.. Never thought you have that many..
> 
> ...



Is it the worst part? Or...the best part!


----------



## siderak

chinmie said:


> bare minimum, i think I'll keep 3 earbuds and 3 iems (like my signature). if pushing it further, 2 of each might still do-able



It would be irresponsible of me just sit back and watch you keep lying to yourself like this...


----------



## siderak

ClieOS said:


> Guess I am probably not the best person to ask this question as I have yet to sell any and have no plan to ever do so. Think I might have just a little over 200 pairs by now.



Nonsense!
You are THE best person to ask. 
The truth hurts for some but it’s the truth! 
Sometimes quick sometimes slow, eventually it catches up!


----------



## doggiemom

Saoshyant said:


> Those of you with fairly sizeable collections, how many buds do you own that you know you’d never sell/trade?  At least with how you feel about them for now.
> .


I'd only sell those that I really hate.  On the other hand, I'd feel bad about taking someone's money for something I really hate, so probably none.    I'm a bit of a hoarder....... I mean, collector.  I have more books in my basement than one person could possibly read in a lifetime.


----------



## Saoshyant

doggiemom said:


> I'd only sell those that I really hate.  On the other hand, I'd feel bad about taking someone's money for something I really hate, so probably none.    I'm a bit of a hoarder....... I mean, collector.  I have more books in my basement than one person could possibly read in a lifetime.



Sometimes I feel a need to purge.  I think at my worst with movies I had around 3000 or so, but shrunk that down quite a bit in a mood or sorts.  As for earbuds, there are quite a few I haven't touched in quite some time, even though I enjoy them.  I've probably only used my Mojito a couple times in the past year or so, and the Zen 2 even less.  It makes me wonder if maybe they'd be better suited sold to someone more interested while I reinvest in something else.


----------



## ctaxxxx

lol I'm the complete opposite of everyone here. I can't stand having too many options of anything. I just narrow it to something smooth and musical, then something precise and analytical.



doggiemom said:


> I'd only sell those that I really hate.  On the other hand, I'd feel bad about taking someone's money for something I really hate, so probably none.    I'm a bit of a hoarder....... I mean, collector.  I have more books in my basement than one person could possibly read in a lifetime.



Some people end up liking those things. I hated the Noble Audio Dulce Bass IEM, almost to the point I thought I was scammed with a fake one,  but the person I sold it to loved them. I guess tastes really do differ.


----------



## seanc6441

doggiemom said:


> I'd only sell those that I really hate.  On the other hand, I'd feel bad about taking someone's money for something I really hate, so probably none.    I'm a bit of a hoarder....... I mean, collector.  I have more books in my basement than one person could possibly read in a lifetime.


As the saying goes, one mans meat is another mans poison!

I guarantee for every bud you dislike there’s atleast a few if us who like em. If I sold my graphenes because I don’t like them there’s plenty who would enjoy them a lot.


----------



## BrianLHR (Apr 22, 2018)

been lurking around and decided on making a jump at either liebesleid/svara l/nicehck ebx/shozy bk. would appreciate if anyone can make direct comparisons (soundstage is of importance) and with ergonomics as a factor too (i know this is subjective but i have medium-large ears) thanks in advance


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 22, 2018)

BrianLHR said:


> been lurking around and decided on making a jump at either liebesleid/svara l/nicehck ebx/shozy bk. would appreciate if anyone can make direct comparisons (soundstage is of importance) and with ergonomics as a factor too (i know this is subjective but i have medium-large ears) thanks in advance


kinda rules out the bk, if you are looking for a vast spacious soundstage.

Also the bk shell is smaller so maybe a regular mx500 size shell will suit you best.


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> As the saying goes, one mans meat is another mans poison!
> 
> I guarantee for every bud you dislike there’s atleast a few if us who like em. If I sold my graphenes because I don’t like them there’s plenty who would enjoy them a lot.


Never heard that one, must be an Irish saying.  

The other factor (besides hoarding tendencies!) is the time involved in selling something.  The time it would take to negotiate a sale, package the buds, go to the post office and possibly fill out customs forms isn’t worth the money I’d recoup from a lot of the budget buds.  If there was someone local I could give the orphans to I’d be much more inclined to do that as it would be less hassle.


----------



## groucho69

seanc6441 said:


> As the saying goes, one mans meat is another mans poison!
> 
> I guarantee for every bud you dislike there’s atleast a few if us who like em. If I sold my graphenes because I don’t like them there’s plenty who would enjoy them a lot.



And one mans cheese is another mans flatulence


----------



## chinmie

siderak said:


> Is it the worst part? Or...the best part!



A bit of both. I guess it's her payback as i teased her also about shoes, bags, and clothes 



siderak said:


> It would be irresponsible of me just sit back and watch you keep lying to yourself like this...



Okay... Two (boxes) of each then


----------



## chinmie

BrianLHR said:


> been lurking around and decided on making a jump at either liebesleid/svara l/nicehck ebx/shozy bk. would appreciate if anyone can make direct comparisons (soundstage is of importance) and with ergonomics as a factor too (i know this is subjective but i have medium-large ears) thanks in advance



I haven't heard the ebx, but if soundstage is the main factor, then the Svara and liebesleid takes the cake. BK has more intimate soundstage. If talking
about instrument placement and separation, then it'd be liebesleid, BK, then svara


----------



## siderak

chinmie said:


> I haven't heard the ebx, but if soundstage is the main factor, then the Svara and liebesleid takes the cake. BK has more intimate soundstage. If talking
> about instrument placement and separation, then it'd be liebesleid, BK, then svara



The ebx is pretty spacious. 
Excellent bud. Clean. Great imaging. 
Fit is a bit of a challenge but works well with memory wire cables.
I’ll have a shozy bk tomorrow. 
Maybe I can do a quick comparison in a couple of days.


----------



## toear (Apr 22, 2018)

Hi all

I somehow made it through the whole thread over the last few weeks .. I may have missed a few pages here or there but am pretty sure I read some at least a few times (why I have emx500s and faael 64ohm... Ok and seahf awk f64 as well... Cancelled RX 1st the last moment)...

This place can be horrible  (how do I explain all the 'mystery' packages that keep showing up?!)

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone could shed light on both the Ourart ti7 and the SvaraL? From what I can remember the both have excellent sound stage and bass extension? I am interested in sounds that presents in front of me, not the 'I'm on stage feel'...

If anyone could recommend either of these, or have other suggestions?

I'm trying to keep it around $50-60+/-usd ($70-80+/-CAD)....

Thanks in advance!!

*edited for clarification


----------



## doggiemom

For those looking for a bass head bud, I submit for your consideration the FAAEAL Narcissus.  Properly driven, these have a nice thumpy bass.  Sound is a bit on the dark side as the treble is not emphasized, but on Courtney Barnett’s “City Looks Pretty” the high hat is crisp and detailed.  For $30, these are a pleasant surprise.


----------



## Saoshyant

Can’t help but find it amusing that the Faaeal can be bundled with a cable.


----------



## DBaldock9

toear said:


> Hi all
> 
> I somehow made it through the whole thread over the last few weeks .. I may have missed a few pages here or there but am pretty sure I read some at least a few times (why I have emx500s and faael 64ohm... Ok and seahf awk f64 as well... Cancelled RX 1st the last moment)...
> 
> ...



I've got these three earbuds, and as far as Bass goes - I'd put them in this order:
1.) Svara-L - (original 115Ω model), $54.00. They have a bit of a recessed Midrange & Treble.  *NOTE:* I haven't heard the current 32Ω model.
2.) MusicMaker ToneKing TO200 - (200Ω), $50.00. They have more Midrange & Treble than the Svara-L.
3.) OurArt Ti7 - (32Ω), $59.00. They also have more Midrange & Treble.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 22, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> Never heard that one, must be an Irish saying.
> 
> The other factor (besides hoarding tendencies!) is the time involved in selling something.  The time it would take to negotiate a sale, package the buds, go to the post office and possibly fill out customs forms isn’t worth the money I’d recoup from a lot of the budget buds.  If there was someone local I could give the orphans to I’d be much more inclined to do that as it would be less hassle.


That’s why I usually only sell more expensive buds and give the cheap ones I dislike or don’t use to family and friends. Feels nice to give some out (just doing my part in spreading the earbuds bug^^) as you are right it’s not worth selling em.

Unless you sell a big bundle or something.


----------



## doggiemom

Saoshyant said:


> Can’t help but find it amusing that the Faaeal can be bundled with a cable.


Yeah, I actually looked at the pictures again to make sure they didn’t have a detachable cable.  Weird.


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> That’s why I usually only sell more expensive buds and give the cheap ones I dislike to family and friends.


My friends get “backup” Monk+’s and Vidos.


----------



## HungryPanda

Hi my names Tom and I'm a hoarder but love my music


----------



## BrianLHR

ah ok thanks guys but would u guys say the svara/ebx/lieb are comparable even at different price points? these are all within budget so alls good. lieb ergonomics seems questionable though


----------



## chinmie

BrianLHR said:


> ah ok thanks guys but would u guys say the svara/ebx/lieb are comparable even at different price points? these are all within budget so alls good. lieb ergonomics seems questionable though



comparable in what? SQ? no, not really


----------



## siderak

Willsound mk2 ver 2 still going strong.



amazing album.


----------



## BrianLHR

ok will get a lieb then  thanks


----------



## Ace Jay

golov17 said:


> I wanted reserved LPG )))


you already got one?


----------



## dheepak10 (Apr 23, 2018)

Guggga said:


> Now listening to the mk2 special edition.
> 
> The mk1 rev 2 is like a single malt, smooth and refined. The mk3 is like weed , smooth refined and spacious sounding. The mk2 rev 2 is definitely high on cocain, exuberant and energetic - not as detailed as the other two, but super super fun.



My Mk1 Rev2 and Mk2 Ver2 are in transit. Since you have all 3, pls let me know how would you rank them.


----------



## Guggga

dheepak10 said:


> My Mk1 Rev2 and Mk2 Ver2 are in transit. Since you have all 3, pls let me know how ould you rank them.


No ranking. Honestly, i enjoy them all at different times for same or different music. I like the willsound tuning.


----------



## mbwilson111

Guggga said:


> No ranking. Honestly, i enjoy them all at different times for same or different music. I like the willsound tuning.



Looking forward to receiving my Willsound MK1 (the red one). I have no idea how long they will take to reach the UK.  Ordered one week ago.


----------



## toear

DBaldock9 said:


> I've got these three earbuds, and as far as Bass goes - I'd put them in this order:
> 1.) Svara-L - (original 115Ω model), $54.00. They have a bit of a recessed Midrange & Treble.  *NOTE:* I haven't heard the current 32Ω model.
> 2.) MusicMaker ToneKing TO200 - (200Ω), $50.00. They have more Midrange & Treble than the Svara-L.
> 3.) OurArt Ti7 - (32Ω), $59.00. They also have more Midrange & Treble.


Thank you for the additional suggestions and impressions! I believe I came across that you have a zishan z2 in another thread? Do you have a walnut f1? Basically I'm looking for earphones that can be driven, or rather take advantage of, the power of the amp/dap. I currently have the z2 in hand and it drives my mx 365, h180, and mrice nicely. But was thinking of trying higher impedance earphones as well. It also drives my hd6xx nicely. 

Tp16 ohms are in the same range as my other buds now (as is the ourart... Can't remember why it made it to my shortlist)... 

Based on this info should I shift my focus? Other possibilities? 

Thanks again!


----------



## capnjack (Apr 23, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Looking forward to receiving my Willsound MK1 (the red one). I have no idea how long they will take to reach the UK.  Ordered one week ago.


Mine took about 18 days if memory serves me right!   enjoy!
Oh, I just pulled the trigger on the Mk.2s


----------



## Guggga (Apr 23, 2018)

I order from www.rholupat.com , Adhi Rholupat is a great guy to deal with and shipping works out to be cheap on combined orders. I usually receive my parcels within 15 days at New Delhi, India.

Waiting for Willy to finish building the mk1 rev 1, mk2 rev 2, pk32 and mk300 for me now. I've got the older willsounds plus the v friend v master (thai), Audio Varna (indo)  and Stix Audio XY (PH) to keep me busy till then.


----------



## mbwilson111

Guggga said:


> I order from www.rholupat.com , Adhi Rholupat is a great guy to deal with and shipping works out to be cheap on combined orders. I usually receive my parcels within 15 days at New Delhi, India.
> 
> Waiting for Willy to finish building the mk1 rev 1, mk2 rev 2, pk32 and mk300 for me now. I've got the older willsounds plus the v friend v master (thai), Audio Varna (indo)  and Stix Audio XY (PH) to keep me busy till then.



My MK1 rev.2  are coming from Rholupat.  When we ordered them a week ago there was one in stock.  Does he only stock a few at a time?


----------



## capnjack

mbwilson111 said:


> My MK1 rev.2  are coming from Rholupat.  When we ordered them a week ago there was one in stock.  Does he only stock a few at a time?


I’m not sure about that, but when I ordered my Mk.1s, he had 2 in stock for ages after that! 
Still, they’ll be worth the wait when you get your hands on them! (Don’t forget to give ‘em a bit of burn in) !?!?


----------



## Guggga

Guess Willy's got his hands full Makin those buds for his distributors in PH , ID and SG respectively. They've been steadily gaining a following outside Indonesia the past few months.


----------



## tnelmo

DBaldock9 said:


> If the LED is too bright on your Z2, you can replace the series resistor with a larger one - I used a 20KΩ, and it has dimmed the LED quite a bit.



A while back you mentioned building a desktop unit:

"Instead of buying one of the Walnut v3 (Balanced Output) DAPs, I'm checking with the local "Creator Group", to make a case (either metal or copper-foil lined plastic), that will house a Zishan Z2 and a Walnut F1 Balanced Amp, along with a 5000 - 7000mAh battery.  "

Did you ever do this?


----------



## golov17

Ace Jay said:


> you already got one?


----------



## noknok23

golov17 said:


>


Is bass and subbass sufficient for electronic music, techno?


----------



## golov17

noknok23 said:


> Is bass and subbass sufficient for electronic music, techno?


Yes


----------



## siderak

Willsound Mk2 batch 2 is STILL killing...
It's like chinmie said, the Mk2 is like some kind of...amphetemine. (I think that's what was said) 
It sounds like what this album cover looks like. (happens to be what I'm listening to)


----------



## Saoshyant

I'm still utterly loving the Poseidon.  I just hope this love isn't based off the huge price tag.  I've tried it with 4 different sources so far, and have zero complaints with any of those pairings.  I'm currently listening to Rachmaninoff via the Kogan at 22/30 volume, which I'm surprised it's battery is still alive at this point.  Such a grand budget dap that is missed by many.

I might prefer a little more treble in the Poseidon, but it's by no way deficient in this respect for my tastes, and everything else is just lovely.  If I remember the Kogan is a treble-centric dap as it is, so it feels like a good pairing to my ears.  Any possible concerns with discomfort due to the shell weight and shape is gone as I can wear this all day without any issue.  I've been busy so haven't been able to spend as much time since I got it as I'd like, but I'm really having a hard time noticing any actual flaws with the earbud.  I still hear an L shape signature, and doubt that will change as time goes on, although an L shaped earbud might be pretty balanced for an IEM/headphone.


----------



## RuFrost

I own Diomnes LV2 and Zen Black Cardas. Owned Shozy BK for couple weeks and listened it almost every day. BS1 Official is coming. So:
1) where does Rose Masya and Mojito stands? Are they better than BK, but lower than LV2?
2) In terms of the sound, to which both (I'm interested more in Mojito) of this are the most close to from named earbuds and unnamed?


----------



## chinmie

RuFrost said:


> I own Diomnes LV2 and Zen Black Cardas. Owned Shozy BK for couple weeks and listened it almost every day. BS1 Official is coming. So:
> 1) where does Rose Masya and Mojito stands? Are they better than BK, but lower than LV2?
> 2) In terms of the sound, to which both (I'm interested more in Mojito) of this are the most close to from named earbuds and unnamed?



SQ-wise, it is mojito > Lv2 > BK > masya, but in terms of sound signature, they're quite different from one another, especially mojito..that one is you either love it or hate it. It is really bright, dry, and recessed mids, good bass extension and really wide soundstage. With the other three, they are more accessible and easier to love.


----------



## ctaxxxx

RuFrost said:


> I own Diomnes LV2 and Zen Black Cardas. Owned Shozy BK for couple weeks and listened it almost every day. BS1 Official is coming. So:
> 1) where does Rose Masya and Mojito stands? Are they better than BK, but lower than LV2?
> 2) In terms of the sound, to which both (I'm interested more in Mojito) of this are the most close to from named earbuds and unnamed?


I agree with Chinmie. All those buds (I haven't heard BS1 or Masya) are more on the warm side, unlike the Rose Mojito. The Mojito would make a great complement, assuming you can adjust to their bright signature.


----------



## waynes world

siderak said:


> Willsound Mk2 batch 2 is STILL killing...
> It's like chinmie said, the Mk2 is like some kind of...amphetemine. (I think that's what was said)
> It sounds like what this album cover looks like. (happens to be what I'm listening to)



 

A bunch of folks liked your post. What's wrong with them? I don't like it. It's just mean and is ruining whatever last vestige of resistance I had. Meanie!


----------



## seanc6441

I’d consider the BS1 neutral in tonality but slightly coloured midrange.

Masya is warmer to my ears in the mids but a lighter sound.

I much prefer the masya’s vocals although it’s not perfect it’s pretty good especially at conveying emotion in the voice.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 23, 2018)

I got my Toneking TO400S today. I’ll burn it in before giving full impressions.

Quick impressions:

It’s dark but not overly warm or too bassy. Lacks some brightness in the upper mids lower treble but some foams let more through and it becomes almost enough without EQ... But not quite enough for my tastes. With some EQ it balances out nicely and have some sparkle even.

Solid deep bass. Well controlled and speedy decay.

Mids can sound fuller if the seal is good but hollow if it’s a poor seal. Vocals are forward presented and slightly preferencing male vocals.

Soundstage is spacious but naturally portrayed so nothing sounds too near or too distant. Imaging seems good too. Nice width and modest depth.

I feel it’s a little analitical at times, doesn’t really sound too musical with every genre. Still need to burn it in and try it out more too see what changes in my impressions.

So far I’d say you’d definitely want to pair it with a brighter-very bright source. I’d even be tempted to test a silver cable if you believe that will brighten the sound. It needs some help in this regard. I’m using it with thick VE donut foams with multi holes punched in the thick donut to let all the sound through. This has helped add depth and space (further from the ear) and doesn’t restrict the treble or darken the sound much at all which is a big plus.

I’ll post pics tomorrow!


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> I got my Toneking TO400S today. I’ll burn it in before giving full impressions.
> 
> Quick impressions:
> 
> ...



try them with those black thin foams or thin donuts and see how it goes


----------



## siderak

waynes world said:


> A bunch of folks liked your post. What's wrong with them? I don't like it. It's just mean and is ruining whatever last vestige of resistance I had. Meanie!



I'm so sorry. 
I'm obviously lying about most things.
I just want to be loved...


----------



## siderak

So i've been listening to the nicehck ebx and wondering, are they really not considered top tier? 
I've never heard mojito, liebesleid, poseidon or dragon. 
I do have mx-980's and shozy bk.
The EBX seems more capable than Shozy bk with a much larger soundstage. 
I'd place them between the 980 and bk in terms of refinement. 
What am I missing?


----------



## Oscar-HiFi




----------



## Guggga

siderak said:


> So i've been listening to the nicehck ebx and wondering, are they really not considered top tier?
> I've never heard mojito, liebesleid, poseidon or dragon.
> I do have mx-980's and shozy bk.
> The EBX seems more capable than Shozy bk with a much larger soundstage.
> ...



How's the trebel on those compared to the willsound? Is it very extended or cold? How's the soundstage etc.
Really like the look of the ebx but stayed away cus i can't take extended or sibilant trebel, maybe I've inferred the few impressions i read wrongly.


----------



## Ace Jay

golov17 said:


>


Woooaaaahhh.... how she handles?


----------



## SweetEars

anyone witht h emex500s have problems?

there is strange crackling sound on the left side..


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 24, 2018)

chinmie said:


> try them with those black thin foams or thin donuts and see how it goes


I did and I can say the thin black foams (full) still sound a little dark to my ears and the sound is so forward that I think donuts work better here.

So I tried the thin foams in donut form... Better. More natural placing of vocals etc. But still dark.

So then I tried thin foams + multi hole. Better again. More balanced and the same natural presentation as donut.

But finally I tried the THICK VE donuts (kinda like Hiegi but more foam to make the multi hole in) with 5/6 holes around the edge and this is the best so far. Great balance, only slightly tilting towards dark on my V20. The distance from the ear due to the thicker fom gives you much more space and sense of depth and the seal is much better than the  thin foam giving the bass impact and the vocals a full bodied sound.

Also I’m wearing them over ear for now. Improves the seal a bit, not a drastic change in SQ but slightly more punchy bass and fuller mids.


----------



## kurtextrem

I agree, TO400S definitely better with donut foams. I am still uncertain whether the sound is more 3d than with Penon BS1 (in terms of gaming, locating footsteps), but at the moment I feel like it is.


----------



## seanc6441

kurtextrem said:


> I agree, TO400S definitely better with donut foams. I am still uncertain whether the sound is more 3d than with Penon BS1 (in terms of gaming, locating footsteps), but at the moment I feel like it is.


It’s got a similar imaging presentation in a slightly bigger (wider) soundstage. Overall it’s more spacious but I don’t think the separation is any better. Possibly the BS1 has slightly better separation overall.

Although the separation may be perceived lack of brightness in the TO400S and the overly bright upper mids of the BS1 can definitely help define detail in the mids.

I wish the TO400S had a more neutral balanced signature because it’s pretty stellar in all other departments I’m just missing some sparkle in the upper frequencies.

If you prefer a darker sound but with excellent bass control and extension this bud is for you though.


----------



## kurtextrem

seanc6441 said:


> It’s got a similar imaging presentation in a slightly bigger (wider) soundstage. Overall it’s more spacious but I don’t think the separation is any better. Possibly the BS1 has slightly better separation overall.


You're definitely right. I can better locate footsteps, however I catch myself more often concentrating on listening to the sound carefully to hear footsteps. 
However, one advantage goes to the TO400s: With donut foams, it fits me better than the Penon BS1 does with full foams... so slightly better sound overall


----------



## seanc6441

I think I’ll do a mini comparison of TO400S, BS1 Official and Rose Masya in the coming day or two. All at a similar level and somewhat close enough price wise. May help some buyers looking to get into premium earbuds without spending big money.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 24, 2018)

kurtextrem said:


> You're definitely right. I can better locate footsteps, however I catch myself more often concentrating on listening to the sound carefully to hear footsteps.
> However, one advantage goes to the TO400s: With donut foams, it fits me better than the Penon BS1 does with full foams... so slightly better sound overall


Same, I dislike the fit of the BS1 shell even if it looks good. Infact I think it’s one of the reasons the SQ is inconsistent. If it had a different design for a better fit I think it would sound better for most.

The fact that the BS1 has a slightly recessed and ‘weaker’ body to vocals if the fit isn’t right doesn’t help either.

TO400s did sound a little hollow until I got the fit right but it was a much simpler process to get it to sound good.


----------



## ClieOS

Polvcdg A6
EMX500
EMX500S


----------



## Saoshyant

I'm guessing that first one is Taobao only for now.  Going to assume it's a budget earbud as I'm not sure I can think of one with a mic that's above $100 USD.  Is the 1More E1008 the most expensive earbud with mic, or is there another I'm forgetting about?


----------



## seanc6441

@kurtextrem Same foam applied to my bs1 and it’s sounding good to my ears. Good space, vocals sound about right in forwardness and there’s moderate body to them, they don’t sound too weak. Great seal and overall balance is good airy high’s and deep lows. 
 
Yep this is a good one may have to make another for the TO400S now


----------



## ClieOS

Saoshyant said:


> I'm guessing that first one is Taobao only for now.  Going to assume it's a budget earbud as I'm not sure I can think of one with a mic that's above $100 USD.  Is the 1More E1008 the most expensive earbud with mic, or is there another I'm forgetting about?



Yep, it is a pretty cheap one on Taobao that I just picked up for fun. Not really worth it though and you can totally skip it.


----------



## golov17 (Apr 24, 2018)

Ace Jay said:


> Woooaaaahhh.... how she handles?


Solid. does not bend


----------



## cathee

SweetEars said:


> anyone witht h emex500s have problems?
> 
> there is strange crackling sound on the left side..



Probably weak soldering and poor wire stability. I had this problem with my EMX500 EMXs500 and MX760 from a particular AliExpress seller but others were fine.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Oscar-HiFi said:


>


I'm supposed to be shopping for in ears, but you guys are making this hard lol.


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

ctaxxxx said:


> I'm supposed to be shopping for in ears, but you guys are making this hard lol.



You don't need in-ears (although that's what I use 95% of the time)...

These are actually quite incredible, a little HD600 like in their sound signature but with better detail retrieval in my opinion. Excellent bass response for an earbud, and just very enjoyable.


----------



## Guggga

Oscar-HiFi said:


> You don't need in-ears (although that's what I use 95% of the time)...
> 
> These are actually quite incredible, a little HD600 like in their sound signature but with better detail retrieval in my opinion. Excellent bass response for an earbud, and just very enjoyable.



What earbuds are those and how much do rhey cost. Any impressions or links , tia.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Guggga said:


> What earbuds are those and how much do rhey cost. Any impressions or links , tia.


Simphonio Dragon 2plus (SWD2plus)


----------



## seanc6441

Guggga said:


> What earbuds are those and how much do rhey cost. Any impressions or links , tia.


Cost an arm and a leg


----------



## groucho69

seanc6441 said:


> Cost an arm and a leg


----------



## golov17

ctaxxxx said:


> I'm supposed to be shopping for in ears, but you guys are making this hard lol.


maybe compromise?


----------



## Narayan23

Golov you cheeky devil, you´re so Xcited and you just can´t hide it


----------



## toear

Hi All

So I just got my two 64ohm earbuds... Faael 64ohm and Seahf AWK-F64.

Initial impressions... Faael 64 compared to the Seahf awk-f64, and vice-versa

Faael 64ohm - seem very mid-forward, more depth but less soundstage, very textured and detailed, less sub bass, more neutral (?)
AWK-F64 -  more of a 'recessed' sounds, wider soundstage but less depth, textures and details are there but perhaps less 'exaggerated' than the Faael(?), sub extend nice and low....smooth! , slight v-shape

At this point, the AWK-F64 seems to fit my preference more in terms of sound signature, but I know there are a lot of Faael fans out there... I will continue to listen and compare after burn-in period...

Thanks to all the bad influence around here...


----------



## chinmie

golov17 said:


> maybe compromise?



Naah.. I'm more of a moondrop kinda guy


----------



## base08

ClieOS said:


> Polvcdg A6
> EMX500
> EMX500S



Hey! Clieos finally jumped on the emx500 hype train! How do you find them? Also do you happen to know any insight on these, who makes them and so on?


----------



## siderak

Guggga said:


> How's the trebel on those compared to the willsound? Is it very extended or cold? How's the soundstage etc.
> Really like the look of the ebx but stayed away cus i can't take extended or sibilant trebel, maybe I've inferred the few impressions i read wrongly.



It’s extended frequentially but clean. 
The highs are there but never sibilant. 
Don’t know what the specs are but I’m not hearing anything that indicates that these don’t have extremely low distortion. They are very clear. 
I do use eq sometimes and if the buds aren’t great, they respond sloppily and will reveal their lack of detail. These don’t do that. 
They are incredibly detailed from deep low to airy highs, especially for the money. 
I love the natural but beefy nature of the willsound but they don’t have quite the detail of the ebx available, especially up top. 
I always want to have earbuds with clean and transparent sig but the willsound is pretty much the first bud that, while isn’t that, I enjoy immensely for its analog vibey goodness right out of the box (and getting better). 
I really can’t think of anything i like as much as these mk2’s that cost 2 or even 3 times as much. 
There is the potential challenge of fit with the EBX. It’s big. 
I’m lucky to have large ear canals so I feel it’s easier for me to find the right placement, 
which sounds worlds apart from even slightly off placement. 
I played around with foams. Thick donuts tamed the highs and beefed up the low end somewhat. I now use monk thins and to get a more “fun” sound, use the radsone eq to roll off everything above 6k by 2-3db and boost below 60hz by about the same. 
It’s still clear but “fun”.


----------



## ClieOS

base08 said:


> Hey! Clieos finally jumped on the emx500 hype train! How do you find them? Also do you happen to know any insight on these, who makes them and so on?



I reckon they are about upper mid tier in SQ and quite the performer consider their low price. Did try to find out who build them but still have no clue so far.


----------



## waynes world

siderak said:


> It’s extended frequentially but clean.
> The highs are there but never sibilant.
> Don’t know what the specs are but I’m not hearing anything that indicates that these don’t have extremely low distortion. They are very clear.
> I do use eq sometimes and if the buds aren’t great, they respond sloppily and will reveal their lack of detail. These don’t do that.
> ...



Ok, now I'm liking one of your mk2 hyping posts!
(you're hyping the mk2's over the much more expensive ebx - thank you!)


----------



## izumiz

Wow this is great


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Ok, now I'm liking one of your mk2 hyping posts!
> (you're hyping the mk2's over the much more expensive ebx - thank you!)



I'm going to hype you to the moon by saying this : i prefer the MK2 than the samsara, and even the poseidon


----------



## GU1DO (Apr 25, 2018)

Hi all
is there earbuds that sound like the isine or better ?
something with good bass and sound stage with good details
price range <800$

btw this will be my first earbud.


----------



## siderak

GU1DO said:


> Hi all
> is there earbuds that sound like the isine or better ?
> something with good bass and sound stage with good details
> price range <800$
> ...



NiceHck EBX


----------



## siderak

chinmie said:


> I'm going to hype you to the moon by saying this : i prefer the MK2 than the samsara, and even the poseidon



+1 mk2 > samsara 
Never heard the Poseidon.


----------



## rkw (Apr 25, 2018)

GU1DO said:


> something with good bass and sound stage with good details
> price range <800$


For an earbud, that means price no object. I can't even think of any earbud that costs $800. Even above $400 is very rare, often custom made.

Just to set expectations, you ask for good bass but no earbud will match the bass of your TH-900. Earbuds can have good sound stage and details, but as they don't seal the ear like IEMs they have trouble producing powerful bass.


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

golov17 said:


> maybe compromise?



I also have these, but I've not put them in my ears yet...


----------



## SweetEars

ctaxxxx said:


> I'm supposed to be shopping for in ears, but you guys are making this hard lol.


which seller?

anyway the problems seems to be gone now after i blew some air into he vents.


----------



## HungryPanda

My K's K600 thump with good bass


----------



## GU1DO

siderak said:


> NiceHck EBX


Thanks i will check them ,, 



rkw said:


> For an earbud, that means price no object. I can't even think of any earbud that costs $800. Even above $400 is very rare, often custom made.
> 
> Just to set expectations, you ask for good bass but no earbud will match the bass of your TH-900. Earbuds can have good sound stage and details, but as they don't seal the ear like IEMs they have trouble producing powerful bass.


yes i know ,, no iem or earbud will give full size bass , what i was looking for is none isolating solution , with good quality sound (bass/sound stage) come at first
and to be honest i have no idea about earbuds , my only experience is with the ones that come with mobile phones. 



HungryPanda said:


> My K's K600 thump with good bass


This ?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...nce-600-Ohm-Earbud-Flat-Head/32824145371.html


----------



## HungryPanda

Yes that is the one


----------



## audiofreakie

Working on my diy earbuds.
Still wrestling in 3d printing design for the shell. I want more smoother surface result for the shell.
Its design inspired by akg3003+mojito+ordinary earbuds shell.
It will be quad driver earbuds.


----------



## audiofreakie

The design look weird, but it perfectly sit well in my ear.


----------



## Guggga

chinmie said:


> I'm going to hype you to the moon by saying this : i prefer the MK2 than the samsara, and even the poseidon


Do you mean the older discontinued  mk2 or the new mk2 rev 2? Also have you heard the mk2 PH version


----------



## Guggga

HungryPanda said:


> My K's K600 thump with good bass


I'd ordered those for the very attractive price during the sale but ended up cancelling since i wasn't sure if the lg v20 would be able to drive them.

How's the overall sound signature compared to the mk2


----------



## HungryPanda

They K600 do need an amp to drive them, they have a stronger more defined bass than MK2 but sound is more neutral over all, MK2 is a more fun listen and easier to drive


----------



## Guggga

HungryPanda said:


> They K600 do need an amp to drive them, they have a stronger more defined bass than MK2 but sound is more neutral over all, MK2 is a more fun listen and easier to drive


Thanks, how's the resolution of the mids in comparison


----------



## HungryPanda

very nice, probably the closest sounding earbud to a full size headphone like HD650 to me


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> I'm going to hype you to the moon by saying this : i prefer the MK2 than the samsara, and even the poseidon



Ok, you've gone too far, and the edge is imminently closer to me now. These the ones?
http://www.rholupat.com/willsound-mk2-new-batch.html



GU1DO said:


> Thanks i will check them ,,
> yes i know ,, no iem or earbud will give full size bass , what i was looking for is none isolating solution , with good quality sound (bass/sound stage) come at first
> and to be honest i have no idea about earbuds , my only experience is with the ones that come with mobile phones.



I love the bass of the $60 Svara L's (32ohm). But Hungrypanda knows best (he has both), so if he recommends the 600's, then they be good.


----------



## chinmie

Guggga said:


> Do you mean the older discontinued  mk2 or the new mk2 rev 2? Also have you heard the mk2 PH version



This is my MK2 


 

I don't know which batch it was, but if I'm not mistaken that is one of the first when willy announced the MK2.



waynes world said:


> Ok, you've gone too far, and the edge is imminently closer to me now. These the ones?
> http://www.rholupat.com/willsound-mk2-new-batch.html
> 
> 
> ...



Yup, that's the buy now button alright. 
All joking aside, I'm really serious about what i said earlier though


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> Yup, that's the buy now button alright.
> All joking aside, I'm really serious about what i said earlier though



Huh! That "buy now" button is a "Products marked with *** are not available in the quantity or no inventory!" button! I just sent them an email to find out when it will be available.


----------



## HungryPanda

These are my Willsound MK2 2nd revision


----------



## Guggga (Apr 25, 2018)

Duplicate post


----------



## Guggga

Mine are the mk2 first edition. Both of yours are the second edition. Can't wait for Willy to finish building the rest of the range for me. Sigh.


----------



## redkingjoe (Apr 25, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> Guess I am probably not the best person to ask this question as I have yet to sell any and have no plan to ever do so. Think I might have just a little over 200 pairs by now.



200!
Wow! Impressive!
Do you happened to have Sony Mdr-e484 or mdr-e282?


----------



## siderak

rkw said:


> For an earbud, that means price no object. I can't even think of any earbud that costs $800. Even above $400 is very rare, often custom made.
> 
> Just to set expectations, you ask for good bass but no earbud will match the bass of your TH-900. Earbuds can have good sound stage and details, but as they don't seal the ear like IEMs they have trouble producing powerful bass.



Out of curiosity, which earbuds do you think have the best bass?


----------



## subwoof3r

Strange, my MK2 (rev 2) exactly looks like this (at the exception of the carrying case which looks much better on mine) :








Looks like we have different MK2 rev2 then..
I ordered mine from Rholupat.


----------



## HungryPanda

I got mine from Rholupat as well at least the case looks the same


----------



## HungryPanda

siderak said:


> Out of curiosity, which earbuds do you think have the best bass?


 Faaeal Snow Lotus 2.0 64 ohm or Seahf AWK-F64. K's K600 is good too but needs amped well


----------



## subwoof3r

GU1DO said:


> yes i know ,, no iem or earbud will give full size bass , what i was looking for is none isolating solution , with good quality sound (bass/sound stage) come at first


I guess you know me from TH900 thread  I was looking like you an earbud that could sound as better as our TH900 or similar, but for now I would recommand you Fengru EMX500S.
Sub-bass, bass and soundstage and clarity reminds me my TH900 everytime.
I did not have any other earbuds yet that have such sub-bass presence. And as TH900 user, I know how this is important ^^


----------



## groucho69

waynes world said:


> Huh! That "buy now" button is a "Products marked with *** are not available in the quantity or no inventory!" button! I just sent them an email to find out when it will be available.



After mine...


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> Faaeal Snow Lotus 2.0 64 ohm or Seahf AWK-F64. K's K600 is good too but needs amped well



I love the Lotus 2.0's bass (and the Seahf 150's as well), but for me at least, as far as trance is concerned, I find the Svara L's bass to be cleaner, bolder and to kick harder. I would consider that I'm just suffering from new toy syndrome, except that I have been totally addicted to them for over a month now (wearing over ears with donuts and a good seal) and still going strong


----------



## jogawag (Apr 27, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> These are my Willsound MK2 2nd revision


HungryPanda's "Willsound" may be "Willsound MK2 Special Edition"...


----------



## HungryPanda

All I ordered was Willsound MK2 on 8th January


----------



## ctaxxxx (Apr 25, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> GU1DO said:
> 
> 
> > yes i know ,, no iem or earbud will give full size bass , what i was looking for is none isolating solution , with good quality sound (bass/sound stage) come at first
> ...



As a past owner of the Fostex TH-900 and an avid earbud user, I recommend going straight for the Cypherus ZoomFred earbuds. Those are the only things I've heard that came close to the TH-900 sub-bass. It doesn't have the piercing highs (after burn in) either.


----------



## ClieOS

redkingjoe said:


> 200!
> Wow! Impressive!
> Do you happened to have Sony Mdr-e484 or mdr-e282?



No, I don't do vintage earbuds.


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> They K600 do need an amp to drive them, they have a stronger more defined bass than MK2 but sound is more neutral over all, MK2 is a more fun listen and easier to drive



Do you have / have you heard, the K's 500?
They've got nearly the Midrange quality of my more expensive Blur, and more Bass.
Plus, they have a nice soft cable.


----------



## handwander

Can anyone list some buds with no "stem" part in the body, like these?


----------



## chinmie

handwander said:


> Can anyone list some buds with no "stem" part in the body, like these?



Mrice e100, Yinman's, and technically all mmcx buds


----------



## handwander

chinmie said:


> Mrice e100, Yinman's, and technically all mmcx buds


Thanks. Aiwa hp-v3 is another.


----------



## siderak

subwoof3r said:


> Strange, my MK2 (rev 2) exactly looks like this (at the exception of the carrying case which looks much better on mine) :
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is what I have. I mis spoke earlier saying they mine were mk2 “rev 2” but they are simply mk2 “new batch”. Adhi from Rholupat writes that there is better bass impact on this batch and the mk2 is “more balanced” than the mk1 in terms of sound signature. 
I’m now listening to the mk2 without any foams. That brings out the mids slightly more. Again, For a mere $42, I’m amazed at the detail and layering. Imaging is uncanny. Bass seems to hit from behind. Soundstage is ultra wide. 
Day 3 in constant use. 
I still think it’s a bonified no brainer.


----------



## Guggga

siderak said:


> This is what I have. I mis spoke earlier saying they mine were mk2 “rev 2” but they are simply mk2 “new batch”. Adhi from Rholupat writes that there is better bass impact on this batch and the mk2 is “more balanced” than the mk1 in terms of sound signature.
> I’m now listening to the mk2 without any foams. That brings out the mids slightly more. Again, For a mere $42, I’m amazed at the detail and layering. Imaging is uncanny. Bass seems to hit from behind. Soundstage is ultra wide.
> Day 3 in constant use.
> I still think it’s a bonified no brainer.



The new batch is thr rev2. 

Incidentally, that's how i would describe the mk3 as well. Perhaps the diffdiffer between them is the amount of treble, with the mk3 being warmer. Well, I'll have to wait to find out till my mk2 rev 2 comes.
Willy is now working on the mk3 150ohm version, its still sometime for that though


----------



## chinmie

Guggga said:


> The new batch is thr rev2.
> 
> Incidentally, that's how i would describe the mk3 as well. Perhaps the diffdiffer between them is the amount of treble, with the mk3 being warmer. Well, I'll have to wait to find out till my mk2 rev 2 comes.
> Willy is now working on the mk3 150ohm version, its still sometime for that though



 I haven't heard mk3, but from willy's description to me that the MK3 have a leaner bass, making them more suitable for speedy rock or metal music


----------



## siderak

Just ordered the mk1 rev 2.
mmmuuuussssst haaaaave mooooaaaarrr willsound...


----------



## Guggga

siderak said:


> Just ordered the mk1 rev 2.
> mmmuuuussssst haaaaave mooooaaaarrr willsound...


Awesome! That one needs time to bloom. Be patient to enjoy its rewards


----------



## acap13

golov17 said:


> Solid. does not bend



This may go off topic a bit but this is really an interesting comparison chart. May I know where can I retrieve the chart from? Or Is this from your personal comparison?


----------



## 40760

Been awhile since I last participated in HF... recently I gotten back to earbuds again after suffering an ear canal abrasion due to IEM rubber tips.

Bought more Monk Plus to replace the old ones as their wires turned sticky. Then it led to the Asura 2.0s two weeks ago.

And today, a Willsound Mk3 on order thanks to you guys...


----------



## mbwilson111

siderak said:


> Just ordered the mk1 rev 2.
> mmmuuuussssst haaaaave mooooaaaarrr willsound...



My MK1 rev.2 has arrived in the UK but it could be stuck in customs for awhile.  I hope I will not get extra charges. If that happens I have to walk more than a mile each way to pay and collect.


----------



## siderak

Guggga said:


> Awesome! That one needs time to bloom. Be patient to enjoy its rewards



Patience is a rare and elusive trait for me. 
Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## siderak

mbwilson111 said:


> My MK1 rev.2 has arrived in the UK but it could be stuck in customs for awhile.  I hope I will not get extra charges. If that happens I have to walk more than a mile each way to pay and collect.



My fingers are crossed for you. 
If it doesn’t get stuck, will it be delivered to you or do you still have to hike down to pick it up?


----------



## mbwilson111

siderak said:


> My fingers are crossed for you.
> If it doesn’t get stuck, will it be delivered to you or do you still have to hike down to pick it up?



It would be delivered.  If it needs a signature I will hopefully be here to sign...otherwise there will be a card in the door and I will have to go get it.  Sometimes I miss my car...the one I left behind in Michigan.

My husband can't remember if he had to sign for his MK2...that was over four months ago and we get so many little packages from China and other places.  The Willsounds are the only ones we have ordered from Indonesia. I wonder what the postman thinks we are doing.


----------



## Guggga

Listening to Yosi Horikawa on tidal lossless for the past hour through the lg v20, usb audio Pro player app and mk3. I cant imagine a better 3D experience than this. The Soundstage seems infinite and the imaging and depth is phenomenal. The bass impact is immense and full.
I've had to pick my jaw from the floor several times.


----------



## 40760

Guggga said:


> Listening to Yosi Horikawa on tidal lossless for the past hour through the lg v20, usb audio Pro player app and mk3. I cant imagine a better 3D experience than this. The Soundstage seems infinite and the imaging and depth is phenomenal. The bass impact is immense and full.
> I've had to pick my jaw from the floor several times.



This is really not helping with my wait for my MK3...


----------



## capnjack

Guggga said:


> Listening to Yosi Horikawa on tidal lossless for the past hour through the lg v20, usb audio Pro player app and mk3. I cant imagine a better 3D experience than this. The Soundstage seems infinite and the imaging and depth is phenomenal. The bass impact is immense and full.
> I've had to pick my jaw from the floor several times.


Its funny, those sound like my thoughts on the Mk1 rev.2!


----------



## endia (Apr 26, 2018)

acap13 said:


> This may go off topic a bit but this is really an interesting comparison chart. May I know where can I retrieve the chart from? Or Is this from your personal comparison?



here you go;

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dap-score-chart.874423/

edit: wrong thread linked..


----------



## the diode

My Shozy BK died on me today. 
Seems the right driver went out... and its out of warranty.


----------



## golov17

acap13 said:


> This may go off topic a bit but this is really an interesting comparison chart. May I know where can I retrieve the chart from? Or Is this from your personal comparison?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dap-score-chart.874423/


----------



## waynes world

siderak said:


> This is what I have. I mis spoke earlier saying they mine were mk2 “rev 2” but they are simply mk2 “new batch”. Adhi from Rholupat writes that there is better bass impact on this batch and the mk2 is “more balanced” than the mk1 in terms of sound signature.
> I’m now listening to the mk2 without any foams. That brings out the mids slightly more. Again, For a mere $42, I’m amazed at the detail and layering. Imaging is uncanny. Bass seems to hit from behind. Soundstage is ultra wide.
> Day 3 in constant use.
> I still think it’s a bonified no brainer.



I'll be ordering a pair when available next week. I wish that they had mmcx cables (so that I could use my upcoming balanced cable with them). But that's ok.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 26, 2018)

the diode said:


> My Shozy BK died on me today.
> Seems the right driver went out... and its out of warranty.


Contact shozy on FB they might repair it for a cost? I’ve talked to them before they seem helpful so it cannot hurt to try!

Also if you’re handy at DIY work in earbuds you can open the cover and check the driver to cable connection. Might be that the cable is damaged and not the driver dieing?


----------



## the diode

seanc6441 said:


> Contact shozy on FB they might repair it for a cost? I’ve talked to them before they seem helpful so it cannot hurt to try!
> 
> Also if you’re handy at DIY work in earbuds you can open the cover and check the driver to cable connection. Might be that the cable is damaged and not the driver dieing?


Thank you, I will contact them and see what they say.


----------



## cathee

Can anyone point me to a earbud repair/soldering tutorial? (The wires going into my left ear bud detached, fell loose)


----------



## subwoof3r (Apr 26, 2018)

If anyone interested, I'm selling my brand new (fully burned) *WIllsound MK1 (rev 2)*.
MK2 is definitely more the kind of signature I'm looking for.
(also selling my *Blox BE3 rev 1*)


----------



## Narayan23

mbwilson111 said:


> It would be delivered.  If it needs a signature I will hopefully be here to sign...otherwise there will be a card in the door and I will have to go get it.  Sometimes I miss my car...the one I left behind in Michigan.
> 
> My husband can't remember if he had to sign for his MK2...that was over four months ago and we get so many little packages from China and other places.  The Willsounds are the only ones we have ordered from Indonesia.* I wonder what the postman thinks we are doing*.



I´ve had that same thought more than once, I get things delivered so often I´ll have to invite the postman to my wedding were I to get married.


----------



## GU1DO

subwoof3r said:


> I guess you know me from TH900 thread  I was looking like you an earbud that could sound as better as our TH900 or similar, but for now I would recommand you Fengru EMX500S.
> Sub-bass, bass and soundstage and clarity reminds me my TH900 everytime.
> I did not have any other earbuds yet that have such sub-bass presence. And as TH900 user, I know how this is important ^^





ctaxxxx said:


> As a past owner of the Fostex TH-900 and an avid earbud user, I recommend going straight for the Cypherus ZoomFred earbuds. Those are the only things I've heard that came close to the TH-900 sub-bass. It doesn't have the piercing highs (after burn in) either.



its nice to see TH900 fans here 
thanks for the recommendations i ordered some earbuds ,, will feed back later ,, really appreciate all the support ..


----------



## mbwilson111

Narayan23 said:


> I´ve had that same thought more than once, I get things delivered so often I´ll have to invite the postman to my wedding were I to get married.




I feed bad sometimes when our postman delivers audio stuff...he is deaf


----------



## seanc6441

@ShabtabQ Little update on the DIY PK2 I said was faulty, seems I was mistaken because it’s working fine now. There’s a good chance a hair got lodged on the cover when I placed it in my ear because it was rattling and now it isn’t.

Just thought you should know if you decide you wanted to buy.


----------



## ctaxxxx

GU1DO said:


> its nice to see TH900 fans here
> thanks for the recommendations i ordered some earbuds ,, will feed back later ,, really appreciate all the support ..



Order the EX Pack from Venture Electronics if you haven't already as well, just for the thin foams. They really help give a more open back sound, especially with a bass heavy bud like the ZoomFred's. 

I still regret selling mine. I hope to buy one again if I can resolve the sub-bass hearing issue I'm having.


----------



## seanc6441

ctaxxxx said:


> Order the EX Pack from Venture Electronics if you haven't already as well, just for the thin foams. They really help give a more open back sound, especially with a bass heavy bud like the ZoomFred's.
> 
> I still regret selling mine. I hope to buy one again if I can resolve the sub-bass hearing issue I'm having.


Try sugru mouldable silicone. It’s like blutac but dries solid (slightly maleable being silicone but holds a shape). Then you can make the shell a slightly different shape! Comes in many colours too. You can test with actual blutac to get the shape your after, then when you are satisfied the seal is sufficient use the sugru.


----------



## acap13

endia said:


> here you go;
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dap-score-chart.874423/
> 
> edit: wrong thread linked..





golov17 said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dap-score-chart.874423/



Thanks so much!


----------



## ShabtabQ

seanc6441 said:


> @ShabtabQ Little update on the DIY PK2 I said was faulty, seems I was mistaken because it’s working fine now. There’s a good chance a hair got lodged on the cover when I placed it in my ear because it was rattling and now it isn’t.
> 
> Just thought you should know if you decide you wanted to buy.



Thank you for updating sean, I'm waiting for my Tin T2 and PT15 to get delivered, saving up for the balanced cable and Pk2, will order them in a month or so.


----------



## DBaldock9

The ToneKing TO400s earbuds I ordered nearly a month ago, finally arrived in the mail today.

I already had a set of TO200 earbuds, and like the way they sound.  These TO400s earbuds sound even better - using Hiegi Donut Foams, and listening to music streamed from AccuRadio through a FiiO Taishan D03K DAC & Walnut F1 Amp (w/BUF634U op-amps) Balanced output, and with my new Zishan Z3 DAP (16-Bit/44-KHz to 24-Bit/192-KHz FLAC files).


----------



## kw8910

DBaldock9 said:


> The ToneKing TO400s earbuds I ordered nearly a month ago, finally arrived in the mail today.
> 
> I already had a set of TO200 earbuds, and like the way they sound.  These TO400s earbuds sound even better - using Hiegi Donut Foams, and listening to music streamed from AccuRadio through a FiiO Taishan D03K DAC & Walnut F1 Amp (w/BUF634U op-amps) Balanced output, and with my new Zishan Z3 DAP (16-Bit/44-KHz to 24-Bit/192-KHz FLAC files).



How do you like them compared to your blur and k’s?


----------



## Guggga

capnjack said:


> Its funny, those sound like my thoughts on the Mk1 rev.2!



The mk1 rev 2 is more analytically warm than the fuller sounding mk3 imo as it has less mid bass but more subbass.  I love the signature on both them and are different enough for me to enjoy!


----------



## capnjack

Guggga said:


> The mk1 rev 2 is more analytically warm than the fuller sounding mk3 imo as it has less mid bass but more subbass.  I love the signature on both them and are different enough for me to enjoy!


I just think the mk.1 sounds great with all genres that I listen to and has a nice soundstage too!


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 27, 2018)

DBaldock9 said:


> The ToneKing TO400s earbuds I ordered nearly a month ago, finally arrived in the mail today.
> 
> I already had a set of TO200 earbuds, and like the way they sound.  These TO400s earbuds sound even better - using Hiegi Donut Foams, and listening to music streamed from AccuRadio through a FiiO Taishan D03K DAC & Walnut F1 Amp (w/BUF634U op-amps) Balanced output, and with my new Zishan Z3 DAP (16-Bit/44-KHz to 24-Bit/192-KHz FLAC files).


I find it has a surprising amount of detail for a darker sounding bud. Actually the way I have it setup with thin foam and my brighter sounding V20 it comes off as not too dark at all. Quite balanced with only a slight emphasis on the low mids over upper mids. Treble is still airy and has a little sparkle.

I’d rank it just behind the Masya/BS1 personally because I prefer their signatures but technically it’s just as good. The soundstage and imaging is quite effortless and it seems to never get congested yet remain slightly forward in its detailing which is great.

There’s a slight tendency to sound scratchy/rough with the donuts so I swapped to thinner foams with 3 holes and that’s helped a lot.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> I find it has a surprising amount of detail for a darker sounding bud. Actually the way I have it setup with thin foam and my brighter sounding V20 it comes off as not too dark at all. Quite balanced with only a slight emphasis on the low mids over upper mids. Treble is still airy and has a little sparkle.
> 
> I’d rank it just behind the Masya/BS1 personally because I prefer their signatures but technically it’s just as good. The soundstage and imaging is quite effortless and it seems to never get congested yet remain slightly forward in its detailing which is great.
> 
> There’s a slight tendency to sound scratchy/rough with the donuts so I swapped to thinner foams with 3 holes and that’s helped a lot.



yup, for a dark sounding buds, the TO400s has good clarity and not muffled at all


----------



## DBaldock9

seanc6441 said:


> I find it has a surprising amount of detail for a darker sounding bud. Actually the way I have it setup with thin foam and my brighter sounding V20 it comes off as not too dark at all. Quite balanced with only a slight emphasis on the low mids over upper mids. Treble is still airy and has a little sparkle.
> 
> I’d rank it just behind the Masya/BS1 personally because I prefer their signatures but technically it’s just as good. The soundstage and imaging is quite effortless and it seems to never get congested yet remain slightly forward in its detailing which is great.
> 
> There’s a slight tendency to sound scratchy/rough with the donuts so I swapped to thinner foams with 3 holes and that’s helped a lot.



The V20 that I ordered, should be arriving tomorrow.  Once I've rooted it, installed the S/W that I want (including UAPP), and moved my SIM - I'm looking forward to listening to it with my higher impedance earbuds.


----------



## nofrio

Where i buy the willsounds? I need them in my life.


----------



## HungryPanda

Rholupat is where I get mine


----------



## DBaldock9

seanc6441 said:


> I find it has a surprising amount of detail for a darker sounding bud. Actually the way I have it setup with thin foam and my brighter sounding V20 it comes off as not too dark at all. Quite balanced with only a slight emphasis on the low mids over upper mids. Treble is still airy and has a little sparkle.
> 
> I’d rank it just behind the Masya/BS1 personally because I prefer their signatures but technically it’s just as good. The soundstage and imaging is quite effortless and it seems to never get congested yet remain slightly forward in its detailing which is great.
> 
> There’s a slight tendency to sound scratchy/rough with the donuts so I swapped to thinner foams with 3 holes and that’s helped a lot.



So, this morning I swapped over to some of the thin Red foams from one of my VE Extras packs.
Still using the new LZ 8-Core 2.5mm TRRS to MMCX cable, connected to my new Zishan Z3 (with an Impact Audio Cable 3.5mm TRS Plug -to- 2.5mm TRRS Jack adapter cable) - and listening to FLAC files of my Amber Rubarth "Sessions from the 17th Ward" CD.  
This Chesky Binaural acoustic recording is a good test for soundstage & imaging.  
The Midrange & Treble of the TO400s is really nice, but with the thin foams, the Bass impact seems to be less than when using the Hiegi donut foams.


----------



## 40760 (Apr 27, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> Rholupat is where I get mine



If you don't mind! Just a quick question, I'm anticipating the MK3 from Rholupat for the order I made yesterday. May I check how long did it take for the seller to ship your Willsound out to you? I've tried contacting them regarding the availability of the MK2 as well but I haven't gotten a reply.


----------



## seanc6441

DBaldock9 said:


> So, this morning I swapped over to some of the thin Red foams from one of my VE Extras packs.
> Still using the new LZ 8-Core 2.5mm TRRS to MMCX cable, connected to my new Zishan Z3 (with an Impact Audio Cable 3.5mm TRS Plug -to- 2.5mm TRRS Jack adapter cable) - and listening to FLAC files of my Amber Rubarth "Sessions from the 17th Ward" CD.
> This Chesky Binaural acoustic recording is a good test for soundstage & imaging.
> The Midrange & Treble of the TO400s is really nice, but with the thin foams, the Bass impact seems to be less than when using the Hiegi donut foams.


The port on the back benefits from the thicker foam as it seems to add body to the sound. I’m using a foam I only have one pair of and have no idea where it came from but it’s like the thin black aliexpress foams except more smooth/spongy and slightly denser. The sound is also very clear but have enough seal for bass. I want more of these foams... I put 3 holes in them to add slight emphasis to the vocal region and its pretty balanced sounding this way.

Waiting to try the balanced cable on it with Hiby R6 to see what improves with more power than V20. Although V20 drives it just fine.


----------



## tnelmo

mbwilson111 said:


> I feed bad sometimes when our postman delivers audio stuff...he is deaf



From my favorite Brit-com:


----------



## j4100

palestofwhite said:


> If you don't mind! Just a quick question, I'm anticipating the MK3 from Rholupat for the order I made yesterday. May I check how long did it take for the seller to ship your Willsound out to you? I've tried contacting them regarding the availability of the MK2 as well but I haven't gotten a reply.



Think mine was around 3 weeks, depending on where you live it might be 2-4 weeks, l guess.


----------



## j4100

HungryPanda said:


> These are my Willsound MK2 2nd revision



Those look suspiciously like mine 

Currently enjoying them being played through my VE RA 2.0bl with Dark Star's Twenty Twenty Sound


----------



## mbwilson111

tnelmo said:


> From my favorite Brit-com:



Which one is that?


----------



## toear

HungryPanda said:


> Faaeal Snow Lotus 2.0 64 ohm or Seahf AWK-F64. K's K600 is good too but needs amped well



I would agree with HungryPanda about the AWK-F64s.. they were a pleasant surprise for the amount of bass/sub considering they are earphones.... 

For ~$7 I think you would be quite happy!


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> Which one is that?



Keeping Up Appearances


----------



## subwoof3r

Before ordering my Willsound MK2 (and MK1) both rev2 to Rholupat, I asked to Wong (as he is another official Willsound reseller) and he took me a pic of his MK2 rev2 and here also, it looks exactly like Rholupat I received.
Here is the picture he send to me via mail :




I ordered there is 3 weeks (approx), and received in 2 weeks to France (expected to be a bit shorter but it's ok).

Also, not sure I will order to Rholupat anymore as it's now my second mail sended via website form and never received a single answer, so personally I do not recommand this seller. I will order next time to Wong directly as he replied to me very quickly.


----------



## toear

subwoof3r said:


> Before ordering my Willsound MK2 (and MK1) both rev2 to Rholupat, I asked to Wong (as he is another official Willsound reseller) and he took me a pic of his MK2 rev2 and here also, it looks exactly like Rholupat I received.
> Here is the picture he send to me via mail :
> 
> 
> ...


Would you mind sharing who Wong is and the contact info?  thanks!


----------



## subwoof3r

toear said:


> Would you mind sharing who Wong is and the contact info?  thanks!



Sure! here is his direct mail : waewae (at) ymail.com (or "Wong Kuan Waeon" via Facebook)
Cheers'


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 27, 2018)

groucho69 said:


> Keeping Up Appearances



Ah.. I bought the box set a few years ago but have only watched a few.  I forgot about it. I have real problems understanding English accents.  I have been in the Uk (near London) for almost 12 years ...you would think it would be easier, but my husband is Scottish not English...and, we watch a lot more American and Canadian TV shows than we do British ones.

Back to the topic of buds.  My Willsound MK1 rev 2 has been in the UK since early Sunday morning but Royal Mail does not have it yet so still in customs I assume.

Also, recently I bought an oldie.. the Pioneer SE-CE521.  I really love the sound but not sure how well the cable will last...no strain relief at all.  £12 on amazon uk. I should add...I find them very comfortable...not sure why.


----------



## Saoshyant

This reminds me, as I was probably one of the few that liked the American version of Touching Evil, I really should try the British version.


----------



## subwoof3r

I agree with what someone said here, Willsound MK1 has more sub-bass than MK2.
But MK2 is more mid-bass forwarded.

Soundstage is much larger on MK1 (lateral and depth especially).
Finally after all this burning, I begin to prefer MK1 over MK2, it has something very special.
MK2 sound more like a classic earbud (on the go, very fun and easy listening for all genres).

What I really like overall on these WIllsound are the transparency and their excellent natural sounding, which impress me everyday.
Not sure if I want to sell my MK1 anymore, haha
Since I have my WIllsounds, my TH900 really takes the dirt since!

Do someone tried the *20/20hz frequency test* on their Willsound(s) yet? I can't hear anything above 14800kz (approx) on both pairs (not sure if it's due to me or the earbuds limits?).


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 27, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> Do someone tried the *20/20hz frequency test* on their Willsound(s) yet? I can't hear anything above 14800kz (approx) on both pairs (not sure if it's due to me or the earbuds limits?).



Year by year we lose more and more of the high frequencies.  That is probably the limit of your hearing.  You could check to see if your other gear goes higher. 

Fortunately most musical information is lower than many people think.  People who only hear up to 8-10000kz will still enjoy music and not feel deprived.

BTW you are not making my wait for the Willsounds any easier!


----------



## subwoof3r

mbwilson111 said:


> Year by year we lose more and more of the high frequencies.  That is probably the limit of your hearing.  You could check to see if your other gear goes higher.
> 
> Fortunately most musical information is lower than many people think.  People who only hear up to 8-10000kz will still enjoy music and not feel deprived.


I'm only 33 years old 
I just did a try with my TH900 and I heard until 15300khz, which is a bit better, so probably the limit of the earbuds itself I guess.
Anyway, will do a proper hearing test IRL one day just to be sure.



mbwilson111 said:


> BTW you are not making my wait for the Willsounds any easier!


Sorry


----------



## seanc6441

d


subwoof3r said:


> I'm only 33 years old
> I just did a try with my TH900 and I heard until 15300khz, which is a bit better, so probably the limit of the earbuds itself I guess.
> Anyway, will do a proper hearing test IRL one day just to be sure.
> 
> ...


more likely the th900 has more emphasis in extended region


----------



## Drohun (Apr 27, 2018)

PM me if anyone is intrested!


----------



## tnelmo

groucho69 said:


> Keeping Up Appearances



Yes!


mbwilson111 said:


> Ah.. I bought the box set a few years ago but have only watched a few.  I forgot about it. I have real problems understanding English accents.  I have been in the Uk (near London) for almost 12 years ...you would think it would be easier, but my husband is Scottish not English...and, we watch a lot more American and Canadian TV shows than we do British ones.
> 
> Back to the topic of buds.  My Willsound MK1 rev 2 has been in the UK since early Sunday morning but Royal Mail does not have it yet so still in customs I assume.
> 
> Also, recently I bought an oldie.. the Pioneer SE-CE521.  I really love the sound but not sure how well the cable will last...no strain relief at all.  £12 on amazon uk. I should add...I find them very comfortable...not sure why.





mbwilson111 said:


> Which one is that?





groucho69 said:


> Keeping Up Appearances



Yes!  Good old Hyacinth Bucket, pronounced Bouquet.  Perhaps you've similarly traumatized your postman.


----------



## Yobster69

mbwilson111 said:


> Ah.. I bought the box set a few years ago but have only watched a few.  I forgot about it. I have real problems understanding English accents.  I have been in the Uk (near London) for almost 12 years ...you would think it would be easier, but my husband is Scottish not English...and, we watch a lot more American and Canadian TV shows than we do British ones.
> 
> Back to the topic of buds.  My Willsound MK1 rev 2 has been in the UK since early Sunday morning but Royal Mail does not have it yet so still in customs I assume.
> 
> Also, recently I bought an oldie.. the Pioneer SE-CE521.  I really love the sound but not sure how well the cable will last...no strain relief at all.  £12 on amazon uk. I should add...I find them very comfortable...not sure why.


Ah, if you have this box set then surely you have at least some of Only Fools And Horses? If you want to get used to the English accent and humour then this is an absolute must have. Del, Rodney and Grandad/Uncle will acclimatise your ears. And make you cry with laughter and sadness in one fail swoop.
They sound great through earbuds as well (at least trying to keep it somewhat on topic )


----------



## toear

subwoof3r said:


> Sure! here is his direct mail : waewae (at) ymail.com (or "Wong Kuan Waeon" via Facebook)
> Cheers'


thank you!


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 27, 2018)

Yobster69 said:


> Ah, if you have this box set then surely you have at least some of Only Fools And Horses? If you want to get used to the English accent and humour then this is an absolute must have. Del, Rodney and Grandad/Uncle will acclimatise your ears. And make you cry with laughter and sadness in one fail swoop.
> They sound great through earbuds as well (at least trying to keep it somewhat on topic )



I will check it out. Not familiar with it.  My husband probably is.. I will ask him when he is home from work.

As for listening with buds...I will stick with our 5.1 setup for tv and movie.  My buds, iems and headphones are for music only.  I have no idea why I have so many.  It is crazy really.


----------



## Yobster69

mbwilson111 said:


> I will check it out. Not familiar with it.  My husband probably is.. I will ask him when he is home from work.
> 
> As for listening with buds...I will stick with our 5.1 setup for tv and movie.  My buds, iems and headphones are for music only.  I have no idea why I have so many.  It is crazy really.


Oh of course, you can’t beat a good home cinema set up for TV, myself included. Though I can’t believe that after so many years in the UK, England especially (though not that it will matter), that you have never heard of Only Fools! David Jason (lead character) is a national treasure. It’s the most popular and famous comedy series in UK history...... 
Just keep in mind that if you think you’ve heard that joke or saying before then it probably come from this series in the first place!


----------



## handwander

handwander said:


> Can anyone list some buds with no "stem" part in the body, like these?



Actually does anyone have an ID for these, or something identical looking? Can't seem to find anything with a body that is THIS small and flat.


----------



## toear

subwoof3r said:


> I agree with what someone said here, Willsound MK1 has more sub-bass than MK2.
> But MK2 is more mid-bass forwarded.
> 
> Soundstage is much larger on MK1 (lateral and depth especially).
> ...



Is this the mk1 rev2 you are referring to? (the red ones?) 

Thx?


----------



## tayo15

Hey guys, I have misplaced my fave earbuds so far. (Penon Experience bs1). 
Should I still go for the bs1 official or?? So far the experience bs1 have been one of my faves. I like specially female vocals and soundstage.


----------



## chinmie

toear said:


> Is this the mk1 rev2 you are referring to? (the red ones?)
> 
> Thx?



 might be wrong, but unless by request, it's (the shell) usually white for MK1, black for MK2, red for MK3, and dark blue for 300ohm. the cables are not fix though


----------



## capnjack

toear said:


> Is this the mk1 rev2 you are referring to? (the red ones?)
> 
> Thx?


I’d agree and say that it was. It is a fairly accurate summary of how I hear mine.


----------



## j4100

subwoof3r said:


> Also, not sure I will order to Rholupat anymore as it's now my second mail sended via website form and never received a single answer, so personally I do not recommand this seller. I will order next time to Wong directly as he replied to me very quickly.



Adhi is pretty quick at replying on FB messenger.


----------



## rayliam80

My Seahf AWK-F150C and Moondrop Nameless ordered from the AE Anniversary Sale arrived last week. The AWK-F150C is immediately comes off as bass heavy as mentioned here throughout the thread - feels like I scooped out the mid section a bit without ever having touched the eq, v-shaped for sure, definitely not disappointing in the bass department.  Reminds me a little bit of my Koss Porta Pro with the center foam cut out. However, I used all the foams it came with (3 sets) just to get them to sit decently in my ear. I tried them with and without the triple stacked foam and the highs do become slightly more recessed and the bass a bit more boomy (probably contributing to more of the v-shape) with the foam.

But the fit - is this normal with earbuds? I haven't owned any old school style earbuds like these in at least ten years or more. I also find that turning the wire connector guide upwards and wearing the cable over my ear helps to keep them in place a bit better rather than wearing them drop down style.

With the Nameless, I was able to wear it comfortably with 1 set of foams while pointing the wire connector guide forward/upward and again, looping the wire over my ears. The Nameless may be bass light in comparison but it's not completely without - bass guitars seem to pop a little more compared to the AWK-F150C, for example. Vocals are much more forward with a greater sense of presence and clarity. Guitars are definitely more forward too. Overall, the Nameless is balanced, more spacious sounding, resolves instrument separation/details better compared to the AWK-F150C. After awhile, between the two, this tuning began to grow on me more especially with music that was not particularly bass heavy.

Neither of them are spectacular sounding. I find the Nameless to be more interesting in it's tuning than the AWK-F150C though. I'm unsure if I'll buy more buds in the near future but with Head-Fi, never say never  Recommendations on what to purchase next are totally welcome. 
_
These impressions were solely sourced from my Macbook Pro 2012 -> Audirvana -> Dragonfly Red in 24/96khz forced upsampling mode from 16/44.1 FLAC files ripped from my CD collection._


----------



## dheepak10 (Apr 28, 2018)

Deleted


----------



## dheepak10 (May 3, 2018)

Got them delivered today. A big thanks to Adhi Rholupat for getting them super quick to India. OOTB I like the MK1 better than MK2. MK2 is a tad too bassy around 250 Hz region for my taste but with a slight EQ sounds nice and neutral. MK1 has a unique sound stage; sounds like a concert hall (maybe due to resonance) and the sound signature is balanced with slightly recessed mids - sufficient mid bass and slightly boosted sub region (a tad overdone IMO). Bass texture is average on the MK1. It lacks airiness at the highs which impacts separation to some extent.

After sufficient time on both, I starting liking the MK2 more. The mid-bass boom can be controlled by changing the angle of the earbuds slightly so that the vents in the rear are not blocked. The MK2s are definitely more resolving - texture on bass and mids are really good.

The faceplate of MK2 is more comfortable to wear than than MK1, but the MK1 looks more premium. I keep switching between the two to enjoy them both.

Are these an upgrade over EMX500 and Edifier H180? Definitely! But still the H180 punches way above its price tag.


----------



## seanc6441

tayo15 said:


> Hey guys, I have misplaced my fave earbuds so far. (Penon Experience bs1).
> Should I still go for the bs1 official or?? So far the experience bs1 have been one of my faves. I like specially female vocals and soundstage.


The official is an upgrade in every department and has the same shell design so if the fit was good for you then you’ll enjoy the official.

Only word of caution is the weight of the cable, I overcame the issue by wearing them over ear but if that’s not as option for you then maybe look elsewhere.

I suggest getting the VE EX Pack foams to use the thick donut on them as they fit the best and add seal for a secure fit this way. Also I found the sound to be excellent like this when I did the little multi hole mod to the foam as seen above (if you cannot find it ask me and I’ll show you).


----------



## subwoof3r

I finally took two shots of my own WIllsound MK1 (rev 2) and MK2 (rev 2), that I received. Here it is :

 

 

As we can see, sometimes the grid may change from black to white (for the MK2).
Anyway, the sound looks sililar from what I can read here and there.



toear said:


> Is this the mk1 rev2 you are referring to? (the red ones?)
> 
> Thx?


Then yes  (its just sometimes I don't precise rev 2, but yeah both my WIllsound earbuds are rev 2).


----------



## toear (Apr 28, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> Then yes  (its just sometimes I don't precise rev 2, but yeah both my WIllsound earbuds are rev 2).



Ok thank you !

**edited out a secondary question that I found an answer for * *


----------



## mbwilson111

dheepak10 said:


> Got them delivered today. A big thanks to Adhi Rholupat for getting them super quick to India. OOTB I like the MK1 better than MK2. MK2





subwoof3r said:


> I finally took two shots of my own WIllsound MK1 (rev 2) and MK2 (rev 2), that I received. Here it is :



My MK1 rev2 is still sitting somewhere between Heathrow and my house  These pictures are making the wait more and more difficult!   


That is cool that the cases have different colored edging so you know which is which if you have more than one Willsound.  I will stick with one... I have too much already.  Just could not resist the Willsound hype.


----------



## 40760

j4100 said:


> Think mine was around 3 weeks, depending on where you live it might be 2-4 weeks, l guess.



Thanks for replying! Mine has been shipped out by the seller today... The wait begins...


----------



## ctaxxxx

Got my Liebesleid with 2.5mm plug in. Also, some tea and Faaeal buds too as additional goodies. 

 

A quick listen reminded me how bassy and smooth my Diomnes buds and Z1R headphones. It's been awhile since I've had something more analytical, so it's pretty refreshing. The bass extension is much better than I remember it being too. Putting them on the burner. Will see how noticeable the jump to balanced is from AMP1 SE to AMP4 on the iBasso DX200. 

On another note, bought the Oriolus mk2 IEM for a great price. It's been awhile since I've been in the IEM game, and these should have a similar sound to the Diomnes. A comparison is definitely on my list of things to do.


----------



## chinmie

ctaxxxx said:


> Got my Liebesleid with 2.5mm plug in. Also, some tea and Faaeal buds too as additional goodies.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Did you got yours from taufan (from Indonesia)?


----------



## ctaxxxx

chinmie said:


> Did you got yours from taufan (from Indonesia)?


Yeah. 

He also has a Poseidon for sale, but I decided to pass until I got an IEM that I was satisfied with.


----------



## subwoof3r

Could someone please make a quick detailed comparison between Willsound MK2 (rev 2) and MK3 ? would be interesting (hesitating to buy the MK3 but I'm pretty sure it's almost the same as MK2)
Many thanks in advance


----------



## toear (Apr 28, 2018)

chinmie said:


> might be wrong, but unless by request, it's (the shell) usually white for MK1, black for MK2, red for MK3, and dark blue for 300ohm. the cables are not fix though


Thank you! I did not see a 300 ohm version... Is this one you have to specifically request?

Much appreciated! 

**edited for clarity..  Dyac! **


----------



## toear

capnjack said:


> I’d agree and say that it was. It is a fairly accurate summary of how I hear mine.


Thx!


----------



## chinmie

ctaxxxx said:


> Yeah.
> 
> He also has a Poseidon for sale, but I decided to pass until I got an IEM that I was satisfied with.




 

That explains the tea


----------



## chinmie

toear said:


> Thank you! I did not see a 300 ohm version... Is this one you have to specifically request?
> 
> Much appreciated!
> 
> **edited for clarity..  Dyac! **



Not really, the 300ohm is one of the line product and not specifically made, although it is not as popular the MK's and while it can be easily driven by phones, it benefits from high gain amp to make them more alive. The MK1 is the closest in sound to the 300ohm


----------



## 40760

I was out today and saw some Sennheiser MX365 and MX375 on sale at the local mall. Are they any good? Can't seem to find much info about them...


----------



## Saoshyant

I enjoyed the MX375 enough that I can listen to them for hours.  Fun earbuds with an interesting design.


----------



## 40760

Saoshyant said:


> I enjoyed the MX375 enough that I can listen to them for hours.  Fun earbuds with an interesting design.



I almost bought the MX375 but there was no demo set for me to try before I buy... I'll perhaps grab a pair when I get back there again.

Would you rate these better than the Monk Plus? They cost about 3x the price of the monks here @ US$27.


----------



## Saoshyant

For my tastes I prefer them to the Monk, but I enjoy a fun sound.


----------



## 40760

Saoshyant said:


> For my tastes I prefer them to the Monk, but I enjoy a fun sound.



Alright! seems like I really have to try these out... I used to own a pair of MX500 a long time ago and have liked those pretty much...


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> I was out today and saw some Sennheiser MX365 and MX375 on sale at the local mall. Are they any good? Can't seem to find much info about them...





Saoshyant said:


> I enjoyed the MX375 enough that I can listen to them for hours.  Fun earbuds with an interesting design.





palestofwhite said:


> I almost bought the MX375 but there was no demo set for me to try before I buy... I'll perhaps grab a pair when I get back there again.
> 
> Would you rate these better than the Monk Plus? They cost about 3x the price of the monks here @ US$27.





Saoshyant said:


> For my tastes I prefer them to the Monk, but I enjoy a fun sound.



 I also prefer the MX375 to the Monk.  Very addictive sound.  Great all rounder.  I have also listened for hours and hours with them.  Not sure if that is good or bad... lol.   I bought mine on Amazon UK a few months ago for £13 which is about $18.  I see that they are now £14.  I find them very comfortable and easy to position.


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> I also prefer the MX375 to the Monk.  Very addictive sound.  Great all rounder.  I have also listened for hours and hours with them.  Not sure if that is good or bad... lol.   I bought mine on Amazon UK a few months ago for £13 which is about $18.  I see that they are now £14.  I find them very comfortable and easy to position.



You guys really make it easier for me to make up my mind, but really hard on my wallet!


----------



## Saoshyant

Then certainly avoid the budget earbuds thread.  It's harder to say no when they're inexpensive.


----------



## 40760

Saoshyant said:


> Then certainly avoid the budget earbuds thread.  It's harder to say no when they're inexpensive.



I'd admit it's mainly due to my own lack of discipline more than anything else...


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 29, 2018)

palestofwhite said:


> I'd admit it's mainly due to my own lack of discipline more than anything else...



ah lack of discipline... so that is what it is...I wondered why my list was getting too long...

I see the Sennheiser MX375 sells in the US on amazon for $15 right now (list price $20).  They have them in red, blue and white.  I did not even know that they came in colors other than black.  Mine are black which seems to be the only  color available here in the UK...at least on Amazon.

edited to correct the above... my search on amazon for the 375 took me to a listing for the 365...no wonder I was surprised to see the colors.  I guess I need more than 5 hours of sleep.

 Sorry that they cost more in your country.  Is that the case with many things?

BTW, I do love my monks too.  I have a purple one and a coffee color one.  I just have a harder time fitting them sometimes.  When I use them, I can also listen for hours but they won't stay in  my ears if I walk around.

edited to add, I tried to look at your profile page to see what else you have (if you have filled it out).  This is what it says :   This member limits who may view their full profile.

Have you done this for a reason or did it just happen when the forum host changed?  Some people have had to tick (or is it un-tick) a box if they do want people to read their profile.


----------



## toear

palestofwhite said:


> I was out today and saw some Sennheiser MX365 and MX375 on sale at the local mall. Are they any good? Can't seem to find much info about them...


I have the mx 365 and they are ok. They sound muddy compared to my h180, faael 64ohm and e100... Bassier than the others. If you want more bass seahf 64ohm would be my pick. I saw them on sale as low as $10cad but average is $20cad. Not sure about the mx375s

Not bad but for the money I would now choose others... And wait for the mail...


----------



## toear

chinmie said:


> Not really, the 300ohm is one of the line product and not specifically made, although it is not as popular the MK's and while it can be easily driven by phones, it benefits from high gain amp to make them more alive. The MK1 is the closest in sound to the 300ohm


Thanks! Can you clarify what you mean by 'one of the line product'? Or would you happen to have a link? ... Much appreciated!


----------



## Saoshyant

@mbwilson111 Hmm, I'm not seeing the other colors.


----------



## seanc6441

I had the MX365 and then MX375 for awhile back when I was using earpods and they were an upgrade to those, the mids were noticeably smoother. Probably on equal footing to the Monks and similar level earbuds just a different signature.

I wouldn’t call them great value for money in todays market though, especially when you can buy stuff that will sound much superior for a similar price.


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> ah lack of discipline... so that is what it is...I wondered why my list was getting too long...
> 
> I see the Sennheiser MX375 sells in the US on amazon for $15 right now (list price $20).  They have them in red, blue and white.  I did not even know that they came in colors other than black.  Mine are black which seems to be the only  color available here in the UK...at least on Amazon.  Sorry that they cost more in your country.  Is that the case with many things?
> 
> ...



Hmmm... must have been my past settings which were done eons ago... Actually I doubt I ever updated or have set a profile to being with... I'll need to dig around a bit more as I'm unfamiliar with the new interface.

The MX375 are retailed at S$35 in my country, which works out to about 19 Quids? Not exactly the cheapest, but they are readily available at major electronics and hardware stores. Though no one buys them these days after IEMs got popular.




toear said:


> I have the mx 365 and they are ok. They sound muddy compared to my h180, faael 64ohm and e100... Bassier than the others. If you want more bass seahf 64ohm would be my pick. I saw them on sale as low as $10cad but average is $20cad. Not sure about the mx375s
> 
> Not bad but for the money I would now choose others... And wait for the mail...



The MX365 are only S$3 cheaper here, so I'll get the MX375 to try first when I have the chance. I've heard of good things from the Chinese brands you've mentioned, but have not gone too deeply into them (yet). I'll definitely go check them out when AE have one of their sale events.


----------



## chinmie

toear said:


> Thanks! Can you clarify what you mean by 'one of the line product'? Or would you happen to have a link? ... Much appreciated!



i mean they are the product that he used makes continuously (not one time only or limited run), but from what i see in his store page, he might run out of stock or discontinued them. i bought it straight from him because i live in indonesia https://www.tokopedia.com/willsound?source=universe&st=product


----------



## toear

chinmie said:


> i mean they are the product that he used makes continuously (not one time only or limited run), but from what i see in his store page, he might run out of stock or discontinued them. i bought it straight from him because i live in indonesia https://www.tokopedia.com/willsound?source=universe&st=product


Ah I see... Thank you!

Do you find the 300ohm version more resolving?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 29, 2018)

Saoshyant said:


> @mbwilson111 Hmm, I'm not seeing the other colors.



this is what amazon.com shows me

https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-MX-365-Earphones-White/dp/B004ZLV1IA/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1525002952&sr=8-4&keywords=sennheiser+earbuds&th=1

I had only glanced at it earlier... these don't look right do they?

Here are mine:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0076Z7668/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

edit:  that first link is the MX365.  I had searched for 375 and that came up.  I remember reading about both at the time that I bought mine.  the 365 is said to be not as good as the the 375.

I will leave the links in case someone wants to compare the two models.

I guess I was not awake yet when I posted earlier.  I accidentally stayed up all night listening to music with a new IEM.


----------



## chinmie

toear said:


> Ah I see... Thank you!
> 
> Do you find the 300ohm version more resolving?



i like the bass on the willsound, so i like the MK1 and MK2 better. the 300ohm has a great intimate soundstage though. i should check out the MK3...haven't have the chance yet


----------



## RuFrost (Apr 29, 2018)

Have anybody heard anything better than ABnormal Diomnes LV2 or matching it?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 29, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> I had the MX365 and then MX375 for awhile back when I was using earpods and they were an upgrade to those, the mids were noticeably smoother. Probably on equal footing to the Monks and similar level earbuds just a different signature.
> 
> I wouldn’t call them great value for money in todays market though, especially when you can buy stuff that will sound much superior for a similar price.



I have found the MX375 to be good value for money for the £13 with free next day delivery that I paid.  Sometimes I don't feel like waiting for weeks for something to come from China.  I like them enough and find them comfortable enough that I am happy with my purchase.

What have you done with the ones that you had a while back?  Did they eventually break?

I did find the correct link on amazon.com for the MX375 - $37...twice what I paid


https://www.amazon.com/MX-375-Ohrstöpsel-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B0076Z7668/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1525016123&sr=1-4&keywords=sennheiser+mx375


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 29, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I have found the MX375 to be good value for money for the £13 with free next day delivery that I paid.  Sometimes I don't feel like waiting for weeks for something to come from China.  I like them enough and find them comfortable enough that I am happy with my purchase.
> 
> What have you done with the ones that you had a while back?  Did they eventually break?
> 
> ...


I had them about 4-5 years ago during my school years so I probably lost them one day. I wasn’t a big audio person back then and just bought what I found in the stores and was content with anything half decent.

All I remember was that I kept losing the foams and thinking they were a pain in the ass to keep on the buds xD It’s funny how I find them much easier to maintain now that I have a little more care with my earbuds and don’t just fling them around the place ^^


----------



## toear

capnjack said:


> I’d agree and say that it was. It is a fairly accurate summary of how I hear mine.


Thx!


----------



## toear

chinmie said:


> i like the bass on the willsound, so i like the MK1 and MK2 better. the 300ohm has a great intimate soundstage though. i should check out the MK3...haven't have the chance yet


Ok thx!  As for the MK3 let me know when you do...


----------



## 40760

I have a MK3 coming my way so I might be able to chime in on this when I get them...


----------



## SweetEars

there is somethign wrong with my emx-s 500 ... the sound became mufflled... not sure if  its final signature?


----------



## cathee

SweetEars said:


> there is somethign wrong with my emx-s 500 ... the sound became mufflled... not sure if  its final signature?



Which manufacturer did you get yours from? I've found that they do vary quite a bit in build quality...


----------



## SweetEars (Apr 30, 2018)

cathee said:


> Which manufacturer did you get yours from? I've found that they do vary quite a bit in build quality...


fengru ..........think its defective... cos the tattling is present in left bud....


----------



## cathee

SweetEars said:


> fengru ..........think its defective... cos the tattling is present in left bud....



Interesting. All three pairs of my earbuds from woo had the same problem with the left bud as well.... Wonder if it's too early to be calling it a pattern.

If anyone can link a tutorial to earbud re-soldering I would greatly appreciate that. TIA.


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

Simphonio Dragon 2+ has such incredible mids, so intimate it feels like you are in the booth with the vocalist...


----------



## golov17

Oscar-HiFi said:


> Simphonio Dragon 2+ has such incredible mids, so intimate it feels like you are in the booth with the vocalist...


Really impressive earbuds.


----------



## stocamadas

Oscar-HiFi said:


> Simphonio Dragon 2+ has such incredible mids, so intimate it feels like you are in the booth with the vocalist...



Is it a bright or dark earbud ?


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

stocamadas said:


> Is it a bright or dark earbud ?



Balanced, with good body and sparkling highs.


----------



## subwoof3r

golov17 said:


> Really impressive earbuds.


For the price I really hope it is ! lol


----------



## golov17

subwoof3r said:


> For the price I really hope it is ! lol


Well.. much better than NW Studio Neo, with more balanced sig.. IMHO


----------



## noknok23

subwoof3r said:


> For the price I really hope it is ! lol


I have them since a couple of days and I think they compare very favorably compare to flagships worth half the price. Only the build is so-so. I guess at this price point we are into diminishing returns


----------



## ctaxxxx (May 1, 2018)

Oscar-HiFi said:


> Simphonio Dragon 2+ has such incredible mids, so intimate it feels like you are in the booth with the vocalist...





Oscar-HiFi said:


> Balanced, with good body and sparkling highs.



Makes me think a more balanced Shozy BK with that description.

I'm undecided with the Liebesleid at the moment, as it's lack of body in the vocals is jarring when compared to my Diomnes, which is really thick.

Maybe the Simphonio will be in between? I may end up buying it and selling Liebesleid again...

I think the Liebesleid might just pair better with a smoother iBasso amp module (I should try that now with AMP2). I've listened to only the Diomnes and Z1R for far too long. My preferences have changed a bit since I've last owned the Liebesleid (almost a year ago?).


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

ctaxxxx said:


> Makes me think a more balanced Shozy BK with that description.
> 
> I'm undecided with the Liebesleid at the moment, as it's lack of body in the vocals is jarring when compared to my Diomnes, which is really thick.
> 
> ...



I need to try the Simphonio with my DX200 + Amp3, but they sound soo good out of the Opus #2. No lack of body in the midrange, but it is detailed and open, not thick but perfectly balanced. There is a little bit of added sparkle up top, but they never sound harsh or fatiguing.

I'm using them with foams on.


----------



## chinmie

ctaxxxx said:


> Makes me think a more balanced Shozy BK with that description.
> 
> I'm undecided with the Liebesleid at the moment, as it's lack of body in the vocals is jarring when compared to my Diomnes, which is really thick.
> 
> ...



you're more or less correct. i personally feel the dragon 2+ sounds like the BK but with a less punchy mids, more resolving treble, and a much bigger soundstage.

and yes, as @noknok23 said, it's still in the same class (SQ wise) as the Liebesleid  Poseidon  and Mojito... not better. signature-wise, the dragon is the most all arounder compared to the other flagship with no glaring shortcoming. the only gripe i can think of is for the price, i wish they use a better build than that plain old plastic look


----------



## ctaxxxx (May 1, 2018)

chinmie said:


> you're more or less correct. i personally feel the dragon 2+ sounds like the BK but with a less punchy mids, more resolving treble, and a much bigger soundstage.
> 
> and yes, as @noknok23 said, it's still in the same class (SQ wise) as the Liebesleid  Poseidon  and Mojito... not better. signature-wise, the dragon is the most all arounder compared to the other flagship with no glaring shortcoming. the only gripe i can think of is for the price, i wish they use a better build than that plain old plastic look



Can't decide if that's what I'm looking for. I may just dip for an TOTL IEM (like the Campfire Andromeda?) for detailed, airy treble, large soundstage, and full mids. Liebesleid is not quite there with instrumental, vocal, and classical type music for me _(edit: actually not sure. It depends on the song. Sounds really great with some.)_. I think above neutral tonality, I may prefer IEMs due to their speed and accuracy, though I haven't heard much above $500 to know if the soundstage is comparable to a TOTL earbud. The ones that I have heard haven't impressed me.


What if we made a tonality scale of the more recognizable TOTL buds? (since I'm bored too)


Poseidon . . Diomnes . . ShozyBK . . Dragon2+ . . Liebesleid . . Mojito
<------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------>
*Dark* . . . . . . *Warm* . . . . *Natural* . . . *Neutral* . . . . *Detailed* . . . *Bright
*
_(Landscape if you are on mobile) - edit: fixed formatting with periods.
_

I haven't heard Poseidon, but I have read it's L-shaped, leaning towards warmth. Someone can confirm this part.

I'm not sure on the Shozy BK. It has that spike to give it a little more treble energy to balance out the warm vocal density, at least from what I remember.

I think CampFred 2 can be described as detailed, since it has more energy than what I would describe as neutral.


----------



## seanc6441 (May 1, 2018)

ctaxxxx said:


> Can't decide if that's what I'm looking for. I may just dip for an TOTL IEM (like the Campfire Andromeda?) for detailed, airy treble, large soundstage, and full mids. Liebesleid is not quite there with instrumental, vocal, and classical type music for me. I think above neutral tonality, I may prefer IEMs due to their speed and accuracy, though I haven't heard much above $500 to know if the soundstage is comparable to a TOTL earbud. The ones that I have heard haven't impressed me.
> 
> 
> What if we made a tonality scale of the more recognizable TOTL buds? (since I'm bored too)
> ...


Mojito is neutral-slightly bright to my ears with a modest U signature especially on the bass end. I’m not hearing this excessive brightness people have mentioned, my Masya sounds notably brighter in the upper mids.

Shozy BK is definitely as you described, cutting the line between warm and neutral which can be called natural I guess, with a slight inverted U signature. Anything between Bk and Mojito sounds natural to my ears.


----------



## Saoshyant

@ctaxxxx I should be well covered owning Poseidon, Mojito and CampFreds.


----------



## ctaxxxx

seanc6441 said:


> Mojito is neutral-slightly bright to my ears with a modest U signature especially on the bass end. I’m not hearing this excessive brightness people have mentioned, my Masya sounds notably brighter in the upper mids.
> 
> Shozy BK is definitely as you described, cutting the line between warm and neutral which can be called natural I guess, with a slight inverted U signature. Anything between Bk and Mojito sounds natural to my ears.



Could be. When I had them, I had the Onkyo DP-X1, which is a bright DAP. Combined that with the Mojito, my ears were hurting. I don't think I had a warm source at the time.



Saoshyant said:


> @ctaxxxx I should be well covered owning Poseidon, Mojito and CampFreds.



I think you could add a few more to your collection. Gotta make sure you cover all the bases lol.

Actually, I think Cypherus buds could fit all of them except for bright.

*Dark: *Blue Darth
*Warm: *ZoomFred
*Natural: *QFred
*Neutral: *CAX Black
*Detailed: *CampFred


----------



## jogawag (May 2, 2018)

I have bought "FENGRU DIY TC200" (the appearance is "TINGO TG35S").
http://www.aliexpress.com/item//32687542028.html

When I listen this with VE thin pad, I feel this sounds like "MX985". (Maybe being influenced by the product name?)


----------



## noknok23

ctaxxxx said:


> Can't decide if that's what I'm looking for. I may just dip for an TOTL IEM (like the Campfire Andromeda?) for detailed, airy treble, large soundstage, and full mids. Liebesleid is not quite there with instrumental, vocal, and classical type music for me _(edit: actually not sure. It depends on the song. Sounds really great with some.)_. I think above neutral tonality, I may prefer IEMs due to their speed and accuracy, though I haven't heard much above $500 to know if the soundstage is comparable to a TOTL earbud. The ones that I have heard haven't impressed me.
> 
> 
> What if we made a tonality scale of the more recognizable TOTL buds? (since I'm bored too)
> ...


I find the swd2+ quite laid-back because of the lean bass and open soundstage. Sub bass is rolled off. Mids and bass have body, althought very defined with a nice contour. As Golov said earlier, it's a "gentle" sound. (I quite agree with that) 
PS: I'm using a rather warm source.


----------



## handwander

ctaxxxx said:


> Can't decide if that's what I'm looking for. I may just dip for an TOTL IEM (like the Campfire Andromeda?) for detailed, airy treble, large soundstage, and full mids. Liebesleid is not quite there with instrumental, vocal, and classical type music for me _(edit: actually not sure. It depends on the song. Sounds really great with some.)_. I think above neutral tonality, I may prefer IEMs due to their speed and accuracy, though I haven't heard much above $500 to know if the soundstage is comparable to a TOTL earbud. The ones that I have heard haven't impressed me.
> 
> 
> What if we made a tonality scale of the more recognizable TOTL buds? (since I'm bored too)
> ...



Where are the NiceHCK EBXs on this scale? And perhaps not totl but the Penon BS1?


----------



## chinmie

ctaxxxx said:


> Can't decide if that's what I'm looking for. I may just dip for an TOTL IEM (like the Campfire Andromeda?) for detailed, airy treble, large soundstage, and full mids. Liebesleid is not quite there with instrumental, vocal, and classical type music for me _(edit: actually not sure. It depends on the song. Sounds really great with some.)_. I think above neutral tonality, I may prefer IEMs due to their speed and accuracy, though I haven't heard much above $500 to know if the soundstage is comparable to a TOTL earbud. The ones that I have heard haven't impressed me.
> 
> 
> What if we made a tonality scale of the more recognizable TOTL buds? (since I'm bored too)
> ...



i agree with that tonal scale you made. that's exactly how i would put them (both scenarios: with the same foam tipe on all of them, and also with the best suited foam tipe for each of them) 

me personally, for above usd 300/400, i would buy iems, because i think the technology is better suited for iems at that range. earbuds seems to stagnant around higher usd 300 at the moment.. as i feel the Poseidon and Dragon 2+ (while undeniably great) is a bit overpriced compared to the Mojito and Liebesleid. 

for a speedy iems, i would go for BAs. i love the ER4XR, and if I'm not mistaken ClieOS also fancy an Etymotic as his benchmark (i forgot the ER4SR or the ER4S). it will not have the fun and punchy sound of dynamics, but for speed, the BAs takes the cake



seanc6441 said:


> Mojito is neutral-slightly bright to my ears with a modest U signature especially on the bass end. I’m not hearing this excessive brightness people have mentioned, my Masya sounds notably brighter in the upper mids.
> 
> Shozy BK is definitely as you described, cutting the line between warm and neutral which can be called natural I guess, with a slight inverted U signature. Anything between Bk and Mojito sounds natural to my ears.



the Mojito is much brighter than the Masya for me



handwander said:


> Where are the NiceHCK EBXs on this scale? And perhaps not totl but the Penon BS1?



haven't heard the EBX, but for the Penon, tonally i would put it between the Diomnes and BK on ctaxxxx scale


----------



## chinmie

here's mine based on tonality. each section is arranged according to the mids and treble, from the more rolled of to the more resolving

*Dark*
VE zen 2
Svara L

*Warm*
Vido
Sharp MD
Yinman 500
*
Fun V-shape-ish*
Willsound MK2
VE asura 1
Blox B200 

*Balance/neutral*
Kube
Puresounds PS100-500 
Red Demun
Liebesleid

and I'm pretty proud of myself to keep my collection at a more "manageable" size


----------



## ctaxxxx

chinmie said:


> me personally, for above usd 300/400, i would buy iems, because i think the technology is better suited for iems at that range. earbuds seems to stagnant around higher usd 300 at the moment.. as i feel the Poseidon and Dragon 2+ (while undeniably great) is a bit overpriced compared to the Mojito and Liebesleid.
> 
> for a speedy iems, i would go for BAs. i love the ER4XR, and if I'm not mistaken ClieOS also fancy an Etymotic as his benchmark (i forgot the ER4SR or the ER4S). it will not have the fun and punchy sound of dynamics, but for speed, the BAs takes the cake



Yeah, just got my Oriolus mk2 in. Impressive stuff. Finally a warm, bassy IEM that doesn't disappoint me.

I agree about the stagnation. Lack of technological innovation is really holding back TOTL earbuds at this point now. Stellar tuning can only get you so far. Cypherus keeps the fight going with the Red Dragon though! There are graphene buds now too, so I guess there is some movement. Has anyone tried slapping some BAs into an earbud yet? lol

The ER4XR are great. Do they come in balanced? I think my favorite BA iem though was the Grado GR10e. Very energetic mids Grado is known for. Unfortunately, it needed to be sent in for repairs like 3 times. Was one of the reasons I gravitated towards earbuds. Build quality is definitely something I'll be prioritizing with IEMs. Never had problems with my TOTL buds.


----------



## chinmie

ctaxxxx said:


> Yeah, just got my Oriolus mk2 in. Impressive stuff. Finally a warm, bassy IEM that doesn't disappoint me.
> 
> I agree about the stagnation. Lack of technological innovation is really holding back TOTL earbuds at this point now. Stellar tuning can only get you so far. Cypherus keeps the fight going with the Red Dragon though! There are graphene buds now too, so I guess there is some movement. Has anyone tried slapping some BAs into an earbud yet? lol
> 
> The ER4XR are great. Do they come in balanced? I think my favorite BA iem though was the Grado GR10e. Very energetic mids Grado is known for. Unfortunately, it needed to be sent in for repairs like 3 times. Was one of the reasons I gravitated towards earbuds. Build quality is definitely something I'll be prioritizing with IEMs. Never had problems with my TOTL buds.



That's what i thought too, why earbuds maker stops only at dual dynamic drivers and not BAs too? Or maybe it's just not possible? I wish they innovate more and not just stuck on the classic shells and shape. Maybe a custom molded earbuds would be great.  No more foams! 

I don't think the Etys sell them balanced, but you could build your own or just reterminate them.


----------



## fairx

Hi guys anybody have experience in opening and recable RX-1? Might replace cable since the sheath near the stem already split open. Need to prepare for the worst.


----------



## waynes world

Willsound Mk2's ordered. Yabadabadoo!


----------



## Stewardess2 (May 2, 2018)

Hi guys, I just received EMX500S (not 500), Yincrow X6, T-music Version2 from aliexpress and did a first impression comparison.
I don't know if these still get any love around here, but felt like a good opportunity to review the T-music as there seemed to be virtually no reviews out there.

The X6 was too laid back for my tastes, and I felt it had a mid-bass to low-mids hump. Extension was also not good. It sounded pretty balanced without foams, but still lacked the extension.
EMX500S had very deep bass. I was surprised earbuds' bass could go that deep. But treble wasn't extended enough. The mids seemed too recessed, as vocals sounded way behind the mix. Without the foams the bass got tighter but it sounded too peaky.
To my surprise the T-musics sounded the best. Sounded the most linear with a slight bass emphasis that is not overdone. Vocals went back to their proper positions and treble extension was very good, even with the foams on. Bass not as deep as EMX500s but still very decent for earbuds, and excellent for this price. Successful for a blind buy

I used donut foams for all 3 when listening.

The only thing I wanted more out of the T-music was tighter bass and better treble. None of the 3 earbuds had satisfactory treble, classical orchestral recordings just lost the impact it was supposed to have. But that's hard to achieve for earbuds, and definitely not something to expect from $12 ones. I can modestly say the T-music Version2 beats the EMX500S and X6, and will be my go-to budget earbud for some time.
If anyone knows how the Stardust, Rose Masya, or Penon BS1 improves in sound quality compared to the ones I have please let me know.


----------



## Wyville

After having been recommended the Monk+ in this thread a while back, I have been very curious about high-end earbuds and recently got the opportunity to review the Astrotec Lyra Collection, so I thought I would share my review here as well. These are the first high-end earbuds I have heard, but I hope the review will be a fun and interesting read for you (much more experienced) guys nonetheless. 

*Astrotec Lyra Collection - Attention To Detail

 *​


----------



## rkw

ctaxxxx said:


> The ER4XR are great. Do they come in balanced?





chinmie said:


> I don't think the Etys sell them balanced, but you could build your own or just reterminate them.


The ER4SR and ER4XR use MMCX connectors, so you only need to buy (or make) a balanced MMCX cable. Because of the way the earpieces stick straight out, you'll probably want to find angled connectors like the ones that Ety use:
https://www.google.com/search?q=etymotic+er4xr+mmcx&tbm=isch


----------



## 40760 (May 2, 2018)

I have the Willsound MK3 on the way... should I get the MK2 now that it's back in stock?

For those with both MK3 and MK2, are they different enough to warrant owning both?


----------



## chinmie

rkw said:


> The ER4SR and ER4XR use MMCX connectors, so you only need to buy (or make) a balanced MMCX cable. Because of the way the earpieces stick straight out, you'll probably want to find angled connectors like the ones that Ety use:
> https://www.google.com/search?q=etymotic+er4xr+mmcx&tbm=isch



regular mmcx will fit though, it has a notch to stop it from rotating


----------



## capnjack

I find this pairing to be a great match,my N5 has that warm signature that makes the nameless sing! 
Synergy?!?!


----------



## seanc6441 (May 2, 2018)

ctaxxxx said:


> Could be. When I had them, I had the Onkyo DP-X1, which is a bright DAP. Combined that with the Mojito, my ears were hurting. I don't think I had a warm source at the time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think the bass quantity, quality and slight warmth helps the mojito but the mids are slightly thinner (although not detrimentally so) than ideal for some genres but excellent for classical and jazz to my ears. Treble is beautifully extended and neutral.

For reference I’m using them on my V20, they aren’t as sensitive as you’d assume for such a low impendance bud, masya is easier to drive.

I found the vocals to only sound recessed in some foams but others made them sound in balance with the bass and treble. Gonna do a proper post about it soon as It’s still fairly new to me. They are analytical for sure but actually I find them not at all boring especially for my my radiohead albums they make all the details pop and sound so much better than with less resolving buds.


Stewardess2 said:


> Hi guys, I just received EMX500S (not 500), Yincrow X6, T-music Version2 from aliexpress and did a first impression comparison.
> I don't know if these still get any love around here, but felt like a good opportunity to review the T-music as there seemed to be virtually no reviews out there.
> 
> The X6 was too laid back for my tastes, and I felt it had a mid-bass to low-mids hump. Extension was also not good. It sounded pretty balanced without foams, but still lacked the extension.
> ...


You need to try the DIY PK2 with the VE ex pack thick foams modded like I have done. It’s just wonderfully neutral with a slightly warm tight bass, clear natural mids and well extended detailed treble. It’s very much like my shozy bk but in a budget offering.

I really recommend it for your description above of what you are looking for. Bass doesn’t extend very deep buy is very tight and has a nice punch to it. Extends about on par with most budget earbuds other than Emx500/s

It’s definitely a drier sound but the warmer bass does make it sing on my V20 and I’ve never put it in my ear and get disappointed coming from my best earbuds. It’s just about enough in every department to have in my rotation even after listening to my new Mojito. The detail is only slightly less on the pk2 which is a phenomenal feat for the price difference.


----------



## Stewardess2

seanc6441 said:


> You need to try the DIY PK2 with the VE ex pack thick foams modded like I have done. It’s just wonderfully neutral with a slightly warm tight bass, clear natural mids and well extended detailed treble. It’s very much like my shozy bk but in a budget offering.
> 
> I really recommend it for your description above of what you are looking for. Bass doesn’t extend very deep buy is very tight and has a nice punch to it. Extends about on par with most budget earbuds other than Emx500/s
> 
> It’s definitely a drier sound but the warmer bass does make it sing on my V20 and I’ve never put it in my ear and get disappointed coming from my best earbuds. It’s just about enough in every department to have in my rotation even after listening to my new Mojito. The detail is only slightly less on the pk2 which is a phenomenal feat for the price difference.



Noted. I don't know what a VE ex pack is though. is it some kind of accessory pack?


----------



## capnjack (May 2, 2018)

Stewardess2 said:


> Noted. I don't know what a VE ex pack is though. is it some kind of accessory pack?



This should explain it for you.
https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=4


----------



## seanc6441

Stewardess2 said:


> Noted. I don't know what a VE ex pack is though. is it some kind of accessory pack?


Yeah it's the accessory pack by Venture Electronics (guys who make the Monk, Asura and Zen earbuds). The $3 pack has just the foams and the $5 pack includes the ear hooks and silicone rings.

The foams are great and specifically in this use case the thick donut foams with a simple mod are perfect. I suggest you get the pack and try out the different foams on your buds regardless of getting the pk2. Good to have and I've bought 3 packs now.


----------



## Carrow

Differences between Campfred 1 and 2, anyone? I think the former has been discontinued.


----------



## seanc6441

Carrow said:


> Differences between Campfred 1 and 2, anyone? I think the former has been discontinued.


Try the search function ctaxxx has stated the differences before I think


----------



## 40760

Couldn't help it and ordered the Willsound MK2 even before the MK3 reached me...


----------



## Stewardess2 (May 2, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Yeah it's the accessory pack by Venture Electronics (guys who make the Monk, Asura and Zen earbuds). The $3 pack has just the foams and the $5 pack includes the ear hooks and silicone rings.
> 
> The foams are great and specifically in this use case the thick donut foams with a simple mod are perfect. I suggest you get the pack and try out the different foams on your buds regardless of getting the pk2. Good to have and I've bought 3 packs now.



Thanks. Looked into them and luckily my country had an official VE seller and ordered from them just now.

I read in one of your posts that the diy pk2 has better treble whereas the panda pk2s has better bass.
Would it be worth it testing out one of these or should I just invest more and buy a Shozy BK or Rose Masya instead?


----------



## ClieOS

chinmie said:


> ... and if I'm not mistaken ClieOS also fancy an Etymotic as his benchmark (i forgot the ER4SR or the ER4S).



Have both, love both. But if I have to keep one, I'll take ER4S over ER4SR as ER4S just a little more fluid with my gears. 



chinmie said:


> That's what i thought too, why earbuds maker stops only at dual dynamic drivers and not BAs too?.



You forgot about Dunu Alpha 1, the first BA+Dynamic hybrid earbud. It has a good sound but ultimately the fit is just too awkward for it to be a big hit. 



rkw said:


> The ER4SR and ER4XR use MMCX connectors, so you only need to buy (or make) a balanced MMCX cable. Because of the way the earpieces stick straight out, you'll probably want to find angled connectors like the ones that Ety use:
> https://www.google.com/search?q=etymotic+er4xr+mmcx&tbm=isch





chinmie said:


> regular mmcx will fit though, it has a notch to stop it from rotating



There are specific MMCX connector designed for SR/XR in the market now, try find those if you want to DIY your own cable.


----------



## chinmie

ClieOS said:


> You forgot about Dunu Alpha 1, the first BA+Dynamic hybrid earbud. It has a good sound but ultimately the fit is just too awkward for it to be a big hit.



no, i didn't forget, because i just know that information just now... from you  thank you for that info


----------



## DBaldock9

Working on an Equipment Inventory Audit at work today - and I've got my ToneKing TO400s connected to my Zishan Z3 (w/OPA627AU op-amp).
The TO400s are actually more efficient than my LZ A4 earphones (had to turn the Volume down several clicks) - but since they're earbuds, they don't isolate as well as the earphones.
It's a good sounding combo.


----------



## 40760

DBaldock9 said:


> Working on an Equipment Inventory Audit at work today - and I've got my ToneKing TO400s connected to my Zishan Z3 (w/OPA627AU op-amp).
> The TO400s are actually more efficient than my LZ A4 earphones (had to turn the Volume down several clicks) - but since they're earbuds, they don't isolate as well as the earphones.
> It's a good sounding combo.



It's rare to find someone who rates the VE Asura as one of their favourite earbuds. I have the 2.0s version and I like them a lot too... Do you think the Zen 2.0 is worth it?


----------



## DBaldock9

palestofwhite said:


> It's rare to find someone who rates the VE Asura as one of their favourite earbuds. I have the 2.0s version and I like them a lot too... Do you think the Zen 2.0 is worth it?



If you ever have a chance, hook up your VE Asua 2.0 to an XRK Audio "Pocket Class A" NHB (No Holds Barred - hand-tuned) Amp.  The combination really sounds great - warm and clear.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new...-xrk971-now-available-as-complete-pcb.837656/

I've never heard any of the VE Zen earbuds.  The only VE products I have, are the Monk Plus, Monk Plus Espresso, Asura 2.0 (and the Biggie & Smalls earphones).


----------



## 40760

DBaldock9 said:


> If you ever have a chance, hook up your VE Asua 2.0 to an XRK Audio "Pocket Class A" NHB (No Holds Barred - hand-tuned) Amp.  The combination really sounds great - warm and clear.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new...-xrk971-now-available-as-complete-pcb.837656/
> 
> I've never heard any of the VE Zen earbuds.  The only VE products I have, are the Monk Plus, Monk Plus Espresso, Asura 2.0 (and the Biggie & Smalls earphones).



Let me dig more into that portable amp you're talking about...  I have a few Monk Plus, Monk Lite and the Asura 2.0s, but not the Zen mainly because of the price jump...

There are claims that they're really good, but I'm wondering at the rate other Chinese brands are churning out newer and cheaper TOTL earbuds, do they even stay relevant for that price point?

Just my random thought...


----------



## snip3r77

I just gotten the pt15 and tested it for about 5mins. It's using the blue cable . I think it bettered my graphene. Why is it so ? Did I get a dud graphene?


----------



## 40760

snip3r77 said:


> I just gotten the pt15 and tested it for about 5mins. It's using the blue cable . I think it bettered my graphene. Why is it so ? Did I get a dud graphene?



I think I get what you mean... 

I have a pair of NICEHCK DIY MX760 graphene which I didn't like. I thought they might be faulty too, but maybe it's just the way they sound?


----------



## chinmie

palestofwhite said:


> It's rare to find someone who rates the VE Asura as one of their favourite earbuds. I have the 2.0s version and I like them a lot too... Do you think the Zen 2.0 is worth it?



the Zen 2 is great, but i got mine from buying a package deal, so i basically got it for free 



snip3r77 said:


> I just gotten the pt15 and tested it for about 5mins. It's using the blue cable . I think it bettered my graphene. Why is it so ? Did I get a dud graphene?



why not? maybe there's nothing wrong with your graphene and you just happen to like the PT15 more. i myself also like the PT15 more than the mx760 graphene.


----------



## snip3r77

chinmie said:


> the Zen 2 is great, but i got mine from buying a package deal, so i basically got it for free
> 
> 
> 
> why not? maybe there's nothing wrong with your graphene and you just happen to like the PT15 more. i myself also like the PT15 more than the mx760 graphene.



I saw this on your signature. Is Willsound MK2 an upgrade from the PT15?


----------



## chaiyuta

Wireless earbuds from B&O called "Earset"


----------



## BrunoC

The Willsound is in another league compared to the PT15. Much more extended in both ends of the spectrum, great clarity and balance, and fantastic separation.

I find the DIY Graphene (old) much better than the PT15. I didn't like the PT15 at all. No clarity, strange tuning, I tried other cable to no avail.


----------



## 40760 (May 3, 2018)

chinmie said:


> the Zen 2 is great, but i got mine from buying a package deal, so i basically got it for free



I'm actually aiming to acquire the zen with replaceable cables sometime later this year. I find that the jump from the Monk Plus to Asura 2.0s didn't give much of a "wow" factor, even though the latter sounds more matured and smooth.

Oh yeah... possible to do a Zen 2.0 and Willsound MK2 comparison? 



BrunoC said:


> The Willsound is in another league compared to the PT15. Much more extended in both ends of the spectrum, great clarity and balance, and fantastic separation.



If that's the case I'm glad I picked up some Willsounds.


----------



## chinmie

snip3r77 said:


> I saw this on your signature. Is Willsound MK2 an upgrade from the PT15?



different signature, but the MK2 is steps above the PT15 in SQ


palestofwhite said:


> I'm actually aiming to acquire the zen with replaceable cables sometime later this year. I find that the jump from the Monk Plus to Asura 2.0s didn't give much of a "wow" factor, even though the latter sounds more matured and smooth.
> 
> Oh yeah... possible to do a Zen 2.0 and Willsound MK2 comparison?
> 
> ...



Zen 2 have a dark and warm sound, not too extended in lows and highs, whereas the MK2 have a much more fun signature and have extended bass and treble.


----------



## 40760

chinmie said:


> Zen 2 have a dark and warm sound, not too extended in lows and highs, whereas the MK2 have a much more fun signature and have extended bass and treble.



That's very interesting... I'm so curious and still patiently waiting for them to arrive...


----------



## snip3r77

chinmie said:


> different signature, but the MK2 is steps above the PT15 in SQ
> 
> 
> Zen 2 have a dark and warm sound, not too extended in lows and highs, whereas the MK2 have a much more fun signature and have extended bass and treble.


What signature is it?


----------



## Carrow (May 3, 2018)

Got my K's 64U package in today. I don't have a set of test tracks as such but I usually put new arrivals through their paces with this! (Ooooooooh)



Good separation, probably more biased towards lows and mids on my current player (Shanling M3s). Very expressive with a good-sized soundstage, especially this particular song which has an incredibly busy composition; guitars switching channels through octaves, bunch of harmonies and backing vocals, bg guitar squall and this absolutely transcendent secondary synth hook that enters around 8:10 or so. By the end there's so much going on I expect some elements to be completely drowned out, but I can still place everything during the coda, which is impressive for a pair of buds that have just barely been taken out of their packaging. I like these already.


----------



## chinmie

snip3r77 said:


> What signature is it?



PT15 is more balanced neutral while the MK2 i would say a bit W shape-ish, with the mid is still forward


----------



## cqtek

It seems that are working on the packaging ... YINCROW RW-9.







https://es.aliexpress.com/store/pro...arbud-Metal-Earphone/1825606_32869066191.html

At least they are very well protected.

Has anyone bought them?


----------



## boblauer (May 3, 2018)

Zen is pretty dark sound signature IMO, a real 180 from Asura. No comparison again IMO. I own Zen and heard Asura a couple times.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Yeah... I'm going to be putting my Liebesleid 2.5mm up for sale (again). I liked the added treble detail over my warmer earphones, but it's still not quite what I'm looking for, despite it having a nice, clean attack on the highs.

I think it would be more accurate to call these *natural* rather than *detailed* on my tonal scale a few pages back, largely in part to the mids, which strike a good balance between being too dry and too wet. Even the treble is not overly emphasized, like you would hear with V-shaped signatures. The lighter bass emphasis keeps it from sounding too warm as well, but can be too light with thin foams (which I prefer for most earbuds).


----------



## siderak

palestofwhite said:


> I have the Willsound MK3 on the way... should I get the MK2 now that it's back in stock?
> 
> For those with both MK3 and MK2, are they different enough to warrant owning both?



If you don’t have one, get one.
If you have one, get another one.


----------



## waynes world

palestofwhite said:


> I think I get what you mean...
> I have a pair of NICEHCK DIY MX760 graphene which I didn't like. I thought they might be faulty too, but maybe it's just the way they sound?





BrunoC said:


> I find the DIY Graphene (old) much better than the PT15. I didn't like the PT15 at all. No clarity, strange tuning, I tried other cable to no avail.



To add further info, it is generally agreed upon that the Graphene (old):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...High-End-Rare-Earth-Graphene/32821104494.html

Is better than the Graphene (new):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...e-Earth-Graphene-Custom-Unit/32839988234.html

For my preferences: Graphene (new) < Senter PT15 < Graphene (old)


----------



## Saoshyant

@waynes world If we're going to distinguish old vs new graphene, the same for PT15 might be less confusing for others.


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 3, 2018)

waynes world said:


> Willsound Mk2's ordered. Yabadabadoo!



Yabadabadoo here too!  The Willsound MK1 rev2 arrived today.  No customs charges, so delivered to my house.

The box was kind of lopsided but the buds were safely packed inside. They are beautiful!









 

 



edit:  had to replace the 1st photo of the box because it was possible to see our address.


----------



## Saoshyant

For the Willsounds, which is generally considered the most fun sounding?  I mean fun vs analytical instead of most enjoyable.


----------



## mbwilson111

RED!!!!!  My newest IEM and my newest bud   Almost as good as purple...

Very busy day... busy week... getting ready for my daughter's visit from the States next Wednesday.  So not much time with either yet... just enough to know they work and  that I like them.  I listened to one song with the Willsound MK1 rev2 and then attached it to my RED Cayin N3 where it has been burning in for a few hours now.  Hoping to listen to at least a couple of albums later tonight and a few over the weekend.


----------



## waynes world

Saoshyant said:


> @waynes world If we're going to distinguish old vs new graphene, the same for PT15 might be less confusing for others.



If they sound different, then definitely. I have to "single vent" models, which I presume are the newer ones. So revised...

For my preferences: Graphene (new) < Senter PT15 (newer open vent) < Graphene (old)

To add to this, I like the Graphene (new) , am really suprised about how good the Senter PT15 (newer open vent) is for the price, and I love the Graphene (old) (and now also the Svara L (32ohm))


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> To add to this, I like the Graphene (new) , am really suprised about how good the Senter PT15 (newer open vent) is for the price, and I love the Graphene (old) (and now also the Svara L (32ohm))



...and soon the Willsound...


----------



## chinmie

ctaxxxx said:


> Yeah... I'm going to be putting my Liebesleid 2.5mm up for sale (again). I liked the added treble detail over my warmer earphones, but it's still not quite what I'm looking for, despite it having a nice, clean attack on the highs.
> 
> I think it would be more accurate to call these *natural* rather than *detailed* on my tonal scale a few pages back, largely in part to the mids, which strike a good balance between being too dry and too wet. Even the treble is not overly emphasized, like you would hear with V-shaped signatures. The lighter bass emphasis keeps it from sounding too warm as well, but can be too light with thin foams (which I prefer for most earbuds).



i only like using full hiegi foams on Liebesleid. donuts will close of the airy soundstage, and thin foams will make the bass anemic unless it pressed firmly deeper like iem style


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> If they sound different, then definitely. I have to "single vent" models, which I presume are the newer ones. So revised...
> 
> For my preferences: Graphene (new) < Senter PT15 (newer open vent) < Graphene (old)
> 
> To add to this, I like the Graphene (new) , am really suprised about how good the Senter PT15 (newer open vent) is for the price, and I love the Graphene (old) (and now also the Svara L (32ohm))



i still want to have the single vent one.  the seller messed up my last purchase by sensing the four vents version and said all the new version is back to the four vents one..


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> i still want to have the single vent one.  the seller messed up my last purchase by sensing the four vents version and said all the new version is back to the four vents one..



Sheesh! Those bud makers sure know how to complicate things!

I'm surprised they would switch back to the 4 ports since the single port sounds SO good. It really is a shame that you didn't get it.

I know! I'll swap you mine for, I don't know, what would be good enough... yes! Your Liebesleid would just do!


----------



## DBaldock9

chinmie said:


> i still want to have the single vent one.  the seller messed up my last purchase by sensing the four vents version and said all the new version is back to the four vents one..



My original set of PT15 (from Fall of 2016), was the 4-hole model, and had a very Mid- and Treble-centric sound - so it had a different driver (or tuning), than the replacement sets that I ordered in 2017.
The reason I ended up ordering replacements, was that the MMCX connector pulled out of the right earpiece.
The first replacement set still had the 4-hole shell, but much better Bass.  I also noticed, after a small amount of usage, that the MMCX connector was getting a bit loose on the left earpiece.
So, I ordered 2 more sets of PT15, at the now less-than-$10 price.
The two newer sets have the 1-hole shell, and the Bass sounds as good as the first replacement pair.

I spent today at work, using my PT15 (1-hole), connected to my Zishan Z3 (w/Muses02 op-amp) - mainly listening to Christmas, Country, and Jazz (the genres are loaded alphabetically... ).


----------



## chinmie

DBaldock9 said:


> My original set of PT15 (from Fall of 2016), was the 4-hole model, and had a very Mid- and Treble-centric sound - so it had a different driver (or tuning), than the replacement sets that I ordered in 2017.
> The reason I ended up ordering replacements, was that the MMCX connector pulled out of the right earpiece.
> The first replacement set still had the 4-hole shell, but much better Bass.  I also noticed, after a small amount of usage, that the MMCX connector was getting a bit loose on the left earpiece.
> So, I ordered 2 more sets of PT15, at the now less-than-$10 price.
> ...



no difference in sound tuning overall between the newer 4 holes to the 1 hole? what seller did you buy the 1 hole version from? 

I'm also tempted to buy the red or black PT15. anyone has them yet?


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> Yabadabadoo here too!  The Willsound MK1 rev2 arrived today.



Waiting for your impressions on these, as they're the only pair I haven't bought.


----------



## DBaldock9

chinmie said:


> no difference in sound tuning overall between the newer 4 holes to the 1 hole? what seller did you buy the 1 hole version from?
> 
> I'm also tempted to buy the red or black PT15. anyone has them yet?



All four pairs of PT15 that I've ordered, came from AK Audio Store, on AliExprerss.


----------



## 40760

waynes world said:


> Is better than the Graphene (new):
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...e-Earth-Graphene-Custom-Unit/32839988234.html



This is the version I have. Though it looks really good, I really dislike the sound...


----------



## toear

palestofwhite said:


> This is the version I have. Though it looks really good, I really dislike the sound...


 I have this one incoming...


----------



## mbwilson111

toear said:


> I have this one incoming...



That is the "new" graphene (MX760).  The less expensive one.  I have that and I like it.  When it first arrived I started listening and 5 hours later I was still listening.  I don't dislike any of the buds that are in my list.

Keep an open mind... expect to like it and maybe you will


----------



## 40760 (May 4, 2018)

toear said:


> I have this one incoming...



YMMV! Try it first before you decide. There's something about the sound that I don't like... something very FM-ish...

Besides that, I must say it looks really beautiful with the clear and silver colour combination. I'm clearly a sucker for clear earbud shells and silver cables...


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 4, 2018)

deleted... wrong thread


----------



## toear

mbwilson111 said:


> That is the "new" graphene (MX760).  The less expensive one.  I have that and I like it.  When it first arrived I started listening and 5 hours later I was still listening.  I don't dislike any of the buds that are in my list.
> 
> Keep an open mind... expect to like it and maybe you will





palestofwhite said:


> YMMV! Try it first before you decide. There's something about the sound that I don't like... something very FM-ish...
> 
> Besides that, I must say it looks really beautiful with the clear and silver colour combination. I'm clearly a sucker for clear earbud shells and silver cables...



Thanks for the positivity all! My worry was that I ordered the 'wrong' graphene. I did order from nicehck (as well as the 'new' PT15... ) as well so it seems my selection reflects the current discussion that is going on... hearing the positives and negatives after ordering sometimes make the wait more difficult... 

Thanks again for supporting the habit... lol!


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 4, 2018)

toear said:


> Thanks for the positivity all! My worry was that I ordered the 'wrong' graphene. I did order from nicehck (as well as the 'new' PT15... ) as well so it seems my selection reflects the current discussion that is going on... hearing the positives and negatives after ordering sometimes make the wait more difficult...
> 
> Thanks again for supporting the habit... lol!



The "old" graphene  is higher in price.  Some people have both.

This is the old graphene (called that because it was the first one available.  It says new because at the time it was introduced it was new.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...High-End-Rare-Earth-Graphene/32821104494.html

The one now being called "new" is less expensive and I assume has a different driver than the other one.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...e-Earth-Graphene-Custom-Unit/32839988234.html

Ridiculously confusing.

BTW, when posting links from Aliexpress try to remember to remove all the stuff that comes after .html
I am not sure what all the rest of that long link does but I remember being told that we should not include it.


----------



## siderak

mbwilson111 said:


> RED!!!!!  My newest IEM and my newest bud   Almost as good as purple...
> 
> Very busy day... busy week... getting ready for my daughter's visit from the States next Wednesday.  So not much time with either yet... just enough to know they work and  that I like them.  I listened to one song with the Willsound MK1 rev2 and then attached it to my RED Cayin N3 where it has been burning in for a few hours now.  Hoping to listen to at least a couple of albums later tonight and a few over the weekend.


Congrats!
Fantastic it got delivered! That’s great. 
I’ve got one coming along with a mk3.
Nice to have to keep you company in anticipation of the big visit!


----------



## waynes world

palestofwhite said:


> YMMV! Try it first before you decide. There's something about the sound that I don't like... something very FM-ish...
> 
> Besides that, I must say it looks really beautiful with the clear and silver colour combination. I'm clearly a sucker for clear earbud shells and silver cables...



Hey, what's wrong with FM? 

But you are right about "YMMV" - I personally don't think there is anything wrong with the graphene($16 new) and I can happily listen to them.



toear said:


> Thanks for the positivity all! My worry was that I ordered the 'wrong' graphene. I did order from nicehck (as well as the 'new' PT15... ) as well so it seems my selection reflects the current discussion that is going on... hearing the positives and negatives after ordering sometimes make the wait more difficult...
> 
> Thanks again for supporting the habit... lol!



I personally "like" the ($16 new) ones and "love" the ($29 old) ones (with the proper fit - very important).

But, both versions seem divisive. So do not despair - there's still a good chance that you will like the ($16 new) ones!



mbwilson111 said:


> The "old" graphene  is higher in price.  Some people have both.
> 
> This is the old graphene (called that because it was the first one available.  It says new because at the time it was introduced it was new.
> 
> ...



We need to make that a sticky post!


----------



## toear

waynes world said:


> I personally "like" the ($16 new) ones and "love" the ($29 old) ones (with the proper fit - very important).



I want to 'love' all my earphones... lol!  

... still excited to get them!


----------



## HungryPanda

It's the package delivery that turns into audio pleasure


----------



## toear

mbwilson111 said:


> The "old" graphene  is higher in price.  Some people have both.
> 
> This is the old graphene (called that because it was the first one available.  It says new because at the time it was introduced it was new.
> 
> ...


Ok thx!  And I apologize for the extended link. It was  quoted from the previous post...


----------



## HungryPanda

Yes but the old graphene had plastic fronts, metal fronts


----------



## HungryPanda

Different shells


----------



## toear

Does anyone know the difference in sound between the plastic and metal fronts?


----------



## HungryPanda

I just know my metal graphics are great


----------



## seanc6441

toear said:


> Does anyone know the difference in sound between the plastic and metal fronts?


If the metal front has all the ports open I’d opt for that one, although it may be plastic behind the metal as some are. I strongly disliked my graphene (plastic) until I took off the cover and made three new holes in the middle to stop all the bass bloat. Worked well and now the sound is balanced.


----------



## snip3r77

waynes world said:


> To add further info, it is generally agreed upon that the Graphene (old):
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...High-End-Rare-Earth-Graphene/32821104494.html
> 
> Is better than the Graphene (new):
> ...



I recently received the PT15 and I have the Graphene ( new ).
Maybe the old Graphene is better than new Graphene as I feel PT15 is better for me.
Is there much difference between old Graphene and PT15 ?

I'm not looking at sidegrading


----------



## toear

seanc6441 said:


> If the metal front has all the ports open I’d opt for that one, although it may be plastic behind the metal as some are. I strongly disliked my graphene (plastic) until I took off the cover and made three new holes in the middle to stop all the bass bloat. Worked well and now the sound is balanced.


If you could, would you mind posting a pic? 

Thx!


----------



## RodRevenge

Just got the ABnormal Duotres a few days ago guys, this may be the best earbud i have ever heard for Metal, like some of you may remember (or not) i was super fan of the Seahf 64, well, this one is a step up from them, the sound signature is kinda the same V shaped but not that much, treble is less sharp but still detailed the sub bass is the thing that really shines, strong, present and really well controled you can almost FEEL the bass (the instrument) and does an amazing work at portraying precussions, i crave drums and it fills the spot on that.
The separation is great, it keeps up no problem even with the busier parts on Mars Volta´s work which can get pretty chaotic. This seems like the to go option for the Metal genre under 50 at least.


----------



## 40760

RodRevenge said:


> Just got the ABnormal Duotres a few days ago guys, this may be the best earbud i have ever heard for Metal, like some of you may remember (or not) i was super fan of the Seahf 64, well, this one is a step up from them, the sound signature is kinda the same V shaped but not that much, treble is less sharp but still detailed the sub bass is the thing that really shines, strong, present and really well controled you can almost FEEL the bass (the instrument) and does an amazing work at portraying precussions, i crave drums and it fills the spot on that.
> The separation is great, it keeps up no problem even with the busier parts on Mars Volta´s work which can get pretty chaotic. This seems like the to go option for the Metal genre under 50 at least.



Where can we purchase the Abnormal earbuds?


----------



## kurtextrem

So I just found another earbud today:
https://gizmodern.com/products/lose-yourself-in-music

Anyone feeling lucky? It looks kinda interesting... Apple earbud shape mixed with something else


----------



## 40760 (May 5, 2018)

Willsound MK2 has shipped out too... Still waiting for the MK3 that's on the way...


----------



## RodRevenge

palestofwhite said:


> Where can we purchase the Abnormal earbuds?


I got mine through FB, you can send a message to the ABnormal Sound page and they will send the invoice to your Paypal.


----------



## 40760

RodRevenge said:


> I got mine through FB, you can send a message to the ABnormal Sound page and they will send the invoice to your Paypal.



Thanks! They look really good...


----------



## jant71

Anyone try the P186 yet??


----------



## jogawag

jant71 said:


> Anyone try the P186 yet??


Is this earbuds "Edifier H186P"?


----------



## jant71

Yes they usually just shorten the name to be less confusing and call them H and P for non-mic(H) and mic(P) versions. Though not sure there is a non-mic 186 anyhow. Just one version with the mic it seems.


----------



## chinmie

jant71 said:


> Anyone try the P186 yet??



i always want to try the H186 because i love the shape, but hesitant because multiple reports of channel imbalance problems on my local forum


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> i always want to try the H186 because i love the shape, but hesitant because multiple reports of channel imbalance problems on my local forum


It’s got that MX985 aesthetic with is unique to say the least.


----------



## phower

DBaldock9 said:


> The reason I ended up ordering replacements, was that the MMCX connector pulled out of the right earpiece.
> .


I have applied a tiny,tiny amount of superglue between the plastic(red,blue) and the metal shell in order to avoid these kind of problems. I too have the 4 holes and single vent PT15s and they sound slightly different. The 4 holes seemy to have a open soundstage(?). 

****'s quality control is not that great. One of my PT15's right side MMCX socket is slightly big and the connector falls off from time to time.


----------



## chinmie

phower said:


> I have applied a tiny,tiny amount of superglue between the plastic(red,blue) and the metal shell in order to avoid these kind of problems. I too have the 4 holes and single vent PT15s and they sound slightly different. The 4 holes seemy to have a open soundstage(?).
> 
> ****'s quality control is not that great. One of my PT15's right side MMCX socket is slightly big and the connector falls off from time to time.



yes, I had the same problem with one of my PT15, i have to grind the plastic a little bit so that the mmcx jack can connect better


----------



## seanc6441 (May 5, 2018)

So I got the K’s Black Ling yesterday and I’ve been putting it through it’s paces along with my new Mojito and TO400s.

All vastly different tunings and interesting to say the least. I’ll take some pics and post something on them very soon.

The K’s bud is just beautiful and crafted amazingly with its full brass shell. The Mojito is quite special looking too. Love the colour scheme. While the TO400S is basic looking in comparison, I feel the cable is the most basic part while the buds themselves are very nice and professional looking with the black finish and clear Red/Blue marking.

The K’s earbud has some weird things going on sonically that I’m still trying to figure out if it’s genius or just odd lol. To say the sound is deep and impactful would be an understatement. The bass hits oh so hard with equal amount of depth and punch. The brass shell literally resonates with the bass harmonically making it feel much bigger, dare I say headphone-esque!  But that’s all I say for now...

Keep tuned I guess and enjoy the buds


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> The brass shell literally resonates with the bass harmonically making it feel much bigger, dare I say headphone-esque! But that’s all I say for now...



only heavy brass earbuds will give that kind of vibration. some plastic one could get close or even gives out bigger quantity of bass, but the way it vibrate your ears, they could never replicate


----------



## seanc6441 (May 5, 2018)

chinmie said:


> only heavy brass earbuds will give that kind of vibration. some plastic one could get close or even gives out bigger quantity of bass, but the way it vibrate your ears, they could never replicate


Ok I agree for sure, but is it just the tuning of the Black Ling or does the metal has an ill effect also reflecting some sound waves? Because I was having some weird sound effect using donut foam but it completely vanished with full foams, although it could just be the tuning of this earbud. It’s for sure NOT a dark sounding bud despite the deep emphasised low end, on first listen it was very dark and warm but literally after one hour the sound changed to deep low end and a sweeter slightly brighter upper tilt.

But yes, I know what you mean now! Amazing really how such a small driver can be effected by shell matierial, it definitely has this solid vibration/resonance with the sound especially the lower frequencies. Loving that aspect of this bud.


----------



## snip3r77

palestofwhite said:


> Willsound MK2 has shipped out too... Still waiting for the MK3 that's on the way...


What's the difference between v2 and v3?


----------



## 40760

snip3r77 said:


> What's the difference between v2 and v3?



I'll find out once I receive them... but I suspect their difference should be minor as compared to MK1...


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Ok I agree for sure, but is it just the tuning of the Black Ling or does the metal has an ill effect also reflecting some sound waves? Because I was having some weird sound effect using donut foam but it completely vanished with full foams, although it could just be the tuning of this earbud. It’s for sure NOT a dark sounding bud despite the deep emphasised low end, on first listen it was very dark and warm but literally after one hour the sound changed to deep low end and a sweeter slightly brighter upper tilt.
> 
> But yes, I know what you mean now! Amazing really how such a small driver can be effected by shell matierial, it definitely has this solid vibration/resonance with the sound especially the lower frequencies. Loving that aspect of this bud.



i don't know about reflecting soundwave, but i don't like the Liebesleid with donuts.. it just sounds weird. it might be the same case as the black ling, that they both just suits full foam better.

it also the same with iems. the more the metal ones, and the more heft they have, it would give a more solid vibration. earbuds wise, the Liebesleid, Poseidon, and White Ling (those that i have personally tried) have similar vibration feel


----------



## seanc6441 (May 5, 2018)

chinmie said:


> i don't know about reflecting soundwave, but i don't like the Liebesleid with donuts.. it just sounds weird. it might be the same case as the black ling, that they both just suits full foam better.
> 
> it also the same with iems. the more the metal ones, and the more heft they have, it would give a more solid vibration. earbuds wise, the Liebesleid, Poseidon, and White Ling (those that i have personally tried) have similar vibration feel


I could almost swear its the shell because even thin monk or aliexpress foam remove any ‘reflections’ that I’m hearing. It’s too bad because the soundstage and presentation are perfectly placed in donuts and a little too closed in for me with full foams so I’m trying to work something out with thin foams and a donut over it, or similar.

Have you heard any wood shell earbuds? Does wood have any effect you have noticed?


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> I could almost swear its the shell because even thin monk or aliexpress foam remove any ‘reflections’. It’s too bad because the soundstage and presentation are perfectly placed in donuts and a little too closed in for me with full foams so I’m trying to work something out with thin foams and a donut over it, or similar.
> 
> Have you heard any wood shell earbuds? Does wood have any effect you have noticed?



It's the opposite for me. donuts will give a more close-back headphones soundstage, while full foams (thin or thick) will give a more open-back staging. but i do always wear my earbuds not flushed sticking to the earholes, but sitting more on the antitragus as that give me the most bass vibration.

i have the Yinman 500 and have also heard the 600 (as well as some DIY wood earbuds). The wood shell have a more similar feel to the plastic ones, but have a more warm tubey feel to them. might be the shell, but might be the driver too


----------



## seanc6441

yeah unless we can hear the same driver in different matierial shells it’s hard to come to any conclusions...

The shell is heavy but luckily the cable is light and the shape is fairly ergonomic in the ear so it’s comfortable for me. Although the 3.5 jack is comically large... I don’t know what they were thinking to be honest.


----------



## capnjack (May 6, 2018)

I’ve come to the conclusion that I definitely prefer the Willsound mk.1rev.2 over all of my iems (including b400s)



The kick drum truly kicks you on the hi-res copy I got!


----------



## snip3r77

capnjack said:


> I’ve come to the conclusion that I definitely prefer the Willsound mk.1rev.2 over all of my iems (including b400s)



is it still on sale at Ali?


----------



## capnjack

snip3r77 said:


> is it still on sale at Ali?


I got mine from Rholupat


----------



## SweetEars

Stewardess2 said:


> Hi guys, I just received EMX500S (not 500), Yincrow X6, T-music Version2 from aliexpress and did a first impression comparison.
> I don't know if these still get any love around here, but felt like a good opportunity to review the T-music as there seemed to be virtually no reviews out there.
> 
> The X6 was too laid back for my tastes, and I felt it had a mid-bass to low-mids hump. Extension was also not good. It sounded pretty balanced without foams, but still lacked the extension.
> ...




EMX500s should sound more better and clear after burn in...


----------



## 40760 (May 6, 2018)

SweetEars said:


> EMX500s should sound more better and clear after burn in...



Maybe you should also try some Willsound...


----------



## 40760 (May 6, 2018)

capnjack said:


> I’ve come to the conclusion that I definitely prefer the Willsound mk.1rev.2 over all of my iems (including b400s)



That's quite a big claim and sounds really promising. How would you compare the MK1 to maybe the MK2 or 3 (if you've heard them)?


----------



## snip3r77

SweetEars said:


> EMX500s should sound more better and clear after burn in...


Wilsound or emx500s? 

Coming from pt1 and graphene


----------



## ShabtabQ

palestofwhite said:


> That's quite a big claim and sounds really promising. How would you compare the MK1 to maybe the MK2 or 3 (if you've heard them)?


+1


----------



## DBaldock9

phower said:


> I have applied a tiny,tiny amount of superglue between the plastic(red,blue) and the metal shell in order to avoid these kind of problems. I too have the 4 holes and single vent PT15s and they sound slightly different. The 4 holes seemy to have a open soundstage(?).
> 
> ****'s quality control is not that great. One of my PT15's right side MMCX socket is slightly big and the connector falls off from time to time.



I suspect that **** buys the small, smooth-sided MMCX connectors because they're small & cheap - and then they press-fit them into the plastic bushings. It would probably add significantly to the price  if they did a fit check on every one of them - and since the MMCX plugs also vary a bit in size, then a jack that passes at one test station, might fail at another one.


----------



## waynes world

snip3r77 said:


> Wilsound or emx500s?
> 
> Coming from pt1 and graphene



I haven't heard either, but my guess is that the willsound will blow the socks off of the emx500s 

(If anyone thinks that's too strong, I will edit)


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> I haven't heard either, but my guess is that the willsound will blow the socks off of the emx500s
> 
> (If anyone thinks that's too strong, I will edit)



I have not heard the emx500 but my new Willsound MK1 rev2 is blowing the socks off me!

Costs a lot more than the 500 though.


----------



## chinmie

snip3r77 said:


> Wilsound or emx500s?
> 
> Coming from pt1 and graphene



Willsound, no question about it


----------



## HungryPanda

Willsound for the win


----------



## waynes world

Btw, I am a big fan of my DIY mx500 earbuds (before the left driver started rattling). How do they compare to the emx500s?


----------



## golov17 (May 6, 2018)

waynes world said:


> Btw, I am a big fan of my DIY mx500 earbuds (before the left driver started rattling). How do they compare to the emx500s?


Brighter than mx
Double foams with emx500 from banned seller


----------



## golov17

Recable Panasonic hj329, some pics


----------



## seanc6441

golov17 said:


> Recable Panasonic hj329, some pics


Wow didn’t know this design was seen outside the Rose Tech earbuds. How does that dual driver sound, Is it comparable to Rose earbuds?


----------



## golov17

seanc6441 said:


> Wow didn’t know this design was seen outside the Rose Tech earbuds. How does that dual driver sound, Is it comparable to Rose earbuds?


Other drivers - other sounds


----------



## capnjack

palestofwhite said:


> That's quite a big claim and sounds really promising. How would you compare the MK1 to maybe the MK2 or 3 (if you've heard them)?


I’m sorry but I can’t answer that yet as I’m waiting for the mk.2 to be delivered and don’t have the mk.3


----------



## ctaxxxx

Wow. Got the thin foams recommended to me from Aliexpress. They sound closer to the newer Monk+ foams, rather than the ones of old, but they tear easily when putting them on and left some ink stains on my fingers... At least it was only around a dollar.


----------



## doggiemom

ctaxxxx said:


> Wow. Got the thin foams recommended to me from Aliexpress. They sound closer to the newer Monk+ foams, rather than the ones of old, but they tear easily when putting them on and left some ink stains on my fingers... At least it was only around a dollar.


The insides of your ears are going to be stained black.


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> Wow didn’t know this design was seen outside the Rose Tech earbuds. How does that dual driver sound, Is it comparable to Rose earbuds?



HJ329 predates Mojito for many years - in fact, Mojito uses HJ329's back housing design as their own. Also, Panasonic is the company that pioneered dual dynamic driver design (in their early HV series) in the earbuds world all the way back in the 80s. HJ329 is the last of Panasonic's dual driver and not sold as a retail model but only as a stock earbuds for their last generation of good CD and mp3 player.


----------



## ClieOS

jant71 said:


> Anyone try the P186 yet??



Like its elder brother the H185, the H186P has a V-shaped sound. Actually I prefer the H185 slightly more.


----------



## doggiemom

Ordered a couple of Wilsounds (MK1 Rev 2 and MK#) from Rholupat, and took a chance on the Audio Varna as a hitch hiker as it didn't seem to increase the shipping cost.  The wooden case which is straw-lined on the inside is lovely.  The cable looks awesome. unfortunately, there seems to be something loose on the right side...... when I pull gently on the cable, there is a noticeable rattle.    Any ideas on how to fix?  I didn't contact Rholuat (I've purchased through them several times and they've always been great), as the cost of the buds doesn't really justify the cost of return shipping to Indonesia.


----------



## chinmie

ctaxxxx said:


> Wow. Got the thin foams recommended to me from Aliexpress. They sound closer to the newer Monk+ foams, rather than the ones of old, but they tear easily when putting them on and left some ink stains on my fingers... At least it was only around a dollar.



haven't tried the new VE foams, but compared to the old VEs, the black thin foams are more durable and stretch-ier, and didn't notice staining (the old VEs stains).

is this the store? :
100 Pcs Black Sponge Earbud Headphone Cap Ear Pads Cover Replacement http://s.aliexpress.com/mI7vMvA7?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard


----------



## jogawag (May 7, 2018)

This is a mini & mini review of Willsound MK2 rev2(=new batch).

Willsound MK2 rev2 is 32 ohm and with MX500 type white housing, braided black cable and 3.5mm plug.
I am using this with VE thin foams.

It is an all-rounder regardless of genre, feeling like EMX500 upward compatible earbuds.
There is a core in the bass, and its volume is over EMX500.
Mid-treble sound has bright and good separation.
Noteworthy is the mid vocal sound which I feel fresh.
Sound stage is not huge but still wide enough.

However, since this price is $32 (and shipping fee), I will not positively recommend to those who are enough satisfied with EMX500.


----------



## ctaxxxx (May 6, 2018)

chinmie said:


> haven't tried the new VE foams, but compared to the old VEs, the black thin foams are more durable and stretch-ier, and didn't notice staining (the old VEs stains).
> 
> is this the store? :
> 100 Pcs Black Sponge Earbud Headphone Cap Ear Pads Cover Replacement http://s.aliexpress.com/mI7vMvA7?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard



Yeah those. Mine don't seem to stretch very far. It barely fit over the Diomnes' back ports before I ripped it suddenly. Maybe something with the hole size, since they vary a lot in placement. Good thing they gave a lot.

I can see myself using these at work though when someone asks to try my earbuds, since the braided cable tends to bring attention to itself lol.

It actually fits very snug on the Liebesleid's smaller housing. Better than the VE or Hiegi. Still tore one trying to put it on though...

*Edit: *I just tore 3 more trying to put a non-torn one on... I give up... I think it's because the hole is too small.


----------



## snip3r77

jogawag said:


> This is a mini & mini review of Willsounds MK2 rev2(=new batch).
> 
> Willsounds MK2 rev2 is 32 ohm and with MX500 type white housing, braided black cable and 3.5mm plug.
> I am using this with VE thin foams.
> ...



Thank you.

need more reviews for affirmation~


----------



## ShabtabQ

Which willsound is the best, and how is it compared to diy pk2?


----------



## waynes world

snip3r77 said:


> Thank you.
> 
> need more reviews for affirmation~



Chimnie says get them. No more affirmation required. Get them!


----------



## capnjack

ShabtabQ said:


> Which willsound is the best, and how is it compared to diy pk2?


At the moment I only have the mk.1 rev.2, but I can definitely say that it is like the diy pk.2’s big brother. You get more of everything imho! 
The soundstage opens up and everything is just there in larger amounts!


----------



## snip3r77

waynes world said:


> Chimnie says get them. No more affirmation required. Get them!



I don't think it's available at Ali right?


----------



## Niqeres

Hi has anyone over here ever opened their emx500 and taken pictures of its internals before? I'm planning to hunt for their drivers on taobao and copy its tuning.


----------



## capnjack

snip3r77 said:


> I don't think it's available at Ali right?


I don’t know about Ali, got mine from Rholupat (my mk.2 is in transit at the moment)


----------



## snip3r77

capnjack said:


> I don’t know about Ali, got mine from Rholupat (my mk.2 is in transit at the moment)



There's a MK3 also


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Chimnie says get them. No more affirmation required. Get them!



I don't trust that guy


----------



## jrazmar

@chinmie Finally got the Liebesleid. OMG this thing is a beauty. I haven't put it on my ears yet as I am curious if the sound changes after burn-in. It says on the paper that 100h is recommended. Is it worth to put it on the oven first or the sound is as good as it gets out of the box?


----------



## chinmie

jrazmar said:


> @chinmie Finally got the Liebesleid. OMG this thing is a beauty. I haven't put it on my ears yet as I am curious if the sound changes after burn-in. It says on the paper that 100h is recommended. Is it worth to put it on the oven first or the sound is as good as it gets out of the box?



i didn't do special burn in period for it because i love them from ootb, so i just listen to them regularly. i don't think it would change much, at least i didn't notice any. i tried three liebesleid (mine and friend's ) one of them balanced, all of them have a consistent sound.


----------



## jrazmar

Great then! Thanks...now off to my listening session.


----------



## 40760

Still eagerly anticipating delivery for my Willsound. Should be receiving the MK3 anytime soon and MK2 shortly after. After which I'll have to decide if I should get the MK1 as well...


----------



## Chessblitzer2017

How come every time I look at this thread and hope too see a list of someone's top listened to iems I end up getting quite disappointed seeing some stupid posts one after another. Does this anger/irritate anyone else ? Ugh.


----------



## 40760

Chessblitzer2017 said:


> How come every time I look at this thread and hope too see a list of someone's top listened to iems I end up getting quite disappointed seeing some stupid posts one after another. Does this anger/irritate anyone else ? Ugh.



We're very sorry to offend you. Perhaps you can set things right for us? Lead by example?


----------



## handwander

Chessblitzer2017 said:


> How come every time I look at this thread and hope too see a list of someone's top listened to iems I end up getting quite disappointed seeing some stupid posts one after another. Does this anger/irritate anyone else ? Ugh.


If you're looking for lists of IEMs, you might want to look in threads besides "EARBUDS Round-Up"


----------



## Chessblitzer2017 (May 7, 2018)

1. Periodic Audio Be(sent back, too boomy, boxy high bass, boring for 300 bucks)
2. Granvela g10 bass edition(more exciting vocals then the Be too be honest....)
3. Apple earbuds(honestly they are "ok", are quite comfortable compared too sticking iems in your ear, issue is they get loose and lose seal in 2 seconds , get the job done pretty dang good but no bass is the gripe, if had some decent bass.. shieeeet)

I've decided to go Big and start saving up for an in good condition Xelento.


----------



## acap13 (May 7, 2018)

Chessblitzer2017 said:


> 1. Periodic Audio Be(sent back, too boomy, boxy high bass, boring for 300 bucks)
> 2. Granvela g10 bass edition(more exciting vocals then the Be too be honest....)
> 3. Apple earbuds(honestly they are "ok", are quite comfortable compared too sticking iems in your ear, issue is they get loose and lose seal in 2 seconds , get the job done pretty dang good but no bass is the gripe, if had some decent bass.. shieeeet)
> 
> I've decided to go Big and start saving up for an in good condition Xelento.



I'm sorry to barge in out of nowhere but you should have taken a serious note on your previous post. It would be helpful to prevent your future dissapointment.
Well as long as you are talking about 'real' earbud, then I believe it will be just fine


----------



## seanc6441

@ctaxxxx try stretching them gently with your fingers first, they become much more spongy after the first few stretches and don’t rip as easily. If you attempt to stretch them over a large earbud when fresh may tear I’ve had that happen to me too.


----------



## handwander (May 7, 2018)

Anyone have any idea about these? I just like the shell
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...ass-Earbuds-DJ-Earbuds-Heavy/32826456892.html

And what does the frequent use of "DIY" mean for earbuds? Doesn't seem to be anything "do it yourself" about the items that use it lol.


----------



## Chessblitzer2017

^^^^ For some reason I was thinking something dirty minded and hoping for something dirty ... ended up disappointed :/ @ sean


----------



## toear

Hi all

I've been mulling over the He 150pro... I know there are a lot of suggesting in this range but I am shying away from ex500 style shells because of fit... Any others I should consider before pulling the trigger? I also looked at the yinman 150s which are a bit more expensive. I also wanted the higher impedance because I'm running them out of my z2/f1 combo....

Right now I have the faael 64s and they get pretty loud pretty quick which is ok but there is a bit of a channel imbalance at lower levels...

I've looks at the aoede and some other metal style housings but they are a ~32ohms.

Already have the **** pt15 on the way ...  

Thx!


----------



## Saoshyant

@handwander I have an earbud that uses that shell, but no clue if it’s the same.  Cost around 25USD a couple years ago, and will give it a listen for sound sig later.


----------



## handwander

Saoshyant said:


> @handwander I have an earbud that uses that shell, but no clue if it’s the same.  Cost around 25USD a couple years ago, and will give it a listen for sound sig later.


Cool, thanks. 


toear said:


> Hi all
> 
> I've been mulling over the He 150pro... I know there are a lot of suggesting in this range but I am shying away from ex500 style shells because of fit... Any others I should consider before pulling the trigger? I also looked at the yinman 150s which are a bit more expensive. I also wanted the higher impedance because I'm running them out of my z2/f1 combo....


No idea about the Yinmans, but did you find the MX500 style shell too small or too big? I have the **** Tank buds which look to be a similar shape as the Yinman 150s, and found them a bit big. Ordered a misc. mx500 bud last week to test the fit on those instead.


----------



## 40760 (May 7, 2018)

handwander said:


> And what does the frequent use of "DIY" mean for earbuds? Doesn't seem to be anything "do it yourself" about the items that use it lol.



I think the "DIY" term is coined differently by the Chinese. They meant it as a "project-type" product or rather "hand-made" earbuds, but somehow the translation got lost somewhere. Hence the term "DIY", but actually they meant that they "developed it by themselves", and not an actual original branded product as per se.


----------



## handwander

palestofwhite said:


> I think the "DIY" term is coined differently by the Chinese. They meant it as a "project-type" product or rather "hand-made" earbuds, but somehow the translation got lost somewhere, hence the term "DIY" but actually they meant that they "developed it by themselves".


Interesting. Wouldn't have guessed!


----------



## noknok23

toear said:


> Hi all
> 
> I've been mulling over the He 150pro...
> 
> Thx!


I'm a big fan of the HE150PRO, great tuning and comfort, built. Can't go wrong with these imo.


----------



## 40760

handwander said:


> Interesting. Wouldn't have guessed!



I was puzzled by their naming convention at first, but as an Asian Chinese myself, I did some "translation" to actually try and make some sense of it.

I guess that's the disadvantage of not having English as one of your main languages...


----------



## chinmie

handwander said:


> Anyone have any idea about these? I just like the shell
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...ass-Earbuds-DJ-Earbuds-Heavy/32826456892.html
> 
> And what does the frequent use of "DIY" mean for earbuds? Doesn't seem to be anything "do it yourself" about the items that use it lol.



that is a really interesting looks, i really like it.. anyone had tried them?


----------



## handwander

chinmie said:


> that is a really interesting looks, i really like it.. anyone had tried them?


Similar looking item, though with the 'shozy' style shell - 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...ass-Earbuds-DJ-Earbuds-Heavy/32847567639.html


----------



## j4100

toear said:


> Hi all
> 
> I've been mulling over the He 150pro... I know there are a lot of suggesting in this range but I am shying away from ex500 style shells because of fit... Any others I should consider before pulling the trigger? I also looked at the yinman 150s which are a bit more expensive. I also wanted the higher impedance because I'm running them out of my z2/f1 combo....
> 
> ...



If by fit, you mean too large, then the Toneking ROS1 might suit you, as they are the smallest earbuds I have and sound pretty good as well.


----------



## toear

Hi All

Thanks for your suggestions!

The MX500 style shell is a tad big for long-term comfort. I guess I have smaller ears... I ended up filing/reshaping my Faael 64s to get a shape that was comfortable. I would definitely prefer to have the shell smaller and put more foams to get the right fit... I know this affects tuning but I prefer to fiddle with the foams than to have a constant earache while trying to enjoy music... 

So... to narrow down my requirements it would have to 'try' to provide the best quality SQ in the range (I prefer to upgrade vs sidegrade), fit small, and have a higher impedance...

Considerations:
1) HE150
2) Yinman150 (maybe big?)
3) ROS1 (only 16 ohm)
4)...?

I am open to higher impedances as well...

Thanks!


----------



## handwander

j4100 said:


> If by fit, you mean too large, then the Toneking ROS1 might suit you, as they are the smallest earbuds I have and sound pretty good as well.


Are these smaller than other Toneking models or are they all pretty uniform? The Tomahawk, the TO### line, etc?


----------



## j4100

handwander said:


> Are these smaller than other Toneking models or are they all pretty uniform? The Tomahawk, the TO### line, etc?



I don't have any other Toneking models, but the 14.6mm diameter is pretty small when you consider the 16.9mm shell for most earbuds. The Shozy BK was 16.1mm and the PT15 was 16.3mm.


----------



## handwander

j4100 said:


> I don't have any other Toneking models, but the 14.6mm diameter is pretty small when you consider the 16.9mm shell for most earbuds. The Shozy BK was 16.1mm and the PT15 was 16.3mm.


I see. I wish there were some better size comparisons available though. Uncertainty about size / fit is what prevents me from ordering things like the nicehck EBX or the Svara L.


----------



## 40760 (May 7, 2018)

handwander said:


> I see. I wish there were some better size comparisons available though. Uncertainty about size / fit is what prevents me from ordering things like the nicehck EBX or the Svara L.



You might want to try a pair of VE Monk Lite (120ohm) or VE Zen Lite (300ohm)? They are using the same shell design as the Qian39 at 16.2mm.

Definitely more comfortable for people with smaller ears as compared to the typical MX500 shells at 16.8mm.


----------



## waynes world

Chessblitzer2017 said:


> How come every time I look at this thread and hope too see a list of someone's top listened to iems I end up getting quite disappointed seeing some stupid posts one after another. Does this anger/irritate anyone else ? Ugh.





Chessblitzer2017 said:


> ^^^^ For some reason I was thinking something dirty minded and hoping for something dirty ... ended up disappointed :/ @ sean



Are you angered by your own post? Colour me confused lol.


----------



## groucho69

Chessblitzer2017 said:


> How come every time I look at this thread and hope too see a list of someone's top listened to iems I end up getting quite disappointed seeing some stupid posts one after another. Does this anger/irritate anyone else ? Ugh.



You know the phrase "it's not you, it's me?" Well it's not us, it's you. What you are looking for is not the oeuvre of this thread.


----------



## siderak

jogawag said:


> This is a mini & mini review of Willsounds MK2 rev2(=new batch).
> 
> Willsounds MK2 rev2 is 32 ohm and with MX500 type white housing, braided black cable and 3.5mm plug.
> I am using this with VE thin foams.
> ...


I think once you try the mk2 rev2, you will no longer be satisfied with the EMX500...


----------



## siderak

Chessblitzer2017 said:


> How come every time I look at this thread and hope too see a list of someone's top listened to iems I end up getting quite disappointed seeing some stupid posts one after another. Does this anger/irritate anyone else ? Ugh.


Nope.


----------



## subwoof3r

siderak said:


> I think once you try the mk2 rev2, you will no longer be satisfied with the EMX500...


Correct  (but not only MK2, all WIllsound products I would say, haha)

I'm still hesitating to buy MK3 (the new grid design interests me, maybe it will be as comfortable as MK1). But on a other side, I really think it should sound the same as MK2, not sure thought. A mix between MK1 and MK2 should be really nice.


----------



## Narayan23

ShabtabQ said:


> Which willsound is the best, and how is it compared to diy pk2?



I think many would agree the Mbwillsound MK 111...

I´m sorry ShabtabQ, I´m facetious by nature and can´t help myself sometimes, I had to mess around using the name of one of our esteemed colleagues. I´m eagerly reading everything I can on the Willsounds myself but have yet to buy a ticket for the hype train.


----------



## siderak

subwoof3r said:


> Correct  (but not only MK2, all WIllsound products I would say, haha)
> 
> I'm still hesitating to buy MK3 (the new grid design interests me, maybe it will be as comfortable as MK1). But on a other side, I really think it should sound the same as MK2, not sure thought. A mix between MK1 and MK2 should be really nice.



1+2=3


----------



## seanc6441 (May 7, 2018)

@ShabtabQ I love the pk2 for the price but it doesn’t do sub bass so keep that in mind. It’s more of a mid bass - treble oriented bud.

I’m guessing the mk2 is more capable at low end extension judging by Chinmies comments.


----------



## ShabtabQ

seanc6441 said:


> @ShabtabQ I love the pk2 for the price but it doesn’t do sub bass so keep that in mind. It’s more of a mid bass - treble oriented bud.
> 
> I’m guessing the mk2 is more capable at low end extension judging by Chinmies comments.


There won't be much of a different in price in purchasing any of them, what should I consider, my **** PT15 and TinAudio T2 still on it's way, the wait is getting difficult day by day.


----------



## Saoshyant

@handwander Giving the DIY I own a try, very bass light, ok vocals but honestly a slight tin can aspect to the sound, and the treble strikes me as a little on the light side.  For my tastes, it doesn't suit at all.  Again, no clue if this is the same earbud as the one you linked, but it's not a common shell.


----------



## subwoof3r

seanc6441 said:


> I love the pk2 for the price but it doesn’t do sub bass so keep that in mind. It’s more of a mid bass - treble oriented bud.


Oh btw, forgot to tell you but I ordered NiceHCK DIY PK2 (cable 3) that you recommended  should receive my pair in the next days. I will share my impressions (as soon as properly burned) compared to Willsound MK1 and MK2.
Finally I much more enjoy earburds like WIllsounds without sub-bass than the more "full sounding" EMX500S.


----------



## seanc6441 (May 7, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> Oh btw, forgot to tell you but I ordered NiceHCK DIY PK2 (cable 3) that you recommended  should receive my pair in the next days. I will share my impressions (as soon as properly burned) compared to Willsound MK1 and MK2.
> Finally I much more enjoy earburds like WIllsounds without sub-bass than the more "full sounding" EMX500S.


In the PK shells you have 3 circular layers of vents. I found that using a foam of medium-full thickness and using the multi hole method to unobstruct all of the centre layer (like with donut foams) then the middle layer is mostly covered by foam and the outer layer of 50% blocked, this way you balance out the sound as much as possible and the thicker the foam the more depth but less ‘airy’ sounding... until you add the multi holes then it becomes more airy like default.


I used the VE thick donuts like shown here, as you can see it has the middle open but also the other section is ‘vented’ which gives you the full sound of the thick donut but also lets 90% of the treble through. Mids are slightly deeper and smoother than stock foams whilst retaining clarity from the large openings.



Alternatively you can do something fancy like this which also sounds great, even more full but slightly more mid forward. I’d probably opt for this in the long run as the vocals sound fuller and sweeter.

 

In stock these buds do sound tinny as mentioned above, but that’s what gives them more clarity than all the other budget buds I tried. It’s finding the foams to make that tinny sound into a smoother fuller signature without sacrificing the clarity is the trick. That’s when they become really good budget earbuds but I’d still only recommend them for vocal and acoustic stuff and no heavy music like EDM or Metal.


----------



## handwander

Just saw the banned seller discussion in the IEM thread. Had no idea y****o was banned, so I'll stop talking about the Tank model. Too bad, it's good I think lol. 


palestofwhite said:


> You might want to try a pair of VE Monk Lite (120ohm) or VE Zen Lite (300ohm)? They are using the same shell design as the Qian39 at 16.2mm.
> Definitely more comfortable for people with smaller ears as compared to the typical MX500 shells at 16.8mm.


Good to know, thanks. I've been eyeing the Zen Lite, but not sure about 300ohm, and unsure about spending that much if I don't have a shell for comparison sizes. Will keep it in mind as something smaller though. Though at that price, I'd prefer to try the EBX. 

Penon BS1, Svara L, and NiceHCK EBX are the sizes I'm most curious about, since they are in a price range I don't really want to enter without an idea as to how they'll fit.


----------



## HungryPanda

Her is EBX and Svara L next to a monk shell


----------



## handwander

HungryPanda said:


> Her is EBX and Svara L next to a monk shell


My hero. Are the actual "earpiece" diameters the same though? Difficult to tell in that photo. IIRC the EBX earpiece / grill part is a bit thicker / deeper, but unsure about the diameter compared to the others.


----------



## HungryPanda

the monk+ is the least comfortable to me and is just bigger in width than the EBX or Svara L


----------



## toear

I found it is not just the diameter but the thickness is the bud (how far the diameter extends back towards the rear of the shell) that makes the fit uncomfortable. With the emx500 shell it is the shape that pushed against the outer part of my ear where the earbuds rest... This is why I was looking at buds like the pt15 and he 150 that taper of quickly, more like the straight slope of a pyramid.


----------



## handwander (May 7, 2018)

toear said:


> I found it is not just the diameter but the thickness is the bud (how far the diameter extends back towards the rear of the shell) that makes the fit uncomfortable. With the emx500 shell it is the shape that pushed against the outer part of my ear where the earbuds rest... This is why I was looking at buds like the pt15 and he 150 that taper of quickly, more like the straight slope of a pyramid.


Yeah in that sense the Svara may be a bit more comfortable. The EBX looks rather thick.

I guess there are only so many circular grill housing shapes you can make, but the lack of diversity in the earbud design space and willingness to just settle on the mx500 is interesting when you compare it to how many new IEM shells are released monthly.

I wonder how well it would work if you took a comfortable IEM shell (let's say one of the Shure SE series designs) and tried to turn it into a more earbud type design. For example, take the bottom picture shell, don't create a large opening with a nozzle, but instead flatten / round off that section and perforate it so that is earbud grill part. I suppose the driver / speaker size that buds typically use would be an issue here, but doesn't seem insurmountable. 






Perhaps this is a terrible idea. I blame overexposure to mx500 shells.


----------



## toear

handwander said:


> I wonder how well it would work if you took a comfortable IEM shell (let's say one of the Shure SE series designs) and tried to turn it into a more earbud type design.



I'm guessing that's what the Piano Forte is doing?


----------



## snip3r77

toear said:


> I found it is not just the diameter but the thickness is the bud (how far the diameter extends back towards the rear of the shell) that makes the fit uncomfortable. With the emx500 shell it is the shape that pushed against the outer part of my ear where the earbuds rest... This is why I was looking at buds like the pt15 and he 150 that taper of quickly, more like the straight slope of a pyramid.


Same

Based on specs will we be able to know if it has smaller diameter?


----------



## SweetEars

palestofwhite said:


> Maybe you should also try some Willsound...


which version of willsound?


----------



## SweetEars

snip3r77 said:


> Wilsound or emx500s?
> 
> Coming from pt1 and graphene


i am not sure of willsound  i  dont have them . the clear shell graphene ( updated ones) i have them  and the EMXs 500 sound is in between the clear grapahene and the older EMX 500 

but EMX500s before and after burn in has a notcieable difference ( also confirmed here by another user) .. 

before burn in - vocals mids lack energy, generally dark sounding or bloated bass lacks  some resolution.. soundstage too wide
after burn in -  vocals come forward, layering is more pronounced, treble energy and sub bass .. soundstage becomes slighly narrower but right


----------



## jogawag (May 9, 2018)

I do not have Willsound MK3.
Below is the content having been written about MK3 in the earbuds thread of my country.
-----
Willsound MK3 has arrived.
MK3 is also upward compatible with EMX500.
MK3 has slightly warmer sound than MK2, so not geting tired even if listening for a long time.
And originally MK2 is better separation of sound, but MK3's balance of  middle - treble was polished, MK3 further has improved the prospect of the sound.
However because MK3 became to have better sound balance, it is felt that it became to sound rather somewhat plain as well instead.


----------



## SweetEars

that $1 foams u are talking about , it gave a new sound sig to my clear graphene


----------



## 40760 (May 7, 2018)

SweetEars said:


> that $1 foams u are talking about , it gave a new sound sig to my clear graphene



The $1 foams are great but the rate of defects for those are really high. My pack of 100pcs had about more than 30pcs that are unusable and had to order an additional pack.
Otherwise, once you get them to fit (without tearing), they are perhaps one of my favourite foams (besides Hiegi Donuts).

The same seller also has white foams but those are denser but their QC is better (out of 100pcs only 4pcs are defective). After some testing, I still prefer the black to the whites ones.
I've also bought a single hole puncher from AE and will attempt to convert them into donuts. 

Will update you on the sound of the MK2 and 3 once I receive them, though I think it's going to take awhile for both to arrive...


----------



## chaiyuta

handwander said:


> I guess there are only so many circular grill housing shapes you can make, but the lack of diversity in the earbud design space and willingness to just settle on the mx500 is interesting when you compare it to how many new IEM shells are released monthly.



Back to 90's, there were many eabuds design than nowadays. I wish AIWA, Audio-Technica and SONY consider making new brass tube earbuds~~


----------



## handwander

chaiyuta said:


> Back to 90's, there were many eabuds design than nowadays. I wish AIWA, Audio-Technica and SONY consider making new brass tube earbuds~~


Was there anything mid-range from these makers that would still hold up today? I know some 'legend' earbuds that people still say they like but are pretty pricey - mdr-e282 / e-484, aiwa hp-v series, etc.


----------



## 40760

handwander said:


> Was there anything mid-range from these makers that would still hold up today? I know some 'legend' earbuds that people still say they like but are pretty pricey - mdr-e282 / e-484, aiwa hp-v series, etc.



Sony MDR-E888


----------



## chaiyuta

handwander said:


> Was there anything mid-range from these makers that would still hold up today? I know some 'legend' earbuds that people still say they like but are pretty pricey - mdr-e282 / e-484, aiwa hp-v series, etc.



Audio-Technica : ATH-C999 (C series isn't sold in Japan), ATH-CM707, ATH-EC707 (I heard some said CM700 is better than CM707)
AIWA : If I remember correct, last year it was announced AIWA resurrection. Though, no news about earbuds product yet~ You might contact AIWA admin asking about earbuds info~~
SONY : I don't see any mid-range or above SONY earbuds nowadays.


----------



## 40760

chaiyuta said:


> Audio-Technica : ATH-C999 (C series isn't sold in Japan), ATH-CM707, ATH-EC707 (I heard some said CM700 is better than CM707)
> AIWA : If I remember correct, last year it was announced AIWA resurrection. Though, no news about earbuds product yet~ You might contact AIWA admin asking about earbuds info~~
> SONY : I don't see any mid-range or above SONY earbuds nowadays.



Sennheiser: MX 375


----------



## ClieOS

chaiyuta said:


> Audio-Technica : ATH-C999 (C series isn't sold in Japan), ATH-CM707, ATH-EC707 (I heard some said CM700 is better than CM707)
> AIWA : If I remember correct, last year it was announced AIWA resurrection. Though, no news about earbuds product yet~ You might contact AIWA admin asking about earbuds info~~
> SONY : I don't see any mid-range or above SONY earbuds nowadays.



Don't buy ATH-CM707 (and probably EC707), it is just not worth the money. C999 is even worst, all style and no substance.

On the other news - AIWA America is mostly just a case of one company trying to get instant fame by buying up an old trademark, while AIWA Japan probably has very little interest in making earbuds at all. There simply isn't any old AiWA blood floating the the vein of these companies. You might as well think of them as brand new companies that just happened to have an old name.


----------



## audiofreakie

1st Quad Driver Earbuds ever!


----------



## ctaxxxx

Okay, listening to the Liebesleid with the Aliexpress thin foams and an EQ in the bass.
*
Why do I keep forgetting I can do this?!* (I rarely EQ, that's why...)

The huge soundstage and air of the thin foams + the detailed highs and effortless female voices of the Liebesleid + the added bass EQ = exactly what I was looking for! Classical and instrumental music no longer sound too thin or congested by thicker foams.

Honestly, I can get use to the lighter bass after a few listens, but when you have background noise, it tends to be the first thing that gets drowned out. I may keep these after all now. Now I remember why I had the urge to re-buy these in the first place, because these sounded like a mini-HD800S to me.

The only downside now is that I've gotten accustomed to having sweet isolation from an IEM, but this price point is much more tolerable on my wallet (especially considering how much the Oriolus mk2 I paid goes for).


----------



## fairx

For. Those. Who managed to buy t-music v2, how to bypass the shipping charges? I can't change from ems to free. The shipping charges is driving me crazy. Using AE app on android.


----------



## mbwilson111

fairx said:


> For. Those. Who managed to buy t-music v2, how to bypass the shipping charges? I can't change from ems to free. The shipping charges is driving me crazy. Using AE app on android.



I wanted t-music v2 but did not buy them because there was no free shipping to the UK... it was a really high shipping cost...$32!  I don't know why they can ship free to the US but not here.


----------



## toear

So I would say my faael 64s have had plenty of burn in. Result is something that is relatively neutral, leaving to mid centric... A touch light on bass for my tastes but the rest of range is very smooth, wide soundstage, holographically decent, good separation.... Awesome, especially for the price!

But a pain in the ear because my ears are not emx500 shaped or sized...

So... Out comes the file and eventually, finally a heated needle.

The result, custom shaped to take out all the hot spots that the original wheels created, slightly smaller diameter for more flexibility, extra port for deeper bass...

Right now I'm wearing it with donut and full cover on top for 1.5layers. I was wearing it with just the donuts and that was great but thought I would give this a try.. 

Happy ears!!!


----------



## chinmie

ctaxxxx said:


> Okay, listening to the Liebesleid with the Aliexpress thin foams and an EQ in the bass.
> *
> Why do I keep forgetting I can do this?!* (I rarely EQ, that's why...)
> 
> ...



It does take bass boosting quite well. I also do it all the time with it. Like i always say, it's hard to boost treble to add presence, and the Liebesleid have a treble quality that i haven't found in other earbuds. Adding bass is easier

If you really like the Liebesleid but want to have the isolation of an iem, try the Moondrop A4, or cheaper one; the Tinaudio T2.


----------



## 40760

The wait for earbuds in transit is getting painful...


----------



## ShabtabQ

palestofwhite said:


> The wait for earbuds in transit is getting painful...


Same here


----------



## 40760

ShabtabQ said:


> Same here



What do you have on delivery?


----------



## ShabtabQ

palestofwhite said:


> What do you have on delivery?


TinAudio T2 and **** PT15 and you?


----------



## 40760

ShabtabQ said:


> TinAudio T2 and **** PT15 and you?



 A pair of Willsound MK2 and MK3... 

These will be the last for a long time...


----------



## ShabtabQ

palestofwhite said:


> A pair of Willsound MK2 and MK3...
> 
> These will be the last for a long time...


Let me know how they sound i'm Interested too.


----------



## snip3r77

I saw this at only RP 299,000 ( USD 22 )
https://www.bukalapak.com/p/elektronik/headphone/feekp6-jual-earbud-willsound-mk2-earphone

Anyone knows how to buy from this location? Any indonesians can help to purchase LMAO


----------



## 40760

snip3r77 said:


> I saw this at only RP 299,000 ( USD 22 )
> https://www.bukalapak.com/p/elektronik/headphone/feekp6-jual-earbud-willsound-mk2-earphone
> 
> Anyone knows how to buy from this location? Any indonesians can help to purchase LMAO



Think it's a platform for their own domestic market and you need someone from Indonesia to forward it to you... 

You should still be able to save a bit nonetheless...


----------



## waynes world

palestofwhite said:


> What do you have on delivery?



I agree - painful. I have a balanced cable coming that has been lost over the Pacific for the last 2 weeks. And a MK2 on the way. And now I might have to order and wait for another Graphene (old $29) since I sleep with them and they finally balked at the abuse


----------



## 40760

waynes world said:


> I agree - painful. I have a balanced cable coming that has been lost over the Pacific for the last 2 weeks. And a MK2 on the way. And now I might have to order and wait for another Graphene (old $29) since I sleep with them and they finally balked at the abuse



Nothing can be more painful that a lost parcel and I hope your cable eventually shows up!


----------



## BoomBap08

Has anybody already tried to compare the Toneking Ting to the TO400s? Really interested in getting the latter coz upgraditis strikes again lol.


----------



## groucho69

waynes world said:


> I agree - painful. I have a balanced cable coming that has been lost over the Pacific for the last 2 weeks. And a MK2 on the way. And now I might have to order and wait for another Graphene (old $29) since I sleep with them and they finally balked at the abuse



Well my socks showed up today.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have had a package from Singapore languish in Heathrow since August last year


----------



## haiku (May 10, 2018)

Just discovered the diy emx500 from aliexpress. They are a recommendation from one of my FB EA buddies. Consider me impressed.


----------



## Carrow

My Rose Masya set's braided clear cable got HELLA tangled so I've switched to the standard black cable today. I don't know how to undo those knots without severing the cable, just as well the wood grain version comes with an extra one right?


----------



## 40760 (May 10, 2018)

haiku said:


> Just discovered the diy emx500 from aliexpress. They are a recommendation from one of my FB EA buddies. Consider me impressed.



These are really great for the price. If not for the fact that I already own an RY4S which is quite similar, I would have gotten one myself.


----------



## j4100

HungryPanda said:


> I have had a package from Singapore languish in Heathrow since August last year



Really? I'm assuming it is now considered lost? I have a package which met the same fate.


----------



## HungryPanda

j4100 said:


> Really? I'm assuming it is now considered lost? I have a package which met the same fate.


I have given up on it but for the life of me I wish I could remember what it was


----------



## waynes world

You know you are a certified head-fier when....



HungryPanda said:


> but for the life of me I wish I could remember what it was



LOL!

p.s. I've been there!


----------



## ctaxxxx

chinmie said:


> If you really like the Liebesleid but want to have the isolation of an iem, try the Moondrop A4, or cheaper one; the Tinaudio T2.



I may go the isolation route after all. I'm having the same sub-bass issue with the EQ'd Liebesleid that I did with the ZoomFred's. Been to the ENT doctor several times now for the past 2 months. Sinus infection, deep wax issue, found my eardrum _pierced by a hair follicle_ for who knows how long... and finished with a hearing test with the Audiologist in the end. They still can't seem to find anything regarding the noticeable bass imbalance between my ears when listening to music. The hearing tests don't even go below 250 hz.

I think my next logical step would be to minimize worsening the issue by sticking with isolating IEMs and listen at low volumes. I know for sure I tend to boost the volume up at work to cancel out the ambient noise (and even more so with the occasional loud chatter). I have the same bass issue with IEMs, but I can control it more with depth and seal at least. The Liebesleid might be the last earbud purchase I make (which now feels like a waste), unless I buy buds with noticeable sub-bass roll off, or have a mid-bass emphasis like the Diomnes...  (But then I would just use the Diomnes...). There's a possibility it might go away too, but only time will tell.


----------



## chinmie

ctaxxxx said:


> I may go the isolation route after all. I'm having the same sub-bass issue with the EQ'd Liebesleid that I did with the ZoomFred's. Been to the ENT doctor several times now for the past 2 months. Sinus infection, deep wax issue, found my eardrum _pierced by a hair follicle_ for who knows how long... and finished with a hearing test with the Audiologist in the end. They still can't seem to find anything regarding the noticeable bass imbalance between my ears when listening to music. The hearing tests don't even go below 250 hz.
> 
> I think my next logical step would be to minimize worsening the issue by sticking with isolating IEMs and listen at low volumes. I know for sure I tend to boost the volume up at work to cancel out the ambient noise (and even more so with the occasional loud chatter). I have the same bass issue with IEMs, but I can control it more with depth and seal at least. The Liebesleid might be the last earbud purchase I make (which now feels like a waste), unless I buy buds with noticeable sub-bass roll off, or have a mid-bass emphasis like the Diomnes...  (But then I would just use the Diomnes...). There's a possibility it might go away too, but only time will tell.



I'm sorry to hear that..i hope it's nothing permanent. Have you tried to EQ the mid bass on the Liebesleid? 

I have a basic rule of thumb to never listen to earbuds louder than conversation volume, so basically for outside use, and even at home when my family is using the TV a bit loud, i would switch to IEMs/ closed headphones.

On a side note, sometimes i use my earbuds under noise reduction earmuffs


----------



## ctaxxxx

chinmie said:


> I'm sorry to hear that..i hope it's nothing permanent. Have you tried to EQ the mid bass on the Liebesleid?
> 
> I have a basic rule of thumb to never listen to earbuds louder than conversation volume, so basically for outside use, and even at home when my family is using the TV a bit loud, i would switch to IEMs/ closed headphones.
> 
> *On a side note, sometimes i use my earbuds under noise reduction earmuffs *



Oh, I remember wanting to try that. I think the ear muffs I saw online were expensive though. I'll look again. 

I guess I can use earbuds at home though, like at night before bed when a headphone would be too cumbersome.


----------



## snip3r77

ctaxxxx said:


> I may go the isolation route after all. I'm having the same sub-bass issue with the EQ'd Liebesleid that I did with the ZoomFred's. Been to the ENT doctor several times now for the past 2 months. Sinus infection, deep wax issue, found my eardrum _pierced by a hair follicle_ for who knows how long... and finished with a hearing test with the Audiologist in the end. They still can't seem to find anything regarding the noticeable bass imbalance between my ears when listening to music. The hearing tests don't even go below 250 hz.
> 
> I think my next logical step would be to minimize worsening the issue by sticking with isolating IEMs and listen at low volumes. I know for sure I tend to boost the volume up at work to cancel out the ambient noise (and even more so with the occasional loud chatter). I have the same bass issue with IEMs, but I can control it more with depth and seal at least. The Liebesleid might be the last earbud purchase I make (which now feels like a waste), unless I buy buds with noticeable sub-bass roll off, or have a mid-bass emphasis like the Diomnes...  (But then I would just use the Diomnes...). There's a possibility it might go away too, but only time will tell.



You need to know the max volume you can take at home/work and apply this volume when you're outdoors. my 2 cts


----------



## haiku

Fully balanced set up with ZOE White. Can it get any better than this one may wonder?


----------



## ctaxxxx

snip3r77 said:


> You need to know the max volume you can take at home/work and apply this volume when you're outdoors. my 2 cts


I only use earbuds at work though. I've actually never used anything when outdoors.


----------



## handwander

Used Lyra Classic was kind of tempting..


----------



## chellity

I really am surprised how well my kinera earbuds hold up to the willsounds.  While its slightly brighter, and less bass..I swear with my usual bass EQ, the texture of the biocellulose driver comes out wholeheartedly.  Especially considering that im used to the biocellulose driver from my th-x00 ebony.  The soundstage is enormous for a pk shell bud, and the fit is great of course.  I also love the looks of this bud...a low key sparkly green that sheens red.  Exactly like a famous ink from the fountain pen world, Organic Studio Walden pond.

it makes me kind of sad that kinera decided to not pursue earbuds after making this limited bud that the majority of people will never get to try.  There were posters preferring the kineras even over a shozy BK...dont know about that, but my goodness, these buds were great for the price as an entire package, for $22?

only bad thing about them...other than the QC issues, is that they are insanely hard to drive for a 12 ohm. bud!  I'm pretty sure they take more of my volume knob than my th-x00 ebony, and about the same as k's 300 pro.  I wanted to give these to my mom, but she'll need an amp too


----------



## handwander

Just got these in - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...arphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds-DJ/32841881186.html






first mx500 type shell in quite a while, and still am not a fan of the fit. Don't enjoy the cable much either. The sound though is quite impressive, though I have no other cheap buds in this price range (at least from sellers that are unbanned) to compare. Always impressed at the bass some of these cheap buds are able to put out. 

Anyway perhaps nothing too unique, as the number of "cheap & good mx500 earbuds" seems to be quite high, but not a bad addition to that list.


----------



## chinmie

chellity said:


> I really am surprised how well my kinera earbuds hold up to the willsounds.  While its slightly brighter, and less bass..I swear with my usual bass EQ, the texture of the biocellulose driver comes out wholeheartedly.  Especially considering that im used to the biocellulose driver from my th-x00 ebony.  The soundstage is enormous for a pk shell bud, and the fit is great of course.  I also love the looks of this bud...a low key sparkly green that sheens red.  Exactly like a famous ink from the fountain pen world, Organic Studio Walden pond.
> 
> it makes me kind of sad that kinera decided to not pursue earbuds after making this limited bud that the majority of people will never get to try.  There were posters preferring the kineras even over a shozy BK...dont know about that, but my goodness, these buds were great for the price as an entire package, for $22?
> 
> only bad thing about them...other than the QC issues, is that they are insanely hard to drive for a 12 ohm. bud!  I'm pretty sure they take more of my volume knob than my th-x00 ebony, and about the same as k's 300 pro.  I wanted to give these to my mom, but she'll need an amp too



Maybe it's just me, but the Kinera and the BS1 are underwhelming to me, but many people love them, so i guess it's just my personal taste only


----------



## seanc6441 (May 11, 2018)

chinmie said:


> Maybe it's just me, but the Kinera and the BS1 are underwhelming to me, but many people love them, so i guess it's just my personal taste only


Can be that and different ears so the reflection of sound is different for everyone.

I have some earbuds that sound good effortlessly regardless of people position and with many different foams. But there’s some that take quite a bit of trial and error.

I was considering selling on my new Black Ling because I was reaching a dead end with its tonality being weird to my ears but I finally found a good match today and it’s music to my ears now and I cannot put them away... I guess it’s both the blessing and curse of earbuds being so easily tuneable.

Currently running my BS1 on my V20 with modded heigi foam and using an EQ to bump 1-2db of bass boost... Still enjoying how well rounded and sweet it sounds. But as I said before it’s one of my most finicky buds for SQ but when it’s right it sounds so good for this price range.


----------



## snip3r77

chellity said:


> I really am surprised how well my kinera earbuds hold up to the willsounds.  While its slightly brighter, and less bass..I swear with my usual bass EQ, the texture of the biocellulose driver comes out wholeheartedly.  Especially considering that im used to the biocellulose driver from my th-x00 ebony.  The soundstage is enormous for a pk shell bud, and the fit is great of course.  I also love the looks of this bud...a low key sparkly green that sheens red.  Exactly like a famous ink from the fountain pen world, Organic Studio Walden pond.
> 
> it makes me kind of sad that kinera decided to not pursue earbuds after making this limited bud that the majority of people will never get to try.  There were posters preferring the kineras even over a shozy BK...dont know about that, but my goodness, these buds were great for the price as an entire package, for $22?
> 
> only bad thing about them...other than the QC issues, is that they are insanely hard to drive for a 12 ohm. bud!  I'm pretty sure they take more of my volume knob than my th-x00 ebony, and about the same as k's 300 pro.  I wanted to give these to my mom, but she'll need an amp too


Forget about wilsound , they practise price disparity


----------



## chinmie

snip3r77 said:


> Forget about wilsound , they practise price disparity


meaning?


----------



## capnjack

snip3r77 said:


> Forget about wilsound , they practise price disparity


I don’t follow, my mk.1 cost the same as my mk.2 and I consider them to be good value for what I paid. 

???


----------



## 40760 (May 12, 2018)

chinmie said:


> meaning?



Think he meant for domestic (Indonesia) their prices are quite a bit lower than when sold to the international market, thus causing a "disparity" in their prices.

 It's actually quite common for some local branded goods to be priced that way, likely due to dealer mark-ups (they too need to earn as a business) and higher international shipping rates.


----------



## artpiggo

Surprisingly, Hifi shop in Bangkok has simphonio earbud for demo.

Very impressive sound btw.


----------



## chinmie (May 12, 2018)

palestofwhite said:


> Think he meant for domestic (Indonesia) their prices are quite a bit lower than when sold to the international market, thus causing a "disparity" in their prices.
> 
> It's actually quite common for some local branded goods to be priced that way, likely due to dealer mark-ups (they too need to earn as a business) and higher international shipping rates.



@snip3r77 all of the Indonesian earbuds on rholupat are sold higher than domestically, that would be rholupat's decision, not the seller's. you could try contacting the individual builder directly, maybe they can facilitate sending internationally, but from what i know they live on small town in Indonesia and they usually don't know how (or don't want to be bothered) with international shipping. that's where Rholupat comes in.. and rholupat doesn't really sell things domestically. i once contacted adhi (rholupat's owner) to buy the Red Demun because Adhi lives in the same city as me.. and when we met, he said i was the first Indonesian who purchased from him.

if you buy in indonesia, some builder like Willsound even would give you money back guarantee, no questions asked for 7 days or more (even if you just don't like the sound)

besides, domestic pricing are a common practice in south east asia (well other places too) for goods and tourist destinations.


----------



## Guggga (May 12, 2018)

Ooh yes , very pleasing sound. Especially vocals.

Edit : These Buds are Audio Varna, from Indonesia


----------



## Townyj

Those are some nice looking buds


----------



## seanc6441

Guggga said:


> Ooh yes , very pleasing sound. Especially vocals.


Love the cable, not the mx500 shells but to some they are comfortable 

The overall look is pretty great though! If they sound as vibrant as they look they will impress haha


----------



## snip3r77

seanc6441 said:


> Love the cable, not the mx500 shells but to some they are comfortable
> 
> The overall look is pretty great though! If they sound as vibrant as they look they will impress haha


Does Mx760 has bigger she'll than pt15?


----------



## Guggga (May 12, 2018)

Sound is very good. Clear and clean vocals, tight bass and airy non sibilant highs. They're an upgrade over the diy pk2 jimnicehck buds i got a year back. Using these with thick foams which bring out depth and impact. The soindstage isn't very wide but doesn't feel congested, it's intimate in a good way. Organic sounding.

Build is top notch. The cables are very supple, six braids - mix of spc and copper probably the plug is hot! Never seen a plug like this before.

Usually I never care about the packaging, but this hollow bamboo container with the embossed motif on it is pretty cool.


----------



## daid1

Guggga said:


> Sound is very good. Clear and clean vocals, tight bass and airy non sibilant highs. They're an upgrade over the diy pk2 jimnicehck buds i got a year back. Using these with thick foams which bring out depth and impact. The soindstage isn't very wide but doesn't feel congested, it's intimate in a good way. Organic sounding.
> 
> Build is top notch. The cables are very supple, six braids - mix of spc and copper probably the plug is hot! Never seen a plug like this before.
> 
> Usually I never care about the packaging, but this hollow bamboo container with the embossed motif on it is pretty cool.



do you also have the other willsound?


----------



## Guggga

daid1 said:


> do you also have the other willsound?


Yes, but this is from Audio Varna, bought from Adhi at rohlupat.com


----------



## seanc6441 (May 12, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> Does Mx760 has bigger she'll than pt15?


 Yeah I finally got to test my PT15 and I like it. Best earbud for under $10-15 and much better tuning than diy graphene IMO.

I think mine is actually the newer PT15 with 4 vent from Nicehck, the bass isn't missing but does sound better with some EQ.

It does a slighty holographic imaging which is usually not seen in budget earbuds which was a pleasent surprise. Sounds come from all angles, although it's not as coherent as more expensive buds with similar imaging like my K's B Ling. It is however miles ahead of most earbuds in the budget range.

Only complaint is the vocals are slighty thin in the low mids, but not too much tbh.

Bass benefits from a modest EQ bump of 2db and sounds much fuller then.

The shell is comfortable, thin enough to sit snuggly in the ear and the diameter is about PK shell size. Slighty smaller than MX500 or MX760.

I can see why they are liked by chinmie! They are probably slightly better than my diy pk2 for all rounder use, I still consider tweaked pk2 better in vocals and overall resolution slightly but pt15 trashes stock diy pk2 sound.

Fir the price it's ridiculously good.

Edit: comparing my pt15 and my current pk2 setup I think it's pretty close... PT15 wins in bass being slighty deeper, pk2 wins in midrange, treble goes to pk2 also, soundstage/imaging to pt15.

Again in stock form its no contest, pk2 sounds boxy in low mids and overly dry and nasal in upper mids. But both in what I find to be their best forms it's neck to neck.


----------



## seanc6441

And finally, my K's Black Ling. Impressions to follow soon but needless to say it was a worthwhile stuggle to find the best SQ because they are amazing!


----------



## daid1

Guggga said:


> Yes, but this is from Audio Varna, bought from Adhi at rohlupat.com



yep I know, but I want to ask you how does it compare withe the Willsounds earbuds?

thanks in advance


----------



## Guggga

daid1 said:


> yep I know, but I want to ask you how does it compare withe the Willsounds earbuds?
> 
> thanks in advance



They're both nice  different tuning. 
The willsounds are more extended in bass and trebel.


----------



## doggiemom

Guggga said:


> Ooh yes , very pleasing sound. Especially vocals.
> 
> Edit : These Buds are Audio Varna, from Indonesia


Mine have a problem:  rattle on one side when the cable moves.


----------



## doggiemom

chinmie said:


> @snip3r77 all of the Indonesian earbuds on rholupat are sold higher than domestically, that would be rholupat's decision, not the seller's. you could try contacting the individual builder directly, maybe they can facilitate sending internationally, but from what i know they live on small town in Indonesia and they usually don't know how (or don't want to be bothered) with international shipping. that's where Rholupat comes in.. and rholupat doesn't really sell things domestically. i once contacted adhi (rholupat's owner) to buy the Red Demun because Adhi lives in the same city as me.. and when we met, he said i was the first Indonesian who purchased from him.
> 
> if you buy in indonesia, some builder like Willsound even would give you money back guarantee, no questions asked for 7 days or more (even if you just don't like the sound)
> 
> besides, domestic pricing are a common practice in south east asia (well other places too) for goods and tourist destinations.


I bought Wilsound from the maker directly, but with the shipping it ended up being more expensive than buying from Rholupat.


----------



## Townyj

doggiemom said:


> Mine have a problem:  rattle on one side when the cable moves.



Its not the cable just rubbing on the inside of the earpiece..?? I fair few of my buds do that with stiffer cables.


----------



## 40760

doggiemom said:


> I bought Wilsound from the maker directly, but with the shipping it ended up being more expensive than buying from Rholupat.



That's very interesting to know!


----------



## Guggga

doggiemom said:


> Mine have a problem:  rattle on one side when the cable moves.



That's sad! Did you try pressing the plastic face and blowing air inside the grill?

If that doesn't work, speak to Adhi to have it fixed by Varna Audio. You will have to cover shipping.

How do you find the sound on these?


----------



## Guggga

doggiemom said:


> I bought Wilsound from the maker directly, but with the shipping it ended up being more expensive than buying from Rholupat.



Its got something to do with where willy is, which is further inland than Adhi.


----------



## mbwilson111

snip3r77 said:


> Forget about wilsound , they practise price disparity



Why do you go into multiple threads to say negative things without really explaining why.  Do you like anything?


----------



## doggiemom

Townyj said:


> Its not the cable just rubbing on the inside of the earpiece..?? I fair few of my buds do that with stiffer cables.


I don't think so, there is a definite rattle like something is loose.  Only on one side.


Guggga said:


> That's sad! Did you try pressing the plastic face and blowing air inside the grill?
> 
> If that doesn't work, speak to Adhi to have it fixed by Varna Audio. You will have to cover shipping.
> 
> How do you find the sound on these?


No, but I will try that, thanks!  

The cost and hassle of return shipping is too much...... will try to fix them, and if not just chalk it up to bad luck.  I will keep the box though, it is neat.  

I found the sound....... rattle - ey.  I only listened for a couple of minutes and spent the whole time fiddling with them....... they came in the same package as a couple of Wilsounds, so were quickly set aside.


----------



## margroth

seanc6441 said:


> And finally, my K's Black Ling. Impressions to follow soon but needless to say it was a worthwhile stuggle to find the best SQ because they are amazing!



I'm looking forward to hear your impressions of the Black Ling 



Guggga said:


> Its got something to do with where willy is, which is further inland than Adhi.



AFAIK, the shipping services from Indonesia is usually Post Indonesia which cost up to $25/piece (EMS is even more expensive). Therefore, I think it'd be best to open a groupbuy and order by batch for lower shipping fee.


----------



## ld100

I have not read this forum in a while... Can someone tell me if there are any newer models worth getting in a lower price bracket? From 20 to a 100... THis now is a runaway thread with 2000 pages and it is just to much info to process.. Greatly appreciate any help!


----------



## snip3r77

mbwilson111 said:


> Why do you go into multiple threads to say negative things without really explaining why.  Do you like anything?



I think you missed what I said in this thread. I don't comment w/o any factual backup


----------



## Guggga

The thing I appreciate the most about Willy Jaya Lukito, Willsound maker, is that he never himself posts actively in forums. All the impressions and opinions posted are from people who bought and tried his earbuds. Hes pretty low key. 

Also, adding to what Chinmie said - the Indonesian DIY scene is very active and competetive which might have an effect on the disparity in pricing. Either way, the sound of most of these Indonesian buds are more worthy of the price than a lot of the hyped expensive TOTL Chinese earbuds in the recent past. We all hear differently, and this is my opinion.

Just Paypaled Adhi for my lastes order of Willsound earbuds - Mk1 rev 1, mk3, mk300, pk32  - with this my willsound collection will be completed.


----------



## gazzington

Anybody know how to get a zen lite shining?


----------



## Razorbud

Does anyone here have the SWD2 (non plus edition) and is able to give a comparison between that and some of the more modern TOTL's like the shozy bk or SWD2+?

I've managed to find a way to buy them from taobao and I'm considering it as they're a little more affordable than the shozybk/SWD2+. The only reviews that I've managed to find in this thread were that they have a neutral sound signature. Are the current TOTL's more competitive?


----------



## Razorbud

Guggga said:


> The thing I appreciate the most about Willy Jaya Lukito, Willsound maker, is that he never himself posts actively in forums. All the impressions and opinions posted are from people who bought and tried his earbuds. Hes pretty low key.
> 
> Also, adding to what Chinmie said - the Indonesian DIY scene is very active and competetive which might have an effect on the disparity in pricing. Either way, the sound of most of these Indonesian buds are more worthy of the price than a lot of the hyped expensive TOTL Chinese earbuds in the recent past. We all hear differently, and this is my opinion.
> 
> Just Paypaled Adhi for my lastes order of Willsound earbuds - Mk1 rev 1, mk3, mk300, pk32  - with this my willsound collection will be completed.



I really want to try the Indonesian earbuds but the shipping costs from Indonesia are really expensive! I emailed Adhi for a pk32 a while ago and he said he will have some ready in 2 weeks but I'm still not seeing them on his site


----------



## Guggga

Razorbud said:


> I really want to try the Indonesian earbuds but the shipping costs from Indonesia are really expensive! I emailed Adhi for a pk32 a while ago and he said he will have some ready in 2 weeks but I'm still not seeing them on his site



In that case he must be in the process of uploading the new stuff on his site. Combined shipping from Adhi works out cheap for me.

Btw, Wong Kuan Wae is the official distributor for Willsounds in Singapore.


----------



## ClieOS (May 13, 2018)

Razorbud said:


> Does anyone here have the SWD2 (non plus edition) and is able to give a comparison between that and some of the more modern TOTL's like the shozy bk or SWD2+?
> 
> I've managed to find a way to buy them from taobao and I'm considering it as they're a little more affordable than the shozybk/SWD2+. The only reviews that I've managed to find in this thread were that they have a neutral sound signature. Are the current TOTL's more competitive?



While the original SWD2 is excellent on its own right, it is not quite on the current ToTL level anymore. I'll call it somewhere between second flagship to an upper mid tier level, easily beats out 85% of what's out there and especially good if you are looking for an all-rounder.


----------



## seanc6441

Guggga said:


> The thing I appreciate the most about Willy Jaya Lukito, Willsound maker, is that he never himself posts actively in forums. All the impressions and opinions posted are from people who bought and tried his earbuds. Hes pretty low key.
> 
> Also, adding to what Chinmie said - the Indonesian DIY scene is very active and competetive which might have an effect on the disparity in pricing. Either way, the sound of most of these Indonesian buds are more worthy of the price than a lot of the hyped expensive TOTL Chinese earbuds in the recent past. We all hear differently, and this is my opinion.
> 
> Just Paypaled Adhi for my lastes order of Willsound earbuds - Mk1 rev 1, mk3, mk300, pk32  - with this my willsound collection will be completed.


Nice please leave impressions of the PK32 (pk shell right?) vs the others especially the mk2. The MX500 shell used on the mk1-3 is what’s stopping me jumping on the Willsounds


----------



## seanc6441 (May 13, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> While the original SWD2 is excellent on its own right, it is not quite on the current ToTL level anymore. I'll call it somewhere between second flagship to an upper mid tier level, easily beats out 85% of what's out there and especially good if you are looking for an all-rounder.


Nice I didn’t realise there was an original SW2. By the way I got my Black Ling sounding ‘right’ with the magic of thin monk thin foam inner AND thin aliexpress foam over it.

The sound now is just so balanced with a slight V shape. Airy treble sweet brighter mids and deep punchy bass. Not a hint if hollowness or odd tonality to be found now. Love this earbud.


----------



## snip3r77

Anyone can point me to any review of the wilsound


----------



## 40760

Guggga said:


> In that case he must be in the process of uploading the new stuff on his site. Combined shipping from Adhi works out cheap for me.
> 
> Btw, Wong Kuan Wae is the official distributor for Willsounds in Singapore.



Funny I was directed to purchase from Rholupat by Willsound even though I did mention I'm from SG... But it does matter as long as I get it from an official dealer...


----------



## Townyj

I gotta say these Willsounds punch above their weight, gonna have to grab the MK1 some time around now. Both the MK2 and MK3 are enjoyable to listen to.


----------



## 40760

Townyj said:


> I gotta say these Willsounds punch above their weight, gonna have to grab the MK1 some time around now. Both the MK2 and MK3 are enjoyable to listen to.



Seems like the MK1 won't be available till sometime next week. Will himself said he was expecting the red shells to arrive and start producing the next batch...


----------



## Townyj

palestofwhite said:


> Seems like the MK1 won't be available till sometime next week. Will himself said he was expecting the red shells to arrive and start producing the next batch...



Yeah i have been keeping an eye out on Rholupat's site, notice they have been out of stock for a few weeks now  all good. Not in a rush or anything............ must finish collection.


----------



## 40760

Townyj said:


> Yeah i have been keeping an eye out on Rholupat's site, notice they have been out of stock for a few weeks now  all good. Not in a rush or anything............ must finish collection.



I haven't even received my MK3 or 2 and I'm already looking at the MK1...


----------



## Townyj

palestofwhite said:


> I haven't even received my MK3 or 2 and I'm already looking at the MK1...



Its all part of the addiction, hahaha good luck to you  Both the MK2/MK3 sound similar in some ways. May prefer the MK2 slightly, but not by much.


----------



## 40760

Townyj said:


> Its all part of the addiction, hahaha good luck to you  Both the MK2/MK3 sound similar in some ways. May prefer the MK2 slightly, but not by much.



I bought the MK3 when the MK2 was out of stock. Then shortly after they came back in stock and I bough them... Maybe I should have bought the MK1 instead...


----------



## gazzington

For the first since buying them I’ve tried out my  RX-1. Really like them. Plugged into my EarStudio radsone and it sounds very clear and detailed


----------



## snip3r77

Townyj said:


> I gotta say these Willsounds punch above their weight, gonna have to grab the MK1 some time around now. Both the MK2 and MK3 are enjoyable to listen to.


I think punches above it's weight is over used .yeah I feel for my graphenes too. 

Not sure how does wilsounds sound


----------



## snip3r77

seanc6441 said:


> Nice please leave impressions of the PK32 (pk shell right?) vs the others especially the mk2. The MX500 shell used on the mk1-3 is what’s stopping me jumping on the Willsounds


Same. How does one knows the shell used are bigger. Mx500 is too big for my ears


----------



## 40760

snip3r77 said:


> Same. How does one knows the shell used are bigger. Mx500 is too big for my ears



I must be one of the rare lucky ones whereby the MX500 shells fit my ears decently...


----------



## Guggga

Townyj said:


> Its all part of the addiction, hahaha good luck to you  Both the MK2/MK3 sound similar in some ways. May prefer the MK2 slightly, but not by much.



What's the difference between the signatures of the two


----------



## snip3r77

Guggga said:


> What's the difference between the signatures of the two


There's not much review and I want to know too


----------



## Townyj

Guggga said:


> What's the difference between the signatures of the two



I will have a listen over the next week and let you know further.


----------



## 40760

Townyj said:


> I will have a listen over the next week and let you know further.



Likewise I can also share my views when I receive both. MK3 should be with me in the next 2 to 3 days and MK2 the following week...


----------



## haiku

Have a bunch of Willsound arrive here next week.


----------



## snip3r77

haiku said:


> Have a bunch of Willsound arrive here next week.





Townyj said:


> I will have a listen over the next week and let you know further.


Pls help to compare to those that you have if possible. Thanks


----------



## Guggga

snip3r77 said:


> I think punches above it's weight is over used .yeah I feel for my graphenes too.
> 
> Not sure how does wilsounds sound


Not sure if you're on the Earbuds Anonymous Facebook group. The willsounds have been a rage there since a year now, long before they appeared here. Quite a few over there seem to like them over their more expensive gears.


----------



## chinmie

snip3r77 said:


> I think punches above it's weight is over used .yeah I feel for my graphenes too.
> 
> Not sure how does wilsounds sound



I prefer the MK2 than the Samsara. I sold my MX760 graphenes...so there


----------



## Razorbud

Guggga said:


> In that case he must be in the process of uploading the new stuff on his site. Combined shipping from Adhi works out cheap for me.
> 
> Btw, Wong Kuan Wae is the official distributor for Willsounds in Singapore.



Thank you for this. I have contacted him and he said he didn't have any stock for the pk32. He also said that he will have to check about bringing some in in the future. I have email Adhi again so we'll wait for his reply


----------



## capnjack

Just ordered a pair of Blur Black Panthers, my Willsound mk.2 should be here soon and then I can compare them all to my Willsound mk.1 rev2


----------



## seanc6441

snip3r77 said:


> Same. How does one knows the shell used are bigger. Mx500 is too big for my ears


Heard on here a few pages back the Willsound PK32 uses Yuin shell which is much more comfortable than mx500 shell IMO. Smaller diameter slightly and more ergonomic design.


----------



## snip3r77

Guggga said:


> Not sure if you're on the Earbuds Anonymous Facebook group. The willsounds have been a rage there since a year now, long before they appeared here. Quite a few over there seem to like them over their more expensive gears.



So I'm kinda late into the game LMAO.
There's MK2 and MK3... hmmm


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Yeah I finally got to test my PT15 and I like it. Best earbud for under $10-15 and much better tuning than diy graphene IMO.
> 
> I think mine is actually the newer PT15 with 4 vent from Nicehck, the bass isn't missing but does sound better with some EQ.
> 
> ...



My older PT15 and my newest one has no difference in sound after a few hours of burning (straight ootb the newer one sounded more boxy).  Even with different cables (both single ended) they both sound the same. Btw I put the same tape mod on both of them.


 

I usually relegate one of them for bluetooth, and the other with a balanced cable.

Also i ordered this one, because @waynes world  tempted me with the one vent so much, might as well get the flashy red one


----------



## Guggga

Listening to Sufjan Stevens - All of me wants all of you, on the willsound mk2. The Soundstage is indefinite. The presentation is ethereal.

Now on Cradle of filths Hallowed be thy name, the guttral vocals and shrieks are superbly seperated from the rest of the music which is effortlessly presented without any congestion.


----------



## seanc6441 (May 13, 2018)

I don’t know if it’s brain burn in or actual burn in (20 hours so far) but oh my do these K’s Ling sound PHENOMENAL with thin aliexpress foams ( after punching a centre hole for tighter bass). Gone is any hollowness I was experiencing before.

Everything is so energetic and punchy, this earbud is definitely not for the treble sensitivie but where I found the graphenes slightly irritating and harsh, these are smooth and bright up top and full and deep down low.

Easily the most ‘full size headphone’ I’ve experienced in an earbud, I actually think I prefer the soundstage on this than my Mojito. Almost as wide, but more depth and layering, everything is playing around you at different positions keeping you very engaged in the music.

Best earbud by far for my favourite Radiohead albums (radiohead sounds dull on lesser gear with more 2D soundstage I feel the albums are mastered for higher fidelity gear) and now all the small nuances are alive in the music.

The driver is extremely quick in decay despite the bassy presence. With regular full foams it takes on a normal speed and smooth nature but with the thin foams it becomes slightly more aggressive and quick. For now I’m preferring the thinner foams.



As you see I’ve marked R L with coloured electrical tape, but actually there is a tiny little dimple on one stem to indicate right incase you don’t feel like using coloured foams or tape.

Overall I’m quite happy with my purchase, I probably wouldn’t spend the RRP of $250 on it simply because it’s a big investment for me but at the sale price I paid around $190-200 and I’m just about pleased with the performance for the price.

Although honestly I cannot ‘recommend’ spending that much if you cannot afford that. I’m just a little crazy maybe and wanted to sample some of the best earbuds. But if you have the money I do think this earbud is a worthy choice.


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> I don’t know if it’s brain burn in or actual burn in (20 hours so far) but oh my do these K’s Ling sound PHENOMENAL with thin aliexpress foams ( after punching a centre hole for tighter bass). Gone is any hollowness I was experiencing before.
> 
> Everything is so energetic and punchy, this earbud is definitely not for the treble sensitivie but where I found the graphenes slightly irritating and harsh, these are smooth and bright up top and full and deep down low.
> 
> ...



Hi Sean, where do you rate K's Ling in comparison with Masya / Shozy Bk & BS1?? ....recently been using Faaeal Narcissus (300ohm) - still kinda tempted to try out another TOTL pair (maybe the BS1 official....)


----------



## Zerohour88

Guggga said:


> In that case he must be in the process of uploading the new stuff on his site. Combined shipping from Adhi works out cheap for me.
> 
> Btw, Wong Kuan Wae is the official distributor for Willsounds in Singapore.



Any info on Malaysian distributors? Interested to purchase the MK2 as upgrades to my NiceHCK graphenes (already tried contacting a bukalapak seller, hopefully he replies)

Also would welcome anyone with suggestions on what would be a good upgrade to them, I love a bright sound sig with soundstage and clarity the main priority.

Budget would be around USD$60-ish, but since I can maybe get stuff cheaper directly from China or Indonesia, that would skew the pricing up a bit.


----------



## seanc6441 (May 13, 2018)

activatorfly said:


> Hi Sean, where do you rate K's Ling in comparison with Masya / Shozy Bk & BS1?? ....recently been using Faaeal Narcissus (300ohm) - still kinda tempted to try out another TOTL pair (maybe the BS1 official....)


Sound wise they are quite similar to my BS1 official in the mids, but with deeper punchier bass and more treble extension and sparkle. So if the BS1 is balanced-slighty mid centric. These are balanced to slightly V shaped.

I personally rate the BS1 mids very highly so I do not consider them a downgrade to these black lings in vocals and mids. Both have 9/10 mids IMO.

Bass is still punchy on the BS1 but it's not in the same league as these Lings, few earbuds are though! I found the BS1 does respond well to some mild EQing in the bass though, indicating the bass quality is good.

Treble is of high quality on the bs1 but the ling just extends further. Both are very smooth and airy.

Soundstage while medium large on the BS1 (worn over ear), is slighty more upfront than the very spacious Ling. I wouldn't say either will struggle for space but the Ling gets you closer to full size headphone staging.

Imaging while accurate on the BS1 with good layering and good separation, doesn't do the same magic as I'm hearing with the Ling. The Ling seems to present precisely from all angles around the head. Very holographic 3D sounding. This may be it's defining feature other than the outstanding extension on both ends.

The attack or decay is faster on the Ling, although the BS1 is no slouch the Ling will handle fast EDM and Metal with ease. Never getting congested. 

So yeah the Ling is one step up, but the BS1 can keep up for vocals and mid range quality and all round is an excellent earbud IMO. Heavy cable issues and fit issues aside of course, but I fixed both with over ear use and testing a multitude of foams to get the best balance of sound.


----------



## seanc6441 (May 13, 2018)

About the Masya it's pretty close overall but I think the BS1 slightly edges it on coherancy of the single driver and on detail retrieval. Although both are good buys the BS1 is better value for money IMO.

About the BK, I don't have it on hand right now but long story short I'll have it back in a month or so with a 2.5mm ttrs cable 

From memory I'll say it's too different a tuning to compare directly. The Ling will WOW you more with its extension and tasteful V signature but the BK has the lovely linear slighty low mid centric quality and natural analog tonality to it that I loved on first listen.

The Ling is technically slighty better Id say as I remember the BK and BS1 being somewhat close in overall quality but really it comes down to your music and sound sig preference.

If I'm listening to laid back vocals, 60-80s pop- rock or acoustic and instrumental I'm grabbing the BK for sure. If I'm after some Classical or Jazz I'll take the Mojito. For everything else the Ling, actually the Ling sounds phenomenal with Jazz too so there's that haha.

The BS1 can do all genres too but it lacks the bass extension to really wow with deep bass. But if you EQ it it becomes respectable in sub bass and overall a great all rounder.


----------



## jogawag (May 15, 2018)

The sound of "Creative Aurvana Air" is bright, vivid, slightly hard, glossy and very clear.
Even though the sound line is thin, there is thickness, extremely high resolution, bright, clear and vivid sound, good quality and massive bass.
It is super high sound quality earphone.
Resolution, sound field feeling is the highest level in Earbuds.
In a wide sound field, within it, each instrument gets split up splendidly.
The resolution is also very high, there is no dissatisfaction point at all.
The sound is easy to hear, the sharpness is good and the extra sound does not sound.
Still, I feel that there is enough amount of information.

The low range has very high quality and rich sense of volume, it is a tight sound.
The mid range has clear, glossy, somewhat hard, bright feeling, but also sibilant can be heard without discomfort without pain.
The high range is somewhat hard, accompanied by metallic sound. The elongation of the high range is quite good.
Depending on the song, the high range is glittery and comfortable.

In order to avoid slightly hard sound, please wear it with thick foam ear pads and donuts pad.

The ear hook makes bass weak, and itbecomes complicated at the time of wearing, so remove itt. A trick goes in how to remove it.
Wrap a wide rubber band around the part of the screw that holds the ear hook on the back side of the housing and turn it counterclockwise together with the rubber band to remove the screw.
Nevertheless, it is necessary to turn the rubber bands with pliers and rotate it or to bite the teeth and rotate it.







The purchase place is below.

Amazon (USA)：
https://www.amazon.com/Creative-earhook-earphone-Aurvana-EP-AVNAIR/dp/B002HK3K2G/

Creative Technology (USA)：
https://us.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/aurvana-air

Creative Technology (UK)：
https://uk.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/aurvana-air

Creative Technology (Singapore)：
https://sg.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/aurvana-air

Creative Technology (Japan)：
http://jp.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/aurvana-air


----------



## 40760

The Auvarna Air is so tempting... This can be more first metal earbud...


----------



## handwander

How do the NiceHCK EBX and Svara L rate in terms of comfort for most people?


----------



## margroth

jogawag said:


> The sound of "Creative Aurvana Air" is bright, vivid, slightly hard, glossy and very clear.
> Even though the sound line is thin, there is thickness, extremely high resolution, bright, clear and vivid sound, good quality and massive bass.
> It is super high sound quality earphone.
> Resolution, sound field feeling is the highest level in Earbuds.
> ...



I saw you had the Simphonio Dragon 2+ as well. How does this Creative Aurvana Air stand, comparing with the Simphonio D2+? I know it's unfair, since the SD2+ tripled the price of the CAA, but I have the SD2+ as well and I can take it as a reference bud to other


----------



## chaiyuta (May 14, 2018)

I was invited to join prakarnniranam DIY earbud meeting and I went to it yesterday. However participants not only went to try prakarnniranam earbuds but also they bring other DIY earbuds and some legendary vintage earbuds as well. I think it might be nice to share pictures here (inside spoiler).



Spoiler: Prakarn Niranam Meeting 20180513



1) Invitation leaflet : Prakarn Niranam, One of the famous DIY earbuds





2) Take a shot of all participants including the V-Friend owner and the Airman owner. Sadly Iconic owner previously left before taking a shot.




3) A meeting Organizer is listening music via heavy-weight headphone + DX200 + portable tube amp (very heavy and hot), so hard core.








4) These are the belongings of V-friend owner, legendary AIWA D9 + Panasonic SL-J905 CD player. These are very extremly synergy, very realistic tonality and its soundstage make me feel like I am listening a very good speaker system. Very Very Great combination. Though AIWA D9 is very picky on matching, I tried it with some up-to-date DAPs and it sounds mediocre.








5) another legendary Sony e272, again a belonging of V-friend owner




6) Luckily that one participant is Campfred2 Owner. Its cable is soft without noticably microphonics. All-rounder style earbuds that can play well with any-genres. It is quite bright tonality and nice soundstage width. Another one participant asked owner to sale him as a second-hand cause it pairs well with his smartphone.




7) Sony PCM-D1, another V-friend owner belongings~ Very good sound with any earbuds one. After listened, I understand why some earbuds enthusiasts loves to listen thier earbuds via Digital Recorder as source~.




8) Agian and Again. Another one more V-friend belonging, Olympus LS-11. this is a good price per performance recorder one that having sexy SQ. He informed me that among LS-1x, LS-11 is the best SQ playback.




9) Here is ICONIC Beyond, 16-ohm driver with confidential secret info. they are spending time on tuning and more than 20 solder types (pick up some to final use) and custom-made 7N OCC cable from factory specifically for this buds (so no more found in taobao, aliexpress, oyaide store, etc.). Unfortunately it was not properly burn-in yet. First impression is seamless and coherent vocal with 'just right' tonality neither warm or bright. I checked it with female and male vocal tracks and it doesn't shift frequency to apparently upper or lower & too thicker or too thinner likes many usual earbuds. The vertical positioning of drum/bass is always bottom, vocal is middle, and any high frequency is the top. Need more burn-in to give constructive impression.




10) Hightlight of this meeting : All Prakarn Niranam Line-up : 32Ohm, 64Ohm and 185Ohm.




11) Prakarn Niranam 185Ohm Nordost Red cable + Nideon Flagship plug is the show-case model (above flagship model) regardless of material cost. The strong point of this version is realistic and insane dynamic contrast with very deep soundstage. Though its cable is still memory in curly form, so my liking on both ergonomic and sound is still his flagship model.




12) The current flagship model, Prakarn Niranam 185Ohm Toxic Silver Poison V2 + Nideon Flagship plug. Its cable insulator is very soft PVC with a bit microphonic when I get both L-R cable scratch each other. Very well detail retrieval, Wider and Deeper soundstage, deeper sub-bass than Silver Poison V1 + 3.5 Eidolic plug I ever tried last year (but this version is 4.4 mm. BL plug and the next gen V2 of toxic cable). This is my favourite version of 185Ohm. By the way, any Prakarn Niraram 185 Ohm is recommended to pair with the Cypher Labs DUET portable amp to shoot it to the moon~. Many participants mutually agreed and feedbacked that it make Prakarn Niranam sounds like very good full-size can or speaker system.







Having to say that there are many earbuds enthusiasts in Thailand and especially this year the earbud market in Thailand is very growing, many people pay attention more and more.

Thank you all participants who joining this meeting and sharing thier opinion in a nice way with warm welcome.
End~


----------



## artpiggo

chaiyuta said:


> I was invited to join prakarnniranam DIY earbud meeting and I went to it yesterday. However participants not only went to try prakarnniranam earbuds but also they bring other DIY earbuds and some legendary vintage earbuds as well. I think it might be nice to share pictures here (inside spoiler).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You'd better tell everyone how to spell the meeting name. 

https://translate.google.co.th/?rlz...e=UTF-8&hl=en&client=tw-ob#th/en/พระกาฬนิรนาม

Then Click to let google spell.


----------



## artpiggo (May 14, 2018)

By the way, Moondrop earbud has come to Munkong Gadget (Bangkok based Hifi shop) as well. Happy to see a lot more earbuds coming to the shop. Because in the past, this shop only sold Yuin and Ostry earbud. It is new choices for earbud lovers.


----------



## jogawag (May 14, 2018)

margroth said:


> I saw you had the Simphonio Dragon 2+ as well. How does this Creative Aurvana Air stand, comparing with the Simphonio D2+? I know it's unfair, since the SD2+ tripled the price of the CAA, but I have the SD2+ as well and I can take it as a reference bud to other



>Comparing(IMO) Aurvana Air & SWD2+
  (Premise: Use with foam pad & Remove Aurvana Air's Ear hook)

Earbuds　　　　　　| Aurvana Air　| SWD2+
--------------------------|-----------------|---------------
Sound signature　　| U-Shaped　　| Flat
Sound tendency　　| Sharp　　　　| Clear
Bass　　　　　　　| Sufficient　　　| Normal
Mid　　　　　　　　| Normal　　　| Sufficient
Treble　　　　　　　| Sufficient　　| Sufficient
Sound stage　　　　| Wide　　　　| Wide
Sound information　| Good　　　　| Huge
Balanced (2.5mm)　| No　　　　　| Supported
Feeling of fit　　　　| Not so good　| Good
--------------------------|------------------|---------------​


----------



## margroth

jogawag said:


> ​
> >Comparing Aurvana Air & SWD2+
> (Premise: Use with foam pad & Remove Aurvana Air's Ear hook)
> 
> ...



Thank you for the helpful comparison - it seems that the SWD2+ is better in term of performance, but the CAA is no slouch either, especially for the price


----------



## ShabtabQ

Just got my TinAudio T2 and **** PT15 Delivered, and I'll have to say damnnn the T2 is best IEM I've heard till date, and **** PT15 best buy earbud at that price like price to performance wise it's the best, I got it for 300 INR. And I would like to thank all the head fi users who helped me, thanks a lot for these great suggestions.


----------



## snip3r77

ShabtabQ said:


> Just got my TinAudio T2 and **** PT15 Delivered, and I'll have to say damnnn the T2 is best IEM I've heard till date, and **** PT15 best buy earbud at that price like price to performance wise it's the best, I got it for 300 INR. And I would like to thank all the head fi users who helped me, thanks a lot for these great suggestions.




I got the same as you and I'm very happy with them


----------



## letlive (May 14, 2018)

Did anyone compare the PT15 to the EMX500(s)? How is the bass of the PT15?


----------



## chinmie

ShabtabQ said:


> Just got my TinAudio T2 and **** PT15 Delivered, and I'll have to say damnnn the T2 is best IEM I've heard till date, and **** PT15 best buy earbud at that price like price to performance wise it's the best, I got it for 300 INR. And I would like to thank all the head fi users who helped me, thanks a lot for these great suggestions.



congrats, that right there are two of my favorites too



letlive said:


> Did anyone compare the PT15 to the EMX500(s)? How is the bass?



the EMX500 have deeper and bigger bass


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> The Ling will WOW you more with its extension and tasteful V signature but the BK has the lovely linear slighty low mid centric quality and natural analog tonality to it that I loved on first listen.



The Ling sounds like my pint of beer!


----------



## HungryPanda

waynes world said:


> The Ling sounds like my pint of beer!


Well a few more pints if you look at the price


----------



## waynes world

handwander said:


> How do the NiceHCK EBX and Svara L rate in terms of comfort for most people?



I can't speak for the EBX's, but I find the Svara L's to be very comfortable. Prior to getting them, I could never wear earbuds over ear, but the Svara L's work very well over ear. And they look very cool (I feel like I am wearing designer earbudware lol). The only downside for me is that I can't use them when falling asleep (which is probably a good thing so that I don't destroy them).


----------



## ShabtabQ

Which one of them benefits the most from a balanced cable, TinAuduo T2 or PT15?


----------



## HungryPanda

TinAudio T2 of course


----------



## chinmie

ShabtabQ said:


> Which one of them benefits the most from a balanced cable, TinAuduo T2 or PT15?





HungryPanda said:


> TinAudio T2 of course



agreed. T2 benefits greatly from balanced. strangely, I like the PT15 more with SE cables..


----------



## subwoof3r

Just received today my *NiceHCK DIY PK2*, and couldn't resist for a quick first listen to work with VE full extra thin foams, but was immediately disapointed by the sound. Nothing extraordinary, absolutely no "wow" effect, thin soundstage, absolutely no bass (no need to tell for sub-bass.), only vocals and highs looks ok (even if could do things much better).
As they sound out of the box, I guess they even don't deserve to get on my burning desk, as I really doubt they will change with time.
Definitely, Willsound MK2/MK1 sounds like a TOTL compared to these. Outch!


----------



## kurtextrem

waynes world said:


> I can't speak for the EBX's, but I find the Svara L's to be very comfortable. Prior to getting them, I could never wear earbuds over ear, but the Svara L's work very well over ear. And they look very cool (I feel like I am wearing designer earbudware lol). The only downside for me is that I can't use them when falling asleep (which is probably a good thing so that I don't destroy them).


For me the Svara-L is not uncomfortable, but it simply doesn't fit my ear because of the size.


----------



## Carrow

Just asking, it's Y i n y o o & not Y i n c r o w that are another banned seller on here right? I almost mixed them up even as I was typing this, so let me know which one it is for future reference.


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> The Ling sounds like my pint of beer!


Yes. Infact it’s hard to call between balanced and V shaped. Feels like it adapts to the music in question at times 



HungryPanda said:


> Well a few more pints if you look at the price



But only the cheap stuff because you won’t be able to afford it after your purchase


----------



## seanc6441

subwoof3r said:


> Just received today my *NiceHCK DIY PK2*, and couldn't resist for a quick first listen to work with VE full extra thin foams, but was immediately disapointed by the sound. Nothing extraordinary, absolutely no "wow" effect, thin soundstage, absolutely no bass (no need to tell for sub-bass.), only vocals and highs looks ok (even if could do things much better).
> As they sound out of the box, I guess they even don't deserve to get on my burning desk, as I really doubt they will change with time.
> Definitely, Willsound MK2/MK1 sounds like a TOTL compared to these. Outch!


I did try warn people that they don’t sound good with stock foams. I use mine with modded foams that involves some cutting and my pair is burned in for maybe 50+ hours. They sound good to my ears maybe slightly less well rounded than the PT15 but I’ve only just discovered that sound and i think its the best under $20 for all round use.


----------



## capnjack

So, my love affair with Willsound buds progresses.......
Just received the Willsound mk.2 ootb they’re impressive. Strangely I find that if alternate between the mk.1 and mk.2 I need a couple of clicks more volume on the mk.1??? I thought both were 32ohm?  
Mk.1 definitely has deeper bass, whereas mk.2 seems to have a bit more in the mid-bass. Mk.1 seems to have a slightly bigger soundstage, but mk.2 only has about 30 mins burning in.


----------



## Guggga

subwoof3r said:


> Just received today my *NiceHCK DIY PK2*, and couldn't resist for a quick first listen to work with VE full extra thin foams, but was immediately disapointed by the sound. Nothing extraordinary, absolutely no "wow" effect, thin soundstage, absolutely no bass (no need to tell for sub-bass.), only vocals and highs looks ok (even if could do things much better).
> As they sound out of the box, I guess they even don't deserve to get on my burning desk, as I really doubt they will change with time.
> Definitely, Willsound MK2/MK1 sounds like a TOTL compared to these. Outch!



Hey man, try and give earbuds / new gear a week's time after receiving to allow the sound to open up and also for your ears to reset from the sound of the gear in use. 

Coming right after the mk2 rev 2 it's no surprise that you find the pk2 lacking. The mk2 have a very musical sound whereas the pk2 are kinda analouge and dry. The pk2 need burn in, lotsa burnnnn !


----------



## seanc6441

seanc6441 said:


> I did try warn people that they don’t sound good with stock foams. I use mine with modded foams that involves some cutting and my pair is burned in for maybe 50+ hours. They sound good to my ears maybe slightly less well rounded than the PT15 but I’ve only just discovered that sound and i think its the best under $20 for all round use.


Here’s a good example of a relatively easy foam to cut and makes the pk2 much  better sounding.


VE donut, with a few cuts on 5 sides to make a sort of star shape. The cuts basically just to allow more treble through than stock think donut. If you have these foams I’ll show you how I cut it with a picture. This was fairly easy to cut.


----------



## subwoof3r

Ok for PK2 will try these tips, and give some burn'in, let's see in few days  thanks


----------



## seanc6441

subwoof3r said:


> Ok for PK2 will try these tips, and give some burn'in, let's see in few days  thanks


oh and don’t be afraid to apply strong EQ if you’re source can do it. I applied a big U shape EQ as shown and after that it sounds like most earbuds in bass and treble... By default these are overly mid centric and boxy sounding.

 

With these mods and EQ its like normal earbud but with very detailed vocals.


----------



## Carrow

Got a Willsound MK1 Rev 2 OTW thanks to @subwoof3r, and I just ordered a FAAEAL Z-Sound 32 off their official AE store; as well as a Vido off AK for Schitts and giggles. Much earbud, wow.


----------



## chinmie

If your ears can fit them, i would prefer MX500 style shell than Yuins everytime. The Yuin shell will always lacking extention in the lowest bass and highest treble.. Not to say it's not possible (I've heard modded yuin shell that have big subbass, for instance), but still, given the same treatment, the MX500 shell would just have a better potential because of the bigger body.

The only argument that i would choose yuins is for nicer and more flush fitting


----------



## snip3r77

chinmie said:


> congrats, that right there are two of my favorites too
> 
> 
> 
> the EMX500 have deeper and bigger bass



But pt15 owna graphene but


subwoof3r said:


> Just received today my *NiceHCK DIY PK2*, and couldn't resist for a quick first listen to work with VE full extra thin foams, but was immediately disapointed by the sound. Nothing extraordinary, absolutely no "wow" effect, thin soundstage, absolutely no bass (no need to tell for sub-bass.), only vocals and highs looks ok (even if could do things much better).
> As they sound out of the box, I guess they even don't deserve to get on my burning desk, as I really doubt they will change with time.
> Definitely, *Willsound MK2/MK1* sounds like a TOTL compared to these. Outch!



Sounds like what ToTL?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Nathan liked the Sunrise Audio gear in the past, so he was curious to find out how the new Dragon 2+ unit, under the Simphonio brand performs. Now on Headfonia after the click!

https://www.headfonia.com/review-simphonio-dragon-2plus/


----------



## chinmie

Ultrainferno said:


> Nathan liked the Sunrise Audio gear in the past, so he was curious to find out how the new Dragon 2+ unit, under the Simphonio brand performs. Now on Headfonia after the click!
> 
> https://www.headfonia.com/review-simphonio-dragon-2plus/



plus one on the review impressions. Dragon 2+ strengh is it's soundstaging. overall like them a whole lot more than the Mojito


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> plus one on the review impressions. Dragon 2+ strengh is it's soundstaging. overall like them a whole lot more than the Mojito


Never heard the D2+ but that review gave me a good metal image of its sound. Very well written and it does highlight the Soundstage and vocals as strong points.

About the Mojito soundstage I could compare it to my Black Ling and say a similar point. Mojito is super wide and moderately deep but it doesn’t have the same 3D feeling of my Ling. Sounds hit you from big vast planar faces on each side... but you know where it’s coming from in all instances and that it’s produced from the left and right earbud.

With the Ling although not being quite as wide, the sounds are unpredictable and placed on any point around the head. It keeps you more alert to changes in imaging position and your brain doesn’t associate every sound being produced from the earbud but it sounds like the source of the sound is completely surrounding you.


----------



## 40760 (May 15, 2018)

Could anyone with the Willsound MK3 (or MK1/2) take a picture of their Y-Split where the cables come out? Mine looks a bit raw with some glue and blue insulation sticking out from the bottom hole.

EDIT: Alright have clarified with Will that it's normal... Not that it affects the excellent sound even before the recommended 20 hours burn-in...


----------



## Guggga

palestofwhite said:


> Could anyone with the Willsound MK3 (or MK1/2) take a picture of their Y-Split where the cables come out? Mine looks a bit raw with some glue and blue insulation sticking out from the bottom hole.
> 
> EDIT: Alright have clarified with Will that it's normal... Not that it affects the excellent sound even before the recommended 20 hours burn-in...


Congratulations! Post a pic here. Is it a mk3?


----------



## 40760

Guggga said:


> Congratulations! Post a pic here. Is it a mk3?



Thanks! Yes it's a MK3... my MK2 is still with the local post. Should be giving the MK3 to my wife and using the MK2 myself when it arrives...


----------



## HungryPanda

Well I have the Willsound mk2 and my wife has the mk1. I will have to let her give me a listen


----------



## capnjack

HungryPanda said:


> Well I have the Willsound mk2 and my wife has the mk1. I will have to let her give me a listen


You are in for a treat! They’re both absolutely brilliant buds, i find the mk.1 extends a bit more at either end, but it needs a touch more volume. Happy listening, if she’ll let you!


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> Well I have the Willsound mk2 and my wife has the mk1. I will have to let her give me a listen



Do you think she will?


----------



## HungryPanda

mbwilson111 said:


> Do you think she will?


I do not know


----------



## j4100

HungryPanda said:


> I do not know


----------



## capnjack

HungryPanda said:


> I do not know


Just remember that she’ll want them back! 
Might be worth swapping for a while, no that won’t work, not for a/b ‘ing and she might want to keep both! 
Best just order another pair!


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> I do not know



Yes you do, lol,


----------



## mbwilson111

capnjack said:


> Just remember that she’ll want them back!
> Might be worth swapping for a while, no that won’t work, not for a/b ‘ing and she might want to keep both!
> Best just order another pair!



yes
no
no

I don't want HIM to want to keep both!


----------



## HungryPanda

Now you have hit the nail on the head


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> Now you have hit the nail on the head



You have forgotten that she has heard both and only wants the MK1...and you will only need the MK2


----------



## capnjack

Ive just received the mk.2 (listening to it now), had the mk.1 rev2 for about a month. It’s a hard decision to pick one over the other. I thinks it’s source dependant, N5 = mk.2, XDP-300 = mk.1


----------



## seanc6441 (May 15, 2018)

I finally got to try my balanced cable on the TO400s through my Hiby R6.

Big improvement. Not sure if it’s the extra power or the slightly different signature of the R6 but the TO400s is almost neutral now, with a lean towards the male vocal region. Sound has opened up slightly so vocals that were once too forward are now naturally placed.

It must be the extra power in balanced because the R6 is like a slightly darker V20 with a sub bass boost, yet the TO400s actually sounds more balanced now than before on the V20 in SE/3.5mm.

Another nice thing to note is that I haven’t noticed any issues with my Rose buds on the R6. Seems to effect IEM’s but not my dynamic earbuds at all I guess.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Never heard the D2+ but that review gave me a good metal image of its sound. Very well written and it does highlight the Soundstage and vocals as strong points.
> 
> About the Mojito soundstage I could compare it to my Black Ling and say a similar point. Mojito is super wide and moderately deep but it doesn’t have the same 3D feeling of my Ling. Sounds hit you from big vast planar faces on each side... but you know where it’s coming from in all instances and that it’s produced from the left and right earbud.
> 
> With the Ling although not being quite as wide, the sounds are unpredictable and placed on any point around the head. It keeps you more alert to changes in imaging position and your brain doesn’t associate every sound being produced from the earbud but it sounds like the source of the sound is completely surrounding you.



I can't check the mojito right now, but you could try listening to live binaural recordings and check if the soundstage "meets" in the middle/in front of our face between the left and right ears ( i usually use this Amber Rubarth's song to check )

 a good cans should produce a complete circular /oval soundstage. I suspect the Ling has this.


----------



## 40760

palestofwhite said:


> Could anyone with the Willsound MK3 (or MK1/2) take a picture of their Y-Split where the cables come out? Mine looks a bit raw with some glue and blue insulation sticking out from the bottom hole.
> 
> EDIT: Alright have clarified with Will that it's normal... Not that it affects the excellent sound even before the recommended 20 hours burn-in...



Rholupat is getting my MK3 replaced in the end. Excellent service!


----------



## golov17

Ultrainferno said:


> Nathan liked the Sunrise Audio gear in the past, so he was curious to find out how the new Dragon 2+ unit, under the Simphonio brand performs. Now on Headfonia after the click!
> 
> https://www.headfonia.com/review-simphonio-dragon-2plus/


Judging by the review - the past is left in the past, lol


----------



## dheepak10 (May 16, 2018)

capnjack said:


> So, my love affair with Willsound buds progresses.......
> Just received the Willsound mk.2 ootb they’re impressive. Strangely I find that if alternate between the mk.1 and mk.2 I need a couple of clicks more volume on the mk.1??? I thought both were 32ohm?
> Mk.1 definitely has deeper bass, whereas mk.2 seems to have a bit more in the mid-bass. Mk.1 seems to have a slightly bigger soundstage, but mk.2 only has about 30 mins burning in.


Looks like MK1 driver is less sensitive than MK2. Both have a unique and nice signature - MK1 takes sometime getting used to; MK2 is great from the go . 
MK1 has much bigger soundstage width than MK2. Depth is similar but I like the depth rendering of MK2 more.
But then, you can't say one is better than the other overall!


----------



## capnjack

dheepak10 said:


> Looks like MK1 driver is less sensitive than MK2. Both have a unique and nice signature - MK1 takes sometime getting used to; MK2 is great from the go .



I like the mk.2,but I absolutely love the mk.1 rev2, at the moment anyway!  Still burning in mk.2 though.
Ymmv.


----------



## snip3r77

capnjack said:


> You are in for a treat! They’re both absolutely brilliant buds, i find the mk.1 extends a bit more at either end, but it needs a touch more volume. Happy listening, if she’ll let you!



How does it compares to PT1 / Graphene?
DO they have a fun sig?


----------



## capnjack

snip3r77 said:


> How does it compares to PT1 / Graphene?
> DO they have a fun sig?


Sorry, no idea as don’t own either, but I’d say hell yes it’s a fun sig! (I’m no bass-head tho)


----------



## Guggga

Listening to some Pink Floyd on the mk1 rev 2 today while watching The Conjuring on TV.

The layering of the sounds in  the mids is staggering, instruments and vocals well placed and the bass goes deep without drowning anything else out, very airy and crunchy sound.

Its a mouthwatering experience.


----------



## 40760

Replacement MK3 should be shipped by this weekend and meanwhile MK2 is still stuck with the post office...

Hopefully the MK2 will be delivered tomorrow to curb the withdrawal...


----------



## kurtextrem

I'll summon the TOTL-buyer now:
What do you guys think is the best one of those: K's Black Ling (249$ +-), MoonDrop Liebesleid (299$), Simphonio Dragon 2+ (319$) in terms of price-performance?
Does the Black Ling even come close to Dragon 2+? I'm looking for an upgrade to Penon BS1 / TO400s (/ Shozy BK).


----------



## Chifi

hello

can anyone confirm if these **** PT15 are indeed 2018 version and not old 2016? link on aliexpress: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...or-DJ-Studio-Stereo-Earphone/32866622060.html

thank you


----------



## Carrow

@seanc6441 Have you got a link to anywhere selling the K's Poseidon bc I've got nothing, hahah. Not that I could afford them currently but I literally have no idea where is selling them!


----------



## seanc6441

Carrow said:


> @seanc6441 Have you got a link to anywhere selling the K's Poseidon bc I've got nothing, hahah. Not that I could afford them currently but I literally have no idea where is selling them!


https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32845...00_0109&spm=a2g0n.search-amp.list.32845876247

Very pricey in retail price but it cannot hurt to look right


----------



## Carrow

seanc6441 said:


> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32845...00_0109&spm=a2g0n.search-amp.list.32845876247
> 
> Very pricey in retail price but it cannot hurt to look right



Is that them? I thought the Ling. Black Ling and Poseidon were all different buds?


----------



## seanc6441

Carrow said:


> Is that them? I thought the Ling. Black Ling and Poseidon were all different buds?


That's the black ling yeah, poseidon has an open vent on the back in the shape of a trident and it has a silver/gold or platinum shell.

The lings are brass, the white is shiny silver and the black is a shiny gunmetal gray finish.


----------



## Carrow

seanc6441 said:


> That's the black ling yeah, poseidon has an open vent on the back in the shape of a trident and it has a silver/gold or platinum shell.
> 
> The lings are brass, the white is shiny silver and the black is a shiny gunmetal gray finish.



Open vent on an earbud? Issa yikes - I like having maybe a little isolation (as much as you get with most of these things anyway); do the Poseidons leak much sound or would I be better off getting a Ling if in the market for a TOTL K's bud?


----------



## margroth

Carrow said:


> Open vent on an earbud? Issa yikes - I like having maybe a little isolation (as much as you get with most of these things anyway); do the Poseidons leak much sound or would I be better off getting a Ling if in the market for a TOTL K's bud?



Sorry to spoil your fun, but I recently messaged the seller and he said the Poseidon was no longer for sale


----------



## Carrow

margroth said:


> Sorry to spoil your fun, but I recently messaged the seller and he said the Poseidon was no longer for sale



Well that sucks, are they just not being produced anymore?

*Insert Greek mythology pun here*


----------



## margroth

Carrow said:


> Well that sucks, are they just not being produced anymore?
> 
> *Insert Greek mythology pun here*



He mentioned how he had only made those for close friends. They were on sale for a brief period of time and ClieOS got one of those, but I guess he no longer makes those


----------



## Carrow

margroth said:


> He mentioned how he had only made those for close friends. They were on sale for a brief period of time and ClieOS got one of those, but I guess he no longer makes those



looks like @seanc6441 timed his purchase pretty damn well if so - they're no longer K's flagship model it seems, oh well


----------



## margroth

Carrow said:


> looks like @seanc6441 timed his purchase pretty damn well if so - they're no longer K's flagship model it seems, oh well



Nah, I think the K's Lings are both up, just the Poseidon is no longer for sale, probably due to limited resources and buyers I assume


----------



## seanc6441 (May 16, 2018)

Carrow said:


> looks like @seanc6441 timed his purchase pretty damn well if so - they're no longer K's flagship model it seems, oh well


Yes the Lings are not limited like the Poseidon AFAIK. I'm sure they will still be available during the next sale even.

I did  time it well on account of it being on sale though, the rrp is too pricey on these, you do pay it seems for the brass shell and gold silver plated cable and not just the SQ alone. I feel like the sale price I paid is about represetive of the SQ.


----------



## Carrow

Backplate popped off my Masya (just the one), I can just superglue that back on right?


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> I can't check the mojito right now, but you could try listening to live binaural recordings and check if the soundstage "meets" in the middle/in front of our face between the left and right ears ( i usually use this Amber Rubarth's song to check )
> 
> a good cans should produce a complete circular /oval soundstage. I suspect the Ling has this.



Will do so  I'll let you know when I test it!


----------



## seanc6441

Carrow said:


> Open vent on an earbud? Issa yikes - I like having maybe a little isolation (as much as you get with most of these things anyway); do the Poseidons leak much sound or would I be better off getting a Ling if in the market for a TOTL K's bud?


Most earbuds have an open vent, it still have a filter on it I'm sure. What I meant was that the lings are not vented at all on the back. Only through the stem. So with thin foams you get enough air but will thicker foams it's like a closed back sound and creates pressure in the ear with its strong bass. Some like thins feeling, I do not.


----------



## seanc6441

Carrow said:


> Backplate popped off my Masya (just the one), I can just superglue that back on right?


Oh dear that's concerning :S , I'm sure you can though as it's purely for aesthetics.


----------



## Carrow

seanc6441 said:


> Oh dear that's concerning :S , I'm sure you can though as it's purely for aesthetics.



Sorted it, thanks


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Chifi said:


> hello
> 
> can anyone confirm if these **** PT15 are indeed 2018 version and not old 2016? link on aliexpress: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...or-DJ-Studio-Stereo-Earphone/32866622060.html
> 
> thank you


Well, it says 2018, so it is. I own the 2016 version and this isn't it.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

chinmie said:


> I like the PT15 more with SE cables..


Which cables? Is that the 2016 or 2018 version?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

subwoof3r said:


> Just received today my *NiceHCK DIY PK2*, and couldn't resist for a quick first listen to work with VE full extra thin foams, but was immediately disapointed by the sound. As they sound out of the box, I guess they even don't deserve to get on my burning desk, as I really doubt they will change with time.
> Definitely, Willsound MK2/MK1 sounds like a TOTL compared to these. Outch!


I'm sorry, <3. I'm starting to think copper cables are part of the problem. I heard the same for the Moondrop Nameless.


----------



## seanc6441 (May 16, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm sorry, <3. I'm starting to think copper cables are part of the problem. I heard the same for the Moondrop Nameless.


It's most likely the tuning of the driver. Copper cables are used in all sorts of high end audio and the driver is the main determining factor of the final sound.

My Ling and Shozy BK both use copper cables and they sound completey different.

Although one is silver/gold plated copper. So maybe you prefer the qualities of the small nuances of each.


----------



## chinmie

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Which cables? Is that the 2016 or 2018 version?



single ended cables. mine are the older version as they have four vent holes. i ordered the 2018 version too (red color) and it's currently on the way


----------



## golov17

Carrow said:


> @seanc6441 Have you got a link to anywhere selling the K's Poseidon bc I've got nothing, hahah. Not that I could afford them currently but I literally have no idea where is selling them!


https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B076JCHXV6?ref_=mw_olp_product_details


----------



## seanc6441 (May 16, 2018)

golov17 said:


> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B076JCHXV6?ref_=mw_olp_product_details


Funny looking K’s earbud there Golov 

Although I myself thought he said the Ling and sent him that link.

Only realised this now @Carrow  :S


----------



## ClieOS

K's Poseidon is a limited run and no longer in the market. I got confirmation from K that they will not make it again unless you want the custom made gold/platinum version (which is 10x the price of the regular silver version). Otherwise you'll have to find one in the 2nd hand market.


----------



## ctaxxxx

@Carrow 

There's still a Poseidon on eBay for sale.


----------



## golov17

seanc6441 said:


> Funny looking K’s earbud there Golov


Oops ))


----------



## 40760

MK2 out for delivery... Should have it with me soon!


----------



## Carrow

ctaxxxx said:


> @Carrow
> 
> There's still a Poseidon on eBay for sale.



Just 550 of your Earth dollars, yikes.


----------



## snip3r77

palestofwhite said:


> MK2 out for delivery... Should have it with me soon!


$32 shipping inclusive ? If it isnlt then...


----------



## 40760

snip3r77 said:


> $32 shipping inclusive ? If it isnlt then...



Nope... $32 for the Earbuds and another $12 for Registered Mail. EMS should be $24.


----------



## snip3r77

palestofwhite said:


> Nope... $32 for the Earbuds and another $12 for Registered Mail. EMS should be $24.


Thanks . 

Won't buy it no more.

Disparity with local price and one needs to add $12 for shipping. Can one get something better at $44. Definitely I feel


----------



## capnjack

snip3r77 said:


> Thanks .
> 
> Won't buy it no more.
> 
> Disparity with local price and one needs to add $12 for shipping. Can one get something better at $44. Definitely I feel


I doubt you’ll find much better at $40-$50 imho!


----------



## Chifi

chinmie said:


> single ended cables. mine are the older version as they have four vent holes. i ordered the 2018 version too (red color) and it's currently on the way



can you do a quick review once you get them please?


----------



## Zerohour88 (May 17, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> Thanks .
> 
> Won't buy it no more.
> 
> Disparity with local price and one needs to add $12 for shipping. Can one get something better at $44. Definitely I feel



I've no idea about the disparity thing, but I contacted the bukalapak seller you linked here the other day and he quoted me $30 for the Mk2 and $17 shipping (despite being literally one country over). You might just be better off buying from Rholupat.

noped out and just ordered a Toneking TO180 ($45 shipped) to hopefully upgrade my old graphenes


----------



## chinmie (May 17, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> Thanks .
> 
> Won't buy it no more.
> 
> Disparity with local price and one needs to add $12 for shipping. Can one get something better at $44. Definitely I feel





capnjack said:


> I doubt you’ll find much better at $40-$50 imho!



technically you can get something better for your taste in that price range, depends on preference really. i don't think there is an ultimate best for everyone. for me personally, it's my preferred deep bass earbuds, in any price category. it's up there with the Liebesleid (as my preferred detail buds).

i've just ordered the PK32 for curiosity sake, and he would send the MK1, MK2, MK3 and 300 ohm (all rev 2 version in balanced) for me to check out.


----------



## chinmie

Zerohour88 said:


> I've no idea about the disparity thing, but I contacted the bukalapak seller you linked here the other day and he quoted me $30 for the Mk2 and $17 shipping (despite being literally one country over). You might just be better off buying from Rholupat.
> 
> noped out and just ordered a Toneking TO180 ($45 shipped) to hopefully upgrade my old graphenes



that store is one of the dealers that handles sales in other town. this is the official store: 
https://www.tokopedia.com/willsound


----------



## capnjack

chinmie said:


> technically you can get something better for your taste in that price range, depends on preference really. i don't think there is an ultimate best for everyone. for me personally, it's my preferred deep bass earbuds, in any price category. it's up there with the Liebesleid (as my preferred detail buds).
> 
> i've just ordered the PK32 for curiosity sake, and he would send the MK1, MK2, MK3 and 300 ohm (all rev 2 version in balanced) for me to check out.



Sure, I’ve gotta agree with you about that. For me the Willsound buds offer great value for money and they suit may musical taste. As for shipping costs, that’s something you have to factor into your costs/value as well as how much you actually want to hear the item. Obviously buying from the other side of the world and blind is a risk, but in the case of the Willsounds, it was well worth it to me. Ymmv!


----------



## chinmie

capnjack said:


> Sure, I’ve gotta agree with you about that. For me the Willsound buds offer great value for money and they suit may musical taste. As for shipping costs, that’s something you have to factor into your costs/value as well as how much you actually want to hear the item. Obviously buying from the other side of the world and blind is a risk, but in the case of the Willsounds, it was well worth it to me. Ymmv!



yup. and luckily for me, i like them better than even than some TOTL heavy hitters. there are many other famous Indonesian earbud makers like the Q-labs, @mpas, kanzenoka, Raid, etc.. all great sounding the one that suits me the most is Willsound, specifically the MK2. I've heard modded @mpas driver buds that even without foams sounded really big down to the sub bass..alas. it's one of a kind and my friend will never part with it. Willsound however, sounds great stock from the builder and sounds consistent from each product.


----------



## Zerohour88

chinmie said:


> that store is one of the dealers that handles sales in other town. this is the official store:
> https://www.tokopedia.com/willsound



oh, that's nice to know. thanks. Maybe next time if I ever decide to try them out. The TO180 supposedly goes toe to toe with Ourart Ti7 (my other choice that's been recommended by a few people I trust), so I'd probably be happy in terms of bud upgrade.


----------



## capnjack

chinmie said:


> yup. and luckily for me, i like them better than even than some TOTL heavy hitters. there are many other famous Indonesian earbud makers like the Q-labs, @mpas, kanzenoka, Raid, etc.. all great sounding the one that suits me the most is Willsound, specifically the MK2. I've heard modded @mpas driver buds that even without foams sounded really big down to the sub bass..alas. it's one of a kind and my friend will never part with it. Willsound however, sounds great stock from the builder and sounds consistent from each product.



Just messaged the builder of Lamia buds, but got frightened by the price I was quoted! They look the part, but I couldn’t buy blind at that price.


----------



## chinmie

Zerohour88 said:


> oh, that's nice to know. thanks. Maybe next time if I ever decide to try them out. The TO180 supposedly goes toe to toe with Ourart Ti7 (my other choice that's been recommended by a few people I trust), so I'd probably be happy in terms of bud upgrade.



now the Ourart is one of the buds that i want to buy..haven't got a chance to try them. next purchase maybe..



capnjack said:


> Just messaged the builder of Lamia buds, but got frightened by the price I was quoted! They look the part, but I couldn’t buy blind at that price.



he uses pure gold / silver on the buds if i'm not mistaken? that contributes a lot to the high price tag. i never heard anyone give a proper review of them though... i'm more intrigued by the Blur, but strangely not many from my country that has them and gives review


----------



## 40760

chinmie said:


> yup. and luckily for me, i like them better than even than some TOTL heavy hitters. there are many other famous Indonesian earbud makers like the Q-labs, @mpas, kanzenoka, Raid, etc.. all great sounding the one that suits me the most is Willsound, specifically the MK2. I've heard modded @mpas driver buds that even without foams sounded really big down to the sub bass..alas. it's one of a kind and my friend will never part with it. Willsound however, sounds great stock from the builder and sounds consistent from each product.



The MK2 is really something else... I think I can really not buy anything audio related for quite a some time now...


----------



## snip3r77

chinmie said:


> technically you can get something better for your taste in that price range, depends on preference really. i don't think there is an ultimate best for everyone. for me personally, it's my preferred deep bass earbuds, in any price category. it's up there with the Liebesleid (as my preferred detail buds).
> 
> i've just ordered the PK32 for curiosity sake, and he would send the MK1, MK2, MK3 and 300 ohm (all rev 2 version in balanced) for me to check out.



Yeah agree hence I feel it's not so special anymore. 

I just hate it when there is SIGNIFICANT price disparity after one apply the shipping cost. Ali is free, you guys vote with your wallet.


----------



## capnjack

chinmie said:


> now the Ourart is one of the buds that i want to buy..haven't got a chance to try them. next purchase maybe..
> 
> 
> 
> he uses pure gold / silver on the buds if i'm not mistaken? that contributes a lot to the high price tag. i never heard anyone give a proper review of them though... i'm more intrigued by the Blur, but strangely not many from my country that has them and gives review



Strangely, Ive got a pair if his black panther buds inbound at the moment


----------



## chinmie

capnjack said:


> Strangely, Ive got a pair if his black panther buds inbound at the moment



please review them when you got them


----------



## chinmie

Chifi said:


> can you do a quick review once you get them please?



sure do


----------



## Carrow

Updated my signature so y'all know what I have OTW. Love this thread. <3


----------



## seanc6441 (May 17, 2018)

I think now that I have 3 TOTL's with different signatures: Black Ling, Bk 2.5mm and Mojito. Also the budget PT15, DIY PK2 and Monk Lite for more rugged use. I can part with some of my middle buds like Rose Masya and TO400s which now I feel like I have too many to just collect dust. I'm trying not to become an earbud hoarder and move some on so I can try new sounds instead.

In other words, I'm being convinced to hear this Willsound MK2 and maybe MK1 thanks to you guys


----------



## waynes world

Zerohour88 said:


> noped out and just ordered a Toneking TO180 ($45 shipped) to hopefully upgrade my old graphenes



Looking forward to your comparison!



palestofwhite said:


> The MK2 is really something else... I think I can really not buy anything audio related for quite a some time now...



The wait is killing me. This is the last tracking I can find:
2018-05-08 11:20 JAKARTA MPC IDJKTC, Departure from outward OE

I guess that's only a week ago, but it feels like a month lol


----------



## 40760

waynes world said:


> The wait is killing me. This is the last tracking I can find:
> 2018-05-08 11:20 JAKARTA MPC IDJKTC, Departure from outward OE
> 
> I guess that's only a week ago, but it feels like a month lol



I live in the region and it takes about 10 days after it leaves Jakarta to reach my country. I guess yours should be showing up pretty soon!

Too bad I had to mail the MK3 back to Rholupat due to a defect in the Y-splitter, if not I would have both to compare. Their recommended burn in is 20 hours, so I'll have to listen over the next few days to evaluate...  I guess I won't see my replacement MK3 until another few weeks later...


----------



## capnjack

waynes world said:


> Looking forward to your comparison!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mine spent a week like that and then Royal Mail delivered it while it was still showing the same message on 17Track


----------



## groucho69

waynes world said:


> Looking forward to your comparison!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mine showed up 4 weeks+ after that notice


----------



## waynes world

groucho69 said:


> Mine showed up 4 weeks+ after that notice



gr_*OUCH*_o69!!!


----------



## groucho69

Worth the wait


----------



## 40760 (May 17, 2018)

Looks like Will hasn't gotten his supply of red shells yet for the next batch of MK1... guess their production will be delayed...


----------



## Guggga (May 18, 2018)

So today I recovered my zishan z1 from retirement and slapped in some ABGT Group therapy sets, plugged in the MK2 version 1 special edition.

The only way to describe the sound is like watching a tapestry being woven in front of you with eyes closed.

Been using the lg v20 so long now that i forgot how these babies shine given more juice.

The older mk2 isn't as refined as the new version, but it's a raw and powerful punchy person!


----------



## sebastian_bach

chinmie said:


> technically you can get something better for your taste in that price range, depends on preference really. i don't think there is an ultimate best for everyone. for me personally, it's my preferred deep bass earbuds, in any price category. it's up there with the Liebesleid (as my preferred detail buds).
> 
> i've just ordered the PK32 for curiosity sake, and he would send the MK1, MK2, MK3 and 300 ohm (all rev 2 version in balanced) for me to check out.



Can't wait your impression of PK32. It is need a lot of time to burn before it really shine.


----------



## 40760

Guggga said:


> So today I recovered my zishan z1 from retirement and slapped in some ABGT Group therapy sets, plugged in the MK2 version 1 special edition.
> 
> The only way to describe the sound is like watching a tapestry being woven in front of you with eyes closed.
> 
> ...



I'm really liking the MK2 even though it's not fully done with burning-in...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

palestofwhite said:


> Nope... $32 for the Earbuds and another $12 for Registered Mail. EMS should be $24.


The better be super amazing for that price...


----------



## 40760

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The better be super amazing for that price...



Can't speak for the rest here, but I already like them quite a lot better than some of my higher priced earbuds and IEMs...


----------



## capnjack

palestofwhite said:


> Can't speak for the rest here, but I already like them quite a lot better than some of my higher priced earbuds and IEMs...


Got to agree with you about Willsound they sound great ootb and after about 20hrs they’ll be all settled down and sound even better!


----------



## chinmie

sebastian_bach said:


> Can't wait your impression of PK32. It is need a lot of time to burn before it really shine.



yes, willy is sending me an unburned PK32, he wants me to give impressions on the burning process, because another fellow said the sound changes a few times during burn process. ill report later whether if it's true or just placebo effect


----------



## seanc6441

Guggga said:


> So today I recovered my zishan z1 from retirement and slapped in some ABGT Group therapy sets, plugged in the MK2 version 1 special edition.
> 
> The only way to describe the sound is like watching a tapestry being woven in front of you with eyes closed.
> 
> ...


Try using an impendance adapter to get the V20 into high impendance mode. I personally don’t think it offers improved sound quality but it does offer a boost in power. Which may be helpful for your mk2 

The adapters are like $5 I think. Totally worth it and I’ll be grabbing one myself. Once I find the best one to buy.


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> yes, willy is sending me an unburned PK32, he wants me to give impressions on the burning process, because another fellow said the sound changes a few times during burn process. ill report later whether if it's true or just placebo effect


Yep I said I may jump on the mk2 but if this one is as good I’ll 100% go for the comfortable yuin shell.

Will patiently await your impressions.


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> Yep I said I may jump on the mk2 but if this one is as good I’ll 100% go for the comfortable yuin shell.
> 
> Will patiently await your impressions.



According to Adhi: "The PK32 is more for critical listening. It's not as "fun" as the MK series but has more detail and better soundstage."

I'm still deciding between this and the MK1, but I maybe should stop at this point...


----------



## seanc6441

palestofwhite said:


> According to Adhi: "The PK32 is more for critical listening. It's not as "fun" as the MK series but has more detail and better soundstage."
> 
> I'm still deciding between this and the MK1, but I maybe should stop at this point...


Wow sounds even better, but i’ll wait for chinmies impressions too, I have a fair idea of his preference and I also love quality extended treble 

Thanks for the heads up, I’m definitely interested in these!


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> Wow sounds even better, but i’ll wait for chinmies impressions too, I have a fair idea of his preference and I also love quality extended treble
> 
> Thanks for the heads up, I’m definitely interested in these!



I was last quoted $40 for the PK32. They have not listed them on their site though...


----------



## Carrow

My Willsound MK1 Rev. 2 say hello.


----------



## 40760

Carrow said:


> My Willsound MK1 Rev. 2 say hello.



Please talk more about it!


----------



## seanc6441

palestofwhite said:


> I was last quoted $40 for the PK32. They have not listed them on their site though...


That’s encouraging that it’s priced slightly higher but not ridiculously so. I can only hope that means it’s slightly better but we’ll see what chinmie thinks haha


----------



## Carrow

palestofwhite said:


> Please talk more about it!



I don't have access to my main DAP at the moment but I'm sampling some tracks via my laptop and there is a LOT of bass. Pretty much what you'd want from the likes of this, from Rolling Blackouts Coastal Fever:


----------



## seanc6441 (May 18, 2018)

TO400s + balanced output + VE donut foams = audio bliss

I’m really surprised how much more neutral these sound in balanced with the 300mw output of my R6. But they haven’t got the bright hint I enjoy in my other buds at the top end.

It’s not a very coloured sound at all, almost fully analytical so maybe not the most exciting in the bass or vocals.

But it’s very honest, tight and detailed all over. The thick donuts really do help bring out the bass though. also keeping the slightly harsh mid to treble in check.

It seems a very good seal is essential with these buds, they sound anemic without it in the bass and low mids.

Although if you don’t plan on running them balanced or through a powerful source in my opinion they are nothing to right home about. So keep that in mind when you consider the price of the buds and a balanced cable


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

palestofwhite said:


> Please talk more about it!


"I can't believe this guy put a couple green hats on me, I look so stupid now. I hope he never takes a selfie again."


----------



## RuFrost

With the laptop and BB Classic Q20 by themselves, I just could not understand why does bs1 official is hyped so much. Well, aks 1305p and BL with adapter and cable from printer (blue usb cable is fine, but in the end of the day sucks) make me understand. The action is going on in the body of earbuds itself and pouring out to the listener's ear. Good instrumental separation and amount of the air in the sound's picture. Soundstage is wide and have enough depth. Works for all musical genres. The 3d tumbler is usually on - extensions through the whole frequency' spectrum are better in this case. You actually start to feel how the music surrounds you. Instrumental music (the most complicated to be played on daps, dac\amps etc...groups such as "really slow motion", "two steps from hell", "audio machine" etc...) plays righly. BS1's presentation is very natural, balanced and very "living-like" experience. 
BS1 official puts you on the scene, in the centre of the band playing music. You like the spirit put in the middle of music. Bass is there, you feel it and it is quite speedy, but not hitting you nor punch in your face (I like to turn on extra bass tumblr of BL - it elevates a little bit, but very politely, without ruining or crossing the mids and highs). Voices are gentle and pleasant. Sounds really close to you (though it depends on composition and how close the singer moved to recorder). Positioning and virtual scene is good and accurate. Detalization is of high quality. Mids are airy and very round. No sharpness at all. Sincerely saying, due to its pleasant sound signature, it is hard to move from them to different earbuds. Though, Diomnes LV2 being pressed to the ear is still unbeatable by anything I have heard so far among all headphones. Bs1 official for 100$ is a real deal and would say even a steal. (I bought them used...so the price was even better for me) 
P.s: What a wonderful age in terms of technological development we are living in! Though, all this "progress" is usually used for the evil's benefit and done for the price of irrevocable killing our environments and molesting our souls, as we become as egoistic, selfish, prideful as hardly imaginable and it is not even bottom yet.


----------



## cqtek (May 18, 2018)

Today I received the Yincrow RW-9 purchased here:

https://es.aliexpress.com/store/pro...arbud-Metal-Earphone/1825606_32869066191.html

I appreciate that the packaging is original, although simple, it comes very well protected in its foam mold.
It's accompanied by a synthetic leather case, although nice, inefficient (I prefer the typical zippered box).
I chose the red color to distinguish them among so many of MX500 capsules that I have. I would have preferred the use of another type of capsule because I find it quite uncomfortable because of its large size.
On the other hand I really like the red braided cable and the transparent L-connector.
My first impressions after a couple of hours of listening:
They are the first Yincrow I have and as far as I can read their predecessors are characterized by a bass profile.
The RW-9 also have a powerful low range, although its profile is not so V-shaped because the mids are more advanced, for example, than the Vido.
The treble is soft, it is not a bright earbud, nor is it characterized by great detail or great separation. But it has a very complete, full and enjoyable vocal range. In my opinion they aren't dark, are natural.
Actually I can not say much negative about these earbuds because they have a profile that I like, warm, they have bass, the voices are present and they are natural, they aren't muddy or nasal, and the treble are soft.
It would only add more separation and more detail. But it is something similar to the profile of the Fiio FH1 that I also own, the cut in treble causes those deficiencies.

Of course full foam and donut does not help gain detail and transparency, but it does help me hold these big capsules in my ears.


----------



## seanc6441 (May 18, 2018)

RuFrost said:


> With the laptop and BB Classic Q20 by themselves, I just could not understand why does bs1 official is hyped so much. Well, aks 1305p and BL with adapter and cable from printer (blue usb cable is fine, but in the end of the day sucks) make me understand. The action is going on in the body of earbuds itself and pouring out to the listener's ear. Good instrumental separation and amount of the air in the sound's picture. Soundstage is wide and have enough depth. Works for all musical genres. The 3d tumbler is usually on - extensions through the whole frequency' spectrum are better in this case. You actually start to feel how the music surrounds you. Instrumental music (the most complicated to be played on daps, dac\amps etc...groups such as "really slow motion", "two steps from hell", "audio machine" etc...) plays righly. BS1's presentation is very natural, balanced and very "living-like" experience.
> BS1 official puts you on the scene, in the centre of the band playing music. You like the spirit put in the middle of music. Bass is there, you feel it and it is quite speedy, but not hitting you nor punch in your face (I like to turn on extra bass tumblr of BL - it elevates a little bit, but very politely, without ruining or crossing the mids and highs). Voices are gentle and pleasant. Sounds really close to you (though it depends on composition and how close the singer moved to recorder). Positioning and virtual scene is good and accurate. Detalization is of high quality. Mids are airy and very round. No sharpness at all. Sincerely saying, due to its pleasant sound signature, it is hard to move from them to different earbuds. Though, Diomnes LV2 being pressed to the ear is still unbeatable by anything I have heard so far among all headphones. Bs1 official for 100$ is a real deal and would say even a steal. (I bought them used...so the price was even better for me)
> P.s: What a wonderful age in terms of technological development we are living in! Though, all this "progress" is usually used for the evil's benefit and done for the price of irrevocable killing our environments and molesting our souls, as we become as egoistic, selfish, prideful as hardly imaginable and it is not even bottom yet.


The bass is very intimate, but requires a perfect fit to get the really quality and dynamics, the treble is pushed wider and very naturally airy especially with jazz you can hear how well portrayed the sax is.

I completely understand people not understanding the praise at first or if the fit seal and pairing isn't worked on. But I do think they can be really special under the right circumstances. I wish my ears were a little bigger to get a perfect seal with hiegi or thicker foam on these bud even as it stands I can work 90% of the SQ by over ear + trying different foam combos. Vocals get really euphoric with the right seal too.

Infact, if im wishing for things I wish I could transplant these drivers into a 'black ling' type/size metal shell and lighten the cable by 20%... Because I honestly think these drivers are under optimised for most medium to small ears with this shell shape and heavy cable pulling the seal loose.

I would pay $150 for these if they had a highly erogonomic metal shell design and took the cable weight down to reasonable levels...

How crazy would it be for me to sand it down myself?... I may just be mad enough to try that lol!


----------



## ClieOS

cqtek said:


> Today I received the Yincrow RW-9 purchased here:



Have this for a couple of days now. It can be sum'ed up as the "improved Yincrow X6", mainly you still get a slightly V-shaped sound from the X6, but with a better textured and forwarded midrange, making it the most balanced of all tuning in the whole Yincrow's line-up. In fact, I think I like it ever better then RW-777 - given it is actually cheaper than RW-777, I think Yincrow has gotten itself a winner here.


----------



## doggiemom

Guggga said:


> Listening to some Pink Floyd on the mk1 rev 2 today while watching The Conjuring on TV.
> 
> The layering of the sounds in  the mids is staggering, instruments and vocals well placed and the bass goes deep without drowning anything else out, very airy and crunchy sound.
> 
> Its a mouthwatering experience.


you should watch dark side of the moon with wizard of oz!


----------



## chinmie

doggiemom said:


> you should watch dark side of the moon with wizard of oz!



Return to Oz is one of the most traumatic movies I've ever seen. The creature designs are messed up


----------



## golov17

best adapter from Astrotec, recommend


----------



## subwoof3r

Carrow said:


> My Willsound MK1 Rev. 2 say hello.


Glad they finally arrived!
Don't forget, they are already fully burned, just plug and enjoy 
They already miss me a lot but as I still have MK2 rev2, it's OK ^^



golov17 said:


> best adapter from Astrotec, recommend


Where did you buyed it ? looks interesting


----------



## HungryPanda

I bought the Fiio L26 2.5mm balanced to 3.5 SE and it works for me


----------



## seanc6441 (May 19, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> I bought the Fiio L26 2.5mm balanced to 3.5 SE and it works for me


was just about to say I prefer the idea of that one with the short flexi cable rather than making a very awkward plug. But different designs for different folks


----------



## golov17

@subwoof3r 
Astrotec Brand New Gold plated Brass 2.5mm 4 Pole Female to 3.5 mm 3 Pole /4.4 mm 5 Pole Male Universal Converter Adapter
http://s.aliexpress.com/22yAbA7f


----------



## snip3r77

golov17 said:


> @subwoof3r
> Astrotec Brand New Gold plated Brass 2.5mm 4 Pole Female to 3.5 mm 3 Pole /4.4 mm 5 Pole Male Universal Converter Adapter
> http://s.aliexpress.com/22yAbA7f


Is there a balanced xlr to balanced 2.5mm converter ?


----------



## golov17

snip3r77 said:


> Is there a balanced xlr to balanced 2.5mm converter ?


just check link


----------



## haiku

New Semdataudio Equinox. Beautifully build, champions league sound. Check them out!


----------



## haiku

http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone/equinox.html


----------



## daid1

haiku said:


> New Semdataudio Equinox. Beautifully build, champions league sound. Check them out!



please, if you have the others Willsound, can you compare them? I have to decide which earbud buy from Rholupat


----------



## 424358

I’ve had my monk lite 40ohms for a bit now. I really love them. So much that I don’t really want to upgrade.

Shocker actually.

I’ve been on the search for the perfect iem for a long time. Still on the hunt between KZs. ZS6 are currently the king but I’m falling towards a less V shape signature.

 I tried the monk+ before the monk lite and instantly chose the lite.


----------



## snip3r77

misterchao said:


> I’ve had my monk lite 40ohms for a bit now. I really love them. So much that I don’t really want to upgrade.
> 
> Shocker actually.
> 
> ...


What earbud do you have as reference?


----------



## capnjack

The Black Panther has landed ! !


----------



## activatorfly

capnjack said:


> The Black Panther has landed ! !


What buds are those?


----------



## seanc6441

capnjack said:


> The Black Panther has landed ! !


Blur earbud?


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> Blur earbud?



Looks like it based on the copper coiled Y-splitter...


----------



## seanc6441 (May 20, 2018)

One down, one to go!



Looks the same size in the picture but actually it's about 1m smaller in diameter. Fits more comfortably and seals best with heigi full foam now. No pressure on the ear with these foams like before.


----------



## haiku

Kanzenoka Parangtritis. Excellent separation of vocals and instruments, pace, rhythm and timing among the best I´ve heard so far. Clear and clean treble, very clean mids. For lovers of jazz it´s a dream come true, but for all other genres it sounds also superb. A steal for the price.


----------



## capnjack (May 20, 2018)

activatorfly said:


> What buds are those?



They’re a Wong Kwan Wae creation/mod of I think a Docomo earbud that I believe is available in China only at the moment.     
So yes , @seanc6441 you called it right they’re a Blur!


----------



## activatorfly

capnjack said:


> They’re a Wong Kwan Wae creation/mod of I think a Docomo earbud that I believe is available in China only at the moment.
> So yes , @seanc6441 you called it right they’re a Blur!


Thanks!...thought I recognised them lol! Wish they were available in the UK!


----------



## cathee

seanc6441 said:


> One down, one to go!
> 
> 
> 
> Looks the same size in the picture but actually it's about 1m smaller in diameter. Fits more comfortably and seals best with heigi full foam now. No pressure on the ear with these foams like before.



What exactly are you doing with your BS1s here? Love the sound sig when it's wedged correctly but having major fit issues...


----------



## toear

cathee said:


> What exactly are you doing with your BS1s here? Love the sound sig when it's wedged correctly but having major fit issues...


I believe he is reshaping the bell to reduce the size. I did the same thing recently with some emx500 shells. It's not the front of the bud that sits closest to your ear drum that is the problem. It is the area in the back closest to the wire that presses against the outer ear... This is where my ears hurt when the shell is too big ..


----------



## toear (May 20, 2018)

Here is a pic of the reshaped shells


----------



## vladstef

toear said:


> Here is a pic of the reshaped shells



I also had some experiences with sanding MX shells (front part in particular). They are a disaster to clean afterwards because a lot of the fine particles ends up in the vent holes - possibly some in the damping material that can't really be removed. Front holes are fine, everything that enters can easily leave afterwards and these membranes are not sensitive to extremely small particles.

I keep wishing for earbuds that could easily be modified and it's not happening. Problem is as always, drivers that are glued in the front plastic - these are often very hard to remove, almost always results in a broken front cover or broken coil wires. Broken front covers are easy to replace though.


----------



## capnjack

activatorfly said:


> Thanks!...thought I recognised them lol! Wish they were available in the UK!


They are if you contact Wong through Facebook and private mssg him (Earbuds Anonymous group) that’s how I got mine from him directly.


----------



## seanc6441

cathee said:


> What exactly are you doing with your BS1s here? Love the sound sig when it's wedged correctly but having major fit issues...


oh you don’t wanna know... Let’s just say it involves sandpaper and the will to devalue your earbuds 

Basically I’ve sanded the edges down a bit but sadly the back piece is actually metal so it won’t sand much but the other part is plastic and easily can be take down.

I tried my best to keep the form of the earbud by sanding at two angles first then finish with a flat sand to remove any rough edges.

It’s actually more comfortable now despite only being 1mm less in diameter. I think that was just enough to take pressure off my ear.


----------



## seanc6441 (May 20, 2018)

toear said:


> I believe he is reshaping the bell to reduce the size. I did the same thing recently with some emx500 shells. It's not the front of the bud that sits closest to your ear drum that is the problem. It is the area in the back closest to the wire that presses against the outer ear... This is where my ears hurt when the shell is too big ..


This guy knows his stuff. Usually you don’t wanna mess with the curve of the front at all,  it’s tuned to sound well with that face surface. But if you can take some off the back or back-top it’s ideal to reduce the bulky earbuds.

I barely sanded the front to keep the general dimensions the same but took most of the sanding off the back and top.


----------



## handwander

You know some design changes are needed in the earbud industry when people are taking sandpaper to try and create a comfortable experience


----------



## seanc6441

handwander said:


> You know some design changes are needed in the earbud industry when people are taking sandpaper to try and create a comfortable experience


Asian people typically have smaller ears yet most earbud manufacturered in Asia are oversized... Strange indeed.

Especially when we have foams to increase the size too, most of us don’t need large shells and for the people who do there is the foams and silicone rings...


----------



## activatorfly

handwander said:


> You know some design changes are needed in the earbud industry when people are taking sandpaper to try and create a comfortable experience


Especially considering they're $100! ...re-considering buying these - poor fit and a heavy cable could be deal-breakers?...despite the wonderful sound signature.


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> Asian people typically have smaller ears yet most earbud manufacturered in Asia are oversized... Strange indeed.
> 
> Especially when we have foams to increase the size too, most of us don’t need large shells and for the people who do there is the foams and silicone rings...


Veering more towards buying the Ling's now...I mainly listen to electronica/soundscapes/indie/female vocals etc. Hence, I'd like a wide/holophonic sound-stage with accurate image layering, transparent mids & sufficient sub-bass.


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> Asian people typically have smaller ears yet most earbud manufacturered in Asia are oversized... Strange indeed.
> 
> Especially when we have foams to increase the size too, most of us don’t need large shells and for the people who do there is the foams and silicone rings...


Btw what balanced amp do you use? - I have Walnut F1 & V3 with my (balanced) Masya, which definitely improves upon SE.

Also how comfortable are the metal casings of the Lings? - as I find Nameless VX Pro buds kinda heavy in ear....After trying out the VX, I bought three pairs of Seahf earbuds & subsequently Faaeal Narcissus 2.0 (300ohm) & Snow-lotus 2.0 (64ohm.)

The latter two (with HG donuts) are my go to all rounder buds with powered amp & mobile DAP sources - their sound signature suits my listening preferences. Maybe the Lings seem to be the best option to achieve the next TOTL level?


----------



## snip3r77

Any comparison between willsound my 2 and 3 ? Minute difference ?


----------



## seanc6441 (May 20, 2018)

activatorfly said:


> Btw what balanced amp do you use? - I have Walnut F1 & V3 with my (balanced) Masya, which definitely improves upon SE.
> 
> Also how comfortable are the metal casings of the Lings? - as I find Nameless VX Pro buds kinda heavy in ear....After trying out the VX, I bought three pairs of Seahf earbuds & subsequently Faaeal Narcissus 2.0 (300ohm) & Snow-lotus 2.0 (64ohm.)
> 
> The latter two (with HG donuts) are my go to all rounder buds with powered amp & mobile DAP sources - their sound signature suits my listening preferences. Maybe the Lings seem to be the best option to achieve the next TOTL level?


Lings are supremely comfortable for me. The shape is like a bell but the size is compact, fits my medium to smaller ears so well.

The weight isn’t an issue for me, because it’s distributed in the ear and the cable is very light, so it’s not pulling down at all.

I notice them in my ear so not like PK shell where you forget about them, but comfort wise they are just as comfortable.

Now here is where the issue for me becomes obvious. The bass is so strong that  I was feeling too much pressure with regular or donut foams included. The size/shape was too good a fit for my ear so it was a good seal and the bass pressure was too strong.

Solution for darker/warmer sources is the aliexpress thin foams. Bass becomes perfect, tight and punchy and deep but not boomy or over pressuring thanks to the loose seal of these foams. I advise against this on brighter or neutral sources, because they will be very bright as this earbud has a high level of brightness in the mids and treble as the tuning is V leaning, the dip being just above the mid bass and raises at mids and treble.

If your source if neutral or brighter like my V20 the only solution I’ve found so far is something very unique all together. But it’s more diy stuff than stock foams so i don’t recommend it unless they already bought this earbud and need a ‘fix’.

The earbud itself is amazing, I don’t usually like V shape but this is V shape done almost perfectly (except for upper mid being too bright). It’s vocals are still foward and full bodied and the dip is not too noticeable at all. Soundstage is pretty effortless and imaging is very 3D with excellent depth layering.

I wish I had a dark source to try these on with thin foams, because they match so well with this foam but my poor ears cannot handle it on my V20... and I’m NOT that treble sensitive to begin with.

I find them to sound excellent in SE (the only option). I don’t feel the need to change the soundstage at all. It’s both intimate and spacious and extends effortlessly. Not the biggest or widest in the TOTL tier I’d imagine but wide and deep in comparison to many other earbuds.


----------



## margroth

seanc6441 said:


> Lings are supremely comfortable for me. The shape is like a bell but the size is compact, fits my medium to smaller ears so well.
> 
> The weight isn’t an issue for me, because it’s distributed in the ear and the cable is very light, so it’s not pulling down at all.
> 
> ...



Ah, more bass - this could be the perfect bud for my LG G6


----------



## seanc6441

margroth said:


> Ah, more bass - this could be the perfect bud for my LG G6



Maybe, these will make any source sound satisfactory in the bass department


----------



## haiku

Ndoro Bey V1. Very special earbud.


----------



## chaiyuta

@haiku : Between Equinox and Ndoro BEY V.1, which one is your liking most?


----------



## haiku (May 21, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> @haiku : Between Equinox and Ndoro BEY V.1, which one is your liking most?



They´re both champions league, chaiyuta. Each with it´s own sound sig . No winner here. You need an amp for the Equinox though. Just buy them. It´s definitely a safe bet.


----------



## 40760

haiku said:


> They´re both champions league, chaiyuta. Each with it´s own sound sig . No winner here. Just buy them. It´s definitely a safe bet.



More love for Indonesian earbuds!

My replacement MK3 will be shipped back to me alongside a Willsound PK32...


----------



## haiku

palestofwhite said:


> More love for Indonesian earbuds!
> 
> My replacement MK3 will be shipped back to me alongside a Willsound PK32...



Congrats! Yeah, indonesian earbuds sound amazing. I also have balanced MK3 here, but have not listened so far.


----------



## 40760

haiku said:


> Congrats! Yeah, indonesian earbuds sound amazing. I also have balanced MK3 here, but have not listened so far.



Are the 2.5mm options actually balanced versions of the earbuds @ Rholupat store? They share the same images as their 3.5mm counterparts and the descriptions doesn't say much about their specs.
That being said, I have no balanced sources or amps to play with, so I'm all 3.5mm ATM...


----------



## chaiyuta

May you share their sound sig?


----------



## chinmie

haiku said:


> Congrats! Yeah, indonesian earbuds sound amazing. I also have balanced MK3 here, but have not listened so far.



yup, and also don't forget the Thailand earbuds, they also pack a punch for their price. i haven't have the luck to hear the Vietnamese and Philippines earbuds yet though


----------



## haiku

chinmie said:


> yup, and also don't forget the Thailand earbuds, they also pack a punch for their price. i haven't have the luck to hear the Vietnamese and Philippines earbuds yet though



Got recommendations for thailand earbuds, chinmie?


----------



## haiku

palestofwhite said:


> Are the 2.5mm options actually balanced versions of the earbuds @ Rholupat store? They share the same images as their 3.5mm counterparts and the descriptions doesn't say much about their specs.
> That being said, I have no balanced sources or amps to play with, so I'm all 3.5mm ATM...



Yup, they´re balanced.


----------



## haiku

chaiyuta said:


> May you share their sound sig?



When I have the time, sure. The Bey V1 take all my attention at the moment though, bro!


----------



## golov17

Sunrise SW-Dragon II (SWD2) SR120 120ohm High Fidelity Quality Professional Earphones Earbuds
http://s.aliexpress.com/E3AzERrE


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> Lings are supremely comfortable for me. The shape is like a bell but the size is compact, fits my medium to smaller ears so well.
> 
> The weight isn’t an issue for me, because it’s distributed in the ear and the cable is very light, so it’s not pulling down at all.
> 
> ...


Thanks! I already have the thin Ali foams to try out. Plus, in future, should I need to convert the Lings to balanced - I've previously made up cables with 2.5mm trrs plugs. Hence, the extended 3D soundstage swings it for me instead of opting for BS1...


----------



## chinmie

haiku said:


> Got recommendations for thailand earbuds, chinmie?



I've only have tried a couple of blox, V master, and Neosound Soul. the V master tuning is not my preference (not bad at all though), Neo Soul is eerily similar sounding to MK2, but a bit smoother across the freq


----------



## seanc6441 (May 21, 2018)

activatorfly said:


> Especially considering they're $100! ...re-considering buying these - poor fit and a heavy cable could be deal-breakers?...despite the wonderful sound signature.


That’s the issue, you can find other earbuds with wonderful sound that don’t have these issues...

The fit issue is no worse than your typical mx500 shell, it may even be better for some. But the fact that the SQ is completely reliant on the fit means the shell and cable needed to be perfect.

I cut a thin foam into a ‘disk’ to put under a regular full foam to make to thick and seal better. It’s working wonders for the bass and fit but this shouldn’t be necessary to get a good fit... Even heigi foams weren’t doing it for me bass wise.

So if you don’t enjoy having to mod your earbuds out of box, maybe pass...

As for the ling mids, I’m not sure if I’d call them completely transparent. They definitely have coloured sounding upper mids, it’s quite bright. The vocal region is also a little brighter but sounds natural to me. I guess I consider natural to be anything close to neutral than dead neutral because shozk bk is slightly darker leaning but sounds natural and these are definitely brighter leaning but vocals sound honest and realistic.

The upper mids have a peak that can be really evident on certain tracks but this may be a result of being paired with the V20.

I still think a darker souce and aliexpress thin foams is the ideal solution. These sound ridiculously transparent and airy with those foams but never sacrifice on a solid and deep bass response. Best of both worlds.


----------



## minnyB

Hi, can anyone pls help me to find info on this Victor "old stock" earbuds?


----------



## seanc6441

minnyB said:


> Hi, can anyone pls help me to find info on this Victor "old stock" earbuds?


Think someone on the facebook group ‘earbuds anonymous’ posted about those. You could look there.


----------



## cathee

After a week of diligent and disciplined burning in (more superstitious than scientific I suppose), finally listening to the Cypherus Audio buds I picked up.

If there's an interest, would be happy to share my impressions on the sound/experience of ordering.


----------



## chinmie

cathee said:


> After a week of diligent and disciplined burning in (more superstitious than scientific I suppose), finally listening to the Cypherus Audio buds I picked up.
> 
> If there's an interest, would be happy to share my impressions on the sound/experience of ordering.



Please do share! I always love reading reviews and impressions


----------



## capnjack

I hate this hobby, there’s always one more bud you gotta try/get! 
Received Black Panther from Wong Kwan Wae last week, and now I’ve got the Blur White Chocolate ordered! 
Now My poor wallet hates me as well!


----------



## seanc6441

capnjack said:


> I hate this hobby, there’s always one more bud you gotta try/get!
> Received Black Panther from Wong Kwan Wae last week, and now I’ve got the Blur White Chocolate ordered!
> Now My poor wallet hates me as well!


I take it you liked the panther then? Any impressions to share?


----------



## gazzington

capnjack said:


> I hate this hobby, there’s always one more bud you gotta try/get!
> Received Black Panther from Wong Kwan Wae last week, and now I’ve got the Blur White Chocolate ordered!
> Now My poor wallet hates me as well!


I've just ordered black Panthers from him too. I also already own his original chocolate in 4.4. Great earbuds


----------



## Carrow

subwoof3r said:


> Glad they finally arrived!
> Don't forget, they are already fully burned, just plug and enjoy
> 
> They already miss me a lot but as I still have MK2 rev2, it's OK ^^



I was going to say - there was a lot more bass OOTB than I had expected so I was wondering if you'd spent enough time with them before selling them on; they're sounding great, enjoy the MK2 Rev 2!


----------



## astenlet

My Custom CAX Zoomfred with pentacon 4.4 and different tuning than normal Zoomfred.


----------



## seanc6441

astenlet said:


> My Custom CAX Zoomfred with pentacon 4.4 and different tuning than normal Zoomfred.


Cypherus tuned it differently? Or did you mod it yourself.


----------



## astenlet

Yes Cypherus tune it for me. The difference is is reduce warm but increase in detail, seperation and more soundstage on my ear. The reduction in the warm does not reduce the bass extension and the impact though. The final sound is not settle since i am only about 100hours of burn in.


----------



## subwoof3r

Carrow said:


> I was going to say - there was a lot more bass OOTB than I had expected so I was wondering if you'd spent enough time with them before selling them on; they're sounding great, enjoy the MK2 Rev 2!


hehe 
They received something like almost 200 hours of proper burning (pink noise at high volume and various songs at normal volume), but real spending time with them was something like only approx 6 hours. After the burning they definitely gained mids and details in highs. But compared to MK2 rev2 I found them a bit lacking of highs, looks like MK1 has a slight roll-off in the treble, but clearly I more enjoyed the soundstage and overall instrument separation on MK1. It has a unique soundstage for an earbuds.
Like someone else said here (and which I agree), MK2 is more an on-the-go earbud, while MK1 needs some brain settle to really appreciate them  but after that period, MK1 sounded a bit more coherent than MK2.
I was hesitating to move to MK3 but finally I will wait for some PK32 impressions before choosing 
I really enjoy "fun" and detailed "on the go" earbuds with good soundstage and slight V shaped sounding.

Btw, NiceHCK DIY PK2 has gained much with the burning process, @Guggga @seanc6441 you guys were right, it needs a lot of burning before apprecating them. Bass finally woke up, more details and mids are now more refined. I begin to enjoy them a bit (even if it's still not my sound taste for what I listen, but for jazz, vocals, piano, guitar etc, it's a must have in our earbuds collection. I still listen to them with heigi donut foams for now, as I don't have talent for cutting foams, haha)


----------



## capnjack

seanc6441 said:


> I take it you liked the panther then? Any impressions to share?


Maybe in a few days time when I’ve done a little more listening.


----------



## capnjack

gazzington said:


> I've just ordered black Panthers from him too. I also already own his original chocolate in 4.4. Great earbuds


I think you’ll like them.   What impedance Chocolate?


----------



## gazzington

capnjack said:


> I think you’ll like them.   What impedance Chocolate?


32ohm. They sound lovely with my zx300 using 4.4.


----------



## capnjack

gazzington said:


> 32ohm. They sound lovely with my zx300 using 4.4.


You’re making me impatient for my White Chocolate 150ohm to arrive now 
I think the B.P. is a modified Docomo bud, I’m not sure about it, but they seem only to be available in China. As I say I’m not sure, but they do look very alike.


----------



## capnjack (May 21, 2018)

@seanc6441 The Black Panther seems to be nicely balanced across the spectrum, perhaps a little rolled off in the treble. Sort of a relaxed, long listening session type bud that is nicely detailed from the bass all the way up to a slightly rolled off top end. The mids are nicely placed with the vocals front and centre. ymmv.
They’ve got about 5-6 hrs on them at the moment.
They also feel slightly smaller than mx500 shells in my ears (using VE thin foams)


----------



## capnjack (May 22, 2018)

Comparing BP with Willsound mk.1r2 - mk.1 seems to have a marginally wider soundstage, but BP seems taller?? (More airey)
Against the Willsound mk.2 - mk.2 has mid-bass hump, but soundstage seems slightly narrower and not as airey as BP. Willsound both use mx500 shell whereas BP is slightly smaller shell (in fact it feels a lot smaller in-ear)


----------



## haiku

New Bejo V2. You need an amp for it, but then be prepared to be blown away. Probably one of the best around right now. The indonesian earbud scene is a gold mine for earbud addicts.


----------



## chinmie

The Willsounds: MK2 rev2, MK3, PK32, and 300ohm. All balanced except the PK32. Testing them against my current MK2 rev1. 

Really liking the PK32! I'll ask my friend to lend his BK and other yuin type buds for comparison later


----------



## handwander

haiku said:


> New Bejo V2. You need an amp for it, but then be prepared to be blown away. Probably one of the best around right now. The indonesian earbud scene is a gold mine for earbud addicts.


Anything from the 'indonesian scene' that isn't using an mx500 or qian39 shell?


----------



## 40760

chinmie said:


> The Willsounds: MK2 rev2, MK3, PK32, and 300ohm. All balanced except the PK32. Testing them against my current MK2 rev1.
> 
> Really liking the PK32! I'll ask my friend to lend his BK and other yuin type buds for comparison later



Is your MK2 a special build? Mine comes with the MK3 cables...


----------



## chinmie

handwander said:


> Anything from the 'indonesian scene' that isn't using an mx500 or qian39 shell?



you mean edifier shell? i haven't seen anyone using qian39 shell outside the VE monk lites.


----------



## chinmie

palestofwhite said:


> Is your MK2 a special build? Mine comes with the MK3 cables...



i don't know, i chatted with willy about the PK32, then he send the other for me to test out. the MK3 and MK2 has similar cable type though, only different colors

my favorite so far is the PK32 and MK3. with the MK2, i like mine (rev1) better than the new rev2


----------



## 40760

chinmie said:


> i don't know, i chatted with willy about the PK32, then he send the other for me to test out. the MK3 and MK2 has similar cable type though, only different colors
> 
> my favorite so far is the PK32 and MK3. with the MK2, i like mine (rev1) better than the new rev2



Glad to hear your preferences, because my MK3 and PK32 are waiting to be shipped by Rholupat.


----------



## handwander

chinmie said:


> you mean edifier shell? i haven't seen anyone using qian39 shell outside the VE monk lites.


Oh alright. Well anything besides those?

Might pick up a cheap PK2 pair or something so I can try the "shozy" shell but honestly sick of the fit of the mx500 and similar shells.


----------



## chinmie

handwander said:


> Oh alright. Well anything besides those?
> 
> Might pick up a cheap PK2 pair or something so I can try the "shozy" shell but honestly sick of the fit of the mx500 and similar shells.



there are some, but the most well known ones besides the regular MX500 shells are the Yuins and Edifiers, and also some MX760 and beyerdynamics, but those two would be a bit bigger than the MX500


----------



## handwander

chinmie said:


> there are some, but the most well known ones besides the regular MX500 shells are the Yuins and Edifiers, and also some MX760 and beyerdynamics, but those two would be a bit bigger than the MX500


Hm. I really don't find MX500 comfortable so it sucks I basically ignore most of the good options posted here. 

Is there a consensus on which is more comfortable (in general) between the PK / Shozy style shell or the Zen Lite / Qian shell?


----------



## chinmie

handwander said:


> Hm. I really don't find MX500 comfortable so it sucks I basically ignore most of the good options posted here.
> 
> Is there a consensus on which is more comfortable (in general) between the PK / Shozy style shell or the Zen Lite / Qian shell?



they're about the same, but i'm eyeballing..maybe others can help with precise measurement? I like the yuins for it's shorter stem, but the Qian shell is more flush to the ear when used, some might like them better for sleeping. can't comment more because for me even the MX500 is comfortable to wear for sleeping


----------



## snip3r77

**** pt15 is definitely smaller


----------



## wskl

handwander said:


> Hm. I really don't find MX500 comfortable so it sucks I basically ignore most of the good options posted here.
> *
> Is there a consensus on which is more comfortable (in general) between the PK / Shozy style shell or the Zen Lite / Qian shell?*



I find that both PK/Lite shells are comfortable, with the PK it fits my ear like a glove and instantly gives me a great seal but has a tendency to rub against part of my ear when I sleep (particularly if I move my head to the side) which can cause some soreness, but comfort is fine when my head is in an upright position.  But no issue with the Lite shells, I think it is slightly smaller than PK because when I use it with thin foam, there is a little room to angle or move the earbud in my ear but the PK shell is quite tight fitting.  Also, the PK goes deeper into the concha part of the ear whereas the Lite is a more shallow fit.

YMMV since we may have different ear anatomy.


----------



## toear

handwander said:


> Oh alright. Well anything besides those?
> 
> Might pick up a cheap PK2 pair or something so I can try the "shozy" shell but honestly sick of the fit of the mx500 and similar shells.



For me the yuin shell fits comfortably ootb. The edifier shell is also OK. The mx 500 needs work. I also have a pair of sennheiser MX365 which slightly different from the mentioned  but full foams make them slightly uncomfortable. The graphene shell just fits but can be the most 'difficult' to put in...**** pt15 size easily fits the most comfortable ootb...

Hopefully this gives you some reference for another person who finds stock emx500 shells uncomfortable...


----------



## handwander

wskl said:


> I find that both PK/Lite shells are comfortable, with the PK it fits my ear like a glove and instantly gives me a great seal but has a tendency to rub against part of my ear when I sleep (particularly if I move my head to the side) which can cause some soreness, but comfort is fine when my head is in an upright position.  But no issue with the Lite shells, I think it is slightly smaller than PK because when I use it with thin foam, there is a little room to angle or move the earbud in my ear but the PK shell is quite tight fitting.  Also, the PK goes deeper into the concha part of the ear whereas the Lite is a more shallow fit.
> YMMV since we may have different ear anatomy.





toear said:


> For me the yuin shell fits comfortably ootb. The edifier shell is also OK. The mx 500 needs work. I also have a pair of sennheiser MX365 which slightly different from the mentioned  but full foams make them slightly uncomfortable. The graphene shell just fits but can be the most 'difficult' to put in...**** pt15 size easily fits the most comfortable ootb...
> Hopefully this gives you some reference for another person who finds stock emx500 shells uncomfortable...


Thanks to both. Will most likely end up getting a cheapish pair of both to try. Maybe even empty 'diy' shells on Ali. 



Spoiler



Or just buy the Toneking 400s and pray I find them comfortable because I like the look of them.


----------



## capnjack

The Black Panther measures 15mm across, whereas the Willsounds measure 16mm. Strangely the difference feels massive  when in use.


----------



## handwander

Interested in seeing some other form factors, was browsing auctions for older buds. Would be nice if some of these were brought back. Oh and someone should definitely bring back those spinnable cable winding cases. Might as well share some images:

MDR-E741


>



Aiwa HP-V33


>


----------



## seanc6441 (May 22, 2018)

chinmie said:


> The Willsounds: MK2 rev2, MK3, PK32, and 300ohm. All balanced except the PK32. Testing them against my current MK2 rev1.
> 
> Really liking the PK32! I'll ask my friend to lend his BK and other yuin type buds for comparison later


Awesome that you are liking it, this will be my next purchase maybe. The mx500 shell was holding me back from mk1/2 but now I have no excuse if PK32 sounds as good or better 

What's the sound sig roughly speaking?

And the soundstage?


----------



## handwander

https://www.facebook.com/groups/EarbudLoverIndonesia/

People weren't kidding about the Indonesia earbud scene lol. Seems pretty obscure but lots of interesting stuff there.


----------



## chaiyuta

@handwander : Only Toneking ROS1 use a small housing. Others (Unicorn, 65, 150, 180, 200, 400) are as similar as MX500 shell size. You might consider HY1000, Moondrop earbuds, K'z Ling (every iterations), VE Zen lite, VE Zen LL, Monk Lite or SWD2+. By the way, I heard that Symphonio is going to release new earbuds in this July. For cheap earbuds likes Meizu EP-21HD (genuine and a new logo) and Edifier H180 (or you might consider BEJO V.2) are not a bad choice.


----------



## seanc6441

TO400s has normal size diameter similar to MX500 but it's thinner and fits my ears much better. It is a comfortable earbud for my ears more so than BS1 or MX500/760 shell.


----------



## 40760

For earbuds, the diameter is just one factor that affects the fit. The curves that slopes down from the front cover to the back stem plays quite a big part too. I still feel the Qian39 (VE Monk Lite) style case to be more suitable for most people, and those with smaller ears must definitely try it to understand.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Awesome that you are liking it, this will be my next purchase maybe. The mx500 shell was holding me back from mk1/2 but now I have no excuse if PK32 sounds as good or better
> 
> What's the sound sig roughly speaking?
> 
> And the soundstage?


 
here's my impressions on the bunch (and also compared to my MK2 rev1). mind you i haven't had the opportunity to listen to the MK1 rev2.

the MK series have similar sound and soundstage one another, but with the MK1 focus on bass/midbass, MK2 on treble (also have the most snap/attack on the sound), and the MK3 on mids and most balanced between the MKs. no significant difference in soundstage between the balanced and my rev1 single ended. 

all off rev2 have reduced bass volume compared to the rev1. that might explain that MK2 is the most popular among rev1, and MK1 among rev2.

the 300 ohm has the most mid emphasis on all willsounds, also the most rolled off bass and slight roll off treble.

notes: all of the MKs and 300ohm are using thin monk-like foams, and have balanced jacks (except my MK2 rev1). 

the PK32 has a thicker mids compared to the MKs (around 500 hz bump). this result in more intimate sound and seemingly smaller width in soundstage, but also have more depth compared to the MKs. overall sound became more analog/tubey. treble is softer than the MKs, but not by any means dull. Bass is plenty deep, surprising for a yuin shell, and can compete with the MKs. 

notes: The PK32 is using full hiegi foams. i don't like the thin foams on it (too dispersed sound). i also don't like donuts on it (loses airyness and makes the soundstage closed in) 

notes:all the rev2, 300ohm and PK32 have a more rubbery and more pliable cable compared to the more plasticky and harder rev1 cable.


----------



## seanc6441

@chinmie very nice thank you. Might go for the PK32 it seems like a good match for my brighter LG v20.


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> i don't know, i chatted with willy about the PK32, then he send the other for me to test out. the MK3 and MK2 has similar cable type though, only different colors
> 
> my favorite so far is the PK32 and MK3. with the MK2, i like mine (rev1) better than the new rev2





chinmie said:


> here's my impressions on the bunch (and also compared to my MK2 rev1). mind you i haven't had the opportunity to listen to the MK1 rev2.
> 
> the MK series have similar sound and soundstage one another, but with the MK1 focus on bass/midbass, MK2 on treble (also have the most snap/attack on the sound), and the MK3 on mids and most balanced between the MKs. no significant difference in soundstage between the balanced and my rev1 single ended.
> 
> ...



Lol - I have no idea if the MK2 rev2 is the one that I should have purchased! That's okay though, as I'm sure that I'll be very happy with the MK2 (whenever it gets here).


----------



## HungryPanda

waynes world said:


> Lol - I have no idea if the MK2 rev2 is the one that I should have purchased! That's okay though, as I'm sure that I'll be very happy with the MK2 (whenever it gets here).


 Have faith I adore mine


----------



## 40760 (May 22, 2018)

waynes world said:


> Lol - I have no idea if the MK2 rev2 is the one that I should have purchased! That's okay though, as I'm sure that I'll be very happy with the MK2 (whenever it gets here).









I did some research and his silver cabled MK2 is actually a special edition.


----------



## mbwilson111

Listening with my Willsound MK1 rev2 and loving it.  Purposely listening to something I have never heard before.

I would rather fall in love with some new music than to analyze the gear.  I trust that these sound the way they should.  Sounds  like I am listening with full sized headphones which is nice because it is too warm today for headphones.


----------



## haiku

Got some Qlabs and Ampas coming. Interesting times ahead......


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Lol - I have no idea if the MK2 rev2 is the one that I should have purchased! That's okay though, as I'm sure that I'll be very happy with the MK2 (whenever it gets here).



no need to worry, they sounded really similar apart from the bass quantity. nothing a little eq nudge can't fix. both are great


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> Listening with my Willsound MK1 rev2 and loving it.  Purposely listening to something I have never heard before.
> 
> I would rather fall in love with some new music than to analyze the gear.  I trust that these sound the way they should.  Sounds  like I am listening with full sized headphones which is nice because it is too warm today for headphones.



I'm happy you love yours. now I'm a bit mad at willy for sending all of these..i only want to know about the PK32, but now the MK3 is tempting too .. i got too many buds already 

i definitely gonna keep the PK32 though.. I've been listening to it for hours and can put it down


----------



## capnjack (May 22, 2018)

palestofwhite said:


> I did some research and his silver cabled MK2 is actually a special edition.


Mine are the exact opposite of these, black cable and white shells. Sound incredible tho. I prefer the red mk.1 rev2 because it has slightly less mid-bass, a touch more sub-bass and a more airey soundstage. Ymmv.


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 23, 2018)

capnjack said:


> I prefer the red mk.1 rev2 because it has slightly less mid-bass, a touch more sub-bass and a more airy soundstage.



That must be why I love these.  Perfect sound signature for me.  Plus they are beautiful. Flexible cable and I prefer the straight plug that this has.


----------



## capnjack

mbwilson111 said:


> That must be why I love these.  Perfect sound signature for me.  Plus they are beautiful. Flexible cable and I prefer the straight plus that this has.


I find the cable on the mk.2 to be a bit springy/stiff. However if you like the mk.1 you’ll really want to get these......


----------



## 40760

capnjack said:


> Mine are the exact opposite of these, black cable and white shells. Sound incredible tho. I prefer the red mk.1 rev2 because it has slightly less mid-bass, a touch more sub-bass and a more airey soundstage. Ymmv.



Won't be some time till Willy gets the next batch of red shells to make the next batch. But I can wait...


----------



## capnjack (May 27, 2018)

@mbwilson111 Blur Black Panther  is the one you’re gonna want to get, it’s like the mk.1,slightly less bass overall, but with loads more air!


----------



## capnjack (May 22, 2018)

palestofwhite said:


> Won't be some time till Willy gets the next batch of red shells to make the next batch. But I can wait...



I think I might need a 2.5 balanced pair. Really should stop buying as I’m still waiting for my Blur White Chocolate 150’s to be made by Wong Kuan Wae


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 22, 2018)

capnjack said:


> I find the cable on the mk.2 to be a bit springy/stiff. However if you like the mk.1 you’ll really want to get these......



We already have a MK2 in the house... my husband has them but his look different from yours.  The bud is black but the cable is white and is more like my red cable in texture and flexibility.


----------



## Carrow (May 22, 2018)

Looking into acquiring a pair of Blur Black Panther buds myself. 

edit: also! these arrived today!


----------



## mbwilson111

capnjack said:


> @mbwilson111 Blur Black Panther  is the one you’re gonna want to get, it’s like the mk.1 but with more air!



How do I get it and is it expensive?


----------



## Carrow

mbwilson111 said:


> How do I get it and is it expensive?



S$90 with free shipping, so not that expensive - contact Blur owner Wong Kuan Wae on the Bookface and ask to see prices


----------



## capnjack

mbwilson111 said:


> How do I get it and is it expensive?


Wong Kuan  Wae, you’ll find him on Facebook if you look in the Earbuds Anonymous group. He’s a really nice guy and really easy to talk to! They might be a bit limited stock, he’s also busy hand building his other totl buds for other customers (inc. me). The Black Panther is a modified Docomo bud I believe and they’re only available in China at the moment.
Here’s another of his creations  these ones will cost a lot more I believe


----------



## mbwilson111

Carrow said:


> S$90 with free shipping, so not that expensive - contact Blur owner Wong Kuan Wae on the Bookface and ask to see prices



That is expensive to me.. I don't have any buds that cost that much.  I wonder if I would end up with customs charges.  I am happy with my current little collection.


----------



## Carrow

mbwilson111 said:


> That is expensive to me.. I don't have any buds that cost that much.  I wonder if I would end up with customs charges.  I am happy with my current little collection.



It's about £50 and they're made to order, could be a nice present for yourself somewhere down the line


----------



## capnjack

mbwilson111 said:


> That is expensive to me.. I don't have any buds that cost that much.  I wonder if I would end up with customs charges.  I am happy with my current little collection.


I got mine without any customs charges. The price was in Singapore $, so not really much more expensive than the Willsounds


----------



## mbwilson111

Carrow said:


> It's about £50 and they're made to order, could be a nice present for yourself somewhere down the line



If I got it, it would be a present from my husband.  I do have a birthday coming up.

What shell does the Black Panther use?  The Willsound is a little bigger than I prefer but it is ok.  Qian and Edifier fit best.  I do like long stems though as they are easier for me to grasp.


----------



## Carrow

mbwilson111 said:


> If I got it, it would be a present from my husband.  *I do have a birthday coming up*.



That's convenient


----------



## mbwilson111

Carrow said:


> That's convenient



In two months...but maybe it takes that long to get them?



capnjack said:


> The Black Panther measures 15mm across, whereas the Willsounds measure 16mm. Strangely the difference feels massive  when in use.



Just realized you already answered my question about shell size.  If the BP is slightly smaller than the MK1, that is perfect.


----------



## Carrow

mbwilson111 said:


> In two months...but maybe it takes that long to get them?



Made to order with payment due on completion, shipped from Singapore... sounds likely, yeah.


----------



## mbwilson111

Carrow said:


> Made to order with payment due on completion, shipped from Singapore... sounds likely, yeah.



When you say made to order, does that mean that there are choices to make like cable type etc?


----------



## Carrow

mbwilson111 said:


> When you say made to order, does that mean that there are choices to make like cable type etc?



Cable type varies by model and you can select the kind of plug you want from 2.5/3.5/4.4  I was talking to Wong just this morning so I've asked about turnaround time anyway, will pass on any info I get back


----------



## waynes world

Yup, pump a bit of bass into the **** PT15's, and you have a damn fine earbud. And pretty amazing build quality. And they are practically giving them away


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> Yup, pump a bit of bass into the **** PT15's, and you have a damn fine earbud. And pretty amazing build quality. And they are practically giving them away


I like it for an all rounder. It’s pretty good at everything but not a specialist at anything.

That’s not a bad thing though, but I’d never be satisfied with it as my only bud.

For $8 though... very nice. Probably slightly better than the monk lite overall. But bulkier housing...


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> I like it for an all rounder. It’s pretty good at everything but not a specialist at anything.
> 
> That’s not a bad thing though, *but I’d never be satisfied with it as my only bud.*
> 
> For $8 though... very nice. Probably slightly better than the monk lite overall. But bulkier housing...



I'd never be satisfied with anything as my _only _bud!

Actually that's not true, because for certain durations I can be completely satisfied. For example I happily listened to the graphenes ($29 old) pretty much exclusively for many months, and then (and now) the svara l's.

But, resistance is futile and something else always finds it's way into my ears after a while. Such is my head-fi life lol


----------



## HungryPanda

I like nearly everything I have be it iem, earbud or headphone.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> I like it for an all rounder. It’s pretty good at everything but not a specialist at anything.
> 
> That’s not a bad thing though, but I’d never be satisfied with it as my only bud.
> 
> For $8 though... very nice. Probably slightly better than the monk lite overall. But bulkier housing...



Put some bluetooth cables on them, and you have yourself a good balanced sounding wireless buds (a rare sound sig among the cheap buds, especially the wireless ones) 



waynes world said:


> I'd never be satisfied with anything as my _only _bud!
> 
> Actually that's not true, because for certain durations I can be completely satisfied. For example I happily listened to the graphenes ($29 old) pretty much exclusively for many months, and then (and now) the svara l's.
> 
> But, resistance is futile and something else always finds it's way into my ears after a while. Such is my head-fi life lol



As long as we lurk around here, there's always be "the next purchase"


----------



## haiku

mbwilson111 said:


> That must be why I love these.  Perfect sound signature for me.  Plus they are beautiful. Flexible cable and I prefer the straight plus that this has.



Amp them and you´ll be amazed.


----------



## capnjack (May 23, 2018)

Carrow said:


> Made to order with payment due on completion, shipped from Singapore... sounds likely, yeah.



No, after completion/payment, Wong posted mine next day. They were in my ears (in UK) within 10 days!


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> Put some bluetooth cables on them, and you have yourself a good balanced sounding wireless buds (a rare sound sig among the cheap buds, especially the wireless ones



Oh how I wish my long lost balanced cable would suddenly show up!


----------



## fairx

Lol with all these rave about Indonesia tuned earbud made me think if I should hop to Jakarta for a day or two just to audition. We get cheap enough flights from KL.. 

Is there a  central place these earbud can be auditioned? At least the popular one?


----------



## astenlet

Just got my one of a kind CAX Earbud codename Mochi. It is a mid centric earbud that is 2 level above Qfred.


----------



## chinmie

fairx said:


> Lol with all these rave about Indonesia tuned earbud made me think if I should hop to Jakarta for a day or two just to audition. We get cheap enough flights from KL..
> 
> Is there a  central place these earbud can be auditioned? At least the popular one?



try inquire in the E. Anonymous, someone or even a group that got multiple indo buds might hit you up for a meet up.


----------



## 40760

The EA Facebook group is truly an eye opener for me...


----------



## handwander

https://www.facebook.com/groups/52vecn/permalink/1705832166160808/

Zen Lite Lite model 

If these are limited, someone who is able to buy one - buy one for me! Want that black Lite shell but don't feel like buying the Zen Lite lol.


----------



## mbwilson111

haiku said:


> Amp them and you´ll be amazed.



Actually my MK1 rev2 is hooked up to my desk amp at the moment...I left it to burn in overnight.  I did burn it in for awhile when I got it but can't remember how long.   

Last night I was using it with my Cayin N3 which is a powerful little dap.  My Opus #1 and my Hidizs AP200 also have enough power for all but my higher impedence headphones.


----------



## Guggga

mbwilson111 said:


> Actually my MK1 rev2 is hooked up to my desk amp at the moment...I left it to burn in overnight.  I did burn it in for awhile when I got it but can't remember how long.
> 
> Last night I was using it with my Cayin N3 which is a powerful little dap.  My Opus #1 and my Hidizs AP200 also have enough power for all but my higher impedence headphones.



Good to see you enjoying the mk1 rev 2. 

Did you manage to get the Varna to stop rattling? If not  just try this - form a seal with your lips and blow air a little vigorously inwards into the driver. I've cured a few of my buds similarly. If nothing works, get in touch with Adhi, he's helpful.


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 23, 2018)

Guggga said:


> Good to see you enjoying the mk1 rev 2.
> 
> Did you manage to get the Varna to stop rattling? If not  just try this - form a seal with your lips and blow air a little vigorously inwards into the driver. I've cured a few of my buds similarly. If nothing works, get in touch with Adhi, he's helpful.



I have no idea what you mean. What is a Varna?  What rattling?

Edit:  I think I figured it out.  @doggiemom had a problem with rattling.  She and I are not the same person...but we do both love dogs...and buds


----------



## Karl2009

Hi, xiaomi has released an earbud with dual driver (moving coil and ceramic) with the same apple earbuds style. It has 3 function buttons.
Has someone tested it? price is about 15$


----------



## 40760

The wait for the MK1 to be restocked is going to be longer than expected...


----------



## ZoneX23

I recently got my MK2 rev. 2, and am hearing details in my music I never heard previously... awesome! For context, I've previously enjoyed budget buds that have a stronger low end, like the Vido, EMX-500, etc. so it's nice to hear something more balanced. However, after hearing people's thoughts on the MK1 rev 2-- and because I do like extra bass quantity without compromising elsewhere-- I'm also thinking about grabbing the MK1 rev 2 as well.

Does anyone have both the Fengru EMX-500s and the MK1 rev. 2? I want to know if the MK1 rev 2 is a worthy upgrade from the EMX-500s. I love the MK2 rev 2 to bits, but I want something that has even better bass with good treble and without a super recessed midrange. If anyone can point me in the right direction, that'd be great! I love the EMX-500s, but if the MK1 rev 2 or another bud can satisfy my craving for bass and clarity/detail I'm gonna jump on it.


----------



## 40760

ZoneX23 said:


> I recently got my MK2 rev. 2, and am hearing details in my music I never heard previously... awesome! For context, I've previously enjoyed budget buds that have a stronger low end, like the Vido, EMX-500, etc. so it's nice to hear something more balanced. However, after hearing people's thoughts on the MK1 rev 2-- and because I do like extra bass quantity without compromising elsewhere-- I'm also thinking about grabbing the MK1 rev 2 as well.
> 
> Does anyone have both the Fengru EMX-500s and the MK1 rev. 2? I want to know if the MK1 rev 2 is a worthy upgrade from the EMX-500s. I love the MK2 rev 2 to bits, but I want something that has even better bass with good treble and without a super recessed midrange. If anyone can point me in the right direction, that'd be great! I love the EMX-500s, but if the MK1 rev 2 or another bud can satisfy my craving for bass and clarity/detail I'm gonna jump on it.



My exact sentiments! I too have the MK2 but want to also enjoy more bass and a bigger sound, so I'm looking to get the MK1 as well...


----------



## kurtextrem

Karl2009 said:


> Hi, xiaomi has released an earbud with dual driver (moving coil and ceramic) with the same apple earbuds style. It has 3 function buttons.
> Has someone tested it? price is about 15$


Sounds really interesting. Do you have a link?


----------



## snip3r77

palestofwhite said:


> My exact sentiments! I too have the MK2 but want to also enjoy more bass and a bigger sound, so I'm looking to get the MK1 as well...



is it true MK3 has the worst bass?
MK1 is the best?


----------



## 40760

snip3r77 said:


> is it true MK3 has the worst bass?
> MK1 is the best?



I don't my MK3 back yet as Adhi is replacing mine due to a defect. I don't think the MK3 has the worst bass as I suspect the PK32 might have even lesser.

However, I can say that the MK3 is a warmer version of the MK2 from my very brief listening before I sent them back to Adhi.


----------



## chinmie

snip3r77 said:


> is it true MK3 has the worst bass?
> MK1 is the best?



not the worst, quality-wise they are all in the same level. but it does have the least amount compared to the other MKs and also the most balanced. for speedy music like metal and such it will do a better job than the MK1 and 2. i prefer big bass on the MK2 though.


----------



## chinmie

palestofwhite said:


> I don't my MK3 back yet as Adhi is replacing mine due to a defect. I don't think the MK3 has the worst bass as I suspect the PK32 might have even lesser.
> 
> However, I can say that the MK3 is a warmer version of the MK2 from my very brief listening before I sent them back to Adhi.



the PK32 and MK3 are about the same bass amount, but the PK32 have a fuller midbass sound compared to the MK3


----------



## 40760

chinmie said:


> the PK32 and MK3 are about the same bass amount, but the PK32 have a fuller midbass sound compared to the MK3



That's very nice to hear, as I'm only sharing what Willy had conveyed to me before I ordered the PK32. I won't have both my MK3 and PK32 for another 2 weeks I suspect. Hopefully Adhi will ship them out by this week...


----------



## chinmie

palestofwhite said:


> That's very nice to hear, as I'm only sharing what Willy had conveyed to me before I ordered the PK32. I won't have both my MK3 and PK32 for another 2 weeks I suspect. Hopefully Adhi will ship them out by this week...



the funny thing is I usually dislike earbuds that is too warm and too midbass heavy  but this PK32 is a different story  it sounds full without being congested, it's as detailed as the MKs.


----------



## seanc6441 (May 23, 2018)

chinmie said:


> the funny thing is I usually dislike earbuds that is too warm and too midbass heavy  but this PK32 is a different story  it sounds full without being congested, it's as detailed as the MKs.


Does the bass extend deep enough? To satisfy most genre other than EDM maybe?

I prefer a slightly arcing bass like a ‘mid bass bump’ but with some extension deep. I find this sounds punchy and full but if you can tune it just right it’s not bloated or overly thick.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Does the bass extend deep enough? To satisfy most genre other than EDM maybe?
> 
> I prefer a slightly arcing bass like a ‘mid bass bump’ but with some extension deep. I find this sounds punchy and full but if you can tune it just right it’s not bloated or overly thick.



using the sub bass sweep test, i can hear all the way to 20hz no problem with it.it reaches deep, but the midbass have a bit of a hump that makes them more prominent and warms up the overall sound


----------



## 40760

chinmie said:


> the funny thing is I usually dislike earbuds that is too warm and too midbass heavy  but this PK32 is a different story  it sounds full without being congested, it's as detailed as the MKs.



Usually earbuds that are especially warm and mid bass heavy tend to muddy the sound. If what you described is true, then it's quite a feat for Willy to tune it that way and still be detailed.

Now I'm really looking forward to receiving the PK32 to compare to the other MKs...


----------



## 40760

EDIT: Double Post


----------



## chinmie

palestofwhite said:


> Usually earbuds that are especially warm and mid bass heavy tend to muddy the sound. If what you described is true, then it's quite a feat for Willy to tune it that way and still be detailed.
> 
> Now I'm really looking forward to receiving the PK32 to compare to the other MKs...



and that's coming from a guy who usually likes cold and thin mids 
can't wait for you to get your PK32 too so we can compare our experience. remember to let it play a bit to loosen up the sound. it will get more effortless sound after a good few hours of play


----------



## snip3r77

chinmie said:


> not the worst, quality-wise they are all in the same level. but it does have the least amount compared to the other MKs and also the most balanced. for speedy music like metal and such it will do a better job than the MK1 and 2. i prefer big bass on the MK2 though.


Mk3 better than vido?


----------



## chinmie

snip3r77 said:


> Mk3 better than vido?



in what terms? sound quality? yes
bass volume? I'd say about the same


----------



## waynes world

snip3r77 said:


> Mk3 better than vido?



Are you asking "does the mk3 fit my preferences better than the vido?" (nobody but you can answer that one)

Or are you asking "is the mk3 technically better than the vido?". If so, which areas are you interested in?


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> bass volume? I'd say about the same



Interesting! To me, the vido's have a lot of bass (at least, mid bass).

In summary, how does the bass of the mk1's, mk2's and mk3's compare? I was getting the impression that in terms of bass amount: mk1 > mk2 > mk3. But maybe I have that wrong. If I have that right though, and if the mk3's have about the same amount of bass as the vido's, then the mk1's and mk2's must be bass cannons! Then again, the svara l is what I would consider to be a bass cannon, but the bass is so good, that I am completely addicted to it now lol


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Interesting! To me, the vido's have a lot of bass (at least, mid bass).
> 
> In summary, how does the bass of the mk1's, mk2's and mk3's compare? I was getting the impression that in terms of bass amount: mk1 > mk2 > mk3. But maybe I have that wrong. If I have that right though, and if the mk3's have about the same amount of bass as the vido's, then the mk1's and mk2's must be bass cannons! Then again, the svara l is what I would consider to be a bass cannon, but the bass is so good, that I am completely addicted to it now lol



you're right it is mk1 > mk2 > mk3 on bass amount
mind you the MK3 test unit is using thin foams, and also I'm always use my vido with thin foams.I'd say vido have a more boom on lower midbass, but on the subbass they're about the same class. they're not wholly and engulfing bass like the Svara though, which is a different beast altogether


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> you're right it is mk1 > mk2 > mk3 on bass amount
> mind you the MK3 test unit is using thin foams, and also I'm always use my vido with thin foams.I'd say vido have a more boom on lower midbass, but on the subbass they're about the same class. they're not wholly and engulfing bass like the Svara though, which is a different beast altogether



Thanks. I wish someone had both the old Svara's (like you have) and the newer 32ohm ones like I have to compare. I think that yours are even beastlier than mine in the bass department!


----------



## Chifi

does tokopedia accept paypal?


----------



## HungryPanda

I had to get my Svara''s out and have a listen, great for rock


----------



## capnjack

waynes world said:


> Interesting! To me, the vido's have a lot of bass (at least, mid bass).
> 
> In summary, how does the bass of the mk1's, mk2's and mk3's compare? I was getting the impression that in terms of bass amount: mk1 > mk2 > mk3. But maybe I have that wrong. If I have that right though, and if the mk3's have about the same amount of bass as the vido's, then the mk1's and mk2's must be bass cannons! Then again, the svara l is what I would consider to be a bass cannon, but the bass is so good, that I am completely addicted to it now lol



You might want to consider Blur Black Panther too, though not strictly one of Wong’s Blur buds. It’s a Docomo that he has tuned to his type of sound. Compares nicely to and compliments my Willsound mk.1, but with a touch more air!


----------



## waynes world

capnjack said:


> You might want to consider Blur Black Panther too, though not strictly one of Wong’s Blur buds. It’s a Docomo that he has tuned to his type of sound. Compares nicely to and compliments my Willsound mk.1, but with a touch more air!



Thanks.


----------



## seanc6441

@chinmie sorry to keep firing questions at you this is the last one before I pull the trigger 

Are you using the PK32 with thin aliexpress foams? Is the treble prominent and extended enough for you?

I think we both have the same expectations for treble. I’d love if these had enough treble to bring out the detail and sound extended enough.


----------



## Zerohour88

Chifi said:


> does tokopedia accept paypal?



Tokopedia only does local shipping, so I wouldn't imagine they take Paypal. Indonesian sites usually use Western Union or something similar for payments.

Try directly contacting the seller to arrange a purchase using Paypal.


----------



## krunchcrispy

mbwilson111 said:


> Actually my MK1 rev2 is hooked up to my desk amp at the moment...I left it to burn in overnight.  I did burn it in for awhile when I got it but can't remember how long.
> 
> Last night I was using it with my Cayin N3 which is a powerful little dap.  My Opus #1 and my Hidizs AP200 also have enough power for all but my higher impedence headphones.


Hey, if you wouldn't mind, is there an earbud that you especially like to pair with the Opus#1?


----------



## ld100

Are there any earbuds that have an Audeze like sound signature?


----------



## snip3r77

chinmie said:


> you're right it is mk1 > mk2 > mk3 on bass amount
> mind you the MK3 test unit is using thin foams, and also I'm always use my vido with thin foams.I'd say vido have a more boom on lower midbass, but on the subbass they're about the same class. they're not wholly and engulfing bass like the Svara though, which is a different beast altogether


Perhaps a lot of feedback that the mk1 and 2 is too bloaty hence the mk3 is punchier. Just guessing .
Besides bass, how does mk3 compares ?


----------



## wskl

kurtextrem said:


> Sounds really interesting. Do you have a link?



Search for "Xiaomi Half In Ear" on Aliexpress, also a few unboxing videos on youtube.


----------



## mbwilson111

krunchcrispy said:


> Hey, if you wouldn't mind, is there an earbud that you especially like to pair with the Opus#1?



I use the Opus mostly with my tube amp and higher impedance headphones.   It is too big to put in my pocket so I have not used it much with buds. 

I don't worry much about pairing.  When I get lost in my music I forget about the gear.  So, I am not the beat person to ask.

I suspect that all of my buds would sound good straight out of the Opus.  I just tend to reach for my Cayin N3 more.


----------



## mbwilson111

snip3r77 said:


> Perhaps a lot of feedback that the mk1 and 2 is too bloaty hence the mk3 is punchier. Just guessing .
> Besides bass, how does mk3 compares ?



I don't find the bass "bloaty " with my MK1 rev2.


----------



## krunchcrispy

mbwilson111 said:


> I use the Opus mostly with my tube amp and higher impedance headphones.   It is too big to put in my pocket so I have not used it much with buds.
> 
> I don't worry much about pairing.  When I get lost in my music I forget about the gear.  So, I am not the beat person to ask.
> 
> I suspect that all of my buds would sound good straight out of the Opus.  I just tend to reach for my Cayin N3 more.


OK, thanks for the reply!


----------



## 40760

snip3r77 said:


> Perhaps a lot of feedback that the mk1 and 2 is too bloaty hence the mk3 is punchier. Just guessing .
> Besides bass, how does mk3 compares ?



My MK2 is anything but "bloaty"...


----------



## handwander

I just want to say whoever made a comment many pages back about completely isolated sound not being natural for humans and thus earbuds being better than IEMs - you have basically ruined my IEM listening experience   I only own like two pairs of buds, both quite cheap, but I keep going back to them instead of 10x the price IEMs because that comment keeps popping into my head. "These aren't natural - you should WANT less isolation!"


----------



## 40760

My expensive IEMs and CIEMs are for listening when on the move. When I'm at home and working, it's earbuds all the way...


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> @chinmie sorry to keep firing questions at you this is the last one before I pull the trigger
> 
> Are you using the PK32 with thin aliexpress foams? Is the treble prominent and extended enough for you?
> 
> I think we both have the same expectations for treble. I’d love if these had enough treble to bring out the detail and sound extended enough.



no problem at all, happy to help 
I'm using the full hiegi foams on the PK32, the treble doesn't take a hit on details, just a bit fuller and warm. with the thin foams the overall tone becomea floaty/unfocused, and with donuts the soundstage becomes closed in. i much prefer the full foams with it



snip3r77 said:


> Perhaps a lot of feedback that the mk1 and 2 is too bloaty hence the mk3 is punchier. Just guessing .
> Besides bass, how does mk3 compares ?



the only willsound that a bit boomy for my taste is the MK1 rev1, and even that isn't bloaty for me. i haven't heard the MK1rev2, but if the bass reduction is consistent  the MK1rev2 will have a nice sounding bass

read my take on this https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2084#post-14255892


----------



## chinmie

handwander said:


> I just want to say whoever made a comment many pages back about completely isolated sound not being natural for humans and thus earbuds being better than IEMs - you have basically ruined my IEM listening experience   I only own like two pairs of buds, both quite cheap, but I keep going back to them instead of 10x the price IEMs because that comment keeps popping into my head. "These aren't natural - you should WANT less isolation!"



each have their own uses, and don't compare them head to head, because after a long earbud session iems will sound tinny, and after a long iem session earbuds will sound muddy. the ears will need time to compensate.


----------



## waynes world

handwander said:


> I just want to say whoever made a comment many pages back about completely isolated sound not being natural for humans and thus earbuds being better than IEMs - you have basically ruined my IEM listening experience   I only own like two pairs of buds, both quite cheap, but I keep going back to them instead of 10x the price IEMs because that comment keeps popping into my head. "These aren't natural - you should WANT less isolation!"



My main issue with iem's is that I cant hear my family yelling at me for being anti-social. Maybe that's a positive though?


----------



## haiku




----------



## handwander

chinmie said:


> each have their own uses, and don't compare them head to head, because after a long earbud session iems will sound tinny, and after a long iem session earbuds will sound muddy. the ears will need time to compensate.





waynes world said:


> My main issue with iem's is that I cant hear my family yelling at me for being anti-social. Maybe that's a positive though?


I meant it as a positive mostly lol. It's a pretty interesting scene, though I wish there were more small makers using shells beside the mx500.


----------



## 40760 (May 29, 2018)

Edit: Image Error


----------



## Zerohour88

waynes world said:


> My main issue with iem's is that I cant hear my family yelling at me for being anti-social. Maybe that's a positive though?



or for people who are paranoid and afraid that an axe-wielding murderer might storm the house and you can't hear him coming


----------



## 40760

waynes world said:


> My main issue with iem's is that I cant hear my family yelling at me for being anti-social. Maybe that's a positive though?



Most importantly, IEMs can cause you to not hear the knocks and door bell ringings, resulting in unsuccessful delivery of your highly anticipated audio purchases!


----------



## dheepak10

mbwilson111 said:


> I don't find the bass "bloaty " with my MK1 rev2.


I find it bloated when using full foam or donut foam. So like all my other earbuds, I use them without any foam to enjoy a tighter bass and that nice airiness and sparkle at the top end.


----------



## alchemist23

Sorry coming to this discussion late. How do I go about ordering a pair of mk 2 and what’s the price in U.K. £?


----------



## 40760

alchemist23 said:


> Sorry coming to this discussion late. How do I go about ordering a pair of mk 2 and what’s the price in U.K. £?



Search for Willsound on FB and PM them or Google for Rholupat. Their prices are pretty similar.


----------



## handwander

Are these just normal foams? They look spongier than I'm used to but I don't own any yellow or green foams so it might just be the color fooling me.


----------



## Guggga

palestofwhite said:


> Search for Willsound on FB and PM them or Google for Rholupat. Their prices are pretty similar.


Shipping from rohlupat.com will always be cheaper. Willy and most other builders seem to be located further inland.


----------



## Guggga

handwander said:


> Are these just normal foams? They look spongier than I'm used to but I don't own any yellow or green foams so it might just be the color fooling me.


These are Chots foams from Thailand. A friend sent these to me last year. They're nice. I also really like the Abnormal thick foams that rohlupat.com sent me complimentary  with a few of my orders.

I haven't tried heigi foams ever.


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> Most importantly, IEMs can cause you to not hear the knocks and door bell ringings, resulting in unsuccessful delivery of your highly anticipated audio purchases!



This has happened to me 

I do prefer to not be isolated but I do have some great sounding iems... and some are really pretty


----------



## capnjack

Just doing a bit of surfing and came across this review  interesting! 
https://thetechkaiju.com/2017/10/06/bus-ride-impression-blur-魔王/


----------



## handwander (May 24, 2018)

Guggga said:


> These are Chots foams from Thailand. A friend sent these to me last year. They're nice. I also really like the Abnormal thick foams that rohlupat.com sent me complimentary  with a few of my orders.
> I haven't tried heigi foams ever.


Poster was from Thailand I think, so makes sense lol. No way to order these easily from outside Thailand I assume?


----------



## capnjack

mbwilson111 said:


> This has happened to me
> 
> I do prefer to not be isolated but I do have some great sounding iems... and some are really pretty


How’s the hunt for your birthday present coming along?  Got your other half to order any new buds for you yet?


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 24, 2018)

capnjack said:


> How’s the hunt for your birthday present coming along?  Got your other half to order any new buds for you yet?



I don't know about the BP.  Might he be secretly doing it?

Meanwhile... I do have a Faaeal Rosemary on the way.  No idea what to expect .  I have heard the Snow Lotus and liked it.  For awhile it was mine but then I traded it back for something else.  We do some trading in our house.  There have even been some full sized headphone trades and my husband would say there have been a couple of thefts.  (I eventually gave back the T50rp Mk3 after nearly two years)







edited to add link:   https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...00-earbud-Heavy-bass-earbuds/32858195175.html


----------



## audio123 (May 24, 2018)

Enjoy the review on Astrotec Lyra Classic! 

https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/05/23/astrotec-lyra-classic/


----------



## Guggga

handwander said:


> Poster was from Thailand I think, so makes sense lol. No way to order these easily from outside Thailand I assume?


Yes, you'd need someone in Thailand to ship Chots to you. Maybe it's easier to get thr Abnormal foams or thr heigis for you.


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> There have even been some full sized headphone trades and my husband would say there have been a couple of thefts.



Really? What's his is yours and what's yours is yours. At least that's what my wife told me. I didn't dare argue.


----------



## handwander

haiku said:


> Got some Qlabs and Ampas coming. Interesting times ahead......


Where did you order the Qlabs from? Facebook?


----------



## 40760

Those Chot foams look really delicious...


----------



## haiku

handwander said:


> Where did you order the Qlabs from? Facebook?



Yup from Thomas Aquino Ardy.


----------



## snip3r77

chinmie said:


> no problem at all, happy to help
> I'm using the full hiegi foams on the PK32, the treble doesn't take a hit on details, just a bit fuller and warm. with the thin foams the overall tone becomea floaty/unfocused, and with donuts the soundstage becomes closed in. i much prefer the full foams with it
> 
> 
> ...



I bought the mk3 and I guess I'm already disappointed before it reaches me


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> Really? What's his is yours and what's yours is yours. At least that's what my wife told me. I didn't dare argue.



Haha.  Well,  he won't let me have his Fostex t60rp even though I gave the t50 back to him...


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 24, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> I bought the mk3 and I guess I'm already disappointed before it reaches me



Keep an open mind.  I bet it will sound great.


----------



## 40760

snip3r77 said:


> I bought the mk3 and I guess I'm already disappointed before it reaches me



Come on... this hobby doesn't work this way...


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> Come on... this hobby doesn't work this way...



Exactly!  Be excited when it arrives!  Expect to be happy...maybe in a different way than you first thought.

You will be the proud owner of a Willsound bud!


----------



## chaiyuta

Chot sponge is one of famous sponge in Thailand. The other two are Sennheiser sponge and Audio-Technica sponge. For the other two you could simply buy via a Japan web-store.


----------



## haiku

snip3r77 said:


> I bought the mk3 and I guess I'm already disappointed before it reaches me


 
You kidding or what? The Mk3 is a killer, bro!


----------



## 40760

chaiyuta said:


> Chot sponge is one of famous sponge in Thailand. The other two are Sennheiser sponge and Audio-Technica sponge. For the other two you could simply buy via a Japan web-store.



Is there any easy way for one to buy Chot from outside of Thailand?


----------



## snip3r77

haiku said:


> You kidding or what? The Mk3 is a killer, bro!


Most of them say the bass cannot make it


----------



## 40760

snip3r77 said:


> Most of them say the bass cannot make it



Says who?


----------



## haiku

snip3r77 said:


> Most of them say the bass cannot make it



Give it a good amp and it can.


----------



## chaiyuta

palestofwhite said:


> Is there any easy way for one to buy Chot from outside of Thailand?


 How about via a middle man likes me? PM me if you are interested.


----------



## 40760

chaiyuta said:


> How about via a middle man likes me? PM me if you are interested.



Thanks for the offer! I'll hit you up soon!


----------



## Philimon

Holy puck, I am not reading 2091pages. Anyone here informed enough to start a new thread? Like rankings and links to helpful information ONLY. I want to know which are the best earbuds based on community consensus, credible reviewer opinion, and measurements. Thanks, I don't ask much.


----------



## DatClampTho

Philimon said:


> Holy puck, I am not reading 2091pages. Anyone here informed enough to start a new thread? Like rankings and links to helpful information ONLY. I want to know which are the best earbuds based on community consensus, credible reviewer opinion, and measurements. Thanks, I don't ask much.



I think you'll get a good idea of the current best earbuds if you just read back a dozen or two pages. You'll pick up on the trends.


----------



## seanc6441 (May 24, 2018)

Philimon said:


> Holy puck, I am not reading 2091pages. Anyone here informed enough to start a new thread? Like rankings and links to helpful information ONLY. I want to know which are the best earbuds based on community consensus, credible reviewer opinion, and measurements. Thanks, I don't ask much.


Why not ask the question you seek an answer for and you’ll get informative responses if you don’t feel like reading back. Starting a new thread and filling it with reviews and rankings for many individuals with the knowledge is a big ask just for a few who don’t want to put in the research, use the search function or ask a few questions.

We made a earbud ranking recently and had a community vote on the earbuds we owned. Here it is https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...2RK-1_XnAo/pubhtml?gid=1362510242&single=true

it’s missing a few of the latest K’s flagship buds and the simphonio Dragon SW2+ but it’s relatively recently overall.

Starting a new thread just divides this community. Unless this thread becomes locked in favour of a new one I don’t think we need  another earbud thread. Everything about this thread is ideal, we have a centralised location to get feedback from everyone and everyone who asks questions gets answers very quickly.


----------



## seanc6441

DatClampTho said:


> I think you'll get a good idea of the current best earbuds if you just read back a dozen or two pages. You'll pick up on the trends.


Yep, or simply give us a budget, a sound preference and let the community suggest earbuds to you. No need for a new thread when this one functions very smoothly.


----------



## rkw

Philimon said:


> Holy puck, I am not reading 2091pages. Anyone here informed enough to start a new thread? Like rankings and links to helpful information ONLY. I want to know which are the best earbuds based on community consensus, credible reviewer opinion, and measurements. *Thanks, I don't ask much.*


No, that's actually a HUGE request. It would require somebody to volunteer a large amount of time and work to compile that information.


----------



## cathee

rkw said:


> No, that's actually a HUGE request. It would require somebody to volunteer a large amount of time and work to compile that information.


+1


----------



## snip3r77

seanc6441 said:


> Why not ask the question you seek an answer for and you’ll get informative responses if you don’t feel like reading back. Starting a new thread and filling it with reviews and rankings for many individuals with the knowledge is a big ask just for a few who don’t want to put in the research, use the search function or ask a few questions.
> 
> We made a earbud ranking recently and had a community vote on the earbuds we owned. Here it is https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...2RK-1_XnAo/pubhtml?gid=1362510242&single=true
> 
> ...




Nice link, I feel it's more like how many users bought xyz earbud


----------



## ClieOS (May 24, 2018)

Z Acoustics 'DaoMaDan' (刀马旦) balanced version
Yincrow RW-9


----------



## ClieOS (May 24, 2018)

Got myself a second pair of PT15 after repeated reading about how the new one is different from the old one - here are my PT15: the black on is the original first batch (*directly from ****'s official Taobao store during initial launched) and the blue one was ordered just last week from the same store again. As far as I can tell, both sound pretty much identical under the same cable with the same type of foam pad. I also PM'ed to ****'s customer service and they confirmed that the tuning has never been changed.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

seanc6441 said:


> Why not ask the question you seek an answer for and you’ll get informative responses if you don’t feel like reading back. Starting a new thread and filling it with reviews and rankings for many individuals with the knowledge is a big ask just for a few who don’t want to put in the research, use the search function or ask a few questions.
> 
> We made a earbud ranking recently and had a community vote on the earbuds we owned. Here it is https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...2RK-1_XnAo/pubhtml?gid=1362510242&single=true



Looking at that google doc, those EMX500 buds seem to be highly-regarded.  Would those be these?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...dbcd2df&transAbTest=ae803_1&priceBeautifyAB=0

...and are they that good?


----------



## Philimon (May 24, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Yep, or simply give us a budget, a sound preference and let the community suggest earbuds to you. No need for a new thread when this one functions very smoothly.



Thanks everyone for the replies.

I don't think this thread should be aborted. I'm saying maybe a quick guide would be helpful. Usually the original poster keeps post #1 updated - but don't blame him cause thread is huge.

Okay then. Budget: sub $150, but preferably $0. Sound preference: neutral and undistorted, and preferably n-shaped vs u-shaped if need be.

So far I have the Auglamour RX1 which I really like but I wish the highs weren't as rolled off. I've ordered the NiceHCK DIY Graphene (old 2017 version) based on this review because it was compared well with Shozy BK but at much cheaper price. Now I am worried that review was unique. I've not found many reviews of these earbuds so it's hard to get a feel. I did find some helpful information on that other headphone forum (not reddit) that you can't name because you'll get banned, but I'm not sure I can relay that post here without getting in trouble. I will say that opinion I found there liked the old NiceHCK graphene but said it was a bit mid-recessed and the treble was fatiguing. Ugh. Why Aliexpress ship so slow?


----------



## DBaldock9

ClieOS said:


> Got myself a second pair of PT15 after repeated reading about how the new one is different from the old one - here are my PT15: the black on is the original first batch (*directly from ****'s official Taobao store during initial launched) and the blue one was ordered just last week from the same store again. As far as I can tell, both sound pretty much identical under the same cable with the same type of foam pad. I also PM'ed to ****'s customer service and they confirmed that the tuning has never been changed.



No matter what the **** customer service people say - the set of PT15 I ordered back in October of 2016, had a good Mid- & Treble-centric sound, but not much Bass impact.  
When the MMCX connector pulled out of one, I ordered a replacement set in April of 2017, which had much better Bass impact.  They had the same 4-hole housing as the first set.
Then, in December of 2017, I ordered 2 more sets. They're the newer 1-hole housing, and sound the same as the set from April.


----------



## Chifi

the more i read these threads the less im sure which earbuds i actually want to buy  mostly because there's no definite consensus and too many models and variations.


----------



## mbwilson111

Chifi said:


> the more i read these threads the less im sure which earbuds i actually want to buy  mostly because there's no definite consensus and too many models and variations.



There will never be a definite consensus.  How can there be?  Everyone has different hearing, different ear anatomy, different taste in music and sound signature.  Some people find treble piercing.  Others might find bass headache inducing.  Some people want music to energize them, while others want it to relax them.  You just need to digest all that you read and then try something.

What do you already have that you like or don't like?  You have not filled out your profile info so that makes it more difficult to help.  The site actually advises that we do fill out our profiles for that reason.


----------



## DatClampTho

Chifi said:


> the more i read these threads the less im sure which earbuds i actually want to buy  mostly because there's no definite consensus and too many models and variations.



Great thing is most earbuds are cheap so you can try many to see what suits your ears!


----------



## seanc6441

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> Looking at that google doc, those EMX500 buds seem to be highly-regarded.  Would those be these?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...dbcd2df&transAbTest=ae803_1&priceBeautifyAB=0
> 
> ...and are they that good?


They were a favourite until recently when more competition arrived. They have deep bass and a large soundstage, treble is detailed buy somewhat artificial sounding. Mids are a little recessed but full and warm. Still a good buy I'd say but not in a class of it's own anymore.


----------



## seanc6441 (May 24, 2018)

Philimon said:


> Thanks everyone for the replies.
> 
> I don't think this thread should be aborted. I'm saying maybe a quick guide would be helpful. Usually the original poster keeps post #1 updated - but don't blame him cause thread is huge.
> 
> ...


Neutral-mid centric (mild n shaped)?

Shozy bk $150 (exactly the signature you describe)

Possibly the new Willsound PK32 for $42 + shipping (chinmies description seems to support it being emphased with fuller mid bass and mids with great detail)

Not the graphenes... IMO they don't sound like the BK at all. Stronger brighter treble,sub and mid bass emphasis, weaker slightly more recessed vocal range. Detail is good though.


----------



## Chifi (May 24, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> There will never be a definite consensus.  How can there be?  Everyone has different hearing, different ear anatomy, different taste in music and sound signature.  Some people find treble piercing.  Others might find bass headache inducing.  Some people want music to energize them, while others want it to relax them.  You just need to digest all that you read and then try something.
> 
> What do you already have that you like or don't like?  You have not filled out your profile info so that makes it more difficult to help.  The site actually advises that we do fill out our profiles for that reason.



thanks. you and seanc6411 already tried to help me in that "absolute best budget earbuds" thread, but i'm still confused because people here rank these earbuds based on personal opinion (obviously). i've been mostly buying chinese IEMs like rock zircon, kz zst colorful, **** 4in1 with spinfit twinblade etc. zircons have some really really impressive bass, other 2 are great all around, but don't fit my ears well.

i have some earbuds that look exactly like apples earbuds but since they were given to me a while ago i'm not sure, anyway, they're very uncomfortable and don't sound good enough to me. the reason i want earbuds is so i can listen to music and also sleep with them, as regular IEMs are not good for long wearing and can cause ear infections, so i kind of think earbuds with foams are better for ear health overall as they don't protrude into your ear canal, i deformed my ear canals with foam plugs, so i dont want to worsen it with wearing iems anymore.

Anyway i'm mainly looking for earbuds that i can listen to on my PC, but mainly on my Samsung Galaxy S4 without an amp and i'm not sure if this phone can handle like 150 ohm impedance? i also ALWAYS tend to damage cables either at the jack or housing in couple of months time, **** pt15 have replaceable mmcx cables but apparently there are much better sounding earbuds out there? A lot of people here are raving about willsound mk1 mk2 mk3 but they're like 32$ + shipping from roluphat. i would prefer to buy them from aliexpress, but i also don't want them to be older than 2017, because apparently a lot of these earbuds are.

As far as music goes i listen to plenty of genres from electronic, disco, po,. jpop, rap, classical and also watch tv shows on my phone. so i guess that would mean all-around, maybe balanced? my budget is around $25, maybe a bit more if they're really good. i would also appreciate suggestions on earhooks and foam pads.



DatClampTho said:


> Great thing is most earbuds are cheap so you can try many to see what suits your ears!



i'm on a budget and i don't like having multiple things that basically serve the same purpose, while i can pay more and get 1 that's really good, because you're really just throwing money away. which imo is fine if this is your hobby, but im approaching this from utilitarian perspective.


----------



## seanc6441 (May 24, 2018)

Chifi said:


> thanks. you and seanc6411 already tried to help me in that "absolute best budget earbuds" thread, but i'm still confused because people here rank these earbuds based on personal opinion (obviously). i've been mostly buying chinese IEMs like rock zircon, kz zst colorful, **** 4in1 etc.
> zircons have some really really impressive bass, other 2 are great all around, but dont fit my ears well.
> 
> i have some earbuds that look exactly like apples earbuds but since they were given to me a while ago i'm not sure, anyway, they're very uncomfortable and don't sound good enough to me. the reason i want earbuds is so i can listen to music and also sleep with them, as regular IEMs are not good for long wearing and can cause ear infections, so i kind of think earbuds with foams are better for ear health overall as they don't protrude into your ear canal.
> ...


check out the new Yincrow RW-9 Clieos mentioned a few pages back. Might be just what you need.

Not a detachable cable but it’s not too expensive and the cable looks decent from the pictures.


----------



## Chifi

seanc6441 said:


> check out the new Yincrow RW-7 Clieos mentioned a few pages back. Might be just what you need.
> 
> Not a detachable cable but it’s not too expensive and the cable looks decent from the pictures.



you mean Yincrow RW-9? yeah they look pretty decent i'll definitely bookmark them. on a side now these apple earbuds i have just won't give out no matter how much i abuse them, despite them looking really fragile with thin, soft cables and tiny strain relief


----------



## Philimon

seanc6441 said:


> Neutral-mid centric (mild n shaped)?
> 
> Shozy bk $150 (exactly the signature you describe)
> 
> ...



Thanks so much. I've started a "cancel order" on aliexpress for the NiceHCK graphene.

I have the Auglamour RX1. Has anyone heard both RX1 and Shozy BK? $165! I wish I hadn't lost my Yuin PK1.


----------



## seanc6441 (May 24, 2018)

Chifi said:


> you mean Yincrow RW-9? yeah they look pretty decent i'll definitely bookmark them. on a side now these apple earbuds i have just won't give out no matter how much i abuse them, despite them looking really fragile with thin, soft cables and tiny strain relief


Yep rw-9 sorry, corrected it above. I used earpods for years, you'll appreciate the upgrade 

Remember mx500 shells found in the yincrows and most budget earbuds can be a little big in the ear, if they don't suit you there's smaller options available. Although I'd try them first as the are the most common shell type.


----------



## seanc6441 (May 24, 2018)

Philimon said:


> Thanks so much. I've started a "cancel order" on aliexpress for the NiceHCK graphene.
> 
> There seems to be inconsistencies in peoples opinion of the graphenes, some love it others don't (like me and chinmie) but I think its universally accepted around here that it's not a mid centric or vocal specialist. It's more of a mild V signature with lots of treble energy and decent bass impact.
> 
> I have the Auglamour RX1. Has anyone heard both RX1 and Shozy BK? $165! I wish I hadn't lost my Yuin PK1.


I have both. RX1 has very nice detail in the mids and vocals. Bass and treble are inoffensive and everything is smooth. The BK is like the worthy next step up for this signature with higher quality bass (more extension and tighter textured impact) and more natural and detailed treble.

I'd call both the BK and RX1 neutral-warm or 'natural' sounding. Both have thicker lower mids but sound clean overall. BK is more transparent and airy.

The only weakness of the bk is it's soundstage, it's no bigger than the RX1 but imaging and separation improves slightly maybe, not by much though.

Compared to other TOTL buds the BK is weakest in soundstage but is a midrange and vocal specialist. I love it but it cannot handle every genre. It has it's time and place.

I'd urge you to check out the willsound despite not being on aliexpress, getting lots of praise for its price tag and the pk32 variant sounds most similar by description to the BK. It may even be close SQ wise...

I'll have to check that out myself when I order one


----------



## waynes world

Philimon said:


> Thanks everyone for the replies.
> 
> So far I have the Auglamour RX1 which I really like but I wish the highs weren't as rolled off. I've ordered the NiceHCK DIY Graphene (old 2017 version) based on this review because it was compared well with Shozy BK but at much cheaper price. Now I am worried that review was unique. I've not found many reviews of these earbuds so it's hard to get a feel. I did find some helpful information on that other headphone forum (not reddit) that you can't name because you'll get banned, but I'm not sure I can relay that post here without getting in trouble. I will say that opinion I found there liked the old NiceHCK graphene but said it was a bit mid-recessed and the treble was fatiguing. Ugh. Why Aliexpress ship so slow?



Let me know what you think of the old graphenes once you get them. I for one love them. Mine broke, but a friend is going to try fixing them by recabling (balanced), and if that doesn't work, I'll be getting another pair.

The Willsounds seem to be all the rage lately (I have the MK2 on the way), so I would read about them in the last week or 2 of pages.


----------



## HungryPanda

I just got the "new" graphenes and like them as well as my "old" graphenes. I prefer the Fengru EMX500s but for the past 2 days cannot get the Svara L 's out of my ears


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> I just got the "new" graphenes and like them as well as my "old" graphenes. I prefer the Fengru EMX500s but for the past 2 days cannot get the Svara L 's out of my ears



Yeah, since my old graphenes died, I've been using my new graphenes for falling asleep to, and imo they are good. 

As far as the Svara L's are concerned, regardless of what other earbuds may come my way, they are always going to be favorites of mine - they truly do rock! Thanks for getting me onboard with them 



capnjack said:


> Mine spent a week like that and then Royal Mail delivered it while it was still showing the same message on 17Track



Funny - the same things just happened to me. The tracking still shows them lost over the pacific, but the delivery person just knocked on the door and gave them to me. She said that it "had the wrong code", so it couldn't be entered into the system (or something like that). Anyway, my day is now made - mk2 rev2' in da house!

Regarding these mk2's.... my brain is trying to get adjusted to the bombardment of aural goodness. But there is no doubt about it - they are fantastic!


----------



## waynes world

groucho69 said:


> Worth the wait



You're not kidding. I'm kind of freaking out by what I'm hearing. Lots going on.


----------



## HungryPanda

We are all lucky to be in audio heaven


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> mk2 rev2' in da house!
> 
> Regarding these mk2's.... my brain is trying to get adjusted to the bombardment of aural goodness. But there is no doubt about it - they are fantastic!



Glad you like them! Soo.. I'm not exaggerating what I said about the Willsound, right?


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> Glad you like them! Soo.. I'm not exaggerating what I said about the Willsound, right?



Yessir! 

I will try to describe what I am hearing after a while and after listening on more gear and to more tunes. But so far, it's just a very full, impactful and immersive sound. The bass is kind of perfect imo. Plenty of it, but I can't discern any muddiness or bleeding into the mids so far. I haven't been listening to much mid-centric or vocal-centric music yet, but the mids seem very full and present to me. And the highs are sparky and detailed without being fatiguing. Oh yeah, the soundstage, imaging and layering seems wonderful as well.

chinmie's hype is indeed *fact*!


----------



## handwander

This might be a question for the DIY earbud thread, but with the wealth of small maker buds available now, what is the main thing they are doing to differentiate the sound? Obviously not the shell, so are they using different drivers mostly, or is it just driver tuning with materials inside the shell? Cables as well I suppose.


----------



## 40760 (May 25, 2018)

waynes world said:


> Yessir!
> 
> I will try to describe what I am hearing after a while and after listening on more gear and to more tunes. But so far, it's just a very full, impactful and immersive sound. The bass is kind of perfect imo. Plenty of it, but I can't discern any muddiness or bleeding into the mids so far. I haven't been listening to much mid-centric or vocal-centric music yet, but the mids seem very full and present to me. And the highs are sparky and detailed without being fatiguing. Oh yeah, the soundstage, imaging and layering seems wonderful as well.
> 
> chinmie's hype is indeed *fact*!



Wait till after a full day of burning in... it only gets better! 

Edit: And I also now have a MK1 coming my way, alongside the replacement M3 and PK32...


----------



## chaiyuta

@handwander : soldering wire, cable, paracord, plug, and damping filter. You might easily read some japanese feedback of each products at Oyaide web store.


----------



## hatranle

Hi
Can anybody give email of Willsound. Tks


----------



## DBaldock9

hatranle said:


> Hi
> Can anybody give email of Willsound. Tks



Willy Jaya Lukito can be contacted through his Facebook profile - https://www.facebook.com/willy.j.lukito


----------



## haiku

Balanced Black ZOE in fully balanced set up


----------



## chaiyuta

OMG!! How many buds did you buy this month? Equinox, BEJO V.2, Nirvana, Ndoro BEY V.1, and VE ZOE +Silver Dragon Cable. Anything else?


----------



## haiku

Varna, White ZOE, DQSM Panda, 2 more earbuds by Sugeng Kanzenoka, Ampas, Qlabs and some others I cannot remember right now.


----------



## haiku (May 25, 2018)

Oh yeah, White Asura too. And Raid Copper.


----------



## chinmie

palestofwhite said:


> Wait till after a full day of burning in... it only gets better!
> 
> Edit: And I also now have a MK1 coming my way, alongside the replacement M3 and PK32...



@waynes world just like palestofwhite said, all willsound will get better sounding after hours of use. the will not change character, but the overall sound will be more coherent


----------



## haiku

Beautifully built and have the sweetest mids I´ve heard so far: Varna Varna earbuds.


----------



## daid1

haiku said:


> Varna, White ZOE, DQSM Panda, 2 more earbuds by Sugeng Kanzenoka, Ampas, Qlabs and some others I cannot remember right now.





haiku said:


> Oh yeah, White Asura too. And Raid Copper.



WHAT? When you have time can you make a list with the name of your earphone from the best in your opinion to the "worst" please? Hahah


----------



## Guggga

daid1 said:


> WHAT? When you have time can you make a list with the name of your earphone from the best in your opinion to the "worst" please? Hahah



Making a list like that is kinda pointless cus it will be so subjective. Moreover for these builder buds, it's more about being able to enjoy the different nuances of sound.
Eg : the varna and willsound. They're both warm and dynamic  very fun, but varna has more body in the mids while willsound is more balanced. Is one better than the other? As per my preferences, not.


----------



## snip3r77

haiku said:


> Beautifully built and have the sweetest mids I´ve heard so far: Varna Varna earbuds.


Captain America earbud?


----------



## Chifi

ClieOS said:


> Z Acoustics 'DaoMaDan' (刀马旦) balanced version
> Yincrow RW-9



can you do a quick review of Yincrow RW-9 please?


----------



## chaiyuta

May I know the taobao link of Z Acoustics 'DaoMaDan' (刀马旦) ?


----------



## ClieOS

Chifi said:


> can you do a quick review of Yincrow RW-9 please?



RW-9 is probably best described as the mid ground between the more V-shaped sounding X6 and the slightly mid focus RW-777.  It is still slightly V-shaped, but with a much better textured and detailed vocal range, making it the best belanced sound signature in the whole Yincrow lineup. While the overall SQ is about the same as RW-777 (which is about upper mid to lower high in my book), I actually prefer it over RW-777 as it is much more versatile when it comes to different music genres. All and all, I'll call it a win for Yincrow, especially since it is priced cheaper than RW-777.



chaiyuta said:


> May I know the taobao link of Z Acoustics 'DaoMaDan' (刀马旦) ?



【2018年老周平头耳塞耳机旗舰新品 刀马旦 盖世无双 AIR A8 MX980】http://m.tb.cn/h.WAf3xoG 点击链接，再选择浏览器打开；或复制这条信息￥mQdn0vkJPVW￥后打开淘宝[来自超级会员的分享]


----------



## FauDrei

Hi lads, an earbud newbie here... It took me a while to go through a couple hundred last pages of this thread and finally feel confident enough to ask.

I have some experience/preference of orthodynamic circumaurals and BA/hybrid IEMs and want to try earbuds. My primary sound preferences are soundstage (more specific: stage depth/positioning) and clarity/intelligibility. From the pages of this thread that I've went through I extrapolated that Masya and/or EBX might fit my liking, but I want to hear suggestions of earbud experts. Budget wise - EBX is already stretching it, Mojito is out of reach and Black Ling is science fiction.

So - where do I start? (Thanks in advance)


----------



## haiku

Guggga said:


> Making a list like that is kinda pointless cus it will be so subjective. Moreover for these builder buds, it's more about being able to enjoy the different nuances of sound.
> Eg : the varna and willsound. They're both warm and dynamic  very fun, but varna has more body in the mids while willsound is more balanced. Is one better than the other? As per my preferences, not.



Exactly my experience, Gugga!


----------



## capnjack

FauDrei said:


> Hi lads, an earbud newbie here... It took me a while to go through a couple hundred last pages of this thread and finally feel confident enough to ask.
> 
> I have some experience/preference of orthodynamic circumaurals and BA/hybrid IEMs and want to try earbuds. My primary sound preferences are soundstage (more specific: stage depth/positioning) and clarity/intelligibility. From the pages of this thread that I've went through I extrapolated that Masya and/or EBX might fit my liking, but I want to hear suggestions of earbud experts. Budget wise - EBX is already stretching it, Mojito is out of reach and Black Ling is science fiction.
> 
> So - where do I start? (Thanks in advance)


The Willsound buds are very popular on here at the moment $42 shipped inc tracking.


----------



## FauDrei

capnjack said:


> The Willsound buds are very popular on here at the moment $42 shipped inc tracking.


Thanks.

I suppose Mk2 would suit my preferences?


----------



## capnjack

FauDrei said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I suppose Mk2 would suit my preferences?


That depends, I personally prefer the mk.1rev2, not got quite so much mid-bass boost. It has more sub-bass


----------



## snip3r77

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/6bkrhy/battle_of_the_budget_earbuds/

I have a Vido, PT15 and upcoming Wilsound.

Should I get a Philips SHE 3800 to play?


----------



## mbwilson111

snip3r77 said:


> https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/6bkrhy/battle_of_the_budget_earbuds/
> 
> I have a Vido, PT15 and upcoming Wilsound.
> 
> Should I get a Philips SHE 3800 to play?



I enjoy my SHE 3800 very much.  Comfortable all rounder for me.  I like it enough that I bought a spare.  Mine was only £5. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Philips-...056657&hash=item4d5f2f61fd:g:yW4AAOSw3QpZbk~g

If you look at  my profile list, you will see what else I have.  I like all my buds.


----------



## snip3r77

mbwilson111 said:


> I enjoy my SHE 3800 very much.  Comfortable all rounder for me.  I like it enough that I bought a spare.  Mine was only £5.
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Philips-...056657&hash=item4d5f2f61fd:g:yW4AAOSw3QpZbk~g
> 
> If you look at  my profile list, you will see what else I have.  I like all my buds.



Thanks BTW why is so that the NiceHCK panda is good?


----------



## mbwilson111

snip3r77 said:


> Thanks BTW why is so that the NiceHCK panda is good?



I do not have the panda (earbud).


----------



## seanc6441 (May 25, 2018)

FauDrei said:


> Hi lads, an earbud newbie here... It took me a while to go through a couple hundred last pages of this thread and finally feel confident enough to ask.
> 
> I have some experience/preference of orthodynamic circumaurals and BA/hybrid IEMs and want to try earbuds. My primary sound preferences are soundstage (more specific: stage depth/positioning) and clarity/intelligibility. From the pages of this thread that I've went through I extrapolated that Masya and/or EBX might fit my liking, but I want to hear suggestions of earbud experts. Budget wise - EBX is already stretching it, Mojito is out of reach and Black Ling is science fiction.
> 
> So - where do I start? (Thanks in advance)





FauDrei said:


> Hi lads, an earbud newbie here... It took me a while to go through a couple hundred last pages of this thread and finally feel confident enough to ask.
> 
> I have some experience/preference of orthodynamic circumaurals and BA/hybrid IEMs and want to try earbuds. My primary sound preferences are soundstage (more specific: stage depth/positioning) and clarity/intelligibility. From the pages of this thread that I've went through I extrapolated that Masya and/or EBX might fit my liking, but I want to hear suggestions of earbud experts. Budget wise - EBX is already stretching it, Mojito is out of reach and Black Ling is science fiction.
> 
> So - where do I start? (Thanks in advance)


On one hand the Masya would suit your preference of spacious soundstage and clarity. But it's a lighter presentation in terms of the soundstage being more located on two planar surfaces left and right, rather than focusing on depth and holographic presentation. Now compared to many budget offerings this isn't an issue, but compared to my Black Ling for example, a bud that has amazing depth layering and accurate holografic imaging, the Masya is a lighter sound indeed (which is a nice change sometimes).

It does extend well in both directions for an earbud, bass has just enough depth and a slightly arcing mid bass for warmth and punch. Mids are crystal clear and light, treble extension is very good and it presents light and airy with good detail.

The dual driver setup and 12-16 ohm impendance can cause issues with some sources, pairing synergy can be an important factor with the masya.

Overall I'd describe it as warmer down low and brighter up top (quiet bright actually) and with a spacious soundstage but lacking in the finer imaging accuracy and 3D holographic presentation compared to some other TOTL buds around $100-250.

I have my Masya setup with my Mojito cable + white full foams (very picky about foams but these seem to give the best balance compared to some of my other black full foams, one of the only foams that took 90% of the grain out of the vocals). I'm really enjoying it for a lighter airy sound with a clear and brighter tonality.




In some ways I prefer this pairing than the mojito itself... Especially for vocal and acoustic, Mojito is too recessed in the mids to enjoy those genres and has some harshness due to the extreme detail retrieval.


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> I do not have the panda (earbud).



yes you do...oooh, he meant the earbuds.. I've misread..sorry


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> yes you do...oooh, he meant the earbuds.. I've misread..sorry



I wondered if anyone would catch on


----------



## dheepak10

Published my impression of the Willsound MK2 Rev.2 here:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/willsound-mk2-rev-2.23119/reviews#review-20357


----------



## waynes world (May 25, 2018)

dheepak10 said:


> Published my impression of the Willsound MK2 Rev.2 here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/willsound-mk2-rev-2.23119/reviews#review-20357



Nice review! I love your list of test tracks. I hadn't heard "Shibuya by Covet" or "Two Against Nature by Steely Dan", so I checked them out. Excellent.

You seem to know your instruments and how to describe what you're hearing. Musician or recording engineer perhaps? Anyway, enjoyable read 

Although I do hear the slightly more elevated mid-bass, I have a harder time discerning the "bleeds a bit into the mids". It's probably just my iron ears, but also it must be fairly slight. So for me there are no cons with the mk2! Actually, the cable's tangle factor is a slight niggle, but that's about it.

You also mentioned that you don't use foams. I have typically found that I need them to achieve a proper seal (ie to reduce treble or increase bass a smidge). So far I've only been using the foams supplied with the mk2's and am enjoying them. But i look forward to trying the mk2's with other foams - and without - once they are fully settled in.

Cheers


----------



## dheepak10

waynes world said:


> Nice review! I love your list of test tracks. I hadn't heard "Shibuya by Covet" or "Two Against Nature by Steely Dan", so I checked them out. Excellent.
> 
> You seem to know your instruments and how to describe what you're hearing. Musician or recording engineer perhaps? Anyway, enjoyable read
> 
> Cheers



Glad you liked it. I'm an IT consultant by profession .

MK2 is a really great bud and I need to thank the people of this thread for introducing the bud to me.


----------



## Chifi (May 25, 2018)

*@mbwilson111*

hey, i see you have MEMT T5. how do they fare up against other earbuds in your collection?


----------



## mbwilson111

Chifi said:


> *@mbwilson111*
> 
> hey, i see you have MEMT T5 in your collection. how do they fare up against other earbuds in your collection?



Planning to give them a good listen this weekend.  I don't really think of them the same as my buds because they are a pod.  Very comfortable but it has been a couple of months since I used them.  I know I liked them.

I have been getting too much...hard to keep track.  I don't just use buds.  I also have numerous IEMs and some very nice headphones.


----------



## Chifi

no problem. thanks for help.


----------



## FauDrei

seanc6441 said:


> On one hand the Masya would suit your preference of spacious soundstage and clarity...


Thanks for describing Masya's sound to me in a way that I can really understand. I tend to have difficulties with audio-sommelierist tounge. 

So, your pick in my situation would be Masya?


----------



## haiku

ME-Q Finesto 32 M8 R & Z earbuds by Sugeng Kanzenoka.


----------



## seanc6441 (May 25, 2018)

FauDrei said:


> Thanks for describing Masya's sound to me in a way that I can really understand. I tend to have difficulties with audio-sommelierist tounge.
> 
> So, your pick in my situation would be Masya?


I don't think I've listened to an earbud in the sub $100 range that has a truly deep and holographic soundstage like you describe. But I'm sure others have so I think it's best you hear out others opinions first and keep the Masya as an option for now.

From my collection I'd say Black Ling then Masya/Penon BS1 but the BS1 has fit issues for some and heavy cable so I've stopped recommending it for now.

Obviously the ling is way over budget (I got it for $195 on sale) though. So of the earbuds I've heard Masya is next in line that I can recommend.


----------



## krunchcrispy

ClieOS said:


> Z Acoustics 'DaoMaDan' (刀马旦) balanced version
> Yincrow RW-9


Hey ClieOS, I really love my X6, except for the recessed mids: love the deep bass and the extended but sweet treble.  Would you say the RW-9 still keeps these characteristics, but brings forward the mids a bit more?


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 25, 2018)

krunchcrispy said:


> Hey ClieOS, I really love my X6, except for the recessed mids: love the deep bass and the extended but sweet treble.  Would you say the RW-9 still keeps these characteristics, but brings forward the mids a bit more?



Do you mean the Yincrow X6?  I have that and a MEMT X6.   Both in red  That RW-9 looks nice.


----------



## ClieOS

krunchcrispy said:


> Hey ClieOS, I really love my X6, except for the recessed mids: love the deep bass and the extended but sweet treble.  Would you say the RW-9 still keeps these characteristics, but brings forward the mids a bit more?



Everything is relative - you can't change one part of the frequency response without having it effects the overall tonal balance as a whole. I'll say, by bring the mid more forward, RW-9 is not quite as V-shaped in sound as X6.


----------



## krunchcrispy

ClieOS said:


> Everything is relative - you can't change one part of the frequency response without having it effects the overall tonal balance as a whole. I'll say, by bring the mid more forward, RW-9 is not quite as V-shaped in sound as X6.


Thanks for the input.  Very helpful, indeed.


----------



## Guggga

Box is like a life of chocolates


----------



## snip3r77

Guggga said:


> Box is like a life of chocolates


Stock check pls


----------



## mbwilson111

snip3r77 said:


> Stock check pls



Patience.  I think there will be more photos


----------



## handwander

Are any of the Indonesian buds as easy to get for international buyers as stuff on rholupat or is it just depending on kind people from facebook for the rest?


----------



## haiku

The wonderful Bejo V2


----------



## mbwilson111

haiku said:


> The wonderful Bejo V2



Is that a purple cable?  Hmmmm....


----------



## snip3r77

haiku said:


> The wonderful Bejo V2



Looks like SHE-3800.


----------



## mbwilson111

snip3r77 said:


> Looks like SHE-3800.



I think that is an Edifier shell. I can read it in the photo.


----------



## Guggga

snip3r77 said:


> Stock check pls



Mk1  rev1, mk3, mk300, pk32 and a budday gift by Willy - recabled and retuned RY4S.

Already had the mk1 rev 2, mk2 rev 2 and Mk2 rev 1 special edition.


----------



## chinmie

Guggga said:


> Mk1  rev1, mk3, mk300, pk32 and a budday gift by Willy - recabled and retuned RY4S.
> 
> Already had the mk1 rev 2, mk2 rev 2 and Mk2 rev 1 special edition.



Willsound galore! which one suits you the most?


----------



## Guggga (May 26, 2018)

chinmie said:


> Willsound galore! which one suits you the most?



Man, thats like choosing between my fingers, I like them all honestly. They all sound different but can't say they sound lacking anywhere. Earlier was listening to the mk1 rev 1 and my god, that bass. Then the pk32 and its incredible clarity, Soundstage and bass quantity wrt the yuin shells, amazing!!

Now listening to the mk300 off my zishan z1 and the easy listening punchy layered sound is so enjoyable.

Hard to find fault with any of them for me.

In comparison, I never liked my edimun v3 rho and had it sold in a week , never got the hype.


----------



## snip3r77

Guggga said:


> Mk1  rev1, mk3, mk300, pk32 and a budday gift by Willy - recabled and retuned RY4S.
> 
> Already had the mk1 rev 2, mk2 rev 2 and Mk2 rev 1 special edition.


Can I have some comparo btw mk 1 , 2 and 3 ?


----------



## 40760

Guggga said:


> Box is like a life of chocolates



That's Willsound for months!


----------



## chinmie

Guggga said:


> Man, thats like choosing between my fingers, I like them all honestly. They all sound different but can't say they sound lacking anywhere. Earlier was listening to the mk1 rev 1 and my god, that bass. Then the pk32 and its incredible clarity, Soundstage and bass quantity wrt the yuin shells, amazing!!
> 
> Now listening to the mk300 off my zishan z1 and the easy listening punchy layered sound is so enjoyable.
> 
> ...



i know the feeling, it's hard to choose. if i was a mutant ninja turtle and only have three fingers though, i would  choose the PK32, MK2 rev1, and the MK3.

the PK32 has opened up more, the soundstage got more relaxed and spread nicely, and the overall sound becomes more mature and polished. in fact, all the Willsound that i tried have that characteristics.. they all matured with hours of use. 

haven't got the chance to do a shootout, but if only from memory, this PK32 might as well be the best yuin shell earbuds for me


----------



## Guggga

I agree about the pk32, for the size and comfort, they are just mind blowing plus they play well with my lg v20 off the uapp player strwaming tidal and also the zishan z1 - the zishan really make them open up and they're like baby mks. They'll only get better with use I guess. 

The mk1 rev 1 are stunning too off the lg v20


----------



## haiku

Guggga said:


> I agree about the pk32, for the size and comfort, they are just mind blowing plus they play well with my lg v20 off the uapp player strwaming tidal and also the zishan z1 - the zishan really make them open up and they're like baby mks. They'll only get better with use I guess.
> 
> The mk1 rev 1 are stunning too off the lg v20



You don´t know how good they really are when you add a good amp.


----------



## dheepak10

Hey everyone, just published my impression of the Willsound MK1 Rev. 2 here. Hope I've covered all bases 
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/willsound-mk1-rev-2.23120/reviews#review-20362


----------



## seanc6441

haiku said:


> You don´t know how good they really are when you add a good amp.


Just need the high gain trick for the V20 if that’s the case


----------



## haiku

seanc6441 said:


> Just need the high gain trick for the V20 if that’s the case



Not enough power. VE runabout much better. Try it some time when you get the chance. You will be stunned. Until then have a great time with your gear!


----------



## seanc6441

haiku said:


> Not enough power. VE runabout much better. Try it some time when you get the chance. You will be stunned. Until then have a great time with your gear!


Do you find only some earbuds benefit or the majority of them? Even if they are low impendance like I believe the MK1,2 and PK32.

The most powerful source I’ve heard is the 300mw balanced R6 with my TO400s but I hardly had a large enough sample group to know if it benefits lower impendance buds too.


----------



## waynes world

dheepak10 said:


> Hey everyone, just published my impression of the Willsound MK1 Rev. 2 here. Hope I've covered all bases
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/willsound-mk1-rev-2.23120/reviews#review-20362



Awesome - thanks. Please get the Svara L 32ohms and work your review magic tracks on them   (I think you'd like them)


----------



## haiku

seanc6441 said:


> Do you find only some earbuds benefit or the majority of them? Even if they are low impendance like I believe the MK1,2 and PK32.
> 
> The most powerful source I’ve heard is the 300mw balanced R6 with my TO400s but I hardly had a large enough sample group to know if it benefits lower impendance buds too.



Most benefit, even low impedance like the Willsound. There are low impedance buds though where an additional amp make the sound quality worse, like the buds by Sugeng Kanzenoka. They sound clearly better straight out of a Dap or Smartphone.


----------



## waynes world

As @mbwilson111 is prone to do, I just "got lost in the music" 

All it took is one of my favorite albums, combined with the amazing mk2's...


----------



## HungryPanda

@waynes world One of my favourite albums too


----------



## waynes world (May 26, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> @waynes world One of my favourite albums too



Yup. Masterpiece.

Edit: just started listening to Thick as a Brick. Could be a long enjoyable evening


----------



## capnjack

waynes world said:


> As @mbwilson111 is prone to do, I just "got lost in the music"
> 
> All it took is one of my favorite albums, combined with the amazing mk2's...



Damn, I forgot how good this album was. Thanks for the reminder!


----------



## HungryPanda

It was a wonderful music world when I was a teenager. Right now I'm listening to Mark Knopfler's "Shangri-La"


----------



## Guggga

snip3r77 said:


> Can I have some comparo btw mk 1 , 2 and 3 ?


Listening to the mk3 off the zishan z1. 

I'll just say that you're gonna be a happy camper. They look sinister in all black and the bass is lovely alongwith the rest of thr range.


----------



## snip3r77

Guggga said:


> Listening to the mk3 off the zishan z1.
> 
> I'll just say that you're gonna be a happy camper. They look sinister in all black and the bass is lovely alongwith the rest of thr range.


Thanks will patiently await the delivery of this bad ass


----------



## handwander

Think this is new. Faaeal F400 400ohm. 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FAA...-SPC-Cable-Female-Voice-Bass/32880242420.html


----------



## mbwilson111

handwander said:


> Think this is new. Faaeal F400 400ohm.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FAA...-SPC-Cable-Female-Voice-Bass/32880242420.html



I think that and this Faaeal Rosemary 150ohm that I have coming are new.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...00-earbud-Heavy-bass-earbuds/32858195175.html

Nice looking cable on that 400ohm one.


----------



## bonson

This Faaeal 400 ohm look similar to T-Music V5 400 ohm 2018 , same cable, plug and split only color shell is different. Wonder if they sound similar?
. T-Music is cheaper.
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/2018...-b8ac-1a0afc36e64c,scm-url:1007.13339.99734.0


----------



## rkw

Simphonio Dragon 2+ for $240 on Massdrop ($320 at Penon Audio). Drop closes in 5 days.
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/simphonio-dragon-2-earbuds

Which leaves me in the usual quandary about premium earbuds that use generic shells. If I spend that much on an earbud, I'd like it to look and feel premium.


----------



## mbwilson111

rkw said:


> Simphonio Dragon 2+ for $240 on Massdrop ($320 at Penon Audio). Drop closes in 5 days.
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/simphonio-dragon-2-earbuds
> 
> Which leaves me in the usual quandary about premium earbuds that use generic shells. If I spend that much on an earbud, I'd like it to look and feel premium.



I could never spend that on a bud or iem... too fragile


----------



## EH-Yeon (May 27, 2018)

My first gen zen just broke. So, here am I again in search for the new earbud. Any suggestion?
- oxidised cable and finally the wrapper broke.

Edit:

Currently looking at
- Shozy bk limited edition or the black
- mojito (size a little too big i think)
- re-buy yuin pk1 (broke by my ex for cleaning it together with my clothes in the washing machine)

Is the dragon+ on the massdrop good?  as posted on the person above.


----------



## seanc6441 (May 27, 2018)

rkw said:


> Simphonio Dragon 2+ for $240 on Massdrop ($320 at Penon Audio). Drop closes in 5 days.
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/simphonio-dragon-2-earbuds
> 
> Which leaves me in the usual quandary about premium earbuds that use generic shells. If I spend that much on an earbud, I'd like it to look and feel premium.


What's Massdrops shipping like outside USA though? Don't you get screwed with taxes? Or does this ship from Asia?

It's tempting except I always hear people moaning about Massdrop being only beneficial to US customers.

Oh I see you are in the US so it's definitely worth it to you. I would avail of this offer too most likely if I was there because I really want to hear this bud.


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 27, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> What's Massdrops shipping like outside USA though? Don't you get screwed with taxes? Or does this ship from Asia?
> 
> It's tempting except I always hear people moaning about Massdrop being only beneficial to US customers.
> 
> Oh I see you are in the US so it's definitely worth it to you. I would avail of this offer too most likely if I was there because I really want to hear this bud.



Massdrop ships from the US

With everything we have had sent to the UK we have paid the 20% VAT plus an additional customs fee if the value is above a certain amount... would have to look it up.   Plus the £11 DHL fee (no matter what the cost of the item) or £8 if it is Royal Mail.  Kind of erases any "deal."

Massdrop always declares the full amount and no packages from them sneak through.

It is really only worth it for a unique item that you cannot get any other way and you really really want.


----------



## seanc6441 (May 27, 2018)

EH-Yeon said:


> My first gen zen just broke. So, here am I again in search for the new earbud. Any suggestion?
> - oxidised cable and finally the wrapper broke.
> 
> Edit:
> ...


Bk blue just adds a slight resolution increase and slightly more separation than standard bk as it's not a new driver but a cable upgrade according to the knowledgeable user clieOS. His preference in terms of price-performance was for the 2.5mm balanced bk black overall AFAIK because it had enough separation and the smoother quality of the copper cable which he seemed to enjoy over the more analytical bk blue I guess. I have the bk black and it's a great earbud with a high level of resolution already but suffers from a smallish soundstage. But its more vocal and mid orientated than impressive bass and treble extension. Although maybe the bk blue adds more extension not sure, the search function may help you find his post on it. Bk blue for 3.5mm and bk black for 2.5mm was his preference if I remember correctly.

Mojito is just a way different beast, I don't think its the upgrade you'll look for though. It's extremely analytical and revealing of detail but it's vocals and upper mids are recessed and it's really only suited to classical and jazz tbh. (I own this too)

Dragon s2+ is really promising and highly praised but Massdrop shipping policy outside the US will envoke taxes right? Could end up being costly like the stock price.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Massdrop ships from the US
> 
> With everything we have had sent to the UK we have paid the 20% VAT plus an additional customs fee if the value is above a certain amount... would have to look it up.   Plus the £11 DHL fee (no matter what the cost of the item) or £8 if it is Royal Mail.  Kind of erases any "deal."
> 
> ...


that's what I feared thanks for confirming, DHL in particular are real money grabbers when it comes to the 'fees' which they add on because they can.


----------



## silverfishla

mbwilson111 said:


> I could never spend that on a bud or iem... too fragile


It's funny reading what the Massdrop community is questioning about these earbuds and their price.  In some ways, I've come to agree with it after buying about 30 earbuds.  There has to be some kind of effort to make the housings nicer on a $200+ earbud.  When you see something like the new Campfire Audio Comets (for $200), these just don't make sense anymore for that kind of money.  IMO...


----------



## mbwilson111

silverfishla said:


> It's funny reading what the Massdrop community is questioning about these earbuds and their price.  In some ways, I've come to agree with it after buying about 30 earbuds.  There has to be some kind of effort to make the housings nicer on a $200+ earbud.  When you see something like the new Campfire Audio Comets (for $200), these just don't make sense anymore for that kind of money.  IMO...



well... I did see a photo of a bud with a solid silver shell...maybe there are gold ones also.

Encrust them with diamonds or rubies or emeralds...


----------



## 40760

Think earbuds are really too niche and old school (obsolete?) for the general "audio" market...


----------



## seanc6441

silverfishla said:


> It's funny reading what the Massdrop community is questioning about these earbuds and their price.  In some ways, I've come to agree with it after buying about 30 earbuds.  There has to be some kind of effort to make the housings nicer on a $200+ earbud.  When you see something like the new Campfire Audio Comets (for $200), these just don't make sense anymore for that kind of money.  IMO...


Yeah gotta agree with that. They could use the yuin shell even just make a metal version... Seems like a money saving scheme to me rather than a SQ element as we know metal shell earbuds are already used effectively in earbuds like Moondrop nameless up to liebesleid or K's ling/poseidon.


----------



## seanc6441 (May 27, 2018)

palestofwhite said:


> Think earbuds are really too niche and old school (obsolete?) for the general "audio" market...


Maybe not the general audio market but the 'audiophile' market is a realistic goal. To compete with the audiophile grade IEM'S and portable headphones would be the best possible outcome, at least up to a certain price point like $1-300 as I don't think we will see $800-1000 earbuds to compete with high end IEM'S 

I don't think it will ever become mainstream to regular users because isolation is a key factor these days as 99% of regular users will be looking for this feature.


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> To compete with the audiophile grade IEM'S and portable headphones would be the best possible outcome, at least up to a certain price point like $1-300 as I don't think we will see $800-1000 earbuds to compete with high end IEM'S .



That's true! Earbuds have only recently crept to the ~$300 range. I think it'll be hard press to witness them going for >$800... 

But wait... what about those exotic Lamia earbuds with precious metal cables?


----------



## Yobster69

seanc6441 said:


> that's what I feared thanks for confirming, DHL in particular are real money grabbers when it comes to the 'fees' which they add on because they can.


Hi Sean, Massdrop deals are only good to us over this side of the Atlantic if it’s a Massdrop only product and can’t be bought elsewhere. The only item I’ve bought is the Fostex THX-00, as I had coveted the TH-900 for some time and as these were as near as possible to those so I went for it. I think it cost an extra £40 on top of the phones, which still saved me hundreds over the 900’s, so I didn’t even worry about it.  
I nearly went for the Cavelli hybrid amp, but decided against it at the last moment. 
Buy from them wisely.


----------



## noknok23

seanc6441 said:


> Maybe not the general audio market but the 'audiophile' market is a realistic goal. To compete with the audiophile grade IEM'S and portable headphones would be the best possible outcome, at least up to a certain price point like $1-300 as I don't think we will see $800-1000 earbuds to compete with high end IEM'S
> 
> I don't think it will ever become mainstream to regular users because isolation is a key factor these days as 99% of regular users will be looking for this feature.


I read simphonio is about to release a new flagship in the $1000 price range in July (I think 6,000RMB). With custom ceramic drivers, get ready.
I think high-end earbuds make more sense in China/south east asia because it's too hot and humid there to wear full size open back headphones half of the year


----------



## Carrow

Picked up a VE Asura 2.0 w/ Neutrik cable for $65 :3


----------



## kurtextrem

Aw, the MassDrop deal on the Dragon 2+ looks so good...


----------



## seanc6441

kurtextrem said:


> Aw, the MassDrop deal on the Dragon 2+ looks so good...


Agreed. About the price I'd be willing to pay for it. Massdrop is missing out on a huge market by not having even just a single warehouse in the EU...


----------



## seanc6441 (May 27, 2018)

noknok23 said:


> I read simphonio is about to release a new flagship in the $1000 price range in July (I think 6,000RMB). With custom ceramic drivers, get ready.
> I think high-end earbuds make more sense in China/south east asia because it's too hot and humid there to wear full size open back headphones half of the year


Damn that's some ambitious pricing... Would love to hear it. At that price it's competing with the likes of the CA andromeda almost...


----------



## rkw

noknok23 said:


> I read simphonio is about to release a new flagship in the $1000 price range in July (I think 6,000RMB). With custom ceramic drivers, get ready.


Hopefully not with a cheap plastic Yuin shell!


----------



## HungryPanda

It would have to be amazing in every way at that price


----------



## waynes world

EH-Yeon said:


> My first gen zen just broke. So, here am I again in search for the new earbud. Any suggestion?
> - oxidised cable and finally the wrapper broke.
> 
> Edit:
> ...



A very sad day for you indeed! The Zen 1 is very special.

But do not fear - three are other white earbuds out there!   For example, the $44US Willsound MK2. Oh yeah, it also sounds pretty darned good. Doing some ab'ing with my zen 1's, and the mk2's hold their own. In fact, the mid-bass and treble is more pronounced than with the zen 1's which are more aid back, but the mk2's are rather addictive.

Anyway, good luck in your quest!


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> It was a wonderful music world when I was a teenager. Right now I'm listening to Mark Knopfler's "Shangri-La"




That was really nice! I listen to Dire Straits a lot (I love Telegraph Road), but I'm going to have to check out his solo stuff. Thanks!


----------



## ClieOS

palestofwhite said:


> That's true! Earbuds have only recently crept to the ~$300 range. I think it'll be hard press to witness them going for >$800...
> 
> But wait... what about those exotic Lamia earbuds with precious metal cables?



Guess you don't know about the custom order platinum/gold alloy K's Poseidon that costs just a little over US$4700.


----------



## snip3r77

Anyone tried this?

http://www.fiio.net/en/products/86


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> That was really nice! I listen to Dire Straits a lot (I love Telegraph Road), but I'm going to have to check out his solo stuff. Thanks!



His solo stuff is great!  BTW the Telegraph Road in that song goes right through my Michigan town of Monroe.  Driven on it many times...south to Toledo... north to Detroit...


----------



## handwander

rkw said:


> Hopefully not with a cheap plastic Yuin shell!


lol this is the worst. Maybe it's objectively fine and people are just spoiled because of iem variations but these 3-4 digit buds using the same basic shell always looks weird.


----------



## Blazer39

looking for recommendation for earbud to enjoy with hiby r3( coming next week), according to reviews the R3 is a warm DAP, so looking for something on the brighter side...any suggestion would be helpful 

i listen mostly to melodic/progressive metal(any type of metal really) and rock occasionally..looking for something with fast bass attack/response and good instrument separation, budget around 50$ can go to 100$ if really worth it..currently looking at :
1-BEY V.01( from http://www.rholupat.com)
2- VE asura 2.0

fan of grado/byerdynamic headphones and ostry IEMs...if that helps


----------



## golov17

snip3r77 said:


> Anyone tried this?
> 
> http://www.fiio.net/en/products/86


Yes. But not very good.. just normal


----------



## snip3r77

golov17 said:


> Yes. But not very good.. just normal


Thanks for saving my $


----------



## DBaldock9

My VE Asura 2.0 has great Midrange & Treble, with very detailed - but less quantity of Bass.

Some other good sounding earbuds in the $50 - $100 range, are the ToneKing _TO_ series, with models at 65Ω, 150Ω, 200Ω, & 400Ω (I have the 200 & 400).  This series has MMCX connectors, so you can use the type of cable that you want (3.5mm TRS; 3.5mm TRRS (w/Mic & Audio Controls); 2.5mm TRRS Balanced, etc.).

My favorite earbuds, right at (or just over) $100, is the K's 500Ω model  (I have the 2.5mm TRRS Balanced, which was $108).


----------



## capnjack

Just found/ordered these on Facebook - Uairekko buds. Anybody got any of his buds? Sound impressions?


----------



## DBaldock9

capnjack said:


> Just found/ordered these on Facebook - Uairekko buds. Anybody got any of his buds? Sound impressions?



There are more than 40 mentions of _Uairekko_ in this thread, going back to February of 2017.


----------



## Blazer39

DBaldock9 said:


> My VE Asura 2.0 has great Midrange & Treble, with very detailed - but less quantity of Bass.
> 
> Some other good sounding earbuds in the $50 - $100 range, are the ToneKing _TO_ series, with models at 65Ω, 150Ω, 200Ω, & 400Ω (I have the 200 & 400).  This series has MMCX connectors, so you can use the type of cable that you want (3.5mm TRS; 3.5mm TRRS (w/Mic & Audio Controls); 2.5mm TRRS Balanced, etc.).
> 
> My favorite earbuds, right at (or just over) $100, is the K's 500Ω model  (I have the 2.5mm TRRS Balanced, which was $108).



are talking about these?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot...phone-Earbud-500-ohms-Earbud/32751502658.html

whats the sound signature?


----------



## kurtextrem

To people that have both K's Black Ling and the Dragon 2+ (@ClieOS, @golov17 ?): Would you guys say the Dragon 2+ is a great upgrade over the K's Black Ling?
I'm asking because the Black Ling costs around 249$ (cheaper with coupons), but stuff from China usually doesn't trigger customs. 
On the other hand, the Dragon 2+ is 240$ on MassDrop, but will probably trigger customs (so around 30% on top...).


----------



## ClieOS

kurtextrem said:


> To people that have both K's Black Ling and the Dragon 2+ (@ClieOS, @golov17 ?): Would you guys say the Dragon 2+ is a great upgrade over the K's Black Ling?
> I'm asking because the Black Ling costs around 249$ (cheaper with coupons), but stuff from China usually doesn't trigger customs.
> On the other hand, the Dragon 2+ is 240$ on MassDrop, but will probably trigger customs (so around 30% on top...).



They both have things that they do better than the other. Black Ling has sweet vocal and good lower body, where Dragon 2+ has life-like soundstage and better treble detail. Though I personally would rate Dragon 2+ a little higher than Black Ling, I think they both belong to the ToTL category. The biggest difference to me is that Dragon 2+ has a more versatile sound where Black Ling is more geared for mainstream music.


----------



## seanc6441 (May 28, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> They both have things that they do better than the other. Black Ling has sweet vocal and good lower body, where Dragon 2+ has life-like soundstage and better treble detail. Though I personally would rate Dragon 2+ a little higher than Black Ling, I think they both belong to the ToTL category. The biggest difference to me is that Dragon 2+ has a more versatile sound where Black Ling is more geared for mainstream music.


The more I listen to my Black Ling and try to go back to other earbuds the more I realise that it needs some pretty extensive EQ to sound natural.

I think it's not just an frequency issue but the design which makes it sound like you are listening to music in a large chamber... There seems to be some reflections going on in that unvented shell.

EQ kind of alleviates the problem but it definitely is a unique sound presentation to say the least. I think that's also why it's imaging and soundstage are not quite like anything I've heard before. How it's able to play sound with such layering, some from within the head to other that are far out.

I didn't realise how funky this earbud sounded at first because I attributed it to my brain needing to adjust, but it still sounds abit weird a month later. EQing has helped a lot to make it sound natural though, takes the edge off a peak between 1-2khz and at 6-8khz (trying to remember off the top of my head so may not be exact) also which was killing my ears on some tracks.

The drivers themselves have the most amazing extension though without sacrificing almost any frequency along the way. That's why I'm willing to work on getting them to sound natural because the drivers are like mini full size headphone drivers in the way they extend.


----------



## golov17 (May 28, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> They both have things that they do better than the other. Black Ling has sweet vocal and good lower body, where Dragon 2+ has life-like soundstage and better treble detail. Though I personally would rate Dragon 2+ a little higher than Black Ling, I think they both belong to the ToTL category. The biggest difference to me is that Dragon 2+ has a more versatile sound where Black Ling is more geared for mainstream music.


absolutely agree with the opinion of the esteemed Mr. @ClieOS


----------



## RobinFood

The Dragon 2+ seems to have achieved a large soundstage with the small Yuin shells, which was the main complaint of other buds with that shell.
Sounds like it might be worth it just for that.
I don't care much about the Black Ling, but how does it compare to the Liebesleid? I am still wondering if I should save up for it. 
I almost got it but had a long commute at the time and went for the ER4XR, and I can't put on my Yincrow X6s or a-900s anymore.
In fact, I can't listen to anything else for the last 3 months, but I get annoyed by the extreme isolation sometimes (or rather my wife does...).

I would love to save up for a TOTL bud, but the clearness and naturalness of the ER4XRs make it hard to listen to funky V-shapes or noisy dynamic drivers.
Is there anything comparable to the natural ety sound in the earbud world right now?


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> The Dragon 2+ seems to have achieved a large soundstage with the small Yuin shells, which was the main complaint of other buds with that shell.
> Sounds like it might be worth it just for that.
> I don't care much about the Black Ling, but how does it compare to the Liebesleid? I am still wondering if I should save up for it.
> I almost got it but had a long commute at the time and went for the ER4XR, and I can't put on my Yincrow X6s or a-900s anymore.
> ...



from memory, the Liebesleid has a more forward and a thicker toned mids compared to the Dragon 2+, making the overall soundstage bigger, while the liebesleid the vocals and music is closer (but still wide sounding). again, from memory, the Willsound PK32 soundstage reminds me of the Dragon 2+


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> from memory, the Liebesleid has a more forward and a thicker toned mids compared to the Dragon 2+, making the overall soundstage bigger, while the liebesleid the vocals and music is closer (but still wide sounding). again, from memory, the Willsound PK32 soundstage reminds me of the Dragon 2+



Thanks a lot for the reply!

I see you also have the ER4XR in your collection. If I consider the ER4XR sound as my end-game sound, do you think any of those earbuds will be satisfying?

Also, how do you go about ordering the PK32 and how much was it?


----------



## seanc6441

RobinFood said:


> Thanks a lot for the reply!
> 
> I see you also have the ER4XR in your collection. If I consider the ER4XR sound as my end-game sound, do you think any of those earbuds will be satisfying?
> 
> Also, how do you go about ordering the PK32 and how much was it?


Willsound on facebook messanger you can order directly with paypal.

Just ordered the PK32 ($40) and MK2 rev 2 ($30). $70 total plus $15 shipping. Took a total of 5 minutes to order he replied fast


----------



## dheepak10

Guess who is here? @WillSound - Willy Jaya Lukito!!


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> Thanks a lot for the reply!
> 
> I see you also have the ER4XR in your collection. If I consider the ER4XR sound as my end-game sound, do you think any of those earbuds will be satisfying?
> 
> Also, how do you go about ordering the PK32 and how much was it?



for me, yes. even with the Etys and my other iems, i still like earbuds very much. for me it's easier to enjoy going to earbuds from iems, and harder the other way around (i have to re-adjust my ears a bit longer). not to mention other benefits like better marriage life and relationship with my son (with iems, they tend to jumpscare me a lot). From the ER4XR you can get The Dragon 2+, Liebesleid, PK32, or BK for a balanced sound

you can order the PK32 from the builder https://www.facebook.com/willy.j.lukito or from http://www.rholupat.com ,but i see rholupat currently doesn't have it on stock


----------



## snip3r77

chinmie said:


> from memory, the Liebesleid has a more forward and a thicker toned mids compared to the Dragon 2+, making the overall soundstage bigger, while the liebesleid the vocals and music is closer (but still wide sounding). again, from memory, the Willsound PK32 soundstage reminds me of the Dragon 2+


How does the wilsound compares to those Total that you mentioned


----------



## WillSound

dheepak10 said:


> Guess who is here? @WillSound - Willy Jaya Lukito!!


hallo...I'm here finally.
first i need to say thank to you all for supporting WillSound.


----------



## HungryPanda

WillSound said:


> hallo...I'm here finally.
> first i need to say thank to you all for supporting WillSound.


Welcome and thanks for making wonderful earbuds


----------



## chinmie

snip3r77 said:


> How does the wilsound compares to those Total that you mentioned



SQ and soundstage-wise i'd say they can as well be TOTL contender. beside the Liebesleid, the MK2 and PK32 are my current most used earbuds


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> SQ and soundstage-wise i'd say they can as well be TOTL contender. beside the Liebesleid, the MK2 and PK32 are my current most used earbuds


I just had to buy them both hehe

Even if I need to mod the mx500 shell to fit better it's worth it as I need to hear the mk2 treble 

Thanks @WillSound  for the quick deal. Excited to hear your creations.


----------



## Guggga

WillSound said:


> hallo...I'm here finally.
> first i need to say thank to you all for supporting WillSound.


Hello Willy Wonka


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> His solo stuff is great!  BTW the Telegraph Road in that song goes right through my Michigan town of Monroe.  Driven on it many times...south to Toledo... north to Detroit...



Huh - didn't even know it was a real road! Cool.

Btw, I just started watching this documentary about Shangri-La. Insteresting so far!


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> I just had to buy them both hehe
> 
> Even if I need to mod the mx500 shell to fit better it's worth it as I need to hear the mk2 treble
> 
> Thanks @WillSound  for the quick deal. Excited to hear your creations.



You saved on shipping getting more than one at a time.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> You saved on shipping getting more than one at a time.


Yes Willy let me combine postage, works out at $7.50 a bud that way, not too bad.


----------



## DBaldock9

Blazer39 said:


> are talking about these?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot...phone-Earbud-500-ohms-Earbud/32751502658.html
> 
> whats the sound signature?



Yes, that's the one.

They have very good Bass impact; clear, non-recessed Midrange (nearly as good as the Asura 2.0); and open, detailed Treble.

I see that the price has jumped at NiceHCK - I'm going to PM you, about the availability.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> I just had to buy them both hehe
> 
> Even if I need to mod the mx500 shell to fit better it's worth it as I need to hear the mk2 treble
> 
> Thanks @WillSound  for the quick deal. Excited to hear your creations.



I hope you'd like them! i know i love mine


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> not to mention other benefits like better marriage life and relationship with my son (*with iems, they tend to jumpscare me a lot*).



That's funny! It happens to me as well. I have been known to literally scream... and loudly!


----------



## WillSound

Guggga said:


> Hello Willy Wonka


Hello Guggga haha..


----------



## golov17 (May 28, 2018)

WillSound said:


> hallo...I'm here finally.
> first i need to say thank to you all for supporting WillSound.


Many thanks for mk1 bro, love them


----------



## j4100

Yeah, big fan of Willsound here as well and got mine via Rholupat. Great work Willy!

Some of you may remember my woes about an order placed in November which never appeared. Well I had a shipping notifiation saying it had arrived in country and decided to give it another month, etc. Eventually thought I was getting somewhere with Aliexpress for a refund, but they were no help at all and wouldn't refund me since the Royal Mail don't issue "certificates" to prove the loss. Jim at NiceHCK resent the whole package to me and it arrived less than two weeks later. After all that, I finally get to hear my EBX buds, 6 months later! Also got some back up SeaHF F150's and K's 64's. Just as well that I have the patience of a saint 

Phew!


----------



## WillSound

golov17 said:


> Many thanks for mk1 bro, love them


that very first willsound, thanks a lot.


----------



## waynes world

WillSound said:


> that very first willsound, thanks a lot.



Thanks a lot also for the MK2 rev2's - they sound fantastic. Nice work!


----------



## subwoof3r

WillSound said:


> hallo...I'm here finally.
> first i need to say thank to you all for supporting WillSound.


Literally logged ON just to "like" this post as soon as I saw it 
Welcome friend!

Can't wait to receive my PK32 in the next few days!
I will make a quick comparison between MK2 rev2 and MK1 rev2 (by memory.. since I don't own MK1 anymore) 
Cheers'


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> for me, yes. even with the Etys and my other iems, i still like earbuds very much. for me it's easier to enjoy going to earbuds from iems, and harder the other way around (i have to re-adjust my ears a bit longer). not to mention other benefits like better marriage life and relationship with my son (with iems, they tend to jumpscare me a lot). From the ER4XR you can get The Dragon 2+, Liebesleid, PK32, or BK for a balanced sound
> 
> you can order the PK32 from the builder https://www.facebook.com/willy.j.lukito or from http://www.rholupat.com ,but i see rholupat currently doesn't have it on stock



Which would you say was your favorite? Which sounds the most realistic and detailed?

Reading your posts you seem to put the Dragon 2+ and the PK32 around the same level, so is the Dragon worth it?

Thanks again for your response.


----------



## handwander

If anyone ends up getting a free Zen LL that was just posted on the VEclan facebook, sell it to me please 

Really want that black shell...


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> Which would you say was your favorite? Which sounds the most realistic and detailed?
> 
> Reading your posts you seem to put the Dragon 2+ and the PK32 around the same level, so is the Dragon worth it?
> 
> Thanks again for your response.



at this moment, the PK32 is my current most used. it might be a case of a honeymoon period, so give me a few months to settle down my verdict.

PK32 also sounded most neutral among the three favorites, while the Liebesleid gives an extra treble sparkle and mids engagement, and the MK2 gives a more exciting bass (stll the best for movies). these three are a toss up, so i just say all of them are my favorite.

using the ER4XR a reference, PK32 has similar treble, while the Liebesleid have similar mids.

about the dragon, I'm hesitant to give a forum opinion because i haven't done a head to head comparison. Different story when i compared the MK2 and the Samsara, that one i stand by my opinion. 

from memory only, the Dragon 2+ is great though, but for at the moment I think the PK32 is similar,sounding and a better purchase. 

but again, don't take my word for it


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> at this moment, the PK32 is my current most used. it might be a case of a honeymoon period, so give me a few months to settle down my verdict.
> 
> PK32 also sounded most neutral among the three favorites, while the Liebesleid gives an extra treble sparkle and mids engagement, and the MK2 gives a more exciting bass (stll the best for movies). these three are a toss up, so i just say all of them are my favorite.
> 
> ...


What's your main source for these chinmie? Cannot wait to try them on my V20 which should bring out the PK32s treble.

Earbuds are getting better and better in the 'affordable' range it seems. Maybe I won't need to spend big anymore if these two willsounds satisfy enough


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> What's your main source for these chinmie? Cannot wait to try them on my V20 which should bring out the PK32s treble.
> 
> Earbuds are getting better and better in the 'affordable' range it seems. Maybe I won't need to spend big anymore if these two willsounds satisfy enough



it's there on my signature 

yes, with those three, i think i covered all the base for my earbud needs. now i'm thinking of downsizing and get rid of the ones i rarely use...but that is a much harder feat than buying


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> it's there on my signature
> 
> yes, with those three, i think i covered all the base for my earbud needs. now i'm thinking of downsizing and get rid of the ones i rarely use...but that is a much harder feat than buying


Forgive me it's 1:30 and my brain is obviously asleep 

Yes I'm in the same boat as you, I bought too many earbuds now I'm figuring out which to keep and which to sell.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 28, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> What's your main source for these chinmie? Cannot wait to try them on my V20 which should bring out the PK32s treble.
> 
> Earbuds are getting better and better in the 'affordable' range it seems. Maybe I won't need to spend big anymore if these two willsounds satisfy enough


Smart idea. I did the opposite and bought ($100's) of crappy ear buds and iems I regret buying...

In terms of earbuds the EMX500 and TP16 are a must buy. If I knew that earlier I would have saved $100's of dollars. The TRN V20 is pretty good for an IEM but it's cheaply made.


----------



## jrazmar

@chinmie where did you get your PK32? cannot find it at rholupat.


----------



## ClieOS

j4100 said:


> Phew!



The longest wait I have with earphone order from China is about 8 months.

The pacakge took a month to travel, but it landed on the wrong continent (Africa instead of S.E.Asia), sat there in the wrong country's for over 3 months waiting, then they finally resent the package out - but only by the cheapest possible way, which is by sea, and that took a few more months to arrive.

Beat that!


----------



## chinmie

jrazmar said:


> @chinmie where did you get your PK32? cannot find it at rholupat.



try contacting the man himself @WillSound  I'm he can help you out


----------



## snip3r77

ClieOS said:


> The longest wait I have with earphone order from China is about 8 months.
> 
> The pacakge took a month to travel, but it landed on the wrong continent (Africa instead of S.E.Asia), sat there in the wrong country's for over 3 months waiting, then they finally resent the package out - but only by the cheapest possible way, which is by sea, and that took a few more months to arrive.
> 
> Beat that!


At least you can claim some miles for the round trip


----------



## haiku

Blazer39 said:


> looking for recommendation for earbud to enjoy with hiby r3( coming next week), according to reviews the R3 is a warm DAP, so looking for something on the brighter side...any suggestion would be helpful
> 
> i listen mostly to melodic/progressive metal(any type of metal really) and rock occasionally..looking for something with fast bass attack/response and good instrument separation, budget around 50$ can go to 100$ if really worth it..currently looking at :
> 1-BEY V.01( from http://www.rholupat.com)
> ...



I´d rec the Ndoro. It´s a killer. Metal and the Asura? Nah.


----------



## DBaldock9

haiku said:


> I´d rec the Ndoro. It´s a killer. Metal and the Asura? Nah.



The Ndoro Bey V1 is currently sold out, but they're apparently working on a new batch - https://www.facebook.com/NdoroBeyOfficial/


----------



## jrazmar (May 29, 2018)

chinmie said:


> try contacting the man himself @WillSound  I'm he can help you out



Thanks chinmie! Actually, after hearing the Liebesleid for weeks now with the foam mod I did, I think I will have to lay low for now here @ HF. I think I have found the sound that I'm looking for in an earbud form. This is not conclusive as I will continue to keep an eye on what's new from time to time. I enjoyed reading the posts in this thread especially by those people who are very helpful and objective on their opinion. The Willsounds are very tempting but I haven't heard any earbuds to-date as good as the Liebesleid. I know it's expensive for an earbud but for the sound that it produces and craftmanship alone, it's worth it. Thanks to ClieOS, sean and chinmie for your inputs and suggestions which helped me found this Moondrop gem.


----------



## Zerohour88 (May 29, 2018)

Got my Toneking TO180 a few days ago, intended as an upgrade to the NiceHCK (I think?) graphene (old) for my casual use on the PC.

First impressions so far, these are very sensitive despite being 150ohms, needing quite a lower volume level than the graphene (which made volume matching a bit tricky). Made me wonder if the TO400 can also run off the PC just fine.

mid-forward sound sig, very lively on that front, vocals take center stage (makes it perfect for my daily use for series watching and whatnot). Graphene sounds dry/tinny compared to these (which makes sense since they're more balanced in that regard). Also more resolving on the details, making the wide soundstage and imaging even better. No sibilance as far as I've tested. Bass performance is adequate enough, quick and snappy. I'd say its a more "fun" earbud than the graphene.

so, in all, not really a direct upgrade if you want something similar to the graphene, but definitely better performing.

Thinking about how the TO400 might be just as easy to drive as these is tempting me to break my 6-months upgrade rule though


----------



## snip3r77

WOW just WOW. my iRobot vacuum cleaner almost ate my Graphenes then I rescued it at the nick of time.
One of the shell cracked but it's in working condition.

I replaced my worned out sponge with White and Gray. The bass is damn good right now.
Is there any difference compared to other sponges?

My Graphene is the transparent white with transparent copper cable. I think it's the newer MX760 graphene. Is this the preferred Graphene? Thanks


----------



## Carrow (May 29, 2018)

My Vidos arrived yesterday - they only cost me like $7 but they perform like a bud 5 times that price. Soundstage, depth and separation are all really impressive. I like the fit as well - the buds themselves are generic looking but the sound is fantastic. Big fan of these.

My FAAEAL Z-Sound 32s arrived also and they're what I have out with me today


----------



## mbwilson111

snip3r77 said:


> WOW just WOW. my iRobot vacuum cleaner almost ate my Graphenes then I rescued it at the nick of time.
> One of the shell cracked but it's in working condition.



You need to train your Robot better!  ...or store your buds somewhere other than on the floor


----------



## hatranle

@jrazmar
Can you share your foam mod for Moondrop Liebesleid. Tks


----------



## hatranle

@jrazmar
Can you share your foam mod for Moondrop Liebesleid. Tks


----------



## ShabtabQ

I'm from India I want to buy willsounds too, I just need to wait for months to save some money. I'm going impatient reading good things about willsound everywhere, which should I get first I really liked the yuin shell one but it's not available in rholupat, damnnnnnnnn......


----------



## chinmie

jrazmar said:


> Thanks chinmie! Actually, after hearing the Liebesleid for weeks now with the foam mod I did, I think I will have to lay low for now here @ HF. I think I have found the sound that I'm looking for in an earbud form. This is not conclusive as I will continue to keep an eye on what's new from time to time. I enjoyed reading the posts in this thread especially by those people who are very helpful and objective on their opinion. The Willsounds are very tempting but I haven't heard any earbuds to-date as good as the Liebesleid. I know it's expensive for an earbud but for the sound that it produces and craftmanship alone, it's worth it. Thanks to ClieOS, sean and chinmie for your inputs and suggestions which helped me found this Moondrop gem.



for "that" type of sound, there's no other earbuds that are similar, that's why i also consider it as a keeper. you made a good decision to step back and enjoy what you have at the moment, and i know that is a hard thing to do


----------



## 40760

ShabtabQ said:


> I'm from India I want to buy willsounds too, I just need to wait for months to save some money. I'm going impatient reading good things about willsound everywhere, which should I get first I really liked the yuin shell one but it's not available in rholupat, damnnnnnnnn......



Why don't you PM Willy and get a direct quote from him?


----------



## WillSound

palestofwhite said:


> Why don't you PM Willy and get a direct quote from him?


PK32 sold out for now few hours ago, need wait some weeks to get ready again. now only MK2 MK3 and 300 Ohms ready in stock. thanks friend for ur suggestion. thanks..


----------



## 40760

WillSound said:


> PK32 sold out for now few hours ago, need wait some weeks to get ready again. now only MK2 MK3 and 300 Ohms ready in stock. thanks friend for ur suggestion. thanks..



No problem! I'm still waiting for the "Silver Black" MK1 that you shipped out to me last week... and also the PK32 and replacement MK3 from Adhi...


----------



## mochill

I want the mk1 rev.1


----------



## WillSound

mochill said:


> I want the mk1 rev.1


all WillSound Rev1 already discontinued.


----------



## mbwilson111

WillSound said:


> all WillSound Rev1 already discontinued.



Love my MK1 rev 2.  In addition to sounding great, they look beautiful.


----------



## seanc6441 (May 29, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Love my MK1 rev 2.  In addition to sounding great, they look beautiful.


Red is the best colour


----------



## seanc6441

Saw this when browsing the Earbuds Anonymous facebook group






Now if it sounds as good as it looks.... Amazing


----------



## waynes world

snip3r77 said:


> My Graphene is the transparent white with transparent copper cable. I think it's the newer MX760 graphene. Is this the preferred Graphene? Thanks



Yeah, I think that's the newer graphenes ($16). They are good, but imo the old graphenes ($29 - but can ask for a discount) are da bomb.



mbwilson111 said:


> You need to train your Robot better!  ...or store your buds somewhere other than on the floor



Lol!


----------



## Razorbud

rkw said:


> Simphonio Dragon 2+ for $240 on Massdrop ($320 at Penon Audio). Drop closes in 5 days.
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/simphonio-dragon-2-earbuds
> 
> Which leaves me in the usual quandary about premium earbuds that use generic shells. If I spend that much on an earbud, I'd like it to look and feel premium.



Is anyone thinking of getting this? It needs just one more to drop


----------



## seanc6441

Razorbud said:


> Is anyone thinking of getting this? It needs just one more to drop


Buy 2 and sell one to me so I can avoid all the ridiculous fee's and charges associated with Massdrop shipment outside the USA 

The price is pretty cool for US buyers though


----------



## kurtextrem

seanc6441 said:


> Buy 2 and sell one to me so I can avoid all the ridiculous fee's and charges associated with Massdrop shipment outside the USA
> 
> The price is pretty cool for US buyers though


Yup, I'm in as well, 100% promised. Just don't write the real value on the packet when you ship it.


----------



## rahmish

I love my Willsound Mk1 rev 1!Definitely one of my best buds, but thinking about rev 2 now..


----------



## Razorbud

seanc6441 said:


> Buy 2 and sell one to me so I can avoid all the ridiculous fee's and charges associated with Massdrop shipment outside the USA
> 
> The price is pretty cool for US buyers though



I agree. As much as I would like to try it, I'm just wondering if I can justify spending that amount on an earbud unfortunately. I'm not sure how easy it might be to sell too if I didn't enjoy it.


----------



## Razorbud

kurtextrem said:


> Yup, I'm in as well, 100% promised. Just don't write the real value on the packet when you ship it.



Hm.. in as in, you've joined the drop? Or do you wish for someone to buy it for you and send it to you too?


----------



## rahmish

seanc6441 said:


> Saw this when browsing the Earbuds Anonymous facebook group
> 
> 
> 
> Now if it sounds as good as it looks.... Amazing


They're custom Uairekko, I have 2 of his buds, both in pk2 shells


----------



## kurtextrem

Razorbud said:


> Hm.. in as in, you've joined the drop? Or do you wish for someone to buy it for you and send it to you too?


The latter one. Maybe we can get something started for me and @seanc6441 ?


----------



## seanc6441 (May 29, 2018)

Razorbud said:


> I agree. As much as I would like to try it, I'm just wondering if I can justify spending that amount on an earbud unfortunately. I'm not sure how easy it might be to sell too if I didn't enjoy it.


Not as hard as you think on headfi. The RRP is $320 and they are new and highly praised, you'll definitely find a buyer at the Massdrop price plus shipping if you listed them here I'm almost sure of it.

If massdrop had an EU warehouse I'd be on this drop too.

Saying that, it's hard to justify alright. But if the sound matches the price it's gonna be awesome. But it would have to be particularly special at this price.


----------



## gazzington

What's the sound signature to all the different willsound buds?


----------



## seanc6441

rahmish said:


> They're custom Uairekko, I have 2 of his buds, both in pk2 shells


Hows the sound? Anything to compare to?


----------



## mbwilson111

kurtextrem said:


> Yup, I'm in as well, 100% promised. Just don't write the real value on the packet when you ship it.



The problem is,  in the UK anything above £16 is taxable...


----------



## rahmish

seanc6441 said:


> Hows the sound? Anything to compare to?


They quite v-shaped, one is 32 Ohm and another one is 150 Ohm, I personally prefer 150 Ohm, they both good, but I like Willsound more!


----------



## rkw

Razorbud said:


> Is anyone thinking of getting this? It needs just one more to drop


I don't own a TOTL earbud yet and thought about it, but I just couldn't do it. Even with discount, it's a luxury price and I'm going to demand a premium look and feel. Is the paint finish as bad and cheap looking as in the Massdrop photo?

(click image for close-up)


----------



## capnjack

seanc6441 said:


> Saw this when browsing the Earbuds Anonymous facebook group
> 
> 
> 
> Now if it sounds as good as it looks.... Amazing


I ordered the very same one yesterday!


----------



## Razorbud

rkw said:


> I don't own a TOTL earbud yet and thought about it, but I just couldn't do it. Even with discount, it's a luxury price and I'm going to demand a premium look and feel. Is the paint finish as bad and cheap looking as in the Massdrop photo?
> 
> (click image for close-up)



This is the main issue that most people have with the swd2+ actually. Personally, I don’t mind it looking cheap. My main concern is that the plastic housing may crack but I haven’t had my pk1 shells cracked yet and those have taken quite a beating so I’m not that afraid. 

To answer your question, if they’re using the same shell as the regular pk1 earbuds, then yes, it’s the cheap
Looking black plastic shell, probably feels cheap too.


----------



## rkw

Razorbud said:


> To answer your question, if they’re using the same shell as the regular pk1 earbuds, then yes, it’s the cheap
> Looking black plastic shell, probably feels cheap too.


I know that they're using a generic, off-the-shelf shell, but at $320 MSRP couldn't they at least put a decent finish on it? It looks like someone took a rattle can to it. Compare to the Shozy BK (which I may end up getting) with the same shell. My impression from photos is that the BK has a matte finish that looks serious and professional.


----------



## golov17

D2+ shell has a varnish coating with a smoky color overflow. Looks not cheap..


----------



## seanc6441

Everyone will have an opinion on what looks cheap or not.

To me it looks about as good as any other custom PK shell. Whether that’s considered enough is up to the induvidual user.

I personally don’t mind how it looks but would preference a shell that lasts as long as possible at this price.

But sound quality is the most important aspect so if it sounds good and doesn’t break easier than earbuds like shozy bk then it will be accepted by most who valie SQ first.

Either way it is what it is, no need to spend on it if you don’t like it


----------



## chaiyuta

Last week, I went to try SWD2+ and VX pro.


Spoiler: VX Pro and SWD2+








VX Pro sound has nothing impressed me, though I have no fitting issue about its housing weight. Its build quality is nice, while its cable has a bit springy.


Spoiler: VXPro + DX200 Cu









SWD2+ housing looks nicer than pictures in website. Personally I likes SWD2+ so far more than Shozy BK. With the specific system, its tonality is quite neutral (a very bit bright). Better detailed, clarity and soundtage size. For those who need to stick to PK-shell earbuds, this is interesting buds. Though with its price tag, I will go to get Miracle earbuds, a local DIY mmcx earbuds, for better another leap step.


Spoiler: SWD2+ DX200 AMP4









For those who dislike how SWD2+ appearance, Simphonio announced that he will release the new special earbuds very soon in this July. Stay tuned.


----------



## audionab

can anyone recommend earbuds under 20$
new to this thread


----------



## chaiyuta

@audionab : How about VE Monk+, or VE Monk+ SPC?


----------



## RobinFood

chaiyuta said:


> Last week, I went to try SWD2+ and VX pro.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: VX Pro and SWD2+
> ...



What are Miracle earbuds. 
I did a search but only got ciems from UM...


----------



## Blazer39

anyone has any idea when B E Y V.01 is coming back?!
or if there another stock other than ones in rholupat.com?


----------



## chaiyuta

There is no the official website. Please Contact Mr. Golf (Ssp) who is the mastermind of Miracle buds.


----------



## handwander

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Lin...arphone-4-4mm-2-5mm-Balanced/32869327378.html


----------



## snip3r77

Some questions

1) are colored earbud foams are of different thickness? Is there specific ones that are thinner or thicker or BETTER?
2) donuts vs normal foams, how does it affect sound?


----------



## chaiyuta

1) The thicker the more bass quantity. It's all about matching and your preference. 

2) Donut sponges would retain high-frequency cause the middle of diaphragm is where high-frequency flows out, while bass quantity is still increased.


----------



## 40760

chaiyuta said:


> 1) The thicker the more bass quantity. It's all about matching and your preference.
> 
> 2) Donut sponges would retain high-frequency cause the middle of diaphragm is where high-frequency flows out, while bass quantity is still increased.



Care to share more about the characteristics of the Chot foams? I can't seem to find any reviews or information anywhere...


----------



## audionab

chaiyuta said:


> @audionab : How about VE Monk+, or VE Monk+ SPC?


 man 320 ohms i think it will be pretty hard to drive 
i did wanna try one with my phone and as well as laptop
but i think laptop will also have hard time driving them 
P.S. i don't know much about earbuds because i never had one ever and wanted to give them a try


----------



## 40760

audionab said:


> man 320 ohms i think it will be pretty hard to drive
> i did wanna try one with my phone and as well as laptop
> but i think laptop will also have hard time driving them
> P.S. i don't know much about earbuds because i never had one ever and wanted to give them a try



Monk Plus are only 64 Ohms?


----------



## chaiyuta

Monk+ is 64 Ohm, isn't it? Do you mean VE ZEN??

@palestofwhite I think chot foam is pretty suit well with VE Monk+. Nonetheless I prefer thin but tough sponges likes Audio Technica Sponges. YMMV.


----------



## audionab

oh yeah sorry i got mixed up with other link 
my bad


----------



## 40760

chaiyuta said:


> Monk+ is 64 Ohm, isn't it? Do you mean VE ZEN??
> 
> @palestofwhite I think chot foam is pretty suit well with VE Monk+. Nonetheless I prefer thin but tough sponges likes Audio Technica Sponges. YMMV.



Then I think Chot foams might not be suitable for my usage... I'll try and source for those Audio Techncia foams to try but I guess it's going to be hard...


----------



## snip3r77

chaiyuta said:


> 1) The thicker the more bass quantity. It's all about matching and your preference.
> 
> *2) Donut sponges would retain high-frequency cause the middle of diaphragm is where high-frequency flows out, while bass quantity is still increased*.



This might be a match made in heaven for Vidos?


----------



## chaiyuta

@palestofwhite : Chot foam is thicker, it is not easy to tear. I just prefer thin sponges. Recently I don't use Chot foam, so I forget how it sounds. Perhaps Sennheiser sponges is thicker than Chot foam. Some users have Chot foam immerses in water and let it dry before usage, and said that with this process it will sound better than instant use.


----------



## chaiyuta

Sorry I never tried Vidos. By the way, those donut sponges always be sent as default stock sponges of many earbuds. I don't think it is hard to find. Let's try by self.


----------



## 40760

chaiyuta said:


> @palestofwhite : Chot foam is thicker, it is not easy to tear. I just prefer thin sponges. Recently I don't use Chot foam, so I forget how it sounds. Perhaps Sennheiser sponges is thicker than Chot foam. Some users have Chot foam immerses in water and let it dry before usage, and said that with this process it will sound better than instant use.



I find thicker foams to be more comfortable for my ears, but they mess too much with the sound signature of whatever you put them onto (except the Monk Plus).

But after using the very thin and porous foams that came with my MK2, I really like that they don't alter the sound too much.

Ultimately, I still feel that the $1 pack of think AE foams to be quite a good balance between sound and fit. For donuts or high quality full foams, I still reach for Hiegi.


----------



## chaiyuta

I find this donut sponge from OURART looks interesting. From its pic it is quite thin sponge.


----------



## 40760 (May 30, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> I find this donut sponge from OURART looks interesting. From its pic it is quite thin sponge.



Yes these are the kind of porous foams that doesn't alter the sound as much as denser foams.

They look similar to the $1 AE foams but with better QC.


----------



## Lionheart24 (May 30, 2018)

I'm dying to get detailed reviews and comparos of the Wilsound MK3 and PK32. So if any of you folks can help out that would be sweet. I'm looking for something that will welcome my Hiby R3.

Will appreciate it more if you can make it a 3-way including the MK2 Rev 2.

I should say that I favor somewhat of a neutral sound. Any bass boost, particularly mid-bass (kick-drums?) thumps give me headaches. I listen mostly to hardcore, metal and hip hop. I wonder if I'm not the only one.


----------



## 40760

Do a little search and you can get most information about all 3 earbuds...


----------



## Magic_The

Hi, i was amazed of how Vido is sounding, for 5 bucks it is great, i do love bass so, i like headphoned with great bass, i heard that Yincrow x6 is the same as Vido, i want to purchase Yincrow rw-9, does it have better bass than Vido? also Edifier P180 is
also very good, can you guys reccomend me cheap earbuds (classic style) that have great bass?

Also, does thick foam sponge bettter than thin? (in terms of sound) i.e: bass..


----------



## capnjack

Lionheart24 said:


> I'm dying to get detailed reviews and comparos of the Wilsound MK3 and PK32. So if any of you folks can help out that would be sweet. I'm looking for something that will welcome my Hiby R3.
> 
> Will appreciate it more if you can make it a 3-way including the MK2 Rev 2.
> 
> I should say that I favor somewhat of a neutral sound. Any bass boost, particularly mid-bass (kick-drums?) thumps give me headaches. I listen mostly to hardcore, metal and hip hop. I wonder if I'm not the only one.


Sounds like you might be better off with the mk.1 Rev2


----------



## ClintonL

I've been out of the earbud game for ages now, what are the standouts at each pricepoint?


----------



## chinmie

Lionheart24 said:


> I'm dying to get detailed reviews and comparos of the Wilsound MK3 and PK32. So if any of you folks can help out that would be sweet. I'm looking for something that will welcome my Hiby R3.
> 
> Will appreciate it more if you can make it a 3-way including the MK2 Rev 2.
> 
> I should say that I favor somewhat of a neutral sound. Any bass boost, particularly mid-bass (kick-drums?) thumps give me headaches. I listen mostly to hardcore, metal and hip hop. I wonder if I'm not the only one.



Read here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2084#post-14255892



Magic_The said:


> Hi, i was amazed of how Vido is sounding, for 5 bucks it is great, i do love bass so, i like headphoned with great bass, i heard that Yincrow x6 is the same as Vido, i want to purchase Yincrow rw-9, does it have better bass than Vido? also Edifier P180 is
> also very good, can you guys reccomend me cheap earbuds (classic style) that have great bass?
> 
> Also, does thick foam sponge bettter than thin? (in terms of sound) i.e: bass..



try RY4S and EMX500 too. the thicker the foam, the bigger the bass, the less the treble


----------



## snip3r77

do we have a top earbuds for each pricepoint? ( updated )


----------



## Carrow

Anyone in the Earbuds Anonymous group on Bookface will know what I'm talking about but oh my god the Blur Ultimate Brokee has reached prototype stage and it looks amazing


----------



## HungryPanda

Carrow said:


> Anyone in the Earbuds Anonymous group on Bookface will know what I'm talking about but oh my god the Blur Ultimate Brokee has reached prototype stage and it looks amazing


It most certainly does


----------



## handwander

Price must be high if you have to PM for it


----------



## RobinFood

chaiyuta said:


> There is no the official website. Please Contact Mr. Golf (Ssp) who is the mastermind of Miracle buds.



What are they exactly? What shell do they use? Are they more expensive than the dragons?


----------



## seanc6441

audionab said:


> can anyone recommend earbuds under 20$
> new to this thread


Would be nice to know your preferred sound signature and music you listen to. Easier to make a suggestion then


----------



## seanc6441 (May 30, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> Some questions
> 
> 1) are colored earbud foams are of different thickness? Is there specific ones that are thinner or thicker or BETTER?
> 2) donuts vs normal foams, how does it affect sound?


Most of the foams have slight variances in thickness and density. But the colours don’t really determine it. I have a hugh bundle of random foams and many of them are unique so it makes it interesting trying to pick out foams for tuning my buds and to find the matching pairs... lol

@chaiyuta You’re right they do look thinner, almost like the cheapo aliexpress thin foams but probably slightly more dense and better quality. If these were on aliexpress I’d check them out for sure.


----------



## Carrow

handwander said:


> Price must be high if you have to PM for it



It'll retail for $SG200 but the preorder price is nice


----------



## seanc6441

Carrow said:


> It'll retail for $SG200 but the preorder price is nice


Any idea what the preorder is in USD or Euro?

I wil NOT be tempted, I will NOT be tempted xD


----------



## Carrow

seanc6441 said:


> Any idea what the preorder is in USD or Euro?
> 
> I wil NOT be tempted, I will NOT be tempted xD



About €115 I think, you're welcome!


----------



## Lionheart24

capnjack said:


> Sounds like you might be better off with the mk.1 Rev2



I believe those have a boomy bass, no?


----------



## chaiyuta (May 30, 2018)

Miracle buds is the Thai DIY mmcx detachable (リケーブル出来る) 39Ohm earbuds. Its driver is not an instant driver that is easy to get via Aliexpress or Taobao and simply combine them (driver+housing+cable+plug) all. It is a self hand-made driver. Its diaphargm is from Sennheiser MX985 (just only diaphargm part) and it gets special cystal coating a one more layer, And he sources other driver parts (voice coil, basement, magnet, etc) and spend R&D time roughly 2-3 years before releasing Miracle earbuds. Its strong point is pretty large soundstage with excellent layering. Though its shell is a simple MX500 housing and it looks cheap. SWD2+ appearance is just a bit better than website's pictures in my opinion.

Another Thai DIY hand-made driver earbuds is Boutiquebuds. He already released M1, M2 and M3 and all model already sold out.

P.S. If my English make you confused, you could PM to me and I can describe more in Japanese in some sentences.

Updated : Miracle price tag is a bit more or less than 300$.


----------



## audionab

seanc6441 said:


> Would be nice to know your preferred sound signature and music you listen to. Easier to make a suggestion then


i prefer U shape sound signature with treble on the downside as i am treble sensitive also i don't like mid bass leaking into mids 
also i would really like a huge wide soundstage with nice imaging
i will primarily use them for gaming but also some music
TL;DR : fun balanced sound signature with big soundstage and good imaging


----------



## snip3r77

seanc6441 said:


> Most of the foams have slight variances in thickness and density. But the colours don’t really determine it. I have a hugh bundle of random foams and many of them are unique so it makes it interesting trying to pick out foams for tuning my buds and to find the matching pairs... lol
> 
> @chaiyuta You’re right they do look thinner, almost like the cheapo aliexpress thin foams but probably slightly more dense and better quality. If these were on aliexpress I’d check them out for sure.



it needs to be repeatable because wear and tear of the earbud is high. damn... in this case how to buy these foams LOL. can't be buying everyone to try.


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 30, 2018)

Lionheart24 said:


> I believe those have a boomy bass, no?



Not to me.  Boomy bass gives me a headache ...the MK1 rev2 does not.  I think it is out of stock at the moment...I think the maker is waiting for parts.


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> Not to me.  Boomy bass gives me a headache ...the MK1 rev2 does not.  I think it is out if stock at the moment...I think the maker is waiting for parts.



I managed to score a black shell with silver cable MK1 Rev2 from Willy just last week. But if they're waiting for red then it's going to take a while...


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> I managed to score a black shell with silver cable MK1 Rev2 from Willy just last week. But if they're waiting for red then it's going to take a while...



I love the red but some people might be happier with black and silver.


----------



## seanc6441

audionab said:


> i prefer U shape sound signature with treble on the downside as i am treble sensitive also i don't like mid bass leaking into mids
> also i would really like a huge wide soundstage with nice imaging
> i will primarily use them for gaming but also some music
> TL;DR : fun balanced sound signature with big soundstage and good imaging





audionab said:


> i prefer U shape sound signature with treble on the downside as i am treble sensitive also i don't like mid bass leaking into mids
> also i would really like a huge wide soundstage with nice imaging
> i will primarily use them for gaming but also some music
> TL;DR : fun balanced sound signature with big soundstage and good imaging


Seems like you want elevated bass but neutral mids and treble.

I'm thinking maybe EMX500 actually.

If your budget was  higher it sounds like the Svara L is what you are after. Seems perfect for your description but you'd need to ask someone like @HungryPanda  who owns them.

I owned EMX500 it has a big soundstage, full deep bass, neutral upper frequency that never get too intense especially using donut or full foam.


----------



## capnjack

Lionheart24 said:


> I believe those have a boomy bass, no?


I don’t find the Mk.1 to have boomy bass at all, in fact I find the Mk.2 has a slight mid-bass hump. The Mk.1 has a touch more sub-bass to my ears and ever so slightly rolled off treble.


----------



## chinmie

chaiyuta said:


> Miracle buds is the Thai DIY mmcx detachable (リケーブル出来る) 39Ohm earbuds. Its driver is not an instant driver that is easy to get via Aliexpress or Taobao and simply combine them (driver+housing+cable+plug) all. It is a self hand-made driver. Its diaphargm is from Sennheiser MX985 (just only diaphargm part) and it gets special cystal coating a one more layer, And he sources other driver parts (voice coil, basement, magnet, etc) and spend R&D time roughly 2-3 years before releasing Miracle earbuds. Its strong point is pretty large soundstage with excellent layering. Though its shell is a simple MX500 housing and it looks cheap. SWD2+ appearance is just a bit better than website's pictures in my opinion.
> 
> Another Thai DIY hand-made driver earbuds is Boutiquebuds. He already released M1, M2 and M3 and all model already sold out.
> 
> ...


how does the miracle bus buds compared to the SWD2+?


----------



## chinmie

snip3r77 said:


> it needs to be repeatable because wear and tear of the earbud is high. damn... in this case how to buy these foams LOL. can't be buying everyone to try.



for consistency sake  i use specific brand or buy from the same store rather than random foam buying. currently i use hiegi for thicks and the black 1 dollar/pack aliexpress for thins


----------



## Lionheart24

Thanks for all the replies guys. I just wanna add, I've had the emx500 but sold them due to how big the bass presentation was.



chinmie said:


> you're right it is *mk1 > mk2 > mk3* on bass amount
> mind you the MK3 test unit is using thin foams, and also I'm always use my vido with thin foams.I'd say vido have a more boom on lower midbass, but on the subbass they're about the same class. they're not wholly and engulfing bass like the Svara though, which is a different beast altogether



First off, thanks for all the replies guys. As seen on the quote, I believe my verbiage was wrong. Bass amount, not boomy, was what was in my head.

If this is true, then the MK3 might be best for me. In terms of clarity, details, and imaging, which of the 3 do you think has the most?


----------



## chaiyuta (May 30, 2018)

Miracle is more large soundstage and more number of depth layering, better detail retrieval. Detachable cable is a plus to alter and upgrade SQ too. To me, it is another leap level. While SWD2+ I have a feeling of vocal forward mid centric presentation with overall above average. YMMV.


----------



## golov17

capnjack said:


> I don’t find the Mk.1 to have boomy bass at all, in fact I find the Mk.2 has a slight mid-bass hump. The Mk.1 has a touch more sub-bass to my ears and ever so slightly rolled off treble.


+


----------



## chinmie

Lionheart24 said:


> Thanks for all the replies guys. I just wanna add, I've had the emx500 but sold them due to how big the bass presentation was.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



for detail it is better to get the MK2. MK3 is more relaxed and excel for long listening. if you want a detailed version that have the MK3 tonality, get the PK32


----------



## snip3r77

chinmie said:


> for detail it is better to get the MK2. MK3 is more relaxed and excel for long listening. if you want a detailed version that have the MK3 tonality, get the PK32



From Wilson's stable, which one is actually the BEST?


----------



## audionab

hey fellow headfiers i found some old pair of earbuds which came with transcend mp3 and these buds are wide as hell(17mm) in size and their is no foam on it 
i was trying to get a good fit with these but they were too wide for ears 
the fit i was able to get was loose and these buds kept falling off 
tried a tighter fit and these caused physical pain to my ears
the loose fit resulted in major loss of bass 
ordered a pack of 4 foams for less than 1$ 
lets see if these full foams help


----------



## HungryPanda

I favour the MK2 rev2 my partner in crime prefers the MK1. Such is the way of human preference


----------



## chinmie

snip3r77 said:


> From Wilson's stable, which one is actually the BEST?



the MKs have the same SQ with different tuning. so different best for different people. for me personally, i like the PK32 and MK2


----------



## waynes world

capnjack said:


> I don’t find the Mk.1 to have boomy bass at all, in fact I find the Mk.2 has a slight mid-bass hump. The Mk.1 has a touch more sub-bass to my ears and ever so slightly rolled off treble.



You speak the truth about the MK2's slight mid-bass hump. It was more apparent right out of the box, but after some burn in, MK2's mid-bass and highs have really settled down into something I love. Very musical, full, fun sounding buds.

Having said that, your description of the MK1's are very intriguing. I'm pretty sure that I'd love them both. Darn this head-fi place!



chinmie said:


> for detail it is better to get the MK2. MK3 is more relaxed and excel for long listening. if you want a detailed version that have the MK3 tonality, get the PK32



And of course the PK3 sounds very interesting as well. Did I already say "Darn this head-fi place!"?



HungryPanda said:


> I favour the MK2 rev2 my partner in crime prefers the MK1. Such is the way of human preference



I wished I lived in the UK so that I could come over uninvited all of the time to listen to both of your gear (but, you'd probably have me arrested lol)


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## Guggga (May 30, 2018)

Listening to the mk3 off the lg v20. Steaming Plastic Picnic on Tidal. Like Chinmie says, the tuning of the Mks (revision 2) is similar and it's about individual preferences. The mk1 has more subbass and slightly pulled back mids and an intimate soundstage (not congested or small in anyway ). The mk2 punches more cus of its elevated mids which makes it warmer and the highs extend higher - its a crisp and airy sound.

The mk3 is a surprise, it has excellent imaging and separation like the mk2 with a faster bass response as the midbass is more controlled. By controlled I don't mean that they don't have bass impact or lack bass, they just have the right warmth and sound balanced. The guitars are crunchy and nice, they seem to be able to play far out of my head with the synth effects panning effortlessly around my head. Like the mk2, I'm able to follow all the sounds. The trebel is very slightly pulled back than the mk2, but not in a way that it's dark.
To my ears all the willsounds have a very good timbre and tonality, they sound natural.
Also, the mk3 look sinister in all black. I believe with the Mk series, you can't go wrong with either the mk2 or mk3 if you're looking for an all rounder.

Coming to the pk32  its like a baby mk 2/3. The mids are full and upfront , intimate. But the bloody bass from the size of those shells is atrocious. It's nice bass, warm n defined. Very good balance. As much fun as it's bigger brothers. Would love to see a comparison with the shozs bk when Sean gets his. 

If you like musicality and a natural but fun response, it's hard to go wrong with any of the willsound buds.


----------



## waynes world

Guggga said:


> Listening to the mk3 off the lg v20. Steaming Plastic Picnic on Tidal. Like Chinmie says, the tuning of the Mks (revision 2) is similar and it's about individual preferences. The mk1 has more subbass and slightly pulled back mids and an intimate soundstage (not congested or small in anyway ). The mk2 punches more cus of its elevated mids which makes it warmer and the highs extend higher - its a crisp and airy sound.
> 
> The mk3 is a surprise, it has excellent imaging and separation like the mk2 with a faster bass response as the midbass is more controlled. By controlled I don't mean that they don't have bass impact or lack bass, they just have the right warmth and sound balanced. The guitars are crunchy and nice, they seem to be able to play far out of my head with the synth effects panning effortlessly around my head. Like the mk2, I'm able to follow all the sounds. The trebel is very slightly pulled back than the mk2, but not in a way that it's dark.
> To my ears all the willsounds have a very good timbre and tonality, they sound natural.
> ...



Great impressions. I might as well add the MK3 to my list. Did I say "Darn...


----------



## Guggga

Now listening to Isao Suzuki, Akos Dream. Sheer aural bliss. Superb tonality, imaging and separation. I love the mk3s


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Great impressions. I might as well add the MK3 to my list. Did I say "Darn...



You need to buy ALL the earbuds!


----------



## mbwilson111

Not sure how many of you have ordered the FAAEAL Rosemary 150ohms.  Mine came today and I have been listening to a couple of albums tonight and really enjoying them. Sounded equally imperssive with Leorard Cohen Old Ideas and Massive Attack Mezzanine. Could be a good all-rounder.

I am not ready to compare them to specific other buds.  I just wanted to say they are worth considering.

Listening straight out of my Cayin N3 DAP.  

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...00-earbud-Heavy-bass-earbuds/32858195175.html


----------



## handwander

I kind of want the snow lotus 2.0 60ohm ones because of the plug lol.


----------



## HungryPanda

The Snow Lotus is the only earbud I need to use a shirt clip with because the splitter is so heavy


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> The Snow Lotus is the only earbud I need to use a shirt clip with because the splitter is so heavy



True. The cable itself is rather beefy as well. Rather robust!


----------



## mbwilson111

handwander said:


> I kind of want the snow lotus 2.0 60ohm ones because of the plug lol.





HungryPanda said:


> The Snow Lotus is the only earbud I need to use a shirt clip with because the splitter is so heavy



Yeah that is a massive heavy cable on the Snow Lotus.  For that reason, I am finding the Rosemary more comfortable to use.


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> You speak the truth about the MK2's slight mid-bass hump. It was more apparent right out of the box, but after some burn in, MK2's mid-bass and highs have really settled down into something I love. Very musical, full, fun sounding buds.
> 
> Having said that, your description of the MK1's are very intriguing. I'm pretty sure that I'd love them both. Darn this head-fi place!
> 
> ...





Guggga said:


> Listening to the mk3 off the lg v20. Steaming Plastic Picnic on Tidal. Like Chinmie says, the tuning of the Mks (revision 2) is similar and it's about individual preferences. The mk1 has more subbass and slightly pulled back mids and an intimate soundstage (not congested or small in anyway ). The mk2 punches more cus of its elevated mids which makes it warmer and the highs extend higher - its a crisp and airy sound.
> 
> The mk3 is a surprise, it has excellent imaging and separation like the mk2 with a faster bass response as the midbass is more controlled. By controlled I don't mean that they don't have bass impact or lack bass, they just have the right warmth and sound balanced. The guitars are crunchy and nice, they seem to be able to play far out of my head with the synth effects panning effortlessly around my head. Like the mk2, I'm able to follow all the sounds. The trebel is very slightly pulled back than the mk2, but not in a way that it's dark.
> To my ears all the willsounds have a very good timbre and tonality, they sound natural.
> ...



yes, as what i experienced, Willsound buds will sound (you see what i did there?) a bit up front and busy in the mids and midbass ootb, but after a while, it will sound (ha! did it again ) a lot more relaxed and the soundstage opens up) 

The MK1 and MK2 will give people the Wow effects when they listen to them, but the MK3 is a different beast..it just sound right, can't seem to find faults to it, and can't seem to take them of. I'm contemplating whether i have to purchase this or not because I'm trying to size down..and the worse thing is that test buds that Willy sent me are still at my house because he said take my time burning and listening to them....the temptation is real 

true to what you said about the PK32, yuin shell shouldn't have no business having bass that big. i have heard another DIY yuin shell with big bass before, but that one is V shaped, while the PK32 still managed to sound balanced but with good hefty boom at the sub bass


----------



## snip3r77

chinmie said:


> yes, as what i experienced, Willsound buds will sound (you see what i did there?) a bit up front and busy in the mids and midbass ootb, but after a while, it will sound (ha! did it again ) a lot more relaxed and the soundstage opens up)
> 
> The MK1 and MK2 will give people the Wow effects when they listen to them, but the MK3 is a different beast..it just sound right, can't seem to find faults to it, and can't seem to take them of. I'm contemplating whether i have to purchase this or not because I'm trying to size down..and the worse thing is that test buds that Willy sent me are still at my house because he said take my time burning and listening to them....the temptation is real
> 
> true to what you said about the PK32, yuin shell shouldn't have no business having bass that big. i have heard another DIY yuin shell with big bass before, but that one is V shaped, while the PK32 still managed to sound balanced but with good hefty boom at the sub bass



Maybe keep 2 out of 3 Mk1/2/3 ?


----------



## ld100

**** PT15 - I read on Facebook that there is a newer version that has its sound adjusted and sounds great. I got mine when it was just released and it is bright to the point that I can't stand it... Can someone confirmed that the sound had been changed? It is no longer bright? Worth getting?


----------



## toear

ld100 said:


> **** PT15 - I read on Facebook that there is a newer version that has its sound adjusted and sounds great. I got mine when it was just released and it is bright to the point that I can't stand it... Can someone confirmed that the sound had been changed? It is no longer bright? Worth getting?


I have a/the newer version worth the single port. It is very hot in the mid and high frequencies. It does extend low but definitely not what I would describe as neutral. Some types of music sound great (acoustic for example)  but others are painful to listen to... (edm for example). I have a love hate relationship with it... Perhaps it needs to but in longer ?  They definitely have airy and holographic qualities to them, which is amazing ... Especially for the price. Many people here seem to love them... . I want to love them....


----------



## NaiveSound

What are the top 3 best buds (cost no object)


----------



## wskl

ld100 said:


> **** PT15 - I read on Facebook that there is a newer version that has its sound adjusted and sounds great. I got mine when it was just released and it is bright to the point that I can't stand it... Can someone confirmed that the sound had been changed? It is no longer bright? Worth getting?



Quoting from a couple of our earbud experts should answer your questions.


ClieOS said:


> Got myself a second pair of PT15 after repeated reading about how the new one is different from the old one - here are my PT15: the black on is the original first batch (*directly from ****'s official Taobao store during initial launched) and the blue one was ordered just last week from the same store again. As far as I can tell, both sound pretty much identical under the same cable with the same type of foam pad. I also PM'ed to ****'s customer service and they confirmed that the tuning has never been changed.





golov17 said:


> simply, when assembling, a lot of glue was used, which covered the black damper and half the holes in the driver's casing, so the sound can differ from batch to batch.


----------



## Guggga

toear said:


> I have a/the newer version worth the single port. It is very hot in the mid and high frequencies. It does extend low but definitely not what I would describe as neutral. Some types of music sound great (acoustic for example)  but others are painful to listen to... (edm for example). I have a love hate relationship with it... Perhaps it needs to but in longer ?  They definitely have airy and holographic qualities to them, which is amazing ... Especially for the price. Many people here seem to love them... . I want to love them....



A lot of listeners seem to equate extended trebel with clarity and detail, just how we all hear differently. Personally I prefer a neutral / balanced to warm sound. Was considering the senfers but after reading your post, I'll stay far away from them. Thanks.


----------



## Guggga

chinmie said:


> yes, as what i experienced, Willsound buds will sound (you see what i did there?) a bit up front and busy in the mids and midbass ootb, but after a while, it will sound (ha! did it again ) a lot more relaxed and the soundstage opens up)
> The MK1 and MK2 will give people the Wow effects when they listen to them, but the MK3 is a different beast..it just sound right, can't seem to find faults to it, and can't seem to take them of. I'm contemplating whether i have to purchase this or not because I'm trying to size down..and the worse thing is that test buds that Willy sent me are still at my house because he said take my time burning and listening to them....the temptation is real
> 
> true to what you said about the PK32, yuin shell shouldn't have no business having bass that big. i have heard another DIY yuin shell with big bass before, but that one is V shaped, while the PK32 still managed to sound balanced but with good hefty boom at the sub bass



Harry,  you need them all


----------



## chinmie

snip3r77 said:


> Maybe keep 2 out of 3 Mk1/2/3 ?


 luckily he didn't sent the MK1 rev2 also, or i might have to buy all MK


----------



## chinmie

Guggga said:


> Harry,  you need them all



stop saying that! (opens wallet slowly...)


----------



## snip3r77

chinmie said:


> luckily he didn't sent the MK1 rev2 also, or i might have to buy all MK


I'm collecting my mk3 these few days.


----------



## snip3r77 (May 31, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> I'm collecting my mk3 these few days.



Who is in the house?


----------



## luckyeights

So what are the current totl earbuds? I havnr been on here in about 6 months.  Last totl I remember was the Penon BS1 which i love and still use regularly.  Anything new that beats it out?


----------



## 40760

snip3r77 said:


> Who is in the house?



Burn it in for a day...


----------



## Guggga

snip3r77 said:


> Who is in the house?



Good to see them with you finally, hope you enjoy them! They're pretty good out of the box itself, still enjoying mine immensely. 

I've named mine "Lucifer"!


----------



## Guggga

chinmie said:


> stop saying that! (opens wallet slowly...)



Between two expensive hobbies that I enjoy - 1:18 Scale model cars and earbuds, it wasn't an easy decision to get all the Willsounds, but then I figured the cost of admission is way lower than one of my models or a similar TOTL touted earbuds. I found the pricing to be pretty honest and reasonable. This is my justification alone for this binge buying and the amount of fun I'm having now is more than worth it 

Typing this while listening to David Maxim - Who bit the moon off Tidal + Uapp LG V20, paired with the Mk3


----------



## RuFrost

1) https://www.massdrop.com/buy/simphonio-dragon-2-earbuds#description

2) I live in Russia (massdrop do not ship to Russia) and the drop is almost ended. What I'm offering is: I will buy them, can somebody helps me we receiving them in USA and ship it to me?
The helper is allowed to audition\test the earbuds for a while. 

3) Are there any services which can help me with my issue?


----------



## subwoof3r

Just received my Willsound PK32 !
What a craftman work! always amazed how Willy do this. Cable reminds me a loot MK1 rev2, at the difference it's white and not red.
Just gave a quick listen to them before returning to work : it's definitely a bass anemic earbud, was a bit chocked. But mids and highs looks pretty interesting. I confirm it's more an analytical earbud. Plenty of details compared to the MK series.
Let's burn them for few days, hopefully bass will get more there after.


----------



## handwander

Anyone have a comparison between Willsound models and Qlab ones?


----------



## kurtextrem

RuFrost said:


> 1) https://www.massdrop.com/buy/simphonio-dragon-2-earbuds#description
> 
> 2) I live in Russia (massdrop do not ship to Russia) and the drop is almost ended. What I'm offering is: I will buy them, can somebody helps me we receiving them in USA and ship it to me?
> The helper is allowed to audition\test the earbuds for a while.
> ...


would love this too. Not Russia, but Germany for me.


----------



## Guggga

subwoof3r said:


> Just received my Willsound PK32 !
> What a craftman work! always amazed how Willy do this. Cable reminds me a loot MK1 rev2, at the difference it's white and not red.
> Just gave a quick listen to them before returning to work : it's definitely a bass anemic earbud, was a bit chocked. But mids and highs looks pretty interesting. I confirm it's more an analytical earbud. Plenty of details compared to the MK series.
> Let's burn them for few days, hopefully bass will get more there after.


The bass will open up with use. Also since this is a yuin type shell it wont hit as low as the mk series. That said its still a pretty bassy bud


----------



## snip3r77

Guggga said:


> Good to see them with you finally, hope you enjoy them! They're pretty good out of the box itself, still enjoying mine immensely.
> 
> I've named mine "Lucifer"!


Does it benefit from some burn in? Maybe I'd just loop it for 24 hours


----------



## seanc6441

Theoretically if one was to order the D2+ on Massdrop right now how long after the drop ends will the item be shipped? Is it a ridiculously long wait like when people bought the HD6XXs etc? Or is it immediately after it ends.

Anyone have any idea?


----------



## bonson

seanc6441 said:


> Theoretically if one was to order the D2+ on Massdrop right now how long after the drop ends will the item be shipped? Is it a ridiculously long wait like when people bought the HD6XXs etc? Or is it immediately after it ends.
> 
> Anyone have any idea?


In description it s mentioned 
Estimated ship date is July 3, 2018 PT.


----------



## 40760 (May 31, 2018)

It should ship pretty quick because demand is not high for this drop...

Plus stock should be ample to fulfil...


----------



## handwander

The 'discussion' posts on that massdrop page are hilarious



> Please people. I just bought a pair of Campfire Comets for $200. Beautifully made, high quality single BA driver iem. Don’t encourage this rip-offery by buying this product made with a few dollars worth of Ali-express junk parts. They may “sound” amazing, but by buying something like this, we as an audio community condone and encourage overly high pricing for sub-standard quality products. I won’t do it.



Not totally wrong


----------



## bonson

@snip3r77 received my Willsound today. I was wondering if Rholupat sent to me mk3 instead of Mk2 because shell is black. Your picture made me realized the jack are different
I hope this is really Mk2 through


----------



## 40760

bonson said:


> @snip3r77 received my Willsound today. I was wondering if Rholupat sent to me mk3 instead of Mk2 because shell is black. Your picture made me realized the jack are different
> I hope this is really Mk2 through



I suppose he went out of parts and made them in black shells instead. The 3.5mm plug is still silver, so it's a sign that it should be a MK2. The MK3 comes with a black plug.


----------



## snip3r77

bonson said:


> @snip3r77 received my Willsound today. I was wondering if Rholupat sent to me mk3 instead of Mk2 because shell is black. Your picture made me realized the jack are different
> I hope this is really Mk2 through


Mine is labelled mk3. If I remember correctly, black is mk3. No worries buy another mk2


----------



## chinmie

bonson said:


> @snip3r77 received my Willsound today. I was wondering if Rholupat sent to me mk3 instead of Mk2 because shell is black. Your picture made me realized the jack are different
> I hope this is really Mk2 through



unless he sent you the MK2 rev1 like mine (which is black).. better make sure and contact Adhi Rholupat for confirmation


----------



## HungryPanda

There is no harm in asking


----------



## WillSound

chinmie said:


> unless he sent you the MK2 rev1 like mine (which is black).. better make sure and contact Adhi Rholupat for confirmation


i make sure that is MK2 Rev2, i make MK2 Rev2 in black and white shell. randomly.


----------



## Carrow

So I just bought the Ultimate Brokee prototype.


----------



## bonson

palestofwhite said:


> I suppose he went out of parts and made them in black shells instead. The 3.5mm plug is still silver, so it's a sign that it should be a MK2. The MK3 comes with a black plug.


Thanks  I find them a bit bassy for the moment but I like the sub bass ablity so it should be Mk2 from description  Mk3 is described as being more mid focused.


----------



## bonson

WillSound said:


> i make sure that is MK2 Rev2, i make MK2 Rev2 in black and white shell. randomly.


Thank for your confirmation


----------



## seanc6441

Carrow said:


> So I just bought the Ultimate Brokee prototype.


Nice they seem interesting wanna hear impressions when you get em, did you get any willsounds to compare to?


----------



## Carrow

seanc6441 said:


> Nice they seem interesting wanna hear impressions when you get em, did you get any willsounds to compare to?



I have the MK1 Rev 2 to compare them to, will be doing a full run-down once I receive them. Wong's informed me they've already been burned in a bit


----------



## cathee

handwander said:


> The 'discussion' posts on that massdrop page are hilarious
> 
> "Please people. I just bought a pair of Campfire Comets for $200. Beautifully made, high quality single BA driver iem. Don’t encourage this rip-offery by buying this product made with a few dollars worth of Ali-express junk parts. They may “sound” amazing, but by buying something like this, we as an audio community condone and encourage overly high pricing for sub-standard quality products. I won’t do it."
> 
> Not totally wrong



+1 

Funny, I was about to write a quick impressions/review of the ZoomFred and Darth Blue I got from Cypherus Audio. And the first point I wanted to make (which is not only limited to Cypherus but all my TOTL earbuds) is that the crappy packaging/accessory bundle is quickly becoming unacceptable. If $15 EMX500 and $250+ ZoomFred come with the same accessories and that toss-away "travel case", very soon I'll be quoting Big Sean.


----------



## snip3r77

cathee said:


> +1
> 
> Funny, I was about to write a quick impressions/review of the ZoomFred and Darth Blue I got from Cypherus Audio. And the first point I wanted to make (which is not only limited to Cypherus but all my TOTL earbuds) is that the ****ty packaging/accessory bundle is quickly becoming unacceptable. If $15 EMX500 and $250+ ZoomFred come with the same accessories and that toss-away "travel case", very soon I'll be quoting Big Sean.



who is big sean?


----------



## snip3r77 (May 31, 2018)

chinmie said:


> luckily he didn't sent the MK1 rev2 also, or i might have to buy all MK



Those that has the WillSound MKx, how far these babies are from ToTL?

I'm listening now without burning and it's NOT even funny. Just WOW. Mids are popping and very life like. I think @WillSound planted some weed with the dynamic drivers. Next stop would be detachable cables. Hear us?


----------



## Guggga

snip3r77 said:


> Does it benefit from some burn in? Maybe I'd just loop it for 24 hours



I just listen to mine and let them open up along  the way.


----------



## chinmie

cathee said:


> +1
> 
> Funny, I was about to write a quick impressions/review of the ZoomFred and Darth Blue I got from Cypherus Audio. And the first point I wanted to make (which is not only limited to Cypherus but all my TOTL earbuds) is that the ****ty packaging/accessory bundle is quickly becoming unacceptable. If $15 EMX500 and $250+ ZoomFred come with the same accessories and that toss-away "travel case", very soon I'll be quoting Big Sean.



accessories aside, how does the EMX500 and the Zoomfred do in difference of sound quality?


----------



## cathee

snip3r77 said:


> who is big sean?


----------



## chinmie

snip3r77 said:


> Those that has the WillSound MKx, how far these babies are from ToTL?
> 
> I'm listening now without burning and it's NOT even funny. Just WOW. Mids are popping and very life like. I think @WillSound planted some weed with the dynamic drivers. Next stop would be detachable cables. Here us?



like i always said (and i do still stand by my opinion), i like the MK1 and 2 better than the K's TOTL (and even the Poseidon), and i like the PK32 better than any other Yuin shell buds. give it some more burn time, you will be more pleased by it)


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> accessories aside, how does the EMX500 and the Zoomfred do in difference of sound quality?


Lol


----------



## cathee

chinmie said:


> accessories aside, how does the EMX500 and the Zoomfred do in difference of sound quality?



I'm still waiting to give it the full 200 hr burn in Herry recommended before I make any definitive statements about the sound. But OOTB I've noticed bigger stage/better separation (even for song with a tight arrangement), a little less bass but definitely tighter/more controlled, also the mids don't feel as recessed but definitely still slightly v- or u-shaped.


----------



## subwoof3r

Ok, I'm listening my PK32 since 1 hour after it's first 7 hours of burning : I'm still very deceived by it. There is absolutely NO bass at all. I decided to put Heigi full thick foams to remedy on that and put +2db on infra-bass on Foobar2000 and still NO bass. I'm wondering if my pair is defect or if it's normal? it is probably the most bass-left earbud that I did tried for many years.
At least, I recognize the gorgeous natural sound from Willsound, but upper-mids are much forwarded and highs are ok but still not yet impressive to my ears. It lacks clarity and definition. PK32 clearly sounds like V-shaped reversed. Soundstage is also also not very large.
Problem is that it's not a problem of Yuin shells, as I owned Yuin PK1 in the past and it was one of my better bass quality earbuds ever.
I found listening to PK32 is a tiring experience, giving me a beginning of headache.
It is more designed for vocals only. It is not an exciting earbud.
Other than that, the build quality is excellent and beautiful (really good looking with full white Heigi foams).

Definitely PK32 is not the sound I'm looking for.
I will let them burn for few days but if the sound does not change I will put them for sale, if anyone is interested.


----------



## the diode

That is not something I wanted to hear... Lol. I just ordered the PK32. Sounds like it could have been a mistake. I hope I like the sound. Not a bass head but it needs to be there.


----------



## waynes world

subwoof3r said:


> Ok, I'm listening my PK32 since 1 hour after it's first 7 hours of burning : I'm still very deceived by it. There is absolutely NO bass at all. I decided to put Heigi full thick foams to remedy on that and put +2db on infra-bass on Foobar2000 and still NO bass. I'm wondering if my pair is defect or if it's normal? it is probably the most bass-left earbud that I did tried for many years.
> At least, I recognize the gorgeous natural sound from Willsound, but upper-mids are much forwarded and highs are ok but still not yet impressive to my ears. It lacks clarity and definition. PK32 clearly sounds like V-shaped reversed. Soundstage is also also not very large.
> Problem is that it's not a problem of Yuin shells, as I owned Yuin PK1 in the past and it was one of my better bass quality earbuds ever.
> I found listening to PK32 is a tiring experience, giving me a beginning of headache.
> ...



Considering how much @chinmie likes his pk32's, and based on how much bass @Guggga says the pk32's have, something certainly seems amiss with your pair.


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> Considering how much @chinmie likes his pk32's, and based on how much bass @Guggga says the pk32's have, something certainly seems amiss with your pair.


I’ll try my best to chime in to when I get mine, was shipped on wednesday so hopefully that’ll be soon enough!

If it is a bad unit contacting Willsound might be a good idea?


----------



## chinmie

subwoof3r said:


> Ok, I'm listening my PK32 since 1 hour after it's first 7 hours of burning : I'm still very deceived by it. There is absolutely NO bass at all. I decided to put Heigi full thick foams to remedy on that and put +2db on infra-bass on Foobar2000 and still NO bass. I'm wondering if my pair is defect or if it's normal? it is probably the most bass-left earbud that I did tried for many years.
> At least, I recognize the gorgeous natural sound from Willsound, but upper-mids are much forwarded and highs are ok but still not yet impressive to my ears. It lacks clarity and definition. PK32 clearly sounds like V-shaped reversed. Soundstage is also also not very large.
> Problem is that it's not a problem of Yuin shells, as I owned Yuin PK1 in the past and it was one of my better bass quality earbuds ever.
> I found listening to PK32 is a tiring experience, giving me a beginning of headache.
> ...



the PK32 should sound bassiest in the beginning and would lessen on the midbass after burn in, but the bass should still be deep. it should not be reverse V shaped with no bass like that. try contact willy to discuss this

if i may, what is your other earbuds/iems/headphonea you currently use for reference?


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

I just got some Monk lites today.  The 40ohms as they are mostly for my phone.  I really like the sound!  Considerably more clarity than the monk + with a larger stage and more definition of instruments.  Generally more “energetic”.  Not as much bass, but the bass is more defined.  Fun buds...I like the fit of the smaller shell quite a bit too...


----------



## 40760

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> I just got some Monk lites today.  The 40ohms as they are mostly for my phone.  I really like the sound!  Considerably more clarity than the monk + with a larger stage and more definition of instruments.  Generally more “energetic”.  Not as much bass, but the bass is more defined.  Fun buds...I like the fit of the smaller shell quite a bit too...



You should try the 120ohm version! It's not that hard to drive even with it's higher impedance rating. Much better than the 40ohm.


----------



## WillSound

subwoof3r said:


> Ok, I'm listening my PK32 since 1 hour after it's first 7 hours of burning : I'm still very deceived by it. There is absolutely NO bass at all. I decided to put Heigi full thick foams to remedy on that and put +2db on infra-bass on Foobar2000 and still NO bass. I'm wondering if my pair is defect or if it's normal? it is probably the most bass-left earbud that I did tried for many years.
> At least, I recognize the gorgeous natural sound from Willsound, but upper-mids are much forwarded and highs are ok but still not yet impressive to my ears. It lacks clarity and definition. PK32 clearly sounds like V-shaped reversed. Soundstage is also also not very large.
> Problem is that it's not a problem of Yuin shells, as I owned Yuin PK1 in the past and it was one of my better bass quality earbuds ever.
> I found listening to PK32 is a tiring experience, giving me a beginning of headache.
> ...


PK32 must be basshead after 10-20 hours burned and best after 100 hours burned.


----------



## 40760

WillSound said:


> PK32 must be basshead after 10-20 hours burned and best after 100 hours burned.



Can you share with us the recommended burn in time for each Willsound model?


----------



## subwoof3r (Jun 1, 2018)

Thanks everybody for your suggestions, appreciated 



chinmie said:


> if i may, what is your other earbuds/iems/headphonea you currently use for reference?


Mainly: Willsound MK2 rev2, MK1 rev2 (sold recently but can still remember well). If it can help I still have the following to compare : EMX500S, Edifier H180, VE Monk (rev1)
Can you please tell me what difference you really feel between those models in bass domain? because to me it's like 2 different worlds yet.



WillSound said:


> PK32 must be basshead after 10-20 hours burned and best after 100 hours burned.


Thank you very much for your reply, I will let them burn for at least 150 hours and I will report back


----------



## WillSound

palestofwhite said:


> Can you share with us the recommended burn in time for each Willsound model?


MK1 50 hours, MK2 50 hours, mk3 50 hours, PK32 and 300 Ohms 100 hours. but after 20 hours should be better and okay to used high volume, very first time just used low or mid volume.


----------



## chinmie

subwoof3r said:


> Thanks everybody for your suggestions, appreciated
> 
> 
> Mainly: Willsound MK2 rev2, MK1 rev2 (sold recently but can still remember well). If it can help I still have the following to compare : EMX500S, Edifier H180, VE Monk (rev1)
> ...



All you listed (except monk 1,haven't heard of it) are bass heavy hitters. When compared to the PK32 immediately after listening to the others listed, the PK32 might sound lighter on bass.. But i still think it's odd because before burning the PK32 sounds the bassiest (more midbass), well at least the one i have. Even now the bass on my unit is still have ample amount after hours of use


----------



## subwoof3r

chinmie said:


> But i still think it's odd because before burning the PK32 sounds the bassiest (more midbass), well at least the one i have. Even now the bass on my unit is still have ample amount after hours of use


Compared to your MK2 rev2 pair (which is known to have a decent quantity of mid-bass), are they almost the exact same for you? (it's just to have an idea)


----------



## 40760

WillSound said:


> MK1 50 hours, MK2 50 hours, mk3 50 hours, PK32 and 300 Ohms 100 hours. but after 20 hours should be better and okay to used high volume, very first time just used low or mid volume.



Thank you! This information will be useful as more people are owning Willsound earbuds...


----------



## chinmie

subwoof3r said:


> Compared to your MK2 rev2 pair (which is known to have a decent quantity of mid-bass), are they almost the exact same for you? (it's just to have an idea)



Nope, the MK line would be bigger midbass than the PK32, with the MK3 the most similar (but still a bit bigger midbass) to the PK32. I'll get back to you after i make sure comparing when i get home


----------



## handwander

Think these have been talked about before but has anyone here ordered? 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Lin...e-MMCX-Earbuds-32ohm-DIY-PK1/32867662218.html


----------



## dheepak10 (Jun 1, 2018)

Hey everyone, Posted my impression on the V-Master here. Hope you guys like it!
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/v-master-from-v-friend.23136/reviews#review-20392


----------



## chaiyuta

This might be the first English review one of V-Master. Respect your effort.


----------



## chinmie

subwoof3r said:


> Compared to your MK2 rev2 pair (which is known to have a decent quantity of mid-bass), are they almost the exact same for you? (it's just to have an idea)



just tested the MKs: for info, i always use thin foams with my MK2 (rev1), and also i see willy sent his MKs with thin foams attached, but it seems not as thin/porous as my MK2, and i use hiegis with the PK32.

using MKs with hiegis make the bass (especially midbass) overwhelming for my taste. PK32 with hiegis have a nice subbass and still detailed on the treble.



dheepak10 said:


> Hey everyone, Posted my impression on the V-Master here. Hope you guys like it!
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/v-master-from-v-friend.23136/reviews#review-20392



nice review, and on point to what i feel when i auditioned the V master


----------



## subwoof3r

chinmie said:


> PK32 with hiegis have a nice subbass and still detailed on the treble.


Are you serious about talking of sub-bass on your PK32 pair ? mine after 30 hours of burning is still definitely bass anemic and absolutely (of course) no sub-bass at all.
I think I have a defective pair, it cannot be possible. We have very different minds on our PK32. I will contact Willy soon if the pair does not change for the next few days, but for now I can't really say it did changed, or only slightly (but definitely not in bass domain).


----------



## chinmie (Jun 1, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> Are you serious about talking of sub-bass on your PK32 pair ? mine after 30 hours of burning is still definitely bass anemic and absolutely (of course) no sub-bass at all.
> I think I have a defective pair, it cannot be possible. We have very different minds on our PK32. I will contact Willy soon if the pair does not change for the next few days, but for now I can't really say it did changed, or only slightly (but definitely not in bass domain).



yes in extension, but volume wise it's lesser amount than MK2, but it still have that sub reverberation. i try some Massive Attack and this playlist to test it 



@Guggga how's your PK32 unit doing? is it bass anemic too?


----------



## doggiemom

cathee said:


> I'm still waiting to give it the full 200 hr burn in Herry recommended before I make any definitive statements about the sound. But OOTB I've noticed bigger stage/better separation (even for song with a tight arrangement), a little less bass but definitely tighter/more controlled, also the mids don't feel as recessed but definitely still slightly v- or u-shaped.


The case I received with the Zoomfreds is a zip up travel case, but quite large - about the length of an iPhone, but wider and thicker.

At first I was worried that the Zoomfreds were too bright, but over time the highs have tamed.  The sub bass is impressive for an earbud, and they have great imaging and soundstage.  Full disclosure:  I have become something of a Cypherus fangirl.  When I am able to listen to music at work (maybe a day or two a week), the Campfred2 and HiBy R6 is my go-to portable setup.  I love the CAX Black, though can only use those at home when sitting still because of the rigidness of the cable.  I also own the Blue Darth, but haven't given them a fair listen.  

I have a pretty decent collection of commercial and small maker buds (from the very affordable Wilsound to pretty pricey Blur), but there is just something about the sound of all the CAX products that I like....... they are all different, but the tuning and soundstage really appeals to me.


----------



## waynes world

subwoof3r said:


> Thanks everybody for your suggestions, appreciated
> 
> 
> Mainly: Willsound MK2 rev2, MK1 rev2 (sold recently but can still remember well). If it can help I still have the following to compare : EMX500S, Edifier H180, VE Monk (rev1)
> Can you please tell me what difference you really feel between those models in bass domain? because to me it's like 2 different worlds yet.



Just curious: how do you like the bass on your MK2 rev2's?


----------



## Guggga

My pk32 are going boom boom fine, very enjoyable. That said, they wont extend low like the Mks.


----------



## snip3r77

Guggga said:


> My pk32 are going boom boom fine, very enjoyable. That said, they wont extend low like the Mks.


Still burning my mk3 I think it's about 40hours already . Don't think there is much change , not a believer in burning in


----------



## Guggga

I don't burn in explicitly, but it does affect the sound. My mk2 rev2 has over 100 hrs on it and a colleague at work got his two weeks back after hearing mine. His has about 30 hrs on it and in comparison my unit sounds bigger, thicker and bassier with more trebel extension.
Quite noticeably too, my colleague was taken aback by the difference.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 2, 2018)

Guggga said:


> I don't burn in explicitly, but it does affect the sound. My mk2 rev2 has over 100 hrs on it and a colleague at work got his two weeks back after hearing mine. His has about 30 hrs on it and in comparison my unit sounds bigger, thicker and bassier with more trebel extension.
> Quite noticeably too, my colleague was taken aback by the difference.


I think it completely depends on the driver, some sound good out of box, others improve. For me it’s usually subtle but we love subtle differences in this hobby hence why we buy so much earbuds 

I don’t really burn mine in either and just listen away, but if seller specifically says to burn in, no harm in following advice and see what it does


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> I think it completely depends on the driver, some sound good out of box, others improve. For me it’s usually subtle but we love subtle differences in this hobby hence why we buy so much earbuds
> 
> I don’t really burn mine in either and just listen away, but if seller specifically says to burn in, no harm in following advice and see what it does



I usually don't like burn in something, but some cases they do change sound after a few hours of play. The most obvious case was the TY32 that i once had, the first time ootb it sounded choked, but sounded better after just a few hours of play, whereas the TY32S (red cable) sounded good and doesn't change much even after hours.

But still, i generally won't put up with anything that only sound good/listenable only after hours of play. With the Willsound they sound good ootb and matured after hours of play, so i just consider the maturing up part as a bonus


----------



## subwoof3r

waynes world said:


> Just curious: how do you like the bass on your MK2 rev2's?


Bass on MK2 rev2 is just impressive, there is plenty of bass (maybe too much due to mid-bass presence), it is lacking a bit of sub-bass (even if it's still present by default). Compared to PK32 it's another world. On PK32 you have to guess (if you don't know your tracks well already) that there is bass on them.
King of bass for me is still definitely EMX500S (perfect presence of sub-bass and bass, which make them sounding like headphones).

Also, I feel that PK32 is a bit less natural than MK series due to it's inversed V-shaped sounding. mids are too forwarded to really sound natural.



Guggga said:


> My pk32 are going boom boom fine, very enjoyable. That said, they wont extend low like the Mks.


My pair has definitely no "boom boom" from bass side. Not "enjoyable" at all in bass domain.
My pair is now 50 hours of burning, sound did not really changed significantly for now, but I keep trusting.


----------



## seanc6441

subwoof3r said:


> Bass on MK2 rev2 is just impressive, there is plenty of bass (maybe too much due to mid-bass presence), it is lacking a bit of sub-bass (even if it's still present by default). Compared to PK32 it's another world. On PK32 you have to guess (if you don't know your tracks well already) that there is bass on them.
> King of bass for me is still definitely EMX500S (perfect presence of sub-bass and bass, which make them sounding like headphones).
> 
> Also, I feel that PK32 is a bit less natural than MK series due to it's inversed V-shaped sounding. mids are too forwarded to really sound natural.
> ...


If there’s an issue with your PK32 in the bass this may also give you the impression of mids being too forward as there is no bass to balance it out.

I’ll listen to mine once it arrives and see if I can make anything of it, but it really does seem like you got the defect of the bunch.


----------



## Guggga

subwoof3r said:


> Bass on MK2 rev2 is just impressive, there is plenty of bass (maybe too much due to mid-bass presence), it is lacking a bit of sub-bass (even if it's still present by default). Compared to PK32 it's another world. On PK32 you have to guess (if you don't know your tracks well already) that there is bass on them.
> King of bass for me is still definitely EMX500S (perfect presence of sub-bass and bass, which make them sounding like headphones).
> 
> Also, I feel that PK32 is a bit less natural than MK series due to it's inversed V-shaped sounding. mids are too forwarded to really sound natural.
> ...



Perhaps they need to burn in properly for a couple of days for the sound to settle. Most buds dont sound the same ootb vs more usage. 

See if in a week's time or so they dont sound like mines or Chinmies then you could check with willy if they need fixing or something.


----------



## snip3r77 (Jun 3, 2018)

To check sub bass

Pls use James Blake - Limit to your love.


----------



## sofastreamer

I am new to buds. Could you please recommend some options up to 200usd? Most important is a very deep and tall soundstage, with somewhat foreward projections.
SIgnature wise i like neutral top to bottom with little bit warmth and relaxed mids. Subbass extension should be as deep as possible in this pricerange for a bud.


----------



## Guggga

snip3r77 said:


> To check sub bass
> 
> Pls use James Blake - Limit to your love.



With the mk1 rev 2. Wow, just wow.

I don't even dare to listen with the mk1 rev1.


----------



## Guggga (Jun 2, 2018)

~double post~
Dabassmademedoit.


----------



## 40760

Guggga said:


> With the mk1 rev 2. Wow, just wow.
> 
> I don't even dare to listen with the mk1 rev1.



I can't wait for the rest of the Willsounds to arrive and join my MK2...


----------



## sofastreamer

in addition to my search: i do not and will never use eqs.


----------



## subwoof3r

snip3r77 said:


> To check sub bass
> 
> Pls use James Blake - Limit to your love.


I tried to make a first listen of this track using PK32 and I never heard any sub-bass (nor bass) at all. So I firstly thought it was a joke, but when I gave a second listen with my MK2 rev2, I was like chocked! incredible sub-bass and bass on this track, amazing. Can't imagine on EMX500S.. ^^
Again, it confirms then that my pair has definitely a problem, but I will still wait few more days to finish at least 100 hours (as recommended by Willy).


----------



## Razorbud

What's an earbud with a low sensitivity and uses the pk32 shells?


----------



## RuFrost

sofastreamer said:


> I am new to buds. Could you please recommend some options up to 200usd? Most important is a very deep and tall soundstage, with somewhat foreward projections.
> SIgnature wise i like neutral top to bottom with little bit warmth and relaxed mids. Subbass extension should be as deep as possible in this pricerange for a bud.


Buy balanced Shozy BK Stardust and forget hustle with earbuds, because the search there will suck huge part of your life, which does not really cost the spendings. 
P.s: Also for you soundsignature greatly will work TY HI-Z AWK-F150TS. The best bass and subass on earbuds ever (except few top-notch models such as  zen Black Cardas, Diomnes LV2 deeply pushed down to the eardrum)


----------



## gazzington

Not sure what buds to try next. I have:
Vido
Emx500
Emxs500
Snow lotus
Graphene
Tomahawk
2 blurs
Zen lites
Monks
Those two bs1 that came as a set
Rx-1

Not sure where to go next. Think I'd like a big wide sound with lots of detail.


----------



## HungryPanda

NiceHCK EBX


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> NiceHCK EBX



I knew you were going to say that... I need to listen to it sometime.


----------



## gazzington

Sounds like my next purchase.


----------



## HungryPanda (Jun 2, 2018)

It's at home dig it out and enjoy. I tell a lie it is in my bag ( cannot leave it alone) : )


----------



## antdroid

It's been a couple months since I looked at earbuds, but after getting several new IEMs, I've been pretty happy with what I've gotten. That said, I lost a set of tips on my IEMs the other day and was stuck using something slightly uncomfortable and my ears were in pain for a couple days. It sucked because I didnt have any trusty earbuds on me at the time at work!! And I left my over-ears at home! 

So, in a moment of panick, I decided to order more earbuds lol. I picked up the **** PT15 and the Yincrow X6 mostly because they were cheap and I could use them for teleconferences on my work phone if needed. 

I also just took apart my VE Monk Lite (120ohm) SPC cable and soldered on a 2.5mm balanced connector onto it for fun. I really dislike the cable though, it's way too sticky and springy for my tastes.


----------



## wskl (Jun 2, 2018)

Razorbud said:


> What's an earbud with a low sensitivity and uses the pk32 shells?



edit: ignore my original reply, I misread your question.


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> I knew you were going to say that... I need to listen to it sometime.



Grab that bag!


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 2, 2018)

waynes world said:


> Grab that bag!



He and his bag are at work 

Anyway,  I have been enjoying my Willsound and my Faaeal Rosemary this week


----------



## snip3r77

60hours burn in for my mk2
No complaints .


----------



## 40760

snip3r77 said:


> 60hours burn in for my mk2
> No complaints .



Do you also happen to have the other Willsounds?


----------



## RobinFood

I'm about to pull the trigger on the Willsound PK32.
I've always wanted to try Yuin shells. 
I am wondering before I do to people who have them, how do the PK32s compare to the Shozy Cygnus and BK.
I can afford any three of those right now.
Also, if I save up for another month, I can afford the Moondrop Liebeslieb locally, so I would get them roughly at the same time as shipping the other products.
Which is best if I am going for a realistic natural high-quality TOTL sound, comfortable fit, and nice wide soundstage?


----------



## snip3r77

palestofwhite said:


> Do you also happen to have the other Willsounds?


Only got 1 considering to get mk1.


----------



## chinmie

snip3r77 said:


> To check sub bass
> 
> Pls use James Blake - Limit to your love.



now for those who have them : try this song with Svara L


----------



## capnjack

Anyone got a pair of Blur White Chocolate and willing to share their impressions of the sound? I’ve got a pair incoming and just wondering what to expect.


----------



## snip3r77

chinmie said:


> now for those who have them : try this song with Svara L


y with Svara L?


----------



## chinmie

snip3r77 said:


> y with Svara L?



It has bigger bass 
Overall the MK2 has better SQ though


----------



## audionab

Update : I just got my full foams for my transcend earbuds and man the bass returned also it is more comfortable and has slightly more isolation but still there is no good seal
the cymbals on these are abysmal i had to increase the 10khz frequency by 10db to see some hope still it was bad
the mids are also muffled 
there is no sub bass extension but mid bass is still manageable 
the soundstage is wide but soundscape is bad also the layering sucks
i made a deep v shape in eq for casual gaming purposes only now
i will consider buying ve monk+ seeing the soundstage difference between buds and iems


----------



## redkingjoe

capnjack said:


> Anyone got a pair of Blur White Chocolate and willing to share their impressions of the sound? I’ve got a pair incoming and just wondering what to expect.



I have a pair of blur too.

Sadly, that guy usually makes only a few pairs of earbuds of each model!

 A hell lot of new names coming out every month.


----------



## snip3r77

Gotta listen to this.


----------



## doggiemom

redkingjoe said:


> I have a pair of blur too.
> 
> Sadly, that guy usually makes only a few pairs of earbuds of each model!
> 
> A hell lot of new names coming out every month.


I was listening to Blur 魔音 last night.  It is one of his earlier buds, so I think there are more than a couple of this model floating around.  The vocals are forward and natural sounding.  The soundstage and placement is good.  I do find these lacking in bass though.

What @redkingjoe said is correct...... with so many "new" models coming out all the time, I'd be hesitant to buy another set of Blur buds.  I do like them, but at their price point I'd like to know that I would be getting something that sounds different rather than just a different shell or cable color.


----------



## subwoof3r (Jun 3, 2018)

@WillSound can we please have your thought on PK32 sub-bass and bass domain (compared to MK2 rev2 for exemple) ?
Could be intersting from the autor himself 

My PK32 still intrigates me a lot those days.
I don't know what to think about PK32, they are globally good earbuds and acts diffrently than MK series. They are not fun but cold, although a bit unnatural sounding. Mids and highs are finally very good (mids still clearly forwarded). There is plenty of details on PK32 that we can't hear in MK series. Soundstage is finally not so thin as I previously said. It has good level but not as good as MK series. Instrument separation is always much better in your MK1 rev2.
I guess PK32 has been designed for critial listening first. But mainly for vocals and pop-music only. I'm right?
Highs are a bit hidden by the forwarded mids, and bass is still definitely unpresent on my pair.
I tried the bass boost switch on my FiiO E10K (I generally dislike those kind of switches..) and bass begin to be there but definitely not as present as MK2 rev2, and sub-bass is still lacking big 
_
**edit**: thank you very much to Willy, he will send me another PK32 pair and have to make a compare to decide which unit I decide to return, which is really cool from him! I stay you guys tuned! _


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> now for those who have them : try this song with Svara L



That's a fun thing to try! My, what a whacky song (been a while).



chinmie said:


> It has bigger bass
> Overall the MK2 has better SQ though



Well, you don't have the 32ohm version 

I honestly couldn't tell you which of the two (Svara L 32ohm or Willsound MK2 rev2) have the better sound quality overall - all I can say it that either one rocks, and that they are both incredibly satisfying to my ears


----------



## Magic_The

So i own Vido diy for 3 days, what can i say, wow!!!!!!!! i dont understand 
of how people can listen with balanced/ neutral/ you name it sound.. i mean this one has great bass ( i like the sound of Vido more than Edifier p180) Edifier p180 is pretty good,  i also own some Sony, Philips, Aiwa hp, and Panasonic with the same type, and how people can love it? crappy sound with no bass, bass is a must heve, its realistic to hear, Vido is my favorite earbuds, now im waiting to Yincrow rw-9 to arrive.


----------



## seanc6441

Magic_The said:


> So i own Vido diy for 3 days, what can i say, wow!!!!!!!! i dont understand
> of how people can listen with balanced/ neutral/ you name it sound.. i mean this one has great bass ( i like the sound of Vido more than Edifier p180) Edifier p180 is pretty good,  i also own some Sony, Philips, Aiwa hp, and Panasonic with the same type, and how people can love it? crappy sound with no bass, bass is a must heve, its realistic to hear, Vido is my favorite earbuds, now im waiting to Yincrow rw-9 to arrive.


You gave me a good chuckle!

Vido is zig zag kind of sig, up and down in various area's and obviously it is up in the sub bass.

Many people like close to neutral, doesn't mean ruler flat. Just means they like not too many peaks or dips which can be unnatural.

I like close to neutral, but slightly raised in mid bass and low mid vs sub bass (very slightly) and I like a raise in upper vocal for clarity and upper treble for air.

Everyone has their preference


----------



## Carrow

Hey @seanc6441 how's that braided Masya cable working out for you?


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> I like close to neutral, but slightly raised in mid bass and low mid vs sub bass (very slightly) and I like a raise in upper vocal for clarity and upper treble for air.


I like listening to music.


----------



## chinmie

Magic_The said:


> So i own Vido diy for 3 days, what can i say, wow!!!!!!!! i dont understand
> of how people can listen with balanced/ neutral/ you name it sound.. i mean this one has great bass ( i like the sound of Vido more than Edifier p180) Edifier p180 is pretty good,  i also own some Sony, Philips, Aiwa hp, and Panasonic with the same type, and how people can love it? crappy sound with no bass, bass is a must heve, its realistic to hear, Vido is my favorite earbuds, now im waiting to Yincrow rw-9 to arrive.



The vido does the bass section so good that it can rival much higher priced buds. But once you do hear the much higher priced buds, you'll notice that it's not "all about the bass" and that vido does the mids, treble, soundstage, at just okay level... Heck, even a retuned/recabled vido would surprise you on what you're missing out from the stock vido. 

Going up the price chain is a dangerous road for the wallet though  but if you do want to, i recommend the Willsound MK1 or MK2. It has vido level of bass, and a whole better SQ and build than the vido


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 3, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> I like listening to music.


I like experiencing music 

Tends to be that little bit more enjoyable when I have earbuds I just cannot put away 

All joking aside as long as we are enjoying it that’s all that matters.



Carrow said:


> Hey @seanc6441 how's that braided Masya cable working out for you?


Oh hey bud sorry forgot to reply I got it right after sending out yours. All good I’m actually thinking of buying some small paracord and shrink wrap to give it a new stealthy black look altogether!

Plus I like DIYing so it should be some fun


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> Going up the price chain is a dangerous road for the wallet though  but if you do want to, i recommend the Willsound MK1 or MK2. It has vido level of bass, and a whole better SQ and build than the vido



Dangerous for the wallet, but good for the ears!

I have a hate/love relationship listening to the likes of you and pandaman (and, of course, his better half) 

Of course, mostly love


----------



## Carrow

seanc6441 said:


> Oh hey bud sorry forgot to reply I got it right after sending out yours. All good I’m actually thinking of buying some small paracord and shrink wrap to give it a new stealthy black look altogether!
> 
> Plus I like DIYing so it should be some fun



Sometimes Y is the best way to DI.  Show us what that looks like if you get it done!


----------



## redkingjoe

doggiemom said:


> I was listening to Blur 魔音 last night.  It is one of his earlier buds, so I think there are more than a couple of this model floating around.  The vocals are forward and natural sounding.  The soundstage and placement is good.  I do find these lacking in bass though.
> 
> What @redkingjoe said is correct...... with so many "new" models coming out all the time, I'd be hesitant to buy another set of Blur buds.  I do like them, but at their price point I'd like to know that I would be getting something that sounds different rather than just a different shell or cable color.



My blur sounds great when comparing to a few TOTL that I have on hand.

With silver shelf and gold/silver cable, My blur look very beautiful.

But I regretted buying it. It felt like getting an outdated model the moment I received my earbuds since new models came out quicker than I believe. It also seems extremely difficult to sell it secondhand as no one know the sound signature of it.


----------



## chinmie (Jun 4, 2018)

waynes world said:


> Dangerous for the wallet, but good for the ears!
> 
> I have a hate/love relationship listening to the likes of you and pandaman (and, of course, his better half)
> 
> Of course, mostly love



Phew! glad to hear that....by the way, have you tried (insert new stuff here) it sounds greeeeat !!!   



redkingjoe said:


> My blur sounds great when comparing to a few TOTL that I have on hand.
> 
> With silver shelf and gold/silver cable, My blur look very beautiful.
> 
> But I regretted buying it. It felt like getting an outdated model the moment I received my earbuds since new models came out quicker than I believe. It also seems extremely difficult to sell it secondhand as no one know the sound signature of it.



i always wanted to try the Blur, but no one of my friends have tried/owned them, so i'm not sure i would want to take a risk.

What other TOTL that you have/compared the blur with?


----------



## 40760

Those with earbuds that come in white MX500 shells, do they turn yellowish of off-white as they age?


----------



## chaiyuta (Jun 4, 2018)

Lucky me that I had a chance to try Blur 魔音. Likes Mr. Joel Thong reviews stated, I share his opinion as well. Consider to Blur TOTL price tag, I could get 2 of the giant three of my local Thai DIY earbuds consisting of ICONIC Beyond, Prakarn Niranam 185Ohm and Miracle earbuds~.


----------



## margroth (Jun 4, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> Lucky me that I had a chance to try Blur 魔音. Likes Mr. Joel Thong reviews stated, I share his opinion as well. Consider to Blur TOTL price tag, I could get 2 of the giant three of my local Thai DIY earbuds consisting of ICONIC Beyond, Prakarn Niranam 185Ohm and Miracle earbuds~.



The Beyond was just released recently right? How does it sound? 

I've known N&P for a while, as someone in Thailand mentioned them to have a bright soundsig with heavy bass (Toxic Viper version), which fits my taste.

I have no idea about the Miracle buds though 

I do have a Blur Chocolate 300 Ohm though, and while it sounded wonderful with an excellent source (namely Hifiman HM901S), it did not have the same magic pairing with my gear (GO2A + Leckerton UHA760), so I'm thinking of letting it go for a easier-to-drive bud, until I could get a better setup...


----------



## chaiyuta

@margroth : I did the first impression of ICONIC Beyond Mark I on here and a bit impression of Miracle earbuds on here.


----------



## margroth

chaiyuta said:


> @margroth : I did the first impression of ICONIC Beyond Mark I on here and a bit impression of Miracle earbuds on here.



Dayum, thank you for the quick impressions. It seemed that you are in favor of the Miracle in comparing it with the SWD2+ (which I happened to listen for quite a while). May I ask more information about purchasing the Miracle buds? It appears to be quire interesting


----------



## chaiyuta

Warp to Miracle brand owner contact.


----------



## redkingjoe

chinmie said:


> Phew!
> 
> i always wanted to try the Blur, but no one of my friends have tried/owned them, so i'm not sure i would want to take a risk.
> 
> What other TOTL that you have/compared the blur with?



Besides listening to the silver shelf Blur, I listen frequently to Sony Mdr-e888, Sony  Mdr-e484, Shozy BK, Shozy BK blue(silver cable edition)! All of these produce satisfying sound to me.

The two Sony were the kings in 199x-201x. The materials used are still superior to 99% of the earbud on the market.

Personally, I like the sound of Blur. it feels real bad when you are holding a earbuds with almost no market value, unless you sell it at deep deep discount.


----------



## margroth (Jun 4, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> Warp to Miracle brand owner contact.



Any idea on the prices? I'm considering getting a bud from Thailand soon, either Airman, N&P or Miracle, something strong in the bass department since I have the AbNormal LV2 for treble and Blur for mid-focus listening already. I'd love to spend under 5.000 Baht at most, but I can go a bit over if the quality is top notch comparing to my other buds 




redkingjoe said:


> Besides listening to the silver shelf Blur, I listen frequently to Sony Mdr-e888, Sony  Mdr-e484, Shozy BK, Shozy BK blue(silver cable edition)! All of these produce satisfying sound to me.
> 
> The two Sony were the kings in 199x-201x. The materials used are still superior to 99% of the earbud on the market.
> 
> Personally, I like the sound of Blur. it feels real bad when you are holding a earbuds with almost no market value, unless you sell it at deep deep discount.



Luckily, I'm having a Blur Chocolate as well, but the Sony E888 looks tempting  The problem is that there are many fake E888s on the market and getting a real one is becoming harder...


----------



## chaiyuta (Jun 4, 2018)

Many praise Prakarn Niranam 185Ohm earbuds excel on Rock & Metal genre. If you strongly focus on Bass region. I think the Norne SPC cable version might suit your budget and a good price per performance ratio. Though The show case model, Nordost Heimdall 2 red cable version is the best SQ among all.

Updated : ICONIC Beyond and Miracle earbuds is about more or less $300. Prakarn Niranam 185Ohm Toxic Silver poison is around $270.


----------



## snip3r77

redkingjoe said:


> Besides listening to the silver shelf Blur, I listen frequently to Sony Mdr-e888, Sony  Mdr-e484, Shozy BK, Shozy BK blue(silver cable edition)! All of these produce satisfying sound to me.
> 
> The two Sony were the kings in 199x-201x. The materials used are still superior to 99% of the earbud on the market.
> 
> Personally, I like the sound of Blur. it feels real bad when you are holding a earbuds with almost no market value, unless you sell it at deep deep discount.


Perhaps Sony should produce earbuds haha


----------



## handwander

Decided to get monk lites just to see if I preferred the shell in case I ever wanted to get something higher end with the same one (someone buy me a zen lite pls.) 

Like the shape but the bass might be less than emx500s I own, though not sure if that's just because the smaller shell meaning a less tight seal. Like them either way and they seem more comfortable. Will try them out for the day tomorrow to see how they fatigue in comparison.


----------



## redkingjoe

margroth said:


> Luckily, I'm having a Blur Chocolate as well, but the Sony E888 looks tempting  The problem is that there are many fake E888s on the market and getting a real one is becoming harder...



The Sony 282, 484 and 888 are the best investments in earbuds. Get a good pair( with decent price) and if you didn’t like it, keep it awhile. The second hand price keeps going up. You can check eBay for the traded price! 888 is the most affordable one of the three. Just make sure you get the made in Japan version of 888. It sounds better than the Thailand’s.


----------



## Qualcheduno

Can someone help me to identify these buds?












SQ is nothing special (dark and hollow sound), but I'm curious nonetheless since I never saw that logo before, and I can't find anything on google.


----------



## redkingjoe

chaiyuta said:


> The show case model, Nordost Heimdall 2 red cable version is the best SQ among all.
> 
> .


Actually, the cable has a high correlation with SQ! I learned that from Sony when I was a kid! 

Nordost makes great cable.i used them in my hifi system before. I wish there will be a Nordost earbuds cable which uses the Odin.

Btw, which earbuds use the Heimdall 2?

Thanks!


----------



## redkingjoe

snip3r77 said:


> Perhaps Sony should produce earbuds haha



They are producing super low end earbuds currently!

Very sad!


----------



## chaiyuta (Jun 4, 2018)

redkingjoe said:


> Actually, the cable has a high correlation with SQ! I learned that from Sony when I was a kid!
> 
> Nordost makes great cable.i used them in my hifi system before. I wish there will be a Nordost earbuds cable which uses the Odin.
> 
> ...



It is the show case model of Prakarn Niranam 185Ohm earbuds. Check on my post.



Spoiler: Prakarn Niranam earbuds


----------



## golov17

Low price for good buds, guys.. 
Sunrise SW-Dragon II (SWD2) SR120 120ohm
http://s.aliexpress.com/E3AzERrE


----------



## Guggga

^^ What's the sound signature of these buds Golov bro.


----------



## golov17

Guggga said:


> ^^ What's the sound signature of these buds Golov bro.


https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/sunrise-audio-dragon2.16189/reviews#review-8831


----------



## kfarndog

i always wanted to try the Blur, but no one of my friends have tried/owned them, so i'm not sure i would want to take a risk.

What other TOTL that you have/compared the blur with?[/QUOTE]

*I was fortunate to acquire some Blur somewhat recently.  I find myself reaching for them or my Cypherus CampFred most often when I go the earbud route.*


----------



## ShabtabQ

Anybody have any idea about how BEY 01 from rholupat sounds, and I'm thinking of jumping on willsounds train which should I get first?


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> I like experiencing music



Me too, and it is probably splitting hairs, but I can't bring myself to use that verb to describe any listening session at home.  Summer concert season is starting, and I have tickets to a few shows...... can't wait!  To me, sitting in the open air and listening to great artists with fellow fans is an experience that the best audio equipment can't replicate.  (Though, how I try........ but going to concerts requires planning ahead, getting a dog sitter, leaving the house, driving some distance, then potentially using a dirty bathroom.....   hence the head-fi obsession).



redkingjoe said:


> But I regretted buying it. It felt like getting an outdated model the moment I received my earbuds since new models came out quicker than I believe. It also seems extremely difficult to sell it secondhand as no one know the sound signature of it.



Yeah, the marketing strategy is a bit odd.  I find myself going all Pokemon and obsessively collecting all the Monk+ colors and limited editions that come out, but that is not an option with the Blurs because of their price point.



kfarndog said:


> i always wanted to try the Blur, but no one of my friends have tried/owned them, so i'm not sure i would want to take a risk.
> 
> What other TOTL that you have/compared the blur with?



*I was fortunate to acquire some Blur somewhat recently.  I find myself reaching for them or my Cypherus CampFred most often when I go the earbud route.*[/QUOTE]

I do enjoy the Blur that I have, and would not hesitate to recommend them.  They've gotten enough positive feedback that I trust that they are all of a high standard, I just can't see myself buying another model as the new models come out so frequently.


----------



## handwander

golov17 said:


> Low price


----------



## redkingjoe

chaiyuta said:


> It is the show case model of Prakarn Niranam 185Ohm earbuds. Check on my post.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Prakarn Niranam earbuds





Wow! It’s such a great event! 
Did you have a chance listen to (and compare)Sony MDR e272? How was it?
You listened to the Panasonic cd! How did you like those antique Discman?

Do they have a estimated price for nordost version of The prakarn niranam 185 ohm ?

Thanks! The thread is too long for me to follow!!


----------



## Razorbud

golov17 said:


> Low price for good buds, guys..
> Sunrise SW-Dragon II (SWD2) SR120 120ohm
> http://s.aliexpress.com/E3AzERrE



Whoa that is a fairly good price for this (I think?) 

Absolutely love the dragon aesthetic but I’m wondering if it’s possible to recable these


----------



## margroth

Razorbud said:


> Whoa that is a fairly good price for this (I think?)
> 
> Absolutely love the dragon aesthetic but I’m wondering if it’s possible to recable these



Yes it is possible - I once saw my friends recabling a pair of Dragon (not the 2nd one though) with Norne Skog cable, so it is entirely up to you and your skill LOL. For me, I'm not that good with soldering and stuff, so I often ask my friend to fulfill the task for me


----------



## chaiyuta

redkingjoe said:


> Wow! It’s such a great event!
> Did you have a chance listen to (and compare)Sony MDR e272? How was it?
> You listened to the Panasonic cd! How did you like those antique Discman?
> 
> ...



Sorry, I tried Sony MDR e272 less than 5 minutes (cause there are too many things during this meeting), and I did not try it with oldy or vintage sources. I tried it with DX200 AMP1, and I was not impressed at all. Perhaps It could be shined once it get a perfect matching couple likes AIWA D9 + Panasonic SL-J905 CD player do. Even AIWA D9 together with my DX200 sound becomes mediocre as if I am falling down from 7th floor of heaven (with that Panasonic player) to earth level. 

Consider the MSRP of Nordost Heimdall 2 (2m. for HD800) is around 1,000$. Then cut all connectors out for the sake of making this Prakarn Niranam earbuds version. The price of that 4.4 mm. Nideon plug is around 90$. The estimated price of this earbuds might be not less than 1,090$. However, if you could get Nordost Heimdall 2 cable second-hand price. Its price should be more cost down.


----------



## chaiyuta

New earbuds coming~ 'Carbene' Diaphragm from Earsuk (Thai-Chinese DIY earbuds brand) be called "Earsuk ZEN400". Interesting how 'Carbene' sounds~


----------



## mochill

chaiyuta said:


> New earbuds coming~ 'Carbene' Diaphragm from Earsuk (Thai-Chinese DIY earbuds brand) be called "Earsuk ZEN400". Interesting how 'Carbene' sounds~


How much


----------



## handwander

chaiyuta said:


> New earbuds coming~ 'Carbene' Diaphragm from Earsuk (Thai-Chinese DIY earbuds brand) be called "Earsuk ZEN400". Interesting how 'Carbene' sounds~


Your links don't work. Probably a members only group page or something.


----------



## chaiyuta (Jun 5, 2018)

Really? Perhaps only person who has the fb account. These link are from facebook fanpage. By the way, I did snapshot for you. Its price TBA.


----------



## handwander

Maybe just me then. I have an FB account but both pages you linked giving me this error - 


> Sorry, this content isn't available right now
> The link you followed may have expired, or the page may only be visible to an audience you're not in.


Anyway those look interesting.


----------



## kurtextrem

golov17 said:


> Low price for good buds, guys..
> Sunrise SW-Dragon II (SWD2) SR120 120ohm
> http://s.aliexpress.com/E3AzERrE


Please note: Those are NOT the 2+ !!!! They're a different model. And the SW-Dragon 2 has been around since 2013, see this review: http://totallydubbed.net/2013/09/22/sunrise-hifi-charm3-and-sw-dragon-2-earbud-review/


----------



## chaiyuta

Another funny packaging~ ICONIC Buds IB01 32 Ohm and ICONIC Buds IB02 64 Ohm~ Link

Supplementary tablet, Medicine or Drug?


----------



## golov17

kurtextrem said:


> Please note: Those are NOT the 2+ !!!! They're a different model. And the SW-Dragon 2 has been around since 2013, see this review: http://totallydubbed.net/2013/09/22/sunrise-hifi-charm3-and-sw-dragon-2-earbud-review/


do you mean other cable with an angled jack? Same drivers and housing, dont worry..


----------



## kurtextrem

golov17 said:


> do you mean other cable with an angled jack? Same drivers and housing, dont worry..


no, see here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1864#post-14017928
The Dragon 2+ has completely newer, different drivers than the original Dragon 2. Those are different earbuds, hence "2" and "2+" - and the price difference! (80$ now vs 300+ $)


----------



## seanc6441

doggiemom said:


> Me too, and it is probably splitting hairs, but I can't bring myself to use that verb to describe any listening session at home.  Summer concert season is starting, and I have tickets to a few shows...... can't wait!  To me, sitting in the open air and listening to great artists with fellow fans is an experience that the best audio equipment can't replicate.  (Though, how I try........ but going to concerts requires planning ahead, getting a dog sitter, leaving the house, driving some distance, then potentially using a dirty bathroom.....   hence the head-fi obsession).



It was more of a jokey comment but if I was to make a point out of it I’d say concerts are the the best way to experience music, the atmosphere and seeing your favourite artists live is amazing I completely agree.

But on the other hand I also love the sound/audio side of this hobby. Like how people ask do you listen to music or your headphones, I think I enjoy doing both haha

And sometimes if you wanna listen to good sound then chilling with your favourite headphones/earbuds and unwinding with your favourite music is another type of experience that I’d find it hard to live without.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 5, 2018)

I got my BK back from Shozy. It’s actually a brand new BK because I paid extra to upgrade to a 2.5mm balanced BK.



Of course now I need to get a 2.5-3.5mm adapter to use it with my LG V20. But I wanted to go balanced to give me the option  to use it in the future with a balanced DAP.

I did not have that leather case before, they included that for free. Nice touch Shozy! 

*I can compare to my PK32 when it arrives now, just need to grab that adapter. Any tips on which one to get? Is the fiio one the way to go?


----------



## HungryPanda

Hi Sean I use the Fiio L26 for my 2.5mm balanced to 3.5 SE


----------



## ShabtabQ

@seanc6441 , and I am waiting for you to test pk32 , as I couldn't buy the diy pk2, i have my aim on this or any other willsound now.


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> Hi Sean I use the Fiio L26 for my 2.5mm balanced to 3.5 SE





ShabtabQ said:


> @seanc6441 , and I am waiting for you to test pk32 , as I couldn't buy the diy pk2, i have my aim on this or any other willsound now.



Thanks ordered one from Fiio just now. Now the wait, hopefully not too long 

Getting the BK back I realise how much I missed that amazing cable. I love it so much. Such a well made earbud.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Thanks ordered one from Fiio just now. Now the wait, hopefully not too long
> 
> Getting the BK back I realise how much I missed that amazing cable. I love it so much. Such a well made earbud.



please share is the new BK different or not compared to your former BK (once you have the adapter). i was chatting with friend and he said he auditioned several BK and all of them have slight difference


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> please share is the new BK different or not compared to your former BK (once you have the adapter). i was chatting with friend and he said he auditioned several BK and all of them have slight difference


I’ll try my best to recall from memory, although it was a awhile since I heard my original BK.

That’s interesting though, I won’t complain if there is a touch more sub bass and upper treble


----------



## golov17 (Jun 5, 2018)

[QUOTE = "kurtextrem, post: 14284316, участник: 430768"]


kurtextrem said:


> no, see here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1864#post-14017928
> The Dragon 2+ has completely newer, different drivers than the original Dragon 2. Those are different earbuds, hence "2" and "2+" - and the price difference! (80$ now vs 300+ $)


.. we know this... Sunrise Dragon2 & Simphonio Dragon2+


----------



## golov17

golov17 said:


> do you mean other cable with an angled jack? Same drivers and housing, dont worry..


----------



## mochill

seanc6441 said:


> I’ll try my best to recall from memory, although it was a awhile since I heard my original BK.
> 
> That’s interesting though, I won’t complain if there is a touch more sub bass and upper treble


Now to burn in for 300hrs


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 5, 2018)

mochill said:


> Now to burn in for 300hrs


Oh joy! Maybe I’ll do intial impressions then burn them both in for 50-100 hours then give an updated impression.

I don’t think I’d have the patience for a 300 hour burn in...


----------



## mochill

Must have patients young one


----------



## seanc6441

mochill said:


> Must have patients young one


Yes Master Mochill


----------



## the diode

How do the Sunrise Dragon2 compare to the Penon BS1  Official?


----------



## doggiemom

chaiyuta said:


> New earbuds coming~ 'Carbene' Diaphragm from Earsuk (Thai-Chinese DIY earbuds brand) be called "Earsuk ZEN400". Interesting how 'Carbene' sounds~


I have a doctorate in chemistry, and I’m calling shenanigans on this carbene thing.    Carbenes have unpaired electrons so are not stable.  They will react and form something else.  They are intermediates to make other stuff, there is no way the final driver will be made of carbenes.


----------



## ld100

palestofwhite said:


> Sennheiser: MX 375



Are they any good? I been looking at them. There are 6 colors and they are like 15 dollars now. Used to be 35 I think...


----------



## mbwilson111

ld100 said:


> Are they any good? I been looking at them. There are 6 colors and they are like 15 dollars now. Used to be 35 I think...



I have the Sennheiser MX375 and find it to be a very good comfortable all rounder.  Are you sure about the six colors?  Mine are black.  I know the 365 comes in several colors.


----------



## jant71 (Jun 5, 2018)

MX375 has one color lol! MX365 sound a bit blurred and out of focus vs. them and should be skipped IMO 



doggiemom said:


> I have a doctorate in chemistry, and I’m calling shenanigans on this carbene thing.    Carbenes have unpaired electrons so are not stable.  They will react and form something else.  They are intermediates to make other stuff, there is no way the final driver will be made of carbenes.



Perhaps they have Graphene and Carbon(another of the type that is not Graphene) diaphragm layers and are being cute with Carbenes


----------



## ld100

mbwilson111 said:


> I have the Sennheiser MX375 and find it to be a very good comfortable all rounder.  Are you sure about the six colors?  Mine are black.  I know the 365 comes in several colors.




https://en-us.sennheiser.com/earbuds-headphones-stereo-mx-365

"
Overview

Classic design meet expressive colours - The MX 365 earbuds are these and more! Choose from 6 trendy colours to match your style and enjoy a powerful, electrifying performance.

"


----------



## mbwilson111

ld100 said:


> https://en-us.sennheiser.com/earbuds-headphones-stereo-mx-365
> 
> "
> Overview
> ...



Yes that is the 365.  You had asked if the 375 is good. The 375 is the one I have and can recommend, and is the one that @palestofwhite mentioned.  Two different models.  I have never heard a 365 but maybe another user has.


----------



## seanc6441

ld100 said:


> https://en-us.sennheiser.com/earbuds-headphones-stereo-mx-365
> 
> "
> Overview
> ...


Well you heard it from Sennheiser boys and girls...Powerful AND electrifying!


----------



## seanc6441

I had both actually but it was so long ago I have no idea how good they are... I think the MX375 was the better though. I remember having a red/silver 365 and all black 375 in my school days ^^

Although not sure if it’s any contest for the chi fi budget buds now like emx500 or graphene.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 5, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> I had both actually but it was so long ago I have no idea how good they are... I think the MX375 was the better though. I remember having a red/silver 365 and all black 375 in my school days ^^
> 
> Although not sure if it’s any contest for the chi fi budget buds now like emx500 or graphene.



I find the MX375 to be an excellent all rounder.  When I have used it, it has stayed in my ears for hours and hours.  Comfortable as well.  I think mine was only £12 on Amazon uk

Edit:  just checked.  Mine was £13 but they are selling for £20 now.


----------



## toear

I have the 365. 

... It's OK .. Nothing spectacular after listening to other offerings like the seahf 64ohm. Relatively flat but a slight v. It does have a good amount of bass but overall not as clear as some of my budget chifi offerings. I do find them easy to listen to though....


----------



## mbwilson111

toear said:


> I do find them easy to listen to though....



That is what I find with the 375.  Non-fatiguing. I am trying some new iems tonight or I would dig them out for a listen.


----------



## chinmie

golov17 said:


> [QUOTE = "kurtextrem, post: 14284316, участник: 430768"]
> 
> .. we know this... Sunrise Dragon2 & Simphonio Dragon2+



the old dragon is good, but not very interesting for me. the 2+ is great though


----------



## rkw

doggiemom said:


> I have a doctorate in chemistry, and I’m calling shenanigans on this carbene thing.    Carbenes have unpaired electrons so are not stable.  They will react and form something else.  They are intermediates to make other stuff, there is no way the final driver will be made of carbenes.


Hope you would chime in as well on earbuds that claim to have graphene drivers. This exotic, difficult to manufacture material supposedly in $10 earbuds?


----------



## doggiemom (Jun 5, 2018)

Full disclosure time, since I got full of myself and stepped into this one...... my schooling was for physical chemistry, which is basically physics on an atomic and molecular level (read: no applicability to anything practical).    As part of graduate studies, you do have to take exams to prove some level of knowledge in different areas of chemistry.  The most relevant here would be inorganic chemistry....... I passed that exam by literally one point.  But hey, I passed.  


jant71 said:


> Perhaps they have Graphene and Carbon(another of the type that is not Graphene) diaphragm layers and are being cute with Carbenes


Yes, this definitely sounds like a marketing thing because graphene and nanomaterials are buzz words right now.  They surely have carbon in them...... as do you and I, and my dogs, and all plants and animals..... carbon is the building block of life!    Graphene is an allotrope of carbon, meaning that it is a bunch of carbon atoms that are connected to each other in a specific structure.  You've probably heard of bucky balls....... that is another allotrope of carbon, in which all the carbons are bound together in a form that looks like a soccer ball.  With graphene, all the carbons bind together to form hexagons, which are connected to other hexagons made of carbon, forming a thin layer that looks like a honey comb.  So strictly speaking, all these drivers contain carbon, but in order to say that the drivers are graphene or carbene, they should contain carbon atoms in specific structures. 


rkw said:


> Hope you would chime in as well on earbuds that claim to have graphene drivers. This exotic, difficult to manufacture material supposedly in $10 earbuds?


My understanding of the graphene drivers (which is largely based on info from this thread) is that whatever drivers they used are sprayed with graphene, so the graphene content is actually pretty low.  But I guess this is enough to advertise a driver as graphene.  In the case of "carbene," I think it is total BS because carbene is not stable at room temp - it will react to make something like ethylene, which is a gas, so by the time the earbuds reach you, it will already have wandered off.

Sorry for the lecture.  Thanks to anyone who stuck with me....... it is fun to pretend that all that schooling didn't go to waste.  

Edited to say:  I hope I am not being a snot or a drag with this chemistry stuff.  I was just talking to my husband about this (who is an organic chemist, so knows a lot more about this stuff that I do.....) and how my post would come across...... I just don't want someone spending their hard earned money thinking that they are getting a new driver material that will be different if that will not be the case.  With this carbene stuff, I think it really is the case of someone using a term that sounds high tech to sell market a product.  They may be great earbuds, but advertising them as carbene is deceptive.


----------



## mochill

They should be using carbyne as a diaphragm , it is twice the strength of graphene and lighter too


----------



## ld100

mbwilson111 said:


> Yes that is the 365.  You had asked if the 375 is good. The 375 is the one I have and can recommend, and is the one that @palestofwhite mentioned.  Two different models.  I have never heard a 365 but maybe another user has.



My mistake... I did not realize it is 365.


----------



## chaiyuta

Thanks Mrs. Doggiemom for sharing your profound chemistry knowledge, and Mr. mochill for pointing at its chemistry name might be typo between Carbene and Carbyne. With my limited high-school level of chemistry knowledge, I'd ever learnt chemistry bond difference only between diamond, charcoal carbon and graphite.

When you all have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. In the current earbuds market, there is only one 400 Ohm driver that is Toneking TO400 with graphene diaphragm advertised, Therefore this suspicious driver is probably the exact same TO400 driver!!!


----------



## mochill

chaiyuta said:


> Thanks Mrs. Doggiemom for sharing your profound chemistry knowledge, and Mr. mochill for pointing at its chemistry name might be typo between Carbene and Carbyne. With my limited high-school level of chemistry knowledge, I'd ever learnt chemistry bond difference only between diamond, charcoal carbon and graphite.
> 
> When you all have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. In the current earbuds market, there is only one 400 Ohm driver that is Toneking TO400 with graphene diaphragm advertised, Therefore this suspicious driver is probably the exact same TO400 driver!!!


Is the TO400 a coated graphene driver or pure graphene driver


----------



## chaiyuta (Jun 5, 2018)

You could read about Dynamic Driver component parts at Boutiquebuds facebook fanpage via English translation. Normally earbuds diaphragm is made of plastic material such as PET, then it is coated by metal material such as titanium, beryllium, bio-cellulose, dlc, or graphene etc. The other parts likes basement, ring, etc (except voice coil) have never been coated by anything.


----------



## redkingjoe

chaiyuta said:


> Sorry, I tried Sony MDR e272 less than 5 minutes (cause there are too many things during this meeting), and I did not try it with oldy or vintage sources. I tried it with DX200 AMP1, and I was not impressed at all. Perhaps It could be shined once it get a perfect matching couple likes AIWA D9 + Panasonic SL-J905 CD player do. Even AIWA D9 together with my DX200 sound becomes mediocre as if I am falling down from 7th floor of heaven (with that Panasonic player) to earth level.
> 
> Consider the MSRP of Nordost Heimdall 2 (2m. for HD800) is around 1,000$. Then cut all connectors out for the sake of making this Prakarn Niranam earbuds version. The price of that 4.4 mm. Nideon plug is around 90$. The estimated price of this earbuds might be not less than 1,090$. However, if you could get Nordost Heimdall 2 cable second-hand price. Its price should be more cost down.



Thank you for your kind reply!
1 actually, the Sony 272 is only a decent model in the past. Not a TOTL.

2 the AIWA D9 was famous but might not be within the top 5 vintage model.

3 the Panasonic SL-905 was not within the top 10 discman.

4 If Prakam wanna make a model with Nordost, I believe they should order in bulk( ie without all connectors). For bulk purchase (B to B], there should be a discount of at least 35%! 

Thanks for all your kind update.


----------



## redkingjoe

chaiyuta said:


> Thanks Mrs. Doggiemom for sharing your profound chemistry knowledge, and Mr. mochill for pointing at its chemistry name might be typo between Carbene and Carbyne. With my limited high-school level of chemistry knowledge, I'd ever learnt chemistry bond difference only between diamond, charcoal carbon and graphite.
> 
> When you all have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. In the current earbuds market, there is only one 400 Ohm driver that is Toneking TO400 with graphene diaphragm advertised, Therefore this suspicious driver is probably the exact same TO400 driver!!!



I am very lucky to have one earbuds with diamond coated diaphragm( Sony mdre484)and another one with bio cellulite(sony888). Although they are very old(15-20 years old)they still sound exceptionally great when comparing to Shozy BK and Shozy Bk Poseidon.

So I keep looking for a modern earbuds with diamond coating or bio cellulite! Than I would fit it with Nordost cable.


----------



## dwil

I'm looking to buy a couple pairs of mmcx earbuds, does anyone have any recommendations? I'm looking for something flat, with maybe a slight V shape.


----------



## snip3r77

mochill said:


> Is the TO400 a coated graphene driver or pure graphene driver


I doubt there is any pure graphene


----------



## chaiyuta

@redkingjoe : 

Nordost : I just asked Prakarn Owner, he said that he bought the second-hand nordost cable to make his own show-case earbuds. He informed that even if bulk purchase is discounted but it is still expensive and it neeed to order with the number of many cables (MOQ?).

Disc Player : May I know what is the top5? Is there any present new model available to buy? 

DLC coated diaphragm : MoonDrop Kanas Pro (IEM) is released after Liebesleid (earbuds). The interesting point is that Kanas Pro utilizes Daimond-Like-Carbon diaphragm. Probably, the next earbuds model might start utilizing DLC diaphragm. Let's crossed finger.


----------



## 40760

Replacement MK3 and PK32 has reached the local post... should be receiving them the next few days (hopefully tomorrow)...


----------



## handwander

Which one 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...d-Plug-Earplugs-Headset-Free/32801437048.html
or
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32831045644.html


----------



## 40760

handwander said:


> Which one



*DQSM Z&W Panda PK2s*


----------



## Carrow

palestofwhite said:


> *DQSM Z&W Panda PK2s*



Backed! Got mine from @seanc6441 last week and I'm quite fond of them


----------



## handwander

palestofwhite said:


> *DQSM Z&W Panda PK2s*





Carrow said:


> Backed! Got mine from @seanc6441 last week and I'm quite fond of them


Alright then. 

For the price and hype it's hard to not get the Willsounds instead, but I don't own anything with a PK style shell yet so looking to try it.


----------



## HungryPanda

I second the Panda pk2 as well


----------



## Carrow

HungryPanda said:


> I second the Panda pk2 as well



HungryPanda PK2, you mean


----------



## HungryPanda

I am actually listening to them today


----------



## jogawag (Aug 15, 2018)

handwander said:


> Which one


You should choose *HCK Diy PK2*.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801437048.html

Because the HCK Diy PK2 is using a driver of copy of Docomo Earbuds.
Docomo Earbuds is original design of Yuin PK and Shozy's shell.
Docomo Earbuds was attached to Japanese Docomo mobile phone (which was being sold until 2006), and was made as OEM by a Chinese company.
And the company is now making copies of the Docomo Earbuds driver for HCK Diy PK2.
Moreover, the "black version 1" of HCK Diy PK2 was the NOS itself of Docomo Earbuds, but it is already sold out...
Two upper are what I heard from HCK master Mr. Jim.

The sound quality of Docomo Earbuds is very nice, ClieOS admits that it is almost the same sound quality as Shozy Cygnus. (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1389#post-13549698)
I bought it for $ 6 at flea market and am using it, it is quite attractive sound quality.
(However, since this plug of Earbuds is 3.5 mm 4 poles, if you are using Hifiman or OPPO's DAP you can listen balanced as it is, but you will need an adapter to listen on other DAP ...)

Finally, Big News!
The "black version 1"(= Docomo Earbuds) of HCK Diy PK2 is remained  in Amazon in the United States.
This product includes adapter cable to listen to normal DAP.
https://www.amazon.com/Hoared-Earphone-Earplugs-Headset-Version/dp/B074KXBV6X

---[Shozy Cygnus vs DoCoMo] Comparative FR graph from Russia(player.ru)---  "It shows almost the same value up to 20 kHz."




Edit:
In above amazon link, in fact only "black version 4" and "black version 5" were sold ...


----------



## handwander

jogawag said:


> You should choose *HCK Diy PK2*.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801437048.html
> 
> Because the HCK Diy PK2 is using a driver of a Chinese company making copies of the driver of Earbuds (so-called Docomo Earbuds) attached to Docomo mobile phone (which was being sold until 2007).
> ...


You're that 1 amazon seller aren't you  

Kidding but I already ordered the Pandas lol. Interesting story about the shell history though. Was wondering who came up with them.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 6, 2018)

handwander said:


> You're that 1 amazon seller aren't you
> 
> Kidding but I already ordered the Pandas lol. Interesting story about the shell history though. Was wondering who came up with them.


Those who believe will be saved.
However,,,
It was disappointing.
I have Pandas too...but.


----------



## j4100

HungryPanda said:


> I second the Panda pk2 as well



Thirded. I use mine most nights. I have the white shell version and love that cable. Got mine used via another Head-Fi'er. Pleased I got it.


----------



## waynes world

doggiemom said:


> Edited to say:  I hope I am not being a snot or a drag with this chemistry stuff.  I was just talking to my husband about this (who is an organic chemist, so knows a lot more about this stuff that I do.....) and how my post would come across.....



Nope, it was interesting and easy to read & understand. If you want "eye glazing over" reads, go the Radsone ES100 thread and looks for the debates an the various bluetooth codecs. Actually, don't lol!


----------



## chamber

jogawag said:


> You should choose *HCK Diy PK2*.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801437048.html
> 
> Because the HCK Diy PK2 is using a driver of copy of Docomo Earbuds.



There are three NICEHCK DIY PK2 versions for sale on that page:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...d-Plug-Earplugs-Headset-Free/32801437048.html

1) Black version 3
2) Black version 4 (which is actually all white)
3) Black version 5

Is there a technical difference between version 3 and version 4, other than the color? Is one superior or an updated version?

Version 4 is a dollar more and even though it's called "black version 4" it's color is white. Typo on NICEHCK's part?


----------



## jogawag

chamber said:


> There are three NICEHCK DIY PK2 versions for sale on that page:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...d-Plug-Earplugs-Headset-Free/32801437048.html
> 
> 1) Black version 3
> ...



Since I am a mere customer of HCK, I do not know the details.
I hear that the driver of black version 1, 2, 3 are different.
And I think that parhaps the the driver of black version 3, 4, 5 are same, and only color of shells or cables are different.
Please listen to HCK's Jim during price negotiation for details and certainty.


----------



## ShabtabQ (Jun 6, 2018)

Is the Panda Pk2 and NiceHCK DIY pk2 the same? If not then how do they compare, and how do they compare to Willsound Pk32, the problem with me is that ordering from NiceHCK here in india takes around $8 just for delivery so I could get a willsound for more or less the same price, I'm very much interested in the Yuin style earbud but so confused on what to do? Help please....


----------



## ShabtabQ

HungryPanda said:


> I second the Panda pk2 as well


Second to?


(Sorry for multiple post)


----------



## mbwilson111

ShabtabQ said:


> Second to?
> 
> 
> (Sorry for multiple post)



To "second"  something  means you agree with or support what the other person just said. 
If someone says something and you agree you could say 'I'll second that.' 

Found on Yahoo questions:
It comes from the practice of 'seconding' after someone has made a motion in a meeting or after someone is nominated for a prize or political office. If there is no 'second' to the motion or nomination, then the motion or nomination fails and someone must make another motion or nomination.


----------



## ShabtabQ (Jun 6, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> To "second"  something  means you agree with or support what the other person just said.
> If someone says something and you agree you could say 'I'll second that.'
> 
> Found on Yahoo questions:
> It comes from the practice of 'seconding' after someone has made a motion in a meeting or after someone is nominated for a prize or political office. If there is no 'second' to the motion or nomination, then the motion or nomination fails and someone must make another motion or nomination.




I'm so sorry for that, I got it, and thank you ma'am..


----------



## mbwilson111

ShabtabQ said:


> I'm so sorry for that, I got it, and thank you sir...



it is not something that would be familiar in every part of the world.  

BTW,  I am not a "sir"


----------



## ShabtabQ

mbwilson111 said:


> it is not something that would be familiar in every part of the world.
> 
> BTW,  I am not a "sir"



Ooppps, I was eventually late in correcting that and I'm sorry again.


----------



## chamber

jogawag said:


> Since I am a mere customer of HCK, I do not know the details.
> I hear that the driver of black version 1, 2, 3 are different.
> And I think that parhaps the the driver of black version 3, 4, 5 are same, and only color of shells or cables are different.
> Please listen to HCK's Jim during price negotiation for details and certainty.



Thanks. Perhaps it's fair to assume 3 and 4 are the same since the product description doesn't distinguish between them on a technical basis. I contacted NICEHCK yesterday to clarify if there's a difference, but haven't heard back from them. If they reply, I'll post their response.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 6, 2018)

ShabtabQ said:


> Is the Panda Pk2 and NiceHCK DIY pk2 the same? If not then how do they compare, and how do they compare to Willsound Pk32, the problem with me is that ordering from NiceHCK here in india takes around $8 just for delivery so I could get a willsound for more or less the same price, I'm very much interested in the Yuin style earbud but so confused on what to do? Help please....


I thinkI posted a comparison of them awhile ago. I found the panda did improve slighty over time, to be a fairly balanced but warm and smooth sound.

Good for relaxing listening of pop, mellow acoustic genres. It is slighty mid centric overall, most of it's qualities reside in the vocals region, quite smooth, full bodied and fairly detailed.

Not for anyone looking for sub bass and treble quantity though. Mid bass is indeed punchy and well rounded, but not having the deepest extension into sub bass.


----------



## ShabtabQ

seanc6441 said:


> I thinkI posted a comparison of them awhile ago. I found the panda did improve slighty over time, to be a fairly balanced but warm and smooth sound.
> 
> Good for relaxing listening of pop, mellow acoustic genres. It is slighty mid centric overall, most of it's qualities reside in the vocals region, quite smooth, full bodied and fairly detailed.
> 
> Not for anyone looking for sub bass and treble quantity though. Mid bass is indeed punchy and well rounded, but not having the deepest extension into sub bass.



I guess I'll just wait for you to receive your willsounds now.


----------



## waynes world

ShabtabQ said:


> I guess I'll just wait for you to receive your willsounds now.



The Willsounds will be Sean's favorite buds if all time


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Nope, it was interesting and easy to read & understand. If you want "eye glazing over" reads, go the Radsone ES100 thread and looks for the debates an the various bluetooth codecs. Actually, don't lol!



And don't forget the balanced cable drama over there.. Classic


----------



## chinmie

Finally arrived. OOTB it has a more V shaped, recessed mids sound compared to it's older version. Also a bit harsher in sound. Might need a little bit of playtime to loosen up the sound.


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> Finally arrived. OOTB it has a more V shaped, recessed mids sound compared to it's older version. Also a bit harsher in sound. Might need a little bit of playtime to loosen up the sound.



I felt somewhat the same way when I first got them. But not any more, so playtime is good. Also a bit of a bass boost does the trick for me.


----------



## snip3r77

chinmie said:


> Finally arrived. OOTB it has a more V shaped, recessed mids sound compared to it's older version. Also a bit harsher in sound. Might need a little bit of playtime to loosen up the sound.


I have the pt15 bass is punchy, no bloat , very good mids


----------



## snip3r77

chinmie said:


> And don't forget the balanced cable drama over there.. Classic


Mk1 vs mk3 is it a side grade ? If it's very similar I'd skip this


----------



## chinmie

snip3r77 said:


> Mk1 vs mk3 is it a side grade ? If it's very similar I'd skip this



On sound quality, yes they are side grade, although there are things that might not be replicated exactly with eq between them. If you like a more V shaped  and a but more energetic sound you could buy the MK2, but otherwise you could skip it


----------



## chaiyuta

@handwander or @RobinFood  : I need your help~ B&O Play White (Wireless Earbuds) will be released at e-earphone on 14/06/2018. Could you go to trail listening it and share your impression here?


----------



## handwander

Sure. Though not on that day I'm taking a mini Taiwan trip. 

I'm also useless at describing audio gear so expect not much more than "was good" or "meh"


----------



## 40760 (Jun 7, 2018)

Just gotten my MK3 back and the new PK32...

Replacement MK3 is great and using it now...

Also really liked how the PK32 sounded when I plugged in it but realised the right side was softer and now the right driver has totally stopped working altogether...

Guess I'm not really lucky again and will have to see what Rholupat or Willy can do about it... 

Edit: It was the right driver that failed instead of left.


----------



## subwoof3r

palestofwhite said:


> Just gotten my MK3 back and the new PK32...
> 
> Replacement MK3 is great and using it now...
> 
> ...


Oh no.. you unlucky 
Really counted on another PK32 new fresh impression, hehe
From your working beginning on it, how was your quick feeling on bass domain ?

_(Can't wait to receive my PK32 replacement pair)_


----------



## 40760 (Jun 7, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> Oh no.. you unlucky
> Really counted on another PK32 new fresh impression, hehe
> From your working beginning on it, how was your quick feeling on bass domain ?
> 
> _(Can't wait to receive my PK32 replacement pair)_



On first listen to the PK32, bass was lesser than MK2 but definitely there. They sound really different enough from the MK series, whereas the MK2 and 3 share the same sound signature.
MK2 comes off as more clinical and MK3 being warmer, but both have that "balanced" sound.
Maybe mine is not accurate to compare or even it might have the same problem as yours just that I'm unaware of it...

Also, something to note was that glue marks were also quite prominent on the shells of my PK32 and that the right driver cover had some white stains (around the tiny holes where the sound comes out). Not sure if they're related to the failure though. I have feeling the PK32 are harder for Willy to work with because of the smaller shell, hence more prone to QC issues?

Either way, Willy has assured me that my unit will be replaced and I won't be dealing with Rholupat from here on...


----------



## chinmie

palestofwhite said:


> On first listen to the PK32, bass was lesser than MK2 but definitely there. They sound really different enough from the MK series, whereas the MK2 and 3 share the same sound signature.
> MK2 comes off as more clinical and MK3 being warmer, but both have that "balanced" sound.
> 
> Also, something to note was that glue marks were also quite prominent on the shells of my PK32 and that the right driver cover had some white stains (around the tiny holes where the sound comes out). Not sure if they're related to the failure though. I have feeling the PK32 are harder for Willy to work with because of the smaller shell, hence more prone to QC issues?
> ...



darn it.. twice in a row.. i hope you got the third one working properly. glad to hear that willy himself took the on hand solution for this


----------



## 40760

chinmie said:


> darn it.. twice in a row.. i hope you got the third one working properly. glad to hear that willy himself took the on hand solution for this



Guess I'm just unlucky these days! The first one was the MK3 with an incomplete Y-Splitter. That was resolved today with a replacement unit, and I'm now totally happy with it.

The PK32 is outright faulty, though there's no physical damage on the earbuds, besides arriving in a squashed up package. I can't say for sure if they're indeed damaged from transit (lucky the MK3 survived), but they were poorly packed on Rholupat's part. It's just a paper box on top of the zippered case without any padding or bubble wrap. Even a small cheap brown cardboard box will do better. Anyways my MK2 arrived that way too, but lucky those turned out fine too.

Anyway it's nice of Willy to take things over to deal with the man himself directly. I still have a MK1 coming directly from Willy that should arrive sometime next week. Keeping my fingers crossed!


----------



## subwoof3r

palestofwhite said:


> Also, something to note was that glue marks were also quite prominent on the shells of my PK32 and that the right driver cover had some white stains (around the tiny holes where the sound comes out). Not sure if they're related to the failure though. I have feeling the PK32 are harder for Willy to work with because of the smaller shell, hence more prone to QC issues?


My actual PK32 pair seems to suffer a bit the same, it has a little scratch on the grid of the left shell and the right pair is not perfectly white but has some kind of yellow glue in some spots. Also, I remarked some white glue on the left grid from shell also.
I found MK2 and MK1 was much attentioned about bulding quality, but nothing to really worry anyway.


----------



## 40760 (Jun 7, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> My actual PK32 pair seems to suffer a bit the same, it has a little scratch on the grid of the left shell and the right pair is not perfectly white but has some kind of yellow glue in some spots. Also, I remarked some white glue on the left grid from shell also.
> I found MK2 and MK1 was much attentioned about bulding quality, but nothing to really worry anyway.



That's interesting to note! Cause mine does have some glue marks all over the shell as well... the MK series were definitely better made and cleaner...
Seems like more QC is needed for the PK32...

I couldn't resist and took them out to try and see if the problem persists. Now it appears that the right channel is intermittently working again, but the bass is gone!
I think I can see where you're coming from at this point... I don't even know for sure if it's the drivers or plug termination that's faulty... Our sets are definitely defective!

EDIT: They sound muffled and as though the Lows were EQed off, plus a lot softer than the MK3.They're definitely heading back to Willy by tomorrow.

EDIT 2: Left them to burn in, hoping for a miracle. Instead, both drivers decided not to work altogether.

EDIT 3: Back to only right side dead. Sound is still bad come front left driver. Just packed it up to be shipped off tomorrow. No more messing around with them.


----------



## RobinFood

chaiyuta said:


> @handwander or @RobinFood  : I need your help~ B&O Play White (Wireless Earbuds) will be released at e-earphone on 14/06/2018. Could you go to trail listening it and share your impression here?



Sure, I can go just about any Saturday, so I could try it out on the 15th.
I will be using it with my m0.
What exactly are you looking for? What kind of music do you want me to test out on it?


----------



## chaiyuta

Thanks Mr. RobinFood. there is no specific. Just try whatever you always do. Either you like or dislike, Fitting issue, etc. However if you could try it with fripSide, Claris, or JOJO songs might be plus.


----------



## subwoof3r

palestofwhite said:


> EDIT 3: Back to only right side dead. Sound is still bad come front left driver. Just packed it up to be shipped off tomorrow. No more messing around with them.


Did you tried cleaning the plug ? sometimes it can help.
I tried to plug very slowly jack to my source to see if there is any difference and.. not  (I heard left driver on, then the second, and them both which is the normal behaviour when you plug classic 3,5mm plug).
When the left driver worked I gave a quick listen and it sounded the same as fully plugged, so looks like we have different problems, but the fact you did didn't had bass like me is quite interesting.
Anyway, I will wait for my PK32 replacement too and see. We stay tuned


----------



## 40760

subwoof3r said:


> Did you tried cleaning the plug ? sometimes it can help.
> I tried to plug very slowly jack to my source to see if there is any difference and.. not  (I heard left driver on, then the second, and them both which is the normal behaviour when you plug classic 3,5mm plug).
> When the left driver worked I gave a quick listen and it sounded the same as fully plugged, so looks like we have different problems, but the fact you did didn't had bass like me is quite interesting.
> Anyway, I will wait for my PK32 replacement too and see. We stay tuned



Tried cleaning the jack with a lint free cloth and it's still the same. I'm sure it's not a contact issue as I've tried both HP out of my Chord Mojo and also 2 different iPhone 3.5mm to lightning adapters. It's definitely something internal. The lack of bass part is the most obvious as compared to the first listen, followed by channel imbalance and eventual cutting off in sound.

The good thing about my setup is the Chord Mojo's dual HP out which I can AB both the PK32 and MK3 at the same time. As of now the PK32's right driver is permanently dead, and the left is playing but only ever so softly.

Can't wait for Willy to return from his holidays and send out the replacement as I really feel the PK32 has good potential!


----------



## haiku

The beautiful Bel Audio Ampas Pandawa Nganu


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> On sound quality, yes they are side grade, although there are things that might not be replicated exactly with eq between them. If you like a more V shaped  and a but more energetic sound you could buy the MK2, but otherwise you could skip it *would be insane! *



Fixed that for you


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Fixed that for you



yes, at that price it's easy and logical to go all out pokemon on the willsounds


----------



## waynes world (Jun 7, 2018)

chinmie said:


> yes, at that price it's easy and logical to go all out pokemon on the willsounds



"All out pokemon" - I like that!

I just love the MK2 timbre, fullness and musicality. And even though they might be v-shaped to some degree, I still love their mids and how uncongested and open they sound. All out pokemon indeed!

edit: I say the above without having heard any high end earbuds except for Zen 1 & 2, so that is to be factored in to my all out pokemoning. But, at the moment, I have no desire to get any other high enders


----------



## 40760

waynes world said:


> I say the above without having heard any high end earbuds except for Zen 1 & 2, so that is to be factored in to my all out pokemoning.



How would you rate the Zen 2.0 to the MK2?

I have the Asura 2.0s which I feel the MK2 to be superior, and it being of a way lower impedance (150 vs 32ohms) is definitely a plus for me as well...


----------



## waynes world

palestofwhite said:


> How would you rate the Zen 2.0 to the MK2?
> 
> I have the Asura 2.0s which I feel the MK2 to be superior, and it being of a way lower impedance (150 vs 32ohms) is definitely a plus for me as well...



I will get back to you on that.


----------



## snip3r77

palestofwhite said:


> How would you rate the Zen 2.0 to the MK2?
> 
> I have the Asura 2.0s which I feel the MK2 to be superior, and it being of a way lower impedance (150 vs 32ohms) is definitely a plus for me as well...



Which MK2 is it?


----------



## 40760

snip3r77 said:


> Which MK2 is it?



Willsound MK2...


----------



## j4100

Any chance one  of you fine earbud enthusiasts might be able to help out with my DAP question over here?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dap-with-pictorial-album-sleeve-index-not-ipod.881511/

On topic, I'm getting tempted with Wild Lee's blue Monk Lite. Might be tricky to get a hold of since it's a limited edition and only available for a few weeks.


----------



## ld100

Can someone help me the Shozy clones that are around. i read few times that there are same shell buds on Ebay that have a very similar sound under 30$. I can't find that info on HeadFi... Any help will be appreciated.


----------



## snip3r77

palestofwhite said:


> Willsound MK2...



LOL Zen 2.0 is at least $150


----------



## seanc6441

ld100 said:


> Can someone help me the Shozy clones that are around. i read few times that there are same shell buds on Ebay that have a very similar sound under 30$. I can't find that info on HeadFi... Any help will be appreciated.


Shozy Cygnus or BK? Because I consider them in different leagues.

Buds like DIY PK2, PK2 Panda sound more equivalent to Cygnus maybe. I consider the BK a level above these buds. That’s my impression anyway. Until I get to hear the Willsound PK32


----------



## seanc6441

snip3r77 said:


> LOL Zen 2.0 is at least $150


Chinmie has said he prefers the MK2 over K’s Samsara which was roughly $130-150 too right?

Maybe it’s a TOTL killer ^^


----------



## chamber (Jun 7, 2018)

jogawag said:


> I hear that the driver of black version 1, 2, 3 are different.
> And I think that parhaps the the driver of black version 3, 4, 5 are same, and only color of shells or cables are different.





chamber said:


> Thanks. Perhaps it's fair to assume 3 and 4 are the same since the product description doesn't distinguish between them on a technical basis. I contacted NICEHCK yesterday to clarify if there's a difference, but haven't heard back from them. If they reply, I'll post their response.



@jogawag, you were correct. Jim at NiceHCK responded that DIY PK2 version 3 and version 4 have the same cable, but different color shells. So, they're aesthetically different, but technically the same.


----------



## chinmie

palestofwhite said:


> How would you rate the Zen 2.0 to the MK2?
> 
> I have the Asura 2.0s which I feel the MK2 to be superior, and it being of a way lower impedance (150 vs 32ohms) is definitely a plus for me as well...





snip3r77 said:


> LOL Zen 2.0 is at least $150



i have the mk2 and Zen 2, also Asura 1. Zen 2 and MK2 has a very different sound signature that you can't really compare them apple to apple. the Zen 1 (from memory) might be closer to MK2. 
i like them both for different songs. Zen 2 is mid centric and warm sounding. MK2 is more V shaped with excellent subbass and more revealing treble than the Zen 2. 
also any kind of foams (even the thinnest) with the Zen 2 will muffle the sound. only use them with no foams



seanc6441 said:


> Chinmie has said he prefers the MK2 over K’s Samsara which was roughly $130-150 too right?
> 
> Maybe it’s a TOTL killer ^^



i still think so


----------



## rkw

seanc6441 said:


> Maybe it’s a TOTL killer ^^


It could be $200 and the ad will still say "Kill Monk+"


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> i have the mk2 and Zen 2, also Asura 1. Zen 2 and MK2 has a very different sound signature that you can't really compare them apple to apple. the *Zen 1 (from memory) might be closer to MK2*.



Yup.



> i like them both for different songs. Zen 2 is mid centric and warm sounding. MK2 is more V shaped with excellent subbass and more revealing treble than the Zen 2.
> also any kind of foams (even the thinnest) with the Zen 2 will muffle the sound. only use them with no foams



Yup on all again. I find it challenging to ever disagree with you chinmie!


----------



## seanc6441

rkw said:


> It could be $200 and the ad will still say "Kill Monk+"


True but these are impressions not promotional statements 

I don't think anyone in their right minds believes what the seller on aliexpress say about the earbuds like "kills x earbud, better than y earbud". Which is usually nonsense talk.

I certainly don't anyway


----------



## ld100

snip3r77 said:


> I have the pt15 bass is punchy, no bloat , very good mids



Ones that I have a sharp to the point that they are intolerable. I might have a defective set, but they are totally crap.


----------



## waynes world (Jun 7, 2018)

ld100 said:


> Ones that I have a sharp to the point that they are intolerable. I might have a defective set, but they are totally crap.



Assuming you have some hours on them, then yes, they may be defective, or else you are very sensitive to highs. I am somewhat sensitive, and I felt that they were a bit bright for me when I first got them, but they don't cross any lines now (and when I add some bass, they sound quite good).

Btw, I am using medium to thick foams, so that probably helps. Also, have you tried them on various sources?


----------



## seanc6441

ld100 said:


> Ones that I have a sharp to the point that they are intolerable. I might have a defective set, but they are totally crap.


Mine have ‘treble’ but I don’t think I’m sensitive to it and it’s less sharp than the DIY Grapene, another graphene bud I do consider very bright before I modded it.

Although I’m not getting this very punchy bass (it’s a little bass shy to me) and the mids to me are a little thin overall.

PT15 is awesome for the price, but not without flaws (then again most buds aren’t either).


----------



## toear

My PT15s are pretty mid-high forward... bass is there, but I agree, definitely shy. The airiness is great, but I wish I could figure out how to tame the mid-highs. I'm afraid to crack them open because of the mmcx. I have opened up almost all of my emx500 shell buds and tweaked them to my liking, but not this one... yet.


----------



## seanc6441

toear said:


> My PT15s are pretty mid-high forward... bass is there, but I agree, definitely shy. The airiness is great, but I wish I could figure out how to tame the mid-highs. I'm afraid to crack them open because of the mmcx. I have opened up almost all of my emx500 shell buds and tweaked them to my liking, but not this one... yet.


may I ask how you are tuning them inside the shell? Any standard methods you’re using? Sounds interesting.


----------



## HungryPanda

oh my I just realized I have been neglecting my earbuds, goddam headphones and blue-tooth thingies


----------



## Carrow

My Ultimate Brokee set are in the country ahhhhh

could even be here tomorrow!!

much hype


----------



## handwander

Should I be double foaming the smaller monk lite shells? Single foams on them are pretty loose.


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> oh my I just realized I have been neglecting my earbuds, goddam headphones and blue-tooth thingies


It's not neglect if it takes a round year to get from A-Z in your collection


----------



## seanc6441

handwander said:


> Should I be double foaming the smaller monk lite shells? Single foams on them are pretty loose.


Do you have the aliexpress thin foams? They are pretty small and might stay on when others don't.


----------



## handwander

seanc6441 said:


> Do you have the aliexpress thin foams? They are pretty small and might stay on when others don't.


Just the ones that came with the monks + ones that came with emx500s but those might be bigger. Anyway not a huge deal, they stay on they just slide around a bit when putting them in my ear.

Ordered these with the pk pandas the other day so maybe they'll work a bit better
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/20p...rpads-Covers-Earcaps-MP3-MP4/32671911259.html


----------



## snip3r77

ld100 said:


> Ones that I have a sharp to the point that they are intolerable. I might have a defective set, but they are totally crap.



Take note mine is the latest version


----------



## ld100

snip3r77 said:


> Take note mine is the latest version



Mine is the original one. I got them just when they came out. Absolute garbage. I pulled them out today just to make sure. Just horrible.


----------



## toear (Jun 8, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> may I ask how you are tuning them inside the shell? Any standard methods you’re using? Sounds interesting.


Sure...

I am working with the characteristics of the earphone. I test the effects of plugging certain vents to see what kind of effect it has on the sound, then start playing with that. When it gets to the inside I take a look to see what kind of foams are present inside. I also experiment with stuffing the cavity with fiber (I picked this up from speaker building). Depending on the configuration sometimes the stuffing in a speaker can make the volume of the box seem bigger than it is. I have found that it can open up the soundstage, tame mid-highs, with too much stuffing reduce bass... If I don't like a particular aspect of the sound signature I try to pinpoint the corresponding physical element that can affect it, then play from there. Each pair is different in effect. With my Graphenes from Nicehck I couldn't stand the big mid hump... it was muddy and annoying. I gave up on them for a while then took another stab. Right now I have the two larger of the 5 vents on each shell plugged and have settled on think full foams. I also drilled a small hole in the middle of the front face to open up the highs. The result is something that is much more balanced. It doesn't have the sub bass extension my Seahf 64 or HE 150 has (slight L-shaped sound sig), but the forward low-mids/mids have been recessed nicely. Mid/low bass is nice and tight (the muddiness is mostly gone). There is a bit more high-end sparkle (I may try to open the holes a bit more) and overall the buds are now quite enjoyable. The detail and separation of the Graphenes, but with a more neutral balance between low-mid-high/tone that I like. When working this way it is about juggling balance and compromise.

On other pairs, I've experimented with drilling small holes to extend bass (kind of like ported subs) with some success (but when you port my understanding is you lose accuracy).

I'm trying to 'make-do' with the driver that is provided. Ideally, you find a driver with certain characteristics that you desire and build/tune the enclosure to match/bring out the best qualities of the driver... not the other way around (which is kind of what I'm doing)... in my limited experience.

edit - incidentally i found the extra hole in the center of the front cover for the Graphenes rolled the treble a bit... go figure. Plugged it back up and we are good 8)


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Mine have ‘treble’ but I don’t think I’m sensitive to it and it’s less sharp than the DIY Grapene, another graphene bud I do consider very bright before I modded it.



I find the graphene to be less sharp than the pt15's. But, we've always heard them differently.


----------



## 40760

Just mailed out the faulty PK32 for replacement... Now the wait begins...


----------



## seanc6441

toear said:


> Sure...
> 
> I am working with the characteristics of the earphone. I test the effects of plugging certain vents to see what kind of effect it has on the sound, then start playing with that. When it gets to the inside I take a look to see what kind of foams are present inside. I also experiment with stuffing the cavity with fiber (I picked this up from speaker building). Depending on the configuration sometimes the stuffing in a speaker can make the volume of the box seem bigger than it is. I have found that it can open up the soundstage, tame mid-highs, with too much stuffing reduce bass... If I don't like a particular aspect of the sound signature I try to pinpoint the corresponding physical element that can affect it, then play from there. Each pair is different in effect. With my Graphenes from Nicehck I couldn't stand the big mid hump... it was muddy and annoying. I gave up on them for a while then took another stab. Right now I have the two larger of the 5 vents on each shell plugged and have settled on think full foams. I also drilled a small hole in the middle of the front face to open up the highs. The result is something that is much more balanced. It doesn't have the sub bass extension my Seahf 64 or HE 150 has (slight L-shaped sound sig), but the forward low-mids/mids have been recessed nicely. Mid/low bass is nice and tight (the muddiness is mostly gone). There is a bit more high-end sparkle (I may try to open the holes a bit more) and overall the buds are now quite enjoyable. The detail and separation of the Graphenes, but with a more neutral balance between low-mid-high/tone that I like. When working this way it is about juggling balance and compromise.
> 
> ...


That’s quite interesting and in my also limited diying I came to some similar conclusions. Especially with venting, too much of a change can result in a much more sloppy imaging and unfocused presentation. I tried filling the pk2 shell with loose cotton but the bass punch is lost, but it’s amazing how much more spacious the soundstage can get with the trick of filling a hollow shell (similar theory to the trick used in headphones I guess) so it could be useful for very bassy earbuds.

It’s funny we both did the same thing with our graphenes! I also put venting in the centre which seemed to control the bass much better and balance the sound. Although I’ve yet to try blocking the back ports, might test that out too!


----------



## toear (Jun 8, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> That’s quite interesting and in my also limited diying I came to some similar conclusions. Especially with venting, too much of a change can result in a much more sloppy imaging and unfocused presentation. I tried filling the pk2 shell with loose cotton but the bass punch is lost, but it’s amazing how much more spacious the soundstage can get with the trick of filling a hollow shell (similar theory to the trick used in headphones I guess) so it could be useful for very bassy earbuds.
> 
> It’s funny we both did the same thing with our graphenes! I also put venting in the centre which seemed to control the bass much better and balance the sound. Although I’ve yet to try blocking the back ports, might test that out too!



Incidentally, I went back and plugged the center hole in my Graphene as I found the highs got a bit muddy/rolled. Now it is clear again. Perhaps just working with the ports in the back is enough...

I also put a hole in the center of my diy pk1 shell and that definitely opened up the highs, however, regardless of what I have tried I cannot seem to 'add' bass. (I really come to realise that I like 'full range' earphones/drivers. At least I can roll off bass. The opposite seems much more challenging. (If you're looking for a cheap pair to mess with the Seahf 64s are awesome! They are definitely bass extended and SUB'd! Was pretty easy to pull it in a bit and balance it with the nice relaxed mids-highs. Essentially slightly v-shaped with clarity and sparkle and the ability to reach deep.))


----------



## seanc6441

toear said:


> Incidentally, I went back and plugged the center hole as I found the highs got a bit muddy/rolled. Now it is clear again. Perhaps just working with the ports in the back is enough...


I used 3 tiny vents in the front, no bigger than the other vents in the front grille, didn't notice any degradation of the highs but ill test it later with some tape to block it.


----------



## toear

seanc6441 said:


> I used 3 tiny vents in the front, no bigger than the other vents in the front grille, didn't notice any degradation of the highs but ill test it later with some tape to block it.


hmmm... cool! keep us posted!


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 8, 2018)

toear said:


> hmmm... cool! keep us posted!


think i posted a pic lately of it but I’ll post it again later, it removes the bloated mid bass allowing me to use thick foams on the graphene without muddying the sound with excessive bass. That way I can smooth the treble and upper mids enough and have a more balanced sound.

Still not my favourite earbud, but a definite improvement over my stock graphene.


----------



## waynes world

toear said:


> With my Graphenes from Nicehck I couldn't stand the big mid hump... it was muddy and annoying. I gave up on them for a while then took another stab. Right now I have the two larger of the 5 vents on each shell plugged and have settled on think full foams. I also drilled a small hole in the middle of the front face to open up the highs. The result is something that is much more balanced. It doesn't have the sub bass extension my Seahf 64 or HE 150 has (slight L-shaped sound sig), but the forward low-mids/mids have been recessed nicely. Mid/low bass is nice and tight (the muddiness is mostly gone). There is a bit more high-end sparkle (I may try to open the holes a bit more) and overall the buds are now quite enjoyable. The detail and separation of the Graphenes, but with a more neutral balance between low-mid-high/tone that I like. When working this way it is about juggling balance and compromise.





toear said:


> Incidentally, I went back and plugged the center hole in my Graphene as I found the highs got a bit muddy/rolled. Now it is clear again. Perhaps just working with the ports in the back is enough...



Are you talking about the new $16 version or the old $29 version? I suspect you have the new $16 version, because the characteristics you are speaking of don't apply to the old $29 version imo.



seanc6441 said:


> It’s funny we both did the same thing with our graphenes! I also put venting in the centre which seemed to control the bass much better and balance the sound. Although I’ve yet to try blocking the back ports, might test that out too!



I'm pretty sure that you have the old $29 version.


----------



## toear

cool!



seanc6441 said:


> Still not my favourite earbud, but a definite improvement over my stock graphene.



This. I hate having stuff that I can't stand using. At least if I end up giving this away, whoever I give it to won't think I hate them. lol!


----------



## toear

waynes world said:


> Are you talking about the new $16 version or the old $29 version? I suspect you have the new $16 version, because the characteristics you are speaking of don't apply to the old $29 version imo.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure that you have the old $29 version.



I have the new version. I wonder how different the old and new versions are if @seanc6441 notices similar characteristics with his...?


----------



## waynes world

toear said:


> I have the new version. I wonder how different the old and new versions are if @seanc6441 notices similar characteristics with his...?



They are quite a bit different. I understand your impressions of the new $16 version (although I don't feel as negative about them in stock form as you do - I still like them once my ears get accustomed and if I am not ab'ing with others). But they sound quite a bit different than the old $29 graphenes. My old ones are broken now, but my recollection is that they had nice sub-bass extension, not much of a mid-bass hump, very clear (but not sharp to my ears) highs, nice overall clarity, good soundstage and imaging etc. I really loved them. Sean and I have always felt differently about the old $29 graphenes. But there are others that hear them as he does, and other that hear them as I do, so for some reason there is quite a bit of disagreement about the old $29 version. But, I can't see how the mods for the new version would apply to the old version (or vice versa).


----------



## 40760

I for one don't like the new Graphene earbuds and will be giving it to my friend someday soon...


----------



## j4100

Currently revisiting my Crow Audio Ravens. The bass on these is excellent when turned up a little. Grooving to some Endless Boogie right now.

 http://endlessboogie.bandcamp.com/album/vibe-killer


----------



## janawe

Could it be that there are different versions of the "old" Graphene out there? A few months ago I bought a graphene MX760-shelled earbud with similar specifications (resistance, sensitivity, response range) to the NICEHCK "old" graphene. However, it doesn't sound anything like the NICEHCK DIY graphene I bought last August. The "old" NICEHCK graphene is among my favorite earbuds invariant of price class, while the "new" graphenes (with the old specifications and from another seller) sounds bass heavy and muddled – the very opposite qualities of my old graphenes.


----------



## waynes world

janawe said:


> Could it be that there are different versions of the "old" Graphene out there? A few months ago I bought a graphene MX760-shelled earbud with similar specifications (resistance, sensitivity, response range) to the NICEHCK "old" graphene. However, it doesn't sound anything like the NICEHCK DIY graphene I bought last August. The "old" NICEHCK graphene is among my favorite earbuds invariant of price class, while the "new" graphenes (with the old specifications and from another seller) sounds bass heavy and muddled – the very opposite qualities of my old graphenes.



Possibly, but I think that sean (among others) have the NICEHCK "old" graphene, so maybe there are even variants among them as well.


----------



## janawe

Yes, that is what I am thinking. I remember reading a post here a few months ago where the poster was commenting on the difference in signature between two "old" NICEHCK graphenes bought a few months apart. As I remember it, he described the difference as more subtle than what I am hearing between my two "old" graphenes (but only one comming from NICEHCK).


----------



## waynes world

janawe said:


> Yes, that is what I am thinking. I remember reading a post here a few months ago where the poster was commenting on the difference in signature between two "old" NICEHCK graphenes bought a few months apart. As I remember it, he described the difference as more subtle than what I am hearing between my two "old" graphenes (but only one comming from NICEHCK).



Right. I'm hoping that my buddy can fix mine (and also rewire them to be balanced at the same time). But if not, then I will buy another pair from Jim at NICEHCK, but I will query him first to make sure that the "current old ones" are the same as "my old ones".


----------



## ld100

toear said:


> I have a/the newer version worth the single port. It is very hot in the mid and high frequencies. It does extend low but definitely not what I would describe as neutral. Some types of music sound great (acoustic for example)  but others are painful to listen to... (edm for example). I have a love hate relationship with it... Perhaps it needs to but in longer ?  They definitely have airy and holographic qualities to them, which is amazing ... Especially for the price. Many people here seem to love them... . I want to love them....



Sounds exactly like what I got. Build is awesome for the price, but tunning is horrible. I just don’t see anyone enjoying music sounding the way they sound...


----------



## ld100

What would be a good step up from Boarseman 98S?


----------



## jogawag

ld100 said:


> What would be a good step up from Boarseman 98S?


I recommend Willsound MK2 Rev2.


----------



## snip3r77

janawe said:


> Yes, that is what I am thinking. I remember reading a post here a few months ago where the poster was commenting on the difference in signature between two "old" NICEHCK graphenes bought a few months apart. As I remember it, he described the difference as more subtle than what I am hearing between my two "old" graphenes (but only one comming from NICEHCK).



I got the new graphene - transparent casing. Not much difference from old ?


----------



## Zerohour88

janawe said:


> Could it be that there are different versions of the "old" Graphene out there? A few months ago I bought a graphene MX760-shelled earbud with similar specifications (resistance, sensitivity, response range) to the NICEHCK "old" graphene. However, it doesn't sound anything like the NICEHCK DIY graphene I bought last August. The "old" NICEHCK graphene is among my favorite earbuds invariant of price class, while the "new" graphenes (with the old specifications and from another seller) sounds bass heavy and muddled – the very opposite qualities of my old graphenes.



I remember @HungryPanda mentioning the "old" graphene have metal grill, but I have the "old" clear one and its a plastic grill/cover. Maybe the black and clear graphene have different characteristics as well?


----------



## snip3r77 (Jun 9, 2018)

How are AT earbuds?


----------



## 40760

snip3r77 said:


> How are AT earbuds?



CN, HK or TW?


----------



## snip3r77

palestofwhite said:


> CN, HK or TW?


TW lol lol


----------



## Guggga

Listening to Godzilla by The Blue Oyster Cult on the mk3, the sound is magnificent. The guitars are so crunchy and the vocals are clear with the drums hitting right below my ears. Perfect.

Next up Dont Fear the Reaper. Incidentally, I'M wondering why this song wasn't a part of the Baby Driver OST. Fits in with the cheesy logic of Baby songs lol


----------



## 40760

Guggga said:


> Listening to Godzilla by The Blue Oyster Cult on the mk3, the sound is magnificent. The guitars are so crunchy and the vocals are clear with the drums hitting right below my ears. Perfect.
> 
> Next up Dont Fear the Reaper. Incidentally, I'M wondering why this song wasn't a part of the Baby Driver OST. Fits in with the cheesy logic of Baby songs lol



The MK3 is such a smooth version of the MK2... I just want to listen to it all day...


----------



## chinmie

palestofwhite said:


> The MK3 is such a smooth version of the MK2... I just want to listen to it all day...



yup, the MK3 is a hard buds to put down. great one to listen to full albums


----------



## snip3r77

palestofwhite said:


> The MK3 is such a smooth version of the MK2... I just want to listen to it all day...


Haha haha haha


----------



## Guggga

I think the strongest recommendation for the mk3 is the progressive band called Bent Knee. The vocals and the music they play can get very shrill, but on the mk3 the presentation is on point especially with the trebel  bass and vocal detail without getting tiring / fatiguing but including clarity and drama of their music.
Its a pretty demanding band which will sound crap on average earbuds. Not on the mk3.

Give them (bent Knee)  a listen on your favourite earbuds to get what I mean.


----------



## fairx (Jun 9, 2018)

After unable to purchase the t-music v2 due to shipping problem I found another source/store that I'm convinced selling the same item with different name: inntakhifi mx530 v2. Anybody bought this before? Funny they even have same naming v1, v2, v3 and even have v5 for 400ohm. Same as t-music.

Edit
Just bought the v2. If It's good then maybe I'd try the v3 too


----------



## Dobrescu George

There's that Dragon2+ I am working on reviewing


----------



## Guggga

fairx said:


> After unable to purchase the t-music v2 due to shipping problem I found another source/store that I'm convinced selling the same item with different name: inntakhifi mx530 v2. Anybody bought this before? Funny they even have same naming v1, v2, v3 and even have v5 for 400ohm. Same as t-music.
> 
> Edit
> Just bought the v2. If It's good then maybe I'd try the v3 too



Look forforw to your impressions Farix. Their shipping to India is rodonculous too and it's something to do with the shipper they use. I asked them to use another shipper but apparently they can't till their contract is over or something.


----------



## redkingjoe

chaiyuta said:


> @redkingjoe :
> 
> Nordost : I just asked Prakarn Owner, he said that he bought the second-hand nordost cable to make his own show-case earbuds. He informed that even if bulk purchase is discounted but it is still expensive and it neeed to order with the number of many cables (MOQ?).
> 
> ...



Nordost : there’s a blue heaven which is cheaper and very good. Wireworld and Crystal cable has very strong headphone cable too. I’m Thinking about re-cabling. The wireworld platinum is having very interesting construction!

Disc player: most of the best sounding discmans were dead now. The tops are Denon DCP-150; Sony D555, D-15(or 150), D25(250), JVC XL-P70; Technics SL-XP5 and some others. You can still find them on eBay but it’s difficult to find a working one. And if you can get a working one, you don’t know when will it die!


----------



## 40760

Guggga said:


> I think the strongest recommendation for the mk3 is the progressive band called Bent Knee. The vocals and the music they play can get very shrill, but on the mk3 the presentation is on point especially with the trebel  bass and vocal detail without getting tiring / fatiguing but including clarity and drama of their music.
> Its a pretty demanding band which will sound **** on average earbuds. Not on the mk3.
> 
> Give them (bent Knee)  a listen on your favourite earbuds to get what I mean.



I'm starting to wonder why there's not enough love for the MK3 and all of it are going to the MK1 and 2. That said, the MK1 is already with the local post and I should be getting them over the next few days. I'll need to compare the 3 and I have a feeling it's going to be great!


----------



## snip3r77

palestofwhite said:


> I'm starting to wonder why there's not enough love for the MK3 and all of it are going to the MK1 and 2. That said, the MK1 is already with the local post and I should be getting them over the next few days. I'll need to compare the 3 and I have a feeling it's going to be great!



I hope you love mk3 the most haha as I have one


----------



## Dobrescu George

My review on Simphonio Dragon2+ is live now! 

Quite a lovely Earbud, with a price of 300 USD, but with a sonic quality yo make up for that price! 

I invite you to read more about it! 

https://audiophile-heaven.blogspot.com/2018/06/simphonio-balanced-dragon.html


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 10, 2018)

Dobrescu George said:


> My review on Simphonio Dragon2+ is live now!
> 
> Quite a lovely Earbud, with a price of 300 USD, but with a sonic quality yo make up for that price!
> 
> ...


Very nice review!

If I was to make one small critique it’s the use of the term “has expression” when describing the sub bass and calling it ‘good’. It was a little difficult to gauge what you meant exactly whether the quantity was impressive or whether you thought the extension was impressive.

Nonetheless I enjoyed reading the review and it’ll be great to see more reviews of earbuds in the future hopefully with this earbud as a benchmark for a  ‘TOTL’ level earbud.

Well done


----------



## Dobrescu George

seanc6441 said:


> Very nice review!
> 
> If I was to make one small critique it’s the use of the term “has expression” when describing the sub bass and calling it ‘good’. It was a little difficult to gauge what you meant exactly whether the quantity was impressive or whether you thought the extension was impressive.
> 
> ...



Woah, thank you for pointing that to me  

I have changed it to extension to make more sense  

I will try my best to improve and to add more buds in the future if I can  

Those sure are a lovely pair, and they make excellent TOTL Earbuds, Simphonio (was also known as Sunrise before), sure made great job with their IEMs


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> If I was to make one small critique it’s the use of the term “has expression” when describing the sub bass and calling it ‘good’. It was a little difficult to gauge what you meant exactly whether the quantity was impressive or whether you thought the extension was impressive.


Dude, he is in Romania.  His English is far better than my Romanian (which is non-existent) and I bet yours too.

Nice review, and great photos!  What is the DAP in the last picture you posted here?  I thought it was the Hiby, but looks like a volume knob?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 10, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> Dude, he is in Romania.  His English is far better than my Romanian (which is non-existent) and I bet yours too.
> 
> Nice review, and great photos!  What is the DAP in the last picture you posted here?  I thought it was the Hiby, but looks like a volume knob?


I think the idea of constructive criticism has eluded you here? I was trying to be helpful and didn’t say anything to disrespect him.

His english was excellent, I don’t know why you are assuming I was criticising his language skills in any way. I wasn’t. Just pointing out where viewers may misread his point. I enjoyed his review a lot.

Feedback is a good thing...


----------



## Dobrescu George

doggiemom said:


> Dude, he is in Romania.  His English is far better than my Romanian (which is non-existent) and I bet yours too.
> 
> Nice review, and great photos!  What is the DAP in the last picture you posted here?  I thought it was the Hiby, but looks like a volume knob?



iBasso DX 150 actually  

It is a thick sounding DAP, and I am working on writing about it soon  

Also, don't worry, I appreciate criticism because it helps me move forward. I am supposed to write a lot in English aso any kind of advice helps me  



seanc6441 said:


> I think the idea of constructive criticism has eluded you here? I was trying to be helpful and didn’t say anything to disrespect him.
> 
> His english was excellent, I don’t know why you are assuming I was criticising his language skills in any way. I wasn’t. Just pointing out where viewers may misread his point. I enjoyed his review a lot.
> 
> Feedback is a good thing...



Don't worry, I appreciate feedback, helps me improve  

I fixed it now because indeed, it was a mistake on my side because I wrote quickly and confused the terms.


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> I think the idea of constructive criticism has eluded you here?


  No, but I am quite savvy to sarcasm......


seanc6441 said:


> I was trying to be helpful and didn’t say anything to disrespect him.
> 
> His english was excellent, I don’t know why you are assuming I was criticising his language skills in any way. I wasn’t. Just pointing out where viewers may misread his point. I enjoyed his review a lot.
> 
> Feedback is a good thing...


I saw an invitation to read the review, not an invitation for constructive criticism.  From George's response, it is clear that he was not offended in any way, and is receptive to feedback/constructive criticism, so all is well.    Your post just came across to me in a way that obviously you did not intend........ quite common on internet forums.

@Dobrescu George , I will look forward to your impressions of the iBasso!  My first non-mp3 DAP was the DX90, and I bought the DX80 for my husband some time ago for a birthday (though he barely uses it - it is sad), but haven't really been keeping up with their latest offerings since getting the R6.  Would love a DAP with an analog volume control though......


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 10, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> No, but I am quite savvy to sarcasm......
> 
> I saw an invitation to read the review, not an invitation for constructive criticism.  From George's response, it is clear that he was not offended in any way, and is receptive to feedback/constructive criticism, so all is well.    Your post just came across to me in a way that obviously you did not intend........ quite common on internet forums.
> 
> @Dobrescu George , I will look forward to your impressions of the iBasso!  My first non-mp3 DAP was the DX90, and I bought the DX80 for my husband some time ago for a birthday (though he barely uses it - it is sad), but haven't really been keeping up with their latest offerings since getting the R6.  Would love a DAP with an analog volume control though......



All is well and good and as expected we had a reasonable chat and he appreciated my comment. We can move forward now


----------



## chinmie

Dobrescu George said:


> My review on Simphonio Dragon2+ is live now!
> 
> Quite a lovely Earbud, with a price of 300 USD, but with a sonic quality yo make up for that price!
> 
> ...



nice and on point review. Soundstage and mids is where it's at. although isn't the Dragon 2+ is closer in price to the ER4XR than the ER3XR? but i think the comparison would more or less conclude the same as the ER4XR and ER3XR is very similar with slight resolution differences


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> All is well and good and as expected we had a reasonable chat and he appreciated my comment. We can move forward now


Just a heads up...  If someone subscribes to email notifications for a thread, he or she will get an email notification with the original contents of any new posts, even if the post is edited later by the author.

In other news, I received V-Oldy and V-Master from V-Friends last week.  The jury is still out on V-Master...... I love the aesthetics and packaging, but the sound signature is striking me as a bit odd.  Someone else who has them says that they will change after burn in (Though the maker said they were burnt in for 200 hours), so we shall see.  The V-Oldy has a fun sound for a very reasonable price, but it has the dreaded J-cable.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 10, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> Just a heads up...  If someone subscribes to email notifications for a thread, he or she will get an email notification with the original contents of any new posts, even if the post is edited later by the author.
> 
> In other news, I received V-Oldy and V-Master from V-Friends last week.  The jury is still out on V-Master...... I love the aesthetics and packaging, but the sound signature is striking me as a bit odd.  Someone else who has them says that they will change after burn in (Though the maker said they were burnt in for 200 hours), so we shall see.  The V-Oldy has a fun sound for a very reasonable price, but it has the dreaded J-cable.


Yep I’m aware. I edited my post because I wasn’t sure what the context was to your sarcasm comment so I thought it best to not mention it at all after initially posting.

I don’t know if you thought I was being sarcastic or if your post was sarcasm and I didn’t ‘get’ it. So I tried to avoid the discussion altogether by editing it out but obviously that failed!

Needless to say it doesn’t really matter and serves no purpose discussing further for the rest of the  thread viewers.


----------



## chinmie

doggiemom said:


> Just a heads up...  If someone subscribes to email notifications for a thread, he or she will get an email notification with the original contents of any new posts, even if the post is edited later by the author.
> 
> In other news, I received V-Oldy and V-Master from V-Friends last week.  The jury is still out on V-Master...... I love the aesthetics and packaging, but the sound signature is striking me as a bit odd.  Someone else who has them says that they will change after burn in (Though the maker said they were burnt in for 200 hours), so we shall see.  The V-Oldy has a fun sound for a very reasonable price, but it has the dreaded J-cable.



i find the v master a veiled sounding.. don't really like them personally


----------



## mochill

doggiemom said:


> No, but I am quite savvy to sarcasm......
> 
> I saw an invitation to read the review, not an invitation for constructive criticism.  From George's response, it is clear that he was not offended in any way, and is receptive to feedback/constructive criticism, so all is well.    Your post just came across to me in a way that obviously you did not intend........ quite common on internet forums.
> 
> @Dobrescu George , I will look forward to your impressions of the iBasso!  My first non-mp3 DAP was the DX90, and I bought the DX80 for my husband some time ago for a birthday (though he barely uses it - it is sad), but haven't really been keeping up with their latest offerings since getting the R6.  Would love a DAP with an analog volume control though......


You need the shozy alien plus


----------



## 40760 (Jun 11, 2018)

Another great news today... replacement PK32 has been shipped out by Willy...

Edit: MK1 did not show up today with the postman so it'll most likely be tomorrow. Good times ahead!


----------



## RobinFood

Dobrescu George said:


> My review on Simphonio Dragon2+ is live now!
> 
> Quite a lovely Earbud, with a price of 300 USD, but with a sonic quality yo make up for that price!
> 
> ...



Nice review. I am very intrigued by the Dragon 2+ since it seems to use the smaller Yuin style shells, and overcome the small soundstage issues a lot of buds with this style of housing has.
Do you have any other Yuin shelled earbuds you can compare them to?


----------



## doggiemom

chinmie said:


> i find the v master a veiled sounding.. don't really like them personally


Yes, you hit the nail on the head:  the soundstage is reasonable and the placement of instruments and vocalists is accurate, but it still sounds foggy.  (Which is different than dark).  It improved somewhat with amping on the runabout plus...... maybe I’ll try one of the BIG amps on high gain.    Too bad because I love the ability to customize cables and they look really nice.

The V-Oldy is complete different sound wise, so I would buy from V-Friend again...... seems like they are playing around with different sound signatures.


----------



## Dobrescu George

chinmie said:


> nice and on point review. Soundstage and mids is where it's at. although isn't the Dragon 2+ is closer in price to the ER4XR than the ER3XR? but i think the comparison would more or less conclude the same as the ER4XR and ER3XR is very similar with slight resolution differences



I don't think most people wouyld be able to tell ER3XR apart from ER4XR, so the comparison works both ways  



RobinFood said:


> Nice review. I am very intrigued by the Dragon 2+ since it seems to use the smaller Yuin style shells, and overcome the small soundstage issues a lot of buds with this style of housing has.
> Do you have any other Yuin shelled earbuds you can compare them to?



I actually do not have, but the soundstage doesn't feel like it was something they needed to overcome, it feels like one of the strongest points of Dragon2+, so now I am curious about other Earbuds using the same Shell (?)


----------



## sofastreamer

I like both 1more buds i have. One is the e1008, which is the most expensive. Great soundstage and bass authority. Any one got experience with these? How are they rated here?


----------



## waynes world

sofastreamer said:


> I like both 1more buds i have. One is the e1008, which is the most expensive. Great soundstage and bass authority. Any one got experience with these? How are they rated here?



Yeah, but do those 1more's have triple drivers? Oops sorry - I'm just excited about my 1more triple driver headphones that are in transit. I'll go back to my corner now


----------



## rkw

sofastreamer said:


> I like both 1more buds i have. One is the e1008, which is the most expensive. Great soundstage and bass authority. Any one got experience with these? How are they rated here?


I've had the E1008 a couple of years and like them a lot. They've been mentioned positively here (do a thread search) but never became popular with this crowd (nor with the general public, which favors 1More's Triple Driver IEM). Build quality and packaging are exemplary — they look and feel like a well built, high quality product (unlike some much more expensive TOTL buds with generic cheap plastic shells).


waynes world said:


> Yeah, but do those 1more's have triple drivers?


The E1008 are dual driver.


----------



## RuFrost

Have anybody ever tried custom sleeves for earbuds? Like custom sleeves for iems, but for the earbuds! Or is there any custom earbuds yet?
P.s: I have monk, monk+, diomnes lv1, lv2...and on all of them there is like 0.5mm which requires to be pressed by hands in order to hear the maximum quality. I think custom sleeves can solve such issue.


----------



## gazzington

Does anybody know where I can buy docomo earbuds from? The ones that are modified to make blur black Panthers. Can't find them anywhere.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 12, 2018)

gazzington said:


> Does anybody know where I can buy docomo earbuds from? The ones that are modified to make blur black Panthers. Can't find them anywhere.



You can buy docomo earbuds here.
https://www.amazon.com/Hoared-Earphone-Earplugs-Headset-Version/dp/B074KXBV6X

If you can understand Chinese or you use chrome browser, you can buy docomo earbuds here.
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=521991351143

But I have not buy at either. I have bought at flea market accidentally.


----------



## chinmie

Dobrescu George said:


> I don't think most people wouyld be able to tell ER3XR apart from ER4XR, so the comparison works both ways
> 
> 
> 
> I actually do not have, but the soundstage doesn't feel like it was something they needed to overcome, it feels like one of the strongest points of Dragon2+, so now I am curious about other Earbuds using the same Shell (?)



compared to other yuin styled shell (or even most other earbuds) the D2+ soundstage is huge


----------



## snip3r77

I have 5 buddies and I thought of gifting a Vido. Any other suggestions? Budget sub $10


----------



## golov17

jogawag said:


> You can buy docomo earbuds here.
> https://www.amazon.com/Hoared-Earphone-Earplugs-Headset-Version/dp/B074KXBV6X
> 
> If you can understand Chinese or you use chrome browser, you can buy docomo earbuds here.
> ...


I think he meant these Docomo..


----------



## 40760

MK1 is officially in... now for the burn in... 

The MK family is now complete...


----------



## jogawag

golov17 said:


> I think he meant these Docomo..


Sorry, I showed ordinary docomo earbuds...


----------



## jogawag

palestofwhite said:


> MK1 is officially in... now for the burn in...
> 
> The MK family is now complete...


Congratulation!
Please introduce us the character of each MK family.


----------



## 40760

jogawag said:


> Congratulation!
> Please introduce us the character of each MK family.



Thank you! I'll have to spend more time with them first...


----------



## Vinson N.

big collector


----------



## 40760

Vinson N. said:


> big collector



If you're talking about Willsound, I'll say yes there're definitely worth collecting!


----------



## snip3r77

palestofwhite said:


> MK1 is officially in... now for the burn in...
> 
> The MK family is now complete...


Do we have quick impression mk1 vs mk3?


----------



## jogawag

snip3r77 said:


> Do we have quick impression mk1 vs mk3?


And pk32?


----------



## Guggga

palestofwhite said:


> Thank you! I'll have to spend more time with them first...



Congratulations! Give them all atleast 50 hrs. The mk3 especially.


----------



## 40760

Replacement PK32 will take another week or more to arrive, so that'll be quite a while before I can compare...

MK1 definitely needs more burning in at this stage. MK3 sounds more defined/refined at this stage, while the MK1 rather unique.
Its sound presentation is very likeable. You guys will have to pardon me for my ability (or rather, disability) to describe what I'm hearing because I'm just not technical in that way...


----------



## snip3r77

palestofwhite said:


> Replacement PK32 will take another week or more to arrive, so that'll be quite a while before I can compare...
> 
> MK1 definitely needs more burning in at this stage. MK3 sounds more defined/refined at this stage, while the MK1 rather unique.
> Its sound presentation is very likeable. You guys will have to pardon me for my ability (or rather, disability) to describe what I'm hearing because I'm just not technical in that way...



just tell us

high, mids, bass, soundstage

which is better.

Good enough/


----------



## mbwilson111

snip3r77 said:


> just tell us
> 
> high, mids, bass, soundstage
> 
> ...



You are relentless.  Give him time to enjoy them.


----------



## Guggga

Ideally a new pair of phones should be given atleast four to five days of listening so that they open up to reveal their true nature and more importantly, your ears and brain get a chance to adjust to a new sound signature.


----------



## 40760

You guys are right! I can't give any proper assessment now... It'll just be unfair...


----------



## bonson

Cygnus from the interior. It had a channel imbalance Trying to fix it I opened the left side. But now it has no sound at all. I will try to put another driver in it. Sad It sounded so good   but I will try to do some diy earbuds


----------



## gazzington

golov17 said:


> I think he meant these Docomo..


yes
Where can I get a set of those from?


----------



## golov17

gazzington said:


> yes
> Where can I get a set of those from?


Dont know


----------



## Razorbud (Jun 12, 2018)

Just got my pk32s today.

Quick impressions (without any foams): cable seems pretty nice and flexible. Doesn't appear to have a lot of memory so far. Sound is fairly neutral. Highs have a bit of sparkle to them, not too fatiguing. Sub bass is a little lacking. Could do with more oomph. Soundstage and instrumental separation is good/alright depending on track (could just be the tracks I listen to).

Will play around with some foams and hopefully will have the time to post again.

EDIT: Bass is much better with the included foams. Also, the part above where I said bass was a little lacking, turns out it was a mistake on my part. I was playing a different part of the song which I thought should have a bit more bass. Listening again, it seems pretty good. Enough of a punch, maybe even a rumble for me in some areas. Could still have a touch more extension IMO. Also, they're really easy to drive. I'm using them with my O2 and I've only turned the knob around one and a quarter notches (from 6 o'clock to around 7.15/730).

tl;dr: Use them with the foams guys


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 12, 2018)

Razorbud said:


> Just got my pk32s today.
> 
> Quick impressions (without any foams): cable seems pretty nice and flexible. Doesn't appear to have a lot of memory so far. Sound is fairly neutral. Highs have a bit of sparkle to them, not too fatiguing. Sub bass is a little lacking. Could do with more oomph. Soundstage and instrumental separation is good/alright depending on track (could just be the tracks I listen to).
> 
> ...


I plan on trying them with the super thin aliexpress foams, hoping the treble extends enough with those as I love extended clear treble. Bass too of course but I’m willing to let that slide a little as long as it’s punchy and tight with some sub bass.

Any other earbuds you have to compare too as a reference?


----------



## jogawag

seanc6441 said:


> I plan on trying them with the super thin aliexpress foams, hoping the treble extends enough with those as I love extended coear treble. Bass too of course but I’m willing to let that slide a little as long as it’s punchy and tight with some sub bass.
> 
> Any other earbuds you have to compare too as a reference?



You have Willsound PK32 too?
Please compare Nicehck DIY PK2 and Shozy BK as a reference.


----------



## seanc6441

jogawag said:


> You have Willsound PK32 too?
> Please compare Nicehck DIY PK2 and Shozy BK as a reference.


Soon 

They are in transit. Also I have to wait for the Fiio L26 adapter thingy I ordered to use my BK (2.5mm) in my LG V20.

So yeah once they both arrive I’ll compare them. I pretty interested in the BK and PK32 face off, I feel like if the PK32 can stand up to the BK it’s amazing value for money.


----------



## waynes world

Guggga said:


> Ideally a new pair of phones should be given atleast four to five days of listening so that they open up to reveal their true nature and more importantly, your ears and brain get a chance to adjust to a new sound signature.



'nuff said right there!


----------



## antdroid (Jun 12, 2018)

I made a random set of purchases of low budget ear buds recently and just want to share some impressions of them for those looking for a cheap ear bud. These are all pretty good, though they all have their limitations.

*VE Monk Lite 40 Ohm*
I had the 120 Ohm already. These ones sound very boring and muddy compared to the 120 Ohm. The 120 Ohm is much more detailed and refined. Sounds decent, but 120 Ohm is a better purchase.

*VE Monk Lite 120 Ohm*
A better deal than the 40 Ohm variant, but does need a little more driving power. Still fine for mobiles. Good neutral sound. Good detail. Very lightweight. Less mid-vocal focused than the Monk. May sound a little hollow due to small driver size but overall recommended!

***** PT15*
Very good build quality and removable cable at a super budget price! It's very bass anemic. Bright! But not piercing or contains any sibilance. Lots of detail in the mids and treble for the price though! The bass port needs to be widened a bit to give a bit more fullness to the sound though could have bad side effects of uncontrolled midbass - may try modding it for fun.

_*update: Just eq'd this with some bumps in the low end and mid-bass and now these sound really good!*_

*Yincrow X6*
These are slightly warm earphone. The bass is quite good for the budget. Detail is lacking a little bit compared to others here, but overall good sound. Treble rolls off a bit. Sounds best with donuts. Really like the cable and connector on this. Won't need to mod it!. The bass is quite good for the budget. Detail is lacking but overall good sound. Treble rolls off a bit. Sounds best with donuts. Really like the cable and connector on this. Won't need to mod it!

*Sennheiser MX365*
Classic earbuds from a big brand. Initally very comfortable, but can be uncomfortable over time. Not sure why. Lacking a little bit of bass (compared to the X6) and slightly hollow sounding. Not as anemic as the PT15 though. Very mid-focused. Rolls off on treble and bass. Also, removed the cable and put in my own braided copper.


----------



## waynes world

antdroid said:


> I made a random set of purchases of low budget ear buds recently and just want to share some impressions of them for those looking for a cheap ear bud. These are all pretty good, though they all have their limitations.
> 
> *VE Monk Lite 40 Ohm*
> I had the 120 Ohm already. These ones sound very boring and muddy compared to the 120 Ohm. The 120 Ohm is much more detailed and refined. Sounds decent, but 120 Ohm is a better purchase.
> ...



Nice impressions. I concur with your monk 120 and pt15 impressions (and I agree that the pt15 sound quite good with a bass bump).


----------



## chinmie

Guggga said:


> Ideally a new pair of phones should be given atleast four to five days of listening so that they open up to reveal their true nature and more importantly, your ears and brain get a chance to adjust to a new sound signature.



yes, especially swapping from very different signature sounding headphones. i remember on a meeting, my friend listened to the Liebesleid and he said he didn't like it. i said to him "give a minute to adjust“. after adjusting period, he just sat there changing tracks, and then switch back to his earbuds and said" wow.. Now this all other sounded %@#".

On another instance, a fellow tried an etymotic after using a bass heavy iems, and said the ety sounded like @%# 



seanc6441 said:


> I plan on trying them with the super thin aliexpress foams, hoping the treble extends enough with those as I love extended clear treble. Bass too of course but I’m willing to let that slide a little as long as it’s punchy and tight with some sub bass.
> 
> Any other earbuds you have to compare too as a reference?



To my ears the PK32 sounded thin in bass and the staging too dispersed with thin foams, and i only like it with full foams (using hiegis on it) as the treble doesn't seem to be compromised with using thick foams. But i'm interested to hear your assessment on that. Can't wait for you to have the PK32 and do shootout with the BK (and other yuin shell in your collection)


----------



## toear (Jun 12, 2018)

Hi all,

Just wanted to share with all of those pt15 owners with the screaming mid - highs... I managed to crack open my pair without destroying them. I did a bit of tinkering and tuning... and WOW! You get all the goodness of pt15 clarity and detail with mids and highs balanced out with bass and sub bass! Before tuning I would hear sub bass peak out here and there on some tracks but mostly it was buried my the mid and upper frequencies. Now that those are tamed I can hear the big picture. I would say they are not a frequency range specialist like some buds that really focus on mids and highs (like my diy pk1 - very dark and bass anemic), but rather cover the whole spectrum nicely. They sound awesome with everything so far... All-arounders. They kick in the bass and sub bass like my seahf awk 64 and are noticeably cleaner/clearer than my he150 (I actually have the HE 150 PRO incoming... Hope they are not redundant to these).

Anyway, the only thing I noticed with some tracks is that with some instruments (sax or trumpet) they can sounds a bit 'crunchy'. I'm thinking it may actually be the recording as overall the highs do sound smooth...  Will give them some more time then go from there...

I was about to shelve these buds... Glad I didn't...!!!


----------



## antdroid

toear said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just wanted to share with all of those pt15 owners with the screaming mid - highs... I managed to crack open my pair without destroying them. I did a bit of tinkering and tuning... and WOW! You get all the goodness of pt15 clarity and detail with mids and highs balanced out with bass and sub bass! Before tuning I would hear sub bass peak out here and there on some tracks but mostly it was buried my the mid and upper frequencies. Now that those are tamed I can hear the big picture. I would say they are not a frequency range specialist like some buds that really focus on mids and highs (like my diy pk1 - very dark and bass anemic), but rather cover the whole spectrum nicely. They sound awesome with everything so far... All-arounders. They kick in the bass and sub bass like my seahf awk 64 and are noticeably cleaner/clearer than my he150 (I actually have the HE 150 PRO incoming... Hope they are not redundant to these).
> 
> ...



want to show or explain the mods you did?! 

I was thinking of opening up the port in the back to give extra bass to it. Only thing is it could be tricky to control and it is not reversible. So far, EQ has made these sound like a dream for $11 USD!


----------



## 40760

Here are my very initial impressions of the MK series:

The MK1 is more intimate but the MK3 sounds overall more refined and cleaner. Both are warm but the MK1 is a tad looser in presentation, but not to a point to be deemed as a weakness.
The MK2 is simply an analytical version (less the warmth) of the MK3 and these 2 are more similar than compared to the MK1.

If the intention was to incrementally tune and refine the MK series from 1 to 3, then I must say Willy has succeeded.
Because the MK3 has got a good balance of both the good traits of 1 and 2. That being said, there's something for everyone in the MK line, should one lean more towards a specific trait.


----------



## RuFrost

what was original price for Kinera Earbuds? The one is selling right now in Russia for almost 100$.
http://forum.doctorhead.ru/index.ph...ule=core&do=view_item&item_id=28146#questions


----------



## jogawag

RuFrost said:


> what was original price for Kinera Earbuds? The one is selling right now in Russia for almost 100$.
> http://forum.doctorhead.ru/index.ph...ule=core&do=view_item&item_id=28146#questions


Kinera Earbuds is $100 in Russia!? I bought it for $23...
Kinera Earbuds has very much popularity in Russia, isn't it?
Is it because Kinera Earbuds is sparkling and beautiful for women?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/kinera/32840772369.html


----------



## RuFrost

jogawag said:


> Kinera Earbuds is $100 in Russia!? I bought it for $23...
> Kinera Earbuds has very much popularity in Russia, isn't it?
> Is it because Kinera Earbuds is sparkling and beautiful for women?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/kinera/32840772369.html


This was probably the second offer ever on russian second-hand market. Too bad Russian sell\buy audio forums do not have policies like headfi has. It is allowed to put whatever price you want for stuff, even though if original price is raised up 5 times.((


----------



## snip3r77

palestofwhite said:


> Here are my very initial impressions of the MK series:
> 
> The MK1 is more intimate but the MK3 sounds overall more refined and cleaner. Both are warm but the MK1 is a tad looser in presentation, but not to a point to be deemed as a weakness.
> The MK2 is simply an analytical version (less the warmth) of the MK3 and these 2 are more similar than compared to the MK1.
> ...


Ok thanks . I made the right choice haha


----------



## 40760

snip3r77 said:


> Ok thanks . I made the right choice haha



But... there's no wrong choice!


----------



## Qualcheduno

So, some weeks I lost my beloved TP16, and now I'm searching for an upgrade with a similar sound signature. Which buds would you suggest in the sub 50€ range? And in the sub 100?


----------



## snip3r77

RuFrost said:


> This was probably the second offer ever on russian second-hand market. Too bad Russian sell\buy audio forums do not have policies like headfi has. It is allowed to put whatever price you want for stuff, even though if original price is raised up 5 times.((


I


Qualcheduno said:


> So, some weeks I lost my beloved TP16, and now I'm searching for an upgrade with a similar sound signature. Which buds would you suggest in the sub 50€ range? And in the sub 100?


Willsound haha


----------



## Guggga

palestofwhite said:


> But... there's no wrong choice!


Cant say that better. Havent heard a bad willsound yet  and I have them all now!


----------



## 40760

Guggga said:


> Cant say that better. Havent heard a bad willsound yet  and I have them all now!



We're fortunate to own all of them, but it's getting hard having to pick which to use each time...


----------



## Razorbud

seanc6441 said:


> I plan on trying them with the super thin aliexpress foams, hoping the treble extends enough with those as I love extended clear treble. Bass too of course but I’m willing to let that slide a little as long as it’s punchy and tight with some sub bass.
> 
> Any other earbuds you have to compare too as a reference?



Yup. I have the monk+, monk lite 120Ohms and the Vidos. I initially thought that the mids on the pk32 were a little recessed, slightly thin even but after comparing with the monk lite, the pk32 is a little more forward on the mids than the monk lite 120 Ohms


----------



## seanc6441

Razorbud said:


> Yup. I have the monk+, monk lite 120Ohms and the Vidos. I initially thought that the mids on the pk32 were a little recessed, slightly thin even but after comparing with the monk lite, the pk32 is a little more forward on the mids than the monk lite 120 Ohms


How does the bass compare to monk lites? I like them to extend a little future in sub bass and be a little more controlled and textured in the mid bass for the price. Monk plus is alright but the bass is nothing special, however it makes a good basis to compare budget earbuds too because it’s an all rounder type.


----------



## gazzington

Anybody know of any buds going for a good price on the upcoming aliexpress sale


----------



## bonson

just received my pk32. Soundstage width is good but depth is missing. I feel it s not as intimate and analog as the Shozy BK. Shozy are a step up IMHO. May be I would like a tad more sub bass . Mids and high are pleasant But all this is at first listen.


----------



## Guggga

bonson said:


> just received my pk32. Soundstage width is good but depth is missing. I feel it s not as intimate and analog as the Shozy BK. Shozy are a step up IMHO. May be I would like a tad more sub bass . Mids and high are pleasant But all this is at first listen.



Give them some playtime, the sound changes after 40-50 hrs. 100hrs is ideal. Compared to the mks, the pks change more with usage. 

Interested in knowing a comparison between a fully burned in Shozy and pk32. How much hours of usage do your shozy have now?


----------



## bonson

Guggga said:


> Give them some playtime, the sound changes after 40-50 hrs. 100hrs is ideal. Compared to the mks, the pks change more with usage.
> 
> Interested in knowing a comparison between a fully burned in Shozy and pk32. How much hours of usage do your shozy have now?


Oh my Shozy have hundreds of hours now. I think I bought them 2 years ago. I will give the PK32 more time.


----------



## Qualcheduno

snip3r77 said:


> I
> 
> Willsound haha


Ok, thanks! Which version specifically? And what about other Toneking/Musicmaker products, like Ting, Tomahawk or TO- earbuds? I'm asking because TP16 had astonishing build quality for the price.


----------



## handwander

Back from my taipei trip and came home to delivered 'Panda PK2s'. Really blown away by these. Granted the only buds I have now are the EMX500s and the Monk Lite models but I liked those enough. These though are just amazing. I really like the 'Shozy' style shell as well. Are the Willsound's significantly better than these?


----------



## snip3r77

handwander said:


> Back from my taipei trip and came home to delivered 'Panda PK2s'. Really blown away by these. Granted the only buds I have now are the EMX500s and the Monk Lite models but I liked those enough. These though are just amazing. I really like the 'Shozy' style shell as well. Are the Willsound's significantly better than these?


How does PK2s compared to emx500s?


----------



## handwander

snip3r77 said:


> How does PK2s compared to emx500s?


I'm terrible at describing audio equipment so maybe listen to anyone else who replies to this instead of me, but I think the bass of the emx500s is really impressive that it makes a strong first impression as people are surprised at the output. The SQ isn't bad either but I think especially for the price, people are surprised at the results from an earbud. Pandas are just all around impressive though. Sound objectively better IMO and donuts made the bass emx500s level (which after listening with normal foams I find to be too much, so will probably remove them). Would be surprised if there is anything similarly priced or priced lower than beats these and I would actually recommend peeople just pass on any 10-15$ FAAEL model or whatever they are interested in and sped a bit more for these.

That said, at another $10 increase, maybe the Willsounds everyone has been ordering are much better, so curious about the comparison between those as well.


----------



## waynes world

handwander said:


> That said, at another $10 increase, maybe the Willsounds everyone has been ordering are much better, so curious about the comparison between those as well.



I can't tell you the difference (I don't have the pk2), but it is obvious that you are going to be getting one of the willsounds one of these days. Resistance is indeed useless lol


----------



## mochill

waynes world said:


> I can't tell you the difference (I don't have the pk2), but it is obvious that you are going to be getting one of the willsounds one of these days. Resistance is indeed useless lol


I have resistance


----------



## handwander

waynes world said:


> I can't tell you the difference (I don't have the pk2), but it is obvious that you are going to be getting one of the willsounds one of these days. Resistance is indeed useless lol


Normally you'd be right but I've come to find spending money on minor alternative earbuds or iems to be pretty wasteful for me. I'll only ever use a couple of pairs in different situations so I've no desire to amass a collection of things I won't use lol. If the willsounds aren't some massive upgrade then I'm fine with passing on them.

There are other factors like wanting to try other form factors or whatever but of course this is almost never the case for earbuds rather than IEMs.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 13, 2018)

handwander said:


> Normally you'd be right but I've come to find spending money on minor alternative earbuds or iems to be pretty wasteful for me. I'll only ever use a couple of pairs in different situations so I've no desire to amass a collection of things I won't use lol. If the willsounds aren't some massive upgrade then I'm fine with passing on them.
> 
> There are other factors like wanting to try other form factors or whatever but of course this is almost never the case for earbuds rather than IEMs.


I owned the PK2s. It was nice after burn in but undeniably a more mid centric sound than the emx500 and even the shozy bk. Thick smooth mids is what you get at the cost of some extension and emphasis on both ends. Although with some EQ in bass and treble it was pretty solid all arounder.

I’m wondering if anyone messed around with EQ on their shozy BK. With how linear the frequency response seems to be and it’s quality in detail if you could EQ in some upper treble and sub bass would it balance out and become incredibly neutral? Also since hearing them originally I have learned foam tricks I didn’t know before to help with the soundstage and treble extension which may come in handy for the BK, cannot wait to try my BK again it’s been quite a long time and as that was one of my first TOTL earbuds I’m wondering if experience with other buds will change my impression of them at all. Kinda exciting to find out 

Also waiting to see if the willsounds are indeed a massive upgrade over all the buds mentioned  (Shozy bk excluded, ill be happy if it even matches them at the price gap)


----------



## gazzington

Where do you order willsound buds from?


----------



## jogawag (Jun 14, 2018)

gazzington said:


> Where do you order willsound buds from?



You can buy it from the shop below.
http://www.rholupat.com/product?page=3
http://www.rholupat.com/product?page=4

Or you can buy it directly from Willy.(A little cheap?)
@WillSound


----------



## subwoof3r

bonson said:


> just received my pk32. Soundstage width is good but depth is missing. I feel it s not as intimate and analog as the Shozy BK. Shozy are a step up IMHO. May be I would like a tad more sub bass . Mids and high are pleasant But all this is at first listen.



Interesting to see that at least you have bass on your pair then. I agree with mids and highs, even if highs have some rolloff at the upper end. Some details are lacking in some of my usual tracks compared to my MK2 rev2.
Where I'm never disapointed on Willsoud earbuds is clearly the "natural" sound they all produce.
Anyway, I will wait my replacement pair before making final judgement on PK32.


----------



## Zerohour88

Qualcheduno said:


> Ok, thanks! Which version specifically? And what about other Toneking/Musicmaker products, like Ting, Tomahawk or TO- earbuds? I'm asking because TP16 had astonishing build quality for the price.



got the Toneking TO180 a few weeks back, definitely loving them. Great build quality and the included cable is really good, barely any microphonics. Mid-forward sound sig for my daily listening pleasure.


----------



## Guggga (Jun 14, 2018)

Today I'm listening to the Willsound 300 rev 2, they have about 30hrs on them now. They're balanced and the Soundstage width is immense, it's like being in a mini concert. The bass is well rounded, good quality. Not extended like the mks and the mids are full and engaging. Very easy listening fatigue free fun earbud.

They are excellent for acoustic , folk and atmospheric music. Bands like Fleet Foxes,  CSNY, Bon Iver, Sufjan Stevens sound downright gorgeous on these.

Bands like Haken , Bent Knee, Plastic Picnic sound spacious and smooth, with everything happening in the midrange magnified greatly without any fatigue. Especially enjoying them with progressive rock where they are upto the task of following the changing notes in music.

While they don't have the sub bass oomph of the mks, what differentiates them is the analogue and spacious presentation of music with very good clarity and good fast mid bass which is more than enough to keep things interesting.  Also, my ears dont ring even after hearing them for long sessions. This makes them very special for me.

They drive pretty easily off my lg v20 using the uapp player and trigger its high impedance mode.

Edit : Cats in the Cradle by Harry Chapin just came up on my tidal list. The presentation is natural and engaging with  breathing space between instruments. Great spatial imaging. It's like watching them play in front of me with eyes closed.

Next change - Bring your Daughter to the slaughter by Iron Maiden. Again the same open presentation, very engaging. Bruce Dickinsons voice is effortless and the guitars are wide and electric. There's not a lot of mid bass in the song, the drum hits are all about subbass. Not as full filling as a mk, but enough to keep it engaging.

Edit again : The Rover, Led Zeppelin - very enjoyable. These buds are great for classic rock as well.


----------



## bonson

subwoof3r said:


> Interesting to see that at least you have bass on your pair then. I agree with mids and highs, even if highs have some rolloff at the upper end. Some details are lacking in some of my usual tracks compared to my MK2 rev2.
> Where I'm never disapointed on Willsoud earbuds is clearly the "natural" sound they all produce.
> Anyway, I will wait my replacement pair before making final judgement on PK32.


Bass is shy . I won't say no bass at all. I agree with your statement about details. But let see after burning. I found the stock foam make the sound veiled.


----------



## 40760

The MK1 is just so raw sounding... I feel it needs even more time to burn in than the MK 2 or 3...


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> The MK1 is just so raw sounding... I feel it needs even more time to burn in than the MK 2 or 3...



I only have the MK1 rev 2 and I love listening to my music with them.  I have burned them in but I am never sure if I can tell a difference.  Maybe because I have so much other gear.

What do you mean by raw sounding?  Is that a good thing or a bad thing?


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> I only have the MK1 rev 2 and I love listening to my music with them.  I have burned them in but I am never sure if I can tell a difference.  Maybe because I have so much other gear.
> 
> What do you mean by raw sounding?  Is that a good thing or a bad thing?



I did notice the sound opening up more for the MK2 and 3 after a few days of burning in. Their bass extends further and sounds more holographic after that period.

The "Rawness" of the MK1 to me is just a different flavour. It's just a little less refined than the MK2 and 3, but it sounds thicker and and more condensed.


----------



## 40760 (Jun 15, 2018)

Sounds really good with the MK1...


----------



## seanc6441

Got my Willsounds. MK2 is a great earbud overall. I changed the foams to thicker donuts that only block the other circle on vents and leave the inner open. I find them smoother this way, but retain the lovely depth of sound these have.

To me these sound on par with the Rose Masya, slighty slower bass but more coherant lower mids.

Once I put a dip at around 200hz and raised around 1khz and 3khz on a wide bump, these basically become an improved Masya, with the same bass quality, same slightly forward mids and clear crisp treble. Soundstage is effortless and spacious in all directions. They no longer sound boxy and they vocal range boost makes them so sweet sounding.

I haven't used an MX500 shell in awhile, it's not as uncomfortable as I remember maybe my ears have gotten bigger 

Honestly with a few tweaks these are 10/10 earbuds for the price. Definitely can see the hype now!


----------



## seanc6441

As for PK32 it's a different story, I'm in the same camp as @subwoof3r , WHERE'S THE BASS? It's completely missing in some tracks, even coming from bass light earbuds like DIY PK2 and **** PT15.

Listening to Lordes Royals on both MK2 and PK32 is like listening to different songs... It's like the pk32 cannot extend below 50hz at all.

Ok I'll lay off the criticism as I may have a bad unit like Subwoofer, I'll also be contacting willy to get a replacement because it's not really useable in its current state. I won't be comparing these to shozy bk or other earbuds currently because it's not even fair.

Maybe a replacement unit will be a different story for us, and then I can do a comparison to my other buds.


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> As for PK32 it's a different story, I'm in the same camp as @subwoof3r , WHERE'S THE BASS? It's completely missing in some tracks, even coming from bass light earbuds like DIY PK2 and **** PT15. Listening to Lordes Royals on both MK2 and PK32 is like listening to different songs... It's like the pk32 cannot extend below 50hz at all.



That being said, I'm starting to suspect that the "lack of bass" might be an inherent characteristic of the PK32...

I myself, am also awaiting for the arrival of my replacement, although my issue was with a dead right driver.


----------



## WillSound

seanc6441 said:


> As for PK32 it's a different story, I'm in the same camp as @subwoof3r , WHERE'S THE BASS? It's completely missing in some tracks, even coming from bass light earbuds like DIY PK2 and **** PT15.
> 
> Listening to Lordes Royals on both MK2 and PK32 is like listening to different songs... It's like the pk32 cannot extend below 50hz at all.
> 
> ...


try to burn first PK32 some hours, bass must be there.


----------



## seanc6441

WillSound said:


> try to burn first PK32 some hours, bass must be there.


ok I’ll try that first thanks


----------



## gazzington

WillSound said:


> try to burn first PK32 some hours, bass must be there.


Hi. Can I order buds directly from you?


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> As for PK32 it's a different story, I'm in the same camp as @subwoof3r , WHERE'S THE BASS? It's completely missing in some tracks, even coming from bass light earbuds like DIY PK2 and **** PT15.
> 
> Listening to Lordes Royals on both MK2 and PK32 is like listening to different songs... It's like the pk32 cannot extend below 50hz at all.
> 
> ...



it seems the PK32 has a split opinion, i don't know if this because of faulty units or purely preferences. if you don't mind me asking, what foams are you using with the PK32? and also on the MK2?


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> it seems the PK32 has a split opinion, i don't know if this because of faulty units or purely preferences. if you don't mind me asking, what foams are you using with the PK32? and also on the MK2?


Pk2 I tried stock and MK2 thin foams. Regardless the bass was non present. Couldn't really evaluate the rest without bass to balance it out.

Mk2 with stock thin foams, regular donuts and multi hole donuts (best so far). Sounds good regardless of foam used, just foam roll for fine tuning of bass and treble.


----------



## siderak

seanc6441 said:


> Got my Willsounds. MK2 is a great earbud overall. I changed the foams to thicker donuts that only block the other circle on vents and leave the inner open. I find them smoother this way, but retain the lovely depth of sound these have.
> 
> To me these sound on par with the Rose Masya, slighty slower bass but more coherant lower mids.
> 
> ...



I like the way the mk2 sounds with no foams best.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Pk2 I tried stock and MK2 thin foams. Regardless the bass was non present. Couldn't really evaluate the rest without bass to balance it out.
> 
> Mk2 with stock thin foams, regular donuts and multi hole donuts (best so far). Sounds good regardless of foam used, just foam roll for fine tuning of bass and treble.



if you push the PK32 deeper to the ears, does the bass increase at all? 
my unit has larger bass than the Liebesleid and about the same but a bit deeper than PT15. might try willy's suggestion first on the burn in.. although to be fair, mine has bass from the get go..i hope your's get better from the burn in process


----------



## gazzington

Are there any earbuds good for all round general use but also for some jazz?


----------



## seanc6441

gazzington said:


> Are there any earbuds good for all round general use but also for some jazz?


Price? Mojito and Black Ling are excellent for jazz. But for more budget pricing it's gonna sound like a cliche by now but... Mk2 lol

For me jazz earbuds need deep warm bass and great treble clarity and extension. Natural-neutral mids timbre and large soundstage with good imaging and layering.

Mk2 will sing with jazz, i tried it earlier. 

Only thing Mojito and Ling has over it is 10% more texture/detail and slightly more treble extension but really it's not a huge difference. All three are a joy to listen to jazz with.


----------



## kfarndog

gazzington said:


> Are there any earbuds good for all round general use but also for some jazz?



Two earbuds that I really love for jazz and classical - Musicmaker (or Mr Z) Tomahawk and Rose Mojito.  Depending on your budget, the Tomahawks' soundstage and air are hard to beat for under $50 in the jazz genre (or if you like that type of sound).


----------



## kfarndog

seanc6441 said:


> Price? Mojito and Black Ling are excellent for jazz. But for more budget pricing it's gonna sound like a cliche by now but... Mk2 lol
> 
> For me jazz earbuds need deep warm bass and great treble clarity and extension. Natural-neutral mids timbre and large soundstage with good imaging and layering.
> 
> ...




You are going to make me breakdown and buy some Willsound.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Price? Mojito and Black Ling are excellent for jazz. But for more budget pricing it's gonna sound like a cliche by now but... Mk2 lol
> 
> For me jazz earbuds need deep warm bass and great treble clarity and extension. Natural-neutral mids timbre and large soundstage with good imaging and layering.
> 
> Mk2 will sing with jazz, i tried it earlier.



Glad you're digging the MK2's so much


----------



## chinmie

gazzington said:


> Are there any earbuds good for all round general use but also for some jazz?



Depends on budget and what kind of jazz, also your preference (do you like bass, or treble, or vocals/mids)? . I think all buds are essentially capable for general use


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> I think all buds are essentially capable for general use



Certainly all the nice ones that we talk about in here.


----------



## capnjack

This mornings set up with the Earstudio and Poweramp from my phone! 
@mbwilson111 these absolutely blow the Mk.1 rev2 out of the water, BUT at about 4-5x the price. 
You just get more of everything, air/space in soundstage, better defined bass, detailed/textured mids, sweet/crisp treble. Absolutely totl imho! Worth every penny though  I thought today would be a Runrig day, so here’s a link


----------



## RobinFood

chaiyuta said:


> Thanks Mr. RobinFood. there is no specific. Just try whatever you always do. Either you like or dislike, Fitting issue, etc. However if you could try it with fripSide, Claris, or JOJO songs might be plus.



I just spent 20 minutes with the B&O play using my Shanlin M0 in AAC mode.

This is my first time writing impressions, so please bear wiyh me.

I didn't have the artists you did, but it sounde like some female vocals and J-Pop, so I used some Perfume, Mizuki Nana, Kalafina, Lorde and the soundtrack of Frozen.

The build was great. The buds were absolutely beutiful and solid. The ear hooks had no flex whatsoever. The demo unit had thick foams on them. The wire and remote were extremely light, and everything was built into the hook-bud part, so they were extremely comfortable. All the weight was on the ear hooks. 

They were bigger than the typical VE buds, so they didn't really fit in my ears, just kind of floated next to my ears. Luckily the ear hook was really secure, no way they can fall out.

The first thing that struck out from the overall sound was the bass. The sub bass rumble was very good and tasteful! More rumble than my ER4XRs, without any extra muddy mid-bass.
The mids were a little recessed, definately behind the bass.
The highs were not sibilant, but they didn't seem to have that much sparkle. They were alright though, properly extended, just not the star of the show.

Separation and soundstage were alright. Not particularily impressive compared to other earbuds. Details were good enough, about what you can expect from a bassy dynamic in the 50 to 100 dollar range. Not lacking, but I was listening to my ER4s on the train...

Now for the negative. The connection cut off three times in 20 minutes. It was just a second and reconnected, but it was annoying. It reminded me of why I stopped getting bluetooth stuff.

Overall a nice fun sound that excels in sub bass and comfort with a great build. If the connection was better, it would be really nice to have. For 300$ I feel it is not worth dealing with the disconnection issues.

If you havemore questions, let me know.


----------



## gazzington

What buds are they?




capnjack said:


> This mornings set up with the Earstudio and Poweramp from my phone!
> @mbwilson111 these absolutely blow the Mk.1 rev2 out of the water, BUT at about 4-5x the price.
> You just get more of everything, air/space in soundstage, better defined bass, detailed/textured mids, sweet/crisp treble. Absolutely totl imho! Worth every penny though  I thought today would be a Runrig day, so here’s a link


----------



## chaiyuta

@RobinFood : Many thanks for your initail impression. For bluetooth stuff, I think I should wait for something using Qualcomm QCC5100 series chip.


----------



## capnjack

gazzington said:


> What buds are they?


Blur White Chocolate - they’re hand built by Wong Kuan Wae, he’s based in Singapore. You can only buy them from him directly via Facebook (Earbuds Anonymous group). He’s a really nice guy to deal with and will build you exactly what you want to your sound preferences. If you’re after a pair, just hit him up on f/b he’s normally very quick to respond, however I think he may be away at the moment.


----------



## handwander

Ignoring how much I love the sound of the panda pk2s, the shell comfort is amazing. Not sure I can buy another pair of mx500 shells.


----------



## DBaldock9

I'm setting up a Shanling M0 for a friend.
She was a teen in the '80s - and listens to some classic rock, and "hair band" hard rock - as well as some of the same Renaissance Festival bands that I listen to.
For *budget* earbuds with smaller housings, I'm planning to order some QianYun Qian39, and one of the PK style models, for her to use.

In my collection, I've got some NiceHCK DIY PK2 (White) - but is there another small-profile model that you'd recommend?

I see that @handwander mentions the Panda PK2s - are those the _2017 New DQSM Z&W Panda PK2s Earbud_, from NiceHCK?


Thanks for your insights!


----------



## Razorbud

handwander said:


> Ignoring how much I love the sound of the panda pk2s, the shell comfort is amazing. Not sure I can buy another pair of mx500 shells.



This is pretty much exactly why I’ve stopped buying a lot of the recommended earbuds over here lol. Personally, sound quality doesn’t matter to me if I don’t intend to use them or if they’re not going to be used Hahah. 

After getting an earbud with the pk2 shells, I removed all the earbuds from my aliexpress cart with the old mx500 shells hahaha


----------



## handwander

DBaldock9 said:


> I see that @handwander mentions the Panda PK2s - are those the _2017 New DQSM Z&W Panda PK2s Earbud_, from NiceHCK?


Indeed they are! 



Razorbud said:


> This is pretty much exactly why I’ve stopped buying a lot of the recommended earbuds over here lol. Personally, sound quality doesn’t matter to me if I don’t intend to use them or if they’re not going to be used Hahah.
> After getting an earbud with the pk2 shells, I removed all the earbuds from my aliexpress cart with the old mx500 shells hahaha


Feel the same way. Easy way to save money at least!


----------



## j4100

DBaldock9 said:


> For *budget* earbuds with smaller housings, I'm planning to order some QianYun Qian39, and one of the PK style models, for her to use.
> 
> In my collection, I've got some NiceHCK DIY PK2 (White) - but is there another small-profile model that you'd recommend?
> 
> ...



Other small profile buds would be the Monk Lite range and the Toneking ROS1. The ROS1 buds have an even smaller diameter than the PK2 shell. I have a pair I enjoy. 

The DSQM Panda PK2 is my go to bed pairing. Soft and strong cable.

I don't think you could wrong with of the ones you mention, or those above, depending on budget.


----------



## 40760

Razorbud said:


> This is pretty much exactly why I’ve stopped buying a lot of the recommended earbuds over here lol. Personally, sound quality doesn’t matter to me if I don’t intend to use them or if they’re not going to be used Hahah.
> 
> After getting an earbud with the pk2 shells, I removed all the earbuds from my aliexpress cart with the old mx500 shells hahaha



I'm feeling more like you these days, and won't be purchasing anything audio related for a long time...


----------



## gazzington

Ah, I thought so. I have some blur dark chocolate and they sound warm and velvety. I have them in 4.4 and use them with my sony zx300.


QUOTE="capnjack, post: 14306746, member: 376001"]Blur White Chocolate - they’re hand built by Wong Kuan Wae, he’s based in Singapore. You can only buy them from him directly via Facebook (Earbuds Anonymous group). He’s a really nice guy to deal with and will build you exactly what you want to your sound preferences. If you’re after a pair, just hit him up on f/b he’s normally very quick to respond, however I think he may be away at the moment.[/QUOTE]


----------



## jogawag (Jun 16, 2018)

palestofwhite said:


> I'm feeling more like you these days, and won't be purchasing anything audio related for a long time...


But, even after you know that PK Shell fits you, next you would search that "Which product with PK Shell is the best one for you?".
DoCoMo, Yuin PK1, Shozy Cygnus, Shozy BK, SWD2+, WillSound PK32, etc ...


----------



## capnjack

gazzington said:


> Ah, I thought so. I have some blur dark chocolate and they sound warm and velvety. I have them in 4.4 and use them with my sony zx300.
> 
> 
> QUOTE="capnjack, post: 14306746, member: 376001"]Blur White Chocolate - they’re hand built by Wong Kuan Wae, he’s based in Singapore. You can only buy them from him directly via Facebook (Earbuds Anonymous group). He’s a really nice guy to deal with and will build you exactly what you want to your sound preferences. If you’re after a pair, just hit him up on f/b he’s normally very quick to respond, however I think he may be away at the moment.


[/QUOTE]
So what’s the difference? Mine are 150ohm, and Wong described them as ‘bass-head audiophile’. I wouldn’t say they were that bassey, just enough in the bottom-end to give a full sound!


----------



## RobinFood

jogawag said:


> But, even after you know that PK Shell fits you, next you would search that "Which product with PK Shell is the best one for you?".
> DoCoMo, Yuin PK1, Shozy Cygnus, Shozy BK, SWD2+, WillSound PK32, etc ...



You fancy guys with all your pk shells! 
You should rate your favorites!


----------



## jogawag (Jun 16, 2018)

RobinFood said:


> You fancy guys with all your pk shells!
> You should rate your favorites!


# My Earbuds with PK shell, My favorite Sound order now
# Source:ONKYO DP-X1 (on ACG Balance mode)
・Shozy Cygnus (VEPad)  Clear and vivid
・Docomo Earpuds p01 [white ver & black ver] (VEPad, DonutsPad)  Clear and vivid
・Dragon2+ (Pad, DonutsPad) Clear treble, tight bass and wide sound stage
・Shozy BK (DonutsPad) Brilliant and clear sound
・Kinera Earbuds (DonutsPad)  Clear treble - mid
・Panda PK2S (DonutsPad) Clear and tight bass
・DIY MX500 PK2 (DonutsPad) Clear and good balance
・Yuin PK3 (DonutsPad)  good balance
・Docomo Cresyn DIY PK1 (DonutsPad)  good balance
・WillSounds PK32 () will be delivered tommorrow
・Yuin PK1 () I don't have


----------



## RobinFood

jogawag said:


> # My Earbuds with PK shell, My favorite Sound order now
> # Source:ONKYO DP-X1 (on ACG Balance mode)
> ・Shozy Cygnus (VEPad)  Clear and vivid
> ・Docomo Earpuds p01 [white ver & black ver] (DonutsPad)  Clear and vivid
> ...



Is it in order of favorite to least favorite?
I noticed the Cygnus before the BK, and I have heard the same thing from the Japanese blog reviewer Metal no Headphone.


----------



## snip3r77

jogawag said:


> # My Earbuds with PK shell, My favorite Sound order now
> # Source:ONKYO DP-X1 (on ACG Balance mode)
> ・Shozy Cygnus (VEPad)  Clear and vivid
> ・Docomo Earpuds p01 [white ver & black ver] (DonutsPad)  Clear and vivid
> ...


Docomo so good ??


----------



## jogawag (Jun 16, 2018)

RobinFood said:


> Is it in order of favorite to least favorite?
> I noticed the Cygnus before the BK, and I have heard the same thing from the Japanese blog reviewer Metal no Headphone.


This is in order of favorite now.



snip3r77 said:


> Docomo so good ??


Reference : [COLOR=rgb(239, 239, 239), TEXT=""]Post #31854[/COLOR], [COLOR=rgb(239, 239, 239), TEXT=""]Post #31980[/COLOR]


----------



## RobinFood

jogawag said:


> This is in order of favorite now.
> 
> 
> Reference : [COLOR=rgb(239, 239, 239), TEXT=""]Post #31854[/COLOR], [COLOR=rgb(239, 239, 239), TEXT=""]Post #31980[/COLOR]



What makes them better for you?
They really did put shozy in the spotlight when they first came out, and did make more of a splash, but the BK seems more premium and mature.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 16, 2018)

RobinFood said:


> What makes them better for you?
> They really did put shozy in the spotlight when they first came out, and did make more of a splash, but the BK seems more premium and mature.


I like clear treble.
So, I like Shozy Cygnus rather than Shozy BK.
Docomo is close to the sound trend of Shozy Cygnus.


----------



## snip3r77

jogawag said:


> This is in order of favorite now.
> 
> 
> Reference : [COLOR=rgb(239, 239, 239), TEXT=""]Post #31854[/COLOR], [COLOR=rgb(239, 239, 239), TEXT=""]Post #31980[/COLOR]


Bookmark first .

I read the 2 links but why is so good about it


----------



## jogawag

snip3r77 said:


> Bookmark first .
> 
> I read the 2 links but why is so good about it


I like clear treble.
So, I like Shozy Cygnus rather than Shozy BK.
Docomo is close to the sound trend of Shozy Cygnus.


----------



## snip3r77

jogawag said:


> I like clear treble.
> So, I like Shozy Cygnus rather than Shozy BK.
> Docomo is close to the sound trend of Shozy Cygnus.


Is it good with bass ?


----------



## jogawag (Jun 16, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> Is it good with bass ?


Shozy Cygnus and Docomo are good with bass.

Edit : Docomo need 100 hour as burn in time...


----------



## seanc6441

jogawag said:


> I like clear treble.
> So, I like Shozy Cygnus rather than Shozy BK.
> Docomo is close to the sound trend of Shozy Cygnus.


That's interesting. I've heard similar opinions before but personally I think the BK is better in almost every regard. Although the bk probably overdoes the low mid boost slightly with some EQ it can be very balanced I imagine, because it already sounds so linear, with no major peaks other than the slightly agressive lower treble, which is also fixable with EQ.

Cygnus is more peaks and dips so would be slightly more challenging to EQ but also I think it lacks finer detail and control of the bk. Imaging isn't quite as accurate either.

Just my personal opinion, i loved both while I was using them


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 16, 2018)

Mk2 is really the upgrade for EMX500 IMO, similar soundstage and tonality but better balance, more neutral extended treble. Better bass control. Gives the same sense of space without being U shaped. So vocals and instruments are placed perfectly.

Anyone looking for an upgrade of emx500 might want to try this.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 16, 2018)

@seanc6441, I think that you have NiceHCK Diy PK2 version 3.
Do you feel that Sound (trend) of Diy PK2 and Shozy Cygnus is similar?


----------



## HungryPanda

New kid in town


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 16, 2018)

jogawag said:


> @seanc6441, I think that you have NiceHCK Diy PK2 version 3.
> Do you feel that Sound (trend) of Diy PK2 and Shozy Cygnus is similar?


Pk2 is between bk and cygnus more leaning towards bk tonality but brighter and slightly less fine detail in bass and mids. Bass isn't quite is emphasised as cygnus but has more control. Bk has both control and enough emphasis. Pk2 mids are leaner than Cygnus and bk but more detail than cygnus. Treble is morr emphasised than both bk and cygnus, treble is quite nice.

Pk2 needs a long burn in and picky with foams so it can sound good with fine tuning for vocal and acoustic, but it can sound pretty dull and lifeless out of the box. Atleast that was my experience with both my pk2s I owned.

It's not a basshead earbud for for mids and treble after a long burn in it's very neutral and texture is excellent.

I need to burn in my willsound pk32 and compare, maybe burn in will save it too.


----------



## gazzington

HungryPanda said:


> New kid in town


I want!


----------



## mbwilson111

gazzington said:


> I want!



I plan to steal them in the night...


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> New kid in town


'Glorious treble' I don't know why but that made me laugh, love the description

Please do tell us if it's accurate xD


----------



## gazzington

mbwilson111 said:


> I plan to steal them in the night...


I would certainly try if I was you. They're supposed to be amazing


----------



## mbwilson111

gazzington said:


> I would certainly try if I was you. They're supposed to be amazing



The cable looks very fragile.


----------



## HungryPanda

mbwilson111 said:


> I plan to steal them in the night...


 Looks like I'm on guard tonight


----------



## seanc6441

Oh dear god I'm actually in shock at how good this sounds.

 

Regular full foam with multi hole. I'm listening to full size cans and you cannot convince me otherwise 

All the goodness of the thin mk2 foams but add layers of depth and sub bass to it. And because 50% of the vents are completely open its clear and really extended highs...

Didn't think I could be more impressed with this earbud but now I'm completely sold.


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> Oh dear god I'm actually in shock at how good this sounds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Which bud is that?


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> New kid in town



That's a 120Ω earbud?
https://penonaudio.com/sunrise-sw-dragon-ii-swd2-sr120.html


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Which bud is that?


Mk2

Got a bit carried away and forgot to mention that!


----------



## Kervsky (Jun 16, 2018)

Hello, I just got this from Penon *excited* so far this is sounding really good to me


----------



## DBaldock9

j4100 said:


> Other small profile buds would be the Monk Lite range and the Toneking ROS1. The ROS1 buds have an even smaller diameter than the PK2 shell. I have a pair I enjoy.
> 
> The DSQM Panda PK2 is my go to bed pairing. Soft and strong cable.
> 
> I don't think you could wrong with of the ones you mention, or those above, depending on budget.



Thanks for reminding me that Lee (VE Clan) has built some earbuds with smaller shells than the MX500.
I ordered a set of Monk Lite (w/3-Button Android phone control), for my friend, and myself.

The Monk Lite, the Qian39, and the DSQM Panda PK2s - will be a good start on earbuds, for my friend to use with her M0, or phone.


----------



## ShabtabQ

Is it better buying too many earbuds or one TOTL earbud?


----------



## j4100

ShabtabQ said:


> Is it better buying too many earbuds or one TOTL earbud?



Good question. For me, I have way too many earbuds, but I'm still behind some folks on here  

However, I find I need a few different buds as a minimum for different situations. 

In bed before I go to sleep - Seahf AWK-F150C or DSQM Z&W Panda PK2
At work - K's 64
Travelling - Toneking ROS1 or any of my mid range buds
At home or somewhere sitting comfortably - any of my higher end buds. Crow Audio Raven today and VE ZOE yesterday. Both amped via the VE RA2.0bl.

I guess it depends what your preference is. As long as you're enjoying the music!


----------



## HungryPanda

@DBaldock9 they are indeed 120 ohm


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 16, 2018)

Kervsky said:


> Hello, I just got this from Penon *excited* so far this is sounding really good to me



I was just looking at those earlier today.  So tempting..



ShabtabQ said:


> Is it better buying too many earbuds or one TOTL earbud?



I would rather have too many...there are some very nice inexpensive ones. If I only had one expensive bud, I would be afraid something might happen to it.



capnjack said:


> This mornings set up with the Earstudio and Poweramp from my phone!
> @mbwilson111 these absolutely blow the Mk.1 rev2 out of the water, BUT at about 4-5x the price.
> You just get more of everything, air/space in soundstage, better defined bass, detailed/textured mids, sweet/crisp treble. Absolutely totl imho! Worth every penny though  I thought today would be a Runrig day, so here’s a link




Beautiful but way too expensive for me.


----------



## chinmie

ShabtabQ said:


> Is it better buying too many earbuds or one TOTL earbud?



For me, one TOTL with the sound sig that really fits me, and a couple of other buds with complimentary sounds.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Oh dear god I'm actually in shock at how good this sounds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Now.. If i say once again that it's toe to toe with the TOTLs, would you believe me?


----------



## chinmie

HungryPanda said:


> New kid in town



It needs a friend, it needs the D2+


----------



## ClieOS

ShabtabQ said:


> Is it better buying too many earbuds or one TOTL earbud?



Not of above. You can only reach your best when you buy too many TOTL earbuds.


----------



## doggiemom

In theory, buying one TOTL set would be more economical (based on the collections of people in this thread).  In practice, there is so much variation in how they sound that I think it is best to buy too many, in an endless quest to find *your* TOTL.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 16, 2018)

ShabtabQ said:


> Is it better buying too many earbuds or one TOTL earbud?


Personal choice really. But to get one really nice one sometimes you have to test many nices ones and hope one suits your preference so it's hard to just pick one TOTL and be completely satisfied, atleast with many budget buds you get a better sense of sound signatures.



chinmie said:


> Now.. If i say once again that it's toe to toe with the TOTLs, would you believe me?


With some small EQ adjustments yes, I think it's equal SQ to lower TOTL like Masya and BS1 but with less peaks and dips so it's actually more coherent in some ways.

I'm using thicker foams with a sort of multi hole variation and this EQ





Just takes the slight bloat out of the lower mids/upper bass when using thick foams and a small amount of vocal emphasis at 2khz for clarity and 16khz for extension.

I don't EQ in very large amounts because it's difficult to keep the sound natural if you are guessing at which frequencies to change. For me the improvement on this small amount was very welcome.

It's excellent really nothing to complain about for the price. The bass is the highlight with thick foams holy extension and punchiness.

Thank you Chinmie


----------



## seanc6441

@chinmie I'm waiting for someone to mod an mk2 with pure silver cable and tell me it sounds as detailed as Rose Mojito 

This mk2 driver deserves some diy luv over at earbuds anonymous


----------



## snip3r77

ClieOS said:


> Not of above. You can only reach your best when you buy too many TOTL earbuds.


Should I get the docomo if I have a willsound?


----------



## snip3r77

chinmie said:


> It needs a friend, it needs the D2+


Wow the docomo is similar to cygnus. What do you think


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> @chinmie I'm waiting for someone to mod an mk2 with pure silver cable and tell me it sounds as detailed as Rose Mojito
> 
> This mk2 driver deserves some diy luv over at earbuds anonymous



many on the EA forum modded the cables (or got it modded directly by willy) and really like them. i myself waiting for willy to inform me whether the PK32 will benefit from upgraded cables, as i currently find myself using the PK32 the most at the moment. i also loving the MK3 that is still loaned to me, and i think i might purchase a pair with shorter balanced cable to use it with my ES100


----------



## chinmie

snip3r77 said:


> Wow the docomo is similar to cygnus. What do you think



i haven't tried the docomo yet, but between the Cygnus and the BK, i like the BK a lot more. might check the docomo if i could find them locally


----------



## ClieOS

snip3r77 said:


> Should I get the docomo if I have a willsound?



Have never listened to any Willsound's and thus have no real opinion on it.


----------



## Kervsky

mbwilson111 said:


> I was just looking at those earlier today.  So tempting..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have the Dream and it sounded good, but the BS1 is more lively and has more details, plus that rather elusive bass I wanted from the dream..


----------



## Razorbud

jogawag said:


> You can buy docomo earbuds here.
> https://www.amazon.com/Hoared-Earphone-Earplugs-Headset-Version/dp/B074KXBV6X
> 
> If you can understand Chinese or you use chrome browser, you can buy docomo earbuds here.
> ...





jogawag said:


> This is in order of favorite now.
> 
> 
> Reference : [COLOR=rgb(239, 239, 239), TEXT=""]Post #31854[/COLOR], [COLOR=rgb(239, 239, 239), TEXT=""]Post #31980[/COLOR]



Is there a difference in the taobao and amazon links? The one in the amazon link looks like it comes with the braided cable. Are they different versions with different sounds?


----------



## HungryPanda

I see the BGVP DX3 has been updated to DX3s and whereas the new earbud is £38 if you have bought them previously Penon will sell just the earpieces for £14


----------



## RuFrost

Couple days ago there was a meeting of us 3 audiolovers in my city. There are 2 docomos on the bottom of the photo (1st one). One with silver cable has dempher (which was changed from original by the owner) from Ve-foams material and another docomo is stock one. I used to own Shozy BK (and remember its sound well) and bought one recently, so it will be on the way on June 23. Also I have owned original graphenes (I mention them, because one user in this thread compared shozy bk with graphenes and said that there are not much difference between them and that graphenes is even better. So here comes my opinion:
1) Docomo with silver cable has lack of sound's fullness. Some details of the music just fly away from the back of the earbuds. Consequently, the whole sound-picture become corrupted. Docomo with white short cable sounds fine, but resolution is not impressive (especially in comparison with Zen Black). Also the feeling of influence of cheap low quality cable is strong. But overall the sound is very good. Docomo with white cable reminds Shozy BK, but not there at all. It can be said that Docomo is like not just baby Shozy BK, but (baby x 2) of BK.
2) Shozy BK and graphenes are totally different earbuds! I cannot imagine how the one can say that they are similar. Graphenes presentes the music as separate pieces which your brain must connect by itself. It is interesting experience, but no way for constant listening sessions or the only earbuds to own. They are on the analytical side with really impressive soundstage and truly fantastic detalization, probably the best to the day I have heard. Sold them after couple months. Shozy BK are very musical with not such wide and deep soundstage (due to the smaller shell) in comparison with graphenes (which has the widest stage on earbuds ever), but still soundstage is well presented and feels just enough. The resolution is really high - when you listening to them the experience is like you are driving Mercedez or drink high quality beer\wine (alcohol). You just feel the price and expensiveness of the product. So I come back to them, but never to graphenes again. 
3) To conclude, Shozy BK Stardust (especially balanced) seems like the best option for anybody to own today. It is much better to spend the money for Shozy BK and just forget about the hustle with millions other earbuds' options available on the market at any price range (probably, I will sell all my collection). Stardust plays good from any hole (dap, smartphone, lap-top, dac\amp...). The person to whom I sold those told me it became his the cheapest of his headphones (other 2 iems cost around 500$ and 1000$), but the most loved one. I currently own BS1 Official, and sincerely saying, they are impressive at the first stages, but lately, the lack of bass quantity just kills the joy. Even with added bass-boost from micro BL and thick donut foams. On BS1 it is all about soundstage, mids and highs. That's it.


----------



## jogawag (Aug 15, 2018)

Razorbud said:


> Is there a difference in the taobao and amazon links? The one in the amazon link looks like it comes with the braided cable. Are they different versions with different sounds?



I think there is "Docomo Earbuds" in the taobao and amazon both links.
But in taobao link there are too many option which confuse us, so it seems better to use amazon.

Because "Docomo Earbuds" is about 60 cm and 4pole TRRS(Hifiman Balance), extend it with the associated cable like the attached image and use it.

At AliExpress on the page of "2017-New-NICEHCK-DIY-PK2-Earbud-In-Ear-Earphone-Flat-Head-Plug-Earplugs-Headset-Earbud-Use",  there was a choice "black version 1" of "Docomo Earbuds".
But it is now sold out.

The image of the option "black version 1" on the Amazon page looks like that reduced image. So I think this is "Docomo Earbuds".

If ordered and different Earbuds came, since it is Amazon, I think that you write the reasons and you can easily return the product.

Edit :
Or, it may be better to confirm on the seller's "Robin Santiago" page before ordering.
https://www.amazon.com/sp?_encoding...rderID=&seller=AFAXP064YZWHN&tab=&vasStoreID=

Re edit:
In above amazon link, in fact only "black version 4" and "black version 5" were sold ...


----------



## Anarion

Looking for earbuds that have somewhat similar sound signature to my Sennheiser MX 760. Any recommendations? Such a shame that Sennheiser seems to produce only plug type earbuds these days...


----------



## ld100

Purchased **** DIY EMX500 from Ali as I read a few times that people like them. Right channel has a loud buzzing on the lower notes. Basically defective unit... Anyone else had that? This is my first earbuds from Ali that I got with a problem. File dispute? Contact seller?


----------



## mbwilson111

Always contact seller first.


----------



## seanc6441

ld100 said:


> Purchased **** DIY EMX500 from Ali as I read a few times that people like them. Right channel has a loud buzzing on the lower notes. Basically defective unit... Anyone else had that? This is my first earbuds from Ali that I got with a problem. File dispute? Contact seller?


contact seller and be polite hopefully they will do the right thing, if not then you can file a dispute.

emx500 is known to have QC issues before with rattling, many other earbuds have a better track record.


----------



## Yobster69

ld100 said:


> Purchased **** DIY EMX500 from Ali as I read a few times that people like them. Right channel has a loud buzzing on the lower notes. Basically defective unit... Anyone else had that? This is my first earbuds from Ali that I got with a problem. File dispute? Contact seller?


This may sound strange, but try putting your lips around the bud and sucking (like trying to suck the driver through the grill). If no success then try blowing. I’ve had a couple of units start off like this and it can be that the driver is not seated correctly, and either of these actions can help. If if doesn’t solve it then it was at least worth trying. I’ll keep my for you


----------



## 40760

Yobster69 said:


> This may sound strange, but try putting your lips around the bud and sucking (like trying to suck the driver through the grill). If no success then try blowing. I’ve had a couple of units start off like this and it can be that the driver is not seated correctly, and either of these actions can help. If if doesn’t solve it then it was at least worth trying. I’ll keep my for you



I've been using earbuds for so long, but I think you've taught me something new today...


----------



## WillSound

ld100 said:


> Purchased **** DIY EMX500 from Ali as I read a few times that people like them. Right channel has a loud buzzing on the lower notes. Basically defective unit... Anyone else had that? This is my first earbuds from Ali that I got with a problem. File dispute? Contact seller?


just suck from front driver when rettle happened, try to suck when playing some music n u hear rettle or buzzing. or just tap it gently from back housing. will be fix it.


----------



## waynes world

WillSound said:


> just suck from front driver when rettle happened, try to suck when playing some music n u hear rettle or buzzing. or just tap it gently from back housing. will be fix it.



I never thought that I would ever be sucking on my earbuds.

I read your comment this morning and thought they were kind of funny, but that the trick might come in handy some day. 

An hour after that I noticed bassy buzzing coming out of my left MK2 driver. 

One good suck later and all is good!


----------



## Narayan23

waynes world said:


> I never thought that I would ever be sucking on my earbuds.
> 
> I read your comment this morning and thought they were kind of funny, but that the trick might come in handy some day.
> 
> ...



I think Bill Clinton might agree with you Wayne 

Good to see it worked.


----------



## HungryPanda

We are all suckers for earbuds here


----------



## gazzington

Just ordered some Will sound mk2 today. It's not like I needed more buds but yet I felt I couldn't miss out on them!


----------



## Aevi

havent bothered with earbuds (or anything audio related tbh) for a while

any disposable standard to ve monk pop up yet?

any consensus for some bangers?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 17, 2018)

Aevi said:


> havent bothered with earbuds (or anything audio related tbh) for a while
> 
> any disposable standard to ve monk pop up yet?
> 
> any consensus for some bangers?


Follow in the path of the comment above yours and you shall be blessed with audio goodness 


Anarion said:


> Looking for earbuds that have somewhat similar sound signature to my Sennheiser MX 760. Any recommendations? Such a shame that Sennheiser seems to produce only plug type earbuds these days...


Since no one else answered who have heard these buds I'll just point you in the direction of the Willsound mk1/mk2/mk3. Which one you choose will be down to preference as you can read up on them by using the search function or reading back a few pages.


----------



## Carrow

So much WS discussion ITT over the last few pages, I love it!


----------



## Aevi

sounds up my alley, i like a big soundstage, but is there one w/ a mic by any chance?

I'm more of a gamer than an audiophile, i run a mayflower arc which literally has a 3.5mm mic input and can clean up some crappy mics pretty well.


----------



## ld100

What are top favorite earbuds for vocal jazz, pop and house music?


----------



## Razorbud

Aevi said:


> sounds up my alley, i like a big soundstage, but is there one w/ a mic by any chance?
> 
> I'm more of a gamer than an audiophile, i run a mayflower arc which literally has a 3.5mm mic input and can clean up some crappy mics pretty well.



I’m don’t know if any willsound earbuds with mics. For budget options with a mic, you could try the vidos. Different sound signature from the monks though. It’s quite V shaped with good bass extension. Might be what you want for gaming but I’m not sure. There are monk earbuds with a mic option as well.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 17, 2018)

Aevi said:


> sounds up my alley, i like a big soundstage, but is there one w/ a mic by any chance?
> 
> I'm more of a gamer than an audiophile, i run a mayflower arc which literally has a 3.5mm mic input and can clean up some crappy mics pretty well.


Willsound would work for gaming imo. The mk2 has a large soundstage, good imaging and a fairly balanced response with great detail and extension.

Sadly no mic as stock though.only thing I can think of is buying a small mic with cable and attaching it to your earbud cable and use the two jacks for separate input as you said your dac amp can do?

Something like this plus a 3.5 cable them just cable tie it to your earbud cable or something 




That mic looks better than anything you get on an earbud tbh... Although there may be lighter options available...


----------



## Razorbud

seanc6441 said:


> Willsound would work for gaming imo. The mk2 has a large soundstage, good imaging and a fairly balanced response with great detail and extension.
> 
> Sadly no mic as stock though.only thing I can think of is buying a small mic with cable and attaching it to your earbud cable and use the two jacks for separate input as you said your dac amp can do?
> 
> ...



I guess the other alternative would be to get an earbud cable with a mic attached and mod it to the willsound


----------



## 40760

Not sure if Willy is willing to, but I guess if he has the needed parts he can make one with the mic. No harm asking him...


----------



## SweetEars

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/samsung-akg-oem-in-ear-headphones.23170/reviews#review-20453

posted my review on the Samsung AKG phones that come with the S8/S9


----------



## ShabtabQ

SweetEars said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/samsung-akg-oem-in-ear-headphones.23170/reviews#review-20453
> 
> posted my review on the Samsung AKG phones that come with the S8/S9



I did not liked these IEM's a bit.


----------



## seanc6441

SweetEars said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/samsung-akg-oem-in-ear-headphones.23170/reviews#review-20453
> 
> posted my review on the Samsung AKG phones that come with the S8/S9


Wrong thread man


----------



## loomisjohnson

i  started dabbling in earbuds in order to avail myself of the high impedance mode on my new lg v30. i've now spent some ear time with the faaeal snow lotus 2.0 and the seafh awk f150, both of which were recommended by @HungryPanda. the seafh ($18) is generic-looking but  very competent--airy and open-sounding, with an expansive stage and good high-end detail; marred only by a slightly overdone low end and some midbass bleed--it reminds me quite a bit of the koss portapro. the faaeal ($15), otoh is quite exceptional--well-balanced/mid-forward, with just-enough tight bass and smooth but detailed on top. for whatever reason, although the form factors are almost identical i find the faaeal more comfortable and secure-fitting. highly recommended. i foresee another bad habit being fostered...


----------



## seanc6441

loomisjohnson said:


> i  started dabbling in earbuds in order to avail myself of the high impedance mode on my new lg v30. i've now spent some ear time with the faaeal snow lotus 2.0 and the seafh awk f150, both of which were recommended by @HungryPanda. the seafh ($18) is generic-looking but  very competent--airy and open-sounding, with an expansive stage and good high-end detail; marred only by a slightly overdone low end and some midbass bleed--it reminds me quite a bit of the koss portapro. the faaeal ($15), otoh is quite exceptional--well-balanced/mid-forward, with just-enough tight bass and smooth but detailed on top. for whatever reason, although the form factors are almost identical i find the faaeal more comfortable and secure-fitting. highly recommended. i foresee another bad habit being fostered...


Are you using stock foams? I recommend trying the $1 thin foams from aliexpress if you want tighter bass and more airy open mids and highs. The cheapest way to completely change the sound of your earbuds 

Some earbuds work best with thick and some with thin, best try to for yourself!


----------



## loomisjohnson

seanc6441 said:


> Are you using stock foams? I recommend trying the $1 thin foams from aliexpress if you want tighter bass and more airy open mids and highs. The cheapest way to completely change the sound of your earbuds
> 
> Some earbuds work best with thick and some with thin, best try to for yourself!


i'll try 'em--it surprises me they can have so much effect.


----------



## seanc6441

loomisjohnson said:


> i'll try 'em--it surprises me they can have so much effect.


Here's a link to them

100 Pcs Black Sponge Earbud Headphone Cap Ear Pads Cover Replacement
http://s.aliexpress.com/mI7vMvA7?


----------



## loomisjohnson

I quote the following per the ad (emphasis added):
Package Content :

100(Â±2%) x Ear Pad Cover 100 Pcs Black Sponge Earbud Headphone Cap Ear Pads Cover Replacement
High-quality high-density foam covers/ear pads.
Good for replacing your worn-out or lost ear pads.
Fit most earbud-style earphones with 13-18mm in diameter.
Soft, durable and comfortable.
Potentially increase wearing comfort, enhance sound quality andength
1.7 m approx Instructions for use
*Changing the water that came with the suction pipe immersed in a fish tank 4-5 inch up and down shaking the water several times until the tank is automatically discharged
Package included:

*
*1 x Fish Tank Vacuum*

If they don't reduce the midbass I can give use them in my Koi pond...


----------



## jogawag

loomisjohnson said:


> I quote the following per the ad (emphasis added):
> Package Content :
> 
> 100(Â±2%) x Ear Pad Cover 100 Pcs Black Sponge Earbud Headphone Cap Ear Pads Cover Replacement
> ...





If you need red version, here is a link.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32823010205.html


----------



## ShabtabQ (Jun 18, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Are you using stock foams? I recommend trying the $1 thin foams from aliexpress if you want tighter bass and more airy open mids and highs. The cheapest way to completely change the sound of your earbuds
> 
> Some earbuds work best with thick and some with thin, best try to for yourself!



Delete please.


----------



## seanc6441

loomisjohnson said:


> I quote the following per the ad (emphasis added):
> Package Content :
> 
> 100(Â±2%) x Ear Pad Cover 100 Pcs Black Sponge Earbud Headphone Cap Ear Pads Cover Replacement
> ...


Nice spot LMAO


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> Put some bluetooth cables on them, and you have yourself a good balanced sounding wireless buds (a rare sound sig among the cheap buds, especially the wireless ones)



Well, it only took 55 days to get here since "leaving country of origin", but finally I have a balanced cable. First time I've listened to anything balanced!


----------



## HungryPanda

The more and more I listen to these Sunrise SW Dragon II the wider my smile gets


----------



## redkingjoe

RuFrost said:


> 2) Shozy BK are very musical with not such wide and deep soundstage (due to the smaller shell) in comparison with graphenes (which has the widest stage on earbuds ever), but still soundstage is well presented and feels just enough. The resolution is really high - when you listening to them the experience is like you are driving Mercedez or drink high quality beer\wine (alcohol). You just feel the price and expensiveness of the product. So I come back to them, but never to graphenes again.
> 3) To conclude, Shozy BK Stardust (especially balanced) seems like the best option for anybody to own today. It is much better to spend the money for Shozy BK and just forget about the hustle with millions other earbuds' options available on the market at any price range (probably, I will sell all my collection). Stardust plays good from any hole (dap, smartphone, lap-top, dac\amp...).
> ]



Well said!

I like my Shozy BK. But I love my Shozy BK limited!

I keep going back to these two earbuds whenever I wanna enjoy music!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

New reviews coming in the next few weeks.


----------



## subwoof3r

Can someone please make a quick comparison between FAAEAL Snow Lotus 2 and Willsound MK2 (rev2) ?
Are they an upgrade to the willsounds or a downgrade ? those Faael looks very good from the few impressions I can read here.
Anyway for the price I guess I'm very tempted.


----------



## noknok23

BloodyPenguin said:


> New reviews coming in the next few weeks.


Still enjoying the swd2plus, I think they are very well tuned. Not only they are nicely balanced but they're musical and technical at the same time: forgiving enough for poorly produced music and transparent for highly mastered sounds.
Also, zero ear fatigue even after a day of use at moderate volume. A first for me.
 I use an amp and the included hiegi donuts foams.
I think I'll now start to look for a nice IEM to complete my earbuds collection 
(Please PM me if you think you know something I could like. I'm completely lost will all the offer)


----------



## RuFrost

redkingjoe said:


> Well said!
> 
> I like my Shozy BK. But I love my Shozy BK limited!
> 
> I keep going back to these two earbuds whenever I wanna enjoy music!


which one do you like better? Do you think LE worth upgrade? I mean...it is around 200$ extra of standard version BK.


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Well, it only took 55 days to get here since "leaving country of origin", but finally I have a balanced cable. First time I've listened to anything balanced!



Some buds benefits from balanced a lot, while some only a little. On the ES100, i feel the balanced are more superior than the single end output. What do you think about the svara with balanced? Also try it with your other mmcx buds and iem, some might surprise you


----------



## 40760

I'm loving the MK1 the longer its burning in... the sound is finally settling in nicely and boy that bass!


----------



## capnjack

palestofwhite said:


> I'm loving the MK1 the longer its burning in... the sound is finally settling in nicely and boy that bass!


Mk1 is mightily impressive


----------



## RobinFood (Jun 19, 2018)

Well, I finally caved and got an MK2.
The tipping point really was the fact that I could ask for a 40 cm cable, so now I can save up on clean up when at my pc, using an extension anyways, or save on some tangle when I use a clip player on my collar when I am out of the house.
I hope it will be a step up from the Yincrow X6 I've been using all this time. I really like the sound, just not as much as my ER4XRs.

Now the waiting game begins :S


----------



## waynes world

subwoof3r said:


> Can someone please make a quick comparison between FAAEAL Snow Lotus 2 and Willsound MK2 (rev2) ?
> Are they an upgrade to the willsounds or a downgrade ? those Faael looks very good from the few impressions I can read here.
> Anyway for the price I guess I'm very tempted.





chinmie said:


> Some buds benefits from balanced a lot, while some only a little. On the ES100, i feel the balanced are more superior than the single end output. What do you think about the svara with balanced? Also try it with your other mmcx buds and iem, some might surprise you



I haven't done any critical listening or comparing yet of the Svara's balanced vs unbalanced. At this point all I know is that they sound fantastic either way.

I know which "other" buds you are referring to though. You've got me excited about trying the PT15's balanced. The new cable is very nice, but I find that the stock Svara L cable works better for "over ear" wearing, so if I don't hear a huge difference in sound, then the cable very well become devoted to the PT15's.

Now all I need to do is to come up with a balanced cable for the Nighthawks and 1more triple driver headphones, but that's a discussion for another thread or two 

Oh, and find out how to get the MK2's balanced!


----------



## waynes world

RobinFood said:


> Well, I finally caved and got an MK2.
> The tipping point really was the fact that I could ask for a 40 cm cable,



Huh! Do you know if you could ask for a 40 cm cable with balanced 2.5mm ttrs connector?


----------



## Narayan23 (Jun 19, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> Can someone please make a quick comparison between *FAAEAL Snow Lotus 2 *and Willsound MK2 (rev2) ?
> Are they an upgrade to the willsounds or a downgrade ? those Faael looks very good from the few impressions I can read here.
> Anyway for the price I guess I'm very tempted.



All I can say is if Hungry Panda recommended them to Loomis Johnson and then Loomis highly recommends them himself I´m in.

https://media.giphy.com/media/FKhKMphSgp1Ac/giphy.gif

Just do like Dean Martin and let it Snow...Lotus 2, they do look like price to performance champs.


----------



## 40760

If I'm not wrong, some of the Willsounds do come in 2.5mm balanced...


----------



## waynes world

Narayan23 said:


> All I can say is if Hungry Panda recommended them to Loomis Johnson and then Loomis highly recommends them himself I´m in.
> 
> https://media.giphy.com/media/FKhKMphSgp1Ac/giphy.gif
> 
> Just do like Dean Martin and let it Snow...Lotus 2, they do look like price to performance champs.



Yup, the Snow Lotus 2.0's are great. But imo the MK2's are a definite upgrade in pretty much all aspects.


----------



## waynes world

palestofwhite said:


> If I'm not wrong, some of the Willsounds do come in 2.5mm balanced...



Huh - I did not know that! Thanks. If I get another MK?, then I will consider it for sure.


----------



## jogawag

palestofwhite said:


> If I'm not wrong, some of the Willsounds do come in 2.5mm balanced...


http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone?page=1
http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone?page=2


----------



## waynes world

jogawag said:


> http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone?page=1
> http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone?page=2



Thanks. I see the MK1 2.5mm and the MK3 2.5mm. This might be a dumb question, but does that mean that the cable is for sure "balanced"?


----------



## j4100

Hmmm. I don't have a Mk3 yet...


----------



## RobinFood

waynes world said:


> Huh! Do you know if you could ask for a 40 cm cable with balanced 2.5mm ttrs connector?



I asked that question when I asked if you could get that custom length and was told that he can make it balanced for +5$, to cover the cost of the parts.

Ultimately though I have nothing that uses 2.5mm and no 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter, so decided to pass.


----------



## waynes world

RobinFood said:


> I asked that question when I asked if you could get that custom length and was told that he can make it balanced for +5$, to cover the cost of the parts.



Thanks!



> Ultimately though I have nothing that uses 2.5mm and no 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter, so decided to pass.



Here are the solutions to all of your problems! 

https://www.amazon.com/EarStudio-ES100-High-Resolution-Bluetooth-Headphone/dp/B078H4YD2L

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fii...aptor-Cable-for-x7-headphone/32810551272.html


----------



## jogawag

jogawag said:


> http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone?page=1
> http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone?page=2





waynes world said:


> Thanks. I see the MK1 2.5mm and the MK3 2.5mm. This might be a dumb question, but does that mean that the cable is for sure "balanced"?


@WillSound, Do MK1 2.5mm and the MK3 2.5mm have the cable for "balanced"?
And is there the MK2 2.5mm which have the cable for "balanced"?


----------



## seanc6441

I think 2.5mm is a balanced only connection. All devices with 2.5mm jacks must be balanced afaik.


----------



## Narayan23

waynes world said:


> Yup, the Snow Lotus 2.0's are great. But imo the MK2's are a definite upgrade in pretty much all aspects.



I now realize the reason for the name Willsound because it sounds like my will is about to be broken...again. I´m trying to resist and have already asked my family to tie me to a post like a modern day Odysseus, but I think the Siren songs will get to me eventually.


----------



## waynes world

Narayan23 said:


> I now realize the reason for the name Willsound because it sounds like my will is about to be broken...again. I´m trying to resist and have already asked my family to tie me to a post like a modern day Odysseus, but I think the Siren songs will get to me eventually.



My will is constantly broken here. I don't think I have any any more of it. All I'm doing is "paying it forward" (also known as "pay back" hehe).

Seriously though, the MK2's are worth getting your will broken over


----------



## seanc6441

Anyone here have the Willsound mk2 rev.2 SE? Or have a custom cable on their Willsound? Curious about the SE version because the stock version is so good that I'm wondering  if the SE sounds any better?


----------



## redkingjoe

RuFrost said:


> which one do you like better? Do you think LE worth upgrade? I mean...it is around 200$ extra of standard version BK.



I like the BK LE much much better! 

To me, it’s worth the upgrade coz I would prefer listening to LE naturally. However, the BK can satisfy me for now.

I’m not in a position to give an opinion for upgrading or not. My source is not the state of the art! I’m only using iPad2 to watch YouTube movies and tv.

I’m certain that an audiophile source will give a bigger difference for discerning the quality of BK and BK LE!


----------



## seanc6441

redkingjoe said:


> I like the BK LE much much better!
> 
> To me, it’s worth the upgrade coz I would prefer listening to LE naturally. However, the BK can satisfy me for now.
> 
> ...


Is it the same signature with more detail? Or are you noticing more treble/sub bass or soundstage difference?


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> I think 2.5mm is a balanced only connection. All devices with 2.5mm jacks must be balanced afaik.


This is true.  TRRS to SE adapters are relatively cheap and easy to find (for example, if you buy a 3.5 or 2.5 mm balanced product from VE they ship an adapter to 3.5 mm SE along with your purchase), so I've defaulted to buying any buds available in TRRS in that format for versatility.  TRRS to TRRS adapters are more difficult to procure and more expensive...... I just spend way too much on a 2.5mm to 4-pin XLR adapter from Moon Audio, but it is really nice and seems very robust.  I wish that Rholupat had carried the 2.5 mm TRRS Wilsounds when I ordered them.


----------



## snip3r77

jogawag said:


> http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone?page=1
> http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone?page=2


I think removable would be better like pt15


----------



## jogawag

snip3r77 said:


> I think removable would be better like pt15


I recommend that you send PM directly to @WillSound  and talk to @WillSound.


----------



## 40760

I remember checking with them before and those Willsounds in 2.5mm are indeed in balanced configurations, despite not being mentioned in description.


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> Anyone here have the Willsound mk2 rev.2 SE? Or have a custom cable on their Willsound? Curious about the SE version because the stock version is so good that I'm wondering  if the SE sounds any better?



I’ve checked with Willy a couple of times and he mentioned it’s “a bit different sounding”. That’s all I could dig. The last batch of SE was sold out, so I kindly asked him to keep me updated if he eventually makes them...


----------



## waynes world

snip3r77 said:


> I think removable would be better like pt15



Yes, that would be excellent. Any chance of mmcx connections in the future @WillSound ?


----------



## WillSound

WillSound with mmcx now still not possible, WillSound wuth 2.5mm trrs balance plug yes i have. thanks.


----------



## gazzington

Looking at aliexpress parts that make up earbuds. Anybody here tried making their own?


----------



## seanc6441

WillSound said:


> WillSound with mmcx now still not possible, WillSound wuth 2.5mm trrs balance plug yes i have. thanks.


Hey what's the difference in tuning with the mk2 r.2 vs mk2 r.2 SE? Just incase you make some more I'd like to be informed when I pull the trigger


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> Hey what's the difference in tuning with the mk2 r.2 vs mk2 r.2 SE? Just incase you make some more I'd like to be informed when I pull the trigger



Please count me in as well...


----------



## noknok23

gazzington said:


> Looking at aliexpress parts that make up earbuds. Anybody here tried making their own?


There is this thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327


----------



## 40760

Asura 2.0s? Or AOE?


----------



## DBaldock9

When I ordered a used LG V20 from an Amazon vendor, I saw the same "Shipping Label Created, USPS Awaiting Item" Tracking Info for a week - so I contacted the vendor, and asked that they verify that the package had actually been delivered to the USPS, for shipment.  They checked, and then issued a Refund, saying that they didn't know what had happened to the shipment.
.
If the vendor can't provide proof that they delivered the package to the USPS, then the problem isn't with the delivery service - since they can't deliver something that they never received...


----------



## 40760

Trust me... it seems like first world postal services are mostly BS...

It's developing nations like China that has efficient logistics...


----------



## RobinFood

palestofwhite said:


> Trust me... it seems like first world postal services are mostly BS...
> 
> It's developing nations like China that has efficient logistics...



In Japan, everything is next day nationally.
I also love ordering stuff from the UK, Royal Post is usually 5 days or so.
Everything else just kills me, but Aliexpress stuff is usually faster than Amazon.ca was when I lived in Canada.

On that note, my MK2 shipped out!
How long did it take other head-fi-ers in Asia to get your Willsounds?
I guess I will be checking the tracking a few hundred times a day for the next few weeks!


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 20, 2018)

RobinFood said:


> I also love ordering stuff from the UK, Royal Post is usually 5 days or so.



We can't get anything from Japan that quickly... and when we do get it we are hit by customs on anything that is valued at more than £16.  If something is valued at £20 we end up owing £4 VAT which does not sound too band except there is a Royal Mail handling fee added that is another £8.... so suddenly that £20 item costs £32.  DHL is worse... they add an extra £11.


----------



## 40760

RobinFood said:


> On that note, my MK2 shipped out! How long did it take other head-fi-ers in Asia to get your Willsounds? I guess I will be checking the tracking a few hundred times a day for the next few weeks!



Even being a close neighbour of Indonesia, it takes about 10 working days after the item leaves Indonesia, on top of about a week for them to process internally. So roughly about 2 weeks or longer...


----------



## Carrow

DBaldock9 said:


> When I ordered a used LG V20 from an Amazon vendor, I saw the same "Shipping Label Created, USPS Awaiting Item" Tracking Info for a week - so I contacted the vendor, and asked that they verify that the package had actually been delivered to the USPS, for shipment.  They checked, and then issued a Refund, saying that they didn't know what had happened to the shipment.
> .
> If the vendor can't provide proof that they delivered the package to the USPS, then the problem isn't with the delivery service - since they can't deliver something that they never received...



I sent the money as a business payment anyway so I get the refund if they don't show up


----------



## rkw (Jun 20, 2018)

USPS said a shipping label was created but they have not received the item. Have you followed up with the seller? Looks like the seller never actually shipped it.


----------



## Carrow (Jun 20, 2018)

rkw said:


> USPS said a shipping label was created but they have not received the item. Have you followed up with the seller? Looks like the seller never actually shipped it.



oh is THAT what that means

whoops

I think I need to escalate this OK, I've given him an ultimatum that if he doesn't provide concrete proof of shipment/evidence that the package is in transit by midnight on Friday I'm opening a case against him. This is some horsecrap and he really picked the wrong month to try something like this.


----------



## groucho69

RobinFood said:


> In Japan, everything is next day nationally.
> I also love ordering stuff from the UK, Royal Post is usually 5 days or so.
> Everything else just kills me, but Aliexpress stuff is usually faster than Amazon.ca was when I lived in Canada.
> 
> ...



Amazon.ca is the fastest delivery for me. I have no idea what you are talking about.


----------



## waynes world

groucho69 said:


> Amazon.ca is the fastest delivery for me. I have no idea what you are talking about.



Yeah, I think that most of the stuff that I buy from amazon.ca is already in Canada (or at least North America), and the shipping quite fast. Sometimes the product is showing as not being available or ready to ship for quite some time, but I always know of that before ordering and can choose to look elsewhere if I like.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

ClieOS said:


> The longest wait I have with earphone order from China is about 8 months.
> 
> The pacakge took a month to travel, but it landed on the wrong continent (Africa instead of S.E.Asia), sat there in the wrong country's for over 3 months waiting, then they finally resent the package out - but only by the cheapest possible way, which is by sea, and that took a few more months to arrive.
> 
> Beat that!


HAHAHAHAH! I hope you got your money back for them.


----------



## kw8910

Got my mk2.2 and pk32 in today. Thanks Willy!


----------



## snip3r77

kw8910 said:


> Got my mk2.2 and pk32 in today. Thanks Willy!


Looks like Panda


----------



## RobinFood

kw8910 said:


> Got my mk2.2 and pk32 in today. Thanks Willy!



What is the difference between the MK2 and the MK2.2? Are they all 2.2 now?


----------



## jogawag (Jun 21, 2018)

kw8910 said:


> Got my mk2.2 and pk32 in today. Thanks Willy!


I also got WillSound mk2.2 and pk32.
They sounds relaxed treble-mid and sufficient deep bass.
But "pk32" needs attention, because "pk32 takes 4 days for burn-in (sound signature changed several times).


----------



## snip3r77

jogawag said:


> I also got WillSound mk2.2 and pk32.
> They sounds relaxed treble-mid and sufficient deep bass.
> But "pk32" needs attention, because "pk32 takes 4 days for burn-in (sound signature changed several times).


I have mk 3 should I get mk1 or 2 ? I feel it will only be sidegrading


----------



## kw8910

snip3r77 said:


> Looks like Panda


yea same white pk shell except the front plate isn't shiny like the panda.



RobinFood said:


> What is the difference between the MK2 and the MK2.2? Are they all 2.2 now?


rev. 2 on all the MK's is suppose to have less bass but more details. I don't have Rev 1 but MK2 rev. 2 has enough bass/mid-bass for me. They sound great out of the box.



jogawag said:


> I also got WillSound mk2.2 and pk32.
> They sounds relaxed treble-mid and sufficient deep bass.
> But "pk32" needs attention, because "pk32 takes 4 days for burn-in (sound signature changed several times).



At first listen the PK32 is very light in bass and somewhat veiled, but not to the point where I think it's a defect. The lack of bass was my main concern from recent reviews. And you're right, the sound does change (Willy says it needs 100 hours!), got about 7 hours burn in so far and they're sounding better, more coherent.  These need to be well amped too, more so than the MK2. Used it with the ES100 by itself and it wasn't enough. Bass sounds fuller and more balanced with amp... not basshead level but enough for most genres. I'm looking forward to hearing more changes as it progresses


----------



## jogawag (Jun 21, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> I have mk 3 should I get mk1 or 2 ? I feel it will only be side-grading


I don't have mk1 and 3.
I think mk1 and 2 are side-grading too.
Please read Product Description links below.
http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone/willsound-mk1-rev-2.html
http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone/willsound-mk2-new-b.atch.html
http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone/willsound-mk3.html


----------



## 40760

If you need to know, MK2 & 3 are more similar than compared to MK1.


----------



## Slmes (Jun 21, 2018)

RobinFood said:


> In Japan, everything is next day nationally.
> I also love ordering stuff from the UK, Royal Post is usually 5 days or so.
> Everything else just kills me, but Aliexpress stuff is usually faster than Amazon.ca was when I lived in Canada.
> 
> ...


I'm live in Vietnam, I ordered my MK2 in June 3rd from rholupat and I received it today, June 21 in my country.


----------



## chinmie

I've just took out my MK2 for a listen.. maybe my preference shifted as now to me (even with thin foams) the bass is too much for me for long listening sessions. with one song though, it is still IM. .. PRESIVE... 

my most favorite Willsound now is the PK32 (also my most used earbuds this past month), followed by the MK3. the PK32 is more "bookshelf monitor speaker" correct in tuning for me. the bass has clear fundamental note, the kick drum is snappy and doesn't tail (no boomy-ness at all). the soundstage is more spread out to the side, while the MKs is more spherical and cavernous like listening to cinema sound system. that's why i still choose the MK2 as my movie earbuds. and the most important thing for me is that vocals feels dead centered and special with the PK32. it makes you want to listen to the lyrics without being bloated in the mid frequency. 

i got a chance to test some moondrop iems last month, and the PK32 is similarly tuned and can stand toe to toe with moondrop A4(it's 4BA and most expensive flagship) . if i didn't have the PK32 when i auditioned it i might have ended purchasing the A4 

mind you, this is an opinion from someone who lately listens extensively to the Etymotic iems that most people would find thin in bass (although from what I've read on the Ety forum, those who have them don't feel the bass lacking)


----------



## RobinFood (Jun 21, 2018)

chinmie said:


> I've just took out my MK2 for a listen.. maybe my preference shifted as now to me (even with thin foams) the bass is too much for me for long listening sessions. with one song though, it is still IM. .. PRESIVE...
> 
> my most favorite Willsound now is the PK32 (also my most used earbuds this past month), followed by the MK3. the PK32 is more "bookshelf monitor speaker" correct in tuning for me. the bass has clear fundamental note, the kick drum is snappy and doesn't tail (no boomy-ness at all). the soundstage is more spread out to the side, while the MKs is more spherical and cavernous like listening to cinema sound system. that's why i still choose the MK2 as my movie earbuds. and the most important thing for me is that vocals feels dead centered and special with the PK32. it makes you want to listen to the lyrics without being bloated in the mid frequency.
> 
> ...



Chinmie, please don't!
I just ordered the MK2, and LOVE the Ety sound!
You're going to make me order the PK32!!!
Does it sub-bass on level with your ER4XRs?
Gah! I'm asking questions again!


----------



## redkingjoe

seanc6441 said:


> Is it the same signature with more detail? Or are you noticing more treble/sub bass or soundstage difference?



As my gear is not up to standard, I can only tell you that the BK LE sounds better to my ears! I use these earbuds in library, gym, or on the move!

I usually listen to my hifi when I do critical listening!


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> Chinmie, please don't!
> I just ordered the MK2, and LOVE the Ety sound!
> You're going to make me order the PK32!!!
> Does it sub-bass on level with your ER4XRs?
> Gah! I'm asking questions again!



now i'm on the fence here, should i answer or should i be silent and save the contents of your wallet....


----------



## redkingjoe

Hey guys,

Which one is the best TOTL earbuds with detachable cable?

I am looking for one that is as good as Shozy Bk with small shell!


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> now i'm on the fence here, should i answer or should i be silent and save the contents of your wallet....



I just wish it wasn't so dividing. Some people love it, some hate it...I guess it really is like Etymotic IEMs!
I never liked too much bass until I got the ER4XRs to be honest. I love that sub-bass rumble they provide without bleeding in the mids.


----------



## subwoof3r

Finally received my new WIllsound PK32 replacement pair from Willy today ! (after almost 20 days)
My box arrived completely squashed and damaged, fortunately, the earbuds themselves survived due to Willy's package 

I had a quick listen before going to work and ...... guess what ???
My new PK32 pair is just incredible !! this is an absolute dream !
Bass is finally here !! so definitely my previous one had a problem. Even soundstage is much better, mids and highs too.

This new PK32 is right out of the box already my best WIllsound pair ever (even MK2 rev2) !
Loving the whole frequency, it's more refined and now I understand the analogue sound they produce (that someone said here previously).
What an incredible tuning...  stunning !

I will do a proper review once fully burned, but they sound already excellent to me from the first few minutes I past with them.
By waiting, I definitely join the comment above from @chinmie about PK32. This is exactly how I feel too compared to MK2.2.

Thank you so much @WillSound ! you made my day 
Cheers'


----------



## seanc6441

redkingjoe said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Which one is the best TOTL earbuds with detachable cable?
> 
> I am looking for one that is as good as Shozy Bk with small shell!


Personally I think EQ'd Rose Mojito is very impressive. Infact mojito is a great contrast to the BK with excellent end to end extension at the cost of a slightly thinner mid range. Massive soundstage too. EQ I find fixes some glaring issues in tonality and restores full natural vocal quality. Kills the two major peaks/dips also.

Maybe also one of the Zen detachable variants? The Zen Lite Shining version seems really well received but I haven't heard it myself. Just read some posts on EA and VE facebook group.


----------



## seanc6441

subwoof3r said:


> Finally received my new WIllsound PK32 replacement pair from Willy today ! (after almost 20 days)
> My box arrived completely squashed and damaged, fortunately, the earbuds themselves survived due to Willy's package
> 
> I had a quick listen before going to work and ...... guess what ???
> ...


Phew that's a relief, my pk32 hasnt changed after burn in, ill also have to ask willy for a replacement and I'm glad you're new one is impressing you!


----------



## subwoof3r

seanc6441 said:


> Phew that's a relief, my pk32 hasnt changed after burn in, ill also have to ask willy for a replacement and I'm glad you're new one is impressing you!


Definitely, I advice you to make an exchange with Willy, clearly we have the exact same issue on our first PK32 pair unfortunately. Hopefully your next will be as good as mine too
You can trust me but your future PK32 pair will also be your new king of earbuds very soon ^^


----------



## 40760

subwoof3r said:


> Finally received my new WIllsound PK32 replacement pair from Willy today ! (after almost 20 days)
> My box arrived completely squashed and damaged, fortunately, the earbuds themselves survived due to Willy's package
> 
> I had a quick listen before going to work and ...... guess what ???
> ...



Congrats! My replacement PK32 just left Indonesia...


----------



## neuromancer (Jun 21, 2018)

palestofwhite said:


> Congrats! My replacement PK32 just left Indonesia...


Did you guys order your Willsounds through Rholupat or from Willy directly? Rholupat has been out of the PK32 and MK2 v2 for awhile.


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> I just wish it wasn't so dividing. Some people love it, some hate it...I guess it really is like Etymotic IEMs!
> I never liked too much bass until I got the ER4XRs to be honest. I love that sub-bass rumble they provide without bleeding in the mids.



yes, at this time it's so dividing to a point that i almost hesitant to say my impressions on the PK32, especially concerning the bass amount. but @subwoof3r latest unit confirms it that the lack of bass is because of defect.

regarding your previous question, compared to the ER4XR, the PK32 has a warmer overall tone with a slightly smoother treble and a more enveloping bass. usually when I'm switching fast from earbuds to iems (or the other way around) the difference in character is a bit jarring that i need to adapt the ears quite a bit. there's no problem switching between these two



subwoof3r said:


> Finally received my new WIllsound PK32 replacement pair from Willy today ! (after almost 20 days)
> My box arrived completely squashed and damaged, fortunately, the earbuds themselves survived due to Willy's package
> 
> I had a quick listen before going to work and ...... guess what ???
> ...



I'm really glad for you! and just in time! as i said to RobinFood, i started to feel hesitant to say anything about the PK32 because of difference of sound. let it have some hours of play, the midbass will mature more, making the sound separation better


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> I've just took out my MK2 for a listen.. maybe my preference shifted as now to me (even with thin foams) the bass is too much for me for long listening sessions. with one song though, it is still IM. .. PRESIVE...



Correct me if I am wrong, but you have the original MK2, which is bassier than the MK2 rev2, correct?


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but you have the original MK2, which is bassier than the MK2 rev2, correct?



Yup. Mine have bigger bass than the current rev2 version


----------



## kw8910

chinmie said:


> I've just took out my MK2 for a listen.. maybe my preference shifted as now to me (even with thin foams) the bass is too much for me for long listening sessions. with one song though, it is still IM. .. PRESIVE...
> 
> my most favorite Willsound now is the PK32 (also my most used earbuds this past month), followed by the MK3. the PK32 is more "bookshelf monitor speaker" correct in tuning for me. the bass has clear fundamental note, the kick drum is snappy and doesn't tail (no boomy-ness at all). the soundstage is more spread out to the side, while the MKs is more spherical and cavernous like listening to cinema sound system. that's why i still choose the MK2 as my movie earbuds. and the most important thing for me is that vocals feels dead centered and special with the PK32. it makes you want to listen to the lyrics without being bloated in the mid frequency.
> 
> ...



Have to agree here, at first I preferred the MK2 over PK32 with its separation, clarity and bass but the PK32 has really caught up (and opened up) after some usage. I could use more sub-bass on it but vocals are sweet and natural, MK2 is recessed in comparison. Also, to me the form factor can't be beat..love pk shells! This is one of the more satisfying purchases lately..


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> Yup. Mine have bigger bass than the current rev2 version



Kinda makes you want to try the rev2's, doesn't it?  

It seems like the _good _PK32's are worth considering. They are not available in 2.5mm balanced, are they?


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Kinda makes you want to try the rev2's, doesn't it?
> 
> It seems like the _good _PK32's are worth considering. They are not available in 2.5mm balanced, are they?



I have tried it, as Willy's demo buds are currently still at my house.. All with balanced jacks . Between the MK2 rev1 and rev2, i still prefer the rev1, in fact because of the monstrous bass. Between the rev2, surprisingly i prefer the MK3.

My PK32 is single ended, but i think you can ask for a balanced version


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> I have tried it, as Willy's demo buds are currently still at my house.. All with balanced jacks . Between the MK2 rev1 and rev2, i still prefer the rev1, in fact because of the monstrous bass. Between the rev2, surprisingly i prefer the MK3.
> 
> My PK32 is single ended, but i think you can ask for a balanced version



Thanks! All very interesting and very confusing lol!

The good thing for me at the moment is that I'm very content with the MK2 rev2's, and Svara L's (32 ohms), the PT15's (balanced), a few obscure budget buds that a friend got me, and the 1more TDOE headphones. So I can just chill for a while and enjoy


----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> Thanks! All very interesting and very confusing lol!
> 
> The good thing for me at the moment is that I'm very content with the MK2 rev2's, and Svara L's (32 ohms), the PT15's (balanced), a few obscure budget buds that a friend got me, and the 1more TDOE headphones. So I can just chill for a while and enjoy



Are the 32Ω Svara L earbuds that you have, the one's that list two or three different impedances on the on the AliExpress page?
It had me baffled, as far as what the actual load is...


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> Are the 32Ω Svara L earbuds that you have, the one's that list two or three different impedances on the on the AliExpress page?
> It had me baffled, as far as what the actual load is...



These are the ones I purchased:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...or-Earbud-Earphone-With-MMCX/32810127070.html


----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> These are the ones I purchased:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...or-Earbud-Earphone-With-MMCX/32810127070.html



OK, they're consistent on that page.
The page I was looking at, has the title "2018 New Svara PRO Upgraded", and lists multiple, different values for both the impedance (20Ω & 64Ω) and the frequency response (8Hz-25KHz & 15Hz-22KHz).

They also indicate, via a photo, that the new model has a different colored metal vent -


----------



## Aevi

ive wanted to try out the mk2s but i cant find em anywhere so

can anyone recommend me some earbuds that have good soundstage/imaging? preferably under $50 cuz i have too much headphones n stuff


----------



## waynes world

Aevi said:


> ive wanted to try out the mk2s but i cant find em anywhere so
> 
> can anyone recommend me some earbuds that have good soundstage/imaging? preferably under $50 cuz i have too much headphones n stuff



You'll get lots of answers! You could try one of the other MK's (MK1 or MK3), but I couldn't tell you which ones lol. The Svara L's (32ohms) are fantastic, but are $58 here. Excellent soundstage and imaging. Very deep and detailed bass with good bass kick, but not too much mid-bass, lovely detailed highs, slightly V shaped signature. Really awesome for electronic music (but great for everything else as well). They are also built very well, look great, and are a nice departure from the typical MX500 shells.


----------



## Carrow

Carrow said:


> oh is THAT what that means
> 
> whoops
> 
> I think I need to escalate this OK, I've given him an ultimatum that if he doesn't provide concrete proof of shipment/evidence that the package is in transit by midnight on Friday I'm opening a case against him. This is some horsecrap and he really picked the wrong month to try something like this.



UPDATE: So the guy had included some sweets and additional buds in the package that he didn't declare when posting it, so that's why it was held for 3 weeks! All been resolved now, should be on the way tonight


----------



## FauDrei

Got MK2's today.

First listen thoughts - clear, spacious, "naturally warm" so very non-fatiguing and inviting listen.

...but... can anyone tell me how to fit those in my ear?

Have not had earbuds for more than 20 years (circumaural full-sizes or IEMs kind of guy). They seem to thick and big to fit in my ears. Foam irritates me, no foam does not stay in place... and a slight in ear position change of those make quite substantial sound change.

Thanks in advance for any useful advice.


----------



## toear

Anyone care to compare any of the willsounds with the HE 150 PRO?

Sidegrade or upgrade?

Thanks!


----------



## chinmie

FauDrei said:


> Got MK2's today.
> 
> First listen thoughts - clear, spacious, "naturally warm" so very non-fatiguing and inviting listen.
> 
> ...



Hmmm... There's no other way around it besides wearing them until it fits the ear, i guess.. 
The first time i use mx500 type shell, i can only wear them for 20 minutes tops, because it barely fits. but now i can wear them to sleep.

I can only suggest this if you can wear them no problem with no foams. If it still hurts and barely fits even without foams, i would suggest using smaller shell like the PK shells.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 21, 2018)

FauDrei said:


> Got MK2's today.
> 
> First listen thoughts - clear, spacious, "naturally warm" so very non-fatiguing and inviting listen.
> 
> ...


Method 1 - To endure it until you get used to it.
Method 2 - Use a thin foam.
Method 3 - Purchase PK32 again.
Method 4 - Sell MK2, and forget it as if it was not there from the beginning.


----------



## waynes world

FauDrei said:


> Got MK2's today.
> 
> First listen thoughts - clear, spacious, "naturally warm" so very non-fatiguing and inviting listen.
> 
> ...



Yup, smaller shells for you. PK32's. Maybe VE lite variants. I really like the monk lite 120's, but the Zen lites are probably very good (I assume they also use the smaller shells).


----------



## FauDrei

Thanks for suggestions.

What is MK2/MX500 shell diameter? 1,5 - 1,6 cm?

Are there some kind of silicone/rubber earhooks or rings? Are those things useful at all?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 21, 2018)

FauDrei said:


> Thanks for suggestions.
> 
> What is MK2/MX500 shell diameter? 1,5 - 1,6 cm?
> 
> Are there some kind of silicone/rubber earhooks or rings? Are those things useful at all?


There are and yes they might be useful in your situation although I really advise you give foams another chance because they are really beneficial to the overall sound and fit in most cases.

The stock thin foams on the mk2 are q little stratchy, try buying the VE expack and use those thin foams, they are softer


----------



## dhruvmeena96

slappypete said:


> Follow up to Monk+ mod:
> 
> So I finished mod on the L channel, took some more measurements, and did some listening as well. I realized I forgot to volume match the modded monk+ after the modding was done, so those graphs I posted comparing the R channel of the mod to other buds won't be very accurate. Here are new measurements made from both L and R channels averaged at proper SPL:
> 
> ...


I think your mod is fantastic

You can post here

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-mod-collective-bring-all-your-iem-mods-here.867486/

Actually earbuds are allowed and we would love to have a modder


Second thing...don't worry about the bass, use the donut foam pad or full foam pads to recover the bass..

I think your mod will make it sound better than ZEN...just a little more bass is needed on stock.

Zen and other expensive TOTL earbud forte is acoustic and harmonic transition and when I see your compensated graphs, you fixed most of dips...

One more way to recover bass is to uncover the holes covered by the paper on the region of the uppervent which is not covered by the foam


----------



## Aevi

those svarras look too big for my ears unfortunately.


has anyone found like a new standard for more "disposable" earbuds (like sub $20 i guess?) or are ve monks still still champs in that bracket


----------



## waynes world

Aevi said:


> those svarras look too big for my ears unfortunately.
> 
> has anyone found like a new standard for more "disposable" earbuds (like sub $20 i guess?) or are ve monks still still champs in that bracket



If you don't mind some amping, the monk lite 120's are really good imo. I am listening to them now, amped using the Cayin C5 portable amp, listening to Radiohead's Moon Shaped Pool, and they sound fantastic (much better than the standard monks for my preferences):

https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=24


----------



## dhruvmeena96

waynes world said:


> If you don't mind some amping, the monk lite 120's are really good imo. I am listening to them now, amped using the Cayin C5 portable amp, listening to Radiohead's Moon Shaped Pool, and they sound fantastic (much better than the standard monks for my preferences):
> 
> https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=24


Are you comparing monk plus or the original monk with monk lite


----------



## waynes world

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Are you comparing monk plus or the original monk with monk lite



I was referring to the monk plus (since the originals are so rare). But I just threw the originals in my ears for a comparison...

The monk originals have more bass and more mid-bass, and they are warmer overall. The mids are more recessed, and until your ears get climatized, they sound somewhat veiled in comparison. The monk lite 120's are more neutral, and with some amping, they sound quite balanced and detailed and are very good. Without the amping, they are less inspiring (although they still sound fine).

But, you should try stretching your ears around those Svara L's - they are pretty awesome.


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Jun 21, 2018)

waynes world said:


> I was referring to the monk plus (since the originals are so rare). But I just threw the originals in my ears for a comparison...
> 
> The monk originals have more bass and more mid-bass, and they are warmer overall. The mids are more recessed, and until your ears get climatized, they sound somewhat veiled in comparison. The monk lite 120's are more neutral, and with some amping, they sound quite balanced and detailed and are very good. Without the amping, they are less inspiring (although they still sound fine).
> 
> But, you should try stretching your ears around those Svara L's - they are pretty awesome.


According to what I know....actually its a great news..

All VE clan driver are same, what they did was to change the electrical parameters resulting in increased resistance..

So, if we skip the electrical parameters and focus on mechanical and physical parameters and mod it...I think we can get something better than Zen on lower ohms..inspired by @slappypete

Ohh, by the way I will check svara L


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> I was referring to the monk plus (since the originals are so rare). But I just threw the originals in my ears for a comparison...
> 
> The monk originals have more bass and more mid-bass, and they are warmer overall. The mids are more recessed, and until your ears get climatized, they sound somewhat veiled in comparison. The monk lite 120's are more neutral, and with some amping, they sound quite balanced and detailed and are very good. Without the amping, they are less inspiring (although they still sound fine).
> 
> But, you should try stretching your ears around those Svara L's - they are pretty awesome.



I was wondering, have you tried the Sharp MD? For me it's the better Monk, similar sound, but much better tuned overall, not to mention it is less than half the price of monk +


----------



## redkingjoe

seanc6441 said:


> Personally I think EQ'd Rose Mojito is very impressive. Infact mojito is a great contrast to the BK with excellent end to end extension at the cost of a slightly thinner mid range. Massive soundstage too. EQ I find fixes some glaring issues in tonality and restores full natural vocal quality. Kills the two major peaks/dips also.
> 
> Maybe also one of the Zen detachable variants? The Zen Lite Shining version seems really well received but I haven't heard it myself. Just read some posts on EA and VE facebook group.



That’s very helpful indeed. Will spend some time research these options. Originally, I was looking for K’s Poseidon but sadly it is not available!

I’m thinking to get a wireworld nano platinum eclipse , nordost red heimdall2 or siltech Dutch crown detachable cable!

Thank you for your kindness.


----------



## bonson

subwoof3r said:


> Finally received my new WIllsound PK32 replacement pair from Willy today ! (after almost 20 days)
> My box arrived completely squashed and damaged, fortunately, the earbuds themselves survived due to Willy's package
> 
> I had a quick listen before going to work and ...... guess what ???
> ...


Did you send back your defective earbuds? . If it s the case @willy should know what was wrong and if it was just burning process to get the full sound. 
From your description "better than Mk2 out of the box" could means mine is defective too. Sound did not change so much till I got them.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32703...e-R130-Headphone&spm=2114.13010608.0.0.UNoFie


Check this thing out....it converts earbud into IEM

http://www.techno-fi.net/forum/konu/rose-masya-vs-auglamour-rx1-İncelemesi.11896/

Convert your earbud first to IEM and do the techno-fi mod by cutting it.

It retains the earbud soundstage and fit of a iem....

I am going to try this out....man


----------



## gazzington

Anybody know what the fiio earbuds are like?


----------



## subwoof3r

bonson said:


> Did you send back your defective earbuds? . If it s the case @willy should know what was wrong and if it was just burning process to get the full sound.
> From your description "better than Mk2 out of the box" could means mine is defective too. Sound did not change so much till I got them.



When I heard my new PK32 there was already a night and day difference right out of the box, definitely. No need to burn them, as my defective has now over 100 hours and the sound did not changed at all too.
I will return them to willy soon, so maybe he can check what was the issue exactly (which could be interesting to know).

So we can easily recognize if a PK32 pair is defective, simply give a quick listen and if no bass, then it is. Where now I'm a bit lost is that some says bass is here but light, on my PK32 new pair it's almost as heavy as my MK2.2, it has very slightly less quantity but has more control. When you listen to PK32 you can see how MK2.2 is more "dopamined" on bass quantity. I still believe than PK32 is best allrounder from WIllsound, where MK2.2 is more for electronical musics (where bass and highs needs to be very present).


----------



## chinmie

subwoof3r said:


> Where now I'm a bit lost is that some says bass is here but light, on my PK32 new pair it's almost as heavy as my MK2.2, it has very slightly less quantity but has more control. When you listen to PK32 you can see how MK2.2 is more "dopamined" on bass quantity. I still believe than PK32 is best allrounder from WIllsound, where MK2.2 is more for electronical musics (where bass and highs needs to be very present).



First it will sound like that (MK level bass), after more hours of play, the bass (especially midbass) would decrease and smooth out a bit, leaving the subbass intact and not interfere with the mids. That way the soundstage would spread better and nicely placed.

Also (if it's the same arrangement) the PK32 shipped with regular thick white foams while the MKs would usually shipped with thin foams. I settled for Hiegi full foams on my PK32 now


----------



## subwoof3r (Jun 22, 2018)

chinmie said:


> Also (if it's the same arrangement) the PK32 shipped with regular thick white foams while the MKs would usually shipped with thin foams. I settled for Hiegi full foams on my PK32 now


Strangely my replacement pair has been shipped with black semi-thick foams (and not the thick white as like defective PK32 pair). I compared the stock foams used between MK2.2 and my recent PK32: the ones from my PK32 are a little more thick than MK2.2 which looks more like as VE clan extreme thin foams (also I love the blue/red colors to quickly help differ L and R).
I found the best sounding on VE extreme thin foams for now (the stock ones bringed a little less bass and subbass especially), but maybe I will change my setting once fully burned  time will tell
Really love how PK32 sounds already, it is just brillant!


----------



## bonson

subwoof3r said:


> Strangely my replacement pair has been shipped with black semi-thick foams (and not the thick white as like defective PK32 pair). I compared the stock foams used between MK2.2 and my recent PK32: the ones from my PK32 are a little more thick than MK2.2 which looks more like as VE clan extreme thin foams (also I love the blue/red colors to quickly help differ L and R).
> I found the best sounding on VE extreme thin foams for now (the stock ones bringed a little less bass and subbass especially), but maybe I will change my setting once fully burned  time will tell
> Really love how PK32 sounds already, it is just brillant!


I will keep burning my pk32 all this weekend and if no changes I will contact Willly  Your description and the one from chinmie does  not match with my impression. I have a little Bass and no subass and it lacks  depth in Soundstage .  Maybe a bad batch as I see many people has the same problem.
It s just average sound for the moment but your comments make me feel this should be a TOTL earbuds.


----------



## subwoof3r

bonson said:


> your comments make me feel this should be a *TOTL* earbuds.


Definitely


----------



## capnjack

FauDrei said:


> Got MK2's today.
> 
> First listen thoughts - clear, spacious, "naturally warm" so very non-fatiguing and inviting listen.
> 
> ...



Try the VE ex pack, those silicon ‘shark-fins’ might be the solution


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 22, 2018)

What a long thread... oh my!  But definitely a wealth of knowledge and experience.

I am looking for a warm (dark), non-fatiguing signature for very long listening sessions.  I do like bass but I wouldn't classify myself as a die-hard bass head though. I definitely do not prefer bright and/or strong treble signature nor sibilant earphones. I mainly listen to ambient electronic and ambient classical music (some examples are in my profile). A detachable cable would be great but not a deal breaker.  My main want is "non-fatiguing; easy listening".

Based on what I read in this thread, posted reviews, and on Reddit I am currently considering the following (now ordered by recommendations):

Willsound MK1.2 / MK3
Svara-L
Blur Black Panther
Willsound MK2.2 / PK32
Shozy Cygnus
Cypherus Model ??? (since I live in Thailand)

Any suggestions, advice and/or recommendations would be sincerely appreciated.


EDITS:

Removed Rose Masya; just stumbled across @seanc6441 *post* regarding mid-range brightness
Removed Moondrop VX pro as per @chinmie post
Added MK1.2 and Blur Black Panther as per @capnjack
Addes MK3 as per @palestofwhite


----------



## FauDrei

capnjack said:


> Try the VE ex pack, those silicon ‘shark-fins’ might be the solution


This looks nice and useful... any shopping link for that?


----------



## chinmie

WoodyLuvr said:


> What a long thread... oh my!  But definitely a wealth of knowledge and experience.
> 
> I am looking for a warm (dark), non-fatiguing signature for very long listening sessions.  I do like bass but I wouldn't classify myself as a die-hard bass head though. I definitely do not prefer bright and/or strong treble signature nor sibilant earphones. I mainly listen to ambient electronic and ambient classical music (some examples are in my profile). A detachable cable would be great but not a deal breaker.  My main want is "non-fatiguing; easy listening".
> 
> ...



for warm and darker tone (still have good amount of treble detail) with good bass, the Svara L fits your bill

on that list, i would only drop the VX Pro because it has a weird mid resonance that hurts my ears. the others is good


----------



## capnjack

FauDrei said:


> This looks nice and useful... any shopping link for that?



https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=4


----------



## capnjack

WoodyLuvr said:


> What a long thread... oh my!  But definitely a wealth of knowledge and experience.
> 
> I am looking for a warm (dark), non-fatiguing signature for very long listening sessions.  I do like bass but I wouldn't classify myself as a die-hard bass head though. I definitely do not prefer bright and/or strong treble signature nor sibilant earphones. I mainly listen to ambient electronic and ambient classical music (some examples are in my profile). A detachable cable would be great but not a deal breaker.  My main want is "non-fatiguing; easy listening".
> 
> ...


Willsound Mk.1.2 or Blur Black Panther might also fit the bill


----------



## WoodyLuvr

capnjack said:


> Willsound Mk.1.2 or Blur Black Panther might also fit the bill


Can you recommend a reseller for Blur?


----------



## capnjack

WoodyLuvr said:


> Can you recommend a reseller for Blur?


You’ll have to message Wong Kuan Wei himself about them on Facebook ( Earbuds Anonymous) thread as they are his creations!


----------



## 40760

WoodyLuvr said:


> What a long thread... oh my!  But definitely a wealth of knowledge and experience.
> 
> I am looking for a warm (dark), non-fatiguing signature for very long listening sessions.  I do like bass but I wouldn't classify myself as a die-hard bass head though. I definitely do not prefer bright and/or strong treble signature nor sibilant earphones. I mainly listen to ambient electronic and ambient classical music (some examples are in my profile). A detachable cable would be great but not a deal breaker.  My main want is "non-fatiguing; easy listening".
> 
> ...



Willsound MK1 Rev.2
Willsound MK3


----------



## WoodyLuvr

palestofwhite said:


> Willsound MK1 Rev.2
> Willsound MK3


As you own both what difference (if any) could one discern that could be important in my decision?


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Jun 22, 2018)

slappypete said:


> Follow up to Monk+ mod:
> 
> So I finished mod on the L channel, took some more measurements, and did some listening as well. I realized I forgot to volume match the modded monk+ after the modding was done, so those graphs I posted comparing the R channel of the mod to other buds won't be very accurate. Here are new measurements made from both L and R channels averaged at proper SPL:
> 
> ...


Just open up one or two hole on paper damper where foam damper is not present...simple as that...this will let your overdamped driver breathe some air from the back and get you your bass and create sound like Zen. Actually you cannot fix the high treble region like Zen has because Zen is electrically tuned and has a better cable which in theory do effect the high range(outside the hearable fundamental tone range of 14kHz..

Add a 64ohm resistor on parallel, it will suck up some high range and make monk a 32ohm monster

Super loud


It can be fixed either by changing the front plastic mesh(insult to mesh, it can be said as a cover).


----------



## 40760

WoodyLuvr said:


> As you own both what difference (if any) could one discern that could be important in my decision?



MK1 Rev.2 – Warm, good bass & intimate (more centred) sounding
MK3 – A warmer version of MK2 but still "analytical" & dimensional sounding (as compared to MK1 Rev.2)

Go for the MK3 If you like a balanced or "analytical" with a warm touch.
If you prefer more lows and an even warmer sound, go for the MK1 Rev.2.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Anybody who has a svara L

Tell me which is the best version
32, 64, 96 or 115 ohm

And where can I get it for cheap

As Aliexpress shows me 115$

Its expensive than maysa


----------



## Qualcheduno

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Anybody who has a svara L
> 
> Tell me which is the best version
> 32, 64, 96 or 115 ohm
> ...


2018 New Svara PRO Upgraded 2-way Flat Head Earphone dual-Dynamic Earbud HIFI Monitor Earbud Earphone With MMCX Interface 
http://s.aliexpress.com/fiEzQ3EB


----------



## j4100

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Anybody who has a svara L
> 
> Tell me which is the best version
> 32, 64, 96 or 115 ohm
> ...



http://s.aliexpress.com/7R3aeA3e?

I was under the impression that the 115 ohm version was sold out long ago and only 32 ohm version was available?


----------



## HungryPanda

That link has 20 ohm in first description then 64 ohm further down


----------



## toear

toear said:


> Anyone care to compare any of the Willsounds with the HE 150 PRO?
> 
> Sidegrade or upgrade?
> 
> Thanks!



Anyone? I am looking for comparisons sound signature with specific comparisons in bass impact, extension, and clarity, and high-end sparkle...

Much appreciated!


----------



## jogawag (Jun 22, 2018)

toear said:


> Anyone? I am looking for comparisons sound signature with specific comparisons in bass impact, extension, and clarity, and high-end sparkle...
> 
> Much appreciated!


I have WillSound Mk2.2, so I will compare with this.

Abbreviation: W (WillSound Mk2.2), H (HE 150 PRO)
bass impact: W = H
bass extension: W > H
clarity: W ?<? H
high-end sparkle: W > H

I feel that the sound range of HE 150 PRO is a little narrow.


----------



## waynes world (Jun 22, 2018)

WoodyLuvr said:


> What a long thread... oh my!  But definitely a wealth of knowledge and experience.
> 
> I am looking for a warm (dark), non-fatiguing signature for very long listening sessions.  I do like bass but I wouldn't classify myself as a die-hard bass head though. I definitely do not prefer bright and/or strong treble signature nor sibilant earphones. I mainly listen to ambient electronic and ambient classical music (some examples are in my profile). A detachable cable would be great but not a deal breaker.  My main want is "non-fatiguing; easy listening".
> 
> ...



I would take the Svara L's off of your list... the bass is so good, it's distracting lol. Well, the bass probably wouldn't be a problem for you, but the highs are fairly present which might put them out of your "non-fatiguing; easy listening" category (I don't find them fatiguing, but rather engaging). The build quality and mmcx option is great (using them balanced right now). However, you might be looking for something a bit mellower.

The only others in your list that I have are the MK2.2's. There is more mid-bass and the bass doesn't thump as hard or seem to go as low as the Svara L's. The MK2.2 bass still plentiful, but mellower. The mids are a bit more forward, and the highs are still quite present but not in a fatiguing at all. Overall they sound awesome, but, the treble might be a bit too present for you.

I'm sure you'll get lots of good input. Good luck!

Edit: I just read chinmie's endorsement of the Svara L's. I just wanted to point out that his are the older higher impedence versions, and mine are the 32ohm version. I am not sure how the highs compare.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Guesstimating, where would Willsound's MK1.2, MK2.2, and MK3 fall within the Tier 3 line-up, rating wise?  4.0+?


----------



## 40760

WoodyLuvr said:


> Guesstimating, where would Willsound's MK1.2, MK2.2, and MK3 fall within the Tier 3 line-up, rating wise?  4.0+?



I have the JVC HA-FX850 and I liken it to the MK1 Rev.2


----------



## waynes world

palestofwhite said:


> I have the JVC HA-FX850 and I liken it to the MK1 Rev.2



Those FX850's are classics! Back in the day when I was into iems, I had a good lust going on for them lol.


----------



## Razorbud (Jun 22, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> When I heard my new PK32 there was already a night and day difference right out of the box, definitely. No need to burn them, as my defective has now over 100 hours and the sound did not changed at all too.
> I will return them to willy soon, so maybe he can check what was the issue exactly (which could be interesting to know).
> 
> So we can easily recognize if a PK32 pair is defective, simply give a quick listen and if no bass, then it is. Where now I'm a bit lost is that some says bass is here but light, on my PK32 new pair it's almost as heavy as my MK2.2, it has very slightly less quantity but has more control. When you listen to PK32 you can see how MK2.2 is more "dopamined" on bass quantity. I still believe than PK32 is best allrounder from WIllsound, where MK2.2 is more for electronical musics (where bass and highs needs to be very present).



You guys are making me worried about my pk32 hahah. I felt like the bass is there but just a little light. I’m still not sure if it’s just me being picky or if has anything to do with fitting or foams.

If too many people are having the same issues perhaps it could be a batch thing and might need to be recalled.

For now I have not much issues with mine. Bass is there, yes, though it’s a bit light. If the pk32 is meant to have more bass than the mk2, I would imagine that the mk2 wouldn’t have much bass at all. Note that I’ve not heard the mk2. At the moment I would think that they are adequate but it would still be nice to check or get some confirmation. 

Edit: I misread. It’s meant to have about as much or a bit less bass as the mk2, just more controlled.


----------



## mochill

waynes world said:


> Those FX850's are classics! Back in the day when I was into iems, I had a good lust going on for them lol.


I have the fx1200 , but haven't used it much after buying them because cost to much


----------



## waynes world

mochill said:


> I have the fx1200 , but haven't used it much after buying them because cost to much



I don't quite understand. I would think that would be a good reason to use them _very_ much!


----------



## bonson

Razorbud said:


> You guys are making me worried about my pk32 hahah. I felt like the bass is there but just a little light. I’m still not sure if it’s just me being picky or if has anything to do with fitting or foams.
> 
> If too many people are having the same issues perhaps it could be a batch thing and might need to be recalled.
> 
> ...


I have both pk32 and Mk2. Mk2 have nice bass and sub bass. My pk32 has far less bass than the Mk2.
But I took 2 files in the burning threads
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/free-burn-in-files.466827/
 and I will let pk32 playing  all the week. Let's see if it open up.


----------



## mbwilson111

mochill said:


> I have the fx1200 , but haven't used it much after buying them because cost to much



Just enjoy them.  Life  is too short.


----------



## toear

jogawag said:


> I have WillSound Mk2.2, so I will compare with this.
> 
> Abbreviation: W (WillSound Mk2.2), H (HE 150 PRO)
> bass impact: W = H
> ...



Thank you!

Any thoughts on soundstage comparison?

Also, do you feel the mk2.2 is a big/worthy upgrade? Or should I look to another level? 

Again, much appreciated!


----------



## jogawag

toear said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Any thoughts on soundstage comparison?
> 
> ...


I have WillSound Mk2.2, so I will compare with this.

Abbreviation: W (WillSound Mk2.2), H (HE 150 PRO)
bass impact: W = H
bass extension: W > H
clarity: W ?<? H
high-end sparkle: W > H
sound stage: W > H

I feel that the sound range of Mk2.2 is a little wide.
I feel the Mk2.2 is a big upgrade!


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 23, 2018)

Razorbud said:


> You guys are making me worried about my pk32 hahah. I felt like the bass is there but just a little light. I’m still not sure if it’s just me being picky or if has anything to do with fitting or foams.
> 
> If too many people are having the same issues perhaps it could be a batch thing and might need to be recalled.
> 
> ...


Trust me youwould know if your pk32 was like mine or subwoofers as he seems to be in the sam boat as me. It's not just bass light, mine was completely missing extension below like 60-80hz... It couldnt do any sub bass and only bare minimun mid bass. Songs didnt sound the same as I remembered them xD


----------



## redkingjoe

waynes world said:


> I would take the Svara L's off of your list... the bass is so good, it's distracting lol. Well, the bass probably wouldn't be a problem for you, but the highs are fairly present which might put them out of your "non-fatiguing; easy listening" category (I don't find them fatiguing, but rather engaging). The build quality and mmcx option is great (using them balanced right now). However, you might be looking for something a bit mellower.
> 
> The only others in your list that I have are the MK2.2's. There is more mid-bass and the bass doesn't thump as hard or seem to go as low as the Svara L's. The MK2.2 bass still plentiful, but mellower. The mids are a bit more forward, and the highs are still quite present but not in a fatiguing at all. Overall they sound awesome, but, the treble might be a bit too present for you.
> 
> ...



Any ideas on the Svara L vs Svara Pro?

Thanks!


----------



## mochill

mbwilson111 said:


> Just enjoy them.  Life  is too short.


Really enjoying my periodic audio berryllium alot


----------



## wskl

redkingjoe said:


> Any ideas on the Svara L vs Svara Pro?
> 
> Thanks!




The "search" function is your friend.


ClieOS said:


> Svara Pro
> NiceHCK EBX
> 
> EBX is warm and smooth while still articulate - a really musical earbuds to listen to, especially for anything vocal related. Svara Pro is overall more balanced in tuning than the original Svara. I won't say it is necessary a jump in SQ, but it is more versatile when it comes to music matching. According to the maker (which I agree), it goes particularly well with slow music. With fast music, upper vocal can sound slightly dry. EQ it down just a bit and it will shine.





silverfishla said:


> What’s the difference between the 2017 Svara L and the 2018 Svara L Pro?  There is one store on Ali that has the Pro version and it has a black grill vent while the regular one has silver?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## redkingjoe

wskl said:


> The "search" function is your friend.



Thank you very much for your kind help in this! I think I will either go with the pro or wait for the 2019 version! 

(FYI, computers, apps, internet etc do not belong to my world. As I’m getting old, I found it more and more difficult to use them).


----------



## redkingjoe

mochill said:


> Really enjoying my periodic audio berryllium alot



beryllium is very interesting but I couldn’t find an earbud with beryllium!


----------



## 40760

MK1 on a rainy day...


----------



## waynes world (Jun 23, 2018)

Got to our campsite rather late (ie 830pm), but had a nice dinner, and the better half has soundly crashed. Which means that I'm enjoying a glass of wine, and listening to some classic
Beck (Sea Change) through my already classic MK2's, out of the classic Colorfly C3 dap. _Very nice._







Spoiler: Good Beck tunes...


----------



## tim0chan

Hi, im new to this thread, i own the ve zen lite and wanted to ask yall whether the shozy bk would be a good upgrade?
if not, what other low impedance earbuds do you guys recommend?


----------



## capnjack

tim0chan said:


> Hi, im new to this thread, i own the ve zen lite and wanted to ask yall whether the shozy bk would be a good upgrade?
> if not, what other low impedance earbuds do you guys recommend?


Willsound is all the rage at the moment


----------



## toear

jogawag said:


> I have WillSound Mk2.2, so I will compare with this.
> 
> Abbreviation: W (WillSound Mk2.2), H (HE 150 PRO)
> bass impact: W = H
> ...



@jogowag - thank you for your impressions.  Much appreciated! You are helping to make things harder to resist. Lol! 

Does anyone else have any input on this? (I just did the conversion and it would be close to $80cad shipped for the mk2.2s).

I understand that there is an element of diminishing returns as prices go up, in general... But are the willsounds 2x better than the HE 150 PRO? 

(I have a feeling I might know what some of you are going to say based on pages and pages of impressions... Lol! Just looking for more specific commentary based on the HE 150 PROs.) 

Again,  much appreciated!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 24, 2018)

This is in regards to my search for a warm (dark), non-fatiguing earbud for long listening sessions (mainly ambient electronic). Unfortunately, what appeared to be billed as the ultimate in warm/dark signature the K's Poseidon and ABnormal Labs Diomnes Lv2 are both no longer available 

I have now narrowed down the list to the following:

*Blur Black Panther* (or other model)
*Willsound MK1.2 **
*Willsound MK3*
*VE ZEN 2.0* (320 Ohms)
* @palestofwhite has clarified that MK1.2 is similar to JVC HA-FX850 in warmth but is not bright and is the warmest of the Willsound earbuds.

Shozy BK Stardust and Cygnus were both taken out of consideration as they are more neutral than warm/dark.

Svara-L (32 Ohms) were taken off my list as per post by @waynes world... unfortunately, I am unable to find the older high impedance model of the Svara-L as kindly recommended by @chinmie​Anything else warm and dark that I should consider?

EDITS:  A clarification made by @palestofwhite and Blur has been added to the list after receiving recommendations (via PM) to reconsider them after @capnjack initial recommendation.


----------



## mochill

redkingjoe said:


> beryllium is very interesting but I couldn’t find an earbud with beryllium!


Puresounds ps600 was an awesome one , I want the 600 core ecediti


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Got to our campsite rather late (ie 830pm), but had a nice dinner, and the better half has soundly crashed. Which means that I'm enjoying a glass of wine, and listening to some classic
> Beck (Sea Change) through my already classic MK2's, out of the classic Colorfly C3 dap. _Very nice._



What a nice peaceful setting for some music with your Willsounds.  Simple pleasures.  I had to steal the photo for my PC desktop background


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> What a nice peaceful setting for some music with your Willsounds.  Simple pleasures.  I had to steal the photo for my PC desktop background



Michigan-ish


----------



## 40760

WoodyLuvr said:


> This is in regards to my search for a warm (dark), non-fatiguing earbud for long listening sessions (mainly ambient electronic). Unfortunately, what appeared to be billed as the ultimate in warm/dark signature the K's Poseidon and ABnormal Labs Diomnes Lv2 are both no longer available
> 
> I have now narrowed down the list to the following:
> 
> ...



The MK1 Rev.2 should definitely be for you. It's the warmest of the bunch. It sounds quite like the FX850 but it's not bright at all.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Practice shot with the Simphonio Dragon 2+ and Xuelin iHiFi790.  2.5mm Balanced Pairing.







--


----------



## kw8910

Fresh delivery VE pure ocean blue


----------



## waynes world

BloodyPenguin said:


> Practice shot with the Simphonio Dragon 2+ and Xuelin iHiFi790.  2.5mm Balanced Pairing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I really like the 770. How is the 790?


----------



## Dobrescu George

kw8910 said:


> Fresh delivery VE pure ocean blue



Woah, the actual design looks nice in that photo  

I always fear a little too much color, and my desk is white, my PC is black, and all my table is dressed in black and white because of this, but that IEM really seems like it looks well-made and just eye-candy dressed in that ovean blue


----------



## rkw (Jun 23, 2018)

capnjack said:


> Willsound is all the rage at the moment


Funny how it goes in this thread. A lot of people started discussing Willsound, but it was hardly mentioned a few months ago. "All the rage" have come and gone for Puresounds, K's, BS1, Blur, etc. It seems as though there is a certain core group pursuing the latest rage, and after most in that group have bought the earbuds, there is not so much to discuss any more, until the next rage.


----------



## seanc6441

kw8910 said:


> Fresh delivery VE pure ocean blue



What’s the make up of that cable matierial wise? She’s a beauty


----------



## teesui

kw8910 said:


> Fresh delivery VE pure ocean blue



Dang! That looks nice! When did VE begin selling them? I haven't seen much posted about these on VE's FB page


----------



## kw8910

Dobrescu George said:


> Woah, the actual design looks nice in that photo
> 
> I always fear a little too much color, and my desk is white, my PC is black, and all my table is dressed in black and white because of this, but that IEM really seems like it looks well-made and just eye-candy dressed in that ovean blue



I'm the same way, I'd prefer if these were black or white too...easier to blend in with all my other purchases and hide them from the wifey.


----------



## kw8910

seanc6441 said:


> What’s the make up of that cable matierial wise? She’s a beauty



Couldn't resist these since they're pure silver.



teesui said:


> Dang! That looks nice! When did VE begin selling them? I haven't seen much posted about these on VE's FB page



Lee will be running another contest on his facebook page in a few weeks probably. Only 5 sold at a time ($60 ea).


----------



## redkingjoe

mochill said:


> Puresounds ps600 was an awesome one , I want the 600 core ecediti



I did a search in aliexpress. Can’t find place to buy PS600!

600 core ecediti?


----------



## redkingjoe

rkw said:


> Funny how it goes in this thread. A lot of people started discussing Willsound, but it was hardly mentioned a few months ago. "All the rage" have come and gone for Puresounds, K's, BS1, Blur, etc. It seems as though there is a certain core group pursuing the latest rage, and after most in that group have bought the earbuds, there is not so much to discuss any more, until the next rage.



There’s so many blur models out there; each with probably only a few pieces. I don’t know what to discuss! Is there any statistics of how many models of blur out there?

For K, I can’t get what I wanted...the kinera ( bio cell) and the Poseidon... where to get them?

For Puresounds, again, it seems I couldn’t find the PS600 to buy, the beryllium! Is there any mmcx model?


----------



## redkingjoe (Jun 23, 2018)

kw8910 said:


> Fresh delivery VE pure ocean blue



It seems to be the same cable as Shozy Bk LE!


----------



## RobinFood

kw8910 said:


> I'm the same way, I'd prefer if these were black or white too...easier to blend in with all my other purchases and hide them from the wifey.



Haha, totally do the same thing!

Wife: Did you gey ANOTHER pair of earphones?!
Me: oh, I've had these for a while now...like three or four hours!


----------



## silverfishla

rkw said:


> Funny how it goes in this thread. A lot of people started discussing Willsound, but it was hardly mentioned a few months ago. "All the rage" have come and gone for Puresounds, K's, BS1, Blur, etc. It seems as though there is a certain core group pursuing the latest rage, and after most in that group have bought the earbuds, there is not so much to discuss any more, until the next rage.


Yeah, I got bit by the BS1 hype perpetuated by some on this board.  That's what I get for taking the advice from someone with tin ears.  I can't really take anything too seriously from some of the constant posters here.


----------



## mochill

redkingjoe said:


> I did a search in aliexpress. Can’t find place to buy PS600!
> 
> 600 core ecediti?


600 core edition I meant


----------



## snip3r77

Dobrescu George said:


> Woah, the actual design looks nice in that photo
> 
> I always fear a little too much color, and my desk is white, my PC is black, and all my table is dressed in black and white because of this, but that IEM really seems like it looks well-made and just eye-candy dressed in that ovean blue



I'm not sure but would a white bud be a better color combo?


----------



## mochill

mochill said:


> 600 core edition I meant


Looks like the 600 core cable edition does not exist anymore, but the ps100-600 still has the berryllium drivers


----------



## kurtextrem

tim0chan said:


> Hi, im new to this thread, i own the ve zen lite and wanted to ask yall whether the shozy bk would be a good upgrade?
> if not, what other low impedance earbuds do you guys recommend?


I've never heard the Zen (Lite), however I think Shozy BK is an upgrade (based on ClieOS ranking that disappeared).


silverfishla said:


> Yeah, I got bit by the BS1 hype perpetuated by some on this board.  That's what I get for taking the advice from someone with tin ears.  I can't really take anything too seriously from some of the constant posters here.


What is your complaint about the BS1? I even prefer it over my Shozy Stardust. You might prefer other sound signatures though.


----------



## capnjack (Jun 24, 2018)

rkw said:


> Funny how it goes in this thread. A lot of people started discussing Willsound, but it was hardly mentioned a few months ago. "All the rage" have come and gone for Puresounds, K's, BS1, Blur, etc. It seems as though there is a certain core group pursuing the latest rage, and after most in that group have bought the earbuds, there is not so much to discuss any more, until the next rage.


It is only a personal view at the end of the day, as you know, we all hear things differently to an extent. I personally have a couple of pairs of Blur, Willsound and VE buds and enjoy them all for different genres/artists depending on my mood/taste at that particular time. I do think though, as it is only one persons view on a particular bud, then it should only be taken as a guide not a rule. After all ‘you pays yer money, you takes yer chance’. Only you know what you like at the end of the day. I do happen to think Willsound are v.v.good value for ‘my taste’ and I think that Blur White Chocolate is the best bud I’ve ever heard........so far


----------



## chinmie

kurtextrem said:


> I've never heard the Zen (Lite), however I think Shozy BK is an upgrade (based on ClieOS ranking that disappeared).
> 
> What is your complaint about the BS1? I even prefer it over my Shozy Stardust. You might prefer other sound signatures though.


 


silverfishla said:


> Yeah, I got bit by the BS1 hype perpetuated by some on this board.  That's what I get for taking the advice from someone with tin ears.  I can't really take anything too seriously from some of the constant posters here.



Keep in mind that when someone seemingly hyped something, it really comes down to personal tastes. We might not agree or may even not liking their suggestions, but it doesn't mean they are wrong.

For instance, i much prefer the stardust compared to the BS1, but some of my friends that i trust and opinions i respect like them so much. No wrong in that, and i don't have to force or defend my opinion when other say the opposite. 

Too much variable differences like taste in music, gears, and ear anatomy between persons. I'm just glad that people here still willing to give time and share their thoughts and findings rather than  just keep it for themselves.


----------



## 40760 (Jun 24, 2018)

Just own up guys... who are those constant posters with tin ears? You know how much harm you've caused to those who can't make decisions based on their own assessment, or differentiate your feedback from hype?


----------



## chaiyuta

Unlike IEM threads, they are many kind of threads such as official brands thread, reputable IEM reviewers thread, sub xxx$ thread, or even hi-end threads, etc. But this is only one earbud thread. We have no choice but stick around altogether here. Someone want to stick around budget earbuds, somes prefer hype-ed earbuds, some stick around only the big three AliExpress resellers and some prefer vintage earbuds, or earbud from DIYers.
When each category has no news, it is the time for another category type make a boost. it is natural~


----------



## redkingjoe

chaiyuta said:


> Unlike IEM threads, they are many kind of threads such as official brands thread, reputable IEM reviewers thread, sub xxx$ thread, or even hi-end threads, etc. But this is only one earbud thread. We have no choice but stick around altogether here. Someone want to stick around budget earbuds, somes prefer hype-ed earbuds, some stick around only the big three AliExpress resellers and some prefer vintage earbuds, or earbud from DIYers.
> When each category has no news, it is the time for another category type make a boost. it is natural~



Sadly, earbuds are marginalised by manufacturers! They made a lot less from selling earbuds.


Look at those iem, US$1000 is a mid-end model and supply with a cheap cable!


----------



## jrazmar

chinmie said:


> First it will sound like that (MK level bass), after more hours of play, the bass (especially midbass) would decrease and smooth out a bit, leaving the subbass intact and not interfere with the mids. That way the soundstage would spread better and nicely placed.
> 
> Also (if it's the same arrangement) the PK32 shipped with regular thick white foams while the MKs would usually shipped with thin foams. I settled for Hiegi full foams on my PK32 now



How does the PK32 and/or MK2 compare to the Liebesleid? Is it the same level of resolution, detail and layering? I'm interested to know with regards to these aspects as I think those set the Liebesleid apart among all earbuds that I've heard so far.


----------



## chinmie

jrazmar said:


> How does the PK32 and/or MK2 compare to the Liebesleid? Is it the same level of resolution, detail and layering? I'm interested to know with regards to these aspects as I think those set the Liebesleid apart among all earbuds that I've heard so far.



the Liebesleid has more detail and treble clarity/sparkle. PK32 is like a warmer liebesleid with slightly bigger bass volume, and softer treble detail. Liebesleid also have a thicker mid, but volume-wise, the mids between the two are more or less comparable. PK32 have a more spaced out mid section. these two are now my favorite music buds, while the MK2 is my go-to buds for games and movies


----------



## tim0chan

kurtextrem said:


> I've never heard the Zen (Lite), however I think Shozy BK is an upgrade (based on ClieOS ranking that disappeared).
> 
> What is your complaint about the BS1? I even prefer it over my Shozy Stardust. You might prefer other sound signatures though.


Do u mind comparing the 2?


----------



## tim0chan

capnjack said:


> It is only a personal view at the end of the day, as you know, we all hear things differently to an extent. I personally have a couple of pairs of Blur, Willsound and VE buds and enjoy them all for different genres/artists depending on my mood/taste at that particular time. I do think though, as it is only one persons view on a particular bud, then it should only be taken as a guide not a rule. After all ‘you pays yer money, you takes yer chance’. Only you know what you like at the end of the day. I do happen to think Willsound are v.v.good value for ‘my taste’ and I think that Blur White Chocolate is the best bud I’ve ever heard........so far


Sorry, this is completely unrelated, but do you mind sharing impressions of the uairekkos buds?


----------



## capnjack

tim0chan said:


> Sorry, this is completely unrelated, but do you mind sharing impressions of the uairekkos buds?


I would if Ryo had shipped them/finished them!?!? I’ve no idea yet when they might arrive.


----------



## tim0chan

capnjack said:


> I would if Ryo had shipped them/finished them!?!? I’ve no idea yet when they might arrive.


I think he's done, based on his newest insta post


----------



## capnjack

tim0chan said:


> I think he's done, based on his newest insta post


Haven't seen it yet


----------



## jrazmar

Thanks chinmie. That helps. Yeah, Liebesleid is just awesome sounding buds.


----------



## dheepak10 (Jun 25, 2018)

Got the rest of my Willsounds couple of days back, including the MX32/MXL prototype.



MK1 and MK2 impressions already posted as reviews.

PK32 is an interesting one too. That's the only bud so far I use with foams - the thin black foams that came with MK2. With a bit thicker Donuts, the bass is boosted but airiness is lost. With the thin foams, it's a good balance between bass quantity at the lower end and airiness of the highs.

MK3 has not opened up yet and sounds veiled; has around 22 hours in it. I'll give it some more time.

The MX32 shell has a more comfortable fit than MK series shell. Sound is quite spacious but on the thinner side. But it's just a prototype and not the final version. Comes in a good red colour too.

Another update is that no more Rev1, Rev2, etc. It's just going to be MK1, MK2, etc from now on as confirmed by Willy.


----------



## HungryPanda

Damn and blast, removing the cable from my BGVP DX3's the right bud got its socket ripped right out of the bud.


----------



## silverfishla

chinmie said:


> Keep in mind that when someone seemingly hyped something, it really comes down to personal tastes. We might not agree or may even not liking their suggestions, but it doesn't mean they are wrong.
> 
> For instance, i much prefer the stardust compared to the BS1, but some of my friends that i trust and opinions i respect like them so much. No wrong in that, and i don't have to force or defend my opinion when other say the opposite.
> 
> Too much variable differences like taste in music, gears, and ear anatomy between persons. I'm just glad that people here still willing to give time and share their thoughts and findings rather than  just keep it for themselves.


You forgot the variable of what a person's ears might be made of....for example, tin.    Apparently, you agree that the BS1 was overly hyped as possible TOTL.
I love when people share their impressions, it's why I read this thread and contribute to it.  I just don't like when a guy comes on here and hypes some bud for days as great, recommends it to death then a month later says something like ... well it's got it's flaws and it might not be that great.  That's just irresponsible.  I say, take your new toy syndrome and make a review when your cocaine has worn off.


----------



## silverfishla

HungryPanda said:


> Damn and blast, removing the cable from my BGVP DX3's the right bud got its socket ripped right out of the bud.


This happened to my DX3 buds pretty early on.  I asked the seller for a replacement and he obliged.  I think it is (or was) a problem with these earbuds as somewhere earlier in this thread, it was discussed.


----------



## FauDrei

Antitragus and antehelix on both of my ears have traction burns so, for the time being, I have to stop listening (damn those MX shells)... but I want to say this:

I was having fun collecting cheap IEMs until in a couple of my budget overstretches I got LZ A5 (fun IEM) and HiSenior T12U (reference IEM). After finding those I have tried and tried more budget IEMs, but nothing there was really challenging those two... and I had no more fun collecting IEMs. So I've came here and asked about earbuds with my preferences... just to try a similar sport...

Thanks to all who pointed me to WillSounds. MK2's are perhaps not as technically proficient as A5 or T12U, but they have no flaws and have a bit of everything and also have that effortlessly clear and open stage that had me continuously wounding my ears on purpose of getting better fit. So I got a third favourite earphone - thank you earbuds thread junkies.

P.S.
PK32's should be on their way, so help me God.


----------



## doggiemom

silverfishla said:


> You forgot the variable of what a person's ears might be made of....for example, tin.    Apparently, you agree that the BS1 was overly hyped as possible TOTL.
> I love when people share their impressions, it's why I read this thread and contribute to it.  I just don't like when a guy comes on here and hypes some bud for days as great, recommends it to death then a month later says something like ... well it's got it's flaws and it might not be that great.  That's just irresponsible.  I say, take your new toy syndrome and make a review when your cocaine has worn off.


The cocaine comment almost made me spit out my wine.    I'm guilty of jumping on the latest hype bandwagon many times, but I don't think I've ever changed my mind later and decided something sucks after all..... it is more that old things get put into storage and forgotten about when new shinies come in.  As long as people are having fun and not exceeding their budgets it is pretty harmless...... its not like we're buying >$1k headphones every week based on a few people's comments.  

Speaking of shinies, those Docomo/HCK buds came in from Amazon last week.  (Thanks to whoever posted the link!)  They are okay.  Shells are comfortable, but they sound a bit thin to me.  The $30 Amazon price is a bit much; they would have been a steal for $6 though.  Oh well, back to the Zoomfreds.


----------



## waynes world

silverfishla said:


> You forgot the variable of what a person's ears might be made of....for example, tin.    Apparently, you agree that the BS1 was overly hyped as possible TOTL.
> I love when people share their impressions, it's why I read this thread and contribute to it.  I just don't like when a guy comes on here and hypes some bud for days as great, recommends it to death then a month later says something like ... well it's got it's flaws and it might not be that great.  That's just irresponsible.  I say, take your new toy syndrome and make a review when your cocaine has worn off.



This is how I know you're not talking about me: my ears are made of lead, not tin; I've never heard the BS1; and once I've started hyping something, I _never stop_ lol.

Which brings me to my main point: the Svara L's continue to rock hard!


----------



## ld100

I bought a not expensive earbud from Ali and it arrived with a buzzing on one side. Contacted the seller **** and he is demanding some kind of a video of the issue. Has anyone experienced that? How would you take a video of a buzzing sound in the earbud? Is that a scum just to avoid issuing a refund?


----------



## silverfishla

ld100 said:


> I bought a not expensive earbud from Ali and it arrived with a buzzing on one side. Contacted the seller **** and he is demanding some kind of a video of the issue. Has anyone experienced that? How would you take a video of a buzzing sound in the earbud? Is that a scum just to avoid issuing a refund?


Kind of par for the course.  Sellers will ask for video, photos or proof of destruction ( that’s you cutting up and destroying the item).  Some won’t but most will.  That way, you don’t have to send it back and they are assured the customer is not scamming them.  Ali is good though, because sellers will usually replace a bad product or make sure you are satisfied.  A bad review hurts them a lot.


----------



## chinmie

silverfishla said:


> You forgot the variable of what a person's ears might be made of....for example, tin.



I implicitly said that on the different ear anatomy part 

sometimes the best way to read a review is by reading the person writing it: what they like, their other gears, what other gear that they have listened/ experienced other than what they purchased, and also their usual demeanor and what word they usually use to express themselves.


----------



## redkingjoe

RobinFood said:


> Haha, totally do the same thing!
> 
> Wife: Did you gey ANOTHER pair of earphones?!
> Me: oh, I've had these for a while now...like three or four hours!




Lol!


----------



## waynes world

ld100 said:


> I bought a not expensive earbud from Ali and it arrived with a buzzing on one side. Contacted the seller **** and he is demanding some kind of a video of the issue. Has anyone experienced that? How would you take a video of a buzzing sound in the earbud? Is that a scum just to avoid issuing a refund?



Have you tried sucking on it yet?
Ps I'm serious.


----------



## neuromancer

waynes world said:


> This is how I know you're not talking about me: my ears are made of lead, not tin; I've never heard the BS1; and once I've started hyping something, I _never stop_ lol.
> 
> Which brings me to my main point: the Svara L's continue to rock hard!


BTW.... since you got me interested in these now, is the Svara Pro 2018 upgraded the same as the Svara L?


----------



## kurtextrem

Today someone posted the following in the EA Group on facebook: 
Today, ABnormal Labs Officially Released : Duotres T1 (Tier1)

I can't find any info about it, so it might be a "leak". However, it might be an interesting earbud!


----------



## 40760

dheepak10 said:


> The MX32 Sheri is more command comfortable fit than MK series shell. Sound is quite spacious but on the thinner side. But it's just a prototype and not the final version. Comes in a good red colour too.



These look so pretty...


----------



## Sito Lupion

I just ordered the NICEHCK EBX, all the comments I have read are positive... I want to rest from iems that violate my ears


----------



## HungryPanda

Sito Lupion said:


> I just ordered the NICEHCK EBX, all the comments I have read are positive... I want to rest from iems that violate my ears


 They are excellent earbuds you will really like them I'm sure


----------



## Sito Lupion

HungryPanda said:


> They are excellent earbuds you will really like them I'm sure



Thanks, really hope so...


----------



## redkingjoe

Sito Lupion said:


> I just ordered the NICEHCK EBX, all the comments I have read are positive... I want to rest from iems that violate my ears


Wait for your review!
Is it the mmcx connection version?
Will you upgrade the cable?


----------



## Sito Lupion

redkingjoe said:


> Wait for your review!
> Is it the mmcx connection version?
> Will you upgrade the cable?



yes, it's mmcx version, the cable is standard, apparently it's fantastic ...


----------



## HungryPanda

The cable is very nice indeed


----------



## Carrow

HungryPanda said:


> The cable is very nice indeed



You could say it's nice as HCK.


----------



## CharlesRievone

kurtextrem said:


> Today someone posted the following in the EA Group on facebook:
> Today, ABnormal Labs Officially Released : Duotres T1 (Tier1)
> 
> I can't find any info about it, so it might be a "leak". However, it might be an interesting earbud!


That post was shared directly from Abnormal Labs' facebook page, so it's definitely not a leak. 
They actually already did a local (Indonesia) pre-sale a few weeks ago. 

I also did post my impressions about them on EA if you want to check them out.


----------



## Chifi

hello,

i have received my Yincrow RW-9 couple of weeks ago and i've been happily using them  the only thing that's missing is earhooks to keep them sealed in. i've noticed Venture electronics sells their EX-pack for $5 and $5 shipping. I have already stocked on earpads, so i only need earhooks. Does anybody have spare ones they could mail in small envelope? i'd paypal you $5 for them including shipping.


----------



## HungryPanda

Which earhooks do you need? The ones that go over the wire?


----------



## Chifi

No, these kind of earhooks:


----------



## waynes world

neuromancer said:


> BTW.... since you got me interested in these now, is the Svara Pro 2018 upgraded the same as the Svara L?



Sorry, I do not know.


----------



## AudioGade

Can anyone help.  Ive noticed all the praise for the Willsound MK2s, and would like to buy a pair, but they are out of stock on the rholupat website.  Is there another way of purchasing them, or does rholupat normally restock them quickly?

Thanks.


----------



## TVeye (Jun 25, 2018)

You can contact willy directly on his Face book page.
He’s just finished to build my 3.5mm balanced MK2 today.


----------



## FauDrei

Bah... discovered first MK2 drawback: with decent DAC/amp they are special, but on lesser sources they are just good. 

Till today I've kept them hooked to my bedside piCorePlayer/NFB-11.32 combo and they were just flying. Today I've took them for a spin with my phone... oh well... it was too good to be true so far anyway.


----------



## chinmie

FauDrei said:


> Bah... discovered first MK2 drawback: with decent DAC/amp they are special, but on lesser sources they are just good.



That could be said to all other earphones, because of the lesser DAC/amp. From what i experienced, better DAC will have better staging, especially on depth (can't cheat on depth with the cheaper DAC). Not to mention treble grain resolution. That's what the MK2 are good at, so it will be more noticable when we plug them to a weaker DAC like phones for example.


----------



## seanc6441

I've also discovered something; that the mk2 thin foams and the aliexpress thin foams sound quite different. At first i did not bother to try the ali thin foams because well, I thought I already knew what the thins sounded like on the mk2's. Good, but not great IMO.

But now I have realised and tried the ali thin foams and WOW, so much better. Bass is way more solid, same great clarity afforded but a slightly tamed upper mid range (a good thing imo for the willsound can be a tiny bit sharp at times in that region) and the treble has remain unchanged as very neutral and airy.

For sure this is my final foam rolling on the mk2 for now because they sound great now with or without adding EQ on top (especially with some slight EQ) but overall just really amazing combo IMO.


----------



## seanc6441

On another note, I need to gush about my K's black ling soon because it's just sonic heaven... The end to end extension is literally mesmerizing. I forget I'm listening to an earbud more so than any other bud in my collection. It's just so silky smooth and yet still textured and detailed when it needs to be.


----------



## 40760

FauDrei said:


> Bah... discovered first MK2 drawback: with decent DAC/amp they are special, but on lesser sources they are just good.
> 
> Till today I've kept them hooked to my bedside piCorePlayer/NFB-11.32 combo and they were just flying. Today I've took them for a spin with my phone... oh well... it was too good to be true so far anyway.



I don't think you have much of a choice there and it pretty much applies to most of the earphones and IEMs...
It's almost by law that they scale according to the source they're being fed with...


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 25, 2018)

silverfishla said:


> You forgot the variable of what a person's ears might be made of....for example, tin.    Apparently, you agree that the BS1 was overly hyped as possible TOTL.
> I love when people share their impressions, it's why I read this thread and contribute to it.  I just don't like when a guy comes on here and hypes some bud for days as great, recommends it to death then a month later says something like ... well it's got it's flaws and it might not be that great.  That's just irresponsible.  I say, take your new toy syndrome and make a review when your cocaine has worn off.


You're probably referring to me. Keep in mind it was my second ever higher end earbud and it was one of my best earbuds at the time. What I said was my honest impressions for months after writing it. Of coarse my tastes have developed the more earbuds I have heard now, but it was never my intention to mislead anyone by posting my feelings on the earbud at the time. That and the fit being picky for some but not for others means what we all hear is different.

Sorry if you jumped on it because of my praise alone, but I wasn't the only one to praise them and not the first to mention them so I hope you took all the possible reviews into consideration before buying them. Again though my bad that I didn't realise the fit issues earlier to mention it at first.


----------



## chaiyuta

@redkingjoe : In last few pages, I saw you asking about Puresounds PS100-600. You could look around on the official Puresounds taobao website.

Puresounds PS100-600 : package no. 2 is 600-core cable, but now this option is out of stock. Even you couldn't get it via Taobao. I believed that Mr.Peng Peng can accept an order via Paypal. 600S is tuned to more vocal-emphasis than 600 version.

Puresounds PS100-600S mmcx : this is the latest iteration of Puresounds PS100-600S. It might meet your criteria.

If you want my PS100-600S + 600-core copper cable + 2.5 mm plug, I am willing to resale it to you. PM me if you are interested.


----------



## DBaldock9

Just received the VE Monk Lite Earbuds (40Ω, Gold/Black, Android 3-button cable, w/EX Pack) that I ordered - one set for a friend, and one set for me.

Connected a set to my iFi Micro iDSD, listening to my Roku 4 Net Streamer.
They're comfortable, and sound good, as well.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

*Sunrise SW-Dragon II *


----------



## redkingjoe

chaiyuta said:


> @redkingjoe : In last few pages, I saw you asking about Puresounds PS100-600. You could look around on the official Puresounds taobao website.
> 
> Puresounds PS100-600 : package no. 2 is 600-core cable, but now this option is out of stock. Even you couldn't get it via Taobao. I believed that Mr.Peng Peng can accept an order via Paypal. 600S is tuned to more vocal-emphasis than 600 version.
> 
> ...



Thank you for all your kind help. It’s extremely nice of you! I will go ahead real soon.

I want MMCX with 3.5mm ie single ended. Do you have that?

Btw, do you know how to get the K’s Poseidon silver mmcx?

Thanks!


----------



## 40760

BloodyPenguin said:


> *Sunrise SW-Dragon II *



These have piqued my interest... looking forward to your review...


----------



## chaiyuta

Unfortunately, I own PS100-600S and PS100-500 and both are 2.5 mm. plug. Do you mean MMCX cable + 3.5 mm SE plug? Sorry I don't own even a single MMCX cable. I go toward 2-pin path~ By the way, there are many choices in aftermarket cables. My suggestion is if you are interested to get any OCC cable, please avoid any OCC self-claimed cable from China. They cheat. AFAIK OCC-certified cable factory are located in Japan, Taiwan and Hongkong, no more than these. Though it doesn't mean those fake OCC cables from China are all not good SQ.

To get K's Poseidon, you have no choice but have to wait it pops up on the second-hand resale market..


----------



## subwoof3r

seanc6441 said:


> I've also discovered something; that the mk2 thin foams and the aliexpress thin foams sound quite different. At first i did not bother to try the ali thin foams because well, I thought I already knew what the thins sounded like on the mk2's. Good, but not great IMO.
> 
> But now I have realised and tried the ali thin foams and WOW, so much better. Bass is way more solid, same great clarity afforded but a slightly tamed upper mid range (a good thing imo for the willsound can be a tiny bit sharp at times in that region) and the treble has remain unchanged as very neutral and airy.
> 
> For sure this is my final foam rolling on the mk2 for now because they sound great now with or without adding EQ on top (especially with some slight EQ) but overall just really amazing combo IMO.


Can't agree more, thin foams is what corresponds the best to my MK2 pair too (since the beginning).
Personally, I found those thin foams also sounding the best on my PK32 pair. The VE thin foams is what I enjoy the best on all my earbuds for now (EMX500S too). Heigi ones are very good quality but definitely too thick so brings more bass and hides details that most of our earbuds don't really need.
I also enjoyed heigi donut foams on my PK32 but soundstage was impacted, and as too much bass was impacting also the highs a bit, where PK32 needs thin foams to nicely explain it's clarity.
PK32 has very good highs but not fatiguing, kind of analogue sound. Maybe it will be the only negative point I can found them (missing a bit of details in highs).


----------



## Carrow

Has anybody over my side of the world (Ireland/UK) been having issues receiving stuff from places like Singapore particularly recently? My Blur Ultimate Brokee prototype set still isn't here and the Irish postal service has informed me I could be waiting a while. I don't know if they've cleared customs or whatever, they're just entirely in limbo. Be nice to go one week without dealing with crap like this.


----------



## capnjack

Carrow said:


> Has anybody over my side of the world (Ireland/UK) been having issues receiving stuff from places like Singapore particularly recently? My Blur Ultimate Brokee prototype set still isn't here and the Irish postal service has informed me I could be waiting a while. I don't know if they've cleared customs or whatever, they're just entirely in limbo. Be nice to go one week without dealing with crap like this.


I never had a problem with the 2 pairs of Blur buds I ordered to UK both took about 8-10 days to get here. VE stuff usually is about the same, AliExpress however can be anywhere from 2-6 weeks though.


----------



## redkingjoe

chaiyuta said:


> Unfortunately, I own PS100-600S and PS100-500 and both are 2.5 mm. plug. Do you mean MMCX cable + 3.5 mm SE plug? Sorry I don't own even a single MMCX cable. I go toward 2-pin path~ By the way, there are many choices in aftermarket cables. My suggestion is if you are interested to get any OCC cable, please avoid any OCC self-claimed cable from China. They cheat. AFAIK OCC-certified cable factory are located in Japan, Taiwan and Hongkong, no more than these. Though it doesn't mean those fake OCC cables from China are all not good SQ.
> 
> To get K's Poseidon, you have no choice but have to wait it pops up on the second-hand resale market..



 

Isn’t it a joke to have a cable that long for mmcx connections?

The whole point of a mmcx cable is to use some super cable to connect the earbuds to source!


----------



## chaiyuta

Haha, I guess you can consult with Mr. Peng to make it shorten. The good thing is it lets air-flow go in-out via a cable hole of housing. 

The second picture is so called "Siam Earbuds", One of the interesting Thai budget earbuds~


----------



## DAndrew

Hello, can anyone with a CAX ZoomFred give their impressions of them and how they fare against other TOTL earbuds?


----------



## Carrow

capnjack said:


> I never had a problem with the 2 pairs of Blur buds I ordered to UK both took about 8-10 days to get here. VE stuff usually is about the same, AliExpress however can be anywhere from 2-6 weeks though.



Damn it all. Yeah the last VE order I placed got here in like a week. I don't think I'm getting these before my refund cutoff point. I told Wong I'd ask for my money back if I didn't have them by next Tuesday July 3rd (about a month since ordered) and then pay him right back if they show up. This sucks but I can't really do anything else.


----------



## redkingjoe

chaiyuta said:


> Haha, I guess you can consult with Mr. Peng to make it shorten. The good thing is it lets air-flow go in-out via a cable hole of housing.
> 
> The second picture is so called "Siam Earbuds", One of the interesting Thai budget earbuds~


You are really earbuds king...you know everything 

I am looking for a few good mmcx cable...the candidates are:
1 beat audio pd8
2 effect audio Thor 2
3 labkable 
4 siltech 
5 wireworld nano platinum
6 nordost red hxxxxxxxx2 
7 crystal cable piccolo 2.

I think it would be interesting to fit a TOTL earbud head on it! The PS100-600s is very promising!

We might also see more TOTL earbud heads in 2019!


----------



## seanc6441

Any way to buy TOTL earbuds from the USA? Asking for someone who is looking for an earbud for gaming but needs to buy it from the USA.

Any help is appreciated thanks!


----------



## chaiyuta (Jun 26, 2018)

OMG!! your choice is so hardcore. You could find any talk-of-the-town IEM cable on this thread. I helped Mr. flinkenick sum-up the asia cable company list. Hope this helps. That Siam Earbuds (without cable) is very budget around $15- $20.

This year is not finished yet. I am look forward to seeing the newest flaghship of UCOTECH earbuds soon.


----------



## fairx (Jun 26, 2018)

Received my Inntakhifi blue v2 earbud this morning. The package been pressed hard during shipment but the earbud survived being stored in the case. I laugh really hard when I found how the case looks like pancake  when unboxing.

I'm convinced the bud is the same as t-music v2. And the sound is wonderful for the price. Might even be a winner since it's just started burning yet sound so good..

An upgrade miles over vido IMO. Wider stage, cleaner more extended highs, higher quality and well controlled bass. Maybe mids a little recessed. But no issue even if pushed louder. Clear vocal without sibilance. Scale well with amp and better dac.  Tried both thin foams and donut that came with it. It sounded nice without foam albeit a little thin. Donuts brings the best bass without sacrificing overall sound.

If there anybody who crave for t-music v2 but have problem purchasing from official store, the inntakhifi store is your answer.

Will burn & update soon, if it's worth updating.


----------



## waynes world

chaiyuta said:


> OMG!! your choice is so hardcore. You could find any talk-of-the-town IEM cable on this thread. I helped Mr. flinkenick sum-up the asia cable company list. Hope this helps. That Siam Earbuds (without cable) is very budget around $15- $20.
> 
> This year is not finished yet. I am look forward to seeing the newest flaghship of UCOTECH earbuds soon.



Interesting thread. I had to stop reading it though when I got to this lol:

"Moving up the area of $700 – $1000 cables, the price range I consider ‘top-of-the-line’ for cables."


----------



## doggiemom

DAndrew said:


> Hello, can anyone with a CAX ZoomFred give their impressions of them and how they fare against other TOTL earbuds?


In the interest of full disclosure, Cypherus Audio is hands down my favorite earbud manufacturer (though it is really just one guy).  All the models are different, but to me their products consistently come as close to full sized cans in terms of soundstage and detail as could be expected in an earbud.  Not sure what other earbuds you are looking at, but you can look at my profile for a (relatively) up to date list of other stuff I have and don't listen to that often, and I can be more specific if there is something you are considering.

The ZoomFred was initially too bright for me, but the highs have mellowed over time.  It took a long, long time too.......... Herry did say that extended burn in is needed for these because of some properties of the cable.  (?)  Great placement of instruments and really satisfying bass.  The cable is weird though.  The part between the splitter and connector looks like an ethernet cable.  It is also a bit heavy.   I do like the different colored wires that make it easy to distinguish left and right.  They are revealing and really need a good recording, good DAC, and good amp to do them justice.  

If you are looking for buds for portable use, I'd recommend the CampFred 2 over the ZoomFred.  I listen to the CampFred 2 more than any of the other buds I have (and more than my full sized cans because I'm rarely home these days).  You could also try Blue Darth first if you are new to CAX products and want to get some idea of their house sound before putting down bigger $ for ZoomFred.  

I hope this helps!


----------



## jogawag (Jun 27, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> In the interest of full disclosure, Cypherus Audio is hands down my favorite earbud manufacturer (though it is really just one guy).  .......... Herry did say that extended burn in is needed for these...


BTW, how is the sound of "Docomo / HCK buds" which needs 100 hours burn-in?


----------



## Razorbud

there are some earbuds that people have claimed to provide a “headphone like experience”. Which earbud would you all say is the best one that does that?


----------



## redkingjoe

chaiyuta said:


> OMG!! your choice is so hardcore. You could find any talk-of-the-town IEM cable on this thread. I helped Mr. flinkenick sum-up the asia cable company list. Hope this helps. That Siam Earbuds (without cable) is very budget around $15- $20.
> 
> This year is not finished yet. I am look forward to seeing the newest flaghship of UCOTECH earbuds soon.



Thanks for your kindness.

1 I’m an audiophile playing with cables for 30+ years. Powercord, interconnect, digital, speaker cable, all internal cables inside the hifi! 

2 the first earbuds that I bought 30 years ago has Litz class 1 lc-ofc ( which is similar to the litz occ copper)! 

I knew how important the cable is. Actually when I read pages in this thread, a $5 monk upgraded with great cable become a TOTL. The Shozy Bk uses a common shell with an ordinary diaphragm with superior cable to get great TOTL sound. 

Earbuds for these years have been extremely constrained by the quality of the cable. To me I think it is unhealthy to chase after the “whole earbuds” coz a lot of the earbuds are still using cheap cables.

I am thinking of feeding EBX, Sara pro, PS100-600 with one TOTL mmcx to see how good can a “earbuds” go!

UCOTECH? Dual dome is really interesting! Any MMCX model?


----------



## chaiyuta

UCOTECH never did earbuds mmcx model, and I afraid the next coming model is still not detachable type.  To buy UCOTECH products, you might try to contact the admin of UCOTECH fb page. 

By the way, Last Satarday, The oBravo 2018 IEM cable contest was held by oBravo and K Studio in Thailnand. I find that one candidate making unique-appearance cables for earbuds. Take a look~



 

Source : https://www.facebook.com/obravothai/posts/230259867705764


----------



## waynes world

redkingjoe said:


> I am thinking of feeding EBX, Sara pro, PS100-600 with one TOTL mmcx to see how good can a “earbuds” go!



I'm afraid to ask, but how much do you think that is going to cost you?


----------



## astenlet

Razorbud said:


> there are some earbuds that people have claimed to provide a “headphone like experience”. Which earbud would you all say is the best one that does that?


From all the earbuds i have heard the most resembling headphone is the CAX Red dragon. I still cannot forget how that earbuds sound like that. There are only 1 Red Dragon in the world currently and they are in the hands of Mr Danneq.


----------



## astenlet

doggiemom said:


> In the interest of full disclosure, Cypherus Audio is hands down my favorite earbud manufacturer (though it is really just one guy).  All the models are different, but to me their products consistently come as close to full sized cans in terms of soundstage and detail as could be expected in an earbud.  Not sure what other earbuds you are looking at, but you can look at my profile for a (relatively) up to date list of other stuff I have and don't listen to that often, and I can be more specific if there is something you are considering.
> 
> The ZoomFred was initially too bright for me, but the highs have mellowed over time.  It took a long, long time too.......... Herry did say that extended burn in is needed for these because of some properties of the cable.  (?)  Great placement of instruments and really satisfying bass.  The cable is weird though.  The part between the splitter and connector looks like an ethernet cable.  It is also a bit heavy.   I do like the different colored wires that make it easy to distinguish left and right.  They are revealing and really need a good recording, good DAC, and good amp to do them justice.
> 
> ...


For likeable sound signature i still prefer campfred 1. But in term of detail and sounstage the zoomfred is still the best in herry regular line up. But even the zoomfred it self and many other totl earbuds are no match for CAX Red Dragon. That thing is in a class of its own.


----------



## kurtextrem

redkingjoe said:


> Thanks for your kindness.
> 
> 1 I’m an audiophile playing with cables for 30+ years. Powercord, interconnect, digital, speaker cable, all internal cables inside the hifi!
> 
> ...


What could be special in cables that affects the sound and is there any proof (e.g. changed frequency graph) that one could see? If yes, could anyone show such changed frequency graph?
Shozy stated that BK uses the smallest driver of the world, so it's different to others and not just an ordinary diaphragm. I also can't imagine how Shozy BK's cable could turn something that's not even near the champions to a champions bud.


----------



## chaiyuta

@kurtextrem : Cross Lambda ever showed me FR graphs when swapping cables. I don't think you will get an answer by keep asking people here. The pseudo ears FR measurement device is not cheap. The higher price the better accuracy and better functions they are. Perhaps you might buy such kind of this device and find answer by yourselves when you go to audio shows such as CANJAM, or etc.


----------



## DAndrew

doggiemom said:


> In the interest of full disclosure, Cypherus Audio is hands down my favorite earbud manufacturer (though it is really just one guy).  All the models are different, but to me their products consistently come as close to full sized cans in terms of soundstage and detail as could be expected in an earbud.  Not sure what other earbuds you are looking at, but you can look at my profile for a (relatively) up to date list of other stuff I have and don't listen to that often, and I can be more specific if there is something you are considering.
> 
> The ZoomFred was initially too bright for me, but the highs have mellowed over time.  It took a long, long time too.......... Herry did say that extended burn in is needed for these because of some properties of the cable.  (?)  Great placement of instruments and really satisfying bass.  The cable is weird though.  The part between the splitter and connector looks like an ethernet cable.  It is also a bit heavy.   I do like the different colored wires that make it easy to distinguish left and right.  They are revealing and really need a good recording, good DAC, and good amp to do them justice.
> 
> ...



Looking at your inventory, as high end models, I have the Samsara and the Blur 300. I basically want a Blur with Samsara's bass but lately I have come to favor the Toneking TO400s over the Blurs, so I guess now its the TO400s with Samsara's bass. As I understood when you order the ZoomFred you can ask for it to be tuned a bit to your linking, is that true? 

I am interested on how their product lineup improves when you move up in price and if its worth investing. I once read that the Blue Darth is a bit muddy and overly dark but there arent really that many reviews of his products out there 
I just want to make the right decision as I need to sell almost all of my earbuds to afford one of their products.


----------



## redkingjoe

waynes world said:


> I'm afraid to ask, but how much do you think that is going to cost you?



The most expensive one is the mmcx cable. I’m planning to first get a second hand good model listed above. It might cost me us$600-800! 

The head of most earbuds are not that expensive. Indeed, I can get someone to transfer the normal one into mmcx, if needed! 

This will be a very interesting exercise! Sony did this long time ago. For example, Sony used mdr e212, 222, 232, 242, 252, 262, 272, 282, 424, 434, 444, 454, 464, 484...Sony use different diaphragm, cables, plugs, internal materials, designs to cook the sound signature.


----------



## redkingjoe

astenlet said:


> From all the earbuds i have heard the most resembling headphone is the CAX Red dragon. I still cannot forget how that earbuds sound like that. There are only 1 Red Dragon in the world currently and they are in the hands of Mr Danneq.



It seems to me that CAX red dragon uses Nordost cable for it! ( just the feel of the cable)

Seriously, I’m thinking of getting a mmcx version and than unplug the cable for ebx, ps100-600, and Sara pro!


----------



## redkingjoe

chaiyuta said:


> UCOTECH never did earbuds mmcx model, and I afraid the next coming model is still not detachable type.  To buy UCOTECH products, you might try to contact the admin of UCOTECH fb page.
> 
> By the way, Last Satarday, The oBravo 2018 IEM cable contest was held by oBravo and K Studio in Thailnand. I find that one candidate making unique-appearance cables for earbuds. Take a look~
> 
> ...



Me thinks mmcx is the most environmental friendly way to play with earbuds head!


----------



## rkw

DAndrew said:


> I basically want a Blur with Samsara's bass but lately I have come to favor the Toneking TO400s over the Blurs, so I guess now its the TO400s with Samsara's bass.


What's your opinion of the TO400? I've had mine for a couple of weeks. I find that it provides very good detail and resolution, but the overall sound is bright and completely lacking in bass.


----------



## DAndrew

rkw said:


> What's your opinion of the TO400? I've had mine for a couple of weeks. I find that it provides very good detail and resolution, but the overall sound is bright and completely lacking in bass.



Yes the sound is indeed on the bright side but imo not that much, and I wouldnt say the bass is weak but rather neutral; compared to other earbuds its definitely there. I have not have played around with foams too much but I found that the donuts improve the bass a bit.


----------



## capnjack

Razorbud said:


> there are some earbuds that people have claimed to provide a “headphone like experience”. Which earbud would you all say is the best one that does that?


For me that would be the Blur White Chocolate. Wong certainly knows how make great sounding ‘buds!


----------



## chinmie

rkw said:


> What's your opinion of the TO400? I've had mine for a couple of weeks. I find that it provides very good detail and resolution, but the overall sound is bright and completely lacking in bass.



I only listened to the TO400 briefly, but from what i remembered the sound is more dark/warmish with good treble detail, not too bright


----------



## HungryPanda

I really like the Toneking TO400, well built and designed. Sounds great amped. Comes with a nice cable. Bass is actually rather good, mid and highs are on the good side with good clarity


----------



## kurtextrem

HungryPanda said:


> I really like the Toneking TO400, well built and designed. Sounds great amped. Comes with a nice cable. Bass is actually rather good, mid and highs are on the good side with good clarity


I agree. I see similarities to the Penon BS1. I think a few pages back Sean compared TO400s vs Penon BS1. For me (EDM, German Rap and Gaming) TO400s > Penon BS1 > Shozy BK.


----------



## capnjack (Jun 27, 2018)

Deleted


----------



## TVeye (Jun 27, 2018)

redkingjoe said:


> You are really earbuds king...you know everything
> 
> I am looking for a few good mmcx cable...the candidates are:
> 1 beat audio pd8
> ...


You can add Norne Audio cable to your list.
Still not so much expensive for such a build quality and sound improvement they offer.
There is a dedicated thread on head-fi.


----------



## DAndrew

chinmie said:


> I only listened to the TO400 briefly, but from what i remembered the sound is more dark/warmish with good treble detail, not too bright



I really have to disagree , it definitely leans more on the bright side, but I guess it will vary on the source used.


----------



## DAndrew

HungryPanda said:


> I really like the Toneking TO400, well built and designed. Sounds great amped. Comes with a nice cable. Bass is actually rather good, mid and highs are on the good side with good clarity



Cable may be nice looking but thats it, the jack is cheap looking ( and feeling ), not to mention mine is not even properly braided and the connector in the left side of the cable has some weird issue that causes sound to disconnect ( for the lack of a proper word ). The buds are phenomenal and currently my favorite but I am very disappointed in the cable considering its price. 
I may have just gotten a lemon cable tho


----------



## subwoof3r (Jun 27, 2018)

My Willsound PK32 (good) pair has now officially reached 180+ hours of proper burning 
Time for a serious listen with them for the next week(s) before final conclusions. But for now it's clearly my "king of earbuds" yet!


----------



## Carrow

My Ultimate Brokee prototype is at home!!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 15, 2019)

Just ordered *Blur 美魔女 "Beautiful Witch" 300 Ω *with 3.5mm plug from Wong Kuan Wae via his Instagram @ hennagaijin_boleh7


----------



## chaiyuta

Last week, I get many sponges from my friends consisting of Chot foams : thick, normal, and thin versions, donut sponge from OURART (My friends said this one is very good), and the last one NoName Sticky sponge.

Let's see how much Noname Stick sponge can perform. I believe that all of you guys will like it~~



Spoiler: NoName Sticky sponge


----------



## mbwilson111

WoodyLuvr said:


> Just ordered *Blur 美魔女 "Beautiful Witch" 300 Ω *with 3.5mm plug from Wong Kuan Wae via his Instagram @ hennagaijin_boleh7



What does it look like?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 27, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> Last week, I get many sponges from my friends consisting of Chot foams : thick, normal, and thin versions, donut sponge from OURART (My friends said this one is very good), and the last one NoName Sticky sponge.
> 
> Let's see how much Noname Stick sponge can perform. I believe that all of you guys will like it~~


Very curious to hear how those Nonames perform.  Sometimes these generic no names really do perform like my Generic G-Cushs I use on my Nhoord Reds... I prefer them over the Grado OEM G & L-Cushs.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 10, 2021)

mbwilson111 said:


> What does it look like?


Here is a pic of the "brass edition" option... the ones I ordered will be in black plastic.


----------



## DAndrew

mbwilson111 said:


> What does it look like?



I have the Blur 300 and its a clear shell with a black cable and silver jack ( just the color ). To my knowledge thats how all 300s were made, so his may be a new version


----------



## WoodyLuvr

DAndrew said:


> I have the Blur 300 and its a clear shell with a black cable and silver jack ( just the color ). To my knowledge thats how all 300s were made, so his may be a new version


Yes, as per Wong the standard edition will now be black plastic housing and shell.


----------



## mbwilson111

capnjack said:


> For me that would be the Blur White Chocolate. Wong certainly knows how make great sounding ‘buds!



So, does that mean I can have your Blur Black Panther?


----------



## seanc6441

For people commenting about the TO400 I think with low to mid power daps it sounds emphasised in low mids and high treble over the upper mids so there is a sense of darkness but with treble clarity. I did not like it’s signature in this way tbh.

But with high power source (My R6 in balanced) or dedicated amp it sounds neutral, very neutral and no major peaks.

However in both instances I will bass is linear but under neutral meaning it’s somewhat reserved in the bass.

I have to say the cable is pretty average at best, not the most premium build quality.


----------



## the diode

If anyone is interested in the Simphonio Dragon 2+ it is available on massdrop for $240.


----------



## Carrow

Blur Ultimate Brokee prototype in the building 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Balanced output so I can only drive them off my Shanling M3s unamped (no balanced input on my Topping NX1s) but they're sounding great out of the uh... pouch. Very happy with them on initial outings!


----------



## rkw

the diode said:


> If anyone is interested in the Simphonio Dragon 2+ it is available on massdrop for $240.


What do people think of Simphonio Dragon 2+ at $257 (+CA sales tax for me) vs Shozy BK balanced at $190?


----------



## doggiemom

jogawag said:


> BTW, how is the sound of "Docomo / HCK buds" which needs 100 hours burn-in?


I don't burn anything in in a systematic way....... basically I just keep listening if I like them.    Unfortunately I haven't been home much the past few weeks, so only gave the Docomo/HCK buds a very quick listen.


astenlet said:


> For likeable sound signature i still prefer campfred 1. But in term of detail and sounstage the zoomfred is still the best in herry regular line up. But even the zoomfred it self and many other totl earbuds are no match for CAX Red Dragon. That thing is in a class of its own.


I haven't heard the CampFred1..... thought they weren't being made anymore?  I like the Black Dragon a lot, but the stiffness of the cable doesn't allow for portable use.  Even when sitting still, they will pull out if I move my head around.  Earhooks help, but I find them uncomfortable.


DAndrew said:


> Looking at your inventory, as high end models, I have the Samsara and the Blur 300. I basically want a Blur with Samsara's bass but lately I have come to favor the Toneking TO400s over the Blurs, so I guess now its the TO400s with Samsara's bass. As I understood when you order the ZoomFred you can ask for it to be tuned a bit to your linking, is that true?
> 
> I am interested on how their product lineup improves when you move up in price and if its worth investing. I once read that the Blue Darth is a bit muddy and overly dark but there arent really that many reviews of his products out there
> I just want to make the right decision as I need to sell almost all of my earbuds to afford one of their products.


I don't know about custom tuning for the ZoomFred, but you could contact Herry through Facebook or the Cypherus audio site and ask.    Yeah, I like the Samsaras a lot too.  The Blur is interesting.  I am not good at describing these things, but they are distinctive.  The bass is more prominent on the ZoomFred.


----------



## DAndrew

doggiemom said:


> I don't know about custom tuning for the ZoomFred, but you could contact Herry through Facebook or the Cypherus audio site and ask.    Yeah, I like the Samsaras a lot too.  The Blur is interesting.  I am not good at describing these things, but they are distinctive.  The bass is more prominent on the ZoomFred.



How is the bass from the ZoomFred compared to the bass of the Samsara?


----------



## chaiyuta

@RobinFood @handwander : I need your guys help agian. I look up to e-earphone blog today and I found new wired & wireless earbuds from audio-technica. Take a look, here. From their price point, they are budget earbuds and specs. Anyway, I like Blue and Pink color!! Could you guys go to trial-listening them and share your impression here?


----------



## 40760 (Jun 29, 2018)

Any recommendations for affordable earbuds with "in-line microphone" for online gaming on iOS (iPad)? Will be a plus if soundstage or positioning is good, with clear mic for in-game communications.

Was looking at these candidates:

• Fiio EM3S
• Edifier P180

All feedback and replies appreciated!

Edit: Removed Philips SHE3800 as it's unknown if the in-line controls are CTIA standard.

Edit 2: Gotten the Edifier P180 with seller discount coupon on AE.


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> • Philips SHE3800



Love my Philips SHE3800 for music but I don't know anything about gaming.  I actually have a backup pair of these  Special cheap little bud.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Has anyone been able to determine (tested) the sensitivity rating for the *Blur 美魔女 "Beautiful Witch" 300 Ω*?  Based on below I am thinking that the Blur will be higher than 105 dB SPL/mW... a guesstimate would be fine.

Similar 300 ohm earbuds have listed sensitivities as follows:

FAAEAL 水仙 "Narcissus" 2.0 300Ω = 116±3 dB/mW
K's Earphone K300 "Samsara" 300Ω = 108 dB/mW
K's Earphone K300 "Standard" 300Ω = 120±5 dB/?
TY Hi-Z F300M 300Ω = 115±3 dB/?
ToneKing HK01 300Ω = 108 dB/?
Ollivan Earburd 300Ω = 105±2 dB/?​


----------



## handwander

chaiyuta said:


> @RobinFood @handwander : I need your guys help agian. I look up to e-earphone blog today and I found new wired & wireless earbuds from audio-technica. Take a look, here. From their price point, they are budget earbuds and specs. Anyway, I like Blue and Pink color!! Could you guys go to trial-listening them and share your impression here?


Will try to remember next time I'm near e-e. Trying to avoid going in though so I don't compulsively buy something lol. These look cute though pretty budget. Not expecting that much...
https://www.phileweb.com/news/d-av/201806/28/44360.html


----------



## RobinFood

chaiyuta said:


> @RobinFood @handwander : I need your guys help
> agian. I look up to e-earphone blog today and I found new wired & wireless earbuds from audio-technica. Take a look, here. From their price point, they are budget earbuds and specs. Anyway, I like Blue and Pink color!! Could you guys go to trial-listening them and share your impression here?



Not planning to go to town for the next two or three weeks, but when I do I can give them a listen. 
Are you more interested in the Bluetooth one or the wired one? 
Bluetooth one only accepts  a2dp codex, so I can't imagine they perform super well.


----------



## RobinFood

palestofwhite said:


> Any recommendations for affordable earbuds with "in-line microphone" for online gaming on iOS (iPad)? Will be a plus if soundstage or positioning is good, with clear mic for in-game communications.
> 
> Was looking at these candidates:
> 
> ...



Headroom MS16 times a million. Best audio device for gaming I have ever had. I am currently waiting to see if the MK2 can unthrone them. 
They are open back earbuds. You can blow air through the grill and hear the driver crinkle!
They have a mic and a SUPER wide soundstage. Not great imaging, but good enough.
Footsteps are incredibly easy to hear and pinpoint, provided the room you play in is quiet (wife watching TV now, so looks like I am going to use something else tonight ...)
The cable is nice, but the rest is pretty damn cheap. 
One of the best 6$ I ever spent on impulse!


----------



## chaiyuta

@RobinFood : I am more interested on wired earbuds. wireless earbuds is a bit cause its specs said playback time is around 8 hours, though it is not apt-x or aptx-HD and I afraid connectivity issue too.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 28, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> @RobinFood @handwander : I need your guys help agian. I look up to e-earphone blog today and I found new wired & wireless earbuds from audio-technica. Take a look, here. From their price point, they are budget earbuds and specs. Anyway, I like Blue and Pink color!! Could you guys go to trial-listening them and share your impression here?



@chaiyuta @RobinFood @handwander
FYI
These will not be released until 13 JULY; typically (in the past) AT releases demos to be showcased the week of release... I actually planned a quick hop over to Japan back in 2016 so I could audition the ATH-A2000Z when it came out.  As per AT customer service they released the model for listening at stores the week of for reservation orders. Never made it to Japan that time due to emergency call-up and then on my way back home I bought myself a pair of B&O H6s at the airport.

Might not work that way for AT's lower tier models though.


----------



## Slmes

subwoof3r said:


> Can't agree more, thin foams is what corresponds the best to my MK2 pair too (since the beginning).
> Personally, I found those thin foams also sounding the best on my PK32 pair. The VE thin foams is what I enjoy the best on all my earbuds for now (EMX500S too). Heigi ones are very good quality but definitely too thick so brings more bass and hides details that most of our earbuds don't really need.
> I also enjoyed heigi donut foams on my PK32 but soundstage was impacted, and as too much bass was impacting also the highs a bit, where PK32 needs thin foams to nicely explain it's clarity.
> PK32 has very good highs but not fatiguing, kind of analogue sound. Maybe it will be the only negative point I can found them (missing a bit of details in highs).


I'm sorry but my MK2 came with some white and red/blue foams, I don't feel any foams is really thin, which one of them is "thin foams"?


----------



## 40760

Slmes said:


> I'm sorry but my MK2 came with some white and red/blue foams, I don't feel any foams is really thin, which one of them is "thin foams"?



MK2 usually comes with the thin black foams. When asked, Willy himself pointed me to the AE dollar foams that were shared in the previous posts. I assume they're those.


----------



## Slmes

palestofwhite said:


> MK2 usually comes with the thin black foams. When asked, Willy himself pointed me to the AE dollar foams that were shared in the previous posts. I assume they're those.


Thank you, just searched mk2 review and find out my mk2 mistakenly came with mk1 rev2 white foams.


----------



## dheepak10 (Jun 28, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> Can't agree more, thin foams is what corresponds the best to my MK2 pair too (since the beginning).
> Personally, I found those thin foams also sounding the best on my PK32 pair. The VE thin foams is what I enjoy the best on all my earbuds for now (EMX500S too). Heigi ones are very good quality but definitely too thick so brings more bass and hides details that most of our earbuds don't really need.
> I also enjoyed heigi donut foams on my PK32 but soundstage was impacted, and as too much bass was impacting also the highs a bit, where PK32 needs thin foams to nicely explain it's clarity.
> PK32 has very good highs but not fatiguing, kind of analogue sound. Maybe it will be the only negative point I can found them (missing a bit of details in highs).



Agree with you. Just a small difference in my preference - I use MK2 without foams as its already quite warm.
For PK32, this is what I noticed - with the MK2 thin foams, they sound fine but the bass impact is lacking. With the stock white foams, the sound is slightly muddied, especially the lower frequencies.

I use donut foams ordered off Ali, similar to hiegi ones, but slightly thinner. Though the foams are a bit denser than the MK2 thin foams, they make the sound quite balanced with good bass impact while not sacrificing highs and sound stage.

Will do another round of foam comparison before I use the best one for review.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

dheepak10 said:


> Agree with you. Just a small difference in my preference - I use MK2 without foams as its already quite warm.
> For PK32, this is what I noticed - with the MK2 thin foams, they sound fine but the bass impact is lacking. With the stock white foams, the sound is slightly muddied, especially the lower frequencies.
> 
> I use donut foams ordered off Ali, similar to hiegi ones, but slightly thinner. Though the foams are a bit denser than the MK2 thin foams, they make the sound quite balanced with good bass impact while not sacrificing highs and sound stage.
> ...


If you have a minute or so take a few pics of the foams you ordered/testing and share them on this thread.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 28, 2018)

palestofwhite said:


> MK2 usually comes with the thin black foams. When asked, Willy himself pointed me to the AE dollar foams that were shared in the previous posts. I assume they're those.


they are different. AE thin foams and Willsound thin foams are not the same. I much prefer AE thin foams on the mk2 as they are slighty denser and give a better seal for sub bass whilst retaining clarity and a better balance of sound to my ears.


----------



## 40760 (Jun 28, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> they are different. AE thin foams and Willsound thin foams are not the same. I much prefer AE thin foams on the mk2 as they are slighty denser and give a better seal for sub bass whilst retaining clarity and a better balance of sound to my ears.



I have 2 packs of the AE foams and they are not equal. I've taken 2 pcs randomly and one is seemingly denser than the other. I suspect it's QC and luck at play.

Of course, not to mention the 30% of those that are defective out of the pack when I sorted them out...


----------



## silverfishla

I just ordered the new BGVP DX3s.  I have the DX3, and find it...pretty good (sorry for the general assessment there).  The reason why I decided to get the new DX3s is because it is "equipped with powerful N45 magnetic rubidium and high Fibre ball composite dynamic driver unit."  That's a quote from the description.  Whaaaaat is thaaaaat?  I needed to know!


----------



## chaiyuta

I likes its front cover of DX3s. Just FYI, the highest magnetic strength in earbuds driver is N55... It could be said that N45 is pretty low~. To approximate how its stregth, you could try by facing both L and R buds upfront together and feel magnetic strength. If I remember correct, Puresounds PS100-600 is N55. and Among earbuds I ever tried, PS100-600 is the number one strongest. Though.. just magnetic strength doesn't mean it will sound good or not, but it can ensure that its bass impact is very high.


----------



## seanc6441

palestofwhite said:


> I have 2 packs of the AE foams and they are not equal. I've taken 2 pcs randomly and one is seemingly denser than the other. I suspect it's QC and luck at play.
> 
> Of course, not to mention the 30% of those that are defective out of the pack when I sorted them out...


That's true the foams are not uniform but on average they seem thicker and different than mk2 thin foams on the 3 packs I bought on AE.

The thicker/denser of the AE foams are good for the mk2 then, in my opinion.


----------



## silverfishla

chaiyuta said:


> I likes its front cover of DX3s. Just FYI, the highest magnetic strength in earbuds driver is N55... It could be said that N45 is pretty low~. To approximate how its stregth, you could try by facing both L and R buds upfront together and feel magnetic strength. If I remember correct, Puresounds PS100-600 is N55. and Among earbuds I ever tried, PS100-600 is the number one strongest. Though.. just magnetic strength doesn't mean it will sound good or not, but it can ensure that its bass impact is very high.


Magnet shmagnet...rubidium fiber ball composite driver!  What the hell is that?  Can you name me another...anything with a rubidium fiber ball composite driver?  My curiosity got the best of me!  Hahaha


----------



## chaiyuta

Please don't rely on Google translate much. it always translate many words in a silly way~ To clearly understand, you need to learn Chinese~


----------



## HungryPanda

silverfishla said:


> I just ordered the new BGVP DX3s.  I have the DX3, and find it...pretty good (sorry for the general assessment there).  The reason why I decided to get the new DX3s is because it is "equipped with powerful N45 magnetic rubidium and high Fibre ball composite dynamic driver unit."  That's a quote from the description.  Whaaaaat is thaaaaat?  I needed to know!


 I did the same but unfortunately when removing cable from DX3 to put on DX3s I ripped the socket out of the right earbud


----------



## silverfishla

chaiyuta said:


> Please don't rely on Google translate much. it always translate many words in a silly way~ To clearly understand, you need to learn Chinese~


Actually, I was hoping that the driver in this unit would be something like a paper cone or fiber material type driver.  I ordered some wool drivers from Ali a while ago to make some DIY earbuds.  I found that the wool ones sounded super natural, like a paper cone speaker.  Hoping these will have a similar characteristic, which was warm and natural throughout the treble and bass.  Midrange was a very natural and acoustic vocal presentation.  It's really a crapshoot on this one, since I haven't seen any reviews...


----------



## silverfishla

HungryPanda said:


> I did the same but unfortunately when removing cable from DX3 to put on DX3s I ripped the socket out of the right earbud


How did the dx3s sound?


----------



## 40760

HungryPanda said:


> I did the same but unfortunately when removing cable from DX3 to put on DX3s I ripped the socket out of the right earbud



Did you manage to arrange to send them back and get them fixed?


----------



## subwoof3r

Definitely, we can all agree that the right choice of foams may significantly change sound signature.
Personally on my PK32 (replacement pair), it came with black thin foams, but the ones I prefer are from VE pack which are my best because they are even more thinner.
Strangely, the other black foams pack included in PK32 looks like VE thin foams (currently trying them and I can't see any difference with VE ones).
My PK32 good pair coupled with those thin foams have now 200+ hours and having no problem with clarity and details in highs (contrary to before)


----------



## jant71 (Jun 28, 2018)

Might be fun to try, AT has a new cheap bud, the C200is...





Seems halfway between normal buds and earpod style...





Might work well and perhaps spawn higher models. At least it is something from AT which hasn't put out a new bud for quite a while. Not the usual 13.5mm in the lower model. This time we have a 12mm.


----------



## groucho69

RobinFood said:


> Headroom MS16 times a million. Best audio device for gaming I have ever had. I am currently waiting to see if the MK2 can unthrone them.
> They are open back earbuds. You can blow air through the grill and hear the driver crinkle!
> They have a mic and a SUPER wide soundstage. Not great imaging, but good enough.
> Footsteps are incredibly easy to hear and pinpoint, provided the room you play in is quiet (wife watching TV now, so looks like I am going to use something else tonight ...)
> ...



Huh? And I tossed mine in the bin.


----------



## doggiemom

DAndrew said:


> How is the bass from the ZoomFred compared to the bass of the Samsara?


Samsara is boomy and prominent and would probably be preferable for bass heads or listening in a noisy environment.  ZoomFred is cleaner and probably better extension (though I haven't listened to the Samsaras for a few weeks).


----------



## mbwilson111

groucho69 said:


> Huh? And I tossed mine in the bin.



Why would you do that?  Someone would have wanted them.


----------



## tim0chan

rkw said:


> What do people think of Simphonio Dragon 2+ at $257 (+CA sales tax for me) vs Shozy BK balanced at $190?


I also wanna know since there's a drop for the dragon


----------



## DAndrew

doggiemom said:


> Samsara is boomy and prominent and would probably be preferable for bass heads or listening in a noisy environment.  ZoomFred is cleaner and probably better extension (though I haven't listened to the Samsaras for a few weeks).



I see, thank you. How do the mids and highs compare to the blur?


----------



## HungryPanda

palestofwhite said:


> Did you manage to arrange to send them back and get them fixed?


They messaged me and said to return by to China by courier. I will just try and fix them myself


----------



## WoodyLuvr

How about a "_guesstimate_*"* on the sensitivity rating (SPL dB/mW) of other *Blur 300 Ω *earbuds... anyone?  This is in continuation to my other post *here*.


----------



## RobinFood (Jun 29, 2018)

Bluetooth earbuds anyone?




I haven't gotten the clip for my m0, so I am just using a caribiner clip for now, but my short-cabled Willsound MK2 are in, and so far they sound amazing!

I am still getting used to them, but compared to the Yincrow X6 I was using as a primary bud, they sound so...BIG! I don't know how else to explain it, other than the sound is HUGE, but all the details are right there even if the bass is nice and thick.


----------



## mbwilson111

RobinFood said:


> Bluetooth earbuds anyone?
> 
> 
> I haven't gotten the clip for my m0, so I am just using a caribiner clip for now, but my short-cabled Willsound MK2 are in, and so far they sound amazing!
> ...



That is the only way I can describe certain buds and iems.... BIG... more like headphones.


----------



## RobinFood (Jun 29, 2018)

They don't sound so good naked though, vocals sounded a little unnatural. I also got tired the white foam, felt like female vocals were hurting. Now I am trying the thin pads from VE I had lying around. Very nice balance...but I can feel that they will get scratchy soon :S

Edit: back to naked...needed more sexy upper mids...still want a little more violin and piano texture, but maybe it will come in as they burn in...


----------



## RobinFood




----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 29, 2018)

RobinFood said:


> They don't sound so good naked though, vocals sounded a little unnatural. I also got tired the white foam, felt like female vocals were hurting. Now I am trying the thin pads from VE I had lying around. Very nice balance...but I can feel that they will get scratchy soon :S
> 
> Edit: back to naked...needed more sexy upper mids...still want a little more violin and piano texture, but maybe it will come in as they burn in...


Try the AE thin blacks foams and/or EQ. Once I took down the mid bass to low mids slightly the clarity improved drastically with strings and other instruments. Vocals were sweeter too.


----------



## 40760

RobinFood said:


>



Such lovely cables... I wonder if all the MK comes in these wires from now onwards...


----------



## WoodyLuvr

seanc6441 said:


> Try the AE thin blacks foams and/or EQ. Once I took down the mid bass to low mids slightly the clarity improved drastically with strings and other instruments. Vocals were sweeter too.


If possible would you please attach a screen shot of that equalizer setting you speak of.


----------



## RobinFood

seanc6441 said:


> Try the AE thin blacks foams and/or EQ. Once I took down the mid bass to low mids slightly the clarity improved drastically with strings and other instruments. Vocals were sweeter too.



Wish I could EQ, but Shanling M0's EQ isn't really functional at the moment.
Do you have a link to the thin black foams? I might try them, but enjoying the nake buds now...feel like it's different than when I first used them naked a few hours ago...


----------



## RobinFood

palestofwhite said:


> Such lovely cables... I wonder if all the MK comes in these wires from now onwards...



I'm not sure, but I did request a custom length of 40 cm, which might be the reason it is different.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 29, 2018)

WoodyLuvr said:


> If possible would you please attach a screen shot of that equalizer setting you speak of.


Sure no problem

125hz Gain= -1.2db Q=0.52
2600hz Gain= -1.0db Q=2.5
*14000hz Gain=0.5db (High shelf)






*The last one is just an optional treble boost to give a slightly crisper top end. I'd mess around with that one though as it isn't quite were I'd like it but it's what I'm using currently. 

Edit... Sorry showed an older EQ I did here's the most recent one I'm using above.


----------



## 40760

RobinFood said:


> Wish I could EQ, but Shanling M0's EQ isn't really functional at the moment.
> Do you have a link to the thin black foams? I might try them, but enjoying the nake buds now...feel like it's different than when I first used them naked a few hours ago...



Here you go...


----------



## RobinFood

palestofwhite said:


> Here you go...



Well, I'll be damned, 3 sets of those were included in my MK2 case!
Thanks for the link.


----------



## seanc6441

RobinFood said:


> Well, I'll be damned, 3 sets of those were included in my MK2 case!
> Thanks for the link.


I think those are different but that's just my opinion. The AE thin foams provided me better bass quantity and a more natural midrange tonality


----------



## RobinFood

seanc6441 said:


> I think those are different but that's just my opinion. The AE thin foams provided me better bass quantity and a more natural midrange tonality



Not much to lose at 94 cents on Ali Express. I might give them a try!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

seanc6441 said:


> Sure no problem
> 
> 125hz Gain= -1.2db Q=0.52
> 2600hz Gain= -1.0db Q=2.5
> ...



Have you found that to be a fairly uniform setting for many of your ear buds?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 29, 2018)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Have you found that to be a fairly uniform setting for many of your ear buds?


Not at all to be honest. I have a general ‘signature’ in my mind that I enjoy but to apply it to my earbuds I need to make custom settings for each one.

For instance here is my Rose Mojito (with new VE thin foams) EQ settings





It's a work of trial and error, listening to a frequency sweep to check for peaks/dips and the fine tuning by ear the smaller adjustments.

Like anything I found the more I experimented the better understanding I had for which frequencies to adjust. The less time I had to waste trying to find which area's to tweak.

Of course even EQ'd to my preferences each earbud will still have it's own colouration and sound characteristics but I try to get the best out of each earbud for balance/timbre and clarity.


----------



## seanc6441

WoodyLuvr said:


> Have you found that to be a fairly uniform setting for many of your ear buds?


Which earbuds did you have in mind?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

seanc6441 said:


> Which earbuds did you have in mind?


Just curiosity.  Will play with my EQs and DSPs in foobar2k once I receive my Blurs.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 29, 2018)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Just curiosity.  Will play with my EQs and DSPs in foobar2k once I receive my Blurs.


EQ can go a long way with earbuds imo. You can gain soundstage, bass depth/control and in some instances some treble sparkle. Especially with good quality drivers.

I didn't love my Mojito or K's ling before EQ now they are phenomenal to my ears!

Next I'll try my shozy BK once I get my balanced to 3.5mm adapter. It's so linear but if I can add some presence in the sub bass and treble without distortion I'll be very happy. The soundstage will improve too the less mid centric a signature becomes.


----------



## Carrow

jant71 said:


> Might be fun to try, AT has a new cheap bud, the C200is...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This looks like a Sony ED21. and I for one am hyped about that style of earbud being available again.


----------



## DBaldock9 (Jun 29, 2018)

WoodyLuvr said:


> How about a "_guesstimate_*"* on the sensitivity rating (SPL dB/mW) of other *Blur 300 Ω *earbuds... anyone?  This is in continuation to my other post *here*.



When I get home from work this evening, I'll try a comparison of my Wong Kuan Wae "Blur 魔音" (2.5TRRS), 300Ω earbuds, and some of my other earbuds (with published sensitivity specs).
.
My other "higher impedance" earbuds, are:
1.) TY Hi-Z HP650 (2.5mm TRRS) - 650Ω, 120dB/mW, 12Hz-24KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable
2.) K's 500-Ohm v2 (2.5TRRS) - 500Ω, 110dB/mW, 10Hz-35KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable
3.) MusicMaker ToneKing TO400 - 400Ω, 112dB/mW, 10Hz-32KHz, Metal housing, 1x Dynamic, MMCX cable
4.) MusicMaker ToneKing TO200 - 200Ω, 113dB/mW, 12Hz-33KHz, Metal housing, 1x Dynamic, MMCX cable
5.) VE Asura 2.0 (2.5TRRS) - 150Ω, 120dB/mW, 8Hz-25KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable
6.) Svara-L - 115Ω, 98dB/mW, 8Hz-25KHz, Metal housing, 1x Dynamic, MMCX cable
7.) VE Monk Plus Espresso (2.5TRRS) - 64Ω, 122dB/mW, 20Hz-20KHz, Plastic housing, 1x Dynamic, Tethered cable

I'm not sure how the power output changes on my DP-X1, when presented with that range of impedances, though.


----------



## HungryPanda

@DBaldock9 would you happen to know how many ohms has Wong's black panther


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> @DBaldock9 would you happen to know how many ohms has Wong's black panther



No - don't remember what he said about it, on the "_Earbuds Anonymous_" Facebook group, when he introduced it.
But, I suspect that if it's fairly new, it's probably in the 32Ω - 150Ω range.


----------



## mbwilson111

DBaldock9 said:


> No - don't remember what he said about it, on the "_Earbuds Anonymous_" Facebook group, when he introduced it.
> But, I suspect that if it's fairly new, it's probably in the 32Ω - 150Ω range.



I was just searching the group for that info... found posts where he had introduced it but saw no specs.  Guess who has one on the way  (ordered anyway... maybe not on the way yet).  I wonder if he provides tracking numbers.


----------



## capnjack

RobinFood said:


> They don't sound so good naked though, vocals sounded a little unnatural. I also got tired the white foam, felt like female vocals were hurting. Now I am trying the thin pads from VE I had lying around. Very nice balance...but I can feel that they will get scratchy soon :S
> 
> Edit: back to naked...needed more sexy upper mids...still want a little more violin and piano texture, but maybe it will come in as they burn in...


Put some clothes on, this is a respectable site! lol! Sorry couldn’t resist it


----------



## capnjack

WoodyLuvr said:


> Just curiosity.  Will play with my EQs and DSPs in foobar2k once I receive my Blurs.


Which blur did you order?


----------



## DBaldock9

mbwilson111 said:


> I was just searching the group for that info... found posts where he had introduced it but saw no specs.  Guess who has one on the way  (ordered anyway... maybe not on the way yet).  I wonder if he provides tracking numbers.



If you want a tracking number, ask for one.  
Wong was very social - answering a number of questions, via Facebook PM, when I was considering ordering the earbuds I bought - and also explaining how he used a modified Neutrik plug, to create the small profile right-angle 2.5mm TRRS plugs.  He uses a "rubber" based epoxy, which is apparently available in Asia, but I haven't been able to track it down, here in the USA.


----------



## mbwilson111

DBaldock9 said:


> If you want a tracking number, ask for one.
> Wong was very social - answering a number of questions, via Facebook PM, when I was considering ordering the earbuds I bought - and also explaining how he used a modified Neutrik plug, to create the small profile right-angle 2.5mm TRRS plugs.  He uses a "rubber" based epoxy, which is apparently available in Asia, but I haven't been able to track it down, here in the USA.



My Black Panther will have a regular 3.5mm straight  plug.  I prefer straight plugs on all my gear but of course I often have no choice.  Just works out better ergonomically for me.  Really looking forward to them.  The shell looks comfortable and I know I will like the sound.


----------



## RobinFood

capnjack said:


> Put some clothes on, this is a respectable site! lol! Sorry couldn’t resist it



Haha, just imagining someone removing all their clothes listening to their earbuds, listening for sound differences!
Sounds much better without underwear!


----------



## DBaldock9

WoodyLuvr said:


> How about a "_guesstimate_*"* on the sensitivity rating (SPL dB/mW) of other *Blur 300 Ω *earbuds... anyone?  This is in continuation to my other post *here*.



Before I read your linked post, I did a comparison with a few of my earbuds (that have published sensitivity specs), and I believe that my Wong Kuan Wae "Blur 魔音" (2.5TRRS) 300Ω is in the range of 105dB - 108dB /mW, being driven by the Balanced Output of my Onkyo DP-X1B.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 30, 2018)

capnjack said:


> Which blur did you order?


I ordered the *Blur 美魔女 "Beautiful Witch" 300Ω* with a 3.5mm plug; thanks again @capnjack for steering in me the "Blur" direction 



DBaldock9 said:


> Before I read your linked post, I did a comparison with a few of my earbuds (that have published sensitivity specs), and I believe that my Wong Kuan Wae "Blur 魔音" (2.5TRRS) 300Ω is in the range of 105dB - 108dB /mW, being driven by the Balanced Output of my Onkyo DP-X1B.


Sincerely appreciate your checking that out for me @DBaldock9; many thanks good man.  I was thinking that I might need to get my O2 headphone amp back from my best friend in California but now with your information I think my DragonFly will be more than fine if the earbud is 105 dB or higher...

*AudioQuest DragonFly Black 1.5* - Power Output & Impedance: *1.3* Vrms (*1.85 *Vmax; *3.68* Vp-p) @ *0.61* ohms
*Blur 美魔女 "Beautiful Witch" 300 Ω* - Impedance & Sensitivity: *300* ohms @ *~105* db/mW SPL (~*110* dB/V SPL)

i.) DragonFly Black Power Output with Blur 美魔女 300 Ω: (*1.3* Vrms * *1.3 *Vrms)/300 ohms = *5.6* mW (Pmax)
ii.) SPL from Power for Blur 美魔女 300Ω & DragonFly Black: *105* dB/mW + 10 * LOG (*5.6 *mW Pmax) = *112.5* peak dB/mW
iii.) SPL from Voltage for Blur 美魔女 300Ω & DragonFly Black: *110* dB/V + 20 * LOG (*1.3* Vrms) = *112.3 *peak dB/V​


DBaldock9 said:


> ...Wong was very social - answering a number of questions, via Facebook PM, when I was considering ordering the earbuds I bought - and also explaining how he used a...


Concur, Wong has been extremely friendly and responsive with me as well; one can immediately tell how passionate he is about his earbuds!



HungryPanda said:


> @DBaldock9 would you happen to know how many ohms has Wong's black panther





DBaldock9 said:


> No - don't remember what he said about it, on the "_Earbuds Anonymous_" Facebook group, when he introduced it.
> But, I suspect that if it's fairly new, it's probably in the 32Ω - 150Ω range.





mbwilson111 said:


> ...found posts where he had introduced it but saw no specs...


Below (attachment) is what Wong shared with me regarding his Black Panthers: I take it that "modified from docomo earbuds" means the Docomo DIY PK1 series which are *16 32 150Ω*, that is if I am not grossly mistaken.  Unfortunately, besides impedance I don't think he has much information as I asked him about the response and sensitivity of the Blur 美魔女 300Ω that I ordered and he quickly and honestly replied that he didn't have those exact specs.  I wonder what drivers he is using and from where... China, Taiwan, or Japan??? I thought about asking him but refrained as I didn't want to come across as a "cheeky monkey".



Spoiler: Attached Screen Capture


----------



## snip3r77

Just wondering how much does Blur stuff costs? Is it better than Willsound?


----------



## RobinFood

Finally, everything fits really nicely in a case! I don't have to carry two cases around!

 



I have been listening almost semi-nonstop to the MK2 since yesterday. I carry the player in my shirt pocket now and it is just long enough.

I went back to the Yincrow X6 and noticed a lot of details were missing in the low end I never noticed before! Looks like I ruined another pair of buds.

The MK2 reminds me of my A900s, without the super hot cups. I enjoy them, and will probably get the pk32 soon! They are absolutely amazing, but I want more mids with the same extension and detail, so I can concentrate on lyrics more easily.


----------



## mbwilson111

RobinFood said:


> Finally, everything fits really nicely in a case! I don't have to carry two cases around!



I keep seeing photos of that little purple thing in multiple threads... why do I want it? Maybe because it is so cute and so purple   I already have several daps and two of them are small...the Hidizs AP60 II and the Ruizu A50.


----------



## RobinFood

mbwilson111 said:


> I keep seeing photos of that little purple thing in multiple threads... why do I want it? Maybe because it is so cute and so purple   I already have several daps and two of them are small...the Hidizs AP60 II and the Ruizu A50.



It's my first dap, but it was either that with the clip case or the radsone earstudio...with kids it's important to keep out of their little arm's reach!
That being said, it is pretty awesome. I have a crappy phone, so it sounds much better than what I had before!


----------



## 40760

Replacement PK32 has reached the country... can't wait for next week!


----------



## jogawag

palestofwhite said:


> Replacement PK32 has reached the country... can't wait for next week!


But after arrival, you have to wait for another four days (100 hours) burn-in ...


----------



## Lionheart24

Hey guys, any recommendations for earbuds that are analog sounding with clear and transparent mids and sweet treble? Budget can go up to $100 and I will pair it with the Hiby R3, so 2.5 balanced buds are definitely welcome.


----------



## RobinFood

jogawag said:


> But after arrival, you have to wait for another four days (100 hours) burn-in ...



Don't people burn in new buds by obsessively listening to them for a week or two?


----------



## 40760

Lucky I'm the kind that just listens to them out of the box while they burn in...


----------



## jogawag (Jun 30, 2018)

RobinFood said:


> Don't people burn in new buds by obsessively listening to them for a week or two?





palestofwhite said:


> Lucky I'm the kind that just listens to them out of the box while they burn in...


I think that the time required for burn-in differs depending on Earbuds.
MK2.2 was enough for about 10 hours burn-in.
However, Willy told PK32 that the burn-in time was at least 100 hours, and in fact the trend of sound changed many times during that time. You can enjoy it.


----------



## 40760

jogawag said:


> I think that the time required for burn-in differs depending on Earbuds.
> MK2.2 was enough for about 10 hours burn-in.
> However, Willy told PK32 that the burn-in time was at least 100 hours, and in fact the trend of sound changed many times during that time. You can enjoy it.



Now I really can't wait to get my hands on them again...


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> Now I really can't wait to get my hands on them again...



Waiting is difficult sometimes.  My wait for the Black Panther has begun.  I have a tracking number but the system has not yet recognized it.  We DO have other things to use in the meantime...


----------



## DAndrew

snip3r77 said:


> Just wondering how much does Blur stuff costs? Is it better than Willsound?



You can ask Wong directly on fb for pricing ( lots of models ). Between the two it really depends on what sound signature you prefer , the Blurs are really very neutral and to the mid centric side and they cant be outmatched for vocals imo. Cant say about the WillSound since I dont own one but from what everyone says, they are more V shaped. If you like something neutral that truly shines with vocals Blur is the way to go, the sound signature is really unique.


----------



## mbwilson111

DAndrew said:


> You can ask Wong directly on fb for pricing ( lots of models ). Between the two it really depends on what sound signature you prefer , the Blurs are really very neutral and to the mid centric side and they cant be outmatched for vocals imo. Cant say about the WillSound since I dont own one but from what everyone says, they are more V shaped. If you like something neutral that truly shines with vocals Blur is the way to go, the sound signature is really unique.



I love my Willsound MK1 rev2 (red) for vocals...and everything.  I have the Blur Black Panther coming because it has a cool smaller shell and I am curious... and @capnjack would not sell me his  ....and...they are BLACK PANTHERS!


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> Waiting is difficult sometimes.  My wait for the Black Panther has begun.  I have a tracking number but the system has not yet recognized it.  We DO have other things to use in the meantime...



The wait is the hardest but also most satisfying... 

That's if I don't miss the delivery...


----------



## DAndrew

mbwilson111 said:


> I love my Willsound MK1 rev2 (red) for vocals...and everything.  I have the Blur Black Panther coming because it has a cool smaller shell and I am curious... and @capnjack would not sell me his  ....and...they are BLACK PANTHERS!



The more I read about the WillSound earbuds the more I want one haha

But honestly I dont think it can match the Blurs. The Black Panther is a poor choice to get a taste of the Blur sound signature as they are merely modified Domoco eabuds ( recable and some tuning ) and dont have his usual drivers.


----------



## mbwilson111

DAndrew said:


> The more I read about the WillSound earbuds the more I want one haha
> 
> But honestly I dont think it can match the Blurs. The Black Panther is a poor choice to get a taste of the Blur sound signature as they are merely modified Domoco eabuds ( recable and some tuning ) and dont have his usual drivers.



I am not worried.  I don't think I made a poor choice.


----------



## 40760

DAndrew said:


> The more I read about the WillSound earbuds the more I want one haha
> 
> But honestly I dont think it can match the Blurs. The Black Panther is a poor choice to get a taste of the Blur sound signature as they are merely modified Domoco eabuds ( recable and some tuning ) and dont have his usual drivers.



It's as good as me saying "I think they can". But like you, I haven't heard the other...


----------



## capnjack

Guys, I was talking to Wong about his line-up and he recommended trying the BP for the ‘Blur sound’
He could’ve recommended others and I would’ve been non the wiser. I tried it and it’s a regular in my bag for a 3.5se bud! I now have the White Chocolate  in 2.5trrs as my go to, and yes it’s a better bud, but at about twice the price point. I’m sure you guys will love the BP it is a really great sounding bud imho.


----------



## DAndrew

palestofwhite said:


> It's as good as me saying "I think they can". But like you, I haven't heard the other...



I based my opinion on the fact that they are recabled Docomos, they may be tuned great and may sound as good as his other Blurs but I just doubt it


----------



## DAndrew

mbwilson111 said:


> I am not worried.  I don't think I made a poor choice.



I disnt say you had to worry, just gave some details on them is all


----------



## DAndrew

capnjack said:


> Guys, I was talking to Wong about his line-up and he recommended trying the BP for the ‘Blur sound’
> He could’ve recommended others and I would’ve been non the wiser. I tried it and it’s a regular in my bag for a 3.5se bud! I now have the White Chocolate  in 2.5trrs as my go to, and yes it’s a better bud, but at about twice the price point. I’m sure you guys will love the BP it is a really great sounding bud imho.



If you ask anyone to recommend something to check the sound signature of the VE buds i dont think anyone will recommend the 150$ Zen but the way cheaper Monk+ ( or Monk Lite ) so I think its fairly normal for him to recommend his entry level priced earbuds.

Dont get me wrong, everyone said good things about the BP, just that its a modded Docomo, akin to the Vido and Yincrow x6.


----------



## capnjack

DAndrew said:


> If you ask anyone to recommend something to check the sound signature of the VE buds i dont think anyone will recommend the 150$ Zen but the way cheaper Monk+ ( or Monk Lite ) so I think its fairly normal for him to recommend his entry level priced earbuds.
> 
> Dont get me wrong, everyone said good things about the BP, just that its a modded Docomo, akin to the Vido and Yincrow x6.


I have all 3 of those buds, but as good as the vido and x6 are, they're not a patch on the BP imho. Wong could have pointed me to any of his buds, but after we chatted about what sort of sound I was looking for we decided they would be best for my tastes.


----------



## jogawag

DAndrew said:


> If you ask anyone to recommend something to check the sound signature of the VE buds i dont think anyone will recommend the 150$ Zen but the way cheaper Monk+ ( or Monk Lite ) so I think its fairly normal for him to recommend his entry level priced earbuds.
> 
> Dont get me wrong, everyone said good things about the BP, just that its a modded Docomo, akin to the Vido and Yincrow x6.


You say "Docomo and Vido and Yincrow x6 are similar".
I had all "original" three of them. (Since Yincrow x6 overlaps with Vido, I returned it.)
So, I can not think that you have Docomo.
Vido and Yincrow x6 is Earbuds just for Bass-Head , but I know that Docomo has sound quality comparable to Shozy Cygnus.
But if mod is destroying Docomo, the story is different ...


----------



## DAndrew

capnjack said:


> I have all 3 of those buds, but as good as the vido and x6 are, they're not a patch on the BP imho. Wong could have pointed me to any of his buds, but after we chatted about what sort of sound I was looking for we decided they would be best for my tastes.



I was never trying to say that the vido or x6 can come close to the BP, i was pointing them as an example since the x6 is using vido drivers. I didnt question the quality of the buds...i am just saying what they are, modded Docomos, not that theres anything bad with them.


----------



## DAndrew

jogawag said:


> You say "Docomo and Vido and Yincrow x6 are similar".
> I had all "original" three of them. (Since Yincrow x6 overlaps with Vido, I returned it.)
> So, I can not think that you have Docomo.
> Vido and Yincrow x6 is Earbuds just for Bass-Head , but I know that Docomo has sound quality comparable to Shozy Cygnus.
> But if mod is destroying Docomo, the story is different ...



Read my post again, maybe my english is bad and I cant express myself clear enough, they are similar in that the x6 uses vido drivers and the BP is basically a modded Docomo. Not that those 3 are similar.


----------



## jogawag

DAndrew said:


> Read my post again, maybe my english is bad and I cant express myself clear enough, they are similar in that the x6 uses vido drivers and the BP is basically a modded Docomo. Not that those 3 are similar.


OK, I understood.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

capnjack said:


> ...Wong could have pointed me to any of his buds, but after we chatted about what sort of sound I was looking for we decided they would be best for my tastes.


Same for me.  After thoroughly discussing my listening preference, volume, and music genre, Wong thoughtfully recommended his *Blur 美魔女 "Beautiful Witch" 300Ω*.


----------



## HungryPanda

@DAndrew I have read your posts and words like "akin" say they are practically the same when that is not true


----------



## capnjack

DAndrew said:


> I was never trying to say that the vido or x6 can come close to the BP, i was pointing them as an example since the x6 is using vido drivers. I didnt question the quality of the buds...i am just saying what they are, modded Docomos, not that theres anything bad with them.


No, I agree with you that the BP is a modded Docomo and I personally prefer it to the other 2. 
However if you talk to Wong he will tell you that he is all about the sound quality as will tune his buds to your preferred sound or recommend the best one to your taste. I have recabled my own vidos and the sound does improve over the stock cable, but still it’s not as good. Again though, we all have different taste and hear things differently and this is just my opinion.


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm just about to recable my vidos, mire power to us


----------



## capnjack

HungryPanda said:


> I'm just about to recable my vidos, mire power to us


SPC cable would be my recommendation, maybe even 2.5 balanced too depending on your choice of dap.


----------



## DAndrew

HungryPanda said:


> @DAndrew I have read your posts and words like "akin" say they are practically the same when that is not true



What I meant with that was that the situation is the same, the x6 uses vido drivers and the BP uses docomo drivers. English is not my first language and I may not express myself correctly, sorry about that


----------



## DAndrew

capnjack said:


> No, I agree with you that the BP is a modded Docomo and I personally prefer it to the other 2.
> However if you talk to Wong he will tell you that he is all about the sound quality as will tune his buds to your preferred sound or recommend the best one to your taste. I have recabled my own vidos and the sound does improve over the stock cable, but still it’s not as good. Again though, we all have different taste and hear things differently and this is just my opinion.



Yeah he is really a great seller and I love the Blur 300. After a CAX earbud his brass Blur is my next purchase


----------



## HungryPanda

To be honest I do not have a Docomo, have no idea what they sound like and now I bow out gracefully. I just hate disinformation and the other stuff. Rock on


----------



## capnjack

DAndrew said:


> Yeah he is really a great seller and I love the Blur 300. After a CAX earbud his brass Blur is my next purchase


That’ll be a costly earbud!   Worth it though I suspect!


----------



## gazzington

I love blur earbuds. I have a 4.4 chocolate blurs, 32ohm blurs and black Panthers. The black panther is a great introduction and opens up a lot after some burning in. I think I may get some white chocolate in the future


----------



## DAndrew

capnjack said:


> That’ll be a costly earbud!   Worth it though I suspect!



Yes , costly investments and I have no idea how much it will improve compared to the Blur 300 , like its so good already

But first I am dying to get a CAX earbud everyone who has them say they are fantastic


----------



## HungryPanda

@DAndrew what is your limit?


----------



## seanc6441

Lionheart24 said:


> Hey guys, any recommendations for earbuds that are analog sounding with clear and transparent mids and sweet treble? Budget can go up to $100 and I will pair it with the Hiby R3, so 2.5 balanced buds are definitely welcome.


If Willsound PK32 can ordered with a balanced cable (think it can) that might be a good one to consider. Sweet treble and analog mids, clear and detailed. Can’t comment on the bass until I get my second pair but many others enjoyed it!


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 30, 2018)

Anyone else here own the K's Black Ling? (I know ClieOS does but that's to be expected haha)

I feel like I'm isolated on an island of audio goodness and with no one to compare my opinion of this earbud with ) After EQ + foam mods it's my favourite earbud hands down. I know it's expensive so itwon't be as common but I was hoping someone else had it to compare to their other TOTL's.

I ran into a weird situation with the mids being way off the mark tonally out of the box, dunno if i had dodgy tuning or it's just the K's house sound but I needed to apply drastic EQ'ing to the mids to get it sounding natural (with my MK2 and Mojito as a reference).






You can probably see in that picture how specific an area I had to EQ down, other than that it's got an amazingl balanced signature with modded AE thin foams. So someone has gotta buy one so we can form an appreciation group for this earbud 

@ClieOS we spoke awhile back about the issues I was hving with my Ling now completely fixed with the EQ above. Any chance you can run this quick test on youtube 

 

when you get a chance and let me know if the tone peaks majorly from 1khz to 2khz? That's the area that was extremely peaked on my ling. Thanks.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jul 1, 2018)

DAndrew said:


> I disnt say you had to worry, just gave some details on them is all



I had just shared that I was excited to have the Black Panther on the way and you basically said I had made a poor choice in selecting them.  You have not even heard them.  I know I will like them.  You have  not heard a Willsound but you are certain that Blurs are better.  Whether or not they are is not the point.  You would have to hear them first before making that judgement.  "Better" is very subjective anyway.  People have different preferences, different music , different ears. 

Anyway, why not just enjoy it all?  Does it always have to be a competition?  Personally, I enjoy and adapt to various sound signatures.


----------



## RobinFood

seanc6441 said:


> Anyone else here own the K's Black Ling? (I know ClieOS does but that's to be expected haha)
> 
> I feel like I'm isolated on an island of audio goodness and with no one to compare my opinion of this earbud with ) After EQ + foam mods it's my favourite earbud hands down. I know it's expensive so itwon't be as common but I was hoping someone else had it to compare to their other TOTL's.
> 
> ...




Huh, tested the signal frequency of the MK2 compared to my ER4XRs, below 40Hz they don't have much. I know it's not fair, price and tech being completely different, but the ER4XRs sound like an airplane going off or an earthquake, while the MK2s just rumble a little. After 40Hz though, the bass is similar.
Now I can't take the ER4s out anymore...I wonder if I will ever find an earbud that sounds this good :S


----------



## mbwilson111

RobinFood said:


> Now I can't take the ER4s out anymore...I wonder if I will ever find an earbud that sounds this good :S



Can you get a backup pair or is it too old?


----------



## RobinFood

mbwilson111 said:


> Can you get a backup pair or is it too old?



I meant to say, "now that I have put the ER4(XR)s in my ears, I can't take them out to listen to the MK2s anymore. I wish I could find an earbud that pleases me in sound signature and quality as much as these IEMs do."


----------



## mbwilson111

RobinFood said:


> I meant to say, "now that I have put the ER4(XR)s in my ears, I can't take them out to listen to the MK2s anymore. I wish I could find an earbud that pleases me in sound signature and quality as much as these IEMs do."




Lol...I thought you meant you had to protect and preserve them because they were so awesome. I find it is best to not compare buds with iems.  I just appreciate each for what it is.


----------



## RobinFood

mbwilson111 said:


> Lol...I thought you meant you had to protect and preserve them because they were so awesome. I find it is best to not compare buds with iems.  I just appreciate each for what it is.



I know, I just couldn't help it. Still chasing for the one!


----------



## jogawag (Jun 30, 2018)

RobinFood said:


> I know, I just couldn't help it. Still chasing for the one!


For you who is such a Sub-Bass-Head, I strongly recommend Vido or Shozy Cygnus as buds.


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> Huh, tested the signal frequency of the MK2 compared to my ER4XRs, below 40Hz they don't have much. I know it's not fair, price and tech being completely different, but the ER4XRs sound like an airplane going off or an earthquake, while the MK2s just rumble a little. After 40Hz though, the bass is similar.
> Now I can't take the ER4s out anymore...I wonder if I will ever find an earbud that sounds this good :S



my MK2 rev1 have bigger bass than the ER4XR in term of volume. in terms of lower extension, usually iems would go deeper than their earbuds brothers because of the deeper insertion and better isolation, but i feel the MK2 have enough rumble to vibrate the ears. granted, yes, the rev 2 does have lesser bass than the rev1. if the ER4XR sounds like earthquake  you should try the TFZ or other dynamic driver iems 

Other head Shaker earbuds that i have would be the vido, Svara-L, blox B200, and puresound ps100-500 with a good amp


----------



## RobinFood

jogawag said:


> For you who is such a Sub-Bass-Head, I strongly recommend Vido or Shozy Cygnus as buds.



I have the Yincrow X6. I heard they are a rebrand of the Vido. Is that true?


chinmie said:


> my MK2 rev1 have bigger bass than the ER4XR in term of volume. in terms of lower extension, usually iems would go deeper than their earbuds brothers because of the deeper insertion and better isolation, but i feel the MK2 have enough rumble to vibrate the ears. granted, yes, the rev 2 does have lesser bass than the rev1. if the ER4XR sounds like earthquake  you should try the TFZ or other dynamic driver iems
> 
> Other head Shaker earbuds that i have would be the vido, Svara-L, blox B200, and puresound ps100-500 with a good amp



I think the MK2 has bigger mid-bass overall...but from 20-40hz the ER4XR with the beige foams destroys everything else I have in terms of volume and power!


----------



## jogawag

RobinFood said:


> I have the Yincrow X6. I heard they are a rebrand of the Vido. Is that true?


I do not know about the rebrand, but Vido and Yincrow X6 sound almost the same.


----------



## RobinFood (Jun 30, 2018)

jogawag said:


> I do not know about the rebrand, but Vido and Yincrow X6 sound almost the same.



In that case, the MK2 has it beat in the 20 - 60HZ range going off on that signal frequency video.

Edit: Also, the frequency chart of the ER4XR kind of looks like the one for the ER4SR...

https://www.etymotic.com/downloads/dl/file/id/700/product/359/er4sr_er4xr_data_sheet.pdf


----------



## Lionheart24

seanc6441 said:


> If Willsound PK32 can ordered with a balanced cable (think it can) that might be a good one to consider. Sweet treble and analog mids, clear and detailed. Can’t comment on the bass until I get my second pair but many others enjoyed it!



Yup, I've been looking at the PK32. But from the impressions here they have a slight midbass bump and I have limited tolerance to midbass - actually bass in general.

A friend recommended the V Masters but I kinda feel like people have very mixed impressions on them.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 30, 2018)

RobinFood said:


> In that case, the MK2 has it beat in the 20 - 60HZ range going off on that signal frequency video.
> 
> Edit: Also, the frequency chart of the ER4XR kind of looks like the one for the ER4SR...
> 
> https://www.etymotic.com/downloads/dl/file/id/700/product/359/er4sr_er4xr_data_sheet.pdf


I have not said anything about MK2.
And, the frequency chart changes somewhat depending on measurement conditions, does not it?


----------



## RobinFood (Jun 30, 2018)

jogawag said:


> I have not said anything about MK2.
> And, the frequency chart changes somewhat depending on measurement conditions, does not it?



No, you didn't talk about the MK2.
I did though, I was comparing the ER4XRs to the MK2, saying they had less sub-bass, and then you recommended the Vido or Cygnus instead for more sub-bass...

For the frequency chart, I'm sorry, I don't know much other than the basics, it just seemed so different than the one that came with the ER4XRs.


----------



## 40760 (Jun 30, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I had just shared that I was excited to have the Black Panther on the way and you basically said I had made a poor choice in selecting them.  You have not even heard them.  I know I will like them.  You have  not heard a Willsound but you are certain that Blurs are better.  Whether or not they are is not the point.  You would have to hear them first before making that judgement.  "Better" is very subjective anyway.  People have different preferences, different music , different ears.
> 
> Anyway, why not just enjoy it all?  Doe it always have to be a competition?  Personally, I enjoy and adapt to various sound signatures.



I think he failed to realise that it's got nothing to do with English not being his first language (he types just fine).

Instead it seems like he base sound quality on pricing, and makes sweeping remarks without much thought or personal experience.

Not that we have anything against him, but how he expresses himself will rub people the wrong way. And no, I don't think we're over sensitive in any way...


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> @ClieOS we spoke awhile back about the issues I was hving with my Ling now completely fixed with the EQ above. Any chance you can run this quick test on youtube
> 
> 
> 
> when you get a chance and let me know if the tone peaks majorly from 1khz to 2khz? That's the area that was extremely peaked on my ling. Thanks.




I have two Black Ling, the original version with gold/silver cable and a balanced version with pure silver cable. The original version doesn't have much spike over 1~2kHz area as trying to EQ it down a few dB will make it too over smooth for my taste. The balanced version on the other hand is slightly brighter over these area compared to the single-ended version, though nowhere near as bad that I think it will require an EQ fix. At most it is just a slightly brighter vocal.


----------



## menuki

Hello guys!

I'm completley new here, but I'd love to hear some reccoemdations for an Ear-Bud which is build solidly (maybe even out of metal), has a balanced signature and foremost, nice mids and no lack in bass.


----------



## capnjack

menuki said:


> Hello guys!
> 
> I'm completley new here, but I'd love to hear some reccoemdations for an Ear-Bud which is build solidly (maybe even out of metal), has a balanced signature and foremost, nice mids and no lack in bass.


Depending on your budget?  About €40 Willsound buds  maybe a good choice, if you want to spend quite a bit more you could contact Wong Quan Wae (blur) on Facebook (Earbuds Anonymous) talk to him about what you want or would like and he’ll let you know what he can hand build and tune for your taste. That’s my 2 cents worth, there are so many more options though and im sure others will chime in


----------



## menuki (Jul 1, 2018)

capnjack said:


> Depending on your budget?  About €40 Willsound buds  maybe a good choice, if you want to spend quite a bit more you could contact Wong Quan Wae (blur) on Facebook (Earbuds Anonymous) talk to him about what you want or would like and he’ll let you know what he can hand build and tune for your taste. That’s my 2 cents worth, there’s are so many more options though and im sure others will chime in



Oh god, that sounds very cool, ear-buds tuned to taste? Already a big surprise. Budget doesn't matter all that much, as long as it stays under 300€ I'm good haha. Thank you for the recommendations!

Further, I already liked the Monks, they made me realize that Ear Buds can have a really good sound, not even inferior to other headphones at all, but they are just too big for my lil Asian ears to fit, so bass suffers a ton.


----------



## capnjack

menuki said:


> Oh god, that sounds very cool, ear-buds tuned to taste? Already a big surprise. Budget doesn't matter all that much, as long as it stays under 300€ I'm good haha. Thank you for the recommendations!


I personally like the willsound mk.1rev.2  and bought a couple of Blur buds recently from Wong. The White Chocolate is a really good bud, I got mine in 2.5 balanced 150ohm, but easily driven by just a dap.


----------



## capnjack

menuki said:


> Oh god, that sounds very cool, ear-buds tuned to taste? Already a big surprise. Budget doesn't matter all that much, as long as it stays under 300€ I'm good haha. Thank you for the recommendations!
> 
> Further, I already liked the Monks, they made me realize that Ear Buds can have a really good sound, not even inferior to other headphones at all, but they are just too big for my lil Asian ears to fit, so bass suffers a ton.


You might want to look at the Monk lite, it has a smaller shell than Monk plus. Or maybe try the pk shelled buds or Wong’s Blur Black Panther (got a pair of these) all have smaller shell/housings


----------



## menuki (Jul 1, 2018)

capnjack said:


> You might want to look at the Monk lite, it has a smaller shell than Monk plus. Or maybe try the pk shelled buds or Wong’s Blur Black Panther (got a pair of these) all have smaller shell/housings



Gladly, I think I'll just order the Monk Lite first. But, 40ohms or 120ohms in this case? Does more ohm mean "better"? What are the advantages in an Ear-Bud when you have higher resistance? Also, I suppose 120ohms can still be driven by a phone, or does one require a more powerful amp?

Thank you! 

EDIT:
Oh my globs:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...ae20-4c1f-82e4-ee7cdf629800&priceBeautifyAB=0

Graphene drivers AND replaceable cables. I'd just order them instantly but am worried they might be as big as the normal Monks.


----------



## kurtextrem

seanc6441 said:


> I feel like I'm isolated on an island of audio goodness and with no one to compare my opinion of this earbud with ) After EQ + foam mods it's my favourite earbud hands down. I know it's expensive so itwon't be as common but I was hoping someone else had it to compare to their other TOTL's.


Please don't make me buy it before the huge sale in November (or so), please please please lol


----------



## WoodyLuvr

menuki said:


> Gladly, I think I'll just order the Monk Lite first. But, 40ohms or 120ohms in this case? Does more ohm mean "better"? What are the advantages in an Ear-Bud when you have higher resistance? Also, I suppose 120ohms can still be driven by a phone, or does one require a more powerful amp?
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> ...


Regarding the ToneKings you ordered:
400Ω @ 112 dB SPL/mW (116 dB SPL/V) Power Requirements:
*0.5 Vrms   1.25 mA   0.63 mW  *for a loudness of 110 dB SPL


----------



## noknok23

menuki said:


> Oh god, that sounds very cool, ear-buds tuned to taste? Already a big surprise. Budget doesn't matter all that much, as long as it stays under 300€ I'm good haha. Thank you for the recommendations!
> 
> Further, I already liked the Monks, they made me realize that Ear Buds can have a really good sound, not even inferior to other headphones at all, but they are just too big for my lil Asian ears to fit, so bass suffers a ton.


If you really can't stand the fit of the monk+, just know that MK2 and blur use the same shell (mx500)
Maybe try the he150, the build is super strong and it's made of metal. Sound is balanced. Fit is excellent as well.
Others earphones I could think of with metal shell and decent bass is Nicehck EBX, K's black ling.
But I haven't heard myself (look up the search thread, there is plenty of great feedback) feel free to ask about fit if you're not sure. It can be tricky with some models.
You may also like yuin shell earphones if your ears are small.
Simphonio or shozy use them and they have good bass and mids I think.

Btw, did you tried donut foam on the monk+? This helps greatly for both fit and bass.


----------



## noknok23 (Jul 1, 2018)

https://penonaudio.com/sunrise-as-charm-3-sr80.html
Simphonio as-charm 3 sr80
Love the look of these!! Anyone heard them? They seems to be different than the original 10yr old model but I'm not sure. Maybe they are new old stock as well.

Edit: it's this one: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/review-the-charming-sunrise-charm-3-sr80.642007/


----------



## menuki (Jul 1, 2018)

noknok23 said:


> If you really can't stand the fit of the monk+, just know that MK2 and blur use the same shell (mx500)
> Maybe try the he150, the build is super strong and it's made of metal. Sound is balanced. Fit is excellent as well.
> Others earphones I could think of with metal shell and decent bass is Nicehck EBX, K's black ling.
> But I haven't heard myself (look up the search thread, there is plenty of great feedback) feel free to ask about fit if you're not sure. It can be tricky with some models.
> ...



Thanks for the recommendations! There seem to a TON of really great EarBuds out there. 

Right now I've tried the Monk+ with the Red foam again, and I gotta say, they sit very loosely in my ear, but I can even shake my head and they don't fall out easily, right now they quite some bass. Wow. I think the reason why I forgot about them more or less is the fact that when you push them closer into your ears, they just sound better, thus I might have to look for some EarBuds which are indeed a bit smaller maybe. But is that maybe generally a normal behaviour? It feels a bit like not getting a perfect seal with In-Ears.


----------



## noknok23

menuki said:


> Thanks for the recommendations! There seem to a TON of really great EarBuds out there.
> 
> Right now I've tried the Monk+ with the Red foam again, and I gotta say, they sit very loosely in my ear, but I can even shake my head and they don't fall out easily, right now they quite some bass. Wow. I think the reason why I forgot about them more or less is the fact that when you push them closer into your ears, they just sound better, thus I might have to look for some EarBuds which are indeed a bit smaller maybe. But is that maybe generally a normal behaviour? It feels a bit like not getting a perfect seal with In-Ears.


For me, the way you describe it is fine. There is a feeling of discomfort at first but eventually you'll get use to this "loose" floating fit typical of earbuds that is very different of iem.


----------



## menuki

noknok23 said:


> For me, the way you describe it is fine. There is a feeling of discomfort at first but eventually you'll get use to this "loose" floating fit typical of earbuds that is very different of iem.



Okay, thanks for clarifying! I suppose I'll wait for my 24BAs In-Ear flagship to arrive and then I'll have a closer look at all the EarBuds available. 

Right now it feels just a "bit" overwhelming, so many crazy cool options, especially EarBuds with up to 14mm Graphene drivers just sound amazing. (Well, I don't know how they sound yet though *badumts*)


----------



## seanc6441

RobinFood said:


> No, you didn't talk about the MK2.
> I did though, I was comparing the ER4XRs to the MK2, saying they had less sub-bass, and then you recommended the Vido or Cygnus instead for more sub-bass...
> 
> For the frequency chart, I'm sorry, I don't know much other than the basics, it just seemed so different than the one that came with the ER4XRs.


Cygnus for sub bass? Something isn’t adding up with those measurements or my cygnus was a defect because it has much less sub bass than my mk2.

My top 3 earbuds ranked by sub ass extension and quantity Ling>MK2>Mojito


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> I have two Black Ling, the original version with gold/silver cable and a balanced version with pure silver cable. The original version doesn't have much spike over 1~2kHz area as trying to EQ it down a few dB will make it too over smooth for my taste. The balanced version on the other hand is slightly brighter over these area compared to the single-ended version, though nowhere near as bad that I think it will require an EQ fix. At most it is just a slightly brighter vocal.


Interesting thanks, my unit has what can only be described as a major peak at around 1350-1450hz. Which is practically death to vocal timbre judging off any other buds I’ve looked at. 1-2khz needs to be smooth changes without massive peaks or dips it seems.

Nonetheless I managed to fix it tomy liking and I agree if you make too wide an EQ everything became way too dull/smooth.I had to rework the EQ numerous times to trim it down to exactly the right frequency to just kill the spike.

From 3khz onwards the signature is just ideal though IMO. Perfect balance of smooth but slightly bright lean.


----------



## seanc6441

kurtextrem said:


> Please don't make me buy it before the huge sale in November (or so), please please please lol


I waited for the sale, you can too .

Hope you have some thin monk/ali foams because these things are bass monsters with regular full foams and no back vent so you need to use the thin foam to ‘open’ the sound up if you want.


----------



## seanc6441

menuki said:


> Hello guys!
> 
> I'm completley new here, but I'd love to hear some reccoemdations for an Ear-Bud which is build solidly (maybe even out of metal), has a balanced signature and foremost, nice mids and no lack in bass.


I suggest one of the willsound line first, then if you really are impressed with earbuds and you want a metal build you can look at some TOTL buds like Ling, Liebesleid, Cypherus Zoomfred etc etc. if you’re willing to spend on premium earbuds.

Test the Willsounds (MK1/MK2) first, great balance with solid bass and absolutely amazing value for money pricing.


----------



## DAndrew

HungryPanda said:


> @DAndrew what is your limit?



Money wise? I guess 1000$ is the limit for an earbud ( saving up for them , dont have that kind of money yet ) if they are what I truly like. Of course I would prefer to get the best bang for my buck but if it cant be helped I am willing to splurge on my endgame


----------



## DAndrew

RobinFood said:


> I have the Yincrow X6. I heard they are a rebrand of the Vido. Is that true?
> 
> 
> I think the MK2 has bigger mid-bass overall...but from 20-40hz the ER4XR with the beige foams destroys everything else I have in terms of volume and power!



The X6 is basically identical just a different color shell and better cable than the vido. Someone did a teardown of it and everything is the same inside. Plus they basically sound the same.


----------



## HungryPanda

NiceHCK EBX or Svara L are metal and easier to drive than the Toneking


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

Where is the best place for a Canadian to order some Willsounds?  

Also, having tried a few different buds now - Monk +, Monk Lite 40ohm, and **** PT15 I find myself still liking the Monk + the best.  The lites I found to have an unpleasant bump around 2-2.5 khz that created some harshness.  The PT15 are nice and sound quite good...much more open and spacious than the Monks but a little light in the lower mids - sadly one of the buds has a loose connection that cuts out if I move around at all.  Not sure if I can be bothered doing anything about it as it took about 6 weeks or more for them to arrive in the first place.  But the good old Monk + has a tonal character that I just enjoy.  They sound good with pretty much everything...sort of an all-rounder and cheap enough to not really worry about them much.

So...can anyone recommend for me a bud that has that Monk + sound with slightly more bass and slightly more treble extension and just a titch more spaciousness?  Would maybe the Yincrow X6 or the Pandas be there?


----------



## seanc6441

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> Where is the best place for a Canadian to order some Willsounds?
> 
> Also, having tried a few different buds now - Monk +, Monk Lite 40ohm, and **** PT15 I find myself still liking the Monk + the best.  The lites I found to have an unpleasant bump around 2-2.5 khz that created some harshness.  The PT15 are nice and sound quite good...much more open and spacious than the Monks but a little light in the lower mids - sadly one of the buds has a loose connection that cuts out if I move around at all.  Not sure if I can be bothered doing anything about it as it took about 6 weeks or more for them to arrive in the first place.  But the good old Monk + has a tonal character that I just enjoy.  They sound good with pretty much everything...sort of an all-rounder and cheap enough to not really worry about them much.
> 
> So...can anyone recommend for me a bud that has that Monk + sound with slightly more bass and slightly more treble extension and just a titch more spaciousness?  Would maybe the Yincrow X6 or the Pandas be there?


Dunno your budget but the Shozy BK has that dark leaning but neutralish signature, similar to the monk plus but with way more clarity and better bass. Thick, lush low mids too.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

seanc6441 said:


> Dunno your budget but the Shozy BK has that dark leaning but neutralish signature, similar to the monk plus but with way more clarity and better bass. Thick, lush low mids too.



Oh yeah I should have noted - I'm not looking to go much above $20, lol...


----------



## noknok23

noknok23 said:


> https://penonaudio.com/sunrise-as-charm-3-sr80.html
> Simphonio as-charm 3 sr80
> Love the look of these!! Anyone heard them? They seems to be different than the original 10yr old model but I'm not sure. Maybe they are new old stock as well.
> 
> Edit: it's this one: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/review-the-charming-sunrise-charm-3-sr80.642007/


Anyone own the charm 3 are they still competitive with the current offering for 45usd?


----------



## knudsen

RobinFood said:


> Huh, tested the signal frequency of the MK2 compared to my ER4XRs, below 40Hz they don't have much. I know it's not fair, price and tech being completely different, but the ER4XRs sound like an airplane going off or an earthquake, while the MK2s just rumble a little. After 40Hz though, the bass is similar.
> Now I can't take the ER4s out anymore...I wonder if I will ever find an earbud that sounds this good :S


EMX500s has more subbass than mk2. Mk2 has more "normal" bass (some may feel too much.... I know because I do, with certain pairing). The bass of EMX500s is more impressive IMO, and outputs to around 26-27Hz with quite good level if I remember correctly, and audible to 20


----------



## seanc6441

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> Oh yeah I should have noted - I'm not looking to go much above $20, lol...


Hmm a tough ask to find a BK for that price then 

Pk2 panda is an upgrade on monk plus, it's got good detail and a warm smooth sound.


----------



## seanc6441

knudsen said:


> EMX500s has more subbass than mk2. Mk2 has more "normal" bass (some may feel too much.... I know because I do, with certain pairing). The bass of EMX500s is more impressive IMO, and outputs to around 26-27Hz with quite good level if I remember correctly, and audible to 20


Are we comparing mk2 and emx500 with the same foams attached? Just making sure as the stock foams don't show mk2 sub bass quality. In my mk2 sub bass is there, once you EQ down mid bass. Maybe the 500 is just more though.


----------



## RobinFood

seanc6441 said:


> Cygnus for sub bass? Something isn’t adding up with those measurements or my cygnus was a defect because it has much less sub bass than my mk2.
> 
> My top 3 earbuds ranked by sub ass extension and quantity Ling>MK2>Mojito



Thanks, that is actually really helpful. 
I'm not sure how much burn-in the MK2s have gotten, but I have been listening to them a lot for the last 2 and a half days, probably upwards 12 hours a day (weekend + kids and wife were at in-laws).
I feel like they are still opening up and changing, even now after around 30 hours use!
It keeps me switching from all the foams I have.
I am now using some black clothe foams, and they are really doing well down low.
I feel like the pianos and violins opened up and finally got the right texture too.
I can't wait to see how they change. 
They still don't sound 100% "natural", you can tell you are listening to a speaker and not that the band is there in front of you, but the amount of details they put out is a welcome change from the budget buds I had!
I really like them so far!


----------



## jogawag (Jul 1, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Cygnus for sub bass? Something isn’t adding up with those measurements or my cygnus was a defect because it has much less sub bass than my mk2.
> 
> My top 3 earbuds ranked by sub ass extension and quantity Ling>MK2>Mojito


Sub-Bass Earbuds of three you mentioned (Ling> MK2> Mojito) looks just only like your favorite Earbuds you recently purchased, does not it?
I have Earbuds other than Ling in three, but I feel that EMX500 and Vido have more Sub-Bass than MK2, Cygnus and Mojito feel the same degree.

That is, the order of Sub-Bass I feel is (EMX500> Vido> MK2> Cygnus, Mojito).

I do not feel like discussing this anymore, so you may do what you want to argue, but I do not feel like reacting to it.




*Rose Mojito


----------



## redkingjoe

seanc6441 said:


> Dunno your budget but the Shozy BK has that dark leaning but neutralish signature, similar to the monk plus but with way more clarity and better bass. Thick, lush low mids too.



Holly cow Shozy Bk price in eBay suddenly increased a hell lot!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

jogawag said:


> Sub-Bass Earbuds of three you mentioned (Ling> MK2> Mojito) looks just only like your favorite Earbuds you recently purchased, does not it?
> I have Earbuds other than Ling in three, but I feel that EMX500 and Vido have more Sub-Bass than MK2, Cygnus and Mojito feel the same degree.


Do you happen to own any Blurs?  I would be interested in seeing their frequency response especially a 300Ω model.


----------



## chinmie

jogawag said:


> That is, the order of Sub-Bass I feel is (EMX500> Vido> MK2> Cygnus, Mojito).



that's about right


----------



## crabdog

I've really enjoyed my time with the Dragon 2+ but not sure how many will be willing to spend that much!
https://primeaudio.org/simphonio-dragon-2/


----------



## menuki

crabdog said:


> I've really enjoyed my time with the Dragon 2+ but not sure how many will be willing to spend that much!
> https://primeaudio.org/simphonio-dragon-2/



This makes me wonder though, they are not made out of metal nor do they have a replaceable cable, so I suppose some special material is used for the driver? Do you know why it has the price tag it has, besides sounding good?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 1, 2018)

jogawag said:


> Sub-Bass Earbuds of three you mentioned (Ling> MK2> Mojito) looks just only like your favorite Earbuds you recently purchased, does not it?
> I have Earbuds other than Ling in three, but I feel that EMX500 and Vido have more Sub-Bass than MK2, Cygnus and Mojito feel the same degree.
> 
> That is, the order of Sub-Bass I feel is (EMX500> Vido> MK2> Cygnus, Mojito).
> ...


What there's nothing to argue about man it was just my opinion not measured stats, I picked those three because I don't have vido or emx500 any more and those three beat my other regular buds (masya,bs1,to400s).

Maybe mojito has less than Cygnus but the shell seals in my ear better it's possible that can be a reason.

Not trying to argue mate just a quick comment I made without over thinking it 

EMX500 did have good sub bass it's just been awhile size I used it. My mk2 has nice sub bass too though, I'd love to get some Willsound measurements!


----------



## Guggga

If you guys are looking for some serious bass, my candidate would be the mk1 rev 1. They sound beefier than any other earbud, including the vido and Emx500. 

The best thing about them though is the fantastic imaging and instrument  seperation like thr other willsounds. The Soundstage is enveloping and they sound like headphones. No wonder Bisoy (a member on the EA fb page) has three iterations of them with the Vjc and litz cables.

Not sure if Willy is making the older versions now though.


----------



## jogawag

WoodyLuvr said:


> Do you happen to own any Blurs?  I would be interested in seeing their frequency response especially a 300Ω model.


Sorry, I don't own any Blurs.


----------



## crabdog

menuki said:


> This makes me wonder though, they are not made out of metal nor do they have a replaceable cable, so I suppose some special material is used for the driver? Do you know why it has the price tag it has, besides sounding good?


There is no information about the driver material so not sure about that. I think the shells are really nice but nothing out of the ordinary. The cable is excellent though and the included adapter sells separately for $32. I guess in this case you're mostly paying for the sound quality


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> I suggest one of the willsound line first, then if you really are impressed with earbuds and you want a metal build you can look at some TOTL buds like Ling, Liebesleid, Cypherus Zoomfred etc etc. if you’re willing to spend on premium earbuds.


None of the Cypherus buds have metal shells.

I know they are very polarizing (people here either love or hate them), but for a reasonably priced metal buds, I like the MusicMaker MrZ Tomahawk.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 1, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> None of the Cypherus buds have metal shells.
> 
> I know they are very polarizing (people here either love or hate them), but for a reasonably priced metal buds, I like the MusicMaker MrZ Tomahawk.


Yes true, they look well built though.

Mrz tomahawk is polarizing indeed. Maybe the Ting is a more conventional tuning.

I liked the Tomahawk on some sources, I think it's a bud that in combo with some EQ can perform very well.


----------



## Otto Motor

I have always been skeptical of premium earbuds and therefore no experience outside of the Sennheiser fare. My $10 Chinese buds are all not very good.

What is the "must have" if one only goes for only premium earbud?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Otto Motor said:


> I have always been skeptical of premium earbuds and therefore no experience outside of the Sennheiser fare. My $10 Chinese buds are all not very good.
> 
> What is the "must have" if one only goes for only premium earbud?


You might be very surprised by the strides and accomplishments made by earbuds over the last few years; I sure was!


----------



## DAndrew

Otto Motor said:


> I have always been skeptical of premium earbuds and therefore no experience outside of the Sennheiser fare. My $10 Chinese buds are all not very good.
> 
> What is the "must have" if one only goes for only premium earbud?



Really depends on your budget and sound signature preference. Want neutral mid centric, go for a Blur earbud, I personally have the Blur 300.

Want something darker and more V shaped, go with K's 300 Samsara; it has the best bass I have heard in an earbud until now.

Lately I have only listened to the Toneking TO400s, I find they have a slightly V shaped sound signature but overall its a great all rounder.


----------



## kurtextrem

doggiemom said:


> None of the Cypherus buds have metal shells.
> 
> I know they are very polarizing (people here either love or hate them), but for a reasonably priced metal buds, I like the MusicMaker MrZ Tomahawk.


The Tomahawk was the only earbud ever that really hurt my ears when listening to music. Something was too sharp in its sound sig. However, I absolutely love the TO400s, so it's not something about Musikmaker's sound style, but rather specifically the Tomahawk.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 1, 2018)

DAndrew said:


> Really depends on your budget and sound signature preference. Want neutral mid centric, go for a Blur earbud, I personally have the Blur 300.
> 
> Want something darker and more V shaped, go with K's 300 Samsara; it has the best bass I have heard in an earbud until now.
> 
> Lately I have only listened to the Toneking TO400s, I find they have a slightly V shaped sound signature but overall its a great all rounder.



How much darker would you say that the K's 300 Samsara is versus the *Blur 美魔女 "Beautiful Witch" 300Ω*?  Non-fatiguing wise would you say that the Blur is easier on the ears as it isn't a "V" signature?  Appreciate your thoughts and experiences on such.


----------



## DAndrew

WoodyLuvr said:


> How much darker would you say that the K's 300 Samsara is versus the *Blur 美魔女 "Beautiful Witch" 300Ω*?  Fatigue wise would you say that the Blur is easier on the ears as it isn't a "V" signature?  Appreciate your thoughts and experiences on such.



The Blur is way more easy on the ears and the sound just feels natural. Its a really amazing earbud and before getting the TO400s I was only listening to it.

Its hard to say how much darker the Samsara is. Its like saying how much blacker is black compared to white ( dumb comparison , I hope you can understand ).
The Blur was built to be neutral while the Samsara was built to be dark.

Hands down Samsara beats the Blur bass wise...but everything else the Blur does way better.


----------



## capnjack

WoodyLuvr said:


> Do you happen to own any Blurs?  I would be interested in seeing their frequency response especially a 300Ω model.


Message Wong he’ll have the information you want and I’m sure he will be able to let you know all about the whole range.


----------



## chinmie

Otto Motor said:


> I have always been skeptical of premium earbuds and therefore no experience outside of the Sennheiser fare. My $10 Chinese buds are all not very good.
> 
> What is the "must have" if one only goes for only premium earbud?



It depends on your sound preference and budget, as all premium earbuds is worthy as a "must have" .

If i may, what $10 earbuds that you already tried?


----------



## Otto Motor

chinmie said:


> It depends on your sound preference and budget, as all premium earbuds is worthy as a "must have" .
> 
> If i may, what $10 earbuds that you already tried?


My buds:
Joyroom JR-EL117 1200 mm Driver
JOYROOM JR-EL123
Langsdom F9
Headroom MS16
VE Monk Plus
FAAEL 32 ohm earbud

...and the winner is: Sennheiser MX-560


----------



## mbwilson111

Otto Motor said:


> Joyroom JR-EL117 1200 mm Driver



That's a mighty big driver for a little bud  I hope that is actually the length of the cable!


----------



## DAndrew

Otto Motor said:


> My buds:
> Joyroom JR-EL117 1200 mm Driver
> JOYROOM JR-EL123
> Langsdom F9
> ...



I may be wrong since I never heard of Joyroom as a brand but they seem like pretty cheap generic earbuds ( that also cost 3$ ) so those are not really representative of the quality of earbuds recommended here.


----------



## rkw (Jul 1, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> @DAndrew what is your limit?





DAndrew said:


> Money wise? I guess 1000$ is the limit for an earbud ( saving up for them , dont have that kind of money yet ) if they are what I truly like.


$1000 is basically unlimited budget for an earbud. There are only a handful of earbuds over $300 and I can't think of any as high as $1000.


----------



## seanc6441

rkw said:


> $1000 is basically unlimited budget for an earbud. There are only a handful of earbuds over $300 and I can't think of any as high as $1000.


He needs the K's Poseidon


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> He needs the K's Poseidon


 
Isn't that impossible to get?


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Isn't that impossible to get?


He needs to be in the sea god's good graces to acquire one


----------



## seanc6441

@jogawag Your fault!


----------



## chinmie

Otto Motor said:


> My buds:
> Joyroom JR-EL117 1200 mm Driver
> JOYROOM JR-EL123
> Langsdom F9
> ...



Aside from the monk plus, i haven't really heard the others on your list. The joyroom and the langsdom in particular are (as far as i know) never even mentioned here. The most popularly recommended $10 here would be the EMX500.

If I was to suggest to someone new to earbuds, i would say get the Willsound MK for $30. That would cover a really wide base. 

For TOTL, i would only give suggestions if i know for sure what kind of sound you really like, because at that level they are all great sounding, but if you only want to buy one, then it is a matter of personal taste. 

For example, the Simphonio Dragon 2 plus is worth their price tag. I was sceptic at first and personally won't take the risk buying them blindly at that price.. But i have auditioned it, and i would say it was priced right. But would i buy it? No, because i have other earbuds that suits me more


----------



## rkw

seanc6441 said:


> He needs the K's Poseidon


That's like a $1000 cable with free earbuds attached.


----------



## DAndrew

rkw said:


> $1000 is basically unlimited budget for an earbud. There are only a handful of earbuds over $300 and I can't think of any as high as $1000.



Well there is the Red Dragon but I am not sure I will like the CAX house sound. Will probably sell some of my buds and get a CAX ZoomFred


----------



## Otto Motor

DAndrew said:


> I may be wrong since I never heard of Joyroom as a brand but they seem like pretty cheap generic earbuds ( that also cost 3$ ) so those are not really representative of the quality of earbuds recommended here.


That may as well be right...and I don't claim they are quality, but somebody asked me which earbuds I own.


----------



## HungryPanda

@Otto Motor Perhaps you would like the OurArt Ti7 as I believe you like a more neutral sound


----------



## jogawag

seanc6441 said:


> @jogawag Your fault!


What happened to your Shozy Cygnus? !


----------



## Zerohour88

kurtextrem said:


> The Tomahawk was the only earbud ever that really hurt my ears when listening to music. Something was too sharp in its sound sig. However, I absolutely love the TO400s, so it's not something about Musikmaker's sound style, but rather specifically the Tomahawk.



I rarely see people go for the TO200 but all the way to TO400 instead. I got the TO180 specifically because I was worried I didn't have enough power to run the higher impedance buds (which is unfounded for the TO180 since its quite easy to drive). I assume you've used the TO400 for gaming too?

also, asked around on the earbud FB group, and from what I gather, hierarchy for the toneking stuff was TO200<TO400<TY2 Pro (mmcx version)<Masya (asked because its about the same price range). Does that sound about right?


----------



## seanc6441

jogawag said:


> What happened to your Shozy Cygnus? !


No it's all good I just decided that with all this cygnus talk I better fix my own which had developed terrible rattling in the bass.

So I opened it up one side no issue, the other proved so difficult to remove the front plastic that away from the driver I have to break it off and replace with the black one above, a spare I had.

So I found that dirt in the driver was causing some of the rattle, but also that the diaphram was lose. In trying to take the driver in and out a few times for testing I got unlucky once and the tiny copper wire broke.... Dead driver now 

So then I thought, lets try use the drivers and front vent from my diy pk2 to test this theory of them all being the same or similar drivers to shozy.

Upon testing they sounded.... Amazing. I was shocked, it was a little brighter/cleaner sound than my Cygnus. Also the back housing foam was disintegrated and starting to tear (the cause of the loss of bass I'm 100% sure now). But with new foam in the back, new 'diy pk2' drivers and the Shozy cygnus cable and housing I made an earbud that I'm honestly surprised how good it sounds.

I'll give it a day or two for 'new earbud syndrome' to wear off and see where it stands burmt for now I'm becoming a cable believer 100%. The difference between this and the pk2 stock cable is not even a subtle difference. The detail is better, bass is more rounded and deeper. Way more sweet vocal tonality. Everything is a step up...

Soundstage is easily better than stock cygnus because I'm using thick ve donut foams and it's not clausterphobic at all. It's not huge but it's enough to capture the great imaging and separation I'm hearing.

So I'm actually thanking you for bringing up the cygnus and inadvertently leading me to create a 'diy earbud' I'm loving!!!


----------



## Sito Lupion

I would like to hear more comments about the NICEHCK EBX
I know it is not an honest comparison, but can someone compare them with the IMR R1? Which of them has the best bass?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

capnjack said:


> Message Wong he’ll have the information you want and I’m sure he will be able to let you know all about the whole range.


Unfortunately, Wong doesn't have a lot of specs to offer especially frequency response graphs.  Oh well, just grasping at straws there.  No worries, just curiosity.


----------



## menuki

Nothing special really, but I just pulled the trigger on the Monk Lite 120ohm. I hope I still get to drive them with my iPad Pro or P20 Pro.  Looking forward, but now the waiting game starts again. I'll probably just forget about them and be surprised-happy when they arrive.  If they are even better than the Monk Plus AND foremost fit me better, then I'll probably look around for an even better, more expensive one. Thanks for the recommendations guys!


----------



## kurtextrem

Zerohour88 said:


> I rarely see people go for the TO200 but all the way to TO400 instead. I got the TO180 specifically because I was worried I didn't have enough power to run the higher impedance buds (which is unfounded for the TO180 since its quite easy to drive). I assume you've used the TO400 for gaming too?
> 
> also, asked around on the earbud FB group, and from what I gather, hierarchy for the toneking stuff was TO200<TO400<TY2 Pro (mmcx version)<Masya (asked because its about the same price range). Does that sound about right?


I've never heard the TY2 Pro nor the Masya, but as I also had fit issues with the Tomahawk, I stepped back from buying Toneking stuff. The TO400 has a different shell and special drivers, so I went for it and was happy.


----------



## Danneq

Hi all!

It's been a while since I last posted here. I still check the thread regularly, though.

Right now the family is in Japan and earlier today I spent a couple of hours with Herry of Cypherus at e earphone store in Akihabara in Tokyo. I listened to and bought Zoomfred and also got a chance to listen to a new prototype, CAX White, which is close to CAX Black in sound. Apparently it uses the same driver as Campfred 1 but with better cables and other tweeks. I will probably be a limited edition with around 5 pairs made. I also got to listen to the CAX copper version of Xduoo X3 (I think that's the correct name). It sounded quite nice with a full sound and at the same time a deep and expansive soundstage.

I'm borrowing wifi at a Yodobashi store so this is short but I'll post some pics. I'm a terrible photographer (sorry @BloodyPenguin!) and Herry took the selfie    (mr Cypherus on the right in the photo of course)

After we said goodbye Herry went out to buy components for earbuds and other audio stuff.


----------



## menuki (Jul 2, 2018)

Already begin to love the Monk Plus. Bass is present, sub-bass may be a bit lacking, but the rest of the spectrum is awesome. Extremely comfortable, big sound, big soundstage, and the non-at-all-isolation can actually be a big advantage, especially when I'm at work and at times I have to hear if someone calls my name for example. Just crazy how good the sound of these are, now I'm kinda a bit less excited for my 12BAs flagship IEM which will be shipped soon, since I'm also really looking forward to the Monk Lite and/or a further more expensive Ear Bud.  

How did you guys learn to appreciate/love multiple EarBuds, Headphones, IEMs at the same time? It always feels like I want to channel all my love and appreciation into just one headphone. 

EDIT:

Aaaaaaaand they have been shipped. Just about 6 hours after the purchase, lovely. If I'm lucky I should have em in about a week. Until then I'll just drool over my Monks until they're soaked so that I'll need a replacement anyway.


----------



## 40760

For 99USD, should it be Penon BS1 or NiceHCK EBX?


----------



## j4100

menuki said:


> How did you guys learn to appreciate/love multiple EarBuds, Headphones, IEMs at the same time? It always feels like I want to channel all my love and appreciation into just one headphone



Easy! Buy a load and listen to them in turn 

I guess people have different reasons for using different types of earphones. I generally use closed back cans when on my PC for music and gaming and earbuds when using my DAP. This is where different types of earbuds come in. I use different ones for; sleeping (cheaper, but durable cables), out and about (better buds), or when my DAP is paired with my RA 2.0bl in a transportable but static config (my best buds). I bet everyone on here is similar unless only one source.

I don't use IEMs, despite buying a couple, as they irritate my ear canals.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Danneq said:


> I'm borrowing wifi at a Yodobashi store so this is short but I'll post some pics. I'm a terrible photographer (sorry @BloodyPenguin!) and Herry took the selfie



No need to be sorry, but you do have to take me with you next time!


----------



## Zerohour88

palestofwhite said:


> For 99USD, should it be Penon BS1 or NiceHCK EBX?



Something I'm wondering too. Toneking TY2, TO400 and Rose Masya are also all around the same price range

or just forget all of them and get Willsound PK32? lol


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache (Jul 2, 2018)

menuki said:


> Already begin to love the Monk Plus. Bass is present, sub-bass may be a bit lacking, but the rest of the spectrum is awesome. Extremely comfortable, big sound, big soundstage, and the non-at-all-isolation can actually be a big advantage, especially when I'm at work and at times I have to hear if someone calls my name for example. Just crazy how good the sound of these are, now I'm kinda a bit less excited for my 12BAs flagship IEM which will be shipped soon, since I'm also really looking forward to the Monk Lite and/or a further more expensive Ear Bud.
> 
> How did you guys learn to appreciate/love multiple EarBuds, Headphones, IEMs at the same time? It always feels like I want to channel all my love and appreciation into just one headphone.
> 
> ...




The Monk + have a great mid-rangey "growl" (while somehow avoiding harshness) that I find very appealing.  A lot of my favorite music is a bit "lo-fi" and noisy and the Monk + seems to suit that sound very well.  Anything guitar or horn-centered really sounds good.  I have the 40ohm Monk Lites and while they are definitely a more open, spacious sounding bud, they have a harshness in the 2khz region that I found bothersome.  You can really hear it with something like Like a Prayer by Madonna.  Her voice seems to be right in that region and it gets really grating. 

I've got the Pandas on the way now.


----------



## menuki

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> they have a harshness in the 2khz region that I found bothersome.  You can really hear it with something like Like a Prayer by Madonna.  Her voice seems to be right in that region and it gets really grating.
> 
> I've got the Pandas on the way now.



That is true, they can be harsh, but for 5$ it's still unbelievable how good they sound. But there is deff. room for improvement!


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

menuki said:


> That is true, they can be harsh, but for 5$ it's still unbelievable how good they sound. But there is deff. room for improvement!



just to be clear, the Monk + doesn't have that.  The 40ohm Lites do...


----------



## menuki

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> just to be clear, the Monk + doesn't have that.  The 40ohm Lites do...



Ooops! The Monk Plus do have a bit of a bright side at times though, but I'm very glad that I purchased the Monk Lite 120ohm, PHEW!


----------



## mbwilson111

menuki said:


> Ooops! The Monk Plus do have a bit of a bright side at times though, but I'm very glad that I purchased the Monk Lite 120ohm, PHEW!



I enjoy my Monk Lite 40 ohm AND my Monk Lite 120 ohm.  Standard cable on both.


----------



## menuki

mbwilson111 said:


> I enjoy my Monk Lite 40 ohm AND my Monk Lite 120 ohm.  Standard cable on both.



I think my phone won't be powerful enough to drive the 120 ohms, guess this means I'll have to get some further earbuds anyway lol. And this is how it all starts... xD


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jul 3, 2018)

menuki said:


> I think my phone won't be powerful enough to drive the 120 ohms, guess this means I'll have to get some further earbuds anyway lol. And this is how it all starts... xD



I use my buds and iems with DAPs not a phone.  A couple of my daps have pretty decent power.  So, my experience and recommendations may not be relevant for those using a phone.

I use my headphones (depending on their power needs) with either my desktop system, which includes a nice dac/amp,  with Foobar2000 playing Flac files on my PC as a source.  or with my tube amp using one of my DAPs as a source... or... straight out of one of my DAPs if it is a low impedance headphone.

I play full albums from these sources.  I never stream and I  never shuffle play.  All of this needs to be considered when reading my impressions of a bud.

Sometimes I plug buds into my desktop dac/amp when the weather is too hot for headphones.

If someone is thinking about buying a really expensive bud, iem or headphone it is worth considering whether or not you might want to put money into better sources first.

Having said all that, I am perfectly happy listening with one of my less expensive buds or iems from my little inexpensive Ruizu A50 DAP  (as long as the album does not require gapless play).

Most of the time I reach for my Cayin N3 which drives most of my stuff well.

@menuki
edited to add:
I also have portable amps that I can stack with my DAPS if necessary.  Many people use them with phones.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

Yeah I listen from several sources but it's always Spotify "extreme" files.  Not sure what impact shuffle would have?  

I don't dislike the 40ohm Lites at all.  If I EQ them down a tad at the 2-2.5khz region they sound very good.  But I prefer to avoid EQing if I can due to the fact that I use a few different sources and I switch buds and headphones pretty regularly.


----------



## mbwilson111

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> Not sure what impact shuffle would have?



I am just used to mentioning that in the dap threads because some players have no screen and/or do not let you choose albums.   No impact on the bud of course.  The main point is, my listening habits (and gear) may be quite different from someone elses.



Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> But I prefer to avoid EQing if I can due to the fact that I use a few different sources and I switch buds and headphones pretty regularly.



Yes, that is one reason why I don't use EQ.  It would be a nightmare.  I would need a  notebook to keep track of it all and consult that before listening to anything!


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

mbwilson111 said:


> I am just used to mentioning that in the dap threads because some players have no screen and/or do not let you choose albums.   No impact on the bud of course.  The main point is, my listening habits (and gear) may be quite different from someone elses.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that is one reason why I don't use EQ.  It would be a nightmare.  I would need a  notebook to keep track of it all and consult that before listening to anything!



Exactly...


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 2, 2018)

menuki said:


> I think my phone won't be powerful enough to drive the 120 ohms...



Monk Lite 120Ω (114 dB SPL/mW) Power Requirements

Calculator One (digiZoid) =  * 0.22 Vrms    1.83 mA    0.4 mW* *@  110 dB SPL
*
Calculator Two (headphonesty) =  *0.35 Vrms    2.9 mA    1.0 mW   @  110 dB SPL*


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> I am just used to mentioning that in the dap threads because some players have no screen and/or do not let you choose albums.   No impact on the bud of course.  The main point is, my listening habits (and gear) may be quite different from someone elses.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that is one reason why I don't use EQ.  It would be a nightmare.  I would need a  notebook to keep track of it all and consult that before listening to anything!



Sonarworks Reference 4


----------



## mbwilson111

groucho69 said:


> Sonarworks Reference 4



Not for me.  I  am happy with my gear the way it is.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

menuki said:


> I think my phone won't be powerful enough to drive the 120 ohms...


Here is another spreadsheet styled calculator created by Rob Robinette that I prefer above all others... I believe he has an app available now as well.


----------



## waynes world

menuki said:


> I think my phone won't be powerful enough to drive the 120 ohms, guess this means I'll have to get some further earbuds anyway lol. And this is how it all starts... xD



He he he... welcome to the club! 

Yes, I predict that you will end up getting one of the Willsounds to compliment your 120's


----------



## menuki (Sep 8, 2018)

First I thought, well, I'm gonna try a ton of EarBuds, maybe haha, not that I get addicted easily. Days pass and the e-mail notifications are strong... A new EarBud has been discovered, jeez they look good, god, how many quality EarBuds are there?! *Listens to Monk+ again* *J e s u s they sound good. *

This thread runs on the fuel of new and awesome EarBuds, and that is sick and amazing.


----------



## 40760

Zerohour88 said:


> Something I'm wondering too. Toneking TY2, TO400 and Rose Masya are also all around the same price range
> 
> or just forget all of them and get Willsound PK32? lol



PK32 incoming tomorrow...


----------



## seanc6441

palestofwhite said:


> PK32 incoming tomorrow...


Mine was shipped yesterday! Excited to try the new pk32


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> Mine was shipped yesterday! Excited to try the new pk32



I’m sure you’re going to love it when you get a properly replaced unit...


----------



## subwoof3r

Strangely my PK32 sounds much better on my FiiO E10K (70€) against my Fostex HP-A8C (1200€) 
A8C anyway is known to match TH900 well and roll-off a bit the highs and calms down a bit bass to forward slightly mids. 
The E10K is the perfect match for PK32 as all the A8C does is just forwarded on PK32 instead of the contrary on E10K which is neutral with slight "fun" sounding.

Since I use PK32 on E10K it's like I completely discover again my PK32. Highs are now never lacking of details, soundstage is even larger and bass fully explains now.
I wasn't a truly source believer until I got PK32 ^^

This PK32 is just a genius thing, a collector item that everyone should buy!
PK32 is better depending on the source used and slightly amped recommend.


----------



## jogawag (Jul 2, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Mine was shipped yesterday! Excited to try the new pk32





palestofwhite said:


> I’m sure you’re going to love it when you get a properly replaced unit...


Two people's sweet whispers of love to pk32 ...


----------



## redkingjoe

Now that I finally got my first hiend mmcx cable! 

Which one mmcx earbud should I go after first? 

ebx or Sara L pro ? Or…


----------



## redkingjoe

rkw said:


> $1000 is basically unlimited budget for an earbud. There are only a handful of earbuds over $300 and I can't think of any as high as $1000.



That’s not true! 

For 1000, it’s merely enough to get the very best! 

For example, a K’s Poseidon (silver mmcx head) upgrade with a  Siltech double crown headphone cable(with modification) But it might be difficult to get the Poseidon silver earbud head! Siltech is the cheapest top tier TOTL high end headphone cable that one can buy.

After getting the Siltech cable, we can consider getting other top mmcx earbud head eg ebx, sara L pro, pursound ps100-600 to test for the best head


----------



## WoodyLuvr

^
@redkingjoe Disgusting...


----------



## 40760

PK32 is finally here... burning in commences...

The cables of this replaced piece is thicker than the one I originally returned. Very nice cables that I prefer over the older one...


----------



## subwoof3r

palestofwhite said:


> PK32 is finally here... burning in commences...
> 
> The cables of this replaced piece is thicker than the one I originally returned. Very nice cables that I prefer over the older one...


So, what's your initial impressions on bass ? you should definitely see any night and day difference between your old and new pair 
Also, can you take a picture of your cable ? my replaced PK32 pair has exact same cable as the first one.


----------



## 40760

subwoof3r said:


> So, what's your initial impressions on bass ? you should definitely see any night and day difference between your old and new pair
> Also, can you take a picture of your cable ? my replaced PK32 pair has exact same cable as the first one.



Sound wise, it's about as good as when the previous one worked.

ATM, lower end doesn't extend as much as the already burned in MK3, but to be fair this thing only had about 1 – 2 hours of playtime.

All I can say is I already like what I'm hearing! Will need to put another 50 – 100 hours into this thing to see how it evolves!


----------



## chaiyuta

@redkingjoe : What plug type is your primary? 3.5 mm. or 2.5 mm. plug? Currently, I primarily use the 4.4 mm. plug.


----------



## redkingjoe

chaiyuta said:


> @redkingjoe : What plug type is your primary? 3.5 mm. or 2.5 mm. plug? Currently, I primarily use the 4.4 mm. plug.


I’m using 3.5

4.4 is balance!


----------



## seanc6441

palestofwhite said:


> PK32 is finally here... burning in commences...
> 
> The cables of this replaced piece is thicker than the one I originally returned. Very nice cables that I prefer over the older one...


Pics of the earbud/cable? Wanna see what I'm in for!


----------



## redkingjoe

Danneq said:


> Hi all!
> 
> It's been a while since I last posted here. I still check the thread regularly, though.
> 
> Right now the family is in Japan and earlier today I spent a couple of hours with Herry of Cypherus at e earphone store in Akihabara in Tokyo. I listened to and bought Zoomfred and also got a chance to listen to a new prototype, CAX White, which is close to CAX Black in sound. Apparently it uses the same driver as Campfred 1 but with better cables and other tweeks. ]



Frankly speaking, I believe the cable is a significant limitation factor for current earbud! 

I’m gearing up TOTL cable with mmcx connection, than I will feed them with TOTL earbuds heads. 

You are welcome to bring your CAX red bull to compare.


----------



## 40760 (Jul 3, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Pics of the earbud/cable? Wanna see what I'm in for!



Unfortunately, the camera on my phone is faulty... I'll need to see if I can borrow a camera or maybe even change my phone altogether... 

I may have gotten one from an older batch initially, so you guys might not notice any cable change even after replacement... Which is not a bad thing at all 

According to Willy, there's now a PK16 which is rated at 16ohms which is more suited for mobile use...


----------



## subwoof3r

palestofwhite said:


> Sound wise, it's about as good as when the previous one worked.
> 
> ATM, lower end doesn't extend as much as the already burned in MK3, but to be fair this thing only had about 1 – 2 hours of playtime.
> 
> All I can say is I already like what I'm hearing! Will need to put another 50 – 100 hours into this thing to see how it evolves!


Let's see after fully burning  (personally I found the sound to be settle on my PK32 in approx 180 hours)
Bass should have as impact as MK2.2 without the mid-bass hump (even if PK32 is not designed to be for bass-heads, of course).

Btw, my complete review is almost finished (need to finish editing few photos and finalise some parts)


----------



## 40760 (Jul 3, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> Let's see after fully burning  (personally I found the sound to be settle on my PK32 in approx 180 hours)
> Bass should have as impact as MK2.2 without the mid-bass hump (even if PK32 is not designed to be for bass-heads, of course).
> 
> Btw, my complete review is almost finished (need to finish editing few photos and finalise some parts)



Already looking forward to your review!

But sound qualities aside, I find it particularly odd that while the MX500 shells fit my ears comfortably, it's surprising that the much smaller PK shells doesn't come loose at all.

While both designs feel pretty similar when in my ears, I think the lower profile of the PK shells are more versatile, especially for people who listens when lying down...

Based on current earbuds market, it feels as if the MX500 shells are easier to tune for bass, while the smaller PK32 seems harder to work with...

Edit: PK16 anyone? What do you people think the lower impedance can do to the already outstanding PK32?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Wong kindly sent the following pics of the completed *Blur 美魔女 (<<mimajyo>>) "Beautiful Witch" 300Ω* ear buds that he is shipping to me.


----------



## jogawag

palestofwhite said:


> Edit: PK16 anyone? What do you people think the lower impedance can do to the already outstanding PK32?



I heard about "PK16" from Willy.

"PK16" is mainly for more easy to drive, and is almost the same sound as PK32.
"PK16" will be ready maybe next month.


----------



## waynes world

jogawag said:


> I heard about "PK16" from Willy.
> 
> "PK16" is mainly for more easy to drive, and is almost the same sound as PK32.
> "PK16" will be ready maybe next month.



I presume the PK32 is 32ohm. 32ohms seems pretty easy to drive in my books. What sources would benefit from 16ohm?


----------



## jogawag

waynes world said:


> I presume the PK32 is 32ohm. 32ohms seems pretty easy to drive in my books. What sources would benefit from 16ohm?


Sorry, I have not heard anything more detailed.
Please ask @WillSound directly.


----------



## rkw

menuki said:


> How did you guys learn to appreciate/love multiple EarBuds, Headphones, IEMs at the same time? It always feels like I want to channel all my love and appreciation into just one headphone.


For some of the people here, collecting and comparing earbuds is a hobby in itself. They enjoy switching back and forth between earbuds, and buying and owning different buds is part of the hobby.

However, I feel the same as you. I want to settle on one earbud to use for most of my listening. I haven't found the right one yet that fully satisfies me, but so far I've only tried a few mid-level and none of the TOTL models.


----------



## 40760

rkw said:


> For some of the people here, collecting and comparing earbuds is a hobby in itself. They enjoy switching back and forth between earbuds, and buying and owning different buds is part of the hobby.
> 
> However, I feel the same as you. I want to settle on one earbud to use for most of my listening. I haven't found the right one yet that fully satisfies me, but so far I've only tried a few mid-level and none of the TOTL models.



After going the first route... I'm now trying the 2nd route myself...


----------



## waynes world

palestofwhite said:


> After going the first route... I'm now trying the 2nd route myself...



Good luck with that!


----------



## waynes world

Name your favorite buds for trance or other electronic music!

For me, when I try various buds for the genre, the bully Svara L's (32ohm) come along, laugh, kick dirt in the other buds faces, and then take their rightful place in my ears lol


----------



## capnjack (Jul 3, 2018)

I personally like the Willsound Mk.1 rev.2


----------



## subwoof3r

My final WillSound PK32 review is *now live*! 
Enjoy 

Any question will be answered with pleasure
Cheers'


----------



## HungryPanda

Trance a decent amp and Toneking TO400


----------



## noknok23 (Jul 3, 2018)

waynes world said:


> Name your favorite buds for trance or other electronic music!
> 
> For me, when I try various buds for the genre, the bully Svara L's (32ohm) come along, laugh, kick dirt in the other buds faces, and then take their rightful place in my ears lol


Samsara has a very satisfying bass slam. Almost too much for me though.
Campfred 1 is excellent for old school techno.


----------



## redkingjoe (Jul 3, 2018)

waynes world said:


> Name your favorite buds for trance or other electronic music!
> 
> For me, when I try various buds for the genre, the bully Svara L's (32ohm) come along, laugh, kick dirt in the other buds faces, and then take their rightful place in my ears lol




I have just ordered it! But I have got the pro model! Just don’t know what’s the difference between the two


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Name your favorite buds for trance or other electronic music!
> 
> For me, when I try various buds for the genre, the bully Svara L's (32ohm) come along, laugh, kick dirt in the other buds faces, and then take their rightful place in my ears lol



Svara L, MK2, and Blox B200


----------



## seanc6441

redkingjoe said:


> I have just ordered it! But I have got the pro model! Just don’t know what’s the difference between the two


Search Svara L Pro comments by ClieOS he made a few comments on the differences that may interest you.


----------



## redkingjoe

seanc6441 said:


> Search Svara L Pro comments by ClieOS he made a few comments on the differences that may interest you.



Thank you for all your kindness! I just did. That’s really very helpful!

 I learned a lot from you! You are really my true  North Star!


----------



## redkingjoe

Just ordered ebx and Svara L pro...and notice that the svara l pro seems to be a better buy! It’s with dual diaphragm but $30 cheaper!


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> I am actually listening to them today



The DQSM Pandas that I ordered for my friend, have arrived.
If she wants more Bass, should I suggest a Thicker Full Foam, or a Donut Foam?


----------



## chinmie

DBaldock9 said:


> The DQSM Pandas that I ordered for my friend, have arrived.
> If she wants more Bass, should I suggest a Thicker Full Foam, or a Donut Foam?



Thicker foam if you like the overall balance of the frequency. Donuts will usually dips the mids and change the soundstage. Foam rolling on earbuds is a must. Just experiment with various foams, you'll never know which ones will surprise you


----------



## subwoof3r (Jul 4, 2018)

waynes world said:


> Name your favorite buds for trance or other electronic music!


For me I would name *EMX500S* first (due to its such appreciable sub-bass and overall bass quantity) and Willsound *MK2.2* in second (due to its more linear and controlled mids which sometimes may help when some vocals on certain tracks) 
And well I feel bored by all this bass invasion, I grab my PK32 pair 
I don't have anymore MK1.2 but if I remember well I was enjoying well on this music genre too (even if personally I prefered MK2.2).


----------



## Danneq

redkingjoe said:


> Frankly speaking, I believe the cable is a significant limitation factor for current earbud!
> 
> I’m gearing up TOTL cable with mmcx connection, than I will feed them with TOTL earbuds heads.
> 
> You are welcome to bring your CAX red bull to compare.



Herry of Cypherus is mainly focusing on cables right now. Red Dragon and Zoomfred uses cables that have been exposed to cryogenic treatment. The recommended burn time for Zoomfred is 300 hours mainly because of the cable and if I remember correcly Red Dragon is closer to 1000 hours in recommended burn time. I'm nowhere there yet. Zoomfred also uses very strong magnets and Herry recommends owners to not put the face of the earbuds against eachother since the coils moght come undone because of the strong magnets.

I've listened more to Zoomfred and compared it to my pair of Campfred 1 which I brought to Japan and Zoomfred is way more realistic in instrument separation and layering. The soundstage


----------



## Danneq (Jul 4, 2018)

redkingjoe said:


> Frankly speaking, I believe the cable is a significant limitation factor for current earbud!
> 
> I’m gearing up TOTL cable with mmcx connection, than I will feed them with TOTL earbuds heads.
> 
> You are welcome to bring your CAX red bull to compare.



Herry of Cypherus is mainly focusing on cables right now. Red Dragon and Zoomfred uses cables that have been exposed to cryogenic treatment. The recommended burn time for Zoomfred is 300 hours mainly because of the cable and if I remember correcly Red Dragon is closer to 1000 hours in recommended burn time. I'm nowhere there yet. Zoomfred also uses very strong magnets and Herry recommends owners to not put the face of the earbuds against eachother since the coils moght come undone because of the strong magnets.

I've listened more to Zoomfred and compared it to my pair of Campfred 1 which I brought to Japan and Zoomfred is way more realistic in instrument separation and layering. The soundstage is deep and wide. Zoomfred is highly recommended. I would say you get at least 90% of Red Dragon with Zoomfred in a more portable format. I wanted to buy Moondrop Liebesleid in Japan but cannot find it. But that's okay now. Zoomfred is enough for a new earbud at the moment.


----------



## jogawag (Jul 6, 2018)

DBaldock9 said:


> The DQSM Pandas that I ordered for my friend, have arrived.
> If she wants more Bass, should I suggest a Thicker Full Foam, or a Donut Foam?


You should suggest a Donut Foam.
I also have DQSM Panda PK2s and I Use it with Donuts Foam.

The MX500 type Shell has small holes only on the edge side of the speaker face, so Donuts Foam increase bass with damaging treble and mid.
But PK type Shell has many small sound holes all around of speaker face, so Donuts Foam can increase bass without damaging treble and mid.


----------



## DAndrew

Danneq said:


> Herry of Cypherus is mainly focusing on cables right now. Red Dragon and Zoomfred uses cables that have been exposed to cryogenic treatment. The recommended burn time for Zoomfred is 300 hours mainly because of the cable and if I remember correcly Red Dragon is closer to 1000 hours in recommended burn time. I'm nowhere there yet. Zoomfred also uses very strong magnets and Herry recommends owners to not put the face of the earbuds against eachother since the coils moght come undone because of the strong magnets.
> 
> I've listened more to Zoomfred and compared it to my pair of Campfred 1 which I brought to Japan and Zoomfred is way more realistic in instrument separation and layering. The soundstage



How is the ZoomFred compared to the CampFred 2 ? I am looking to buy a CAX earbud but the price is kinda high considering it uses a mx500 shell


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 4, 2018)

DAndrew said:


> ...but the price is kinda high considering it uses a mx500 shell


Besides the use of some exotic metal/material is there really much difference in plastic shells cost wise... wither they be mx500 styled or not?

I always thought it was the drivers, connectors, and then the cabling (again, other than those speciality wired cases) that drove a price.  Shells having the least effect on the final price. Am I missing something?


----------



## DAndrew

WoodyLuvr said:


> Besides the use of some exotic metal/material is there really much difference in plastic shells cost wise... wither they be mx500 styled or not?
> 
> I always thought it was the drivers, connectors, and then the cabling (again, other than those speciality wired cases) that drove a price.  Shells having the least effect on the final price. Am I missing something?



I meant that at this price point I would expect a metal housing of some sort at least...most TOTL earbuds at this price range use a metal shell be it brass or steel or w/e


----------



## chinmie

DAndrew said:


> I meant that at this price point I would expect a metal housing of some sort at least...most TOTL earbuds at this price range use a metal shell be it brass or steel or w/e



I think so too. At that high price, people won't mind spending a bit more for better shell material.


----------



## Danneq (Jul 4, 2018)

DAndrew said:


> How is the ZoomFred compared to the CampFred 2 ? I am looking to buy a CAX earbud but the price is kinda high considering it uses a mx500 shell



CF2 is more intimate with a less wide and deep soundstage than ZF. I havent compared them directly, only ZF to CF1. But CF2 is an improvement to CF1 and has the overall same sound signature, just more bass impact and better detail. Zoomfred is just bigger sounding with better instrument separation and layering. My wife listened to them and said "amazing, it sounds like headphones".
But both are highly recommended and I'm glad to own both. Both have a sort of analogue sound that fits me perfectly.

And concerning the housing, Cypherus is a one man DIY company who focuses on sound. The housing is standard housing but the sound is premium (mainly because of the cables used). I prefer to pay for sound instead of design.
I want to try other TOTL earbuds but Cypherus keep overwhelming me. So far I have owned most vintage Sony (E252, 282 &484) and Aiwa (V99 & D9) TOTL earbuds as well as more current ones such as Yuin PK1, Rose Mojito, Celsus Gramo One and Shozy BK and I prefer the best Cypherus buds to those. Shozy BK is nice and Aiwa D9 has got a wonderful and huge soundstage though (even if ZF has almost got an equally big soundstage). Those two are the only ones I have not sold.


----------



## DAndrew

Danneq said:


> CF2 is more intimate with a less wide and deep soundstage than ZF. I havent compared them directly, only ZF to CF1. But CF2 is an improvement to CF1 and has the overall same sound signature, just more bass impact and better detail. Zoomfred is just bigger sounding with better instrument separation and layering. My wife listened to them and said "amazing, it sounds like headphones".
> But both are highly recommended and I'm glad to own both. Both have a sort of analogue sound that fits me perfectly.
> 
> And concerning the housing, Cypherus is a one man DIY company who focuses on sound. The housing is standard housing but the sound is premium (mainly because of the cables used). I prefer to pay for sound instead of design.
> I want to try other TOTL earbuds but Cypherus keep overwhelming me. So far I have owned most vintage Sony (E252, 282 &484) and Aiwa (V99 & D9) TOTL earbuds as well as more current ones such as Yuin PK1, Rose Mojito, Celsus Gramo One and Shozy BK and I prefer the best Cypherus buds to those. Shozy BK is nice and Aiwa D9 has got a wonderful and huge soundstage though (even if ZF has almost got an equally big soundstage). Those two are the only ones I have not sold.



Which one has the better bass between them in your opinon? 

Concerning the build of the buds...I dont expect a unique design, but even a metal mx500 shell would be better considering you pay a lot of money...


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 4, 2018)

redkingjoe said:


> Thank you for all your kindness! I just did. That’s really very helpful!
> 
> I learned a lot from you! You are really my true  North Star!



Thank you for the kind words 


WoodyLuvr said:


> Besides the use of some exotic metal/material is there really much difference in plastic shells cost wise... wither they be mx500 styled or not?
> 
> I always thought it was the drivers, connectors, and then the cabling (again, other than those speciality wired cases) that drove a price.  Shells having the least effect on the final price. Am I missing something?


Well, for me it matters somewhat.

1)Plastic doesn’t feel as good in the ear, the heavier brass shell of my Ling sits slightly more solidly, but trade off is additional weight so it can be an issue only if the cable it too heavy (Ling is not too heavy though). Bass also seems to vibrate the shell in a more satisfying manner. I guess this is just the resonance properties of metal vs plastic.

2) The way the venting is done to MX500 shells usually means there are no central vents and thus tuning with foams has less of an effect especially donuts which work much differently on fully vented shells or PK shell which has vents closer to the middle.

3) The size and fit. It’s not actually uncomfortable with thin-no foams, but it’s a slightly bulky for me and others especially with thick foams. I won’t consider this a con though, more just a design choice.

So while the MX500 shell wouldn’t completely dissuade me from buying a TOTL earbud, it is something I consider now after experiencing my first brass shell earbud which I prefer overall.


----------



## Danneq

DAndrew said:


> Which one has the better bass between them in your opinon?
> 
> Concerning the build of the buds...I dont expect a unique design, but even a metal mx500 shell would be better considering you pay a lot of money...



Both have got great bass but without being able to compare them directly I'd say that the bass on ZF has got even more impact and better texture than CF2. But CF2 is pretty damn good.

I see how you think, but in the case of Cypherus and other Indonesian earbud DIY makers it's mainly a question of resources and a need to choose what to focus on. A pair of Cypherus earbuds with custom made shells would probably cost $50-100 more than they do now.


----------



## DAndrew

Danneq said:


> Both have got great bass but without being able to compare them directly I'd say that the bass on ZF has got even more impact and better texture than CF2. But CF2 is pretty damn good.
> 
> I see how you think, but in the case of Cypherus and other Indonesian earbud DIY makers it's mainly a question of resources and a need to choose what to focus on. A pair of Cypherus earbuds with custom made shells would probably cost $50-100 more than they do now.



Thank you very much for the info, I am really wanting to buy the ZoomFred from all the hype but I have no idea if I will like the house sound...I wish I could audition a pair but being from Europe its impossible...


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 4, 2018)

DAndrew said:


> Thank you very much for the info, I am really wanting to buy the ZoomFred from all the hype but I have no idea if I will like the house sound...I wish I could audition a pair but being from Europe its impossible...


The struggle is real my friend. We are born on the wrong side of the world for this hobby. 

Being a big fan if badminton also, I have a huge incentive to visit a few asian countries and enjoy two of my favorite things at once lol.

On that note, to any Japanese watching the World Cup, you guys were absolutely brilliant and didn't deserve to go out vs Belgium. What a great game, without any cheating/diving antics. Just pure football


----------



## Carrow

So I've had no time to audition the Blur Ultimate Brokee set I got last week, due to my Shanling M3s being killed on impact when I dropped it last weekend. Very quickly sorted myself out with a Fiio X1ii and have been using a pair of VE Zen Lite buds with it + my NX1s amp. Thanks @ZOMBIEWINEGUM for selling me those, I quite like them thus far  I have a 2.5mm-3.5mm adapter to pick up at the weekend, and will be running the Ultimate Brokees single-ended since my X1ii has no balanced out. Not ideal but I'm glad I can still put the Blur set I paid for to good use


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jul 4, 2018)

My Black Panther is in the country... left Singapore yesterday.

This item has been received at *LANGLEY HWDC, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland*. More information will be available as it travels through our UK network.

One of these is mine.. I wonder which one.  He had three made when we ordered mine.


----------



## RuFrost

Zen Black; Dimones lv1, lv2; Shozy BK; BS1 Official. - fantastic 5)) 
Sincerely saying, I do not know which one is better. The reason I got all of them is I wanted to find the only one. I still dream about it though. Zoomfred is on my list!


----------



## ShabtabQ

Are the Blur earbuds compared anywhere, all of them are kinda expensive except the Black Panther, how do the panthers compare to the willsounds?


----------



## ZOMBIEWINEGUM

Carrow said:


> So I've had no time to audition the Blur Ultimate Brokee set I got last week, due to my Shanling M3s being killed on impact when I dropped it last weekend. Very quickly sorted myself out with a Fiio X1ii and have been using a pair of VE Zen Lite buds with it + my NX1s amp. Thanks @ZOMBIEWINEGUM for selling me those, I quite like them thus far  I have a 2.5mm-3.5mm adapter to pick up at the weekend, and will be running the Ultimate Brokees single-ended since my X1ii has no balanced out. Not ideal but I'm glad I can still put the Blur set I paid for to good use


No problem hope you like them


----------



## Carrow

mbwilson111 said:


> My Black Panther is in the country... left Singapore yesterday.



Watch as it's held at customs for a stupid length of time for like no reason, if my order is anything to go by


----------



## mbwilson111

Carrow said:


> Watch as it's held at customs for a stupid length of time for like no reason, if my order is anything to go by



I am hoping not...

How long was your Blur held at customs?  Did you have to pay import fees?


----------



## Carrow

mbwilson111 said:


> I am hoping not...
> 
> How long was your Blur held at customs?  Did you have to pay import fees?



3 whole-ass weeks. No I did not (thankfully, since my buds cost me €115 to begin with!) and hopefully you don't have to!


----------



## mbwilson111

Carrow said:


> 3 whole-ass weeks. No I did not (thankfully, since my buds cost me €115 to begin with!) and hopefully you don't have to!



What were they doing?  Burning them in for you?


----------



## Carrow

mbwilson111 said:


> What were they doing?  Burning them in for you?



they sounded great from the off so I'm guessing not


----------



## capnjack

mbwilson111 said:


> I am hoping not...
> 
> How long was your Blur held at customs?  Did you have to pay import fees?


Mine went straight through and no extra duty either.


----------



## rkw (Jul 4, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> So while the MX500 shell wouldn’t completely dissuade me from buying a TOTL earbud, it is something I consider now after experiencing my first brass shell earbud which I prefer overall.


Here is the issue I have with expensive earbuds using cheap generic shells.

The manufacturer has (I hope) put a lot of work into customizing and optimizing drivers and cables. How about the shell? Everything should be integrated to work optimally together. Ideally the shell would be custom designed to perform as a complete system with the other components. Stuffing everything into a generic shell makes me feel that the end result isn't as good as it could have been. If you are aspiring to be top-of-the-line — among the best, then it is skipping a major step. The job is incomplete. It is like a high-end speaker manufacturer not designing and making their own cabinets, and using a cabinet from a DIY speaker kit.

Obviously creating a custom shell is a extra step for production, compared to buying a generic off-the-shelf shell. However, with CNC for metal or 3D printing for plastic, custom shells should be within reach even for small manufacturers, and certainly for a high end product. Development of a shell requires acoustic and 3D design expertise completely different from the electrical side. If a high-end earbud is using a generic shell, the manufacturer probably lacks the expertise to design a custom one.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

menuki said:


> How did you guys learn to appreciate/love multiple EarBuds, Headphones, IEMs at the same time? It always feels like I want to channel all my love and appreciation into just one headphone. .


I got a marriage license for one pair of headphones so now I can't cheat on them with another pair. You should do that. I got my license in Las Vegas where anyone can marry anything.


----------



## redkingjoe

rkw said:


> Here is the issue I have with expensive earbuds using cheap generic shells.
> 
> The manufacturer has (I hope) put a lot of work into customizing and optimizing drivers and cables. How about the shell? Everything should be integrated to work optimally together. Ideally the shell would be custom designed to perform as a complete system with the other components. Stuffing everything into a generic shell makes me feel that the end result isn't as good as it could have been. If you are aspiring to be top-of-the-line — among the best, then it is skipping a major step. The job is incomplete. It is like a high-end speaker manufacturer not designing and making their own cabinets, and using a cabinet from a DIY speaker kit.
> 
> Obviously creating a custom shell is a extra step for production, compared to buying a generic off-the-shelf shell. However, with CNC for metal or 3D printing for plastic, custom shells should be within reach even for small manufacturers, and certainly for a high end product. Development of a shell requires acoustic and 3D design expertise completely different from the electrical side. If a high-end earbud is using a generic shell, the manufacturer probably lacks the expertise to design a custom one.


For high end TOTL, In reality,  the highest cost is with the cable. And that’s the reason that I am swirch to mmcx earbuds. I learn this from the IEM and headphone. Many users even use cable that is more expensive than the IEM or headphone itself. 

Please check, the cable price of Shozy Bk, it’s us$130, the cable with earbud is $165 and the same earbud with silver cable is $300.

Another example is VE! I believe a lot of people know about the story of turning monk+ to TOTL. Now with the same earbud, VE provides us with a chance to use high end cables from Cardas and Oyidea! You can pick cable changeable version, the normal, the black and the white. If you buy the cable changeable version, there’s a option to use their Oyidea cable or buy some after marker cable.

FYI, a lot of IEM selling for 1000-2000 will provide you with a cheap cable, waiting for you to optimise the sound by upgrading.


----------



## rkw

redkingjoe said:


> For high end TOTL, In reality,  the highest cost is with the cable.


If the cable dominates the cost, then it only serves to validate my point. There would be no excuse not to design a custom body/shell to optimize the performance.


----------



## redkingjoe (Jul 5, 2018)

rkw said:


> If the cable dominates the cost, then it only serves to validate my point. There would be no excuse not to design a custom body/shell to optimize the performance.



Sony did it 20years ago! The mdr e 2x2, 4x4, 8x8 series are with unique shells, cable quality, diaphragm, carrier, custom to each model commensurate with the price and performance.

Sadly, Sony abandons high end earbud market and go after the high yield IEM.

Earbuds are very backwards now. It’s difficult to find a better earbuds a few ears ago. I think earbuds are picking up with quality and price!


----------



## DAndrew

Not sure if this is allowed here so let me know and I will remove it if not. I am selling some of my buds to fund my ZoomFred purchase https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wts-toneking-to400s-ks-earphone-k300-samsara-blur-300.883498/ so if anyone is interested pm me and we can discuss the pricing


----------



## DAndrew

By the way guys, I saw that there are discord/irc channels for speakers, iems , headphones, etc. Are there such servers for earbuds?


----------



## 40760

The PK32 has elevated my love for earbuds...


----------



## tukangketik

There might be more and more DIY earbuds coming using custom brass/wood shells. I see that some DIY merchant already selling some of these in taobao. But these alone would cost equal to Qian69/39 as i see it there.


Spoiler: shells


----------



## DAndrew

tukangketik said:


> There might be more and more DIY earbuds coming using custom brass/wood shells. I see that some DIY merchant already selling some of these in taobao. But these alone would cost equal to Qian69/39 as i see it there.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: shells



Those do look very nice and I wouldnt mind the price increase


----------



## chinmie

tukangketik said:


> There might be more and more DIY earbuds coming using custom brass/wood shells. I see that some DIY merchant already selling some of these in taobao. But these alone would cost equal to Qian69/39 as i see it there.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: shells



That's Liebesleid and Ourart shells


----------



## DAndrew

chinmie said:


> That's Liebesleid and Ourart shells



Still an upgrade from the mx500


----------



## 40760 (Jul 5, 2018)

Here we go again... 

Already thinking of getting a BS1...


----------



## crabdog

The MEMT T5 - not the best sounding bud out there but the overall package makes it great value.
https://primeaudio.org/memt-t5-earbud-review/


----------



## chinmie

DAndrew said:


> Still an upgrade from the mx500



yup, definitely an upgrade. if it has the same material, it's going to be great


----------



## kurtextrem

I wonder what people say on Shozy Cygnus vs PK32?


----------



## seanc6441

kurtextrem said:


> I wonder what people say on Shozy Cygnus vs PK32?


I can only compare to my Cygnus/DIY PK2 frankenbud lol

Oh and my BK because I finally got my FIIO adapter!!!


----------



## RobinFood

seanc6441 said:


> I can only compare to my Cygnus/DIY PK2 frankenbud lol
> 
> Oh and my BK because I finally got my FIIO adapter!!!



Can't wait for that! I am REALLY enjoying the MK2, and think I will get the PK32.
I can't believe how good they sound, and I got my clip case for my M0 tonight. Absolute freedom without compromising SQ!
The only thing I want more of is more forward mids. Everything seems to point to the PK32 being the perfect bud for my preferences!


----------



## mbwilson111

RobinFood said:


> Can't wait for that! I am REALLY enjoying the MK2, and think I will get the PK32.
> I can't believe how good they sound, and I got my clip case for my M0 tonight. Absolute freedom without compromising SQ!
> The only thing I want more of is more forward mids. Everything seems to point to the PK32 being the perfect bud for my preferences!



Sometimes I wonder if some of the people in the iem threads who want certain signatures should be invited here  They might be surprised.


----------



## gazzington

Ive been using the will sound mk2 for a week now.  Absolutely love them.  Bargain people


----------



## mbwilson111

The Black Panther is in the house!  Exactly a week after ordering.  Safely protected in this sturdy little water tight container which I will probably keep it in.   Just a padded envelope with this inside.
I can see packs of foams underneath the bud.

The photo shows it exactly as it was in the case when I opened it.


----------



## gazzington

mbwilson111 said:


> The Black Panther is in the house!  Exactly a week after ordering.  Safely protected in this sturdy little water tight container which I will probably keep it in.   Just a padded envelope with this inside.
> I can see packs of foams underneath the bud.
> 
> The photo shows it exactly as it was in the case when I opened it.


i keep mine in that container.  I was not that keen on them at first but they really react well to a burn in.  Sound wonderful now


----------



## seanc6441

My only complaint of the mk2 would be the sharp vocals at times, it seems like a peak is causing some tracks to get very sharp on vocals that I don’t experience nearly as much with most of my other buds.

In the grand scheme it’s not a major issue at this price, also EQ could potentially fix it if I really cared to do so.

Still waiting on my pk32, and currently enjoying my shozy bk again with Hiegi full foams with a donut cut out and flipped so the pre cut thicker side is facing the ear. Why? Because it is the closest to the original bk foam which you only got one pair of... and it’s sounds great with this hiegi. Full bass, soundstage because spacious enough to remove most congestion, treble is still detailed and airy. Just needs EQ if you want to take away the low mid emphasis which can cover some details.

Forgot how nice the imaging is on the BK and how airy it sounds.


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> My only complaint of the mk2 would be the sharp vocals at times, it seems like a peak is causing some tracks to get very sharp on vocals that I don’t experience nearly as much with most of my other buds.



I think you really need to try the MK3... It solves that problem.


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> yup, definitely an upgrade. if it has the same material, it's going to be great


Wait I wonder if it will fit mx500 drivers? 15.2mm driver is it?


----------



## seanc6441

palestofwhite said:


> I think you really need to try the MK3... It solves that problem.


But what will solve the problem of my empty wallet?


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> But what will solve the problem of my empty wallet?



 Speaking of which...

Would you recommend the BS1?


----------



## tim0chan

seanc6441 said:


> But what will solve the problem of my empty wallet?





palestofwhite said:


> Speaking of which...
> 
> Would you recommend the BS1?


+1 and also, a quick comparison btw BS1 and bk?


----------



## toear

Hi all, 

I did some searching and didn't find any answers so I'm hoping someone can help me out...

I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on a comparison between the HE150 Pro and the Svara L Pro?

From what I can gather they are similar in sound signature but the Svara L has better sq?

Any other suggestions for an upgrade? 

A reference track for me would be any track of the Stone Roses first album (1989). If that album plays back with relatively laid back mids and highs with decent bass presence (more neutral/laid back and smooth mid highs) (the album is bass light and more mid centric) the bud will work with most of the other music I listen to. I find that album very demanding with some of my earphones... 

Thanks and much appreciated!


----------



## mbwilson111

gazzington said:


> i keep mine in that container.  I was not that keen on them at first but they really react well to a burn in.  Sound wonderful now



How long did you burn them in?  Is there a recommended number of hours?


----------



## gazzington

I'm not sure what the recommendation is but I must have given them over 50 hrs.


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> Sometimes I wonder if some of the people in the iem threads who want certain signatures should be invited here  They might be surprised.



Yes, more people should be exposed to the earbud world!


----------



## seanc6441

palestofwhite said:


> Speaking of which...
> 
> Would you recommend the BS1?


I have done in the past but my stance on them is that the likeky fit and cable weight issue is not worth the gamble. They are good but without the ideal circumstances (ear shape for fit, over ear wearing to deal with cable weight) it's now my opinion that you can just buy an alternative that doesn't have these problems and enjoy them without hassle.

Of course when I originally recommend them I didn't realise the extent of the fit or cable issue because my brain was telling me I just needed to adjust to the new earbud. Now I realise what a hassle that earbud was.

With all those Willsounds you are not missing out on SQ until you go to $150+ to be honest. I don't think the BS1/Masya/TO400s etc will be a worthy step up judging from your Willsound collection after hearing the MK2.

Next step for you if you wanted a proper upgrade would be mid-high TOTL earbuds like zoomfred/ling/Liebesleid etc.

Such is the quality of the Willsounds.


----------



## 40760 (Jul 5, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> I have done in the past but my stance on them is that the likeky fit and cable weight issue is not worth the gamble. They are good but without the ideal circumstances (ear shape for fit, over ear wearing to deal with cable weight) it's now my opinion that you can just buy an alternative that doesn't have these problems and enjoy them without hassle.
> 
> Of course when I originally recommend them I didn't realise the extent of the fit or cable issue because my brain was telling me I just needed to adjust to the new earbud. Now I realise what a hassle that earbud was.
> 
> ...



Thank you! That's very assuring and you just helped me save some money... 

I'll just keep my money and wait till I have enough for the absolute TOTL...


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 5, 2018)

tim0chan said:


> +1 and also, a quick comparison btw BS1 and bk?


As I said above I will not recommend the bs1 on fit and cable weight issue anymore.

I will still recommend the BK because

-Super light and comfortable shell, excellent quality cable that's also light

- Linear frequency response that's easy to EQ. If you take out the bloat in the low mids it's an excellent fairly neutral response (on my brighter LG V20)

- The detail is good, only overshadowed by the low mid bloat, take it out and it gains clarity in that region also. Great balance of texture and smoothness. Never too harsh which the Mojito can be guilty of with it's slightly more extreme detail.

- Bass extension while not at the most impressive levels compared to other TOTL buds, is very respectable for a PK shell. It has just enough depth and the right amount of mid bass for an impact on most genres.

I recommend using it with a brighter source, or using EQ. It's soundstage can go from congested to medium space with some mild EQ and testing of different foams. The soundstage isn't as poor as I originally thought using thinner foams. I'm now using thicker heigi full foams with a cutout into donuts (like the orignal foam) and the staging is what I'd consider 'front row but in a large room' so it's close but has enough space around the head. Imaging is up to TOTL par, very nice stereo separation and panning from left right. Depth is good considering it's signature being more full mids-airy highs than deep bass and recessed mids.

It's a 'dry' signature in stock tuning. So more analytical and airy than musical and 'emotive/musical'. I personally prefer a slightly sweeter mids so I'll just EQ mine to that preference. If you aren't happy to EQ then it's nice to know what to expect.


----------



## seanc6441

palestofwhite said:


> Thank you! That's very assuring and you just helped me save some money...
> 
> I'll just keep my money and wait till I have enough for the absolute TOTL...


To me that's definitely the right choice if you see yourself getting a TOTL earbud in the long run, may aswell save now and get it sooner to enjoy


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> To me that's definitely the right choice if you see yourself getting a TOTL earbud in the long run, may aswell save now and get it sooner to enjoy



Stopping at the PK32 was the original plan and you just helped me stick to it. I'll just be content with what I have for now and be happy enjoying them...


----------



## gazzington

I think I may get the willsound mk1 and mk3 and then stick with those for a while. The mk2 is a bargain


----------



## capnjack

mbwilson111 said:


> How long did you burn them in?  Is there a recommended number of hours?


Just listen and enjoy !  They’ll only get better with use


----------



## mbwilson111

capnjack said:


> Just listen and enjoy !  They’ll only get better with use



Of course, but if something needs burn-in then I leave whatever I have them plugged into running in between listens... including overnight.


----------



## capnjack

mbwilson111 said:


> Of course, but if something needs burn-in then I leave whatever I have them plugged into running in between listens... including overnight.


Makes sense to me, just don’t forget to charge!  
How do you like them so far?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 5, 2018)

Perfect little adapter at a very resonable price. Thanks HungryPanda for the recommendation!

In peoples experience do adapters like these alter the SQ on highly revealing earbuds with high end cables? Or does it not matter once the final link in the chain is your cable.

I ask because Shozy obviously put a lot of thought into cable choice and how it will effect the final sound. Does this create a problem with using adapters?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jul 5, 2018)

capnjack said:


> Makes sense to me, just don’t forget to charge!
> How do you like them so far?



The Black Panther sounds great so far.  This is without foams.  Today my hands are not cooperating and I did not want to tear the foams...so if I want to put them on I will wait until my husband is home.  There are 4 pairs.  Two pairs seem thicker than the other two.  What are you using?

They actually seem pretty secure without foams.  Most buds are not... most slide a bit without them...in MY ears.   I think these, because they are so small, are just tucking in closer to the ear drum and staying in place.  I don't think they will fall out like my Monk Plus or anything with that shell sometimes does.

Hooked up to my desktop dac/amp with Foobar2000 playing Flac files from my PC.  No need to charge.  When I do burn in with a DAP I usually use my little Ruizu A50 because it gives over 20 hours of play between charges and only takes about an hour to charge. 

I was using some excellent iems for a few hours today so the fact that these sound "big" enough is a good sign.  Not sure what could or needs to get "better" with burn-in.  Maybe I am just easy to please 

Would be great to continue to wear these without foams because sometimes my ears itch from foams.  Also it will be easier to just pop them in and out while at my desk.  I might even watch some of the youtube videos that people post


----------



## capnjack

mbwilson111 said:


> The Black Panther sounds great so far.  This is without foams.  Today my hands are not cooperating and I did not want to tear the foams...so if I want to put them on I will wait until my husband is home.  There are 4 pairs.  Two pairs seem thicker than the other two.  What are you using?
> 
> They actually seem pretty secure without foams.  Most buds are not... most slide a bit without them...in MY ears.   I think these, because they are so small, are just tucking in closer to the ear drum and staying in place.  I don't think they will fall out like my Monk Plus or anything with that shell sometimes does.
> 
> ...


I use Monk thin foams on mine, but as you say they are a touch smaller than the Monk’s Shell so you may get away without them. I really like the A50 too it’s a great value pocketable player, with a 20hr battery! But I also now have the R3 which is stunning looking and (new toy syndrome) probably) sounds great!


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 5, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> The Black Panther sounds great so far.  This is without foams.  Today my hands are not cooperating and I did not want to tear the foams...so if I want to put them on I will wait until my husband is home.  There are 4 pairs.  Two pairs seem thicker than the other two.  What are you using?
> 
> They actually seem pretty secure without foams.  Most buds are not... most slide a bit without them...in MY ears.   I think these, because they are so small, are just tucking in closer to the ear drum and staying in place.  I don't think they will fall out like my Monk Plus or anything with that shell sometimes does.
> 
> ...


Ok





Enjoy


----------



## mbwilson111

capnjack said:


> I use Monk thin foams on mine, but as you say they are a touch smaller than the Monk’s Shell so you may get away without them. I really like the A50 too it’s a great value pocketable player, with a 20hr battery! But I also now have the R3 which is stunning looking and (new toy syndrome) probably) sounds great!



I would say the Black Panther  more than a touch smaller than a Monk.  They are tiny!  Do you think that there is a disadvantage soundwise to using them without foams?

I  have other daps but like you said the Ruizu is so pocketable...great even around the house when I am doing stuff.  

Overall,  I tend to use my Cayin N3 the most.. combination of smallish size, great features and sound.  

My Opus#1 and Hidizs AP200 are bigger but both sound great and I use them a lot also.  I don't use my rockboxed xDuoo X3 as much anymore... but it is built like a tank and will live forever.  The rockbox screen is so tiny (even though I picked the best skin that I could)  and I am due for new glasses 

My Hidizs AP60 MKII needs more attention.  Should be using it more. UI is a bit difficult to get used to though.  It is not very intuItive for me.  is small like the Ruizu and unlike the Ruizu it does gapless play.  

The other dap in my list is hopeless...clicks between tracks... the tiniest font that could possibly be made...no gapless play...no firmware updates ever.

I don't use bluetooth and do not stream (I don't even use a smartphone) so the Hiby daps have features that I don't need.  I have heard good things about your new toy though


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> I would say the Black Panther  more than a touch smaller than a Monk.  They are tiny!  Do you think that there is a disadvantage soundwise to using them without foams?
> 
> I  have other daps but like you said the Ruizu is so pocketable...great even around the house when I am doing stuff.
> 
> ...


Some buds sound decent foamless but most can lack some sub bass or full lower frequency without them, sound presentation also changes whether for the better or worse is up to the individual to decide.

I have no earbuds that sound better foamless than with some combination of super thin foam or thicker. Whether its in donut form, full or multi hole. Although I know many use the VE zen earbuds without foams.


----------



## Sito Lupion

the EBX has finally arrived
incredible sound ... but I have a problem
I can not get them to seal well in my ear and therefore I can only enjoy the subwoofer by holding them with my fingers ... the moment I stop tightening it is lost.
some trick to fix these in my ear? I really like its sound


----------



## seanc6441

Sito Lupion said:


> the EBX has finally arrived
> incredible sound ... but I have a problem
> I can not get them to seal well in my ear and therefore I can only enjoy the subwoofer by holding them with my fingers ... the moment I stop tightening it is lost.
> some trick to fix these in my ear? I really like its sound


what foams are you using? Try VE donut foams or hiegi full foams.

Also try wearing the cable looped over ear, might help keep them in place.


----------



## HungryPanda

I wear the EBX over ear, they sit fine like that


----------



## subwoof3r

Sito Lupion said:


> enjoy the subwoofer


I know... I know...


----------



## Sito Lupion

thanks for your answers, I have put double pad (white and black donuts on top) and it seems that it has improved, also the angle is crucial, one millimeter ruins the sound.


----------



## Sito Lupion

Can someone provide me with a link to silicone donuts? I want to try to see if the silicone is better


----------



## wskl

From Shozy's FB, they posted a photo of a new earbud, no other details yet.


----------



## toear

toear said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I did some searching and didn't find any answers so I'm hoping someone can help me out...
> 
> ...



Anyone? 

Thanks!


----------



## redkingjoe

I have decided to enjoy my blur idkwtf ltd edition today!

I really love the silver shell. With just one look, my wife said “ good stuff, beautiful “.


----------



## 40760

wskl said:


> From Shozy's FB, they posted a photo of a new earbud, no other details yet.



Docomo shells look good! Can't wait for reviews on them!


----------



## ShabtabQ

seanc6441 said:


> Perfect little adapter at a very resonable price. Thanks HungryPanda for the recommendation!
> 
> In peoples experience do adapters like these alter the SQ on highly revealing earbuds with high end cables? Or does it not matter once the final link in the chain is your cable.
> 
> I ask because Shozy obviously put a lot of thought into cable choice and how it will effect the final sound. Does this create a problem with using adapters?




Which adapter is that, share with me too...


----------



## waynes world

ShabtabQ said:


> Which adapter is that, share with me too...



https://m.de.aliexpress.com/item/32810551272.html


----------



## jogawag

ShabtabQ said:


> Which adapter is that, share with me too...





waynes world said:


> https://m.de.aliexpress.com/item/32810551272.html


That is a little expensive.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fiio-l26-3-5-2-5-fiio-2-5/32856283015.html
https://www.amazon.com/L26-Female-Balanced-Output-Adapter/dp/B01N10RBPW


----------



## subwoof3r

NiceHCK EBX ordered !
Jim (from NiceHCK) is a really great guy too! (had a discount for a promised review)
Can't wait to make a comparison between MK2.2 and PK32 !  (I'm also curious about the fit)


----------



## Narayan23

subwoof3r said:


> NiceHCK EBX ordered !
> Jim (from NiceHCK) is a really great guy too! (had a discount for a promised review)
> Can't wait to make a comparison between MK2.2 and PK32 !  (I'm also curious about the fit)



I´m going to be a bit of an ass..le here but in my view discounts for promised reviews diminish the credibility of both reviewer and seller. I appreciate your honesty and know for a fact that Jim is a great chap as probably you are too, I just hope the discount doesn´t affect your analysis of the buds.


----------



## subwoof3r

Narayan23 said:


> I´m going to be a bit of an ass..le here but in my view discounts for promised reviews diminish the credibility of both reviewer and seller. I appreciate your honesty and know for a fact that Jim is a great chap as probably you are too, I just hope the discount doesn´t affect your analysis of the buds.


No worries, absolutely not. I will be right and the discount won't affect at all my impressions!
I'm completely against false and commercial reviews, so I completely understand.


----------



## 40760

subwoof3r said:


> No worries, absolutely not. I will be right and the discount won't affect at all my impressions!
> I'm completely against false and commercial reviews, so I completely understand.



I see you have the Edifier H180... Do you have a review on that as well?

I have a P180 incoming that I'll be using for mobile gaming...


----------



## mbwilson111

wskl said:


> From Shozy's FB, they posted a photo of a new earbud, no other details yet.





palestofwhite said:


> Docomo shells look good! Can't wait for reviews on them!



Same shell as used on my Blur Black Panther.  Extremely comfortable... most comfortable so far.  I have not yet tried it with foams though.  Sounding great without them.  

Was Docomo an old earbud or does it still exist?  I am unfamiliar with it and its history.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

mbwilson111 said:


> Same shell as used on my Blur Black Panther.  Extremely comfortable... most comfortable so far.  I have not yet tried it with foams though.  Sounding great without them.
> 
> Was Docomo an old earbud or does it still exist?  I am unfamiliar with it and its history.


The Black Panthers ARE Docomos... just nicely modified by Wong who replaces the plug and cable and then retunes the sound.


----------



## RobinFood

mbwilson111 said:


> Same shell as used on my Blur Black Panther.  Extremely comfortable... most comfortable so far.  I have not yet tried it with foams though.  Sounding great without them.
> 
> Was Docomo an old earbud or does it still exist?  I am unfamiliar with it and its history.



AFAIK Docomo is a cell phone service provider in Japan, like AT&T. They have their own line of cheap phones, so I am guessing they bundled the bud with one of their phones, since they don't usually do audio.


----------



## 40760 (Jul 6, 2018)

I think the Docomo earbuds came with the Docomo phones... Or maybe they're for Docomo customers...


----------



## RobinFood

Looking through Docomo's official website, the shell on these looks pretty close to the Black Panther shell...

https://www.mydocomo.com/onlineshop/options/detail.html?item_code=AAP59140&_=1530877829559


----------



## subwoof3r

palestofwhite said:


> I see you have the Edifier H180... Do you have a review on that as well?
> 
> I have a P180 incoming that I'll be using for mobile gaming...


H180 is good but nothing extraordinary (to my ears), but so many months I didn't had a listen with them again. Anyway compared to our Willsounds it's another world. I rated H180 to be right after my previously sold Blox BE3 rev1. They were pretty good many months ago but today there is much better alternatives (even between 5-15$)


----------



## dheepak10 (Jul 6, 2018)

Published my review of this wonderful bud - HiFi Boy Dream:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/hifi-boy-dream.22866/reviews#review-20530


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jul 6, 2018)

RobinFood said:


> Looking through Docomo's official website, the shell on these looks pretty close to the Black Panther shell...
> 
> https://www.mydocomo.com/onlineshop/options/detail.html?item_code=AAP59140&_=1530877829559



Seems a little different.  Here is a photo showing the Docomo shells used by my Black Panther.


----------



## Sito Lupion

I can not find silicone donuts, does anyone know and can you provide a link please?


----------



## jogawag (Jul 7, 2018)

Sito Lupion said:


> I can not find silicone donuts, does anyone know and can you provide a link please?








Are they something like the above?
If so, please search shops dealing with them in your country with the following keywords.
"SENNHEISER 558452"
"SENNHEISER 563605"


----------



## Sito Lupion

jogawag said:


> Is it something like the above?
> If so, please search shops dealing with them in your country with the following keywords.
> "SENNHEISER 558452"
> "SENNHEISER 563605"



Thanks my friend, that's exactly what I'm looking for..


----------



## Sito Lupion

[QUOTE = "subwoof3r, post: 14343764, miembro: 45995"] NiceHCK EBX pedido!
Jim (de NiceHCK) también es un gran tipo. (tenía un descuento por una revisión prometida)
No puedo esperar para hacer una comparación entre MK2.2 y PK32! (También tengo curiosidad acerca del ajuste) [/ QUOTE]

waiting for your impressions, especially in relation to fit and comfort.


----------



## ShabtabQ

waynes world said:


> https://m.de.aliexpress.com/item/32810551272.html


Ohhh thank you I'm getting it here in India from official fiio's website for half the price tho it is out ot stock right now, was wondering how is the Balanced MMCX cable from fiio.


----------



## ShabtabQ

mbwilson111 said:


> Seems a little different.  Here is a photo showing the Docomo shells used by my Black Panther.


How does your Black Panther compare to Willsounds Mk2?


----------



## mbwilson111

ShabtabQ said:


> How does your Black Panther compare to Willsounds Mk2?



I do not have a Willsound MK2.  What I do have is in my list.


----------



## hung031086 (Jul 7, 2018)

Im looking for a earbud for under $200 with great bass, not harsh or sibilant treble, wide soundstage, maybe on the warmth side and not hard to drive. Any recommendations?
Please don't recommend shozy bk, i owned it before.


----------



## ShabtabQ

mbwilson111 said:


> I do not have a Willsound MK2.  What I do have is in my list.


Then maybe compare it with the Mk1 rev 2, NiceHCK DIY PK2. Pweeesshhh...


----------



## RuFrost

hung031086 said:


> Im looking for a earbud for under $200 with great bass, not harsh or sibilant treble, wide soundstage, maybe on the warmth side and not hard to drive. Any recommendations?
> Please don't recommend shozy bk, i owned it before.


ABnormal Diomnes lv2 or lv1 are ideal for you description. BS1 official would work as well, but they require some tips changing and experimenting to fit it to the own taste.


----------



## seanc6441

Sito Lupion said:


> Thanks my friend, that's exactly what I'm looking for..


There’s als


RuFrost said:


> ABnormal Diomnes lv2 or lv1 are ideal for you description. BS1 official would work as well, but they require some tips changing and experimenting to fit it to the own taste.


Not sure BS1 has the bass required, with a good fit it's around same level as shozy bk maybe with a touch more mid bass. Not basshead levels of bass for me anyway, but maybe you feel it has more deep bass than the BK?


----------



## jogawag (Jul 7, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Sito Lupion said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks my friend, that's exactly what I'm looking for..
> ...



What does "There's als" mean?
@Sito Lupion is writing to me ...


----------



## HungryPanda

I think it's " There's also........" but the sentence was not finished


----------



## redkingjoe

These earbuds shells seem really solid and strong. 

Does anyone try or know the whatAbout of these?

Sound and price?


----------



## Sito Lupion

HungryPanda said:


> I think it's " There's also........" but the sentence was not finished



surely..

After 2 days with the EBX I have to say that they are incredible, you just have to make sure of a good placement. The capsules are something big for me and at first they caused me annoyance, but now I'm more accustomed.
The sound is clear and detailed, but never with silibancias, and the bass have a great punch and definition. The voices sound great, with great detail, especially the female ones.

I'm using red (denser) pads and black donuts for a better grip. The cable with guide also helps to keep them firm.


----------



## rkw (Jul 8, 2018)

redkingjoe said:


> These earbuds shells seem really solid and strong.
> Does anyone try or know the whatAbout of these?
> Sound and price?


Lamia Manee has a Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/luziferMuchjurat/
Viewing the page in Google Translate, some posts say the shells are made of silver, gold, and alloys. There is a post that mentions 5990 baht, which is about US$180.


----------



## 40760

@US$180 might be for the other alloys instead of precious metals...

Or maybe just plated gold or silver...


----------



## seanc6441

jogawag said:


> What does "There's als" mean?
> @Sito Lupion is writing to me ...


Accidentally sent that, reply box saves last typed message and I must not have cleared it when replying to RUfrost.


----------



## capnjack

redkingjoe said:


> These earbuds shells seem really solid and strong.
> 
> Does anyone try or know the whatAbout of these?
> 
> Sound and price?


Price is high, I believe they’re actually gold


----------



## RuFrost

seanc6441 said:


> There’s als
> 
> Not sure BS1 has the bass required, with a good fit it's around same level as shozy bk maybe with a touch more mid bass. Not basshead levels of bass for me anyway, but maybe you feel it has more deep bass than the BK?


BK in comparison with bs1 has 2D soundstage. Everything is heard more precise, but not as real and holographic as in BS1. I think the quality of the bass is the most qualitative and expensive from what I have heard. Right foams make it sound really great. Metallic shell is a real thing - the sound resonates from it and everything sound so good...


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 8, 2018)

RuFrost said:


> BK in comparison with bs1 has 2D soundstage. Everything is heard more precise, but not as real and holographic as in BS1. I think the quality of the bass is the most qualitative and expensive from what I have heard. Right foams make it sound really great. Metallic shell is a real thing - the sound resonates from it and everything sound so good...


The BS1 does have more depth I agree, it's not huge but the imaging is precise and holographic. Bk has better stereo separation of left to right panning and accurate imaging but lacks some depth.

BS1 has a lovely presentation in the mid bass but sub bass could be bumped up slightly. Then the need for a perfect seal wouldn't be as important then.

If the BS1 driver could be put in metal PK shell with lighter cable I'd be very happy to try that earbud


----------



## RobinFood

What happened to the BS1 anyways? it is not on Penon's website anymore...
Do any earbuds have unusual drivers? I know the rose buds have dual dynamic drivers, and the Dunu Alphas use dual hybrid drivers with a dynamic driver and a balanced armature, but is that it? I wonder if there is a way to bring in more balanced or planars to earbuds.


----------



## Esclink

I'm looking for earbuds for around $100 with balanced sound.


----------



## jogawag (Jul 8, 2018)

RobinFood said:


> What happened to the BS1 anyways? it is not on Penon's website anymore...


It's been here from before.
https://penon-official.com/product/bs1-official-version/


----------



## RobinFood

jogawag said:


> It's been here from before.
> https://penon-official.com/product/bs1-official-version/



Thanks for the link. Do they have a website just for the BS1 and one for other stuff they sell?


----------



## 40760

RobinFood said:


> Thanks for the link. Do they have a website just for the BS1 and one for other stuff they sell?



That site is dedicated for the BS1 and their own line of cables.

They also have another site that offers more than their AE store...


----------



## 40760

I don't even think I'm anywhere near the 50 hour mark yet... the PK32 is definitely getting better with time...

Playing Miles Davis with them is such a pleasure...


----------



## DAndrew

redkingjoe said:


> These earbuds shells seem really solid and strong.
> 
> Does anyone try or know the whatAbout of these?
> 
> Sound and price?



Price starts at 270$ and goes up to 1500$ , without shipping lol.
Pretty pricey pair of earbuds that are more of a fashion statement...also the shells are just metal pk shells


----------



## DAndrew

rkw said:


> Lamia Manee has a Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/luziferMuchjurat/
> Viewing the page in Google Translate, some posts say the shells are made of silver, gold, and alloys. There is a post that mentions 5990 baht, which is about US$180.



He doesnt make alloys anymore apparently , only silver, gold and rose gold, and the price is pretty high , cheapest is silver at around 270$


----------



## subwoof3r

palestofwhite said:


> Playing Miles Davis with them is such a pleasure...


Everything is such a pleasure with PK32


----------



## rkw

DAndrew said:


> He doesnt make alloys anymore apparently , only silver, gold and rose gold, and the price is pretty high , cheapest is silver at around 270$


He is creating earbuds as jewelry, literally something that might be in a display case at a jewelry store. It is a clever idea and fills a void in the marketplace. The head-fi crowd is not his target audience but the thought of Yuin shells in metal is very intriguing.


----------



## dheepak10 (Jul 9, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> Everything is such a pleasure with PK32


But the sound what you experience is highly foam dependent . I use them with slightly less denser donut foams. That said, the PK32 has a wider soundstage compared to the MK series.



palestofwhite said:


> I don't even think I'm anywhere near the 50 hour mark yet... the PK32 is definitely getting better with time...
> 
> Playing Miles Davis with them is such a pleasure...



Just crossed 120 hours on them and the review is looming around - both PK32 and MK3


----------



## 40760

PK32 is currently my favourite for it's versatility...


----------



## Lionheart24

palestofwhite said:


> PK32 is currently my favourite for it's versatility...



So the MK3 is more specialized (rock, metal) and the PK32 is more of an all-rounder?


----------



## daid1

but PK32 is out of stock and will be never produced again


----------



## chinmie

daid1 said:


> but PK32 is out of stock and will be never produced again



says who?i don't think it is discontinued, but willy is researching more to tweak the PK32 for the better


----------



## daid1

chinmie said:


> says who?i don't think it is discontinued, but willy is researching more to tweak the PK32 for the better



Rholupat and Willy Lukito


----------



## chinmie

speaking of researching, i was discussing with willy to make a short balanced MK3 for my ES100, and he sent me the newest batch of MK1, MK2, MK3, and also the 300ohm. I used to have the 300ohm, but there's something about them that was off for me, some of them for the lack of bass with thin foams, but too warm mids and veiled treble with thicker foams...so it's a bit of a conundrum there..to say it bluntly, the 300ohm was my least favorite Willsound.
so when i opened the package, i was reluctant and decided to listen to it the last; MK1,MK2, MK3, briliant as always.. but then i put on the 300: and suddenly it's up there with the PK32 as my most favorite Willsound.
good amount of bass even with thin foams, clear mids and treble, with overall balanced presentation, deeper soundstage than the PK32 (although the PK32 is still the willsound king of stereo width), and overall cleaner sound than the MKs. definitely recommending this version of 300ohm. an auto buy for me


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 9, 2018)

chinmie said:


> says who?i don't think it is discontinued, but willy is researching more to tweak the PK32 for the better





daid1 said:


> Rholupat and Willy Lukito


Willy is sending me the first of a new batch of pk32, I very much doubt it's discounted merely being updated. If it is indeed maybe it's because the name will be updated like pk32 rev.2?

Don't know what to expect but I assume it's a slight tuning change. Looking forward to hearing it.

It was sent out to me a few days ago so I'm awaiting it's arrival. I'll post pics once I receive it as soon as I get home as I'm currently away for a few days.


----------



## daid1

seanc6441 said:


> Willy is sending me the first of a new batch of pk32, I very much doubt it's discounted merely being updated.
> 
> Don't know what to expect but I assume it's a slight tuning change. Looking forward to hearing it.
> 
> It was sent out to me a few days ago so I'm awaiting it's arrival. I'll post pics once I receive it as soon as I get home as I'm currently away for a few days.



Yep he told me that they are discontinued because they need improvement, but I didn't think that he will be so quickly to improve the PK32. So now I'm curious to hear the difference between old and new


----------



## seanc6441

daid1 said:


> Yep he told me that they are discontinued because they need improvement, but I didn't think that he will be so quickly to improve the PK32. So now I'm curious to hear the difference between old and new


My old one had a bass issue so I cannot reliably compare despite having both on hand soon. 

On the plus side I can compare to my shozy bk!


----------



## chinmie

daid1 said:


> Yep he told me that they are discontinued because they need improvement, but I didn't think that he will be so quickly to improve the PK32. So now I'm curious to hear the difference between old and new



wait a couple of days, willy is lending me the new PK32. from what he said it's just a small refinement, but we'll see when it arrives


----------



## 40760 (Jul 9, 2018)

Remember I told you guys my replacement had a nicer cable than before? Perhaps that's the refinement.

I absolutely love this thicker cable... it's so soft and supple...

Edit: Sadly, still no working camera...


----------



## seanc6441

palestofwhite said:


> Remember I told you guys my replacement had a nicer cable than before? Perhaps that's the refinement.
> 
> I absolutely love this thicker cable... it's so soft and supple...
> 
> Edit: Sadly, still no working camera...


We're beginning to believe it's a figment of your imagination 

I'll take a picture of both pk32's once I get them and you can tell me if I have the same updated cable as yours.


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> We're beginning to believe it's a figment of your imagination
> 
> I'll take a picture of both pk32's once I get them and you can tell me if I have the same updated cable as yours.



I’m getting my phone fixed tomorrow... wish me luck


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> speaking of researching, i was discussing with willy to make a short balanced MK3 for my ES100, and he sent me the newest batch of MK1, MK2, MK3, and also the 300ohm. I used to have the 300ohm, but there's something about them that was off for me, some of them for the lack of bass with thin foams, but too warm mids and veiled treble with thicker foams...so it's a bit of a conundrum there..to say it bluntly, the 300ohm was my least favorite Willsound.
> so when i opened the package, i was reluctant and decided to listen to it the last; MK1,MK2, MK3, briliant as always.. but then i put on the 300: and suddenly it's up there with the PK32 as my most favorite Willsound.
> good amount of bass even with thin foams, clear mids and treble, with overall balanced presentation, deeper soundstage than the PK32 (although the PK32 is still the willsound king of stereo width), and overall cleaner sound than the MKs. definitely recommending this version of 300ohm. an auto buy for me



Very interesting - thanks. Assuming I also get the PK32 or maybe the 300 one of these days, I will probably also opt for the balanced cable version.

Btw, the ES100 now supports LDAC


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Very interesting - thanks. Assuming I also get the PK32 or maybe the 300 one of these days, I will probably also opt for the balanced cable version.
> 
> Btw, the ES100 now supports LDAC



Hah! I already know! (well, from your post on the ES100 thread ￼￼) 
now streaming bluetooth at 24bit/96khz


----------



## 40760 (Jul 10, 2018)

For those asking about the updated PK32 cables:







Latest PK32 with updated cable...


----------



## 40760 (Jul 10, 2018)

Edit: Closed


----------



## 40760 (Jul 11, 2018)

Shozy XB just got released at Penon Audio on AE...


----------



## jogawag (Jul 10, 2018)

palestofwhite said:


> Shozy XB just got released at Penon Audio on AE...
> 
> EDIT: Order placed...


This Shell is the same as that of the attached earphone of docomo D903i (2006 Mitsubishi product).
This Shell has also been adopted by Blur Black Panther.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Hello, Have anyone listen to the BGVP DX3s? Any impression ?

Thanks


----------



## RobinFood

MidNighTempest said:


> Hello, Have anyone listen to the BGVP DX3s? Any impression ?
> 
> Thanks



I listened to them in the store for a few minutes. I found them to be unimpressive. They seem to do everything well, but nothing great. MMCX and Hi-res caught my eye, but the sound was ordinary.


----------



## subwoof3r (Jul 10, 2018)

chinmie said:


> wait a couple of days, willy is lending me the new PK32. from what he said it's just a small refinement, but we'll see when it arrives


I guess this "small refinement" changement is probably due to the new cable?

Too bad we got finally already a rev2 of PK32, because as a previous source Willy said there won't be anymore rev2 for each of its products 
I feel like my new PK32 is already "has-been".


----------



## 40760 (Jul 10, 2018)

The new batch of PK32 has white foam under the shell vents while mine is actually black.

Now we’re currently not sure which was the refinement as Willy does mix and match parts as he deems fit. My MK1 Rev.2 comes with the original PK32 cables and not red, but he claims they should sound the same.


----------



## 40760

Edit: Double Post


----------



## chinmie

subwoof3r said:


> I guess this "small refinement" changement is probably due to the new cable?
> 
> Too bad we got finally already a rev2 of PK32, because as a previous source Willy said there won't be anymore rev2 for each of its products
> I feel like my new PK32 is already "has-been".



As with all tweaks, you might like it, or you might not. He is using the same exact drivers for each of his line of products from the beginning, and from what i hear personally, each changes is small nudges that can easily followed by the previous iterations with EQs. For instance, i prefer my MK2 than the new revs, but i prefer the newer MK1 than the first ones. The only revision that is significant for me is the new 300ohms. 

Other revisions might be about production process.

I speculate he is refining the PK32 so it doesn't have to go through too long of a burning time, also to fix the problem about bass on several units so we can have a more consistent PK32 experience.

But that is just speculations, I'll get back on it once i really hear it


----------



## Carrow

I noticed that there are no longer Zen Omega or Monk Espresso available on the Venture Electronics site - do they do that thing where they won't show a product on site if there's none in stock? Just in case I ordered an Espresso pair (single-ended of course) off Amazon. Been wanting one for a while as it is... will be here Thursday! Thank you based priority delivery!


----------



## 40760

I think the Espresso has been discontinued recently after the SPC restock... Zen Omega still available at their AE store...


----------



## Carrow

palestofwhite said:


> I think the Espresso has been discontinued recently after the SPC restock... Zen Omega still available at their AE store...



Whoops, I meant Monk Omega! Which I definitely don't see on the AE store by the way. Just as well I copped the Espresso then, yikes. (Zen Omega is a little bit out of my price range rn!)


----------



## 40760

Carrow said:


> Whoops, I meant Monk Omega! Which I definitely don't see on the AE store by the way. Just as well I copped the Espresso then, yikes. (Zen Omega is a little bit out of my price range rn!)



Oh yes Monk Plus Omega also discontinued along with the Espresso...


----------



## Carrow

palestofwhite said:


> Oh yes Monk Plus Omega also discontinued along with the Espresso...



In that case, UK/EU-based earbud fans should note there are 10 single-ended Espresso pairs left here if you still want one. Plenty of balanced plug ones too it seems


----------



## snip3r77

palestofwhite said:


> The new batch of PK32 has white foam under the shell vents while mine is actually black.
> 
> Now we’re currently not sure which was the refinement as Willy does mix and match parts as he deems fit. My MK1 Rev.2 comes with the original PK32 cables and not red, but he claims they should sound the same.


He should say it’s a rev 2 because of changed cable and spec


----------



## dheepak10 (Jul 10, 2018)

WillSound MK3 review is live here:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/willsound-mk3.23133/reviews#review-20548


----------



## chinmie

snip3r77 said:


> He should say it’s a rev 2 because of changed cable and spec



As long as it is only cosmetics, i don't think he should say it's rev 2. People even sometimes request/ customised certain cables or jacks from willy


----------



## WoodyLuvr

chinmie said:


> As long as it is only cosmetics, i don't think he should say it's rev 2. People even sometimes request/ customised certain cables or jacks from willy


Concur.


----------



## redkingjoe

OURART Ti7 uses 14.2mm titanium crystal diaphragm, cnc metal shell. Seems to be built with high quality materials! It’s only around us$60~70

Anyone has any experience with it?


----------



## HungryPanda

I have the OurArt Ti7 and they are very well built. I love the sound of these earbuds.


----------



## redkingjoe

chinmie said:


> As with all tweaks, you might like it, or you might not. He is using the same exact drivers for each of his line of products from the beginning, and from what i hear personally, each changes is small nudges that can easily followed by the previous iterations with EQs. For instance, i prefer my MK2 than the new revs, but i prefer the newer MK1 than the first ones. The only revision that is significant for me is the new 300ohms.
> 
> Other revisions might be about production process.
> 
> ...


Did you tell willi to get an mmcx version out?

Metal PK shell?

Exotic diaphragm: diamond amorphous, bio-cell, beryllium, dual speakers?


----------



## redkingjoe

HungryPanda said:


> I have the OurArt Ti7 and they are very well built. I love the sound of these earbuds.



Thanks for your kindness. It’s very very good price with the materials used that I’m impressed.

I haven’t ordered coz I don’t know the SQ.

How does it compare to the EBX? BK?


----------



## RobinFood

Out of curiosity, what are the odds of the inside of your earbud accumulating dust and foam gunk from thin foams disintegrating on them?
How do you go about cleaning the inside? Do you just suck on them as hard as possible from time to time?


----------



## WillSound

RobinFood said:


> Out of curiosity, what are the odds of the inside of your earbud accumulating dust and foam gunk from thin foams disintegrating on them?
> How do you go about cleaning the inside? Do you just suck on them as hard as possible from time to time?


just put upside down then play some fast beat music, dust will out automatically.


----------



## RobinFood

WillSound said:


> just put upside down then play some fast beat music, dust will out automatically.



What are your top cleaning tracks?


----------



## WillSound

RobinFood said:


> What are your top cleaning tracks?


i used XLO burn file


----------



## chinmie

redkingjoe said:


> Did you tell willi to get an mmcx version out?
> 
> Metal PK shell?
> 
> Exotic diaphragm: diamond amorphous, bio-cell, beryllium, dual speakers?



Not yet, but i did mention the PK32 would be great with metal shell like liebesleid. As far as exotic diaphragm, that would be a subject of entirely new line of product. I hope he does though, but now i think he is focusing on the existing ones


----------



## snip3r77

WillSound said:


> i used XLO burn file


Need to make a file with 0hz to 20khz Koop at 0.5s per wave


----------



## Carrow

redkingjoe said:


> Thanks for your kindness. It’s very very good price with the materials used that I’m impressed.
> 
> I haven’t ordered coz I don’t know the SQ.
> 
> How does it compare to the EBX? BK?



I wouldn't know about the EBX, and my memories of the BK aren't especially clear, but having owned the TI7 for a while I would advise you to approach with caution if you're particularly treble sensitive, or at least roll a few different types of foams to dampen it because they can be fatiguing sometimes. To my ears they come across as analytical, quite good on detail retrieval and soundstage. I've used them with VE full foams since I got them, maybe I should switch the donuts to tame the treble somewhat? The fit is a bit awkward so make sure you get it worked out before any serious listening. MMCX cable is pretty sturdy, and if anything happens to it you can just pop the buds off and fit a different cable


----------



## HungryPanda

I find the OurArt Ti7 to be more neutral and airy than the EBX. I bought the Ourart balanced cable and prefer that


----------



## chaiyuta

Sneak Peek for Prakarn Niranam earbuds package~


----------



## redkingjoe

Carrow said:


> I wouldn't know about the EBX, and my memories of the BK aren't especially clear, but having owned the TI7 for a while I would advise you to approach with caution if you're particularly treble sensitive, or at least roll a few different types of foams to dampen it because they can be fatiguing sometimes. To my ears they come across as analytical, quite good on detail retrieval and soundstage. I've used them with VE full foams since I got them, maybe I should switch the donuts to tame the treble somewhat? The fit is a bit awkward so make sure you get it worked out before any serious listening. MMCX cable is pretty sturdy, and if anything happens to it you can just pop the buds off and fit a different cable



Thanks for your kind feedback on these earbuds. I would pay more attention to the treble. It might be due to the silver foil cable and titanium diaphragm!  Besides the foams I probably will switch to a warmer cable with the mmcx .


----------



## redkingjoe

HungryPanda said:


> I find the OurArt Ti7 to be more neutral and airy than the EBX. I bought the Ourart balanced cable and prefer that



EBX is 99 Ourart is 59. It seems ourart is a very good deal!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

chaiyuta said:


> Sneak Peek for Prakarn Niranam earbuds package~


Sawatdeekrub nong chay, is this packaging for the 185 Ohm model you have shared pictures of before in this thread or a newer model being released?


----------



## redkingjoe

With $59, Ourart Ti7 gives a lot of quality to the product. I really love the titanium diaphragm of which some high end loudspeakers use as tweeter.


----------



## chaiyuta

WoodyLuvr said:


> Sawatdeekrub nong chay, is this packaging for the 185 Ohm model you have shared pictures of before in this thread or a newer model being released?


It seems they don't decide yet whether it is for the 185Ohm model, whole of all models, or specifically for international buyers.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

chaiyuta said:


> It seems they don't decide yet whether it is for the 185Ohm model, whole of all models, or specifically for international buyers.


Understood. Thank you for the update and keeping us informed.  Looking forward to seeing what comes!   Respects


----------



## mochill

New shozy XB earbuds on penon audio


----------



## 40760 (Jul 11, 2018)

mochill said:


> New shozy XB earbuds on penon audio



I'm eagerly waiting...


----------



## Guggga

palestofwhite said:


> I'm eagerly waiting...


Sweet! Look forward to your impressions!


----------



## redkingjoe (Jul 11, 2018)

The EBX sounds great right out of box. I hope sound will keep improving with burning-in, but who knows. I love the sound, the beautiful cable, the sturdy shell with super fast shipping. Clearly, My $99 is well spent.

@HungryPanda : thanks for your recommendation! It seems I should also get the Ourart Ti7


----------



## 40760

redkingjoe said:


> The EBX sounds great right out of box. I hope sound will keep improving with burning-in, but who knows. I love the sound, the beautiful cable, the sturdy shell with super fast shipping. Clearly, My $99 is well spent.



Very beautiful!


----------



## subwoof3r

redkingjoe said:


> The EBX sounds great right out of box. I hope sound will keep improving with burning-in, but who knows. I love the sound, the beautiful cable, the sturdy shell with super fast shipping. Clearly, My $99 is well spent.
> 
> @HungryPanda : thanks for your recommendation! It seems I should also get the Ourart Ti7


Omg, can't wait to receive this beast ^^
I also ordered the same color as yours 

Is the fit okay for you ? (of yes: which foams) ? or did you have to put cable around ears like some here ?


----------



## HungryPanda

I wear my EBX over ear. I do with most metal earbuds


----------



## CharlesRievone

redkingjoe said:


> OURART Ti7 uses 14.2mm titanium crystal diaphragm, cnc metal shell. Seems to be built with high quality materials! It’s only around us$60~70
> Anyone has any experience with it?


I didn't give them enough ear-time when I acquired them last year, as I sent my unit for a "local review tour" in my country along with other earbuds.
They had an "ok" sound when I listened to them initially, then sent them for the tour after a few days.

Now that I had them, I'd say I missed out on how good they actually are. They're now my everyday commute buds since they're built like a tank.
The stock cables also don't feel or look cheap. They have a neutral-airy sound signature, focused on upper-mids. Not for bassheads but not bass-light at all.

Now for the cons:
- Tricky fit. So I use thick foams over rubber rings for a better seal and comfort. The metal housing can be quite uncomfortable for long sessions. I've also removed the earguides on the stock cables.
- Speaking of the stock cables, they don't have a good Left-Right indicator, so you'll have to use different colored foams as a workaround. This is a con for me since I would have liked to use the thick black Hiegi foams on both side to match the elegant-minimalistic look of the buds.

Overall, I'm happy with them and I can say the pros outweigh the cons, though I can understand that they may not be for everyone's liking.


----------



## menuki

RobinFood said:


> Do you just suck on them as hard as possible from time to time?



That's what she said.


----------



## waynes world (Jul 11, 2018)

dheepak10 said:


> WillSound MK3 review is live here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/willsound-mk3.23133/reviews#review-20548



Interesting and useful review as usual!

This caught my attention because I love Decks Dark (and it reminds me of Ozark lol):



> What is just above average though is the sound stage width on offer – quite similar to the MK2. A little bit more width on offer would have made these one of my favorite buds. This is quite noticeable on tracks like *Decks Dark* by_ Radiohead_; while the width is sufficient to make the sounds seemingly originate from outside the perimeter of your skull on this track, at the 3:30 mark when the bass guitar plays on the left and bass note of the piano in the center, there is just enough space to differentiate the two instruments, while on earbuds like the HiFi Boy Dream, the amount of space between these two instruments is quite vast. Honestly, I am being quite demanding here – on most budget buds, you can’t even differentiate that there are two instruments in play, while on the MK3 I’m complaining that I need some more space between them J. Well, that in itself should say lots about what the WillSound range of buds have to offer at around $30.



I listened at the 3:30 mark, and started with the PT15's. I love those beasts, but it was hard to differentiate the bass from the piano. Next up, the MK2 r2's. Yup, differentiation! Next up was the Svara L's. Houston we have a problem... the bass is playing out the right side! Yup - left/right cable hooked up incorrectly lol. Once Houston had fixed that problem, even more differentiation!

Good little test!


----------



## fairx

100 hours or so on my V2 inntakhifi. This is by far the most linear end to end goodness low impedance (32 ohm) earbud I own and my first pick if used directly with smartphone output.

Great sound, ample bass and clean sounding. It's hard to find fault when it's only USD9

If I have to compare, it sound eerily similar to Sennheiser momentum 2 on ear headphones (30 times more expensive) which is better because i  can use v2 while laying around in bed. Of course momentum 2 have far cleaner highs albeit a little soft for my taste. But everything else are similar in sound characteristics it's uncanny.


----------



## dheepak10 (Jul 11, 2018)

waynes world said:


> Interesting and useful review as usual!
> 
> This caught my attention because I love Decks Dark (and it reminds me of Ozark lol):
> 
> Good little test!



Thank you!

Ozark it is! That's where I got this track from .

The wider the soundstage in offer, the bigger the differentiation between the two notes.


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> Interesting and useful review as usual!
> 
> This caught my attention because I love Decks Dark (and it reminds me of Ozark lol):
> 
> ...


The fade from decks dark into desert island disk is what I live for LMAO

Love me some smooth transitions.


----------



## redkingjoe

"subwoof3r, post: 14353312, member: 45995"]Omg, can't wait to receive this beast ^^
I also ordered the same color as yours 

Is the fit okay for you ? (of yes: which foams) ? or did you have to put cable around ears like some here ?[/QUOTE]
 

I ware it the usual way! It’s okay with me so far. But I only use it inside. 

I use the normal foams provided.


----------



## redkingjoe

CharlesRievone said:


> I didn't give them enough ear-time when I acquired them last year, as I sent my unit for a "local review tour" in my country along with other earbuds.
> They had an "ok" sound when I listened to them initially, then sent them for the tour after a few days.
> 
> Now that I had them, I'd say I missed out on how good they actually are. They're now my everyday commute buds since they're built like a tank.
> ...



Thanks for your kind feedback!

It seems I really need to order it as soon as possible! 

Metal housing is a real challenge to wear for long session! I’m trying to get use to it!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Regarding foams... do any of you gently hand wash your foams (to soften them up and remove any manufacturing oils) before using?


----------



## chinmie

redkingjoe said:


> "subwoof3r, post: 14353312, member: 45995"]Omg, can't wait to receive this beast ^^
> I also ordered the same color as yours
> 
> Is the fit okay for you ? (of yes: which foams) ? or did you have to put cable around ears like some here ?




I ware it the usual way! It’s okay with me so far. But I only use it inside.

I use the normal foams provided.[/QUOTE]

If you want to wear them down like that, you might like to swap the left and right mmcx to earbuds, see if it would feel more comfortable. But yeah, i also sometimes wear my svara L like that in your picture


----------



## DAndrew

WoodyLuvr said:


> Regarding foams... do any of you gently hand wash your foams (to soften them up and remove any manufacturing oils) before using?



I have tried that but I also washed out the color from them lol


----------



## subwoof3r

DAndrew said:


> I have tried that but I also washed out the color from them lol


Each time I try to wash my foams very carefully, the extrem thin ones are so fragile that I very often break them, unfortunately.
I remarked that sometimes depending from liquid used, foams may hook and stay better in place so you don't have to re-place correctly foams into the shell so often


----------



## DAndrew

subwoof3r said:


> Each time I try to wash my foams very carefully, the extrem thin ones are so fragile that I very often break them, unfortunately.
> I remarked that sometimes depending from liquid used, foams may hook and stay better in place so you don't have to re-place correctly foams into the shell so often



My solution to that was to buy huge amounts of foam, i have 400 pairs of thin foams and a couple hundred donuts


----------



## RobinFood

WoodyLuvr said:


> Regarding foams... do any of you gently hand wash your foams (to soften them up and remove any manufacturing oils) before using?



I give them the good ole peroxide bath, but mostly when they are getting old and stop fluffing/feel damp. 
I do that with most things I put in my ear though, it just melts away ear wax, and it's really cool to see it bubble like crazy when I put in something really gunky.
It revives comply foam tips too if you're into that...


----------



## RobinFood

menuki said:


> That's what she said.



OUCH!!! That post gave me blue balls!


----------



## dheepak10 (Jul 12, 2018)

WillSound PK32 - What does it offer?
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/willsound-pk32.23134/reviews#review-20564




PS: Tracks used for other WillSound earbud reviews are retained to give a comparison.


----------



## mochill

I think the shozy xB has extra bass


----------



## Xyst

Are the Monk Lite's (40ohm) good enough for direct smartphone output? I'm looking for something with a mic and 3 button android controls, but I read somewhere they may be a little thin sounding.


----------



## redkingjoe

mochill said:


> I think the shozy xB has extra bass


Have you tried it yet?


----------



## RuFrost (Jul 12, 2018)

Can somebody\owners comment on Svara Pro, toneking to400s and Fengru hyck100? Really interested in those. I felt in love with bs1 official earbuds. So now, I do not really prefer emx500 or yuin shells. I'm looking for something similar with bs1 construction - metal shell and sort of complex insides of it. I usually find those with ability of exchanging cable.


----------



## fairx (Jul 12, 2018)

Today I asked my friend for some input and he compared these two. Momentum 2.0 vs Inntakhifi V2 (blue). It's not really fair to compare earbud and headphones but I really wanted to know if I'm imagining  things or not.

The verdict are, "of course momentum 2.0 have bigger bass and slam, reach further below and cleaner overall. But yes they sound almost same, in technicalities and end to end linearity, though momentum 2.0 are more V shaped than V2"

We all hear things differently, but at least I'm not imagining things. Pheww..

OK. Time to order more inntakhifi earbud then.. They apparently have new version of 32 ohm.


----------



## mochill

redkingjoe said:


> Have you tried it yet?


Nope


----------



## HungryPanda

Brothers in arms


----------



## neuromancer

And the winner is?


----------



## HungryPanda

Toneking TO400s


----------



## neuromancer

HungryPanda said:


> Toneking TO400s


Would you say the Toneking 400 trumps the BS1 Official as well as the EBX?  How's the low end comparitively?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Received my Blur 美魔女 <<Mimajyo>> "Beautiful Witch" 300 Ohm earbuds from Wong Kuan Wae the day before yesterday. Extremely pleased; honestly quite astonished by their performance thus far. I will submit a full review in a few weeks.



Spoiler: First Pics of my Dark/Warm tuned Blur 美魔女 "Beautiful Witch" 300Ω


----------



## HungryPanda

I do not have the BS1, I do find the TO400 a little more refined than the EBX which is more energetic


----------



## groucho69

neuromancer said:


> And the winner is?



Panda of course!


----------



## RuFrost

HungryPanda said:


> I do not have the BS1, I do find the TO400 a little more refined than the EBX which is more energetic


what sources (dap, amp\dac etc..) have you chosen for this global test of the earbuds you have posted picture about?


----------



## HungryPanda (Jul 12, 2018)

I am using a: Fostex HPA4BL Desktop dac/amp b: iBasso DX200 c: Lotoo Paw 5000 MK2. I have to say the NiceHCK EBX is very easy to drive. I also have a ifi isd Black Label for the higher ohm items


----------



## Themilkman46290

I am looking for a good pair of buds for my dad, in the 30-40 dollar range, he has a Walnut v2s so 200-300 ohm would be good, he likes the Monk+ 64 ohm and the ty hi z hp150, and grado sr80 but wants more. Listens to allot of salsa, merengue, Latin jazz and rave/techno/ trance. Could you guys give a few suggestions?


----------



## DAndrew

RuFrost said:


> Can somebody\owners comment on Svara Pro, toneking to400s and Fengru hyck100? Really interested in those. I felt in love with bs1 official earbuds. So now, I do not really prefer emx500 or yuin shells. I'm looking for something similar with bs1 construction - metal shell and sort of complex insides of it. I usually find those with ability of exchanging cable.



I can only comment on the TO400s ,they are phenomenal. They are very detailed, even better than the Blur imo. They have good bass and slighly sparkly highs, but pleasant for me. Their strength tho is that they are very detailed.


----------



## mochill

WoodyLuvr said:


> Received my Blur 美魔女 <<Mimajyo>> "Beautiful Witch" 300 Ohm earbuds from Wong Kuan Wae the day before yesterday. Extremely pleased; honestly quite astonished by their performance thus far. I will submit a full review in a few weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: First Pics of my Dark/Warm tuned Blur 美魔女 "Beautiful Witch" 300Ω


Sounds like my type of sound, how much is it


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 12, 2018)

neuromancer said:


> Would you say the Toneking 400 trumps the BS1 Official as well as the EBX?  How's the low end comparitively?



I have the BS1 and to400s so I can give it a shot.

For me the TO400s and BS1 has quite different signatures but detail wise and technicalities are close enough.

TO400 is linear/flat bass that rolls off a little early, so some bass boost would really benefit this bud. Bs1 also greatly benefits from bass boost but only in the sub bass, as mid bass is arced nicely already for a warmer bass response than to400 which shows a quicker decay because of it's neutrality.

400 has fuller low mids, rolled off upper mids slightly, but has a strong emphasis in the 1-2khz region so vocals are forward and detailed, especially male vocals.

Bs1 has neutral low mids, still full but not as much as the 400. It gets brighter in the upper mids so it suits female vocals nicely. It's slightly smoother in the 1-2khz range and slighty less pushing detail at you but still detailed overall.

400 has neutral treble that's detailed and peaks in the upper treble for extension and airy qualities. Bs1 has neutral-bright treble. Sweet and airy with a similar peak to allow crisp and airy extension.

To400 has slightly bigger soundstaging but slightly less separation and precise imaging. Both are pretty close in this regard overall and neither perform poorly and can handle busy tracks well.


----------



## chinmie

DAndrew said:


> I can only comment on the TO400s ,they are phenomenal. They are very detailed, even better than the Blur imo. They have good bass and slighly sparkly highs, but pleasant for me. Their strength tho is that they are very detailed.



Which blur are you referring to? I haven't heard any blur buds, but i have heard the TO400. It is quite pleasant


----------



## neuromancer

seanc6441 said:


> I have the BS1 and to400s so I can give it a shot.
> 
> For me the TO400s and BS1 has quite different signatures but detail wise and technicalities are close enough.
> 
> ...



Excellent analysis....thank you!  Do you find the Shozy Stardust superior to these two? I have it and am wondering if either is worth picking up additionally.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Oldie but a goodie; https://thecontraptionist.blog/2018/07/12/auglamour-rx-1-super-silver-haze/

  ​


----------



## mbwilson111

B9Scrambler said:


> Oldie but a goodie; https://thecontraptionist.blog/2018/07/12/auglamour-rx-1-super-silver-haze/



Nice review.  I have always enjoyed my RX-1 when I use it.   BTW, that wooden block has a use.  If you turn it over and put it flat on your desk you can stand your phone in the groove... or it could hold a pen to keep it from rolling


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 12, 2018)

neuromancer said:


> Excellent analysis....thank you!  Do you find the Shozy Stardust superior to these two? I have it and am wondering if either is worth picking up additionally.


Stardust with multi hole foam vs TO400s with medium thickness full foam is incredibly close. Similar signature if you add bass boost to the TO400s around 30-120hz it’s ever closer to simulate a mid bass arc. However both are a little lacking in the deep sub bass region.

Stardust is a little sweeter sounding, TO400s is a little more analytical. Both are about as detailed but the 400 pushes it slightly more aggressively.

Even the treble response is similar but I'd give the edge to the BK for being slightly more pleasant sparkle and equally as airy. But it’s good from both.

400 has a bigger soundstage but the bk has better imaging.

Honestly both are very good but really excell with EQ and the right foams to take them from good to excellent.


----------



## redkingjoe (Jul 12, 2018)

If TO400 is that good, shouldn’t we expect the TY2 pro, which is 1.5 times more expensive and from the same brand, be better?

The ty2 is with dual speakers!

Anyone has any experiences with these?


----------



## neuromancer

seanc6441 said:


> Stardust with multi hole foam vs TO400s with medium thickness full foam is incredibly close. Similar signature if you add bass boost to the TO400s around 30-120hz it’s ever closer to simulate a mid bass arc. However both are a little lacking in the deep sub bass region.
> 
> Stardust is a little sweeter sounding, TO400s is a little more analytical. Both are about as detailed but the 400 pushes it slightly more aggressively.
> 
> ...


Well that is impressive considering the TO400 can be had for about half the price.  I have a variety of iem including some TOTLs and I can't believe how impressed I am by this Stardust.....it has given me renewed faith in what an earbud is capable of.  Amazing imagery, separation and cohesiveness for such a low price that it shames several iem that cost much more.  Makes me wonder if I should try the Zoomfred or even the Red Dragon.  Hmmm......the game of MORE!


----------



## seanc6441

neuromancer said:


> Well that is impressive considering the TO400 can be had for about half the price.  I have a variety of iem including some TOTLs and I can't believe how impressed I am by this Stardust.....it has given me renewed faith in what an earbud is capable of.  Amazing imagery, separation and cohesiveness for such a low price that it shames several iem that cost much more.  Makes me wonder if I should try the Zoomfred or even the Red Dragon.  Hmmm......the game of MORE!


I'm most impressed with my Black Ling after eliminating a peak in the 1-2khz region it's becomes just exceptional with thin foams. Amazing extension on both ends and the smoothest 'bright' earbud I've heard to date. The driver in it is just special.


----------



## Zerohour88

redkingjoe said:


> If TO400 is that good, shouldn’t we expect the TY2 pro, which is 1.5 times more expensive and from the same brand, be better?
> 
> The ty2 is with dual speakers!
> 
> Anyone has any experiences with these?



I commented on these awhile back, but I suppose people would rather discuss FOTM stuff. A user from the earbud FB group basically broke it down like this=TO200<TO400<TY2 Pro (mmcx version)<Masya. Its based on his impressions at least. TY2 Pro had better treble than the Masya, but that's about it. T65/T180/T200 falls under the same range (and are tuned differently with similar SQ)


----------



## neuromancer

seanc6441 said:


> I'm most impressed with my Black Ling after eliminating a peak in the 1-2khz region it's becomes just exceptional with thin foams. Amazing extension on both ends and the smoothest 'bright' earbud I've heard to date. The driver in it is just special.


Wonder how it competes with the Zoomfred which seems to be very well received.....similar price.  Anyone have both?


----------



## silverfishla

redkingjoe said:


> If TO400 is that good, shouldn’t we expect the TY2 pro, which is 1.5 times more expensive and from the same brand, be better?
> 
> The ty2 is with dual speakers!
> 
> Anyone has any experiences with these?


I don't know about the Pro version of the TY2, but the regular version (before MMCX) kinda sucked balls, for the money.  There's no mention (from what I've read) that they changed anything except adding the changeable cable.  Someone else might know more.


----------



## silverfishla

redkingjoe said:


> With $59, Ourart Ti7 gives a lot of quality to the product. I really love the titanium diaphragm of which some high end loudspeakers use as tweeter.


Man, I like everything about this earbud...except it is true...it lacks bass with many types of tracks.  What it does do well, is a nice vocal with meaty texture, and nice clear highs.  Not that there's no bass...it's there in a track like Tom Petty's "American Girl" where the bass is more counterpart to the vocals and lands in the midrange.  Something like Paul Simon's "Me and Julio Down by the Schoolyard" where it's a deeper bass with some low percussion, the bass almost is non-existent (or at least very hard to hear clearly).  So sad, too bad.  I actually like this bud, and listen to it occasionally, but I could never recommend it all willy nilly.
On another note, I am enjoying the BGVP DX3s.  I find them very pleasing and a step up from the DX3 in both build and sound.  I can't really give a review right now, though.  I am nowhere near the recommended 200 hour burn in with those.  New diaphragm material and all.


----------



## Themilkman46290

I am looking for a good pair of buds for my dad, in the 30-40 dollar range, he has a Walnut v2s so 200-300 ohm would be good, he likes the Monk+ 64 ohm and the ty hi z hp150, and grado sr80 but wants more. Listens to allot of salsa, merengue, Latin jazz and rave/techno/ trance. Could you guys give a few suggestions?


----------



## DAndrew

chinmie said:


> Which blur are you referring to? I haven't heard any blur buds, but i have heard the TO400. It is quite pleasant



The Blur 300, it is a very neutral earbud with an unique sound signature that can only be described as natural; sadly it's been discontinued


----------



## DAndrew

redkingjoe said:


> If TO400 is that good, shouldn’t we expect the TY2 pro, which is 1.5 times more expensive and from the same brand, be better?
> 
> The ty2 is with dual speakers!
> 
> Anyone has any experiences with these?



Seems that the TO400s is on sale on some store, you can see that it costs 95~ usually. Also remember that price is not always the indicator for quality


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 13, 2018)

mochill said:


> Sounds like my type of sound, how much is it


 208SGD = ~152USD


Spoiler: blur 美魔女 300Ω


----------



## WoodyLuvr

DAndrew said:


> The Blur 300, it is a very neutral earbud with an unique sound signature that can only be described as natural; sadly it's been discontinued


???
I just bought a pair of blur 美魔女 300Ω earbuds... *here*


----------



## DAndrew

WoodyLuvr said:


> ???
> I just bought a pair of blur 美魔女 300Ω earbuds... *here*



I have the OG Blur 300 , with different wire and plug and different housing (clear shell), iirc mine is called "Black Witch" while yours is "Beautiful Witch", the only thing they have in common is that they both are 300 ohms.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

DAndrew said:


> I have the OG Blur 300 , with different wire and plug and different housing (clear shell), iirc mine is called "Black Witch" while yours is "Beautiful Witch", the only thing they have in common is that they both are 300 ohms.


Gotcha   Completely different drivers?


----------



## DAndrew

WoodyLuvr said:


> Gotcha   Completely different drivers?



Either that or different tuning, Wong told me all his current Blurs are slightly different sounding than his old ones, but I cant say for sure why that is.


----------



## redkingjoe

DAndrew said:


> Either that or different tuning, Wong told me all his current Blurs are slightly different sounding than his old ones, but I cant say for sure why that is.



I have a  Blur Idkwtf ltd edition! It has a silver shell and has sound signature that is different from every other Blurs that was made before and after.

I thought we should establish a Blur club!


----------



## RuFrost

have anybody heard Fengru hyck100?
https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/Newe...f71,scm-url:1007.13338.106568.000000000000000


----------



## redkingjoe

DAndrew said:


> My solution to that was to buy huge amounts of foam, i have 400 pairs of thin foams and a couple hundred donuts


Did you happen to find foams made of pure silk or wool?

Someone says that silk and has great acoustics characters for music!


----------



## Themilkman46290

I don't get it, did I do something wrong? Why is everyone ignoring me?


----------



## rahmish

Themilkman46290 said:


> I don't get it, did I do something wrong? Why is everyone ignoring me?


I can suggest only Willsound mk1 or mk2, but it could be a bit more expensive and they both are 32 Ohm, but sounds great with my Zishan Z1 (around 12$ delivery charge from rholupat), another one is K's 300 pro, I really like it for your suggested genres


----------



## DAndrew

redkingjoe said:


> I have a  Blur Idkwtf ltd edition! It has a silver shell and has sound signature that is different from every other Blurs that was made before and after.
> 
> I thought we should establish a Blur club!



Silver as in the precious metal? Wow, that is pretty much the best you can get in the Blur lineup...Blur club does have a nice sound to it haha


----------



## Themilkman46290

Thanks, guess there's not anything good in that price range, he plans on getting an amp so don't thing going low impedance will be an option


----------



## DAndrew

redkingjoe said:


> Did you happen to find foams made of pure silk or wool?
> 
> Someone says that silk and has great acoustics characters for music!



Yeah they do make great alternatives and while I cannot say about silk, I have thought about making velour foams...the comfort of velour is out of this world. Thanks for reminding me, I will probably make some in a couple of weeks!


----------



## DAndrew

Themilkman46290 said:


> Thanks, guess there's not anything good in that price range, he plans on getting an amp so don't thing going low impedance will be an option



If you want higher impedance buds, I can fully recommend the ToneKing TO400s, they cost a bit more but they are really great, and they are 400 ohms


----------



## HungryPanda

The T0200 is very good too


----------



## toear

HungryPanda said:


> Brothers in arms


Of that bunch, what is your one pick if bass extension /impact is a concern?

Thx!


----------



## Guggga

Themilkman46290 said:


> Thanks, guess there's not anything good in that price range, he plans on getting an amp so don't thing going low impedance will be an option




The willsound mk2 offer TOTL value and scale well with an amp. Search the thread for impressions, members across the globe have posted favorably about them. Hope itihelps !


----------



## seanc6441

Themilkman46290 said:


> Thanks, guess there's not anything good in that price range, he plans on getting an amp so don't thing going low impedance will be an option



K300 is 300 ohm?


----------



## HungryPanda

Yes K300 is 300 ohm, you win a cigar


----------



## HungryPanda

toear said:


> Of that bunch, what is your one pick if bass extension /impact is a concern?
> 
> Thx!


 That would be the NiceHCK EBX


----------



## 40760

Themilkman46290 said:


> I don't get it, did I do something wrong? Why is everyone ignoring me?



You can try the 300ohm Willsound...


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> Yes K300 is 300 ohm, you win a cigar


I was letting him know that it could be 300 ohm so it will play well with the amp he was talking about.


----------



## redkingjoe

Themilkman46290 said:


> Thanks, guess there's not anything good in that price range, he plans on getting an amp so don't thing going low impedance will be an option



I didn’t reply coz your original budget was a bit too small. But if you are willing to pay a little bit more the TO400 is a highly praised TOTL. 

Recently, I am searching for TOTL, It seems that TO400 is having a great price performance ratio.


----------



## waynes world

Themilkman46290 said:


> I am looking for a good pair of buds for my dad, in the 30-40 dollar range, he has a Walnut v2s so 200-300 ohm would be good, he likes the Monk+ 64 ohm and the ty hi z hp150, and grado sr80 but wants more. Listens to allot of salsa, merengue, Latin jazz and rave/techno/ trance. Could you guys give a few suggestions?



I haven't listened to my Monk lite 120's off of the Walnut V2 yet, but am going to do that soon. My guess is that they will sound great. So that might be an option (if they still are being sold, and if your Dad doesn't require a huge amount of bass, and if your Dad is okay with spending only $10 lol).

Or as mentioned, the Willsound MK2's are awesome (amped or unamped).


----------



## redkingjoe

DAndrew said:


> Yeah they do make great alternatives and while I cannot say about silk, I have thought about making velour foams...the comfort of velour is out of this world. Thanks for reminding me, I will probably make some in a couple of weeks!



If you can find silk foam, please kindly let me know, there’s a lot of applications of silk for hifi! I did put the acoustic revive silk inside my loudspeakers to improve SQ. 

Wool( the finest one) is also a great candidate, especially for winter. I have also tried the wool inside loudspeakers for sound tuning.

Both silk and wool sound organic.


----------



## 40760

waynes world said:


> I haven't listened to my Monk lite 120's off of the Walnut V2 yet, but am going to do that soon. My guess is that they will sound great. So that might be an option (if they still are being sold, and if your Dad doesn't require a huge amount of bass, and if your Dad is okay with spending only $10 lol).
> 
> Or as mentioned, the Willsound MK2's are awesome (amped or unamped).



I think the 120ohm Monk Lite is currently only available in SPC. They might discontinue the whole line of Monk Lites altogether once supply runs out.


----------



## siderak

redkingjoe said:


> I have a  Blur Idkwtf ltd edition! It has a silver shell and has sound signature that is different from every other Blurs that was made before and after.
> 
> I thought we should establish a Blur club!


Done!

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blur-earbuds-lovers.884062/


----------



## toear

HungryPanda said:


> That would be the NiceHCK EBX


Thank you! Would you consider these over the Svara L Pro for electronic /bass heavy music? I am guessing the ebx is a step up all around but I read a review on aliexpress.com that there are not for bass heavy music  but have also read that the Svara L Pro is good for electronic music, (but is less capable in terms of separation, detail, and soundstage?) ...

(I prefer an earphone that is not naturally mid/high centric/hot/sibilant that requires eq to 'correct' if that makes sense)

 Thanks again and much appreciated!


----------



## HungryPanda

The Svara L I have is not the Pro version and is very good but The EBX is just more versatile with different genres, its bass is very good with electronic and dance music though


----------



## DAndrew

redkingjoe said:


> If you can find silk foam, please kindly let me know, there’s a lot of applications of silk for hifi! I did put the acoustic revive silk inside my loudspeakers to improve SQ.
> 
> Wool( the finest one) is also a great candidate, especially for winter. I have also tried the wool inside loudspeakers for sound tuning.
> 
> Both silk and wool sound organic.



I think I will DIY some , why not, I have access to all the materials needed , all I need is to find some time!


----------



## subwoof3r

toear said:


> Thank you! Would you consider these over the Svara L Pro for electronic /bass heavy music? I am guessing the ebx is a step up all around but I read a review on aliexpress.com that there are not for bass heavy music  but have also read that the Svara L Pro is good for electronic music, (but is less capable in terms of separation, detail, and soundstage?) ...
> 
> (I prefer an earphone that is not naturally mid/high centric/hot/sibilant that requires eq to 'correct' if that makes sense)
> 
> Thanks again and much appreciated!



(from what I can read) I'm very confident on the EBX for electronic music (which I listen a lot). I should receive my EBX in the next few days and will make a quick first impression and compare them to MK2 and PK32  (before final review)


----------



## HungryPanda

I listened to the EBX all day yesterday and today I have been listening to the BGVP DX3s, EBX stamps all over it for the bass


----------



## cathee

Letting go of my LNIB ZoomFred ($250 shipped CONUS) and LNIB BS1 ($80) or both for $300. Thought I'd let the thread know before I post it in FS. PM me if anyone's interested.


----------



## toear

HungryPanda said:


> The Svara L I have is not the Pro version and is very good but The EBX is just more versatile with different genres, its bass is very good with electronic and dance music though


Ok great .. Thank you very much   !


----------



## toear

subwoof3r said:


> (from what I can read) I'm very confident on the EBX for electronic music (which I listen a lot). I should receive my EBX in the next few days and will make a quick first impression and compare them to MK2 and PK32  (before final review)


That would be fantastic! I look forward to it... Much appreciated!


----------



## toear

HungryPanda said:


> I listened to the EBX all day yesterday and today I have been listening to the BGVP DX3s, EBX stamps all over it for the bass


... These are the kinds of references that 'paint pictures' thanks!


----------



## toear

HungryPanda said:


> I listened to the EBX all day yesterday and today I have been listening to the BGVP DX3s, EBX stamps all over it for the bass


Actually... For a reference I can specifically relate to ... How do the EBX compare to you hd650? Or the awk-f64 (I find these have heavy subs... Maybe a tad too much...  ) I have these as well...


----------



## HungryPanda

EBX is much better than awk-64 by a long way. The only earbud that reminds me of HD650 is K's K600


----------



## toear

HungryPanda said:


> EBX is much better than awk-64 by a long way. The only earbud that reminds me of HD650 is K's K600


Ok thanks! And how would you compare the EBX to the k's k600?

Much appreciated!


----------



## HungryPanda

K's 600 need a good amp to drive them but they sound like you have a full set of headphones on, smoother than the EBX with a touch deeper bass


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> K's 600 need a good amp to drive them but they sound like you have a full set of headphones on, smoother than the EBX with a touch deeper bass



I have the K's 500 - and they, along with my Wong Kuan Wae "Blur 魔音", are my favorite earbuds.
If you've heard both the K's 500 and K's 600 - is there much difference in sound between them?


----------



## HungryPanda

I have not heard the K500's unfortunately


----------



## toear

HungryPanda said:


> K's 600 need a good amp to drive them but they sound like you have a full set of headphones on, smoother than the EBX with a touch deeper bass


Ok thank you... I should have led with 'what earphones sounds like hd650s?'... Lol!  Thanks again!


----------



## toear

DBaldock9 said:


> I have the K's 500 - and they, along with my Wong Kuan Wae "Blur 魔音", are my favorite earbuds.
> If you've heard both the K's 500 and K's 600 - is there much difference in sound between them?


Have you heard the hd650?


----------



## rkw (Jul 13, 2018)

redkingjoe said:


> the TO400 is a highly praised TOTL.


Interesting the surge of praise for the TO400 in the past few days, but not much enthusiasm when it was brought up a couple of weeks ago. I find it has good detail and resolution but its balance is overly bright and low on bass. Too far from neutral balance to be considered TOTL.


----------



## silverfishla

HungryPanda said:


> I listened to the EBX all day yesterday and today I have been listening to the BGVP DX3s, EBX stamps all over it for the bass


Going to have to check that one out (EBX).  How's the rest of it sound as far as fidelity?


----------



## DBaldock9

rkw said:


> Interesting the surge of praise for the TO400 in the past few days, but not much enthusiasm when it was brought up a couple of weeks ago. I find it has good detail and resolution but its balance is overly bright and low on bass. Too far from neutral balance to be considered TOTL.



I like the TO400s, but think that the TO200 actually has a bit more Low Bass, possibly due to being vented.
The TO200 housing is larger, but weighs less.


----------



## redkingjoe

DAndrew said:


> I think I will DIY some , why not, I have access to all the materials needed , all I need is to find some time!



Envy you! I was kept thinking to buy some silk handkerchief to break it down to make the thinnest foams!

Do you have access to 
1 diamond amorphous diaphragm 
2 ceramic composite shell?


----------



## 40760

I’ve been putting off wanting to try the EBX for a Long time and these recent posts are not helping!


----------



## DAndrew

redkingjoe said:


> Envy you! I was kept thinking to buy some silk handkerchief to break it down to make the thinnest foams!
> 
> Do you have access to
> 1 diamond amorphous diaphragm
> 2 ceramic composite shell?



I dont think it will work with a handkerchief , it should be more fluffy. I dont have the diaphragm nor the shell, but I have thought about designing a shell, I have a friend who is good at designing and access to a pro 3D printer so prototyping the shell should be fast-ish. I just need to think about some rough sketches and ideas about the shape of it.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 14, 2018)

DAndrew said:


> I dont think it will work with a handkerchief , it should be more fluffy. I dont have the diaphragm nor the shell, but I have thought about designing a shell, I have a friend who is good at designing and access to a pro 3D printer so prototyping the shell should be fast-ish. I just need to think about some rough sketches and ideas about the shape of it.


K’s Ling shape but with the venting of regular buds would be cool. That bell shape looks great and fits like a glove. Although I think a metal pk shell would be the ultimate in comfort and luxury design.


rkw said:


> Interesting the surge of praise for the TO400 in the past few days, but not much enthusiasm when it was brought up a couple of weeks ago. I find it has good detail and resolution but its balance is overly bright and low on bass. Too far from neutral balance to be considered TOTL.


Interesting I found it quite neutral on a powerful source, lacking in sub bass and a slight upper mid recession but overall quite neutral.

Not my favorite signature but I can see why people do like them, they don't skimp on detail and have a fairly generous soundstage.


----------



## HungryPanda

The T400s sounds really good from my desktop amp and my DX200, bass is powerful enough


----------



## DBaldock9

toear said:


> Have you heard the hd650?



The only HiFi Headphones I've got (or heard), are my Beyerdynamic DT-831 (from around 2001).


----------



## BloodyPenguin

#TheAnswerIsAlwaysVido


----------



## capnjack

Just received my ZenLL was thinking that they’re a bit bright initially and how you guys were using yours, foams or not?


----------



## HungryPanda

foams on mine


----------



## DBaldock9

capnjack said:


> Just received my ZenLL was thinking that they’re a bit bright initially and how you guys were using yours, foams or not?



Was looking on the VE website, and they're currently offering the Zen Lite L (as a freebie), when ordering the Zen 2.0 Omega.


----------



## capnjack

DBaldock9 said:


> Was looking on the VE website, and they're currently offering the Zen Lite L (as a freebie), when ordering the Zen 2.0 Omega.


As I already have Zen 2 the LL’s were a freebie that Lee was offering to Zen 2 owners last month. I’m finding the Monk+ thin foams sound good on the LL


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> K’s Ling shape but with the venting of regular buds would be cool. That bell shape looks great and fits like a glove. Although I think a metal pk shell would be the ultimate in comfort and luxury design.



A metal pk shell should be the easiest to make as you only need to make a mold and just cast it. I wonder how other materials fare tho, like wood


----------



## DAndrew

DBaldock9 said:


> Was looking on the VE website, and they're currently offering the Zen Lite L (as a freebie), when ordering the Zen 2.0 Omega.


Zen Lite L ? Whats different from just Zen Lite? I am tempted to buy the RA Plus since its also free for that.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jul 14, 2018)

DAndrew said:


> Zen Lite L ? Whats different from just Zen Lite? I am tempted to buy the RA Plus since its also free for that.



The LL(Lite Lite)  is lower impedance than the Lite.

The Zen Lite is meant to be used with a decent amp.  The Zen Lite LIte was designed to sound good with a phone.  But of course you can amp it too if you want.  I have the Zen LIte.

If you join the VE facebook page you will find all the info you need... it sometimes gets complicated.


----------



## DAndrew

mbwilson111 said:


> The LL(Lite Lite)  is lower impedance than the Lite.
> 
> If you join the VE facebook page you will find all the info you need... it sometimes gets complicated.



Well then it kinda defeats the purpose to bundle it with an amp lol


----------



## mbwilson111

DAndrew said:


> Well then it kinda defeats the purpose to bundle it with an amp lol



He was bundling the Zen Lite with that amp but he changes things a lot.  I bought my Lite used.  I do not have the RA amp but I  have a few other amps.

Do you have any VE products?


----------



## DAndrew

mbwilson111 said:


> He was bundling the Zen Lite with that amp but he changes things a lot.  I bought my Lite used.  I do not have the RA amp but I  have a few other amps.
> 
> Do you have any VE products?



I have the Monk+ and Monk Lite, thinking about messing with the Monk+ but I doubt theres much you can do with such a dark sound sig


----------



## mbwilson111

DAndrew said:


> I have the Monk+ and Monk Lite, thinking about messing with the Monk+ but I doubt theres much you can do with such a dark sound sig



I love the sound of both the Monk + (64 ohm) and the Monk Lite (I  have the 40 ohm and the 120 ohm).  I think my Zen Lite is 300 ohm.  Love them all... and others in my list... even some really cheap ones.   I easily adjust to most sound signatures.  The only thing I don't like is if something is too bright or fatiguing.  I get listener fatigue easily.  I always have silent parts of my day.

The Monk Plus likes to be amped.  Most things will benefit from amping.


----------



## DAndrew

mbwilson111 said:


> I love the sound of both the Monk + (64 ohm) and the Monk Lite (I  have the 40 ohm and the 120 ohm).  I think my Zen Lite is 300 ohm.  Love them all... and others in my list... even some really cheap ones.   I easily adjust to most sound signatures.  The only thing I don't like is if something is too bright or fatiguing.  I get listener fatigue easily.  I always have silent parts of my day.
> 
> The Monk Plus likes to be amped.  Most things will benefit from amping.



Yeah I cant stand fatiguing and bright sound signatures either, I also agree that the Monk+ is nice and while I too enjoy diversity in sound signatures, there is just that one sound signature that just clicks, for me it was the Focal Elear; it just sounded _right_


----------



## toear

DBaldock9 said:


> The only HiFi Headphones I've got (or heard), are my Beyerdynamic DT-831 (from around 2001).


ok thanks!


----------



## rkw

DAndrew said:


> A metal pk shell should be the easiest to make as you only need to make a mold and just cast it.


Lamia Manee is probably using lost wax casting, which is used in jewelry making and suitable for low volume manufacturing as they are doing. For high volume, injection molding would be used, but tooling for the molds is very expensive. Obviously molds already exist for PK shell plastic injection molding, but someone would have to step up to making molds for metal injection.



DAndrew said:


> I wonder how other materials fare tho, like wood


For complex 3D shapes (such as PK shell), CNC manufacturing can be used (also for metal, but there are cheaper options for metal).


----------



## DAndrew

rkw said:


> Lamia Manee is probably using lost wax casting, which is used in jewelry making and suitable for low volume manufacturing as they are doing. For high volume, injection molding would be used, but tooling for the molds is very expensive. Obviously molds already exist for PK shell plastic injection molding, but someone would have to step up to making molds for metal injection.
> 
> 
> For complex 3D shapes (such as PK shell), CNC manufacturing can be used (also for metal, but there are cheaper options for metal).



I had an idea about how to make them and have access to the required tools, a forge and a CNC machine, just wondered what the best material would be, while metal is more premium feeling , wood could be comfier i think


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 14, 2018)

DAndrew said:


> I had an idea about how to make them and have access to the required tools, a forge and a CNC machine, just wondered what the best material would be, while metal is more premium feeling , wood could be comfier i think


I think the brass in my ling has really cool vibration properties and may even have harmonic resonance benefits although I cannot be sure about the latter. I wonder how other metals would fair. Anything that's used in instruments surely has some value acoustically!

Personally if it's not a full size can I don't see wood being particularly beneficial aesthetics wise as the wood tends to look it's best when you see the full grain or have larger surfaces. For instance looking gorgeous in grado or audeze headphones or some closed backs, but never really applied much to IEM or earbuds.

Just my opinion of course.


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> I think the brass in my ling has really cool vibration properties and may even have harmonic resonance benefits although I cannot be sure about the latter. I wonder how other metals would fair. Anything that's used in instruments surely has some value acoustically!
> 
> Personally if it's not a full size can I don't see wood being particularly beneficial aesthetics wise as the wood tends to look it's best when you see the full grain or have larger surfaces. For instance looking gorgeous in grado or audeze headphones or some closed backs, but never really applied much to IEM or earbuds.
> 
> Just my opinion of course.



I agree with you on the looks, but I thought about wood because its lighter than metal so more comfort and the acoustic properties


----------



## DBaldock9

capnjack said:


> As I already have Zen 2 the LL’s were a freebie that Lee was offering to Zen 2 owners last month. I’m finding the Monk+ thin foams sound good on the LL



Do you have any Blur earbuds, from Wong Kuan Wae?
Can you give a quick comparison of the Zen 2, and the Blur?
Thanks!


----------



## HungryPanda

Wooden earbuds I hear you say?


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> Wooden earbuds I hear you say?


Ah yes the Yinmans. Is the sound grainy enough?


----------



## doggiemom

Surprised to find that I like the Zen LL better than the Zen L or the ZOE.    They just have a fun sound with big bass that is great for cheesy summer pop songs.


@DBaldock9  I ran through some test tracks with the K's Samsara, 500 and 600........ I have a few pages of notes on them, but still need to put into a coherent post.


----------



## HungryPanda

The YinMan 150's are actually ok, don't have the widest sound stage but got that nice thick wooden bass, enjoying listening to Stevie Nicks with them right now


----------



## RuFrost (Jul 14, 2018)

What about YinMan 600? Have anybody tried those? Impressive price...640 ohm!!!!
https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/Newe...set-Better-Than-Monk-Earburd/32779057091.html


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> Ah yes the Yinmans. Is the sound grainy enough?


----------



## seanc6441

The box and cable and adjustable plug look nice too judging by those snap shots.


----------



## chinmie

RuFrost said:


> What about YinMan 600? Have anybody tried those? Impressive price...640 ohm!!!!
> https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/Newe...set-Better-Than-Monk-Earburd/32779057091.html



The yinman 600 is great. Even though i don't own them, it is one of my favorite earbuds I've heard


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> The yinman 600 is great. Even though i don't own them, it is one of my favorite earbuds I've heard


Really? Is it the signature or price to performance, how good we talking?

Actually don't tell me I don't need more earbuds haha, but please do tell me


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Really? Is it the signature or price to performance, how good we talking?
> 
> Actually don't tell me I don't need more earbuds haha, but please do tell me



so should i tell you or not? 

well, it has enough amount of everything and nice resolution. the only concern i have with them is because someone post a picture of it shell shattering, so i'm a bit wary about the built. although to be fair, my friend's unit is fine. the closest sounding buds that i have which have somewhat similar sound quality and signature is my puresound ps100-500


----------



## ChrisGarrett

chinmie said:


> The yinman 600 is great. Even though i don't own them, it is one of my favorite earbuds I've heard



Sorry for going off-topic, but I'm new here.

My question is. is that I'm seeing higher impedance numbers with better earbuds 200-300-600 ohms and I'm just wondering what you're using to drive these higher impedance earphones?

I've got a old iPod Gen. 4, so I'm going to guess I need to keep things down in that 10-30 ohm range, correct?  I'm a HiFi guy and understand impedance matching, but I'm still green with it comes to DAPs and IEM/EBs.

I'm just getting started with 'OK' earbuds and IEMs for now and I'm in that <$50 range, but still see higher numbers in some of the medium priced range.

Thanks, Chris


----------



## chinmie

ChrisGarrett said:


> Sorry for going off-topic, but I'm new here.
> 
> My question is. is that I'm seeing higher impedance numbers with better earbuds 200-300-600 ohms and I'm just wondering what you're using to drive these higher impedance earphones?
> 
> ...



some high impedance earbuds that's sensitive enough have no problem played even direct from phones,while some would not have enough gain, or even if they do have enough volume might sound dull and muddy (underpowered). the last two scenarios definitely needs amping, and preferably ones with high gain capability (for the latter scenario).

i don't really like lugging an amp around, so i prefer low impedance and high impedance earphones that are still "direct from phone" friendly


----------



## TLDRonin

Has any tried the anniversary red/blue **** PT15s? Curious how they are compared to the original PT15s


----------



## capnjack (Jul 15, 2018)

DBaldock9 said:


> Do you have any Blur earbuds, from Wong Kuan Wae?
> Can you give a quick comparison of the Zen 2, and the Blur?
> Thanks!


You might want to take a look 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blur-earbuds-lovers.884062/

I have the White Chocolate - 150ohm (2.5 trrs) Zen 2 - 3.5se. It’s a lot easier to drive than the Zen 2 for a start. I personally love the Zen, they were my first higher-end bud, however, I think the Blurs are a step up. It may not be a massive step, but they do everything that the Zen does, only with a bit more of everything! Bass is definitely more in all departments, mids are very similarly articulate and detailed, treble is again crisp, pleasing to listen to and never sibilant. Soundstage is airey, detailed and easy to pick out instruments, slightly better than Zen.
However there is a 50% price difference between the two, but you are already aware of that.
Overall I’d say that the Blur has toppled the old king. Long live the king!


----------



## subwoof3r

palestofwhite said:


> I’ve been putting off wanting to try the EBX for a Long time and these recent posts are not helping!


I was exactly in the same case few pages ago


----------



## seanc6441

ChrisGarrett said:


> Sorry for going off-topic, but I'm new here.
> 
> My question is. is that I'm seeing higher impedance numbers with better earbuds 200-300-600 ohms and I'm just wondering what you're using to drive these higher impedance earphones?
> 
> ...


I'd say you'd be safe with anything under 60 ohm to be sure your phone can drive them.

The Willsound range excluding the 300ohm variant are all around 16-32 ohm and sound excellent for the price. Cost is around $30-40 for the MK and PK series.

There's a new PK16 coming out that's a lower impendance clone to the PK32 but I doubt your phone would have an issue driving either.

Depending on your preferences for sound signature and music you enjoy people will recommend you diffferent buds in the Willsound range or otherwise.

So what's your preferences for sound?


----------



## ChrisGarrett

seanc6441 said:


> I'd say you'd be safe with anything under 60 ohm to be sure your phone can drive them.
> 
> The Willsound range excluding the 300ohm variant are all around 16-32 ohm and sound excellent for the price. Cost is around $30-40 for the MK and PK series.
> 
> ...



Thanks Sean,

For the record, it's an iPod 4th gen. player and not a phone yet.  May pick up a used iPhone 5s as a standalone player, but for now the iPod will have to suffice.

I've got 53 entire classic Jazz albums on it--everything from Miles, to Mitchel to Evans.  I've got lots stuff in between from Mogwai to The Cure and some classical, so I'm over the map.

I don't expect decent sound coming from iTunes and the iPod, but my question, I guess, was meant more to tackle the impedance matching, having seen some really high numbers.

My buddy, who is also a regular HiFi tube/horn guy, has the LG V30 just for the MQA streaming and he's waiting on some CA Lyra IIs to be delivered, but he mentioned staying around 20 ohms, or below.

600 isn't in the same solar system, lol.

Chris


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 15, 2018)

ChrisGarrett said:


> Thanks Sean,
> 
> For the record, it's an iPod 4th gen. player and not a phone yet.  May pick up a used iPhone 5s as a standalone player, but for now the iPod will have to suffice.
> 
> ...


Well if you are in the market for a player in the future I absolutely recommend a used LG V20 paired with any of the best audio apps like UAPP for like $180. Amazing audio (same dac/amp as the V30 minus the DSP/software tweak settings) in which you can power most earbuds up to 300 ohm easily. Absolutely love my V20 so much so that I tried and moved on a ~$400 Cayin N5ii and a ~$550 Hiby R6 because to my ears the V20 was more pleasant overall albeit edging towards a brighter tonality (which I like).

I also recommend the Willsounds for your Ipod, if you use the search function on top you can isolate posts on here about the willsounds mk and pk series and see if any of them appeal to you


----------



## DBaldock9

capnjack said:


> You might want to take a look
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blur-earbuds-lovers.884062/
> 
> ...



Thanks! 
I've subscribed to that Thread, and I have pages & pages of Facebook  Personal Messages with Wong, dating back more than a year.
He has not listened to the VE Zen 2 Zoe, to be able to give me a reference comparison with his newer earbuds.
Looks like there's a 150Ω hALF/hALF on it's way to me - as my new TOTL earbud.


----------



## capnjack

DBaldock9 said:


> Thanks!
> I've subscribed to that Thread, and I have pages & pages of Facebook  Personal Messages with Wong, dating back more than a year.
> He has not listened to the VE Zen 2 Zoe, to be able to give me a reference comparison with his newer earbuds.
> Looks like there's a 150Ω hALF/hALF on it's way to me - as my new TOTL earbud.


I don’t think you’ll be disappointed both my pairs of Blur’s are great sounding and worth every penny imho.


----------



## redkingjoe

chaiyuta said:


> @redkingjoe :
> 
> Disc Player : May I know what is the top5? Is there any present new model available to buy?




 


I suddenly dig out a portable CD player from my storeroom.

It’s one of the best, definitely a top 10 in history of discman. It’s very rare with remote control, sea equaliser, rca out, Rechargeable batteries etc.


----------



## Themilkman46290

Thanks, for suggestions, will try to check them out


----------



## Themilkman46290

Has anyone here tried the willsound mk300? How are they?


----------



## subwoof3r (Jul 16, 2018)

Themilkman46290 said:


> Has anyone here tried the willsound mk300? How are they?


From what I can see on *Willy's facebook page*, there was only 1 pair made and has been already sold very shortly 
Now the question is, who is that "mysterious" guy who bought it ? ^^


----------



## chinmie

subwoof3r said:


> From what I can see on *Willy's facebook page*, there was only 1 pair made and has been already sold very shortly
> Now the question is, who is that "mysterious" guy who bought it ? ^^



i bought it! should be arriving tomorrow 

that one is MK300 with 8 braided cable that he made for auction in my local audio forum, and he made two of them. the regular MK300 is the 300ohm version, but because the tuning is so improved from the old one, he renames it to MK300 (also so that it fits more to the other “MK“ product naming.

the regular MK300 (balanced version)


----------



## Carrow (Jul 16, 2018)

no longer relevant


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 16, 2018)

Got my new pk32. The back vent foam looks different than the original and also the foams supplied have a subtle difference in density but are still white full foams.

Initial impressions are they sound clean, detailed and medium bodied. Currently I’d place them slightly below Shozy BK SQ, more akin to the Shozy Cygnus but leaner mids and similar quality, wider soundstage. Further use and a full listen may change that. Although I’m fairly satisfied with them out of box, lets see what changes after 40 hours.

Oh and it goes without saying bass is correct now on these, much better than my first pk32.


----------



## daid1

seanc6441 said:


> Got my new pk32. The back vent foam looks different than the original and also the foams supplied have a subtle difference in density but are still white full foams.
> 
> Initial impressions are they sound clean, detailed and medium bodied. Currently I’d place them slightly below Shozy BK SQ, more akin to the Shozy Cygnus but leaner mids and similar quality. Further use and a full listen may change that. Although I’m fairly satisfied with them out of box, lets see what changes after 40 hours.
> 
> Oh and it goes without saying bass is correct now on these, much better than my first pk32.



How about the igaging? Is "stereo" like the previous one?


----------



## mbwilson111

My Sony Ericsson HPM-64 with the @HungryPanda mod   These actually sound very good.  Good enough that he has one in red and one in black ordered for himself.  I have a red one coming as well.  We also ordered another pink one to play around with  possible mods other than just changing the cable.  Anyone familiar with this bud knows it requires a cable change to be useable with anything other than a Sony Ericsson phone.  






This is what you get if you order one - It has a J cable with the left part ending in a 3.5mm plug near your jaw.  You have to plug that into that other part which has a remote at one end and the phone adaptor at the other end.   Useless with a dap or smart phone.


----------



## rahmish

mbwilson111 said:


> My Sony Ericsson HPM-64 with the @HungryPanda mod   These actually sound very good.  Good enough that he has one in red and one in black ordered for himself.  I have a red one coming as well.  We also ordered another pink one to play around with  possible mods other than just changing the cable.  Anyone familiar with this bud knows it requires a cable change to be useable with anything other than a Sony Ericsson phone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Someone else likes hpm-64! I really enjoying this buds, I have 5 different colors at the moment


----------



## mbwilson111

rahmish said:


> Someone else likes hpm-64! I really enjoying this buds, I have 5 different colors at the moment



Can you share photos of yours?  I have not seen a green one anywhere.  I know I could still get an orange one.  What mods have you done besides recabling?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 16, 2018)

daid1 said:


> How about the igaging? Is "stereo" like the previous one?


Trying to judge without any bass in the other one but yes, sounds very similar presentation wise. Width is very good, depth is moderate. Stereo separation is noticeable and panning is accurate.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Can you share photos of yours?  I have not seen a green one anywhere.  I know I could still get an orange one.  What mods have you done besides recabling?


Think I saw something very like this recabled on Earbuds Anonymous group on facebook. An OEM sony Ericsson bud.


----------



## rahmish

mbwilson111 said:


> Can you share photos of yours?  I have not seen a green one anywhere.  I know I could still get an orange one.  What mods have you done besides recabling?


I think I bought last green on ebay... Hardest to get are blue and purple, I have only one photo, because I'm on holidays at the moment and my hpm-64 are at home, I just tried to put different thickness dampen cotton, but, to be honest didn't have a time to listen to them carefully. Green and black are missing at the photo


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> Think I saw something very like this recabled on Earbuds Anonymous group on facebook. An OEM sony Ericsson bud.



Several people have done it including the guy who makes the Blurs.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

Got my Pandas yesterday.  Gave them a couple hours of listening last night.  They sound very good...and huge too!  Really full sound with nothing harsh.  Listened to a wide variety of different stuff and it all sounded great.


----------



## seanc6441

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> Got my Pandas yesterday.  Gave them a couple hours of listening last night.  They sound very good...and huge too!  Really full sound with nothing harsh.  Listened to a wide variety of different stuff and it all sounded great.


They are a little mid centric to me but the mids are actually very good for the price and rich-musical sounding.

Of course I sold them on but whilst I had them I found them very pleasant for relaxing listening.

Glad you enjoy em!


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> Think I saw something very like this recabled on Earbuds Anonymous group on facebook. An OEM sony Ericsson bud.



Now that it's been a while, have you noticed any change in your PK32?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 17, 2018)

palestofwhite said:


> Now that it's been a while, have you noticed any change in your PK32?


Too soon! Need to burn it in more as I gave up after a few hours because I wanted to listen to them instead last night 

They are quite detailed though. Bass could be a little more well rounded and punchy, but nothing EQ can't handle as it still has enough quality and extension to sound good with a slight low end boost.

By far the most impressive quality is it's wide soundstage and stereo separation. Surprisingly spacious from side to side with a clean midrange that separates all instruments precisely.

Treble is a little soft for me but most will like it, for me an EQ bump helps here too. It's a nice sweet analog treble, never sharp or agressive which I like. It's not rolled off too much, just doesn't hold attention in the upper region over the mid range which is definitely the star of the show. It still has enough air and sparkle though, it's definitely NOT muted or muddy at all.


----------



## subwoof3r (Jul 17, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Too soon! Need to burn it in more as I gave up after a few hours because I wanted to listen to them instead last night
> 
> They are quite detailed though. Bass could be a little more well rounded and punchy, but nothing EQ can't handle as it still has enough quality and extension to sound good with a slight low end boost.
> 
> ...



The more I listen to my PK32 since my review and the more I find it "bassy", lol
It now have much bass (still not much subbass but the fine quantity) and now it sound overall very "warm" to me.
It has much impact (maybe even more than my MK2.2).
Highs remains exactly how you feel 
Keep using them sometimes between two burnin so you can see how will be the changes, which is always interesting during a burning process.
But theres something sure, I really fell in love with PK2 shells now, which are the best to fit my ears.


----------



## cqtek

I'm not a basshead, but I love bass. I listen a lot of electronic music. I have several little earbuds and PK shell is my preferred.
But I still have not found any earbud with this type of capsule that can offer a good level of bass and combination of clarity like other earbuds of type MX500 that I own. 
Some help?
Thanks.


----------



## HungryPanda

@cqtek I just got the Toneking TO200 and it has excellent bass not overpowering as mids and highs are fine. I already had the TO400 but found that the T200 has more bass


----------



## cqtek

Thanks @HungryPanda, but Toneking TO200 has the same shell than tomahawks? This shell is to fat for me and they fall of my ears. For that reason I had to give them away.


----------



## waynes world

cqtek said:


> I'm not a basshead, but I love bass. I listen a lot of electronic music. I have several little earbuds and PK shell is my preferred.
> But I still have not found any earbud with this type of capsule that can offer a good level of bass and combination of clarity like other earbuds of type MX500 that I own.
> Some help?
> Thanks.



I love electronic/trance as well. Svara L 32 ohm is your friend.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...or-Earbud-Earphone-With-MMCX/32810127070.html


----------



## cqtek (Jul 17, 2018)

Ahhh @waynes world, the Svara L 32 are old friends, I never decided on them, because I had read that there was another version, with different impedance, that was better. Do they have good clarity? I do not want them to be as dark as my 1More EO320.
Thanks.
I have Memt T5, this hybrid shape is great for me, but they are dark too, but bass and mids are very good for me.


----------



## waynes world

cqtek said:


> Ahhh @waynes world, the Svara L 32 are old friends, I never decided on them, because I had read that there was another version, with different impedance, that was better. Do they have good clarity? I do not want them to be as dark as my 1More EO320.
> Thanks.



Excllent clarity imo. Really excellent bass and sub-bass (without being too much or boomy or bleeding into the mids). Highs are forward and excellent but non fatiguing for me. Mids are a slightly further back, but don't seem recessed. Overall seems balanced but not dark or veiled at all. Excellent soundstage and imaging.

Can you tell I like them? Unfortunately I do not know how they compare to the Pro's.


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> @cqtek I just got the Toneking TO200 and it has excellent bass not overpowering as mids and highs are fine. I already had the TO400 but found that the T200 has more bass



I bought mine in the opposite order - got the TO200 first, and was used to the Bass thump - and then bought the TO400s, which sounds good but doesn't have as much thump.
My suspicion is that it's due to the TO200 being ported, and the TO400s appears to be sealed.


----------



## cqtek

waynes world said:


> Excllent clarity imo. Really excellent bass and sub-bass (without being too much or boomy or bleeding into the mids). Highs are forward and excellent but non fatiguing for me. Mids are a slightly further back, but don't seem recessed. Overall seems balanced but not dark or veiled at all. Excellent soundstage and imaging.
> 
> Can you tell I like them? Unfortunately I do not know how they compare to the Pro's.



Wow, I really like what you say about them, I only put a lack in the mids, I like them more forward. But I think you've given me the push to buy them. Thanks again.


----------



## HungryPanda

The Svara L is an excellent earbud


----------



## HungryPanda

Testing the TO200 with this old favourite


----------



## cqtek

Testing bass with 1More EO320, QianYun Qian39, Z & W Panda PK2s DQSM, NiceHCK PK1 MX500 and Fengru DIY PK2 vs Seahf AWK-F150C with Ioan Gamboa:


----------



## waynes world

cqtek said:


> Testing bass with 1More EO320, QianYun Qian39, Z & W Panda PK2s DQSM, NiceHCK PK1 MX500 and Fengru DIY PK2 vs Seahf AWK-F150C with Ioan Gamboa:




Whoa - thanks! That was quite the trip with the Svara's! (I don't think that you'd be disappointed).

Btw I love the 1More triple driver over ears, and just got tripped out over your video again with them lol. But I didn't know about the 1More EO320's earbuds. How do you like them? You say they are dark?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 17, 2018)

cqtek said:


> Testing bass with 1More EO320, QianYun Qian39, Z & W Panda PK2s DQSM, NiceHCK PK1 MX500 and Fengru DIY PK2 vs Seahf AWK-F150C with Ioan Gamboa:



So far the only earbud in PK shell I’ve heard to have respectable bass is the shozy BK. But the rest of the signature isn’t ideal for EDM without significant EQ.

I suggest you get an mx500 shell earbud and sand down the sides 

I think I’m gonna do it with my MK2 as it doesn’t need a perfect seal for bass I wanna use different foams on it like multi hole full foam, without having massive-bloated bass with a tight seal.


----------



## cqtek (Jul 17, 2018)

waynes world said:


> Whoa - thanks! That was quite the trip with the Svara's! (I don't think that you'd be disappointed).
> 
> Btw I love the 1More triple driver over ears, and just got tripped out over your video again with them lol. But I didn't know about the 1More EO320's earbuds. How do you like them? You say they are dark?



IMO 1More EO320 are so warm and dark, the treble is cut out, that takes away detail. It reminds me a bit of the Qian39 but without having the voices highlighted. Analog sounds, like connected in a valve amp.
It's fine for some occasions. But I need more clarity, separation, detail, soundstage.


----------



## waynes world

cqtek said:


> IMO 1More EO320 are so warm and dark, the treble is cut out, that takes away detail. It reminds me a bit of the Qian39 but without having the voices highlighted. Analog sounds, like connected in a valve amp.
> It's fine for some occasions. But I need more clarity, separation, detail, soundstage.



Gotcha, thanks.


----------



## HungryPanda

We have better earbuds waynes world


----------



## DBaldock9

cqtek said:


> Testing bass with 1More EO320, QianYun Qian39, Z & W Panda PK2s DQSM, NiceHCK PK1 MX500 and Fengru DIY PK2 vs Seahf AWK-F150C with Ioan Gamboa:




Here's a (mostly) percussion mix, that will also highlight the Bass response of your earbuds -


----------



## rkw

cqtek said:


> IMO 1More EO320 are so warm and dark, the treble is cut out, that takes away detail.


I have the EO320, and that's a great description. Its sound is bottom heavy and bloated.


----------



## chinmie

All willsound!
Upper row: MX32, PK16, PK32 with new white/grey? Vent filter version (all loaners from Willy) 
Lower row: MK300 with 8 braided silver cable, MK300 standard with balanced jack, and PK32 with black vent filter (all mine )


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> All willsound!
> Upper row: MX32, PK16, PK32 with new white/grey? Vent filter version (all loaners from Willy)
> Lower row: MK300 with 8 braided silver cable, MK300 standard with balanced jack, and PK32 with black vent filter (all mine )



Wow, two MK300s and two PK32s, I can take one off you if you like 
In all seriousness, how do they all compare to one another and the other Willsound earbuds?
Is the MX32 also a Willsound earbud?


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> Wow, two MK300s and two PK32s, I can take one off you if you like
> In all seriousness, how do they all compare to one another and the other Willsound earbuds?
> Is the MX32 also a Willsound earbud?



only the three below are actually mine though, the upper rows are loaners, so that's two MK300 and one PK32 

the newer PK32 with white filters have more powerful bass, while the old one is more linear (other aspects more or less the same). 
PK16 is good, nice tuning, similar to the PK32 and easier to drive. the PK32 have a bit more smoother and resolving treble,while the PK16 treble is slightly more rough. 
MK300, well, to me this is just tuned right. right amount of bass, mids, treble  everything that i can't really complain. this is personal taste, mind you. this is a really good all arounder for me (enough for me to buy two of them)
MX32 is a bit V Shaped, powerful bass and treble, also the mid sounds nicely separated from the other spectrum. not my cup of tea though


----------



## 40760

Just received the Shozy XB this evening and it's already problematic out of the box...

The cable at the plug area has already oxidised quite badly and I foresee the rest of the cable turning green soon. Sound wise only took a short listen and it's nothing to shout about. A tad too boomy and warm for my tastes, but maybe I'm just spoilt by my Willsound collection.

The oxidisation will make it a pain for me to try and sell it off in the future, so I'm currently negotiating with the seller to try and top up the difference and exchange for another higher end earbud...


----------



## subwoof3r

Just received my EBX today !
Was so excited and hyped until I give a quick listen before going back to work and... DAMN ! I feel so unlucky.. 
The "R" (right) driver unit is defective. No bass at all and the sound is definitely not a the same level volume as the other unit (L).
A bit disapointed by this QC, but I'm pretty sure that Jim will arrange that situation.
Difficult to judge SQ from only 1 driver, but it looks to sound very good (I heard some details that I never heard from my WIllsounds until now in one of my favorite tracks!), so it looks very promising! but for now, I will have to put them in the box until a solution arrives


----------



## knudsen

Would anyone know if Auglamour RX-1 with the standard cable is balanceable, that is it has 4 wires going to the jack? Asking as I would need to put a new balanced jack on it myself. And for example the new, cheaper diy Graphene has only 3 wires from the splitter to the jack


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> only the three below are actually mine though, the upper rows are loaners, so that's two MK300 and one PK32
> 
> the newer PK32 with white filters have more powerful bass, while the old one is more linear (other aspects more or less the same).
> PK16 is good, nice tuning, similar to the PK32 and easier to drive. the PK32 have a bit more smoother and resolving treble,while the PK16 treble is slightly more rough.
> ...


Nice, the new pk32 has a grey filter over the tuning foam yeah. Also you may have noticed the foams are different than original pk32 full foam. More like a cottony texture than pourous sponge-foam.

This level of bass I consider enough to balance the sound, any less is bass light in my books so it's a worthy improvement.


----------



## 40760

subwoof3r said:


> Just received my EBX today !
> Was so excited and hyped until I give a quick listen before going back to work and... DAMN ! I feel so unlucky..
> The "R" (right) driver unit is defective. No bass at all and the sound is definitely not a the same level volume as the other unit (L).
> A bit disapointed by this QC, but I'm pretty sure that Jim will arrange that situation.
> Difficult to judge SQ from only 1 driver, but it looks to sound very good (I heard some details that I never heard from my WIllsounds until now in one of my favorite tracks!), so it looks very promising! but for now, I will have to put them in the box until a solution arrives



Either we're both just unlucky, or Chinese earbuds QC are just lacking these days...


----------



## HungryPanda

subwoof3r said:


> Just received my EBX today !
> Was so excited and hyped until I give a quick listen before going back to work and... DAMN ! I feel so unlucky..
> The "R" (right) driver unit is defective. No bass at all and the sound is definitely not a the same level volume as the other unit (L).
> A bit disapointed by this QC, but I'm pretty sure that Jim will arrange that situation.
> Difficult to judge SQ from only 1 driver, but it looks to sound very good (I heard some details that I never heard from my WIllsounds until now in one of my favorite tracks!), so it looks very promising! but for now, I will have to put them in the box until a solution arrives


 That is a shame but Jim is a great guy I'm sure he will sort you out


----------



## redkingjoe

Got my Svara L Pro finally. 

Beautiful! The sound seems to benefit from the dual diaphragm.

Very beautiful cable. Start burning in immediately! 

How long should I burn this boy for critical listening?


----------



## mochill

redkingjoe said:


> Got my Svara L Pro finally.
> 
> Beautiful! The sound seems to benefit from the dual diaphragm.
> 
> ...


200hrs minimum


----------



## seanc6441

mochill said:


> 200hrs minimum


That's the regular L version... Pro version is minimum 1000 hours.


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> That's the regular L version... Pro version is minimum 1000 hours.



I hope you are joking!


----------



## seanc6441

Anyone here got a defective Cygnus? (One driver only)

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wtb-faulty-defective-shozy-cygnus.884467/

Deciding to give this modded DIY PK2 to my dad as he doesn't have a good pair of earbuds. He likes green


----------



## DBaldock9 (Jul 18, 2018)

toear said:


> Of that bunch, what is your one pick if bass extension /impact is a concern?
> 
> Thx!





HungryPanda said:


> That would be the NiceHCK EBX



While I don't _need_ another set of MMCX earbuds, when I was ordering some other items from AliExpress last night, a set of EBX sneaked into my cart...


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> I hope you are joking!


No I find natural listening a more pure form of burn in so he needs to listen non stop for a few weeks


----------



## cqtek

What are the differences between Svara L and Svara L Pro? Apart from the impedance, of course.

I can't understand these differences:


----------



## waynes world

mochill said:


> 200hrs minimum



Ha ha you've always been "burn in crazy" mochill! These aren't carbon nanotube drivers you know!



redkingjoe said:


> Got my Svara L Pro finally.
> 
> Beautiful! The sound seems to benefit from the dual diaphragm.
> 
> ...



I'm not sure about the Pro's, but the Svara L's seemed to nicely settled after 30 hours or so (bass tightens, highs settled).

Fwiw, I use donuts with the L's and wear them over ears. Just the right amount of bass and balance for me. But it I want a more bass, I will wear them down, and for yet more bass, I'll use full foams.


----------



## Carrow

As well as the Samsara set, I also have a pair of Crescent Moonbuds on their way :3 Made by Moon Harvester on FB!


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

redkingjoe said:


> Got my Svara L Pro finally.
> 
> Beautiful! The sound seems to benefit from the dual diaphragm.
> 
> ...




Impression please, MUST KNOW...


----------



## silverfishla

mbwilson111 said:


> I hope you are joking!


Yup, he was joking...it’s actually 10,000 hrs.
I don’t think (pretty sure) I haven’t run any of my earbuds for 1000 hours.  The only way I could even tell the differences between a bud at 1 hr and a 1000 is if I had two of the same ones and compared them.  My memory isn’t good enough to make a comparison of a bud a month later after burning something in 24/7 for a month.


----------



## mochill

waynes world said:


> Ha ha you've always been "burn in crazy" mochill! These aren't carbon nanotube drivers you know!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


200hrs is a low number, now if it was carbon nanotube I would say 1000hrs


----------



## chinmie (Jul 18, 2018)

mochill said:


> 200hrs is a low number, now if it was carbon nanotube I would say 1000hrs



1000 hours? hold my beer.. this will only take a second 



Spoiler












i personally would only put special time for burn in if i don't like the initial sound. if i like them from the start, i just as well listen to them (and lost track on how many hours/days i had listened to them)


----------



## Danneq (Jul 18, 2018)

Still in Japan (over 1 month left before we go back to Sweden). I managed to find a pair of second hand Moondrop Liebesleid on Yahoo auction and snagged them. I didn't plan to spend to much on audio stuff in Japan this time but already have spent close to 80 000 yen (Onkyo DP S1 DAP, Cypherus Zoomfred & Moondrop Liebsleid).

Clarity is where the Liebsleid really shines. Quite amazing. The soundstage is less wide and deep than on Zoomfred, and also less 3D (I'd say that Zoomfred is among the best sub $300 when it comes to soundstage). But while Zoomfred's upper mids and highs are slightly rolled off (or what you can call it on a pair of earbuds) they are quite forward on the Liebsleid. While I prefer Zoomfred overall Liebesleid is a definite keeper. The soundstage is smaller than on Rose Mojito but the highs are less piercing, so the Liebsleid can be my go to analytical buds. I've mainly brought metal music to Japan and Liebsleid doesn't work that well with metal. Rock, pop, acoustic might work better with them.

Will have to compare Zoomfred & Liebsleid to my other TOTL buds (CAX Red Dragon, ABnormal Diomnes LV2, Blox TM7, Sennheiser OMX980, Campfred 2 & Shozy BK/Stardust) when I get back home. Still have to say that Zoomfred has got a real headphone feel. The soundstage is well outside your head. The treble is pleasant and detailed despite being slightly subdued. Switching directly from Liebesleid (which have a more earbud type of soundstage) ZF might seem less detailed at first but it is there. Instruments just don't "pop out" like on Liebesleid.
And bass on ZF really is headphone type of bass. Nowhere near bloated but instead quite deep and well textured. Bass is dialled up slightly too much on ZF for me. I would have prefered it a bit more neutral.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Nice, the new pk32 has a grey filter over the tuning foam yeah. Also you may have noticed the foams are different than original pk32 full foam. More like a cottony texture than pourous sponge-foam.
> 
> This level of bass I consider enough to balance the sound, any less is bass light in my books so it's a worthy improvement.



I put the same Hiegi full foams on both the PK32 from the moment it arrives, and the same thin foams on both the MK300

The more playing time the PK32 get, the more linear the bass will be. It won't have less amount, but the punch will be less exaggerated and more natural (in a good way). Also the soundstage will be more coherent in the centerfield, whereas initially it sounded wide, but a bit empty in the centerfield. 

I've been burning the grey filter nonstop for a few days, and the more similar the sound. It's still slightly different, but reaally minimal. I think the grey one still have a maturing time to go. Now it's in the phase when the bass seems have lower amount than initially (even compared to the black one). But from my experience with the black one, it also undergo the same phase, and now it retains the big bass it initially had


----------



## ballog

knudsen said:


> Would anyone know if Auglamour RX-1 with the standard cable is balanceable, that is it has 4 wires going to the jack? Asking as I would need to put a new balanced jack on it myself. And for example the new, cheaper diy Graphene has only 3 wires from the splitter to the jack


@knudsen  No the RX-1 has 3 wire from splitter to jack. But anyway the cable isn't worth modding. It looks quite nice from the outside but the internal wires are quite thin. Also I'm from a country with high humidity and the cable started decaying and became sticky pretty quick. I have since recabled my pair with the silver cable from the EMX500 earbuds and this has been quite a revelation. I don't recollect anyone mentioning recabling the RX-1 but I can vouch that this is must. With the silver cable there been a very noticeable increase in sound quality (a confirmation of the excellent drivers in the RX-1 - which many here have been mentioning). The RX-1 are very easy to open up for recabling (basically the drivers just snap on - with just some light glue). The cable entry point may need to be widened a bit (with a metal bit for example - easily by hand).


----------



## 40760

Just mailed back the Shozy XB earlier today... Once the seller receives it, they're going to exchange for a BS1 with top up...


----------



## knudsen

Thanks a lot  Very interesting. I've stopped recabling, with most mx500 I just had too high failure rates for it to be fun. But that sounds like a nice project - do you find the sound tilting even more to bright with the silver cable? 



ballog said:


> @knudsen  No the RX-1 has 3 wire from splitter to jack. But anyway the cable isn't worth modding. It looks quite nice from the outside but the internal wires are quite thin. Also I'm from a country with high humidity and the cable started decaying and became sticky pretty quick. I have since recabled my pair with the silver cable from the EMX500 earbuds and this has been quite a revelation. I don't recollect anyone mentioning recabling the RX-1 but I can vouch that this is must. With the silver cable there been a very noticeable increase in sound quality (a confirmation of the excellent drivers in the RX-1 - which many here have been mentioning). The RX-1 are very easy to open up for recabling (basically the drivers just snap on - with just some light glue). The cable entry point may need to be widened a bit (with a metal bit for example - easily by hand).


----------



## kurtextrem

So, these days I've replaced worn out cheap Ali donuts with the Monk+ "strong" donuts... suddenly my TO400s has more bass than before, lol


----------



## DAndrew

kurtextrem said:


> So, these days I've replaced worn out cheap Ali donuts with the Monk+ "strong" donuts... suddenly my TO400s has more bass than before, lol



Yeah, the quality of VE foams are on a whole other level, if anyone finds something as good or better please post them here


----------



## DAndrew

Danneq said:


> Still in Japan (over 1 month left before we go back to Sweden). I managed to find a pair of second hand Moondrop Liebesleid on Yahoo auction and snagged them. I didn't plan to spend to much on audio stuff in Japan this time but already have spent close to 80 000 yen (Onkyo DP S1 DAP, Cypherus Zoomfred & Moondrop Liebsleid).
> 
> Clarity is where the Liebsleid really shines. Quite amazing. The soundstage is less wide and deep than on Zoomfred, and also less 3D (I'd say that Zoomfred is among the best sub $300 when it comes to soundstage). But while Zoomfred's upper mids and highs are slightly rolled off (or what you can call it on a pair of earbuds) they are quite forward on the Liebsleid. While I prefer Zoomfred overall Liebesleid is a definite keeper. The soundstage is smaller than on Rose Mojito but the highs are less piercing, so the Liebsleid can be my go to analytical buds. I've mainly brought metal music to Japan and Liebsleid doesn't work that well with metal. Rock, pop, acoustic might work better with them.
> 
> ...



How is the bass and comfort on the Liebesleid? Is it more comfortable than the  ZoomFred?


----------



## Danneq

DAndrew said:


> How is the bass and comfort on the Liebesleid? Is it more comfortable than the  ZoomFred?



Zoomfred uses standard MX500 housing, which I think, can hold 15mm drivers, while Liebsleid has got slightly smaller circumference and smaller drivers (something like 13,5 mm or close to that). The housing is pretty heavy since it's made from metal. The Y-splitter is also pretty heavy. If you prefer smaller housing, Liebsleid might be a better choice than ZF. But they are very different in sound. The bass in Liebesleid has got good texture but not much impact. There's practically no sub bass at all. I would EQ lower frequencies a bit to get a little bit more bass presence, but I'll mainly use Liebsleid with music that doesn't rely that much on bass.

Since they are so very different from each other in presentation I see them as good alternatives when you want different flavors from TOTL earbuds.


----------



## capnjack (Jul 19, 2018)

Carrow said:


> As well as the Samsara set, I also have a pair of Crescent Moonbuds on their way :3 Made by Moon Harvester on FB!


Nice, I hope they arrive quicker than the Uairekko’s that I ordered/paid for on 28/5 that still haven’t arrived!


----------



## mochill

palestofwhite said:


> Just mailed back the Shozy XB earlier today... Once the seller receives it, they're going to exchange for a BS1 with top up...


Why mail it back


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 19, 2018)

@chinmie tried the hiegi full foams on the 32. It sounds good but I prefer the stock cotton-like willsound foams slightly more in this case. Willy picked the foams spot on this time, I tried them on other buds and not so great but they are a perfect match for the pk32.

On that note @DAndrew I definitely recommend hiegi full foams as the best quality alternative to VE foams.

In most cases VE donuts>Hiegi Donuts but Hiegi Fulls>VE fulls. Both afford a certain space to the music that's nice in many earbuds thanks to their thickness.

Of course other earbuds do better with regular foams but I always try the VE donuts, Hiegi fulls and Aliexpress thins on all new earbuds because they've had the best results for me in the past.


----------



## 40760 (Jul 19, 2018)

mochill said:


> Why mail it back



Cables arrived oxidised around the plug area out of the box... something that's not acceptable in my books for a brand new item...


----------



## seanc6441

kurtextrem said:


> So, these days I've replaced worn out cheap Ali donuts with the Monk+ "strong" donuts... suddenly my TO400s has more bass than before, lol


Same as with my Penon BS1, the VE donuts are being used more and more for me now. They are the most headphone-like sound presentation for buds with fully vented front.


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> Same as with my Penon BS1, the VE donuts are being used more and more for me now. They are the most headphone-like sound presentation for buds with fully vented front.



Good to know because I should very likely be exchanging the Shozy XB for a BS1...


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 19, 2018)

palestofwhite said:


> Good to know because I should very likely be exchanging the Shozy XB for a BS1...


I meant the foams make most fully vented buds sound more full and with better space in depth, including the bs1 

If you do get the BS1 please consider all opinions and beware of the fit/cable. I still like them for their warm bass and brighter-super clean mids/treble. But I cannot wear them for over 30 minutes at a time because the cable weight and fit cause fatigue.


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> I meant the foams make most fully vented buds sound more full and with better space in depth, including the bs1
> 
> If you do get the BS1 please consider all opinions and beware of the fit/cable. I still like them for their warm bass and brighter-super clean mids/treble. But I cannot wear them for over 30 minutes at a time because the cable weight and fit cause fatigue.



The BS1 seems to be the obvious choice from the seller as the other earbuds don't really excite me...  

I'll take note of the weight but my ears a big so the shell size doesn't really matter to me...


----------



## seanc6441

palestofwhite said:


> The BS1 seems to be the obvious choice from the seller as the other earbuds don't really excite me...
> 
> I'll take note of the weight but my ears a big so the shell size doesn't really matter to me...


Well it's perfect for big ears with ve donuts 

My ears are average size but I needed to shave the shell down a bit. BS1 should come with an earhook system like the creative aurvana air then the cable would be no issue


----------



## 40760 (Jul 19, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Well it's perfect for big ears with ve donuts
> 
> My ears are average size but I needed to shave the shell down a bit. BS1 should come with an earhook system like the creative aurvana air then the cable would be no issue



Fit and weight issues aside, how would you rate the BS1 in terms of sound? Will you consider them TOTL?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 19, 2018)

palestofwhite said:


> Fit and weight issues aside, how would you rate the BS1 in terms of sound? Will you consider them TOTL?


It's just quite unique. You stick the donuts on it and put them on and you are somewhat isolated like a semi closed back with two intimate 'bubbles' of soundstage on each ear. So while the staging isn't huge, imaging is dead precise within that space and the separation is really clean. It's definitely worth owning for it's sound sig because it's just different than all my other earbuds except maybe my K's Ling has a similar effect but definitely not quite the same.

It's TOTL or best qualities for me are

- Imaging
- smooth sound sig (bright but not peaky)
- Detail (up there around Rose Masya and Shozy BK level) although buds like willsound collection are so good detail wise it's not much of a difference.

For stuff like bass extension and soundstage size it's not TOTL but it's not terrible either. Just average in those regards I'd say.


----------



## seanc6441

palestofwhite said:


> Fit and weight issues aside, how would you rate the BS1 in terms of sound? Will you consider them TOTL?


It's a bit like the pk32 in bass, separation too. More precise imaging but slightly less width. Brighter from mids to treble, more extended treble. If that helps.


----------



## DAndrew

Danneq said:


> Zoomfred uses standard MX500 housing, which I think, can hold 15mm drivers, while Liebsleid has got slightly smaller circumference and smaller drivers (something like 13,5 mm or close to that). The housing is pretty heavy since it's made from metal. The Y-splitter is also pretty heavy. If you prefer smaller housing, Liebsleid might be a better choice than ZF. But they are very different in sound. The bass in Liebesleid has got good texture but not much impact. There's practically no sub bass at all. I would EQ lower frequencies a bit to get a little bit more bass presence, but I'll mainly use Liebsleid with music that doesn't rely that much on bass.
> 
> Since they are so very different from each other in presentation I see them as good alternatives when you want different flavors from TOTL earbuds.



Thank you for the info, now I know for sure the ZoomFred will be my next purchase


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> @chinmie tried the hiegi full foams on the 32. It sounds good but I prefer the stock cotton-like willsound foams slightly more in this case. Willy picked the foams spot on this time, I tried them on other buds and not so great but they are a perfect match for the pk32.
> 
> On that note @DAndrew I definitely recommend hiegi full foams as the best quality alternative to VE foams.
> 
> ...



Thanks, i will buy some hiegis as well to test them, meanwhile I will try to diy some foams from different materials and see what results I get


----------



## seanc6441

DAndrew said:


> Thanks, i will buy some hiegis as well to test them, meanwhile I will try to diy some foams from different materials and see what results I get


Post pics if you do make them, interesting to see what other materials can be used!


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> Post pics if you do make them, interesting to see what other materials can be used!



I will when i am happy with the results, i have a lot of materials in mind but not time on hands to experiment lol


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> It's a bit like the pk32 in bass, separation too. More precise imaging but slightly less width. Brighter from mids to treble, more extended treble. If that helps.



Sounds good! Not like I have much choice though but the BS1 is probably the best choice for the exchange... 

I hope I'll like it, as it'll be the most expensive earbuds I own if I go that route...


----------



## seanc6441

palestofwhite said:


> Sounds good! Not like I have much choice though but the BS1 is probably the best choice for the exchange...
> 
> I hope I'll like it, as it'll be the most expensive earbuds I own if I go that route...



Hope so too, the wooden box and other accessories are really premium also, what is your source player for earbuds? Or do you rotate?


----------



## 40760 (Jul 19, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Hope so too, the wooden box and other accessories are really premium also, what is your source player for earbuds? Or do you rotate?



I only listen with a Chord Mojo fed through optical from MacBook Pro. I hardly listen to anything anymore when I'm out and about. So usage will be pretty desk bound...

If you meant main earbuds... then it'll be the PK32 as it's the one that's burning in...

The most expensive earbuds I have now is the Asura 2.0s but it's been kept in the case since I had the Willsounds...


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 19, 2018)

palestofwhite said:


> I only listen with a Chord Mojo fed through optical from MacBook Pro. I hardly listen to anything anymore when I'm out and about. So usage will be pretty desk bound...
> 
> If you meant main earbuds... then it'll be the PK32 as it's the one that's burning in...
> 
> The most expensive earbuds I have now is the Asura 2.0s but it's been kept in the case since I had the Willsounds...


Nice! I found them to sound excellent out of my Hiby R6, maybe the 10 ohm OI was adding a low end tilt or just the slight emphasis on sub bass that dap was producing but it was the best synergy of all my buds. Hopefully your mojo will be similar.

Whereas most of my other buds perform best with my V20 which is kinda brighter and tighter bass, even if I have to add sub bass by EQ the V20 never lets me down 


I'm really enjoying the PK32 for the SQ and comfort if I'm on the go. But actually sitting down with the cable 50% on a desk I can appreciate the BS1's nuances without the ill effects of the weight and in that situation I'd grab the BS1 more often for it's sweet sweet tonality. It's kinda refreshing for a bright earbud to not sound sibilant or harsh and shows excellent tuning from Penon.

Yes you have to live with a little 'glare' in the upper mids but it's a nice change from the usual slightly low mid or neutral tuned willsounds. Female vocals and strings just pop so much.

You'll understand once you listen


----------



## RuFrost

seanc6441 said:


> I'm really enjoying the PK32 for the SQ and comfort if I'm on the go. But actually sitting down with the cable 50% on a desk I can appreciate the BS1's nuances without the ill effects of the weight and in that situation I'd grab the BS1 more often for it's sweet sweet tonality. It's kinda refreshing for a bright earbud to not sound sibilant or harsh and shows excellent tuning from Penon.


How would you compare Masya and bs1 official? Do they have the same sound signature? Do they have similar sound representation? What would you choose if you are to stay with only one earbuds between them?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 19, 2018)

RuFrost said:


> How would you compare Masya and bs1 official? Do they have the same sound signature? Do they have similar sound representation? What would you choose if you are to stay with only one earbuds between them?


With stock foam masya is nothing special to my ears. It's overly warm in the bass and it's shallow in the low mids, peaky in the treble, and hence is very foam picky...Because once I stick on hiegi/thick full foam with multi hole foam it's like a completely different earbud. It's tight and punchy in the bass, very clean sweet mids with enough weight to carry the eurphoric-sweet vocals but always light and delicate. Treble is airy and sparkles like the BS1.

Gun to mouth I'd take the masya, it's got this effortless airy sound and the low end is so snappy. It's pretty phenomenal with the right setup if you like the lighter, delicate signature, but with punch in the bass.

It's also pretty out there on the imaging, which gains depth like all buds do with the multi hole foam. It's less crazy than the bs1 for precision, but it is still accurate and way more airy and reaching out far. Somewhere in between shozy bk and bs1 imaging styles.

But it's like 60% masya 40% BS1 and my choice is factoring in the comfort-fit. SQ wise it's just personal preference because both are equal quality but the Masya is so airy I just love it.

Masya has become my joint favorite earbud along with EQ'd Ling. Second is Mojito, BS1 and BK.

And the more I play with foams etc the more I realise the difference between the $250 earbuds and the $100 earbuds is less important than the tuning with foams and the synergy with the source...


----------



## seanc6441

RuFrost said:


> How would you compare Masya and bs1 official? Do they have the same sound signature? Do they have similar sound representation? What would you choose if you are to stay with only one earbuds between them?





 
Left side is regular white full foam with multi hole, right is hiegi foam with multi hole. Somewhere in between this sounds best, I will try make hiegi full foam with bigger holes like on the white foam.

Both sound far better than stock foam, everything improves on all levels...


----------



## handwander

Lee says $1000+ usd buds coming from VE


----------



## mochill

palestofwhite said:


> Sounds good! Not like I have much choice though but the BS1 is probably the best choice for the exchange...
> 
> I hope I'll like it, as it'll be the most expensive earbuds I own if I go that route...


You should've listened to the xb friend before returning it, I have the cygnus which is fully oxidized and beautiful with no negative impact on sound. But talking about the xb, I'll be ordering it next week B-) as well as the hibiki mkii


----------



## dheepak10 (Jul 20, 2018)

Moonbuds - Bunting (Yuin) and Crescent (MX500) along with WillSound MX32 final (Red) and prototype (Blue).
All in a day!


----------



## 40760

mochill said:


> You should've listened to the xb friend before returning it, I have the cygnus which is fully oxidized and beautiful with no negative impact on sound. But talking about the xb, I'll be ordering it next week B-) as well as the hibiki mkii



I’ve tried it but I didn’t like it...


----------



## mochill

palestofwhite said:


> I’ve tried it but I didn’t like it...


Why


----------



## 40760

mochill said:


> Why



Sound signature is a tad too boomy and warm for my tastes...


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> Nice! I found them to sound excellent out of my Hiby R6, maybe the 10 ohm OI was adding a low end tilt or just the slight emphasis on sub bass that dap was producing but it was the best synergy of all my buds. Hopefully your mojo will be similar.
> 
> Whereas most of my other buds perform best with my V20 which is kinda brighter and tighter bass, even if I have to add sub bass by EQ the V20 never lets me down
> 
> ...



I didn't know the seller carries the Shozy BK as well... Should I go that route, the top up will be higher, but do you think it's worth it over the BS1?

Since you have both the BK and BS1, I'd like to hear a comparison from you!


----------



## chinmie

palestofwhite said:


> Sound signature is a tad too boomy and warm for my tastes...



Is it midbass heavy rather than subbass?


----------



## subwoof3r

dheepak10 said:


>


Very nice attention, love it!


----------



## 40760

chinmie said:


> Is it midbass heavy rather than subbass?



I’m not good at describing what I hear but it’s a thick and muddy sound to me... but to be fair it’s not burn in yet and I only listened for a few short minutes...


----------



## mochill

palestofwhite said:


> Sound signature is a tad too boomy and warm for my tastes...


Perfect


----------



## 40760

mochill said:


> Perfect



But then again it might suit you! 

I think to me I have more of an issue with the oxidising cables... that’s a big NO NO for me...


----------



## golov17

palestofwhite said:


> But I think to me I have more of an issue with the oxidising cables... that’s a big NO NO for me...


 i like green ))


----------



## 40760

golov17 said:


> i like green ))



PK shells are the best...


----------



## mochill

I like green too :-D


----------



## RobinFood

Danneq said:


> Still in Japan (over 1 month left before we go back to Sweden). I managed to find a pair of second hand Moondrop Liebesleid on Yahoo auction and snagged them. I didn't plan to spend to much on audio stuff in Japan this time but already have spent close to 80 000 yen (Onkyo DP S1 DAP, Cypherus Zoomfred & Moondrop Liebsleid).
> 
> Clarity is where the Liebsleid really shines. Quite amazing. The soundstage is less wide and deep than on Zoomfred, and also less 3D (I'd say that Zoomfred is among the best sub $300 when it comes to soundstage). But while Zoomfred's upper mids and highs are slightly rolled off (or what you can call it on a pair of earbuds) they are quite forward on the Liebsleid. While I prefer Zoomfred overall Liebesleid is a definite keeper. The soundstage is smaller than on Rose Mojito but the highs are less piercing, so the Liebsleid can be my go to analytical buds. I've mainly brought metal music to Japan and Liebsleid doesn't work that well with metal. Rock, pop, acoustic might work better with them.
> 
> ...



Is CAX based in Japan? I have been living in Japan for the last 6 years around Osaka, and never saw any CAX earbuds for sale.

I've been eyeing the Liebeslied for a while, but could never bring myself to spend that much on something I can't try out first, and I almost never go to Tokyo...love the box though. 
One day!
Weird question, but would you say they still sound like dynamic drivers? 
After using BA for a while, I can't help but feel dynamics have a weird fuzz to the sound, and some instruments fade out instead of sound smaller...


----------



## seanc6441

palestofwhite said:


> I didn't know the seller carries the Shozy BK as well... Should I go that route, the top up will be higher, but do you think it's worth it over the BS1?
> 
> Since you have both the BK and BS1, I'd like to hear a comparison from you!


 The seller also carries the Rose Masya! Does that earbud interest you also?

BTW about oxidisation my BS1 is slowly falling the victim to it also! I’ve started to see green strands in the cable.

I’ll compare bk and bs1 or bk/bs1/masya depends on which you are interested in.


----------



## 40760 (Jul 20, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> The seller also carries the Rose Masya! Does that earbud interest you also?
> 
> BTW about oxidisation my BS1 is slowly falling the victim to it also! I’ve started to see green strands in the cable.
> 
> I’ll compare bk and bs1 or bk/bs1/masya depends on which you are interested in.



Will be helpful if you can compare BS, BK and Masya. Right now the BK seems to be safest because I know for sure the fit will be good!

I'm open to options and I think Astrotec Lyra Classic is available from the same seller too...


----------



## mochill

If you don't want to see the green cable then get a black cable earbud


----------



## mbwilson111

mochill said:


> If you don't want to see the green cable then get a black cable earbud



...or red, blue , grey... or, are there cables that already have  normal green color?

I want a purple cable!


----------



## jogawag (Jul 20, 2018)

palestofwhite said:


> Will be helpful if you can compare BS, BK and Masya. Right now the BK seems to be safest because I know for sure the fit will be good!
> 
> I'm open to options and I think Astrotec Lyra Classic is available from the same seller too...


If you live in the USA, I strongly recommend that you try the following Docomo Earbuds ("Black Version 1").

https://www.amazon.com/Hoared-Earphone-Earplugs-Headset-Version/dp/B074KXBV6X

It has the same sound quality as Shozy Cygnus, but at about 35 usd, and the cable never turn green.
It need 100 hour to burn-in.


----------



## 40760

jogawag said:


> If you live in the USA, I strongly recommend that you try the following Docomo Earbuds ("Black Version 1").
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Hoared-Earphone-Earplugs-Headset-Version/dp/B074KXBV6X
> 
> ...



Looks good! But unfortunately I don't live in the states...


----------



## jogawag

palestofwhite said:


> Looks good! But unfortunately I don't live in the states...


When ordering from my country, System will refuse me at the last stage saying "you can not send to your country".
If System does not refuse you, I think you can purchase it.


----------



## TVeye (Jul 20, 2018)

I've received my MK2 (balanced 3.5mm).
The sound is glorious,I wasn't expect so good definition and great bass at that price range.
Willy is a genious!


----------



## lukaspn

Hi everyone. I've just got a willsound mk2 2 days ago. It sounds great but the right side is louder than the left one. I tried to switch sides, changed the source but the right side is still louder.
Does anyone know how to fix this? Do I have to return it to the seller?
Thanks for your help.


----------



## DBaldock9

mbwilson111 said:


> ...or red, blue , grey... or, are there cables that already have  normal green color?
> 
> I want a purple cable!



Here's a mostly purple cable I was braiding previously.
I need to get back to work on it, finishing the braiding, and installing the earbuds.
The wire came from Puland Electron Store, on AliExpress - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/30A...e-7-Strands-Color-Selectable/32612403098.html
4-Strands will fit in a PK style shell.


----------



## WillSound

lukaspn said:


> Hi everyone. I've just got a willsound mk2 2 days ago. It sounds great but the right side is louder than the left one. I tried to switch sides, changed the source but the right side is still louder.
> Does anyone know how to fix this? Do I have to return it to the seller?
> Thanks for your help.


try to tap back housing gently with finger until sound balance. if got rettle or buzzing try to suck driver while play some music. if still not working just send to me and i will fix it. thanks


----------



## lukaspn

WillSound said:


> try to tap back housing gently with finger until sound balance. if got rettle or buzzing try to suck driver while play some music. if still not working just send to me and i will fix it. thanks[/QUO


I'll try this. Thanks for your quick response.


----------



## mbwilson111

DBaldock9 said:


> Here's a mostly purple cable I was braiding previously.
> I need to get back to work on it, finishing the braiding, and installing the earbuds.
> The wire came from Puland Electron Store, on AliExpress - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/30A...e-7-Strands-Color-Selectable/32612403098.html
> 4-Strands will fit in a PK style shell.



Wow that is beautiful.  So much work!  What buds will that be used on?


----------



## DBaldock9

mbwilson111 said:


> Wow that is beautiful.  So much work!  What buds will that be used on?



One or the other of these drivers (I've got 4 pairs of each) will be installed in PK2 shells -
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Car...ne-unit-Bass-good-elasticity/32448930452.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/14-...ymium-magnet-hifi-metal-mesh/32230887418.html


----------



## jant71

jogawag said:


> If you live in the USA, I strongly recommend that you try the following Docomo Earbuds ("Black Version 1").
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Hoared-Earphone-Earplugs-Headset-Version/dp/B074KXBV6X
> 
> ...



Any idea what the new version is like? More bass perhaps? That would be more to my liking and make them interesting.


----------



## seanc6441

jant71 said:


> Any idea what the new version is like? More bass perhaps? That would be more to my liking and make them interesting.


Are these not nicehck diy pk2? Same cable on version 1 and 2 as nicehck.


----------



## jogawag (Jul 20, 2018)

jant71 said:


> Any idea what the new version is like? More bass perhaps? That would be more to my liking and make them interesting.


According to the information I got from Jim at HCK, Docomo Earbuds ("Black Version 1") driver is the best also for Bass.
The Docomo Earbuds ("Black Version 1") cable is different from all the other versions, and it is connected from the middle 4 - pole plug to the 3 - pole extension cable.
So if you change to a 4 pole extension cable and attach a 2.5mm balanced conversion plug to the end, it will be 2.5mm balanced Earbuds.


----------



## Danneq

RobinFood said:


> Is CAX based in Japan? I have been living in Japan for the last 6 years around Osaka, and never saw any CAX earbuds for sale.
> 
> I've been eyeing the Liebeslied for a while, but could never bring myself to spend that much on something I can't try out first, and I almost never go to Tokyo...love the box though.
> One day!
> ...



Cypherus is based in Indonesia but Herry goes to Japan at least once a year to buy audio components. He mainly does that in Akihabara in Tokyo so we met up there in early July. I paid in cash (yen) for my pair of Zoomfred and didn't have to pay for shipping costs and also import taxes and fees to Sweden.

I have never owned a pair of IEMs. Cannot stand to push earphones inside my ear canals unfortunately. My only experience with BA drivers is Dunu Alpha 1. I sort of liked them but felt that the highs didn't sound very natural. Liebesleid and Zoomfred sound VERY different and that shows how versatile DD can be depending on tuning of the drivers, cables used etc.

If you like a detailed and airy sound Liebesleid is definitely recommended. I paid a little over 23 000 yen with handling charges and shipping costs (I used Buyee to buy fron Yahoo auction) and it was definitely worth it. 

I guess you need to get used to BA and DD respectively. If Dunu comes out with a revised Alpha 1 with better fit I might buy them. I sold my Alpha 1 because of the poor fit.


----------



## mochill

jant71 said:


> Any idea what the new version is like? More bass perhaps? That would be more to my liking and make them interesting.


Get the Shozy xb


----------



## mochill

Danneq said:


> Cypherus is based in Indonesia but Herry goes to Japan at least once a year to buy audio components. He mainly does that in Akihabara in Tokyo so we met up there in early July. I paid in cash (yen) for my pair of Zoomfred and didn't have to pay for shipping costs and also import taxes and fees to Sweden.
> 
> I have never owned a pair of IEMs. Cannot stand to push earphones inside my ear canals unfortunately. My only experience with BA drivers is Dunu Alpha 1. I sort of liked them but felt that the highs didn't sound very natural. Liebesleid and Zoomfred sound VERY different and that shows how versatile DD can be depending on tuning of the drivers, cables used etc.
> 
> ...


Sold mine too because of poor fit as well


----------



## 40760 (Jul 21, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> The seller also carries the Rose Masya! Does that earbud interest you also?
> 
> BTW about oxidisation my BS1 is slowly falling the victim to it also! I’ve started to see green strands in the cable.
> 
> I’ll compare bk and bs1 or bk/bs1/masya depends on which you are interested in.



For now it's Shozy BK and Masya... I think a comparison between these 2 will be great!

EDIT: Astrotec Classic and Collection 32ohms looks good too!


----------



## bonson

mochill said:


> Sold mine too because of poor fit as well


Alpha 1 is half price at lendmeurears if only fit was not a issue it could be a bargain


----------



## McCol

Ok folks looking for a bit of advice on where to start with earbuds. As you can see from signature I’m more of an IEM user but fancy dipping my toes into the earbud world.

On the whole I like my sound to be reasonably neutral with maybe a wee emphasis towards smooth vocals and a bit of bass.

Problem is I have no idea where to start and it looks like UK options are non existent.  I’ve been looking at some of the Blur line but other than that nothing else at the minute.
Also if I get a pair that are 150/300ohms I’m assuming that my Mojo and DX200 will drive them sufficiently?

Anybody happy to give me a few ideas where to start?


----------



## DAndrew

McCol said:


> Ok folks looking for a bit of advice on where to start with earbuds. As you can see from signature I’m more of an IEM user but fancy dipping my toes into the earbud world.
> 
> On the whole I like my sound to be reasonably neutral with maybe a wee emphasis towards smooth vocals and a bit of bass.
> 
> ...



The Mojo will drive any pair of earbuds on the market, no exception. As for an earbud it depends on what you are willing to sacrifice, if you want smooth vocals and just a slight touch of bass, the Blurs are a very good start as they are as neutral as you can get. Want bassy earbuds? I personally have the Samsara and it has the best bass one can expect from an earbud imo. If you want a good all rounder that is also detailed, I recommend the ToneKing TO400s


----------



## jant71

mochill said:


> Get the Shozy xb



Yeah those are interesting as well. Actually something that is not the MX housing that has bass enough for out in the real world to counter wind and traffic and ends in the right amount.


----------



## mbwilson111

McCol said:


> Ok folks looking for a bit of advice on where to start with earbuds. As you can see from signature I’m more of an IEM user but fancy dipping my toes into the earbud world.
> 
> On the whole I like my sound to be reasonably neutral with maybe a wee emphasis towards smooth vocals and a bit of bass.
> 
> ...



If you have never worn buds, you might want to start with a couple of inexpensive (but good) buds to see what sort of fit you like.  Many people started with a Monk Plus.   Now there is also the Monk Lite which has a smaller shell for those who cannot fit the Monk (or the many other buds that have that same shell).    You could try both.  If you want to grab something from Amazon UK ,  I love my Edifier H190.  You might also consider the **** PT15 which has a graphene  driver and removable cable (but it is so tight I will never attempt to remove mine unless it fails).

You could have one of the Monks, or the Edifier by tomorrow if you have Prime shipping....or all three...

Many other good and often expensive choices require a long wait from China.  I am currently waiting for a nice wooden bud.


----------



## DAndrew

mbwilson111 said:


> If you have never worn buds, you might want to start with a couple of inexpensive (but good) buds to see what sort of fit you like.  Many people started with a Monk Plus.   Now there is also the Monk Lite which has a smaller shell for those who cannot fit the Monk (or the many other buds that have that same shell).    You could try both.  If you want to grab something from Amazon UK ,  I love my Edifier H190.  You might also consider the **** PT15 which has a graphene  driver and removable cable (but it is so tight I will never attempt to remove mine unless it fails).
> 
> You could have one of the Monks, or the Edifier by tomorrow if you have Prime shipping....or all three...
> 
> Many other good and often expensive choices require a long wait from China.  I am currently waiting for a nice wooden bud.



Great recommendations but keep in mind the Monk+ and Lite have a dark sound signature, and he said he wanted something neutral with great vocals, dont get me wrong the monks are amazing but they do not fit that requirement


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 21, 2018)

McCol said:


> Ok folks looking for a bit of advice on where to start with earbuds. As you can see from signature I’m more of an IEM user but fancy dipping my toes into the earbud world.
> 
> On the whole I like my sound to be reasonably neutral with maybe a wee emphasis towards smooth vocals and a bit of bass.
> 
> ...


I think the Willsound pK32 ($40 + shipping) with hiegi foams ($5) is the way to go. Very smooth neutral mids, smooth and sweet treble that’s airy but definitely not bright.

Bass is there it’s just a little reserved so if you’re not opposed to adding 1-2db of bass boost these things will absolutely sing with just a small amount of boost.

Soundstage is wide and there’s good separation of instruments and vocals.

It’s just all round very impressive for $40 and a good place to start if you want a natural sound with the mids being the highlight.

The stock foams sound excellent and seem to give the best separation but they put a slight veil on the vocals that the hiegi foams do not, so I suggest you try both and see which you prefer!


----------



## mbwilson111

DAndrew said:


> Great recommendations but keep in mind the Monk+ and Lite have a dark sound signature, and he said he wanted something neutral with great vocals, dont get me wrong the monks are amazing but they do not fit that requirement



Mine have great vocals.  You find the Monk Lite dark?  Which one, the 40 ohm or the 120 ohm.


----------



## DAndrew

mbwilson111 said:


> Mine have great vocals.  You find the Monk Lite dark?  Which one, the 40 ohm or the 120 ohm.



Sure the vocals are nice but the monk+ is not quite neutral and in my opinion it is rather muddy compared to something more clear. I have the 40 ohm version of the Lites, I understand that the 120 ohm is better.


----------



## mbwilson111

DAndrew said:


> Sure the vocals are nice but the monk+ is not quite neutral and in my opinion it is rather muddy compared to something more clear. I have the 40 ohm version of the Lites, I understand that the 120 ohm is better.



I have both Monk Lites. I like them both.   I do not find the Monk Plus muddy but I ony suggested it as a starting point because he could get them quickly from Amazon and send them back if he hates them or they don't fit.    Everyone should have one Monk  So many other buds including some expensive ones use the same shell.  Why not at least find out if it is a good fit without spending much?   Personally I had problems at first with the size of the shell but maybe my ears have stretched because now they are ok.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Mine have great vocals.  You find the Monk Lite dark?  Which one, the 40 ohm or the 120 ohm.


Monk lite is more neutral than dark, I think they are confusing the monk plus and Monk lite sigs. Monk plus is definitely darker.

The lites are inoffensive but balanced sounding, definitely more towards neutral than dark/bright.


----------



## DAndrew

mbwilson111 said:


> I have both Monk Lites. I like them both.   I do not find the Monk Plus muddy but I ony suggested it as a starting point because he could get them quickly from Amazon and send them back if he hates them or they don't fit.    Everyone should have one Monk  So many other buds including some expensive ones use the same shell.  Why not at least find out if it is a good fit without spending much?   Personally I had problems at first with the size of the shell but maybe my ears have stretched because now they are ok.



Agreed on that, anyone should get the monks, they are cheap with great sq and you will find out if you like the mx500 shell. I didnt mean that your suggestion was wrong or that he shouldnt start with them, just that imo the monks are not representative of a neutral sound that is fit for vocals. While a lot more expensive, the only bud I consider truly fitting of that profile ( that I have heard ) is one of the Blurs. They are just so good.


----------



## mbwilson111

DAndrew said:


> monks are not representative of a neutral sound that is fit for vocals



Most of my music depends on good vocals... singer/songwriter, americana, blues, blues rock,  folk, folk rock, classic rock... and much much more.    Whenever I use my Monk Plus I end up listening to album after album after album, sometimes accidentally staying up all night (if my husband is away at work).

I think that my personal ear anatomy might make my perceptions different from that of someone else.


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> Monk lite is more neutral than dark, I think they are confusing the monk plus and Monk lite sigs. Monk plus is definitely darker.
> 
> The lites are inoffensive but balanced sounding, definitely more towards neutral than dark/bright.



I was talking about the Monk+ more than the Lite but that might have gotten confused and while the Lite _is_ more neutral than the Monk+, I do not think they are neutral but that they tend to be on the darker side. ( reading you comment again I think I am confusing things, do you mean the Lites are neutral or that they tend to be more neutral than the Monk+ while still being on the darker side )


----------



## DAndrew

mbwilson111 said:


> Most of my music depends on good vocals... singer/songwriter, americana, blues, blues rock,  folk, folk rock, classic rock... and much much more.    Whenever I use my Monk Plus I end up listening to album after album after album, sometimes accidentally staying up all night (if my husband is away at work).
> 
> I think that my personal ear anatomy might make my perceptions different from that of someone else.



Understandable, if I listen to the Monk+ I get used to the sound signature immediately and they seem to be fine for vocals too, I always found their sound signature so mellow(?) and not tiring at all, even with the mx500 shell I could listen to them all day long. But I always compare them to my Blurs and my Sennheiser ( totally unfair, but I use them as a reference of neutral sound, even tho they have that Sennheiser sound with a _slight_ sparkle in the highs )


----------



## mbwilson111

DAndrew said:


> Understandable, if I listen to the Monk+ I get used to the sound signature immediately and they seem to be fine for vocals too, I always found their sound signature so mellow(?) and not tiring at all, even with the mx500 shell I could listen to them all day long. But I always compare them to my Blurs and my Sennheiser ( totally unfair, but I use them as a reference of neutral sound, even tho they have that Sennheiser sound with a _slight_ sparkle in the highs )



That's the thing.  Sometimes I think that we end up overthinking everything and forget to just enjoy the music.  Do we need to compare everything all the time?  I don't want to.


----------



## seanc6441

DAndrew said:


> I was talking about the Monk+ more than the Lite but that might have gotten confused and while the Lite _is_ more neutral than the Monk+, I do not think they are neutral but that they tend to be on the darker side. ( reading you comment again I think I am confusing things, do you mean the Lites are neutral or that they tend to be more neutral than the Monk+ while still being on the darker side )


More neutral, all monks are designed for use with the super thin monk foams or foamless, but comparing monk plus which is dark, monk lite foamless or with thin monk foam is much closer to neutral (although obviously it's not actually neutral) and sounds more balanced. I still don't like the signature though, bass is not the best quality.


----------



## DAndrew

mbwilson111 said:


> That's the thing.  Sometimes I think that we end up overthinking everything and forget to just enjoy the music.  Do we need to compare everything all the time?  I don't want to.



Yeah, I have stopped ranking earbuds or saying this is better than that. Its more like this has x sound signature and this has y sound signature. They all excel at something and have their own unique sound signatures, some more pleasant than the others.

In my opinion its more about what kind of sound signature you prefer and finding the earbud that fits that profile


----------



## seanc6441

DAndrew said:


> Yeah, I have stopped ranking earbuds or saying this is better than that. Its more like this has x sound signature and this has y sound signature. They all excel at something and have their own unique sound signatures, some more pleasant than the others.
> 
> In my opinion its more about what kind of sound signature you prefer and finding the earbud that fits that profile


That's why I'm rotating between Masya, BK, Mojito, Ling, BS1. They all do their unique little things, and even though I'd say they all do 90% of stuff 'right' each has something it excells at over the other.


----------



## mbwilson111

DAndrew said:


> Yeah, I have stopped ranking earbuds or saying this is better than that. Its more like this has x sound signature and this has y sound signature. They all excel at something and have their own unique sound signatures, some more pleasant than the others.
> 
> In my opinion its more about what kind of sound signature you prefer and finding the earbud that fits that profile



...and yet, I adapt to and enjoy various sound signatures.  I will often say that I like this or that bud more than another or that it is less fatiguing.   I am strictly an album listener using music stored on my computer and on the sd cards in my DAPs. That affects my preferences. I tend to use music to relax more than I use it to energize me... depends on the time of day and my mood.   Actually, when I want the music to energize me I really prefer to just use speakers.  If I use the Sonos system that has units in five rooms I can fill the house with music while doing what ever needs doing.  After years and years of living with speakers it has been a bit alien to me to have the sound inside my head.  Sometimes I think maybe buds actually come closer to giving me the feeling that I want more than headphones or iems do.  They certainly are the best choice on these hot days.


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> That's why I'm rotating between Masya, BK, Mojito, Ling, BS1. They all do their unique little things, and even though I'd say they all do 90% of stuff 'right' each has something it excells at over the other.



Of those I have only heard the Maysa.  Love them... but my husband refuses to give me his  I have offered trades...


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 21, 2018)

palestofwhite said:


> For now it's Shozy BK and Masya... I think a comparison between these 2 will be great!
> 
> EDIT: Astrotec Classic and Collection 32ohms looks good too!



Source: V20 (slightly bright leaning, bass is slightly focused on mid bass over sub bass)

Sound sig:

BK:
Neutral-Dark. Dry-analytical tonality.

Emphasis on the low mids. Controlled well rounded bass, full textured mids*, airy treble.*

Intimate-medium size soundstage*, excellent stereo separation and precise imaging. Depth is just average*.

Masya - Neutral-Bright. Musical sweet tonality.

Tight punchy bass with just enough depth, detailed and 'light-delicate' mids and sweet vocals*, extended airy treble.*

Soundstage is medium size with good stereo separation and accurate imaging. Excellent space/air between the notes and good width. Also moderate-good depth*


Note:

 * improves with the custom foams I'm using over the stock variant. All impressions are describing stock foam sound though, so anything mentioned can only get better with foam tweaks.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Of those I have only heard the Maysa.  Love them... but my husband refuses to give me his  I have offered trades...


Once I put the hiegi full foam with multi hole on it... Probably my favorite earbud now especially for cost-performance value.

Really amazing for vocals and natural instrumental, but can handle other genres too.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

mbwilson111 said:


> Of those I have only heard the Maysa.  Love them... but my husband refuses to give me his  I have offered trades...


Operation "Maysa r' Mine!"

Step 1: Covertly snatch Maysa ear buds.
Step 2: When approached: sweetly smile and feign innocence.
Step 3: Then don various vacant looks of disinterest followed by brief displays of ignorance.
Step 4: Repeat Step 2 and 3 a few times while occasionally mumbling to yourself (speaking in strange tongues for good measure).
Step 5: *When and if cornered*, fully bare your fangs and snarl ferociously (a swipe in the air, displaying the fingernails is sometimes a necessary amplifier)

Should work like a charm... my lil' Siamese wife and 22-year old daughter have dun' it to me for years an' I have absolutely nu'thing of value any more that I can call me' own!

Hell my daughter brazenly walks about with the JVC FX750 Woody IEMs in her ears that she illegally acquired from me.


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm onto these plans


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> I'm onto these plans



uh oh

don't worry... how would I ever find them among your trillion cases of iems and buds?  maybe you even have them with you at work... if so, I would be on a wild goose chase.

...going now to count the items in your profile...


----------



## DBaldock9

Trying hard, to stop myself from ordering VE Zoe 2.0 (which comes with a free gift, which is a set of Zen Lite L)...


----------



## knudsen

I don't think you have the guts to buy them...... you're probably too


----------



## mbwilson111

DBaldock9 said:


> Trying hard, to stop myself from ordering VE Zoe 2.0 (which comes with a free gift, which is a set of Zen Lite L)...



Have you forgotten about the Blur and the EBX that you have on order?


----------



## DBaldock9

mbwilson111 said:


> Have you forgotten about the Blur and the EBX that you have on order?



I have a very good memory, it's just quite short...


----------



## Narayan23

mbwilson111 said:


> uh oh
> 
> don't worry... how would I ever find them among your trillion cases of iems and buds?  maybe you even have them with you at work... if so, I would be on a wild goose chase.
> 
> ...*going now to count the items in your profile*...



At the risk of not seeing you for a very very long time if you do that, I would like to send a team of highly skilled counting operatives to aid you in such a cumbersome task. I think 25 people should get the job done in under a week


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> Source: V20 (slightly bright leaning, bass is slightly focused on mid bass over sub bass)
> 
> Sound sig:
> 
> ...



Thank you sir!


----------



## knudsen (Jul 21, 2018)

Guggga said:


> If you guys are looking for some serious bass, my candidate would be the mk1 rev 1. They sound beefier than any other earbud, including the vido and Emx500.
> 
> The best thing about them though is the fantastic imaging and instrument  seperation like thr other willsounds. The Soundstage is enveloping and they sound like headphones. No wonder Bisoy (a member on the EA fb page) has three iterations of them with the Vjc and litz cables.
> 
> Not sure if Willy is making the older versions now though.



Rholupat seems to have them now;
http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone/willsound-mk1-vjc.html

I've ordered a pair, hope they can compete with or better my mk2r2, which I feel continue to improve even after 200 hours. Getting very transparent, excellent buds.

Also hope these mk1's can compete with k's 500, which was otherwise on my list


----------



## Guggga

I have these on the way too  and they should be bassier than the mk2

However, i was referring to the older generation of the mk1 which is a bass canon but now is discontinued by the builder.

Nonetheless, the latest mk1 offers a more balanced sound.


----------



## 40760 (Jul 22, 2018)

I'm getting very drawn in by the Astrotec Lyra series... especially the Collection 32ohms...

The styling and presentation of the metal shell, nice cables and accessories, makes it feel like a worthy piece of equipment...

I have a strong feeling it's going to be my first TOTL earbuds...


----------



## knudsen

I thought the difference between rev1 and rev2 only was the cable, so the vjc-cable version is not based on either. Rholupat also don't mention a "rev". 

Is this wrong, do you know if the drivers also were changed?



Guggga said:


> I have these on the way too  and they should be bassier than the mk2
> 
> However, i was referring to the older generation of the mk1 which is a bass canon but now is discontinued by the builder.
> 
> Nonetheless, the latest mk1 offers a more balanced sound.


----------



## chinmie

knudsen said:


> I thought the difference between rev1 and rev2 only was the cable, so the vjc-cable version is not based on either. Rholupat also don't mention a "rev".
> 
> Is this wrong, do you know if the drivers also were changed?



Not just the cable, but also slight tuning difference on the shell itself. Not much though.


----------



## Guggga (Jul 22, 2018)

knudsen said:


> I thought the difference between rev1 and rev2 only was the cable, so the vjc-cable version is not based on either. Rholupat also don't mention a "rev".
> 
> Is this wrong, do you know if the drivers also were changed?



Theres no "Revs", it was constructed by some of us who owned the earlier mk series to differentiate between the older and newer mks.

The drivers are the ones used on the current mk1, the copper vjc cable is new and looks pleasing to me aesthically. Hopefully it will sound different too !

Adding on, soundwise the newer mks sound cleaner and more articulate than the earlier ones. Progress yayyy!


----------



## mbwilson111

Guggga said:


> Theres no "Revs", it was constructed by some of us who owned the earlier mk series to differentiate between the older and newer mks.
> 
> The drivers are the ones used on the current mk1, the copper vjc cable is new and looks pleasing to me aesthically. Hopefully it will sound different too !
> 
> Adding on, soundwise the newer mks sound cleaner and more articulate than the earlier ones. Progress yayyy!



When I bought mine (red with red cable) it was listed on the Rholupat site as MK1 Rev.2. 

http://www.rholupat.com/willsound-mk1-rev-2.html

Love my red MK1 but that new vjc one also looks great.  I bet you will love it!


----------



## mikedowsett

I've just received my Nicehck EBX earbuds and am very pleased. Beautifully crafted with a very pleasing sound signature (at least for me). They'll be great for when I want to travel light.
You'll see I've added some BudLoks which work perfectly to keep the earbuds in place when I wear them over ear. Had a go on the daughters trampoline and they still didn't fall out!!

Big thanks to everyone posting in this forum as it was a huge help when deciding which earbuds to purchase.


----------



## 40760

Let's say if both earbuds, being exactly the same model, design and make, except one comes in 32ohms and the other 150ohms. What kind of sound change can one expect from the two just from the difference in impedance?


----------



## HungryPanda

I find the higher the ohms the bigger earbuds become more like full size headphones in sound. They need a decent amp to drive them though.


----------



## 40760

HungryPanda said:


> I find the higher the ohms the bigger earbuds become more like full size headphones in sound



I don't really have much experience with higher impedance earphones, but I'm currently deciding between a 32ohm or 150ohm Astrotec Lyra Collection...

Here's my dilemma:
*
32ohms*
+ Cheaper price
+ Easily powered by mobile devices (better to travel with?)
- Might not sound as good as compared to 150ohms when amped

*150ohms*
+ Should sound better with desktop setup (as compared to 32ohms)
+ Highest end model (need not worry about upgrading later)
- Expensive
- Requires amplification to perform

That being said, I'm unsure if I will bring earbuds when commuting or travelling due to the lack of isolation...
Maybe the higher impedance of 150ohm, used with my Chord Mojo and MacBook Pro is a better choice?

Decisions, decisions...


----------



## RobinFood

palestofwhite said:


> I don't really have much experience with higher impedance earphones, but I'm currently deciding between a 32ohm or 150ohm Astrotec Lyra Collection...
> 
> Here's my dilemma:
> *
> ...



The difference more resistance does for the er4 was that it slightly increased the upper mids and treble to give a better sense of clarity and let more details in.

That said, if they are exactly the same except for the ohm rating, another option might be to get the lower resistance one and get a resistor adapter, like the er4p to s converter. UE also makes one, and aliexpress sells a bunch too with different resistance ratings.

That would give you the option of both.


----------



## 40760 (Jul 23, 2018)

RobinFood said:


> The difference more resistance does for the er4 was that it slightly increased the upper mids and treble to give a better sense of clarity and let more details in.
> 
> That said, if they are exactly the same except for the ohm rating, another option might be to get the lower resistance one and get a resistor adapter, like the er4p to s converter. UE also makes one, and aliexpress sells a bunch too with different resistance ratings.
> 
> That would give you the option of both.



I actually bought an impedance adapter (75ohms) to use with one of my earphones... but found that the sound is actually not the same as compared to the original higher ohm version of the same earphones that my friend had. It's very odd because I myself used to own the ER4P with the S adapter... and that didn't alter the sound as compared to an original ER4S...

Could it possible be an earphone vs IEM thing when it comes to using impedance adapters? It could also be that my adapter is faulty, or having a default higher ohm version is better than adding an impedance adapter?

But nonetheless, your suggestion is pretty good and worth considering!


----------



## chinmie

palestofwhite said:


> Let's say if both earbuds, being exactly the same model, design and make, except one comes in 32ohms and the other 150ohms. What kind of sound change can one expect from the two just from the difference in impedance?





RobinFood said:


> The difference more resistance does for the er4 was that it slightly increased the upper mids and treble to give a better sense of clarity and let more details in.
> 
> That said, if they are exactly the same except for the ohm rating, another option might be to get the lower resistance one and get a resistor adapter, like the er4p to s converter. UE also makes one, and aliexpress sells a bunch too with different resistance ratings.
> 
> That would give you the option of both.





palestofwhite said:


> I actually bought an impedance adapter (75ohms) to use with one of my earphones... but found that the sound is actually not the same as compared to the original higher ohm version of the same earphones that my friend had. It's very odd because I myself used to own the ER4P with the S adapter... and that didn't alter the sound as compared to an original ER4S...
> 
> Could it possible be an earphone vs IEM thing when it comes to using impedance adapters? It could also be that my adapter is faulty, or having a default higher ohm version is better than adding an impedance adapter?
> 
> But nonetheless, your suggestion is pretty good and worth considering!



if what you mean like for instance the Puresound lines, Ty Hi Z, Seahf, or the K's which all have number coding to identify it's impedance, then no, they are not the same models because each have different types of drivers. it's not something in the cables that make them power hungry, but the drivers itself.

it is different from using an impedance adapter, because that will only load the cables, starving the driver so that it can be pushed with a higher volume before it vibrates or give the same volume to it without the impedance adapter. the high impedance headphones/earphones overall just have a higher headroom to play, so they usually will have a lower noise floor (resulting in blacker background) than the low impedance earphones. that's why adding  200 ohms to K's 300 will not make it sound like K's 500.

on BA drivers (like the ER4), using impedance adapter usually gives it a brighter tone because the bass lessened. 
while on the dynamic drivers, it usually gives it a more mellow and softer tone, especially on the treble.
so using both IEMs and earbuds with dynamic drivers using impedance adapter will give the same tone result

i do like having an impedance adapter lying around. i think of them as another way to EQ and give colour to the sound


----------



## 40760 (Jul 23, 2018)

chinmie said:


> if what you mean like for instance the Puresound lines, Ty Hi Z, Seahf, or the K's which all have number coding to identify it's impedance, then no, they are not the same models because each have different types of drivers. it's not something in the cables that make them power hungry, but the drivers itself.
> 
> it is different from using an impedance adapter, because that will only load the cables, starving the driver so that it can be pushed with a higher volume before it vibrates or give the same volume to it without the impedance adapter. the high impedance headphones/earphones overall just have a higher headroom to play, so they usually will have a lower noise floor (resulting in blacker background) than the low impedance earphones. that's why adding  200 ohms to K's 300 will not make it sound like K's 500.
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing! I asked the seller if the 32ohm vs 150ohm version has a big difference in sound, and they merely replied "yes" without much elaboration...

Guess I'll have to make a decision by blind faith!

Edit: Seller directed me to HF reviews... Guess there's also not much reviews online as most are recycled from blogs...


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 23, 2018)

palestofwhite said:


> Let's say if both earbuds, being exactly the same model, design and make, except one comes in 32ohms and the other 150ohms. What kind of sound change can one expect from the two just from the difference in impedance?


Naturally there would have to be slight driver variations to allow the impendance change so its difficult to say that they can be exactly the same but you can imagine the main benefit would be that the higher impendance allows more powerful sources to utilise that power.

It seems most of the higher end daps and dac/amps are more powerful so that may be why people consider higher impendance an advantage, rather than the driver itself being sonically superior? Just my understanding from opinions I’ve read. Although I’ve also heard opinions that the drivers with higher impendance allow for lower distortion but that’s not fully agreed upon.


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> Naturally there would have to be slight driver variations to allow the impendance change so its difficult to say that they can be exactly the same but you can imagine the main benefit would be that the higher impendance allows more powerful sources to utilise that power.
> 
> It seems most of the higher end daps and dac/amps are more powerful so that may be why people consider higher impendance an advantage, rather than the driver itself being sonically superior? Just my understanding from opinions I’ve read. Although I’ve also heard opinions that the drivers with higher impendance allow for lower distortion but that’s not fully agreed upon.



Guess 'll have to think about it and try and read up more about the effects of impedance... I still have a few more days to consider my choices...


----------



## rkw

Impedance should not be considered to be an indicator of sound quality.
Most of the earbuds considered to be TOTL have low impedance, e.g.:
Rose Mojito, Moondrop Liebeslied, Shozy BK, Simphonio Dragon 2+


----------



## Marcos Fontana

doggiemom said:


> Surprised to find that I like the Zen LL better than the Zen L or the ZOE.    They just have a fun sound with big bass that is great for cheesy summer pop songs.
> 
> 
> @DBaldock9  I ran through some test tracks with the K's Samsara, 500 and 600........ I have a few pages of notes on them, but still need to put into a coherent post.



Man, I bought a ZOE and received this Zen LL. OMG! They sound much better that the ZOE. Everything (lows, mids and highs) is better in LL. I need it in Omega Version. The sound is magic. I'm thinking in buying a RA only to get another pair of LL to have a backup.


----------



## Makahl (Jul 23, 2018)

- edit -


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 23, 2018)

palestofwhite said:


> Guess 'll have to think about it and try and read up more about the effects of impedance... I still have a few more days to consider my choices...


Dunno, my Ling is 195ohm and utilises the high impendance mode of my V20, my Masya/Mojito and BK don't but I wouldn't say I'm losing out on any quality in the detail. If I force high impendance mode on my bk or mojito with an adapter other than it being driven much higher volume it became a little more full in the bass, but detail or overall quality was much the same. Also my bk was actually acting weird with too much power for the few seconds i tried it, it rattled the driver slightly.... The Mojito is deceptively lower on sensitivity than the Masya or BK despite being similar impendance. It actually sounds just as good (or maybe slightly better? Hard to say) from powerful sources and handles the extra juice well.


----------



## doggiemom

Marcos Fontana said:


> Man, I bought a ZOE and received this Zen LL. OMG! They sound much better that the ZOE. Everything (lows, mids and highs) is better in LL. I need it in Omega Version. The sound is magic. I'm thinking in buying a RA only to get another pair of LL to have a backup.


That is a drastic measure, but I like your spirit!  

Here is a brief discussion of headphone impedance: 
http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/headphone-impedance-explained.html?m=1
It is not totally off topic, as it does mention earbuds briefly.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

New Pairing to Play With:

*EarStudio ES100* and *Linsoul BLD 150ohm* (2.5mm Balanced).


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> Dunno, my Ling is 195ohm and utilises the high impendance mode of my V20, my Masya/Mojito and BK don't but I wouldn't say I'm losing out on any quality in the detail. If I force high impendance mode on my bk or mojito with an adapter other than it being driven much higher volume it became a little more full in the bass, but detail or overall quality was much the same. Also my bk was actually acting weird with too much power for the few seconds i tried it, it rattled the driver slightly.... The Mojito is deceptively lower on sensitivity than the Masya or BK despite being similar impendance. It actually sounds just as good (or maybe slightly better? Hard to say) from powerful sources and handles the extra juice well.



After much consideration, I've decided to go with the lower impedance version for versatility...


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 24, 2018)

palestofwhite said:


> After much consideration, I've decided to go with the lower impedance version for versatility...


I think buds in the 32-150 range hit a nice sweet spot, but really I'll buy any impendance as my V20 can handle almost any earbud except maybe 400-600 ohm sometimes pushes it.

I'll keep shamelessly mentioning the Masya because it's just so good with hiegi full foam multi hole. Youcan get both from penon audio, the woodgrain version even comes with the braid cable I'm using


----------



## RobinFood

seanc6441 said:


> I think buds in the 32-150 range hit a nice sweet spot, but really I'll buy any impendance as my V20 can handle almost any earbud except maybe 400-600 ohm sometimes pushes it.
> 
> I'll keep shamelessly mentioning the Masya because it's just so good with hiegi full foam multi hole. Youcan get both from penon audio, the woodgrain version even comes with the braid cable I'm using



Out of curiosity, how would multi-hole Hiegi's compare to donut Hiegi's? How do you make your multi-holes? I made some donuts once and again from what I had on hand but always ended up trashing them because esthetically they looked like garbage...and although they sounded nice, I didn't want to put garbage in my ears!


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> I think buds in the 32-150 range hit a nice sweet spot, but really I'll buy any impendance as my V20 can handle almost any earbud except maybe 400-600 ohm sometimes pushes it.
> 
> I'll keep shamelessly mentioning the Masya because it's just so good with hiegi full foam multi hole. Youcan get both from penon audio, the woodgrain version even comes with the braid cable I'm using



Actually I can opt for either 32 or 150ohms... but I'll have to bring my Mojo along if I decide to travel...


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 24, 2018)

RobinFood said:


> Out of curiosity, how would multi-hole Hiegi's compare to donut Hiegi's? How do you make your multi-holes? I made some donuts once and again from what I had on hand but always ended up trashing them because esthetically they looked like garbage...and although they sounded nice, I didn't want to put garbage in my ears!


I usually prefer the VE thick donut over hiegi donut except for on my Rose Mojito which sounds the best to me with Hiegi donuts.

For the Masya I think full foam (hiegi) with multi hole sounds better than normal full foam or donut foams. You get the fullness of the full foam but the clarity and space of donuts. Plus the depth-layer is much more apparent than full foams withmake the masya a little 2d or like a 'wall of sound'.

I think the improvement is worth it, but the donuts do sound good on the masya too if you like a little less full bodied sound. It's more clinical that way, but less layering also (but does keep good space thanks to the open middle vents.)


----------



## RobinFood

seanc6441 said:


> I usually prefer the VE thick donut over hiegi donut except for on my Rose Mojito which sounds the best to me with Hiegi donuts.
> 
> For the Masya I think full foam (hiegi) with multi hole sounds better than normal full foam or donut foams. You get the fullness of the full foam but the clarity and space of donuts. Plus the depth-layer is much more apparent than full foams withmake the masya a little 2d or like a 'wall of sound'.
> 
> I think the improvement is worth it, but the donuts do sound good on the masya too if you like a little less full bodied sound. It's more clinical that way, but less layering also (but does keep good space thanks to the open middle vents.)



How do you make your multi-holes? Do they look good in the end? Kind of want to try them on my Willsound MK2, currently using the donuts I got with my Yincrow a which back...


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 24, 2018)

RobinFood said:


> How do you make your multi-holes? Do they look good in the end? Kind of want to try them on my Willsound MK2, currently using the donuts I got with my Yincrow a which back...






Look good to me. As you can see I did 6+1 vents. But doing 4+1 might be easier and sound prettt similar.

The trick is to pinch the foam exactly half way (basically folding the foam in half) as such and cut at an angle to form a triangle cut (which forms a diamond shape once you release the pinch.




The red line shows where to snip. As you can see that will create 3 holes or 'diamond' shapes and then you create two more perpendicular to those cuts to make a sort of north south east west and centre hole.

Less is more when cutting, don't cut too deep! Don't cut completely through the foam.


----------



## subwoof3r

It has been now almost 1 week without any real solutions offered by Jim, a bit dissapointed by this EBX adventure.. not sure if I should recommand to anyone for now as custom support looks very average 
Jim looks having diffficulties to understand english and I have to wait sometimes 2-3 days to get an answer which anyway do not really help.
_*very sad*_


----------



## knudsen

subwoof3r said:


> It has been now almost 1 week without any real solutions offered by Jim, a bit dissapointed by this EBX adventure.. not sure if I should recommand to anyone for now as custom support looks very average
> Jim looks having diffficulties to understand english and I have to wait sometimes 2-3 days to get an answer which anyway do not really help.
> _*very sad*_


Yea, its so irritating with those sellers only checking mail once a day, even if you reply to them in 1 minute it will take 23:59 before you receive the next mail. If there is a small misunderstanding it takes forever to talk, I completely don't have the patience for that. Let alone if they reply every 2-3 days...


----------



## activatorfly

subwoof3r said:


> Just received my EBX today !
> Was so excited and hyped until I give a quick listen before going back to work and... DAMN ! I feel so unlucky..
> The "R" (right) driver unit is defective. No bass at all and the sound is definitely not a the same level volume as the other unit (L).
> A bit disapointed by this QC, but I'm pretty sure that Jim will arrange that situation.
> Difficult to judge SQ from only 1 driver, but it looks to sound very good (I heard some details that I never heard from my WIllsounds until now in one of my favorite tracks!), so it looks very promising! but for now, I will have to put them in the box until a solution arrives


Please keep us posted regarding this issue....I wanted to buy them to complement my Masya buds. Also once you've received a working pair can you compare them with PK32 - as I may add them or MK2/3...(I listen to mainly electronica)...cheers!


----------



## Marcos Fontana

BloodyPenguin said:


> New Pairing to Play With:
> 
> *EarStudio ES100* and *Linsoul BLD 150ohm* (2.5mm Balanced).



Great photo!!!

About this Linsoul BLD, this is new for me. How does it sound? OMG, I need to buy this ES100.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Marcos Fontana said:


> Great photo!!!
> 
> About this Linsoul BLD, this is new for me. How does it sound? OMG, I need to buy this ES100.



Sounds really good and it is priced well.

I'm planning on doing a full review soon.  But basically they have a very enjoyable smooth sound, with nice detail.  Bass is nicely controlled.


----------



## Guggga

Listening to the Audio Varna today, love their mids!


----------



## 40760

Astrotec Lyra Collection and ToneKing TP16 incoming...


----------



## RuFrost

palestofwhite said:


> Astrotec Lyra Collection and ToneKing TP16 incoming...


Let us know about your experience! About Lyra Collection especially for sure)) It seems like there are no owners of its here. Some reviews here and there, but no owners.


----------



## 40760 (Jul 26, 2018)

RuFrost said:


> Let us know about your experience! About Lyra Collection especially for sure)) It seems like there are no owners of its here. Some reviews here and there, but no owners.



I'll try and give my comments after I receive and spend some time with them. I saw quite a bit of reviews but I didn't know there were no owners. I thought they get to keep the earbuds that were sent to them for reviews? Maybe I'm wrong.

I'm also managing my expectations a bit here with these. Of course I hope they sound good but I don't expect them to be "$299 good" (diminishing returns). I'd be more than glad if they can perform well or better than my current collection. I always wanted to own a pair of TOTL earbuds that are fully designed and built from a reputable company, for a change from the independent (more DIY?) brands that I currently own. The amount of R&D and the complete package of the Astrotec Lyra Collection seemed in-line and appealing to my requirements.

All I can say now is that I'm looking forward!


----------



## stephengee77

Is there a best earbud for Jpop or Jazz in a <$50 range? I'm new to earbuds so I'm unsure what things are. Or maybe higher and I can just save longer...


----------



## RuFrost

stephengee77 said:


> Is there a best earbud for Jpop or Jazz in a <$50 range? I'm new to earbuds so I'm unsure what things are. Or maybe higher and I can just save longer...


just grab bs1 official and forget about hustle with earbuds (though you better have good source of sound for them; low\mid-fi just won't work for them to be totally blown away). The earbud form factor is probably the most addictive and different in sound among headphones, so it is really a rabbit hole...with iems and full size headphones it is much easier to decide whether you like it or not. With earbuds, they present sound so differently depending on materials, shells, cables, amping, dac etc...


----------



## knudsen

RuFrost said:


> just grab bs1 official and forget about hustle with earbuds (though you better have good source of sound for them; low\mid-fi just won't work for them to be totally blown away). The earbud form factor is probably the most addictive and different in sound among headphones, so it is really a rabbit hole...with iems and full size headphones it is much easier to decide whether you like it or not. With earbuds, they present sound so differently depending on materials, shells, cables, amping, dac etc...


Did you try the EBX too?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 26, 2018)

stephengee77 said:


> Is there a best earbud for Jpop or Jazz in a <$50 range? I'm new to earbuds so I'm unsure what things are. Or maybe higher and I can just save longer...


Someone with shozy XB should chime in because the .Shozy Cygnus has the right signature for J pop and Jazz so if shozy XB has a similar tuning to the Cygnus it's close to this price range.

Anyone have both?


----------



## mochill

seanc6441 said:


> Someone with shozy XB should chime in because the .Shozy Cygnus has the right signature for J pop and Jazz so if shozy XB has a similar tuning to the Cygnus it's close to this price range.
> 
> Anyone have both?


You need one bro


----------



## seanc6441

mochill said:


> You need one bro


So you've heard both or just the XB?

Or neither and waiting for me to purchase?


----------



## RuFrost (Jul 26, 2018)

knudsen said:


> Did you try the EBX too?


not yet, but:
1) MMCX cables opens the door for cable switching and endanger connections in the future. If the cable is switchable, then custom made cables and different experiments are required. Had xba-z5 and t8ie mkii and I know pretty well how the cable can drastically change the sound and turn headphones in garbage or complete miracle.
2) There are users\owners of EBX who experience troubles with them. QC is the weak point of buying\owning it. For example, recent purchaser had issue with no bass in right channel.
3) I have heard people complaining about ebx sound and never about bs1 official. Have heard quite calm reaction, but not disappointment, especially for the price.

P.s: I would like to try ebx, but no possibilities of reaching the owners and I'm not going to buy them new without audition.


----------



## mochill

Waiting for you to purchase


seanc6441 said:


> So you've heard both or just the XB?
> 
> Or neither and waiting for me to purchase?


----------



## knudsen

RuFrost said:


> not yet, but:
> 1) MMCX cables opens the door for cable switching and endanger connections in the future. If the cable is switchable, then custom made cables and different experiments are required. Had xba-z5 and t8ie mkii and I know pretty well how the cable can drastically change the sound and turn headphones in garbage or complete miracle.
> 2) There are users\owners of EBX who experience troubles with them. QC is the weak point of buying\owning it. For example, recent purchaser had issue with no bass in right channel.
> 3) I have heard people complaining about ebx sound and never about bs1 official. Have heard quite calm reaction, but not disappointment, especially for the price.
> ...


Are you aware of others besides subwoof3r that got a lemon?


----------



## j4100

knudsen said:


> Are you aware of others besides subwoof3r that got a lemon?



Both Hungry Panda and myself have them and I don't think he has had any problems. I certainly don't.


----------



## HungryPanda

To concur mine sound just great


----------



## activatorfly

HungryPanda said:


> To concur mine sound just great


How do they compare to Masya in your opinion?


----------



## HungryPanda

They have an energy about them, very lively earbuds the Rose Masya is more refined and neutral


----------



## RuFrost

HungryPanda said:


> They have an energy about them, very lively earbuds the Rose Masya is more refined and neutral


1.How would you compare BGVP DX3s to bs1, ebx, masya? 
2. Is it the same level? 
3. Have you tried to compare BGVP DX3s and toneking t400s with the same mmcx cable? which one is better?


----------



## HungryPanda

The BGVP DX3 sounds pretty close to the EBX. Of either I thought I preferred the TO400 but now I have the TO200 I'm happier with extra bass it offers


----------



## activatorfly

HungryPanda said:


> The BGVP DX3 sounds pretty close to the EBX. Of either I thought I preferred the TO400 but now I have the TO200 I'm happier with extra bass it offers


Would you say they're >80% EBX ?  Also I just read a review saying they'e not using MMCX connectors? Can you verify this please? Cheers!


----------



## HungryPanda

Wow that's what happened to my DX3 right bud when I took the cable off to put on the new DX3s


----------



## activatorfly

HungryPanda said:


> Wow that's what happened to my DX3 right bud when I took the cable off to put on the new DX3s


More dodgy QC!


----------



## silverfishla

activatorfly said:


> Would you say they're >80% EBX ?  Also I just read a review saying they'e not using MMCX connectors? Can you verify this please? Cheers!


This happened to my first pair of DX3, there didn't seem to be any glue connected to the MMXC plugs.  The replacement pair that was sent, did not do this.  My pair of DX3s also seem solid for now.


----------



## activatorfly

HungryPanda said:


> The BGVP DX3 sounds pretty close to the EBX. Of either I thought I preferred the TO400 but now I have the TO200 I'm happier with extra bass it offers


So you'd opt for TO200 out of the four? - I listen to mainly electronica - i.e. a wide sound-stage with extended sub-bass


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> The BGVP DX3 sounds pretty close to the EBX. Of either I thought I preferred the TO400 but now I have the TO200 I'm happier with extra bass it offers



Do you have the much cheaper PT15 (the newer one from 2017/2018)?
It really does have the Bass impact that the 2016 version did not have.


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> That would be the NiceHCK EBX



The EBX that I ordered, arrived today.
I guess I was expecting them to have more Bass than they seem to produce.
Out of the box, with Hiegi Full Foams, they remind me of my OurArt Ti7 - with very good & clear Midrange & Treble (a lot of treble), but not as much Bass.
They've been connected to my ES100, Shanling M0, and iFi Micro iDSD.
.
Which foams on the EBX have you found to give the best low Bass response and impact?


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm just using the generic foams from the bag of 100 I got from aliexpress


----------



## chinmie

DBaldock9 said:


> The EBX that I ordered, arrived today.
> I guess I was expecting them to have more Bass than they seem to produce.
> Out of the box, with Hiegi Full Foams, they remind me of my OurArt Ti7 - with very good & clear Midrange & Treble (a lot of treble), but not as much Bass.
> They've been connected to my ES100, Shanling M0, and iFi Micro iDSD.
> ...



thicker than hiegi are the red and blue VE monks full foams from the expansion pack, but tonally, i prefer the hiegi. if Hiegi full foams don't give enough bass, i guess it's time to EQ


----------



## silverfishla (Jul 27, 2018)

DBaldock9 said:


> The EBX that I ordered, arrived today.
> I guess I was expecting them to have more Bass than they seem to produce.
> Out of the box, with Hiegi Full Foams, they remind me of my OurArt Ti7 - with very good & clear Midrange & Treble (a lot of treble), but not as much Bass.
> They've been connected to my ES100, Shanling M0, and iFi Micro iDSD.
> ...


Oh my gosh @DBadlock is that for real?  Now, I like the OurArt Ti7, but those don't have much bass at all.  Clarity, yes, even some meat on it's bones, but not much bass. You are saying that the EBX sound like those?  That's a different take.


----------



## activatorfly

HungryPanda said:


> I'm just using the generic foams from the bag of 100 I got from aliexpress


Is the lack of bass the main reason why you prefer TO200 over the EBX ??
Tbh with their large metal housings, I would never have predicted them being bass-light! 
How does sound-stage etc compare to the TO200?


----------



## activatorfly

Does anyone know if the supplied cable with TONEKING TO200 ends with 3-core ? (ie after the splitter.) 
This will be visible if the plug isn't moulded...Cheers!


----------



## DBaldock9

silverfishla said:


> Oh my gosh @DBaldock9 is that for real?  Now, I like the OurArt Ti7, but those don't have much bass at all.  Clarity, yes, even some meat on it's bones, but not much bass. You are saying that the EBX sound like those?  That's a different take.





activatorfly said:


> Is the lack of bass the main reason why you prefer TO200 over the EBX ??
> Tbh with their large metal housings, I would never have predicted them being bass-light!
> How does sound-stage etc compare to the TO200?



Some of my first impressions could have been influenced by my being rather tired, after a 13-hour workday on Thursday.
On Friday morning, with the EBX on their stock cable, and connected to my Shanling M0, I can hear that they do have low Bass response (playing FLAC CD rips), but it's just not as loud as the Midrange & Treble.
Experimenting with foam types & thicknesses may balance the Bass vs. Midrange & Treble - something to try this weekend.

With the good, clear Midrange, and slightly elevated Treble, I think the EBX may have a sound stage that's a bit wider than the TO200, although I haven't listened to enough tracks to compare depth & height.


----------



## activatorfly

DBaldock9 said:


> Some of my first impressions could have been influenced by my being rather tired, after a 13-hour workday on Thursday.
> On Friday morning, with the EBX on their stock cable, and connected to my Shanling M0, I can hear that they do have low Bass response (playing FLAC CD rips), but it's just not as loud as the Midrange & Treble.
> Experimenting with foam types & thicknesses may balance the Bass vs. Midrange & Treble - something to try this weekend.
> 
> With the good, clear Midrange, and slightly elevated Treble, I think the EBX may have a sound stage that's a bit wider than the TO200, although I haven't listened to enough tracks to compare depth & height.


Thanks...however I've already ordered the TO200 - they are seemingly a good choice for listening to electronica/soundscapes etc.


----------



## seanc6441

Any earbuds with a deep bass response (but slightly recessed/under emphasised) can easily be balanced with some EQ. If you aren't opposed to EQ it definitely helps. Like the EBX, my Masya and BS1 benefit so much from this, but some buds are just too rolled off in the sub bass for EQ to have an effect.


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> Any earbuds with a deep bass response (but slightly recessed/under emphasised) can easily be balanced with some EQ. If you aren't opposed to EQ it definitely helps. Like the EBX, my Masya and BS1 benefit so much from this, but some buds are just too rolled off in the sub bass for EQ to have an effect.


True...I tend not to EQ much...(unless using my laptop.) Masya do seem slightly veiled regarding sub-bass hence I reckon the TO200 will complement them.....Can't comment about EBX or BS1 -as i'll refrain from buying either....


----------



## mochill

seanc6441 said:


> Any earbuds with a deep bass response (but slightly recessed/under emphasised) can easily be balanced with some EQ. If you aren't opposed to EQ it definitely helps. Like the EBX, my Masya and BS1 benefit so much from this, but some buds are just too rolled off in the sub bass for EQ to have an effect.


The xb I guess


----------



## DBaldock9

activatorfly said:


> Thanks...however I've already ordered the TO200 - they are seemingly a good choice for listening to electronica/soundscapes etc.



You shouldn't be disappointed, the TO200 is a great earbud.
Due to its being ported, it has more Bass than the TO400s, or the EBX (currently).


----------



## DBaldock9

seanc6441 said:


> Any earbuds with a deep bass response (but slightly recessed/under emphasised) can easily be balanced with some EQ. If you aren't opposed to EQ it definitely helps. Like the EBX, my Masya and BS1 benefit so much from this, but some buds are just too rolled off in the sub bass for EQ to have an effect.



When I'm listening to music streamed from the Internet, via my Roku 4 optical out, to my FiiO Taishan D03K (24-Bit / 192-KHz (Cirrus 4344)) DAC, and either Walnut F1 or XRK Audio Pocket Class A NHB (No Holds Barred - hand-tuned) Amps - there's no option to use EQ (unless I buy some sort of external EQ, and insert it between the DAC & Amp).


----------



## DBaldock9

DBaldock9 said:


> ...
> Experimenting with foam types & thicknesses may balance the Bass vs. Midrange & Treble - something to try this weekend.
> ...



When I got home from work this afternoon, I tried adding a Hiegi Donut Foam over the Hiegi Full Foam. 
The extra thickness makes a better seal with my ears, and the low Bass level is much improved.


----------



## seanc6441

DBaldock9 said:


> When I'm listening to music streamed from the Internet, via my Roku 4 optical out, to my FiiO Taishan D03K (24-Bit / 192-KHz (Cirrus 4344)) DAC, and either Walnut F1 or XRK Audio Pocket Class A NHB (No Holds Barred - hand-tuned) Amps - there's no option to use EQ (unless I buy some sort of external EQ, and insert it between the DAC & Amp).


I feel your pain, using spotify on my LG V20 and unable to root my phone I had no option to use any decent EQs parametric or even graphical and was stuck with the 'Equalizer FX' app which only had 6 bands and the lowest being 60hz...

But just yesterday I managed to find another app called 'RE EQ' which is somehow not in the top suggestions on the play store (absolutely should be) which has a 10 band EQ down to 32hz (much better!) and it works with spotify which was very surprising. So anyways I paid for that app and tried it out with my earbuds adding some bass here and there and making other slight tweaks where needed and I have to say I think EQ can really work wonders if used well.

For anyone with the V20 or other smartphones looking to mess with a graphical EQ I absolutely recommended trying it out! (I think you can buy and try on the play store, if you don't like it request a refund).


----------



## activatorfly

DBaldock9 said:


> When I'm listening to music streamed from the Internet, via my Roku 4 optical out, to my FiiO Taishan D03K (24-Bit / 192-KHz (Cirrus 4344)) DAC, and either Walnut F1 or XRK Audio Pocket Class A NHB (No Holds Barred - hand-tuned) Amps - there's no option to use EQ (unless I buy some sort of external EQ, and insert it between the DAC & Amp).


Exactly...at  which point it becomes too much hassle....in contrast easily implemented with a DAC. Btw how does the iFi Audio xDSD perform?...wish I could afford one!


----------



## DBaldock9

activatorfly said:


> Exactly...at  which point it becomes too much hassle....in contrast easily implemented with a DAC. Btw how does the iFi Audio xDSD perform?...wish I could afford one!



The iFi model I've got, is the Micro iDSD (2016).  I haven't really considered any of their newer models, like the xDSD.
The iDSD does a great job of driving any & all of my earbuds.


----------



## activatorfly

DBaldock9 said:


> The iFi model I've got, is the Micro iDSD (2016).  I haven't really considered any of their newer models, like the xDSD.
> The iDSD does a great job of driving any & all of my earbuds.


Yes it appears very capable....wish my SMSL M8A DAC had a balanced output!


----------



## Yobster69

seanc6441 said:


> I feel your pain, using spotify on my LG V20 and unable to root my phone I had no option to use any decent EQs parametric or even graphical and was stuck with the 'Equalizer FX' app which only had 6 bands and the lowest being 60hz...
> 
> But just yesterday I managed to find another app called 'RE EQ' which is somehow not in the top suggestions on the play store (absolutely should be) which has a 10 band EQ down to 32hz (much better!) and it works with spotify which was very surprising. So anyways I paid for that app and tried it out with my earbuds adding some bass here and there and making other slight tweaks where needed and I have to say I think EQ can really work wonders if used well.
> 
> For anyone with the V20 or other smartphones looking to mess with a graphical EQ I absolutely recommended trying it out! (I think you can buy and try on the play store, if you don't like it request a refund).


Hi Sean, if you were to use IOS then there is an App called SpotEQ. It’a been around for a few years now. It is a full 1000 point spectrum EQ app, not some silly 5,8,10 point Equaliser. Mark 1 was fantastic, for a couple of years we were able to store music offline in the App, but then Spotify changed the rules, and the developer called Zack Fletcher had to take it down and abide by their protocols, or have the app deleted off everybody’s phone/player.... TBH, he’s a hero really. A lone developer playing with the big boys. 
It’s still my most used streaming app, it reaches from 32htz to 16khtz, but if you increase the very lowest freq then apparently it reaches lower, but for some strange reason they are not allowed to show this!!! And I’ve confirmed this using a freq sweep with some very bass oriented phones. 
It is most likely the same situ with RE EQ, though I cannot confirm this for you.
Sorry, just had to chime in, but if you are using IOS to stream and want to try eq’ing then the minuscule sum charged for this app is pennies well spent.


----------



## chinmie

DBaldock9 said:


> The iFi model I've got, is the Micro iDSD (2016).  I haven't really considered any of their newer models, like the xDSD.
> The iDSD does a great job of driving any & all of my earbuds.



the micro is more powerful on the amp section than the xdsd, so for non portable use your micro idsd is already great.


----------



## DBaldock9

activatorfly said:


> Yes it appears very capable....wish my SMSL M8A DAC had a balanced output!



Most of my _non-budget_ earbuds are wired with 2.5mm TRRS plugs - or have MMCX connectors, to use with my 2.5mm TRRS cables.

While I have a few different devices with a Balanced (2.5mm TRRS) output -
01.) Onkyo DP-X1B DAP
02.) Shanling M3s DAP/DAC
03.) Zishan DSD (AK4497EQ) DAP/DAC
04.) Radsone EarStudio ES100 - BT HD/USB DAC/3.5mm TRS & 2.5mm TRRS (Balanced) Amp (portable)
05.) Walnut F1 - 3.5mm TRS & 2.5mm TRRS (Balanced) Amp (portable)

- none of them have Balanced inputs.

I've recently been checking on the logistics of assembling a Balanced (input to output) version of the XRK DCA (Desktop Class A) Amp, the bigger version of my XRK Pocket Class A Amp.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/599033882/se-class-a-desktop-amp-pcb?ref=shop_home_active_4
As a source, I've located a Dual AK4497EQ DAC, with balanced XLR outputs.  The model with upgraded capacitors & op-amps, is $550 -
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Deluxe-Dua...AC-RC-Selectable-Filter-XMOS-USB/253618331320


----------



## seanc6441

Yobster69 said:


> Hi Sean, if you were to use IOS then there is an App called SpotEQ. It’a been around for a few years now. It is a full 1000 point spectrum EQ app, not some silly 5,8,10 point Equaliser. Mark 1 was fantastic, for a couple of years we were able to store music offline in the App, but then Spotify changed the rules, and the developer called Zack Fletcher had to take it down and abide by their protocols, or have the app deleted off everybody’s phone/player.... TBH, he’s a hero really. A lone developer playing with the big boys.
> It’s still my most used streaming app, it reaches from 32htz to 16khtz, but if you increase the very lowest freq then apparently it reaches lower, but for some strange reason they are not allowed to show this!!! And I’ve confirmed this using a freq sweep with some very bass oriented phones.
> It is most likely the same situ with RE EQ, though I cannot confirm this for you.
> Sorry, just had to chime in, but if you are using IOS to stream and want to try eq’ing then the minuscule sum charged for this app is pennies well spent.


Yeah you really have to dig sometimes but there are some hidden gems in the app store even if you cannot root your phone. Thanks for point that one out I don't use my iphone for music anymore but you never know when it might come in handy!

I think it's pretty sad that in 2018 the leading flagship in phone audio (LG) doesn't have a system wide parametric EQ by default. I know apple don't care about anything but the general consumer but LG having the focus on audio for the V series and yet no option to use proper EQ without rooting is just annoying.

For now I'll settle with that RE EQ has to offer it's better than what I had before and the fact that it's working on spotify is just awesome. Because any other EQ on the playstore with support for spotify is a crappy 6 band EQ with merely basic function.


----------



## silverfishla (Jul 28, 2018)

DBaldock9 said:


> Most of my _non-budget_ earbuds are wired with 2.5mm TRRS plugs - or have MMCX connectors, to use with my 2.5mm TRRS cables.
> 
> While I have a few different devices with a Balanced (2.5mm TRRS) output -
> 01.) Onkyo DP-X1B DAP
> ...


If you want a portable balanced in balanced out amp, I have the Fireye HDB amp andthats powerful and relatively inexpensive.  I think I saw it on Massdrop a while ago for $175.  I can recommend it, it’s clean and has enough juice to power my Dekoni Audio Blue planars (which is like a Fostek T50RP).  Only downside is that it utilizes that RSA plug, so you’ll have to make an adapter.  I go Shanling M3s balanced in on that.
Oh, and it comes with a 3.5mm to RSA cable and a few extra RSA male plugs to make your own cables.
Also, I just got that Hidizs DH100 DAC/amp and that has a really good SQ for earbuds.  Warm, spacious with good low end.  No analog input but great if you use your M1 or M3s as transport.  Also, no lag when using it as a DAC on your computer.


----------



## 40760

A pleasant surprise from DHL today... the Astrotec Lyra Collection and Toneking TP16 just got delivered. 2 days earlier than the projected date! 

Out of the box, the TP16 is pretty impressive.

I'm very surprised at how well made it is and it's getting me very interested in the other Toneking earbuds. I bought the version with Mic as I'll be using it solely with my iPad to play games whereby voice communication is vital. I really appreciate the supple silver coated cables and choice of slim plug and discrete looking Mic module. I can easily recommend these and I think they're very value for money, both sound and built wise.

And then I got to the Lyra Collection (32ohms)... 

Beautiful (and supple) braided cables, metal shells, splitter... and how amazingly light they are for it's built and choice of materials. It doesn't really make sense!
I also thought they were going to fit weirdly because of how the cables are routed out of the shell. Nope. Again, good fitting without ear hooks or over ear-style of wearing.
I think this very much attributed by the overall light weight construction of the entire earbuds for this kind of good fit, but again I have bigger than average ears which helps too.

So how do they sound right out of the box? Really effortless and smooth.
To be fair, I'm going to have to give myself some time (and burn in) with these for something more conclusive.

I'm glad I got what I hoped for with these, TOTL – package, built and experience. I'm happy!


----------



## DBaldock9

silverfishla said:


> If you want a portable balanced in balanced out amp, I have the Fireye HDB amp andthats powerful and relatively inexpensive.  I think I saw it on Massdrop a while ago for $175.  I can recommend it, it’s clean and has enough juice to power my Dekoni Audio Blue planars (which is like a Fostek T50RP).  Only downside is that it utilizes that RSA plug, so you’ll have to make an adapter.  I go Shanling M3s balanced in on that.
> Oh, and it comes with a 3.5mm to RSA cable and a few extra RSA male plugs to make your own cables.
> Also, I just got that Hidizs DH100 DAC/amp and that has a really good SQ for earbuds.  Warm, spacious with good low end.  No analog input but great if you use your M1 or M3s as transport.  Also, no lag when using it as a DAC on your computer.



I think I'm OK for portable devices with Balanced Outputs, to drive all my various earbuds & earphones.
For my home system, I want a good Dual DAC (either AK4497EQ or ES9038PRO), with an Optical Input, and Balanced XLR Outputs - to drive a Headphone Amp with Balanced Inputs and Outputs.


----------



## activatorfly

silverfishla said:


> If you want a portable balanced in balanced out amp, I have the Fireye HDB amp andthats powerful and relatively inexpensive.  I think I saw it on Massdrop a while ago for $175.  I can recommend it, it’s clean and has enough juice to power my Dekoni Audio Blue planars (which is like a Fostek T50RP).  Only downside is that it utilizes that RSA plug, so you’ll have to make an adapter.  I go Shanling M3s balanced in on that.
> Oh, and it comes with a 3.5mm to RSA cable and a few extra RSA male plugs to make your own cables.
> Also, I just got that Hidizs DH100 DAC/amp and that has a really good SQ for earbuds.  Warm, spacious with good low end.  No analog input but great if you use your M1 or M3s as transport.  Also, no lag when using it as a DAC on your computer.


I like the portable form factor of the Fireye HDB ....so with the extra provided RSA male plugs - you could build your own 2.5mm TRRS cables? - in order to facilitate balanced input from portable amps (such as Walnut F1) & balanced DAP sources? Cheers!


----------



## activatorfly

DBaldock9 said:


> Most of my _non-budget_ earbuds are wired with 2.5mm TRRS plugs - or have MMCX connectors, to use with my 2.5mm TRRS cables.
> 
> While I have a few different devices with a Balanced (2.5mm TRRS) output -
> 01.) Onkyo DP-X1B DAP
> ...


Seems like an amazing project!...keep us posted with its progress?


----------



## RobinFood (Jul 28, 2018)

I went to e-earphones today to test  the audio-technica ATH-C200iS as per @chaiyuta 's request.

Here are my impressions...

*Build and comfort
*
The shells were actually bigger than I thought. I thought they slipped into the ears like earpods or the sony earpod copy, but they are actually bigger than mx500 shells. A large portion of the shell hangs out. That said, the sound ports do fit completely into the ear, and they are made of a soft, eraser-like rubber, so they seal really well and are quite comfy.  I would say that they are more comfy than the standard mx500 shells, but not as comfy as the earpod design, The cable, remote and jack all feel really standard at that price point. If you take care of the wire I can see them lasting indefinitely.

*Sound
*
They have the typical Audio Technica sound signature. They actually don't sound like earbuds. They sound like equivalently priced IEMs. The bass is light but punchy, there is an emphasis in the upper mids, and female vocals and high violin strings are really enjoyable and extremely clear. They don't have any air though, which is why they sound like IEMs so much. The soundstage is pretty narrow, and separation suffers because of it. Everything is just kind of right in front of you, you don't have any instruments or echoes on the side like you tend to with a lot of earbuds. The amount of detail was also pretty average...about what I would expect from 20$ IEMs...some detail gets lost in the background.

*Personal Verdict
*
If you like the Audio Technica house sound and don't have any of their other great products yet, it could be an interesting buy. I really love how the Audio Technica house sound makes female vocals, especially high-pitched J-pop vocals pop.

I already have the ATH-CKR70s (iems) for that though, and find my WIllsound MK2 to be MUCH better, although they were more expensive.
I did use the Lyra Classic to compare it as well, and that's when I realized just how little air they had.
Of course, all of those are much more expensive than the CS200, but I find the extra cost more than worth it.


----------



## seanc6441

From Cypherus on the earbuds anonymous FB group




 

Limited Edition White Campfred :O


----------



## seanc6441

seanc6441 said:


> From Cypherus on the earbuds anonymous FB group
> 
> 
> 
> Limited Edition White Campfred :O



Might interest you @DAndrew


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> Might interest you @DAndrew



Thanks, I saw it when he first teased it and talked with him and at that point he said it would be more expensive than the ZoomFred....which tbh is not a good deal at all unless you are a collector or something


----------



## seanc6441

DAndrew said:


> Thanks, I saw it when he first teased it and talked with him and at that point he said it would be more expensive than the ZoomFred....which tbh is not a good deal at all unless you are a collector or something


Ah didn't know the price, but I'm sure it doesn't sound like the regular campfred either hence the price change. So whether it's worth it or not hard to say.


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> Ah didn't know the price, but I'm sure it doesn't sound like the regular campfred either hence the price change. So whether it's worth it or not hard to say.



Eh...just for a change of sound signature doesnt really give an excuse for such a big price, iirc it was somewhere in the 400$ range more or less...


----------



## silverfishla

activatorfly said:


> I like the portable form factor of the Fireye HDB ....so with the extra provided RSA male plugs - you could build your own 2.5mm TRRS cables? - in order to facilitate balanced input from portable amps (such as Walnut F1) & balanced DAP sources? Cheers!


Yes, with the extra male plugs you can make your own adapters and cables as needed.  Also, it has the 3.5mm to RSA cable already so you can get “balanced” from your single ended sources (not true balanced, but hey that sounds good too) so you can skip the Walnut part.


----------



## chaiyuta

@RobinFood : Thanks for your kind impression. I am very appreciate.


----------



## RobinFood

chaiyuta said:


> @RobinFood : Thanks for your kind impression. I am very appreciate.



No problem, it was nice to go out there with a goal.

On another note, has anyone seen those?

http://www.e-earphone.jp/shopdetail/000000195522/

They seem like a hybrid between an IEM and an earbud. I saw them today but was a little tight on time and couldn't understand how to wear them.
Apparently, the driver is in the ball part...
The foam looked super comfy.


----------



## activatorfly

silverfishla said:


> Yes, with the extra male plugs you can make your own adapters and cables as needed.  Also, it has the 3.5mm to RSA cable already so you can get “balanced” from your single ended sources (not true balanced, but hey that sounds good too) so you can skip the Walnut part.


"Not true balanced" - seems kind of pointless imho. I reckon the 3.5mm to RSA cable (logically) must be a 3.5mm TRRS plug? - i.e. its a 4-pole plug, whereby left and right channels have their ground wires separately soldered. Hence a conversion cable from SE sources to produce quasi-balanced output does not exist!


----------



## activatorfly

silverfishla said:


> Yes, with the extra male plugs you can make your own adapters and cables as needed.  Also, it has the 3.5mm to RSA cable already so you can get “balanced” from your single ended sources (not true balanced, but hey that sounds good too) so you can skip the Walnut part.


Thanks for reminding me about this amp....worth keeping an eye out if it's reduced to $175 again! - I think it might pair up well with balanced output from my Walnut V3 - I'd not used it for 10 months due to several issues such as: flaky gui/ overheating/ electrical clicking noise between tracks. A FW upgrade helped  & I've rolled the op-amp, added a bigger capacity battery & will install a new amp module.


----------



## silverfishla (Jul 28, 2018)

activatorfly said:


> "Not true balanced" - seems kind of pointless imho. I reckon the 3.5mm to RSA cable (logically) must be a 3.5mm TRRS plug? - i.e. its a 4-pole plug, whereby left and right channels have their ground wires separately soldered. Hence a conversion cable from SE sources to produce quasi-balanced output does not exist!


Yes, quasi balanced if you use the 3.5mm to RSA cable provided, but true balanced if you get a cable that is 2.5mm trrs to RSA balanced.  It’s fully balanced amp.  That cable is just an option if you don’t have a balanced source.  You still get some of the benefits like more power.


----------



## dheepak10 (Jul 28, 2018)

Double review for the day! And the first time I have rated something a full 5 stars

Moonbuds Bunting

 

Moonbuds Crescent


----------



## DBaldock9

silverfishla said:


> Yes, quasi balanced if you use the 3.5mm to RSA cable provided, but true balanced if you get a cable that is 2.5mm trrs to RSA balanced.  It’s fully balanced amp.  That cable is just an option if you don’t have a balanced source.  You still get some of the benefits like more power.



So, on the 4-pin input connector, they're just Grounding the (L-) and (R-) input pins, when connecting to the 3.5mm TRS plug adapter?


----------



## silverfishla

DBaldock9 said:


> So, on the 4-pin input connector, they're just Grounding the (L-) and (R-) input pins, when connecting to the 3.5mm TRS plug adapter?


I can't say because it's glued shut.  My supposition is that the the 2 ground lines on the RSA terminate together on the 3.5mm plug.  I can't tell you how it handles the signal after that.  In any case, here's the old review and thread
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/review-firestone-audio-fireye-hdb-new-balance.718790/
I don't want to hijack this thread....sounds good with earbuds too with plenty of power from L M H gain stages.


----------



## LigerLaib

People still listen to earbuds.?????!!! Soooo 2015...


----------



## groucho69

LigerLaib said:


> People still listen to earbuds.?????!!! Soooo 2015...



How long since you have listened?


----------



## Qualcheduno

LigerLaib said:


> People still listen to earbuds.?????!!! Soooo 2015...


Yes, earbuds are ideal for those:
-having ear canal infection or otherwise getting discomfort from IEMs eartips
-feeling that fullsize headphones are too clumsy to wear while walking around
-needing some kind of awareness of their surroundings


----------



## HungryPanda

In the summer I wear earbuds all the time


----------



## silverfishla

LigerLaib said:


> People still listen to earbuds.?????!!! Soooo 2015...


Questioning that people still listen to earbuds?  That’s so 2016...and a half.


----------



## HungryPanda

A bit of troll as a first post


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> No problem, it was nice to go out there with a goal.
> 
> On another note, has anyone seen those?
> 
> ...



i have seen this sold on my local forum, but haven't had a chance to try them yet. interesting indeed


----------



## chinmie

LigerLaib said:


> People still listen to earbuds.?????!!! Soooo 2015...



apparently not anymore... but we Demigods still do...we still.... do


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> From Cypherus on the earbuds anonymous FB group
> 
> 
> 
> Limited Edition White Campfred :O


Placed my order this morning.


----------



## seanc6441

doggiemom said:


> Placed my order this morning.


That cable looks too nice! I’m jealous I’d love to hear them but they are pricey buds.


----------



## DBaldock9

DBaldock9 said:


> When I got home from work this afternoon, I tried adding a Hiegi Donut Foam over the Hiegi Full Foam.
> The extra thickness makes a better seal with my ears, and the low Bass level is much improved.



I've probably spent ~29 of the last 31-hours listening to my new EBX (with Hiegi Donut Foam over Hiegi Full Foam), on my Impact Audio 2.5mm TRRS cable, connected to either my F1 Amp, or ES100 BT Receiver/Amp.
.
The really low Bass now has an impact and clarity that's quite impressive - along with the clear & detailed Midrange & Treble.
.
I did find that the silver metal back on the left earpiece was a bit loose, so I pulled it out, added two small drops of glue, and replaced it.


----------



## wskl

LigerLaib said:


> People still listen to earbuds.?????!!! Soooo 2015...



This thread has nearly 2.8 million views, I think it's safe to say that earbuds still have a good following around here.


----------



## Narayan23

wskl said:


> This thread has nearly 2.8 million views, I think it's safe to say that earbuds still have a good following around here.



That number of views was reached by 10 to 15 persons  we know who we are.


----------



## ShabtabQ (Jul 29, 2018)

See what I found, it's probably more than 10 years old but it's so sweet,

Compared with **** PT15 and Monk Plus and I like these Nokia's more.

Full bodied sound, lacks sub-bass but packs good mid bass and highs are soft and shy but yet detailed somewhat, sound stage is intimate, this does give me a sort of headphone feelings tho.


----------



## redkingjoe

wskl said:


> This thread has nearly 2.8 million views, I think it's safe to say that earbuds still have a good following around here.


When I was in the mass transit railway (mtr), I actually saw quite a lot of people using low tech earbuds without knowing there’s inexpensive TOTL around.

I counted and counted...I believe there’s around 3 out of 10 using earbuds


----------



## Danneq

doggiemom said:


> Placed my order this morning.



They reminded me alot of CAX Black when I listened to them, but with a lot less stiff cable.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 29, 2018)

Danneq said:


> They reminded me alot of CAX Black when I listened to them, but with a lot less stiff cable.


Having a soft flexible cable is very underrated and really makes or breaks the final product. It's a nylon/fabric cord right?

That y splitter is truly classy design and the logo looks very cool.

Imagine it came with a metal-alloy mx shell... That's the only thing missing here


----------



## doggiemom

Danneq said:


> They reminded me alot of CAX Black when I listened to them, but with a lot less stiff cable.


That would be awesome!  I love the Black, but rarely listen to them because they pop out of my ears if I so much as turn my head.    I've tried them with the shark fins from the VE expansion packs, but they aren't comfortable for long periods of time.

How did you manage a sneak preview of the White?


----------



## waynes world

dheepak10 said:


> Double review for the day! And the first time I have rated something a full 5 stars
> 
> Moonbuds Bunting
> 
> ...



Thanks. Is pricing listed anywhere?


----------



## rkw

redkingjoe said:


> When I was in the mass transit railway (mtr), I actually saw quite a lot of people using low tech earbuds without knowing there’s inexpensive TOTL around.
> 
> I counted and counted...I believe there’s around 3 out of 10 using earbuds


On my public transit commute, over half of headphone users are on Apple EarPods and AirPods (these count as earbuds). The remainder on various other earbuds, on/over-ear headphones, and IEMs. Overall, maybe one-third (including myself) are on wireless Bluetooth.


----------



## Carrow

Question: where would one buy a pair of stock Docomo earbuds? Been curious about these for a minute.


----------



## mbwilson111

Carrow said:


> Question: where would one buy a pair of stock Docomo earbuds? Been curious about these for a minute.



Do they come with Docomo phones in Japan?


----------



## Danneq

doggiemom said:


> That would be awesome!  I love the Black, but rarely listen to them because they pop out of my ears if I so much as turn my head.    I've tried them with the shark fins from the VE expansion packs, but they aren't comfortable for long periods of time.
> 
> How did you manage a sneak preview of the White?



I got to try them when I met Herry in Tokyo and bought my pair of ZoomFreds. It was still a prototype back then and neither the name nor price was decided yet. 

You can find my post a few pages back in the beginning of July (I'm on a cell phone now and the small screen is inconvenient compared to a tablet or computer).


----------



## doggiemom

Danneq said:


> I got to try them when I met Herry in Tokyo and bought my pair of ZoomFreds. It was still a prototype back then and neither the name nor price was decided yet.
> 
> You can find my post a few pages back in the beginning of July (I'm on a cell phone now and the small screen is inconvenient compared to a tablet or computer).


No worries, I will look, I haven't been keeping up with things as I should.


----------



## dheepak10

waynes world said:


> Thanks. Is pricing listed anywhere?


You can get the model lost and pricing from the FB page. The Bunting is for $180 and Crescent is for $50, if I remember correctly.


----------



## RobinFood

dheepak10 said:


> You can get the model lost and pricing from the FB page. The Bunting is for $180 and Crescent is for $50, if I remember correctly.



The bunting is the one with the pk shells, right? Any idea how it compares to the Willsound pk32, Shozy bk, or Simphonia dragon 2+?


----------



## Carrow (Jul 29, 2018)

dheepak10 said:


> You can get the model lost and pricing from the FB page. The Bunting is for $180 and Crescent is for $50, if I remember correctly.



Crescent starts at $50 for the 4-core cable and the 8-core cable is $80 I believe


----------



## dheepak10

RobinFood said:


> The bunting is the one with the pk shells, right? Any idea how it compares to the Willsound pk32, Shozy bk, or Simphonia dragon 2+?



You can see the my review of both PK32 and Bunting (Links in my signature).
In short - There is no comparison between the two - Bunting is higher in both performance and price. Don't have the Dragon 2+.



Carrow said:


> Crescent starts at $50 for the 4-core cable and the 8-core cable is $80 I believe



I don't recollect the Crescent price exactly. Maybe you are right!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Carrow said:


> Question: where would one buy a pair of stock Docomo earbuds? Been curious about these for a minute.


You might consider buying a pair of Blur Black Panthers from Wong Kuan Wae via his Instagram @ hennagaijin_boleh7... they are Docomos... just nicely modified by Wong who replaces the plug and cable and then retunes the sound.


----------



## Carrow

WoodyLuvr said:


> You might consider buying a pair of Blur Black Panthers from Wong Kuan Wae via his Instagram @ hennagaijin_boleh7... they are Docomos... just nicely modified by Wong who replaces the plug and cable and then retunes the sound.



I just need to make sure I buy single-ended buds from Wong this time hahahah. Might do that


----------



## ClieOS

Do you know what waiting 6 yrs will give you? Here is the bombshell of the day: Blox TM9.




 

Will give this a proper burn-in first before posting any impression, but suffice to say it is a true successor of TM7. I don't have any other info (price, spec, etc) to share at the moment as Woo @ Blox kinda surprised me when he suddenly told me he is sending me this little gem yesterday, and today it is already in my hand.


----------



## Carrow

K's 300 Samsara arrived last week, they're sounding great! I have donuts on over full foams today. Really hefty sound.


----------



## jant71

ClieOS said:


> Do you know what waiting 6 yrs will give you? Here is the bombshell of the day: Blox TM9.
> Will give this a proper burn-in first before posting any impression, but suffice to say it is a true successor of TM7. I don't have any other info (price, spec, etc) to share at the moment as Woo @ Blox kinda surprised me when he suddenly told me he is sending me this little gem yesterday, and today it is already in my hand.



Is it still like TM7 and no amp required, 32ohm stuff. They went higher impedance with the upper B series.


----------



## ClieOS (Jul 31, 2018)

jant71 said:


> Is it still like TM7 and no amp required, 32ohm stuff. They went higher impedance with the upper B series.



Have to do a full impedance curve measurement to know exactly the number but a quick multi-meter measurement says it is 29 ohm. So I will say probably it is gonna be 32 ohm rated.


----------



## golov17

ClieOS said:


> Do you know what waiting 6 yrs will give you? Here is the bombshell of the day: Blox TM9.
> 
> 
> 
> Will give this a proper burn-in first before posting any impression, but suffice to say it is a true successor of TM7. I don't have any other info (price, spec, etc) to share at the moment as Woo @ Blox kinda surprised me when he suddenly told me he is sending me this little gem yesterday, and today it is already in my hand.


Wow!


----------



## mochill

Ima insta buy the tm9... Please let me know about release day :-D


----------



## Danneq (Jul 31, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> Do you know what waiting 6 yrs will give you? Here is the bombshell of the day: Blox TM9.
> 
> 
> 
> Will give this a proper burn-in first before posting any impression, but suffice to say it is a true successor of TM7. I don't have any other info (price, spec, etc) to share at the moment as Woo @ Blox kinda surprised me when he suddenly told me he is sending me this little gem yesterday, and today it is already in my hand.



Cool!

Very interested in these. I find most if not all Cypherus earbuds to be equal to or surpass my pair of TM7, but they are still great after 6 years. The cable on TM9 is upgraded compared to TM7!

The Blox homepage has not been updated for ages. How does one buy Blox earbuds nowadays?


----------



## chinmie

ClieOS said:


> Do you know what waiting 6 yrs will give you? Here is the bombshell of the day: Blox TM9.
> 
> 
> 
> Will give this a proper burn-in first before posting any impression, but suffice to say it is a true successor of TM7. I don't have any other info (price, spec, etc) to share at the moment as Woo @ Blox kinda surprised me when he suddenly told me he is sending me this little gem yesterday, and today it is already in my hand.



if that is the same as the prototype that i got a chance testing a few months ago, then that thing have a great expansive soundstage like the Dragon 2+ (and the usual and typical blox soundstage)


----------



## 40760 (Jul 31, 2018)

EDIT: Okay I found this very good method to cure buzzing or rattling of earbuds drivers.

If you have one of those Camera Lens Blower lying around, try and use it on the back vents of the earbuds removed the buzzing. Beats employing the sucking method...


----------



## mika91 (Jul 31, 2018)

Hi,

After testing several IEM, I can definitively say that'I'm not supporting the sound isolating silicone tips.
So i'd like to find good earbuds, or half in-ear (like bose soundsport: the most comfortable earbuds/IEM/headphone I have ever tested !)

price < 150€
confortable
robust
sound good for: acoustic rock, jazz and classical
easy to drive: smartphone
mmcx connectors (nice to have, but not mandatory)
90° jack connector (nice to have, but not mandatory)
Any suggestion?
thanks


----------



## knudsen

ClieOS said:


> I have two Black Ling, the original version with gold/silver cable and a balanced version with pure silver cable. The original version doesn't have much spike over 1~2kHz area as trying to EQ it down a few dB will make it too over smooth for my taste. The balanced version on the other hand is slightly brighter over these area compared to the single-ended version, though nowhere near as bad that I think it will require an EQ fix. At most it is just a slightly brighter vocal.



Do you think the gold version you have is the one still for sale (the cheaper one)?
For example here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...FI-Fever-DJ-Bass-Earphone-14/32845892015.html

Which do you prefer yourself? 

Thanks


----------



## 40760 (Jul 31, 2018)

EDIT: Removed


----------



## knudsen

palestofwhite said:


> Hmmm.... I think another store on AE is selling it way cheaper...


I know, but I did'nt think one was allowed to link that one from head-fi


----------



## 40760

knudsen said:


> I know, but I did'nt think one was allowed to link that one from head-fi



Uh oh... I didn't know that...


----------



## DAndrew

mika91 said:


> Hi,
> 
> After testing several IEM, I can definitively say that'I'm not supporting the sound isolating silicone tips.
> So i'd like to find good earbuds, or half in-ear (like bose soundsport: the most comfortable earbuds/IEM/headphone I have ever tested !)
> ...



Thats a hard one since most earbuds dont have a 90° jack connector _and _removable cable in that price range. I recommend you get the ToneKing TO400s since it has mmcx connectors so you can buy separate cable that suits your needs.


----------



## mika91 (Jul 31, 2018)

DAndrew said:


> Thats a hard one since most earbuds dont have a 90° jack connector _and _removable cable in that price range. I recommend you get the ToneKing TO400s since it has mmcx connectors so you can buy separate cable that suits your needs.


ok, I'll edit my post.
My top priorities are sound quality and comfort.
MMCX and cable are only a nice to have


----------



## DAndrew

mika91 said:


> ok, I'll edit my post.
> My top priorities are sound quality and comfort.
> MMCX and cable are only a nice to have



Still, the ToneKing TO400s is what I'll recommend, fits your requirements; mmcx, metal build and they are comfortable.


----------



## ClieOS

knudsen said:


> Do you think the gold version you have is the one still for sale (the cheaper one)?
> For example here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...FI-Fever-DJ-Bass-Earphone-14/32845892015.html
> 
> Which do you prefer yourself?
> ...



It seems to be the case, but you really should ask the AE seller to confirm.

I personally prefer the silver cable version but they both sound really good.


----------



## HungryPanda

I actually prefer Toneking TO200 to TO400s as they have a better amount of bass that suits me


----------



## mika91 (Jul 31, 2018)

I've read that TO200 and TO400s are not easy to drive. right?
I plan to use them with my smartphone


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> I actually prefer Toneking TO200 to TO400s as they have a better amount of bass that suits me


which I think you need coming from IEM’s to adapt easier to the more open sound effecting sub bass quantity.


----------



## DAndrew

mika91 said:


> I've read that TO400s are not easy to drive.
> Are the toneking too ?
> I plan to use them with my smartphone



While they are 400 ohms they are quite easy to drive and a smartphone will do the job.


----------



## seanc6441

mika91 said:


> I've read that TO400s are not easy to drive.
> Are the toneking too ?
> I plan to use them with my smartphone


TO400s is 400ohm and TO200 is 200ohm. I cannot say about the 200 but hungry panda can. I would NOT drive the 400 from a smartphone unless you have something like a V20. Most won’t really satisfy with enough power for this earbud to bring out it’s potential.


----------



## seanc6441

DAndrew said:


> While they are 400 ohms they are quite easy to drive and a smartphone will do the job.


I found them to lack on my 6s but v20 had enough power. But I found them to sound better again on my more powerful R6 dap, so I guess the 200 will perform a little better again on phones.


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> I found them to lack on my 6s but v20 had enough power. But I found them to sound better again on my more powerful R6 dap, so I guess the 200 will perform a little better again on phones.



While there is a difference between my S7 and my DragonFly 1.2, its 20% at most so imo it can be driven rather well from a smartphone.


----------



## activatorfly

HungryPanda said:


> I actually prefer Toneking TO200 to TO400s as they have a better amount of bass that suits me


I've ordered TO200....not had an issue driving 150 ohm buds - so maybe 200 will be the sweet spot!


----------



## ClieOS

mochill said:


> Ima insta buy the tm9... Please let me know about release day :-D





Danneq said:


> Cool!
> 
> Very interested in these. I find most if not all Cypherus earbuds to be equal to or surpass my pair of TM7, but they are still great after 6 years. The cable on TM9 is upgraded compared to TM7!
> 
> The Blox homepage has not been updated for ages. How does one buy Blox earbuds nowadays?



Got a bit more info from Blox - final price is yet to be set, and they are still waiting for the last part to come in before going into mass production. However, the one I have is the same as the final release. Last but not least, the release day should be around early mid August.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 31, 2018)

Thanks @Carrow

Got my Zen lites and TI7! And I have to say the TI7's have something special about them. Similar tonality to the shozy bk but with more upper mids. I did EQ it a bit because I like treble and the bass needed a boost, but it handles EQ excellently.

Really excellent imaging and medium sized staging but with nice separation. Sounds like a vintage/analog headphone tuning. The driver does sound high quality. Looks it too!

Zens will have to be evaluated later I'm enjoying the TI7 too much now


----------



## ClieOS

BGVP DX3s
PMV BE
Blox TM9


----------



## subwoof3r

ClieOS said:


> Do you know what waiting 6 yrs will give you? Here is the bombshell of the day: Blox TM9.
> 
> 
> 
> Will give this a proper burn-in first before posting any impression, but suffice to say it is a true successor of TM7. I don't have any other info (price, spec, etc) to share at the moment as Woo @ Blox kinda surprised me when he suddenly told me he is sending me this little gem yesterday, and today it is already in my hand.


OMG! Blox is back! excellent news


----------



## BoomBap08

Can anybody compare the Willsound MK3 vs the MK2 Rev2 and the TY Hi-Z 150S?


----------



## seanc6441

Further listening to the TI7 and I love every aspect of it except for it being somewhat bass light. If this earbud had more bass quantity and extension I'd be calling it the best available under $80, even as is currently it's a contender. Competing with the Rose Masya, BS1 on most fronts but with a signature more towards the analog tuning of the shozy bk but with a slightly musical tilt which sounds excellent and non fatiguing.

Detail is top quality, the drivers are very well controlled and can be pushed with EQ so far as to add notable bass impact and adequate depth. Which is what I've done. Imaging and stereo separation are also very impressive.

The cable is just amazing build quality for the price. Very soft and with no microphonics. The L plug is metal and plastic (carbon fibre look) and really sturdy/strong. The shell also has a great build and sleek finish. The design is actually pretty comfortable despite being squared off at the head. It could have been rounded slightly or made slightly thinner to fit into the ear more snuggly but as is it's not an issue for my ear.


----------



## loomisjohnson

having only recently gotten into buds, i'm looking for more recs in the higher-impedance 50-150 ohm realm. i'm currently enjoying the faaeal snow lotus and he 150pro--any thoughts on the  toneking 65/150? anything comparable at <$50?
many thank in advance


----------



## capnjack

I think I’ll just leave this here!


----------



## seanc6441

capnjack said:


> I think I’ll just leave this here!


Do you know what drivers they use? Hows the SQ?

Love it regardless, but would be cool if they sounded the part too


----------



## capnjack (Aug 1, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Do you know what drivers they use? Hows the SQ?
> 
> Love it regardless, but would be cool if they sounded the part too


Bearing in mind I’ve had these for about 45 mins I really can’t say how they’ll sound in a couple of weeks! But o.o.t.b impression is that they’re a keeper!  Seem to have bass that goes down quite deep, mids are pleasant with a good amount of crunch and detail, treble seems articulate and detailed with no hint of sibilance or harshness. Vocals, both male and female are up front and central. Have to say that the shell is quite small! It’s custom made by Ryo.
Listening to The Collection - The Shamen


----------



## capnjack

I have no idea what drivers Ryo uses or the impedance of them I'm afraid, but they certainly sound promising.


----------



## audio123

HungryPanda said:


> I actually prefer Toneking TO200 to TO400s as they have a better amount of bass that suits me


I personally feel in terms of the technical aspect, the TO400s is much better. What do you use to drive the earbuds?


----------



## seanc6441

capnjack said:


> I have no idea what drivers Ryo uses or the impedance of them I'm afraid, but they certainly sound promising.


Thanks for the responses, good to know they are competitive sound wise.


----------



## silverfishla

ClieOS said:


> BGVP DX3s
> PMV BE
> Blox TM9


What are those PMV Be earbuds?  Are those new?  How do they sound?


----------



## HungryPanda

audio123 said:


> I personally feel in terms of the technical aspect, the TO400s is much better. What do you use to drive the earbuds?


If at home Fostex HPA4BL. On the road iBasso DX200, Lotoo Paw 5000 mk2, either on their own or via ifi DSD black label


----------



## mika91 (Aug 1, 2018)

ok.
So after some searchs, I selected 3 differents earbuds:

Fengru DIY EXM500 - 10$
Panda Pk2s - 20$
OutArt TI7 - 60$
All have good reviews, 32 ohm impedance.
Even if the TI7 is  way more expansive, it has mmcx connectors and better durability.
But if we consider sound only, does the 3 earbuds compete in different leagues, or it's just subtile nuances or sound signature difference?
For accoustic rock, jazz and classical music, which one is better?
And on comfort side, should I expect big differences?

Thanks

Another contender is the VE Monk+
It seems less good than the others, but available in next day delivery with amazon


----------



## mbwilson111

mika91 said:


> Another contender is the VE Monk+
> It seems less good than the others, but available in next day delivery with amazon



That is a good place to start to see if you like the fit of that type of shell.  You can always add something else later (or soon).  Always good to have a backup bud anyway.  I don't personally have the others that you mentioned but I have so have more than just the Monk.

My first bud was the Monk + because I could get it the next day  I still enjoy it.


----------



## knudsen

mika91 said:


> ok.
> So after some searchs, I selected 3 differents earbuds:
> 
> Fengru DIY EXM500 - 10$
> ...


Get the EMX500 (I will suggest the EMX500s instead, just another cable), it has been voted most popular earbud several times on the EA facebook group, and it is known to be excellent for rock and at least according to me it is also excellent for jazz and classical.

The monk was IMO most of all cleverly marketed several years ago and its a wonder in the earbud world that the hype won't die out.

Chances are you will like the EMX500 best


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 1, 2018)

mika91 said:


> ok.
> So after some searchs, I selected 3 differents earbuds:
> 
> Fengru DIY EXM500 - 10$
> ...


If your source has the option to EQ adding a bass boost I'd suggest the TI7 way ahead of the other two for those genres as it has the best detail, best treble extension and best imaging. EMX500 has more bass depth abd impact but I think other factors are very important for a good acoustic rock/jazz bud too. Which the TI7 covers.

If no EQ is available you'll probably appreciate the bass impact and soundstage of the EMX500.

There's a TI7 for sale in the FS section for $48 which the seller has as 'like-new' condition. If you're in the US it might be worth making a deal for them.

You could buy the monk plus as a tester unit, but if you are already on a budget I personally suggest not reduce it buying some buds that are not as versatile as the $5 more EMX500 and a level or two down from the TI7 in my opinion.

With the bass boost on my TI7 I really love it for acoustic, rock, jazz and I'll even try classical on it now. It's closer compared to my $100 earbuds for quality than any $10 earbuds I've heard. Definitely think it has a great SQ for those genres.


----------



## mika91

Ok, thanks for your quick feedbacks.
I think Spotify has an embedded EQ now. 
I'll test it tomorrow.


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 1, 2018)

mika91 said:


> Ok, thanks for your quick feedbacks.
> I think Spotify has an embedded EQ now.
> I'll test it tomorrow.


Are you on an android? Spotify EQ really sucks as it doesn't have the option to adjust 60hz.

I recommend EQ RE for android, has a much better graphical EQ.

If all that doesn't appeal to you the emx500 would be a good option too (better than monk imo) as it has a great sound in stock form with a nice big soundstage too. Still a good buy at $10.


----------



## mika91

Yes I'm on Android, ans yes you're right: Spotify EQ sucks... I'll give EQ Re a try tomorrow.

I'm convinced that emx500 will be good enough, but I feel more attracted by the TI7 for now.
It'll be another reason vs pleasure choice I guess


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 1, 2018)

mika91 said:


> Yes I'm on Android, ans yes you're right: Spotify EQ sucks... I'll give EQ Re a try tomorrow.
> 
> I'm convinced that emx500 will be good enough, but I feel more attracted by the TI7 for now.
> It'll be another reason vs pleasure choice I guess


You can do the buy and try thing and if you don't want it hit 'refund'  in the playstore within the time limit.

I wish it was a parametric EQ but as is it's the best EQ that actually works with spotify. Here's a screenshot to give you an idea what you are getting





As you can see I have the 'deep bass' featured enabled for the TI7 as I suspect it's the apps method of applying EQ below 32hz, it seems effective and not destroying the SQ at all like some of these special effects add ons do.


----------



## mika91

Waouh, thanks for the screenshot.
The EQ is needed only for sub 32hz frequencies?
Or does 'Deep Bass' boost all the bass spectrum? l didn't expected that small earbuds could render properly below 40 or 60hz!


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 1, 2018)

mika91 said:


> Waouh, thanks for the screenshot.
> The EQ is needed only for sub 32hz frequencies?
> Or does 'Deep Bass' boost all the bass spectrum? l didn't expected that small earbuds could render properly below 40 or 60hz!


I only have suspicions that it boosts in a 'low shelf' type format (so like sloping from maybe 16hz to 150hz) whereas the 32 hz slider is probably a standard bell EQ so it will be strongest at 32 hz.

Yes most earbuds today extend to about 30hz audible, the emx500 actually goes lower, my $200 ks ling goes to like 12-16hz and gets powerful at like 25hz 

For the TI7 I think the screenshot settings above sounds best on my LG V20 to give it respectable bass presence which it lacks in stock form. These settings give it an amazing balance but obviously the upper frequencies need to be adjusted by your own ear and according to your own source


----------



## seanc6441

mika91 said:


> Waouh, thanks for the screenshot.
> The EQ is needed only for sub 32hz frequencies?
> Or does 'Deep Bass' boost all the bass spectrum? l didn't expected that small earbuds could render properly below 40 or 60hz!


I guess it depends on the definition of properly, the best bass earbuds can easily do it, the average earbud goes to about 30hz but does have significant roll off in the sub bass.

Some have less roll off and can atleast sound pleasant bass wise even coming from full size open back headphones. Just depends on the earbud.


----------



## ClieOS

silverfishla said:


> What are those PMV Be earbuds?  Are those new?  How do they sound?



Yes, it is quite new. It is meant to be an entry level earbud for PMV, costing just around $7 or so on Taobao, but surprisingly good sounding. It has a kind of a non offensive 'jack of all trade' sound signature that goes well with most music genre, neither particularly analytical nor veil, bass heavy nor bass lacking. It is just a good all arounder and well worth the asking price.


----------



## audio123

HungryPanda said:


> If at home Fostex HPA4BL. On the road iBasso DX200, Lotoo Paw 5000 mk2, either on their own or via ifi DSD black label


I guess they are powerful enough to drive those earbuds


----------



## 40760

Talking about down with luck...

Had to ship back my Astrotec Lyra Collection today for a buzzing driver which I couldn't fix myself, and also a minor manufacturing defect/dent on one of the driver shell...

It seems like I can never get anything perfect out of the box...


----------



## subwoof3r

palestofwhite said:


> Talking about down with luck...
> 
> Had to ship back my Astrotec Lyra Collection today for a buzzing driver which I couldn't fix myself, and also a minor manufacturing defect/dent on one of the driver shell...
> 
> It seems like I can never get anything perfect out of the box...


Looks like the serie continue.. :/ hope you will sort this out

I finally reached a good solution yesterday with Jim (about my EBX), and we agreed that he send to me 2 new drivers (both L and R) as it is not recommended to change only 1 driver (as sound will not be the same).
Not sure to receive them in a week, otherwise they will wait me once I come back from my holidays


----------



## 40760

subwoof3r said:


> Looks like the serie continue.. :/ hope you will sort this out
> 
> I finally reached a good solution yesterday with Jim (about my EBX), and we agreed that he send to me 2 new drivers (both L and R) as it is not recommended to change only 1 driver (as sound will not be the same).
> Not sure to receive them in a week, otherwise they will wait me once I come back from my holidays



I hope it all works out well for you this time!

It's such a pain to have to deal with such QC issues... or the therefore lack of in the Chinese earbuds market...

But I trust that Penon Audio will thoroughly inspect and verify the issues at hand. Hopefully they'll just replace the whole unit for me, as I expect no less from a pair of US$299 earbuds.

In my books, either the right buzzing driver or the chipped/dented "copper bead maze-filter" on the left outer shell, should already warrant a 1 to 1 exchange for a brand piece.

One can only hope...


----------



## capnjack

seanc6441 said:


> Do you know what drivers they use? Hows the SQ?
> 
> Love it regardless, but would be cool if they sounded the part too


Just had a reply from Ryo, apparently he uses 24, 32 and 64 ohm drivers and mine are 32’s   Still burning them but I’m sneaking a quick listen here and there!


----------



## Slater (Aug 2, 2018)

Hey guys, I’m looking for an earbud that has pancake flat tuning and neutral and natural tonality. Very average/middle-of-the-road soundstage and clarity would be best.

Very boring and the opposite of fun lol.

Basically I’m only going to be using it to “reset my brain” before evaluating gear, ie to use as a baseline profile. Similar to drinking water between wine or bourbon samples to reset the taste palette.

Make sense?

My budget is say $5-$30. But I may be persuaded to go as high as $40.

I will be driving it from an iPhone as well as xduoo X3. So nothing super high impedance (ie <64ohm).

Thanks!


----------



## silverfishla

Slater said:


> Hey guys, I’m looking for an earbud that has pancake flat tuning and neutral and natural tonality. Very average/middle-of-the-road soundstage and clarity would be best.
> 
> Very boring and the opposite of fun lol.
> 
> ...


I think you would like the Moondrop Nameless.  Its’ tuning Is Neutral but has great tonality.  And, it’s right in your price range.


----------



## Slater

silverfishla said:


> I think you would like the Moondrop Nameless.  Its’ tuning Is Neutral but has great tonality.  And, it’s right in your price range.



I’ll check that out.

What about the Snow Lotus (1.0 or 2.0)?


----------



## silverfishla

Slater said:


> I’ll check that out.
> 
> What about the Snow Lotus (1.0 or 2.0)?


Snow Lotus 2.0 is good too.  The sound is more upfront and has bigger bass, but the treble is a bit shy.  I would choose the Nameless for what you described more.
But, there’s always a next time if you’re going down that road many of us have travelled...


----------



## 40760

I think I uncovered something shady today. I reached out to Astrotec and they claimed my seller of their Lyra Collection is apparently not one of their authorised dealer.

Anyone happen to be in the same shoes as me before? Bought something from somewhere reputable to find that they're not the official dealer, so the product company refuses to discuss any further?

It was my good intention that I approached Astrotec to notify them about their shortfall in QC, but all it seems to matter to them is who's covering the warranty. They even care to ask what were the issues I was facing with their product.

Should I perhaps probe the seller about their warranty and exchange policies?


----------



## rkw

Slater said:


> Hey guys, I’m looking for an earbud that has pancake flat tuning and neutral and natural tonality. Very average/middle-of-the-road soundstage and clarity would be best.


I recommend the PMV B01 Aeode. Very neutral, uncolored sound. I listen primarily to classical music, where neutrality is important for faithful reproduction of unamplified acoustic instruments. I actually find the PMV to portray the sound of a live classical performance better than some TOTL earbuds such as Rose Mojito, which has a hyper detailed (but unnatural) sound to appeal to audiophiles.


----------



## ShabtabQ

seanc6441 said:


> You can do the buy and try thing and if you don't want it hit 'refund'  in the playstore within the time limit.
> 
> I wish it was a parametric EQ but as is it's the best EQ that actually works with spotify. Here's a screenshot to give you an idea what you are getting
> 
> ...



What app is this Sir?


----------



## mbwilson111

rkw said:


> I recommend the PMV B01 Aeode. Very neutral, uncolored sound. I listen primarily to classical music, where neutrality is important for faithful reproduction of unamplified acoustic instruments. I actually find the PMV to portray the sound of a live classical performance better than some TOTL earbuds such as Rose Mojito, which has a hyper detailed (but unnatural) sound to appeal to audiophiles.



Now you  have made me want to get out my PMV today.  Great bud.


----------



## redkingjoe

palestofwhite said:


> I think I uncovered something shady today. I reached out to Astrotec and they claimed my seller of their Lyra Collection is apparently not one of their authorised dealer.
> 
> Anyone happen to be in the same shoes as me before? Bought something from somewhere reputable to find that they're not the official dealer, so the product company refuses to discuss any further?
> 
> ...



OMG!

So Penon Audio is not an authorised reseller of Astrotec!

A lot of us buying different brands from PA! How many more of these products are not authorised products?

It’s very scary! If the products are not authorised, there are a few channels for PA to get the product for resale...one of them is buying second quality or products that is rejected from QC, which were supposed to be destroyed! Of course, PA might be having collusion with a factory that produces it! ( according to Trump collusion is not crime). But my worries is the replacement is still a second in some sense! 

So if any replacement is still not good enough, I would try to opt for a refund and use the money to buy direct!


----------



## 40760

redkingjoe said:


> OMG!
> 
> So Penon Audio is not an authorised reseller of Astrotec!
> 
> ...



I'm trying to not blow things out of proportion as I cannot be sure of how it exactly works in this case.

According to PA, they have a credible source for Astrotec products and they rest me assured that they have no issues with my RMA. I told them I trust them as I have no reason not to, since they have not given me any bad service or problems when it comes to returns and exchange (at least not so at this point).

I'm assuming only a rare few brands they have no authorised dealership over, which Astrotec just so happens to be one of them? Astrotec products are also not listed on their AE store but only on their official store. I didn't bother to enquire why, but it might have something to do with this.

Anyway, your case of having second quality or factory rejects are not uncommon, but I can only hope for the best for now. As long as the replaced product is in good physical and working condition that's all I can ask for now...

If in any case the replacement is unsatisfactory, I'll consider a refund, which Astrotec themselves have already told me to go for if PA can't replace.


----------



## redkingjoe

palestofwhite said:


> I'm trying to not blow things out of proportion as I cannot be sure of how it exactly works in this case.
> 
> According to PA, they have a credible source for Astrotec products and they rest me assured that they have no issues with my RMA. I told them I trust them as I have no reason not to, since they have not given me any bad service or problems when it comes to returns and exchange (at least not so at this point).
> 
> ...



I did read somewhere Astrotec will give 2 years guarantee! So even if you have got a good replacement, make sure you will get that 2 year warranty from PA.

Actually, many of the brands nowadays don’t even hold physical stock in China. When a customer anywhere orders a earbud, the manufacturer will directly mail the stock to the customer. This save a lot of costs. So, in some case other unauthorised resellers colluding with the manufacturer to ship goods on their behalf. The seller simply undercut the owner. In another case, the seller might share the product from other authorised sellers.

Hopefully, PA is not using second or rejected products. Actually, I came from a poor family. As a kid, I bought a lot of big name second quality product.(just like factory outlet)!


----------



## Narayan23

mbwilson111 said:


> Now you  have made me want to get out my PMV today.  Great bud.



I must have gotten a dud because my experience with them was bittersweet. Bitter in that sub-bass was nowhere to be found and I couldn´t stand listening to them for more than 2 songs, I relegated them to movie watching but even there the sound signature bothered me, foam rolling didn´t help either and despite the excellent clarity the lack of bass made them too shrill for me. The sweet part was that the friend I gave them to had just broken the crappy IEM´s that came with his phone and he thought the PMV was "da bomb", I think they call It collateral benefit


----------



## 40760

redkingjoe said:


> I did read somewhere Astrotec will give 2 years guarantee! So even if you have got a good replacement, make sure you will get that 2 year warranty from PA.
> 
> Actually, many of the brands nowadays don’t even hold physical stock in China. When a customer anywhere orders a earbud, the manufacturer will directly mail the stock to the customer. This save a lot of costs. So, in some case other unauthorised resellers colluding with the manufacturer to ship goods on their behalf. The seller simply undercut the owner. In another case, the seller might share the product from other authorised sellers.
> 
> Hopefully, PA is not using second or rejected products. Actually, I came from a poor family. As a kid, I bought a lot of big name second quality product.(just like factory outlet)!



I think we're pretty much in the same boat. Therefore I truly value the $299 I paid for this so called TOTL earbuds.

I'm hoping, but I have no control if the products I've received are actually seconds or QC rejects. When I first received them, the box was sealed and if it were repackaged, I wouldn't be surprised since they have those cling wrap machines are readily available in the market.

What surprised me was how bad the QC was for a TOTL item. A buzzing driver and chipped backing on the driver could be tell tale signs of the possibilities you've mentioned. The next time I purchase anything, I'll have to do my due diligence to check that they are the official dealers. It's no wonder when I asked for a receipt for warranty that PA said it was not necessary. And the first time I asked about warranty they said it was 1 year. Then again, I have myself to blame for failing to see the red flags.

But in total fairness, PA has been very accommodating with my requests. Only after this replacement, which should happen sometime next week (as they're still in transit), will I be able to comment and make judgement of this 3rd party warranty. I guess everyone deserves to know about this, so as to protect themselves when purchasing online.

If I could have checked the goods like in a physical store front, I would have rejected this set right away...


----------



## seanc6441

ShabtabQ said:


> What app is this Sir?


'RE EQ'

From the google play store.


----------



## rkw

Narayan23 said:


> I must have gotten a dud because my experience with them was bittersweet. Bitter in that sub-bass was nowhere to be found and I couldn´t stand listening to them for more than 2 songs, I relegated them to movie watching but even there the sound signature bothered me, foam rolling didn´t help either and despite the excellent clarity the lack of bass made them too shrill for me. The sweet part was that the friend I gave them to had just broken the crappy IEM´s that came with his phone and he thought the PMV was "da bomb", I think they call It collateral benefit


Which earbuds do you like, and what music do you listen to?


----------



## Narayan23

rkw said:


> Which earbuds do you like, and what music do you listen to?



I don´t have many buds at the moment but I´m really fond of the FAAEAL Snow Lotus 2.0 (if they had the bass of the Seahf AWK-F32T they would be almost perfect for me) and the "old" NiceHCK DIY MX760 Graphene are also a favourite, despite them having slightly recessed mids for my liking I also reach for them often.

I listen to everything from classical to rap metal but my true love is rock followed by dance and pop.


----------



## Narayan23

rkw said:


> Which earbuds do you like, and what music do you listen to?



What about yourself rkw? What buds and music make your heart beat faster?


----------



## ChrisGarrett

mbwilson111 said:


> Now you  have made me want to get out my PMV today.  Great bud.



I've been in this 'earphone' hobby for about 3 weeks.  I don't subscribe to the 'V-sound', so thank you for your recommendation and the other guy's, whom you quoted.

I just bought the GeekWorld jobbie and MusicMaker ToneKing TS1, so the PMV will be next up on my list, to go along with my ZST and Symphonized NRG 3.0.

As a longtime HIFi stereo guy, I want as 'neutral' as possible and I'll deal with the consequences down the road.

Thanks for the 'direction.'

Chris


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 3, 2018)

ChrisGarrett said:


> I've been in this 'earphone' hobby for about 3 weeks.  I don't subscribe to the 'V-sound', so thank you for your recommendation and the other guy's, whom you quoted.
> 
> I just bought the GeekWorld jobbie and MusicMaker ToneKing TS1, so the PMV will be next up on my list, to go along with my ZST and Symphonized NRG 3.0.
> 
> ...





ChrisGarrett said:


> I've been in this 'earphone' hobby for about 3 weeks.  I don't subscribe to the 'V-sound', so thank you for your recommendation and the other guy's, whom you quoted.
> 
> I just bought the GeekWorld jobbie and MusicMaker ToneKing TS1, so the PMV will be next up on my list, to go along with my ZST and Symphonized NRG 3.0.
> 
> ...


Hi chris I find sometimes in the earbud world 'neutral' is mischaracterised by a signature with rolled off bass and/or treble. So keep that in mind compared to speakers/headphones where neutral is more flat and well extended.

This is partly a limitation of the small drivers on earbuds but some do have respectable sub bass for the form factor and an extended treble. Which I'd argue is more neutral than other earbuds that are considered fairly neutral sounding from mid bass to low treble until you get to both ends of the spectrum (more so the low end though).


----------



## ChrisGarrett

seanc6441 said:


> Hi chris I find sometimes in the earbud world 'neutral' is mischaracterised by a signature with rolled off bass and/or treble. So keep that in mind compared to speakers/headphones where neutral is more flat and well extended.
> 
> This is partly a limitation of the small drivers on earbuds but some do have respectable sub bass for the form factor and an extended treble. Which I'd argue is more neutral than other earbuds that are considered fairly neutral sounding from mid bass to low treble until you get to both ends of the spectrum (more so the low end though).



Thanks for the reply Sean,

I'm new to earbuds, IEMs and headphones, never really getting 'into' them in my previous 40+ years in the HiFi hobby.

My loss.

At least with HiFi, nothing is truly 'neutral', as everything...even 'digital filters' have a sonic signature.  I'm a valve/tube guy, so I totally understand that one person's 'neutral' is another person's 'colored.'

What I'm finding, having viewed some of the frequency response graphs on IEMs here, is that things are all over the map and anything but plus/minus (+/-) 3dB (a standard.  However, some of this stuff looks like an epileptic tried drawing a straight line while experiencing a seizure.

I want something flat, or as close to flat as I can achieve, as I do with my home HiFi stuff.  That will never happen, but while there are varying degrees of flat, the 'V-sound' doesn't seem to be cutting it IME.  I realize that we all like what we like, but none of my gear has 'tone controls' for good reasons--I want to hear the recording as it's recorded--warts and all.  That way I have a good indication of what's what.

Anyhow, this is all 'new' to me and while I'm dropping only about $22 each, on my 4 IEMs, I'm now looking for things that are less 'peaky,' if that makes any sense?

I'm a believer in holding the recording engineer to the flame and then forming an opinion regarding the work rendered.  I have lots of experience in vinyl/SACDs/DVD~As and while no format/system is prefect, there are some of those, that get closer to the mark.

I might be chasing a unicorn and with a 2004 iPod, my source kind of blows, but I don't need to be behind the 8-ball, out of the gate, which is what's prompting my questions.

Thanks, Chris


----------



## mochill

Someone lives close to me


----------



## chinmie

Slater said:


> Hey guys, I’m looking for an earbud that has pancake flat tuning and neutral and natural tonality. Very average/middle-of-the-road soundstage and clarity would be best.
> 
> Very boring and the opposite of fun lol.
> 
> ...



neutralish buds you could try are the **** PT15, Auglamour RX1 (bit warmer), and up the price a bit is Willsound MK300


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 3, 2018)

ChrisGarrett said:


> Thanks for the reply Sean,
> 
> I'm new to earbuds, IEMs and headphones, never really getting 'into' them in my previous 40+ years in the HiFi hobby.
> 
> ...





ChrisGarrett said:


> Thanks for the reply Sean,
> 
> I'm new to earbuds, IEMs and headphones, never really getting 'into' them in my previous 40+ years in the HiFi hobby.
> 
> ...


It's so tricky at that price to find neutrality and a fairly good extension on both ends. There are some good drivers but most have to be EQ'd for a flat response in all honesty which is not what you want.

Someone mentioned the PMV BO1 aoede on the other page for a flat response, but you will absolutely not get flat response + impressive end to end extension in one eaebud at that price but I guess that would be asking too much for a budget earbud.


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> neutralish buds you could try are the **** PT15, Auglamour RX1 (bit warmer), and up the price a bit is Willsound MK300


I'm guessing MK300 would be the best choice there, especially for extension of bass. Good price too for what you get in these Willsounds.

Although I'll have to make a criticism of the mk2 after having it for awhile now. The imaging is pretty blurry. I notice in going from my Masya or now the Ourart TI7 or even the pk32, to my mk2. 

It's just not what I'd call precise, mainly due how it's ported I reckon. The bottom of the earpiece has an extra port that most mx500 shells dont have, i think its am extra bass port or adjusts the sound presentation slightly, but it may also be messing with the imaging somewhat.

In your opinion does the mk2 image more like the pk32 or mk2?


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> I'm guessing MK300 would be the best choice there, especially for extension of bass. Good price too for what you get in these Willsounds.
> 
> Although I'll have to make a criticism of the mk2 after having it for awhile now. The imaging is pretty blurry. I notice in going from my Masya or now the Ourart TI7 or even the pk32, to my mk2.
> 
> ...



if you said the MK2's imaging is blurry compared to the others you mentioned, then i suspect that because of the midbass thump of the MK2 that's causing it. the MK300 is more similar to the PK32  with lesser subbass, so it is more neutral and might come across as unexciting to some (especially after hearing "fun" tunings like the MK2 and other more V shaped earphones). i like it though, it's one of that buds that you just wear and forget, nice substitute for a room speaker playing while you work. i also like them for low volume listening because of the forward mids and even bass treble.


----------



## redkingjoe

palestofwhite said:


> I think we're pretty much in the same boat. Therefore I truly value the $299 I paid for this so called TOTL earbuds.
> 
> I'm hoping, but I have no control if the products I've received are actually seconds or QC rejects. When I first received them, the box was sealed and if it were repackaged, I wouldn't be surprised since they have those cling wrap machines are readily available in the market.
> 
> ...



OMG, 1 year warranty...What ripping off!  I have a stylus pen that I bought in brick and mortar store. The pen had problems a few times and I’ve got replacements every time, no questions asked as long as the warranty is valid. Warranty worths a lot, especially if the product is ageing.

It feels so damned hurt being cheated.  When I was a teen, I had got being cheated many times buying electronic products. I didn’t even know who to be blamed. Purchase a new gift to oneself should be a pleasant experience in life! 

So they will give you 2 years now?


----------



## 40760

redkingjoe said:


> OMG, 1 year warranty...What ripping off!  I have a stylus pen that I bought in brick and mortar store. The pen had problems a few times and I’ve got replacements every time, no questions asked as long as the warranty is valid. Warranty worths a lot, especially if the product is ageing.
> 
> It feels so damned hurt being cheated.  When I was a teen, I had got being cheated many times buying electronic products. I didn’t even know who to be blamed. Purchase a new gift to oneself should be a pleasant experience in life!
> 
> So they will give you 2 years now?



After I told PA that it's 2 years according to Astrotec's website, they said it's 1 year free warranty, after that year I just have to pay for shipping to and return for any servicing. So I'm guessing it's 2 years.

But then again, for this round of replacement which falls within the first year, I paid to ship it back to them. So I don't really understand how it works. Not that it costs a lot to ship from SG to HK to being with, but I don't think the shipping to is covered. Maybe the shipping back is covered at their part.

I got cheated when I was younger too... in fact I get cheated most of the time out of goodwill. I'm very trusting of people.


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> The BGVP DX3 sounds pretty close to the EBX. Of either I thought I preferred the TO400 but now I have the TO200 I'm happier with extra bass it offers



The same technique that worked for my ears, to get a better seal, and really improve the low Bass of the EBX, also works for the TO400s - I placed a Hiegi Donut foam over a Hiegi Full Foam, but I suspect any _thick-ish_ set of foams would work.  Is this something that you've tried?  It could work, depending on your ears, and how well the various earbuds seal in them already.


----------



## seanc6441

Very tempted to try out the moonbuds, absolutely stunning looking build and cable. Plus the TOTL bud is a PK shell <3


----------



## Matarro

HungryPanda said:


> The BGVP DX3 sounds pretty close to the EBX. Of either I thought I preferred the TO400 but now I have the TO200 I'm happier with extra bass it offers


How do you think TO200 compares to Svara-L?


----------



## DBaldock9

Matarro said:


> How do you think TO200 compares to Svara-L?



I have the Svara-L (115Ω), and it has more Bass than the TO200, but not nearly as much Midrange & Treble - so it sounds warmer / darker.


----------



## HungryPanda

The Svara-L has a more refined sound and the bass is more present than the Toneking TO200, The TO200 has more energy. It may be because I wear the Svara-L over ear and the TO200 down. I also listen to the TO200 balanced


----------



## HungryPanda

DBaldock9 said:


> The same technique that worked for my ears, to get a better seal, and really improve the low Bass of the EBX, also works for the TO400s - I placed a Hiegi Donut foam over a Hiegi Full Foam, but I suspect any _thick-ish_ set of foams would work.  Is this something that you've tried?  It could work, depending on your ears, and how well the various earbuds seal in them already.


 That is how I have my Moondrop Nameless, I will give it a try


----------



## Matarro

DBaldock9 said:


> I have the Svara-L (115Ω), and it has more Bass than the TO200, but not nearly as much Midrange & Treble - so it sounds warmer / darker.





HungryPanda said:


> The Svara-L has a more refined sound and the bass is more present than the Toneking TO200, The TO200 has more energy. It may be because I wear the Svara-L over ear and the TO200 down. I also listen to the TO200 balanced



Guess I'll add TO200 to the list of interesting buds too then. Although I haven't felt like buying anything in a while but maybe the urge will return.


----------



## activatorfly

HungryPanda said:


> That is how I have my Moondrop Nameless, I will give it a try


Think I'll try the above dual foam combination too....when my TO200 & balanced 7N cable arrive - looking forward to extended sub-bass & a wide/deep-soundstage experience!


----------



## silverfishla

When I started out on this earbud trip a year and a half ago, I thought that compared to the iem game, earbuds were a great value for the sound.  Although I am happy that earbuds are getting a good second (maybe third) look as to their usefulness and enjoyment, I’m not so happy about the price increases that I’ve seen for so-called totl buds (most of which are not).  The $50 to $100 range seems to be so popular right now.  I think it’s way too much money for what you get.  The script is being flipped with something like the Tin Audio T2 iem which is a dual dynamic driver, in a nice metal shell, detatchable cable and costs $43.  That sounds so good for the money and I would put it on par with a Rose earbud if I were comparing.


----------



## Slater (Aug 4, 2018)

activatorfly said:


> Think I'll try the above dual foam combination too....when my TO200 & balanced 7N cable arrive - looking forward to extended sub-bass & a wide/deep-soundstage experience!



You can always try wearing them sideways (ie vertically). That's how I get extended sub bass. You just can't go skydiving or run a marathon with them in like that. But for sitting on the couch etc it works great.


----------



## seanc6441

silverfishla said:


> When I started out on this earbud trip a year and a half ago, I thought that compared to the iem game, earbuds were a great value for the sound.  Although I am happy that earbuds are getting a good second (maybe third) look as to their usefulness and enjoyment, I’m not so happy about the price increases that I’ve seen for so-called totl buds (most of which are not).  The $50 to $100 range seems to be so popular right now.  I think it’s way too much money for what you get.  The script is being flipped with something like the Tin Audio T2 iem which is a dual dynamic driver, in a nice metal shell, detatchable cable and costs $43.  That sounds so good for the money and I would put it on par with a Rose earbud if I were comparing.


Which one masya or mojito?


----------



## RobinFood

silverfishla said:


> When I started out on this earbud trip a year and a half ago, I thought that compared to the iem game, earbuds were a great value for the sound.  Although I am happy that earbuds are getting a good second (maybe third) look as to their usefulness and enjoyment, I’m not so happy about the price increases that I’ve seen for so-called totl buds (most of which are not).  The $50 to $100 range seems to be so popular right now.  I think it’s way too much money for what you get.  The script is being flipped with something like the Tin Audio T2 iem which is a dual dynamic driver, in a nice metal shell, detatchable cable and costs $43.  That sounds so good for the money and I would put it on par with a Rose earbud if I were comparing.



It took a while of IEMs being out before the Tin Audio came out, though. 
Build quality wise, the TO200 is running for a similar price with a metal design, and it gets a lot of praise for having a similar sound-type.


----------



## activatorfly

Slater said:


> You can always try wearing them sideways (ie vertically). That's how I get extended sub bass. You just can't go skydiving or run a marathon with them in like that. But for sitting on the couch etc it works great.


I'll give them a try...I think the only buds I ever tried that adjustment with were the Moondrop VX Pro - it definitely made a difference - but as you say not very practical...haha!
(- they are currently in a queue of buds waiting for balanced plug re-cabling!)


----------



## silverfishla

seanc6441 said:


> Which one masya or mojito?


I’d actually say a full (or properly fit) Mojito.  If you can believe that.


----------



## seanc6441

silverfishla said:


> I’d actually say a full (or properly fit) Mojito.  If you can believe that.


Minus the soundstage?


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> Which one masya or mojito?


I'd guess referring to Masya? .....however, Tin Audio T2 reviews seem to concur that vocals have a cold signature? - compared to the warm presentation of Masya.


----------



## activatorfly

silverfishla said:


> I’d actually say a full (or properly fit) Mojito.  If you can believe that.


Yeah kinda surprised really - can't go back to using iems though lol!


----------



## silverfishla

activatorfly said:


> I'd guess referring to Masya? .....however, Tin Audio T2 reviews seem to concur that vocals have a cold signature? - compared to the warm presentation of Masya.


I don’t hear a cold vocal on the T2.  I hear a very competent and focused vocal, but not cold.  As far as soundstage, it’s one of those ones that the separation is so nice, that it’s encompassing.  Pretty wide, if I were to make an assessment.  One of those ones that you hear things in the recording that you’ve never heard before.  Like somebody whistling the melody on a vocal backup (some Duran Duran song).


----------



## silverfishla

activatorfly said:


> Yeah kinda surprised really - can't go back to using iems though lol!


Yeah, I know.  If that dual dynamic could be made into earbud form, it would kill.


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 4, 2018)

activatorfly said:


> Yeah kinda surprised really - can't go back to using iems though lol!


If the soundstage isnt there it's atleast something you can give to earbuds. More open sound but less sub bass and linearity.


silverfishla said:


> I don’t hear a cold vocal on the T2.  I hear a very competent and focused vocal, but not cold.  As far as soundstage, it’s one of those ones that the separation is so nice, that it’s encompassing.  Pretty wide, if I were to make an assessment.  One of those ones that you hear things in the recording that you’ve never heard before.  Like somebody whistling the melody on a vocal backup (some Duran Duran song).


So just to be sure is it wide like mojito or less? Trying to gauge how wide 'wide' is


----------



## silverfishla (Aug 4, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> If the soundstage isnt there it's atleast something you
> 
> So just to be sure is it wide like mojito or less? Trying to gauge how wide 'wide' is


It’s hard to say...Mojito is like a panoramic view and the T2 is like being in the center of a circle.  They are different that way.  I’m not saying they are like twins, soundwise.  I’m trying to say that as far as competency and quality of sound, I would rank them as close to equal.  Therefore, my concerns about earbud pricing.  I think there is room for more value than the trend to just price higher.
Edit: Maybe not center of a circle.  More like  a Cineramadome curving around you but not behind.


----------



## activatorfly

[





silverfishla said:


> Yeah, I know.  If that dual dynamic could be made into earbud form, it would kill.


Masya uses dual dynamic drivers....


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> If the soundstage isnt there it's atleast something you can give to earbuds. More open sound but less sub bass and linearity.


True....hence, imo it's advisable to seek out buds with a wide & deep soundstage - whilst not compromising on quantity of sub-bass


----------



## Slater

activatorfly said:


> I'll give them a try...I think the only buds I ever tried that adjustment with were the Moondrop VX Pro - it definitely made a difference - but as you say not very practical...haha!
> (- they are currently in a queue of buds waiting for balanced plug re-cabling!)



BTW, when I wear them sideways I use no covers at all. They seam to seal the best this way.

Just like the old vertical Walkman headphones of yesteryear (ie Sony MDR-W20G etc).


----------



## activatorfly

Slater said:


> BTW, when I wear them sideways I use no covers at all. They seam to seal the best this way.
> 
> Just like the old vertical Walkman headphones of yesteryear (ie Sony MDR-W20G etc).


Definitely worth experimenting with!


----------



## DBaldock9

Slater said:


> You can always try wearing them sideways (ie vertically). That's how I get extended sub bass. You just can't go skydiving or run a marathon with them in like that. But for sitting on the couch etc it works great.



I always wear my earbuds (and earphones) with the cable over-the-ear.
When you say _wear them sideways (ie vertically)_, is that the same thing?


----------



## waynes world

silverfishla said:


> When I started out on this earbud trip a year and a half ago, I thought that compared to the iem game, earbuds were a great value for the sound.  Although I am happy that earbuds are getting a good second (maybe third) look as to their usefulness and enjoyment, I’m not so happy about the price increases that I’ve seen for so-called totl buds (most of which are not).  The $50 to $100 range seems to be so popular right now.  I think it’s way too much money for what you get.  The script is being flipped with something like the Tin Audio T2 iem which is a dual dynamic driver, in a nice metal shell, detatchable cable and costs $43.  That sounds so good for the money and I would put it on par with a Rose earbud if I were comparing.



I definitely feel that the Svara L (32ohm) for $60 and Willsound MK2's for $50 are worth it. They have made me more satisfied than any similarly priced iems ever did. Granted, it was a few years ago that I was into iems and a lot has changed in the iem world since then. But I basically can't do iems anymore (cause various ear issues), so I'm stuck with being happy with my buds (and headphones of course).


----------



## Slater (Aug 4, 2018)

DBaldock9 said:


> I always wear my earbuds (and earphones) with the cable over-the-ear.
> When you say _wear them sideways (ie vertically)_, is that the same thing?



No, what I mean is stick them in your ear sideways (ie perpendicular to your ears, not parallel). And the earbud "grille" where the sound comes out faces forward (so the sound shoots into your eardrum).


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> No, what I mean is stick them in your ear sideways (ie perpendicular to your ears, not parallel).



Time to share a photo


----------



## silverfishla

waynes world said:


> I definitely feel that the Svara L (32ohm) for $60 and Willsound MK2's for $50 are worth it. They have made me more satisfied than any similarly priced iems ever did. Granted, it was a few years ago that I was into iems and a lot has changed in the iem world since then. But I basically can't do iems anymore (cause various ear issues), so I'm stuck with being happy with my buds (and headphones of course).


I’d love to give that Willsound a try, but I’ve been unlucky showing up on Rholput at the right time.  I’ve always just missed it by that much.


----------



## activatorfly

Slater said:


> No, what I mean is stick them in your ear sideways (ie perpendicular to your ears, not parallel). And the earbud "grille" where the sound comes out faces forward (so the sound shoots into your eardrum).


Strange as it sounds once your adept in positioning the housings vertically - it does actually work - took me sometime to describe it when I first started collecting - alas I've not tried it out since.


----------



## RobinFood

Slater said:


> OK, the below photo is how most people wear earbuds. See how it's facing flat and pointing towards the inside "meat" of the ear (ie the acoustic meatus)? The sound has to travel 90 degrees to get down the ear canal. Lots of energy is being lost this way, and the sound is crap due to not having any sort of seal. The volume has to be higher to compensate, often causing distortion as well as more noise leakage to those around you (due to the higher volume). Also the sub bass and bass suffers significantly with this configuration.
> 
> 
> 
> To wear them "sideways", I'm saying to rotate them 90 degrees, tucked into the intertragic notch, so the "screen" part of the earbud (where the sound comes out) is facing FORWARDS. You will get a much better seal this way, the sound will instantly become fuller, richer, have significantly more sub bass/bass, and they can be used more efficiently at lower volume (and have less distortion) because the sound is coming out of the driver and POINTING directly at your eardrum. Note that this guy below has the bottom/wire part of the earbud pointing at a ridiculous angle - you can easily wear earbuds with the wire part pointing down, so I'm not sure why he has his pointing straight out like that. It's the only photo I could find on Google, so excuse that part. What you're paying attention to is the main BODY of the earbud (the large round part where the driver is located). See how it's rotated 90 degrees from the 1st photo, and the "screen" part of the earbud (where the sound comes out) is facing FORWARDS?



From another thread, this is what I think is putting it in sideways...


----------



## chinmie

silverfishla said:


> I’d love to give that Willsound a try, but I’ve been unlucky showing up on Rholput at the right time.  I’ve always just missed it by that much.



try contacting willsound directly


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Which one masya or mojito?



Tinaudio T2 is closer to mojito and liebesleid; cold, balanced and really clean sounding with a bright-ish treble. it's a great iem, the only improvement it can have is the fitting and toning down or give a better resolution to the treble. to ms it's more natural sounding than the mojito


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 4, 2018)

chinmie said:


> Tinaudio T2 is closer to mojito and liebesleid; cold, balanced and really clean sounding with a bright-ish treble. it's a great iem, the only improvement it can have is the fitting and toning down or give a better resolution to the treble. to ms it's more natural sounding than the mojito


True but I like the Mojito for its digital tonality, it's unique. I was surprised when I heard some reviews say it was a neutral earbud... It is if you EQ it I guess^^

Seeing as the T2 is all the rage as the best (or one of) in it's price range for technicalities, I'm ok with it being better than the earbud alternative at the same price because earbuds behind on popularity and research last however many years but are now trying to catch up I guess, maybe soon they will


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> True but I like the Mojito for its digital tonality, it's unique. I was surprised when I heard some reviews say it was a neutral earbud... It is if you EQ it I guess^^
> 
> Seeing as the T2 is all the rage as the best (or one of) in it's price range for technicalities, I'm ok with it being better than the earbud alternative at the same price because earbuds behind on popularity and research last however many years but are now trying to catch up I guess, maybe soon they will



the tuning on it has no business being on the sub 100 dollars price category . it has that same digital tone vibe like the mojito (which is also my preferred sound signature). well, enough talking about iems, let's get back to earbuds


----------



## Slater

RobinFood said:


> From another thread, this is what I think is putting it in sideways...



Correct.

Cookie for you sir


----------



## Danneq (Aug 5, 2018)

silverfishla said:


> When I started out on this earbud trip a year and a half ago, I thought that compared to the iem game, earbuds were a great value for the sound.  Although I am happy that earbuds are getting a good second (maybe third) look as to their usefulness and enjoyment, I’m not so happy about the price increases that I’ve seen for so-called totl buds (most of which are not).  The $50 to $100 range seems to be so popular right now.  I think it’s way too much money for what you get.  The script is being flipped with something like the Tin Audio T2 iem which is a dual dynamic driver, in a nice metal shell, detatchable cable and costs $43.  That sounds so good for the money and I would put it on par with a Rose earbud if I were comparing.



On the other hand earbuds range from $3 to $300+ (with the rare exception becoming more expensive) while iems can go up to $1500/2000 for multi BA driver universal iems. Then it just keps going up when you get into custom iems.

So the Tin Audio T2 should be a challenger to and be compared to more expensive iems rather than earbuds. (this from someone who cannot stand iem and therefor only uses earbuds)

When I got into earbuds around 2008/2009 there was pretty much only Yuin around. AKG and Sennheiser had some okay stuff but nothing TOTL (AKG might have had K319, or if it was released a bit later).
Yuin PK3 was around $35-40 and PK2 around $55-60 and nowadays you can find much better sounding earbuds in those price categories. And cheaper ones that are on the same level.


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 5, 2018)

chinmie said:


> the tuning on it has no business being on the sub 100 dollars price category . it has that same digital tone vibe like the mojito (which is also my preferred sound signature). well, enough talking about iems, let's get back to earbuds


It's crazy when I started this hobby I had in my mind an ideal signature of neutral-warm and analog tonality.

Right now I'm preffering more neutral extended bass (not like planar neutral but like dynamic neutral so still slightly arcing to mid bass into low mids). But that's the ONLY 'warm' part I'm interested in anymore. Mids and high's I like neutral-brighter.

Although mojito with it's stock cable was just was no from me. The FR was causing every bit of sibilance and imperfection on each track to become twice as annoying. I like detail but a  smooth FR is key.

Once I swapped the mojito and masya's cables with each other. Much better. I'm guessing the masya's cable shifted the FR slightly because it became much more tolerable, detailed but smoother and with more vocals emphasis slightly.

In turn the Masya became more mature sounding, less mid bass, more low mids slightly and a little more even treble which revealed some extra fine detail.

So now I love both my Rose buds, but they are an acquired tastes especially the mojito!

I prefer the overall signature of my K's ling though, except at 1-1.5 khz it needs to dip or stay flat but instead it raises... Which makes for an 'interesting' tonality. So I have to EQ that to keep my sanity 

I'm considering selling my Shozy BK as the once loved darker neutral analytical signature isn't really my favorite anymore. If I had to listen to a darker tonality I think I'd prefer it to be more musical than the dry-er tonality of the BK (and Mojito) which I prefer now only if the earbud is neutral or brighter.

Bk sounds amazing with double thin foams though, truly neutral but you lose some of that depth and bass of the thicker donuts.


----------



## rkw

Narayan23 said:


> What about yourself rkw? What buds and music make your heart beat faster?


To set the context, I listen primarily to classical music, and it is important to me that instruments sound like they do in real life. That means a neutral, flat response. If the sound is colored, it is harder to listen with "suspension of disbelief" to imagine real acoustic instruments playing. My reference at home is full-size HD-650 driven by Jotunheim amp with balanced cables, and equalized with Sonarworks True-Fi software for flat response. This setup sounds great to me, a good reproduction of what I hear at live classical concerts.

None of my earbuds can match the sound quality of my HD-650 setup. Yet 80% of my listening is on earbuds because I enjoy the comfort, convenience and open sound. At the high end, I've had a Rose Mojito for a couple of weeks and it is very promising. The Mojito's size and shape are not ergonomic for good fit and seal, and I've been experimenting with foams to match my ears. Without a good seal the Mojito's sound is overly bright, but with multiple foams I can actually get _too_ good of a seal and the sound becomes too warm! I feel that I will be able to find a happy medium. Among lower earbuds, the PMV Aeode doesn't have the high and low extension of the Mojito, but it has a natural, uncolored sound that is good for classical. The PMV is my earbud at work, run directly off my MacBook Pro. I have some other earbuds*, but these are the two that stand out for me among the earbuds I currently own.

* Yinman 600, Toneking TO400, 1More EO1008, Yuin PK2, **** PT15


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 5, 2018)

rkw said:


> To set the context, I listen primarily to classical music, and it is important to me that instruments sound like they do in real life. That means a neutral, flat response. If the sound is colored, it is harder to listen with "suspension of disbelief" to imagine real acoustic instruments playing. My reference at home is full-size HD-650 driven by Jotunheim amp with balanced cables, and equalized with Sonarworks True-Fi software for flat response. This setup sounds great to me, a good reproduction of what I hear at live classical concerts.
> 
> None of my earbuds can match the sound quality of my HD-650 setup. Yet 80% of my listening is on earbuds because I enjoy the comfort, convenience and open sound. At the high end, I've had a Rose Mojito for a couple of weeks and it is very promising. The Mojito's size and shape are not ergonomic for good fit and seal, and I've been experimenting with foams to match my ears. Without a good seal the Mojito's sound is overly bright, but with multiple foams I can actually get _too_ good of a seal and the sound becomes too warm! I feel that I will be able to find a happy medium. Among lower earbuds, the PMV Aeode doesn't have the high and low extension of the Mojito, but it has a natural, uncolored sound that is good for classical. The PMV is my earbud at work, run directly off my MacBook Pro. I have some other earbuds*, but these are the two that stand out for me among the earbuds I currently own.
> 
> * Yinman 600, Toneking TO400, 1More EO1008, Yuin PK2, **** PT15



The mojito's have an overly warm/emphasised mid bass, but do need a good seal to sound their best I agree. If you tone down the mid bass and raise the lower vocal range the mojito becomes super dynamic/full sounding with a good seal, without being overpowering or overly contrasting of warm/bright. Atleast in my experience.


----------



## rkw

seanc6441 said:


> The mojito's have an overly warm/emphasised mid bass, but do need a good seal to sound their best I agree. If you tone down the mid bass and raise the lower vocal range the mojito becomes super dynamic/full sounding with a good seal, without being overpowering or overly contrasting of warm/bright. Atleast in my experience.


So if I understand correctly, I have achieved a proper seal and the overly warm balance I hear is expected from a Mojito. When you say tone down the mid bass and raise the local vocal range, do you mean with an equalizer? What settings are you using?


----------



## subwoof3r

seanc6441 said:


> Bk sounds amazing with *double thin foams*.


Do you have any good hint on how to put double foams ? I tried several times on my EBX (by waiting my fixed pair) but broke many foams trying to put the second over the first one, unfortunately.
I tried also to place the second directly inside the first, but to put them after that is really tricky and not succeed.
I tried to put a donut over a full foam with tools but it's very tricky too and I needed around 15 minutes (approx) for each sides, for an approximated result.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> It's crazy when I started this hobby I had in my mind an ideal signature of neutral-warm and analog tonality.
> 
> Right now I'm preffering more neutral extended bass (not like planar neutral but like dynamic neutral so still slightly arcing to mid bass into low mids). But that's the ONLY 'warm' part I'm interested in anymore. Mids and high's I like neutral-brighter.
> 
> ...



keep the BK if you could, as you'll never know when that musical signature swing might occur. there are times when i don't like warm and bassy tones, but at some other times, i might got tired of bright tones and crave big slushy midbass


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 5, 2018)

chinmie said:


> keep the BK if you could, as you'll never know when that musical signature swing might occur. there are times when i don't like warm and bassy tones, but at some other times, i might got tired of bright tones and crave big slushy midbass


That's what I'm using my EQ'd Ourart TI7 for. It reminds me of my HD540ii tuning without the treble spike, it's actually got an obvious vintage headphone tonality and presentation which I haven't gotten in any of my other buds. I have it tuned as neutral as I can but it's smooth and warm too somehow. Like a more musical Shozy BK without the overaly thick mids but lacking the last 10% of it's bass and texture, but actually a more balanced sound.

Such a lovely earbud if you EQ it to squeeze the most bass and treble out of it. Getting so much use time because of how natural it sounds and how well it images.

But as I said if I wanted a break from brighter signatur


----------



## groucho69

Slater said:


> No, what I mean is stick them in your ear sideways (ie perpendicular to your ears, not parallel). And the earbud "grille" where the sound comes out faces forward (so the sound shoots into your eardrum).



@Slater has suggested this before. Once I tried it I can't go back. I works so much better for me. Thanks again!


----------



## seanc6441

The trick for me (although equally as tricky as what you suggest above) is to cut one full foam into a disk (basically cut the front side and remove the back) and place this disk inside another full foam (I like to use perforated/multi hole for this). This way you can have the density/seal of a double foam without the foams becoming crazy thick which never work for my ear shape/size.

Getting the disk into the full foam is tricky and requires tweezers to sit it in correctly after stretching the full foam to make it fit easier. Then getting the full foam on the earbud is tricky because the inner foam disk tends to shift around and not stay aligned without careful placement.

So yeah I know 'a method' but it's damn awkward...

If only they sold a better variety of foam types so we didn't need to do this lol


----------



## ClieOS

Just finish burning in TM9 and give it another listen - the legendary life-like three dimensional soundstage from TM7 is not only not lost on the TM9, but becomes grander than ever. My head knows that I am listening to earbud but my mind is confused. This earbud is really something else.


----------



## mochill

ClieOS said:


> Just finish burning in TM9 and give it another listen - the legendary life-like three dimensional soundstage from TM7 is not only not lost on the TM9, but becomes grander than ever. My head knows that I am listening to earbud but my mind is confused. This earbud is really something else.


More information, like bass , mids , and treble


----------



## subwoof3r

seanc6441 said:


> The trick for me (although equally as tricky as what you suggest above) is to cut one full foam into a disk (basically cut the front side and remove the back) and place this disk inside another full foam (I like to use perforated/multi hole for this). This way you can have the density/seal of a double foam without the foams becoming crazy thick which never work for my ear shape/size.
> 
> Getting the disk into the full foam is tricky and requires tweezers to sit it in correctly after stretching the full foam to make it fit easier. Then getting the full foam on the earbud is tricky because the inner foam disk tends to shift around and not stay aligned without careful placement.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I will take a look 
Yeah definitely agree, I'm surprised that no one made these kind of foams directly. Maybe in the next months?


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 5, 2018)

chinmie said:


> keep the BK if you could, as you'll never know when that musical signature swing might occur. there are times when i don't like warm and bassy tones, but at some other times, i might got tired of bright tones and crave big slushy midbass


Yes I'll probably keep it as it is technically slightly better than the TI7 and with the right foams it does everything slightly better (but TI7 rocks for $60!). I just think of the $$$ I could recover from a balanced BK (I'm not even using it balanced lol). I'll think over it some more, it is nice to have in my collection though for the acoustic vocal stuff.



mochill said:


> More information, like bass , mids , and treble


Yes please mr Clioes we need MOAARRRR 

Sound sig?


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 5, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> Thanks, I will take a look
> Yeah definitely agree, I'm surprised that no one made these kind of foams directly. Maybe in the next months?


They need to start making foams thicker in the front than hiegi fulls but pourus, then make it concave like a grado s cush for example. That would be the ultimate foam and just have them in 3 different densities.

I swear if you start stacking foams on many earbuds the sounstage and separation takes on a headphone approach... Donuts alone are ok but what if you want to disperse the sound a little fuller to give a grander sense of presentation. That's where thick bowl like foams would come in handy.

The issue with current foam stacking is it dull the treble too much or effects imaging and air. But with a single thick bowl foam you get a consistent sound, great seal, good space and a full tonality... Yes they would cost way more to produce because the foam would have to be slightly more rigid and higher quality. But I'd pay for them if they sounded better, thick most of us would.

 
Basically this but in miniture form


----------



## chinmie

ClieOS said:


> Just finish burning in TM9 and give it another listen - the legendary life-like three dimensional soundstage from TM7 is not only not lost on the TM9, but becomes grander than ever. My head knows that I am listening to earbud but my mind is confused. This earbud is really something else.





mochill said:


> More information, like bass , mids , and treble



also pricing and comparison to the Dragon 2+ please



seanc6441 said:


> Yes I'll probably keep it as it is technically slightly better than the TI7 and with the right foams it does everything slightly better (but TI7 rocks for $60!). I just think of the $$$ I could recover from a balanced BK (I'm not even using it balanced lol). I'll think over it some more, it is nice to have in my collection though for the acoustic vocal stuff.
> Sound sig?



i also trying to get rid of the gears i rarely use anymore, so i can buy other gears . it's hard though, when i screen them to see which ones i could toss out, i often say "maybe later" in the end


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> also pricing and comparison to the Dragon 2+ please
> 
> 
> 
> i also trying to get rid of the gears i rarely use anymore, so i can buy other gears . it's hard though, when i screen them to see which ones i could toss out, i often say "maybe later" in the end


Exactly, i have no issue selling stuff I wont use but with earbuds you can change your preference simply by mood, trying different foams, new sources etc.

But nonetheless I'll take trying new buds over hoarding ones I use barely. That's why I sold my TO400s recently and will list more soon... But maybe not the BK


----------



## Zerohour88

loomisjohnson said:


> having only recently gotten into buds, i'm looking for more recs in the higher-impedance 50-150 ohm realm. i'm currently enjoying the faaeal snow lotus and he 150pro--any thoughts on the  toneking 65/150? anything comparable at <$50?
> many thank in advance



I have the TO180 (150ohm), but they're really sensitive (even more than my old graphenes), so if you want something to amp up, maybe the TO200 would be better.

https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/01/28/toneking-to200/


----------



## wskl

subwoof3r said:


> Do you have any good hint on how to put double foams ? I tried several times on my EBX (by waiting my fixed pair) but broke many foams trying to put the second over the first one, unfortunately.
> I tried also to place the second directly inside the first, but to put them after that is really tricky and not succeed.
> I tried to put a donut over a full foam with tools but it's very tricky too and I needed around 15 minutes (approx) for each sides, for an approximated result.



You can try using a new foam (left) first, then use a worn in foam (right) which tends to more stretched out for the second layer.


----------



## redkingjoe

ClieOS said:


> Just finish burning in TM9 and give it another listen - the legendary life-like three dimensional soundstage from TM7 is not only not lost on the TM9, but becomes grander than ever. My head knows that I am listening to earbud but my mind is confused. This earbud is really something else.



The place to buy and price, please.

If we quote you, will we get a discount!


----------



## ClieOS (Aug 5, 2018)

mochill said:


> More information, like bass , mids , and treble



Very smooth and well balanced - not the kind that is so smooth that will put you to sleep, but the kind of smooth because everything seems to fit in the right place and nothing is out of alignment. The kind of smooth that only exists with a high degree of perfection / completion. It feels very much like I am listening to a full sized open can rather than an earbud - kinda reminds me of a well driven Sennheiser, but in more of a miniature form.



chinmie said:


> also pricing and comparison to the Dragon 2+ please



SWD2+ has a brighter upper mid that gives its vocal a bit more shine and detail (though not harsh by any mean), where TM9 is just smooth all around. Both has superb soundstage but TM9 has an even higher level of openness. As far as overall SQ goes, I think there are more or less the same ToTL level and judging which is better will ultimately depends on how those very small difference in presentation fit into different person's taste rather than actual technical difference.



redkingjoe said:


> The place to buy and price, please.
> 
> If we quote you, will we get a discount!



Again, I have no info on the exact release date or price of TM9. You can quote me all you want but that probably won't make any difference


----------



## mochill

seanc6441 said:


> Yes I'll probably keep it as it is technically slightly better than the TI7 and with the right foams it does everything slightly better (but TI7 rocks for $60!). I just think of the $$$ I could recover from a balanced BK (I'm not even using it balanced lol). I'll think over it some more, it is nice to have in my collection though for the acoustic vocal stuff.
> 
> 
> Yes please mr Clioes we need MOAARRRR
> ...





ClieOS said:


> Very smooth and well balanced - not the kind that is so smooth that will put you to sleep, but the kind of smooth because everything seems to fit in the right place and nothing is out of alignment. The kind of smooth that only exists with a high degree of perfection / completion. It feels very much like I am listening to a full sized open can rather than an earbud - kinda reminds me of a well driven Sennheiser, but in more of a miniature form.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How is the bass compared to the tm5


----------



## BloodyPenguin




----------



## ClieOS

mochill said:


> How is the bass compared to the tm5



Dunno, don't have a TM5 to compare. But it isn't really a bass heavy earphone for sure. I'll describe it as simply adequate.


----------



## dheepak10

capnjack said:


> But o.o.t.b impression is that they’re a keeper!  Seem to have bass that goes down quite deep, mids are pleasant with a good amount of crunch and detail, treble seems articulate and detailed with no hint of sibilance or harshness. Vocals, both male and female are up front and central. Have to say that the shell is quite small! It’s custom made by Ryo.
> Listening to The Collection - The Shamen



Ryo is a nice artist and his buds are always a looker! Do they cost TOTL levels or affordable levels?


----------



## DAndrew

dheepak10 said:


> Ryo is a nice artist and his buds are always a looker! Do they cost TOTL levels or affordable levels?



Its very affordable, starts at 50$ but for custom made earbuds with w/e artwork you want on them thats pretty good


----------



## capnjack

dheepak10 said:


> Ryo is a nice artist and his buds are always a looker! Do they cost TOTL levels or affordable levels?


You must add on shipping and if you use PayPal 5% charge too. But it really depends on your definition of totl price ?


----------



## DAndrew

capnjack said:


> You must add on shipping and if you use PayPal 5% charge too. But it really depends on your definition of totl price ?



Shipping is 10~12 with tracking but long waiting time. I think its pretty reasonable.

TOTL is rather tricky but i guess anything over 150$ should be considered that for earbuds


----------



## loomisjohnson

Zerohour88 said:


> I have the TO180 (150ohm), but they're really sensitive (even more than my old graphenes), so if you want something to amp up, maybe the TO200 would be better.
> 
> https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/01/28/toneking-to200/


thanks zero. from your review it looks like the to180 would appeal--i'm using a lg v30 as a source.


----------



## seanc6441

loomisjohnson said:


> thanks zero. from your review it looks like the to180 would appeal--i'm using a lg v30 as a source.


The V30 has a decent amp. I think the the TO200 would be fine, my TO400s was powered from my V20.


----------



## jant71

Okay, Shozy XB and TM9 impression updates please


----------



## seanc6441

jant71 said:


> Okay, Shozy XB and TM9 impression updates please


Look up he just posted about the TM9 

I too wanna here about the XB from someone


----------



## jant71 (Aug 6, 2018)

Ooops, missed the TM9 somehow. Thanks! Seems like the TM9 may just not be bassy enough to be a portable for my needs.


----------



## dheepak10

Those who love analogue signature and long listening sessions, should take a look at OurArt TI7.

Here's my take on them:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ourart-ti7.22520/reviews#review-20681


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 6, 2018)

dheepak10 said:


> Those who love analogue signature and long listening sessions, should take a look at OurArt TI7.
> 
> Here's my take on them:
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ourart-ti7.22520/reviews#review-20681


Very nice! Precisely the reason I add a V shape EQ to them, becomes a wonderfully balanced-neutral signature whilst maintaining a hint of analog goodness in the mids.

The dip at 1khz makes them very smooth on vocals, absolutely no shout but the presence at 2khz keeps them detailed and vocals present.

I actually find the soundstsge depth good with ve thick foams, i think the lack of sub bass in stock tuning hampers the impression of depth. Once you add bass it's there, with impressive imaging that's oh so natural compared to many other earbuds under $100.

In short these are the most pleasant surprise in an earbud I've had recently. If they brought out a V2 with more bass extension-emphasis and treble emphasis it'd be a truly special earbud. Nonetheless with EQ it's pretty awesome and definitely staying in my collection for a long time.


----------



## ClieOS (Aug 6, 2018)

jant71 said:


> Okay, Shozy XB and TM9 impression updates please



Shozy has an lesser known low end model earbud that is simply known as 'DIY' or 'little white' (as opposed to 'big white', which is what Cygnus is called in Chinese) and the XB is just Shozy DIY with a better cable. They are not exactly new either, as Shozy DIY is actually older than Cygnus while XB too has been in the market for months now, I just didn't bother to pick up either. The price of XB on Penon (and elsewhere) is however rather high as I can get XB on Taobao for almost half as much.


----------



## activatorfly

dheepak10 said:


> Those who love analogue signature and long listening sessions, should take a look at OurArt TI7.
> 
> Here's my take on them:
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ourart-ti7.22520/reviews#review-20681


The next bud on my list.....


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 6, 2018)

@rkw

It's bump in the mid bass so it's a bloated bass response, but it dips very low in the low mids so vocals are thinner and colder sounding in stock tuning. That's why I reduce mid bass and increase low mids so lets say you take a wide quality and drop 45-130hz by -1db, and increase 650-1000hz by 1db. That's a relatively conservative EQing but it makes a big difference in balancing out the Mojito and making in sound smoother. To take it a step further. I bump the sub bass at 16hz by 0.5-1db (very optional) and drop a very wide quality at 4khz(so like 2.5-6khz wide) by -0.5-1db to take the edge off the upper mids-lower treble, but retain that lovely neutral extended treble.

I'm using heigi donuts+a thin foam layer under it that i cut from a donut foam to really improve the seal and keep nice imaging layering depth in the soundstage.


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 6, 2018)

Using the mojito with thin foams also removes the bloat, but the mojito doesn't sound particularly great with thin foams IMO. It loses its focus and dynamics.

It sounds more like a full size headphone with the thick donuts, the inner foam piece serves the purpose of dispersing the sound better as the heigi donuts alone have a tendency to create a closed back sound without enough air-space around the notes.


----------



## silverfishla

seanc6441 said:


> Using the mojito with thin foams also removes the bloat, but the mojito doesn't sound particularly great with thin foams IMO. It loses its focus and dynamics.
> 
> It sounds more like a full size headphone with the thick donuts, the inner foam piece serves the purpose of dispersing the sound better as the heigi donuts alone have a tendency to create a closed back sound without enough air-space around the notes.


I do something similar with my Mojitos too.  I build up the outer edge and width so they will sit in the right place in my ears.  The Mojito’s cable arm is too close to my ear, so if I try to insert them further in (like some buds) the arm will hit my ear and create a tilt or just be enough to dislodge it from a proper fit.


----------



## seanc6441

silverfishla said:


> I do something similar with my Mojitos too.  I build up the outer edge and width so they will sit in the right place in my ears.  The Mojito’s cable arm is too close to my ear, so if I try to insert them further in (like some buds) the arm will hit my ear and create a tilt or just be enough to dislodge it from a proper fit.


They sound somewhat better if you can get them slightly further (but not too distant) because it really opens up the already impressive separation it sounds more cohesive overall.

Plus the fit is so much better, agreed on that.


----------



## antdroid (Aug 7, 2018)

Ok this is a multi-part post so bare with me and it'll be about a mod to the **** PT15 and secondly measurements.

So, I have had the **** PT15 for a little while but I always found the bass to be anemic however the upper end was a bit peaky but full of detail. I decided to enlarge the rear vent tonight. I originally tried to dremel it but quickly changed it after not liking how the results were looking on the right side. I changed to drilling a 1/16th inch pilot hole into each vent, and followed with a 1/8th inch hole afterward. So far I am liking the results. It does increase the low end a bit without being muddy and bloated.



Now, after doing this, I took measurements. I wished I took them prior to modding but I forgot. 

I have a MiniDSP EARS rig and I've been playing around with it on my IEMs and Headphones lately. The ears on the EARS unit are very small. They must have modeled a young child's ear. Putting ear buds in them is challenging because they are a bit large for the ear. I had to stretch the ear and let it collapse on the ear buds. I also had the ear buds worn over-ear like IEMs are worn, so that I got better fit and making the cord wrap around the ear twice to prevent movement.

Anyway, I measured several ear buds I had on hand:






Red: Yincrow X6 with foam - a fun ear bud. Great linear response in the mid-low mids with a slight upper bass hump -- measurements seem pretty accurate there. The upper end is a bit peaky than it should which could be a limitation of the earbud and the unit combo, but the curve looks good.

Yellow: **** PT15 with the described mod - It somehow became v-shaped. lol! I dont know if this is representative or not because I had a heck of a time trying to get these to fit and stay still. The mids get more recessed before peaking up in the treble region to the highest of all the ear buds tested -- the treble peak is probably representative.

Blue: BlueEverBlue 328R - I really like this and I found the signature to be pretty neutral. The curve looks representative of that with the bass roll-off starting way early. That was a surprise to me actually. There's also a big dip in the mid-mids.

Green: Venture Electronics Monk Lite 120 Ohm -- These seem to follow the **** mod and the BEB through the mids but is then has the most treble and possible air according to this FR graph. I don't know if I totally agree with it. The VE Monks Lite, while more spacious and neutral compared to the VE Monk Plus is still more mid-focused than the others in actual listening to me.

Anyway, take these graphs with a total grain of salt because of the measurement technique and inability to get great fit with the device. The MiniDSP EARS also has its limitations in general and isnt industry standard (GRAS is that).






Total Harmonic Distortion

Essentially the mod to the PT15 really messed with the THD in the bass, as expected. It was brute force mod, so yeah... 








This last graph is just a comparison to a popular IEM, the Tin Audio T2. Like many people, I find it extremely balanced and neutral sounding, and this FR graph shows that. This just gives some idea of what many people find neutral versus these popular budget ear buds. The excessive treble vs the "neutral" T2 is likely due to the earbuds not getting good seal vs an IEM would. The rolled off bass is another aspect of using ear buds vs sealed IEMs.

I still love ear buds and I am growing to love IEMs too. 

Anyway, hope you enjoy my random DIY'ness.


----------



## Yobster69

Just adding to the foam discussion.....
With the Masya, I find that a silicone ring first, then two donut foams (the first one is a generic coloured version, the second is a Heigi) over the top not only improve fit (though I do have a large outer ear section) but improves bass, imaging and most importantly stage. 
You can see from the pic there is space between the first (red) donut and the grille, caused by the silicone. It’s only small but enough to make quite a difference. It adds that depth and space needed for everything to come together before it enters the ear. 
I tried a silicone ring I bought separately first, but it wasn’t thick enough. So I then cut the wings off a set of ear hooks that come with a set of TY buds as these are much thicker silicone and it worked a treat. 
Just another option for others to try if you fancy fiddling around for that ‘different’ sound option. 
And don’t we all love trying out new tricks


----------



## RobinFood

Yobster69 said:


> Just adding to the foam discussion.....
> With the Masya, I find that a silicone ring first, then two donut foams (the first one is a generic coloured version, the second is a Heigi) over the top not only improve fit (though I do have a large outer ear section) but improves bass, imaging and most importantly stage.
> You can see from the pic there is space between the first (red) donut and the grille, caused by the silicone. It’s only small but enough to make quite a difference. It adds that depth and space needed for everything to come together before it enters the ear.
> I tried a silicone ring I bought separately first, but it wasn’t thick enough. So I then cut the wings off a set of ear hooks that come with a set of TY buds as these are much thicker silicone and it worked a treat.
> ...



Whoa, that looks really cool. How is the seal with all that foam? Does it block off a lot of the outside world?

It almost looks like it could go in as much as some IEMs!


----------



## Yobster69

RobinFood said:


> Whoa, that looks really cool. How is the seal with all that foam? Does it block off a lot of the outside world?
> 
> It almost looks like it could go in as much as some IEMs!


I guess it could block a little more outside sound, it’s hard to tell, though being open/vented like most buds it will never solve that problem. What I have found though is that the seal is now MUCH better. Before I found that to get the best seal, and the best sound from the seal I had, I was having to angle the cable connector so that it pointed more forward (Which in turn added an angle at which the cable would hang, meaning I had to adjust it from time to time), and to wiggle the bud whilst pushing it in. Now it completely fills my outer ear and the connector can hang at any angle, most likely straight down, as the seal is perfect immediately after putting them in. 
It was a win win. Better seal, more comfortable, less adjusting and (to me anyway) a better sound.


----------



## jogawag (Aug 8, 2018)

Please listen to this with PK Type Earbuds (SWD2+, Shozy Cygnus, Docomo Earbuds, WillSound PK32, etc) which treble glitters.
I think that you can soak in the romantic atmosphere.


----------



## Carrow

Any recommendations for silicone rings to fit K's Samsara 300? Looking to experiment a bit


----------



## jogawag

Carrow said:


> Any recommendations for silicone rings to fit K's Samsara 300? Looking to experiment a bit


Please search shop in your country with keyword "SENNHEISER 538215".


----------



## hung031086

Im looking for a good balanced cable for my mojito, any recommendations?


----------



## 40760

What's the best earbuds to be had now for $150? Is it still the Shozy BK Stardust?

Penon is currently assessing my returned Classic Collection before issuing a replacement. I'm waiting in suspense now...


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> What's the best earbuds to be had now for $150? Is it still the Shozy BK Stardust?
> 
> Penon is currently assessing my returned Classic Collection before issuing a replacement. I'm waiting in suspense now...



I tried just now to look at your profile to see what you already have but it says ERROR This member limits who may view their full profile.

Have you limited it on purpose or did you not tick or untick a box after the server changes?


----------



## DAndrew

palestofwhite said:


> What's the best earbuds to be had now for $150? Is it still the Shozy BK Stardust?
> 
> Penon is currently assessing my returned Classic Collection before issuing a replacement. I'm waiting in suspense now...



Depends on your preferred sound signature, I would recommend a Blur in that price range, and if you like bass obviously the Samsara


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> I tried just now to look at your profile to see what you already have but it says ERROR This member limits who may view their full profile.
> 
> Have you limited it on purpose or did you not tick or untick a box after the server changes?



I suspect it might be a server thing, and I'm not actually very familiar with the newer settings and options as well...

I'll have to go and check it out over the weekend!


----------



## 40760

DAndrew said:


> Depends on your preferred sound signature, I would recommend a Blur in that price range, and if you like bass obviously the Samsara



You must be talking about the Samsara 300?


----------



## DAndrew

palestofwhite said:


> You must be talking about the Samsara 300?



Yes, K's earphone K300 Samsara. Besides the great sound quality and the best bass I have heard until now, it also has the best cable hands down


----------



## 40760

DAndrew said:


> Yes, K's earphone K300 Samsara. Besides the great sound quality and the best bass I have heard until now, it also has the best cable hands down


Thank you! I'll go look into that!


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> I suspect it might be a server thing, and I'm not actually very familiar with the newer settings and options as well...
> 
> I'll have to go and check it out over the weekend!



It is in the Privacy setting in the drop down mention under your name. You tick the box and choose who can view your profile page... all visitors, members only, or only those that you follow.  If you have taken the time to fill out the profile you kinda want people to see it...


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> It is in the Privacy setting in the drop down mention under your name. You tick the box and choose who can view your profile page... all visitors, members only, or only those that you follow.  If you have taken the time to fill out the profile you kinda want people to see it...



I think I've not filled up any info yet, besides messing with signature a bit. I'll have to look into it when I have more time...


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 8, 2018)

Carrow said:


> Any recommendations for silicone rings to fit K's Samsara 300? Looking to experiment a bit


http://s.aliexpress.com/6jAnaQZf

that store has all sorts of accessories and mod parts. Saw a few different silicone covers/rings for earbuds on it.


----------



## RobinFood

Carrow said:


> Any recommendations for silicone rings to fit K's Samsara 300? Looking to experiment a bit



or something like this....

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Rub...8.0&pvid=c4ec722a-4467-4775-8220-b12e83db9bb5

I haven't tried them but was very curious to at some point. I just felt like the price was a little high for what you got...


----------



## 40760

RobinFood said:


> or something like this....
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Rub...8.0&pvid=c4ec722a-4467-4775-8220-b12e83db9bb5
> 
> I haven't tried them but was very curious to at some point. I just felt like the price was a little high for what you got...



I was looking at these too, but I though they're too expensive to try...


----------



## Narayan23

mbwilson111 said:


> It is in the Privacy setting in the drop down mention under your name. You tick the box and choose who can view your profile page... all visitors, members only, or only those that you follow.  If you have taken the time to fill out the profile you kinda want people to see it...



I never actually bothered filling my profile since I thought people wouldn´t be interested in having a look, I might have to get around to doing so, it will be shorter than a telegram so no excuse really.


----------



## 40760

Narayan23 said:


> I never actually bothered filling my profile since I thought people wouldn´t be interested in having a look, I might have to get around to doing so, it will be shorter than a telegram so no excuse really.



My exact sentiments! May it's just me not having the habit to click on people's profile... But maybe like you I should try and update with something over the weekend or so...


----------



## Narayan23

palestofwhite said:


> My exact sentiments! May it's just me not having the habit to click on people's profile... But maybe like you I should try and update with something over the weekend or so...



I´ll do it if you do


----------



## 40760

Narayan23 said:


> I´ll do it if you do



I think it won't take long for me since I don't have much gear to begin with...


----------



## mbwilson111 (Aug 8, 2018)

Narayan23 said:


> I never actually bothered filling my profile since I thought people wouldn´t be interested in having a look, I might have to get around to doing so, it will be shorter than a telegram so no excuse really.



You would be surprised.  If someone asks a question, I look.  If someone replies to me or likes my post, I look... Somewhere in all the site terms, they suggest always filling it out.. .especially before asking advice as it always helps other to know what you already have and like (or don't like)... what power you have available etc.  I hate going to a page and seeing nothing....unless of course the person literally has nothing...

I am always surprised when people ask me if I have this or that... when the answer is in my  list... which I have spent time keeping up to date and often have little comments about some products.


----------



## Narayan23

mbwilson111 said:


> You would be surprised.  If someone asks a question, I look.  If someone replies to me or likes my post, I look... Somewhere in all the site terms, they suggest always filling it out.. .especially before asking advice as it always helps other to know what you already have and like (or don't like)... what power you have available etc.  I hate going to a page and seeing nothing....unless of course the person literally has nothing...
> 
> I am always surprised when people ask me if I have this or that... when the answer is in the my  list... which I have spent time keeping up to date and often have little comments about some products.



You make very valid points so I´ll get fingers to keyboard and have mine filled out by today / tomorrow.


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> You would be surprised.  If someone asks a question, I look.  If someone replies to me or likes my post, I look... Somewhere in all the site terms, they suggest always filling it out.. .especially before asking advice as it always helps other to know what you already have and like (or don't like)... what power you have available etc.  I hate going to a page and seeing nothing....unless of course the person literally has nothing...
> 
> I am always surprised when people ask me if I have this or that... when the answer is in the my  list... which I have spent time keeping up to date and often have little comments about some products.



No wonder you asked! You were trying to help answer my question!


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> No wonder you asked! You were trying to help answer my question!



exactly!  although I do not own anything at the price point that you mentioned.  My Black Panther would be my most expensive bud.  Price does not always predict quality  I am VERY happy with most (maybe all) of my buds.  I say this as the owner of a few expensive headphones (which you know if you have seen my list).


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> exactly!  although I do not own anything at the price point that you mentioned.  My Black Panther would be my most expensive bud.  Price does not always predict quality  I am VERY happy with most (maybe all) of my buds.  I say this as the owner of a few expensive headphones (which you know if you have seen my list).



My most expensive earbuds are back with the seller, pending RMA... Most of my earbuds are below $50...

I've also recently given away most of my collection to a close friend of mine...


----------



## Narayan23

palestofwhite said:


> My most expensive earbuds are back with the seller, pending RMA... Most of my earbuds are below $50...
> 
> I've also recently given away most of my collection to a close friend of mine...



The (profile) deed is done, I see yours is too, it seems everyone has Willsounds except me.


----------



## 40760

Narayan23 said:


> The (profile) deed is done, I see yours is too, it seems everyone has Willsounds except me.



I like the Willsound MK3... but mine was destroyed in a mishap...

My next favourite is the PK32 followed by the MK2...


----------



## Carrow

seanc6441 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/6jAnaQZf
> 
> that store has all sorts of accessories and mod parts. Saw a few different silicone covers/rings for earbuds on it.



Like this you mean?


----------



## seanc6441

Carrow said:


> Like this you mean?


That's one of a few variants, idk which ones are the best but he has a few to choose from.


----------



## RuFrost (Aug 8, 2018)

Has anybody heard this earbuds? Fengru LCK1261. It seems like they can easily compete with BS1 Official at 50% of the price.
https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-...000&pvid=3816984b-6c16-4e53-b0a4-5895ca8c7f91


----------



## seanc6441

RuFrost said:


> Have anybody heard this earbuds? Fengru LCK1261. It seems like they can easily compete with BS1 Official at 50% of the price.
> https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-...000&pvid=3816984b-6c16-4e53-b0a4-5895ca8c7f91


There's a few fengru earbuds that look promising but very little reviews on them like this one too

Newest FENGRU HYCK100 1.2M Flat head Metal earphone DIY Double Dynamic Drive Unit earphone HiFi earpiece with MMCX Interface
http://s.aliexpress.com/EziQBZBJ?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard

And

New arrive FENGRU HYCK100 1.2M Flat head Metal earphone DIY Double Dynamic Drive Unit earphone HiFi earpiece with MMCX Interface
http://s.aliexpress.com/fYFfyI3A?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard


Particularly the first dual driver one. Very cool looking.


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> There's a few fengru earbuds that look promising but very little reviews on them like this one too
> 
> Newest FENGRU HYCK100 1.2M Flat head Metal earphone DIY Double Dynamic Drive Unit earphone HiFi earpiece with MMCX Interface
> http://s.aliexpress.com/EziQBZBJ?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard.


Agreed - be great to read some reviews!


----------



## activatorfly

Would be cool to have a direct comparison with: Aurvana Air / Svara L / EBX / Ti7 - in order to make an informed decision ( - surely someone must have pulled the trigger on them!?)


----------



## activatorfly

Tracked down a sale last December of Fengru HYCK100 - (I guess they'd not been released too long before?) - Just pm'd both members regarding reviews...compared to the above buds & Masya.....Will post both opinions up here as soon as they reply!


----------



## seanc6441

activatorfly said:


> Tracked down a sale last December of Fengru HYCK100 - (I guess they'd not been released too long before?) - Just pm'd both members regarding reviews...compared to the above buds & Masya.....Will post both opinions up here as soon as they reply!


Nice detective work 

BTW they are notably cheaper on taobao sadly no shipping to EU though.


----------



## groucho69

Narayan23 said:


> The (profile) deed is done, I see yours is too, it seems everyone has Willsounds except me.



All the cool kids have Willsound


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> Nice detective work
> 
> BTW they are notably cheaper on taobao sadly no shipping to EU though.


Yeah - it has felt like detective work today...hahaha!! - just read sellers profile...the same reviewer that inspired me (as well as HP) to buy ToneKing TO200!

Synchronicity! - I'm on the second day of burning-in (& loving) these buds! - hence I can value his input concerning the elusive Fengru HYCK100!
- the plot & mystery thickens - why did he sell them so fast??? - is there a back-story of QC (defective) issues - that veils/unveils their transparency??? lol


----------



## activatorfly

groucho69 said:


> All the cool kids have Willsound


Not me - I've just been "Watching the Defectives" - not listening to them !! lol


----------



## activatorfly

activatorfly said:


> Not me - I've just been "Watching the Defectives" - not listening to them !! lol


Plot thickens......https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...&terminal_id=21ec14474d564bfeba3e6bc4320c3cf4


----------



## groucho69

I much prefer my plot thick.


----------



## seanc6441

activatorfly said:


> Plot thickens......https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...&terminal_id=21ec14474d564bfeba3e6bc4320c3cf4


did that just drop in price?... I was sure when I searched aliexpress earlier the 3 listed HYCK1000 sellers had the prices all around €63-66! Now I’m seeing €55... O.o


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> did that just drop in price?... I was sure when I searched aliexpress earlier the 3 listed HYCK1000 sellers had the prices all around €63-66! Now I’m seeing €55... O.o


I was pm'd the link....in the search box - if you omit "Fengru" & just enter "2018 New HYCK100"

Et Voila! - just one solitary "cheaper" return....bizarre to say the least - at this rate by tomorrow morning it'll have dropped even more!! - with even less reviews lol.


----------



## seanc6441

activatorfly said:


> I was pm'd the link....in the search box - if you omit "Fengru" & just enter "2018 New HYCK100"
> 
> Et Voila! - just one solitary "cheaper" return....bizarre to say the least - at this rate by tomorrow morning it'll have dropped even more!! - with even less reviews lol.


Maybe I only saw two results at around €65 and not this link. Nice work. Now lets have a spontaneous ali sale and I'll grab a pair


----------



## jogawag (Feb 25, 2022)

Collection of 3 "Docomo Earbuds" which is the original design of Yuin PK type shell.

1. Docomo phone FOMA P901iTV Black (2006)'s accessory (4 pole plug)
2. Docomo phone FOMA P901iTV White (2006)'s accessory (4 pole plug)
3. Docomo Earphone Set (2007)'s accessory (3 pole plug)



EDIT:
I think the drivers of Docomo Earphone Set (2007)'s accessory (3 pole plug) is a little diferrent from ones of Docomo phone FOMA P901iTV.
Instead of drivers of Docomo Earphone Set (2007), I think the drivers of Docomo Wireless Earphone Set (2006) 's accessory (3 pole plug) is docomo driver.


----------



## bavinck

Hey folks
Just recently got a ve monk for listening to audiobooks and light music duty .I really like them,the earbud form factor is really easy. Are there any other (generally) better buds for around the same price? I may go up to $30 if the sq was significantly better.


----------



## activatorfly (Aug 8, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Maybe I only saw two results at around €65 and not this link. Nice work. Now lets have a spontaneous ali sale and I'll grab a pair


Moi aussi!


groucho69 said:


> I much prefer my plot thick.


Indeed! The plot does thicken - especially when considering that Masya has a 16mm dynamic driver plus a 10mm dynamic driver!
Whereas, Fengru HYCK100 sports a 13.5 MM Double Dynamic driver unit.
I guess the tuning could be lacking - however they're advertised seemingly as having great synergy when paired with Zishan DSD ( - that's what caught my eye/ear!)
Additionally, the rear vent / grille suggests a likeness with Aurvana Air - renowned for it's "airy" sound-stage! - wish I could A/B them with a pair of EBX!


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 8, 2018)

bavinck said:


> Hey folks
> Just recently got a ve monk for listening to audiobooks and light music duty .I really like them,the earbud form factor is really easy. Are there any other (generally) better buds for around the same price? I may go up to $30 if the sq was significantly better.


Anything you want to improve on in particular? As in do you like the mid cetric and warmer/darker sound signature of the monks but just want an upgrade in everything else? Or would you like more bass extension, brighter treble, etc?

There's a good few other budget buds that many would consider better than the monks but may have a different signature.

I suggest the emx500 or Yincrow RW9 as a good place to start on the upgrade path from monks


----------



## bavinck

seanc6441 said:


> Anything you want to improve on in particular? As in do you like the mid cetric and warmer/darker sound signature of the monks but just want an upgrade in everything else? Or would you like more bass extension, brighter treble, etc?
> 
> There's a good few other budget buds that many would consider better than the monks but may have a different signature.
> 
> I suggest the emx500 or Yincrow RW9 as a good place to start on the upgrade path from monks


Nothing in particular, just been a while since I looked into buds. For my use (primarily audiobooks) a clean, clear, tight mid-range with a low transient response is probably ideal. Thanks, I'll look into your suggestions.


----------



## DBaldock9

bavinck said:


> Nothing in particular, just been a while since I looked into buds. For my use (primarily audiobooks) a clean, clear, tight mid-range with a low transient response is probably ideal. Thanks, I'll look into your suggestions.



If you'd like options, as far as the cable type you'd like to use (Mic/Audio Controls, 2.5mm Balanced, 3.5mm Single-Ended), then you might consider the PT15, with MMCX connectors.
Then you can get whichever cable suits your current, or future needs.
They have a very clear sound, with a bit of a Midrange / Treble emphasis - but the newer model has a much improved Bass response (compared to the original 2016 model).


----------



## 40760

Anyone with RMA experience for their earbuds? How long dues it usually take for them to assess and process the replacement?


----------



## activatorfly

Still no news/reviews regarding:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...&terminal_id=21ec14474d564bfeba3e6bc4320c3cf4


----------



## 40760

Anyone knows if there's any audible difference between the regular VE Zen 2.0 and the Zen 2.0 Omega Edition (ZOE)?

I see they're bundling a free ZEN LL with any purchase but thought I should check about the sound first before I decide...


----------



## activatorfly

activatorfly said:


> Still no news/reviews regarding:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...&terminal_id=21ec14474d564bfeba3e6bc4320c3cf4


Decided to give these a miss - received pm states that:

"the bass is a bit lacking for me, but the soundstage is massive compared to all my IEMs. I think their greatest strength is the high mid-highs. Violins, female singers, and cymbals just sound very elegant on them."


----------



## Vivicector

Hey, guys. Can you give me an advise? I want to make a present for my friend. Trouble is, he can't stand In-ear models. He only uses earbuds.

Can you recommend me some good earbuds with nice sound? He listens to metal, so need good bass, but it should not spoil mids and highs. Also, need it to be on the cheaper side since I am going to just gift them for no obvious reason (trying to drag him on the side of a good sound right from the branded cheap-crap mud). I don't suppose I can get Hi-Fi sound this way ofc.

I believe I can spend about 20 USD at max.

On Audiobudget I have found QianYun Qian69, do they sound right?


He is currently usng Sennheiser MX 170, how good are they objectively speaking? If I am going to order him something, it needs to be at least noticably better than those =).


----------



## golov17

@Vivicector 
http://s.aliexpress.com/rIjqeemI


----------



## mochill

Blox TM9 ordered :-D


----------



## rahmish

mochill said:


> Blox TM9 ordered :-D


How much if it's not a secret?


----------



## mochill

Very expensive


----------



## jogawag

279 usd?


----------



## seanc6441

Was looking at the TOTL moonbud nightingale but $300... If only I had the money, love TOTL PK buds!


----------



## subwoof3r

Finally received my two EBX replacement drivers from Jim today!

I'm finally surprised that both pair L and R now sound the exact same, which is really cool 

After cleaning them softly few mins ago and plugged them back, I was schocked because my problem like before appeared again (the R did not sound the same level as L again..) damn. But when I tried to gently turn the mmcx connector from the right driver when playing some music, it made a huge "CLAC!" sound coming from the driver (which surprised me a lot) and immediately the sound was fine again (same level as the L one).
So I suspect my cable to be "defective", I just ordered a new one from NiceHCK, *here is the one I choosed.*

I really hope this new cable will forever fix my problem. Moreover it looks better and even more well made than the original one that comes with EBX (which anyway is already nicely made).

But for now, all I can say is that EBX a clearly a huge upgrade from all my WIllsounds and my other earbuds. They are already my new favorites. The only major problem of EBX is to find the right seal. Using double foams is definitely not a luxe. I'm currently listening to them with mid thin foams and already very pleased. Incredible earbuds! I'm totally amazed on how I rediscovered all my favorite tracks and surprised how I never heard some details on them until now. Subbass and bass is incredible but here again I need to find the correct seal with some double foams tricks.
Stay tuned


----------



## HungryPanda

The EBX earbuds are truly wonderful


----------



## McCol (Aug 10, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Was looking at the TOTL moonbud nightingale but $300... If only I had the money, love TOTL PK buds!



My Moon Nightshade arrived today. Got them half price for being one of the first few to order.
Now as you know from our PM’s this is all new to me but first impressions are very positive. Excellent build quality and nice cable etc.
Sound wise it’s early days as I’ve only briefly tried with my iPhone X and Ibasso dx200. They are I believe 500ohm so iPhone was more or less full whack but they sounded good.
Ibasso on the other hand has no bother driving than and they sounded very good on my brief listen.


----------



## mochill

jogawag said:


> 279 usd?


Yes it is


----------



## seanc6441

McCol said:


> My Moon Nightshade arrived today. Got them half price for being one of the first few to order.
> Now as you know from our PM’s this is all new to me but first impressions are very positive. Excellent build quality and nice cable etc.
> Sound wise it’s early days as I’ve only briefly tried with my iPhone X and Ibasso dx200. They are I believe 500ohm so iPhone was more or less full whack but they sounded good.
> Ibasso on the other hand has no bother driving than and they sounded very good on my brief listen.


Wait till you get serious trying all sorts of foams and combinations to get the best SQ 

I love the cables on the moonbuds, are they as nice as they look in use?


----------



## McCol

seanc6441 said:


> Wait till you get serious trying all sorts of foams and combinations to get the best SQ
> 
> I love the cables on the moonbuds, are they as nice as they look in use?



I'm doing a night shift tonight and have brought the foams in with the earbuds to start trying them out!!

Cable is very nice, feels nice as well.


----------



## seanc6441

McCol said:


> I'm doing a night shift tonight and have brought the foams in with the earbuds to start trying them out!!
> 
> Cable is very nice, feels nice as well.


I recommend the VE donuts from the VE ex pack or the hiegi full foams but of course its very earbud specific with these foams. They really make a difference to the final signature and sound presentation.


----------



## McCol

seanc6441 said:


> I recommend the VE donuts from the VE ex pack or the hiegi full foams but of course its very earbud specific with these foams. They really make a difference to the final signature and sound presentation.



They came with a bag of different coloured foams, don't know what kinds they are but will work through them!  Only tried some black ones so far.


----------



## seanc6441

McCol said:


> They came with a bag of different coloured foams, don't know what kinds they are but will work through them!  Only tried some black ones so far.


The colours usually just signify RL difference but I usually find the black foams slightly better quality than coloured although they essentially the same foam in many cases. Usually you'll get standard full foams and standard donut foams. The rest are bought extra some for a bargain like the $1 thin foams for 50 pairs. Absolute steal even if the QC is poor on like 33% of them.


----------



## luedriver

mochill said:


> Blox TM9 ordered :-D



how did you order them, if it's not a secret?


----------



## waynes world

golov17 said:


> @Vivicector
> http://s.aliexpress.com/rIjqeemI



@Vivicector, golov17 speaks the truth.


----------



## mochill

luedriver said:


> how did you order them, if it's not a secret?


By email


----------



## mochill

I will always support my first earbud company that made me love earbuds, in if they are expensive B-)


----------



## golov17

mochill said:


> I will always support my first earbud company that made me love earbuds, in if they are expensive B-)


----------



## Danneq

TM7 was $149, but that was 6 years ago. The prices of each Cypherus earbud goes up and in general TOTL earbuds are becoming more expensive. So you cannot blame Blox, which has always been a brand of quality.

Guess I'll have to sell 1 or 2 pairs of buds to fund the TM9 purchase...


----------



## 40760

subwoof3r said:


> Finally received my two EBX replacement drivers from Jim today!
> 
> I'm finally surprised that both pair L and R now sound the exact same, which is really cool
> 
> ...



You make me feel like ordering one for myself...

But I don't know if it should be black or gold...


----------



## Vivicector

waynes world said:


> @Vivicector, golov17 speaks the truth.


Well, ok, but what is their sound signature? My friend likes it on bassy side (but not basshead style) and listens to metal.


----------



## DAndrew

Danneq said:


> TM7 was $149, but that was 6 years ago. The prices of each Cypherus earbud goes up and in general TOTL earbuds are becoming more expensive. So you cannot blame Blox, which has always been a brand of quality.
> 
> Guess I'll have to sell 1 or 2 pairs of buds to fund the TM9 purchase...



Let me know if the buds you are going to sell are gonna be Cypherus buds


----------



## Carrow

Moonbud Crescent 8-core are at my house! 

I don't get home until Tuesday night


----------



## redkingjoe

Danneq said:


> TM7 was $149, but that was 6 years ago. The prices of each Cypherus earbud goes up and in general TOTL earbuds are becoming more expensive. So you cannot blame Blox, which has always been a brand of quality.
> 
> Guess I'll have to sell 1 or 2 pairs of buds to fund the TM9 purchase...


Sell your aiwa


----------



## ClieOS

Danneq said:


> TM7 was $149, but that was 6 years ago. The prices of each Cypherus earbud goes up and in general TOTL earbuds are becoming more expensive. So you cannot blame Blox, which has always been a brand of quality.
> 
> Guess I'll have to sell 1 or 2 pairs of buds to fund the TM9 purchase...



Granted I still have no idea what the official price will be - if any of you can afford one, do get one before it runs out (*given Blox track record of small production number, this isn't that far fetch). It is good enough to be placed among the ToTL earbdus in the market right now.


----------



## McCol

Where do you order or see the Blox products?


----------



## jogawag

McCol said:


> Where do you order or see the Blox products?


You can order by email(sale@bloxearphone.com), then you can pay by paypal.


----------



## subwoof3r

palestofwhite said:


> You make me feel like ordering one for myself...
> 
> But I don't know if it should be black or gold...


I choosed the gold one, because more discret and color beautifully match the nice cable that comes with.

Damn, this EBX is just incredible, can't believe how much I missed so many details in my tracks collection. For sure a real TOTL earbud that should be much more recognized.
EBX fit and foams choose is something to really think about. I tried and succeed putting ABnormal gray foams (that came with my rholupat first willsound MK1 & 2 earbuds order) + heigi donut foams over it. Fit is very good with that combination but it didn't sounded very good to me (you lost many details in highs especially, while the seal is better so bass is more present but bass overwhelm other frequencies, and soundstage is thin). I found my best sounding configuration to be like the following: worn with cable around my ears and with just ABnormal foams (without anything else). This way, sound is clear and detailed, and enough bass and subbass to be enjoyed (at least for me) and soundstage becomes very large. The trick (I think) on EBX is to not cover the back plates with thick foams, as I'm pretty sure these vent holes are playing a high role. ABnormal foams are very good because fit and comfort is nice and they are enough thin (not extreme) to let drivers exprimate themselves correctly.
EBX is just an excellent allrounder for all music genres (trance, EDM, jazz, vocal, piano, etc). Everything sound just right (bass quantity, mids and highs). It's like I'm listening full headphones (I'm even more enjoying my EBX than my TH900 for now, just to say..)
Anyway I will do a proper review after receiving my new cable and finalize burning process (currently 40 hours approx). Where it's cool is that EBX is already enjoyable right out of the box.

Not sure I would like to order a TM9 as I'm much enjoying my EBX for now!
Cheers'


----------



## activatorfly

subwoof3r said:


> I choosed the gold one, because more discret and color beautifully match the nice cable that comes with.
> 
> Damn, this EBX is just incredible, can't believe how much I missed so many details in my tracks collection. For sure a real TOTL earbud that should be much more recognized.
> EBX fit and foams choose is something to really think about. I tried and succeed putting ABnormal gray foams (that came with my rholupat first willsound MK1 & 2 earbuds order) + heigi donut foams over it. Fit is very good with that combination but it didn't sounded very good to me (you lost many details in highs especially, while the seal is better so bass is more present but bass overwhelm other frequencies, and soundstage is thin). I found my best sounding configuration to be like the following: worn with cable around my ears and with just ABnormal foams (without anything else). This way, sound is clear and detailed, and enough bass and subbass to be enjoyed (at least for me) and soundstage becomes very large. The trick (I think) on EBX is to not cover the back plates with thick foams, as I'm pretty sure these vent holes are playing a high role. ABnormal foams are very good because fit and comfort is nice and they are enough thin (not extreme) to let drivers exprimate themselves correctly.
> ...


Think I'm going for gold too!


----------



## mochill

TM9 shipping August 14th for me


----------



## redkingjoe

I probably need to save some money for this!


----------



## 40760

Is the K's 300 Samsara a technically better earbud than the VE 2.0?


----------



## chinmie

palestofwhite said:


> Is the K's 300 Samsara a technically better earbud than the VE 2.0?



technically, to me they are on par, only tuning preferences are different.


----------



## 40760

chinmie said:


> technically, to me they are on par, only tuning preferences are different.



If you can only keep a pair of 300ohm earbuds, which will you choose? I'm looking into higher impedance earbuds to see what it actually does...

What about the Willsound 300 as compared to the two? 

I wanted to see if they can sound like open back headphones with great soundstage as what everyone else is claiming...


----------



## DAndrew

palestofwhite said:


> Is the K's 300 Samsara a technically better earbud than the VE 2.0?



What I can say for sure is that the Samsara has a better build, much better cable and plug


----------



## chinmie

palestofwhite said:


> If you can only keep a pair of 300ohm earbuds, which will you choose? I'm looking into higher impedance earbuds to see what it actually does...
> 
> What about the Willsound 300 as compared to the two?
> 
> I wanted to see if they can sound like open back headphones with great soundstage as what everyone else is claiming...



hmmm... can i not choose? 

the wiilsound is rolled off on bass, so it won't go deep, although for vocal or jazz music it's not a problem,but I'd say it is a specialized earbuds. 

if i could only have one, i would choose the Zen 2. i could use it without foams, and it is more versatile with foam changes (so you could have a really different sound with or without foams).

also mainly because the samsara is similar sounding to MK2 and i prefer the MK2 more because it has slightly less boom on midbass. noy to say the MK2 is better overall, this is just my preference.


----------



## redkingjoe

palestofwhite said:


> If you can only keep a pair of 300ohm earbuds, which will you choose? I'm looking into higher impedance earbuds to see what it actually does...
> 
> What about the Willsound 300 as compared to the two?
> 
> I wanted to see if they can sound like open back headphones with great soundstage as what everyone else is claiming...


I certainly would buy the blur 300ohm mmcx with silver shell. And use the Siltech earphones cable! I have the blur 300ohm, excellent sound but if the cable were Siltech, than it would be a whole lot better!


----------



## 40760

chinmie said:


> hmmm... can i not choose?
> 
> the wiilsound is rolled off on bass, so it won't go deep, although for vocal or jazz music it's not a problem,but I'd say it is a specialized earbuds.
> 
> ...



Now I remember... you're the one who preferred the MK2 to the Samsara! Okay that explains it all!


----------



## 40760

redkingjoe said:


> I certainly would buy the blur 300ohm mmcx with silver shell. And use the Siltech earphones cable! I have the blur 300ohm, excellent sound but if the cable were Siltech, than it would be a whole lot better!



Now I think it's really about the cables... I don't want to go that deep yet, so many a VE Zen Omega Edition will be a good start... since I can obtain better cables at a later stage...


----------



## ClieOS

jogawag said:


> You can order by email(sale@bloxearphone.com), then you can pay by paypal.



For those who are really interested, just got words from Blox that TM9 is $279 shipped.


----------



## DAndrew

palestofwhite said:


> Now I think it's really about the cables... I don't want to go that deep yet, so many a VE Zen Omega Edition will be a good start... since I can obtain better cables at a later stage...



Yeah but you will still get stuck with the drivers of the Zen, imo you should just pick the earbud that fits your preferred sound signature and go with it instead of taking something and then hoping cable swaps will change the sound signature


----------



## ClieOS

DAndrew said:


> Yeah but you will still get stuck with the drivers of the Zen, imo you should just pick the earbud that fits your preferred sound signature and go with it instead of taking something and then hoping cable swaps will change the sound signature



Though it is the same driver, ZOE with the Oyaide 102ssc cable (which is $20, or half off, when bought with ZOE) is definitely a good improvement over the standard Zen 2.0.


----------



## DAndrew

ClieOS said:


> Though it is the same driver, ZOE with the Oyaide 102ssc cable (which is $20, or half off, when bought with ZOE) is definitely a good improvement over the standard Zen 2.0.



I didnt say improvements wont happen with a better cable, just that changing cables has a limit on how the sound changes. Better to get something that sounds just like you want than to switch between cables to match that profile. Even better if its something you like AND you can change the cable, so you can see if it can get better


----------



## 40760

ClieOS said:


> Though it is the same driver, ZOE with the Oyaide 102ssc cable (which is $20, or half off, when bought with ZOE) is definitely a good improvement over the standard Zen 2.0.



What does the 102ssc improve on over the standard Zen 2.0 cable? You have my attention...


----------



## seanc6441

palestofwhite said:


> What does the 102ssc improve on over the standard Zen 2.0 cable? You have my attention...


That's the blue pure silver cable Lee is giving for $60 if you buy ZOE right? That cable looks really nice...


----------



## ClieOS

palestofwhite said:


> What does the 102ssc improve on over the standard Zen 2.0 cable? You have my attention...



More balanced overall. I always find the original Zen 2.0 is a bit too smooth on the warm side and requires a brighter and detailed source to shine. The Oyaide cable really takes care of this issue and the ZOE sounds more balanced without too much attention into find the right synergy with different source.


----------



## mika91 (Aug 12, 2018)

Ok.
So after a week of readings, my wishlist is reduced to three mmcx earbuds:

OurArt TI7 - 60$
HYCK100 - 70$
NiceHCK EBX - 100$
From different reviews, it seems both TI7 and EBX needs some EQ to perform best in subbass and bass. What about hyck100?
It's strange that the budget emx500 seems to be the reference in term of EQ in bass/treeble extensions!

Regarding the hyck100, I expect it to be the more "opened", the less "in-head" listening. But for my work colleagues point of view, I'm not sure they will appreciate to listen my music 
Or the output volume will be too quiet to be notice?

Are the more expensive EBX technically better? and the best quality/price ratio?

I'd like the most plug&play earbuds, without EQ if possible and with silicone donnut (not a huge fan of foam for now)
I'll use them in my office openspace, so need to put them on/off quite often, without the need to worry about their positioning in my ears


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> That's the blue pure silver cable Lee is giving for $60 if you buy ZOE right? That cable looks really nice...



I think that's an even better cable... We're talking about the cheaper one...


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 12, 2018)

mika91 said:


> Ok.
> So after a week of readings, my wishlist is reduced to three mmcx earbuds:
> 
> OurArt TI7 - 60$
> ...


I'm guessing from impressions that the EBX has more sub bass extension. You have to EQ the TI7 just to get adequate-decent bass response. Whereas some seem to suggest with a good seal or EQ the EBX has a good sub bass presence. I love my TI7 EQ'd but it's not a basshead earbud even after EQ it's merely balanced.

The imaging is just about TOTL quality though IMO. Holds up to the shozy BK, Masya and even the Mojito and Ling in many imaging departments. It's just so natural and easy to place both in depth and width where everything is playing., and it doesn't have 'blind spots' in the soundstage. Infact it is wider than the BK and has a slightly more complete- natural presentation than the Masya even though the soundstage is just medium in size, it's really irrelevant when the imaging is good enough to allow clean separation and precise placement.


----------



## mika91

TI7 or EBX is TOTL imaging quality?


----------



## seanc6441

mika91 said:


> TI7 or EBX is TOTL imaging quality?


For me using heigi donuts on my TI7 it holds up to my TOTL earbuds for imaging and it's natural timbre.

It falls short on bass extension and presence. Everything else is above average especially detail and smooth extended treble response which is very good thanks to the titanium driver I guess.


----------



## rkw

ClieOS said:


> For those who are really interested, just got words from Blox that TM9 is $279 shipped.


What do you think of TM9 for classical music? I'm looking for realistic reproduction of live acoustic instruments, with minimal coloration.


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> That's the blue pure silver cable Lee is giving for $60 if you buy ZOE right? That cable looks really nice...


Nope: https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=3
Blue cable is silver.  Oyaide is copper: https://www.monoandstereo.com/2014/12/oyaide-102-ssc-copper-cable-new.html


----------



## silverfishla

mika91 said:


> TI7 or EBX is TOTL imaging quality?


I think he’s saying don’t get the Ti7 because it lacks reasonable bass and that he hasn’t heard the EBX.


----------



## seanc6441

silverfishla said:


> I think he’s saying don’t get the Ti7 because it lacks reasonable bass and that he hasn’t heard the EBX.


Definitely not saying don't get it just forwarning bassheads or anyone expecting it to deliver powerful low end that's not gonna happen. I do really love it for anything more mid and treble focused though. It can handle some mid bassy stuff too, just nothing too reliant on sub bass rumble.


----------



## bavinck

Read somewhere here that my monk plus likes to be amped. So I pulled out my old daps and plugged it in  Whoa! Big improvement. Still pretty dark, and all but missing bass (sub anyway) and top end, but those mids are very nice.

After a weekend of listening to this thing and reading all your thoughts in this thread I am in talks with several (yikes!) people to make me much, much more expensive gear that has been recommended here. These buds are breathing life back into my audio-heart! And deflating my wallet....


----------



## ClieOS

rkw said:


> What do you think of TM9 for classical music? I'm looking for realistic reproduction of live acoustic instruments, with minimal coloration.



I find it goes well with most genre of music. It has that kind of tuning that doesn't focus on a specific area of any frequency range and that makes it pretty versatile.


----------



## luedriver

ClieOS said:


> I find it goes well with most genre of music. It has that kind of tuning that doesn't focus on a specific area of any frequency range and that makes it pretty versatile.



since no one has asked yet (I think), how does the tm9 compare to mx985?


----------



## 40760

ClieOS said:


> More balanced overall. I always find the original Zen 2.0 is a bit too smooth on the warm side and requires a brighter and detailed source to shine. The Oyaide cable really takes care of this issue and the ZOE sounds more balanced without too much attention into find the right synergy with different source.



So... I made an order for the ZOE and 102ssc cable... 

Still waiting for them to adjust the price before I pay...

This will be my first pair of earbuds with replaceable cables...


----------



## ClieOS

luedriver said:


> since no one has asked yet (I think), how does the tm9 compare to mx985?



Technical wise, they are all in the ToTL level. Argument can probably be made on which earbud does what aspect a tiny bit better than the other, but the fact that TM9 sounds almost like a big can to me is just beyond comparison.


----------



## RobinFood

ClieOS said:


> Technical wise, they are all in the ToTL level. Argument can probably be made on which earbud does what aspect a tiny bit better than the other, but the fact that TM9 sounds almost like a big can to me is just beyond comparison.



Is the MX985 still relevant these days? It used to be the best of the best, but a lot has happened since then. They still seem to be readily available in some shops here for about 120$ (they still sell disk players here...), but you can get a lot for 120$ now...


----------



## ClieOS

RobinFood said:


> Is the MX985 still relevant these days? It used to be the best of the best, but a lot has happened since then. They still seem to be readily available in some shops here for about 120$ (they still sell disk players here...), but you can get a lot for 120$ now...



It isn't THE best of the best anymore, but still among the best. However, I won't recommend you to pick up any MX985 - as it has been discontinued for awhile now and Sennheiser flagship earbuds all have the issue of aging cable that crack very easily.


----------



## Vivicector

Guys, how bad are Sennheiser MX 170 compared to some 10-20 USD earbuds? 

Also, what 10-20 USD earbuds can you recommend for metal music. Need something on the bassy side, but not too much, mids and highs are still important.

P.S. Rly need help, since I am trying to choose a present for a friend.


----------



## 40760 (Aug 13, 2018)

Delete. Quit.


----------



## ClieOS (Aug 13, 2018)

@palestofwhite I do think you might have been assuming too much when it comes to Penon Audio. Let;'s actually wait till you received the Lyra Classic first before giving out your judgement, as it might not be as bad as you have imagined.

The warranty situation on AE is rather simple - most of the earbuds maker in China simply don't know how to deal with international market (mostly due to language barrier, the lack of sale channel as well as the difficulty of warranty repair) and they already have a big enough market back home that allow them to ignore the outside world. If you have to buy earbuds from the 'official channel' than you will probably end up not able to buy most of the Chinese earbuds at all, as many of the earbuds seller that are willing to carry these Chinese earbuds are unofficial reseller rather than authorized dealer, going back to the fact that many earbuds brand really don't want to have a international market nor have the resource to maintain one. However, some of the long time AE reseller or reseller companies like Penon have been in the business long enough to figure out how to juggle unofficial warranty / repair claim, and I don't think they are going to come short intentionally just to destroy their own business model.


----------



## bavinck

Palesofwhite, I have bought many things from penon and find them stand up in my experience. I did have to send back a couple earphones for replacement. In both cases I had very little info from them, sent it in and they eventually (maybe a month later?) sent a replaced and perfect unit to me. The second time I did it I stepped on my iem by accident and was hoping to pay to fix it. They sent back a brand new pair (a month later or more) without even asking for payment! I offered to pay return shipping and they accepted.

Penon are not the best at communication, maybe it is a language thing. However, I have never once had an issue with them that is suspect on their motives or morality, they have always been accommodating and honest in my experience. 

The moral of the story is, see what you get back. It might be a new pair! If not and you still have issues just send it back and ask them to replace them. A hassle I know, but it will work out if you keep asking them.


----------



## euge

I've had my rose masya, and shozy bk replaced by penon without hassle, they were always very reassuring. It did take a while for the repair, but that was on rose & shozy.
Ordered a TM9, really looking forward to them  it's a shame they're not the super comfortable PK shells


----------



## mochill

Youll enjoy the TM9 for sure, blox is the best


----------



## bavinck

I might have just ordered a TM9 too. And a couple others over on Facebook. Gotta get offline or I'm not going to be able to eat....


----------



## seanc6441

bavinck said:


> I might have just ordered a TM9 too. And a couple others over on Facebook. Gotta get offline or I'm not going to be able to eat....


Earbuds>Food

Who needs to eat when you can enjoy music


----------



## bavinck

seanc6441 said:


> Earbuds>Food
> 
> Who needs to eat when you can enjoy music


Audio is the best weight loss plan I have tried!


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> Earbuds>Food
> 
> Who needs to eat when you can enjoy music



How will you listen to music after you have starved to death?


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> How will you listen to music after you have starved to death?


Emmmmm... Good point...


----------



## bavinck

Unfortunately I am


seanc6441 said:


> Emmmmm... Good point...


I'm a long way from starving (unfortunately) so not a concern for me


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Hello Guys!

I'm trying to find the Rose Mojito to buy everywhere. Does anyone know if was it discontinued? In this case, anyone knows something that can sound as it sound? I have ZOE and Zen LL that I love but I'm looking for an improvement.

Thank you!!!


----------



## seanc6441

Marcos Fontana said:


> Hello Guys!
> 
> I'm trying to find the Rose Mojito to buy everywhere. Does anyone know if was it discontinued? In this case, anyone knows something that can sound as it sound? I have ZOE and Zen LL that I love but I'm looking for an improvement.
> 
> Thank you!!!


Penon audio or aliexpress? Mojito is quite a polarizing sound though, especially if you are not looking to EQ. It's nothing like the Zen lite for instance, quite harsh or revealing in stock tuning. Just a heads up


----------



## Marcos Fontana

seanc6441 said:


> Penon audio or aliexpress? Mojito is quite a polarizing sound though, especially if you are not looking to EQ. It's nothing like the Zen lite for instance, quite harsh or revealing in stock tuning. Just a heads up



I checked everywhere , including Penon and aliexpress. It's out of stock.


----------



## seanc6441

Marcos Fontana said:


> I checked everywhere , including Penon and aliexpress. It's out of stock.


Wow your right and it was in stock very recently... Must be out if production now? Or atleast penon had run out for now.

If you're not opposed to buying second hand I see them listed on headfi a lot. Also saw one guy on r/avexhange (reddit) list one for $110 + shipping I think in the US. That's the lowest price I've seen yet for one! If it's still for sale that is. His account was u/NYCReaching


----------



## Marcos Fontana

seanc6441 said:


> Wow your right and it was in stock very recently... Must be out if production now? Or atleast penon had run out for now.
> 
> If you're not opposed to buying second hand I see them listed on headfi a lot. Also saw one guy on r/avexhange (reddit) list one for $110 + shipping I think in the US. That's the lowest price I've seen yet for one! If it's still for sale that is. His account was u/NYCReaching



Yeah,

But I prefer to buy a new one. I will wait to get a response from Penon. I sent a message asking when it will be available. I will update this thread with the information.

Thank you very much!


----------



## ClieOS

Mojito is definitely not discontinued just yet. You can still get one from Rose Tech. if you can buy from Taobao.


----------



## rkw

Interesting about Mojito availability. I just bought mine from Penon's eBay store last month (took advantage of an eBay site-wide 15% sale promotion).

BTW, mine doesn't have the rectangular ROSE plaque that I've always seen in photos. I don't mind because I always thought the plaque looked like a glued-on afterthought.


----------



## ClieOS

No, you still have the plaque, but it is circular now so you didn't notice it. Still a glue-on though.


----------



## jogawag (Aug 15, 2018)

rkw said:


> Interesting about Mojito availability. I just bought mine from Penon's eBay store last month (took advantage of an eBay site-wide 15% sale promotion).
> 
> BTW, mine doesn't have the rectangular ROSE plaque that I've always seen in photos. I don't mind because I always thought the plaque looked like a glued-on afterthought.


The rectangular "ROSE" plate is only a glued-on, so my old Mojito's "ROSE" plates’s corners were caught and R/L sides have fallen off!
It is famous that QC of RoseTech is always very bad.
So changing to circular "ROSE" plates printed red and blue letters are reasonable improvement and it's rare case.


Edit:
I changed eartips because the reputation of eartips I used was bad.


----------



## 40760

ClieOS said:


> @palestofwhite I do think you might have been assuming too much when it comes to Penon Audio. Let;'s actually wait till you received the Lyra Classic first before giving out your judgement, as it might not be as bad as you have imagined.
> 
> The warranty situation on AE is rather simple - most of the earbuds maker in China simply don't know how to deal with international market (mostly due to language barrier, the lack of sale channel as well as the difficulty of warranty repair) and they already have a big enough market back home that allow them to ignore the outside world. If you have to buy earbuds from the 'official channel' than you will probably end up not able to buy most of the Chinese earbuds at all, as many of the earbuds seller that are willing to carry these Chinese earbuds are unofficial reseller rather than authorized dealer, going back to the fact that many earbuds brand really don't want to have a international market nor have the resource to maintain one. However, some of the long time AE reseller or reseller companies like Penon have been in the business long enough to figure out how to juggle unofficial warranty / repair claim, and I don't think they are going to come short intentionally just to destroy their own business model.






bavinck said:


> Palesofwhite, I have bought many things from penon and find them stand up in my experience. I did have to send back a couple earphones for replacement. In both cases I had very little info from them, sent it in and they eventually (maybe a month later?) sent a replaced and perfect unit to me. The second time I did it I stepped on my iem by accident and was hoping to pay to fix it. They sent back a brand new pair (a month later or more) without even asking for payment! I offered to pay return shipping and they accepted.
> 
> Penon are not the best at communication, maybe it is a language thing. However, I have never once had an issue with them that is suspect on their motives or morality, they have always been accommodating and honest in my experience.
> 
> The moral of the story is, see what you get back. It might be a new pair! If not and you still have issues just send it back and ask them to replace them. A hassle I know, but it will work out if you keep asking them.



My paranoia has gotten the best of me. I’m going to go away in shame and apologise...

They’re sending me a new piece and I have to stop posting and seek treatment...


----------



## silverfishla

palestofwhite said:


> My paranoia has gotten the best of me. I’m going to go away in shame and apologise...
> They’re sending me a new piece and I have to stop posting and seek treatment...



I think you’re okay.  I think we all understood your concerns.  Penon is really good, so I knew it was going to be okay.
The one thing with the Chinese sellers is that their feedback is of supreme importance to them.  Most will remedy a situation like yours to satisfaction.  The shipping time and language barrier are always a hurdle, but most are very fair.


----------



## ClieOS

jogawag said:


>



Traitor!!!


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Good news!

Response from Penon:

*
hi dear friend

thanks for your email , I am glad to tell you that rose mojito will be avaialble at the end of this month .

and we will keep you posted when we get it in stock .

any questions , pls feel free to contact us .

best regards

*


----------



## jogawag

ClieOS said:


> Traitor!!!


Traitor?
Do you mean that I use silicon chip (for R130)?


----------



## ClieOS

jogawag said:


> Traitor?
> Do you mean that I use silicon chip (for R130)?



For daring to turn an earbud to in-ear and post the picture here!


----------



## jogawag (Aug 14, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> For daring to turn an earbud to in-ear and post the picture here!


I always wear earbuds by Vertical Wearing (setting speaker forward [to "tragus"]). And with Vertical Wearing, Almost earbuds shell  are thin flat head, I do not need to use such eartips.
But in order to wear earbuds shells like Rose Mojito/Masya which has thick flat head, they hit behind the ear hole, so I need to use such eartips.
Do not worry about such details ...

It's like Yuin OK1 you dislike.


----------



## golov17

jogawag said:


> The rectangular "ROSE" plate is only a glued-on, so my old Mojito's "ROSE" plates’s corners were caught and R/L sides have fallen off!
> It is famous that QC of RoseTech is always very bad.
> So changing to circular "ROSE" plates printed red and blue letters are reasonable improvement and it's rare case.






ClieOS said:


> For daring to turn an earbud to in-ear and post the picture here!


----------



## golov17

Earbuds forever


----------



## Snowball0906

Anyone tried Willsound’s mk300?


----------



## chinmie

jogawag said:


> The rectangular "ROSE" plate is only a glued-on, so my old Mojito's "ROSE" plates’s corners were caught and R/L sides have fallen off!
> It is famous that QC of RoseTech is always very bad.
> So changing to circular "ROSE" plates printed red and blue letters are reasonable improvement and it's rare case.



i tried that eartips, but it seema to compromise the sound quality quite a bit for me



golov17 said:


> Earbuds forever



did you changed the front grill on your zen? how's the difference in sound? 



Snowball0906 said:


> Anyone tried Willsound’s mk300?



i have. great for vocals


----------



## jogawag (Aug 14, 2018)

chinmie said:


> i tried that eartips, but it seema to compromise the sound quality quite a bit for me


I do not want to recommend that eartips for the ordinary way of wearing earbuds, but only want you to watch the sample Mojito which plates are off...


----------



## ClieOS

chinmie said:


> did you changed the front grill on your zen? how's the difference in sound?



Ostry KC08's front grill, IINM.


----------



## golov17

ClieOS said:


> Ostry KC08's front grill, IINM.


yes, Ostry's front covers have additional holes closer to the center. I liked the sound.


----------



## RobinFood

Well, the cable for my MK2 is greening, but only mostly where the cable touches the side of my face. Is there any way to quickly get the whole cable to green? I don't mind green, but I don't like the blotchy look....


----------



## Guggga

Sleep with it wrapped around your face maybe


----------



## RobinFood

Guggga said:


> Sleep with it wrapped around your face maybe



I would but my beard growing back in the night would cut the wire


----------



## seanc6441

jogawag said:


> I always wear earbuds by Vertical Wearing (setting speaker forward (to "tragus")). And with Vertical Wearing, Almost earbuds shell  are thin flat head, I do not need to use such eartips.
> But in order to wear earbuds shells like Rose Mojito/Masya which has thick flat head, they hit behind the ear hole, so I need to use such eartips.
> Do not worry about such details ...
> 
> It's like Yuin OK1 you dislike.


does it sound in any way decent? All the silicone covers and eartip like designs ive tried have messed with the acoustics way too much and made the sound very odd.


----------



## seanc6441

golov17 said:


> Earbuds forever


Golov did you buy this cover somewhere? Any link I could have?  I really love the design and do not like traditional MX500 cover layout.


----------



## Snowball0906

chinmie said:


> i tried that eartips, but it seema to compromise the sound quality quite a bit for me
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How about the others? Instruments etc? Is it airy?


----------



## Snowball0906

May i know which earbuds do u guys recommend from Faaeal?


----------



## golov17

seanc6441 said:


> Golov did you buy this cover somewhere? Any link I could have?  I really love the design and do not like traditional MX500 cover layout.


Just part of Ostry kc08... kc08t for me and kc08 for my Zen ))


----------



## bavinck

Rub sweat all over the wire to make it green


----------



## mbwilson111 (Aug 14, 2018)

Snowball0906 said:


> May i know which earbuds do u guys recommend from Faaeal?



I enjoy the Rosemary.  It is 150 ohm though.  I use it with my more powerful Daps.  It is good with my Cayin N3 or my Hidizs AP200


----------



## HungryPanda

Snowball0906 said:


> May i know which earbuds do u guys recommend from Faaeal?


I rather like the Snow Lotus 2.0


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> I rather like the Snow Lotus 2.0



I enjoyed the hours that I spent with the Snow Lotus 2.0.  For some reason the Rosemary suits me more... you will have to help me figure out why   One big difference is the cable.  The Snow Lotus cable is massively heavy.  The Rosemary cable is light, soft and comfortable.  No weight drag at all.  It is fabric below the Y and PVC above.. no microphonics. Photo from a sellers site. Not my photo.


----------



## subwoof3r

I am SO WEAK.......


..... *Blox TM9 ordered !!* 

Btw, Woo told me that next year Blox will have some more new high end earbuds to offer due to his whole new platform, which is an excellent news!

Currently so much enjoying my EBX. My best earbuds so far since the beginning! I will make a comparison between EBX for my future full TM9 review. So, stay tuned!
Cheers'


----------



## mochill

Congratulations on the TM9, and can't wait for more blox


----------



## deepanshu830

I need a earbud with energetic mids and highs, fast pace bass with good attack and impact , toe tapping signature , overall aggressive upfront enjoyable kind of signature. My budget is around 10-20$ , but if its worth i can go upto 100$. Any suggestion folks.


----------



## mika91

mika91 said:


> Ok.
> So after a week of readings, my wishlist is reduced to three mmcx earbuds:
> 
> OurArt TI7 - 60$
> ...



So I finally took a decision, and ordered the EBX.

The lack of reviews for the hyck100 and the imperative need of EQ for the TI7 (and the fact that I suspect it would be more difficult to sell, due to its design, if I don't like how it sounds) are my main cons for these contenders.

The EBX has excellent reviews, more plug&play that the TI7, seems to fit my musical tastes, very good stock wire...
Can't wait to listen them now ^^

Thanks all for you help.
I'm still curious about TI7 and "cheap" exm500, maybe on day I'll complete my beginning earbuds collection


----------



## rkw

subwoof3r said:


> ..... *Blox TM9 ordered !!*
> 
> Btw, Woo told me that next year Blox will have some more new high end earbuds to offer due to his whole new platform, which is an excellent news!


Groan... I was thinking about committing to a TM9, but this makes me want to wait and see what else is coming up.


----------



## DBaldock9

mika91 said:


> So I finally took a decision, and ordered the EBX.
> 
> The lack of reviews for the hyck100 and the imperative need of EQ for the TI7 (and the fact that I suspect it would be more difficult to sell, due to its design, if I don't like how it sounds) are my main cons for these contenders.
> 
> ...



With a good seal to your ears, the EBX has very good low Bass.
Otherwise, through the Midrange & Treble, they actually sound similar to the Ti7.


----------



## euge

deepanshu830 said:


> I need a earbud with energetic mids and highs, fast pace bass with good attack and impact , toe tapping signature , overall aggressive upfront enjoyable kind of signature. My budget is around 10-20$ , but if its worth i can go upto 100$. Any suggestion folks.



Maybe the Seahf AWK F150C


----------



## Lothar101

Anybody recommend a earbud that sounds like Trinity Vyrus 1 ?


----------



## seanc6441

Once you see 'anyone recommend x/why is no one mentioning x' you just know it was it's gonna be an IEM 

Lo and behold after checking it is an IEM. Who'd have thunk it^^

@Lothar101 

Sorry to be having fun at your expense mate, but this is an earbud thread, we don't discuss IEM's here


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Once you see 'anyone recommend x/why is no one mentioning x' you just know it was it's gonna be an IEM
> 
> Lo and behold after checking it is an IEM. Who'd have thunk it^^
> 
> ...



well, @Lothar101 did mention looking for an earbud that sounded like that particular IEM, so that is a valid topic for this thread. if I'm not mistaken @HungryPanda have the Vyrus on his collection, might be able to help you with that question


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> well, @Lothar101 did mention looking for an earbud that sounded like that particular IEM, so that is a valid topic for this thread. if I'm not mistaken @HungryPanda have the Vyrus on his collection, might be able to help you with that question


I had to go back and read his comment because I thought you were trying to trick me lol

How did I mis-read that so much... Sorry @Lothar101

My bad carry on and pretend my comment doesn't exist :'D


----------



## Lothar101 (Aug 14, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Once you see 'anyone recommend x/why is no one mentioning x' you just know it was it's gonna be an IEM
> 
> Lo and behold after checking it is an IEM. Who'd have thunk it^^
> 
> ...


I want an earbud with a similar signature . I was on here before with my name Brian Coffey. Then the new software and left for over a year because I hated it so much.Can't get into that account so made another....Lol


----------



## chaiyuta

Last Saturday, I went to the Supersonic X Prakarn Niranam Meeting in Bangkok. This time Mr.Patrabordin, the mastermind of PHRAKAR brand, together with his family came from his hometown so as to join this meeting and meet his fanclub. I heard that there are many international customers has already bought his product over 20+ pairs. Pictures are inside a spoiler below. 



Spoiler: 20180811 Prakarn Niranam Meeting






 
The Supersonic owner presented L&P player line-up, BGVP line-up and NF audio line-up.



 
Mr.Patrabordin (the light Blue shirt) and his wife on his right-hand.



 
A lot of phrakar 32 and 64 Ohm earbuds were prepared for customers who always miss a pre-order period.




For those who want one, Raise your hands up!



 
These are phrakar 185Ohms earbuds with same drivers, same tuning and same Toxic Silver Poison V2 cable. One is 4.4mm Furutech Stainless Steel barrel and another one is 4.4mm Furutech Carbon Fiber barrel. The owner intentionally made these demo unit on purpose for let everyone listen and understand how plug (conductor and barrel) affects to sound quality. Well, after I tried both, I will never buy 4.4mm Furutech Stainless Steel barrel.



 
phrakar 185 Ohm earbuds with clear shells, Toxic SPC Litz a.k.a Toxic Adder (The last work piece cable of Mr. Frank before he died.) and a 4.4mm directional-in Rosenkranz plug.



 
DX200 with AMP8, DX20 with AMP4s and DX200 with AMP4.



 
Inside AROMA A100, 2 dual op-amp can be replaced. This amp is pretty good.



For more pictures are here.


----------



## redkingjoe

chaiyuta said:


> Last Saturday, I went to the Supersonic X Prakarn Niranam Meeting in Bangkok. This time Mr.Patrabordin, the mastermind of PHRAKAR brand, together with his family came from his hometown so as to join this meeting and meet his fanclub. I heard that there are many international customers has already bought his product over 20+ pairs. Pictures are inside a spoiler below.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very interesting!

Envying too! So difficult to get some gathering like this!


----------



## redkingjoe

Saw this on FB! What’s that?


----------



## chaiyuta

@redkingjoe : its shape looks alike MX475 or MX585 but it is not...

By the way, UCOTECH, a korean earphones brand, is going to release the new flagship ES series model in the next month. Further info & specs will be revealed very soon.



Spoiler: UCOTECH New Flagship earbuds 2018 09


----------



## ClieOS

redkingjoe said:


> Saw this on FB! What’s that?



Sennheiser MX581, an old model.



chaiyuta said:


> By the way, UCOTECH, a korean earphones brand, is going to release the new flagship ES series model in the next month. Further info & specs will be revealed very soon.



I have quite a few Ucotech's earbuds. They are not bad sounding at all, but usually are just too pricy to recommend when cheaper options sound just as good if not better. If they can lower their price then they should do a lot better.


----------



## ValSilva

ClieOS said:


> Though it is the same driver, ZOE with the Oyaide 102ssc cable (which is $20, or half off, when bought with ZOE) is definitely a good improvement over the standard Zen 2.0.



ClieOS, have you tried it with another cable, a cheap one like Penon CS819? I like the oyaide 102ssc, but it's a little bit stiff.


----------



## ClieOS

ValSilva said:


> ClieOS, have you tried it with another cable, a cheap one like Penon CS819? I like the oyaide 102ssc, but it's a little bit stiff.



Not with this particular Penon cable. I have tried some pure silver cable (*MMCX over a 0.78mm adapter) before and the result is pretty good too.


----------



## RobinFood

ClieOS said:


> Sennheiser MX581, an old model.
> 
> 
> 
> I have quite a few Ucotech's earbuds. They are not bad sounding at all, but usually are just too pricy to recommend when cheaper options sound just as good if not better. If they can lower their price then they should do a lot better.



Definitely...I tried a few at the store, and while they did sound good, they didn't sound 200-300$ good. The names they give their buds are cool though.


----------



## ValSilva

ClieOS said:


> Not with this particular Penon cable. I have tried some pure silver cable (*MMCX over a 0.78mm adapter) before and the result is pretty good too.


Tks ClieOS, can I find it on AliExpress?


----------



## ClieOS (Aug 15, 2018)

ValSilva said:


> Tks ClieOS, can I find it on AliExpress?



The cable I used comes with another earbuds. It is not a standalone product.


----------



## ValSilva

Thank you so much ClieOS. You're so helpful


----------



## ValSilva

Lunch time: eat, then find some place to hide:



 

Zoe + Cayin N3 + Fiio A3


----------



## HungryPanda (Aug 15, 2018)

Lothar101 said:


> Anybody recommend a earbud that sounds like Trinity Vyrus 1 ?


 I have the Trinity Audio Vyrus 2 and I think the EMX500s and NiceHCK EB200 are similar sounding earbuds. The EMX500s is closer and the EB200 is 200 ohms and needs a bit more juice


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Aug 15, 2018)

Earbuds are generally not my thing but there are really practical uses for them, for me. I currently own 2 pairs of apples and 2 pair of VE Monks. I like the monks very much, but the bass is lacking.

So looking for recs on basshead buds with clarity, and also anything thats w shaped. Think 6 in 1xba sound sig.

Im currently interested in NiceHCK ebx. Is this a good play? 
Under 100 please


----------



## seanc6441

snip3r77 said:


> Thanks BTW why is so that the NiceHCK panda is good?


TBH for me the panda is only 'good' if you like mid centric smooth-warmer sound. It has excellent mids. Or if you use EQ and put a V shape I guess it can be really balanced because it has some bass and treble but needs more emphasis on the extended frequency.

It's very thick and lush in the mids though, with good detail.


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 15, 2018)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Earbuds are generally not my thing but there are really practical uses for them, for me. I currently own 2 pairs of apples and 2 pair of VE Monks. I like the monks very much, but the bass is lacking.
> 
> So looking for recs on basshead buds with clarity, and also anything thats w shaped. Think 6 in 1xba sound sig.
> 
> ...


If the K's Samsara goes on sale for $90-100 (but is currently at RRP of $140) I'd say that's what you're looking for as the K's house sound (on my K's Ling) is a little W shaped, well its more V shaped but with the dip in the upper bass-low mids so vocals are still forward. And sub bass and treble are emphasised nicely.

There's also the TY Hi-z 150 (s version is balanced) which seems to have the signature you are after.

Something cheaper to consider is the Vido/Yincrow x6 or the Yincrow RW-9. The former being more V shaped and the latter more less recessed mids so more balanced.

Read impressions on those and see if they suit your preferences. The samsara is always going on sale during aliexpress promotional sales.


----------



## Lothar101

HungryPanda said:


> I have the Trinity Audio Vyrus 2 and I think the EMX500s and NiceHCK EB200 are similar sounding earbuds. The EMX500s is closer and the EB200 is 200 ohms and needs a bit more juice


I have EMX500 Bro on the way. Hopefully it will be close.


----------



## HungryPanda

I was actually mentioning the EMX500s not the EMX500 but both are very good earbuds


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> I was actually mentioning the EMX500s not the EMX500 but both are very good earbuds


About half the opinions i read say they sound the same but have a different cable, while others say they sound different.

Might have something to do with buying from different sellers who use slightly different tuning matierials and cables.


----------



## HungryPanda

Tonight I'm loving the Seahf AWK-F320S listening to Missy Higgin's new album......


----------



## Lothar101

HungryPanda said:


> I was actually mentioning the EMX500s not the EMX500 but both are very good earbuds


I already had the EMX500 Bro's on the way before asking. They should be here soon.


----------



## HungryPanda

No problem I have them too and they are good


----------



## chinmie

Lothar101 said:


> I already had the EMX500 Bro's on the way before asking. They should be here soon.



It looks like the universe had helped you make a choice in advance


----------



## theoutsider (Aug 16, 2018)

To fix this, you need a wrench.

Has anyone ordered the FAAEAL Datura X ?


----------



## chinmie

theoutsider said:


> To fix this, you need a wrench.
> 
> Has anyone ordered the FAAEAL Datura X ?



i have. waiting for it to arrive


----------



## bavinck

OK so I got a shozy bk yesterday on the recommends here. Nice build, quality sound. I do find the bass a bit wooly out of the box so I tried some monk+ foams on them which helped tame the bass a bit and open up the top end. What kind of foams are people here using on these?


----------



## kw8910

PK32 MMCX & MK300 MMCX
Got these in yesterday and loving them... thank you @WillSound


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 16, 2018)

bavinck said:


> OK so I got a shozy bk yesterday on the recommends here. Nice build, quality sound. I do find the bass a bit wooly out of the box so I tried some monk+ foams on them which helped tame the bass a bit and open up the top end. What kind of foams are people here using on these?


These 



Sound the most neutral with a balance between bass impact and airy treble. But require some diy-ing to make.

Definitely not wooly sounding with this combo, slightly less smooth/forgiving in the upper frequencies though hence being more neutral than dark.

These are double thin foams but not from the monk lite pack, these are from aliexpress and I find them more transparent and don't destroy the imaging like the newer monk lite foams do.

I've tried so many combos with the bk and I think this is the best for tonal balance and keeping enough extension on both ends (although some sub bass EQ boost really helps a lot here).


----------



## bavinck

Do you have a link for those foams? You just cut out the middle to make a doughnut? Thanks m8


----------



## jogawag (Aug 16, 2018)

bavinck said:


> Do you have a link for those foams? You just cut out the middle to make a doughnut? Thanks m8


*HIeGI Earpad *
https://www.amazon.com//dp/B00CBTOMV6


----------



## seanc6441

bavinck said:


> Do you have a link for those foams? You just cut out the middle to make a doughnut? Thanks m8



These thin foams http://s.aliexpress.com/mI7vMvA7

This double side tape also (choose the 3mm width option) http://s.aliexpress.com/2uER7zIb

After that it's just a little bit of diy-ing that I can show you once you get those items. I use the tape because it's so much easier to use doubled up foams with this method than to try put one foam on another and find out it's too thick and breaks when you try to place it on...

The tape is good quality and if you want to remove it, it's as simple as peeling it off.

You'll also want a small scissors, like about this size if possible



It's for cutting the foam and larger scissors will not work well with the kind of cutting you need to do.

Of course you could just stick to the stock foams and use EQ to adjust but this method is pretty nice if you don't wanna EQ, but want a cleaner sound.


----------



## bavinck

Thanks. Not a big fan of eq. It gets the best of my ocd and I can't leave it alone and just enjoy the music. With the monk plus foams these are pretty good .I will try your suggestion, though.


----------



## seanc6441

bavinck said:


> Do you have a link for those foams? You just cut out the middle to make a doughnut? Thanks m8





bavinck said:


> Thanks. Not a big fan of eq. It gets the best of my ocd and I can't leave it alone and just enjoy the music. With the monk plus foams these are pretty good .I will try your suggestion, though.


Sorry forgot to link these as the outer foam...
http://s.aliexpress.com/mmuABRRV

Gonna cost you another 80c lol


----------



## bavinck

seanc6441 said:


> Sorry forgot to link these as the outer foam...
> http://s.aliexpress.com/mmuABRRV
> 
> Gonna cost you another 80c lol


Such is this hobby. I'm embarrassed how much I spent in the last week. Lots of (totl) buds incoming. The good news it is my first spending in hifi in over a year, so it's like a celebration!


----------



## Lothar101

Thanks for the Links!


----------



## Carrow

I'm having to sell my K's 300 Samsara set as they're way too hungry for my current DAP, PM if any of you fine folks ITT are interested


----------



## seanc6441

bavinck said:


> Such is this hobby. I'm embarrassed how much I spent in the last week. Lots of (totl) buds incoming. The good news it is my first spending in hifi in over a year, so it's like a celebration!


What others did you buy? Or are you talking about IEMs??

Enjoy em anyway, it's nice when you get to hear new gear, I even sell some of my earbuds just to purchase new ones because half the fun is trying out new sounds and expanding your own knowledge of different signatures.


----------



## bavinck

seanc6441 said:


> What others did you buy? Or are you talking about IEMs??
> 
> Enjoy em anyway, it's nice when you get to hear new gear, I even sell some of my earbuds just to purchase new ones because half the fun is trying out new sounds and expanding your own knowledge of different signatures.



Exactly. Can't use iems anymore they are killer on my tinnitus. I got K600, a few Willsound, a Moon Harvester bud and a Blur incoming. Should be fun


----------



## seanc6441

bavinck said:


> Exactly. Can't use iems anymore they are killer on my tinnitus. I got K600, a few Willsound, a Moon Harvester bud and a Blur incoming. Should be fun


Wow nice, should have a nice balance there. Very different signatures. Moon buds look impressive. The cables scream quality might have to try one myself.


----------



## bavinck

seanc6441 said:


> Wow nice, should have a nice balance there. Very different signatures. Moon buds look impressive. The cables scream quality might have to try one myself.


I know I went overboard. Sold some iems to make it happen.

Moon is a super nice guy. Really easy to work with. I ended up getting the nightshade.


----------



## RuFrost

chaiyuta said:


> Last Saturday, I went to the Supersonic X Prakarn Niranam Meeting in Bangkok. This time Mr.Patrabordin, the mastermind of PHRAKAR brand, together with his family came from his hometown so as to join this meeting and meet his fanclub. I heard that there are many international customers has already bought his product over 20+ pairs. Pictures are inside a spoiler below.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1)  Can you please tell us what is the difference between two plugs in sound between 4.4mm Furutech Stainless Steel barrel and 4.4mm Furutech Carbon Fiber barrel?
Are they exactly the same and the difference only in external added carbon element or there are much more difference between them?

2) I wrote in russian community about this and ignorance and stupidity among it is just overwhelming...So I just want to understand the difference in more particularities in order to have arguments for arguing and own education.


----------



## chaiyuta

@RuFrost : 
1) Based on the official website, the conductors of both model are same. The different is only barrel, and the barrel affects to SQ. The 4.4mm Stianless steel barrel plug has relatively shaper tone, significantly narrower sound stage width, a bit deeper bass impact, while the 4.4mm fiber carbon barrel plug is the widest soundstage among all plugs I ever tried.
2) During this meeting, there are 10+ persons who try these demo units (another one is a 4.4mm Nideon Black plug). Some prefer a Nideon plug most, while others have different opinions but nobody doubt whether barrel affects SQ or not after they tried all. "Corfirmation bias", "blind test proof", etc. are nontheless non-sense. Do they ever put an effort (including spend money) to make a real experiment by themselves likes Mr. Patrabordin? I recommended you stop arguing with those guys. They will force you to do this and that and let you on-stage to clarify yourself, moreover they pay you nothing. Do they graduated from Audio-Science Master Degree? Absolutely not. They just use elementary or high-school level of thier science knowledge to judge the things a.k.a. expert wannabe. If they have a "respect other" attitude, they would think why such a big brand company make such kind of thing and reconsider who they are. Unfortunately, I didn't graduated from audio-related courses, therefore I can't explain you in term of science too. Well, It could be said that these demo units are made by my opinion. One day, Mr. Patrabordin ask me how SQ difference between Furutech SS and Furutech CF. I naively answered that both are same conductor, the different is only barrel, basically they should same SQ IMHO. Furthermore I recommended him to buy only the SS model cause it is cheaper than the CF model. However, he decided to buy both model (via me) for making these demo units and answered this curious question. Now participants in this meeting and I clearly got own answer.


----------



## chaiyuta

New DIY earbuds brand are coming that is "Kryptonite" series by Crystalcore Audio. More info is here.



Spoiler: Kryptonite Pictures


----------



## theoutsider

chaiyuta said:


> New DIY earbuds brand are coming that is "Kryptonite" series by Crystalcore Audio. More info is here.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Kryptonite Pictures


It's riveting! 
pun intended.


----------



## subwoof3r

The more I'm listening to my EBX, the more I believe I'm listening to high-end IEMs (my previous FLC8, for reference). 
Incredible level of details and clarity that normally only IEMs should reach, but without compromising sub and bass at all.
Crazy!
TM9 will have a very interesting versus


----------



## bavinck

@c


chaiyuta said:


> New DIY earbuds brand are coming that is "Kryptonite" series by Crystalcore Audio. More info is here.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Kryptonite Pictures



Their finishing on those buds is absolutely gorgeous!


----------



## bavinck

@ClieOS has us all in a tizzy over those TM9 buds lol. They must have made a few sales just from his comments here. @ClieOS do you feel the audio power you wield??? ?


----------



## activatorfly

subwoof3r said:


> The more I'm listening to my EBX, the more I believe I'm listening to high-end IEMs (my previous FLC8, for reference).
> Incredible level of details and clarity that normally only IEMs should reach, but without compromising sub and bass at all.
> Crazy!
> TM9 will have a very interesting versus


I'm close to ordering them...the only reason I delayed originally (& bought TO200 instead) - was because of your QC issues with the first pair!


----------



## subwoof3r

activatorfly said:


> I'm close to ordering them...the only reason I delayed originally (& bought TO200 instead) - was because of your QC issues with the first pair!


Not sure if it was really caused by the driver itself or the cable. I believe more the cable because since I received both new drivers L & R, the R unit has still bad contacts from the connector itself. I should receive my new MMCX cable next week so I will do couple of tests to be sure. I really hope this new cable will fix this little annoying problem. Looks like MMCX connectors are pretty sensitive and fragile on EBX. Not sure if it's a known issue, but for me it's my first ever MMCX earbud, so difficult to judge.
Anyway, you can order safely, as I'm sure that Jim (NiceHCK boss) will help you until you get a working pair. He is one of the most helpful guy I met till now, since I ordered earbuds from China.
NiceHCK is one of those rare earbuds chinese company that will help sort you out of any QC issues. You will just have to be a bit patient and talk simple english with him, but this EBX definitely worth a buy 
I will begin working on my full review once reaching home in few days


----------



## DBaldock9

subwoof3r said:


> The more I'm listening to my EBX, the more I believe I'm listening to high-end IEMs (my previous FLC8, for reference).
> Incredible level of details and clarity that normally only IEMs should reach, but without compromising sub and bass at all.
> Crazy!
> TM9 will have a very interesting versus



I can recommend that you try a set of the 150Ω Blur hALF/hALF - their Bass & details impress me even more than the EBX.


----------



## activatorfly

DBaldock9 said:


> I can recommend that you try a set of the 150Ω Blur hALF/hALF - their Bass & details impress me even more than the EBX.


What is their cost in comparison? - I guess the fit is much more comfortable too....


----------



## activatorfly

subwoof3r said:


> Not sure if it was really caused by the driver itself or the cable. I believe more the cable because since I received both new drivers L & R, the R unit has still bad contacts from the connector itself. I should receive my new MMCX cable next week so I will do couple of tests to be sure. I really hope this new cable will fix this little annoying problem. Looks like MMCX connectors are pretty sensitive and fragile on EBX. Not sure if it's a known issue, but for me it's my first ever MMCX earbud, so difficult to judge.
> Anyway, you can order safely, as I'm sure that Jim (NiceHCK boss) will help you until you get a working pair. He is one of the most helpful guy I met till now, since I ordered earbuds from China.
> NiceHCK is one of those rare earbuds chinese company that will help sort you out of any QC issues. You will just have to be a bit patient and talk simple english with him, but this EBX definitely worth a buy
> I will begin working on my full review once reaching home in few days


Look forward to it....I agree Jim is always great to deal with.


----------



## jogawag (Dec 9, 2018)

If you want cheap but good PK type buds (11.88 usd), I finally found a recommendable hiding buds called "DIY PK2 SR2 PRO 16ohm", so please try this with donuts pad.
"SR" seems to mean SunRise driver, and "SR2" means new version. And "PRO" not shown in the graph means that silver plated cable is used.
This buds has clear treble and deep bass, so really sounds like SWD2Plus!
https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801890526.html




Edit: Graph is added.

Edit;
2018.11.10
Now I recommend *DIY PK2 SR2 tpe 16ohm* more.


----------



## RobinFood

jogawag said:


> If you want cheap but good PK type buds (11.88 usd), I finally found a recommended buds called "DIY PK2 SR2 PRO 16ohm".
> "SR" seems to mean SunRise driver.
> This has clear treble and deep bass, so really sounds like SWD2Plus! Please try this with donuts pad.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801890526.html



Nice, looks like a cheap way to finally try PK shells! That graph makes them look pretty bass-y, have you tried them yourself next to the SWD2Plus?


----------



## ClieOS

bavinck said:


> @ClieOS has us all in a tizzy over those TM9 buds lol. They must have made a few sales just from his comments here. @ClieOS do you feel the audio power you wield??? ?



With great power comes great responsibility


----------



## jogawag

RobinFood said:


> Nice, looks like a cheap way to finally try PK shells! That graph makes them look pretty bass-y, have you tried them yourself next to the SWD2Plus?


Of course, I tried them.


----------



## mbwilson111

jogawag said:


> Of course, I tried them.



Mine will be on the way soon


----------



## jogawag (Aug 18, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Mine will be on the way soon


If you try it, please tell me your impressions.
Burn-in seems to need about 24 hours.

Edit:
*Burn-in seems to need over 50 hours.*


----------



## mbwilson111

jogawag said:


> If you try it, please tell me your impressions.
> Burn-in seems to need about 24 hours.



My impressions are either I like them or I don't   I don't do graphs or a/b comparisons or detailed impressions.  My biggest test is if I get lost in the music and hours or albums go by...

You know I will like them


----------



## chaiyuta

jogawag said:


> If you want cheap but good PK type buds (11.88 usd), I finally found a recommendable hiding buds called "DIY PK2 SR2 PRO 16ohm", so please try this with donuts pad.
> "SR" seems to mean SunRise driver, and "SR2" means new version. And "PRO" not shown in the graph means that silver plated cable is used.
> This buds has clear treble and deep bass, so really sounds like SWD2Plus!
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801890526.html





jogawag said:


> Of course, I tried them.



Nice info~. In feedback tab, I see many Thai customer feedbacks there. Perhaps I could try one of someone else.


----------



## Spider fan

jogawag said:


> If you want cheap but good PK type buds (11.88 usd), I finally found a recommendable hiding buds called "DIY PK2 SR2 PRO 16ohm", so please try this with donuts pad.
> "SR" seems to mean SunRise driver, and "SR2" means new version. And "PRO" not shown in the graph means that silver plated cable is used.
> This buds has clear treble and deep bass, so really sounds like SWD2Plus!
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801890526.html


Thanks for letting everyone know.  I just ordered.  It is my first item in awhile.  I hope the cable isn't stiff.  The 2 things I am tired of are the MX500 shell and stiff cables.  I have too many of each.  I am glad to get another PK2 shell.  Anyways, seem like a good value especially if recommended by you.  From my time hear on Head-fi, I know you know your stuff.


----------



## chinmie

jogawag said:


> If you want cheap but good PK type buds (11.88 usd), I finally found a recommendable hiding buds called "DIY PK2 SR2 PRO 16ohm", so please try this with donuts pad.
> "SR" seems to mean SunRise driver, and "SR2" means new version. And "PRO" not shown in the graph means that silver plated cable is used.
> This buds has clear treble and deep bass, so really sounds like SWD2Plus!
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801890526.html



thanks for the info! how similar are they? also what are the difference between them?


----------



## jogawag

Spider fan said:


> Thanks for letting everyone know.  I just ordered.  It is my first item in awhile.  I hope the cable isn't stiff.  The 2 things I am tired of are the MX500 shell and stiff cables.  I have too many of each.  I am glad to get another PK2 shell.  Anyways, seem like a good value especially if recommended by you.  From my time hear on Head-fi, I know you know your stuff.


Unfortunately it is a stiff cable. . .


----------



## Spider fan

jogawag said:


> Unfortunately it is a stiff cable. . .


That is Ok. They are inexpensive and sounds like a good value still.   It cant be anywhere near as bad as my Zen black or Red Demun.  I love their sound but their cables drive me nuts.


----------



## jogawag (Aug 17, 2018)

chinmie said:


> thanks for the info! how similar are they? also what are the difference between them?


They are similar about the overall sound trend, especially with clear treble and deep bass.
However, the delicacy of treble is somewhat inferior, and the sound stage is a little narrow.
Well, the price is more than 30 times different. . .


----------



## jogawag (Aug 18, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> Nice info~. In feedback tab, I see many Thai customer feedbacks there. Perhaps I could try one of someone else.


I expect their feedbacks.
Perhaps my feedback might be the case of my personal thought. . .


----------



## DBaldock9

activatorfly said:


> What is their cost in comparison? - I guess the fit is much more comfortable too....



The EBX is ~60% the price of the custom Blur hALF/hALF.
Since I always wear my earbuds with the cable over the ear, the Blur (MX500 shell), and the EBX (custom metal shell), are both comfortable to wear.
The MX500 shell is shallower than the EBX, so if you're lying down, the Blur may be more comfortable.


----------



## jogawag (Dec 9, 2018)

jogawag said:


> I expect their feedbacks.
> Unfortunately my feedback may be the case of my personal thought. . .



*Very sorry!
If you do Burn-in of "DIY PK2 SR2 PRO 16ohm" more than 30 hours, the outline of the sound became to be blurred.
This is useless!
It became the sound of 1 usd earbuds…
I will continue Burn-in a little more, but I can not expect too much.
Again, very sorry!
If you like a pretty sweet sound, you can use it, but it is different from the sound of SWD2Plus.
*
Edit:
*Burn-in seems to need over 50 hours.
*
Edit;
2018.11.10
Now I recommend *DIY PK2 SR2 tpe 16ohm* more.


----------



## knudsen

jogawag said:


> *Very sorry!
> If you do Burn-in of "DIY PK2 SR2 PRO 16ohm" more than 30 hours, the outline of the sound became to be blurred.
> This is useless!
> It became the sound of 1 usd earbuds…
> ...


Many high end earbuds gets worse during burn-in, then better later on. The people behind specifically state that. You should never say never


----------



## knudsen

DBaldock9 said:


> The EBX is ~60% the price of the custom Blur hALF/hALF.
> Since I always wear my earbuds with the cable over the ear, the Blur (MX500 shell), and the EBX (custom metal shell), are both comfortable to wear.
> The MX500 shell is shallower than the EBX, so if you're lying down, the Blur may be more comfortable.


Do you know what hALF/hALF is referring to? How is the bass compared to the K500? Thanks


----------



## seanc6441

jogawag said:


> *Very sorry!
> If you do Burn-in of "DIY PK2 SR2 PRO 16ohm" more than 30 hours, the outline of the sound became to be blurred.
> This is useless!
> It became the sound of 1 usd earbuds…
> ...


Keep burning and see if it regains it's original character, nothing to lose and then you can inform us


----------



## chaiyuta

Today I joined The Iconic Music Grand Opening event. Long story short, omit all unrelated topics, V-Friend opened a booth in this event and started official launching his new earbuds work piece so called "V-Swan". Pictures are in spoiler.



Spoiler: 20180818 Iconic Music Grand Opening : V-Friend V-Swan






 
Speech Start!



 
V-Friend Booth



 
V-Friend Products Line-up



 
The legendary discontinued V-Friend products. Left one is V-Diamond and Right one is V-Black Diamond. I personally prefers V-Black Diamond while many prefers V-Diamond.



 
New product "V-Swan".



 
V-Swan back housing



 
V-Swan front cover looks alike Panda's



 
Listening with PCM-D1. It has pretty balanced sound tuning and tend to vocal-centric sound-sig. Easy Listening.



 
Bought one for friend. End~



More pictures about this event is Here.


----------



## privateKIMI

Has anyone gotten their hands on the Bejo V2
I currently am a proud owner of the first iteration for Bejo but soon it'll be sold off since someone was interested in it then found out they released the V2.

Almost made the purchase but I don't want to limit my choice since I've also been eyeing for the VUNBUD and the Willsound PK32.


----------



## jogawag (Dec 9, 2018)

knudsen said:


> Many high end earbuds gets worse during burn-in, then better later on. The people behind specifically state that. You should never say never


*Everyone, I am sorry to cause you worry.
When burning in "DIY PK2 SR2 PRO 16 ohm" for over 40 hours, the sound gradually returned to its original state and stabilized.
I plan to continue burning in for up to 50 hours,  I have come to expect.
Again, everyone, I am sorry to cause you worry.
*
Edit;
2018.11.10
Now I recommend *DIY PK2 SR2 tpe 16ohm* more.


----------



## fairx (Aug 18, 2018)

jogawag said:


> If you want cheap but good PK type buds (11.88 usd), I finally found a recommendable hiding buds called "DIY PK2 SR2 PRO 16ohm", so please try this with donuts pad.
> "SR" seems to mean SunRise driver, and "SR2" means new version. And "PRO" not shown in the graph means that silver plated cable is used.
> This buds has clear treble and deep bass, so really sounds like SWD2Plus!
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801890526.html


So the recommended one is 16 ohm? How about the other 32 and 150? Kinda curious myself. And found another seller with red cable option, same description.
http://s.aliexpress.com/2Y3MVJbE?fromSns

Ughh.. Read some report on EA fb pages...

I'll wait for more burn report.


----------



## seanc6441

jogawag said:


> *Everyone, I am sorry to cause you worry.
> When burning in "DIY PK2 SR2 PRO 16 ohm" for over 40 hours, the sound gradually returned to its original state and stabilized.
> I plan to continue burning in for up to 50 hours,  I have come to expect.
> Again, everyone, I am sorry to cause you worry.*


Hey what’s your opinion on the sub bass and mid bass on these? Compared to the Shozy BK is it less or more quantity in sub bass and mid bass?

The BK is the only earbud with acceptable bass quantity in a Pk shell for me but could use more sub bass...


----------



## jogawag (Aug 19, 2018)

fairx said:


> So the recommended one is 16 ohm? How about the other 32 and 150? Kinda curious myself. And found another seller with red cable option, same description.
> http://s.aliexpress.com/2Y3MVJbE?fromSns
> 
> Ughh.. Read some report on EA fb pages...
> ...



About impedance, the seller said that "150ohms is vocal,32ohms has some bass,but not very much".
I like the low impedance PK type buds like SWD2+, Shozy and Docomo for using also on smartphones, only so I recommended a 16 ohm version.

About link, perhaps this seller sells same buds  (copper TPE cable version) below.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801646835.html

About burn-in, next time I want to write successfull burn report...

>> Ughh.. Read some report on EA fb pages.
Please report about what you read in some report on EA fb pages.


----------



## subwoof3r

subwoof3r said:


> Not sure if it was really caused by the driver itself or the cable. I believe more the cable because since I received both new drivers L & R, the R unit has still bad contacts from the connector itself.


I'm back to home and did a quick test : I confirm that the problem is definitely not from the cable but the Right driver itself.
_(if it can help)_


----------



## Spider fan

jogawag said:


> About impedance, the seller said that "150ohms is vocal,32ohms has some bass,but not very much".
> I like the low impedance PK type buds like SWD2+, Shozy and Docomo for using also on smartphones, only so I recommended a 16 ohm version.
> 
> About link, perhaps this seller sells same buds  (copper TPE cable version) below.
> ...


It looks like he sold 19 of them since your post after not selling any for the last 11 days.


----------



## jogawag

Spider fan said:


> It looks like he sold 19 of them since your post after not selling any for the last 11 days.


When the seller sold 3 of them since my post, he said "don't worry,has many stock". Is there still stock left?


----------



## Spider fan

jogawag said:


> When the seller sold 3 of them since my post, he said "don't worry,has many stock". Is there still stock left?


Yah, he is probably shocked.  It shows the power of this thread and Head-fi.


----------



## seanc6441

Think I’ll buy the TPE-Rubber cable version and recable if I feel it’s good enough. I like how it has more bass than the cygnus and docomo stock but not more bloated low mids and still retains most of the high’s.

Plus it’s like $12.


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> Think I’ll buy the TPE-Rubber cable version and recable if I feel it’s good enough. I like how it has more bass than the cygnus and docomo stock but not more bloated low mids and still retains most of the high’s.
> 
> Plus it’s like $12.



Which version is that (16 ohm, 32 ohm etc.? I wanna jump on the bandwagon as well


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 18, 2018)

DAndrew said:


> Which version is that (16 ohm, 32 ohm etc.? I wanna jump on the bandwagon as well


16 ohm SR2 driver, if it’s the same as jogawags measured above it has better sub bass extension and more linear mids, but less ‘sparkle’ up top than both cygnus and docomo stock. I know how the cygnus sounds and I’ll take the bass response of this sr2 16 ohm over it, plus the cygnus has good sparkle and a slightly brighter treble so this driver probably has a smoother sound with more neutral treble. Might be good for thin foams I’d imagine.

But it’s $12 and the driver is all that matters if you plan on tuning it 

If the runner cable is soft I prefer this cable than cheap braid or plastic cables anyway because they are usually much softer like the monk plus cable.


----------



## Spider fan (Aug 18, 2018)

DAndrew said:


> Which version is that (16 ohm, 32 ohm etc.? I wanna jump on the bandwagon as well


3 Sennheiser HD540 Reference II users posting in arow on the earbud thread.


----------



## seanc6441

Spider fan said:


> 3 Sennheiser HD540 Reference II users posting in arow on the earbud thread.


lol yes, funny that. Good headphone to judge midrange timbre off of


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> 16 ohm SR2 driver, if it’s the same as jogawags measured above it has better sub bass extension and more linear mids, but less ‘sparkle’ up top than both cygnus and docomo stock. I know how the cygnus sounds and I’ll take the bass response of this sr2 16 ohm over it, plus the cygnus has good sparkle and a slightly brighter treble so this driver probably has a smoother sound with more neutral treble. Might be good for thin foams I’d imagine.
> 
> But it’s $12 and the driver is all that matters if you plan on tuning it
> 
> If the runner cable is soft I prefer this cable than cheap braid or plastic cables anyway because they are usually much softer like the monk plus cable.



I'll go for the red one, I dont have anything red yet haha

I actually wanna start making my own earbuds and have gathered most of the things I need in my shopping cart


----------



## DAndrew

Spider fan said:


> 3 Sennheiser HD540 Reference II users posting in arow on the earbud thread.



You also have the Sennheiser HD560 Ovation II, how is it? iirc its supposed to be heavier on the bass side of things


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> lol yes, funny that. Good headphone to judge midrange timbre off of



_Good headphone 
_
You mean the best?


----------



## seanc6441

DAndrew said:


> _Good headphone
> _
> You mean the best?


Mine has flaws but perfect condition one would be very nice, the 540 gold is the best I’d imagine with original pads. Now that’s a headphone I want to own badly )


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> Mine has flaws but perfect condition one would be very nice, the 540 gold is the best I’d imagine with original pads. Now that’s a headphone I want to own badly )



What flaws? I'm lucky mine is in mint condition but the foam in the pads were like 80%~ and I cant have none of that haha so I had the original velour pads reconditioned with new NOS foam.


----------



## Spider fan (Aug 18, 2018)

DAndrew said:


> You also have the Sennheiser HD560 Ovation II, how is it? iirc its supposed to be heavier on the bass side of things


The imaging/staging on the HD540 just sounds more accurate than the rest. I dont think I have even  hardly touched any of my other headphones since I got them.  I got them last out all the Sennheiser stuff I have and it won me over.  It probably doesn't help that we have the Head-fi thread to help brain wash us on them too lol.  I'll use my HD580s for streaming movies since they are bassier than the HD540s but that about it.  Anyways, we better get back on topic before someone gets annoyed.  I am sorry I led us astray for a few minutes.


----------



## activatorfly

subwoof3r said:


> I'm back to home and did a quick test : I confirm that the problem is definitely not from the cable but the Right driver itself.
> _(if it can help)_


So can you confirm that it's a quality issue with the driver itself? - not too concerned about the cable - as I'm on the verge of ordering a pair from Jim.


----------



## seanc6441

DAndrew said:


> What flaws? I'm lucky mine is in mint condition but the foam in the pads were like 80%~ and I cant have none of that haha so I had the original velour pads reconditioned with new NOS foam.


There’s a nasty treble spike, I’m like treble but this is severe... It’s quite harsh sounding on most tracks possibly because of this spike. Bass is ok but lacks some extension (might be normal idk)

my pads are all velour and seem stock but i was told the hybrid pads from some 540 models were the best, think its a leather and cloth/fabric hybrid, some have the fabric in white and others black.


----------



## DAndrew

Spider fan said:


> The imaging/staging on the HD540 just sounds more accurate than the rest. I dont think I have even  hardly touched any of my other headphones since I got them.  I got them last out all the Sennheiser stuff I have and it won me over.  It probably doesn't help that we have the Head-fi thread to help brain wash us on them too lol.  I'll use my HD580s for streaming movies since they are bassier than the HD540s but that about it.



Yeah, its the best out of the old Senns , too bad mint pairs go for ridiculous prices


----------



## seanc6441

Spider fan said:


> The imaging/staging on the HD540 just sounds more accurate than the rest. I dont think I have even  hardly touched any of my other headphones since I got them.  I got them last out all the Sennheiser stuff I have and it won me over.  It probably doesn't help that we have the Head-fi thread to help brain wash us on them too lol.  I'll use my HD580s for streaming movies since they are bassier than the HD540s but that about it.  Anyways, we better get back on topic before someone gets annoyed.  I am sorry I led us astray for a few minutes.


No worries, earbuds earbuds earbuds. Fixed


----------



## subwoof3r (Aug 18, 2018)

activatorfly said:


> So can you confirm that it's a quality issue with the driver itself? - not too concerned about the cable - as I'm on the verge of ordering a pair from Jim.


Yup, clearly, it was a defective driver.
Cable also has a problem (bad contacts to "R" side sometimes), but it is less major to me anyway since I ordered a new MMCX cable from Jim (not the original one that came with EBX). Too bad because I really like EBX original cable (a mix of 50/50 copper and silver). My review will be made with the original cable anyway.


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> There’s a nasty treble spike, I’m like treble but this is severe... It’s quite harsh sounding on most tracks possibly because of this spike. Bass is ok but lacks some extension (might be normal idk)
> 
> my pads are all velour and seem stock but i was told the hybrid pads from some 540 models were the best, think its a leather and cloth/fabric hybrid, some have the fabric in white and others black.



To be fair their were built for tube amps, so you need something dark to drive them. I was told to opposite from someone who tried them, that the velour is better ( and the original pad, "same" as the velour in the hd800 ) plus the leather and cloth pads are all ****ed, the only mint one I saw was on a ref I, pick up only in germany...


----------



## Makahl

Guys, today I grabbed the EMX500 out of the drawer to compare against my recabled Vido and testing bass there's a rattling sound:



I've been trying to blow it, pressing its front cover but apparently, it's not being enough to fix it. Is there any other tip that I'm missing?


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 18, 2018)

EDIT: Seller sent another message saying it IS infact the same driver, just a miscommunication.

Think I’ll try it out...


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> EDIT: Seller sent another message saying it IS infact the same driver, just a miscommunication.
> 
> Think I’ll try it out...



So in the end which one is the good one lol , which did jogawag get?


----------



## bavinck

I must say I am enjoying the shozy bk very much, with the monk plus foams. Seems pretty near neutral, with a beautiful mid range. I could hope for a little more splash on top but otherwise it is great. How far off from current totl bud is the shozy?


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 18, 2018)

bavinck said:


> I must say I am enjoying the shozy bk very much, with the monk plus foams. Seems pretty near neutral, with a beautiful mid range. I could hope for a little more splash on top but otherwise it is great. How far off from current totl bud is the shozy?


The Shozy bk is nice, I used to absolutely love it and i do still like many aspects of its sound like the midrange texture and airy quality, but othe TOTL buds have showed me that it is lacking in a few areas.

- Bass extension is only modest, and as you say a little wholly due to the upper bass-lower mid being quite emphasised.

- Soundstage is a little narrow and lacks depth comared to the other TOTL buds I’ve heard. Although stereo separation is very good.

Other factors like overall sound sig I cannot really judge because that’s more a subjective opinion than something to rate.

It’s a very good earbud for certain genres namely acoustic vocals and some instrumentals because it has a very good midrange quality and timbre if you like a more honest natural tonality without any harsh peaks or brightness but still want enough detail and air.

I’d say its TOTL for mid centric music but is outclassed on anything requiring more bass and treble or a more spacious soundstage.


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 18, 2018)

DAndrew said:


> So in the end which one is the good one lol , which did jogawag get?


of the links jogawag posted earlier, he has the OFC/Silver braid cable PK SR2 16ohm and I will have the other link he posted with the ‘TPE’ cable PK SR2 16ohm found here (comes in white or black)

http://s.aliexpress.com/36BrA7Z3

same driver just different cables and a $1 price difference for said cable.


----------



## bavinck

@seanc6441 yes that is what I am hearing too. Something is almost veiled to me in the upper registers (almost, not quite) but otherwise pretty good.


----------



## DBaldock9

knudsen said:


> Do you know what hALF/hALF is referring to? How is the bass compared to the K500? Thanks



I've not seen any specific explanation, for the meaning of the name *hALF/hALF*.
I do have the K's 500, and can say that the Blur hALF/hALF and the EBX both have more low Bass.
Even the Svara-L (115Ω) has _more_ Bass than the K's 500 - but the K's, Blur, and EBX all seem to have clearer and more detailed Bass than the Svara-L.


----------



## bavinck

DBaldock9 said:


> I've not seen any specific explanation, for the meaning of the name *hALF/hALF*.
> I do have the K's 500, and can say that the Blur hALF/hALF and the EBX both have more low Bass.
> Even the Svara-L (115Ω) has _more_ Bass than the K's 500 - but the K's, Blur, and EBX all seem to have clearer and more detailed Bass than the Svara-L.


H/H meaning half occ copper and half pure silver


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 18, 2018)

bavinck said:


> @seanc6441 yes that is what I am hearing too. Something is almost veiled to me in the upper registers (almost, not quite) but otherwise pretty good.


it’s definitely slightly-moderately under neutral in parts of the upper mids and treble, but has a few bumps in the lower and upper treble give air. Honestly I think shozy was trying to create a darker-neutral signature but maintain air and detail. It’s one of the fullest sounding earbuds I own that I wouldn’t exactly consider warm.

Although with the thin aliexpress foams it’s somewhat more balanced but lacks some bass impact and depth to the soundstage, that’s why I was using mod foams.

Personally I think a comprise between the cygnus signature and bk signature would’ve been amazing. The cygnus has such a sweet treble response and cleaner mids, but less overall detail, more bloated mid bass and slightly less precise imaging.

The BK is more clinical and dry but it’s technicality is slightly better. Both I think are overpriced though. If the Cygnus was $60 and the BK $120 they would be rightly placed IMO. But then again the prices are getting a little crazy on some earbuds so you need to wait for sales or lookout for the best value at each price  point now.


----------



## McCol

@seanc6441  my knowledge of earbuds is very limited (2 pairs lol).  Despite this I'm finding the sub bass on the Moon Harvester Nightshade to be something quite special.  There's almost a nice physical sensation to the presentation from this earbud, it doesn't lack in the mids and highs either.  Some really nice details and quite a wide soundstage.  Not sure of the size though as this is all new to me still.


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 18, 2018)

McCol said:


> @seanc6441  my knowledge of earbuds is very limited (2 pairs lol).  Despite this I'm finding the sub bass on the Moon Harvester Nightshade to be something quite special.  There's almost a nice physical sensation to the presentation from this earbud, it doesn't lack in the mids and highs either.  Some really nice details and quite a wide soundstage.  Not sure of the size though as this is all new to me still.


All my earbuds sound unique to be honest and most of them I enjoy for different music. Glad you’re enjoying them that’s the main thing, soundstage and imaging is my favourite aspect of earbuds really, the good ones really do an excellent job of portraying an open space, precision and layering.

I’m always looking for the best extension because that’s where buds struggle at times but few of them can do it well. Then to combine that with an ideal signature and a good 3D soundstage and accurate imaging  .... Do I ask too much? I know it’s possible I just need to keep looking ^^


----------



## McCol

seanc6441 said:


> All my earbuds sound unique to be honest and most of them I enjoy for different music. Glad you’re enjoying them that’s the main thing, soundstage and imaging is my favourite aspect of earbuds really, the good ones really do an excellent job of portraying an open space, precision and layering.
> 
> I’m always looking for the best extension because that’s where buds struggle at times but few of them can do it well. Then to combine that with an ideal signature and a good 3D soundstage and accurate imaging  .... Do I ask too much? I know it’s possible I just need to keep looking ^^



The Nightshade might be worth you having a wee gander at.  Compared to the ToneKing 400s, it has more bass presence and depth.


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 18, 2018)

McCol said:


> The Nightshade might be worth you having a wee gander at.  Compared to the ToneKing 400s, it has more bass presence and depth.


Yes, but i consider the TO400s bass light in stock tuning. I suspect your night shade is more neutral bass then. Maybe even on the bassy side, my K's Ling is the only earbud I own with serious sub bass. I have other bassy earbuds but the Ling extends further. I can hear (*feel more like) it rumble at 20hz at medium-loud volume. It has a satisfying thump, but it needs to be toned down in the mid bass to use the full foams with it, or else it's a bit overwhelming.

But also the treble response is well extended so I regard it's driver highly. But it's lack of back porting is questionable to me, feels like it's lacking some openess at times because of its semi closed nature.

It can sound quite intense at times...


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 18, 2018)

I had an absolutely MAD idea to open up the shell with a heat gun and drill out a port in the back of the brass housing, because I need to 'fix' these wonderful earbuds... But i keep remembering how expensive they are and I get scared lol...

And i know they were tuned to be without a back vent but I was gonna compensate by narrowing the port on the stem part to keep the air outflow relatively equal to before and drill the smallest port/ports possible to minimize the difference...

Again absolutely bonkers here xD


----------



## jogawag (Dec 9, 2018)

I burned in *"DIY PK2 SR2 PRO 16 ohms" over 50 hours*, so the outline of the sound became clearer graduately again from the blurred sound at 30 hours.

This buds and *SWD2+* are similar in the overall sound trend, especially in the deep bass. However, the delicacy of this buds' treble is slightly inferior to SWD2+.
If I burn in this buds more, I am imagine that the treble of this buds may become delicate and this buds may sound like SWD2+ more.

However, now I feel like that this buds is rather *"the mix of Shozy BK and Shozy Cygnus" *(reflected the good points of the sound of the each buds) than SWD2+.
But even so this buds may be good enough as 11.88 usd cost.




Edit;
2018.11.10
Now I recommend *DIY PK2 SR2 tpe 16ohm* more.


----------



## fairx

jogawag said:


> About impedance, the seller said that "150ohms is vocal,32ohms has some bass,but not very much".
> I like the low impedance PK type buds like SWD2+, Shozy and Docomo for using also on smartphones, only so I recommended a 16 ohm version.
> 
> About link, perhaps this seller sells same buds  (copper TPE cable version) below.
> ...



Thanks. 

What I read in EA fb pages regarding the 150ohms version and that guy mention warning, don't buy. IIRC. But that's just one person though.


----------



## mochill

TM9 in new York, will be getting it next week by Tuesday I hope


----------



## seanc6441

jogawag said:


> I burned in *"DIY PK2 SR2 PRO 16 ohms" over 50 hours*, so the outline of the sound became clearer graduately again from the blurred sound at 30 hours.
> 
> This buds and *SWD2+* are similar in the overall sound trend, especially in the deep bass. However, the delicacy of this buds' treble is slightly inferior to SWD2+.
> If I burn in this buds more, I am imagine that the treble of this buds may become delicate and this buds may sound like SWD2+ more.
> ...


Wow nice I was saying I wanted a mix of those two 

Cannot wait to hear mine and burn it in!


----------



## golov17

mochill said:


> TM9 in new York, will be getting it next week by Tuesday I hope


----------



## mochill

I'm a believer in blox from the beginning


----------



## bavinck

golov17 said:


>


It's headfi, of course it's the hype train!


----------



## jogawag (Aug 19, 2018)

mochill said:


> I'm a believer in blox from the beginning


I'm not a believer of blox at all, so I have sold B160 that I do not like.
But my TM9 will be delivered on Monday.


----------



## knudsen

Will be excellent with some more impressions of the TM9. I need a good bass for my genres, so since ClieOS described it as "surely not a bass heavy earphone" I asked Blox if it could "take some eq in the bass" (thas was the exact question). The response was

"TM9 does not have big bass and I do not recommend to EQ bass up too much
due to its diaphragm is not very thick and hard."

Just a warning if anyone is expecting to eq the hell out of it. Personally I've concluded atm that it probably does'nt have enough bass to be my primary earbud, but I am still very interested in it for niche genres (for me).


----------



## F900EX

TM9?  is this a new release from Blox?


----------



## jogawag

F900EX said:


> TM9?  is this a new release from Blox?


Yes.


----------



## rahmish

Does anyone know what model of Sony's it is? Thanks in advance


----------



## F900EX

jogawag said:


> Yes.



Thanks, I searched back and could not find anything about them, when can you purchase them? or are they already sold out?  I see nothing mentioned on the blox website (as usual)


----------



## bavinck

F900EX said:


> Thanks, I searched back and could not find anything about them, when can you purchase them? or are they already sold out?  I see nothing mentioned on the blox website (as usual)


Within the last couple weeks there are been impressions posted and an email address to order  Keep looking, you'll find it


----------



## rkw

F900EX said:


> Thanks, I searched back and could not find anything about them


Use the search function for "blox" and click on "Search this thread only".  Click on "Search again". Go to the bottom and select "Order by: Most Recent".
Try this: https://www.head-fi.org/search/1/?q=blox&t=post&o=date&c[thread]=441400


----------



## groucho69 (Aug 20, 2018)

mochill said:


> I'm a believer in blox from the beginning





Spoiler


----------



## bhima

So I've come late to the earbud party--bought some VE Monk+ on Amazon for $10 shipped and am pretty blown away by their sound. Wanted to get more reviews on higher end models, but it looks like Clie's original post got messed up (likely do to the website make-over). Is there actual reviews to all those earbuds on the front page of this post somewhere?


----------



## kvik (Aug 19, 2018)

Deleted


----------



## Makahl

Makahl said:


> Guys, today I grabbed the EMX500 out of the drawer to compare against my recabled Vido and testing bass there's a rattling sound:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been trying to blow it, pressing its front cover but apparently, it's not being enough to fix it. Is there any other tip that I'm missing?




Well, I just managed to get it worse today with a straw, lol rip. Does anyone know if there's some store that sells a unique driver of EMX500? If that's something between $2-5 might worth a try. 

Also, I do remember reading some time ago a new version of EMX500 with QC fixed and a new cable, is it called EMX500S? Is the tuning the same?


----------



## HungryPanda

I prefer the EMX500s over the EMX500, just sounds better


----------



## Makahl

Makahl said:


> Well, I just managed to get it worse today with a straw, lol rip. Does anyone know if there's some store that sells a unique driver of EMX500? If that's something between $2-5 might worth a try.
> 
> Also, I do remember reading some time ago a new version of EMX500 with QC fixed and a new cable, is it called EMX500S? Is the tuning the same?



On a side note, I've pm'd the seller (CKLewis Audio Store) telling the problem and kindly he'll send another driver! Uf.. I wasn't expecting for that. 



>





HungryPanda said:


> I prefer the EMX500s over the EMX500, just sounds better



That sounds good! I'll need to try it now!


----------



## jogawag (Aug 19, 2018)

knudsen said:


> Will be excellent with some more impressions of the TM9. I need a good bass for my genres, so since ClieOS described it as "surely not a bass heavy earphone" I asked Blox if it could "take some eq in the bass" (thas was the exact question). The response was
> 
> "TM9 does not have big bass and I do not recommend to EQ bass up too much
> due to its diaphragm is not very thick and hard."
> ...



Blox TM9 just I received.
The bass sounds sufficient even just after putting out the box. ???
Well I am not a Bass Head, though.


----------



## F900EX

rkw said:


> Use the search function for "blox" and click on "Search this thread only".  Click on "Search again". Go to the bottom and select "Order by: Most Recent".
> Try this: https://www.head-fi.org/search/1/?q=blox&t=post&o=date&c[thread]=441400




Thank you and found the email address, I know its subjective but $279? is the sound worth it? what happened to the $25 M2C deals lol ... IMO probably the best bargain blox made vs cost.


----------



## Danneq

F900EX said:


> Thank you and found the email address, I know its subjective but $279? is the sound worth it? what happened to the $25 M2C deals lol ... IMO probably the best bargain blox made vs cost.



Well, the former Blox flagship TM7 was $149 when it was sold 6 years ago. Blox has released lower tier earbuds as well, but this is a TOTL earbud. They might release lower tier earbuds again but I find their TOTL earbuds to be most interesting.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Wong Kuan Wae's *Blur hALF/hALF 32ohm*

Tasty Bass While Keeping Much of the Detail.






--


----------



## bavinck

jogawag said:


> Blox TM9 just I received.
> The bass sounds sufficient even just after putting out the box. ???
> Well I am not a Bass Head, though.


Beautiful cable. Can't wait for mine!


----------



## DAndrew

Saw something new ( and ordered it ) , VE Odyssey , a $10 USD portable amp/dac ( dongle ) https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=32 . Really curious how this sounds


----------



## bavinck

DAndrew said:


> Saw something new ( and ordered it ) , VE Odyssey , a $10 USD portable amp/dac ( dongle ) https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=32 . Really curious how this sounds


Looks interesting  Blurb on that page shows the dude has a bit of an attitude - kind of like that


----------



## KevDzn

That's a surprise..... Released a dac dongle to make the monk+ sounds better at a very reasonable price. Now that's real dedication.
This should be a no-brainer purchase for all monk+ owners. Thumbs up for Lee.


----------



## DAndrew

bavinck said:


> Looks interesting  Blurb on that page shows the dude has a bit of an attitude - kind of like that



Thats pretty much how lee talks always


----------



## bonson

jogawag said:


> Blox TM9 just I received.
> The bass sounds sufficient even just after putting out the box. ???
> Well I am not a Bass Head, though.


Nice presentation but the strain relief just before the plug seems to be very short, i hope it won't be too fragile. But Blox is not a new earbuds maker ...
Wrong timing for me as i have recently purchased the SWD2+ on Massdrop and won't have the funds for the TM9 that i have been waiting for such a long time.
I hope quantity is not too limited.


----------



## chinmie

jogawag said:


> Blox TM9 just I received.
> The bass sounds sufficient even just after putting out the box. ???
> Well I am not a Bass Head, though.



waiting for your head 2 head impression to the SWD2+


----------



## dhruvmeena96

How does niceHCK diy graphene sounds to all of you guys..I am thinking of buying it


----------



## dhruvmeena96

How does niceHCK diy graphene sounds to all of you guys..I am thinking of buying it


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> waiting for your head 2 head impression to the SWD2+



Battle of the soundstages?


dhruvmeena96 said:


> How does niceHCK diy graphene sounds to all of you guys..I am thinking of buying it


Some love it some don't, I didn't love my white plastic cover version but I think the metal grille one looks interesting and I think that one is now the cover used by the nicehck version.

There's a sale on it in a few days so it's a good time to buy


----------



## HungryPanda

I Prefer the NiceHCK graphene over the newer Ollivan one


----------



## jogawag (Aug 21, 2018)

chinmie said:


> waiting for your head 2 head impression to the SWD2+



This is my very short impression.

The sound quality of TM9 is characterized by orthodox and flat sound and balanced as a whole (although it has not been burned enough in yet), and buds the sound stage is also sufficiently wide 3-D. So with this buds you can enjoy music of most genres with confidence.
However, IMHO, I think that some people may feel this buds too orthodox and being lack of fun a bit.

SWD 2 + have the advantage that it corresponds to the balance feature, and it also corresponds to the unbalance by the conversion adapter.
The sound quality is characterized by somewhat sharp treble and enough sub bass (surprisingly as PK type), and the sound stage is sufficiently wide 3-D so you can listen to music like ROCK / POPS happily with this buds.
However, IMHO, I think that some people may feel this buds tired of ears a little after using for a long time.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

So can anybody tell me an eabud with deep wide soundstage under 20bucks


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 20, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> So can anybody tell me an eabud with deep wide soundstage under 20bucks


Emx500

Or maybe the S version but I've only heard the original.


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Aug 20, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Emx500
> 
> Or maybe the S version but I've only heard the original.


I mean, I want a huge soundstage which is unrivalled under 20bucks and if possible even over its price


----------



## bavinck

OK so k's K600 are a pretty nice earbud. Less shouty than shozy bk so better for poorly mastered recordings and thick guitar work. Amped they sound very nice, a lot like my hd650 actually.


----------



## seanc6441

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I mean, I want a huge soundstage which is unrivalled under 20bucks and if possible even over its price



It's the biggest I heard in the budget range, maybe there's biggers ones I have not heard but I can't say.


----------



## HungryPanda

bavinck said:


> OK so k's K600 are a pretty nice earbud. Less shouty than shozy bk so better for poorly mastered recordings and thick guitar work. Amped they sound very nice, a lot like my hd650 actually.


That's exactly what I feel about them, first time I listened to them I thought of my HD650. They are always on my desk now


----------



## jogawag (Aug 20, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I mean, I want a huge soundstage which is unrivalled under 20bucks and if possible even over its price


How about "Aurvana Air(remove hooks)" which have a very huge soundstage? Perhaps about 50 usd...


----------



## chinmie

jogawag said:


> This is my very short impression.
> 
> The sound quality of TM9 is characterized by neat and flat sound and balanced as a whole (although it has not been burned enough in yet), and buds the sound stage is also sufficiently wide 3-D. So with this buds you can enjoy music of most genres with confidence.
> However, IMHO, I think that some people may feel this buds too orthodox and being lack of fun.
> ...



thank you 
so soundstage-wise, they are about the same level? which one have better depth? judging from your description, i think i would prefer the SWD2+ more. the balanced connector versatility is also a great plus


----------



## dhruvmeena96

jogawag said:


> How about "Aurvana Air(remove hook)"? Perhaps about 50 usd...


I have rose mojito and shozy BK and I need something bigger in stage...because my cousin got a mx760 diy from China and he is not telling model name to me. That sounded way better than my mojito plus comfortable. So after reading the review of NiceHCK graphene black metal model from slappypete, I think it is the niceHCK graphene.

So I want something better than that plus under 20$.

I have svara L too


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## chinmie

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I have rose mojito and shozy BK and I need something bigger in stage...because my cousin got a mx760 diy from China and he is not telling model name to me. That sounded way better than my mojito plus comfortable. So after reading the review of NiceHCK graphene black metal model from slappypete, I think it is the niceHCK graphene.
> 
> So I want something better than that plus under 20$.
> 
> I have svara L too



why don't you just ask him the link where he bought it? if you said it's better than mojito and he's not telling, bribe him for $30, buy the buds. that's about $50  sell your mojito, and you still have a bit of profit


----------



## jogawag

chinmie said:


> thank you
> so soundstage-wise, they are about the same level? which one have better depth? judging from your description, i think i would prefer the SWD2+ more. the balanced connector versatility is also a great plus


Soundstage-wise level and depth, I feel "TM9 > SWD2+".


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 20, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I have rose mojito and shozy BK and I need something bigger in stage...because my cousin got a mx760 diy from China and he is not telling model name to me. That sounded way better than my mojito plus comfortable. So after reading the review of NiceHCK graphene black metal model from slappypete, I think it is the niceHCK graphene.
> 
> So I want something better than that plus under 20$.
> 
> I have svara L too


Are you trying to 1 up him or something lol.

He probably has the nicehck diy graphene, i personally thought the emx500 had a slightly bigger soundstage that’s reletively close to the mojito in overall space but not as wide.

If you’re asking for something bigger than mojito soundstage in the budget range I can only say good luck because I dunno if such an earbud exists.


----------



## toear

Ok... Here we go again...

I listen to all sorts of music, but am a bit of a 'mature basshead'... I like bass extension. I also like deep and wide soundstage.... I really don't like mid-high ranged earphones as it really limits my usability...

So my short list...

1) Svara L
2) k's samsara
3) k's ling (is there a difference between the silver and black other than color?
4) k's k600
5) EBX
6) toneking to200

From what I have read these all have full sized open can like qualities and decent bass for genres like edm.

I know they are in slight different price categories but the upcoming sales I'm hoping to snag something.

These would be my first totl (or close to?) earphones. A sound signature I have heard that works with everything I have listened to so far are the HE150 Pros.

Thanks in advance for the advice!


----------



## Danneq

jogawag said:


> This is my very short impression.
> 
> The sound quality of TM9 is characterized by neat and flat sound and balanced as a whole (although it has not been burned enough in yet), and buds the sound stage is also sufficiently wide 3-D. So with this buds you can enjoy music of most genres with confidence.
> However, IMHO, I think that some people may feel this buds too orthodox and being lack of fun.
> ...



Thank you for the comparison. How is the treble of SWD2+ compared to Moondrop Liebsleid?

TM9 sounds nice. Flat and neutral sound is what I prefer!

ありがとうございます!


----------



## TLDRonin

Haven't been in this thread for a while now


Whats the "king" at ~$50?


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 20, 2018)

toear said:


> Ok... Here we go again...
> 
> I listen to all sorts of music, but am a bit of a 'mature basshead'... I like bass extension. I also like deep and wide soundstage.... I really don't like mid-high ranged earphones as it really limits my usability...
> 
> ...


My Ling sounds more like a full sized semi closed back rather than an open back (because it literally is semi closed as its not vented from the back of the shell) bass extends very deep, it’s an overall bright sig though. soundstage is kinda spacious (not as airy as some of the bigger more open designs) but its depth layering is excellent and the width is pretty decent. It’s spacious without being particularly expansive or huge which is definitely a result of the lack of back vents.

The sound is more like a mature slight V shape than a total EDM type signature.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

seanc6441 said:


> Are you trying to 1 up him or something lol.
> 
> He probably has the nicehck diy graphene, i personally thought the emx500 had a slightly bigger soundstage that’s reletively close to the mojito in overall space but not as wide.
> 
> If you’re asking for something bigger than mojito soundstage in the budget range I can only say good luck because I dunno if such an earbud exists.


Yup

He told my cousin

It is the graphene

He got inspired by @slappypete and added blutack on driver housing and ran the bud on fiio a1


----------



## jogawag

Danneq said:


> Thank you for the comparison. How is the treble of SWD2+ compared to Moondrop Liebsleid?
> 
> TM9 sounds nice. Flat and neutral sound is what I prefer!
> 
> ありがとうございます!



Comparing the treble of SWD2+ and Moondrop Liebsleid, I like SWD2+ more, as Moondrop Liebsleid's treble sounds a bit artificial and bass sounds weak.
If you prefer flat and neutral sound, so you had better choice TM9. SWD2+ has a bit sharp treble. 

どういたしまして。


----------



## Danneq

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I have rose mojito and shozy BK and I need something bigger in stage...because my cousin got a mx760 diy from China and he is not telling model name to me. That sounded way better than my mojito plus comfortable. So after reading the review of NiceHCK graphene black metal model from slappypete, I think it is the niceHCK graphene.
> 
> So I want something better than that plus under 20$.
> 
> I have svara L too



Under $20 is difficult. Yincrow RW-777 has got a wide and deep soundstage but it's around $50.


----------



## jogawag (Aug 20, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Yup
> 
> He told my cousin
> 
> ...



I tried listening to NICEHCK DIY Graphene MX 760, but for that price it is Wide-Soundstage. That might be good.
But my two NICEHCK DIY Graphene MX 760 cables seem to rust from the base of the shell.

EDIT:
Now "Exclusive price:US $19.81"!


----------



## chaiyuta

@jogawag : レビューに関して、TM9のことがおもしろそうなんですね。では、姿はちょっと。。。


----------



## Danneq

toear said:


> Ok... Here we go again...
> 
> I listen to all sorts of music, but am a bit of a 'mature basshead'... I like bass extension. I also like deep and wide soundstage.... I really don't like mid-high ranged earphones as it really limits my usability...
> 
> ...



You could add Cypherus ZoomFred to your shortlist $249 excluding shipping). It's 32 ohm and easy to drive. Soft but still detailed treble, very deep bass with great texture, deep and wide soundstage with great instrument separation.

When it comes to sub bass and size of soundstage ZF is among the best earbuds I've heard.


----------



## Danneq

chaiyuta said:


> @jogawag : レビューに関して、TM9のことがおもしろそうなんですね。では、姿はちょっと。。。



TM7 looks like a $5 earbud with a cheap rubbery cable. But that was 6 years ago and it does sound its price.


----------



## golov17

Btw about Blox TM-9 Mr. Woo Fei said:
"... at that time you can order we will also have balanced 2.5mm..
now we only have single end 3.5mm in stock."


----------



## Lothar101

If anyone remembers them how does the Sharp 1 Bit earbuds compare to more modern offerings?


----------



## toear

HungryPanda said:


> That's exactly what I feel about them, first time I listened to them I thought of my HD650. They are always on my desk now


Are they hard to drive? I have a Zishan Z2 player, as well as a Walnut F1 that is mainly what I listen to.

Thx!


----------



## toear

seanc6441 said:


> My Ling sounds more like a full sized semi closed back rather than an open back (because it literally is semi closed as its not vented from the back of the shell) bass extends very deep, it’s an overall bright sig though. soundstage is kinda spacious (not as airy as some of the bigger more open designs) but its depth layering is excellent and the width is pretty decent. It’s spacious without being particularly expansive or huge which is definitely a result of the lack of back vents.
> 
> The sound is more like a mature slight V shape than a total EDM type signature.


Ok thanks! The info about the semi vs open back is exactly the kinds of detail I need... I will consider this...

Much appreciated!


----------



## toear

Danneq said:


> You could add Cypherus ZoomFred to your shortlist $249 excluding shipping). It's 32 ohm and easy to drive. Soft but still detailed treble, very deep bass with great texture, deep and wide soundstage with great instrument separation.
> 
> When it comes to sub bass and size of soundstage ZF is among the best earbuds I've heard.


Thanks for the suggestion! I will look into them. Much appreciated!


----------



## DAndrew

Danneq said:


> Thank you for the comparison. How is the treble of SWD2+ compared to Moondrop Liebsleid?
> 
> TM9 sounds nice. Flat and neutral sound is what I prefer!
> 
> ありがとうございます!



If you like Flat and neutral , then the only way to go imo is Blur. I strongly recommend them for that kind of sound signature


----------



## jogawag

Blox Mr. Woo told me by email "TM9 burning in takes around 120 hours".


----------



## TLDRonin

What are the current "best" earbuds for around ~$30-$40?


----------



## ClieOS

jogawag said:


> Soundstage-wise level and depth, I feel "TM9 > SWD2+".



That's nothing that I know that can beat TM9 on soundstage, not even Mojito. It is the most "full sized" feeling I ever heard on any earbud.


----------



## cocolinho

where can we get these Blox TM9? There is nothing on the official website


----------



## jogawag

cocolinho said:


> where can we get these Blox TM9? There is nothing on the official website


You can start to email (sale@bloxearphone.com) to purchase it.


----------



## jogawag (Aug 21, 2018)

TLDRonin said:


> What are the current "best" earbuds for around ~$30-$40?


Willsound PK32 or Willsound MK 3 was the reputation for this 2-3 months, wasn't it?
Willsound MK 2.2 also had a good reputation, but it seems to be out of stock.
http://www.rholupat.com/product?page=4


----------



## chinmie

ClieOS said:


> That's nothing that I know that can beat TM9 on soundstage, not even Mojito. It is the most "full sized" feeling I ever heard on any earbud.



darn this post, why do i have to read this?


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> darn this post, why do i have to read this?



Pretend you never saw it.


----------



## HungryPanda (Aug 21, 2018)

Faaeal Datura-X earbuds arrived and just put in my ears. first impressions are rather favourable. Bass is good, tight. mids clear and present, guitars sounding nice. Highs pleasant not sharp in any way. Let the burn in commence


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## chinmie

HungryPanda said:


> Faaeal Datura earbuds arrived and just put in my ears. first impressions are rather favourable. Bass is good, tight. mids clear and present, guitars sounding nice. Highs pleasant not sharp in any way. Let the burn in commence



can't wait for mine, it has arrived in my country, i hope it will get here soon


----------



## fairx

HungryPanda said:


> Faaeal Datura-X earbuds arrived and just put in my ears. first impressions are rather favourable. Bass is good, tight. mids clear and present, guitars sounding nice. Highs pleasant not sharp in any way. Let the burn in commence


Does it compare to anything else in your inventory?


----------



## fairx (Aug 21, 2018)

Double post. Delete


----------



## fairx

This is perhaps the first earbud that I felt sounded full without ever need to apply foam. In fact applying foams will make it sound muddy. 

Very transparent sounding but there's something about the lower mids that made certain track sounds carackly or wet-ish. Those track however very few in between. 

It's also my current driver for TV / movies watching (LO to my amp). The sound seems like they're  coming from the TV and not in front of my face.  Still around 10 hour burning.


----------



## seanc6441

fairx said:


> This is perhaps the first earbud that I felt sounded full without ever need to apply foam. In fact applying foams will make it sound muddy.
> 
> Very transparent sounding but there's something about the lower mids that made certain track sounds carackly or wet-ish. Those track however very few in between.
> 
> It's also my current driver for TV / movies watching (LO to my amp). The sound seems like they're  coming from the TV and not in front of my face.  Still around 10 hour burning.


Is it a stock docomo earbud?


----------



## fairx

seanc6441 said:


> Is it a stock docomo earbud?


Yes bro it's the docomo. Forgot to mention in my post.


----------



## HungryPanda

The Daura-X sound different from my other favourite earbuds, just great for rock and pop


----------



## mbwilson111

fairx said:


> Yes bro it's the docomo. Forgot to mention in my post.



My Blur Black Panther is a modded Docomo.  I use it with no foam.  Very comfortable and sounds great.


----------



## DBaldock9

Spent a good part of today with my Blur 150Ω hALF/hALF plugged in to to my Radsone ES100, and connected to my new LG V30 (US998). When I enabled BT, and paired them, they automatically connected with LDAC (24-Bit/96-KHz).  Mostly had TuneIn Pro running, but also used UAPP some.


----------



## mochill

So my TM9 was stuck at new York custom for two days now and finally it had moved , hopefully getting it in two days:-D


----------



## taxi508

How can you tell left from right with the Moondrop Liebesleid, sir?


----------



## jrazmar

chinmie said:


> can't wait for mine, it has arrived in my country, i hope it will get here soon



Will be waiting for your impressions and possibly a comparison to the Liebesleid. Never thought I will be this excited again to post in this thread since getting my Liebesleid. I had the TM5 before but that was a long time ago. Don't remember anything special about that earbuds in terms of sound quality. Things have changed and tech has greatly evolved so this new TM9 might be special. I wonder why they skipped TM8.


----------



## taxi508

"Will be waiting for your impressions and possibly a comparison to the Liebesleid. Never thought I will be this excited again to post in this thread since getting my Liebesleid."

Let me first say that I simply appreciate good or better sounding gear, but am not an expert of any kind.  My impressions are purely personal, not technical, and should be taken as coming from a simple person who might possess some kind of knowledge, pedestrian though it may be, regarding music and his own preference.

That being said, out of the box, I was blown away. Punchy bass and sparkling highs very wide sound stage. Very clear separation of instruments. Clarity is superb without any sibilance. I've played Tchaikovsky, 70s, 80s, 90s, Jazz, Swing - doesn't matter, sound is full and detailed. I'm tempted to say as good as my burned-in Mojito.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

I got the NiceHCK graphene 2017 black...

@slappypete review was right.

This thing is as good as shozy BK with less in face mids and extended treble.

Soundstage is phenomenal.

Just make sure anybody who is interested should take black one with metal grill.

Bass: linear and throughout, bass extends deeper and has a good rumble. Don't expect mid bass thump as the bass is more tame and lean but has enough authority.

Mids: tamed down version of BK, which leads to something like ocharaku co donguri sort of tuning. It is warm but sort of clean. Mids are coloured in a good way which makes guitar plucks and string sound "Ting" instead of "ding". What makes it different of ocharaku iem is that female vocal sounds more mature instead of magical(ocharaku iem).

Treble: best extension under 100$. Better than mojito and sort if linear without peaks. It rolls of slightly from female vocals and goes linear making instrument harmonics or nature more real life instead of coloured.

Pace, rhythm and timing: here it only competes with under 50$. Somewhat inferior to Svara L on bass departments but better than shozy BK on mids and treble. Svara L authority is on bass presentation with perfect mids and treble but it lacks compared shozy BK control over mids. NiceHCK graphene outshine both of them.

Decay: naturally tight(bass is tight but still decay to give good presentation). High treble(above 8kHz) gets a little splashy but still very good

Con: splashy high range which makes it feel like a peak but is not peaky.


----------



## euge (Aug 22, 2018)




----------



## dhruvmeena96

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-diy-mx760-graphene-10-22000hz.22777/reviews

This is the plastic version review compared to my metallic grill one.

Plastic one has grater stage but the bass is honky due to semi open driver cover compared to full open .

Mine sounds more trebly but is still smooth.

Internal reflection inside the semi open makes it more soundstage due to more natural decay. Mine sounds intimate compared to this and actually better for audiophile sounds.


----------



## luedriver

I did it, I pulled the trigger on the TM9, the most expensive headphone I ever bought, will be the second most expensive audio gear after my JBL monitor speakers which cost me $500 AUD

can't say that I'm not excited though


----------



## bavinck

I don't think the TM9 is a hype train yet as only a couple have heard them. But this FOMO train could easily become the FOMO-HYPE Connect!


----------



## mbwilson111

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I got the NiceHCK graphene 2017 black...



How did you get it so quickly?  You were only asking about it 2 days ago.


----------



## Danneq

bavinck said:


> I don't think the TM9 is a hype train yet as only a couple have heard them. But this FOMO train could easily become the FOMO-HYPE Connect!



Well, Blox has got a great reputation and TM7 from 2012 is almost legendary. I find mid tier Blox to only be okay but the TOTL Blox buds are among the best earbuds around.


----------



## chinmie

jrazmar said:


> Will be waiting for your impressions and possibly a comparison to the Liebesleid. Never thought I will be this excited again to post in this thread since getting my Liebesleid. I had the TM5 before but that was a long time ago. Don't remember anything special about that earbuds in terms of sound quality. Things have changed and tech has greatly evolved so this new TM9 might be special. I wonder why they skipped TM8.



Unfortunately I'm waiting for the datura, not the TM9 . I'm contemplating whether to buy the TM9 or not, as I like my current collections already. but i think i can get a comparison as my friend is currently waiting for the TM9.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

mbwilson111 said:


> How did you get it so quickly?  You were only asking about it 2 days ago.


i live in india and i have a bro working at Fedex. So most of the time he is checking up my delivery
thats why

FEDEX is lightning fast in india and china is pretty nearby

i got the ES4 preorder also very quickly.....remember!!

i dont have to pay for the shipping most of the time


----------



## jogawag (Aug 22, 2018)

"DIY PK1 PK2 SR 2PRO earphone 16 ohms 32 ohms 150 ohms" is about to arrive I think. So, as the matter of that burn-in, this is from the cellar.
"It is necessary to burn in for 100 hours without using the burn-in file. then after that, there is no problem even at high volume.".

I used the burn-in file twice for this buds, but it may be the reason why the sound has been sometimes blurred at last. (Editted)
So I purchased this buds once more. I am now waiting for this new buds to receive... (Editted)

BTW, I recommended it only by one person, so I care about everyone's evaluation. If it is okay, even before or after burn-in, please let me know your impression.


----------



## mbwilson111

jogawag said:


> "DIY PK1 PK2 SR 2PRO earphone 16 ohms 32 ohms 150 ohms" is about to arrive I think. So, as the matter of that burn-in, this is from the cellar.
> "It is necessary to burn in for 100 hours without using the burn-in file. then after that, there is no problem even at high volume.".
> 
> I used the burn-in file twice for this buds, but it may be the reason why the sound was temporarily blurred.
> ...



I think mine has arrived in the country.  I always burn things in using regular flac files either plugged into a spare DAP or plugged into my PC desktop system.  I listen during the process when I want to.  I usually give it short breaks once in awhile.

I think mine


----------



## seanc6441

dhruvmeena96 said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-diy-mx760-graphene-10-22000hz.22777/reviews
> 
> This is the plastic version review compared to my metallic grill one.
> 
> ...


Once I vented the plastic one it sounded better, so I'm guessing the metal one is what I'd prefer by far. The bass on the plastic one is way too wholly and bloated. It veils the whole signature.

Other than the 4khz peak it's a good signature, bright but with a warmer low end and moderate sub bass extension. But it's tuning seems to suffer like most of these graphene drivers the odd peaks of brightness that throw off the tonality.


----------



## rkw

taxi508 said:


> How can you tell left from right with the Moondrop Liebesleid, sir?


The stems are different.


----------



## Zerohour88

Was looking around taobao, suddenly found the official K's store

saw this new model on the page, no idea what the name is since its all chinese (as usual), usd$240-ish, so a new totl?

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...7.10009.70205.100200300000001&id=557755690491


----------



## subwoof3r

Really loving my new MMC cable that I just received today for my EBX.
A real high-end cable finition at an affordable price. Extremely comfortable and much more flexible. Around the ear experience is much better now.
Finition is just outstanding and looks very good on the EBX. Also, it finally fixed my bad contacts issues that I was facing with the original EBX cable!
I'm happy


----------



## mochill

TM9 left today apparently from new York  so I'll get them by Friday I hope


----------



## taxi508

rkw said:


> The stems are different.


Thanks.I'm so blown away by these buds.Still trying to pick-up my scattered brain parts.


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Aug 22, 2018)

Astrotec lyra classic/collection edition is still the best.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

seanc6441 said:


> Once I vented the plastic one it sounded better, so I'm guessing the metal one is what I'd prefer by far. The bass on the plastic one is way too wholly and bloated. It veils the whole signature.
> 
> Other than the 4khz peak it's a good signature, bright but with a warmer low end and moderate sub bass extension. But it's tuning seems to suffer like most of these graphene drivers the odd peaks of brightness that throw off the tonality.


Not present on the metal one.

Graphene coated diaphragm makes diaphragm stiffer without increasing weight, somewhat turning it into partial tweeter. Hard cone starts acting like pure piston which is good for speaker and not iem. The moment you put a extended driver near your ear, your ear structure will make it peaky.

I did not experience that on my pair


----------



## dhruvmeena96

I have astrotec lyra classic/ collection and it blows away everything so far...

Seriously nothing stands in his domain.


----------



## 40760 (Aug 23, 2018)

Replacement Astrotec Lyra Collection was sent back again due to another case of poor QC.

Seller is replacing it with a Simphonio Dragon 2+...

Fingers crossed this time.


----------



## rkw

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I have astrotec lyra classic/ collection and it blows away everything so far...
> 
> Seriously nothing stands in his domain.


Please tell us what you've compared it to, and in what ways you find the Astrotec to be superior. What type of music do you listen to?


----------



## dhruvmeena96

rkw said:


> Please tell us what you've compared it to, and in what ways you find the Astrotec to be superior. What type of music do you listen to?


I listen everything(most of the genre) but most of the time the famous one. I sorta avoid metal sometimes.

My astrotec lyra collection is too clean for eatbud and avoid the hollowness most of the iem is suffering (even my shozy bk).

Bass is leaner and a little weaker but mids and treble are killer


----------



## ClieOS

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I have astrotec lyra classic/ collection and it blows away everything so far...
> 
> Seriously nothing stands in his domain.



Can't say I hold such high an opinion on the Lyra Classic. Didn't bother to try the Lyra Collection as someone whom I trust (and own both high and low impedance version) told me it is not quite up to par to be referred as ToTL just yet. Having own Lyra 6 and Lyra Classic, my opinion is that Astrotec still yet to prove it can compete in the top level, even though it can made good earbuds.


----------



## 40760

ClieOS said:


> Can't say I hold such high an opinion on the Lyra Classic. Didn't bother to try the Lyra Collection as someone whom I trust (and own both high and low impedance version) told me it is not quite up to par to be referred as ToTL just yet. Having own Lyra 6 and Lyra Classic, my opinion is that Astrotec still yet to prove it can compete in the top level, even though it can made good earbuds.



I'm hoping the SWD2+ to be an upgrade from the Lyra Collection...


----------



## chinmie

palestofwhite said:


> Replacement Astrotec Lyra Collection was sent back again due to another case of poor QC.
> 
> Seller is replacing it with a Simphonio Dragon 2+ at no additional cost...
> 
> Fingers crossed this time.



i think this is the better arrangement. chances are you'll gonna love the SWD2+


----------



## 40760

chinmie said:


> i think this is the better arrangement. chances are you'll gonna love the SWD2+


 
I'm really glad to hear this from you... I also feel that the shells will be a lot more comfortable for longer listening...


----------



## dhruvmeena96

ClieOS said:


> Can't say I hold such high an opinion on the Lyra Classic. Didn't bother to try the Lyra Collection as someone whom I trust (and own both high and low impedance version) told me it is not quite up to par to be referred as ToTL just yet. Having own Lyra 6 and Lyra Classic, my opinion is that Astrotec still yet to prove it can compete in the top level, even though it can made good earbuds.


Its our opinion and ears as we our fundamentally different in our ear structure and brain perception to sound etc.
Now I sound like him
@Slater 

I find shozy BK shouty and upfront sometimes. Some find it smooth, I find it grainy and revealing


----------



## ClieOS

palestofwhite said:


> Replacement Astrotec Lyra Collection was sent back again due to another case of poor QC.
> 
> Seller is replacing it with a Simphonio Dragon 2+...
> 
> Fingers crossed this time.



Sounds like a better deal to me. Hopefully no more problem from now on.


----------



## dheepak10 (Aug 23, 2018)

Since my Moonbuds Bunting has been loaned to a friend, I have been rocking one the buds I have sparsely used - V-Oldy from V-Friend of Thailand.
I had reviewed their V-Master flagship earlier and was not that impressed.
The V-Oldy costs in the $20 range and has a poorly finished paint quality, even for budget bud standards.

But they sound really good, especially with the Shanling M0 (Linear Phase Fast Roll off filter). The Shanling has a warmer tone with nice boost to the sub-bass and this works wonders for the humble V-Oldy - not the most detailed sound, but there is enough to keep it more than likable (Thin foams used; not the thick ones shown in the pic )

The demo unit was sent to me by V-friend team along with my purchase of the V-Master.


----------



## TLDRonin

How big are MX500 compared to the **** pt15s

Thinking of picking up the willsound mk3s, but I'd preferably like something sliiiiiightly smaller than the pt15s (diameter of the speaker area)


----------



## RobinFood

Does anyone have the Willsound MK2 and the Shanling M0?
I found that the "Sharp" EQ setting on the Shanling with the stock foams makes them sound extremely clear and neutral! It also makes the imaging better. For acoustic or alternative rock, it works a treat.

I'd really like to replicate the EQ settings on my PC too, does anyone know what a generic "Sharp" EQ setting would look like with the APO equalizer on PC?


----------



## 40760

ClieOS said:


> Sounds like a better deal to me. Hopefully no more problem from now on.



Glad to hear from you too!


----------



## dhruvmeena96

NiceHCK graphene is serious deal(2017 diy edition) and not mx760

Black version metal grill

It just does so much justice to my music that I have been listening to it for past 3hours nonstop.

I can't stop myself from loving it.

Stage, separation is phenomenal for 20$. Better than rose mojito in every way except the extension(can't argue with dual driver and super expensive piece of hardware).

I tried NiceHCK ebx and they sorta sound somewhat similar, just that EBX does more justice to low end with more authority and control timing. EBX is a little more upfront but I dont know why niceHCK graphene makes me remember the ocharaku sound. Bell like highs(masterful decays) and a very nice but lean bass with a very well mastered soundscape and image.

I will just say to niceHCK that please update the body to something better and ditch the plastic.


----------



## DBaldock9

Today at work, I've got my NiceHCK EBX plugged into my Radsone ES100, connected via LDAC (24-Bit/96-KHz) to my new LG V30 (US998), rooted and running LineageOS.
The phone can sit on my desk, or be in the holster on my belt, and the ES100 is on my badge lanyard.
Currently streaming Google Play Music (The Celtic Spirit).
.
(Photo taken with my old phone - Google Nexus 5)


----------



## seanc6441

RobinFood said:


> Does anyone have the Willsound MK2 and the Shanling M0?
> I found that the "Sharp" EQ setting on the Shanling with the stock foams makes them sound extremely clear and neutral! It also makes the imaging better. For acoustic or alternative rock, it works a treat.
> 
> I'd really like to replicate the EQ settings on my PC too, does anyone know what a generic "Sharp" EQ setting would look like with the APO equalizer on PC?


The sharp/slow settings on some DAP's are filters implemented in the dac chip I believe. I think it's a processing effect to adjust the decay and I may be wrong in saying this but I don't think an EQ can create the same effect.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

seanc6441 said:


> The sharp/slow settings on some DAP's are filters implemented in the dac chip I believe. I think it's a processing effect to adjust the decay and I may be wrong in saying this but I don't think an EQ can create the same effect.


it is something precoded on DAC on how it capture and process signal and how it maintains peak thow of frequency. mostly in DAC which support DSD, it also acts on the PCM signal. lower peak and larger energy flow makes thing warmer and louder while sharp filter makes thing faster and cleaner but more peak burst which can damage you earphones. so i recommend to listen on low volume(DAP are always loud) from DSD capable DAP(They are already pretty loud)


----------



## RobinFood

seanc6441 said:


> The sharp/slow settings on some DAP's are filters implemented in the dac chip I believe. I think it's a processing effect to adjust the decay and I may be wrong in saying this but I don't think an EQ can create the same effect.



Those are the filters, but this "Sharp" is an EQ mode. It's in the EQ settings along with "Bass", "Classical", "Rock", and so on. Most of the EQ settings muddy up the sound, but the sharp filter works perfectly with the Willsound MK2, but not with my other earphones.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

RobinFood said:


> Those are the filters, but this "Sharp" is an EQ mode. It's in the EQ settings along with "Bass", "Classical", "Rock", and so on. Most of the EQ settings muddy up the sound, but the sharp filter works perfectly with the Willsound MK2, but not with my other earphones.


oooohhhh lol

i dont have the dap you have bro


----------



## theoutsider

DBaldock9 said:


> Today at work, I've got my NiceHCK EBX plugged into my Radsone ES100, connected via LDAC (24-Bit/96-KHz) to my new LG V30 (US998), rooted and running LineageOS.
> The phone can sit on my desk, or be in the holster on my belt, and the ES100 is on my badge lanyard.
> Currently streaming Google Play Music (The Celtic Spirit).
> .
> (Photo taken with my old phone - Google Nexus 5)


nice mobile audio rig.

did i make a mistake skipping EBX?


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 23, 2018)

RobinFood said:


> Those are the filters, but this "Sharp" is an EQ mode. It's in the EQ settings along with "Bass", "Classical", "Rock", and so on. Most of the EQ settings muddy up the sound, but the sharp filter works perfectly with the Willsound MK2, but not with my other earphones.


It's probably reducing the mid-bass-low mids and increasing the upper mid-low treble range then. Willsound mk2 is borderline bloated in the upper bass (hence the use of super thin foams as stock) and any reduction of the 100-300hz range will make the mk2 much 'cleaner' sounding. Bumping up the lower treble makes the sound more agressive or 'sharp' too.

Just a guess but the 100-300hz range is definitely an area to target on the mk2 for a more balanced sound.


----------



## DBaldock9

theoutsider said:


> nice mobile audio rig.
> 
> did i make a mistake skipping EBX?



Well, I haven't heard most of the earbuds on your equipment list, but if you can - imagine the TO200, with "_fast_" Bass that goes even lower (without causing Midbass bloat), as well as slightly forward Midrange, and clear detailed Treble - that's my impression of the EBX.


----------



## j4100 (Aug 23, 2018)

TLDRonin said:


> How big are MX500 compared to the **** pt15s
> 
> Thinking of picking up the willsound mk3s, but I'd preferably like something sliiiiiightly smaller than the pt15s (diameter of the speaker area)



If you mean overall diameter, the PT15 is 0.5mm smaller than the MX500 shell. A couple of us posted some measurements in this thread some time back.


Edit: check page 1895 for a few more.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

DBaldock9 said:


> Well, I haven't heard most of the earbuds on your equipment list, but if you can - imagine the TO200, with "_fast_" Bass that goes even lower (without causing Midbass bloat), as well as slightly forward Midrange, and clear detailed Treble - that's my impression of the EBX.


Same with me....it just goes lower and lower for an earbud without bloating


----------



## bhima

Snagged those new, Faaeal Datura-x from Amazon prime cheaper than aliexpress. Should have them soon and will post impressions for whatever thats worth.


----------



## TLDRonin

j4100 said:


> If you mean overall diameter, the PT15 is 0.5mm smaller than the MX500 shell. A couple of us posted some measurements in this thread some time back.
> 
> 
> Edit: check page 1895 for a few more.


Damn

Anyone have any comparisons with the mk3 and pk32?


----------



## chinmie

TLDRonin said:


> Damn
> 
> Anyone have any comparisons with the mk3 and pk32?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1739#post-13911848

an old post by @chaiyuta 

the PT15 is a bit smaller than the MX500/MK2 shell, so the PK32 with yuin shell might suit your size requirement. 

there's also PK16 if you like a darker blackground and less warm sound than the PK32


----------



## silverfishla

bhima said:


> Snagged those new, Faaeal Datura-x from Amazon prime cheaper than aliexpress. Should have them soon and will post impressions for whatever thats worth.


Mine are on their way, but I’d really like to hear your impressions.  I have a couple of Faaeal buds and they sound different from my other buds, wondering if they carried on with their signature sound.


----------



## mbwilson111

silverfishla said:


> Mine are on their way, but I’d really like to hear your impressions.  I have a couple of Faaeal buds and they sound different from my other buds, wondering if they carried on with their signature sound.



How would you describe their signature sound?  I have the Faaeal Rosemary but I don't know how to describe the signature.  All I can say is that I enjoy it.


----------



## TLDRonin

chinmie said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1739#post-13911848
> 
> an old post by @chaiyuta
> 
> ...


Yeah I remember seeing reviews of earbuds with pk32 shells saying they were smaller. They also look better, IMO.

The pk16 look interesting.... I wish there were more impressions/reviews on it.


----------



## jogawag (Aug 23, 2018)

TLDRonin said:


> How big are MX500 compared to the **** pt15s
> 
> Thinking of picking up the willsound mk3s, but I'd preferably like something sliiiiiightly smaller than the pt15s (diameter of the speaker area)



MX500's diameter is about 16.8mm, **** pt15's diameter is about 16mm and Willsound PK type's diameter is about 16.2mm.



TLDRonin said:


> Yeah I remember seeing reviews of earbuds with pk32 shells saying they were smaller. They also look better, IMO.
> 
> The pk16 look interesting.... I wish there were more impressions/reviews on it.


Do not like Willsound PK32? There were enough impressions/reviews on it.

BTW, do you like NONNONBIYORI Anime?


----------



## chinmie

TLDRonin said:


> Yeah I remember seeing reviews of earbuds with pk32 shells saying they were smaller. They also look better, IMO.
> 
> The pk16 look interesting.... I wish there were more impressions/reviews on it.



it's really similar to PK32 with darker background  less warm tone, and a bit more detailed sound. i like it better for busier music, and the PK32 for simpler vocal music.


----------



## bhima

silverfishla said:


> Mine are on their way, but I’d really like to hear your impressions.  I have a couple of Faaeal buds and they sound different from my other buds, wondering if they carried on with their signature sound.



Regarding Earbuds, I only own the VE Monk+ currently, so I will be comparing the Datura's to them. I might for fun throw in my PortaPro's, and AKG K7XX into the mix, but I don't think they will be as valuable to the community. At least everyone owns a VE Monk+, so they are a good reference for any comparison.


----------



## silverfishla

mbwilson111 said:


> How would you describe their signature sound?  I have the Faaeal Rosemary but I don't know how to describe the signature.  All I can say is that I enjoy it.


I would say that they are very upfront sounding with empahasis on the lower end and mids (snow lotus).  My higher ohm pair (Narcissus) sound this way too when properly amped.  They are both dry sounding to me.  They sound like little full size standing speakers to me.  The Beatles stereo remasters sound great as well as the Creedence remasters.  Big sound.  Female vocals can sound a bit thin though, without enough meat in that range.  They are like the “bro” bud of buds.


----------



## rkw

jogawag said:


> MX500's diameter is about 16.8mm, **** pt15's diameter is about 16mm and Willsound PK type's diameter is about 16.2mm.


That makes the difference in diameter between MX500 and PK only 0.6mm, which I'd argue is practically negligible.

The difference in fit is mostly due to the shapes of the side profiles. The driver holder of the MX500 is much thicker and sits further from the stem.


----------



## TLDRonin

jogawag said:


> MX500's diameter is about 16.8mm, **** pt15's diameter is about 16mm and Willsound PK type's diameter is about 16.2mm.
> 
> 
> Do not like Willsound PK32? There were enough impressions/reviews on it.
> ...


I meant there aren't many reviews on the pk16

And yes, I love non non biyori


----------



## Danneq

DAndrew said:


> If you like Flat and neutral , then the only way to go imo is Blur. I strongly recommend them for that kind of sound signature



Blur seems interesting, but it's difficult to get an overview of the different Blur models. I could be interested in something TOTL and below 70 ohm from Blur. I used to own some high impedance earbuds but then decided to only go low impedance so I sold them all and also my portable amps.


----------



## redkingjoe

E="Danneq, post: 14441950, member: 148426"]Blur seems interesting, but it's difficult to get an overview of the different Blur models. I could be interested in something TOTL and below 70 ohm from Blur. I used to own some high impedance earbuds but then decided to only go low impedance so I sold them all and also my portable amps.[/QUOTE]

I have a pair of blur irdkwth edition...really great sound

I believe the best investment will be a blur mmcx head + Siltech cable. It should be unbeatable

the only draw back of Siltech is not quite good for travel but Siltech is one of the top 3 cables in the market. My friend is an audiophile he tested a whole lot of hi-end earphone cable. He said Siltech is within top 3.


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> it's really similar to PK32 with darker background  less warm tone, and a bit more detailed sound. i like it better for busier music, and the PK32 for simpler vocal music.



Sounds really nice. how does the data retrieval of the PK16 compare to the MK2?


----------



## cocolinho

Danneq said:


> Blur seems interesting, but it's difficult to get an overview of the different Blur models.


True. So many models out there it is impossible to understand what he makes & how it sounds, on top of that prices are hidden


----------



## letlive

I'm in between Seahf AWK-F150C and FAAEAL Snow Lotus 2.0. I like the bass of the EMXs-500. What would you guys recommend?


----------



## loomisjohnson

letlive said:


> I'm in between Seahf AWK-F150C and FAAEAL Snow Lotus 2.0. I like the bass of the EMXs-500. What would you guys recommend?


surprisingly, these were the first two buds i bought--of the two i much prefer the faaeal, which has better-controlled bass and a very open airy stage.


----------



## mochill

So it looks like my TM9 left new York queens today-_-, .so I'll be getting it next week by monday


----------



## mbwilson111

letlive said:


> I'm in between Seahf AWK-F150C and FAAEAL Snow Lotus 2.0. I like the bass of the EMXs-500. What would you guys recommend?



I have never heard the EMXs but I have heard the other two.  Both are great.  I have the Seahf and my husband has the Snow Lotus.  I have never tried to a/b the sound but I do prefer the Seahf.  I don't think you would be disappointed with either but the Seahf has a much more comfortable cable.  The one on the Snow Lotus, while nice, is quite heavy.

Because the Seahf is 150 ohm I use one of my higher powered DAPS or my desktop setup which includes a dac/amp.


----------



## bavinck

cocolinho said:


> True. So many models out there it is impossible to understand what he makes & how it sounds, on top of that prices are hidden


He works through Facebook. Send him a message and he will give you all the details, descriptions and pricing. He will help you find exactly what you want. Working with him was a way better experience than buying something from a more conventional online store.


----------



## chinmie

i like this, nice build, sturdy case, can't find a fault in the sound especially for the price (Faaeal Datura X)


----------



## cocolinho

I bought a pair of Blur from Wong last year, very nice communication on facebook but I feel he released too many models in few months only to get peoples onboard. my2cents


----------



## bavinck

cocolinho said:


> I bought a pair of Blur from Wong last year, very nice communication on facebook but I feel he released too many models in few months only to get peoples onboard. my2cents


Nah, I think he just loves building them and tinkering and if he can sell it bonus.


----------



## mbwilson111

bavinck said:


> Nah, I think he just loves building them and tinkering and if he can sell it bonus.



It seems like he only makes a few of one model and then he likes to experiment with something else.   I like that he is enjoying himself.  I love my Black Panther.  I don't think he made any more of those after I bought mine.  Not sure how many there were total.


----------



## Danneq (Aug 24, 2018)

I bought more than earbuds and a DAP in Japan. I managed to find a package of Sony foams (EP-E3). It has been discontinued since April this year. I also bough some Audio Technica foams (ER-40).
Herry of Cypherus said that he thought the Sony's were best and that the ATH are also good.

 

Guess the Red Dragon will get the Sony foams. ZoomFred sounds the best with no foams. I used a silicone ring from the VE EX-pack with the fins cut off.

Have ordered Blox TM9. Moondrop Liebsleid might be on their way out. Amazing clarity and detail but a bit to clinically analytical for my tastes


----------



## bavinck

mbwilson111 said:


> It seems like he only makes a few of one model and then he likes to experiment with something else.   I like that he is enjoying himself.  I love my Black Panther.  I don't think he made any more of those after I bought mine.  Not sure how many there were total.


Yes I think so. I ordered from him recently and my impression is all his buds are basically the same with small variations in cable, housing, etc that he feels change the sound. He does offer differing drivers based on impedance, but am pretty sure they all share the same drivers. I think what he is doing is really fun and I am highly enjoying being a part of it


----------



## bhima

chinmie said:


> i like this, nice build, sturdy case, can't find a fault in the sound especially for the price (Faaeal Datura X)


can you compare them to other earbuds ypu own?


----------



## miroslav (Aug 24, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> ...but the Seahf has a much more comfortable cable.  The one on the Snow Lotus, while nice, is quite heavy.


Snow Lotus 1.0 have standard cable/plug and the same specifications as 2.0 (except for sensitivity - 109dB vs. 119±3dB). They are also 30% cheaper. It would be great to hear from someone if these two are actually the same soundwise.

I was thinking of going for Snow Lotus 1.0 in this sale at Ali, but those DIY Graphene at 17 EUR are extremely tempting. I do have the new MX760 Graphene but everyone says the old ones are the real deal so it must be true.

In the meantime, I am absolutely enjoying the EMX 500s (they slightly win over MX760) and I don't actually need any new earbuds, but my Head-Fi brain doesn't agree..


----------



## mbwilson111 (Aug 24, 2018)

miroslav said:


> Snow Lotus 1.0 have standard cable/plug and the same specifications as 2.0 (except for sensitivity - 109dB vs. 119±3dB). They are also 30% cheaper. It would be great to hear from someone if these two are actually the same soundwise.
> 
> I was thinkig of going for Snow Lotus 1.0 in this sale at Ali, but those DIY Graphene at 17 EUR are extremely tempting. I do have the new MX760 Graphene but everyone says the old ones are the real deal so it must be true.
> 
> In the meantime, I am absolutely enjoying the EMX 500s (they slightly win over MX760) and I don't actually need any new earbuds, but my Head-Fi brain doesn't agree..



We all know about head-fi brain disorder   I have heard that the Snow Lotus 1.0 and 2.0 are not the same but have never heard the 1.0, so someone else would have to compare.

I have been using the Seahf AWK-F150C quite a bit today.. ever since they were mentioned earlier... can't find any fault with them.  Loving drums on these.  Listening to everything from Leonard Cohen to some good Blues.


----------



## letlive

mbwilson111 said:


> I don't think you would be disappointed with either but the Seahf has a much more comfortable cable.  The one on the Snow Lotus, while nice, is quite heavy.


Thank you. There is a white version of the Snow Lotus with a similar cable as the Seahf.


----------



## mbwilson111

letlive said:


> Thank you. There is a white version of the Snow Lotus with a similar cable as the Seahf.



Is that the Snow Lotus 1.0 or 2.0?   Still wondering what the difference in sound might be... I doubt it is just a cable change.


----------



## chinmie

bhima said:


> can you compare them to other earbuds ypu own?



which ones do you like to compare it to?


----------



## dhruvmeena96

redkingjoe said:


> @Danneq is the expert in this!
> 
> When I was a kid, I had a few Sony mdr-e484 which come with diamond amorphous diaphragm, class 1 Linear crystal-ofc litz cable, ceramic housing, gold plated unimatch plug, very advanced. The material and design of it was much better than many of the modern one. I listen to cassette tape with a Walkman.
> 
> ...


Because Sony music company made that thing and not the Sony consumer electronics

Today's Sony pro you can say


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Aug 24, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Next thing they'll be paying you buy them


Nice strategy to attract consumers by the way



miroslav said:


> Snow Lotus 1.0 have standard cable/plug and the same specifications as 2.0 (except for sensitivity - 109dB vs. 119±3dB). They are also 30% cheaper. It would be great to hear from someone if these two are actually the same soundwise.
> 
> I was thinking of going for Snow Lotus 1.0 in this sale at Ali, but those DIY Graphene at 17 EUR are extremely tempting. I do have the new MX760 Graphene but everyone says the old ones are the real deal so it must be true.
> 
> In the meantime, I am absolutely enjoying the EMX 500s (they slightly win over MX760) and I don't actually need any new earbuds, but my Head-Fi brain doesn't agree..



If the old ones are the 30kHz and metal cover one, then I can give you a one liner review.

Better than shozy BK in every term and more neutral


----------



## DBaldock9

redkingjoe said:


> @Danneq is the expert in this!
> 
> When I was a kid, I had a few Sony mdr-e484 which come with diamond amorphous diaphragm, class 1 Linear crystal-ofc litz cable, ceramic housing, gold plated unimatch plug, very advanced. The material and design of it was much better than many of the modern one. I listen to cassette tape with a Walkman.
> 
> ...



I agree that, when listening to a well produced live recording, hearing how realistic the audience applause sounds, is one of the things I use to gauge the accuracy of earbuds (and earphones / headphones).


----------



## seanc6441

redkingjoe said:


> E="Danneq, post: 14441950, member: 148426"]Blur seems interesting, but it's difficult to get an overview of the different Blur models. I could be interested in something TOTL and below 70 ohm from Blur. I used to own some high impedance earbuds but then decided to only go low impedance so I sold them all and also my portable amps.



I have a pair of blur irdkwth edition...really great sound

I believe the best investment will be a blur mmcx head + Siltech cable. It should be unbeatable

the only draw back of Siltech is not quite good for travel but Siltech is one of the top 3 cables in the market. My friend is an audiophile he tested a whole lot of hi-end earphone cable. He said Siltech is within top 3.

[/QUOTE]
Whats in the box? is it a resistor to change the impendance or something?


----------



## doggiemom

bavinck said:


> Yes I think so. I ordered from him recently and my impression is all his buds are basically the same with small variations in cable, housing, etc that he feels change the sound. He does offer differing drivers based on impedance, but am pretty sure they all share the same drivers. I think what he is doing is really fun and I am highly enjoying being a part of it


Agreed.  I have one set of Blur earbuds (one of the early ones) and enjoy them very much.  The purchase process was easy, and interacting with Wong was enjoyable as he seems like a nice guy and clearly has a passion for this hobby.  The number of models is overwhelming though, and the number and the price makes it impossible to go all Pokemon and catch 'em all (at least for me).  I do like to collect, so try to buy anything from Wilsound (which is at a collectible price point) and Cypherus Audio (they are pricey, but not too many models available and they are across the board excellent), but I can't afford to do that with the Blurs.


----------



## seanc6441

doggiemom said:


> Agreed.  I have one set of Blur earbuds (one of the early ones) and enjoy them very much.  The purchase process was easy, and interacting with Wong was enjoyable as he seems like a nice guy and clearly has a passion for this hobby.  The number of models is overwhelming though, and the number and the price makes it impossible to go all Pokemon and catch 'em all (at least for me).  I do like to collect, so try to buy anything from Wilsound (which is at a collectible price point) and Cypherus Audio (they are pricey, but not too many models available and they are across the board excellent), but I can't afford to do that with the Blurs.


Yes you can, just sell your Utopia


----------



## bhima

monks, emx500, and whatever you feel like. Unsure of its sound sig to begin with, or its soundstage size. is it on the warm/analog side, or more cold/neutral and faster side? does it punch above its weight?


----------



## rkw (Aug 24, 2018)

Is Wong Kuan Wae and Blur still active? The Facebook page previously posted in this thread seems to no longer exist: https://www.facebook.com/wkuanwae

Edit: He's on Instagram — https://www.instagram.com/hennagaijin_boleh7/


----------



## chaiyuta

rkw said:


> Is Wong Kuan Wae and Blur still active? The Facebook page previously posted in this thread seems to no longer exist: https://www.facebook.com/wkuanwae
> 
> Edit: He's on Instagram — https://www.instagram.com/hennagaijin_boleh7/





Spoiler: Sorry to hear that



Sorry to hear that. I stil can look up to his fb profile. I afriad you might act something that make he get annoyed and you are blocked.


----------



## DBaldock9

rkw said:


> Is Wong Kuan Wae and Blur still active? The Facebook page previously posted in this thread seems to no longer exist: https://www.facebook.com/wkuanwae
> 
> Edit: He's on Instagram — https://www.instagram.com/hennagaijin_boleh7/



I'm Facebook friends with Wong Kuan Wae, and that profile is still active & visible (but maybe only for his friends) - https://www.facebook.com/wkuanwae
If you join one of these Facebook Groups, you'll see that he's still there - "หูฟังคลับ ThaiHeadphoneClub",  "Earbuds Anonymous", "Walnut and Zishan Enthusiasts (WaZe)"


----------



## silverfishla (Aug 25, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> I have a pair of blur irdkwth edition...really great sound.



Does that mean “I really don’t know what the hell”?


----------



## seanc6441

silverfishla said:


> Does that mean “I really don’t know what the hell”?


Formatting got messed up, that was someone elses quoted message but somehow it appears as mine.

Never heard a blur bud myself.


----------



## blackberriesandthinkpads (Aug 25, 2018)

Hello fellow earbud enthusiasts.

Been dicking around with the Monk Plus for a about a week now and I'm determined to try and find an earbud to replace my over hear headphones. I'm a one headphone kind of guy and I like the convenience of buds. I may fail on my quest but I at least want to try.

What are considered the top tier earbuds right now? I'm googling a lot of the models in this thread and am finding that most are discontinued.

My current cans are X00 Ebony, and they are almost perfect, if only they had no sibilance. If I can get something close to that sound in an earbud I'd be a happy camper.

My X00 Ebony + Modi 2 Multibit + Magni 3 setup is good enough to be my endgame setup. However, after hearing the Monk Plus, I want to try and make my endgame setup small and portable.

Honestly if I could get Monk Plus sound with clarity I'd be happy.

Would like to stay low impedance for the times when I'm not using an amp. Zen 2.0 stood out to me but the impedance is no good.

Are Sennheiser MX 980 still a top contender compared to modern offerings?

Any ideas on where I should start/look?


----------



## ClieOS

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> Are Sennheiser MX 980 still a top contender compared to modern offerings?
> 
> Any ideas on where I should start/look?



MX980 has been discontinued for 6 yrs now. It was replaced by MX985 which is also discontinued for about 4 yrs now.

Here are a few ToTL earbuds for you to research that are still in the market and not very difficult to get: Moondrop Liebesleid, Shozy BK (or better yet, BK Limited), Simphonio SW-Dragon 2+ (aka SWD2+), Blox TM9, Rose Mojito (classical music only), K's Earphone Black Ling.


----------



## DBaldock9

ClieOS said:


> MX980 has been discontinued for 6 yrs now. It was replaced by MX985 which is also discontinued for about 4 yrs now.
> 
> Here are a few ToTL earbuds for you to research that are still in the market and not very difficult to get: Moondrop Liebesleid, Shozy BK (or better yet, BK Limited), Simphonio SW-Dragon 2+ (aka SWD2+), Blox TM9, Rose Mojito (classical music only), K's Earphone Black Ling.



Unfortunately, the Mojito seems to be out of stock, everywhere except one listing on Shopee.


----------



## blackberriesandthinkpads (Aug 25, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> MX980 has been discontinued for 6 yrs now. It was replaced by MX985 which is also discontinued for about 4 yrs now.
> 
> Here are a few ToTL earbuds for you to research that are still in the market and not very difficult to get: Moondrop Liebesleid, Shozy BK (or better yet, BK Limited), Simphonio SW-Dragon 2+ (aka SWD2+), Blox TM9, Rose Mojito (classical music only), K's Earphone Black Ling.



Thanks, I'm guessing ToTL means top of the line? And so it begins...

I know the MX980 are discontinued, but I may have found a NOS pair, wanted to know if they're still relevant?

Also, why classical only with the Rose Mojito? I listen to everything, also use my headphones for movies, shows and video games a lot too, probably more so than music.


----------



## jogawag (Aug 25, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> MX980 has been discontinued for 6 yrs now. It was replaced by MX985 which is also discontinued for about 4 yrs now.
> 
> Here are a few ToTL earbuds for you to research that are still in the market and not very difficult to get: Moondrop Liebesleid, Shozy BK (or better yet, BK Limited), Simphonio SW-Dragon 2+ (aka SWD2+), Blox TM9, Rose Mojito (classical music only), K's Earphone Black Ling.


Did K's 500, Cygnus LE, Rose Masya get down of "the champion level"?


----------



## 40760

The dragon has landed... how many hours of burn in would do these SWD2+ their best?


----------



## dhruvmeena96

I was searching blox tm7 and I discovered that it us a monk + with @slappypete mod and the plastic holes all open and then increased impedance to turn it darker yet mini LCD 

LoL.....

Almost all diy earphones have same driver until or unless they mention graphene and sort.

Monk+ with foam at back sounds like Vido and paper damper makes it sound like Faeal.

It all started with monk+. 

I auditioned Zen Black and all I was able to tell was a way mature tuning compared to Zen.

The specs were also sort of same, nearby dB....some have higher impedance but I cannot see the change on driver overall topology and diaphragm topology.

Diaphragm has the same pattern design on all mx500 diy as monk(original mx500 diaphragm didn't had any pattern, just the concavish lens type transparent diaphragm with coil attach at center).

They are just selling the tuning and nothing else impressive. I modded my monk+ smoke as @slappypete with 2 vents at driver open for some relaxation from extreme damping. Outshines zen and most of the earbuds.

Now I will source some sound damping 1mm foam and replace my blutak


----------



## Danneq

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> Thanks, I'm guessing ToTL means top of the line? And so it begins...
> 
> I know the MX980 are discontinued, but I may have found a NOS pair, wanted to know if they're still relevant?
> 
> Also, why classical only with the Rose Mojito? I listen to everything, also use my headphones for movies, shows and video games a lot too, probably more so than music.



MX980/985 are still good. I would say that they are champion level (if I go by ClieOS terminology), but they are nowadays outdone by many newer earbuds. I have owned MX980 and 985 and still own a pair of OMX980 (with ear hooks). I won't sell those for a while, but I rarely use them.

Chinese makers have really improved in the last 5-6 years.

Indonesia has got some great smaller earbud makers. I have only heard earbuds from Cypherus (my favorite maker the last 2-3 years), ABnormal, Bengkel Macro and De'mun and they are all great.

I would add anything from Cypherus to the list of ClieOs TOTL earbuds. Cypherus only makes TOTL earbuds that range in price from $200-400 with the rare custom made pair exceding $600. All of them are made in relatively limited batches. Currently Cypherus offers CampFred 2 ($199) and ZoomFred ($249) as well as White CampFred which is based on CampFred 1 but fine tuned and with better cable etc. I think that one is closer to $400 but only 5 or so pairs will be made. I think both CampFred 2 and ZoomFred will not exceed 100 pairs made. Each pair is made after order and the buyer can choose single ended or balanced connector and some other customizations.
Most of the small DIY makers use the same housing that the old Sennheiser MX400/500 earbuds about 15 years ago used. It might not be the best fit for everyone.

Rose Mojito is very detailed and revealing but highs are quite sharp. I sold my pair because of that. I listen to a lot of metal and rock and it doesn't work at all with those genres.


----------



## Danneq

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I was searching blox tm7 and I discovered that it us a monk + with @slappypete mod and the plastic holes all open and then increased impedance to turn it darker yet mini LCD
> 
> LoL.....
> 
> ...




Blox TM7 was released in 2012, about 4 years before VE started making earbuds...


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Aug 25, 2018)

Danneq said:


> Blox TM7 was released in 2012, about 4 years before VE started making earbuds...


Thanks...I correct myself...

But then blox started it

Ohhg just wait.mm

I m sure Monk is older than 2012

Dont know monk+

But veclan was turned into company later, monk was present on aliexpress etc. My dad bought it in 2010.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

And the best earbuds I have listened to were sony e262 and Sony e484.....they are pinnacle on my list.
If a chi fi can reach the stage of these, then that would be my last earbuds purchase.


----------



## Danneq (Aug 25, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Thanks...I correct myself...
> 
> But then blox started it
> 
> ...




Blox's first release was TM5. That must have been in 2010 or something. I started following Head fi around 2008/2009 and registered in 2010. Unfortunately I missed TM5 but bought TM7 in 2012.

I think Blox was the first smaller earbud maker that made earbuds using the old Sennheiser MX400/500 shell. At the time, around 2010 and earlier, there was also Yuin and Crossroad who used a smaller shell that is today called "Yuin shell". Today Shozy and also Simphonio uses it for their TOTL earbuds.

VE might have released the original Monk in 2015 or even 2014. They might have been active in the Chinese market only before that time. But I think that Monk was originally released internationally around 2015/2016. Monk sounded quite different from Monk+ and at first many people complained when Monk+ was released. I actually prefer Monk+ to the original Monk.

VE has done a great job with Monk and Monk+ to make people aware that earbuds can sound great and be cheap.

Edit:

I used to own Sony MDR E252, 282 and 484 as well as Aiwa HP V99. All of them are quite amazing and shows that TOTL earbuds could be made over 30 years ago.

But I have sold them. Many TOTL earbuds in 2018 can beat those old Sony and Aiwa earbuds in most areas.


----------



## jogawag (Aug 25, 2018)

Danneq said:


> Blox's first release was TM5. That must have been in 2010 or something. I started following Head fi around 2008/2009 and registered in 2010. Unfortunately I missed TM5 but bought TM7 in 2012.
> 
> I think Blox was the first smaller earbud maker that made earbuds using the old Sennheiser MX400/500 shell. At the time, around 2010 and earlier, there was also Yuin and Crossroad who used a smaller shell that is today called "Yuin shell". Today Shozy and also Simphonio uses it for their TOTL earbuds.
> 
> ...



Recently Earbuds called "Docomo Earbuds" has being become popular in Earbuds Anonymous etc. It was Earbuds developed by Docomo (actually Panasonic) in 2006, and that Shell was copied and used also by Yuin and Crossroad.
So, in the near future it may be called "Docomo shell" instead of "Yuin shell" and "PK shell".


----------



## ClieOS

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> T...
> I know the MX980 are discontinued, but I may have found a NOS pair, wanted to know if they're still relevant?
> 
> Also, why classical only with the Rose Mojito? I listen to everything, also use my headphones for movies, shows and video games a lot too, probably more so than music.



MX980/985 are still excellent earbuds, but as said by @Danneq, there are better option out there now. Also, I don't want to recommend NOS Sennheiser's top end earbuds because their cable are known to crack over time. You might get a NOS pair now but the cable could crack after couples of months and you won't have warranty to claim.

Mojito is a great earbuds, but the tuning really only works best with classical music. Even the maker is listing Mojito as a classical only earbud on his own Taobao store.



jogawag said:


> Did K's 500, Cygnus LE, Rose Masya get down of "the champion level"?



They are not. I just thought I'll suggest the absolute best of the best first so he'll have a place to start. Cypherus would have made my list as well but they are not the easiest to buy.


----------



## ClieOS

DBaldock9 said:


> Unfortunately, the Mojito seems to be out of stock, everywhere except one listing on Shopee.



Still available on Rose's Taobao store, so it is probably those resellers haven't restocked it yet.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

somebody try Blue Ever Blue model 328R......
it seems to me like the driver is effortlessly moving and creating scape and stage. didnt expected that HDSS will hit the earbud like a bus. i dont know how to explain that but it was a total enjoyment. i think it sounded better than YUIN PK3 to me....


----------



## mbwilson111

dhruvmeena96 said:


> somebody try Blue Ever Blue model 328R......
> it seems to me like the driver is effortlessly moving and creating scape and stage. didnt expected that HDSS will hit the earbud like a bus. i dont know how to explain that but it was a total enjoyment. i think it sounded better than YUIN PK3 to me....



You confuse me.  For months you have only spoken about iems... and it seem like you  have heard them all.  

You never mentioned even being interested in buds. Now, you suddenly seem to have heard all the buds as well.  Do you work in a shop?


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Aug 25, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> You confuse me.  For months you have only spoken about iems... and it seem like you  have heard them all.
> 
> You never mentioned even being interested in buds. Now, you suddenly seem to have heard all the buds as well.  Do you work in a shop?



lol......hahahaha

i am actually a diyer who was on opamp(Burson opamp) and DAC threads on Headfi. my first buds and actually the first thing to put in my ear was old Sharp MD. then i shifted to apple iphone 3g(not S) earbuds and my journey had samsung, sony e242 etc.

then i shifted to main gear headphones where i met @Slater on philips shl3300 mod thread. i bought HD800 and HDV800(this was 2years ago, i guess, i was in america and was working with sonion)

after that, i moved to japanese iem and got to know about ocharaku.(well i had sony ex1000)

after that i came back to india and got to kow about chinese invasion in audio world here.

and why do i get to audition all these buds so quickly is due to long network of connection of people(you actually need it to survive in india, every thing works on so called *shifarish*, or so called connections with higher up and corruption)

my buddy works in FEDEX as senior manager and he makes my delivery marked as urgent so i receive things in 2 to 6 days and for free.....

lol

by the way i was modifying AGDR CMOY with TX2575 z foil resistor(this is what i actually am, ask anything about amps, calculation of resistors etc to me and i will answer that in moment)


and by the way i am starting up my own Company(Got registered) "*Reference Labs*" and would be making IEM(Custom and Universal), AMPS, earbuds, DAPs etc... Saving up some money for investment.

So i need impression, FR(with hardware and calibration used) and review before i get the tuning done right.

@mbwilson111 i cleared all my family debt finally


please don't report me for my unfair delivery advantage....i will still get it quicker than Europeans and Americans because i live in India

And you see I am 2years older here.....call me sensei


----------



## caenlenfromOCN

I got the new Hifiman Bolt's a couple weeks ago, they are good for vocals only, comfort is not to shabby, overall for $10 you can't complain really. Bass is pretty junk though so stay away from any music that needs good bass. I use them as my Youtube IEM's for when I want to drown outside noise out and watch my favorite Youtubers without being distracted.

My favorite IEM's are still my Monoprice MP80's with 3 tuning nozzles, though I just use the default gunmetal tuning nozzle since I think it sounds best.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

caenlenfromOCN said:


> I got the new Hifiman Bolt's a couple weeks ago, they are good for vocals only, comfort is not to shabby, overall for $10 you can't complain really. Bass is pretty junk though so stay away from any music that needs good bass. I use them as my Youtube IEM's for when I want to drown outside noise out and watch my favorite Youtubers without being distracted.
> 
> My favorite IEM's are still my Monoprice MP80's with 3 tuning nozzles, though I just use the default gunmetal tuning nozzle since I think it sounds best.


This is for earbuds and not earphones bro


----------



## caenlenfromOCN

dhruvmeena96 said:


> This is for earbuds and not earphones bro



I didn't know there was a difference? I thought IEM's, earbuds, earphones, were same name for all of it?

edit: nm i see... like the Monks! i get it now, haha


----------



## dhruvmeena96

caenlenfromOCN said:


> I didn't know there was a difference? I thought IEM's, earbuds, earphones, were same name for all of it?
> 
> edit: nm i see... like the Monks! i get it now, haha


Earbuds sits on your ear, earphones sits inside your ear, iem is pro earphone 

Etc etc


----------



## caenlenfromOCN

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Earbuds sits on your ear, earphones sits inside your ear, iem is pro earphone
> 
> Etc etc



Do electrostatic/planar IEM's have a special name too, or just call them IEM's?


----------



## dhruvmeena96

caenlenfromOCN said:


> Do electrostatic/planar IEM's have a special name too, or just call them IEM's?


Planars and electrostatic will do(if you specific the name of product)


----------



## 40760

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Earbuds sits on your ear, earphones sits inside your ear, iem is pro earphone
> 
> Etc etc



Earbuds or In-Ears, all fall under "Earphones"...

In-Ears can be categorised into IEMS (Universal) or CIEMS (Custom)...

Pro or not, that depends on what it was designed for, and can come in any of the forms above...


----------



## dhruvmeena96

palestofwhite said:


> Earbuds or In-Ears, all fall under "Earphones"...
> 
> In-Ears can be categorised into IEMS (Universal) or CIEMS (Custom)...
> 
> Pro or not, that depends on what it was designed for, and can be in any form...


Where do you use earphones word commonly(I guess in ears) so to simplyfy his understanding.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Aug 25, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> And you see I am 2years older here.....call me sensei



Sounds like you have lived several lifetimes for someone born in 1996!

At some point you will have to register here as Member of the Trade.

...and no, I was not the one who reported you that time...


----------



## dhruvmeena96

mbwilson111 said:


> Sounds like you have lived several lifetimes for someone born in 1996!
> 
> At some point you will have to register here as Member of the Trade.
> 
> ...and no, I was not the one who reported you that time...


I was born in 1992, I just dont share actual info on social places....


----------



## mbwilson111

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I was born in 1992, I just dont share actual info on social places....



Well, that makes you almost ancient then.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

mbwilson111 said:


> Well, that makes you almost ancient then.


LoL.....

I even use Japanese name on FB to protect my privacy.

OK back to main topic

I have option between Faaeal Datura X, snow lotus 2.0and everything under 20$. Please tell me the best buds(I already have niceHCK graphene old metal cover black.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

ezekiel77 said:


> Hi guys, after hearing what the EM3 can do, I'm curious about the VE line. Wanted to go with the Monk. But I thought, since the pinnacle of earbud-dom is not too expensive compared to midfi/summitfi, I should probably just get the Zen 2.0. Correct me if I'm wrong, is the Black version just a Zen 2.0 with a better cable?


Black version actually sounds a little more extended than the zen. Its something with tuning making it more mature. I think that's a limited release specific tuning


----------



## mbwilson111

dhruvmeena96 said:


> LoL.....
> 
> I even use Japanese name on FB to protect my privacy.
> 
> ...



Just get everything then... you probably will in the end anyway.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

mbwilson111 said:


> Just get everything then... you probably will in the end anyway.


That would be 3600usd.....I think that can cause cancer to my wallet. I just added all the iem on my shopping cart and it went 3600usd

Just gibme ranking so I can get the top ones....no need for explanation


And by the way, why dont we vote like the KZ thread here.. Random voting system from the list..

And miss @mbwilson111 your recommendations rock(dont know why, you dont GiB reviews or impression, but all comes out sounding nice). Are you some sort of hidden expert who tries to be down to earth.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Aug 25, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> And by the way, why dont we vote like the KZ thread here.. Random voting system from the list..



I think a voting system is meaningless.  Do you trust voters... lol.



dhruvmeena96 said:


> Are you some sort of hidden expert who tries to be down to earth.



Yes  You are  more perceptive than I thought.

I am just a music lover who knows when my music sound good... and that can happen in a number of ways. Many of the artists I listen to are people I have seen perform live.  I know what their voices sound like.  I know what their guitars sound like.   I know what pianos and drums sound like.  I can't describe it... I just know.  I have also been to classical performances and musicals.

I have enjoyed full size hifi systems... and I have discovered and been thrilled by music coming from a far off AM radio station in the middle of the night on a transistor radio...a lifetime ago...


----------



## dhruvmeena96

@slappypete I dont know why he is soi


mbwilson111 said:


> I think a voting system is meaningless.  Do you trust voters... lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So you are a reincarnator, just like me

Those old black radios with huge spinning knobs and big plastic mesh cover on speaker which used to smell like wastage and used to creak from handle...

Cool


----------



## jogawag

dhruvmeena96 said:


> That would be 3600usd.....I think that can cause cancer to my wallet. I just added all the iem on my shopping cart and it went 3600usd
> 
> Just gibme ranking so I can get the top ones....no need for explanation
> 
> ...



https://goo.gl/gt1THD
It is Earbuds rating ranking about one year ago.
"Tier 5: under 20usd"
"Tier 4: under 50usd"
"Tier 3: under 100usd"
"Tier 2: under 200usd"
"Tier 1: 200usd or over"


----------



## dhruvmeena96

jogawag said:


> https://goo.gl/gt1THD
> It is Earbuds rating ranking about one year ago.
> "Tier 5: under 20usd"
> "Tier 4: under 50usd"
> ...


I think emx500 is winning 

Can somebody tell me differences between emx500 and emx500s


----------



## waynes world

dhruvmeena96 said:


> OK back to main topic
> 
> I have option between Faaeal Datura X, snow lotus 2.0and everything under 20$. Please tell me the best buds(I already have niceHCK graphene old metal cover black.





dhruvmeena96 said:


> That would be 3600usd.....I think that can cause cancer to my wallet. I just added all the iem on my shopping cart and it went 3600usd
> Just gibme ranking so I can get the top ones....no need for explanation



I'm glad I was pointed towards the Svara L (32ohm). They are more than $20, but I have been so satisfied with them that they have cured my itch and have saved me another $3600 in $20 purchases, which is where I was headed lol.


----------



## jogawag

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I think emx500 is winning
> 
> Can somebody tell me differences between emx500 and emx500s


EMX500s is a new version of EMX500.
I hear that the bass is getting better in the EMX500s, but I am satisfied with the EMX500.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Aug 25, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> @slappypete I dont know why he is soi
> 
> So you are a reincarnator, just like me
> 
> ...



No I meant my own lifetime.. which is long...

my old transitor radio was blue and small

My point was just that music has always been my passion, regardless of equipment.


----------



## jant71

Okay Yincrow RW-9 vs. Svara L 32Ohm comparison?


----------



## dhruvmeena96

I already have a svara L, but the bassier 60ohm which I sold recently on old. Svara L 32ohm is 110usd which is out of budget right now..

If it is in 50$ from another seller on aliexpress, please share the link


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Svara L is now obsolete....Svara pro Dual driver is here


----------



## mbwilson111

Just because there is something new does not necessarily make the earlier version obsolete.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

mbwilson111 said:


> Just because there is something new does not necessarily make the earlier version obsolete.


I am sorry.....it is out of stock and with increased price
Svara L mean to say


----------



## rkw

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> My current cans are X00 Ebony, and they are almost perfect, if only they had no sibilance. If I can get something close to that sound in an earbud I'd be a happy camper.


Others have given you good suggestions, but I wanted to mention that if you are a basshead, no earbud will come close to the bass of the TH-X00 (famous for its bass even among full size headphones).


----------



## waynes world (Aug 25, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Svara L is now obsolete....Svara pro Dual driver is here



This is where I got mine. They are on sale at the moment for US $49.68. Edit: they are on sale in 2 days.

The fact that there is a newer model doesn't matter much to me. All that would matter is if they sound better to my ears or not (maybe they do, maybe they don't).


----------



## HungryPanda

Just put a balanced 4.4mm cable on my Svara L's into the iBasso DX200 with amp8. If the pro can get better than this I would be amazed


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> Just put a balanced 4.4mm cable on my Svara L's into the iBasso DX200 with amp8. If the pro can get better than this I would be amazed



Awesome! If you don't mind me asking, which cable do you have?


----------



## HungryPanda

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32830990606.html


----------



## acygni

Nice. Thanks for the post.


----------



## Narayan23

mbwilson111 said:


> No I meant my own lifetime.. which is long...
> 
> my old transitor radio was blue and small
> 
> My point was just that *music has always been my passion*, regardless of equipment.



My sentiment exactly, although listening once to an unspeakable noise that proved to be my uncle Carlos singing in the shower, convinced me that the source does matter.


----------



## blackberriesandthinkpads (Aug 25, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> MX980/985 are still excellent earbuds, but as said by @Danneq, there are better option out there now. Also, I don't want to recommend NOS Sennheiser's top end earbuds because their cable are known to crack over time. You might get a NOS pair now but the cable could crack after couples of months and you won't have warranty to claim.
> 
> Mojito is a great earbuds, but the tuning really only works best with classical music. Even the maker is listing Mojito as a classical only earbud on his own Taobao store.
> 
> Cypherus would have made my list as well but they are not the easiest to buy.





Danneq said:


> MX980/985 are still good. I would say that they are champion level (if I go by ClieOS terminology), but they are nowadays outdone by many newer earbuds. I have owned MX980 and 985 and still own a pair of OMX980 (with ear hooks). I won't sell those for a while, but I rarely use them.
> 
> Chinese makers have really improved in the last 5-6 years.
> 
> ...



Still researching all the replies, thank you. I'll be passing on the MX980, especially at the asking price. What had initially sparked my interest in them was the low impedance and "champion level" quality. I see low impedance high quality buds are a common thing now. Before this thread I only knew of the Zen 2.0. As I said earlier I'm a one headphone kind of guy so low impedance is important for when I don't have an amp or powerful source.

The Mojito is probably not what I want then, since I'm looking for an all-rounder.

I'm a rather patient guy, I'll wait for good stuff. How does one even purchase Cypherus? Their website is of no help.

It seems shell size/shape fitment is rather important for buds. What I'm thinking of doing then is to order either just the shells or really cheap buds with the shells that TOTL buds use, to see what fits my ear before I go dropping $500 on buds. Honestly, I think I'm rather small and even the Monk Plus is probably too large for me.

So what shells are being used by these top top TOTL buds?


Quick tangent while I'm here.

I recently ordered a NOS DX90 for about $400 USD (with warranty). Yes I know I'm paying for old tech, but I really like the simplicity and size of the player, hate the new android based slow crap. I really like simple, and buttons.

I liked the idea that there are so many firmware versions with differing sound signatures, in my head this means for sure I'll find a sound I like with the player.

Have yet to even try it, long story, but my return window is running out in a bit. Will I be bottle necking my modern TOtL earbud setup with this 4 year old DAP?

Keep in mind I have almost zero interest in balanced buds, as I said, I like simple. Unless there are HUGE gains to be had by going balanced.

Also keep in mind around the +-$500 USD mark is what I'd pay for a DAP, and I don't mind shopping used and/or discontinued. Though shiny new things are nice... (the used DX90s on ebay were so filthy I couldn't do it, not to mention the hardware faults with it, a warranty seemed necessary).


----------



## mbwilson111

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> I'm looking for an all-rounder.



are you wanting to spend top of the line prices? there are so many excellent budget options... you would be surprised.


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32830990606.html



Thanks. I see that it is an "over ears" design (which I prefer with the Svara's). Does that cable make the signature brighter? (something I would not prefer).


----------



## mbwilson111

What, if any, of your earbuds do some of you prefer without foams?


----------



## Danneq

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> Still researching all the replies, thank you. I'll be passing on the MX980, especially at the asking price. What had initially sparked my interest in them was the low impedance and "champion level" quality. I see low impedance high quality buds are a common thing now. Before this thread I only knew of the Zen 2.0. As I said earlier I'm a one headphone kind of guy so low impedance is important for when I don't have an amp or powerful source.
> 
> The Mojito is probably not what I want then, since I'm looking for an all-rounder.
> 
> ...



Cypherus and a few other smaller DIY earbud makers use MX500 shells just like VE uses Monk+ and their other earbuds. Shozy BK and Simphonio Dragon 2+ uses a smaller type of shells. Many of the Chinese makers have customized shells and fit may range from great to awful.

You can get a pair of Monk+ and see how you like that type of shell.

I do not think the DX90 will give you any problems. I have a small collection of vintage MP3 players with the oldest one, iRiver H140 being released in 2004. 
I'm thinking of selling my older MP3 players to focus on my 3 newer ones (iBasso RP10, Questyle QP1R and Onkyo DP S1). The iBasso is around 5 years and still sounds great. The only negative thing is that it uses Android 2.3 which feels very slow and clumpsy. Older MP3 players can be easier to use than that. Especially if they've got Rockbox installed.

All the TOTL earbuds that ClieOS listed are low impedance, except for Black Ling (I think). Cypherus only makes earbuds with impedance under 100 ohm.


----------



## blackberriesandthinkpads (Aug 25, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> are you wanting to spend top of the line prices? there are so many excellent budget options... you would be surprised.



Yes, since this is my end game setup. I'm not the type of person that needs to have the absolute best, for example My X00 Ebony would be my endgame if I decided to stay with over ear cans, it has it's faults but it's good enough to keep me from longing for more.

But since I can get TOTL buds for about the most I'd spend on a piece of gear (+- $500 USD), I see no reason not to.

I'll be figuring out my complete end game setup in the next few weeks, hopefully it revolves around an earbud. I love my X00 Ebony, but if I can get sound that good or greater in a bud that'd be perfect. So I'll be figuring out my DAC/AMP (USB), DAP, and buds, they all need to work together. If I can combine the DAC/AMP and DAP into one product that would be nice, but it seems no-one has implemented this all that well yet.


----------



## DAndrew

Danneq said:


> Blur seems interesting, but it's difficult to get an overview of the different Blur models. I could be interested in something TOTL and below 70 ohm from Blur. I used to own some high impedance earbuds but then decided to only go low impedance so I sold them all and also my portable amps.



Well there are a lot of models indeed , Personally I have a 300 ohm Blur but it doesnt need a lot of power and play very good out of my S7. Most neutral bud I have heard, close to my full sized Sennheiser


----------



## DAndrew

Danneq said:


> Cypherus and a few other smaller DIY earbud makers use MX500 shells just like VE uses Monk+ and their other earbuds. Shozy BK and Simphonio Dragon 2+ uses a smaller type of shells. Many of the Chinese makers have customized shells and fit may range from great to awful.
> 
> You can get a pair of Monk+ and see how you like that type of shell.
> 
> ...



Let me know if you are going to sell something interesting


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> Yes you can, just sell your Utopia


Oh, hell no!


----------



## doggiemom

Bassheads rejoice.........  I received the "VUNBUD" this week, and am blown away.  These $47 buds have the best bass I have heard from an earbud, except maybe the ZoomFred which is not in the same price range.  The quantity and thumpy-ness of the bass is equivalent to the K's Samsara, but it is cleaner and more detailed.  Because of the bass emphasis, the overall tonality is a tad dark, but the treble is very accurate without a hint of sibilance; high hat cymbals are crisp, and it is possible to hear the pluck of individual strings on an acoustic guitar.

The "VUNBUD" is Rholupat's mod of Elibuds' Sabia V6.  The VUNBUD has a detachable VJC cable with MMCX connectors and an upgraded plug.  I'm curious to try these out with a balanced cable, but the stock cable is pretty impressive.


----------



## mochill

TM9 in West Palm Beach, very close to me now. Should have it by Monday:-D


----------



## bavinck (Aug 25, 2018)

mochill said:


> TM9 in West Palm Beach, very close to me now. Should have it by Monday:-D


Every minute of every day I wonder, "has mochill got his TM9 yet??"

I am happy you are excited bro. And boy, are you ever excited


----------



## mochill

Definitely excited, been waiting more than two weeks now


----------



## Makahl

mochill said:


> Definitely excited, been waiting more than two weeks now



That's the problem of not having friends on Fedex...


----------



## chinmie

doggiemom said:


> Bassheads rejoice.........  I received the "VUNBUD" this week, and am blown away.  These $47 buds have the best bass I have heard from an earbud, except maybe the ZoomFred which is not in the same price range.  The quantity and thumpy-ness of the bass is equivalent to the K's Samsara, but it is cleaner and more detailed.  Because of the bass emphasis, the overall tonality is a tad dark, but the treble is very accurate without a hint of sibilance; high hat cymbals are crisp, and it is possible to hear the pluck of individual strings on an acoustic guitar.
> 
> The "VUNBUD" is Rholupat's mod of Elibuds' Sabia V6.  The VUNBUD has a detachable VJC cable with MMCX connectors and an upgraded plug.  I'm curious to try these out with a balanced cable, but the stock cable is pretty impressive.



that VJC cable is nice. it's thick but really soft


----------



## chinmie

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Svara L is now obsolete....Svara pro Dual driver is here



i didn't find anything stating that it has dual drivers? also isn't this already been reviewed by @ClieOS


----------



## bavinck

Willsound in the house
Top is mk300+
Bottom is pk16
Getting a very good bang for buck with these buds. Like very good.


----------



## ClieOS

chinmie said:


> i didn't find anything stating that it has dual drivers? also isn't this already been reviewed by @ClieOS



Definitely no dual driver in Svara series. My Svara Pro is the early version. The current version is said to have been retuned and improved.


----------



## Danneq

mochill said:


> Definitely excited, been waiting more than two weeks now



I'll probably have to wait 2+ weeks for my TM9 AFTER they have reached Swedish customs...


----------



## dhruvmeena96

OK...I was pretty cloudy or not clear when I was telling my preferences about earbuds...

@mbwilson111 I won't be buying all(I dont have money and space to keep and most of the diy looks same, which would be confusing too)

I listen to Korean, Japanese classic ,jpop, k-pop, classical songs, folk and most of the time symphonies by some of the greatest composer like zubin mehta, valery gregiev Marin alsop, Beethoven etc ...

What I need is timbre(representation perfect), soundstaging with precise location and space. Bass boost is welcome but it shouldn't distort things. Same with treble, it shouldn't be shrieky and splashy, it can be boosted though.

Budget is 20$ and can extend up to 25$(not more than that, I ain't rich, just a 64audio u18t guy....lol....I am nearing bankrupt right now)

I have monk ex pack so a diy of mx500 is more welcome but not necessary....

For me, sound has a greater preference....


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Heavenly sounds gave me this



This may help you all


----------



## Narayan23

mbwilson111 said:


> What, if any, of your earbuds do some of you prefer without foams?



None to be honest, I think foams smooth things out and add a bit of comfort and stability in the ear, aswell as bass, all of which I welcome with the buds I have. If I had to choose, then I would opt for the Qian 39 since they´re tiny and comfortable.

I think foam rolling is a must if you want to extract the best sound from your buds, I currently only delve in VE Thin foams, Heigi Donuts and the thicker foams that come with each bud, but I´m curious about the multi - hole foams Sean and others have posted about here.


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> What, if any, of your earbuds do some of you prefer without foams?



Zen 2, and an old early Willsound MK1 that i sold long ago and recently repurchase


----------



## mbwilson111

Narayan23 said:


> None to be honest, I think foams smooth things out and add a bit of comfort and stability in the ear, aswell as bass, all of which I welcome with the buds I have. If I had to choose, then I would opt for the Qian 39 since they´re tiny and comfortable.
> 
> I think foam rolling is a must if you want to extract the best sound from your buds, I currently only delve in VE Thin foams, Heigi Donuts and the thicker foams that come with each bud, but I´m curious about the multi - hole foams Sean and others have posted about here.



I do agree with what you said most of the time... although I cannot use donuts... they just shift every which way when I am putting them in.  Plus they are impossible for me to put on in the first place so I have to ask for help.  Regular foams are difficult enough for me.  I have spent as long as 20 minutes putting a set on a pair.

At the moment I have two buds that I am using without foams.  My Blur Black Panther (uses a Docomo long stem shell)  and my Sony Ericsson HPM-64(recabled by Hungry Panda)...not sure foams will fit on it but it is very stable as it is and sounds surprisingly good.  Found out about these vintage buds on Earbuds Anonymous.  Recabling is mandatory... the stock cable only works with the Sony Ericsson phone.

Maybe I will try foams on my Black Panther at some point.  What do other owners use with that one?



chinmie said:


> Zen 2, and an old early Willsound MK1 that i sold long ago and recently repurchase



I have heard that Lee himself recommends using the Zen with no foams.  I have a Zen Lite but that is different.  I have foams on it.


----------



## Matarro

mbwilson111 said:


> I have heard that Lee himself recommends using the Zen with no foams.  I have a Zen Lite but that is different.  I have foams on it.



How would you describe Zen Lite? What type of music do you like it for? I really like the fit and shape of my Qian39 so if I could get a bud with the same shell but more clarity and still decent bass it would be nice.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

i think i should make my own earbuds(good stating point due to availability of material)

but where do i source a really good driver???

@slappypete @Slater @ClieOS @CoiL and everyone
(miss hidden expert @mbwilson111 )

help me and guide me


-i would be going for MX500 shell(3D printed carbon fiber)
-MMCX ready
-Air release port like AIWA v99(actually i was drawing a design and i realised that mx500 has one more vent near the cable entry point, i can do slappypete mod with one hole open(ZEN v1 mod by @slappypete ) and attach a plastic tube which goes from this opening near cable entry of iem), it will fix the bass issue with @slappypete VE Monk+ mod and can increase bass response without muddying mids.

@audionab i think earbud business is even crazier than the iem one....

i will fix your RFNF iem.....would you be helping me on this one.


----------



## bhima

dhruvmeena96 said:


> i think i should make my own earbuds(good stating point due to availability of material)
> 
> but where do i source a really good driver???
> 
> ...



If you find some biocellulose drivers, I'd be interested in buying a set


----------



## waynes world

doggiemom said:


> Bassheads rejoice.........  I received the "VUNBUD" this week, and am blown away.  These $47 buds have the best bass I have heard from an earbud, except maybe the ZoomFred which is not in the same price range.  The quantity and thumpy-ness of the bass is equivalent to the K's Samsara, but it is cleaner and more detailed.  Because of the bass emphasis, the overall tonality is a tad dark, but the treble is very accurate without a hint of sibilance; high hat cymbals are crisp, and it is possible to hear the pluck of individual strings on an acoustic guitar.
> 
> The "VUNBUD" is Rholupat's mod of Elibuds' Sabia V6.  The VUNBUD has a detachable VJC cable with MMCX connectors and an upgraded plug.  I'm curious to try these out with a balanced cable, but the stock cable is pretty impressive.



doggiemom, doggiemom, doggiemom. I just wrote that my itch was cured, and here you are, getting me itchy again 

Please do not provide a link so that I get even more tempted. Ah, forget that... Link please!


----------



## mbwilson111

Matarro said:


> How would you describe Zen Lite? What type of music do you like it for? I really like the fit and shape of my Qian39 so if I could get a bud with the same shell but more clarity and still decent bass it would be nice.



After you posted that I decided to listen with them.  They are high impedance... 300 ohm... so they are meant to be used with an amp.  I have them hooked to my desktop dac/amp using Foobar2000 to play Flac albums stored on my PC.  All I can say at the moment is that I feel like I have invisible headphones on  I listen to all types of music.  I don't choose certain buds for specific music.. I just expect to listen to what I want with any of them.  

You used to be able to get them paired with an amp on the VE site.  Now you have to pay almost as much to just buy the bud.  I did not buy the bud/amp combo because I have a few amps already.  I also did not buy them alone for high retail price.   I bought mine (slightly) used from another headfi member who had a spare.  I am very happy with them especially for the deal I got.  I probably would not have them otherwise.

The Zen LL is lower impedance (same shell and cable) but I do not see it being offered right now.  Buying from VE can be complicated... but interesting.

Others might have some better less expensive ideas for you.


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> doggiemom, doggiemom, doggiemom. I just wrote that my itch was cured, and here you are, getting me itchy again
> 
> Please do not provide a link so that I get even more tempted. Ah, forget that... Link please!



You are hopeless....lol.


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Aug 26, 2018)

bhima said:


> If you find some biocellulose drivers, I'd be interested in buying a set


I found yuin pk1 driver pair for 30$ with all specs to be same


http://s.aliexpress.com/bMBnQNjy?


----------



## DAndrew

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I found yuin pk1 driver pair for 30$ with all specs to be same
> 
> 
> http://s.aliexpress.com/bMBnQNjy?



pk1 ( and even in your link ) did not have a  biocellulose driver...you linking that just shows how clueless you are, you can see from the pictures its just film and not biocellulose


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> You are hopeless....lol.



I resemble that remark!


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Nov 9, 2019)

DAndrew said:


> pk1 ( and even in your link ) did not have a  biocellulose driver...you linking that just shows how clueless you are, you can see from the pictures its just film and not biocellulose


I never said pk1 was biocellulose....I just tagged him because he was interested

Dammit

bro chilll, I know what I am doing..

Yuin pk1 was a polyestrene reinforced with micro strand ccaw voice coil with 160ohm average compensated impedance at 1.1kHz..

And 0.08% profiled distortion....they mention 150ohm +/-20ohm at 1kHz with 0.1% distortion.

And think before you mention somebody clueless.

And if you really dont believe me the .you can ask anybody with instruments to check the measurement...

I think there would be 10% error of chance, not more than that, I can guarantee you that


----------



## DAndrew

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I never said pk1 was biocellulose....I just tagged him because he was interested
> 
> Dammit
> 
> ...



I honestly doubt you know what you are doing, he only had one "spec" he was interested, the driver being biocelullose, and you said you found something with the same "spec". I have seen your replies in the thread and they are all exaggerated. Do w/e you want but stop spreading misinformation.


----------



## mbwilson111

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I never said pk1 was biocellulose....I just tagged him because he was interested
> 
> Dammit
> 
> ...



I think you are unaware that if you come into a thread and suddenly become a self proclaimed expert, it puts people off.


----------



## DAndrew

mbwilson111 said:


> I think you are unaware that if you come into a thread and suddenly become a self proclaimed expert, it puts people off.



It would be fine if he actually knew what he was talking about. But mistaking film for biocellulose? That just shows how much of an "expert" he is


----------



## doggiemom

waynes world said:


> doggiemom, doggiemom, doggiemom. I just wrote that my itch was cured, and here you are, getting me itchy again
> 
> Please do not provide a link so that I get even more tempted. Ah, forget that... Link please!


Ha ha, this group is so dysfunctional.    Here you go:  http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone/vunbud.html


----------



## dhruvmeena96

DAndrew said:


> It would be fine if he actually knew what he was talking about. But mistaking film for biocellulose? That just shows how much of an "expert" he is


I thought he was interested in project so I just told him I found pk1 drivers on Ali


Nothing more and nothing less

Bro.....OK, I liked lyra....but I never over exaggerated it.. I just said it does things right for me..

I did over exaggerated niceHCK graphene because I liked it

And when he said that he is interested if I have biocellulose, I just told him I found yuin pk2 drivers....that's all

I never in any post said yuin pk1 was biocellulose

Stop your wild interpretation of things...


----------



## chinmie

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I never said pk1 was biocellulose....I just tagged him because he was interested
> 
> Dammit
> 
> ...



I'm pretty sure @DAndrew is not the only one mislead by your post. it's good if you say you have knowledge about it, all that is left now is to master "the art of communicating properly so people don't scratch their heads an take you the wrong way"

after that you're golden


----------



## dhruvmeena96

chinmie said:


> I'm pretty sure @DAndrew is not the only one mislead by your post. it's good if you say you have knowledge about it, all that is left now is to master "the art of communicating properly so people don't scratch their heads an take you the wrong way"
> 
> after that you're golden


Agreed, my fault...

But he should have asked me instead of launching his anger... I cleared his doubt and then he thinks that I think film is biocellulose


----------



## DAndrew

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I thought he was interested in project so I just told him I found pk1 drivers on Ali
> 
> 
> Nothing more and nothing less
> ...



It feels like I am talking with a wall, how can you misinterpret a single sentence? He asked for biocellulose drivers and you replied with a random film driver...how is that what he asked?


----------



## DAndrew

chinmie said:


> I'm pretty sure @DAndrew is not the only one mislead by your post. it's good if you say you have knowledge about it, all that is left now is to master "the art of communicating properly so people don't scratch their heads an take you the wrong way"
> 
> after that you're golden



Its not about the art of communicating properly anymore, he just randomly spammed a link with a random driver that had nothing related to what the other guy asked for.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

DAndrew said:


> It feels like I am talking with a wall, how can you misinterpret a single sentence? He asked for biocellulose drivers and you replied with a random film driver...how is that what he asked?


I cleared it after you comment....that should have the end of the story...dont drag it...

Share something valuable
Ask something
Learn something


Dont waste time on something trivial

I admit it was my fault

And I know difference between biocellulose and film

Thanks for mentioning my mistake


----------



## dhruvmeena96

DAndrew said:


> Its not about the art of communicating properly anymore, he just randomly spammed a link with a random driver that had nothing related to what the other guy asked for.


I thought he would be interested in so called yuin drivers because I was not able to find bio celluloses


----------



## dhruvmeena96

By the way @DAndrew do you know where can I get 15.4mm cellulose driver

I found a dual circuit graphene (HF and lf) driver that fits in mx500 shell


----------



## DAndrew

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I cleared it after you comment....that should have the end of the story...dont drag it...
> 
> Share something valuable
> Ask something
> ...



"*dont drag it*" 

Are you seriously saying this? Look at how you are spamming this thread....

"*Dont waste time on something trivial*"

We are talking about earbuds , and in this case, earbud drivers. I dont think its trivial



dhruvmeena96 said:


> By the way @DAndrew do you know where can I get 15.4mm cellulose driver
> 
> I found a dual circuit graphene (HF and lf) driver that fits in mx500 shell



Yeah I know how to get biocellulose drivers


----------



## waynes world

doggiemom said:


> Ha ha, this group is so dysfunctional.    Here you go:  http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone/vunbud.html



Sounds like vun!


----------



## Matarro

mbwilson111 said:


> After you posted that I decided to listen with them.  They are high impedance... 300 ohm... so they are meant to be used with an amp.  I have them hooked to my desktop dac/amp using Foobar2000 to play Flac albums stored on my PC.  All I can say at the moment is that I feel like I have invisible headphones on  I listen to all types of music.  I don't choose certain buds for specific music.. I just expect to listen to what I want with any of them.
> 
> You used to be able to get them paired with an amp on the VE site.  Now you have to pay almost as much to just buy the bud.  I did not buy the bud/amp combo because I have a few amps already.  I also did not buy them alone for high retail price.   I bought mine (slightly) used from another headfi member who had a spare.  I am very happy with them especially for the deal I got.  I probably would not have them otherwise.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the input, it's hard to find any reviews on these. I'd be using them mostly with my ES100 but I think it will be able to drive them well enough.


----------



## mbwilson111

Matarro said:


> Thanks for the input, it's hard to find any reviews on these. I'd be using them mostly with my ES100 but I think it will be able to drive them well enough.



Are you willing to pay $148?  at that price there are so many choices.


----------



## fairx

mbwilson111 said:


> Maybe I will try foams on my Black Panther at some point.  What do other owners use with that one?
> 
> .


 I tried my thinnest foam with multiple hole (I use solder tips to burn the hole). Nope still bloat the bass a little. Naked so far for docomo. 

I suspect docomo doesn't like seal. Maybe different ear hears differently but my all my friend a agree docomo best sound when naked.


----------



## doggiemom

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I thought he would be interested in so called yuin drivers because I was not able to find bio celluloses


----------



## kw8910

doggiemom said:


>


now I got this song stuck in my head


----------



## bhima

Just got these delivered... on a Sunday too!










I haven't listened to them, but they are comfortable. MUCH more comfortable than the VE Monks+. Will report back after burn in/kids go to bed so I can do a more thorough comparison with my gear.


----------



## Lothar101

NiceHCK PK2 or NiceHCK Graphene....or something else for a $20 earbud? Music types will be Pop, Rock, Blues and Rhythm & Blues with maybe some Folk thrown in.


----------



## silverfishla

bhima said:


> Just got these delivered... on a Sunday too!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh good!  Would love to hear what you think.  I’ve got a pair coming my way.  And how’s the build quality?  Looks sharp.


----------



## bhima

silverfishla said:


> Oh good!  Would love to hear what you think.  I’ve got a pair coming my way.  And how’s the build quality?  Looks sharp.


The build is nice, especially for $18 earbuds. The actual metal shells feel very heavy duty. Hopefully they sound as good as they look!


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm listening to my Datura-X right now and they sound very good


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> I'm listening to my Datura-X right now and they sound very good



Sounds like the name of a Japanese Punk Rock band...


----------



## mochill

Definitely getting the TM9 tommorow:-D, it has arrived at my post office


----------



## toear

Anyone know where to find a 500ohm Samsara? I'm trying to snag one during the upcoming sale...

Or... Would anyone recommend the K's K600 instead?

Much appreciated!


----------



## wskl

dhruvmeena96 said:


> i think i should make my own earbuds(good stating point due to availability of material)
> 
> but where do i source a really good driver???
> 
> ...



I think you will get more helpful replies from the "DIY earbud" thread.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/


----------



## bhima

Initial thoughts on Datura-X (settled on the donut foams, as the included foams enhanced a mid-bass/lower midrange resonance and veil): 
Much more extended bass than the Monks (which are sort of bass one note), midrange seems to be more agile with faster decay and less mid-bass resonance, highs are pretty well extended for an earbud, though there is a peak in the 2k-4k range that can range from slightly annoying to downright frustrating depending on the recording. Soundstage seems more intimate than the monks, which I think has to do with how much more of an open back the Monks are. I'm not sure if I'm hearing more space, or if note decay is just more organic on the Monks.

Regardless, so far they are overall a few steps ahead in most areas compared to the Monks. Will report back with a more comprehensive review after I burn them in for at least 20 hours.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

wskl said:


> I think you will get more helpful replies from the "DIY earbud" thread.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/


Thanks


----------



## chinmie

bhima said:


> Initial thoughts on Datura-X (settled on the donut foams, as the included foams enhanced a mid-bass/lower midrange resonance and veil):
> Much more extended bass than the Monks (which are sort of bass one note), midrange seems to be more agile with faster decay and less mid-bass resonance, highs are pretty well extended for an earbud, though there is a peak in the 2k-4k range that can range from slightly annoying to downright frustrating depending on the recording. Soundstage seems more intimate than the monks, which I think has to do with how much more of an open back the Monks are. I'm not sure if I'm hearing more space, or if note decay is just more organic on the Monks.
> 
> Regardless, so far they are overall a few steps ahead in most areas compared to the Monks. Will report back with a more comprehensive review after I burn them in for at least 20 hours.



give it a few hours, the bass will settle down. OOTB it is a bit bloated on midbass, but it lessen quite a bit afterwards (at least on my unit). to me this sounded similar to Auglamour RX1, intimate soundstage but with bigger perceived room size, warm-ish balanced sound, but with bigger bass and less forward mid than the RX. I'm currently using thin foams, but i think it's going to sound good with thick donuts.. will try it out later


----------



## LukeVivolo

Are the Blox TM9s up for sale? It seems that their website has not been updated in a very long time.


----------



## bavinck

This thread needs more love. Been a tough day I see.


----------



## theoutsider

DBaldock9 said:


> Sounds like the name of a Japanese Punk Rock band...


----------



## golov17




----------



## rkw

LukeVivolo said:


> Are the Blox TM9s up for sale? It seems that their website has not been updated in a very long time.


Yes, several members have purchased and received the TM9 already. Information about the TM9 has been very informal through word of mouth and posting on this thread. Contact Blox by e-mail, sale@bloxearphone.com. Price is $279, payable with Paypal.


----------



## 40760

So my VE package finally got delivered today after sitting at the post office over last weekend.
I decided to keep the ZOE and 102ssc cable and only unbox them this Saturday as a birthday gift to myself.

I'm quite surprised that a ZEN LL and  Monk Plus were bundled in for free as well... So I'm now using the ZEN LL as a sneak preview.
At about the same impedance as the Asura 2.0s, these are really amazing and great sounding. It's a pleasant surprise!


----------



## capnjack

palestofwhite said:


> So my VE package finally got delivered today after sitting at the post office over last weekend.
> I decided to keep the ZOE and 102ssc cable and only unbox them this Saturday as a birthday gift to myself.
> 
> I'm quite surprised that a ZEN LL and  Monk Plus were bundled in for free as well... So I'm now using the ZEN LL as a sneak preview.
> At about the same impedance as the Asura 2.0s, these are really amazing and great sounding. It's a pleasant surprise!



Zen LL for free is an incredible deal, they sound absolutely brilliant with all my balanced sources


----------



## 40760

capnjack said:


> Zen LL for free is an incredible deal, they sound absolutely brilliant with all my balanced sources



I don't own any balanced source as of yet, so my current purchases are all in SE except for the SWD2+. Perhaps my next DAP purchase will be one capable of doing balanced 2.5mm...

Anyway, I don't know how they did it with the ZEN LL. It's really quite amazing for what it is, so much so I feel they should sell it as product on its own. Much better than the Asura 2.0s that I've had for close to a year. I'm already looking forward to move on to the ZOE this weekend...


----------



## ValSilva

bavinck said:


> This thread needs more love. Been a tough day I see.


----------



## Razorbud

Hey guys, I believe the toneking TO400 is on sale at aliexpress now. Is this a good buy?


----------



## mika91 (Aug 27, 2018)

Hi,
I received my EBX two days ago, and after a couple of listening hours, I'm quite impressed with them!
I can't compare to others earbuds, but they sound as least as good as my previous IEM Massdrop PX.
They have the exact quantity and quality of bass I expected for: not tested on electronic music, but for classical, jazz, and rock it's ok.

The only drawback is the EBX are quite big, and not fit/stay in my ears as well as my old 3$ sony earbuds (I can jog without loosing them)
So i'd like to find new tips, and if possible with Bose StayHear form factor
The closest thing I've found is this. But I'm not sure it would be compatible and well designed.
The other solution is to use only "earbud wing".

Any suggestion?


----------



## RobinFood

mika91 said:


> Hi,
> I received my EBX two days ago, and after a couple of listening hours, I'm quite impressed with them!
> I can't compare to others earbuds, but they sound as least as good as my previous IEM Massdrop PX.
> They have the exact quantity and quality of bass I expected for: not tested on electronic music, but for classical, jazz, and rock it's ok.
> ...



I think the first two options you showed are more than likely to negatively affect the sound.
If the earbud wing works for you and fits the bud, that's a decent idea. I have never tried them but always thought they looked uncomfortable.

Option 4 would be to wear them over your ear. I think they are actually designed to be worn that way, looking at some model pictures.
If you want to get something to make it easier to wear over ear you can also get something like this ...

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/Earp...b9d2-4791-8cda-8187608ad133&priceBeautifyAB=0

I've used them before, and they will work fine to keep them in place, but they do take some fiddling to get the right length.


----------



## HungryPanda

Razorbud said:


> Hey guys, I believe the toneking TO400 is on sale at aliexpress now. Is this a good buy?


 Toneking TO400 is an excellent sounding, well built earbud. Needs a touch of power as it is 400 ohm


----------



## seanc6441

Little mini sale on aliexpress. I suggest using a price tracker extension (on chrome) though to see what the prices have been over the last month. Some sellers have raised prices before the sale to trick people...


----------



## ShabtabQ

Someone posted "I've seen that movie too by Elton John" I really liked this music, I want to know what everybody is listening on their earbuds.


----------



## HungryPanda

Datura-X


----------



## groucho69




----------



## groucho69




----------



## mochill

:-D the TM9 is here, the legend continuesB-)


----------



## mochill

TM9 is extasy =-O


----------



## bavinck

Mochill is a tease


----------



## RuFrost (Aug 27, 2018)

Any earbuds, but specially, bs1 official.


----------



## Matarro

mbwilson111 said:


> Are you willing to pay $148?  at that price there are so many choices.



That's a very good point! There are lot's of options at $100-200 and maybe this wouldn't be my first pick at that price. I might have gotten a good deal on a used pair though.


----------



## jant71

Mochill a tease? What? That is what you get from Mochill. One word. Usually starts with an "E". Excellent, epic, ecstasy etc.


----------



## subwoof3r

mochill said:


> :-D the TM9 is here, the legend continuesB-)


Nice!
My TM9 just reached my country today  should receive my it in the next 3 days.

But for now, my "extasy" is definitely EBX, hehe. But I really need to finish EBX review before, because I'm affraid TM9 will maybe sound even better, that I won't grab them anymore for the next days/weeks, lol
I pray for a very interesting versus!


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Aug 27, 2018)

Does EBX usually go under $85 very often? Its $85 now. Wondering if I should pickup now or wait for 11/11 or maybe some other sale. Any recollections of 11/11 sale price?

Edit
Actually with coupons it's showing $78. I'm thinking I should just bite the bullet and buy them at that price?


----------



## MisterMudd

mbwilson111 said:


> Well, that makes you almost ancient then.


Ha Ha MB. Good one!


----------



## seanc6441

BadReligionPunk said:


> Does EBX usually go under $85 very often? Its $85 now. Wondering if I should pickup now or wait for 11/11 or maybe some other sale. Any recollections of 11/11 sale price?
> 
> Edit
> Actually with coupons it's showing $78. I'm thinking I should just bite the bullet and buy them at that price?


The price seems good, not sure if 11.11 was better from memory it could've been a few $ less but really after the coupon that's a great price.


----------



## mochill

jant71 said:


> Mochill a tease? What? That is what you get from Mochill. One word. Usually starts with an "E". Excellent, epic, ecstasy etc.


----------



## bavinck

Mochill you spent more words telling us about the tracking than the sound..........


----------



## mbwilson111

bavinck said:


> Mochill you spent more words telling us about the tracking than the sound..........



Leave him alone... he is busy listening


----------



## mochill

I'm far gone into the TM9 that I don't want to come out of it. It has the best bass response I have heard in an earbud and that texture from the bass is top notch. Soundstage is massively open and natural, mid-range is 3D with air to spare, treble is smooth as butter but clear as darkness.all my impression is without foam and burn in.B-)


----------



## bavinck

Nice. Sounds like an awesome bud!


----------



## ClieOS

mochill said:


> I'm far gone into the TM9 that I don't want to come out of it. It has the best bass response I have heard in an earbud and that texture from the bass is top notch. Soundstage is massively open and natural, mid-range is 3D with air to spare, treble is smooth as butter but clear as darkness.all my impression is without foam and burn in.B-)



What did I tell ya all? It is THAT good!


----------



## bavinck

Speaking of no foams. Do many of you use buds without foams?


----------



## ClieOS

bavinck said:


> Speaking of no foams. Do many of you use buds without foams?



Rarely I use earbuds without one, unless the earbuds' SQ really degrades with any type of foam. Otherwise I usually stick to donut or muilti-holes foam.


----------



## mochill

Blox earphones was never bad to begin with, the TM7 was my first from them and that was an mind-blowing experience with my first earbud. It was from then I started earbud journey and ended up with mojito(was #2) and stardust (was #1 ) .they are still good but not on the TM9 level.


----------



## bhima

sigh... thanks to this sub i now have the metal geill graphenes and the yincrow rw-777 on the way. hopefully the wife wont wont notice.


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> What did I tell ya all? It is THAT good!


How well does it extend in bass and treble? Compared to say Rose Mojito or K's Ling. Extension is more important than massive quantity to me.


----------



## seanc6441

@golov

Or anyone really. Got any taobao links for custom metal shells for 15.6 diameter? To fit mx500 type drivers.

Placed an order for the metal 14.8mm shells that you linked golov (thank you!) but now im wondering if there's any high quality metal shells to fit mx500 drivers so I can custom some earbuds.

Any links for me to check out would be appreciated!


----------



## golov17 (Aug 28, 2018)

@seanc6441
Earbud style ear shell 15.4mm earphone shell
http://s.aliexpress.com/VFRfEnMF

15.4MM headphones shell Ear metal shell(don't contain front cover)
http://s.aliexpress.com/RbAJfiiu


----------



## bhima

Ok ya'll, be prepared for a wall of text because, here comes my
*HEADPHONE SHOWDOWN






(FAAEAL DATURA-X, AKG K7XX, PortaPros (with Yaxi Pads), RE0, VE MONK+*

I'm going to start this by first apologizing that this isn't a well written review by any means. Most of it is stream of consciousness style note-taking while listening to the different headphones. I don't really have the time it takes to write, and more importantly, edit a real review. Plus, I'm no expert by any means--just a family man with hobby.

*TLR: Datura-X is second only to the AKG on resolution, timbre, instrument separation and overall frequency response presentation. It cons are a peak in the 2-4kHz, and it lacks soundstage and good note decay.*

Ok, so what is note decay? I may have totally made this up and there is likely a real term and definition for this, but in my noggin note decay is sound combined with the feeling of space created outside your head as a note dissipates away. For example, think of pressing a note on a piano real fast in a very small padded room. Now think of pressing and holding that note down in a concert hall. The decaying note travels away effortlessly into the infinite beyond. Each type of headphone, be it IEM, Earbud, or full-sized headphone represents this differently. This is different to me than soundstage. Soundstage to me is the overall space notes that are played at that instant have. Obviously headphones with a good soundstage likely have a better sense of note decay, but this isn't always the case. Regardless, here is a graphic I made to visualize this concept:






What this illustration is trying to show is a visual representation of how much potential soundstage and sound decay each type of headphone can give you. Sure, the Audeze iSine and the Sennheiser IE800 both probably have much bigger soundstages than what is represented in the IEM category, but they are the exception not the rule. What is most interesting to me though is amount of note decay possible in an earbud because they can be made with the same amount of openness as a full-sized open back headphone. Sure their soundstage will never reach the cavernous depths of a Sennheiser HD800, but what they lack in overall soundstage they can make up for in note decay and portability. It is this potential in note decay that intrigues me about earbuds, and it was immediately noticeable to me the minute I first put on the VE MONKS+ I originally purchased. I've been hooked ever since, and I'm sure my wife and wallet thank this sub for this.

Alright, hopefully that gives a basis for why I'm so into this type of audio product. *On to the showdown!!*

Come Away with Me (Nora Jones)

Datura: slightly peaky piano. Good timbre on singers voice, good balance of warmth and resolution, slight midrange resonance bleeding a hint of clarity in vocals, bass response is solid with minimal bloom and decent speed, 2-4k peak that is noticeable, but not too bad on this song. Soundstage is very intimate, mostly in the head, very little sense outside the head. Instrument separation is quite good for a $20 headphone.


RE0: Less bass response, similar soundstage. Slightly more mid-forward with no resonance, though clarity isn’t quite as good as the Datura. I think there is a similar 2-4K peak actually haha! Noticeable on Nora’s higher notes that she emphasizes. Instrument separation is slightly lacking in comparison. Bass is possibly more accurate but less present and not as warm.


VE MONK+: Slightly larger soundstage, but much bigger sound decay which I love. Notes don’t ever really die, they just smoothly roll away from your head on to infinity--like looking across the ocean. Midrange slightly more recessed than REO or Datura. Smoother midrange and highs, but detail sort of suffers, lower midrange tends to bleed a bit into the upper midrange. Has a more analog sound akin to the PortaPros. Bass is the least accurate and just rolls off pretty hard below 100Hz. Still, the sound decay is what makes me love these so much, given their other flaws.


PortaPros (With Yaxi Pad modification): Bigger soundstage, though the sound never really feels like its in the head and travels out, sounds more like its right outside your head and extends out a bit. Sound decay is quite good, though to my ears no where near as good as the Monk. Vocal midrange is smooth, with the same detail as the RE0, bass is more prominent, probably a little too prominent but its also more accurate in that it seems to resolve all of the bass notes in the song. Highs are very smooth, relaxing sound, instrument separation is close to the Datura on this song. I’d say the highs tend to side with being inoffensive and smooth, sacrificing some resolution and sparkle in the process but not dark or veiled. Overall, the PortaPros sort of wrap you up in a blanket of velvet, and hand you a cup of some fine dark hot chocolate.


AKG K7XX: Out of head sound, piano sounds go back several feet. Note decay is good, but the Monks are even better here. But, the speed of the drivers are what is key here. While decay is less, there is a space between note fall-off and a new note hit that is distinct--this is likely do to the driver’s agility to oscillate and come back to neutral position. It does this the best of the bunch, with the Daturas coming in second. Vocals are extremely well balanced between warm and detailed. The best of the bunch by a significant margin. Instrument separation is fantastic, a little better than the Datura’s--which is really a positive review of the Datura’s. Highs are extremely mature--they are smooth yet revealing, not a hint of the 2-4kHz peak I get from the Chi-Fi duo. If the portaPros wrap you up in velvet, the AKG’s give you a silky liner to go with it.


Best to least best:


AKG


PortaPro: Because the song is velvet and the headphones are velvet. Will likely be different with a different song.


Datura/VE Monk tie: Datura is better in almost every way here, but the VE Monk has that note decay that I love enough to overlook its short-comings and so they tie.


RE0: Good, but not better at anything than the others imo


Moderat: A New Error (Techno)

Datura: Good speed on the highs here, crisp, well separated with just the right amount of bite for this genre. Bass is substantial, relatively quick though not quite quick enough. Instrument separation is again, quite good especially for such a highly syncopated song. Soundstage a bit too intimate for this genre but not horrible or too congested. Other than the soundstage, the Datura’s sound closest to the AKGs of the bunch.


VE MONK+: Highs are a bit rolled off, speed not quite there. Bass is not great here, very one note. Decent soundstage though. Here the note decay is nice on the high syncopation notes, but the overall lack of speed in the driver, and anemic bass response doesn’t lend itself to this type of music. Instrument presentation is quite good though.


RE0: Highs are well represented, decent speed and separation. Bass is present and accurate though not exciting in any way. Soundstage is intimate, though slightly larger than the Datura. Instrument separation is better than the Monk but not than the Datura. Highs are present, but they are lacking a bit of bite that this type of music really requires. Pretty boring overall presentation for this genre.


PortaPros (With Yaxi Pad modification): Smooth highs, no veil, lacking crispness. Bass is much more impactful, note representation is mostly there though there is too much resonance and the bass bleeds into the upper midrange even. The speed of the driver is likely the issue here. Still, the bass impact does help to make up for its inaccurate representation. Sound is overall a bit too warm for this genre of music, but the soundstage is perfect to my ears for techno. Its not way out of your head, but it does seem to decay outside of the head just enough to envelop you, forcing you to bob your head up and down because nothing says fun like PortaPro sound.


AKG K7XX: Balanced highs that are smooth, yet revealing and just bright enough to have that crisp dynamism that is needed for techno. Bass is extremely accurate, very little resonance but with quite a nice hit to the skull. Instrument separation is its strong suit here. Every syncopated note is clearly defined. Soundstage is the largest of the group, but the note decay is not quite as extended as the portapros on this song.


Best to least best:


AKG


Datura: I’ll let the soundstage and lack of note decay slide here because the rest of its qualities, from its driver speed, crisp highs to its well controlled bass clearly put it above the others.


PortaPros: Lots of impact, most ideal soundstage for this type of music imo and the best note decay of the bunch. It lacks the resolution across the frequency response though.


RE0: More accurate than the PortaPros, but its just lacking bass and overall instrument/soundstage presentation. Never thought I could get sleepy listening to that song, but the RE0’s got me thinking of bed instead of finishing this review.


Monk+: Poor frequency response throughout the main spectrum of this song (ie: bass and treble). One note, anemic bass and rolled off highs do not make for a good combination for techno.


Ginnung - Jeremy Soule (Soundtrack/Ambient Orchestra: )

This is definitely my favorite genre of music to listen to while I work. It just puts me in the zone for doing design work for hours on end and its also not so complex in sound that I can respond to emails and distill technical reports into laymen, approachable text.


Datura: Highs have some air to them, well extended. On the big cresendo of the song (at 10:10): the driver kept up with no distortion and solid instrument separation even during what is a very difficult movement of the song. Its two shortcomings likely arise from the same problem: The shell of the Datura are completely sealed except for two very small ports on the bottom. This makes the soundstage congested, and, on complex pieces such as this, the sound stays within the shell adding quite a bit of resonance that bleeds into some of the music. The 2-4kHz peak is also noticeable, bringing forward some of the soprano notes that should not be so forward in the head.


VE Monks: Note decay really makes the strings sing here, and the soundstage/presentation of instruments is quite good even though the stage isn’t huge. Highs are lacking extension for sure and the bass has no impact whatsoever--lucky for the Monk, this song doesn’t require great bass to make the song--unfortunately the highs are a bit too rolled off here. The driver speed is decent enough, though not as dynamic as the Datura here. Still, the note decay really feels like the music is just washing over you and passing through a huge valley amidst a circle of mountains, it even bests the PortaPros on this. This is THE reason I am enamored by earbuds right now, and its why I have already ordered 3 different pairs on Ali Express.


RE0: Smooth upper midrange and highs here though its lacking warmth in the lower-midrange, sparkle in the highs and bass is near non-existent. Speed of the driver is above average, and individual notes in the crescendo are mostly in order, though it lacks that definitive attack on each note that the Datura seems to do so well. Note decay is all in the head and thus, not great imo. Soundstage feels more congested than the Datura.

PortaPros:  Highs are a bit too smooth here for this genre of music. Note decay is very good though, extending well beyond my head. Bass has a bit too much rumble. Crescendo is handled surprisingly well, with good individual note dynamism. Some of that dynamism is superseded by the boomy-ness of the bass though. Instrument separation was good, better than I expected and close to the Daturas. Overall soundstage/note presentation is quite good, though I’m left wanting a bit more width for this song. Still, the PortaPros put in an excellent showing for this song.


AKG: Again, balanced highs and upper midrange with this uncanny level of extension while remaining smooth. Note decay is good on the strings, but I think its slightly behind both the PortaPros and the Monks. Soundstage is quite spacious and note presentation/placement are in their proper places. Instrument separation and driver speed on the crescendo are unmatched by the rest of the group here, though the Datura puts in the second best showing.


Best to least best


AKG: Almost perfect here… just needs a bit more note decay outside of the head.


PortaPros: Soundstage and note presentation are what put these ahead of the others here.


VE Monk+: The note decay of strings and haunting choral vocals make me overlook the fact that the Monks are inferior in every other way to the Daturas. It simply just feels damn good with this song.


Datura: While they place lower in this song, its not for any other issue except for its lack of air, soundstage and note decay. The Datura places second only to the AKGs on image separation, note timbre and how well it handled the complex crescendo. Its not terribly far off, and remember, these are $20 chi-fi headphones compared to $200 full-sized open-back headphones.


RE0: Your time has come buddy. You have been usurped by $10 chi-fi.



Final thoughts:

Well, I have to admit, I was quite surprised by just how well the $18 Datura-X faired here. Its overall sound accuracy from solid bass representation, smooth and balanced mids and decently dynamic highs, to its driver speed, the Datura truly impressed me. They are more revealing and accurate than anything I tested besides the AKGs.  Having said that, my biggest problem with the Datura is its lack of soundstage or note decay. These are really important aspects of sound quality to me that I can overlook imperfections elsewhere more easily. Because of this, my order of preference based on this test goes:


AKG (duh)


PortaPros


TIE: Datura/VE Monks+


RE0


Thanks for reading ya’ll. See you again after I get my bounty from AliExpress!





*



*


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> How well does it extend in bass and treble? Compared to say Rose Mojito or K's Ling. Extension is more important than massive quantity to me.



It is not exceptionally dynamic like Mojito nor it is deep reaching as Ling, but TM9's extension is still adequate in my book. The key part about TM9, for me, is not that it has one aspect that really stands out over other but the overall presentation is very smooth and in harmony.


----------



## Danneq

ClieOS said:


> the overall presentation is very smooth and in harmony.



Yep, that sounds like how a Blox TOTL earbud would be described!


----------



## audionab

can anyone point me to the list of contenders in sub-10$ earbuds which have good sub bass with smooth mids and treble
i saw some buds on audiobudget's website i was impressed by the reviews and FRs of these buds at 10$


----------



## subwoof3r

OMG just received my *TM9* today! (faster than I thought) 
hype is real guys! 

Just gave a quick listen (5 minutes), it sounds extremely good but overall I'm less surprised than my EBX.
TM9 is more intimate, which is interesting also.
TM9 subbass and bass has more presence than EBX.
EBX has more forwarded mids and clarity in highs and details.
Let's begin (the long) burning process! see you laters for more impressions


----------



## blackberriesandthinkpads (Aug 28, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> MX980 has been discontinued for 6 yrs now. It was replaced by MX985 which is also discontinued for about 4 yrs now.
> 
> Here are a few ToTL earbuds for you to research that are still in the market and not very difficult to get: Moondrop Liebesleid, Shozy BK (or better yet, BK Limited), Simphonio SW-Dragon 2+ (aka SWD2+), Blox TM9, Rose Mojito (classical music only), K's Earphone Black Ling.



How does the sound signature differ between the Shozy BK and BK limited? There's quite a premium for the limited, I assume it has a different sound signature? Do they use the same shells?

How good is the sub-bass extension on the BK? Impact?

Also, how does the Shozy BK shell size compare to the Blox TM9 shell size?

What size driver does the TM9 use? Literally no info on the TM9 on the web but in this thread.

Based on what I've researched so far, it seems the Liebesleid and Shozy have the smallest housings (just going by driver size)? I think my Monk+ are too large for me.

Does anyone know the driver size in the Monk+?

I think what I want in a bud is a non fatiguing fun universal signature with good sub-bass extension, and sound stage. Think a pair of earbuds to sort of simulate a movie theatre experience. I don't like bright phones, for that reason I think the Liebesleid and Mojito are out.

Does anyone in this thread own a pair of Fostex TH-X00 (any variant)? If so, what TOTL bud has a similar signature?

Anyone own the Cypherus Blue Darth? Does the bass and sub-bass muddy up the rest of the frequency range? Is this phone really the bass king of TOTL buds? Does it have any sub-bass or just bass?

Seems there are only less than 10 truly real TOTL low impedance earbuds out there, should be easy to narrow down. Cypherus isn't making things easy though, hard to find info on their buds. Finding any info on this category of product is rather difficult actually.


Slight tangent again:

Anyone using iBasso D14 Bushmaster DAC/AMP with their buds? Any issues? Noise floor? Older DAC but uses the same chip as my DX90 so I think I might appreciate the consistency. Considering getting it as my main USB DAC/AMP for PC use.

I'm stuck between that, the Oppo HA-2/HA-2SE, one of the ifi nanos, and the Chord Mojito. It's for desktop use so I like the form factors with a desktop friendly potentiometer knob.


----------



## activatorfly

subwoof3r said:


> OMG just received my *TM9* today! (faster than I thought)
> hype is real guys!
> 
> Just gave a quick listen (5 minutes), it sounds extremely good but overall I'm less surprised than my EBX.
> ...


- I thought you were having problems with your EBX cables and drivers? - I delayed ordering a pair cos of that! ....Can you elaborate more about the TM9 - why it seems underwhelming compared to EBX?...what about the TM9's soundstage?? (I'd like both buds tbh - but it's an either/or choice!)


----------



## dheepak10

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I cleared it after you comment....that should have the end of the story...dont drag it...
> 
> Share something valuable
> Ask something
> ...





dhruvmeena96 said:


> I thought he would be interested in so called yuin drivers because I was not able to find bio celluloses





dhruvmeena96 said:


> By the way @DAndrew do you know where can I get 15.4mm cellulose driver
> 
> I found a dual circuit graphene (HF and lf) driver that fits in mx500 shell



No offense, but you need to learn to use quote, multi quote and reply in a single list.
The way you post without context is borderline spamming.


----------



## mbwilson111

dheepak10 said:


> No offense, but you need to learn to use quote, multi quote and reply in a single list.
> The way you post without context is borderline spamming.



Don't worry, I think (hope) he has stopped.  Unfortunately has moved into another thread to try again... the VE thread


----------



## dhruvmeena96

dheepak10 said:


> No offense, but you need to learn to use quote, multi quote and reply in a single list.
> The way you post without context is borderline spamming.





mbwilson111 said:


> Don't worry, I think (hope) he has stopped.  Unfortunately has moved into another thread to try again... the VE thread


I didn't...

I am sick

100F

And I am sorry, I always forget to multi quote...


----------



## baconbone12

Where are the Blox TM9 earphones available for purchase, and how much do they cost?


----------



## ShabtabQ

okay so I am low on budget currently but as the Aliexpress discounts are going on, help me get the cheap and best earbud, 
already have the monk plus and PT15, my budget is 20$, if there's anything worth buying right now, if not then later I can save and can extend my budget more, 
was planning to buy Willsounds later but the discounts are kinda pulling me right now.


----------



## HungryPanda

EMX500s @ £8.70 in the sale


----------



## seanc6441

ShabtabQ said:


> okay so I am low on budget currently but as the Aliexpress discounts are going on, help me get the cheap and best earbud,
> already have the monk plus and PT15, my budget is 20$, if there's anything worth buying right now, if not then later I can save and can extend my budget more,
> was planning to buy Willsounds later but the discounts are kinda pulling me right now.


Save up for 11.11. Bigger discounts and you can buy something like Nicehck EBX for $70 during that sale (judging from last years sale).

Meanwhile if you are itching for a new bud get the emx500 like panda suggests it's cheap and good for all genres.

But being on a tight budget means it'll been a special buy if you save up and buy some quality during a sale. Also there's always bigger discounts on the higher priced buds so you'll be getting your monies worth!


----------



## silverfishla

Hype train strikes again!  EBX on the way!  Choo choo baby!


----------



## baconbone12

Can someone compare the Willsound Mk2s and Nicehcks EBX?  The Mk2s are really awesome, but how do they hold up in comparison to something like the EBX earbuds?


----------



## ShabtabQ

seanc6441 said:


> Save up for 11.11. Bigger discounts and you can buy something like Nicehck EBX for $70 during that sale (judging from last years sale).
> 
> Meanwhile if you are itching for a new bud get the emx500 like panda suggests it's cheap and good for all genres.
> 
> But being on a tight budget means it'll been a special buy if you save up and buy some quality during a sale. Also there's always bigger discounts on the higher priced buds so you'll be getting your monies worth!



Definitely gonna wait then, 11.11 is not far I'll save the best I can, thanks.


----------



## silverfishla

11.11 is a crapshoot.  2 years ago I got my Mojitos for $125 from Ali with an added dealer discount.  Last year they were barely discounted.


----------



## seanc6441

silverfishla said:


> 11.11 is a crapshoot.  2 years ago I got my Mojitos for $125 from Ali with an added dealer discount.  Last year they were barely discounted.


Yes but the fact that you got that earbud so cheap means it’s probably worth waiting for 11.11 to find a killer deal on some earbud.

Of course that’s up to the individual to decide, it’s what I would do myself given the choice though.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Hit that EBX at $78. Should have it next week. Pretty effing excited about it. 

Got home from work a few minutes ago. Had the emx500 waiting for me. Listening right now with a huge grin on my face. Listening to some rap with sub bass hits from anywhere from 50hz to 30hz  and these things are killing it. $9, What? 

Saint Louis/ Kansas City represent


----------



## bavinck

TM9 people:what's the impedance? Is it okay out of a phone?


----------



## danimoca

Guys! What are some of the best sub-20$-ish earbuds on the Ali sale right now?

Already have the EMX500's and the Monk+'s.


----------



## wskl

baconbone12 said:


> Where are the Blox TM9 earphones available for purchase, and how much do they cost?



Go to post #34064


----------



## mochill

bavinck said:


> TM9 people:what's the impedance? Is it okay out of a phone?


I think it was 16ohm


----------



## ShabtabQ

danimoca said:


> Guys! What are some of the best sub-20$-ish earbuds on the Ali sale right now?
> 
> Already have the EMX500's and the Monk+'s.



I have the PT15 and they are pretty good sounding, and nicely built too, definitely a steal at the price they go for.


----------



## chinmie

danimoca said:


> Guys! What are some of the best sub-20$-ish earbuds on the Ali sale right now?
> 
> Already have the EMX500's and the Monk+'s.



**** PT15, Edifier H185, and check out the new Datura X too


----------



## fairx (Aug 29, 2018)

Lol still eyeing Puresounds 500. When they gonna drop price?


----------



## chinmie

fairx said:


> Lol still eyeing Puresounds 500. When they gonna drop proce?



it's fun to read someone post about something that's currently sitting on my ears


----------



## euge

mochill said:


> I think it was 16ohm



I asked before purchasing and he said they were 32ohm


----------



## mochill

euge said:


> I asked before purchasing and he said they were 32ohm


Nice


----------



## bavinck

I am not generally a big believer/noticer of "burn in". However I will say I am sure the subbass extension, presence and texture is getting better in time with my K600.


----------



## mircea78

Hi, I am searching for a non-chinese (if possible) earbuds for my wife. I don't mind to spend more, but I would like something with good sound and if possible good build. I searched all the shops I know but it's really difficult to find earbuds. 
So, my question is what are in your opinion the best (neutral sounding) earbuds right now? 
Thanks.


----------



## chinmie

mircea78 said:


> Hi, I am searching for a non-chinese (if possible) earbuds for my wife. I don't mind to spend more, but I would like something with good sound and if possible good build. I searched all the shops I know but it's really difficult to find earbuds.
> So, my question is what are in your opinion the best (neutral sounding) earbuds right now?
> Thanks.



price not a problem? then the SWD2+ for neutral. Blox TM9 based on ClieOS description might also fit the bill, but i haven't tried them so i can't give a valid comment


----------



## dhruvmeena96

mircea78 said:


> Hi, I am searching for a non-chinese (if possible) earbuds for my wife. I don't mind to spend more, but I would like something with good sound and if possible good build. I searched all the shops I know but it's really difficult to find earbuds.
> So, my question is what are in your opinion the best (neutral sounding) earbuds right now?
> Thanks.


By Chinese, do you mean DIY stuff or actual chinese


MusicMaker toneking ty2

Shozy BK(yuin DIY)

Svara pro

Simphonio Dragon2 plus(never heard, but I see a lot of good reviews, Yuin DIY)

My fav is Astrotec Lyra collection, but people dont like it due to QC issues


----------



## mircea78

Thank you very much. I'll take a look at the SWD2+


----------



## seanc6441

bavinck said:


> I am not generally a big believer/noticer of "burn in". However I will say I am sure the subbass extension, presence and texture is getting better in time with my K600.


With some buds I notice a difference too.


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> With some buds I notice a difference too.



I noticed the most with the Willsound PK32 I used to own...

For now I'm also burning in the SWD2+... nowhere near the recommended 50 hours as I don't leave them on overnight...


----------



## rkw

chinmie said:


> price not a problem? then the SWD2+ for neutral.


Interesting to hear you say that. I crossed the SWD2+ off my list because I've read 3 reviews that were positive but each said it isn't for those seeking neutral sound.


----------



## 40760

rkw said:


> Interesting to hear you say that. I crossed the SWD2+ off my list because I've read 3 reviews that were positive but each said it isn't for those seeking neutral sound.



He's not wrong... it does sound quite neutral to me...


----------



## chinmie

rkw said:


> Interesting to hear you say that. I crossed the SWD2+ off my list because I've read 3 reviews that were positive but each said it isn't for those seeking neutral sound.



neutral as neither too warm or to cold sounding. i'd also throw in the puresound PS100-500 or 600, and also the yinman 600 (although slightly tilting to warm sound). i didn't suggest these earlier because he's looking for the best, and also these are high impedance. the slight hassle might not be for everyone


----------



## DAndrew

mircea78 said:


> Hi, I am searching for a non-chinese (if possible) earbuds for my wife. I don't mind to spend more, but I would like something with good sound and if possible good build. I searched all the shops I know but it's really difficult to find earbuds.
> So, my question is what are in your opinion the best (neutral sounding) earbuds right now?
> Thanks.



Depends on your budget. For a neutral sound you cannot get better than Blur imo. I own the Blur 300 and its close to my full sized Sennheiser


----------



## seanc6441

Yinman 600 is at ~$105 right now


----------



## mircea78

DAndrew said:


> Depends on your budget. For a neutral sound you cannot get better than Blur imo. I own the Blur 300 and its close to my full sized Sennheiser



Thank you. You can drive that from an iPhone? It needs an amp, right?


----------



## DAndrew

mircea78 said:


> Thank you. You can drive that from an iPhone? It needs an amp, right?



I drive them quite fine from my S7 and dont notice _that _big of a difference with my DragonFly clone so an iPhone should be fine


----------



## theresanarc

Are these still good as a Monk replacement or something else? I was thinking of Qian69's as well (have Qian39). Don't want anything too warm sounding or with too much sibilance, just something neutral:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...569005.html?shortkey=rIjqeemI&addresstype=600


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Yinman 600 is at ~$105 right now



great sounding, but might be a bit fragile and need extra soft hand to use them. my yinman 500 is much tougher because of the non removable cables, though i like the 600's sound better


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 30, 2018)

chinmie said:


> great sounding, but might be a bit fragile and need extra soft hand to use them. my yinman 500 is much tougher because of the non removable cables, though i like the 600's sound better


I'm so tempted i have it in my AE cart even but im also spending quite a bit of money on another project atm so i will pass most likely...

How does the 600 stack up to your SW2 plus,liebesleid and other TOTL buds for example? Is it similar to anything else?

Edit:maybe you don't have sw2? But you heard it right?


----------



## McCol

seanc6441 said:


> Yinman 600 is at ~$105 right now



Quite like the look of these but got a wee question regarding the ohms.  Now these are rated at 600ohm and mymoon Nightshade are rated at 500ohm.  My Fiio Q5 in theory should struggle to drive them when I look at the tech specs of the amp/dac.  However it doesn't struggle at all driving the 500ohm, plenty of detailand volume at around 1/3 to 1/2 volume.

Can anybody explain this for me?


----------



## seanc6441

McCol said:


> Quite like the look of these but got a wee question regarding the ohms.  Now these are rated at 600ohm and mymoon Nightshade are rated at 500ohm.  My Fiio Q5 in theory should struggle to drive them when I look at the tech specs of the amp/dac.  However it doesn't struggle at all driving the 500ohm, plenty of detailand volume at around 1/3 to 1/2 volume.
> 
> Can anybody explain this for me?


Different sensitivity rating. I think the yinmans according to some actual do require power though(someone likened them to HD650 power levels almost and similar sound sig)


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> I'm so tempted i have it in my AE cart even but im also spending quite a bit of money on another project atm so i will pass most likely...
> 
> How does the 600 stack up to your SW2 plus,liebesleid and other TOTL buds for example? Is it similar to anything else?
> 
> Edit:maybe you don't have sw2? But you heard it right?



nope, i don't have the SWD2+, tempted (as i did with TM9) but i think the Liebesleid is more to my liking and it's already enough for me, and and the $300 mark and up i personally prefer to invest on an IEM. but i do like the SWD2+ sound.

the Yinman 600 is warm and nice sounding, similar to the high impedance puresounds. I'd say they're technically can hang with the TOTLs.

i haven't heard other earbuds that can beat Liebesleid on detail and treble. well, there is the mojito, but you know how i feel about the mojito


----------



## chinmie

McCol said:


> Quite like the look of these but got a wee question regarding the ohms.  Now these are rated at 600ohm and mymoon Nightshade are rated at 500ohm.  My Fiio Q5 in theory should struggle to drive them when I look at the tech specs of the amp/dac.  However it doesn't struggle at all driving the 500ohm, plenty of detailand volume at around 1/3 to 1/2 volume.
> 
> Can anybody explain this for me?



if only talking about volume, even some phones can drive those 600ohms to listenable level, but the beauty of them is that they can handle more gain. try switching to high gain on your Q5 and match the volume to what you previously listened on low gain, you’ll hear the difference. 

i prefer to use earbuds higher than 100 ohms with high gain settings if i have the option, it just have more that "spice" to the sound


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> if only talking about volume, even some phones can drive those 600ohms to listenable level, but the beauty of them is that they can handle more gain. try switching to high gain on your Q5 and match the volume to what you previously listened on low gain, you’ll hear the difference.
> 
> i prefer to use earbuds higher than 100 ohms with high gain settings if i have the option, it just have more that "spice" to the sound


Doesn't gain=power(Voltage)?

So assuming you don't change the earbud, amp-dac or source files/player used, wouldn't more gain just mean more volume?

Unless the amp is doing something internally to change the sound once you flip the switch so to speak? Like a different pathing in the circuitry etc etc.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Doesn't gain=power(Voltage)?
> 
> So assuming you don't change the earbud, amp-dac or source files/player used, wouldn't more gain just mean more volume?
> 
> Unless the amp is doing something internally to change the sound once you flip the switch so to speak? Like a different pathing in the circuitry etc etc.



gain switch usually doesn't just add volume, it adds more bite and harmonics to the sound. the extreme example would be guitar distortion/overdrive pedals. it was meant originally to boost volume, but if you match volume and just crank up the gain, it will get distorted. 

i see you have a topping NX1 on your list, it has gain switch, right? try it yourself: listen to the low gain first, then pause the music, switch to high gain (and remember to turn down the volume first)  the play it again and try to match the volume to the previous low gain. whether the "overdriven" sound is to your liking or not is up to you


----------



## Zerohour88

just when I've decided to wait on the NiceHCK EBX until 11.11 sale (not sure if its enough of an upgrade to my TO180), Toneking comes up with these:

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-15592547460.30.11857ed54hnfne&id=576194290805


----------



## bhima

Zerohour88 said:


> just when I've decided to wait on the NiceHCK EBX until 11.11 sale (not sure if its enough of an upgrade to my TO180), Toneking comes up with these:
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-15592547460.30.11857ed54hnfne&id=576194290805



They look cool. I'm unsure if the port is large enough to get that out of the head experience though. Maybe they are tuned to not go so deep into your ear that resonance is reduced due to not being so sealed.


----------



## 40760

Linsoul BLD 150ohm anyone?


----------



## cathee

palestofwhite said:


> Linsoul BLD 150ohm anyone?



I just impulse ordered a pair in 4.4mm termination off Amazon. Will report back if they are worth while...


----------



## silverfishla

palestofwhite said:


> Linsoul BLD 150ohm anyone?


Hawaii Bad Boy just did a video on those.  Only problem with his video (which he admits) he doesn’t have much of a reference to compare them to.  He didn’t like the BGVP DXs, but I do (relatively speaking when comparing in the $20-50 range).  But, he just got off of reviewing some great budget IEMs Tin Audio T2 and TRN V80 (in the same price range $28-40).


----------



## gazzington

I am considering going Totl and buying those £200+ dragons earphones.  I’d like something quite neutral.  Would these be a food choice?


----------



## gazzington

Meant good choice!


----------



## chinmie

gazzington said:


> I am considering going Totl and buying those £200+ dragons earphones.  I’d like something quite neutral.  Would these be a food choice?



that's cheap considering the price of dragon meat these days


----------



## DAndrew

gazzington said:


> I am considering going Totl and buying those £200+ dragons earphones.  I’d like something quite neutral.  Would these be a food choice?



As I always say, if you want the best neutral buds ( imo ) go for Blurs. I own the Blur 300 and it is perfectly neutral


----------



## RobinFood

DAndrew said:


> As I always say, if you want the best neutral buds ( imo ) go for Blurs. I own the Blur 300 and it is perfectly neutral



How much did you pay for them?
Do you know how they compare to the liebesleid?


----------



## DAndrew (Aug 31, 2018)

RobinFood said:


> How much did you pay for them?
> Do you know how they compare to the liebesleid?



I have not heard the Liebesleid but I have seen that the highs are a tad too harsh for some. None of that for the Blur 300. The version I have is sadly no longer being made

EDIT: stupid grammar


----------



## HungryPanda

gazzington said:


> I am considering going Totl and buying those £200+ dragons earphones.  I’d like something quite neutral.  Would these be a food choice?


 It is a serious Head-Fi addiction when subconsciously you mention food (or earbud)


----------



## RobinFood (Aug 31, 2018)

DAndrew said:


> I have not heard the Liebesleid but I have seen that the highs are a tad too harsh for some. None of that for the Blur 300. The version I have is sadly no longer being made
> 
> EDIT: stupid grammar



Alright, it sounds like something I might enjoy.
I mostly asked for the price to get an idea of prices in general without wasting Wongs time thinking I will buy anytime soon. I won't be able to afford anything like this until Christmas time in any case.


----------



## bavinck

RobinFood said:


> Alright, it sounds like something I might enjoy.
> I mostly asked for the price to get an idea of prices in general without wasting Wongs time thinking I will buy anytime soon. I won't be able to afford anything like this until Christmas time in any case.



Just tell him that and ask for pricing.


----------



## RobinFood

bavinck said:


> Just tell him that and ask for pricing.



You're absolutely right. I just got caught up in the moment and thought it would be easier. I will ask myself.


----------



## subwoof3r

Some new *Blox TM9* impressions after approx *70 hours* of proper burning :

Really enjoying the sound which has opened up and begins to be really interesting. Details are now there, bass is more controlled. Soundstage also gained some depth.

I think TM9 will be my best on the go pair as I really like the sound. Bass for me is important, and it's like TM9 has been designed to be worn without any foam at all. Without foam, sound is linear without any prominent frequency, nicely balanced. I now understand why Woo joined the same extreme thin (red) foams from VE (as the only pair of foams included in the box).

Really love TM9 sound, so well tuned. They can be used for many hours without any headache, as the sound is not as energetic as EBX (which are truly analytic to me). TM9 is a mix of analog and analytic, impressive.

On TM9 it’s like the person is singing just in front of you, while on EBX it’s less intimate and dispersed. EBX has still the biggest soundstage of both. If you’re looking for something realist, more transparent and natural, then TM9 will be your best friend.

I don’t feel any bump in upper mids, unlike EBX. TM9 is more linear in the whole frequency, while keeping good amount of details and, not fatiguing highs and mids, but impactful and nicely controlled bass and subbass. A true magical earbud that (of course) rivals easily with other TOTL earbuds.

But EBX didn’t tell it’s last word, I really like them both, and will keep them both, as they are complementary each others. They are just completely different.

See you soon for other more impressions!


----------



## mochill

Keep burning them in


----------



## chinmie

subwoof3r said:


> Some new *Blox TM9* impressions after approx *70 hours* of proper burning :
> 
> Really enjoying the sound which has opened up and begins to be really interesting. Details are now there, bass is more controlled. Soundstage also gained some depth.
> 
> ...



why do after reading your impressions i want the EBX all of a sudden?


----------



## silverfishla

Faaeal Datura X is...a winner!  Very full sounding with a nice upfront vocal, with great timbre.  Has a nice weighty bass that you can feel (love buds that you can feel pulse).  Great fit with a nice hang feel.  Generally warm sounding but clear, not muddy at all.  Sounds like a more solid DIY MX500.  I like this one better.


----------



## euge (Aug 31, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> Some new *Blox TM9* impressions after approx *70 hours* of proper burning :
> 
> Really enjoying the sound which has opened up and begins to be really interesting. Details are now there, bass is more controlled. Soundstage also gained some depth.
> 
> ...



Should try the black ling for bass, it's still on sale atm 

Been listening to the tm9 it's really sweet sounding! And the cable is amazing, everything is so light and comfortable.


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> Doesn't gain=power(Voltage)?
> 
> So assuming you don't change the earbud, amp-dac or source files/player used, wouldn't more gain just mean more volume?
> 
> Unless the amp is doing something internally to change the sound once you flip the switch so to speak? Like a different pathing in the circuitry etc etc.


Ouch, power does not equal voltage.  These graphics are how I remember the relationships ("PIE", if you use the "E" for voltage):








Increasing gain will increase the volume, but by increasing gain you are boosting everything, so the noise (or background) will also be increased, though circuit designs can compensate for this.


----------



## kw8910

Got my first Blur in today, half/half 150ohm. 2 strands pure silver, 2 strands pure copper w/ handmade leather pouch from Mr. Wong’s wife.


----------



## seanc6441

kw8910 said:


> Got my first Blur in today, half/half 150ohm. 2 strands pure silver, 2 strands pure copper w/ handmade leather pouch from Mr. Wong’s wife.


Wonder how its wired? If 2 is to ground then 1 left 1 right? Does that mean one side is silver one copper or is it different wiring i wonder


----------



## seanc6441

doggiemom said:


> Ouch, power does not equal voltage.  These graphics are how I remember the relationships ("PIE", if you use the "E" for voltage):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My bad yes i did read it could increase the noise too, but many also claim a difference in sound (albeit volume matching is a concern) so im wondering if something else is at play here or do people just like the sound of hissing in the background


----------



## kw8910

seanc6441 said:


> Wonder how its wired? If 2 is to ground then 1 left 1 right? Does that mean one side is silver one copper or is it different wiring i wonder


There’s one silver and one copper to each side but not sure which is ground and which for the signal.


----------



## silverfishla

seanc6441 said:


> My bad yes i did read it could increase the noise too, but many also claim a difference in sound (albeit volume matching is a concern) so im wondering if something else is at play here or do people just like the sound of hissing in the background


Adjusting gain in amp is common.  DAPs usually have setting, high and low.  In a lot of amps, gain is variable with a dial inside the amp.  Gain increases or decreases voltage flow which can make an amp sound warmer and more upfront or colder which is more even keeled and distant (for lack of better words).  In most cases for audio, you’d want to push your amps just below the point of distortion to achieve the most open and clear sound.  So switching around the gain not only affects how loud an amp can go, but it’s sound characteristics too.  A DAP like the cheap Zishan ones are cool because you can switch around the opamps to get a different sound and they are set at almost the distortion point.  Makes buds sound open and alive.


----------



## blackberriesandthinkpads (Sep 1, 2018)

BloodyPenguin said:


> Wong Kuan Wae's *Blur hALF/hALF 32ohm*
> 
> Tasty Bass While Keeping Much of the Detail.
> 
> ...



Just found your post while researching the TM9.

Are you saying the Blur hALF/hALF 32ohm is a good movie headphone? I literally use Star Wars battle scenes as a reference to test my headphones as I use them for movies/tv a lot. More than music. I'm currently looking for a earbud to take the place of my X00 Ebony.


----------



## blackberriesandthinkpads (Sep 1, 2018)

Danneq said:


> Have ordered Blox TM9. Moondrop Liebsleid might be on their way out. Amazing clarity and detail but a bit to clinically analytical for my tastes





Danneq said:


> I'll probably have to wait 2+ weeks for my TM9 AFTER they have reached Swedish customs...



Eagerly waiting for you to get your TM9s!

Just read every post in this thread about them, and you have a lot of the buds I'm considering for my first (and hopefully last) TOTL earbud. 

My culling process so far:
-Shozy BK eliminated due to lack of soundstage (by contrast)
-Moondroop Liebesleid eliminated due to treble, weight, analytical sound, artificial highs
-Symphonia Dragon 2+ eliminated due to complicated connector, and mid oriented sound signature, lack of bass
-Cypherus Zoomfred eliminated due to heavy? complicated cable

Too bad about the Zoomfred's cable, because both Herry and Danneq recommend it for my bass and sub bass desires. The cable really turns me off though, I really like simple. It looks like it can get annoying.

Trying not to convince myself to buy the Red Dragon. It sounds so cool though... "Red Dragon". Hmmm. More than double the cost of the TM9, but then again, saying it aloud, "Red Dragon"...


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> My bad yes i did read it could increase the noise too, but many also claim a difference in sound (albeit volume matching is a concern) so im wondering if something else is at play here or do people just like the sound of hissing in the background



unless it has a really bad connectors or bad grounding (which i reckon not a problem if we use battery operated devices like phones and DAPs) i don't think i have heard hissing with gains on DAPs.  but your milage might vary to mine


----------



## Ziggomatic

Picked up a Yuin PK1 set for funsies, since they seemed to be a classic (or at least used to be). They may not be considered to be state of the art anymore, but I'm here to report they still totally rip.

That is all.


----------



## Danneq (Sep 1, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> Some new *Blox TM9* impressions after approx *70 hours* of proper burning :
> 
> Really enjoying the sound which has opened up and begins to be really interesting. Details are now there, bass is more controlled. Soundstage also gained some depth.
> 
> ...




Cool! Sounds like TM9 is right up my alley (and that I might skip EBX just like I'll skip SWD2+ because of the sharp highs). Unfortunately I am very sensitive to sharp treble. The treble on Moondrop Liebesleid is about as much as I can take when it comes to analytical. Unfortunately Liebesleid is a bit too focused on highs and lacking in bass for my tastes.

My pair of TM9 has arrived in Sweden. Only 3 days from Thailand! Now I'll probably have to wait 2+ weeks while Swedish customs and Postnord act like the incompetents they are...





blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> Eagerly waiting for you to get your TM9s!
> 
> Just read every post in this thread about them, and you have a lot of the buds I'm considering for my first (and hopefully last) TOTL earbud.
> 
> ...




I've been into earbuds for close to 10 years and have had time (and money) to try most TOTL earbuds.

Shozy BK is a great allrounder but if you like a big soundstage is might not be your first choice.

The cable on ZoomFred actually isn't that heavy. It is slightly stiff but only up until the Y-splitter. I can use them portably without any problems. The cable on Red Dragon is something like 3 times as thick as on ZoomFred and from the Y-spillter the same stiff Cardas cable as is used on Zen Black (and CAX Black) is used. Red Dragon is only for use at home and when you do not move about a lot. But RD truly is amazing. At almost 1/3 the price of Red Dragon, I still think that ZoomFred is really great (with really well textured bass with deep sub bass).


----------



## bonson

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> Just found your post while researching the TM9.
> 
> Are you saying the Blur hALF/hALF 32ohm is a good movie headphone? I literally use Star Wars battle scenes as a reference to test my headphones as I use them for movies/tv a lot. More than music. I'm currently looking for a earbud to take the place of my X00 Ebony.



@blackberriesandthinkpads 
Bass, sub bass, movie... Have you tried Willsound MK2? You could really be surprised for these characteritics  if you don't already own them...I really enjoy them alongside with other TOTL earbuds


----------



## 40760

This is interesting... seems like many have jumped on the bandwagon...
Anyone here ordered one yet?


----------



## handwander

Someone run my life for me and tell me what Yuin shell bud I should get that is

a. an upgrade over the panda pk2s
b. slightly more expensive (maybe double its price or so) but nothing like $60 to $100


----------



## knudsen

kw8910 said:


> There’s one silver and one copper to each side but not sure which is ground and which for the signal.



I think the silver wire is normally used for the ground



Danneq said:


> The cable on ZoomFred actually isn't that heavy. It is slightly stiff but only up until the Y-splitter. I can use them portably without any problems. The cable on Red Dragon is something like 3 times as thick as on ZoomFred and from the Y-spillter the same stiff Cardas cable as is used on Zen Black (and CAX Black) is used. Red Dragon is only for use at home and when you do not move about a lot. But RD truly is amazing. At almost 1/3 the price of Red Dragon, I still think that ZoomFred is really great (with really well textured bass with deep sub bass).



He also has a Zoomfred pro, with below cable and other driver. Said to have better control from subbass to low mids


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 1, 2018)

palestofwhite said:


> Maaybe
> This is interesting... seems like many have jumped on the bandwagon...
> Anyone here ordered one yet?



Maaybe 

Metal shell earbud for $20 seems like a good investment and if it sounds anything like ebx it'll be nice to hear.


----------



## chinmie

Danneq said:


> The treble on Moondrop Liebesleid is about as much as I can take when it comes to analytical. Unfortunately Liebesleid is a bit too focused on highs and lacking in bass for my tastes.



only the Liebesleid can tickle my treble crave. it also can take bass boost with ease to cover everything. i won't let it go unless something can beat the liebesleid in it's own game. my next target is finding an IEM with the same analytical characteristics..I'm eyeing on the Sony Ex1000


----------



## chinmie (Sep 1, 2018)

palestofwhite said:


> This is interesting... seems like many have jumped on the bandwagon...
> Anyone here ordered one yet?



younger brother of EBX. . just how much younger  that is the question


----------



## HungryPanda

Datura X perhaps


----------



## chaiyuta

handwander said:


> Someone run my life for me and tell me what Yuin shell bud I should get that is
> 
> a. an upgrade over the panda pk2s
> b. slightly more expensive (maybe double its price or so) but nothing like $60 to $100



How about Kryptonite 32 Ohm or 150 Ohm by Crystalcore Audio? I ever tried 32 Ohm version but that time I tried it with a cheapo FM player (and after that my friend informed me that the sponges I tried deteriorated) so my impression is not solid, It has quite mid-centric orient with realistic and natural tone (tend to warm). Though my friend who had a chance to tried both decided to purchase on 150 Ohm version instead of SWD2+. Its cable is look alike SWD2+'s cable but it is more glossy. 


 

By the way, Last week, I had a chance to trail-listening on two Blur earbuds which thier tuning is conducted by JABEN request. I tried them with lootoo PAW 5000 MKII.


 

1) Blur Half/Half 3.5mm plug : Not bad, but nothing impresses me too. it is heavily mid-centric and relatively quite narrow soundstage from my familarity.
2) Blur Silver Flagship 2.5mm plug : Nice and high headroom. Higher detail and vocal texture than Blur Half/Half. I am pretty surprised on this one cause Among I've ever tried Blur earbuds (I ever tried Blur SPC too), this one don't give me such a negative feeling. Though Its price tag is very steep.


 

P.S. Chote earbuds sponges V2 are just launched 2-3 days ago with the description that each color has different sound-sig.


----------



## Danneq

knudsen said:


> I think the silver wire is normally used for the ground
> 
> 
> 
> He also has a Zoomfred pro, with below cable and other driver. Said to have better control from subbass to low mids



Didn't know about that one! But Herry keeps coming up with new stuff all the time. Regular ZoomFred is pretty damn good to start with.


----------



## ClieOS

chinmie said:


> younger brother of EBX. . just how much younger  that is the question



There has been "talks" over the last few weeks among the Chinese about the imminent release of a new earbud model from NiceHCK, called EB2.


----------



## 40760

I hope it's a new original product by NiceHCK and not another brand product that sounds like EBX...


----------



## activatorfly

palestofwhite said:


> This is interesting... seems like many have jumped on the bandwagon...
> Anyone here ordered one yet?


Can you post the link please?


----------



## golov17

activatorfly said:


> Can you post the link please?


2018 NICEHCK 8.28th SALE Fukubukuro
http://s.aliexpress.com/6JjiIBJf


----------



## activatorfly

golov17 said:


> 2018 NICEHCK 8.28th SALE Fukubukuro
> http://s.aliexpress.com/6JjiIBJf


Thanks a lot!


----------



## McCol

chinmie said:


> only the Liebesleid can tickle my treble crave. it also can take bass boost with ease to cover everything. i won't let it go unless something can beat the liebesleid in it's own game. my next target is finding an IEM with the same analytical characteristics..I'm eyeing on the Sony Ex1000



Depending on your budget the AKG N5005 or the IMR R1 May well suit your needs. 

I won’t go into detail here as don’t want to derail the thread but can give details via PM or check the threads, both excellent iem’s that I find surpassed my EX1000 experience.


----------



## doggiemom

knudsen said:


> He also has a Zoomfred pro, with below cable and other driver. Said to have better control from subbass to low mids


I did not know this!    My wallet wishes that I did not know this!  

I picked up the CampFred White from the PO last week.  Unfortunately haven't  had much of a chance to listen to them yet, but plan to this weekend.


----------



## Danneq

doggiemom said:


> I did not know this!    My wallet wishes that I did not know this!
> 
> I picked up the CampFred White from the PO last week.  Unfortunately haven't  had much of a chance to listen to them yet, but plan to this weekend.



I had no idea as well. Herry keeps on tinkering and improving the different Cypherus earbuds all the time. He said nothing about the ZF pro when I bought ZF and met him in Tokyo in the beginning of July.

Well, still I've got my pair of TM9 on the way. And I'm looking forward to your impressions on White Campfred!


----------



## knudsen (Sep 1, 2018)

Danneq said:


> I had no idea as well. Herry keeps on tinkering and improving the different Cypherus earbuds all the time. He said nothing about the ZF pro when I bought ZF and met him in Tokyo in the beginning of July.
> 
> Well, still I've got my pair of TM9 on the way. And I'm looking forward to your impressions on White Campfred!



I've only read about 1 other pair, a guy in the EA group. Though his does'nt have the same cable as mine will have (the one I posted), so who knows how "official" it is, or if its more of a prototype/custom/limited ed, which may turn "official" if there is enough demand


----------



## silverfishla

golov17 said:


> 2018 NICEHCK 8.28th SALE Fukubukuro
> http://s.aliexpress.com/6JjiIBJf


I just decided to take a chance and buy this.  I hope it’s good and I don’t end up getting ***’d in the ubukuro!


----------



## mbwilson111

silverfishla said:


> I just decided to take a chance and buy this.  I hope it’s good and I don’t end up getting ***’d in the ubukuro!



Me too.  Will be interesting to see what it looks like...and sounds like.


----------



## DAndrew

knudsen said:


> I've only read about 1 other pair, a guy in the EA group. Though his does'nt have the same cable as mine will have (the one I posted), so who knows how "official" it is, or if its more of a prototype/custom/limited ed, which may turn "official" if there is enough demand



How much did this "pro" version cost you? I know the regular is like 250 without shipping


----------



## DAndrew

Do you guys know if that type of "lucky bag" type of thing happened in the past? If so, was the item worth it?


----------



## knudsen

DAndrew said:


> How much did this "pro" version cost you? I know the regular is like 250 without shipping


If I remember correctly it was something like 
+30$ for balanced
+30$ for cable
+30$ for driver
+ the usual shipping/paypal

So, a lot 

But ask Herry to be sure


----------



## DAndrew

knudsen said:


> If I remember correctly it was something like
> +30$ for balanced
> +30$ for cable
> +30$ for driver
> ...



The cable and jack upgrades I knew , but 30$ for an upgraded driver? That is quite reasonable...unlike the 30$ for a balanced jack

Thanks, please dont forget to post your impressions of it!


----------



## knudsen

knudsen said:


> If I remember correctly it was something like
> +30$ for balanced
> +30$ for cable
> +30$ for driver
> ...



Btw, I save 5% on every paypal transaction by selecting that I want my card provider (= my bank) to do the exchange from USD to local currency.

Its the same for both paypal and amazon: they cheat like crazy with the exchange rate. Always select to use your bank for the exchange, thats my experience at least. Paypal/amazon write some leading text that will make you feel the total will be much more uncertain, but it will end up much cheaper


----------



## activatorfly

silverfishla said:


> I just decided to take a chance and buy this.  I hope it’s good and I don’t end up getting ***’d in the ubukuro!


Ditto!


----------



## activatorfly

However Jim invariably releases quality gear - so the promise of a "sub-flagship earbud" alone justifies the minimal cost imho! (- fingers crossed for EB2!)


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 1, 2018)

activatorfly said:


> However Jim invariably releases quality gear - so the promise of a "sub-flagship earbud" alone justifies the minimal cost imho! (- fingers crossed for EB2!)



I do not think he would be doing this if he was not confident that people will like it.  He cares about his reputation.  

Whatever it is, further down the page it gives specs... it will be 32 ohm and will be meant to be worn over ear.


----------



## DAndrew

mbwilson111 said:


> I do not think he would be doing this if he was not confident that people will like it.  He cares about his reputation.
> 
> Whatever it is, further down the page it gives specs... it will be 32 ohm and will be meant to be worn over ear.



I wonder how much he cares about people. I bought a cheap earbud case from their store a couple years back and it got lost in the mail, I sent them a message and explained the situation and that I will still give them 5 starts and that I would not ask for a refund ( was like 0.8$ ) but that if they could ship another one that I would appreciate it ( that one reached me ). After that I got banned from their store and when I figured it out why I couldnt buy , I messaged them about the ban and I got banned from sending them messages as well...very disappointed that they got mad over 0.8$


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 1, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I do not think he would be doing this if he was not confident that people will like it.  He cares about his reputation.
> 
> Whatever it is, further down the page it gives specs... it will be 32 ohm and will be meant to be worn over ear.


And the fact that it's $20 is a fairly low risk gamble for most of us. Let's just pray and hope its the second coming of the EBX or something haha!


DAndrew said:


> I wonder how much he cares about people. I bought a cheap earbud case from their store a couple years back and it got lost in the mail, I sent them a message and explained the situation and that I will still give them 5 starts and that I would not ask for a refund ( was like 0.8$ ) but that if they could ship another one that I would appreciate it ( that one reached me ). After that I got banned from their store and when I figured it out why I couldnt buy , I messaged them about the ban and I got banned from sending them messages as well...very disappointed that they got mad over 0.8$


I have a feeling i got temp banned once over an earbud with a faulty driver (under $20 earbud) but i asked him why i couldn't buy from his store and then suddenly i could again. Maybe it was a system error though. Jim is fine but i wouldn't say he went out of his way to help me as a customer whereas some other sellers are more accommodating especially when you try to make a custom order or get a better deal for buying a bulk of items from one store.

I cannot say he has done anything particularly awful or anything like that and i may not have been banned but i guess everyone can have a bad experience with any seller now and again.

I think penon audio and shozy have been my best overall experience so far and some other AE sellers.

Oh also Willsound!


----------



## miroslav

And I have just found out that our favorite Ali store has put my little country on DHL only regime. No free shipping option anymore. As of today, Vido would cost me mere $89.23..

It looked business as usual during the latest sale. I have no idea what happened. 

I hope it's temporary


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> And the fact that it's $20 is a fairly low risk gamble for most of us. Let's just pray and hope its the second coming of the EBX or something haha!
> 
> I have a feeling i got temp banned once over an earbud with a faulty driver (under $20 earbud) but i asked him why i couldn't buy from his store and then suddenly i could again. Maybe it was a system error though. Jim is fine but i wouldn't say he went out of his way to help me as a customer whereas some other sellers are more accommodating especially when you try to make a custom order or get a better deal for buying a bulk of items from one store.
> 
> ...



It was just suddenly and for such a petty reason. Like what kind of store are you when you ban people over 0.8$ ? Either way I will also buy it, curious about what it is


----------



## seanc6441

Gonna be making some earbuds soon, here's some of the parts I ordered


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> Gonna be making some earbuds soon, here's some of the parts I ordered



What drivers are those? From Chitty?


----------



## seanc6441

DAndrew said:


> What drivers are those? From Chitty?


Yes the 400 ohm graphene drivers


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> Yes the 400 ohm graphene drivers



Best of luck!


----------



## seanc6441

DAndrew said:


> Best of luck!


Thx i  bought a bundle of emx500 vido mx760 graphene drivers in bulk to give me an idea of what the shell/cover/cable combinations will do to the sound and then ill attempt to tune the 400ohm driver after when have a better idea of the tuning capabilities.


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> Thx i  bought a bundle of emx500 vido mx760 graphene drivers in bulk to give me an idea of what the shell/cover/cable combinations will do to the sound and then ill attempt to tune the 400ohm driver after when have a better idea of the tuning capabilities.



Its gonna be hard to tune them with those shells imo, unless you drill them


----------



## seanc6441

DAndrew said:


> Its gonna be hard to tune them with those shells imo, unless you drill them


Ill be drilling them if i need vents yeah, they are made of copper according to the seller. Possibly brass though if the translation wasn't accurate.


----------



## ClieOS (Sep 1, 2018)

palestofwhite said:


> I hope it's a new original product by NiceHCK and not another brand product that sounds like EBX...



NVM, I got what you're saying now.


----------



## 40760

Decided not to order... and at least wait to see what it is first...


----------



## ClieOS

Reterminated the TM9 to balanced, smooth as silk!


----------



## redkingjoe

ClieOS said:


> Reterminated the TM9 to balanced, smooth as silk!



Would you try to use this cable? It is supposed to be one of the best!


----------



## ClieOS

redkingjoe said:


> Would you try to use this cable? It is supposed to be one of the best!



No, I would not - and for a very simple reason: I _hate_ thick cable..You can give me one for free and I won't even accept it.


----------



## seanc6441

redkingjoe said:


> Would you try to use this cable? It is supposed to be one of the best!


Is that a built in resistor unit to change the impendance of the cable?


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> Is that a built in resistor unit to change the impendance of the cable?



This is not the first time you've asked... I hope you can get an answer this time...


----------



## golov17

palestofwhite said:


> This is not the first time you've asked... I hope you can get an answer this time...


a secret bulb of snake oil can be?


----------



## ClieOS (Sep 2, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Is that a built in resistor unit to change the impendance of the cable?



Why would there be any change of resistance / impedance for a headphone cable?

Also, am I currect to assume this particular cable is mod'ed? As my little research into this cable shows that it should have a balanced XLR connector on one end and HD800 connector on the others. TRS and MMCX are certainly not official.


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> Decided not to order... and at least wait to see what it is first...



I am happy to have my order in... 163 sold, 35 available now.   No way to know for sure if it will or if it won't be available later.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...28th-SALE-Fukubukuro/1825606_32917468583.html


----------



## DAndrew

golov17 said:


> a secret bulb of snake oil can be?



This is the answer


----------



## rkw (Sep 2, 2018)

redkingjoe said:


> Would you try to use this cable? It is supposed to be one of the best!


Their HD800 headphone cable is $1000. They also have $55,000 speaker cables and $26,000 interconnect cables.
Consider me to be skeptical about this company (Siltech).


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Wow! Just spent 10 grueling minutes putting donuts on some Monk + earbuds. My fingers and wrist still hurt. LOL I thinks it would be way easier to stick a regular foam on it and then cut the hole out. 

Anyway is there anything emx500 with mmcx? I actually love the sound of the 500 but the cable is kind of thin, flimsy and noisy. Would love to be able to use some of my balanced cables ect.


----------



## mbwilson111

BadReligionPunk said:


> Wow! Just spent 10 grueling minutes putting donuts on some Monk + earbuds. My fingers and wrist still hurt. LOL I thinks it would be way easier to stick a regular foam on it and then cut the hole out.



Sadly, it takes me longer than that to put regular foams on any earbud.  No point in putting donuts on for me... they end up totally out of position after I have tried to wear the bud.   I would  have to glue them on!


----------



## chinmie

golov17 said:


> a secret bulb of snake oil can be?



snake oil is good for muscle soreness. so this one might work wonders for ear fatigue


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> Is that a built in resistor unit to change the impendance of the cable?


Resistance is to DC currents as impedance is to AC currents, so no.  Here is a brief explanation:
http://www.bcae1.com/resvsimp.htm


----------



## Narayan23

redkingjoe said:


> Would you try to use this cable? It is supposed to be one of the best!



That´s a Siltech Duchess Crown and is worth over €1000, I´d be scratching my crown if someone was bold enough to put it on an earbud...then again a Duchess and a (red)King would go well together so I won´t say a thing if you decide to splash the cash


----------



## rkw

Narayan23 said:


> That´s a Siltech SillyTech Duchess Crown and is worth over €1000


Fixed it.

That's a bargain compared to some of their other products.
https://www.thecableco.com/triple-crown-speaker-cable-pair.html


----------



## activatorfly

rkw said:


> Fixed it.
> 
> That's a bargain compared to some of their other products.
> https://www.thecableco.com/triple-crown-speaker-cable-pair.html


I'd want to hear the voice of god for that amount of money! lol


----------



## DBaldock9

While they're on sale at AliExpress  I went ahead and ordered a couple of earbuds:
. 
Svara-L, 32Ω - (I already have the 115Ω model)
RYGMR RY4S (UE cable), 32Ω


----------



## chinmie

DBaldock9 said:


> While they're on sale at AliExpress  I went ahead and ordered a couple of earbuds:
> .
> Svara-L, 32Ω - (I already have the 115Ω model)
> RYGMR RY4S (UE cable), 32Ω



didn't get the svara pro too? so you can do a big comparison between them


----------



## DBaldock9

chinmie said:


> didn't get the svara pro too? so you can do a big comparison between them



I didn't, since at least one of the comments I've seen, is that the Pro version has less Bass.


----------



## redkingjoe

seanc6441 said:


> Is that a built in resistor unit to change the impendance of the cable?



Don’t know!? It must be some kind of snake oil inside!

Ten years ago when I bought a powercord from them( ruby mountain), they have similar thing on the powercord.


----------



## redkingjoe

ClieOS said:


> No, I would not - and for a very simple reason: I _hate_ thick cable..You can give me one for free and I won't even accept it.



The cable look thick, but it is very light.

I’m about to buy it before the year end.


----------



## redkingjoe

ClieOS said:


> Why would there be any change of resistance / impedance for a headphone cable?
> 
> Also, am I currect to assume this particular cable is mod'ed? As my little research into this cable shows that it should have a balanced XLR connector on one end and HD800 connector on the others. TRS and MMCX are certainly not official.



It’s a mod one!

The sound is so good that a lot of people in our community buy and mod it to become a MMCX using high end connectors. 

comparing sound quality of cables with mmcx is so efficient! All it takes is a Sunday gathering!


----------



## redkingjoe

rkw said:


> Their HD800 headphone cable is $1000. They also have $55,000 speaker cables and $26,000 interconnect cables.
> Consider me to be skeptical about this company (Siltech).



The Siltech headphone single-ended cable is selling at us$650 ( balance is more expensive) now in Hong Kong! 

But it will cost around us$100-150 to convert to mmcx ( depending on the quality of the plugs).


----------



## TLDRonin (Sep 3, 2018)

Just ordered the fukubukuro and now theres 19 left. "Fukubukuro" is used for new years mystery bags, but I'm not complaining. Excited to hear how it sounds


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> I am happy to have my order in... 163 sold, 35 available now.   No way to know for sure if it will or if it won't be available later.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...28th-SALE-Fukubukuro/1825606_32917468583.html



Despite having told myself not to buy any more buds, I was unable to resist this one. It's on its way, apparently.


----------



## activatorfly

TLDRonin said:


> Just ordered the fukubukuro and now theres 19 left. "Fukubukuro" is used for new years mystery bags, but I'm not complaining. Excited to hear how it sounds


18 left...looking forward to first review of them!


----------



## fairx

Found my last pristine VE thin foam. Perfect match. Smoother mids and high, better at high listening volume. Minimal bloat in bass and it does dig lower.


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> Despite having told myself not to buy any more buds, I was unable to resist this one. It's on its way, apparently.



Only 10 left now!


----------



## waynes world

BloodyPenguin said:


> Sounds really good and it is priced well.
> 
> I'm planning on doing a full review soon.  But basically they have a very enjoyable smooth sound, with nice detail.  Bass is nicely controlled.



I'm tempted with the Linsound BLD 150ohm after reading your review and seeing them on massdrop for $27.99. I like that they are balanced, and also that you like how they sound off of the ES100. Hmm!


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> While they're on sale at AliExpress  I went ahead and ordered a couple of earbuds:
> .
> Svara-L, 32Ω - (I already have the 115Ω model)
> RYGMR RY4S (UE cable), 32Ω



Looking forward to your impressions of the Svara L 

But, you'd better like them!


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> I'm tempted with the Linsound BLD 150ohm after reading your review and seeing them on massdrop for $27.99. I like that they are balanced, and also that you like how they sound off of the ES100. Hmm!



Did you order your fukubukuro yet?  Only 9 remaining...


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> Did you order your fukubukuro yet?  Only 9 remaining...



You're not swearing at me again, are you? 

What's the deal with those fukubukuro's? Do you know if it will it be a known bud, or something new?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 3, 2018)

waynes world said:


> You're not swearing at me again, are you?
> 
> What's the deal with those fukubukuro's? Do you know if it will it be a known bud, or something new?



It should be something new.  Possibly a scaled down EBX type.  Probably something made by NiceHCK.   There are a few clues on the page... it will be metal, a baby brother to the EBX and the specs say 32 ohm, 3.5mm plug, no mic...also I think it is over ear.. which I have never had before in a bud.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...28th-SALE-Fukubukuro/1825606_32917468583.html

fukubukuro means mystery bag or lucky bag.. I think it is something commonly done for the new year normally.


----------



## waynes world

waynes world said:


> I'm tempted with the Linsound BLD 150ohm after reading your review and seeing them on massdrop for $27.99. I like that they are balanced, and also that you like how they sound off of the ES100. Hmm!



And here is @Hawaiibadboy 's youtube review.


----------



## bonson

waynes world said:


> And here is @Hawaiibadboy 's youtube review.


Cklewis on ali seems to sells the same model for $21.75 . Can't guaranty it s the exact same model  but they look very similar. Same look, same specifications....


----------



## waynes world

bonson said:


> Cklewis on ali seems to sells the same model for $21.75 . Can't guaranty it s the exact same model  but they look very similar. Same look, same specifications....



Thanks. Do you have a link? (I can't find it).


----------



## bonson

waynes world said:


> Thanks. Do you have a link? (I can't find it).



https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/New-...000&pvid=2621cb94-224c-4fd6-aae4-f6a93c41711a


----------



## waynes world (Sep 3, 2018)

bonson said:


> https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/New-...000&pvid=2621cb94-224c-4fd6-aae4-f6a93c41711a



Thanks. And here it is in English (and without the redirect stuff):
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...uds-Heavy-Bass-Sound/1727211_32840130541.html

They do look suspiciously similar don't they!

Edit: seriously, how can those not be the same earbud?

The above link is for the FENGRU DIY PK1 2.5mm Balance 150ohm.

The below link is for the Linsoul BLD 150ohm:
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...4-4mm-2-5mm-Balanced/2894006_32869327378.html

Both ads even sport the Walnut player lol.

If anyone knows that those are NOT the same buds and that they sound different, please let me know. Otherwise, I'm leaning towards getting those FENGRU's. Thanks!


----------



## blackberriesandthinkpads (Sep 3, 2018)

Danneq said:


> Cool! Sounds like TM9 is right up my alley (and that I might skip EBX just like I'll skip SWD2+ because of the sharp highs). Unfortunately I am very sensitive to sharp treble.
> 
> My pair of TM9 has arrived in Sweden. Only 3 days from Thailand! Now I'll probably have to wait 2+ weeks while Swedish customs and Postnord act like the incompetents they are...
> 
> ...



Hope you get them soon! I also don't like sharp highs so we may have a similar sound preference.

Was considering the Shozy BK, it didn't seem bad at all, but the comparisons of how great the sound stage of other TOTL buds turned me off from them. Soundstage is good for movies, I think I'd like a big sound stage, I loved my Fidelio X2HRs.

I actually only use my phones at home, but I like the versatility of a simple light cable. Less ear strain, can lay upside down on the couch, falling asleep in bed, chase the car around the house, etc. I'm lazy, and like simple. Sounds like the Red Dragon probably isn't for me. I'll research the Zoomfred some more though. Honestly though I'm hoping the TM9 is all it seems cracked up to be, sort of leaning that way.



bonson said:


> @blackberriesandthinkpads
> Bass, sub bass, movie... Have you tried Willsound MK2? You could really be surprised for these characteritics  if you don't already own them...I really enjoy them alongside with other TOTL earbuds



Sounds tempting, but for simplicity's sake I only want to own want set of phones, I find it distracting to have multiple sets, I'd spend too much time fiddling between them than actually enjoying them. Due to their price point I'm guessing these aren't TOTL?



knudsen said:


> He also has a Zoomfred pro, with below cable and other driver. Said to have better control from subbass to low mids



Thanks for the heads up!



ClieOS said:


> Reterminated the TM9 to balanced, smooth as silk!



How'd going balanced affect the sound?

Can someone measure the OD (overall diameter, external) of their Blox TM9 for me?


----------



## ValSilva (Sep 3, 2018)

My vote for NICEHCK Fukubukuro goes to this:



NICEHCK EP35 In Ear Earphone Single Dynamic Drive HIFI Metal Earphone High Resolution Monitor Headset Detachable MMCX Cable
http://s.aliexpress.com/JVjEbIJN?fromSns


----------



## cathee

bonson said:


> Cklewis on ali seems to sells the same model for $21.75 . Can't guaranty it s the exact same model  but they look very similar. Same look, same specifications....



I got them a bout a week or so ago on Amazon from $29.99 (with some sort of coupon), should be getting my hands on them just shortly after Labor Day weekend. Can't wait.


----------



## mbwilson111

ValSilva said:


> My vote for NICEHCK Fukubukuro goes to this:
> 
> 
> NICEHCK EP35 In Ear Earphone Single Dynamic Drive HIFI Metal Earphone High Resolution Monitor Headset Detachable MMCX Cable
> http://s.aliexpress.com/JVjEbIJN?fromSns



There is enough info on the page to indicate this Fukubukurois a bud not an iem.


----------



## ValSilva

mbwilson111 said:


> There is enough info on the page to in



Sorry! MB, you're right. 
I didn't see the "earbud" type on description. Tks.


----------



## ClieOS

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> How'd going balanced affect the sound?
> 
> Can someone measure the OD (overall diameter, external) of their Blox TM9 for me?



Smoother and wider, but only in minor terms.

It uses the standard MX500 shell, so it is about 16.9mm in diameter.


----------



## mbwilson111

ValSilva said:


> Sorry! MB, you're right.
> I didn't see the "earbud" type on description. Tks.



Are you getting one?  Only 6 available now.


----------



## ValSilva

mbwilson111 said:


> Are you getting one? Only 6 available now.


No, I'm saving to buy the Masya next month.


----------



## toear

I jumped in on the fukubukuro... Sucker for the mystery I guess... Lol!

Was also conspiring the EBX at one point...


----------



## mbwilson111

toear said:


> I jumped in on the fukubukuro... Sucker for the mystery I guess... Lol!
> 
> Was also conspiring the EBX at one point...



I don't think we will be disappointed


----------



## blackberriesandthinkpads

ClieOS said:


> Smoother and wider, but only in minor terms.
> 
> It uses the standard MX500 shell, so it is about 16.9mm in diameter.



Good to know it's minor, so I don't feel bad about using unbalanced if I end up getting them.

Does the Monk+ use the MX500 shell? Pictures look similar. I measured my Monk+ to be 17mm with a pair of calipers, but my Monk+ has very bad mold marks on it, can account for the 0.1mm, have yet to sand them down.


----------



## mbwilson111

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> Does the Monk+ use the MX500 shell?



Yes it does.


----------



## ValSilva

ValSilva said:


> No, I'm saving to buy the Masya next month.



MB, I could not resist  now it's _4 pieces_ _available_! But ok, it will be enough money to buy the Masya too, next month.


----------



## mbwilson111

ValSilva said:


> MB, I could not resist  now it's _4 pieces_ _available_! But ok, it will be enough money to buy the Masya too, next month.



I have heard the Masya.  My husband has it and I borrowed it one night.  I loved it but he would not let me keep it!


----------



## toear

mbwilson111 said:


> I don't think we will be disappointed


Fingers crossed!!!... And... Waiting.....


----------



## ValSilva

mbwilson111 said:


> I have heard the Masya. My husband has it and I borrowed it one night. I loved it but he would not let me keep it!



I'm just a little concerned about the QC issues from Rose, but I'll try anyway. Your husband, wise man, don't let MB take it


----------



## mbwilson111

ValSilva said:


> I'm just a little concerned about the QC issues from Rose, but I'll try anyway. Your husband, wise man, don't let MB take it



Have others reported  issues with the Masya?


----------



## seanc6441

ValSilva said:


> I'm just a little concerned about the QC issues from Rose, but I'll try anyway. Your husband, wise man, don't let MB take it


Masya with multi hole hiegi is exquisite if you don't mind slightly lighter bass and low mids.


----------



## ValSilva

seanc6441 said:


> Masya with multi hole hiegi is exquisite if you don't mind slightly lighter bass and low mids.


And what about the vocals? They sounded forward? I don't like recessed vocals, cause I'll crank the volume and it's not good.


----------



## ValSilva

mbwilson111 said:


> Have others reported issues with the Masya?


Ryan, for example, said that "left earpiece was reversed":
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/rose-masya.22316/reviews?page=1
But I think this version it's now better than the older one, the description said [Penon - Aliexpress] "Earphone Shell is using the new 3d printing technology". Anyway, I'll give it a try!


----------



## gattari (Sep 3, 2018)

Finally I found the earbuds of my life 
Thanks Golov


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 3, 2018)

ValSilva said:


> And what about the vocals? They sounded forward? I don't like recessed vocals, cause I'll crank the volume and it's not good.


Euphoric. Some of the most clear and perfectly positioned vocal earbuds in it's price range. Yes it's forward but with nice space around it. It's a little bright in the upper mids but the mutli hole custom foams really balance it out at the expense of some air. Treble is clear and the response isn't linear but curved in a very musical way with sparkle.

Might sound it's best on a fuller source to really bring out some weight in the lower frequencies.


----------



## mochill

gattari said:


> Finally I found the earbuds of my life
> Thanks Golov


Which earbuds


----------



## gattari (Sep 4, 2018)

mochill said:


> Which earbuds


My ears love every aspect of this earbuds:
- Nicehck graphene

https://m.facebook.com/groups/Earbu...oup_header&view=permalink&id=781339155380983&


----------



## golov17

gattari said:


> Finally I found the earbuds of my life
> Thanks Golov


----------



## 40760

Mystery bag officially sold out today! Well to do those who ordered... and well done to myself for being able to control myself this time round...


----------



## euge (Sep 4, 2018)

palestofwhite said:


> Mystery bag officially sold out today! Well to do those who ordered... and well done to myself for being able to control myself this time round...



Hahahah same, thanks to tm9 

It was very close I'm glad it's sold out now...


----------



## vladstef

palestofwhite said:


> Mystery bag officially sold out today! Well to do those who ordered... and well done to myself for being able to control myself this time round...



They only had DHL which was 75$ to Serbia. I contacted Jim and he added regular free shipping so I managed to get one. Kinda excited for nothing probably 

On the other hand, NiceHCK is becoming something of a standard with good examples of solid customer support.


----------



## ValSilva

seanc6441 said:


> Euphoric. Some of the most clear and perfectly positioned vocal earbuds in it's price range. Yes it's forward but with nice space around it. It's a little bright in the upper mids but the mutli hole custom foams really balance it out at the expense of some air. Treble is clear and the response isn't linear but curved in a very musical way with sparkle.
> 
> Might sound it's best on a fuller source to really bring out some weight in the lower frequencies.


Oh man, I liked very much. Tks a lot  I'm sure I'll love this Earbud.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 4, 2018)

ValSilva said:


> Oh man, I liked very much. Tks a lot  I'm sure I'll love this Earbud.



The night that I was able to spend a few hours listening to the Masya, I was using it straight out of my Cayin N3 which I know you also have.  I never even added an amp (I could have) but I see you have a nice one to try  I think you will be happy.

Edit:  Now I want to listen to it again


----------



## waynes world

palestofwhite said:


> Mystery bag officially sold out today! Well to do those who ordered... and well done to myself for being able to control myself this time round...



Darn! I snoozed, I loozed... something!


----------



## waynes world

gattari said:


> My ears love every aspect of this earbuds:
> - Nicehck graphene
> 
> https://m.facebook.com/groups/Earbu...oup_header&view=permalink&id=781339155380983&



Yup, those are the $29 graphenes. I love them also and miss them (mine broke). Gonna have to pick up another pair!


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Darn! I snoozed, I loozed... something!



You did... I know you did!  You had plenty of time!


----------



## mochill

Ibasso dx120 on sell for $299 on penon audio


----------



## chinmie

New addition: Willsound MK1 and MK3 MMCX. these will be my main mobile buds


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> You did... I know you did!  You had plenty of time!



I did not! Things came up yesterday, so I was going to get "them" (whatever they are) and those FENGRU DIY PK1 2.5mm Balance 150ohm's this morning. In summary, I snoozed!

But I hope that you really enjoy "them"


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> I did not! Things came up yesterday, so I was going to get "them" (whatever they are) and those FENGRU DIY PK1 2.5mm Balance 150ohm's this morning. In summary, I snoozed!
> 
> But I hope that you really enjoy "them"



you could contact the seller and beg... maybe he has a few held back... I would if I were him.


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> I did not! Things came up yesterday, so I was going to get "them" (whatever they are) and those FENGRU DIY PK1 2.5mm Balance 150ohm's this morning. In summary, I snoozed!
> 
> But I hope that you really enjoy "them"



to remedy your missing out, the Datura X is worth checking


----------



## silverfishla

chinmie said:


> to remedy your missing out, the Datura X is worth checking


Datura X is my new king in the $20 range, if not above.  It's killer!


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> you could contact the seller and beg... maybe he has a few held back... I would if I were him.



I'm not above begging 



chinmie said:


> to remedy your missing out, the Datura X is worth checking





silverfishla said:


> Datura X is my new king in the $20 range, if not above.  It's killer!



And I'm not above being influenced by either of you lol. I will look into them!


----------



## Lothar101

Has anyone done a review on the Datura X yet?


----------



## waynes world

bhima said:


> Ok ya'll, be prepared for a wall of text because, here comes my
> *HEADPHONE SHOWDOWN
> 
> 
> ...




If I ever post a comparison like that, I'll be impressed with myself! Kudos.


----------



## silverfishla

Lothar101 said:


> Has anyone done a review on the Datura X yet?


No review necessary, just a green light!  Haha.


----------



## mochill

chinmie said:


> to remedy your missing out, the Datura X is worth checking


TM9 is all you need


----------



## HungryPanda

Save money...... Datura-X


----------



## toear

I read on the description page of the Datura-X that it is bass-light, but I believe I also read a review that it has good bass amount/impact...?! Can anyone clarify? My reference for 'good bass' in an earphone is the HE 150 PRO. 

Thanks!


----------



## HungryPanda

Bass is fine once you fiddle around and get a good fit


----------



## toear

k thx!


----------



## subwoof3r (Sep 4, 2018)

Ok done folks ! TM9 reached my favorite earbuds of all time ! 

After 150 hours+ of proper burning, I will sum-up TM9 as the following:

Coherent, large and deep soundstage (without being extreme) which really helps focusing to the original record. Very transparent and natural sounding. Powerful low frequencies (subbass too) but nicely controlled (which almost reach my Fostex headphones TH900 quality). Perfect mids and highs, there is just the right amount (but definitely reach what we can wait of a real TOTL earbud). They can be listened for many hours without any fatigue (also they are extremely light and EMX500 shells are great. Cable is just perfect, very thin and beautifully finished with high-end termination). To finish, they are extremely versatile and will please ALL musical genres. I listened TM9 all day at work and didn’t found any music style that sounded bad on them.

Note that they are every sensitive to source, I found them slightly better sounding on my FiiO E10K instead of my Fostex HP-A8C, as E10K has a neutral/very slightly “fun” sounding which corresponds the best to TM9 (especially helps for the details and highs).

There is something special on these buds, to me it’s like I’m listening to high end headphones, but with an earbud, such incredible sensation that I rarely achieved in the past from all my previous/current earbuds. Unfortunately I can’t remember enough my sold TM7 some years ago as they were my first audiophile earbuds but I didn’t had the good hardware and enough passion to really appreciate them, but one thing is for sure, I regretted to sold them. Now I’m so happy to get these TM9 and they will stay with me forever.

My only regret is that unfortunately they are not MMCX, so you have to be careful when you transport them. I hope and wish that next Blox flagship will get that in a near future.

Cheers’


----------



## Kashtan

Hi to all.
A tried 3 days read this topic, but even now i don`t undrstand, which earbuds The Top at sound.
Blox TM9?
Puresounds PS100-900 Ohm?


----------



## seanc6441

Kashtan said:


> Hi to all.
> A tried 3 days read this topic, but even now i don`t undrstand, which earbuds The Top at sound.
> Blox TM9?
> Puresounds PS100-900 Ohm?


I mean there's so many candidates and different consensus on which is the best.

For the most part people can only agree on which is TOTL or near TOTL level and too few have heard the absolute most expensive buds so the sample group is smaller.


----------



## bhima

toear said:


> I read on the description page of the Datura-X that it is bass-light, but I believe I also read a review that it has good bass amount/impact...?! Can anyone clarify? My reference for 'good bass' in an earphone is the HE 150 PRO.
> 
> Thanks!



Datura is not bass light at all, but it is soundstage light. Everything sounds/feels like it is in your head. These earbuds remind me more of an IEM than an earbud because of this.


----------



## Kashtan

seanc6441 said:


> I mean there's so many candidates and different consensus on which is the best.
> 
> For the most part people can only agree on which is TOTL or near TOTL level and too few have heard the absolute most expensive buds so the sample group is smaller.


It's clear. 
Your opinion?
The options?


----------



## seanc6441

Kashtan said:


> It's clear.
> Your opinion?
> The options?


I've heard, to name a few good ones: K's Black Ling, Rose Mojito, Shozy BK, Rose Masya, Penon BS1 Official.

I'd say the Black Ling is potentially the best, Mojito next. If my BS1 had a stronger sub bass and better comfort id rate it very highly, lovely detail and bright but smooth response for the price. Black Ling sounds like the BS1 with a big bass boost, but it's very pick of foams choice.

Others I haven't heard but are very well regarded include Cypherus Red Dragon, Zoomfred/Pro, Cax Black, Moondrop liebesleid, K's Poseidon, Zen 2.0 black edition, Simphonio Dragon 2+...


----------



## toear

bhima said:


> Datura is not bass light at all, but it is soundstage light. Everything sounds/feels like it is in your head. These earbuds remind me more of an IEM than an earbud because of this.


Ok thanks for the clarification!  I do like a wide soundstage... Guess I'll pass... To bad though. They look nice


----------



## chinmie

mochill said:


> TM9 is all you need



i see that you forgot to tag @waynes world . I'll relay the message 



toear said:


> I read on the description page of the Datura-X that it is bass-light, but I believe I also read a review that it has good bass amount/impact...?! Can anyone clarify? My reference for 'good bass' in an earphone is the HE 150 PRO.
> 
> Thanks!



haven't heard of the HE150 pro yet, but the Datura x has good amount of them (and certainly good impact) that i even sometimes use it without foams. i use thin foams regularly on mine. just be sure not to accidentally cover the vent holes while wearing them. i also like to wear them over ears and they're still comfortable to use like that.

interestingly, from my own experience and also a couple of reviews that I've read about the daturaX, we all wrote the same conclusion: that you can't go wrong with it, especially considering the sub 20 dollar price.


----------



## blackberriesandthinkpads (Sep 4, 2018)

Trying to figure out if my ears are too small for my Monk+, and most buds in this thread. before I drop serious funds on a TOTL bud. Uploaded an image.

I've edited an image of approximated how my bud sits in my ear (blue), and I how I think the bud is supposed to sit in my ear (red). Just pretend both the blue and red bud are the same size.

As you can see, as indicated by the arrow, that part of my ear doesn't allow the bud to fully seat in my ear. Not sure if anyone has ears big enough that actually allow that, or that's just the way buds are supposed to sit. When I force and hold them in with my fingers, and have them seated approximated how the red bud is sitting, sound quality does get better, less "tinny" and more full, though it probably loses soundstage.

So, are my ears too small or is that just how buds are supposed to sit?


----------



## blackberriesandthinkpads (Sep 4, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> Ok done folks ! TM9 reached my favorite earbuds of all time !
> 
> After 150 hours+ of proper burning, I will sum-up TM9 as the following:
> Powerful low frequencies (subbass too) but nicely controlled (which almost reach my Fostex headphones TH900 quality).



Do you know if the bass/sub-bass characteristics of your TH900 are similar to TH-X00 Ebony?

Happy to hear the TM9 has some sub-bass.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 4, 2018)

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> Trying to figure out if my ears are too small for my Monk+, and most buds in this thread. before I drop serious funds on a TOTL bud. Uploaded an image.
> 
> I've edited an image of approximated how my bud sits in my ear (blue), and I how I think the bud is supposed to sit in my ear (red). Just pretend both the blue and red bud are the same size.
> 
> ...


Blue is normal for me, I don't think i have any buds that sit inside the red parameter. If you find the seal lacking use smaller buds with thicker foams to allow some margin for a better seal.

Hiegi full foams, hiegi donuts and VE thick donuts work best for a good seal in my ears with PK and smaller size shells.


----------



## toear

chinmie said:


> haven't heard of the HE150 pro yet, but the Datura x has good amount of them (and certainly good impact) that i even sometimes use it without foams. i use thin foams regularly on mine. just be sure not to accidentally cover the vent holes while wearing them. i also like to wear them over ears and they're still comfortable to use like that.
> 
> interestingly, from my own experience and also a couple of reviews that I've read about the daturaX, we all wrote the same conclusion: that you can't go wrong with it, especially considering the sub 20 dollar price.



How does it compare with your willsound?


----------



## chinmie

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> Trying to figure out if my ears are too small for my Monk+, and most buds in this thread. before I drop serious funds on a TOTL bud. Uploaded an image.
> 
> I've edited an image of approximated how my bud sits in my ear (blue), and I how I think the bud is supposed to sit in my ear (red). Just pretend both the blue and red bud are the same size.
> 
> ...



 

i usually wear them on blue area, and make sure they sit on the yellow area that i draw to make sure it has the best bass vibration, and tilt them slightly pointing the ear canal

infact i don't like the sound of earbuds when i shove them too deep like the red area..  it makes the midbass boomy and muddy-up the whole sound and sacrificing soundstage air. there is a few instances though i put it deeper, usually for earbuds with thin sounding mids (or if the song permits that). but i prefer to remedy that with thicker foams than shoving them deeper.



toear said:


> How does it compare with your willsound?



which one? I'll choose the MK2 for comparison: 
the MK2 have a more raw and open sound to them which i happen to like more, while daturaX have a more well behave sound. MK2 is more like listening to a headphone, while daturaX like listening to an IEM. no better or worse here, depends on preference and occasion. 

sound quality and preference-wise, the Willsound punches really high above their price in SQ in my opinion. 
the Datura is a great package for their price: beautiful build, low profile making them great buds for sleeping, good SQ and nicely tuned, nice solid case. i think it safe to say this is my favorite recommendation for 20usd earbuds


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> i see that you forgot to tag @waynes world . I'll relay the message



Ha ha! As much as I'd like them, they are too rich for me! I have only achieved the "$50 earbud status" level so far. I use and appreciate earbuds just as much as headphones, but for some reason I find it hard to spend as much on buds as on headphones. Maybe in time 



> interestingly, from my own experience and also a couple of reviews that I've read about the daturaX, we all wrote the same conclusion: that you can't go wrong with it, especially considering the sub 20 dollar price.





chinmie said:


> which one? I'll choose the MK2 for comparison:
> the MK2 have a more raw and open sound to them which i happen to like more, while daturaX have a more well behave sound. MK2 is more like listening to a headphone, while daturaX like listening to an IEM. no better or worse here, depends on preference and occasion.
> 
> sound quality and preference-wise, the Willsound punches really high above their price in SQ in my opinion.
> the Datura is a great package for their price: beautiful build, low profile making them great buds for sleeping, good SQ and nicely tuned, nice solid case. i think it safe to say this is my favorite recommendation for 20usd earbuds



That's the challenge for me now. I now listen mainly to the Svara L's and the MK2's and I am completely satisfied with them. Even so, my head-fi consumerism addiction suddenly has kicked in and I am _needing_ to buy something, A "$20 something" will satisfy the itch, But even though the Datura's are only $20, if I appreciate them but end up not listening to them much because I gravitate back to my favorites, then that purchase would be a bit silly. Having said that, I am always on the lookout for "great buds for sleeping", so that may be my excuse! (and I suspect I'd be quite happy with them)

I am also interested in those FENGRU DIY PK1 2.5mm Balance 150oh buds (aka Linsoul BLD 150ohm) because they seem to be a bit more mid-centric which would somewhat different for me and might compliment what I have nicely.

Oh, and I want the Fukubukuro (whatever it is!).


----------



## luedriver

Christmas came early this year 




V.E. Odyssey, BLoX TM9 and V.E. Monk lite 120 ohm


----------



## Ziggomatic

Just got episode three of my recent earbud binge, the TO400s. I'm very happy with them after only a few hours break-in. The bass isn't outstanding, but it sounds great on 90% of what I've thrown at it. Everything else is right where I like it, and very clear & natural sounding. Plays really well with the Mojo. 

These are the first set I've had where I liked the full foams over the donuts. 

Highly recommended.


----------



## chaiyuta

Kashtan said:


> Hi to all.
> A tried 3 days read this topic, but even now i don`t undrstand, which earbuds The Top at sound.
> Blox TM9?
> Puresounds PS100-900 Ohm?


From what I know Puresounds don't make 900 Ohm for sales. The flagship one is PS100-600S + 600-core copper cable.


----------



## chaiyuta

@blackberriesandthinkpads : In case of Meizu EP-21HD, Pk housing and Edifier H180 housing, they can sit in the red-circle of my ears. In case of MX500 housing, it can sit in the blue-circle of my ears. I prefer it sits in the red-circle. Pretty comfort.


----------



## chellity

Hey, does anyone have the e-mail for willsounds/Wong?  my friend in Australia wanted to buy a pair from him, because rholupat won't ship to him apparently.  hopefully Wong will be able to, because I still just love my mk2s so much that I hope he can try them too.


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Ha ha! As much as I'd like them, they are too rich for me! I have only achieved the "$50 earbud status" level so far. I use and appreciate earbuds just as much as headphones, but for some reason I find it hard to spend as much on buds as on headphones. Maybe in time
> 
> 
> 
> ...



yup, i also held back from the TM9 because i think for now i already have more than enough. the daturaX was a really impulsive buying at my part when they sell them at 15usd and i really like the look of them. it turns out to be a great buy, but coming back to the question "do i really need it?", then no, i don't need it . 
teasing aside, i also think between your zen 1,mk2, and svara, this purchase is not necessary (you could if you want them though )


----------



## chinmie

chellity said:


> Hey, does anyone have the e-mail for willsounds/Wong?  my friend in Australia wanted to buy a pair from him, because rholupat won't ship to him apparently.  hopefully Wong will be able to, because I still just love my mk2s so much that I hope he can try them too.



you can contact @WillSound directly, or via his facebook if you want


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> yup, i also held back from the TM9 because i think for now i already have more than enough. the daturaX was a really impulsive buying at my part when they sell them at 15usd and i really like the look of them. it turns out to be a great buy, but coming back to the question "do i really need it?", then no, i don't need it .
> teasing aside, i also think between your zen 1,mk2, and svara, this purchase is not necessary (you could if you want them though )



Settled! I'm going to get them lol!


----------



## subwoof3r

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> Do you know if the bass/sub-bass characteristics of your TH900 are similar to TH-X00 Ebony?
> 
> Happy to hear the TM9 has some sub-bass.


Clearly, and at evidence, earbuds can't reach headphones level in this domain due to driver size, but I really feel like I'm almost listening to my TH900.
Unfortunately I did not had the chance to try to X00 yet, I heard a lot of good things on them, but it seems that bass and sub are the best on fostex flagship TH900.
To compare with other "basshead" earbuds, EMX500S has much more bass (and sub) presence but does not reach TM9 quality in this domain.


----------



## mochill

chinmie said:


> you can contact @WillSound directly, or via his facebook if you want


You also need the TM9


----------



## rkw

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> As you can see, as indicated by the arrow, that part of my ear doesn't allow the bud to fully seat in my ear. Not sure if anyone has ears big enough that actually allow that, or that's just the way buds are supposed to sit. When I force and hold them in with my fingers, and have them seated approximated how the red bud is sitting, sound quality does get better, less "tinny" and more full, though it probably loses soundstage.





seanc6441 said:


> If you find the seal lacking use smaller buds with thicker foams to allow some margin for a better seal.
> 
> Hiegi full foams, hiegi donuts and VE thick donuts work best for a good seal in my ears with PK and smaller size shells.


Also experiment with double foams — try any combination of foams together: full+donut, thick+thin, etc. For most of my earbuds, I need to double the foams to achieve a good seal and secure fit.


----------



## kurtextrem

subwoof3r said:


> They can be listened for many hours without any fatigue (also they are extremely light and EMX500 shells are great.


What makes them extremely light or more comfortable than e.g. the Monk+? (it sounds like it)


----------



## wskl

Willsound MK300, thanks to Willy @WillSound for recommending these to me.


 

OOTB impressions are favourable, after listening for about 90 mins, the first thing that hit me is the soundstage and separation, they are a noticeable step up from my other earbuds.  It just sounds so open and I can hear each instrument more clearly.  Signature is balanced, tonal balance is very pleasing to the ear, I am now beginning to understand why people have been praising Willsound, I think I am becoming a fan.  Listening to these from my Xduoo X3 and Runabout Plus with VE thin foams on the earbuds.  That's all for now, as suggested by Willy, the MK300 needs 100hr burn-in to reach peak performance.


----------



## subwoof3r

kurtextrem said:


> What makes them extremely light or more comfortable than e.g. the Monk+? (it sounds like it)


Clearly, the cable and Y splitter. Cable is extremely light and much better quality (4 core, and I guess full copper) also very flexible and not microphonic at all, while Monk+ use a very standard and common cable and Y-splitter.
Other than that, they use same shells so weight of them is the exact same.


----------



## TLDRonin

I didn't expect it to, but the fukubukuro earbud won't have detachable cables


----------



## chinmie

mochill said:


> You also need the TM9



i think me teasing @waynes world has come back to me in the form of mochill 

say, do you have another TOTL to compare them so i can have a better idea?


----------



## teston

Even I tried out several TOTL buds like SWD2+, Sennheiser  MX985,VE ZOE,Shozy BK,K's 300 Samsara I keep coming back to VE Asura 2.0.
VE Asura 2.0 with ATH foams is truly amazing. Smoothly and detailed with immersive presentation.
I have the feeling that Blox Tm9 is suitable for my taste. Waiting for Blox to release the balance termination so I can jump on the hype train.


----------



## DAndrew

luedriver said:


> Christmas came early this year
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Impressions on the Odyssey? How does it pair with the monk+ and lite? Any change to their sq?


----------



## WillSound

wskl said:


> Willsound MK300, thanks to Willy @WillSound for recommending these to me.
> 
> 
> 
> OOTB impressions are favourable, after listening for about 90 mins, the first thing that hit me is the soundstage and separation, they are a noticeable step up from my other earbuds.  It just sounds so open and I can hear each instrument more clearly.  Signature is balanced, tonal balance is very pleasing to the ear, I am now beginning to understand why people have been praising Willsound, I think I am becoming a fan.  Listening to these from my Xduoo X3 and Runabout Plus with VE thin foams on the earbuds.  That's all for now, as suggested by Willy, the MK300 needs 100hr burn-in to reach peak performance.


very glad to hear u like WillSound, very thankful friend..


----------



## mochill

teston said:


> Even I tried out several TOTL buds like SWD2+, Sennheiser  MX985,VE ZOE,Shozy BK,K's 300 Samsara I keep coming back to VE Asura 2.0.
> VE Asura 2.0 with ATH foams is truly amazing. Smoothly and detailed with immersive presentation.
> I have the feeling that Blox Tm9 is suitable for my taste. Waiting for Blox to release the balance termination so I can jump on the hype train.


The TM9 is more then suitable for your taste friend


----------



## activatorfly

teston said:


> Even I tried out several TOTL buds like SWD2+, Sennheiser  MX985,VE ZOE,Shozy BK,K's 300 Samsara I keep coming back to VE Asura 2.0.
> VE Asura 2.0 with ATH foams is truly amazing. Smoothly and detailed with immersive presentation.
> I have the feeling that Blox Tm9 is suitable for my taste. Waiting for Blox to release the balance termination so I can jump on the hype train.


I agree they would be ideal with a balanced plug!


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Oh, and I want the Fukubukuro (whatever it is!).



Did you send a begging message yet?



waynes world said:


> Settled! I'm going to get them lol!



Wait... What?  the TM9???   My most expensive bud (my Blur Black Panther) is around $100 but that included international shipping and Paypal fees.


----------



## 40760

Does it make sense to want to own a regular Zen 2.0 even after owning a ZOE?


----------



## seanc6441

palestofwhite said:


> Does it make sense to want to own a regular Zen 2.0 even after owning a ZOE?


Not to me but hey you do you my friend 

Maybe you're trying to collect em all^^


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> Not to me but hey you do you my friend
> 
> Maybe you're trying to collect em all^^



I need to see a doctor... fast!


----------



## RobinFood

palestofwhite said:


> Does it make sense to want to own a regular Zen 2.0 even after owning a ZOE?



Makes me wonder what you are trying to find that is missing from the ZOE!
What are your impressions and comparisons to the Asura?


----------



## dheepak10

Got my Airman AHE-150 vented MMCX buds recently.
Costs $49 shipped internationally.
Comes without any cables.

Sound is highly dependent on the quality of cable used.

*Initial impressions:*
Used thin foams, the included ones are quite dense and muffle the sound and make it boomy.

Punchy, fast and ample lows - more than neutral bass. Closet bassheads will be satisfied.
The mids are glorious and stand out well in tracks.
The highs pack good detail without being harsh or sibilant.
The sound stage is simply amazing stretching easy out of your head. They are instantly likable.
Will try to provide a detailed review soon.


----------



## 40760

RobinFood said:


> Makes me wonder what you are trying to find that is missing from the ZOE!
> What are your impressions and comparisons to the Asura?



The Asura 2.0s is quite sterile sounding and has less bass quantity. I find the ZOE much more enjoyable and closer to headphones.

Its higher impedance also lends it more power from good amping, making them feel more effortless and better sounding. 

They've definitely opened me up to the higher impedance (>300ohms) world of earbuds...


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> Not to me but hey you do you my friend
> 
> Maybe you're trying to collect em all^^



BTW, I look forward to your DIY projects with all those parts you've put together and ordered from AE...


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 5, 2018)

I am enjoying my recabled (by @HungryPanda ) Sony Ericsson HPM-64(x3)  Picked up a few colors from Amazon and Ebay for £2 to £3 each.  Red, Orange, Pink.  Also recabled a Red and a Black for himself.   I have a White one sitting here waiting for the cable to arrive.  All of the cables used so far are less than £2 each.  We have a couple of extra pink ones (those were less than £2) that we can take the drivers from in case of a disaster during the soldering process.   Only lost two out of 12 drivers so far... pretty good for the first time.

Recabling is essential.  They are useless without it... unless you have an old Sony Ericsson phone.  I have included the white one that is waiting for a cable in the photo (minus the bulky adapter thingie).  You could put some kind of extender on it but then you still  have to deal with it being a J cable.  This has been practice for some future more serious recabling projects  Best part is... they sound good...to my ears anyway.  I love the cable on the orange one.  Those come in a few colors on aliexpress.  DIY earphone cables.


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> I am enjoying my recabled (by @hungry Panda) Sony Ericsson HPM-64(x3)  Picked up a few colors from Amazon and Ebay for £2 to £3 each.  Red, Orange, Pink.  Also recabled a Red and a Black for himself.   I have a White one sitting here waiting for the cable to arrive.  All of the cables used so far are less than £2 each.  We have a couple of extra pink ones (those were less than £2) that we can take the drivers from in case of a disaster during the soldering process.   Only lost two out of 12 drivers so far... pretty good for the first time.
> 
> Recabling is essential.  They are useless without it... unless you have an old Sony Ericsson phone.  I have included the white one that is waiting for a cable in the photo (minus the bulky adapter thingie).  You could put some kind of extender on it but then you still  have to deal with it being a J cable.  This has been practice for some future more serious recabling projects  Best part is... they sound good...to my ears anyway.  I love the cable on the orange one.  Those come in a few colors on aliexpress.  DIY earphone cables.



These reminded me of the first Sony Ericsson phone I had... I think it's the T610...


----------



## B9Scrambler

mbwilson111 said:


> I am enjoying my recabled (by @hungry Panda) Sony Ericsson HPM-64(x3)  Picked up a few colors from Amazon and Ebay for £2 to £3 each.  Red, Orange, Pink.  Also recabled a Red and a Black for himself.   I have a White one sitting here waiting for the cable to arrive.  All of the cables used so far are less than £2 each.  We have a couple of extra pink ones (those were less than £2) that we can take the drivers from in case of a disaster during the soldering process.   Only lost two out of 12 drivers so far... pretty good for the first time.
> 
> Recabling is essential.  They are useless without it... unless you have an old Sony Ericsson phone.  I have included the white one that is waiting for a cable in the photo (minus the bulky adapter thingie).  You could put some kind of extender on it but then you still  have to deal with it being a J cable.  This has been practice for some future more serious recabling projects  Best part is... they sound good...to my ears anyway.  I love the cable on the orange one.  Those come in a few colors on aliexpress.  DIY earphone cables.



Is that a Marley cable I see on one of them?


----------



## mbwilson111

B9Scrambler said:


> Is that a Marley cable I see on one of them?



Looks like it   This is the link.   You have to say which one you want or they send a random one.  Also, we found out you can only order two at a time to get the free shipping.  Right now we only have the "colorful" one... we wanted to see what the quality was like before ordering more.  We now have two of the grey/silver coming and a separate order with a black and a purple.  One of them will be used with a very nice bud that I have that unfortunately has a very stiff annoying cable.  All this practice will help keep from frying the drivers on that one I hope

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...-Glasses-Light-Small/2195049_32828706035.html


----------



## waynes world (Sep 5, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Did you send a begging message yet?



Begging complete, and gently denied lol

But it seems that whatever they are will be available for sale at some time in the future... for $9.99   (joking)


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 5, 2018)

palestofwhite said:


> These reminded me of the first Sony Ericsson phone I had... I think it's the T610...



Wow... look at the list of Sony Ericssons that the adaptor will fit!  Wonder if anyone wants all the adaptors that we now have and do not need.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005ICZ8YS/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

haha.. the two star review simply states that they are "useless"... I guess that person did not want to recable it  The photos show what you get.


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Begging complete, and gently denied lol
> 
> But it seems that whatever they are will be available for sale at some time in the future... for $9.99



Seriously?  I hope you are joking.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Seriously?  I hope you are joking.


Hope he means some 11.1/ali sale deal because if he starts selling them at 9.99 he's just scammed us lol


----------



## waynes world (Sep 5, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Seriously?  I hope you are joking.



That was a winky face at the end lol, so yes I was joking. But they will be available at some point.


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> That was a winky face at the end lol, so yes I was joking. But they will be available at aimed point.



Whew!!!!  I am guessing they will at least be a bit more than we paid.  You were about to make 200 people very upset!


----------



## toear

waynes world said:


> That was a winky face at the end lol, so yes I was joking. But they will be available at some point.



... for $99.95...


----------



## mbwilson111

toear said:


> ... for $99.95...



We better stop guessing.. don't want to drive the price higher


----------



## toear

mbwilson111 said:


> We better stop guessing.. don't want to drive the price higher


lol! so true!


----------



## waynes world

Got my headfi consumerism itch out of the way and ordered the FAAEAL Datura-X's and the FENGRU DIY PK1 2.5mm balanced 150ohm's (which I'm pretty sure are the same as the Linsoul BLD 150ohm's).

That should do me for a month or so. Well, as long as I don't read @dheepak10's review of the Airman AHE-150 lol.


----------



## rkw

teston said:


> I have the feeling that Blox Tm9 is suitable for my taste. Waiting for Blox to release the balance termination so I can jump on the hype train.


golov said you can ask for balanced termination when you order.


----------



## rahmish

mbwilson111 said:


> I am enjoying my recabled (by @HungryPanda ) Sony Ericsson HPM-64(x3)  Picked up a few colors from Amazon and Ebay for £2 to £3 each.  Red, Orange, Pink.  Also recabled a Red and a Black for himself.   I have a White one sitting here waiting for the cable to arrive.  All of the cables used so far are less than £2 each.  We have a couple of extra pink ones (those were less than £2) that we can take the drivers from in case of a disaster during the soldering process.   Only lost two out of 12 drivers so far... pretty good for the first time.
> 
> Recabling is essential.  They are useless without it... unless you have an old Sony Ericsson phone.  I have included the white one that is waiting for a cable in the photo (minus the bulky adapter thingie).  You could put some kind of extender on it but then you still  have to deal with it being a J cable.  This has been practice for some future more serious recabling projects  Best part is... they sound good...to my ears anyway.  I love the cable on the orange one.  Those come in a few colors on aliexpress.  DIY earphone cables.


I used the same cable on my orange ones!


----------



## mbwilson111

rahmish said:


> I used the same cable on my orange ones!



I know you did  You were the reason I ordered that cable  They really look good together.  I like how soft the cable is.


----------



## knudsen

rkw said:


> golov said you can ask for balanced termination when you order.


Already 3 weeks ago you could order with a balanced 2.5mm jack. Price was the same


----------



## BadReligionPunk

DAYUM! Need to get me some of them Marley cables. Dem looks Rasta Dope


----------



## miroslav

mbwilson111 said:


> I am enjoying my recabled (by @HungryPanda ) Sony Ericsson HPM-64(x3) ...


This nice photo reminded me that I had one of those SE earbuds. They came with my SE Elm phone and just stayed in the box unused for.. seven or eight years (I still use the little phone as a second device. It never ever failed me!). I found the box with the earbuds relatively easy at the bottom of the closet, but then had to dig really deep for the adapter. I was sure I had one so I spent 26 minutes picking through all sorts of consumer electronics trash - cables, chargers, dead laptop battery, HDD, keyboards, several computer mice, an ancient Canon PowerShot camera, Panasonic cordless phone, even my old Sony Cassette Walkman (that one brought back great memories  ). 

Eventually, I found the adapter, set everything ready to connect at the desk, happy to have another new earbud to play with unexpectedly, only to realize that I need a thing that connects things the other way around.





And this happens on a night when I hoped to have time for another Patrick Melrose episode before sleep...


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 5, 2018)

miroslav said:


> Eventually, I found the adapter, set everything ready to connect at the desk, happy to have another new earbud to play with unexpectedly, only to realize that I need a thing that connects things the other way around



This is why we recabled them.  The other option is an extender with a female jack on one end.  Would be difficult to find one lightweight enough that it won't pull on the bud.  And then there is the J part of the cable...

Don't throw it away.  People are selling those on ebay for people like me.

I like how you knew you spent precisely 26 minutes searchinig... lol.  Did you set a stopwatch?


----------



## rahmish

mbwilson111 said:


> I know you did  You were the reason I ordered that cable  They really look good together.  I like how soft the cable is.


It's great that you liked it! Yeah, cables are quite good, I ordered from them couple times now, will use for feature diy projects


----------



## mbwilson111

rahmish said:


> It's great that you liked it! Yeah, cables are quite good, I ordered from them couple times now, will use for feature diy projects



Have you noticed that the red Sony bud does not have the lettering on the shell that the other colors do?  I wonder why.


----------



## rahmish

mbwilson111 said:


> Have you noticed that the red Sony bud does not have the lettering on the shell that the other colors do?  I wonder why.


Hmm, need to check mine now...


----------



## rahmish

mbwilson111 said:


> Have you noticed that the red Sony bud does not have the lettering on the shell that the other colors do?  I wonder why.


Yeah, you're right, mine don't have writing as well, interesting...


----------



## mbwilson111

rahmish said:


> Yeah, you're right, mine don't have writing as well, interesting...



What cable is that?  Also I see you have foams on them.. so far I have used them without ... because of the rubber thing around it.. I like it like that.

Have all of your drivers survived?  We lost two out of twelve... so we have 5 buds and a spare set of pink shells (and two dead drivers).  We also have two intact spare pink pairs to maybe try a mod.

No idea what to do with all the adaptor thingies. I cannot imagine anyone wanting them but I see some for sale on ebay.


----------



## rahmish

mbwilson111 said:


> What cable is that?  Also I see you have foams on them.. so far I have used them without ... because of the rubber thing around it.. I like it like that.
> 
> Have all of your drivers survived?  We lost two out of twelve... so we have 5 buds and a spare set of pink shells (and two dead drivers).  We also have two intact spare pink pairs to maybe try a mod.
> 
> No idea what to do with all the adaptor thingies. I cannot imagine anyone wanting them but I see some for sale on ebay.


To be honest, I don't remember where I ordered the cable, somewhere on Aliex, but I deleted my order, so can't find it, but it was quite cheap, around 2 pounds, all my drivers survived for now,I don't know what to do with adapters as well, throwed them in the bin, just left one for any reason...


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 5, 2018)

rahmish said:


> To be honest, I don't remember where I ordered the cable, somewhere on Aliex, but I deleted my order, so can't find it, but it was quite cheap, around 2 pounds, all my drivers survived for now,I don't know what to do with adapters as well, throwed them in the bin, just left one for any reason...



I think I found it.... and I want that one with the solid black connector for the other bud I need recabled (not a sony).  Same seller that has the other colorful ones.

Strange that the link does not say cable... but it is when you open it.  Guess they sell a lot of other items.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ronic-Called-Battery/2195049_32827797487.html


----------



## rahmish

mbwilson111 said:


> I think I found it.... and I want that one with the solid black connector for the other bud I need recabled (not a sony).  Same seller that has the other colorful ones.
> 
> Strange that the link does not say cable... but it is when you open it.  Guess they sell a lot of other items.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ronic-Called-Battery/2195049_32827797487.html


Yeah, it is this cable and same seller!


----------



## bavinck

wskl said:


> Willsound MK300, thanks to Willy @WillSound for recommending these to me.
> 
> 
> 
> OOTB impressions are favourable, after listening for about 90 mins, the first thing that hit me is the soundstage and separation, they are a noticeable step up from my other earbuds.  It just sounds so open and I can hear each instrument more clearly.  Signature is balanced, tonal balance is very pleasing to the ear, I am now beginning to understand why people have been praising Willsound, I think I am becoming a fan.  Listening to these from my Xduoo X3 and Runabout Plus with VE thin foams on the earbuds.  That's all for now, as suggested by Willy, the MK300 needs 100hr burn-in to reach peak performance.



Willy's buds have a very natural sound to their timbre. Stuff just sounds right. I highly recommend the two I have (mk300 & Pk16), though they are very different sound presentations they both offer a clean, clear and natural sound. Mk300 is you like warmth and Pk16 if you are looking for something more clinical but exacting.


----------



## Spider fan (Sep 5, 2018)

bavinck said:


> Willy's buds have a very natural sound to their timbre. Stuff just sounds right. I highly recommend the two I have (mk300 & Pk16), though they are very different sound presentations they both offer a clean, clear and natural sound. Mk300 is you like warmth and Pk16 if you are looking for something more clinical but exacting.


So in your opinion the PK16 is better than the PK32?

Edit: Never mind I just re-read your post and see you dont have the PK32.  From what I've read cant go wrong with either.


----------



## wskl

bavinck said:


> Willy's buds have a very natural sound to their timbre. Stuff just sounds right. I highly recommend the two I have (mk300 & Pk16), though they are very different sound presentations they both offer a clean, clear and natural sound. Mk300 is you like warmth and Pk16 if you are looking for something more clinical but exacting.



Thanks, the PK16 and PK32 is on my list for a future purchase, from your description I think the PK16 would be more to my liking.  I previously owned the Moondrop Nameless and liked its neutral tuning but the shell was not a good fit for my ears, so I'm hoping that the PK16 will be a good replacement.


----------



## chinmie

Spider fan said:


> So in your opinion the PK16 is better than the PK32?
> 
> Edit: Never mind I just re-read your post and see you dont have the PK32.  From what I've read cant go wrong with either.



PK32 and PK16 have a similar SQ, but different tonality. if you like warm tone go for PK32, if you like detail go for PK16. both are great. i personally go for the PK16


----------



## Spider fan (Sep 5, 2018)

chinmie said:


> PK32 and PK16 have a similar SQ, but different tonality. if you like warm tone go for PK32, if you like detail go for PK16. both are great. i personally go for the PK16


Thanks, I knew there was one person in the thread had both.  I remembered you like the PK16 better just didnt know why.  Thanks for the reply.  Most of my buds are warm other than the mojito so I probably will go for the PK16.


----------



## luedriver (Sep 6, 2018)

DAndrew said:


> Impressions on the Odyssey? How does it pair with the monk+ and lite? Any change to their sq?



I haven't tried monk + yet, I gave asura 2.0s a quick listen (as it has 150ohm and wanted to see how it would handle the impedence) and it seemed like it became more "analog" sounding, as first impressions go,

currently using it with my pc to "power" blox tm9 and I have no complaints,

though I have to listen to some songs (if not all at very low volume, under 10 on my pc)  but if a song that I like comes on like Seree Lee - Classic Axe I can turn it up to 38 without the earphones sound too loud


----------



## cigarello

Hey guys, been off the earbud train for a bit now... Would you guys still say the EMX500 or RY4S are the best buds under $20? Cheers!


----------



## tripside

@HungryPanda do you still have the FAAEAL Z-Sound with you? Going by the images on the listing. its shell size appear to smaller than MX500/Monks. Can you confirm that? I never found the Monks comfortable. And they sounded a tad bit harsh to me. How do these sound?


----------



## RuFrost

3 truly fantastic earbuds - K'Black Ling, Toneking TO200, Penon Bs1 Official. They are similar in the way the produce sound, due to the similarity of the shells, but have different soundsignatures. Now, I'm searching for TO400, hope it's shell is done from metall, as plastic shells reduce resolution and accuracy of the sounds.


----------



## bhima

chinmie said:


> PK32 and PK16 have a similar SQ, but different tonality. if you like warm tone go for PK32, if you like detail go for PK16. both are great. i personally go for the PK16



I think I'm headed this way as well. Just got my first pair of PK-shelled headphones. They are by far the most comfortable shell and its not even close. The ones I ordered where some DIY PK2 16OHMs for like $10. They sound OK, detail isn't quite there though so I think the Willsound PK16 might be just the ticket.


----------



## seanc6441

RuFrost said:


> 3 truly fantastic earbuds - K'Black Ling, Toneking TO200, Penon Bs1 Official. They are similar in the way the produce sound, due to the similarity of the shells, but have different soundsignatures. Now, I'm searching for TO400, hope it's shell is done from metall, as plastic shells reduce resolution and accuracy of the sounds.


Black Ling with thick but pourous foams is so nice. Bass is so good with low seal, perfect punch and enough depth. I find with a good seal it's too much. Loose seal is much more balanced and airy sound.


----------



## RuFrost

seanc6441 said:


> Black Ling with thick but pourous foams is so nice. Bass is so good with low seal, perfect punch and enough depth. I find with a good seal it's too much. Loose seal is much more balanced and airy sound.


Cannot agree with you more! I have tried thin VE foams, Heigi donuts, as is and nothing worked. But the urge for experiments lead me to full thick pourous foams and here it is - fantastic full-body sound with amazingly wide scene, lots of details and very accurate holographic image. I just can't believe my ears. Here we go 300$+, here we go. Totally worth the money for magic which it ours out of earbuds. I refuse to imagine how does Poseidon sounds...))


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 6, 2018)

RuFrost said:


> Cannot agree with you more! I have tried thin VE foams, Heigi donuts, as is and nothing worked. But the urge for experiments lead me to full thick pourous foams and here it is - fantastic full-body sound with amazingly wide scene, lots of details and very accurate holographic image. I just can't believe my ears. Here we go 300$+, here we go. Totally worth the money for magic which it ours out of earbuds. I refuse to imagine how does Poseidon sounds...))


I'm using foams as porous as VE/ali thin foams but super thick and the middle is bowl shaped...Like scooped out for extra space.

 They are mod foams that wirk just perfect for the ling. I didn't think it sounded good at all with too thin or no foams, was very off tonally, but with very thick porous foam its so airy and just full enough. Detail is amazing I agree between mojito and BK. Much smoother than both overall. Bright sound which I love.

And the metal shell is perfect shape/size love it and thrle cable too. It's definitely my best bud with the mod foams.

It's like the BS1 sound with TOTL bass and extended treble. More space in the soundstage too.


----------



## bavinck

Spider fan said:


> So in your opinion the PK16 is better than the PK32?
> 
> Edit: Never mind I just re-read your post and see you dont have the PK32.  From what I've read cant go wrong with either.


Ya, don't have the pk32. But I really like the Pk16. I think I like it better than the mk300. The mk300 has a bit of bass bleed and can sounds a tad thick/unresolved in busy music. The Pk16 is very clear, light, agile. I put some decent eq into the Pk16 to try and squeeze more subbass out of it and I think it responds better than mk300 to that as well. Less bass on the Pk16, but more textures bass and better bass extension.


----------



## Spider fan

bavinck said:


> Ya, don't have the pk32. But I really like the Pk16. I think I like it better than the mk300. The mk300 has a bit of bass bleed and can sounds a tad thick/unresolved in busy music. The Pk16 is very clear, light, agile. I put some decent eq into the Pk16 to try and squeeze more subbass out of it and I think it responds better than mk300 to that as well. Less bass on the Pk16, but more textures bass and better bass extension.


Thanks for the mini-review.  The PK16 definitely seems like a winner.


----------



## chinmie

bavinck said:


> Ya, don't have the pk32. But I really like the Pk16. I think I like it better than the mk300. The mk300 has a bit of bass bleed and can sounds a tad thick/unresolved in busy music. The Pk16 is very clear, light, agile. I put some decent eq into the Pk16 to try and squeeze more subbass out of it and I think it responds better than mk300 to that as well. Less bass on the Pk16, but more textures bass and better bass extension.



the PK16 can go deeeeep! . the PK32 seems more bassy because it has more midbass, but on extension it is a bit deeper. i also like the clean and dark background feel to it, like listening to an IEM.

the MK300 on the other hand is "soupy": clear enough but have an analog warmth to them, not to extended to lows and highs like the other Willsounds. great for intimate vocal music


----------



## chaiyuta

New toys are arrived~ 

Chote earbuds sponge V2 + SWD2 special mod by Prakarnniranam (Toxic Viper V2 cable + 4.4 mm Bispa CINQBES Gold Plated Copper plug) + DIY PK2 SR2 Pro 16 Ohm 



 

Sponsored by @tekChansin


----------



## bhima

well, i ssent willy the money for the pk16. that will put me at 6 buds total. will do another earbud schmackdown with these once i have them all and have burned them in:
willsound pk16
mx760 graphenes (black with metal grill as per recommended by another user)
yincrow rw-777
datura-x
diy pk2 16ohm
ve monk+


----------



## subwoof3r (Sep 7, 2018)

The more I listen to TM9, the more I'm addicted!

They now have something like 180+ hours of proper burning and they now impress me a lot. Now everything is better, bass is now tight and has a lot of impact, with smooth and nicely extended highs, with good amount of details. For sure, the best Blox release ever!

TM9 really needs a lot of burning to sound their best (I recommend at least 150 hours).
I feel like TM9 has a kind of warm signature, that is why is sounds easily good on every genres.

While TM9 plays in a champions league, I still believe that EBX is the best for details retrieving. On EBX, I completely rediscovered all my best tracks (which was not the case on TM9).
So all depends of what you are looking for, both are very complementary themselves.


----------



## kurtextrem

You will make me buy the EBX sooner or later lol


----------



## 40760

chaiyuta said:


> New toys are arrived~
> 
> Chote earbuds sponge V2 + SWD2 special mod by Prakarnniranam (Toxic Viper V2 cable + 4.4 mm Bispa CINQBES Gold Plated Copper plug) + DIY PK2 SR2 Pro 16 Ohm
> 
> ...



Possible to provide a mini review of the DIY PK2 SR2 16ohm? A link to the product will be good too!


----------



## sl2lin (Sep 7, 2018)

Hello, everyone.
Who knows the detailed parameters of TM9?


----------



## sl2lin

I found the parameters.
Driver : Dynamic 15.4 mm.
Frequency Response : 20Hz - 22KHz
Impedance : 32 Ohms
Sensitivity : 108dB/mW @ 1KHz
Cable : OCC copper 1.2 m.


----------



## jant71

New one... https://penonaudio.com/shoonth-esep-01bl.html

An unknown other than Penon probably wouldn't decide to carry it if there wasn't something to it. One 5 star Amazon Japan review. Apparently there is another upgrade version, the BS.


----------



## mochill

subwoof3r said:


> The more I listen to TM9, the more I'm addicted!
> 
> They now have something like 180+ hours of proper burning and they now impress me a lot. Now everything is better, bass is now tight and has a lot of impact, with smooth and nicely extended highs, with good amount of details. For sure, the best Blox release ever!
> 
> ...


I think theylltstill improve with more and more burn in^_^


----------



## ClieOS

jant71 said:


> New one... https://penonaudio.com/shoonth-esep-01bl.html
> 
> An unknown other than Penon probably wouldn't decide to carry it if there wasn't something to it. One 5 star Amazon Japan review. Apparently there is another upgrade version, the BS.



I have one of their earlier flagship model, the ESEP-01B (*was Extraordinary Sound ESP-01B)  The BL model is supposed to be the low impedance model. The maker of this earbuds is quite a well-known cable maker in China. The ESP-01B that I have however has such a thick and stiff cable that it is almost completely useless once you move around, and SQ isn't that impressive to compensate for such an obvious flaw.


----------



## chaiyuta

palestofwhite said:


> Possible to provide a mini review of the DIY PK2 SR2 16ohm? A link to the product will be good too!


Actually you can use "Search this thread" feature. @jogawag did many posts about this earbuds. The first one is here.

My earbuds doesn't pass burn-in period yet, so its sound may not settle in. Its SQ worths for its price. its soundstage is moderate size for this price range. Is it really comparable to SWD2+? My answer is "No" and very far from that. Its tonality tends to warm side with quite thick vocal image. It has a nice punch bass which seldom finds this bass quantity level from PK housing earbuds.Its cable has noticably microphonics. Sorry if my mini review let you down from hype train. Perhaps I have a chance to often try many high-price and high-end stuff. It is very difficult to me to praise on something. Though I think its driver has high potential enough. Its SQ would go further if one modifies by re-cable, re-soldering, re-plug.


----------



## seanc6441

@chaiyuta 

Gonna put mine in the metal 14.8mm shells i bought and recable with silver plated OCC or OCC and use Gold or Rhodium plated plugs. See if that changes the signature. I bought two so i can compare stock to modded.


----------



## kurtextrem

The Simphonio Dragon 2+ is back on MassDrop.
@all those who bought it on past drops: What was declared on the package? The full price or 19$ or similar (like chinese packages do)?


----------



## tim0chan

chaiyuta said:


> Actually you can use "Search this thread" feature. @jogawag did many posts about this earbuds. The first one is here.
> 
> My earbuds doesn't pass burn-in period yet, so its sound may not settle in. Its SQ worths for its price. its soundstage is moderate size for this price range. Is it really comparable to SWD2+? My answer is "No" and very far from that. Its tonality tends to warm side with quite thick vocal image. It has a nice punch bass which seldom finds this bass quantity level from PK housing earbuds.Its cable has noticably microphonics. Sorry if my mini review let you down from hype train. Perhaps I have a chance to often try many high-price and high-end stuff. It is very difficult to me to praise on something. Though I think its driver has high potential enough. Its SQ would go further if one modifies by re-cable, re-soldering, re-plug.


what about treble?
i will be getting mine soon hehe 
my ears just cannot stand anything larger than pk shells so this is one of my last chances to find something with decent bass quantity


----------



## bavinck

chinmie said:


> the PK16 can go deeeeep! . the PK32 seems more bassy because it has more midbass, but on extension it is a bit deeper. i also like the clean and dark background feel to it, like listening to an IEM.
> 
> the MK300 on the other hand is "soupy": clear enough but have an analog warmth to them, not to extended to lows and highs like the other Willsounds. great for intimate vocal music


I'd agree with this. I am a big fan of linear bass extension. I would really like any music making device to have the same amount of mid bass and sub bass. That's asking a lot out of the economical Willsounds, and I don't think Mk300 offers this (but people will like their intimate nature as you comment). The pk16 is pretty good in this regard. My test track for subbass is usually The Dark Night track Why So Serious?. PK16 definitely has a better subbass presence.


----------



## bavinck

kurtextrem said:


> The Simphonio Dragon 2+ is back on MassDrop.
> @all those who bought it on past drops: What was declared on the package? The full price or 19$ or similar (like chinese packages do)?


Massdrop is going to declare full value.


----------



## waynes world

bhima said:


> well, i ssent willy the money for the pk16. that will put me at 6 buds total. will do another earbud schmackdown with these once i have them all and have burned them in:
> willsound pk16
> mx760 graphenes (black with metal grill as per recommended by another user)
> yincrow rw-777
> ...



Interesting/fun mix! Looking forward to the "smackdown" lol


----------



## bavinck

The burn in snake oil is strong in this thread....


----------



## fairx

After some resurgence of pk2 SR2 I tried checking them out on AE. Is it me or the price has increased recently?


----------



## seanc6441

bavinck said:


> The burn in snake oil is strong in this thread....


Burn baby burn.


----------



## seanc6441

fairx said:


> After some resurgence of pk2 SR2 I tried checking them out on AE. Is it me or the price has increased recently?


Not just you... Item is in demand the seller raised the price!


----------



## 40760

chaiyuta said:


> Actually you can use "Search this thread" feature. @jogawag did many posts about this earbuds. The first one is here.
> 
> My earbuds doesn't pass burn-in period yet, so its sound may not settle in. Its SQ worths for its price. its soundstage is moderate size for this price range. Is it really comparable to SWD2+? My answer is "No" and very far from that. Its tonality tends to warm side with quite thick vocal image. It has a nice punch bass which seldom finds this bass quantity level from PK housing earbuds.Its cable has noticably microphonics. Sorry if my mini review let you down from hype train. Perhaps I have a chance to often try many high-price and high-end stuff. It is very difficult to me to praise on something. Though I think its driver has high potential enough. Its SQ would go further if one modifies by re-cable, re-soldering, re-plug.



Not at all! I appreciate your honest feedback on them... and now I can finally save some money too...


----------



## fairx

This happens a few times already now. The T-music v2 alternative that I shared before also increase 2 fold in price.. All my friend regret not grabbing them while its still being offered. Now I regret not grabbing the SR2 last week. I'm gonna ask my local importer if there's any alternative. 

Does SR2 16 ohm still worth the current price? In only have 1 yuin style earbud in my collection (it says cresyn on the splitter) and I hate the sound. Wanna try a new yuin style. I wonder SR2 will suits my sig.


----------



## chaiyuta

@tim0chan : Please waiting until it surpassed burn-in period. Though its treble is nothing special to me and It doesn't give me very negative feeling too.
@palestofwhite : It depends on what you stay now and what you will go next. If you are the one who always goes to an audio show event and trail-listen an over 100,000 $USD 2-channel speakers system as well as other hi-end audio stuff, it would be very hard to praise somethings (less wow feeling)~ 

By the way, tomorrow I am going to join Chord Electronics (CEO Mr. John Franks) Interview & Meeting event in Thailand. Well I might ask him about when Mojo2 will be announced and what does he think about balanced output cause both Mojo and Hugo series are still single-end output.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 7, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> Though I think its driver has high potential enough. Its SQ would go further if one modifies by re-cable, re-soldering, re-plug.



I hope to have my DIY PK2 SR2 16ohm recabled. The cable on it is very stiff. I do love the sound.  Fully burned in now..but I was happy with them out of the box.  I let them play music from my PC for a week. PC is always on anyway.  Sometimes I use a DAP for burn in.



kurtextrem said:


> The Simphonio Dragon 2+ is back on MassDrop.
> @all those who bought it on past drops: What was declared on the package? The full price or 19$ or similar (like chinese packages do)?



Massdrop always puts full value.  They have to.  We have been hit hard with customs fees and no longer order from them.

Great if you are in the USA.


----------



## tim0chan

mbwilson111 said:


> I hope to have my DIY PK2 SR2 16ohm recabled. The cable on it is very stiff. I do love the sound.  Fully burned in now..but I was happy with them out of the box.  I let them play music from my PC for a week. PC is always on anyway.  Sometimes I use a DAP for burn in.
> 
> 
> 
> Massdrop always puts full value.  They have to.  We have been hit hard with customs fees and no longer order from them.


Moar sr2 impressions pls. Massdrop really sucks balls in my part of the world xD. The discount is usually offset by the shipping cost. In the end it's still cheaper to get from Amazon


----------



## Spider fan (Sep 7, 2018)

tim0chan said:


> Moar sr2 impressions pls. Massdrop really sucks balls in my part of the world xD. The discount is usually offset by the shipping cost. In the end it's still cheaper to get from Amazon


I am happy with my DIY PK2 SR2 (I went with the 150ohm instead of the 16) especially for the price it sold for when Jogawag posted.  I think it is solid through all the frequencies with nice bass for a yuin shell.  It is an enjoyable listen to me and great with tv shows/movies.  The cable is fine to me especially compared to some of my others.  At the old price I would buy a couple more especially since it is so comfortable.   I am going to use it as my main streaming movie/tv show bud.  At the new price, I might lean towards buying up to the Willsound PK16 or PK32.  Overall, I am glad I bought it and think it was good recommendation especially at its old price.  At its new price there seems to be alot more competition.


----------



## jogawag (Dec 9, 2018)

fairx said:


> This happens a few times already now. The T-music v2 alternative that I shared before also increase 2 fold in price.. All my friend regret not grabbing them while its still being offered. Now I regret not grabbing the SR2 last week. I'm gonna ask my local importer if there's any alternative.
> 
> Does SR2 16 ohm still worth the current price? In only have 1 yuin style earbud in my collection (it says cresyn on the splitter) and I hate the sound. Wanna try a new yuin style. I wonder SR2 will suits my sig.



DIY PK2 SR2 PRO 16ohm requires *the burn-in time of 100 hours*, and the sound signature changes  unstably many times during burn-in. (Please don't use burn-in file.)
Ultimately, with a moderate sound stage, it will be a powerful bass and a slightly hard treble sound signature.
I think that at least this powerful bass is winning to the SWD2+.
If you feel that the treble is too hard, please use *the full form*.
I also have a Cresyn version, but I think that DIY PK2 SR2 PRO 16ohm is worth about 24 usd of the current price.

Edit;
2018.11.10
Now I recommend DIY PK2 SR2 tpe 16ohm more.


----------



## blackberriesandthinkpads (Sep 7, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> While TM9 plays in a champions league, I still believe that EBX is the best for details retrieving. On EBX, I completely rediscovered all my best tracks (which was not the case on TM9).
> So all depends of what you are looking for, both are very complementary themselves.



Your TH-900 vs TM9, which has better details?

So bass is getting better with burn in eh...

Does the TM9 have more bass than Monk+?

@mochill
@subwoof3r
@luedriver
@ClieOS
@Danneq
@euge


----------



## subwoof3r

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> Your TH-900 vs TM9, which has better details?
> 
> So bass is getting better with burn in eh...
> 
> Does the TM9 have more bass than Monk+?



Difficult to compare a high end headphone versus an earbud, but if so.. then definitely TH900, hehe 
But yeah, I was mostly comparing about bass, and I still think TM9 bass has the best closest TH900 subbass and bass qualities than any other earbuds for now (from what I tried personally until now). But best subbass earbuds for me is still EMX500S.
TM9 has definitely MUCH more bass than Monk+.


----------



## Fabi

rkw said:


> golov said you can ask for balanced termination when you order.


That is correct 


Spoiler


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 7, 2018)

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> Your TH-900 vs TM9, which has better details?
> 
> So bass is getting better with burn in eh...
> 
> ...


Th-900 is pretty bright right? Like it has powerful bass and bright treble?

You may want to consider the K's Ling then for sub bass and impact it's the best quantity and great quality too. In fact i use more pourous foams to reduce the impact slightly and then the bass sounds tighter but also has great depth and authority where other buds may suffer without a dense thick foam.

It's also fairly bright up top and extended thats why i think it might be something for you to consider.

It's also more semi closed back than open in its shell design, which aligns more with the th-900 i guess?


----------



## McCol

A wee query for those that may have heard both.

The Blox TM9 at $280 or the Simphonio on Massdrop at $200.  Are they similar or is there a big difference in presentation between the two?  Also how do they compare to something like the VE Zoe etc?  

At the moment I'm loving my Moon Nightshade and also quite liking the Toneking 400 but feel the need to sample some other TOTL buds.


----------



## blackberriesandthinkpads (Sep 7, 2018)

McCol said:


> A wee query for those that may have heard both.
> 
> The Blox TM9 at $280 or the Simphonio on Massdrop at $200.  Are they similar or is there a big difference in presentation between the two?  Also how do they compare to something like the VE Zoe etc?
> 
> At the moment I'm loving my Moon Nightshade and also quite liking the Toneking 400 but feel the need to sample some other TOTL buds.



I know not what you asked, but based on what I've read (heard neither, but in the market for a TOTL bud so been researching like crazy), they are not at all similar. Read up on the Simphonio, a few reviews out there, take each with a grain of salt as they interestingly differ, but you'll find the commonalities. TM9 info is limited to this thread from what I've sound so far.

The basic jist of it is TM9 is neutral, Simphonia is not, it's mids are forward.


----------



## snip3r77

I have the Willsound MK3,can anyone advise the diff btw MK 1 , 2 and 3 ? Which should I purchase to compliment my MK3?


----------



## ClieOS

McCol said:


> A wee query for those that may have heard both.
> 
> The Blox TM9 at $280 or the Simphonio on Massdrop at $200.  Are they similar or is there a big difference in presentation between the two?  Also how do they compare to something like the VE Zoe etc?
> 
> At the moment I'm loving my Moon Nightshade and also quite liking the Toneking 400 but feel the need to sample some other TOTL buds.




They are similar that both are right at the very top of the current earbuds world. ZOE, if driven well, can compete on that level as well - but the key words are 'driven well'. TM9 and SWD2+ on the other hand do not require as much attention on source matching. The big difference between TM9 and SWD2+, to me, is that TM9 is completely smooth, relax and open; where SWD2+ has a more aggressive upper mid / lower treble. In other words, SWD2+ is the more energetic of the two while TM9 is the more immersive one. ZOE on the other hand has more of VE trademarked warmish signature that is more focused on the mid and lower range, giving it a sweeter overall tone.


----------



## golov17

Fabi said:


> That is correct
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Waiting mine ))


----------



## chinmie

chaiyuta said:


> @tim0chan : Please waiting until it surpassed burn-in period. Though its treble is nothing special to me and It doesn't give me very negative feeling too.
> @palestofwhite : It depends on what you stay now and what you will go next. If you are the one who always goes to an audio show event and trail-listen an over 100,000 $USD 2-channel speakers system as well as other hi-end audio stuff, it would be very hard to praise somethings (less wow feeling)~
> 
> By the way, tomorrow I am going to join Chord Electronics (CEO Mr. John Franks) Interview & Meeting event in Thailand. Well I might ask him about when Mojo2 will be announced and what does he think about balanced output cause both Mojo and Hugo series are still single-end output.



basically what they think that balanced means doubling the components and could compromise transparency, and also they designed the chord portables powerful enough that SE connections is enough

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cho...n-3rd-post-◄★☆.784602/page-1843#post-13102878

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/ces-2014-headphone-earphones-and-related-electronics-part-1/?page=5


----------



## McCol

ClieOS said:


> They are similar that both are right at the very top of the current earbuds world. ZOE, if driven well, can compete on that level as well - but the key words are 'driven well'. TM9 and SWD2+ on the other hand do not require as much attention on source matching. The big difference between TM9 and SWD2+, to me, is that TM9 is completely smooth, relax and open; where SWD2+ has a more aggressive upper mid / lower treble. In other words, SWD2+ is the more energetic of the two while TM9 is the more immersive one. ZOE on the other hand has more of VE trademarked warmish signature that is more focused on the mid and lower range, giving it a sweeter overall tone.



Cheers for the breakdown, might give either the Zoe or SWD2+ a try.

Forgot to message you, cable arrived - many thanks.


----------



## kw8910

Only used these for a few hours but the Zoomfred is incredible! Massive 3D soundstage, deep satisfying sub-bass, non-fatiguing, super smooth yet detailed. Just a unique analog signature. Can’t find any flaws in the sound. Only issue might be the stiff lower half of the cable but with the right shirt clip it’s really just as easy to use as anything else.


----------



## bavinck

I hate stiff cables. That's a deal breaker in my world.


----------



## fairx

jogawag said:


> DIY PK2 SR2 PRO 16ohm requires *the burn-in time of 100 hours*, and the sound signature changes  unstably many times during burn-in. (Please don't use burn-in file.)
> Ultimately, with a moderate sound stage, it will be a powerful bass and a slightly hard treble sound signature.
> I think that at least this powerful bass is winning to the SWD2+.
> If you feel that the treble is too hard, please use *the full form*.
> I also have a Cresyn version, but I think that DIY PK2 SR2 PRO 16ohm is worth about 24 usd of the current price.


Thanks for the feedbacks. I will reconsider. 

BTW how much you like /don't like the cresyn?


----------



## jogawag

fairx said:


> Thanks for the feedbacks. I will reconsider.
> 
> BTW how much you like /don't like the cresyn?


Cresyn version sounds blurred throughout, I feel that treble and bass are few. I listened this for the first time in half a year.


----------



## kurtextrem

ClieOS said:


> They are similar that both are right at the very top of the current earbuds world. ZOE, if driven well, can compete on that level as well - but the key words are 'driven well'. TM9 and SWD2+ on the other hand do not require as much attention on source matching. The big difference between TM9 and SWD2+, to me, is that TM9 is completely smooth, relax and open; where SWD2+ has a more aggressive upper mid / lower treble. In other words, SWD2+ is the more energetic of the two while TM9 is the more immersive one. ZOE on the other hand has more of VE trademarked warmish signature that is more focused on the mid and lower range, giving it a sweeter overall tone.


That one caught my interest. If I was about to buy the ZOE, which cable would you pick? Or simply go with the default one of ZOE?

And what drives the ZOE well? A SoundBlaster Z sound card?


----------



## 40760

kurtextrem said:


> That one caught my interest. If I was about to buy the ZOE, which cable would you pick? Or simply go with the default one of ZOE?
> 
> And what drives the ZOE well? A SoundBlaster Z sound card?



No harm picking up the 102ssc for half the price when you get the ZOE... That's the route I went and I do prefer the 102ssc with the ZOE.


----------



## ClieOS

bavinck said:


> I hate stiff cables. That's a deal breaker in my world.



You and me both.


kurtextrem said:


> That one caught my interest. If I was about to buy the ZOE, which cable would you pick? Or simply go with the default one of ZOE?
> 
> And what drives the ZOE well? A SoundBlaster Z sound card?



I'll either keep to the Oyaide cable that VE sells (though that one is a little stiff) or probably some pure silver cable. The stock cable, to me, is a bit on the boring side. As for source, something with good power and neutral to slightly bright sounding.


----------



## snip3r77

I have the Willsound MK3, I'm looking at MK1. Should I pull the trigger? Any other suggestion.
I would like my MK3 to have more bass and ToTL w/o breaking the bank


----------



## Narayan23

snip3r77 said:


> I have the Willsound MK3, I'm looking at MK1. *Should I pull the trigger?* Any other suggestion.
> I would like my MK3 to have more bass and ToTL w/o breaking the bank



Should you pull the trigger you say? You do realise where you´re asking this question don´t you? If not, look below, the artist was inspired by the average follower of this thread:






I can´t comment on the Willsound line, but I really like the FAAEAL Snow Lotus 2.0, I listened with nothing else for four days in a row when I first got them which is a first for me, although deep bass is not their forte. Silly question, but have you tried foam rolling with the MK3? It certainly won´t break the bank and might get you closer to your desired sound, if you tell us what kind of signature you prefer (warm, neutral, analytical etc) maybe more people can chime in and help.


----------



## j4100

ClieOS said:


> You and me both.
> 
> 
> I'll either keep to the Oyaide cable that VE sells (though that one is a little stiff) or probably some pure silver cable. The stock cable, to me, is a bit on the boring side. As for source, something with good power and neutral to slightly bright sounding.



Yes, it is rather stiff, is awkward to straighten out, and quite microphonic. However, I don't use my ZOE on the move and use my RA 2.0bl with warp core, so that's not a problem. I am thinking about getting an upgrade cable, if I can get a softer one. Any recommendations would be welcome.

On another note, I have been quite tempted with all the talk of the TM9, but I doubt it would be a significant upgrade over my ZOE, so I'll probably resist the temptation.

It's a lot easier to give into temptation for cheaper buds though. I'm still interested in Willy's PK16 and there's always something interesting on Rholupat. Love that VJC cable that's on my Crow Audio Raven Mk2. Adhi has a few available that use that. Hmmm...


----------



## kw8910

j4100 said:


> Yes, it is rather stiff, is awkward to straighten out, and quite microphonic. However, I don't use my ZOE on the move and use my RA 2.0bl with warp core, so that's not a problem. I am thinking about getting an upgrade cable, if I can get a softer one. Any recommendations would be welcome.
> 
> On another note, I have been quite tempted with all the talk of the TM9, but I doubt it would be a significant upgrade over my ZOE, so I'll probably resist the temptation.
> 
> It's a lot easier to give into temptation for cheaper buds though. I'm still interested in Willy's PK16 and there's always something interesting on Rholupat. Love that VJC cable that's on my Crow Audio Raven Mk2. Adhi has a few available that use that. Hmmm...



I believe Lee is still offering his pure blue cable for half off to Zoe owners, but you’d have to message him, not sure you can get it straight up from his website. Extremely soft and uses pure silver not just plated..I doubt you can find anything like that for less elsewhere.


----------



## bhima

just got my graphenes and yincrow rw-777. havent tested the graphenes yet, but the yincrows are on another level compared to my other headphones (sans akg k7xx). Very mature sound, great separation, stage and decay.


----------



## j4100

kw8910 said:


> I believe Lee is still offering his pure blue cable for half off to Zoe owners, but you’d have to message him, not sure you can get it straight up from his website. Extremely soft and uses pure silver not just plated..I doubt you can find anything like that for less elsewhere.



I forgot about that. I'll need to drop him a line. Also fancy an Odyssey for my S8. Thanks.


----------



## doggiemom

j4100 said:


> It's a lot easier to give into temptation for cheaper buds though. I'm still interested in Willy's PK16 and there's always something interesting on Rholupat. Love that VJC cable that's on my Crow Audio Raven Mk2. Adhi has a few available that use that. Hmmm...


Try VUNBUD.  Has VJC cable with MMCX connectors.  Appears to be back in stock on Rholupat.


----------



## McCol

Another quick question regarding some of the TOTL earbuds.  I’ve been using the Moon Nightshade for the last few weeks and with my very limited earbud experience think they are excellent.  I prefer them to my only other earbud which is the Toneking 400.

Has anybody got experience of Moonbuds products in comparasion to some of the TOTL products sold through retailers, like my earlier post I’m thinking of buds like the VE Zoe, SWD2 and Blox etc etc?


----------



## j4100

doggiemom said:


> Try VUNBUD.  Has VJC cable with MMCX connectors.  Appears to be back in stock on Rholupat.



Yeah, I was looking at that one. And the Raid.


----------



## bonson

j4100 said:


> Yeah, I was looking at that one. And the Raid.


Unfortunately there is no stock anymore on Rholupat for Vunbud .


----------



## bhima (Sep 8, 2018)

First impressions of MX760 graphene (black with metal grill) with no burn-in:
Sound is ever so slightly larger than the Yincrow rw-777
Even though they are MX500 shells, they are MUCH more comfortable than the VE Monk+
Mid-bass bleeds pretty heavily into the mid-range
upper-mids/lower-treble have a slight resonance to them, screwing with separation. Slight peak between 2-4K but much less so than the Datura-X

Yincrow's have a more evolved, and well rounded sound so far. Will burn these graphenes in for at least 100 hours before doing a true test.

EDIT: Replaced stock foams on the MX760 with VE Foams. Reduced mid-bass bleed significantly and reduced upper-mid/lower trebel resonance. Just goes to show, these headphone makers really need to supply VE foams with all of their headphones.


----------



## j4100

bonson said:


> Unfortunately there is no stock anymore on Rholupat for Vunbud .



Oh rats! Too late!


----------



## gattari

bhima said:


> First impressions of MX760 graphene (black with metal grill) with no burn-in:
> Sound is ever so slightly larger than the Yincrow rw-777


Well fit is the trick, try differenti positions.


----------



## groucho69

That's what she said.


----------



## rkw

bhima said:


> First impressions of MX760 graphene (black with metal grill) with no burn-in:
> Sound is ever so slightly larger than the Yincrow rw-777
> *Even though they are MX500 shells*, they are MUCH more comfortable than the VE Monk+


You mean these?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...ss-Earbud-With-Silver-Plated/32821193042.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...High-End-Rare-Earth-Graphene/32821104494.html
They are not MX500 shells, and different from Monk+.


----------



## chinmie

bhima said:


> First impressions of MX760 graphene (black with metal grill) with no burn-in:
> Sound is ever so slightly larger than the Yincrow rw-777
> Even though they are MX500 shells, they are MUCH more comfortable than the VE Monk+
> Mid-bass bleeds pretty heavily into the mid-range
> ...



how do you compare the yincrow rw777 to the Datura X?


----------



## Winfrid

My new earbud willsound mk3+ with 8 braids cable and 2,5 mm jack. Thx to @WillSound for this great earbud


----------



## waynes world

rkw said:


> You mean these?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...ss-Earbud-With-Silver-Plated/32821193042.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...High-End-Rare-Earth-Graphene/32821104494.html
> They are not MX500 shells, and different from Monk+.



In case you are not aware, those sound quite different from each other and really should not have the same names.


----------



## bhima

chinmie said:


> how do you compare the yincrow rw777 to the Datura X?



No comparison. The yincrow is a significant improvement on the datura, mainly in its flatter treble response that removes the resonance peak on the daturas, and slightly better imaging and a much better soundstage. rest of the frequency response is similar, which is a plus for both buds in my book.


----------



## mbwilson111

bhima said:


> No comparison. The yincrow is a significant improvement on the datura, mainly in its flatter treble response that removes the resonance peak on the daturas, and slightly better imaging and a much better soundstage. rest of the frequency response is similar, which is a plus for both buds in my book.



So, if I have the yincrow, I should not get the datura x?


----------



## snip3r77

Narayan23 said:


> Should you pull the trigger you say? You do realise where you´re asking this question don´t you? If not, look below, the artist was inspired by the average follower of this thread:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Neutral, thick mids plus good bass.


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> So, if I have the yincrow, I should not get the datura x?



How could you resist something called "Datura X"?


----------



## HungryPanda (Sep 8, 2018)

@tripside sorry for the late reply. The Faaeal Z-Sound are bell shaped with a stem and made of plastic. They have a metal grill and are actually very good sounding for the low cost. Bass is quite good. £5.08 on ali, absolute bargain.


----------



## chinmie

bhima said:


> No comparison. The yincrow is a significant improvement on the datura, mainly in its flatter treble response that removes the resonance peak on the daturas, and slightly better imaging and a much better soundstage. rest of the frequency response is similar, which is a plus for both buds in my book.



thanks, i like the yincrow's look, i think I'll consider adding them to my collection 



mbwilson111 said:


> So, if I have the yincrow, I should not get the datura x?





waynes world said:


> How could you resist something called "Datura X"?



yees. . i mean who could resist the look?
 

it's beautiful and handsome at the same time! 



snip3r77 said:


> Neutral, thick mids plus good bass.



if you want another Willsound with that criteria, then you should get the MK1


----------



## dheepak10 (Sep 8, 2018)

*Moonbuds Laze Initial Impressions* (no foams used):

Laze has a nice, wide soundstage and the tonality is warm.
Mids are reasonably forward and pack good amount of texture.
Highs are quite natural sounding and pack in enough details without being piercing or sibilant.
The mids and highs are one of the most natural sounding tonality I've heard in earbuds.
Bass quantity is ample, but texture is not refined and a bit loose based on what I heard and there is some bleed into mids.

Still in the process of burn-in so this is not a final observation.

Will update if any noticeable difference is observed after the recommended burn-in period.

PS: Moonbuds Nightingale in the house for audition too


----------



## blackberriesandthinkpads

Lots of Willsound talk recently, are Willsound TOTL "Champion" level?


----------



## chinmie

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> Lots of Willsound talk recently, are Willsound TOTL "Champion" level?



for me, arguably yes. my old MK2 with thin foams is one of my best sounding earphones


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 9, 2018)

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> Lots of Willsound talk recently, are Willsound TOTL "Champion" level?


Compared to the others I listened to for me I'd say not quite. They are really good for the price but I find them to fall short in a few areas to consider them as high as the TOTL (well, my best ones anyway).

Mk2 has slightly hazy imaging and the  mid bass is a little loose bleeding into the low mids too much. The vocals can touch on shouty at times and the treble is well fleshed out but not exactly extended effortlessly or particularly euphoric to my ears, it's merely just good.

Buuuut, I haven't heard the MK1 VJC, 300 or MK3 only the mk2 r2 and pk32 so...

And the price for them is totally fair! Cannot say that for many IMO over priced high end buds.


----------



## tripside (Sep 9, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> @tripside sorry for the late reply. The Faaeal Z-Sound are bell shaped with a stem and made of plastic. They have a metal grill and are actually very good sounding for the low cost. Bass is quite good. £5.08 on ali, absolute bargain.



Thank you for replying. There’s not much information available about them. Does the mids on these sound harsh ? I just need something polite sounding to sleep to.. And is the shell size on these smaller compared to MX500/Monk Plus?


P.S I am curious about the circular slab on which you’ve placed the buds. What is it ?


----------



## snip3r77

Is this the FoTM?








mochill said:


> :-D the TM9 is here, the legend continuesB-)


----------



## snip3r77

ShabtabQ said:


> I have the PT15 and they are pretty good sounding, and nicely built too, definitely a steal at the price they go for.



damn. the mmx cable broke :<


----------



## golov17

snip3r77 said:


> Is this the FoTM?


----------



## snip3r77

golov17 said:


>



Yeah until I checked the price is 2xx..


----------



## ClieOS

snip3r77 said:


> Yeah until I checked the price is 2xx..


Certainly not cheap for sure. But if I were only allowed to get one earbud, this is the one I'll want.



...
Good thing I don't have to choose, so I'm going to get a WillSound soonish.


----------



## snip3r77

ClieOS said:


> Certainly not cheap for sure. But if I were only allowed to get one earbud, this is the one I'll want.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bro, which Willsound you're getting and why?


----------



## ClieOS

snip3r77 said:


> Bro, which Willsound you're getting and why?



The very new MK1 Special Edition.


----------



## chinmie

ClieOS said:


> Certainly not cheap for sure. But if I were only allowed to get one earbud, this is the one I'll want.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



get all 3 MKs and the PK16!


----------



## ClieOS

All in good time. I was curious for all the WillSound discussion atop, so I thought I'll get one and listen for myself. As I can't decide which to get. I went to FB and ask Willy on which is his favorite at the moment. I think you can guess what answer he has given.


----------



## blackberriesandthinkpads

ClieOS said:


> Certainly not cheap for sure. But if I were only allowed to get one earbud, this is the one I'll want.



That's one bold statement, so then, your #1 favorite earbud?


----------



## ClieOS

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> That's one bold statement, so then, your #1 favorite earbud?


At the moment, absolutely yes.


----------



## snip3r77

chinmie said:


> get all 3 MKs and the PK16!


How is PK16??


----------



## chinmie

snip3r77 said:


> How is PK16??



good, but if you want bass amount it's safer with the MKs


----------



## Danneq

kw8910 said:


> Only used these for a few hours but the Zoomfred is incredible! Massive 3D soundstage, deep satisfying sub-bass, non-fatiguing, super smooth yet detailed. Just a unique analog signature. Can’t find any flaws in the sound. Only issue might be the stiff lower half of the cable but with the right shirt clip it’s really just as easy to use as anything else.



Agree on the sound of ZoomFred. What foams do you use? I tried different foams and then discovered that the best option for me is to use silicone rings with fins from the VE EX pack with the fins cut off. ZoomFred are the first earbuds that I think sound better without foams than with.

I have no problems with the cable. The lower part is a bit stiff but not too stiff to use out and about. From the Y splitter up the cable is soft and easy to use.




bhima said:


> just got my graphenes and yincrow rw-777. havent tested the graphenes yet, but the yincrows are on another level compared to my other headphones (sans akg k7xx). Very mature sound, great separation, stage and decay.



Yeah, Yincrow RW-777 has really got a unique sound. I find them to be a bit "thin" but quite detailed with a big soundstage and good separation. In these areas they can compete with many TOTL earbuds despite being sold at a relatively low price (around $40-50).




ClieOS said:


> Certainly not cheap for sure. But if I were only allowed to get one earbud, this is the one I'll want.



My pair of TM9 arrived in Sweden on the 31st of August and still are in customs. In the last few years the Swedish postal service has truly gotten worse and worse each day. Hopefully I will get the TM9 before October. If they are not lost in customs or by PostNord. 

Just imagine! 3 days from Thailand to Sweden. 7-8 times longer time than that for the Swedish postal service to deliver them!


----------



## HungryPanda

tripside said:


> Thank you for replying. There’s not much information available about them. Does the mids on these sound harsh ? I just need something polite sounding to sleep to.. And is the shell size on these smaller compared to MX500/Monk Plus?
> 
> 
> P.S I am curious about the circular slab on which you’ve placed the buds. What is it ?


 The circular slap is a stone coaster I keep on my desk. As for the shape it is much more comfortable than monk shells as the stem is clear of my ear


----------



## kurtextrem

I am definitely scratching my head on how the ZOE is supposed to be better than the Zen 2.0 - I've seen a lot of positive reviews of the Zen 2.0, but a lot of earbuds seemed to be superior for their price. Can someone who has heard the ZOE and has earbuds to compare (Shozy Stardust, TO400s, K's Black Ling, TM9, SWD2+, ...) please elaborate?
I mean if I can buy the ZOE with a nice fitting shell for 170$ instead of a SWD2+ for 319$ and their soundstage is equally great... why should I pay almost twice the price.


----------



## tim0chan

kurtextrem said:


> I am definitely scratching my head on how the ZOE is supposed to be better than the Zen 2.0 - I've seen a lot of positive reviews of the Zen 2.0, but a lot of earbuds seemed to be superior for their price. Can someone who has heard the ZOE and has earbuds to compare (Shozy Stardust, TO400s, K's Black Ling, TM9, SWD2+, ...) please elaborate?
> I mean if I can buy the ZOE with a nice fitting shell for 170$ instead of a SWD2+ for 319$ and their soundstage is equally great... why should I pay almost twice the price.


its not. its just to cover the cost of a newly designed shell and the ability to use detachable cables


----------



## cigarello

Is the EMX500 still the best $15 earbud?


----------



## snip3r77

Btw , my **** pt15 cable broke. Should I get another pt15? Buying just the mmcx cable seems not worth it.


----------



## mochill

snip3r77 said:


> Is this the FoTM?


This is for the rest of you life


----------



## chinmie

cigarello said:


> Is the EMX500 still the best $15 earbud?



I'll take the Datura X for under 20 bucks


----------



## bhima

mbwilson111 said:


> So, if I have the yincrow, I should not get the datura x?



i would not, unless you find the yincrow's a bit difficult to fit. This is one thing im noticing with them because they have no stem to make it easier to situate it in your ear.


----------



## mbwilson111

bhima said:


> i would not, unless you find the yincrow's a bit difficult to fit. This is one thing im noticing with them because they have no stem to make it easier to situate it in your ear.



Too late!  Ordered the Datura-X in the middle of the night before we went to bed...after listening to my husbands pair for awhile

Yes, buds without stems are more difficult to fit for me... I love long stems on buds.

The Yincrow truly does have no stem.  I had to get it though... because of the purple cable


----------



## golov17

ClieOS said:


> Certainly not cheap for sure. But if I were only allowed to get one earbud, this is the one I'll want.


 btw..
We can expect a review of TM9 and a comparison with TM7 someday?


----------



## theoutsider

mbwilson111 said:


> The Yincrow truly does have no stem.  I had to get it though... because of the purple cable


----------



## DBaldock9

theoutsider said:


>



I used to work in Allen, TX, at a business next to ColorDynamics, where the Barney TV show got its start.
From the Barney & Friends Wikipedia page - "For several years, the show was taped at the Color Dynamics Studios facility at Greenville Avenue & Bethany Drive in Allen, Texas, after which it moved to The Studios at Las Colinas in Irving, Texas, and then Carrollton, a suburb of Dallas."


----------



## kw8910 (Sep 9, 2018)

Danneq said:


> Agree on the sound of ZoomFred. What foams do you use? I tried different foams and then discovered that the best option for me is to use silicone rings with fins from the VE EX pack with the fins cut off. ZoomFred are the first earbuds that I think sound better without foams than with.
> 
> I have no problems with the cable. The lower part is a bit stiff but not too stiff to use out and about. From the Y splitter up the cable is soft and easy to use.



Currently,  using VE thin foams. I did try the silicone rings with fins cutoff and it sounds very good but not sure yet if it'll be fatiguing for me over longer periods. Yea using a shirt clip, the stiff cable hasn't been an issue for me at all but I can understand if others don't want to do that (listening while nude?). I've been going about the house, doing laundry and dishes with no problem


----------



## kw8910

cigarello said:


> Is the EMX500 still the best $15 earbud?





chinmie said:


> I'll take the Datura X for under 20 bucks



Not sure if Datura X would be the best option for me under $20. Just did some A/B between Datura and the EMX500S and there's a noticeable improvment in sound quality on the EMX500S. There's more clarity in vocals/treble, a bigger more immersive soundstage with deeper sub-bass. The Datura is a bit grainy in comparison. I love the the build quality and comfort of the housing and cables on the Datura for sure though. The other one that looks promising is Yincrow RW-9 but that's still on the way for me


----------



## DAndrew

kw8910 said:


> Only used these for a few hours but the Zoomfred is incredible! Massive 3D soundstage, deep satisfying sub-bass, non-fatiguing, super smooth yet detailed. Just a unique analog signature. Can’t find any flaws in the sound. Only issue might be the stiff lower half of the cable but with the right shirt clip it’s really just as easy to use as anything else.



Did you get the regular driver or the upgraded one?


----------



## kw8910

DAndrew said:


> Did you get the regular driver or the upgraded one?


Herry didn't mention an upgraded driver when I ordered with him. Anyone have one on the way? I still absolutely love the sound the way it is; still working my way up the 300hr burn-in though


----------



## DAndrew

kw8910 said:


> Herry didn't mention an upgraded driver when I ordered with him. Anyone have one on the way? I still absolutely love the sound the way it is; still working my way up the 300hr burn-in though



Apparently you can get an upgraded driver for +30$


----------



## kw8910

DAndrew said:


> Apparently you can get an upgraded driver for +30$


Let me know when you get one


----------



## DAndrew

kw8910 said:


> Let me know when you get one



I am dying to get one but I need to justify it somehow considering I have 3 other TOTL earbuds...


----------



## chinmie (Sep 9, 2018)

kw8910 said:


> Not sure if Datura X would be the best option for me under $20. Just did some A/B between Datura and the EMX500S and there's a noticeable improvment in sound quality on the EMX500S. There's more clarity in vocals/treble, a bigger more immersive soundstage with deeper sub-bass. The Datura is a bit grainy in comparison. I love the the build quality and comfort of the housing and cables on the Datura for sure though. The other one that looks promising is Yincrow RW-9 but that's still on the way for me



i haven't heard of the EMX500S yet, the last time i did was the first EMX500. although it does sound great and might have a better extension, but it does give me ear fatigue to the point of ringing when i had them. the datura is just a more rounded package for me at the price. and better at longer listening session. also I'm bored of the usual plastic MX shell 

besides, for what the EMX500 does, i have the Willsound MK2 that does it better


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Whats the difference between EMX500 and EMX500S?


----------



## kw8910 (Sep 9, 2018)

chinmie said:


> i haven't heard of the EMX500S yet, the last time i did was the first EMX500. although it does sound great and might have a better extension, but it does give me ear fatigue to the point of ringing when i had them. the datura is just a more rounded package for me at the price. and better at longer listening session. also I'm bored of the usual plastic MX shell
> 
> besides, for what the EMX500 does, i have the Willsound MK2 that does it better



I hear you about the MX shell thing, not my favorite type but they keep making them!  I had the EMX500 a long time ago and didn't like it, got rid of it, so I never really considered the EMX500S until recently and it's quite a step up from the old one. Just better all around sound; separation, imaging, transparency and especially sound stage. Goes on sale around $10 once in a while so it's quite a bit cheaper than the Willsound. I have MK2.2 version (which has less bass as yours) but sound quality between the two is closer than you'd expect for the price, I might even say the 500S is smoother and more full bodied with deeper sub-bass but don't have it with me at the moment to compare.


----------



## blackberriesandthinkpads (Sep 9, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> At the moment, absolutely yes.



What foams are you using with them?

I just recently discovered the packs of foams I ordered with my Monk+ came with two different thicknesses. Started using the thin ones, sound and comfort got significantly better. Since TM9 uses the same housing I was hoping that thin foams are best with it. I find thicker foams increase bass but recess the mids, I don't like recessed sound.



Danneq said:


> Agree on the sound of ZoomFred. What foams do you use? I tried different foams and then discovered that the best option for me is to use silicone rings with fins from the VE EX pack with the fins cut off. ZoomFred are the first earbuds that I think sound better without foams than with.
> 
> I have no problems with the cable. The lower part is a bit stiff but not too stiff to use out and about. From the Y splitter up the cable is soft and easy to use.
> 
> ...



I saw you post and was hoping you got your TM9 by now! 

Hope you get them soon.



kw8910 said:


> Yea using a shirt clip, the stiff cable hasn't been an issue for me at all but I can understand if others don't want to do that (listening while nude?)



The struggle is real, 95% of my listening is in the nude.


I'm on the fence between the Zoomfred and TM9. They are identical in price. @ClieOS have you heard Zoomfred? How do they compare to your TM9 (sound wise)? I know you hate complicated cables.

Does the Zoomfred use the same MX500 shell as the Monk+?


----------



## Danneq

kw8910 said:


> Currently,  using VE thin foams. I did try the silicone rings with fins cutoff and it sounds very good but not sure yet if it'll be fatiguing for me over longer periods. Yea using a shirt clip, the stiff cable hasn't been an issue for me at all but I can understand if others don't want to do that (listening while nude?). I've been going about the house, doing laundry and dishes with no problem



I am usually sensitive to sharp upper mids and highs but not with ZoomFred. How many hours do you have on them? My pair is a bit over 120-130 hours. They already had 20 hours burn on them when I bought them from Herry. I didn't use to believe in burn in but mainly with DIY earbuds using high quality cables I have noticed some difference.

Well, if you are a guy and listen to ZoomFred nude, you can always use a clip somewhere on your body... 






blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> I saw you post and was hoping you got your TM9 by now!
> 
> Hope you get them soon.
> 
> ...



Well, if I receive them before October, I'm happy. I am really serious.  

ZoomFred uses regular MX500 shells just like VE earbuds, Blox and other smaller earbud makers use.


----------



## chinmie

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> The struggle is real, 95% of my listening is in the nude.



chilly...and difficult to use the shirt clip..but (painfully) doable


----------



## chinmie

kw8910 said:


> I hear you about the MX shell thing, not my favorite type but they keep making them!  I had the EMX500 a long time ago and didn't like it, got rid of it, so I never really considered the EMX500S until recently and it's quite a step up from the old one. Just better all around sound; separation, imaging, transparency and especially sound stage. Goes on sale around $10 once in a while so it's quite a bit cheaper than the Willsound. I have MK2.2 version (which has less bass as yours) but sound quality between the two is closer than you'd expect for the price, I might even say the 500S is smoother and more full bodied with deeper sub-bass but don't have it with me at the moment to compare.



thanks for the info, i might check them out or recommend them to my friends so i could check them out. in the mean time, I'm eyeing on the Yincrow RW777 or the EBX... @HungryPanda and @mbwilson111  seeing you have both at your household, would you please share some thoughts on them?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 9, 2018)

chinmie said:


> in the mean time, I'm eyeing on the Yincrow RW777 or the EBX... @HungryPanda and @mbwilson111 seeing you have both at your household, would you please share some thoughts on them?



Neither of us can actually compare them at the moment as he is at work for a couple of days and I am home....maybe he can do it later in the week.  I am not good at comparisons at all.

Have you memorized our lists?  

...but if I let him listen to my Yincrow will he steal it from me?   hmmmm...


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> Neither of us can actually compare them at the moment as he is at work for a couple of days and I am home....maybe he can do it later in the week.  I am not good at comparisons at all.
> 
> Have you memorized our lists?



i know mr. Wilson mentioned about the EBX and that you have the purple cable Yincrow..but to memorize all your collection (or worst yet both of you) is a pretty daunting task!


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 9, 2018)

chinmie said:


> i know mr. Wilson mentioned about the EBX and that you have the purple cable Yincrow..but to memorize all your collection (or worst yet both of you) is a pretty daunting task!



Interesting that you are thinking about choosing one of the two.  The EBX cost a lot more than the Yincrow.  

Are you getting the Fukubukuro?  That was described as a little brother of the EBX.  I wonder if it will look similar at all.  Mine has left China I think... sometimes it will say that for a few days so not sure.  Hoping it arrives sometime this week.  

Should we wait until everyone has it before revealing photos?

I don't think even I have my collection memorized... lol.  I need to update my list.


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> Interesting that you are thinking about choosing one of the two.  The EBX cost a lot more than the Yincrow.
> 
> Are you getting the Fukubukuro?  That was described as a little brother of the EBX.  I wonder if it will look similar at all.  Mine has left China I think... sometimes it will say that for a few days so not sure.  Hoping it arrives sometime this week.
> 
> ...



i like their form factor (a more important factor when it comes to collecting) and how people describe their sound that it might suits my preference.

i didn't get the fukubukuro. i was hesitant whether i would like them or not. i jumped on the datura x simply because of the looks (and surprised by it's good sound)

please do post the picture as soon as you get them!


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 9, 2018)

chinmie said:


> i like their form factor (a more important factor when it comes to collecting) and how people describe their sound that it might suits my preference.



I  just put the Yincrow in my ears and when I take them out I will leave them to burn in for the night.. can't remember if I did it before.  I think they came when I was getting too many things at once and they have not yet gotten much attention.  They do sound really good. I bet you would like them.  What color would you get if you do get them?



chinmie said:


> i didn't get the fukubukuro. i was hesitant whether i would like them or not. i jumped on the datura x simply because of the looks (and surprised by it's good sound)



I had to get the Fukubukuro... if it turns out to be awesome, I did not want to be left out   Beautiful cable on the Datura.  That alone is worth a good part of the cost.



chinmie said:


> please do post the picture as soon as you get them!



I would hate to spoil the surprise for  someone else who does not get them as quickly.  I will put any pictures in spoilers with big warnings.

These Yincrow really are  nice... now how am I supposed to get any sleep.  It is always so hard to stop the music especially when I am on my own.  I have accidentally stayed up until dawn listening to music sometimes.


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> I  just put the Yincrow in my ears and when I take them out I will leave them to burn in for the night.. can't remember if I did it before.  I think they came when I was getting too many things at once and they have not yet gotten much attention.  They do sound really good. I bet you would like them.  What color would you get if you do get them?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



the black with red cable looks great!


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> btw..
> We can expect a review of TM9 and a comparison with TM7 someday?



Very unlikely I will write review of any length these days, Simply don't have the time nor energy.




blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> What foams are you using with them?
> 
> I just recently discovered the packs of foams I ordered with my Monk+ came with two different thicknesses. Started using the thin ones, sound and comfort got significantly better. Since TM9 uses the same housing I was hoping that thin foams are best with it. I find thicker foams increase bass but recess the mids, I don't like recessed sound.



I tried various foam on TM9, but settled on VE thin foam.


----------



## snip3r77

Looking at Qian69.
https://audiobudget.com/product/QianYun/Qian69

what do you guys think?


----------



## golov17

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/simphonio-dragon-2-earbuds#overview


----------



## 40760

golov17 said:


> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/simphonio-dragon-2-earbuds#overview



Having them in my ears now playing some jazz while I finish up some work... 

Simply beautiful...


----------



## theoutsider

DBaldock9 said:


> I used to work in Allen, TX, at a business next to ColorDynamics, where the Barney TV show got its start.
> From the Barney & Friends Wikipedia page - "For several years, the show was taped at the Color Dynamics Studios facility at Greenville Avenue & Bethany Drive in Allen, Texas, after which it moved to The Studios at Las Colinas in Irving, Texas, and then Carrollton, a suburb of Dallas."


You might've come across this guy in the early 90s.


Barney is easily the scariest looking kids show character ever. Also, if you noticed, Barney has no ears so he can not listen to music.


----------



## rkw

golov17 said:


> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/simphonio-dragon-2-earbuds#overview


Interesting, it was $240 the last time on Massdrop, now down to $200 just 3 months later.


----------



## golov17

rkw said:


> Interesting, it was $240 the last time on Massdrop, now down to $200 just 3 months later.


two days before the end, sells the leftovers, maybe


----------



## subwoof3r

ClieOS said:


> I tried various foam on TM9, but settled on VE thin foam.


It's my choice too.
Since I heard them with VE thin foams, I didn't feel the need to switch to anything else since the beginning.


----------



## kw8910

Danneq said:


> I am usually sensitive to sharp upper mids and highs but not with ZoomFred. How many hours do you have on them? My pair is a bit over 120-130 hours. They already had 20 hours burn on them when I bought them from Herry. I didn't use to believe in burn in but mainly with DIY earbuds using high quality cables I have noticed some difference.
> 
> Well, if you are a guy and listen to ZoomFred nude, you can always use a clip somewhere on your body...



Time to get nipples pierced for that shirt clip.. 

I have maybe 40-50 hours, it sounds great without foams but mx shells are not the most comfortable, so for longer periods the thin foams might be better for me than the rubber rings. I hope the post office surprises you and brings you that Blox sooner than you expect..



chinmie said:


> thanks for the info, i might check them out or recommend them to my friends so i could check them out. in the mean time, I'm eyeing on the Yincrow RW777 or the EBX... @HungryPanda and @mbwilson111  seeing you have both at your household, would you please share some thoughts on them?



The EMX500S that I have has the clear blue cabling/black shell, the one with the clear silver cable and clear shell is supposedly darker and more bass heavy. It's a good gifting earbud since it's cheap, easy to drive and has a enjoyable sound sig for casual listeners, similar to MK2. I was surprised by this one for the price


----------



## snip3r77

seanc6441 said:


> Blue is normal for me, I don't think i have any buds that sit inside the red parameter. If you find the seal lacking use smaller buds with thicker foams to allow some margin for a better seal.
> 
> *Hiegi full foams, hiegi donuts and VE thick donuts* work best for a good seal in my ears with PK and smaller size shells.



May I know the difference btw those OEM foams that are provided stock? Thanks


----------



## snip3r77

How is the Monk Lite 120ohm? Plus $14 from the normal Monk Lite I feel it's abit too much


luedriver said:


> Christmas came early this year
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## snip3r77

chinmie said:


> yup, i also held back from the TM9 because i think for now i already have more than enough. the daturaX was a really impulsive buying at my part when they sell them at 15usd and i really like the look of them. it turns out to be a great buy, but coming back to the question "do i really need it?", then no, i don't need it .
> teasing aside, i also think between your zen 1,mk2, and svara, this purchase is not necessary (you could if you want them though )



Sometimes I feel buying a 50USD will be better than buying 5USD x 10 earbuds


----------



## chinmie

snip3r77 said:


> Sometimes I feel buying a 50USD will be better than buying 5USD x 10 earbuds



yet sometimes i see people scoff at others who buys 300 or even 600 dollars earbuds  saying that it's too expensive. 

justifying the worth of something depends on the individuals. there is no right or wrong in this. to have a great time, that's the whole point of having any hobby


----------



## luedriver

snip3r77 said:


> How is the Monk Lite 120ohm? Plus $14 from the normal Monk Lite I feel it's abit too much



idk, haven't burned it in yet but I used it once (with ve odyssey) to watch some tv shows online, and it didn't feel like it was lacking anywhere, I am no expert but I could almost say they were neutral sounding, but I feel that the ve odyssey really helps it, (even though I haven't A/B it with my smsl m3 dac/amp to know any difference for sure)


----------



## snip3r77

chinmie said:


> yet sometimes i see people scoff at others who buys 300 or even 600 dollars earbuds  saying that it's too expensive.
> 
> justifying the worth of something depends on the individuals. there is no right or wrong in this. to have a great time, that's the whole point of having any hobby



US50 now can buy a WIllsound tsk tsk


----------



## DAndrew

Danneq said:


> Agree on the sound of ZoomFred. What foams do you use? I tried different foams and then discovered that the best option for me is to use silicone rings with fins from the VE EX pack with the fins cut off. ZoomFred are the first earbuds that I think sound better without foams than with.



Thanks a lot for this, the rings are actually really nice without the fins


----------



## tim0chan

Anyone has links to this kind of shell where the area under the stem has the same curve as the original pks? The sr2 in "pk" shell does not have that same lip and my ears do not like that. Hoping to get a few (maybe many) for myself to play around with


----------



## ShabtabQ

snip3r77 said:


> damn. the mmx cable broke :<


I'm sorry to hear that but I have no Idea how the stock cable is that comes with the PT15, I use it with the cable that came with TinAudio T2.


----------



## snip3r77

ShabtabQ said:


> I'm sorry to hear that but I have no Idea how the stock cable is that comes with the PT15, I use it with the cable that came with TinAudio T2.



No problem, I just bought another mmcx cable.


----------



## mbwilson111

snip3r77 said:


> No problem, I just bought another mmcx cable.



What went wrong with the stock cable?  I have the PT15 but have never attempted to remove it as I  have heard it is too tight and people were afraid it might break.    Did yours break when trying to remove or was it something else?


----------



## snip3r77

mbwilson111 said:


> What went wrong with the stock cable?  I have the PT15 but have never attempted to remove it as I  have heard it is too tight and people were afraid it might break.    Did yours break when trying to remove or was it something else?



The right side has intermittent open circuit, the buds are OK


----------



## mbwilson111

snip3r77 said:


> The right side has intermittent open circuit, the buds are OK



So is that a defect in the connector on the cable?  Was it always like that?

Good that the buds are ok and you will probably enjoy a new (better?) cable.


----------



## snip3r77

mbwilson111 said:


> So is that a defect in the connector on the cable?  Was it always like that?
> 
> Good that the buds are ok and you will probably enjoy a new (better?) cable.



It's the cables 
Don't worry, be happy


----------



## waynes world

snip3r77 said:


> How is the Monk Lite 120ohm? Plus $14 from the normal Monk Lite I feel it's abit too much



I think they need an amp to come alive and shine. I love mine amped, and $14 is a silly low price for them imo.


----------



## mochill

DAndrew said:


> I am dying to get one but I need to justify it somehow considering I have 3 other TOTL earbuds...


The more the merrier


----------



## golov17

waynes world said:


> I think they need an amp to come alive and shine. I love mine amped, and $14 is a silly low price for them imo.


Amen )))


----------



## bhima

These NICEHK MX760's are burning in nicely. While lacking a bit of the balance the Yincrow RW-777 have in the highs, they really do sound quite detailed with good separation and relatively large soundstage. These are definitely more V-shaped than the Yincrows as well, but not in a way the diminishes resolution. Might be a bit too bright for some people, not sibilant though, as they don't have a glaringly large 2-4k peak like the Datura-X has.


----------



## waynes world

bhima said:


> These NICEHK MX760's are burning in nicely. While lacking a bit of the balance the Yincrow RW-777 have in the highs, they really do sound quite detailed with good separation and relatively large soundstage. These are definitely more V-shaped than the Yincrows as well, but not in a way the diminishes resolution. Might be a bit too bright for some people, not sibilant though, as they don't have a glaringly large 2-4k peak like the Datura-X has.



Yup, those sound like the $29 graphenes that I remember and loved (before they broke).


----------



## gattari (Sep 10, 2018)

bhima said:


> These NICEHK MX760's are burning in nicely. While lacking a bit of the balance the Yincrow RW-777 have in the highs, they really do sound quite detailed with good separation and relatively large soundstage. These are definitely more V-shaped than the Yincrows as well, but not in a way the diminishes resolution. Might be a bit too bright for some people, not sibilant though, as they don't have a glaringly large 2-4k peak like the Datura-X has.


Other ears other opnions   , mine are not Vshaped, the medium is perfect and I like graphene in every aspect, to me sound simply great.


----------



## mbwilson111

gattari said:


> Other ears other opnions   , mine are not Vshaped, the medium is perfect and I like graphene in every aspect, to me sound simply great.



... and I even like the "new" graphene which is usually not considered to be as good as the  more expensive "old" graphene.


----------



## waynes world

gattari said:


> Other ears other opnions   , mine are not Vshaped, the medium is perfect and I like graphene in every aspect, to me sound simply great.



I agree with you about how enjoyable they are. But, I think the graphenes are probably "slightly V shaped" (like many buds are), and they definitely could be "more V shaped than other buds". I don't take that as a negative though - it's simply my preferred signature, and hence I like the $29 graphenes in every aspect as you do.


----------



## seanc6441

Anyone


snip3r77 said:


> May I know the difference btw those OEM foams that are provided stock? Thanks


Hiegi foams are slightly thicker (spongy) and have a very consistent density/quality. It's not super dense but it is thick. The newer batch of hiegi donuts have this same foam, it used to be denser but now it's like the fulls and IMO is superior to the original in sound for most earbuds.

VE donuts have a similar density foam but are even thicker again, they provide the most cushioning of all.

I say they provide the best seal for pk shells but that doesn't necessarily mean the best SQ for all PK earbuds. Really depends on the sound signature you are looking to achieve.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 10, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> It's my choice too.
> Since I heard them with VE thin foams, I didn't feel the need to switch to anything else since the beginning.


Try the ali thins. To my ears unless you use the original monk thins (the extremely thin ones) the imaging really suffers with the newer monk thins. The sound is not as focused as the ali thins or the original monk thins IMO.

I tried on multiple buds and  I always chooss ali thins over them for the better imaging and focus, even if the sound sig benefitted the monk thins slightly more, I really dislike hazy imaging.


----------



## subwoof3r

seanc6441 said:


> Try the ali thins. To my ears unless you use the original monk thins (the extremely thin ones) the imaging really suffers with the newer monk thins. The sound is not as focused as the ali thins or the original monk thins IMO.
> 
> I tried on multiple buds and  I always chooss ali thins over them for the better imaging and focus, even if the sound sig benefitted the monk thins slightly more, I really dislike hazy imaging.


Intersting, will take a look  can you please share the link where you bought them?


----------



## wazzupi

Woo whats the best earbud under 50 dollars for rock i enjoy vocals and large soundstage something like a hd650 would be nice.


----------



## seanc6441

subwoof3r said:


> Intersting, will take a look  can you please share the link where you bought them?


People need to start using the search function i posted the link like 20 times now haha

But one more for good measure  


http://s.aliexpress.com/6NVZzQzy


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> I agree with you about how enjoyable they are. But, I think the graphenes are probably "slightly V shaped" (like many buds are), and they definitely could be "more V shaped than other buds". I don't take that as a negative though - it's simply my preferred signature, and hence I like the $29 graphenes in every aspect as you do.


The few graphs show them actually as quite well rounded except for a few peaks in the lower treble and a slightly rolled off sub bass. I imagine this is the metal grille variant. My plastic grille version pre modding was ridiculously bloated in the bass and thus more V shaped.

They actually sound very good once i modded them but there's a bit of hsrshness in that lower treble and a little too much upper bass to make the low mids seem slightly recessed. But the detail is very good.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> The few graphs show them actually as quite well rounded except for a few peaks in the lower treble and a slightly rolled off sub bass. I imagine this is the metal grille variant. My plastic grille version pre modding was ridiculously bloated in the bass and thus more V shaped.
> 
> They actually sound very good once i modded them but there's a bit of hsrshness in that lower treble and a little too much upper bass to make the low mids seem slightly recessed. But the detail is very good.



I find it kind of sad that we don't have much to argue about anymore


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> I find it kind of sad that we don't have much to argue about anymore


Are you getting the fukukukukuburororo's? Lets hope we can argue over that one


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Are you getting the fukukukukuburororo's? Lets hope we can argue over that one



No fukaburo 'bro - @mbwilson111 didn't pester me hard enough lol


----------



## groucho69

seanc6441 said:


> People need to start using the search function i posted the link like 20 times now haha
> 
> But one more for good measure
> 
> ...



And they are damn good too.


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> No fukaburo 'bro - @mbwilson111 didn't pester me hard enough lol



..or soon enough apparently.

Mine have arrived in the country.


----------



## activatorfly

Hasn't anyone received their fukukukukuburororo's yet ???


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 10, 2018)

activatorfly said:


> Hasn't anyone received their fukukukukuburororo's yet ???



...as I said.. mine is in the country.. so if it goes on the move tonight it should be here tomorrow or Wednesday.  I don't want to spoil the fun for anyone so I won't post pictures or give much info until others have them.


Just rechecked the tracking..
.
Your item has left our International Logistics Centre and is on its way to you. More information will be available as it travels through the network.

08:43pm
*Item has left our International Processing Centre* Heathrow Worldwide Distribution Centre, United Kingdom


----------



## vladstef

activatorfly said:


> Hasn't anyone received their fukukukukuburororo's yet ???



I asked NiceHCK for a photo of Fukubukuro... and he said no - when you receive it you will know.


----------



## mbwilson111

vladstef said:


> I asked NiceHCK for a photo of Fukubukuro... and he said no - when you receive it you will know.



This is why I am not going to share a picture until others get them.


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> This is why I am not going to share a picture until others get them.


Aren't you going to review them??


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 10, 2018)

activatorfly said:


> Aren't you going to review them??



I am not a reviewer... I am a music lover!  Sometimes I just say if I like something... or not but I expect to like these.  The tricky part for me is that the info on the page does say they are worn cable over ear.  I  have never done that with a bud before so I have no idea how difficult that will be for me.   I will share photos later but not while others are still waiting. But first they have to get here!


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> I am not a reviewer... I am a music lover!  Sometimes I just say if I like something... or not but I expect to like these.  The tricky part for me is that the info on the page does say they are worn cable over ear.  I  have never done that with a bud before so I have no idea how difficult that will be fore me.   I will share photos later but not while others are still waiting.


I don't wear them over ear too...unlike the EBX - there's really no need!


----------



## Lothar101

Would it be worth getting the RY4s or RY04 or Qian 25 since I have Vido and FENGRU DIY EMX500 Bro already?


----------



## mbwilson111

activatorfly said:


> I don't wear them over ear too...unlike the EBX - there's really no need!



wait.. are you sayiing you have the Fukubukuro already?


----------



## seanc6441

groucho69 said:


> And they are damn good too.


I'm soon not gonna be using any conventional foams. They are all sub par to me tbh. You can have $200+ earbuds and yet the foams are still the same quality and design as the ones used on $3 vidos?

Imagine having a TOTL headphone like HD800/Stax L700/Focal Utopia and using the same cheapo pads as a $30 Superlux can or grado flat pads... It would ruin the sound.

I've been thinking of an idea which I kind of prototyped using other foam and I know exactly how to implement it in earbuds but obviously have no means to make them so I'm left with a rough DIY variant.

Needless to say they sound better than all the other foams you can buy without question, and theoretically it would be easy to make different variants using slightly different density to tune exactly the level of bass or treble you want.

Foam pads in their current form have no real structure or shape to benefit the sound. It's basically just a filter of X density and thickness between your ear and the driver. Like a KSC75 or Grado flat pad basically.

When It's easy to say that a bowl shape or donut shape with different density (so like pourous foam inside, dense foam om the outside) would offer way better acoustic properties.

Anyway that was my little rant. Foams really suck that's why you have to spend so long choosing them and sometimes modding them


----------



## mbwilson111

Lothar101 said:


> Would it be worth getting the RY4s or RY04 or Qian 25 since I have Vido and FENGRU DIY EMX500 Bro already?



I seem to be one of very few people who  have  the RY04.  All the others you mentioned are said to be bass heavy.  I do have the Qian25 but not the others.  The RY04 is not bass heavy.  I find it pretty balanced and very easy to listen to.

Someone described the RY04 well in this post
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1266#post-13349120

Of course there have been the usual complaints that the RY04 has "no" bass and recommend the RY4S.  I think those  people want more of a thump.  Give the RY04  a try.  I know mine did not cost much.

I bought the Quin because it was only £2 and I have the 39 and 69... need to complete my Qian collection  I have not spent any time with it because of some of the other buds that have been arriving.


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> wait.. are you sayiing you have the Fukubukuro already?


Yes....I thought you had them too??


----------



## mbwilson111

activatorfly said:


> Yes....I thought you had them too??



I said they have arrived in my country.

They could be here tomorrow... I am sure they will at least be here by Wednesday.  Glad to know I do not have to wear them over ear.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 10, 2018)

Rough idea of what im talking about but this is basically half the design (without the dense outer layer to improve the bass response)



 
Red can be denser foam, blue is very pourous. The centre is almost foamless.

The sound is much more spacious and fleshed out. Much closer to a headphone staging. Needs a dense outer layer to bring up the sub bass and a fuller low mids, but compared to standard foams its no contest.


----------



## Ziggomatic

Has anyone tried an aftermarket cable with their Toneking TO400S? I really like the ergonomics of the stock cable, but wondering if anyone would swear by another cable as a sound upgrade... Thanks!


----------



## cathee

seanc6441 said:


> Rough idea of what im talking about but this is basically half the design (without the dense outer layer to improve the bass response)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I do something that kind of mimics what you're describing. I usually use my earbuds with double foams: extra thin (generic cheap, rips if you tug it too much) foams + a thicker donut foam. The detail/sparkle in the highs are maintained as much as possible while kicking up the bass a bit.


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> I said they have arrived in my country.
> 
> They could be here tomorrow... I am sure they will at least be here by Wednesday.  Glad to know I do not have to wear them over ear.


Well mine haven't moved or needed any adjustment all day! - I too was a bit apprehensive beforehand, as I was told that EBX needed to be worn over ear - otherwise if worn down - they need constant adjustment to avoid falling out, due to heavy shells!


----------



## Zerohour88

wazzupi said:


> Woo whats the best earbud under 50 dollars for rock i enjoy vocals and large soundstage something like a hd650 would be nice.



no idea about rock, but the TO180 is quite nice for vocals and have good soundstage (based on impressions, the TO200 would also be a bit better in that regards)

or you could try the various Willsounds


----------



## tim0chan

tim0chan said:


> Anyone has links to this kind of shell where the area under the stem has the same curve as the original pks? The sr2 in "pk" shell does not have that same lip and my ears do not like that. Hoping to get a few (maybe many) for myself to play around with


Thx for ignoring guys


----------



## activatorfly

Zerohour88 said:


> no idea about rock, but the TO180 is quite nice for vocals and have good soundstage (based on impressions, the TO200 would also be a bit better in that regards)
> 
> or you could try the various Willsounds


TO200 sound great for most genres - especially once ugraded to a balanced cable imo!


----------



## mbwilson111

tim0chan said:


> Thx for ignoring guys



maybe no one knew the answer?  I wonder if one of the DIY threads could help.


----------



## seanc6441

cathee said:


> I do something that kind of mimics what you're describing. I usually use my earbuds with double foams: extra thin (generic cheap, rips if you tug it too much) foams + a thicker donut foam. The detail/sparkle in the highs are maintained as much as possible while kicking up the bass a bit.


I've tried double foams and i find they congest the sound because you are compressing the inner foam witha thick outer foam. I think a seamless single foam with two densities and a scooped out 'bowl' or completely open middle would perform considerably better.

My tests have indicated as much at least to my ears, whereas no matter how much attempts I make at double foams or mod foams some part of the sound always seems to suffer because the current foam pads dont hold any shape and do compress when stacked.


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> I said they have arrived in my country.
> 
> They could be here tomorrow... I am sure they will at least be here by Wednesday.  Glad to know I do not have to wear them over ear.


It will be interesting to hear what you (and the other 197) think of them - been checking the forum all day to see if any one else had received them! lol


----------



## snip3r77

seanc6441 said:


> Anyone
> 
> Hiegi foams are slightly thicker (spongy) and have a very consistent density/quality. It's not super dense but it is thick. The newer batch of hiegi donuts have this same foam, it used to be denser but now it's like the fulls and IMO is superior to the original in sound for most earbuds.
> 
> ...



I can’t seem to find hiegi donuts


----------



## snip3r77

mbwilson111 said:


> ... and I even like the "new" graphene which is usually not considered to be as good as the  more expensive "old" graphene.



May I know the difference btw old and new ? I got the new graphene, am I missing a lot ?


----------



## mbwilson111

snip3r77 said:


> May I know the difference btw old and new ? I got the new graphene, am I missing a lot ?



I only have the new.   @waynes world  has or has had both.


----------



## activatorfly (Sep 10, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I said they have arrived in my country.
> 
> They could be here tomorrow... I am sure they will at least be here by Wednesday.  Glad to know I do not have to wear them over ear.


Ironically, over the past few weeks I ordered EBX three times...and cancelled three times haha!! (- as a direct consequence of rumours about quality control issues!) - Instead, I bought two alternative pairs of buds......then subsequently couldn't resist pulling the trigger on the enigmatic Fukubukuro's!


----------



## Astonish

Can anyone recommend me a good earbud available on amazon prime that’s under $75? Just want something for sleep listening and portable use.

My favorite sound signature is forward mids/mid centric. I listen to a lot of edm and vocals so it should have decent bass. Rolled off treble is fine, 650s are my favorite headphones so treble doesn’t have to sparkle and extend just want good mids and decent bass.

Thanks


----------



## ClieOS

Astonish said:


> Can anyone recommend me a good earbud available on amazon prime that’s under $75? Just want something for sleep listening and portable use.
> 
> My favorite sound signature is forward mids/mid centric. I listen to a lot of edm and vocals so it should have decent bass. Rolled off treble is fine, 650s are my favorite headphones so treble doesn’t have to sparkle and extend just want good mids and decent bass.
> 
> Thanks



The limiting factor here is probably Amazon Prime. Unless we are talking Amazon Japan, which does have some good (but often marked up) selection of earbuds, most good earbud simply don't make it to Amazon, left alone Prime.


---------------------

On a unrelated news - words are Simphonio is developing the SWD3 and a super expensive (>$1400) model called VP1. The latter will have the new type of ceramic diaphragm that is more commonly found on higher end loudspeaker as well as their new IEM, the VR1.


....so save up?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 10, 2018)

Astonish said:


> Can anyone recommend me a good earbud available on amazon prime that’s under $75? Just want something for sleep listening and portable use.
> 
> My favorite sound signature is forward mids/mid centric. I listen to a lot of edm and vocals so it should have decent bass. Rolled off treble is fine, 650s are my favorite headphones so treble doesn’t have to sparkle and extend just want good mids and decent bass.
> 
> Thanks



What about these... certainly compact enough for sleeping.  I have a pair and they are nice.  I probably would not sleep with a bud but I know that some do.

https://www.amazon.com/Edifier-H185...8&qid=1536626194&sr=8-1&keywords=edifier+h185

Personally I like this model more but maybe not for sleeping... and I know there are people who prefer the sound of the 185.

https://www.amazon.com/Edifier-H190...8&qid=1536626319&sr=1-1&keywords=edifier+h190

Also very comfortable and sound really good to me

https://www.amazon.com/Headphones-E...id=1536626701&sr=1-1&keywords=mrice+e100&th=1


----------



## waynes world

snip3r77 said:


> May I know the difference btw old and new ? I got the new graphene, am I missing a lot ?



I wrote this before:



> They are quite a bit different. I understand your impressions of the new $16 version (although I don't feel as negative about them in stock form as you do - I still like them once my ears get accustomed and if I am not ab'ing with others). But they sound quite a bit different than the old $29 graphenes. My old ones are broken now, but my recollection is that they had nice sub-bass extension, not much of a mid-bass hump, very clear (but not sharp to my ears) highs, nice overall clarity, good soundstage and imaging etc. I really loved them.


----------



## golov17

https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=576940933514


----------



## Astonish

ClieOS said:


> The limiting factor here is probably Amazon Prime. Unless we are talking Amazon Japan, which does have some good (but often marked up) selection of earbuds, most good earbud simply don't make it to Amazon, left alone Prime.
> 
> 
> ---------------------
> ...



Amazon preferred, but doesn’t really matter. And that sounds great, but I’m good on all that lol I prefer over ears, but they’re not always convenient when traveling.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> I've tried double foams and i find they congest the sound because you are compressing the inner foam witha thick outer foam. I think a seamless single foam with two densities and a scooped out 'bowl' or completely open middle would perform considerably better.
> 
> My tests have indicated as much at least to my ears, whereas no matter how much attempts I make at double foams or mod foams some part of the sound always seems to suffer because the current foam pads dont hold any shape and do compress when stacked.



what's that double sided tape that you use so thst the foams dont slide around? if I'm not mistaken you've mentioned them in this thread, but i cannot find it again


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=576940933514


This one is said to be Poseidon's upgrade, but hopefully not quite as expensive.

Also, the housing is made with titanium so it is said to be almost as light as plastic and stay in the ear easier.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 10, 2018)

chinmie said:


> what's that double sided tape that you use so thst the foams dont slide around? if I'm not mistaken you've mentioned them in this thread, but i cannot find it again


SZBFT 2rolls 1mm~5mm*5M Strong pet Adhesive PET Red Film Clear Double Sided Tape No Trace for Phone LCD Screen free shipping
http://s.aliexpress.com/UNjeARnI

Great stuff, im using the 3mm version for earbud modding, 2mm might be a good choice too. You can just cut off a strip, place it around the edge of the shell, peel off the top layer then the tape is pliable/flexable to conform to the curve of the shell.

Using that stuff I can put down a layer of foam and apply any foam pads i want over it to create a different tuning. Kinda like how headphones have inner foam disks and then the pads over it.

It's still not perfect but it's ok for now, certainly gives you more options than stock foams alone. It only impacts the thickness of the foam but not the diameter so basically you won't be increasing the overall size as much as you would if you were to stack two foams.


----------



## golov17

ClieOS said:


> This one is said to be Poseidon's upgrade, but hopefully not quite as expensive.
> 
> Also, the housing is made with titanium so it is said to be almost as light as plastic and stay in the ear easier.


Oldies Ti )))


----------



## antdroid (Sep 10, 2018)

Just received the Yincrow RW-9 from the AliExpress brands sale via NiceCHK store.

This is a really solid ear bud! It is less v-shaped than the X6, with more treble and upper-mids, while still retaining the good warmy bass. With the extra airy treble, the details are increased over the X6. I am super content so far! 

That said, the mids are still a tad recessed. Bringing up the 250-2kHz region a bit helps round out this ear bud


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 10, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> This one is said to be Poseidon's upgrade, but hopefully not quite as expensive.
> 
> Also, the housing is made with titanium so it is said to be almost as light as plastic and stay in the ear easier.


And only 29usd what a deal lol

Joking aside I think this will be the best earbud in existance ^^

The shell is a venting Ling shell (wish the black ling was vented). The housing is perfect IMO.

That FR graph if real is insanely good. Look how linear it is up to 8k...

I want it but holy god will it be expensive id imagine?


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> SZBFT 2rolls 1mm~5mm*5M Strong pet Adhesive PET Red Film Clear Double Sided Tape No Trace for Phone LCD Screen free shipping
> http://s.aliexpress.com/UNjeARnI
> 
> Great stuff, im using the 3mm version for earbud modding, 2mm might be a good choice too. You can just cut off a strip, place it around the edge of the shell, peel off the top layer then the tape is pliable/flexable to conform to the curve of the shell.
> ...



thanks! i want to make donut foams like those VE rubber rings: only cover the outer rim of the shell, but leaving the front side and the vent side completely open. i reckon it will do wonders on my zen 2, red demun, and datura. i also curious about that wrap you use on those badminton grip, will it be useful for modding or is it too thick for it?


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 10, 2018)

chinmie said:


> thanks! i want to make donut foams like those VE rubber rings: only cover the outer rim of the shell, but leaving the front side and the vent side completely open. i reckon it will do wonders on my zen 2, red demun, and datura. i also curious about that wrap you use on those badminton grip, will it be useful for modding or is it too thick for it?


It was wayyy too thick. Better to use this tape and cut up a regular foam or thick foam to use instead.

I've tried what you are thinking of doing, it doesn't always work out too well because you are changing the fit in ear slightly so sometimes you actually lose low end, but its good to experiment with.

You may actually get better results by putting a ali thin foam 'disk' on the front stickied down, and leaving the sides and back foamless. It actually sounds really good on some buds. It sounds akin to using thin foams but with a reduced low end response.


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> And only 29usd what a deal lol
> 
> Joking aside I think this will be the best earbud in existance ^^
> 
> ...



If only the pre-order price is the final price...

Anyway, the housing looks pretty much the same as current Lings, but the internal is said to have been totally reworked and thus the tuning will be different.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> It was wayyy too thick. Better to use this tape and cut up a regular foam or thick foam to use instead.
> 
> I've tried what you are thinking of doing, it doesn't always work out too well because you are changing the fit in ear slightly so sometimes you actually lose low end, but its good to experiment with.
> 
> You may actually get better results by putting a ali thin foam 'disk' on the front stickied down, and leaving the sides and back foamless. It actually sounds really good on some buds. It sounds akin to using thin foams but with a reduced low end response.



nooo.. that's the exact opposite to what i want, i want more bass without impacting the mids and highs at all 
but i would definitely try that if have bassy earbuds that also need the treble tone down


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 10, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> If only the pre-order price is the final price...
> 
> Anyway, the housing looks pretty much the same as current Lings, but the internal is said to have been totally reworked and thus the tuning will be different.


Well it has 3 extra venting ports on each side which would have a big effect. I just wonder if you were to open up a ling and do the same would the tuning go wonky.

I imagine after finishing the Ling's they realised they could get greater air and openess from a more open/vented housing but the lings drivers required a more closed housing.

Now that they can do a 'v2' they can tune the driver to the shell so to speak... Possibly, just a guess on my part.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 10, 2018)

chinmie said:


> nooo.. that's the exact opposite to what i want, i want more bass without impacting the mids and highs at all
> but i would definitely try that if have bassy earbuds that also need the treble tone down


Problem is that with more seal around the sides the bass will not be the only aspect effected. Sometimes the highs get more prominent, the low mids get effected etc.

Did you try multi hole, but using a ali thin foam? That should keep roughly the same treble and mids but bump the low end slightly.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Problem is that with more seal around the sides the bass will not be the only aspect effected. Sometimes the highs get more prominent, the low mids get effected etc.
> 
> Did you try multi hole, but using a ali thin foam? That should keep roughly the same treble and mids but bump the low end slightly.



the reason for it is because some of my buds (like the zen 2) is exactly great in mids and trebles without foams at all, but i need it just snug enough on the outer rim so it can transmit bass vibration. covering the front with even the thin foams will warm up the overall tone and ruin it for me. besides i don't wear earbuds with the front sticking to my ear canals, but rather let them sitting on the back and sticking to the earlobe.


----------



## rkw

tim0chan said:


> Thx for ignoring guys


More like nobody on the thread today knows an answer for you.


----------



## snip3r77

chinmie said:


> thanks! i want to make donut foams like those VE rubber rings: only cover the outer rim of the shell, but leaving the front side and the vent side completely open. i reckon it will do wonders on my zen 2, red demun, and datura. i also curious about that wrap you use on those badminton grip, will it be useful for modding or is it too thick for it?



Is there such thing as pre-cut donut foams?


----------



## golov17

Rose Mojito in stock now
http://s.aliexpress.com/NfEfMZ7j


----------



## chinmie

snip3r77 said:


> Is there such thing as pre-cut donut foams?



of course


----------



## chaiyuta

ClieOS said:


> On a unrelated news - words are Simphonio is developing the SWD3 and a super expensive (>$1400) model called VP1. The latter will have the new type of ceramic diaphragm that is more commonly found on higher end loudspeaker as well as their new IEM, the VR1.
> 
> ....so save up?



Thanks for news update. Look forward to see their appearance.



ClieOS said:


> This one is said to be Poseidon's upgrade, but hopefully not quite as expensive.
> 
> Also, the housing is made with titanium so it is said to be almost as light as plastic and stay in the ear easier.



Is it 200 yuan full price? or Does customer need to pay additional top up when MSRP is revealed? Is it possible to purchase as a 4.4 mm plug?


----------



## cathee

golov17 said:


> Rose Mojito in stock now
> http://s.aliexpress.com/NfEfMZ7j



Any idea how their QC and customer service have/have not improved over the years? I was really impressed with a number of Rose products a while ago but unfortunately too many of them did not last a year with limited use...


----------



## golov17

cathee said:


> Any idea how their QC and customer service have/have not improved over the years? I was really impressed with a number of Rose products a while ago but unfortunately too many of them did not last a year with limited use...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## rkw (Sep 11, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> Is there such thing as pre-cut donut foams?


Search "earbud donut foam" on Google or eBay for places that sell them.


----------



## ClieOS

chaiyuta said:


> Thanks for news update. Look forward to see their appearance.
> 
> Is it 200 yuan full price? or Does customer need to pay additional top up when MSRP is revealed? Is it possible to purchase as a 4.4 mm plug?



Of course not. That's just the pre-order price and you will have to pay in full when it is ready to ship. The final price however has not been revealed yet. K's does take custom order for plug, you just need to ask them before placing order.


----------



## ClieOS

Guess what just arrived?

I gave it a brief listening and put it to burn-in now. Sufficed to say it is very similar to EBX's tuning and at least >85% of its SQ. Build quality is pretty good as well - metal housing but it is quite light. This is another keeper.


----------



## subwoof3r (Sep 11, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> it is very similar to EBX's tuning and at least >85% of its SQ.


85% for 1/4 of EBX price ? damn, looks quite interesting Q/P ratio! 

btw, are they maybe a Datura-X killer ?


----------



## subwoof3r

Astonish said:


> Can anyone recommend me a good earbud available on amazon prime that’s under $75? Just want something for sleep listening and portable use.
> 
> My favorite sound signature is forward mids/mid centric. I listen to a lot of edm and vocals so it should have decent bass. Rolled off treble is fine, 650s are my favorite headphones so treble doesn’t have to sparkle and extend just want good mids and decent bass.
> 
> Thanks


Willsound PK32


----------



## ClieOS (Sep 11, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> 85% for 1/4 of EBX price ? damn, looks quite interesting Q/P ratio!
> 
> btw, are they maybe a Datura-X killer ?



Have the Datura X as well, I'll say EB2 impressed me more on the first listen.

According to NiceHCK, this particular model is priced for higher sale volume rather than higher individual margin, hence the good value.


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> What about these... certainly compact enough for sleeping.  I have a pair and they are nice.  I probably would not sleep with a bud but I know that some do.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Edifier-H185...8&qid=1536626194&sr=8-1&keywords=edifier+h185
> 
> ...





ClieOS said:


> Guess what just arrived?
> 
> I gave it a brief listening and put it to burn-in now. Sufficed to say it is very similar to EBX's tuning and at least >85% of its SQ. Build quality is pretty good as well - metal housing but it is quite light. This is another keeper.


I couldn't agree more!!! ...spent the day burning them in yesterday. I felt kind of underwhelmed initially (...I think they need EQ'ing to really shine imho!) - Suffice to say I'm extremely impressed with them now.....an absolute bargain!!!!!


----------



## activatorfly

subwoof3r said:


> 85% for 1/4 of EBX price ? damn, looks quite interesting Q/P ratio!
> 
> btw, are they maybe a Datura-X killer ?


Datura-X - glad I managed to avoid them - I'm a big fan of Faaeal (snow lotus / narcissus 2.0) - however EB2 is in another league imo!!!


----------



## activatorfly

ClieOS said:


> Have the Datura X as well, I'll say EB2 impressed me more on the first listen.
> 
> According to NiceHCK, this particular model is priced for higher sale volume rather than higher individual margin, hence the good value.


I'm not surprised tbh.....NiceHCK have excelled with this release!


----------



## snip3r77

I just cop an MK1


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> What about these... certainly compact enough for sleeping.  I have a pair and they are nice.  I probably would not sleep with a bud but I know that some do.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Edifier-H185...8&qid=1536626194&sr=8-1&keywords=edifier+h185
> 
> ...


Regarding comfort I think you'll be amazed with the EB2....definitely the new "go to" (sleep wearing them lol!) - i.e. very compact indeed - the shells hardly protrude at all! And considering they have metal housings, they're incredibly light!! - an all round winner in my opinion...enjoy!!!


----------



## DAndrew

mochill said:


> The more the merrier



But a less happy wallet. I was hoping to sell some of the buds I have but no luck, I guess the resell market is pretty weak for eabuds


----------



## McCol

DAndrew said:


> But a less happy wallet. I was hoping to sell some of the buds I have but no luck, I guess the resell market is pretty weak for eabuds



You still selling the same models we discussed a while back?  I might be interested in those or others you might be selling, send me a wee pm if you like.


----------



## DAndrew

McCol said:


> You still selling the same models we discussed a while back?  I might be interested in those or others you might be selling, send me a wee pm if you like.



Yeah, the same. Pm sent


----------



## Hixbot

Wow what a thread!

my yuins and tingos are broke, i'm a bit rough on these.

any suggestions for a rugged earbud?   with good build quality and cable.  low impedance for smartphone/tablet.  under $30 preferably


----------



## chinmie

DAndrew said:


> But a less happy wallet. I was hoping to sell some of the buds I have but no luck, I guess the resell market is pretty weak for eabuds



I'm rather lucky living in earbud loving country. although the TOTL ones still gonna take a dive in resale value, especially if it's not hyped enough


----------



## j4100

Hixbot said:


> Wow what a thread!
> 
> my yuins and tingos are broke, i'm a bit rough on these.
> 
> any suggestions for a rugged earbud?   with good build quality and cable.  low impedance for smartphone/tablet.  under $30 preferably



The DSQM Z&W Panda PK2s available on Aliexpress fit the bill for me. They have survived a few months of falling asleep with them in. So at least reasonably rugged. Should fall into your price bracket too.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 11, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> Have the Datura X as well, I'll say EB2 impressed me more on the first listen.
> 
> According to NiceHCK, this particular model is priced for higher sale volume rather than higher individual margin, hence the good value.



Mine arrived a bit earlier... still admiring them and getting ready to take a couple of photos (which I will not share until others have received theirs.)  Beautiful little things.  I wonder if everyone is getting the same color.  I am going to plug them into one of my daps so I can listen and burn in and listen and burn in some more  When the dap gets low on battery power I will  just plug it into the charger and continue to listen and burn in

I had just been thinking, before I saw your post, that this is one Jim wants everyone to be able to have.  As far as the EBX goes I have never been tempted to try the ones that my husband owns... something about them does not look comfortable to me.  Very pleased with the form factor of these.



activatorfly said:


> I couldn't agree more!!! ...spent the day burning them in yesterday. I felt kind of underwhelmed initially (...I think they need EQ'ing to really shine imho!) - Suffice to say I'm extremely impressed with them now.....an absolute bargain!!!!!



What are your sources?  I do not EQ but I  have a few daps to choose from plus my desktop system so I am not too worried. I am not usually underwhelmed.. we will see



activatorfly said:


> Datura-X - glad I managed to avoid them - I'm a big fan of Faaeal (snow lotus / narcissus 2.0) - however EB2 is in another league imo!!!



I have a Datura-x coming but I have heard my husband's pair so I know what to expect.  They are nothing like my Faaeal Rosemary (150 ohm).



activatorfly said:


> Regarding comfort I think you'll be amazed with the EB2....definitely the new "go to" (sleep wearing them lol!) - i.e. very compact indeed - the shells hardly protrude at all! And considering they have metal housings, they're incredibly light!! - an all round winner in my opinion...enjoy!!!



So far I have never slept with a bud and only occasionally with an iem and only then when my husband is not home (night shifts).  Instead of sleeping with buds or iems in that case I often accidentally stay up all night listening... so I am also in night shift mode  The shell is beautiful.  One of my favorite shapes.  Love that the cable is NOT stiff.

BTW, when I got up this noon after listening all night, I avoided this thread because my husband called and warned me that people were already talking about it... and mine was still out for delivery.  It was kind of like I was waiting for Santa Claus and did not want to spoil the surprise.


----------



## mbwilson111

For those who have the Fukubukuro.  Foams or no foams?


----------



## AxelCloris

Let's please keep the discussion within the Posting Guidelines. Thanks everyone.


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> For those who have the Fukubukuro.  Foams or no foams?


Currently using the supplied foams - donut & full combination.....great seal!


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> Mine arrived a bit earlier... still admiring them and getting ready to take a couple of photos (which I will not share until others have received theirs.)  Beautiful little things.  I wonder if everyone is getting the same color.  I am going to plug them into one of my daps so I can listen and burn in and listen and burn in some more  When the dap gets low on battery power I will  just plug it into the charger and continue to listen and burn in
> 
> I had just been thinking, before I saw your post, that this is one Jim wants everyone to be able to have.  As far as the EBX goes I have never been tempted to try the ones that my husband owns... something about them does not look comfortable to me.  Very pleased with the form factor of these.
> 
> ...


Yeah I was trying not to say too much - for fear of "spoiler alert" haha ...Sources are: Sony NW-ZX300 / Cayin N3 / Zishan Z2 / Walnut F1 (-balanced & SE outputs.)

I love Faaeal too.....what are the Rosemary (150 ohm) like compared to Snow Lotus 2 / Narcissus 2 & EB2 ?? (- I'll post pics of mine - when yours are up ok? lol)
.....I got the black version hbu? (maybe there's a 50/50 ratio with silver??) Imho...they are the ideal form factor -  almost feel like you have nothing in your ear!

I've only started to apply EQ recently to DAP's (-Sony NW-ZX300 really excels) & I also use Foobar2000 on my desktop (+ added EQ.) 
Plus I compose tracks with Ableton 10 & Bitwig Studio - so additional frequency response tweaking can be adjusted to instrument layering/imaging etc via DAW's.

The image resolution & weight of instrumentation presented by EB2, works well for: female vocals / jazz / soundscapes / binaural / electronica etc...they handle ALL genres!!


----------



## j4100

Wah. My EB2 is still in the post. I'll be watching for the postman tomorrow.


----------



## seanc6441

j4100 said:


> Wah. My EB2 is still in the post. I'll be watching for the postman tomorrow.


Same here bro

Judging from the box pic I will love the build, looks somewhere in between Liebesleid and Ling shell type, seems it'll be excellent value for money!


----------



## mbwilson111

Using mine with my Cayin N3 today. I do not EQ... how could I with so many sources and so many iems/buds/ headphones.  I would need a notebook as thick as an old phonebook to keep track of it all the settings for each.  I do prefer the super slow filter mode on the N3.  My bud is black.  My N3 is red


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> Wah. My EB2 is still in the post. I'll be watching for the postman tomorrow.





seanc6441 said:


> Same here bro
> 
> Judging from the box pic I will love the build, looks somewhere in between Liebesleid and Ling shell type, seems it'll be excellent value for money!



I am 26 miles east of London so it got to my local post office quickly.  Longer to you guys in Scotland and Ireland.  But you have the better scenery


----------



## waynes world

The EB2's look awesome, and seem like they are going to sound quite nice as well. Congrats to all of you Fukubukuros!


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> Same here bro
> 
> Judging from the box pic I will love the build, looks somewhere in between Liebesleid and Ling shell type, seems it'll be excellent value for money!


- The hype train is true! - they are totally divine - very intimate & euphoric vocals etc - I feel justified in resisting the temptation of buying Liebesleid or Ling - which seemed like a natural progression after Masya & Moondrop VX-Pro - the latter however proved too heavy, thus got sidelined - & put me off buying metal buds (- hence EBX apprehension!)
EB2 however are in the Premier League of comfort!..you're gonna totally dig them! lol


----------



## activatorfly

waynes world said:


> The EB2's look awesome, and seem like they are going to sound quite nice as well. Congrats to all of you Fukubukuros!


They sound rad!...I'll be a serial Fukubukuro bro from now on! hahaha!


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> Using mine with my Cayin N3 today. I do not EQ... how could I with so many sources and so many iems/buds/ headphones.  I would need a notebook as thick as an old phonebook to keep track of it all the settings for each.  I do prefer the super slow filter mode on the N3.  My bud is black.  My N3 is red


My N3's black, buds black, ZX300 is silver...dang I need silver buds now...doh!


----------



## mbwilson111

activatorfly said:


> - The hype train is true! - they are totally divine - very intimate & euphoric vocals etc - I feel justified in resisting the temptation of buying Liebesleid or Ling - which seemed like a natural progression after Masya & Moondrop VX-Pro - the latter however proved too heavy, thus got sidelined - & put me off buying metal buds (- hence EBX apprehension!)
> EB2 however are in the Premier League of comfort!..you're gonna totally dig them! lol



Careful... if expectations are pumped too high there will always be people who are disappointed.  There always are...with everything


----------



## mbwilson111

activatorfly said:


> My N3's black, buds black, ZX300 is silver...dang I need silver buds now...doh!




and red ones too... and maybe some blue.


----------



## Graphicism

- Could somebody bring me up to speed without having to read this entire thread!

I'm on my third pair of Yuin PK3s, both thanks to my cat Satellite, and the fact they sound amazing, drive easy, and I can sleep with them in.
Well, I'd like to try something new after seeing the Simphonio Dragon 2+ Earbuds at Massdrop.

Given my preference above is there anything out there I can buy today and not have to wait more than a week for delivery?


----------



## mbwilson111

Graphicism said:


> - Could somebody bring me up to speed without having to read this entire thread!
> 
> I'm on my third pair of Yuin PK3s, both thanks to my cat Satellite, and the fact they sound amazing, drive easy, and I can sleep with them in.
> Well, I'd like to try something new after seeing the Simphonio Dragon 2+ Earbuds at Massdrop.
> ...



Where are you located?


----------



## Graphicism

mbwilson111 said:


> Where are you located?



The sunshine state!


----------



## seanc6441

activatorfly said:


> - The hype train is true! - they are totally divine - very intimate & euphoric vocals etc - I feel justified in resisting the temptation of buying Liebesleid or Ling - which seemed like a natural progression after Masya & Moondrop VX-Pro - the latter however proved too heavy, thus got sidelined - & put me off buying metal buds (- hence EBX apprehension!)
> EB2 however are in the Premier League of comfort!..you're gonna totally dig them! lol


It's all about the cable! You can have a metal shell if the cable is light enough, because the weight will be balanced in the ear n9t pulling down from the cable, i hate heavy cables but my Ling is one of my most comfortable buds and definitely feels the best in my ear as it's weighty enough to sit snuggly in ear but never fatiging or pulling down like the BS1 for instance.

Nonetheless I'll enjoy the EB2 since I dont own the EBX. Excited to hear it now!


----------



## mbwilson111

Graphicism said:


> The sunshine state!



So something from Amazon... what about one of the Edifiers?

https://www.amazon.com/Edifier-H185...8&qid=1536682071&sr=1-1&keywords=edifier+h185


----------



## seanc6441

Graphicism said:


> The sunshine state!


Less than a week limits you to amazon in which you can buy the emx500 (great bud but the cable on the amazon sellers version is a bit stiff) to tide you over.

I suggest you also look to buy something on aliexpress and while it'll take awhile you can enjoy better quality buds and use the emx500 until then?


----------



## dheepak10

Just when I was wondering if there can be an earbud that matches up to the Bunting, Moon delivers the Nightingale!

The only thing that I wished for in my review of the Moonbuds Bunting was a bit more warmth - the Nightingale offers that and everything else that the Bunting did.

Absolute TOTL performance!


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> Less than a week limits you to amazon in which you can buy the emx500 (great bud but the cable on the amazon sellers version is a bit stiff) to tide you over.
> 
> I suggest you also look to buy something on aliexpress and while it'll take awhile you can enjoy better quality buds and use the emx500 until then?



Can people actually sleep with a bud with the emx500 shell?  Mine would be on the pillow in no time... or around my neck


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Can people actually sleep with a bud with the emx500 shell?  Mine would be on the pillow in no time... or around my neck


Whoops he did say for sleeping didn't he. Yeah go with the edifier then it's a more snug fit.

@Graphicism


----------



## cathee

Graphicism said:


> The sunshine state!





mbwilson111 said:


> So something from Amazon... what about one of the Edifiers?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Edifier-H185...8&qid=1536682071&sr=1-1&keywords=edifier+h185



Alternatively you can get something from the FS forum too obviously but there are some great options on Amazon now. I just picked up a pair of Snow Lotus 2.0, Datura X, and Linsoul BLD; admittedly they look over a week to deliver but it was during Labor Day Weekend.


----------



## seanc6441

cathee said:


> Alternatively you can get something from the FS forum too obviously but there are some great options on Amazon now. I just picked up a pair of Snow Lotus 2.0, Datura X, and Linsoul BLD; admittedly they look over a week to deliver but it was during Labor Day Weekend.


I like that idea, some great choices pop up there and usually from the US so you can buy at good value.


----------



## Graphicism (Sep 11, 2018)

Cheers guys! I checked out a couple that were suggested;
- the Edifier is priced low, is it that good?
- emx500 on Amazon is through a Singapore seller.
- Snow Lotus 2.0 and Datura X are again cheap options, I'd be willing to spend up to $200.
- Linsoul BLD says high impedance and I will typically be using these directly with my cellphone or Kujira (cheap lossless portable player).

I should also mentioned that I picked up some VE Monk earbuds a few months back and they are just not in the same league as the Yuin PK3.

Edit. Yes thanks I'll the FS forums but I'll be honest... kinda grosses me out a bit.

*Is this a new phenomenon or something? Are earbuds a new thing? Why haven't they made it state-side yet?*


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> It's all about the cable! You can have a metal shell if the cable is light enough, because the weight will be balanced in the ear n9t pulling down from the cable, i hate heavy cables but my Ling is one of my most comfortable buds and definitely feels the best in my ear as it's weighty enough to sit snuggly in ear but never fatiging or pulling down like the BS1 for instance.
> 
> Nonetheless I'll enjoy the EB2 since I dont own the EBX. Excited to hear it now!


I agree - I guess the tension of the cable is key to wearing them with no adjustments.....it will be interesting to hear your take on EB2 compared to Ling for comfort!
....BS1 were another "almost" buy - would have loved to have heard jazz etc on them - but the heavy/fatiguing cable seemed like a deal-breaker!


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> and red ones too... and maybe some blue.


Some Ling borrowed, something blue, some buds balanced.....some SE! lol


----------



## boblauer

snip3r77 said:


> How is the Monk Lite 120ohm? Plus $14 from the normal Monk Lite I feel it's abit too much


I actually like it a lot, the smaller shell works better for me, usually prefer Yuin style. I am running it with the Odyssey as well. For $35 shipped both items hard to go wrong.


----------



## waynes world (Sep 11, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Can people actually sleep with a bud with the emx500 shell?  Mine would be on the pillow in no time... or around my neck



I'm not exactly sure why, but for me the emx500 shells are uncomfortable to sleep with, whereas I can (and do) sleep with the graphenes. I think they shell sizes are comparable, but the graphene stems are a bit thinner, which might be what makes the difference for me.

Btw, thank goodness my better half is trained to accept buds stuffed into my ears when I go to sleep, because I don't think I could sleep very well without them. When nothing is playing, they block out a bit of sound which I find helpful. But when higher volume sound wakes me up and really annoys me (damned cat for example, or better half getting up early to go to work), I just press the power button on my X3 and a few seconds later the trance goodness is soothing me to sleep again 

Edit: I'll have to try the monk lites for sleeping with - they might have the perfect size shell/stems.


----------



## mbwilson111

activatorfly said:


> but the heavy/fatiguing cable seemed like a deal-breaker!



That was the one thing that kept me from appreciating the Snow Lotus 2.0 enough.


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> Careful... if expectations are pumped too high there will always be people who are disappointed.  There always are...with everything


True - I was kinda cautious & tight lipped yesterday though....to be fair! lol - maybe being initially underwhelmed was a good sign...akin to not really digging a vinyl LP on first listen...which later transforms into a future classic with repeated plays!


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> I'm not exactly sure why, but for me the emx500 shells are uncomfortable to sleep with, whereas I can (and do) sleep with the graphenes. I think they shell sizes are comparable, but the graphene stems are a bit thinner, which might be what makes the difference for me.
> 
> Btw, thank goodness my better half is trained to accept buds stuffed into my ears when I go to sleep, because I don't think I could sleep very well without them. When nothing is playing, they block out a bit of sound which I find helpful. But when higher volume sound wakes me up and really annoys me (damned cat for example, or better half getting up early to go to work), I just press the power button on my X3 and a few seconds later the trance goodness is soothing me to sleep again
> 
> Edit: I'll have to try the monk lites for sleeping with - they might have the perfect size shell/stems.



I use soft foam earplugs for that but I try not to use them if I have had iems in my ears all evening already.

I highly recommend these.  I am an expert on sleeping with earplugs.  I had to in high school because of dogs howling at the moon.  Had to in college because of roommates and dorm noises.  By then I was addicted to them and I lived on a main road for many years in Michigan.
None of the earplugs I had back then were as good and neither are the ones my husband can get at work.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Moldex-780...8-1&keywords=Moldex+7800+Spark+Plugs+Earplugs


----------



## activatorfly (Sep 11, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> That was the one thing that kept me from appreciating the Snow Lotus 2.0 enough.


- Just realised I meant the Snow Lotus 1.0 White (- awesome @ £7.61) - chose them for the cool transparent shells & light cable!


----------



## Marcos Fontana

golov17 said:


> Rose Mojito in stock now
> http://s.aliexpress.com/NfEfMZ7j


Thank you!


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> I use soft foam earplugs for that but I try not to use them if I have had iems in my ears all evening already.
> 
> I highly recommend these.  I am an expert on sleeping with earplugs.  I had to in high school because of dogs howling at the moon.  Had to in college because of roommates and dorm noises.  By then I was addicted to them and I lived on a main road for many years in Michigan.
> None of the earplugs I had back then were as good and neither are the ones my husband can get at work.
> ...



But, where's the cable? Where's the trance? Just kidding - thanks for the tip. I might snag some. 

Btw, before discovering "sleeping with buds", I used to use foam earplugs. I found though that I was getting ear infections often, and I think that it was maybe due to lack of air flow. Once I discovered iems, I then tried sleeping them, but I had the same problem. With earbuds though, my ears stay happy.


----------



## mbwilson111

activatorfly said:


> - Just realised I meant the Snow Lotus 1.0 White (- awesome @ £7.61) - chose them for the cool transparent shells & light cable!



Looks like a nice cable.  The shell is like my Faaeal Rosemary but my cable, while black, is not braided like yours.


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> But, where's the cable? Where's the trance? Just kidding - thanks for the tip. I might snag some.
> 
> Btw, before discovering "sleeping with buds", I used to use foam earplugs. I found though that I was getting ear infections often, and I think that it was maybe due to lack of air flow. Once I discovered iems, I then tried sleeping them, but I had the same problem. With earbuds though, my ears stay happy.




Just make sure it is that exact model of ear plug if you can get them.  And throw them away every few days.  Some people would say everyday but who does that.  I know of people using ear plugs to make iem tips


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Hello folks!

Anybody knows how much I need to spend to get a new Blox TM9?


----------



## activatorfly

Marcos Fontana said:


> Hello folks!
> 
> Anybody knows how much I need to spend to get a new Blox TM9?


$280


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> Looks like a nice cable.  The shell is like my Faaeal Rosemary but my cable, while black, is not braided like yours.


Reviews seem to suggest they have a dark sound signature? - might order some for their quantity of bass & sub-bass! - plus it seems like £15 is the sweet spot! haha


----------



## Zerohour88

NiceHCK EB2 up on the taobao page, though I really want the EBX instead. Is the fit for EBX that finicky or is it 50/50? I might get the little brother just because of the seemingly better fit

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...Kbm6S&id=577374067558&ns=1&abbucket=16#detail


----------



## seanc6441

Graphicism said:


> Cheers guys! I checked out a couple that were suggested;
> - the Edifier is priced low, is it that good?
> - emx500 on Amazon is through a Singapore seller.
> - Snow Lotus 2.0 and Datura X are again cheap options, I'd be willing to spend up to $200.
> ...


They are just more popular in Asia it seems, but they are becoming more popular recently, regardless of location.

Look, the simphonio d2+ on massdrop for $200 (rrp $310) is a high end earbud. I'm not gonna just say get it, but it's going to be easy to resell at that price if you ever needed too.

But its too high quality to use as a beater bud, a sleeping bud etc. And consisering what your cat did to the pk3... I'd be very cautious of spending over$50 in your situation lol...

I wouldn't be too grossed out, they dont insert into the ear canal like iems so its not like they will be getting waxy lol

Also most people use foams from day one so they aren't actually touching the shell off their ear. Plus a simple clean with an antibactieral wipe would do the job.

Be sure to look at pictures in the FS section to see what the condition is, some people sell buds in like new condition for fair prices. Worth a shot!


----------



## seanc6441

activatorfly said:


> I agree - I guess the tension of the cable is key to wearing them with no adjustments.....it will be interesting to hear your take on EB2 compared to Ling for comfort!
> ....BS1 were another "almost" buy - would have loved to have heard jazz etc on them - but the heavy/fatiguing cable seemed like a deal-breaker!


BS1 has a phenomenal tuning until the sub bass, but if you weren't opposed to bumping the bass by like 2-4db wow what a threat that earbud is, I can only fault one little peak at 4khz (only because the v20/30 is bright) and other than that its wonderfully smooth and has more detail than almost all the $100 earbuds, infact its got more detail than the bk in some places.

Waiting to find a 15mm driver compatible shell to transplant the driver, make a lighter copper and silver plated cable for it and ill use it daily.


----------



## fairx

Looking at the picture, the cable on EB2 could be stiff like heck in a few months. What do you guys reckon?


----------



## seanc6441

fairx said:


> Looking at the picture, the cable on EB2 could be stiff like heck in a few months. What do you guys reckon?


Depends on how the material reacts to oil, hard to say without testing


----------



## mbwilson111

fairx said:


> Looking at the picture, the cable on EB2 could be stiff like heck in a few months. What do you guys reckon?



no, I do not think so at all


----------



## mbwilson111

Zerohour88 said:


> NiceHCK EB2 up on the taobao page, though I really want the EBX instead. Is the fit for EBX that finicky or is it 50/50? I might get the little brother just because of the seemingly better fit
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...Kbm6S&id=577374067558&ns=1&abbucket=16#detail



How much is it in US dollars on that site?


----------



## activatorfly

Zerohour88 said:


> NiceHCK EB2 up on the taobao page, though I really want the EBX instead. Is the fit for EBX that finicky or is it 50/50? I might get the little brother just because of the seemingly better fit
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...Kbm6S&id=577374067558&ns=1&abbucket=16#detail


Silver look uber cool! - they seem extremely cheap...maybe the Yen conversion to £ is wrong?


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> How much is it in US dollars on that site?


Wordsworth! lol ....was just thinking the same thing hehe! - seems to work out at £1.37 ! - thought £15 was a bargain tbh!


----------



## waynes world

activatorfly said:


> Silver look uber cool! - they seem extremely cheap...maybe the Yen conversion to £ is wrong?



Approx $30US, correct? If so, that's cheap, but not as cheap as when they were available as Fukabubbabro's!


----------



## activatorfly (Sep 11, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> no, I do not think so at all


Never in a month of Sundays!


----------



## activatorfly

waynes world said:


> Approx $30US, correct? If so, that's cheap, but not as cheap as when they were available as Fukabubbabro's!


- I probably used the wrong conversion then! lolz (not used taobao before.)


----------



## seanc6441

Showing $30 for me on taoboa. The silver looks great and the black looks almost as good especially with the cover being black. I'll be happy with either tbh. Loving the cable design too, slick smooth finish.


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> Showing $30 for me on taoboa. The silver looks great and the black looks almost as good especially with the cover being black. I'll be happy with either tbh. Loving the cable design too, slick smooth finish.



..and very soft and flexible.  Love the black that I got.  I wonder if both colors are being sent randomly.


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> ..and very soft and flexible.  Love the black that I got.  I wonder if both colors are being sent randomly.


Maybe I'll opt for Rosemary instead - whilst waiting for the silver 2.5mm balanced release of EB2.


----------



## Zerohour88

mbwilson111 said:


> How much is it in US dollars on that site?



yup, 30 bux-ish. If its really just a step-down to the EBX, still quite good value. Some might prefer spending the extra 10 bux after reviews are out rather than gamble on the 20 bux pre-order. I know I'm considering it.


----------



## mbwilson111

Zerohour88 said:


> yup, 30 bux-ish. If its really just a step-down to the EBX, still quite good value. Some might prefer spending the extra 10 bux after reviews are out rather than gamble on the 20 bux pre-order. I know I'm considering it.



I partly did it because I enjoyed the mystery and suspense


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> ..and very soft and flexible.  Love the black that I got.  I wonder if both colors are being sent randomly.





mbwilson111 said:


> I partly did it because I enjoyed the mystery and suspense


I did it because I was chatting to jim about a different product when he mentioned this mystery bud and I took about 5 seconds to consider it and once I saw the price I just clicked buy lol.

Was too cheap to pass up on.


----------



## Danneq

mbwilson111 said:


> I partly did it because I enjoyed the mystery and suspense



You should try the mystery and suspense of using PostNord in Sweden. Then you'll never know when or even IF you receive your items.

Still nothing on the Blox TM9. It arrived in Stockholm on the 31st of August. Now close to 2 weeks without a sign of life, but when I called PostNord about it I was advised to wait a bit longer. It can take another 2 weeks before it's even handled. I do not even dare to think about what happens if the package has been lost. PostNord worked okay until they started charging import fees and customs on all packages from outside the EU in March this year. After that it has become bloody awful. 

Looks like I'll have let earbuds be shipped to my mother in law in Japan and pick it up whenever we go there to visit...


----------



## HungryPanda

I do like lucky bags


----------



## mbwilson111

Danneq said:


> Looks like I'll have let earbuds be shipped to my mother in law in Japan and pick it up whenever we go there to visit...



That sounds like it would be less stressful.


----------



## Ziggomatic

activatorfly said:


> ....BS1 were another "almost" buy - would have loved to have heard jazz etc on them - but the heavy/fatiguing cable seemed like a deal-breaker!



Was listening to some Mingus on the BS1 earlier today and can confirm it's a very nice set for jazz. Just lovely. 

The cable is heavy but it's not unmanageable for me (I've walked the dog with them in without any issues, for instance).


----------



## subwoof3r

My daily drug...


----------



## cathee

subwoof3r said:


> My daily drug...


----------



## bhima

waynes world said:


> I'm not exactly sure why, but for me the emx500 shells are uncomfortable to sleep with, whereas I can (and do) sleep with the graphenes. I think they shell sizes are comparable, but the graphene stems are a bit thinner, which might be what makes the difference for me.
> 
> Btw, thank goodness my better half is trained to accept buds stuffed into my ears when I go to sleep, because I don't think I could sleep very well without them. When nothing is playing, they block out a bit of sound which I find helpful. But when higher volume sound wakes me up and really annoys me (damned cat for example, or better half getting up early to go to work), I just press the power button on my X3 and a few seconds later the trance goodness is soothing me to sleep again
> 
> Edit: I'll have to try the monk lites for sleeping with - they might have the perfect size shell/stems.



I think the Graphenes are a slightly smaller shell than the MX500. I too can very comfortably wear the Graphenes, but I sure as heck cannot do that with my VE Monk+.

I'm also having problems getting a cozy fit with the Yincrow RW-777. They can sound fantastic if I continually put pressure on them in my ears, but the minute I take my fingers off of the housing, they start to sound thin like its not properly sealing correctly. I'm going to give donuts another try on these.


----------



## subwoof3r

cathee said:


>


Blox TM9


----------



## Blueshound24

If anyone has heard the full size Focal Elear, could you recommend an earbud that has a similar sound signature? I realize it's apples to oranges, but maybe something somewhat close.

Or something similar to the Denon D7000 which I find somewhat similar to the Elear. Those two are probably my favorites.


----------



## seanc6441

bhima said:


> I think the Graphenes are a slightly smaller shell than the MX500. I too can very comfortably wear the Graphenes, but I sure as heck cannot do that with my VE Monk+.
> 
> I'm also having problems getting a cozy fit with the Yincrow RW-777. They can sound fantastic if I continually put pressure on them in my ears, but the minute I take my fingers off of the housing, they start to sound thin like its not properly sealing correctly. I'm going to give donuts another try on these.


VE donuts ve donuts ve donuts lol

Much more sealing and bring out the low end.


----------



## seanc6441

Blueshound24 said:


> If anyone has heard the full size Focal Elear, could you recommend an earbud that has a similar sound signature? I realize it's apples to oranges, but maybe something somewhat close.
> 
> Or something similar to the Denon D7000 which I find somewhat similar to the Elear. Those two are probably my favorites.


You're gonna have to give a budget here, do you want something high end or what?


----------



## Blueshound24

seanc6441 said:


> You're gonna have to give a budget here, do you want something high end or what?




I'd look at all options from mid-fi to high end.


----------



## Graphicism

seanc6441 said:


> They are just more popular in Asia it seems, but they are becoming more popular recently, regardless of location.
> 
> Look, the simphonio d2+ on massdrop for $200 (rrp $310) is a high end earbud. I'm not gonna just say get it, but it's going to be easy to resell at that price if you ever needed too.
> 
> ...




Yeah that's not a bad idea. While I wait on one of the Ali-express buds I'll give those Edifiers a try... H185 over H190?


----------



## chinmie

subwoof3r said:


> My daily drug...



i have a friend who constantly nag me to get the TM9. yesterday he bought it and showed them off, but doesn't give impressions nor let me borrow it (really mischievous) ...this thread isn't helping either


----------



## CyberGhost

So what are the earbuds that are considered to be the best nowadays? Are MX 980/985 still relevant? I was reading about them and their sounds seems like something I would really like. I like sparkly, sharp treble and forward mids. Grado like sound.

I'm considering: PK1, OK1, VE Zen, Ve Asura


----------



## mbwilson111

Graphicism said:


> Yeah that's not a bad idea. While I wait on one of the Ali-express buds I'll give those Edifiers a try... H185 over H190?



I have both.  The form factors are very different.  If you wanted it for sleeping the H185 is a smaller fit. I personally find it a bit fiddly to fit though because there is not much to grab on to.  Others might not have the same problem.  I prefer the longer stem on the H190 because it gives me something to grab on to to wiggle it into place.  They both sound good but I prefer the sound of the H190.  To me it is a little more balanced across the frequencies.  I am sure someone will come along with a different opinion  It is impossible for me to know which you would prefer.  Just get them both  They look alot different and there are various colors. I do know that more people in here seem to have the H185.  I never see anyone talk about the H190.

Can anyone else help here?


----------



## wskl

Hixbot said:


> Wow what a thread!
> 
> my yuins and tingos are broke, i'm a bit rough on these.
> 
> any suggestions for a rugged earbud?   with good build quality and cable.  low impedance for smartphone/tablet.  under $30 preferably



If you don't mind a neutral to bright signature, then I would suggest the **** PT15.  Metal shell, built like a tank and has detachable MMCX cables, well within your budget.


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> i have a friend who constantly nag me to get the TM9. yesterday he bought it and showed them off, but doesn't give impressions nor let me borrow it (really mischievous) ...this thread isn't helping either



Why is he being so mean to you?  That is horrible... lol.


----------



## seanc6441

CyberGhost said:


> So what are the earbuds that are considered to be the best nowadays? Are MX 980/985 still relevant? I was reading about them and their sounds seems like something I would really like. I like sparkly, sharp treble and forward mids. Grado like sound.
> 
> I'm considering: PK1, OK1, VE Zen, Ve Asura


Rose Masya maybe for brighter forward mids, slightly warm tight bass, and sparkly treble.


----------



## seanc6441

Ziggomatic said:


> Was listening to some Mingus on the BS1 earlier today and can confirm it's a very nice set for jazz. Just lovely.
> 
> The cable is heavy but it's not unmanageable for me (I've walked the dog with them in without any issues, for instance).


For me combined with the slightly odd fit of the shell its too much, but I agree Jazz sounds so good on them, lots of music does others than EDM (even that sounds good enough if you bass boost like im doing).


----------



## chinmie

CyberGhost said:


> So what are the earbuds that are considered to be the best nowadays? Are MX 980/985 still relevant? I was reading about them and their sounds seems like something I would really like. I like sparkly, sharp treble and forward mids. Grado like sound.
> 
> I'm considering: PK1, OK1, VE Zen, Ve Asura



Liebesleid is the current best on that kind of sound. the cheaper version that is also my favorite is the Edifier H185.in the mid price there's Toneking Tomahawk (although the sound is too upfront that it hurts my ears, but some like them) 



mbwilson111 said:


> Why is he being so mean to you?  That is horrible... lol.



sometimes closer friends are the ones that's a bit meaner than others


----------



## wazzupi

Zerohour88 said:


> NiceHCK EB2 up on the taobao page, though I really want the EBX instead. Is the fit for EBX that finicky or is it 50/50? I might get the little brother just because of the seemingly better fit
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...Kbm6S&id=577374067558&ns=1&abbucket=16#detail


I can't get them to call me or receive a text message so i can buy this >_< so frustrated !!


----------



## Zerohour88

wazzupi said:


> I can't get them to call me or receive a text message so i can buy this >_< so frustrated !!



you can try using a taobao agent to purchase, but maybe it'd be better to wait for stocks on ali (niceHCK primarily does business there, that taobao store is usually for his exclusive products only)


----------



## ClieOS

Seems to be the session for new earbuds as words are **** PT25 will be released very soon.


----------



## DAndrew

Blueshound24 said:


> If anyone has heard the full size Focal Elear, could you recommend an earbud that has a similar sound signature? I realize it's apples to oranges, but maybe something somewhat close.
> 
> Or something similar to the Denon D7000 which I find somewhat similar to the Elear. Those two are probably my favorites.



You could order a CAX Red Dragon and ask for it to be custom tuned to resemble the Elear, it will set you pack a minimum of 700$~. That is the closest you will get if price is no object. If you want the cheapest then I would not go lower than the TO400s. I do not own the Elear but I have auditioned them for a day and yeah, that is what I am looking to buy in an earbud. They just sound...right. So i will say what the TO400s has in common with it since I own it: clarity, looks, dynamics, punchy, lively, realism, accuracy. Now do not imagine it will be the same as the Elear in those categories but I think its the _cheapest _sq you should go for that has an ounce of resemblance to the Elear. Also there something earbuds will never match the Elear in, bass. 

So if money is no object I would say the Red Dragon since it is the only TOTL bud that you custom order depending on your taste. ( that I know of )


----------



## Danneq

CyberGhost said:


> So what are the earbuds that are considered to be the best nowadays? Are MX 980/985 still relevant? I was reading about them and their sounds seems like something I would really like. I like sparkly, sharp treble and forward mids. Grado like sound.
> 
> I'm considering: PK1, OK1, VE Zen, Ve Asura



Well, if you live in the US or Canada and hurry up (about 55 minutes left), you can buy Simphonio Dragon 2+ for $199.99 from Massdrop. They usually sell for $319 and are supposed to have that sort of sound signature.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/70341


----------



## snip3r77

ClieOS said:


> Seems to be the session for new earbuds as words are **** PT25 will be released very soon.



I hope it doesn't use MMCX


----------



## snip3r77

Yesterday I copped Willsound MK1
Today I did a Qian69. AmIdoinItRite?


----------



## kurtextrem

Why is the TM9 a mx shell  The Monk, some TY Hi-Z bud and others just don't really stay tightly in my ears with foams, so I assume the TM9 also doesn't....


----------



## ClieOS

snip3r77 said:


> I hope it doesn't use MMCX



Unfortunately for you, it does.


----------



## snip3r77

ClieOS said:


> Unfortunately for you, it does.



Is it an enhancement from PT15? Meaning it will superseed PT15 and pricing wise it will be thereabouts of PT15?


----------



## rkw

DAndrew said:


> So if money is no object I would say the Red Dragon since it is the only TOTL bud that you custom order depending on your taste. ( that I know of )


Blur


----------



## DAndrew

rkw said:


> Blur



While I do love the Blur, it lacks bass to compare itself with the Elear


----------



## j4100

Look what turned up in the company mail.


----------



## ClieOS

ClieOS said:


> Seems to be the _*session for new earbuds*_ as words are **** PT25 will be released very soon.



...and Audio-Technica just announced ATH-CM2000Ti, priced > USD$480. Now that makes TM9 feels positively cheap.



snip3r77 said:


> Is it an enhancement from PT15? Meaning it will superseed PT15 and pricing wise it will be thereabouts of PT15?



Still a few days before release, no official price has been announced yet. But it will most certainly be more expensive than PT15.


----------



## 40760 (Sep 12, 2018)

Release on October 19, 2018
*Inner ear headphones
ATH-CM 2000Ti*
Premium sound of excellence, the clear sound world spreads.










A new development φ 15.4 mm HD driver that wraps a magnetic circuit adopting permendur and a diamond like carbon (DLC) coating diaphragm.
Precision cutting Full titanium body, eliminating unnecessary resonance thoroughly.
An inner ear type that realizes a wide sound field with a feeling of opening.
Adopt high-quality A2DC connector for audio.
Reduce crosstalk with Starcad stranded cable / cord with ground separated by L / R.
Both outgoing 1.2 m balance cable (φ4.4 mm 5 pole plug) and 1.2 m cord (φ 3.5 mm stereo mini plug) are included to enhance the separation feeling of left and right sounds.
A2DC: Audio Designed Detachable Coaxial
* Our company recommends this logo on products conforming to the high resolution definition of the Japan Audio Association. The logo is a registered trademark.










Model: Dynamic type
Driver: φ 15.4 mm
Output sound pressure level: 102 dB / mW
Playback frequency band: 10 to 45,000 Hz
Maximum input: 100 mW
Impedance: 16 Ω
Mass (excluding cord): Approximately 11 g
Input terminal: A2DC connector jack

●  Accessories: code (removable): 1.2m (φ3.5mm gold-plated stereo mini plug / L type)
balance cable (removable): 1.2m (φ4.4mm gold-plated balance 5-pole / L type)
ear pads, case, cleaning Cross
●  Optional: Replacement earpad ER-EC7, replacement code HDMI
cable for headphone HDC 213 A / 1.2, HDC 214 A / 1.2, HDC 212 A / 1.2


----------



## RobinFood

ClieOS said:


> ...and Audio-Technica just announced ATH-CM2000Ti, priced > USD$480. Now that makes TM9 feels positively cheap.
> 
> 
> 
> Still a few days before release, no official price has been announced yet. But it will most certainly be more expensive than PT15.



That made me really excited! I can't wait to go to e-earphones to give the CM200Ti a try! The shell does look a little big though, it has a 15.4mm driver (which I guess is standard size but...)


----------



## 40760

RobinFood said:


> That made me really excited! I can't wait to go to e-earphones to give the CM200Ti a try! The shell does look a little big though, it has a 15.4mm driver (which I guess is standard size but...)


I feel excited for you too! Really looking forward to your first impression for these...


----------



## teston

palestofwhite said:


> ATH-CM2000Ti @ 53,870JPY...
> 
> *2018/10/19*
> 
> ...


Well, the A2DC connector will limit the availability of cable rolling with our existing cable. They are coming with 2.5mm and 4.4mm balanced cable though.
The CM700 isn't really my type of sound. I hope that they bring those magic mids of their headphones to this little buds.


----------



## Danneq (Sep 12, 2018)

Cool to see ATH back in the high end earbud game! Didn't CM7TI use to cost a lot when it was still sold? It must have been close to the price of CM2000TI.

Both CM7 and CM700 are great but I find newer earbuds, mainly from smaller makers, to be far superior.


----------



## chaiyuta

RobinFood said:


> That made me really excited! I can't wait to go to e-earphones to give the CM200Ti a try! The shell does look a little big though, it has a 15.4mm driver (which I guess is standard size but...)



You are the chosen one of my hero.


----------



## chinmie

Danneq said:


> Cool to see ATH back in the high end earbud game! Didn't CM7TI use to cost a lot when it was still sold? It must have been close to the price of CM2000TI.
> 
> Both CM7 and CM700 are great but I find newer earbuds, maonly from smaller makers, to be far superior.



i only ever tried the CM700.  didn't like it very much, it has an odd nasally mid tone and light bass. i hope the new one can compete with the current earbuds


----------



## snip3r77

Danneq said:


> Cool to see ATH back in the high end earbud game! Didn't CM7TI use to cost a lot when it was still sold? It must have been close to the price of CM2000TI.
> 
> Both CM7 and CM700 are great but I find newer earbuds, mainly from smaller makers, to be far superior.


Faster cop


----------



## ClieOS

Last time around when Audio Technica tried to add another member to the ATH-CM series that is the ATH-CM707, it was kind of a disappointment. I hope AT can do better this time around but I won't hold my breath over it.


----------



## 40760

ClieOS said:


> Last time around when Audio Technica tried to add another member to the ATH-CM series that is the ATH-CM707, it was kind of a disappointment. I hope AT can do better this time around but I won't hold my breath over it.



I myself don't really feel the price will be reflective of its performance, but one can only hope...


----------



## activatorfly

j4100 said:


> Look what turned up in the company mail.


Coolio!....if they're silver...fancy a swap?? haha


----------



## 40760

activatorfly said:


> Coolio!....if they're silver...fancy a swap?? haha



The silver one is so beautiful that I'm trying to purchase them off TB...


----------



## j4100

activatorfly said:


> Coolio!....if they're silver...fancy a swap?? haha



Nah. They're black. I like the colour band to identify left and right. Nice soft cable too.


----------



## activatorfly

j4100 said:


> Nah. They're black. I like the colour band to identify left and right. Nice soft cable too.


- I was only joking lol - I agree the colour banding is cool - more sensible to wait for silver 2.5mm balanced version imo!


----------



## activatorfly

palestofwhite said:


> The silver one is so beautiful that I'm trying to purchase them off TB...


Keep us posted....totally don't understand the TB site!


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> Nah. They're black. I like the colour band to identify left and right. Nice soft cable too.



I am very happy with the black.



activatorfly said:


> - I was only joking lol - I agree the colour banding is cool - more sensible to wait for silver 2.5mm balanced version imo!



Are you expecting that to be available for sure?


----------



## chinmie

activatorfly said:


> Coolio!....if they're silver...fancy a swap?? haha



i saw them on taobao, i think the black is cooler. that red and blue ring match the black one better and looked a bit off on the silver


----------



## j4100

Yeah. The black is ideal. I assumed there was more than one colour for some reason. Very happy with mine, though won't have a chance to give them a proper listen until the weekend.


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> I am very happy with the black.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you expecting that to be available for sure?


Yes balanced EB2 will be available - Jim reckons it should take a few months....there might be a 4.4mm jack version available too (but don't quote me about that!)
I emailed him about the cable upgrade - but it will only apparently be 4-core - in order to keep costs to a minimum!


----------



## activatorfly

j4100 said:


> Yeah. The black is ideal. I assumed there was more than one colour for some reason. Very happy with mine, though won't have a chance to give them a proper listen until the weekend.


D'accord! ....I'm sure you'll adore them!


----------



## 40760

activatorfly said:


> Keep us posted....totally don't understand the TB site!



Can't seem to work around some issues with TB... Guess I'll just have to wait for them to release on AE instead...


----------



## activatorfly

palestofwhite said:


> Can't seem to work around some issues with TB... Guess I'll just have to wait for them to release on AE instead...


Yeah it's a case of TB..or not TB - the latter I think! lol


----------



## 40760

activatorfly said:


> Yeah it's a case of TB..or not TB - the latter I think! lol



TB can be quite daunting to navigate and purchase from if you're not domestic... 

Could use a forwarder but then that'll be too costly, hence out of the question...


----------



## activatorfly

palestofwhite said:


> TB can be quite daunting to navigate and purchase from if you're not domestic...
> 
> Could use a forwarder but then that'll be too costly, hence out of the question...


Looking forward to balanced (....fortunately the SE version sounds great with additional EQ.)


----------



## seanc6441

activatorfly said:


> Looking forward to balanced (....fortunately the SE version sounds great with additional EQ.)


Where do you EQ that you find lacking?


----------



## rkw

DAndrew said:


> While I do love the Blur, it lacks bass to compare itself with the Elear


I mentioned Blur as another earbud (besides Red Dragon) where custom configuration and tuning is available. How did the bass of a $750 full size headphone come into the discussion?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 12, 2018)

activatorfly said:


> Looking forward to balanced (....fortunately the SE version sounds great with additional EQ.)



Sounds great to me with no EQ.



j4100 said:


> Yeah. The black is ideal. I assumed there was more than one colour for some reason. Very happy with mine, though won't have a chance to give them a proper listen until the weekend.



Before opening the box I noticed there were choices of black and silver..mine was ticked black.


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> Where do you EQ that you find lacking?


- not received yours yet then?...I probably over-compensate regarding EQ tbh (- as a direct result of listening to balanced output sources such as Sony ZX300.)
For the last two months....I've also been connecting SE outputs (such as a Mackie mixer) to Walnut F1 amp - in order to obtain an extra clarity boost via balanced out....

The frequency response curve I use for SE, is approximately a sine wave shape: from 30 > 500 Hz (i.e dipping at 500) - & mirrored from 500 > 16K Hz.
- I guess this results in boosted bass/sub-bass, midrange and high frequencies collectively....


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 12, 2018)

activatorfly said:


> - not received yours yet then?...I probably over-compensate regarding EQ tbh (- as a direct result of listening to balanced output sources such as Sony ZX300.)
> For the last two months....I've also been connecting SE outputs (such as a Mackie mixer) to Walnut F1 amp - in order to obtain an extra clarity boost via balanced out....
> 
> The frequency response curve I use for SE, is approximately a sine wave shape: from 30 > 500 Hz (i.e dipping at 500) - & mirrored from 500 > 16K Hz.
> - I guess this results in boosted bass/sub-bass, midrange and high frequencies collectively....


Ah nice, I tend to eq up the sub bass, vocal range, low-mid treble (around 6-10khz) and sometimes the very upper treble if needed. Of course it varies from earbud to earbud.

One almost constant area is the sub bass and low treble though, buds just sound so much more dynamic when you add to those areas.

I'm only sensitive to peaks between 1khz and 4khz it seems (act, any energy above 4khz sounds great and energetic to my ears. Any strong peaks below that sound sibilant or sharp.

And no I haven't yet, but I'm not in a particular rush to get them quickly so I'll be happy to receive them anytime soon-ish.


----------



## activatorfly (Sep 12, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Sounds great to me with no EQ.



Sounds much more involving & punchier with EQ imo!

Maybe the silver are being held back??...whilst the chosen 200 act as a perfect advertisement for the next batch in production - maybe 500 black/500 silver who knows?? haha!


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> Ah nice, I tend to eq up the sub bass, vocal range, low-mid treble (around 6-10khz) and sometimes the very upper treble if needed. Of course it varies from earbud to earbud.
> 
> One almost constant area is the sub bass and low treble though, buds just sound so much more dynamic when you add to those areas.
> 
> ...


It's also obvs source dependent - the fact that a high level of image retrieval can be achieved via a small form factor - without any hint of sibilance/fatigue deserves huge kudos!


----------



## DAndrew

rkw said:


> I mentioned Blur as another earbud (besides Red Dragon) where custom configuration and tuning is available. How did the bass of a $750 full size headphone come into the discussion?



It came into discussion because we were talking about an earbud that is comparable with the Elear, the Blur is, except the bass. And no. A Blur CANT be customized as a Red Dragon, which is build from scratch by what the customer wants. I have asked Wong personally and he said the only modifications are minimal tuning.....


----------



## ClieOS

**** PT25's price has been revealed - around $38 on Taobao.


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> **** PT25's price has been revealed - around $38 on Taobao.


Any link to see what it looks like?


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> Any link to see what it looks like?



http://m.tb.cn/h.35Cjhva?sm=63ebb7


----------



## waynes world

Wow, the PT25's are interesting looking buds.


----------



## BrunoC

waynes world said:


> Wow, the PT25's are interesting looking buds.



You bet!

They even blow some red smoke!


----------



## Danneq (Sep 12, 2018)

BrunoC said:


> You bet!
> 
> They even blow some red smoke!




I thought it was vaporized blood resulting from the famous **** treble...


----------



## rkw

Very interesting design, some inspiration from Apple EarPod.

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=577067944066


----------



## cathee

Got out of the hi-end earbud game only to have her pull me right back in. 

These are very intriguing for me. The airpod shape has always played very well with my ear shape, been waiting for a proper Chinese company (lol!) to tackle it. 

Renderings look amazing but I'll have to see some unit pictures and get a few reviews before I take the plunge.


----------



## theoutsider

BrunoC said:


> You bet!
> 
> They even blow some red smoke!


WOW, look at the photo chop.


----------



## cathee

theoutsider said:


> WOW, look at the photo chop.





Exactly why I'll need to see some actual unit pictures!


----------



## mbwilson111

cathee said:


> Got out of the hi-end earbud game only to have her pull me right back in.
> 
> These are very intriguing for me. The airpod shape has always played very well with my ear shape, been waiting for a proper Chinese company (lol!) to tackle it.
> 
> Renderings look amazing but I'll have to see some unit pictures and get a few reviews before I take the plunge.



There are very good reviews on the Memt T5 which I have had for a few months.  Very comfortable as well as sounding good.  Very nice pod. Metal body.  So, a proper Chinese company has tackled it... for the win!

The backs are even magnetic for tidy storage.


----------



## rkw

theoutsider said:


> WOW, look at the photo chop.


Fixed it.


----------



## mbwilson111

rkw said:


> Fixed it.



Perfect.  Now it matches her sweater!


----------



## theoutsider

cathee said:


> Exactly why I'll need to see some actual unit pictures!





rkw said:


> Fixed it.



maybe it is a postmodern advertisement... they show something suggestive and you have to complete the picture using your own imagination.


----------



## Blueshound24

DAndrew said:


> You could order a CAX Red Dragon and ask for it to be custom tuned to resemble the Elear, it will set you pack a minimum of 700$~. That is the closest you will get if price is no object. If you want the cheapest then I would not go lower than the TO400s. I do not own the Elear but I have auditioned them for a day and yeah, that is what I am looking to buy in an earbud. They just sound...right. So i will say what the TO400s has in common with it since I own it: clarity, looks, dynamics, punchy, lively, realism, accuracy. Now do not imagine it will be the same as the Elear in those categories but I think its the _cheapest _sq you should go for that has an ounce of resemblance to the Elear. Also there something earbuds will never match the Elear in, bass.
> 
> So if money is no object I would say the Red Dragon since it is the only TOTL bud that you custom order depending on your taste. ( that I know of )





Yes, my Elears get the most head time (of full size cans) of all mine. The CAX is too rich for my blood, but the TO400s would be ok. 

1. Do you have the TO400s, and if so, at 400OHM do you find it properly driven by a good DAP or would it need more of an amp, I guess driven by a phone need not apply? I have the AK100II and I would think that would be sufficient.

2. Would you say they are warm signature or are they with non-rolled off extended treble?

I see I can order it from Penon directly or from Penon on eBay. I guess it wouldn't make much difference, (direct or eBay), if I live in the USA.

TIA


----------



## rkw

Blueshound24 said:


> Yes, my Elears get the most head time (of full size cans) of all mine. The CAX is too rich for my blood, but the TO400s would be ok.
> 
> 1. Do you have the TO400s, and if so, at 400OHM do you find it properly driven by a good DAP or would it need more of an amp, I guess driven by a phone need not apply? I have the AK100II and I would think that would be sufficient.
> 
> ...


I and others have commented on the TO400 having weak bass (although it can be EQ'd).  The TO200 is said to have more bass.


----------



## Ziggomatic (Sep 12, 2018)

Blueshound24 said:


> Yes, my Elears get the most head time (of full size cans) of all mine. The CAX is too rich for my blood, but the TO400s would be ok.
> 
> 1. Do you have the TO400s, and if so, at 400OHM do you find it properly driven by a good DAP or would it need more of an amp, I guess driven by a phone need not apply? I have the AK100II and I would think that would be sufficient.
> 
> ...



I use my TO400s with my Cayin i5 with plenty of headroom. Not sure how its specs compare to the AK100ii, but I think you're right that it would be fine.

I wouldn't personally classify their sound as being warm, but others may disagree. To me they have a very clear, energetic, and natural sound, but not overly warm. The treble sounds well extended to me without too much "zing" - it doesn't sound laid back or rolled off to me at all. I saw someone compare them (favorably) to the Grado house sound, and I tend to agree with that to a certain extent, though I would say they are much less harsh than some Grados I've experienced.

Edit: I would agree with the previous post that they are not strong in the bass department, though the bass that's there is very tuneful (it sounds nice) and well balanced.


----------



## rkw

New headphones from Audio-Technica coming in October, including a top-end *earbud*.

https://www.audio-technica.co.jp/smt/atj/show_model.php?modelId=3057
Solid titanium body, rumored to be $480.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Sep 12, 2018)

Ziggomatic said:


> I use my TO400s with my Cayin i5 with plenty of headroom. Not sure how its specs compare to the AK100ii, but I think you're right that it would be fine.
> 
> I wouldn't personally classify their sound as being warm, but others may disagree. To me *they have a very clear, energetic, and natural sound, but not overly warm. The treble sounds well extended to me without too much "zing" - it doesn't sound laid back or rolled off* to me at all. I saw someone compare them (favorably) to the Grado house sound, and I tend to agree with that to a certain extent, though I would say they are much less harsh than some Grados I've experienced.
> 
> Edit: I would agree with the previous post that they are not strong in the bass department, though *the bass that's there is very tuneful (it sounds nice) and well balanced*.




You just described the Elear signature, clear and energetic. Sounds like I may have to try them. Thx!

BTW, in a pinch how would they sound out of a just a phone without external amp?


----------



## activatorfly (Sep 12, 2018)

How long does it usually take for new buds on TB site to hit AE?


----------



## DAndrew

Blueshound24 said:


> Yes, my Elears get the most head time (of full size cans) of all mine. The CAX is too rich for my blood, but the TO400s would be ok.
> 
> 1. Do you have the TO400s, and if so, at 400OHM do you find it properly driven by a good DAP or would it need more of an amp, I guess driven by a phone need not apply? I have the AK100II and I would think that would be sufficient.
> 
> ...



1. I have them, they are driven _ok _even by my S7, Your AK100II is way more than sufficient.

2. It is a _bit_ on the bright side. I do not know why some people say it doesnt have enough bass. It certainly has more than my Blur and while there isnt a big quantity , there is quality to it.

Do not get it from Penon if you decide to buy it, it is on sale on aliexpress for 75$


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 12, 2018)

DAndrew said:


> 1. I have them, they are driven _ok _even by my S7, Your AK100II is way more than sufficient.
> 
> 2. It is a _bit_ on the bright side. I do not know why some people say it doesnt have enough bass. It certainly has more than my Blur and while there isnt a big quantity , there is quality to it.
> 
> Do not get it from Penon if you decide to buy it, it is on sale on aliexpress for 75$


It doesn't have enough bass. 

(It really doesn't, it rolls off a bit early too in the sub bass)



theoutsider said:


> WOW, look at the photo chop.



**** Employee
"If the girl is pretty enough they may not notice the horrible photoshop work"

Boss
"Let's go with it!"


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> It doesn't have enough bass.
> 
> (It really doesn't, it rolls off a bit early too)



I honestly have to disagree with you here. Imo the bass is there and enough. I get a good seal with them so that might also have something to do with it.

Regardless I stand by what I say, the bass has some punch and it is there. In a quantity that satisfies everyone? Not really
Enough for me? Yes.


----------



## theoutsider

seanc6441 said:


> **** Employee
> "If the girl is pretty enough they may not notice the horrible photoshop work"
> 
> Boss
> "Let's go with it!"



er, 
audiophiles have good ears but they are not blind.


----------



## silverfishla

rkw said:


> Fixed it.


The new **** PT25, like a small nuclear blast to your eardrums!  Great marketing.


----------



## seanc6441

DAndrew said:


> I honestly have to disagree with you here. Imo the bass is there and enough. I get a good seal with them so that might also have something to do with it.
> 
> Regardless I stand by what I say, the bass has some punch and it is there. In a quantity that satisfies everyone? Not really
> Enough for me? Yes.


But you have to consider that he is looking for an earbud to satisfy him coming from the Elear so if it doesn't have a powerful bass response (in earbud terms) it's gonna sound completey anemic coming from his headphones.

But ultimately its up to him to decide if the bass quantity and extension is important.


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> But you have to consider that he is looking for an earbud to satisfy him coming from the Elear so if it doesn't have a powerful bass response (in earbud terms) it's gonna sound completey anemic coming from his headphones.
> 
> But ultimately its up to him to decide if the bass quantity and extension is important.



Understandable but there is not another earbud in this price category to come close to the Elear in the rest of sq. If he just wants bass go with the Samsara. You cant beat that.

They have a very clear and detailed sq that sounds natural and energetic with good treble extension, which resembles the Elear


----------



## Ziggomatic

DAndrew said:


> Imo the bass is there and enough. I get a good seal with them so that might also have something to do with it.
> 
> Regardless I stand by what I say, the bass has some punch and it is there. In a quantity that satisfies everyone? Not really
> Enough for me? Yes.



Agree with this 100%.


----------



## Nothingzero

Hey.
I'm looking for some earbuds for 30$ (a little more if worth).
Mainly listen to metal music.
Thanks.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 12, 2018)

DAndrew said:


> Understandable but there is not another earbud in this price category to come close to the Elear in the rest of sq. If he just wants bass go with the Samsara. You cant beat that.
> 
> They have a very clear and detailed sq that sounds natural and energetic with good treble extension, which resembles the Elear


Ok but just give him fair warning that the bass impact isn't as impressive as some other buds at varying price ranges. I know you consider it enough but many of us have said that it is lacking in the sub bass and that's compared to other earbuds not even full size cans.

To bad no one here has heard the to600 to compare, that could be the answer if it has more bass and a similar signature.


----------



## Ziggomatic (Sep 12, 2018)

Nothingzero said:


> Hey.
> I'm looking for some earbuds for 30$ (a little more if worth).
> Mainly listen to metal music.
> Thanks.



There might be better options for metal, but I just have to recommend the HE 150pro. They sound very good to me, especially for around $30. I say there might be better options for metal because the 150pro is quite warm (though still surprisingly detailed), and I imagine not everyone prefers that type of sound signature for metal.

Edit: See review by @audio123 here.


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> Ok but just give him fair warning that the bass impact isn't as impressive as some other buds at varying price ranges. I know you consider it enough but many of us have said that it is lacking in the sub bass and that's compared to other earbuds not even full size cans.
> 
> To bad no one here has heard the to600 to compare, that could be the answer if it has more bass and a similar signature.



I am not willing to blind buy another ToneKing lol. Ordered a SPC copper cable for it, interested to see if it changes the sq


----------



## rkw

seanc6441 said:


> It doesn't have enough bass.
> 
> (It really doesn't, it rolls off a bit early too in the sub bass)





DAndrew said:


> I honestly have to disagree with you here. Imo the bass is there and enough. I get a good seal with them so that might also have something to do with it.
> 
> Regardless I stand by what I say, the bass has some punch and it is there. In a quantity that satisfies everyone? Not really
> Enough for me? Yes.


I'm with sean on this. I listen mostly to classical music and I'm not looking for strong bass — I want a neutral response to reproduce sound like live instruments in real life. I tried different foam combinations with the TO400 and I can get a good seal, but still the bass ends up sounding very recessed compared to everything else I own (earbuds, IEM, full size headphones).


----------



## bhima (Sep 12, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> VE donuts ve donuts ve donuts lol
> 
> Much more sealing and bring out the low end.



I tried the donuts that I believe came with my VE Monks on the Yincrow's as well. Still not comfortable. These are the most fiddly of all the earbuds I own, and I cannot get a good fit with them. Their sound quality is fantastic, but only if I painfully push them into my ears. Some earbuds do fine not being totally shoved in like an IEM, like the Graphenes or VE Monks. They can rest a bit on top of my upper ear opening instead of needing to be lodged below it without degrading the sound signature. This is not true of these Yincrows. You lose too much of the space/separation (which seems unintuitive but its true) and overall note fullness without them being plugged into your brain like Frankenstein bolts.

I wonder if I can get a REALLY thick donut, that will allow me to rest the bud on the top of my ear opening but it would still create enough of a seal. Heigl might work but I don't have them. I might try and double-foam them and cut holes in the foam.


----------



## activatorfly

Just applied new mod to EB2 shells - same mod I used for VX-Pro (as they're the same size shells) - using ear hook rubber, minus the hooks obvs.

- Add a donut foam & your good to go! - it really improves the seal....& definitely increases width & depth of sound-stage + adds lots of extra weight to instruments! win-win.


----------



## theoutsider

EB2 vs Liebeslied size comparison 
(picture from ITW01)


----------



## activatorfly

theoutsider said:


> EB2 vs Liebeslied size comparison
> (picture from ITW01)


I know this might be controversial - budt the only thing I'm jealous of in the above pic is:


----------



## activatorfly

^^^ or if the EB2 had been silver like the Liebeslied...haha!!


----------



## seanc6441

bhima said:


> I tried the donuts that I believe came with my VE Monks on the Yincrow's as well. Still not comfortable. These are the most fiddly of all the earbuds I own, and I cannot get a good fit with them. Their sound quality is fantastic, but only if I painfully push them into my ears. Some earbuds do fine not being totally shoved in like an IEM, like the Graphenes or VE Monks. They can rest a bit on top of my upper ear opening instead of needing to be lodged below it without degrading the sound signature. This is not true of these Yincrows. You lose too much of the space/separation (which seems unintuitive but its true) and overall note fullness without them being plugged into your brain like Frankenstein bolts.
> 
> I wonder if I can get a REALLY thick donut, that will allow me to rest the bud on the top of my ear opening but it would still create enough of a seal. Heigl might work but I don't have them. I might try and double-foam them and cut holes in the foam.


Show me a pic of the donuts your talking about, the VE donuts are the thickest ive seen of any foams so im curious if yours aren't just regular donuts.


----------



## activatorfly

Need to recover from red chi-fi-fever! - i.e. over-exposure to......P.I.C.S.

Photo Chop Suey Indeedy!


----------



## seanc6441

activatorfly said:


> I know this might be controversial - budt the only thing I'm jealous of in the above pic is:


Nicehck sells those amoung other sellers, I bought like 6 myself. Pretty handy except I wish it had 2 buttons for thick/thin cables to adjust the tightness.


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> Show me a pic of the donuts your talking about, the VE donuts are the thickest ive seen of any foams so im curious if yours aren't just regular donuts.


- Yeah I want in on these thick donuts too! lol


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> Nicehck sells those amoung other sellers, I bought like 6 myself. Pretty handy except I wish it had 2 buttons for thick/thin cables to adjust the tightness.


Knew that I'd seen em somewhere - defo gonna order a batch from Jim!


----------



## seanc6441

activatorfly said:


> - Yeah I want in on these thick donuts too! lol


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


>


Are they the VE ones?


----------



## seanc6441

activatorfly said:


> Are they the VE ones?


Yeah, also come in black and white. I haven't seen anything thicker than these unless you double foam.


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> Yeah, also come in black and white. I haven't seen anything thicker than these unless you double foam.


Yeah I always have to double up, so gonna order the VE's - had them in my cart twice now....never got round to pulling the trigger! lol


----------



## activatorfly

I definitely want the **** PT25 - hope they hit Ali soon!


----------



## DAndrew

rkw said:


> I'm with sean on this. I listen mostly to classical music and I'm not looking for strong bass — I want a neutral response to reproduce sound like live instruments in real life. I tried different foam combinations with the TO400 and I can get a good seal, but still the bass ends up sounding very recessed compared to everything else I own (earbuds, IEM, full size headphones).



Each his own. I have learned that its not only about one part of the sq that matters in an earbud. You can trash all you want on its bass, but the detail and clarity is unbeatable at that price range


----------



## seanc6441

DAndrew said:


> Each his own. I have learned that its not only about one part of the sq that matters in an earbud. You can trash all you want on its bass, but the detail and clarity is unbeatable at that price range


True it's very detailed whilst retaining a neutral sound sig. But for me with the limited extension and impact of bass many earbuds have, bass is very important to me, infact extension on both ends is very important in retaining a sound that resembles headphones.


----------



## subwoof3r

My NiceHCK *EBX* review is finally finished!
You can read it *HERE*
Enjoy


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> True it's very detailed whilst retaining a neutral sound sig. But for me with the limited extension and impact of bass many earbuds have, bass is very important to me, infact extension on both ends is very important in retaining a sound that resembles headphones.


I guess that's why you sold them? - even after trying EQ adjustment....


----------



## activatorfly

subwoof3r said:


> My NiceHCK *EBX* review is finally finished!
> You can read it *HERE*
> Enjoy


Thanks for the review. - however I'm sticking with EB2 - they seem to be grafted into my ear canals since landing - not even CAX have been able to dislodge them! lol


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 12, 2018)

activatorfly said:


> I know this might be controversial - budt the only thing I'm jealous of in the above pic is:



You like these?  Me too.  A pack of 40 on Amazon Uk for 12 pound...delivered the next day.


----------



## vladstef

activatorfly said:


> ^^^ or if the EB2 had been silver like the Liebeslied...haha!!



There is a silver version (imho better looking than black but as far as I can tell NiceHCK only sent out black ones). Turquoise blue markings for left side are very weird looking to me.


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> You like these?  Me too.  A pack of 40 on Amazon Uk for 12 pound...delivered the next day.


Thanks - these look neat & I only need a few tbh!

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/PU-...535f-419d-9ec1-253350f7c4e3&priceBeautifyAB=0


----------



## activatorfly

vladstef said:


> There is a silver version (imho better looking than black but as far as I can tell NiceHCK only sent out black ones). Turquoise blue markings for left side are very weird looking to me.


Balanced version of those will ROCK !!!


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> Yeah, also come in black and white. I haven't seen anything thicker than these unless you double foam.


The VE $5 EX pack also has two pairs of small ear hook rubbers - they'll be ideal for EB2 shells....Cheers!


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> You like these?  Me too.  A pack of 40 on Amazon Uk for 12 pound...delivered the next day.


They look nice, much better value


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> They look nice, much better value




With two headfiers in the house you know we will use them all


----------



## activatorfly

New vinyl arriving tomorrow


mbwilson111 said:


> With two headfiers in the house you know we will use them all


Definitely! lol


----------



## activatorfly

New double album vinyl arriving tomorrow....might give them a spin (& buds) via a graphic EQ: American Audio Xeq-152b.
Coupled with a Cambridge Audio AZUR 551P pre-amp -  I'll see if I can open up some frequencies!!


----------



## seanc6441

Anyone know of a way to contact the K's brand via email or FB messanger? Is there a direct line to them or do they only deal through third party sellers.

Thinking if I save up now I can buy that new K's flagship bud...

But if its like the poseidon and only sold on taobao that will be more difficult.

@ClieOS @golov17 you guys may know of a way?


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> Anyone know of a way to contact the K's brand via email or FB messanger? Is there a direct line to them or do they only deal through third party sellers.
> 
> Thinking if I save up now I can buy that new K's flagship bud...
> 
> ...



I do have direct contact with them via QQ, WeChat, as well as Taobao internal PM, but they are not really English speaking people so I am not sure how your communication will go with them even if you get in contact with them directly. Besides, buying directly from them means you need a way to pay them, and typically they will either go with the Taobao route or WeChat Pay. If you really want to try, I can ask them for email address. Otherwise there is always the option of using a Taobao forwarding / buying agent.


----------



## ClieOS

mbwilson111 said:


> You like these?  Me too.  A pack of 40 on Amazon Uk for 12 pound...delivered the next day.



These days I go for the more "attractive" option


----------



## snip3r77

rkw said:


> Fixed it.



is that flatulence?


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> I do have direct contact with them via QQ, WeChat, as well as Taobao internal PM, but they are not really English speaking people so I am not sure how your communication will go with them even if you get in contact with them directly. Besides, buying directly from them means you need a way to pay them, and typically they will either go with the Taobao route or WeChat Pay. If you really want to try, I can ask them for email address. Otherwise there is always the option of using a Taobao forwarding / buying agent.


Thanks Clieos ill think it over for a few days and get back to you if i need the email. Maybe its best to use forwarding service I'll have to decide that. Thanks again.


----------



## rkw

snip3r77 said:


> is that flatulence?


****'s description (Google Translate): "_sound quality never compromises metal back cavity strictly according to unit characteristics design, reduce The generation of refracted waves suppresses the bass resonance, and the double-damping system of the front and rear chambers absorbs excess noise and is tuned in strict accordance with the standards of the hires._"


rkw said:


>


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 12, 2018)

activatorfly said:


> I guess that's why you sold them? - even after trying EQ adjustment....


That and the slight dip in the upper mids-lower treble. These are no doubt quite neutral except they do drop slightly in that region before raising in the treble giving them air and extension but lacking that slightly brighter tilt on electric guitar, some female vocals etc. The signature is very like the shozy BK with slightly better low mids (more neutral). It's no longer my preferred sound and I'm moving towards a slightly warm low to brighter top end musical tilt because it just sounds sweeter to my ears. The K's ling is pretty close to my preferred sound. The BS1 also once i bass boost.

But yes, anything without impressive end to end extension I won't even consider anymore (unless its a budget bud) because I don't get any wow factor from mid centric buds. If I want vocal quality alone I'll just listen to my Rose Masya or BS1. If I want a full size headphone experience it needs proper extension like the Ling can just about pull off.

The new K's bud is so attractive for this very reason. I like the signature and it's done what I wanted to the shell being open. Also the design is stunning and very comfortable. I might miss the extra weight of the brass though if I sell my Ling to buy the new one lol


----------



## rkw

seanc6441 said:


> The new K's bud is so attractive for this very reason. I like the signature and it's done what I wanted to the shell being open. Also the design is stunning and very comfortable. I might miss the extra weight of the brass though if I sell my Ling to buy the new one lol


I know of black & white Ling's, and Poseidon. Is there a new one?


----------



## seanc6441

rkw said:


> I know of black & white Ling's, and Poseidon. Is there a new one?


Soon apperantly

https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=576940933514

I want one  ....


----------



## snip3r77

Usually the listed price will be expensive for PT25. Then after awhile it will go down to street price then promo price.


----------



## ClieOS

So many interesting earbuds being announced / released in that last couple of days is kind of head spinning 

...and bank draining


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> So many interesting earbuds being announced / released in that last couple of days is kind of head spinning
> 
> ...and bank draining


If it's too much for you ClieOS how do you think us lightweights feel 

Earbuds are on the up, horaay!!!


----------



## golov17

ClieOS said:


> So many interesting earbuds being announced / released in that last couple of days is kind of head spinning
> 
> ...and bank draining


----------



## rkw (Sep 12, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> ...and bank draining


The most bank draining one? K's Poseidon in sterling silver.
https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=560729580503 (need to view on phone)




 ¥29999 (it says "about USD 4372.01")


----------



## 40760

rkw said:


> The most bank draining one? K's Poseidon in sterling silver.
> https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=560729580503 (need to view on phone)
> 
> 
> ...



That must be the most expensive earbuds I've ever seen!


----------



## ClieOS (Sep 13, 2018)

rkw said:


> The most bank draining one? K's Poseidon in sterling silver.
> https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=560729580503 (need to view on phone)
> 
> 
> ...



Actually there might be a bit of lost in translation in there. The "normal" Poseidon, like the one I have, is already pure silver. This particular link above is actually for custom order of either pure gold or platinum Poseidon, hence the price.


----------



## snip3r77

seanc6441 said:


> If it's too much for you ClieOS how do you think us lightweights feel
> 
> Earbuds are on the up, horaay!!!


It’s very very niche


----------



## gazzington

Hi.  I’m after a dap that plays tidal and Spotify.  I’ve tried hiby r6 and r3 and lets just say they’re not for me.  I’m now considering a LG v30 or another phone.  Any recs?  I usually use earbuds like willsound, blurs, zens etc


----------



## activatorfly

ClieOS said:


> Actually there might be a bit of lost in translation in there. The "normal" Poseidon, like the one I have, is already pure silver. This particular link above is actually for custom order of either pure gold or platinum Poseidon, hence the price.


What is the price? (I'm not on my phone.) - even the newly released (512gb) iPhone Xs Max costs $1,449!


----------



## rkw

activatorfly said:


> What is the price? (I'm not on my phone.) - even the newly released (512gb) iPhone Xs Max costs $1,449!


The prices on TaoBao are (Chinese yuan) ¥2999 for silver Poseidon or ¥299999 for gold/platinum Poseidon, which convert to USD $438 and $4380 respectively at current exchange rates.


----------



## subwoof3r

rkw said:


> ¥29999 (it says "about USD 4372.01")


Too bad, another masterpiece earbud that is made for nothing, as nobody will buy it anyway at this price tag, lol


----------



## ClieOS

subwoof3r said:


> Too bad, another masterpiece earbud that is made for nothing, as nobody will buy it anyway at this price tag, lol



Surprisingly enough, someone did buy the pure gold version.


----------



## subwoof3r

ClieOS said:


> Surprisingly enough, someone did buy the pure gold version.


Probably the creator himself


----------



## drawun

Just wondering do earbuds and pod have difference in term of the isolation and comfort? Which would be ideal if I wanted to take a break from stuffing IEM inside my ear canal and still listening to music/movies/game(yep, I'm most on phone)?


----------



## ClieOS

drawun said:


> Just wondering do earbuds and pod have difference in term of the isolation and comfort? Which would be ideal if I wanted to take a break from stuffing IEM inside my ear canal and still listening to music/movies/game(yep, I'm most on phone)?



Pod? What is a "pod"? Do you mean earpod? That's just a marketing term created by Apple so people who buy their earbuds can feel "special".


----------



## RobinFood

ClieOS said:


> Pod? What is a "pod"? Do you mean earpod? That's just a marketing term created by Apple so people who buy their earbuds can feel "special".



Maybe they meant half-in-ears, like the Sony STH32B...

http://www.e-earphone.jp/shopdetail/000000139042/

Those half-in-ears are REALLY comfortable and have a nice seal giving it a hefty Sony house-sound bassy sound. They don't have that wide sound stage that regular earbud shells have though. I enjoyed them when I tried them, but I didn't feel they were worth 30$


----------



## jant71 (Sep 13, 2018)

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=https://www.audio-technica.co.jp/atj/show_model.php?modelId=3057&prev=search

ATH-CM 2000Ti
■ Newly developed Φ15.4 mm HD driver that combines magnetic circuit adopting permendur and diamond like carbon (DLC) coating diaphragm.
■ Precision Cutting Full titanium body eliminates unnecessary resonance thoroughly.
■ Inner ear type that realizes a wide sound field with open feeling.
■ High sound quality A2DC connector for audio is adopted.
■ Reduce crosstalk with Starcad stranded cable / cord with ground separated by L / R.
Both outgoing 1.2 m balance cable (φ4.4 mm 5 pole plug) and 1.2 m cord are included to enhance the sense of separation of left and right sounds.

Spec
Model: Dynamic type
Driver: φ 15.4 mm
Output sound pressure level: 102 dB / mW
Reproduction frequency band: 10 to 45,000 Hz
Impedance: 16 Ω


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Sep 13, 2018)

What are good high impedance buds with strong sub bass, thinking about ty hi z hp320, or seahf 400ohm can you guy recommend a few, it's for me and the wife, she likes allot of hip hop, rap, and a bit of EDM, I like old rock and underground hip hop, salsa and reggae, we have nicehck eb200 ( good but a little muddy) ty hi z hp150  ( great but also not the cleanest bass)  and I have a few ve earbuds, I am looking for something bass heads might enjoy, we have a zishan ak4490 dsd, zishan z3 and Walnut v2, also have fiio a3 amp and Walnut F1 and I have a zishan ak4497 coming


----------



## HungryPanda

K's 600 or Seahf AWK-F320S does it for me


----------



## Themilkman46290

HungryPanda said:


> K's 600 or Seahf AWK-F320S does it for me


Could you tell me, I'm your opinion  how they sound ?


----------



## beyermann

I haven't found a PK3 replacement, for 50 bucks none sound as good. Unfortunately the new batches don't sound as good.


----------



## HungryPanda (Sep 13, 2018)

K's 600 sound like a full size headphone to me (like HD650) The Seahf AWK-F320s I use if I want a bit extra bass, The TY Hi-Z 320 is slightly more V-shaped than either


----------



## drawun (Sep 13, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> Pod? What is a "pod"? Do you mean earpod? That's just a marketing term created by Apple so people who buy their earbuds can feel "special".


No, not that that particularly. Not sure the exact term. The half in ear I guess. Like the MEMT T5 and Earpods.
Just wondering the difference apart from the their form factor. Particularly isolation and comfort wise.
Currently looking at VE Monk and MEMT T5 for options. Maybe you could recommend me a pair that cost much like the two(local Malaysia sellers would be bonus).



RobinFood said:


> Maybe they meant half-in-ears, like the Sony STH32B...
> 
> http://www.e-earphone.jp/shopdetail/000000139042/
> 
> Those half-in-ears are REALLY comfortable and have a nice seal giving it a hefty Sony house-sound bassy sound. They don't have that wide sound stage that regular earbud shells have though. I enjoyed them when I tried them, but I didn't feel they were worth 30$


Last time I had earbuds when I was kids. Can't remember much about how did they feel those days.
Tried Earpods from Apple earlier and they didn't sound bad. The bass was there. Subtle but it was there. No where near iem(given the isolation) but good enough if you're not in crowded/noisy environment. The instruments sounded mixed at a time but nothing piercing. Comfort wise, it was a nice experience.
Think it's good to have a spare around when it's in the middle of the night, everyone is sleeping, and you're alone in the room deciding which film to watch(before falling asleep eventually).


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 13, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> It’s very very niche


Yes but it's more popular than say, a year ago today and now a big brand is producing a high end model. Happy days 


gazzington said:


> Hi.  I’m after a dap that plays tidal and Spotify.  I’ve tried hiby r6 and r3 and lets just say they’re not for me.  I’m now considering a LG v30 or another phone.  Any recs?  I usually use earbuds like willsound, blurs, zens etc


What didn't you like about the R6?

By contrast the V20 and V30 have a brighter tilt and more neutral sub bass. The 20 has slightly more mid bass than the 30. Because of this the 30 has the slightly better balanced mid range. Treble is similar on both.


----------



## ClieOS (Sep 13, 2018)

drawun said:


> No, not that that particularly. Not sure the exact term. The half in ear I guess. Like the MEMT T5 and Earpods.
> Just wondering the difference apart from the their form factor. Particularly isolation and comfort wise.
> Currently looking at VE Monk and MEMT T5 for options. Maybe you could recommend me a pair that cost much like the two(local Malaysia sellers would be bonus).



While the current trend is to adopt the same design that Apple has made for the earpod, an earbud with a semi-sealing nozzle is neither a new idea nor invented by Apple. IIRC, this kind of design first popped up back in the 90s - Sony, Aiwa, Philips, Panasonic all made earbuds of this sort back then. Chinese even called them 'pig's nose' earbuds because of the nozzle. The term half-in-ear is also not earpod (or even earbuds) specific. We first saw its use for describing IEM that is semi-opened on the nozzle or front chamble - I have seen Bose and Phiaton both used the term to describe their in-ear before it is used to describe any earpod like design. While Apple does improve the nozzle design for better comfort, the fact that it isn't an secured seal means isolation really is not going to be great when compared to IEM. As for the more traditional looking earbuds, they also do not offer much isolation as well - but depends how good the fit is, they might be able to match the earpod's isolation. That's really is very personal and different from personal to person.


----------



## gazzington

seanc6441 said:


> Yes but it's more popular than say, a year ago today and now a big brand is producing a high end model. Happy days
> 
> What didn't you like about the R6?
> 
> By contrast the V20 and V30 have a brighter tilt and more neutral sub bass. The 20 has slightly more mid bass than the 30. Because of this the 30 has the slightly better balanced mid range. Treble is similar on both.


The r6 was a well built machine with a lovely interface but I just did not like the sound to the extent I even preferred my iPod touch! The R3 was poorly built and rattled when I picked it up!  At the moment I mostly use iPod touch 6th gen with fiio q5 amp.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 13, 2018)

earbudy said:


> Please help. Someone reply to my previous post. I need to buy a PK3 replacement, all other earbuds i've tried suck but im scared to buy a new PK3 anymore because people say there's tons of fakes out there and Yuin itself no longer builts it the same, somehow they don't sound the same. What can I do?


Do you use them foamless. I heard the Shozy XB might be a good option foamless or with very thin foams. It uses a docomo shell which is very similar comfort wise to a pk shell. The braid cable looks great.


----------



## seanc6441

gazzington said:


> The r6 was a well built machine with a lovely interface but I just did not like the sound to the extent I even preferred my iPod touch! The R3 was poorly built and rattled when I picked it up!  At the moment I mostly use iPod touch 6th gen with fiio q5 amp.


What about the sound didnt you like, i sold mine also.


----------



## gazzington

seanc6441 said:


> What about the sound didnt you like, i sold mine also.


From what I remember, it had a full sound but not as spacious as I'd like. Just wasn't fun to listen to


----------



## Themilkman46290

HungryPanda said:


> K's 600 sound like a full size headphone to me (like HD650) The Seahf AWK-F320s I use if I want a bit extra bass, The TY Hi-Z 320 is slightly more V-shaped than either


Thanks that actually helps a lot,  guess I will wait for the 11/11 sale and grab the k's  and seahf , I might still get the ty hi z ( found them locally)


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm actually listening to K's 300 Pro right now and I really like the K's tuning


----------



## seanc6441

gazzington said:


> From what I remember, it had a full sound but not as spacious as I'd like. Just wasn't fun to listen to


I found it a little dark leaning, not enough to consider it overly warm or dull but it gave the sound a heavy-smooth quality. I prefered the more light and energetic presentation of the LG V series. I will say there's probably more spacious sounds in high end daps but the V30 is pretty great all round. Definitely not dull sounding.

If you are sensitive to brightness though I don't recommend getting a dap that's brighter than neutral, but if like me you want a detailed and energetic butsmooth sound this phone is great. It's notably smoother than the Cayin DAP I tried which was all about texture/micro detailing.


----------



## gazzington

seanc6441 said:


> What about the sound didnt you like, i sold mine also.


What dap are you using now?


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 13, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> I'm actually listening to K's 300 Pro right now and I really like the K's tuning


If it's anything like my ling tuning I agree. Great balance between fun and mature tuning. Never boring.


gazzington said:


> What dap are you using now?


V30+


----------



## silverfishla

Themilkman46290 said:


> What are good high impedance buds with strong sub bass, thinking about ty hi z hp320, or seahf 400ohm can you guy recommend a few, it's for me and the wife, she likes allot of hip hop, rap, and a bit of EDM, I like old rock and underground hip hop, salsa and reggae, we have nicehck eb200 ( good but a little muddy) ty hi z hp150  ( great but also not the cleanest bass)  and I have a few ve earbuds, I am looking for something bass heads might enjoy, we have a zishan ak4490 dsd, zishan z3 and Walnut v2, also have fiio a3 amp and Walnut F1 and I have a zishan ak4497 coming


With the Zishan (I have the Z2 and Z3) I like the Seaf 32 Ohm (full smooth sound) Toneking TP 16 (great space and separation) and the new Datura X (big headphone sounding).  The extra oomph the Zishan provide are a good match with these, even though they are relatively inexpensive.


----------



## Themilkman46290

silverfishla said:


> With the Zishan (I have the Z2 and Z3) I like the Seaf 32 Ohm (full smooth sound) Toneking TP 16 (great space and separation) and the new Datura X (big headphone sounding).  The extra oomph the Zishan provide are a good match with these, even though they are relatively inexpensive.


Thanks but I am specifically looking for high impedance


----------



## mochill

Those audio technica will


----------



## drawun (Sep 14, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> While the current trend is to adopt the same design that Apple has made for the earpod, an earbud with a semi-sealing nozzle is neither a new idea nor invented by Apple. IIRC, this kind of design first popped up back in the 90s - Sony, Aiwa, Philips, Panasonic all made earbuds of this sort back then. Chinese even called them 'pig's nose' earbuds because of the nozzle. The term half-in-ear is also not earpod (or even earbuds) specific. We first saw its use for describing IEM that is semi-opened on the nozzle or front chamble - I have seen Bose and Phiaton both used the term to describe their in-ear before it is used to describe any earpod like design. While Apple does improve the nozzle design for better comfort, the fact that it isn't an secured seal means isolation really is not going to be great when compared to IEM. As for the more traditional looking earbuds, they also do not offer much isolation as well - but depends how good the fit is, they might be able to match the earpod's isolation. That's really is very personal and different from personal to person.


Well that's new(at least to me). Bit of both worlds they are maybe(earbuds+IEM).

To be honest the isolation from the EarPods was more than I expected(to my ears) and surprisingly very comfortable.
But they're not mine though. Therefore I'm currently looking for similar design(apart from the Apple's of course) for options while still open for traditional earbuds(VE Monk currently) suggestion.
Any recommendation?forgot the rule sorry.


----------



## golov17

mochill said:


> Those audio technica will


ATH-CM200Ti live pic


----------



## gazzington

seanc6441 said:


> I found it a little dark leaning, not enough to consider it overly warm or dull but it gave the sound a heavy-smooth quality. I prefered the more light and energetic presentation of the LG V series. I will say there's probably more spacious sounds in high end daps but the V30 is pretty great all round. Definitely not dull sounding.
> 
> If you are sensitive to brightness though I don't recommend getting a dap that's brighter than neutral, but if like me you want a detailed and energetic butsmooth sound this phone is great. It's notably smoother than the Cayin DAP I tried which was all about texture/micro detailing.


You’ve described it well, dark heavy and smooth. I just didn’t like it and I had the same problem with fiio x5iii.  I think I may try the v30


----------



## Zerohour88

HungryPanda said:


> I'm actually listening to K's 300 Pro right now and I really like the K's tuning



what's the difference compared to the K's 300? Though to be honest, I'm more interested in the 600 as I'm looking for an upgrade for my T0180 (that TO600 also looking delicious)


----------



## rkw (Sep 13, 2018)

golov17 said:


> ATH-CM200Ti live pic


I had the ATH-CM7ti titanium earbuds many years ago (around 2005).





It was so long ago and the only thing I remember is that Yuin buds were my favorite around that time. I'm happy that AT is back with a premium earbud and looking forward to seeing what they can do now. If only Sony and Sennheiser would also get back into the game.


----------



## seanc6441

gazzington said:


> You’ve described it well, dark heavy and smooth. I just didn’t like it and I had the same problem with fiio x5iii.  I think I may try the v30


The V30 has the same smoothness, sheds a few pounds of weight so sounds more delicate, as it's is neutral to bright leaning.

The R6 had a wider soundstage, the V30 intentionally pursues a more forward sound at the expense of some width, however it never sounds congested or enclosed thanks to its excellent separation and clarity.

The bass on the V30 is neutral to my ears, not even hinting at an emphasis of either mid bass (like the v20) or sub bass (like the R6), it's simply flat and accurate so your gear will determine the bass response.


----------



## HungryPanda

K300 has a more bloated bass than K300 Pro which has a clearer presentation could be because of the cable. I prefer the K300 Pro.

K300 on the left


----------



## golov17 (Sep 13, 2018)

rkw said:


> I had the ATH-CM7ti titanium earbuds many years ago (around 2005).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have cm7sv & cm700ti.. love them..


----------



## gazzington

seanc6441 said:


> The V30 has the same smoothness, sheds a few pounds of weight so sounds more delicate, as it's is neutral to bright leaning.
> 
> The R6 had a wider soundstage, the V30 intentionally pursues a more forward sound at the expense of some width, however it never sounds congested or enclosed thanks to its excellent separation and clarity.
> 
> The bass on the V30 is neutral to my ears, not even hinting at an emphasis of either mid bass (like the v20) or sub bass (like the R6), it's simply flat and accurate so your gear will determine the bass response.


What earbuds do you find pair with the v30 nicely?


----------



## beyermann

Anyone can recommend a PK3 replacement that sounds as good?


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 13, 2018)

gazzington said:


> What earbuds do you find pair with the v30 nicely?


Well if you are looking for neutrality anything with a good bass response amd a slightly warm tilt will sound neutralish-balanced.

I go for buds with a deep but slightly warm bass, neutral mids, slightly brighter treble.

The only thing the doesn't sound the best on the V30 is anything with too much presence at 3-4khz because the already bright sig of the v30 will add some harshness around that area if the bud is too agressive in the upper mids.

Also anything too thin around 500-1000hz will sound a little weak on the vocals. Full sounding buds sound great on the V30.

I go for deep punchy bass because the v30 is accurate and tight in the bass so it will rarely sound sloppy in the sub bass regardless of the earbud.

The upper treble region from like 8-16khz is not overly emphasised on the v30 and remains pretty neutral so don't be cautious of trebly earbuds as long as the upper mids are not grating it will sound very good.


----------



## waynes world (Sep 13, 2018)

gazzington said:


> Hi.  I’m after a dap that plays tidal and Spotify.  I’ve tried hiby r6 and r3 and lets just say they’re not for me.  I’m now considering a LG v30 or another phone.  Any recs?  I usually use earbuds like willsound, blurs, zens etc



You can save yourself a lot of money and still get excellent sound quality with the Radsone Earstudio ES100 (for $100, and sometimes on sale for less).

Edit: The ES100 does LDAC, so as long as your phone also does LDAC, you're set. Oh, and the ES100 has dual DACs and does balanced as well. And it can be used as a USB DAC. And it has great battery life. And it has a wonderful phone app with EQ etc. And Radsone provides amazing support.


----------



## golov17 (Sep 13, 2018)

beyermann said:


> Anyone can recommend a PK3 replacement that sounds as good?


Docomo
 or Panda


----------



## activatorfly

Zerohour88 said:


> what's the difference compared to the K's 300? Though to be honest, I'm more interested in the 600 as I'm looking for an upgrade for my T0180 (that TO600 also looking delicious)


I'm not impressed by the 300...so expect the 300 Pro to be much better! - also recently bought TO200 & tried upgrading them with a balanced cable - still not sure if they're a keeper tbh!


----------



## activatorfly (Sep 13, 2018)

waynes world said:


> You can save yourself a lot of money and still get excellent sound quality with the Radsone Earstudio ES100 (for $100, and sometimes on sale for less).
> 
> Edit: The ES100 does LDAC, so as long as your phone also does LDAC, you're set. Oh, and the ES100 has dual DACs and does balanced as well. And it can be used as a USB DAC. And it has great battery life. And it has a wonderful phone app with EQ etc. And Radsone provides amazing support.


I couldn't agree more...stunning product!!....LDAC via the Sony nw zx300 totally ROCKS !!


----------



## HungryPanda

activatorfly said:


> I'm not impressed by the 300...so expect the 300 Pro to be much better! - also recently bought TO200 & tried upgrading them with a balanced cable - still not sure if they're a keeper tbh!


I like the Toneking TO200 as it has a bit more bass than the TO400 which is a tad more neutral, like them both though


----------



## activatorfly

HungryPanda said:


> I like the Toneking TO200 as it has a bit more bass than the TO400 which is a tad more neutral, like them both though


I bought the TO200 instead of EBX (- totally influenced by your recommendation) - just A/B'd them with EB2 - the clear winner on every level imo!


----------



## toear

activatorfly said:


> I bought the TO200 instead of EBX (- totally influenced by your recommendation) - just A/B'd them with EB2 - the clear winner on every level imo!



to clarify, which is your winner? TO200 or EB2?

thx!


----------



## activatorfly

toear said:


> to clarify, which is your winner? TO200 or EB2?
> 
> thx!


Which do you think?


----------



## beyermann (Sep 13, 2018)

golov17 said:


> Docomo
> or Panda




Links? i dont want to buy fakes from wrong source.

But how does it really compare to PK3? equal, better? the EQ is nice and clear like PK3 good soundstage etc? help


----------



## toear

I'm hoping for eb2... But everything else tells me TO200.

I have the eb2 incoming. TO200 has been on my list. Ended up with the k300 samsara instead from last alie sale...


----------



## mochill

Toneking to600 on penon audio


----------



## golov17

beyermann said:


> Links? i dont want to buy fakes from wrong source.
> 
> But how does it really compare to PK3? equal, better? the EQ is nice and clear like PK3 good soundstage etc? help


Docomo sold out unfortunately..
Try Panda
 2017 New DQSM Z
http://s.aliexpress.com/JNBZNnAv


----------



## wazzupi

Anyone use a v30 as a source for the to200-600s ?


----------



## Kashtan

seanc6441 said:


> I've heard, to name a few good ones: K's Black Ling, Rose Mojito, Shozy BK, Rose Masya, Penon BS1 Official.
> 
> I'd say the Black Ling is potentially the best, Mojito next. If my BS1 had a stronger sub bass and better comfort id rate it very highly, lovely detail and bright but smooth response for the price. Black Ling sounds like the BS1 with a big bass boost, but it's very pick of foams choice.
> 
> Others I haven't heard but are very well regarded include Cypherus Red Dragon, Zoomfred/Pro, Cax Black, Moondrop liebesleid, K's Poseidon, Zen 2.0 black edition, Simphonio Dragon 2+...


Thank you.
Every new day i find new info about earbuds. example what you think about VE ZEN white 320 Ohm  $716.00 and Frigga DS1 Ebony $810?


----------



## HungryPanda

i use a V30 with TO200 and TO400, both engage high impedance mode and sound good


----------



## vladstef

wazzupi said:


> Anyone use a v30 as a source for the to200-600s ?



I've used V20 with TO400 driver (I think it was). It triggers high gain and you could kill someone with the loudness.


----------



## beyermann

golov17 said:


> Docomo sold out unfortunately..
> Try Panda
> 2017 New DQSM Z
> http://s.aliexpress.com/JNBZNnAv



Aliexpress? isn't that filled with chinese fakes?  how do you know its legit?

Also it comes with no pads? i like to have some pads, feels nice on my ears. I still have some of the yuin PK3 pads, do they fit in these?


----------



## jant71 (Sep 13, 2018)

Beyermann, NiceHCK is legit.
Feedback pics show this...





So it should come with enough stuff. You can certainly contact and confirm as well.


----------



## seanc6441

beyermann said:


> Aliexpress? isn't that filled with chinese fakes?  how do you know its legit?
> 
> Also it comes with no pads? i like to have some pads, feels nice on my ears. I still have some of the yuin PK3 pads, do they fit in these?


99% of these buds are chi fi/small diy Asian brands. These aren't fakes, they just are not mainstream brands that no longer support earbuds.

Those dsqm buds do come with foams.


----------



## HungryPanda

I must have a ton of good sounding fake stuff


----------



## beyermann

seanc6441 said:


> 99% of these buds are chi fi/small diy Asian brands. These aren't fakes, they just are not mainstream brands that no longer support earbuds.
> 
> Those dsqm buds do come with foams.



But are they as good as pk3 sonically? does DSQM or whatever the brand is doesn't have an actual website so you can buy directly from it? 

I mean with yuin apparently the PK3 doesn't sound as good anymore, so you never know what you are buying anymore, not even from the real website


----------



## beyermann

HungryPanda said:


> I must have a ton of good sounding fake stuff


How are they compared from PK3? (pk3 from 2009 ish, not the new one)


----------



## HungryPanda

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...rphones-Earbuds-Free-Shipping/1474293320.html


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 13, 2018)

Kashtan said:


> Thank you.
> Every new day i find new info about earbuds. example what you think about VE ZEN white 320 Ohm  $716.00 and Frigga DS1 Ebony $810?


The former is a newer variant to compete with the zen black i guess, the latter i have never heard of.

BTW the Zen white or Black use the same driver as the $150 Zen 2.0. They use expensive hi end cables which is the difference and why they are so pricey.

But really whats this frigga bud can i see a link to it? XD


----------



## beyermann

HungryPanda said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...rphones-Earbuds-Free-Shipping/1474293320.html



How do you know its legit? 100% original is what I would put if I was selling fakes 

Have you tried the PK3 vs the panda? the panda is cheaper, and the cable looks better, the only thing I hated about the PK3 is the weak cable, mine broke due the cable splitting

If panda sound can match PK3 then I will give panda a try


----------



## seanc6441

beyermann said:


> How are they compared from PK3? (pk3 from 2009 ish, not the new one)


I don't think it would be a challange to equal or beat the pk3 as the quality of earbuds in the budget range continues to improve, sadly i havent heard the pk3 myself so i cannot say which budget bud sounds like it.

Some stuff you can check out

- Nicehck EB2
- Nicehck  DSQM pk2
- Shozy XB
- Faeaal Datura X


----------



## chinmie

i took the red pill. now i got TM9 coming my way


----------



## jant71

Speaking of NiceHCK, I see the **** PT25 is there for $39.99 minus your coupons


----------



## seanc6441

beyermann said:


> But are they as good as pk3 sonically? does DSQM or whatever the brand is doesn't have an actual website so you can buy directly from it?
> 
> I mean with yuin apparently the PK3 doesn't sound as good anymore, so you never know what you are buying anymore, not even from the real website


You may not but many of us having been watching these smaller brands release good products for awhile now. Nicehck sells good earbuds, I've heard the dsqm panda it's good but mid centric. Very smooth and full in the mids with good detail, but end to end extension is lacking.

People seem to be loving the new nicehck eb2 and the build quality looks really impressive on that, also people are praising it's SQ. It's gonna be $30 when it gets released. Maybe thats an option for you.

I have one coming to me soon so i can personally give you sound impressions if that helps.


----------



## beyermann

seanc6441 said:


> I don't think it would be a challange to equal or beat the pk3 as the quality of earbuds in the budget range continues to improve, sadly i havent heard the pk3 myself so i cannot say which budget bud sounds like it.
> 
> Some stuff you can check out
> 
> ...



which one of these got the most neutral clear sound? is "- Nicehck  DSQM pk2" this one?

http://s.aliexpress.com/JNBZNnAv

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4438655/all

I learned more here.

Apparently they are just yuin pk2 basically? how is it legal that some guy is ripping yuin off? also if it's true that yuin no longer sounds as good as in the past, then these guys are buying the yuins that no longer sell as good as in the past and selling them to you rebranded...


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> i took the red pill. now i got TM9 coming my way


I'm holding out for the K's Titanium Ling thing lol

Hope you enjoy it mate


----------



## wazzupi

Eb2 pt25 to600 i don't know how or what to choose aaarrgghhhh


----------



## seanc6441

beyermann said:


> which one of these got the most neutral clear sound? is "- Nicehck  DSQM pk2" this one?
> 
> http://s.aliexpress.com/JNBZNnAv
> 
> ...



I've no idea what drivers its using I just know that it sounds warm, lush clear mids, soft bass and soft treble.

I wish i had the original pk3 to tell you whats what but i dont.


----------



## seanc6441

wazzupi said:


> Eb2 pt25 to600 i don't know how or what to choose aaarrgghhhh


One of these things is not like the other...


----------



## wazzupi

seanc6441 said:


> One of these things is not like the other...


This i know !!


----------



## beyermann

Ok, if anyone that has the original PK3 can tell me how PANDA and the others in the similar pricerange compare to it, I may be able to decide. This is important because the PK3 was my best earbud ever so its my best reference to know whats up, otherwise im buying blindfolded.


----------



## HungryPanda

wazzupi said:


> Eb2 pt25 to600 i don't know how or what to choose aaarrgghhhh


 get them all


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> get them all


The only logical answer around here


----------



## handwander

wazzupi said:


> Eb2 pt25 to600 i don't know how or what to choose aaarrgghhhh


Try the PT25 and review for everyone.

Don't buy them all stop the cycle of mindless consumerism this forum pushes : )


----------



## Danneq

beyermann said:


> Ok, if anyone that has the original PK3 can tell me how PANDA and the others in the similar pricerange compare to it, I may be able to decide. This is important because the PK3 was my best earbud ever so its my best reference to know whats up, otherwise im buying blindfolded.



PK3 was the best for me as well until I bought PK2 around 2009. Nowadays you can find better earbuds for the same price. The only thing I remember PK2 & PK3 did well was mids. If you want Yuin shells something like the Panda or NiceHCK DIY PK2 are good (I find the NiceHCK PK2 to be better than Yuin PK2).

I sold my Yuins  few years ago. For a long time they were the best but now there are small Chinese earbud makers who make great sounding and cheap earbuds.


----------



## beyermann (Sep 13, 2018)

Danneq said:


> PK3 was the best for me as well until I bought PK2 around 2009. Nowadays you can find better earbuds for the same price. The only thing I remember PK2 & PK3 did well was mids. If you want Yuin shells something like the Panda or NiceHCK DIY PK2 are good (I find the NiceHCK PK2 to be better than Yuin PK2).
> 
> I sold my Yuins  few years ago. For a long time they were the best but now there are small Chinese earbud makers who make great sounding and cheap earbuds.



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...4a16-4360-82fa-90183180813e&priceBeautifyAB=0


This one?

what does the package contain? once again they refuse to add pictures of earpads, case or anything else...

on the feedback pics I saw a this nice case with some pads looks good:







Now I just must decide between this one and the panda pk2s or anything like that in that price range.. I cant decide please help

Also I have the schiit magni 3, can these small earbuds explode if I push it to the limit? i have never tested small earbuds with an amp before.


----------



## HungryPanda

They would get too loud for you before you would blow them


----------



## ClieOS (Sep 13, 2018)

beyermann said:


> But are they as good as pk3 sonically? does DSQM or whatever the brand is doesn't have an actual website so you can buy directly from it?
> 
> I mean with yuin apparently the PK3 doesn't sound as good anymore, so you never know what you are buying anymore, not even from the real website



Even Yuin doesn't have a website that you can buy directly from, yet you still like it, no? In all fairness, Yuin is also a very small DIY'ish earbuds maker, no bigger than any other Chinese brand earbuds you were recommended here. The difference is that you already know about Yuin but not others.

The earbuds landscape is way different from a decade ago when Yuin just appeared on the scene. These days you can find much more capable earbuds maker from China than Yuin.


----------



## seanc6441

beyermann said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...4a16-4360-82fa-90183180813e&priceBeautifyAB=0
> 
> 
> This one?
> ...


If you wanna drive it via amp you would want something much higher impendance which usually cost more. Like the Yinman 600, Toneking TO600 etc


----------



## golov17

@seanc644 search FriggaAudio on FB
Frigga DS1
 
Frigga D1
 
Frigga RE1


----------



## Stewardess2

Hi,

can anyone compare Shozy bk and Rose masya to either Yincrow X6 or T-music v2?

Those are the only earphones I have and I don't know which one I should upgrade to.


----------



## Danneq (Sep 14, 2018)

beyermann said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...4a16-4360-82fa-90183180813e&priceBeautifyAB=0
> 
> 
> This one?
> ...





I bought these (borrowed the picture):






Same case and I got a bunch of foams as well.

I gave them to my wife and she likes them a lot. More than the VE Monk+ she had before. She used to have PK3 a few years ago.

Edit: there are also other great earbuds that use other shells than the type that Yuin uses.

Among the ~$25 earbuds, Moondrop Nameless is one of my favorites. Very natural and smooth sound. If I remember correctly it comes with a small textile bag and not a hard case. There are also a lot of earbuds that use the Sennheiser MX400/500 type shell.


----------



## blackberriesandthinkpads (Sep 14, 2018)

What, new earbud released every nanosecond.

EB2 looks really good, kicking myself for not doing the lucky bag. Had it in my cart 3 times before convincing myself to save funds towards TM9. Looks like it's shell is smaller than Yuin?

Any chance I should wait for the Audio Technica release before pulling the trigger on TM9? Any release date posted?

@Danneq sucks about your TM9. I may end up getting a pair in my hands before customs lets go of yours!


----------



## DAndrew

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> What, new earbud released every nanosecond.
> 
> EB2 looks really good, kicking myself for not doing the lucky bag. Had it in my cart 3 times before convincing myself to save funds towards TM9. Looks like it's shell is smaller than Yuin?
> 
> ...



Release date was posted, iirc 18 OCT? 

If you are willing to pull the trigger on the Audio Technica ( was it 480$? ) then why not go with a custom earbud?


----------



## 40760

Took out the Asura 2.0s today, after almost a year without listening to them. Simply refreshing...


----------



## activatorfly

wazzupi said:


> Eb2 pt25 to600 i don't know how or what to choose aaarrgghhhh


Probably wiser to wait for a PT25 review, rather than risking red mist shooting out of your ears - if they're pants! lol


----------



## dheepak10

Its a double feature for today. Reviews of Airman AHE-150 MMCX and Moonbuds' TOTL Nightingale.

Here's the link to the reviews:
Moonbuds Nightingale
Airman AHE-150


----------



## ClieOS

Mi (Xiaomi) Dual Driver Earphones BRE01JY
Dai-K DK-震(Zhen)
Faaeal Datura X
NiceHCK EB2


----------



## Matarro

I got a Zen Lite a few days ago and I have EB2 on the way. Just like Danneq I am at the mercy of the Swedish post office though, so who knows when I will get it. At least it's nothing expensive, like a TM9. Time to arrange a proxy in Denmark? Do they have a functioning post office? Anyway, this should keep me happy for a while. PT25 looks interesting, I like that format when I'm outdoors or training. If it gets good reviews I think I will get it. I don't want to buy anything more expensive though since I'm going to Tokyo in a while and am likely to buy stuff there.

I will try to remember to share my impressions of the Zen Lite once I've listened more to it. I'm not a good reviewer but there isn't much info on these buds so I'll try anyway.


----------



## kurtextrem

ClieOS said:


> Mi (Xiaomi) Dual Driver Earphones BRE01JY
> Dai-K DK-震(Zhen)
> Faaeal Datura X
> NiceHCK EB2


A new shell type becoming popular?
About the Xiaomi, I've heard it sounds... really bad.


----------



## chinmie

ClieOS said:


> Mi (Xiaomi) Dual Driver Earphones BRE01JY
> Dai-K DK-震(Zhen)
> Faaeal Datura X
> NiceHCK EB2



how's the Dai-K DK Zhen sound? i see it uses ourart like metal shell?


----------



## gazzington

Managed to get an Opus 1 very cheap. Anybody have one of these and know a good bud pairing?


----------



## ClieOS

kurtextrem said:


> A new shell type becoming popular?
> About the Xiaomi, I've heard it sounds... really bad.



I won't say it is very bad, but it is typical of what you can expect from stock earbuds, which is very unremarkable.



chinmie said:


> how's the Dai-K DK Zhen sound? i see it uses ourart like metal shell?



This one is quite unremarkable as well, I'll burn-in and see anything changes, though I won't keep my hope up. It is not a metal shell, but plastic on the front and wood on the back.


----------



## bavinck

gazzington said:


> Managed to get an Opus 1 very cheap. Anybody have one of these and know a good bud pairing?


It's dead neutral, so your bud tuning will shine!


----------



## activatorfly

ClieOS said:


> Mi (Xiaomi) Dual Driver Earphones BRE01JY
> Dai-K DK-震(Zhen)
> Faaeal Datura X
> NiceHCK EB2


- mmm silver EB2....crave! lol


----------



## gazzington

bavinck said:


> It's dead neutral, so your bud tuning will shine!


Brilliant as neutral is what I wanted! How powerful a dap is it?


----------



## 40760

EB2 is out on AE at US$43.99...


----------



## seanc6441

palestofwhite said:


> EB2 is out on AE at US$43.99...


Why was I thinking it was gonna be $30, the fukubukuro is looking like a sweet deal now!


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> Why was I thinking it was gonna be $30, the fukubukuro is looking like a sweet deal now!



I am happy to have it and I love the look of it and the fit as well as the sound.  Maybe will be around $30 during a big sale?  

I just added mine to my list and I had to add the word fukubukuo to the entry


----------



## golov17

palestofwhite said:


> EB2 is out on AE at US$43.99...


2018 NICEHCK EB2 Earbud HIFI Metal Earphone 14.8mm Dynamic Driver Headset NICEHCK Second Flagship Earbud Sound Like NICEHCK EBX 
http://s.aliexpress.com/6JjiIBJf


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> Why was I thinking it was gonna be $30, the fukubukuro is looking like a sweet deal now!


Not really surprised tbh - favourable feedback has obviously resulted in a price hike! However I'm still prepared to wait for release of the (silver) 4-core balanced version!


----------



## 40760

It's quite a bit cheaper if anyone can get them through TB...


----------



## beyermann (Sep 14, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> If you wanna drive it via amp you would want something much higher impendance which usually cost more. Like the Yinman 600, Toneking TO600 etc



Why? I have the magni 3 for my big beyerdynamic headphones and it works fine. I would plug it there too. If it sounds fine, I dont really care abotu the impedance.


----------



## tim0chan

beyermann said:


> Ehh. why? I know people with 600 ohm headphones that say the magni 3 have no problem driving them, why would some little 16 ohm headphones give the magni 3 problems? its designed to work with literally any headphone ever.


he means that if you have something like the magni , you should get something else better that can make full use of the amplification. Just take a leap of faith dude


----------



## beyermann

tim0chan said:


> he means that if you have something like the magni , you should get something else better that can make full use of the amplification. Just take a leap of faith dude


I corrected by editing the post because I realized what he meant.

However, im not buying earbuds because I want to run them on the magni 3, I just have the magni 3, and I might as well plug them there when im on the computer. I just want them to sound good. The PK3 sounded great and it didn't require an amp, my old USB interface made them sound good.


----------



## activatorfly

palestofwhite said:


> It's quite a bit cheaper if anyone can get them through TB...


^^^ if you are a domestic & can understand TB! 
Imo it was a great strategy by Jim to release EB2 as fukubukuro - it certainly created a whirlwind (not a red mist!) lol!


----------



## beyermann

EB2 vs Panda PK2S vs Yuin PK3 vs NICEHCK DIY PK2.....


----------



## mbwilson111

beyermann said:


> EB2 vs Panda PK2S vs Yuin PK3 vs NICEHCK DIY PK2.....



EB2


----------



## j4100

Plugged my Ravens in and only the LH channel was working. A cold shiver ran through me as I guessed I had pulled the wires too hard at the bud. I dug into my travel case for the King Interludes. Same thing! Guess which twat had only pushed the interconnect halfway into the amp...

Reliving Wednesday nights Wooden Shjips gig by playing Dos and new album, V.

Phew!


----------



## beyermann

mbwilson111 said:


> EB2



why? who has the most neutral crystal clean sound with the nicest soundstage? none of that "warm" or "too bright" bull


----------



## mbwilson111

beyermann said:


> why? who has the most neutral crystal clean sound with the nicest soundstage? none of that "warm" or "too bright" bull****



I kind of have a feeling that you will not be satisfied with anything.  I hope I am wrong.


----------



## beyermann

mbwilson111 said:


> I kind of have a feeling that you will not be satisfied with anything.  I hope I am wrong.



Well, I was satisfied with the yuin pk3, so that's that.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 14, 2018)

beyermann said:


> Why? I have the magni 3 for my big beyerdynamic headphones and it works fine. I would plug it there too. If it sounds fine, I dont really care abotu the impedance.


I've personally heard distortion on my pk earbuds when the high gain mode on my V20 was accidentally triggered, i guess if you use low gain it's not a big deal but there's no real advantage to using a 16ohm earbud with a desk amp like there would be with the others I mentioned.

I meant it would be overkill and potentially damaging if you mistakenly had it in high gain. Not that you couldn't do it, maybe iI worded it wrong my bad.


----------



## Carrow

Oh yes. A brief test drive tells me my Topping NX1s can't drive these too well, but I've had that earmarked for selling lately so I'll see how the Fiio A3 fares in comparison. Very comfortable, appreciate @dheepak10's tip advice too!


----------



## beyermann

seanc6441 said:


> I've personally heard distortion on my pk earbuds when the high gain mode on my V20 was accidentally triggered, i guess if you use low gain it's not a big deal but there's no real advantage to using a 16ohm earbud with a desk amp like there would be with the others I mentioned.
> 
> I meant it would be overkill and potentially damaging if you mistakenly had it in high gain. Not that you couldn't do it, maybe iI worded it wrong my bad.



Well, blowing your earphones while wearing them is a valid concern... the magni 3 has a HI and LO mode, so I should use the LO mode when I plug the earbuds just in case I guess, and go back to HI when I use the big 600 ohm cans.

I would just plug earbuds on the USB headphone jack but it's broken so the amp is all I got.


----------



## beyermann

I wish I could get a comparasion between Panda PK2s and EB2 sound wise. Shape wise, I think I find more comfortable the classic Yuin mark than that straight design but mine right now have that generic straight design right now and they are tolerable.


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> EB2


Ditto


----------



## Danneq

beyermann said:


> why? who has the most neutral crystal clean sound with the nicest soundstage? none of that "warm" or "too bright" bull****



I don't have any memory of PK3 being neutral or having good clarity or nice soundstage. PK2 is better in that case. Otherwise there are other options. Moondrop Nameless is far more neutral than PK3 or PK2. But doesn't sound as colored so might appear more "boring".


----------



## beyermann

activatorfly said:


> Ditto


But why


----------



## silverfishla

beyermann said:


> Why? I have the magni 3 for my big beyerdynamic headphones and it works fine. I would plug it there too. If it sounds fine, I dont really care abotu the impedance.


Don’t listen, bad advice.


----------



## activatorfly (Sep 14, 2018)

I'm gonna post my review of EB2 on this forum ok? - as there's no dedicated EB2 page currently. When one has been started, I'll revise & re-post this review - which should allow for additional burn-in.....(btw it's my first review!)


----------



## mbwilson111

activatorfly said:


> I'm gonna post my review of EB2 on this forum ok? - as there's no dedicated EB2 page currently. When one has been started, I'll revise & re-post this review - which should allow for additional burn-in.....(btw it's my first review!)



How do review pages work?  As the first reviewer are you meant to start a review page?


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> How do review pages work?  As the first reviewer are you meant to start a review page?


As it's my first review - I'm not sure haha! - bit of a conundrum! I guess I can always remove it from here if it's a faux pas!


----------



## mbwilson111

no problem putting it here but I just wondered how those review pages that have multiple reviews in them are started.  I know there are people waiting for your review


----------



## beyermann

I want to hear a EB2 review and comparations with the other killers in the price range (PANDA pk2s, yuin pk3, yuin pk2, nicehck pk2 diy......etc)


----------



## activatorfly

beyermann said:


> I want to hear a EB2 review and comparations with the other killers in the price range (PANDA pk2s, yuin pk3, yuin pk2, nicehck pk2 diy......etc)


My review won't include those I'm afraid (I've not listened to my PK2 in over 16 months!) - I'm sure future reviews will cover those comparisons...


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> no problem putting it here but I just wondered how those review pages that have multiple reviews in them are started.  I know there are people waiting for your review


Cool....I've wondered how they're started too - I'll try to start one tomorrow & obvs post the link!


----------



## Danneq

activatorfly said:


> I'm gonna post my review of EB2 on this forum ok? - as there's no dedicated EB2 page currently. When one has been started, I'll revise & re-post this review - which should allow for additional burn-in.....(btw it's my first review!)



Fist you should check if there is an EB2 product page here on Head fi. I have started a few when I could not find an audio item. The last 2 I created were Cypherus CampFred 1 and QFred. No reviews there though...

After that you can write a review and post under that particular item's page.

Here's a list of earbuds featured on Head fi:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/category/earbuds.290/


----------



## Danneq (Sep 14, 2018)

Forgot I also made a page for CAX Black at the same time...

Edit: I made those pages with the old Head fi forum design. I am still a bit lost when it comes to the new design...


----------



## activatorfly

It probably needs some revision...but here goes.....


----------



## activatorfly

Danneq said:


> Fist you should check if there is an EB2 product page here on Head fi. I have started a few when I could not find an audio item. The last 2 I created were Cypherus CampFred 1 and QFred. No reviews there though...
> 
> After that you can write a review and post under that particular item's page.
> 
> ...


I'll put it on here first.....there is no current product page for EB2 - It's too early - plus I guess they were a lucky bag gift etc. Now as they've hit Ali Express, a product page will happen.


----------



## bavinck

gazzington said:


> Brilliant as neutral is what I wanted! How powerful a dap is it?


Reasonably. It should handle any bud you want.


----------



## Danneq (Sep 14, 2018)

activatorfly said:


> I'll put it on here first.....there is no current product page for EB2 - It's too early - plus I guess they were a lucky bag gift etc. Now as they've hit Ali Express, a product page will happen.



Yeah, someone will probably create a page. But it just takes 5-10 minutes or so to create a basic product page. Just a short description and a picture of the earbuds in question. I was hoping for people to follow up on the Cypherus earbud pages I started but it didn't happen. Too few owners, perhaps? I could have written a review myself but I no longer have the time to do that.


----------



## DAndrew

Danneq said:


> Forgot I also made a page for CAX Black at the same time...
> 
> Edit: I made those pages with the old Head fi forum design. I am still a bit lost when it comes to the new design...



Lol, I like the CAX Black "Earbuds do not become more mature sounding than this."


----------



## seanc6441

silverfishla said:


> Don’t listen, bad advice.


It wasn't the advice i was giving he misinterpreted what I said...


----------



## activatorfly (Sep 14, 2018)

*NiceHCK EB2 (sub-flagship earbuds!)*

*Pros*:
Very wide / deep / involving sound-stage.
Excellent resolution & micro detail retrieval (with no sibilance!)
Accurate imaging and layering of instruments.
Analogue/warm/bright tuning - retaining a refined midrange.

*Cons*:
The shells are very small – so donut foam/rubber is required in order to achieve a good seal.
The cable could be produced with a longer length > 1.5m.
Sub-bass presentation could be a tad more forward.


*Build, comfort & fit:*

Build quality of the metal shells is excellent & the silver cable helps to retrieve micro detail, whilst being non-microphonic, tangle free and pliable. (Unlike EBX shell adjustments are not needed.) In-ear the comfort level is awesome - they’re incredibly light – making the burn-in process an absolute breeze! Once a good seal is achieved, bass quantity & resolution increases. A better fit also adds weight to instrumentation…helping to convey a “live” performance feeling to high-resolution recordings. The impending release of a (2.5mm plug) balanced version, should help to further micro detailing, extend 3D holophonics & add more “air” to the sound-stage.


*Sound signature:*

EB2’s sound signature is addictive & tuned to be bright without ever being sharp or brash. They manage to present plenty of micro detail retrieval, alongside a warm and analogue tonality, to convey levels of intimacy only seemingly achieved with more expensive TOtL buds!
Composing and mixing tracks with EB2 buds is a real joy – A wide and deep soundstage is experienced, generating holophonic imagery, which is coupled with accurate layering of instruments - consequently, they completely avoid any feeling of congestion.


*Response to EQ:*

EB2 sound fantastic out of the box with any quality sources, driven by phones or high-res DAP's. They also respond well to being EQ’d across the entire frequency spectrum range: 20 – 23kHz.
– boosting the lower frequency range certainly helps to increase presence of bass & sub-bass.
– boosting midrange / high treble frequencies adds sparkle without succumbing to sibilance!


*Genre/listening preferences:*

These buds especially excel with: electronica, soundscapes and binaural recordings.
Additionally, they seem to handle all genres effortlessly from pop > rock > classical > jazz & especially suit female vocals - hence they are a great all-rounder!

*
Comparisons:*

Moondrop VX-Pro vs EB2

Having similar sized metal housings to EB2 - the VX-Pro are considerably heavier - the extra weight makes them prone to fatigue & falling out. Like the EB2 they have a wide sound-stage -once a good seal is obtained. However they do lack the same level of SQ, clarity and resolving power of the EB2. Because of the weight issue and being prone to sibilance as a consequence of slightly brash forward mids - I stopped using these buds & they're currently being re-cabled for balanced output.

Campfred 1 vs EB2

The CampFreds ooze quality from the jack plug / cable / Y-splitter to the shells. They convey a more intimate experience, coupled with more weight of instrumentation and vocals. The sound-stage is definitely more 3D, airy and holophonic – whilst retaining overall warmth & intimacy. CampFreds are slightly more refined, the EB2 however have more raw energy. Both buds complement each other perfectly for a wide range of genres imo.

*
Conclusions & Verdict:*

It’s testament to the EB2’s sound quality (& flagship brother EBX) - that they can compete with more expensive TOtL buds. They have a very moreish and addictive sound signature that is involving and pulls you in - maximising the listening experience, whilst unveiling previously hidden details.
Bass resolution is accurate and fast, alongside mids that are not extended too far forward into the mix – in order to maintain the refined tonality. Their presentation remains refreshing during continual listening sessions - with no hint of fatigue. In my opinion, JIm at NiceHCK has set a new standard for budget value earbuds…and thus EB2 will always remain a TOtL keeper!!!

· Sound signature: *4.5*/5
· Soundstage: *5*/5
· Micro-details: *5*/5
· Bass: *4.5*/5
· Mids: *4.5*/5
· Treble: *4,5*/5
· Value: *5*/5


----------



## seanc6441

activatorfly said:


> *NiceHCK EB2 (sub-flagship earbuds!)*
> 
> *Pros*:
> Very wide / deep / involving sound-stage.
> ...


Wow... Cannot wait to try these now. High praise there, and exactly the signature I like  warm and bright.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 14, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Wow... Cannot wait to try these now.



Where are yours now?  Any chance they will arrive tomorrow?


----------



## activatorfly (Sep 14, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Wow... Cannot wait to try these now. High praise there, and exactly the signature I like  warm and bright.


Cheers Sean - I'm sure you'll really dig them!.... ^^^ is my first attempt at a review - glad I waited for a new bud tbh.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Where are yours now?  Any chance they will arrive tomorrow?


Hard to say 

 

I never look at those status updates because they aren't always accurate.


----------



## beyermann (Sep 14, 2018)

This my first aliexpress purchase, im in france, I hope customs don't get stopped. 

I wanted it in black but it's sold out it seems.


----------



## mbwilson111

beyermann said:


> This my first aliexpress purchase, im in france, I hope customs don't get stopped.
> 
> I wanted it in black but it's sold out it seems.



Don't worry, I am in the UK and had no such problem.  You will see.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 14, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Hard to say
> 
> 
> 
> I never look at those status updates because they aren't always accurate.



how strange... that does not seem right.. I hope you just suddenly get a surprise delivery

I meant if it has already departed it can't take THAT long to get to your country... is it coming by rowboat?


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> how strange... that does not seem right.. I hope you just suddenly get a surprise delivery


It's happened quite a bit, spontaneous parcels arrive. Kinda fun tbh


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> It's happened quite a bit, spontaneous parcels arrive. Kinda fun tbh


Seems strange to me too...you ordered them well before I did - I was only joining in with the red mist trail of the developing hype train! haha


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> Hard to say
> 
> 
> 
> I never look at those status updates because they aren't always accurate.


Sept 25th...What ! - EB3 will be out by then! ( & iPhone XS Max!) lolz


----------



## doggiemom

gazzington said:


> Hi.  I’m after a dap that plays tidal and Spotify.  I’ve tried hiby r6 and r3 and lets just say they’re not for me.  I’m now considering a LG v30 or another phone.  Any recs?  I usually use earbuds like willsound, blurs, zens etc


I have the R6 as well.  The KANN arrived yesterday:
https://us.astellnkern.com/products/kann
It is charging now, so haven't tried it yet.  It does Tidal, but not offline.  Initially I was looking for a DAP that plays Tidal offline, but couldn't find one besides the R6 and didn't want to go the Android phone route.  I'll use the R6 as a beater at work, etc., so ultimately decided the offline isn't as important.


gazzington said:


> From what I remember, it had a full sound but not as spacious as I'd like. Just wasn't fun to listen to


Just curious, are you using the standard 3.5 headphone jack or the 2.5 balanced output?  I think I prefer the balanced, though in fairness that may be because a lot of my "better" buds are TRRS.

The Campfred White buds also arrived recently.  @Danneq mentioned before that they are similar in sound signature to the CAX Black, which I'd agree with... more "reference" than the CF2 or Zoomfred.  The cable is less rigid than the black, but it is incredibly microphonic.    I suspect it is the coating on the cable - if I rub my finger along it, it sounds like someone is rubbing on my ear.  I guess the White and the Black will both be "sitting on the couch while reading" buds.


----------



## dheepak10

Here's a list of all the buds I have tried (mine and others') listed in my order of preference (price not a factor).

Also, you may find some differences between my testin and order of preference - for example, I've rated AHE-150 4 stars and WillSound MK2 as 4.5 but prefer the former more. MK2 is technically sound, but I find the AHE-150 more fun.

Here's goes:
- Moonbuds Bunting
- Moonbuds Nightingale
- Airman AHE-150
- Willsound MK2
- Moonbuds Crescent
- HiFiBoy Dream 
- V-Friend V-Oldy
- Willsound MK3
- Moonbuds Laze
- Ty Hi-Z650
- Ourart Ti7
- V-Friend V-Master 
- Willsound MK300
- Audio Varna Mera Biru
- Willsound MK1
- Red Demun
- VE Monk Lite 120
- Willsound PK32
- EMX 500
- Edifier H180
- Willsound MX32
- VE Monk Plus 
- Bejo V2
- Mrice E100
- Headroom MS16


----------



## golov17

golov17 said:


> 2018 NICEHCK EB2 Earbud HIFI Metal Earphone 14.8mm Dynamic Driver Headset NICEHCK Second Flagship Earbud Sound Like NICEHCK EBX
> http://s.aliexpress.com/6JjiIBJf


26,99 usd with discount from JimNiceHCK


----------



## doggiemom

dheepak10 said:


> Here's a list of all the buds I have tried (mine and others') listed in my order of preference (price not a factor).


This is very impressive!  I could never, ever, *ever* do this.    Now I'm really curious about Moonbuds.


----------



## chinmie

doggiemom said:


> I have the R6 as well.  The KANN arrived yesterday:
> https://us.astellnkern.com/products/kann
> It is charging now, so haven't tried it yet.  It does Tidal, but not offline.  Initially I was looking for a DAP that plays Tidal offline, but couldn't find one besides the R6 and didn't want to go the Android phone route.  I'll use the R6 as a beater at work, etc., so ultimately decided the offline isn't as important.



what factor you consider that makes you avoid the android phone route? if the phone option is open, you might want to try the bluetooth solution like the Centrance BlueDAC or IFI Xdsd both sound great and can't honestly hear a difference wired or wireless with them. 



doggiemom said:


> The Campfred White buds also arrived recently.  @Danneq mentioned before that they are similar in sound signature to the CAX Black, which I'd agree with... more "reference" than the CF2 or Zoomfred.  The cable is less rigid than the black, but it is incredibly microphonic.    I suspect it is the coating on the cable - if I rub my finger along it, it sounds like someone is rubbing on my ear.  I guess the White and the Black will both be "sitting on the couch while reading" buds.



a shirt clip (or two, if the cable is really troublesome) might help? or if the problem is from the Y split up to the shell, a tape at the shell where the cables come out might do the job


----------



## waynes world

activatorfly said:


> *NiceHCK EB2 (sub-flagship earbuds!)*
> 
> *Pros*:
> Very wide / deep / involving sound-stage.
> ...



So what you're saying is that you don't like them very much? Joking! Thanks for the review. They sound like winners.



dheepak10 said:


> Here's a list of all the buds I have tried (mine and others') listed in my order of preference (price not a factor).
> 
> Also, you may find some differences between my testin and order of preference - for example, I've rated AHE-150 4 stars and WillSound MK2 as 4.5 but prefer the former more. MK2 is technically sound, but I find the AHE-150 more fun.
> 
> ...



I appreciate your ranking - thanks! You still need to get the Svara L (32 ohms). I imagine you'd rank them at least around the MK2 level.


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> what factor you consider that makes you avoid the android phone route? if the phone option is open, you might want to try the bluetooth solution like the Centrance BlueDAC or IFI Xdsd both sound great and can't honestly hear a difference wired or wireless with them.



Hey, what about the Radsone, huh?


----------



## doggiemom

chinmie said:


> what factor you consider that makes you avoid the android phone route? if the phone option is open, you might want to try the bluetooth solution like the Centrance BlueDAC or IFI Xdsd both sound great and can't honestly hear a difference wired or wireless with them.



My phone is provided by work, and unfortunately we are locked into Apple as the apps they've developed for my job are only for iOS.  I went through a period of time of using portable DAC/amps with the CCK, but the CCKs kept breaking and I was paying ~$40 for a new one every 3-4 months.  I do have a couple of Bluetooth amps (Bluewave GET and an Earstudio ES100), but have found that I prefer a separate device for music as I have to use the phone a lot for work stuff.  And in all honesty, I do really enjoy buying gadgets.  



chinmie said:


> a shirt clip (or two, if the cable is really troublesome) might help? or if the problem is from the Y split up to the shell, a tape at the shell where the cables come out might do the job



I'll definitely give that a try (thanks for the suggestion!), but I fear that it may be a property of the coating. It is tough to see in the picture because of my lousy photography (and all the dog hair on my keyboard), but the cable has a clear coating which is quite thick.  A little tap anywhere on the cable is like a tap on the ear.  The coating is before and after the split.  These buds do sound awesome, but I don't think they will work for portable use.

On the bright side, the KANN is fantastic - it pairs really well with the ZoomFred, and is a big step up from the Hiby R6.  Great soundstage and detail, and is just really engaging and musical.


----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> ...
> I appreciate your ranking - thanks! You still need to get the Svara L (32 ohms). I imagine you'd rank them at least around the MK2 level.



The Tracking info for my Svara-L (32Ω), shows that they were in San Francisco on Wednesday.
So, I expect they'll be here in Houston by the first of next week.
Looking forward to hearing them.


----------



## silverfishla

The hype on the EBX (the regular one) is real.  That’s one mighty earbud!  Wowza!
The first three hours were torture, though.  Honestly, closed in sound, crackling, imbalance.  If you don’t believe in burn in, believe it now.  That’s why I hate when people do videos about impressions out of the box!


----------



## DBaldock9

silverfishla said:


> The hype on the EBX (the regular one) is real.  That’s one mighty earbud!  Wowza!
> The first three hours were torture, though.  Honestly, closed in sound, crackling, imbalance.  If you don’t believe in burn in, believe it now.  That’s why I hate when people do videos about impressions out of the box!



For my ears, using a donut foam over a full foam on the EBX, is more comfortable and provides a good seal for better Bass response.


----------



## snip3r77

golov17 said:


> 26,99 usd with discount from JimNiceHCK


Hmm anyone compared to Willsound haha


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Hey, what about the Radsone, huh?



@doggiemom already has the ES100, and as much as i love the ES100 (an awesome, awesome piece of gear and support) i don't think it is fair fight , the Bluedac and Xdsd is more of a match. i use them strictly for home use though, for traveling i prefer the ES100 any day


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> @doggiemom already has the ES100, and as much as i love the ES100 (an awesome, awesome piece of gear and support) i don't think it is fair fight , the Bluedac and Xdsd is more of a match. i use them strictly for home use though, for traveling i prefer the ES100 any day



Right. I may have to break down and get me a real dac for my desktop one of these days!


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Right. I may have to break down and get me a real dac for my desktop one of these days!



how's your zuperdac compared to the ES100? i rarely use any of my buds stationary on my workdesk, i often move around  that's why i like bluetooth solution so much


----------



## golov17

Somebody? https://www.buysmartjapan.com/en/products/27357687-ATH-CM2000Ti


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> Somebody? https://www.buysmartjapan.com/en/products/27357687-ATH-CM2000Ti



Looking at you, mate.


----------



## golov17

ClieOS said:


> Looking at you, mate.


cm707 were very disappointing ... I would like to first wait for some reviews on them .. the price is high, after all ..


----------



## Danneq (Sep 15, 2018)

dheepak10 said:


> Here's a list of all the buds I have tried (mine and others') listed in my order of preference (price not a factor).
> 
> Also, you may find some differences between my testin and order of preference - for example, I've rated AHE-150 4 stars and WillSound MK2 as 4.5 but prefer the former more. MK2 is technically sound, but I find the AHE-150 more fun.
> 
> ...




Cool!


For fun I went through all the earbuds I have owned through the years, I think I included everything, and made in a list in my profile page.

80 different earbuds, excluding spare pairs, have been sold or given away through the years.

Right now I try to cut down my collection even further, aiming toward 10 pairs (I currently own 17 pair and just sold my vintage Aiwa HP D9 + NiceHCK Graphene as a bonus).

That means 97 different models. Blox TM9 is on the way (hopefully not lost) and I "accidentally" signed up for the Simphonio Dragon 2+ on Massdrop for $199.99. Even if customs and import taxes exceed $50 it will still be cheaper than buying them at regular price.

So with those two I'll only be 1 away from 100 different earbuds through the years! And in the last few years I do not buy everything released like I did 4-5 years ago.  (I still think @golov17  and @ClieOS  beat me by miles, you guys must be close to 150 pairs of earbuds!)

Who said that the earbud market is dead?


I am not sure if I could rank all of my earbuds through the years. I just stick to a top 10 of the ones I currently own. The earbuds I sell are most often ones I do not like. Sometimes I can sell earbuds that I like but do not use much. In the case of vintage earbuds I sold them to get money to buy new earbuds.


----------



## golov17

cant dont give up .. it was too interesting, for example, how sounds some radiobuds..


----------



## RobinFood

golov17 said:


> cm707 were very disappointing ... I would like to first wait for some reviews on them .. the price is high, after all ..



It's not out yet though. It comes out on October 19th. 
I can't go the store that weekend, but I intend to test it out on the 27th of October, I should have some free time to pop by the store then.
I'm not holding my breathe either though, I don't see what they are bringing that's new to the earbud world except slick removable cables...
It probably has the Audio Technica house sound, a Japanese neutral with extended high-mids for squeaky J-pop female vocals.


----------



## golov17

RobinFood said:


> I'm not holding my breathe either though, I don't see what they are bringing that's new to the earbud world except slick removable cables...


 DLC diaphragm


----------



## activatorfly

golov17 said:


> cm707 were very disappointing ... I would like to first wait for some reviews on them .. the price is high, after all ..


...they kind of look old hat to me.....


----------



## ClieOS

Danneq said:


> (I still think @golov17  and @ClieOS  beat me by miles, you guys must be close to 150 pairs of earbuds!)



You underestimated me, try 220+, and I still have everyone of them.  I am crazy that way.


----------



## Zerohour88 (Sep 15, 2018)

activatorfly said:


> ^^^ if you are a domestic & can understand TB!
> Imo it was a great strategy by Jim to release EB2 as fukubukuro - it certainly created a whirlwind (not a red mist!) lol!



you don't really need to be domestic to buy from TB, I've spent thousands there using agents to purchase for me. A higher fee than the usual TB site purchaser like entaobao, but I like having an agent to help me liaise with the seller in case of problems.

though in the case for the EB2, doesn't really matter since there's the HF/FB discount now and get them even cheaper on ali than from TB.


----------



## mochill

golov17 said:


> Somebody? https://www.buysmartjapan.com/en/products/27357687-ATH-CM2000Ti


Too rich for my blood


----------



## beyermann

golov17 said:


> Somebody? https://www.buysmartjapan.com/en/products/27357687-ATH-CM2000Ti



I would like to hear the difference between this and say EB2. I doubt the high price is justified, that is insane for some earbuds


----------



## beyermann

activatorfly said:


>



How do you guys think the EB2 looks better, silver or black? I was able to cancel my order yesterday, luckily because the black color is back but even better: there is a 25% discount going on. I just have to decide on the color.  I think silver looks better because the cable is silver too and the black looks kinda cheap but I havent seen it in real life so I dont know.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 15, 2018)

beyermann said:


> I would like to hear the difference between this and say EB2. I doubt the high price is justified, that is insane for some earbuds





beyermann said:


> I would like to hear the difference between this and say EB2. I doubt the high price is justified, that is insane for some earbuds


Not unlike comparing the HD6XX/HD58X to say the HD800. Is the extra ~$600 justified? Up to the listener and how much you value the small details I guess.

Not saying this particular bud will live up to its TOTL price but in general the case is how much you value small improvements all round.

Hence why I'll probably be buying the new $400+ K's bud in 2 months


----------



## RobinFood

golov17 said:


> DLC diaphragm



What is a DLC diaphragm and how will it contribute to the sound? I only know of DLC from video games (download content), and it is not usually great


----------



## seanc6441

RobinFood said:


> What is a DLC diaphragm and how will it contribute to the sound? I only know of DLC from video games (download content), and it is not usually great


You pay the small price of $26.99 to unlock extra frequencies 

In seriousness though I see that it's an abbreviation for diamond-like carbon.


----------



## mbwilson111

beyermann said:


> How do you guys think the EB2 looks better, silver or black? I was able to cancel my order yesterday, luckily because the black color is back but even better: there is a 25% discount going on. I just have to decide on the color.  I think silver looks better because the cable is silver too and the black looks kinda cheap but I havent seen it in real life so I dont know.



The black is beautiful in real life and I prefer how the blue and red bands contrast with the stems as opposed to the silver. Also I have black foams on it anyway


----------



## mbwilson111

ClieOS said:


> You underestimated me, try 220+, and I still have everyone of them.  I am crazy that way.



If someone asked you to locate a particular bud - any bud, would you be able to do so in less than 5 minutes?

I would love to see a photo of your storage system... I assume you have an entire room set aside for them  Maybe one with a secret door...


----------



## dheepak10

doggiemom said:


> This is very impressive!  I could never, ever, *ever* do this.    Now I'm really curious about Moonbuds.


Only one way to kill curiosity 



waynes world said:


> Appreciate your ranking - thanks! You still need to get the Svara L (32 ohms). I imagine you'd rank them at least around the MK2 level.


Will keep that in my wishlist for now 



Danneq said:


> Cool!
> 
> 
> For fun I went through all the earbuds I have owned through the years, I think I included everything, and made in a list in my profile page.
> ...


I guess anyone who owns more than 20 should list their top five


----------



## beyermann

Ok I will go with black only because it reminds me of the yuin pk3 more


----------



## golov17

http://blog.livedoor.jp/headphone_metal/archives/52320906.html


----------



## activatorfly

beyermann said:


> How do you guys think the EB2 looks better, silver or black? I was able to cancel my order yesterday, luckily because the black color is back but even better: there is a 25% discount going on. I just have to decide on the color.  I think silver looks better because the cable is silver too and the black looks kinda cheap but I havent seen it in real life so I dont know.


Blue


----------



## mbwilson111

activatorfly said:


> Blue



Red


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> The black is beautiful in real life and I prefer how the blue and red bands contrast with the stems as opposed to the silver. Also I have black foams on it anyway


Great pics! ...much better than mine! - as a photographer - maybe I need to sort out my lighting conditions! lol


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> Red


Purple....Prince styleee!!!


----------



## beyermann

activatorfly said:


> Purple....Prince styleee!!!


are you guys trolling? i only see black and silver


----------



## 40760

beyermann said:


> are you guys trolling? i only see black and silver


----------



## ClieOS

mbwilson111 said:


> If someone asked you to locate a particular bud - any bud, would you be able to do so in less than 5 minutes?
> 
> I would love to see a photo of your storage system... I assume you have an entire room set aside for them  Maybe one with a secret door...



Most earbuds I can locate in a few minute, quite a few I can locate in seconds. But some of the more obscure one I have not touched for months might need a good 10~15 minutes. Most of them have their own case / box with label on top, so finding them is not too difficult. My room is currently at its messy stage, so forgive me for not want to showcase it. Don't forget I also have close to 400 or so IEM.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Sep 15, 2018)

Kind of upset I didn't get into the FUKUBUKAROO deal, but I did get the EBX for $78 during the sale and I gotta say these things are DOPE! Still experimenting with foams, but not really finding them too finicky. No foams is to small, double donuts was too thick and right now it seems single donuts are good. Going to try the rubbers and then rubber/foam mixture.

Mids though...damn.
Space and imaging!

Happy AF with these things.

Currently using with Cayin N5 in High Gain. :LOVE:


----------



## mbwilson111

ClieOS said:


> Most earbuds I can locate in a few minute, quite a few I can locate in seconds. But some of the more obscure one I have not touched for months might need a good 10~15 minutes. Most of them have their own case / box with label on top, so finding them is not too difficult. My room is currently at its messy stage, so forgive me for not want to showcase it. Don't forget I also have close to 400 or so IEM.



I knew you had iems as well but I never counted the items in your list.  Two headfiers here... and many full sized headphones in addition to iems and buds.   Everything is always in a messy stage lately.  I am starting to think this is not normal... lol.

I should count mine.. .and his... afraid to total up the cost...


----------



## mbwilson111

beyermann said:


> are you guys trolling? i only see black and silver


 
LOL... joking is not trolling  These are requests in case the bud makers are reading this


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 15, 2018)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Kind of upset I didn't get into the FUKUBUKAROO deal, but I did get the EBX for $78 during the sale and I gotta say these things are DOPE! Still experimenting with foams, but not really finding them too finicky. No foams is to small, double donuts was too thick and right now it seems single donuts are good. Going to try the rubbers and then rubber/foam mixture.
> 
> Mids though...damn.
> Space and imaging!
> ...



Don't worry.. you can still get the Fukubukuro... now available as NiceHCK EB2.   Headfi discount... total cost $26.99 so only a few dollars more.  Not sure how you claim the discount though.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...cond-Flagship-Earbud/1825606_32917468583.html


----------



## BadReligionPunk

16 headphones
19 IEMs
4 earbuds

1 crazy ass stinkeye from wife...


----------



## gattari

mbwilson111 said:


> Don't worry.. you can still get the Fukubukuro... now available as NiceHCK EB2.   Headfi discount... total cost $26.99 so only a few dollars more.  Not sure how you claim the discount though.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...583.htmltransAbTest=ae803_1&priceBeautifyAB=0


Link fail


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> LOL... joking is not trolling  These are requests in case the bud makers are reading this


Totes !!!! ...plus can I order - graffiti inspired / customised Basquiat-style: EB2 shells please? Ta very much!


----------



## Danneq

mbwilson111 said:


> I knew you had iems as well but I never counted the items in your list.  Two headfiers here... and many full sized headphones in addition to iems and buds.   *Everything is always in a messy stage lately*.  I am starting to think this is not normal... lol.
> 
> I should count mine.. .and his... afraid to total up the cost...




That's why I cull my earbud herd once in a while...


----------



## activatorfly

gattari said:


> Link fail


In the words of Clint Eastwood....."A Fistful Of Hollers"


----------



## activatorfly

Danneq said:


> That's why I cull my earbud herd once in a while...


"The Culling Is Coming" ....you need a good SEAL first though! hehe


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 15, 2018)

gattari said:


> Link fail



Thanks... fixed it.  I made a mistake when I deleted the extra redirect stuff from the link.  We are required to do so... everything after the .html

well that is just weird... it still failed after I did it correctly.. so now it is in as the whole messy link that we are not supposed to do

let me try the shortened one here..it works if I paste it in my address bar..

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...cond-Flagship-Earbud/1825606_32917468583.html

ok.. links working now but someone else will have to explain how to get the discount


----------



## activatorfly

beyermann said:


> are you guys trolling? i only see black and silver


Purple reign....purple reign!

....."It's only rock and troll....but I like it!"


----------



## chinmie

had a mini meet with my friends, tested the TM9. I'm canceling my order, i don't think the sound fits for my taste


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> had a mini meet with my friends, tested the TM9. I'm canceling my order, i don't think the sound fits for my taste



Wow.. that is really good that you were able to hear it first.   That is too much money to waste.


----------



## 40760

chinmie said:


> had a mini meet with my friends, tested the TM9. I'm canceling my order, i don't think the sound fits for my taste



That's big coming from you... You might even the be first to be in that camp...

Care to share your thoughts about the TM9? What you like or you don't like about it?


----------



## DAndrew

Anyone here with both the regular and pro version of the ZoomFred?


----------



## activatorfly

chinmie said:


> had a mini meet with my friends, tested the TM9. I'm canceling my order, i don't think the sound fits for my taste


Thanks...TM9 is high on my wish-list....think I'll just have to save for the ZoomFred Pro now - my friend has them & says they're totally endgame - so no more chi-fi red-mist dragon chasin' for him!


----------



## golov17

mbwilson111 said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...cond-Flagship-Earbud/1825606_32917468583.html
> 
> ok.. links working now but someone else will have to explain how to get the discount


1. buy now 
2. use another payment metod 
3. cancel, Item for status waiting payment ... waiting ... price change. pay, ready


----------



## DAndrew

activatorfly said:


> Thanks...TM9 is high on my wish-list....think I'll just have to save for the ZoomFred Pro now - my friend has them & says they're totally endgame - so no more chi-fi red-mist dragon chasin' for him!



Does he have the regular version as well by chance?


----------



## Kashtan

seanc6441 said:


> The former is a newer variant to compete with the zen black i guess, the latter i have never heard of.
> 
> BTW the Zen white or Black use the same driver as the $150 Zen 2.0. They use expensive hi end cables which is the difference and why they are so pricey.
> 
> But really whats this frigga bud can i see a link to it? XD


https://www.facebook.com/commerce/products/1323843901007315/


----------



## activatorfly

DAndrew said:


> Does he have the regular version as well by chance?


No totally bypassed it...cost an extra $100 though!


----------



## doggiemom

waynes world said:


> Right. I may have to break down and get me a real dac for my desktop one of these days!


Do it!  Do it!    There are so many choices now even under the $100 price point...... or you could go for broke and get the Chord Dave at $12k.  


ClieOS said:


> Most earbuds I can locate in a few minute, quite a few I can locate in seconds. But some of the more obscure one I have not touched for months might need a good 10~15 minutes. Most of them have their own case / box with label on top, so finding them is not too difficult. My room is currently at its messy stage, so forgive me for not want to showcase it. Don't forget I also have close to 400 or so IEM.


I have a bunch of divided cases that most of my buds and IEMs are in.  (Except for those that come in special cases).  Each case is anal-retentively labeled with a label maker.  I have a spreadsheet with all my earbuds as well as what case they are in.


----------



## golov17

just stickers


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> Wow.. that is really good that you were able to hear it first.   That is too much money to waste.



the benefit of having an earbud-crazy group of friends 



palestofwhite said:


> That's big coming from you... You might even the be first to be in that camp...
> 
> Care to share your thoughts about the TM9? What you like or you don't like about it?





activatorfly said:


> Thanks...TM9 is high on my wish-list....think I'll just have to save for the ZoomFred Pro now - my friend has them & says they're totally endgame - so no more chi-fi red-mist dragon chasin' for him!



don't get me wrong, the TM9 is a TOTL level earbud, so it's not bad in any means, just not my cup of tea. the TM9 has a very laidback, neutral and relaxed sound, big soundstage, great separation.. but it's too laidback for me and the midbass is too wooly for my taste. i personally still prefer the Liebesleid and SWD2+ sound presentation.

for similar sound to the TM9, i already have the Zen 2 and the Puresounds PS100-500, and i prefer them both

again, this is just a matter of preference


----------



## kw8910

The hype is real, these fukubukuros are absolute winners at this price (even at $40, crazy at $20). Impressive open soundstage with nice treble extension and, despite the small driver size, decent bass that gets deeper after some burn-in. 

Jim has every right to be proud of these, they’re better than the panda pk2 by a good margin (both in terms of sound quality and signature) and perfect to use as daily drivers.


----------



## Danneq

chinmie said:


> don't get me wrong, the TM9 is a TOTL level earbud, so it's not bad in any means, just not my cup of tea. the TM9 has a very laidback, neutral and relaxed sound, big soundstage, great separation.. but it's too laidback for me and the midbass is too wooly for my taste. i personally still prefer the Liebesleid and SWD2+ sound presentation.
> 
> for similar sound to the TM9, i already have the Zen 2 and the Puresounds PS100-500, and i prefer them both
> 
> again, this is just a matter of preference




Sounds like we are polar opposites in sound preference. I'm selling my Liebesleid since I find the focus on upper mids and highs to take focus from the music itself. I prefer to "sink into" the music. Cypherus earbuds do exactly that and Blox are also very good at that. I did join the SWD2+ Massdrop. Let's see how I like them once (if?) I receive them...

BTW, I really do not care much for Zen 2. It's unnaturally dark and veiled sounding for my tastes.


----------



## chinmie

Danneq said:


> Sounds like we are polar opposites in sound preference. I'm selling my Liebesleid since I find the focus on upper mids and highs to take focus from the music itself. I prefer to "sink into" the music. Cypherus earbuds do exactly that and Blox are also very good at that. I did join the SWD2+ Massdrop. Let's see how I like them once (if?) I receive them...
> 
> BTW, I really do not care much for Zen 2. It's unnaturally dark and veiled sounding for my tastes.



i guess so. when i listen to music, i want to really listen to it, hearing every bits and pieces of the tracks, and finding unintentional quirks and recording mistakes that makes me connect more to the musicians and the recording process, as i do like to record a lot when i had the time then. also my time on listening to music is a bit limited, so i like to make every session counts.

the zen 2 is dark sounding and i only like them with monk type foams or no foams at all..but that is a pleasant kind of dark sound to me. not enough details for me, but it is my go to buds when i feel like it.

compared to the TM9, i like the B200 presentation much more. although SQ wise the TM9 still wins.


----------



## HungryPanda

Goddam my Linsoul BLD 150 ohm earbuds have been caught by customs


----------



## wazzupi

HungryPanda said:


> Goddam my Linsoul BLD 150 ohm earbuds have been caught by customs


Is there cocaine in em ?


----------



## mbwilson111

wazzupi said:


> Is there cocaine in em ?



Will have to pay a few pound to find out...


----------



## activatorfly

kw8910 said:


> The hype is real, these fukubukuros are absolute winners at this price (even at $40, crazy at $20). Impressive open soundstage with nice treble extension and, despite the small driver size, decent bass that gets deeper after some burn-in.
> 
> Jim has every right to be proud of these, they’re better than the panda pk2 by a good margin (both in terms of sound quality and signature) and perfect to use as daily drivers.


Seconded....


----------



## activatorfly

Danneq said:


> Sounds like we are polar opposites in sound preference. I'm selling my Liebesleid since I find the focus on upper mids and highs to take focus from the music itself. I prefer to "sink into" the music. Cypherus earbuds do exactly that and Blox are also very good at that. I did join the SWD2+ Massdrop. Let's see how I like them once (if?) I receive them...
> 
> BTW, I really do not care much for Zen 2. It's unnaturally dark and veiled sounding for my tastes.


It's either TM9 or ZFP for me definitely!


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> Will have to pay a few pound to find out...


A few pounds of what???


----------



## mbwilson111

activatorfly said:


> A few pounds of what???



customs fees


----------



## activatorfly

chinmie said:


> i guess so. when i listen to music, i want to really listen to it, hearing every bits and pieces of the tracks, and finding unintentional quirks and recording mistakes that makes me connect more to the musicians and the recording process, as i do like to record a lot when i had the time then. also my time on listening to music is a bit limited, so i like to make every session counts.
> 
> the zen 2 is dark sounding and i only like them with monk type foams or no foams at all..but that is a pleasant kind of dark sound to me. not enough details for me, but it is my go to buds when i feel like it.
> 
> compared to the TM9, i like the B200 presentation much more. although SQ wise the TM9 still wins.


Thanks! ...TM9 back in the game! lol


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> customs fees


I know...I was just trying to continue the drugs reference - i.e. pounds also = weight   lolol


----------



## mbwilson111

I know... but we don't want to get in trouble in here again.


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> I know... but we don't want to get in trouble in here again.


...I won't ask....


----------



## mbwilson111

activatorfly said:


> ...I won't ask....


things get deleted when they are too off topic... or if people fight etc...


----------



## wazzupi

mbwilson111 said:


> Will have to pay a few pound to find out...


Lol


----------



## bavinck

Okay people, the TM9 are special......


----------



## BadReligionPunk

EBX + Metal + Female Vocals = 






Hard to believe that there are better buds out there. I'm 5 hours into a nonstop listening session and my ears feel fine.


----------



## Matarro

activatorfly said:


> It's either TM9 or ZFP for me definitely!


Sorry, but what's ZFP?


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> things get deleted when they are too off topic... or if people fight etc...



How DARE YOU sat that?


----------



## activatorfly

Matarro said:


> Sorry, but what's ZFP?


ZoomFred Pro


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 15, 2018)

@chinmie

I guess we both like brighter treble, but you prefer neutral bass and mids right?. I prefer a more musical tuning of punchy but deep bass, neutral-ish mids but a slight emphasis at 4-6khz for some shimmer/energy to electric guitar. Then for treble I'll take sparkle and extension over neutrality anyday, as long as it's not sharp. Nothing sounds better than treble that kind of sparkles in your ear on the edge of too much but just held back enough not to sound sharp and painful.

K's have the treble I like extended and smooth but with a focus on a brighter tilt, the bass is quite powerful but with thinner foams it has that punchy-deep but tight quality I look for. The mids are smooth and i would say not exactly neutral but with a sweet and fairly realistic portrayal of vocals with clarity over an overly thick-warm presentation.


----------



## subwoof3r

*EB2* on my way !!  will do a compare with EBX for my EB2 review


----------



## Matarro

activatorfly said:


> ZoomFred Pro


Ah, thanks!


----------



## activatorfly

Matarro said:


> Ah, thanks!


No worries.


----------



## chinmie

activatorfly said:


> It's either TM9 or ZFP for me definitely!



from the chit-chat I had with my friends yesterday, the zoomfred came to mind, and from the conclusion the TM9 is the better deal. i also finally got a chance to try the Blur choco yesterday


----------



## snip3r77

kw8910 said:


> The hype is real, these fukubukuros are absolute winners at this price (even at $40, crazy at $20). Impressive open soundstage with nice treble extension and, despite the small driver size, decent bass that gets deeper after some burn-in.
> 
> Jim has every right to be proud of these, they’re better than the panda pk2 by a good margin (both in terms of sound quality and signature) and perfect to use as daily drivers.



How are these compared to willsounds


----------



## activatorfly

snip3r77 said:


> How are these compared to willsounds


"They amaze on a daily basis".....can WS live up to such a strapline?


----------



## activatorfly

chinmie said:


> from the chit-chat I had with my friends yesterday, the zoomfred came to mind, and from the conclusion the TM9 is the better deal. i also finally got a chance to try the Blur choco yesterday


Think you might be right!


----------



## rkw

golov17 said:


> Somebody? https://www.buysmartjapan.com/en/products/27357687-ATH-CM2000Ti


It is part of a new line of premium headphones from Audio Technica featuring new drivers and titanium bodies. I would be more interested if A-T had produced some great earbuds recently, but they've been out of the game for awhile and it's harder to judge what to expect.






The prices for these are $1330, $770, $480


----------



## snip3r77

activatorfly said:


> "They amaze on a daily basis".....can WS live up to such a strapline?



Need someone to Pow Wow both


----------



## ClieOS

rkw said:


> I would be more interested if A-T had produced some great earbuds recently, but they've been out of the game for awhile and it's harder to judge what to expect.



Their last attempts of earbuds on CM707 and C999 are just very poor, hardly beating some of the more popular sub$15 budget earbuds we discussed here. Then they come out with this $480 earbud which sorry to say I too don't have much faith in. It will need to be exceptionally good sounding or else it will completely ruin AT reputation among earbuds users.


----------



## golov17

Btw, recently I spend a lot of time combining Penon bs1 with various dap and I like it more and more .. do not underestimate them..


----------



## seanc6441

golov17 said:


> Btw, recently I spend a lot of time combining Penon bs1 with various dap and I like it more and more .. do not underestimate them..


I've sanded down the plastic on the shell more and finally it's comfortable for me. Next I'm gonna de-solder the plug and unbraid the cable to remove the metal cable cinch and about an inch off the cable to shave off some weight.

They are worth the trouble, amazing mids detail and smoothness. Imaging is so precise. Still 100% recommend some EQ in the sub bass for the best experience but they can handle it well.

I'll post a few pics when I'm done the modifications.


----------



## kw8910

snip3r77 said:


> How are these compared to willsounds



Eb2 and willsounds (4 core braided versions) are very close. At the moment, I’ll give the edge to eb2 for it’s spacious yet natural soundstage. It’s most similar to my pk32 overall with deeper bass. Comfort level is also the same as with pk shells.


----------



## capnjack (Sep 16, 2018)

chinmie said:


> from the chit-chat I had with my friends yesterday, the zoomfred came to mind, and from the conclusion the TM9 is the better deal. i also finally got a chance to try the Blur choco yesterday


So how did the Blurs stack up? I have the 150ohm White Chocolate - Wong’s “bass-head audiophile” bud. I wouldn’t say that it was quite “bass-head” but it does have enough rumble and thump for me.


----------



## jrazmar (Sep 16, 2018)

chinmie said:


> had a mini meet with my friends, tested the TM9. I'm canceling my order, i don't think the sound fits for my taste



I'm interested with the TM9 but I love the Liebesleid sound. Just curious what specifically made you cancelled your Blox order? Does the TM9 have the ultra detail prowess and ultra clear and clean treble of the Liebesleid? How about the bass and soundstage?


----------



## 40760

kw8910 said:


> Eb2 and willsounds (4 core braided versions) are very close. At the moment, I’ll give the edge to eb2 for it’s spacious yet natural soundstage. It’s most similar to my pk32 overall with deeper bass. Comfort level is also the same as with pk shells.



In that case I'll have to get one myself to try...


----------



## stimuz

What would you guys consider the big brother of the EMX500 to be?


----------



## golov17

stimuz said:


> What would you guys consider the big brother of the EMX500 to be?


VE Zen1.0


----------



## golov17

ClieOS said:


> I have one of their earlier flagship model, the ESEP-01B (*was Extraordinary Sound ESP-01B)  The BL model is supposed to be the low impedance model. The maker of this earbuds is quite a well-known cable maker in China. The ESP-01B that I have however has such a thick and stiff cable that it is almost completely useless once you move around, and SQ isn't that impressive to compensate for such an obvious flaw.


This?


----------



## chinmie

capnjack said:


> So how did the Blurs stack up? I have the 150ohm White Chocolate - Wong’s “bass-head audiophile” bud. I wouldn’t say that it was quite “bass-head” but it does have enough rumble and thump for me.



to be frank this is the only blur that i have tried, and it is really underwhelming for me. don't like it at all. in my circle of friends, they have tried the blur and cypherus (i myself only tried the camfred, camfred 2,and the Qfred) , none of them really favors those. 



jrazmar said:


> I'm interested with the TM9 but I love the Liebesleid sound. Just curious what specifically made you cancelled your Blox order? Does the TM9 have the ultra detail prowess and ultra clear and clean treble of the Liebesleid? How about the bass and soundstage?



it's just not my preferred sound, too mellow on it's attack, not engaging enough for me. it reminded me of the TY650. and after testing them for 30 minutes i still didn't get wow-ed by it. also the thing that seals it is the midbass boom that is too present to me. that midbass boom is also present in the Diomnes, and i also didn't like the Diomnes because of that. 

no, the Liebesleid still rules on clear and revealing mids/treble. only the Mojito can rival that (and the SWD2+ to some extend). the TM9 is more like the Zen 2 or the Diomnes. it is not veiled by any means, but not ultra revealing

the TM9 soundstage is like sitting in a really spacious room, while the Liebesleid is like listening in an open space concert. 



stimuz said:


> What would you guys consider the big brother of the EMX500 to be?



the Willsound MK2


----------



## DAndrew

chinmie said:


> to be frank this is the only blur that i have tried, and it is really underwhelming for me. don't like it at all. in my circle of friends, they have tried the blur and cypherus (i myself only tried the camfred, camfred 2,and the Qfred) , none of them really favors those.



By none of them do you also mean the Cypherus stuff? What's your opinion on the CampFred 2? How does it compare to the Blur?

EDIT: Got my own question out of the quote....


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> Don't worry.. you can still get the Fukubukuro... now available as NiceHCK EB2.   Headfi discount... total cost $26.99 so only a few dollars more.  Not sure how you claim the discount though.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...cond-Flagship-Earbud/1825606_32917468583.html





kw8910 said:


> Eb2 and willsounds (4 core braided versions) are very close. At the moment, I’ll give the edge to eb2 for it’s spacious yet natural soundstage. It’s most similar to my pk32 overall with deeper bass. Comfort level is also the same as with pk shells.


- hence why I'm waiting for the 4-core balanced version of EB2.


----------



## Danneq

I do hear a slight midbass bump in my Diomnes Lv2 but still like 'em a lot. The same with QFred which does not have too deep sub bass. I do not hear it in CampFred, CampFred 2 or ZoomFred, though. On all of them sub bass is quite good and overall bass is quite clean textured.

Sub bass on Liebesleid is better than on Shozy Stardust but still quite weak. Liebesleid has got it main focus on upper mids and highs. Crystal clarity but not an overall balanced sound and average soundstage, not that much bigger than on the two CampFreds. ZoomFred's soundstage is huge in comparison (no 3 in my soundstage list after Aiwa HP D9 and Cypherus Red Dragon). I look forward to hearing TM9 since it sounds like it's right up my alley.


----------



## activatorfly

chinmie said:


> to be frank this is the only blur that i have tried, and it is really underwhelming for me. don't like it at all. in my circle of friends, they have tried the blur and cypherus (i myself only tried the camfred, camfred 2,and the Qfred) , none of them really favors those.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wonder if the balanced version is more revealing? - the midbass response does sound concerning tbh. Soundstage is uber important to me -  it's been mentioned that the TM9 are extremely wide & deep - wish I could A/B them with Liebesleid, in order to make an informed choice!


----------



## golov17

Danneq said:


> I look forward to hearing TM9 since it sounds like it's right up my alley.


Same here ...


----------



## activatorfly

Danneq said:


> I do hear a slight midbass bump in my Diomnes Lv2 but still like 'em a lot. The same with QFred which does not have too deep sub bass. I do not hear it in CampFred, CampFred 2 or ZoomFred, though. On all of them sub bass is quite good and overall bass is quite clean textured.
> 
> Sub bass on Liebesleid is better than on Shozy Stardust but still quite weak. Liebesleid has got it main focus on upper mids and highs. Crystal clarity but not an overall balanced sound and average soundstage, not that much bigger than on the two CampFreds. ZoomFred's soundstage is huge in comparison (no 3 in my soundstage list after Aiwa HP D9 and Cypherus Red Dragon). I look forward to hearing TM9 since it sounds like it's right up my alley.


Looking forward to your comparison - It'll help with the decision of whether to pull the trigger on TM9 or ZoomFred Pro.


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> This?



Not this one. This is the high impedance limited edition that released at a later time. Mine is the original low impedance version/


----------



## chinmie

activatorfly said:


> I wonder if the balanced version is more revealing? - the midbass response does sound concerning tbh. Soundstage is uber important to me -  it's been mentioned that the TM9 are extremely wide & deep - wish I could A/B them with Liebesleid, in order to make an informed choice!



that all depends on your gear really..on some system the SE side is optimized enough that the only difference with the balanced is down to output power, no difference on staging, etc.

midbass is personal niggle for me. not saying the TM9 midbass is bad in any way, because none of  my friends found them distracting (as danneq also said on the diomnes) 

soundstage of the TM9 is large and have a good depth. but it's like a large closed headphone. i just happen to prefer the airy soundstage of the Liebesleid and SWD2+ more


----------



## tim0chan

Anyone can recommend the earbud equivalent of the HD650?


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> to be frank this is the only blur that i have tried, and it is really underwhelming for me. don't like it at all. in my circle of friends, they have tried the blur and cypherus (i myself only tried the camfred, camfred 2,and the Qfred) , none of them really favors those.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Have you heard the Black Ling or Poseidon? How do you feel about it's signature if so?


----------



## nihontoman

Does any earbud have a subbase extension or would that be too much to wish for? I have faaeal 64 ohm version and they are very good in terms of timbre but suffer with extension  is there anything that would provide with good sound with subbase?


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Have you heard the Black Ling or Poseidon? How do you feel about it's signature if so?



i haven't heard the black ling, hopefully soon because my friend is ordering it. I've heard the silver ling and poseidon.

the poseidon is a a higher level K's samsara. really similar sounding but better. it's darker sounding though than the samsara


----------



## seanc6441

nihontoman said:


> Does any earbud have a subbase extension or would that be too much to wish for? I have faaeal 64 ohm version and they are very good in terms of timbre but suffer with extension  is there anything that would provide with good sound with subbase?


Yes my k's black ling extends to about 22hz. The willsound mk2 I own extends to about 25hz, mk1 possibly further.

This is when you can start to feel the rumble, im sure it cuts in a few hz lower, and gets fully noticeable a few hz after. But I usually use a frequency sweep and set a comfortably loud listening volume at the 1-3khz range. Then go back to the sub bass and check when it's audible.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Yes my k's black ling extends to about 22hz. The willsound mk2 I own extends to about 25hz, mk1 possibly further.
> 
> This is when you can start to feel the rumble, im sure it cuts in a few hz lower, and gets fully noticeable a few hz after. But I usually use a frequency sweep and set a comfortably loud listening volume at the 1-3khz range. Then go back to the sub bass and check when it's audible.



you should be able to hear to 20hz with the MK2 (and I'm betting the Black Ling too). try using a constant 20hz tone, not a sweep.


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> i haven't heard the black ling, hopefully soon because my friend is ordering it. I've heard the silver ling and poseidon.
> 
> the poseidon is a a higher level K's samsara. really similar sounding but better. it's darker sounding though than the samsara


ClieOS seems to suggest the black Ling has a mature tuning compared to the white ling and said the Poseidon is in between but the best of both.

Now to my ears the black ling is quite energetic, but I do see the mature tuning in the mids, trying to be more smooth and honest vocals than having too much shimmer, but the treble is definitely sparkly especially with thin foams which balances the bass.

My only issue is the bud responds much better to specific foam combos much like my mojito which is basically ruined or made by the foam choice imo.

I'll be interested to hear your impressions but if its using the stock full foams I won't hold my breath because the bass can be overwhelming with those and the staging will suffer!

Maybe bring your own thin foam and the  imagine that sound but 15% better with custom foam combos xD


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 16, 2018)

chinmie said:


> you should be able to hear to 20hz with the MK2 (and I'm betting the Black Ling too). try using a constant 20hz tone, not a sweep.


Yeah the sweep only gives me half a second to hear 20hz until it reaches 22hz so its probably there. I know it extends about 5hz lower than mk2 but both have actual sub bass which is nice.

Moijto has proper sub bass too, i never understood the opinions that it's bass is light or rolled off. Mojito is extremely bassy to my ears, too much at around 30-90hz but just right in the deep sub bass. It reaches low and punches with donut foams.

I think these opinions were with monk thin foams possibly, plus the unusual shape while sealing to my ear may give a low seal to others and compromise the bass.


----------



## seanc6441

@chinmie 

Yeah you're right mk2 is down to 20hz and mojito is also. Mk2 about 10% more impact from 20-30hz but both have good presence for an earbud in that area.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> ClieOS seems to suggest the black Ling has a mature tuning compared to the white ling and said the Poseidon is in between but the best of both.
> 
> Now to my ears the black ling is quite energetic, but I do see the mature tuning in the mids, trying to be more smooth and honest vocals than having too much shimmer, but the treble is definitely sparkly especially with thin foams which balances the bass.
> 
> ...



yea, your thin foams finding on the AE that you suggested here is truly valuable. the funny thing is i often talk about the thin foams and my friend said it didn't do it for them, also saying it was brittle, easily torn, didn't sound too good...it turns out they are speaking of a different thin foams to what i have! when i gave it to my friend they instantly acknowledged the improvement it makes on their buds

so thank you again! 



seanc6441 said:


> @chinmie
> 
> Yeah you're right mk2 is down to 20hz and mojito is also. Mk2 about 10% more impact from 20-30hz but both have good presence for an earbud in that area.



i always do this 20hz test on new buds to detect if there's problem (like rattling) on the drivers


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 16, 2018)

chinmie said:


> yea, your thin foams finding on the AE that you suggested here is truly valuable. the funny thing is i often talk about the thin foams and my friend said it didn't do it for them, also saying it was brittle, easily torn, didn't sound too good...it turns out they are speaking of a different thin foams to what i have! when i gave it to my friend they instantly acknowledged the improvement it makes on their buds
> 
> so thank you again!
> 
> ...


Technically golov recommended them first so thanks to him 

Thin foams alone don't always have the right focus so i mod them but they are the best for bassy buds or for combining with donut foams even.

This is a really helpful one to add focus,clarity and remove any bloat.



Left: No mods
Middle: multi hole mod (more clarity and leaner mid bass, but disperses the sound.)
Right: 'star' like mod (this really adds focus/centres the sound and keeps the overall balance but adds slightly more clarity and removes any bass bloat)


----------



## toear

nihontoman said:


> Does any earbud have a subbase extension or would that be too much to wish for? I have faaeal 64 ohm version and they are very good in terms of timbre but suffer with extension  is there anything that would provide with good sound with subbase?


I have the faaeal 64 and picked up the seahf 64 at the same time. The seahf bass extends and is more present. Those two were a good starting point to figure out what I like. The the faaeal tend to be more mid forward or centric. The seahf have nice mids and highs, but can also kick it in the bass department. As a result I tend to like buds with slightly recessed mids and highs with a slight v shape or maybe even L shape... Bass has to be there for me. That said I also have the HE150 and HE150 Pro which are great. Now that I have listened to the HE 150 PROs for an extended I can say that they are a bit warmer and darker. Highs still sparkle but what I love is that the depth is actually quite nice with some recordings. Spacious and 3D.... And they bass is separated beautifully as others will attest... Sorry maybe more of a long winded response but based on your question I think I've been there before...

Waiting for fukubukuro and K's 300 samsara incoming... If I can figure a source I will also look at the K's k600.

Good luck and enjoy!


----------



## tim0chan

let me ask again, anyone has any reccomendations for the equivalent of the HD650?
this thread moves really fast and many questions go unanswered


----------



## mbwilson111

tim0chan said:


> let me ask again, anyone has any reccomendations for the equivalent of the HD650?
> this thread moves really fast and many questions go unanswered



sometimes because no one knows the answer or there is no answer.  Hopefully someone will come along but it is difficult to compare headphones and buds.  I have no idea which of my buds sound like which of my headphones... if any do and I have many of each.


----------



## mochill

tim0chan said:


> let me ask again, anyone has any reccomendations for the equivalent of the HD650?
> this thread moves really fast and many questions go unanswered


Maybe look at blox TM9


----------



## seanc6441

tim0chan said:


> let me ask again, anyone has any reccomendations for the equivalent of the HD650?
> this thread moves really fast and many questions go unanswered


People have said Yinman 600 and Zen 2.0/ZOE have a similar tuning.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 16, 2018)

mochill said:


> Maybe look at blox TM9



Do you have one yet?  or, have you heard one?  Pretty expensive to take a leap of faith...



seanc6441 said:


> People have said Yinman 600 and Zen 2.0/ZOE have a similar tuning.



someone who has heard the HD650 and can suggest a bud that they actually own would be helpful... like.. maybe... @HungryPanda


----------



## HungryPanda

tim0chan said:


> Anyone can recommend the earbud equivalent of the HD650?


K's 600 is the closest of all my earbuds to my HD650


----------



## mbwilson111

...and he appeared... lol


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Technically golov recommended them first so thanks to him
> 
> Thin foams alone don't always have the right focus so i mod them but they are the best for bassy buds or for combining with donut foams even.
> 
> ...



thank you @golov17  for that thin foams recommendation!


----------



## tim0chan

HungryPanda said:


> K's 600 is the closest of all my earbuds to my HD650





VocaloidDude said:


> Hmm, that's no good :/ I might end up not getting the hunters after all and go for the campfire andromeda. From what I have been seeing in this thread, it doesn't exactly sound like they're the pinnacle of sound quality. That is what I was basically going for, and if I need to wait a bit longer to save up some more money to comfortably purchase 1100 dollar earphones, then so be it.





hung031086 said:


> It took 2 weeks from order to deliver. Before they said 8 weeks. But after I told them I wanted to cancel because the wait is too long for me, they reduced lead time to 2 weeks.





mochill said:


> Maybe look at blox TM9





seanc6441 said:


> People have said Yinman 600 and Zen 2.0/ZOE have a similar tuning.





mbwilson111 said:


> Do you have one yet?  or, have you heard one?  Pretty expensive to take a leap of faith...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you all for your prompt replies.


----------



## toear

tim0chan said:


> let me ask again, anyone has any reccomendations for the equivalent of the HD650?
> this thread moves really fast and many questions go unanswered


I have not got them yet but I believe many here will tell you it's the K's k600. I imagine you will need a good source to drive them... My dilemma...


----------



## bavinck

tim0chan said:


> let me ask again, anyone has any reccomendations for the equivalent of the HD650?
> this thread moves really fast and many questions go unanswered


K's k600


----------



## CyberGhost

seanc6441 said:


> Rose Masya maybe for brighter forward mids, slightly warm tight bass, and sparkly treble.



Thank you, these look super interesting!



chinmie said:


> Liebesleid is the current best on that kind of sound. the cheaper version that is also my favorite is the Edifier H185.in the mid price there's Toneking Tomahawk (although the sound is too upfront that it hurts my ears, but some like them)



Thanks man.



Danneq said:


> Well, if you live in the US or Canada and hurry up (about 55 minutes left), you can buy Simphonio Dragon 2+ for $199.99 from Massdrop. They usually sell for $319 and are supposed to have that sort of sound signature.
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/70341



Not in US/Canada, plus I was late for that deal anyway. Thanks for the recommendation though.


Can I get opinions on this, please:

First of all, I listen to lots of classic rock (Queen, Scorpions, Europe, Led Zepplin, etc. Also pop - 80s, 90s (Laura Brannigan, Cindy Lauper, you know all that stuff), 90s Eurodance, some American country (e.g. Highwaymen), lately listen to a lot of New Wave Retro. So my music taste is quite varied.

I already own the *YUIN PK2*, which I quite like. They lack in treble and mid clarity a bit for me though.

Was considering getting *VE Zen 2.0 *- But read some comments, including Danneq's, and after that I think I don't want this. Many people have reported that they lack in treble (rolled off), sound muffled, require a very specific amp and are very power hungry overall. They are not great for rock songs.

*Rose Masya* - As per recommendation, I will get these
*Shozy Cygnus* - Ran across these when reading about Rose Masya. Interesting earbuds, will get these.

*PK1 */ *OK1 *- I can't decide between the two, but I have also read that these are now considered old and outdated. I wonder how Cygnus and Masya compare to these? Do I even need to get a PK1 / OK1 if I'm getting Cygnus and Masya?

Will try to find these unicorns in the future:

Sennheiser MX985
BLOX TM7
VE Zen 1.0

I wish I could go back in time and buy the above three, brand new.


----------



## bavinck (Sep 16, 2018)

Regarding the TM9. With thick foams the midbass does have a little hump. I wouldn't call it wooly, but it is warm. With doughnut foam or (better) naked I feel like the midbass is not longer humped. Plus, without foams it does airy and spacious to be. In particular, not sure why but without foams the guitars have a grado-like crispness that I really like.

Edit: percussive instruments on this just sound right. Cymbals, drums, etc, have that tiny little detail that allow me to hear the leading edge of the artists attack. Feels very life like. No veil whatsoever without foams. They are laid back, but massive details that soak you in rather than shove themselves into your face.


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> how's your zuperdac compared to the ES100? i rarely use any of my buds stationary on my workdesk, i often move around  that's why i like bluetooth solution so much



I'm really happy with the zuperdac, but the ES100 is better and I am often using it at my desktop. I was half ways thinking of getting another ES100 so that I can have one dedicated for my desk and one for my belt. But the ES100 doesn't handle hi-res (not that I have much of it). 



doggiemom said:


> Do it!  Do it!    There are so many choices now even under the $100 price point...... or you could go for broke and get the Chord Dave at $12k.



Let me know if you have any suggestions 

p.s. my concern would be that they wouldn't sound much better than the ES100.



chinmie said:


> thank you @golov17  for that thin foams recommendation!



Before I make this huge (lol) investment, these are the ones, correct?:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...p-Ear-Pads-Cover-Replacement/32790634729.html


----------



## Danneq

bavinck said:


> Regarding the TM9. With thick foams the midbass does have a little hump. I wouldn't call it wooly, but it is warm. With doughnut foam or (better) naked I feel like the midbass is not longer humped. Plus, without foams it does airy and spacious to be. In particular, not sure why but without foams the guitars have a grado-like crispness that I really like.
> 
> Edit: percussive instruments on this just sound right. Cymbals, drums, etc, have that tiny little detail that allow me to hear the leading edge of the artists attack. Feels very life like. No veil whatsoever without foams. They are laid back, but massive details that soak you in rather than shove themselves into your face.



How about with thin VE type foams?


----------



## seanc6441

CyberGhost said:


> Thank you, these look super interesting!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Whats your source ouput impendance if you are using one main source for the Masya. I've discovered if it's around 3-4ohm the masya will sound full and have enough bass to balance the sound out. If it's like 1 ohm or less the masya will sound a bit anemic without EQ.

I think the Masya is a bit better value for money than the cygnus as you get a bigger staging, slightly better resolution and a cleaner sound for almost the same price. What I mean to say is the Cygnus is pushing it a bit at it's RRP but if you find one for a good price it's a nice earbud to have.


----------



## seanc6441

bavinck said:


> Regarding the TM9. With thick foams the midbass does have a little hump. I wouldn't call it wooly, but it is warm. With doughnut foam or (better) naked I feel like the midbass is not longer humped. Plus, without foams it does airy and spacious to be. In particular, not sure why but without foams the guitars have a grado-like crispness that I really like.
> 
> Edit: percussive instruments on this just sound right. Cymbals, drums, etc, have that tiny little detail that allow me to hear the leading edge of the artists attack. Feels very life like. No veil whatsoever without foams. They are laid back, but massive details that soak you in rather than shove themselves into your face.


Not too surprising any earbud foamless will have a significant tilt towards the upper frequencies, if these were designed to be used with thin foams and have a laid back sound then foamlss shouldn't be too piercing so it may sound best for anyone who likes brighter signatures hat way.


----------



## bavinck

Danneq said:


> How about with thin VE type foams?


I think people will like thin foam too. It's kind of a middle ground. I don't really love a midbass hump, always chasing linear bass so I like it best with doughnuts or naked. I think you will be good with ve type foams though.


----------



## bavinck

seanc6441 said:


> Not too surprising any earbud foamless will have a significant tilt towards the upper frequencies, if these were designed to be used with thin foams and have a laid back sound then foamlss shouldn't be too piercing so it may sound best for anyone who likes brighter signatures hat way.



See I don't really find foam to give a warmer feel. When I think of warm I think of softening of the treble so the bass warms things up relatively. For me, the thickrr foams are not attenuating treble at all, merely dispersing the bass a bit more giving the feel of a fuller bass.


----------



## bavinck

Going back and forth between the Blur h/H and TM9. These buds are very similar in tuning.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 16, 2018)

bavinck said:


> See I don't really find foam to give a warmer feel. When I think of warm I think of softening of the treble so the bass warms things up relatively. For me, the thickrr foams are not attenuating treble at all, merely dispersing the bass a bit more giving the feel of a fuller bass.


I definitely find full foams increase the bass (via a better seal) and attenuate treble (foam between your ear and the driver) but to each their own.

I find the thin foams from AE add some bass and only take slightly from the treble so you get the best balance for earbuds that are tuned slightly more neutral or dark. Infact I never use full foams at all anymore really. Just donuts or thin foams, or modded full foams which don't really count as full foams after you mod 'em.

You'd like the AE thin foams that I got you to order for your BK, they may even sound good on the TM9. They really sound much better than the new monk thin foams IMO. No contest.


----------



## golov17 (Sep 16, 2018)

http://s.aliexpress.com/ERNr6VJV


----------



## mochill

mbwilson111 said:


> Do you have one yet?  or, have you heard one?  Pretty expensive to take a leap of faith...
> 
> 
> 
> someone who has heard the HD650 and can suggest a bud that they actually own would be helpful... like.. maybe... @HungryPanda


Have it and always trust the bloxB-)


----------



## mbwilson111

golov17 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/ERNr6VJV



Those look like something ate them


----------



## mochill

Those will rip so easy


----------



## fairx

Wow that looks super brittle. Will order asap . Just wish they throw more like 20 pcs for the price though


----------



## golov17

fairx said:


> Wow that looks super brittle. Will order asap . Just wish they throw more like 20 pcs for the price though


Not tried yet..


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 16, 2018)

golov17 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/ERNr6VJV


Haha yeah I saw those, taking 'thin' foam to the extreme.

Not sure what you'd get with those other than itchy ears but if someone wants to try em... 

They might actually be very useful for double foaming... To add some bulk but not reduce treble then put donut over it. Hmm.

Might buy some lol


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> Haha yeah I saw those, taking 'thin' foam to the extreme.
> 
> Not sure what you'd get with those other than itchy ears but if someone wants to try em...
> 
> ...



Just don't let the insects that ate them get into your ears!


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Just don't let the insects that ate them get into your ears!


Aaaaand order cancelled


----------



## beyermann

Its my first purchase in aliexpress. I got the EB2 with the -25% discount. But it's been two days and it's still in "provider is processing your order". The last orange arrow is "correct payment" but still not in "sent". Is this normal? There's a 9 day countdown.


----------



## mbwilson111

beyermann said:


> Its my first purchase in aliexpress. I got the EB2 with the -25% discount. But it's been two days and it's still in "provider is processing your order". The last orange arrow is "correct payment" but still not in "sent". Is this normal? There's a 9 day countdown.



That is normal.. especially since it is the weekend.  Do not worry.


----------



## toear

Hi all

A quick question for my Earbuds Roundup crew.  I have K's 300 Samsara incoming. I may have come across a AK 100ii. Is the output on this and adequate source for them? I believe they are rated 2vrms, unbalanced, though I find I have had a hard time trying to find a conversion for an ohm range ...I also plan on getting the K's 600 or maybe the Puresounds100 500ohm at some point. 

Currently I have an X5 gen 1. I have read this is a worthwhile upgrade but what I have read maybe quite dated...

Basically is this a decent option for what I am looking to drive/something in the $300-400cad range? 
Any input/suggestions would greatly appreciated...

Thx!


----------



## RodRevenge

Whats up guys, anyone here has Willsound buds? im interested in buying


seanc6441 said:


> I definitely find full foams increase the bass (via a better seal) and attenuate treble (foam between your ear and the driver) but to each their own.
> 
> I find the thin foams from AE add some bass and only take slightly from the treble so you get the best balance for earbuds that are tuned slightly more neutral or dark. Infact I never use full foams at all anymore really. Just donuts or thin foams, or modded full foams which don't really count as full foams after you mod 'em.
> 
> You'd like the AE thin foams that I got you to order for your BK, they may even sound good on the TM9. They really sound much better than the new monk thin foams IMO. No contest.



Full foams increase bass yes but not in a good way imo, they bloat it too much maybe becuase of the midbass who knows, and treble get hurt too, you lose more detail than sharpness. Donut is better in every way for me too since i find they tame the sharpness without losing much detail, cant say much about thin foams since i lost my few thin foams lol.


----------



## rkw

tim0chan said:


> let me ask again, anyone has any reccomendations for the equivalent of the HD650?





seanc6441 said:


> People have said Yinman 600 and Zen 2.0/ZOE have a similar tuning.


I have all three (HD650, Yinman 600 and Zen 2). The Yinman 600 has an airy sound like an open headphone and the Zen 2 has a warm sound, but otherwise I don't find either bud to be similar to the HD650. Sorry, but I don't have one to suggest. The HD650 is far superior to any of my earbuds (yet I do most of my listening on earbuds for comfort and convenience reasons).


----------



## RuFrost

toear said:


> Hi all
> 
> A quick question for my Earbuds Roundup crew.  I have K's 300 Samsara incoming. I may have come across a AK 100ii. Is the output on this and adequate source for them? I believe they are rated 2vrms, unbalanced, though I find I have had a hard time trying to find a conversion for an ohm range ...I also plan on getting the K's 600 or maybe the Puresounds100 500ohm at some point.
> 
> ...


I owned ak120ii (tried it with Zen Black) which is better than 100ii. Both have weak amp and mid-fi sound in general. Definitely won't be enough for high ohm earbuds to their full potential. I would suggest some portable dac\amp+smartphone or cheap DAP like shanling m0. m1, ap60 etc... for example consider aks1305p - the best sound you can get under 400$.


----------



## seanc6441

RodRevenge said:


> Whats up guys, anyone here has Willsound buds? im interested in buying
> 
> 
> Full foams increase bass yes but not in a good way imo, they bloat it too much maybe becuase of the midbass who knows, and treble get hurt too, you lose more detail than sharpness. Donut is better in every way for me too since i find they tame the sharpness without losing much detail, cant say much about thin foams since i lost my few thin foams lol.


Not disagreeing I don't like full foams either 

It's like listening under water the sound is too veiled!


----------



## toear

RuFrost said:


> I owned ak120ii (tried it with Zen Black) which is better than 100ii. Both have weak amp and mid-fi sound in general. Definitely won't be enough for high ohm earbuds to their full potential. I would suggest some portable dac\amp+smartphone or cheap DAP like shanling m0. m1, ap60 etc... for example consider aks1305p - the best sound you can get under 400$.


Thanks for the insight... I also have a Zishan z2 with Walnut F1 amp... would the Walnut F1 suffice?

Again, much appreciated!


----------



## doggiemom

waynes world said:


> Let me know if you have any suggestions
> 
> p.s. my concern would be that they wouldn't sound much better than the ES100.


I really like the Geekout, but the customer service from LHLabs is so unbelievably atrocious that I would never buy anything from them again, nor would I recommend that anyone else buy from them.

The Mojo has a warm and musical presentation.  To me it is better, but maybe to you it won't be.    It is very versatile too - it has a line out mode so could be used as part of a home listening setup.  It has a lot of power - I haven't found anything that it can't drive.  When I first got the Utopia and Liquid Gold amp, I was using the Mojo as the DAC until I could save up for a better one.  The Mojo held its own in that setup.

If you have a lot of balanced buds the Mojo may not be the best choice, as none of the Chord products have balanced outputs.  (There is a big discussion in the Mojo thread with an explanation from Chord about this).


golov17 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/ERNr6VJV


Those look super itchy.


----------



## bavinck

seanc6441 said:


> I definitely find full foams increase the bass (via a better seal) and attenuate treble (foam between your ear and the driver) but to each their own.
> 
> I find the thin foams from AE add some bass and only take slightly from the treble so you get the best balance for earbuds that are tuned slightly more neutral or dark. Infact I never use full foams at all anymore really. Just donuts or thin foams, or modded full foams which don't really count as full foams after you mod 'em.
> 
> You'd like the AE thin foams that I got you to order for your BK, they may even sound good on the TM9. They really sound much better than the new monk thin foams IMO. No contest.


Haven't gotten them yet. Will keep posted.


----------



## beyermann

If a small earbud like the PK2s Panda can be anywhere close to HD600 as I've read in some reviews and some people say EB2 is even better im going to be tripping at how is that even possible... I see myself using them to mix along with my cans and monitors of earbuds can be that good


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 16, 2018)

beyermann said:


> If a small earbud like the PK2s Panda can be anywhere close to HD600 as I've read in some reviews and some people say EB2 is even better im going to be tripping at how is that even possible... I see myself using them to mix along with my cans and monitors of earbuds can be that good


If your yuin pk3 was near hd600 then the pk2 may be also for you. If not then I don't think it will be THAT good.

But It's $20 vs a $300 headphone. Comparing like for like cost wise would be fairer.

For detail they do punch above their price many times, but we all know there's more factors than just detail.

For stuff like extension, soundstage, imaging precision and layering. You usually have to buy TOTL buds to match.


----------



## gattari (Sep 16, 2018)

I want an earbud close to hd 800 
Any suggestion ? 
I don't like hd 650... really 
Ok I like a lot graphene and now very tempted for the nicehck ebx.


----------



## beyermann (Sep 16, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> If your yuin pk3 was near hd600 then the pk2 may be also for you. If not then I don't think it will be THAT good.
> 
> But It's $20 vs a $300 headphone. Comparing like for like cost wise would be fairer.
> 
> ...



I bought the EB2 i will comment when it arrives. I have tried a fair share of headphones including the HD650. as the poster above said, I also didn't quite like it, it was too "soft" for me, somehow too warm, but I cant deny the soundstage was amazing. I did never try the HD600 tho, but i've heard its less warm than HD600 but still has the good soundstage etc, so I imagine that if an earbud is anywhere as close then it must be awesome.


----------



## snip3r77

golov17 said:


> 2018 NICEHCK 8.28th SALE Fukubukuro
> http://s.aliexpress.com/6JjiIBJf



If you check the link ( feedback section ) , there's a lot of Japanese that purchase this . I wonder why?


----------



## mbwilson111

My Datura-X is due to be delivered tomorrow.  Sitting here right now with the EB2 in my ears, I am wondering  what I will think of the Datura when it arrives.   These are sooooo good...and comfortable as well.  One of the few buds that just feel like there is nothing in  my ears.  It is hard to imagine anyone being disappointed in these.


----------



## snip3r77

mbwilson111 said:


> My Datura-X is due to be delivered tomorrow.  Sitting here right now with the EB2 in my ears, I am wondering  what I will think of the Datura when it arrives.   These are sooooo good...and comfortable as well.  One of the few buds that just feel like there is nothing in  my ears.  It is hard to imagine anyone being disappointed in these.



How is this compared to old Graphene MX760 and Qian69 and PT 15 with stock cable?


----------



## golov17

doggiemom said:


> Those look super itchy.


 yup


----------



## ClieOS

beyermann said:


> Its my first purchase in aliexpress. I got the EB2 with the -25% discount. But it's been two days and it's still in "provider is processing your order". The last orange arrow is "correct payment" but still not in "sent". Is this normal? There's a 9 day countdown.



A huge typhoon just hammered southern China (where we get most of our earbuds) for the last few days, so do expect everything to slowdown / delay.


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> I'm really happy with the zuperdac, but the ES100 is better and I am often using it at my desktop. I was half ways thinking of getting another ES100 so that I can have one dedicated for my desk and one for my belt. But the ES100 doesn't handle hi-res (not that I have much of it).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



yup, that's the one



golov17 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/ERNr6VJV



and this is even thinner! interesting, might work wonders for the Zen 2



Danneq said:


> How about with thin VE type foams?



that would be the most ideal for the TM9. i like them better with thin foams, also my friend put donuts on his TM9 initially, but after trying the thin foams that i brought (the same ones that @waynes world  linked above) , he also said it's better and ask for some more of the thin foams.


----------



## chinmie (Sep 17, 2018)

bavinck said:


> See I don't really find foam to give a warmer feel. When I think of warm I think of softening of the treble so the bass warms things up relatively. For me, the thickrr foams are not attenuating treble at all, merely dispersing the bass a bit more giving the feel of a fuller bass.



my older brother also, like you, doesn't feel that thicker foams attenuate treble, and he likes to double foams a lot. me on the other hand do feel the difference. even same thickness foams with different fiber density would sound different.  that's why i don't use random foams from random batches, for consistency sake.


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> yup, that's the one



Thanks. That's the most inexpensive audiophile purchase I've ever made lol.


----------



## bhima

seanc6441 said:


> Not unlike comparing the HD6XX/HD58X to say the HD800. Is the extra ~$600 justified? Up to the listener and how much you value the small details I guess.
> 
> Not saying this particular bud will live up to its TOTL price but in general the case is how much you value small improvements all round.
> 
> Hence why I'll probably be buying the new $400+ K's bud in 2 months



Ehh... most of these buds are using the same housings as much cheaper equivalents. I'm not saying they sound the same, but the difference in R&D for an HD6XX vs. an HD800 is likely quite a bit higher. I really enjoy earbuds now as well and have racked up quite a collection (with Willsounds PK16 on the way). But I would never drop more than $100 on a pair unless there was something under $200 that would actually sound better than my AKG 7XX in every way.


----------



## bhima

Danneq said:


> That's why I cull my earbud herd once in a while...



Danny, have you culled your Yincrow rw-777? I'm about ready to. After I get the Willsounds burn them in and do a big earbud show down I think the Yincrows are headed out the door. They sound amazing but they do not fit my ears at all regardless of the foams, donuts or double foams I use. They only sound great when I press the housing into my ears and keep my fingers there. Are you having any issues with fit on them?


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Thanks. That's the most inexpensive audiophile purchase I've ever made lol.



I'm glad you didn't make the wrong purchase, or that would be catastrophic 

on the side note, i got a Samsara coming, because someone put out an auction and i happen to have funds from cancelling the TM9. by the way @doggiemom which samsara do you have? the black cable and the white cable? because if im not mistaken you have two of them. do they sound different at all?


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 16, 2018)

bhima said:


> Ehh... most of these buds are using the same housings as much cheaper equivalents. I'm not saying they sound the same, but the difference in R&D for an HD6XX vs. an HD800 is likely quite a bit higher. I really enjoy earbuds now as well and have racked up quite a collection (with Willsounds PK16 on the way). But I would never drop more than $100 on a pair unless there was something under $200 that would actually sound better than my AKG 7XX in every way.


Not disputing the 'cheap shells on premium earbuds is lame' argument which I completely agree with. But headphone makers do the same thing many times. Take for instance the HD58X and HD660, one is $150 the other $550 right? But both use identical housing and even the driver (albeit a good design). Or say the HD580-HD660 so many years and not any change of the design (because it works).

But the main question other than build quality is the sound, and yes I think TOTL earbuds are overpriced but it's a niche matket so they have to price them higher to compensate for the lower number of sales I'd imagine. Rest assured the SQ is still awesome on many TOTL buds, if you have not heard one I think you are im for a nice surprise coming from $20 earbuds!

If you wanna compare buds to the HD800 you have only to look at designs like Rose Mojito, New K's bud, moondrop liebesleid to see premium design in earbuds that you can tell how much effort was put into the design process. Without a huge team possibly or the backing of a big company.


----------



## bhima

golov17 said:


> This?



Looks like the same housing as the Graphenes. Wonder if its extremely similar in sound or if they do something to it to tune it differently (ie: different driver, etc.).


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> on the side note, i got a Samsara coming, because someone put out an auction and i happen to have funds from cancelling the TM9.



Samsara, Svara L, what's the difference lol. 

I'm sure you're tell me


----------



## ClieOS

Just contacted Hiegi and made a suggestion to them on making thin foam. Hopefully they will listen. I like the VE thin foam but there is never a bad thing for more places to buy them from.


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Samsara, Svara L, what's the difference lol.
> 
> I'm sure you're tell me



a, m, s, v and L apparently, that's about it


----------



## seanc6441

That timing @chinmie lol


----------



## bhima

seanc6441 said:


> Not disputing the 'cheap shells on premium earbuds is lame' argument which I completely agree with. But headphone makers do the same thing many times. Take for instance the HD58X and HD660, one is $150 the other $550 right? But both use identical housing and even the driver (albeit a good design). Or say the HD580-HD660 so many years and not any change of the design (because it works).
> 
> But the main question other than build quality is the sound, and yes I think TOTL earbuds are overpriced but it's a niche matket so they have to price them higher to compensate for the lower number of sales I'd imagine.
> 
> ...



Well, I mean, the first one is the Massdrop exclusive though . I agree that this hobby in general is overpriced and manufacturers are taking advantage of it, but the HD660, even if its the same housing likely has better pads which adds to the perception (even if ill conceived) of quality. Whereas, something like the Dragon's on Massdrop are the exact same PK shell that are in my $8 PK2's I have right now on my desk. Nothing about this exudes quality, especially from  headphone that retails for over $300, and is on sale at massdrop for $200.

I'm sure there are great earbuds that can rival the sound of solid mid-fi headphones, but at those prices I'd like to see some new housing designs/better materials overall used is all. Heck, even the Datura-X got that part right (they look and feel awesome).


----------



## seanc6441

bhima said:


> Well, I mean, the first one is the Massdrop exclusive though . I agree that this hobby in general is overpriced and manufacturers are taking advantage of it, but the HD660, even if its the same housing likely has better pads which adds to the perception (even if ill conceived) of quality. Whereas, something like the Dragon's on Massdrop are the exact same PK shell that are in my $8 PK2's I have right now on my desk. Nothing about this exudes quality, especially from  headphone that retails for over $300, and is on sale at massdrop for $200.
> 
> I'm sure there are great earbuds that can rival the sound of solid mid-fi headphones, but at those prices I'd like to see some new housing designs/better materials overall used is all. Heck, even the Datura-X got that part right (they look and feel awesome).


But there is these housings. Just look at any of the metal shell buds for instance? You don't have to choose mx500 or pk shell TOTL buds if you are concerned about the build there's options.

Btw don't wanna go off topic for too long but the 58x and 660 share the same pads, housings and drivers. Infact apperantly if you removing the dampening foam behind the back grille of the 58X you get like 95% of exactly the 660 signature. It's essentially the same headphone with a cheap looking glossy paint job but $400 less. This is what a few reviewers have said anyway. Sennheiser confirmed the drivers are identical and we know the housing is too so only difference is the tuning matierial. I'd be mad if i bought a 660 right now...


----------



## snip3r77

chinmie said:


> my older brother also, like you, doesn't feel that thicker foams attenuate treble, and he likes to double foams a lot. me on the other hand do feel the difference. even same thickness foams with different fiber density would sound different.  that's why i don't use random foams from random batches, for consistency sake.



just wondering there is how many type of foams ?
also usually which are the ones that everyone uses?

stock foam
very thin foam
VE type
Heigi
donut


----------



## Danneq

bhima said:


> Ehh... most of these buds are using the same housings as much cheaper equivalents. I'm not saying they sound the same, but the difference in R&D for an HD6XX vs. an HD800 is likely quite a bit higher. I really enjoy earbuds now as well and have racked up quite a collection (with Willsounds PK16 on the way). But I would never drop more than $100 on a pair unless there was something under $200 that would actually sound better than my AKG 7XX in every way.



With some TOTL earbuds part of the cost is for the material, mainly cables, used. That was the case with Diomnes Lv2, which used drivers from the $5 VE Monk (first version) and expensive Cardas litz cables. Together with some tuning of the drivers they sound completely different from the Monk. So I think they were worth the price of around $180 excluding shipping if I look at how they sound.

Cypherus also uses expensive cable with the more expensive earbud models. I think the main part of the cost of the $600+ CAX Red Dragon is the cable (the lower part of the cable is thick like a small fire hose, not very good for portable use).

The tuning is also a part of the price. The only headphones I have now is Audio Technica ES10. It's far from the most high end earphones and they are for portable use, but still my best TOTL earbuds completely crush the ES10 in every area except for bass slam. And I paid around $300 for them. 

When it comes to most smaller earbuds makers, and definitely to DIY maker in Indonesia etc, there is no way they can do any R&D on housings. They have to buy what's available and then they probably use the cheapest and most easily accessable housings and focus on cables and tuning.

It would be great if small earbud makers outside of China such as Cypherus, ABnormal & Blox could work together with Chinese earbud makers who design and make their own housings. Something like a Toneking housing with a Blox sound would be awsome.





bhima said:


> Danny, have you culled your Yincrow rw-777? I'm about ready to. After I get the Willsounds burn them in and do a big earbud show down I think the Yincrows are headed out the door. They sound amazing but they do not fit my ears at all regardless of the foams, donuts or double foams I use. They only sound great when I press the housing into my ears and keep my fingers there. Are you having any issues with fit on them?



I have been thinking about it but decided to keep them for now. Fit is not a problem for me with the RW-777. Are they too small for your ears? The circumference is smaller than on MX500 housings and about the same as on Yuin housings but without stems.


----------



## chinmie

bhima said:


> Well, I mean, the first one is the Massdrop exclusive though . I agree that this hobby in general is overpriced and manufacturers are taking advantage of it, but the HD660, even if its the same housing likely has better pads which adds to the perception (even if ill conceived) of quality. Whereas, something like the Dragon's on Massdrop are the exact same PK shell that are in my $8 PK2's I have right now on my desk. Nothing about this exudes quality, especially from  headphone that retails for over $300, and is on sale at massdrop for $200.
> 
> I'm sure there are great earbuds that can rival the sound of solid mid-fi headphones, but at those prices I'd like to see some new housing designs/better materials overall used is all. Heck, even the Datura-X got that part right (they look and feel awesome).



although the TOTL buds use the same shell form, but when you handle them they still would be more polished than the sub $50 counterpart. and then there's the cable difference..really big difference there. 

basically i agree with you that using customized shell and with different materials would be better, but saying the Shozy BK, SWD2+ aren't any better than their less expensive counterparts is not really a fair statement.



snip3r77 said:


> just wondering there is how many type of foams ?
> also usually which are the ones that everyone uses?
> 
> stock foam
> ...



if i want to categorize, it's basically just two types: full foams and donuts. then we're talking about the thickness: thin and thick.

VE and hiegi is company brands. VE is well known for their thin foams, but also have really thick donuts in their expansion packs. Hiegi makes thick donuts and full foams


----------



## RuFrost

toear said:


> Thanks for the insight... I also have a Zishan z2 with Walnut F1 amp... would the Walnut F1 suffice?
> 
> Again, much appreciated!


no. It is low-fi, not even mid-fi as ak100ii-120ii. Probably, they would have enough power (though, questinable), but definitely not sound quality at all.


----------



## stimuz

Danneq said:


> With some TOTL earbuds part of the cost is for the material, mainly cables, used.



I disagree, the main part of cost is the pricetag set by the manufacturer. Can it be worth it? sure, but the markup is still in the hundreds of %.


----------



## DAndrew

I have ordered the ZoomFred


----------



## Danneq

stimuz said:


> I disagree, the main part of cost is the pricetag set by the manufacturer. Can it be worth it? sure, but the markup is still in the hundreds of %.



Of course. But that does not contradict what I wrote. The sound (or tuning in the case of small DIY earbud makers) and/or the whole package is the main part of the price tag. The maker decides that the buds are at a particular level and prices them accordingly. More expensive materials also drive the price up.

Older Blox earbuds is an example where tuning/sound sets the price. TM7 looked exactly the same and used the same cable etc as for example M2C (only difference was color of housing). But soundwise it was a world of difference and the $100+ difference in price was pretty logical if you compared TM7 & M2C.


----------



## ClieOS

stimuz said:


> I disagree, the main part of cost is the pricetag set by the manufacturer. Can it be worth it? sure, but the markup is still in the hundreds of %.



The cost isn't coming just from the parts or labour required to physically put an earbud together - you have to see it from the other way - it took Simphonio 3 years to develop the dynamic driver inside SWD2+ (regular price $300+, Massdrop $200). It also took Blox a few years to develop the TM9 ($280). While they might look like just another MX500 / PK lookalike, they do however deliver SQ that only a rare handful of earbuds are capable of - and that's what you are really paying for - the cost of experiment with different materials in different prototypes, plus the hundreds if not thousands of hours someone spent to make the sound just right. Those are not free.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 17, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> The cost isn't coming just from the parts or labour required to physically put an earbud together - you have to see it from the other way - it took Simphonio 3 years to develop the dynamic driver inside SWD2+ (regular price $300+, Massdrop $200). It also took Blox a few years to develop the TM9 ($280). While they might look like just another MX500 / PK lookalike, they do however deliver SQ that only a rare handful of earbuds are capable of - and that's what you are really paying for - the cost of experiment with different materials in different prototypes, plus the hundreds if not thousands of hours someone spent to make the sound just right. Those are not free.


Very true, also if you consider that the TM9 and SW2+ will only sell relatively low quantity of units they NEED to set the price to a certain amount to cover the time and costs spent with R+D and material used.

Unlike sennheiser or AKG who can 'develop' a product like the HD6xx or K7xx and have it sell in far greater quantities than these earbuds to cover all their costs despite selling them at a lower price.

And we are talking about audiophile headphones here which isn't a massive market within itself.

@bhima

Best thing to do is wait for aliexpress sales and buy a discounted high end product at a time when the price is a little more reflective of what you pay for.


----------



## 40760

EB2 ordered...

And now another thing to look forward to...


----------



## silverfishla

The expense cost of earbuds is quite low (if you take what Lee from VE to be true).  It costs the same to produce the the Monk as it does the Zen.  The way they R&D drivers is not as scientific as a guy sitting on a lab for hours upon hours.  The high cost of earbuds is mostly about what a manufacturer can get for demand.


----------



## RobinFood

silverfishla said:


> The expense cost of earbuds is quite low (if you take what Lee from VE to be true).  It costs the same to produce the the Monk as it does the Zen.  The way they R&D drivers is not as scientific as a guy sitting on a lab for hours upon hours.  The high cost of earbuds is mostly about what a manufacturer can get for demand.



I'll be honest about one thing though, some custom cables with no drivers and only 2-pin or mmcx connectors on the end are much more expensive than a lot of those higher ended earphones. In fact, some of the raw cables with nothing on them yet are also very expensive. Taking it up to IEMs too, a lot of higher end several hundred-dollar earphones also come in recycled and plastic shells. I can't say the price is completely justified, but I don't think the costs of production for low-end buds are the same as some higher end buds using older shells.


----------



## stimuz

silverfishla said:


> The expense cost of earbuds is quite low (if you take what Lee from VE to be true).  It costs the same to produce the the Monk as it does the Zen.  The way they R&D drivers is not as scientific as a guy sitting on a lab for hours upon hours.  The high cost of earbuds is mostly about what a manufacturer can get for demand.



Exactly. While I'm not gonna argue what price is worth the manufacturers time or what the product is worth to people, I will always argue the material cost, especially coming from China.


----------



## ClieOS (Sep 17, 2018)

Just about everything is coming out of China these days, and the cost of running a business there is significantly higher now than it is a decade ago. I have been there 3 times already over the last few years, and things changed so fast it can make your head spins.

In any case, the real conclusion anyone can make is to pay whatever price level you see fit. It is pretty much a moot point regardless of whether we as consumer agree on the price or not. Remember, a few hundreds dollars worth of earbuds is nothing compared to a high end IEM these days, which has much worst value factor than earbuds. If high value factor is a must, might as well quit the hobby while you can.


----------



## golov17

For pleasures you have to pay


Spoiler


----------



## toear

RuFrost said:


> no. It is low-fi, not even mid-fi as ak100ii-120ii. Probably, they would have enough power (though, questinable), but definitely not sound quality at all.


Ok thanks again! Out of curiosity, for reference, what would you consider a 'hi-fi' option?

Thx!


----------



## cathee

ClieOS said:


> Just about everything is coming out of China these days, and the cost of running a business there is significantly higher now than it is a decade ago. I have been there 3 times already over the last few years, and things changed so fast it can make your head spins.
> 
> In any case, the real conclusion anyone can make is to pay whatever price level you see fit. It is pretty much a moot point regardless of whether we as consumer agree on the price or not. Remember, a few hundreds dollars worth of earbuds is* nothing compared to a high end IEM these days*, which has much worst value factor than earbuds. If high value factor is a must, might as well quit the hobby while you can.



That's exactly how I end up justifying it.


----------



## kw8910

palestofwhite said:


> EB2 ordered...
> 
> And now another thing to look forward to...



Were you able to get the $26.99 headfi price?


----------



## chaiyuta

Fortunately that in my coutry there is (are) a DIY earbuds maker who can produce a hand-made driver, unlike buy an instant driver and tuning. So the result is significantly impressive. The successor of Miracle Ref1 names "Miracle Diamond". And his upgraded cable names "Cold War".



 

P.S. this is a picture from other. It is not my hand.


----------



## boblauer

ClieOS said:


> Just about everything is coming out of China these days, and the cost of running a business there is significantly higher now than it is a decade ago. I have been there 3 times already over the last few years, and things changed so fast it can make your head spins.



Truer words never spoken. I traveled to China to help setup a manufacturing plant for my current employer, IT wise, @6 years ago. Fast forward to a couple months ago and we were sold to a company that has huge manufacturing facilities in China and in conference calls over the last couple months I honesty cannot fathom how much the cost to run a plant there has changed. 

Anyhow on topic Mario is pretty happy with this setup today, I drug  my Candy's out of mothballs and they sound so good with Odyssey.


----------



## RuFrost (Sep 17, 2018)

toear said:


> Ok thanks again! Out of curiosity, for reference, what would you consider a 'hi-fi' option?
> 
> Thx!


I have responded in my previous messages to you))
take careful look at them. Aks1305p is an absolute winner - sound for the price. Easily compete with much more expensive devices like xDSD, micro BL, mojo, Hugo, Centrance m8, mini-m8 etc...
DAPs just sucks in comparison with dac\amp in terms of sound quality they provide. if dac\amp cost 400-600$, the same sound quality of the DAP starts from 1400$ and more. If dac\amp cost 200$, the same sound in the dap will be found among DAPs starting from 600-900$. In many cases, DAPs just do not have enough power and authority to drive hi-end earbuds, full-size cans, difficult iems. Amps in many really sucks what especially can be felt on DAPs with switchable amps or the one which have LO. Sometimes their dac chips just not reveal their full potential due to technological limitations for the price included. Sometimes battery do not provide needed energy for the capabilities of built-in amp. I'm not even talking about OS and firmware in some daps, especially in android ones which can and usually do change sound a lot to the worse side.
I, personally, after years in the industry of sound, long time ago switched from DAPs to dac\amps.


----------



## toear

RuFrost said:


> I have responded in my previous messages to you))
> take careful look at them. Aks1305p is an absolute winner - sound for the price. Easily compete with much more expensive devices like xDSD, micro BL, mojo, Hugo, Centrance m8, mini-m8 etc...
> DAPs just sucks in comparison with dac\amp in terms of sound quality they provide. if dac\amp cost 400-600$, the same sound quality of the DAP starts from 1400$ and more. If dac\amp cost 200$, the same sound in the dap will be found among DAPs starting from 600-900$.
> I, personally, after years in the industry of sound, long time ago switched from DAPs to dac\amps.



Ah yes thank you! I did see your suggestions but your comparison between stacks and daps is now much clearer to me... I was trying to avoid stacking as a matter of function/portability. I do not want to go back to using my phone as a transport.... ever.... 

As for the AKS1305p I was not able to find much information on it in English... perhaps you could pm me details if you have a chance. I see you are selling/trading yours...

Thanks again!

Much appreciated!


----------



## groucho69

chaiyuta said:


> Fortunately that in my coutry there is (are) a DIY earbuds maker who can produce a hand-made driver, unlike buy an instant driver and tuning. So the result is significantly impressive. The successor of Miracle Ref1 names "Miracle Diamond". And his upgraded cable names "Cold War".
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. this is a picture from other. It is not my hand.



Is it possible to purchase from NA?


----------



## doggiemom (Sep 17, 2018)

chinmie said:


> by the way @doggiemom which samsara do you have? the black cable and the white cable? because if im not mistaken you have two of them. do they sound different at all?


I only have the black one.  I bought a second one during a sale to have a backup.  Because I am paranoid.  


RuFrost said:


> if dac\amp cost 400-600$, the same sound quality of the DAP starts from 1400$ and more. If dac\amp cost 200$, the same sound in the dap will be found among DAPs starting from 600-900$. In many cases, DAPs just do not have enough power and authority to drive hi-end earbuds, full-size cans, difficult iems.


Some of the higher-end DAPs available drive almost everything just fine...... I would guess that anyone with difficult to drive earbuds or cans would have a home amp setup anyway.  But I do agree with you about the performance:cost ratio.  There is a convenience factor to an all in one device that is worth some amount of money, at least to me.  I ended up cancelling my order for the McIntosh portable DAC/amp and putting the cost of that plus some additional $ towards the KANN.........  got tired of carrying around multiple devices and dealing with fragile cables.


----------



## bhima

Danneq said:


> With some TOTL earbuds part of the cost is for the material, mainly cables, used. That was the case with Diomnes Lv2, which used drivers from the $5 VE Monk (first version) and expensive Cardas litz cables. Together with some tuning of the drivers they sound completely different from the Monk. So I think they were worth the price of around $180 excluding shipping if I look at how they sound.
> 
> Cypherus also uses expensive cable with the more expensive earbud models. I think the main part of the cost of the $600+ CAX Red Dragon is the cable (the lower part of the cable is thick like a small fire hose, not very good for portable use).
> 
> ...




Hehe im not surprised your buds crush AT headphones. I have never been impressed by their sound.

The yincrows are a bit too big, as are the monks that i have. But the monks dont suffer much in the frequency response feom being a bit loose. Same goes for my graphenes. The Yincrows lose way too much SQ if they cant be shoved into your ears.


----------



## chaiyuta

groucho69 said:


> Is it possible to purchase from NA?


Please contact Mr. Ssp Sutipong via Facebook.


----------



## chinmie

doggiemom said:


> I only have the black one.  I bought a second one during a sale to have a backup.  Because I am paranoid.



yup looks we have the same one. my friend told me the black cable (bassier) differ slightly to the white cable (more treble) but the difference is really small. can't back that up personally, because although he did once lend me both, i didn't remember that difference.

well at least I'm happier because I'm looking for a bass earbuds anyway


----------



## kurtextrem

Is here someone who can contact ToneKing? @ClieOS maybe?
Because of the following: If you search for ToneKing TO600 on Aliexpress, there a different offers. Two cost around 130$ and mention they're graphene buds. The other offers are all around 100$ and don't mention graphene at all. Are there two different versions? Or what justifies the higher price?


----------



## rkw

I have done the unthinkable: ordered an unreviewed earbud (**** PT25). I also succumbed to the EB2 hype train.
Jim at NiceHCK gave me a good price for the two combined — $53. To get the discount, do what golov posted.


golov17 said:


> 1. buy now
> 2. use another payment method
> 3. cancel, Item for status waiting payment ... waiting ... price change. pay, ready



I can't wait to see the pink puffs.   Seriously though, I'm happy to see a fresh new approach.


----------



## ClieOS (Sep 18, 2018)

kurtextrem said:


> Is here someone who can contact ToneKing? @ClieOS maybe?
> Because of the following: If you search for ToneKing TO600 on Aliexpress, there a different offers. Two cost around 130$ and mention they're graphene buds. The other offers are all around 100$ and don't mention graphene at all. Are there two different versions? Or what justifies the higher price?



First of, there is only one version of TO600. Secondly, TO600 doesn't use graphene diaphragm at all (TO400 however does). It is a combination of multi-layer bio-cellulose diaphragm with beryllium dome. Lastly, the official Taobao price of TO600 is about $95.



rkw said:


> I have done the unthinkable: ordered an unreviewed earbud (**** PT25)...



I actually bought it one day before it was released...


----------



## Danneq

bhima said:


> Hehe im not surprised your buds crush AT headphones. I have never been impressed by their sound.
> 
> The yincrows are a bit too big, as are the monks that i have. But the monks dont suffer much in the frequency response feom being a bit loose. Same goes for my graphenes. The Yincrows lose way too much SQ if they cant be shoved into your ears.



Well, I'm not sure if ATH ES10 has got that ATH house sound. I was thinking of buying ATH A2000X a few years ago, I liked those. If I remember correctly they are a bit analytical but in no way sharp or sibilant.

I sold my Sennheiser HD25 II since they could not compete with my TOTL earbuds or ATH ES10. HD25 has got nice aggressive mids but not much more than that.

TOTL earbuds should be compared to full size headphones instead of portable ones, but portable is what I am familiar with. I've only tried different full size headphones in stores when I've been in Japan. I mainly listen to music while on the go so that's why I skip non portable headphones.

The best $150+ earbuds are good enough for critical listening. If you AB them with lower tier earbuds there is a definite difference in soundstage width and depth, instrument separation and layering etc. So it is mainly an improvement in sound that you pay for.

About the RW-777 I have not found any info on the size of the driver, but aren't they a bit smaller than Monk+ and other earbuds that use the old Sennheiser MX500-type housing?


----------



## McCol

Couple of new arrivals from Mr Postie this morning


----------



## theoutsider

rkw said:


> I can't wait to see the pink puffs.   Seriously though, I'm happy to see a fresh new approach.


----------



## kurtextrem

ClieOS said:


> First of, there is only one version of TO600. Secondly, TO600 doesn't use graphene diaphragm at all (TO400 however does). It is a combination of multi-layer bio-cellulose diaphragm with beryllium dome. Lastly, the official Taobao price of TO600 is about $95.


Thank you! If only someone had impressions on the TO600... Big fan of TO400s, but not sure if TO600 can compete with the Black Ling I'm saving for


----------



## nihontoman

toear said:


> I have the faaeal 64 and picked up the seahf 64 at the same time. The seahf bass extends and is more present. Those two were a good starting point to figure out what I like. The the faaeal tend to be more mid forward or centric. The seahf have nice mids and highs, but can also kick it in the bass department. As a result I tend to like buds with slightly recessed mids and highs with a slight v shape or maybe even L shape... Bass has to be there for me. That said I also have the HE150 and HE150 Pro which are great. Now that I have listened to the HE 150 PROs for an extended I can say that they are a bit warmer and darker. Highs still sparkle but what I love is that the depth is actually quite nice with some recordings. Spacious and 3D.... And they bass is separated beautifully as others will attest... Sorry maybe more of a long winded response but based on your question I think I've been there before...
> 
> Waiting for fukubukuro and K's 300 samsara incoming... If I can figure a source I will also look at the K's k600.
> 
> Good luck and enjoy!


Thanks for the reply mate


----------



## snip3r77

I think I'd be receiving the Qian69 these few days
and the Willsound 1 over the weekend.


----------



## Zerohour88

kurtextrem said:


> Thank you! If only someone had impressions on the TO600... Big fan of TO400s, but not sure if TO600 can compete with the Black Ling I'm saving for



unfortunately Toneking doesn't get much love (or at least reviews) as FOTM stuff. Eyeing the TO600 too, alongside the EBX.


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm a big fan of toneking earbuds and iems


----------



## Zerohour88

HungryPanda said:


> I'm a big fan of toneking earbuds and iems



hence waiting for your impression of the TO600 when it arrives 

you liking the TO200 more than TO400 was a bit of a surprise though


----------



## HungryPanda

I like both TO200 and TO400, just sometimes I prefer the extra bass of the TO200


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> I like both TO200 and TO400, just sometimes I prefer the extra bass of the TO200



^^^^^  What he said...     ^^^^^


----------



## HungryPanda

today I'm totally rocking the Seahf AWK-F320S


----------



## waynes world

rkw said:


> I have done the unthinkable: ordered an unreviewed earbud (**** PT25). I also succumbed to the EB2 hype train.
> Jim at NiceHCK gave me a good price for the two combined — $53. To get the discount, do what golov posted.
> ​
> I can't wait to see the pink puffs.   Seriously though, I'm happy to see a fresh new approach.



Cool! Are you going to return them if there is no red puff stuff going on?


----------



## theresanarc

I thought I'd try out the cheap Vido's since I was ordering some IEMs from the NiceHCK store anyways.....they sound just like Monks to me but um, is the cord on the left side supposed to be shorter than the cord on the other side? The split thing in the middle isn't adjustable and they're very awkward to wear because the left one is so short that the split thingy is almost touching the chin.

Also, any new ones to come out in the same small shell-size as the Monk Lites or Qian39s?


----------



## HungryPanda

Yes I re-cabled mine as the long side is meant to go round the back of your neck, they are called J cables


----------



## RodRevenge

theresanarc said:


> I thought I'd try out the cheap Vido's since I was ordering some IEMs from the NiceHCK store anyways.....they sound just like Monks to me but um, is the cord on the left side supposed to be shorter than the cord on the other side? The split thing in the middle isn't adjustable and they're very awkward to wear because the left one is so short that the split thingy is almost touching the chin.
> 
> Also, any new ones to come out in the same small shell-size as the Monk Lites or Qian39s?


Thats the J cable, i have yet to find someone that like that style i don't know why they keep making it that way, maybe it is cheaper, who knows.


----------



## Spider fan

theresanarc said:


> I thought I'd try out the cheap Vido's since I was ordering some IEMs from the NiceHCK store anyways.....they sound just like Monks to me but um, is the cord on the left side supposed to be shorter than the cord on the other side? The split thing in the middle isn't adjustable and they're very awkward to wear because the left one is so short that the split thingy is almost touching the chin.
> 
> Also, any new ones to come out in the same small shell-size as the Monk Lites or Qian39s?



I think the longer side is suppose to go behind your neck.  The only thing I like about it is that it easy to tell Right vs Left in the dark.


----------



## jant71

If your chin is involved you are doing it wrong  J is to take them out and just wear it. J is good if you find the need to take them out often and then they can hang behind the neck on their own just fine. J-cord is like other cords so there are better lengths and implementations of it. I still don't mind a good J(Vido is okay but not great) as screw the case or tangles from in the pocket or winding up multiple times. Just wear them all day either in or out of the ears.


----------



## RodRevenge

Do any of you guys use buds to work out? if so, any tip to noise cancel better? apart from crancking the volume up until my ears bleed of course, my gym puts music to damn loud, sadly.


----------



## seanc6441

RodRevenge said:


> Do any of you guys use buds to work out? if so, any tip to noise cancel better? apart from crancking the volume up until my ears bleed of course, my gym puts music to damn loud, sadly.



I'd say a comfortable IEM (if that is an optiin for you) would be far more suitable in this situation.

Either than or try the new **** pt25 and apply a thin foam to it. Might be more sealing than normal buds with it's shape.


----------



## DBaldock9

DBaldock9 said:


> The Tracking info for my Svara-L (32Ω), shows that they were in San Francisco on Wednesday.
> So, I expect they'll be here in Houston by the first of next week.
> Looking forward to hearing them.



My Svara-L (32Ω) arrived today, and I've had an hour or two to listen to them.
Instead of music, I've been watching Michael Gambon, as "Maigret", on BritBox - https://www.britbox.com/us/season/Maigret_(1992)_S1_15935
Using a donut foam over a full foam, and connected to my iFi Micro iDSD, these 32Ω earbuds do seem to have more Midrange & Treble than the 115Ω model, but they might not have quite as much Bass.
I like the sound of these new earbuds.
Since both the 32Ω and 115Ω earbuds look the same, I've used different colored foams, to keep the two sets separate.


----------



## ClieOS

theresanarc said:


> I thought I'd try out the cheap Vido's since I was ordering some IEMs from the NiceHCK store anyways.....they sound just like Monks to me but um, is the cord on the left side supposed to be shorter than the cord on the other side? The split thing in the middle isn't adjustable and they're very awkward to wear because the left one is so short that the split thingy is almost touching the chin.
> 
> Also, any new ones to come out in the same small shell-size as the Monk Lites or Qian39s?



The longer cable is supposed to go over your neck, that way thr main cable always stay on one (left) side of your body.


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> My Svara-L (32Ω) arrived today, and I've had an hour or two to listen to them.
> Instead of music, I've been watching Michael Gambon, as "Maigret", on BritBox - https://www.britbox.com/us/season/Maigret_(1992)_S1_15935
> Using a donut foam over a full foam, and connected to my iFi Micro iDSD, these 32Ω earbuds do seem to have more Midrange & Treble than the 115Ω model, but they might not have quite as much Bass.
> I like the sound of these new earbuds.
> Since both the 32Ω and 115Ω earbuds look the same, I've used different colored foams, to keep the two sets separate.



Glad you received them! Interesting that you're using donuts over full foam (I just use donuts)... I'll have to try that. Looking forward to how they work for you with some tunes


----------



## Themilkman46290

RodRevenge said:


> Thats the J cable, i have yet to find someone that like that style i don't know why they keep making it that way, maybe it is cheaper, who knows.


My wife insist on using all her buds that way, she likes j cables, I never understood y


----------



## chinmie

i kinda like the J cables, that way i don't have to use shirt clips, also less dangling on my cheek


----------



## waynes world (Sep 19, 2018)

RodRevenge said:


> Do any of you guys use buds to work out? if so, any tip to noise cancel better? apart from crancking the volume up until my ears bleed of course, my gym puts music to damn loud, sadly.



I got these buds for my noisy gym:

August EP650 Bluetooth headphones. Cheap, but they isolate well and they sound surprisingly good (when eq'd to reduce bass). Like you said,  earbuds in the gym just make the ears bleed.


----------



## chaiyuta

RodRevenge said:


> Do any of you guys use buds to work out? if so, any tip to noise cancel better? apart from crancking the volume up until my ears bleed of course, my gym puts music to damn loud, sadly.


SONY WH-1000XM3


----------



## jogawag (Sep 19, 2018)

theresanarc said:


> I thought I'd try out the cheap Vido's since I was ordering some IEMs from the NiceHCK store anyways.....they sound just like Monks to me but um, is the cord on the left side supposed to be shorter than the cord on the other side? The split thing in the middle isn't adjustable and they're very awkward to wear because the left one is so short that the split thingy is almost touching the chin.





RodRevenge said:


> Thats the J cable, i have yet to find someone that like that style i don't know why they keep making it that way, maybe it is cheaper, who knows.



J-Cable's earbuds cord turns the long right cord to the back of the neck and puts it in the right ear.
Or Vido with Mic is Y-Cable (the length of the left and right chords is the same).


----------



## snip3r77

waynes world said:


> I got these buds for my noisy gym:
> 
> August EP650 Bluetooth headphones. Cheap, but they isolate well and they sound surprisingly good (when eq'd to reduce bass). Like you said,  earbuds in the gym just make the ears bleed.



It's too big bro.....i'm looking at Anker BT


----------



## fairx

HungryPanda said:


> today I'm totally rocking the Seahf AWK-F320S


How would you compare to your ty 320? Vast improvement?


----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> Glad you received them! Interesting that you're using donuts over full foam (I just use donuts)... I'll have to try that. Looking forward to how they work for you with some tunes



Part of the reason for the dual foams, is that most all of my donut foams are the plain Black & White Hiegi types - so to differentiate between the two sets, I used Red & Blue full foams under the Black & White donuts on the 32Ω set.  The 115Ω set currently just has the Black & White donuts on them, but I may try using dual foams on them, as well.


----------



## HungryPanda (Sep 19, 2018)

fairx said:


> How would you compare to your ty 320? Vast improvement?


 The Ty HI-z 320 seem to have more pronounced mids whereas the Seahf has more emphasis on the lower end. for female singers I prefer the Ty HI-z over the Seahf but for EDM and male vocals I prefer the Seahf
. The Ty HI-z has a more spacious soundstage due to the clearer high end


----------



## handwander

Reading possive impressions of the EB2 so far. Then again, what gets negative impressions lately


----------



## snip3r77

handwander said:


> Reading possive impressions of the EB2 so far. Then again, what gets negative impressions lately


A lot of Japanese bought this. So you must buy also


----------



## RobinFood

snip3r77 said:


> A lot of Japanese bought this. So you must buy also



Ah, man! Do I have to buy it too?


----------



## activatorfly

RobinFood said:


> Ah, man! Do I have to buy it too?


Yes


----------



## snip3r77

RobinFood said:


> Ah, man! Do I have to buy it too?



Haha.....go go go!!


----------



## snip3r77 (Sep 19, 2018)

Qian69 came by~~ and I agree to the review here
https://audiobudget.com/product/QianYun/Qian69
Maybe I'd let it run it for about 50 hrs before I stamp the final judgement. 
So far so good OOTB, definitely better than the new graphenes MX760


----------



## bavinck

Got these Blur h/H in my ears and I have no urge whatsoever to buy any other earbuds on this thread. Been a looong time since an audio device did that for me.


----------



## RobinFood

bavinck said:


> Got these Blur h/H in my ears and I have no urge whatsoever to buy any other earbuds on this thread. Been a looong time since an audio device did that for me.



I hear about the h/H a lot, but nothing very detailed...just love or meh.
Which version did you get? How do you compare it to your other gear?


----------



## stimuz

Is Svara the best option for bass?


----------



## RodRevenge

RobinFood said:


> I hear about the h/H a lot, but nothing very detailed...just love or meh.
> Which version did you get? How do you compare it to your other gear?


For some reason this always happen with the blur in the earbuds anonymous group, even the price is handled as a secret.


----------



## waynes world

stimuz said:


> Is Svara the best option for bass?



It depends what you're looking for in bass, and how much you're willing to pay. The Svara L's (32ohm) bass is just right for me: perfect amount, detailed, clean, with good sub-bass extension and doesn't bleed into the mids. Other earbuds may have more bass but can tend to be boomy or that bleeds into the mids. For me and out of my earbuds, the Svara L's have the best quality bass. But, I've only heard a fraction of all of the earbuds out there, and I'm sure there are others with awesome bass as well.


----------



## toear

stimuz said:


> Is Svara the best option for bass?


I have the HE 150 PROs and they are, in my limited experience, quite nice. Good extension and clear, decently wide soundstage and very good depth, airy... My current go to. When at home I bounce between them and my HD6XXs. Haven't tried the Svaras (either) but kinda bypassed them to the K300 Samasara during the last Alie sale.... still.... ever... incoming.


----------



## cqtek (Sep 19, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> Qian69 came by~~ and I agree to the review here
> https://audiobudget.com/product/QianYun/Qian69
> Maybe I'd let it run it for about 50 hrs before I stamp the final judgement.
> So far so good OOTB, definitely better than the new graphenes MX760



Precisely last night I was comparing the Qian69 vs Yincrow RW-9 and I prefer the Yincrow, because they have more amount of bass and mids more present, especially the voices. Although it is true that they may be darker, for me they have enough detail. It is a matter of personal preferences.

I also got on the hype train and bought the EB2 in silver, I hope they taste like TOTL.

And I also have the new graphenes MX760 and they have a sound to forget...


----------



## bavinck

RobinFood said:


> I hear about the h/H a lot, but nothing very detailed...just love or meh.
> Which version did you get? How do you compare it to your other gear?


Big step up imo from something like a k600, which I really enjoy. Big soundstage, with outstanding depth and imaging. Balanced sound profile with very high marks for texture, timbre. Just really enjoyable earbuds. Just like my TM9 the h/h just sound right to me.


----------



## bavinck

RodRevenge said:


> For some reason this always happen with the blur in the earbuds anonymous group, even the price is handled as a secret.


Cant recall exact price but the h/h was about $260 SGD.


----------



## chinmie

stimuz said:


> Is Svara the best option for bass?


for bass quantity and quality:
Samsara > Willsound MK2 > Svara L

Svara has that engulfing bass sound, it might not the most detailed, but as far as I remember no earbuds sound like it too.


----------



## handwander

snip3r77 said:


> A lot of Japanese bought this. So you must buy also


I'm glad a lot of them bought it - this means I can buy it used at e-earphone soon! Refuse to buy anything besides Yuin lately so at least I can test these for comfort first.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I'll be looking into Linsoul BLD Earbuds soon  

So far I can tell you only one that, that the cable sure is amazing


----------



## stimuz

chinmie said:


> for bass quantity and quality:
> Samsara > Willsound MK2 > Svara L
> 
> Svara has that engulfing bass sound, it might not the most detailed, but as far as I remember no earbuds sound like it too.



Hmm, I'll have to look into the Samsara, haven't read much about it. I'm kind of salty that hotfi didn't send my Svaras I ordered last month and I had to dispute it so I dunno if I wanna reorder it if there are alternatives.


----------



## HungryPanda

Dobrescu George said:


> I'll be looking into Linsoul BLD Earbuds soon
> 
> So far I can tell you only one that, that the cable sure is amazing


I got mine yesterday 4.4mm balanced plug, they do sound very nice with the iBasso DX200 and amp8


----------



## snip3r77 (Sep 19, 2018)

cqtek said:


> Precisely last night I was comparing the Qian69 vs Yincrow RW-9 and I prefer the Yincrow, because they have more amount of bass and mids more present, especially the voices. Although it is true that they may be darker, for me they have enough detail. It is a matter of personal preferences.
> 
> I also got on the hype train and bought the EB2 in silver, I hope they taste like TOTL.
> 
> And I also have the new graphenes MX760 and they have a sound to forget...



The Yincrow RW-9 is almost twice the price of Qian69 though
Do let me know the outcome between  eb2 vs qian69 . Thanks


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> for bass quantity and quality:
> Samsara > Willsound MK2 > Svara L
> 
> Svara has that engulfing bass sound, it might not the most detailed, but as far as I remember no earbuds sound like it too.



You are referring to the Svara L's 115ohm, and the MK2 rev1, correct?

It would be interesting how your impressions would be with the Svara L 32ohm and MK2 rev2 versions.


----------



## waynes world

It's a happy day in Waynes World today!


waynes world said:


> Got my headfi consumerism itch out of the way and ordered the FAAEAL Datura-X's and the FENGRU DIY PK1 2.5mm balanced 150ohm's (which I'm pretty sure are the same as the Linsoul BLD 150ohm's).
> 
> That should do me for a month or so. Well, as long as I don't read @dheepak10's review of the Airman AHE-150 lol.



Surprisingly quick shipping this time - 2 weeks 

And here they are...



 

Datura X's do indeed look cool, and very impressive packaging. Nicely done Faaeal - especially for the price! 

And I'm looking forward to giving the balanced Fengru's a go with the Radsone ES100.


----------



## waynes world

It's pretty ridiculous what you can get now for $20. Both the Datura X's and the Fengru PK1's (aka Linsoul BLD 150's) sound great, and I suspect that with a little burn in, both will settle down and sound even better. And the cables on both of them are really nice. Pretty amazing!

Can anyone tell me how the Datura X's compare to the EB2's?


----------



## silverfishla (Sep 19, 2018)

waynes world said:


> It's pretty ridiculous what you can get now for $20. Both the Datura X's and the Fengru PK1's (aka Linsoul BLD 150's) sound great, and I suspect that with a little burn in, both will settle down and sound even better. And the cables on both of them are really nice. Pretty amazing!
> 
> Can anyone tell me how the Datura X's compare to the EB2's?


Datura X if you like a balanced muscular sound with a good backbeat.  EB2 if you like vocals and...tambourines.  Actually EB2 can sound quite full with full foams, but loses some of its acoustic spacious quality.  It has very good energy and comfy.  I like them both a lot.
If I had to choose, I’d choose the Datura X.


----------



## Mezzi (Sep 20, 2018)

I know quite of few of you members so I wanted to let you know about some of the earbuds I'm selling.
These are brand new

https://goo.gl/wMvSg7

A few on the list

1. Penon BS1 Official
2. Zen 2.0
3. Zen Omega Edition

..more!

....

Check em night, have a great day and enjoy the bargain.


----------



## RodRevenge

waynes world said:


> It's a happy day in Waynes World today!
> 
> 
> Surprisingly quick shipping this time - 2 weeks
> ...


Dude that's amazing, every time i order something it takes 2 months, also, those faaeals are one of the sexiest buds i have every seen, im seeing those are recomended for Jazz, is it true? i may buy a gift for my girlfriend if so.


----------



## chinmie

silverfishla said:


> EB2 if you like vocals and...tambourines



i don't know why i find this really funny


----------



## TLDRonin

Just got my fukubukuro - the EB2s a day earlier than what the tracking said


I lost the coinflip and got the silver color.The silver will probably grow on me eventually.


Really love the cable and the shape of the bud itself. The cable is the softest I've ever used, and I have a feeling they won't tangle as easy as other cables. The shell itself is very small (smaller than the monk lites and pt15s diameter wise, and between the monk lites and pt15s in "protrusion"), and very comfortable in ear. It made of metal as well but not excessively heavy, which can't be said about the PT15s, IMO

I will comment about sound after brain burn in


----------



## RobinFood (Sep 20, 2018)

Mezzi said:


> I know quite of few of you members so I wanted to let you know about some of the earbuds I'm selling.
> These are brand new
> 
> https://goo.gl/wMvSg7
> ...



EDIT: Back home with a real computer and realizing I'm an idiot... Sorry!


----------



## stimuz

TLDRonin said:


> Just got my fukubukuro - the EB2s a day earlier than what the tracking said
> 
> 
> I lost the coinflip and got the silver color.The silver will probably grow on me eventually.
> ...



iBasso IT01 IEMs come with my favorite MMCX cable ever. So soft, so untangled. I did slice off the ear guides though, probably will regret that but I don't even use the IEMs themselves anymore.


----------



## DAndrew

Just got the pk2 SR2 PRO ( late to the party ) but I have to say it is pretty good. It's my first pk style earbud and at its original price it was a no brainer. Will write a review are burning them in but I quite like how they sound even out of the box.


----------



## subwoof3r

chinmie said:


> for bass quantity and quality:
> Samsara > Willsound MK2 > Svara L
> 
> Svara has that engulfing bass sound, it might not the most detailed, but as far as I remember no earbuds sound like it too.



When you will receive your TM9, it will be on top of your list (you can trust)


----------



## chinmie

subwoof3r said:


> When you will receive your TM9, it will be on top of your list (you can trust)



Unfortunately I'm not going to buy them, as i had the chance to hear my friend's unit first, and i didn't quite like it (too mellow sounding and too much midbass boom for my taste). it is a TOTL level buds though. i ended up getting the Samsara and happier with it


----------



## subwoof3r

chinmie said:


> Unfortunately I'm not going to buy them, as i had the chance to hear my friend's unit first, and i didn't quite like it (too mellow sounding and too much midbass boom for my taste). it is a TOTL level buds though. i ended up getting the Samsara and happier with it


I agree with the "mellow sounding" at the beginning, but it's only after 200+ hours of burning that TM9 really shine. Even if I agree with you that midbass has a lot of impact (to me less than Willsound MK2), other frequencies like mids and treble gains a lot, and overall details are much better now 
Maybe your friend unit didn't reached enough hours ?


----------



## chinmie

subwoof3r said:


> I agree with the "mellow sounding" at the beginning, but it's only after 200+ hours of burning that TM9 really shine. Even if I agree with you that midbass has a lot of impact (to me less than Willsound MK2), other frequencies like mids and treble gains a lot, and overall details are much better now
> Maybe your friend unit didn't reached enough hours ?



the midbass doesn't give a lot impact, it's just big and wolly for my taste, as opposed to the MK2's midbass which is also big but have faster attack/decay. 

my friend's unit is less than 20 hours i suspect, as it is really brand new. even so i am a believer that an earbud will mature and perform better after a few hours burn, but the inherent tone characteristics would rarely change. and the TM9's problem is not it's technicalities, but more of the compatibility with my taste and ears. it would be silly of me having a TOTL level earbuds that i would rarely ever use


----------



## tim0chan

DAndrew said:


> Just got the pk2 SR2 PRO ( late to the party ) but I have to say it is pretty good. It's my first pk style earbud and at its original price it was a no brainer. Will write a review are burning them in but I quite like how they sound even out of the box.


Same here. I like the bass impact but it gets a little weak during busy passages. Maybe it needs more power


----------



## DAndrew

tim0chan said:


> Same here. I like the bass impact but it gets a little weak during busy passages. Maybe it needs more power



Yeah it has thump but overall it is fairly weak and it lacks sub bass. Really doubt that at 16 ohms it needs more power....I am even using it with my DragonFly clone and its still weak. Vocals are nice on it tho


----------



## snip3r77

After about the 20 hours, the (sub)-bass begins to open it.
We'd see how the burn in goes. 



snip3r77 said:


> Qian69 came by~~ and I agree to the review here
> https://audiobudget.com/product/QianYun/Qian69
> Maybe I'd let it run it for about 50 hrs before I stamp the final judgement.
> So far so good OOTB, definitely better than the new graphenes MX760


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 20, 2018)

I just got my eb2 too. Black version. 5 minutes into listening and I can say they sound great. More bass than I was expecting it has good punch and depth to it. Mids are clear and brightish, leaner but not weak sounding. Treble is just clean and clear not bright and sharp. It sounds right though! The staging is wide and separation is at a very good level for this price.

Overall I'm impressed and I think this is one of the best buds I've heard under $50 if you like an all round performer.

I'm using a pourous full foam on them. A type the has more air than hiegi fulls but adds slightly more weight to the low end than ali thin foams (but those work too).


----------



## bavinck

chinmie said:


> Unfortunately I'm not going to buy them, as i had the chance to hear my friend's unit first, and i didn't quite like it (too mellow sounding and too much midbass boom for my taste). it is a TOTL level buds though. i ended up getting the Samsara and happier with it


You like the Willsound MK300, right? I find the bass much "boomier" on the MK300 than the TM9.


----------



## chinmie

bavinck said:


> You like the Willsound MK300, right? I find the bass much "boomier" on the MK300 than the TM9.



the TM9's boom is not like a wide Q equalizer bump, but rather a narrow Q notch that happens to bother me personally. also the MK300 bass is rolled off, not reaching deeper like the TM9. other factor is the price: I'm willing to have the MK300 as a niche earbud on my collection, but the TM9 is not.


----------



## TLDRonin

seanc6441 said:


> I just got my ebx too.


EB2?


----------



## waynes world

silverfishla said:


> Datura X if you like a balanced muscular sound with a good backbeat.  EB2 if you like vocals and...tambourines.  Actually EB2 can sound quite full with full foams, but loses some of its acoustic spacious quality.  It has very good energy and comfy.  I like them both a lot.
> If I had to choose, I’d choose the Datura X.



Tambourines lol! Thanks for your impressions.

I tried the Datura X's with my Xduoo X3 mp3 player last night when falling asleep to trance. They sounded really good with the X3, and the bass was great - really liked it. The "bolts" stick out a bit far so not the most comfortable for me when the side of my head is on the pillow, but still bearable. 



RodRevenge said:


> Dude that's amazing, every time i order something it takes 2 months, also, those faaeals are one of the sexiest buds i have every seen, im seeing those are recomended for Jazz, is it true? i may buy a gift for my girlfriend if so.



I don't listen to much Jazz (too many tambourines lol), so I don't know. But they sound great with trance!



seanc6441 said:


> I just got my ebx too. Black version. 5 minutes into listening and I can say they sound great. More bass than I was expecting it has good punch depth too. Mids are clear and brightish, leaner but not weak sounding. Treble is just clean and clear not bright and sharp. It sounds right though! The staging is wide and separation is at a very good level for this price.
> 
> Overall I'm impressed and I think this is one of the best buds I've heard under $50 if you like an all round performer.
> 
> I'm using a pourous full foam on them. A type the has more air than hiegi fulls but adds slightly more weight to the low end than ali thin foams (but those work too).



You mean "EB2", correct?


----------



## TLDRonin

Is the cable on the EB2 the same as the cable on the DT100 minus the mmcx?


----------



## rkw

seanc6441 said:


> I just got my ebx too.





TLDRonin said:


> EB2?





waynes world said:


> You mean "EB2", correct?


Sean said ebx, which has been discussed often (and highly praised) in this thread. No reason to doubt him.


----------



## seanc6441

rkw said:


> Sean said ebx, which has been discussed often (and highly praised) in this thread. No reason to doubt him.


I definitely did not just edit my post to say EB2

Yes I meant EB2 but I'm tired after a long day lol.

EB2 is great, never heard the EBX but this budget bud from nicehck is a great buy.


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> I just got my eb2 too. Black version. 5 minutes into listening and I can say they sound great. More bass than I was expecting it has good punch and depth to it. Mids are clear and brightish, leaner but not weak sounding. Treble is just clean and clear not bright and sharp. It sounds right though! The staging is wide and separation is at a very good level for this price.
> 
> Overall I'm impressed and I think this is one of the best buds I've heard under $50 if you like an all round performer.
> 
> I'm using a pourous full foam on them. A type the has more air than hiegi fulls but adds slightly more weight to the low end than ali thin foams (but those work too).


Glad you like them!.....they seem generally well received - so I don't think I exaggerated too much in my review....


----------



## nihontoman

just ordered the "something something 69". 69, hehe 

on a serious note, was a tossup between thesw and the something 150 pros but I couldn't find those on Ali and the price for the 69's was too good to pass up. 

let's hope these deliver the sound quality I'm after


----------



## theoutsider

Sony STH40D =  under-the-ears earbuds with externalized drivers. 

Looks almost entirely openback but I think it might sound more like a pair of poorly sealed IEMs.


----------



## kw8910 (Sep 20, 2018)

I got the PK2 SR2 in 16 and 150 ohm couple weeks ago for like $11/ea. The 16 ohm version had a decent amount of bass which is unusual for pk shell drivers but thought the sound quality was lacking with its really thin, rubbery cable. So I decided to recable it and see if there’s any improvement.



So instantly the sound was clearer, more detailed and transparent but unfortunately it kept some of the characteristics I didn't like from the original. Same dark sound with small soundstage and rolled off treble. I compared it to the EB2 and the soundstage on that was a vast difference. Not what I was looking for so I'll probably move these cables to another driver.


----------



## MichaelMark

can anyone give a brief comparison between VE zen 2 and Moonbuds Bunting?


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 20, 2018)

activatorfly said:


> Glad you like them!.....they seem generally well received - so I don't think I exaggerated too much in my review....


And now to name a few 'flaws' I noticed (to my ears anyway).

- low mids are weak which means vocals lack heft and authority at times. A quick check by using EQ to boost the area and the results were immediately noticeable.

- Bass is good, can be EQ'd for big improvements. It has extension in the sub bass but it's very subdued. I'll take any extension below 30hz though as an EQ boost can really make the bass more solid.

- Lack of emphasis in the upper treble. They extend well but are quite polite (or i guess neutral to some) in that area for my tastes.

- Damn tricky to choose foams for. They seem to enjoy regular donut or full foams best but i do prefer thin foams and im not getting much wow factor if I apply the thins on this bud.

Sorry had to keep it real with the hype on this bud. None of these flaws are sound breaking and all are basically EQ-able. Soundstage and imaging are very solid. Wide and well separated.


----------



## seanc6441

kw8910 said:


> I got the PK2 SR2 in 16 and 150 ohm couple weeks ago for like $11/ea. The 16 ohm version had a decent amount of bass which is unusual for pk shell drivers but thought the sound quality was lacking with its really thin, rubbery cable. So I decided to recable it and see if there’s any improvement.
> 
> 
> 
> So instantly the sound was clearer, more detailed and transparent but unfortunately it kept some of the characteristics I didn't like from the original. Same dark sound with small soundstage and rolled off treble. I compared it to the EB2 and the soundstage on that was a vast difference. Not was I was looking for so I'll probably move these cables to another driver.


i got my pair today. Quite muffled sounding, timbre was pretty good but it was just scewed too dark for my liking.

Gonna burn em in, recable them and tune the shells to see if i can get them to a much higher level. If not oh well it was cheap enough.


----------



## waynes world (Sep 20, 2018)

Datura X likes a bit of juice! Listening off of laptop -> ES100 -> C&C BH portable amp, and they really come alive.

Edit: these things also have quite the wide soundstage


----------



## snip3r77

nihontoman said:


> just ordered the "something something 69". 69, hehe
> 
> on a serious note, was a tossup between thesw and the something 150 pros but I couldn't find those on Ali and the price for the 69's was too good to pass up.
> 
> let's hope these deliver the sound quality I'm after



The one that I just receive?


----------



## Spider fan

kw8910 said:


> I got the PK2 SR2 in 16 and 150 ohm couple weeks ago for like $11/ea. The 16 ohm version had a decent amount of bass which is unusual for pk shell drivers but thought the sound quality was lacking with its really thin, rubbery cable. So I decided to recable it and see if there’s any improvement.
> 
> 
> 
> So instantly the sound was clearer, more detailed and transparent but unfortunately it kept some of the characteristics I didn't like from the original. Same dark sound with small soundstage and rolled off treble. I compared it to the EB2 and the soundstage on that was a vast difference. Not was I was looking for so I'll probably move these cables to another driver.



Did the PK2 SR2 150 ohm sound any better than the 16ohm one to you?


----------



## kw8910

seanc6441 said:


> i got my pair today. Quite muffled sounding, timbre was pretty good but it was just scewed too dark for my liking.
> 
> Gonna burn em in, recable them and tune the shells to see if i can get them to a much higher level. If not oh well it was cheap enough.



Exactly my thoughts when I first got the SR2, not much change after burning for me. Not sure if they’re worth salvaging, the pro version is suppose to be better but seller never gave any details as to why.

I did transplant the cables over to my old diy pk2 that I rarely use and it’s a sweet improvement! The bass is still light as usual per these smaller drivers but vocals and details are better (a step up from EB2 but with slightly smaller soundstage). Im finding out that I do like having specialized buds rather than all rounders depending on the mood.

Here’s the results:


----------



## kw8910

Spider fan said:


> Did the PK2 SR2 150 ohm sound any better than the 16ohm one to you?



I did like it better but it’s meant for vocals mostly. Very light in bass but vocals are more forward and probably a better candidate for me to recable.


----------



## seanc6441

kw8910 said:


> Exactly my thoughts when I first got the SR2, not much change after burning for me. Not sure if they’re worth salvaging, the pro version is suppose to be better but seller never gave any details as to why.
> 
> I did transplant the cables over to my old diy pk2 that I rarely use and it’s a sweet improvement! The bass is still light as usual per these smaller drivers but vocals and details are better (a step up from EB2 but with slightly smaller soundstage). Im finding out that I do like having specialized buds rather than all rounders depending on the mood.
> 
> Here’s the results:


I specifically asked the seller if the pk sr pro (jogawags link) or pk sr TPE cable was the same and he said 'yes same driver'.

Now ill always be curious if it is indeed the same. Anyways, what cable is that? SPC?


----------



## kw8910 (Sep 20, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> I specifically asked the seller if the pk sr pro (jogawags link) or pk sr TPE cable was the same and he said 'yes same driver'.
> 
> Now ill always be curious if it is indeed the same. Anyways, what cable is that? SPC?



They should sound different as the price is a bit more. Sometimes I feel like sellers prefer not to answer completely because of the language barrier. You're talking about these?:

regular SR2
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/diy...hms-32ohms-150ohms-TPE-wire/32801646835.html?
Pro version
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY...ms-150ohms-transparent-film/32801890526.html?

Yea, it's silver plated copper. The sound is noticeably improved but it's a little stiff so I'll probably get something else next time.


----------



## seanc6441

kw8910 said:


> They should sound different as the price is a bit more. Sometimes I feel like sellers prefer not to answer completely because of the language barrier. You're talking about these?:
> 
> regular SR2
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/diy...hms-32ohms-150ohms-TPE-wire/32801646835.html?
> ...


Yea that one. It may sound different because of the tuning but as long as it was the same driver i didnt care as i plan to recable, reshell and tune it anyway.

It's really unremarkable atm but ill give it a chance.


----------



## kw8910

seanc6441 said:


> Yea that one. It may sound different because of the tuning but as long as it was the same driver i didnt care as i plan to recable, reshell and tune it anyway.
> 
> It's really unremarkable atm but ill give it a chance.



I asked the seller about the 2 different drivers by themselves since there was a $2 price difference, and he/she said "different. second one is better"  For the moment, I'm not curious enough about what that $2 difference would be.


----------



## waynes world (Sep 20, 2018)

Datura X's also like a good seal. I get a.better seal with them over ears. And once properly positioned... BOOM!  Bass bliss 

Edit: fwiw, this is what Im listening to that sounds so very good with the X's

https://www.friskyradio.com/show/deep_tech_los_angeles/09-20-2018/redux-saints-at-09-20-2018


----------



## silverfishla

Guys, the PK’s from Chitty’s store....suck.  But if you want them to sound a little fuller, put a cheap copper cable on them (like a spare Monk cable if you’ve got a Monk that’s died).  That’s probably the third bud I ever bought, and there’s really not much on improving it.  Not worth doing it up, not with that driver.


----------



## DBaldock9

Today in the mail, I received the Black RY4S earbuds, with UE Cable, that I ordered after seeing them mentioned here, and on "Earbuds Anonymous". So far, I've listened to them connected to my Radsone ES100 (BT aptX HD Receiver / Amp), playing music from my Roku net-streamer. They have a good amount of "fast" & detailed low Bass; a slightly forward Midrange, that's nice for vocals; and crisp, clear Treble. To me, they sound as good as earbuds that are 10 times more expensive.  Superb sound, for $8.39.


----------



## silverfishla

waynes world said:


> Datura X's also like a good seal. I get a.better seal with them over ears. And once properly positioned... BOOM!  Bass bliss


I like that bud!


----------



## snip3r77

DBaldock9 said:


> Today in the mail, I received the Black RY4S earbuds, with UE Cable, that I ordered after seeing them mentioned here, and on "Earbuds Anonymous". So far, I've listened to them connected to my Radsone ES100 (BT aptX HD Receiver / Amp), playing music from my Roku net-streamer. They have a good amount of "fast" & detailed low Bass; a slightly forward Midrange, that's nice for vocals; and crisp, clear Treble. To me, they sound as good as earbuds that are *10 times more expensive.  Superb sound, for $8.39*.



Thanks for the bait(enabler) tsk tsk


----------



## bhima

Danneq said:


> Well, I'm not sure if ATH ES10 has got that ATH house sound. I was thinking of buying ATH A2000X a few years ago, I liked those. If I remember correctly they are a bit analytical but in no way sharp or sibilant.
> 
> I sold my Sennheiser HD25 II since they could not compete with my TOTL earbuds or ATH ES10. HD25 has got nice aggressive mids but not much more than that.
> 
> ...



Well, if the Shozy BK ever go on Massdrop for $100, I'll be the first to order them . I think those are my endgame, I'm just not ready to spend $160 on any headphones for a bit.

The RW-777 are smaller than the monks, and just a hair bigger than the MX760 Graphenes. The monks I can wear without jamming the top part under my inner ear, same with the MX760--without having any degradation of sound. The Yincrows however need to be absolutely plugging your ears, otherwise I lose the soundstage, imaging and note fullness substantially.


----------



## mochill

Get the TM9


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> Today in the mail, I received the Black RY4S earbuds, with UE Cable, that I ordered after seeing them mentioned here, and on "Earbuds Anonymous". So far, I've listened to them connected to my Radsone ES100 (BT aptX HD Receiver / Amp), playing music from my Roku net-streamer. They have a good amount of "fast" & detailed low Bass; a slightly forward Midrange, that's nice for vocals; and crisp, clear Treble. To me, they sound as good as earbuds that are 10 times more expensive.  Superb sound, for $8.39.



You can't make a post like that without providing a link lol!


----------



## chinmie

DBaldock9 said:


> Today in the mail, I received the Black RY4S earbuds, with UE Cable, that I ordered after seeing them mentioned here, and on "Earbuds Anonymous". So far, I've listened to them connected to my Radsone ES100 (BT aptX HD Receiver / Amp), playing music from my Roku net-streamer. They have a good amount of "fast" & detailed low Bass; a slightly forward Midrange, that's nice for vocals; and crisp, clear Treble. To me, they sound as good as earbuds that are 10 times more expensive.  Superb sound, for $8.39.



yup, the RY4S is quite good for the price


----------



## redkingjoe

mochill said:


> Get the TM9



Very tempting! I’m saving money for a ATH-CM2000ti! 

Is the TM9 that good?

Will there be discount during 1111 festivals?


----------



## redkingjoe

kw8910 said:


> I asked the seller about the 2 different drivers by themselves since there was a $2 price difference, and he/she said "different. second one is better"  For the moment, I'm not curious enough about what that $2 difference would be.



I met with a senior executive of a TOTL earbud manufacturing company. We spent half an hour talking about their products.

At cost, $2 can buy a HQ driver for TOTL earbuds!


----------



## silverfishla

redkingjoe said:


> I met with a senior executive of a TOTL earbud manufacturing company. We spent half an hour talking about their products.
> 
> At cost, $2 can buy a HQ driver for TOTL earbuds!


Although he didn’t say specifically the cost, it is what Wild Lee from VE intimated in his Facebook Live discussion awhile back.  He was quite candid.


----------



## kw8910

redkingjoe said:


> I met with a senior executive of a TOTL earbud manufacturing company. We spent half an hour talking about their products.
> 
> At cost, $2 can buy a HQ driver for TOTL earbuds!


I’ve no doubt this may be true! most of the cost is in r&d/tuning and cables.. Im just skeptical that the driver that they are selling for $2 more, likely from the same manufacturer, is going be much of an improvement. Has anyone bought both versions (sr2 & sr2 pro) to compare?


----------



## chinmie (Sep 21, 2018)

the most visible differentiators to price between the TOTLs to their inexpensive counterparts are the cables and jacks. tunings and other labor stuff would be subjective depending from the builders.


----------



## chinmie

double posted


----------



## nihontoman

snip3r77 said:


> The one that I just receive?


yeah, those.


----------



## snip3r77

nihontoman said:


> yeah, those.



Min you need to burn in for 50 hours. I'd report if there's any changes from 100 hours.


----------



## Danneq (Sep 21, 2018)

bhima said:


> Well, if the Shozy BK ever go on Massdrop for $100, I'll be the first to order them . I think those are my endgame, I'm just not ready to spend $160 on any headphones for a bit.
> 
> The RW-777 are smaller than the monks, and just a hair bigger than the MX760 Graphenes. The monks I can wear without jamming the top part under my inner ear, same with the MX760--without having any degradation of sound. The Yincrows however need to be absolutely plugging your ears, otherwise I lose the soundstage, imaging and note fullness substantially.



About 10 years ago about $35 was my limit for earbuds or earphones (Yuin PK3). A couple of months later it was $60 (Yuin PK2). Then I got into vintage Sony and Aiwa earbuds and the spending limit increased a lot. Now I can spend up to $400 without a problem. I have spent over $400 once on a pair of earbuds (Cypherus Red Dragon). I do not regret is as they truly can compete with high end headphones. Really! Also it was the only pair in existence at the time and when I had a chance to buy them second hand I just had to do it!
Herry of Cypherus told me that 2 more orders for Red Dragon has been made this year - both asking for different custom tunings. One asked for tuning like Audeze LCD 3 and one asked for tuning like Focal Elear. Not sure if my pair is tuned to replicate any particular headphone sound signature. It's just perfectly balanced between lows, mids and highs with exquisite and ultra realistic timbre of instruments and a wide and deep soundstage with first class instrument layering and positioning. The only earbuds I've ever heard that do not lack in any aspect what so ever. Except for the thick cable which makes them useless for portable use.

Anyway, your spending limit might go up with time. You might become tempted to try other TOTL earbuds once you get to hear Shozy BK. That's how it's been like for me. I am 100% sure that Red Dragon is my endgame earbud and that it can never be topped. But I still have ordered Blox TM9 and Simphonio Dragon 2+ in the last month.. A couple of months ago I bought Moondrop Liebesleid while in Japan (now for sale since it's not really my type of sound signature). This hobby can become like a poison. But a sweet poison it is!

I have not had fit issues with the RW-777. Have you tried with silicone rings under the foams?


----------



## nihontoman

snip3r77 said:


> Min you need to burn in for 50 hours. I'd report if there's any changes from 100 hours.


what does burn in change in these earbuds? is it only "brain burn in"?


----------



## Danneq

nihontoman said:


> what does burn in change in these earbuds? is it only "brain burn in"?



I didn't use to belive in "burn in". There might in some part be connected to "brain burn in", that you get used to the sound of a pair of head- or earphones. But I have noticed mainly with TOTL DIY earbuds that they do change if I compare them from out of the box with how they sound later. The overall sound signature is the same but some things can change: midbass can be a bit boomy or muddy at first (that was the case on my Cypherus QFred) and after 100 hours or so that goes away. Soundstage can open up a bit more after a few hours. Some roughness around upper mids can be toned down a bit with use. It is not a dramatic change but in some cases it can be noticable.

Nowadays I put TOTL earbuds on burn in for 4-5 days after I get them. With cheaper earbuds I just use them from the go.


----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> You can't make a post like that without providing a link lol!



Bought them from the RY Earphone Store on AliExpress - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4...e-MX500-style-earphone-3-5mm/32820438211.html
.
This is the one I purchased - 
.


----------



## snip3r77

DBaldock9 said:


> Bought them from the RY Earphone Store on AliExpress - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4...e-MX500-style-earphone-3-5mm/32820438211.html
> .
> This is the one I purchased -
> .



Stop this man lol


----------



## snip3r77

nihontoman said:


> what does burn in change in these earbuds? is it only "brain burn in"?


I only do this for dynamic drivers . You need to loosen it up.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 21, 2018)

DBaldock9 said:


> Bought them from the RY Earphone Store on AliExpress - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4...e-MX500-style-earphone-3-5mm/32820438211.html
> .
> This is the one I purchased -
> .




You have made me want this one.  I like my RY04 which is an entirely different signature that most people on here seem to not like ... but I do.  If I get the RY4S will I be being disloyal to my RY04? lol

edited..typo in my model number


----------



## fairx

DBaldock9 said:


> Bought them from the RY Earphone Store on AliExpress - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4...e-MX500-style-earphone-3-5mm/32820438211.html
> .
> This is the one I purchased -
> .


I visit the mall a few times before  and wonder if anybody got their 150 / 300 ohms version ？


----------



## nihontoman

One more question guys: Is there any kind of silicone sleeves on offer that can be put on these earbuds to turn them into "half in-ear" types?


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Sep 21, 2018)

nihontoman said:


> One more question guys: Is there any kind of silicone sleeves on offer that can be put on these earbuds to turn them into "half in-ear" types?


Yes there are, you just need to look around I use them on metro and buss


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> the most visible differentiators to price between the TOTLs to their inexpensive counterparts are the cables and jacks. tunings and other labor stuff would be subjective depending from the builders.


Are you sure cable matierial even cost that much? The bulk wire and plug they buy and the matierial cost would probably be much lower than the cost of the earbuds.

I think we would be kidding ourselves to think the cost is even more than 1/5 of the retail price. The rest is probably all R+D and mark up.

It's not worth their time and effort to produce such niche products like TOTL earbuds unless they are making huge profits on each sale.

If earbuds somehow become mainstream again and they sell many more than now, then we may see some more competitive pricing.


----------



## snip3r77

Seriously where did they buy the drivers lol. I seriously don’t think it costs that much


----------



## redkingjoe (Sep 21, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Are you sure cable matierial even cost that much? The bulk wire and plug they buy and the matierial cost would probably be much lower than the cost of the earbuds.
> 
> I think we would be kidding ourselves to think the cost is even more than 1/5 of the retail price. The rest is probably all R+D and mark up.
> 
> ...



The out of factory cost is approximately 1/10 the retail price.


----------



## golov17

Hmm..


----------



## seanc6441

redkingjoe said:


> It’s 1/10 approximately!


Not surprising at all. I imagine the budget earbuds are less profitable by far but compensate by selling in much higher volumes.

Like i don't see much profits on a $3 vido or $5 monk, maybe it costs $1 or $1.50 to produce? But they sell thousands.

I'd like to know how much TOTL earbuds are sold per product. Has to be within the hundreds I'd imagine. So you have say 100 sales of a certain TOTL earbud and lets say it costs $250. The profits must be huge for them to invest R+D into these products.

Even if they have an interest to make these buds at the end of day it's a business and they operate to make profit.


----------



## mochill

TM9 is definitely totl, I have my doubt for the audio Technica


----------



## stimuz

mochill said:


> TM9 is definitely totl, I have my doubt for the audio Technica



what if they added $100 to the price tag?


----------



## stimuz

seanc6441 said:


> Are you sure cable matierial even cost that much? The bulk wire and plug they buy and the matierial cost would probably be much lower than the cost of the earbuds.
> 
> I think we would be kidding ourselves to think the cost is even more than 1/5 of the retail price. The rest is probably all R+D and mark up.
> 
> ...



Agreed, but 1/5th is probably pretty far off. They can manufacture, sell and ship stuff like the mx500 for like $9 not in bulk. The cost to produce is probably very, very, very, very low, especially when we know most TOTL use that same shell, and likely similar drivers with more emphasis on tuning.


----------



## seanc6441

stimuz said:


> Agreed, but 1/5th is probably pretty far off. They can manufacture, sell and ship stuff like the mx500 for like $9 not in bulk. The cost to produce is probably very, very, very, very low, especially when we know most TOTL use that same shell, and likely similar drivers with more emphasis on tuning.


Depends on the TOTL bud i guess. Some are using metal shell, higher quality drivers, dual driver, etc. I wish every TOTL bud had a list of detailed specs on the driver, cable and all so we know exactly what we are paying for.


----------



## Danneq

stimuz said:


> Agreed, but 1/5th is probably pretty far off. They can manufacture, sell and ship stuff like the mx500 for like $9 not in bulk. The cost to produce is probably very, very, very, very low, especially when we know most TOTL use that same shell, and likely similar drivers with more emphasis on tuning.



It depends on the maker. In the case of smaller makers such as Cypherus and ABnormal labs in Indonesia and Blox in Thailand (?) it's just 2-3 persons. In the case of Cypherus it's one guy doing everything himself as a hobby on the side of a full time job.

Those 3 DIY makers keep a very high quality when it comes to quality control and especially sound quality. I'd rather pick any of those before a Chinese company that spits out earbuds by the hundreds.

And in that case I am prepared to pay for it.

And I agree with Mochill. The new Audio technica earbud will probably be overpriced considering the sound quality it might have. I think the CM7 and CM700 series cost a lot when they were sold and nowadays they are on around the same level as $100 earbuds at most when it comes to sound.


----------



## Danneq

seanc6441 said:


> Depends on the TOTL bud i guess. Some are using metal shell, higher quality drivers, dual driver, etc. I wish every TOTL bud had a list of detailed specs on the driver, cable and all so we know exactly what we are paying for.



But are you paying for the material and design or for the sound? I don't know about the newer Astrotec Lyra earbuds but I owned the older version which cost around $150. I thought back then that it was a bit overpriced. The design and build quality was first class but soundwise it was just okay. Not much better than Hifiman ES100 which cost half or less. Celsus Gramo One had a cool design and cost $260 but far from amazed me. It sounded quite average so I quickly sold it.


----------



## stimuz

Danneq said:


> But are you paying for the material and design or for the sound? I don't know about the newer Astrotec Lyra earbuds but I owned the older version which cost around $150. I thought back then that it was a bit overpriced. The design and build quality was first class but soundwise it was just okay. Not much better than Hifiman ES100 which cost half or less. Celsus Gramo One had a cool design and cost $260 but far from amazed me. It sounded quite average so I quickly sold it.



pretty much paying for the sound and hype.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 21, 2018)

Danneq said:


> But are you paying for the material and design or for the sound? I don't know about the newer Astrotec Lyra earbuds but I owned the older version which cost around $150. I thought back then that it was a bit overpriced. The design and build quality was first class but soundwise it was just okay. Not much better than Hifiman ES100 which cost half or less. Celsus Gramo One had a cool design and cost $260 but far from amazed me. It sounded quite average so I quickly sold it.


I'm paying for the sound but I feel like without progression of the drivers used how can the sound really advance over last years TOTL?

I'm not an acoustic engineer obviously but surely there are limitations to these cheap drivers that cannot be overcome without more advancement. For instance if factors like diaphragm matierial, magnet strenght and acoustic chamer/shell design make a difference to the sound then I'm going to opt for products that focus on improving those areas over another who just tunes a $5 monk driver to perfection if it means I get better frequency extension, better linearity or better transients.

I know earbuds aren't popular enough to be taken to the highest level of engineering like headphones are, but any company that makes an effort to advance the field will get my interest.

So really I do put emphasis on sound over build but the internal components do matter to the sound so I'd also like to see them being focused on too.

Which sadly is indeed out if the hands if some of these smaller diy earbud makers. But hey if you price your product so high you need to deliver.

I'd love to know what kind of drivers herry uses though in his red dragon, zoomfred etc. If they are just generic drivers with exceptional tuning I'd be amazed especially considering the impressions stating the impressive soundstage, bass extension etc. How can one standard mx500 shell and driver so wildly outperform another if it has a similar composition and shell tuning. Surely the cable cannot make such a massive difference to turn a budget earbud into a  $700 TOTL?

When you listen to your red dragon for instance does it extend in the sub bass and treble far beyond the capability of your cheaper mx500 shell earbuds? Or is it just tuned so much better as to make the whole sound feel balanced and impressive.


----------



## nihontoman

Themilkman46290 said:


> Yes there are, you just need to look around I use them on metro and buss


oh, ok. those look pretty good


----------



## ClieOS

Danneq said:


> But are you paying for the material and design or for the sound? I don't know about the newer Astrotec Lyra earbuds but I owned the older version which cost around $150. I thought back then that it was a bit overpriced. The design and build quality was first class but soundwise it was just okay. Not much better than Hifiman ES100 which cost half or less. Celsus Gramo One had a cool design and cost $260 but far from amazed me. It sounded quite average so I quickly sold it.



Agreed in everything you said. Almost feel like you are ghost writing my own impression of those earbuds. Great mind think alike


----------



## seanc6441

On another note, omg do these sound good with some foam modding... Seriously impressive sound rivaling my EQ'd Rose Mojito in many ways.

 

Eb2 with ali thin foam disk (modded) with hiegi donut on top.

Very punchy, clear forward mids with more low mid presence than stock, sparkly treble. SS is unaffected, lots of air despite the thick foams.


----------



## ClieOS

It is like Christmas, but way better.





Mega Master A7
Mega Master HD1000
Yincrow RW-9 Balanced
**** PT25
ZEVA The Dragon 2.0
ZEVA The Dragon S


----------



## stimuz

seanc6441 said:


> I'm paying for the sound but I feel like without progression of the drivers used how can the sound really advance over last years TOTL?
> 
> I'm not an acoustic engineer obviously but surely there are limitations to these cheap drivers that cannot be overcome without more advancement. For instance if factors like diaphragm matierial, magnet strenght and acoustic chamer/shell design make a difference to the sound then I'm going to opt for products that focus on improving those areas over another who just tunes a $5 monk driver to perfection if it means I get better frequency extension, better linearity or better transients.



Planar earbuds go


----------



## golov17

ClieOS said:


> It is like Christmas, but way better.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tao is robbed?


----------



## Danneq

seanc6441 said:


> I'm paying for the sound but I feel like without progression of the drivers used how can the sound really advance over last years TOTL?
> 
> I'm not an acoustic engineer obviously but surely there are limitations to these cheap drivers that cannot be overcome without more advancement. For instance if factors like diaphragm matierial, magnet strenght and acoustic chamer/shell design make a difference to the sound then I'm going to opt for products that focus on improving those areas over another who just tunes a $5 monk driver to perfection if it means I get better frequency extension, better linearity or better transients.
> 
> ...




The earbud technology with dynamic drivers is around 35 years old. I have owned both Sony MDR E252 and Aiwa HP V2, both released in 1983 (or was it 1982)? Both sound great and can compete with earbuds today up to and around $100.
There have been attempts with dual drivers. Dunu Alpha 1 is the first time a BA driver is used in an earbud and I liked the result (not completely TOTL but not far from it). Fit was the problem with those.

I do not mind generic shells used on earbuds. In some cases it feels like some Chinese earbud makers focus more on the looks than on the sound. "If we add some more chrome people will buy them in droves!".

The only driver I know that Herry has used for Cypherus earbuds is drivers from an Indonesian budget brand called Advance which was used for CampFred 1. I never heard Advance but CF1 is on around the same level as Shozy BK but with more and better bass, slightly softer highs and a bigger soundstage. Again, ABnormal managed to make a TOTL sounding earbud (Diomnes Lv2) using the $5 original Monk. I had sold my Monk when I got my Diomnes Lv2 but there are great differences in sound. I don't remember bass being very pronounced in Monk and soundstage being so so (a bit better than on Monk+). Both are improved drastically on Diomnes Lv2.
Blox make their own drivers from scratch as far as I understand it. At least for the TOTL earbuds. Apparently the development of the driver for TM9 has taken quite some time.






ClieOS said:


> Agreed in everything you said. Almost feel like you are ghost writing my own impression of those earbuds. Great mind think alike



Haha! Or perhaps "those with the same type of great taste in earbud sound signature think alike"?


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> Today in the mail, I received the Black RY4S earbuds, with UE Cable, that I ordered after seeing them mentioned here, and on "Earbuds Anonymous". So far, I've listened to them connected to my Radsone ES100 (BT aptX HD Receiver / Amp), playing music from my Roku net-streamer. They have a good amount of "fast" & detailed low Bass; a slightly forward Midrange, that's nice for vocals; and crisp, clear Treble. To me, they sound as good as earbuds that are 10 times more expensive.  Superb sound, for $8.39.



Thanks for the link. Made sure I used "epacket" to get them within a few weeks again. Also got the 1000000 foams that sean recommended (epacket for them was 3x the price lol). Now I can happily continue on ignoring all of the "TOTL" talk that's been going on around here!


----------



## mochill

stimuz said:


> what if they added $100 to the price tag?


Even if it was $1k I would still buy it


----------



## waynes world (Sep 21, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> It is like Christmas, but way better.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Awesome! I don't know the general pricing of those buds except for the PT25's (I'll probably want to leave it that way lol). Actually, I suspect that the RW-9's are within my range as well, so I'll be looking out for your impressions of both of them


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 21, 2018)

Danneq said:


> The earbud technology with dynamic drivers is around 35 years old. I have owned both Sony MDR E252 and Aiwa HP V2, both released in 1983 (or was it 1982)? Both sound great and can compete with earbuds today up to and around $100.
> There have been attempts with dual drivers. Dunu Alpha 1 is the first time a BA driver is used in an earbud and I liked the result (not completely TOTL but not far from it). Fit was the problem with those.
> 
> I do not mind generic shells used on earbuds. In some cases it feels like some Chinese earbud makers focus more on the looks than on the sound. "If we add some more chrome people will buy them in droves!".
> ...



Well that's good to know that blox for instance is developing its drivers which is probably why the SQ is so impressive.

About the aesthetics I know thats another factor as to why some people are looking to metal or fancier shells but that's not my priority. I prefer shells like those in the Ling because the fit is better, the weight in the ear seems to be beneficial to the felt presence of the sub bass, it sits better in the ear and to be honest there's something about the mx500 shell and cover design that doesn't sound as good to me in general as the more open front covers chamber design of the bell type shells. That's just my opinion anyway.

The technology is old but 35 years of development of dynamic drivers means we must know exactly what can be achieved with the driver when using advanced matierial and design elements.

It's no coincidence that the best dynamic headphones like the focal utopia for instance is using beryllium and other advanced matierials. So while the core technology is the same, the development and materials have improved.

I'd like to see a hint of that development being used in earbuds. Especially when paying increasingly high prices for them.


----------



## RodRevenge

ClieOS said:


> It is like Christmas, but way better.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Waiting to hear your impressions on the **** PT25.


----------



## bavinck

For me, when I pay big bucks for totl I am looking to pay for the tuning capabilities of the designer. I don't care about materials or tech. I don't even care if it looks really nice (to a point with buds this is true, headphones becomes more important for sure). I feel like I am paying a couple hundred for some dude in another part of the world that is gifted in hearing and knows what good sound should sound like to tune me an earbud. If the materials for my TM9 or h/H cost $20 I don't really care, becuase it is the trial and error, time and ear of the tuner that I feel I am paying for.


----------



## KevDzn

seanc6441 said:


> I'd love to know what kind of drivers herry uses though in his red dragon, zoomfred etc. If they are just generic drivers with exceptional tuning I'd be amazed especially considering the impressions stating the impressive soundstage, bass extension etc. How can one standard mx500 shell and driver so wildly outperform another if it has a similar composition and shell tuning. Surely the cable cannot make such a massive difference to turn a budget earbud into a $700 TOTL



VE ZEN White cost almost 7x to ZEN 2.0 due to cable. To me, CABLE is the most important part for earbud tuning.


----------



## stimuz

RodRevenge said:


> Waiting to hear your impressions on the **** PT25.



Yeah, I liked the PT15s but lack of lows kinda hurt it overall.


----------



## stimuz

KevDzn said:


> VE ZEN White cost almost 7x to ZEN 2.0 due to cable. To me, CABLE is the most important part for earbud tuning.



I've noticed no difference between MMCX cables other than how tangled they get.


----------



## KevDzn

stimuz said:


> I've noticed no difference between MMCX cables other than how tangled they get.



If you are comparing between similar priced cables different is minimal to none. Try comparing sliver plated (SPC) to copper ones.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Are you sure cable matierial even cost that much? The bulk wire and plug they buy and the matierial cost would probably be much lower than the cost of the earbuds.
> 
> I think we would be kidding ourselves to think the cost is even more than 1/5 of the retail price. The rest is probably all R+D and mark up.
> 
> ...



like i said, between the driver and shell, the cables and jacks, the latter would make up the most of the price of materials used. i didn't say their proportion from the overall price. the larger margin from the overall price would be the labor

for instance, the Diomnes, Edimun, and Red Demun are all modified sub 10 dollars buds. what did they change? higher quality cables and jacks (the visible part). now this you can figure out the cost based on the price of the cables and jacks themselves. the rest of the retail price then would be the tuning and labor cost.

there's people who sell recabled vidos, edifiers, etc with small labor margin cost (you basically only pay for their soldering and basic tunings).
and then you have the "boutique" priced earbuds.



mochill said:


> TM9 is definitely totl, I have my doubt for the audio Technica



true that. and the TM9 is worth every damn pennies of it's price, even if it's not my preferred sound. 



stimuz said:


> pretty much paying for the sound and hype.



if i may ask, what TOTL earbuds have you heard or have?


----------



## chinmie

I'm all in on the new technology/or innovation for the earbuds, but ultimately, no matter how technologically advanced or what rare material it's using for the shell, if it doesn't sound good, i wouldn't buy them. I'd rather stick the simplest built old tech that sounds great.


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> I specifically asked the seller if the pk sr pro (jogawags link) or pk sr TPE cable was the same and he said 'yes same driver'.
> 
> Now ill always be curious if it is indeed the same. Anyways, what cable is that? SPC?



Going by what you guys are saying about the regular version there definitely is a difference. I got the pro version and I can say its not dark at all


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 21, 2018)

chinmie said:


> I'm all in on the new technology/or innovation for the earbuds, but ultimately, no matter how technologically advanced or what rare material it's using for the shell, if it doesn't sound good, i wouldn't buy them. I'd rather stick the simplest built old tech that sounds great.


True but our definitions of great sound vary. I find most buds to sound too mid centric to sound truly amazing. The extension capabilities of many earbuds is just not good enough for me to consider them impressive (at TOTL earbud pricing). No matter how good the mids can be if the earbud cannot produce both ends of the spectrum i find the whole sound to be lacking on tracks that implement sub bass and upper treble notes.

Only the ling reaches a satisfying level of bass and treble for me, the others i find myself trying to boost them via EQ to get a more engaging sound.

I was never suggesting that earbuds with mx500 shells or standard drivers dont sound good, simply that improvements could be made. That's why im more willing to invest in earbuds that push the boundaries of what's considered possible with the form factor than settle on a well tuned earbud that lacks in key areas vs full size headphones for instance.

For me personally the goal of earbuds reaching better levels of extension means we can be more


----------



## seanc6441

DAndrew said:


> Going by what you guys are saying about the regular version there definitely is a difference. I got the pro version and I can say its not dark at all


Seems so!


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> I'm paying for the sound but I feel like without progression of the drivers used how can the sound really advance over last years TOTL?
> 
> I'm not an acoustic engineer obviously but surely there are limitations to these cheap drivers that cannot be overcome without more advancement. For instance if factors like diaphragm matierial, magnet strenght and acoustic chamer/shell design make a difference to the sound then I'm going to opt for products that focus on improving those areas over another who just tunes a $5 monk driver to perfection if it means I get better frequency extension, better linearity or better transients.
> 
> ...



Herry makes his own drivers, at least for the ZoomFred and up. I ordered a ZoomFred and he sent me pictures of him winding the coil for the driver.He's going to make the whole driver from scratch. He makes everything in that earbud himself so I feel like the price I paid for it is a _bit_ justified. 

Lets not forget that the mx500 was developed by Sennheiser. While it's old they actually did R&D on it and im sure its the best they could come up with


----------



## DAndrew

Danneq said:


> Blox make their own drivers from scratch as far as I understand it. At least for the TOTL earbuds.



Cypherus does too!


----------



## Danneq

DAndrew said:


> Cypherus does too!



What I find amazing is that Herry does this as a hobby on his free time and that he does everything concerning Cypherus himself. It seems like he spends all of his free time on this hobby (he told me he's been into audio and modding stuff for over 20 years. It was first in 2015 he started with earbuds).


----------



## DAndrew

Danneq said:


> What I find amazing is that Herry does this as a hobby on his free time and that he does everything concerning Cypherus himself. It seems like he spends all of his free time on this hobby (he told me he's been into audio and modding stuff for over 20 years. It was first in 2015 he started with earbuds).



Well there is a profit margin to this as well so its not like its volunteer work


----------



## Danneq

DAndrew said:


> Well there is a profit margin to this as well so its not like its volunteer work



Yeah, but still I'm impressed. It seems to be the same with that Blur guy. Constantly working on new stuff.


----------



## DAndrew

Danneq said:


> Yeah, but still I'm impressed. It seems to be the same with that Blur guy. Constantly working on new stuff.



They cant really compare. All of the Blurs use premade drivers :/


----------



## mbwilson111

DAndrew said:


> They cant really compare. All of the Blurs use premade drivers :/



I think he was comparing their dedication and love of the hobby


----------



## Forty6

Hello everybody , Any current user of the Hifiman Es100?


----------



## DAndrew

mbwilson111 said:


> I think he was comparing their dedication and love of the hobby



Yes, thats what I meant when I said they cant compare  

Herry's dedication is on another level ( hand winding the coil for the driver... )


----------



## gazzington

Anybody know what Lamia buds are like.  I see them on earbuds anonymous on FB all the time


----------



## seanc6441

gazzington said:


> Anybody know what Lamia buds are like.  I see them on earbuds anonymous on FB all the time


I'm really suspicious about those buds... All these glamour shots and not even one mention of SQ ever...


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> I'm really suspicious about those buds... All these glamour shots and not even one mention of SQ ever...



I think it is jewelry... but hopefully sounds good as well... not that they would be my thing.  I like simple styles.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> I think it is jewelry... but hopefully sounds good as well... not that they would be my thing.  I like simple styles.


Yeah it's really nice craftsmanship but too blingy for me.


----------



## activatorfly

mochill said:


> Even if it was $1k I would still buy it


Shhh....I'm yet to buy them - can't afford a price hike!


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 21, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> It is like Christmas, but way better.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The obligatory 'impressions please!' post 



stimuz said:


> Planar earbuds go


Was thinking the same earlier. I would buy them instantly. If we think of planars being more flat and extended... Would be amazing to hear in an earbud form.

Or maybe electrostatic earbuds ))


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> On another note, omg do these sound good with some foam modding... Seriously impressive sound rivaling my EQ'd Rose Mojito in many ways.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I figured that you'd be making comparisons to Mojito - once the best foam configuration had been found!


----------



## seanc6441

activatorfly said:


> I figured that you'd be making comparisons to Mojito - once the best foam configuration had been found!


It's a bit like it in terms of staging and the foams that sound best are almost what im using on my mojito.

The main differences are the mid bass and upper mids-lower treble on the mojito being more emphasised.

Ok after further listening it falls slightly short on dynamics and detail compared to the mojito but the separation and wide staging are very similar.


----------



## seanc6441

Even looking at my EQ settings for both roughly the same area's get emphasised or reduced. So yeah i think these have a similar tuning to the mojito but less agressive in it's frequency response.


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> Even looking at my EQ settings for both roughly the same area's get emphasised or reduced. So yeah i think these have a similar tuning to the mojito but less agressive in it's frequency response.



for me, less agressive is always best.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> for me, less agressive is always best.


The mojito is wayy too agressive even for me without EQ. The eb2 is a little too soft. I like it in between like my K's ling, smooth but with an edge to the sound.

Funny though comparing ~$250 earbuds to ~$30 earbuds.


----------



## ra990

I got the zoomfred (used) and I am very impressed. I wrote to CAX asking for a quote on the red dragons and they quoted $680...that's crazy. How good can those be? Anyone own them?


----------



## seanc6441

ra990 said:


> I got the zoomfred (used) and I am very impressed. I wrote to CAX asking for a quote on the red dragons and they quoted $680...that's crazy. How good can those be? Anyone own them?


@Danneq owns them both and may be able to help you out.


----------



## Zhatt

I'm hoping someone here can lend me a little advice. I'm trying to replace the earbuds that came with my Samsung Galaxy S7. I doubt they are the best option out there, but I've liked them well enough over the last couple years.

Now that I'm trying to replace them I'm coming across all these earbuds with poor sound quality. I even ordered the same style off Amazon, but they must have been knockoffs as they sound horrible! Now I'm paranoid as to what might be good head phones. Even as I look at the reviews of $30 to $50 headphones I see people specifically complaining that they're not as good as the S7 earbuds.

I've spent the last couple hours looking around at some options, but I'm getting lost with all the brands and styles available. Can someone recommended a reasonable pair of ear buds in the $30 to $100 range that will sound _at least_ as good as the S7 earbuds?

Thanks.


----------



## stimuz

DAndrew said:


> Herry makes his own drivers, at least for the ZoomFred and up. I ordered a ZoomFred and he sent me pictures of him winding the coil for the driver.He's going to make the whole driver from scratch. He makes everything in that earbud himself so I feel like the price I paid for it is a _bit_ justified.
> 
> Lets not forget that the mx500 was developed by Sennheiser. While it's old they actually did R&D on it and im sure its the best they could come up with



I didn't know that about the MX500 drivers.


----------



## stimuz

So, bout to order the Samsara. Anyone think that would be a mistake if I listen to mostly electronic stuff? I heard suggestions for Willsound and Svara. Anything I'm missing from the subbass earbuds list?


----------



## Kashtan

CAX Red Dragon better than Blox TM9, VE Zen 2 and K Poseidon? Cost just higher.


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> The mojito is wayy too agressive even for me without EQ. The eb2 is a little too soft. I like it in between like my K's ling, smooth but with an edge to the sound.
> 
> Funny though comparing ~$250 earbuds to ~$30 earbuds.


Exactly!


----------



## seanc6441

Kashtan said:


> CAX Red Dragon better than Blox TM9, VE Zen 2 and K Poseidon? Cost just higher.


I would say 'depends on your tastes' but apperantly you can ask Herry of Cypherus audio to custom tune the Red Dragon to match your preferred signature or ask for a tuning like a specific headphone you love.

That's pretty damn cool to be honest...


----------



## waynes world

Zhatt said:


> I'm hoping someone here can lend me a little advice. I'm trying to replace the earbuds that came with my Samsung Galaxy S7. I doubt they are the best option out there, but I've liked them well enough over the last couple years.
> 
> Now that I'm trying to replace them I'm coming across all these earbuds with poor sound quality. I even ordered the same style off Amazon, but they must have been knockoffs as they sound horrible! Now I'm paranoid as to what might be good head phones. Even as I look at the reviews of $30 to $50 headphones I see people specifically complaining that they're not as good as the S7 earbuds.
> 
> ...



I have the S7. I have no idea where the buds are though! I think that I probably unceremoniously threw them in a drawer to be forgotten about. But I should dig them out and give them a whirl.

Anyway, this is the right thread for you. Although I can't say exactly how good (or bad) the S7 buds are, I'm sure there is a huge selection of buds that will sound better them. My guess is that you could find a few of them even under $30. Off the top of my head, the **** PT15's (with some bass boost EQ), the Graphenes ("old, $29"), the Datura X's (I just got them, and they are great) and many others. For $40-$50, the Willsound MK2's, or the NiceCHK EB2's, or the Svara L's (32ohm), and many others I'm sure. And between $50-$100? I'll let others pipe up, but lots of great stuff.

Sorry for your wallet!


----------



## seanc6441

Zhatt said:


> I'm hoping someone here can lend me a little advice. I'm trying to replace the earbuds that came with my Samsung Galaxy S7. I doubt they are the best option out there, but I've liked them well enough over the last couple years.
> 
> Now that I'm trying to replace them I'm coming across all these earbuds with poor sound quality. I even ordered the same style off Amazon, but they must have been knockoffs as they sound horrible! Now I'm paranoid as to what might be good head phones. Even as I look at the reviews of $30 to $50 headphones I see people specifically complaining that they're not as good as the S7 earbuds.
> 
> ...


Hi this is the earbuds thread. I believe you are looking for IEM's a.k.a. "In-Ears" with the silicon tips? There's another IEM thread for those.

Take a look at the Tin audio T2 Pro though. It's one of the best in it's class. Can also be adjusted via a simple mod to add a big bass boost without needing to touch an EQ.


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> I have the S7. I have no idea where the buds are though! I think that I probably unceremoniously threw them in a drawer to be forgotten about. But I should dig them out and give them a whirl.
> 
> Anyway, this is the right thread for you. Although I can't say exactly how good (or bad) the S7 buds are, I'm sure there is a huge selection of buds that will sound better them. My guess is that you could find a few of them even under $30. Off the top of my head, the **** PT15's (with some bass boost EQ), the Graphenes ("old, $29"), the Datura X's (I just got them, and they are great) and many others. For $40-$50, the Willsound MK2's, or the NiceCHK EB2's, or the Svara L's (32ohm), and many others I'm sure. And between $50-$100? I'll let others pipe up, but lots of great stuff.
> 
> Sorry for your wallet!


Oh the S7 actually comes with earbuds and not IEM's??? Shocked!


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Oh the S7 actually comes with earbuds and not IEM's??? Shocked!



Actually, maybe they are iems. Dunno! I always just ignore them lol.


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> Oh the S7 actually comes with earbuds and not IEM's??? Shocked!



Many things used to come with earbuds.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 21, 2018)

activatorfly said:


> Exactly!


Just tried the eb2 on my laptop which is notably warmer than my v30 but surprisingly quite proficient amp wise and with a pretty good sound quality overall.

Eb2 definitely appreciates a warmer-fuller source, really sounds balanced and smooth and so musical. I wasn't liking the lean stock sound from the V30 but it just fills out nicely on a warm source.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Many things used to come with earbuds.


Used to being the key word


----------



## RobinFood (Sep 21, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Used to being the key word



I'm pretty sure my S5 came with IEMs to be honest. I think the only phone to come with earbuds are Iphones. Isn't the S7 the one that comes with IEMs tuned by AKG?

That being said...on a budget you can probably get a better earbud than IEM. Most TOTL earbuds are at the price where IEMs start getting decent!


----------



## waynes world (Sep 21, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Just tried the eb2 on my laptop which is notably warmer than my v30 but surprisingly quite proficient amp wise and with a pretty good sound quality overall.
> 
> Eb2 definitely appreciates a warmer-fuller source, really sounds balanced and smooth and so musical. I wasn't liking the lean stock sound from the V30 but it just fills out nicely on a warm source.



Reading your EB2 posts is like riding on a "Am I going to purchase the EB2 or not?" roller coaster.... I'm getting them!  No, I'm not getting them!  Yes, I'm getting them again!  Lol! Seriously though, I'm appreciating your ongoing impressions.



RobinFood said:


> I'm pretty sure my S5 came with IEMs to be honest. I think the only phone to come with earbuds are Iphones. Isn't the S7 the one that comes with IEMs tuned by AKG?



I'm not sure. If so, I gotta check'em out!



> That being said...on a budget you can probably get a better earbud than IEM. Most TOTL earbuds are at the price where IEMs start getting decent!



Very good point.


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Reading your EB2 posts is like riding on a "Am I going to purchase the EB2 or not?" roller coaster.... I'm getting them! No, I'm not getting them! Yes, I'm getting them again! Lol! Seriously though, I'm appreciating your ongoing impressions.



Just get them.  You know you want to.  What is the worst thing that could happen?


----------



## waynes world (Sep 21, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Just get them.  You know you want to.  What is the worst thing that could happen?



I don't like them. Another $40 CAD spent, languishing in a drawer. My wife finds them and the other 10 pairs of buds I've bought over the last 6 months and thinks I'm mentally deficient and divorces me. But that's about it!


----------



## Zhatt (Sep 21, 2018)

Thanks Waynes World and Seanc6441, I'll take a look at those suggestions.

I guess the for the S7 they're technically in-ear with the silicone tip, but they're much more looser fitting than many other in-ear options I've tried and more comfortable for me. I think I'll stick to looking at earbuds first as I won't be doing heavy exercise in these and them falling out shouldn't be an issue.


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> I don't like them. Another $40 CAD spent, languishing in a drawer. My wife finds them and the other 10 pairs of buds I've bought over the last 6 months and thinks I'm mentally deficient and divorces me. But that's about it!



You will like them though. So that means the rest of it will not happen


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 21, 2018)

Zhatt said:


> Thanks Waynes World and Seanc6441, I'll take a look at those suggestions.
> 
> I guess the for the S7 they're technically in-ear with the silicone tip, but they're much more looser fitting than many other in-ear options I've tried and more comfortable for me. I think I'll stick to looking at earbuds first as I won't be doing heavy exercise in these and them falling out shouldn't be an issue.



Oh.. a pod.  I can tell you that the Memt T5 sounds really great.  I think you would like it.  I love mine.  They have magnets on the back to keep them tidy when you store them. There are 4 color choices.


----------



## snip3r77

waynes world said:


> Reading your EB2 posts is like riding on a "Am I going to purchase the EB2 or not?" roller coaster.... I'm getting them!  No, I'm not getting them!  Yes, I'm getting them again!  Lol! Seriously though, I'm appreciating your ongoing impressions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nike man


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> I don't like them. Another $40 CAD spent, languishing in a drawer. My wife finds them and the other 10 pairs of buds I've bought over the last 6 months and thinks I'm mentally deficient and divorces me. But that's about it!


For what it's worth they have a very easy to like sound signature once the source synergy is right. Nothing but clarity and smoothness from these fellas.

And I couldn't ask for a wider SS at this price, it plays in the same league as the Rose Mojito almost for width and spacious presentation.

They are what I was expecting the will sound pk32 to be but didn't quite sound right to me. These sound clearer in the mids, fuller in the bass and more crisp and airy up top.


----------



## Zhatt

mbwilson111 said:


> Oh.. a pod.  I can tell you that the Memt T5 sounds really great.  I think you would like it.  I love mine.  They have magnets on the back to keep them tidy when you store them. There are 4 color choices.



Oooh. I think that exactly like the sort of thing I'm looking for. Thanks mbwilson! When I get a set I'll come back and share my thoughts.


----------



## seanc6441

Zhatt said:


> Oooh. I think that exactly like the sort of thing I'm looking for. Thanks mbwilson! When I get a set I'll come back and share my thoughts.


Also check out the new **** pt25!


----------



## mbwilson111

Zhatt said:


> Oooh. I think that exactly like the sort of thing I'm looking for. Thanks mbwilson! When I get a set I'll come back and share my thoughts.



I see you are in Canada.  If you get it from Amazon the listing is still from China but they are charging more than if you get it from Aliexpress.  Either way it is going to take awhile.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...mic-Earbuds-Hifi-Bass/119089_32855938707.html


----------



## Zhatt

mbwilson111 said:


> I see you are in Canada.  If you get it from Amazon the listing is still from China but they are charging more than if you get it from Aliexpress.  Either way it is going to take awhile.



Yeah, I don't have the patience to wait two months, so I bought it though the US Amazon site with express shipping. It adds a lot to the cost, but I should get it some time next week!


----------



## chinmie

after  my last purchase (the Samsara) and assess my current collection,  i think now i can conclude that i have enough earbuds for my various needs (bass buds, treble buds, workout buds, sleeping buds, etc, etc) that i could sit back for a while and enjoy them, until one of them breaks and needs replacing, or something new and better that can replace them on their spot.

there's some IEMs that still piqued my interest at the moment, but I'm quite content for my earbuds lineup for now


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> after  my last purchase (the Samsara) and assess my current collection,  i think now i can conclude that i have enough earbuds for my various needs (bass buds, treble buds, workout buds, sleeping buds, etc, etc) that i could sit back for a while and enjoy them, until one of them breaks and needs replacing, or something new and better that can replace them on their spot.
> 
> there's some IEMs that still piqued my interest at the moment, but I'm quite content for my earbuds lineup for now


T2 pro?


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> T2 pro?



nope, sony EX1000. and maybe some waterproof wireless, but I'm not holding my breath for that


----------



## chaiyuta

DAndrew said:


> Yes, thats what I meant when I said they cant compare
> 
> Herry's dedication is on another level ( hand winding the coil for the driver... )


Thanks for this info. I just know that Cypherus drivers are self hand-made drivers. (Are they for whole line-up?) Not only my local DIY earbuds brands e.g. Miracle and Boutiquebuds.


----------



## rkw

seanc6441 said:


> Oh the S7 actually comes with earbuds and not IEM's??? Shocked!


I found mine! They are a ported style earbud, with silicon gel covers.




They do not fit my ears well and I couldn't get a good seal without pressing on them. I had used them only for phone calls, for the mic. Trying them now, they sound decent and without harshness, and I was beginning to think they might be adequate for casual listening. But then I compared them with Yuin PK2 which completely blows them away, not even close.


----------



## rkw

chinmie said:


> i think now i can conclude that i have enough earbuds for my various needs


This hobby is not about need.


----------



## HungryPanda

rkw said:


> This hobby is not about need.


 Not any more for sure


----------



## RodRevenge (Sep 22, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Used to being the key word


I bought my s7 a year and a half ago and it came with earbuds that had silicone covers 


Zhatt said:


> I'm hoping someone here can lend me a little advice. I'm trying to replace the earbuds that came with my Samsung Galaxy S7. I doubt they are the best option out there, but I've liked them well enough over the last couple years.
> 
> Now that I'm trying to replace them I'm coming across all these earbuds with poor sound quality. I even ordered the same style off Amazon, but they must have been knockoffs as they sound horrible! Now I'm paranoid as to what might be good head phones. Even as I look at the reviews of $30 to $50 headphones I see people specifically complaining that they're not as good as the S7 earbuds.
> 
> ...


As far as i remember those had a darkish sound, the best you can do is buy a couple of budget buds <10 usd and find out the signature you like, if thats not an option the closer to that sound i have are my Faaeals 64ohms it is the snow lotus 1.0 i think?


----------



## RodRevenge

chinmie said:


> after  my last purchase (the Samsara) and assess my current collection,  i think now i can conclude that i have enough earbuds for my various needs (bass buds, treble buds, workout buds, sleeping buds, etc, etc) that i could sit back for a while and enjoy them, until one of them breaks and needs replacing, or something new and better that can replace them on their spot.
> 
> there's some IEMs that still piqued my interest at the moment, but I'm quite content for my earbuds lineup for now


Workout buds? Im interested which ones are you using?


----------



## chinmie

RodRevenge said:


> Workout buds? Im interested which ones are you using?



i use PT15 for workout. cheap, sounds good


----------



## gazzington

seanc6441 said:


> I'm really suspicious about those buds... All these glamour shots and not even one mention of SQ ever...


This is what I thought.  Never any mention of sq.


----------



## handwander

Someone link me a black yuin shell, slightly bassy, possible panda pk2s upgrade earbud for less than $40 usd.


----------



## Danneq

ra990 said:


> I got the zoomfred (used) and I am very impressed. I wrote to CAX asking for a quote on the red dragons and they quoted $680...that's crazy. How good can those be? Anyone own them?



ZoomFred is my favorite "regular" TOTL earbud. Red Dragon is at least 1 and perhaps 2 tiers above it. Everything is improved: soundstage is wider and deeper, bass is more linear (sub bass is a bit too hard hitting for my taste, my only complaint of ZF), overall resolution is much higher. Red Dragon sounds like a pair of reference headphones.

I've followed Cypherus for a few years and bought most earbud models. About 2 years ago a new head fier turned up here in the Earbuds round-up thread and asked what were the absolute top earbuds. I recommended Cypherus CAX Black (they cost about $280 when they were still made). The guy came back after having spoken to Herry of Cypherus and wrote that he had made a custom order. I was doubtful. How could CAX Black be beaten for a pure reference type sound?

A few months later the guy contacted me and wrote that he was going to focus on other audio hobbies, such as car audio, instead of portable audio. So he asked if I wanted to buy his Red Dragon, mainly since I was the one who recommended Cypherus and I was a fan of the brand. Until then my limit for earbuds or any fom of head- or earphones was around $400. I tossed all economic sense out the window and bought them.

Soon after they arrived I sold my pair of CAX Black. Those are very good but Red Dragon was a big step up.

Red Dragon was a custom order project with just one pair in existence until this year when two other people have ordered Red Dragon.

I do not know if there is a standard Red Dragon sound, since the other 2 pairs are custom tuned to sound like TOTL headphones (Audeze LCD 3 and Focal Elear). I get the feeling that Red Dragon is more of a concept than a line of earbuds. Sort of "the best sound in a pair of earbuds that money can get you".




Kashtan said:


> CAX Red Dragon better than Blox TM9, VE Zen 2 and K Poseidon? Cost just higher.



I own Zen 2 and have just received TM9 (finally). Will not comment on TM9 until there's over 100 hour burn in. But Red Dragon is on a level of it's own. Far higher than other TOTL earbuds I own or have owned. Still I keep buying TOTL earbuds since I love this hobby. (TM9 sounded a bit off out of the box but is really improving. Will get back to that one later).


----------



## ClieOS

I talked to Hiegi's boss yesterday regarding thin foam, they seems to be quite interested. Fingers crossed that they will be able to find the right type of foam and turn it into a new line of product.


----------



## MichaelMark

Hi question what is the usual warranty period of a 140+ dollar earbuds


----------



## blackberriesandthinkpads

Danneq said:


> have just received TM9 (finally). Will not comment on TM9 until there's over 100 hour burn in. But Red Dragon is on a level of it's own. Far higher than other TOTL earbuds I own or have owned. Still I keep buying TOTL earbuds since I love this hobby. (TM9 sounded a bit off out of the box but is really improving. Will get back to that one later).



I just read through 30+ pages of this thread and was about to throw my laptop out the window! Was looking to see if you got your TM9! Eagerly awaiting for them to burn in!

Curious, what method do you use for burn in?


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> Just tried the eb2 on my laptop which is notably warmer than my v30 but surprisingly quite proficient amp wise and with a pretty good sound quality overall.
> 
> Eb2 definitely appreciates a warmer-fuller source, really sounds balanced and smooth and so musical. I wasn't liking the lean stock sound from the V30 but it just fills out nicely on a warm source.


I find that they do shine with different amp sources - & are ideal for mixing tracks via laptop & DAC.....also they appear to become more transparent after additional burn-in.


----------



## activatorfly

Ordered **** PT25 - hoping that the earpod design doesn't disappoint...........otherwise I might see clouds of red mist! lol


----------



## handwander

MichaelMark said:


> Hi question what is the usual warranty period of a 140+ dollar earbuds


Well what earbuds from what brand and purchased where? There aren't universal warranties based on price.


----------



## snip3r77

cqtek said:


> Precisely last night I was comparing the Qian69 vs Yincrow RW-9 and I prefer the Yincrow, because they have more amount of bass and mids more present, especially the voices. Although it is true that they may be darker, for me they have enough detail. It is a matter of personal preferences.
> 
> I also got on the hype train and bought the EB2 in silver, I hope they taste like TOTL.
> 
> And I also have the new graphenes MX760 and they have a sound to forget...


What do you think of 69’s bass? After run in I feel it’s the punch type of bass not vido type


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 22, 2018)

rkw said:


> I found mine! They are a ported style earbud, with silicon gel covers.
> 
> 
> 
> They do not fit my ears well and I couldn't get a good seal without pressing on them. I had used them only for phone calls, for the mic. Trying them now, they sound decent and without harshness, and I was beginning to think they might be adequate for casual listening. But then I compared them with Yuin PK2 which completely blows them away, not even close.



There is one that I know of that is similar in style with the silicone covers.  I did not realize last night that the ones shown by @Zhatt  had those covers.  It is kind of a pod/iem/bud thing called the Romoss Senyeek...found on Gearbest. Also known on various Amazon sites as the GranVela Conch In-Ear.  I actually bought one on an Amazon UK lightning deal a few weeks ago for £15 ..slightly less than Gearbest and they arrived much faster.

The fit is a bit strange but they sound good.  Normally with IEMs I use medium silicone tips but for this I used the small covers.  I don't think they are meant to seal in the same way that an IEM does.

I never thought to compare to my Memt T5 as the form factor is different.  I prefer the easy fit and the build quality of the Memt.  Maybe I will compare the sound at some point but I hate doing that.  I just would rather enjoy whatever is in or on my ears at the time   Which is of course why I have too much stuff.  I rarely cull.

I saw one review somewhere when I bought mine that said they were too shouty  at loud volumes.  I never listen at high volume which I am sure colors my impressions of everything.  I found them to be a relaxed listen.

Not my photo:


----------



## ClieOS

activatorfly said:


> Ordered **** PT25 - hoping that the earpod design doesn't disappoint...........otherwise I might see clouds of red mist! lol



By far the best sounding Apple-ish half-in-ear style earbuds I have ever heard. Not really the ToTL stuff per se, but it won't disappoint either.


----------



## cqtek

snip3r77 said:


> What do you think of 69’s bass? After run in I feel it’s the punch type of bass not vido type



I like the basses present, and although the Qian69 are not bad in that section, I prefer more quantity, preferably the sub bass region.

As for bass they have a just presence, below my taste. The sub bass is not very extensive, frequencies below 40 Hz are not very noticeable.


----------



## 40760 (Sep 22, 2018)

A quick question for you guys... given that you can order a pair of high impedance TOTL earbuds, is it wiser to opt for a balanced version if given the choice?

I don’t have any balanced source but I’m thinking if I should future proof my purchase to be ready for a balanced setup in the future.

But I’m not sure using it with an balanced to single ended adapter will alter the sound too much. Also, does balanced usually perform better than single ended? If so what are the improvements one can usually expect?

Edit: I know I have the SWD2+, but I've never used it in balanced mode and always with the provided SE adapter.


----------



## snip3r77

Guess who is in the house?


----------



## CyberGhost

seanc6441 said:


> Whats your source ouput impendance if you are using one main source for the Masya. I've discovered if it's around 3-4ohm the masya will sound full and have enough bass to balance the sound out. If it's like 1 ohm or less the masya will sound a bit anemic without EQ.
> 
> I think the Masya is a bit better value for money than the cygnus as you get a bigger staging, slightly better resolution and a cleaner sound for almost the same price. What I mean to say is the Cygnus is pushing it a bit at it's RRP but if you find one for a good price it's a nice earbud to have.



Thanks for the feedback.

Have you listened to PK1/OK1? How do they sound in comparison to Masya and Cygnus?


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> I talked to Hiegi's boss yesterday regarding thin foam, they seems to be quite interested. Fingers crossed that they will be able to find the right type of foam and turn it into a new line of product.


By thin foam do we mean thickness or density? The ali 'thin' foams are actually thick enough but very porous. Hopefully they are opting for that kind.


----------



## Matarro

ClieOS said:


> By far the best sounding Apple-ish half-in-ear style earbuds I have ever heard. Not really the ToTL stuff per se, but it won't disappoint either.


Sounds awesome for people who like that type then! Are there any silicone tips or wings included?


----------



## mbwilson111

snip3r77 said:


> Guess who is in the house?



I just checked to make sure my Willsound MK1 rev2 is still in MY house  Beautiful isn't it?


----------



## mbwilson111

DBaldock9 said:


> Bought them from the RY Earphone Store on AliExpress - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4...e-MX500-style-earphone-3-5mm/32820438211.html
> .
> This is the one I purchased -
> .



I have this one ordered.  I know I will like it   I do expect this to be my last bud!  I have so many.


----------



## snip3r77

mbwilson111 said:


> I just checked to make sure my Willsound MK1 rev2 is still in MY house  Beautiful isn't it?



The red is distinctive  . The sub bass is goood!


----------



## snip3r77

mbwilson111 said:


> I have this one ordered.  I know I will like it   I do expect this to be my last bud!  I have so many.



You need to update your inventory once it arrives.


----------



## mbwilson111

snip3r77 said:


> You need to update your inventory once it arrives.



I always do  Currently up to date.. unless I have forgotten or misplaced something.  At the moment almost everything is in a labeled case.  A few things are in the bags that came with them if the bags are nice and are big enough.  I hate trying to stuff an iem or bud into one of those tiny bags that come with some.  It is so nice when a bud comes with a case ..  like the Willsound., the EB2. or the Datura.


----------



## mochill

Blur has a new chocolate 32ohm with deeper soundstage and bass


----------



## snip3r77

mbwilson111 said:


> I always do  Currently up to date.. unless I have forgotten or misplaced something.  At the moment almost everything is in a labeled case.  A few things are in the bags that came with them if the bags are nice and are big enough.  I hate trying to stuff an iem or bud into one of those tiny bags that come with some.  It is so nice when a bud comes with a case ..  like the Willsound., the EB2. or the Datura.



How is EB2 vs Willsound MK1 rev 2?


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> I have this one ordered.  I know I will like it   I do expect this to be my last bud!  I have so many.


That's cute...


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> That's cute...



Why do I think that you do not believe me?


----------



## mbwilson111

snip3r77 said:


> How is EB2 vs Willsound MK1 rev 2?



I have not compared.   The EB2 wins on comfort because anything with a Monk type shell is the limit of what I can fit in my ear. 

I do know that I can get lost in my music for hours and hours with either of them so any comparison does not really matter to me.


----------



## DBaldock9

mbwilson111 said:


> I have this one ordered.  I know I will like it   I do expect this to be my last bud!  I have so many.



Describe a tall tale, that can be heard on Head-Fi ---  "_I do expect this to be my last bud!_" 

Along with the RY4S earbuds, did you order your Halloween earphones from the RY Earphone Store? - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY1...ic-Skull-earphone-Bass-sound/32906627344.html
.


----------



## mbwilson111

DBaldock9 said:


> Describe a tall tale, that can be heard on Head-Fi ---  "_I do expect this to be my last bud!_"
> 
> Along with the RY4S earbuds, did you order your Halloween earphones from the RY Earphone Store? - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY1...ic-Skull-earphone-Bass-sound/32906627344.html
> .



 I missed that!  But shouldn't mine have owls on them?  

Did you get them?  Post a photo of yourself wearing them!


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 22, 2018)

Look what I found... and they are purple!





These seem to only come in blue...oh, wait, I think his face is purple


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Why do I think that you do not believe me?


Because it'll never last, you'll be feeling too left out when @HungryPanda  gets the next new toy 



Also quick update in EB2. If you do plan to use it on a neutral or bright source I think full foams are the way to go. And I find some full foams to allow better clarity and transparency than others so the more of that the better. Full foams add the needed impact from the bass and low mids on my V30.

For warmer sources any donut foam setup will sound best to my ears. I've switched between the hiegi/ thin ali foam combo and black full foams and I like them both for their respective sources. I'll probably keep the full foams on them because it's a step away from my usual setups of donut of thin foams. Full foams give that full enveloping closed back sound presentation which contrasts nicely with the EB2 stock tuning.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 22, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Because it'll never last, you'll be feeling too left out when @HungryPanda gets the next new toy



Have you planted a listening device in our house?

The answer to the problem is for us to both stop!


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Have you planted a listening device in our house?


Oh you caught me..  It's in one of your earbuds so you'll never find it


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> It's no coincidence that the best dynamic headphones like the focal utopia for instance is using beryllium and other advanced matierials. So while the core technology is the same, the development and materials have improved.
> 
> I'd like to see a hint of that development being used in earbuds. Especially when paying increasingly high prices for them.



I don't think this comparison is very fair.  The Utopia retails for $4k.  Focal is an established company that has the financial resources, facilities, and expertise to devote to R&D.  Some of their speakers retail for upwards of $20,000, so they can use profits and research from their other products lines to venture into the relatively new market of high end personal audio.  An individual or small boutique manufacturer of earbuds just doesn't have the resources to match what a larger company like Focal can do, so the only way I can see the type of development you are asking for being done is if larger companies decide there is a market for earbuds.  The price of the finished product would then scale accordingly.  Focal does have an IEM product with a retail cost of $129 (an apparently it isn't that great), which seems to be towards the top end of what most here are willing to pay, and we are enthusiasts.  There won't be any significant driver development unless companies with $ see a market that will buy the product at a price point and in enough quantity to be profitable.



DAndrew said:


> Well there is a profit margin to this as well so its not like its volunteer work



True, but I'd be curious to know what the labor cost breaks down to per hour.  The volume is pretty low as well, I doubt Herry is going to be putting a down payment on a new pad based on the 2 Red Dragon orders this year.    To me this is no different from a local artist selling some of their paintings or a lady who peddles handmade soaps at craft fairs......... They're not gonna retire off of their profits, but surely it is nice to recoup their costs and make some pocket money.  (And it probably helps when justifying all the time and money spent on a hobby to their spouses).


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> Oh you caught me..  It's in one of your earbuds so you'll never find it


 
You are evil!


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 22, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> I don't think this comparison is very fair.  The Utopia retails for $4k.  Focal is an established company that has the financial resources, facilities, and expertise to devote to R&D.  Some of their speakers retail for upwards of $20,000, so they can use profits and research from their other products lines to venture into the relatively new market of high end personal audio.  An individual or small boutique manufacturer of earbuds just doesn't have the resources to match what a larger company like Focal can do, so the only way I can see the type of development you are asking for being done is if larger companies decide there is a market for earbuds.  The price of the finished product would then scale accordingly.  Focal does have an IEM product with a retail cost of $129 (an apparently it isn't that great), which seems to be towards the top end of what most here are willing to pay, and we are enthusiasts.  There won't be any significant driver development unless companies with $ see a market that will buy the product at a price point and in enough quantity to be profitable.



I definitely see your point but I was more just giving an example off the top of my head about the possibilities of advanced drivers. Earbuds priced around 100-150 I have no expectation of anything beyond great tuing and build quality but once we start talking about the 250+ price range earbuds are playing with the big boys and I'd like to see some attempts at innovation or progress going forward.

But now that ive heard that small time makers like Cypherus and companies like blox are making their own drivers that's pretty good news to me and shows they are serious about getting the sound they want and not just tuning other drivers and hoping for a good combination.

But really I have no gripe with retuned budget drivers if they sound incredible afterwards, i just like to see innovation too as that is what will push earbuds to higher levels of performance like IEM's have done over the last number of years.

I'm all for the first planar magnetic earbud, or dynamics using more exotic matierals and better magnets, or improved the acoustics design of a shell to improve performance. That's what will make the next gen earbuds better.


----------



## ClieOS

Matarro said:


> Sounds awesome for people who like that type then! Are there any silicone tips or wings included?



No foam is included (for obvious reason), but yes, you do get a pair of silicone as well as a pair of winged silicone eartips.


----------



## subwoof3r

mbwilson111 said:


> Look what I found... and they are purple!



TOTL of shameness ;D


----------



## Danneq (Sep 22, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> I don't think this comparison is very fair.  The Utopia retails for $4k.  Focal is an established company that has the financial resources, facilities, and expertise to devote to R&D.  Some of their speakers retail for upwards of $20,000, so they can use profits and research from their other products lines to venture into the relatively new market of high end personal audio.  An individual or small boutique manufacturer of earbuds just doesn't have the resources to match what a larger company like Focal can do, so the only way I can see the type of development you are asking for being done is if larger companies decide there is a market for earbuds.  The price of the finished product would then scale accordingly.  Focal does have an IEM product with a retail cost of $129 (an apparently it isn't that great), which seems to be towards the top end of what most here are willing to pay, and we are enthusiasts.  There won't be any significant driver development unless companies with $ see a market that will buy the product at a price point and in enough quantity to be profitable.
> 
> True, but I'd be curious to know what the labor cost breaks down to per hour.  The volume is pretty low as well, I doubt Herry is going to be putting a down payment on a new pad based on the 2 Red Dragon orders this year.    To me this is no different from a local artist selling some of their paintings or a lady who peddles handmade soaps at craft fairs......... They're not gonna retire off of their profits, but surely it is nice to recoup their costs and make some pocket money.  (And it probably helps when justifying all the time and money spent on a hobby to their spouses).



When I met up with Herry in July at e-earphones store in Akihabara, I think I paid around 27 000 yen in cash for my pair of ZoomFred and he right away went and used that money to buy a second hand A&K DAP (I think AK120). The money got spent right away and both of us went home happy.




seanc6441 said:


> I definitely see your point but I was more just giving an example off the top of my head about the possibilities of advanced drivers. Earbuds priced around 100-150 I have no expectation of anything beyond great tuing and build quality but once we start talking about the 250+ price range earbuds are playing with the big boys and I'd like to see some attempts at innovation or progress going forward.
> 
> But now that ive heard that small time makers like Cypherus and companies like blox are making their own drivers that's pretty good news to me and shows they are serious about getting the sound they want and not just tuning other drivers and hoping for a good combination.
> 
> ...



This was the first time I heard that Cypherus has got handmade drivers (at least for the newer earbud models). Herry is dedicated so it does not surprise me, though. Older earbuds such as CampFred 1 which uses drivers from an Indonesian budget earbud still sound insanely good considering the driver. Also that very driver is now used in the ~$400 White CampFred 1 earbuds (which did sound like a big upgrade from CF 1 while still containing the CF 1 sound).


----------



## Zerohour88

doggiemom said:


> I don't think this comparison is very fair.  The Utopia retails for $4k.  Focal is an established company that has the financial resources, facilities, and expertise to devote to R&D.  Some of their speakers retail for upwards of $20,000, so they can use profits and research from their other products lines to venture into the relatively new market of high end personal audio.  An individual or small boutique manufacturer of earbuds just doesn't have the resources to match what a larger company like Focal can do, so the only way I can see the type of development you are asking for being done is if larger companies decide there is a market for earbuds.



same problem with chi-fi stuff, people complaining about chi-fi using pre-existing BA or DD and tunes them in multi or hybrid config and some complained "why don't they just develop a good single DD or BA".


----------



## silverfishla

doggiemom said:


> I don't think this comparison is very fair.  The Utopia retails for $4k.  Focal is an established company that has the financial resources, facilities, and expertise to devote to R&D.  Some of their speakers retail for upwards of $20,000, so they can use profits and research from their other products lines to venture into the relatively new market of high end personal audio.  An individual or small boutique manufacturer of earbuds just doesn't have the resources to match what a larger company like Focal can do, so the only way I can see the type of development you are asking for being done is if larger companies decide there is a market for earbuds.  The price of the finished product would then scale accordingly.  Focal does have an IEM product with a retail cost of $129 (an apparently it isn't that great), which seems to be towards the top end of what most here are willing to pay, and we are enthusiasts.  There won't be any significant driver development unless companies with $ see a market that will buy the product at a price point and in enough quantity to be profitable.
> 
> 
> 
> True, but I'd be curious to know what the labor cost breaks down to per hour.  The volume is pretty low as well, I doubt Herry is going to be putting a down payment on a new pad based on the 2 Red Dragon orders this year.    To me this is no different from a local artist selling some of their paintings or a lady who peddles handmade soaps at craft fairs......... They're not gonna retire off of their profits, but surely it is nice to recoup their costs and make some pocket money.  (And it probably helps when justifying all the time and money spent on a hobby to their spouses).


I think it’s fair to note that in countries like Thailand or Indonesia, a $200 profit goes a long way.  Exchange rates being 30 to 1.  Good for them for finding a market outside of their country that will pay very high prices.


----------



## activatorfly

Danneq said:


> When I met up with Herry in July at e-earphones store in Akihabara, I think I paid around 27 000 yen in cash for my pair of ZoomFred and he right away went and used that money to buy a second hand A&K DAP (I think AK120). The money got spent right away and both of us went home happy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Herry informed me that White CampFred uses a different membrane and coil than CampFred 1 - he didn't clarify whether the drivers used in White are the same as the originals?
I still rate CF1 very highly, however rather than upgrading to ZF - I'm still leaning towards TM9 - in order to contrast them with Blox signature....


----------



## mochill

Get the TM9


----------



## seanc6441

mochill said:


> Get the TM9


Everyone or...? XD


----------



## doggiemom

activatorfly said:


> Herry informed me that White CampFred uses a different membrane and coil than CampFred 1 - he didn't clarify whether the drivers used in White are the same as the originals?
> I still rate CF1 very highly, however rather than upgrading to ZF - I'm still leaning towards TM9 - in order to contrast them with Blox signature....


I recall reading somewhere (probably here, because I couldn't find any reference on EA or the Cypherus FB page) that the driver is the same as the original CampFred 1.  Sometimes I wonder if everything posted is accurate, or if we are just starting rumors amongst  ourselves.  

The Linsoul BLD 150ohm from Massdrop came today.  Aesthetically they are very nice:  pretty cable and connector.  They use Yuin shells, which I find really comfy.  The sound signature is neutral to slightly mid-forward.  Vocals are the strong point.  Some instruments sound a little muddy/sluggish.  These are not TOTL earbuds from a sound quality perspective, but are a good value at the Massdrop price, and look more expensive.


----------



## Danneq

Herry told me when we met that he even looks to buy used CampFred 1 to get the driver for use with White CampFred, but that second hand CF 1 rarely are sold.


----------



## mochill

seanc6441 said:


> Everyone or...? XD


Everyone


----------



## blackberriesandthinkpads

mochill said:


> Get the TM9



I think Blox has a bot on this thread. Same post every few pages, lol.

mochill must really like his TM9.

What other TOTL buds have you had mochill?


----------



## seanc6441

mochill said:


> Everyone


It would contrast with the Rose Mojito nicely I'd imagine... But I really want that K's bud and that'll cost an arm and a leg so I gotta save up for that.

Maybe if by some luck one goes up on the FS section in a few months for a good price


----------



## activatorfly

Danneq said:


> Herry told me when we met that he even looks to buy used CampFred 1 to get the driver for use with White CampFred, but that second hand CF 1 rarely are sold.


That's interesting that he's trying to track them down for the driver - I bought mine second hand! lol


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> It would contrast with the Rose Mojito nicely I'd imagine... But I really want that K's bud and that'll cost an arm and a leg so I gotta save up for that.
> 
> Maybe if by some luck one goes up on the FS section in a few months for a good price


Likewise I'd be in the queue (if I haven't bought them by then!)


----------



## mochill

seanc6441 said:


> It would contrast with the Rose Mojito nicely I'd imagine... But I really want that K's bud and that'll cost an arm and a leg so I gotta save up for that.
> 
> Maybe if by some luck one goes up on the FS section in a few months for a good price


No need for other earbuds


----------



## mochill

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> I think Blox has a bot on this thread. Same post every few pages, lol.
> 
> mochill must really like his TM9.
> 
> What other TOTL buds have you had mochill?


I have now , the TM9 , mojito , stardust . Had all the VE earbuds and as well as the TM7


----------



## Danneq

mochill said:


> I have now , the TM9 , mojito , stardust . Had all the VE earbuds and as well as the TM7



Give Cypherus earbuds a try as well!


----------



## mochill

If I had money^_^


----------



## Zoule (May 26, 2022)

.


----------



## mochill

Been 3 years since I last bought any audio gears, only because it was blox I had to splurge on audio


----------



## activatorfly

Danneq said:


> Give Cypherus earbuds a try as well!


Best to have both imho.....


----------



## activatorfly

Zoule said:


> Hey guys, I'm in the search for some TOTLs and I'm curious for your opinions. I want some earbuds that are similar to my iSine10s, particularly with linear bass, quick decay, and good detail. Based on my research, I think the EBX might be a good fit. Are they? Are there some others that might be better?


Tbh...I returned my iSine10s - in my opinion I thought they were vastly overpriced. You could try EBX....or EB2 - for a smaller form factor & more comfortable fit.....


----------



## Zoule

activatorfly said:


> Tbh...I returned my iSine10s - in my opinion I thought they were vastly overpriced. You could try EBX....or EB2 - for a smaller form factor & more comfortable fit.....


I like my iSines, but man are they are uncomfortable. That's why I'm leaning towards buds, but I want a TOTL pair that has the level of detail of the iSines. Do you think the EBX or the EB2 are at that level?


----------



## activatorfly

Zoule said:


> I like my iSines, but man are they are uncomfortable. That's why I'm leaning towards buds, but I want a TOTL pair that has the level of detail of the iSines. Do you think the EBX or the EB2 are at that level?


I thought they were ridiculously uncomfortable.....they're a distant memory now thankfully! (got refunded within days!)
I'd totally recommend EB2 ...great detail retrieval with none of the harsh sibilance of the iSines..and the small matter of being $426 less!!! lol


----------



## activatorfly

Zoule said:


> I like my iSines, but man are they are uncomfortable. That's why I'm leaning towards buds, but I want a TOTL pair that has the level of detail of the iSines. Do you think the EBX or the EB2 are at that level?


Yes they are:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...41cc-46af-bf53-5c8cfd64ed3a&priceBeautifyAB=0


----------



## Zoule

activatorfly said:


> Yes they are:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...41cc-46af-bf53-5c8cfd64ed3a&priceBeautifyAB=0


Man, for only $30 I think I'll definitely get a pair now. Thanks!


----------



## Matarro

ClieOS said:


> No foam is included (for obvious reason), but yes, you do get a pair of silicone as well as a pair of winged silicone eartips.


Thanks for the info!


----------



## chinmie

mochill said:


> If I had money^_^



sell your other buds, you only need the TM9 (and the Cypherus)


----------



## chinmie

Danneq said:


> Herry told me when we met that he even looks to buy used CampFred 1 to get the driver for use with White CampFred, but that second hand CF 1 rarely are sold.



same as the Abnormal guys, they would buy people's old monks and diomnes lv1 so they can make the Diomnes Lv2. just last week there's also Dipios (the rarest pokemon buds from abnormal) being sold at my local forum's auction


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 22, 2018)

Zoule said:


> Man, for only $30 I think I'll definitely get a pair now. Thanks!


You should get a pair they are excellent for the price... But I don't think they will live up to your expectations bass wise without EQ though. It's not extended flat enough into the sub bass to be considered 'linear' IMO.

I'm hard pressed to think of an earbud I own that truly has close to linear bass with only some drop off at the 20-30 hz range. K's Ling is the best I have for that but it has slightly more than 'flat' mid bass and slightly less than neutral sub bass (so it's more like a regular dynamic driver headphone bass level)

Your best bet is to get an earbud known for it's bass extension and then EQ it to sound as flat as possible. Otherwise you'll have to except the limitations of the form factor here.


----------



## Zoule

seanc6441 said:


> You should get a pair they are excellent for the price... But I don't think they will live up to your expectations bass wise without EQ though. It's not extended flat enough into the sub bass to be considered 'linear' IMO.
> 
> I'm hard pressed to think of an earbud I own that truly has close to linear bass with only some drop off at the 20-30 hz range. K's Ling is the best I have for that but it has slightly more than 'flat' mid bass and slightly less than neutral sub bass (so it's more like a regular dynamic driver headphone bass level)
> 
> Your best bet is to get an earbud known for it's bass extension and then EQ it to sound as flat as possible. Otherwise you'll have to except the limitations of the form factor here.


Hmm...what do you think are some earbuds with good bass extension other than the Ling? Do you have recommendations for earbuds that are fairly neutral, maybe not with a linear bass, but that can be EQ'ed to have one(I do like a little more sub though. lol)? To be honest, I really just want an earbud that comes as close as possible to a full headphone experience.


----------



## HungryPanda

Earbuds with bass, of mine Faaeal Snow Lotus 2, NiceHCK EB2, Seahf 150, Seahf 320 and higher ohm K's 600


----------



## bhima (Sep 23, 2018)

Danneq said:


> About 10 years ago about $35 was my limit for earbuds or earphones (Yuin PK3). A couple of months later it was $60 (Yuin PK2). Then I got into vintage Sony and Aiwa earbuds and the spending limit increased a lot. Now I can spend up to $400 without a problem. I have spent over $400 once on a pair of earbuds (Cypherus Red Dragon). I do not regret is as they truly can compete with high end headphones. Really! Also it was the only pair in existence at the time and when I had a chance to buy them second hand I just had to do it!
> Herry of Cypherus told me that 2 more orders for Red Dragon has been made this year - both asking for different custom tunings. One asked for tuning like Audeze LCD 3 and one asked for tuning like Focal Elear. Not sure if my pair is tuned to replicate any particular headphone sound signature. It's just perfectly balanced between lows, mids and highs with exquisite and ultra realistic timbre of instruments and a wide and deep soundstage with first class instrument layering and positioning. The only earbuds I've ever heard that do not lack in any aspect what so ever. Except for the thick cable which makes them useless for portable use.
> 
> Anyway, your spending limit might go up with time. You might become tempted to try other TOTL earbuds once you get to hear Shozy BK. That's how it's been like for me. I am 100% sure that Red Dragon is my endgame earbud and that it can never be topped. But I still have ordered Blox TM9 and Simphonio Dragon 2+ in the last month.. A couple of months ago I bought Moondrop Liebesleid while in Japan (now for sale since it's not really my type of sound signature). This hobby can become like a poison. But a sweet poison it is!
> ...



Thanks for the background Danny. I know expensive headphones aren't in the cards for awhile as the wife and I are on a tight budget until the kids get out of daycare ($2k a month for daycare zomfg. Could buy Focal Elears every month and have left over money!).

I do not have any silicone rings, though I'd be more than open to try some to potentially get a better and more comfortable fit with the yincrows as really like their sound. Just got the Willsound PK16, and I'm quite happy with them though I think the Yincrows are a little more natural across the frequency range, but the Willsounds fit perfectly.


----------



## seanc6441

Zoule said:


> Hmm...what do you think are some earbuds with good bass extension other than the Ling? Do you have recommendations for earbuds that are fairly neutral, maybe not with a linear bass, but that can be EQ'ed to have one(I do like a little more sub though. lol)? To be honest, I really just want an earbud that comes as close as possible to a full headphone experience.


What's your budget approximately it will help us get an idea of what to suggest.

There's a few that may give you that experience of full size cans with high quality bass but they would be a bit pricey.

Also anyone new to earbuds should try one of the budget ones first and then if all is good opt for a higher end earbud. That way you will not be disappointed by fit issues or anything.


----------



## Zoule

seanc6441 said:


> What's your budget approximately it will help us get an idea of what to suggest.
> 
> There's a few that may give you that experience of full size cans with high quality bass but they would be a bit pricey.
> 
> Also anyone new to earbuds should try one of the budget ones first and then if all is good opt for a higher end earbud. That way you will not be disappointed by fit issues or anything.


Don't worry about the budget, I just want a pair that really sound the best. I do have a couple of cheaper earbuds (monks, yincrow x6, diy graphenes), I'm just ready to get some top-tier earbuds now.


----------



## bhima

ra990 said:


> I got the zoomfred (used) and I am very impressed. I wrote to CAX asking for a quote on the red dragons and they quoted $680...that's crazy. How good can those be? Anyone own them?


Danny owns them, and he sounds like a man that could die happy with them. Having said that, $680 is a bit too close in price to the Focal Elex. I personally couldn't justify that kind of money for earbuds unless I heard them, and the Elex, and the earbuds were better. AND they came with a lifetime warranty.


----------



## bhima

handwander said:


> Someone link me a black yuin shell, slightly bassy, possible panda pk2s upgrade earbud for less than $40 usd.


Willsound PK32.

I am listening to the brighter, slightly more analytical PK16's and they sound fantastic for $40. Uses the same black Yuin PK shell. The PK32 is supposed to be bassier than the PK16s.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 23, 2018)

Zoule said:


> Don't worry about the budget, I just want a pair that really sound the best. I do have a couple of cheaper earbuds (monks, yincrow x6, diy graphenes), I'm just ready to get some top-tier earbuds now.


Oh right, well there's the K's earbuds that have great bass and energetic treble and I'll probably be purchasing the new release in 2 months of their next TOTL earbud for around $430.

There's the Cypherus earbuds like Zoomfred/Pro and Red Dragon, the former being somewhere around $300 (or $400 maybe) i think and the latter around $700. The latter being arguably the best earbud in existance.

There's the blox TM9 which is $289 and is the latest hyped TOTL for its grand soundstage and smoothness. But maybe not for bass quantity/extension? Don't have it so cannot say for sure.

There's some impressions on all of those if you'd like to check them out. I really think the K's Ling slight V (which really sounds more like a balanced but energetic headphone signature) is great for my tastes and would love to hear this new variant. But others love Cypherus buds tuning and the way you can opt for some customization to the sound on the red dragon or opt for the 'pro' driver on the zoomfred.


----------



## 40760

bhima said:


> Danny owns them, and he sounds like a man that could die happy with them. Having said that, $680 is a bit too close in price to the Focal Elex. I personally couldn't justify that kind of money for earbuds unless I heard them, and the Elex, and the earbuds were better. AND they came with a lifetime warranty.



Earbuds with lifetime warranty? So far I only know that the VE Zen Blacks or Whites comes with that...


----------



## Zoule

seanc6441 said:


> Oh right, well there's the K's earbuds that have great bass and energetic treble and I'll probably be purchasing the new release in 2 months of their next TOTL earbud for around $430.
> 
> There's the Cypherus earbuds like Zoomfred/Pro and Red Dragon, the former being somewhere around $300 (or $400 maybe) i think and the latter around $700. The latter being arguably the best earbud in existance.
> 
> ...


Man there's a lot of options. Thanks for all the suggestions! I guess its time for more research, but in the meantime I'll get those EB2s lol.


----------



## rkw

Zoule said:


> I guess its time for more research, but in the meantime I'll get those EB2s lol.


That's the best way to start. Being new to earbuds, you don't really know what you want yet. It may take going through a few before you figure it out, but fortunately that can be done much more affordably with earbuds than other types of headphones.


----------



## chinmie

bhima said:


> Willsound PK32.
> 
> I am listening to the brighter, slightly more analytical PK16's and they sound fantastic for $40. Uses the same black Yuin PK shell. The PK32 is supposed to be bassier than the PK16s.



mine is in a white shell, as it was the first batch prototype. the PK32 do have a bigger midbass, but the PK16 have a deeper reach, although the bass volume is less than the PK32. the PK16 and the Datura are my designated sleeping earbuds


----------



## RodRevenge

Guys a few questions what are the disadvantages of the pk shell or why is it less used? Also anyone knows the exact diameter?


----------



## chinmie

RodRevenge said:


> Guys a few questions what are the disadvantages of the pk shell or why is it less used? Also anyone knows the exact diameter?



usually less bass and/or less soundstage than the MX500 shell. it's around 16.2mm if I'm not mistaken


----------



## Danneq

mochill said:


> If I had money^_^



Yeah, that can be a problem. My salary is okay and this is pretty much the only hobby I spend money on. But I sell whatever I do not use or like and then use that money to try new stuff.



chinmie said:


> same as the Abnormal guys, they would buy people's old monks and diomnes lv1 so they can make the Diomnes Lv2. just last week there's also Dipios (the rarest pokemon buds from abnormal) being sold at my local forum's auction



Dipios would have been cool to try! I read about that one first and then bought Diomnes Lv2.



bhima said:


> Thanks for the background Danny. I know expensive headphones aren't in the cards for awhile as the wife and I are on a tight budget until the kids get out of daycare ($2k a month for daycare zomfg. Could buy Focal Elears every month and have left over money!).



Where do you live? The US? I complain about a lot of things in Sweden such as PostNord and Swedish healthcare but the high taxes we pay gives us cheaper services (well, sometimes cheap and bad service - for example a friend's wife who is from Ukraine recently was operated on and the operation had to be redone because of a mistake made. She complains about the low level of competence in Swedish healthcare, and when that comes from a Ukrainian it says a lot. The technological standard is high, but competence levels so so at best). But childcare is pretty good if you use municipal one (paid mainly by municipal taxes). Until my oldest kid turned 3 we paid around $110 a month and now it's about $70 a month. When the younger brother starts there in about 4 months it will still be a little less than $200 a month for 2 kids.



palestofwhite said:


> Earbuds with lifetime warranty? So far I only know that the VE Zen Blacks or Whites comes with that...



Herry of Cypherus never said it out loud but I think he might repair broken Cypherus earbuds for free if you pay for shipping both ways. He said that if I got any problems with the ZoomFred that I canot fix myself I can send it to him to get it fixed. Some smaller DIY makers might reason like that.


----------



## rkw

bhima said:


> wife and I are on a tight budget until the kids get out of daycare ($2k a month for daycare zomfg. Could buy Focal Elears every month and have left over money!).


Been there, done that, and sorry to say but it gets worse — my daughter just started college. At top private US colleges, it works out to $2K per week (counting only weeks in session).


----------



## Decommo

Gee.. I have been away from this forum for so long and not sure when I was here last time. Can anyone recommend me one budget earbud for casual listening? My budget is under $30 and looking for non-fatiguing sound sig for long term listening. Is VE monk still the ideal option under $30?


----------



## redkingjoe

rkw said:


> Been there, done that, and sorry to say but it gets worse — my daughter just started college. At top private US colleges, it works out to $2K per week (counting only weeks in session).



Education is investment! 

Luckily, we stop bleeding. My son had already graduated from top graduate school in London! Although it costed us a total of US$140k per year, he got great job with fast promotion and high pay. The company even pays the tuition for his parttime Master from University of Oxford! 

When I recount my son’s spending, I asked myself : why don’t I spend just a few % of his education on my hifi? Anyway, it costs a kidney to get him educated, I gladly spend more money on my hobbies!


----------



## handwander

bhima said:


> Willsound PK32.
> 
> I am listening to the brighter, slightly more analytical PK16's and they sound fantastic for $40. Uses the same black Yuin PK shell. The PK32 is supposed to be bassier than the PK16s.


Possible purchase but also not black. I'm shallow and want black shells!!

I might just gamble one day on a pair of random "diy pk1/2" buds off Ali, e.g. these: 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/diy...parent-film-with-without-mic/32803268088.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Yui...al-copper-wire-super-quality/32366470027.html

Also on the topics of yuin shell or whatever these are called, the foams on my panda pk2s randomly came off and I wasn't home so I just wore them without foams, which I don't think I've ever done before. I think they were somehow more comfortable. The fact these aren't more used than mx500 are a crime.


----------



## Decommo

activatorfly said:


> I thought they were ridiculously uncomfortable.....they're a distant memory now thankfully! (got refunded within days!)
> I'd totally recommend EB2 ...great detail retrieval with none of the harsh sibilance of the iSines..and the small matter of being $426 less!!! lol



Someone already recommended earbud for the price of $30 which is what I exactly looked for. Thanks. I will give a try.


----------



## Fabi

Danneq said:


> Herry told me when we met that he even looks to buy used CampFred 1 to get the driver for use with White CampFred, but that second hand CF 1 rarely are sold.


Interesting hehe


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> Earbuds with bass, of mine Faaeal Snow Lotus 2, NiceHCK EB2, Seahf 150, Seahf 320 and higher ohm K's 600



Did you mean NiceHCK EB200?  You don't have an EB2... I do    Also, I thought the Seahf AWK-F150C belongs to me!


----------



## toear

seanc6441 said:


> Your best bet is to get an earbud known for it's bass extension and then EQ it to sound as flat as possible. Otherwise you'll have to except the limitations of the form factor here.





HungryPanda said:


> Earbuds with bass, of mine Faaeal Snow Lotus 2, NiceHCK EB2, Seahf 150, Seahf 320 and higher ohm K's 600



This was my strategy as well. I have had a couple of seahf 64ohm buds and have the eb2 and K's samsara incoming. I would also suggest the HE150 or he150 pro.


----------



## HungryPanda

I did mean the EB200 and I so have previous listening pleasure with the seahf 150


----------



## stimuz

Ugh, everyones opinions are so different on the bassy earbuds, not sure what to get.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 23, 2018)

stimuz said:


> Ugh, everyones opinions are so different on the bassy earbuds, not sure what to get.



That is because fit is different for different ears.  People have different types of music and different sources (phones, DAPs, simple desktop setups, super high end audio gear..).  Ear anatomy is different for different individuals.  There will never be any one best choice that is recommended by everyone.  Plus we do not all own the exact same buds.

If you can't listen to some ahead of time you will just need to jump in and order something.

Also most people are not just wanting BASS and not everyone agrees on what type of bass they want.  What is bassy to me might not be enough for you .  I do not want a huge quantity ... I want it to be good and to extend to the lower frequencies.

Oh, and when you do order, be excited, look forward to it.. and when it arrives expect to like it


----------



## nihontoman

stimuz said:


> Ugh, everyones opinions are so different on the bassy earbuds, not sure what to get.


Git the QianYun Qian69 because everyone kinda seems to agree it is bassy.


----------



## RodRevenge

chinmie said:


> usually less bass and/or less soundstage than the MX500 shell. it's around 16.2mm if I'm not mistaken


Thank you, it doesn't look like something that would bother me, especially since the mx500 is a little hard to fit in my left ear.


----------



## ValSilva

mbwilson111 said:


> Did you mean NiceHCK EB200? You don't have an EB2... I do  Also, I thought the Seahf AWK-F150C belongs to me!


I think It's gonna be one more husband murdered in this world today  So sad.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

All this friggen talk about EB2... 

I had just received EBX when the EB2 was released. My thinking is that I don't need a watered down baby version if I had the real thing. I am completely blown away by the EBX. Very full headphonish sound once I get them fitted properly. Also the cable is heavenly. 

Still waiting on more comparisons between the 2. 

Would love a bud that was MXshell or similar fit, with the mids and treble of the ebx, with a little more oomph and extension in the sub bass region.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 23, 2018)

ValSilva said:


> I think It's gonna be one more husband murdered in this world today  So sad.



nah, we will have dinner and watch a TV show when he gets home from work in a couple of hours... then listen to some music for a bit  The Seahf 150 is still in my list and in my possession!  I just think some people have so many buds that they no longer know what they have... lol.   Need to read the gear list now and again 

see what I did there... luring him in with food....hmmm...


----------



## Zerohour88

BadReligionPunk said:


> All this friggen talk about EB2...
> 
> I had just received EBX when the EB2 was released. My thinking is that I don't need a watered down baby version if I had the real thing. I am completely blown away by the EBX. Very full headphonish sound once I get them fitted properly. Also the cable is heavenly.
> 
> ...



thought the same thing too (then T0600 came out and I decided I can wait till 11.11 for the next EBX sale so I can wait for comparisons). EB2 was tempting, but already rocking the TO180 and loving it. Need a step up and EBX seems the way to go for now.


----------



## activatorfly

Recently re-purposed a disused C&C BH amp -  rehoused in an aluminum case lid (Qian39 ) - it's cool paired up with Cayin N3.....sounds as sweet as.....


----------



## bavinck

Zoule said:


> Don't worry about the budget, I just want a pair that really sound the best. I do have a couple of cheaper earbuds (monks, yincrow x6, diy graphenes), I'm just ready to get some top-tier earbuds now.


Check our Blur. Outstanding. My h/H has excellent extension on both ends and the soundstage is wide and deep.


----------



## ClieOS (Sep 23, 2018)

Here is some impression over PT25 vs. PT15:

PT15 is known for its good detail, fast speed, clean and slight bright sound, but the PT25 is tuned quite differently. Instead, it is more toward a warmish sound that centered around a good mid range. Vocal is well textured and weighted, giving a more thicker sound when compared to the lighter PT15. Needless to say PT25 doesn't quite have the same quantity of air as PT15, but in exchange it has a sweeter and more intimated vocal. Lower end also improved, though I won't call it bass heavy in any way. Treble, as expected from the warmer sound, isn't quite detailed as PT15, but not lacking either. In sum, it is a switch from the (more or less) analytical sound of PT15 to a more classic warm+smooth sound signature. As far as overall SQ goes, I reckon it is a small upgrade but stays within the same general level. One area of improvement is ergonomics - as much as I don't like Apple's products in general, the earpod'ish design is indeed very comfortable.


----------



## snip3r77

Zerohour88 said:


> thought the same thing too (then T0600 came out and I decided I can wait till 11.11 for the next EBX sale so I can wait for comparisons). EB2 was tempting, but already rocking the TO180 and loving it. Need a step up and EBX seems the way to go for now.


How much was ebx during sale


----------



## HungryPanda

The NiceHck EBX is a terrific earbud and built like a tank


----------



## chinmie

ClieOS said:


> Here is some impression over PT25 vs. PT15:
> 
> PT15 is known for its good detail, fast speed, clean and slight bright sound, but the PT25 is tuned quite differently. Instead, it is more toward a warmish sound that centered around a good mid range. Vocal is well textured and weighted, giving a more thicker sound when compared to the lighter PT15. Needless to say PT25 doesn't quite have the same quantity of air as PT15, but in exchange it has a sweeter and more intimated vocal. Lower end also improved, though I won't call it bass heavy in any way. Treble, as expected from the warmer sound, isn't quite detailed as PT15, but not lacking either. In sum, it is a switch from the (more or less) analytical sound of PT15 to a more classic warm+smooth sound signature. As far as overall SQ goes, I reckon it is a small upgrade but stays within the same general level. One area of improvement is ergonomics - as much as I don't like Apple's products in general, the earpod'ish design is indeed very comfortable.



thanks for clarifying, i already suspected that it would be warm sounding... if it was a blue shot of smoke, then i would have suspected it would be cold sounding


----------



## doggiemom

Zoule said:


> Hmm...what do you think are some earbuds with good bass extension other than the Ling? Do you have recommendations for earbuds that are fairly neutral, maybe not with a linear bass, but that can be EQ'ed to have one(I do like a little more sub though. lol)? To be honest, I really just want an earbud that comes as close as possible to a full headphone experience.


Under $50:  VUNBUD from Rholupat if you can find them in stock.  ~$100 on sale:  K's Samsara.  >$200 ZoomFred.  ZoomFred comes the closest in terms of soundstage.


mbwilson111 said:


> I just think some people have so many buds that they no longer know what they have... lol.   Need to read the gear list now and again


Who are you talking about?    I don't know anyone like that.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

snip3r77 said:


> How much was ebx during sale


I got mine from the recent sale for $78. I think 11/11 sale should be around $73ish from what I have heard from the past.


----------



## mbwilson111

doggiemom said:


> Who are you talking about?  I don't know anyone like that.



Not you!  I know that you know the name and the specs for every bud you own.  You have memorized the sound of every one and you know exactly where each one is at all times!


----------



## theoutsider

activatorfly said:


> Recently re-purposed a disused C&C BH amp -  rehoused in an aluminum case lid (Qian39 ) - it's cool paired up with Cayin N3.....sounds as sweet as.....


I like your amp.


----------



## subwoof3r

BadReligionPunk said:


> Would love a bud that was MXshell or similar fit, with the mids and treble of the ebx, with a little more oomph and extension in the sub bass region.


Definitely, the fit is the only real problem of EBX.
Depending on the fit, bass can be just excellent for some ears  (it's not my case too unfortunately..)
EBX drivers on PK2 shells would probably be the earbuds of the year.


----------



## doggiemom

mbwilson111 said:


> ... you know exactly where each one is at all times!


Unfortunately, only this part is true!


----------



## DAndrew

stimuz said:


> Ugh, everyones opinions are so different on the bassy earbuds, not sure what to get.



K's Samsara has very good bass, really great extension and is at a reasonable price if you get it on sale.


----------



## activatorfly

theoutsider said:


> I like your amp.


Thanks...I'm quite pleased with it tbh...much cooler than the original black case!


----------



## stimuz

DAndrew said:


> K's Samsara has very good bass, really great extension and is at a reasonable price if you get it on sale.



Well that's someone seconding that one. I guess I'll pick it up. Not really looking for basshead earbuds, just want bass well represented. I've heard some songs on certain iems and buds where it's just missing the subbass almost completely while on others its overpowering. Whats the sale price you saw? I tried checking history and it seems to float at that 150ish price.


----------



## HungryPanda

Just got my K's 500 balanced 2.5mm in my ears, liking them very much


----------



## bavinck

HungryPanda said:


> Just got my K's 500 balanced 2.5mm in my ears, liking them very much


How are they different from K600?


----------



## HungryPanda

A little brighter I think as this is my first listen, they have more energy than the K600 although I love the way the K600 envelops you and lets you just sink into the music.


----------



## HungryPanda

The soundstage on the K500 is certainly wider than the K600


----------



## DAndrew

stimuz said:


> Well that's someone seconding that one. I guess I'll pick it up. Not really looking for basshead earbuds, just want bass well represented. I've heard some songs on certain iems and buds where it's just missing the subbass almost completely while on others its overpowering. Whats the sale price you saw? I tried checking history and it seems to float at that 150ish price.



It is very well represented, not just quantity, about price iirc it goes as low as 90~95$ , but you will have to wait for one of their big sales like 11.11 which is in november :/

Theres also the possibility of adding coupons so it could get even lower, up to you if you want to wait


----------



## chinmie

HungryPanda said:


> The soundstage on the K500 is certainly wider than the K600



you should check out the Samsara too  
it has a more polished and mature sound compared to the K's 500


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> you should check out the Samsara too
> it has a more polished and mature sound compared to the K's 500



don't encourage him... just don't!


----------



## bavinck

mbwilson111 said:


> don't encourage him... just don't!


I was actually going to suggest blur when he was talking about the enveloping sound K600 gives. Guess I won't mention it then, good thing you stopped me.


----------



## snip3r77

subwoof3r said:


> Definitely, the fit is the only real problem of EBX.
> Depending on the fit, bass can be just excellent for some ears  (it's not my case too unfortunately..)
> EBX drivers on PK2 shells would probably be the earbuds of the year.



Ebx vs mx500 vs pk2 shells? Which is the largest?


----------



## mbwilson111

bavinck said:


> I was actually going to suggest blur when he was talking about the enveloping sound K600 gives. Guess I won't mention it then, good thing you stopped me.



You are all evil.


----------



## HungryPanda

MX500 are the biggest shells


----------



## handwander

Worldwide ban on mx500 and force a switch to docomo style


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> don't encourage him... just don't!



you're right, he has enough K's earbuds already. i won't auggest him anymore. .. 



but i don't see one in your list, might you be interested on the gorgeously looking Samsara?


----------



## doggiemom

mbwilson111 said:


> don't encourage him... just don't!


The Samsaras are really good.  I like them so much that I bought 2:  I carry one in my backpack for work, and the other is filed away in Case 7.    You could each get one!


----------



## chinmie (Sep 23, 2018)

handwander said:


> Worldwide ban on mx500 and force a switch to docomo style


no way, i (and my large ears) like the MX500 shell better. overall more versatile sound possibilities than the yuin's


----------



## handwander

chinmie said:


> no way, i (and my large ears) like the MX500 shell better. overall more versatile sound possibilities than the yuin's


Just layer them with like 8 pairs of foams until they fit!


----------



## chinmie

doggiemom said:


> The Samsaras are really good.  I like them so much that I bought 2:  I carry one in my backpack for work, and the other is filed away in Case 7.    You could each get one!



yup, loving this, it has similar sound to my Puresound PS100-500, but has a touch more sheen and more lively sound while the PS100-500 is more balanced


----------



## chinmie

handwander said:


> Just layer them with like 8 pairs of foams until they fit!



i have to call the multi foams experts like @DBaldock9 or @seanc6441 to do it, i don't have the patience 

the yuins are great for mid focused and intimate sound though, and because of the size, when the driver is tuned to reach low, the sub bass  would be tight and clear. 

not to mention the comfort. hard to compete with the yuins on that


----------



## bhima

handwander said:


> Worldwide ban on mx500 and force a switch to docomo style



Personally, I'm just jealous that many on this forum can comfortably wear MX500 shells and basically anything below it--because MX500 shells offer the highest potential sound quality in this form factor currently. I really only like PK shells. Also, whatever the shell is in the MX760 graphenes work for me as well. Everything else is a little too big and gets annoying after awhile.


----------



## Lothar101

Does anyone make shells larger than the MX500 ones for people with large ears?


----------



## doggiemom

Months ago I promised on the EA group to do a write up comparing the K's 500, 600, and Samsara editions.  I neglected to follow through because of a combination of busyness and laziness.  But now, just for @mbwilson111 and @HungryPanda,  here is the long overdue comparison of (what used to be) K's Earphones TOTL models:

*K's Highend (or at least they were when I bought them and neglected to write this up) Shoot Out!*

*Under consideration:*
⦁    K's 600 Ohm
⦁    K's 500 Ohm
⦁    K's 300 Ohm, Samsara edition

*Soundstage:  Winner is 600!*
⦁    500:  Good
⦁    600:  Excellent
⦁    Samsara:  Very good

*Imaging:  Very tight race, but winner is Samsara!*
⦁    500:  Good
⦁    600:  Excellent
⦁    Samsara:  Excellent - slight edge over 600

*Build/aesthetics:  Winner is Samsara!*
⦁    500:  Nice cable that is comparable to the Samsara's, though the braids are tighter
⦁    600:  Thinner than the 500 and Samsara, appears fragile
⦁    Samsara:  Excellent - looks sturdy and expensive​
*Notes from specific test tracks: * All tracks were of at least CD quality, with two (Radiohead and Soggy Bottom Boys) at 24bit/96kHz.   Source:  PC (Tidal or JRiver) > McIntosh D1100 > Cavalli Audio Liquid Gold > earbuds

⦁    Nuggets by Mura Masa:  This is my test track for thumpy bass.  The 600 win here for being impactful, with the Samsara a close second.  The bass on the 500 is thumpy and clear, but not particularly impactful.  Vocals sound best on the Samsara; on the 500 they are a bit thin.  Percussion is a tad siblant on the 500.
⦁    The System Only Dreams in Total Darkeness by The National:  The 600 is the winner here.  The trumpets and guitars sound a little sloppy and slow on the 500.  Details are noticeable with the 600 that were missing with the 500.  The Samsara has a more forward and full sound, which sacrifices some detail but makes for a more emotional presentation.
⦁    Paranoid Android by Radiohead:  The 600 and Samsara have good imaging and soundstage.  Once again, the 600 are more detailed whereas the Samsara is more musical.  Vocals sound recessed on the 500 by comparison, and the treble seems overly emphasized.
⦁    A Man of Constant Sorrow by The Soggy Bottom Boys:  The detailed presentation of the 600 works well with this track; the strings are plucky and life-like.  Instrumental details are sacrificed for more emphasis on vocals with the Samsara.  The 500 sound muffled by comparison.
⦁    Call It What You Want by Taylor Swift:  (Don't laugh, I like this song.)  I don't like the way her albums are mastered; they are loud and sound sibilant with many buds.  I am very sensitive to treble, and this track was too bright with the 500.  The presentation of the 600 is closer to neutral, while the Samsara emphasizes the bass slightly.​*
Conclusions:
*
The K's 500 are a visually appealing set of buds that are a nice introduction for those wishing to sample the K's high end lineup without springing for their TOTL models.  In my opinion (YRMV), the 600 and Samsara editions outperform the 500s, though in different ways:  the 600 are more accurate and detailed, while the Samsaras have a more fun and engaging presentation.

All three models have a respectable sound stage and the accurate placement one should expect at their price point.  For portable use, the 500 or Samsara are recommended over the 600.  The Samsara is best suited to listening in a noisy environment.


----------



## Holypal

Lothar101 said:


> Does anyone make shells larger than the MX500 ones for people with large ears?



Try this


----------



## theresanarc

I personally think those MX500 shells are too big....they aren't uncomfortable. I can wear them for hours as long as a foam is on them. The thing with earbuds though is that they sit further from your ear canal, a smaller diameter shell would be better so they sit a bit better in your canal imo (unless you have well-above average ears). The smaller ones can just be lodged in a bit deeper than the MX500. Problem is that even the smallest one I know (Qian39/Edifier H108/Monk Lite shell) is still not small enough in diameter, but I do get a closer sound with it than the MX500 shell (plus it's better for side sleeping as a bonus).


----------



## jogawag

Holypal said:


> Try this


At aliexpress
for 10 pair
https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32538890108.html
for 1 pair
https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32319879870.html


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> no way, i (and my large ears) like the MX500 shell better. overall more versatile sound possibilities than the yuin's


I prefer the Ling or other similar size bell shapes (around 14.5-15mm drivers mostly) because they fit like the pk shells but allow better space in the chamber for SQ.

I still think the standard mx500 setup with the plastic covers don't sound all that great, i think it's how the sound is firing through the outer holes only means its very hard to use foams that do not cover them and muddy the sound.

Any bell shape earbud with a front cover that's mostly open or atleast have venting centrally and out to the edge is what I opt for because they usually sound the most well rounded and don't seem to create much ill effects on the driver.


----------



## chinmie

doggiemom said:


> Months ago I promised on the EA group to do a write up comparing the K's 500, 600, and Samsara editions.  I neglected to follow through because of a combination of busyness and laziness.  But now, just for @mbwilson111 and @HungryPanda,  here is the long overdue comparison of (what used to be) K's Earphones TOTL models:
> 
> *K's Highend (or at least they were when I bought them and neglected to write this up) Shoot Out!*
> 
> ...



well i guess the K's wave is back?


----------



## snip3r77

bhima said:


> Personally, I'm just jealous that many on this forum can comfortably wear MX500 shells and basically anything below it--because MX500 shells offer the highest potential sound quality in this form factor currently. I really only like PK shells. Also, whatever the shell is in the MX760 graphenes work for me as well. Everything else is a little too big and gets annoying after awhile.


Is Vido using mx500 shells?


----------



## RodRevenge

snip3r77 said:


> Is Vido using mx500 shells?


Yes.


----------



## doggiemom

chinmie said:


> well i guess the K's wave is back?


It was always coming, it just took along time to hit land because this Jersey resident has been too busy with work to propel it along.  But it WAS always building power and steam and gathering more impressions on it’s journey.

Seriously, I hope this was helpful.  It took some time and I don’t know how to write about audio very well, but would be happy to do something simliar for other buds if it would help anyone.


----------



## snip3r77

doggiemom said:


> Months ago I promised on the EA group to do a write up comparing the K's 500, 600, and Samsara editions.  I neglected to follow through because of a combination of busyness and laziness.  But now, just for @mbwilson111 and @HungryPanda,  here is the long overdue comparison of (what used to be) K's Earphones TOTL models:
> 
> *K's Highend (or at least they were when I bought them and neglected to write this up) Shoot Out!*
> 
> ...


Bookmark


----------



## doggiemom

snip3r77 said:


> Bookmark


Thank you, that makes me feel happy.  I want to contribute here.


----------



## teston

doggiemom said:


> Months ago I promised on the EA group to do a write up comparing the K's 500, 600, and Samsara editions.  I neglected to follow through because of a combination of busyness and laziness.  But now, just for @mbwilson111 and @HungryPanda,  here is the long overdue comparison of (what used to be) K's Earphones TOTL models:
> 
> *K's Highend (or at least they were when I bought them and neglected to write this up) Shoot Out!*
> 
> ...


The overall sound of K's earbuds are very good, but I still think that K's earbuds have some peak at high mid and vocal that cause some flare to my ears (the K's 300 Samsara improved compare to the K's 500 but it still remain). Same with the Sennheiser MX985.
So they never get to my top favorites.


----------



## doggiemom (Sep 24, 2018)

teston said:


> The overall sound of K's earbuds are very good, but I still think that K's earbuds have some peak at high mid and vocal that cause some flare to my ears (the K's 300 Samsara improved compare to the K's 500 but it still remain). Same with the Sennheiser MX985.
> So they never get to my top favorites.


Honestly, they are not my all time faves.  Cypherus is.  K’s is second......or maybe I don’t own enough of another manufacturer’s products to make a fair statement there.  They are certainly a brand that I am loyal to.  As are VE and Wilsounds.

But Herry at CAX owns my ears.  ❤️


----------



## RodRevenge

Is there anything more triggering than people using IEM and Earbud as interchangeable concepts?


----------



## snip3r77

doggiemom said:


> Thank you, that makes me feel happy.  I want to contribute here.


No problem . Keep your venom coming lol


----------



## doggiemom (Sep 24, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> No problem . Keep your venom coming lol


I truly hope that is not the way that I am perceived.    I try to be positive and share my impessions and opinions, but if I see someone saying something that doesn’t make sense, it is in my nature to speak up.  I respect your feedback though, so will try to take into account how my words will come across before I hit post going forward.  I really do just love music though.


----------



## Lothar101

It's slang for he likes your review


----------



## tim0chan

doggiemom said:


> I truly hope that is not the way that I am perceived.    I try to be positive and share my oppressions and opinions, but if I see someone saying something that doesn’t make sense, it is in my nature to speak up.  I respect your feedback though, so will try to take into account how my words will come across before I hit post going forward.  I really do just love music though.


Venom=poison
In headfi the act of poisoning another individual would mean that you convinced him/her it's something that they need, aka need to buy xD


----------



## Lothar101

tim0chan said:


> Venom=poison
> In headfi the act of poisoning another individual would mean that you convinced him/her it's something that they need, aka need to buy xD



Thanks for the better explanation !!


----------



## doggiemom

tim0chan said:


> Venom=poison
> In headfi the act of poisoning another individual would mean that you convinced him/her it's something that they need, aka need to buy xD


thank you for explaining that to me!  Besides audio, my other hobby is reading, so I take things too literally.  But people should buy the samsara if they can be gotten for a good price during one of the Ali sales.    Not trying to ruin anyone’s marriage for sure!     Love, love this hobby and forum.


----------



## golov17

W.Ling very good with amp for female vocals


----------



## RobinFood

After shopping around for good PK shell earbuds that tick all the boxes, I got the crazy feeling to get the BS1 official.
While I am not sure I will like the fit, the sound descriptions sound great.
I am just wondering if it will be an upgrade though, right now I only use the Willsound MK2, and all my other earbuds don't hold a candle to it.


----------



## bavinck

RodRevenge said:


> Is there anything more triggering than people using IEM and Earbud as interchangeable concepts?


Eh, whatever. Device into ears, sound comes out. Not hard to see the mixup.


----------



## bavinck

doggiemom said:


> I truly hope that is not the way that I am perceived.    I try to be positive and share my impessions and opinions, but if I see someone saying something that doesn’t make sense, it is in my nature to speak up.  I respect your feedback though, so will try to take into account how my words will come across before I hit post going forward.  I really do just love music though.



Thanks for this. We hardly ever see such humility and kindness on the internet (or headfi) and it is so refreshing to see!


----------



## waynes world (Sep 24, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> The Linsoul BLD 150ohm from Massdrop came today.  Aesthetically they are very nice:  pretty cable and connector.  They use Yuin shells, which I find really comfy.  The sound signature is neutral to slightly mid-forward.  Vocals are the strong point.  Some instruments sound a little muddy/sluggish.  These are not TOTL earbuds from a sound quality perspective, but are a good value at the Massdrop price, and look more expensive.



@bonson figured that these Fengru DIY PK1 2.5mm 150ohm looked suspiciously similar to the Linsoul BLD 150ohms, so I bought a pair. Based on your description of the Linsoul's, I do think that they are most likely the same thing. I really like them, but I do need to pump up the bass for most of types of music I listen to. For the $21 I paid, they are definitely worth it if one is looking for a neutrali-sh budget bud.



doggiemom said:


> The Samsaras are really good.  I like them so much that I bought 2:  I carry one in my backpack for work, and the other is filed away in Case 7.    You could each get one!



I think am going to have to accept that I like bass and like "fun" sounding buds. This Samsaras talk is dangerous lol

Edit: I just got caught up on the posts. Keep your poison coming lol!



activatorfly said:


> Recently re-purposed a disused C&C BH amp -  rehoused in an aluminum case lid (Qian39 ) - it's cool paired up with Cayin N3.....sounds as sweet as.....



Nice re-packaging! I love the C&C BH amp as well. Small, great battery life, and simply works well. And it's "SF" switch is some nifty kind of voodoo. I've used mine daily since I got it. Classic


----------



## j4100

Despite buying the EB2, I had given up thinking about buying any further buds. I just don't need any more!

11.11 is just around the corner though...

PS. Interesting to see this thread busier than ever. Long live earbuds and the thread aficionados.


----------



## activatorfly (Sep 24, 2018)

waynes world said:


> Nice re-packaging! I love the C&C BH amp as well. Small, great battery life, and simply works well. And it's "SF" switch is some nifty kind of voodoo. I've used mine daily since I got it. Classic


Been using it for years...always vowed never to neglect it. However after acquiring various DAP's/amps such as Walnut F1 etc - I subsequently prefer balanced output, so the C&C BH got sidelined.
Ok it's only a class D amp, but I agree the battery life is awesome (> 60 hours!) - & the killer feature definitely is the voodoo-style "SF" switch - so wish ALL amps had one!! lol
- Perceptibly, it seems to expand the soundstage - whilst also magically changing the tonality of the frequency response...bazinga!


----------



## activatorfly

^ see above lol


----------



## toear

On the HE 150PROs...
Just thought I would throw this out there for anyone who likes a slight dark signature with good extension up top and nice deep extension down low. I switch around between my buds every so often. Between all of the budget offerings I have DIY Pk1 150ohm, Seahf 64, DIY Graphenes, DIY 300ohms, MX365, PT15, Faael 64 (Snow lotus?), etc... the HE150PROs are just.... awesome! They have had 100s of hours of use now and I find them to be spacious, holographic, and full-can-like. While not like my HD6XX there is such a difference between these and my other buds... I thought maybe it was just my imagination but after specifically A/Bing them with my other buds (again) they are definitely... amazing! I think the big difference right now is that they do match my preferred sound sig almost perfectly (though this may be affected by the recording as I do find very often they are exactly what I want) when compared to my buds and work pretty much with everything I listen to, and they are indeed holographic (3D). Though maybe not as wide as some other buds, the depth is quite palpable to my ears in that the sound is in front of me, unlike many other buds I've tried where the sound is around/behind me. Any kind of live recording with crowd noise is fantastic....

Full-range ability (hi to low) and presentation (width and depth)... can-like and very comfortable.

Love them... hope my incoming K's Samsara will take this to a new level....!!


----------



## ClieOS (Sep 24, 2018)

activatorfly said:


> Been using it for years...always vowed never to neglect it. However after acquiring various DAP's/amps such as Walnut F1 etc - I subsequently prefer balanced output, so the C&C BH got sidelined.
> Ok it's only a class D amp, but I agree the battery life is awesome (> 60 hours!) - & the killer feature definitely is the voodoo-style "SF" switch - so wish ALL amps had one!! lol
> - Perceptibly, it seems to expand the soundstage - whilst also magically changing the tonality of the frequency response...bazinga!



Class AB to be correct, as with most portable amp.


----------



## Ziggomatic

toear said:


> On the HE 150PROs...
> Just thought I would throw this out there for anyone who likes a slight dark signature with good extension up top and nice deep extension down low. I switch around between my buds every so often. Between all of the budget offerings I have DIY Pk1 150ohm, Seahf 64, DIY Graphenes, DIY 300ohms, MX365, PT15, Faael 64 (Snow lotus?), etc... the HE150PROs are just.... awesome! They have had 100s of hours of use now and I find them to be spacious, holographic, and full-can-like. While not like my HD6XX there is such a difference between these and my other buds... I thought maybe it was just my imagination but after specifically A/Bing them with my other buds (again) they are definitely... amazing! I think the big difference right now is that they do match my preferred sound sig almost perfectly (though this may be affected by the recording as I do find very often they are exactly what I want) when compared to my buds and work pretty much with everything I listen to, and they are indeed holographic (3D). Though maybe not as wide as some other buds, the depth is quite palpable to my ears in that the sound is in front of me, unlike many other buds I've tried where the sound is around/behind me. Any kind of live recording with crowd noise is fantastic....
> 
> Full-range ability (hi to low) and presentation (width and depth)... can-like and very comfortable.
> ...



I'd be interested in your thoughts on how they compare. I'm a big 150Pro fan as well (I like them for the same reasons as you), and the Samsara is on my list...


----------



## toear

Ziggomatic said:


> I'd be interested in your thoughts on how they compare. I'm a big 150Pro fan as well (I like them for the same reasons as you), and the Samsara is on my list...


Will do!.... if they ever get here...


----------



## RodRevenge

bavinck said:


> Eh, whatever. Device into ears, sound comes out. Not hard to see the mixup.


Not if you are looking for something to buy, i spent a lot of time searching for earbuds and everything i got was iems i didn't even know if there was a name for what i was looking for since most people mixed those names all the time, so it was a pretty obnoxious task.


----------



## Lothar101

Would EB2 be a good bud for all-around use prior to getting Willsound buds, or do they even compare?


----------



## activatorfly

Lothar101 said:


> Would EB2 be a good bud for all-around use prior to getting Willsound buds, or do they even compare?


Yes they're great all rounders!


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 24, 2018)

Lothar101 said:


> Would EB2 be a good bud for all-around use prior to getting Willsound buds, or do they even compare?


Overall they would compare quite well, great clarity and separation, wide SS and good balance throughout the spectrum.

Willsounds that I owned tend to favour fuller vocals (except pk32) and the mk2 I own for instance definitely has more bass, but sacrifices some smoothness and separation.

The EB2 is definitely the more refined FR in terms of being versatile for most genres and still sounds musical.


----------



## snip3r77

activatorfly said:


> Yes they're great all rounders!


Do they sound similar?


----------



## snip3r77

seanc6441 said:


> Overall they would compare quite well, great clarity and separation, wide SS and good balance throughout the spectrum.
> 
> Willsounds that I owned tend to favour fuller vocals (except pk32) and the mk2 I own for instance definitely has more bass, but sacrifices some smoothness and separation.
> 
> The EB2 is definitely the more refined FR in terms of being versatile for most genres and still sounds musical.


Probably eb2 is closer to mk3?


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 24, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> Probably eb2 is closer to mk3?


It's really close to pk32 tbh in terms of being wider than most earbuds, focus on clear mids and smooth detailed treble. Bass is slightly more linear on pk32 and slightly fuller -rounded on eb2(but not overly full or bassy in comparison to many other earbuds). Both have similar subdued but moderately extended sub bass.

Never heard the MK3 sorry.

I may be in the minority here but I don't like earbuds with soundstages

I think the BS1 Official still does what I want from a slightly mid centric earbud better than the EB2 or Pk32 or even shozy bk. But the EB2 way better value at it's discount price.


----------



## Lothar101 (Sep 24, 2018)

So the EB2 would be a noticeable upgrade in sound from say, MX500 Bro (earbud) or Vido or Monk+ for example then?  I still haven't seen a review anywhere on the MX500 Bro from NiceHCK. Any difference in size from MX500 shell? Also looking at the Faaeal Datura-X. Want a full rich sound with greater details than the MX500 Bro.


----------



## doggiemom

bavinck said:


> Thanks for this. We hardly ever see such humility and kindness on the internet (or headfi) and it is so refreshing to see!


I was drinking last night.    But thank you..... now back to my normal self.  
The Willsound MK1 VJC arrived today.  I am not really sure why I bought them........ I guess out of curiosity to see if a cable can really make a difference on a <$50 earbud. And because I am a sucker for custom/limited edition things.


----------



## chinmie

doggiemom said:


> I was drinking last night.    But thank you..... now back to my normal self.
> The Willsound MK1 VJC arrived today.  I am not really sure why I bought them........ I guess out of curiosity to see if a cable can really make a difference on a <$50 earbud. And because I am a sucker for custom/limited edition things.



i tried my friend's MMCX VJC cable once on my iem, nice supple cable


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 24, 2018)

Lothar101 said:


> So the EB2 would be a noticeable upgrade in sound from say, MX500 Bro (earbud) or Vido or Monk+ for example then?  I still haven't seen a review anywhere on the MX500 Bro from NiceHCK. Any difference in size from MX500 shell? Also looking at the Faaeal Datura-X. Want a full rich sound with greater details than the MX500 Bro.


The eb2 is not particularly full-rich unless the source has that warm quality or you use a tube amp maybe lol. It is however detailed, clear and with great separation.

It's more focused on being clear and smooth and has enough bass to sound well balanced but it's noticeably lean and clear on my V30.


----------



## Lothar101

seanc6441 said:


> The eb2 is not particularly full-rich unless the source has that warm quality or you use a tube amp maybe lol. It is however detailed, clear and with great separation.
> 
> It's more focused on being clear and smooth and has enough bass to sound well balanced but it's noticeably lean and clear on my V30.



Sounds like what I'm looking for. I'll be using it with a hybrid tube amp mostly at my desktop.


----------



## seanc6441

Lothar101 said:


> Sounds like what I'm looking for. I'll be using it with a hybrid tube amp mostly at my desktop.


Does that amp have that warm full sound associated with most tube amps? If so I can see how the eb2 would be a nice pairing in that case.


----------



## Lothar101

seanc6441 said:


> Does that amp have that warm full sound associated with most tube amps? If so I can see how the eb2 would be a nice pairing in that case.


I'm using different tubes than the stock ones and it is somewhat warmer. I think it brings out the details more. I should roll the op-amp in it as well but overall pretty pleased for when I get a chance to just sit and listen. Reminds me of my old Marantz receiver I had in the late 70's.


----------



## silverfishla

Lothar101 said:


> So the EB2 would be a noticeable upgrade in sound from say, MX500 Bro (earbud) or Vido or Monk+ for example then?  I still haven't seen a review anywhere on the MX500 Bro from NiceHCK. Any difference in size from MX500 shell? Also looking at the Faaeal Datura-X. Want a full rich sound with greater details than the MX500 Bro.


The EB2 is a good bud.  It has a really good clear vocal section.  It doesn’t have a very defined bass section though.  It’s hard to tell a bass note from a kick drum, for instance.  It has nice separation ands a wide soundstage.
The Datura X also has a pretty wide soundstage but it is altogether fuller sounding and more balanced.  It has a bigger and more defined bass section.  I like it better, but enjoy both.
The EB2 is small and comfortable while the Datura X is built very sturdily but also very comfortable.  I like the braided cable on the Datura better than the encapsulated cable on the EB2.  Both are nice, though.


----------



## snip3r77

silverfishla said:


> The EB2 is a good bud.  It has a really good clear vocal section.  It doesn’t have a very defined bass section though.  It’s hard to tell a bass note from a kick drum, for instance.  It has nice separation ands a wide soundstage.
> The Datura X also has a pretty wide soundstage but it is altogether fuller sounding and more balanced.  It has a bigger and more defined bass section.  I like it better, but enjoy both.
> The EB2 is small and comfortable while the Datura X is built very sturdily but also very comfortable.  I like the braided cable on the Datura better than the encapsulated cable on the EB2.  Both are nice, though.



A lot will be buying both because of this EVIL haha


----------



## waynes world

snip3r77 said:


> A lot will be buying both because of this EVIL haha



Well, I can vouch for the Datura - a lotta fun!


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 24, 2018)

silverfishla said:


> The EB2 is a good bud.  It has a really good clear vocal section.  It doesn’t have a very defined bass section though.  It’s hard to tell a bass note from a kick drum, for instance.  It has nice separation ands a wide soundstage.
> The Datura X also has a pretty wide soundstage but it is altogether fuller sounding and more balanced.  It has a bigger and more defined bass section.  I like it better, but enjoy both.
> The EB2 is small and comfortable while the Datura X is built very sturdily but also very comfortable.  I like the braided cable on the Datura better than the encapsulated cable on the EB2.  Both are nice, though.


Agreed but only on some tracks it's apperant that's why I boost the sub bass but don't touch the mid bass. Not because it's particularly mid-bassy or bloated but I feel like the bass needs to be tilted slightly to separate the sub bass from the upper bass. Adding a few DB at 16-32hz and boosting the 650hz 'low mids' helped define the bass.

There's also the question of how the foams are covering the back ports. The EB2 is particularly open on each side as much or more so than mx500 shells. How much foams are reducing the airflow would have a big impact on the low end performance.

Thicker foams would actually restrict more air flow and possibly tighten up the bass while helping sub bass impact with the seal.

What foams are you using out of curiosity?


----------



## silverfishla (Sep 25, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> A lot will be buying both because of this EVIL haha


I know!  So evil! 



seanc6441 said:


> Agreed but only on some tracks it's apperant that's why I boost the sub bass but don't touch the mid bass. Not because it's particularly mid-bassy or bloated but I feel like the bass needs to be tilted slightly to separate the sub bass from the upper bass. Adding a few DB at 16-32hz and boosting the 650hz 'low mids' helped define the bass.
> 
> There's also the question of how the foams are covering the back ports. The EB2 is particularly open on each side as much or more so than mx500 shells. How much foams are reducing the airflow would have a big impact on the low end performance.
> 
> ...


I'm using those $1 for a 100 Aliexpress foams.  I find them to be the best for these two buds.  I've used full foams on the EB2, and it brings up the bass...but it kind of floods out the best parts of that bud, and doesn't really add definition to the bass.  So, I let it do what I think it does best and leave it at that.  Still, I like it.
I don't use EQ, because I don't use my buds on my my computer (I could do it with Audinirvana or JRiver).  I usually use them straight from a DAP or with my DAP and portable amps.  DAP EQ's pretty much stink (at least the ones that I have).  So, EQing a bud for me, is not really an option (maybe the AP80 with the Mage8 EQ/DSP might work, but we'll see when I get that one).


----------



## chinmie

because my curiosity on the EX1000, a really nice friend of mine lent me his so i could try them out. now that i have tried them, I'm not lusting too much about it anymore, because the Samsara (and also the PS100-500) is pound per pound can match it's performance, and without the fatiguing treble of the EX. it does have a great large soundstage for an IEM, but in the earbud world, that size is more common. so in the world of semi-open IEMs, I'd rather put my money on even the same priced earbuds counterpart. muuuch better sound to price ratio in my personal opinion.

when compared to the closed IEMs, especially those with BA or hybrid tech however, then the choice might be more complicated, because they have different sets of weaknesses and strengths


----------



## Lothar101

Well, I ended up ordering the EB2's I'm hoping a warm sound source will make the difference for me. Really looking for more detail at this point. It isn't a search for the holy grail but would like a full sound across the spectrum. At a later point, I will be looking for the grail  but can't afford at this time.


----------



## snip3r77

Lothar101 said:


> Well, I ended up ordering the EB2's I'm hoping a warm sound source will make the difference for me. Really looking for more detail at this point. It isn't a search for the holy grail but would like a full sound across the spectrum. At a later point, I will be looking for the grail  but can't afford at this time.



Why does EB2 need a warm source?


----------



## ClieOS

Willsound MK1 Special Edition


----------



## golov17

ClieOS said:


> Willsound MK1 Special Edition


QLS 361?


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> QLS 361?



Yep.


----------



## Zerohour88

chinmie said:


> because my curiosity on the EX1000, a really nice friend of mine lent me his so i could try them out. now that i have tried them, I'm not lusting too much about it anymore, because the Samsara (and also the PS100-500) is pound per pound can match it's performance, and without the fatiguing treble of the EX. it does have a great large soundstage for an IEM, but in the earbud world, that size is more common. so in the world of semi-open IEMs, I'd rather put my money on even the same priced earbuds counterpart. muuuch better sound to price ratio in my personal opinion.



now that's tempting, was just discussing with a friend about ordering the EX1000 (or at least the EX800ST) since they're still comparable to even the Andromeda. Which version of the PS100-500, may I ask? looks a lot cheaper than the Samsara (if my googling is right).


----------



## snip3r77

ClieOS said:


> Willsound MK1 Special Edition


Can help compare with those totl more than usd100 de ?


----------



## snip3r77

golov17 said:


> QLS 361?


You all don’t use desktop dac and amp?


----------



## golov17

snip3r77 said:


> You all don’t use desktop dac and amp?


No


----------



## activatorfly (Sep 25, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Agreed but only on some tracks it's apperant that's why I boost the sub bass but don't touch the mid bass. Not because it's particularly mid-bassy or bloated but I feel like the bass needs to be tilted slightly to separate the sub bass from the upper bass. Adding a few DB at 16-32hz and boosting the 650hz 'low mids' helped define the bass.
> 
> There's also the question of how the foams are covering the back ports. The EB2 is particularly open on each side as much or more so than mx500 shells. How much foams are reducing the airflow would have a big impact on the low end performance.
> 
> ...


Just received VE Ex pack & attached rubber hoops with thick donuts to the EB2 - there's a definite boost of bass & sub bass - impressive value pack imo!


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 25, 2018)

silverfishla said:


> The EB2 is a good bud.  It has a really good clear vocal section.  It doesn’t have a very defined bass section though.  It’s hard to tell a bass note from a kick drum, for instance.  It has nice separation ands a wide soundstage.
> The Datura X also has a pretty wide soundstage but it is altogether fuller sounding and more balanced.  It has a bigger and more defined bass section.  I like it better, but enjoy both.
> The EB2 is small and comfortable while the Datura X is built very sturdily but also very comfortable.  I like the braided cable on the Datura better than the encapsulated cable on the EB2.  Both are nice, though.



Soundwise I love both the EB2 and the Datura X.  The EB2 is a bit  more comfortable for me.  I think it is a bit smaller overall.



seanc6441 said:


> Thicker foams would actually restrict more air flow and possibly tighten up the bass while helping sub bass impact with the seal.



I am using the foams that were packaged with the EB2.  On the Datura X I have the thin foams to help them fit me better.  The fit was not good when I tried my husbands pair.. .he had thicker foams on them.  I tried no foams but that almost always results in any bud feeling slippery to me.


----------



## chinmie

Zerohour88 said:


> now that's tempting, was just discussing with a friend about ordering the EX1000 (or at least the EX800ST) since they're still comparable to even the Andromeda. Which version of the PS100-500, may I ask? looks a lot cheaper than the Samsara (if my googling is right).



mine is the classic version. I'd still suggest the Samsara as closer to that EX1000 though, as the PS100-500 has a thinner bass and slightly more forward mids than the EX. Samsara is more engulfing in soundstage than the PS100-500.


----------



## snip3r77

mbwilson111 said:


> Soundwise I love both the EB2 and the Datura X.  The EB2 is a bit  more comfortable for me.  I think it is a bit smaller overall.
> 
> 
> 
> I am using the foams that were packaged with the EB2.  On the Datura X I have the thin foams to help them fit me better.  The fit was not good when I tried my husbands pair.. .he had thicker foams on them.  I tried no foams but that almost always results in any bud feeling slippery to me.



Some silly questions 

Assume your ear is too small for mx500
So using any foam will make it worst , should one go without any foam ?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 25, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> Some silly questions
> 
> Assume your ear is too small for mx500
> So using any foam will make it worst , should one go without any foam ?



You would have to go without foam if using it makes the fit worse.  I think some people do.  I do not hear all the minute sound differences that sean does if I change foams.  I have to just go with what is comfortable for me.  This also means I do not use donuts because I would have to glue them on to keep them from sliding in weird ways on the bud.  Plus impossible for me to put them on anyway.

I do have a couple of buds that I use without foams but I can't remember which ones at the moment and I might change my mind when I next use them.


----------



## ClieOS

snip3r77 said:


> Can help compare with those totl more than usd100 de ?



 I'll give a burn-in first, but the first impression is excellent. It is a very full and loudspeaker like presentation. SQ isn't lacking either. I reckon we are talking at least a second tier flagship level, if not better.



snip3r77 said:


> You all don’t use desktop dac and amp?



I have some decent desktop gears, just that I don't spend much time in stationary location when listening to music so might as well invest into portable gears first.


----------



## Zerohour88

chinmie said:


> mine is the classic version. I'd still suggest the Samsara as closer to that EX1000 though, as the PS100-500 has a thinner bass and slightly more forward mids than the EX. Samsara is more engulfing in soundstage than the PS100-500.



thanks, that's another model added to my wishlist (EBX, K's Samsara/300) for the coming 11.11 sale. Justifying earbuds purchase is so much easier when I know I'll be using it almost all the time on the pc


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> mine is the classic version. I'd still suggest the Samsara as closer to that EX1000 though, as the PS100-500 has a thinner bass and slightly more forward mids than the EX. Samsara is more engulfing in soundstage than the PS100-500.



I tried the ex1000 a few months ago and couldn't see what the hype was about. It might not help that I felt the fit was horrible, that it didn't really give any isolation, and that I don't really like the Sony house sound usually.

All this talk about the Samsara though is getting me curious. You said it has even more bass presence than the Willsound MK2?! It seems to be a popular TOTL entry model, how does it compare to your other buds?


----------



## snip3r77

ClieOS said:


> I'll give a burn-in first, but the first impression is excellent. It is a very full and loudspeaker like presentation. SQ isn't lacking either. I reckon we are talking at least a second tier flagship level, if not better.
> 
> 
> 
> I have some decent desktop gears, just that I don't spend much time in stationary location when listening to music so might as well invest into portable gears first.



I have desk dac/amp and DAP but if I'm at home mostly I reach for my desk gear.
DAP is strictly on the go for me la~ If weekend I'd just use my iPhone, don't want to lug another extra item


----------



## snip3r77

ClieOS said:


> I'll give a burn-in first, but the first impression is excellent. It is a very full and loudspeaker like presentation. SQ isn't lacking either. I reckon we are talking at least a second tier flagship level, if not better.
> 
> 
> 
> I have some decent desktop gears, just that I don't spend much time in stationary location when listening to music so might as well invest into portable gears first.



I already have MK1 and MK3 in my "collection" LOLz


----------



## snip3r77 (Sep 25, 2018)

Anyone gotten the **** PT25 the red fart?


----------



## mbwilson111

snip3r77 said:


> Anyone gotten the **** PT25 the red fart?



Just need to search the thread a little... this is from two days ago


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2369#post-14500826


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> because my curiosity on the EX1000, a really nice friend of mine lent me his so i could try them out. now that i have tried them, I'm not lusting too much about it anymore, because the Samsara (and also the PS100-500) is pound per pound can match it's performance, and without the fatiguing treble of the EX. it does have a great large soundstage for an IEM, but in the earbud world, that size is more common. so in the world of semi-open IEMs, I'd rather put my money on even the same priced earbuds counterpart. muuuch better sound to price ratio in my personal opinion.
> 
> when compared to the closed IEMs, especially those with BA or hybrid tech however, then the choice might be more complicated, because they have different sets of weaknesses and strengths



I'm glad I'm not jamming things like that into my ears anymore!

Thanks for the impressions. Actually not, because I am starting to lust for the Samsara's, and that's not a good sign!

I'll have to read back in the thread to see if/when/where they ever go on sale. Maybe 11/11?


----------



## Zhatt

Thanks @waynes world @seanc6441 @mbwilson111 for your suggestions. I received my MEMT T5 last night and they're working great. They put the Samsung set to shame and in some ways they're better than my $100 Sennheiser headphones or my old $200 Beyerdynamic headphones. Obviously they don't have the same base range, and I wish there was a bit more to the low end, but the high-ends are amazing.

I got home late last night and was going to go straight to bed, but I has to try them out quickly. I put on _Villains by Queens of the Stone Age _(a band I suggest to anyone who likes music) and I ended up listening to the whole album. I feel like I was hearing some of my favorite songs for the first time again.

It should have been obvious to me from the description, but they really are completely metal pods. They're a bit cold on the ear when you first put them in but that passes quickly. They came with silicone tips but I find it fits better without them and they're not particularly well formed. I also received two left tips, but I think the pods are symmetrical anyways.

Considering the $15 pair my roommate bought isn't as half as good as these, for $30-$40 these are definitively worth it.


----------



## chinmie

ClieOS said:


> I'll give a burn-in first, but the first impression is excellent. It is a very full and loudspeaker like presentation. SQ isn't lacking either. I reckon we are talking at least a second tier flagship level, if not better.



so the willsound looks to be flagship level candidate in your opinion? 



Zerohour88 said:


> thanks, that's another model added to my wishlist (EBX, K's Samsara/300) for the coming 11.11 sale. Justifying earbuds purchase is so much easier when I know I'll be using it almost all the time on the pc



now that you mention it, i just remembered i have some curiosity to quench about the EBX...



waynes world said:


> I'm glad I'm not jamming things like that into my ears anymore!
> 
> Thanks for the impressions. Actually not, because I am starting to lust for the Samsara's, and that's not a good sign!
> 
> I'll have to read back in the thread to see if/when/where they ever go on sale. Maybe 11/11?



i hope they do go on sale soon so you can join the fun 



RobinFood said:


> I tried the ex1000 a few months ago and couldn't see what the hype was about. It might not help that I felt the fit was horrible, that it didn't really give any isolation, and that I don't really like the Sony house sound usually.
> 
> All this talk about the Samsara though is getting me curious. You said it has even more bass presence than the Willsound MK2?! It seems to be a popular TOTL entry model, how does it compare to your other buds?



i have a great fit with the EX1000, and i can definitely see why it is highly regarded by a lot of people, as this discontinued iem of the old can still compete with today's flagship. 

but i still won't go running to hunt them just yet, because i think i like my Kanas and Etys mid forward and engaging sound more on the iem side, and my earbuds pretty much beat it on soundstage.

the Samsara has a bit of a midbass more than the MK2, but not by much. i still like the MK2 raw and lively tone. the Samsara sounds more polished, for better or worse. I'm happy with them both


----------



## cocolinho

ClieOS said:


> I'll give a burn-in first, but the first impression is excellent. It is a very full and loudspeaker like presentation. SQ isn't lacking either. I reckon we are talking at least a second tier flagship level, if not better.
> 
> 
> 
> I have some decent desktop gears, just that I don't spend much time in stationary location when listening to music so might as well invest into portable gears first.


Where did you get them ? What is special ? Cable ?
Thanks


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Zhatt said:


> Thanks @waynes world @seanc6441 @mbwilson111 for your suggestions. I received my MEMT T5 last night and they're working great. They put the Samsung set to shame and in some ways they're better than my $100 Sennheiser headphones or my old $200 Beyerdynamic headphones. Obviously they don't have the same base range, and I wish there was a bit more to the low end, but the high-ends are amazing.
> 
> I got home late last night and was going to go straight to bed, but I has to try them out quickly. I put on _Villains by Queens of the Stone Age _(a band I suggest to anyone who likes music) and I ended up listening to the whole album. I feel like I was hearing some of my favorite songs for the first time again.
> 
> ...



Honestly that's freaking awesome that these made you listen to the whole album. Now stay they eff away from here or prepare yourself some room in a drawer somewhere for the many multiple pairs of cheap Chi-fi stuff you will be sucked into buying.


----------



## seanc6441

snip3r77 said:


> Why does EB2 need a warm source?


Doesn't need it per say i just found that on brighter gear the mids lack some weight. Also its clear enough from mids-treble to not be muddied by a warmer source.

I use it on my V30 which is fairly bright but I EQ it for extra sub bass and low mids. Actually I EQ the treble too but I guess I'm just a treble head xD


----------



## paolixi

hi guys, im new to the thread and to the earbud world. im waiting for monks and other 5euro buds like vido to arrive, but im sure i will want to try some serius stuff in the near future. Im attacted by the shozy bk, the zen 2.0, and the nicehck ebx. my favorite headphone is dhe hd600 so im looking for a balanced sound. any suggestion? thanks


----------



## seanc6441

snip3r77 said:


> Some silly questions
> 
> Assume your ear is too small for mx500
> So using any foam will make it worst , should one go without any foam ?


Why don't you try the aliexpress thin foams they add very little bulk. You can go foamless but many earbuds will not sound full this way as they are tuned to be used with some foams.

Also on mx500 type shells the foams act as a restriction to airflow on the back port. So foamless you will get a different sound as you are essential leaving the back ports more open.

Generally the more open something is the more emphasis you get around mid bass and low mids.

Thin foams will provide some treble dampening and some restriction to tighten the bass.


----------



## seanc6441

paolixi said:


> hi guys, im new to the thread and to the earbud world. im waiting for monks and other 5euro buds like vido to arrive, but im sure i will want to try some serius stuff in the near future. Im attacted by the shozy bk, the zen 2.0, and the nicehck ebx. my favorite headphone is dhe hd600 so im looking for a balanced sound. any suggestion? thanks


What's your source player friend? That will help decide which gear is most suitable


----------



## HungryPanda

Listening to the Datura-X today. These are quite amazing earbuds for the price


----------



## Asian8640 (Sep 25, 2018)

paolixi said:


> hi guys, im new to the thread and to the earbud world. im waiting for monks and other 5euro buds like vido to arrive, but im sure i will want to try some serius stuff in the near future. Im attacted by the shozy bk, the zen 2.0, and the nicehck ebx. my favorite headphone is dhe hd600 so im looking for a balanced sound. any suggestion? thanks



Hi, welcome to the thread. I'm more or less starting out as well, as I only have a few pairs of earbuds. However, the HD 600's have been my reference until I sold them yesterday. As much as I loved them, the low end distortion and what I can only describe as a barrel effect for the sound-stage kept me from keeping them around longer before they depreciated from sporadic use. I personally would suggest a pair of Edifier H180's as a good place to start. There are few reasons for this.


The Edifier is relatively cheap at 13 from Amazon.
From measurements on this forum, it has very similar frequency response to the Shozy BK in which you expressed interest. 

It is smaller than the very popular mx500 style shell which some people find too large, and if you haven't tried an earbud before, you can just layer foams on for a better seal.

For my ears, it's a relatively balanced earbud, and I own five pairs. Why five? I like the first one, purchased backups, opened two more just to test for manufacturing variances. As they are budget buds, there are variances and I wanted to experience a small portion of that variance. They were all very close, with very little difference in how they sounded, so even though the sample size is small, they seem to be consistent so far through both colors (black and white).  Please note I'm using the H180's, not the P180's. The P180's have a inline microphone so I can make no comment on that model as I have no experience with it.

They were well received by both members of this thread and the general public (Amazon reviews), so it at least seems to have broad appeal. If you don't like them, it shouldn't be too much of a financial burden. If you want to sell them, just send me a PM and I'll be happy to take them off your hands at a price of $10.50 shipped. 

I love my pairs of H180's and its my current bud over competitors such as the NiceHCK Vido, Senneheiser MX 365, VE Monk +, and VE Asura 2 (in my opinion the worse of the bunch despite being more than four times the price of all the other previously mentioned earbuds due to its piercing highs combined with a lack of bass extension and quantity).

ONE MORE THING TO NOTE that is VERY IMPORTANT: What music do you listen to and how do you listen to it?


----------



## ClieOS

chinmie said:


> so the willsound looks to be flagship level candidate in your opinion?



Too early to say for sure, but the first impression certainly suggest it is at the least a very good sounding earbud.



cocolinho said:


> Where did you get them ? What is special ? Cable ?
> Thanks



WillSound can be found on Facebook, he is also a member here. The 'special' part is probably because it uses a different cable than the normal MK1. Given I have never listened to a normal MK1 before, I really can't tell you the difference in sound.


----------



## Asian8640

Another thing, and I hope I'm not out of line, but would anyone be interested in purchasing my Willsound PK32's? They were made in a custom colorway by request and have about 10 hours of use on them. I thought I'd post here as earbuds seem to be a rather niche subset of audio reproduction these days despite their resurgence in places like China and Indonesia.


----------



## chinmie

ClieOS said:


> Too early to say for sure, but the first impression certainly suggest it is at the least a very good sounding earbud.
> 
> 
> 
> WillSound can be found on Facebook, he is also a member here. The 'special' part is probably because it uses a different cable than the normal MK1. Given I have never listened to a normal MK1 before, I really can't tell you the difference in sound.



thanks, at least your view on the willsound helps me to say to myself that I'm not crazy of putting them on really high level on my list from the first time i heard them 

i have the 8 braided MK300 and the standard version. when i discussed this with Willy, he confirmed my experience that the 8 braided ones sounds fuller/fatter, but also slightly mellower (similar to putting a higher impedance adapter) , while the standard cable version sounds leaner and clearer. i suspect that would have the same effect on the MK


----------



## theresanarc

Asian8640 said:


> Hi, welcome to the thread. I'm more or less starting out as well, as I only have a few pairs of earbuds. However, the HD 600's have been my reference until I sold them yesterday. As much as I loved them, the low end distortion and what I can only describe as a barrel effect for the sound-stage kept me from keeping them around longer before they depreciated from sporadic use. I personally would suggest a pair of Edifier H180's as a good place to start. There are few reasons for this.
> 
> 
> The Edifier is relatively cheap at 13 from Amazon.
> ...


Actually you can get them for $7 right now from the Edifier store on AE. The store has a $4 off 10+ store coupon and their regular price on there is $10.99 so that's $7 with the coupon. And their small shell is exactly why I like the tree popular headphones using that shell (Qian39/Monk Lite being the others). They're all cheaper than most of the mx500 shells, they're more durable since imo, the mx500 ones aren't unless you get a nicer wire and re-wire them, and they fit much better.


----------



## snip3r77

chinmie said:


> thanks, at least your view on the willsound helps me to say to myself that I'm not crazy of putting them on really high level on my list from the first time i heard them
> 
> i have the 8 braided MK300 and the standard version. when i discussed this with Willy, he confirmed my experience that the 8 braided ones sounds fuller/fatter, but also slightly mellower (similar to putting a higher impedance adapter) , while the standard cable version sounds leaner and clearer. i suspect that would have the same effect on the MK





chinmie said:


> thanks, at least your view on the willsound helps me to say to myself that I'm not crazy of putting them on really high level on my list from the first time i heard them
> 
> i have the 8 braided MK300 and the standard version. when i discussed this with Willy, he confirmed my experience that the 8 braided ones sounds fuller/fatter, but also slightly mellower (similar to putting a higher impedance adapter) , while the standard cable version sounds leaner and clearer. i suspect that would have the same effect on the MK



Thinking of the MK300 for my next purchase as I already have MK1 and MK3 LMAO


----------



## chinmie

snip3r77 said:


> Thinking of the MK300 for my next purchase as I already have MK1 and MK3 LMAO



it doesn't have the bass extensions of the MKs though, but really great for vocal music. my current favorite is the PK16 outside the MKs


----------



## handwander

Asian8640 said:


> Another thing, and I hope I'm not out of line, but would anyone be interested in purchasing my Willsound PK32's? They were made in a custom colorway by request and have about 10 hours of use on them. I thought I'd post here as earbuds seem to be a rather niche subset of audio reproduction these days despite their resurgence in places like China and Indonesia.


What colorway


----------



## Asian8640

handwander said:


> What colorway



That's odd. I linked a picture, but it doesn't show up. 
Here's a link to my sales page with photos. They are black shells with a blue cable.


----------



## chinmie

handwander said:


> What colorway


----------



## Asian8640

chinmie said:


>


Ah yes the standard response: ALL the colorways!


----------



## bhima

The more I listen to the Willsound PK16, the more I am off-put by them. There is some sort of congested/unnatural sound to them, as if the sound is almost under water. Will try and burn them in even longer. I'm not terribly happy with them. I think the Graphenes are better, even though their sound is a bit too artificial. Might have to just bite the bullet on the Shozy BK to get high quality sound out of a PK shell.


----------



## seanc6441

bhima said:


> The more I listen to the Willsound PK16, the more I am off-put by them. There is some sort of congested/unnatural sound to them, as if the sound is almost under water. Will try and burn them in even longer. I'm not terribly happy with them. I think the Graphenes are better, even though their sound is a bit too artificial. Might have to just bite the bullet on the Shozy BK to get high quality sound out of a PK shell.


Let me know if you want mine I'm gonna sell it. 2.5mm balanced version about 4 months old.


----------



## bhima (Sep 25, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Let me know if you want mine I'm gonna sell it. 2.5mm balanced version about 4 months old.


Dang it Sean, I probably would have if they were not the balanced version. Question: Why are you selling them? I'm sure they are in great condition, I'm just wondering why you don't want them anymore.


----------



## seanc6441

bhima said:


> Dang it Sean, I probably would have if they were not the balanced version.


No worries I just use my fiio adapter to use them in SE but if you aren't using balanced no point in spending extra.


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> No worries I just use my fiio adapter to use them in SE but if you aren't using balanced no point in spending extra.



Do you happen to notice any improvements when using balanced over SE for earbuds?


----------



## blackberriesandthinkpads

@Danneq I'm counting down your TM9 burn in hours!

Getting close soon!


----------



## golov17




----------



## chinmie

Asian8640 said:


> Ah yes the standard response: ALL the colorways!





palestofwhite said:


> Do you happen to notice any improvements when using balanced over SE for earbuds?



all depends on how your gear's design. on optimized system there's should be no difference except in output volume. but on some systems the balanced has a perceived wider stereo spread and slightly better extension.


----------



## blackberriesandthinkpads

golov17 said:


>



Stop teasing! 

I told myself I'm going to wait for Danneq's impression before deciding on the purchase as his sonic preference appears to be rather similar to mine.

But while you're hear, can you compare it Monk+.  It's the only bud I have for comparison.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> No worries I just use my fiio adapter to use them in SE but if you aren't using balanced no point in spending extra.



Why are you selling them? Why shouldn't I buy them from you???


----------



## waynes world

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> But while you're hear, can you compare it Monk+.  It's the only bud I have for comparison.



Poor Monk+'s!


----------



## 40760

chinmie said:


> all depends on how your gear's design. on optimized system there's should be no difference except in output volume. but on some systems the balanced has a perceived wider stereo spread and slightly better extension.



I have no balanced source to test my SWD2+, and I have just sent back my ZOE to trade it up for a Zen Black. Currently thinking if I should go with 2.5mm balanced for or SE for the Zen Black, that's why I was really curious as I had no way to tell. Part of me is thinking going balanced to future proof things... What do you think?


----------



## waynes world

palestofwhite said:


> I have no balanced source to test my SWD2+, and I have just sent back my ZOE to trade it up for a Zen Black. Currently thinking if I should go with 2.5mm balanced for or SE for the Zen Black, that's why I was really curious as I had no way to tell. Part of me is thinking going balanced to future proof things... What do you think?



I think it's a good idea. And for $100 you can get the ES100 to use your balanced gear


----------



## 40760

waynes world said:


> I think it's a good idea. And for $100 you can get the ES100 to use your balanced gear



I would love to add that to source gear one day... but is that good enough drive for 320 ohms?


----------



## chinmie

palestofwhite said:


> I have no balanced source to test my SWD2+, and I have just sent back my ZOE to trade it up for a Zen Black. Currently thinking if I should go with 2.5mm balanced for or SE for the Zen Black, that's why I was really curious as I had no way to tell. Part of me is thinking going balanced to future proof things... What do you think?



me personally would only see the benefit of balanced on high impedance earphones (for me 100 and up). unless you are planning to get DAP/DAC that have clearly better balanced path like for instance the ES100 that @waynes world  suggested. 

using balanced earbuds into SE output means using an adapter, which introduce another object on the signal path. some might hear a difference or degradation. i personally use a fiio adapter and doesn't hear any difference, but it is a minor inconvenience


----------



## 40760 (Sep 26, 2018)

chinmie said:


> me personally would only see the benefit of balanced on high impedance earphones (for me 100 and up). unless you are planning to get DAP/DAC that have clearly better balanced path like for instance the ES100 that @waynes world  suggested.
> 
> using balanced earbuds into SE output means using an adapter, which introduce another object on the signal path. some might hear a difference or degradation. i personally use a fiio adapter and doesn't hear any difference, but it is a minor inconvenience



Thanks for explaining! I think I got my answer and will go with 2.5mm balanced because the Zen itself is already 320 ohms and I'll maybe get a short adapter to go with it for the time being.

I can also understand the adapter thing since I'm already using my SWD2+ with the included adapter, out of my Chord Mojo connected to a laptop. Since I only use earbuds at home or in the office, I think it should not be a big issue because it's only desk bound usage.

That being said... my goal is to ultimately replace the Mojo with a decent desktop D/A... And hopefully have the chance to try the balanced output myself.


----------



## seanc6441

palestofwhite said:


> Do you happen to notice any improvements when using balanced over SE for earbuds?


From my limited experience... It's the source that makes the difference IMO. Some have better balanced, others are SE only buy sound amazing. Balanced will give you more power though.

I'm pretty sure the Chord products have only SE and those are praised as some of the best sounding gear around.


----------



## tim0chan

chinmie said:


> all depends on how your gear's design. on optimized system there's should be no difference except in output volume. but on some systems the balanced has a perceived wider stereo spread and slightly better extension.


Exactly... Many people just look at stats and say that there's no difference. But due to the design of the amp itself, there will never be a perfectly similar "sound" from both outputs. I urge everyone to understand that our ears have the last say. If it sounds good, get it.


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> From my limited experience... It's the source that makes the difference IMO. Some have better balanced, others are SE only buy sound amazing. Balanced will give you more power though.
> 
> I'm pretty sure the Chord products have only SE and those are praised as some of the best sounding gear around.



Thanks! That's true for the Mojo and I enjoy it's sound enough to have kept and use it as my sole desktop solution since it was released, even though it has only SE (albeit 2 outputs).

I have totally zero experience with balanced, but since my SWD2+ came with the 2.5mm, it kept me curious as I wasn't sure I've heard it's full potential using the adapter all the time.

Moving forward, I also didn't want to take any risks with the final decision on the termination of the Zen Black, since it's really expensive in my books...

BTW, what made you go with balanced for the Shozy Stardust?


----------



## seanc6441

palestofwhite said:


> Thanks! That's true for the Mojo and I enjoy it's sound enough to have kept and use it as my sole desktop solution since it was released, even though it has only SE (albeit 2 outputs).
> 
> I have totally zero experience with balanced, but since my SWD2+ came with the 2.5mm, it kept me curious as I wasn't sure I've heard it's full potential using the adapter all the time.
> 
> ...


I had the Hiby R6 at the time with its balanced output. Then sold it and am using the V30 now.


waynes world said:


> Why are you selling them? Why shouldn't I buy them from you???


I'm really prefering brighter signatures lately, I'm also selling other buds soon too as a way to help fund the new K's bud purchase I want to make!


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> I had the Hiby R6 at the time with its balanced output. Then sold it and am using the V30 now.
> 
> I'm really prefering brighter signatures lately, I'm also selling other buds soon too as a way to help fund the new K's bud purchase I want to make!



Already looking forward to your review of the K's Ling... I myself almost bought a Samsara a few weeks ago, but decided to wait out for discount events on AE.

Based on just the Hiby R6, did you try both balanced and SE out with the Shozy?


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 26, 2018)

palestofwhite said:


> Already looking forward to your review of the K's Ling... I myself almost bought a Samsara a few weeks ago, but decided to wait out for discount events on AE.


I think I'll keep my black ling around to compare it to the new one and if it's all I want in a TOTL earbud then ill sell the ling and stick to budget purchases for awhile if this new one is better in every way.

Just looking for the one high end earbud to satisfy me instead of checking out headphones.


----------



## golov17

seanc6441 said:


> Just looking for the one high end earbud to satisfy me instead of checking out headphones.


 Sweet dreams... )))


----------



## gazzington

seanc6441 said:


> Hi this is the earbuds thread. I believe you are looking for IEM's a.k.a. "In-Ears" with the silicon tips? There's another IEM thread for those.
> 
> Take a look at the Tin audio T2 Pro though. It's one of the best in it's class. Can also be adjusted via a simple mod to add a big bass boost without needing to touch an EQ.


I have the t2, what’s this mod?


----------



## snip3r77

chinmie said:


> me personally would only see the benefit of balanced on high impedance earphones (for me 100 and up). unless you are planning to get DAP/DAC that have clearly better balanced path like for instance the ES100 that @waynes world  suggested.
> 
> using balanced earbuds into SE output means using an adapter, which introduce another object on the signal path. some might hear a difference or degradation. i personally use a fiio adapter and doesn't hear any difference, but it is a minor inconvenience


I suggested to willsound that he can make
A 2pin cable model. Stay tuned


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 26, 2018)

gazzington said:


> I have the t2, what’s this mod?


r/headphones on reddit have many posts about it might find the 'how to' on a google search of that subreddit.

It's basically blocking one of the ports near the frontside nozzle. You can do it with tape/bluetack or you can invert the stock IEM tip and that seems to block it too. I think the bass gets like a 3-4db boost from 100hz and below.

I assume if you wanted a less substantial boost some filters (like tuning paper you can buy on aliexpress) would give you a boost too but one that's less emphasised.

But since the T2 by default is bass light, many seem to love this mod. Only downside of completey blocking it off is you increase airflow pressure on your ear, which may or may not be a wise thing to do. I think the filter option would lessen that effect.


----------



## chinmie

palestofwhite said:


> Thanks! That's true for the Mojo and I enjoy it's sound enough to have kept and use it as my sole desktop solution since it was released, even though it has only SE (albeit 2 outputs).
> 
> I have totally zero experience with balanced, but since my SWD2+ came with the 2.5mm, it kept me curious as I wasn't sure I've heard it's full potential using the adapter all the time.
> 
> ...



the SWD2+ adapter is nice, it uses the same cable as the earbuds itself to minimize any (if at all) changes in sound.



gazzington said:


> I have the t2, what’s this mod?





seanc6441 said:


> r/headphones on reddit have many posts about it might find the 'how to' on a google search of that subreddit.
> 
> It's basically blocking one of the ports near the frontside nozzle. You can do it with tape/bluetack or you can invert the stock IEM tip and that seems to block it too. I think the bass gets like a 3-4db boost from 100hz and below.
> 
> ...



do you have the T2 Pro by any chance, Sean? I'm interested on how the treble sound is changed on the Pro. the T2's problem is not really the lack of bass, but too high volume of the treble. tune those treble down with eartips bore mod and maybe some teabag filters, then you can crank the volume up more and have a great bass. i tried the vent tape mod, but i don't like the change of the midbass sound, so i don't use that mod anymore


----------



## 40760

chinmie said:


> the SWD2+ adapter is nice, it uses the same cable as the earbuds itself to minimize any (if at all) changes in sound.



I'm thinking of a cleaner solution, like getting an adapter without cables below:







Not sure if it'll add too much strain with all the weight though...


----------



## chinmie

palestofwhite said:


> I'm thinking of a cleaner solution, like getting an adapter without cables below:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i prefer the ones with cables. better to risk slight change in sound than the added risk of damaging the input socket


----------



## golov17 (Sep 26, 2018)

http://www.bloxearphone.com/purchase.htm
​


----------



## golov17

palestofwhite said:


> I'm thinking of a cleaner solution, like getting an adapter without cables below:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Astrotec


----------



## 40760

golov17 said:


> Astrotec



Would you prefer L or straight adapter?


----------



## golov17

palestofwhite said:


> Would you prefer L or straight adapter?


L better for LPG ))


----------



## ClieOS (Sep 26, 2018)

A few more impression:

Datura X: Warm with emphasis on mid range and below. Full sound with an Intimate vocal, but only decent treble. Slightly small soundstage. Roughly the same level of SQ as PT25 and EB2, mainly good for mainstream music with vocal.

ZEVA The Dragon 2.0: Evolved from Dragon S (*discontinued). Warm but tilting toward neutral, good extension, excellent vocal that is well textured, sweet and delicate but not particularly thick. Excellent soundstage with good openness and air. The only slight shortcoming is the upper vocal can gets a little grainy at time. Another flagship / champion level earbud that goes very well with mainstream vocal music. I paid less than RMB500 (<USD$70) for it and that's practically the steal of the year.


----------



## Zerohour88

ClieOS said:


> A few more impression:
> 
> Datura X: Warm with emphasis on mid range and below. Fuall sound with a Intimate vocal, but only decent treble. Slightly small soundstage. Roughly the same level of SQ as PT25 and EB2, mainly good for mainstream music with vocal.
> 
> ZEVA The Dragon 2.0: Evolved from Dragon S (*discontinued). Warm but tilting toward neutral, good extension, excellent vocal that is well textured, sweet and intimate but not excessive. Excellent soundstage with good openness and air. The only slight shortcoming is the upper vocal can gets a little grainy at time. Another flagship / champion level earbud that goes very well with mainstream vocal music. I paid less than RMB500 (<USD$70) for it and that's practically steal of the year.



rmb500? from taobao then? care to share the link? found a few links but the varying prices and sellers worries me.


----------



## ClieOS

Zerohour88 said:


> rmb500? from taobao then? care to share the link? found a few links but the varying prices and sellers worries me.



Official store: http://m.tb.cn/h.36QqzyC?sm=95528b


----------



## paolixi

seanc6441 said:


> What's your source player friend? That will help decide which gear is most suitable


My sources are audinst mx1, smsl idea, fiio q1, and ocean bravo tube amp. 



Asian8640 said:


> Hi, welcome to the thread. I'm more or less starting out as well, as I only have a few pairs of earbuds. However, the HD 600's have been my reference until I sold them yesterday. As much as I loved them, the low end distortion and what I can only describe as a barrel effect for the sound-stage kept me from keeping them around longer before they depreciated from sporadic use. I personally would suggest a pair of Edifier H180's as a good place to start. There are few reasons for this.
> 
> ONE MORE THING TO NOTE that is VERY IMPORTANT: What music do you listen to and how do you listen to it?



I listern pretty much everything that exist in music, but i love the most jazz, progressive, 70s rock. But also hip hop, pop, alternative rock, metal...i'm searching for a balanced earbud. I'm wainting for the monks plus and lite to ship from china so i will know i they fit my ears. The edifiers seems to me in the same league as the monks; what about some more expensive stuff?


----------



## golov17 (Sep 26, 2018)

Btw, soon ))


----------



## Danneq (Sep 26, 2018)

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> @Danneq I'm counting down your TM9 burn in hours!
> 
> Getting close soon!



It's pretty much over 120 hours now and that's enough. But I need time to sit down with them. I am taking time off work to stay at home with the youngest kid right now and my own time is very scarce. I can write mails and stuff like that but it's difficult to sit down and concentrate on something. I might get some time tomorrow. Will try to do it then. At least a short write up on TM9 and ZoomFred.


----------



## kurtextrem

< 70$ and champions level earbud? I hear a train arriving... choo choo


----------



## mbwilson111

golov17 said:


> Btw, soon ))



Well... obviously I will need those....


----------



## redkingjoe

golov17 said:


> Btw, soon ))


Using OCC copper cable...for just $32..very promising...it’s a big bright spot! 

The manufacturer puts a lot of value into the product!


----------



## mbwilson111

redkingjoe said:


> Using OCC copper cable...for just $32..very promising...it’s a big bright spot!
> 
> The manufacturer puts a lot of value into the product!



I need that wooden box


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> Well... obviously I will need those....



obviously 

he also made some beautiful wooden shelled earbuds :


 

i wonder how it sounds


----------



## golov17

mbwilson111 said:


> I need that wooden box


----------



## redkingjoe

mbwilson111 said:


> I need that wooden box



#metoo


----------



## redkingjoe

golov17 said:


>



The wooden box is a piece of arts! 

Good taste


----------



## redkingjoe

chinmie said:


> obviously
> 
> he also made some beautiful wooden shelled earbuds :
> 
> ...



I have been looking for wooden shelf....me thinks it’s a super material for music, theoretically

Imagine most loudspeakers are made with wood!


----------



## RobinFood

bhima said:


> The more I listen to the Willsound PK16, the more I am off-put by them. There is some sort of congested/unnatural sound to them, as if the sound is almost under water. Will try and burn them in even longer. I'm not terribly happy with them. I think the Graphenes are better, even though their sound is a bit too artificial. Might have to just bite the bullet on the Shozy BK to get high quality sound out of a PK shell.



Really? That bad? The PK16 are on the top of my list now, but mostly based on @chinmie impressions, since he seems to have VERY similar tastes to me in earbuds.
Are they detailed and analytical, or does that under water quality muddy up the presentation? I am looking for that feeling I get when I put on the ER4XR in my ears, without the physical feeling of putting them in my ears!

Might be worth waiting on for the Symphonio Dragon 2+ to come back on Massdrop...


----------



## snip3r77

redkingjoe said:


> Using OCC copper cable...for just $32..very promising...it’s a big bright spot!
> 
> The manufacturer puts a lot of value into the product!


Will sound is using SPC hmm


----------



## gazzington

So what's the flagship earbuds for a clear transparent non fatiguing sound?


----------



## 40760

RobinFood said:


> Really? That bad? The PK16 are on the top of my list now, but mostly based on @chinmie impressions, since he seems to have VERY similar tastes to me in earbuds.
> Are they detailed and analytical, or does that under water quality muddy up the presentation? I am looking for that feeling I get when I put on the ER4XR in my ears, without the physical feeling of putting them in my ears!
> 
> Might be worth waiting on for the Symphonio Dragon 2+ to come back on Massdrop...



Waiting for the SWD2+ is a good choice. I'm an ER4-P lover myself...


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 26, 2018)

chinmie said:


> do you have the T2 Pro by any chance, Sean? I'm interested on how the treble sound is changed on the Pro. the T2's problem is not really the lack of bass, but too high volume of the treble. tune those treble down with eartips bore mod and maybe some teabag filters, then you can crank the volume up more and have a great bass. i tried the vent tape mod, but i don't like the change of the midbass sound, so i don't use that mod anymore


I don't myself but reading impressions on r/headphones user u/antdroid 's post and the measurements he conducted indicate that the treble has actually been raised in the upper registers to give more air and extension.

The post links to a full review here https://www.antdroid.net/2018/09/tin-audio-t2-pro-review-of-new-king-of.html?m=1





That should give you an idea of what's changed. They claimed improved bass also but it depends on whether you have an early production model of the original T2 (less bass) or a late production model (more bass) apperantly.

New version apperantly sounds more detailed and neutral (except for the below neutral bass) than the previous version.

I'd imagine if the bass port mod was done right with a filter and test measurements you can raise the bass to neutral levels and you'd have yourself an exceptionally neutral budget IEM.


----------



## subwoof3r

gazzington said:


> So what's the flagship earbuds for a clear transparent non fatiguing sound?


To me it would be TM9 without hesitation,
Best natural and transparency earbuds from my collection


----------



## gazzington

Where do I get those from?


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> obviously
> 
> he also made some beautiful wooden shelled earbuds :
> 
> i wonder how it sounds



One way to find out!  Let us know what you think


----------



## subwoof3r

gazzington said:


> Where do I get those from?


Search function is your friend.


----------



## seanc6441

paolixi said:


> My sources are audinst mx1, smsl idea, fiio q1, and ocean bravo tube amp.
> 
> 
> 
> I listern pretty much everything that exist in music, but i love the most jazz, progressive, 70s rock. But also hip hop, pop, alternative rock, metal...i'm searching for a balanced earbud. I'm wainting for the monks plus and lite to ship from china so i will know i they fit my ears. The edifiers seems to me in the same league as the monks; what about some more expensive stuff?



Something a little pricey (all around €120) but would let you avail of your more powerful amps are the *K's 600* (more neutral/balanced), *K's 300 samsara* (slight V shape, powerful bass) or *K's White ling* (200 ohm)(focus on mids and vocal quality) would be higher impendance buds to check out.

For lower impendance buds that would give that balanced and versatile sound you're after I'd suggest the Willsound series. The new *MK1 special edition or VJC* versions and the *Willsound Mk2 Final* may be a good option and are both 32 ohms. I think they are priced around $45-60.

If you're patient enough you can hold out until the 11.11 sale on aliexpress to get some good deals on earbuds.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 26, 2018)

golov17 said:


> Btw, soon ))


Very interesting looking bud. Clear mx500 shells look great when the cable is this nice 

$32... Very nice build quality for that price, if it sounds good too it'll be even nicer!


----------



## Asian8640

paolixi said:


> My sources are audinst mx1, smsl idea, fiio q1, and ocean bravo tube amp.
> 
> 
> 
> I listern pretty much everything that exist in music, but i love the most jazz, progressive, 70s rock. But also hip hop, pop, alternative rock, metal...i'm searching for a balanced earbud. I'm wainting for the monks plus and lite to ship from china so i will know i they fit my ears. The edifiers seems to me in the same league as the monks; what about some more expensive stuff?



From what I can hear, the Edifiers might be in the same price range as the Monk+, but they handily beat them in every aspect, from bass clarity and treble extension to instrument separation in the "sound stage" created by your head. As for higher end earbuds, I'm not very well versed. I've only heard the VE Asura 2, and those were terrible. I'd take a look at 



 
*seanc6441*

He has *this post* on reddit where he compares a group of earbuds in the price-range you are looking at.


----------



## seanc6441

Asian8640 said:


> From what I can hear, the Edifiers might be in the same price range as the Monk+, but they handily beat them in every aspect, from bass clarity and treble extension to instrument separation in the "sound stage" created by your head. As for higher end earbuds, I'm not very well versed. I've only heard the VE Asura 2, and those were terrible. I'd take a look at
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh yeah i could have linked to that but honestly i think asking here is the best option because of the vast knowledge of earbuds this group collectively has compared to r/headphones ^^

I've never tried the asuras only the monk plus, monk lite and Zen lite. I'm not a fan of any of the 'lite' VE earbuds if im bring honest, they don't give me any wow factor desipte being decent all rounders.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> I don't myself but reading impressions on r/headphones user u/antdroid 's post and the measurements he conducted indicate that the treble has actually been raised in the upper registers to give more air and extension.
> 
> The post links to a full review here https://www.antdroid.net/2018/09/tin-audio-t2-pro-review-of-new-king-of.html?m=1
> 
> ...



do you have the regular T2?


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> I'm not a fan of any of the 'lite' VE earbuds if im bring honest, they don't give me any wow factor desipte being decent all rounders.



I actually find the WOW factor in my music... so maybe that is why I am happy with a good all rounder.


----------



## silverfishla

seanc6441 said:


> I don't myself but reading impressions on r/headphones user u/antdroid 's post and the measurements he conducted indicate that the treble has actually been raised in the upper registers to give more air and extension.
> 
> The post links to a full review here https://www.antdroid.net/2018/09/tin-audio-t2-pro-review-of-new-king-of.html?m=1
> 
> ...


The T2 is absolutely not bass light.  It’s bass right.


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> One way to find out!  Let us know what you think



i might have a way to test them, i think one of my friend bought them. i hope it doesn't sound too good...or else i might have to eat my own words on already having enough earbuds


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> i might have a way to test them, i think one of my friend bought them. i hope it doesn't sound too good...or else i might have to eat my own words on already having enough earbuds



...but if it sounds good, then I can justify buying it for the nice little wooden box with the owl logo on it 

I am just worried about customs fees... that and shipping could nearly double the cost for me.


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> Really? That bad? The PK16 are on the top of my list now, but mostly based on @chinmie impressions, since he seems to have VERY similar tastes to me in earbuds.
> Are they detailed and analytical, or does that under water quality muddy up the presentation? I am looking for that feeling I get when I put on the ER4XR in my ears, without the physical feeling of putting them in my ears!
> 
> Might be worth waiting on for the Symphonio Dragon 2+ to come back on Massdrop...



it's understandable. to be fair, not everyone enjoy the etymotic sound either.. i have friends who actually loathe them 

the etys also sounded unnatural to some people due to the boosted mid highs.

the SWD2+ is a definitely great choice. it's different to the Ety's, but it is a solid sounding earbuds and one of my favorite (although i probably won't ever buy them because i already have other buds)



palestofwhite said:


> Waiting for the SWD2+ is a good choice. I'm an ER4-P lover myself...



high five!! on several occasions i prefer the old ER4 to the ER4XR, more chime-y sound



silverfishla said:


> The T2 is absolutely not bass light.  It’s bass right.



also high five! 



mbwilson111 said:


> ...but if it sounds good, then I can justify buying it for the nice little wooden box with the owl logo on it
> 
> I am just worried about customs fees... that and shipping could nearly double the cost for me.



I'll report back as soon as i can audition it. hopefully soon enough


----------



## rkw

chinmie said:


> do you have the T2 Pro by any chance, Sean? I'm interested on how the treble sound is changed on the Pro.


 The Pro isn't for sale yet and only review samples have been distributed. Massdrop has the exclusive debut and it is expected to begin shipping October 29. I joined the drop (already closed).
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/tin-audio-t2-pro


----------



## chinmie

on a different topic, i already stated that i really like the Datura X as my sleeping buds, so here's a couple of reason for it:
1.the cable is so soft and manageable, it doesn't tug or get caught on my shirt or my face.
2. for sleeping buds, i always listen to really low volume. the Datura is great for that low volume scenario. also the mid focused music kind of blocks out the ambient outside noise, making them similar to listening on an IEM
3.the most important reason: it doesn't change in sound at all when it's being pushed deeper,so i could press my ear to a pillow ans still got a consistent sound. the position of the vents also helps to achieve this. one bad example is the PT15: when pressed to a pillow the vents would be blocked and change the sound dramatically.


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> ...but if it sounds good, then I can justify buying it for the nice little wooden box with the owl logo on it
> 
> I am just worried about customs fees... that and shipping could nearly double the cost for me.



I'm really tempted as well. It's the box and the cable


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 26, 2018)

chinmie said:


> do you have the regular T2?


Nope don't use IEM's sorry. Just see many posts about the T2 because of hype 


silverfishla said:


> The T2 is absolutely not bass light.  It’s bass right.


Haven't heard it myself just going on the general consensus and the FR. But I guess many people using IEM's are accustomed to more bass and that's where the criticism comes from. Anyways the bass mod easily reversible for anyone who wants to try it.


mbwilson111 said:


> I actually find the WOW factor in my music... so maybe that is why I am happy with a good all rounder.


I think we've had this discussion before haha 

My stance will always be every piece of the puzzle makes the difference. And while it's true that I'd rather listen to my favorite music on 1$ earbuds than music I dislike on 500$ buds. I would prefer even more to listen to my favourite music on gear that makes my jaw drop


----------



## waynes world

ClieOS said:


> Official store: http://m.tb.cn/h.36QqzyC?sm=95528b



Thanks! I really need to learn Chinese though.. the last time I tried Taobao it was..... challenging lol


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> Thanks! I really need to learn Chinese though.. the last time I tried Taobao it was..... challenging lol


You know you're on headfi when you someone is considering learning a new language in order to buy more earbuds hehe


----------



## nxnje

Hey guys, long time on the iem thread but wanted to share an opinion in order to have a comparison with someone
Is there someone who has a BENJIE S5 aka AGPTEK M20?

That's because i'm loving the included earbuds that came with it.
They're a bit bulky, and my ears suffer a bit, but i think soundwise they're fairly enjoyable.


----------



## activatorfly

waynes world said:


> Thanks! I really need to learn Chinese though.. the last time I tried Taobao it was..... challenging lol


I've been looking into ordering via an English agent like engtaobao.com - not sure how trustworthy they are though tbh...


----------



## gazzington

What are the k ling earphones like? Considering them and moondrop Liebesleid.  Anybody have opinions on these?


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 26, 2018)

gazzington said:


> What are the k ling earphones like? Considering them and moondrop Liebesleid.  Anybody have opinions on these?


Black ling is a mild V shape (the low point being the lower mids) with a good balance between energy and mature tonality. Very smooth but brighter treble, deep punchy bass, clean low mids. SS is moderate in size but the separation and depth are excellent.


----------



## mbwilson111

activatorfly said:


> I've been looking into ordering via an English agent like engtaobao.com - not sure how trustworthy they are though tbh...



I remember someone in a thread saying that an agent wanted a copy of their driver's license.  I would NEVER do that.


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> I remember someone in a thread saying that an agent wanted a copy of their driver's license.  I would NEVER do that.


Oh yes I remember that thread....sounded highly dodgy! - guess I'll have to proceed with caution...thanks!


----------



## gazzington

mbwilson111 said:


> I remember someone in a thread saying that an agent wanted a copy of their driver's license.  I would NEVER do that.


I ordered through an agent once and nothing was delivered. Luckily mine were just 6.99 docomo buds


----------



## toear

nxnje said:


> Hey guys, long time on the iem thread but wanted to share an opinion in order to have a comparison with someone
> Is there someone who has a BENJIE S5 aka AGPTEK M20?
> 
> That's because i'm loving the included earbuds that came with it.
> They're a bit bulky, and my ears suffer a bit, but i think soundwise they're fairly enjoyable.


I do! They are surprisingly quite good! Nice wide soundstage, but not much depth. Good extension up and down, clear, and definitely good all-arounders. In the vein of (in my experience) MX365, but maybe a bit brighter? I ordered emx500s ages ago but they are long lost in the mail. Probably similar to your basic emx500, vido, etc...? Still very good.


----------



## Danneq

waynes world said:


> Thanks! I really need to learn Chinese though.. the last time I tried Taobao it was..... challenging lol



I used both Taobaoring and Bhiner when I bought earbuds from Taobao 2 years ago (my only time buying from there). Both of them worked well and charged around the same amount in fees. Bhiner had a better layout on their homepage buy I had to "charge" my acount with money before I could pay for the items. With Taobaoring I could just pay directly with Paypal, so overall I prefered Taobaoring even if Bhiner was easier to use.


----------



## Danneq

gazzington said:


> What are the k ling earphones like? Considering them and moondrop Liebesleid.  Anybody have opinions on these?



Liebesleid is very clear sounding and detailed but not the most neutral or natural sounding earbuds. I find the emphasis on upper mids and highs to cause some coloration of the sound. But if you are looking for clarity in a pair of earbuds Liebesleid is a definite option.


----------



## gazzington

Danneq said:


> Liebesleid is very clear sounding and detailed but not the most neutral or natural sounding earbuds. I find the emphasis on upper mids and highs to cause some coloration of the sound. But if you are looking for clarity in a pair of earbuds Liebesleid is a definite option.


Ah thanks, neutral and natural is what I'm after


----------



## gazzington

Where do people get the k Poseidon from? I've read it's supposed to be really good


----------



## Danneq (Sep 26, 2018)

gazzington said:


> Ah thanks, neutral and natural is what I'm after



Blox TM9 is definitely a great option. I also recommend Cypherus ZoomFred. TM9 is more slick and smooth while ZF is a bit more "raw" sounding (but not in a negative way at all). TM9 is natural sounding but can make bad recordings sound better (well, at least not so bad). Bad recordings will sound bad on ZF so in a way it's more natural sounding to me.

Anyway, I will get back to TM9 and ZoomFred tomorrow.


----------



## seanc6441

gazzington said:


> Ah thanks, neutral and natural is what I'm after


Others might suggest the TM9 to you maybe.

Edit:and I see Danneq just has


----------



## iron2k

waynes world said:


> Thanks! I really need to learn Chinese though.. the last time I tried Taobao it was..... challenging lol


Maybe this could help
http://taobaofieldguide.com/taobao-guides


----------



## activatorfly

iron2k said:


> Maybe this could help
> http://taobaofieldguide.com/taobao-guides


Thanks...I'm trying to order via taobaoring....


----------



## seanc6441

activatorfly said:


> Thanks...I'm trying to order via taobaoring....


Let us know how you get on!


----------



## bhima

RobinFood said:


> Really? That bad? The PK16 are on the top of my list now, but mostly based on @chinmie impressions, since he seems to have VERY similar tastes to me in earbuds.
> Are they detailed and analytical, or does that under water quality muddy up the presentation? I am looking for that feeling I get when I put on the ER4XR in my ears, without the physical feeling of putting them in my ears!
> 
> Might be worth waiting on for the Symphonio Dragon 2+ to come back on Massdrop...



The PK16 are just not very natural sounding. Their tuning has a wierd lower treble peak which tries to simulate good upper mids and highs, but it ends up crushing the dynamic range and tonality. Ill do a more thorough review with a bunch of different foams after another week or so.


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> Let us know how you get on!


Ok will do...currently have two pending orders via two different agents - both estimated costs seem to tally.
To keep costs down seems best to choose E-packet shipping (eYouBao) - delivery time of about 3-15 days.


----------



## seanc6441

activatorfly said:


> Ok will do...currently have two pending orders via two different agents - both estimated costs seem to tally.
> To keep costs down seems best to choose E-packet shipping (eYouBao) - delivery time of about 3-15 days.


I never use couriers if I can help it. The extra fees on top of the higher delivery charge just isn't worth it for me.

I think of every extra day as a few extra $$$ saved!


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 26, 2018)

So I got my metal shells, plugs, 400 ohm drivers for my diy earbud project. The metal quality is very good. They have some weight to them and don't feel brittle. So far so good. Still waiting on the cable, heatshrink, tuning foam and other drivers to arrive.

Ran into a small issue of the shells being longer than expected but I think I have a workaround that will benefit comfort anyways.

Not gonna rush this one. Want to make something that looks AND sounds good or else why bother!

Now I just need to clear some desk space to put all this stuff and get some tools ready for the job. I'll post a few pics along the way so you guys can stay in the loop 
 

Hard to see there but the top right cover is darker and for the 15.6mm drivers, the bottom left is for 14.8-15mm drivers. Meaning I can fit either pk or mx500 style drivers in these with a bit of modding.

The shells that came with the 15.6mm covers were a bit bulky to use with these covers but with standard mx500 (metal grille variant too) covers they fit much better. So I'll buy some of those to use with that shell type which uses mmcx connectors too.


----------



## waynes world (Sep 26, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> I never use couriers if I can help it. The extra fees on top of the higher delivery charge just isn't worth it for me.
> 
> I think of every extra day as a few extra $$$ saved!





Spoiler: WRONG lol!









$3 or so for epacket and delivery within 2 weeks (as opposed to 6000 days or never) is well worth it for me!


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> I never use couriers if I can help it. The extra fees on top of the higher delivery charge just isn't worth it for me.
> 
> I think of every extra day as a few extra $$$ saved!


The cost is surprisingly quite minimal!


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> QUOTE="seanc6441, post: 14506885, member: 482195"]I never use couriers if I can help it. The extra fees on top of the higher delivery charge just isn't worth it for me.
> 
> I think of every extra day as a few extra $$$ saved!





Spoiler: WRONG lol!







$3 or so for epacket and delivery within 2 weeks (as opposed to 6000 days or never) is well worth it for me![/QUOTE]


I was charged €30 fees on a €52 valued parcel once by DHL.

NEVER AGAIN!! XD


----------



## activatorfly

waynes world said:


> QUOTE="seanc6441, post: 14506885, member: 482195"]I never use couriers if I can help it. The extra fees on top of the higher delivery charge just isn't worth it for me.
> 
> I think of every extra day as a few extra $$$ saved!





Spoiler: WRONG lol!







$3 or so for epacket and delivery within 2 weeks (as opposed to 6000 days or never) is well worth it for me![/QUOTE]
D'accord!


----------



## seanc6441

activatorfly said:


> Spoiler: WRONG lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


D'accord![/QUOTE]


Wait i do use e packet, i never use expensive ass couriers like DHL is what I meant to say


----------



## waynes world (Sep 26, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Wait i do use e packet, i never use expensive ass couriers like DHL is what I meant to say



I messed up on my QUOTEs in my initial post, and I see it infected your quotes - sorry about that!

But yeah, I agree about not using other couriers like DHL for sure!


----------



## activatorfly

Oh ok cool...me neither! - some of those agents can be unscrupulous though - apparently they can switch your order to a more expensive shipping method.
- guess that's the risk you take ordering via a broker....


----------



## activatorfly

I'll keep you posted with developments......


----------



## mochill

The periodic audio nickel is out!!!!!! OMG =-O


----------



## blackberriesandthinkpads

Danneq said:


> It's pretty much over 120 hours now and that's enough. But I need time to sit down with them. I am taking time off work to stay at home with the youngest kid right now and my own time is very scarce. I can write mails and stuff like that but it's difficult to sit down and concentrate on something. I might get some time tomorrow. Will try to do it then. At least a short write up on TM9 and ZoomFred.



Take your time! I'm just very eager to hear what you think.


----------



## ClieOS

A little update for those who are interested in Titanium Ling - there will be two variants: low impendance 32ohm and high impendance 120ohm. Price will be about $340 and $380 accordingly. Cable will be a combination of 5N pure silver and silver palladium alloy strands. Estimated release date will likely be in November.


----------



## tim0chan

ClieOS said:


> A little update for those who are interested in Titanium Ling - there will be two variants: low impendance 32ohm and high impendance 120ohm. Price will be about $340 and $380 accordingly. Cable will be a combination of 5N pure silver and silver palladium alloy strands. Estimated release date will likely be in November.


Heck yeah


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 26, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> A little update for those who are interested in Titanium Ling - there will be two variants: low impendance 32ohm and high impendance 120ohm. Price will be about $340 and $380 accordingly. Cable will be a combination of 5N pure silver and silver palladium alloy strands. Estimated release date will likely be in November.


Wow didn't expect there to be a low impendance version and the price is below what I had previously read too.

This is a bit of a long shot but any idea on were to place this in their line up? Is this there new flagship or a revision of the ling.

I'm hoping it's comparable or improved over the Poseidon but that may be wishful thinking.


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> Wow didn't expect there to be a low impendance version and the price is below what I had previously read too.
> 
> This is a bit of a long shot but any idea on were to place this in their line up? Is this there new flagship or a revision of the ling.
> 
> I'm hoping it's comparable or improved over the Poseidon but that may be wishful thinking.



If what had been claimed is true, Titanium Ling will be even better sounding than Poseiden, making it a class above the Black and White Ling. The driver is said to be a brand new design, custom ordered from the factory and exclusive to K's.

Price quoted above are the Taobao price, do expect them to inflat internationally.


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> If what had been claimed is true, Titanium Ling will be even better sounding than Poseiden, making it a class above the Black and White Ling. The driver is said to be a brand new design, custom ordered from the factory and exclusive to K's.
> 
> Price quoted above are the Taobao price, do expect them to inflat internationally.


Ok that's great news thanks!

Oh right yeah didn't think of that, eh if it's my dream earbud it'll be worth the price.

A very early Christmas present to myself


----------



## mochill

Don't forget about the TM9


----------



## golov17

mochill said:


> Don't forget about the TM9





Spoiler


----------



## mochill




----------



## Zerohour88

activatorfly said:


> I've been looking into ordering via an English agent like engtaobao.com - not sure how trustworthy they are though tbh...



I've been quite lucky to find a trustworthy agent (a guy doing taobao purchasing as a side gig), spent quite a lot there due to him also helping me bargain and negotiate (also used 2taobao, their used-items site).


----------



## blackberriesandthinkpads




----------



## redkingjoe

seanc6441 said:


> If you're patient enough you can hold out until the 11.11 sale on aliexpress to get some good deals on earbuds.



Thank you for your kindn reminder!

I will hold my cash for 11:11 discount!


----------



## redkingjoe

snip3r77 said:


> Will sound is using SPC hmm



I prefer pure single crystal!


----------



## redkingjoe

ClieOS said:


> A little update for those who are interested in Titanium Ling - there will be two variants: low impendance 32ohm and high impendance 120ohm. Price will be about $340 and $380 accordingly. Cable will be a combination of 5N pure silver and silver palladium alloy strands. Estimated release date will likely be in November.



Wow! Thanks for the update!

November! Hope there will be 11.11 discount!


----------



## j4100

Look who has a new cable for his ZOE and an Odyssey.


----------



## golov17

j4100 said:


> Look who has a new cable for his ZOE and an Odyssey.


How to buy?


----------



## j4100

golov17 said:


> How to buy?



I bought these through the VE site. You have to go through the options in basic cables. The Odyssey is on the front page, I think.


----------



## RobinFood

I just  got the thin foams, and put them on my MK2 and my Yincrow X6s.



 

They are really nice, making more of a difference than I thought. They are more comfortable than naked shells, but a little itchy. They are not as bass heavy as the stock foams, but I found the imaging to improve quite a bit. 

Actually, it makes the earbud sound almost naked without having the hard plastic slowly make things uncomfortable, and makes it easier to position the bud just right in the ear. I'm a fan already.

Another nice thing I noticed is that they don't tear very easily. I had to stretch them quite a bit to get them on at first. Other thin foams tore at this point, but not these. Definately worth the 89 cents!

Thanks again!


----------



## RobinFood (Sep 27, 2018)

On another note, going back to listen to the Yincrow X6, they sound so....BAD now that I have been using the Willsound MK2 for so long...all the mids sound thin, it makes the instruments sound like midi-files...I can't believe I used them for so long and enjoyed them quite a bit!

Does anyone know if they would sound better if I were to re-cable them? I heard re-cabled Vidos are great, and they use the same drivers...If so, what kind of wires should I get to "save" them?


----------



## EH-Yeon

Something just came in today.


----------



## snip3r77

RobinFood said:


> On another note, going back to listen to the Yincrow X6, they sound so....BAD now that I have been using the Willsound MK2 for so long...all the mids sound thin, it makes the instruments sound like midi-files...I can't believe I used them for so long and enjoyed them quite a bit!
> 
> Does anyone know if they would sound better if I were to re-cable them? I heard re-cabled Vidos are great, and they use the same drivers...If so, what kind of wires should I get to "save" them?



the X6 is the upgraded VIDO IIRC. Usually SPC will bring up the highs. Pls confirm with those who modded the vido.


----------



## seanc6441

RobinFood said:


> I just  got the thin foams, and put them on my MK2 and my Yincrow X6s.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They get softer after use I noticed so the itchiness might go away.

And yes the imaging qualities are retained which is not always the case for some other foams. Very transparent but still reduce treble and boost bass by like 10%.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 27, 2018)

RobinFood said:


> On another note, going back to listen to the Yincrow X6, they sound so....BAD now that I have been using the Willsound MK2 for so long...all the mids sound thin, it makes the instruments sound like midi-files...I can't believe I used them for so long and enjoyed them quite a bit!
> 
> Does anyone know if they would sound better if I were to re-cable them? I heard re-cabled Vidos are great, and they use the same drivers...If so, what kind of wires should I get to "save" them?


Well... That depends on how much you want to spend I guess. Pure silver may save them 

Or, you can go for the cable I purchased. Pure silver coated OCC. Here's the link, it's a little pricey but nothing compared to pure silver. You can buy in 5m (one 4 core cable) or more.

5m 26AWG Ag99.9% Acrolink Pure Silver plated +7N OCC Copper Signal Teflo AFT Wire Cable 65/0.05mm2 Dia:0.85mm For DIY LN005194
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/b7bl4CrI


----------



## RobinFood

seanc6441 said:


> Well... That depends on how much you want to spend I guess. Pure silver may save them
> 
> Or, you can go for the cable I purchased. Pure silver coated OCC. Here's the link, it's a little pricey but nothing compared to pure silver. You can buy in 5m (one 4 core cable) or more.
> 
> ...



Hmmm, no sure thing either, I guess they are dead!

Or more like they just made the short list for the next time my wife loses her earphones...


----------



## Danneq (Sep 27, 2018)

Here is a small comparison between Cypherus ZoomFred and Blox TM9. I could have gone into more detail if I wrote this at another time but now it will have to do.


*Bass:*
ZoomFred > TM9
*ZoomFred *has got deep and well textured bass. Very good sub bass for a pair of earbuds.  It is a bit like the bass on Zen 1, but better. Almost a bit too much for someone who's looking for a more linear FQ response. *TM9 *has got less sub bass and to me it sounds like there's a bit more midbass. You don't get the same sort of bass kick as with ZoomFred, but still bass is quite good for a pair of earbuds.


*Mids:*
ZoomFred=TM9
On *TM9* vocals sound quite nice. The soundstage is wide and deep but vocals are still up front and warm enough to please just about everyone. *ZoomFred *sounds more "open" than TM9, even after volume adjustment (on my iBasso R10, I need to lower the volume 5-6 steps when switching from TM9 to ZoomFred, so I suppose ZF is more sensitive than TM9). Mids are slightly closer than on TM9. Vocals sound nice but a bit less warm than on TM9.


*Highs:*
TM9=ZoomFred
*TM9 *has got very smooth highs that still are quite extended. They are no where near sibilance or harshness and even rough recordings can sound okay. Those who focus more on clarity and detail might want more "bite" in the treble. But the smoothness should not be mistaken for roll off. *ZoomFred's *treble is just like TM9's extended but nowhere near a bright sound.


*Soundstage:*
TM9>ZoomFred
*TM9 *has got a wide and deep soundstage and only loses to Aiwa HP D9 in my experience. *ZoomFred *sounds slightly more intimate in comparison but the soundstage is still among the biggest I've heard in a pair of earbuds.


*Intrument separation/imaging:*
ZoomFred>TM9
*ZoomFred *has got first class instrument separation. Every instrument has got an almost physical feel and is easily discernable even if the music is busy. *TM9 *comes close but I feel a bit less weight in the instruments. The big soundstage helps with instrument separation but compared to ZoomFred instruments appear to be slightly further away from the listener.


*Overall:*
Overall I prefer ZoomFred to TM9. Instruments have got more weight and a more natural timbre on ZoomFred. TM9 is a bit too "polite" even for me. It almost sounds like it's EQ'd or something like that. ZoomFred sounds more raw and natural. If something is recorded a bit rough it sounds like that on ZoomFred while it sounds less rough on TM9. TM9 does not sound rolled off or veiled, but that more "raw" and natural approach of ZoomFred makes it sound more open. Still TM9 is very enjoyable and a true TOTL earbud.

Both of these are in the very top of the TOTL earbuds I've heard. ZoomFred is no 2 after Red Dragon and TM9 will at least end up in my top 5. It's not impossible to end up in my top 3 even.


Compared to Monk+
Monk+ has got a much less wide and deep soundstage, lacks sub bass and detail compared to ZF and TM9. It is great for $5 and the perfect gateway drug to earbuds. But it cannot hold a candle to ZoomFred and TM9. Switching from Monk+ to either of these earbuds is like going from computer speakers to a good home stereo system.


TM7 vs TM9
Much more intimate sound on the TM7 with the vocals closer to the listener than on TM9. TM7 also appears to be a bit more sensitive than TM9. Just like with ZoomFred I need to make volume adjustment when switching to and from TM9.


Some photos:






Same Oyaide connector on TM9 and ZoomFred:


TM9 with its older sibling TM7:


----------



## waynes world (Sep 27, 2018)

RobinFood said:


> On another note, going back to listen to the Yincrow X6, they sound so....BAD now that I have been using the Willsound MK2 for so long...all the mids sound thin, it makes the instruments sound like midi-files...I can't believe I used them for so long and enjoyed them quite a bit!



I'm not saying this is happening with you, but I wonder if you let your brain adjust back to the X6's, you might enjoy them a bit again (at least a bit)? Fyi, I've never heard the X6's.



Danneq said:


> Here is a small comparison between Cypherus ZoomFred and Blox TM9. I could have gone into more detail if I wrote this at another time but now it will have to do.
> 
> 
> *Bass:*
> ...



Very nice comparison - thanks!


----------



## teston

Danneq said:


> Here is a small comparison between Cypherus ZoomFred and Blox TM9. I could have gone into more detail if I wrote this at another time but now it will have to do.
> 
> 
> *Bass:*
> ...


Nice comparison Danneq!
And one thing, TM9's plug is not Oyaide. It is just a regular plug that looks like the Oyaide plug imo.


----------



## Carrow

It sucks because I only got these two weeks ago but I'm considering moving on my Airman HE-150s w/ upgrade cable. Mostly because I can't find a comfortable way to wear them - cable up makes the area around my ears hurt after a bit, and cable down puts too much weight on the cable itself so I can't fit them properly. Damn it. I was hoping I'd love these because the sound is extremely my thing but I just... don't? So y'know, if you're interested...


----------



## Danneq

teston said:


> Nice comparison Danneq!
> And one thing, TM9's plug is not Oyaide. It is just a regular plug that looks like the Oyaide plug imo.



Thanks!

Are you sure? Herry uses Oyaide for Cypherus earbuds (straight or L-shaped) and the TM9 looks like the one on ZoomFred and CampFred 1 & 2.


----------



## teston

Danneq said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Are you sure? Herry uses Oyaide for Cypherus earbuds (straight or L-shaped) and the TM9 looks like the one on ZoomFred and CampFred 1 & 2.


Yeah Herry definitely used Oyaide for his earbuds.
For now the easiest way to tell them apart is the length of the part in the picture I attached.
Oyaide is the shorter one.


----------



## activatorfly

Here's my **** PT25 review:


----------



## activatorfly (Sep 27, 2018)

***** PT25 earpods!*

*Pros*:

Wide/deep holophonic sound-stage.
Excellent resolution of micro details – with highlighted midrange.
Accurate depth of imaging & layering of instruments.
Analogue/warm/brightly tuned graphene drivers
4-core silver/copper cable.

*Cons*:

Takes time to adjust to earpod form factor.
Treble EQ boost can lead to sibilance.
No option for longer length or balanced plug cable.
Bass quantity/resolution could be more pronounced.


*Build, comfort & fit:*

Very light and sleek shells sporting a brushed aluminum finish with minimal ear protrusion.
Build quality of the metal shells is excellent with uber tight MMCX connectors - supplied with 2 pairs of silicons covers (one pair with ear hooks.) With attached silicons the in-ear comfort level is superb & they’re incredibly light and unobtrusive.
One thing I always try out with new buds is to cup both hands over ears & buds - to ascertain if the bass/sub bass quantity can be improved by reducing any sound leakage.
I found that the best way to achieve the perfect seal with PT25 is to attach the non-hook silicons first – then overlay them with the 2nd hooked pair. This results in having minimal shell movement - giving the listener more reassurance that they’ll stay in place.

The supplied half silver/ half copper MMCX cable is of excellent quality. For this price I wasn't expecting a 4-core cable. This is a bonus if you plan to re-cable with a balanced 2.5 jack plug.
Fortunately, I’d already got a balanced MMCX cable ready to exchange - balanced as you’d expect bolstering the frequency range & enhancing micro details (in comparison to SE output.) Also the sound-stage is given greater sense of “air” alongside a feeling of a more holophonic 3D sound!


*Sound signature:*

The brightness of the dynamic graphene drivers is apparent; hence the PT25 sound signature is certainly not neutral, presenting a warmer and very energetic signature. Three holes drilled into the rear of shell housings can be modded with tape - to further increase bass response.
Imho they are light years ahead of Apple earpods - having a much brighter tuning & tonality. They sound fine out of the box and start to sparkle after a few hours burn in, becoming much smoother & less abrasive than initially perceived - generating an intimate “live” performance feeling. They respond well to EQ – but a cautious approach (compared to EB2) is required when boosting midrange/ high frequencies (500 – 23kHz) - in order to avoid the onset of harshness & sibilance!


*Genre/listening preferences:*

The majority of tracks in my collection are electronica, indie, soundscapes and binaural recordings….
PT25 are another superb all-rounder! - Accurately rendering all genres such as: female vocals / pop / rock / classical & jazz.

*Comparisons:*

PT15 vs PT25
The difference in SQ is night and day, both have graphene drivers, however PT25 renders far more details, conveying a much wider, deeper holophonic soundstage.
To my ears, there seems to be an ever-present, overriding rumble sound in the original PT15. The bass bleed into the mids becomes quite an annoying distraction - making them sound very muddy in comparison (even with a balanced cable.) Conversely, the quantity of bass of the PT25 is much more distinct and never succumbs to image congestion.

EB2 vs PT25
A similarity in specifications is reflected in their mutual sound signatures. The combination of the PT25’s form factor & graphene drivers seems to recess the bass/sub bass slightly, whilst pushing the mids more forward resulting in an emphasis of micro details.
They are both intimate but have different tonalities to sound refreshing. Switching to a balanced cable adds an extra dimension to the soundstage of the PT25 – offering seamless transfer between SE & balanced sources. EB2 are slightly more refined with warmer vocals and realism of instruments, however despite this, both buds complement each other perfectly for a wide range of genres.


*Conclusions & Verdict:*

Similar to the EB2 they can both hold their own alongside more expensive buds, with controlled raw energy that encourages you to re-appreciate your album collection. The combination of low impedance, high sensitivity means that they’re easily driven with smartphone, DAP etc via SE or balanced outputs. PT25 have a fast attack response making percussion tracks really pop - whilst bell / plucked / hammered sounds have a very realistic resonant chime.
Admittedly, bass realism & resolution is a tad more recessed than EB2, the star of the show being the tonality of the mids – which are pushed forward in the mix. PT25 has minimal fatigue with extended listening sessions - both pairs have a sense of energy and “musicality” whilst being interchangeable & easily switchable, helping to maintain a fresh contrast of tonality!

· Sound signature: *4.2*/5
· Soundstage: 4.*5*/5
· Micro-details: 4.*5*/5
· Bass: *4.2*/5
· Mids: *5*/5
· Treble: *4.2*/5
· Value: 4.*5*/5

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SFR...105.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.4eab4c4dsnIEoJ


----------



## RodRevenge

mbwilson111 said:


> I actually find the WOW factor in my music... so maybe that is why I am happy with a good all rounder.


This is why im more and more interested in neutral/good all rounders lately instead of v or u.


----------



## mbwilson111

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


>




Best selfie so far... lol.


----------



## bhima

RobinFood said:


> On another note, going back to listen to the Yincrow X6, they sound so....BAD now that I have been using the Willsound MK2 for so long...all the mids sound thin, it makes the instruments sound like midi-files...I can't believe I used them for so long and enjoyed them quite a bit!
> 
> Does anyone know if they would sound better if I were to re-cable them? I heard re-cabled Vidos are great, and they use the same drivers...If so, what kind of wires should I get to "save" them?



Honestly, for that kind of money, you might as well get the Yincrow RW-777 on 11.11. They will likely be under $40, and they are currently the best sounding earbuds I own in terms of a more accurate sound signature. The fit can be finnicky, but the sound signature is more neutral, with a hint of warmth--definitely the best balance of tuning out of all my chi-fi stuff. Probably the closest buds I have to my AKG K7XX right now.


----------



## Danneq (Sep 27, 2018)

got an e-mail from Herry of Cypherus earlier today.

He enclosed the following photo:



He writes:
"Just wanted to let you know that I’ve made the sibling of Your Red Dragon

Its Focal Utopia in earbuds shell

By far, this is the best I’ve ever made."



I thought it was Focal Elear but apparently it was Focal *Utopia* that the buyer wanted his pair of Red Dragon tuned as.

I asked about the cable. The same as on White CampFred?

His reply:
"Nope, cable is different. This one using custom silver gold cable with cryogenic treatment. It is really flexible.

The buyer is asking to tune to focal utopia as he has one and would like to get in smaller form for on the go. "


I would REALLY like to hear that one! Herry used to think that my pair of Red Dragon was the best he'd made...

It looks like this pair of Red Dragon even can be used outside unlike my pair!

That's why I've called Red Dragon a concept rather than a line of earbuds: The focus is on sound, and then cables, tuning and other things are adapted to the customers wishes.

My pair in contrast to the younger brother:


Borrowed another photo from the Cypherus homepage to show how fat the lower part of the cable is on my pair of Red Dragon:


----------



## nxnje

toear said:


> I do! They are surprisingly quite good! Nice wide soundstage, but not much depth. Good extension up and down, clear, and definitely good all-arounders. In the vein of (in my experience) MX365, but maybe a bit brighter? I ordered emx500s ages ago but they are long lost in the mail. Probably similar to your basic emx500, vido, etc...? Still very good.


Finally someone who have tried these! they are amazing for what they're supposed to be: a cheap included earphone with a cheap dap.


In any case
Could i ask you all how can make earbuds more comfortable? Is there any way to put something different except the simple foam?
Seems like they push into my ear giving me discomfort, maybe some silicon stuff could help but i'm new in earbuds as i always use IEMs


----------



## seanc6441

teston said:


> Yeah Herry definitely used Oyaide for his earbuds.
> For now the easiest way to tell them apart is the length of the part in the picture I attached.
> Oyaide is the shorter one.


Not to say the TM9 plug is off less quality. May be a good clone


----------



## seanc6441

Danneq said:


> got an e-mail from Herry of Cypherus earlier today.
> 
> He enclosed the following photo:
> 
> ...


So did he tune the one your bought second hand to a particular headphone tuning? Did you ever ask herry? Would be cool if you could here the headphone and red dragon side by side and pick out the similarities.


----------



## tim0chan

activatorfly said:


> ***** PT25 earpods!*
> 
> *Pros*:
> 
> ...


Size comparison with the earpods? They might be to large for me


----------



## rkw

snip3r77 said:


> Assume your ear is too small for mx500
> So using any foam will make it worst , should one go without any foam ?


This is completely unintuitive, but you should also try using _more_ foam (i.e. double or even triple foams). It makes the earbud a larger puffy ball and shifts the position. Depending on the shape of your ear, it could settle into a secure spot. This worked for me with Rose Mojito, which has a size and shape that aren't a good match to my ear.


----------



## beyermann

Anyone else recieved the EB2? mine has finally arrived to france but still didn't to my home. It should be close. I cant wait to test this one out, everyone said they are wicked. First aliexpress order so i hope everything is ok.


----------



## activatorfly

tim0chan said:


> Size comparison with the earpods? They might be to large for me


They're smaller / less bulky than regular earpods.....similar size to EB2's shells.


----------



## silverfishla

rkw said:


> This is completely unintuitive, but you should also try using _more_ foam (i.e. double or even triple foams). It makes the earbud a larger puffy ball and shifts the position. Depending on the shape of your ear, it could settle into a secure spot. This worked for me with Rose Mojito, which has a size and shape that aren't a good match to my ear.


I agree with this.  Too large to jam in?  Make them a little bigger to fit where they sit.  I also did that with my pair of Mojito.


----------



## kw8910

Danneq said:


> Here is a small comparison between Cypherus ZoomFred and Blox TM9. I could have gone into more detail if I wrote this at another time but now it will have to do.
> 
> 
> *Bass:*
> ...



Thanks for spending the time to write this up.. I do like the extended sub-bass on the Zoomfred, great for kickdrums and one of the aspects of this signature that's unique in my collection. The bass is very cohesive and clean without that midbass bump you'll often find so it's also very versatile.


----------



## seanc6441

More stuff arrived


----------



## tim0chan

activatorfly said:


> They're smaller / less bulky than regular earpods.....similar size to EB2's shells.


Should be perfect for me then


----------



## chinmie

Danneq said:


> *Overall:*
> Overall I prefer ZoomFred to TM9. Instruments have got more weight and a more natural timbre on ZoomFred. TM9 is a bit too "*polite*" even for me. It almost sounds like it's EQ'd or something like that. ZoomFred sounds more raw and natural. If something is recorded a bit rough it sounds like that on ZoomFred while it sounds less rough on TM9. TM9 does not sound rolled off or veiled, but that more "raw" and natural approach of ZoomFred makes it sound more open. Still TM9 is very enjoyable and a true TOTL earbud.
> 
> Both of these are in the very top of the TOTL earbuds I've heard. ZoomFred is no 2 after Red Dragon and TM9 will at least end up in my top 5. It's not impossible to end up in my top 3 even.



nicely written and pretty much sums up to my experience with rhe TM9. the "too polite" part is what makes me decide this is not for me, because i prefer more engaging and more energetic sound characteristics.

what i do feel that the TM9 strengths is it's depth and soundstage. combine that with the "mellow" and laid back neutral sound, i think it would do great wonder on live music, especially vocal or jazz setup. in the end i ended up purchasing an ATH R70X instead of the TM9. not an earbud, i know, but for the money it meets my needs better and I'm certainly happier



Danneq said:


> got an e-mail from Herry of Cypherus earlier today.
> 
> He enclosed the following photo:
> 
> ...



Focal Utopia in an earbud form?? better inform @doggiemom !!


----------



## Makahl (Sep 27, 2018)

Hey @ClieOS I know it's nothing to worry about but since you're into DIY stuff, would you say the TM9's Oyaide 3.5mm is genuine? By pictures, it looks like a cheaper Oyaide clone that you find on AE/Taobao but might I'm wrong.


----------



## silverfishla

activatorfly said:


> Here's my **** PT25 review:


Here’s MY **** PT25 review.......


----------



## ClieOS

Makahl said:


> Hey @ClieOS I know it's nothing to worry about but since you're into DIY stuff, would you say the TM9's Oyaide 3.5mm is genuine? By pictures, it looks like a cheaper Oyaide clone that you find on AE/Taobao but might I'm wrong.



It is an Oyaide clone. I used (and still use) them as well as the real Oyaide plug before, while the real stuff looks nicer, it doesn't offer anything more sonically and the clone is just as sturdy. The price difference however is very significant, and Oyaide plug probably is one of the most overpriced among the big brands.


----------



## seanc6441

silverfishla said:


> Here’s MY **** PT25 review.......



That's not where you put them!


----------



## chaiyuta

Danneq said:


> His reply:
> "Nope, cable is different. This one using custom silver gold cable with cryogenic treatment. It is really flexible."



From the picture, My assumption is it would be Toxic Silver Widow or Toxic Silver Poison V2. Umm but I may guess wrong.


----------



## silverfishla

seanc6441 said:


> That's not where you put them!


No wonder why I couldn't hear anything!  I thought they were broken!


----------



## Danneq

seanc6441 said:


> So did he tune the one your bought second hand to a particular headphone tuning? Did you ever ask herry? Would be cool if you could here the headphone and red dragon side by side and pick out the similarities.



Herry did reply which one he was aiming for with my pair: Sennheiser HD800S. Have never heard those (only lower tier stuff like HD600 and HD650 but only briefly in audio shops).




chinmie said:


> nicely written and pretty much sums up to my experience with rhe TM9. the "too polite" part is what makes me decide this is not for me, because i prefer more engaging and more energetic sound characteristics.
> 
> what i do feel that the TM9 strengths is it's depth and soundstage. combine that with the "mellow" and laid back neutral sound, i think it would do great wonder on live music, especially vocal or jazz setup. in the end i ended up purchasing an ATH R70X instead of the TM9. not an earbud, i know, but for the money it meets my needs better and I'm certainly happier  @doggiemom !!



I wrote about TM9 to Herry and he replied that "Mostly, you will find less punch and energetic if you spread the soundstage to much. and this is the case with TM9 in my opinion." 

That is true. Still I really like TM9 and it is unique and have a definite place in my collection.


----------



## gazzington

Danneq said:


> got an e-mail from Herry of Cypherus earlier today.
> 
> He enclosed the following photo:
> 
> ...


Wow, how much are these magical items?


----------



## Danneq

Until VE Nirvana is released Red Dragon are some of the most expensive earbuds: a little over $700.

There's also that Vietnamese earbud maker, I don't remember their name, who also makes custom shells and where the most expensive one costs over $800. I've never read reviews of those, though...


----------



## gazzington

Danneq said:


> Until VE Nirvana is released Red Dragon are some of the most expensive earbuds: a little over $700.
> 
> There's also that Vietnamese earbud maker, I don't remember their name, who also makes custom shells and where the most expensive one costs over $800. I've never read reviews of those, though...


Too to be honest if they sound like those flagship headphones then they are probably worth it.  I might save up for some.  What dap do you use with those earphones?


----------



## 40760

ZOE returned and Zen Black Edition incoming...


----------



## DAndrew

Danneq said:


> Herry did reply which one he was aiming for with my pair: Sennheiser HD800S. Have never heard those (only lower tier stuff like HD600 and HD650 but only briefly in audio shops).



How did those compare to your Red Dragon?


----------



## DAndrew

Danneq said:


> Until VE Nirvana is released Red Dragon are some of the most expensive earbuds: a little over $700.
> 
> There's also that Vietnamese earbud maker, I don't remember their name, who also makes custom shells and where the most expensive one costs over $800. I've never read reviews of those, though...



Did Lee give any details about the Nirvana?


----------



## tim0chan

palestofwhite said:


> ZOE returned and Zen Black Edition incoming...


Tbh you should have just bought the "black" cable and connected it to the Zoe. The Zoe does have detachable cables after all


----------



## 40760

tim0chan said:


> Tbh you should have just bought the "black" cable and connected it to the Zoe. The Zoe does have detachable cables after all



TBH, I did think of that too, but it seems that the "black" cable only looks similar and is not actually the same as the one that's on the black edition. Also, the lifetime warranty sort of sealed the deal for me. I might, in the future get the AOE though... Since I have the spare upgrade cables lying around...


----------



## subwoof3r (Sep 28, 2018)

Danneq said:


> Here is a small comparison between Cypherus ZoomFred and Blox TM9. I could have gone into more detail if I wrote this at another time but now it will have to do.



it is exactly how I would describe TM9 too
I have the same feeling


----------



## Danneq

DAndrew said:


> How did those compare to your Red Dragon?



I don't remember them to clearly. It was a few years ago while in Japan at Yodobashi stores and I bought the Red Dragon last year.

Red Dragon does sound like full size headphones just like a few other TOTL earbuds, such as most of  the Cypherus line, Blox TM9, Diomnes Lv2 etc.

The smaller drivers in earbuds cannot create as full a sound as 40mm or bigger ones in headphones can. But sometimes they can really come very close and sound very close to headphones.




DAndrew said:


> Did Lee give any details about the Nirvana?



There has been rumors about VE Nirvana for years. Probably since 2015 or so. Nothing more than rumors or Lee mentioning them sometimes but I have no idea if VE has started working on a prototype or anything like that.


----------



## DAndrew

Danneq said:


> I don't remember them to clearly. It was a few years ago while in Japan at Yodobashi stores and I bought the Red Dragon last year.
> 
> Red Dragon does sound like full size headphones just like a few other TOTL earbuds, such as most of  the Cypherus line, Blox TM9, Diomnes Lv2 etc.
> 
> ...



It really is amazing that the 5$ monk driver could sound close to a full sized headphone. I cant think of how they managed to tune it like that. Also, my ZoomFred is completed and it should be shipped today. So next week I should received it, really looking forward to it


----------



## DAndrew

So today along with drivers and other parts for my DIY project, I also received a SPC cable for my TO400s. I have to admit I always thought that cable affecting sound quality is bs and placebo. But boy it is not. The sound really became more warm and the annoying sparkle in the highs is gone. I just wanted an upgrade to the rather boringly normal stock cable, I did not expect it to change the sq at all !

I wonder just how many buds would benefit for a better cable and how much that would improve the sound


----------



## subwoof3r (Sep 28, 2018)

Finally received my NiceHCK *EB2* today !

After giving a quick first try right out of the box, overall impression is pretty good, now I understand why it has been said it sound 85% of EBX, which I can't disagree.
Maybe a bit more bass (and subbass especially) could be appreciated at first sight (coming from TM9).
For this price, it's just a stealth and definitely to me the best budget earbuds available for now. Incredible.

Let's see how sound will change after 100+ hours of burning..  and make a full review (especially compared with EBX and TM9!)


----------



## snip3r77

subwoof3r said:


> Finally received my NiceHCK *EB2* today !
> 
> After giving a quick first try right out of the box, overall impression is pretty good, now I understand why it has been said it sound 85% of EBX, which I can't disagree.
> Maybe a bit more bass (and subbass especially) could be appreciated at first sight (coming from TM9).
> ...


Pls compare with mk2


----------



## snip3r77

I bought a new pair of mmcx for my pt25.
Cable is ok BUT there is an extra plastic layer to shape my ear ( used for iem cable up around my ears ) . How do I make it straight for my application ?


----------



## snip3r77

DAndrew said:


> It really is amazing that the 5$ monk driver could sound close to a full sized headphone. I cant think of how they managed to tune it like that. Also, my ZoomFred is completed and it should be shipped today. So next week I should received it, really looking forward to it


A lot of them said ry4s with UE cable is top notch


----------



## beyermann

subwoof3r said:


> Finally received my NiceHCK *EB2* today !
> 
> After giving a quick first try right out of the box, overall impression is pretty good, now I understand why it has been said it sound 85% of EBX, which I can't disagree.
> Maybe a bit more bass (and subbass especially) could be appreciated at first sight (coming from TM9).
> ...



Mine should arrive soon 

what are you using to drive them? did you test them in a phone vs laptop vs an USB interface vs headphone amiplifier and notice and changes?


----------



## golov17

DAndrew said:


> I wonder just how many buds would benefit for a better cable and how much that would improve the sound


A simple cable does not prevent them from sounding great, by the way


----------



## chinmie

snip3r77 said:


> I bought a new pair of mmcx for my pt25.
> Cable is ok BUT there is an extra plastic layer to shape my ear ( used for iem cable up around my ears ) . How do I make it straight for my application ?



use a hair dryer set on hot air, hang the cable, while you heat it, it will straighten up.


----------



## snip3r77

chinmie said:


> use a hair dryer set on hot air, hang the cable, while you heat it, it will straighten up.



OK got it. Thanks


----------



## chinmie

DAndrew said:


> So today along with drivers and other parts for my DIY project, I also received a SPC cable for my TO400s. I have to admit I always thought that cable affecting sound quality is bs and placebo. But boy it is not. The sound really became more warm and the annoying sparkle in the highs is gone. I just wanted an upgrade to the rather boringly normal stock cable, I did not expect it to change the sq at all !
> 
> I wonder just how many buds would benefit for a better cable and how much that would improve the sound





golov17 said:


> A simple cable does not prevent them from sounding great, by the way



true, it all depends on the buds. Vido is infamous for gaining better sound after recabling, and i have tested the PT15 and Svara and also hear them improved with better cables. 
but i also found my Blox B200 is better with it's original cheap looking cable, and i like the standard Willsound MK300 cable than the 8 braided one.

but also take note, when i say better, it just means it is more suited for my subjective taste. i don't know the science of cables, but from what i experienced, thicker cables/ more braids usually beneficial to thin sounding earphones as it extends the bass and make the overall sound fatter. and if i want more analytical mids or less bass, i like thinner cables better. 

i can't give input about the difference of material like copper or silver. from what i see, the thickness has more effect


----------



## seanc6441

palestofwhite said:


> TBH, I did think of that too, but it seems that the "black" cable only looks similar and is not actually the same as the one that's on the black edition. Also, the lifetime warranty sort of sealed the deal for me. I might, in the future get the AOE though... Since I have the spare upgrade cables lying around...


The Zen black is using cardas cable afaik.


----------



## seanc6441

snip3r77 said:


> OK got it. Thanks


I remove them with a small cut by scissors then peel it back. Then just remove the wire underneath.


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> The Zen black is using cardas cable afaik.



Yep... I think it's made with Cardas Golden Selection AWG 26.5 cables...


----------



## tim0chan

palestofwhite said:


> Yep... I think it's made with Cardas Golden Selection AWG 26.5 cables...


i think its easy to diy that as a cable
\


----------



## seanc6441

tim0chan said:


> i think its easy to diy that as a cable
> \


Yes probably would work out cheaper.

I wonder what mogami cable would sound like on an earbud... That stuff is cheap and always praised for headphone use.


----------



## 40760 (Sep 28, 2018)

tim0chan said:


> i think its easy to diy that as a cable
> \



Sadly I'm lacking in the soldering department... 

Since I really like how the ZOE sounded with the 102ssc cables, it got me to want to try out the Black Edition and find out for myself how far it can go... I kind of know they probably aren't as expensive to make but let's just say curiosity got the best of me... 


seanc6441 said:


> Yes probably would work out cheaper.
> 
> I wonder what mogami cable would sound like on an earbud... That stuff is cheap and always praised for headphone use.



Seen that you've received some of your DIY wares... eagerly awaiting on your project to create your own custom earbuds...


----------



## Forty6

Speakers wires are damm good with the Zen .


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 28, 2018)

palestofwhite said:


> Sadly I'm lacking in the soldering department...
> 
> Since I really like how the ZOE sounded with the 102ssc cables, it got me to want to try out the Black Edition and find out for myself how far it can go... I kind of know they probably aren't as expensive to make but let's just say curiosity got the best of me...
> 
> ...


I have about 90% of the supplies now just waiting on the batch of silver and occ cable wire and I can let the diying commence.

Actually I need to buy a desk from Ikea to use as a little work station to put all the supplies so I never have to tidy up after working on these earbuds xD

Here's a few more things I got that I haven't shown yet




Mini Y splitter, metal plug, the 400ohm drivers, tuning filter paper.


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> I have about 90% of the supplies now just waiting on the batch of silver and occ cable wire and I can let the diying commence.
> 
> Actually I need to buy a desk from Ikea to use as a little work station to put all the supplies so I never have to tidy up after working on these earbuds xD
> 
> ...



Ah... you should get a small work desk with pull drawer and compartments to keep your tools and materials. Oh and not forget a desk lamp and cutting mat to work on...

Those C-shaped dampeners in your picture... I've seen them made in different materials... should be interesting to experiment and try out...


----------



## seanc6441

palestofwhite said:


> Ah... you should get a small work desk with pull drawer and compartments. I think that should be a decent workplace. Oh and not forget a desk lamp and cutting mat to work on...
> 
> Those C-shaped dampeners in your picture... I've seen them made in different materials... should be interesting to experiment and try out...


Yep I'll have drawers and shelves to keep stuff, a lamp is attached to the soldering 'station' I own and I didn't think of buying a matt (I presume it's non-slip right?) but that's a good idea.

The filters I got go from Y1-Y6 for varying thickness, if you want thinner again I see many pk buds using only pourous foam behind the driver, so its basically fully open.


----------



## EH-Yeon (Sep 28, 2018)

they are definitely not oyaide plug. They close resembled Taiwan made plug I had. Rhodium right angle right next to the earphone is oyaide's while the one plugged into the DAP is taiwanese plug.

Close in 30 hours of burn in process... This probably one of my favourite bud. I'm glad my Zen die on me and forced me on the road of searching new bud.

Can't really comment on the sound yet. Physically, the cable might be delicate since they are really soft to touch.  Hope they are not as fragile as they look.


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> Yep I'll have drawers and shelves to keep stuff, a lamp is attached to the soldering 'station' I own and I didn't think of buying a matt (I presume it's non-slip right?) but that's a good idea.
> 
> The filters I got go from Y1-Y6 for varying thickness, if you want thinner again I see many pk buds using only pourous foam behind the driver, so its basically fully open.



You should get a large cutting mat, mainly to protect the surface of the table and your knife blade when cutting. It's usually made of some rubbery plastic material, so it's pretty grippy and adds a non-slip surface for you to work on. You should be able to source them at your local arts and craft or office supplies stores.

Talking about the foams behind the drivers, I could let light shine through both the small holes on the left driver shell of the EB2, but not on the right side. I suspect either they're not real working ports, or maybe they forgot to apply the foam filter to the left driver for mine. Maybe you can help me check if yours are the same as mine?


----------



## silverfishla

seanc6441 said:


> I have about 90% of the supplies now just waiting on the batch of silver and occ cable wire and I can let the diying commence.
> 
> Actually I need to buy a desk from Ikea to use as a little work station to put all the supplies so I never have to tidy up after working on these earbuds xD
> 
> ...


Use a good solder like the Cardas Audio solder.  Tin the ends and points of contact with flux to get a nice joint.  Then, you’re golden.


----------



## daid1

Out of curiosity, there is anyone or any company that make iems and headphones customized like Cypherus do on his Red Dragon?


----------



## seanc6441

silverfishla said:


> Use a good solder like the Cardas Audio solder.  Tin the ends and points of contact with flux to get a nice joint.  Then, you’re golden.


I bought this solder in a smaller quantity

Senju 3 percent lead-free silver tin line, solder wire M705-0.4MM welding high-end audio / phone / motherboard 250g
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/DjplDFS

But mine is 1m of  0.8mm diameter solder.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Hello!

I'm trying to decide between SWD2+ and TM9. Anybody ever listened to both and knows the differences? Is the sound signature similar?


----------



## golov17

Marcos Fontana said:


> Hello!
> 
> I'm trying to decide between SWD2+ and TM9. Anybody ever listened to both and knows the differences? Is the sound signature similar?


TM-9 have more dark sig


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 28, 2018)

daid1 said:


> Out of curiosity, there is anyone or any company that make iems and headphones customized like Cypherus do on his Red Dragon?


Maybe Blur earbuds by Wong Kuan Wae.

Oh sorry you said headphones and IEMS. Well there's many CIEM manufacturers but I don't know any custom headphone makers other than people who mod and make parts for Grado type headphones.


----------



## subwoof3r (Sep 28, 2018)

After listening to EB2 after its first 6 hours of burning, here are my few quick impressions :

EBX soundstage is even more holographic and spacious. EB2 is slightly more intimate.
EB2 has slightly more coherent and linear sound.
EBX has much more subbass presence.
EBX has slightly some more upper mids bump than EB2.
Both shares same overall signature (same energy and both analytics).
Details retrieving looks almost the same, maybe in slight favor of EBX (by a very little margin)

EB2 performs just fantastic for the price! my best budget earbuds ever




snip3r77 said:


> Pls compare with mk2


Will do more in the full review but here is some tips : overall, MK2 has much more bass (mid bass especially) presence and hit harder than EB2. Soundstage, details, mids and treble are clearly in favor of EB2.



beyermann said:


> Mine should arrive soon
> 
> what are you using to drive them? did you test them in a phone vs laptop vs an USB interface vs headphone amiplifier and notice and changes?


I'm using Fostex HP-A8C as DAC+AMP at home and FiiO E10K at work. Two different sounding sources that today can give me a good opinion of each earbuds tested. The fostex one is more designed for TH900 first so slightly cut off bass and roll-off treble a bit, while mids beeing a bit forwarded with an overall better soundstage. The FiiO is more neutral with a slightly fun touch sounding.


----------



## kw8910

subwoof3r said:


> After listening to EB2 after its first 6 hours of burning, here are my few quick impressions :
> 
> EBX soundstage is even more holographic and spacious. EB2 is slightly more intimate.
> EB2 has slightly more coherent and linear sound.
> ...



Completely agree about the quality of sound for the price, appreciate the EBX comparison..surprised to hear about minimal improvement on the detail retrieval.  I noticed the bass on EB2 changes with more use, see if that's the case for you as well.


----------



## DAndrew

snip3r77 said:


> A lot of them said ry4s with UE cable is top notch



Welp, another earbud I must buy then haha


----------



## DAndrew

golov17 said:


> A simple cable does not prevent them from sounding great, by the way



Indeed! I was just super impressed that a cable _does_ affect sq, and in a good way too!


----------



## DAndrew

chinmie said:


> true, it all depends on the buds. Vido is infamous for gaining better sound after recabling, and i have tested the PT15 and Svara and also hear them improved with better cables.
> but i also found my Blox B200 is better with it's original cheap looking cable, and i like the standard Willsound MK300 cable than the 8 braided one.
> 
> but also take note, when i say better, it just means it is more suited for my subjective taste. i don't know the science of cables, but from what i experienced, thicker cables/ more braids usually beneficial to thin sounding earphones as it extends the bass and make the overall sound fatter. and if i want more analytical mids or less bass, i like thinner cables better.
> ...



Now I feel the urge to experiment lol


----------



## DBaldock9

snip3r77 said:


> A lot of them said ry4s with UE cable is top notch



It's pretty amazing that my $8.39 RY4S w/UE cable, sounds nearly as good as my $108 set of K's 500.


----------



## mbwilson111

DBaldock9 said:


> It's pretty amazing that my $8.39 RY4S w/UE cable, sounds nearly as good as my $108 set of K's 500.



I wonder when I will get my RY4S...


----------



## snip3r77

subwoof3r said:


> After listening to EB2 after its first 6 hours of burning, here are my few quick impressions :
> 
> EBX soundstage is even more holographic and spacious. EB2 is slightly more intimate.
> EB2 has slightly more coherent and linear sound.
> ...



Maybe run in abit more over the weekend. Would you say eb2 is on par with mk2?


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> I wonder when I will get my RY4S...


#MeToo


----------



## snip3r77

activatorfly said:


> #MeToo


It’s less than a burger meal


----------



## jogawag

DBaldock9 said:


> It's pretty amazing that my $8.39 RY4S w/UE cable, sounds nearly as good as my $108 set of K's 500.


At least "RY4S with UE cable" is upward compatible with "EMX500".


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 28, 2018)

EB2 bass can easily be improved by blocking1/4 -1/3 or the back port on each side with tape. The venting is really open on this earbud in default form and closing it slightly tightens the bass response and to my ears the low mids gain the weight it was lacking.



Try it out and see what you think. I'd start with only blocking a tiny amount, maybe block the side to the back of the ear only and 1/3 of it. It will tame the mid bass slightly so the bass will tighten but it will also increase the upper mids/lower treble slightly.


----------



## snip3r77

I think there are too many earbuds around and I think we need some ranking system else the purchasing is pretty haphazard. The last time I think someone did but there's no one that followed up.
I don't mind to do it but I need input from everyone .

Maybe the category should be

<$5
<$10
<$15
<$20
<$50
>$100

What do you guys think?


----------



## toear

DBaldock9 said:


> It's pretty amazing that my $8.39 RY4S w/UE cable, sounds nearly as good as my $108 set of K's 500.


........ Link please?.....


----------



## snip3r77

toear said:


> ........ Link please?.....



https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...211.html?spm=2114.12010615.0.0.6f924d6etMsXgq

Select the THIRD or FOURTH option.


----------



## iron2k

snip3r77 said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...211.html?spm=2114.12010615.0.0.6f924d6etMsXgq
> 
> Select the THIRD or FOURTH option.


Any difference between the options?


----------



## toear

snip3r77 said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...211.html?spm=2114.12010615.0.0.6f924d6etMsXgq
> 
> Select the THIRD or FOURTH option.



   thanks!


----------



## ClieOS

snip3r77 said:


> I think there are too many earbuds around and I think we need some ranking system else the purchasing is pretty haphazard. The last time I think someone did but there's no one that followed up.
> I don't mind to do it but I need input from everyone .
> 
> Maybe the category should be
> ...



Any kind of ranking will just be a personal opinion. There is no idealistical way to objectively rank what essentially an subjective perception of quality. I tried, and only to find a good number of people, especially new comers, to be misled by the ranking system as they treated it like some sort of be-all-ends-all list without considering the difference between their own taste and mine. What is meant to be a starting guide for self-exploration into the earbuds was blindly followed as an absolute quick fix. Hence why I remove the ranking all together as I begin to feel that it has began to do more harm than help when people coming back to complain that they found a lower ranked earbud to sound better than a higher ranked one. People are lazy, and will trust a simple 'number' rather than spending the time to find the sound signature they like the most - warm+sweet, analytical, neutral, or bassy - these characters somehow become nonessential for many when they can easily find someone to tell them which ranked higher.  That, to me, is the WRONG way to enjoy this hobby.


----------



## chinmie

snip3r77 said:


> I think there are too many earbuds around and I think we need some ranking system else the purchasing is pretty haphazard. The last time I think someone did but there's no one that followed up.
> I don't mind to do it but I need input from everyone .
> 
> Maybe the category should be
> ...



different people will give you different ranking list altogether. we can make a collective list based on popularity per- price category, but to rank them would be difficult.


----------



## snip3r77

chinmie said:


> different people will give you different ranking list altogether. we can make a collective list based on popularity per- price category, but to rank them would be difficult.



Yeah a guide should be better . There are some earbuds that are a total whack.


----------



## golov17




----------



## seanc6441

golov17 said:


>


All left side are clones? Right side authentic?


----------



## iron2k

seanc6441 said:


> All left side are clones? Right side authentic?


Yes


----------



## RuFrost

Can somebody translate it, please?? 


golov17 said:


>


----------



## Zerohour88

golov17 said:


>



phew, lucky I got original Viablue plugs for the silver cables I ordered from taobao:


----------



## HeadlessChicken

RuFrost said:


> Can somebody translate it, please??



my own translations below the original text, except where there is no space
all credits to OP and original creators
no assumption of liability for anything herein


----------



## subwoof3r

seanc6441 said:


> EB2 bass can easily be improved by blocking1/4 -1/3 or the back port on each side with tape. The venting is really open on this earbud in default form and closing it slightly tightens the bass response and to my ears the low mids gain the weight it was lacking.
> 
> 
> Try it out and see what you think. I'd start with only blocking a tiny amount, maybe block the side to the back of the ear only and 1/3 of it. It will tame the mid bass slightly so the bass will tighten but it will also increase the upper mids/lower treble slightly.



Just tried your tips but unfortunately I can't see any difference at all. I tried with both tape and patafix but nothing worked. I found the sound slightly even better without, so I decided to let them stock for now.
The included gray foams (which are the same used on ABnormal provided on Rholupat during my Willsound orders) are pretty good and the best choice of stock foams for EB2 (at least to me).


----------



## subwoof3r

HeadlessChicken said:


> my own translations below the original text, except where there is no space
> all credits to OP and original creators
> no assumption of liability for anything herein


So it is a fake Oyaide used on Blox TM9, sad news.. especially for the asked price


----------



## cocolinho

I cannot imagine how big is the margin on this then...


----------



## snip3r77 (Sep 29, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> So it is a fake Oyaide used on Blox TM9, sad news.. especially for the asked price


Fake or not
 Connectors introduce a lot of friction , those rhodium plating will encounter wear and tear


----------



## ClieOS

Blox never promised real Oyaide plug, so I am not sure what the complaint is about. Most of the ToTL earbuds don't use fancy big brand name plug either, and none of them sound less impressive because of it. If fancy plug is really that important to you, just have it reterminated yourself. Not the end of the world there. I personally use a lot of the fake Oyaide plug on most of my DIY cable and they sound just fine. Used the real plug before as well and it really doesn't offer anything more than aesthetic.


----------



## EH-Yeon

subwoof3r said:


> So it is a fake Oyaide used on Blox TM9, sad news.. especially for the asked price


tbh, i don't really care as long as the sound delivers. A lot of TOTL used injection moulded plug... I still find Blox plug still a better choice.


----------



## redkingjoe

subwoof3r said:


> So it is a fake Oyaide used on Blox TM9, sad news.. especially for the asked price



It seems my blur and my much cheaper Shozy are using the real one!

From a more optimistic view for the existing TM9 user, simply change the plug to the real one will make the sound better! I have been playing with DIY for more than 20 years. An inferior plug induce data loss（particularly both frequency extreme) and degrade sound quality making it harsher.

With the asking price, i think they should help each of us to change the plug to the real one, free of charge!


----------



## redkingjoe (Sep 29, 2018)




----------



## ClieOS

It is interesting that people are upset for thing no one promised to give them in the first place.


----------



## Fabi

Yes, agreed.
What matters to me first is what the maker has achieved soundwise with the parts he chose, more than the parts used alone.
And TM9 are TOTL earbuds without a doubt.
Of course we can always wonder, what if it comes with this part or that part, actually I don't care much about this.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 29, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> It is interesting that people are upset for thing no one promised to give them in the first place.


As you are a guy with vast listening experience and you say the real vs good quality clone makes no sonic difference I'll believe it.

As long as the plug design is good and the matierial used is durable and good for conductivity we can assume they also used the right solder and shielding for the termination... After all they are audio experts.

I'd be more upset if I found out they did a poor job at soldering or left out the shielding etc, that would show actual negligence. I doubt that is the case here.


----------



## 40760

I think as long as Blox doesn't claim they're using genuine Oyaide plugs, it's actually fine.

Of course some customers may not feel good that they are given a "cloned" part. Could be due to the perception of having a lower quality part and felt short-changed, or for respect of intellectual rights to original designs. No right or wrong here.

Of course, all this could have been avoided if Blox were to use genuine Oyaide plugs, or plug designs that doesn't resemble (clones) those of the big brands, such as those generic ones found on the SWD2+.


----------



## subwoof3r (Sep 29, 2018)

palestofwhite said:


> I think as long as Blox doesn't claim they're using genuine Oyaide plugs, it's actually fine..


Exactly.

But i just wonder why for 280$, Woo didnt choose a real Oyaide plug instead a fake one.
Personally, if I'll do an earbuds at this price tag, be sure I'll make make them with genuine parts only.
For 50$ it's ok, but for almost 300.. not sure.
Anyaway I don't believe in a sonic difference between a real and fake plug, as I didn't have the chance to do this kind of comparison for now.


----------



## 40760

subwoof3r said:


> Exactly.
> 
> But i just wonder why for 280$, Woo didnt choose a real Oyaide plug instead a fake one.
> Personally, if I'll do an earbuds at this price tag, be sure I'll make make them with genuine parts only.
> ...



It's perfectly normal for you to feel that way. I think you should email them bout it if answers can make you feel better...


----------



## Danneq

I have no problem with the TM9 plug not being Oyaide. I really thought it was one since I didn't notice the small difference from the Oyaide plug on my Cypherus earbuds.

TM7 sounds amazing even with the cheap cable and plug it uses. Even the Monk+ cable is far superior to the one used on Blox TM7, but the TM7 is leagues above Monk+ in audio quality.


----------



## Narayan23

iron2k said:


> Any difference between the options?



I got the Blue non UE version of the RY4S because I fancied the cable colour   I don´t think the 77 cent more expensive UE cable version would provide any discernable difference to my ears.


----------



## Makahl

Even the $2000 HifiMan RE-2000 uses an Oyaide clone. It's not like it'll change the SQ at all. It just gives a fancier look at the end of the day. If Blox advertised it as Oyaide plug then it'd make sense. 

I asked whether the plug was a clone or not because reading reviews people were mentioning it was an Oyaide plug which was not the case.


----------



## Narayan23

Danneq said:


> I have no problem with the TM9 plug not being Oyaide. I really thought it was one since I didn't notice the small difference from the Oyaide plug on my Cypherus earbuds.
> 
> TM7 sounds amazing even with the cheap cable and plug it uses. Even the Monk+ cable is far superior to the one used on Blox TM7, but the TM7 is leagues above Monk+ in audio quality.



They could use any plug they wanted but had to go for a cheap imitation of Oyaide, at the price point and in an allegedly TOTL product I find this decision questionable. Use the real deal, charge $10 more for it if you get scroogey and don´t want it to eat up any of your already fat profit margin, et voilá, nobody would complain and we wouldn´t be having this discussion.


----------



## Danneq

Narayan23 said:


> They could use any plug they wanted but had to go for a cheap imitation of Oyaide, at the price point and in an allegedly TOTL product I find this decision questionable. Use the real deal, charge $10 more for it if you get scroogey and don´t want it to eat up any of your already fat profit margin, et voilá, nobody would complain and we wouldn´t be having this discussion.



Sure, but at this level I think it's more about SQ and TM9 does deliver in that area. The "too polite" sound signature that I sort of complained about is something that Blox was aiming for. Just like the "too bloody sharp" highs of Rose Mojito was something that they aimed for.


----------



## bavinck

I've got a mint shozy bk single ended if anyone is interested. Pm me. 

Also, the TM9 soundstage was not impressing me. But then something happened. One day the soundstage just frickin exploded in size. I am not a big believer in "burn in" (as I am sure is obvious) but this was impressive. Very large out of head experience at this point.


----------



## bavinck

Danneq said:


> Sure, but at this level I think it's more about SQ and TM9 does deliver in that area. The "too polite" sound signature that I sort of complained about is something that Blox was aiming for. Just like the "too bloody sharp" highs of Rose Mojito was something that they aimed for.



Yes the TM9 is a laid back sound. I like that. But my favourite headphone is the HD650 so that makes sense.


----------



## subwoof3r (Sep 29, 2018)

Do you guys have a slight channel imbalance on your NiceHCK *EB2* too?

Looks like my pair have slightly more volume and bass on the R than the L driver (remembering me my first EBX issue, while beeing less exagerated this time).
It's ok but looks like I have 90% of the volume on the L driver, so listening experience is a bit broken due to this.
Tried listening without foams, same issue, changing foams, same issue.


----------



## snip3r77

subwoof3r said:


> Do you guys have a slight channel imbalance on your NiceHCK *EB2* too?
> 
> Looks like my pair have slightly more volume and bass on the R than the L driver (remembering me my first EBX issue, while beeing less exagerated this time).
> It's ok but looks like I have 90% of the volume on the L driver, so listening experience is a bit broken due to this.
> Tried listening without foams, same issue, changing foams, same issue.


RMA it


----------



## 40760

subwoof3r said:


> Do you guys have a slight channel imbalance on your NiceHCK *EB2* too?
> 
> Looks like my pair have slightly more volume and bass on the R than the L driver (remembering me my first EBX issue, while beeing less exagerated this time).
> It's ok but looks like I have 90% of the volume on the L driver, so listening experience is a bit broken due to this.
> Tried listening without foams, same issue, changing foams, same issue.



Check if the 2 tiny air vents at the back of the driver shells are blocked on the right driver. Mine is the case, and I suspect I have the same problem too. Although it's very minute.


----------



## silverfishla

subwoof3r said:


> Do you guys have a slight channel imbalance on your NiceHCK *EB2* too?
> 
> Looks like my pair have slightly more volume and bass on the R than the L driver (remembering me my first EBX issue, while beeing less exagerated this time).
> It's ok but looks like I have 90% of the volume on the L driver, so listening experience is a bit broken due to this.
> Tried listening without foams, same issue, changing foams, same issue.


My EB2 did not have imbalance.  But my EBX did for the first day.  I let them burn in for another day or so and the imbalance went away.  Try letting them run for awhile, then try them again.  If that doesn’t help, then try to get a replacement.


----------



## chinmie

subwoof3r said:


> Do you guys have a slight channel imbalance on your NiceHCK *EB2* too?
> 
> Looks like my pair have slightly more volume and bass on the R than the L driver (remembering me my first EBX issue, while beeing less exagerated this time).
> It's ok but looks like I have 90% of the volume on the L driver, so listening experience is a bit broken due to this.
> Tried listening without foams, same issue, changing foams, same issue.



does this happen from the first day you got it? try blowing some air from the from and the the back vent, and also (bear with me here, as this might sound odd) try create a vacuum with your lips and suck the air gently. sometimes that will correct them. if not, i would call the  seller


----------



## ClieOS

Spent the morning recabling these two: Sennheiser MX90vc and LX90


----------



## gazzington

Been looking at moonbuds on earbuds anonymous. Anybody have experience of those?


----------



## Carrow

gazzington said:


> Been looking at moonbuds on earbuds anonymous. Anybody have experience of those?



I'm using a pair of 8-core cable Crescents rn


----------



## gazzington

Carrow said:


> I'm using a pair of 8-core cable Crescents rn


What are they like?


----------



## Carrow

gazzington said:


> What are they like?



Very comfortable, good soundstage with emphasis on bass and mids. Not using my main source right now, but my phone drives them very well


----------



## theresanarc

What do I get to cover the back holes on earbuds? Does just regular electric/hockey tape do the job or do I need something more specialized?


----------



## activatorfly

theresanarc said:


> What do I get to cover the back holes on earbuds? Does just regular electric/hockey tape do the job or do I need something more specialized?


Yes duct tape usually is sufficient....


----------



## bhima

Got a deal on the Shozy BK that I could not pass up. Time to play the waiting game, though its likely less of a waiting game than having them shipped from China. Here's hoping they are what I'm looking for in a PK shell.


----------



## redkingjoe

bhima said:


> Got a deal on the Shozy BK that I could not pass up. Time to play the waiting game, though its likely less of a waiting game than having them shipped from China. Here's hoping they are what I'm looking for in a PK shell.



Happy for you! Bk a classic and a reference. I found that a lot of people keep comparing TOTL of various brands to Bk!

I have both Bk and Bk blue(the silver cable edition). They are very enjoyable buds.


----------



## redkingjoe

Narayan23 said:


> They could use any plug they wanted but had to go for a cheap imitation of Oyaide, at the price point and in an allegedly TOTL product I find this decision questionable. Use the real deal, charge $10 more for it if you get scroogey and don´t want it to eat up any of your already fat profit margin, et voilá, nobody would complain and we wouldn´t be having this discussion.



Frankly, I wish they either used some real one（any  brands) or use the real oyiade and charge the damned $9.99. 

We don’t depend on oyiade to get good SQ. A lot of TOTLs simply use some good plugs.

I hate to see fake ones.


----------



## ClieOS

If you really can't get pass the Oyaide clone, just don't buy it.


----------



## redkingjoe

Danneq said:


> Sure, but at this level I think it's more about SQ and TM9 does deliver in that area. The "too polite" sound signature that I sort of complained about is something that Blox was aiming for. Just like the "too bloody sharp" highs of Rose Mojito was something that they aimed for.



Arguably, low cost cheap imitation products use inferior material! Lower grade product affects sound quality.

For example, in the earbuds history of Sony’s mdr e 868, 888, 484, Sony used some inferior plugs or cables in some of the productions. The sound quality was compromised! 

Unless we put the real one on TM9, we don’t know the full potential of it!


----------



## Danneq

redkingjoe said:


> Arguably, low cost cheap imitation products use inferior material! Lower grade product affects sound quality.
> 
> For example, in the earbuds history of Sony’s mdr e 868, 888, 484, Sony used some inferior plugs or cables in some of the productions. The sound quality was compromised!
> 
> Unless we put the real one on TM9, we don’t know the full potential of it!



I am sure that Woo and the 1 or 2 others at Blox know what they are doing. The drivers of TM9 are 100% handmade by Blox. So I am sure that they carefully have selected each component for the TM9 earbuds.


----------



## seanc6441

Danneq said:


> I am sure that Woo and the 1 or 2 others at Blox know what they are doing. The drivers of TM9 are 100% handmade by Blox. So I am sure that they carefully have selected each component for the TM9 earbuds.


Very true. Unless there's literally signs of bad workmanship like a dodgy solder job or poorly braided cable I think we have to give the benefit of the doubt that the oyaide clone is good quality and doesn't effect SQ.


----------



## RuFrost (Oct 1, 2018)

Selling almost all my earbuds! ||| Zen Black Cardas ||| K'Black Ling ||| Monk v1, Monk+, Ourart TI7 (+upg. cable), Yincrow x6, Quin 25 recabled |||
PM me if interested)


----------



## gazzington

Just bought a ibasso dx200 with amp 8 from a headfier. Anybody know good buds to use with it to give me a warm analytical sound?


----------



## chaiyuta

I looked up to Titanium Ling official taobao page. Now its cost is 2999 yuan or about 437$. Does @ClieOS have any update news about this bud?


----------



## cocolinho

gazzington said:


> to give me a warm analytical sound?


Well... these 2 characterics don't go together, still I'm enjoying my Willsound MK2 with Alo CDM a lot


----------



## tim0chan

chaiyuta said:


> I looked up to Titanium Ling official taobao page. Now its cost is 2999 yuan or about 437$. Does @ClieOS have any update news about this bud?


Link pls


----------



## Narayan23

I can understand the New Kids On the Blox not liking criticism, most likely sound quality remains unaffected, but if I buy a Ferrari I don´t want some el cheapo chinese imitation of Pirelli P Zero tyres, I pay for and the car deserves to get genuine parts. Using imitations and demanding TOTL prices is a rip off no matter how you want to call it. No, I won´t buy them and I also won´t defend the undefendable.


----------



## ClieOS (Oct 1, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> I looked up to Titanium Ling official taobao page. Now its cost is 2999 yuan or about 437$. Does @ClieOS have any update news about this bud?



That's the pre-order link and typically it might not be the final price. However, I'll ask around and see if that's the latest price or not. But given this week is their National days (one of the two major holidays in China), I won't hold my breath on any quick answer,


----------



## chaiyuta

tim0chan said:


> Link pls


the taobao link



ClieOS said:


> That's the pre-order link and typically it might not be the final price. However, I'll ask around and see if that's the latest price or not. But given this week is their National days (one of the two major holidays in China), I won't hold my breath on any quick answer,


Thanks for reply me. Awaiting for news update~


----------



## ClieOS

Narayan23 said:


> I can understand the New Kids On the Blox not liking criticism, most likely sound quality remains unaffected, but if I buy a Ferrari I don´t want some el cheapo chinese imitation of Pirelli P Zero tyres, I pay for and the car deserves to get genuine parts. Using imitations and demanding TOTL prices is a rip off no matter how you want to call it. No, I won´t buy them and I also won´t defend the undefendable.



If Blox claimed it was an Oyaide in the first place, then you do deserve a real Oyaide. But they didn't say anything about the plug, and thus there is no deception there. If there is no claim of authenticity in the first place, then there is no issue of genuine part or not. You get a functional plug with a certain styling and that's that.


----------



## mbwilson111

ClieOS said:


> If Blox claimed it was an Oyaide in the first place, then you do deserve a real Oyaide. But they didn't say anything about the plug, and thus there is no deception there. If there is no claim of authenticity in the first place, then there is no issue of genuine part or not. You get a functional plug with a certain styling and that's that.



I am not planning to get the Blox, but I totally agree with this statement.  All this arguing and complaining about the plug is getting boring.


----------



## activatorfly (Oct 1, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I am not planning to get the Blox, but I totally agree with this statement.  All this arguing and complaining about the plug is getting boring.


I couldn't agree more! - last week I was definitely going to buy TM9 (email still in inbox.) - However, I decided against ordering days before "plug-gate"!!


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 1, 2018)

cocolinho said:


> Well... these 2 characterics don't go together, still I'm enjoying my Willsound MK2 with Alo CDM a lot


I think the Toneking TO400 or Shozy BK are the closest to that description. Although both only hint at warmness, the TO400 has a cleaner midrange but the bk has a better bass response although slightly bloated. Warm is hard to achieve in an analytical sig because by that definition analytical is neutral to pull the most details.


----------



## Danneq

Narayan23 said:


> I can understand the New Kids On the Blox not liking criticism, most likely sound quality remains unaffected, but if I buy a Ferrari I don´t want some el cheapo chinese imitation of Pirelli P Zero tyres, I pay for and the car deserves to get genuine parts. Using imitations and demanding TOTL prices is a rip off no matter how you want to call it. No, I won´t buy them and I also won´t defend the undefendable.



Blox TM5 was released in 2010 (or even 2009). TM7 in 2012 (I remember how I kept refreshing the Blox homepage until a new batch was available and I could order my pair of TM7).

Blox is far from a newcomer and has got a spotless track record for its flagship earbuds. I can guarantee that TM7 and TM9 can go up against ANY TOTL earbud and stand proud. It might not win every fight, but no matter what components Blox uses they keep producing some of the best sounding TOTL earbuds.


----------



## RuFrost (Oct 3, 2018)

Opinion about plug issue:
There are two type of not just opinions,but mentalities and could be the way of life in general there: the one who cares and the one who is not. Before the picture which identifies fake and true plugs was posted, I even did not know that fakes exist. I hate lie, I hate faking in general, I hate evil. Yes, the one cannot serve to two masters\lords - the one is going to be loved and another one is going to be hated. Fake plugs is a plagiarism. Plagiarism is a stealing. The one who steal is a thief. Thieves harms society, harms certain souls and their life and business. They become satan co-workers. In universities, the one who plagiarise, steal gets very hard punishment and can be excluded from all Universities in NA at all ever. So when you know that something is stolen and you buy it, then you become so-blamer,partner in crime and let evil spread. So when you earbuds' maker you must come through the process of choosing which components to install, where to buy them and how to combine all of it together.
There are the main questions:
1) Did Blox know at all that real and fakes exist? If no, than there is no blame on them. The world is huge and absence of knowledge in one sphere is understandable. But most probably they know the difference, as they produce earbuds for many years.
2) If so and they deliberately bought fakes one, then why they did it? Currently, I see no reason which can justify it, but Blox is the maker, so can reveal some particularities which can justify their choice.
3) What was the reasoning and intention of choosing fake plugs?

The one must not be a genius to understand that fake plugs (as any fake product) harms the business of original ones. So when you buy fake plugs, you support thieves and harm,disrespect honest thinkers, makers, engineers and their work for which they received specific education and spent hundred of hours to create, develop and earn reputation.


----------



## mbwilson111

This is getting ridiculous... I am out of here


----------



## HungryPanda

Wow. Who rattled that cage?


----------



## Marcos Fontana (Oct 1, 2018)

RuFrost said:


> Opinion about plug issue:
> There are two type of not just opinions,but mentalities and could be the way of life in general there: the one who cares and the one who is not. Before the picture which identifies fake and true plugs was posted, I even did not know that fakes exist. I hate lie, I hate faking in general, I hate evil. Yes, the one cannot serve to two masters\lords - the one is going to be loved and another one is going to be hated. Fake plugs is a plagiarism. Plagiarism is a stealing. The one who steal is a thief. Thieves harms society, harms certain souls and their life and business. They become satan co-workers. In universities, the one who plagiarise, steal gets very hard punishment and can be excluded from all Universities in NA at all ever. So when you know that something is stolen and you buy it, then you become so-blamer,partner in crime and let evil spread. So when you earbuds' maker you must come through the process of choosing which components to install, where to buy them and how to combine all of it together.
> There are the main questions:
> 1) Did Blox know at all that real and fakes exist? If no, than there is no blame on them. The world is huge and absence of knowledge in one sphere is understandable. But most probably they know the difference, as they produce earbuds for many years.
> ...



Beautful words.


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## rkw

And while we're at it, we should only buy MX500 shell earbuds that come from Sennheiser.


----------



## B9Scrambler

rkw said:


> And while we're at it, we should only buy MX500 shell earbuds that come from Sennheiser.



Make sure to use a thinly veiled version of their logo for your company too!


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


>


Yup with a headset like that there's no way you are hearing god himself


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> Yup with a headset like that there's no way you are hearing god himself



That was a selfie.


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> That was a selfie.



i see that he's in your favorite color, purple


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> i see that he's in your favorite color, purple



LOL


----------



## chinmie

in other news, a blox TM9 has just been sold for $100 in my local market few days ago. took everyone by surprise. . of course it doesn't last very long before someone swiped it


----------



## activatorfly

chinmie said:


> in other news, a blox TM9 has just been sold for $100 in my local market few days ago. took everyone by surprise. . of course it doesn't last very long before someone swiped it


Wow!.....wish that was my local market for sure! lol


----------



## ClieOS (Oct 1, 2018)

RuFrost said:


> ....
> If we shift our point of views from simple egoism, hedonism and I-centrism, than we will meet absolutely parallel universe where loyalty to God (the Creator of the Universe Who is the Truth and the Love) and being honest with yourself and others is much more important than money, personal pleasure or friendship with thieves. So all this plug issues is not simple about physical materials used in the earbuds, but about ourselves and what side (good or evil) we choose in this life, because we will stay with it forever after the death.



Let step back and look at this issue as a whole: Before we even come to these Oyaide plugs' discussion, this thread is already full of earbuds that used MX500, MX760, PK (which more accurately is NTT Docomo's) as well as K314 shell. With the exception of HiFiKIWI (*not particularly popular brand here, but their earbuds, which used MX500 and K314 shell, are made by Foster, which is the original OEM for these shell and thus properly licensed), all of them are clone of another companies' design. Yet for the love of God most people here care nothing about them. @RuFrost, please recount how many earbuds you have bought that used one of those shells but ain't officially licensed / made by Sennheiser, NTT Docomo, AKG or Foster? Now that you know this (and I suspect you probably already know about it in the bottom of your heart for a long time, but choose to ignore it like the rest of us), will you toss out all of those clones or burn them to the ground? Will you vouch that you will never buy another earbud that doesn't have an original design?

It is easy to want to stand on the moral highground, but as far as I can tell, we are all sinner here. You can not tell us that you can't accept a plug that looks like Oyaide but it is not (and never claimed to be one), while feel okay for getting earbuds that looks like MX500 / MX760 / PK / K314 but clearly ain't. If those of you want to stand hard and firm on this issue, do it all the way. Otherwise it is just hypocritical.


----------



## doggiemom

This thread has taken an odd turn......  Way too deep for me.

Got tracking info for a couple of Moonbuds today.  Apparently I will be the first US owner!  No promises were made about branding of specific components, just brief descriptions of sound signatures.  Tried to order two that are very different, so hopefully one or both will suit my fancy.


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## ClieOS

chaiyuta said:


> I looked up to Titanium Ling official taobao page. Now its cost is 2999 yuan or about 437$. Does @ClieOS have any update news about this bud?



On a more positive note, I have comfirmed with K's that, at least for the low impedance version of the Titanium Ling, it will be priced as the same as I have reported previously, for RMB2300 or around USD345.

Also Black and White Ling will be discontinued in near future. An more entry level Ling will be introduced at RMB200 or USD30


----------



## B9Scrambler

Linsoul BLD + Radsone ES100 makes for an ear pleasing combo 

​


----------



## HungryPanda

Listening to my Linsoul BLD 150ohm 4.4mm balanced woth DX200 and amp8. Lovely.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 1, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> On a more positive note, I have comfirmed with K's that, at least for the low impedance version of the Titanium Ling, it will be priced as the same as I have reported previously, for RMB2300 or around USD345.
> 
> Also Black and White Ling will be discontinued in near future. An more entry level Ling will be introduced at RMB200 or USD30


Nice my Ling will be rare xD

And extra nice having a 30 usd 'ling' type shell from K's. May be plastic though like the EB2.

I'm really glad K's moved on from MX500 shells (not because of this weird discussion going on) because the Ling type shell is so comfortable and erogonomic to the ear. While retaining a good size internal chamber for good air volume and less resonance effects probably.


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> And extra nice having a 30 usd 'ling' type shell from K's. May be plastic though like the EB2



The EB2 is metal not plastic.


----------



## rkw

mbwilson111 said:


> The EB2 is metal not plastic.


Darn, I have a fake one.


----------



## gazzington

Has anyone ever compiled a sort of top ten earbuds to help head fiers with their expenditure?


----------



## Dubusal

Danneq said:


> got an e-mail from Herry of Cypherus earlier today.
> 
> He enclosed the following photo:
> 
> ...



It’s mine haha


----------



## Danneq

Dubusal said:


> It’s mine haha



So you own the younger brother of my Red Dragon? Congratulations!


----------



## snip3r77

gazzington said:


> Has anyone ever compiled a sort of top ten earbuds to help head fiers with their expenditure?


I wanted to make one based on category


----------



## gazzington

snip3r77 said:


> I wanted to make one based on category


That would be awesome. I use final e5000 iems at the moment but I need to hear stuff around me in work. So I'm after something comfortable and reasonably neutral


----------



## Themilkman46290

I wish that someone would do it, it's been suggested many many times


----------



## chinmie

gazzington said:


> Has anyone ever compiled a sort of top ten earbuds to help head fiers with their expenditure?





snip3r77 said:


> I wanted to make one based on category



what category do you have in mind? price based?

i think someone did make a survey of earbuds segmented in price and filled via data entries from people here (if I'm not mistaken @jogawag was the one that made it?)

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1...1GewDzZ4k7aXFMEQNhRu7Vxg3C-9Q2A/viewanalytics

i think it would be great if this survey is made continuously open and be put on the first page of this thread so anyone can contribute and use it


----------



## gazzington

I think by sound type would be awesome.


----------



## Dubusal

Danneq said:


> So you own the younger brother of my Red Dragon? Congratulations!



Thank u danneq

I used to see this place often. 

I am delighted to meet herry because of the people here.

I heard a lot of earphones, but I am currently focusing on ZF, liebeslide, and SWD2 +. The Red Dragon Utopia version has not been shipped yet. 

I am waiting for a product test


----------



## Danneq

Themilkman46290 said:


> I wish that someone would do it, it's been suggested many many times



ClieOS used to have a great list in the first post of this thread but removed it since people complained to him if they bought a pair of earbuds that he placed high and didn't like it. That's annoying and just stupid so you cannot blame ClieOS for removing the list.

1 year ago @jogawag ceated an earbud survey. It is closed now but over 100 people replied and rated the earbuds they had heard. From that survey you could get an okay idea about some earbuds (based on people's subjective perception of them).

Then there are head fiers who make their own lists on their profile pages. I've got a top 10 (well, top 8) of my favorite earbuds that I currently own. I have not yet included Blox TM9 but it will end up high in the list.


----------



## Danneq

chinmie said:


> what category do you have in mind? price based?
> 
> i think someone did make a survey of earbuds segmented in price and filled via data entries from people here (if I'm not mistaken @jogawag was the one that made it?)
> 
> ...



You beat me to it!


----------



## redkingjoe

chinmie said:


> in other news, a blox TM9 has just been sold for $100 in my local market few days ago. took everyone by surprise. . of course it doesn't last very long before someone swiped it



Selling at $100 and still make a huge profit!


----------



## redkingjoe

Danneq said:


> Please keep theology out of earbud discussions, or else I will let the Norse God of thunder Tor let thunder and lightning pour down on this thread! ( No, not the silly Marvel character, the real stuff!)



Theoretically speaking, the Poseidon cable is truly adorable!


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Oct 2, 2018)

How are the k's samsara compared to blurs? And do the blurs have any high impedance models


----------



## redkingjoe

rkw said:


> And while we're at it, we should only buy MX500 shell earbuds that come from Sennheiser.



I did talk to a senior executive of shozy! Their pk type shell is in the public domain, which means everyone can use it. Nevertheless, I don’t know anything about shell of MX500.

As a end user, or consumer, it’s hard to know whether a product, or its parts, is violating any kind of laws!


----------



## Themilkman46290

Danneq said:


> ClieOS used to have a great list in the first post of this thread but removed it since people complained to him if they bought a pair of earbuds that he placed high and didn't like it. That's annoying and just stupid so you cannot blame ClieOS for removing the list.
> 
> 1 year ago @jogawag ceated an earbud survey. It is closed now but over 100 people replied and rated the earbuds they had heard. From that survey you could get an okay idea about some earbuds (based on people's subjective perception of them).
> 
> Then there are head fiers who make their own lists on their profile pages. I've got a top 10 (well, top 8) of my favorite earbuds that I currently own. I have not yet included Blox TM9 but it will end up high in the list.



I found that list, I think, I used it to get a couple of buds, I can understand why, they probably didn't like bright or dark signatures, I bought my ty hi z off of that list and am pretty happy with them, I think the list was good but if it had indicated the sound signatures it would have worked better, my problem is every time I get excited on some totl buds and get ready to order, I read a review saying they are missing this freq, or have too much of that freq, basically same list but next to the score it can have a b for bassheavy or n for neutral, v for vshaped sound, b for bright

Because I would like a pair of totl buds but I don't like very bright, need some good sub bass, so far got my sights on k's samsara and k's 500 ohm waiting for 11/11


----------



## Danneq

redkingjoe said:


> I did talk to a senior executive of shozy! Their pk type shell is in the public domain, which means everyone can use it. Nevertheless, I don’t know anything about shell of MX500.
> 
> As a end user, or consumer, it’s hard to know whether a product, or its parts, is violating any kind of laws!



Yuin has been using those shells since around 2006 or 2007 and MX500 type shells have been used by Blox since 2010, there might be other makers who have used them before. So I think the MX500 type shells also are in the public domain. Sennheiser haven't used them for over 10 years now.




Themilkman46290 said:


> I found that list, I think, I used it to get a couple of buds, I can understand why, they probably didn't like bright or dark signatures, I bought my ty hi z off of that list and am pretty happy with them, I think the list was good but if it had indicated the sound signatures it would have worked better, my problem is every time I get excited on some totl buds and get ready to order, I read a review saying they are missing this freq, or have too much of that freq, basically same list but next to the score it can have a b for bassheavy or n for neutral, v for vshaped sound, b for bright
> 
> Because I would like a pair of totl buds but I don't like very bright, need some good sub bass, so far got my sights on k's samsara and k's 500 ohm waiting for 11/11



If I had time I could try to create something, since I have heard most low impedance TOTL earbuds (I gave up on high impedance since I didn't want to bother with portable amps etc).

Personally I found the upper mids on K's 500 ohm to be a bit fatiguing (that was before I gave up on high impedance earbuds) and felt I could not keep them.

Cypherus ZoomFred might fit your preference perfectly. They have the best sub bass I've heard in a pair of earbuds (well, except for Red Dragon) but are not bass head earbuds. They have slightly too much bass though to be called neutral but I still do not think they are bass head earbuds.


----------



## Themilkman46290

Danneq said:


> Yuin has been using those shells since around 2006 or 2007 and MX500 type shells have been used by Blox since 2010, there might be other makers who have used them before. So I think the MX500 type shells also are in the public domain. Sennheiser haven't used them for over 10 years now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yea I am in the market mainly for high impedance, but that sounds like what I want, I like warm neutral


----------



## 40760 (Oct 2, 2018)

After trying the VE Zen, high impedance earbuds are kinda great... so much so I'm thinking of investing in a decent desktop D/A. Since I don't use earbuds when I'm out and about anyway, due to the lack of isolation.

That being said, the SWD2+ @ 16/32ohms are great too! But, I'm definitely looking at higher impedance earbuds moving forward...


----------



## chinmie

redkingjoe said:


> Selling at $100 and still make a huge profit!



naah, it was someone selling his used collection, so no monetary profit there


----------



## blackberriesandthinkpads (Oct 2, 2018)

Damn, didn't know there was going to be a low impedance version of the K's Titanium Ling so never paid attention to it's discussion. Anyone know how low?

What kind of sound profile will the Titanium Ling have?

Metal housing?

A large sum of money recently departed my bank account for some TOTL buds, hope it wasn't premature...


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> May be plastic though like the EB2.



Wait, what? Wasnt it supposed to be metal?


----------



## snip3r77

chinmie said:


> what category do you have in mind? price based?
> 
> i think someone did make a survey of earbuds segmented in price and filled via data entries from people here (if I'm not mistaken @jogawag was the one that made it?)
> 
> ...



I'd see what I can do 
Hope you guys can assist.


----------



## DAndrew

redkingjoe said:


> Theoretically speaking, the Poseidon cable is truly adorable!



That Aiwa looks mint


----------



## mbwilson111

Themilkman46290 said:


> I found that list, I think, I used it to get a couple of buds, I can understand why, they probably didn't like bright or dark signatures, I bought my ty hi z off of that list and am pretty happy with them, I think the list was good but if it had indicated the sound signatures it would have worked better, my problem is every time I get excited on some totl buds and get ready to order, I read a review saying they are missing this freq, or have too much of that freq, basically same list but next to the score it can have a b for bassheavy or n for neutral, v for vshaped sound, b for bright
> 
> Because I would like a pair of totl buds but I don't like very bright, need some good sub bass, so far got my sights on k's samsara and k's 500 ohm waiting for 11/11



I once saw a version of that list that did include a note about sound signature.  I am happy with what I chose from that list.




DAndrew said:


> Wait, what? Wasnt it supposed to be metal?



The EB2 is metal.


----------



## Themilkman46290

mbwilson111 said:


> I once saw a version of that list that did include a note about sound signature.  I am happy with what I chose from that list.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Any copies of said list?


----------



## golov17

DAndrew said:


> Wait, what? Wasnt it supposed to be metal?


Metal


----------



## RuFrost (Oct 2, 2018)

1) if pk and mx500 shells, oyaide plugs are allowed to be copied and quality is not affected as well as somebody's business than it is great news and then, the use of not original plugs is can justified and understood by Blox and other companies. Than nothing is broken and nobody do anything wrong. Then it is just the matter of taste to have full autentic components or not.
2) If somebody was looking at sound signatures and descriptions here is the picture. I think, it was posted earlier in this thread. Though, I remember there was another one with identification of signatures with certain earbuds' models.
P.s: agree with Cleo and stop speaking further, as everything what was needed to be said is already done. Moreover, pride's harmed rage is a non-bearable burden for some people. Push the glass - what will pour out, with that the glass is filled. Peace.


----------



## mbwilson111

Themilkman46290 said:


> Any copies of said list?



I believe it was retired and no longer meant to be shared


----------



## jogawag (Oct 2, 2018)

chinmie said:


> what category do you have in mind? price based?
> 
> i think someone did make a survey of earbuds segmented in price and filled via data entries from people here (if I'm not mistaken @jogawag was the one that made it?)
> 
> ...





Danneq said:


> 1 year ago @jogawag ceated an earbud survey. It is closed now but over 100 people replied and rated the earbuds they had heard. From that survey you could get an okay idea about some earbuds (based on people's subjective perception of them).



The Earbuds Survey system by tier (the price range) was developed and operated by @thelonius97. It was interrupted one year ago by him, because the vote for the system was becoming rare.

I only saied the opinion of the system's request specification and only asked everyone for a vote. So I do not know inside program of the system.

https://goo.gl/gt1THD (The result of 1 year ago can be seen.)


----------



## DAndrew

mbwilson111 said:


> The EB2 is metal.





golov17 said:


> Metal



Thank you!


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 2, 2018)

@Slater has given a tip in the iem threads about how to determine if a shell is metal.  Gently tap it against your tooth... plastic and metal will make different sounds.  You can learn what metal sounds like and what plastic sounds like.  Do not hurt your tooth and do not scratch the shell.  Just do it gently.


----------



## 40760

golov17 said:


> Metal



Judging from your pictures, can I say that those 2 small holes at the back of each driver are actually not functional and more of a decoration?

Just wanted to make sure before I ask you what's behind that yellow part of the insides. I have a feeling it's just a solid metal back of the inside of the shell...


----------



## theoutsider

golov17 said:


> Metal


Actually that looks like what typically sold as Yuin PK1 drivers:  horseshoe webbing, beige epoxy and violet markings.


----------



## golov17

it looks like ..


----------



## 40760

golov17 said:


> it looks like ..



Thanks! That's interesting to note. 

For a moment I was worried because the small holes on my left driver were open but the other 2 on the right was blocked up.

I thought it was going to affect the sound.


----------



## snip3r77

golov17 said:


> it looks like ..


How do you guys compare Drivers without brand lol


----------



## golov17

snip3r77 said:


> How do you guys compare Drivers without brand lol


we listen to music through them .. and you? Lol


----------



## redkingjoe

DAndrew said:


> That Aiwa looks mint



That AIWA sounds great too. I’ve got it from a very nice member. 

 It has super huge sound stage. Its extremely enjoyable for listening classical music. Ever since I’ve got it, I spent lot of time on it with classical!


----------



## redkingjoe

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> Damn, didn't know there was going to be a low impedance version of the K's Titanium Ling so never paid attention to it's discussion. Anyone know how low?
> 
> What kind of sound profile will the Titanium Ling have?
> 
> ...


Don’t worry  

Base on my observation, k’s will issue a new model each year.


----------



## seanc6441

DAndrew said:


> Wait, what? Wasnt it supposed to be metal?


I mean if they were to release a 30 usd model it'd probably be a plastic shell in the shape of the ling.


----------



## seanc6441

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> Damn, didn't know there was going to be a low impedance version of the K's Titanium Ling so never paid attention to it's discussion. Anyone know how low?
> 
> What kind of sound profile will the Titanium Ling have?
> 
> ...


If it's like my Black Ling signature it'll be Mild V (a really mature V though that's not sucked out at all). Deep full bass, clear brighter mids and treble. Musical tuning.


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> And extra nice having a 30 usd 'ling' type shell from K's. May be plastic though like the EB2.



The confusion about the EB2 started when you said this last night... that the EB2 was plastic, when in fact it is metal.


----------



## exavolt

Hello. I am new here.

A quick question: what's the buds equivalent of Tin Audio T2 in terms of signature and detail retrieval?

I've searched this thread but I haven't found the definitive answer. At some point, it's mentioned that Rose Mojito is comparable to the T2, but those are way more expensive than the T2. I've also read that PT15 is pretty bright too.


----------



## activatorfly

exavolt said:


> Hello. I am new here.
> 
> A quick question: what's the buds equivalent of Tin Audio T2 in terms of signature and detail retrieval?
> 
> I've searched this thread but I haven't found the definitive answer. At some point, it's mentioned that Rose Mojito is comparable to the T2, but those are way more expensive than the T2. I've also read that PT15 is pretty bright too.


You could try EB2 or PT25....


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> The confusion about the EB2 started when you said this last night... that the EB2 was plastic, when in fact it is metal.


Oh right, my I was thinking of the front cover of the eb2 being plastic and forgot the shell was metal (mines black so it all looks the same ^^).


----------



## silverfishla

exavolt said:


> Hello. I am new here.
> 
> A quick question: what's the buds equivalent of Tin Audio T2 in terms of signature and detail retrieval?
> 
> I've searched this thread but I haven't found the definitive answer. At some point, it's mentioned that Rose Mojito is comparable to the T2, but those are way more expensive than the T2. I've also read that PT15 is pretty bright too.


I would say MX 500.  If you like the mids, I would say Moondrop Nameless, but this one has a bit less bass.


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> Oh right, my I was thinking of the front cover of the eb2 being plastic and forgot the shell was metal (mines black so it all looks the same ^^).



I forgot the front cover is plastic ... it has been covered by a black foam since the day it arrived


----------



## audio123

My TO400s review is up on my blog & Head-Fi. Enjoy!


----------



## chinmie

exavolt said:


> Hello. I am new here.
> 
> A quick question: what's the buds equivalent of Tin Audio T2 in terms of signature and detail retrieval?
> 
> I've searched this thread but I haven't found the definitive answer. At some point, it's mentioned that Rose Mojito is comparable to the T2, but those are way more expensive than the T2. I've also read that PT15 is pretty bright too.



Liebesleid 
better detail retrieval, similar signature


----------



## Ziggomatic

I'm toying with the idea of trying a different cable with my TO400s - does anyone have a recommendation? I'm looking for something that works well ergonomically (and improves the sonics, obviously), but it's hard to tell from the photos on AE whether something will work. (For example, many options look like they have heat shrinking near the connectors for over-ear use, but it's hard to tell). 

Thanks in advance!


----------



## csglinux

Danneq said:


> ClieOS used to have a great list in the first post of this thread but removed it since people complained to him if they bought a pair of earbuds that he placed high and didn't like it. That's annoying and just stupid so you cannot blame ClieOS for removing the list.
> 
> 1 year ago @jogawag ceated an earbud survey. It is closed now but over 100 people replied and rated the earbuds they had heard. From that survey you could get an okay idea about some earbuds (based on people's subjective perception of them).
> 
> Then there are head fiers who make their own lists on their profile pages. I've got a top 10 (well, top 8) of my favorite earbuds that I currently own. I have not yet included Blox TM9 but it will end up high in the list.


Hi @Danneq, I'm a total noob at earbuds, so was hoping to pick your brains on a few things... 

I recently sold my Utopias, because I realized I was using my EMX500 buds way more often - and enjoying the experience more. I'm sure most of you know what it's like when you sell a really good headphone and then desperately regret it afterwards.  Well, I have no regrets about parting with my Utopias  I couldn't learn to live with the 5.5 kHz spike and I honestly hear as much detail from my EMX500. If I want super-resolving headphones, I still have my KSE1500 (to my ears, these were always superior to the Utopias), but they're not nearly as portable or as convenient as earbuds.  @Danneq - I noticed the EMX500 weren't on your top ten list, nor were they in your "once owned" list. Have you heard them? If so, how do you rank them? I know we all hear things differently, but I think headfiers do tend to reach a broad consensus on many products. The EMX500 seem to be highly rated on that survey you linked to. BTW, what does the "Tier" mean? Is that just price?

FWIW, I also own the Shozy BK Stardust and I probably favor them over the EMX500, but only by a small margin. The EMX500 has better reach in the sub-bass (which always seems to be difficult for earbuds) but also a little bit of a peak around 8 kHz, so it's swings and roundabouts:



 

I was curious about purchasing items like the Cypherus products and the Blox TM9. Cypherus' website has a shopping cart, but no way of adding items to it. Also, there are no prices listed. I pulled the trigger on a TM9 (I think?!), but had no response after clicking "buy" in the PayPal window. No acknowledgement. No email confirmation. No shipping details  What's the experience of others who've purchased Blox products? Also, what's the secret password you need to purchase anything from Cypherus?


----------



## Danneq

csglinux said:


> Hi @Danneq, I'm a total noob at earbuds, so was hoping to pick your brains on a few things...
> 
> I recently sold my Utopias, because I realized I was using my EMX500 buds way more often - and enjoying the experience more. I'm sure most of you know what it's like when you sell a really good headphone and then desperately regret it afterwards.  Well, I have no regrets about parting with my Utopias  I couldn't learn to live with the 5.5 kHz spike and I honestly hear as much detail from my EMX500. If I want super-resolving headphones, I still have my KSE1500 (to my ears, these were always superior to the Utopias), but they're not nearly as portable or as convenient as earbuds.  @Danneq - I noticed the EMX500 weren't on your top ten list, nor were they in your "once owned" list. Have you heard them? If so, how do you rank them? I know we all hear things differently, but I think headfiers do tend to reach a broad consensus on many products. The EMX500 seem to be highly rated on that survey you linked to. BTW, what does the "Tier" mean? Is that just price?
> 
> ...




Sorry, I've never heard EMX500. I read a lot of good things about them but there was so many other buds to check out that I skipped them. Also a while ago I decided to mainly go for 100$+ TOTL earbuds and buy the occational ~$5 budget earbud, so EMX500 slipped through the net.

The earbuds in the earbud survey are organized according to price so you are correct in your assumption.

Cypherus is a small one man company and Blox is tiny as well. It is best to send an e-mail to Cypherus (you can find the address on the homepage) and then take it from there. Herry of Cypherus is very friendly and professional. The Blox homepage wasn't updated for years, it has looked the same since around 2012 when I bought TM7 from there, but recently they did add TM9. You can just send an e-mail to Blox and ask about your order. When I bought my pair of TM9 the homepage wasn't updated so I bought them over e-mail. I said that I wanted a single ended pair and then they sent me an invoice over Paypal. After that it took a week or so before they shipped it.
E-mail is the best way of communication with these tiny earbud makers.


----------



## cqtek

I received the EB2 today and ... the review will come out alone.

In principle the bass area is as I feared, very HiFi grade, is not noted for its presence, that is, good definition, low somewhat dry, not much depth, the right touch. But the middle area is the best I've heard in earbuds that I own, it's ahead of almost all of them. The voices present but never muddy, something that does happen in PK2 shell earbuds. The highs are in a way that I did not expect. Lately the ChiFi is flooded with cutting sharp, hard, exaggerated, unnatural, authentic blades in search of nonexistent detail ... Well, the highs are not like that. It had been a while since I had enjoyed them without having to suffer, without having to file them, without having to give up. With them the detail, the separation, the recreation of the scene shines.

Smell like TOTL spirit.


----------



## csglinux

Danneq said:


> Sorry, I've never heard EMX500. I read a lot of good things about them but there was so many other buds to check out that I skipped them. Also a while ago I decided to mainly go for 100$+ TOTL earbuds and buy the occational ~$5 budget earbud, so EMX500 slipped through the net.


Thanks for the reply, @Danneq! I'll try emails to Cypherus and Blox...

I totally understand you not wanting to waste your time with inferior headphones. I agree - life's too short. But... there's this:

https://www.innerfidelity.com/conte...headphone-frequency-response-and-retail-price

For sure, EMX500 is going to fail any sighted A/B test because of the price-placebo effect, but I think it's a gem - and not only in terms of value-for-money. I suspect a lot of these buds (much like IEMs) have drivers from a common OEM, so it probably boils down to a clever (or a lucky?) tuning. Also, I find the type of foam (none/full/donut, thickness, porosity, etc.) plays a big role in the sound - it's definitely worth experimenting with. I'd be interested to hear any others comments from past or current EXM500 owners. What beats them? And why?


----------



## Danneq (Oct 2, 2018)

csglinux said:


> Thanks for the reply, @Danneq! I'll try emails to Cypherus and Blox...
> 
> I totally understand you not wanting to waste your time with inferior headphones. I agree - life's too short. But... there's this:
> 
> ...



I would have bought EMX500 but in the last few years there have been so many new earbuds released that I gsve up and decided to limit myself to certain price categories. I think that the $5 Vido is pretty amazing for the price and apparently it becomes even better if you change to a better quality cable. But even with the original cable Vido is pretty damn good.

The price/performance ratio is much higher when it comes to the $5 Vido and $15(?) EMX500 than with the $279 Blox TM9 and $249 ZoomFred. But when you listen carefully there is a difference where bass is better textured, instrument positioning and layering is better etc.
In the earbud world the prices are more compressed than in the full size headphone or IEM world, so you can buy 4-5 totl earbuds for the price of a TOTL headphone or IEM. Even if prices on earbuds are slowly going up as well.

If you want great performance for a low price earbuds is the place to be today. But still TOTL earbuds are worth the price, at least in most cases.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

csglinux said:


> Hi @Danneq, I'm a total noob at earbuds, so was hoping to pick your brains on a few things...
> 
> I recently sold my Utopias, because I realized I was using my EMX500 buds way more often - and enjoying the experience more. I'm sure most of you know what it's like when you sell a really good headphone and then desperately regret it afterwards.  Well, I have no regrets about parting with my Utopias  I couldn't learn to live with the 5.5 kHz spike and I honestly hear as much detail from my EMX500. If I want super-resolving headphones, I still have my KSE1500 (to my ears, these were always superior to the Utopias), but they're not nearly as portable or as convenient as earbuds.  @Danneq - I noticed the EMX500 weren't on your top ten list, nor were they in your "once owned" list. Have you heard them? If so, how do you rank them? I know we all hear things differently, but I think headfiers do tend to reach a broad consensus on many products. The EMX500 seem to be highly rated on that survey you linked to. BTW, what does the "Tier" mean? Is that just price?
> 
> ...


EMX500 is a special bud. A must have for bassheads and fans of bass heavy genres. I was not a fan of earbuds at all, but decided to buy a couple VE monk +'s for $7 a piece. Liked them a lot more then the OG ipod buds I had received with my ipod 5.5 video, and liked them better then the new Apple earpods. I just needed more bass. Was told to get EMX500. Got some for $9 off AE. Been in love ever since. Wear them every single day while walking the dogs, and love them for Netflix/youtube on my laptop. Since I recently bought EBX, there is no need in my life anymore for Monk+. Will just end up recabling them, and messing around with tuning them differently/screwing them up.


----------



## tim0chan

RuFrost said:


> 1) Take a look at my post earlier these days. I'm selling all my earbuds which does not use original parts, at least of those I'm informed that they use fake parts.
> 2) I repeat, I even did not know that fake parts in such sphere exist. So when I was informed by the picture posted earlier and you tell me that also shells are fake I made my decision.
> Being loyal to God and sleep with pure hearts are much more important than pleasure of any kind and even incomparable for trading. Lie and sin are poison and even small percent of it destroys the life, like a drop of poison makes the whole glass of water useless, undrinkable. So there is no such thing as low morality and high morality - it is ancient pagan terms which was created in order to have at least some fairness and truth in society. After incarnation and revelation it is sort of useless, as it is not about some theoretical "being right", but life of relationship between the Creator and his Image. This worldview totally changes life's texture, being and reasoning.
> 3) One way of staying with some lovely earbuds is buying original parts and redoing them in such way. Yes, it is very problematic, but being good and fighting evil (starting from yourself) is the goal of life and the toughest thing, but finally worth it as the future of eternity is defining.
> P.s: too bad the West split from Orthodoxy in 1054 and become Catholic, than protestant and now atheistic (turned from hypothetical to aggressive, hateful) at all. They perverted theology and way of life consequently, so now any mention of Christianity or better to say such reasoning leads to blaspheme, mocking and unreasonable fooling. I did not want to bring all this at all, just offering point of view. Everybody choose their own path - evil or good and following consequences.


By selling these stolen earbuds, you stand to gain from the sins of others, why not chuck them all in a fire to make sure no one else can enjoy this sin?


----------



## exavolt

activatorfly said:


> You could try EB2 or PT25....



Thanks. From ClieOS' impression, it seems that PT25 is warmer and smoother than PT15 (not sure how they compare to T2). As for EB2, I am thinking about getting its older brother (EBX) but it seems that EB2 has better price-quality ratio for starting out.



silverfishla said:


> I would say MX 500.  If you like the mids, I would say Moondrop Nameless, but this one has a bit less bass.



I'll be honest that I don't want to have less bass than that of T2 (but I am aware that buds are by design could not produce the same bass level as IEMs).



chinmie said:


> Liebesleid
> better detail retrieval, similar signature



Nah, _masbro_, way too expensive for the budget (probably you can lend me yours first  ). How about Willsounds'? Is there anything like T2?


----------



## snip3r77

cqtek said:


> I received the EB2 today and ... the review will come out alone.
> 
> In principle the bass area is as I feared, very HiFi grade, is not noted for its presence, that is, good definition, low somewhat dry, not much depth, the right touch. But the middle area is the best I've heard in earbuds that I own, it's ahead of almost all of them. The voices present but never muddy, something that does happen in PK2 shell earbuds. The highs are in a way that I did not expect. Lately the ChiFi is flooded with cutting sharp, hard, exaggerated, unnatural, authentic blades in search of nonexistent detail ... Well, the highs are not like that. It had been a while since I had enjoyed them without having to suffer, without having to file them, without having to give up. With them the detail, the separation, the recreation of the scene shines.
> 
> Smell like TOTL spirit.


Is the bass similar to Qian 69 ?


----------



## csglinux (Oct 2, 2018)

BadReligionPunk said:


> EMX500 is a special bud. A must have for bassheads and fans of bass heavy genres. I was not a fan of earbuds at all, but decided to buy a couple VE monk +'s for $7 a piece. Liked them a lot more then the OG ipod buds I had received with my ipod 5.5 video, and liked them better then the new Apple earpods. I just needed more bass. Was told to get EMX500. Got some for $9 off AE. Been in love ever since. Wear them every single day while walking the dogs, and love them for Netflix/youtube on my laptop. Since I recently bought EBX, there is no need in my life anymore for Monk+. Will just end up recabling them, and messing around with tuning them differently/screwing them up.


Did you mean to say EBX, not EMX? If not, can you link me to the EBX buds you like?

P.S. I'm guessing you might be talking about the NiceHCK EBX? How do they compare with the EBX500?


----------



## snip3r77

exavolt said:


> Thanks. From ClieOS' impression, it seems that PT25 is warmer and smoother than PT15 (not sure how they compare to T2). As for EB2, I am thinking about getting its older brother (EBX) but it seems that EB2 has better price-quality ratio for starting out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would think willsounds mk3 , more bass mk1 or 2


----------



## toear (Oct 3, 2018)

I got mine yesterday... I will agree with a lot of what cqtek mentioned. Unfortunately for me much of the music I listen to and my preference of presentation requires bass for me to be happy. When mastering one trick I learned was to reduce the sound to a very low volume. If the track was 'balanced'  it had presence across the whole frequency range, even at such low volumes. I am finding the inverse with this for some earphones. They seem somewhat compressed at certain frequency ranges ...

Gotta run... Will edit later... 

**edit**

At first I was a little underwhelmed by lack of bass but after more burning in overnight I think the bass is filling in more. Will continue to let it burn in, then re review. 

So far, the mids and highs have definitely settled down... And they are very clear... Nice!! 

... C'mon bass!!!  



cqtek said:


> I received the EB2 today and ... the review will come out alone.
> 
> In principle the bass area is as I feared, very HiFi grade, is not noted for its presence, that is, good definition, low somewhat dry, not much depth, the right touch. But the middle area is the best I've heard in earbuds that I own, it's ahead of almost all of them. The voices present but never muddy, something that does happen in PK2 shell earbuds. The highs are in a way that I did not expect. Lately the ChiFi is flooded with cutting sharp, hard, exaggerated, unnatural, authentic blades in search of nonexistent detail ... Well, the highs are not like that. It had been a while since I had enjoyed them without having to suffer, without having to file them, without having to give up. With them the detail, the separation, the recreation of the scene shines.
> 
> Smell like TOTL spirit.


----------



## csglinux

tim0chan said:


> By selling these stolen earbuds, you stand to gain from the sins of others, why not chuck them all in a fire to make sure no one else can enjoy this sin?


Good point. Where I live it's actually illegal to knowingly send counterfeit goods through the mail. So selling them (and profiting from that sale) would be a definite no no.


----------



## csglinux

Danneq said:


> I would have bought EMX500 but in the last few years there have been so many new earbuds released that I gsve up and decided to limit myself to certain price categories. I think that the $5 Vido is pretty amazing for the price and apparently it becomes even better if you change to a better quality cable. But even with the original cable Vido is pretty damn good.
> 
> The price/performance ratio is much higher when it comes to the $5 Vido and $15(?) EMX500 than with the $279 Blox TM9 and $249 ZoomFred. But when you listen carefully there is a difference where bass is better textured, instrument positioning and layering is better etc.
> In the earbud world the prices are more compressed than in the full size headphone or IEM world, so you can buy 4-5 totl earbuds for the price of a TOTL headphone or IEM. Even if prices on earbuds are slowly going up as well.
> ...


Thanks again for your feedback. Thanks also to @ClieOS for starting this awesome thread. It's obvious there's been an awful lot of love and hard work gone into it.


----------



## chinmie (Oct 2, 2018)

exavolt said:


> Nah, _masbro_, way too expensive for the budget (probably you can lend me yours first  ). How about Willsounds'? Is there anything like T2?



too bad we live in a different city, om, hehehe.. or else we can have a mini-meet. the closest to T2 in the lower price range in my experience is the Edifier H185. both have great detailed treble (that a bit hot to my ears) and clear forward mids, with enough bass. i use my T2 with eartips modification to lower the treble volume, and i also use double foams on the H185 for the same reason

Willsound PK16 would be the most similar sounding to T2. the PK16 is more similar to the Ety ER4S in signature. among the MKs, the MK3 is more similar, but i would still pick the H185 more than both of them


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 2, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> The confusion about the EB2 started when you said this last night... that the EB2 was plastic, when in fact it is metal.





csglinux said:


> Thanks for the reply, @Danneq! I'll try emails to Cypherus and Blox...
> 
> I totally understand you not wanting to waste your time with inferior headphones. I agree - life's too short. But... there's this:
> 
> ...


Emx500 is awesome but there can be quality discrepancy between units. That is to say some may be better/worse/different than others (people seem to love the clear shell SPC cable version). If you get a pair with deep bass and the right treble they are wonderful slight U shaped buds (which is actually more neutral than many earbuds because the bass doesn't fall off a cliff and it has good treble presence.

I bought a few pairs of emx500 drivers to test in the metal shells, I'll see how they perform there.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

csglinux said:


> Did you mean to say EBX, not EMX? If not, can you link me to the EBX buds you like?
> 
> P.S. I'm guessing you might be talking about the NiceHCK EBX? How do they compare with the EBX500?



Wow! I suppose I started rambling and didn't connect points. LOL Sorry. Off work and brain is mush. 

Yea EMX500 is basshead earbud, with good stage. Very special IMO. I love boosted bass in hip hop, reggae, dancehall, ska, punk, rock and other slower more simplistic genres. That's a large majority of the music I listen too, however I feel that more complex and fast genres(death metal, black metal, classical, orchestral) tend to be too sludgy and muddy for me too enjoy with it. This is where NICEHCK EBX comes in to play. Not only does it handle fast and complex stuff with ease, while still retaining energy and musicality(is that a thing?) but its ridiculously awesome at female vocals. Jpop, Jrock, The Carpenters( Karen is my favorite female vocalist ever) vocal trance and bluegrass/country are all awesome to listen to with EBX. 

Thus no need for VE Monk+ anymore. Monk+ was my go to for genres that boosted bass interfered with the frequency too much.


----------



## rkw

toear said:


> I got mine yesterday... I will agree with a lot of what cqtek mentioned. Unfortunately for me much of the music I listen to and my preference of presentation requires bass for me to be happy.


Try blocking the rear port:


seanc6441 said:


> EB2 bass can easily be improved by blocking1/4 -1/3 or the back port on each side with tape. The venting is really open on this earbud in default form and closing it slightly tightens the bass response and to my ears the low mids gain the weight it was lacking.
> 
> 
> Try it out and see what you think. I'd start with only blocking a tiny amount, maybe block the side to the back of the ear only and 1/3 of it. It will tame the mid bass slightly so the bass will tighten but it will also increase the upper mids/lower treble slightly.


----------



## B9Scrambler

A quick look at the Linsoul BLD:

Head-fi / The Contraptionist


  ​


----------



## silverfishla

BadReligionPunk said:


> Wow! I suppose I started rambling and didn't connect points. LOL Sorry. Off work and brain is mush.
> 
> Yea EMX500 is basshead earbud, with good stage. Very special IMO. I love boosted bass in hip hop, reggae, dancehall, ska, punk, rock and other slower more simplistic genres. That's a large majority of the music I listen too, however I feel that more complex and fast genres(death metal, black metal, classical, orchestral) tend to be too sludgy and muddy for me too enjoy with it. This is where NICEHCK EBX comes in to play. Not only does it handle fast and complex stuff with ease, while still retaining energy and musicality(is that a thing?) but its ridiculously awesome at female vocals. Jpop, Jrock, The Carpenters( Karen is my favorite female vocalist ever) vocal trance and bluegrass/country are all awesome to listen to with EBX.
> 
> Thus no need for VE Monk+ anymore. Monk+ was my go to for genres that boosted bass interfered with the frequency too much.



I love a lot of music too....I judge every piece of audio gear by how good it makes Karen’s voice sound.  If a piece of gear can get her voice right, it is a green light.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 2, 2018)

Anybody know the difference between EMX500*S* vs EMX500?


----------



## exavolt

chinmie said:


> the closest to T2 in the lower price range in my experience is the Edifier H185. both have great detailed treble (that a bit hot to my ears) and clear forward mids, with enough bass.


They are hot but not prone to sibilance? I can't stand sibilant units as they distract the enjoyment.

I see that you like Einsear T2 (the other good T2) too; any buds like those? Sometimes I pick Einsear's if I want warm-bright mood.


----------



## waynes world (Oct 3, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> A quick look at the Linsoul BLD:
> 
> Head-fi / The Contraptionist
> 
> ​



I read the review, and it's pretty much on mark with how I feel about the Fengru DIY PK1 2.5mm 150ohms which I got on sale for $22, I feel pretty quite confident that they are the same as the BLD's. Even though they don't fit my preferences exactly (I prefer slightly more v-shaped signatures), if I EQ up the bass a bit, I quite enjoy them. Definitely worth the price for neutralish buds!


----------



## jogawag (Oct 3, 2018)

Blueshound24 said:


> Anybody know the difference between EMX500*S* vs EMX500?



I will quote the post of @SweettEars.


SweetEars said:


> just got my  EMX 500S yesterday.I also have EMX 500 first version.. i guess they haven't burned in yet.. how many hours do u recommend and the method. burning source used?
> 
> here  are the difference i noticed with the EMX500 and 500s
> 
> ...


----------



## chinmie

exavolt said:


> They are hot but not prone to sibilance? I can't stand sibilant units as they distract the enjoyment.
> 
> I see that you like Einsear T2 (the other good T2) too; any buds like those? Sometimes I pick Einsear's if I want warm-bright mood.



the Willsound MK1 is similar and overall better sounding than the Einsear. for me personally, the Willsound is my favorite Indonesian earbuds maker, and i like most of his work/tuning.


----------



## doggiemom

Dubusal said:


> It’s mine haha


Hey, I am Korean, may I borrow? I live in the US though.  


Themilkman46290 said:


> This place is getting weird, got angry Christian extremist, upper middle class people are furious about a non oyaide plugs, and some weird delusion that big manufacturers don't steal, I guess you guys don't understand how the business world really works, me


This has been odd.  I missed the religious stuff, or took it as tongue in cheek.



chinmie said:


> what category do you have in mind? price based?
> i think it would be great if this survey is made continuously open and be put on the first page of this thread so anyone can contribute and use it


Personally, I’d like to see everyone’s top 10lists with descriptions.  There are people here that I think I can count on for recommendations based on similar tastes, so I’d like to know more about their gear.


Themilkman46290 said:


> How are the k's samsara compared to blurs? And do the blurs have any high impedance models


I have one pair of Blurs.  On the plus, they have a unique tuning with good instrument placement, and the maker is really enthusiastic and will chat with you.  Unfortunately , I think the K’s Samsara better suit my taste.  The 500 and 600 Ohm are good too, just different.  (I wrote a shoot out a week or so ago).


csglinux said:


> Hi @Danneq,
> 
> I recently sold my Utopias, because I realized I was using my EMX500 buds way more often - and enjoying the experience more. I'm sure most of you know what it's like when you sell a really good headphone and then desperately regret it afterwards.  Well, I have no regrets about parting with my Utopias
> I was curious about purchasing items like the Cypherus products and the Blox TM9. Cypherus' website has a shopping cart, but no way of adding items to it. Also, there are no prices listed. I pulled the trigger on a TM9 (I think?!), but had no response after clicking "buy" in the PayPal window. No acknowledgement. No email confirmation. No shipping details  What's the experience of others who've purchased Blox products? Also, what's the secret password you need to purchase anything from Cypherus?


First of all, how could you part with the Utopia?  Nobody’s perfect, but they are close.  
If you liked the Utopia, check out Cypherus’ CampFred2.  I love them and we’re listening to them today.   Zoomfred is awesome too.  Black is for home use because of the rigidity of the cable.


----------



## Dubusal (Oct 3, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> Hey, I am Korean, may I borrow? I live in the US though



If you come to Korea, you can listen to my receivers.

I've packed up a lot of receivers and now have blueeverblue 328r, ebx, liebeslide, SWD2 +, ZF, etc. and modified versions of liebeslide and red dragon utopia will be shipping soon.

Inear is using only simgot en700 pro.


----------



## chaiyuta

@Dubusal : Did you try the new UCOTECH flagship earbuds yet? Personally I like Korean earphone brands e.g. Dynamic Motion, etc.


----------



## ClieOS

Talks about Ucotech - they said they were going to release the new flagship in September. That has come and gone.


----------



## subwoof3r

Hey everybody!

My *Blox TM9* full review is finally finalized !
You can read it *HERE*

Hope you'll enjoy 
Cheers'


----------



## B9Scrambler

waynes world said:


> I read the review, and it's pretty much on mark with how I feel about the Fengru DIY PK1 2.5mm 150ohms which I got on sale for $22, I feel pretty quite confident that they are the same as the BLD's. Even though they don't fit my preferences exactly (I prefer slightly more v-shaped signatures), if I EQ up the bass a bit, I quite enjoy them. Definitely worth the price for neutralish buds!



It certainly looks pretty much identical. For 22 bucks that's a great buy  BLD is priced fairly, but I wouldn't call it a steal of a deal or anything.


----------



## cocolinho

Any recommendation for a bud with *deep *soundstage for less than USD200? I feel this is the most difficult thing to reproduce earbuds in general.
Thank you


----------



## activatorfly

cocolinho said:


> Any recommendation for a bud with *deep *soundstage for less than USD200? I feel this is the most difficult thing to reproduce earbuds in general.
> Thank you


Blox TM9 apparently has the deepest soundstage.....but it costs $280.


----------



## cqtek

snip3r77 said:


> Is the bass similar to Qian 69 ?



I have not been able to compare them yet. I need time. But I will do a review that I will publish here. I'm sure I'll compare them then.


----------



## DAndrew (Oct 3, 2018)

So I finally received my EB2, in silver 

First impressions are good, it reminds me a bit of the TO400s

Edit: Very nice cable tbh, much better than lets say the TO400s cable

Edit2: They really need a darker source


----------



## DUBSAL_SP

chaiyuta said:


> @Dubusal : Did you try the new UCOTECH flagship earbuds yet? Personally I like Korean earphone brands e.g. Dynamic Motion, etc.



I had the opportunity to hear a test version of UcoTech in Korea. I did not hear it, and the things that my friends listened to and told me were hardly impressed.


----------



## chinmie

DAndrew said:


> So I finally received my EB2, in silver
> 
> First impressions are good, it reminds me a bit of the TO400s
> 
> ...



which one you like better between the two?


----------



## DAndrew

chinmie said:


> which one you like better between the two?



It's hard to tell , I need to listen to it more. The cable I most definitely like the one from the EB2


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 3, 2018)

DAndrew said:


> So I finally received my EB2, in silver
> 
> First impressions are good, it reminds me a bit of the TO400s
> 
> ...


I found them brighter in the mids but the 400s had a more peaked upper treble so it sparkled where the eb2 just smoothed out. I preferred the 400s treble slightly but i prefer the upper mids of the eb2. Both are lacking in the bass but it different ways, one has no emphasis or much punch and the other is a little undefined but has some punch (eb2).

The cable is nicer I agree.


----------



## golov17

DUBSAL_SP said:


> I had the opportunity to hear a test version of UcoTech in Korea. I did not hear it, and the things that my friends listened to and told me were hardly impressed.


Damn ((


----------



## bavinck

cocolinho said:


> Any recommendation for a bud with *deep *soundstage for less than USD200? I feel this is the most difficult thing to reproduce earbuds in general.
> Thank you


Blur


----------



## bavinck

activatorfly said:


> Blox TM9 apparently has the deepest soundstage.....but it costs $280.


I think my blur h/H has a deeper stage, but the TM9 is wider.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Hello folks!

People are talking about creating like a ranking system for the earbuds. I don't know if everybody knows this thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...nd-impressions-sharing-reference-list.805930/

This thread was my first hit in headfi forum. It helped me a lot, but, maybe we can find some tool that is more easy to update. I will take a look around to see if we can find something really nice.


----------



## csglinux

subwoof3r said:


> Hey everybody!
> 
> My *Blox TM9* full review is finally finalized !
> You can read it *HERE*
> ...


Nice review @subwoof3r - especially with English not being your first language. I agree about the "try before you buy" thing. (I always make the same recommendation.) But how to do that?!? I'd estimate that even at the largest RMAF/CanJam events, we get only a tiny percentage of the worlds headphones to listen to. And I don't think I've ever even noticed a single pair earbuds on exhibit at these events.

I decided against "demo-ing" the Red Dragons. I think if I need to have a non-portable sort of cable to get full-sized can sound, I can just use my non-portable HD800S. They give full-sized can sound and they're awesome  I hope I have a pair of TM9s on the way, but I can't say for sure, as Blox's website tells you nothing and they won't answer my emails


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 3, 2018)

csglinux said:


> Nice review @subwoof3r - especially with English not being your first language. I agree about the "try before you buy" thing. (I always make the same recommendation.) But how to do that?!? I'd estimate that even at the largest RMAF/CanJam events, we get only a tiny percentage of the worlds headphones to listen to. And I don't think I've ever even noticed a single pair earbuds on exhibit at these events.
> 
> I decided against "demo-ing" the Red Dragons. I think if I need to have a non-portable sort of cable to get full-sized can sound, I can just use my non-portable HD800S. They give full-sized can sound and they're awesome  I hope I have a pair of TM9s on the way, but I can't say for sure, as Blox's website tells you nothing and they won't answer my emails


Thing is it's hard to deny that earbuds are much more comfortable for extended listening than headphones. Basically the closest you can get to speakers for keeping you listening through high comfort and low weight. So there is a valid reason to buy say a red dragon over a HD800 if you think the extra comfort is worth it against the short comings of a much smaller driver.

Thinking about it now and going forward, if it's not something ridiculously good like a stax setup or focal utopia, I may never really spend any significant money on headphones  because earbuds are getting such a high performance level and have that immersive experience of forgetting they are in your ears (the comfortable ones anyway).


----------



## csglinux

seanc6441 said:


> Thing is it's hard to deny that earbuds are much more comfortable for extended listening than headphones. Basically the closest you can get to speakers for keeping you listening through high comfort and low weight. So there is a valid reason to buy say a red dragon over a HD800 if you think the extra comfort is worth it against the short comings of a much smaller driver.



Dang. Yes, you're right. I may yet cave and "demo" the Red Dragon. One day... 



seanc6441 said:


> Thinking about it now and going forward, if it's not something ridiculously good like a stax setup or focal utopia, I may never really spend any significant money on headphones  because earbuds are getting such a high performance level and have that immersive experience of forgetting they are in your ears (the comfortable ones anyway).



BTW, I'm an ex-Utopia owner. To my ears, Utopias are good, but not ridiculously good. They're not as transparent as the KSE1500s or the Xelentos. And they're nowhere near as comfy as earbuds - Utopias are quite heavy. Besides, no $4000 headphone should have such a significant bump at 5.5 kHz (or such a trough at 9 kHz). At that price point, that's unforgivable. I'd bet any money we're at some point going to see a Utopia 2 with a Helmholtz damper, similar to what went into the HD800S.

I'd not touched earbuds since I was a young, silly, naive Apple fanboy. My buddy @moedawg140 taught me the ways of the VE Monk Buds and I was really amazed. I've since been even more amazed by the ToneKing T0200 (thanks @HungryPanda !), EMX500 and Shozy BK. I totally agree - some of these buds are already rivalling the sound of some of the best IEMs and full-sized cans. The only downside - I bet I can guess which way the prices for top-end buds are going to go. Just wait until an unreasonable company like 64Audio releases their ultimate flagship earbud


----------



## vladstef (Oct 4, 2018)

I've had EB2 for a couple of days now... I am kinda blown away. They do everything that I'd want a pair of earbuds to do - a flawless vocal and instrument reproduction.

EB2 is trully a step up from everything that I've heard in their segment, I'd love to see them become the new EMX500 (which I believe was the most popular budget bud so far).


----------



## waynes world

vladstef said:


> I've had EB2 for a couple of days now... I am kinda blown away. They do everything that I'd want a pair of earbuds to do - a flawless vocal and instrument reproduction.
> 
> EB2 is trully a step up from everything that I've heard in their segment, I*'d love to see them become the new EMX500* (which I belive was the most popular budget bud so far).



I kinda feel the same way about the Datura X's. Have you tried them? I'm on the fence about getting the EB2's since I'm enjoying the X's so much.


----------



## silverfishla

I’m kind of on the fence about the EB2.  I like them, but they slant on the treble side a bit much in the vocal range.  They are very clear sounding (which is good) but “girly” voices can sound a bit too piercing (Patty Griffin, Bon Iver, Tiny Tim....jk) I think the Datura X is more my thing too.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 3, 2018)

silverfishla said:


> I’m kind of on the fence about the EB2.  I like them, but they slant on the treble side a bit much in the vocal range.  They are very clear sounding (which is good) but “girly” voices can sound a bit too piercing (Patty Griffin, Bon Iver, Tiny Tim....jk) I think the Datura X is more my thing too.


I agree, but for the reason that they are bright in the mids but don't carry it too far into the treble. If I'm gonna listen to a bright earbud I want it to push detail at me all the way up to the upper treble. Eb2 is a very polite brightness, so it's smooth but lacks a full body. Bass is uncharacteristically loose for this kind if sig and thin foams dont really help to tighten it.

It's really good at many aspects (that wide soundstage and separation!) but after a few days 9f listening I've put them down for other earbuds that are more my taste.

I will try a few more foam mods on em before i come to any final conclusions though.


----------



## RodRevenge

My MK3 are not even here yet and im now considering the eb2, why you do this to me guys?.


----------



## activatorfly

RodRevenge said:


> My MK3 are not even here yet and im now considering the eb2, why you do this to me guys?.


Because they live up to the hype!


----------



## jant71

Had the PT25 for a couple of days. Pretty much all what ClieOS said. Comfy, good sound. Wasn't sure they were metal so they are more robustly built than I thought they would be. Problem is they are smaller than I thought they would be. I have, from ear infections as a youth more room on my right side than the left so hard to work with bit too small stuff as doubling foams or just one side or whatever to get the the same seal in both ears is a bit of a chore. So, if anyone is interested shoot me a PM. I will post them in my FS thread soon enough but give the heads up here first. Would trade for a Yincrow RW-9.


----------



## HungryPanda

If I didn't have the NiceHCK EBX and the Datura-X I think I would be all over the EB2 in a heartbeat


----------



## chinmie

csglinux said:


> I think if I need to have a non-portable sort of cable to get full-sized can sound, I can just use my non-portable HD800S



yup. as headphone-like an earbud can be, it's hard to beat the physical size and capabilities of a headphone, especially open backs, which i think are more in direct/similar sound presentation to the earbuds family. add thick cables, the earbud would loose the primary advantage they have over headphones: portability. 



waynes world said:


> I kinda feel the same way about the Datura X's



i also think that the Datura should be the new EMX500; they share similar signature with a more polished sound and overall presentation. I've just googled and found out the Datura is a poisonous flower called "the devil's trumpet"... add an X on the name... can't get any metal than that 



HungryPanda said:


> If I didn't have the NiceHCK EBX and the Datura-X I think I would be all over the EB2 in a heartbeat



replace EBX with Liebesleid, and we have the same situation


----------



## silverfishla

HungryPanda said:


> If I didn't have the NiceHCK EBX and the Datura-X I think I would be all over the EB2 in a heartbeat


It's okay.  No need for the EB2 if you've got the EBX.  They have a similar clarity, but the EBX is more well rounded, fuller sounding, and overall better.  You'll be fine without that one.


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> I kinda feel the same way about the Datura X's. Have you tried them? I'm on the fence about getting the EB2's since I'm enjoying the X's so much.



One does not make the other redundant.  



RodRevenge said:


> My MK3 are not even here yet and im now considering the eb2, why you do this to me guys?.



Sounds normal to me.



HungryPanda said:


> If I didn't have the NiceHCK EBX and the Datura-X I think I would be all over the EB2 in a heartbeat



Maybe you know someone who would lend you hers for a short listen.  Meanwhile I bet you have more than the EBX and the Datura X to listen with.


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> One does not make the other redundant.



Have you ever heard the term "enabler"?


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Have you ever heard the term "enabler"?



maybe...


----------



## ClieOS

jant71 said:


> Had the PT25 for a couple of days. Pretty much all what ClieOS said. Comfy, good sound. Wasn't sure they were metal so they are more robustly built than I thought they would be. Problem is they are smaller than I thought they would be. I have, from ear infections as a youth more room on my right side than the left so hard to work with bit too small stuff as doubling foams or just one side or whatever to get the the same seal in both ears is a bit of a chore. So, if anyone is interested shoot me a PM. I will post them in my FS thread soon enough but give the heads up here first. Would trade for a Yincrow RW-9.



Before you trade it away, try this: swap the left and right earpieces on cable, then wear them over-the-ear. Kind of give it a more analytical sound. Someone on erji.net taught me this.


----------



## AxelCloris

We've completed some moderation in the thread because some of the discussion did not meet out Posting Guidelines. Let's please keep the thread on the right track. Thanks everyone.


----------



## toear (Oct 3, 2018)

So.... I feel like I'm a candy store... but with only a dollar at a time... 

My eb2s came in at the end of last week. Today I got both my Faael Datura X and my looooong awaited K's 300 Samsara!!!!!!!

What to listen to first/next/last ...?!? Lol!

With the HE150 Pro as my most familiar and reference point...

Eb2 - more mid high focused, better detailed /analytical (?), a touch light on the bass side for accurate representation of some of the music I listen to. Great buds but a touch light light on the low end (and I mean a touch... Not like some mid high focused buds I have heard (that about the heck out of me)). Also depth is not quite as deep perhaps because of the slightly forward mid and highs. Nice wide soundstage. Airy. .... As a quick comparison to my modded PT15 - the Pt15 is not quite as clear, but makes up the low-end making them slightly more versatile for different genres....

Datura X - for my preferences the hype is real! Bass and sound signature is similar to the HE150 Pro but mid and highs are more pronounced. Smooth. Whereas the HE150 Pro is slightly L-shaped, the Datura X is more neutral. Soundstage is nice and wide and holographic but depth goes to to the HE150 Pro. (I'm listening to these as I write this... These are awesome !! The separation and layering is fantastic! I'm going to have to do more comparisons but I think these just replaced my HE150 Pros...?! )

K's 300 Samsara - very similar to full can goodness (HD650 as a reference). As much as I want them to be the same the HD650 is still on a different level I think. These things do sound BIG!! Compared to the the other mentioned buds these sound almost like there is a bit of reverb built into them... Very cool! They cover the full frequency range with ease... What I think is necessary for accurate representation. Sounds signature is similar, but an improvement on, the Datura X and HE150 Pro... And luckily my preferred sound signature so far.

As a caveat, these are only initial impressions as more time is required for burn in... Either way things are looking up and I think I'm going have plenty to keep my busy for a while....


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 3, 2018)

toear said:


> So.... I feel like I'm a candy store... but with only a dollar at a time...
> 
> My eb2s came in at the end of last week. Today I got both my Faael Datura X and my looooong awaited K's 300 Samsara!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


So you hear this reverb or resonance in your samsara too? I noticed something similar in the ling, I think it's around 1-2khz. Check with a frequency sweet on youtube and see loud it gets around 1-2khz. Most of my earbuds dip between those two. 2khz or slightly beyond it starts to do the natural raise until it hits 5-6khz and dips again.

My ling however (factoring in the slight channel imbalance at around 1.2khz) had a definate bump in that region, infact the right channel had a pretty unacceptable massive peak there (painful to the ear compared to the left which was just moderate) and the bass developed a rattle in the right driver so i got it sent back for repair from the seller because that's not really acceptable at this price.

But, once I just focused on listening to the left earbud, it sounded way more natural but its possibly this peak is a common occurance in K's earbuds? Maybe it's intentional to have it like this.

It makes vocals very emphasised but a little overly bright without the low mid body to back it up.

Try dipping 1-2k by 1,2 and 3 db on an EQ and tell me if it sounds more normal/natural if you can?


----------



## beyermann

EB2 arrived. If I had to compare to a "sound", from all the stuff i've tried thats recognizable.. I would say it reminds me a bit to the HD650. It has really smooth highs, bass is tight, soundstage is good. Im using it with the grey pads, it looks good grey with black. I've only used it for a couple hours, I wonder how it will warm up.


----------



## waynes world

toear said:


> So.... I feel like I'm a candy store... but with only a dollar at a time...
> 
> My eb2s came in at the end of last week. Today I got both my Faael Datura X and my looooong awaited K's 300 Samsara!!!!!!!
> 
> ...



Nice impressions. Thanks!


----------



## iron2k

Has anyone compared Blox TM9 with some Blur earbuds???


----------



## rkw (Oct 4, 2018)

vladstef said:


> I'd love to see them become the new EMX500 (which I belive was the most popular budget bud so far).


Monk+ went viral on the internet and must be the most popular and best known. It is no accident that so many buds sold on AliExpress claim "kills Monk+". Everybody knows the Monk+. Nobody says "kills EMX500".


----------



## gazzington

So black ling, ebx, blox or rose masya? I listen to pretty much all genres.


----------



## euge

gazzington said:


> So black ling, ebx, blox or rose masya? I listen to pretty much all genres.



I own black ling, tm9 and masya, I'd pick tm9, I prefer the fuller and smooth tuning.


----------



## ClieOS

gazzington said:


> So black ling, ebx, blox or rose masya? I listen to pretty much all genres.



You should know that in a month or so Black Ling will be replaced by Titaniun Ling while Masya will be replaced by Masya 2. You might want you wait just a little longer.


----------



## vladstef

rkw said:


> Monk+ went viral on the internet and must be the most popular and best known. It is no accident that so many buds sold on AliExpress claim "kills Monk+". Everybody knows the Monk+. Nobody says "kills EMX500".



I get what you are saying but I feel like this comment is kinda outdated. Monk is not among the best buds for months now, dare I say years and EMX500 is consistently on top of polls on Earbuds Anonymous. It is also highly regarded here.


----------



## chinmie

rkw said:


> Monk+ went viral on the internet and must be the most popular and best known. It is no accident that so many buds sold on AliExpress claim "kills Monk+". Everybody knows the Monk+. Nobody says "kills EMX500".



maybe because emx500 is harder to kill, while the monk+ is easier? maybe...


----------



## kurtextrem

ClieOS said:


> You should know that in a month or so Black Ling will be replaced by Titaniun Ling while Masya will be replaced by Masya 2. You might want you wait just a little longer.


Damn. But the prices are higher. I'd expect the price for the Black Ling to drop on the 11.11 to around 200$. 375$ is almost the double...


----------



## gazzington

ClieOS said:


> You should know that in a month or so Black Ling will be replaced by Titaniun Ling while Masya will be replaced by Masya 2. You might want you wait just a little longer.


Hmm may leave it until 11.11 unless I go blox


----------



## blackberriesandthinkpads

ClieOS said:


> You should know that in a month or so Black Ling will be replaced by Titaniun Ling while Masya will be replaced by Masya 2. You might want you wait just a little longer.



I thought the Titanium Ling was already out on the Chinese website?


----------



## ClieOS

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> I thought the Titanium Ling was already out on the Chinese website?



That's pre-order. Actual production has yet to begin AFAIK.

Maysa 2 however is already in production, but currently limited to custom order only which will give you a customized face plate like an custom IEM. Official price has yet to be publicly announced yet.


----------



## blackberriesandthinkpads

ClieOS said:


> That's pre-order. Actual production has yet to begin AFAIK.
> 
> Maysa 2 however is already in production, but currently limited to custom order only which will give you a customized face plate like an custom IEM. Official price has yet to be publicly announced yet.



Did pre-order permit the choice of a low impedance version or is the low impedance version just speculation at this point?


----------



## ClieOS

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> Did pre-order permit the choice of a low impedance version or is the low impedance version just speculation at this point?


Pre-order doesn't specify which version but I am pretty sure both versions will be available. However the final price of the high impedance version has yet to be determined. It is currently national days in China and typically everyone will be off for at least a week so we won't get more detail until they are back to work sometime next week.


----------



## 40760

ClieOS said:


> Pre-order doesn't specify which version but I am pretty sure both versions will be available. However the final price of the high impedance version has yet to be determined. It is currently national days in China and typically everyone will be off for at least a week so we won't get more detail until they are back to work sometime next week.



Truly exciting times for the earbuds space...


----------



## toear

seanc6441 said:


> So you hear this reverb or resonance in your samsara too? I noticed something similar in the ling, I think it's around 1-2khz. Check with a frequency sweet on youtube and see loud it gets around 1-2khz. Most of my earbuds dip between those two. 2khz or slightly beyond it starts to do the natural raise until it hits 5-6khz and dips again.



I just checked... seems to be very similar, not disturbingly so though (at least as far as I can tell as of yet... ). The most piercing sibilance comes in at around 3.3K ish. The slight bump before and after allow for that mid-high presence without the sibilance. Definitely, a v-shape based on the jump in the highs in general

The reverb I am referring to (to clarify if we are on the same page) is more of the spatial effect you get with audio programmes or processors... it is not necessarily a bad thing.

Incidentally, I just ran the Eb2 through the same thing... much more flat through that range (1-5K) with a ramp up at around 4.7K ish. .....clarity!

And the Datura X - at a very quick listen... slight drop between 1.2-1.8K, rise then drop again between 2.2-2.5K, slight rise, then ramps up at 5K ish... more u-shaped...? 

... but then again I'm sure there are charts for all this stuff...


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> That's pre-order. Actual production has yet to begin AFAIK.
> 
> Maysa 2 however is already in production, but currently limited to custom order only which will give you a customized face plate like an custom IEM. Official price has yet to be publicly announced yet.


Oh I saw that but It looks like the same Masya shell and thus I assumed same driver, just with new aesthetics to choose custom back plate?

Hace you heard it is actually a new driver-tuning too?


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 4, 2018)

toear said:


> I just checked... seems to be very similar, not disturbingly so though (at least as far as I can tell as of yet... ). The most piercing sibilance comes in at around 3.3K ish. The slight bump before and after allow for that mid-high presence without the sibilance. Definitely, a v-shape based on the jump in the highs in general
> 
> The reverb I am referring to (to clarify if we are on the same page) is more of the spatial effect you get with audio programmes or processors... it is not necessarily a bad thing.
> 
> ...


Well this reverb has to be a resonance peak or dip somewhere as it's not magic but I'm not sure if it's at 3-5k because ive had a lot of buds with very much presence at this region and it usually determines the agressiveness and brightness of the mids BUT it almost never sounds unnatural or out of place. It's usually if that peak is proceeded or followed by some weird dip, or if the peak is before or after 3-5k that we usually hear some weirdness. I know my unit was detective but the left driver had a presence at 1.2-2khz that's higher than normal (but actually didnt sound too unnatural) yet the right driver had like a 5db spike in that region which was muderous and a bass rattle so i know it was a defect and im wondering if your unit has some big frequency imbalance which would cause a sort of delay/reverb between L/R drivers at certain frequencies.

Try to listen to any big peaks or dips again and see if its emphasised on one driver or both. Small channel imbalances are fine but large ones effect the SQ.


----------



## Themilkman46290

doggiemom said:


> Hey, I am Korean, may I borrow? I live in the US though.
> 
> This has been odd.  I missed the religious stuff, or took it as tongue in cheek.
> 
> ...


 could you post a link to your review of the k's earbuds, I am undecided as to witch to get, would love to better understand what the difference is between them (beside impedance) thanks in advance


----------



## mbwilson111

rkw said:


> Monk+ went viral on the internet and must be the most popular and best known. It is no accident that so many buds sold on AliExpress claim "kills Monk+". Everybody knows the Monk+. Nobody says "kills EMX500".





chinmie said:


> maybe because emx500 is harder to kill, while the monk+ is easier? maybe...



I have always thought that the reason the Aliexpress sellers put "kills Monk+" in the description is so that anyone who searches for a Monk will find these other listings and find out that there are other choices.  Meanwhile, I love my Monks and the others I have chosen


----------



## mbwilson111

Themilkman46290 said:


> could you post a link to your review of the k's earbuds, I am undecided as to witch to get, would love to better understand what the difference is between them (beside impedance) thanks in advance



Are you referring to this post that @doggiemom  made last week?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2371#post-14501676


----------



## Carrow (Oct 4, 2018)

I sent the Airman buds on to @SeedRick today so I have a spare Oyaide MMCX cable at the moment. Thinking of getting @WillSound buds modded to work with it...


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Oct 4, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Are you referring to this post that @doggiemom  made last week?
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2371#post-14501676


Thanks mbwilson that's the one, this actually answers my questions, great job doggiemom ( cute dog btw) guess I will get the samsara  on the 11/11 sale


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Well this reverb has to be a resonance peak or dip somewhere as it's not magic but I'm not sure if it's at 3-5k because ive had a lot of buds with very much presence at this region and it usually determines the agressiveness and brightness of the mids BUT it almost never sounds unnatural or out of place. It's usually if that peak is proceeded or followed by some weird dip, or if the peak is before or after 3-5k that we usually hear some weirdness. I know my unit was detective but the left driver had a presence at 1.2-2khz that's higher than normal (but actually didnt sound too unnatural) yet the right driver had like a 5db spike in that region which was muderous and a bass rattle so i know it was a defect and im wondering if your unit has some big frequency imbalance which would cause a sort of delay/reverb between L/R drivers at certain frequencies.
> 
> Try to listen to any big peaks or dips again and see if its emphasised on one driver or both. Small channel imbalances are fine but large ones effect the SQ.



a reverb is a reverb. not a resonance peak. i think what @toear experienced with the Samsara is just simply the Samsara has more depth that it can display the room/ spatial information better. so it's not something that's the Samsara added, but was not heard (or heard with less information) on other earbuds. i don't know if this is a pattern, but aside of the TM9 and Willsounds, my high impedance earbuds seems to display better/ roomier sound, not as intimate as the low impedanced ones. I think it's not really impedance related, it's just a more common occurrence


----------



## toear

chinmie said:


> a reverb is a reverb. not a resonance peak. i think what @toear experienced with the Samsara is just simply the Samsara has more depth that it can display the room/ spatial information better. so it's not something that's the Samsara added, but was not heard (or heard with less information) on other earbuds. i don't know if this is a pattern, but aside of the TM9 and Willsounds, my high impedance earbuds seems to display better/ roomier sound, not as intimate as the low impedanced ones. I think it's not really impedance related, it's just a more common occurrence



Sorry... yes... to clarify.. I did not literally mean 'add reverb', other than referring to the tuning on that particular bud. The Samsara does have a bigger depth and space presentation than pretty much all of my buds. My understanding was that higher impedance helped with the presentation of detail (perhaps through better separation via a larger soundstage?)... Mind you I find the detail on the Datura X to be exceptional, yet the soundstage is not as big as the Samsaras....


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 4, 2018)

chinmie said:


> a reverb is a reverb. not a resonance peak. i think what @toear experienced with the Samsara is just simply the Samsara has more depth that it can display the room/ spatial information better. so it's not something that's the Samsara added, but was not heard (or heard with less information) on other earbuds. i don't know if this is a pattern, but aside of the TM9 and Willsounds, my high impedance earbuds seems to display better/ roomier sound, not as intimate as the low impedanced ones. I think it's not really impedance related, it's just a more common occurrence


I understand but the samasara is using the same standard mx500 shell as every other mx500 type earbud so if the reverb is caused by the shell it would be common across many earbuds.

It may be perceived as a reverb but it's not proven to be so. I'm thinking it could be a characteristic of the driver frequency response.

If it's an effect of the soundstage, it's caused by the driver frequency response. That's why I suspect it to be an imbalance or resonance in the driver.


----------



## toear

seanc6441 said:


> Well this reverb has to be a resonance peak or dip somewhere as it's not magic but I'm not sure if it's at 3-5k because ive had a lot of buds with very much presence at this region and it usually determines the agressiveness and brightness of the mids BUT it almost never sounds unnatural or out of place. It's usually if that peak is proceeded or followed by some weird dip, or if the peak is before or after 3-5k that we usually hear some weirdness. I know my unit was detective but the left driver had a presence at 1.2-2khz that's higher than normal (but actually didnt sound too unnatural) yet the right driver had like a 5db spike in that region which was muderous and a bass rattle so i know it was a defect and im wondering if your unit has some big frequency imbalance which would cause a sort of delay/reverb between L/R drivers at certain frequencies.
> 
> Try to listen to any big peaks or dips again and see if its emphasised on one driver or both. Small channel imbalances are fine but large ones effect the SQ.



As I mentioned in the other post my using 'reverb' to describe the soundstage was referring more to the characteristics of a reverb effect on sounds in music. It has more to do with presentation than creation. The resonance that you are hearing, I am guessing, could be created by the relationship between the shape/ spatial volume of the earbuds and the frequencies coming from the music.... To clarify, is this peak you are hearing disruptive to the music? Or, an observation of how the music is being presented? Perhaps my description of 'slight-bump' is also not accurate. The frequencies begin to rise around 1.8K, but drops a bit around 2.8 - 4Kish, then continues to rise... a V-shaped sound with a smaller v in the 2.8-4K region. Hope this makes sense. 

I have not as of yet noticed any big discrepancies between L/R channels...will check.


----------



## RodRevenge

mbwilson111 said:


> I have always thought that the reason the Aliexpress sellers put "kills Monk+" in the description is so that anyone who searches for a Monk will find these other listings and find out that there are other choices.  Meanwhile, I love my Monks and the others I have chosen


I decided to give my monk + some time on and damn they sound better than i remember, it is still the best earbud for starters.


----------



## waynes world

toear said:


> Datura X - for my preferences the hype is real! Bass and sound signature is similar to the HE150 Pro but mid and highs are more pronounced. Smooth. Whereas the HE150 Pro is slightly L-shaped, the Datura X is more neutral. Soundstage is nice and wide and holographic but depth goes to to the HE150 Pro. (I'm listening to these as I write this... These are awesome !! The separation and layering is fantastic! I'm going to have to do more comparisons but I think these just replaced my HE150 Pros...?! )
> 
> K's 300 Samsara - very similar to full can goodness (HD650 as a reference). As much as I want them to be the same the HD650 is still on a different level I think. These things do sound BIG!! Compared to the the other mentioned buds these sound almost like there is a bit of reverb built into them... Very cool! They cover the full frequency range with ease... What I think is necessary for accurate representation. Sounds signature is similar, but an improvement on, the Datura X and HE150 Pro... And luckily my preferred sound signature so far.
> 
> As a caveat, these are only initial impressions as more time is required for burn in... Either way things are looking up and I think I'm going have plenty to keep my busy for a while....



You aren't making me want the K's 300 Samsara's any less!


----------



## toear

seanc6441 said:


> I understand but the samasara is using the same standard mx500 shell as every other mx500 type earbud so if the reverb is caused by the shell it would be common across many earbuds.
> 
> It may be perceived as a reverb but it's not proven to be so. I'm thinking it could be a characteristic of the driver frequency response.
> 
> If it's an effect of the soundstage, it's caused by the driver frequency response. That's why I suspect it to be an imbalance or resonance in the driver.



Yes... the 'reverb' (or big soundstage characteristics) is created by the driver and tuning more so, and less dependent on the shell. I could see how imbalance would throw the presentation/resonance (there is going to be some kind of resonance in the physical earbud... this is why porting can change the characteristics/frequencies of presentation.


----------



## toear

waynes world said:


> You aren't making me want the K's 300 Samsara's any less!



.... just sharing the love...


----------



## seanc6441

toear said:


> As I mentioned in the other post my using 'reverb' to describe the soundstage was referring more to the characteristics of a reverb effect on sounds in music. It has more to do with presentation than creation. The resonance that you are hearing, I am guessing, could be created by the relationship between the shape/ spatial volume of the earbuds and the frequencies coming from the music.... To clarify, is this peak you are hearing disruptive to the music? Or, an observation of how the music is being presented? Perhaps my description of 'slight-bump' is also not accurate. The frequencies begin to rise around 1.8K, but drops a bit around 2.8 - 4Kish, then continues to rise... a V-shaped sound with a smaller v in the 2.8-4K region. Hope this makes sense.
> 
> I have not as of yet noticed any big discrepancies between L/R channels...will check.


For my Ling it was an issue with driver imbalance and the peak was lower around 1.2khz and sounded piercing/unnatural. I'm 100% sure it was a defect as the same driver was rattling in the bass weeks later. It must has had a fault in it's manufacturing.

Maybe the samsara FR was intended to sound as you are hearing, for my ling it was a jarring experience and I immediately asked ClieOS about his Ling which was not experiencing such issues.

It was only last month that I realised how big the imbalance was and it was a massive spike, then the bass rattle forced me to contact the seller for repair/replacement.


----------



## toear

seanc6441 said:


> For my Ling it was an issue with driver imbalance and the peak was lower around 1.2khz and sounded piercing/unnatural. I'm 100% sure it was a defect as the same driver was rattling in the bass weeks later. It must has had a fault in it's manufacturing.
> 
> Maybe the samsara FR was intended to sound as you are hearing, for my ling it was a jarring experience and I immediately asked ClieOS about his Ling which was not experiencing such issues.
> 
> It was only last month that I realised how big the imbalance was and it was a massive spike, then the bass rattle forced me to contact the seller for repair/replacement.


Ah... My initial observations with the Samsara were just observations, not fault-pointing. I hope your Lings get sorted... I have glanced at them based on your comments but limited my self ONLY to glancing... even with the big sale discounts, it is a big 'commitment'...


----------



## seanc6441

toear said:


> Ah... My initial observations with the Samsara were just observations, not fault-pointing. I hope your Lings get sorted... I have glanced at them based on your comments but limited my self ONLY to glancing... even with the big sale discounts, it is a big 'commitment'...


Don't let those issues throw you off im sure I just got unlucky, the build quality is excellent otherwise and the sound is pretty unique and go from decent to exceptional with the right foams.


----------



## ClieOS (Oct 4, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Oh I saw that but It looks like the same Masya shell and thus I assumed same driver, just with new aesthetics to choose custom back plate?
> 
> Hace you heard it is actually a new driver-tuning too?



From what I have gathered so far, the tuning will be different. While it is officially referred as Masya 2, it is actually the third versions as far as tuning is concerned. The original tuning is with the normal gold/black face plate as well as carbon fiber face plate, then there is the 2nd tuning which has the wooden face plate but is offered alongside the original tuning. Rose probably didn't feel the difference is big enough to call the them a separated products as they do with Masya 2. So far I only learn about the custom version but my guess is the non-custom version will not be far away either, then we will likely have more info about pricing. In any case I'll try to confirm with Rose about all the detail once they are back to work.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> I understand but the samasara is using the same standard mx500 shell as every other mx500 type earbud so if the reverb is caused by the shell it would be common across many earbuds.
> 
> It may be perceived as a reverb but it's not proven to be so. I'm thinking it could be a characteristic of the driver frequency response.
> 
> If it's an effect of the soundstage, it's caused by the driver frequency response. That's why I suspect it to be an imbalance or resonance in the driver.



believe me, i tinkered with reverb effects in recording and mixing long enough to not mixed the sound of intended reverb (made by the recording) or a bouncing rogue resonance signal caused by the shell  .  when in doubt you can alway check the song with bigger gears other than earbuds (speakers, headphones, car stereo system, etc) to check, see if it is a reverb or a "reverb"


----------



## iron2k (Oct 4, 2018)

iron2k said:


> Has anyone compared Blox TM9 with some Blur earbuds???


Anyone that can help ???


----------



## j4100

waynes world said:


> You aren't making me want the K's 300 Samsara's any less!



Is this where I say that my Samsara's are one of my fave buds? No? I'll get my coat!


----------



## rkw

vladstef said:


> I get what you are saying but I feel like this comment is kinda outdated. Monk is not among the best buds for months now, dare I say years and EMX500 is consistently on top of polls on Earbuds Anonymous. It is also highly regarded here.


My comment didn't have anything to do with quality, only popularity and celebrity. Personally, I never even liked the Monk+. The internet has given the Monk+ a huge amount of publicity (like this). Outside this thread, most people probably can't name another earbud (well, except for Apple EarPod). I will give Monk credit for that — many people gave up on earbuds long ago, and the Monk publicity brought earbuds back to their attention.


----------



## waynes world

rkw said:


> Outside this thread



No such place exists.


----------



## theresanarc

I find very little difference between those Vido's and Monks tbh (I don't listen at high volumes), both have the same shell and a similar sound for me. I guess I prefer the build of the cable that the Monk uses compared to that crappy Vido EMX500 cable but they are like half the price of a Monk+ so there's that at least lol.

Btw if anyone knows of any earphones that have that PK2 shell on sale or for the price of a Monk+ then lemme know, I wanna try out that shell before I get one of the better ones with it.


----------



## toear

seanc6441 said:


> Don't let those issues throw you off im sure I just got unlucky, the build quality is excellent otherwise and the sound is pretty unique and go from decent to exceptional with the right foams.


... if i didn't know any better I'd say you were trying to encourage me to consider the black lings..................


----------



## cqtek

snip3r77 said:


> Is the bass similar to Qian 69 ?



Hello.

But first of all I must say that the lace I get with the EB2 is quite deep, the earbud is sure to fit me best. By this I mean that I get a good seal, surely that's why I get a feeling of bass greater.

The tests between both have been quite fast, but I have created a little idea of their differences.

EB2 is more sensitive than Qian69. IMHO EB2 has more subbass but the Qian69 have more presence in the medium bass. Qian69 is something more in V than EB2, EB2 has more forward voices and greater clarity, where Qian69 sounds more distant and veiled. The highs of the Qian69 sound sharper to me while in the EB2 they are softer and better integrated with the mids. The clarity, scene and separation are better in EB2. Globally better EB2 compared to Qian69.


----------



## seanc6441

toear said:


> ... if i didn't know any better I'd say you were trying to encourage me to consider the black lings..................


Well I do like them! That's why I'm going to buy the new titanium ling


----------



## beyermann (Oct 4, 2018)

After trying the EB2 for 2 days, I kind of miss a bit of more action in the trebles, it's a bit too "smooth" for my taste but it sounds pretty good.

Next purchase will be the panda which is suposed to be a clone of the Yuin PK2 and I loved the Yuin PK3 back then and supposedly PK2 was better.

I guess a smooth sound is better for your earing low term tho.


----------



## doggiemom

Themilkman46290 said:


> could you post a link to your review of the k's earbuds, I am undecided as to witch to get, would love to better understand what the difference is between them (beside impedance) thanks in advance


Sure, here it is:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2371#post-14501676


----------



## seanc6441

beyermann said:


> After trying the EB2 for 2 days, I kind of miss a bit of more action in the trebles, it's a bit too "smooth" for my taste but it sounds pretty good.
> 
> Next purchase will be the panda which is suposed to be a clone of the Yuin PK2 and I loved the Yuin PK3 back then and supposedly PK2 was better.
> 
> I guess a smooth sound is better for your earing low term tho.


Panda has soft treble and warm bass. Just a heads up, it's no more trebley than eb2 but has a fuller low mids.


----------



## snip3r77

beyermann said:


> After trying the EB2 for 2 days, I kind of miss a bit of more action in the trebles, it's a bit too "smooth" for my taste but it sounds pretty good.
> 
> Next purchase will be the panda which is suposed to be a clone of the Yuin PK2 and I loved the Yuin PK3 back then and supposedly PK2 was better.
> 
> I guess a smooth sound is better for your earing low term tho.


Is it as warm as Vidos?


----------



## ClieOS

Just finished reterminated my WillSound MK1 Special from the original 3.5mm single-ended plug to the 2.5mm balanced plug. It really doesn't need the extra power of balanced output but the original plug isn't playing nicely with most of my DAP (*it keeps loosen up) so I decided to swap it out and given most of my DAP has balanced output anyway it just makes more sense that way. Besides I just got a few of these beautiful 2.5mm plugs coming in and I really wanted to use them on something.


----------



## toear

doggiemom said:


> Sure, here it is:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2371#post-14501676



Hint:

S _ _ _ _ _ a


----------



## redkingjoe

toear said:


> ... if i didn't know any better I'd say you were trying to encourage me to consider the black lings..................



Isn’t the titanium Ling any better?

I somehow remembered that whenever a new ling comes out, the old ling got discounted! So I would hold my horse until 11.11!


----------



## WillSound

actually not easy soldering on litz


ClieOS said:


> Just finished reterminated my WillSound MK1 Special from the original 3.5mm single-ended plug to the 2.5mm balanced plug. It really doesn't need the extra power of balanced output but the original plug isn't playing nicely with most of my DAP (*it keeps loosen up) so I decided to swap it out and given most of my DAP has balanced output anyway it just makes more sense that way. Besides I just got a few of these beautiful 2.5mm plugs coming in and I really wanted to use them on something.





ClieOS said:


> Just finished reterminated my WillSound MK1 Special from the original 3.5mm single-ended plug to the 2.5mm balanced plug. It really doesn't need the extra power of balanced output but the original plug isn't playing nicely with most of my DAP (*it keeps loosen up) so I decided to swap it out and given most of my DAP has balanced output anyway it just makes more sense that way. Besides I just got a few of these beautiful 2.5mm plugs coming in and I really wanted to use them on something.


look good, actually not wase soldering on litz.


----------



## waynes world

toear said:


> Hint:
> 
> S _ _ _ _ _ a



Quit killing me!


----------



## ClieOS

WillSound said:


> actually not easy soldering on litz.



You are of course correct, it isn't nearly as easy to solder as other cable. But what a very nice cable it is.


----------



## Ramprasad

https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/...al-experience-earbuds-international-giveaway/

Good luck everyone


----------



## golov17

Ramprasad said:


> https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/...al-experience-earbuds-international-giveaway/
> 
> Good luck everyone


Link HERE not found


----------



## golov17

ClieOS said:


> WillSound MK1


WillSound day today?


----------



## Themilkman46290

doggiemom said:


> Sure, here it is:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2371#post-14501676


Thanks, great comparison, answered all my questions, I been trying to make up my mind for the 11/11 sale, seems like I will probably like the samsara  and I think your dog looks pretty ( love dogs too)


----------



## audio123

golov17 said:


> Link HERE not found


It is now fixed. Thanks!


----------



## euge

iron2k said:


> Anyone that can help ???



https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/blox-tm9.23346/reviews#review-20963


----------



## golov17

Rose Masya Pro Dual Dynamic Driver 
http://s.aliexpress.com/FbM7rmmU


----------



## iron2k

euge said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/blox-tm9.23346/reviews#review-20963


Thanks, I've already read the review but what I need is a compare between TM9 and Blur Dark Chocolate. I really appreciate it.


----------



## cocolinho

i highly doubt that someone has both actually


----------



## iron2k

cocolinho said:


> i highly doubt that someone has both actually


Yeah, I was thinking that also.
I'm trying to decide which one to buy.


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> Rose Masya Pro Dual Dynamic Driver
> http://s.aliexpress.com/FbM7rmmU



Nice find. BTW I read about the upcoming Mojito Pro as well, also a dual driver setup but featuring a massive 20mm bass driver. Prototype seems to begin to appear in China with an unconfirmed price going over USD$500.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 5, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> Is it as warm as Vidos?


Noooo, it's got a slightly warmed bass but the mids are analytical and neutral-bright and the treble is smooth and neutralish.


----------



## seanc6441

redkingjoe said:


> Isn’t the titanium Ling any better?
> 
> I somehow remembered that whenever a new ling comes out, the old ling got discounted! So I would hold my horse until 11.11!


How would you know if there's only ever been one generation of Ling earbuds so far? The ling and samsara got a discount during the last 11.11 but there was no mention of a new product at the time so I think it's just a normal sale discount not a stock clearout.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 5, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> Nice find. BTW I read about the upcoming Mojito Pro as well, also a dual driver setup but featuring a massive 20mm bass driver. Prototype seems to begin to appear in China with an unconfirmed price going over USD$500.


You were right it has a new tuning according to penon. 'Condensed' and deeper bass. Improved overall resolution.

Also the woodgrain looks better this time round and hopefully the build quality of the plastic is improved.

About the new mojito that is a very ambitiously priced but 20mm drivers is insane so it could be the new ultra high resolution bud like the last mojito was!


----------



## Narayan23

Ramprasad said:


> https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/...al-experience-earbuds-international-giveaway/
> 
> Good luck everyone



No Facebook so no joy, but good luck nonetheless


----------



## golov17




----------



## DAndrew

I just got the ZoomFred. After 10 mins:  The bass is deep, really really great quality, how should I put it? Vast? its not overpowering its just _right. 
_
The highs do indeed need to smooth out, but they should do so after some burn in

Will report with a full review after a few weeks


----------



## seanc6441

DAndrew said:


> I just got the ZoomFred. After 10 mins:  The bass is deep, really really great quality, how should I put it? Vast? its not overpowering its just _right.
> _
> The highs do indeed need to smooth out, but they should do so after some burn in
> 
> Will report with a full review after a few weeks


Are you using the stock foams and are they regular full foams?


----------



## silverfishla

ClieOS said:


> Nice find. BTW I read about the upcoming Mojito Pro as well, also a dual driver setup but featuring a massive 20mm bass driver. Prototype seems to begin to appear in China with an unconfirmed price going over USD$500.


I see it (Masya 2) has an 89ohm rating, which is good.  I find that that I like the 50-100 ohm rating when coming out of my DAPs at high gain.  Pushing the dap a bit and trying to get in the groove zone.  One thing with the old Mojito and Masya’s, is they didn’t really improve when pushing it with an amp and I kind of liked them better with just a dap.  Hopefully these will muscle up better.  I don’t want to spend $500 dollars for a new Mojito though.  I’ll have to see some reviews first and try to get a super deal for me to pull the trigger...


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 5, 2018)

silverfishla said:


> I see it (Masya 2) has an 89ohm rating, which is good.  I find that that I like the 50-100 ohm rating when coming out of my DAPs at high gain.  Pushing the dap a bit and trying to get in the groove zone.  One thing with the old Mojito and Masya’s, is they didn’t really improve when pushing it with an amp and I kind of liked them better with just a dap.  Hopefully these will muscle up better.  I don’t want to spend $500 dollars for a new Mojito though.  I’ll have to see some reviews first and try to get a super deal for me to pull the trigger...


Where are you seeing 89 ohm? On penon audio its 16 ohm and 10 ohm.

I wouldn't want to spend 500 on the mojito pro unless the frequency response is considerably more linear than the first which has too much of a mid bass bump, vocal range dip and upper treble bump to sound smooth and coherant. A heavily EQ'ed mojito sounds amazing but if I'm spending 500 id want it to be a flavour closer to neutral not a very contrasting M shape sig.


----------



## gazzington

golov17 said:


> Rose Masya Pro Dual Dynamic Driver
> http://s.aliexpress.com/FbM7rmmU


Anybody know the sound difference in these compared to the original?


----------



## golov17 (Oct 5, 2018)

gazzington said:


> Anybody know the sound difference in these compared to the original?


New stuff.. not yet.. only Taobao pics (wood)


----------



## mochill

ClieOS said:


> Nice find. BTW I read about the upcoming Mojito Pro as well, also a dual driver setup but featuring a massive 20mm bass driver. Prototype seems to begin to appear in China with an unconfirmed price going over USD$500.


Mojito pro =-O , $500 =-O


----------



## seanc6441

mochill said:


> Mojito pro =-O , $500 =-O


Seems to be a trend for new TOTLS announced... It's going the route of high end IEM's it seems.


----------



## gazzington

No way am I spending that much. There are many really good earbuds out there for way less than half that much


----------



## waynes world

gazzington said:


> No way am I spending that much. There are many really good earbuds out there for way less than half  *1/10th* that much



Fixed that for ya (well, at least that's what I'm going to try to keep telling myself lol)


----------



## Danneq

gazzington said:


> No way am I spending that much. There are many really good earbuds out there for way less than half that much



Yep, that was me about 2 years ago...


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 5, 2018)

gazzington said:


> No way am I spending that much. There are many really good earbuds out there for way less than half that much


I think restraint is key here xD

The emx500 are really good earbuds for $15. Some people would be shocked at the thought of spending $100 on earbuds. This is no different I guess. Some can afford it others will save up to buy them because they feel its worth it 

Some won't ever be able to justify spending that much on earbuds!


----------



## gazzington

I could get 2 blurs for less than £500! I'm only kidding, if those mojitos end up being raved about by everyone I'd probably consider them.


----------



## seanc6441

gazzington said:


> I could get 2 blurs for less than £500! I'm only kidding, if those mojitos end up being raved about by everyone I'd probably consider them.


Yeah but you could get like 30 VE monks for the price of the blur!

Granted we still dont know if these earbuds will sound $500 so the jury is still out on them and others in that price range for now.


----------



## silverfishla

seanc6441 said:


> Where are you seeing 89 ohm? On penon audio its 16 ohm and 10 ohm.
> 
> I wouldn't want to spend 500 on the mojito pro unless the frequency response is considerably more linear than the first which has too much of a mid bass bump, vocal range dip and upper treble bump to sound smooth and coherant. A heavily EQ'ed mojito sounds amazing but if I'm spending 500 id want it to be a flavour closer to neutral not a very contrasting M shape sig.


Ooops, you're right.  I F*d that one.  Nevermind.


----------



## gazzington

seanc6441 said:


> Yeah but you could get like 30 VE monks for the price of the blur!
> 
> Granted we still dont know if these earbuds will sound $500 so the jury is still out on them and others in that price range for now.


Think how many vidos you could get!


----------



## audio123

*Head-Fi Reviews on Penon BS1 Official/Experience*
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/penon-bs1-official-version.22858/reviews
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/bs1-experience-ver-earbud.22473/reviews

There is a chance to win these earbuds via this giveaway


----------



## fleasbaby

seanc6441 said:


> I think restraint is key here xD
> 
> The emx500 are really good earbuds for $15. Some people would be shocked at the thought of spending $100 on earbuds. This is no different I guess. Some can afford it others will save up to buy them because they feel its worth it
> 
> Some won't ever be able to justify spending that much on earbuds!



Been out of the earbuds game for about a year. Fun to see how much has changed since I stepped back for a while. 

Seems to be a lot of mentions of the EMX500. Can anyone recommend a good AliExpress seller for them? Also thinking I'll try the Datura-X and the K's 300 (non-Samsara).


----------



## mochill

fleasbaby said:


> Been out of the earbuds game for about a year. Fun to see how much has changed since I stepped back for a while.
> 
> Seems to be a lot of mentions of the EMX500. Can anyone recommend a good AliExpress seller for them? Also thinking I'll try the Datura-X and the K's 300 (non-Samsara).


You should get the TM9


----------



## groucho69

What would be your choice at $150 with trrs?


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> Are you using the stock foams and are they regular full foams?



Herry actually recommends using them without foam ( I agree that they dont really need foams to bring out the bass ) but I still put the stock foams on it to keep them clean basically lol.

Yeah they seem indeed to be regular full foams, but they resemble VE foams quality wise


----------



## beyermann

snip3r77 said:


> Is it as warm as Vidos?


I don't know what Vidos is.


----------



## beyermann

seanc6441 said:


> Panda has soft treble and warm bass. Just a heads up, it's no more trebley than eb2 but has a fuller low mids.



I see. So which one you recommend next. I think the PK3 had more brightey highs.


----------



## fleasbaby

mochill said:


> You should get the TM9



I should, but its more than I'd like to spend .


----------



## seanc6441

fleasbaby said:


> Been out of the earbuds game for about a year. Fun to see how much has changed since I stepped back for a while.
> 
> Seems to be a lot of mentions of the EMX500. Can anyone recommend a good AliExpress seller for them? Also thinking I'll try the Datura-X and the K's 300 (non-Samsara).


The emx500 is an oldie by now but try the **** clear shell clear SPC cable one as that's gotten lots of praise.

You should also try out a willsound bud as they have been all the rage lately. The mk1 vjc or mk2 premium cable version may be ones to check out 

Also the $16 faeaal datura X (you can get it in 3.5/2.5 or 4.4 I believe) has been praised too! Metal build and nice cable by the looks of it.


----------



## seanc6441

beyermann said:


> I see. So which one you recommend next. I think the PK3 had more brightey highs.


I don't know many bright-ish yet full sounding pk shell buds, except the shozy cygnus.


----------



## mochill

fleasbaby said:


> I should, but its more than I'd like to spend .


After you get it , you wouldn't need another earbud


----------



## iron2k

seanc6441 said:


> The emx500 is an oldie by now but try the **** clear shell clear SPC cable one as that's gotten lots of praise.
> 
> You should also try out a willsound bud as they have been all the rage lately. The mk1 vjc or mk2 premium cable version may be ones to check out
> 
> Also the $16 faeaal datura X (you can get it in 3.5/2.5 or 4.4 I believe) has been praised too! Metal build and nice cable by the looks of it.


I haven't found the Datura X Balanced, only 3.5mm in AE, do you know somewhere else???


----------



## seanc6441

iron2k said:


> I haven't found the Datura X Balanced, only 3.5mm in AE, do you know somewhere else???


Stumbled upon it when looking at another earbud. $29 for balanced.


FAAEAL Datura-X Hi-Res Earphone Headset Noise Canceling HIFI Bass Earbuds 3.5/2.5/4.4mm Balance For All phones Sony player
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bPdp9Et6


----------



## waynes world

mochill said:


> After you get it , you wouldn't need another earbud



Yeah right! This is head-fi. Who you kidding?


----------



## iron2k

seanc6441 said:


> Stumbled upon it when looking at another earbud. $29 for balanced.
> 
> 
> FAAEAL Datura-X Hi-Res Earphone Headset Noise Canceling HIFI Bass Earbuds 3.5/2.5/4.4mm Balance For All phones Sony player
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bPdp9Et6


Great thanks


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Stumbled upon it when looking at another earbud. $29 for balanced.
> 
> 
> FAAEAL Datura-X Hi-Res Earphone Headset Noise Canceling HIFI Bass Earbuds 3.5/2.5/4.4mm Balance For All phones Sony player
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bPdp9Et6



That link is not working for me.


----------



## waynes world

DAndrew said:


> I just got the ZoomFred. After 10 mins:  The bass is deep, really really great quality, how should I put it? Vast? its not overpowering its just _right.
> _
> The highs do indeed need to smooth out, but they should do so after some burn in
> 
> Will report with a full review after a few weeks



Looking forward to it.


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> That link is not working for me.



Tiandirehne store sells it.

Funny thing is that name sounds remarkably like a native Irish name so i had to double check I was buying from a chinese store on aliexpress lol.


----------



## iron2k

waynes world said:


> That link is not working for me.


Try this one:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FAA...6e82-435f-812c-acf69f6359cc&priceBeautifyAB=0


----------



## seanc6441

iron2k said:


> Try this one:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FAA...6e82-435f-812c-acf69f6359cc&priceBeautifyAB=0


Thx, the share function on android for aliexpress gives the worst shortened URL links and they only work half the time.


----------



## fleasbaby

seanc6441 said:


> The emx500 is an oldie by now but try the **** clear shell clear SPC cable one as that's gotten lots of praise.
> 
> You should also try out a willsound bud as they have been all the rage lately. The mk1 vjc or mk2 premium cable version may be ones to check out
> 
> Also the $16 faeaal datura X (you can get it in 3.5/2.5 or 4.4 I believe) has been praised too! Metal build and nice cable by the looks of it.



Thanks! I am a little wary of the shape of the Datura. Usually I battle to get a good seating in my ear with those little "bells" but I might just try it anyway. 



mochill said:


> After you get it , you wouldn't need another earbud



LOL...yeah, yeah...I know...they'll change my life and all of that 

I know that feeling well, but earbuds have always been a fun diversion I use sometimes when I tire of listening to the stuff I build. I still keep a pair of the OG Monk (the earliest version with the red labeling), the other OG Monk (the plain black shell with silver labeling) and a pair of Monk +. I saw how much activity had been going on and figured it might be fun to pick up a couple of pairs to try again. Low investment, high return on fun...


----------



## Danneq

DAndrew said:


> Herry actually recommends using them without foam ( I agree that they dont really need foams to bring out the bass ) but I still put the stock foams on it to keep them clean basically lol.
> 
> Yeah they seem indeed to be regular full foams, but they resemble VE foams quality wise



He told me the same when we met in Tokyo in July. I brought my pair of CampFred 1 and he asked what foams I was using. I replied that I use thin VE foams. He said that he tunes the Cypherus earbuds to be used without foams. I used thin foams at first with ZoomFred but then switched to rubber rings with fins from the VE EX pack (but with the fins cut off). That's when the ZF really found their perfect sound. I do think that other Cypherus earbuds work well with foams, but mainly thin VE type foams because of the already good bass.


----------



## mochill

waynes world said:


> Yeah right! This is head-fi. Who you kidding?


I kid you not


----------



## seanc6441

Danneq said:


> He told me the same when we met in Tokyo in July. I brought my pair of CampFred 1 and he asked what foams I was using. I replied that I use thin VE foams. He said that he tunes the Cypherus earbuds to be used without foams. I used thin foams at first with ZoomFred but then switched to rubber rings with fins from the VE EX pack (but with the fins cut off). That's when the ZF really found their perfect sound. I do think that other Cypherus earbuds work well with foams, but mainly thin VE type foams because of the already good bass.


I think as long as the mid bass isnt too boomy you can get away with the ve or ali thin foams without compromising clarity too much. Full foams not so much.


fleasbaby said:


> Thanks! I am a little wary of the shape of the Datura. Usually I battle to get a good seating in my ear with those little "bells" but I might just try it anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah I can imagine as beautiful as the wooden headphones you build can be thar sometimes its nice to free your ears with earbuds xD

You'll like the emx500 if its not a lemon, really versatile sound with great bass and treble presence.


----------



## chinmie

mochill said:


> After you get it , you wouldn't need another earbud



that's cute, give it a month or so 
i know i don't need it. i saw someone sold them for 100 bucks and had the opportunity, i still didn't buy it (although i should have  and just resell it for profit) . I just had a meet session with friends last night, and a friend who tried it also didn't like it.

the bottom line is no single earbud mentioned in this forum is the ultimate "the one" that will make the others obselete


----------



## chinmie

ClieOS said:


> Nice find. BTW I read about the upcoming Mojito Pro as well, also a dual driver setup but featuring a massive 20mm bass driver. Prototype seems to begin to appear in China with an unconfirmed price going over USD$500.


if their are selling it for $500, i wish Rose would make them just a bit more robust.. I've seen their products (earbuds d iems) chipped and cracked (worst case) and loosing logos (minor problem but still annoying ) posted in my local forums one time too many. SQwise...well, they already have a solid base and good followers, so any improvements in that category would be a win


----------



## bavinck

iron2k said:


> Anyone that can help ???


Very similar to blur h/H. I would save some cash and go with blur. There are some comparisons in the thread if you look.


----------



## Xyst

I'm just starting down this path and looking for my next pair of earbuds, not IEMs, with a mic and Android volume controls.

I've been using the Monk Lite phones for a while and enjoy the size, comfort, and price point. I wish they had a little more low end. Are there any good suggestions for a next step?


----------



## theresanarc (Oct 5, 2018)

^ Go to the official Remax store on AliExpress, I ordered a pair of IEMs the other day but say a pair of earbuds with decent reviews (they're a few years old). RM-5something I think, anyways they let you switch the control from Android and iPhone, they looked fairly small in terms of diameter and the reviews were good.

Not very popular here because they were old as I said but worth trying for $10, different design than most of the other shells.

edit: Remax 305m is their name.


----------



## seanc6441

Xyst said:


> I'm just starting down this path and looking for my next pair of earbuds, not IEMs, with a mic and Android volume controls.
> 
> I've been using the Monk Lite phones for a while and enjoy the size, comfort, and price point. I wish they had a little more low end. Are there any good suggestions for a next step?


Try find an emx500 with mic cable. More bass and treble than the monks, better overall sound imo.


----------



## waynes world

Xyst said:


> I'm just starting down this path and looking for my next pair of earbuds, not IEMs, with a mic and Android volume controls.
> 
> I've been using the Monk Lite phones for a while and enjoy the size, comfort, and price point. I wish they had a little more low end. Are there any good suggestions for a next step?





seanc6441 said:


> Try find an emx500 with mic cable. More bass and treble than the monks, better overall sound imo.



sean is not leading you astray - the emx500's should be your next stop


----------



## audio123

For those asking me, quick comparison of D2+ vs ShoonTH ESEP-01BU.

The bass texture of the ESEP-01BU is smoother while the D2+ has quicker bass decay. The midrange of the Dragon 2+ is more lively and thinner than the ESEP-01BU. ESEP-01BU has extra body and provides a soothing intimate listen. Treble on the D2+ is brighter and slightly more extended. There is extra sparkle. The ESEP-01BU operates with smoothness. Soundstage of D2+ is bigger.


----------



## silverfishla

Remember those foams awhile back that were super porous and looked like they would be really itchy?  I can confirm...they are very porous and itchy.  But, if you have set of buds that you like the sound with no foams but need something to grip your ears, these might be for you.  They kind of feel like a Brillo pad going into your ear, but once they are in there, it’s not so bad.  Also, they work good underneath another foam (if you can get it on) to add some airy space in between.  Not quite sure but I think I can perceive a bit of increased spaciousness in the sound this way.  Anyways, my two cents.


----------



## seanc6441

audio123 said:


> For those asking me, quick comparison of D2+ vs ShoonTH ESEP-01BU.
> 
> The bass texture of the ESEP-01BU is smoother while the D2+ has quicker bass decay. The midrange of the Dragon 2+ is more lively and thinner than the ESEP-01BU. ESEP-01BU has extra body and provides a soothing intimate listen. Treble on the D2+ is brighter and slightly more extended. There is extra sparkle. The ESEP-01BU operates with smoothness. Soundstage of D2+ is bigger.


D2+ sounds outright better to me then


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 6, 2018)

silverfishla said:


> Remember those foams awhile back that were super porous and looked like they would be really itchy?  I can confirm...they are very porous and itchy.  But, if you have set of buds that you like the sound with no foams but need something to grip your ears, these might be for you.  They kind of feel like a Brillo pad going into your ear, but once they are in there, it’s not so bad.  Also, they work good underneath another foam (if you can get it on) to add some airy space in between.  Not quite sure but I think I can perceive a bit of increased spaciousness in the sound this way.  Anyways, my two cents.


They do soften after some use really, at first to the touch its scratchy but i never had an issue with them in my ear. Then after a few days of use it softens considerably. Try stick it out and see what its like in a few days 

And yes I've tested it myself putting them under full foams gives an... Interesting effect... It adds some space to the staging because the driver is physically further from the ear, but also it removes some mid bass-low mids emphasis, so you get a more airy-thinner presentation but with the seal of a thick foam so the sound is kinda unique.

Doesn't work for some earbuds but on some it sounds quite good


----------



## Ziggomatic

silverfishla said:


> Remember those foams awhile back that were super porous and looked like they would be really itchy?  I can confirm...they are very porous and itchy.  But, if you have set of buds that you like the sound with no foams but need something to grip your ears, these might be for you.  They kind of feel like a Brillo pad going into your ear, but once they are in there, it’s not so bad.  Also, they work good underneath another foam (if you can get it on) to add some airy space in between.  Not quite sure but I think I can perceive a bit of increased spaciousness in the sound this way.  Anyways, my two cents.



Thanks. I have a set on the way I wanted to try on my BS1O and was wondering if they're as bad as they look. It sounds like they do to the sound what I was hoping.


----------



## audio123

seanc6441 said:


> D2+ sounds outright better to me then


If you prefer a smoother sound, ShoonTH ESEP-01BU. The D2+ is technically better but cost 100 USD more so no surprise.


----------



## redkingjoe

seanc6441 said:


> Seems to be a trend for new TOTLS announced... It's going the route of high end IEM's it seems.



Exactly


----------



## redkingjoe

iron2k said:


> Thanks, I've already read the review but what I need is a compare between TM9 and Blur Dark Chocolate. I really appreciate it.



It might be even better to chat with blur and give him a budget to see if he can beat the sound of TM9!

From blur, At least you will get a much better plug and cable than the TM9!

However, the aftermarket value of blur is so unpredictable! There’s a new model coming out each week! If you get a blur and wanna get rid of it later, there might be trouble explaining the sound signature...your blur is probably very outdated.


----------



## Dubusal

If you have a high quality cable, try it. The image of moondrop you know will change.


----------



## DAndrew

Danneq said:


> He told me the same when we met in Tokyo in July. I brought my pair of CampFred 1 and he asked what foams I was using. I replied that I use thin VE foams. He said that he tunes the Cypherus earbuds to be used without foams. I used thin foams at first with ZoomFred but then switched to rubber rings with fins from the VE EX pack (but with the fins cut off). That's when the ZF really found their perfect sound. I do think that other Cypherus earbuds work well with foams, but mainly thin VE type foams because of the already good bass.



I will have to cut the fins and try it too then, but I still think that I will use a foam, just to protect it


----------



## DAndrew

So early Christmas came, I usually browse used markets and today I found a few gems, some mint Walkman MP3 players. They are incredibly nice looking but sadly one has a dead battery that I will have to replace. The other works and had an interesting button, "Bass" , so I tried it with the ZoomFred....not even joking this bass...its so unreal, like a subwoofer. I dont know how that little player does it, but the boost only affects the Bass, and smooths out the highs just enough to get rid of the annoying peak that Herry said will go away with the burn in and the sound is otherwise not affected 

My only regret is not getting more players because he had more if the same models, but I will go again as soon as possible and grab them all lol


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 6, 2018)

Dubusal said:


> If you have a high quality cable, try it. The image of moondrop you know will change.


Moondrop liebesleid is a detachable cable earbud??? :O


----------



## Danneq

Dubusal said:


> If you have a high quality cable, try it. The image of moondrop you know will change.



Cool mod! Did you do it?


----------



## DAndrew (Oct 6, 2018)

Lmao what the hell are these Walkmans, I thought about trying them with the buds I have left, the TO400s is unreal, its fixed now, the bass hits to hard. Even harder and better than the Samsara....the EB2 is fixed as well...the bass these earbuds output now is screwing ridiculous...not much effect on the monks tho lol

EDIT: To detail on the monks, they do accentuate it but they cant control it well so I am not sure yet if its worth it


----------



## bavinck

You guys really need to get into trying Moonbuds. I got the nightshade and am seriously impressed. It's a bit of a leaner sound in comparision to TM9, and the technicalities are excellent.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 6, 2018)

DAndrew said:


> Lmao what the hell are these Walkmans, I thought about trying them with the buds I have left, the TO400s is unreal, its fixed now, the bass hits to hard. Even harder and better than the Samsara....the EB2 is fixed as well...the bass these earbuds output now is screwing ridiculous...not much effect on the monks tho lol
> 
> EDIT: To detail on the monks, they do accentuate it but they cant control it well so I am not sure yet if its worth it


It's applying a bass boost filter below 100hz probably?


----------



## seanc6441

bavinck said:


> You guys really need to get into trying Moonbuds. I got the nightshade and am seriously impressed. It's a bit of a leaner sound in comparision to TM9, and the technicalities are excellent.


They look a million dollars! The style is always on point.


----------



## seanc6441

Selling some earbuds in the FS section if anyone is interested. Bk 2.5 balanced included.


----------



## seanc6441

Danneq said:


> Cool mod! Did you do it?


If that's a mod it's absolutely fantastic because the connector and shell look all one piece. It's gonna change the tuning though unless the original stem was made completely airtight by the cable...


----------



## csglinux

seanc6441 said:


> Selling some earbuds in the FS section if anyone is interested. Bk 2.5 balanced included.


That BK is a very good earbud. Have you already heard the endgame earbud that beats it? If so, what is it?


----------



## bavinck

csglinux said:


> That BK is a very good earbud. Have you already heard the endgame earbud that beats it? If so, what is it?


My K600, blur, TM9 and moonbuds nightshade all are on another level. The bk is a very good bud, but I wouldn't call it totl.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 6, 2018)

csglinux said:


> That BK is a very good earbud. Have you already heard the endgame earbud that beats it? If so, what is it?


I'm saving up for the K's Titanium Ling.

The bk was my first high end earbud and I loved it but as my experience with earbuds went on I moved towards a different signature. I'd love to keep em all but I need the funds so it is what it is and hopefully someone else will enjoy them now


----------



## csglinux

seanc6441 said:


> I'm saving up for the K's Titanium Ling.
> 
> The bk was my first high end earbud and I loved it but as my experience with earbuds went on I moved towards a different signature. I'd love to keep em all but I need the funds so it is what it is and hopefully someone else will enjoy them now



So you're selling the BKs without ever having heard the K's Titanium Ling? Can you reliably do an A/B with weeks or months worth of a gap in between?!?


----------



## csglinux

bavinck said:


> My K600, blur, TM9 and moonbuds nightshade all are on another level. The bk is a very good bud, but I wouldn't call it totl.


Thanks for the feedback! I have a TM9 on the way, but I plan on keeping my BK buds unless and until I hear that next level 

BTW, I use ToneKing donut ring thin foams on the BKs. I found that improved their FR.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 6, 2018)

csglinux said:


> So you're selling the BKs without ever having heard the K's Titanium Ling? Can you reliably do an A/B with weeks or months worth of a gap in between?!?


I own the K's Black ling which is almost what I'm looking for in an earbud. That's why i want the new ling as it should be an upgrade while retaining the great shell and mild V sig of the black ling.

I also own many other earbuds to compare and contrast to the bk and the titanium ling when i get it. So i dont need to keep buds around just for comparison as the bk isnt the sound im looking for these days.


----------



## jant71

ClieOS said:


> Before you trade it away, try this: swap the left and right earpieces on cable, then wear them over-the-ear. Kind of give it a more analytical sound. Someone on erji.net taught me this.



@ClieOS , what I ended up doing was taping up the back oval mesh vent, adding the silicone caps and fairly thick foams. Also went to the Semkarch CNT1 stock cable after removing the awful memory wire from it.  Also got the FiiO LC 3.5As for them since it cost me $7.50 with 2-day shipping. I have a clip DAP coming and it is starting to be jacket weather so that chest pocket begs for the short cable.


----------



## bavinck

csglinux said:


> Thanks for the feedback! I have a TM9 on the way, but I plan on keeping my BK buds unless and until I hear that next level
> 
> BTW, I use ToneKing donut ring thin foams on the BKs. I found that improved their FR.


I don't think you will replace the bk with TM9. Different buds. TM9 is pretty balanced with excellent, full, detailed bass. Bk is a midhead bud.


----------



## ClieOS

jant71 said:


> @ClieOS , what I ended up doing was taping up the back oval mesh vent, adding the silicone caps and fairly thick foams. Also went to the Semkarch CNT1 stock cable after removing the awful memory wire from it.  Also got the FiiO LC 3.5As for them since it cost me $7.50 with 2-day shipping. I have a clip DAP coming and it is starting to be jacket weather so that chest pocket begs for the short cable.



Sound like you are all set


----------



## MisterMudd

ClieOS said:


> Spent the morning recabling these two: Sennheiser MX90vc and LX90


The cable wraps?


----------



## subwoof3r

Looks like the hype about PK32 has been past, but sometimes I listen to them and they still impress me so far!
There is something truely magic on these earbuds. Still my best PK2 shell sounding earbuds so far.
Excellent job @WillSound ! I I will never forget you 
Hope to see new PK2 variants from you.


----------



## ClieOS (Oct 7, 2018)

MisterMudd said:


> The cable wraps?



From Taobao.

[edit] Aliexpress has it, search "magnet cable organizer". Take note that the magnet in the cable is not molded fully into the cable and can fall out from time to time. You can however put it back together easily.


----------



## RobinFood (Oct 7, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> From Taobao.
> 
> [edit] Aliexpress has it, search "magnet cable organizer". Take note that the magnet in the cable is not molded fully into the cable and can fall out from time to time. You can however put it back together easily.



They have some here in Japan too, but with super strong magnets. I dismissed them seeing how strong that magnet was, fearing damage to the driver. It came with a nifty metal case though, so that the magnet would keep the earphones in place.

I much prefer those leather snap-button fasteners personally.

Here is what they look like -> http://www.e-earphone.jp/shop/shopdetail.html?brandcode=000000067597&search=zero&sort=price_desc


----------



## chinmie

subwoof3r said:


> Looks like the hype about PK32 has been past, but sometimes I listen to them and they still impress me so far!
> There is something truely magic on these earbuds. Still my best PK2 shell sounding earbuds so far.
> Excellent job @WillSound ! I I will never forget you
> Hope to see new PK2 variants from you.



have you tried his PK16 yet?


----------



## snip3r77

subwoof3r said:


> Looks like the hype about PK32 has been past, but sometimes I listen to them and they still impress me so far!
> There is something truely magic on these earbuds. Still my best PK2 shell sounding earbuds so far.
> Excellent job @WillSound ! I I will never forget you
> Hope to see new PK2 variants from you.



What other Willsounds that you have that you can compare?
I have the MK1 and Mk3


----------



## seanc6441

I'm selling my pk32 because it's not the sig I prefer, and I have others that can excell in the same genres.

But it's pretty nice and has a completely unique bass presentation for a pk bud. It's super linear bass without any mid bass bump.


----------



## csglinux

ClieOS said:


> Spent the morning recabling these two: Sennheiser MX90vc and LX90


Apologies in advance if this is a dumbass question, but is there a standard way all these earbud shells come apart to allow you to re-solder? Are you able to open and close the shells on all these earbuds without doing any damage?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 7, 2018)

MisterMudd said:


> The cable wraps?



We like these... we have 80 of them.  When we bought the first 20 we thought that was all we would need.  Then we bought another 20.  Finally last month we bought a pack of 40... here they are. Bought from Amazon UK for £11.99 (the 40 pack).   Still have a few spare...

I should mention that we use them for IEMs and for buds.  They are good for thinner cables not really bulky ones.


----------



## chaiyuta

RobinFood said:


> They have some here in Japan too, but with super strong magnets. I dismissed them seeing how strong that magnet was, fearing damage to the driver. It came with a nifty metal case though, so that the magnet would keep the earphones in place.
> 
> I much prefer those leather snap-button fasteners personally.
> 
> Here is what they look like -> http://www.e-earphone.jp/shop/shopdetail.html?brandcode=000000067597&search=zero&sort=price_desc



The real one "Mag-Hug" has high strength magnet (above N55 I believe). I own Four.


----------



## DBaldock9

csglinux said:


> Apologies in advance if this is a dumbass question, but is there a standard way all these earbud shells come apart to allow you to re-solder? Are you able to open and close the shells on all these earbuds without doing any damage?



Most earbud drivers consist of the _speaker_, attached to the plastic _front piece_, snapped or glued onto the front of the shell.  
If much glue was used, the assembly will be difficult to remove, without damaging the front piece.
.


----------



## iron2k

Simphonio dragon 2+ ... $199

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/simpho...ontent=1538917520534.554377491045701084126072


----------



## subwoof3r

chinmie said:


> have you tried his PK16 yet?


Sorry, no plan to buy earbuds inferior to 32 ohms as both my sources seems to be too much sensitive for 16 ohms, and also the fact that I generally prefer 32+ for (generally) better sounding.
But from what I can read, it seems that PK16 seems to performs very well (maybe even slightly better for some?)



snip3r77 said:


> What other Willsounds that you have that you can compare?
> I have the MK1 and Mk3


I had MK1 rev2 in the past, and still own MK2 rev2 and PK32, they shares the same overall natural and transparent signature but to me they performs and sound all differently. PK32 is more "truth" to music and bass is surprisingly good for a PK shell.
I guess that PK32 should be more close to MK3 (that I never tried then) in term of sound signature.


----------



## ClieOS (Oct 7, 2018)

RobinFood said:


> They have some here in Japan too, but with super strong magnets. I dismissed them seeing how strong that magnet was, fearing damage to the driver. It came with a nifty metal case though, so that the magnet would keep the earphones in place.
> 
> I much prefer those leather snap-button fasteners personally.
> 
> Here is what they look like -> http://www.e-earphone.jp/shop/shopdetail.html?brandcode=000000067597&search=zero&sort=price_desc



Been there, done that.





Magnetic strength from modest (left) to strong (right). The only way the magnet on these thing can affect the earbuds is when you have music playing (when there is a magnetic field on the coil),  otherwise it is pretty safe. The one of the right side is by far my favorite as it serves duo purposes, as cable organizer as well as shirt clip (* by passing the headphone plug into the middle opening, it will stay on the cable and the magnet can be used to 'clip' onto the shirt).




csglinux said:


> Apologies in advance if this is a dumbass question, but is there a standard way all these earbud shells come apart to allow you to re-solder? Are you able to open and close the shells on all these earbuds without doing any damage?



Most earbuds are glued together between the front grill and the back chamber, which is where the first step of dissembling (*prying) begins. Once you taken it apart, it is just a matter of removing old cable and cleaning up the housing for a new cable to go in. Old earbuds are generally easy to do as the glue usually has perished to some degree. There are also cases where no glue is used and the whole thing just snapped together when made. Note that Soldering needs to be fast and with as little heat transfer as possible as coil wire are very fragile things.


----------



## cocolinho

FYI no glue on my Willsound MK2. Easy to wire better cable


----------



## Danneq

iron2k said:


> Simphonio dragon 2+ ... $199
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/simphonio-dragon-2-earbuds?mode=guest_open&utm_campaign=Drop: Request Launched&utm_source=SparkPost&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Drop: Request Launched&utm_content=1538917520534.554377491045701084126072&referer=KSFMQ2&utm_content=1538917520534.554377491045701084126072



Already? The massdrop with the same price that I joined ended just 3 or 4 weeks ago! My SWD2+ was shipped the other day.


----------



## seanc6441

Danneq said:


> Already? The massdrop with the same price that I joined ended just 3 or 4 weeks ago! My SWD2+ was shipped the other day.


Wasn't it $210 before?


----------



## Danneq

seanc6441 said:


> Wasn't it $210 before?



I think it was $240. It was $199.99 when I bought it. I figured that even with import taxes and customs fees it will still be cheaper than buying them at full price...


----------



## DUBSAL_SP

seanc6441 said:


> Moondrop liebesleid is a detachable cable earbud??? :O



Yes. If you have it, be sure to try it.
You will never regret it.



Danneq said:


> Cool mod! Did you do it?



Yes. 
I bought two and used one as it was, and one tried to renovate it. 
The result was more than i expected. 
All of the performance has improved with the entry-level wagnus cable. 
I will look for a better cable. 
For the best chemistry



seanc6441 said:


> If that's a mod it's absolutely fantastic because the connector and shell look all one piece. It's gonna change the tuning though unless the original stem was made completely airtight by the cable...



absolutely fantastic...Itself
Focal Utopia Version The Red Dragon will soon be available for completion, but the potential of a good unit of detachable is enormous.


----------



## astenlet (Oct 8, 2018)

To the owner of the Red Dragon Utopia i have to congratulate u for u have the one of the best earbud i have ever heard in my life. U have a miniature utopia on your hands.


----------



## csglinux

DUBSAL_SP said:


> Focal Utopia Version The Red Dragon will soon be available for completion, but the potential of a good unit of detachable is enormous.



You're going to solder LEMO connectors to a Red Dragon earbud?!? Surely not. What joke am I missing here?


----------



## subwoof3r

@seanc6441 : I just received today my 200 ali foams ! 
After checking them one by one, approx 70% directly goes to my trash as they were absolutely not usable (holes not in center at all, damaged, badly cutted, etc).
After washing the good ones, I can see the benefit: they sound a bit like VE extreme thin foams but brings a slight more thickness. They are between my VE foams and ABnormal ones, which is good. Currently trying them on my WIllsound MK2 rev2.
Thanks for the discover!


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> Have the Datura X as well, I'll say EB2 impressed me more on the first listen.
> 
> According to NiceHCK, this particular model is priced for higher sale volume rather than higher individual margin, hence the good value.





subwoof3r said:


> @seanc6441 : I just received today my 200 ali foams !
> After checking them one by one, approx 70% directly goes to my trash as they were absolutely not usable (holes not in center at all, damaged, badly cutted, etc).
> After washing the good ones, I can see the benefit: they sound a bit like VE extreme thin foams but brings a slight more thickness. They are between my VE foams and ABnormal ones, which is good. Currently trying them on my WIllsound MK2 rev2.
> Thanks for the discover!


The recent batch I got were vastly better QC. I'd say 80% perfect and they didnt rip. They seem to vary in quality. Atleast 30 are good for you so you can use them, yes they sound great.


----------



## gazzington

seanc6441 said:


> The recent batch I got were vastly better QC. I'd say 80% perfect and they didnt rip. They seem to vary in quality. Atleast 30 are good for you so you can use them, yes they sound great.


Which foams are these?


----------



## seanc6441

gazzington said:


> Which foams are these?


Search ali thin its been posted like 20 times by me and I'm tired now xD


----------



## gazzington

seanc6441 said:


> Search ali thin its been posted like 20 times by me and I'm tired now xD


Lol no worries, I'll take a read through at some point!


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 8, 2018)

gazzington said:


> Lol no worries, I'll take a read through at some point!



I think he was talking about the little search bar just under the thread title banner...that says "search this thread "

Just type in what he suggested.

ali thin

Here you go..I just did that and turned up this post (among others)

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2304#post-14476032


----------



## iron2k

also can try this to aliexprres

https://goo.gl/AedWn2


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 8, 2018)

astenlet said:


> To the owner of the Red Dragon Utopia i have to congratulate u for u have the one of the best earbud i have ever heard in my life. U have a miniature utopia on your hands.


More details please lol

Where did you get the chance to hear it? Do you own the Utopia and compared the two?

How close does the sound come to the real thing? (not the the red dragon is a fake anything but you know what I mean)


----------



## mbwilson111

Many questions can be answered by using that search bar or the more advanced one at the top of the page.  Everyone in the forum should learn to use it.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Many questions can be answered by using that search bar or the more advanced one at the top of the page.  Everyone in the forum should learn to use it.



This x1000


----------



## Dubusal

csglinux said:


> You're going to solder LEMO connectors to a Red Dragon earbud?!? Surely not. What joke am I missing here?


I really wanted it, but herry did not recommend it for Qc.


----------



## Dubusal (Oct 8, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> More details please lol
> 
> Where did you get the chance to hear it? Do you own the Utopia and compared the two?
> 
> How close does the sound come to the real thing? (not the the red dragon is a fake anything but you know what I mean)



I wonder. It will soon be completed and shipped. When things come, I will try to listen to the utopia side by side,


----------



## seanc6441

Dubusal said:


> I wonder. It will soon be completed and shipped. When things come, I will try to listen to the utopia side by side,


But you do not own this red dragon? I I'm confused, is it going to be your red dragon, Is herry making it for you?

And yes that comparison would be nice!


----------



## Danneq

seanc6441 said:


> But you do not own this red dragon? I I'm confused, is it going to be your red dragon, Is herry making it for you?
> 
> And yes that comparison would be nice!


 
Herry has custom made the second pair of Red Dragon for Dubusal and recently sent it out to him. I suppose astenlet is Indonesian and knows Herry and has had a chance to listen to the "Red Dragon Utopia" before it was sent out. Before my pair of "Red Dragon HD800S" was sent out to the first owner proLoL there were some other people who got to hear them.

I would never dare or risk to change the cable on my Red Dragon, despite the thick fire hose type cable.


----------



## Dubusal

seanc6441 said:


> But you do not own this red dragon? I I'm confused, is it going to be your red dragon, Is herry making it for you?
> 
> And yes that comparison would be nice!



Not yet. But The Red Dragon utopia version I ordered was completed and herry is under test. I have not received it yet.


----------



## csglinux

Danneq said:


> Herry has custom made the second pair of Red Dragon for Dubusal and recently sent it out to him. I suppose astenlet is Indonesian and knows Herry and has had a chance to listen to the "Red Dragon Utopia" before it was sent out. Before my pair of "Red Dragon HD800S" was sent out to the first owner proLoL there were some other people who got to hear them.
> 
> I would never dare or risk to change the cable on my Red Dragon, despite the thick fire hose type cable.



Am I reading this correctly?...
You folks are buying custom-tuned earbuds whose name is appended with that of some full-sized-can, and the name is supposed to indicate that the "Reg Dragon Utopia" sounds like the full-sized Be-driver Focal Utopia and the custom-tuned "Red Dragon HD800S" is supposedly tuned to sound like the Sennheiser HD800S?


----------



## csglinux

csglinux said:


> Am I reading this correctly?...
> You folks are buying custom-tuned earbuds whose name is appended with that of some full-sized-can, and the name is supposed to indicate that the "Reg Dragon Utopia" sounds like the full-sized Be-driver Focal Utopia and the custom-tuned "Red Dragon HD800S" is supposedly tuned to sound like the Sennheiser HD800S?


The reason I ask is... I'm considering putting my Edifier P180 SR-007 and VE Monk+ Orpheus HE1 earbuds up for sale. PM me if you're interested in a once-in-a-lifetime chance to own these $50,000 earbuds


----------



## Danneq (Oct 8, 2018)

csglinux said:


> The reason I ask is... I'm considering putting my Edifier P180 SR-007 and VE Monk+ Orpheus HE1 earbuds up for sale. PM me if you're interested in a once-in-a-lifetime chance to own these $50,000 earbuds



Nope, I've owned Red Dragon for over 1 year but it was just about 2 weeks ago I got to know what full sized head phones they were tuned to resemble. It goes without saying that they easily blow away every single other earbud I've heard. You can check my profile to check all of the earbuds I own or have owned. Still I keep trying new ones out. It's a wonderful hobby/addiction.

I don't know how Herry of Cypherus does it, if he's a magician at tuning earbuds or if he sprinkles pixie dust on the drivers, but my Red Dragon really do sound like full size headphones. It's almost a bit strange that you get a headphone sound without feeling the pressure of the pads on your ears.

Edit: And the person who orders the Red Dragon can ask to have them tuned to resemble a pair of full size headphones. It's not really a line of earbuds like the other Cypherus earbuds such as CampFred, ZoomFred or CAX Black or White CampFred.


----------



## csglinux

Danneq said:


> Nope, I've owned Red Dragon for over 1 year but it was just about 2 weeks ago I got to know what full sized head phones they were tuned to resemble. It goes without saying that they easily blow away every single other earbud I've heard. You can check my profile to check all of the earbuds I own or have owned. Still I keep trying new ones out. It's a wonderful hobby/addiction.
> 
> I don't know how Herry of Cypherus does it, if he's a magician at tuning earbuds or if he sprinkles pixie dust on the drivers, but my Red Dragon really do sound like full size headphones. It's almost a bit strange that you get a headphone sound without feeling the pressure of the pads on your ears.
> 
> Edit: And the person who orders the Red Dragon can ask to have them tuned to resemble a pair of full size headphones. It's not really a line of earbuds like the other Cypherus earbuds such as CampFred, ZoomFred or CAX Black or White CampFred.


Interesting. I'd love to see these measured and see if the Red Dragon Utopias really do have an unpleasant spike at ~5.5 kHz


----------



## seanc6441

csglinux said:


> Am I reading this correctly?...
> You folks are buying custom-tuned earbuds whose name is appended with that of some full-sized-can, and the name is supposed to indicate that the "Reg Dragon Utopia" sounds like the full-sized Be-driver Focal Utopia and the custom-tuned "Red Dragon HD800S" is supposedly tuned to sound like the Sennheiser HD800S?


These are custom $700 earbuds that Herry of Cypherus audio tunes to your preference. These may possibly be the best earbuds in existance according to th3 few reviews out there.

They aren't just any earbud and the name is just 'Red Dragon' but calling it by it's intended tuning helps distinguish the few variants ever made.


----------



## handwander

People spending triple digits on an mx500 shell will never not be hilarious.


----------



## seanc6441

handwander said:


> People spending triple digits on an mx500 shell will never not be hilarious.


Eh people spend $1000s on the all plastic stax headphones. I prefer the other shell designs but if the sound is right, you quickly forget about the rest


----------



## handwander

seanc6441 said:


> Eh people spend $1000s on the all plastic stax headphones. I prefer the other shell designs but if the sound is right, you quickly forget about the rest


Put some of that money into R&D or just experiment more. I refuse to believe that off the shell MX500 shells are the peak that humanity can achieve with regards to an earbud design. At least make cables more replaceable in general.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 8, 2018)

handwander said:


> Put some of that money into R&D or just experiment more. I refuse to believe that off the shell MX500 shells are the peak that humanity can achieve with regards to an earbud design. At least make cables more replaceable in general.


I don't disagree but I don't think something like the red dragon is not the example to use because its cable is very specific and part of the tuning so making it detachable would not make sense. The shell is obviously what herry is used to and he can tune them expertly.

Some of the bigger companies can and should look to make the change but the I can see why the diyers stick to mx500 and pk shells for now.


----------



## Zerohour88

its a good thing people spend those triple digits on the sound then

if it a small outfit like Herry, can't imagine he can whip out an earbud design that can somehow beat the refinement that bigger companies have already made. He's already busy with tuning.


----------



## handwander (Oct 8, 2018)

Could you guys go into more detail as to what the the process of internally tuning an earbud is? I'm genuinely curious as to what directly impacts cost difference (aside from obvious labor and cable materials and etc.) for the tuning itself.

Clearly the makers feel that zero external design aside from maybe a new vent hole now and then has an impact enough to devote any attention to it.

Anyway part of this is bias since I really hate the mx500 shell. If every maker were instead using of the shell yuin / docomo shells I wouldn't be complaining.


----------



## Danneq

And Herry told told me in an e-mail that he's thinking about not doing more Red Dragons. At least that's what he felt after the last one. It takes several weeks to make a pair. He received that order in June I think. He told me about it when we met in Tokyo in early July and was going to start making them as soon as he returned to Indonesia. Well, he did make 4 or 5 pairs of White CampFred but then focused on the new Red Dragon order.


----------



## handwander

I'll accost him in Tokyo and demand Docomo shells in person.


----------



## Danneq

handwander said:


> Could you guys go into more detail as to what the the process of internally tuning an earbud is? I'm genuinely curious as to what directly impacts cost difference (aside from obvious labor and cable materials and etc.) for the tuning itself.
> 
> Clearly the makers feel that zero external design aside from maybe a new vent hole now and then has an impact enough to devote any attention to it.
> 
> Anyway part of this is bias since I really hate the mx500 shell. If every maker were instead using of the shell yuin / docomo shells I wouldn't be complaining.



My family will probably go to Japan again next year in August/September. I can bring my pair of Red Dragon and if it's possible for you we can meet up at e-earphone in Akihabara.


----------



## Danneq (Oct 8, 2018)

handwander said:


> I'll accost him in Tokyo and demand Docomo shells in person.



I asked about Yuin shells and Herry replied that you cannot get as good bass response with those shells as with MX500 shells. I also prefer Yuin shells fit wise, but MX500 shells work for me.

Edit: regarding Yuin shells, my pair of SWD2+ has been shipped. It might reach Sweden by next week. It's DHL this time so it's faster. But I might be hit with big customs and import fees...


----------



## handwander

Danneq said:


> My family will probably go to Japan again next year in August/September. I can bring my pair of Red Dragon and if it's possible for you we can meet up at e-earphone in Akihabara.


Kind of you but the last thing I want is to wear an mx500 shell! I've no doubt they sound great. Like most people here I was used to awful sounding earbuds from the past and the 1900円 panda pk2s made me put away 16000円 iems so this isn't anything against pricey buds.

Aside from my personal dislike of the shell it's just a funny contrast to see the prices compared with these kind of dated off the shelf components. Maybe it's because there are 20 new IEM shapes in all price ranges released every week.



Danneq said:


> I asked about Yuin shells and Herry replied that you cannot get as good bass response with those shells as with MX500 shells. I also prefer Yuin shells fit wise, but MX500 shells work for me.
> Edit: regarding Yuin shells, my pair of SWD2+ has been shipped. It might reach Sweden by next week. It's DHL this time so it's faster. But I might be hit with big customs and import fees...


Ignoring the cost or logistics of actually procuring or making them, does he have any thoughts on shells that are not the mx500? Is there an existing shell he'd use if it were as freely available or is he saying that the mx500 is just perfected. 

I guess if its broken don't fix it (though they could still use different materials etc...) and it does seem like a lot of the more unique shells have pickier fits. No shortage of complaints about how the Penon BS1s or NiceHCK EBXs or whatever fit.


----------



## Danneq

Outside of China earbud development has been pretty much dead in the last 15 or so years. Audio Technica has released stuff like CM700 and CM707 (although that one isn't at the same level as the CM700). Tiny makers focus on sound. There are some Chinese makers who do their own designs (like one of my favorites - Toneking, formerly Musicmaker) but they have more resources than one or two man companies...


----------



## chinmie

handwander said:


> Could you guys go into more detail as to what the the process of internally tuning an earbud is? I'm genuinely curious as to what directly impacts cost difference (aside from obvious labor and cable materials and etc.) for the tuning itself.
> 
> Clearly the makers feel that zero external design aside from maybe a new vent hole now and then has an impact enough to devote any attention to it.
> 
> Anyway part of this is bias since I really hate the mx500 shell. If every maker were instead using of the shell yuin / docomo shells I wouldn't be complaining.



the only benefit of yuin shell conpared to the MX500 is the smaller fitting only. when it come to tuning, that smaller shell itself is a limiting factor. i haven't heard a yuin based earbuds that have better extensions to the MX500 or MX760 based shell


----------



## handwander

chinmie said:


> the only benefit of yuin shell conpared to the MX500 is the smaller fitting only. when it come to tuning, that smaller shell itself is a limiting factor. i haven't heard a yuin based earbuds that have better extensions to the MX500 or MX760 based shell


Well like I said that particular preference (yuin v. mx500) is just personal. Remember these are devices that are meant to be worn, not speakers. Even if it sounds inferior I'll take something that is more comfortable for my ears.


----------



## theresanarc

What a coincidence, I opened this thread because I wanna ask:

What cheap earbud has a small diameter shell, smaller than the 16mm+ Qian/Monk Lite or MX500 shell. Something around 14mm if it's possible. This won't be my main earbud so I don't care about the audio quality as long as it's decent and cheap. Pretty much every ChiFi earbud I've had has been good in terms of sound signature for me except for the Awei ES10 and its weird signature.


----------



## wskl

theresanarc said:


> What a coincidence, I opened this thread because I wanna ask:
> 
> What cheap earbud has a small diameter shell, smaller than the 16mm+ Qian/Monk Lite or MX500 shell. Something around 14mm if it's possible. This won't be my main earbud so I don't care about the audio quality as long as it's decent and cheap. Pretty much every ChiFi earbud I've had has been good in terms of sound signature for me except for the Awei ES10 and its weird signature.



Take a look at the Toneking ROS1, around $25-30.

There is also a size comparison in these 2 links (1) and (2)


----------



## chinmie

handwander said:


> Well like I said that particular preference (yuin v. mx500) is just personal. Remember these are devices that are meant to be worn, not speakers. Even if it sounds inferior I'll take something that is more comfortable for my ears.



do you have issue with the MX500 if you wear them without foams? if not, maybe you could try some MX500 based earbuds that still sound good without the need of foams (like the Zen 2, willsound MK1/MK2, Kube, and..  I'll try to remember any others I've tried  )


----------



## astenlet

seanc6441 said:


> More details please lol
> 
> Where did you get the chance to hear it? Do you own the Utopia and compared the two?
> 
> How close does the sound come to the real thing? (not the the red dragon is a fake anything but you know what I mean)



Sry for the late reply. Last night i meet with herry since he just finish modding my hd 6xx. I don’t have the utopia but i remember on how it sound like. In my ears it is as close as u gonna get to utopia using earbuds. I have tried many of herry earbuds and my self own quite a number of them. In my ears this is the best he ever done in earbuds.


----------



## astenlet

Dubusal said:


> Not yet. But The Red Dragon utopia version I ordered was completed and herry is under test. I have not received it yet.



Herry is still fine tuning the red dragon is what he told me last night. I have to congratulate to you that it is definetly the best i have ever heard.


----------



## handwander

chinmie said:


> do you have issue with the MX500 if you wear them without foams? if not, maybe you could try some MX500 based earbuds that still sound good without the need of foams (like the Zen 2, willsound MK1/MK2, Kube, and..  I'll try to remember any others I've tried  )


I think my issue is the 'depth' of the shell. Seems to put too much pressure on my tragus or whatever and it gets quite sore after a short while.


----------



## waynes world

Danneq said:


> Nope, I've owned Red Dragon for over 1 year but it was just about 2 weeks ago I got to know what full sized head phones they were tuned to resemble. It goes without saying that they easily blow away every single other earbud I've heard. You can check my profile to check all of the earbuds I own or have owned. Still I keep trying new ones out. It's a wonderful hobby/addiction.
> 
> I don't know how Herry of Cypherus does it, if he's a magician at tuning earbuds or if he sprinkles pixie dust on the drivers, but my Red Dragon really do sound like full size headphones. It's almost a bit strange that you get a headphone sound without feeling the pressure of the pads on your ears.
> 
> Edit: And the person who orders the Red Dragon can ask to have them tuned to resemble a pair of full size headphones. It's not really a line of earbuds like the other Cypherus earbuds such as CampFred, ZoomFred or CAX Black or White CampFred.



That's it! I'm ordering up my Red Dragon KSC75's tomorrow!  



chinmie said:


> do you have issue with the MX500 if you wear them without foams? if not, maybe you could try some MX500 based earbuds that still sound good without the need of foams (like the Zen 2, willsound MK1/MK2, Kube, and..  I'll try to remember any others I've tried  )



You've heard the Kubes? Awesome buds!


----------



## hatranle

Hi guys, I plan to buy Blox TM9 but can not decide between 2.5mm and 3.5mm. Any one using 2.5mm and give me your impression and advice. Tks


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> That's it! I'm ordering up my Red Dragon KSC75's tomorrow!
> 
> 
> 
> You've heard the Kubes? Awesome buds!




 

indeed they are 



hatranle said:


> Hi guys, I plan to buy Blox TM9 but can not decide between 2.5mm and 3.5mm. Any one using 2.5mm and give me your impression and advice. Tks



it's low impedance, so not really benefit from balanced, unless your gear's SE channel is not optimized, then you should choose balanced


----------



## rkw

theresanarc said:


> What cheap earbud has a small diameter shell, smaller than the 16mm+ Qian/Monk Lite or MX500 shell.


"cheap" has a wide range in ChiFi. Do you mean below $10? $30? That's a 3x difference right there.

There is more to fit and size than the diameter. The Yuin PK style shell is only marginally smaller in diameter than the MX500, yet many of us (including me) find that it _feels_ smaller and more comfortable than MX500, due to the less bulky shape of the housing. The NiceHCK DIY PK2 is well regarded here.

The NiceHCK EB2 has a small, comfortable housing and has been all the rage in this thread for the past month. It is available for under $30 with head-fi discount.


----------



## 40760 (Oct 9, 2018)

hatranle said:


> Hi guys, I plan to buy Blox TM9 but can not decide between 2.5mm and 3.5mm. Any one using 2.5mm and give me your impression and advice. Tks



I struggled with this dilemma myself while ordering the VE Zen 2.0 Black Edition, but finally decided on going with SE 3.5mm, since I mainly use it with my Chord Mojo and hopefully higher end Chord products in the future.

I guess only go with 2.5mm if you have a balanced source, or if you plan to in the future. No point getting one and using it with an SE adapter if you're not going to utilise it in balanced mode.


----------



## redkingjoe

Danneq said:


> Outside of China earbud development has been pretty much dead in the last 15 or so years. Audio Technica has released stuff like CM700 and CM707 (although that one isn't at the same level as the CM700). Tiny makers focus on sound. There are some Chinese makers who do their own designs (like one of my favorites - Toneking, formerly Musicmaker) but they have more resources than one or two man companies...



The ATH-CM2000ti seems very attractive! That high end diamond like carbon driver is what most earbuds are missing! At yen50,000, ATH is putting a lot into the new earbuds!


----------



## subwoof3r

redkingjoe said:


> The ATH-CM2000ti seems very attractive! That high end diamond like carbon driver is what most earbuds are missing! At yen50,000, ATH is putting a lot into the new earbuds!


Wanna try?


----------



## subwoof3r

Does anybody tried WIllsound MK150 yet ? looks like I can't find any impression


----------



## handwander

I know someone who tried them out briefly last month. Apparently impressive soundstage.


----------



## 40760

handwander said:


> I know someone who tried them out briefly last month. Apparently impressive soundstage.



Quite interesting of them to print the L/R indicators on the mesh itself. Does that mean they're meant to be used without foams?


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> indeed they are



Is the Kube still available?  I saw a photo that showed it in purple..

Is the one in the photo yours?  Did you recable it?


----------



## handwander

palestofwhite said:


> Quite interesting of them to print the L/R indicators on the mesh itself. Does that mean they're meant to be used without foams?


Does seem like a bit of a poor choice lol. Marks are also on the a2dc connector though.


----------



## 40760 (Oct 9, 2018)

handwander said:


> Does seem like a bit of a poor choice lol. Marks are also on the a2dc connector though.



Any chance you'll be trying it out yourself to give us some comments? 

Looks like a JDM only product... so probably won't be available to us locally to demo...


----------



## redkingjoe

subwoof3r said:


> Wanna try?



Yeh. Really wanna try!


----------



## handwander

palestofwhite said:


> Any chance you'll be trying it out yourself to give us some comments?
> 
> Looks like a JDM only product... so probably won't be available to us locally to demo...


If they have them at e-e next time I go, I'll try! 

Be prepared for "well they were okay but they are no panda pk2s" statement to mask my inability to afford them.


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> Is the Kube still available?  I saw a photo that showed it in purple..
> 
> Is the one in the photo yours?  Did you recable it?



yes, i bought it new and recabled by the seller. the Kubes are still readily available on local markets


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> yes, i bought it new and recabled by the seller. the Kubes are still readily available on local markets



I don't think I can buy them anywhere.  What do you find special about them.  You do have many nice choices..


----------



## waynes world

redkingjoe said:


> At yen50,000, ATH is putting a lot into the new earbuds!



And whomever buys them will be putting a lot of $$$ into them!


----------



## Blueshound24

redkingjoe said:


> The ATH-CM2000ti seems very attractive! That high end diamond like carbon driver is what most earbuds are missing! At yen50,000, ATH is putting a lot into the new earbuds!





A little spendy.

53,870JPY
476.72USD


----------



## seanc6441

Blueshound24 said:


> A little spendy.
> 
> 53,870JPY
> 476.72USD


A lot spendy!


----------



## chaiyuta

@handwander : Did you try it yet? It will start selling around the next week, isn't it?


----------



## rkw (Oct 9, 2018)

palestofwhite said:


> Quite interesting of them to print the L/R indicators on the mesh itself.


That is very interesting indeed. It implies that left and right ear pieces are not meant to be interchangeable, but none of the images show any asymmetry between them.


----------



## golov17 (Oct 9, 2018)

hatranle said:


> Hi guys, I plan to buy Blox TM9 but can not decide between 2.5mm and 3.5mm. Any one using 2.5mm and give me your impression and advice. Tks


My unbalanced pair on customs house now.. soon


----------



## Danneq

palestofwhite said:


> Any chance you'll be trying it out yourself to give us some comments?
> 
> Looks like a JDM only product... so probably won't be available to us locally to demo...



I'll give 'em a try in 1 year. Just wait a bit!


----------



## silverfishla (Oct 9, 2018)

The reviewer HawaiiBadBoy (you guys know him) just trashed the Shozy BK.  Lovers here might want to give him a spark!  hahaha


----------



## waynes world

silverfishla said:


> The reviewer HawaiiBadBoy (you guys know him) just trashed the Shozy BK.  Lovers here might want to give him a spark!  hahaha




That's interesting. I wonder if he got a defective pair?


----------



## gazzington

I've always fancied shozy bk but not so sure now. Maybe a rose masya or black ling......


----------



## waynes world

I was pointed to another audio site where the comments regarding the Datura X were pretty negative. I really enjoy them for falling asleep with while listening to trance. I hadn't really tried them out with other genres, and I still haven't except for with my favorite torture track Paranoid Android. Yup, on that track the Datura X's highs are a bit painful (splashy and harsh). In comparison the Svara L (32ohm)'s highs were well controlled, albeit close to being too bright (on that track). The easiest to listen to were the Willsound Mk2 rev2 - made for Paranoid Android lol.

I really like the Datura X's for trance, but if you are listening to music with a lot of treble, ymmv.


----------



## csglinux

waynes world said:


> That's interesting. I wonder if he got a defective pair?


The BKs are still my favorite buds. I don't hear any veil on mine.


----------



## gazzington

csglinux said:


> The BKs are still my favorite buds. I don't hear any veil on mine.


Maybe they didn't fit his ear well?


----------



## handwander

chaiyuta said:


> @handwander : Did you try it yet? It will start selling around the next week, isn't it?


Nyope, will see if they are in store next time I visit.


----------



## Forty6 (Oct 9, 2018)

It's always difficult or had that lack of confidence in buying such diy / amateur made earbuds especially when it's something cost over a hundred or several hundreds usd dollar earbud .
Unlike big brand names phones which is readily available for proper audition at the local friendly audio store .
These diy / amateur made earbud is nearly impossible to do a proper audit before purchasing .
Unless someone around you had own one and let you had a go with it before anything  or the seller are based at where you are , if not most of the purchase of such ear buds are based on reviewer reviews or mouth to mouth recommendation etc .

It's equally to a blind purchase actually without testing it , even though the product had been highly rated among user there's still that bit of risk which after parting your money for the product , in the end the product may not suit your taste at all , unfortunately this is one of the downside and it's going to be like this , unless seller can appoint agents or dealers with their products in different countries .

Even when it comes to venture electronics products , be it hi end or low end priced , they're products are no where easier to access for audition before purchasing , still need to rely on mouth to mouth recommendation , user hands on impression etc .. in order to build up a certain amount of confidence first before purchasing .

It's more or less about having that confidence really , maybe it's easier to made a buying decision for a $5-20usd purchase , but a lot more different when it comes to purchase things which cost over hundreds or several hundreds usd dollar .


There's plenty of diy / amateur ear buds nowadays which easily cost over hundreds of usd on the market , it's nearly impossible for a normal user like me and many others here to have a seller willing to mail me a pair of their earbud for me to do a proper audition before purchase  .

So I too rely on mouth to mouth recommendation and owner reviews online , but umm so far I got to admit and to be frank the only earbud purchase which did not disappoint me are those comes with VE .
Especially with that 320ohm 178usd earbud , which I had recable .
It's a fxxing good buy and a awesome reasonable priced for a detachable earbud .

Maybe that Hawaii bad boy ought to choose the 178usd earbud a go on his next review .
I think he would love it , Especially it's a potentially basshead earbud after recable and pair it up with a powerful Amp and have it Amp it up


----------



## HungryPanda

I did agree with HBB's take on the Linsoul 150 ohm, I love them


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> I did agree with HBB's take on the Linsoul 150 ohm, I love them



+1. I've been listening to mine quite a bit lately (in the form of the Fengru DIY PK1's) and have been loving them as well


----------



## csglinux

Forty6 said:


> It's always difficult or had that lack of confidence in buying such diy / amateur made earbuds especially when it's something cost over a hundred or several hundreds usd dollar earbud .
> Unlike big brand names phones which is readily available for proper audition at the local friendly audio store .
> These diy / amateur made earbud is nearly impossible to do a proper audit before purchasing .
> Unless someone around you had own one and let you had a go with it before anything  or the seller are based at where you are , if not most of the purchase of such ear buds are based on reviewer reviews or mouth to mouth recommendation etc .
> ...


I totally agree. This talk of custom-made Red Dragons that are tuned to sound like the Utopias is a total turn-off for me. It sounds sketchy on too many levels. Firstly, it's BS marketing. Even if they've somewhat tuned the FR to match that of the Utopia - and even if you wanted your headphones to have a nasty 5 kHz peak, THD, noise and transient response won't match those of an actual Utopia. Plus, I doubt Focal are being paid to license their product name.

Maybe these Red Dragons are awesome to the ears of their current owners, but we all hear things differently. (It was lucky I never recommended the Shozy BK buds to hawaiibadboy - I love them, but obviously he didn't.) Buying any headphones unseen/unheard is a crapshoot, but the Red Dragons look like a really expensive crapshoot.


----------



## silverfishla

Well, HBB doesn’t believe in burn in.  Not that everyone does (I do).  He’s, of course, coming from listening to some really good IEMs.  It’s hard to go from that to appreciating what earbuds have to offer soundwise.  You’ll always be comparing the bass.  Earbuds require a bit of recalculation in how you hear the tracks you’ve heard your whole life in order to appreciate most of them.


----------



## Danneq (Oct 9, 2018)

csglinux said:


> I totally agree. This talk of custom-made Red Dragons that are tuned to sound like the Utopias is a total turn-off for me. It sounds sketchy on too many levels. Firstly, it's BS marketing. Even if they've somewhat tuned the FR to match that of the Utopia - and even if you wanted your headphones to have a nasty 5 kHz peak, THD, noise and transient response won't match those of an actual Utopia. Plus, I doubt Focal are being paid to license their product name.
> 
> Maybe these Red Dragons are awesome to the ears of their current owners, but we all hear things differently. (It was lucky I never recommended the Shozy BK buds to hawaiibadboy - I love them, but obviously he didn't.) Buying any headphones unseen/unheard is a crapshoot, but the Red Dragons look like a really expensive crapshoot.



I owned my pair for over 1 year without having the faintest idea that they were tuned to resemble full size headphones (Senn HD800S). I only learned it about 2 weeks ago when I asked Herry of Cypherus.
Until he told me of 2 more orders for Red Dragon where one wanted his pair to sound like Focal Utopia and the other like Audeze LCD 3, I just thought that the potential of the RD was maximized in regards of the material used and that there was a "set sound" for RD. 

Cypherus or Herry (same thing) has never gone out and claimed anything about Red Dragon in regards to Utopia. It's just users here, like me, that does that. I have no doubt that if there is anyone who can make a pair of earbuds sound like a specific full size headphone, it is Herry. I don't know how he does it, but he does it well. All Cypherus earbuds have a common sound signature of being extended mainly in bass but also in treble without it being sharp or bright in any way. Herry says he aims for an "analogue" sound. That might be interpreted as a sound with treble roll off etc. Acoustic instruments sound exactly like they do in real life and that if one of the main positives about Cypherus buds.

And yeah, we do hear things differently. I do not like to sharp treble, which is why I quickly sold my pair of Rose Mojito. I like Moondrop Liebesleid from a technical aspect, but again, a bit too much focus on upper mids and treble for me. So up for sale they go. I worry a bit about SWD2+ since the treble is described as being a bit bright for some people. That "some people" might be me. But I still have to give them a chance and if I don't like 'em I'll sell them.

There are 2 great Cypherus earbud models for sale - CampFred 2 and ZoomFred, and I would recommend any of them before Red Dragon. RD is a sort of end game earbud for a very small audience.


----------



## RodRevenge

Forty6 said:


> It's always difficult or had that lack of confidence in buying such diy / amateur made earbuds especially when it's something cost over a hundred or several hundreds usd dollar earbud .
> Unlike big brand names phones which is readily available for proper audition at the local friendly audio store .
> These diy / amateur made earbud is nearly impossible to do a proper audit before purchasing .
> Unless someone around you had own one and let you had a go with it before anything  or the seller are based at where you are , if not most of the purchase of such ear buds are based on reviewer reviews or mouth to mouth recommendation etc .
> ...



I totally get your point, for the looks of it most of the earbud enthusiasts live on asia, people over the earbuds anonymous FB group seem have listening parties/ meetings or even borrows so they can audition before purchansing, while i have to wait up to two months to see if i like my purchase, sad life.


----------



## groucho69

gazzington said:


> Maybe they didn't fit his ear well?



He said he din't get a good fit. If you are not going to attempt to get a good fit how can you judge?


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> It's pretty amazing that my $8.39 RY4S w/UE cable, sounds nearly as good as my $108 set of K's 500.



Thanks for that. I just got mine, and they you are right - they are awesome and instant budget king - giant killers imo! 






btw, I really had to suck my gut in for that pic lol!


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 9, 2018)

Danneq said:


> I'll give 'em a try in 1 year. Just wait a bit!


Time to make connections at the local PO, bribe someone high up 


waynes world said:


> That's interesting. I wonder if he got a defective pair?


They just have a tuning that will not be loved by everyone. I kinda agree with his points if I had to use the stock foams with them too. It's after swapping to a combo of thin foams and donuts or just thin foams that these start to sound better.

But again they really do have the thickest low mids in all the earbuds ive heard and it can be perceived as veil and lack of detail in some cases.


----------



## Danneq

seanc6441 said:


> Time to make connections at the local PO, bribe someone high up



It's not THAT bad. It "only" took about 3 weeks from Arlanda customs in the north of Stockholm to my town south of Stockholm...

I meant that I will try the new ATH earbuds out when the family goes to Japan next year, probably in August/September...


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 9, 2018)

csglinux said:


> I totally agree. This talk of custom-made Red Dragons that are tuned to sound like the Utopias is a total turn-off for me. It sounds sketchy on too many levels. Firstly, it's BS marketing. Even if they've somewhat tuned the FR to match that of the Utopia - and even if you wanted your headphones to have a nasty 5 kHz peak, THD, noise and transient response won't match those of an actual Utopia. Plus, I doubt Focal are being paid to license their product name.
> 
> Maybe these Red Dragons are awesome to the ears of their current owners, but we all hear things differently. (It was lucky I never recommended the Shozy BK buds to hawaiibadboy - I love them, but obviously he didn't.) Buying any headphones unseen/unheard is a crapshoot, but the Red Dragons look like a really expensive crapshoot.


I think you misunderstood, herry doesn't market them as 'Utopia' or 'HD800', its simply the buyers who are saying that he attempted to tune them as such (which is pretty awesome right?)


----------



## handwander

If anyone here wins a bs1 experience in the penon giveaway, give it to me! I want the inferior experience not official version.


----------



## HungryPanda

groucho69 said:


> He said he din't get a good fit. If you are not going to attempt to get a good fit how can you judge?


 The Linsoul have PK shells so I don't think fit had anything to do with it


----------



## csglinux

seanc6441 said:


> I think you misunderstood, herry doesn't marked them as 'Utopia' or 'HD800', its simply the buyers who are saying that he attempted to tune them as such (which is pretty awesome right?)


I honestly don't know if that's awesome. There was a reason I sold my Utopias. I do really like the HD800S, but when I want to hear something that sounds like an HD800S, I just use my HD800S.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, every headphone has its flaws. I'd expect a $700+ headphone to forge its own sound and try to be the best it can, given the limitations of its own form factor, and not try to mimic the warts and flaws of something else. But I concede it's a great marketing pitch. I can imagine somebody taking this one step further and selling pot-luck headphones - each of which would come with a randomly-chosen FR. Nobody could write a negative review of your headphones, because the CNET/Verge/Hawaiibadboy units would all be different. Happy days


----------



## bhima

Shozy BK's are in the house (thanks Bavinck for selling them to me!)!

Clearly better than every other earbud I own. Better instrument placement, better air, better detail and better soundstage. BUT, in terms of actual frequency response, the BKs have a peak in the 4-6K region that makes them peaky. Personally, the Yincrow RW-777 portrays the frequency range better than these Shozys even if they don't have quite the detail. I'd rather have slightly smoother resolution if it means no annoying 4-6K chi-fi peak. I need some better Equalizer APO skills to really target and fix this. Anyone know of a good tutorial for it?


----------



## mochill

Selling my TM9 , need money .pm me if in the usa


----------



## iron2k

mochill said:


> Selling my TM9 , need money .pm me if in the usa


2.5mm???


----------



## mochill

3.5mm


----------



## iron2k

mochill said:


> 3.5mm


 thanks


----------



## wazzupi

Best earbuds/iem I've ever heard. Nicehck eb2.


----------



## csglinux

bhima said:


> Shozy BK's are in the house (thanks Bavinck for selling them to me!)!
> 
> Clearly better than every other earbud I own. Better instrument placement, better air, better detail and better soundstage. BUT, in terms of actual frequency response, the BKs have a peak in the 4-6K region that makes them peaky. Personally, the Yincrow RW-777 portrays the frequency range better than these Shozys even if they don't have quite the detail. I'd rather have slightly smoother resolution if it means no annoying 4-6K chi-fi peak. I need some better Equalizer APO skills to really target and fix this. Anyone know of a good tutorial for it?


Mine don't have much of a peak anywhere. They're about the most neutral of all the buds I own. Maybe the manufacturing tolerances aren't that tight between units? (BTW, I'm using ToneKing thin donut foams on my BK buds.)


----------



## Danneq

RD cannot really be compared to other earbuds since it's 100% order made and adapted to the buyers wishes. Herry has made other custom earbuds before, one was called "Silver warrior" (love that name).
Unlike CAX Black edition and White CampFred ($300+ TOTL earbuds from Cypherus) the custom earbuds appear to not have a fixed sound etc.

So they will be more of a mythical "earbud to rule all other earbuds" rather than a TOTL earbud that people save up for. I would never have ordered RD myself but they sort of fell into my lap and when I had a chance to buy them second hand I could not refuse. Also, I do not want full size headphones and look for such sounds in earbuds.

The main focus of Cypherus is the "regular" series of earbuds such as CampFred 2 and ZoomFred and the occational limited series such as CAX Black (around 10 pairs made in total) and White CampFred (around 5 pairs made). I'm looking forward to what might come after ZoomFred.

This discussions feels a bit silly just like the "fake Oyaide connector discussion" a week or so ago...


----------



## tim0chan

silverfishla said:


> The reviewer HawaiiBadBoy (you guys know him) just trashed the Shozy BK.  Lovers here might want to give him a spark!  hahaha



Tbvh his review style does not agree with me. He comes off as not thorough


----------



## mochill

iron2k said:


> thanks


Your welcome


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> I don't think I can buy them anywhere.  What do you find special about them.  You do have many nice choices..



they sound good for the money, fairly balanced mids and treble, with a good deep subbass and less midbass than the Vido. overall i like the tuning better than vido. not to mention they look great

i think the best way to do it is asking rholupat to buy it and send it, or for instance when buying from willsound and ask a favor to buy it also


----------



## chinmie

silverfishla said:


> The reviewer HawaiiBadBoy (you guys know him) just trashed the Shozy BK.  Lovers here might want to give him a spark!  hahaha




can't say he's to blame, he does come from listening to a lot of IEMs. when i switch from IEMs to earbuds, i also would find earbuds in general sounded veiled and unsparkly, turn the situation around, going from earbuds, IEMs would always sound hollow on the mids. i bet the Mojito would be great for him

also the BK has a differing sound from each unit (i have heard almost 10 of them and the sound is slightly different from each other). the first batch seems to be the best sounding. 



waynes world said:


> I was pointed to another audio site where the comments regarding the Datura X were pretty negative. I really enjoy them for falling asleep with while listening to trance. I hadn't really tried them out with other genres, and I still haven't except for with my favorite torture track Paranoid Android. Yup, on that track the Datura X's highs are a bit painful (splashy and harsh). In comparison the Svara L (32ohm)'s highs were well controlled, albeit close to being too bright (on that track). The easiest to listen to were the Willsound Mk2 rev2 - made for Paranoid Android lol.
> 
> I really like the Datura X's for trance, but if you are listening to music with a lot of treble, ymmv.



i listen to OK computer with the Liebesleid...pure treble goodness 

Let Down is a great track to test the mids detail of earphones. if you can hear what Thom's saying, then the earphones have good mids


----------



## Forty6 (Oct 9, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> I think you misunderstood, herry doesn't market them as 'Utopia' or 'HD800', its simply the buyers who are saying that he attempted to tune them as such (which is pretty awesome right?)



I guess you totally misunderstood me my point . I did not refer or in any way specific the red dragon you're referring  or single out any other DIY / amateur tuned  earbud ( except for VE earbud ) .

Not only the red dragon pair you had  preach about , but many many others diy, amateur tuned earbuds out there have a asking price beyond hundred of usd per pair .
There's a price to pay and I had paid my school fees .
I had found out that 1 very obvious fact is that the Zen ear bud which marketed and sell by VE are the only one ear bud which impressed me the most with my preference  of genres of music and what to expect in a earbud performance.

Mind you I'm not out to badmouth or to discredit diys amateur tuners in anyway . In fact i had been supporting my local diys amateur projects by purchasing from them more than any other countries tuners , because of what I had pointed out earlier which is quite impossible for me to conduct a proper audit first before making any of the purchase. 
There's just too many good reviews of earbud out there , and it's hard for a guy like me to do a pay first audit later thingy , I did not had a deep pocket so my purchase is always done in a very cautious way


----------



## CyberGhost

gazzington said:


> Anybody know the sound difference in these compared to the original?



So anything on Rose Masya vs Rose Masya Pro?


----------



## chinmie

Forty6 said:


> It's always difficult or had that lack of confidence in buying such diy / amateur made earbuds especially when it's something cost over a hundred or several hundreds usd dollar earbud .
> Unlike big brand names phones which is readily available for proper audition at the local friendly audio store .
> These diy / amateur made earbud is nearly impossible to do a proper audit before purchasing .
> Unless someone around you had own one and let you had a go with it before anything  or the seller are based at where you are , if not most of the purchase of such ear buds are based on reviewer reviews or mouth to mouth recommendation etc .
> ...



what earbud are you referring to? the Zen 2 detachable? 



csglinux said:


> I totally agree. This talk of custom-made Red Dragons that are tuned to sound like the Utopias is a total turn-off for me. It sounds sketchy on too many levels. Firstly, it's BS marketing. Even if they've somewhat tuned the FR to match that of the Utopia - and even if you wanted your headphones to have a nasty 5 kHz peak, THD, noise and transient response won't match those of an actual Utopia. Plus, I doubt Focal are being paid to license their product name.
> 
> Maybe these Red Dragons are awesome to the ears of their current owners, but we all hear things differently. (It was lucky I never recommended the Shozy BK buds to hawaiibadboy - I love them, but obviously he didn't.) Buying any headphones unseen/unheard is a crapshoot, but the Red Dragons look like a really expensive crapshoot.



true. if had not a community of friends where i could test many earbuds before purchasing, i might still be sticking to the sub $50. the southeast asian DIYs are also more varied and confusing. i haven't tried the Moonbuds and Blurs for instance (well i only tried one, the Blur Choco) because they're not popular among my group of friends. I'm not saying they're not good, but only pointing out that no one took the plunge to try them. add to the fact that these DIYs have a wildly inconsistent sound. i only stick to builders that have high consistency sound in their batch products and have a high rate of positive reviews


----------



## bhima

csglinux said:


> Mine don't have much of a peak anywhere. They're about the most neutral of all the buds I own. Maybe the manufacturing tolerances aren't that tight between units? (BTW, I'm using ToneKing thin donut foams on my BK buds.)



There are clear peaks at 1500, 3000, 4000-5000 and 9000. At least i heard them on mine when i cchecked a frequency sweep. My K7xx are more neutral, but damn the detail, texture and note timbre on these bks are awesome. I suck at EQing. Always scrw with note timbre too much trying to reduce peaks.


----------



## ClieOS

chinmie said:


> also the BK has a differing sound from each unit (i have heard almost 10 of them and the sound is slightly different from each other). the first batch seems to be the best sounding.



Might have to do with the fact that Shozy ran out of that particularly good cable used on the original batch and they have to source a slightly different cable on later batch.


----------



## ClieOS

CyberGhost said:


> So anything on Rose Masya vs Rose Masya Pro?



Will be getting the custom version of the Masya Pro, hopefully sooner than later.


----------



## theresanarc

wskl said:


> Take a look at the Toneking ROS1, around $25-30.
> 
> There is also a size comparison in these 2 links (1) and (2)



Where did you buy this for $25? I don't even see it being sold on AE or DHGate or Gearbest. 

Also, does anyone know how the Auglamour RX1 compares? It's also 14mm-ish and under $30.


----------



## wskl

theresanarc said:


> Where did you buy this for $25? I don't even see it being sold on AE or DHGate or Gearbest.
> 
> Also, does anyone know how the Auglamour RX1 compares? It's also 14mm-ish and under $30.



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...-Vocal-Earbud-With-OFC-Cable/32844776793.html


----------



## seanc6441

Forty6 said:


> I guess you totally misunderstood me my point . I did not refer or in any way specific the red dragon you're referring  or single out any other DIY / amateur tuned  earbud ( except for VE earbud ) .
> 
> Not only the red dragon pair you had  preach about , but many many others diy, amateur tuned earbuds out there have a asking price beyond hundred of usd per pair .
> There's a price to pay and I had paid my school fees .
> ...


Are you just completey pulling my quote out of context? I didn't even reply to you with that comment.


----------



## redkingjoe

waynes world said:


> And whomever buys them will be putting a lot of $$$ into them!



#wannacry


----------



## Forty6

seanc6441 said:


> Are you just completey pulling my quote out of context? I didn't even reply to you with that comment.



Yeah my bad , mistaken .


----------



## Forty6 (Oct 10, 2018)

chinmie said:


> what earbud are you referring to? the Zen 2 detachable?
> 
> 
> 
> true. if had not a community of friends where i could test many earbuds before purchasing, i might still be sticking to the sub $50. the southeast asian DIYs are also more varied and confusing. i haven't tried the Moonbuds and Blurs for instance (well i only tried one, the Blur Choco) because they're not popular among my group of friends. I'm not saying they're not good, but only pointing out that no one took the plunge to try them. add to the fact that these DIYs have a wildly inconsistent sound. i only stick to builders that have high consistency sound in their batch products and have a high rate of positive reviews



Yes was referring to that 178usd detachable Zen.
Playing good music on my dap , but sound lagI Kuat being pushed by a amp .
178usd well spend, totally worth every cents spent on it with another recable.

And I briefly try it with a pricey cooper wires , Man that was really warmth and smooth on the Zoe , but unfortunately it was just a brief test out without pairing up with the amp , just with a player . 
Amping makes a lot more difference on the zens though.


----------



## 40760

Forty6 said:


> Yes was referring to that 178usd detachable Zen.
> Playing good music on my dap , but sound lagI Kuat being pushed by a amp .
> 178usd well spend, totally worth every cents spent on it with another recable.
> 
> ...



The ZOE is really great with the optional 102ssc Oyaide cable. That being said, I used it for about a week and liked them so much, that I traded up to a Zen 2.0 Black Edition. Still eagerly waiting for it to arrive.


----------



## Forty6

palestofwhite said:


> The ZOE is really great with the optional 102ssc Oyaide cable. That being said, I used it for about a week and liked them so much, that I traded up to a Zen 2.0 Black Edition. Still eagerly waiting for it to arrive.



Huh? Trade up ? Trade with who ?


----------



## 40760

Forty6 said:


> Huh? Trade up ? Trade with who ?



Was talking to Lee and he offered.


----------



## Forty6

palestofwhite said:


> Was talking to Lee and he offered.



That was kind for him to do , he's one exceptional guy in this business, a frank and chatty character and most importantly a very honest person , imo you should have kept the Zoe and go for the zen black in the next order .
There's so much options to play with the detachable version


----------



## 40760

Forty6 said:


> That was kind for him to do , he's one exceptional guy in this business, a frank and chatty character and most importantly a very honest person , imo you should have kept the Zoe and go for the zen black in the next order .
> There's so much options to play with the detachable version



I needed to try for myself and see what the black edition was all about. That being said, I have a feeling I might get another ZOE sometime in the future, as a spare.

I really like how VE tuned their stuff, and the fact that the original Monks brought me back to earbuds was very nostalgic and works well for me.


----------



## Forty6

palestofwhite said:


> I needed to try for myself and see what the black edition was all about. That being said, I have a feeling I might get another ZOE sometime in the future, as a spare.
> 
> I really like how VE tuned their stuff, and the fact that the original Monks brought me back to earbuds was very nostalgic and works well for me.



Tuning , drivers are the same , with a different shell , cardas cable make most of the sonic difference in the Zen , now that I got the Zoe , like you had experience,  the black zen is on my next purchase for sure .
A very addictive ear bud .


----------



## KevDzn

palestofwhite said:


> I really like how VE tuned their stuff, and the fact that the original Monks brought me back to earbuds was very nostalgic and works well for me.



Yup! Same here. The VE Monks completely changed my very low perception of earbuds. I have not touch my headphones and iems for a very long time now.


----------



## wazzupi

What's a good next step up from nicehck eb2 ? Under 200 bucks preferred.


----------



## handwander (Oct 10, 2018)

Did anyone actually end up buying the HYCK100?

These also look interesting but unbought  
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...-earphone-HiFi-earpiece-with/32851072703.html


----------



## ClieOS

handwander said:


> Did anyone actually end up buying the HYCK100?



Pretty sure I am one of the first to get it when it was first released as HY1000 almost a year ago, way before it was randomly renamed as HYCK100 by Ali seller. Also note that it now has two versions: one is said to have tuned for female vocal while the one is said to be more balanced.


----------



## DatClampTho

palestofwhite said:


> I needed to try for myself and see what the black edition was all about. That being said, I have a feeling I might get another ZOE sometime in the future, as a spare.
> 
> I really like how VE tuned their stuff, and the fact that the original Monks brought me back to earbuds was very nostalgic and works well for me.



Get a ZOE used just to mess with cables. I kinda wish I waited to get a ZOE used since they seem to pop up fairly often for cheapish. However I am glad I got mine new for the Zen LL and I'm sure I'll want to use the VE loyalty points toward something in the future... because I totally fell into the VE trap. Monk+ to Monk Lite SPC 120 to RA+(with Zen Lite) to ZOE(with Zen LL) and I love every single product. I can't take the ZOE with the 102ssc out of my ears.


----------



## Forty6

wazzupi said:


> What's a good next step up from nicehck eb2 ? Under 200 bucks preferred.



My recommended would be the 178usd zen2.0 omega edition .
Also you can get another upgrade cable for the omega at 50% disc , and you're entitled with a pair of ZenLL earbud for free as well , 
A very good deal and pricing for a TOTL earbud with freebies .
Where to find such good deals? 
With the omega you got the freedom to play with the sound with different wires.


----------



## 40760

DatClampTho said:


> Get a ZOE used just to mess with cables. I kinda wish I waited to get a ZOE used since they seem to pop up fairly often for cheapish. However I am glad I got mine new for the Zen LL and I'm sure I'll want to use the VE loyalty points toward something in the future... because I totally fell into the VE trap. Monk+ to Monk Lite SPC 120 to RA+(with Zen Lite) to ZOE(with Zen LL) and I love every single product. I can't take the ZOE with the 102ssc out of my ears.



I really like the ZOE with 102ssc cables. In fact I feel that VE should make the Zen 2.0 in this cable configuration as a default, instead of the regular red cables.


----------



## Drohun (Oct 10, 2018)

Hi guys!

Im selling one of my favourite and very rare earbud headset! Sennheiser OMX980

The reason for the sale is that I have 2 of them, so I would like to give one to someone else to experience how a top-class 2010 earbud sounds like.

From its sound briefly: detailed, analytic, with good dynamics, easy to drive, can sound good from any source. You can find measurements on the internet (mx980/985 measurements).

Personal Review: I really love them because of its precision and accuracy, this is why I want to keep one. Obviously it's not a typical traveling headset(i prefer in-ears outside)or fun character, but if you have the chance to listen to an acoustic, classical or jazz material in silent court, you do not need to look forward imho.

Hearings are possible: in Győr or sometimes in Budapest after consultation (possibly Debrecen, Nyíregyháza) - In Hungary...Sorry

The box is completely unopened, it contains everything that has been added at the factory: leather holder, 2 pairs of fittings, air converter ...

PM me for the price, its a subject of discussion. Please feel free to contact me privately if you have any questions about this product.

You can also found me at facebook in famous earbud lover groups. Cheers!

u.i.: specifications are the same as the mx980-985 earphones.


----------



## groucho69

HungryPanda said:


> The Linsoul have PK shells so I don't think fit had anything to do with it



His words, not mine.


----------



## Ziggomatic

May I go fishing for any TO600 impressions out there? 

I'm currently enjoying my TO400 very much, so of course thinking of finding something similar, but better (I have a brain disease).


----------



## bhima

OK, this is another case of just how much the foams you use impact everything about the sound of your earbud. I just got some Hiegi donut foams from Amazon and have replaced my thin full foams on the Shozy BK. Removes the peaks completely. It makes the bass a bit too thick, and the soundstage/imaging is a bit smaller with the Hiegi's. Still, it makes the BKs much more laid back. Now if I could get that laid back while retaining that soundstage haha!


----------



## Dubusal (Oct 10, 2018)

Forty6 said:


> It's always difficult or had that lack of confidence in buying such diy / amateur made earbuds especially when it's something cost over a hundred or several hundreds usd dollar earbud .
> Unlike big brand names phones which is readily available for proper audition at the local friendly audio store .
> These diy / amateur made earbud is nearly impossible to do a proper audit before purchasing .
> Unless someone around you had own one and let you had a go with it before anything  or the seller are based at where you are , if not most of the purchase of such ear buds are based on reviewer reviews or mouth to mouth recommendation etc .
> ...



The sympathizer. I also do not buy reviews of anyone.
Here I met a Korean who came to know herry and bought zoomfred for the first time.
The moment I listened to zoomfred, I was already sending herry a mail.
And talking to him, I had to order a red dragon.
I wanted a utopia and he wanted to challenge. And I decided to challenge myself.



csglinux said:


> I totally agree. This talk of custom-made Red Dragons that are tuned to sound like the Utopias is a total turn-off for me. It sounds sketchy on too many levels. Firstly, it's BS marketing. Even if they've somewhat tuned the FR to match that of the Utopia - and even if you wanted your headphones to have a nasty 5 kHz peak, THD, noise and transient response won't match those of an actual Utopia. Plus, I doubt Focal are being paid to license their product name.
> 
> Maybe these Red Dragons are awesome to the ears of their current owners, but we all hear things differently. (It was lucky I never recommended the Shozy BK buds to hawaiibadboy - I love them, but obviously he didn't.) Buying any headphones unseen/unheard is a crapshoot, but the Red Dragons look like a really expensive crapshoot.



I was originally a headphone user.
I had a lot of headphones, but now what I have left is a single old headphone called the akg k271s.
I am very interested in iem. However, if iem is used for a long time, I do not have expensive iem because the headache comes. My friends have expensive and good sounding products. I also have ebx, liebeslide, zoomfred, and dragon2 + that sound good, but I do not think the sound I can get from a premium full-size headphone is yet to be heard.
I know the sounds. I always go and listen to new products whenever I come to Korea.
On the surface, my Red Dragon looks really funny and cheap. But I decided to believe herry once, and after the sound of $ 1000, I would be satisfied with the sound of Red Dragon(utopia).


----------



## Dubusal (Oct 10, 2018)

Danneq said:


> I owned my pair for over 1 year without having the faintest idea that they were tuned to resemble full size headphones (Senn HD800S). I only learned it about 2 weeks ago when I asked Herry of Cypherus.
> Until he told me of 2 more orders for Red Dragon where one wanted his pair to sound like Focal Utopia and the other like Audeze LCD 3, I just thought that the potential of the RD was maximized in regards of the material used and that there was a "set sound" for RD.
> 
> Cypherus or Herry (same thing) has never gone out and claimed anything about Red Dragon in regards to Utopia. It's just users here, like me, that does that. I have no doubt that if there is anyone who can make a pair of earbuds sound like a specific full size headphone, it is Herry. I don't know how he does it, but he does it well. All Cypherus earbuds have a common sound signature of being extended mainly in bass but also in treble without it being sharp or bright in any way. Herry says he aims for an "analogue" sound. That might be interpreted as a sound with treble roll off etc. Acoustic instruments sound exactly like they do in real life and that if one of the main positives about Cypherus buds.
> ...




I'm your fan. You're one of the people that made me make Red Dragon Utopia.
I totally agree with you.
For those of you who are interested in Red Dragon, listen to Baby dragon(Zoomfred), a popular entry-level device later than the Red Dragon.

If you listen to Zoomfred, you will want to order or buy a Red Dragon like me.


----------



## DBaldock9

Over the last few months, I've purchased a few earbuds that have very good overall performance -
1.) Wong Kuan Wae "Blur hALF/hALF" (2.5TRRS, 150Ω)
2.) NiceHCK EBX (MMCX, 32Ω)
3.) Svara-L (MMCX, 32Ω)
4.) RYGMR RY4S (UE cable, 32Ω)

The least expensive one is the RY4S, and it really impresses me with it's great quality & quantity of low Bass, without Mid-Bass "booming" (using a donut foam over a full foam).  The Midrange is not recessed, which is what usually seems to happen on earbuds with strong Bass.
The Svara-L (32Ω) and the NiceHCK EBX (32Ω) seem to have similar audio performance. The EBX may have a bit more Bass, but the Svara-L has a little better fit & seal on my ears.
The "Blur hALF/hALF" has the great Midrange & Treble of my earlier "Blur 魔音" (2.5TRRS, 300Ω) earbuds, with the added benefit of more low Bass, that's still fast and natural sounding.  The "Blur 魔音" has great quality of Bass, but not as much quantity.


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm listening to some electronic/techno music right now withe Svara-L's in my ears and the bass is powerful with mids and highs crystal clear


----------



## handwander

Interested in Svara-l but unsure about fit. Afraid of anything non-yuin shell at this point.

Interested in the EBX as well but the Svara-l pricing is probably the most I'd be willing to risk on a 'blind buy'. Not interested in EBX prices or above when my picky ears might dislike them.


----------



## HungryPanda

The Svara-L's are worn over ear so sit quite firmly


----------



## csglinux

DBaldock9 said:


> Over the last few months, I've purchased a few earbuds that have very good overall performance -
> 1.) Wong Kuan Wae "Blur hALF/hALF" (2.5TRRS, 150Ω)
> 2.) NiceHCK EBX (MMCX, 32Ω)
> 3.) Svara-L (MMCX, 32Ω)
> 4.) RYGMR RY4S (UE cable, 32Ω)


So which is your favorite?!?



HungryPanda said:


> The Svara-L's are worn over ear so sit quite firmly



Hi @HungryPanda - I appreciated your recommendation on the T0200 - they were/are really great earbuds. Very good quality mmcx cable too, which could justify the price alone. Just curious, how do the TO200 compare to these Svara-L's?


----------



## DBaldock9 (Oct 10, 2018)

handwander said:


> Interested in Svara-l but unsure about fit. Afraid of anything non-yuin shell at this point.
> 
> Interested in the EBX as well but the Svara-l pricing is probably the most I'd be willing to risk on a 'blind buy'. Not interested in EBX prices or above when my picky ears might dislike them.



Out of the earbuds in my collection, which cost between $30 - $60, the Svara-L (32Ω) is my favorite for sound quality while listening to music.

1.) OurArt Ti7 - (MMCX, 32Ω), [$59.00]
2.) Svara-L - (MMCX, 115Ω), [$54.00]
3.) MusicMaker ToneKing TO200 - (MMCX, 200Ω), [$50.00]
4.) Svara-L - (MMCX, 32Ω), [$49.68]  *EDIT: NOTE - The price has gone up since I bought mine...*
5.) Daik DK-Song - (MMCX, 16Ω), [$46.95]
6.) VE Monk Plus Espresso - (2.5TRRS, 64Ω), [$30.00]
7.) NiceHCK DIY Graphene (2017) - (20Ω), [$29.53]


----------



## HungryPanda

csglinux said:


> So which is your favorite?!?
> 
> 
> 
> Hi @HungryPanda - I appreciated your recommendation on the T0200 - they were/are really great earbuds. Very good quality mmcx cable too, which could justify the price alone. Just curious, how do the TO200 compare to these Svara-L's?


 The Svara-L's have a stronger bass that goes a little deeper and highs that roll off more than the TO200


----------



## handwander

HungryPanda said:


> The Svara-L's are worn over ear so sit quite firmly





DBaldock9 said:


> Out of the earbuds in my collection, which cost between $30 - $60, the Svara-L (32Ω) is my favorite for sound quality while listening to music.
> 
> 1.) OurArt Ti7 - (MMCX, 32Ω), [$59.00]
> 2.) Svara-L - (MMCX, 115Ω), [$54.00]
> ...



Any idea how the 'depth' or thickness of the Svara compares to Yuin or MX500s? 

I think I've narrowed down overall bud thickness over diameter as the main point of comfort for me. Looking at pk2s (comfortable) vs [banned seller name] tank (not comfortable), the diameter of the shell isn't that different..








but there is a noticeable different in the overall depth





So I think I need to go for as thin as possible lol.


----------



## chinmie

DBaldock9 said:


> Out of the earbuds in my collection, which cost between $30 - $60, the Svara-L (32Ω) is my favorite for sound quality while listening to music.
> 
> 1.) OurArt Ti7 - (MMCX, 32Ω), [$59.00]
> 2.) Svara-L - (MMCX, 115Ω), [$54.00]
> ...



is that list in order of favorite?


----------



## HungryPanda

PK shell v Svara-L


----------



## handwander

Hm that looks promising. Can you do an MX500 comparison quickly?

Stop making me spend money hungry panda.


----------



## HungryPanda

MX500 v Svara-L


----------



## handwander

Thanks! This shot is the most promising in terms of it possibly being in the pk shell realm of comfort for me. 


HungryPanda said:


> PK shell v Svara-L


----------



## chinmie

handwander said:


> Any idea how the 'depth' or thickness of the Svara compares to Yuin or MX500s?
> 
> I think I've narrowed down overall bud thickness over diameter as the main point of comfort for me. Looking at pk2s (comfortable) vs [banned seller name] tank (not comfortable), the diameter of the shell isn't that different..
> 
> ...



from that photo, looks like the Tank have similar diameter to MX500 shells. the Svara is about the same like MX500, might be slightly larger in diameter, but a lot thinner.

with Yuin Shell
 

with MX500 shell


----------



## handwander

chinmie said:


> from that photo, looks like the Tank have similar diameter to MX500 shells. the Svara is about the same like MX500, might be slightly larger in diameter, but a lot thinner.
> 
> with Yuin Shell
> 
> ...


Thanks! Looks like they would be great for me. Diameter is whatever but the thinness of the in ear part looks good. Hard to say with certainty but I'm much more willing to buy those now.


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> I'm listening to some electronic/techno music right now withe Svara-L's in my ears and the bass is powerful with mids and highs crystal clear





DBaldock9 said:


> Out of the earbuds in my collection, which cost between $30 - $60, the Svara-L (32Ω) is my favorite for sound quality while listening to music.
> 
> 1.) OurArt Ti7 - (MMCX, 32Ω), [$59.00]
> 2.) Svara-L - (MMCX, 115Ω), [$54.00]
> ...



Always nice to have partners is Svara L hype! I really do love them. Although now I am totally distracted by RY4S budget awesomesauce lol.


----------



## DBaldock9

chinmie said:


> is that list in order of favorite?



No, that list is in order of descending price.

For sound preference, the list would probably be:
1.) Svara-L - (MMCX, 32Ω), [$49.68]
2.) MusicMaker ToneKing TO200 - (MMCX, 200Ω), [$50.00]
3.) OurArt Ti7 - (MMCX, 32Ω), [$59.00]
4.) NiceHCK DIY Graphene (2017) - (20Ω), [$29.53]
5.) Daik DK-Song - (MMCX, 16Ω), [$46.95]
6.) VE Monk Plus Espresso - (2.5TRRS, 64Ω), [$30.00]
7.) Svara-L - (MMCX, 115Ω), [$54.00]


----------



## chinmie

DBaldock9 said:


> No, that list is in order of descending price.
> 
> For sound preference, the list would probably be:
> 1.) Svara-L - (MMCX, 32Ω), [$49.68]
> ...



wow, you make so much distance between the Svaras that it made me curious about the 32ohm version! 
how do you compare them two and what makes you favor the 32 to the 115?


----------



## bhima

handwander said:


> Thanks! Looks like they would be great for me. Diameter is whatever but the thinness of the in ear part looks good. Hard to say with certainty but I'm much more willing to buy those now.



You and I have the same fit sensibilities. My Yincrow rw-777 do not fit right even though its diameter is smaller than my shozy bk. its all about thickness for me as well. The Svara definitely looks promising.


----------



## DBaldock9

chinmie said:


> wow, you make so much distance between the Svaras that it made me curious about the 32ohm version!
> how do you compare them two and what makes you favor the 32 to the 115?



The 115Ω model has a lot of Bass & Mid-Bass, but the Midrange & Treble are recessed.
The 32Ω model has good, tight Bass, without the booming Mid-Bass; and it has clear Midrange & Treble.


----------



## chinmie

DBaldock9 said:


> The 115Ω model has a lot of Bass & Mid-Bass, but the Midrange & Treble are recessed.
> The 32Ω model has good, tight Bass, without the booming Mid-Bass; and it has clear Midrange & Treble.



thanks! i might get this on my next purchase


----------



## snip3r77

DBaldock9 said:


> No, that list is in order of descending price.
> 
> For sound preference, the list would probably be:
> 1.) Svara-L - (MMCX, 32Ω), [$49.68]
> ...



I thought ry4s ue cable will be in this list


----------



## Matarro

chinmie said:


> from that photo, looks like the Tank have similar diameter to MX500 shells.



The Tank really is so round in it's shape that it's like trying to fit a light bulb into your ear. A shame since I kind of like the sound.


----------



## activatorfly

waynes world said:


> Always nice to have partners is Svara L hype! I really do love them. Although now I am totally distracted by RY4S budget awesomesauce lol.


My RY4S are being delivered any minute now - bring on the awesomeness! lol


----------



## snip3r77

activatorfly said:


> My RY4S are being delivered any minute now - bring on the awesomeness! lol


Awaiting your impression too


----------



## activatorfly

snip3r77 said:


> Awaiting your impression too


Listening to them now - mind-blowing for £7! - using ES100 as a DAC there appears to be quite a lot of EQ headroom.

Switching over to Sony NW-ZX300A they're equally impressive - conveying a wide soundstage, with an energetic mid-centric signature, underpinned with good quantity/quality of sub-bass and bass ( - fast and tight attack without boom.)

They undoubtedly require a few hours burn-in to smooth out spikes in the initial treble response - but imho RY buds do seem to source excellent cheap drivers!


----------



## DBaldock9

snip3r77 said:


> I thought ry4s ue cable will be in this list



For sound quality, the RY4S is better than a lot on that list, but I was answering a question from someone who was asking about a specific price range of earbuds - which happened to be ~3x more expensive than the RY4S.


----------



## activatorfly

DBaldock9 said:


> For sound quality, the RY4S is better than a lot on that list, but I was answering a question from someone who was asking about a specific price range of earbuds - which happened to be ~3x more expensive than the RY4S.


I couldn't agree more!...great build quality & UE cable - colour me impressed!


----------



## iron2k

DBaldock9 said:


> For sound quality, the RY4S is better than a lot on that list, but I was answering a question from someone who was asking about a specific price range of earbuds - which happened to be ~3x more expensive than the RY4S.


Soundwise, what would be your top ten?


----------



## fairx

Ry4s been in my cart for quite so time. Guess it's time to revisit the cart. 

And... Just paid. The UE cable looks promising but the HI plug look sweet  .


----------



## DBaldock9

iron2k said:


> Soundwise, what would be your top ten?



Well, my tastes tend to vary, depending on source, and usage - but out of 30+ earbuds, I guess I tend to listen to these the most:

01.) Wong Kuan Wae "Blur hALF/hALF" (2.5TRRS, 150Ω)
02.) K's 500-Ohm v2 (2.5TRRS, 500Ω)
03.) Wong Kuan Wae "Blur 魔音" (2.5TRRS, 300Ω)
04.) NiceHCK EBX (MMCX, 32Ω)
05.) Svara-L (MMCX, 32Ω)
06.) RYGMR RY4S (3.5mm TRS UE cable, 32Ω)
07.) MusicMaker ToneKing TO200 (MMCX, 200Ω)
08.) VE Asura 2.0 (2.5TRRS, 150Ω)
09.) PT15 (2017) (MMCX, 32Ω)
10.) MusicMaker ToneKing TP16 (3.5mm TRS, 32Ω)


----------



## activatorfly

fairx said:


> Ry4s been in my cart for quite so time. Guess it's time to revisit the cart.
> 
> And... Just paid. The UE cable looks promising but the HI plug look sweet  .


I'm sure the quality of the UE cable helps with transparency! - these buds are truly wonderful!


----------



## activatorfly (Oct 11, 2018)

DBaldock9 said:


> Well, my tastes tend to vary, depending on source, and usage - but out of 30+ earbuds, I guess I tend to listen to these the most:
> 
> 01.) Wong Kuan Wae "Blur hALF/hALF" (2.5TRRS, 150Ω)
> 02.) K's 500-Ohm v2 (2.5TRRS, 500Ω)
> ...


Nice entry at No.6 - The Prisoner stylee! ..... " I am not a number! I am a free man!".. haha!


----------



## iron2k

DBaldock9 said:


> Well, my tastes tend to vary, depending on source, and usage - but out of 30+ earbuds, I guess I tend to listen to these the most:
> 
> 01.) Wong Kuan Wae "Blur hALF/hALF" (2.5TRRS, 150Ω)
> 02.) K's 500-Ohm v2 (2.5TRRS, 500Ω)
> ...


Great, thanks


----------



## Narayan23

activatorfly said:


> I'm sure the quality of the UE cable helps with transparency! - these buds are truly wonderful!



I got the non UE version and the sound quality for the price is extraordinary, perhaps just a little too bright (for my taste) in the beginning but they are starting to even out, I do find the detail and separation welcome when listening to dialogues in movies, bass is also darn good and I totally agree with your opinion further up. These have me thinking of getting a replacement pair, maybe with UE cable although I doubt I could hear the difference.

When I first read DBaldock9´s post praising them I thought: "fcuk me here we go again, another relapse in my for the love of God try not to buy anything for a long while therapy" but I want to thank him heartily for the recomendation, these buds are great.


----------



## waynes world

Narayan23 said:


> When I first read DBaldock9´s post praising them I thought: "fcuk me here we go again, another relapse in my for the love of God try not to buy anything for a long while therapy" but I want to thank him heartily for the recomendation, these buds are great.



How is it possible that we had the EXACT SAME inner dialogue lol!


----------



## DBaldock9

Today at work, I've got my RYGMR RY4S connected to the 3.5mm output (Muses02) of my Zishan DSD (AK4497), streaming the Irish & Celtic Music Podcast from YouTube...


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> Well, my tastes tend to vary, depending on source, and usage - but out of 30+ earbuds, I guess I tend to listen to these the most:
> 
> 01.) Wong Kuan Wae "Blur hALF/hALF" (2.5TRRS, 150Ω)
> 02.) K's 500-Ohm v2 (2.5TRRS, 500Ω)
> ...



Bookmarked! Thanks


----------



## daid1

Please link of the RYGMR RY4S with Ue cable


----------



## wazzupi

My eb2s started making crackling noises when there is midbass present to a certain frequency anything i can do because returning this crap is going to be a mission i might not want to do.


----------



## activatorfly

daid1 said:


> Please link of the RYGMR RY4S with Ue cable


Enjoy!
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4...211.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3da24c4d4Dzy8M


----------



## waynes world

wazzupi said:


> My eb2s started making crackling noises when there is midbass present to a certain frequency anything i can do because returning this **** is going to be a mission i might not want to do.



Take off the foam, and then suck on the bud. Surprisingly that seems to fix the driver flex.


----------



## activatorfly

wazzupi said:


> My eb2s started making crackling noises when there is midbass present to a certain frequency anything i can do because returning this **** is going to be a mission i might not want to do.


Not had any issues so far....


----------



## iron2k

activatorfly said:


> Enjoy!
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4...211.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3da24c4d4Dzy8M


Select any of these 2


----------



## waynes world

activatorfly said:


> Enjoy!
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4...211.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3da24c4d4Dzy8M



... color options 3 and 4

edit: yeah, like iron2k says!


----------



## wazzupi

activatorfly said:


> Not had any issues so far....


It was working great i don't know if i did something but overall my favorite iem/earbud this is making me want to spend more money now haha


----------



## activatorfly

waynes world said:


> How is it possible that we had the EXACT SAME inner dialogue lol!


Sometimes, I guess you just gotta give in to the inner voice - RY4S with UE cable (now that they've smoothed out are divine!) - a total no-brainer!


----------



## activatorfly

wazzupi said:


> It was working great i don't know if i did something but overall my favorite iem/earbud this is making me want to spend more money now haha


Try sucking gently on the faceplate grille on the shells - i.e. the fix Wayne suggested above...keep us posted if it works?!


----------



## activatorfly

It would be great to hear a direct comparison of the RY4S with RY04 (with uber cool IE800 style cable!) - apparently they have a darker signature?


----------



## Narayan23

daid1 said:


> Please link of the RYGMR RY4S with Ue cable



https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...211.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.a9541e7aaeR26c

When you choose colour, numbers 3 and 4 are the ones with UE cable, not sure if the white cable ones are in that category also.


----------



## mbwilson111

activatorfly said:


> Sometimes, I guess you just gotta give in to the inner voice - RY4S with UE cable (now that they've smoothed out are divine!) - a total no-brainer!



Mine arrived a few hours ago.  Getting ready to try them now


----------



## HungryPanda

My new buds arrived too, RY G500 300 ohm with UE braided cable 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/GM5...phone-MX500-style-earphone-3/32843161170.html


----------



## mbwilson111

activatorfly said:


> It would be great to hear a direct comparison of the RY4S with RY04 (with uber cool IE800 style cable!) - apparently they have a darker signature?



I have had the RY04 for over a year.  I like it but someone called it bass anemic.  I just find it to be a detailed and balanced sound.  Very addictive for me.

I am only one song into my new RY4S so I am not going to try to compare today... or tomorrow   But no, the RY04 is not dark.

There were never many posts about it but this is the one that encouraged me to try it.  He also mentions the RY4S but that would have been an early one with the old type cable.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1266#post-13349120


----------



## activatorfly (Oct 11, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Mine arrived a few hours ago.  Getting ready to try them now


Awesome...obvs give them a few hours burn-in - It'll be great to hear your opinion compared to RY04.  - at least they won't break the bank! Haha


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 11, 2018)

activatorfly said:


> Awesome...obvs give them a few hours burn-in - It'll be great to hear your opinion compared to RY04. They'll be a great addition to Swing IE800 - & at least they won't break the bank! Haha



I usually burn things in for at least two days continuously ... sometimes up to a week.  Can't say I ever notice a difference but others do so...

These RY4S are sounding pretty big straight out of my Cayin N3.   Listening to Dave Alvin's Ashgrove album...one that I am extremely familiar with plus I have seen him live both solo and with full band... in a 400 seat venue.


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> I have had the RY04 for over a year.  I like it but someone called it bass anemic.  I just find it to be a detailed and balanced sound.  Very addictive for me.
> 
> I am only one song into my new RY4S so I am not going to try to compare today... or tomorrow   But no, the RY04 is not dark.
> 
> ...


Ok thanks! - It's awesome that ATi7500 is underwhelmed by RY4S.....just about to order RY04 before finishing thi.......


----------



## mbwilson111

activatorfly said:


> Ok thanks! - It's awesome that ATi7500 is underwhelmed by RY4S.....just about to order RY04 before finishing thi.......



I think you will get more than your 3 pound worth...


----------



## activatorfly (Oct 11, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I think you will get more than your 3 pound worth...


Indubitably! RY just can't be beaten for value!


----------



## mbwilson111

This is the RY04 that I have... totally different shell than the RY4S.


----------



## activatorfly

I opted for the champagne gold finish.


----------



## mbwilson111

activatorfly said:


> I opted for the champagne gold finish.



The color choice probably does not matter... foams will cover that part.  I put black foams on most of mine.


----------



## toear

waynes world said:


> How is it possible that we had the EXACT SAME inner dialogue lol!


......... me three.....


----------



## rkw

wazzupi said:


> My eb2s started making crackling noises when there is midbass present to a certain frequency anything i can do because returning this **** is going to be a mission i might not want to do.


Contact Jim NiceHCK through the "Contact Seller" messaging on your order. Vendors often don't really want the product back, and may send you a replacement if you provide proof (pics or video) of destroying the item you received.


----------



## DBaldock9

activatorfly said:


> I opted for the champagne gold finish.



It's interesting how much they look like some earbuds (no longer available) that I ordered from Penon Audio in 2016, for my Dad.
.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY...-Audiophile-Earphone-Earbuds/32651127312.html


----------



## Danneq

waynes world said:


> Take off the foam, and then suck on the bud. Surprisingly that seems to fix the driver flex.



This is what in other words is called "Head fi foreplay".


----------



## Narayan23

HungryPanda said:


> My new buds arrived too, RY G500 300 ohm with UE braided cable
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/GM5...phone-MX500-style-earphone-3/32843161170.html



Once you have spent some time with them it would be very interesting to read what your thoughts are and how they compare to the RY4S.


----------



## wazzupi

Welp blowing into them fixed it which is an awesome crazy fix hahaha


----------



## vetsin (Oct 11, 2018)

Hi! I was sent here from the IEM thread and started reading your recommendations. It's already 3:30am on my part of the world and after reading comments trying to decide what to buy, I realized that you guys are a bunch of enablers. haha I got so confused, you're buying everything! Anyway looks like I'm ready to buy the RY4S given the price and your feedback.

Now, what I'm really looking for is neutral/flat sounding earbuds with a large soundstage. Does the EB2 fit that bill? What else should I consider? Thanks!


----------



## HungryPanda

vetsin said:


> Hi! I was sent here from the IEM thread and started reading your recommendations. It's already 3:30am on my part of the world and after reading comments trying to decide what to buy, I realized that you guys are a bunch of enablers. haha I got so confused, you're buying everything! Anyway looks like I'm ready to buy the RY4S given the price and your feedback.
> 
> Now what I'm looking for is neutral/flat sounding earbuds with a large soundstage. Does the EB2 fit that bill? What else should consider? Thanks!


 I would recommend Linsoul BLD150 and Toneking T200


----------



## activatorfly

vetsin said:


> Hi! I was sent here from the IEM thread and started reading your recommendations. It's already 3:30am on my part of the world and after reading comments trying to decide what to buy, I realized that you guys are a bunch of enablers. haha I got so confused, you're buying everything! Anyway looks like I'm ready to buy the RY4S given the price and your feedback.
> 
> Now, what I'm really looking for is neutral/flat sounding earbuds with a large soundstage. Does the EB2 fit that bill? What else should I consider? Thanks!


The RY4S are quite sufficient tbh!


----------



## activatorfly

wazzupi said:


> Welp blowing into them fixed it which is an awesome crazy fix hahaha


Nice one!


----------



## vetsin

HungryPanda said:


> I would recommend Linsoul BLD150 and Toneking T200


Thanks! Toneking added to candidates.


----------



## vetsin

activatorfly said:


> The RY4S are quite sufficient tbh!


Really? I know you have EB2, RY4S and TO200.  
So I should just save the money for something better?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Damn you guys! Chalk me up as another RY4S UE victim.


----------



## waynes world

BadReligionPunk said:


> Damn you guys! Chalk me up as another RY4S UE victim.



Hehe good to get them now for $10 before they realize their mistake and jack them up to $100


----------



## wazzupi

I too bought the ry4s ue i kinda like the blue with that cable color... Lol I should probably buy 2 more pairs just incase...

Ps whats the size comparison between the eb2 and ry4s ue shell wise ?


----------



## snip3r77

daid1 said:


> Please link of the RYGMR RY4S with Ue cable



Select 3 and 4
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4...e-MX500-style-earphone-3-5mm/32820438211.html


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 11, 2018)

vetsin said:


> Really? I know you have EB2, RY4S and TO200.
> So I should just save the money for something better?


Yes 

See we don't always have to be enablers 

Enjoy your RY4s and save yo money for the next purchase. Wait for 11.11 sales maybe, good deals at that time.


----------



## snip3r77

seanc6441 said:


> Yes
> 
> See we don't always have to be enablers
> 
> Enjoy your RY4s and save yo money for the next purchase. Wait for 11.11 sales maybe, good deals at that time.



How is EB2 vs RY4S UE Cable ?


----------



## activatorfly

vetsin said:


> Really? I know you have EB2, RY4S and TO200.
> So I should just save the money for something better?


My TO200 have become sidelined....personally, I prefer to rotate EB2, **** PT25 & RY4S - they're totally addictive...the notion of "something better" is incredibly subjective - imho more expensive doesn't guarantee the optimum signature!


----------



## vetsin

Ow... You should have replied sooner. I already clicked the pay button! Haha I'm too weak... 



seanc6441 said:


> Yes
> 
> See we don't always have to be enablers
> 
> Enjoy your RY4s and save yo money for the next purchase. Wait for 11.11 sales maybe, good deals at that time.


----------



## vetsin

activatorfly said:


> My TO200 have become sidelined....personally, I prefer to rotate EB2, **** PT25 & RY4S - they're totally addictive...the notion of "something better" is incredibly subjective - imho more expensive doesn't guarantee the optimum signature!



Well... Thanks for the advise. Curiosity got the better of me. Hehe
The damage from the TO200 is not too bad so...


----------



## HungryPanda

The Toneking TO200's are great earbuds


----------



## activatorfly

snip3r77 said:


> How is EB2 vs RY4S UE Cable ?


Just A/B'd both pairs with same sound source RY4S UE are becoming more holophonic after one days use...so they're the front-runner of the above trio.


----------



## seanc6441

Well I just bought another earbud I probably don't need but must hear lol. All you guys hyping the Ry4S. You all suck!


----------



## seanc6441

activatorfly said:


> Just A/B'd both pairs with same sound source RY4S UE are becoming more holophonic after one days use...so they're the front-runner of the above trio.


Yes many people saying burn in helps... A lot.

Now someone needs to try their $13-15 150 and 300 GM earbuds... From the same official RY store.

I would but I'm officially broke atm lol


----------



## vetsin

HungryPanda said:


> The Toneking TO200's are great earbuds



I look forward to getting them!  I don't have anything with that impedance and I want to test my LG V20 so its a good chance.


----------



## chinmie

i can vouch for the RY4S, my brother have and like it very much, i tried it and it does have a great sound, but i never seem to make a purchase because i thought i already have enough...but all this talk about RY4S...i want to purchase some for backup and gifts for my nieces and nephews. i won't give my son as he only likes using headphones 

by the way @HungryPanda , how's the RY G500 300 ohm sound?


----------



## activatorfly (Oct 11, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Yes many people saying burn in helps... A lot.
> 
> Now someone needs to try their $13-15 150 and 300 GM earbuds... From the same official RY store.
> 
> I would but I'm officially broke atm lol


Burn-in doesn't take too long - they're more transparent now - revealing a very "airy" soundstage - remarkable for the price!...Don't fret I'm broke too...& pulled the trigger on two other pairs this evening! haha!


----------



## HungryPanda (Oct 11, 2018)

Well I've been listening to the RY G500 300 ohms tonight and have to say they are rather good. I was listening to some hard hitting electronic music and the bass was full and and powerful, highs and mids sounded fine. I put on my Fostex T60RP's and they sounded weak in comparison. They are not as good as my K's 500's but the K's 500 are way more expensive. They get a good recommendation from me.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 11, 2018)

activatorfly said:


> Burn-in doesn't take too long - they're more transparent now - revealing a very "airy" soundstage - remarkable for the price!...Don't fret I'm broke too...& pulled the trigger on two other pairs this evening! haha!



In other news I also received the  acrolink OCC and OCC - pure silver cable in the post today. So now I've got all the parts to start my project.

The cable is very nice, it's a little stiff as it's teflon coated for durability but the diameter is under 1mm so its thim enough to maintain flex especially when i did a test braid on some. Feels similar to the cable used on my K's Ling.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 11, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> Well I've been listening to the RY G500 300 ohms tonight and have to say they are rather good. I was listening to some hard hitting electronic music and the bass was full and and powerful, highs and mids sounded fine. I put on my Fostex T60RP's and they sounded weak in comparison. They are not as good as my K's 500's but the K's 500 are way more expensive. They get a good recommendation from me.


Are they a step up from the Ry4s once amped? Quick comparision between the two would be nice


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> Are they a step up from the Ry4s once amped? Quick comparison between the two would be nice


Ditto!


----------



## HungryPanda

I don't have nor have heard the RY4s


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Are they a step up from the Ry4s once amped? Quick comparision between the two would be nice



i suspect that they would not sound similar. i don't know if they're using similar/same drivers, but the 300 ohm from most builder that I've tried would have a warmer sound less bass, more airy soundstage but a rather forward/intimate player position compared to the 32 ohm based drivers. RY4S if my memory's correct sounded like EMX500 and Vido school of sound (big closed headphone-like sound) 

but this is all my wild guess, i could be (horribly) wrong


----------



## activatorfly (Oct 11, 2018)

chinmie said:


> i suspect that they would not sound similar. i don't know if they're using similar/same drivers, but the 300 ohm from most builder that I've tried would have a warmer sound less bass, more airy soundstage but a rather forward/intimate player position compared to the 32 ohm based drivers. RY4S if my memory's correct sounded like EMX500 and Vido school of sound (big closed headphone-like sound)
> 
> but this is all my wild guess, i could be (horribly) wrong


I'd say they're more-like open headphones - being more akin to closed when you cover the rear vents.


----------



## snip3r77

activatorfly said:


> Just A/B'd both pairs with same sound source RY4S UE are becoming more holophonic after one days use...so they're the front-runner of the above trio.



WOW... one doesn't need to spend a lot for good earbuds. Are these the new sub$10 champion?


----------



## snip3r77

seanc6441 said:


> Well I just bought another earbud I probably don't need but must hear lol. All you guys hyping the Ry4S. You all suck!



I'm sorry bro


----------



## snip3r77

seanc6441 said:


> Yes many people saying burn in helps... A lot.
> 
> Now someone needs to try their $13-15 150 and 300 GM earbuds... From the same official RY store.
> 
> I would but I'm officially broke atm lol




Definitely burn in helps as these are Dynamic drivers, put in at least 50 hours


----------



## handwander

Going to pass on buying anything until 11.11 and hopefully the Svaras are on sale.


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> I don't have nor have heard the RY4s


Shocked... Thought you owned all the sub budget mx500 earbuds in existance


----------



## Zerohour88

vetsin said:


> I look forward to getting them!  I don't have anything with that impedance and I want to test my LG V20 so its a good chance.



The Toneking earbuds are surprisingly sensitive despite being high-impedance, I run the TO180 through my USB DAC and its actually more sensitive than my old NiceHCK Graphenes. Toneking definitely knows how to tune their earbuds, making me salivate for their TO600 now

hence not clicking that "buy now" button for the R4YS since already aiming for 11.11 of either NiceHCK EBX, K's 300/Samsara, or the Svara-L Pro


----------



## activatorfly

snip3r77 said:


> WOW... one doesn't need to spend a lot for good earbuds. Are these the new sub$10 champion?


Hands down....


----------



## nxnje

In your humble opinion, if i have small ears and can't stand the AGPTEK m20 ones, but the old Pioneer SE-CE11 fit me well, which earbud can i buy under 5$, saw many earbuds have that price.
This just because i want to introduce myself in the earbuds as i always use IEMs


----------



## gazzington

What's the equipment on black and white lings like? I'm either getting one of those a bk or rose masya.


----------



## vetsin

Just a quick question guys, when you are talking MX500 and PK2 you are mostly referring to the size of the shell for ear fit right?
MX500 is from Sennheiser and is the larger of the two? PK2 is from Yuin?


----------



## HungryPanda

@vetsin that is correct


----------



## snip3r77

HungryPanda said:


> @vetsin that is correct


So generally 2 types of mold?


----------



## gattari

Anyone with a Rose Masya Pro?


----------



## activatorfly

gattari said:


> Anyone with a Rose Masya Pro?


Are they much of an upgrade over the original?


----------



## wazzupi

Is there a proper way to insert earbuds are they suppose to sit facing the canal or just facing the wall of your ear? do they slightly have to be snug closer to your ear canal  ?


----------



## HungryPanda

People wear them differently


----------



## RodRevenge

wazzupi said:


> Is there a proper way to insert earbuds are they suppose to sit facing the canal or just facing the wall of your ear? do they slightly have to be snug closer to your ear canal  ?


It depends on you, in my case i can tilt forward the right one to face my ear canal while i wear the left one facing the wall of my ear because apparently my left ear is tighter, it works fine for me, i get a good sound


----------



## RevPizzaguy

activatorfly said:


> Burn-in doesn't take too long - they're more transparent now - revealing a very "airy" soundstage - remarkable for the price!...Don't fret I'm broke too...& pulled the trigger on two other pairs this evening! haha!



How are the RY4S with UE cable compared to the DIY EMX500's with that same style of cable?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...ass-Earbuds-DJ-Earbuds-Heavy/32789344867.html


----------



## mbwilson111

wazzupi said:


> Is there a proper way to insert earbuds are they suppose to sit facing the canal or just facing the wall of your ear? do they slightly have to be snug closer to your ear canal  ?



I wear them however I can get them in... usually part of it is tucked under the tragus.   The exact angle and fit depends on the individual bud.  It is a bit more fiddly for me than putting in an iem (once I have chosen the best tip for it)


----------



## fairx

My ry4s already departing warehouse. Hopefully it can reach me before leave for holidays end of this month.

I will be comparing ry4s with my T-music v2. Listened to my v2 last night. Sound soo good with Zishan z1 and cheap redmi note 3 pro phone. Hard hitting and very controlled bass. In fact everything is in control. However it doesn't pair well with my iPhone 6. Still good but bit thin.


----------



## mbwilson111

fairx said:


> My ry4s already departing warehouse. Hopefully it can reach me before leave for holidays end of this month.
> 
> I will be comparing ry4s with my T-music v2. Listened to my v2 last night. Sound soo good with Zishan z1 and cheap redmi note 3 pro phone. Hard hitting and very controlled bass. In fact everything is in control. However it doesn't pair well with my iPhone 6. Still good but bit thin.



I love my T-Music V2!  Not going to try to make an actual comparison though... just want to enjoy both


----------



## fairx

mbwilson111 said:


> I love my T-Music V2!  Not going to try to make an actual comparison though... just want to enjoy both


 haha of course I enjoy most of my earbud and rotate them periodically.. Just wanna compare. Might be useful info for others too.


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> I love my T-Music V2!  Not going to try to make an actual comparison though... just want to enjoy both


Kinda glad they have a high shipping cost!! lol


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 12, 2018)

activatorfly said:


> Kinda glad they have a high shipping cost!! lol



I did not pay that.  I  had a friend in the USA get them for me and send them with some other stuff that I wanted.

Since then another seller has turned up that does give free shipping... I will try to find it and then edit this post.
When I bought mine I did not have that option.

@activatorfly here it is... just the blue cable... I love the blue cable with the glossy black shell.  My T-music one was $10 when I ordered it last spring.  Then when I found out about this one it was actually less expensive at the time.  Not sure what is going on with prices.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HiF...t-Head-Plug-Balance-Earphone/32878228760.html


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> I did not pay that.  I  had a friend in the USA get them for me and send them with some other stuff that I wanted.
> 
> Since then another seller has turned up that does give free shipping... I will try to find it and then edit this post.
> When I bought mine I did not have that option.


Cool thanks! - like the look of the black cable version.


----------



## fairx

Inntakhifi already raised the price of v2 since my last order. Too bad many of my friends missed the chance to buy when they lower the price one last time before increasing. Hope they will settle the price or some other seller might pop up and make offer.


----------



## Silverstorm Nuce

Can you guys tell me the differences between FAAEAL Snow lotus 1.0,1.0+ and 2.0? I'm so confused  Which version has best sound quality? Thanks


----------



## BrunoC

fairx said:


> Inntakhifi already raised the price of v2 since my last order. Too bad many of my friends missed the chance to buy when they lower the price one last time before increasing. Hope they will settle the price or some other seller might pop up and make offer.



I noticed that sometimes they raise the price quite a bit. But no worries, It'll be cheaper again sometime. You just need to check that out often, and believe me it's worthy.
I have the T-Music v1 and v2 and love both. Great value.


----------



## fairx

BrunoC said:


> I noticed that sometimes they raise the price quite a bit. But no worries, It'll be cheaper again sometime. You just need to check that out often, and believe me it's worthy.
> I have the T-Music v1 and v2 and love both. Great value.


Yes.. I visit their store just now and notice new v1s? . Anybody tried that one yet?


----------



## seanc6441

nxnje said:


> In your humble opinion, if i have small ears and can't stand the AGPTEK m20 ones, but the old Pioneer SE-CE11 fit me well, which earbud can i buy under 5$, saw many earbuds have that price.
> This just because i want to introduce myself in the earbuds as i always use IEMs


Under $5? You get mostly MX500 shell like Vido earbuds and monk plus. Under $15 you get much more options.

If you want a comfortable shell like pk shell with good sound I don't know any under $5


----------



## lowendtheory77

bavinck said:


> You guys really need to get into trying Moonbuds. I got the nightshade and am seriously impressed. It's a bit of a leaner sound in comparision to TM9, and the technicalities are excellent.





privateKIMI said:


> Has anyone gotten their hands on the Bejo V2
> I currently am a proud owner of the first iteration for Bejo but soon it'll be sold off since someone was interested in it then found out they released the V2.
> 
> Almost made the purchase but I don't want to limit my choice since I've also been eyeing for the VUNBUD and the Willsound PK32.



I have it, and i LOVE IT,  hoping to do a review soon


----------



## bhima

Oh man... I might pull the trigger on those RY4S. But I really need to ask myself if its even possible that I would use them over my Shozy BKs. This freaking hobby...


----------



## waynes world

bhima said:


> Oh man... I might pull the trigger on those RY4S. But I really need to ask myself if its even possible that I would use them over my Shozy BKs. This freaking hobby...



They might be handy for times that you don't want to risk losing/destroying your BKs (paddleboarding for example!)


----------



## mbwilson111

bhima said:


> Oh man... I might pull the trigger on those RY4S. But I really need to ask myself if its even possible that I would use them over my Shozy BKs. This freaking hobby...



If you don't use them, you can gift them   Someone would be very happy.   It could be you....


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> They might be handy for times that you don't want to risk losing/destroying your BKs (paddleboarding for example!)




I would not want to risk losing or destroying my RY4S!


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> I would not want to risk losing or destroying my RY4S!



Gotta have good tunes and sound when out paddleboarding! And I'd rather risk $8 RY4S's than Svara L's or Willsounds etc.


Spoiler


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Gotta have good tunes and sound when out paddleboarding! And I'd rather risk $8 RY4S's than Svara L's or Willsounds etc.
> 
> 
> Spoiler



Did you take that gorgeous photo?  Not sure I would need tunes with a view like that... just the sounds of nature


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> Did you take that gorgeous photo?  Not sure I would need tunes with a view like that... just the sounds of nature



Yeah, that was a few weeks ago - getting a bit cool for it now 

I like the sounds of nature as well. I have this playing when I am paddleboarding 



Spoiler


----------



## seanc6441

bhima said:


> Oh man... I might pull the trigger on those RY4S. But I really need to ask myself if its even possible that I would use them over my Shozy BKs. This freaking hobby...


It's very possible, i have some cheap buds that perform better than expensive ones in certain genres or aspects.


----------



## CyberGhost

seanc6441 said:


> Pk2 is between bk and cygnus more leaning towards bk tonality but brighter and slightly less fine detail in bass and mids. Bass isn't quite is emphasised as cygnus but has more control. Bk has both control and enough emphasis. Pk2 mids are leaner than Cygnus and bk but more detail than cygnus. Treble is morr emphasised than both bk and cygnus, treble is quite nice.
> 
> Pk2 needs a long burn in and picky with foams so it can sound good with fine tuning for vocal and acoustic, but it can sound pretty dull and lifeless out of the box. Atleast that was my experience with both my pk2s I owned.
> 
> ...



I'd like to confirm Sean's findings. I got my Cygnus and compared it to my PK2. PK2 has clearer sound, with better treble, while Cygnus sounds "fuller" in the mids (but not cleaner), with maybe a better bass. Personally I prefer PK2 because I like treble and clarity.

I've pretty much scratched BK off my list because of its lack of treble and what many report as veiled sound. Now I am wondering how would PK1 and OK1 compare? To Cygnus and PK2. I've read that Cygnus is better and cleaner than PK1, but then PK2 is clearer than Cygnus and PK1 is supposed to be clearer than PK2 ~confused~.

I am also waiting for Masya that I bought as per Sean's advice, I wonder how those are.


----------



## seanc6441

CyberGhost said:


> I'd like to confirm Sean's findings. I got my Cygnus and compared it to my PK2. PK2 has clearer sound, with better treble, while Cygnus sounds "fuller" in the mids (but not cleaner), with maybe a better bass. Personally I prefer PK2 because I like treble and clarity.
> 
> I've pretty much scratched BK off my list because of its lack of treble and what many report as veiled sound. Now I am wondering how would PK1 and OK1 compare? To Cygnus and PK2. I've read that Cygnus is better and cleaner than PK1, but then PK2 is clearer than Cygnus and PK1 is supposed to be clearer than PK2 ~confused~.
> 
> I am also waiting for Masya that I bought as per Sean's advice, I wonder how those are.


Masya is very clear and has extended treble, bass is light unless your source has more than 1 ohm OI which gives a considerable boost to how full the bass is on the Masya.

What is your source player for these earbuds?


----------



## CyberGhost

seanc6441 said:


> Masya is very clear and has extended treble, bass is light unless your source has more than 1 ohm OI which gives a considerable boost to how full the bass is on the Masya.
> 
> What is your source player for these earbuds?



I use this DAC connected to my laptop:
https://hifimediy.com/DACs/ready-made-dacs/Sabre-9018-DAC


----------



## seanc6441

CyberGhost said:


> I use this DAC connected to my laptop:
> https://hifimediy.com/DACs/ready-made-dacs/Sabre-9018-DAC


Hmm cannot find the output impedance spec for it. If it's too high the masya will sound a bit veiled unless you use thin foams or no foams. If its under 1 ohm the masya will be bright andclear but bass light. I prefer somewhere around 3-4 ohm for the masya as it sounds exceptionally balanced then.

It's a very picky earbud because of its super low impedance.


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Gotta have good tunes and sound when out paddleboarding! And I'd rather risk $8 RY4S's than Svara L's or Willsounds etc.
> 
> 
> Spoiler



i use those waterproof Sony WS 413 for swimming and water sports. it's a weird and unique sensation being submerged with music playing in your ears


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> Hmm cannot find the output impedance spec for it. If it's too high the masya will sound a bit veiled unless you use thin foams or no foams. If its under 1 ohm the masya will be bright andclear but bass light. I prefer somewhere around 3-4 ohm for the masya as it sounds exceptionally balanced then.
> 
> It's a very picky earbud because of its super low impedance.



Spec said SABRE9601 on the output stage - if HiFimeDIY designed the DAC according to ESS spec (they usually do), then output impedance should be around 4.7 ohm.


----------



## snip3r77

ClieOS said:


> Spec said SABRE9601 on the output stage - if HiFimeDIY designed the DAC according to ESS spec (they usually do), then output impedance should be around 4.7 ohm.


I’m using a sdac plus o2 atm. Very value for $.


----------



## bhima

CyberGhost said:


> I'd like to confirm Sean's findings. I got my Cygnus and compared it to my PK2. PK2 has clearer sound, with better treble, while Cygnus sounds "fuller" in the mids (but not cleaner), with maybe a better bass. Personally I prefer PK2 because I like treble and clarity.
> 
> I've pretty much scratched BK off my list because of its lack of treble and what many report as veiled sound. Now I am wondering how would PK1 and OK1 compare? To Cygnus and PK2. I've read that Cygnus is better and cleaner than PK1, but then PK2 is clearer than Cygnus and PK1 is supposed to be clearer than PK2 ~confused~.
> 
> I am also waiting for Masya that I bought as per Sean's advice, I wonder how those are.


The BK do not lack treble in the slightest. They are brighter than my AKG K7XX, and more refined in the treble than ever other earbud I own. I use the thin foams with them so YMMV. I do notice the treble smooths out quite a bit if I'm using Heigi donuts. I don't think the BKs are intended for them imo.


----------



## exavolt

New model from OURART?

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ver-MMCX-HiFi-Earbud/1994049_32948171928.html


----------



## handwander

"titanium crystal"


----------



## KevDzn (Oct 13, 2018)

Silverstorm Nuce said:


> Can you guys tell me the differences between FAAEAL Snow lotus 1.0,1.0+ and 2.0? I'm so confused  Which version has best sound quality? Thanks



I have the snow lotus 1.0 and 1.0+.
Between those 2, snow lotus 1.0+ is by far more better sound wise. Bass is deep, mids are not recessed and treble is just right. Soundstage is wide. I did not get the snow lotus 2.0 so no comments on it.


----------



## ClieOS

handwander said:


> "titanium crystal"



It is the same kind of titanium diaphragm used on Ti7, just tuned differently. Aa the name suggested, it is mainly for ACG music.


----------



## exavolt

ClieOS said:


> It is the same kind of titanium diaphragm used on Ti7, just tuned differently. Aa the name suggested, it is mainly for ACG music.


How are these ACG-focused headphones different from headphones designed for general listening? I thought that many of anime and game musics are ordinary songs.


----------



## ClieOS (Oct 13, 2018)

exavolt said:


> How are these ACG-focused headphones different from headphones designed for general listening? I thought that many of anime and game musics are ordinary songs.



Just ACG music in general, in the context of what Chinese typically classify the genre, we are talking about female Japanese vocal with mainly fast electronic music. Usually the prefer sound signature for this type of music is mild U-shaped, bright with good bass. Now this is not to say the ACG earbud will have this sound signature, but just a general observation.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 13, 2018)

bhima said:


> The BK do not lack treble in the slightest. They are brighter than my AKG K7XX, and more refined in the treble than ever other earbud I own. I use the thin foams with them so YMMV. I do notice the treble smooths out quite a bit if I'm using Heigi donuts. I don't think the BKs are intended for them imo.


For me it's a dip in the upper mids compared to its very full lower mids that lends it a slightly below neutral tonality in the mids. The raised peaks in the treble gives it air, which to me is where the dry tonality comes from. I'd say the treble is neutralish with some peaks, but not overly bright.

But shozy intended the bk to be used with the stock foams which are very close to heigi donuts and do give a warmer, smoother sound at the expense of neutrality. I find they do sound more veiled with the thick donuts.


----------



## bavinck

DBaldock9 said:


> Well, my tastes tend to vary, depending on source, and usage - but out of 30+ earbuds, I guess I tend to listen to these the most:
> 
> 01.) Wong Kuan Wae "Blur hALF/hALF" (2.5TRRS, 150Ω)
> 02.) K's 500-Ohm v2 (2.5TRRS, 500Ω)
> ...


Hey friend, 
You should consider moonbuds. I have the nightshade and love it.


----------



## mochill

What is moonbud


----------



## iron2k

mochill said:


> What is moonbud


https://www.facebook.com/MoonbudsOfficial/


----------



## seanc6441

mochill said:


> What is moonbud


Mid-high end earbud range from a diy seller. Never heard one but they look fantastic especially the cables.


----------



## bavinck

seanc6441 said:


> Mid-high end earbud range from a diy seller. Never heard one but they look fantastic especially the cables.


And if you like to change the athletic Moon will take orders that are fairly custom.


----------



## bavinck

mochill said:


> What is moonbud


Awesomeness


----------



## silverfishla

ClieOS said:


> It is the same kind of titanium diaphragm used on Ti7, just tuned differently. Aa the name suggested, it is mainly for ACG music.


I like the old ourart Ti7 buds, but wished they had a bit more bass.  I looked at the specs that compare the new version with the old and saw one spec that made me think that they are using a different driver...it says it uses a super thin driver vs. thin.  So, maybe it’s not just a tuning but a more capable driver.


----------



## bhima (Oct 13, 2018)

bavinck said:


> Awesomeness



Bavnick,

Thanks again for the BKs. How much are the Moonbuds and where do you place them in terms of sound signature compared to the BKs?

I was a little burnt on diy recommendations that said the Willsound pk16 was neutral and great. They just arent worth their $40 unfortunately.


----------



## seanc6441

silverfishla said:


> I like the old ourart Ti7 buds, but wished they had a bit more bass.  I looked at the specs that compare the new version with the old and saw one spec that made me think that they are using a different driver...it says it uses a super thin driver vs. thin.  So, maybe it’s not just a tuning but a more capable driver.


The wording some sellers use isn't too reliable, so it's hard to say.

I agree though, the ourart with a bass boost was very nice (although admittedly the driver wasn't very cable of sub bass extension by pushing the EQ without a noticeable distortion.

I also boosted the highs to form a V shape, the mids were just delicious on the ourart though, very mature detailed tuning.


----------



## bavinck

bhima said:


> Bavnick,
> 
> Thanks again for the BKs. How much are the Moonbuds and where do you place them in terms of sound signature compared to the BKs?
> 
> I was a little burnt on diy recommendations that said the Willsound pk16 was neutral and great. They just arent worth their $40 unfortunately.


I really like the Pk16, but they aren't neutral. They are bright. Bright done really well. 

BK have thicker mids and less controlled/textured bass than nightshade. The nightshade are smooth, not shouty at all. Nightshade are also 500ohms so they are not really buds aimed at the same usage.


----------



## ClieOS

silverfishla said:


> I like the old ourart Ti7 buds, but wished they had a bit more bass.  I looked at the specs that compare the new version with the old and saw one spec that made me think that they are using a different driver...it says it uses a super thin driver vs. thin.  So, maybe it’s not just a tuning but a more capable driver.



By tuning I am not saying it is merely adding/removing or changing the housing a bit here and there. Changing/modding the driver composition (diaphragm, coil, magnet, etc) in a minor degree is also an effective way of tuning, as opposite to using a completely new driver.


----------



## CyberGhost

bhima said:


> The BK do not lack treble in the slightest. They are brighter than my AKG K7XX, and more refined in the treble than ever other earbud I own. I use the thin foams with them so YMMV. I do notice the treble smooths out quite a bit if I'm using Heigi donuts. I don't think the BKs are intended for them imo.



But do they have better (more present) treble than Cygnus?

Because Cygnus is less clear with less treble than PK2.

This guy highlights what I've been reading about BK a lot:


Anybody have experience with PK1 or OK1?


----------



## bavinck

CyberGhost said:


> But do they have better (more present) treble than Cygnus?
> 
> Because Cygnus is less clear with less treble than PK2.
> 
> ...



I, for one, think something goofy is going on with his pair. I often get the same impressions as he does on gear, but the bk I had (and sold) did not sound like he describes.


----------



## Ziggomatic

CyberGhost said:


> Anybody have experience with PK1 or OK1?



I own the Yuin PK1, but I think I lost track of your conversation. If the question is about treble, I would say they have relaxed treble, though it's fairly well extended. The focus of the PK1 sound is in the mids and mid-bass. Very fun with rock music.


----------



## bhima

bavinck said:


> I really like the Pk16, but they aren't neutral. They are bright. Bright done really well.
> 
> BK have thicker mids and less controlled/textured bass than nightshade. The nightshade are smooth, not shouty at all. Nightshade are also 500ohms so they are not really buds aimed at the same usage.



Interesting that you like the PK16. I find their upper-mid sound to have a weird, rounded off effect. Not natural sounding whatsoever, whereas the BKs have a more natural bright upper-mid lower treble presentation. Wow, 500ohms??? Definitely not the same usage  because the PKs run perfectly well off a phone .


----------



## bhima

CyberGhost said:


> But do they have better (more present) treble than Cygnus?
> 
> Because Cygnus is less clear with less treble than PK2.
> 
> ...




I have the exact opposite opinion of this guy BUT, I know exactly why he is saying what he is saying. If you notice, he is using Heigi's donut foams. I too have Heigi's foams, and when used with the BK it completely smoothes over the highs, and the bass starts bleeding into the mids. If he actually tried to use these with thin foams like VE foams or those $0.89 for 100 from Ali Express (these are the ones I use), the sound signature is drastically different. Bass is tight, does not interfere with the mids, the mids are fantastic, the lower highs are good but they are a bit shouty (Bavnick and I agree on this). Upper treble is pretty airy as well.


----------



## doggiemom

mochill said:


> What is moonbud


I received Heron and Hummingbird this week.  I haven't really listened to Hummingbird yet, but listened to Heron for a couple of hours.  Very nice full sound without being too bright.  And they look lovely - they come in nice semi-hard cases that Moon will engrave with your name, and soft cloth pouches that say "Viet Nam."  I like the details such as the Moon logo on the splitter and cable wrap.  All these little touches make Moonbuds look like a premium product.


----------



## bhima

doggiemom said:


> I received Heron and Hummingbird this week.  I haven't really listened to Hummingbird yet, but listened to Heron for a couple of hours.  Very nice full sound without being too bright.  And they look lovely - they come in nice semi-hard cases that Moon will engrave with your name, and soft cloth pouches that say "Viet Nam."  I like the details such as the Moon logo on the splitter and cable wrap.  All these little touches make Moonbuds look like a premium product.



The real question: How much are they?


----------



## doggiemom

For some reason that I don't quite understand, many of the small DIY bud makers (Moonbuds, Cypherus, Blur.....) say "PM for price" when asked, so I guess I should not say?  Moonbuds has 3 tiers of products.  Hummingbird is mid-tier, and Heron is TOTL.  The TOTL are in the range of the high-end Blurs, though not as much expensive as Cypherus.


----------



## doggiemom

Here is a picture of Hummimgbird


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 13, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> I received Heron and Hummingbird this week.  I haven't really listened to Hummingbird yet, but listened to Heron for a couple of hours.  Very nice full sound without being too bright.  And they look lovely - they come in nice semi-hard cases that Moon will engrave with your name, and soft cloth pouches that say "Viet Nam."  I like the details such as the Moon logo on the splitter and cable wrap.  All these little touches make Moonbuds look like a premium product.


I would hope so, the pricing quotes I got for their TOTL buds are very premium pricing... But if the SQ matches the price it seems to be worth it as the earbuds from Moom look amazing.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 13, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> For some reason that I don't quite understand, many of the small DIY bud makers (Moonbuds, Cypherus, Blur.....) say "PM for price" when asked, so I guess I should not say?  Moonbuds has 3 tiers of products.  Hummingbird is mid-tier, and Heron is TOTL.  The TOTL are in the range of the high-end Blurs, though not as much expensive as Cypherus.


I imagine they say it because shipping and different customization options may mean slightly different rates. I don't think you are under any obligation to keep it a secret but its your choice 

Personally I'd rather a seller be transparent about his/her pricing because it makes it easier as a consumer to choose a product. If the rate is variable then say its variable.

"PM for price" gives the impression that its certain rates for certain buyers... Or the seller will boost the price if the item becomes popular.


----------



## ClieOS

bavinck said:


> I, for one, think something goofy is going on with his pair. I often get the same impressions as he does on gear, but the bk I had (and sold) did not sound like he describes.



There are recent report of BK sounding very veil in China as well, and the suspected culprit is either faulty or even fake driver being used (*not unheard of for people to swap out real driver with cheap stuff then resold the earphone as real stuff for a high price, then resold the driver as real replacement for more money). I have heard story from one of the well known earbuds maker that people swapped out driver and sent it back for repair hoping it will be replaced with the real one. Not saying this will be the case here, but it is best to get your more expensive earbuds from a trusted retailer.


----------



## Makahl (Oct 13, 2018)

Professional CIEM companies add enamel coating (or nail polish) as a visual indicator, like that:



>



 So many sellers will refuse to exchange/return if you've soldered the unit since this enamel layer won't be there. After this BK rumor, they should try to adapt something like that.


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> Let Down is a great track to test the mids detail of earphones. if you can hear what Thom's saying, then the earphones have good mids



I just checked that out, and you are most correct! Btw, the RY4S's have good mids


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Well I just bought another earbud I probably don't need but must hear lol. All you guys hyping the Ry4S. You all suck!



Thank you, thank you very much! They are simply, somehow very good. I think you'll like them - but you'll suck if you don't lol!


----------



## snip3r77

Anymore insights of the RY4S with UE Cable


----------



## Themilkman46290

Does anyone have the yinmans? My wife is looking at the 500-600 ohm yinmans, but I don't see reviews can anyone tell me how they sound?


----------



## seanc6441

Themilkman46290 said:


> Does anyone have the yinmans? My wife is looking at the 500-600 ohm yinmans, but I don't see reviews can anyone tell me how they sound?


Use the search function Chinmie gave some very positive impressions on the 600 awhile back.


----------



## miroslav

- Daddy, why do you need so many earbuds?

- Ummm...errrr.. Well, mom is clumsy and when she breaks her earbuds, I'll give her one of these.

- But she hasn't broken her buds yet.

- Go do your homework.

-------------------------------------------------

In other news, of course I couldn't resist ordering those gorgeous RY4S in red for only $4. Thanx for the tip about the UE cable, waynes world. If these turn out to be notably inferior to Snow Lotus 1.0+ and EMX500s there's always another sale at Ali.

Snow Lotus are breaking in rather nicely. They share the warm and impactful sound signature with EMX500s, but they present music in a more speaker-like way, as if you are listening from a couple of rows in the back. It's very relaxing and musical, plus they manage to pull out more details and stronger holographic (?) effects.

With EMX, the feel is more intimate, like you are _inside_ music. The sound is a bit fuller, but also more left to right.

These buds complement each other very well and they both react nicely to EQ, crosfeed, Haas surround and other Rockbox witchery.


----------



## bavinck

Moonbuds just announced a Yuin bud. Those of you that like that style better go check them out!


----------



## seanc6441

bavinck said:


> Moonbuds just announced a Yuin bud. Those of you that like that style better go check them out!


They have a few yuin shell buds already. One is a TOTL (i think nightingale?) And the bunting.

But he is releasing new buds almost as regularly as Blur.


----------



## ValSilva

seanc6441 said:


> Euphoric. Some of the most clear and perfectly positioned vocal earbuds in it's price range. Yes it's forward but with nice space around it. It's a little bright in the upper mids but the mutli hole custom foams really balance it out at the expense of some air. Treble is clear and the response isn't linear but curved in a very musical way with sparkle.
> 
> Might sound it's best on a fuller source to really bring out some weight in the lower frequencies.





mbwilson111 said:


> I have heard the Masya. My husband has it and I borrowed it one night. I loved it but he would not let me keep it!



mbwilson111 seanc6441 You are right, Rose Masya it's a really good earbud. I think it will be better (scale up) when a got a better source. But by now I also received the EB2 and It's better on Fiio M3.

Tks a lot


----------



## CyberGhost

ClieOS said:


> There are recent report of BK sounding very veil in China as well, and the suspected culprit is either faulty or even fake driver being used (*not unheard of for people to swap out real driver with cheap stuff then resold the earphone as real stuff for a high price, then resold the driver as real replacement for more money). I have heard story from one of the well known earbuds maker that people swapped out driver and sent it back for repair hoping it will be replaced with the real one. Not saying this will be the case here, but it is best to get your more expensive earbuds from a trusted retailer.



Yea, I don't know. I might risk it later, but I've learned to lower my expectations.

I've read reviews where Cygnus is better than BK. Where BK is declared to be the best earbud ever, etc...


----------



## CyberGhost

I wonder why Sennheiser get out of the earbud business? MX985s are still regarded to be one of the best. I had a chance to buy MX980 years ago. I wish I had.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 14, 2018)

ValSilva said:


> mbwilson111 seanc6441 You are right, Rose Masya it's a really good earbud. I think it will be better (scale up) when a got a better source. But by now I also received the EB2 and It's better on Fiio M3.
> 
> Tks a lot


For me the source OI is the important factor. It will completey transform the sound of the masya from bright and lean to balanced and smooth.

But too much and the sound will become muddy. I think 3-4ohm is just right. 5 ohm will be thicker sounding and 1ohm will be very thin.


----------



## RobinFood

CyberGhost said:


> Yea, I don't know. I might risk it later, but I've learned to lower my expectations.
> 
> I've read reviews where Cygnus is better than BK. Where BK is declared to be the best earbud ever, etc...



I have read similar reviews, and not just recently either...then I read a lot of reviews say that the Willsound PK32 is better than the Cygnus, but less good than the PK32...so in the end everyone's taste seems a little different, no clear winner, they all do things a little different.


----------



## rkw

CyberGhost said:


> I wonder why Sennheiser get out of the earbud business?


Simple: follow the money. Demand is low and they could make make more profit elsewhere.


----------



## jant71

Any one order these and can say how they are... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079N6YHXK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1BU9YPNN1WWGU&psc=1

Thinking about maybe adding these the next time I need to get to the free shipping level as long as they are good foams


----------



## doggiemom (Oct 14, 2018)

$7.48 for 20 pair is pretty pricey.... I prefer the cheap brightly colored foams from Ali.   
Here is what I bought (100 pair for $3.60):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/200...placement-Sponge-Covers-Tips/32696147273.html
That particular quantity is no longer available, but they do have 500 pair for $14.25 or 10 pair for $0.95:
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...arpads-Covers-MP3-MP4/518946_32671911259.html


----------



## theresanarc

Told myself I wouldn't buy another single pair of MX500 shell earbuds but those RY4S's look too tempting at that price to try for a different soundstage. 

Anyways, do people generally prefer the sound of your buds with the holes taped or un-taped?


----------



## activatorfly

theresanarc said:


> Told myself I wouldn't buy another single pair of MX500 shell earbuds but those RY4S's look too tempting at that price to try for a different soundstage.
> 
> Anyways, do people generally prefer the sound of your buds with the holes taped or un-taped?


Un-taped.


----------



## bhima

jant71 said:


> Any one order these and can say how they are... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079N6YHXK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1BU9YPNN1WWGU&psc=1
> 
> Thinking about maybe adding these the next time I need to get to the free shipping level as long as they are good foams



That's alot of money for foams. I find the thin foams from Ali Express to be perfect for most buds:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...729.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.32104c4daq5aVb


----------



## snip3r77

theresanarc said:


> Told myself I wouldn't buy another single pair of MX500 shell earbuds but those RY4S's look too tempting at that price to try for a different soundstage.
> 
> Anyways, do people generally prefer the sound of your buds with the holes taped or un-taped?



Untaped.. taped sounds queer


----------



## CasstardPie

Hello everyone! Long time listener, first time poster. My workplace allows the use of earbuds for music, while iems and headphones are not allowed, so I get in a considerable amount of listening time, and such I am constantly on the lookout for new buds.
I'm also a collector of eargear, especially the pieces that are unique and worth keeping. 
This is mostly just an introduction post, thank you for reading, and I hope to be more active in this thread!


----------



## waynes world

jant71 said:


> Any one order these and can say how they are... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079N6YHXK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1BU9YPNN1WWGU&psc=1
> 
> Thinking about maybe adding these the next time I need to get to the free shipping level as long as they are good foams



They're not black. And there's not 100 pairs of them. And they ain't $0.94. So no go!!!

Just kidding! Although these seem to be all the rage right now (I'm patiently waiting for mine):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...p-Ear-Pads-Cover-Replacement/32790634729.html

But the ones you linked to might be great. Sean should get them and review them for you


----------



## bhima

waynes world said:


> They're not black. And there's not 100 pairs of them. And they ain't $0.94. So no go!!!
> 
> Just kidding! Although these seem to be all the rage right now (I'm patiently waiting for mine):
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...p-Ear-Pads-Cover-Replacement/32790634729.html
> ...



Those are the ones Wayne! I use them on every pair of buds I own. Well, I use Heigi Donuts on the Yincrow RW-777 just to get a halfway decent seal. Dang things are just too thick and rounded... they do not stay in my ears properly.


----------



## waynes world

bhima said:


> Those are the ones Wayne! I use them on every pair of buds I own.



That's what I want them for - everything lol! I have too many different foams from who knows where, and it's taxing on my poor little brain trying to decide which ones to use. I need simplicity... 100 pairs of simplicity!


----------



## silverfishla (Oct 15, 2018)

waynes world said:


> They're not black. And there's not 100 pairs of them. And they ain't $0.94. So no go
> Just kidding! Although these seem to be all the rage right now
> 
> 
> Those are the best!  They make practically everything sound better!


----------



## nxnje

Then, little comfy shell under 15$?


----------



## wskl

nxnje said:


> Then, little comfy shell under 15$?



Search for "VE Monk Lite" and "Qian39" on Aliexpress


----------



## gattari

Dear Friend：
Thanks for your purchase from our online store PenonAudio .
we have already shipped your parcel via Hong Kong post.

Rose Masya pro


----------



## golov17

Sweet mids, 32 ohm sounds like baby Asura2.0 ))


----------



## euge

Took these out to have a listen, still sounds great! Even after listening to all the other more expensive ones.


----------



## HungryPanda

K's earbuds are something special


----------



## mbwilson111

golov17 said:


> Sweet mids, 32 ohm sounds like baby Asura2.0 ))



I wonder if I will need one last bud.   I do need that box 

Does this bud have a name?


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 15, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> K's earbuds are something special


Agreed! They seem to focus releasing high quality over quantity and it takes ambition from them to drop the mx500 shell they were used to tuning for these new brass and titanium designs. 



euge said:


> Took these out to have a listen, still sounds great! Even after listening to all the other more expensive ones.


Good price for the build quality. Do you have the original K300 or K300 samsara for comparison?

Which more expensive buds do these compete with?


----------



## golov17

mbwilson111 said:


> I wonder if I will need one last bud.   I do need that box
> 
> Does this bud have a name?


http://headphoneguru.com/
Clear


----------



## singledot02

Please recommend BUDS upgrade from Headroom MS16
Genre: RNB, HipHop, Rock, Alternative, Metal

BUDGET: $100 and below

Thanks


----------



## 40760

I'm loving the Zen 2.0 Black Edition that arrived this morning...


----------



## rahmish

singledot02 said:


> Please recommend BUDS upgrade from Headroom MS16
> Genre: RNB, HipHop, Rock, Alternative, Metal
> 
> BUDGET: $100 and below
> ...


I would recommend Willsound Mk1 or Mk2, I personally prefer Mk1 for hiphop,  but you can try cheaper options like Vido, EMX 500 or RY4S


----------



## Forty6

palestofwhite said:


> I'm loving the Zen 2.0 Black Edition that arrived this morning...



Ha congrats for your newly catch bro.

My Zen2.0 black alternative Zoe with Black cardas golden ratio speakers wires say Hi


----------



## 40760

Forty6 said:


> Ha congrats for your newly catch bro.
> 
> My Zen2.0 black alternative Zoe with Black cardas golden ratio speakers wires say Hi



Thank you.... 

Someday I'll own a QLS like yourself... Maybe the QA361...


----------



## Forty6

palestofwhite said:


> Thank you....
> 
> Someday I'll own a QLS like yourself... Maybe the QA361...



What is QA360 QA361 when you got a option which make more sense of pairing up the QLS QA860 with the New venture electronics Defiant Amp


----------



## 40760

Forty6 said:


> What is QA360 QA361 when you got a option which make more sense of pairing up the QLS QA860 with the New venture electronics Defiant Amp



Whichever can bring out the desired performance of the Zen Blacks...

I'll have to go check them out soon!


----------



## Forty6

palestofwhite said:


> Whichever can bring out the desired performance of the Zen Blacks...
> 
> I'll have to go check them out soon!



With that pairing . probably can finally gets to sit back , cross leg and relax to enjoy the music peacefully without the head keeps having second or third thoughts about upgrading for a year or 2 at least


----------



## jant71

bhima said:


> That's alot of money for foams. I find the thin foams from Ali Express to be perfect for most buds:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...729.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.32104c4daq5aVb





waynes world said:


> They're not black. And there's not 100 pairs of them. And they ain't $0.94. So no go!!!
> 
> Just kidding! Although these seem to be all the rage right now (I'm patiently waiting for mine):
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...p-Ear-Pads-Cover-Replacement/32790634729.html
> ...



Yep, If they are near Heigi good and, like I said I need to add on to get the free shipping limit then I get something useful for my money instead of just paying  shipping on Amazon. They say they are thick and always have points or some credits on Amazon. Just got $3 for reviewing a DAP.  They just need to be good enough.


----------



## ChikiChpoki (Oct 15, 2018)

singledot02 said:


> Please recommend BUDS upgrade from Headroom MS16
> Genre: RNB, HipHop, Rock, Alternative, Metal
> 
> BUDGET: $100 and below
> ...


Headroom MS16 has microphone and controls, if you really need a mic try Boarseman K25, they are neutral earbuds.
There are variants without mic: QianYun Qian25, also neutral, slightly better then K25.
As for metal and other heavy genres I recommend anyone to try QianYun Qian69, they are mid bass forward and also has unique sound signature.


----------



## seanc6441

Rose Masya re-terminated as the original plug was flaking and effecting the signal.

I was having an issue with the connectors staying put so they are under some clear heat shrink now.


----------



## handwander (Oct 15, 2018)

Nice cable.

Did anyone win a Penon BS1


----------



## seanc6441

handwander said:


> Nice cable.


Thank you 

Stock able with shoelace covering, looks nicer than masya stock cable was a bit dull before.


----------



## silverfishla

seanc6441 said:


> Rose Masya re-terminated as the original plug was flaking and effecting the signal.
> 
> I was having an issue with the connectors staying put so they are under some clear heat shrink now.


My Mojitos had a slightly loose fit with it’cable.  Now I just use .78 cables instead of .75.


----------



## theresanarc

Anyone know the diameter of this shell? RY04. I spotted it on their store when I was ordering the RY4s (speaking of which, what does the UE cable do vs the regular?).

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ml?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.2.47f65414SuVLLb


----------



## Themilkman46290

theresanarc said:


> Anyone know the diameter of this shell? RY04. I spotted it on their store when I was ordering the RY4s (speaking of which, what does the UE cable do vs the regular?).
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ml?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.2.47f65414SuVLLb


Not sure but I found the shells, said there 16mm shell made for 15.4mm dynamic driver
DIY 16mm earphone headset accessories funda universal headphone unit housing A8 headphones shell casing 15.4mm

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bzzIoEZ2


----------



## teston (Oct 16, 2018)

Forty6 said:


> Ha congrats for your newly catch bro.
> 
> My Zen2.0 black alternative Zoe with Black cardas golden ratio speakers wires say Hi


I'm eager to hear the improvement with the cardas golden cable on ZOE. I demoed the Zen Black and it sounds great.

This is my ZOE with Satin Audio Monster Griffin cable. Nice combo indeed.


----------



## bloodyf8

does crossroads HR-1 worth to buy nowdays? im only using ifi nano black label connected to my pc


----------



## Forty6

teston said:


> I'm eager to hear the improvement with the cardas golden cable on ZOE. I demoed the Zen Black and it sounds great.
> 
> This is my ZOE with Satin Audio Monster Griffin cable. Nice combo indeed.



I didn't had that plenty of cabling option at hand for me to played with the zoe except for the standard cable for zen 2.0 which comes with and the cardas golden ratio which i accidentally come across the listing for sale by one of my local communities .
I haven't even got the Zoe yet When i bought that cardas .
I was still planning and considering on the black or the Zoe edition which to order first at that time , but the decision making of which to order first came very easy and naturally when that cardas golden ratio suddenly appear out of the blue in the listing and the next thing i do was ping the seller and secured that cardas and ordered the zoe from VE straight away.

We understand that the cardas golden selection was used on the black edition , and from the memory with my many many months back brief demo on one of the black edition from my local communities playing both on my LG and with one of my QLS , i experienced the warmth and smoothie soundstage sig yet was detailing enough for my music and that was the kind of sig i had been looking and craving for in my music , i love lush warmth and smooth type of soundstage with earbuds , class A type of amplify tube like sound , because i like listening my music loud and those sig are able to let me turn up the vol without had that Sharpen  knife like piercing through my ears with the highs .
That was my short experiencing on the black edition with my gears from my memory , and i really really love the black edition  very very the much because it suits me and the music and most importantly the synergy between the black edition with the gears i had at hand was very good very satisfying.

As for the cardas golden ratio which i had pair with the zoes are not sound as fuller as compare to the black edition cardas in my memory , the cardas golden ratio which i had at hand is of a brighter , more clearer and lots of details , micro details to be specific .
Not warmth and smooth lush like , but was smooth enough for me to use it at loud volume with the RA2B headphone amp without that  knife piercing through the ears type of experiences , i love it too with this one cardas , each has it own strength , and i loved both with what i had experience it with , the black edition Zen is coming in on my next VE order . it's a great opportunity for me to have 2 Zen in 2 different world of cardas .
I will have a better understanding the sonic difference between the 2 once i got the black edition in my next VE order . 

Apart from the cardas wires above , lately not long ago i had also got a chance to short demo with a very pricey cooper litz in 4 wires with the zoe .
I been told and intro in which this is a custom designed wires made in japan by Furukawa , which the wires are originated comes from a famous brand in HK Rhapsodio .

The initial demo with this wires is of a very rush one , but the experience with it on the zoe soundstage wise is rich full add that with warmth and smooth , so for my taste that's sound very nice in that short demo ing ,  and to had a further taste of what actually would taste like when pairing up with my other gears is a thing I'm very interested to find out, and if the synergy is good between the gears i had and sound exactly what I'm looking for , i will request to demo a 8 wires instead of that 4 wire , to feel throughly about the difference between 4 and 8 wires with the Zoe .
If the final result is good , i will not hesitate to purchase another Zoe to pair up with this one cooper , just need another 1 stressfree type of quality demo session will do.

Actually there's another Zen with me atm with the oyaide silver wires. 

It's marketed as the Zen white at VE . a very pricey TOTL earbud money could buy at this moment i believe .

This oyaide zen was loaned to me by a friend from the courtesy of my local community , it's a might wants to sell item as he's into big cans nowsaday so this piece is not much put into use after he switch over to really ex cans . 
As it's of no use to him that's why he's ok to let me have a feel of what a Zen with Oyaide sound like and go have fun with it without any condition .

The Zen with the oyaide I'm experiencing is are on another lever , side by side sonic comparison with the cardas golden ratio i got is quite similar to the comparison made above with the black edition through my memory , 

With the oyaide and the golden ratio is kind of night and day differences between the two wires .
Firstly to noted is the golden ratio is of very very stiff wires , too stiff to be wear and used properly with iem or the zoe if i was to be very specific with it , i don't think many would like that stiff wearing and walking around because it just wouldn't work with walking or commuting around with the golden ratio wires .
For my case , that's ok and it's fine as i mainly used it at home , enjoying on the desk so i can live with that kind of stiffness .

Second to noted is , based on my memory with the black edition , this Zen oyaide sonically difference with the black edition cardas golden selection is not of a day or night difference as compared to the one cardas golden ratio i had , 
I found the zen oyaide soundstage like the black edition is of warmth ,smooth , rich , fuller and lot of details enough to be heard , not as bright or as clear compare to the golden ratio but i believe is certainly a upgrade to the black edition , i cannot confirm as i do not have the black edition placed side by side with the zen oyaide to experiencing the differences between both , but compare to the Zoe with cardas golden ratio ,  i preferred and leaned more towards to the zen oyaide , the reason is I like a warmth and smooth sound than any other , the Zen with the oyaide sound exactly what my preference was , so if i have to choose one among the above , i would bite the bullet to go straight directly for the best , which i will pick the zen with the silver oyaide .

Overall my experience with the Zen is , these zen are extremely good when drive with a powerful headphone Amplifier , i used the RA2B to drive them to heaven , regardless of which type of music genres I'm listening to , whether it's with the oyaide silver or the cardas golden ratio .
It's all very satisfying to me .

To me , after listening experiencing with the various zen , the zen earbud is not just a earbud to me anymore. 

It's more than a earbud it can brings , it's a lifelike experience . 

Sorry write so lengthy reply , no offence ya , and hopefully you understand what I'm writing .


----------



## 40760

Forty6 said:


> I didn't had that plenty of cabling option at hand for me to played with the zoe except for the standard cable for zen 2.0 which comes with and the cardas golden ratio which i accidentally come across the listing for sale by one of my local communities .
> I haven't even got the Zoe yet When i bought that cardas .
> I was still planning and considering on the black or the Zoe edition which to order first at that time , but the decision making of which to order first came very easy and naturally when that cardas golden ratio suddenly appear out of the blue in the listing and the next thing i do was ping the seller and secured that cardas and ordered the zoe from VE straight away.
> 
> ...



TBH, it's very likely I'll purchase the ZOE again to use with the 102ssc cable that's lying around. In fact, I liked them so much that I jumped on the Black Edition without second thought, when Lee offered me to trade them in.

Although price being a factor of consideration, I do see myself eventually getting the White Edition. Though I wouldn't classify one as being superior to the other, just different takes on the same signature. I think the same can be said about the ZOE with 102ssc cables. They're really excellent as well...


----------



## Forty6

palestofwhite said:


> TBH, it's very likely I'll purchase the ZOE again to use with the 102ssc cable that's lying around. In fact, I liked them so much that I jumped on the Black Edition without second thought, when Lee offered me to trade them in.
> 
> Although price being a factor of consideration, I do see myself eventually getting the White Edition. Though I wouldn't classify one as being superior to the other, just different takes on the same signature. I think the same can be said about the ZOE with 102ssc cables. They're really excellent as well...



Yes , the zen really sound different with various types of wires i had been experiencing with , much of it comes with the wires , the zen are priced differently at VE store mainly the reason is because of the type of wires VE had picked and paired it with the Zen , the black edition and white edition is the best example .

The Zoe are more open for cabing options for zen user to played with because of the detachable shell design , so it's good in a way to let zen user to experience different feel with the zen .

All in all , from my experience , without a powerful amp , the zen wouldn't shine and sing like a hi end and it's impossible to brings out the best in the zen .
To drive them to heaven one need a powerful amp . 

And VE are not short of offering the most bang for buck powerful amp .


----------



## CasstardPie

The Ocean blue cable is also great for the ZOE, really cleans up the sound imo. Generally I find pure silver cables to work best with the ZOE, the thicker the better. Copper and spc can be rather finicky.


----------



## CasstardPie

Forty6 said:


> And VE are not short of offering the most bang for buck powerful amp .



Right? The RAplus is pretty much my standard amp. It doesn't have balanced, but the SE is enough to drive everything I've ever tried.


----------



## Forty6 (Oct 16, 2018)

CasstardPie said:


> The Ocean blue cable is also great for the ZOE, really cleans up the sound imo. Generally I find pure silver cables to work best with the ZOE, the thicker the better. Copper and spc can be rather finicky.



The options of trying with wires are endless with the Zoe .
That's what i like most in the Zoe .
But as usual with these detachable connecter ports, it tends to wear out and cause it to loose when changing wires frequently . that's one downside .



CasstardPie said:


> Right? The RAplus is pretty much my standard amp. It doesn't have balanced, but the SE is enough to drive everything I've ever tried.



Imho , if looking at VE portable headphone amp , the most bang for bucks in the line up is the $200+ RA2.0 bal lite , power spec is impressive for its size and comes with balanced and single out , very hard to beat this one


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 16, 2018)

CasstardPie said:


> The Ocean blue cable is also great for the ZOE, really cleans up the sound imo. Generally I find pure silver cables to work best with the ZOE, the thicker the better. Copper and spc can be rather finicky.





Forty6 said:


> The options of trying with wires are endless with the Zoe .
> That's what i like most in the Zoe .
> But as usual with these detachable connecter ports, it tends to wear out and cause it to loose when changing wires frequently . that's one downside .
> 
> ...


Does the type of wire used in the interconnect between driver and 2 pin connector not effect the sound compared to a direct connection to the driver? (Like all nom detachable cables).

I know that in earbuds this wire lenght is very minimal but I've always wondered this for headphones too.

Buying expensive rare precious metal wires for your gear but having a cheap stock copper wire and different connector matieral in the signal path.


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> Does the type of wire used in the interconnect between driver and 2 pin connector not effect the sound compared to a direct connection to the driver? (Like all nom detachable cables).
> 
> I know that in earbuds this wire lenght is very minimal but I've always wondered this for headphones too.
> 
> Buying expensive rare precious metal wires for your gear but having a cheap stock copper wire in the signal path.



I guess it does, but to what kind of degree measurable or perceivable that is... 

BTW have you already started with the DIY projects? See that you're warming up with the Masya cables first...


----------



## seanc6441

palestofwhite said:


> I guess it does, but to what kind of degree measurable or perceivable that is...
> 
> BTW have you already started with the DIY projects? See that you're warming up with the Masya cables first...


That's exactly what I'm doing first 

I'll do the bs1 next, then start on my project. Their was a few things with the masya that was good experience for my project. I think having a few recables/replugs done beforehand will help me when it comes to making my own buds.


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> That's exactly what I'm doing first
> 
> I'll do the bs1 next, then start on my project. Their was a few things with the masya that was good experience for my project. I think having a few recables/replugs done beforehand will help me when it comes to making my own buds.



I think being able to fix the cable weight issue (metal chin slider?) of the BS1 will be great... Can't wait to see what you can achieve!


----------



## seanc6441

palestofwhite said:


> I think being able to fix the cable weight issue (metal chin slider?) of the BS1 will be great... Can't wait to see what you can achieve!


I'm removing the slider, replaceing the splitter with heat shrink and as a final effort if the weight is still too much I'll take a few cm off the cable, but i really dont wanna have to do that because redoing an 8 core cable takes more time.

It will look a little more barebones, but at least it will be practical for use then.


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> I'm removing the slider, replaceing the splitter with heat shrink and as a final effort if the weight is still too much I'll take a few cm off the cable, but i really dont wanna have to do that because redoing an 8 core cable takes more time.
> 
> It will look a little more barebones, but at least it will be practical for use then.



I have a strong feeling removing the metal splitter should be enough. I have a similarly styled 2 pin cable and could not use it because the downward force tugs on my IEMs a tad too much.

Having a shrink wrap for slider or split should be the best solution as it's the lightest, and the best way to maintain having the original cable as much as possible to retain the signature of the BS1.


----------



## Forty6 (Oct 16, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Does the type of wire used in the interconnect between driver and 2 pin connector not effect the sound compared to a direct connection to the driver? (Like all nom detachable cables).
> 
> I know that in earbuds this wire lenght is very minimal but I've always wondered this for headphones too.
> 
> Buying expensive rare precious metal wires for your gear but having a cheap stock copper wire and different connector matieral in the signal path.



For this question i have the same question and queries too ,  but if you ask me well i do not have a proper answer to it even  there's a likely sonic difference made to the overall sound , i do not think that is something i could had pick up as my ears are not tuned specifically to pick up those micro sonically difference  as compare to pick up the overall listening experiences .
I'm only for the end result . 

But i do believe a direct soldered to the driver is the best of all , but then even if it's a direct soldered on , the type of solder metal used may also have a effect on the sonic .

On a side note , the next iem VE were to introduce to the world is going to be based on a None-detachable design shell . a non detachable iem said to be a lot better than the current detachable Monk IE .


----------



## 40760

Forty6 said:


> For this question i have the same question and queries too ,  but if you ask me well i do not have a proper answer to it even  there's a likely sonic difference made to the overall sound , i do not think that is something i could had pick up as my ears are not tuned specifically to pick up those micro sonically difference  as compare to pick up the overall listening experiences .
> I'm only for the end result .
> 
> But i do believe a direct soldered to the driver is the best of all , but then even if it's a direct soldered on , the type of solder metal used may also have a effect on the sonic .
> ...



That's also one I've been waiting for... since I haven't bought the current IE and wanted something with fixed cable...


----------



## seanc6441

palestofwhite said:


> That's also one I've been waiting for... since I haven't bought the current IE and wanted something with fixed cable...


Apparently Lee thinks the new one will be much better than biggie/small. He wasn't satisfied with their performance apparently.

Anyone with the biggie or small gets a good discount on the new one, I think around 60% off approximately.


----------



## teston

Forty6 said:


> I didn't had that plenty of cabling option at hand for me to played with the zoe except for the standard cable for zen 2.0 which comes with and the cardas golden ratio which i accidentally come across the listing for sale by one of my local communities .
> I haven't even got the Zoe yet When i bought that cardas .
> I was still planning and considering on the black or the Zoe edition which to order first at that time , but the decision making of which to order first came very easy and naturally when that cardas golden ratio suddenly appear out of the blue in the listing and the next thing i do was ping the seller and secured that cardas and ordered the zoe from VE straight away.
> 
> ...


Wow. Thanks for so much information and your experiences you provided in your reply.
I too often listening to music loud so I prefer buds with kind of smooth signature, as their mid don't become shouty to my ears.
I agree that the Zen really shine when proper amped, but as my most listening time is at work so I often use it with a dap like AR M2 and Hiby R6.
For me, the oyaide 102ssc is stiff enough that make me think twice to go with the Cardas cable or Zen Black.
I chose the Satin Griffin cable as it is pure occ copper litz cable (with cryogenic treatment) and it did not disappoint me. Smooth sound with more details on the mid and treb (without any harsh or piercings). The presentation is full and more proper placement.
I always hear that VE Amps is best choice for Zen so maybe it's time for me to get one.


----------



## Forty6 (Oct 16, 2018)

teston said:


> Wow. Thanks for so much information and your experiences you provided in your reply.
> I too often listening to music loud so I prefer buds with kind of smooth signature, as their mid don't become shouty to my ears.
> I agree that the Zen really shine when proper amped, but as my most listening time is at work so I often use it with a dap like AR M2 and Hiby R6.
> For me, the oyaide 102ssc is stiff enough that make me think twice to go with the Cardas cable or Zen Black.
> ...



Np bro, after listening to various of Zen in different types or form , I really came to how to better appreciate these earbud than the others earbud , iem I had a chance to play with , the sound of the Zen earbud is really the best sounding I could had ask for ,
I like the sound in each of every I had experienced with .

As for the VE amp , the reason is I already had their balanced and single end at hand now both the RA2B and the RA2.0 ,  if not owning the both or if I were to make my first purchase of the VE amp , the $200+  RA2.0 bal lite is the one I would had grab it happily without consider too much , that's for sure , but since I had both the balanced and single end with me there's no reason for me to grab this portable little as much as I would like to , but having said that ,  maybe after I had done with the rest of the item in my Must Buy list , with extra cash in hand I might grab this portable little who knows ,
This portable little is really hard to be beaten consider its listed price and the all power output spec in balanced and single end .
Definitely bang for buck .
If you're considering in a VE portable all time powerful Amp for the Zen , even though myself had not experienced the power of this $200+ portable little , this will not restraint me of giving you the recommendation  .
As a legit ve amp user and own 2 of the VE portable amp currently, I guess I am qualified to give you one .
that 200+ bal lite are the one I would strongly recommend you to purchase and go pair up with the amazing Zen.


----------



## HungryPanda

Should the VE talk really be in this thread?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ve-a-new-and-impressive-earbuds-brand.759219/


----------



## Forty6

HungryPanda said:


> Should the VE talk really be in this thread?
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ve-a-new-and-impressive-earbuds-brand.759219/



So sorry if the many VE post made here had caused a disturbance to member here . 

Sorry ya


----------



## HungryPanda

no problems here just trying to be helpful


----------



## Forty6

HungryPanda said:


> no problems here just trying to be helpful



Oh no np too here for me , me also trying to be helpful to others member in the most convenient way .


----------



## teston

Forty6 said:


> Np bro, after listening to various of Zen in different types or form , I really came to how to better appreciate these earbud than the others earbud , iem I had a chance to play with , the sound of the Zen earbud is really the best sounding I could had ask for ,
> I like the sound in each of every I had experienced with .
> 
> As for the VE amp , the reason is I already had their balanced and single end at hand now both the RA2B and the RA2.0 ,  if not owning the both or if I were to make my first purchase of the VE amp , the $200+  RA2.0 bal lite is the one I would had grab it happily without consider too much , that's for sure , but since I had both the balanced and single end with me there's no reason for me to grab this portable little as much as I would like to , but having said that ,  maybe after I had done with the rest of the item in my Must Buy list , with extra cash in hand I might grab this portable little who knows ,
> ...


Thanks for your recommendation. Tbh, I prefer hear your take on RA2.0B and RA2.0 and how they paired with the Ve Zen.



HungryPanda said:


> Should the VE talk really be in this thread?
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ve-a-new-and-impressive-earbuds-brand.759219/


Sorry, we got too excited back then so that we derailed the thread. 
As it related to the Ve Zen earbuds I hope it didn't disturb you guys.


----------



## HungryPanda

I like my VE earbuds as much as the rest of us


----------



## golov17

I still mourn about dead Zen1.0


----------



## endia

seanc6441 said:


> Does the type of wire used in the interconnect between driver and 2 pin connector not effect the sound compared to a direct connection to the driver? (Like all nom detachable cables).





Forty6 said:


> But i do believe a direct soldered to the driver is the best of all , but then even if it's a direct soldered on , the type of solder metal used may also have a effect on the sonic .



that is what exactly i believe too..
any type of plug decreasing signal quality.. when you use a replacable cable you have three unnecessary connections;
soldering cable to the male plug, then male and female plugs contacting somehow and then soldering that female plug to another cable inside the shell (sometimes it's impossible to use your desired cable inside the shell) and another solder to the driver.. instead of one connection you have four connections now.. quality of solder can't compensate signal loss but only can reduce..
direct soldering is much easy and best way to transmit a signal for me..


----------



## waynes world

golov17 said:


> I still mourn about dead Zen1.0



I feel for you! Mine are alive and well, but in a safety deposit box so that I am not tempted to use them and break them


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> Should the VE talk really be in this thread?
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ve-a-new-and-impressive-earbuds-brand.759219/


If It's earbud related it's fair game? If we start talking about their whole line up then I agree it should be in the VE thread


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 16, 2018)

endia said:


> that is what exactly i believe too..
> any type of plug decreasing signal quality.. when you use a replacable cable you have three unnecessary connections;
> soldering cable to the male plug, then male and female plugs contacting somehow and then soldering that female plug to another cable inside the shell (sometimes it's impossible to use your desired cable inside the shell) and another solder to the driver.. instead of one connection you have four connections now.. quality of solder can't compensate signal loss but only can reduce..
> direct soldering is much easy and best way to transmit a signal for me..


Well if you are a dedicated believer in cables and strive for a pure signal then all this must matter too.

I see so many posts about pure silver cables and how it's so superior and then you realise they left the $1 copper wire in the interconnect.... That would bother me lol

That's why I find it comical that some will spend $500+ on a cable saying they want the purest and best signal and not even consider rewiring the internals or removing detachable connectors.

This either shows that they buy into hype and don't really consider the full connection, or have too much money to burn lol!

That's the part of hype around cables I don't like... If you gonna commit to cables being everything the  you can't half ass it!


----------



## snip3r77

teston said:


> Wow. Thanks for so much information and your experiences you provided in your reply.
> I too often listening to music loud so I prefer buds with kind of smooth signature, as their mid don't become shouty to my ears.
> I agree that the Zen really shine when proper amped, but as my most listening time is at work so I often use it with a dap like AR M2 and Hiby R6.
> For me, the oyaide 102ssc is stiff enough that make me think twice to go with the Cardas cable or Zen Black.
> ...


The zen is the same cost as monk. Wild Lee says so at the reddit AMA


----------



## toear

Just wanted to say it is absolutely amazing that the AE 'ofo' (one hundred for one dollar) earphone pads make everything from my $100+ earbuds to my $6 buds sound better! I always want the nicer, more durable ones that come with many earbuds to sound better... But they don't....


----------



## endia

seanc6441 said:


> Well if you are a dedicated believer in cables and strive for a pure signal then all this must matter too.
> 
> I see so many posts about pure silver cables and how it's so superior and then you realise they left the $1 copper wire in the interconnect.... That would bother me lol
> 
> ...



no, I'm not, in fact contrary.
but a believer of honesty and simplicity on cables.. a pure copper cable is not that much expensive.. but those flashy plugs, connectors etc. adds nothing to the signal.. just rich boys jewellery imho..
there is a saying about cables;
best cable is no cable


----------



## seanc6441

snip3r77 said:


> The zen is the same cost as monk. Wild Lee says so at the reddit AMA


Same cost to produce doesn't necessarily mean same cost to research and develop.

It can use very similar matierial cost wise but doesn't make it the same driver. Unless he specifically said its the same driver of course.


----------



## chinmie

snip3r77 said:


> The zen is the same cost as monk. Wild Lee says so at the reddit AMA



maybe, but I'd rather own one Zen than 30 monk plus. the way i see it my ears have limited and downward sloping lifetime, so with limited time per-day to listen to music, I'd try to give them the best possible time 

I'm not saying more expensive buds are always better, it's just i don't enjoy the monks too much. same as the mojito for instance. those are expensive, but i would rather not spend my "ear time" listening to it.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Well if you are a dedicated believer in cables and strive for a pure signal then all this must matter too.
> 
> I see so many posts about pure silver cables and how it's so superior and then you realise they left the $1 copper wire in the interconnect.... That would bother me lol
> 
> ...



detachable cables are for cable tinkerers and those who favor versatility. (i belong on the latter) 
sometimes when people wants to experience /experiment on cables, it's still best to have detachables, so they can hear the difference quickly. once they know what cables are suited for them, then they can have their option to solder them permanently. 

i like some buds/iems to have detachable cables for purposes of using them as bluetooths.

for both scenarios, any sound degradation from the connectors is minimal compared to the benefit of convenience


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> detachable cables are for cable tinkerers and those who favor versatility. (i belong on the latter)
> sometimes when people wants to experience /experiment on cables, it's still best to have detachables, so they can hear the difference quickly. once they know what cables are suited for them, then they can have their option to solder them permanently.
> 
> i like some buds/iems to have detachable cables for purposes of using them as bluetooths.
> ...


True and I have no issue with that, or using detachable earbud with upgraded cable, but if purchase high end expensive cable then it probably makes sense to go the extra 10% and use direct wired or change the interconnect cable to the same type.

It's good for cable rolling and for people who want logetivity with replaceable cables though.

There's a place for all kinds I guess.


----------



## kurtextrem

By any chance, does someone have a Black Ling and a Zen Omega and can compare please their sounds?


----------



## Moonstar

The Simphonio Dragon2+ is one of my favorite earbuds since the last two months. It has a transparent midrange and can produce pretty high level of micro detail. The bass tuning is not appropriate for certain genres, but I think that it is good enough for genres such as jazz or acoustic music. The soundstage performance is also quite successful. The only remarkable downside for many users could be the price.


----------



## golov17

Moonstar said:


> The Simphonio Dragon2+ is one of my favorite earbuds since the last two months. It has a transparent midrange and can produce pretty high level of micro detail. The bass tuning is not appropriate for certain genres, but I think that it is good enough for genres such as jazz or acoustic music. The soundstage performance is also quite successful. The only remarkable downside for many users could be the price.


Yes, really lucky for those who have Massdrop delivery for two hundred bucks


----------



## 40760

Moonstar said:


> The Simphonio Dragon2+ is one of my favorite earbuds since the last two months. It has a transparent midrange and can produce pretty high level of micro detail. The bass tuning is not appropriate for certain genres, but I think that it is good enough for genres such as jazz or acoustic music. The soundstage performance is also quite successful. The only remarkable downside for many users could be the price.



Just made me feel like taking mine out for a listen again...


----------



## snip3r77

Going to Shanghai soon.

Is there any place that I can shop earbuds in retail?


----------



## Moonstar

golov17 said:


> Yes, really lucky for those who have Massdrop delivery for two hundred bucks


Yeah, the Massrop sale was a nice deal!


----------



## ClieOS

WillSound MK1 Special Edition
ZEVA 雪灵 Snow 
ZEVA 塞壬 Siren
ZEVA 东皇 DonHuang (*East Emperor)


----------



## subwoof3r

ClieOS said:


> WillSound MK1 Special Edition


thought ?


----------



## ClieOS

subwoof3r said:


> thought ?



Fun, dynamic and ToTL. Nuff said.


----------



## chinmie

ClieOS said:


> Fun, dynamic and ToTL. Nuff said.



glad to see I'm not crazy when i said the MKs are TOTL level some time ago


----------



## Forty6

teston said:


> Thanks for your recommendation. Tbh, I prefer hear your take on RA2.0B and RA2.0 and how they paired with the Ve Zen.



Well if you wants to hear my take of how I feel about the zens paired with the 2 amp ok then , since your kind of music signature preferences of smooth and love playing loud music with the zens is of similar to my preference for warmth smoothing sounding Sig on loud , that means we're both at least on the same frequency level .
Which make me feel won't waste quality time interacts with you .

 but I have to tell you in advance , don't expect too much from my answer , if u want to ask very technical or very specific things then I'm not the one . There are better ones out there mainly because of my describing skill are very poor and not very good at finding the correct , proper or most suitable, appropriate words to describe something correctly.
My answer i try to give are always the most simple and most straight forward , Good or not good only.


Both RA2.0 , RA2B  are very good with the zens . If the RA2.0 can drive the zens to heaven then the RA2B can drive the zens to outer space.
Which means the balanced are much much better to drive and sound much more better on the zens than the single end .

But one thing is when you conpare the spec chart  with the $300+ RA2.0 to the $800+ RA2B .
Topology wise are of course very different because one is a balanced and the other a single end , the implementation on the caps , opamps are very much different too , so the sounding of course is very the different ? No not quite , at least what I'm listening on my ears .
Both share that same sig, not overly bright nor thin , but very rich , smooth and lush with the zens .

My listening experience with both is that both the RA2B , RA2.0 had excel in everything what my expectations is for my taste of a headphones amp . what ever genre songs , type of music I throw at them , melodeath metal , heavy metal , rock pop edm techno sentiment , instruments , guitars , drums , bass , Especially live recordings which I love most ,  they sing with the Zen and sing it beautifully without a hiss . 
Neutral natural sound, balanced without coloured anything on the Zen.

In regards with sound ,  Both RA2.0 and RA2B are on par with each other , the main difference between this two is one is a balanced with full size XLR input/output , the other as a single end 3.5mm input/output .

Driving Power aside .

The other noticeable difference when doing side by side comparison between the 2 is the Balanced sound more fuller more lush and energy than the single end .
Other than the points above I found nothing too noticeable difference in sonic between them .

I really loved both amp combo with the zens especially the Zen with oyaide wires than the bright Sig of the cardas golden ratio zoe , but with all honesty I loved them all , they all sing very beautifully without shouty or overly harsh in anyway .
Great combo among each other .

If I'm experiencing , having and enjoying TOTL , very Hi end quality results with the Zen earbud + Runabout amp combination , so can you too bro to experience what I had experienced with the combination .

No need to think too much about it bro, now that I give u the confidence , go grab that $200+ RA2 Bal Lite combo with your Zen . Your dap should be a good complement to the combo , just like how my LGV20 , QLS QA360 , QA360LE a good complement with the combo .
[/QUOTE]


----------



## Forty6

endia said:


> that is what exactly i believe too..
> any type of plug decreasing signal quality.. when you use a replacable cable you have three unnecessary connections;
> soldering cable to the male plug, then male and female plugs contacting somehow and then soldering that female plug to another cable inside the shell (sometimes it's impossible to use your desired cable inside the shell) and another solder to the driver.. instead of one connection you have four connections now.. quality of solder can't compensate signal loss but only can reduce..
> direct soldering is much easy and best way to transmit a signal for me..



Why the need to be so stressed about changing wires ... Like you said so many connections after one replacement of wires .. I don't know the others but I only interested in overall how the phone sound after wire change , that goes the same with connectors , there's only 3 outcome after 're cable , either you pick up no change in sound , sound better or sound worse .
I don't really bother about the soldering , or the type of connectors use or the type of wires to be very Frank , I'm all after forbthe end result , how the sound sounded like in my ears . Only


----------



## cocolinho

ClieOS said:


> Fun, dynamic and ToTL. Nuff said.


Bought! will see in 2w how they compare to MK2 and TM9 if still in my hands. I'm furiously looking to buy Zoomfred as well... I should relax and sell a bunch of stuff before!


----------



## golov17

cocolinho said:


> Bought! will see in 2w how they compare to MK2 and TM9 if still in my hands. I'm furiously looking to buy Zoomfred as well... I should relax and sell a bunch of stuff before!


I would wait for an update from Blox (insiders)


----------



## subwoof3r

golov17 said:


> I would wait for an update from Blox (insiders)


Exactly


----------



## audio123

When old meets new


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Hello guys!

I need a good indication of a nice earbud for my wife, but it need to have: sound quality, size (her ear is really small), low impendance (she will never use a amp) and low price. I was thinking about the monk lite. I have a pair of Zen LL and it fits really well on her ear. Do you know anything better? The best shoud be that one that you can fall sleep with it without any 
discomfort.


----------



## darmanastartes

chinmie said:


> detachable cables are for cable tinkerers and those who favor versatility. (i belong on the latter)
> sometimes when people wants to experience /experiment on cables, it's still best to have detachables, so they can hear the difference quickly. once they know what cables are suited for them, then they can have their option to solder them permanently.
> 
> i like some buds/iems to have detachable cables for purposes of using them as bluetooths.
> ...



Detachable cables are a must-have for me because replacing a cable is preferable to buying a whole new IEM or earbud. I don't believe cables make a difference sound-wise.


----------



## Carrow

Got these from @seanc6441 today  @WillSound PK32! Allegedly the version with improved bass but I can't quite tell yet. These are suuuper comfortable and are doing a great job reproducing the hyperactive chiptronica of Anamanaguchi's 'Endless Fantasy' album


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm thoroughly enjoying the Rose Masyas tonight, I don't listen to them enough


----------



## theresanarc

Marcos Fontana said:


> Hello guys!
> 
> I need a good indication of a nice earbud for my wife, but it need to have: sound quality, size (her ear is really small), low impendance (she will never use a amp) and low price. I was thinking about the monk lite. I have a pair of Zen LL and it fits really well on her ear. Do you know anything better? The best shoud be that one that you can fall sleep with it without any
> discomfort.



There's very little choice in budget for that shell unfortunately. The only ones I know are Monk Lite, Qian39, and Edifier H180. They're all cheap (you can use the coupon on this store to get the Edifier for $6 USD: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...lgo_pvid=c6269108-c1d1-48cb-b1eb-1fac921e5716).

The Toneking ROS1 and Auglaour RX1 are even smaller but closer to $30 than $5. Toneking has a 14mm shell diameter and the Auglamour RX-1 is 15.5mm instead of the usual 16 mm+ but I don't think they're as flat so they might not be as good for side sleepers but they should fit a small ear better.


----------



## chinmie

Marcos Fontana said:


> Hello guys!
> 
> I need a good indication of a nice earbud for my wife, but it need to have: sound quality, size (her ear is really small), low impendance (she will never use a amp) and low price. I was thinking about the monk lite. I have a pair of Zen LL and it fits really well on her ear. Do you know anything better? The best shoud be that one that you can fall sleep with it without any
> discomfort.



what's your budget? look for yuin styled shell. for that Zen lite type shell, i think the zen is the best in term of SQ, while the cheaper one would be monk lites and the qian 39. for yuin shell, the best is the SWD2+  and lot of other  for the cheaper one


----------



## RodRevenge

Willsound mk3 and Edifier h185 arrived today guys, pretty excited to try them.


----------



## teston

Forty6 said:


> Well if you wants to hear my take of how I feel about the zens paired with the 2 amp ok then , since your kind of music signature preferences of smooth and love playing loud music with the zens is of similar to my preference for warmth smoothing sounding Sig on loud , that means we're both at least on the same frequency level .
> Which make me feel won't waste quality time interacts with you .
> 
> but I have to tell you in advance , don't expect too much from my answer , if u want to ask very technical or very specific things then I'm not the one . There are better ones out there mainly because of my describing skill are very poor and not very good at finding the correct , proper or most suitable, appropriate words to describe something correctly.
> ...


Thanks so much for your impressions. I'll consider it.
As I'm more into the portable gears, the RA2bl is a little bulky, but the sound might worth it.


----------



## golov17

teston said:


> Thanks so much for your impressions. I'll consider it.
> As I'm more into the portable gears, the RA2bl is a little bulky, but the sound might worth it.


Shozy BK have 16 ohm, btw, not need amp for good sound


----------



## Forty6

teston said:


> but the sound might worth it.



Do consider Fellow zen owner if you like the way zen sounds to you .
Ultimately the sound is what we're after for . It would be a waste opportunity if one were to own a Zen but didn't get to experience its true colours .
At the end of the day , it's the end result which counts .


----------



## teston

golov17 said:


> Shozy BK have 16 ohm, btw, not need amp for good sound


I tried it some months ago. Its sound is good but it's not what I'm looking for.



Forty6 said:


> Do consider Fellow zen owner if you like the way zen sounds to you .
> Ultimately the sound is what we're after for . It would be a waste opportunity if one were to own a Zen but didn't get to experience its true colours .
> At the end of the day , it's the end result which counts .


Can't agree more. Just waiting for my payday and jump on the train.


----------



## Forty6

teston said:


> I tried it some months ago. Its sound is good but it's not what I'm looking for.
> 
> 
> Can't agree more. Just waiting for my payday and jump on the train.



Let me tell you , if after you pair up the zen with the runabout without experience any kick or any satisfaction feel very disappointed, never mind i will stand straight straight in front of you and you use that amp to hit me .


----------



## music4mhell

Back to music listening after many many months 
Thanks to Chord Poly, i never enjoyed my Zen black before like from last few days


----------



## 40760

music4mhell said:


> Back to music listening after many many months
> Thanks to Chord Poly, i never enjoyed my Zen black before like from last few days



That's a much more elaborate system of what I'm using right now.

Mine's Zen black and Mojo fed from an old MBP...


----------



## groucho69

I has arrived


----------



## jogawag (Oct 18, 2018)

groucho69 said:


> I has arrived


It was the beginning of the birth of a green line monster. . .


----------



## groucho69

jogawag said:


> It was the beginning of the birth of a green line monster. . .



Maybe the 2.5mm termination will make a difference.


----------



## RodRevenge

groucho69 said:


> I has arrived


How do hoy guys manage to use white foams mine start looking dirty quickly.


----------



## HungryPanda

RodRevenge said:


> How do hoy guys manage to use white foams mine start looking dirty quickly.


By changing them often


----------



## groucho69

This is new. Plus the foams are not as white as the bud, photos lie.


----------



## RodRevenge

The Willsound Mk3 is amazing guys, the hype is real, the build quality is amazing and the sound even better, they pair amazingly well with my music (prog rock/metal). On the other part the edifier H185 is MAYBE my favorite cheap bud, i like its bright presentation, focusing on mids and highs (imo) i recently discovered that i don't like much bass, actually the mk3's are in the borderline of perfect and too much, does anyone have a recomendation for this kind of sound signature? im thinking maybe Toneking tp16 and/or Tomahawk? is there anything else? under $50 preferable.


----------



## waynes world

RodRevenge said:


> * i recently discovered that i don't like much bass*


----------



## RodRevenge

groucho69 said:


> photos lie.


We are instagram now.


----------



## chinmie

RodRevenge said:


> The Willsound Mk3 is amazing guys, the hype is real, the build quality is amazing and the sound even better, they pair amazingly well with my music (prog rock/metal). On the other part the edifier H185 is MAYBE my favorite cheap bud, i like its bright presentation, focusing on mids and highs (imo) i recently discovered that i don't like much bass, actually the mk3's are in the borderline of perfect and too much, does anyone have a recomendation for this kind of sound signature? im thinking maybe Toneking tp16 and/or Tomahawk? is there anything else? under $50 preferable.



TP16 is more similar to EMX500, and Tomahawk is similar to the H185. i much prefer the H185 to the Tomahawk
 similar to MK3 would be SWD2+


----------



## RodRevenge

chinmie said:


> i much prefer the H185 to the Tomahawk


Why is that? 



chinmie said:


> TP16 is more similar to EMX500


Meh, i was hoping them to be more neutral and less bassy


----------



## seanc6441

RodRevenge said:


> Why is that?
> 
> 
> Meh, i was hoping them to be more neutral and less bassy


Do you use the thin ali foams? They make most buds sound more reference and open than thick foams.


----------



## RodRevenge

seanc6441 said:


> Do you use the thin ali foams? They make most buds sound more reference and open than thick foams.


No, i ordered but my parcel never arrived i may try to order them again.


----------



## seanc6441

RodRevenge said:


> No, i ordered but my parcel never arrived i may try to order them again.


That happened to one of mine, didnt bother to complain about it and hit order again and it arrived next time.

On the plus side the latest batch I got is considerably better in quality. Almost no defective foams, no tearing when applying them, overall more consistent thickness too. Either I got a really lucky good batch or the manufacturing process improved.

Either way you'll love em for the sound. They are worth all the bad QC, lost orders etc because they are the best foams for the least amount of money.

Also they seem to pair great doubled up with donuts if the fit is loose.


----------



## chinmie

RodRevenge said:


> Why is that?



the tomahawk, while it is good sounding, it's too aggressive and too forward sounding for my ears. it made my ears fatigued too quickly that i sold the Tomahawk the very next day.

also similar bright sounding to the H185 are the moondrop VX Pro and the Liebesleid


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 18, 2018)

chinmie said:


> the tomahawk, while it is good sounding, it's too aggressive and too forward sounding for my ears. it made my ears fatigued too quickly that i sold the Tomahawk the very next day.
> 
> also similar bright sounding to the H185 are the moondrop VX Pro and the Liebesleid


Tomahawk on a tube amp might be nice 

It was bright but was it Rose Mojito bright? From my memory when I had the tomahawk i felt it was quite sharp in the upper mids with a slightly artificial tonality but nothing like first hearing the mojito which has quite a jarring FR with it's recessed lower vocal range and bumped upper mids.

Maybe they peak in different areas and thus different for our ears.


----------



## Lothar101

I ordered a set of the EB2's from NiceHCK on 9/24 and according to various shipping programs they have been in the air since 10/6. Anything to worry about yet? All other shipments from them have been much faster. USPS says it's in Pre-Shipment.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Tomahawk on a tube amp might be nice
> 
> It was bright but was it Rose Mojito bright? From my memory when I had the tomahawk i felt it was quite sharp but nothing like first hearing the mojito.
> 
> Maybe they peak in different areas and thus different for our ears.



different kind of bright. the mojito is bright because of the recessed mid section, giving them a perceived distance between the music and the ears. this also makes the mojito's soundstage spacious and wide.

the Tomahawk is really intimate sounding, and while the treble is not too bright per se, but it's kinda "abrasive sounding"

i think eq would work on mojito, whereas using high impedance adapter might work to tame the tomahawk


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> different kind of bright. the mojito is bright because of the recessed mid section, giving them a perceived distance between the music and the ears. this also makes the mojito's soundstage spacious and wide.
> 
> the Tomahawk is really intimate sounding, and while the treble is not too bright per se, but it's kinda "abrasive sounding"
> 
> i think eq would work on mojito, whereas using high impedance adapter might work to tame the tomahawk


That's true my EQ'd mojito sounds more intimate and balanced with detail but a more natural less grainy-distant mid range. That's the only way I'll use it now.

I guess the tomahawk was pretty in your face but its so long since i heard it i cannot be sure of its exact sound.


----------



## Forty6 (Oct 19, 2018)

[/QUOTE]


seanc6441 said:


> Do you use the thin ali foams? They make most buds sound more reference and open than thick foams.



Bro , share the Link for the Ali thin foam ?


----------



## RodRevenge

Bro , share the Link for the Ali thin foam ?[/QUOTE]
https://es.aliexpress.com/item/100-...634729.html?shortkey=mI7vMvA7&addresstype=600 here you go friend.


----------



## Forty6

RodRevenge said:


> Bro , share the Link for the Ali thin foam ?


https://es.aliexpress.com/item/100-...634729.html?shortkey=mI7vMvA7&addresstype=600 here you go friend.[/QUOTE]

Many thanks bro


----------



## RodRevenge

I changed my mk3 to donut foams i definitely like them more, easily my best bud right now, and the edifier 185 is a close second im impressed by the price quuality ratio especially for metal lovers, it is less polished than the mk3 sure (and brighter, mk3 with donuts feel more neutral to me) but i love the raw sound they have they pair really good with Death and early Opeth. With the mk3 i have been rocking some Antonio Sanchez and Gojira, the mk3 protrays drums amazingly well.


----------



## subwoof3r (Oct 19, 2018)

RodRevenge said:


> here you go friend.


These a very good but extremely fragile, I already teared some by just trying to put them normally on MX500 classic shells. I recommend buying at least 3 lot of 100 foams (cost nothing anyway).


----------



## subwoof3r

ClieOS said:


> Fun, dynamic and ToTL. Nuff said.


And compared to Blox TM9 ?


----------



## ClieOS

subwoof3r said:


> And compared to Blox TM9 ?



TM9 is smooth and relaxing, which is quite different from MK1 Special. Otherwise the actual SQ isn't that far off.


----------



## RevPizzaguy

HungryPanda said:


> My new buds arrived too, RY G500 300 ohm with UE braided cable
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/GM5...phone-MX500-style-earphone-3/32843161170.html



Any word on these? Looking at picking up something else to try and curious how these compare to EMX500/RY4S.


----------



## mochill

ClieOS said:


> TM9 is smooth and relaxing, which is quite different from MK1 Special. Otherwise the actual SQ isn't that far off.


How much is the special edition


----------



## ClieOS

mochill said:


> How much is the special edition



$75 + shipping.


----------



## chinmie

mochill said:


> How much is the special edition



buy it. you need it


----------



## mochill

chinmie said:


> buy it. you need it


Do I now


----------



## mbwilson111

mochill said:


> Do I now



No!


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> No!



That's not very enabling of you!


----------



## mochill

mbwilson111 said:


> No!


Thank you for the replyB-)


----------



## subwoof3r

RevPizzaguy said:


> Any word on these? Looking at picking up something else to try and curious how these compare to EMX500/RY4S.


Also interested for that answer


----------



## subwoof3r

HungryPanda said:


> My new buds arrived too, RY G500 300 ohm with UE braided cable
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/GM5...phone-MX500-style-earphone-3/32843161170.html


Oh well... ordered !! 
I'm curious ^^


----------



## RuFrost

Compared two earbuds: Zen Black and K'Black Ling. (Both are for sale btw).
1) They are different. Very. But in the same time similar. Very. 

2) Both of them provide full-size headphone like experience. The more you listen to them, the more you understand it and the more involving they become. Both of them are dark sounding earbuds. I would compare them to LCD-3 from full size cans. Both of them are hard to drive to reveal their true potential. Aune m1s sounds best with Zen black. AK380 sounds best with K'Black Ling. I have tried ALO cv5 and micro BL with Zen Black - the sound was fine, but about 20% was still hided. I guess, its full potential can be realised with external amp which I wish to, at least, try. I'm going to have a chance to hear both of them with expensive amp\dac from sony, so will get more sides of it. Black Ling requires source to have very good 3 things: imaging, scene's size and detail's extraction. Imaging must be precise and accurate. Lings have equal couple-like shells which resonate a lot, so it requeries for source to build wide and deep scene at the same time. It is probably the most detailed earbuds I have ever heard. BS1 official on the same stage or similar. Micro detalization is just so fantastic...so the source must have ability to extract all even the smallest details from the song and be able to amp it correctly. Both earbuds are very technically developed, so the sound has really high resolution. Sometimes both of them can sound too dark\warm. Both of them depends a lot on foams chosen. Both of them has very different sound depending on foams. Two the most depending on foams earbuds ever. I like zen with new thin from VE and Lings with sort of the same or usual full thick one.

3) They are different in the way they portray the sound. Zen's sound comes from the middle and sort of radiating from it. It has very very strong bass hit, like punches of Mike Tyson. Vocals are moved to the back. Mids are very sweet, especially strings. Overall it has lots of echo, but average extension. Black Lings have metal body, so it extends and resonate well not due to the drivers' tuning, but due to the physical properties of its shells. So the same effect has its own taste. Overall they sound very balanced and everything seems on its place.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 19, 2018)

RuFrost said:


> Compared two earbuds: Zen Black and K'Black Ling. (Both are for sale btw).
> 1) They are different. Very. But in the same time similar. Very.
> 
> 2) Both of them provide full-size headphone like experience. The more you listen to them, the more you understand it and the more involving they become. Both of them are dark sounding earbuds. I would compare them to LCD-3 from full size cans. Both of them are hard to drive to reveal their true potential. Aune m1s sounds best with Zen black. AK380 sounds best with K'Black Ling. I have tried ALO cv5 and micro BL with Zen Black - the sound was fine, but about 20% was still hided. I guess, its full potential can be realised with external amp which I wish to, at least, try. I'm going to have a chance to hear both of them with expensive amp\dac from sony, so will get more sides of it. Black Ling requires source to have very good 3 things: imaging, scene's size and detail's extraction. Imaging must be precise and accurate. Lings have equal couple-like shells which resonate a lot, so it requeries for source to build wide and deep scene at the same time. It is probably the most detailed earbuds I have ever heard. BS1 official on the same stage or similar. Micro detalization is just so fantastic...so the source must have ability to extract all even the smallest details from the song and be able to amp it correctly. Both earbuds are very technically developed, so the sound has really high resolution. Sometimes both of them can sound too dark\warm. Both of them depends a lot on foams chosen. Both of them has very different sound depending on foams. Two the most depending on foams earbuds ever. I like zen with new thin from VE and Lings with sort of the same or usual full thick one.
> ...


Nice write up. It's amazing how we hear things differently as I consider the Ling Mild V shape so bordering bright in the treble and upper mids. The bass goes deep indeed and is punchy. The SS could be wider the could extend further out but that's the closed design coming into effect. The layering is top notch and the stage has depth to it. The low mids are a touch too recessed for balance's sake but it's nothing major, just moves the vocals (especially male) slightly further from the ear.

I'd consider it quite detailed especially in the micro details but still just slightly behind the Rose Mojito (because the mojito is tuned to push the most detail at the cost of a grainy midrange). I'd give the edge to the ling for having the better technicality and control, as it has better extension in the bass, a more refined treble with equal extension and the mids don't disappoint.

EDIT: Scratch all that, just found the perfect foams combo for the mojito, turned off the EQ and it's just bliss now. Only took me 6 months to realise the mojito is more an earspeaker than earbud... Any seal tight kills the sound but you still need the thicker foam to attenuate the treble just enough.

Solution is this:



double half foams using double sided tape. Seal is now almost gone so the bass tightens up but still has good depth. Very full balanced bass. Mids balance out more, only a touch towards a bright tilt. Treble becomes crisp but not sharp like before. The imaging has improved and the staging is more intimate but reaches very far. Night and day difference to before where it was overly wide and distant so sounds never had the intimacy to show off it's incredible separation and space.

Anyone with mojito needs to try this, it's now a smooth sounding earbud with solid bass and smooth clear mids and exceptional highs. I'm actually considering taking a pass on the new K's bud this is sounding so good now.


----------



## chinmie

mochill said:


> Do I now



it depends...on your curiosity, and self restrain


----------



## exavolt

PSA: You can start pre-ordering stuff for 11.11 sale on Ali.

What I've found so far:

NiceHCK EB2 will be $23 (from $27 if you use reference).
NiceHCK EBX will be around $81 (usually $120).


----------



## CasstardPie (Oct 20, 2018)

Just had a good day poking around old electronics stores. I managed to score a bunch of vintage Aiwa buds for next to nothing, all in working condition! Though the cables are gone and the plugs are oxidised so the connection cuts out. Gotta find someone for a recable soon

(Edit cause I didnt realise that HF censors quite a few words, even the milder ones)


----------



## golov17

CasstardPie said:


> Just had a good day poking around old electronics stores. I managed to score a bunch of vintage Aiwa buds for next to nothing, all in working condition! Though the cables are gone and the plugs are oxidised so the connection cuts out. Gotta find someone for a recable soon
> 
> (Edit cause I didnt realise that HF censors quite a few words, even the milder ones)


Any pics?


----------



## CasstardPie (Oct 20, 2018)

golov17 said:


> Any pics?



I believe it's the hp V14, though I'm not super sure. I'll post sound impressions soon


----------



## golov17

CasstardPie said:


> I believe it's the hp V14, though I'm not super sure. I'll post sound impressions soon


Nice. Enjoy!


----------



## iron2k (Oct 20, 2018)

exavolt said:


> PSA: You can start pre-ordering stuff for 11.11 sale on Ali.
> 
> What I've found so far:
> 
> ...


Datura-X  $16
Rosemary 150 ohms  $16.93
Snow-lotus 1.0  $8
Snow-lotus 2.0  $11.74
EB2  $22.87
Panda PK2  $15.95


----------



## rkw (Oct 20, 2018)

The Audio-Technica ATH-CM 2000 Ti is now on sale and available for audition at some shops in Japan:
https://www.e-earphone.jp/shopdetail/000000207244/

(Google translation)
 

http://e-earphone.blog/?p=1290471#


----------



## csglinux

I have some Blox TM9 earbuds up for sale. All reasonable offers/trades considered:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blox-tm9-for-sale-trade.891568/


----------



## seanc6441

csglinux said:


> I have some Blox TM9 earbuds up for sale. All reasonable offers/trades considered:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blox-tm9-for-sale-trade.891568/


I see you said you did measurements? Care to post them?


----------



## j4100

iron2k said:


> Datura-X  $16
> Rosemary 150 ohms  $16.93
> Snow-lotus 1.0  $8
> Snow-lotus 2.0  $11.74
> ...



Thanks for that. I was wondering what to buy. I have the last two, but the first four I might need to put on my list.


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> Thanks for that. I was wondering what to buy. I have the last two, but the first four I might need to put on my list.



Definitely the first two  I have those and the EB2.  Love them all.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Is VUNBUD real? They have been out of stock since they first released. Anybody with em?

Also how is Snow Lotus 2.0 comparable to emx500, or Datura-x?


----------



## j4100

BadReligionPunk said:


> Is VUNBUD real? They have been out of stock since they first released. Anybody with em?
> 
> Also how is Snow Lotus 2.0 comparable to emx500, or Datura-x?



I thought about buying the Vunbud for a while, but they didn't last long before they sold out. Haven't seen any impressions on here.


----------



## HungryPanda

I find the Snow Lotus 2.0 has a thicker more powerful bass signature than the EMX500


----------



## jant71

HungryPanda said:


> I find the Snow Lotus 2.0 has a thicker more powerful bass signature than the EMX500



Do you happen to know Snow Lotus 2.0 vs 1.0+ signature??


----------



## jant71

BadReligionPunk said:


> Is VUNBUD real? They have been out of stock since they first released. Anybody with em?
> 
> Also how is Snow Lotus 2.0 comparable to emx500, or Datura-x?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2267#post-14445232

Was thinking about them. They did come back in stock once when I was watching them but lasts a day perhaps as I'm sure there are not many units. Not quite enough impressions or talk to get me to pull the trigger.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

HungryPanda said:


> I find the Snow Lotus 2.0 has a thicker more powerful bass signature than the EMX500



Well that's encouraging to hear.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

jant71 said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2267#post-14445232
> 
> Was thinking about them. They did come back in stock once when I was watching them but lasts a day perhaps as I'm sure there are not many units. Not quite enough impressions or talk to get me to pull the trigger.


I try to check every few days for em, but have come up empty a few times. Looks and sounds like it may be a good bud. Been eyeing Svara L, yinman 150, and VUNBUD.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have not heard the Snow Lotus 1.0


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 21, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> I have not heard the Snow Lotus 1.0



You can listen to mine when I get one...

I wonder which option is best. I see 1.0 and 1.0 +.  Also there seems to be different cables.


----------



## doggiemom (Oct 21, 2018)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Is VUNBUD real? They have been out of stock since they first released. Anybody with em?
> 
> Also how is Snow Lotus 2.0 comparable to emx500, or Datura-x?


They are real but elusive...... and fantastic.  Thanks to @jant71 for the link.    I was very lucky to get them.  Adhi contacted me about an order I'd placed (was wanting some balanced Willsound buds but they were out of stock) and offered the VUNBUD since my original order couldn't be fulfilled.  Maybe email Adhi and let him know you are interested?

I won't be buying any new buds for a while:  had to cancel my credit card because apparently someone used it for a $1000 AirBNB stay.  Rude!  Oh well, I guess that is one way to keep from buying stuff.

Edited to say:  I have had the worst luck lately, I lost the HiBy that is in the picture with the VUNBUD at a customer site.  I think someone found it and is using it, because I've been getting messages occasionally when using Tidal that my account is in use by another client.


----------



## jant71 (Oct 21, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> You can listen to mine when I get one...
> 
> I wonder which option is best. I see 1.0 and 1.0 +.  Also there seems to be different cables.



I have read a few similar to this_..._


KevDzn said:


> I have the snow lotus 1.0 and 1.0+.
> Between those 2, snow lotus 1.0+ is by far more better sound wise. Bass is deep, mids are not recessed and treble is just right. Soundstage is wide. I did not get the snow lotus 2.0 so no comments on it.



...so interested in the 1.0+ over the 1.0


----------



## mbwilson111

jant71 said:


> I have read a few similar to this_...
> _
> ...so interested in the 1.0+ over the 1.0



Thanks.  A Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0 +  has been ordered


----------



## mbwilson111

doggiemom said:


> I won't be buying any new buds for a while: had to cancel my credit card because apparently someone used it for a $1000 AirBNB stay. Rude! Oh well, I guess that is one way to keep from buying stuff.
> 
> Edited to say: I have had the worst luck lately, I lost the HiBy that is in the picture with the VUNBUD at a customer site. I think someone found it and is using it, because I've been getting messages occasionally when using Tidal that my account is in use by another client.



That is horrible!  How do you think they got your card number.   

Is there any chance of finding who is using your Tidal account and track down the HiBy?    I hate that people do things like that.


----------



## jant71

mbwilson111 said:


> Thanks.  A Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0 +  has been ordered



Yeah, me too.  WTH, cheap enough and in the US so here within the week.


----------



## doggiemom

mbwilson111 said:


> That is horrible!  How do you think they got your card number.


Not sure.  I guess the downside of online commerce is that credit card fraud has become so much easier:  anyone who takes your card (at a restaurant, for example) just needs to jot down the info and the 3 or 4 digit code on the back and could use it online.  Could also be a security breach at a website that I shopped at.  It is a pain because I'll have to update all my billing accounts, but I am very glad that the bank I have the credit card with identified the problem so quickly:  they sent me a text asking if I'd made the charges, and asking me to call, so the charges never got past pending status.


mbwilson111 said:


> Is there any chance of finding who is using your Tidal account and track down the HiBy?    I hate that people do things like that.


I'm locked into an iPhone at work, so don't know much about Android.  iPhone does have the "find my iPhone" thing so you can see where your phone is located physically, but I don't know if Android has anything like that.  I asked in the HiBy thread.  I know I'm not going to get the device back, but I would like to keep whoever took it from using my account.  One of my colleagues was at the site I lost it at a couple of days later.  He looked for it and asked a bunch of people, so it is long gone.  Oh well....... totally my fault for not keeping better track of my stuff.  Fortunately, (and back on topic), the CampFred 2s that I used that day were safely put away in their case and stowed in my backpack.    I can buy another DAP, but the earbuds may not be replaceable!


----------



## seanc6441

doggiemom said:


> Not sure.  I guess the downside of online commerce is that credit card fraud has become so much easier:  anyone who takes your card (at a restaurant, for example) just needs to jot down the info and the 3 or 4 digit code on the back and could use it online.  Could also be a security breach at a website that I shopped at.  It is a pain because I'll have to update all my billing accounts, but I am very glad that the bank I have the credit card with identified the problem so quickly:  they sent me a text asking if I'd made the charges, and asking me to call, so the charges never got past pending status.
> 
> I'm locked into an iPhone at work, so don't know much about Android.  iPhone does have the "find my iPhone" thing so you can see where your phone is located physically, but I don't know if Android has anything like that.  I asked in the HiBy thread.  I know I'm not going to get the device back, but I would like to keep whoever took it from using my account.  One of my colleagues was at the site I lost it at a couple of days later.  He looked for it and asked a bunch of people, so it is long gone.  Oh well....... totally my fault for not keeping better track of my stuff.  Fortunately, (and back on topic), the CampFred 2s that I used that day were safely put away in their case and stowed in my backpack.    I can buy another DAP, but the earbuds may not be replaceable!


Im sure android has a similar feature, be sure to change your tidal PW or try unauthorise the device.

Google is your friend in order to find out how to do both.

Was it an R6 or R3 because R6 has android so might be findable if they didnt log out of your google account, r3 is just standalone tidal which may be trickier...


----------



## doggiemom

It was an R6.  I unauthorized the device on Tidal, but that only removes off line abilities.  The Tidal online doesn't work very well on the R6, so hopefully that will cause some frustration for whoever has it, LOL.

Those are good suggestions, thank you!


----------



## seanc6441

doggiemom said:


> It was an R6.  I unauthorized the device on Tidal, but that only removes off line abilities.  The Tidal online doesn't work very well on the R6, so hopefully that will cause some frustration for whoever has it, LOL.
> 
> Those are good suggestions, thank you!


Go to google on any signed in device like a pc with chrome web browser and type 'android find my phone' and the link to the google find my phone feature will show you any signed in devices and their location.

Hopefully whoever took your R6 was silly enough to keep it enabled and online.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

doggiemom said:


> They are real but elusive...... and fantastic.  Thanks to @jant71 for the link.    I was very lucky to get them.  Adhi contacted me about an order I'd placed (was wanting some balanced Willsound buds but they were out of stock) and offered the VUNBUD since my original order couldn't be fulfilled.  Maybe email Adhi and let him know you are interested?
> 
> I won't be buying any new buds for a while:  had to cancel my credit card because apparently someone used it for a $1000 AirBNB stay.  Rude!  Oh well, I guess that is one way to keep from buying stuff.
> 
> Edited to say:  I have had the worst luck lately, I lost the HiBy that is in the picture with the VUNBUD at a customer site.  I think someone found it and is using it, because I've been getting messages occasionally when using Tidal that my account is in use by another client.



Sorry to hear about the credit card and the HIBY.Anyway, on your suggestion I emailed and asked to be informed when I can buy one. Hopefully I can get one.


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> Go to google on any signed in device like a pc with chrome web browser and type 'android find my phone' and the link to the google find my phone feature will show you any signed in devices and their location.
> 
> Hopefully whoever took your R6 was silly enough to keep it enabled and online.


It was not able to contact the device, but I clicked "enable secure and erase."  Maybe that will do something?  Unfortunately I didn't have a screen lock set on it.  Lesson learned - when I eventually replace it (probably not with another Hiby as I loved that thing but it was quirky), I will do better about security for it.

I had 2 microSD cards in it with all the music I've bought over the years...... I hope whoever has it likes Taylor Swift.


----------



## seanc6441

doggiemom said:


> It was not able to contact the device, but I clicked "enable secure and erase."  Maybe that will do something?  Unfortunately I didn't have a screen lock set on it.  Lesson learned - when I eventually replace it (probably not with another Hiby as I loved that thing but it was quirky), I will do better about security for it.
> 
> I had 2 microSD cards in it with all the music I've bought over the years...... I hope whoever has it likes Taylor Swift.


If they are caught they should be subjected to 5 hours of 'we are never getting back together' on a loop 

That will teach em'!


----------



## rkw (Oct 21, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> I've been getting messages occasionally when using Tidal that my account is in use by another client.


Change the password on your Tidal account. It might not disable on the HiBy immediately, but apps of this type periodically re-sync the account between app and server. The server will force the app to sign out and require signing in again.

This will tell you when it last connected with your Google account: https://myaccount.google.com/device-activity. It also allows you to dissociate your Google account from the device, but then you will also lose ability to track it.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

jant71 said:


> I have read a few similar to this_..._
> 
> 
> ...so interested in the 1.0+ over the 1.0





chinmie said:


> what's your budget? look for yuin styled shell. for that Zen lite type shell, i think the zen is the best in term of SQ, while the cheaper one would be monk lites and the qian 39. for yuin shell, the best is the SWD2+  and lot of other  for the cheaper one


Ty very much! I will take a look around. Now, I need to get 2, one for my son 2...


----------



## singledot02

Any suggestions for LG V30 phone as DAP 
Sound Sig : Good Bass but not overwhelming with good separation and clarity and huge sound stage
Genre: all rounder i think? because i listen to HipHop, Alternative Rock, Metal, Pop, Classic ETC.
Detachable MMCX Cable is a Plus, but i knew some people who does modify it to MMCX.
Budget: $100 and below

thanks in advance..


----------



## Forty6

singledot02 said:


> Any suggestions for LG V30 phone as DAP
> Sound Sig : Good Bass but not overwhelming with good separation and clarity and huge sound stage
> Genre: all rounder i think? because i listen to HipHop, Alternative Rock, Metal, Pop, Classic ETC.
> Detachable MMCX Cable is a Plus, but i



Under 100 earbud for the LG V series would be that all time bang for buck monk+ .
I'm using monk+ with the Lg V20 with great synergy . Sound sig would most likely satisfy what you had pen out all the above .


----------



## HungryPanda

Linsoul BLD 150 ohm, sounds great with the LG V30


----------



## wazzupi

Im looking to get the zoe but i was wondering what the difference is between trrs and SE ? Will there be a discount on these ?!?


----------



## wazzupi

Any recommended foams I have the eb2 ?!?


----------



## BlackSpaceCat

Hello to all! Has anyone compared the "old" ($ 22-30) and "new" ($ 12-17) graphene (MX760)? Are there any differences in sound, how different are they?


----------



## Forty6

wazzupi said:


> Im looking to get the zoe but i was wondering what the difference is between trrs and SE ? Will there be a discount on these ?!?



TRRS is balanced so you'll need a balanced output from your source while the SE are for source with a 3.5mm single end output .

To decide which , that have to see which source you're using most of the time .
What device you're using atm ?


----------



## wazzupi

Forty6 said:


> TRRS is balanced so you'll need a balanced output from your source while the SE are for source with a 3.5mm single end output .
> 
> To decide which , that have to see which source you're using most of the time .
> What device you're using atm ?


Lg v30


----------



## HungryPanda

BlackSpaceCat said:


> Hello to all! Has anyone compared the "old" ($ 22-30) and "new" ($ 12-17) graphene (MX760)? Are there any differences in sound, how different are they?


 The "old" graphene has a bit more sub bass but they are alike in other respects


----------



## Forty6

wazzupi said:


> Lg v30



Then pick the SE if you don't have that plan to used it with a balanced source.


----------



## subwoof3r

@HungryPanda any thought then about your RY G500 300 ohm ? 
Especially compared (if possible) to Willsound MK2 and MX500S ?


----------



## Forty6

wazzupi said:


> Lg v30



But then even if you choose the Trrs version, VE will include a adaptor for you to use the trrs on a single end output .
The adaptor is free and comes with the Trrs version .
It look like this .

And you'll also get a Zen


 

 LL for free with the purchase .


----------



## Marcos Fontana

What's the difference between the Zen Lite and Zen LL? Anybody knows?


----------



## mbwilson111

Marcos Fontana said:


> What's the difference between the Zen Lite and Zen LL? Anybody knows?



The regular Zen Lite is  higher impedance and recommended for use with amps.  The Zen LL is lower impedance and recommended for phones.


----------



## waynes world

BadReligionPunk said:


> Sorry to hear about the credit card and the HIBY.Anyway, on your suggestion I emailed and asked to be informed when I can buy one. Hopefully I can get one.



Hehe me too. He's probably going to get overwhelmed with emails lol.


----------



## Audiostart

Was looking at Qian 39, RY4S, VE Monk (plus or lite) Faaeal Datura X, HE150 PRO (up to 30$). Listen mostly on Spotify (pop/rock) on Xiaomi MI A1 - phone amp has a problem with low impedance earphones, i get a hiss sound (common to this model, is not only my phone), so need it to be minimum 32 Ohm. I want to buy only one and live happily ever after, but i better have an explanation for Vido (my best earbud to date) !


----------



## toear

Audiostart said:


> Was looking at Qian 39, RY4S, VE Monk (plus or lite) Faaeal Datura X, HE150 PRO (up to 30$). Listen mostly on Spotify (pop/rock) on Xiaomi MI A1 - phone amp has a problem with low impedance earphones, i get a hiss sound (common to this model, is not only my phone), so need it to be minimum 32 Ohm. I want to buy only one and live happily ever after, but i better have an explanation for Vido (my best earbud to date) !


I have the Datura X and HE150 Pro. Both are awesome buds. Datura is more balanced while he150 is more L shaped in sound (better bass presentation)... For me it is dependent on source. Either are awesome!


----------



## Marcos Fontana

mbwilson111 said:


> The regular Zen Lite is  higher impedance and recommended for use with amps.  The Zen LL is lower impedance and recommended for phones.



I'm asking cause I have Zen LL and Zen 2. Is Zen Lite better in any aspect?


----------



## HungryPanda

subwoof3r said:


> @HungryPanda any thought then about your RY G500 300 ohm ?
> Especially compared (if possible) to Willsound MK2 and MX500S ?


 Here we go, The RY G500 needs a bit more power than both Willsound MK2 and EMX500s for a start so I had to try and volume level for comparison. Willsound MK2 has more bass although it seems cleaner and more controlled on the RY G500. The EMX500s bass is a bit woolly and uncontrolled. RY G500 seems to push upper mids more forward making vocals take prominence and sounding cleaner. My preference is Willsound MK2 > RY G500 > EMX500s. All three are good earbuds and I could happily listen to any of them.


----------



## mbwilson111

Marcos Fontana said:


> I'm asking cause I have Zen LL and Zen 2. Is Zen Lite better in any aspect?



I have never heard the Zen LL, only the Zen Lite.  I just know that about the difference in impedance.  The shells are the same as I am sure you know.  Maybe someone has both?


----------



## subwoof3r

HungryPanda said:


> Here we go, The RY G500 needs a bit more power than both Willsound MK2 and EMX500s for a start so I had to try and volume level for comparison. Willsound MK2 has more bass although it seems cleaner and more controlled on the RY G500. The EMX500s bass is a bit woolly and uncontrolled. RY G500 seems to push upper mids more forward making vocals take prominence and sounding cleaner. My preference is Willsound MK2 > RY G500 > EMX500s. All three are good earbuds and I could happily listen to any of them.


Thanks for your impression, appreciated 
Can't wait to receive my G500 pair!


----------



## csglinux

singledot02 said:


> Any suggestions for LG V30 phone as DAP


The V30 is awesome. Best-sounding DAP south of $1000, and best UI of any DAP at any price.
And you can find them second-hand these days for around $250.


----------



## mbwilson111

csglinux said:


> The V30 is awesome. Best-sounding DAP south of $1000, and best UI of any DAP at any price.
> And you can find them second-hand these days for around $250.



What????  Have you heard or used every DAP.  Will it hold two 400GB cards like my new iBasso dX120?


----------



## csglinux

mbwilson111 said:


> What????  Have you heard or used every DAP.  Will it hold two 400GB cards like my new iBasso dX120?


I think so. Well, most of them anyway. I previously owned the DX120 and DX200 and wouldn't swap my V30 for either, even though I now have to settle for only one paltry 400 Gb card plus streaming.


----------



## waynes world

csglinux said:


> I think so. Well, most of them anyway. I previously owned the DX120 and DX200 and wouldn't swap my V30 for either, even though I now have to settle for only one paltry 400 Gb card plus streaming.



I'm just glad that I found the Radsone ES100. It sounds great, and it means that I don't care how my phone sounds (ie I don't have to have the best sounding phone out there). But I can still use any of my phone's great players for control (ie Neutron, UAPP, Poweramp), stream Tidal, and I can have a fair amount of tunes stored on it (right now, I have a 200GB card, which will someday be a 512GB card once the prices have come down in 10 years lol).

Anyway, different strokes, but it's great to see so many options.


----------



## csglinux

waynes world said:


> I'm just glad that I found the Radsone ES100. It sounds great, and it means that I don't care how my phone sounds (ie I don't have to have the best sounding phone out there). But I can still use any of my phone's great players for control (ie Neutron, UAPP, Poweramp), stream Tidal, and I can have a fair amount of tunes stored on it (right now, I have a 200GB card, which will someday be a 512GB card once the prices have come down in 10 years lol).
> 
> Anyway, different strokes, but it's great to see so many options.


Anybody in the market for a BT receiver ought to also consider the Shanling M0. It's cheaper than the ES100 and has the same DAC/amp chipset as the V30. It supports AptX and LDAC and has a totally silent noise floor. Plus, when you don't want to use it as a BT receiver, it's also a DAP


----------



## Forty6 (Oct 22, 2018)

csglinux said:


> The V30 is awesome. Best-sounding DAP south of $1000, and best UI of any DAP at any price.
> And you can find them second-hand these days for around $250.



This I totally agree and share the same as yours. 
Actually the imho , apple aside, the only andrio mobile phones which could use it as a Dap with audiophile sounding quality standards are the LG V20 , 30 and the HTC one , M , U series , the LG V has the most audiophile class sounding than the HTC , the reason i include the HTC are not all because of their sounding quality but because of their 2 VRMS Headphone output , from my understand only  the LG V series and the above mentioned HTC series are the only android phones capable of 2vrms output .


----------



## wskl

wazzupi said:


> Im looking to get the zoe but i was wondering what the difference is between trrs and SE ? *Will there be a discount on these ?*!?



VE do not participate in sales.  They do offer deals every now and again though which are announced on their FB page.  However if you already have Zen 2 then you can get a discount on ZOE.




Marcos Fontana said:


> I'm asking cause I have Zen LL and Zen 2. Is Zen Lite better in any aspect?





mbwilson111 said:


> I have never heard the Zen LL, only the Zen Lite.  I just know that about the difference in impedance.  The shells are the same as I am sure you know.  Maybe someone has both?



Wild Lee said that Zen Lite has the better SQ when amped.  But I saw some comments from other people saying that they prefer Zen LL over Zen Lite so YMMV.


----------



## doggiemom

waynes world said:


> Hehe me too. He's probably going to get overwhelmed with emails lol.


Oh my goodness, what have I done?  I didn't think about that........ hope I haven't burned my bridges!


mbwilson111 said:


> I have never heard the Zen LL, only the Zen Lite.  I just know that about the difference in impedance.  The shells are the same as I am sure you know.  Maybe someone has both?


I have both.  Honestly, I have not spent much time with the Zen Lite.  I fall asleep every night to the Zen LL though.  The Zen Lite is closer in sound signature to the ZOE.  I like the Zen LL as it is not quite as dark.  (The slightly dark signature isn't because of amp'ing, I have plenty of power.   I just prefer its additional treble without being bright.)  The shells can't be beat for sleeping!


----------



## theresanarc

Audiostart said:


> Was looking at Qian 39, RY4S, VE Monk (plus or lite) Faaeal Datura X, HE150 PRO (up to 30$). Listen mostly on Spotify (pop/rock) on Xiaomi MI A1 - phone amp has a problem with low impedance earphones, i get a hiss sound (common to this model, is not only my phone), so need it to be minimum 32 Ohm. I want to buy only one and live happily ever after, but i better have an explanation for Vido (my best earbud to date) !



I think the Qian 39 is the cheapest of these and a completely different more comfortable shape than the other ones as well (excluding the Monk Lite) so you should probably try that one. I'm happy with mine, someone somewhere said it sounded grainy but my ear's aren't sophisticated enough to notice, sounds good to me. Only thing more comfortable would be an even smaller earbud which is as flat as the Qian 39 or Edifier H180. Though if you like the Vido then you probably like da bass in which case you should order another Vido lol.


----------



## RodRevenge

Audiostart said:


> Was looking at Qian 39, RY4S, VE Monk (plus or lite) Faaeal Datura X, HE150 PRO (up to 30$). Listen mostly on Spotify (pop/rock) on Xiaomi MI A1 - phone amp has a problem with low impedance earphones, i get a hiss sound (common to this model, is not only my phone), so need it to be minimum 32 Ohm. I want to buy only one and live happily ever after, but i better have an explanation for Vido (my best earbud to date) !


If you like Vido you could also pick the Faaeal Snow Lotus or the Yincrow X6, those have a darkish signature like the Vido.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

doggiemom said:


> Oh my goodness, what have I done?  I didn't think about that........ hope I haven't burned my bridges!
> 
> I have both.  Honestly, I have not spent much time with the Zen Lite.  I fall asleep every night to the Zen LL though.  The Zen Lite is closer in sound signature to the ZOE.  I like the Zen LL as it is not quite as dark.  (The slightly dark signature isn't because of amp'ing, I have plenty of power.   I just prefer its additional treble without being bright.)  The shells can't be beat for sleeping!



I felt in love with Zen LL. I got one with the ZOE and I got other (backup) when I bought the RunAbout.


----------



## wazzupi

Marcos Fontana said:


> I felt in love with Zen LL. I got one with the ZOE and I got other (backup) when I bought the RunAbout.


What about the zoe ?


----------



## exavolt

csglinux said:


> Anybody in the market for a BT receiver ought to also consider the Shanling M0. It's cheaper than the ES100 and has the same DAC/amp chipset as the V30. It supports AptX and LDAC and has a totally silent noise floor. Plus, when you don't want to use it as a BT receiver, it's also a DAP


I believe that its receiver codecs are only SBC and LDAC, which makes it very limited as BT receiver (unless the source is an Android Oreo++, you'll stuck with SBC codec). I think BTR3 is the budget version of ES100.


----------



## ClieOS

BTR3 has one distinct advantage: the new HWA codec. I thought LDAC waa great till I tried HWA, now I just stick to HWA as much as I can.


----------



## csglinux

exavolt said:


> I believe that its receiver codecs are only SBC and LDAC, which makes it very limited as BT receiver (unless the source is an Android Oreo++, you'll stuck with SBC codec). I think BTR3 is the budget version of ES100.


It supports SBC, AAC, AptX and LDAC.


----------



## HeadlessChicken

people with the NiceHCK EB2 and Faaeal Datura-X, which do you prefer and why? trying to decide which one to get during 11.11


----------



## snip3r77

Leyoo at FB has released pre-11.11 price .
Good stuff?


----------



## toear

HeadlessChicken said:


> people with the NiceHCK EB2 and Faaeal Datura-X, which do you prefer and why? trying to decide which one to get during 11.11


Eb2 with eq or Datura X. They are both great!


----------



## exavolt

toear said:


> Eb2 with eq


Which part you eq?


----------



## Marcos Fontana

wazzupi said:


> What about the zoe ?



Zoe is a nice earbud, but is darker them the Zen LL. You have more highs in Zen LL and more bass in Zoe with less highs, but without lose the balance. But the best thing in Zen LL is the shell. As someone said, it melts in your ear and you fell that you are using nothing. Both are amazing! I'm using the Zoe more nowadays, but I liked Zen LL so much that I bought one RunAbout just to get a backup of it. So, I bought the Zen LL and got one RunAbout lol. To be honest, I could sell everything except the Zen LL and the Zoe.


----------



## exavolt

ClieOS said:


> BTR3 has one distinct advantage: the new HWA codec. I thought LDAC waa great till I tried HWA, now I just stick to HWA as much as I can.


Thanks for this. Now I have a clear choice.

It supports HWA only in transmitter mode?


----------



## toear

exavolt said:


> Which part you eq?


BAAAASS!


----------



## ClieOS

exavolt said:


> Thanks for this. Now I have a clear choice.
> 
> It supports HWA only in transmitter mode?



Only as receiver. Android smartphone can install the FiiO Music app and enable the HWA support in software mode. You don't need to use FiiO app to play music. As long as the FiiO app is running in the background and HWA codec will be used. Selected HuaWei smartphone already has HWA built in.


----------



## exavolt

My Earbuds Confession

I only started buying gears late last year after years of not caring about musics. After I tried some of IEMs, I realized that I need something with low isolation because I need to be aware of my environment, whether at home or at office. Open back cans are an option, but it won’t fit well in an office environment as they leak.

Then a few clues pointed me toward earbuds.

Earbuds? Aren’t they obsolete? The last time I listened through any of them was probably two decades ago, and they were not that good in term of SQ (and looks). Look, even the big guys are directing their resources on cans and IEMs.

So I decided to order some from the suggested items in this thread. The first came to my door was EB2.

I am amazed. I am amazed at what this form could do, and the potential. To me, these things sound like miniature open-back cans. I was surprised because, as they are generally semi-open, I thought that they’ll lack of lows, but these have decent quality lows and, with good isolation, they could punch.

Now I know why you guys are all over earbuds.

This form is what I was looking for. Thanks for the recommendations. I think I am just starting out....


----------



## wazzupi

exavolt said:


> My Earbuds Confession
> 
> I only started buying gears late last year after years of not caring about musics. After I tried some of IEMs, I realized that I need something with low isolation because I need to be aware of my environment, whether at home or at office. Open back cans are an option, but it won’t fit well in an office environment as they leak.
> 
> ...


I had the same experience !! Eb2 was my first earbud in a decade minimum.


----------



## RodRevenge

exavolt said:


> My Earbuds Confession
> 
> I only started buying gears late last year after years of not caring about musics. After I tried some of IEMs, I realized that I need something with low isolation because I need to be aware of my environment, whether at home or at office. Open back cans are an option, but it won’t fit well in an office environment as they leak.
> 
> ...


My first bud was the Monk Plus after years of looking for good sounding buds (i didn't came across this page until way later) i still love my Monks they have an amazing distorted guitar sound (maybe due to a bumb arround on the 300 - 400hz).


----------



## waynes world

doggiemom said:


> Oh my goodness, what have I done?  I didn't think about that........ hope I haven't burned my bridges!



If generating more vunbud sales results in burning your bridges, then something's definitely wrong! 



ClieOS said:


> BTR3 has one distinct advantage: the new HWA codec. I thought LDAC waa great till I tried HWA, now I just stick to HWA as much as I can.





ClieOS said:


> Only as receiver. Android smartphone can install the FiiO Music app and enable the HWA support in software mode. You don't need to use FiiO app to play music. As long as the FiiO app is running in the background and HWA codec will be used. Selected HuaWei smartphone already has HWA built in.



Thanks for that info - I wasn't aware of HWA beforehand.


----------



## ClieOS

waynes world said:


> Thanks for that info - I wasn't aware of HWA beforehand.



Like Sony's LDAC, HWA is a BT lossless codec proposed by Huawei (though I believe it was originally developed by a Taiwan's software company, which Huawei acquired the right from). A few of the Chinese DAPs makers already adopted it onto the newer DAP, including FiiO, Hifiman and iBasso, as well as some of Huawei's newer smartphones. You can check out the list of companies that have pledged to support it here: https://www.hwa-lhdc.org/. My smartphone is a Sony Xperia so LDAC is already enabled when used with BTR3 - that allows me to switch between LDAC (Xperia's default) and HWA (via FiiO app), which the difference is much more obvious than changing cable on some headphone even though both claimed to be lossless. HWA just sounds fuller / less compressed than LDAC most of the time.


----------



## waynes world

ClieOS said:


> Like Sony's LDAC, HWA is a BT lossless codec proposed by Huawei (though I believe it was originally developed by a Taiwan's software company, which Huawei acquired the right from). A few of the Chinese DAPs makers already adopted it onto the newer DAP, including FiiO, Hifiman and iBasso, as well as some of Huawei's newer smartphones. You can check out the list of companies that have pledged to support it here: https://www.hwa-lhdc.org/. My smartphone is a Sony Xperia so LDAC is already enabled when used with BTR3 - that allows me to switch between LDAC (Xperia's default) and HWA (via FiiO app), which the difference is much more obvious than changing cable on some headphone even though both claimed to be lossless. HWA just sounds fuller / less compressed than LDAC most of the time.



Thanks again. Do you notice the difference also when streaming 320kbps music, or when playing 16/44.1 flac files? I think the answer you're going to give me is "yes".


----------



## csglinux

ClieOS said:


> Like Sony's LDAC, HWA is a BT lossless codec proposed by Huawei (though I believe it was originally developed by a Taiwan's software company, which Huawei acquired the right from). A few of the Chinese DAPs makers already adopted it onto the newer DAP, including FiiO, Hifiman and iBasso, as well as some of Huawei's newer smartphones. You can check out the list of companies that have pledged to support it here: https://www.hwa-lhdc.org/. My smartphone is a Sony Xperia so LDAC is already enabled when used with BTR3 - that allows me to switch between LDAC (Xperia's default) and HWA (via FiiO app), which the difference is much more obvious than changing cable on some headphone even though both claimed to be lossless. HWA just sounds fuller / less compressed than LDAC most of the time.


The problem with LDAC (other than being more proprietary nonsense) is that, like with most BT connections, you don't know in advance what you're going to get. It can transmit at 990, 660, or 330 kbps, depending on hardware, handshake and connection quality. There's not much information out there about the LHDC codec that is HWA, beyond the obvious disingenuous marketing that shows how much better it is than SBC (well, duh, anything's better than SBC):

https://www.hwa-lhdc.org/how-it-works

Theoretically, LDAC can achieve higher bandwidths than LHDC.

It'd be interesting to know whether LHDC is yet more proprietary nonsense that Huawei are just trying to monetize or whether it will actually bring about some common, open platform that might actually improve BT quality for the good of the world. The cynic in me suspects the former.


----------



## mbwilson111

HeadlessChicken said:


> people with the NiceHCK EB2 and Faaeal Datura-X, which do you prefer and why? trying to decide which one to get during 11.11





toear said:


> Eb2 with eq or Datura X. They are both great!





exavolt said:


> Which part you eq?




I have both and would not want to have to give up either.  So, get them both.  You will be happy  you did.  I do not feel the need to use EQ with either... actually I do not use EQ with anything.


----------



## mbwilson111

doggiemom said:


> I have both. Honestly, I have not spent much time with the Zen Lite. I fall asleep every night to the Zen LL though. The Zen Lite is closer in sound signature to the ZOE. I like the Zen LL as it is not quite as dark. (The slightly dark signature isn't because of amp'ing, I have plenty of power.  I just prefer its additional treble without being bright.) The shells can't be beat for sleeping!



Last night after reading your post my husband and I traded.... his Zen LL (150ohm) for my Zen Lite (300ohm).  Neither had been used in awhile. It was a logical trade because he uses amps more than I do.  Even when sitting at my desk (where I have an excellent dac/amp setup)  I often use my buds or iems plugged into one of my better DAPs.   He almost always is plugged into his desktop amp when at home.    They both have the same comfortable shell and cool looking cable.  I think they both sound great.

I do have portable amps that I can use with my DAPs but I am finding I prefer the freedom of using just the one device.

My Zen LL terminates in a 2.5mm balanced plug (and includes a single ended adapter) so I am excited to be able to use it with the balanced output on my newest DAP the iBasso DX120 and one of my older DAPs the Opus #1


----------



## Carrow

So apparently Rholupat release their own models from time to time. Their Asoka bud is seemingly a modded Edifier H180, definitely picking this up! http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone/asoka.html


----------



## MisterMudd

exavolt said:


> My Earbuds Confession
> 
> I only started buying gears late last year after years of not caring about musics. After I tried some of IEMs, I realized that I need something with low isolation because I need to be aware of my environment, whether at home or at office. Open back cans are an option, but it won’t fit well in an office environment as they leak.
> 
> ...


I started with IEMs way back when, which was OK for a few years, but the problem I had back then was getting a good seal. They did not have the choice in tips available back then. So, I just focused on full size headphones for the next five years. Then, I bought the original Monk earbud and was totally blown away at the sound quality, and over the years I have tried a dozen or so different buds. I like the form factor a lot, and even budget earbuds are giving you much better sound now. I still save my bigger budget for full size cans, but man, some of those budget earbuds with my Radsone ES100 produce a stellar experience. Enjoy the music!


----------



## theresanarc (Oct 23, 2018)

Carrow said:


> So apparently Rholupat release their own models from time to time. Their Asoka bud is seemingly a modded Edifier H180, definitely picking this up! http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone/asoka.html



Nice find, would like to hear more feedback on that one, if it's worth the nearly $40 price difference (probably not if all he did was change the cable and used the same driver and everything else).

That shell is my favourite so far and I don't understand why more sellers aren't using that shell instead of the mediocre MX500 shell, I'm fairly certain it's a cheap shell too considering the price of the H180 or Qian39.


----------



## handwander

No Svara L sale for 11.11 yet. EBX is like 50% off though 




theresanarc said:


> Nice find, would like to hear more feedback on that one, if it's worth the nearly $40 price difference (probably not if all he did was change the cable and used the same driver and everything else).
> 
> That shell is my favourite so far and I don't understand why more sellers aren't using that shell instead of the mediocre MX500 shell, I'm fairly certain it's a cheap shell too considering the price of the H180 or Qian39.


Incoming replies about how the MX500 is the peak of humanity's achievement when it comes to earbud shells.


----------



## ClieOS

waynes world said:


> Thanks again. Do you notice the difference also when streaming 320kbps music, or when playing 16/44.1 flac files? I think the answer you're going to give me is "yes".



The difference is observable even with Sportify. Don't really have any lossless music on my smartphone as it is not my main music player since it doesn't have a lot of storage on board (*blaming hybrid sims slot for that, as I need to use two sims so I can't use microSD card anymore).. If I am really looking into best SQ, I'll generally use one of my DAP instead.


----------



## HungryPanda

handwander said:


> No Svara L sale for 11.11 yet. EBX is like 50% off though
> 
> 
> 
> Incoming replies about how the MX500 is the peak of humanity's achievement when it comes to earbud shells.


nuff said


----------



## ClieOS (Oct 23, 2018)

csglinux said:


> The problem with LDAC (other than being more proprietary nonsense) is that, like with most BT connections, you don't know in advance what you're going to get. It can transmit at 990, 660, or 330 kbps, depending on hardware, handshake and connection quality. There's not much information out there about the LHDC codec that is HWA, beyond the obvious disingenuous marketing that shows how much better it is than SBC (well, duh, anything's better than SBC):
> 
> https://www.hwa-lhdc.org/how-it-works
> 
> ...



A few more info on this: again, HWA (LHDC) isn't invented / developed by Huawei, but by a Taiwan company (Savitech, which also made hardware, mainly small DAC chip). Huawei's main interest in this is to have a more open lossless codec than LDAC (*while LDAC is free to use for encoding, you still need to pay Sony a license fee to use it for decoding, that means each BT headset / DAC that supports LDAC needs to pay up.). As far as I know, HWA currently is free for both encoding and decoding, even though a free license is still required for anyone who wants to use it. Hence why you are seeing so many companies already jumping on the HWA's train where Sony's LDAC still get relatively small support after all these time. That being said, at least at this point monetizing is not a goal for either Huawei or Savitech (which still provide the technical support for HWA). 

There is also one main advantage that HWA has over LDAC - the later resamples audio into 24/96 before sending it over BT connection, where the former doesn't. This, in theory, means audio is better preserved with HWA, especially when it is not natively 24/96.


----------



## csglinux

ClieOS said:


> A few more info on this: again, HWA (LHDC) isn't invented / developed by Huawei, but by a Taiwan company (Savitech, which also made hardware, mainly small DAC chip). Huawei's main interest in this is to have a more open lossless codec than LDAC (*while LDAC is free to use for encoding, you still need to pay Sony a license fee to use it for decoding, that means each BT headset / DAC that supports LDAC needs to pay up.). As far as I know, HWA currently is free for both encoding and decoding, even though a free license is still required for anyone who wants to use it.


That's encouraging news! Thanks for the info


----------



## toear

mbwilson111 said:


> I have both and would not want to have to give up either.  So, get them both.  You will be happy  you did.  I do not feel the need to use EQ with either... actually I do not use EQ with anything.


I don't normally eq anything either.... This was a bit of a compromise for me and the Eb2. Don't get me wrong  It sounds great without eq for many genres, but for techno or electronic stuff I just find the bass gets buried. It's there.... Just not enough for my tastes. Easy enough fix and happy medium. Ymmv....  MB is actually correct though... Get both!


----------



## RodRevenge

Enjoying some Plini with the Willsound Mk3, amazing pairing.


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> nuff said



You're endorsing the EBX, are you?


----------



## exavolt

handwander said:


> No Svara L sale for 11.11 yet. EBX is like 50% off though


Easy. Get EBX while it's on sale. You can get Svara L later as its price probably won't change.


----------



## handwander

exavolt said:


> Easy. Get EBX while it's on sale. You can get Svara L later as its price probably won't change.


I'm too poor! And after the "depth" size comparisons a few pages back I was looking forward to the Svaras. Only bud I was interested in for 11.11 actually (unless some random good looking diy pk shell goes on sale)


----------



## HungryPanda (Oct 24, 2018)

I just recieved the Linsoul DTM A8 earbuds which have mmcx connectors. Very nice they are. Those are cut down pk1 shells


----------



## singledot02

HungryPanda said:


> I just recieved the Linsoul DTM A8 earbuds which have mmcx connectors. Very nice they are. Those are cut down pk1 shells


reviews please...


----------



## Carrow (Oct 24, 2018)

theresanarc said:


> Nice find, would like to hear more feedback on that one, if it's worth the nearly $40 price difference (probably not if all he did was change the cable and used the same driver and everything else).
> 
> 
> That shell is my favourite so far and I don't understand why more sellers aren't using that shell instead of the mediocre MX500 shell, I'm fairly certain it's a cheap shell too considering the price of the H180 or Qian39.



Have asked for some more details about this as I'm curious too 

EDIT: @theresanarc Got this back from Rholupat, does this answer your question?


----------



## Zerohour88

11. sale is starting and it seems my main 2 target, the EBX and K's 300 Samsara is within my range (sadly not both since I also need a new monitor):

I think this is the K's Samsara? around 100 bux for the 300:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-2341332192.44.22c8ea4f0Bx9p3&id=557799084201

I don't have any particular sound sig, though I would like it if the mids are not recessed (usually not a problem with earbuds)

in terms of sonic qualities, which would be best, NiceHCK EBX at $82 or the K's 300 Samsara at $100/115 (the 2 options are cables, not sure what the effects are)?


----------



## waynes world

handwander said:


> I'm too poor! And after the "depth" size comparisons a few pages back I was looking forward to the Svaras. Only bud I was interested in for 11.11 actually (unless some random good looking diy pk shell goes on sale)



Maybe try emailing the seller and asking if/when they will be going on sale, or if they would provide you with a discount. Never hurts to try 



HungryPanda said:


> I just recieved the Linsoul DTM A8 earbuds which have mmcx connectors. Very nice they are. Those are cut down pk1 shells



Those seem intriguing. When you can, please let me know how they compare with the 150's. Thanks!


----------



## chaiyuta

Not sure whether there is anyone is still interested on the Crystalcore Audio DIY-brand or not. Here is my brief impression. Last week, I did trial-listening Super Kryptonite 32 Ohm. The brand owner brought it together with SWD2+, and let me back and forth trail-listening between both. Super Kryptonite 32 Ohm is more all-rounder and energetic overall frequency impact than SWD2+. While SWD2+ does more focus on vocal with thicker and bigger vocal&bass imaging in a trade of worse instuments&vocal positioning. For example, when listening a music track having 3+ singers or instruments waving sound from left to right and vice versa. Super Kryponite did it distinctly outperform. Personally I prefer Super Krytonite over SWD2+.


----------



## HungryPanda

The Linsoul DTM A8 have a much bassier sound signature although mids and treble are fine


----------



## theoutsider

exavolt said:


> Easy. Get EBX while it's on sale. You can get Svara L later as its price probably won't change.


you are very smart


----------



## Carrow

FAAEAL Datura-X RIP. The right earbud has had issues with the front popping off randomly, but the innards came out today as well and they're not staying put. Right earbud driver's probably kaput. For sturdy metal earbuds they really don't hold up well. Press F to pay respects.

F


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 24, 2018)

waynes world said:


> Thanks again. Do you notice the difference also when streaming 320kbps music, or when playing 16/44.1 flac files? I think the answer you're going to give me is "yes".


The difference I notice is the detail is buttery smooth and coherent on lossless. I didn't think I'd be able to discern a difference but i did a test between 128 mp3, 320mp3 and lossless flac and i got 5/6 correct for lossless.

320 is better than 128 for sure, but lossless is just the icing on the cake. It sounds fuller and smoother but with all the detail present.

I'll still use spotify at 320 but i definitely hear the benefit of lossless and if given the choice would opt for it everytime.


----------



## seanc6441

csglinux said:


> The V30 is awesome. Best-sounding DAP south of $1000, and best UI of any DAP at any price.
> And you can find them second-hand these days for around $250.


I agree the v30 sounds phenomenal, if it had a built in parametric EQ id never want to use another device. The sound is just sooo good.

Sold my R6 and cayin n5ii for the v20 and now got the v30+ which to me is the better dap overall.

128gb internal + SD slot... Plenty of space.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> The difference I notice is the detail is buttery smooth and coherent on lossless. I didn't think I'd be able to discern a difference but i did a test between 128 mp3, 320mp3 and lossless flac and i got 5/6 correct for lossless.
> 
> 320 is better than 128 for sure, but lossless is just the icing on the cake. It sounds fuller and smoother but with all the detail present.
> 
> I'll still use spotify at 320 but i definitely hear the benefit of lossless and if given the choice would opt for it everytime.



Fyi, we were discussing "in the context of LDAC codec versus HWA/LHDC codec".


----------



## csglinux

seanc6441 said:


> I agree the v30 sounds phenomenal, if it had a built in parametric EQ id never want to use another device.


UAPP has a built-in parametric EQ that you can buy as an in-app purchase. (It's not system-wide, but UAPP is probably all you'd ever really want to use anyway for a music app because of the 48 kHz Android re-sampling issues:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/music-apps-tips-and-tricks-for-the-lg-v30.868978/ It correctly handles all forms of on-device playback through the quad DAC and also supports a bunch of streaming services .)


----------



## HungryPanda

Carrow said:


> FAAEAL Datura-X RIP. The right earbud has had issues with the front popping off randomly, but the innards came out today as well and they're not staying put. Right earbud driver's probably kaput. For sturdy metal earbuds they really don't hold up well. Press F to pay respects.
> 
> F


In one word.... Glue


----------



## HungryPanda

Also 128k mp3, makes me think of stone axes, useful once


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Oct 24, 2018)

Anyone here try t-music buds? Cant find any reviews but the comments seem good
Here's a link
2018 New V5 High Impedance In Ear Earphone Earbud 400ohms Flat Head Plug Graphene Dynamic Driver Unit High Impedance Earphone
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cWchXzcG
Or if anyone has tried INNTAK HIFI SM400S?
Here's that link
Upgraded Vesion INNTAKHIFI SM400S 400ohms Flat Head Earbud Graphene Dynamic Driver Unit High Impedance In Ear Earphone 
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/c9I7Z0XO


----------



## mbwilson111

Themilkman46290 said:


> Anyone here try t-music buds? Cant find any reviews but the comments seem good
> Here's a link
> 2018 New V5 High Impedance In Ear Earphone Earbud 400ohms Flat Head Plug Graphene Dynamic Driver Unit High Impedance Earphone
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cWchXzcG



What is happening with the links lately... these ones that start with s.click just take me to the ali front page.

I have the T-Music V2... very good impressive sound.


----------



## mbwilson111

Found the link to the V5 but they want as much for shipping to the UK as they do for the bud.  

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...Plug-Graphene-Dynamic-Driver/32862696536.html


----------



## seanc6441

csglinux said:


> UAPP has a built-in parametric EQ that you can buy as an in-app purchase. (It's not system-wide, but UAPP is probably all you'd ever really want to use anyway for a music app because of the 48 kHz Android re-sampling issues:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/music-apps-tips-and-tricks-for-the-lg-v30.868978/ It correctly handles all forms of on-device playback through the quad DAC and also supports a bunch of streaming services .)


I know but i use spotify


----------



## HungryPanda

seanc6441 said:


> I know but i use spotify


you poor guy


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> you poor guy


Indeed, I'm afraid that once I 'start' a flac collection I'll be on an endless search for albums and tracks!


----------



## mbwilson111

This other vendor INNTAKHIFI  also has the V5 and also free shipping to the UK.  Not sure why the UK is different from some of the other countries for T Music.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hig...Graphene-Dynamic-Driver-Unit/32871958308.html


----------



## HungryPanda

And hard drives


----------



## HungryPanda

mbwilson111 said:


> This other vendor INNTAKHIFI  also has the V5 and also free shipping to the UK.  Not sure why the UK is different from some of the other countries for T Music.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hig...Graphene-Dynamic-Driver-Unit/32871958308.html


T Music don't like us Brexiteers


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> T Music don't like us Brexiteers



Nobody does.  I don't.


----------



## HungryPanda

I thought our past with all the invading and subjugation was nasty, this withdrawing from our European neighbours makes me sick


----------



## csglinux

seanc6441 said:


> Indeed, I'm afraid that once I 'start' a flac collection I'll be on an endless search for albums and tracks!


I think there's something going on with Spotify's compression beyond what they admit to, and beyond the nasty re-sampling the Spotify app will give you on the V30. I used to use Spotify on my X7ii, but its SQ is just meh. (And I'm not golden-eared enough to reliably A/B FLAC vs 256 kbps AAC vs a well-encoded mp3.)

I know they have a reasonable music selection though. Might be worth asking the UAPP dev if he has plans to add Spotify support?


----------



## Carrow

HungryPanda said:


> In one word.... Glue



Was thinking that, will give it a shot tomorrow when I get time - right earbud driver's sound has gone all quiet and tinny so it might be a bud issue on that side!


----------



## Danneq

HungryPanda said:


> I thought our past with all the invading and subjugation was nasty, this withdrawing from our European neighbours makes me sick



Let's keep politics out of this place (however personally I applaud you brits for leaving the more and more Soviet like EU. We europeans do not need something like the EU of today to get along. The only positive thing with the EU is the free trade zone but that can be arranged without a superstate like struture)


----------



## seanc6441

csglinux said:


> I think there's something going on with Spotify's compression beyond what they admit to, and beyond the nasty re-sampling the Spotify app will give you on the V30. I used to use Spotify on my X7ii, but its SQ is just meh. (And I'm not golden-eared enough to reliably A/B FLAC vs 256 kbps AAC vs a well-encoded mp3.)
> 
> I know they have a reasonable music selection though. Might be worth asking the UAPP dev if he has plans to add Spotify support?


Spotify will release a lossless or hifi service like tidal has, ill try that out when it arrives and see if its worth the price.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Oct 24, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> Also 128k mp3, makes me think of stone axes, useful once


Like back when my desktop computer hdd was 40gb. Lol.  How in the hell did we live back then? I still have a large amount of 128 mp3 that I downloaded from eMusic back when it was $10 a month unlimited downloads.  Most sound pretty awful now that 320 lame is a thing.
Stone ages for sure.


----------



## csglinux

Is there any connection between the Sennheiser MX500 and the EMX500 buds (besides the similar naming convention)?


----------



## seanc6441

csglinux said:


> Is there any connection between the Sennheiser MX500 and the EMX500 buds (besides the similar naming convention)?


The shell


----------



## csglinux

seanc6441 said:


> The shell


Thanks buddy! Sorry for the nooby earbud question, but how does the sound differ between the two?


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Spotify will release a lossless or hifi service like tidal has, ill try that out when it arrives and see if its worth the price.



Do you know what rmthe price will be? Hopefully not $20/month USD.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 24, 2018)

csglinux said:


> Thanks buddy! Sorry for the nooby earbud question, but how does the sound differ between the two?


That I don't know as I've only heard the mx365 and 370. The shell is legendary by now though, although the emx500 uses different drivers, and i wouldn't be surprised if the original mx500 sounded quite different, maybe not quite as good.

After hearing the emx500 again recently (bought a 10 pack of drivers for my diy earbud project) im again impressed by its performance and i feel like it has great tuning potential if you could tweak the bass slightly (deeper sub and tighter mid bass) and get the best out of it detail wise.

The soundstage and balance of the FR is truly impressive for the price. Gonna try upgraded cables, metals shells and different front covers on them to see how it can change.


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> Do you know what rmthe price will be? Hopefully not $20/month USD.


Not sure, i use the very budget friendly family plan, hopefully the hifi isn't too much extra.


----------



## exavolt

waynes world said:


> Do you know what rmthe price will be? Hopefully not $20/month USD.


It's said +$5 (or +$10?) on top of premium. But there's no update and no official info about it (searched their site and found only some discussions).


----------



## Slmes

Does anyone know where I can buy ear fins like VE's separately? 
Thank you.


----------



## exavolt (Oct 25, 2018)

Slmes said:


> Does anyone know where I can buy ear fins like VE's separately?
> Thank you.


Try using this search term: earbud ear hooks

This store has various types https://www.aliexpress.com/store/gr...123.html?spm=2114.12010615.0.0.79892f77Sw2eMe

edit: update to a better link.


----------



## fairx

My ry4s UE cable just arrived. Just curious how many hour burn in? What can I expect? 

OOTB it's sound very nice indeed but stage is not very big(in my standard} similar to vido I guess? 

Tried using with and without foams. I like it both, no shouty peaks anywhere even in high volume. Tight adequate bass and quite linear actually. No problem handling busy track so far. I'd say for the price it's crazy good. Too bad no case  included. Just simple pack with obligatory foams. 

Initial listening using my Ip6 and Spotify.. Will report later


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 25, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Spotify will release a lossless or hifi service like tidal has, ill try that out when it arrives and see if its worth the price.



Good luck with that, I don't think it will ever happen. I've been following the thread below from 2014 and there has been ONE update from Spotify in all that time about a year ago, and nothing since.  

Spotify hasn't even changed it's status to 'Under Consideration'. But IF they do, and it's a big IF, you can bet it will be prob $20/mo.



> *Updated on 2017-10-27*
> 
> Thanks to everyone for their contribution to this thread. We really appreciate it. We haven't updated the status in a while and we're here to let you know we think this is a Good Idea. This doesn't mean it is in our current timeline, just that we like this idea. If this idea does become a part of our plans we'll change this to 'Under Consideration'. Until then just keep leaving your feedback here so we can pass it on internally. Thank you!




https://community.spotify.com/t5/Li...Streaming-16bit-44-1khz/idi-p/700006#comments


----------



## Audiostart

So right now what quality is Spotify streaming? There is a "high quality" under settings in app I think.


----------



## seanc6441

Audiostart said:


> So right now what quality is Spotify streaming? There is a "high quality" under settings in app I think.


It's at 320kbps.


----------



## seanc6441

Blueshound24 said:


> Good luck with that, I don't think it will ever happen. I've been following the thread below from 2014 and there has been ONE update from Spotify in all that time about a year ago, and nothing since.
> 
> Spotify hasn't even changed it's status to 'Under Consideration'. But IF they do, and it's a big IF, you can bet it will be prob $20/mo.
> 
> ...


Awh i thought it was official after hearing so much talk about it...

Lossless spotify would be the dream, spotify has such an amazing catelog of music and the UI is excellent.

They could also do with a good EQ for android users too, but everything else i like about the service.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

I find Spotify's "extreme" setting sounds pretty damn good ftmp.  I can live with it easily...


----------



## fairx (Oct 25, 2018)

Just back at home. Plug my ip 6 to o2 amp (low gain) and ry4s sings.!!  Perhaps only 3-4 hour max burn in. But amping really unleash this beast mode.

Best bass texture I ever heard from all my earbud so far. Just right amount of rumble and strictly controlled. 

Listening to mostly chesky binaural ATM. And all I can focus now is how good the bass quality is. Stage also expanded a bit but still not the widest IMO.

Edit. Just listened to Feeling yourself disintegrate by The Flaming Lips. Crazy amount of detail make my jaw dropped.  This alone made the whole purchase a solid steal.  The hype is real guys. 

As I type this, Weeknd's starboy just kick in and demm the bass is absolute gorgeous !!! 

And while I'm fixing some typo Saleem's Antara Sutra Dan Bulan kick in. Again so much detail I never heard before. Oh yeah on another note,,  RIP Saleem (he died last week), such a loss..

To be honest as of now I don't even care if further burn in will get better or not. Period.


----------



## waynes world

Blueshound24 said:


> Good luck with that, I don't think it will ever happen. I've been following the thread below from 2014 and there has been ONE update from Spotify in all that time about a year ago, and nothing since.
> 
> Spotify hasn't even changed it's status to 'Under Consideration'. But IF they do, and it's a big IF, you can bet it will be prob $20/mo.



I started off with the $10/month spotify plan, then thought that I needed Tidal`s $20/month plan, then got angry about paying $20/month (I`m also paying $10/month for Frisky Radio, so that doesn`t help), so I went down to the $10/month Tidal plan. I can`t really say if I notice a difference tbh, nevertheless I really wish that someone had a $10/month hi-res plan - that would make everyone happy in waynes world!


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> I started off with the $10/month spotify plan, then thought that I needed Tidal`s $20/month plan, then got angry about paying $20/month (I`m also paying $10/month for Frisky Radio, so that doesn`t help), so I went down to the $10/month Tidal plan. I can`t really say if I notice a difference tbh, nevertheless I really wish that someone had a $10/month hi-res plan - that would make everyone happy in waynes world!


The difference is not obviously apperant and there's so many other factors like the mastering quality used etc that it's not worth abandoning spotify premium unless you have very resolving gear and feel that the extra 5% is worth it.

I really had to focus to know what I was hearing differently, but once you realise what lossless sounds like compared to 320 mp3 I did *almost* reliably tell the difference (5/6 is no coincidence i feel).

I think spotify 320 sounds very good, just not perfect. It's by no means bad or even quality, it's quite good overall.


----------



## golov17

http://www.headpie.net/2018/10/the-...Zed4n8vNslEzxCLMjgXB9T7MiM9C-_WzhWFLWW_whnxX0


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 25, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> It's at 320kbps.




Yup, 320kbps. And, to my ears, downloaded 256kbps from iTunes sounds better to me. For a while I was paying for three different streaming services including Tidal. I really liked Tidal over Spotify but didn't want to fork out that extra $20/mo for higher quality, however, much worse U.I., selection and discovery.

EDIT: Sorry OT.


----------



## Forty6

golov17 said:


> http://www.headpie.net/2018/10/the-...Zed4n8vNslEzxCLMjgXB9T7MiM9C-_WzhWFLWW_whnxX0



Thanks for sharing . i enjoy  the reading man .


----------



## Danneq

Finally got a notice from Swedish customs that they have my pair of SWD2+. The ransom (import tax + customs fees) is 522 SEK, around $58.

Well, I still got them cheaper than if I had bought them at full price... ($199.50 @ Massdrop +$6 shipping + $58 in ransom from Swedish customs still is cheaper than $319...)


----------



## nihontoman

got my Qianyun Qian 69 earbuds and I have some impressions to share with you.

Let me start with my limited experiences with earbuds in general- I've had seahf entry level buds and faael 64 ohms (they are now called snow lotus I think). Liked both, especially Faaels because of their very natural timbre and real sounding tonality. liked the seahfs too, for their better ability to seperate details. That said both of these phones were limited in their abilities in one way or another. Faaels, even though they sound exceptional with anything instrumental, quickly lose focus on more electronical music (even rock) and their lower base regions are not there. These do sound very thick and kinda powerful and lush, but only in higher base regions. Once something with lower baseline starts to play, faaels just fail to reproduce the frequencies. Same story with seahfs - these sound kinda thinner and quicker, slightly less natural in timbre, but very detailed. Also, lower base frequencies (due to their recessed mids I'd say and thinner overall sound) are heard more here, but not close to any iems.

This brings us to the Qian 69 - these sound very lush, spacey, and thick. Timbre is natural and doesn't sound fake and/or wrong - the qualities only heard in Faael up until now. 

extension is pretty good up top - not kz zs5v1 level extended and detailed, but still very good. Never sounded shrill, unnatural or plasticky or metalic. sibilance for me is nonexistent and presence is definitelly there. Not remember what frequencies are responsible for presence though  

Mids are forwardish, definitelly moreso than the highs. I'd say mids are very balanced and highs are slightly tamed - not rolled off as with the Faaels, mind you, extended, but not too much in terms of decibels. Female vocals and male vocals have lot's of texture. it's like every particle of spit that escapes the artists lips during singing is audible in these  male voices are thick and weighty and female vocies are lush and liquid but detailed (remember spit particles). Instruments sound very normal - be it strings or wind instruments, they sound distinctly normal and present, which is kinda rare, considering many iems and buds color them in a weird way. Previously only faaels could do this level of naturality in any of my gear (iems, full size headphones wjat have you), but now I have Qian 69, and these are natural the same way.

What is special for these buds though is the base frequencies, especially the lower lows. Let me get this straight - no, sub base isn't as good and extended as zs5 v1. nothing I've had is that good. BUT, what is amazing for the Qian 69 is that these are only earbuds I've tried that are enjoyable on synthetic baselines of edm, hip-hop and other similar genres of music. Even though they are not linear till 20 hz, you could listen to hiphop on these and hear and FEEL almost alll of the sub-baseline, except for those abismally low lows... sub base and base is also very arriculate and quite fast too, not wooly and or slow. I think that this in conjunction with very natural timbre gives these buds some kind of special superpowers  

I'm very impressed with the sound overall. It can be best described as tye earbuds of natural timbre with lots of texture and details and surprisingly well extended frequency range, especially lows. I think everyone should get these and listen to them. These are too good.

physically they are pretty comforatble, they cable is ok, thin but feels good enough and the case is a nice bonus


----------



## Blueshound24

Danneq said:


> Finally got a notice from Swedish customs that they have my pair of SWD2+. The ransom (import tax + customs fees) is 522 SEK, around $58.
> 
> Well, I still got them cheaper than if I had bought them at full price... ($199.50 @ Massdrop +$6 shipping + $58 in ransom from Swedish customs still is cheaper than $319...)




Really looking forward to your impressions of the SWD2+ when you've had a chance to check them out


----------



## MRK1

I haven't lurked here in ages but I recently came across a ridiculously good sounding pair of earbuds. I bought them because I needed a cheap pair of earbuds with mic to toss around without much care, so I expected nothing, but man these delivered to the point I got rid of my 5 pairs of VE Monks (yes, I'm still using them) and got another pair of these. 

Anyway they're the Meliconi Mysound Speak Flat, which I bought for 8€ on Amazon. It's an Italian brand but I'm sure they can be easily obtained anywhere. 

These sound way way better than the monk. Really enjoyable sound with powerful bass even without any foams (for earbuds at least). The sound is more full bodied and less tinny than the monk, the difference is night and day really. If you have 10 euros to waste give them a try. Definitely the best cheapo earbuds I tried so far.


----------



## iron2k

Just to let you know, I got confirmation form RY Earphone Store that RY4S with UE cable will be on 11.11 Sale.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 26, 2018)

MRK1 said:


> I haven't lurked here in ages but I recently came across a ridiculously good sounding pair of earbuds. I bought them because I needed a cheap pair of earbuds with mic to toss around without much care, so I expected nothing, but man these delivered to the point I got rid of my 5 pairs of VE Monks (yes, I'm still using them) and got another pair of these.
> 
> Anyway they're the Meliconi Mysound Speak Flat, which I bought for 8€ on Amazon. It's an Italian brand but I'm sure they can be easily obtained anywhere.
> Edit
> These sound way way better than the monk. Really enjoyable sound with powerful bass even without any foams (for earbuds at least). The sound is more full bodied and less tinny than the monk, the difference is night and day really. If you have 10 euros to waste give them a try. Definitely the best cheapo earbuds I tried so far.



First, I just want to say that I find my Monk Plus full bodied and not tinny at all.  Is yours the old Monk or the Monk Plus?  

I am always intrigued by cheap buds and what they can do so I did find this MySound on Amazon Uk and ordered an open box one in grey/white for 5 pound.  Brand new ones were double that.  I hope it is safe to order open box buds.  If it does not look clean I will return it.  It will arrrive Saturday.

edit... will arrive Monday.  A new one would have arrived Saturday.  Maybe the open box one is coming from Italy.


----------



## waynes world

nihontoman said:


> got my Qianyun Qian 69 earbuds and I have some impressions to share with you.
> 
> Let me start with my limited experiences with earbuds in general- I've had seahf entry level buds and faael 64 ohms (they are now called snow lotus I think). Liked both, especially Faaels because of their very natural timbre and real sounding tonality. liked the seahfs too, for their better ability to seperate details. That said both of these phones were limited in their abilities in one way or another. Faaels, even though they sound exceptional with anything instrumental, quickly lose focus on more electronical music (even rock) and their lower base regions are not there. These do sound very thick and kinda powerful and lush, but only in higher base regions. Once something with lower baseline starts to play, faaels just fail to reproduce the frequencies. Same story with seahfs - these sound kinda thinner and quicker, slightly less natural in timbre, but very detailed. Also, lower base frequencies (due to their recessed mids I'd say and thinner overall sound) are heard more here, but not close to any iems.
> 
> ...



Sounds like my kind of buds! I had to stop using the satura x's to fall asleep to because they are a bit thick and uncomfy for me. I've been using the qian 39's, but the 69's seem like they have more of my preferred sig, and they look comfy. I think I'll get them!



MRK1 said:


> I haven't lurked here in ages but I recently came across a ridiculously good sounding pair of earbuds. I bought them because I needed a cheap pair of earbuds with mic to toss around without much care, so I expected nothing, but man these delivered to the point I got rid of my 5 pairs of VE Monks (yes, I'm still using them) and got another pair of these.
> 
> Anyway they're the Meliconi Mysound Speak Flat, which I bought for 8€ on Amazon. It's an Italian brand but I'm sure they can be easily obtained anywhere.
> 
> These sound way way better than the monk. Really enjoyable sound with powerful bass even without any foams (for earbuds at least). The sound is more full bodied and less tinny than the monk, the difference is night and day really. If you have 10 euros to waste give them a try. Definitely the best cheapo earbuds I tried so far.



Hmm, I might need to get those too!



iron2k said:


> Just to let you know, I got confirmation form RY Earphone Store that RY4S with UE cable will be on 11.11 Sale.



I can't find mine. I'll have to add them to the cart as well. Not much more room lol!


----------



## snip3r77

iron2k said:


> Just to let you know, I got confirmation form RY Earphone Store that RY4S with UE cable will be on 11.11 Sale.



I’d definitely cart it


----------



## nihontoman

waynes world said:


> Sounds like my kind of buds! I had to stop using the satura x's to fall asleep to because they are a bit thick and uncomfy for me. I've been using the qian 39's, but the 69's seem like they have more of my preferred sig, and they look comfy. I think I'll get them




oh, definitelly get these. for 10-ish bucks, these are too awesome


----------



## fairx

iron2k said:


> Just to let you know, I got confirmation form RY Earphone Store that RY4S with UE cable will be on 11.11 Sale.


Maybe i’ll get another one as spare. Will pick HI cable with red shell color. If the driver is same I might recable with blue UE to easily differentiate left and right.


----------



## snip3r77

fairx said:


> Maybe i’ll get another one as spare. Will pick HI cable with red shell color. If the driver is same I might recable with blue UE to easily differentiate left and right.


Not sure how does hi cable compared to UE cable


----------



## exavolt (Oct 26, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> Not sure how does hi cable compared to UE cable


We only need to wait @fairx 's report 





Currently listening some hard rock using RY4S. These have addictive sound.


----------



## subwoof3r

Finally received my EB2 replacement pair today!
After burning them for 5 hours yet, they sound completely different from my previous pair. I much prefer the previous one!
The new one has now the same L and R volume balance, but sound completely off and much veiled in all freqs. No details, sound is muffled, bass has much less texture, etc. Very strange..
Let burn them for a couple of days, I will report back later.


----------



## golov17 (Oct 26, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> Finally received my EB2 replacement pair today!
> After burning them for 5 hours yet, they sound completely different from my previous pair. I much prefer the previous one!
> The new one has now the same L and R volume balance, but sound completely off and much veiled in all freqs. No details, sound is muffled, bass has much less texture, etc. Very strange..
> Let burn them for a couple of days, I will report back later.


Crap.. waiting my next pair now..


----------



## Willber

golov17 said:


> Crap.. waiting my next pair now..


Mine are pre-ordered for 11/11 ($23) - hopefully they will have sorted out any issues by then...


----------



## golov17

Willber said:


> Mine are pre-ordered for 11/11 ($23) - hopefully they will have sorted out any issues by then...


Amen.. i hope too..


----------



## fairx

For that price I don't mind ordering one or two. Might as well order the ordinary ry4s as well. For science . 

I notice today the amping issue with ry4s UE is real. Straight from phone it sounded good but I tend to skip song every time. connect to amp and I'm hooked to the song (whatever random song from shuffle) from start to finish. The change is so drastic  I'm having hard time believing  since I found ry4s is more efficient compared to monk+ or t-music v2.  From my 2v line out source I only need 11 o'clock on my o2 (1x gain) to reach decent volume.


----------



## golov17

fairx said:


> For that price I don't mind ordering one or two. Might as well order the ordinary ry4s as well. For science .
> 
> I notice today the amping issue with ry4s UE is real. Straight from phone it sounded good but I tend to skip song every time. connect to amp and I'm hooked to the song (whatever random song from shuffle) from start to finish. The change is so drastic  I'm having hard time believing  since I found ry4s is more efficient compared to monk+ or t-music v2.  From my 2v line out source I only need 11 o'clock on my o2 (1x gain) to reach decent volume.


Purchased more than two years ago .. still sound great )))


----------



## tronth (Oct 26, 2018)

So guys, I am wondering which earbuds to get. I am between the Monk lite, Monk +, RY4S, Snow lotus 1.0 and Snow lotus 2.0. What do you guys think? Any other suggestion? I dont want to expend more than 10-15 bucks in 2 or 3 earbuds.

I am also curious, do we have high impedance (+100 ohms) earbuds under 10 dollars? I know the Monk lite (120 ohms) which cost 20 euros with shipping.


----------



## iron2k

tronth said:


> So guys, I am wondering which earbuds to get. I am between the Monk lite, Monk +, RY4S, Snow lotus 1.0 and Snow lotus 2.0. What do you guys think? Any other suggestion? I dont want to expend more than 10-15 bucks in 2 or 3 earbuds.
> 
> I am also curious, do we have high impedance (+100 ohms) earbuds under 10 dollars? I know the Monk lite (120 ohms) which cost 20 euros with shipping.


Maybe EMX500 and Yincrow X6


----------



## RevPizzaguy

tronth said:


> So guys, I am wondering which earbuds to get. I am between the Monk lite, Monk +, RY4S, Snow lotus 1.0 and Snow lotus 2.0. What do you guys think? Any other suggestion? I dont want to expend more than 10-15 bucks in 2 or 3 earbuds.
> 
> I am also curious, do we have high impedance (+100 ohms) earbuds under 10 dollars? I know the Monk lite (120 ohms) which cost 20 euros with shipping.



So far, I have the Monk Lite (40ohm), Snow Lotus 1.0+, and the Moondrop Nameless. As for sound, the Monk Lite 40ohm definitely are a mids-forward bud, but have a very nice open soundstage with pleasant highs. The detail seems to be a little rough on the high end, but easy to live with. They have a rolled off low end, so don't expect much there. Overall, good for the money. The Snow Lotus 1.0+ have a much more present bottom end down to about 29Hz, much better than the Monk Lites. The mids are more recessed than the Monk Lites, but very pleasant for vocals. The high end seems a bit more rolled off, not as much sparkle as the Monk Lites, but not bad at all. I'd like for them to have a bit more detail in the highs, but so far, these are my favorites of the three I mentioned.

The Moondrop Nameless are a big disappointment for me. The low end is very rolled off and there is an unpleasant peak around 6-7KHz that makes the highs a bit fatiguing for more than a few minutes at a time.

Just as a note, I try to let my earbuds burn in for at least 48 hours before really listening to them. The sound on the Monk Lites completely changed from out of the box to 50 hours, and smoothed out even further after about 100 hours total. The Snow Lotus 1.0+ weren't bad out of the box, but they have evened out a bit as I approach the 48 hour mark (just arrived Wednesday evening).


----------



## Willber

tronth said:


> So guys, I am wondering which earbuds to get. I am between the Monk lite, Monk +, RY4S, Snow lotus 1.0 and Snow lotus 2.0. What do you guys think? Any other suggestion? I dont want to expend more than 10-15 bucks in 2 or 3 earbuds.
> 
> I am also curious, do we have high impedance (+100 ohms) earbuds under 10 dollars? I know the Monk lite (120 ohms) which cost 20 euros with shipping.


My recommendations: EMX*S*-500 and RY4S *UE cable* - the bits in bold are important!


----------



## Narayan23

waynes world said:


> Sounds like my kind of buds! I had to stop using the satura x's to fall asleep to because they are a bit thick and uncomfy for me. I've been using the qian 39's, but the 69's seem like they have more of my preferred sig, and they look comfy. I think I'll get them!!



The Qian 69´s are the better earbud but the 39´s fare better as far as sleep duties are concerned (I use them exclusively for that), they have a much thinner stem and are more comfortable when you´re sleeping / resting on your side.


----------



## Willber

Narayan23 said:


> The Qian 69´s are the better earbud but the 39´s fare better as far as sleep duties are concerned (I use them exclusively for that), they have a much thinner stem and are more comfortable when you´re sleeping / resting on your side.


+1


----------



## ShabtabQ

waynes world said:


> Always nice to have partners is Svara L hype! I really do love them. Although now I am totally distracted by RY4S budget awesomesauce lol.



Can you share the RY4S link that you bought.


----------



## waynes world

Narayan23 said:


> The Qian 69´s are the better earbud but the 39´s fare better as far as sleep duties are concerned (I use them exclusively for that), they have a much thinner stem and are more comfortable when you´re sleeping / resting on your side.


----------



## waynes world

ShabtabQ said:


> Can you share the RY4S link that you bought.



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4...e-MX500-style-earphone-3-5mm/32820438211.html

Select one of the UE cable options.


----------



## Willber

Willber said:


> tronth said:
> 
> 
> > So guys, I am wondering which earbuds to get. I am between the Monk lite, Monk +, RY4S, Snow lotus 1.0 and Snow lotus 2.0. What do you guys think? Any other suggestion? I dont want to expend more than 10-15 bucks in 2 or 3 earbuds.
> ...


Also, the Vido is better than the Monk+ and Snow Lotus 1.0 IMO. And at around $2 they are a must buy.


----------



## Willber

waynes world said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4...e-MX500-style-earphone-3-5mm/32820438211.html
> 
> Select one of the UE cable options.


Yes, that's important.


----------



## subwoof3r

RY4S UE cable (blue) ordered !


----------



## Willber

subwoof3r said:


> RY4S UE cable (blue) ordered !


Blue cable is *NOT *UE! You need option 3 or 4 in the advert.


----------



## subwoof3r

Willber said:


> Blue cable is *NOT *UE! You need option 3 or 4 in the advert.


Yes, no worries, I ordered the UE cable but I mean blue color for shells  (I hesitated between black shells but my future GM500 pair will look the exact same so I choosed blue).


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> Blue cable is *NOT *UE! You need option 3 or 4 in the advert.




Option 3 is blue bud with UI cable.  Option 4 is black bud with UI cable.


----------



## Willber

subwoof3r said:


> Yes, no worries, I ordered the UE cable but I mean blue color for shells  (I hesitated between black shells but my future GM500 pair will look the exact same so I choosed blue).


Good man, I panicked a bit!


----------



## iron2k

subwoof3r said:


> RY4S UE cable (blue) ordered !


This will be on sale on 11.11 maybe you want to wait.


----------



## subwoof3r

mbwilson111 said:


> Option 3 is blue bud with UI cable.  Option 4 is black bud with UI cable.


I went for the option 3 (from the left), is that good?
I'm afraid if not, lol


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 26, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> I went for the option 3 (from the left), is that good?
> I'm afraid if not, lol



Yes that is the UE cable. It is a nice cable.


----------



## subwoof3r

mbwilson111 said:


> Yes that is the UI cable. It is a nice cable.


Ok thanks for the confirmation 
Btw, any difference between "UE" and "UI" cable ?


----------



## mbwilson111

subwoof3r said:


> Ok thanks for the confirmation
> Btw, any difference between "UE" and "UI" cable ?



Sorry, typo.  Fixed it ..UE.  Should not do this on tablet.  Will switch to PC


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> Sorry, typo.  Fixed it ..UE.  Should not do this on tablet.  Will switch to PC



Are you DUI?


----------



## tronth

Willber said:


> Also, the Vido is better than the Monk+ and Snow Lotus 1.0 IMO. And at around $2 they are a must buy.



What about snow lotus 2.0? The vido is this one? https://es.aliexpress.com/item/New-...ug-Earbud-Bass-HIFI-Earphone/32806045266.html



mbwilson111 said:


> Yes that is the UE cable. It is a nice cable.



I dont seem to find the good option, is there any difference between the brown and the white cable?

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/RY4S...&terminal_id=6510d2c05f1b4811bea3617ab2e72f9d

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/RY4S...?spm=a219c.10010108.1000023.14.1812212esFuE3X


----------



## tronth

Btw, are these GM500 300 ohms good? https://es.aliexpress.com/item/GM50...hm-calidad-de-sonido-de-alta/32843161170.html


----------



## iron2k

tronth said:


> What about snow lotus 2.0? The vido is this one? https://es.aliexpress.com/item/New-...ug-Earbud-Bass-HIFI-Earphone/32806045266.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...


any of these 2


----------



## Willber (Oct 26, 2018)

tronth said:


> What about snow lotus 2.0? The vido is this one? https://es.aliexpress.com/item/New-NICEHCK-DIY-Earbud-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbud-Dynamic-Flat-Head-Plug-Earbud-Bass-HIFI-Earphone/32806045266.html


I don't have the SL 2.0.

This is the Vido I bought:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Spo...361.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.5cdc4c4dfsETmJ

(The actual buds have 'Vido' printed on them, unlike the picture.)


----------



## jant71

Willber said:


> Also, the Vido is better than the Monk+ and Snow Lotus 1.0 IMO. And at around $2 they are a must buy.



I know Snow-Lotus 1.0 wasn't that great. I do have Snow-Lotus 1.0+ and Vido and can say the 1.0+ is better than the Vido. Nearly the same signature but the Vido is a bit grainy and less refined. Nicer cable and prettier blue slightly better build quality and more accs. may be worth the extra $$$.


----------



## Willber

jant71 said:


> I know Snow-Lotus 1.0 wasn't that great. I do have Snow-Lotus 1.0+ and Vido and can say the 1.0+ is better than the Vido. Nearly the same signature but the Vido is a bit grainy and less refined. Nicer cable and prettier blue slightly better build quality and more accs. may be worth the extra $$$.


Thanks for that, but as I am happy with my recent RY4S UE and EMXS-500, with the EB2 on the way soon, I might give the SL 1.0+/2.0 a miss.

Then again...


----------



## jant71

Yep, with EMX500 and the UE you are there already. I just wanted a more fun/bassy compliment to the PT25 which is more towards neutral and accurate and had to try a Faaela finally.


----------



## tronth

So between R4YS and GM500, both EU cable, what would you choose?


----------



## BuddhaBruce

seanc6441 said:


> Spotify will release a lossless or hifi service like tidal has, ill try that out when it arrives and see if its worth the price.



Hey man, of the earbuds you own which are your favorite?


----------



## HungryPanda

tronth said:


> Btw, are these GM500 300 ohms good? https://es.aliexpress.com/item/GM50...hm-calidad-de-sonido-de-alta/32843161170.html


 I like the RY GM500 very much


----------



## MRK1 (Oct 26, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> First, I just want to say that I find my Monk Plus full bodied and not tinny at all.  Is yours the old Monk or the Monk Plus?
> 
> I am always intrigued by cheap buds and what they can do so I did find this MySound on Amazon Uk and ordered an open box one in grey/white for 5 pound.  Brand new ones were double that.  I hope it is safe to order open box buds.  If it does not look clean I will return it.  It will arrrive Saturday.
> 
> edit... will arrive Monday.  A new one would have arrived Saturday.  Maybe the open box one is coming from Italy.



I have both generations of Monk buds! Both sound tinny compared to these. Especially going back and forth the difference is big. The mysound has much deeper bass even when used without foams while retaining acceptable clarity and soundstage imo.

Please let me know if you like them when you get them. For 5 pounds, I won't feel too bad if you hate them


----------



## csglinux

BuddhaBruce said:


> Hey man, of the earbuds you own which are your favorite?



Great question! Could I ask that to everybody on this forum? I know this kind of goes against the grain of headfi in general, i.e., collecting insane numbers of headphones, but, if you had to spend the rest of your life on a desert island and could only take *one single set of earbuds* with you, which one would it be?

I'll start... Shozy BK.


----------



## BuddhaBruce

csglinux said:


> Great question! Could I ask that to everybody on this forum? I know this kind of goes against the grain of headfi in general, i.e., collecting insane numbers of headphones, but, if you had to spend the rest of your life on a desert island and could only take *one single set of earbuds* with you, which one would it be?
> 
> I'll start... Shozy BK.



The one's in his signature are all ones I've been looking at haha.


----------



## Willber

BuddhaBruce said:


> The one's in his signature are all ones I've been looking at haha.


If I hadn't spent so much on my (still growing) collection, I would be able to afford the best earbuds known to man.

But that's not the point, is it?


----------



## HungryPanda

csglinux said:


> Great question! Could I ask that to everybody on this forum? I know this kind of goes against the grain of headfi in general, i.e., collecting insane numbers of headphones, but, if you had to spend the rest of your life on a desert island and could only take *one single set of earbuds* with you, which one would it be?
> 
> I'll start... Shozy BK.


 I would have to pick the Sunrise SW Dragon II but as the cable is rather flimsy I don't think it would survive the trip to the desert island


----------



## tronth

For a Shanling M0, would it be wise to get some high impedance earbuds, or with the R4YS 32 ohms will it be fine?


----------



## csglinux

tronth said:


> For a Shanling M0, would it be wise to get some high impedance earbuds, or with the R4YS 32 ohms will it be fine?


It isn't fussy. It has enough power to drive high-impedance buds and a silent noise floor for any sensitive low-impedance buds.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 26, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> I would have to pick the Sunrise SW Dragon II but as the cable is rather flimsy I don't think it would survive the trip to the desert island




I've got a couple of questions:

1) RE: the UE cable. Why is it prefered? Is it copper or other?

2) Is the Sunrise SW Dragon II a prior model to the Simphonio Dragon 2+, or just a better version ? What are the signature differences?

TIA


----------



## ClieOS (Oct 27, 2018)

Blueshound24 said:


> I've got a couple of questions:
> 
> 1) RE: the UE cable. Why is it prefered? Is it copper or other?
> 
> ...



1) No particular opinion on it. The actual real UE cable on most of UE IEMs isn't really that great. I however have not tried the UE style cable on earbud to know. Those are not likely actual UE made cable, but only referred to a particular finishing.

2) SWD2 is the old model made by Sunrise (which already change its name to Simphonio a few months ago) about 6 yrs ago. It is still a very good earbud by today's standard, but not on the same level as the ToTL SWD2+.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 26, 2018)

BuddhaBruce said:


> Hey man, of the earbuds you own which are your favorite?


Hard to choose just one.

It's a toss up between Mojito (only with very specfic foam mods), Black Ling or EMX500(budget king IMO).

All I'll say is I'm very excited to try emx500 drivers with the custom earbuds I'm making... They impress me that much with certain mods/tweaks I really want to test on them. The driver itself is very capable and has a great frequency response IMO.


----------



## rkw

seanc6441 said:


> All I'll say is I'm very excited to try emx500 drivers with the custom earbuds I'm making... They impress me that much with certain mods/tweaks I really want to test on them. The driver itself is very capable and has a great frequency response IMO.


That's probably how all of those small earbud companies in Asia started out.

So... what are you going to call that new line of earbuds from Ireland?


----------



## DBaldock9

csglinux said:


> Great question! Could I ask that to everybody on this forum? I know this kind of goes against the grain of headfi in general, i.e., collecting insane numbers of headphones, but, if you had to spend the rest of your life on a desert island and could only take *one single set of earbuds* with you, which one would it be?
> 
> I'll start... Shozy BK.



It would have to be my Blur hALF/hALF (2.5TRRS, 150Ω).


----------



## snip3r77

DBaldock9 said:


> It would have to be my Blur hALF/hALF (2.5TRRS, 150Ω).


I don’t know but I feel blur is overpriced . I’d take willsound any time of the day


----------



## exavolt

rkw said:


> That's probably how all of those small earbud companies in Asia started out.


I believe that most of them started out by doing mix and match between the premade drivers with some common shells, and then do some tuning with filter materials and cables.


----------



## blackberriesandthinkpads (Oct 27, 2018)

Just read over 50 pages catching up to this thread :S.

So Audio Tehcnica's fancy pants buds are out, and no-one has heard them?!

An expensive little package showed up from Indonesia a couple days ago. The painful burn in period starts. Though I must say, I'm not overly impressed straight out of the box. Sure, better than my Monk+, but the burn in has to work miracles for what I paid. For now my Fostex X00 Ebony are still on my head.



Danneq said:


> He told me the same when we met in Tokyo in July. I brought my pair of CampFred 1 and he asked what foams I was using. I replied that I use thin VE foams. He said that he tunes the Cypherus earbuds to be used without foams. I used thin foams at first with ZoomFred but then switched to rubber rings with fins from the VE EX pack (but with the fins cut off). That's when the ZF really found their perfect sound. I do think that other Cypherus earbuds work well with foams, but mainly thin VE type foams because of the already good bass.



I find MX500 shells to be painful without foam, maybe it's just the mold marks applying pressure to my small ears. Then again I find them painful with anything thicker than VE thin foam. With VE thin foam, I can wear them almost forever with no fatigue. It's a pity he tunes his buds for use without foam (for my sake at least). I tested with VE thins mostly. I remember someone linked some SUPER thin foams somewhere in this thread, maybe I should order those. I may just sand down those mold marks when I get the time.



mochill said:


> Selling my TM9 , need money .pm me if in the usa



Mochill sold his TM9? I thought he'd sell a kidney before letting go of those. Unless he knows something we don't coming from Blox...



golov17 said:


> I would wait for an update from Blox (insiders)



What's with all this insider whispering about something coming from Blox? An update to the TM9? New bud altogether?



Danneq said:


> Finally got a notice from Swedish customs that they have my pair of SWD2+. The ransom (import tax + customs fees) is 522 SEK, around $58.
> 
> Well, I still got them cheaper than if I had bought them at full price... ($199.50 @ Massdrop +$6 shipping + $58 in ransom from Swedish customs still is cheaper than $319...)



Not too bad, I've paid much worse ransom. Looking forward to your SWD2+ comparison with your other buds. Though, from what I've read about your tastes and how that bud sounds, don't think you'll like it. I'll admit though I too was considering it when I saw them at $199.



ClieOS said:


> Fun, dynamic and ToTL. Nuff said.





ClieOS said:


> $75 + shipping.



The WillSound Special Edition sounds like stupid good value if it is truly TOTL. Link?

I'm very suprised that ClieOS has yet to hear a Cypherus bud...



csglinux said:


> I think so. Well, most of them anyway. I previously owned the DX120 and DX200 and wouldn't swap my V30 for either, even though I now have to settle for only one paltry 400 Gb card plus streaming.



Very interesting... I'm in the market for a good DAP, had my eyes on a DX200. Is the V30 really better than the DX200? How much time did you spend with your DX200? At the price point you can find a V30 for, that's some damn good value.

What's happening with K's Titanium? Still waiting for details on their low impedance version.



seanc6441 said:


> I'm saving up for the K's Titanium Ling.



Price? When? Where? Who? What? How? This damn earbud game...


----------



## golov17

@blackberriesandthinkpads 


Spoiler



Dear Oleg,
no final price yet,however it is not over 279 usd..
.. we just need a week now to fine tune in small
details.
should get them done around end of this month.
I will let you know once they are ready.
BR,
Woo


----------



## blackberriesandthinkpads (Oct 27, 2018)

golov17 said:


> @blackberriesandthinkpads
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



Update to the TM9, or a TM11?

I knew something was off when I saw Mochill list his TM9 for sale.

Hope I didn't make the wrong decision, wasn't expecting another release/update from Blox since they just put out the TM9. I don't like polite/smoothed sound. Fingers crossed my Indonesian buds break in wonderfully. This is going to be a painful wait...


----------



## golov17

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> Update to the TM9, or a TM11?
> 
> I knew something was off when I saw Mochill list his TM9 for sale.
> 
> Hope I didn't make the wrong decision, wasn't expecting another release/update from Blox since they just put out the TM9. I don't like polite/smoothed sound. Fingers crossed my Indonesian buds break in wonderfully. This is going to be a painful wait...


Just toys for boys )))


----------



## ClieOS (Oct 27, 2018)

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> The WillSound Special Edition sounds like stupid good value if it is truly TOTL. Link?
> 
> I'm very suprised that ClieOS has yet to hear a Cypherus bud...



On WillSound's Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/WillSound-355453261556612/

Pretty sure I have heard most Cypherus earbuds made before 2017. Met Herry @ Cypherus himself and his friends on CamJam Singapore as well as @rudi0504, between them most of Cypherus' earbuds were there and we actually had a mini earbuds meet for over an hour - Good time! Anyway, the main reason I don't own a Cypherus so far has nothing to do with their sound (*which are all excellent!!!), but the fact that I wholeheartedly hate thick cable and those that I am interested in (sound wise) just not going to work for me (cable wise).


----------



## snip3r77

ClieOS said:


> On WillSound's Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/WillSound-355453261556612/
> 
> Pretty sure I have heard most Cypherus earbuds made before 2017. Met Herry @ Cypherus himself and his friends on CamJam Singapore as well as @rudi0504, between them most of Cypherus' earbuds were there and we actually had a mini earbuds meet for over an hour - Good time! Anyway, the main reason I don't own a Cypherus so far has nothing to do with their sound (*which are all excellent!!!), but the fact that I wholeheartedly hate thick cable and those that I am interested in (sound wise) just not going to work for me (cable wise).



I missed can jam twice as I was away . Sad panda


----------



## subwoof3r

Unfortunately my RY4S payment has just been rejcted (bought too many earbuds these past weeks ^^ // joking).
I will finally wait 11.11 ali sales to buy not only RY4S, but Vido and Snow Lotus 1.0+ (and maybe 2.0 too) !! haha 
Thanks to all for your precious contributions on this thread, I'm now in a sort of earbuds foly ^^


----------



## exavolt

Having some buds with same shells could cause confusion. Do you guys have any suggestion for making nice labels directly on the buds or probably attached to the cables?



subwoof3r said:


> I will finally wait 11.11 ali sales to buy not only RY4S, but Vido and Snow Lotus 1.0+ (and maybe 2.0 too) !! haha


Where can I get SL1.0+? On Faaeal's Ali store, their pluses are greyed out (can't be selected).


----------



## trashboatdude

Hi, guys new here. Got a question, is there any difference between this EO320 on amazon compared to aliexpress https://www.amazon.com/1MORE-Dynamic-Earbuds-Earphones-Tangle-Free/dp/B06XJB49T7?th=1 . Theres a pretty big difference in pricing


----------



## Danneq

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> Not too bad, I've paid much worse ransom. Looking forward to your SWD2+ comparison with your other buds. Though, from what I've read about your tastes and how that bud sounds, don't think you'll like it. I'll admit though I too was considering it when I saw them at $199.



You might be right but I'll never know until I've tried them. I did like Moondrop Liebesleid. I still sold them because I prefer a more balanced sound instead of the main focus on upper mids and highs on Liebesleid. Musicmaker/Toneking Tomahawk are described as slightly bright but I really like them with metal despite being a bit sensitive to bright sound signatures. 

I am thinking of picking between SWD2+ and Shozy BK since I'd like one pair of TOTL earbuds with Yuin shell.


----------



## snip3r77

subwoof3r said:


> Unfortunately my RY4S payment has just been rejcted (bought too many earbuds these past weeks ^^ // joking).
> I will finally wait 11.11 ali sales to buy not only RY4S, but Vido and Snow Lotus 1.0+ (and maybe 2.0 too) !! haha
> Thanks to all for your precious contributions on this thread, I'm now in a sort of earbuds foly ^^



I’m just wondering what are the good stuff that has great discounts during 11.11


----------



## chinmie

Danneq said:


> You might be right but I'll never know until I've tried them. I did like Moondrop Liebesleid. I still sold them because I prefer a more balanced sound instead of the main focus on upper mids and highs on Liebesleid. Musicmaker/Toneking Tomahawk are described as slightly bright but I really like them with metal despite being a bit sensitive to bright sound signatures.
> 
> I am thinking of picking between SWD2+ and Shozy BK since I'd like one pair of TOTL earbuds with Yuin shell.



i think you would like the SWD2+ better than the BK


----------



## RodRevenge

ClieOS said:


> 1) No particular opinion on it. The actual real UE cable on most of UE IEMs isn't really that great. I however have not tried the UE style cable on earbud to know. Those are not likely actual UE made cable, but only referred to a particular finishing.
> 
> 2) SWD2 is the old model made by Sunrise (which already change its name to Simphonio a few months ago) about 6 yrs ago. It is still a very good earbud by today's standard, but not on the same level as the ToTL SWD2+.


Thank you for clarifying, im eyeing the r4ys but was deciding between the UE or that sexy red+white HI cable.


----------



## mochill

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> Just read over 50 pages catching up to this thread :S.
> 
> So Audio Tehcnica's fancy pants buds are out, and no-one has heard them?!
> 
> ...


Still have my TM9


----------



## groucho69

Current fav is Shozy Cygnus Balanced Edition....I have something on the way....


----------



## tronth

Guys, what's the difference between UE and HI cable?

I think I am going to buy the vido's to try them (2 euros is ridiculously cheap) and the R4YS for 8 euros, anything better at that price point?


----------



## BuddhaBruce

groucho69 said:


> Current fav is Shozy Cygnus Balanced Edition....I have something on the way....



How does the cyngus compare to the bk?


----------



## RevPizzaguy

exavolt said:


> Where can I get SL1.0+? On Faaeal's Ali store, their pluses are greyed out (can't be selected).



I got mine from Amazon

https://www.amazon.com/FAAEAL-Snow-lotus-Earphone-Quality-Earphones/dp/B07BQ4HT7Z


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 27, 2018)

RevPizzaguy said:


> I got mine from Amazon
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/FAAEAL-Snow-lotus-Earphone-Quality-Earphones/dp/B07BQ4HT7Z




Did yours come braided? Really like the *looks of* braided cable better.

It looks like the Snow-lotus 1.0 has the braided cable and the 1.0+ has the single cable (non-braided cable) ?

I wonder if there are any sound differences between them.


EDIT: 'looks of' added.


----------



## groucho69

BuddhaBruce said:


> How does the cyngus compare to the bk?



I do not have BK.

Also I wear buds sideways.


----------



## doggiemom

csglinux said:


> Great question! Could I ask that to everybody on this forum? I know this kind of goes against the grain of headfi in general, i.e., collecting insane numbers of headphones, but, if you had to spend the rest of your life on a desert island and could only take *one single set of earbuds* with you, which one would it be?
> 
> I'll start... Shozy BK.


Campfred 2.  Zoomfred is better in some ways, but the Campfred 2 cable is soft enough for portable use.


----------



## RevPizzaguy

Blueshound24 said:


> Did yours come braided? Really like the braided cable better.
> 
> It looks like the Snow-lotus 1.0 has the braided cable and the 1.0+ has the single cable (non-braided cable) ?
> 
> I wonder if there are any sound differences between them.



My 1.0+ has the cloth cable up to the split, then plastic jacket to the buds. I haven't tried the 1.0, but general consensus on this thread is that the 1.0 braided have a much inferior sound to the 1.0+.


----------



## tronth

Are these ones the right EMX500? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...Y-Earphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds/32887565850.html


----------



## iron2k (Oct 27, 2018)

tronth said:


> Are these ones the right EMX500? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...Y-Earphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds/32887565850.html



This one in clear

 **** DIY EMX500 In-ear Earphones Flat Head Plug Earphone HiFi Bass Earbuds DJ Earbuds Heavy Bass Sound Quality
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32789344867.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail&productId=32789344867&productSubject=****-DIY-EMX500-In-ear-Earphones-Flat-Head-Plug-Earphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds-DJ-Earbuds&spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.75bf63c0YiEnNR


----------



## mbwilson111

All of the links that people keep posting that start with s.click only lead to the front page not the item.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

tronth said:


> Are these ones the right EMX500? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...Y-Earphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds/32887565850.html


Those are exactly what I bought,  and they sound really good. Like I am blown away with them.  Love them.


----------



## iron2k

mbwilson111 said:


> All of the links that people keep posting that start with s.click only lead to the front page not the item.


You are right, here is again
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32789344867.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail&productId=32789344867&productSubject=****-DIY-EMX500-In-ear-Earphones-Flat-Head-Plug-Earphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds-DJ-Earbuds&spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.75bf63c0YiEnNR


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Oct 27, 2018)

Can anybody point me to a chart or list, or in someway briefly compare all of FAAEAL earbuds to me quickly. Having a hard time compiling info on them all.

Iris, snow lotus, rosemary, Narcissus, 32 ohm, 64 ohm, 150ohm ect.

I own Datura-X for reference.


----------



## HungryPanda (Oct 27, 2018)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Can anybody point me to a chart or list, or in someway briefly compare all of FAAEAL earbuds to me quickly. Having a hard time compiling info on them all.
> 
> Iris, snow lotus, rosemary, Narcissus, 32 ohm, 64 ohm, 150ohm ect.
> 
> I own Datura-X for reference.


Earbuds Anonymous of FB will jump in and help you there


----------



## seanc6441

BadReligionPunk said:


> Those are exactly what I bought,  and they sound really good. Like I am blown away with them.  Love them.


Try ali thin foams on them, excellent balance and tight punchy bass. Love how spacious and detailed it presents with that setup.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

seanc6441 said:


> Try ali thin foams on them, excellent balance and tight punchy bass. Love how spacious and detailed it presents with that setup.


That's what I originally put on them as soon as I got them. Liked them but after trying thin donuts, I settled on using those.


----------



## singledot02

Snow Lotus 1.0 or RY4S UE? they are about the same price right now @ali


----------



## exavolt

singledot02 said:


> Snow Lotus 1.0 or RY4S UE? they are about the same price right now @ali


I think people here are recommending the SL1.0+ (with plus), and it seems that they are not stocking the pluses at ali. I'll wait for them to restock the pluses. In the mean time, you might want to take RY4S UE. You won't be disappointed.


----------



## MisterMudd

Darn it. Been reading through this thread and now I am buying, buying, buying. Having a great time trying different buds though. Forgot how much I liked good sounding bargain buds since picking up the Monk OG way back (which I still have and use). Right now I like Vido for the bass and headroom, and Qian 39 for the amazing detail. Thanks to everyone who participates on this thread, and keep the recommendations coming!


----------



## wskl

Looks like AE sellers have now revealed their 11.11 pricing


----------



## Carrow

Anyone have recommendations for earbud storage boxes? I have enough pairs now that they seem necessary (they say as they make plans to buy some more next week)


----------



## exavolt

wskl said:


> Looks like AE sellers have now revealed their 11.11 pricing


there's pre-order price and sale price. some of them will have higher sale price than the pre-order price. For example, EB2 will be 22.87 with pre-order and 23.75 sale price.

For those looking for Svara L discount, AVCCK store will sell them at 54.00 from 59.76 / 58.32 (AliPrice says that they were only 49.68 in August).



Carrow said:


> Anyone have recommendations for earbud storage boxes? I have enough pairs now that they seem necessary (they say as they make plans to buy some more next week)


I use bolt organizer / small-parts organizer like this.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have three aluminium flight cases


----------



## RodRevenge

HungryPanda said:


> I have three aluminium flight cases


Thats a well equiped panda.


----------



## HungryPanda

RodRevenge said:


> Thats a well equiped panda.


 And each individual little case is labeled


----------



## Willber

singledot02 said:


> Snow Lotus 1.0 or RY4S UE? they are about the same price right now @ali


I find the RY4S UE to be tighter, clearer and more spacious than the SL 1.0 (which incidentally has a black braided cable). No contest IMO.


----------



## RodRevenge

Guy any yuin shell type bud with the monk plus sound signature (or atleast close) i read that the auglamour rx-1 is similar but im looking to widen the options it is for my gf she loves (i do too) the monk's sound.


----------



## FastAndClean

lets go baby


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 28, 2018)

Carrow said:


> Anyone have recommendations for earbud storage boxes? I have enough pairs now that they seem necessary (they say as they make plans to buy some more next week)




I use a couple sorta like this:

https://www.amazon.com/OULII-Organizer-Container-Adjustable-Dividers/dp/B00UKXOFBC/

The compartment sizes can be adjusted for size as well.

And you can see through them to see what buds, IEM's, tips, cables or tools are in them without opening it up.


----------



## Willber (Oct 28, 2018)

I hang mine on hooks attached to a shelf. Helps keep the cables straight.

ETA: To be more accurate, I keep my favourite 20 like that (4 per hook) - mainly buds plus a few IEMs and my KSC75. The rest are returned to their original packaging and  ̶c̶h̶u̶c̶k̶e̶d̶ placed in a drawer..


----------



## subwoof3r

Hey everybody!
I decided to open up my *Willsound PK32* that have issue (that some of you known in the past) 

Here is some pics :


_*Internal PK2 shell*_

 
_*Rear driver*_


_*And another pic of rear driver*_

Always interesting to share (I hope) 
Cheers'


----------



## doggiemom

Carrow said:


> Anyone have recommendations for earbud storage boxes? I have enough pairs now that they seem necessary (they say as they make plans to buy some more next week)


For pricier buds and/or those that come with nice cases, I use these:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sterilite-Large-Divided-Case-14028612/205854395
Each case holds 10-12 buds (assuming 2-3 in the long ends).
For others, I use these:
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.17.553f4467PQGb72
Several stores on Ali have them.  You have to check each store and play around with the quantities ordered to find the lowest price with shipping for the quantity you want to buy.


----------



## Lothar101

For those of you that use foams on your NiceHCK EB2's. What type are you using full or doughnuts? I like mine foamless but need to use foams for a better seal. Going to try factory doughnuts first to try to keep those sweet details.


----------



## mbwilson111

Lothar101 said:


> For those of you that use foams on your NiceHCK EB2's. What type are you using full or doughnuts? I like mine foamless but need to use foams for a better seal. Going to try factory doughnuts first to try to keep those sweet details.



I use the full foams that came with them.


----------



## Lothar101

mbwilson111 said:


> I use the full foams that came with them.



Thanks for the reply...It's a wrestling match to put them on with their ceramic fronts...Lol


----------



## exavolt

Lothar101 said:


> For those of you that use foams on your NiceHCK EB2's. What type are you using full or doughnuts? I like mine foamless but need to use foams for a better seal. Going to try factory doughnuts first to try to keep those sweet details.


Rubber rings + donut foams as they are too small for my ears (MX shells fit well without foams). After a while using them with foams, I find that naked EB2 has very thin bass (because not sealed well) and their mids a bit harsh.


----------



## waynes world

Found my RY4S's - yippee!



fairx said:


> I notice today the amping issue with ry4s UE is real. Straight from phone it sounded good but I tend to skip song every time. connect to amp and I'm hooked to the song (whatever random song from shuffle) from start to finish. The change is so drastic  I'm having hard time believing  since I found ry4s is more efficient compared to monk+ or t-music v2.  From my 2v line out source I only need 11 o'clock on my o2 (1x gain) to reach decent volume.



I love them off of my ES100, but your post made me want to try them amped. And I agree - they scale very nicely!


----------



## mbwilson111

Lothar101 said:


> Thanks for the reply...It's a wrestling match to put them on with their ceramic fronts...Lol



I know.  It takes me about 20 minutes to get foams onto a pair of buds.  Donuts..cant get them on at all.  I need more fingers.


----------



## Lothar101

mbwilson111 said:


> I know.  It takes me about 20 minutes to get foams onto a pair of buds.  Donuts..cant get them on at all.  I need more fingers.



First one took 15 minutes...the second 
I wasn't as gentle and took 2 minutes...Lol They are a lot more stretchy than I thought. Would have torn VE Thins doing this.


----------



## CyberGhost

I've been comparing Shozy Cygnus to my old YUIN PK2. I have to say I kinda prefer PK2. It is noticeably cleaner. Shozy has bigger bass, which feels like it's entering mid range a bit. And mids sounds "fuller". Shozy is also louder at the same decibel level, but, it is not cleaner! Shozy feels veiled compared to PK2. PK2 sounds a bit smaller (I think due to less bass), but definitely cleaner.

Now, I'm really interested in PK1/OK1.


----------



## CyberGhost

seanc6441 said:


> Pk2 is between bk and cygnus more leaning towards bk tonality but brighter and slightly less fine detail in bass and mids. Bass isn't quite is emphasised as cygnus but has more control. Bk has both control and enough emphasis. Pk2 mids are leaner than Cygnus and bk but more detail than cygnus. Treble is morr emphasised than both bk and cygnus, treble is quite nice.
> 
> Pk2 needs a long burn in and picky with foams so it can sound good with fine tuning for vocal and acoustic, but it can sound pretty dull and lifeless out of the box. Atleast that was my experience with both my pk2s I owned.
> 
> ...



This descriptions matches what I experienced with Cygnus and PK2.

Are BK mids cleaner than PK2 from your experience?

Treble is kinda worrying because PK2 has better treble than Cygnus I think. I was hoping BK would have more and clean treble.


----------



## snip3r77

Any suggestions for a RY4S alternative which comes with a box?
I'm trying to make a Christmas Pack for my friends~~


----------



## j4100 (Oct 29, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> Any suggestions for a RY4S alternative which comes with a box?
> I'm trying to make a Christmas Pack for my friends~~



Buy some boxes with the RY4S?

Edit: NiceHCK do a good line in individual boxes, from zippered ones for around a dollar, to more expensive aluminium ones.


----------



## exavolt

waynes world said:


> Found my RY4S's - yippee!


How's RY4S compared to Svara L?


----------



## Themilkman46290

Anyone try the ShoonTH ESEP-01BLE, my wife likes them and I am curious how good they are.


----------



## singledot02

I want to try BUDS WORLD! Please Help!

Currenty Eying for:
Linsoul BLD 150ohm, NICEHCK EBX, Svara L, Wilsound Mk2 FINAL (online store from PH)
not sure if these BUDS i mentioned is a big upgrade from famous RY4S UE and EMX500 or even the Snow Lotus 1+ or VE Monk + SPC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





OPEN FOR SUGGESTIONS

BUDGET: below  *$50*
Player: *LG V30*
Genre: HipHop, Metal, Rock (all rounder i guess?)


----------



## redkingjoe

blackberriesandthinkpads said:


> Just read over 50 pages catching up to this thread :S.
> 
> So Audio Tehcnica's fancy pants buds are out, and no-one has heard them?!
> 
> ...



I’m quite certain to get the ATH cm2000ti. I’m waitin/searching for a good deal though.

Instead of buying parts to fit them together, Audio Technica has the technology and the tradition for earbuds.  In the past, they produced the TOTL cm7ti, when most other didn’t produce higend earbuds. 

The new CM2000ti has premium parts( especially the driver) that can’t be found in other products. The star grounding is also appealing to me.

I just wish Sony, aiwa, and Panasonic will do a comeback for high end earbuds.


----------



## mbwilson111

Themilkman46290 said:


> Anyone try the ShoonTH ESEP-01BLE, my wife likes them and I am curious how good they are.



I found one review on here for the regular version.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/shoonth-esep-o1bl.23392/reviews#review-21085

Did you mean that your wife has them already and likes them or did you mean that she is interested in gettting it?


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Oct 29, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I found one review on here for the regular version.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/shoonth-esep-o1bl.23392/reviews#review-21085
> 
> Did you mean that your wife has them already and likes them or did you mean that she is interested in gettting it?


Yes I saw that review, she is interested in getting them but she also wants allot of other buds so I try to find info on as many buds as I can, she also is interested in the k's White ling


----------



## mbwilson111

Themilkman46290 said:


> Yes I saw that review, she is interested in getting them but she also wants allot of other buds so I try to find info on as many buds as I can



Don't let her see this one 

https://penonaudio.com/shoonth-esep-01ble.html


----------



## exavolt

I saw the review of Toneking's planar IEM. I wonder if they are planning to make some planar buds too.


----------



## Themilkman46290

mbwilson111 said:


> Don't let her see this one
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/shoonth-esep-01ble.html


Those are the ones she found


----------



## 40760

EB2 had a bad driver and it's heading back to Jim for a replacement soon...


----------



## redkingjoe

mbwilson111 said:


> Don't let her see this one
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/shoonth-esep-01ble.html



This one look really promising!


----------



## nhlean96

Today I found the FAAEAL Z-sound and didn't have any doubt pulling the trigger. The price was way too cheap, only $5 incl shipping. The shape reminds me of EB2
The FAAEAL Z-Sound has been around for several months but haven't drawn much attention. There was a positive review on facebook but wasn't much comparison between Z-sound and different models (Datura, Iris, ...)


----------



## mbwilson111

Themilkman46290 said:


> Those are the ones she found



uhoh... I originally assumed you meant this one..the one that the review was talking about...

https://penonaudio.com/shoonth-esep-01bl.html




nhlean96 said:


> Today I found the FAAEAL Z-sound and didn't have any doubt pulling the trigger. The price was way too cheap, only $5 incl shipping. The shape reminds me of EB2
> The FAAEAL Z-Sound has been around for several months but haven't drawn much attention. There was a positive review on facebook but wasn't much comparison between Z-sound and different models (Datura, Iris, ...)



I actually  have the FAAEAL Z-sound sitting here on my desk.  My husband bought one and was listening to it one night while I was listening to my EB2 and because of the similar (same?) shape he wanted me to listen to the Z-sound.  He said it was sounding really good to him at the time and wondered what I would think.  I have not gotten around to trying it yet.  Oops.   Too many other things have arrived since then that demanded my time.  Plus sometimes life gets in the way...


----------



## Carrow

palestofwhite said:


> EB2 had a bad driver and it's heading back to Jim for a replacement soon...



I have a pair of these arriving from @seanc6441 tomorrow I think (would be today but there's no deliveries on account of it being a bank holiday) - you didn't have any issues with yours right?


----------



## subwoof3r

palestofwhite said:


> EB2 had a bad driver and it's heading back to Jim for a replacement soon...


We are the unluckiest guys from this thread, we should be rewarded, lol 

My EB2 has now few days of burning but no sign of a single changement. Sound is totally muffled, undetailed, much less enjoyable than my first EB2 which has issue. I would say it sounds like 15% of EBX with this second attempt..
I will give up very shortly to keep burning them as it seems useless 
I'm now afraid asking to Jim a third pair to finally have a good working EB2 pair.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 29, 2018)

Carrow said:


> I have a pair of these arriving from @seanc6441 tomorrow I think (would be today but there's no deliveries on account of it being a bank holiday) - you didn't have any issues with yours right?


Nope don't worry my pair sound right, very detailed and no driver issues. Seems like some are getting bad pairs which is unfortunate :/


----------



## exavolt

subwoof3r said:


> I'm now afraid asking to Jim a third pair to finally have a good working EB2 pair.


How about ask him if there's something wrong with the production or ask them to test before packaging.

Mine are definitely not muffled and have no imbalance (I ordered them at Oct 11).


----------



## Willber

palestofwhite said:


> EB2 had a bad driver and it's heading back to Jim for a replacement soon...


If you wait a couple of weeks can you get it at the 11/11 price?


----------



## Willber

exavolt said:


> How about ask him if there's something wrong with the production or ask them to test before packaging.


I agree, I'm sure he would rather know there are problems so he can fix them.


----------



## 40760 (Oct 29, 2018)

The driver failed unexpectedly. My unit came with a huge dent on the chin slider and some marks on the right driver.
Didn't think much of them, but maybe these were telltale signs that the they are already defective in the first place.

Now I'm just waiting for Jim to provide the return address so I can mail it back to him for a replacement. I think I'll also drop a note to inform him to inspect the condition of the earbuds too before shipping the new one to me.


----------



## cqtek

Hello.

I write a little review of NiceHCK EB2. I hope you like it.
The pity is that my camera is in the technical service and is still not fixed. I did not want to take photos with my cell phone.
I hope you forgive me if I have not expressed myself correctly in English, my native language is Spanish.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-eb2.23333/reviews#review-21096


----------



## mbwilson111

cqtek said:


> Hello.
> 
> I write a little review of NiceHCK EB2. I hope you like it.
> The pity is that my camera is in the technical service and is still not fixed. I did not want to take photos with my cell phone.
> ...



Very well written review.  I am very happy to have my EB2.


----------



## fairx

Im in phuket right now. Just curious if theres any boutique Thai earbud available around here?


----------



## Carrow

Any good deals available for AE for 11.11 this year?


----------



## seanc6441

Carrow said:


> Any good deals available for AE for 11.11 this year?


Not many compared to last year... Nicehck ebx is a decent enough price i guess, think it was less last time though.

Other sellers have raised rrp as a false sense of price drop.... Very devious practise!

If anyone else finds any lets post here, together we can find something with a great deal im sure


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Carrow said:


> Any good deals available for AE for 11.11 this year?



Have not seen many great deals on earbuds. **** PT25 for $22, EB2 at $22, EBX for $79. There are a lot of really good deals on iems and headphones though.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 29, 2018)

I think there are deals on and off throughout the year and that 11:11 is not *that* special overall.  It is not necessarily your one and only chance to get a good price on something.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> I think there are deals on and off throughout the year and *that* 11:11 is not that special overall.  It is not necessarily your one and only chance to get a good price on something.


Last year it was reallygood though. $50+ off the black ling, k's samsara, ebx. There was atleast 10 good deals to be made.

But there have been good deals at other times than 11.11 so you have a point.

FYI to all, use a google chrome extension to check aliexpress prices presale and see if they were bumped or not. Don't be caught out by sneaky sellers (even some of the more respected sellers mentioned a lot on here are doing it...)


----------



## mbwilson111

MRK1 said:


> The mysound has much deeper bass even when used without foams while retaining acceptable clarity and soundstage imo.
> 
> Please let me know if you like them when you get them. For 5 pounds, I won't feel too bad if you hate them



I have been listening to these Meliconi Mysound Speak Flat buds for hours this evening... I think I am on my sixth album.  Very addictive sound.  They arrived Sunday and I have been either listening  with them or burning them in ever since.  At first I was unsure.   I ended up putting on foams to make them stable in my ears...as I do with almost all of my buds.  

There was still 1 more open box one left on Amazon Uk for £5.54.   I ordered it just now.  Both of mine are grey.  None of the other colors had them this cheap.  I think I would have chosen the grey anyway.  They want £13 for the new in the box ones so I will have two for less than that.  I wanted a spare in case the cable breaks.  



Spoiler


----------



## hongky

Is there any comparison between Toneking TO400s & TO600 ? Which one is better ? Any better option with max budget of $100
Is it a good buy for 11.11 ?

TIA


----------



## waynes world

exavolt said:


> How's RY4S compared to Svara L?



Honestly, I'm not very good at expressing my bud comparison thoughts. But if @DBaldock9 doesn't step to the plate, I will do my best!


----------



## DBaldock9

exavolt said:


> How's RY4S compared to Svara L?





waynes world said:


> Honestly, I'm not very good at expressing my bud comparison thoughts. But if @DBaldock9 doesn't step to the plate, I will do my best!



Well, both earbuds have really good low Bass - with the Svara-L seeming to resolve Bass details a bit more clearly.
And, the Svara-L has a bit more Midrange, with a bigger, more open Sound Stage.

For my ears, the size and shape of the Svara-L is a bit more comfortable than the MX500 shell of the RY4S. 
But, they are 5x more expensive ($10 vs. $54).


----------



## Willber

DBaldock9 said:


> For my ears, the size and shape of the Svara-L is a bit more comfortable than the MX500 shell of the RY4S.
> But, they are 5x more expensive ($10 vs. $54).


I presume you are talking about the RY4S UE? The stock RY4S is about $5.


----------



## DBaldock9

Willber said:


> I presume you are talking about the RY4S UE? The stock RY4S is about $5.



Yes, I ordered the UE cabled model.


----------



## exavolt

DBaldock9 said:


> Well, both earbuds have really good low Bass - with the Svara-L seeming to resolve Bass details a bit more clearly.
> And, the Svara-L has a bit more Midrange, with a bigger, more open Sound Stage.
> 
> For my ears, the size and shape of the Svara-L is a bit more comfortable than the MX500 shell of the RY4S.
> But, they are 5x more expensive ($10 vs. $54).


Thanks for the comparison. Now I am not sure which one to get for 11.11, Svara L or EBX.


----------



## ClieOS

Just a slight update: for those of you who might be waiting for K's Titanium Ling deal on 11.11 - it has been delayed due to factory sending K's the wrong part. Lastest estimated puts it around late November. On the brighter side, the cheaper "Little Black Ling" is almost ready.


----------



## j4100

seanc6441 said:


> Not many compared to last year... Nicehck ebx is a decent enough price i guess, think it was less last time though.
> 
> Other sellers have raised rrp as a false sense of price drop.... Very devious practise!
> 
> If anyone else finds any lets post here, together we can find something with a great deal im sure



Yeah, that's poor form, but I guess not much different from local stores having perpetual sales with the higher price only being applied for one week in the year! Any real bargains should be posted up here, if anyone finds some.

Unless a real deal is on, I was going to buy the RY4S and an EMXS500 anyway. Still tempted with the Svara-L, but no real sale price, plus I probably have a bunch of better sounding buds anyway.


----------



## bonson

Received ry4x and Ry4s hi-fi cable yesterday.
Very pleasant sound. Made me think I should order the UE cable version too. Haven't A/B ING them with Emx500s. But from memory Emx500s is more bassy.


----------



## DBaldock9

exavolt said:


> Thanks for the comparison. Now I am not sure which one to get for 11.11, Svara L or EBX.



Both are very good, and the EBX seems to be a bit larger - but it isn't.  
I guess it's just the way it sits in the ear, and getting a good seal is a little trickier for me.


----------



## kurtextrem

ClieOS said:


> Just a slight update: for those of you who might be waiting for K's Titanium Ling deal on 11.11 - it has been delayed due to factory sending K's the wrong part. Lastest estimated puts it around late November. On the brighter side, the cheaper "Little Black Ling" is almost ready.


Nooooo...
I guess it will be the Liebesleid then, it will be on sale too. Around 250$.


----------



## golov17

Finally..


----------



## MRK1

mbwilson111 said:


> I have been listening to these Meliconi Mysound Speak Flat buds for hours this evening... I think I am on my sixth album.  Very addictive sound.  They arrived Sunday and I have been either listening  with them or burning them in ever since.  At first I was unsure.   I ended up putting on foams to make them stable in my ears...as I do with almost all of my buds.
> 
> There was still 1 more open box one left on Amazon Uk for £5.54.   I ordered it just now.  Both of mine are grey.  None of the other colors had them this cheap.  I think I would have chosen the grey anyway.  They want £13 for the new in the box ones so I will have two for less than that.  I wanted a spare in case the cable breaks.



Cool, I'm glad you liked them. I was surprised at how decent (good?) the sound was for a bud I bought just "because it was the cheapest pair with a mic". Unfortunately the mic is a bit crappy but the sound is really good for dirt cheap buds like these (they cost 8€ here, while a Monk costed me around 7€ with shipping), I never would have expected that tbh. Anyway I'm glad you liked them. 
I haven't used foams with these because then they become a bit too dark and bassy (honestly they're the bassiest earbuds I've heard in a long time). The comfort and stability is good for my ears, I don't have any problems using them without foams, but I think they would sound pretty good with donut foams, maybe I'll try cuttins some but I don't have many left and besides I like the sound as-is.
By the way, do you prefer them to Monk? I prefer them because they have a bit more bass while keeping acceptable clarity, and I find them more comfortable than Monk without foams.


----------



## mbwilson111

MRK1 said:


> Cool, I'm glad you liked them. I was surprised at how decent (good?) the sound was for a bud I bought just "because it was the cheapest pair with a mic". Unfortunately the mic is a bit crappy but the sound is really good for dirt cheap buds like these (they cost 8€ here, while a Monk costed me around 7€ with shipping), I never would have expected that tbh. Anyway I'm glad you liked them.
> I haven't used foams with these because then they become a bit too dark and bassy (honestly they're the bassiest earbuds I've heard in a long time). The comfort and stability is good for my ears, I don't have any problems using them without foams, but I think they would sound pretty good with donut foams, maybe I'll try cuttins some but I don't have many left and besides I like the sound as-is.
> By the way, do you prefer them to Monk? I prefer them because they have a bit more bass while keeping acceptable clarity, and I find them more comfortable than Monk without foams.



I will let you know next time I listen to the Monk.  I have soooooooooooooo many buds,,,, plus iems and headphones.  As for the mic I have no use for one and normally try to avoid buying cables with mics but some things like this one have no such option. 

I have full foams on the Monk as well and maybe find them slightly more comfortable than these. Both are bigger than my smallest buds.  I would have to measure but I am thinking that they have a similar diameter but the Mysound has a shape that seems to take up more room.

I think this Meliconi Mysound Speak Flat does have good bass but like you said it is not just that,,, everything else is good too.  They sound BIG... dare I say a bit like headphones?

What about the mic did you find to be crappy?  Personally I am worried that the cable might break in that area.  I do not think these would be easy to recable... or even if they can be.


----------



## jant71 (Oct 30, 2018)

These are available in the US now if anyone wanted to try out the form factor...  https://www.audio-technica.com/cms/headphones/9b79d8975cc6a2a0/index.html
and maybe dispel or approve the "excellent sound at a great price" statement.


----------



## CyberGhost

Hey folks, I have question that may be a bit off-topic but still interests me none-the-less.

How do you store your earbuds? I'd like to find an efficient way of storing mine. I currently have them in headphone cases, like this one:






But would like a better solution. I've seen some people store them in the multi-compartment tool boxes, like this one:


----------



## mbwilson111

CyberGhost said:


> Hey folks, I have question that may be a bit off-topic but still interests me none-the-less.
> 
> How do you store your earbuds? I'd like to find an efficient way of storing mine. I currently have them in headphone cases, like this one:



Many of mine came with nice cases that I want to keep.  I have bought cases for those that do not come with one.  I then needed a place to store them all so I have these zippered bags.  I did not expect my collection to grow so much so what started out as two bags has grown.  I know need to print out a list of what is in each bag.  This photo happens to be of 4 of my 6 IEM bags.  I also have 3 bags full of bud cases... I will photograph that at some point.  Each iem or bud case has a printed label on it. 

I actually have no place to put one of those plastic containers.  I can hide these bags various places.  Four of them fit in a storage ottoman (footstool) that is in the living room  At the moment they are on a rug in front of the fireplace, lol.  Waiting for me to print those lists...


----------



## BadReligionPunk

jant71 said:


> These are available in the US now if anyone wanted to try out the form factor...  https://www.audio-technica.com/cms/headphones/9b79d8975cc6a2a0/index.html
> and maybe dispel or approve the "excellent sound at a great price" statement.


OK. Im in. Bass tubes got me. Also I like AT and $19 is worth a gamble. OOS at Amazon, but ordered from AT direct. Will post impressions when I get them.


----------



## Willber

CyberGhost said:


> Hey folks, I have question that may be a bit off-topic but still interests me none-the-less.
> 
> How do you store your earbuds? I'd like to find an efficient way of storing mine.


There was some recent discussion on this starting here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2464#post-14564824


----------



## jant71 (Oct 30, 2018)

BadReligionPunk said:


> OK. Im in. Bass tubes got me. Also I like AT and $19 is worth a gamble. OOS at Amazon, but ordered from AT direct. Will post impressions when I get them.



Cool! Yep, Only AT has them so far. $19 shipped is not bad(maybe, we'll see). Will be interested in what you think of them. Was thinking of perhaps getting the BT version if they are overachievers.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> There was some recent discussion on this starting here:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2464#post-14564824



Yes, and if you look at Panda's photos you will see we use a similar system.. except his labeled boxes go into flight cases and mine go into soft toiletry bag.    Easier for me to handle.  His flight cases are kind of heavy.  We really need a bigger house.


----------



## Willber

Yes, I noticed the similarities. Looks like a good system, but I prefer me 'ooks!


----------



## jant71

You can store about 8 earphone cases in each bin(4" x 4" x 12"). 48 bins so should be close to 400 earbuds.

Or perhaps something more like this...


----------



## seanc6441

You need a full size pelican case for your collection or else you're not a REAL audiophile...


----------



## ClieOS

*[NEWS]* Simphonio announced a new earbud - the D3, as current D2+ upgrade, with new diaphragm, 120hom impedance and pure silver cable. Estimated price >$400.


----------



## chinmie

ClieOS said:


> *[NEWS]* Simphonio announced a new earbud - the D3, as current D2+ upgrade, with new diaphragm, 120hom impedance and pure silver cable. Estimated price >$400.



same yuin shell factor?


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> Well, both earbuds have really good low Bass - with the Svara-L seeming to resolve Bass details a bit more clearly.
> And, the Svara-L has a bit more Midrange, with a bigger, more open Sound Stage.
> 
> For my ears, the size and shape of the Svara-L is a bit more comfortable than the MX500 shell of the RY4S.
> But, they are 5x more expensive ($10 vs. $54).



I abide by your assessment 

Once I get a good fit/seal with the Svara's, I'm pretty impressed with their bass and overall clarity (not to mention the soundstage and imaging). Fwiw I use donuts on them and wear them over ear. I tried a pair of the 100 cheapo foams I just got on them, but for me, it's donuts for the Svara's (the cheapo foams work well with the RY4S though!)


----------



## DBaldock9

mbwilson111 said:


> Yes, and if you look at Panda's photos you will see we use a similar system.. except his labeled boxes go into flight cases and mine go into soft toiletry bag.    Easier for me to handle.  His flight cases are kind of heavy.  We really need a bigger house.



Add a lounge, kitchen, bedroom, and bathroom off to the side, and this should work for you...


----------



## singledot02

I want to try BUDS WORLD! Please Help!

Currenty Eying for:
Linsoul BLD 150ohm, NICEHCK EBX, Svara L, Wilsound Mk2 FINAL (online store from PH)
not sure if these BUDS i mentioned is a big upgrade from famous RY4S UE and EMX500 or even the Snow Lotus 1+ or VE Monk + SPC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




OPEN FOR SUGGESTIONS

BUDGET: below *$50*
Player: *LG V30*
Genre: HipHop, Metal, Rock (all rounder i guess?)


----------



## DBaldock9

singledot02 said:


> I want to try BUDS WORLD! Please Help!
> 
> Currenty Eying for:
> Linsoul BLD 150ohm, NICEHCK EBX, Svara L, Wilsound Mk2 FINAL (online store from PH)
> ...



I'm not too sure how many of the sub-$50 earbuds are high enough impedance (more than 50-64Ω), to trigger the LG V30 into high output mode.
My V30 is rooted and running LineageOS, which doesn't support switching modes right now... 
But, I can say that the (currently $54 - but might be less during 11.11 Sale) Svara-L (32Ω) really does sound good with the V30.


----------



## ClieOS

chinmie said:


> same yuin shell factor?



AFAIK, yes.


----------



## FatTeemo

Hi everyone I've been away for a while and tried to read the older threads to catch up but it's simply too confusing. I recently got an LG V35 thinq and I want to upgrade my earbuds to take advantage of it. Right now I'm just using the cheap monk earbuds which are nice, but it's just not at the level I want. I generally prefer a more neutral signature since I like all kinds of music. However, a slightly warm signature with slightly more bass than neutral would be nice too. What recommendations do people have for a $50 to $100 budget? I definitely want to stay closer to the $50 side. Thanks!


----------



## mochill

ClieOS said:


> AFAIK, yes.


Where is the link


----------



## ClieOS

mochill said:


> Where is the link


http://www.erji.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2127301&extra=page=1


----------



## vetsin

I just received my packages from AliExpress.  RY4S and Toneking T0200 are here.
Tried them out quickly without foams. The RY4S hype is real. Amazing sound for the price. It is brighter than the Toneking.
I think I want another one as spare.
Thanks for the recommendation!


----------



## snip3r77

Bros here that gotten the HI cable vs UE cable can A/B ? Thanks


----------



## Danneq

Finally it has arrived!


   

Out of the box it's tilting towards a bright sound but with a very expansive soundstage. I'll let them run music for 3-4 days. What was the recommended burn in time? By Sunday evening it should be enough.


----------



## nihontoman

tronth said:


> So guys, I am wondering which earbuds to get. I am between the Monk lite, Monk +, RY4S, Snow lotus 1.0 and Snow lotus 2.0. What do you guys think? Any other suggestion? I dont want to expend more than 10-15 bucks in 2 or 3 earbuds.
> 
> I am also curious, do we have high impedance (+100 ohms) earbuds under 10 dollars? I know the Monk lite (120 ohms) which cost 20 euros with shipping.


Get Qianyun qian 69. better than the snow lotus I have (they were called faael 64 in early days afaik


----------



## groucho69 (Oct 31, 2018)

Well I'm stumped. I have these in the cart:
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-Original-puresounds-PS100-500ohm-In-Ear-Earbud-High-impedance-HiFi-Earbuds-500ohm-flat-earplug-Pop/32796318436.html?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...pm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.272.716c3c00h8yHf7

I can't decide which to complete. Which one is the winner???


----------



## HungryPanda

K's 500 for me all the way


----------



## groucho69

HungryPanda said:


> K's 500 for me all the way



Why?


----------



## j4100

HungryPanda said:


> K's 500 for me all the way



I don't have the Puresounds, but K's 500s are good.


----------



## soundinout

Very nice comparison!


----------



## HungryPanda

I just love the K's earbuds


----------



## groucho69

Panda speaks, I listen


----------



## Blueshound24

Danneq said:


> Finally it has arrived!
> 
> 
> 
> Out of the box it's tilting towards a bright sound but with a very expansive soundstage. I'll let them run music for 3-4 days. What was the recommended burn in time? By Sunday evening it should be enough.



I can appreciate the bright sounds, but does it have bass as well? 

Would it be like the Denon D7000 that has bright treble but good bass also?


----------



## subwoof3r (Oct 31, 2018)

Wow, I just successfuly made my first ever earbuds mod!

I used WIllsound PK32 cable and swapped its drivers to the ones from NiceHCK DIY PK2.
This mod was extremely useful, not only to confirm that my both old PK32 drivers had issues, but the sound provided by the PK2 into PK32 cable is just incredible.
I compared them immediately to my working WIllsound PK32 pair and I much prefer my PK2 mod!
Not sure if it's due to the use of PK32 shells or the cable or the mod from willy inside PK32 shells (see my previous pic), but the drivers are working much better than on the original NiceHCK DIY PK2 cable!
My modded PK2 (versus original PK32) has better natural and transparent sounding, much better extension in bass and highs frequencies, much better overall details and clarity and bigger soundstage. It's like listening two completely different earbuds!
I'm sooo happy 

This mod will not be alone, as I'm planning to recable my EMX500S and maybe WIllsound MK2 later (just waiting my few good replacement cables from ali).
Cheers'


----------



## chinmie

groucho69 said:


> Well I'm stumped. I have these in the cart:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-Original-puresounds-PS100-500ohm-In-Ear-Earbud-High-impedance-HiFi-Earbuds-500ohm-flat-earplug-Pop/32796318436.html?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...pm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.272.716c3c00h8yHf7
> 
> I can't decide which to complete. Which one is the winner???



they have similar SQ, with the puresound more balanced and the K's 500 more boosted on midbass. both have similar subbass and treble extension.

sou puresound for a more audio monitor type sound, K's for a more fun sound


----------



## groucho69

chinmie said:


> they have similar SQ, with the puresound more balanced and the K's 500 more boosted on midbass. both have similar subbass and treble extension.
> 
> sou puresound for a more audio monitor type sound, K's for a more fun sound



People...tell...me...I'm...a...fun...guy............


----------



## seanc6441

groucho69 said:


> Panda speaks, I listen


I would too, it's very rare to see a talking panda.


----------



## HungryPanda

@seanc6441, post of the day my friend


----------



## Zerohour88 (Oct 31, 2018)

chinmie said:


> they have similar SQ, with the puresound more balanced and the K's 500 more boosted on midbass. both have similar subbass and treble extension.
> 
> sou puresound for a more audio monitor type sound, K's for a more fun sound



the puresound you got was the classic version, right? I suppose it wouldn't be that far off from the vocal/pop version

a bit confused on the K's 300 (and looking closer, the 500 too), I see 2 cable options (with different prices) for it on the K's taobao page but not on the aliexpress page (2 shell color options only, both same pricing). I'm pretty sure its the Samsara, at least.

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-2341332192.44.3051ea4fNaJLGM&id=557799084201


----------



## toear

Zerohour88 said:


> the puresound you got was the classic version, right? I suppose it wouldn't be that far off from the vocal/pop version
> 
> a bit confused on the K's 300 (and looking closer, the 500 too), I see 2 cable options (with different prices) for it on the K's taobao page but not on the aliexpress page (2 shell color options only, both same pricing). I'm pretty sure its the Samsara, at least.
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-2341332192.44.3051ea4fNaJLGM&id=557799084201




That cable looks off if it's supposed to be a samsara. Maybe the 520 version?


----------



## chinmie

Zerohour88 said:


> the puresound you got was the classic version, right? I suppose it wouldn't be that far off from the vocal/pop version
> 
> a bit confused on the K's 300 (and looking closer, the 500 too), I see 2 cable options (with different prices) for it on the K's taobao page but not on the aliexpress page (2 shell color options only, both same pricing). I'm pretty sure its the Samsara, at least.
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-2341332192.44.3051ea4fNaJLGM&id=557799084201



yes, classic version. i haven't tried the vocal version, so i can't give impressions on it. from what i see from that link, i think that's the Samsara version (by the looks of the cable)  but i might be wrong


----------



## hongky

HungryPanda said:


> K's 500 for me all the way


Which one better between K's 500 and Toneking TO400s or TO600
Thanks


----------



## DBaldock9

hongky said:


> Which one better between K's 500 and Toneking TO400s or TO600
> Thanks



I haven't heard the TO600, but I prefer my K's 500 over my TO400s.


----------



## silverfishla

I got the the RY4S this afternoon.... it’s a blast.  Now that’s a good earbud.  I ordered 4 more.


----------



## chinmie

hongky said:


> Which one better between K's 500 and Toneking TO400s or TO600
> Thanks



TO400s < K's 500 < Samsara 300  for me


----------



## exavolt

Note that there's clear shell version of RY4S (pick the second 'Color' for the UE version): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4...le-earphone-3-5mmTransparent/32949600689.html


----------



## KevDzn

For me the TO400s sounds much much better with 8-core 7N copper OFC than the original silver plated cables.
BASS is tighter and has more authority then before. MIDS sweet/airy and intimate. TREBLE has more weight and cleaner.
Overall it adds more 'body' to the sound signature and still maintains its excellent clarity.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 1, 2018)

KevDzn said:


> For me the TO400s sounds much much better with 8-core 7N copper OFC than the original silver plated cables.
> BASS is tighter and has more authority then before. MIDS sweet/airy and intimate. TREBLE has more weight and cleaner.
> Overall it adds more 'body' to the sound signature and still maintains its excellent clarity.


If the drivers are 15.4-15.6mm it would be worth transplanting them into mx500 or similar shell with bass ports. The TO400 shell while nice has no porting for improved sub bass, thus possibly explaining the roll off I heard in my unit. Maybe with that and a new cable you could transform the sound, but other than the bass it's a really exceptional earbud for that neutralish, low mid leaning but airy signature that is sought after. I really liked it in many aspects for something to alternate with brighter tuned earbuds. But the bass was just lacklustre for me.


----------



## KevDzn

Yeah I agreed bass takes a step back but I think the TO400s main strength is its mids and clarity.
Btw there's bass ports on the underside of the buds.


----------



## hongky

chinmie said:


> TO400s < K's 500 < Samsara 300  for me


Thanks, but Samsara is over my budget
Any other recommendation for $100 budget ?


----------



## theresanarc

Looking for the cheapest 16 ohm impedance earbud with a small shell like a yuin PK or Qian39/monk lite shell.

Don't care about sound quality because I won't be using these as my main music one, I want these to listen to movies or podcasts at the lowest possible volume without any hissing. The 32 ohm ones give hissing at the lowest volume.


----------



## chinmie

hongky said:


> Thanks, but Samsara is over my budget
> Any other recommendation for $100 budget ?



can't go wrong with Willsounds


----------



## hongky

chinmie said:


> can't go wrong with Willsounds


Already have Willsound MK2s


----------



## rkw

theresanarc said:


> Looking for the cheapest 16 ohm impedance earbud with a small shell like a yuin PK or Qian39/monk lite shell.
> 
> Don't care about sound quality because I won't be using these as my main music one, I want these to listen to movies or podcasts at the lowest possible volume without any hissing. The 32 ohm ones give hissing at the lowest volume.


To avoid hiss, you should be looking for higher (not lower) impedance.

An alternative is to use an attenuator like the iFi Ear Buddy: https://ifi-audio.com/products/ear-buddy/
What is your source device?


----------



## chinmie

theresanarc said:


> Looking for the cheapest 16 ohm impedance earbud with a small shell like a yuin PK or Qian39/monk lite shell.
> 
> Don't care about sound quality because I won't be using these as my main music one, I want these to listen to movies or podcasts at the lowest possible volume without any hissing. The 32 ohm ones give hissing at the lowest volume.



usually using lower impedance will make the hiss more prominent. so if 32ohm bring you hiss, it's better to go up in impedance, or like @rkw suggest, try using IFI earbuddy


----------



## Ziggomatic

hongky said:


> Thanks, but Samsara is over my budget
> Any other recommendation for $100 budget ?



Gotta throw in the Penon BS1 Official, though it's slightly over your budget at $109.


----------



## Danneq

Blueshound24 said:


> I can appreciate the bright sounds, but does it have bass as well?
> 
> Would it be like the Denon D7000 that has bright treble but good bass also?




Sorry, haven't heard Denon D7000, but I think that bass on SWD2+ is adequate, at least judging from the short time I've listened to them during burn in. This is some a somewhat treble sensitive person, and I would say that the brightness doesn't become overly sharp. It's not like the sort of "razor on my ear drums" like Rose Mojito. And it does feel more full sounding than Moondrop Liebesleid and with a bigger soundstage.


----------



## chinmie

Danneq said:


> Sorry, haven't heard Denon D7000, but I think that bass on SWD2+ is adequate, at least judging from the short time I've listened to them during burn in. This is some a somewhat treble sensitive person, and I would say that the brightness doesn't become overly sharp. It's not like the sort of "razor on my ear drums" like Rose Mojito. And it does feel more full sounding than Moondrop Liebesleid and with a bigger soundstage.



+1

the SWD2+ the instruments in the stereo field is more spread to let and right than liebesleid. room /space (perceived wall/room size from reverb and delay effects) are about the same


----------



## vetsin (Nov 1, 2018)

@HungryPanda and @DBaldock9, do you guys listen to the Toneking T0200 directly from the V30 or through an amp? My unit sounds a bit veiled when used with the LG V20. Will burn-in change the SQ or do I need an amp for this buds?
Thanks!


----------



## groucho69

seanc6441 said:


> I would too, it's very rare to see a talking panda.



So you're saying I have better drugs than you?


----------



## HungryPanda

I use Toneking T200 both direct from my V30 my DX200 and desktop amp, sounds good on all


----------



## vetsin (Nov 1, 2018)

Ok. I'll just put this back for burn-in. Thanks


----------



## toear

hongky said:


> Thanks, but Samsara is over my budget
> Any other recommendation for $100 budget ?


It maybe worth the extra few dollars during the 11.11 sale. This way you bypass a bunch of 'almost what I'm looking for s'.  The Samsara is pretty awesome. Another slightly cheaper alternative is the K's 600. I got the Samsara over the k's600 but the I have heard/read they are very similar...


----------



## Zerohour88

hongky said:


> Thanks, but Samsara is over my budget
> Any other recommendation for $100 budget ?



same dilemma as me then, looking for buds on the $100 range but coming up with quite a few models

so far its EBX or Samsara for me, maybe TO600 (this one is just me being curious, no one has actually posted impressions of them). That said, TO600 is usd$72 here, so I don't need 11.11 if I want them.

most users have consistently put the K's earphone over TO series, so the Samsara is probably the best bet now. K's 500 is $75, EBX is $80, K's 600 is $88, K's 300 Samsara is $108. As I see it, only EBX is the odd one here due to not finding a proper comparison on it. @doggiemom did a helpful comparison on the K's model:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2371#post-14501676


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 1, 2018)

Zerohour88 said:


> same dilemma as me then, looking for buds on the $100 range but coming up with quite a few models
> 
> so far its EBX or Samsara for me, maybe TO600 (this one is just me being curious, no one has actually posted impressions of them). That said, TO600 is usd$72 here, so I don't need 11.11 if I want them.
> 
> ...


I'm all for K's earbuds but I want someone to try the TO600 for research sake 

Seriously though if it improves on the 400s in the bass control and impact it'll be a winner.

But seeing is the black ling seems to follow the samasara vein of tuning and I absolutely adore that earbud, i think the samasara would be awesome 

The price on the 600 is really good though, possibly... Decisions decisions... For you not me haha


----------



## exavolt

Zerohour88 said:


> As I see it, only EBX is the odd one here due to not finding a proper comparison on it.


Moonstar compared Samsara with EBX here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/review/19766/


----------



## hongky

toear said:


> It maybe worth the extra few dollars during the 11.11 sale. This way you bypass a bunch of 'almost what I'm looking for s'.  The Samsara is pretty awesome. Another slightly cheaper alternative is the K's 600. I got the Samsara over the k's600 but the I have heard/read they are very similar...


Thanks, I'll think about it


----------



## hongky

Zerohour88 said:


> same dilemma as me then, looking for buds on the $100 range but coming up with quite a few models
> 
> so far its EBX or Samsara for me, maybe TO600 (this one is just me being curious, no one has actually posted impressions of them). That said, TO600 is usd$72 here, so I don't need 11.11 if I want them.
> 
> ...


Thanks, this is really helpful


----------



## Zerohour88

seanc6441 said:


> I'm all for K's earbuds but I want someone to try the TO600 for research sake
> 
> Seriously though if it improves on the 400s in the bass control and impact it'll be a winner.
> 
> ...



haha, the TO600 temps me too much after having the TO180 (though one side is having some crinkling issues, nothing a few blow/suck cycle wouldn't fix when it happens, but an issue nonetheless).




exavolt said:


> Moonstar compared Samsara with EBX here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/review/19766/



thanks for the link, I actually just read it after looking around for EBX reviews (since 11.11 is nearing). He even compared it with Rose Masya, which is nice.

They're basically toe-to-toe and picking one might come down to preference. Regardless of sound signature, I always want to make sure that I go up in terms of actual SQ.

NiceHCK EBX in the lead again for me, can't wait till 11.11 (the 2 sellers have similar pricing, maybe it'd be a good idea to spend the extra 3 bux and get it direct from NiceHCK store)


----------



## groucho69

Zerohour88 said:


> same dilemma as me then, looking for buds on the $100 range but coming up with quite a few models
> 
> so far its EBX or Samsara for me, maybe TO600 (this one is just me being curious, no one has actually posted impressions of them). That said, TO600 is usd$72 here, so I don't need 11.11 if I want them.
> 
> ...



Now I changed my order to the 600.


----------



## seanc6441

hongky said:


> Thanks, but Samsara is over my budget
> Any other recommendation for $100 budget ?


Go for the EBX then? $87

Or get a willsound with upgrade cable $45-75.

Or save you cash and grab an emx500 with spc cable or RY4S UE cable and buy ali thin + hiegi donut foams for like $25. Because the former sound excellent to me and the latter have high praise too.


----------



## subwoof3r

seanc6441 said:


> grab an emx500 with *spc cable*


Any link to buy this specific version please ? 

Unfortunately, my EMX500S just died 1 hour ago, they didn't survived to one of my DIY mod try tonight, lol
Well, 1 driver was still working so I keep it just in case.
Their subbass will miss me a lot  damn..


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 1, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> Any link to buy this specific version please ?
> 
> Unfortunately, my EMX500S just died 1 hour ago, they didn't survived to one of my DIY mod try tonight, lol
> Well, 1 driver was still working so I keep it just in case.
> Their subbass will miss me a lot  damn..


Well if you're into diying why not buy the 10 pack of drivers and make some spares? The 10 pack costs only as much as one full unit...

Hot Selling 5 Pair DIY EMX500 earphone Speaker 15.4 mm speaker HiFi Bass Sound quality Speaker unit Earphone accessories
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/dseXnDQ
And these sound great to my ears. Solid bass and very detailed mids and highs.

The clear version is **** emx500 (clear shell spc cable one) for like $16.

I've heard a few reports stating that one has the best bass response. But i dont have it myself, only the diy emx500 drivers i bought.


----------



## subwoof3r

seanc6441 said:


> Well if you're into diying why not buy the 10 pack of drivers and make some spares? The 10 pack costs only as much as one full unit...
> 
> Hot Selling 5 Pair DIY EMX500 earphone Speaker 15.4 mm speaker HiFi Bass Sound quality Speaker unit Earphone accessories
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/dseXnDQ
> ...



Thanks a lot, I will order that 
But EMX500 = EMX500S in term of soundsig ? wasn't the "S" version different ?


----------



## HungryPanda

I just ordered some 15.4 and 14.8mm drivers as I just wrecked my left hand Vido speaker


----------



## DarkZenith

subwoof3r said:


> Thanks a lot, I will order that
> But EMX500 = EMX500S in term of soundsig ? wasn't the "S" version different ?


Yes : bassier, fatter, juicier, meatier.


----------



## kw8910

Samsara for under $90 using aliexpress coupons, EBX for under $65 or blind buy TO600 (and I do enjoy TO400 heavily amped) for under $55? Tough decisions...


----------



## toear

kw8910 said:


> Samsara for under $90 using aliexpress coupons, EBX for under $65 or blind buy TO600 (and I do enjoy TO400 heavily amped) for under $55? Tough decisions...


Where is ebx for $65? Not that I should be asking.... At all...


----------



## kw8910

toear said:


> Where is ebx for $65? Not that I should be asking.... At all...


NiceHCK store, you'll have to use the aliexpress select coupons, coin exchange coupons ($10 off/1000 coin one), and (if available) store seller coupons to stack up.


----------



## Zerohour88

kw8910 said:


> NiceHCK store, you'll have to use the aliexpress select coupons, coin exchange coupons ($10 off/1000 coin one), and (if available) store seller coupons to stack up.



ah, so it won't work without having lots of coins then? I thought it was some special voucher, lol. EBX for 65 would be a bargain


----------



## BadReligionPunk

jant71 said:


> Cool! Yep, Only AT has them so far. $19 shipped is not bad(maybe, we'll see). Will be interested in what you think of them. Was thinking of perhaps getting the BT version if they are overachievers.


Ordered at 6pm cat on Tue Oct 30. Got home today and had a package waiting for me from Oakland NJ.  It was the audio technica earbuds. 

That's insanely fast shipping.  First impressions are good.  Listened to some Jerry Reed,  Bad Religion, Love Bites, Do As Infinity,  Awolnation and Tech N9ne.
They are ear pods and not ear buds. They are a rubbery grey housing,  and they fit really nice. 

Would like some more time with them to compare with apple ear pods and the ear pods that came with my phone. 

Seems at first hearing they are balanced,  with a slight tilt to warm.  
Gonna burn on and listen to them over the next few days.  I think I like them though.  There is nothing offensive about them. They seem to do well with everything.


----------



## kw8910

Zerohour88 said:


> ah, so it won't work without having lots of coins then? I thought it was some special voucher, lol. EBX for 65 would be a bargain


yea..on top of that only 35 of the $10 coupons are released every hour, so it gets snapped up in less than a second as aliexpress users worldwide compete for it. Kind of ridiculous imo, but they do work if you're able to grab'em.


----------



## toear

kw8910 said:


> NiceHCK store, you'll have to use the aliexpress select coupons, coin exchange coupons ($10 off/1000 coin one), and (if available) store seller coupons to stack up.


Ok thanks! I can't seem to figure how to use my coin exchange coupons...


----------



## theresanarc (Nov 1, 2018)

rkw said:


> To avoid hiss, you should be looking for higher (not lower) impedance.
> 
> An alternative is to use an attenuator like the iFi Ear Buddy: https://ifi-audio.com/products/ear-buddy/
> What is your source device?



Alright how about 64 ohm then? Whatever is cheapest in a Yuin PK or Monk Lite shell (again just need this one for audio dialogue not music so not concerned with sound quality). I only see budget ones with the MX500 shell for 64 ohms.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 1, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> Thanks a lot, I will order that
> But EMX500 = EMX500S in term of soundsig ? wasn't the "S" version different ?


Im only linking emx500, neither of those are the S version. I cannot be sure if the driver changed for the S version, or just the tuning.

Either way the original emx500 was the better received if the two. Never heard the S myself.

Edit: just realised you were looking for the S variant. Hmm. Don't have any links for that sorry!


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Nov 1, 2018)

Ok so I got the Audio Technica ATH-C200iS. Putting them thru their paces but had a quick question to some of you guys that have a lot more experience then me with Earbuds. Looking at the picture, would you consider these earbuds or earpods? Or maybe earpuds?


----------



## waynes world

"earpuds".. lol - good one!


----------



## mbwilson111

Yes they are definitely earpuds.


----------



## seanc6441

BadReligionPunk said:


> Ok so I got the Audio Technica ATH-C200iS. Putting them thru their paces but had a quick question to some of you guys that have a lot more experience then me with Earbuds. Looking at the picture, would you consider these earbuds or earpods? Or maybe earpuds?


Anything that doesn't go into the ear canal is an earbud to me.


----------



## jant71

I would consider them a more closed/capped off type of Earbud. Earpods would have a forward opening aiming into the ear canal. 

It looks like the silicone piece is a cap that may come off.


----------



## silverfishla

seanc6441 said:


> Anything that doesn't go into the ear canal is an earbud to me.


So a banana is an earbud by your definition?  I was going to use another example, but alas, too rude.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

silverfishla said:


> So a banana is an earbud by your definition?  I was going to use another example, but alas, too rude.


Made me stomach laugh...


----------



## chinmie

silverfishla said:


> So a banana is an earbud by your definition?  I was going to use another example, but alas, too rude.



what's so rude about watermelon?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

jant71 said:


> I would consider them a more closed/capped off type of Earbud. Earpods would have a forward opening aiming into the ear canal.
> 
> It looks like the silicone piece is a cap that may come off.


WOW! You nailed that. It in fact does come off but being late and being that I'm ready for bed I decided against getting into it messing around with it right now.


----------



## seanc6441

silverfishla said:


> So a banana is an earbud by your definition?  I was going to use another example, but alas, too rude.


Lol well I don't have much experience with that per say but I probably should have been a bit more specfic about what classifies as an earbud


----------



## chinmie

I'm curious, is there any true wireless bluetooth in earbud form? so far that i found are only iem form and of course the airpods form..i want no noise blocking like earbuds, but i want a more familiar mx500 or yuin type of surface touching my ears


----------



## hongky

seanc6441 said:


> Go for the EBX then? $87
> 
> Or get a willsound with upgrade cable $45-75.
> 
> Or save you cash and grab an emx500 with spc cable or RY4S UE cable and buy ali thin + hiegi donut foams for like $25. Because the former sound excellent to me and the latter have high praise too.


I'm leaning to EBX now
Still very curious about TO600... I really like my toneking 9T & tomahawk


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Nov 1, 2018)

@chinmie 

https://www.audio-technica.com/cms/headphones/e44687af1c691bf8/index.html


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> I'm curious, is there any true wireless bluetooth in earbud form? so far that i found are only iem form and of course the airpods form..i want no noise blocking like earbuds, but i want a more familiar mx500 or yuin type of surface touching my ears


Someone needs to buy Airpods, rip out the internals and transplant them into mx500 shells with 32 ohm drivers xD.


----------



## ballog

DarkZenith said:


> Yes : bassier, fatter, juicier, meatier.


@


DarkZenith said:


> Yes : bassier, fatter, juicier, meatier.


@DarkZenith seems like you are describing the RY4S - wonder if they are the same? Btw Dark don't see you much around the earbud thread on TN lately.


----------



## waynes world

DarkZenith said:


> Yes : bassier, fatter, juicier, meatier.





ballog said:


> @DarkZenith seems like you are describing the RY4S - wonder if they are the same?



Must be. Perfect RY4S description!



Spoiler: Mmm, juicy...


----------



## chinmie

BadReligionPunk said:


> @chinmie
> 
> https://www.audio-technica.com/cms/headphones/e44687af1c691bf8/index.html



thank you, but I'm searching /waiting for the true wireless form like the airpods. for bluetooth with wire like the one you posted i use the Willsound MK1 and MK3 which are modded with mmcx and a bluetooth cable


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> thank you, but I'm searching /waiting for the true wireless form like the airpods. for bluetooth with wire like the one you posted i use the Willsound MK1 and MK3 which are modded with mmcx and a bluetooth cable



You're ahead of the curve my friend! But I have become a believer in bluetooth audio quality, so I'm sure I'll be going down that bluetooth-bud rabbit hole some day as well. But for now I'll just have to continue enjoying my wired buds off of the es100


----------



## rkw

theresanarc said:


> Alright how about 64 ohm then? Whatever is cheapest in a Yuin PK or Monk Lite shell (again just need this one for audio dialogue not music so not concerned with sound quality). I only see budget ones with the MX500 shell for 64 ohms.


I should mention that higher impedance doesn't necessarily mean lower sound output, especially with such a small difference as between 32 and 64 ohms. It would be a more reliable predictor if comparing with, say a 200 ohm bud.

The better spec to compare between buds is sensitivity (dB output at 1mW). A lower number would be better for you. Looking quickly through AliExpress, the Fengru DIY PK2 is relatively cheap and has a lower sensitivity than most. However, your player device may still output too much noise at low volume. It would help if you tell us what device and earbud you are using. Someone here may have similar components and give you some perspective.

For a foolproof solution, get an iFi Ear Buddy and you can use it with your current earbuds.


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> You're ahead of the curve my friend! But I have become a believer in bluetooth audio quality, so I'm sure I'll be going down that bluetooth-bud rabbit hole some day as well. But for now I'll just have to continue enjoying my wired buds off of the es100



these little true wireless are getting there! a few years ago the main problems are battery life and connection stability, now they reached a point where the battery life is ample enough for casual use, and also more and more stable that they are becoming a convenient piece of tech. 
i still use my wired cans when i'm stationary at my desk or bed (although to be frank, even that they connect to my bluetooth dac-amps  )
my only true wired experience nowadays is when i use my Ipod


----------



## snip3r77

waynes world said:


> Must be. Perfect RY4S description!
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Mmm, juicy...



Does Ry4S owns the EMX500?


----------



## chaiyuta

In 2008, Radius released " HP-WHF11M", a maple-wood earbud. Today Radius announced to release the new model called "HP-WHF11Mx". It is expected to be released on 05/11/2018.


----------



## chinmie

chaiyuta said:


> In 2008, Radius released " HP-WHF11M", a maple-wood earbud. Today Radius announced to release the new model called "HP-WHF11Mx". It is expected to be released on 05/11/2018.



I'm just worried it would break easily. other than that it's beautiful


----------



## j4100

chaiyuta said:


> In 2008, Radius released " HP-WHF11M", a maple-wood earbud. Today Radius announced to release the new model called "HP-WHF11Mx". It is expected to be released on 05/11/2018.



They look great. I imagine they would sound pretty good too. Any idea of the price when released?


----------



## Danneq (Nov 2, 2018)

I used to own the HP-WHF11M. Bought it at a Yodobashi store in Japan in 2016 I think. It was truly sweet looking but the sound was only okay. A somewhat intimate presentation and not too much sub bass...

If I remember correctly it cost around 5000 yen, perhaps less.

Edit: seems they still sell them (plus the Mx version with a price at 7530 yen):

https://www.yodobashi.com/?word=HP-WHF11M


----------



## Qualcheduno

So far the only impression about the to600 I've come across is this user review on AE:
_
"I feel TO600 is one of the masterpiece that countinued from TO400S. Its sound is very detail with warmth. I feel TO600's tone valume Balance is Melody and Base sound oriented with in the limits of Good Balance. I feel "Mid to high" > "Low" >>> "Treble". so, All ranges are really high quality.Especially, Tone color is really detailed. Music output from TO600 is vivid and colorfull , and separation of instrument is really good. I forget oppotunity that putting off TO600 cause I can listen fantastic tone with relaxing. Transition of tone is really great inherited from TO400S. one of the best release I've heard. There isn't useless reverberation created by enclosure. I highly recommend TO600 to fun tone color and diversity of instrument and vocal. My TO600 is driven well by smartphone LG-V20 with or wituout Hi-fi DAC."
_
So, midcentric SS with relaxed treble, could it be a mini Senn HD650?


----------



## HungryPanda

I have K's K600 and that is my mini HD650 for sure


----------



## j4100 (Nov 2, 2018)

Speaking of wooden buds, I just noticed this one. Tried to link it but failed. You can search using this description. 

Tiandirenhe MMCX Headset Handmade Red Sandalwood Wood Earplugs Replacement Cable for Shure se215 se535 se846 In-ear Earphone


----------



## j4100

Since I'm having problems linking Ali stuff, anyone see the blinged-out K's LHF with gold details?

Edit. In AK store


----------



## j4100

I'm getting an irrational urge to buy the TO600 or the black Ling. My brain keeps pretending that I have no other earbuds. 

Currently listening to some Dead Meadow with my ZOE.  The 20th anniversary tour gig last week was amazing. Love this band.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 2, 2018)

j4100 said:


> I'm getting an irrational urge to buy the TO600 or the black Ling. My brain keeps pretending that I have no other earbuds.
> 
> Currently listening to some Dead Meadow with my ZOE.  The 20th anniversary tour gig last week was amazing. Love this band.


For your wallets sake hope you choose the TO600, but oh my do the Ling sound good when setup right 

Plus it's amoung the most beautiful looking earbuds I've seen and has a great fit in the ear.

My unit that developed a rattle is on the way back to me from AKStore (shoutout to them for replacing it for me even out of time on Aliexpress' ridiculously short buyer protection cover). So I'll get to rediscover it again without any of the flaws holding it back that my last unit unfortunately had.

So yeah, get it, or don't... You're choice 

Disclaimer: enabling may occur!


----------



## Willber

j4100 said:


> Speaking of wooden buds, I just noticed this one. Tried to link it but failed. You can search using this description.
> 
> Tiandirenhe MMCX Headset Handmade Red Sandalwood Wood Earplugs Replacement Cable for Shure se215 se535 se846 In-ear Earphone


Here is the link:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tia...5-se846-Replacement-Cable-In/32807872412.html


----------



## Willber

seanc6441 said:


> ... oh my do the Ling sound good when setup right
> 
> Plus it's amoung the most beautiful looking earbuds I've seen and has a great fit in the ear.


It looks like the EB2.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 2, 2018)

Willber said:


> It looks like the EB2.


Not in hand it doesn't. Same silhouette but the finish is polished brass (maybe an alloy as it's a dark grey finish). It has a full metal front cover with a mesh grille under the perforations. It's cable looks to be SPC and Gold plated copper. But cannot confirm it. Although it oozes quality.

I don't usually gush over the build quality unless it's spectacular which it is with the ling. Of course it should be for the price.

Although I've heard K's will release a budget ling version so even if you don't have the budget for the black ling you may be able to have a taste of the sound and looks with the new budget one. Although ive yet to see any prototype pictures of it...


----------



## Willber (Nov 2, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Not in hand it doesn't. Same silhouette but the finish is polished brass (maybe an alloy as it's a dark grey finish). It has a full metal front cover with a mesh grille under the perforations. It's cable looks to be SPC and Gold plated copper. But cannot confirm it. Although it oozes quality.
> 
> I don't usually gush over the build quality unless it's spectacular which it is with the ling.
> 
> Of course it should be for the price.


Fair enough. Too expensive for me, though.

Actually, I feel the same about my B&W P5. They are not the best sounding phones I have but the leather and metal (no plastic in sight) are just lovely to handle and wear. Coincidentally, they are in my profile pic which seems to be randomly selected.


----------



## seanc6441

Willber said:


> Fair enough. Too expensive for me, though.


Understandable, i wasn't willing either until I got a good price in the AE 11.11 sale last year with added coupons.

Wait for the budget one, ill probably buy it just to compare to the black ling out of curiosity 

Btw EB2 has great build for the price, but its not the same as Ling in sound or overall build. Maybe the budget ling will be closer if they use a full metal shell.


----------



## Willber

seanc6441 said:


> Understandable, i wasn't willing either until I got a good price in the AE 11.11 sale last year with added coupons.
> 
> Wait for the budget one, ill probably buy it just to compare to the black ling out of curiosity
> 
> Btw EB2 has great build for the price, but its not the same as Ling in sound or overall build. Maybe the budget ling will be closer if they use a full metal shell.


Interesting, I shall wait an see.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 2, 2018)

Willber said:


> Interesting, I shall wait an see.


I think the emx500 has the closest sound to the ling in the budget range except the Ling is slightly more refined, mature and extended on both ends. Both have large soundstaging but the Ling presents more intimately as its a more closed back design.


----------



## Willber

seanc6441 said:


> I think the emx500 has the closest sound to the ling in the budget range except the Ling is slightly more refined, mature and extended on both ends. Both have large soundstaging but the Ling presents more intimately as its a more closed back design.


I have the EMXS-500 which I like a lot so that sounds promising.


----------



## j4100

Willber said:


> Here is the link:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tia...5-se846-Replacement-Cable-In/32807872412.html



That's the ones. I am tempted because they look so good, but not cheap in case the SQ doesn't match the looks.


----------



## j4100

seanc6441 said:


> For your wallets sake hope you choose the TO600, but oh my do the Ling sound good when setup right
> 
> Plus it's amoung the most beautiful looking earbuds I've seen and has a great fit in the ear.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I have been tempted since they came out and you don't make it any easier.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> I think the emx500 has the closest sound to the ling in the budget range except the Ling is slightly more refined, mature and extended on both ends. Both have large soundstaging but the Ling presents more intimately as its a more closed back design.



It's been a while since I heard the emx500 (developed an un-suckable rattle lol). But do you have the RY4S (UE cable version)?


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> It's been a while since I heard the emx500 (developed an un-suckable rattle lol). But do you have the RY4S (UE cable version)?


On it's way to me. Should have mine by next week or so!


----------



## nxnje

hello guys! 
I was wondering if there are earbuds just like my Pioneer SE-CE11 in terms of size.
14.6 mm driver actually.. mx500 earbuds really hurt me.
I'm searching for something like that for less than 20$.
I'm searching for a V-Shaped signature with clear mids and bright upper spectrum
Is there something like this on the market or just vido shells?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 2, 2018)

j4100 said:


> Speaking of wooden buds, I just noticed this one. Tried to link it but failed. You can search using this description.
> 
> Tiandirenhe MMCX Headset Handmade Red Sandalwood Wood Earplugs Replacement Cable for Shure se215 se535 se846 In-ear Earphone



I ordered them back in July when @DBaldock9 posted the link saying they seemed ro be the same as his  Daik DK-Song. They do seem to be the same.  I love them.  Sound great with my music.  I am sure that DB can tell you better than I can.

They are from the store that @Willber linked to.  I ordered the white cable version that I thought would look like this











but when they arrived the cable looked like this... which I like better.  Different case and cable from what I expected.  The leather thingie is mine.  We have about 40 of them here... lol.


----------



## vetsin

vetsin said:


> Ok. I'll just put this back for burn-in. Thanks



I'm not a firm believer of the burn-in process but do it anyway. I just left my Toneking T0200 buds playing music on a Sony Walkman for about 48 hours, maybe a bit more. Looks like the sound did change.
Initially, I decided to put doughnut foams as they seemed veiled but now I prefer regular foams.
I also discovered that my music streaming service is EQing by default, the highs were a bit piercing and it was hurting my ears so I checked the EQ option and found that it was not flat. I never noticed this until I got the T0200.


----------



## seanc6441

vetsin said:


> I'm not a firm believer of the burn-in process but do it anyway. I just left my Toneking T0200 buds playing music on a Sony Walkman for about 48 hours, maybe a bit more. Looks like the sound did change.
> Initially, I decided to put doughnut foams as they seemed veiled but now I prefer regular foams.
> I also discovered that my music streaming service is EQing by default, the highs were a bit piercing and it was hurting my ears so I checked the EQ option and found that it was not flat. I never noticed this until I got the T0200.


For me it really varies greatly depending on the bud. Some seem to change,
 Others don't.


----------



## jogawag

nxnje said:


> hello guys!
> I was wondering if there are earbuds just like my Pioneer SE-CE11 in terms of size.
> 14.6 mm driver actually.. mx500 earbuds really hurt me.
> I'm searching for something like that for less than 20$.
> ...



I recommend to you 16ohm's one in link below.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801646835.html
This is needed 100 hour's burn-in.


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> I ordered them back in July when @DBaldock9 posted the link saying they seemed ro be the same as his  Daik DK-Song. They do seem to be the same.  I love them.  Sound great with my music.  I am sure that DB can tell you better than I can.
> 
> They are from the store that @Willber linked to.  I ordered the white cable version that I thought would look like this
> 
> ...



Magic! Don't know how I missed this. More than tempted now. Leather thingies are very handy.


----------



## vetsin

seanc6441 said:


> For me it really varies greatly depending on the bud. Some seem to change,
> Others don't.


I think I'll have to agree, the last iem I did this to didn't change at all.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 2, 2018)

I have been meaning to take a photo of them with a different cable... the one my husband gave me after he changed one of his buds to a balanced one.  I think it looks awesome with the wood.

edited to add:  Just found out that this BGVP cable in the link below is not the one in my photo  but it does look simitar and looks nice.  Turns out that mine is the Toneking TO400 original cable.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/BGVP-DX3-2-5mm-3-5mm-OCC-8-Strands-Mixed-Braided-Headphone-Cable-MMCX-3-Frequency/32851933491.html   

@j4100 you could get the balanced version of that cable.  I know you like balanced.  See... I am being a very good enabler here


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> I have been meaning to take a photo of them with a different cable... the one my husband gave me after he changed one of his buds to a balanced one.  I think it looks awesome with the wood.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/BGV...phone-Cable-MMCX-3-Frequency/32851933491.html
> 
> @j4100 you could get the balanced version of that cable.  I know you like balanced.  See... I am being a very good enabler here


To400s cable!


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


>


Much nicer than the white one.


----------



## nxnje

jogawag said:


> I recommend to you 16ohm's one in link below.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801646835.html
> This is needed 100 hour's burn-in.



WOAH! thanks for the fast answer!
Just a few questions.
1. Is this little like the one i've mentioned?
2. What is different between the 16/32 and 150ohm one?
3. Are there any other pair so i can have more models for looking one to pick?

Thanks for the answer.


----------



## subwoof3r

Just received today my *RY GM500* (300 ohms) earbuds!

After burning them for approx 8 hours, I can say I'm just amazed by their sound. It is my first earbuds with such impedance, but my equipment (especially the Fostex) can handle it without any issue.
Everything sound just right to my ears, it's a bit flat sounding with a little bump on upper mids, transparent and natural sounding, I don't feel any kind of "veil", it's very detailed overall with good clarity. They aren't laid-back at all and there is much energy. Highs are not harsh neither sibilant at all. I even find them more in the analytical side (they can sound a bit fatiguing after few hours due to this). The only negative point to me is they lack a bit of bass impact and especially subbass. Soundstage is more large than deep, not the best I heard but it does the job, it is more intimate so it helps focusing on tracks value.
Otherwise, for the price asked (15$) it's almost a no-fault!
They are good allrounder but not the best for electronical music (I still prefer my custom PK2).
Also, I'm not a fan of its UE brown cable even if it's not the worse I had till date.
They are for sure one of my favorites earbuds for now. I will wait for a week of proper burning before make final statement  (hope bass will be more forwarded after that)
Can't wait to make a comparison between RY4S (which I should receive soon).

Thanks @HungryPanda for the discover!

Cheers'


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> To400s cable!



Wow... good catch.  He thought it was the BGVP but he had  changed his TO400 to balanced a long time ago and had put the SE cable from it on the BGVP.  When he took it off the BGVP he forgot that was not the original cable.  

That one I linked to is the BGVP cable.  The one in my photo is the TO400 cable.

Looking at the two cables side by side not we see they are similar but not the same.  Not sure which one might be better than the other.  Anyway, I like the looks of it with the wood.  Not sure where the white one is right now...maybe waiting as a spare.


----------



## HungryPanda

subwoof3r said:


> Just received today my *RY GM500* (300 ohms) earbuds!
> 
> After burning them for approx 8 hours, I can say I'm just amazed by their sound. It is my first earbuds with such impedance, but my equipment (especially the Fostex) can handle it without any issue.
> Everything sound just right to my ears, it's a bit flat sounding with a little bump on upper mids, transparent and natural sounding, I don't feel any kind of "veil", it's very detailed overall with good clarity. They aren't laid-back at all and there is much energy. Highs are not harsh neither sibilant at all. I even find them more in the analytical side (they can sound a bit fatiguing after few hours due to this). The only negative point to me is they lack a bit of bass impact and especially subbass. Soundstage is more large than deep, not the best I heard but it does the job, it is more intimate so it helps focusing on tracks value.
> ...


 The RY4s has the exact same cable, very nice for the cost of these earbuds imo


----------



## jogawag (Nov 2, 2018)

nxnje said:


> WOAH! thanks for the fast answer!
> Just a few questions.
> 1. Is this little like the one i've mentioned?
> 2. What is different between the 16/32 and 150ohm one?
> ...



Answers are
1. This is small shell called PK shell / DoCoMo shell. And this has a V-Shaped signature with clear mids and bright upper spectrum and wide sound stage.
2. I have heard 16ohm one only. So I can not tell different between the 16/32 and 150ohm one.
3. This is more low price and same 16ohm driver one.  https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32922747759.html


----------



## nxnje

jogawag said:


> Answers are
> 1. This is small shell called PK shell / DoCoMo shell. And this has a V-Shaped signature with clear mids and bright upper spectrum and wide sound stage.
> 2. I have heard 16ohm one only. So I can not tell different between the 16/32 and 150ohm one.
> 3. This is more low price and same16ohm driver one.  https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32922747759.html



If you had to guess, what would you expect by a higher impedance earbud?
I don't have any experience with earbuds.
Anyway, i think i am grabbing one of these.
I've found this too, do you think it could be good?

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cMklAcI8


----------



## mbwilson111

nxnje said:


> If you had to guess, what would you expect by a higher impedance earbud?
> I don't have any experience with earbuds.
> Anyway, i think i am grabbing one of these.
> I've found this too, do you think it could be good?
> ...



these s.click links never work.. why are they posting like this?


----------



## nxnje

mbwilson111 said:


> these s.click links never work.. why are they posting like this?



Sorry i think these are links that are coming out when you try to share from the aliexpress app.
This is the one i've linked:


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> these s.click links never work.. why are they posting like this?


Because aliexpress fked up the mobile app links. Atleast on android. Everything you link now has that stupid s click URL.

I don't think why they don't just use normal links.


----------



## jogawag (Nov 2, 2018)

nxnje said:


> If you had to guess, what would you expect by a higher impedance earbud?
> I don't have any experience with earbuds.
> Anyway, i think i am grabbing one of these.
> I've found this too, do you think it could be good?
> ...



In order to expecting by a higher impedance(150ohm) earbud, you should use high power DAP or amp, not cheap DAP nor smart phone.
It is said that noise is reduced as the effect of higher impedance earbud when using high power DAP or amp.

You've found this.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32818451331.html
I have this earbuds, but this sound is mid focused...


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> Because aliexpress fked up the mobile app links. Atleast on android. Everything you link now has that stupid s click URL.
> 
> I don't think why they don't just use normal links.



so no way to copy and paste?    has to be done from the pc then.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> so no way to copy and paste?    has to be done from the pc then.


If using the app then no. Opening the 'share' tab gives you lots of options but no way to open in a broswer window annoyingly enough.


----------



## Qualcheduno

seanc6441 said:


> If using the app then no. Opening the 'share' tab gives you lots of options but no way to open in a broswer window annoyingly enough.


The s.click works only for those who have the mobile app.


----------



## HungryPanda

I also have the Fengru DIY PK2 and the mids are forward more so than any of my other earbuds. I would recommend the DQSM Z&W Panda PK2s
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...one-Flat-Head-Plug-Earplugs/32831045644.html?


----------



## jogawag (Nov 2, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> I also have the Fengru DIY PK2 and the mids are forward more so than any of my other earbuds. I would recommend the DQSM Z&W Panda PK2s
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...one-Flat-Head-Plug-Earplugs/32831045644.html?



I have DQSM Z&W Panda PK2s, and this can not be said to have a V-shaped signature (deep bass) and a wide sound stage.
I strongly recommend this DIY SR2(16ohm) for a V-Shaped signature(deep bass) and wide sound stage.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801646835.html


----------



## groucho69

jogawag said:


> I have DQSM Z&W Panda PK2s, and this can not be said to have a V-shaped signature (deep bass) and a wide sound stage.
> I strongly recommend this DIY sr2(16ohm) for a V-Shaped signature(deep bass) and wide sound stage.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801646835.html



Isn't that what @HungryPanda said?


----------



## jogawag

groucho69 said:


> Isn't that what @HungryPanda said?


I know that, but @nxnje said that he wants a V-Shaped signature...


----------



## nxnje (Nov 2, 2018)

jogawag said:


> I have DQSM Z&W Panda PK2s, and this can not be said to have a V-shaped signature (deep bass) and a wide sound stage.
> I strongly recommend this DIY SR2(16ohm) for a V-Shaped signature(deep bass) and wide sound stage.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801646835.html



If only this could have the cable in the Fengru's image..
No way to have that cable on this earbuds? Maybe paying 2-3$ more?
If not i'm just going to grab this.

PS: which size is the driver here? 14mm? 15mm?


----------



## seanc6441

jogawag said:


> I know that, but @nxnje said that he wants a V-Shaped signature...


I've yet to hear a pk shell earbud with that signature. I was beginning to think it was an illusion because every pk shell bud I've heard is mid-treble centric or balanaced in one way or another.


----------



## nxnje

seanc6441 said:


> I've yet to hear a pk shell earbud with that signature. I was beginning to think it was an illusion because every pk shell bud I've heard is mid-treble centric or balanaced in one way or another.



I've heard this too, that's why i'm asking here.
If that's really possible, i'm grabbing this one.


Atm i just have SE-CE11 (bleah for my tastes but so comfy) and the earbuds that come with the AGPTEK m20, which are ok but so much painful for my ears.


----------



## HungryPanda

I didn't know a V-shaped sound signature was required due to the pk shell


----------



## jogawag (Nov 2, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> I've yet to hear a pk shell earbud with that signature. I was beginning to think it was an illusion because every pk shell bud I've heard is mid-treble centric or balanaced in one way or another.





HungryPanda said:


> I didn't know a V-shaped sound signature was required due to the pk shell


You should try DIY SR2(16ohm) with Pad and DonutsPad for a V-Shaped signature(deep bass) and wide sound stage! This has stronger bass than Dragon2+.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801646835.html


----------



## HungryPanda (Nov 2, 2018)

For a cheap bass heavy V shape the Faaeal Z-Sound with smallish shell fits the bill nicely

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...-Flat-Head-Plug-Earbud-HIFI/32823119048.html?


----------



## nxnje

nxnje said:


> I've heard this too, that's why i'm asking here.
> If that's really possible, i'm grabbing this one.
> 
> 
> Atm i just have SE-CE11 (bleah for my tastes but so comfy) and the earbuds that come with the AGPTEK m20, which are ok but so much painful for my ears.





jogawag said:


> You should try DIY SR2(16ohm) with Pad and DonutsPad for a V-Shaped signature(deep bass) and wide sound stage! This has stronger bass than Dragon2+.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801646835.html



Are the one that you've linked me and the one i posted here the same pair of earbuds or are they different?



HungryPanda said:


> For a cheap bass heavy V shape the Faaeal Z-Sound with smallish shell fits the bill nicely
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...-Flat-Head-Plug-Earbud-HIFI/32823119048.html?


Thanks a lot for this suggestion too, putting it in my wish list so i can make a comparison at the end of the list


----------



## jogawag (Nov 2, 2018)

nxnje said:


> If only this could have the cable in the Fengru's image..
> No way to have that cable on this earbuds? Maybe paying 2-3$ more?
> If not i'm just going to grab this.
> 
> PS: which size is the driver here? 14mm? 15mm?



The driver size is 14.8mm.


----------



## jogawag

nxnje said:


> Are the one that you've linked me and the one i posted here the same pair of earbuds or are they different?


You posted here the link to Fengru DIY PK2. I posted here the link to DIY SR2(16ohm) . Of course they are different.


----------



## seanc6441

jogawag said:


> You posted here the link to Fengru DIY PK2. I posted here the link to DIY SR2(16ohm) . Of course they are different.


Does it have bass compareable to emx500? Willsound mk2? Or what can it compare to?

Because the sr2 driver in tpe cable I bought sounded really dull and lacked sub bass. So im hesitant to buy another. Maybe the tpe was a different driver even though it said sr2...


----------



## RodRevenge

seanc6441 said:


> I've yet to hear a pk shell earbud with that signature. I was beginning to think it was an illusion because every pk shell bud I've heard is mid-treble centric or balanaced in one way or another.


Then i have been ordering the wrong type of shell all this time, for some reason or another i have been delaying pk shell buds, i may get the Pandas or Linsoul this 11.11.


----------



## jogawag (Nov 2, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Does it have bass compareable to emx500? Willsound mk2? Or what can it compare to?
> 
> Because the sr2 driver in tpe cable I bought sounded really dull and lacked sub bass. So im hesitant to buy another. Maybe the tpe was a different driver even though it said sr2...



To tell the truth, I connected the driver of DIY SR2 pro 16ohm (12usd) to the Shozy Cygnus cable, because silver plated cable of DIY SR2 pro emphasizes treble too much.
IMO, I feel this DIY SR2 connected to Shozy Cygnus cable (using Pad and DonutsPad) have bass compareable to emx500.
(I do not like Shozy BK which sound dull, so I connected the driver of Shozy Cygnus to the Shozy BK cable. This sounds very good treble/mid/bass!)

I also have bought DIY SR2 in tpe cable at below link at October/16, but it is not arrived yet...

Could you tell me the link of sr2 in tpe cable that you bought, for reference? Is it the same as below link?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801646835.html
And This is needed 100 hour's burn-in, OK?


----------



## waynes world

nxnje said:


> Thanks a lot for this suggestion too, putting it in my wish list



Panda is good for that, isn't he! 



RodRevenge said:


> Then i have been ordering the wrong type of shell all this time, for some reason or another i have been delaying pk shell buds, i may get the Pandas or Linsoul this 11.11.



Is the Linsould 150 a PK shell? Regardless, I have what I am sure is exactly the same thing in the FENGRU DIY PK1 2.5mm for $21.75. They are very balanced imo, which for me is "mid-centric and a bit bass light". Having said that, they sound awesome and all I do to get them really working for me is to boost the bass a bit. I really like these buds.


----------



## HungryPanda

The Linsoul 150 is indeed a pk shell and one of the most neutral, balanced earbud I possess


----------



## RodRevenge (Nov 2, 2018)

waynes world said:


> Is the Linsould 150 a PK shell? Regardless, I have what I am sure is exactly the same thing in the FENGRU DIY PK1 2.5mm for $21.75. They are very balanced imo, which for me is "mid-centric and a bit bass light". Having said that, they sound awesome and all I do to get them really working for me is to boost the bass a bit. I really like these buds.


Yeah i saw you post about it, i'll get those too a think, that way i can get the Panda and those at the price of the Linsoul, midcentric and bass light is what im looking for, i found that my ears get really tired while using bassy buds, even the MK3 that people regard as "could use more bass" tires me a bit. Funny the fact that even the pictures are the same between those two.


HungryPanda said:


> The Linsoul 150 is indeed a pk shell and one of the most neutral, balanced earbud I possess


Music to my ears, my Panda friend.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 2, 2018)

jogawag said:


> To tell the truth, I connected the driver of DIY SR2 pro 16ohm (12usd) to the Shozy Cygnus cable, because silver plated cable of DIY SR2 pro emphasizes treble too much.
> IMO, I feel this DIY SR2 connected to Shozy Cygnus cable (using Pad and DonutsPad) have bass compareable to emx500.
> (I do not like Shozy BK which sound dull, so I connected the driver of Shozy Cygnus to the Shozy BK cable. This sounds very good treble/mid/bass!)
> 
> ...


Fair enough ill burn it in longer then. The bass extension just isn't the same as mx500 earbuds with good bass. The punch of the mid bass is there but the depth goes missing on some tracks.

Gonna try some modding to see if I can get some depth out of it.

The cygnus cable does add some weight to the bass I agree, but its hard to push extension that isn't there. I'll hook my cygnus cable up to them too and see what happens.


----------



## WhiteNightCrow

Rholupat opening a pre-order session for Crow Audio Glaive last night.
Limited to just 5 units.

http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone/glaive.html


----------



## jogawag (Nov 3, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Fair enough ill burn it in longer then. The bass extension just isn't the same as mx500 earbuds with good bass. The punch of the mid bass is there but the depth goes missing on some tracks.
> 
> Gonna try some modding to see if I can get some depth out of it.
> 
> The cygnus cable does add some weight to the bass I agree, but its hard to push extension that isn't there. I'll hook my cygnus cable up to them too and see what happens.



It may be a trick to put Pad and DonutsPad over it and make it a double Pad to boost the bass.
Of course the Shozy Cygnus connected to the Shozy BK cable has clearer treble and deeper bass.


----------



## nxnje

jogawag said:


> You posted here the link to Fengru DIY PK2. I posted here the link to DIY SR2(16ohm) . Of course they are different.



Didn't mean the fengru, but the other photo i posted, which was taken by opening a link you've sent me some posts ago saying that was the same driver but cheaper.
Diy sr2 but at 9$ usd around.


----------



## jogawag

nxnje said:


> Didn't mean the fengru, but the other photo i posted, which was taken by opening a link you've sent me some posts ago saying that was the same driver but cheaper.
> Diy sr2 but at 9$ usd around.



1st. I recommend to you 16ohm's one in link. https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801646835.html
2nd. This is more low price and same16ohm driver one. https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32922747759.html
        Perhaps this earbuds use cheap parts.


----------



## j4100

WhiteNightCrow said:


> Rholupat opening a pre-order session for Crow Audio Glaive last night.
> Limited to just 5 units.
> 
> http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone/glaive.html



Really tempted, as the Raven mk2 is a great bud, but 11.11...


----------



## Danneq

j4100 said:


> Really tempted, as the Raven mk2 is a great bud, but 11.11...



Screw that! (pun intended)


----------



## j4100

Here's the K's LHF (bling!) that I mentioned yesterday. Appears to be new. No feedback or reviews that I can see.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/AK-2018-K-s-LHF-In-Ear-HIFI-Earphone-Earbud-Flat-Head-Plug-Earplugs-DJ-Earbuds/119089_32894953827.html


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 3, 2018)

j4100 said:


> Here's the K's LHF (bling!) that I mentioned yesterday. Appears to be new. No feedback or reviews that I can see.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/AK-2018-K-s-LHF-In-Ear-HIFI-Earphone-Earbud-Flat-Head-Plug-Earplugs-DJ-Earbuds/119089_32894953827.html



Too much bling for me...no matter what it sounds like.


----------



## doggiemom

mbwilson111 said:


> Too much bling for me...no matter what it sounds like.


Yes, these look kinda silly.  I'd feel like a pimp.


----------



## DBaldock9

mbwilson111 said:


> Too much bling for me...no matter what it sounds like.





doggiemom said:


> Yes, these look kinda silly.  I'd feel like a pimp.



Well, they are listed as, "_...DJ Earbuds 24K Gold Plated Shell With Silver Plated Cable..._" - so if you're DJ'ing a Hip-Hop dance, you'd fit right in!


----------



## rkw

j4100 said:


> Here's the K's LHF (bling!) that I mentioned yesterday. Appears to be new. No feedback or reviews that I can see.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/AK-2018-K-s-LHF-In-Ear-HIFI-Earphone-Earbud-Flat-Head-Plug-Earplugs-DJ-Earbuds/119089_32894953827.html


In the specs, it says "Model Number: K'S 600". It would be fair to assume that the earpiece is exactly a K's 600 with gold wrapper.



doggiemom said:


> Yes, these look kinda silly.  I'd feel like a pimp.


This is the perfect accessory to make an outfit complete, after you've put on the gold bracelets, chains and rings.


----------



## mbwilson111

DBaldock9 said:


> Well, they are listed as, "_...DJ Earbuds 24K Gold Plated Shell With Silver Plated Cable..._" - so if you're DJ'ing a Hip-Hop dance, you'd fit right in!



 I will keep that in mind next time I DJ a hip hop dance.


----------



## j4100

rkw said:


> In the specs, it says "Model Number: K'S 600". It would be fair to assume that the earpiece is exactly a K's 600 with gold wrapper.
> 
> This is the perfect accessory to make an outfit complete, after you've put on the gold bracelets, chains and rings.



Thanks, I missed that point, though should have guessed it would be an existing bud.



DBaldock9 said:


> Well, they are listed as, "_...DJ Earbuds 24K Gold Plated Shell With Silver Plated Cable..._" - so if you're DJ'ing a Hip-Hop dance, you'd fit right in!





doggiemom said:


> Yes, these look kinda silly.  I'd feel like a pimp.





mbwilson111 said:


> Too much bling for me...no matter what it sounds like.





Too true!


----------



## Zerohour88

j4100 said:


> Here's the K's LHF (bling!) that I mentioned yesterday. Appears to be new. No feedback or reviews that I can see.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/AK-2018-K-s-LHF-In-Ear-HIFI-Earphone-Earbud-Flat-Head-Plug-Earplugs-DJ-Earbuds/119089_32894953827.html



not exactly new, these have been on the K's earphone taobao store for months


----------



## gazzington

So what are the bargains to look out for on 11.11? I'm after some buds for work....


----------



## ClieOS

Blox new earbuds are almost ready to take order. One will be priced as the same as TM9, but with new driver. Another one will be around US$170 or so.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 3, 2018)

WhiteNightCrow said:


> Rholupat opening a pre-order session for Crow Audio Glaive last night.
> Limited to just 5 units.
> 
> http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone/glaive.html


Nice, but they are overhyping a pretty basic concept of open/closed adjustable ports. It's cool but not revolutionary. But all that matters is the sound 


jogawag said:


> It may be a trick to put Pad and DonutsPad over it and make it a double Pad to boost the bass.
> Of course the Shozy Cygnus connected to the Shozy BK cable has clearer treble and deeper bass.


Traded my BK + cash for a Blox TM9 

But I have some other cables I can try.


----------



## czy6412

Is there anyone knows what is the best earbud regarding details retrieval and soundstage


----------



## DBaldock9

czy6412 said:


> Is there anyone knows what is the best earbud regarding details retrieval and soundstage



There are a lot of answers to your question - but I really like my:

1.) Wong Kuan Wae "Blur hALF/hALF" (2.5TRRS, 150Ω)
2.) Wong Kuan Wae "Blur 魔音" (2.5TRRS, 300Ω)
3.) K's 500-Ohm v2 (2.5TRRS, 500Ω)
4.) Svara-L (MMCX, 32Ω)


----------



## czy6412

DBaldock9 said:


> There are a lot of answers to your question - but I really like my:
> 
> 1.) Wong Kuan Wae "Blur hALF/hALF" (2.5TRRS, 150Ω)
> 2.) Wong Kuan Wae "Blur 魔音" (2.5TRRS, 300Ω)
> ...



Yep I have Blur 魔音, K’s Poseidon, Zen 2.0 Black, Moondrop Liebesleid and Blur 魔音 is my favorite among those. I wonder if there is something that is a step up from Blur 魔音. I was looking at cm2000ti but the impressions from Canjam Shanghai seems not really positive on it.


----------



## seanc6441

czy6412 said:


> Is there anyone knows what is the best earbud regarding details retrieval and soundstage


Rose Mojito is a contender. Excells at both things you mentioned.


----------



## czy6412

seanc6441 said:


> Rose Mojito is a contender. Excells at both things you mentioned.



Yes I had Mojito in 2016 and I was not a fan of its sound signature


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 4, 2018)

czy6412 said:


> Yes I had Mojito in 2016 and I was not a fan of its sound signature


Me neither at first but i created a foam mod and used an OCC copper cable and I'm very happy with it now. I would say the difference is substantial taking it from grateing and sharp to sparkly and bright (but tolerable).

Stock sound was too heavy on the bass notes, lacked bass tightness and sounded slow. The low treble was piercing and the vocal range was recessed. Fixed all those issues for me.

Other than the Masya I think others enjoy the Nicehck EBX, there's the Moondrop liebesleid which is said to be smoother than the mojito but have great mid-treble clarity and quality. But I have not heard those two.


----------



## rkw

ClieOS said:


> Blox new earbuds are almost ready to take order. One will be priced as the same as TM9, but with new driver. Another one will be around US$170 or so.


I heard that the lower priced one is tuned for strong impact and bass. Do you know anything about the other?


----------



## ClieOS

rkw said:


> I heard that the lower priced one is tuned for strong impact and bass. Do you know anything about the other?



No idea at all.


----------



## ClieOS

czy6412 said:


> ....I was looking at cm2000ti but the impressions from Canjam Shanghai seems not really positive on it.



Pretty much the same as what I have read about CM2000ti so far. A few pointed out that it follows the same tuning as the previous CM707, which to me is a very underwhelming sounding earbud (though seems to gain a very small cult following in China), and that's certainly isn't pointing at the good direction.


----------



## Danneq (Nov 4, 2018)

czy6412 said:


> Is there anyone knows what is the best earbud regarding details retrieval and soundstage



Price level?

Simphonio Dragon 2+ is slightly bright (with great detail, that is). Not razor sharp like Rose Mojito, but more bright like Moondrop Liebesleid, and the soundstage is pretty big. Cypherus Zoomfred has got a pretty big soundstage and quite good detail retrieval. It is not an analytical earbud, though (but sub bass to die for). Blox TM9 has got the soundstage, but perhaps a bit too laid back when it comes to details...


----------



## chaiyuta

ClieOS said:


> Pretty much the same as what I have read about CM2000ti so far. A few pointed out that it follows the same tuning as the previous CM707, which to me is a very underwhelming sounding earbud (though seems to gain a very small cult following in China), and that's certainly isn't pointing at the good direction.


In Twitter (Japanese) too, I saw many underwhelmming feedback about its high-frequency even if 200-hour burn-in passed, it still keeps hot and sibilant. However some informed that it depends on system macthing. He further said that CM2000Ti + iTube2 combo is his favour, though.

Now, I am waiting for korean impressions of UCOTECH ES-P1.


----------



## seanc6441

At $400+ any critism of the cm2000ti would be a red flag to me to be honest. It's competing against the big boys at that price and shouldn't be slugish in any department.


----------



## ClieOS

chaiyuta said:


> ....However some informed that iHe further said that CM2000Ti + iTube2 combo is his favour, though.
> 
> Now, I am waiting for korean impressions of UCOTECH ES-P1.



If CM2000Ti + iTube2 sounds good then it is even more troublesome than I've imagined - given iTube2 is meant as loadspeaker pre-amp / buffer only.

I am interested in the new Ucotech as well, though I think it probably is going to be a bit overpriced like its older models.


----------



## Themilkman46290

I don't think you can compare cm2000ti to $300-400 chifi buds, it's audio Technica, so you have to compare it to $100 chifi (considering superficial price inflation and 30% for marketing)


----------



## subwoof3r

The more I listen to my GM500, and the more they impress me with the amount of details and instrument separation they can do (especially for the price).
For sure, one of my best details retrieving earbuds to date


----------



## exavolt

subwoof3r said:


> The more I listen to my GM500, and the more they impress me with the amount of details and instrument separation they can do (especially for the price).
> For sure, one of my best details retrieving earbuds to date


Now, how would you compare MK2 against GM500 as The Panda prefers MK2?


----------



## HungryPanda

I also really like the GM500


----------



## subwoof3r

exavolt said:


> Now, how would you compare MK2 against GM500 as The Panda prefers MK2?


I would say it depends on what you want to listen and on which bump you prefer: either mids or bass.
I completely agree with Panda about the forwarded upper mids, so it helps a lot for vocals especially.
For "relax" listening, I would say GM500, but if you want fun and energy, then I would call the MK2 
I can even more appreciate details retrieving on GM500 than TM9!


----------



## Narayan23

subwoof3r said:


> The more I listen to my GM500, and the more they impress me with the amount of details and instrument separation they can do (especially for the price).
> For sure, one of my best details retrieving earbuds to date



What´s your opinion on the GM500 sound compared to the RY4S? TIA.


----------



## subwoof3r

Narayan23 said:


> What´s your opinion on the GM500 sound compared to the RY4S? TIA.


Unfortunately I don't have received my R4YS yet, I hope this week 
I stay you tuned


----------



## chaiyuta

1months ago, I had a chance to listen SVARA-M which is directly purchased via the official taobao store, and I told one, who now becomes the local distributor for SVARA, that SVARA-M is pretty good SQ. It seems SVARA already accredited my local authorized distributor, and the distributor informs that SVARA is going to release the revised version of SVARA both M and L in the next month. One thing for sure is that MMCX socket becomes submerge inside its housing.

1) The current version of SVARA-L and SVARA-M



 

2) The upcoming revised SVARA


----------



## chaiyuta

ClieOS said:


> Pretty much the same as what I have read about CM2000ti so far. A few pointed out that it follows the same tuning as the previous CM707, which to me is a very underwhelming sounding earbud (though seems to gain a very small cult following in China), and that's certainly isn't pointing at the good direction.



Though, if the second-hand CM2000Ti price in the Japan market goes down enough (approx. under 250USD), I might pull trigger on it. Cause I am pretty much playing on upgraded cables. It might be the same case as Rose Mojito which many don't like its high-frequency area with the stock cable. While I am one of happy listeners when pairing it with 3rd party upgraded cables. 

By the way, It seems no news about Ty Hi-Z brand since he released 800-Ohm earbuds. Do you know any news?


----------



## mochill

Need more information on the blox earphones


----------



## ClieOS

chaiyuta said:


> By the way, It seems no news about Ty Hi-Z brand since he released 800-Ohm earbuds. Do you know any news?



As far as I can tell, they are pretty much still selling the same old models.


----------



## doggiemom

WhiteNightCrow said:


> Rholupat opening a pre-order session for Crow Audio Glaive last night.
> Limited to just 5 units.
> 
> http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone/glaive.html


I wasn't going to buy any new buds for awhile because I want to buy a turntable....... but "screw it."  



DBaldock9 said:


> Well, they are listed as, "_...DJ Earbuds 24K Gold Plated Shell With Silver Plated Cable..._" - so if you're DJ'ing a Hip-Hop dance, you'd fit right in!


I'm Asian, so I can't dance.


----------



## waynes world

chaiyuta said:


> 1months ago, I had a chance to listen SVARA-M which is directly purchased via the official taobao store, and I told one, who now becomes the local distributor for SVARA, that SVARA-M is pretty good SQ. It seems SVARA already accredited my local authorized distributor, and the distributor informs that SVARA is going to release the revised version of SVARA both M and L in the next month. One thing for sure is that MMCX socket becomes submerge inside its housing.



Do you have any thoughts regarding the SQ differences between the two?


----------



## chaiyuta

Sorry I've never tried SVARA-L before. The version I tried is SVARA Pro (snail chamber design) and it is M-version which is equivalent to PK-size housing with a bit smaller.


----------



## DBaldock9

doggiemom said:


> I'm Asian, so I can't dance.



Well, Karate can look a bit like dancing...  
.


----------



## mbwilson111

doggiemom said:


> I'm Asian, so I can't dance.



Excuses...excuses...


----------



## rkw

doggiemom said:


> I'm Asian, so I can't dance.


Not as bad as clapping on the wrong beat.


----------



## Danneq (Nov 4, 2018)

rkw said:


> Not as bad as clapping on the wrong beat.





But what if you're into prog rock with weird time changes all over the place? (example 70's prog rock band Yezda Urfa who sounded a bit like like Yes on amphetamine):



Perhaps this song is a better example:


----------



## Danneq

Try clapping your hands to the song The Basis of Dubenglazy While Dirk Does the Dance!


----------



## mbwilson111

Danneq said:


> Try clapping your hands to the song The Basis of Dubenglazy While Dirk Does the Dance!



Found it on Youtube.  I managed to listen for over a minute... no clapping...no toe tapping either... lol...


----------



## Danneq

mbwilson111 said:


> Found it on Youtube.  I managed to listen for over a minute... no clapping...no toe tapping either... lol...



Then you missed the Harpo Marx car horn honk at 1:09? (Something @groucho69 might like). All good music needs some car horn honk.


----------



## mbwilson111

Danneq said:


> Then you missed the Harpo Marx car horn honk at 1:09? (Something @groucho69 might like). All good music needs some car horn honk.



Haha... I think I stopped at 1:07


----------



## norymeoreason41

Hi everyone - please forgive me if this exact question has been asked already....but I really am having a hard time following all of the different options out there on earbuds. I'm looking to pick a new set of earbuds and love the idea of grabbing some of these off-brand gems as they are such great bargains. Can anyone advise on a great set of relatively easily accessible earbuds that would sound ok straight out of an iPhone? I would like something warm and nicely balanced. Comfort is also important as my ears are sensitive/get sore when having larger earbuds in my ears for extended periods of time. Thank you all!


----------



## rkw

Danneq said:


> But what if you're into prog rock with weird time changes all over the place?


The topic is really about stereotypes: Asians can't dance... white folk got no rhythm...


----------



## doggiemom

rkw said:


> The topic is really about stereotypes: Asians can't dance... white folk got no rhythm...


My husband and I went to see The Lone Bellow last night.  They are a great Americana band that always put on an incredible live show.  They encourage the audience to clap out rhythm patters, sing along with refrains, etc........ at one point they initiated a clapping pattern where every fourth clap was on an off beat......  OMG......  nothing worse than seeing an audience of white people with an average age of 55+ trying to understand syncopation.  

Other than that,  it was an excellent show, and they hung around after to meet the fans:


----------



## waynes world (Nov 4, 2018)

Danneq said:


> But what if you're into prog rock with weird time changes all over the place? (example 70's prog rock band Yezda Urfa who sounded a bit like like Yes on amphetamine):
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps this song is a better example:




Wow - they're great!

I was out all day, doing yardwork and dancing in my spastic way to Gentle Giant (the neighbors must have love it!).

But I think that these Yezda Urfa folk "out Gentle Giant" Gentle Giant lol!

Edit: Whoa - "The Basis of Dubenglazy While Dirk Does the Dance" is pretty nuts lol!


----------



## Zerohour88

norymeoreason41 said:


> Hi everyone - please forgive me if this exact question has been asked already....but I really am having a hard time following all of the different options out there on earbuds. I'm looking to pick a new set of earbuds and love the idea of grabbing some of these off-brand gems as they are such great bargains. Can anyone advise on a great set of relatively easily accessible earbuds that would sound ok straight out of an iPhone? I would like something warm and nicely balanced. Comfort is also important as my ears are sensitive/get sore when having larger earbuds in my ears for extended periods of time. Thank you all!



For starters, specifying a budget would help.


----------



## norymeoreason41 (Nov 4, 2018)

Zerohour88 said:


> For starters, specifying a budget would help.




Thanks for the response. I’m hoping to stay under $50 - but would go to $75. These really will be my beaters that I take around (walking around, listening at work, occasional use at home). Thank you again!


----------



## waynes world

norymeoreason41 said:


> Thanks for the response. I’m hoping to stay under $50 - but would go to $75. These really will be my beaters that I take around (walking around, listening at work, occasional use at home). Thank you again!



Svara L (32 ohm) sound awesome, are well built, and have MMCX cable connectors (so you can get different cables if desired). The shells seem more comfortable than mx500 shells, so maybe they are a bit smaller. Also, you can wear them over ears which helps keep them in place.

11.11 sale price is $54:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...or-Earbud-Earphone-With-MMCX/32810127070.html


----------



## exavolt

After chaiyuta's post, I'll personally wait before grabbing any Svara.

If you are looking for best bang for the buck earbuds for mobile under $50, I think most people here agree that RY4S is the current king. They are warm with foam / good seal.


----------



## Willber

exavolt said:


> If you are looking for best bang for the buck earbuds for mobile under $50, I think most people here agree that RY4S is the current king. They are warm with foam / good seal.


Hmm, that's a bold statement. I have the RY4S and RY4S UE and they are both very good, but better than anything under $50? My EMXS-500 are better in some ways (e.g. soundstage) and I would hope that the EB2 I have on order will be better than all of them. But I realise it's all subjective...


----------



## exavolt

Willber said:


> My EMXS-500 are better in some ways (e.g. soundstage)


Thanks for the recommendation


----------



## HungryPanda

Would that be EMX500S?


----------



## j4100

Speaking of EMX500S, is there any particular one that is recommended? There are a few out there.


----------



## subwoof3r

j4100 said:


> Speaking of EMX500S, is there any particular one that is recommended? There are a few out there.


I ordered the one from *Fengru* and was pretty happy with, excepted for the cable. Should be much better if they could at least purpose an UE style.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...arphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds-DJ/32841881186.html


----------



## Willber (Nov 5, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> Would that be EMX500S?


Mine are advertised as EMXs-500 from here:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/***...523.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.7a644c4dp6zasc

But they look identical and are the same price.


----------



## Willber

BTW, I've just ordered these (choice #11):

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...867.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.7a644c4dNi7G0R

When I saw "EMX500", "PK2" & "Brown cable" I had to have them!


----------



## Willber (Nov 5, 2018)

_Duplicate post deleted._


----------



## groucho69

Danneq said:


> Then you missed the Harpo Marx car horn honk at 1:09? (Something @groucho69 might like). All good music needs some car horn honk.



Swing it brother!


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

Just regarding the whole "Burn In Thing", I'm not necessarily a true believer really.  However, I have a few sets of Monk + buds I got a couple months back.  Right out of the package I enjoyed the SQ.  I love the mid-rangey energy they have - great for punk/alt-rock/folk music.  But then I got a set of the Panda PK2 buds, and found them to be a bit more open and airy so I sorta started using them mostly.  I did leave the Monks plugged into my PS4 controller and used them for games and Netflix so they continued to get burn-in time but not for critical music listening.  I'd say they probably have 25 hours on them at this point.  Anyway, last week I felt like a change from the Pandas so I plugged the Monks (now having had maybe 20 or so extra burn in hours than the last time I listened to music through them) into my BTR1 and put some music on them.  I'd swear, they sound considerably more airy and open than they did before I started using the Pandas.  The veil seems to have lifted a fair bit.  They really sound great actually!  I've been using them almost exclusively for the past week and really enjoying them.  So, there may actually be something to the whole burn-in idea...


----------



## HungryPanda (Nov 5, 2018)

https://aliexpress.com/e/ccfqKK4p

These are the ones I have as well as the regular one. On my phone so don't think the link works


----------



## RodRevenge

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> Just regarding the whole "Burn In Thing", I'm not necessarily a true believer really.  However, I have a few sets of Monk + buds I got a couple months back.  Right out of the package I enjoyed the SQ.  I love the mid-rangey energy they have - great for punk/alt-rock/folk music.  But then I got a set of the Panda PK2 buds, and found them to be a bit more open and airy so I sorta started using them mostly.  I did leave the Monks plugged into my PS4 controller and used them for games and Netflix so they continued to get burn-in time but not for critical music listening.  I'd say they probably have 25 hours on them at this point.  Anyway, last week I felt like a change from the Pandas so I plugged the Monks (now having had maybe 20 or so extra burn in hours than the last time I listened to music through them) into my BTR1 and put some music on them.  I'd swear, they sound considerably more airy and open than they did before I started using the Pandas.  The veil seems to have lifted a fair bit.  They really sound great actually!  I've been using them almost exclusively for the past week and really enjoying them.  So, there may actually be something to the whole burn-in idea...


What makes me wonder if burn in actually exist is that almost never ends up in a negative result, the sound alwyas end up where the person wants it to end up (more mass, less peaks, more airy), placebos exist and can be quite powerful, also how are makers able to tell if a headphone meet or is going to meet the quality standard if burn in was real?


----------



## Qualcheduno

HungryPanda said:


> https://aliexpress.com/e/ccfqKK4p
> 
> These are the ones I have as well as the regular one. On my phone so don't think the link works


https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32841881186.html

This one should work


----------



## HungryPanda

Qualcheduno said:


> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32841881186.html
> 
> This one should work


Thanks for the link that is the one


----------



## waynes world

Willber said:


> Hmm, that's a bold statement. I have the RY4S and RY4S UE and they are both very good, but better than anything under $50? My EMXS-500 are better in some ways (e.g. soundstage) and I would hope that the EB2 I have on order will be better than all of them. But I realise it's all subjective...



Before they broke, when I had the Graphenes (old $29) in my ears, they were the best buds under $50.

Now though, when I have the RY4S in my ears (or the Kube 1.0's) , they are the best buds under $50.

But when I have the Willsound MK2's in my ears, _they _are definitely the best buds under $50.

And when I have the Fengru diy PK1 2.5mm 150ohm's in my ears (aka Linsoul 150's), there is no doubt that they are the best buds under $50.

Hmm, I think that my ears are very subjective! 

Having said that, all of the above buds are awesome imo.


----------



## Willber

waynes world said:


> Before they broke, when I had the Graphenes (old $29) in my ears, they were the best buds under $50.
> 
> Now though, when I have the RY4S in my ears (or the Kube 1.0's) , they are the best buds under $50.
> 
> ...


I know what you mean! There are a few that I currently rotate (the red ones in my sig) depending on mood and music, and each one seems to be 'the best' in some way while I'm listening to them even though they range from $4 (Sony) to $200 (AKG).

But my EB2 will *definitely *be The Best when they arrive.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

RodRevenge said:


> What makes me wonder if burn in actually exist is that almost never ends up in a negative result, the sound alwyas end up where the person wants it to end up (more mass, less peaks, more airy), placebos exist and can be quite powerful, also how are makers able to tell if a headphone meet or is going to meet the quality standard if burn in was real?



Yeah, that's true of course.  Like I say, I'm not a true believer.  But, I can definitely hear a difference between the Pandas and the Monks, and I remember finding the Pandas significantly more open sounding originally which was why I started listening primarily to them.  But now, I really find the Monks competing nicely with the Pandas.  The Monks still have more middy grunt, which I like, but the divide in the higher frequencies no longer seems as significant as it was originally..


----------



## nihontoman

RodRevenge said:


> What makes me wonder if burn in actually exist is that almost never ends up in a negative result, the sound alwyas end up where the person wants it to end up (more mass, less peaks, more airy), placebos exist and can be quite powerful, also how are makers able to tell if a headphone meet or is going to meet the quality standard if burn in was real?



well, burn in, working in of mechanical moving parts can in theory only be beneficial, because the stiff areas of the driver that need to be more flexible get worked in and should in theory be able to move with less internal stress and friction. I'm pretty sure that placebo is a real thing in burn in, but at the same time, more freely moving drivers mean much less distortion and truer to life reproduction of analogue signal.


----------



## Willber

HungryPanda said:


> Qualcheduno said:
> 
> 
> > https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32841881186.html
> ...


Here is a non-mobile link:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...arphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds-DJ/32841881186.html

That's the one I was comparing mine with. They are probably identical but strange about the different name.


----------



## RodRevenge

Btw guys, offtopic i know, but, my es100 just arrived, great little thing.


----------



## waynes world

RodRevenge said:


> Btw guys, offtopic i know, but, my es100 just arrived, great little thing.



Yeah baby, indeed it is! Do you have any balanced buds to try out with it?


----------



## RodRevenge

waynes world said:


> Yeah baby, indeed it is! Do you have any balanced buds to try out with it?


Yeah, i have a Monk+ espresso in 2.5 i received it as a "sorry for the trouble" almost a year ago, thats what i've been rocking since the es100 arrived and by 11.11 im getting the Linsoul's twin you talked about before.


----------



## waynes world (Nov 5, 2018)

RodRevenge said:


> Yeah, i have a Monk+ espresso in 2.5 i received it as a "sorry for the trouble" almost a year ago, thats what i've been rocking since the es100 arrived *and by 11.11 im getting the Linsoul's twin you talked about before.*



Well in that case, I suppose I don't need to suggest / order / demand that you to get them!

Seriously, good choice - you're gonna like them


----------



## rkw

RodRevenge said:


> What makes me wonder if burn in actually exist is that almost never ends up in a negative result


I've had the same thought as well. If burn in is real, it would also be logical that there is an ideal time when the component reaches its peak performance and then begin to degrade with further usage, like a bell curve.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

rkw said:


> I've had the same thought as well. If burn in is real, it would also be logical that there is an ideal time when the component reaches its peak performance and then begin to degrade with further usage, like a bell curve.



I look at it like having a new baseball glove. Its really stiff at first and while useable, its not really in its optimum state. Only after breaking the glove in does it become really usable. I only feel that breaking in is a real thing because I have had 3 different warranty claims on headphones in the past and all companies involved sent me new in box headphones as replacements. 2 of the headphones had broken ANC, but the headphones still worked fine without ANC. The 3rd headphone only had a broken inline cable mic. All 3 sounded completely different out of the box then their used counterparts. I also burn in headphones while listening to music. Sometimes, some phone change a little bit in character while I am listening. Usually less grain or less harshness ect. 

My only beef with burners is those that say it takes 100 hours or 200 hours to burn in something. My experience is that its actually a pretty fast change that happens fairly quick within the first few hours.


----------



## norymeoreason41

HungryPanda said:


> Thanks for the link that is the one



I really want to thank everyone for the great recommendations. I went ahead and pulled the trigger on on this one. I'm so excited, I ordered now vs. waiting for the 11.11 sale.  I'll report back once I receive. Thanks again!


----------



## Qualcheduno

Tips for sharing a link from the Aliexpress mobile app.

We all know that the "share" function on the AE app isn't very well implemented, because it gives us links which work only for those having the app.
So, here's a workaround for this problem:

First, simply use the share function and copy the link to clipboard, then paste the link in Chrome's navigation bar and go to the first result. Change the layout from mobile to desktop, and copy the link in the address bar. This link works for everyone.


----------



## miroslav

Willber said:


> I have the RY4S and RY4S UE and they are both very good...


So is there a difference in sound between the two? 

I just got the non-UE RY4S and they are very nice for the price, but not at the level of Snow Lotus 1.0+ or EMX500s IMO.


----------



## singledot02

Plan to buy RY4S UE but, was the Svara L, Willsound MK2, Linsoul BLD150 (but why no 3.5mm) and other $20-$70 price buds really a huge upgrade? i mean was it worth the price?
Player: LG V30
Genre: All but mostly HipHop, SlipKnot, Korn and some Dream Theater like bands..


----------



## jogawag

miroslav said:


> So is there a difference in sound between the two?
> 
> I just got the non-UE RY4S and they are very nice for the price, but not at the level of Snow Lotus 1.0+ or EMX500s IMO.



UE RY4S has clearer treble like EMX500 than non-UE RY4S.


----------



## jogawag

singledot02 said:


> Plan to buy RY4S UE but, was the Svara L, Willsound MK2, Linsoul BLD150 (but why no 3.5mm) and other $20-$70 price buds really a huge upgrade? i mean was it worth the price?
> Player: LG V30
> Genre: All but mostly HipHop, SlipKnot, Korn and some Dream Theater like bands..


RY4S UE has V-Shaped sound signature.
But IMO Svara L, Willsound MK2, (perhaps Linsoul BLD150 also) has strong bass sound signature.
So RY4S UE is low price but more fit to your Genre.


----------



## RodRevenge

jogawag said:


> RY4S UE has V-Shaped sound signature.
> But IMO Svara L, Willsound MK2, (perhaps Linsoul BLD150 also) has strong bass sound signature.
> So RY4S UE is low price but more fit to your Genre.


According to @HungryPanda the Linsoul is neutral not bassy.


----------



## HungryPanda

The Linsoul 150 has good bass response but does not bleed into mids


----------



## singledot02

how to use the Linsoul 150 in LG V30, i believe it only have 4.4 and 2.5 plug.. and if i will use adapter (another cost ), will you please recommend
decent 2.5 to 3.5 from aliexpress?  thanks a lot Panda Bear..


----------



## seanc6441

Qualcheduno said:


> Tips for sharing a link from the Aliexpress mobile app.
> 
> We all know that the "share" function on the AE app isn't very well implemented, because it gives us links which work only for those having the app.
> So, here's a workaround for this problem:
> ...


What a headache lol

It's a good tip but man AE need to sort that sh1t out...


----------



## Themilkman46290

Why don't you guys try the app? Prices are cheaper on the app, no bull, I noticed it a few days back, I found zishan dsd ak4495 on sale for 75, shared it but the link didn't work, so I told the person asking what store it was in, he said it was 106, i felt bad, guy whent through all the trouble and it was 106 not 75, then he pm me and said it's only on the app. Seems the app has some better prices


----------



## jogawag (Nov 6, 2018)

RodRevenge said:


> According to @HungryPanda the Linsoul is neutral not bassy.



I am sorry that I have not hear Yuin PK1, DIY PK1 nor Linsoul BLD150.


----------



## mbwilson111

Themilkman46290 said:


> Why don't you guys try the app? Prices are cheaper on the app, no bull, I noticed it a few days back, I found zishan dsd ak4495 on sale for 75, shared it but the link didn't work, so I told the person asking what store it was in, he said it was 106, i felt bad, guy whent through all the trouble and it was 106 not 75, then he pm me and said it's only on the app. Seems the app has some better prices



Often, some of us who do use the app to make purchases are using our PCs to read and reply to threads.  It is much easier,  for me anyway, to use my normal keyboard to type replies and it is easier to read the screen.  Also my PC loads the pages faster and often I am working on other projects on my PC or I am reading other web pages or Facebook... or listening to music through my desktop system.   Multitasking is much easier on a PC.  To me a phone is a phone... and mine is not even a smart one   I just want to be able to click on the links that people post so that I can see the item they are sharing.  At least include the model info so that I can search on ali for it myselt.  Just an unusable link with no info is useless for me.


----------



## Themilkman46290

mbwilson111 said:


> Often, some of us who do use the app to make purchases are using our PCs to read and reply to threads.  It is much easier,  for me anyway, to use my normal keyboard to type replies and it is easier to read the screen.  Also my PC loads the pages faster and often I am working on other projects on my PC or I am reading other web pages or Facebook... or listening to music through my desktop system.   Multitasking is much easier on a PC.  To me a phone is a phone... and mine is not even a smart one   I just want to be able to click on the links that people post so that I can see the item they are sharing.  At least include the model info so that I can search on ali for it myselt.  Just an unusable link with no info is useless for me.


I hear you, but like I said, there seems to be better prices on the app, I use computer too and yeah it's better then a phone for sure, but I have understood there are ways of using Android apps on computers, to get around that problem, like I said, it seems the app has added deals that the sites don't even show


----------



## mbwilson111

Themilkman46290 said:


> I hear you, but like I said, there seems to be better prices on the app, I use computer too and yeah it's better then a phone for sure, but I have understood there are ways of using Android apps on computers, to get around that problem, like I said, it seems the app has added deals that the sites don't even show



Yes, and I said we do use the app on my husband's phone to make the purchases when that is the case.  I prefer to not have a smartphone myself.  No need for one.  I have all my bases covered with other gear without having to suffer the annoyance of phone interruptions.



I


----------



## snip3r77

Themilkman46290 said:


> I hear you, but like I said, there seems to be better prices on the app, I use computer too and yeah it's better then a phone for sure, but I have understood there are ways of using Android apps on computers, to get around that problem, like I said, it seems the app has added deals that the sites don't even show


Would it work if you add to cart on Pc and pay with the app


----------



## Themilkman46290

mbwilson111 said:


> Yes, and I said we do use the app on my husband's phone to make the purchases when that is the case.  I prefer to not have a smartphone myself.  No need for one.  I have all my bases covered with other gear without having to suffer the annoyance of phone interruptions.
> 
> 
> 
> I


 yeah I used to get annoyed with my phone, people calling, telemarketing, wrong numbers, facebook, emails, now I switch sim cards every 6 months like a paranoid d___g dealer, no one calls, no one bothers, only father, wife and 2 friends have my number no Facebook on my phone and use a random email for gmail...... hmmm maybe it's time I buy a nokia banana


----------



## mbwilson111

Themilkman46290 said:


> yeah I used to get annoyed with my phone, people calling, telemarketing, wrong numbers, facebook, emails, now I switch sim cards every 6 months like a paranoid d___g dealer, no one calls, no one bothers, only father, wife and 2 friends have my number no Facebook on my phone and use a random email for gmail...... hmmm maybe it's time I buy a nokia banana



The phone that I have had for 5 years now... but I have not bothered to put minutes on it for a long time.  



Spoiler


----------



## seanc6441

Themilkman46290 said:


> Why don't you guys try the app? Prices are cheaper on the app, no bull, I noticed it a few days back, I found zishan dsd ak4495 on sale for 75, shared it but the link didn't work, so I told the person asking what store it was in, he said it was 106, i felt bad, guy whent through all the trouble and it was 106 not 75, then he pm me and said it's only on the app. Seems the app has some better prices


The android app is one of the best ive used in terms of UI too. I prefer it over the website to be honest. I always use the app.


----------



## Themilkman46290

snip3r77 said:


> Would it work if you add to cart on Pc and pay with the app


No idea


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 6, 2018)

Blox TM9 in the house




Super Light, soft cable (very nice cable), Unique sound (more on that in a second).

Sub bass is up to TOTL spec, it extends well and has good presence, not quite Vido/WS Mk2 levels of sub bass but easily more than Shozy BK. Compareable to emx500 levels.

From sub-mid bass it takes on a softer approach, there's not a big peak like emx500 or Rose Mojito or even shozy BK. It's full and calm, so it won't punch as hard but will handle ambient bass tracks and bass instruments with ease. (Correction: it punches hard foamless or with certain foams but I think the sub bass neutralises it in some instances were as other buds have a more defined punch due to quicker sub roll off.)

Low mids are were it weavers slightly, it could use more emphasis, it's massive soundstage comes at a price and that's the lighter approach to the vocal range which dips slightly for deeper vocals. Upper mids are surprisingly brighter, so there's plenty of detail and definition to carry the vocals, im just craving a little more weight to them.

Lower treble has a great neutral-neutral bright approach, it's got a good attack but is never sibilant, no complaints here, near perfect.

Upper treble is softer, it's lacking slightly in extension (although nothing compared to darker earbuds.) but still has presence. It's got enough sparkle with no foams, or very thin foams. But using thick full foams which is what want to do to thicken up the low mids, kills the treble, sadly.

Soundstage is effortless, big and wide. It's not magic though (as said above its a low mid dip that creates this effect) but it's impressive nonetheless. Imaging is crisp enough, well placed and natural.

Are these the best I've heard? Not in every department, but in soundstaging I'd say yes.

Still looking for a foam setup for these the beats foamless, but it's hard to achieve. Foamless seems to retain low mid bidy somehow (i think its the driver being closer to my ear) but i prefer the bass response with thin foams.


----------



## RodRevenge

jogawag said:


> I am sorry that I have not hear Yuin PK1, DIY PK1 nor Linsoul BLD150.


Yeah, i was just warning you, so you buy it knowing what to expect.


----------



## RodRevenge

seanc6441 said:


> The android app is one of the best ive used in terms of UI too. I prefer it over the website to be honest. I always use the app.


Yup the app is pretty good i even like it better than the amazon app.


----------



## seanc6441

RodRevenge said:


> Yup the app is pretty good i even like it better than the amazon app.


thats exactly the thought I had in my head. And amazon should be the gold standard of online stores.


----------



## RodRevenge

By the way guys if you own the es100 (or any other warmish source), the edifier h185 and like drums check out Max Roach's album Drums Unlimited with that set up, Beautiful.


----------



## silverfishla

Themilkman46290 said:


> I hear you, but like I said, there seems to be better prices on the app, I use computer too and yeah it's better then a phone for sure, but I have understood there are ways of using Android apps on computers, to get around that problem, like I said, it seems the app has added deals that the sites don't even show


Yup, the mobile app gives you better prices.  They have mobile price only sale items.  Most things that you buy will be a discount of a $1 to a few dollars more discount.  Why?  I don’t know, but true.


----------



## Danneq

Themilkman46290 said:


> Why don't you guys try the app? Prices are cheaper on the app, no bull, I noticed it a few days back, I found zishan dsd ak4495 on sale for 75, shared it but the link didn't work, so I told the person asking what store it was in, he said it was 106, i felt bad, guy whent through all the trouble and it was 106 not 75, then he pm me and said it's only on the app. Seems the app has some better prices



I used to look for stuff and place it in my wishlist on my PC and then use the Aliexpress app on my tablet to make the purchase, delay payment and make the acutal payment on my PC. A bit bothersome but it did give me better prices (often I delayed payment when buying from NiceNHK for example so that they could adjust prices).
After Swedish customs went crazy in March and put import taxes on everything from outside the EU I do not bother...


----------



## seanc6441

silverfishla said:


> Yup, the mobile app gives you better prices.  They have mobile price only sale items.  Most things that you buy will be a discount of a $1 to a few dollars more discount.  Why?  I don’t know, but true.


My bet is they have done research to show people are more inclined to impulse buy or to buy more when it's on the mobile app as it's so convient to just whip out the phone and hit buy, as compared to browsing on a PC.


----------



## subwoof3r (Nov 6, 2018)

Just received a mail from Woo !
*Blox YIN* is now ready for orders 
This is the new model from Blox, which is priced at 29$ shipped.
According to Woo, the new model has exact same shell and cable of TM9, but with a different driver.

That looks cheap, so I guess no risk to try! I think I will order one.

_**edit*: *ordered!_


----------



## subwoof3r

Outch! bad news, Woo mailed me again after ordering YIN. It was a keyboard mistake! the price is 279 usd shipped so the same as TM9.
My bad.. I won't buy it this time and will wait for some reviews first


----------



## Ziggomatic

Currently in Seattle coping with US midterm election stress by listening to my hardcore/metal playlist on the Penon BS1 Official (fed by the Cayin i5).

These are some really good earphones, y'all.


----------



## Muniek66

Dear Head-fi-ers!

Do you recommend any upgrade for VE Monk Candy in the budget up to 50$ (including 11.11 promotions)? They would play with Shanling M0 or Xduoo X3 II. I wonder about praised Nicehck EB2, but I don't know if it's a good way regarding to sound signature.

Thanks in advance for your help.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 6, 2018)

Muniek66 said:


> Dear Head-fi-ers!
> 
> Do you recommend any upgrade for VE Monk Candy in the budget up to 50$ (including 11.11 promotions)? They would play with Shanling M0 or Xduoo X3 II. I wonder about praised Nicehck EB2, but I don't know if it's a good way regarding to sound signature.
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help.


Depends on which aspects you want to upgrade? Is the bass lacking? Is it the treble? Overall detail? Soundstage?

I think the Vido, and WS MK2 share similarities with the monk but have more bass, more detail over all, and slightly more treble extension. Both with thin foams, like used on the monk or the ones from aliexpress.

I think a nice successor to the monk sound is the docomo/pk buds, they sound a bit sweeter and more balanced but retain that mid range and vocal goodness.


----------



## jogawag (Nov 6, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Depends on which aspects you want to upgrade? Is the bass lacking? Is it the treble? Overall detail? Soundstage?
> 
> I think the Vido, and WS MK2 share similarities with the monk but have more bass, more detail over all, and slightly more treble extension. Both with thin foams, like used on the monk or the ones from aliexpress.
> 
> I think a nice successor to the monk sound is the docomo/pk buds, they sound a bit sweeter and more balanced but retain that mid range and vocal goodness.



What??? "I think a nice successor to the monk sound is the docomo/pk buds,"???
The docomo/pk buds was made from 2006 or 2007, so it must be that "a nice successor to the docomo/pk buds sound is the monk".
And please tell me the link where did you purchase docomo buds.

By the way, have you connected the SR2 driver to the cable of Shozy Cygnus? And did you hear the bass of that buds?


----------



## Danneq

I have to say that SWD2+ is by far the best sounding earbuds with Yuin shells I've ever heard! Sub bass might be lacking compared to earbuds with MX500 shells but dang, is the soundstage wide and deep! Instrument layering and positioning is top notch and they are not bright enough to be harsh sounding. Have only compared them a bit to Shozy BK and SWD2+ won on TKO about 2 minutes into the first round...


----------



## seanc6441

jogawag said:


> What??? "I think a nice successor to the monk sound is the docomo/pk buds,"???
> The docomo/pk buds was made from 2006 or 2007, so it must be that "a nice successor to the docomo/pk buds sound is the monk".
> And please tell me the link where did you purchase docomo buds.
> 
> By the way, have you connected the SR2 driver to the cable of Shozy Cygnus? And did you hear the bass of that buds?


I meant a successor sound wise because it's better in my opinion but has similar attributes. I also meant in general the cygnus and certain diy pk2.

Although I realise the docomo has its own shell, so i should have clarified that!

Haven't got around to it yet, been too busy to work on diy stuff but soon


----------



## waynes world

Danneq said:


> I used to look for stuff and place it in my wishlist on my PC and then use the Aliexpress app on my tablet to make the purchase, delay payment and make the acutal payment on my PC. A bit bothersome but it did give me better prices (often I delayed payment when buying from NiceNHK for example so that they could adjust prices).
> After Swedish customs went crazy in March and put import taxes on everything from outside the EU I do not bother...



Good tip!



seanc6441 said:


> My bet is they have done research to show people are more inclined to impulse buy or to buy more when it's on the mobile app as it's so convient to just whip out the phone and hit buy, as compared to browsing on a PC.



Yeah, that's all I need - _more_ impulse purchasing! I mean, I impulse purchased a $30 mechanical keyboard the other day! (fortunately, I really like it).



Ziggomatic said:


> Currently in Seattle coping with US midterm election stress by listening to my hardcore/metal playlist on the Penon BS1 Official (fed by the Cayin i5).



Your northern brothers and sisters (aka Canadians) are stressing right along with you lol!


----------



## jogawag (Nov 7, 2018)

I finally received the earbuds of "Diy SR2 16ohms TPE-wire" in the link below.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/diy...ohms-32ohms-150ohms-TPE-wire/32801646835.html

Before, I purchased and liked "Diy SR2 PRO 16ohms Silver plated-wire" which uses the same driver, so I recommended this to everyone in this forum.
However, because I began to feel that the treble of this earbuds sounds too sharp and strong, I changed the connection to the copper wire cable of Shozy Cygnus. And it became a sound signature of V-Shaped which is sufficiently beautiful treble and strong bass, although this is Docomo/PK Shell type earbuds.
So I purchased the earbuds of "Diy SR2 16ohms TPE-wire" version which uses copper wire .
It is burned-in for only 20 hours yet (100 hours needed), but it has a similar sound signature.
I think this has the best V-Shaped sound among earbuds of 16ohms Docomo/PK Shell below 50usd.

I could purchase it at 12usd by negotiation to seller, I will recommend strongly this earbuds for 11/11.
As earPad I recommend you double Pads as to put the DounutsPad on the VE thin Pad.

Perhaps It is seemed that I am boy who cried wolf...

(Before, I'm very sorry to those who purchased the "Diy SR2 PRO 16ohms Silver plated-wire".
But they can make sound similar by changing to connect to the copper cable like fengru.
By the way, the driver of "Diy SR2 16ohms" Is 11.33usd in the link below.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SUN...fever-headphone-unit-A8-style/1984665598.html)


----------



## Daniel Vilariño

Hello guys, any experience with Toneking Unicorn (https://penonaudio.com/toneking-unicorn.html)? Is there any difference betwen Unicorn, TO65 and Tomahawk Z? I'm interested on those for 11.11 but there is not too much info. Thanks


----------



## vetsin (Nov 7, 2018)

vetsin said:


> I'm not a firm believer of the burn-in process but do it anyway. I just left my Toneking T0200 buds playing music on a Sony Walkman for about 48 hours, maybe a bit more. Looks like the sound did change.
> Initially, I decided to put doughnut foams as they seemed veiled but now I prefer regular foams.
> I also discovered that my music streaming service is EQing by default, the highs were a bit piercing and it was hurting my ears so I checked the EQ option and found that it was not flat. I never noticed this until I got the TO200.



Just an update on my TO200. The sound definitely did change, a lot actually. From being veiled at the beginning it is now very detailed and it requires very low volume on my LG V20, just 15 is enough for some songs despite the high impedance.

By the way, thanks @HungryPanda for the recommendation!



RodRevenge said:


> What makes me wonder if burn in actually exist is that almost never ends up in a negative result, the sound alwyas end up where the person wants it to end up (more mass, less peaks, more airy), placebos exist and can be quite powerful, also how are makers able to tell if a headphone meet or is going to meet the quality standard if burn in was real?



@RodRevenge , after having this earphones for a few days, I'm definitely convinced burn-in does occur, although not for all earphones/cases as I also noticed no change in a pair of earphones I gifted my brother. And I'm still having some problems with the high's in this pair so I can't say that it "always end up where the person wants it to end up". I'm using EQ to balance things out and the TO200 does respond well. I also agree placebo exists.

As for how manufacturers know if the finished product is up to par they most likely rely on ensuring the quality of parts and workmanship and some random testing.


----------



## nxnje

jogawag said:


> I finally received the earbuds of "Diy SR2 16ohms TPE-wire" in the link below.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/diy...ohms-32ohms-150ohms-TPE-wire/32801646835.html
> 
> Before, I purchased and liked "Diy SR2 PRO 16ohms Silver plated-wire" which uses the same driver, so I recommended this to everyone in this forum.
> ...



Then you're sayin your opinions about a pair of DIY sr2 earbuds, but everything is after modding or placing more pads here and there.. 
But how do they sound at a stock status?
I mean i can make quite every headphone bassy by equalizing and modding but the stock status is the one which makes the grabbing decision or not.


----------



## jogawag

nxnje said:


> Then you're sayin your opinions about a pair of DIY sr2 earbuds, but everything is after modding or placing more pads here and there..
> But how do they sound at a stock status?
> I mean i can make quite every headphone bassy by equalizing and modding but the stock status is the one which makes the grabbing decision or not.



Do you mean that a stock status is naked earbuds?
If you hear naked DIY sr2, it will sound more sharp treble and more strong mid-bass than the status with pads.


----------



## nxnje

Not naked.
Stock single pads, flat equalizer, stock cable.


----------



## jogawag (Nov 7, 2018)

nxnje said:


> Not naked.
> Stock single pads, flat equalizer, stock cable.



So it will sound more mild treble and more weak bass than the status with double pads.
But I always hear every Docomo/PK type earbuds using double pads.


----------



## singledot02

torn between :
 fengru diy pk1 2.5mm 150ohm (is this Linsoul BLD150?) = $17 in my country
 or Willsound MK2 = $37 in my country

all rounder HipHop Metal RNB POP


----------



## cocolinho

don't know DIY PK1 but WS MK2 are really great earbuds & a bargain for the requested price.


----------



## groucho69

jogawag said:


> I finally received the earbuds of "Diy SR2 16ohms TPE-wire" in the link below.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/diy...ohms-32ohms-150ohms-TPE-wire/32801646835.html
> 
> Before, I purchased and liked "Diy SR2 PRO 16ohms Silver plated-wire" which uses the same driver, so I recommended this to everyone in this forum.
> ...



Not sure I could buy from Chitty Store.


----------



## chaiyuta

Thank Cross Lambda Audio to make me a special Monk Lite Mod with his new, which is not officially launched, SPC Starlight project~.


----------



## BrunoC

Hello,

I tried to find info about these two earbuds, but not much is available.

Anyone knows something about the sound definition and signature, quality of bass, medium and highs?

*- FAAEAL Rosemary 150ohms
- Toneking Ros1*

Thanks!


----------



## mbwilson111

groucho69 said:


> Not sure I could buy from Chitty Store.



Sure you can.  We did.


----------



## mbwilson111

BrunoC said:


> Hello,
> 
> I tried to find info about these two earbuds, but not much is available.
> 
> ...



I have both and like them both.  I am not good at comparing.  I will ask my husband @HungryPanda if he has time to try later.

Right now I am unable to stop listening to my Snow Lotus 1.0+ that arrived today


----------



## BrunoC

Thanks, that would be great! I trust Pandas.


----------



## RevPizzaguy

mbwilson111 said:


> Right now I am unable to stop listening to my Snow Lotus 1.0+ that arrived today



Just wait until you let the SL 1.0+ burn in for several days. I found they really opened up and evened out after about 100 hours total. I still haven't been able to stop listening to mine...


----------



## mbwilson111

RevPizzaguy said:


> Just wait until you let the SL 1.0+ burn in for several days. I found they really opened up and evened out after about 100 hours total. I still haven't been able to stop listening to mine...



Three albums in....have to stop...need lunch...almost 5pm, LOL.  Dire Straits sounds great!

I will leave them burning in.


----------



## waynes world

singledot02 said:


> torn between :
> fengru diy pk1 2.5mm 150ohm (is this Linsoul BLD150?) = $17 in my country
> or Willsound MK2 = $37 in my country
> 
> all rounder HipHop Metal RNB POP



I'm willing to wager that the  fengru diy pk1 2.5mm 150ohm is the same as the linsoul. But nobody has verified it yet.

Anyway, both the fengru's and the willsounds are awesome. The biggest difference imo is that the fengru's are more neutral/balanced, whereas the mk2's have more bass/mid-bass and therefore warmth. I'm not sure which would be better for your genres, but the obvious answer is to get both


----------



## seanc6441

nxnje said:


> Then you're sayin your opinions about a pair of DIY sr2 earbuds, but everything is after modding or placing more pads here and there..
> But how do they sound at a stock status?
> I mean i can make quite every headphone bassy by equalizing and modding but the stock status is the one which makes the grabbing decision or not.


He didn't mention EQ though. Modding and swapping foams is common place in this thread because you are tweaking $15 earbuds so its low risk high reward. Especially since it's easy to change the sound profile with mods.

For instance I would never recommend stock Rose Mojito, it's harsh sounding and lacks balance. But a few tweaks with foams, a recable maybe and it's one of if not my favorite earbud...

As long as he doesn't lie and say his unit is stock when it's not, i don't see the harm.


----------



## singledot02

waynes world said:


> I'm willing to wager that the  fengru diy pk1 2.5mm 150ohm is the same as the linsoul. But nobody has verified it yet.
> 
> Anyway, both the fengru's and the willsounds are awesome. The biggest difference imo is that the fengru's are more neutral/balanced, whereas the mk2's have more bass/mid-bass and therefore warmth. I'm not sure which would be better for your genres, but the obvious answer is to get both


You are making me broke man.. If you only have to choose 1, what would it be?


----------



## waynes world

singledot02 said:


> You are making me broke man.. If you only have to choose 1, what would it be?



Choose one over the other? Sorry, can't be done lol. Do you have a balanced source though?


----------



## nxnje

seanc6441 said:


> He didn't mention EQ though. Modding and swapping foams is common place in this thread because you are tweaking $15 earbuds so its low risk high reward. Especially since it's easy to change the sound profile with mods.
> 
> For instance I would never recommend stock Rose Mojito, it's harsh sounding and lacks balance. But a few tweaks with foams, a recable maybe and it's one of if not my favorite earbud...
> 
> As long as he doesn't lie and say his unit is stock when it's not, i don't see the harm.



Seems like you didn't understand what i meant as you quite described my message quite as a criticism or offense.
I mentioned EQ my self, and didn't say he did, just because i intended this: if i ask for an earbud, it means i'm searching for an earbud that sounds like i ask just out from the box. Other mods are appreciated but after a neutral description of the earbud just out of the box, with stock tips and stock cable.
He did then, so i'm quite happy.


----------



## HungryPanda

BrunoC said:


> Hello,
> 
> I tried to find info about these two earbuds, but not much is available.
> 
> ...


Toneking Rose 1 Bass is quite light, Mids are very good, Treble very clean not sibilant. Sound stage is wide, Signature is balanced and bright. Great for folk and singer-songwriters.

FAAEAL Rosemary 150 ohm, Bass is thick and powerful, Mids are slightly recessed, Treble rolls off early so not sharp, Sound stage is small, Signature is on the dark side but great for rock and electronic music.

I prefer FAAEAL Rosemary 150 ohm as it has good punch with the music I like (I am using it with a good desktop amp though)


----------



## iron2k

I didn´t know you can buy the *FAAEAL Snow Lotus 1.0+* from amazon with prime shipping
https://www.amazon.com/FAAEAL-Snow-...ie=UTF8&qid=1541617931&sr=1-1&keywords=faaeal

*FAAEAL Snow-lotus 2.0*
https://www.amazon.com/FAAEAL-Snow-...ie=UTF8&qid=1541617931&sr=1-5&keywords=faaeal


----------



## RevPizzaguy

iron2k said:


> I didn´t know you can buy the *FAAEAL Snow Lotus 1.0+* from amazon with prime shipping
> https://www.amazon.com/FAAEAL-Snow-...ie=UTF8&qid=1541617931&sr=1-1&keywords=faaeal
> 
> *FAAEAL Snow-lotus 2.0*
> https://www.amazon.com/FAAEAL-Snow-...ie=UTF8&qid=1541617931&sr=1-5&keywords=faaeal



That's how I got mine!


----------



## mbwilson111

iron2k said:


> I didn´t know you can buy the *FAAEAL Snow Lotus 1.0+* from amazon with prime shipping
> https://www.amazon.com/FAAEAL-Snow-...ie=UTF8&qid=1541617931&sr=1-1&keywords=faaeal
> 
> *FAAEAL Snow-lotus 2.0*
> https://www.amazon.com/FAAEAL-Snow-...ie=UTF8&qid=1541617931&sr=1-5&keywords=faaeal



Yes but it looks like only the blue option is the 1.0+.   The others are the 1.0

I had to use aliexpress because amazon uk did not have it. Mine is silver.  Will get a photo tomorrow.

My husband is listening to it right now.


----------



## RevPizzaguy

mbwilson111 said:


> Yes but it looks like only the blue option is the 1.0+.   The others are the 1.0
> 
> I had to use aliexpress because amazon uk did not have it. Mine is silver.  Will get a photo tomorrow.
> 
> My husband is listening to it right now.



I bought the last silver 1.0+ that the seller on Amazon had available for Prime shipping.


----------



## subwoof3r

seanc6441 said:


> Blox TM9 in the house


Nice to see back my Blox TM9 
Enjoy!


----------



## subwoof3r (Nov 7, 2018)

I received my *RY4S* today!

After burning them for 3 hours, they sound already very good to me. They have larger soundstage than GM500, they are bright but have less clarity and precision than GM500 in treble, but still very detailed overall.
Clearly, this is a V shape sounding, but definitely a good one.

They lack a bit of mids even if they are not lacking, it's just that they are a bit hidden due to bass and treble, but this is how V signature should be anyway.
I really enjoy the return of the subbass that were missing me a bit from EMX500S. Bass is really punchy but more controlled than MK2 I would say. Much enjoyment there!
MK2 has more mids presence and are softer. MK2 is more smooth in mids and highs, I prefer the energy of RY4S. Overall, I feel like I already prefer RY4S than MK2.
As usual, let's see how they wil performs in several days of proper burning


----------



## RevPizzaguy

mbwilson111 said:


> Three albums in....have to stop...need lunch...almost 5pm, LOL.  Dire Straits sounds great!
> 
> I will leave them burning in.



So, I wanted to ask your opinion. So far, compared to the vast collection of buds you have, how would you rate the SL 1.0+? I had my eye on a few from your collection, but curious if they would really be a step up from the SL 1.0+, or just more of the same (or worse).


----------



## nhlean96

Received my FAAEAL Z Sound, looks like they're discontinued since all shop has removed them.
Overall they're fine for $5, cable feels durable like the Monk+, the shell is similar to EB2 without vent holes. The shell has nice finish and fits nicely to my small ear.
The sound is mid-centric with good bass slam mostly mid-bass. Sounds great with vocal and other kinds of music that don't have much instrument floating around. Separation is not good for a earbud, closer to an IEMs. Mid sometimes can be shouty which I utterly dislike. My brother has a pair of Snow Lotus 1.0+ and they sound way better than this despite costing more $3 
In conclusion,
JUST GO FOR THE SNOW LOTUS 1.0+.


----------



## fairx

Speaking of burn in. My ry4s ue sounds really bright today. Is it me? Is is my source ? Plug it to my ole Fiio Q1 and its sounds normal bright, while its should be smoother. 

How about others? Does your ry4s ue gradually becoming brighter with burn in ?


----------



## subwoof3r

fairx said:


> Speaking of burn in. My ry4s ue sounds really bright today. Is it me? Is is my source ? Plug it to my ole Fiio Q1 and its sounds normal bright, while its should be smoother.
> 
> How about others? Does your ry4s ue gradually becoming brighter with burn in ?


My pair OOTB was already bright plugged on an "anti-bright" source (Fostex HP-8C), can't imagine on any other source! lol, but I will try 

RY4S is very warm sounding, and very enveloping sound. Although there is some kind of coloration. I really like it, incredible bargain for the price.
Sometimes I'm asking myself why spending 200+ $$ on high end earbuds when you can have already very close sounding on these 10$ earbuds, can't imagine with some good cable swap! (silver/copper).
Personally I prefer RY4S instead of GM500 because GM500 is lacking a bit of bass extension to me, and I'm more accomodated to slight V sounding in general (due to my favorite music genres).

I will buy a pair of Snow Lotus 1.0+ once it will be available back and make a compare with RY4S


----------



## BrunoC

HungryPanda said:


> Toneking Rose 1 Bass is quite light, Mids are very good, Treble very clean not sibilant. Sound stage is wide, Signature is balanced and bright. Great for folk and singer-songwriters.
> 
> FAAEAL Rosemary 150 ohm, Bass is thick and powerful, Mids are slightly recessed, Treble rolls off early so not sharp, Sound stage is small, Signature is on the dark side but great for rock and electronic music.
> 
> I prefer FAAEAL Rosemary 150 ohm as it has good punch with the music I like (I am using it with a good desktop amp though)



Thanks!

What do you thing about FAAEAL Rosemary 150 ohm VS Snow Lotus 1.0+ ? 


Note: As a reference, my favorite earbuds are: Willsound MK2, EMX500, NiceHCK EB2.


----------



## cocolinho

subwoof3r said:


> Sometimes I'm asking myself why spending 200+ $$ on high end earbuds when you can have already very close sounding on these 10$ earbuds, can't imagine with some good cable swap! (silver/copper).



So true! I need to order these ry4s I believe


----------



## jogawag (Nov 8, 2018)

About a year ago, @SweetEars and I have found UE RY4S and been recommending to this forum for the first time,
but it feels strange that at this time now UE RY4S is getting popular in this forum so much. . .


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 8, 2018)

Oh boy these RY4S are good... They get close to my preferred sound sig. Just need to add slightly more to the bass-low mids emphasis when using thin ali foams and these give a visceral sound.

I love how raw and energetic these are, they sound open and big enough but intimate in its presentation. I would call them neither smooth nor harsh, just about right in terms of sounding textured but pleasant and non fatiguing.

Just adding a low shelf filter of +2db that contines into the low mids and these sound perfect. So I'm thinking (hoping more like) that opening the second bass port will have a similar effect...

Between these and the emx500 we are really spoiled with the quality of budget earbuds.


----------



## seanc6441

I'm definitely buying a second and third one of these RY4S and recabling them. 8 core SPC or OCC may work nicely here if it does indeed thicken up the lower frequencies.


----------



## subwoof3r

seanc6441 said:


> I'm definitely buying a second and third one of these RY4S and recabling them. 8 core SPC or OCC may work nicely here if it does indeed thicken up the lower frequencies.


I really think they worth a recabling too, but not sure what to choose: copper or silver ? copper will brings more bass than it needs already which could not be interesting, but silver will brings more clarity and then more brightness. What do you think?
I think I will go first for silver and see..


----------



## Themilkman46290

So, I been bothering all you guys for a wile about what buds have good sub bass and blah blah blah, I decided to go with samsara's and ty hi-z hp320 but now I have my wonderful wife who is trying to find herself something just as good( what's mine is hers too so she has those two plus seahf 400ohms) she likes allot of old school hip hop ( wutang, MF doom etc) and she likes some classical ( her parents are balet choreographers/composers)  because of this I find it hard to find her a good pair of buds, she didn't like ath-m50x she does like grado sr80 and emu purple hearts, but she doesn't like bright sound signatures, and we both use high impedance sources like zishan dsd, z3,z1 Walnut v2. We plan to get a little bear b4 and I have a Walnut F1 and fiio a3 what would be the best options around $50-130 that would have not such recessed mids, decent sub bass, and nice treble without being very bright.

I know I ask allot, I do appreciate your guys help, so far every recommended bud I got have been simply amazing, you guys really are awesome


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 8, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> I really think they worth a recabling too, but not sure what to choose: copper or silver ? copper will brings more bass than it needs already which could not be interesting, but silver will brings more clarity and then more brightness. What do you think?
> I think I will go first for silver and see..


Copper and thin foam if you need to tighten the bass but bring up the low mids slightly. It's already quite a bright earbud, copper will bring out the low mids more if the common consensus is to be believed. I thought the boosting was needed at around 600-1khz but actual that range was very close neutral to my ears, instead it was from 150-400 roughly speaking that benefitted the most from boosting, I'm guessing that's where the dip is, after boosting that vocals sound fuller, strings sound richer and there's no sense of V shape but more balanced and still very dynamic and big sounding.

The bass is great with full foams but since i prefer to use the thin foams to open up the sound, i feel there's no harm if the bass is boosted 1-2 db with the thin foams, it sounds right.

I think the upper mids-treble are at a really nice level and balance. Like a good headphone tuning. If a cable swap can enhance the low mids and not hinder the upper frequencies too much ill be very happy with the sound.

Something like the shozy bk cable would be perfect. Or an 8 core spc cable maybe.


----------



## chinmie

jogawag said:


> About a year ago, @SweetEars and I have found UE RY4S and been recommending to this forum for the first time,
> but it feels strange that at this time now UE RY4S is getting popular in this forum so much. . .



 it's a late bloomer for sure. i also found out about it quite some time ago when my brother bought it. I guess when it came out, there are abundant other new earbuds that people bought other snd missed/didn't bother about the RY4S. now that the market is somewhat slowing down, these old gems seems to beginning to catch up


----------



## Ziggomatic (Nov 8, 2018)

Themilkman46290 said:


> So, I been bothering all you guys for a wile about what buds have good sub bass and blah blah blah, I decided to go with samsara's and ty hi-z hp320 but now I have my wonderful wife who is trying to find herself something just as good( what's mine is hers too so she has those two plus seahf 400ohms) she likes allot of old school hip hop ( wutang, MF doom etc) and she likes some classical ( her parents are balet choreographers/composers)  because of this I find it hard to find her a good pair of buds, she didn't like ath-m50x she does like grado sr80 and emu purple hearts, but she doesn't like bright sound signatures, and we both use high impedance sources like zishan dsd, z3,z1 Walnut v2. We plan to get a little bear b4 and I have a Walnut F1 and fiio a3 what would be the best options around $50-130 that would have not such recessed mids, decent sub bass, and nice treble without being very bright.
> 
> I know I ask allot, I do appreciate your guys help, so far every recommended bud I got have been simply amazing, you guys really are awesome



Not sure others would agree it's great for rap music, but the fact she likes the Grado sound made me think of the Toneking TO400s.


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Nov 8, 2018)

Ziggomatic said:


> Not sure others would agree it's great for rap music, but the fact she likes the Grado sound made me think of the Toneking TO400s.


 thanks for the reply. the hip hop we listen to isn't exactly the same as rap. Rap seems to be all the crap on the radio with way too much bass and overly simple beats ( nicehck eb200 seem good enough for that) most of the hip-hop we listen to has a lot of jazz samples with added bass ( mf doom, Quasimodo, madlib, Gorillaz) it's why I been having a hard time with it, too mid centric and the bass is weak, but v shaped sound makes the voices sound a bit off, I have been very curious with the toneking to200 and to400 but I thought they maybe too bright? Can anyone tell me, do the to200's bass bleed into the mids? And would you guys call them bright?  Am I expecting too much from a single dynamic driver? I noticed my kz zsr seem to be real good at those genre is there something in the $50-100 range with similar tuning?


----------



## jogawag

chinmie said:


> it's a late bloomer for sure. i also found out about it quite some time ago when my brother bought it. I guess when it came out, there are abundant other new earbuds that people bought other snd missed/didn't bother about the RY4S. now that the market is somewhat slowing down, these old gems seems to beginning to catch up


Quite some time ago did your brother buy UE RY4S? Or ordinary RY4S?
We should have found, purchased and recommended UE RY4S immediately after release.


----------



## Ziggomatic

Themilkman46290 said:


> thanks for the reply. the hip hop we listen to isn't exactly the same as rap. Rap seems to be all the crap on the radio with way too much bass and overly simple beats ( nicehck eb200 seem good enough for that) most of the hip-hop we listen to has a lot of jazz samples with added bass ( mf doom, Quasimodo, madlib, Gorillaz) it's why I been having a hard time with it, too mid centric and the bass is weak, but v shaped sound makes the voices sound a bit off, I have been very curious with the toneking to200 and to400 but I thought they maybe too bright? Can anyone tell me, do the to200's bass bleed into the mids? And would you guys call them bright?  Am I expecting too much from a single dynamic driver? I noticed my kz zsr seem to be real good at those genre is there something in the $50-100 range with similar tuning?



I think the TO400s sound great with hip hop, and I personally don't think they're too bright (and I'm sensitive to treble peaks). Haven't heard the TO200s, but I've heard they sound nice, with more bass quantity than the TO400s.


----------



## Muniek66

seanc6441 said:


> Depends on which aspects you want to upgrade? Is the bass lacking? Is it the treble? Overall detail? Soundstage?
> 
> I think the Vido, and WS MK2 share similarities with the monk but have more bass, more detail over all, and slightly more treble extension. Both with thin foams, like used on the monk or the ones from aliexpress.
> 
> I think a nice successor to the monk sound is the docomo/pk buds, they sound a bit sweeter and more balanced but retain that mid range and vocal goodness.




I would like to improve bass depth and details. I care about maintaining the naturalness of sound, dynamics and musicality .

Do you mean this PK2 model:

http://bit.ly/2OAVx4a

?

I was thinking about another version of Monks, for example with silver cable:

https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1Khw8cXqZBuNjt_jqq6ymzpXaH.jpg


----------



## Themilkman46290

Ziggomatic said:


> I think the TO400s sound great with hip hop, and I personally don't think they're too bright (and I'm sensitive to treble peaks). Haven't heard the TO200s, but I've heard they sound nice, with more bass quantity than the TO400s.


Well then I think I will add these to the list for 11.11, thanks for clearing it up, she is also a bit sensitive to treble so I am glad to hear there not too bright


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 8, 2018)

Muniek66 said:


> I would like to improve bass depth and details. I care about maintaining the naturalness of sound, dynamics and musicality .
> 
> Do you mean this PK2 model:
> 
> ...


Ry4s or willsound mk2 is good options then. Ry4s is a little brighter than mk2. I prefer the Ry4s tonality and it has better bass control, but the mk2 has more relaxed mids and highs if you are sensitive to brightness.

It really depends on your definition of natural. If you mean like great timbre, i think some of the pk buds sound great albeit mid centric (like the monks but to a lesser degree).

If you mean the most neutral, mk2 and ry4s are far more neutral across the spectum because they have sub bass, treble extension and *kind of* natural timbre. I say kind of because each has it's own little flaws but for the most part they sound realistic especially if you play around with the foam choices.

Mk2 and ry4s get closer to a full size headphone sound which is phenomenal for the price. Same goes for emx500 but it's a little more U shaped and the two I mention above have a dry tonality like the monks which can be perceived as natural but analytical with plenty of detail.


----------



## chinmie

jogawag said:


> Quite some time ago did your brother buy UE RY4S? Or ordinary RY4S?
> We should have found, purchased and recommended UE RY4S immediately after release.



the regular (the one i tried),but he did said he like it so much and going to purchase the UE and a couple more for her daughters, so i think now he has both


----------



## seanc6441

Muniek66 said:


> I would like to improve bass depth and details. I care about maintaining the naturalness of sound, dynamics and musicality .
> 
> Do you mean this PK2 model:
> 
> ...


Fair warning though the RY4S is considerably brighter than the monks, mk2 is only moderately brighter. R4ys sounds raw and powerful which I love. But I love bright highs and full lows in my earbuds so I've gotten used to it.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 8, 2018)

chinmie said:


> the regular (the one i tried),but he did said he like it so much and going to purchase the UE and a couple more for her daughters, so i think now he has both


I really think if the cable of shozy bk can make a difference it would be amazing on the RY4s, since the bk is incredibly thick in the low mids and ry4s could use a little boost there.

Too bad we cannot buy the very same cable in diy form.... But ill try all my other cables I bought to see what happens.

The dynamics and layering is quite special for $12. I say this after having the blox tm9 and mojito in my ears...

Compared to stock vido with old monk thin foams which is nice in tonality and similar dry tone but just doesn't have the same spartial depth and crisp imaging.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Fair warning though the RY4S is considerably brighter than the monks, mk2 is only moderately brighter. R4ys sounds raw and powerful which I love. But I love bright highs and full lows in my earbuds so I've gotten used to it.



from memory, the RY4S is fine with thicker foams, while i like my MK2 with thin foams



seanc6441 said:


> I really think if the cable of shozy bk can make a difference it would be amazing on the RY4s, since the bk is incredibly thick in the low mids and ry4s could use a little boost there.
> 
> Too bad we cannot buy the very same cable in diy form.... But ill try all my other cables I bought to see what happens.
> 
> ...



my friend is selling his original BK cable on my local forum, you could contact him if you want 

how's your TM9 holding up to your black ling? i held off from buying it after auditioning it, and got a great deal on mint Samsara and ATH R70X instead


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 8, 2018)

chinmie said:


> from memory, the RY4S is fine with thicker foams, while i like my MK2 with thin foams
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Black ling is on the way back to me after rattle in the right driver, ak store took care of it for me so credit to them.

Once it arrives I'll compare.

I'm torn on the tm9 though, i want it to either be brighter or darker so i can use foams to adjust its sound. The treble is below neutral, smooth and relaxed. But the mids are much brighter, meaning the low mids are dipped and vocals sound clear and light.

It's like the emx500 but with 10% more sub bass and 15% less treble and like 20% more smoothed out So it sounds much more mellow overall. But I was hoping for it to be my TOTL darker sounding earbud for relaxed listening and very full musical mids. But it's not quite there as the vocals are not particularly weighty and textured (even emx500 has slightly more vocal body i think.)

It's the perfect totl bud for those who love deep bass, clear mids but have sensitivity to treble. It's smooth and has a massive SS and bass is deep and rounded even with thin foam.

I'll spend another while adjusting to it, and swapping foams and see how I like it best. By then i should have the ling back for comparison.

So far it sounds best with no foams or with old monk thin foams, this way it's the most balanced and still sounds full. Like a big driver open back headphone.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> It's the perfect totl bud for those who love deep bass, clear mids but have sensitivity to treble. It's smooth and has a massive SS and bass is deep and rounded even with thin foam.



I might really like it - or at least enjoy having it in my collection.... if it were only $20 or so!


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Black ling is on the way back to me after rattle in the right driver, ak store took care of it for me so credit to them.
> 
> Once it arrives I'll compare.
> 
> ...



yes, i agree. i can only tolerate the TM9 after using it with thin foams. my friend who owns it also agree, and ask me to give him some more thin foams for spare 

to this day i still choose the Liebesleid, SWD2+, Samsara, PS100-500, and Yinman 500 as my personal favorites among the TOTLs 

and of course the Willsound MK's and PK16 as legit giant slayers


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> It's like the emx500 but with 10% more sub bass and 15% less treble and like 20% more smoothed out



Wow, you must have some very sophisticated measuring equipment!


----------



## RodRevenge

seanc6441 said:


> Black ling is on the way back to me after rattle in the right driver, ak store took care of it for me so credit to them.
> 
> Once it arrives I'll compare.
> 
> ...





seanc6441 said:


> Black ling is on the way back to me after rattle in the right driver, ak store took care of it for me so credit to them.
> 
> Once it arrives I'll compare.
> 
> ...


I wonder how "treble sensitive" is still a thing, when most of the fatigue, discomfort (sibilance and crap) lies arround the 2k-5k region which is know as upper midrange for the most part.


----------



## RodRevenge

mbwilson111 said:


> Wow, you must have some very sophisticated measuring equipment!


Human body is a fine machine ma'am, that being said, human ears are archaic as ****.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Wow, you must have some very sophisticated measuring equipment!


Lmao. I thought it might give a better idea than 'a little' 'some' and 'a fair amount' haha


----------



## seanc6441

RodRevenge said:


> I wonder how "treble sensitive" is still a thing, when most of the fatigue, discomfort (sibilance and ****) lies arround the 2k-5k region which is know as upper midrange for the most part.


True but some people don't like emphasis from 8-12khz either, but that is more of a preference I guess. Some like that smoothed effect on the highs but still want clear mids with full details which you won't get if 2-5khz is dipped too much.


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> Wow, you must have some very sophisticated measuring equipment!



@seanc6441 is generously rounded it off. if he is true to his calculations, then it would be 10,543% more sub bass and 15,282% less treble and like 20,471% more smoothed out


----------



## iron2k

Just want to show you what finally arrived to my hands

*Zen Omega Edition*







*

Blur Dark Chocolate*


----------



## RodRevenge

seanc6441 said:


> True but some people don't like emphasis from 8-12khz either, but that is more of a preference I guess. Some like that smoothed effect on the highs but still want clear mids with full details which you won't get if 2-5khz is dipped too much.


That could be arguable since our ears naturally boost the 2-4k hz, much of that could be overkill but thats up to preference of course


----------



## mbwilson111

RevPizzaguy said:


> So, I wanted to ask your opinion. So far, compared to the vast collection of buds you have, how would you rate the SL 1.0+? I had my eye on a few from your collection, but curious if they would really be a step up from the SL 1.0+, or just more of the same (or worse).



That is a difficult question for me to answer. I like all my buds. Some fit me better than others. Loving the SL 1.0+ but I would have a hard time ranking what I have.  Which of my others have you been thinking about?


----------



## RevPizzaguy

mbwilson111 said:


> That is a difficult question for me to answer. I like all my buds. Some fit me better than others. Loving the SL 1.0+ but I would have a hard time ranking what I have.  Which of my others have you been thinking about?



I'd been looking at the HE 150Pro, DIY Graphene, Qian69, RY4S UE, and VE Monk Lite SPC 120 ohm. Also had thought about the Panda PK2s and GM500 (150 ohm).


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 9, 2018)

RevPizzaguy said:


> I'd been looking at the HE 150Pro, DIY Graphene, Qian69, RY4S UE, and VE Monk Lite SPC 120 ohm.



I do like the Snow Lotus 1.0+ more than any of those because I like a relaxing addictive  sound.  However the RY4S UE also sounds great in a different way...and it is not expensive.  Get it.

edit @RevPizzaguy  I should add that I do like all of those that I have.  You would probably not be disappointed in any of them.   I am sure if I go back to anyone of them I will totally enjoy my music   Most of the others in my list as well.  I have great music and some very capable sources.

BTW, my graphene is the "new" less expensive one.. not the original "old" one that got most of the praise so I can't comment on that.




RevPizzaguy said:


> Also had thought about the Panda PK2s and GM500 (150 ohm).



 I don't have those.


----------



## rkw

I asked Blox about choosing between TM9 or their new YIN earbud for classical music.


Spoiler: Response from Mr. Woo



we only use new driver for YIN, the rest(cable, jack are the same)

Yin give a better clarity and detailed while still smooth.
faster speed and more weight of impact, sound stage is similar.
so over all they are more engaging.

Both are good for classical musics if you like a laid back sound then you
can go with the TM9 but if you like more engaging and topnotch clarity
then you can go with the YIN.
over all YIN hold a better technical


I'm going to order a YIN.


----------



## waynes world

I found these. They probably came with my S7 Edge, and I just threw them in my bud-box:

 

I'm either drunk, crazy, or both, but with a bit of bass boost, they are sounding pretty good to me! And, they are pretty comfortable.

That's it - I'm selling off all of my gear!


----------



## mochill

rkw said:


> I asked Blox about choosing between TM9 or their new YIN earbud for classical music.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Response from Mr. Woo
> ...


Is you the $170 one


----------



## iron2k

waynes world said:


> I found these. They probably came with my S7 Edge, and I just threw them in my bud-box:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes they came with S6 and S7 phones, not sure about the sound but they were comfortable. My wife still uses it.


----------



## rkw

mochill said:


> Is you the $170 one


No, YIN is the same price as TM9 ($279). I heard that the $170 model is tuned for bass impact.


----------



## j4100

waynes world said:


> That's it - I'm selling off all of my gear!



Yeah, yeah, yeah.


----------



## golov17 (Nov 9, 2018)

rkw said:


> I asked Blox about choosing between TM9 or their new YIN earbud for classical music.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Response from Mr. Woo
> ...


I confirm. I used the Yin prototype for a few weeks. TM-9 is too soft to compare. TM-9 owners complains ...  This has been fixed in Yin. IMHO


----------



## cocolinho

golov17 said:


> TM-9 is too soft to compare. TM-9 owners complains ...  This has been fixed in Yin. IMHO


Yeah, that was my biggest complaint about TM9, overly smooth, no energy and nothing impressive from technical point of view.
It looks like a confession from Mr Woo himself  by releasing these Yin so quick after TM9. It would be fair if he'd offers discount for the TM9 owners because to be honnest I think these TM9 are a fail.


----------



## j4100

I'm going through my options for 11.11 and I'm pretty much not going to buy any high end buds. I seriously doubt anything on Ali is going to completely outclass the ZOE or Samsara, or a couple of others I have, so I'm aiming for the Linsoul (or the Fengru PK1), catching up with some of the thread faves, the EMXs500's, the RY4S UE, and the Snow Lotus 1.0+. I also fancy that sandalwood one I mentioned earlier this week that MB Wilson has. Still torn as whether to buy a Toneking TO200/400 or Svara-L. Hmmm.

Anything I missed?


----------



## waynes world

j4100 said:


> I'm going through my options for 11.11 and I'm pretty much not going to buy any high end buds. I seriously doubt anything on Ali is going to completely outclass the ZOE or Samsara, or a couple of others I have, so I'm aiming for the Linsoul (or the Fengru PK1), catching up with some of the thread faves, the EMXs500's, the RY4S UE, and the Snow Lotus 1.0+. I also fancy that sandalwood one I mentioned earlier this week that MB Wilson has. Still torn as whether to buy a Toneking TO200/400 or Svara-L. Hmmm.
> 
> Anything I missed?



The Fengru PK1, RY4S UE and SvaraL are the ones I'm familiar with from your list, and they are the main three I've been mainly listening to lately, so I think you're on the right track 

Personally, I'm on the fence about the Samsara, as I've heard good things, but I've heard not such good things. And they are rather pricey.

I'm still very interested in the Vunbud though.


----------



## j4100

waynes world said:


> The Fengru PK1, RY4S UE and SvaraL are the ones I'm familiar with from your list, and they are the main three I've been mainly listening to lately, so I think you're on the right track
> 
> Personally, I'm on the fence about the Samsara, as I've heard good things, but I've heard not such good things. And they are rather pricey.
> 
> I'm still very interested in the Vunbud though.



Ahh! The mysterious Vunbud. Yeah, I saw that on Rholupat, but it sold out quickly and I missed out. I would buy one if another batch appeared. I also love that VJC cable that is on some of the other buds Ahdi sells, so could be tempted one of those. I'll need to wait until 11.11 is out the way though!


----------



## mochill

He should give us TM9 owner a free yin


----------



## itomu (Nov 9, 2018)

Hello round-up.
RY4S(white cable) has arrived. It's soft cable and big plugs.Sound is I feel almost the same.maybe...Maybe? because left RY4S is broken.
Sound is not detailed or rough. But RY4S is flashy and energetic, it makes me feel fun.


----------



## mbwilson111

mochill said:


> He should give us TM9 owner a free yin



or at least let you exchange it.


----------



## Grayson73 (Nov 9, 2018)

I've been gone for a long time.  I have the original VE Monk that I bought for $5.  What's the best earbud for $10 or less with a similar sound sig?  Will use with desktop, no amp nor dac.


----------



## waynes world

Grayson73 said:


> I've been gone for a long time.  I have the original VE Monk that I bought for $5.  What's the best earbud for $10 or less with a similar sound sig?  Will use with desktop, no amp nor dac.



Best with similar signature is the VE Monk 

Many would suggest though that the best under $10 would the RY4S (UE cable).


----------



## waynes world

Totally OT, but if anyone is looking for a simple, inexpensive yet awesome desktop USB DAC, condider Massdrop's Grace Designe SDAC:
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-grace-design-standard-dac

I just got it hooked up, and listening to Radiohead's Moon Shaped Pool. Wow, I should have gotten it a long time ago.


----------



## groucho69

mochill said:


> He should give us TM9 owner a free yin



Could happen....sigh


----------



## jant71

waynes world said:


> I found these. They probably came with my S7 Edge, and I just threw them in my bud-box:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A bit smaller than I liked but those are good buds if you got the fit and some seal to get the bass they can have. Probably in between the Vido/Monk range and the Snow-lotus 1/0+/PT25. On par with the Philips SHE4205. Just needed bigger attachments, even these were too small for me...


----------



## toear

waynes world said:


> Totally OT, but if anyone is looking for a simple, inexpensive yet awesome desktop USB DAC, condider Massdrop's Grace Designe SDAC:
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-grace-design-standard-dac
> 
> I just got it hooked up, and listening to Radiohead's Moon Shaped Pool. Wow, I should have gotten it a long time ago.



Sorry to go a bit off topic... What did it end up costing you to get it over the border? I've been eyeing this but am also looking at other budget-friendly options... 

thanks!


----------



## waynes world

toear said:


> Sorry to go a bit off topic... What did it end up costing you to get it over the border? I've been eyeing this but am also looking at other budget-friendly options...
> 
> thanks!



I did get hit with $9.95 handling fees and $12.58 taxes. Sigh.


----------



## groucho69

toear said:


> Sorry to go a bit off topic... What did it end up costing you to get it over the border? I've been eyeing this but am also looking at other budget-friendly options...
> 
> thanks!



I have not had any additional charges from my Massdrop buys.


----------



## groucho69

waynes world said:


> I did get hit with $9.95 handling fees and $12.58 taxes. Sigh.



You poor person.


----------



## mbwilson111

groucho69 said:


> I have not had any additional charges from my Massdrop buys.



Here in the UK we have always had the full import charges with Massdrop buys.... £11 DHL fee plus VAT of 20% of the purchase price of the item.  It makes Massdrop not such a good deal for us.


----------



## toear

waynes world said:


> I did get hit with $9.95 handling fees and $12.58 taxes. Sigh.


Ok thanks... hmm... this or Topping D30 during 11.11 sale... pretty similar, but from what I read the D30 measures a bit better... (whatever that means... )


----------



## waynes world

groucho69 said:


> You poor person.



I know - that's $23 that can't be spent on 11.11 deals!



toear said:


> Ok thanks... hmm... this or Topping D30 during 11.11 sale... pretty similar, but from what I read the D30 measures a bit better... (whatever that means... )



Yeah, I was considering it as well. Probably couldn't go wrong with either tbh.


----------



## jogawag (Nov 10, 2018)

jogawag said:


> I finally received the earbuds of "Diy SR2 16ohms TPE-wire" in the link below.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/diy...ohms-32ohms-150ohms-TPE-wire/32801646835.html
> 
> Before, I purchased and liked "Diy SR2 PRO 16ohms Silver plated-wire" which uses the same driver, so I recommended this to everyone in this forum.
> ...



This is the continuation of the report of "Diy SR2 16ohms TPE - wire" four days ago.

I have bought the earbuds of "Diy SR2 16ohms TPE-wire" in the link below.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/diy...ohms-32ohms-150ohms-TPE-wire/32801646835.html
And now it has been burned-in to finish for 100 hours.

Finaly it has became to have the sound signature of V-Shaped which is sufficiently clear & beautiful treble and strong & deep bass, and the sound stage which is wide enough. (But of course it is narrow to compare with blox tm9 which is quite talked about now.)
I think it has the BEST V-Shaped sound among earbuds of Docomo/PK Shell under 50usd.
As earPad I recommend you double Pads as to put the DounutsPad on the VE thin Pad.

I could buy it at 12usd by negotiation to seller, I will recommend STRONGLY this earbuds as Docomo/PK Shell type earbuds for 11.11.


----------



## HungryPanda

My vido earbuds are no longer vido. I changed the cable but noticed the left channel was quieter so opend it up and broke the driver. I have changed both drivers for fengru ones and have functioning earbuds again. (just don't sound like vido's now)


----------



## rad7

I've never had earbuds & want to try some cheap buds below $15 so that I don't worry about losing them in college. I prefer a warm & bassy sound signature & don't like it if the treble gets too bright. I mainly listen to chillstep, liquid dnb & other similar electronic music. I'm also looking for an earbud with inline mic & preferably an L-shaped connector. So far, I've shortlisted the Vido MX500 & EMX500. Any other suggestions?


----------



## jogawag (Nov 10, 2018)

rad7 said:


> I've never had earbuds & want to try some cheap buds below $15 so that I don't worry about losing them in college. I prefer a warm & bassy sound signature & don't like it if the treble gets too bright. I mainly listen to chillstep, liquid dnb & other similar electronic music. I'm also looking for an earbud with inline mic & preferably an L-shaped connector. So far, I've shortlisted the Vido MX500 & EMX500. Any other suggestions?



RY4S original in-ear Earphone with mic has the treble which is not too bright and the bass which is punchy.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32797581820.html

Vido and EMX500 has the V-Shaped signature(so treble is bright).


----------



## snip3r77

waynes world said:


> Totally OT, but if anyone is looking for a simple, inexpensive yet awesome desktop USB DAC, condider Massdrop's Grace Designe SDAC:
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-grace-design-standard-dac
> 
> I just got it hooked up, and listening to Radiohead's Moon Shaped Pool. Wow, I should have gotten it a long time ago.



I have the sdac+o2 combo. it's the best thing since sliced bread


----------



## BlackSpaceCat

I bought RY4S a year and a half ago. I see that now on head-fi there is a big interest in these headphones in the UE version. Did it change only the cable or the driver too? Can anyone compare the old version with a regular cable versus and a new one with a UE cable, are they very different?


----------



## jogawag (Nov 10, 2018)

BlackSpaceCat said:


> I bought RY4S a year and a half ago. I see that now on head-fi there is a big interest in these headphones in the UE version. Did it change only the cable or the driver too? Can anyone compare the old version with a regular cable versus and a new one with a UE cable, are they very different?


A new one with a UE cable has V-shaped signature and sounds more clear treble than a old version with a regular cable, .
But a old version with a regular cable has more punchy bass.


----------



## BlackSpaceCat

Sound RY4S UE vs Silver HI? I like the look of silver ...


----------



## jogawag (Nov 10, 2018)

BlackSpaceCat said:


> Sound RY4S UE vs Silver HI? I like the look of silver ...


I do not have Silver HI cable version of RY4S.
However, with the Silver HI cable, I think that the total sound of the Silver HI cable will be more closer to the treble than the UE cable, due to the general properties of the silver plated cable.
(It seems nobody answers yet so I tried to answer instead ...)


----------



## BlackSpaceCat

jogawag said:


> I do not have Silver HI cable version of RY4S.
> However, with the Silver HI cable, I think that the total sound of the UE cable will be more closer to the treble, due to the general properties of the silver plated cable.
> (It seems nobody answers yet so I tried to answer instead ...)


I love high frequencies, but I don’t want to lose bass at all. I remember on head-fi someone ordered a Silver Hi, maybe he will answer.


----------



## jogawag

BlackSpaceCat said:


> I love high frequencies, but I don’t want to lose bass at all. I remember on head-fi someone ordered a Silver Hi, maybe he will answer.


You can get a list of search results for members who speak on it and search its contents by entering "RY4S HI" in the input area of "Search this thread" at the top of the screen.


----------



## itomu

BlackSpaceCat said:


> I love high frequencies, but I don’t want to lose bass at all. I remember on head-fi someone ordered a Silver Hi, maybe he will answer.



I don't have normal RY4S.White (silver) cable and blue cable is I feel almost the same.
Sound is V type,not detailed or rough but  energetic.It makes me feel fun.I used blue cable of RY4S for a walk.

photo is...
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2493#post-14588158


----------



## ShabtabQ

Is there any difference between Snow Lotus 1.0 and 1.0 Plus I have been thinking of getting the RY4S UE and snow Lotus, but the plus is not available on AE.


----------



## toear

snip3r77 said:


> I have the sdac+o2 combo. it's the best thing since sliced bread


No line through though?... I want something I can use for my higher impedance earphones and be able to hook it up to my amp as well.........


----------



## snip3r77 (Nov 10, 2018)

toear said:


> No line through though?... I want something I can use for my higher impedance earphones and be able to hook it up to my amp as well.........



you can line out, there are 2  RCA


----------



## snip3r77 (Nov 10, 2018)

Nothing on sale huh???
https://veclan.aliexpress.com/store...=n&SortType=bestmatch_sort&tagResultChecked=y


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 10, 2018)

ShabtabQ said:


> Is there any difference between Snow Lotus 1.0 and 1.0 Plus I have been thinking of getting the RY4S UE and snow Lotus, but the plus is not available on AE.



I only have the 1.0+ but it is my understanding that it is different from the 1.0.   I love my 1.0+ which I did find on AE three weeks ago when there was talk of it in here.  If you look at the bottom of this page you will see how many members (users) are viewing this thread at any given time.  There are also usually as many or more guests (lurkers) viewing.  I bet many of them also buy what is recommended in here.  If the 1.0+  is becoming popular I would hope that the stores will order more.

Edit  @ShabtabQ  I found one listing that has the 1.0+ in silver.. I hope you can get one.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...Music-Earphones-HIFI-Earbuds/32804583069.html


----------



## mbwilson111

snip3r77 said:


> Nothing on sale huh???
> https://veclan.aliexpress.com/store...=n&SortType=bestmatch_sort&tagResultChecked=y



To keep up with what is going on with VE you really need to join their Facebook Group.  Products come and go and sometimes come back ...and sometimes not.


----------



## snip3r77

mbwilson111 said:


> To keep up with what is going on with VE you really need to join their Facebook Group.  Products come and go and sometimes come back ...and sometimes not.



the boss is cranky, 11.11 everyone has sales inclusive big names like Huawei, Xiaomi and he doesn't participate. that shows something


----------



## mbwilson111

snip3r77 said:


> the boss is cranky, 11.11 everyone has sales inclusive big names like Huawei, Xiaomi and he doesn't participate. that shows something



There is no rule that everyone has to participate... sometimes there are awesome deals at other times.  I have no problems with him.  

I get cranky too... lol.  Sometimes in these threads... I try to hide it


----------



## CasstardPie

snip3r77 said:


> the boss is cranky, 11.11 everyone has sales inclusive big names like Huawei, Xiaomi and he doesn't participate. that shows something



Schiit doesn't do Black Friday either, so are they cranky then?


----------



## RodRevenge

I ordered the fengru pk1 150 ohms hoping this do sound like the linsoul, wondering if i should order the DQSM Panda too...


----------



## Zerohour88

11.11 already started, now trying hard to find a better deal than the EBX at $70, lol.


----------



## rad7 (Nov 10, 2018)

jogawag said:


> RY4S original in-ear Earphone with mic has the treble which is not too bright and the bass which is punchy.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32797581820.html
> 
> Vido and EMX500 has the V-Shaped signature(so treble is bright).



Thank you! Looks like these earbuds are perfect for my needs.


----------



## mbwilson111

For 11:11 I am getting a couple of cases, a balanced cable for my PT15 and these ZX1 earbuds.  According to someone on the EA facebook groupl they are meant to be mid centric with a wide soundstage.  According to an old review it has NO bass  No mention of whether or not foams were used or how the fit was but somehow I think I will find some bass I like the Y splitter!


https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1w8DgcGagSKJjy0Faq6z0dpXaz/AK-2017-****-ZX1-In-Ear-Earbuds-HIFI-Flat-Head-Plug-Headset-Noise-Canceling-Earbuds-With.jpg


----------



## Themilkman46290

Wanna thank you guys and ladies that helped influence my 11.11 choices got the ti hi-z hp320, toneking to400s, seahf f400s,k's samsara and ti hi-z hp150ts(red&blues) plus a pair of tin audio t2 I believe me and the wife should be happy with our little collection


----------



## snip3r77

mbwilson111 said:


> There is no rule that everyone has to participate... sometimes there are awesome deals at other times.  I have no problems with him.
> 
> I get cranky too... lol.  Sometimes in these threads... I try to hide it


Of course there’s no rule on this and he is going against the grain. I will vote with my wallet . 



CasstardPie said:


> Schiit doesn't do Black Friday either, so are they cranky then?



Schitt model is “different” and they claim they provide the best price. I don’t buy it and I didn’t have any of their products since Amir exposed most of their questionable products based on objective measurement


----------



## Danneq

CasstardPie said:


> Schiit doesn't do Black Friday either, so are they cranky then?



No Schiit!?!?!


----------



## HungryPanda

Themilkman46290 said:


> Wanna thank you guys and ladies that helped influence my 11.11 choices got the ti hi-z hp320, toneking to400s, seahf f400s,k's samsara and ti hi-z hp150ts(red&blues) plus a pair of tin audio t2 I believe me and the wife should be happy with our little collection


That is a nice haul


----------



## Silverstorm Nuce

Are there any differences between Slow Lotus 1.0+ and 2.0 in sound quality? I'm gonna buy one of these two so please help me! Thanks


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 10, 2018)

jogawag said:


> RY4S original in-ear Earphone with mic has the treble which is not too bright and the bass which is punchy.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32797581820.html
> 
> Vido and EMX500 has the V-Shaped signature(so treble is bright).


Sorry Jogawag but I don't agree with this. RY4s UE is significantly brighter than Vido. To my ears. Emx500 is bright too, but less agressive than ry4s.

@rad7  To me Vido is L shaped and Ry4s is more V shaped.

Willsound Mk2 also has some L shaped sound but is a bit more neutral with full bass. Vido is warmer slightly in the mids with neutral treble and full bass. It's my rec for bassy warm earbud but not muddy or too dull.

Edit:my bad you are talking about ry4s not UE version? Might be less bright sorry! I jumped the gun on that comment 

I still don't consider the Vido V shaped though, it's quite neutral after the warm low end. I've never felt fatigue from vido treble but it has enough presence to sound balanced. It's a little like the shozy bk but less peaked so it's not as sharp.


----------



## Father Schu

FYI, the K's Samsara are around $108 for the 11.11 but when I checked the history, they were $96 last year and about that price in April 2018.

For those that have these, can they be considered fairly neutral/detailed all-arounders that can compare to some TOTL buds?


----------



## subwoof3r (Nov 10, 2018)

Hey everybody,

Remember the previous  fukubukuro sales from NiceHCK ? (which was an EB2)
Here it is again !

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...fukubukuro-lucky-bag/1825606_32953684155.html







Personally, I will jump the hype train this time, hehe
Note that there is are both mic and NO mic versions.
Can’t wait to know whats on it


----------



## jogawag (Nov 10, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Sorry Jogawag but I don't agree with this. RY4s UE is significantly brighter than Vido. To my ears. Emx500 is bright too, but less agressive than ry4s.
> 
> @rad7  To me Vido is L shaped and Ry4s is more V shaped.
> 
> ...



I do not want to talk about Willsound Mk2 nor Shozy BK here.

Of course I was talking about *ry4s not UE version*!
And Of course I own EMX500, *Vido*, *original ry4s* and ry4s UE. It seems that my bad you and I have different opinions on V shaped Vido.

My opinion on V shaped Vido may be different from my bad yours  because my Vido is with mic and wearing a VE thin pad.


----------



## daid1

subwoof3r said:


> Hey everybody,
> 
> Remember the previous  fukubukuro sales from NiceHCK ? (which was an EB2)
> Here it is again !
> ...



LINK PLEASE


----------



## subwoof3r

daid1 said:


> LINK PLEASE


Oops, sorry, forgot to post that hehe, here it is : 
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...fukubukuro-lucky-bag/1825606_32953684155.html


----------



## subwoof3r

Call me crazy! just bought *Blox YIN* !! 

Can't wait to receive them! and make a blind comparison between my sold TM9 and this new YIN !


----------



## mbwilson111

subwoof3r said:


> Hey everybody,
> 
> Remember the previous  fukubukuro sales from NiceHCK ? (which was an EB2)
> Here it is again !
> ...



I need that!  No mic... but silver or black... hmmmm ... not sure...


----------



## subwoof3r

mbwilson111 said:


> I need that!  No mic... but silver or black... hmmmm ... not sure...


I was hesitating for a minute, but I did go for the silver no mic version


----------



## Willber

ShabtabQ said:


> Is there any difference between Snow Lotus 1.0 and 1.0 Plus I have been thinking of getting the RY4S UE and snow Lotus, but the plus is not available on AE.


The SL 1.0 is poor IMO, woolly and muddy. I don't have the 1.0+ (yet ).


----------



## toear

snip3r77 said:


> you can line out, there are 2  RCA



ooooooohhh......?!!!  

thank you (i think) for the clarification...


----------



## Matarro

Is that new fukubukuro an earbud or IEM? Says "in ear" so I guess IEM. 

By the way, does anyone know if E-earphone (or other stores in Tokyo) carry **** PT25, Svara-L or EBX?


----------



## drawun

Think I'll pull the trigger on ry4s. Before that, if it's not too much to ask:
- Do colour options give different sound/different version? Fancy red ones myself. iirc read somewhere it is the case with qian25(blue the superior).
- What does UE stands for(bit new in this sorry)?


----------



## subwoof3r

Matarro said:


> Is that new fukubukuro an earbud or IEM? Says "in ear" so I guess IEM.
> 
> By the way, does anyone know if E-earphone (or other stores in Tokyo) carry **** PT25, Svara-L or EBX?


According to Jim (from NiceHCK), it will be an IEM.
Maybe I shouldn't post the info here then, but I wasn't sure if it will be like a PT25 (sort of semi IEM/earbud).


----------



## Matarro

If you didn't post it here I would probably have missed it. Not looking for an IEM but at that price I'm still tempted.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 10, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> According to Jim (from NiceHCK), it will be an IEM.
> Maybe I shouldn't post the info here then, but I wasn't sure if it will be like a PT25 (sort of semi IEM/earbud).



I have not seen it posted anywhere else yet so I might have missed it. I will be getting the silver.

I am guessing it will be small and have a single dynamic driver like the models mentioned in the promo sheet.


----------



## seanc6441

jogawag said:


> I do not want to talk about Willsound Mk2 nor Shozy BK here.
> 
> Of course I was talking about *ry4s not UE version*!
> And Of course I own EMX500, *Vido*, *original ry4s* and ry4s UE. It seems that my bad you and I have different opinions on V shaped Vido.
> ...


All good we all have different ears 

 I like thin foams on my vido too, original monk foams on the vido sound nice. Very balanced sound.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Folks,

In my small collection, I have the following ones:

ZOE, Zen LL, EBX, TO400s, RY4S, FENGRU DIY EMX500S, TY Hi-Z HP-150s, SHE3800, Quan39, Quan69, Vido, Snow-lotus 2.0

Am I missing something that are a must for this 11.11?


----------



## FastAndClean

Marcos Fontana said:


> Folks,
> 
> In my small collection, I have the following ones:
> 
> ...


how is the sound of the RY4S, i purchased two pairs


----------



## Marcos Fontana

FastAndClean said:


> how is the sound of the RY4S, i purchased two pairs



I don't know. The parcel is in transit


----------



## itomu (Nov 10, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> Hey everybody,
> 
> Remember the previous  fukubukuro sales from NiceHCK ? (which was an EB2)
> Here it is again !
> ...



Thanks news.But I don't think it's earbuds.


----------



## DBaldock9

Marcos Fontana said:


> Folks,
> 
> In my small collection, I have the following ones:
> 
> ...



Don't know if you'll find them on-sale, but I'd suggest trying the Svara-L (32Ω) earbuds, for ~$50 - $55.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

DBaldock9 said:


> Don't know if you'll find them on-sale, but I'd suggest trying the Svara-L (32Ω) earbuds, for ~$50 - $55.



Thank you very much! I will check it.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Marcos Fontana said:


> Thank you very much! I will check it.


Checked, 25% off:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...lgo_pvid=e320fd12-10b7-40fb-b96d-ad3da97cd696

Went to the basket!

Ty again!


----------



## mochill

I want both the new blox earbuds  , also moondrop released a flagship iem called amedaus with a 13.5mm Graphene driver:O


----------



## waynes world

Marcos Fontana said:


> Checked, 25% off:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...lgo_pvid=e320fd12-10b7-40fb-b96d-ad3da97cd696
> 
> ...



Congrats in advance! They are great .


----------



## jogawag

Marcos Fontana said:


> Folks,
> 
> In my small collection, I have the following ones:
> 
> ...


Why do not you buy YINCROW RW-9?  (about $16 - $18)


----------



## jogawag

seanc6441 said:


> All good we all have different ears
> 
> I like thin foams on my vido too, original monk foams on the vido sound nice. Very balanced sound.



Have you read that @rad7 said below?
"I've never had earbuds & want to try some cheap buds below $15 so that I don't worry about losing them in college. I prefer a warm & bassy sound signature & don't like it if the treble gets too bright. I mainly listen to chillstep, liquid dnb & other similar electronic music. I'm also looking for an earbud with inline mic & preferably an L-shaped connector. So far, I've shortlisted the Vido MX500 & EMX500. Any other suggestions?"

-Have you actually listened to RY4S(Not UE) and Vido and compare it? Clearly Vido has a brighter treble than RY4S.
-And RY4S with mic has an L-shaped connector, but does Vido with mic have an L-shaped connector?

In consideration of the above, I replied, but can you make a better suggestions?


----------



## Qualcheduno

Ordered the Svara-L and the Fukubukuro for ~47€. Now we wait.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

jogawag said:


> Why do not you buy YINCROW RW-9?  (about $16 - $18)


Because I didn't find any review of it. I will get one. Maybe I could write my first review .

Did anybody hear that TY Hi-Z HP-150s 150MKII are better than the 650? I received the 150s and it's amazing. Comparing directly to Zen 2, the mids are much more forward and the vocals are amazing. Zen 2 imo are more veiled and 150 are much more fun. I can't take it out my ears... For me, it is a step up. If 650 are better, I really need to buy them.


----------



## seanc6441

jogawag said:


> Have you read that @rad7 said below?
> "I've never had earbuds & want to try some cheap buds below $15 so that I don't worry about losing them in college. I prefer a warm & bassy sound signature & don't like it if the treble gets too bright. I mainly listen to chillstep, liquid dnb & other similar electronic music. I'm also looking for an earbud with inline mic & preferably an L-shaped connector. So far, I've shortlisted the Vido MX500 & EMX500. Any other suggestions?"
> 
> -Have you actually listened to RY4S(Not UE) and Vido and compare it? Clearly Vido has a brighter treble than RY4S.
> ...


I put a correction note on my original post at the bottom saying I thought you meant UE version (UE RY4s is much brighter than the Vido to my ears).

Also I didn't see his budget sorry. But Vido is a good option for anyone at ~$3 so I still recommend vido with full foam.

Another option is DSQM Pk2 Panda with full foam. It's very smooth and warm. Bass is punchy but not as extended in sub bass as Vido. It's really smooth though, good vocal earbud.


----------



## chinmie

mochill said:


> I want both the new blox earbuds  , also moondrop released a flagship iem called amedaus with a 13.5mm Graphene driver:O



i don't like it whenever moondrop make a new earphone... I'm afraid that my wallet would get thinner


----------



## jogawag (Nov 10, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> I put a correction note on my original post at the bottom saying I thought you meant UE version (UE RY4s is much brighter than the Vido to my ears).
> 
> Also I didn't see his budget sorry. But Vido is a good option for anyone at ~$3 so I still recommend vido with full foam.
> 
> Another option is DSQM Pk2 Panda with full foam. It's very smooth and warm. Bass is punchy but not as extended in sub bass as Vido. It's really smooth though, good vocal earbud.



I actually listened to RY4S(Not UE) and Vido both with full foam and compare.

Your proposals(Vido, DSQM Pk2 Panda) lack some or all of the condition of "mic & L Shaped connector & bassy".
Also, RY4S with mic is ~$ 5, only slightly different.

So I still recommend RY4S with full foam.


----------



## jogawag

Marcos Fontana said:


> Because I didn't find any review of it. I will get one. Maybe I could write my first review .


This is a quick review of Yincrow RW-9 by ClieOS.
https://www.head-fi.org/posts/14261807/


----------



## Marcos Fontana

jogawag said:


> This is a quick review of Yincrow RW-9 by ClieOS.
> https://www.head-fi.org/posts/14261807/


Ty, btw, I already saw that review. As I said, I got one. I will put my impressions here when I get it.


----------



## iron2k

Marcos Fontana said:


> Because I didn't find any review of it. I will get one. Maybe I could write my first review .
> 
> Did anybody hear that TY Hi-Z HP-150s 150MKII are better than the 650? I received the 150s and it's amazing. Comparing directly to Zen 2, the mids are much more forward and the vocals are amazing. Zen 2 imo are more veiled and 150 are much more fun. I can't take it out my ears... For me, it is a step up. If 650 are better, I really need to buy them.


Great, I have it in my cart... this is what I needed to read.

Thanks.


----------



## tvou88

Hi hfiers! For some time I have few earbuds I can compare to my ears. Beware, English is not my first language . I'm music engineer (mastering), producer etc... Certified. Mainly came from full sized monitor headphones and few in-ears. Back to buds.
First shot I give to Faaeal Iris 1.0. Impressed with their sound for 4 bucks, but there is roll-off in bass freq, and lack of micro details in highs. Small bump in 3-4khz. Owerall nice sounding buds.
Second came Vidos. With their J shaped cable they sound veiled in comparison to Iris, but that mids are much better and bass is badass (for buds). I give a try with recabling them with full copper braided cable, KZ one... Uhhh, they sound goood! Bass is much tighter, mids are better too (clearer) and micro details came in big way. 
Then RY4S came.. red one with white cable. They sound crisp, there is nice level of details, with good tight bass, there is no roll-off here. Problem is with the mids. There is a dip in lower mid frequency, and because of that they sound aggressive in highs, but they aren't. Overall nice sound with space and separation. Must try recabling them..
Fengru EMXS500. Jeeeee. NOT!
Spike in high mids/lower treble is so awful that I cannot listen them. Period. Thin, thick, donuts.. Nothing helps.
Snow-Lotus 1.0+ are next one.. love on first listening! Obviously they put much superior driver in there, because shell is the same... D sound!!!! What level of details, but not only in highs, mids are energic and full, stage is wide, separation wow. Bass is defined, tight and deep. SL10+ are loudest of bunch.
Now waiting for Rosemary 150ohm...

I'm glad if this was helpful to you!


----------



## ShabtabQ

So I ordered RY4S UE and Vido already, almost empty wallet tho I can get EB2, will it be worth a deal at $25, or should I skip.


----------



## j4100

waynes world said:


> Congrats in advance! They are great .



I went for the Svara L as well. I having thinking about buying them since David and youself posted about them some time ago. Really looking forward to hearing them.


----------



## jant71

mochill said:


> I want both the new blox earbuds  , also moondrop released a flagship iem called amedaus with a 13.5mm Graphene driver:O



Yeah but not sure I like the look of the Amadeus though...


----------



## RobinFood

So I was asked to go try the new Audio Technica ATH-CM2000Ti a while ago and finally got around to go to the store and try it out for a few minutes.

Here are my thoughts on it.

For the fit, they were not that great. They were slightly bigger than the traditional buds, and kind of had that floating feeling in the ears. They were secure and didn't fall out, but they just didn't feel very secure or comfortable. It might be better with foams though, since the metal did feel quite cold and rigid as well.

The first thing that struck me when I put them on was that the soundstage was really deep. The music seemed to be coming from far away. I was expecting the mids to suffer a little because of this, but they came in crystal clear, and the highs were well extended and didn't sound sibilant or muted in any way. The bass didn't really have any impact though. The display version didn't have foams, so with foams it might be decent, but there was really almost no bass impact to speak of, and they didn't have any discerning "Wow!" factor at first, like I had with the Willsound MK2.

I started by listening to Blink-182's "All the small things" and was not really impressed by the rendition. I think that the bass and lower mids were not the best part, and my ears were still adjusting to the sound.
I moved on and listened to Panic at the Disco's "High Hopes" and enjoyed the trumpets, and started noticing just how clear the mids were even though they seemed so far away.

I noticed that the upper mids and treble was particularly nice, so I played a few songs by Adele, both studio and live, and really enjoyed the texture of her voice. The imaging and layering was very nice, and the live renditions sounded really realistic with the deep soundstage.

I wanted to see the width of the soundstage with "How Far I'll go" from Moana, and it was very detailed and satisfying, but the store was a little noisy to get just how good it was.

I decided to test the soundstage a little more by listening to Kanye West's "Black Skinhead", and can honestly say this was where I was completely blown away. The layering and imaging is stronger than most earbuds, and with that extremely deep and reasonably wide soundstage, it was possible to differentiate all the instruments and the layered screams in the song in a way that is very rare with other gear I have.

After that, I put them back, looked at the price again, and decided to try other earbuds they had on display. That is when I realized that the ATH-CM2000Tis are really good, because they made me instantly notice just how flawed some of them were. The cymbals felt muted as the highs were not fully extended, and the music overall just sounded too close. The imaging of the other earbuds was no where near as good, and they feel less realistic.

I really enjoyed them, but not enough to drop 500$ on. If they were 300$, I would definitely feel that they were worth it, and would be tempted to pick up a pair just for that super deep soundstage and those crystal clear mids and highs. I am usre they sound even better in a quiet environment!

Feel free to ask any questions and I will try to recall it. I will probably be looking at them for price drops in the future. Not perfect, but a very nice experience, especially for complex music with a lot of different sources. Maybe not for simple music or bass intensive music...


----------



## Willber (Nov 11, 2018)

Hi all,
Last month I bought the Snow Lotus 1.0 by mistake and am now thinking of getting the proper 1.0+. For comparison my current favourite buds are:

EMX500S
RY4S UE
Sony E808+
MEMT T5

I also have on order:

NICEHCK EB2
DIY EMX500 PK2

As I use EQ, I am less concerned with signature and more interested in things like soundstage, clarity and separation. So, will the SL 1.0+ offer anything that those above (or the others in my signature) don't deliver?


----------



## Matarro

I ordered the fukubukuro, **** PT25 and Seahf AWK-F150C. Haven't heard much about the F150C (it always seem to be the 32 or 400ohm people talk about) but someone said they're good for aggressive or busy music so that seems like something I'd enjoy.


----------



## mbwilson111

Matarro said:


> I ordered the fukubukuro, **** PT25 and Seahf AWK-F150C. Haven't heard much about the F150C (it always seem to be the 32 or 400ohm people talk about) but someone said they're good for aggressive or busy music so that seems like something I'd enjoy.



I have the Seahf AWK-F150C.  Excellent bud, great bass.  It used to get recommended a lot but now there is so much more available.  Some very good choices get overlooked.  I like 150 ohm buds as they play well with my better daps.  

The only bud I have ordered during 11:11 is that ZX1 with the wooden splitter.  I also ordered a balanced cable for the PT15 as two of my daps have balanced output.  I don't have many buds with removable cables but my Zen LL came fitted with a balanced cable.   Also gettting the fukubukro (IEM) and a few iem tips. Plus I was able to get early deals on a couple of iems so one has already arrived and the other arrives tomorrow (or Tues).


----------



## Matarro

Speaking of cables, I noticed that the RY Earphone store sells a custom cable. I'm thinking of ordering a short, balanced mmcx cable from them since I want one to use with my ES100.

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32951...ubject=-&spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.1db22e0ebQOE6O


----------



## theresanarc

Damn my Edifier H180 order from late September has been stuck on the same mail status (departed Malaysia) for over a month. Think I'm gonna just order Monk Lites instead but I feel like a chump cos there's no 11.11 sale on them lol just regular price.


----------



## chaiyuta (Nov 11, 2018)

@RobinFood : Many Thanks, Mr. RobinFood. May I know which DAP did you use to play with and what plug type did you use? By the way, I saw many Twitter users, e.g. mIT_TAn, おににに, etc. complain about its lack of bass and peaky sibiliant. Perhaps it is all about matching and each own individual ear ergonomics shape. However, I do share your opinion. If I could get it as second-hand price from e-earphone about 250-300USD, I might buy it.

Is it possible to try CM2000Ti with 4.4 mm cable and DX200, SONY NW-WM1Z, LPG Touch, Cayin N8 or Cowon PLENUE L and share me further impression?


----------



## oopeteroo

hi
been ages since i read this thread 
im looking for an earbud for under 50 usd any recommendations ?
whats good for vocal/mids nowdays? best for the buck earbud ? 

i listen to asian pop,, anime music, ballad and vocal music.
will use it with my sansa clip+ but i think i would buy shanling m0 or ap80 soon.

a quick read seems like ry4s and faaeal datura x seems popular ? 
how are they for my needs? which one is better ? or do u guys recommend something else ? 

anything that have hifiman he-500 mids/vocal out there ?


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Folks,

Any sugestions of cable from Aliexpress to replace the Vido cables?


----------



## jant71

BadReligionPunk said:


> Ok so I got the Audio Technica ATH-C200iS. Putting them thru their paces but had a quick question to some of you guys that have a lot more experience then me with Earbuds. Looking at the picture, would you consider these earbuds or earpods? Or maybe earpuds?



So, @BadReligionPunk , time for our update on the C200iS  How are you finding them??


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Nov 11, 2018)

jant71 said:


> So, @BadReligionPunk , time for our update on the C200iS  How are you finding them??


You know what. They are not the best, and they are not the worst. I like them. Its straight up Audio Technica house sound at $19.

They are built pretty nice. Cord is thin rubber though and kind of scares me. I run the cable up thru my jacket or hoodie as to keep snags down. Sound sig is crisp and geared towards vocals. Female and male vocals sound really friggen good to me. Sub bass is present but rolled off. A bit more subbass then monk+ but only by a smidge. Mid bass is boosted and has good impact. Bass quality is fast and tight. Mids and treble are typical AT. Clean and bright. Everything is pretty balanced. Great for Pop, Jpop, Kpop, Vocal Trance/EDM. I have also enjoyed old timey country and western and bluegrass on these.

For the first few days I felt that instrument separation and stage were very cramped and cluttered. It got a bit distracting at times. Placement was weird and things that were panned far left and far right, were pretty much sitting on my shoulders behind everything else. After a week of use, I noticed things starting to widen up a small bit. Its still very small, the smallest I have heard on an earbud, but its not bad enough to keep me from using these. I also don't know if my brain just figured out where to put things or if the buds actually burned in a bit.

Still have not played around with foams. maybe this week I will stick some donuts and VE thins on em and see how that plays out.


----------



## paulindss

Hey guys, sorry, but i will ask _that kind of question
_
I have e]a EMX 500 that after i grabbed a desktop amp, i found out that earbuds can indeed sound similar to a full size earphones and the interest on earbuds came back

So i am looking for a budget high impedance option to be a upgrade for my emx500. So my questions are, ty-hi 150 ohm, or penon he-150 would be a upgrade from emx500 indeed ?


----------



## rkw

RobinFood said:


> So I was asked to go try the new Audio Technica ATH-CM2000Ti a while ago and finally got around to go to the store and try it out for a few minutes.
> ...
> They were secure and didn't fall out, but they just didn't feel very secure or comfortable. It might be better with foams though, since the metal did feel quite cold and rigid as well.
> ...
> The bass didn't really have any impact though. The display version didn't have foams, so with foams it might be decent, but there was really almost no bass impact to speak of


Thanks for your impressions. It's unfortunate that you didn't have a chance to try with foams. If anybody else has an opportunity to try the CM2000Ti, please bring foams with you! It seems promising except for the bass, which might be corrected with foams.

I always need foams for every earbud I use, both for secure fit and forming a seal for bass. The CM2000Ti specs say that it comes with "earpads", and they will probably perform best with them.


----------



## HungryPanda

The Linsoul BLD 150 or Ty Hi-z 150 would be my rec


----------



## tayo15

Trying to get in on this 11/11 sale. My current earbud is the BS1 Experience Ver. Anyone got any recomendations to something similar or better for around the same price? It has currently the best sound ive heard on an earbud for thr past year.


----------



## iron2k

Hi,
has anyone compared Willsound MK2 VJC cable vs MK3???


----------



## Willber (Nov 12, 2018)

_Duplicate post deleted._


----------



## chinmie

iron2k said:


> Hi,
> has anyone compared Willsound MK2 VJC cable vs MK3???



MK2, no matter what cable will always sounds slightly V shaped compared to the balanced and more mid forward MK3

standard cables will sound clearer, while the 8 braided cable would sound thicker/fuller, not necessarily better, just different flavors. haven't tried VJC on the willsound, but i once tried them on my iems (with mmcx), and generally they would make the sound warmer/smoother on the treble.


----------



## tayo15

Again anyone have any recomendations? My current favorite pair of earbuds are the penon bs1 experience ver. Any of the current earbuds beat it out? 
Ry4s
EB2
EMX 500
Th Hi z 150
**** pt25


----------



## Marcos Fontana

tayo15 said:


> Again anyone have any recomendations? My current favorite pair of earbuds are the penon bs1 experience ver. Any of the current earbuds beat it out?
> Ry4s
> EB2
> EMX 500
> ...


I don't know the penon, but TY Hi-Z HP-150s 150MKII is amazing! I preffer it over the EBX.


----------



## waynes world

paulindss said:


> Hey guys, sorry, but i will ask _that kind of question
> _
> I have e]a EMX 500 that after i grabbed a desktop amp, i found out that earbuds can indeed sound similar to a full size earphones and the interest on earbuds came back
> 
> So i am looking for a budget high impedance option to be a upgrade for my emx500. So my questions are, ty-hi 150 ohm, or penon he-150 would be a upgrade from emx500 indeed ?





HungryPanda said:


> The Linsoul BLD 150 or Ty Hi-z 150 would be my rec



I'm with Hungy regarding the Linsoul 150... but in the form of the Fengru DIY PK1 2.5mm 150ohm which I choose to believe are exactly the same buds for less money. And even if I'm wrong, they're great!


----------



## RobinFood

chaiyuta said:


> @RobinFood : Many Thanks, Mr. RobinFood. May I know which DAP did you use to play with and what plug type did you use? By the way, I saw many Twitter users, e.g. mIT_TAn, おににに, etc. complain about its lack of bass and peaky sibiliant. Perhaps it is all about matching and each own individual ear ergonomics shape. However, I do share your opinion. If I could get it as second-hand price from e-earphone about 250-300USD, I might buy it.
> 
> Is it possible to try CM2000Ti with 4.4 mm cable and DX200, SONY NW-WM1Z, LPG Touch, Cayin N8 or Cowon PLENUE L and share me further impression?



I was listening to them with the Shanling m0, which is somewhat bright. I use the slowest filter on it to bring out the bass a little more.
They didn't have any balanced version to try, but even if they did, I don't have any other sources other than my budget phone, which sounds like....a cheap phone?

Yes, the bass sound was there, but it had no impact, which was too bad, especially for sounds like pianos where you get a nice satisfying thump usually. I didn't notice any sibilance, but I am not overly sensitive to it. I just noticed that the treble was well extended and made it sound very natural. I hate it when it sounds like someone has their hands on the cymbals and they just don't ring well.

I think the nice texture on Adele's voice might be considered grainy by some, but I liked it. Overall, I felt it was one of those earbuds where you could close your eyes and feel like you were there, which is something very rare.


----------



## RobinFood

rkw said:


> Thanks for your impressions. It's unfortunate that you didn't have a chance to try with foams. If anybody else has an opportunity to try the CM2000Ti, please bring foams with you! It seems promising except for the bass, which might be corrected with foams.
> 
> I always need foams for every earbud I use, both for secure fit and forming a seal for bass. The CM2000Ti specs say that it comes with "earpads", and they will probably perform best with them.



Yes, I probably should have put on the thin foams I had on, I just worried about looking sketchy, and I might have stretched them too much for my other buds after. The shell size was quite big. That said, I am not sure they would have helped with the bass very much, it just seemed like there was no impact...so almost no sub-bass...to boost. Maybe it would have thickened the mids a little, but I liked how crystal clear the mids sounded, I am not sure I would have liked foams with them. I might go back and try them out in a few weeks, and will try to bring a spare set of foams.


----------



## Raketen (Nov 11, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> Is it possible to try CM2000Ti with 4.4 mm cable and DX200, SONY NW-WM1Z, LPG Touch, Cayin N8 or* Cowon PLENUE L* and share me further impression?


There's another Plenue already?!??!?!?!  are Cowon trying to create a Guiness World Record for most DAPs released in a year or something?


----------



## Zerohour88

Marcos Fontana said:


> I don't know the penon, but TY Hi-Z HP-150s 150MKII is amazing! I preffer it over the EBX.



links to the MKII?

prefer as in the particular sound sig? or just sound qualities? 

totally not salty as I've just ordered the EBX


----------



## stimuz

anything better than svara for bass?


----------



## chaiyuta

Raketen said:


> There's another Plenue already?!??!?!?!  are Cowon trying to create a Guiness World Record for most DAPs released in a year or something?


It is a new flagship from COWON PLENUE, it comes with 4.4 mm LO/HO and utilize ESS9038Pro. Plenue L already revealed in PortaFes (or HeadphoneFes?) in Japan last month.


----------



## chaiyuta

For those who are going to Bangkok, Thailand on 24 Nov 2018. Thai Earbud Fanclub Meeting No.1 will be held at Lantana Resort (near MRT Sutthisan Station) 13:00-18:00. Feel free to take audition~.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Zerohour88 said:


> links to the MKII?
> 
> prefer as in the particular sound sig? or just sound qualities?
> 
> totally not salty as I've just ordered the EBX


I got this one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TY-...358.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dxGMTgk

Bass, details, everything!


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Marcos Fontana said:


> I got this one:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TY-...358.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dxGMTgk
> 
> Bass, details, everything!


I forgot to mention this:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=444713325900764&set=a.393558967682867&type=3&theater


----------



## Matarro

Marcos Fontana said:


> I got this one:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TY-...358.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dxGMTgk
> 
> Bass, details, everything!



That looks very nice, and you can get it with 2.5mm balanced! Which connector do you have?


----------



## Zerohour88

Marcos Fontana said:


> I got this one:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TY-...358.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dxGMTgk
> 
> Bass, details, everything!



nice, and I think I can get it from a local dealer too, so no need to rush for that 11.11 sale.

Though not putting any differentiating mark on the buds itself to tell the MKII apart is a bit confusing.


----------



## HeadlessChicken

11.11 has not been kind to the wallet... NiceHCK EB2, Linsoul BLD 150 2.5mm and VE Odyssey on the way.. finally unable to resist the poison on this thread any longer


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Matarro said:


> That looks very nice, and you can get it with 2.5mm balanced! Which connector do you have?


I got the 3.5mm standard. I have only the RunAbout, Mojo and IFI black label and they don't have balanced. I'm planing to go to USA in January and will get a source with balanced input. Trying to decide which one...


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Zerohour88 said:


> nice, and I think I can get it from a local dealer too, so no need to rush for that 11.11 sale.
> 
> Though not putting any differentiating mark on the buds itself to tell the MKII apart is a bit confusing.


I noted that the only difference between them are the plugs:

MKII

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.23.52a37afdV2hM2M

MKI

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.48.52a37afdXjA1Mw


----------



## Willber (Nov 12, 2018)

Willber said:


> Hi all,
> Last month I bought the Snow Lotus 1.0 by mistake and am now thinking of getting the proper 1.0+. For comparison my current favourite buds are:
> 
> EMX500S
> ...


No recommendations received for the Snow Lotus 1.0+, and with 11/11 running out I decided to get these instead:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/AK-...Earplug-With-MMCX-Detachable/32922022257.html

55% ($27) is a good saving and hopefully they will be like my MEMT T5, only better...

So I have them, EB2 and DIY EMX500 PK2 on their way. Toys for Christmas!


----------



## j4100

Willber said:


> 55% ($27) is a good saving



Keep in mind that the savings quoted are generally hugely inflated for the 11.11 sales. However,  enjoy your new buds.


----------



## chinmie

yess, i held off from buying any earbuds this time. but i did spend some on other earphones though...


----------



## j4100

Marcos Fontana said:


> I got this one:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TY-...358.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dxGMTgk
> 
> Bass, details, everything!



Thought I was done with the sales, but tempted by this one.


----------



## Willber

j4100 said:


> Keep in mind that the savings quoted are generally hugely inflated for the 11.11 sales. However,  enjoy your new buds.


Yeah, the post-11/11 price for the PT25 is now $40 instead of the 'proper' $50. Still, that's $17 I've saved on them alone which I'm happy with. The EB2 have stayed around the same price, though.


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> Thought I was done with the sales, but tempted by this one.



Officially the 11:11 sale ended about an hour ago.


----------



## RobbS

I picked up a pair of T2s and **** V2s. We'll see how they stack up.


----------



## seanc6441

RobinFood said:


> Yes, I probably should have put on the thin foams I had on, I just worried about looking sketchy, and I might have stretched them too much for my other buds after. The shell size was quite big. That said, I am not sure they would have helped with the bass very much, it just seemed like there was no impact...so almost no sub-bass...to boost. Maybe it would have thickened the mids a little, but I liked how crystal clear the mids sounded, I am not sure I would have liked foams with them. I might go back and try them out in a few weeks, and will try to bring a spare set of foams.


If the bass is indeed lacking that could be influencing the soundstage considerably, not to mention the clarity.

I'm all for great clarity and massive soundstage but not at the expense of a bass response. That's what would concern me about spending that much money on the earbud.

But some dislike bass in earbuds so this will suit them quite possibly.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Officially the 11:11 sale ended about an hour ago.


Amazingly I bought a grand total of ZERO items during the sale. I feel like I deserve a reward for my courage haha


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> Amazingly I bought a grand total of ZERO items during the sale. I feel like I deserve a reward for my courage haha



Someone should bake you a cake


----------



## Marcos Fontana

j4100 said:


> Thought I was done with the sales, but tempted by this one.


It's a must!


----------



## snip3r77

seanc6441 said:


> Amazingly I bought a grand total of ZERO items during the sale. I feel like I deserve a reward for my courage haha



I bought vido, ry4s UE , 2 pcs of $7 cable . Costs of a meal heh


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> Officially the 11:11 sale ended about an hour ago.



Yeah, I realised that shortly after I posted. Still tempted though. Might get them at a later date. It's not like I'm short of earbuds


----------



## waynes world

Marcos Fontana said:


> I got this one:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TY-...358.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dxGMTgk
> 
> Bass, details, everything!





Marcos Fontana said:


> I forgot to mention this:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=444713325900764&set=a.393558967682867&type=3&theater



That facebook post is interesting. I have the Zen 1.0, and am now very interested in the TY Hi-Z HP-150s 150MKII 150ohm's.

How much were they during the sale?


----------



## Marcos Fontana

waynes world said:


> That facebook post is interesting. I have the Zen 1.0, and am now very interested in the TY Hi-Z HP-150s 150MKII 150ohm's.
> 
> How much were they during the sale?


Omg, I don't know. I bought it before, if I remember, I saw it around $25.


----------



## theresanarc

Looking for the absolute smallest diameter earbuds possible (Toneking ROS1s are 14mm but I don't care about sound quality in this case so I'd rather go cheaper than paying $25 for those). Anyways, would anyone know the diameter for these?:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Sco...lgo_pvid=af2444ca-1e56-459a-a75a-9b046a474b84

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Something else interesting I found, a bunch of budget earbuds using the Qian 39/Edifier H180 shell which I hadn't seen before. Dunno if anyone here had tried them:

Generic brand with volume control:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/In-...lgo_pvid=281fa42d-28cb-438b-8999-6379a27b3501


VPB S8 for extremely cheap:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/VPB...lgo_pvid=44b80e15-cb55-4fc5-8919-0dcde11b6817

DP100:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...lgo_pvid=281fa42d-28cb-438b-8999-6379a27b3501


----------



## ClieOS

[NEWS] Pre-order of Titanium Ling has began to ship.


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> [NEWS] Pre-order of Titanium Ling has began to ship.


I know I briefly mentioned this before but do they have an email or facebook in which to contact them for direct purchase. I'd rather not spend a fortune with the inflated ali prices, and I'm willing to take a chance on these with the pre order as I like the potential of the Black Ling but felt it could be improved and refined. Seems this ticks those boxes and will be a sort of final TOTL purchase from me for a long while.

I know you mentioned they are primarily chinese speaking but they may be able to communicate which basic english and give me a method of paying and ship to me.

Any word on the final price? Last I heard it was $438 I believe or close to it.


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> I know I briefly mentioned this before but do they have an email or facebook in which to contact them for direct purchase. I'd rather not spend a fortune with the inflated ali prices, and I'm willing to take a chance on these with the pre order as I like the potential of the Black Ling but felt it could be improved and refined. Seems this ticks those boxes and will be a sort of final TOTL purchase from me for a long while.
> 
> I know you mentioned they are primarily chinese speaking but they may be able to communicate which basic english and give me a method of paying and ship to me.
> 
> Any word on the final price? Last I heard it was $438 I believe or close to it.



About USD$330 and $375 for low and high impedance version, TaoBao official price according to today exchange rate.

K only has an Taobao store and you can order from them with an international credit card as Taobao does accepts them, but the problem is how to ship the earbud to you (and the communication inbetween) as Taobao by itself only ships to very limited countries officially. A third party shipper will solve the problem but generally you will have to set it up (again, language might be an issue here). Otherwise EMS might be an viable option.

As far as direct communication goes, Chinese have moved away from email generally and mainly conduct their business either via QQ or WeChat, beside using TaoBao internal messaging service.


----------



## Willber

theresanarc said:


> Qian 39/Edifier H180 shell


They are not the same. From memory (I can't check because they are packed away) the Qian39 is slightly smaller than the Edifier.

Qian39 shell (also Monk Lite)






Edifier H180 shell (also SHE3800)


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> ...Any word on the final price? Last I heard it was $438 I believe or close to it.



Just asked K, he is fine with direct English communication and purchase. Shipping can be done via EMS. You can contact him via QQ or WeChat, PM me for detail.


----------



## chaiyuta

I look up the "*钛铃 预售 链接*" official taobao product page but there are still same two option which are "redeem difference" and "fully paid". "fully paid" is 2999 yuan.


----------



## ClieOS

chaiyuta said:


> I look up the "*钛铃 预售 链接*" official taobao product page but there are still same two option which are "redeem difference" and "fully paid". "fully paid" is 2999 yuan.



Again, that's pre-order link (price is amended once you placed the pre-order) intended for the old customers. The retail price has not been updated yet, since mass production has not began yet.


----------



## golov17

chaiyuta said:


> I look up the "*钛铃 预售 链接*" official taobao product page but there are still same two option which are "redeem difference" and "fully paid". "fully paid" is 2999 yuan.


Any pics?


----------



## Zerohour88

golov17 said:


> Any pics?



https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-2341332192.26.6717ea4f7tI9mz&id=576940933514



Spoiler: pics


----------



## fairx

I endure 11.11 by buying iem instead. If only I didn't blow my funds in my holiday.  Those puresounds 500 are in my cart like forever. They never participate in any sale though.


----------



## chinmie

fairx said:


> I endure 11.11 by buying iem instead. If only I didn't blow my funds in my holiday.  Those puresounds 500 are in my cart like forever. They never participate in any sale though.



how much are they now? the PS100-500 is mighty fine though.. i use it with my ATH R70X, and swapping between them, aside for the obviously larger soundstage of the R70X (because of the physical size of it) they really do sound really similar


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Got an email from Aydhi and vunbud is a go.  Just ordered one.  So get on it if you want one. They have been going fast.


----------



## cocolinho

I got a pair of Vunbuds couples of months ago but they had an issue with polarity. Instead of shipping them back (quite expensive) I decided to open the shell and did the reparation myself.
Still need burn-in (if any impact) but they sound good, not as bassy as expected. Pretty balanced actually. I'm using my ZX300 balanced


----------



## Danneq

Blox TM9 has received a lot of criticism lately. I have skipped foams and gone to the same solution as with Cypherus ZoomFred: rubber rings with fins where I cut off the fins. Bass is retained and while they still are a bit gentle I find them to be really excellent and slightly more forward than with just foams! I am a bit intrigued by the 2 new Blox earbuds, but TM9 with rubber rings and no foams are enough Blox for me for a while. They do have a unique sound.

With SWD2+ I have tried some different options such as full thick foams and donut foams but thin VE foams seem to work the best for me...


----------



## chinmie

Danneq said:


> Blox TM9 has received a lot of criticism lately. I have skipped foams and gone to the same solution as with Cypherus ZoomFred: rubber rings with fins where I cut off the fins. Bass is retained and while they still are a bit gentle I find them to be really excellent and slightly more forward than with just foams! I am a bit intrigued by the 2 new Blox earbuds, but TM9 with rubber rings and no foams are enough Blox for me for a while. They do have a unique sound.
> 
> With SWD2+ I have tried some different options such as full thick foams and donut foams but thin VE foams seem to work the best for me...



which one do you prefer? i like the swd2+ much better than the tm9.. too soft and unfocused for me. no matter how huge the soundstage it has


----------



## Danneq

chinmie said:


> which one do you prefer? i like the swd2+ much better than the tm9.. too soft and unfocused for me. no matter how huge the soundstage it has



I like them both but have not compared them directly. The big soundstage is what they have in common. I do not mind the sharpness of SWD2+, but have noticed that they can become a bit fatiguing during extended listening sessions. TM9 just goes on and on and on without making my ears tired. In short burst I might prefer SWD2+, though.

But overall I think that ZoomFred might beat both for my sound preferences.


----------



## nhlean96 (Nov 13, 2018)

Borrowed the Snow Lotus 1.0+ from my bro. Amazing smooth midrange, a little bit laid-back but details reveal pretty well for such a budget earbud. Bass is impressive, capable of delivering good impact, with deep extension, sub-bass is very audible. Overall sound is similar to Monk+ with much nicer bass, midrange smoothness, and ability to reveal micro-details.
Probably no brainer choice for under $10. Ironically, without MIC is the only option for these amazing buds.


----------



## fairx (Nov 13, 2018)

chinmie said:


> how much are they now? the PS100-500 is mighty fine though.. i use it with my ATH R70X, and swapping between them, aside for the obviously larger soundstage of the R70X (because of the physical size of it) they really do sound really similar


Around 80usd. The price doesn't seems to move much. Not sure about taobao price though.

Edit. Digging around taobao, cheapest variations come down to 57usd..


----------



## Zerohour88

fairx said:


> Around 80usd. The price doesn't seems to move much. Not sure about taobao price though.
> 
> Edit. Digging around taobao, cheapest variations come down to 57usd..



isn't it like 50 usd? I remember looking around for it after chimie (or someone else) mentioned it being almost as good as the Samsara. Then 11.11 rolled along and Samsara/EBX got a whole lot cheaper


----------



## fairx

Zerohour88 said:


> isn't it like 50 usd? I remember looking around for it after chimie (or someone else) mentioned it being almost as good as the Samsara. Then 11.11 rolled along and Samsara/EBX got a whole lot cheaper


Not sure I've missed that price cut. I've been eyeing it for quite some time though. Still hanging around Rm300 - 330 when automatically converted to my local currency.  Thus around 74-80usd. I always check the price every time I open my AE app.


----------



## golov17

Don't miss eb2..  nice pair arrived .. detailed forward mids, very good this with dark sourses and thick foams


----------



## Zerohour88

fairx said:


> Not sure I've missed that price cut. I've been eyeing it for quite some time though. Still hanging around Rm300 - 330 when automatically converted to my local currency.  Thus around 74-80usd. I always check the price every time I open my AE app.



https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...a6jr4&id=534873989732&ns=1&abbucket=16#detail

cheapest option (Pop or Classic with the standard cable) is 339 yuan, so comes around to 49 usd (rm204). Though with shipping and currency exchange rate, will bump it up a bit higher.


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> Just asked K, he is fine with direct English communication and purchase. Shipping can be done via EMS. You can contact him via QQ or WeChat, PM me for detail.


Thank you i will do so soon


----------



## Grayson73

I'm in the U.S. and am thinking about buying 30 of the RY4S (UE cable) for gifts.  Do you think buying that many will cause customs to charge me duty/import/taxes?


----------



## mbwilson111

Grayson73 said:


> I'm in the U.S. and am thinking about buying 30 of the RY4S (UE cable) for gifts.  Do you think buying that many will cause customs to charge me duty/import/taxes?



It certainly would here in the UK.  Maybe you should find out what the rules are there.


----------



## j4100

Grayson73 said:


> I'm in the U.S. and am thinking about buying 30 of the RY4S (UE cable) for gifts.  Do you think buying that many will cause customs to charge me duty/import/taxes?



Perhaps you could come to an agreement with the seller to send them out in multiple packages to reduce package value? Just a thought. I don't know what value the taxes kick in.


----------



## Willber

golov17 said:


> Don't miss eb2..  nice pair arrived .. detailed forward mids, very good this with dark sourses and thick foams


Waiting... waiting...


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Grayson73 said:


> I'm in the U.S. and am thinking about buying 30 of the RY4S (UE cable) for gifts.  Do you think buying that many will cause customs to charge me duty/import/taxes?


You are a good person.  
I don't belive that there would be a tariff or tax on that. If you are buying 30 of them I would contact the dealer for a special price. Also even at $8 each, that's only $240. I have purchased more then that amount from AE and never paid a tax. You should be fine.


----------



## snip3r77

Grayson73 said:


> I'm in the U.S. and am thinking about buying 30 of the RY4S (UE cable) for gifts.  Do you think buying that many will cause customs to charge me duty/import/taxes?


Msg the seller. Split into a few batches since shipping is free.


----------



## mbwilson111

BadReligionPunk said:


> You are a good person.
> I don't belive that there would be a tariff or tax on that. If you are buying 30 of them I would contact the dealer for a special price. Also even at $8 each, that's only $240. I have purchased more then that amount from AE and never paid a tax. You should be fine.



You are lucky.  In the UK anything over £16 is subject to customs fees.  20% of the stated value PLUS a £8- £11 handling fee (exact amount depends on the courier.    

The government is talking about getting rid of the £16 exemption and taxing everything that comes in. If that happens we are done.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

mbwilson111 said:


> You are lucky.  In the UK anything over £16 is subject to customs fees.  20% of the stated value PLUS a £8- £11 handling fee (exact amount depends on the courier.
> 
> The government is talking about getting rid of the £16 exemption and taxing everything that comes in. If that happens we are done.


Even if it marked gift?


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> You are lucky.  In the UK anything over £16 is subject to customs fees.  20% of the stated value PLUS a £8- £11 handling fee (exact amount depends on the courier.


That's strange, I've never been charged customs fees. How do they take their money?


----------



## iron2k

BadReligionPunk said:


> Even if it marked gift?


I think the main point is the DECLARE VALUE. Usually the AE seller puts something way less than real price in the package but you may want to make sure.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> That's strange, I've never been charged customs fees. How do they take their money?



Mainly has happened with things from Massdrop.. those are always caught.  If it comes Royal Mail you get a card in your mail telling you how much you have to pay. You can take the card to the post office to pay and pick up your parcel.  I think they may have finally added the ability to pay online so that your postman can bring it.

If it is DHL you get an usually get an email and can pay online and then it is delivered.  

A couple of times the the delivery person asked for the money at the door but we cannot remember who the carrier was.

We are usually ok with with the aliexpress purchases that use the free shipping method.


----------



## Willber

Ah, I use AE almost exclusively (sometimes Penon and Gearbest). Never Massdrop, though.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> Ah, I use AE almost exclusively (sometimes Penon and Gearbest). Never Massdrop, though.



We don't use massdrop  anymore because of the customs fees.

We did have to pay recently on an AE package.  The seller had put $20 value on the package and on the day it cleared customs $20 was just under £17... so apparently there is no flexibility on that £16 rule.  It was annoying because even VAT was only around £3 there was also the £8 handling fee.   That adds a lot to a $20 item.  Today $20 is just over $15 so that would pass.


----------



## Willber

That was bad luck. I suppose it helps that I buy mostly cheap (sorry, budget) stuff!

I'll check the parcel next time to see what amount they've put on it. I've never bothered to look before.


----------



## CasstardPie

The bigger aliexpress sellers usually downplay the price to avoid the customs tax. Usually it's the smaller, newer stores that price packages accurately


----------



## CasstardPie

11.11 was a no go for me cause of other audio expenses I did get a qian69 and the nicehck fukubukuro deal, as well as tips, cables and the like


----------



## MisterMudd

J


nhlean96 said:


> Borrowed the Snow Lotus 1.0+ from my bro. Amazing smooth midrange, a little bit laid-back but details reveal pretty well for such a budget earbud. Bass is impressive, capable of delivering good impact, with deep extension, sub-bass is very audible. Overall sound is similar to Monk+ with much nicer bass, midrange smoothness, and ability to reveal micro-details.
> Probably no brainer choice for under $10. Ironically, without MIC is the only option for these amazing buds.


Just got mine from Amazon, and with a quick listen I agree with your assessment. Their foam covers seem thick, which rendered the laid-back sound. Swapped out to some thinner generics from eBay and brought out more details and treble. Fantastic for 10 clams, and man, the soundstage is incredible. My new favorite. Eager to try them with my various DAPs to find the best synergy.


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> Mainly has happened with things from Massdrop.. those are always caught.  If it comes Royal Mail you get a card in your mail telling you how much you have to pay. You can take the card to the post office to pay and pick up your parcel.  I think they may have finally added the ability to pay online so that your postman can bring it.
> 
> If it is DHL you get an usually get an email and can pay online and then it is delivered.
> 
> ...



The $79 Massdrop SDAC was delivered by DHL. The "Value for duty (CAN$)" was $104.83, and I think anything more than $100CAD is what might trigger duty. But in this case I just got dinged for taxes and a "handling fee". It wasn't too much, by I should have asked them to split up the SDAC into multiple shipments.


----------



## waynes world

MisterMudd said:


> J
> 
> Just got mine from Amazon, and with a quick listen I agree with your assessment. Their foam covers seem thick, which rendered the laid-back sound. Swapped out to some thinner generics from eBay and brought out more details and treble. Fantastic for 10 clams, and man, the soundstage is incredible. My new favorite. Eager to try them with my various DAPs to find the best synergy.



I think that someone needs to provide a "Snow Lotus 1.0+ verses RY4S UE" showdown!


----------



## doggiemom

A couple of post-11/11 shopping alerts:  Just popped on Rholupat to get Willsound VJC (MK1 and MK2 are available), and the infamous VUNBUDs are back available too.  
Eh.... just went to checkout, and MK1 VJC are out of stock.  Get 'em while they are hot, apparently!


----------



## waynes world

doggiemom said:


> A couple of post-11/11 shopping alerts:  Just popped on Rholupat to get Willsound VJC (MK1 and MK2 are available), and the infamous VUNBUDs are back available too.
> Eh.... just went to checkout, and MK1 VJC are out of stock.  Get 'em while they are hot, apparently!



Do you still wholly endorse the Funbud?


----------



## nhlean96

MisterMudd said:


> J
> 
> Just got mine from Amazon, and with a quick listen I agree with your assessment. Their foam covers seem thick, which rendered the laid-back sound. Swapped out to some thinner generics from eBay and brought out more details and treble. Fantastic for 10 clams, and man, the soundstage is incredible. My new favorite. Eager to try them with my various DAPs to find the best synergy.


Make sure you get a 1.0+ (yeah with PLUS), they're available in Blue/Silver colors only, and don't have Mic option. I've read from a guy have the 1.0 and 1.0+ that the 1.0+ is much better, with wider soundstage and more clarity.


----------



## subwoof3r

waynes world said:


> I think that someone needs to provide a "Snow Lotus 1.0+ verses RY4S UE" showdown!


Planned, but still checking where to buy 1.0+ 



nhlean96 said:


> Make sure you get a 1.0+ (yeah with PLUS), they're available in Blue/Silver colors only, and don't have Mic option. I've read from a guy have the 1.0 and 1.0+ that the 1.0+ is much better, with wider soundstage and more clarity.


Where do you see any 1.0+ available ? looks like on official Faaeal store from ali they are all sold out.
I was waiting for many days but they don't get back to stock.
I prefer to buy directly from Faaeal to be sure having an official pair


----------



## Matarro

Ok, so I ordered Vunbud. So much for my resolve to not buy anything until after my vacation. Then again I won't get these things until after I return so that means it doesn't count, right?


----------



## nhlean96

subwoof3r said:


> Planned, but still checking where to buy 1.0+
> 
> 
> Where do you see any 1.0+ available ? looks like on official Faaeal store from ali they are all sold out.
> ...


Here you are:
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...rphones-HIFI-Earbuds/2178200_32804583069.html
How they manage the links is kinda confusing  The 1.0+ costs $9.76, $0.72 more than the 1.0


----------



## subwoof3r

nhlean96 said:


> Here you are:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...rphones-HIFI-Earbuds/2178200_32804583069.html
> How they manage the links is kinda confusing  The 1.0+ costs $9.76, $0.72 more than the 1.0


Oww nice! thank you very much! 
Couldn't agree more for the links, hehe
Finally gonna order one pair.


----------



## Danneq (Nov 14, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> You are lucky.  In the UK anything over £16 is subject to customs fees.  20% of the stated value PLUS a £8- £11 handling fee (exact amount depends on the courier.
> 
> The government is talking about getting rid of the £16 exemption and taxing everything that comes in. If that happens we are done.




Welcome to Sweden of today! Or at least since March this year.

We pay a bit less in handling fee, around 75 SEK which is about £6.30 (for PostNord).The tax is something like 10 or 12,5% of the stated value. Supposedly it is okay to send gifts if the declared value is less than 500 SEK (about $55). But I know of incidents when PostNord ignores that. This summer we sent some stuff to friends and family from Japan to Sweden. Some of it was okay but some of it was slapped with tax and handling fee without any apparent reason. Sadly my friends are not used to stand their ground against authorities so they just paid it.

Woo wrote $10 value on the TM9 package and marked it as gift but I was still charged taxes and handling fees. It was just around 80 SEK in total and I had waited for the TM9 for 3 weeks since it arrived to Swedish customs, so I just paid even if I could have had them remove the fee. But that would probably have added another 2-3 weeks to the time I had to wait for them.

Nowadays I mostly buy stuff from within the EU. But when you like cheap Chinese electronics the selection is pretty small...


----------



## Matarro

Danneq said:


> Welcome to Sweden of today! Or at least since March this year.
> 
> We pay a bit less in handling fee, around 75 SEK which is about £6.30 (for PostNord).The tax is something like 10 or 12,5% of the stated value. Supposedly it is okay to send gifts if the declared value is less than 500 SEK (about $55). But I know of incidents when PostNord ignores that. This summer we sent some stuff to friends and family from Japan to Sweden. Some of it was okay but some of it was slapped with tax and handling fee without any apparent reason. Sadly my friends are not used to stand their ground against authorities so they just paid it.
> 
> ...



The pictures of the package they send along with the fee makes it feel like a hostage exchange. Honestly though, I think their incompetence is what makes it unacceptable. To charge a handling fee and still not be able to deliver until weeks later is just adding insult to injury.


----------



## Grayson73

waynes world said:


> I think that someone needs to provide a "Snow Lotus 1.0+ verses RY4S UE" showdown!



I just ordered both due to you!


----------



## Grayson73

Also, thanks to all about customs.  I think the limit is $800 in the U.S. so I should be fine.  Before ordering 30, I decided to order one each of the Snow Lotus 1.0 plus and RY4S UE so I can decide which one I'm buying 30 of


----------



## carloshacecosas (Nov 14, 2018)

I received my T-Music V2 last week and I'm loving them! They're my first earbuds, and being used to my Shure SE215 and KZ ES4, the soundstage is mindblowing. They sound really balanced, and while they're not bassy I don't miss more bass for most of the music I use them for (Milton Nascimento, Arthur Verocai, Too Slow To Disco...)

They're also really well made, and I can wear them for hours without discomfort. I just wonder: what foams do you use for your earbuds?

Actually yesterday I went to buy a second pair and now they're almost x4 the price I bought them a month ago. Weird...


----------



## waynes world

Grayson73 said:


> I just ordered both due to you!



Thankyou. My enabling job is well done.









Grayson73 said:


> Also, thanks to all about customs.  I think the limit is $800 in the U.S. so I should be fine.  Before ordering 30, I decided to order one each of the Snow Lotus 1.0 plus and RY4S UE so I can decide which one I'm buying 30 of



We are all looking forward to your comparison. No pressure!


----------



## Snowball0906

Hi, I wonder if mojo makes a good pair with most of the earbuds?


----------



## Willber

Good review of the EB2 here:

http://audiofool.reviews/2018/10/03/nicehck-eb2-earbud/

_"If you have had a desire to try a flagship earbud, the EB2 is an excellent way to try out the breed without spending flagship money to do so. The problem for NiceHCK may well be that the toughest competition for their EBX is their EB2"_


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Snowball0906 said:


> Hi, I wonder if mojo makes a good pair with most of the earbuds?


I have Mojo, IFI Black Label and RunAbout. Mojo is amazing. It sounds great with everything that I have. The only thing that I miss in Mojo and I have in Black Label is the iPurifier. Mojo is my portable DAC.


----------



## j4100

Ha-ha! I missed the Vunbuds again


----------



## theresanarc

I have no idea why that reviewer for the EB2 is using an average score where he's factoring in accessories and stuff equally to the sound. I mean, it's earbuds, at the end of the day your final score should be on how they sound and build quality (which isn't even as relevant in terms of ChiFi). 

Anyways, are those EB2s the same size or smaller than that open-back Headroom one (MS16 or something I think).


----------



## waynes world

j4100 said:


> Ha-ha! I missed the Vunbuds again



I guess I did too then. I partly didn't jump on them right away because my ears are very happy at the moment (rotating a lot through the ry4s, Fengru pk1 2.5mm 150ohm, and Svara L's). Also, I'm not sure to go with the Vunbud's, or some others that have been flung about here lately.


----------



## subwoof3r

nhlean96 said:


> Here you are:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...rphones-HIFI-Earbuds/2178200_32804583069.html
> How they manage the links is kinda confusing  The 1.0+ costs $9.76, $0.72 more than the 1.0


Finally was in front of my computer to make the order but the article is not available anymore 
I'm not feeling lucky tonight..
I guess we can't buy anymore Snow Lotus 1.0+ then ?


----------



## snip3r77

waynes world said:


> Thankyou. My enabling job is well done.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What’s with the snow 1.0 plus?? Any review 
I clicked on the link and there’s no sock avail


----------



## mbwilson111

snip3r77 said:


> What’s with the snow 1.0 plus?? Any review
> I clicked on the link and there’s no sock avail



We talked about it so much that people bought them all.. not just us who are members but also the people who lurk.. usually more lurkers than members at any given time.


----------



## snip3r77

mbwilson111 said:


> We talked about it so much that people bought them all.. not just us who are members but also the people who lurk.. usually more lurkers than members at any given time.



Ry4s ue vs 1.0 plus ?
similar flavor?


----------



## doggiemom

waynes world said:


> Do you still wholly endorse the Funbud?


I do!  Someone earlier posted (sorry, I am too lazy to find the post) that they are not that bass heavy, but well-balanced.  I don't disagree with the latter part, but I do still think that the bass is emphasized (though not to the point of sounding weird), and that it is thumpin'....... at least compared to most of the buds commonly discussed here.  Expecting an earbud to have the same thumpy-ness (is that a word?) as some of the bass heavy closed back full sized cans (e.g. Fostex) is not really fair....... but for an earbud, I think the Vunbud brings the bass.

(I'm gonna go grab them now and listen again to make sure I didn't stick my foot in my mouth...... if this post is edited, you who are online now will know I did).


----------



## mbwilson111

snip3r77 said:


> Ry4s ue vs 1.0 plus ?
> similar flavor?



I have not tried to compare.  Love them both.


----------



## doggiemom

Sorry for the double post, but didn't want to edit my original post based on its contents....... Vunbud brings it!  Listening to The War on Drugs, and the Vunbuds come as close to replicating the "wall of sound" that is characteristic of their music as any bud I've heard in its price range.  (The last part of that statement is important, as everyone here knows that I am a Cypherus fan girl).   

I don't listen to a ton of EDM, but these would probably not be the best choice for that, as they have a bit of a relaxed presentation.  But yeah, the bass is there in quantity....... one of my secret favorite songs is Train's "Play that Song."  But the mixing on that track is soooooooo awful...... the vocals are loud to the point of distortion, and the bass is similarly 'roided up.  With the Vunbuds the bass punches you in the head.  (Which is not to say anything bad about the Vunbud; it is a criticism of whoever produced that Train album.  Don't tell anyone I like that song, please).

To me, the Vunbud is v-shaped with a definite emphasis on bass thump, the treble almost sparkles (in a good way - to my ears the TY lineup and some other stuff that is liked by many is piercing), and the sound stage and imaging are really impressive for a $50 bud.   The vocals can be a bit thin for some female singers, but hey, you can't have it all.  I was surprised at how well the Vunbud handled The Lone Bellow's new EP:  it is an all acoustic collection of new songs, old songs revisited, and covers (Pink Rabbits!)...... that album sounds like poop on my car stereo.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

doggiemom said:


> Sorry for the double post, but didn't want to edit my original post based on its contents....... Vunbud brings it!  Listening to The War on Drugs, and the Vunbuds come as close to replicating the "wall of sound" that is characteristic of their music as any bud I've heard in its price range.  (The last part of that statement is important, as everyone here knows that I am a Cypherus fan girl).
> 
> I don't listen to a ton of EDM, but these would probably not be the best choice for that, as they have a bit of a relaxed presentation.  But yeah, the bass is there in quantity....... one of my secret favorite songs is Train's "Play that Song."  But the mixing on that track is soooooooo awful...... the vocals are loud to the point of distortion, and the bass is similarly 'roided up.  With the Vunbuds the bass punches you in the head.  (Which is not to say anything bad about the Vunbud; it is a criticism of whoever produced that Train album.  Don't tell anyone I like that song, please).
> 
> To me, the Vunbud is v-shaped with a definite emphasis on bass thump, the treble almost sparkles (in a good way - to my ears the TY lineup and some other stuff that is liked by many is piercing), and the sound stage and imaging are really impressive for a $50 bud.   The vocals can be a bit thin for some female singers, but hey, you can't have it all.  I was surprised at how well the Vunbud handled The Lone Bellow's new EP:  it is an all acoustic collection of new songs, old songs revisited, and covers (Pink Rabbits!)...... that album sounds like poop on my car stereo.



I guess I will get to see for myself whenever I get them. Back a couple weeks ago I emailed Ahdi, and asked if he could email me when they were back in stock. He mailed me yesterday morning and I immediately bought them. Good thing as they didn't last long.


----------



## doggiemom

BadReligionPunk said:


> I guess I will get to see for myself whenever I get them. Back a couple weeks ago I emailed Ahdi, and asked if he could email me when they were back in stock. He mailed me yesterday morning and I immediately bought them. Good thing as they didn't last long.


I am looking forward to hearing your impressions!  I really like them (obviously......) but a previous poster said that there was a wiring issue with the set he received.  Hopefully that was a fluke and they are uniformly awesome....... sometimes I wonder about the robustness of a lot of the DIY buds...... how consistent are they from pair to pair?  If mine is a unicorn, I hope that the horse poops rainbows for you as well.


----------



## csglinux

I recently picked up a pair of the new Audio Technica ATH-C200IS buds. 
Here's my in-depth review on them:




 

I also picked up some Ak EMXs-500 buds. Again, I spent a lot of time on generating a review that truly reflected my thoughts and opinions on these buds:


----------



## chinmie

csglinux said:


> I recently picked up a pair of the new Audio Technica ATH-C200IS buds.
> Here's my in-depth review on them:
> 
> 
> ...



best reviewer on headfi


----------



## csglinux

chinmie said:


> best reviewer on headfi


Well, like I said, I put a lot of effort into it. I wanted to get it just right


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> best reviewer on headfi



You're not kidding! Incredibly concise!


----------



## redkingjoe

csglinux said:


> I recently picked up a pair of the new Audio Technica ATH-C200IS buds.
> Here's my in-depth review on them:
> 
> 
> ...



Succinct!


----------



## redkingjoe

Recently, I saw a lot of posts on FB on JVC recabled!

Anyone any experience?

Thanks.


----------



## HeadlessChicken

csglinux said:


> I recently picked up a pair of the new Audio Technica ATH-C200IS buds.
> Here's my in-depth review on them:
> 
> 
> ...


pictures really do speak a thousand words!


----------



## Snowball0906

Marcos Fontana said:


> I have Mojo, IFI Black Label and RunAbout. Mojo is amazing. It sounds great with everything that I have. The only thing that I miss in Mojo and I have in Black Label is the iPurifier. Mojo is my portable DAC.



Thanks! I’m still having dilemma in getting Mojo or ifi nano BL. May I know which one will you recommend?


----------



## snip3r77

Houston we have a problem


----------



## RevPizzaguy

snip3r77 said:


> Houston we have a problem



Noooooo!!!! I was thinking of buying another pair!


----------



## subwoof3r

RevPizzaguy said:


> Noooooo!!!! I was thinking of buying another pair!


Don't forget people who didn't had a chance to get a pair in the past! 
Damn.... anyway I'm happy with my RY4S for now by waiting my YIN


----------



## mbwilson111

RevPizzaguy said:


> Noooooo!!!! I was thinking of buying another pair!



Wow I will take good care of mine.  

I guess there is no point in recommending them noe


----------



## snip3r77

Snowball0906 said:


> Thanks! I’m still having dilemma in getting Mojo or ifi nano BL. May I know which one will you recommend?



Sdac pls o2 at Massdrop
The balance you can buy more ToTL


----------



## snip3r77

Let’s have another sub $10 replacement
And get the ball rolling


----------



## seanc6441

snip3r77 said:


> Sdac pls o2 at Massdrop
> The balance you can buy more ToTL


Aren't they a desk amp-dac setup? If so then the new JDS Atom is apperantly one of the best measuring amps under $1000 for $99.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Aren't they a desk amp-dac setup? If so then the new JDS Atom is apperantly one of the best measuring amps under $1000 for $99.



I recently got the SDAC and have been pairing it with various portable amps, but I should get a desktop amp (like the o2). The JDS Atom seems worth considering. Thanks.


----------



## FastAndClean

i just received the  RY4S (my first earbud purchase) and that ting sound amazing for just 8 dollars, exceeded my expectations, it is super clean with very nice soundstage


----------



## seanc6441

FastAndClean said:


> i just received the  RY4S (my first earbud purchase) and that ting sound amazing for just 8 dollars, exceeded my expectations, it is super clean with very nice soundstage


Amazing how far $8 can get you. I really love the bass on the RY4S UE. Just enough depth and great punch. Need to order a second one so I can mod the first and compare. Wanna upgrade the cable with 8 core OCC and open the second bass port.


----------



## FastAndClean

I purchased two pairs, that was good move


----------



## FastAndClean

omg the two pairs sound different, red one is balanced and a little bright, the blue one has less mids and more bass


----------



## BadReligionPunk

FastAndClean said:


> i just received the  RY4S (my first earbud purchase) and that ting sound amazing for just 8 dollars, exceeded my expectations, it is super clean with very nice soundstage



Yea I have been using for a week or so, and I can say that I think its better then EMX500, which is also great. I guess I just like the extra clarity in the mids and the brighter treble. Insane how good it is for $8.


----------



## waynes world

FastAndClean said:


> omg the two pairs sound different, red one is balanced and a little bright, the blue one has less mids and more bass



Are either of those a "UE" version?


----------



## FastAndClean

waynes world said:


> Are either of those a "UE" version?


no is just RY4S - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4...211.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.46594c4dfwEz1A


----------



## mbwilson111

FastAndClean said:


> no is just RY4S - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4S-original-in-ear-Earphone-15mm-music-quality-sound-HIFI-Earphone-MX500-style-earphone-3-5mm/32820438211.html



In that link, option 3 and 4 have the UE cable (the brown one).

So many different choices and apparently the cable does change the sound.

It does seem like they are all good though.


----------



## FastAndClean

mbwilson111 said:


> In that link, option 3 and 4 have the UE cable (the brown one).
> 
> So many different choices and apparently the cable does change the sound.


i have blue and silver cable, TI versions, so is posible that the sound is different from the cables?


----------



## FastAndClean

also i have a buzzing noise on bassy tracks one the silver model, in the left ear, i hope burn in can help with that


----------



## mbwilson111

FastAndClean said:


> i have blue and silver cable, TI versions, so is posible that the sound is different from the cables?



Is the silver the brighter sounding one?  Many people say that silver cables make the sound brighter. 

I  hope someone has a tip about the buzzing noise ... is it a rattle in the driver?


----------



## waynes world

FastAndClean said:


> also i have a buzzing noise on bassy tracks one the silver model, in the left ear, i hope burn in can help with that



I don't like saying this, but suck it.


----------



## FastAndClean

mbwilson111 said:


> Is the silver the brighter sounding one?  Many people say that silver cables make the sound brighter.
> 
> I  hope someone has a tip about the buzzing noise ... is it a rattle in the driver?


it buzz in songs with low bass, the silver one is bright yes, and more clean


----------



## FastAndClean (Nov 15, 2018)

waynes world said:


> I don't like saying this, but suck it.


omg man that fixed the buzzing, the membran started to crincle and the buzzing noise is gone


----------



## waynes world

waynes world said:


> I don't like saying this, but suck it.





FastAndClean said:


> it buzz in songs with low bass, the silver one is bright yes, and more clean



In case my post wasn't clear (lol):
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2209#post-14371555
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2394#post-14512349
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2428#post-14533552

Edit: Ha - I see that you knew what I was saying!


----------



## FastAndClean

so anyone hwo want to buy that model, if you want neutral buy the ones with silver plated cables, if you want more bassy (mid and upper bass) buy the blue one


----------



## FastAndClean

waynes world said:


> Edit: Ha - I see that you knew what I was saying!


well the driver is soft mylar so i tought that some air can wobble the diaphragm and fix it, i try it and it did just that, thank you, i like the silver one better


----------



## mbwilson111

FastAndClean said:


> so anyone hwo want to buy that model, if you want neutral buy the ones with silver plated cables, if you want more bassy (mid and upper bass) buy the blue one



I only have the one with the UE cable and am more than happy with it  I think we are waiting for someone to compare the UE with one or more of the others.


----------



## FastAndClean

mbwilson111 said:


> I only have the one with the UE cable and am more than happy with it  I think we are waiting for someone to compare the UE with one or more of the others.


yes i have no idea how the brown sound, i purchased two more pairs of the silver cable ones


----------



## FastAndClean

i am moving from full size headphones to earbuds and in ears, it seem to me that the earbuds are more close in sound to open back headphones and the in ears more to closed back


----------



## FastAndClean

big airy soundstage seems pretty easy for a ear bud, for in ear not so much


----------



## mbwilson111

FastAndClean said:


> i am moving from full size headphones to earbuds and in ears, it seem to me that the earbuds are more close in sound to open back headphones and the in ears more to closed back



I agree.  I have some that almost convince me that I am wearing full sized headphones.  I felt that way when I was listening to my BGVP DX3 (discontinued now) last night.  I still love my headphones but during the hotter than normal summer that we had I was unable to use them.


----------



## FastAndClean

mbwilson111 said:


> I agree.  I have some that almost convince me that I am wearing full sized headphones.  I felt that way when I was listening to my BGVP DX3 (discontinued now) last night.  I still love my headphones but during the hotter than normal summer that we had I was unable to use them.


that is one of the reasons i am giving on them, also my favorite (HE500) is very heavy, i appreciate comfort a lot more now, and those earbuds are very comfortable, the sound is not at the same level but comfort is very important to enjoy music


----------



## groucho69

waynes world said:


> I don't like saying this, but suck it.



I think you do like saying it.


----------



## RuFrost

selling\trading almost all my earbuds) K'Black Ling, Zen2 Black Cardas, Yinman 600; Toneking TO200, Shozy BK Stardust 2.5mm; Monk (v1 original).
if somebody is interested in something - let me know)


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 15, 2018)

FastAndClean said:


> also i have a buzzing noise on bassy tracks one the silver model, in the left ear, i hope burn in can help with that


That's a driver issue, i think mine has it too. Sometimes literally sucking (yes, you heard that right lol) on the front cover can create a vacuum and pull the driver or any dust on it out. This can help sometimes.

Edit: ah I see @waynes world was eager to answer that first 

But im afraid there's a good chance that it will get worse over time.

SQ may be good for $8 but the quality control is just average. It only gets marginally better as the price goes up. I've had some expensive earbuds that needed repair after only a week or so of use...


----------



## seanc6441

FastAndClean said:


> that is one of the reasons i am giving on them, also my favorite (HE500) is very heavy, i appreciate comfort a lot more now, and those earbuds are very comfortable, the sound is not at the same level but comfort is very important to enjoy music


You can get headphone-like sound quality from high end earbuds but its best to test the waters with budget stuff first to fibd the right upgrade path.


----------



## FastAndClean

seanc6441 said:


> You can get headphone-like sound quality from high end earbuds but its best to test the waters with budget stuff first to fibd the right upgrade path.


i am considering that one next, it has titanium coated driver


----------



## FastAndClean

seanc6441 said:


> You can get headphone-like sound quality from high end earbuds but its best to test the waters with budget stuff first to fibd the right upgrade path.


can you tell me a model of a high end earbud, SHOZY BK?


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 15, 2018)

FastAndClean said:


> i am considering that one next, it has titanium coated driver


Awesome mids, no sub bass, polite but consistent treble (thanks to the titanuim coated driver I guess). I think it's a got excellent timbre but I cannot live without some form of sub bass and this just doesn't bring it at all.

But the imaging is fantastic thanks to the mids and treble finesse, it has this vintage headphone tonality to it, like my Senn HD540ii without any of the sibilance or sharpness. But also without even enough low end for dynamic driver standards imo.

It would make an excellent driver for a dual driver setup though, if one could source a bass driver and stick it in a dual driver shell

Also the shell has a unique fit, will work for some but not for others I'd imagine.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 15, 2018)

FastAndClean said:


> can you tell me a model of a high end earbud, SHOZY BK?


I bought and eventually sold the BK. It doesn't quite do it for me as its quite a niche genre bud with a mid centric signature. It's not up to TOTL standards in bass response or soundstage. Many budget earbuds outclass it in those regards which is not cool...

I won't blind rec anything but checking out Cypherus audio might be a good bet, everyone seems to love them and the higher end models like the zoomfred have been compared to headphones.

Also the new K's Titanium shell earbud which im am most likely purchasing very soon should be something to behold (i hope!). I'll give my impressions on it if I pull the trigger.

I have not heard the HE-500 so I could not say what is most similar in earbud form but im sure someone in this thread has and could suggest something to you


----------



## kw8910

seanc6441 said:


> Aren't they a desk amp-dac setup? If so then the new JDS Atom is apperantly one of the best measuring amps under $1000 for $99.


Thanks for the tip, picked one up!


----------



## nhlean96 (Nov 15, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> Don't forget people who didn't had a chance to get a pair in the past!
> Damn.... anyway I'm happy with my RY4S for now by waiting my YIN


It's weird that the seller said the 1.0+ was discontinued... In fact, they're sold in my country like hotcakes and even cheaper than on Aliexpress.
Anyway, if they're that hard to obtain, they're not worth the effort anymore. Maybe your RY4S is on-par with these 1.0+, given the same price range


----------



## silverfishla (Nov 15, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Awesome mids, no sub bass, polite but consistent treble (thanks to the titanuim coated driver I guess). I think it's a got excellent timbre but I cannot live without some form of sub bass and this just doesn't bring it at all.
> 
> But the imaging is fantastic thanks to the mids and treble finesse, it has this vintage headphone tonality to it, like my Senn HD540ii without any of the sibilance or sharpness. But also without even enough low end for dynamic driver standards imo.
> 
> ...


There's a new version with different tuning available...OurArt
https://penonaudio.com/ourart-acg.html?search=our art


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 16, 2018)

silverfishla said:


> There's a new version with different tuning available...OurArt
> https://penonaudio.com/ourart-acg.html?search=our art



Nothing is said about the bass on either


----------



## FastAndClean

i am getting the ACG version, damn too much "buy now" buttons lately


----------



## FastAndClean

i have nice 2.5mm balanced silver plated cables comming, will try it with them


----------



## silverfishla

mbwilson111 said:


> Nothing is said about the bass on either


On the page that I linked, there's a direct comparison chart with with the ACG and the Ti7.  I guess you'd have to have the Ti7 to sort of guess what they are trying to intimate.  The descriptions are pretty general though.  I have the Ti7 and like them for their quality and meaty mids.  You can get bass on them with the right cable (the cable that came with, was actually pretty dull sounding).


----------



## mbwilson111

silverfishla said:


> On the page that I linked, there's a direct comparison chart with with the ACG and the Ti7.  I guess you'd have to have the Ti7 to sort of guess what they are trying to intimate.  The descriptions are pretty general though.  I have the Ti7 and like them for their quality and meaty mids.  You can get bass on them with the right cable (the cable that came with, was actually pretty dull sounding).



Yes, that was what I was looking at when I said they did not bother to mention the bass at all.  I am not planning to get one.. it was just an observation.  My husband has the Ti7 but I have never listened to it.  I have enough to listen to!


----------



## fairx

Today Im fixing a couple of earbuds. Replace plug etc. And wanted to transplant ry4s UE cable to another buds. Curious if the cable really made difference somewhere. If it is then I might order a couple of similar looking cable on AE.

 But demm the shell wont crack open. Anybody succeded in prying them open before?


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 16, 2018)

silverfishla said:


> There's a new version with different tuning available...


I'd be surprised if they can squeeze any bass out if it unless it's a new driver. The shell isn't bass ported, has minimal venting and has a low seal fit.


mbwilson111 said:


> Nothing is said about the bass on either


I wouldn't hold my breath, it have to be a new driver to get reasonable bass, also the shell design seems ill suited for sub bass. No bass ports, not the best fit for seal either.


----------



## seanc6441

silverfishla said:


> On the page that I linked, there's a direct comparison chart with with the ACG and the Ti7.  I guess you'd have to have the Ti7 to sort of guess what they are trying to intimate.  The descriptions are pretty general though.  I have the Ti7 and like them for their quality and meaty mids.  You can get bass on them with the right cable (the cable that came with, was actually pretty dull sounding).


 I really like the mids because it does what the shozy bk does only better. It's a bit analytical and dry but is sweeter somehow than the bk ever was and with better imaging and soundstage.


----------



## FastAndClean (Nov 16, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> I'd be surprised if they can squeeze any bass out if it unless it's a new driver. The shell isn't bass ported, has minimal venting and has a low seal fit.
> 
> I wouldn't hold my breath, it have to be a new driver to get reasonable bass, also the shell design seems ill suited for sub bass. No bass ports, not the best fit for seal either.


i will report after 2-3 weeks, i care for the mids, treble and soundstage, if a want bass a will grab some in ear


----------



## seanc6441

FastAndClean said:


> i will report after 2-3 weeks, i care for the mids, treble and soundstage, if a want bass a will grab some in ear


You can get all of that and a proper bass response in other offerings thats my main gripe. Although I will say the TI7 has better mids than anything I heard under $100 if you like full detailed vocals and zero sibilance but as someone who likes more treble emphasis I found myself EQing up the treble (and bass) but their are not many dips or peaks even in the upper treble which is rare for earbuds.


----------



## silverfishla

seanc6441 said:


> I'd be surprised if they can squeeze any bass out if it unless it's a new driver. The shell isn't bass ported, has minimal venting and has a low seal fit.
> 
> I wouldn't hold my breath, it have to be a new driver to get reasonable bass, also the shell design seems ill suited for sub bass. No bass ports, not the best fit for seal either.


I think it is a new driver.  They say it has an ultrathin membrane opposed to thin membrane.  That's all I can go by, really.  I don't know for sure.


----------



## seanc6441

silverfishla said:


> I think it is a new driver.  They say it has an ultrathin membrane opposed to thin membrane.  That's all I can go by, really.  I don't know for sure.


I'm really hesitant to trust any marketing talk about these new earbuds as I'm sure most of us are. Could be true, then again there's so much BS talk on aliexpress listings it's really hard to know lol


----------



## Ziggomatic

Listening to Nirvana's MTV Unplugged In New York on my HE 150pro while reading this.

Heaven, people.


----------



## silverfishla

seanc6441 said:


> I'm really hesitant to trust any marketing talk about these new earbuds as I'm sure most of us are. Could be true, then again there's so much BS talk on aliexpress listings it's really hard to know lol


I'm going by Penon's website and I think that the references are from the manufacturer...I think.


----------



## mbwilson111

Ziggomatic said:


> Listening to Nirvana's MTV Unplugged In New York on my HE 150pro while reading this.
> 
> Heaven, people.



Those are very nice buds... one of my newer ones that I need to spend more time with.  Got swept up in the hype on a few others...


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Snowball0906 said:


> Thanks! I’m still having dilemma in getting Mojo or ifi nano BL. May I know which one will you recommend?


I never listened to the nano. I have the IFI micro. I believe that Nano is great device and you can save some money to get a nice earbud or maybe a headphone. The most annoying thing about the mojo are the buttons that you never know the volume level in it. Both are great devices.


----------



## subwoof3r (Nov 16, 2018)

*Sad news* but... my RY4S followed the same die as my EMX500S 
I was trying tor recable it but one driver didn't survived trying to open it, unfortunately.
Too bad because I finally found the solution to open EMX500 shells without any scratch (just need to be careful with the tool I'm using).

I also killed my GM500 (I think drivers still work well), but I checked an interesting thing: GM500 has double foams glued each other, so you have the foam placed as classic position of EMX500 shells, but you have another one in placed in the rear drivers also. I tried to remove foams placed from the rear drivers but there is still some and hard to remove completely for fine job. I stopped here, but maybe I will try one day to remove that properly to try how they sound without that.

*But the good things are :*

my WIllsound MK2 perfectly recabled with 4 core silver plated 5N OCC Copper white cable, and I did not found any difference in term of sounding than with the stock black cable (excepted they looks good now).

I also recabled my PK2 mod using the same cable but in blue (now they looks good too!).

I received my same drivers that were used from NiceHCK DIY PK2 (which is in my current PK2 mod), and I can see no difference in sound using the same cable, but the funny thing is that I tried to use the UE from RY4S on them and mids looks forwarded with same bass but with slightly less details and treble, so overall silver cable is the winner (I guess that RY4S UE cable is just using copper).
So in conclusion, if it's copper cable used on RY4S, then it should already tame the brightness well, so I dont advice to give a try with silver cable.

Still waiting for my EMX500 drivers from ali to give a try and finally see if it's sounding the same as EMX500S (from my memory then!).
RIP my little RY4S... really loved them much (even better than my EMX500S). I think I will order another pair.. but this time I will avoid any mod on them.
Oh, and don't count on me trying to open Blox YIN shells!! haha

Cheers'


----------



## toear

Ziggomatic said:


> Listening to Nirvana's MTV Unplugged In New York on my HE 150pro while reading this.
> 
> Heaven, people.



The HE150pro are awesome!


----------



## toear

For those who thought the EB2 were a bit light on bass... It was driving me crazy so I took them apart. The timing foams on mine completely blocked the ports. I think they would be fine but the adhesive strip seems to completely block the openings. I took them out and reinstalled then but did not create a complete deal. The result?... Bass is back!


----------



## mbwilson111

toear said:


> For those who thought the EB2 were a bit light on bass... It was driving me crazy so I took them apart. The timing foams on mine completely blocked the ports. I think they would be fine but the adhesive strip seems to completely block the openings. I took them out and reinstalled then but did not create a complete deal. The result?... Bass is back!



Interesting... my bass was never missing...


----------



## snip3r77

Does 1.0+ sounds similar to ry4s UE?


----------



## toear (Nov 16, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Interesting... my bass was never missing...


Yes... I know you had commented about this before. I got to thinking that maybe my pair was defective. It's not that it didn't have bass... just very little bass presence. Not unlike the **** PT15s. I also modded the heck out of my PT15s to bring out the bass. It now has all the airy qualities that it did before, the mids are less forward/neutral, and the bass is more forward than before and neutral as well... the result is a much more balanced bud. Now that the EB2 is perhaps where it should be (need another pair to tell) it is like a 'cleaner' more detailed version of the Datura X? Datura X is warmer sounding but with excellent separation and soundstage/depth.


----------



## mbwilson111

toear said:


> Yes... I know you had commented about this before. I got to thinking that maybe my pair was defective. It's not that it didn't have bass... just very little bass presence. Not unlike the **** PT12s. I also modded the heck out of my PT12s to bring out the bass. It now has all the airy qualities that it did before, the mids are less forward/neutral, and the bass is more forward than before and neutral as well... the result is a much more balanced bud. Now that the EB2 is perhaps where it should be (need another pair to tell) it is like a 'cleaner' more detailed version of the Datura X? Datura X is warmer sounding but with excellent separation and soundstage/depth.



Did you mean PT15?  is there a PT12 that I don't know about?


----------



## toear

mbwilson111 said:


> Did you mean PT15?  is there a PT12 that I don't know about?


Oops sorry yes. Pt15


----------



## mbwilson111

toear said:


> Oops sorry yes. Pt15



I recently put a balanced cable on mine and plan to use them with the excellent balanced output on my new iBasso DX120 DAP.  I will have to report back about the bass.


----------



## GrassFed

Got me some Snow Lotuses here https://www.amazon.com/FAAEAL-Snow-lotus-Earphone-Earphones-Transparent/dp/B07BQ1M8N5/ref=sr_1_10. What's the difference between 1.0 and 1.0+?
They're very good, quite worthy of the hype train here. Mid and bass are somewhat thicker than I'd like, but vocal sounds great. Almost didn't miss my IEMs. Almost convinced that buds can be very very good


----------



## handwander (Nov 17, 2018)

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/f308040179

pricey

Also someone buy this. For me.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/diy...-MMCX-female-seat-8-share-7N/32950062232.html


----------



## nhlean96

GrassFed said:


> Got me some Snow Lotuses here https://www.amazon.com/FAAEAL-Snow-lotus-Earphone-Earphones-Transparent/dp/B07BQ1M8N5/ref=sr_1_10. What's the difference between 1.0 and 1.0+?
> They're very good, quite worthy of the hype train here. Mid and bass are somewhat thicker than I'd like, but vocal sounds great. Almost didn't miss my IEMs. Almost convinced that buds can be very very good


I read that the 1.0+ offer more detailed, brighter sound. I also prefer the braided cable of 1.0+ to the twisted cable of 1.0
Glad to hear you like the 1.0, they're beast at their own price range


----------



## GrassFed

nhlean96 said:


> I read that the 1.0+ offer more detailed, brighter sound. I also prefer the braided cable of 1.0+ to the twisted cable of 1.0
> Glad to hear you like the 1.0, they're beast at their own price range


With stock foam they do sound a bit veiled. I switched to generic ones that I cut out a hole in the middle. Very happy with the clarity improvement.


----------



## handwander




----------



## mbwilson111

handwander said:


>



Wow.  I wonder what they sound like...and I wonder what the price is.


----------



## Danneq

mbwilson111 said:


> Wow.  I wonder what they sound like...and I wonder what the price is.



A little over 7000 yen.

I used to own the older version, without the "Mx" at the end of the name. While they looked very nice the sound was fairly unspectacular. Not too much bass and a very intimate soundstage that made the Shozy BK soundstage seem super wide and deep.

The Mx version might improve on that though.


----------



## maxxevv

Danneq said:


> A little over 7000 yen.
> 
> I used to own the older version, without the "Mx" at the end of the name. While they looked very nice the sound was fairly unspectacular. Not too much bass and a very intimate soundstage that made the Shozy BK soundstage seem super wide and deep.
> 
> The Mx version might improve on that though.



According to the chart behind, its fairly warm sounding, decent bass with fairly average everything else. From left and clockwise : "Energy", "Low Region", "Mid Region",  "High Region", "Resolving Ability",  "Sound Stage",  and the best at the bottom "Warmth".


----------



## j4100

Apparently my 11.11 EMXs500 and Snow Lotus plus and 2.5mm balanced version are in the country already. Most of the rest are still awaiting despatch!


----------



## chaiyuta

Luckily, I could get a last pair of "Miracle Diamond" in time. 
P.S. I heard that there is one international customer placed an order for this model. That guy (Mr. Randall) is a lucky guy to decide on the right thing.


----------



## RobinFood

chaiyuta said:


> Luckily, I could get a last pair of "Miracle Diamond" in time.
> P.S. I heard that there is one international customer placed an order for this model. That guy (Mr. Randall) is a lucky guy to decide on the right thing.



Well, don't keep us waiting! How do they sound?
They look absolutely beautiful!


----------



## DBaldock9

After mentioning that I had ordered the 40Ω VE Monk Lite (w/Android 3-Button Mic), and seeing various recommendations (here, and on the EA Facebook group) for getting the 120Ω version - I went ahead and ordered a set today.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Well VUNBUD Shipped! 
Hopefully they will arrive and be wired correctly. 

So from those that have ordered from Rholupat, and live stateside : How long did it take to get to you?


----------



## waynes world (Nov 17, 2018)

DBaldock9 said:


> After mentioning that I had ordered the 40Ω VE Monk Lite (w/Android 3-Button Mic), and seeing various recommendations (here, and on the EA Facebook group) for getting the 120Ω version - I went ahead and ordered a set today.



Good stuff! They are pretty darned good, especially with some juice. And if you end up liking them, something along the same vein that I like even more are the FENGRU DIY PK1 2.5mm 150ohm (aka Linsoul 150) buds -  built specifically for your Walnut V3/F1 lol.

Actually, I don't know if you have the Walnut V3/F1, and I don't know why they say that. But I do know that you have the ES100, and the PK1 sound great off of it (balanced).


----------



## chaiyuta

RobinFood said:


> Well, don't keep us waiting! How do they sound?
> They look absolutely beautiful!



my last pair of Miracle Diamond Brief impression
Physical Size : smaller than typical MX500 shell, measured by a digital caliper the front cover diameter is 16.10 mm.
SQ in my opinion : Unlike a demo unit I tried 4 months ago, Mine is 3D Vast soundstage with top-notch detail retrieval among earbuds stuff. (You might text search 'Miracle' in this thread to find my previous Miracle Diamond brief impression.)

Brand Owner Background
Mr. Ssp (Miracle brand owner) is one of Burn-in specialist. He said that both a demo unit and mine is exactly whole same component with different his special confidential burn-in method. Apart from Burn-in drama around here, If you have a chance to try A/B likes me, your understanding in burn-in will be changed. 
Mr. Ssp was one behind SQ tuning (a.k.a Co-developer) on some reputable brand on a certain model e.g. Shozy, HUM, Raphsodio, etc. Currently he only collaborates with Raphosodio on the under developing 1DD IEM. He earns money by his main job. Making IEM, Earbuds or DAP mod is his hobby. He cares his brand awareness so much. Resulting that he never spam such marketing post in FB group. He believes that if his product is great enough, people who meet him and try his product will recommend others~. The first model is Miracle Ref1 (sold-out and discontinued), Second is Miracle Diamond (sold-out and discontinued), Special model is Miracle Ref1 Supreme (already sold-out, about 3-4 limited pairs), The third model is under developing will be released in Q1 2019. A few people already placed pre-order on the next model with know nothing what its appearance and sound will be.

You can further use text search 'miracle' inside Earbuds Anonymous group, or ThaiHeadphone Club group to check other feedback. In EA group, Mr. Tiyatat's comments is nice to read.


----------



## miroslav

snip3r77 said:


> Houston we have a problem



This is so sad. It was only a few months ago when I couldn't find any comments about these and decided to order them almost in blind faith and now they're gone. I'll have to take extra care about my pair from now on.

Any idea on the replacement model in Faaeal's line-up? Perhaps the 1.0 are now upgraded?


----------



## TheoS53

Hey guys, I feel like jumping into the earbud pool again, so looking for a few recommendations on which ones to order off AliExpress. So far I'm considering these, which are your favourites, and if you've got any other recommendations, then please go ahead and pass them to me. 


**** DIY EMX500
RY4S
FAAEAL Snow Lotus 2.0

Qian39

Yincrow X6

**** DIY Vido

FAAEAL Snow Lotus 1.0

Qian25

FAAEAL Iris 2.0

RY04

RY4X

**** DIY EMX500 PK2

FAAEAL Iris 1.0


----------



## seanc6441

TheoS53 said:


> Hey guys, I feel like jumping into the earbud pool again, so looking for a few recommendations on which ones to order off AliExpress. So far I'm considering these, which are your favourites, and if you've got any other recommendations, then please go ahead and pass them to me.
> 
> 
> **** DIY EMX500
> ...


X6 and vido are assumed to be the same driver. Cannot confirm that though.

I like the EMX500, RY4S UE and while I have not heard the snow lotus it seems like one to go for.


----------



## fairx

Snow lotus 1.0+ really that great? How are hey compared the new star ry4s UE? 

Just need some push since local dealer still stock them in my country..


----------



## RodRevenge

snip3r77 said:


> Houston we have a problem


Bye to my designated gym bud... that sucks i was planning even to buy a backup...


----------



## chinmie

RodRevenge said:


> Bye to my designated gym bud... that sucks i was planning even to buy a backup...



i don't dare use any of my earbuds for gym and other sports...i fear sweating would kill them quickly. i prefer using sport specific and sweat resistant earphones instead


----------



## RodRevenge

chinmie said:


> i don't dare use any of my earbuds for gym and other sports...i fear sweating would kill them quickly. i prefer using sport specific and sweat resistant earphones instead


I used the SL 1.0+ because they were cheap and nice sounding, i have been using them for that purpose for a year now and they still work perfectly fine, maybe i don't sweat that much.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Everybody talking nonstop about Snow Lotus 1+, but nothing about 2.0? What the diffferance? 1+ is the best tuning for most people?


----------



## Willber

seanc6441 said:


> X6 and vido are assumed to be the same driver. Cannot confirm that though.
> 
> I like the EMX500, RY4S UE and while I have not heard the snow lotus it seems like one to go for.


I find the X6 is a bit smoother while the Vido is punchier with more texture. Not a lot between them, though - I like them both.

The Snow Lotus 1.0 is NOT worth getting from my experience - woolly and muddy to my ears.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> The Snow Lotus 1.0 is NOT worth getting from my experience - woolly and muddy to my ears.



But people are loving the Snow Lotus 1.0+   including me.  It has a nice big balanced sound to me.  I have not tried to a/b compare it with anything.  I just know that when I start using it I end up listening to five albums  Knowing that I will be unable to replace it means that I will just have to be extra careful with it.  I am very careful with things anyway.  So far nothing has been broken...by me...


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> But people are loving the Snow Lotus 1.0+


I know, but the version we were talking about was 1.0. The 1.0+ doesn't seem to be generally available any more.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> I know, but the version we were talking about was 1.0. The 1.0+ doesn't seem to be generally available any more.



People were talking about the 1.0+ in the posts just above on this page.

Too many choices.


----------



## Willber (Nov 18, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> People were talking about the 1.0+ in the posts just above on this page.
> 
> Too many choices.


This is the post Sean replied to which prompted my response:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2513#post-14605296

I don't think the 1.0+ is any longer a choice, unfortunately. I intended to buy it but pushed the 1.0 button by mistake.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> This is the post Sean replied to which prompted my response:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2513#post-14605296
> 
> I don't think the 1.0+ is any longer a choice, unfortunately



I know... it is easy to loose the flow in such a fast moving thead.  It seems that the 1.0+ is still an option for some.  @fairx said they are still available in his country at the local dealer!  Maybe he should buy them all and sell them to fellow headfiers!


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> I know... it is easy to loose the flow in such a fast moving thead.  It seems that the 1.0+ is still an option for some.  @fairx said they are still available in his country at the local dealer!  Maybe he should buy them all and sell them to fellow headfiers!


I edited my post while you were writing to explain why I don't have the 1.0+! In actual fact my eyes were drawn to the clear shells so I didn't read things properly. 

If someone wants to redistribute them on here, I'm in!


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 18, 2018)

Willber said:


> I edited my post while you were writing to explain why I don't have the 1.0+! In actual fact my eyes were drawn to the clear shells so I didn't read things properly.
> 
> If someone wants to redistribute them on here, I'm in!



The Snow Lotus+ only comes in the silver or blue shells.  Mine is the silver.

So, you pushed the wrong button because you liked the clear... there other nice choices for  clear ones.  Now I remember you saying you had gotten the 1.0 by mistake.

Meanwhile I am waiting for those Sony E808+that you like.  The will need to be recabled though.  No J cable for me!  Ordered two pairs in case there is a soldering accident  If everything is successful my husband and I will each have a pair if he wants one of them.

I have set aside a purple cable for mine...


----------



## silverfishla

TheoS53 said:


> Hey guys, I feel like jumping into the earbud pool again, so looking for a few recommendations on which ones to order off AliExpress. So far I'm considering these, which are your favourites, and if you've got any other recommendations, then please go ahead and pass them to me.
> 
> 
> **** DIY EMX500
> ...


Whoa! Easy!


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> Meanwhile I am waiting for those Sony E808+that you like.  The will need to be recabled though.  No J cable for me!  Ordered two pairs in case there is a soldering accident  If everything is successful my husband and I will each have a pair if he wants one of them.
> 
> I have set aside a purple cable for mine...


I hope you like them, but remember - they DO need burning in, more than any others in my collection. I have bought three pairs and each one has changed over time. About 20-30 hours of normal listening was about right for me.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> I hope you like them, but remember - they DO need burning in, more than any others in my collection. I have bought three pairs and each one has changed over time. About 20-30 hours of normal listening was about right for me.



Don't worry, I will like them.  I trust your ears   I burn in everything just in case.  Personally I cannot say I have noticed a difference but that does not mean there wasn't one.  I just don't specifically listen for that type of thing.  I just get into the music.. unless something is actually horrible.


----------



## fairx (Nov 18, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I know... it is easy to loose the flow in such a fast moving thead.  It seems that the 1.0+ is still an option for some.  @fairx said they are still available in his country at the local dealer!  Maybe he should buy them all and sell them to fellow headfiers!


I'm expecting small windfall this week then I might order the 1.0+. And yes they came in silver and blue. Only 4 stock still available.

Sure I might be able to help procure it but I'm not sure about sending it overseas. The shipping might be more expensive than the bud itself.


----------



## GrassFed

My Lotus 1.0 sounds fantastic. It's mid centric, but not lacking bass and treble in anyway. Vocal is very prominent in a spacious sound stage. I like donut foam on it. If treble clarity is important, the Qian69 is a great contender. Vocal won't be as forward as the Lotus 1.0 though.


----------



## mbwilson111

fairx said:


> I'm expecting small windfall this week then I might order the 1.0+. And yes they came in silver and blue. Only 4 stock still available.
> 
> Sure I might be able to help procure it but I'm not sure about sending it overseas. The shipping might be more expensive than the bud itself.



Yes, the shipping of my Willsound and my Blur from Asia was expensive... I cannot remember the exact amount but probably more than the cost of an inexpensive bud like the Snow Lotus.

Maybe you should get two for yourself



GrassFed said:


> My Lotus 1.0 sounds fantastic. It's mid centric, but not lacking bass and treble in anyway



Tempted to try it just to see....


----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> Good stuff! They are pretty darned good, especially with some juice. And if you end up liking them, something along the same vein that I like even more are the FENGRU DIY PK1 2.5mm 150ohm (aka Linsoul 150) buds -  built specifically for your Walnut V3/F1 lol.
> 
> Actually, I don't know if you have the Walnut V3/F1, and I don't know why they say that. But I do know that you have the ES100, and the PK1 sound great off of it (balanced).



I do have a Walnut v2 (currently disassembled, planning to upgrade parts) and an F1 (currently top off and battery out, with Sparkos SS3602 installed - used mainly with FiiO Taishan D03K DAC, as my Balanced "home" amp).
.
There is one issue with the Monk Lite w/Android 3-Button Mic that I previously ordered - the Mic doesn't work.  When playing music on my LG V30, the Play/Pause & Vol+/Vol- buttons work fine, but when used for a phone call - I can hear the other person, but all they hear from my phone is a very loud noise.
.
Since the Button/Mic housing became damaged when I opened it to check the circuit board for shorts/opens, I was thinking of re-cabling that set - but it seems like the fronts are very securely attached to the shells. Is there a lot of glue used in the assembly of the Monk Lites?  Am I going to have to employ hot air to disassemble the earbuds - and how likely is it that they'll go back together?
.
Thanks for any insights!


----------



## TheoS53

seanc6441 said:


> X6 and vido are assumed to be the same driver. Cannot confirm that though.
> 
> I like the EMX500, RY4S UE and while I have not heard the snow lotus it seems like one to go for.





Willber said:


> I find the X6 is a bit smoother while the Vido is punchier with more texture. Not a lot between them, though - I like them both.
> 
> The Snow Lotus 1.0 is NOT worth getting from my experience - woolly and muddy to my ears.





silverfishla said:


> Whoa! Easy!





GrassFed said:


> My Lotus 1.0 sounds fantastic. It's mid centric, but not lacking bass and treble in anyway. Vocal is very prominent in a spacious sound stage. I like donut foam on it. If treble clarity is important, the Qian69 is a great contender. Vocal won't be as forward as the Lotus 1.0 though.



Thanks for your input guys, much appreciated. 

I actually only recently decided to use my Monk+ buds again, and after swapping the donut foams for full foams and using the "Headphone" EQ preset on the Shanling M0, I was genuinely surprised how much I actually liked the sound. It seems balanced, with just the right sparkle and low end presence. No, it's obviously not amazing bass and you can hear that it tends to rumble a bit out of control, but for a budget setup I'm really liking it. So this prompted me to try out a bunch of buds to see what I can use as an upgrade from the Monk+. Ideally something that I don't have to EQ.


----------



## csglinux

TheoS53 said:


> Thanks for your input guys, much appreciated.
> 
> I actually only recently decided to use my Monk+ buds again, and after swapping the donut foams for full foams and using the "Headphone" EQ preset on the Shanling M0, I was genuinely surprised how much I actually liked the sound. It seems balanced, with just the right sparkle and low end presence. No, it's obviously not amazing bass and you can hear that it tends to rumble a bit out of control, but for a budget setup I'm really liking it. So this prompted me to try out a bunch of buds to see what I can use as an upgrade from the Monk+. Ideally something that I don't have to EQ.



Hi @TheoS53! Try the Shozy BK with your M0. With no EQ  They're still my favorite earbuds, despite lots and lots of searching. They're a huge step-up from the Monks, IMHO.

BTW, here's a question to everybody else here _other than_ @seanc6441. (Sean - don't take this personally, it's just that I know you parted with your BKs and we have different tastes!) For anybody else that's ever owned the Shozy BKs, what's an upgrade to these? And why?


----------



## mochill

Story stardust blue edition,  more extension and texture.


----------



## TheoS53

csglinux said:


> Hi @TheoS53! Try the Shozy BK with your M0. With no EQ  They're still my favorite earbuds, despite lots and lots of searching. They're a huge step-up from the Monks, IMHO.
> 
> BTW, here's a question to everybody else here _other than_ @seanc6441. (Sean - don't take this personally, it's just that I know you parted with your BKs and we have different tastes!) For anybody else that's ever owned the Shozy BKs, what's an upgrade to these? And why?



Thanks for your suggestion, but unfortunately that's way more than what I'm willing to pay for a set of buds (at least for now that is), especially considering that I'd be blind buying them. 
A year or 2 ago there was a bit of a rage with the TY HI-Z HP150s, and so i bought into the hype but was left bitterly disappointed. They were so incredibly bright, not even close to something which can even remotely be considered to accurately represent the audio signal.


----------



## Zerohour88

TheoS53 said:


> Thanks for your suggestion, but unfortunately that's way more than what I'm willing to pay for a set of buds (at least for now that is), especially considering that I'd be blind buying them.
> A year or 2 ago there was a bit of a rage with the TY HI-Z HP150s, and so i bought into the hype but was left bitterly disappointed. They were so incredibly bright, not even close to something which can even remotely be considered to accurately represent the audio signal.



quick question, your HP150s was the first one (normal plug) or the MKII (fancier plug)?


----------



## TheoS53

Zerohour88 said:


> quick question, your HP150s was the first one (normal plug) or the MKII (fancier plug)?



eeerm, not sure. It had a gold-plated point, the the connector housing was silver and carbon


----------



## Zerohour88

TheoS53 said:


> eeerm, not sure. It had a gold-plated point, the the connector housing was silver and carbon



this plug then? aww, that's probably the MKII then


----------



## TheoS53

Zerohour88 said:


> this plug then? aww, that's probably the MKII then



Yup, that's the one. I wouldn't have thought of that as being the MKII connector as I purchased the 150s not long after they were released. 
Anyways, the only way I could get them to sound tolerable was to modify them a bit. I did post pics in this thread of what I did.


----------



## GrassFed

mbwilson111 said:


> Tempted to try it just to see....


Could a different cable really affect the sound that much? I doubt they'd spend the effort to retune a $10 bud just because of the cable. But I'm curious as well. On the other hand, that $10 might be better spent toward a Lotus 2.0, or a Rosemary.


----------



## chaiyuta

csglinux said:


> Hi @TheoS53! Try the Shozy BK with your M0. With no EQ  They're still my favorite earbuds, despite lots and lots of searching. They're a huge step-up from the Monks, IMHO.
> 
> BTW, here's a question to everybody else here _other than_ @seanc6441. (Sean - don't take this personally, it's just that I know you parted with your BKs and we have different tastes!) For anybody else that's ever owned the Shozy BKs, what's an upgrade to these? And why?


Personally I prefer Kinera earbuds limited over shozy BK cause Kinera is relatively brighter but still neutral with a hint of warm tonality. Relatively smaller-bodied vocal image with nicer vocal extension. For upgrade, I advise super kryptonite 32 Ohm or PHRAKAR 185 Ohm.


----------



## golov17

chaiyuta said:


> Personally I prefer Kinera earbuds limited over shozy BK cause Kinera is relatively brighter but still neutral with a hint of warm tonality. Relatively smaller-bodied vocal image with nicer vocal extension. For upgrade, I advise super kryptonite 32 Ohm or PHRAKAR 185 Ohm.


Btw, ordered Obelisk now..


----------



## j4100

Back to my comment about my 11.11 orders. I now have my EMXs500 from AK Audio and FAAEAL 1.0+ and balanced version (in a nice little tin) from FAAEAL. Most of the rest are still awaiting despatch! Goes to show it shouldn't take a month to ship a pair of buds from China to UK.


----------



## chaiyuta

Today UCOTECH announced the release date of ES-P1 which is 29 November 2018. I did Google translate on the ES-P1 embedded article photos from Korea to English, Here.


----------



## mbwilson111

GrassFed said:


> Could a different cable really affect the sound that much? I doubt they'd spend the effort to retune a $10 bud just because of the cable. But I'm curious as well. On the other hand, that $10 might be better spent toward a Lotus 2.0, or a Rosemary.


 
What color is your 1.0?  Thinking about trying the grey (smoke) one.  I do have the Rosemary which has a clear shell.  It is very nice.


----------



## mochill

golov17 said:


> Btw, ordered Obelisk now..


What is it


----------



## golov17

mochill said:


> What is it


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=497091074122848&id=401481307017159


----------



## chaiyuta

mochill said:


> What is it


https://www.facebook.com/ObeliskAudio/


----------



## j4100

j4100 said:


> Back to my comment about my 11.11 orders. I now have my EMXs500 from AK Audio and FAAEAL 1.0+ and balanced version (in a nice little tin) from FAAEAL. Most of the rest are still awaiting despatch! Goes to show it shouldn't take a month to ship a pair of buds from China to UK.



...and some photos. Like the FAAEAL bags.


----------



## bhima

csglinux said:


> Hi @TheoS53! Try the Shozy BK with your M0. With no EQ  They're still my favorite earbuds, despite lots and lots of searching. They're a huge step-up from the Monks, IMHO.
> 
> BTW, here's a question to everybody else here _other than_ @seanc6441. (Sean - don't take this personally, it's just that I know you parted with your BKs and we have different tastes!) For anybody else that's ever owned the Shozy BKs, what's an upgrade to these? And why?



Its looking like the Moonbuds Heron might be a slight upgrade to the Shozy BK. They are the ones I've been eyeing. I really like the BKs, but they can get a bit shouty. Their timbre is excellent though as is their balance of musical/analytical and their mids.


----------



## waynes world

TheoS53 said:


> Thanks for your suggestion, but unfortunately that's way more than what I'm willing to pay for a set of buds (at least for now that is), especially considering that I'd be blind buying them.
> A year or 2 ago there was a bit of a rage with the TY HI-Z HP150s, and so i bought into the hype but was left bitterly disappointed. They were so incredibly bright, not even close to something which can even remotely be considered to accurately represent the audio signal.



I am surprised to hear that, considering their involvement in the original Monk and Zen 1.0's (which are not bright).



GrassFed said:


> Could a different cable really affect the sound that much? I doubt they'd spend the effort to retune a $10 bud just because of the cable. But I'm curious as well. On the other hand, that $10 might be better spent toward a Lotus 2.0, or a Rosemary.



One thing to be aware of with the Snow Lotus 2.0 is that the cable is very thick. I use a shirt clip, and the cable keeps popping the buds out of my ears


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> Back to my comment about my 11.11 orders. I now have my EMXs500 from AK Audio and FAAEAL 1.0+ and balanced version (in a nice little tin) from FAAEAL. Most of the rest are still awaiting despatch! Goes to show it shouldn't take a month to ship a pair of buds from China to UK.



There is a balanced Faaeal?


----------



## Marcos Fontana

TheoS53 said:


> Thanks for your suggestion, but unfortunately that's way more than what I'm willing to pay for a set of buds (at least for now that is), especially considering that I'd be blind buying them.
> A year or 2 ago there was a bit of a rage with the TY HI-Z HP150s, and so i bought into the hype but was left bitterly disappointed. They were so incredibly bright, not even close to something which can even remotely be considered to accurately represent the audio signal.


OMG, I got one and I'm in love with it. It's has more treble than Zen2 but not too much as you said. Very strange!


----------



## TheoS53

Marcos Fontana said:


> OMG, I got one and I'm in love with it. It's has more treble than Zen2 but not too much as you said. Very strange!



It could just be that your ears have become accustomed to a brighter signature. 
It's for this specific reason that I have a set of RE-400 to help "reset" my hearing to a more neutral signature when doing comparisons and reviews.
It's pretty amazing just how much and how quickly our brains can adapt and filter certain things out... But at the same time it makes it rather difficult to stay consistent when reviewing products.


----------



## GrassFed

mbwilson111 said:


> What color is your 1.0?  Thinking about trying the grey (smoke) one.  I do have the Rosemary which has a clear shell.  It is very nice.


I went with a clear one


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> There is a balanced Faaeal?



Yeah.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...MP3-Player-Amplifier/2178200_32889629399.html


----------



## subwoof3r

Today I'm proud to bring life to two DIY EMX500's 










We can't see them but behind ali foams there is white grids so this is a "full white" mod 
On my second pair I used RY4S UE cable for them, but I prefer the cable I used on the black one.
Really loving them, not sure if it's due to the cable but I love the first one even better, is sounds just excellent to my ears: fun, vivid, energetic, very nice subbass and bass extension without any kind of bloat nor mids-bass bump, excellent details, large soundstage, nice mids presence, etc, they almost sound like a TOTL to me, so can't wait to receive my Blox YIN to make a compare for fun


----------



## waynes world

subwoof3r said:


> Today I'm proud to bring life to two DIY EMX500's
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very nice! Btw, since I am in a "complaining about cables" mood lol, I like to use shirt clips like these:

https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1t1lIQFXXXXbgXpXXq6xXFXXXC/****-Earphone-Accessories-Headphone-Earphone-Cable-Wire-Cord-Lapel-Collar-Clip-Nip-Clamp-Holder-Mount.jpg_640x640.jpg 

 and I find the RY4S UE cable strands are always falling out of the clip. Does anyone have a solution for this?

The best clip I've used (which broke) was the below jvc shirt clip that I got with some jvc iems. They would solve my problem, but I can't seem to find them anywhere (and I don't feel like buying more jvc iems lol):

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-devil-is-in-the-details-jvcs-new-iem-shirt-clip.494299/










Anyone with any ideas?


----------



## Matarro

waynes world said:


> Anyone with any ideas?



https://www.meeaudio.com/ShirtClip-P1-MEE/

This one is great, but pricey maybe. I got it with my P2.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

TheoS53 said:


> It could just be that your ears have become accustomed to a brighter signature.
> It's for this specific reason that I have a set of RE-400 to help "reset" my hearing to a more neutral signature when doing comparisons and reviews.
> It's pretty amazing just how much and how quickly our brains can adapt and filter certain things out... But at the same time it makes it rather difficult to stay consistent when reviewing products.


You are totally right!


----------



## waynes world

Matarro said:


> https://www.meeaudio.com/ShirtClip-P1-MEE/
> 
> This one is great, but pricey maybe. I got it with my P2.



Thanks. I'm used to getting 20 clips for $2, so that is a bit pricey! But, it does essentially look like what I'm after. I might have to get a few for my "problem" buds lol.


----------



## RobinFood

waynes world said:


> Very nice! Btw, since I am in a "complaining about cables" mood lol, I like to use shirt clips like these:
> 
> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1t1lIQFXXXXbgXpXXq6xXFXXXC/****-Earphone-Accessories-Headphone-Earphone-Cable-Wire-Cord-Lapel-Collar-Clip-Nip-Clamp-Holder-Mount.jpg_640x640.jpg
> 
> ...



I really like the shirt clip that came with the ER4XR and use it with just about all of my earbuds too when I need a clip. 
It doesn't clip to the wire, but rather latches onto the Y splitter.
Other clips I use always felt like they were going to either cut the wire or were way too loose, so I much prefer this.
You can also squeeze the grip part a little if it is too loose. Once again, a little pricey but it is my favorite shirt clip.

https://www.etymotic.com/er38-55-4sx.html


----------



## golov17

waynes world said:


> Very nice! Btw, since I am in a "complaining about cables" mood lol, I like to use shirt clips like these:
> 
> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1t1lIQFXXXXbgXpXXq6xXFXXXC/****-Earphone-Accessories-Headphone-Earphone-Cable-Wire-Cord-Lapel-Collar-Clip-Nip-Clamp-Holder-Mount.jpg_640x640.jpg
> 
> ...


5pcs/lot cable clips Collar Clip for headphone Rotating Clamps for headphones headset clamp earphone accessories
http://s.aliexpress.com/7JFbY3ym


----------



## Zerohour88

waynes world said:


> Very nice! Btw, since I am in a "complaining about cables" mood lol, I like to use shirt clips like these:
> 
> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1t1lIQFXXXXbgXpXXq6xXFXXXC/****-Earphone-Accessories-Headphone-Earphone-Cable-Wire-Cord-Lapel-Collar-Clip-Nip-Clamp-Holder-Mount.jpg_640x640.jpg
> 
> ...



a friend really likes the penon clip
https://penonaudio.com/cable-shirt-clip.html


----------



## HungryPanda

I have a little drawer full of shirt clips as the only earbud I have ever used one with is the Snow Lotus 2


----------



## RobinFood

Zerohour88 said:


> a friend really likes the penon clip
> https://penonaudio.com/cable-shirt-clip.html



That is an awesome clip design...I'm trying to decide if it would bug me that the cables are literally being pinched all the time


----------



## seanc6441

RobinFood said:


> That is an awesome clip design...I'm trying to decide if it would bug me that the cables are literally being pinched all the time


The ones that don't pinch never hold, you are fighting physics and gravity after like 5 minutes when the cable keeps slipping and the clip gets yanked off.

This one looks pretty decent, although I wont use them myself.


----------



## subwoof3r

Just received my *Blox YIN* today ! (was fast! sent 14th and received today 20th to France!)

Quick impression right OOTB :
*physically* : they looks absolutely identical to TM9 (shares same plug, cable, housing, and still delivered with VE thin foams, but in blue this time, same box and same case. The only difference is the very small black heatshrink upper the longest transparent one, maybe to recognize TM9 and *YIN?).
sound* : At the beginning they sounded almost same as my previous TM9, but I was wrong, there is definitely an improvement. They are much less laid-back, much more details in mids and highs which are this time more forwarded, while keeping the same bass texture and extension (it sems even better more controlled now). They are still sounding quite transparent and natural, with a rare precision. Soundstage looks the same, but I feel like it is even slightly more deep now.
Now I'm sure this YIN is the real TOTL from Blox that some of you were waiting for. I really feel like listening a ful headphone now. Incredible experience.
There is much thing to talk about sound, so I will try to sum-up all of this part in a proper review soon, and of course as always, after a full proper burning 
But definitely, my EMX500 mod is already blasted compared to YIN (without any surprise..) 
'laters


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> The ones that don't pinch never hold, you are fighting physics and gravity after like 5 minutes when the cable keeps slipping and the clip gets yanked off.
> 
> This one looks pretty decent, although I wont use them myself.



put a small tape below the cable clip to prevent the slipping


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> put a small tape below the cable clip to prevent the slipping


If I used them that would actually be a clever idea.


 I like to let the cable flow with the wind


----------



## seanc6441

subwoof3r said:


> Just received my *Blox YIN* today ! (was fast! sent 14th and received today 20th to France!)
> 
> Quick impression right OOTB :
> *physically* : they looks absolutely identical to TM9 (shares same plug, cable, housing, and still delivered with VE thin foams, but in blue this time, same box and same case. The only difference is the very small black heatshrink upper the longest transparent one, maybe to recognize TM9 and *YIN?).
> ...


Can you confirm for me if the Yin has the second bass port open in the shell stem.

Tm9 has both open, leading to a more emphasised sub bass but looser overall bass response, it would also effect the balance and thus sound more laid back.

It's possible that the yin is just a retuned TM9. I mean, blox spent how long developing the tm9 and they whip up a new Yin earbud in mere weeks-months?


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> If I used them that would actually be a clever idea.
> 
> 
> I like to let the cable flow with the wind



I have a bucket full of unused clips.


----------



## HeadlessChicken

the haul from 11.11 has arrived! well the important bits at least, the earbuds! props to the sellers of the EB2 and Linsoul BLD 150ohm on AE for fast shipping


----------



## subwoof3r

seanc6441 said:


> Can you confirm for me if the Yin has the second bass port open in the shell stem.
> 
> Tm9 has both open, leading to a more emphasised sub bass but looser overall bass response, it would also effect the balance and thus sound more laid back.
> 
> It's possible that the yin is just a retuned TM9. I mean, blox spent how long developing the tm9 and they whip up a new Yin earbud in mere weeks-months?


Can you please tell me where exactly I need to check this ? (maybe via image?) I will check this.
At first sight, they sounds similar to TM9 so maybe it's just a quick tune like this. Just need to confirm.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 20, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> Can you please tell me where exactly I need to check this ? (maybe via image?) I will check this.
> At first sight, they sounds similar to TM9 so maybe it's just a quick tune like this. Just need to confirm.


Inside this vent there will be an opening at the other end (a small 1-3mm hole) which you can see if you shine your phone's flashlight into the vent.

This is the bass port that runs parallel to the cable port. Most earbuds have it closed and let the cable port as as venting also, but some open it up.

If you make mmcx mx500 shell buds you need to open it up to retain the original sound since the cable port is now sealed.

For tm9 both are open meaning it's easy to generate sub bass even with thin foam, but the downside is the bass will sound a hit looser since its less restricted airflow its allowing the driver to give its maximum bass potential.




This is why the tm9 sounds so open. If you close it like most buds it will sound brighter but the tonality will be effected. So if tm9 driver was tuned for maximun 'open venting' it will sound more like an open back headphone, but if the is closed and another tuning factor changed it may change the sound profile.


----------



## waynes world

Thanks @RobinFood and @golov17 



Zerohour88 said:


> a friend really likes the penon clip
> https://penonaudio.com/cable-shirt-clip.html



That one looks like it will work for me well, and the price is reasonable. Thanks!


----------



## FastAndClean

How about sunrise dragon 2?
89$ at Penon right now


----------



## Themilkman46290

My 11.11 choices have seemed to fall apart, I guess I won't be getting my ty hiz hp320, or seahf 400 ohm, feel disappointed, stay away for store "beteran" at first had problem shipping, then sent me a weird tracking number, after I paid for DHL, no turns out he has not sent anything and tells me I need to pay more, I think I will simply cancel my order, any one try yaoyaotiger?


----------



## fairx

Do you think UE cable have  impact on SQ?

Also curious on how do you open up ry4s shell? I tried prying it with bare hand to no success.


subwoof3r said:


> Today I'm proud to bring life to two DIY EMX500's
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## j4100

Themilkman46290 said:


> My 11.11 choices have seemed to fall apart, I guess I won't be getting my ty hiz hp320, or seahf 400 ohm, feel disappointed, stay away for store "beteran" at first had problem shipping, then sent me a weird tracking number, after I paid for DHL, no turns out he has not sent anything and tells me I need to pay more, I think I will simply cancel my order, any one try yaoyaotiger?



I haven't bought from either of those stores, but Penon are well regarded and have the HP320. They also have Black Friday discounts coming up.


----------



## Themilkman46290

Yeah, I heard penon is good but they seem to use local shipping, Wich in my country is literally run by thieves, so I don't want to risk it


----------



## subwoof3r (Nov 20, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> For tm9 both are open meaning it's easy to generate sub bass even with thin foam, but the downside is the bass will sound a hit looser since its less restricted airflow its allowing the driver to give its maximum bass potential.
> This is why the tm9 sounds so open. If you close it like most buds it will sound brighter but the tonality will be effected. So if tm9 driver was tuned for maximun 'open venting' it will sound more like an open back headphone, but if the is closed and another tuning factor changed it may change the sound profile.


Ok just got back to home to check.
Can you tell me by how much the hole is on your TM9 ? I checked on YIN and I can see a very very tiny hole (high precision manufacturing, for sure).
I checked on my old EMX500S shells and it looks having a bit the same tiny hole, this could explain the known high potential EMX500S in bass and subbass domain I guess?
I checked on my EMX500 white shells and there is absolutely no hole at all.
Personally I don't think such tiny hole makes sound so changing on YIN compared to TM9, but this could be very interesting. Unfortunately I can't take a photo as it's very difficult to do so.
This hole (if understand well) is joining the cable storage/knots space? if so, on the EMX500S shells it does not join, so I guess it's like a hole try but which finally is not really a hole at all from the other side. Unfortunately I won't try opening my YIN to verify that point 



fairx said:


> Do you think UE cable have  impact on SQ?
> Also curious on how do you open up ry4s shell? I tried prying it with bare hand to no success.


Well, not sure if it's the cable, for now I think so, but the EMX500 with RY4S UE cable was my first attempt, the second EMX500 I did (which sounds better), I have better soldering skills now so not sure if it's due to this or the drivers themselves (as I bought 5 pairs of drivers on ali) 
I will do in the next days a drivers swap to really confirm that.
I'm using this tool to open EMX500 shells (and every other shells) with ease : https://www.ebay.fr/itm/ESD-13-Prec...Repair-Tool-Stainless-Steel-T67-/222642612061
You just need to be a bit careful and not using much force (because it ruined my RY4S, EMX500S and GM500, lol).


----------



## rkw

seanc6441 said:


> It's possible that the yin is just a retuned TM9.


Blox has said explicitly that YIN has a new driver. BTW, I ordered one and it is enroute.


----------



## rkw

Themilkman46290 said:


> Yeah, I heard penon is good but they seem to use local shipping, Wich in my country is literally run by thieves, so I don't want to risk it


Contact Penon and ask if they can arrange alternative shipping methods.


----------



## HungryPanda (Nov 20, 2018)

I had a good afternoon, recabled 2 Sony MDR-E808+, 1 Sony Ericsson HPM-64, 1 DIY PK2 SR2 PRO 16ohm and created from scratch an earbud using EMX500 drivers (I'm calling it a HungryPanda DIY EMX500)


----------



## subwoof3r

I really like how Woo quick described his new YIN model, because this is exactly how I feel compared to TM9  :

_"Clarity is topnotch and high extend so well,details are better while they are not bright and maintain smoothness well.they are more engaging for sure due to better clarity,more weight of impact and better speed,bass also improved with deeper,hit harder and cleaner texture. sound stage similar to TM9"_


----------



## subwoof3r

@mochill, you need YIN !!


----------



## mochill

subwoof3r said:


> @mochill, you need YIN !!


I know I do,  now I just need the money


----------



## Father Schu

FastAndClean said:


> How about sunrise dragon 2?
> 89$ at Penon right now



ClieOS said: "SWD2 is the old model made by Sunrise (which already change its name to Simphonio a few months ago) about 6 yrs ago. It is still a very good earbud by today's standard, but not on the same level as the ToTL SWD2+."

So it depends on what you want -  Very Good or TOTL for another $200 something (or Massdrop for $200+ ship/tax if they have another drop)?

Also, Simphonio Dragon3 is coming . . .


----------



## euge

mochill said:


> I know I do,  now I just need the money



He might be willing to do a swap for you, he did for me but my tm9 started rattling on the left side just when the yin was ready.


----------



## drawun

Just wondering. Anyone ordered RY4S from Ali during 11.11? Mine still on "shipment ready for dispatch"


----------



## redkingjoe

drawun said:


> Just wondering. Anyone ordered RY4S from Ali during 11.11? Mine still on "shipment ready for dispatch"



11.11 shipments are really the worst in the year. 

The shipping company simply can’t cope with it!


----------



## drawun

redkingjoe said:


> 11.11 shipments are really the worst in the year.
> 
> The shipping company simply can’t cope with it!


Yeah pretty slow. My other purchase(foam tips) is already "departed country of origin" today though. 
But these are on free shipping anyway . Guess can't complain much on that.


----------



## ShabtabQ

drawun said:


> Just wondering. Anyone ordered RY4S from Ali during 11.11? Mine still on "shipment ready for dispatch"


I ordered and for some reason It cannot be tracked using 17track or the Singapore post website, Aliexpress shows shipment accepted by airline, still waiting for any updates, did you try contacting them, keep me posted too.


----------



## Themilkman46290

rkw said:


> Contact Penon and ask if they can arrange alternative shipping methods.


Yeah I talked to them but there express price is almost double the average, guess I am out of luck


----------



## redkingjoe

If you guys checked the internet, there’s a lot of 11.11 photos and videos on the goods in the godown of the shipping firms.

These goods are just like garbage waiting to be burned!


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 21, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Meanwhile I am waiting for those Sony E808+that you like. The will need to be recabled though. No J cable for me! Ordered two pairs in case there is a soldering accident If everything is successful my husband and I will each have a pair if he wants one of them.





Willber said:


> I hope you like them, but remember - they DO need burning in, more than any others in my collection. I have bought three pairs and each one has changed over time. About 20-30 hours of normal listening was about right for me.



The 2 pairs of Sony E808+ arrived yesterday along with some supplies that my husband had bought for building buds and recabling projects.  So a few hours after arrival they were both recabled.  As you suggested mine have been attached to my computer for burning in since last night.    They sound great!  Thanks for the recommendation and thanks to @HungryPanda for the nice recabling work. I think he also likes his 808+ .

Here they are with their nice new cable. The different color wires going to each side will make it much easier to tell right from left.  I could never have used these with the stock J cable!


----------



## drawun

ShabtabQ said:


> I ordered and for some reason It cannot be tracked using 17track or the Singapore post website, Aliexpress shows shipment accepted by airline, still waiting for any updates, did you try contacting them, keep me posted too.


Yes but considering mine hasn't dispatched yet it's not that odd it can't be tracked. 

They even put a warning about delay shipment on top of the tracking page of the order(on app).


----------



## j4100

Yeah, 11.11 shipping can be hit or miss. This year I already have 2 packets (FAAEAL and AK Audio), but still have 2 packets which have just shown as departed country of origin and 2 still in China. Patience is required for 11.11 purchases.


----------



## Themilkman46290

Well most my packages won't ship, already started 2 disputes, waiting on the 3rd, seems only penon has shipped but soon it will meet with Ukrainian thieves/postal service, it's a 50/50 chance from there, I have lost 6 out of 9 packages through our lovely postal service that always tell the sellers items were all ready picked up by myself, then tell me it was "lost in the system" it isn't right, if I specifically payed for DHL shipping why do they send with 4px?


----------



## HungryPanda

I just got a shipment cancelled notification on one of my 11:11 items, contacted seller and got the old "item lost in standard aliexpress shipping" then " is it okay to send free replacement?"


----------



## Themilkman46290

I guess it's my first and last time shopping  on 11.11, don't really see much point in trying it again, I would like to say, Ak audio store seems legit, they shipped 37 minutes after I ordered, and penon is great if you live in a safe country and don't need secure shipping


----------



## HungryPanda

I have only lost 1 item in several years, it arrived in my country and then never made it through customs.


----------



## Themilkman46290

HungryPanda said:


> I have only lost 1 item in several years, it arrived in my country and then never made it through customs.


Wish I could say the same


----------



## mochill

euge said:


> He might be willing to do a swap for you, he did for me but my tm9 started rattling on the left side just when the yin was ready.


But I like the TM9 and want to keep it to see how it matures with age like a fine piece of wine   I know earbuds need a lot of burning in.


----------



## j4100

HungryPanda said:


> I have only lost 1 item in several years, it arrived in my country and then never made it through customs.



Me too. It wasn't a cheap order either. Took ages to sort out. Arrived at Heathrow then disappeared into a black hole.


----------



## HungryPanda

Trouble is I knew it was from Singapore but could not remember what it was as I got so many orders over that month


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Themilkman46290 said:


> I guess it's my first and last time shopping  on 11.11, don't really see much point in trying it again, I would like to say, Ak audio store seems legit, they shipped 37 minutes after I ordered, and penon is great if you live in a safe country and don't need secure shipping


I order from AK all the time. Shipping can be a bit slow, but so far they have have been a great company. NiceHCK(my personal favorite) is a usually shipped out same day and Jim is always pretty quick to respond to questions.
Anyway, I have ordered stuff off ebay and payed for different shipping and received from different shipping then I paid for. Its either A. an honest mistake or an oversight or B. they gouged you for more money and went with cheaper option.

Anyway good luck. Postal here in the US is pretty horrible imo, but not because of stealing. The just seem to always deliver everyones mail to different places all over the neighborhood. Like all they hire now is effing illiterate morons that just stick whatever into wherever. LOL its very common to see people walking around our neighborhood with handfuls of other peoples mail, trying to deliver it. ridiculous


----------



## subwoof3r

HungryPanda said:


> I had a good afternoon, recabled 2 Sony MDR-E808+, 1 Sony Ericsson HPM-64, 1 DIY PK2 SR2 PRO 16ohm and created from scratch an earbud using EMX500 drivers (I'm calling it a HungryPanda DIY EMX500)


Everyone should have it's own EMX500 DIY 

Just received today both my MPS 3.5mm plugs and high quality silver and copper plated cables. Just need to wait for my transparent heatshrinks to let the fun begin..


----------



## HungryPanda

subwoof3r said:


> Everyone should have it's own EMX500 DIY
> 
> Just received today both my MPS 3.5mm plugs and high quality silver and copper plated cables. Just need to wait for my transparent heatshrinks to let the fun begin..


Nice, I'm just waiting on mmcx sockets to come and with my collection of shells, drivers, plugs and cables i will try to make earbuds with detachable cables


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 21, 2018)

@jogawag   I have a new cable on that DIY PK1 PK2 SR2 16 ohm bud that you recommended back in August.  The one with the really stiff cable.  I had burned it in but then did not use it much because of the cable being uncomfortably stiff.  Yesterday my husband @HungryPanda removed that cable... pictured below.  Look how out of control it is... lol.   He then attached the cable shown in the second photo.  Nice and soft and neat and sounds great.  He has the version coming that has that TPE cable that you later suggested.


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> I had a good afternoon, recabled 2 Sony MDR-E808+, 1 Sony Ericsson HPM-64, 1 DIY PK2 SR2 PRO 16ohm and created from scratch an earbud using EMX500 drivers (I'm calling it a HungryPanda DIY EMX500)



Sweet! It's a good think you're on the other side of the planet, otherwise I'd be buying you beers and trying to get you to do some recabling for me!

     <--- p.s. I'd buy you a bigger beer than that lol


----------



## rkw

seanc6441 said:


> I mean, blox spent how long developing the tm9 and they whip up a new Yin earbud in mere weeks-months?


I'm willing to give Blox the benefit of the doubt and presume that Yin was already being developed in parallel with (but trailing) the TM9.


----------



## HungryPanda

Beer and recabling don't mix very well


----------



## chinmie

rkw said:


> I'm willing to give Blox the benefit of the doubt and presume that Yin was already being developed in parallel with (but trailing) the TM9.



given that the infrequent release of their models, the Yin coming out so soon after the TM9 is a bit out of the ordinary, so i suspect the Yin only comes out because of a lot of critics about the TM9 lacks of engaging sound...


but of course this is just my thoughts, not the real truth


----------



## golov17

I already wrote that the Yin prototype was already at the time of release of the TM-9 ..


----------



## assassin10000 (Nov 22, 2018)

I've been digging through the site/google for a bit and was wondering if there are any recommended 'airpod' style buds (with MMCX connectors is a plus, I've got a BT10 on the way) that can be worn over ear?

I've been eyeing the **** PT25's since they have MMCX connectors and I can just flip sides to wear over ear.


----------



## subwoof3r

subwoof3r said:


> Woo told me that next year Blox will have some more new high end earbuds to offer *due to his whole new platform*, which is an excellent news!


Also, don't forget this..


----------



## Zerohour88

Finally got my NiceHCK EBX from the 11.11 sale and for the first time is struggling a bit with the fit of an earbud

I've just had a thought though. Aren't earbuds just practically little speakers resting on your ears? Unlike IEMs which were designed with proper seal in mind, can't we just jack up the volume to compensate for the lack of seal? Despite foams and whatnot, its not gonna be airtight either way.


----------



## subwoof3r

The fit is probably my biggest cons on EBX.
Depending on foams : it may tighten bass a bit more, so you may try this first and see.


----------



## seanc6441

Zerohour88 said:


> Finally got my NiceHCK EBX from the 11.11 sale and for the first time is struggling a bit with the fit of an earbud
> 
> I've just had a thought though. Aren't earbuds just practically little speakers resting on your ears? Unlike IEMs which were designed with proper seal in mind, can't we just jack up the volume to compensate for the lack of seal? Despite foams and whatnot, its not gonna be airtight either way.


Not if you care about your hearing. Listening at very loud volumes to compensate for bass loss is a good way to damage your hearing. Be careful!


----------



## Zerohour88

seanc6441 said:


> Not if you care about your hearing. Listening at very loud volumes to compensate for bass loss is a good way to damage your hearing. Be careful!



not super loud, ofc. Volume matched according to preference, as usual. I'm using it cable down with around 2 step higher in windows vol setting and getting more or less the same clarity as cable up, less fussy about keeping it inside at all times.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Fit was weird at first on the EBX, but after a few days wasn't. It was just like something clicked. Im running VE donuts on mine, and wearing them over ear. Insanely good sound out of these.


----------



## subwoof3r

subwoof3r said:


> Can you tell me by how much the hole is on your TM9 ?


@seanc6441 ?


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> I had a good afternoon, recabled 2 Sony MDR-E808+, 1 Sony Ericsson HPM-64, 1 DIY PK2 SR2 PRO 16ohm and created from scratch an earbud using EMX500 drivers (I'm calling it a HungryPanda DIY EMX500)



I am now the proud owner of a HungryPanda DIY EMX500 V1 bud   It sounds amazing to me. I have never heard a regular EMX500 so I cannot compare. In my photo the black foams are covering the white fronts but you can see them in his photo in the quote.   A HungryPanda DIY EMX500 V2 is planned.  Stay tuned.

The title track on this album is the one I use to test sub bass.  This one passes the test.  Nicely tuned.


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> I am now the proud owner of a HungryPanda DIY EMX500 V1 bud   It sounds amazing to me. I have never heard a regular EMX500 so I cannot compare. In my photo the black foams are covering the white fronts but you can see them in his photo in the quote.   A HungryPanda DIY EMX500 V2 is planned.  Stay tuned.
> 
> The title track on this album is the one I use to test sub bass.  This one passes the test.  Nicely tuned.



tell him to make the cable black and white! then it can be a true panda buds!


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> tell him to make the cable black and white! then it can be a true panda buds!



We are a step ahead of you   I picked out the cables... they have been ordered.


----------



## HungryPanda

That will make them the V2 (with a little different tuning as well)


----------



## doggiemom

mbwilson111 said:


> I am now the proud owner of a HungryPanda DIY EMX500 V1 bud   It sounds amazing to me. I have never heard a regular EMX500 so I cannot compare. In my photo the black foams are covering the white fronts but you can see them in his photo in the quote.   A HungryPanda DIY EMX500 V2 is planned.  Stay tuned.
> 
> The title track on this album is the one I use to test sub bass.  This one passes the test.  Nicely tuned.


What are you listening to?  Is that a hippo?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 22, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> What are you listening to?  Is that a hippo?



That is a hippo.   Flight of the Cosmic Hippo (title track)  by Béla Fleck and the Flecktones.  I don't think sub bass goes much lower than that...

I think if you look at the photo full size, you can actually read the screen  At a PC anyway...

Actually at the moment I am listening to  this:


----------



## golov17 (Nov 22, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> What are you listening to?  Is that a hippo?


 awesome music


----------



## rkw (Nov 22, 2018)

Zerohour88 said:


> Aren't earbuds just practically little speakers resting on your ears? Unlike IEMs which were designed with proper seal in mind, can't we just jack up the volume to compensate for the lack of seal?


 No, because it would be the same imbalance, just with everything louder. Jacking up the volume produces more bass but even louder mids and highs. Earbuds are in fact designed to have some amount of seal for best performance.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 22, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> @seanc6441 ?


Oh my bad! It's about 2 mil.

IMO it makes a notable difference to the tonality. Just by blocking it with my thumb I can hear a difference. I prefer it open as it lends to the tm9's additional sub bass and more open sound. But I think it wouldn't hurt to be slightly more restrictive to tighten the bass slightly. Also the low mids seem to get a nice bump when its sealed. I'm guessing this has something to do with the science behind resonance peaks and how a dip follows. But it's just a subjective observation for now.

Bottom line is the tm9 is tuned a bit soft in the treble so swapping foams is not gonna help as it sounds best with thin as possible or even no foams. But the mids are pretty lean and brighter in that config. So I feel like it's missing that lush textured midrange quality I expect in a TOTL bud.

Overall I feel the mids needed to be fuller, or the treble a bit brighter to achieve a good balance.

The Yin is obviously the answer to the treble 'problem'. Do the yin still ship with thin foams I wonder? Or which foams are preferred for it. (Nevermind saw your Yin impression now, has ve thin blue foams)

Does the yin sound any fuller in the mids? Or is it still the same as the tm9? I think you mention its more forward and engaging. Hoping that means more emphasis  in low and middle vocal region where most of the vocal body comes from.


----------



## groucho69

rkw said:


> No, because it would be the same imbalance, just with everything louder. Jacking up the volume produces more bass but even louder mids and highs. Earbuds are in fact designed to have some amount of seal for best performance.



I find best results wearing them sideways. I never have to worry about a seal.


----------



## Danneq (Nov 22, 2018)

groucho69 said:


> I find best results wearing them sideways. I never have to worry about a seal.



Just how I like my briefs.


----------



## Themilkman46290

Heads up to people thinking of ordering from " beteran HiFi" store on AliExpress, it's a bad seller, I paid for DHL shipping, they said they shipped, they didn't, then after 2 weeks they said they couldn't, so we agreed on EMS shipping, after 3 more days they sent a tracking number it turns out they will use regular local shipping ( long story short local shipping is known to steal a lot ) I specifically paid and asked for DHL, they charged me for it, then said it would be EMS, now it turns out it will be regular post and they pocket the difference, in this case about $30, and I will have a very long wait, then it's 50/50 shot it might get "lost" in local post because that's corruption here, stay away from beteran HiFi, crappy service horrible shipping and the seller straight lies


----------



## groucho69

Danneq said:


> Just how I like my briefs.



I never seal my briefs


----------



## Danneq

Have you ever seen a seal wearing briefs?

(Feel like watching one of the Marx bros movies right now)


----------



## Fizban

Hi guys, is the Shozy BK Limited Edition specifically the one with blue cables, or is there another version?

Also, is there anywhere else other than Penon Audio I may obtain one?

Thanks!


----------



## redkingjoe

Fizban said:


> Hi guys, is the Shozy BK Limited Edition specifically the one with blue cables, or is there another version?
> 
> Also, is there anywhere else other than Penon Audio I may obtain one?
> 
> Thanks!



Yeh. The blue cable is the one.

You can buy direct from Shozy. I used FB to contact them to buy my limited edition. 

They based in Hong Kong where I live. So one of the management team hand delievered it to me.


----------



## redkingjoe

Themilkman46290 said:


> Heads up to people thinking of ordering from " beteran HiFi" store on AliExpress, it's a bad seller, I paid for DHL shipping, they said they shipped, they didn't, then after 2 weeks they said they couldn't, so we agreed on EMS shipping, after 3 more days they sent a tracking number it turns out they will use regular local shipping ( long story short local shipping is known to steal a lot ) I specifically paid and asked for DHL, they charged me for it, then said it would be EMS, now it turns out it will be regular post and they pocket the difference, in this case about $30, and I will have a very long wait, then it's 50/50 shot it might get "lost" in local post because that's corruption here, stay away from beteran HiFi, ****ty service horrible shipping and the seller straight lies



Consider to complain to Ali! Ask for refund for everything!


----------



## Fizban

redkingjoe said:


> Yeh. The blue cable is the one.
> 
> You can buy direct from Shozy. I used FB to contact them to buy my limited edition.
> 
> They based in Hong Kong where I live. So one of the management team hand delievered it to me.


Thank you very much!

Is it worth the money?

I was hoping to grab it with a black Friday sale but I don't think there's any promotion for it


----------



## redkingjoe

Fizban said:


> Thank you very much!
> 
> Is it worth the money?
> 
> I was hoping to grab it with a black Friday sale but I don't think there's any promotion for it



 I believe it’s worth the money a year ago. I originally bought the BK and I like it a lot. So I quickly ordered the Limited edition before it came out a year ago. I have a lot of good earbuds on hand but I ended up spend much more time on this one. The cable of the limited edition and plug will never be outdated is of first class material. When I didn’t like the earbuds again, I just needed to convert it to a mmcx cable for other buds. 

However, if I wanted to spend the same money today, I would spend the same money on ATH CM2000ti!


----------



## Themilkman46290

Yeah 


redkingjoe said:


> Consider to complain to Ali! Ask for refund for everything!


I think I will have to, if order is not here in 10 days, I will for sure, well I guess at the end, I learned why some of you guys don't bother with 11.11 and I don't think I will try it again, terrible experience, 2 out of 5 orders already in dispute


----------



## redkingjoe

Themilkman46290 said:


> Yeah
> 
> I think I will have to, if order is not here in 10 days, I will for sure, well I guess at the end, I learned why some of you guys don't bother with 11.11 and I don't think I will try it again, terrible experience, 2 out of 5 orders already in dispute



Frankly speaking, if I were you, I would have made the complain long time ago. At least they have to pay back the DHL charge!


----------



## gazzington

So any decent deals today?


----------



## HeadlessChicken (Nov 23, 2018)

Quick impressions of NiceHCK EB2 (with VE thick foams)... Before continuing, my music preferences are mainly English pop/rock/mainstream radio songs, so KIV when reading:
Fit is kinda comfortable, the shell feels smaller in the ear than the generic monk+ style shell, but not sure if the diameter is really smaller than that. Not the best buds for sleeping/lying on the sid as compared to the monk lite / qian style shell due to the way the stem connects to the bell shaped part of the bud
Bass is kinda in the background, coming from the monk+ bass emphasis (where the kick drums beats are prominent), these buds have noticeably less of that. Subbass rumble is easier to notice though, perhaps due to that. This part of SQ makes this buds less suited for rock and high energy music that requires good bass presence e.g. Linkin Park's Hybrid Theory album, rap beats from Eminem, EDM etc. 
Mids are coherent, no unusual peaks detected with female vocals e.g. Taylor Swift. But some male vocals, particularly those that sound thick in real life, dont quite get there e.g. Brian McFadden. Nevertheless, its not muddy, and thats still a win for me.
Treble is perhaps the second weakest link. Its sounds kinda rolled off and incomplete, but seems to get piercing at times too. Dunno why, maybe just my busted ears. On balance, not as good as it could be
Cable is nice. Like really nice. Its soft and supple. The chin slider is too loose to be useful though, but least its shiny o.o finally the jack has a short strain relief, but it seems solid for now (anw the jack is shiny too, so props for that).
Tl; dr pretty solid offering, but i suspect most budget offerings compete on a similar level in terms of overall SQ strengths and drawbacks. Get this mainly for build quality and comfy fit, and wait for discounts


----------



## j4100

gazzington said:


> So any decent deals today?


 
I haven't seen anything I'd jump at.

However, been thinking of getting the TY Hi-z HP150s 150 mkII that Penon have, after some recent posts on here. Probably get the 2.5mm trrs version.


----------



## gazzington

j4100 said:


> I haven't seen anything I'd jump at.
> 
> However, been thinking of getting theTY Hi-z HP150s 150 mkII that Penon have, after some recent posts on here. Probably get the 2.5mm trrs version.


I've never had TY Hi-z earbuds but would also like to try some


----------



## wskl

gazzington said:


> So any decent deals today?



Over at Penon, they have the Sunrise SW-Dragon II (SWD2) at $65, that's the lowest I've seen it.
https://penonaudio.com/black-friday-sales/sunrise-sw-dragon-ii-swd2-sr120.html


----------



## gazzington

wskl said:


> Over at Penon, they have the Sunrise SW-Dragon II (SWD2) at $65, that's the lowest I've seen it.
> https://penonaudio.com/black-friday-sales/sunrise-sw-dragon-ii-swd2-sr120.html


Are they good?


----------



## Palash

Here are some great deals in Penon Audio Black Friday Sale  
*HE 150ohm HiFi Earbud for 11.90$*
*Rose Masya for 98$
TY Hi-Z 150ohm for 38.50$
TY Hi-Z F300C 300ohm for 16.90 $
*


----------



## wskl

gazzington said:


> Are they good?



Sorry I don't have them, but if you search this thread a few members like them.


----------



## LazerBear

Hello guys, looking for a recommendation for something under 100$ and preferably around 50$ or less to use to listen to music in the office. No need for mic, would prefer a generally balanced sound with maybe a warm-ish tint and a slightly rolled off treble. My only point of reference in the earbud world is the original VE Monk, which I don't particularly like as I find its upper treble splashy. My source at the moment is a Shanling M0, but I plan to upgrade to something slightly larger and powerful soon, maybe an Hiby R3.

I've been looking at a bunch of threads but what I found was more confusing than helping, haha. Be as it may I was looking at the Auglamour RX-1 and Shozy Cygnus, although for the second pair I'm really hesitant to drop near 100$ on an earbud.


----------



## TheoS53

LazerBear said:


> Hello guys, looking for a recommendation for something under 100$ and preferably around 50$ or less to use to listen to music in the office. No need for mic, would prefer a generally balanced sound with maybe a warm-ish tint and a slightly rolled off treble. My only point of reference in the earbud world is the original VE Monk, which I don't particularly like as I find its upper treble splashy. My source at the moment is a Shanling M0, but I plan to upgrade to something slightly larger and powerful soon, maybe an Hiby R3.
> 
> I've been looking at a bunch of threads but what I found was more confusing than helping, haha. Be as it may I was looking at the Auglamour RX-1 and Shozy Cygnus, although for the second pair I'm really hesitant to drop near 100$ on an earbud.



Head over to the EQ and use the "Party" preset. If you still find the treble a bit too splashy, then opt for the "Soft Rock" preset. Using an EQ will drop the volume (to avoid clipping), so depending on the song you might need to switch over into high gain


----------



## HeadlessChicken

LazerBear said:


> Hello guys, looking for a recommendation for something under 100$ and preferably around 50$ or less to use to listen to music in the office. No need for mic, would prefer a generally balanced sound with maybe a warm-ish tint and a slightly rolled off treble. My only point of reference in the earbud world is the original VE Monk, which I don't particularly like as I find its upper treble splashy. My source at the moment is a Shanling M0, but I plan to upgrade to something slightly larger and powerful soon, maybe an Hiby R3.
> 
> I've been looking at a bunch of threads but what I found was more confusing than helping, haha. Be as it may I was looking at the Auglamour RX-1 and Shozy Cygnus, although for the second pair I'm really hesitant to drop near 100$ on an earbud.


Hi i would rec the NiceHCK EB2 for balanced sound (more balanced than Monks for sure), though it doesnt have a warmish tint.
But for source, would not rec the R3. IMO go for iBasso DX120 instead. From my brief interaction with the DX120 it has better SQ than the R3 I own


----------



## fairx

Umm.. I saw snow lotus 1.0+ is back on AE?


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache (Nov 23, 2018)

My order of an RY assortment arrived yesterday.  Here's what I'm finding...

RY4S - the basic buds for $6 cdn.  These things sound great.  Nice deep bass but still a balanced and fairly open sound overall.  Better SQ than the Monk+ imho.  Cable is nice too. 

RY4S UE Cable - Bass not quite as thick as the basic RY4S and a more open soundstage.  Lots of detail.  Great overall sound.  Not entirely sure it's worth the extra $6 a pair...but they definitely sound very good! 

RY4X - these ones sound a little cluttered and just not as refined as the others to me.  They sound a little more like a cheap earbud...and I don't like the cable much at all. (I accidentally selected the ones with the twisty black cable, which I don't like much.  I see there is an option to order with the same cable as the standard RY4S which I would have preferred.)

So, the basic RY4S is the budget champ for me right now.  Really amazing buds for $6...I think the RY's with the UE cable do sound a little better overall, but It's possible to convince myself that the basic buds have a SQ that isn't actually worse if you know what I mean.  I'm happy to have a pair of the UE-cabled ones but I'll be ordering more of the standards just to kick around with.


----------



## HungryPanda

gazzington said:


> Are they good?


More than good


----------



## Fizban

redkingjoe said:


> I believe it’s worth the money a year ago. I originally bought the BK and I like it a lot. So I quickly ordered the Limited edition before it came out a year ago. I have a lot of good earbuds on hand but I ended up spend much more time on this one. The cable of the limited edition and plug will never be outdated is of first class material. When I didn’t like the earbuds again, I just needed to convert it to a mmcx cable for other buds.
> 
> However, if I wanted to spend the same money today, I would spend the same money on ATH CM2000ti!


Thank you


----------



## groucho69

Danneq said:


> Have you ever seen a seal wearing briefs?
> 
> (Feel like watching one of the Marx bros movies right now)



How he got in my pajamas I'll never know.


----------



## DBaldock9

Didn't even have to go to the store on _Black Friday_, to find just what I needed...   
(This PMJ video is definitely in my Top 5 favorites of theirs.)
.


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> Didn't even have to go to the store on _Black Friday_, to find just what I needed...
> (This PMJ video is definitely in my Top 5 favorites of theirs.)
> .




Ha! That was somewhat awesome!


----------



## subwoof3r

fairx said:


> Umm.. I saw snow lotus 1.0+ is back on AE?


Link ? the two I checked are still grayed.


----------



## subwoof3r (Nov 23, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Oh my bad! It's about 2 mil.
> 
> IMO it makes a notable difference to the tonality. Just by blocking it with my thumb I can hear a difference. I prefer it open as it lends to the tm9's additional sub bass and more open sound. But I think it wouldn't hurt to be slightly more restrictive to tighten the bass slightly. Also the low mids seem to get a nice bump when its sealed. I'm guessing this has something to do with the science behind resonance peaks and how a dip follows. But it's just a subjective observation for now.
> 
> ...


Thanks, so definitely is seems that there is a huge hole difference of on the TM9 and YIN.
I tried to block the bass port with some "patafix" and I hear "almost" no difference that without blocking it, so it proves the hole must be extremely tiny on the YIN. It seems there is slightly less bass emphasizing (but not by much), other freqs aren't affected and looks the same, but like you, I much prefer them stock.
I will try this hole experimentation on my own EMX500 DIY project, as this looks quite interesting.

I prefer my YIN with ali foams that you recommended so much  (well, like 80% of my other earbuds now, lol)

About the fuller mids, I need to spend more time with YIN, as I didn't in the past few days since I received them. But overall, it's still not a "wow effect" earbuds at first sight. They remember me the same feeling as when I listened to TM9 for the first time. Between TM9 and YIN, it is not night and day difference as they shares the same signature (soundstage too), but there is definitely improvements in mids (especially) and highs/treble. Bass remains almost the same to me but in slight favor of the YIN.
I just need to have TM9 back to really see the difference, as I'm doing those compares just with my memory, which prolly will get even more erased in the upcoming weeks to remember properly my old TM9 for a fair compare).

Overall, this YIN is now a keeper. It has the real TOTL sound from an earbuds I was expecting. It is still a true allrounder, which is really appreciated. On the YIN, I still feel like I'm listening to headphones, it has a very addictiv sound..


----------



## darmanastartes

Received the QianYun Qian69 and Nicehck EB2 in the mail today after ordering them for 11/11, both ordered from Nicehck. Got the EB2 as a review sample, paid sale price for the Qian69. I'm liking the Qian69 a lot more than the EB2. I haven't had a lot of experience with earbuds since really getting into audio, with my only other earbud up to this point being the Monk Espresso. The Qian69 sounds huge, open, and very detailed, yet more tonally consistent than a lot of the IEMs I've used recently. The EB2 is less impressive. It seems to be really finicky as far as fit goes, with the sound quality and channel balance varying dramatically depending on minute adjustments, and sounds a little thin to me.


----------



## mbwilson111

darmanastartes said:


> The EB2 is less impressive. It seems to be really finicky as far as fit goes, with the sound quality and channel balance varying dramatically depending on minute adjustments, and sounds a little thin to me.



Are you using foams with it?


----------



## darmanastartes

mbwilson111 said:


> Are you using foams with it?


Yeah, they help but it's still not great. I'm wondering if I got a bad pair.


----------



## mbwilson111

darmanastartes said:


> Yeah, they help but it's still not great. I'm wondering if I got a bad pair.



The shifting channels make it seem like they aren't stable in your ear.  What if you put a donut over the full foam.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 23, 2018)

subwoof3r said:


> Thanks, so definitely is seems that there is a huge hole difference of on the TM9 and YIN.
> I tried to block the bass port with some "patafix" and I hear "almost" no difference that without blocking it, so it proves the hole must be extremely tiny on the YIN. It seems there is slightly less bass emphasizing (but not by much), other freqs aren't affected and looks the same, but like you, I much prefer them stock.
> I will try this hole experimentation on my own EMX500 DIY project, as this looks quite interesting.
> 
> ...


I'm not surprised its a minor difference as it's just controlling airflow by the bass port.

However if the same logic is applied from speakers with bass ports I think the lenght and diameter of the port can effect the bass resonance (moving the peak slightly lower or higher in the bass region) and also any peak is usually followed by a slightly dip.

This may play into the tonal balance on the tm9, but could not have as profound an effect on the Yin especially if the port size is reduced.

Their must be a benefit to the bass port as a tube/cylinder over a simple opening like all the other vents. Other than it not effecting the back wave resonance in any way, it must help bass response differently than standard venting.

Or else sennheiser would not have added it at all. They obviously did their research and that's why the shell stuck around so long and became popular in chi fi buds.


----------



## ShabtabQ

Any earbuds recommendation under 10 usd, already ordered RY4S, and EB2 and have Vido.


----------



## BrunoC

ShabtabQ said:


> Any earbuds recommendation under 10 usd, already ordered RY4S, and EB2 and have Vido.



You absolutely need the EMX500. Believe me. It' the budget king.


----------



## LazerBear

HeadlessChicken said:


> Hi i would rec the NiceHCK EB2 for balanced sound (more balanced than Monks for sure), though it doesnt have a warmish tint.
> But for source, would not rec the R3. IMO go for iBasso DX120 instead. From my brief interaction with the DX120 it has better SQ than the R3 I own



Just bought the NiceHCK EB2 after checking a few reviews here on Head-Fi, Will get back with some impressions after they get here. Thanks!


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 24, 2018)

BrunoC said:


> You absolutely need the EMX500. Believe me. It' the budget king.


Yup I agree. The original EMX500 is still king. Especially with slight mods and foam tuning. It's got the most dynamic and refined tuning of all budget earbuds imo. Ry4s is pretty nice but a bit rougher around the edges and doesn't have as effortless soundstage expansion. I do love the potential of both though. I will mod them both 

If emx500 had a touch more bumped up low-mid mid range it would be a perfect tuning. But as it is it's still pretty damn great.


----------



## seanc6441

LazerBear said:


> Just bought the NiceHCK EB2 after checking a few reviews here on Head-Fi, Will get back with some impressions after they get here. Thanks!


I appreciated it's wide soundstage, even if I didn't keep it (hard to compete with the mojito in width) it was the widest in all my budget earbuds with very clean mids.


----------



## j4100

Nice one! Adhi found me a Vunbud.


----------



## -rowan-

Themilkman46290 said:


> Heads up to people thinking of ordering from " beteran HiFi" store on AliExpress, it's a bad seller, I paid for DHL shipping, they said they shipped, they didn't, then after 2 weeks they said they couldn't, so we agreed on EMS shipping, after 3 more days they sent a tracking number it turns out they will use regular local shipping ( long story short local shipping is known to steal a lot ) I specifically paid and asked for DHL, they charged me for it, then said it would be EMS, now it turns out it will be regular post and they pocket the difference, in this case about $30, and I will have a very long wait, then it's 50/50 shot it might get "lost" in local post because that's corruption here, stay away from beteran HiFi, ****ty service horrible shipping and the seller straight lies



100% agree. I placed 2 orders with them and received neither. To be fair, they were quite prompt in issuing the refund the first time which was why I gave them a second chance. Thank screw for Ali's refund policy. I haven't got my money back for the second order yet but it's being processed.


----------



## jant71 (Nov 24, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I agree.  I have some that almost convince me that I am wearing full sized headphones.  I felt that way when I was listening to my BGVP DX3 (discontinued now) last night.  I still love my headphones but during the hotter than normal summer that we had I was unable to use them.



There is a supposedly upgraded 3rd gen DX3s on BF sale at Penon. Recommended?? Not sure how it fits. Know the face diameter measurement?? We know the driver is 15mm but not the whole edge to edge measure minus any foams and such.


----------



## abhijollyguy

Neutral sounding best earbuds? Anyone?


----------



## Fizban

abhijollyguy said:


> Neutral sounding best earbuds? Anyone?



Moondrop Nameless!


----------



## jogawag

abhijollyguy said:


> Neutral sounding best earbuds? Anyone?


YINCROW RW-9


----------



## abhijollyguy

jogawag said:


> YINCROW RW-9





Fizban said:


> Moondrop Nameless!



I am actually looking at TOTL category.


----------



## waynes world

j4100 said:


> Nice one! Adhi found me a Vunbud.



Lucky you! Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## HungryPanda (Nov 24, 2018)

jant71 said:


> There is a supposedly upgraded 3rd gen DX3s on BF sale at Penon. Recommended?? Not sure how it fits. Know the face diameter measurement?? We know the driver is 15mm but not the whole edge to edge measure minus any foams and such.


I just measured my BGVP DX3s and it is 16.18mm across the face at it's thickest point


----------



## jant71

HungryPanda said:


> I just measured my BGVP DX3s and it is 16.18mm across the face at it's thickest point



Cool! Thanks!


----------



## chaiyuta

abhijollyguy said:


> I am actually looking at TOTL category.


My Miracle Diamond is kinda neutral tone, though this model is already sold-out and discontinued. If you are going to TOTL tier, I advise you discussing with Mr. Spp Sutipong about his next upcoming model in the first quarter of next year. He also can tune based on customer preference.


----------



## Danneq

abhijollyguy said:


> I am actually looking at TOTL category.



It's difficult to find perfectly neutral earbuds even in the TOTL category. Something neutralish might be Cypherus ZoomFred. It has got a slight focus on bass with very deep sub bass for an earbud. I would also say that Simphonio SWD2+ is tilting toward a neutral sound but with a slight focus on upper mids and highs. So even if Zoomfred and SWD2+ in some ways are neutralish they still sound different from each other.

Two of the most neutral TOTL earbuds I've heard are both diiscontinued: Sennheiser MX980/985 and Cypherus CAX Black edition. But those to ALSO had some differences where MX980/985 has got a bit more sparkle in the treble and not too deep sub bass while CAX Black has got that sort of "analogue" that Cypherus earbuds share - a warm and musical sound that still does not sacrifice detail.


----------



## Ziggomatic

ShabtabQ said:


> Any earbuds recommendation under 10 usd, already ordered RY4S, and EB2 and have Vido.



The Edifier H180 is a good choice at a little more than $10.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 24, 2018)

abhijollyguy said:


> Neutral sounding best earbuds? Anyone?


 it really helps to let us know if you want a tonally neutral earbud or a frequency response that is most balanced-neutral.

Because many buds are below neutral point in bass and treble response or do not extend as much as neutral headphones or speakers will. But have excellent midrange neutrality.

Others have a more general neutrality with great extension and reletively neutral mids, thus overall being more accurate and neutral. These usually come in the TOTL price range though.

For instance as danneq recommended the Cypherus Zoomfred which is most likely capable of delivering an accurate bass and treble response as it is a high end earbud which others have noted for it's extension and accuracy. So coming from headphones those will sound vastly more neutral than most buds that will come off as midcentric and mid forward in comparison.

But if you want the most realistic and neutral midrange timbre a Blur earbud might be what you're looking for or the SW dragon 2 + also mentioned above as those have been praised for their mids and sounding realistic and accurate in that sense.


----------



## Danneq

seanc6441 said:


> it really helps to let us know if you want a tonally neutral earbud or a frequency response that is most balanced-neutral.
> 
> Because many buds are below neutral point in bass and treble response or do not extend as much as neutral headphones or speakers will. But have excellent midrange neutrality.
> 
> ...




I think it's hard to find a "one size fits all" earbud even if you are looking for a neutral sound...


----------



## chinmie

abhijollyguy said:


> I am actually looking at TOTL category.



some that i have tried and their "slightly tilted towards" signature
SWD2+ (neutral bright), Yinman 600 (neutral warm), Puresound PS100-500 or PS100-600 (neutral sub bass), Blox TM9 (neutral midbass)


----------



## waynes world

abhijollyguy said:


> I am actually looking at TOTL category.



It may not be neutral, and it may not be TOTL, but all you need is the Svara L 32ohm. 

(sorry - I like them - couldn't resist!l


----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> It may not be neutral, and it may not be TOTL, but all you need is the Svara L 32ohm.
> 
> (sorry - I like them - couldn't resist!l



That's what I've been using for part of today - listening to Postmodern Jukebox videos, and watching "Eureka" on Amazon Prime.
The other part was using the RYGMR RY4S (UE cable).


----------



## HungryPanda

I have been using recabled Sony MDR-E808+ earbuds today after irritating my left ear with goddam iems


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> I have been using recabled Sony MDR-E808+ earbuds today after irritating my left ear with goddam iems



Not good! I wish I could do iems, but they are just to problematic for me (not to mention that they isolate too well and I would get yelled at a lot lol). Thank goodness for earbuds!


----------



## abhijollyguy

Thank you everybody for your inputs and increasing more confusion.

So far being suggested by FM are: 

Cypherus ZoomFred
Yinman 600
Puresound PS100-500 or PS100-600
Blox TM9

Which one has smaller shell?


----------



## rkw

Danneq said:


> It's difficult to find perfectly neutral earbuds even in the TOTL category. Something neutralish might be Cypherus ZoomFred. It has got a slight focus on bass with very deep sub bass for an earbud. I would also say that Simphonio SWD2+ is tilting toward a neutral sound but with a slight focus on upper mids and highs. So even if Zoomfred and SWD2+ in some ways are neutralish they still sound different from each other.
> 
> Two of the most neutral TOTL earbuds I've heard are both diiscontinued: Sennheiser MX980/985 and Cypherus CAX Black edition. But those to ALSO had some differences where MX980/985 has got a bit more sparkle in the treble and not too deep sub bass while CAX Black has got that sort of "analogue" that Cypherus earbuds share - a warm and musical sound that still does not sacrifice detail.


How would you rate Blox TM9 and Yin with respect to neutrality?


----------



## chinmie

abhijollyguy said:


> Thank you everybody for your inputs and increasing more confusion.
> 
> So far being suggested by FM are:
> 
> ...



they all (except the yinman) have the same mx500 type shell. they all have the same diameter (if I'm not mistaken)


----------



## chaiyuta

Photo album of "Thai Earbud Fanclub Meeting No.1" that is full of eye candy ===> Link


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 24, 2018)

abhijollyguy said:


> Thank you everybody for your inputs and increasing more confusion.
> 
> So far being suggested by FM are:
> 
> ...


If you want a smaller shell the SW Dragon 2 plus is probably the way to go then. The rest mentioned use mx500 type shells which are standard-larger fitting for most.

But using mx500 shells with thin foams is pretty comfortable for my ears even though I like smaller sizes usually. Mx500 with thick foam is a bit more compressed for me...


----------



## chaiyuta

K's Bell-Ti pre-order batch had been sent to pre-order customers with apparently positive feedbacks. Its outer diameter of front cover is 16.1 mm, therefore it might be suitable for some people who love a smaller housing than a MX500 housing. More Pictures is here.


----------



## abhijollyguy

So finally, the Yinman 600 and SW Dragon 2 Plus have small shell. 

Any other TOTL earbud with small shell with neutral with a very slight lift in mid-bass without mid-range bleed?


----------



## Danneq

rkw said:


> How would you rate Blox TM9 and Yin with respect to neutrality?



Haven't heard Yin, but TM9 is quite neutral. So I should have included that as well. I just find ZoomFred and SWD2+ to be more energetic in different ways while TM9 is more laid back.


----------



## golov17

Danneq said:


> Haven't heard Yin, but TM9 is quite neutral. So I should have included that as well. I just find ZoomFred and SWD2+ to be more energetic in different ways while TM9 is more laid back.


 what about Campfred 2? Still not sure about order CF2 instead of Zoomfred..


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> what about Campfred 2? Still not sure about order CF2 instead of Zoomfred..



CF2 has got the same type of "analogue" sound that ZF has. CF2 is a bit more "fun" sounding though. Perhaps just slightly less neutral than ZF but not at all by much. Both are just great and the cable on CF2 is better for portable use.


----------



## golov17

Danneq said:


> CF2 has got the same type of "analogue" sound that ZF has. CF2 is a bit more "fun" sounding though. Perhaps just slightly less neutral than ZF but not at all by much. Both are just great and the cable on CF2 is better for portable use.


Oh yes, cable is important to me, thanks for reminding me.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Hello folks,

I know that is a bit of topic but I need the opinion of yours about my burn in process. In my burn in process I'm using 2 raspberry pi playing pink noise for 40m in intervals of 2 hours. So, play 40m and rest 1h20m. I use 2 because I can run in parallel, with 2 earbuds at the same time. The burn in process runs for 8h (40m*12 = 8h) a day. What do you think about? Am I getting to easy with the earbuds?


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Nov 25, 2018)

Best female vocals under $19? And I guess what I mean by that is is there anything under 19 that puts female vocals out in front of everything, is natural and still has good low end?


----------



## FastAndClean

BadReligionPunk said:


> Best female vocals under $19?


 


RY4S silver cable is very good


----------



## BadReligionPunk

FastAndClean said:


> RY4S silver cable is very good


Is there a big difference between silver cable and UE? I have ry4s UE w/ brown cable? I enjoy it very much


----------



## FastAndClean (Nov 25, 2018)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Is there a big difference between silver cable and UE? I have ry4s UE w/ brown cable?


i have the blue cable and the silver, they sound very different, i dont have the brown version, but if it is like the blue they are like completely different models


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 25, 2018)

abhijollyguy said:


> So finally, the Yinman 600 and SW Dragon 2 Plus have small shell.
> 
> Any other TOTL earbud with small shell with neutral with a very slight lift in mid-bass without mid-range bleed?


Yinman has the same diameter front cover as mx500 earbuds but the shell shape is different (and it's a wood shell). SW is a pk shell so it is indeed smaller and a favourite for many in terms of fit and comfort (most find it a very snug fit and comfortable to use for hours on end, myself included).


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 25, 2018)

Speaking of the Ry4s UE I decided to try open up the second bass port  with a 1.5mm drill bit.

The result was very positive although not perfect. It brought extra power to the low end thus shifting the balance slightly towards a more neutral/balanced tonality (similar to that of the Mk2). Low vocals as a result sounded slightly fuller. Sub bass improved noticably. The highs became slightly less shrill.

I would have preferred a 1mm opening, i feel 1.5 is a little too loose and imaging suffers a little very akin to the mk2 but still better than mk2 slightly in that regard.

1mm would be a perfect middle ground I feel. I was using them with thin foams, which previously were a bit too thin for the ry4s because of the agressive treble, but with the port open I felt thin foams suited perfectly as the bass was fuller and the balance was near perfect in that regard.

I'll try find a 1mm drill bit and use another mx500 shell to test it. I think I'll enjoy the result.

Another option was to cut slightly the inner foam ring restricting airflow to the driver, most mx500 buds have that horseshoe shape foam filter but the mk2 has only the filter on left and right side with the top and bottom open. Copying that on the ry4s brought about a slightly recessed soundstage, also had a similar effect in increasing bass slightly.

Not sure how I like the effect, makes the ry4s a little more laid back, will test further.


----------



## doggiemom

Danneq said:


> CF2 has got the same type of "analogue" sound that ZF has. CF2 is a bit more "fun" sounding though. Perhaps just slightly less neutral than ZF but not at all by much. Both are just great and the cable on CF2 is better for portable use.


Agree with this!  ZoomFred initially was bright, but has mellowed over time.  ZF beats CF2 on bass and soundstage, but the less assertive treble on the CF2 is to my liking.  If I _had_ to choose, I'd pick CF2 even though ZF is "better".......  the CF2 is my go-to for portable use.  I've actually thought about getting another pair, because I've had a couple of close calls with the 2.5 mm connector bending in my DAP......


----------



## chaiyuta

abhijollyguy said:


> So finally, the Yinman 600 and SW Dragon 2 Plus have small shell.
> 
> Any other TOTL earbud with small shell with neutral with a very slight lift in mid-bass without mid-range bleed?


I recommend super kryptonite 32 over SWD2+. So far better detail retrieval, instumental positioning and relatively smaller vocal image. For my preference, SWD2+ vocal image is too over-sized and almost 70%of soundstage is vocal image. YMMV


----------



## abhijollyguy

chaiyuta said:


> I recommend super kryptonite 32 over SWD2+. So far better detail retrieval, instumental positioning and relatively smaller vocal image. For my preference, SWD2+ vocal image is too over-sized and almost 70%of soundstage is vocal image. YMMV


Could you please elaborate your post a little more in sound comparison?
What is the price range of Kryptonite?


----------



## chaiyuta

abhijollyguy said:


> Could you please elaborate your post a little more in sound comparison?
> What is the price range of Kryptonite?


Refer to my previous post, here. Its price is 9650THB based on this fb post. Though this price is for sale in Thailand. To ship internationally, the total price would be higher than that. Please PM to Crystalcore Audio fanpage direct for actual total price.


----------



## subwoof3r

After spending few hours with my *Blox YIN* this week-end (between my burning table), I can say that the black point is finally (still?) the highs/treble extension.
It lacks details, they are inoffensive (Although it is cool for long time listening without being tired). I did a test and YIN shows their limit to approx 14400Hz.
I also feel like there is a slight bump in low-mids freq, which is the famous "improvement" from the TM9 I would say.
Other than that, we approach the perfection. I really feel like YIN is much less laid-back than TM9.
Soundstage is probably what impress me so much on these. It is almost the same as TM9 but a bit more large this time, deep is the same.
I still really appreciate the natural and transparency of those earbuds, that now Blox has found the right magicness.

Overall, I'm happy with my YIN


----------



## maxxevv

New deliveries from 11.11   


 

ToneKing TO600 and Sabaj Da3.  

Put it through a 2 hour burn-in before trying with a few test tracks. The TO600s are pretty impressive on first listen, but of course, its highly dependent on the position they are worn. 
Used them with cables over ears and facing slightly forward on the ears.  

They seem to do everything very nicely. Coherant and tonally excellent for female vocals. Good nice tight bass for classical and pop too. Sarah Mclachlan  and Stacy Kent sure sounded lush. 
Oh, separation is very good too.  

They do present the tracks in the way I wore them, like mini open headphones. Very open and engaging sound stage.Very "clean" sounding without being "bright".  

On a side note, they do not smooth over sibilance that is present in tracks but they are not overtly sibilant either. For stuff that I cannot hear sibilance on the Sennheiser HD6XX, I don't detect it here either. 

But these are my subjective hearing assessments, nothing really to compare with except my **** PT15s. 
Paid US$68.75 during the sale after combination of coupons and discount. I wouldn't have bought them at their normal asking prices of about US$100/-. 

Will have to put them through more hours to give a more detailed assessment.


----------



## snip3r77

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> My order of an RY assortment arrived yesterday.  Here's what I'm finding...
> 
> RY4S - the basic buds for $6 cdn.  These things sound great.  Nice deep bass but still a balanced and fairly open sound overall.  Better SQ than the Monk+ imho.  Cable is nice too.
> 
> ...



Is vanilla RY4S an enhanced Vido then?


----------



## FastAndClean

maxxevv said:


> New deliveries from 11.11


hei i have the same dac, is just great with earbuds and IEM s , nice and clean with balanced out too


----------



## j4100

More 11.11 deliveries today. Really looking forward to hearing these. They will go well with the NiceHCK 2.5mm MMCX cable that also arrived today.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

snip3r77 said:


> Is vanilla RY4S an enhanced Vido then?




Sorry, I couldn't say.  I don't have the Vidos...


----------



## seanc6441

subwoof3r said:


> After spending few hours with my *Blox YIN* this week-end (between my burning table), I can say that the black point is finally (still?) the highs/treble extension.
> It lacks details, they are inoffensive (Although it is cool for long time listening without being tired). I did a test and YIN shows their limit to approx 14400Hz.
> I also feel like there is a slight bump in low-mids freq, which is the famous "improvement" from the TM9 I would say.
> Other than that, we approach the perfection. I really feel like YIN is much less laid-back than TM9.
> ...


Considering 99.9% of music tone is under 14khz I think that's not a real issue. More important is the presence and consistency around 8-14khz.

Good to hear the low mids have more body to them, that would be my main concern along with it being a little more lively overall. Nice write up


----------



## seanc6441

maxxevv said:


> New deliveries from 11.11
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think we have all been waiting to see this earbud being listened to! Pity you don't have a to400 or other similar buds to compare especially the bass since it was a weak point of the 400 for me. Regardless it's nice to see that someone has it and gives positive first impressions!


----------



## LazerBear

Marcos Fontana said:


> Hello folks,
> 
> I know that is a bit of topic but I need the opinion of yours about my burn in process. In my burn in process I'm using 2 raspberry pi playing pink noise for 40m in intervals of 2 hours. So, play 40m and rest 1h20m. I use 2 because I can run in parallel, with 2 earbuds at the same time. The burn in process runs for 8h (40m*12 = 8h) a day. What do you think about? Am I getting to easy with the earbuds?



I think it's fine, keep in mind there's no real agreement on how or whether to do burn in, so you just want to have the driver run for a while so that it in theory settles. Pink noise is the most scientific way to do that, and not running 24/7 is a good habit unless you want to stress test the driver (so that you return it if it breaks).


----------



## Marcos Fontana

LazerBear said:


> I think it's fine, keep in mind there's no real agreement on how or whether to do burn in, so you just want to have the driver run for a while so that it in theory settles. Pink noise is the most scientific way to do that, and not running 24/7 is a good habit unless you want to stress test the driver (so that you return it if it breaks).


I appreciate your return!


----------



## snip3r77

Monk plus @ Massdrop for a meal is up if anyone is interested


----------



## audio123

My take on the ShoonTH ESEP-01B Ultimate is up on my site and Head-Fi! Enjoy!


----------



## mbwilson111

snip3r77 said:


> Monk plus @ Massdrop for a meal is up if anyone is interested



Nice.  Everyone should have a Monk+   I have three -  a purple, coffee, and clear..


----------



## paddyberger (Nov 26, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> I have been using recabled Sony MDR-E808+ earbuds today after irritating my left ear with goddam iems



Same, antiobiotics drops failed so they put me on the oral antibiotics now. At least I can try out my snow lotus 1.0+ now. Still waiting for the RY4S UE though.


----------



## groucho69

Have not been able to use IEMs for about 10 weeks. Glad I have good cans and buds.


----------



## golov17

snip3r77 said:


> Monk plus @ Massdrop for a meal is up if anyone is interested


I would order these if they were delivered to Russia


----------



## mbwilson111

golov17 said:


> I would order these if they were delivered to Russia



Massdrop will not deliver to Russia?  I guess I thought they shipped world wide.


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> Massdrop will not deliver to Russia?  I guess I thought they shipped world wide.



Probably cost way most than the Monks.

I feel I need to get some help about my earbud addiction. It's not bad enough that I bought a load of 11.11 buds, but went back today to get the Hi-Z HP150 Mk2 I wanted. Whilst on Ali, decided to get an IEM for my grandson and came away with another pair of RY buds. The GM500 and the RY4S with silver UE cable. I'm doomed!

In other news, I'm really enjoying the Svara-L, though the fit isn't great for my left ear. I'll not be using these on the move anyway, so not a problem .


----------



## waynes world

j4100 said:


> In other news, I'm really enjoying the Svara-L, though the fit isn't great for my left ear. I'll not be using these on the move anyway, so not a problem .



Hopefully you're able to get them seated well enough to hear all of their bass goodness. So far I have found donuts to work best for me. And although I enjoy wearing them over ears, they might work better for you wearing them down (with a different cable of course).


----------



## j4100

waynes world said:


> Hopefully you're able to get them seated well enough to hear all of their bass goodness. So far I have found donuts to work best for me. And although I enjoy wearing them over ears, they might work better for you wearing them down (with a different cable of course).



I'll need to experiment. I was using them at work with the supplied cable. I bought a cable from Jim at NiceHCK with a 2.5mm termination that I'm going to use with them and my RA 2.0bl. I was wearing them over ear. Initially, I didn't have foams on them and they seemed to fit ok, so I'll dig out some thin ones and give it a try, and try wearing them down. Mind you, I left them at work, so not tonight then!


----------



## waynes world

j4100 said:


> Mind you, I left them at work, so not tonight then!



Tactical error lol!


----------



## j4100

waynes world said:


> Tactical error lol!



I'm hopeless! I was thinking I would revisit them tomorrow, but I'm on a training course for the next three days, so that's right out the window


----------



## Zerohour88

Anyone that has the EBX, have you guys ever tried using any sort of ear hooks/fins on them? I saw the Astrotec Lyra Collection having a similar shape and also comes with a pair of fins in the package, the fins should help the EBX fit a bit better like the Lyra?

was gonna order some ear fins from ali, but not sure on the shape or size that will fit the EBX nicely (the ones that came with TY Hi-Z kinda covered the rear ports and fins was a bit small)


----------



## PhonicSword

Hey guys I've been trying to find a new portable audio device, and my current plan is to get a quality IEM and then get some open back headphones for use in my house down the line when I have more money. The problem is,there are too many IEMs and I'm a poor college student who doesn't have enough money to buy and try all of them so I'd really appreciate some help. I previously owned Audio Technica ATH-M50x, and I liked the sound of them but I just wanted the mids to come out more and the bass to be a tiny bit punchier. I think the signature is a mild V-shape but not sure since I am new to this.

I've tried to research on my own but it hasn't really helped, and I like to know what I am talking about before making a good purchase. Someone on reddit recommended the HiFi Boy OS V3 to me and it does look pretty appealing, but there isn't that much information comparing it to other IEMs in the same price range. I found some others that I'll list to see if anyone can recommend to me, but to be honest all of these (other than the HiFis) were taken off crinacle's IEM ranking list so I don't know if it's worth mentioning.

HiFi Boy OS V3
TFZ King Pro
VSONIC GR07 Bass Edition
Alpha & Delta D6
FiiO F9
Final Audio Design Heaven II
ADV Sound EVO X
FiiO F5
Kinera Idun
Massdrop x Nuforce EDC3
Zero Audio Carbo Tenore ZH-DH200-CT
My price range is between $30-160, and I'm wondering if it's even worth spending that much on a IEM that i'm using for portability. It will probably be my daily driver until I get a pair of open back headphones, but most of the music I listen to is in my car anyway so I can deal with a decent, low quality IEM if it isn't worth it. I listen to many different genres, but my top ones (right now) are rap, pop, epic (video game music basically), and metal. Any advice helps, whether it's other IEMs that have a good price to performance or if I should just save up and get a better pair of open backs. Thanks in advance for the help!


----------



## Narayan23

PhonicSword said:


> Hey guys I've been trying to find a new portable audio device, and my current plan is to get a quality IEM and then get some open back headphones for use in my house down the line when I have more money. The problem is,there are too many IEMs and I'm a poor college student who doesn't have enough money to buy and try all of them so I'd really appreciate some help. I previously owned Audio Technica ATH-M50x, and I liked the sound of them but I just wanted the mids to come out more and the bass to be a tiny bit punchier. I think the signature is a mild V-shape but not sure since I am new to this.
> 
> I've tried to research on my own but it hasn't really helped, and I like to know what I am talking about before making a good purchase. Someone on reddit recommended the HiFi Boy OS V3 to me and it does look pretty appealing, but there isn't that much information comparing it to other IEMs in the same price range. I found some others that I'll list to see if anyone can recommend to me, but to be honest all of these (other than the HiFis) were taken off crinacle's IEM ranking list so I don't know if it's worth mentioning/QUOTE]
> 
> ...


----------



## PhonicSword

Oh jeez that is embarrassing I didn't even realize. Thanks so much for the help!


----------



## mbwilson111

PhonicSword said:


> Oh jeez that is embarrassing I didn't even realize. Thanks so much for the help!



Don't worry.  When you figure out what iem you want, you can come back here and pick out a nice bud  I enjoy both....and headphones!


----------



## waynes world

No activity for the last 19 hours? This is a test to make sure that sean didn't get the thread locked or something


----------



## FastAndClean

we wait the 11.11 shipments


----------



## HungryPanda

I'll make a couple more earbuds tomorrow. My V2's


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> I'll make a couple more earbuds tomorrow. My V2's



The cables are in the country?


----------



## HungryPanda

Oh I don't know, I'll check


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> Oh I don't know, I'll check



Can't make them without the cables.  It is only the tuning papers that came today...and that other bud for you.


----------



## HungryPanda

Cannot track the cables all I know is they have left China


----------



## j4100

Wish I could be arsed recabling, but I would need to find my soldering iron first. Plus I'm really lazy.

Still waiting on the rest of my deliveries and still parted from my Svara-L until Friday! Bonus is a gig ahead on Thursday.


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> Wish I could be arsed recabling, but I would need to find my soldering iron first. Plus I'm really lazy.
> 
> Still waiting on the rest of my deliveries and still parted from my Svara-L until Friday! Bonus is a gig ahead on Thursday.



So sad that you have no buds to listen to in the meantime

This project is more than recabling... it is building the buds.  HungryPanda buds.

Who will you see on Thursday?


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> So sad that you have no buds to listen to in the meantime



I know, I'm distraught.



mbwilson111 said:


> This project is more than recabling... it is building the buds.  HungryPanda buds.
> 
> Who will you see on Thursday?



Patiently waiting to see the results. Go HungryPanda.


----------



## ShabtabQ

Whenever I buy a Vido someone or the other always requests to take and and I had to give. Arghhhh!!!


----------



## mbwilson111

ShabtabQ said:


> Whenever I buy a Vido someone or the other always reaurequ to take and and I had to give. Arghhhh!!!



Maybe you need to order 10 at a time


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

How are the Vidos?  Good buds?  They are very very cheap cost-wise...


----------



## DBaldock9

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> How are the Vidos?  Good buds?  They are very very cheap cost-wise...



Yes, the Vido earbuds do sound good (especially if re-wired) - but there are now other sub-$10 earbud options that some people prefer.


----------



## Aiwonsi

Hello guys, I received Svara-l 32ohms(actually 42 ohms when metered) but it too bright for me. I like Dx3s more than svara. If I want Dx3s with more bass. Is EBX more fit for me ?


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> No activity for the last 19 hours? This is a test to make sure that sean didn't get the thread locked or something


What have I done now 


Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> How are the Vidos?  Good buds?  They are very very cheap cost-wise...


They sound solid, something very nice about the tonal balance with thin foams and of course the full low end. Although the signature doesn't bring out the best of imaging or make vocals pop. But it's quite a nice bud to have as an all rounder rough use pair.


----------



## waynes world

Aiwonsi said:


> Hello guys, I received Svara-l 32ohms(actually 42 ohms when metered) but it too bright for me. I like Dx3s more than svara. If I want Dx3s with more bass. Is EBX more fit for me ?



Have yours been burned in at all? Which foams are you using? What is your source? Thanks.


----------



## Aiwonsi (Nov 27, 2018)

waynes world said:


> Have yours been burned in at all? Which foams are you using? What is your source? Thanks.


I burned about 50 hrs, using thick full foam, and poorly source like spotify premium, 192k-320k online radio, and youtube via Sony xz(phone) sometime using htc usbc cable . Listen to fusion jazz, heavy metal, Pink floyd, Japan Taiwan pop-rock, Indian slow EDM.

I like the sound of HD650 but not buy it because inconvenience for me and too expensive lol.


----------



## golov17

waynes world said:


> No activity for the last 19 hours? This is a test to make sure that sean didn't get the thread locked or something


CF2 on the way )))


----------



## Marcos Fontana

ShabtabQ said:


> Whenever I buy a Vido someone or the other always requests to take and and I had to give. Arghhhh!!!


RY4S? They are awesome for $8.


----------



## doggiemom

mbwilson111 said:


> Don't worry.  When you figure out what iem you want, you can come back here and pick out a nice bud  I enjoy both....and headphones!


I was legit confused as I’ve been out of the iem market for a while, but for buds i would reply semi-competently.


----------



## ShabtabQ

Marcos Fontana said:


> RY4S? They are awesome for $8.


I have ordered a RY4S which is on it's way.


----------



## redkingjoe

The Shozy BK is really something! Nice sound!


----------



## fairx

My 11.11 tin audio t2 arrived today. It will replace my ailing e80 / xe800 . Very good sound for the price I got 27usd.

But nowhere near the value / SQ of many earbuds I own. Guess I'm a full fledge earbud guy now. Only RHA seems to sways me recently lol. 

Well iem is for isolation anyway. For commute and occasional flight time.


----------



## ShabtabQ

redkingjoe said:


> The Shozy BK is really something! Nice sound!


That player wowww


----------



## golov17

390 usd


----------



## snip3r77

mbwilson111 said:


> Maybe you need to order 10 at a time


Just received the ry4s with UE . Pretty happy with this. 

Hmm now I’m thinking of the vanilla ry4s if the sub bass is vido level lol.


----------



## Snowball0906

May I know which earbud do you guys recommend that have sweet vocal and warm sounding? Sweet vocal as in when I listen to it, there’s a sweet taste generated in my mouth.. (not sure if you guys have been through it) I’m using Fiio Q1 mk2


----------



## fairx

Snowball0906 said:


> May I know which earbud do you guys recommend that have sweet vocal and warm sounding? Sweet vocal as in when I listen to it, there’s a sweet taste generated in my mouth.. (not sure if you guys have been through it) I’m using Fiio Q1 mk2


What song do you recommend? I will try to make few assessment


----------



## seanc6441

Snowball0906 said:


> May I know which earbud do you guys recommend that have sweet vocal and warm sounding? Sweet vocal as in when I listen to it, there’s a sweet taste generated in my mouth.. (not sure if you guys have been through it) I’m using Fiio Q1 mk2


Any earbud plus a sugar cube should work!

Kidding, maybe consider the new rose Masya pro? The original masya had very sweet forward vocals and a warmish bass with thick foams.

I think the higher the output impendance of the source the warmer it sounds. So you need a good source pairing for it to take on the tonality you desire. Low OI will make it leaner and colder.


----------



## Snowball0906

fairx said:


> What song do you recommend? I will try to make few assessment



Any songs by Aimer and One Ok Rock  Thank you in advance!


----------



## Snowball0906

seanc6441 said:


> Any earbud plus a sugar cube should work!
> 
> Kidding, maybe consider the new rose Masya pro? The original masya had very sweet forward vocals and a warmish bass with thick foams.
> 
> I think the higher the output impendance of the source the warmer it sounds. So you need a good source pairing for it to take on the tonality you desire. Low OI will make it leaner and colder.



Tried with sugar cube! haha. Okok. I'll look into it hehe. I have the AR-M2 to drive the buds as well. Do u think it will be sufficient?


----------



## jogawag (Nov 28, 2018)

Snowball0906 said:


> May I know which earbud do you guys recommend that have sweet vocal and warm sounding? Sweet vocal as in when I listen to it, there’s a sweet taste generated in my mouth.. (not sure if you guys have been through it) I’m using Fiio Q1 mk2


I recommend Boarseman MX98S which is sweet, but still balanced. It sounds a bit like Blox TM9.


----------



## seanc6441

Snowball0906 said:


> Tried with sugar cube! haha. Okok. I'll look into it hehe. I have the AR-M2 to drive the buds as well. Do u think it will be sufficient?


Just looked it up and it has 10 ohm OI which is very high for a dap. That will definitely make the masya take on a warmer tonality. My iphone 6s was 4.7ohm out and my lg v30 is around 1 ohm out. Even that 3.7 ohm difference made a noticeable change. Bass is fuller on the 6s, which in turn balances the whole spectrum much more. On the v30 is was very lean, overly so.

So i think your source will bring out a lot of warmth in the low end of the masya which is what you want, paired with the forward  'eurphoric' vocal presentation (how i would describe it anyway haha) i think it will be a good choice!


----------



## mbwilson111

jogawag said:


> I recommend Boarseman MX98S which is sweet, but still balanced. It sounds a bit like Blox TM9.



I have the Boarseman MX98, not the S.  Would you call it sweet as well?  I has been ages since I listened to it.  When I got it I was struggling with all the buds with that shell size (Monk+ etc).   I have no problem with that shell now and should revisit my older buds.  Maybe my ears have stretched?  Or, maybe I have just finally learned how to position them...


----------



## Zerohour88 (Nov 28, 2018)

Snowball0906 said:


> Any songs by Aimer and One Ok Rock  Thank you in advance!



Taka's vocals is just so amazing. Trying it out with both EBX and TO180, the latter is definitely warmer and more impactful at the low end but the EBX just has more clarity up top.

Sadly I don't think "sweet" is the word I'd use to describe them. I kinda get that part since I can call vocals on the CA Andromeda as sweet, but that's an IEM.


----------



## jogawag

mbwilson111 said:


> I have the Boarseman MX98, not the S.  Would you call it sweet as well?  I has been ages since I listened to it.  When I got it I was struggling with all the buds with that shell size (Monk+ etc).   I have no problem with that shell now and should revisit my older buds.  Maybe my ears have stretched?  Or, maybe I have just finally learned how to position them...


Sorry, I don't have the Boarseman MX98, so I can't call it sweet as well...


----------



## fairx

Snowball0906 said:


> Any songs by Aimer and One Ok Rock  Thank you in advance!


I dont have any One OK Rock but I have few Aimer track like ref:rain and such.

None of my earbud sounds remarkably sweet with those track. Good yes, but not really outstanding. The best sounding probably Auglamour Rx1 and Sharp MD. Other earbud owner perhaps can chip in. 

On other hand, Rx1 and Docomo sound very very seeet on track like Whiskey Lullaby by Alison Krauss or Wafairing Stranger by New Appalachians. IMO


----------



## fairx

jogawag said:


> I recommend Boarseman MX98S which is sweet, but still balanced. It sounds a bit like Blox TM9.


Boarseman name is back. I always curious. Hmm mmm


----------



## Snowball0906

fairx said:


> I dont have any One OK Rock but I have few Aimer track like ref:rain and such.
> 
> None of my earbud sounds remarkably sweet with those track. Good yes, but not really outstanding. The best sounding probably Auglamour Rx1 and Sharp MD. Other earbud owner perhaps can chip in.
> 
> On other hand, Rx1 and Docomo sound very very seeet on track like Whiskey Lullaby by Alison Krauss or Wafairing Stranger by New Appalachians. IMO



Thank you! Probably will give RX1 a try hehe. 



Zerohour88 said:


> Taka's vocals is just so amazing. Trying it out with both EBX and TO180, the latter is definitely warmer and more impactful at the low end but the EBX just has more clarity up top.
> 
> Sadly I don't think "sweet" is the word I'd use to describe them. I kinda get that part since I can call vocals on the CA Andromeda as sweet, but that's an IEM.




Indeed.. Really love Taka's voice. It really moved my heart. I will give  EBX a try.


----------



## mbwilson111

Snowball0906 said:


> Thank you! Probably will give RX1 a try hehe.



The RX1 is a beautifully designed earbud and comes with great accessories.  Lovely for vocals... and everything else.  BTW, if you do get it, the wooden block that it is packaged with is a phone stand when you turn it over  Someone in here once threw it away not realizing that


----------



## waynes world

Aiwonsi said:


> I burned about 50 hrs, using thick full foam, and poorly source like spotify premium, 192k-320k online radio, and youtube via Sony xz(phone) sometime using htc usbc cable . Listen to fusion jazz, heavy metal, Pink floyd, Japan Taiwan pop-rock, Indian slow EDM.
> 
> I like the sound of HD650 but not buy it because inconvenience for me and too expensive lol.



Fair enough! One thing I personally like about the Svara's treble is that seems nicely detailed, extended and well controlled (ie not harsh etc), which when combined with that bass, sounds wonderful to me. But you've burned your pair in well enough, and you're using thick foams (which should reduce the highs quite a bit), so I suppose they are just not for you. 

Let us know what you come up with!


----------



## Snowball0906

mbwilson111 said:


> The RX1 is a beautifully designed earbud and comes with great accessories.  Lovely for vocals... and everything else.  BTW, if you do get it, the wooden block that it is packaged with is a phone stand when you turn it over  Someone in here once threw it away not realizing that



Thanks for the headups!


----------



## Aiwonsi

waynes world said:


> Fair enough! One thing I personally like about the Svara's treble is that seems nicely detailed, extended and well controlled (ie not harsh etc), which when combined with that bass, sounds wonderful to me. But you've burned your pair in well enough, and you're using thick foams (which should reduce the highs quite a bit), so I suppose they are just not for you.
> 
> Let us know what you come up with!


Thanks Waynes, now I stuck on Dx3s and Thailand local brand " HAANJIK" ( monitor earbud ). I think I'll burning svara for 200 hrs.


----------



## rkw

golov17 said:


> 390 usd


Not familiar with Ucotech. Have they produced some notable earbuds in the past?


----------



## cathee

If anyone is interested in the Original Yuin PK1s for $65, feel free to PM me. I'm gonna put mine in the FS section later this evening.


----------



## j4100

Here's those red sandalwood mmcx buds I ordered. Sounding pretty good straight from the box.


----------



## j4100 (Nov 28, 2018)

...and my RY4S UE buds.



Edit: These buds are not short of bass! Rocking some Masters of Reality (with Ginger Baker on drums) and they're powering the tunes along.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

j4100 said:


> ...and my RY4S UE buds.
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: These buds are not short of bass! Rocking some Masters of Reality (with Ginger Baker on drums) and they're powering the tunes along.



I may be mistaken, but I'm fairly certain red ones are not the UE cable.  The Blue are though...


----------



## Qualcheduno

My Svara-L's arrived today. First impressions (with stock foams) without break-in: sounds like a baby HD58x, similar SS, but with slightly less extension and less slam in the bass, which is not a fair comparison since the latter is an over-ear headphone.


----------



## j4100

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> I may be mistaken, but I'm fairly certain red ones are not the UE cable.  The Blue are though...



Yeah, the red ones were on the description as silver HI. Whatever that means. However,  they do have a silver UE one which is also on it's way.


----------



## HungryPanda

Received my DIY PK2 SR2 16 ohm today, really nice


----------



## Willber

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> I may be mistaken, but I'm fairly certain red ones are not the UE cable.  The Blue are though...


Correct, the UE cable is brown in colour.


----------



## Willber

I am short of time, but here is a little teaser of recent purchases pending a fuller post:

Snow Lotus 1.0 - I made a mistake, they are great!
NiceHCK EB2 - very impressive, but...
EMX500 PK2 - similar to RY4S UE (same cable) but more comfortable shell.
**** PT25 - not yet delivered.


----------



## snip3r77

j4100 said:


> ...and my RY4S UE buds.
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: These buds are not short of bass! Rocking some Masters of Reality (with Ginger Baker on drums) and they're powering the tunes along.



How do you find the vanilla vs UE Cable?


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> Here's those red sandalwood mmcx buds I ordered. Sounding pretty good straight from the box.



Nice. I see that you also received the nicer cable than what was pictured on the sale page.



Willber said:


> Snow Lotus 1.0 - I made a mistake, they are great!



Good to hear.  Mine has arrived in the country.


----------



## snip3r77

Currently running in my RY4S UE, it's damn good out of the box. I think it's my best purchase of 2018. $6 is crazily value for money.


----------



## Grayson73

I received the RY4S (UE cable version) and the FAAEAL Snow Lotus 1.0 plus.  At first listen the RY4S was thin sounding and lacked bass because it didn't come with any foam covers.  I put the Snow Lotus covers on them and it helped so much.  Any idea why they didn't include any covers for the RY4S?  I feel bad for people who don't have any foam covers.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Grayson73 said:


> I received the RY4S (UE cable version) and the FAAEAL Snow Lotus 1.0 plus.  At first listen the RY4S was thin sounding and lacked bass because it didn't come with any foam covers.  I put the Snow Lotus covers on them and it helped so much.  Any idea why they didn't include any covers for the RY4S?  I feel bad for people who don't have any foam covers.


Possible oversight? My RY4S UE came with a small baggy with foams with it. Ended up using VE full foams. Sounds great!


----------



## Grayson73

PhonicSword said:


> Hey guys I've been trying to find a new portable audio device, and my current plan is to get a quality IEM and then get some open back headphones for use in my house down the line when I have more money. The problem is,there are too many IEMs and I'm a poor college student who doesn't have enough money to buy and try all of them so I'd really appreciate some help. I previously owned Audio Technica ATH-M50x, and I liked the sound of them but I just wanted the mids to come out more and the bass to be a tiny bit punchier. I think the signature is a mild V-shape but not sure since I am new to this.
> 
> I've tried to research on my own but it hasn't really helped, and I like to know what I am talking about before making a good purchase. Someone on reddit recommended the HiFi Boy OS V3 to me and it does look pretty appealing, but there isn't that much information comparing it to other IEMs in the same price range. I found some others that I'll list to see if anyone can recommend to me, but to be honest all of these (other than the HiFis) were taken off crinacle's IEM ranking list so I don't know if it's worth mentioning.
> 
> ...



I haven't tried a lot of the new ones, but my favorite under $100 was the Zero Audio Carbo Tenore with the MEE double flange tips.  The downside is the build quality, but mine are still going strong.  They aren't earbuds though, so wrong thread


----------



## golov17

rkw said:


> Not familiar with Ucotech. Have they produced some notable earbuds in the past?


ES903,1003,1103, EM905 and some old models..
https://www.ucotech.co.kr/


----------



## Grayson73 (Nov 28, 2018)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Possible oversight? My RY4S UE came with a small baggy with foams with it. Ended up using VE full foams. Sounds great!



Oh, I think my daughter must have put all the foam baggies together, lol.

So I have:

A.  One bag of 2 black full foams and 2 black donut foams
B.  One bag of 4 red full foams
C.  One bag with 4 black full foams and 2 red full foams.

Did the A and B come with the Snow Lotus 1.0 plus and C with the R4YS?

Also, does it matter which foams I put on which?  They seem similar


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 28, 2018)

j4100 said:


> ...and my RY4S UE buds.
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: These buds are not short of bass! Rocking some Masters of Reality (with Ginger Baker on drums) and they're powering the tunes along.


You should try them with a 1mm vent on the bass port... Notable bump in sub and mid bass adds some fullness to the low mids too. Sounds a little more open too. This as a result tames the strident highs, so I use them with thin foams, but get the bass levels similar to full foams. It's very nice!

It's one of those buds that actually responds well to a more open airflow.

So if you're keen on modding... You have one to tweak and one as your default to test against the modded pair


----------



## snip3r77

Grayson73 said:


> I received the RY4S (UE cable version) and the FAAEAL Snow Lotus 1.0 plus.  At first listen the RY4S was thin sounding and lacked bass because it didn't come with any foam covers.  I put the Snow Lotus covers on them and it helped so much.  Any idea why they didn't include any covers for the RY4S?  I feel bad for people who don't have any foam covers.



Mine came with it


----------



## Grayson73 (Nov 28, 2018)

Some quick observations between RY4S (UE) and Snow Lotus 1.0 Plus.  I tested on pop music out of my LG V20 phone.

Snow Lotus 1.0 Plus is more efficient than RY4S UE.  SL 1.0+ I play at 45 volume and RY4S I play at 60 volume.
SL 1.0+ has a warmer tone and more bass.  
The RY4S is more detailed.  The SL 1.0+ sounds like it has a veil in comparison.

The RY4S UE is the better earbud.  I just wish it had more bass.


----------



## snip3r77

Can anyone provide impression between vanilla vs UE RY4S


----------



## snip3r77

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> My order of an RY assortment arrived yesterday.  Here's what I'm finding...
> 
> *RY4S - the basic buds for $6 cdn.  These things sound great.  Nice deep bass but still a balanced and fairly open sound overall.  Better SQ than the Monk+ imho.  Cable is nice too. *
> 
> ...



Should I reach for my CC LMAO


----------



## PhonicSword

Grayson73 said:


> I haven't tried a lot of the new ones, but my favorite under $100 was the Zero Audio Carbo Tenore with the MEE double flange tips.  The downside is the build quality, but mine are still going strong.  They aren't earbuds though, so wrong thread


Yeah haha sorry I realized after I posted my previous message. And thanks for the response I'm definetly going to take a look at those!


----------



## j4100

Willber said:


> Correct, the UE cable is brown in colour.



...and silver...

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4...le-earphone-3-5mmTransparent/32949600689.html


----------



## j4100 (Nov 29, 2018)

Grayson73 said:


> Oh, I think my daughter must have put all the foam baggies together, lol.
> 
> So I have:
> 
> ...



The RY4S I got each came with 4 black and 2 red foams.



mbwilson111 said:


> Nice. I see that you also received the nicer cable than what was pictured on the sale page..



It does look like a nice cable, but I could have done with the wires above the splitter being straight.



snip3r77 said:


> How do you find the vanilla vs UE Cable?



I haven't compared them yet, plus I don't know what the difference is between the plain vanilla and the silver ones I got.


----------



## ShabtabQ

Just recieved the EB2 will give a good listen before giving any impression, first impression : impressed.


----------



## snip3r77

ShabtabQ said:


> Just recieved the EB2 will give a good listen before giving any impression, first impression : impressed.


Do you have Ry4s to compare lol


----------



## ShabtabQ

snip3r77 said:


> Do you have Ry4s to compare lol


RY4S UE cable is still on it's way, it reached my city so maybe 3 or 4 days more to reach me, I'll definitely compare these.


----------



## chinmie

soo..as this similar to earpods, it still counts as earbuds, right? 

finally found a true wireless earbuds that actually quite good!


----------



## Willber

j4100 said:


> ...and silver...
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4...le-earphone-3-5mmTransparent/32949600689.html


I can't see any mention of UE cable in that link.


----------



## ShabtabQ

chinmie said:


> soo..as this similar to earpods, it still counts as earbuds, right?
> 
> finally found a true wireless earbuds that actually quite good!



What are these?


----------



## chinmie

ShabtabQ said:


> What are these?



Sabbat X12 Pro


----------



## snip3r77

Willber said:


> I can't see any mention of UE cable in that link.


You need to select the option to see


----------



## snip3r77

ShabtabQ said:


> RY4S UE cable is still on it's way, it reached my city so maybe 3 or 4 days more to reach me, I'll definitely compare these.


My feel is eb2 is midcentric


----------



## Willber

snip3r77 said:


> You need to select the option to see


Ah, I see it now, thanks.


----------



## B9Scrambler

chinmie said:


> soo..as this similar to earpods, it still counts as earbuds, right?
> 
> finally found a true wireless earbuds that actually quite good!



What a hodgepodge of design, lol. I'm intrigued


----------



## RobinFood

Out of curiosity, what does the UE in the RY4S UE cable stand for, anyways? 

I originally assumed it stood for Ultimate Ears, maybe they had really nice cables that were transplanted or something, but the Ultimate Ears stock cables don't look anything like it...


----------



## chinmie

B9Scrambler said:


> What a hodgepodge of design, lol. I'm intrigued




 

I'm also a bit worried how it would look and fit, but i kinda dig it: looks like regular IEM from the outside, sounds like an earbud. at least it's better looking and more secure than the stem look of the airpod


----------



## fairx

seanc6441 said:


> You should try them with a 1mm vent on the bass port... Notable bump in sub and mid bass adds some fullness to the low mids too. Sounds a little more open too. This as a result tames the strident highs, so I use them with thin foams, but get the bass levels similar to full foams. It's very nice!
> 
> It's one of those buds that actually responds well to a more open airflow.
> 
> So if you're keen on modding... You have one to tweak and one as your default to test against the modded pair


I'm curious on how to do this. Any Pics? Tq


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 29, 2018)

fairx said:


> I'm curious on how to do this. Any Pics? Tq


I'll take some pics soon. I actually combined two mods, the resulting sound was something more like the tm9 but with a more energetic highs. The soundstage became very open, spacious.

Sadly the resulting bass boost from the bass port mod just cuts off short of the low mid dip (as expected since it's the bass that gets boosted up to around 200hz). So you still have that low vocal recession around 250-500.

But everything else takes one a very balanced neutral sound. Which is why I've bought 2 more ry4s to mod further.

You will be really impressed by how much clean bass these can deliver with the mods. Bass to match or surpass the willsound mk2 but with less bleed into the mids.


----------



## seanc6441

Grayson73 said:


> Some quick observations between RY4S (UE) and Snow Lotus 1.0 Plus.  I tested on pop music out of my LG V20 phone.
> 
> Snow Lotus 1.0 Plus is more efficient than RY4S UE.  SL 1.0+ I play at 45 volume and RY4S I play at 60 volume.
> SL 1.0+ has a warmer tone and more bass.
> ...


It's got tonnes of bass but the default tuning is too restrictive of airflow. Check my last few posts about modding them. You'll be impressed by how much bass you can get out of these.

I have become really dependant on having the bassiest earbuds after hearing the ks black ling. Any bass lite earbuds just leave me disappointed now.

The ry4s after mods are close to the bass levels of the black ling, it's very satisfying deep punchy bass, with no bleed into the mids.


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> soo..as this similar to earpods, it still counts as earbuds, right?
> 
> finally found a true wireless earbuds that actually quite good!



I have read that bluetooth radiation is not a concern, but I can't help but feel a bit of trepidation about having bluetooth receivers right in my ears (which is another reason I like the ES100). Then again, I use bluetooth headphones quite often, so obviously I should be ignored lol!


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> I have read that bluetooth radiation is not a concern, but I can't help but feel a bit of trepidation about having bluetooth receivers right in my ears (which is another reason I like the ES100). Then again, I use bluetooth headphones quite often, so obviously I should be ignored lol!



i heard radiation might give you superpowers 

now that i'm using this true wireless earphones more often, i only use my wired ones on my computer desk or when I'm on my bed before sleeping. using wired with my phone or dac gave me frequent heart attack because i kept snagging the cable or accidentally pulled my phone of the table when i stand up


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> i heard radiation might give you superpowers
> 
> now that i'm using this true wireless earphones more often, i only use my wired ones on my computer desk or when I'm on my bed before sleeping. using wired with my phone or dac gave me frequent heart attack because i kept snagging the cable or accidentally pulled my phone of the table when i stand up



Brain cancer or heart failure. I was going to say "flip a coin", but I think I'm gonna to stick with the cables!


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

My BTR1 is a nearly perfect (I have a BTR1k on order right now  ) bluetooth solution afaic.  It provides great sound in a super compact form and I can use whatever buds I want to use at any given time.  If I need to I can easily tie up the excess cable so it doesn't get caught up on things...


----------



## Marcos Fontana

seanc6441 said:


> It's got tonnes of bass but the default tuning is too restrictive of airflow. Check my last few posts about modding them. You'll be impressed by how much bass you can get out of these.
> 
> I have become really dependant on having the bassiest earbuds after hearing the ks black ling. Any bass lite earbuds just leave me disappointed now.
> 
> The ry4s after mods are close to the bass levels of the black ling, it's very satisfying deep punchy bass, with no bleed into the mids.


Could you share your mods?


----------



## phower

waynes world said:


> I have read that bluetooth radiation is not a concern, but I can't help but feel a bit of trepidation about having bluetooth receivers right in my ears (which is another reason I like the ES100). Then again, I use bluetooth headphones quite often, so obviously I should be ignored lol!


Bluetooth RF power is 500 times weaker than the RF power radiated by a smartphone. Talking on the smartphone while holding it to the ear is a concern. So, using Bluetooth is actually safer.


----------



## seanc6441

Marcos Fontana said:


> Could you share your mods?


Will do tomorrow. I'll take some pics and stuff.


----------



## DBaldock9

After Lunch today, I switched over from some Remax RM-600M earphones (on my M0), to some NiceHCK DIY Graphene (2017) earbuds on my ES100, and I've been streaming a Spotify Acoustic Christmas Playlist.
These DIY Graphene earbuds do a good job of presenting a big, open, natural sounding Sound Stage.


----------



## waynes world (Nov 29, 2018)

DBaldock9 said:


> After Lunch today, I switched over from some Remax RM-600M earphones (on my M0), to some NiceHCK DIY Graphene (2017) earbuds on my ES100, and I've been streaming a Spotify Acoustic Christmas Playlist.
> These DIY Graphene earbuds do a good job of presenting a big, open, natural sounding Sound Stage.



You are referring to these "old" $29 ones, right? Mine broke quite a while ago, and at the time they were my favorite buds. I've wanted to get a replacement pair ever since but have been able to put it off. Probably not now though - darn you! 

Edit: there is no cheap shipping to Canada available. Probably due to the Canada Post strike. So it looks like I will have to put it off for a little while longer!


----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> You are referring to these "old" $29 ones, right? Mine broke quite a while ago, and at the time they were my favorite buds. I've wanted to get a replacement pair ever since but have been able to put it off. Probably not now though - darn you!
> 
> Edit: there is no cheap shipping to Canada available. Probably due to the Canada Post strike. So it looks like I will have to put it off for a little while longer!



Those are the ones - I've got the set with the black shells and 3.5mm plug.
I ordered them on 05-DEC-17, and they arrived just before I left on my Christmas Holiday trip to my Sister's house in Mississippi.
During the last year, the wires have turned pretty green, where they loop over my ears (I wear all of my earbuds with the cable over-the-ear).


----------



## Grayson73

Sensitivity.  Snow Lotus 1.0 Plus at 38 volume, RY4S at 49, VE Monk (original) at 55

I think the RY4S has the best sound quality and clarity, but sound sig wise, it might prefer SL 1.0+ or Monk because they have more bass.  I don't think I want to mod it though, because I'm looking for a cheap earbud that I can buy a lot of to give as a Christmas gift.


----------



## ShabtabQ (Nov 30, 2018)

So one of my friend he blasts off music on his ears, so I wanted to know if it's bad for an earbud and IEM if played on loud volume for sometime.

He tried my EB2 and maxed out his ohone volume, so much that me sitting beside him vould hear the music, and now I am having a feeling that sound is distorted dont know if itsi placebo.


----------



## subwoof3r

Hey everybody,

Yesterday I finally decided to switch from ali foams to VE thin foams (the same ones as purposed to both Blox TM9 and YIN packages).
Now I clearly understand why they were purposed by Woo with them.
It's like I'm listening to another earbuds, Now, I'm just in an audio heaven with the YIN !

There is now no longer any single issue with the highs.
Sparkle, and fine details are now there (without any kind of sibilance at all). Overall sound is now much more homogeneous, everything is at a real TOTL level this time.
Also, soundstage seems even more large and deep. Now I definitely believe and join @ClieOS about those Blox beeing one of the best in term of soundstage from any earbuds till now.
The only cons with those VE thin foams is that the bass is now very slightly lacking some presence (but not by much! there is still subbass presence).

So, definitely, YIN is made to be heard with extreme thin foams to truly appreciate its sound quality.
Personally this is for now the only earbuds I don't see any issue at all. To me, those YIN sound close to perfection.

This time @seanc6441 I can confirm you that mids are much less congested, they turned to be now fuller and have much more presence than TM9. You really should try the upgrade if you can


----------



## ClieOS

Congrats on finally hearing the soul of your TM9.


----------



## snip3r77

Seems like great review for ourart acg at FB. They claim it’s a giant killer


----------



## snip3r77




----------



## kurtextrem (Nov 30, 2018)

I'm now a proud owner of a MoonDrop Liebesleid!

The sound is quite similar to the TO400s and perfectly my type of sound. At 0 hours burn-in I'd rate the Liebesleid over the TO400s, but not by much. Everything sounds fuller, more bass, but not day and night. I payed around 50$ for TO400s and 200$ for the Liebesleid. I guess I will have to buy the TO600 and/or Ourart ACG to compare lol
The Liebesleid has a slightly larger housing and the fit is slightly worse compared to the TO400s. 

Apart from everything sounds "more alive", details / separation is better, soundstage slightly better.


----------



## 40760

New Rose Masya or OURART ACG as the new king of soundstage?


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 30, 2018)

palestofwhite said:


> New Rose Masya or OURART ACG as the new king of soundstage?


Probably ACG. It's probably a TI7 with enhanced treble, so more detail and separation. The imaging was already top class in Ti7, soundstage was intimate but still spacious.

But I'm guessing the masya pro has better quality and impactful bass, thus more balanced overall.

I still think ourart should make a dual driver with ACG driver and a high quality bass driver. It would sound $1000


----------



## HungryPanda

I have the original Ti7 and it has more than enough treble


----------



## silverfishla

snip3r77 said:


>


This one I will get because I liked the original a lot.  The vocals on the original OurArt were one of my favorites of all my buds.


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> I have the original Ti7 and it has more than enough treble


It does but I wouldn't call it bright, i think ACG was tuned for detail retreival and thus will be brighter.

Though the TI7 had the best quality 'darker' treble as it was super consistent.


----------



## seanc6441

silverfishla said:


> This one I will get because I liked the original a lot.  The vocals on the original OurArt were one of my favorites of all my buds.


The timbre was unreal. Reminded me of my HD540ii open backs, and those were legendary for their realistic timbre.


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm listening to them now and they are wonderful. I use donut foams and wear them over ear


----------



## waynes world

ShabtabQ said:


> So one of my friend he blasts off music on his ears, so I wanted to know if it's bad for an earbud and IEM if played on loud volume for sometime.



Not sure if it's bad for the earbud, but it's probably pretty bad for his hearing!


----------



## ShabtabQ

waynes world said:


> Not sure if it's bad for the earbud, but it's probably pretty bad for his hearing!



After some more listening I can confirm it was just a placebo, and sure it is bad for him but he wouldn't listen.


----------



## ClieOS

My 11.11 package has finally arrived.




 
K's Titanium Ling, or formally named as "Bell-Ti" - the build quality is quite stunning.



 
The titanium finishing isn't completely smooth and actually offer some friction, so it will not slip out of ears so easily - However, an IMPORTANT note is that the Bell-Ti is tuned with using foam (full or donut) in mind for the best sound. The leather case feel extermely well made too.




 
Another of my early Christmas gift - the new Rose Masya 2 (left). The build quality has certainly improved when compared to the original Masya.


----------



## ClieOS

Rose Masya 2 (a.k.a. Masya Pro)
Google Glass earbuds (reterminated with mmcx)
K's Bell-Ti 32ohm Low Impedance Edition
K's Bell-Ti 120ohm High Impedance Edition


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 30, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> Rose Masya 2 (a.k.a. Masya Pro)
> Google Glass earbuds (reterminated with mmcx)
> K's Bell-Ti 32ohm Low Impedance Edition
> K's Bell-Ti 120ohm High Impedance Edition


Do the 32 and 120 ohm sound different? How is the SQ compared to black ling and Poseidon.

I'm wondering if the mids are more neutral/refined than the black ling and if the low mids-upper bass is more beefy. I found the black ling to be a bit too recessed in that region.

Also there was a dip at 3khz that really affected the detail retrieval and once it was removed via EQ the mids became more resolving and natural. Is this dip fixed in the bell-ti?

Sorry It's a lot of questions but at the asking price these would need to be 'perfect' and not just really good 

They look amazing just wondering if the sound is top tier and improved over the Ling and Poseidon.


----------



## ClieOS (Nov 30, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Do the 32 and 120 ohm sound different? How is the SQ compared to black ling and Poseidon.
> 
> I'm wondering if the mids are more neutral/refined than the black ling and if the low mids-upper bass is more beefy. I found the black ling to be a bit too recessed in that region.
> 
> ...



I just started the burn-in process so everything I said here might or might not be 100% accurate a few days from now- that being said - (1) the first impression is that the high and low impedance version do sound quite similar. I'll say the high impedance version is ever so slightly more matured and refined while the low impedance version sounds just a tiny bit more energetic, but the difference is rather subtle. You might not have noticed it if not paying attention.(2) I think K's own assessment that the Bell-Ti is Poseidon's (as well as Black Ling's) upgrade is fair. Both version sound fantastic new out of the box and immediately I prefer both version over the old K's flagships. (3) The new Bell-Ti are probably the most neutral in tuning compared to the older K's flagship - but they are not completely neutral as they still has a warmish tone that is known to be K's house sound. However, they are very well balanced as far as the overall frequency distribution goes. Compared to the older K's, which mostly has a smoother upper range and slightly tilting to the mid~lower end, the Bell-Ti's treble can actually be said to be somewhat crisp and detailed.


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> I just started the burn-in process so everything I said here might or might not be 100% accurate a few days from now- that being said - (1) the first impression is that the high and low impedance version do sound quite similar. I'll say the high impedance version is ever so slightly more matured and refined while the low impedance version sounds just a tiny bit more energetic, but the difference is rather subtle. You might not have noticed it if not paying attention.(2) I think K's own assessment that the Bell-Ti is Poseidon's (as well as Black Ling's) upgrade is fair. Both version sound fantastic new out of the box and immediately I prefer both version over the old K's flagships. (3) The new Bell-Ti are probably the most neutral in tuning compared to the older K's flagship - but they are not completely neutral as they still has a warmish tone that is known to be K's house sound. However, they are very well balanced as far as the overall frequency distribution goes. Compared to the older K's, which mostly has a smoother upper range and slightly tilting to the mid~lower end, the Bell-Ti's treble can actually be said to be somewhat crisp and detailed.


That's promising, sounds like the improvement I was hoping for.


----------



## golov17

Venture Electronics VE Basic 0.78 2pin to 3.5SE 2.5trrs 3.5trrs Pure Blue Cable 
http://s.aliexpress.com/2AfaEBBj


----------



## snip3r77

silverfishla said:


> This one I will get because I liked the original a lot.  The vocals on the original OurArt were one of my favorites of all my buds.


OutArt is midcentric?


----------



## j4100

golov17 said:


> Venture Electronics VE Basic 0.78 2pin to 3.5SE 2.5trrs 3.5trrs Pure Blue Cable
> http://s.aliexpress.com/2AfaEBBj



I'm using that with my ZOE. Great cable.


----------



## HungryPanda

The OurArt Ti7 are in my ears right now and I could swear I'm listening to a full sized headphone they have such a full sound


----------



## chinmie

HungryPanda said:


> The OurArt Ti7 are in my ears right now and I could swear I'm listening to a full sized headphone they have such a full sound



please don't say things like that...


i already have too much earphone purchases this month


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 30, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> OutArt is midcentric?


Mid centric yes. Not particularly dynamic sounding but it's a midrange done right. No overly forward vocals, not recessed either. Smooth but detailed. Musical enough but still has that dry-airy quality that you look for in a reference tuned headphone.

As I said it's like the vintage high end headphone tuning, maybe not impressive in terms of extension or dynamics but the tonality is very realistic.


----------



## toear

HungryPanda said:


> The OurArt Ti7 are in my ears right now and I could swear I'm listening to a full sized headphone they have such a full sound



Can you please confirm how the bass presence/extension is? I've been eyeing them forever but was hesitant because I have read so many reviews that it is bass light... Bass compared to vido or emx or Samsara? Thank you for any insight and clarity!


----------



## toear

Oops. You posted as I was posting... Thanks for the details.


----------



## FastAndClean

HungryPanda said:


> The OurArt Ti7 are in my ears right now and I could swear I'm listening to a full sized headphone they have such a full sound


i am waiting the ACG version, i have balanced cable ready for them


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 30, 2018)

toear said:


> Oops. You posted as I was posting... Thanks for the details.


I don't know if you are waiting for panda to reply but the bass is not anywhere near vido levels. It's got enough mid bass-upper bass for a full lower frequency tonality but the sub bass is severly rolled off. It doesn't even have that punchy bass you get with buds like shozy bk or other moderately bassy buds.

It's just not capable of delivering deep bass. If it was it would be the best earbud under $150 for a neutral-darker signature.


----------



## silverfishla

snip3r77 said:


> OutArt is midcentric?


I would say so.  And good in the upper ranges too.  Bit shy on bass for an earbud, that’s wh I’m interested in the new one.  One of my favorite looking buds.  Unique.


----------



## HungryPanda

Bass is fine just not as heavy as a V-shaped earbud


----------



## HungryPanda

I am using a good desktop dac/amp and I think it feeds the Ti7 very well, I have found that using the Linsoul BLD150 that when I take that out the amp and plug it into my iBasso DX200 I get much more bass


----------



## toear

Ok thank you for the clarification. Given our previous conversations/posts I think I need a but that leans more on the bass head side... Panda has sources that can bring the bass out. I don't know that I do...

Much appreciated!



seanc6441 said:


> I don't know if you are waiting for panda to reply but the bass is not anywhere near vido levels. It's got enough mid bass-upper bass for a full lower frequency tonality but the sub bass is severly rolled off. It doesn't even have that punchy bass you get with buds like shozy bk or other moderately bassy buds.
> 
> It's just not capable of delivering deep bass. If it was it would be the best earbud under $150 for a neutral-darker signature.


----------



## mochill

chinmie said:


> please don't say things like that...
> 
> 
> i already have too much earphone purchases this month


You need blox  earphones and the ufoears ufo-112


----------



## chinmie

mochill said:


> You need blox  earphones and the ufoears ufo-112



i heard the bass is really special on the ufo. I'll pass on the blox until i hear it myself. i almost made the mistake on the TM9 based on my friends reviews, it turns out it's not my preferenced sound


----------



## mochill

chinmie said:


> i heard the bass is really special on the ufo. I'll pass on the blox until i hear it myself. i almost made the mistake on the TM9 based on my friends reviews, it turns out it's not my preferenced sound


Maybe you'll like the new tm9,  and yes ufo112 bass makes me feel like I have my asg1plus back,  it was my endgame.


----------



## chaiyuta

ClieOS said:


> I just started the burn-in process so everything I said here might or might not be 100% accurate a few days from now- that being said - (1) the first impression is that the high and low impedance version do sound quite similar. I'll say the high impedance version is ever so slightly more matured and refined while the low impedance version sounds just a tiny bit more energetic, but the difference is rather subtle. You might not have noticed it if not paying attention.(2) I think K's own assessment that the Bell-Ti is Poseidon's (as well as Black Ling's) upgrade is fair. Both version sound fantastic new out of the box and immediately I prefer both version over the old K's flagships. (3) The new Bell-Ti are probably the most neutral in tuning compared to the older K's flagship - but they are not completely neutral as they still has a warmish tone that is known to be K's house sound. However, they are very well balanced as far as the overall frequency distribution goes. Compared to the older K's, which mostly has a smoother upper range and slightly tilting to the mid~lower end, the Bell-Ti's treble can actually be said to be somewhat crisp and detailed.


Thanks for your first sight impression. I am looking forward to your further burn-in passed impression.  BTW I heard that SVARA plans to release the revised SVARA-L and SVARA-M in this month. Moreover, I see ZEVA 490 Ohm earbuds in taobao. There are 3.5, 2.5 and 4.4 mm version. Customer feedbacks look mainly positive. May I know your thought on this ZEVA brand?


----------



## ClieOS (Dec 1, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> Thanks for your first sight impression. I am looking forward to your further burn-in passed impression.  BTW I heard that SVARA plans to release the revised SVARA-L and SVARA-M in this month. Moreover, I see ZEVA 490 Ohm earbuds in taobao. There are 3.5, 2.5 and 4.4 mm version. Customer feedbacks look mainly positive. May I know your thought on this ZEVA brand?



Svara is really more of an ever evolving brand. The maker like to keep improving his products as he is more of an engineer than a businessman. For what I know, there have been countless small variation along the way and the current version is definitely not 100% the same as the one I have.

Here is ZEVA 490ohm (also referred as 500ohm sometime), otherwaise known as DonHuang / "Eastern Emperor".
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2443#post-14544181

It is actually quite a good sounding ToTL earbuds, provided if you can drive it from a desktop amp as it is one of the most demanding earbuds I have ever listened. ZEVA makes really good and bang for the bucks earbuds. I highly recommend its Dragon 2.0 - which is far easier to drive and has a rare sound signature that combined big soundstage with a very delicated vocal. It is also very much a ToTL level earbud but very affordable. The only downside is that there is a long waiting list even on Taobao.


----------



## golov17 (Dec 1, 2018)

YINcoming  Thx @ClieOS 
Everything is cool!


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> YIN incoming



No, you mean YINcoming


----------



## golov17

ClieOS said:


> No, you mean YINcoming


Nice )))))))


----------



## rkw

ShabtabQ said:


> He tried my EB2 and maxed out his ohone volume, so much that me sitting beside him vould hear the music, and now I am having a feeling that sound is distorted dont know if itsi placebo.





ShabtabQ said:


> After some more listening I can confirm it was just a placebo, and sure it is bad for him but he wouldn't listen.


TALK LOUDER BECAUSE HE CAN'T HEAR YOU


----------



## chompy

Hi,

I've been out of earbud world for a while and I keep using my Tomahawks (which I prefer to the Yun Pk3, Edifier H180, Edifier H185 and original VE Monk that I also have)... I see there are lots of new options since then, but could you please help me telling me what are the best options right now if I'm looking for a V shaped earbud (I like deep impactful bass but with nice and cristal clear highs, similar to my Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro)?

My ears are on the smaller side, I don't know if anything bigger than my Tomahawks would fit...


----------



## snip3r77

chompy said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've been out of earbud world for a while and I keep using my Tomahawks (which I prefer to the Yun Pk3, Edifier H180, Edifier H185 and original VE Monk that I also have)... I see there are lots of new options since then, but could you please help me telling me what are the best options right now if I'm looking for a V shaped earbud (I like deep impactful bass but with nice and cristal clear highs, similar to my Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro)?
> 
> My ears are on the smaller side, I don't know if anything bigger than my Tomahawks would fit...



Try RY4S + UE Cable first and work from here.


----------



## mbwilson111

snip3r77 said:


> Try RY4S + UE Cable first and work from here.



If the Monk type shell fits him.


----------



## jogawag (Dec 1, 2018)

chompy said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've been out of earbud world for a while and I keep using my Tomahawks (which I prefer to the Yun Pk3, Edifier H180, Edifier H185 and original VE Monk that I also have)... I see there are lots of new options since then, but could you please help me telling me what are the best options right now if I'm looking for a V shaped earbud (I like deep impactful bass but with nice and cristal clear highs, similar to my Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro)?
> 
> My ears are on the smaller side, I don't know if anything bigger than my Tomahawks would fit...



Your ears are on the smaller side, So try "diy SR2 16ohms TPE wire".
https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801646835.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801265552.html
Choice 2nd color on eigther page.



Although small size PK type shell, this earbuds has V shaped sig with strong bass.
This earbuds need 100 hour burn-in.


----------



## HungryPanda

chompy said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've been out of earbud world for a while and I keep using my Tomahawks (which I prefer to the Yun Pk3, Edifier H180, Edifier H185 and original VE Monk that I also have)... I see there are lots of new options since then, but could you please help me telling me what are the best options right now if I'm looking for a V shaped earbud (I like deep impactful bass but with nice and cristal clear highs, similar to my Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro)?
> 
> My ears are on the smaller side, I don't know if anything bigger than my Tomahawks would fit...


 The Faaeal Datura X would be of interest


----------



## toear

HungryPanda said:


> The Faaeal Datura X would be of interest


I second this. Slightly warm but spacious and instrument separation is great!


----------



## mbwilson111

tronth said:


> Are these ones the right EMX500? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...Y-Earphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds/32887565850.html





BadReligionPunk said:


> Those are exactly what I bought,  and they sound really good. Like I am blown away with them.  Love them.



Ordered those FENGRU DIY EMX500 Bro today for £6.61, in red as pictured in the link above.  Really looking forward to them.


----------



## fairx

Today, while listening to Jean du Voyage punishing bass track I notice my ry4s UE left driver rattle. Noooo...

Testing using tone generator reveal that indeed 30-40hz creates the rattle.. just over 1 month use. I just hope it will settle over time like my qian


----------



## chompy

Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll take a look at them... Monk's shell is not the greatest for me, maybe that's because Monk doesn't sound good for me.

I've done a quick google search for Faaeal Datura X and I've found this review https://audiobudget.com/product/FAAEAL/Datura-X where their mids are "agressive" instead of recessed as I like, bass seems great with avarage highs, but everything has his/her own ears.


----------



## Lothar101

mbwilson111 said:


> Ordered those FENGRU DIY EMX500 Bro today for £6.61, in red as pictured in the link above.  Really looking forward to them.



I bet you will love them. I've had them about 3 months now and as much as I like my eb2's I really like the Bros for anything that requires deeper bass.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 1, 2018)

chompy said:


> Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll take a look at them... Monk's shell is not the greatest for me, maybe that's because Monk doesn't sound good for me.
> 
> I've done a quick google search for Faaeal Datura X and I've found this review https://audiobudget.com/product/FAAEAL/Datura-X where their mids are "agressive" instead of recessed as I like, bass seems great with avarage highs, but everything has his/her own ears.


I thought that mx500 shell sounded funny too but it turns out it's just the tuning of the driver in most cases. Some mx500 shell buds sound phenomenal. Plus the fact that it has a bigger cavity and good venting options makes it a great performer all round.

It's just the size that annoys me (thickness not diameter) but there's even solutions to that if you are prepared to mod your earbuds.

I still prefer the design of bell shaped earbuds (provided they are form fitting to the ear) but mx500 shell can be made very very good and confortable with a bit of diy and a good driver.


----------



## chompy

seanc6441 said:


> I thought that mx500 shell sounded funny too but it turns out it's just the tuning of the driver in most cases. Some mx500 shell buds sound phenomenal. Plus the fact that it has a bigger cavity and good venting options makes it a great performer all round.
> 
> It's just the size that annoys me (thickness not diameter) but there's even solutions to that if you are prepared to mod your earbuds.
> 
> I still prefer the design of bell shaped earbuds (provided they are form fitting to the ear) but mx500 shell can be made very very good and confortable with a bit of diy and a good driver.



Thanks, unfortunately I'm not a handyman and I would'nt know how start modding anything without destroying it... What would be your recommendation for a great out of the box V shaped earbud?


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 1, 2018)

chompy said:


> Thanks, unfortunately I'm not a handyman and I would'nt know how start modding anything without destroying it... What would be your recommendation for a great out of the box V shaped earbud?


All the budget ones with that sig take mx500 shell form. As it's cheap and easy to tune. The pk variants don't seem to offer a good V sig at this price point. The bass always seems to suffer extension issues compared to budget mx500 earbuds.

I really don't know of anything that's truly V shaped thats not mx500 shell under $50. Some will say certain pk buds have good bass but to my ears none really can match the extension of the $3 vido for instance, so I'm really struggling to think of any to recommend :/

My advice would be to await the release of the new budget model from K's which will probably be sub $50 and in their bell type housing. If it follows the tuning of the more fun tuned K's models it will be somewhat V shaped, with great bass presence and clear upper vocals and smooth but present treble.


----------



## subwoof3r

Here is the result of my new DIY stuffs for the past few days :


My *EMX500* DIY *v2.0* :
_(4 core silver plated cable / using my old EMX500S shells with the little holes on bass port)_






My *EMX500* DIY *v3.0* _(my favorite yet)_ :
_(8 core mixed silver & copper plated cable / EMX500 standard shells without holes on bass port)
_

This is my best details retrieval earbuds ever heard till date in term of sounding. Even my YIN and EBX are far away. I'm just amazed of what I've done 



And my *Blox YIN* as a bonus picture..


----------



## HungryPanda

Toneking TP16, Ty HI-Z, Toneking TP16 and the diy SR2 16 ohm that jogawag mentioned are all pretty V shaped earbuds that do not cost much


----------



## silverfishla

chompy said:


> Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll take a look at them... Monk's shell is not the greatest for me, maybe that's because Monk doesn't sound good for me.
> 
> I've done a quick google search for Faaeal Datura X and I've found this review https://audiobudget.com/product/FAAEAL/Datura-X where their mids are "agressive" instead of recessed as I like, bass seems great with avarage highs, but everything has his/her own ears.


Datura X is one of my favorites and is not aggressive in the mids.  It is well balanced all around with good energy still.
You can listen to Pop vocals or Rock and it satisfies.  Also keeps it’s quality at low volumes and you don’t have to shove them in your ears for them to sound good.  This one should be in everyone’s staple of buds.


----------



## HungryPanda

*subwoof3r*

Great job on the earbuds


----------



## BadReligionPunk

subwoof3r said:


> My *EMX500* DIY *v3.0* _(my favorite yet)_ :
> _(8 core mixed silver & copper plated cable / EMX500 standard shells without holes on bass port)
> _
> 
> This is my best details retrieval earbuds ever heard till date in term of sounding. Even my YIN and EBX are far away. I'm just amazed of what I've done



For some reason I keep hearing Billy Idols White Wedding while looking at this. 
Very Sexy!


----------



## snip3r77

Anyone knows which emx500s is the best?


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 2, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> Toneking TP16, Ty HI-Z, Toneking TP16 and the diy SR2 16 ohm that jogawag mentioned are all pretty V shaped earbuds that do not cost much


3 of those are mx500 unfortunately for him.

For me the sr2 is not a true V shape, the mids can be made to sound slightly recessed and the highs pronounced. But the bass doesn't hit deep like other earbuds I'd consider V shape so it's more a ~ shape to my ears.


snip3r77 said:


> Anyone knows which emx500s is the best?


My theory is they are all the same driver with slight tuning variantions in the shell and cable.


----------



## chompy

HungryPanda said:


> Toneking TP16, Ty HI-Z, Toneking TP16 and the diy SR2 16 ohm that jogawag mentioned are all pretty V shaped earbuds that do not cost much


Thanks again, unfortunately as seanc6441 said mx500 shells are not made for my ears.



silverfishla said:


> Datura X is one of my favorites and is not aggressive in the mids.  It is well balanced all around with good energy still.
> You can listen to Pop vocals or Rock and it satisfies.  Also keeps it’s quality at low volumes and you don’t have to shove them in your ears for them to sound good.  This one should be in everyone’s staple of buds.


Thanks, as they are quite cheap, I think I'll purchase one pair.



seanc6441 said:


> My advice would be to await the release of the new budget model from K's which will probably be sub $50 and in their bell type housing. If it follows the tuning of the more fun tuned K's models it will be somewhat V shaped, with great bass presence and clear upper vocals and smooth but present treble.


This new K's seems quite interesting, is there any scheduled date for it? And I could spend 100$ if the earbuds deserve it and the improvement over my current earbuds justifies its cost.

I forgot to say that altough I listed pop music from time to time (mostly from the 80s and the 90s), 90% of my listening is uplifting trance and similar electronic styles (from hardcore to dance, but not house), no rock, acoustic, nor classical.


----------



## jogawag

chompy said:


> Thanks again, unfortunately as seanc6441 said mx500 shells are not made for my ears.
> 
> 
> Thanks, as they are quite cheap, I think I'll purchase one pair.
> ...



If you can pay 60$ on V Shaped sig's earbuds with a small shell, I recommend moondrop vx pro.
This sounds naturally stretched bass and beautiful treble.


----------



## snip3r77 (Dec 3, 2018)

Old graphene vs any emx500(s) variants ?? Any feedback?

Thanks


----------



## RuFrost (Dec 3, 2018)

1) 





chompy said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've been out of earbud world for a while and I keep using my Tomahawks (which I prefer to the Yun Pk3, Edifier H180, Edifier H185 and original VE Monk that I also have)... I see there are lots of new options since then, but could you please help me telling me what are the best options right now if I'm looking for a V shaped earbud (I like deep impactful bass but with nice and cristal clear highs, similar to my Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro)?
> 
> My ears are on the smaller side, I don't know if anything bigger than my Tomahawks would fit...



try TY HI-Z AWK-F150TS. The best v-shaped earbuds I have ever heard. Truly miraculous sound with donuts. Huge soundstage, hard-hitting and impactful bass, crystal clear vocals, neutral sounding (not warm, not cold), but colouring sound a little bit whats perfectly works with over-all sound-signature. The cable is long and soft - one of the best to the day I have ever seen, especially for such cheap price...

Somehow, I see them on sale here, on headfi.Cannot recommend it more. I'm not the fan of V-shaped signature, so I sold it few months ago, though with serious regrets. New owner is very and very happy with it.

2) Guys! Any description or opinion on Linsoul BLD 150ohm ? How does it sound? what earbuds sounds similar to it? Does anybody know the price during the sale on ali?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Lin...arphone-4-4mm-2-5mm-Balanced/32869327378.html


----------



## j4100

RuFrost said:


> 2) Guys! Any description or opinion on Linsoul BLD 150ohm ? How does it sound? what earbuds sounds similar to it? Does anybody know the price during the sale on ali?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Lin...arphone-4-4mm-2-5mm-Balanced/32869327378.html



Pretty sure there have been impressions on here a while back. Try searching the thread.


----------



## rkw

Blox Yin with balanced cable has arrived.





Spoiler: LOL, declared value


----------



## mochill

Mine was $8


----------



## golov17

My 6 usd ))


----------



## snip3r77

Found this comparison at a local forums by *MoyoCase* bro. Enjoy.

just got the RY4S with dark metal braided cable

initial impression is positive. i will do a comparison with EMX500. both using thin monk VE foams

Th following sound charactistics are present and noticeable in both > what it means is that its present and not absent

the following is comparison of 2 earbuds. As a standalone each of them are good , very good for their price level .

> means Better , < lesser and = Same

Treble : RY4S < EMX 500
Sparkle : RY4S < EMX 500
Mid : RY4S < EMX500
Mid Bass : RY4S > Emx500
Sub Bass : RY4S = EMX500
Clarity : RY4S > EMX500
Layering : RY4S = EMX 500
Transparency: RY4S < EMX500
Vocals : RY4S < EMX500
Articulation: RY4S < EMX500
Musicality: RY4S < EMX500
Attack and Impact : RY4S < EMX500
Detail Reprodution : RY4S > EMX 500
Reverb / Decay : RY4S < EMX500

Soundstage

Accuracy / Positioning: RY4S > EMX500
Depth: RY4S < EMX500
Width : RY4S < EMX500
Height: RY4S > EMX500
Reverb, Accoustics: RY4S < EMX500
Ambience : RY4S = EMX500
Resolution: RY4S > EMX500
Positioning: RY4S > EMX500
Airiness : RY4S = EMX500
3D Air Space : RY4S ( More Left right, Up down ) , EMX500 = ( More forward back , deeper)
Sound movement : RY4S < EMX500

The main way EMX500 is better is sparkle , and aural / background acoustics which makes it better with more musicality and articulation due its reverb, depth and high-low articulation space. Some deficiencies in the RY4S ( a little less detail in sub bass, depth ect) makes it a little less engaging in sound than the EMX500 on certain recordings of poor source or olden style music

The EMX 500 seems to have a better depth soundstage at the expense of a little clarity in mids and bass but makes it up with Impact/attack and musicality due to its excellent sparkle airyness and sub bass extension combined with articulation. THe RY4S is almost similar but in a different way. Poor quality sources show up as poor and high quality source sound gets reproduced better. while the EMX500 does poor quality source reproduction better.

The main way RY4S is better in sound presentation being clinical and little flat or neutral / lack of colouration in the soundstage which makes it better in sound reproduction and clarity and positioning from a good clean/pure source. Its less harsh and less fatiguing than EMX500 to listen to mainly due to less distortion and slightly rolled off treble and less sparkle. However, there is enough treble and sparkle on its own. Soundstage depth is less prominent if these aspects are improved, the RY4S can beat the EMX 500

However, these sonic differences between the 2 are subtle except for the sparkle, soundstage , Impact and Attack. This may change as the RY4S gets burned in


----------



## ClieOS

chompy said:


> This new K's seems quite interesting, is there any scheduled date for it? And I could spend 100$ if the earbuds deserve it and the improvement over my current earbuds justifies its cost.



"Little Ling" has just been released on China. I should have it in about 2 weeks.


----------



## stimuz

got my samsara from the sale, it's pretty much what i was hoping it would be. dark and good bass. also seemingly large soundstage though my comparisons for earbuds are limited.


----------



## subwoof3r

rkw said:


> Blox Yin with balanced cable has arrived.





mochill said:


> Mine was $8





golov17 said:


> My 6 usd ))


So, first impressions about your YIN, guys?


----------



## chompy

ClieOS said:


> "Little Ling" has just been released on China. I should have it in about 2 weeks.



Great, waiting for your opinion. Thanks


----------



## j4100

Got my Hi-Z TY 150 today. Penon don't mess around with shipping. Nice chunky big plug.


----------



## snip3r77

My backup came.


----------



## chaiyuta

ClieOS said:


> "Little Ling" has just been released on China. I should have it in about 2 weeks.


Panda color looks cute~


----------



## Marcos Fontana (Feb 8, 2019)

Hello folks,

Since I'm watching this thread I made a small list of good earbuds:

Less than $5
VE Monk+                     ($3)    https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/venture-electronics-ve-monk-monk-plus.21516/reviews?page=2
VE Monk Lite                ($3)    https://www.soundphilereview.com/reviews/venture-electronics-monk-lite-review-1898/
Vido                        ($3)    https://www.head-fi.org/threads/absolute-best-budget-earbuds.812853/page-66

Less than $10          
QianYun Qian39                ($6)    https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/qianyun-qian39.21879/
Kube                               ($6)    no reviews yet
RY4S UE                        ($9)    https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ry4s-braided-cable.22928/reviews
Snow lotus 1.0                ($9)    no reviews yet
EMX500                        ($9)    https://www.head-fi.org/threads/absolute-best-budget-earbuds.812853/page-65 

Less than $20
Elibuds Sabia V3              ($10)    https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/eli-audio-sabia-v3-earbud.22143/ 
Elibuds Sabia V6              ($18)    https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2557#post-14666360
EMX500S                        ($11)    https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/fengru-diy-emx500s.23081/reviews
QianYum Qian69                ($11)    https://audiobudget.com/product/QianYun/Qian69
Snow lotus 2.0                ($15)    no reviews yet
Toneking TP16                ($16)    http://belogmegandonk.blogspot.com/2017/11/toneking-tp-16-review.html
diy SR2 16ohm TPE             ($15)    no reviews yet
YINCROW RW-9                 ($19)    http://reproductormp3.net/index.php?topic=27849.0

Less than $50
EarKube 2.0                  ($22)    https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kube-2.22577/reviews
HE 150 Pro                    ($29)    https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/he-150pro-by-he-hi-fi-end.22681/reviews
Willsound MK1/MK2/MK3        ($30)    https://aftersoundblog.wordpress.co...son-english-vers-mk1-mk2-mk3-mk300-pk16-pk32/
BGVP DX3s                    ($40)    https://www.soundphilereview.com/reviews/bgvp-dx3s-review-2811/
TY Hi-Z HP-150S                ($42)    https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ty-hi-z-150s.22531/reviews

Less than $100
Ourart Ti7/ACG                ($59)    https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ourart-ti7.22520/reviews https://penonaudio.com/ourart-acg.html
1MORE E1008                    ($69)    https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/1more1008-earbud.22232/reviews
Svara L 32ohms                ($70)    http://www.audiofight.ru/viewtopic.php?t=2891
VE Asura 2.0                      ($78)     https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/venture-electronics-asura-2-0.21336/reviews
Shozy Cygnus                   ($89)       https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/shozy-cygnus.21399/
TONEKING TO400s 400ohm        ($95)    https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/toneking-to400s.23345/reviews

Less than $150
Penon BS1                    ($109)    https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/penon-bs1-official-version.22858/reviews
TY Hi-Z HP-650 650Ohm        ($119)    https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ty-hi-z-650.21862/
NICEHCK EBX                    ($119)    https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-ebx.22771/reviews
Puresounds PS100-600    ($143)     https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/puresounds-ps100-600.22197/reviews
VE ZEN 2.0                    ($148)    https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/venture-electronics-ve-zen-v2.21181/reviews
K's K300                    ($149)    https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ks-300-samsara-version.22649/reviews
Rose Masya Pro                ($149)    https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/rose-masya.22316/reviews
Puresounds PS100-600    ($143)    https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/puresounds-ps100-600.22197/reviews
Less than $200
Shozy BK                    ($165)    https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/shozy-stardust.22043/reviews
Yinman 600                    ($177)    no reviews yet
VE ZEN Omega Edition        ($178)    https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/venture-electronics-ve-zen-v2.21181/reviews
Cypherus CampFred 2            ($199)    https://www.cypherusaudio.com/testimony


Above $200
Super Kryptonite            ($212)    no reviews yet, but seens to be SWD2+ contender
Cypherus ZoomFred            ($249)    no reviews yet
Cypherus ZoomFred Pro            ($373)    no reviews yet
Black Ling                    ($249)    no reviews yet
Rose Mojito                    ($259)    https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/rose-mojito.21655/reviews 
Blox Tm9/Yin(Newer)            ($272)    https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/blox-tm9.23346/reviews
Moondrop Liebesleid            ($294)    no reviews yet
SWD2+ Simphonio Dragon 2+    ($325)    https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/si...udiophile-hifi-earbuds-earphone.23166/reviews
Bell Ti 120ohms                ($334)    no reviews yet
UCOTECH                        ($395)    no reviews yet

Customized ($variable)
Blur earbuds                    Everybody like them! https://www.instagram.com/hennagaijin_boleh7/

This list will be updated at least once a week or more. This list was initial created to me to have a reference of good earbuds to buy. Remember that this list is not complete. We have amazing earbuds on the market waiting to be discovered.


----------



## jogawag (Dec 4, 2018)

Marcos Fontana said:


> Hello folks,
> 
> Since I'm watching this thread I made a small list of good earbuds:
> 
> ...



I will fix some.
Svara L -> Svara L 32ohms
SR2 150ohms -> SR2 15ohms tpe
Blur Tm9 -> Blox Tm9


----------



## golov17

Marcos Fontana said:


> Hello folks,
> 
> Since I'm watching this thread I made a small list of good earbuds:
> 
> ...


Where Blox Yin?? For me better than TM-9


----------



## Marcos Fontana

jogawag said:


> I will fix some.
> Svara L -> Svara L 32ohms
> SR2 150ohms -> SR2 15ohms tpe
> Blur Tm9 -> Blox Tm9


Sorry by my mistakes:

Snow lotus 1.0/2.0
RY4S UE
YINCROW RW-9
Svara L 32ohms
Qian39/69
Vido
SR2 15ohms tpe
Ourart Ti7/ACG
SWD2+
Shozy BK
HE 150 Pro
E1008
Yinman 600
Black Ling
Blox Tm9/(Yin)+++
Super Kryptonite
VE Zen
VE Zen LL
TY HI-z 150ohms/650ohms
Toneking TO400s
NiceHCK EBX
EMX500S

Added Yin with 3 plus  Thank you Golov!


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Final list with a small, but really small review:

RY4S UE (Arrived) amazing price/audio quality ratio! Do you need a good gift? this is the best!
EMX500S (Arrived) amazing price/audio quality ratio! Do you need a good gift? you can't go wrong with!
VE Zen 2.0 ZOE (Arrived) super neutral, pocket HD600?
VE Zen LL (Arrived) amazing, a lot of fun. I like it more than the Zen 2.0
TY HI-z 150ohms/650ohms (Arrived) irreplaceble, my best now! only some headphones can beat it
Toneking TO400s (Arrived) good but, restricted to some genres
NiceHCK EBX good but, restricted to some genres
Snow lotus 1.0/2.0 (Coming) maybe today!!!
YINCROW RW-9 (Coming)
Svara L 32ohms (Coming)
Qian39/69 (Coming)
Vido (Coming)
SR2 15ohms tpe (I will buy it)
Ourart Ti7/ACG (I will buy it)
SWD2+ (I will buy it)
Shozy BK (I will buy it)
HE 150 Pro (I will buy it)
E1008 (I will buy it)
Yinman 600 (I will buy it)
Black Ling (I will buy it)
Blox Tm9/(Yin)+++ (I will buy it)
Super Kryptonite (I will buy it)

In other words, I'm looking for something better than the Ty's. I love the Ty's sound signature.

I also bought the SHE 3800 from aliexpress "Philips" store. The worst earbuds that I already had (100% fake). I used the cable (bad cable) to replace the cable from a old Nokia earbud that I found inside a box.


----------



## chaiyuta

Bell-Ti has pretty good 41 positive feedbacks at its taobao product page.. pretty hyped.


----------



## j4100

Marcos Fontana said:


> Final list with a small, but really small review:
> 
> VE Zen 2.0 ZOE (Arrived) super neutral, pocket HD600?



FYI VE Zen 2.0 and VE ZOE are two different buds. ZOE has detachable cable.

Some nice buds there!


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Omg, I tought that ZOE was a Zen 2.0. I have the ZOE.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

chaiyuta said:


> Bell-Ti has pretty good 41 positive feedbacks at its taobao product page.. pretty hyped.


Do you have the URL for it?


----------



## j4100

Marcos Fontana said:


> Omg, I tought that ZOE was a Zen 2.0. I have the ZOE.



I don't have Zen 2.0, so I don't know what difference there is. Certainly with ZOE, you can change cables which may, or may not, affect sound.


----------



## jogawag

Marcos Fontana said:


> SR2 15ohms tpe (I will buy it)


I'm sorry. I mistook.
SR2 15ohms tpe -> SR2 16ohms tpe


----------



## Marcos Fontana

j4100 said:


> I don't have Zen 2.0, so I don't know what difference there is. Certainly with ZOE, you can change cables which may, or may not, affect sound.


I have the Oyaide102ssc but to say the truth, I didn't notice any difference until now.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

jogawag said:


> I'm sorry. I mistook.
> SR2 15ohms tpe -> SR2 16ohms tpe


Ty! Now my list is correct because of you  But, 16 or 150?


----------



## jogawag

Marcos Fontana said:


> Ty! Now my list is correct because of you  But, 16 or 150?


"16" is correct.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

jogawag said:


> "16" is correct.


I got it. Which one is better, the 16ohms or 150ohms version?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/diy...ohms-32ohms-150ohms-TPE-wire/32801646835.html


----------



## chaiyuta

Marcos Fontana said:


> Do you have the URL for it?


Bell-Ti Taobao page If you use Chrome Browser on PC, You might use Google translate the page and read customer feedback on second tab.


----------



## rahmish

Marcos Fontana said:


> Hello folks,
> 
> Since I'm watching this thread I made a small list of good earbuds:
> 
> ...


Willsound?


----------



## Marcos Fontana

rahmish said:


> Willsound?


You are correct. Willsound have really impressive reviews. Added to my list


----------



## fairx

Marcos Fontana said:


> Final list with a small, but really small review:
> 
> TY HI-z 150ohms/650ohms (Arrived) irreplaceble, my best now! only some headphones can beat
> 
> ...



Which ty 150 you bought?

 My 320 been acting wierd after some recable. Already on my 3rd recable. And the tuning foam are a mess now. While I still have a backup driver from penon I think I might rest my 320 for a while. Don't want mishap to happen again.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

fairx said:


> Which ty 150 you bought?
> 
> My 320 been acting wierd after some recable. Already on my 3rd recable. And the tuning foam are a mess now. While I still have a backup driver from penon I think I might rest my 320 for a while. Don't want mishap to happen again.


I bought this one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TY-Hi-Z-HP-150s-150ohm-HiFi-Earbuds-Earphone/32819126358.html

The MKII.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Updated list:

Snow lotus 1.0/2.0
RY4S UE - amazing price/audio quality ratio! need a good gift? this is the best!
EMX500S - amazing price/audio quality ratio! need a good gift? you can't go wrong with!
VE ZOE - super neutral, pocket HD600?
VE Zen LL - amazing, a lot of fun. I like it more than the ZOE
TY HI-z 150ohms/650ohms irreplaceble, must have
Toneking TO400s good but, restricted to some genres, shy bass
NiceHCK EBX good but, restricted to some genres, shy bass
YINCROW RW-9
Svara L 32ohms
Qian39/69
Vido
SR2 150ohms tpe
Ourart Ti7/ACG
SWD2+
Shozy BK
HE 150 Pro
E1008
Yinman 600
Black Ling
Blox +++(Yin)+++/TM9 +++Golov+++
Super Kryptonite better than SWD2+
Bell Ti 120ohms
Willsound MK2
Rose Mojito - amazing for classical music
Rose Masya

Bell Ti -> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...-vgj5lj4iQO0NAOQQK8wYlta3EHDMlQQzpRKbcNDLSek\

Folks, I believe that this list contains the best available earbuds, based on shared opinions and reviews.


----------



## jogawag

Marcos Fontana said:


> I got it. Which one is better, the 16ohms or 150ohms version?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/diy...ohms-32ohms-150ohms-TPE-wire/32801646835.html



I recommend 16ohm of 2nd color. (The seller said that SR2 is 16ohm driver's name, and has most strong bass in the colors.)


----------



## j4100

Marcos Fontana said:


> I bought this one:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TY-Hi-Z-HP-150s-150ohm-HiFi-Earbuds-Earphone/32819126358.html
> 
> The MKII.


 That's the ones I recieved today. Sound really good right out of the box. First time I had instructions telling me to burn them in!


----------



## HungryPanda

Marcos Fontana said:


> Updated list:
> 
> Snow lotus 1.0/2.0
> RY4S UE - amazing price/audio quality ratio! need a good gift? this is the best!
> ...


I'm kind of sad, no K's earbuds mentioned


----------



## Themilkman46290

Yeah I love my ty earbuds but my samsara's are my new favorite buds, for now........


----------



## j4100

HungryPanda said:


> I'm kind of sad, no K's earbuds mentioned



Yeah, K's earbuds need some attention.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

jogawag said:


> I recommend 16ohm of 2nd color. (The seller said that SR2 is 16ohm driver's name, and has most strong bass in the colors.)


The white one?


----------



## Marcos Fontana (Dec 4, 2018)

j4100 said:


> Yeah, K's earbuds need some attention.


Sorry by my fault. You are correct. Updated list:

K's 300 Samsara
VE ZOE
VE Zen LL
TY HI-z 150ohms/650ohms
Svara L 32ohms
SWD2+
Shozy BK
Black Ling
Blox Tm9/+++(Yin)+++ +++Golov+++
Super Kryptonite
Yinman 600
Snow lotus 1.0/2.0
RY4S UE - amazing price/audio quality ratio! need a good gift? this is the best!
EMX500S - amazing price/audio quality ratio! need a good gift? you can't go wrong with!
Toneking TO400s good but, restricted to some genres, shy bass
NiceHCK EBX good but, restricted to some genres, shy bass
YINCROW RW-9
Qian39/69
Vido
SR2 16 ohms black curved plug
Ourart Ti7/ACG
HE 150 Pro
E1008
Bell Ti 120ohms
Willsound MK2

Bell Ti -> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...-vgj5lj4iQO0NAOQQK8wYlta3EHDMlQQzpRKbcNDLSek\


----------



## jogawag

Marcos Fontana said:


> The white one?



That is not.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801646835.html
2nd selection of "Color:", where pop up "curve plug 16ohms".


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Folks,

The idea of the list is to be shared and all contributions are really welcome.

Updated:

K's 300 Samsara
VE ZOE
VE Zen LL
TY HI-z 150ohms/650ohms
Svara L 32ohms
SWD2+
Shozy BK
Black Ling
Blox Tm9/+++(Yin)+++ +++Golov+++
Super Kryptonite
Yinman 600
Snow lotus 1.0/2.0
RY4S UE - amazing price/audio quality ratio! need a good gift? this is the best!
EMX500S - amazing price/audio quality ratio! need a good gift? you can't go wrong with!
Toneking TO400s good but, restricted to some genres, shy bass
NiceHCK EBX good but, restricted to some genres, shy bass
YINCROW RW-9
Qian39/69
Vido
SR2 16 ohms black curved plug
Ourart Ti7/ACG
HE 150 Pro
E1008
Bell Ti 120ohms
Willsound MK2

Bell Ti -> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...-vgj5lj4iQO0NAOQQK8wYlta3EHDMlQQzpRKbcNDLSek\

Cheers


----------



## iron2k

What about Penon BS1 ???


----------



## Marcos Fontana

iron2k said:


> What about Penon BS1 ???


Sure, really good reviews of Penon BS1 too.

Updated:

Penon BS1
K's 300 Samsara
VE ZOE
VE Zen LL
TY HI-z 150ohms/650ohms
Svara L 32ohms
SWD2+
Shozy BK
Black Ling
Blox Tm9/+++(Yin)+++ +++Golov+++
Super Kryptonite
Yinman 600
Snow lotus 1.0/2.0
RY4S UE - amazing price/audio quality ratio! need a good gift? this is the best!
EMX500S - amazing price/audio quality ratio! need a good gift? you can't go wrong with!
Toneking TO400s good but, restricted to some genres, shy bass
NiceHCK EBX good but, restricted to some genres, shy bass
YINCROW RW-9
Qian39/69
Vido
SR2 16 ohms SR2 black curved plug
Ourart Ti7/ACG
HE 150 Pro
E1008
Bell Ti 120ohms
Willsound MK2


----------



## rahmish

Marcos Fontana said:


> Folks,
> 
> The idea of the list is to be shared and all contributions are really welcome.
> 
> ...


Willsound Mk1 still is my favorite, BGVP DX3s is good as well, but a bit hard fit...


----------



## Marcos Fontana (Dec 4, 2018)

Updated:

Liebesleid
Cypherus
Penon BS1
Willsound MK1/MK2
BGVP DX3s - fit issue, but good
K's 300 Samsara
VE ZOE
VE Zen LL
TY HI-z 150ohms/650ohms
Svara L 32ohms
SWD2+
Blox Tm9/+++(Yin)+++ +++Golov+++
Super Kryptonite
Yinman 600
Snow lotus 1.0/2.0
RY4S UE - amazing price/audio quality ratio! need a good gift? this is the best!
EMX500S - amazing price/audio quality ratio! need a good gift? you can't go wrong with!
Toneking TO400s good but, restricted to some genres, shy bass
NiceHCK EBX good but, restricted to some genres, shy bass
YINCROW RW-9
Qian39/69
Vido
SR2 16 ohms SR2 black curved plug
Ourart Ti7/ACG
HE 150 Pro
E1008
Bell Ti 120ohms

Bell Ti -> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...-vgj5lj4iQO0NAOQQK8wYlta3EHDMlQQzpRKbcNDLSek\

Guys, maybe I'm doing a kind of flood in this thread. If yes, tell me and I will stop.

Maybe the owner of this thread could put this list on the first page? Maybe not, but I think that this can be really useful for people that is starting with earbuds.


----------



## silverfishla

Marcos Fontana said:


> Updated:
> 
> Penon BS1
> Willsound MK1/MK2
> ...


Please stop.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

silverfishla said:


> Please stop.


Sure, sorry for the incovenience.


----------



## waynes world

Marcos Fontana said:


> Guys, maybe I'm doing a kind of flood in this thread. If yes, tell me and I will stop.
> 
> Maybe the owner of this thread could put this list on the first page? Maybe not, but I think that this can be really useful for people that is starting with earbuds.



One option would be assign one of your posts for updating, and then to edit that post. You could then link to it within subsequent posts. Just a thought.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

waynes world said:


> One option would be assign one of your posts for updating, and then to edit that post. You could then link to it within subsequent posts. Just a thought.


Thank you, I will keep updating the list in the last post. This list is only a reference, a point of start for newcomers.

Thank you that helped and is always updating this thread. You are awesome people!


----------



## snip3r77

Marcos Fontana said:


> Thank you, I will keep updating the list in the last post. This list is only a reference, a point of start for newcomers.
> 
> Thank you that helped and is always updating this thread. You are awesome people!


I have the ry4s UE, is there a reason to get the emxs500? Pls advise the difference . Thanks


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm listening to the EMX500s at the moment and I prefer it over the EMX500. Such amazing sub bass with clearer treble


----------



## snip3r77

HungryPanda said:


> I'm listening to the EMX500s at the moment and I prefer it over the EMX500


What about vs ry4S UE?


----------



## HungryPanda

I do not have those I chose the RY GM500 300 ohm over them


----------



## Marcos Fontana (Dec 4, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> I have the ry4s UE, is there a reason to get the emxs500? Pls advise the difference . Thanks


In my opinion, no. My wife "stole" it and I had to buy it again for my collection (I bought 5, 4 gifts and one for me)  RY4S is the best for the price that I have. I believe that EMX500S is around 85% of RY4S.

I have to say that EMX500S is amazing too, better than many others that are 4~10 times expensive but not at the same level of RY4S.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 4, 2018)

Marcos Fontana said:


> *small list*


If you say so buddy...

Mojito is not genre specific it's just incredibly bright at around 4khz and a little brighter than ideal around 8-10khz. The 4khz peak is intolerable unless you have iron ears though, other than that the mojito is pretty amazing all rounder with one caveat: Recessed vocal range from 500-2000khz. Everything else is excellent though. If one was to remove the 4khz peak it would be good for many genres, with the peak there I can see why this bud is relegated to instrumental and orchastral music. But I will never use this bud without EQ the timbre is just so much better with a few tweaks. The double driver brings out some powerful dynamics which is the speciality of the Mojito I would say. Along with prestine detail, even after the peak is dropped detail actually improves as it becomes more neutral.

IMO, I advise you to skip K's Black Ling and just buy the Bell-TI if you are going to buy it anyway. May aswell go for the revised version (bell ti is the flagship successor to the Black Ling).

I also think shozy BK is outclassed by other PK buds. SWD2+ is said to be one of the best and I would choose TO400 as a similar but better sound than shozy BK, maybe toneking TO600 can surpass them both at a cheaper price than bk... Just trying to save your wallet 



HungryPanda said:


> I'm kind of sad, no K's earbuds mentioned



I thought you were a K's fan? How did you not notice he already had two K's buds on his list


----------



## HungryPanda

not when I first looked


----------



## Marcos Fontana

seanc6441 said:


> If you say so buddy...
> 
> Mojito is not genre specific it's just incredibly bright at around 4khz and a little brighter than ideal around 8-10khz. The 4khz peak is intolerable unless you have iron ears though, other than that the mojito is pretty amazing all rounder with one caveat: Recessed vocal range from 500-2000khz. Everything else is excellent though.
> 
> ...


Omg, you helped very much! Updating the list here. I already have the TO400, so I will remove the Shozy BK and replace Black Ling with the Bell Ti.

Thank you!!!!!


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> not when I first looked


Ah I see, yes there was an incredible amount of posts and edits to keep an eye on by him to be fair


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 4, 2018)

Marcos Fontana said:


> Omg, you helped very much! Updating the list here. I already have the TO400, so I will remove the Shozy BK and replace Black Ling with the Bell Ti.
> 
> Thank you!!!!!


Well just to my ears. To400 is a more refined bk, not as much congested staging or bloated low mids but same tonality. Win win. But to600 is the one that intrigues me, 600 ohm and newer than 400, might be a winner?

Bell-ti is hella pricy, it is using the same design as black ling shell but open vented, titanium instead of brass and new driver. Thus you can consider it a revolution to the Ling/Bell line up and a high end TOTL earbud 

Are all these earbuds just for personal use? Are you buying them all or just listing your options? That's an insane amount of earbuds to buy at once haha


----------



## chinmie

Marcos Fontana said:


> Updated:
> 
> Penon BS1
> Willsound MK1/MK2
> ...



what?? no Liebesleid??


----------



## redkingjoe

So black ling is here for just a year!

And probably Ling ti is just for another years!


----------



## mochill

subwoof3r said:


> So, first impressions about your YIN, guys?


I have the tm9 not the yin


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> what?? no Liebesleid??


No cypherus buds either! More buds more buds more buds! Lol


----------



## chinmie

mochill said:


> I have the tm9 not the yin



you should have both


----------



## mochill

Maybe for my birthday


----------



## Marcos Fontana

seanc6441 said:


> No cypherus buds either! More buds more buds more buds! Lol


Yes, you are right, Liebesleid and cypherus included in the list.

I will need to get a loan (kidding)  Omg, it's a lot of money.


----------



## chaiyuta

HungryPanda said:


> I'm kind of sad, no K's earbuds mentioned


Bell-Ti is one of K's products.


----------



## Qualcheduno

So, here are my impressions of the Svara-L after a week of use and break-in: with the stock thin foams, they are mildly V-shaped, with the mids a bit recessed but never being overshadowed. I feel that this is the most balanced configuration, but one can always move to full foams for more bass rumble or remove them for enhanced sparkle. My only gripe with them is the cable: it's not bad, but it's a little underwhelming given the price (I'm only talking about aesthetics, not SQ).
Overall I'm very happy with them and I recommend them to everyone looking for a V-shaped but still balanced pair of buds.


----------



## BrunoC

I believe these two deserve to be on that list:

- EMX500                 <- This is considered the budget king (I bet it's the same driver of the RY4S - similar clarity and dynamics. EMX500 has a bit more bass)
- Toneking TP16       <- Very good for 13€. Good extension on both ends with somewhat a balanced coherent sound. It was more expensive one year ago.


----------



## golov17

Happy Day )))


----------



## Marcos Fontana

BrunoC said:


> I believe these two deserve to be on that list:
> 
> - EMX500                 <- This is considered the budget king (I bet it's the same driver of the RY4S - similar clarity and dynamics. EMX500 has a bit more bass)
> - Toneking TP16       <- Very good for 13€. Good extension on both ends with somewhat a balanced coherent sound. It was more expensive one year ago.


List updated. I'm sorting it based on price. Soon I will update a new version of the list in a right place.

Ty all for the contribution!


----------



## chaiyuta

@golov17 : what is inside VE box? Is it a new released model?


----------



## darmanastartes

Marcos Fontana said:


> Sure, sorry for the incovenience.


You could link to the post you keep the list updated on in your signature.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

darmanastartes said:


> You could link to the post you keep the list updated on in your signature.


Ty you very much. I updated the list with EMX500 and Toneking TP16. I also added the post to my signature. I will sort the list by prices and some other useful information. I will put the reviews URL and the store URL to help everyone. All contributions are really welcome!


----------



## golov17

chaiyuta said:


> @golov17 : what is inside VE box? Is it a new released model?


Old stock first Zen ))


----------



## j4100

golov17 said:


> Old stock first Zen ))



Oh! Nice! Lucky you.


----------



## snip3r77

Marcos Fontana said:


> Ty you very much. I updated the list with EMX500 and Toneking TP16. I also added the post to my signature. I will sort the list by prices and some other useful information. I will put the reviews URL and the store URL to help everyone. All contributions are really welcome!



Vidos are good as gift too 
EDM lovers would be amazed at the sub bass


----------



## waynes world

Qualcheduno said:


> So, here are my impressions of the Svara-L after a week of use and break-in: with the stock thin foams, they are mildly V-shaped, with the mids a bit recessed but never being overshadowed. I feel that this is the most balanced configuration, but one can always move to full foams for more bass rumble or remove them for enhanced sparkle. My only gripe with them is the cable: it's not bad, but it's a little underwhelming given the price (I'm only talking about aesthetics, not SQ).
> Overall I'm very happy with them and I recommend them to everyone looking for a V-shaped but still balanced pair of buds.



Happy you're enjoying them! I actually like the cable - just the right thickness for me. But I also like the fact that they are removable. Sometimes I like to wear them "down", in which case I put on them on the **** PT15 cable.



golov17 said:


> Old stock first Zen ))



Yeah baby! It's nice to see you two getting reacquainted


----------



## golov17

By the way.. 
With all my love for Blox, I have to admit that CF2 is even better than Yin, the middle is more detailed and a little more mid bass, which makes their sound more fun and interesting.. 
 IMHO.


----------



## chinmie

golov17 said:


> By the way..
> With all my love for Blox, I have to admit that CF2 is even better than Yin, the middle is more detailed and a little more mid bass, which makes their sound more fun and interesting..
> IMHO.



i like the B200 better than the TM9. even if it's more raw sounding and seems less polished compared to the TM9, but the energy and the kick is unmatched. only the Willsound MK2 best it with similar sound and approach


----------



## golov17

chinmie said:


> i like the B200 better than the TM9. even if it's more raw sounding and seems less polished compared to the TM9, but the energy and the kick is unmatched. only the Willsound MK2 best it with similar sound and approach


Of course, I recently connected Blox be7mk1 to Hifiman HM-801, and I must say that this is a match created in heaven. For all this is about synergy ..


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

soooo, any fellow Canadians notice the change in Ali shipping recently?  Doesn't seem to be any more free shipping to Canada.  Not only that, but ordering quantities above 1 brings an exorbitant increase in shipping fees...like it goes from $2.60 up to $77!  Yeesh...I wish I'd ordered a dozen RY4S sets a month back when shipping was free to Canada!


----------



## cocopro

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> soooo, any fellow Canadians notice the change in Ali shipping recently?  Doesn't seem to be any more free shipping to Canada.  Not only that, but ordering quantities above 1 brings an exorbitant increase in shipping fees...like it goes from $2.60 up to $77!  Yeesh...I wish I'd ordered a dozen RY4S sets a month back when shipping was free to Canada!


Canada Post strike probably raised too many "where's my crap?" complain.


----------



## toear

cocopro said:


> Canada Post strike probably raised too many "where's my crap?" complain.



Now that it is finishing I think things will return back to normal soon. I just checked my calendar and it looks like some stores are returning back to free shipping...


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

yeah I thought about the strike being the cause.  Hope that's the case...


----------



## ShabtabQ

Received my RY4S UE today, initial impression : lows have a good impact, imaging is impressing with decent soundstage, I will compare it with **** PT15 and NiceHCK EB2.


----------



## theresanarc

Finally got my Edifier H180s that I ordered 2+ months ago, not sure what to make of them though. I originally bought them because I thought it was the same shell as the Qian39 and while it's similar, it's also bigger which makes it a bit pointless for me as I wanted smaller.

The sound is V-shaped I suppose, both bright but with bass. I do prefer the sound of the Qian39's as well not just their size but these are a nice change in sound as well. I also ended up ordering the SHE3800s while waiting for these but they'll have the same shell.

Also, bit pathetic that this is from the official Edifier store on AE yet it only comes with one pair of foam covers and they don't even fit properly, I ended up using a past one that came with a Monk+.


----------



## artpiggo

New TOTL earbud from Korea. $400 detachable mmcx.

https://www.ucotech.co.kr/esp1


----------



## Danneq

Marcos Fontana said:


> Yes, you are right, Liebesleid and cypherus included in the list.
> 
> I will need to get a loan (kidding)  Omg, it's a lot of money.



As for Cypherus, the 2 regular earbuds sold right now are CampFred 2 (I think it's $199) and ZoomFred (if I remember correctly it's $249).


----------



## cocolinho

Danneq said:


> As for Cypherus, the 2 regular earbuds sold right now are CampFred 2 (I think it's $199) and ZoomFred (if I remember correctly it's $249).


yes that's correct I was debating if I should move to the ZF but I'll stay with my currrent set up being WS MK1 SE + MK2


----------



## golov17

Love this cable from VE )))


----------



## redkingjoe

So happy with new toy! 

 Great sound, good style and well built.


----------



## LazerBear

Hello guys, I received my NiceHCK EB2 last week and I find it very nice. My only issue is that it seems there is a dip somewhere in the mids that leads to vocals in particularly congested genres (such as metal and stoner rock) to be very recessed, to the point where I can't really listen without raising the volume to a point where drums and guitars are too loud to be a comfortable listening experience. Would you say that the EBX has the same issue? I could be tempted to give it a try, given the fact that everything else about the EB2 has been very positive for me, from build quality, to the cable, to the performance in other genres.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Marcos Fontana said:


> Hello folks,
> 
> Since I'm watching this thread I made a small list of good earbuds:
> 
> ...


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Danneq said:


> As for Cypherus, the 2 regular earbuds sold right now are CampFred 2 (I think it's $199) and ZoomFred (if I remember correctly it's $249).


List updated.


----------



## subwoof3r

golov17 said:


> Love this cable from VE )))


Very nice cable
Is it as soft as TM9/YIN cable ?


----------



## golov17

subwoof3r said:


> Very nice cable
> Is it as soft as TM9/YIN cable ?


https://drive.google.com/file/d/13NLMPzZRJkIylUQDU7Nmn0g9Ig_JJBoy/view?usp=drivesdk


----------



## iron2k

subwoof3r said:


> Very nice cable
> Is it as soft as TM9/YIN cable ?


I have the same blue cable and it's very soft and light


----------



## rkw

Marcos Fontana said:


> Updating the list here. I already have the TO400, so I will remove the Shozy BK and replace Black Ling with the Bell Ti.


Confused about what the list is supposed to be, "good" or the "best" in their price class? Shozy BK and Black Ling were well regarded, but not good enough any more? And TO400 had very mixed reaction in this thread.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

rkw said:


> Confused about what the list is supposed to be, "good" or the "best" in their price class? Shozy BK and Black Ling were well regarded, but not good enough any more? And TO400 had very mixed reaction in this thread.


List updated. Everybody is helping to build it. It's only a reference to help the newcomers. The objective is to list the good earbuds, not only the best.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 6, 2018)

rkw said:


> Confused about what the list is supposed to be, "good" or the "best" in their price class? Shozy BK and Black Ling were well regarded, but not good enough any more? And TO400 had very mixed reaction in this thread.


I thought it was a list of earbuds he wanted to buy. That's why I was curious as he was listing so many earbuds... And so I said maybe buying both the Black Ling and Bell-ti would be overkill... Lol

As also i said to400 over bk because it has a very similar timbre in the mids but sounds cleaner. Thinking he may save himself a lot of money by trying out the to400s first...

Now seeing as its a recommendation list I wouldn't be removing options just because it's similar!


----------



## golov17

iron2k said:


> I have the same blue cable and it's very soft and light


btw CampFred2 have good cable too...
and great sound )))


----------



## cocolinho

USD120 for the blue VE cable on their website and we know nothing about the specs. 0 info. that's crazy


----------



## euge

golov17 said:


> btw CampFred2 have good cable too...
> and great sound )))



How's the sound-stage compared to yin or tm9?


----------



## subwoof3r

cocolinho said:


> USD120 for the blue VE cable on their website and we know nothing about the specs. 0 info. that's crazy


I remarked the exact same, I really hope at this price it is at least full silver (and not plated).
Also, nowadays it is very difficult to find a very soft cable on the market (especially aliexpress) which looks premium like this, so I guess VE did that in this mind?


----------



## wskl

cocolinho said:


> USD120 for the blue VE cable on their website and we know nothing about the specs. 0 info. that's crazy





subwoof3r said:


> I remarked the exact same, I really hope at this price it is at least full silver (and not plated).
> Also, nowadays it is very difficult to find a very soft cable on the market (especially aliexpress) which looks premium like this, so I guess VE did that in this mind?



On VE's Facebook, they said it is pure silver cable.  Also for ZOE owners, you can get it for half price.


----------



## exavolt

LazerBear said:


> Hello guys, I received my NiceHCK EB2 last week and I find it very nice. My only issue is that it seems there is a dip somewhere in the mids that leads to vocals in particularly congested genres (such as metal and stoner rock) to be very recessed, to the point where I can't really listen without raising the volume to a point where drums and guitars are too loud to be a comfortable listening experience. Would you say that the EBX has the same issue? I could be tempted to give it a try, given the fact that everything else about the EB2 has been very positive for me, from build quality, to the cable, to the performance in other genres.


Nope. EBX doesn't have the same issue. I was A/B-ing EB2-EBX last night and noticed dip in the mids for EB2 too, which probably one of the reasons I don't enjoy the EB2. EBX is pretty flat with minimum dip or peaks.

I was skeptic about improvement I will get from the EBX from the EB2 before ordering it, as some reviews are saying that EB2 is 85-95% of EBX. But I am glad I decided to purchase them while there was 11.11 sale. The price difference is justifiable and I would pay it at its full price ($119).


----------



## cocolinho

wskl said:


> On VE's Facebook, they said it is pure silver cable.  Also for ZOE owners, you can get it for half price.


Ok but nothing on their website which should be I guess their main showcase for products


----------



## golov17

euge said:


> How's the sound-stage compared to yin or tm9?


Jump


----------



## Marcos Fontana

seanc6441 said:


> I thought it was a list of earbuds he wanted to buy. That's why I was curious as he was listing so many earbuds... And so I said maybe buying both the Black Ling and Bell-ti would be overkill... Lol
> 
> As also i said to400 over bk because it has a very similar timbre in the mids but sounds cleaner. Thinking he may save himself a lot of money by trying out the to400s first...
> 
> Now seeing as its a recommendation list I wouldn't be removing options just because it's similar!


Yes, the initial idea was that. I will use this as a references list to buy my collection. I will not buy everything. But I will keep this list updated because it can be useful for other newcomers. I will try to put a small text with important information, like that about the shozy bk and to400. The list is being updated all the time. I will update the initial message of the the list to avoid misunderstanding. This is not a list to say that anything is inferior or bad, is a reference list to newcomers, like me. The reason that I put everything there is that I want to avoid any injury to any manufacturer.


----------



## Danneq

euge said:


> How's the sound-stage compared to yin or tm9?



I haven't heard Yin but the soundstage on TM9 is bigger than on CampFred 2 (and also than on ZoomFred, which in turn has got a bigger soundstage than CF2). But overall I agree with golov17 on his views on CF2 vs TM9. (For me it works great to not use foams on TM9, but instead use silicone rings with fins from the VE EX pack where I have cut off the fins).

I probably pick both CF2 and ZF over TM9, but the soundstage on TM9 is quite special.


----------



## Zerohour88

exavolt said:


> Nope. EBX doesn't have the same issue. I was A/B-ing EB2-EBX last night and noticed dip in the mids for EB2 too, which probably one of the reasons I don't enjoy the EB2. EBX is pretty flat with minimum dip or peaks.
> 
> I was skeptic about improvement I will get from the EBX from the EB2 before ordering it, as some reviews are saying that EB2 is 85-95% of EBX. But I am glad I decided to purchase them while there was 11.11 sale. The price difference is justifiable and I would pay it at its full price ($119).



second this, definitely no regrets in getting the EBX over the EB2. Sure, if you want value, you might go for the cheaper option, but I wanted a definite upgrade and a taste of that "TOTL" sound.

I'll probably be using the EBX far longer than any of my buds, since it seems the jump/upgrade to $200+ range isn't as well-defined as I'd like.


----------



## golov17

https://ucotech1.wixsite.com/mysite..._w5pr-vMRlBKylUlyxCUF2rk5AWXmHTpOzKeGSBLmd6Bo


----------



## golov17

Danneq said:


> I haven't heard Yin but the soundstage on TM9 is bigger than on CampFred 2 (and also than on ZoomFred, which in turn has got a bigger soundstage than CF2). But overall I agree with golov17 on his views on CF2 vs TM9. (For me it works great to not use foams on TM9, but instead use silicone rings with fins from the VE EX pack where I have cut off the fins).
> 
> I probably pick both CF2 and ZF over TM9, but the soundstage on TM9 is quite special.


Ordered ZF Pro bro )))


----------



## Danneq

golov17 said:


> Ordered ZF Pro bro )))



Wow!
It was released after I bought my pair of ZF. There might be a small difference but I think ZF is good enough. Hope you like ZF too (even if the cable is a bit stiff).


----------



## golov17

Danneq said:


> Wow!
> It was released after I bought my pair of ZF. There might be a small difference but I think ZF is good enough. Hope you like ZF too (even if the cable is a bit stiff).


 cable norm )))


----------



## exavolt

Anyone ordered that new Y****o new model?


----------



## LazerBear

exavolt said:


> Nope. EBX doesn't have the same issue. I was A/B-ing EB2-EBX last night and noticed dip in the mids for EB2 too, which probably one of the reasons I don't enjoy the EB2. EBX is pretty flat with minimum dip or peaks.
> 
> I was skeptic about improvement I will get from the EBX from the EB2 before ordering it, as some reviews are saying that EB2 is 85-95% of EBX. But I am glad I decided to purchase them while there was 11.11 sale. The price difference is justifiable and I would pay it at its full price ($119).





Zerohour88 said:


> second this, definitely no regrets in getting the EBX over the EB2. Sure, if you want value, you might go for the cheaper option, but I wanted a definite upgrade and a taste of that "TOTL" sound.
> 
> I'll probably be using the EBX far longer than any of my buds, since it seems the jump/upgrade to $200+ range isn't as well-defined as I'd like.



Hmm.. I'm biting haha, I'm trying to return the EB2. Out of curiosity, do you think that the EBX is superior to the Shozy Cygnus? They're listed for a very similar price..


----------



## ClieOS

Mod'ed a FiiO short mmcx cable with the smallest 2.5mm balanced plug I have so I can listen to Masya 2 with EarStudio ES100's balanced output.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 7, 2018)

Danneq said:


> I haven't heard Yin but the soundstage on TM9 is bigger than on CampFred 2 (and also than on ZoomFred, which in turn has got a bigger soundstage than CF2). But overall I agree with golov17 on his views on CF2 vs TM9. (For me it works great to not use foams on TM9, but instead use silicone rings with fins from the VE EX pack where I have cut off the fins).
> 
> I probably pick both CF2 and ZF over TM9, but the soundstage on TM9 is quite special.


Big soundstage is not always best in my opinion. I find good placement of imaging, separation and air to be the important factors. The tm9 has a big soundstage because the low mids have a big dip. You do that with any earbud via EQ and you get a similar effect.

To me gaining soundstage is not worth recessed low mids, better to make small adjuatments and gain soundstage via refined frequency response and good separation rather than disrupting the balance.

Not that people will not love the tm9's large soundstage, it's just to my ears i prefer good placement and nothing to sound too distant or too close. Music sounds more alive when the soundstageing lets the music present naturally.

It was the same for me with Mojito, with dipped mids the SS was huge and like a big arc in the mids. Fun for awhile but it felt empty at times...But once you neutralised the dips it became much more natural, a bit more forward but with excellent separation and refinement which made it still sound full, big and open but much more alive than before.


----------



## j4100

That's a serious cable on the Monk plus late fall edition. I thought I was finished buying stuff, but I'm going to order one of those on the 12th. See the VE FB page for details.


----------



## waynes world

ClieOS said:


> Mod'ed a FiiO short mmcx cable with the smallest 2.5mm balanced plug I have so I can listen to Masya 2 with EarStudio ES100's balanced output.



I'm jealous - I want a shorter balanced cable like that for my Svara L's and ES100. I'm guessing that Fiio doesn't provide that cable with a balanced plug themselves (I'll look).

How does the Masya 2 + ES100 combo work for you?


----------



## ClieOS (Dec 7, 2018)

waynes world said:


> I'm jealous - I want a shorter balanced cable like that for my Svara L's and ES100. I'm guessing that Fiio doesn't provide that cable with a balanced plug themselves (I'll look).
> 
> How does the Masya 2 + ES100 combo work for you?



As far as I know, FiiO's short cable are all 3.5mm single-ended. But they can be converted to balanced by a plug mod.

So far Masya 2 is playing fine with ES100. I am still trying to find the right foam pad combination to get the best out of it. Right now I am on double foam - a full foam over a donut.


----------



## Danneq

seanc6441 said:


> Big soundstage is not always best in my opinion. I find good placement of imaging, separation and air to be the important factors. The tm9 has a big soundstage because the low mids have a big dip. You do that with any earbud via EQ and you get a similar effect.
> 
> To me gaining soundstage is not worth recessed low mids, better to make small adjuatments and gain soundstage via refined frequency response and good separation rather than disrupting the balance.
> 
> ...



I still think that imaging and separation on TM9 is on a TOTL level. However they are a bit distant sounding and lack a bit of punch. I find them to work well with rock, jazz, acoustic. Perhaps lacking a bit of bite with metal. In that case a Cypherus earbud or something like SWD2+ works better (or the Tomahawk which I keep because they sound so sweet with metal).


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 7, 2018)

Danneq said:


> I still think that imaging and separation on TM9 is on a TOTL level. However they are a bit distant sounding and lack a bit of punch. I find them to work well with rock, jazz, acoustic. Perhaps lacking a bit of bite with metal. In that case a Cypherus earbud or something like SWD2+ works better (or the Tomahawk which I keep because they sound so sweet with metal).


Imaging is good actually I won't dispute that but deeper string instrument and the vocal body is not quite there with the tm9, which may have been resolved with the Yin.

TM9 should have been the prototype and the Yin should have been the release to the public. It has too much flaws for a $289 earbud. Honestly the $8 RY4S had less 'issues' overall which is worrying. The emx500 which has a similar mid dip though had a better treble quality and presence was more impressive to me. I'd wager opening the second bass port on an emx500 would give it the same sub bass extension too at which point I'd gladly put down the tm9 for the emx500...

For a company who had not released an earbud in a long time and the hype that surrounded the TM9 I think it was disappointing. Which is telling by how quickly the Yin was released after it. I know we all have different tastes but the tm9 had too many quirks IMO, to much deviation from neutral that made it abit disjointed and unsuitable to some genres or tracks.


----------



## DBaldock9

ClieOS said:


> Mod'ed a FiiO short mmcx cable with the smallest 2.5mm balanced plug I have so I can listen to Masya 2 with EarStudio ES100's balanced output.



The smallest 2.5mm TRRS plug I've seen, is the one that VE uses on their Espresso cable. I haven't seen a plug that size for sale at any online shops, though.


----------



## golov17

ZOE with F.Audio FA-1 sounds great


----------



## ClieOS

DBaldock9 said:


> The smallest 2.5mm TRRS plug I've seen, is the one that VE uses on their Espresso cable. I haven't seen a plug that size for sale at any online shops, though.



Very likely it is injection molded and not something that can be done by DIY.


----------



## DBaldock9

ClieOS said:


> Very likely it is injection molded and not something that can be done by DIY.



It's knurled metal - and slightly smaller than the smallest of the Eidolic 2.5mm TRRS plugs (which is on my Impact Audio Cable).
.


----------



## ClieOS

DBaldock9 said:


> It's knurled metal - and slightly smaller than the smallest of the Eidolic 2.5mm TRRS plugs (which is on my Impact Audio Cable).
> .



It can still be injection molded inside, then put on an outer metal sleeve. It is how small plug are generally made in mass production as tight space doesn't provide good enough (if any) strain relief and injection molding solves that problem.


----------



## seanc6441

DBaldock9 said:


> It's knurled metal - and slightly smaller than the smallest of the Eidolic 2.5mm TRRS plugs (which is on my Impact Audio Cable).
> .


Right cable is sexy af lol


----------



## HungryPanda

seanc6441 said:


> Right cable is sexy af lol


A sentence only a Head-Fier could utter


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> A sentence only a Head-Fier could utter



Lol!


----------



## DBaldock9 (Dec 7, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Right cable is sexy af lol



Unfortunately, Lindsay at Impact Audio Cables hasn't been taking any new cable orders, since March or April of this year.

Edit:  The three Eidolic connectors (2.5mm TRRS Plug, 2x MMCX), which are used on the Impact Audio Cable that I bought, cost at least $10 each.


----------



## ClieOS (Dec 8, 2018)

Simphonio *D3* has just been officially announced: new 15.8mm 4-layers composited diaphragm, all new voice coil, 150 ohm impedance, 118dB sensitivity with Furukawa Japan's 8 conductors 640 strands single crystal copper wires. MSRP (in China) is around US$480. ETA is early January.


----------



## doggiemom

ClieOS said:


> Simphonio *D3* has just been officially announced: new 15.8mm 4-layers composited diaphragm, all new voice coil, 150 ohm impedance, 118dB sensitivity with Furukawa Japan's 8 conductors 640 strands single crystal copper wires. MSRP (in China) is around US$480. ETA is early January.


Interesting.  Curious to see where the earbud price point will max out (meaning what people are willing to pay).


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Dec 9, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> Interesting.  Curious to see where the earbud price point will max out (meaning what people are willing to pay).


I have been thinking on this as well and as long as if new technology and materials come into play along with some neat micro-engineering (as we have seen in IEMs/CIEMs) the price may in fact go higher and justly so. I am waiting for more lighter shell materials to come into play... completely replacing the basic plastic we currently know. Another big event for earbuds will be the next step in bluetooth miniaturization & power which would spill over into ear buds well.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Marcos Fontana said:


> List updated.


Get this man some Blurs! They'll land on your list for sure.


----------



## euge

Are the **** BK2 on ae new?


----------



## snip3r77

to test sub bass
do check out Avril Lavigne's Skater boy..
certain portions the sub bass is a killer. I listened it to with my QT2 it's crazy.


----------



## exavolt (Dec 9, 2018)

euge said:


> Are the [banned stuff] on ae new?


I believe so. Looking at its history through AliPrice, it seems that it was added at 23 Nov. I am thinking of getting one to feed my curiousity.

Also, that brand and  banned in this forum: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1978#post-14135342

Edit: it was sold as lucky bag.


----------



## exavolt

snip3r77 said:


> to test sub bass
> do check out Avril Lavigne's Skater boy..
> certain portions the sub bass is a killer. I listened it to with my QT2 it's crazy.


Same here. I use that track to test sub bass. I noticed that it has sub-bass only after I got some decent headphones.


----------



## euge

exavolt said:


> I believe so. Looking at its history through AliPrice, it seems that it was added at 23 Nov. I am thinking of getting one to feed my curiousity.
> 
> Also, that brand and  banned in this forum: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1978#post-14135342
> 
> Edit: it was sold as lucky bag.



Ah right, sorry thought it was just the store that's banned.


----------



## FastAndClean




----------



## Marcos Fontana

Folks,

Do you have a list with Blur earbuds? If you have prices, it will help a lot. I need to update my list with them. It's not fair to keep it out of the list.


----------



## seanc6441

doggiemom said:


> Interesting.  Curious to see where the earbud price point will max out (meaning what people are willing to pay).


Is there even a resonable limit? People are willing to pay 1-3k for high end IEMs and CIEMs. Audiophiles are a mad bunch lol


----------



## mbwilson111

Marcos Fontana said:


> Folks,
> 
> Do you have a list with Blur earbuds? If you have prices, it will help a lot. I need to update my list with them. It's not fair to keep it out of the list.



Can't do that with Blur buds.  Often he just makes a few of each model.  Sales are made by messaging him on Facebook.  This is one guy hand making them... so no useful list of models and prices.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

or via his Instagram ( https://www.instagram.com/hennagaijin_boleh7/?hl=en )


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Is there even a resonable limit? People are willing to pay 1-3k for high end IEMs and CIEMs. Audiophiles are a mad bunch lol



unless they evolve beyond only using single dynamic driver, i wouldn't pay more than 400/500 usd


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 10, 2018)

chinmie said:


> unless they evolve beyond only using single dynamic driver, i wouldn't pay more than 400/500 usd


More drivers doesn't necessarily mean better but I get your point, the price to produce single driver earbuds doesn't warrant such a price tag.

Honestly I think $400+ is pushing it with these new releases. It's not like we are getting some crazy planar earbuds or electrostatics.

These are little dynamic drivers with better build quality and tuning than the $10-50 models. Not sure if that warrants $350-390 premium over them.

But it's not really about what they cost to produce or are worth, it's about the limited numbers they will sell which drives the price up.

So the more popular earbuds get the better value for money we should get in theory.


----------



## darmanastartes

My review of the Nicehck EB2 is up.


----------



## silverfishla

exavolt said:


> I believe so. Looking at its history through AliPrice, it seems that it was added at 23 Nov. I am thinking of getting one to feed my curiousity.
> 
> Also, that brand and  banned in this forum: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1978#post-14135342
> 
> Edit: it was sold as lucky bag.


I bought this lucky bag, but have yet to receive it.  Hopefully it will be this earbud, since it now shows up when I hit the link to my purchase.


----------



## FastAndClean (Dec 10, 2018)

ok early impressions for Ourart ACG, polite, mid centric, no sub bass, clean but gentle treble, big soundstage and nice positioning, the mids are very special, they have some sort of sweetness to them and are very effortless, need boost at around 4db from 10 khz and up, not analytical at all, very detailed but not bright


----------



## mbwilson111

FastAndClean said:


> ok early impressions for Ourart ACG, polite, mid centric, no sub bass, clean but gentle treble, big soundstage and nice positioning, the mids are very special, they have some sort of sweetness to them and are very effortless, need boost at around 4db from 10 khz and up, not analytical at all, very detailed but not bright



I have been interested in this but have not seen any sales.  How much did you have to pay?  I only see it for $59.


----------



## FastAndClean

mbwilson111 said:


> I have been interested in this but have not seen any sales.  How much did you have to pay?  I only see it for $59.


i paid 59$


----------



## mbwilson111

FastAndClean said:


> i paid 59$



How is the comfort?  I can't wear anything bigger than a Monk.  My Toneking Ting are too big for me


----------



## FastAndClean

mbwilson111 said:


> I have been interested in this but have not seen any sales.  How much did you have to pay?  I only see it for $59.


i went crazy on small chi fi stuff after i sold my amps


----------



## FastAndClean

mbwilson111 said:


> How is the comfort?  I can't wear anything bigger than a Monk.  My Toneking Ting are too big for me


the comfort is just excellent, they are a little bit smaller than the RY4S


----------



## mbwilson111

FastAndClean said:


> the comfort is just excellent, they are a little bit smaller than the RY4S



Tempted.  Will wait a bit.  A bud ordered on 11:11 should arrive tomorrow.  Plus I have the EMX500 Bro coming.


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> Tempted.  Will wait a bit.  A bud ordered on 11:11 should arrive tomorrow.  Plus I have the EMX500 Bro coming.



I still have one from 11.11 still out there in the ether. Im guessing this one will take a while yet. One I bought two weeks later is already here. Some sellers are better than others when it comes to shipping.


----------



## jogawag

mbwilson111 said:


> How is the comfort?  I can't wear anything bigger than a Monk.  My Toneking Ting are too big for me


I recommend you Moondrop VX Pro which diameter is smallest in my collections, so I am using sennheiser gum ring for it.
The sound has a reputation for being small Mojito, and the price is about $59 in aliexp.


----------



## mbwilson111

jogawag said:


> I recommend you Moondrop VX Pro which diameter is smallest in my collections, so I am using sennheiser gum ring for it
> The sound has a reputation for being small Mojito, and the price is about $59 in aliexp.



Are you recommending that instead of the Ourart ACG or in addition too it?


----------



## chinmie

jogawag said:


> I recommend you Moondrop VX Pro which diameter is smallest in my collections, so I am using sennheiser gum ring for it.
> The sound has a reputation for being small Mojito, and the price is about $59 in aliexp.





mbwilson111 said:


> Are you recommending that instead of the Ourart ACG or in addition too it?



it might just be me, but the VX Pro was one of that earbud that gave me ringing ears every time i used it. it also has a weird EQ peak somewhere around 5K to 9K that might contribute to that fatiguing sound for me. I'd rather have the PT15 than the VX Pro


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> I'd rather have the PT15 than the VX Pro



The PT15 was one of my first buds. I recently put a balanced cable on it...sounds amazing out of the balanced output on my iBasso DX120.   So that and my Zen LL are the only balanced buds that I have.


----------



## jogawag

mbwilson111 said:


> Are you recommending that instead of the Ourart ACG or in addition too it?


The reply was delayed, but it will be like that.


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> The PT15 was one of my first buds. I recently put a balanced cable on it...sounds amazing out of the balanced output on my iBasso DX120.   So that and my Zen LL are the only balanced buds that I have.



yup, the PT15 really does scale well to cable upgrades that makes me really glad it has MMCX connector. great "studio monitor" type of sound that i really like


----------



## HungryPanda

Changed the cable that came with my Toneking TO600 for a copper 6 core balanced 2.5mm jack, earphone has come alive and I am absolutely loving them


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> Changed the cable that came with my Toneking TO600 for a copper 6 core balanced 2.5mm jack, earphone has come alive and I am absolutely loving them


HungryPanda if you wouldn't mind comparing these two since you may be one of the few who owns both!

With the stock cable how is the sound compared to the TO400s? Specifically the sub bass and mid bass.

Is the signature similar to the 400s overall? Is it an improvement?


----------



## exavolt

silverfishla said:


> I bought this lucky bag, but have yet to receive it.  Hopefully it will be this earbud, since it now shows up when I hit the link to my purchase.


Let me hear your quick impression on it after it arrived.


----------



## snip3r77

FastAndClean said:


> the comfort is just excellent, they are a little bit smaller than the RY4S



how does it compare to RY4S?


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> Changed the cable that came with my Toneking TO600 for a copper 6 core balanced 2.5mm jack, earphone has come alive and I am absolutely loving them



Jelly.


----------



## HungryPanda

The TO600 sounds like a fuller more mature earbud than the TO400


----------



## FastAndClean (Dec 10, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> how does it compare to RY4S?


Ourart is more refined, smoother sounding, it has more mids, RY4S has better bass extension and more treble but the treble have some grain in comparison to the Ourart


----------



## HungryPanda

The ourArt and the RY4s are in totally different leagues


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> The TO600 sounds like a fuller more mature earbud than the TO400


And the sub bass quantity? Is it more impactful?


----------



## HungryPanda

Most certainly


----------



## maxxevv

HungryPanda said:


> Changed the cable that came with my Toneking TO600 for a copper 6 core balanced 2.5mm jack, earphone has come alive and I am absolutely loving them



That reminds me !  
I should try swapping out that with the 8-core, 2.5mm balanced I have currently on my T2!


----------



## snip3r77

HungryPanda said:


> The ourArt and the RY4s are in totally different leagues


Haha but there’s no sub bass


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 11, 2018)

These finally showed up from 11.11








Played around with some spare silicone airpod covers I had laying around. Cut the tip off to see if the slight overlap caused any change of sound. It doesn't.


Initial 5 minute impression: clean, balanced/neutral sound and not much bass/sub-bass. It's there if I press them into my ears to seal like an IEM. If I cover the 3 ports on the back of the bud all bass goes away.


----------



## cathee

assassin10000 said:


> These finally showed up from 11.11
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very interesting shape, I assume you got these from Aliexpress?


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 11, 2018)

@cathee Yep. During their 11.11 sale, just took a month to get lol.

They are shaped similar to the apple earpod/airpod, which is why I wanted to try them.


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> The TO600 sounds like a fuller more mature earbud than the TO400



Had the ToneKing TO600 in my AliExpress Shopping Cart, and was also wanting a Moondrop Kanas Pro, but I'll have to wait a while.
The yard tractor / mower of my oldest uncle (he's 82), has worn out.  
So my other uncle has contacted all of us nieces & nephews, to see if we'd pitch in with him, to get a new mower for his brother.  
Even with his 10% discount (buying from a friend's shop), it's going to be ~$385 each for a new Cub Cadet lawn tractor.
I guess it'll be sometime after the first of the year, when I can order the TO600 earbuds.


----------



## maxxevv

HungryPanda said:


> Changed the cable that came with my Toneking TO600 for a copper 6 core balanced 2.5mm jack, earphone has come alive and I am absolutely loving them





HungryPanda said:


> The TO600 sounds like a fuller more mature earbud than the TO400



 

Fitted up my TO600's with these lovely 8-core, 2.5mm balanced cables from NiceHCK plugged to my desktop amp. 
I have to say, I'm astounded at how good these sound.   

But they are really power hungry though. I need to set my amp to volumes that are almost comparable to my HD6XX for these.


----------



## HungryPanda

My beauties


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> My beauties


I like the look of them more than the 400 once you swap out the cable, the contrast of copper and silver colours are quite stunning.


----------



## ROPVWV (Dec 11, 2018)

Hello there guys! I'd like to ask for a recomendation if yall don't mind...
I'm looking for earbuds that cost less than 20$, based on sq, comfort and my sound profile preferences. They can obviously be cheaper than that provided that they are just as nice (if not nicer) than the upper range of my budget.

I prefer an overall "balanced" sound, but leaning towards the warmer spectrum. I like my mids to be present and detailed, they should lead the sound (without becoming too overpowering). I should be able to hear the bass without struggling too much, I like a slight bass upraise from what would be considered a flat signature, but I wouldn't consider myself a bass-head by any means as I hate boomy and overly bloated lows that bleed into the midrange. It'd be nice to hear sub-bass too if present, but I highly doubt I'll get that without sacrificing what i just mentioned, specially with earbuds (in which case I'll have to do without sub-bass). I prefer my highs slightly toned down, they should still be fairly represented and audible, but I can´t stand sibilance, so I prefer them to be tamer when reaching the higher frequencies so that they´re easy on the ears.
Other characteristics I look for are high clarity and detail, nice soundstage and separation and lack of muddiness or muffling, although I do realize some of these atributes are not easily attainable at my price point.
I intend to connect them straight to the source (laptop and smartphone), without the use of a DAC or an amp.
Last but not least the housing should be somewhat comfortable for long sensions, eventhough i think this drastically limits my choices, so I might have to be more forgiving in this aspect.

I apologize for the overly long request, If you do have the grace to answer me I shall remain forever grateful. Thanks in advance.

P.S. I've been trying to read posts from a few months ago in order to catch up, but it's proven near impossible due to my university exam period being right around the corner. I hate to seem like the one who doesn't know how to use the search bar or to do some research.


----------



## HungryPanda

The silver cable that comes with the TO600 is very nice I just wanted a balanced connection and luckily the copper cable arrived the day after I got them.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

ROPVWV said:


> Hello there guys! I'd like to ask for a recomendation if yall don't mind...
> I'm looking for earbuds that cost less than 20$, based on sq, comfort and my sound profile preferences. They can obviously be cheaper than that provided that they are just as nice (if not nicer) than the upper range of my budget.
> 
> I prefer an overall "balanced" sound, but leaning towards the warmer spectrum. I like my mids to be present and detailed, they should lead the sound (without becoming too overpowering). I should be able to hear the bass without struggling too much, I like a slight bass upraise from what would be considered a flat signature, but I wouldn't consider myself a bass-head by any means as I hate boomy and overly bloated lows that bleed into the midrange. It'd be nice to hear sub-bass too if present, but I highly doubt I'll get that without sacrificing what i just mentioned, specially with earbuds (in which case I'll have to do without sub-bass). I prefer my highs slightly toned down, they should still be fairly represented and audible, but I can´t stand sibilance, so I prefer them to be tamer when reaching the higher frequencies so that they´re easy on the ears.
> ...



I think the RY4S with the UE cable might be a good choice for you.  Very nice sound. Clear and open but not sibilant to my ears.  Decent bass and nice mids. I find the regular RY4S a tad sibilant at times.


----------



## iron2k

Is anyone buying the Monk Plus Late Fall Edition???


----------



## Willber

ROPVWV said:


> Hello there guys! I'd like to ask for a recomendation if yall don't mind...
> I'm looking for earbuds that cost less than 20$, based on sq, comfort and my sound profile preferences. They can obviously be cheaper than that provided that they are just as nice (if not nicer) than the upper range of my budget.
> 
> I prefer an overall "balanced" sound, but leaning towards the warmer spectrum. I like my mids to be present and detailed, they should lead the sound (without becoming too overpowering). I should be able to hear the bass without struggling too much, I like a slight bass upraise from what would be considered a flat signature, but I wouldn't consider myself a bass-head by any means as I hate boomy and overly bloated lows that bleed into the midrange. It'd be nice to hear sub-bass too if present, but I highly doubt I'll get that without sacrificing what i just mentioned, specially with earbuds (in which case I'll have to do without sub-bass). I prefer my highs slightly toned down, they should still be fairly represented and audible, but I can´t stand sibilance, so I prefer them to be tamer when reaching the higher frequencies so that they´re easy on the ears.
> ...


Hi @ROPVWV

I would say that there are many buds that fit your sound and budget requirements, but my personal favourite are the FAAEAL Snow Lotus 1.0.

They have decent bass (tight but not very deep), warmish and lush mids (excellent for vocals) and detailed highs that aren't too bright. Separation is excellent and the soundstage is wide with decent height and depth. On top of that, they are excellently made. The cable is braided, flexible and almost tangle-free - it is my favourite out of all my collection. Also, the splitter and plug are machined from what looks like aluminium so are robust and light.

All in all they punch well above their price and they are my go-to buds before many others that are more expensive. They just seem to be 'right', very natural, and greater than the sum of their parts. Here is where I got them from (the clear ones):

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIF...445.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.47344c4d6kh1B1

Although others will I'm sure have their preferences, these are mine - and at less than $10 you can't go far wrong.


----------



## ROPVWV (Dec 11, 2018)

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> I think the RY4S with the UE cable might be a good choice for you.  Very nice sound. Clear and open but not sibilant to my ears.  Decent bass and nice mids. I find the regular RY4S a tad sibilant at times.


Awesome, thanks for the suggestion! can the ue version be found on aliexpress?



Willber said:


> Hi @ROPVWV
> 
> I would say that there are many buds that fit your sound and budget requirements, but my personal favourite are the FAAEAL Snow Lotus 1.0.
> 
> ...



Nice! thank you so much for your detailed response. Given that you state to also own them, how would you compre them to the quian39, quian69, ry4s, ry4s UE and memt T5?
Also, I intend to use my earbuds without the use of DAC or amp, straight from the source. Do you think a smartphone (and a laptop) will be able to drive them without problem? I've seen they're rated at 64 ohms


----------



## Marcos Fontana

ROPVWV said:


> Hello there guys! I'd like to ask for a recomendation if yall don't mind...
> I'm looking for earbuds that cost less than 20$, based on sq, comfort and my sound profile preferences. They can obviously be cheaper than that provided that they are just as nice (if not nicer) than the upper range of my budget.
> 
> I prefer an overall "balanced" sound, but leaning towards the warmer spectrum. I like my mids to be present and detailed, they should lead the sound (without becoming too overpowering). I should be able to hear the bass without struggling too much, I like a slight bass upraise from what would be considered a flat signature, but I wouldn't consider myself a bass-head by any means as I hate boomy and overly bloated lows that bleed into the midrange. It'd be nice to hear sub-bass too if present, but I highly doubt I'll get that without sacrificing what i just mentioned, specially with earbuds (in which case I'll have to do without sub-bass). I prefer my highs slightly toned down, they should still be fairly represented and audible, but I can´t stand sibilance, so I prefer them to be tamer when reaching the higher frequencies so that they´re easy on the ears.
> ...


Another amazing option is QianYum Qian69. Well balanced sound. The problem in my opinion is the cable. Works well with not so good sources.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

ROPVWV said:


> Awesome, thanks for the suggestion! can the ue version be found on aliexpress?



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4...211.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3e8e4c4doJMFU2

color options 3 and 4 are the UE cable versions...


----------



## ROPVWV

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4...211.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3e8e4c4doJMFU2
> 
> color options 3 and 4 are the UE cable versions...


Great! thanks pal


----------



## Willber

ROPVWV said:


> Nice! thank you so much for your detailed response. Given that you state to also own them, how would you compre them to the quian39, quian69, ry4s, ry4s UE and memt T5?


I prefer the SL 1.0 to all of them. There is nothing in my collection that I like better.


ROPVWV said:


> Also, I intend to use my earbuds without the use of DAC or amp, straight from the source. Do you think a smartphone (and a laptop) will be able to drive them without problem? I've seen they're rated at 64 ohms


I use a small FiiO amp, but I've just tested the SL straight out of my laptop and it sounds fine (the same, in fact).


----------



## subwoof3r

hello everybody 
My *Blox YIN review* is finally up, hope you'll enjoy!
Cheers'


----------



## seanc6441

subwoof3r said:


> hello everybody
> My *Blox YIN review* is finally up, hope you'll enjoy!
> Cheers'


Nice! Will read it when I get a break


----------



## Zerohour88

HungryPanda said:


> Changed the cable that came with my Toneking TO600 for a copper 6 core balanced 2.5mm jack, earphone has come alive and I am absolutely loving them



I know I'm going to regret asking this, but can you compare it to the NiceHCK EBX? they both are around the same price bracket, I think


----------



## HungryPanda

I find the Toneking TO600 has deeper and thicker bass and impact than the EBX. The EBX has a wider soundstage and is more airy. I prefer the Toneking but I am using it balanced and the EBX is single ended


----------



## exavolt

HungryPanda said:


> I find the Toneking TO600 has deeper and thicker bass and impact than the EBX. The EBX has a wider soundstage and is more airy. I prefer the Toneking but I am using it balanced and the EBX is single ended


Which amp you are using to drive the TO600?


----------



## HungryPanda

My Fostex HPA4BL


----------



## HungryPanda

thinking about both earbuds it is like comparing a Sennhieser HD650 to a Grado 325e


----------



## Zerohour88

HungryPanda said:


> I find the Toneking TO600 has deeper and thicker bass and impact than the EBX. The EBX has a wider soundstage and is more airy. I prefer the Toneking but I am using it balanced and the EBX is single ended





HungryPanda said:


> thinking about both earbuds it is like comparing a Sennhieser HD650 to a Grado 325e



thanks, that comparison is actually quite helpful. If I were to nitpick on the EBX, the bass impact is a bit lacking (especially on stuff I listen to like fripside), but the speed makes up for it (I'd take faster decay compared to high bass impact).


----------



## toear

Zerohour88 said:


> thanks, that comparison is actually quite helpful.



ditto... I was considering the ebx as well.

How about Toneking TO600 vs K's Samsara K300?

Thanks!


----------



## HungryPanda

I do not have the K's Samsara but I do have quite a few K's, the K's 300 Pro is quite close but the K's 600 is closest


----------



## toear

HungryPanda said:


> I do not have the K's Samsara but I do have quite a few K's, the K's 300 Pro is quite close but the K's 600 is closest



Ok thanks! So, K's 600 vs TO600?


----------



## rkw

HungryPanda said:


> I prefer the Toneking but I am using it balanced and the EBX is single ended


They both have MMCX connectors. Can't you swap the cable over for comparison?


----------



## subwoof3r

Selling *my Blox YIN* (in case anybody is interested)


----------



## waynes world

subwoof3r said:


> hello everybody
> My *Blox YIN review* is finally up, hope you'll enjoy!
> Cheers'



Very informative. Thanks.


----------



## seanc6441

subwoof3r said:


> Selling *my Blox YIN* (in case anybody is interested)


Didn't live up to the original hype?


----------



## euge

seanc6441 said:


> Didn't live up to the original hype?



I use it daily work and home, <3 it, but wish it was a yuin or smaller shell earbud


----------



## assassin10000

jant71 said:


> Had the PT25 for a couple of days. Pretty much all what ClieOS said. Comfy, good sound. Wasn't sure they were metal so they are more robustly built than I thought they would be. Problem is they are smaller than I thought they would be. I have, from ear infections as a youth more room on my right side than the left so hard to work with bit too small stuff as doubling foams or just one side or whatever to get the the same seal in both ears is a bit of a chore. So, if anyone is interested shoot me a PM. I will post them in my FS thread soon enough but give the heads up here first. Would trade for a Yincrow RW-9.





ClieOS said:


> Before you trade it away, try this: swap the left and right earpieces on cable, then wear them over-the-ear. Kind of give it a more analytical sound. Someone on erji.net taught me this.



I can confirm this. It causes the inner face ''vent" of the PT25 to be more (or a lot more) exposed which drops the bass/sub-bass response. If I touch the earbuds just enough that the face seals against my ears the bass becomes way more present.

Still burning mine in, only about 25-30 hours so far (left playing overnight). I'm also going to try some foam covers over these and see if they fit a bit better without sacrificing too much SQ. I may cut/melt holes into them like the earpod/airpods guys do. I'll probably also try covering the vents with some tape/vinyl or grab some micropore tape to see if I like it better with a bit more bass/sub-bass (without having to use the EQ).


----------



## Willber (Dec 12, 2018)

assassin10000 said:


> I can confirm this. It causes the inner face ''vent" of the PT25 to be more (or a lot more) exposed which drops the bass/sub-bass response. If I touch the earbuds just enough that the face seals against my ears the bass becomes way more present.
> 
> Still burning mine in, only about 25-30 hours so far (left playing overnight). I'm also going to try some foam covers over these and see if they fit a bit better without sacrificing too much SQ. I may cut/melt holes into them like the earpod/airpods guys do. I'll probably also try covering the vents with some tape/vinyl or grab some micropore tape to see if I like it better with a bit more bass/sub-bass (without having to use the EQ).


I put donut foams on mine which helps the fit, takes the sharpness off the treble and increases the bass slightly. I also wear them over-ear.


----------



## pbui44

Why does the Shozy Stardust look like the Yuin PK-series?  Is it possible that they share similar drivers?


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 12, 2018)

pbui44 said:


> Why does the Shozy Stardust look like the Yuin PK-series?  Is it possible that they share similar drivers?


Same housing, like the mx500 housing originally developed by sennheiser and now used in like 85% of chi fi earbuds. The Yuin PK type housing is also very popular for its comfortable size and snug fit.

And it seems that copyright is not a big obstacle in chinese manufacting.

Also you would be right to say the drivers are similar (same diameter and similar specs) but the tuning is different and the manufacturing process and build matierial on the diaphram/coil/magnet may vary somewhat.


----------



## subwoof3r

seanc6441 said:


> Didn't live up to the original hype?


I really enjoy them a lot, but it's just I want to try another TOTL that corresponds me better  (a better allrounder for electronic music mainly, which I listen approx 80% of the time)
And I already have my idea on which will be my next TOTL


----------



## jogawag (Dec 13, 2018)

pbui44 said:


> Why does the Shozy Stardust look like the Yuin PK-series?  Is it possible that they share similar drivers?



@ClieOS said below.
"Actually, that particular housing, which is often being referred as the PK housing, is not even Yuin's own design. It was originated from Japan and used on a few NTT Docomo's headset in the old days, probably all the way back to the late 90s.".

And Shozy Cygnus (and Stardust)'s housing is also the same as Docomo earbuds's.

In addition it is said that Shozy Cygnus's driver (which is made in Japan) is the same as Docomo earbuds's.
The FR graph of Shozy Cygnus and Docomo earbuds are almost same like below.





In this way, PK series and Shozy both have common Docomo earbuds housing. So it is possible that they can exchange drivers.


----------



## chinmie

subwoof3r said:


> I really enjoy them a lot, but it's just I want to try another TOTL that corresponds me better  (a better allrounder for electronic music mainly, which I listen approx 80% of the time)
> And I already have my idea on which will be my next TOTL



what would be your next conquest?


----------



## golov17

chinmie said:


> what would be your next conquest?


Cypherus maybe )))


----------



## subwoof3r

golov17 said:


> Cypherus maybe )))


Exactly 
ZoomFred Pro


----------



## golov17

subwoof3r said:


> Exactly
> ZoomFred Pro


----------



## assassin10000

assassin10000 said:


> I'll probably also try covering the vents with some tape/vinyl or grab some micropore tape to see if I like it better with a bit more bass/sub-bass (without having to use the EQ).



Well, I did the tape test and made little to no difference (to me). The increase in bass/sub-bass quantity is due to the light pressure I'm giving making the PT25 shape seal like an IEM against my ear canal.



Willber said:


> I put donut foams on mine which helps the fit, takes the sharpness off the treble and increases the bass slightly. I also wear them over-ear.



Good to know. I'm not treble sensitive (I think), I don't have any issues with sibilance on these at all. Although I don't have any 'good' sources, just my laptop and Note 4. I already ordered both regular and donut foams a while ago. Like everything else from aliexpress, just waiting for them to arrive.


----------



## creaturekyle

Just an FYI, Faaeal has most of their offerings available on Amazon in the US,  with a few Snow Lotus models available with same day shipping in my city. Ordered a Snow Lotus 1.0 and Narcissus 2.0. Can't wait to give them a shot.


----------



## cathee

I just picked up a pair of 64O Snow Lotus 2.5mm to use with my DX150 and they are fantastic!


----------



## creaturekyle (Dec 13, 2018)

Just received the Snow Lotus 1.0 64ohm, and I'm impressed.  Much warmer, fuller, and more bass forward than the VE Monk Plus, which is what I was hoping for.  Highs are a little more present than I like (but not sharp or sibilant), as I like my treble to roll off pretty significantly (Koss Porta Pro and Sennheiser IE80 S are my favourite sound signatures, for reference), but the Snow Lotus is still really impressive for me at first listen.  If you're someone who likes lots of detail while still getting good warmth and low end, these things will probably knock your socks off.  The foams are also way more lush and comfortable than the ones that come with the Monk Plus.  Packaging and build are both stupidly premium for an earbud that costs $10 and sounds this good.


----------



## Willber

creaturekyle said:


> Just received the Snow Lotus 1.0 64ohm, and I'm impressed.  Much warmer, fuller, and more bass forward than the VE Monk Plus, which is what I was hoping for.  Highs are a little more present than I like (but not sharp or sibilant), as I like my treble to roll off pretty significantly (Koss Porta Pro and Sennheiser IE80 S are my favourite sound signatures, for reference), but the Snow Lotus is still really impressive for me at first listen.  If you're someone who likes lots of detail while still getting good warmth and low end, these things will probably knock your socks off.  The foams are also way more lush and comfortable than the ones that come with the Monk Plus.  Packaging and build are both stupidly premium for an earbud that costs $10 and sounds this good.


I concur.


----------



## creaturekyle

Willber said:


> I concur.


Have you tried the Narcissus 2.0, and if so, how does it compare?  I've ordered it as well but it's going to take a few more weeks to get here, but I'm even more stoked for it now that I've listened to the Snow Lotus.


----------



## Willber

creaturekyle said:


> Have you tried the Narcissus 2.0, and if so, how does it compare?  I've ordered it as well but it's going to take a few more weeks to get here, but I'm even more stoked for it now that I've listened to the Snow Lotus.


Sorry, not in my collection.


----------



## silverfishla

creaturekyle said:


> Have you tried the Narcissus 2.0, and if so, how does it compare?  I've ordered it as well but it's going to take a few more weeks to get here, but I'm even more stoked for it now that I've listened to the Snow Lotus.


Datura X is a worthy bud, and my favorite of the Faaeal’s that I have.  I also have the Snow Lotus 2.0 and Narcisssus.  Both of those are good too.  The X is probably the best all rounder of the bunch and has a great visceral energy that I like.  Plus the build is great with a really comfy metal shell.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 10, 2021)

Just received a pair of _*PureSounds *_*醇声*_* PS100-600S*_* "Pop Edition" (*_*600Ω)*; *2.5TRRS Balanced*; *600-core copper cable*_ from @chaiyuta

I really like the feel of the cable; initial listening session commences!








Spoiler: PS100-600S Full Specifications














Ear Buds connected to "*Steampunk*"
The 2.5mm balanced to 3.5mm adapter is my now third *FiiO L26*... these lil' boogers sure do have legs!


----------



## j4100

WoodyLuvr said:


> Ear Buds connected to "*Steampunk*"
> The 2.5mm balanced to 3.5mm adapter is my now third *FiiO L26*... these lil' boogers sure do have legs!



Love the steampunk amp


----------



## ROPVWV

I would highly appreciate it if someone that's tried all three (or just 2) could give me a quick overview of how the Qian69, the ry4s UE and the Snow Lotus 1.0 compare in terms of highs, mids, lows, soundstage and separation. I want to buy a few headphones but I don't want too many of a similar signature (due to my minimalist nature), and as I understand it these are somewhat similar, so it would be nice to know which one is the closest to my preferences.
Thanks in advance.


----------



## creaturekyle

silverfishla said:


> Datura X is a worthy bud, and my favorite of the Faaeal’s that I have.  I also have the Snow Lotus 2.0 and Narcisssus.  Both of those are good too.  The X is probably the best all rounder of the bunch and has a great visceral energy that I like.  Plus the build is great with a really comfy metal shell.


How's the sound signature of the Datura X? Faaeal themselves say it has less bass than the Snow Lotus or Narcissus 2.0, so it doesn't sound like it's for me .


----------



## silverfishla (Dec 14, 2018)

creaturekyle said:


> How's the sound signature of the Datura X? Faaeal themselves say it has less bass than the Snow Lotus or Narcissus 2.0, so it doesn't sound like it's for me .


I can only compare to the Snow Lotus 2.0 and Narcissus but...I think the Datura X has more energy, better soundstage, better detail retrieval.  The bass is not lacking at all, but it is less pervasive.  The 2.0 has a more plentiful bass, but it's "fluffier", more encompassin but not as impactful.  I don't think the 2.0 or the Narcissus (which is actually a bit tamer than the 2.0 but cleaner) have as good a driver as the X.  I think the X is just more capable and competent as an all-rounder and fits better(for me).  There's just a solidity to it that the others don't quite have.  Could be the shell.
edit:  The bass.  I think it's more like the X has better separation of sub and low bass whereas the 2.0 kind of blends those two together more.


----------



## minnyB (Dec 16, 2018)

ClieOS said:


> PH-10 is a very well made earbud, consider that it only costs $10. It just lacks a bit of airiness and detail to make it to the next level.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## minnyB

How's Zeva Snow compared to Monk Plus?  Thank you!


----------



## minnyB

ClieOS said:


> WillSound MK1 Special Edition
> ZEVA 雪灵 Snow
> ZEVA 塞壬 Siren
> ZEVA 东皇 DonHuang (*East Emperor)


----------



## Red Elriza

I've been lurking about this thread quite a bit and I have to say everyone here really got me going into the whole Chi-fi earbuds thing. About two weeks ago I got the Ourart ACG and the Svara-L (32) in the mail. I bought them mainly because they look really nice -- that gunmetal look really kills it for me.

Both of them are excellent but have some quirks. When I first unboxed the ACG I was too lazy to apply the donuts (I think someone should put a how-to guide about these, somewhere) and I just threw the extra foams from the Monks on them. They were detailed in the treble but much too bright. After fiddling with them -- changing sources, amping, EQ, pressing them into my ears, whatnot -- I realized there were three inconspicuous vents at the back that weren't covered by the foams. Guess what, upon applying the original donuts (which cover the vents adequately) the bass was restored and brightness pared back. Now they sound positively crystalline -- I'm hazarding a guess that it's like the Ti7, but with more detail and less richness?

The Svaras were a different story. Right out of the box I drove them straight out of my Fiio X5 III and they just sounded painfully harsh, with vocals sounding like they were funneled through a paper cup. It's like drinking a cup of coffee that's too acidic, in the aural sense. But when I drove them out of my laptop > iFi Micro BL with the knob at 12 o'clock they sounded like how I'd imagined them from reading this thread. Very wide stage, rich but not overwhelming bass, and very, very impressive separation. The separation was what impressed me the most. I remember that someone on this thread complained that they were too bright. Maybe more power might solve that problem, based on my experience -- which is quite strange considering that they're 32ohms. And that means there's no way to use these in a portable fashion.

I might post some pics shortly, I got some really nice-looking cables for them.


----------



## toear

I bought a bunch of Vidos for Xmas gifts... And one to play with. Wow! Have to say these are a very good base for modding!

Recabled with sleeved breaded litz and tuned. 

My Samsara's are still king of depth but these are still holographic and wide, but not quite as dark. Litz was probably not the best choice for wire but it was cheap. Sleeving reduced microphonics significantly... Amazing!


----------



## Qualcheduno

Red Elriza said:


> The Svaras were a different story. Right out of the box I drove them straight out of my Fiio X5 III and they just sounded painfully harsh, with vocals sounding like they were funneled through a paper cup. It's like drinking a cup of coffee that's too acidic, in the aural sense. But when I drove them out of my laptop > iFi Micro BL with the knob at 12 o'clock they sounded like how I'd imagined them from reading this thread. Very wide stage, rich but not overwhelming bass, and very, very impressive separation. The separation was what impressed me the most. I remember that someone on this thread complained that they were too bright. Maybe more power might solve that problem, based on my experience -- which is quite strange considering that they're 32ohms. And that means there's no way to use these in a portable fashion.
> 
> I might post some pics shortly, I got some really nice-looking cables for them.


Strange, I usually drive them with my Xiaomi Mi A1 and to me they never sounded harsh (I use thin foams with them). I am pretty sensitive to brightness and treble spikes too (I haven't used my ATH-M40x in a while because of that).


----------



## DaniErre

Hi. I've been following this forum for a long time and first of all I want to say thank you. I'd like to have some of your great advice. I don't feel comfortable with IEMs and at the same time I don't feel comfortable to give them to someone. I want to give good quality earbuds round-up to my girlfriend. What can you suggest me in the range 50-100 euros? If it's possibile, something I can find on Amazon Italy to get a faster delivery.


----------



## waynes world (Dec 17, 2018)

Wow, these Sabia V6's are good.


----------



## nick n

That's a bit of an understatement there master waynesworld.


----------



## redkingjoe (Dec 17, 2018)

Danneq said:


> Wow!
> It was released after I bought my pair of ZF. There might be a small difference but I think ZF is good enough. Hope you like ZF too (even if the cable is a bit stiff).



Frankly, I won’t believe you would be settled with something that’s only good enough!


----------



## Danneq

redkingjoe said:


> Frankly, I won’t believe you would be settled with something that’s only good enough!



Well, after Swedish customs became strict and added import tax and customs fees to ALL packages from outside the EU, no matter the declared value, I have to start to settle with what is good enough.


----------



## j4100

I was starting to think my Fengru DIY PK1 2.5mm buds were not going to arrive, but here they are! Trust me not to have a 2.5mm to 3.5mm trs adaptor at work 

Only waiting on my Black Friday RY4S delivery. And my late fall edition monk. And my Rholupat order. Happy days.


----------



## LazerBear

DaniErre said:


> Hi. I've been following this forum for a long time and first of all I want to say thank you. I'd like to have some of your great advice. I don't feel comfortable with IEMs and at the same time I don't feel comfortable to give them to someone. I want to give good quality earbuds round-up to my girlfriend. What can you suggest me in the range 50-100 euros? If it's possibile, something I can find on Amazon Italy to get a faster delivery.



Welcome! First of all, since it seems that you don't have much experience with earbuds, I think I should point out to you that earbuds normally have a series of issues which IEMs normally don't: mainly lack of isolation and lack of sub bass (and more generally attenuated bass). That means that using earbuds in an even slightly noisy environment is not recommended.

If you're fine with that, let's move on to earbuds recommendation: you can find a nice recap of well-regarded earbuds in this post, courtesy of @Marcos Fontana: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2540#post-14638000 
If you can expand a bit more on your sound preferences, we can give you an additional hand sorting out those from the list that might not be appropriate. Keep in mind that a lot of the more expensive ones are in the 100+ ohms, which means you will need a good source powering them. If you're planning to use a cellphone, you should look at 32-64ohm max.


----------



## DaniErre (Dec 17, 2018)

LazerBear said:


> Welcome! First of all, since it seems that you don't have much experience with earbuds, I think I should point out to you that earbuds normally have a series of issues which IEMs normally don't: mainly lack of isolation and lack of sub bass (and more generally attenuated bass). That means that using earbuds in an even slightly noisy environment is not recommended.
> 
> If you're fine with that, let's move on to earbuds recommendation: you can find a nice recap of well-regarded earbuds in this post, courtesy of @Marcos Fontana: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2540#post-14638000
> If you can expand a bit more on your sound preferences, we can give you an additional hand sorting out those from the list that might not be appropriate. Keep in mind that a lot of the more expensive ones are in the 100+ ohms, which means you will need a good source powering them. If you're planning to use a cellphone, you should look at 32-64ohm max.



Thank you!


----------



## LazerBear

So, I've received the NiceHCK EBX and.. surprisingly I like it less than the EB2. Might have something to do with the fit, but I feel the highs are a bit too much (whereas the EB2 strikes a very good balance between extended and non-fatiguing) and does not correct the dip in the mids that I perceived in the EB2 enough to warrant me keeping them.

I'm thus adopting a two-pronged strategy: on one hand I'm trying to see if I can score a Rose Masya as an upgrade to the EB2, on the other I'm looking for advice for a darker set of earbuds in the 20-80$ range that can complement the EB2 for busier genres such as metal, hard rock etc.: any input would be greatly appreciated, I am currently looking at the 1More E1008.


----------



## redkingjoe

Danneq said:


> Well, after Swedish customs became strict and added import tax and customs fees to ALL packages from outside the EU, no matter the declared value, I have to start to settle with what is good enough.



I remember that you travel extensively! You can just ask them to ship to your hotel!

When I was in Taiwan or USA, I simply asked the shops to courier them to my hotel.


----------



## Danneq

redkingjoe said:


> I remember that you travel extensively! You can just ask them to ship to your hotel!
> 
> When I was in Taiwan or USA, I simply asked the shops to courier them to my hotel.



Nowadays we mainly go to Japan to visit my wife's mother and we stay at her place south of Tokyo. I have bought stuff from Yahoo auction and had it sent to her. I did that with the Moondrop Liebesleid that I bought this summer (and later sold here on Head fi).

That works pretty smoothly compared to have it sent to Sweden.


----------



## jogawag (Dec 17, 2018)

LazerBear said:


> So, I've received the NiceHCK EBX and.. surprisingly I like it less than the EB2. Might have something to do with the fit, but I feel the highs are a bit too much (whereas the EB2 strikes a very good balance between extended and non-fatiguing) and does not correct the dip in the mids that I perceived in the EB2 enough to warrant me keeping them.
> 
> I'm thus adopting a two-pronged strategy: on one hand I'm trying to see if I can score a Rose Masya as an upgrade to the EB2, on the other I'm looking for advice for a darker set of earbuds in the 20-80$ range that can complement the EB2 for busier genres such as metal, hard rock etc.: any input would be greatly appreciated, I am currently looking at the 1More E1008.



I recommend "*DIY SR2 16ohm TPE wire*" in AliExpress with about $15.
The strong bass sound as PK-type fits for busier genres such as metal, hard rock etc. And this earbuds are not bright.
I recommended this silver plated cable version before, but it seemed that sounded a bit too bright.

This earbuds need 200 hours burn-in.

This Earbuds looks cheap according to the price, but you will be amazed by *this powerful bass and wide sound stage*.
I feel this to *sound comparable to SWD2+* and I have been using this all the time especially outdoor for the last 3 months.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801646835.html
Select the 2nd in "Color:".


----------



## doggiemom

waynes world said:


> Wow, these Sabia V6's are good.


Yeh!  You got them!  What do you think?????  I ordered a second pair for work, now that they seem to be in stock consistently.  IMHO they are a great bang for the buck.


----------



## Willber

waynes world said:


> Wow, these Sabia V6's are good.


I can't find much info about these. Any chance of a (very) brief comparison with some other budget buds?


----------



## atmosfearz (Dec 18, 2018)

Hello, can anyone suggest some really good earbuds for ES100 (I've just decided to not take Pro82 everywhere). This thread is a really mess, I gave up after ~200 pages.  Firstly, my sight was on Rose Masya (It looks fabulous), but then I found a lot of choices, like DX3s, EBX, Linsoul BLD, BS1, E1008. Most of my music are rock.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

atmosfearz said:


> Hello, can anyone suggest some really good earphones for ES100 (I've just decided to not take Pro82 everywhere). This thread is a really mess, I gave up after ~200 pages.  Firstly, my sight was on Rose Masya (It looks fabulous), but then I found a lot of choices, like DX3s, EBX, Linsoul BLD, BS1, E1008. Most of my music are rock.


Hello!

Check the list in my signature. Some that are amazing: Svara L, TY HI-z 650ohms, RW-9, RY4S UE Cable and many others. Depends on how much do you want to pay.

Cheers


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

atmosfearz said:


> Hello, can anyone suggest some really good earphones for ES100 (I've just decided to not take Pro82 everywhere). This thread is a really mess, I gave up after ~200 pages.  Firstly, my sight was on Rose Masya (It looks fabulous), but then I found a lot of choices, like DX3s, EBX, Linsoul BLD, BS1, E1008. Most of my music are rock.



don't start from the beginning of the thread.  Just go back to about 20 or so pages from the last page and start from there.  Should get some good ideas...


----------



## atmosfearz

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> don't start from the beginning of the thread.  Just go back to about 20 or so pages from the last page and start from there.  Should get some good ideas...


The only thing I missed from last pages is Moondrop VX Pro.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

doggiemom said:


> Yeh!  You got them!  What do you think?????  I ordered a second pair for work, now that they seem to be in stock consistently.  IMHO they are a great bang for the buck.


Any comparisons to Vunbud? Got Vunbud a few weeks ago,  and not a huge fan, but still burning.


----------



## 40760 (Dec 18, 2018)

Really missed having the VE ZOE, so a pair is already ordered and on it's way...


----------



## bonson

jogawag said:


> I recommend "*DIY SR2 16ohm TPE wire*" in AliExpress with about $15.
> The strong bass sound as PK-type fits for busier genres such as metal, hard rock etc. And this earbuds are not bright.
> I recommended this silver plated cable version before, but it seemed that sounded a bit too bright.
> 
> ...


Eagerly want to try this SR2 but there are stuck at custom for now. It could be a new bargain for me after the rys4 hi version.


----------



## jogawag (Dec 18, 2018)

bonson said:


> Eagerly want to try this SR2 but there are stuck at custom for now. It could be a new bargain for me after the rys4 hi version.



I'm sure you will like the natural bass sound of SR2, so please try SR2 even if later.
I think that if you negotiate eagerly with seller you can cut down to $13.
If you will really like the sound of SR2 (after 200 hour burn-in), I'd like to ask you an small review.


----------



## bonson

jogawag said:


> I'm sure you will like the natural bass sound of SR2, so please try SR2 even if later.
> I think that if you negotiate eagerly with seller you can cut down to $13.
> If you will really like the sound of SR2 (after 200 hour burn-in), I'd like to ask you an small review.


i am not good at describing sound signature but i will try in few words.


----------



## jogawag (Dec 18, 2018)

bonson said:


> i am not good at describing sound signature but i will try in few words.



Thank you!
Also I am not good at describing sound signature.


----------



## waynes world

atmosfearz said:


> Hello, can anyone suggest some really good earbuds for ES100 (I've just decided to not take Pro82 everywhere). This thread is a really mess, I gave up after ~200 pages.  Firstly, my sight was on Rose Masya (It looks fabulous), but then I found a lot of choices, like DX3s, EBX, Linsoul BLD, BS1, E1008. Most of my music are rock.



You'll get as many answers as there are earbuds lol. How much do you want to spend?

The ES100 is a great gizmo though - love it! 



Marcos Fontana said:


> Hello!
> Check the list in my signature. Some that are amazing: Svara L, TY HI-z 650ohms, RW-9, RY4S UE Cable and many others. Depends on how much do you want to pay.
> Cheers



Yup, the Svara L's (32 ohms) and RY4S UE's are both great (for prices).


----------



## WoodyLuvr

atmosfearz said:


> Hello, can anyone suggest some really good earbuds for ES100 (I've just decided to not take Pro82 everywhere). This thread is a really mess, I gave up after ~200 pages.  Firstly, my sight was on Rose Masya (It looks fabulous), but then I found a lot of choices, like DX3s, EBX, Linsoul BLD, BS1, E1008. Most of my music are rock.


Many great suggestions already. You might consider a pair of *Blurs* by Wong Kuan Wae (*Instagram @ hennagaijin_boleh7*) and I am very much liking my *PureSounds PS100-600S* ear buds.


----------



## nick n (Dec 18, 2018)

EarKube 2.0   a.k.a.  Kube2

Special import from Indonesia  with the help of a most excellent seller.

*Redcarmoose *did an excellent job in the review, not much more I can add, the exceptional review covers it all.
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kube-2.22577/


----------



## waynes world

doggiemom said:


> Yeh!  You got them!  What do you think?????  I ordered a second pair for work, now that they seem to be in stock consistently.  IMHO they are a great bang for the buck.



They are the base Sabia V6 Experimentals with no modifications, so they are not technically the Vunbuds. But they are still great. And they only cost $18 US total (after shipping), so a pretty good price.



Willber said:


> I can't find much info about these. Any chance of a (very) brief comparison with some other budget buds?



They are great. My buddy got them for me, and I bought a backup pair (you can get them off of ebay here). 

The Sabia V6's sound very similar to the RY4S UE, but they have stronger bass and slightly more elevated highs. So if you'd like a slightly more V-shaped RY4S, these are the ones. The bass can really get thumping when called for, but without sounding like a muddy/boomy mess, so they are pretty amazing in that regard. Bassheads rejoice!

My buddy also introduced me to the Kube a while ago, and just recently the Kube2. Both are really different and cool beasts. They both have a fair amount of bass and nice mids (they excel in Chinmie's "Let Down" test lol). The Kube's highs are a bit more elevated than the Kube2's, but neither are too elevated, are both detailed, and are both non-fatiguing. The Kube2's seem overall warmer and are even more non-fatiguing, so they are great for long term sessions. What's also cool about them is that they both have big soundstages, with the Kube's soundstage being somewhat surreal.

Anyway, here they all are along with the RY4S UE:



 



BadReligionPunk said:


> Any comparisons to Vunbud? Got Vunbud a few weeks ago,  and not a huge fan, but still burning.



What are you not liking about the Vunbud?


----------



## waynes world

nick n said:


> EarKube 2.0   a.k.a.  Kube2
> 
> Special import from Indonesia  with the help of a most excellent seller.
> 
> ...



Hey there buddy!


----------



## nick n (Dec 19, 2018)

ha!

Better get on that Sabia link I seem to have slipped with my mouse trigger.
Though I asume they may have more in reserve?
It's backup sets for me and gift time for a couple lucky folks I know who would not otherwise try them at all.
I'd not bother if they didn't sound like this ( I'm getting fussy these days ).


I have the Sabias on right now actually listening to some New Retro Wave tunes. Went for a walk with them and forgot to take them off  when I came in.
Just kept on listening.

=== *Doggiemom *is right they do "bring it" , and it's both quality and quantity. ( I notice she also got a second set, as did *waynesworld*! )

 For the KUBE v1 and KUBE2  I echo everything you said.
I was expecting overblown murky sound but NOT SO
It's a crime they are not more available except from a few eastern countires, Indonesia in particular.
Hmm funny thing that Sabia link is from there. hmmm


----------



## atmosfearz (Dec 19, 2018)

waynes world said:


> You'll get as many answers as there are earbuds lol. How much do you want to spend?


As I get from thread there's really no point in overpaying for Earbuds, so I've just ordered new transparent version of RY4S ( https://aliexpress.com/item/RY4S-15-HIFI/32949600689.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.711033edEaOlXZ ), EMX500S, Qian69, Monk Plus. Better to buy 3rd Pro82s on the saved money.


----------



## jogawag (Dec 19, 2018)

atmosfearz said:


> As I get from thread there's really no point in overpaying for Earbuds, so I've just ordered new transparent version of RY4S ( https://aliexpress.com/item/RY4S-15-HIFI/32949600689.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.711033edEaOlXZ ), EMX500S, Qian69, Monk Plus.



I recommend you "DIY SR2 16ohm TPE wire"  as comfortable PK-Type small housing earbuds in AliExpress with about $15.
I think that if you negotiate eagerly with seller you can cut down to $13.


----------



## atmosfearz

jogawag said:


> I recommend you "DIY SR2 16ohm TPE wire"  as comfortable PK-Type small housing earbuds in AliExpress with about $15.
> I think that if you negotiate eagerly with seller you can cut down to $13.


Ok, thanks, gonna try too.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

waynes world said:


> They are the base Sabia V6 Experimentals with no modifications, so they are not technically the Vunbuds. But they are still great. And they only cost $18 US total (after shipping), so a pretty good price.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The things are beautiful.  The cable is fantastic.  The mids are boxy and a bit veiled.  Gobs and gobs of bass though.  Very little treble.  Weird sound sig.


----------



## jogawag (Dec 19, 2018)

atmosfearz said:


> Ok, thanks, gonna try too.



Then please let me know your impressions of "SR2" after 200 hours burn-in.


----------



## Willber (Dec 19, 2018)

waynes world said:


> The Sabia V6's sound very similar to the RY4S UE, but they have stronger bass and slightly more elevated highs. So if you'd like a slightly more V-shaped RY4S, these are the ones. The bass can really get thumping when called for, but without sounding like a muddy/boomy mess, so they are pretty amazing in that regard. Bassheads rejoice!


Thanks for that. I'm not a V-shape fan (I use EQ to bring out the mids where I think most of the interesting music is) so I'll probably give these a miss.


----------



## waynes world

BadReligionPunk said:


> The things are beautiful.  The cable is fantastic.  The mids are boxy and a bit veiled.  Gobs and gobs of bass though.  Very little treble.  Weird sound sig.



Huh! Your Vunbuds don't sound like the Sabia V6's that I have. Mine have ample treble (in fact, it might be a bit much for some), and the mids aren't boxy as far as I can tell.



Willber said:


> Thanks for that. I'm not a V-shape fan (I use EQ to bring out the mids where I think most of the interesting music is) so I'll probably give these a miss.



Makes sense. To clarify though, the mids on the V6's are not recessed, but they do take a bit farther back in the mix than the bass and treble.

I hadn't had a chance to listen to trance with the Sabia's before now, but yeah baby! Funbuds!


----------



## waynes world

waynes world said:


> I hadn't had a chance to listen to trance with the Sabia's before now, but yeah baby! Funbuds!



Yup, for electronic music like trance, the Sabia V6 Experimentals are "Funbuds" indeed!

If you love the Datura X's, but want more mid-bass and a bit less forward highs, these are for you


----------



## toear

... sidenote.

What are fellow Canucks doing for their earbud sources as it seems most Aliexpres sellers still not reinstated free shipping...?

thanks!


----------



## ROPVWV

Hello guys! what would you say is the difference in sound signature between FAAEAL snow lotus 1.0 and ry4s UE ? also, do both of them use the mx500 style housing or is one smaller than the other?


----------



## Willber (Dec 19, 2018)

ROPVWV said:


> Hello guys! what would you say is the difference in sound signature between FAAEAL snow lotus 1.0 and ry4s UE ? also, do both of them use the mx500 style housing or is one smaller than the other?


Quick answer - they use the same housing.
I prefer (as I've posted before) the SL 1.0 but would say that the RY4S UE has marginally the better bass definition.
But the SL is the only bud that I prefer to my AKG K702 which cost 20x the price!


----------



## mbwilson111

Two weeks ago my FENGRU DIY EMX500 Bro left the country.  Today it arrived in this country.  That was one long flight!!!!!


----------



## DBaldock9

mbwilson111 said:


> Two weeks ago my FENGRU DIY EMX500 Bro left the country.  Today it arrived in this country.  That was one long flight!!!!!



Have you had any air traffic controller strikes?


----------



## mbwilson111

DBaldock9 said:


> Have you had any air traffic controller strikes?



So if that happens, they just leave the planes in the air?  lol


----------



## assassin10000

I wanted some true wireless earbuds but couldn't find anything I liked, so I did this.







Heatgun and some patience. YMMV. It didn't go 100% perfect (due to my own impatience), the 'left' MMCX connector had the formed inner plastic tube/liner come free so it rotates a bit. Nothing that seems to affect use.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Any chifi MX985 (fengru tingo or whatever) out there??? 

Big love story for me (or sudden ephemeral passion will see).


----------



## Raketen

Danneq said:


> Well, after Swedish customs became strict and added import tax and customs fees to ALL packages from outside the EU, no matter the declared value, I have to start to settle with what is good enough.



Need to petition Jays to start making earbuds- even if it didn't sound good  it would almost certainly be comfortable and look hip


----------



## chinmie

assassin10000 said:


> I wanted some true wireless earbuds but couldn't find anything I liked, so I did this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



try the Sabbat X12 pro. it is the closest to a true wireless earbuds right now. great sound for the price also great functionality and battery life


----------



## assassin10000

chinmie said:


> try the Sabbat X12 pro. it is the closest to a true wireless earbuds right now. great sound for the price also great functionality and battery life



I saw those but not quite what I was looking for (I think). Plus I don't typically like 'wings' to hold anything in my ears, I have yet to find any that fit well and are comfortable for long use.

How would you describe the sound on them?


----------



## chinmie

assassin10000 said:


> I saw those but not quite what I was looking for (I think). Plus I don't typically like 'wings' to hold anything in my ears, I have yet to find any that fit well and are comfortable for long use.
> 
> How would you describe the sound on them?



i personally don't use the wings at all because it sits really nice on my ears. I've done handstands and running with it and it will not fall off. but mind you this is earpod type of fitting. if you can use earpods and similar products comfortably, this would be no problem at all. 

the sound is warm and nicely balanced, vocals are clear sits just nicely in volume compared to the bass and treble. bass is deep, but won't reach vido level or iem's, it's about on the same league as the PT15 in bass (the sabbat being a bit bigger and warmer in bass)

this is one of that leap of faith purchases, as i never hear it before and never read any reviews that i can trust about it. and it turns out to be a really satisfying purchase


----------



## sodesuka

Just got DP100 on a whim and boy was it a nice surprise. Just really nice sound without boosted anything that tends to muck up overall balance. Nice accurate vocals (neither too thin nor overly thick though kinda veers to highs which makes it a bit better on female vocals than male), nice timbre all around, and stupid cheap to boot. Fell out of buds world after trying and getting disappointed by some pricey buds like TY HiZ650, Ve Zen 2 and Liebesleid (though it's mostly due to my own expectations I guess). DP100 may be unremarkable with nothing that truly stands out but it's exactly what I need in earbuds.

They're kinda sensitive to sources though, sound different from my tablet (bright), MU2 (good), and Mojo (best).


----------



## Marcos Fontana

sodesuka said:


> Just got DP100 on a whim and boy was it a nice surprise. Just really nice sound without boosted anything that tends to muck up overall balance. Nice accurate vocals (neither too thin nor overly thick though kinda veers to highs which makes it a bit better on female vocals than male), nice timbre all around, and stupid cheap to boot. Fell out of buds world after trying and getting disappointed by some pricey buds like TY HiZ650, Ve Zen 2 and Liebesleid (though it's mostly due to my own expectations I guess). DP100 may be unremarkable with nothing that truly stands out but it's exactly what I need in earbuds.
> 
> They're kinda sensitive to sources though, sound different from my tablet (bright), MU2 (good), and Mojo (best).


Hello!

Could you share the URL/link to it?


----------



## sodesuka

Marcos Fontana said:


> Hello!
> 
> Could you share the URL/link to it?


Bought mine on local market here but it should be the same as these, I think: 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...dset-HiFi-In-Ear-Earphone-HD/32823196981.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...iFi-In-Ear-Earphone-HD-Sound/32831005293.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...arbuds-For-all-mobile-phones/32822909531.html
(mine's the one with black cable).


----------



## Marcos Fontana

sodesuka said:


> Bought mine on local market here but it should be the same as these, I think:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...dset-HiFi-In-Ear-Earphone-HD/32823196981.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...iFi-In-Ear-Earphone-HD-Sound/32831005293.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...arbuds-For-all-mobile-phones/32822909531.html
> (mine's the one with black cable).


Ty very much! Bought it


----------



## sodesuka

Marcos Fontana said:


> Ty very much! Bought it


Try them with donut foams (I used Hiegi's) when you get them. They really are unremarkable without donut foams as I just found out lol


----------



## Willber

sodesuka said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...iFi-In-Ear-Earphone-HD-Sound/32831005293.html


Clear shell, silver cable, orange bits? Got to have those - yoink!

(Also, I like to try different shaped buds, even though these have been around for a few years.)


----------



## tayo15

I bought the snow lotus 2.0, did I just make a mistake?


----------



## atmosfearz

tayo15 said:


> I bought the snow lotus 2.0, did I just make a mistake?


Yeap, Big Mac is better value, overall.


----------



## HungryPanda

tayo15 said:


> I bought the snow lotus 2.0, did I just make a mistake?


No mistake, they are very nice indeed


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

how are these ones fellas?  

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HAN...7.0&pvid=dac9471c-2db9-4201-94be-b856c4f669d3


----------



## Hououin Kyouma

Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0+ vs RY4S UE in term of vocal? I've already had 5 SL 1.0+ earbuds but still wanna try RY4S UE. Thanks for replying


----------



## Willber

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> how are these ones fellas?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HAN...7.0&pvid=dac9471c-2db9-4201-94be-b856c4f669d3


Quite popular but I didn't like them. They have resided in my Drawer of Disappointment for over a year.


----------



## jogawag (Dec 20, 2018)

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> how are these ones fellas?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HAN...7.0&pvid=dac9471c-2db9-4201-94be-b856c4f669d3



By @ClieOS, Qian25 : "Very similar sounding to Original VE Monk, but without getting too echo-ish."


----------



## Willber (Dec 20, 2018)

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> how are these ones fellas?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HAN...7.0&pvid=dac9471c-2db9-4201-94be-b856c4f669d3


If you're looking for a real cheapie I recommend the Vido or Sony E808+:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Sony-MDR-E8...h=item41f60736c9:g:9fsAAOSwFFZZehAg:rk:1:pf:0

Deep, punchy bass with a wide soundstage and decent clarity. They are also the most comfortable buds in my collection. Burn-in (approx 30 hours) required.


----------



## Zerohour88

LazerBear said:


> So, I've received the NiceHCK EBX and.. surprisingly I like it less than the EB2. Might have something to do with the fit, but I feel the highs are a bit too much (whereas the EB2 strikes a very good balance between extended and non-fatiguing) and does not correct the dip in the mids that I perceived in the EB2 enough to warrant me keeping them.
> 
> I'm thus adopting a two-pronged strategy: on one hand I'm trying to see if I can score a Rose Masya as an upgrade to the EB2, on the other I'm looking for advice for a darker set of earbuds in the 20-80$ range that can complement the EB2 for busier genres such as metal, hard rock etc.: any input would be greatly appreciated, I am currently looking at the 1More E1008.



sorry to hear that the EBX didn't work out for you. Yeah, the fit is a bit finnicky (wearing it over-ear helps a bit, but my experiment with ear hooks have been unsuccessful so far with the hooks I ordered being too large, need to order another smaller set).

I came from the Toneking TO180 (which had very lively mids) and I quite like the mids on the EBX too (the upper mids and highs sparkles a bit more compared to the TO180)


----------



## HungryPanda

I always wear my EBX over ear


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

Got my EMX500S buds yesterday.  So far I'd say they are pretty much right on par with the RY4S UE earbuds.  Both very good...


----------



## snip3r77

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> Got my EMX500S buds yesterday.  So far I'd say they are pretty much right on par with the RY4S UE earbuds.  Both very good...


I have the ry4s UE, should I be thinking of emx500s ? A sidegrade?


----------



## 40760

golov17 said:


> Love this cable from VE )))



Decided to also add on the Pure Blue and Oyaide 102 SSC Cables since they're 50% off with my ZOE purchase...


----------



## j4100

palestofwhite said:


> Decided to also add on the Pure Blue and Oyaide 102 SSC Cables since they're 50% off with my ZOE purchase...



The Oyaide is good, but it's a bit stiff and microphonic. Doesn't bother me since I don't use my ZOE on the move, but the blue cable is neither of those things. It's nice and soft and not microphonic at all. Great cable.


----------



## 40760 (Dec 21, 2018)

j4100 said:


> The Oyaide is good, but it's a bit stiff and microphonic. Doesn't bother me since I don't use my ZOE on the move, but the blue cable is neither of those things. It's nice and soft and not microphonic at all. Great cable.



I've used the Oyaide with my previous ZOE and it's this combo I missed so badly that I ordered them all over again.

As for the Pure Blue I'm not really sure what to expect. Silver cables usually bring out the details but I don't know if this one will decrease the presentation of the lows, which I thoroughly enjoy about the Zen, especially with the Oyaide. Besides, they also cost a few times more, so I sure hope they're good!

If not for the 50% off, I probably wouldn't be picking them up at its full retail price.


----------



## j4100

palestofwhite said:


> I've used the Oyaide with my previous ZOE and it's this combo I missed so badly that I ordered them all over again.
> 
> As for the Pure Blue I'm not really sure what to expect. Silver cables usually bring out the details but I don't know if this one will decrease the presentation of the lows, which I thoroughly enjoy about the Zen, especially with the Oyaide. Besides, they also cost a few times more, so I sure hope they're good!
> 
> If not for the 50% off, I probably wouldn't be picking them up at its full retail price.



I don't think it made much of a difference to the bass, but that's just my ears, YMMV. Playing my usually selection of music on my FiiO X5ii->RA 2.0bl->ZOE blue cable is pretty much TOTL for me. Not sure how much better the sound could be without an excessive spend for a small increase in SQ.

Yeah, 50% off makes it  resonable price, I wouldn't have paid twice that. Enjoy them when they arrive!


----------



## Hououin Kyouma

Hououin Kyouma said:


> Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0+ vs RY4S UE in term of vocal? I've already had 5 SL 1.0+ earbuds but still wanna try RY4S UE. Thanks for replying


Please give me an answer  Thanks


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

snip3r77 said:


> I have the ry4s UE, should I be thinking of emx500s ? A sidegrade?



really about the only difference i note is maybe a tiny bit of harshness in the mids on the EMX500S compared to the RY4S UE.  But really they are very very close afaic...


----------



## Willber

snip3r77 said:


> I have the ry4s UE, should I be thinking of emx500s ? A sidegrade?


Although I like both of the above, they have different characters. The RY4S UE has tight bass, decent soundstage and excellent clarity, but it is a bit cool and the mids (vocals) are a little thin. On the other hand, the EMX500S is overall warmer and darker, and although the soundstage is bigger there is less definition throughout the FR.

Better than both of them IMO is the Snow Lotus 1.0. It has most of the best aspects of the other two, the mids are more natural and forward than both, and overall is the better all-rounder to my ears.


----------



## creaturekyle

ROPVWV said:


> Hello guys! what would you say is the difference in sound signature between FAAEAL snow lotus 1.0 and ry4s UE ? also, do both of them use the mx500 style housing or is one smaller than the other?


I've not heard the ry4s UE so I cannot speak to their sound, but I love a warm, bassy sound signature and the Snow Lotus 1.0 is the best earbud I've ever used. Really good bass, great mids, and great detail, all with fantastic resolution.


----------



## subwoof3r

Do you guys are really talking about Snow Lotus *1.0* ? or the discontinued *1.0+* ?
I think I will order 2 pairs of 1.0 tonight anyway


----------



## fairx

OMG I'm in Dub heaven right now with Ry4s UE. Everybody who owns ry4s should listen to this

More and more dub album coming out with such quality tribute to the scientist and king tubby.

Too bad I can't push too hard because left driver developing some distortion on heavy bass

And one more thing. Can you guys who listen to this album comment on how well suited your earbud on this genre? TQ


----------



## seanc6441

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> really about the only difference i note is maybe a tiny bit of harshness in the mids on the EMX500S compared to the RY4S UE.  But really they are very very close afaic...


Emx500 is brighter but I find the ry4s the more agressive in the mids, more emphasis around 1khz meaning more shout. Neither are too harsh though


Willber said:


> Although I like both of the above, they have different characters. The RY4S UE has tight bass, decent soundstage and excellent clarity, but it is a bit cool and the mids (vocals) are a little thin. On the other hand, the EMX500S is overall warmer and darker, and although the soundstage is bigger there is less definition throughout the FR.
> 
> Better than both of them IMO is the Snow Lotus 1.0. It has most of the best aspects of the other two, the mids are more natural and forward than both, and overall is the better all-rounder to my ears.


My original emx500 is about as bright as the ry4s but less agressive.


----------



## ROPVWV

creaturekyle said:


> I've not heard the ry4s UE so I cannot speak to their sound, but I love a warm, bassy sound signature and the Snow Lotus 1.0 is the best earbud I've ever used. Really good bass, great mids, and great detail, all with fantastic resolution.


Awesome! I'm looking for a balanced sound signature leaning towards the warmer side of the spectrum without the mids feeling too receded, but I worried I'd struggle to hear the bass with this model


----------



## mbwilson111

subwoof3r said:


> Do you guys are really talking about Snow Lotus *1.0* ? or the discontinued *1.0+* ?
> I think I will order 2 pairs of 1.0 tonight anyway



I have both the 1.0 and the 1.0+.  I enjoy both.  I can easily recommend the 1.0 which is the only one of the two available.


----------



## MisterMudd

Willber said:


> Although I like both of the above, they have different characters. The RY4S UE has tight bass, decent soundstage and excellent clarity, but it is a bit cool and the mids (vocals) are a little thin. On the other hand, the EMX500S is overall warmer and darker, and although the soundstage is bigger there is less definition throughout the FR.
> 
> Better than both of them IMO is the Snow Lotus 1.0. It has most of the best aspects of the other two, the mids are more natural and forward than both, and overall is the better all-rounder to my ears.


Snow-Lotus 1.0 is good, but I scored what must have been the last Snow-Lotus 1.0+ on Amazon US, and I am here to tell you the 1.0+ is wwaaaayyy better than the plain 1.0. I wish they had not discontinued the 1.0+ as I would have bought 10 pairs. Better clarity, separation, awesome bass, and huge soundstage.


----------



## mbwilson111

MisterMudd said:


> Snow-Lotus 1.0 is good, but I scored what must have been the last Snow-Lotus 1.0+ on Amazon US, and I am here to tell you the 1.0+ is wwaaaayyy better than the plain 1.0. I wish they had not discontinued the 1.0+ as I would have bought 10 pairs. Better clarity, separation, awesome bass, and huge soundstage.



But there is no point in saying that if people cannot get a 1.0+...

I actually do not know which one I like better... I think it is whichever is in my ears.  I just get lost in the music most of the time and don't really try to find fault with my buds, iems or headphones.


----------



## Willber

subwoof3r said:


> Do you guys are really talking about Snow Lotus *1.0* ? or the discontinued *1.0+* ?


1.0 - I don't have the 1.0+.


----------



## Willber

seanc6441 said:


> My original emx500 is about as bright as the ry4s but less agressive.


I don't have the original EMX500 but I do have the DIY EMX500 PK2. I find it brighter than the EMXS500. In fact it is very similar to the RY4S UE (it shares the same cable) but slightly warmer, especially the mids. I prefer it, and the PK2 shell is more comfortable.


----------



## seanc6441

Willber said:


> I don't have the original EMX500 but I do have the DIY EMX500 PK2. I find it brighter than the EMXS500. In fact it is very similar to the RY4S UE (it shares the same cable) but slightly warmer, especially the mids. I prefer it, and the PK2 shell is more comfortable.


Not sure why they dont sell that earbud separately. As it's not an emx500 driver and is practically a different earbud (since 15.4mm drivers wont fit in pk shells).

Hows the bass on the pk emx500 compared to Ry4S and emx500s?


----------



## Willber

seanc6441 said:


> Not sure why they dont sell that earbud separately. As it's not an emx500 driver and is practically a different earbud (since 15.4mm drivers wont fit in pk shells).


I'm not sure either. It is a bit hidden away in this advert - option 11:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...867.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.ebfa4c4dSjPb3L


seanc6441 said:


> Hows the bass on the pk emx500 compared to Ry4S and emx500s?


The EMX500 PK has very similar bass to the RY4S UE - tight and punchy, very well defined. The EMXS500 is deeper but woollier. Not badly so, just a different approach to presenting the music.


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> I've done handstands and running with it and it will not fall off.



I hope you have a video to share!


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> I hope you have a video to share!



no!


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> no!



Well maybe today will be a nice day to make a video!  Add some cartwheels too!  You have to thoroughly test these buds...maybe some bungee jumping.


----------



## phower (Dec 22, 2018)

Finally, the doubts have been cleared.
Break-in have been scientifically tested and found to be non-existent 
The only difference was in THD and it was found to be less than 0.1%
You can listen to how the headphones sounded before and after break-in testing at

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/learn/break-in


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 22, 2018)

phower said:


> Finally, the doubts have been cleared.
> Break-in have been scientifically tested and found to be non-existent
> The only difference was in THD and it was found to be less than 0.1%
> You can also listen to how the headphones sounded at each interval.
> ...


That didn't stop cable believers (measurements) and it won't stop people believing in burn in!

It's funny because there's people who say cables are nonsense but believe fully in burn and and vice versa.

Also didn't they measure the AKG K701 and find there to be a difference pre and post burn in? (This was one of the few times the difference was 'measureable').

My point being it's difficult to say ANYTHING with 100% conviction when it comes to audio gear. Whether that's pro or anti cables/burn in etc.


----------



## phower

seanc6441 said:


> That didn't stop cable believers (measurements) amd it won't stop people believing in burn in!
> 
> It's funny because there's people who say cables are nonsense but believe fully in burn and and vice versa.


Some audiophiles are stubborn. It is almost a mental disorder
Break-in might be relevant to loud speakers where the cloth/rubber _surround _needs to become pliable, but headphone drivers don't have such components.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 22, 2018)

phower said:


> Some audiophiles are stubborn. It is almost a mental disorder
> Break-in might be relevant to loud speakers where the cloth/rubber _surround _needs to become pliable, but headphone drivers don't have such components.


Well I like to keep an open mind when it comes to audio because there may be factors we just don't forsee with current measurements. So i dont but all my eggs in one basket so to speak.

Another interesting debate is whether tone woods in headphone cups make a difference to the sound. ZMF headphones for instance, seem to employ many different wood types to tune their headphones. As their owner originally made acoustic guitars as a hobby, so has a preference for wooden headphones and using the wood to benefit the final tuning rather than just an aesthetic feature.

Others will strongly disagree that the matieral makes any meaningful difference so long as the density is enough to negate vibrations. Although admittedly im not knowledgeable enough to dive any deeper into this topic, I'm no acoustic engineer


----------



## HungryPanda

phower said:


> Some audiophiles are stubborn. It is almost a mental disorder
> Break-in might be relevant to loud speakers where the cloth/rubber _surround _needs to become pliable, but headphone drivers don't have such components.


But of course they do


----------



## waynes world

phower said:


> Some audiophiles are stubborn. It is almost a mental disorder
> Break-in might be relevant to loud speakers where the cloth/rubber _surround _needs to become pliable, but headphone drivers don't have such components.



I don't really consider myself an audiophile. And I couldn't really care less if burn in does anything. But, based on my experience, burn in definitely does have an effect on some gear, and not so much (if at all) with other gear. Yes, I'm mental lol


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache (Dec 22, 2018)

I don't mind the idea of a couple hours of burn in even though I don't really strongly believe it makes a notable difference (and ftmp I just listen to the buds and let them burn in as I use them), but the idea that a set of buds needs 100 or 200 hours of burn in before you can judge them is sorta crazy imho...and I 100% don't think the manufacturer would design them that way if burn in is a real thing...


----------



## rkw

seanc6441 said:


> Another interesting debate is whether tone woods in headphone cups make a difference to the sound.


There is no debate about that at all. Different woods have different hardness and resonance, and it shows up in headphone measurements.

For example, the Massdrop Fostex TH-X00 comes in mahogany, purpleheart and ebony wood versions. Among those, ebony is the densest, least resonant wood and adds the least coloration to the sound (but some may find coloration preferable).
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fostex-x-massdrop-th-x00-review.788776/page-486#post-12718398


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Second time asking same question...and its because I feel this is the ONE!! I prefer these to EMX500, but I still love the 500, its just its just too good to be true IMO

So, did anybody here try these Mx985 and can share their toughs?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot...073.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2b004c4dDu3wPE


----------



## seanc6441

rkw said:


> There is no debate about that at all. Different woods have different hardness and resonance, and it shows up in headphone measurements.
> 
> For example, the Massdrop Fostex TH-X00 comes in mahogany, purpleheart and ebony wood versions. Among those, ebony is the densest, least resonant wood and adds the least coloration to the sound (but some may find coloration preferable).
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fostex-x-massdrop-th-x00-review.788776/page-486#post-12718398


I'm not saying they make no difference but I've seen people blatantly state as much. I'll give you a good example, when people apply cup mods to grados swapping out the plastic cups for wood variants. Now I know the effect is considerably less the more open the back is, less backwave resonance to colour the sound. But I've heard people comment on it being a purely aesthetic change and that it couldnt possibly effect the sound.


----------



## chinmie

if something needs hundreds of hours just to sound best or the way the maker intended, then they should be doing that burn in inside the factory first before selling them. 

a couple of hours make sense. sounds great out of the box (and stay that way for the rest of the time) is golden.

the worst kind is when the sound gets worse after use compared to ootb


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> if something needs hundreds of hours just to sound best or the way the maker intended, then they should be doing that burn in inside the factory first before selling them.
> 
> a couple of hours make sense. sounds great out of the box (and stay that way for the rest of the time) is golden.
> 
> the worst kind is when the sound gets worse after use compared to ootb


I dont think burn in does enough to 'change the signature' so if it sounds bad out of box i don't believe any amount of burn in will fix it. Simply our brains adjust to the sound and it becomes less odd. But that still doesn't make it preferable.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> I dont think burn in does enough to 'change the signature' so if it sounds bad out of box i don't believe any amount of burn in will fix it. Simply our brains adjust to the sound and it becomes less odd. But that still doesn't make it preferable.



in some cases, it does make a difference. some notable cases to me personally were the Ty Hi Z 32 and the Willsound PK32. at first i listened to them, i genuinely thought there's something wrong with them...so i put them playing continuously for a some hours and just do my daily business. then when i came back to them, the sound really did changed for the better. there's no brain adjusting to this because i didn't listen to them during burn in, and i use the same headphone (my old M50) as benchmark during before and after burn in.

that's some rare cases though. most of the time if it sounds bad from the start, even after burn in it would sound relatively bad also. there might be some improvements, but i just don't care because the negative points still outweighs the improvements


----------



## 40760

j4100 said:


> I don't think it made much of a difference to the bass, but that's just my ears, YMMV. Playing my usually selection of music on my FiiO X5ii->RA 2.0bl->ZOE blue cable is pretty much TOTL for me. Not sure how much better the sound could be without an excessive spend for a small increase in SQ.
> 
> Yeah, 50% off makes it  resonable price, I wouldn't have paid twice that. Enjoy them when they arrive!



Sounds promising! Definitely looking forward to listening to them now. Only problem is I ordered the ZOE first then decided to add on the discounted cables later. So the upgrade cables will only arrive later.


----------



## fairx

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Second time asking same question...and its because I feel this is the ONE!! I prefer these to EMX500, but I still love the 500, its just its just too good to be true IMO
> 
> So, did anybody here try these Mx985 and can share their toughs?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot...073.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2b004c4dDu3wPE


It's been on my cart for some time. How do you like it to Dp100?


----------



## Willber

fairx said:


> It's been on my cart for some time. How do you like it to Dp100?


I hope they're good, mine have just been shipped!


----------



## BlacLord

I'm looking to upgrade from my Monk+ and was wondering if the Sennheiser MX475 are considered that? Looking for some earbuds no more than £40 ($60ish), since in-ears even with the smallest covers leave me sore and achy within a minute or so.


----------



## doggiemom

Hey guys, did you know that there is a sound science forum on Head-fi?


----------



## jogawag

doggiemom said:


> Hey guys, did you know that there is a sound science forum on Head-fi?


Please tell me where is a sound science forum on Head-fi.


----------



## euge

K's KS LBB In Earphone Earbud DJ HIFI Earphone Flat Head Plug Earplugs Alloy CNC Shell With 4N Oxygen free copper cable

New Moondrop VX Classic Earbud Hifi Earphone Alloy Tune High Bass Qaulity Flat Head Earbuds With 4N Litz OFC Cable

2 new ones on the banned store? both metal!


----------



## doggiemom

jogawag said:


> Please tell me where is a sound science forum on Head-fi.


I'm not sure if you are pulling my leg or not, so JIC if it is "not"....... https://www.head-fi.org/forums/sound-science.133/


----------



## seanc6441

euge said:


> K's KS LBB In Earphone Earbud DJ HIFI Earphone Flat Head Plug Earplugs Alloy CNC Shell With 4N Oxygen free copper cable
> 
> New Moondrop VX Classic Earbud Hifi Earphone Alloy Tune High Bass Qaulity Flat Head Earbuds With 4N Litz OFC Cable
> 
> 2 new ones on the banned store? both metal!


The Ks in black is very interesting. Could have done with a proper bass port/stem than that weird looking bobble thingy. But maybe it's irrelevant to the sound.

The Moondrop aesthetically looks better, but my god that thick front cover looks painful to get a good fit with. Not sure if I'll bite the bullet on that one, but I probably will on the K's LBB.


----------



## euge

seanc6441 said:


> The Ks in black is very interesting. Could have done with a proper bass port/stem than that weird looking bobble thingy. But maybe it's irrelevant to the sound.
> 
> The Moondrop aesthetically looks better, but my god that thick front cover looks painful to get a good fit with. Not sure if I'll bite the bullet on that one, but I probably will on the K's LBB.



 black or silver?


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 23, 2018)

euge said:


> black or silver?


Black for K's because the silver one looks weird. Not a silver alloy shell 

The moondrop buds always looks fantastic, look the chromed effect.

If the K's bud sounds the part it'll be a hit. Great shell for snug fit and cavity size. Metal build looks durable. Cable looks nothing fancy but it looks well made. This could be the new budget champion


----------



## seanc6441

euge said:


> black or silver?


Ok just bought the K's LBB in black


----------



## rkw (Dec 23, 2018)

doggiemom said:


> Hey guys, did you know that there is a sound science forum on Head-fi?


I tend to avoid it. There's a reason that the top of that forum has links to "How to disagree", "Refutation = OK. Abuse & attacks are not OK", etc.
A lot of heated arguments between objectivists and subjectivists (if you don't know about those two camps in the audio world, good for you).


----------



## Palash

ShoonTH ESEP-01BL / Explorer L , Punchy Bass, rich Mids and  relatively well behaved treble only for 27$. 
My full review - 
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/shoonth-esep-01bl-explorer-l.23392/reviews


----------



## jogawag (Dec 24, 2018)

BlacLord said:


> I'm looking to upgrade from my Monk+ and was wondering if the Sennheiser MX475 are considered that? Looking for some earbuds no more than £40 ($60ish), since in-ears even with the smallest covers leave me sore and achy within a minute or so.



The sound of Sennheiser MX475 focuses on treble. However, the sound of the Sennheiser MX375 which is brothers model is focused on bass as like Monk+.
Since the sound of the MX375 is closer to the sound of Monk+ than the sound of MX475, I recommend MX375 as the upgrade of Monk+.

If you like MX500 housing which is same as Monk+, I recommend HE150 for the soundstage and bass.
If you like PK housing which is small, I recommend SR2 16ohm TPE WIRE at Aliexpress for the soundstage and bass.


----------



## j4100 (Dec 24, 2018)

Thought my AP80 had finally arrived, as I had a card saying Customs fee to pay. I can tell you I was really disappointed to be paying a £12 Customs fee for $34 worth of RY earphones. Take this as a warning that RY will state the full value on the box, which is fair enough for them, but not what I was expecting.

Edit: on a positive note, I now have my GM500 and RY4S with UE cable, plus the RY10 IEMs for my skull obsessed grandson


----------



## ClieOS

荣K68+
K's (凯) Little Black Bell (LBB 小黑铃)
MoonDrop VXC
MoonDrop VXJ


----------



## Willber

j4100 said:


> Thought my AP80 had finally arrived, as I had a card saying Customs fee to pay. I can tell you I was really disappointed to be paying a £12 Customs fee for $34 worth of RY earphones. Take this as a warning that RY will state the full value on the box, which is fair enough for them, but not what I was expecting.


Thanks for the heads-up. I have ordered from RY a couple of times without problems, but I will make sure to check in the future.


----------



## HungryPanda

Trick is to not order too many things at once, I make single purchases so packets are sent out in multiples


----------



## Willber

HungryPanda said:


> Trick is to not order too many things at once, I make single purchases so packets are sent out in multiples


Do you know what the threshold price for avoiding customs in the UK is?


----------



## j4100

Willber said:


> Do you know what the threshold price for avoiding customs in the UK is?



No idea, but I thought it might be a bit more than $34!!!


----------



## j4100

HungryPanda said:


> Trick is to not order too many things at once, I make single purchases so packets are sent out in multiples



Funnily enough, this is the first time I have paid anything to the Customs, despite ordering various more expensive bits of kit, never mind multiple earbuds of varying costs. Karma, I guess 

Amusingly, I didn't get whacked for my other delivery today from Rholupat - Vunbuds, Raid V2, and Willsound Mk2 VJC 2.5mm. Merry Xmas to me


----------



## Willber

j4100 said:


> No idea, but I thought it might be a bit more than $34!!!


Looks like you're right:
https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

VAT charged on goods over £15
Customs Duty charged on goods over £135


----------



## j4100

Willber said:


> Looks like you're right:
> https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty
> 
> VAT charged on goods over £15
> Customs Duty charged on goods over £135



I'd complain, but they would probably put me on the naughty step.


----------



## HungryPanda

£16 is the UK threshold, then %20 & £8 Royal mail charge, DHL charge £11


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> I'd complain, but they would probably put me on the naughty step.



They probably put the value at $20 which would put it above the threshold in pounds resulting in £4 VAT plus £8 royal mail handling charge (that is a set amount).    Some sellers do not realize that the current exchange rate will cause that... at one time it was probably safe to put $20.   I remember when $20 was £10.   If you had ordered each item separately it would have been ok.


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> They probably put the value at $20 which would put it above the threshold in pounds resulting in £4 VAT plus £8 royal mail handling charge (that is a set amount).    Some sellers do not realize that the current exchange rate will cause that... at one time it was probably safe to put $20.   I remember when $20 was £10.   If you had ordered each item separately it would have been ok.



This time they quoted the $34. Oh well!

Yeah, hasn't the round nose-dived? Not good for us buying overseas...


----------



## BlacLord

jogawag said:


> The sound of Sennheiser MX475 focuses on treble. However, the sound of the Sennheiser MX375 which is brothers model is focused on bass as like Monk+.
> Since the sound of the MX375 is closer to the sound of Monk+ than the sound of MX475, I recommend MX375 as the upgrade of Monk+.
> 
> If you like MX500 housing which is same as Monk+, I recommend HE150 for the soundstage and bass.
> If you like PK housing which is small, I recommend SR2 16ohm TPE WIRE at Aliexpress for the soundstage and bass.



Thanks for the heads up! So there is a worthwhile difference between the Monk+ and MX375?

Also, the HE150 is a 150ohms bud right? Would they be suitable for iPhone? Thanks again.


----------



## Willber

BlacLord said:


> Thanks for the heads up! So there is a worthwhile difference between the Monk+ and MX375?
> 
> Also, the HE150 is a 150ohms bud right? Would they be suitable for iPhone? Thanks again.


I found a conservation we had a couple of years ago:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1065#post-13148150

What did you think of the Qian39?

To my mind there are now many budget buds that are 'better' than the Monk+. My personal favourite is the Snow Lotus 1.0:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FAA...445.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.360a4c4dctk165

I find they have the warmth and clarity of the Monk+ in the mids with better extension of bass and treble as well as a larger soundstage. But with something as subjective as earphones different people will give different advice.


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> 荣K68+
> K's (凯) Little Black Bell (LBB 小黑铃)
> MoonDrop VXC
> MoonDrop VXJ


Not sure if we need to keep asking (as I'm sure you will write impressions in due time) but what are your initial impressions on the K's LBB and Moondrop VX C/J?


----------



## jogawag (Dec 24, 2018)

BlacLord said:


> Thanks for the heads up! So there is a worthwhile difference between the Monk+ and MX375?
> 
> Also, the HE150 is a 150ohms bud right? Would they be suitable for iPhone? Thanks again.



Since the MX375 is sufficiently "clean and dynamic" sound compared to Monk+, it is key whether you feel the difference worth it for you.

Next, the HE150 with a slightly brighter wide sound stage can be used well on my Android Phone because the sound efficiency is good.

Edit:
As for my personal opinion, how about enjoying the difference of Sound by purchasing both HE150 and "DIY SR2 16ohm TPE WIRE" totaling less than $30?
Both are excellent Earbuds with very high cost performance!
If you try them you will be amazed at that wonderful sound.

ReEdit:
IMO HE150 sounds like bright TM9, and "DIY SR2 16ohm TPE WIRE" sounds like dark SWD2+.


----------



## exavolt

jogawag said:


> As for my personal opinion, how about enjoying the difference of Sound by purchasing both HE150 and "DIY SR2 16ohm TPE WIRE" totaling less than $30?


That's exactly a kind of suggestion to enter a rabbit hole. 

"These are good, now I wonder what other earbuds sound like."


----------



## BlacLord

Willber said:


> I found a conservation we had a couple of years ago:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1065#post-13148150
> 
> What did you think of the Qian39?
> ...



I ended up getting the Monks over the Qian39...


----------



## Willber

BlacLord said:


> I ended up getting the Monks over the Qian39...


IMO things have improved since both of them.


----------



## ClieOS (Dec 24, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Not sure if we need to keep asking (as I'm sure you will write impressions in due time) but what are your initial impressions on the K's LBB and Moondrop VX C/J?



LBB is just a great earbuds - it has the warmness that K is known for, but at the same time fairly well balanced. It was said to be an evolution from Poseidon and I do agree on that statement - besides the fact that it is not as grand sounding as Poseidon, I actually do prefer LBB overall. Given the price/performance ratio, I think there is no reason to miss this one.

VXC is said to be tuned similarly to the old VX (which most of you probably never heard of) - it is actually not entirely true as VXC is definitely a lot better sounding. The old VX is very warm and kinda slow, an decent sounding earbud overall but nothing particularly great to speak of. VXC kind of have a warmish sound as well but sounded much more dynamic and lively. However, it is still quire different a tuning from the previous model VXP (which is very neutral and detailed). Overall, VXC is still a good earbud but I won't say it is an improvement over VXP but more of the change of sound signature. I often recommend to people the VXP is good for instruments and classical music, where VXC is probably more for mainstream music. VXJ on the other hand is more or less a warmer version of VXC. It is only available from a single MoonDrop authorized dealer on Taobao as kinda a special edition but I don't think you will need VXJ when there is VXC around.


----------



## seanc6441

Thank you @ClieOS 

Good thing I have ordered Ks LBB then!


----------



## exavolt

ClieOS said:


> However, it is still quire different a tuning from the previous model VXP (which is very neutral and detailed).


VXP = VX Pro?


----------



## ClieOS

exavolt said:


> VXP = VX Pro?



Correct. VXP has been discontinued a few weeks ago btw.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Hello everyone and Merry (belated) Christmas! Been awhile since I've last commented on this thread. My never ending pursuit for higher end audio pushed me towards IEMs, but I still listen to my Diomnes Lvl2 periodically after all this time.

I always found their greatest weakness was their stiff cable (+ oxidation), so I decided to splurge on a recable! Many thanks to *Triton* *Audio* for the recabling! The new cable is the *Effect* *Audio* *Eros* *II* - pure copper and silver hybrid. I saw these used for $180 ($100 off), so I went for it since it was only $30 more than a new Ares II. This ended up being a bigger upgrade then I planned lol. 


    

*Sound* *Impressions*: HUGE improvement over the ENTIRE spectrum. Most noticeable being that vocals have more presence. No more veil, but it came with a small sacrifice to its deep soundstage. It's less forgiving and more reference sounding as a result, but I find the upgrade in resolution worth it. Eros has more mid-bass hump than I was expecting, so drums are now fuller and sound more dynamic. Treble is effortlessly detailed and smooth. Really happy with this upgrade overall. 

Not to forget to mention, the cable is really flexible now!


----------



## iron2k

ctaxxxx said:


> Hello everyone and Merry (belated) Christmas! Been awhile since I've last commented on this thread. My never ending pursuit for higher end audio pushed me towards IEMs, but I still listen to my Diomnes Lvl2 periodically after all this time.
> 
> I always found their greatest weakness was their stiff cable (+ oxidation), so I decided to splurge on a recable! Many thanks to *Triton* *Audio* for the recabling! The new cable is the *Effect* *Audio* *Eros* *II* - pure copper and silver hybrid. I saw these used for $180 ($100 off), so I went for it since it was only $30 more than a new Ares II. This ended up being a bigger upgrade then I planned lol.
> 
> ...


*Triton Audio* @alpha421 always with great work, higly recommended.


----------



## Makahl

Apparently, this is the new earbud from Moondrop. Looking forward to seeing impressions about it and their new IEM Amadeus. Price going to be about $350-450 if I understood it correctly.


----------



## FastAndClean

Tesla LCP driver in a earbud


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 27, 2018)

FastAndClean said:


> Tesla LCP driver in a earbud


What kind of matieral is LCP?

I'm excited to hear about earbuds with more premium drivers. I can hear a difference between Black Ling driver with it's stronger magnets than your average earbud driver. Better transients, sounds quick and well controlled. I thought it was just my perception of the frequency response at first, but honestly it's extremely detailed and quick even compared to my Rose Mojito without being exaggerated in treble to give the illusion of extra detail.

So I'd love to hear alternative drivers to generic plastic and standard magnet. Wanna hear some biocelluose and beryllium drivers in earbuds


----------



## ctaxxxx

seanc6441 said:


> What kind of matieral is LCP?
> 
> I'm excited to hear about earbuds with more premium drivers. I can hear a difference between Black Ling driver with it's stronger magnets than your average earbud driver. Better transients, sounds quick and well controlled.
> 
> So I'd love to hear alternative drivers to generic plastic and standard magnet. Wanna hear some biocelluose and beryllium drivers in earbuds



Same here. I wonder how these differ from their recent Kanas IEM that uses a DLC driver. Wonder why they went a different route with the earbuds.


----------



## FastAndClean

seanc6441 said:


> What kind of matieral is LCP?


liquid crystal polymer, like the one in the Sony EX1000


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 27, 2018)

ctaxxxx said:


> Same here. I wonder how these differ from their recent Kanas IEM that uses a DLC driver. Wonder why they went a different route with the earbuds.


I think the natural course now is to improve the development with better matieral and acoustics of the shell. Now that the earbud market is slowly becoming more relevant again.

If you think of it logically there's huge benefits to experimenting with premium matierial if the market can support it with sales. As earbud drivers so small compared to headphones that the amount of these luxury matierial will be considerably less. Yet the retail price difference is not a huge gap (considering that high end IEM and headphones are roughly in the same ball park price wise).

Going forward i hope to see companies list detailed specs of the driver matierial, magnet strenght, driver size etc. I see ks and moondrop list specs sometimes but its not detailed enough. At this end of the market consumers should know exactly what they are getting with their purchase.


----------



## mbwilson111

...meanwhile I am listening to my new buds... hot off the soldering iron... the HungryPanda DIY PK1 150 ohm.  Sounds great!


----------



## DBaldock9

mbwilson111 said:


> ...meanwhile I am listening to my new buds... hot off the soldering iron... the HungryPanda DIY PK1 150 ohm.  Sounds great!



Did he use some of the original Red 150Ω PK drivers, that are available from a couple of AliExpress vendors?


----------



## HungryPanda (Dec 27, 2018)

I bought these  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ori...arhook-earphones-disassemble/32376534125.html


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm waiting on some carbon and some titanium drivers to turn up


----------



## DBaldock9 (Dec 27, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> I bought these https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ori...arhook-earphones-disassemble/32376534125.html



Ah, those are a better price than the set of red PK1 drivers I bought (but haven't used, yet) - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/pk1-speaker-150ohms-red-film/32307011109.html


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> I'm waiting on some carbon and some titanium drivers to turn up


From aliexpress or otherwise? I'm always weary of drivers on aliexpress as sometimes the advertised specs don't match the product received.


----------



## Willber

HungryPanda said:


> I bought these  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Acc...iy-fever-earphones-l-horn-150/1666800924.html


I didn't know that 15.4mm drivers would fit in the PK shell.


----------



## HungryPanda

I linked the wrong one I will update my post


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

fairx said:


> It's been on my cart for some time. How do you like it to Dp100?


I'm still struggling
Very different, even opposite, DP100 having smaller soundstage and being more fowards and bright (without sibilance) but having a better resolution and (intimate) layering. Anyway, MX985 are a first sight love story that became a hot passionate one..just can't stop using them. Soundstage is bigger deeper and vocal are more present and natural, it have more bass too and even if there not as much details, instrument separation feel more realist, PK DP100 can have more texture but can act strangely with high, like hit cymbal have sometime hardcore brillance. I Adore both, but the MX985 are better all arounder even if fit and construction aren't as impressive as DP100.

Both, as 99% earbuds, open up and sound better with right amping, none of my DAP can do real justice to them.

I'm surprise that the 985 aren't hyped really.


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Dec 28, 2018)

Well from the 11.11 sale I ordered a bunch of stuff, around 7 packages, only received 2, got refunded on 2, the others seem to be lost and one seller decided to keep the cash, so now I got back around $100 bucks and was wondering how you guys like the toneking to600 and how does it go up against the ty hi-z hp650? Those are the 2 buds I have set my sights on, I have the samsara's and I am loving them, listen to all music except pop music, disco and country. Any other good high impedance suggestions are welcome but I will only order from penon so it must be in there inventory, so anything from k's is not an option


----------



## HungryPanda

I Love the Toneking TO600, such a great mature sound, I only have the TY Hi-Z 320 and as great as they are the TO600 is far superior


----------



## Willber

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Anyway, MX985 are a first sight love story that became a hot passionate one..just can't stop using them.


Are they the Sennheiser MX985?


----------



## chaiyuta

Merry Christmas everyone. Hope you enjoy your own earbuds~


----------



## 40760 (Dec 28, 2018)

Caught news that the VE ZOE will be discontinued starting next year, so those who're looking to own a pair have a few more days to do so...


----------



## Eternalmetal (Dec 28, 2018)

edit: please delete this post, sorry.


----------



## gazzington

Btw wild Lee has said he is going to stop selling ZOEs after December. These are really good btw


----------



## ZoneX23

Hey all!

Does anyone know if the Willsound MK2 VJC is identical to the MK2 rev. 2? I lost my MK2 rev 2 a few months back and was heartbroken over it... these were my favorite buds ever, and am looking to replace them now. If anyone has any thoughts on this or other earbuds with a similar sound signature and price range, it'd be much appreciated


----------



## rahmish

ZoneX23 said:


> Hey all!
> 
> Does anyone know if the Willsound MK2 VJC is identical to the MK2 rev. 2? I lost my MK2 rev 2 a few months back and was heartbroken over it... these were my favorite buds ever, and am looking to replace them now. If anyone has any thoughts on this or other earbuds with a similar sound signature and price range, it'd be much appreciated


It should be the same. I have Willsound Mk1 rev1 and Mk1 VJC and they almost the same, so you need to go for VJC!


----------



## DBaldock9

gazzington said:


> Btw wild Lee has said he is going to stop selling ZOEs after December. These are really good btw



Do you think the "Pure Blue Cable for Omega Edition" is worth the $60 additional cost (with the 50% Discount)?
How about the "Oyaide102ssc for Omega Edition" cable, for an additional $20?
Thanks for any insight!


----------



## gazzington

Sorry just noticed it's already been posted


DBaldock9 said:


> Do you think the "Pure Blue Cable for Omega Edition" is worth the $60 additional cost (with the 50% Discount)?
> How about the "Oyaide102ssc for Omega Edition" cable, for an additional $20?
> Thanks for any insight!


I got mine with the extra pure blue cable in 4.4. I can now use them with my dx200 with amp 8 and Sony wm1a.  I think the blue cable is worth it.


----------



## ZoneX23

rahmish said:


> It should be the same. I have Willsound Mk1 rev1 and Mk1 VJC and they almost the same, so you need to go for VJC!



I think the difficulty is that the Willsound MK1 rev 1 and rev 2 have differences, and MK2 rev 1 and rev 2 have differences. I guess I need to know if MK2 VJC is closer to MK2 rev 1 or rev 2. I hope that makes sense for anyone who can offer some insight!


----------



## j4100

DBaldock9 said:


> Do you think the "Pure Blue Cable for Omega Edition" is worth the $60 additional cost (with the 50% Discount)?
> How about the "Oyaide102ssc for Omega Edition" cable, for an additional $20?
> Thanks for any insight!



I'll be honest, I don't hear a huge difference between the two, but the Oyaide is stiff and microphonic. The blue cable is neither. It's beautifully soft. To be fair, I don't use my ZOE on the move, so the microphonics and stiff cable didn't really bother me. I'm just a sucker for a great looking cable  At least it also delivers.


----------



## DBaldock9

gazzington said:


> Sorry just noticed it's already been posted
> 
> I got mine with the extra pure blue cable in 4.4. I can now use them with my dx200 with amp 8 and Sony wm1a.  I think the blue cable is worth it.





j4100 said:


> I'll be honest, I don't hear a huge difference between the two, but the Oyaide is stiff and microphonic. The blue cable is neither. It's beautifully soft. To be fair, I don't use my ZOE on the move, so the microphonics and stiff cable didn't really bother me. I'm just a sucker for a great looking cable  At least it also delivers.



Thanks for both comments! 
I'm planning to order the standard 3.5mm TRS cable on the Zoe, and then get the blue cable with the 2.5mm TRRS.  Then I'll have a set of 4 cables with the 0.78 pins, that can be used on my Zoe earbuds (and Biggies & Smalls earphones).
.
3.5mm TRS
2.5mm TRRS Pure Blue
[_These two were ordered previously, to use with Biggies & Smalls_]
3.5mm TRRS (w/Mic & Android Remote)
2.5mm TRRS Espresso


----------



## gazzington

Remember I think you still get a free zen LL. They are decent buds in their own right.


----------



## rahmish

ZoneX23 said:


> I think the difficulty is that the Willsound MK1 rev 1 and rev 2 have differences, and MK2 rev 1 and rev 2 have differences. I guess I need to know if MK2 VJC is closer to MK2 rev 1 or rev 2. I hope that makes sense for anyone who can offer some insight!


You can ask Willy (Willsound) on a facebook or Adhi Rholupat


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Willber said:


> Are they the Sennheiser MX985?



Do you know if they are product in China?? If so, its possible its the very same driver....how would you describe the sound of original MX985??  
Like, MX500 as well as DP100 are perhaps OEM too...but I don't have the original to compare them unfortunately. Anyway, they sure don't sound like a sub 20$ earbuds....right now its my daily earbud and MX500 just take the dust because of them (i know its unfair!).


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 29, 2018)

Ordered the Ourart ACG's to try out. One of several MMCX earbuds I've had my eye on... which doesn't seem to go on sale (unless I missed something).

I've not seen too many impressions/reviews on them. Hopefully they're way better than the PT25's I have and take to EQ for the lack of bass/sub-bass if necessary.


----------



## exavolt (Dec 29, 2018)

assassin10000 said:


> Ordered the Ourart ACG's to try out. One of several MMCX earbuds I've had my eye on... which doesn't seem to go on sale (unless I missed something).


I am gonna order one too. From my observation, Penon is usually not participating in AE sales.

I am also interested in BK2, but it lacks decent reviews.


----------



## ClintonL

Hi guys, i own willsound mk2s and shozy bk's. Is there anything around $200 i can get which will be a decent upgrade on the bk's?

Cheers


----------



## snip3r77

exavolt said:


> I am gonna order one too. From my observation, Penon is usually not participating in AE sales.
> 
> I am also interested in BK2, but it lacks decent reviews.


For myself , I’d buy only when there is a discount . Vote with your money


----------



## DBaldock9

The modded Vido (Master Wong Kuan Wae Deluxe Version) earbuds, that he chose to send to me, have arrived.  They really do sound good, and he used a nice soft cable to re-wire them.
.


----------



## mbwilson111

DBaldock9 said:


> The modded Vido (Master Wong Kuan Wae Deluxe Version) earbuds, that he chose to send to me, have arrived. They really do sound good, and he used a nice soft cable to re-wire them.



Those look beautiful.


----------



## FastAndClean (Dec 29, 2018)

second more in dept impressions of the OURART ACG - no sub bass(you will get tight and punchy mid and upper bass), the kick drums have no meat to them, incredibly fast, very high level of details(it can pick up the smallest nuances in the recordings), wide open soundstage, imaging with surgical precision, very transparent mids with a touch of sweetness, very good treble but a little bit rough sounding if the recording is not well mastered
i got them to be used on a desktop instead of full size open headphone for comfort reasons, overall they are excellent when i don't need isolation


----------



## snip3r77

DBaldock9 said:


> The modded Vido (Master Wong Kuan Wae Deluxe Version) earbuds, that he chose to send to me, have arrived.  They really do sound good, and he used a nice soft cable to re-wire them.
> .



I hope it doesn't cost a bomb?


----------



## Ymer Niros

FastAndClean said:


> second more in dept impressions of the OURART ACG - no sub bass(you will get tight and punchy mid and upper bass), the kick drums have no meat to them, incredibly fast, very high level of details(it can pick up the smallest nuances in the recordings), wide open soundstage, imaging with surgical precision, very transparent mids with a touch of sweetness, very good treble but a little bit rough sounding if the recording is not well mastered
> i got them to be used on a desktop instead of full size open headphone for comfort reasons, overall they are excellent when i don't need isolation





I have them and I find them excellent


----------



## davjac84 (Dec 30, 2018)

Ymer Niros said:


> I have them and I find them excellent


Me too, can't decide if I like these or my TO400s more Both are awesome.
I can recommend the included cable, it's great. It has a 3-button android compatible remote/mic.


----------



## PeterMac (Dec 30, 2018)

Any replacment in SQ to Sennheiser MX985 ?

I'm using now MX 475 they are super clean and very detail very similar to MX 985 but they little lack of bass, MX 985 was better in bass as I remember, but there is no way to buy them again  damn Sennheiser.

Maybe some petition to Sennheiser to start produce MX 985 again ?


----------



## FastAndClean

davjac84 said:


> Me too





Ymer Niros said:


> I have them and I find them excellent


i love these things, i was listening my iem s lately but decided to put some hours on them yesterday and today and they are just brilliant, very wide and clear sounding, fast too


----------



## buddies

Hey I hope this is the correct place to ask.

Can someone who is knowledgeable PLEASE recommend me a new earbud.

For reference, i've used the EMX500 and i love the size the fit the everything of them and the sound is alright but I feel they could be better.  My characterization of what i feel they are missing is richness or a little deeper sound. Depth? Something along those lines.

If english is not your common language this translation probably makes no sense lol.

I have a price of 100 USD$
I can EASILY use ebay and amazon USA.
Aliexpress/ is harder for me and i'd much prefer ebay/amazon links to buy from! THANK YOU SO MUCH.

tl;dr EMX500 but deeper/richer but the rest of the emx500 or the sound signature is fine! THANKS


----------



## LazerBear

PeterMac said:


> Any replacment in SQ to Sennheiser MX985 ?
> 
> I'm using now MX 475 they are super clean and very detail very similar to MX 985 but they little lack of bass, MX 985 was better in bass as I remember, but there is no way to buy them again  damn Sennheiser.
> 
> Maybe some petition to Sennheiser to start produce MX 985 again ?




I would say your best bet would be to try and get a request up on Massdrop.. with a bunch of luck they might get Sennheiser to release a Massdrop version. If you do so, let us know: I would gladly add myself to the request.


----------



## buddies

LazerBear said:


> I would say your best bet would be to try and get a request up on Massdrop.. with a bunch of luck they might get Sennheiser to release a Massdrop version. If you do so, let us know: I would gladly add myself to the request.


rip . msg me if u know where else i can msg people for other earbud recommendations! THNX<3


----------



## silverfishla

The new one from the Lucky bag from “that” store is pretty good.  Sounds like a better version of the Tonking TY2.  A nice poopmfy energy and good in the bass mids and treble.


----------



## buddies

silverfishla said:


> The new one from the Lucky bag from “that” store is pretty good.  Sounds like a better version of the Tonking TY2.  A nice poopmfy energy and good in the bass mids and treble.


can you give me link or the actual name? i'm not knowledgeable about all of the new earbuds. Just want something thats the same as the emx500 but better for less than 100! TYTYTY


----------



## DBaldock9

I'll admit that I haven't heard the EMX500, but I do have, and really like, the Svara-L (32Ω), which are currently $64.80 on AliExpress.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...or-Earbud-Earphone-With-MMCX/32810127070.html
For my ears, I get the best seal / fit / sound using a donut foam over a full foam.

Searched both Amazon and eBay, and neither one has any vendors selling the Svara-L Earbuds.


----------



## buddies

DBaldock9 said:


> I'll admit that I haven't heard the EMX500, but I do have, and really like, the Svara-L (32Ω), which are currently $64.80 on AliExpress.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...or-Earbud-Earphone-With-MMCX/32810127070.html
> For my ears, I get the best seal / fit / sound using a donut foam over a full foam.
> 
> Searched both Amazon and eBay, and neither one has any vendors selling the Svara-L Earbuds.


I was also recommended those i believe by another online guy.  
Do you know of anywhere I can post to get money through to aliexpress? my situation is i have a like refillable credit card called AMEX SERVE. it's only allowed in the USA so i can buy in aliexpress where it goes to hongkong/china.  I'm sure now some website should allow me to do what im asking. ( use my USA card to get a card i can use overseas aka china aka aliexpress aka svara L) THANKS


----------



## DBaldock9

buddies said:


> I was also recommended those i believe by another online guy.
> Do you know of anywhere I can post to get money through to aliexpress? my situation is i have a like refillable credit card called AMEX SERVE. it's only allowed in the USA so i can buy in aliexpress where it goes to hongkong/china.  I'm sure now some website should allow me to do what im asking. ( use my USA card to get a card i can use overseas aka china aka aliexpress aka svara L) THANKS



It looks like that AliExpress shop has got 16 different payment methods listed (some appear to be country specific) - so you might try clicking on _Contact Seller > Contact Now_ to see if they can help.  I'm sure they'll do what they can, to get your money.


----------



## buddies

DBaldock9 said:


> It looks like that AliExpress shop has got 16 different payment methods listed (some appear to be country specific) - so you might try clicking on _Contact Seller > Contact Now_ to see if they can help.  I'm sure they'll do what they can, to get your money.


lol ill try to msg them, the problem is my credit card will go to hong kong or china, wherver they are located and then it gets blocked. only works in usa.  Maybe ill ask them to post it to ebay? I can buy ebay giftcards with my card. what about earbuds? u know anyothers then the svara l? just something better than the emx500


----------



## DBaldock9

buddies said:


> lol ill try to msg them, the problem is my credit card will go to hong kong or china, wherver they are located and then it gets blocked. only works in usa.  Maybe ill ask them to post it to ebay? I can buy ebay giftcards with my card. what about earbuds? u know anyothers then the svara l? just something better than the emx500



I think one of the options is direct bank transfer, but I don't see PayPal listed.


----------



## buddies

DBaldock9 said:


> I think one of the options is direct bank transfer, but I don't see PayPal listed.


all i have is a amex refilliable credit card, can be used in USA only.  I will prob msg the shop on aliexpress to post on ebay for me.  I am kid so no bank also.  Do you have any other place for me to figure out earbud options? svara L is the only one ive been told so far on this page now its all about the process of buying it lol.  anyone i can dm? THANKS <# <3 <3


----------



## rkw

buddies said:


> Do you know of anywhere I can post to get money through to aliexpress? my situation is i have a like refillable credit card called AMEX SERVE. it's only allowed in the USA so i can buy in aliexpress where it goes to hongkong/china.  I'm sure now some website should allow me to do what im asking. ( use my USA card to get a card i can use overseas aka china aka aliexpress aka svara L) THANKS


I see that AliExpress accepts Western Union payment. You should be able to use that.


----------



## buddies

rkw said:


> I see that AliExpress accepts Western Union payment. You should be able to use that.


hm. possibly will work with my card. seems promising


----------



## Willber

buddies said:


> lol ill try to msg them, the problem is my credit card will go to hong kong or china, wherver they are located and then it gets blocked. only works in usa.  Maybe ill ask them to post it to ebay? I can buy ebay giftcards with my card. what about earbuds? u know anyothers then the svara l? just something better than the emx500


If you are limited to US outlets then I would suggest trying the Sony E808+ from here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-MDR-E808-Headphones-Stereo-Earphones-/283300542153

I have had them for years but here is my recent summary of them:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/absolute-best-budget-earbuds.812853/page-166#post-14586555

Still one of my favourites above many others costing much more.


----------



## buddies

rkw said:


> I see that AliExpress accepts Western Union payment. You should be able to use that.





Willber said:


> If you are limited to US outlets then I would suggest trying the Sony E808+ from here:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-MDR-E808-Headphones-Stereo-Earphones-/283300542153
> 
> I have had them for years but here is my recent summary of them:
> ...


you think it'll be any better than the emx500? 5 dollars for the earbuds? o.o


----------



## mbwilson111

buddies said:


> you think it'll be any better than the emx500? 5 dollars for the earbuds? o.o



Price never tells the whole story  I have the 808+ and it is excellent.  However, I had to put a new cable on mine because I am unable to wear the J style cable that it comes with.  Luckily for me, my husband is able to recable earbuds.


----------



## Willber

buddies said:


> you think it'll be any better than the emx500? 5 dollars for the earbuds? o.o


I don't have the EMX500 but I do have the EMX500S. I prefer the E808+.

Search on here for "Vido" and see what people think of $2 earbuds!


----------



## Azmkml

Is there difference between snowlotus 2.0 white and gray ?


----------



## tvou88 (Dec 30, 2018)

Azmkml said:


> Is there difference between snowlotus 2.0 white and gray ?


No difference, but I don't like them. Upper mids and lower treble are to much boosted. Bass is lacking in depth, but they have nice kick. Snow Lotus Rosemary are best Faaeal earbuds in my opinion.


----------



## exavolt

Azmkml said:


> Is there difference between snowlotus 2.0 white and gray ?


The white ones have UE cable.


----------



## Carrow

Anyone got a good link for a pair of Docomo buds?

Also has anyone here done business with Tuneout Audio before?

(these questions aren't related) thanks


----------



## theresanarc

Willber said:


> If you are limited to US outlets then I would suggest trying the Sony E808+ from here:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-MDR-E808-Headphones-Stereo-Earphones-/283300542153



Do you know how big the shell on those is? Is it the same size as these ones? https://www.amazon.com/Sony-MDRE9LP...8&qid=1546233552&sr=8-6&keywords=sony+earbuds

They look similar, though the one I linked above from Amazon is absolutely terrible. Sound like dollar store earbuds, compared to Chi-Fi earbuds anyways which is a shame because they fit great with their small size.


----------



## waynes world

buddies said:


> I was also recommended those i believe by another online guy.
> Do you know of anywhere I can post to get money through to aliexpress? my situation is i have a like refillable credit card called AMEX SERVE. it's only allowed in the USA so i can buy in aliexpress where it goes to hongkong/china.  I'm sure now some website should allow me to do what im asking. ( use my USA card to get a card i can use overseas aka china aka aliexpress aka svara L) THANKS



I'm with DBaldock9 - love the Svara L's!

Another bud that I've been really enjoying are the Sabia Experimental V6's for about $20. Very good and fun sounding bud.


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 31, 2018)

exavolt said:


> I am gonna order one too. From my observation, Penon is usually not participating in AE sales.





snip3r77 said:


> For myself , I’d buy only when there is a discount . Vote with your money



They are sold on Ebay as well. Every now and then ebay does a 10-15% discount, maybe wait for that to come up and order them?




FastAndClean said:


> second more in dept impressions of the OURART ACG - no sub bass(you will get tight and punchy mid and upper bass), the kick drums have no meat to them, incredibly fast, very high level of details(it can pick up the smallest nuances in the recordings), wide open soundstage, imaging with surgical precision, very transparent mids with a touch of sweetness, very good treble but a little bit rough sounding if the recording is not well mastered
> i got them to be used on a desktop instead of full size open headphone for comfort reasons, overall they are excellent when i don't need isolation



Is the lack of subbass because of the driver itself or that they don't seal? If you cover or press them into your ear does the subbass/bass become more present?

I experienced that with the pt25's. Little to no subbass unless perfectly positioned. Until I put foams on them.






All these positive impressions/responses are making me want them here already.


----------



## exavolt

assassin10000 said:


> They are sold on Ebay as well. Every now and then ebay does a 10-15% discount, maybe wait for that to come up and order them?


Already placed my order through AE. Although it seems that some impressions above are quite positive to me -- I don't mind if it's lacking in sub-bass; mids, and treble to some extent, are more important to me -- I don't have high expectation on them; if it's good, it'll be my for-office buds.


----------



## tvou88

exavolt said:


> The white ones have UE cable.


Good point. Maybe I should recabling them and then they will sound right... I'll try.


----------



## PeterMac

LazerBear said:


> I would say your best bet would be to try and get a request up on Massdrop.. with a bunch of luck they might get Sennheiser to release a Massdrop version. If you do so, let us know: I would gladly add myself to the request.


Thanks, I voted for them, what more I can do  ?

Please people vote also for Sennheiser MX 985 on Massdrop
https://www.massdrop.com/vote/Discontinued-IEM-that-we-used-to-dream-of


----------



## purplesun (Dec 31, 2018)

theresanarc said:


> Do you know how big the shell on those is? Is it the same size as these ones? https://www.amazon.com/Sony-MDRE9LP...8&qid=1546233552&sr=8-6&keywords=sony+earbuds
> They look similar, though the one I linked above from Amazon is absolutely terrible. Sound like dollar store earbuds, compared to Chi-Fi earbuds anyways which is a shame because they fit great with their small size.



IIRC,there were several versions of E808+ that sounded really bad and no amount of burn-in would remedy it. Even "good" E808+ were non-licensed Sony fakes and required a day of so of burn-in to sweeten the sound. When I used to buy E808+, I would buy half-dozens from different taobao vendors. When I find the one that works, I would then buy a few more from that vendors quite soon after. The "good" ones had effortless low bass, recessed mids and non-fatiguing highs (that rolls off quite early in the FR teens). Fun earbuds, when paired with decent DAPs; had a few unsuspecting friends spewed expletives (in a good way) when they first tried them on 

EDIT: Only read your link after posting. No, those should be original Sony earbuds. E808+ are not made by Sony. IIRC, E808+ was cobbled together by some chinese manufacturer/s and sold as Sony earbuds, that was over 10 years ago. IMO, I think the really good sounding Sony earbud ended with the 888LPs.


----------



## davjac84

assassin10000 said:


> They are sold on Ebay as well. Every now and then ebay does a 10-15% discount, maybe wait for that to come up and order them?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I use ourart ACG with HiGi full foams, with them I get really good fit, with thinner foams they sit loosely. IMO these buds have almost the right amount of bass, I don't think they are bass light. But I feel the same about TO400s and other people seem to find them a bit light on bass, so have that in mind.
Both these buds have a really good fit in my ears with right type of foam, thinner for toneking because of bigger diameter. 

I find ACG EQ friendly, its possible to attenuate the bass region quite a bit.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Dec 31, 2018)

Spoiler: My Last Post Concerning PureSounds PS100-600S Ear Buds



Just received a pair of _*PureSounds PS100-600S 600Ω ear buds ("Pop" Tuned Edition*; *2.5mm balanced plug*; *600-core copper cable)*_ from [B]@chaiyuta[/B]

I really like the feel of the cable; initial listening session commences!













Ear Buds connected to "*Steampunk*"
The 2.5mm balanced to 3.5mm adapter is my now third *FiiO L26*... these lil' boogers sure do have legs!






After a few weeks I am finding my newest acquisition (*PureSounds PS100-600S*) to be quite delightful. For long-listening sessions they are proving themselves to be extremely non-fatiguing and pleasant to the ears... more so than, dare I say my Blurs. I have leaned toward black colored foams over red ones.


----------



## Willber

theresanarc said:


> Do you know how big the shell on those is? Is it the same size as these ones? https://www.amazon.com/Sony-MDRE9LP...8&qid=1546233552&sr=8-6&keywords=sony+earbuds


The E808+ are a little smaller than the MX500 shell (Monk+, Vido etc) and the asymmetric shape makes them most comfortable buds I own.


----------



## purplesun

Hi, back sniffing around Headfi again, after a 2 year break. Any newish-released earbuds (about past year or so) with smaller shells that I should look at? I think I already have most of the smaller Qians, E808+ & SHE3800. Sadly, I can't fit MX500 shells, which cancels out 98% of the earbud market. Although, truth be told, the earbud postings look quite similar to when I left; E808+, Monks, Qians, Vido etc. Maybe I should have stayed away longer!


----------



## Willber

purplesun said:


> IIRC,there were several versions of E808+ that sounded really bad and no amount of burn-in would remedy it. Even "good" E808+ were non-licensed Sony fakes and required a day of so of burn-in to sweeten the sound. When I used to buy E808+, I would buy half-dozens from different taobao vendors. When I find the one that works, I would then buy a few more from that vendors quite soon after. The "good" ones had effortless low bass, recessed mids and non-fatiguing highs (that rolls off quite early in the FR teens). Fun earbuds, when paired with decent DAPs; had a few unsuspecting friends spewed expletives (in a good way) when they first tried them on
> 
> EDIT: Only read your link after posting. No, those should be original Sony earbuds. E808+ are not made by Sony. IIRC, E808+ was cobbled together by some chinese manufacturer/s and sold as Sony earbuds, that was over 10 years ago. IMO, I think the really good sounding Sony earbud ended with the 888LPs.


10 years? I didn't realise the E808+ had been around so long. I did a search on here and most of the discussions on them were around two years ago (you feature often! ... as do I and vapman - what happened to him?). The consensus then was that they were better than the E808 but getting a reliable pair could be a challenge. I think you had a preferred supplier? My three pairs (one from AE, two from Ebay) were all fine after a few days of use. The ones I linked to seem to be genuine from the pictures, but at $5 there's not a lot to lose.


----------



## purplesun

It's 2-year-old memories, but I vaguely remembered reading about them on a vietnamese forum (translated) few year ago then, and the earliest mentioned in headfi was some time before me.

I thought vapman did a runner after selling some stuff here. He was OK with me. @vapman, if you are reading this, I am sorry if I got the story wrong; I have been away till now.

I don't have a preferred supplier as I don't think they really knew what they have (good or bad). Only reliable way was to pre-sample their batches to get good ones. It's $2 a piece, so not exactly expensive to test them. There were visual clues to to narrow down the lottery, but was it's never a sure thing (check my old posts, I wrote about what to look out for). I only bought from taobao, so not sure about how this applies to other suppliers. It's pretty much the only earbuds use now. as I can't fit MX500-shelled earbuds in my ear.

Is the russian earbud oligarch still around? Golov?. He's got the best rare stuff!


----------



## FastAndClean

assassin10000 said:


> Is the lack of subbass because of the driver itself or that they don't seal? If you cover or press them into your ear does the subbass/bass become more present?


they have no sub bass, no matter the position, they can hit at around 80-90hz but low energy there and that's it


----------



## golov17

HNY to all earbuds lovers!


----------



## ShabtabQ

Happy new year...


----------



## buddies

Hey guys so far ive been recommended the Svara L the most, anyone else have other recommendations preferably on ebay? Looking for EMX500 style sound but better, SUB 100 price.  The Svara L are right at 100 so cheaper may persuade me! THANKS


----------



## Blueshound24 (Dec 31, 2018)

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet but the SD2+ is offered at Massdrop again for $199. I missed it last time but plan to get it this time around. Still considered worth getting, somewhat TOTL? I am not a bass head and like balanced dynamic sound signature. From what I have read it may fit that signature. My fav full size cans are the Elear and Denon dk7000 if that helps. And I really like the small Yuin size buds! So there's that.


----------



## buddies

Blueshound24 said:


> Not sure if it's been mentioned yet but the SD2+ is offered at Massdrop again for $199. I missed it last time but plan to get it this time around. Still considered worth getting, somewhat TOTL?


my budget is 100 lol.


----------



## Blueshound24

buddies said:


> my budget is 100 lol.



Hey, it's a good deal! It's normal price is $320!


----------



## Willber

buddies said:


> Hey guys so far ive been recommended the Svara L the most, anyone else have other recommendations preferably on ebay? Looking for EMX500 style sound but better, SUB 100 price.  The Svara L are right at 100 so cheaper may persuade me! THANKS


As I suggested earlier, and others have endorsed, try the E808+ from ebay. If you don't like them you have only lost $5, and you can investigate others while you are waiting for them to be delivered.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> As I suggested earlier, and others have endorsed, try the E808+ from ebay. If you don't like them you have only lost $5, and you can investigate others while you are waiting for them to be delivered.



What about the cable though?  I would not have gotten them if re-cabling had not been an option.

E808+


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> What about the cable though?  I would not have gotten them if re-cabling had not been an option.
> 
> E808+


I don't mind J cables, I have others with them as well. Although your picture does look nice.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> I don't mind J cables, I have others with them as well. Although your picture does look nice.



I didn't do it for looks.. I did it for my own usability.  How exactly would I put the part around the back of my head... under my long hair where it would get all tangled into the hair?  On top of my hair looking horrible?  Neither works for me  If J cables were the only option I would just stick with headphones!


----------



## buddies (Dec 31, 2018)

Willber said:


> As I suggested earlier, and others have endorsed, try the E808+ from ebay. If you don't like them you have only lost $5, and you can investigate others while you are waiting for them to be delivered.


i just bought them, i found a seller who sold for 8$ but was in usa so i get them like a month earlier.  


EDIT: They are not the + model just 808. rip im gonna let them come tho, only 8$.


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> I didn't do it for looks.. I did it for my own usability.  How exactly would I put the part around the back of my head... under my long hair where it would get all tangled into the hair?  On top of my hair looking horrible?  Neither works for me


I usually wear the cable in the front.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> I usually wear the cable in the front.



That is what I did do before re-cabling it.  Drove me crazy.  I like things to be symmetrical  Kind of an OCD thing maybe.


----------



## mbwilson111

buddies said:


> i just bought them, i found a seller who sold for 8$ but was in usa so i get them like a month earlier.
> 
> 
> EDIT: They are not the + model just 808. rip im gonna let them come tho, only 8$.



I did not think there were very many listings for the + model.  I think the one I used was the only one.  I wonder why there are still so many listings for the regular 808... and I wonder what the difference is.


----------



## seanc6441

FastAndClean said:


> second more in dept impressions of the OURART ACG - no sub bass(you will get tight and punchy mid and upper bass), the kick drums have no meat to them, incredibly fast, very high level of details(it can pick up the smallest nuances in the recordings), wide open soundstage, imaging with surgical precision, very transparent mids with a touch of sweetness, very good treble but a little bit rough sounding if the recording is not well mastered
> i got them to be used on a desktop instead of full size open headphone for comfort reasons, overall they are excellent when i don't need isolation



I only have the original but I can say the imaging was just incredibly natural. No exaggerated width or compressed feeling. Perfect placement of mids, and the highs seem to be improved on the ACG so I badly wanna hear this one. But no sub bass is an automatic no buy from me.

Ourart need to use this driver in a dual dynamic setup with a dedicated bass driver. I'd snap it up in a heartbeat they could double the retail price for all I care.


----------



## buddies

mbwilson111 said:


> I did not think there were very many listings for the + model.  I think the one I used was the only one.  I wonder why there are still so many listings for the regular 808... and I wonder what the difference is.


Well i got the 808 NO +, also bought " FAAEAL Datura-X Metal " on amazon, some other headfi guy told me it was good. so those two comming in. ill see how i like them. thanks wilson hope the non + is still ok.


----------



## mbwilson111

The Datura is great.  I love all my FAAEAL buds.

You can tell us about the regular E808 when it arrives.


----------



## buddies

mbwilson111 said:


> The Datura is great.  I love all my FAAEAL buds.


THANK U PAL WILSON, the datura comes in this thursday, and the 808 is like 1 week. pls dm me if u find anything else for like 50 on ebay now THNX. <3


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 31, 2018)

Blueshound24 said:


> Hey, it's a good deal! It's normal price is $320!


Debateable. Not sure if any 'standard' dynamic driver in plastic pk shell is worth that amount. Even if the tuning is god like!

At $199 it's a consideration, but $320 is completely ridiculous IMO.

And I'm saying this from a position of bias towards earbuds (owning a few $200+ pairs) they are rarely worth the price. We over pay because its niche and we are a little crazy lol


----------



## DBaldock9

buddies said:


> THANK U PAL WILSON, the datura comes in this thursday, and the 808 is like 1 week. pls dm me if u find anything else for like 50 on ebay now THNX. <3



@mbwilson111  and her husband @HungryPanda  have a large collection of earbuds/earphones - so their recommendations are based on personal experience.


----------



## seanc6441

On another note I made the switch from spotify premium 320kbps to flac 16/24bit files after downloading all my favourite albums over the last few days.

I'll still use spotify for new music, and UAPP app on android for the lossless files.

The difference for me is more than subtle on some tracks, to just a slight improvement on others. I think the masters are better in some cases.

I've noticed a better sense of space and accuracy in soundstage/imaging of the better masters. Also the sound is less harsh and bright. Fuller and smoother but retaining all or more detail.

Needless to say I'm very happy to make the switch and now I can use a parametric EQ if I desire.

FYI all these files came from Tidal so some are 24 bit MQA while others are 16 bit flac. All sound excellent (haven't noticed a huge difference with MQA on or off but the 24bit files are nice.


----------



## buddies

DBaldock9 said:


> @mbwilson111  and her husband @HungryPanda  have a large collection of earbuds/earphones - so their recommendations are based on personal experience.


gg i didnt know, just came on this website after trying to use reddit and got nowhere lol. this website is so confusing but people respond fast af


----------



## mbwilson111

DBaldock9 said:


> @mbwilson111  and her husband @HungryPanda  have a large collection of earbuds/earphones - so their recommendations are based on personal experience.



All recommendations should be based on personal experience.  I believe that is actually stated somewhere in the posting guidelines of this forum... which we are all told to read when we first join  It is harder to find now though and it is very long.


----------



## seanc6441

buddies said:


> gg i didnt know, just came on this website after trying to use reddit and got nowhere lol. this website is so confusing but people respond fast af


Reddit r/headphones is hopeless for earbuds. It's literally only me and 1-2 others who occasionally help people out there. Much more knowledge in here and quick responses.


----------



## buddies

seanc6441 said:


> Reddit r/headphones is hopeless for earbuds. It's literally only me and 1-2 others who occasionally help people out there. Much more knowledge in here and quick responses.


o crap seanc it's u, its me buddiez LOLOL.  I returned those tin t2's because in ears are no bueno for me.


----------



## buddies

seanc6441 said:


> Reddit r/headphones is hopeless for earbuds. It's literally only me and 1-2 others who occasionally help people out there. Much more knowledge in here and quick responses.


im the guy who was spamming u for earbuds,


----------



## seanc6441

buddies said:


> o **** seanc it's u, its me buddiez LOLOL.  I returned those tin t2's because in ears are no bueno for me.


Oh hey haha

I'm the same IEMs are not a friend to my ears. Hope you find the right earbuds then.

It's unfortunate if you still cannot order from aliexpress. I just bought the new K's LBB released recently ($30) and I think it ticks a lot of your boxes for aesthetics (all black design, metal shell and nice compact fit) but I'll have to wait to hear it first.

It SHOULD be a good upgrade to what you have at the moment but I'll know when i hear it.


----------



## Willber

buddies said:


> i just bought them, i found a seller who sold for 8$ but was in usa so i get them like a month earlier.
> 
> 
> EDIT: They are not the + model just 808. rip im gonna let them come tho, only 8$.


The chat from a couple of years ago on here suggested that the E808 was not as good as the E808+. I would order the ebay ones as well if I were you, waiting is part of the game!


----------



## buddies

Willber said:


> The chat from a couple of years ago on here suggested that the E808 was not as good as the E808+. I would order the ebay ones as well if I were you, waiting is part of the game!


dang, i'll see what i think. i ended up buying some other ones on amazon which 2 people on here told me are good. if im not a fan ill buy the 808+ that take 3 years to ship. Rip that they arent the the same quality.  i thought maybe just rebranding for other regions.


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> That is what I did do before re-cabling it.  Drove me crazy.  I like things to be symmetrical  Kind of an OCD thing maybe.


I'm a scruffy bugger anyway so that sort of thing doesn't bother me.


----------



## mbwilson111

buddies said:


> dang, i'll see what i think. i ended up buying some other ones on amazon which 2 people on here told me are good. if im not a fan ill buy the 808+ that take 3 years to ship. Rip that they arent the the same quality.  i thought maybe just rebranding for other regions.



Don't forget, these have nothing to do with Sony.  They are a very nice Chinese bud that just happens to use the name

The things that ship from China do not always take as long as you think they will   I have had things arrives in as quickly as 6 days... or take as long as 6 weeks (rarely though).  I would say that 10 to 20 days is pretty average for us.  More expensive things usually arrive fastest.


----------



## Willber

DBaldock9 said:


> @mbwilson111  and her husband @HungryPanda  have a large collection of earbuds/earphones - so their recommendations are based on personal experience.


I have a fair number myself, I don't recommend things I haven't got.


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> Don't forget, these have nothing to do with Sony.  They are a very nice Chinese bud that just happens to use the name
> 
> The things that ship from China do not always take as long as you think they will   I have had things arrives in as quickly as 6 days... or take as long as 6 weeks (rarely though).  I would say that 10 to 20 days is pretty average for us.  More expensive things usually arrive fastest.


My average delivery time is about two weeks.


----------



## buddies

seanc6441 said:


> Oh hey haha
> 
> I'm the same IEMs are not a friend to my ears. Hope you find the right earbuds then.
> 
> ...


That took me so long to find those on aliexpress LOL, yeah its 31 USD.
i also bought the FAAEAL Datura-X on amazon which 2 people on here told me is good.  SO i'll tell u how those sound. also those k lbb look amazing like the perfect look imo for what i like. tell me how they sound!


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> I just bought the new K's LBB released recently ($30) and I think it ticks a lot of your boxes for aesthetics (all black design, metal shell and nice compact fit) but I'll have to wait to hear it first.
> 
> It SHOULD be a good upgrade to what you have at the moment but I'll know when i hear it.



I have no K's buds but you probably know that my husband has several.  I thought I had stopped buying buds now that my husband has been making some for me... I have been listening to his creations for the past few days.

What if that K's LBB were to be my last bud purchase... hmmmm... everyone needs a K's right?


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> everyone needs a K's right?


Oh dear, is that true?


----------



## buddies

mbwilson111 said:


> Don't forget, these have nothing to do with Sony.  They are a very nice Chinese bud that just happens to use the name
> 
> The things that ship from China do not always take as long as you think they will   I have had things arrives in as quickly as 6 days... or take as long as 6 weeks (rarely though).  I would say that 10 to 20 days is pretty average for us.  More expensive things usually arrive fastest.


yo, i am just gonna wait for my datura-x to come, also i may try and get those K LBB's from seanc some how. maybe gift him giftcard for him 2 get them for me on aliexpress cus i know him from previous msg's. those k lbb's look so AMAZING and the earbud god on this website said something good about them for their price.


----------



## rkw

buddies said:


> Hey guys so far ive been recommended the Svara L the most, anyone else have other recommendations preferably on ebay? Looking for EMX500 style sound but better, SUB 100 price.  The Svara L are right at 100 so cheaper may persuade me! THANKS


You can wait for a 10%-15% off site-wide discount promotion code on eBay, which happen regularly (maybe a couple of times a month). There was one this past Friday for 15% off and I got $52 off a $350 IEM. They are flash promotions that last one day and not announced in advance. You have to watch for it by opening the website or app (basically daily) and it will be advertised in a banner. Also here on Head-Fi people post when it happens in the Deals Thread.  Sometimes electronics are excluded from the deal and you have to read the fine print. Here was the one for last Friday:


----------



## DBaldock9

seanc6441 said:


> On another note I made the switch from spotify premium 320kbps to flac 16/24bit files after downloading all my favourite albums over the last few days.
> 
> I'll still use spotify for new music, and UAPP app on android for the lossless files.
> 
> ...



I've been using Spotify Free for a couple of years (w/Ad muting apps on my devices), and was considering Spotify Premium or Google Play Music, after I dropped my paid Hulu TV subscription.
Ended up going with Google, since I could upload up to 50,000 tracks of my own CD rips (so far, I've only ripped ~210 of several thousand CDs).
Since I don't really listen to current Pop / Rock / Country music, I didn't even consider Tidal.
The Google Play Music app has turned out to be less than convenient, so I've ended up subscribing to Spotify Premium.

Either of these apps, and Radio Streaming apps (TuneIn Pro, AccuRadio, UAPP "Other Radio Stations") have quite a number of music tracks - and with the lowest bit rate streams, I can definitely hear an artificial sheen (unnatural hardness) in the Treble, when listening with any of my earbuds or earphones.


----------



## buddies

rkw said:


> You can wait for a 10%-15% off site-wide discount promotion code on eBay, which happen regularly (maybe a couple of times a month). There was one this past Friday for 15% off and I got $52 off a $350 IEM. They are flash promotions that last one day and not announced in advance. You have to watch for it by opening the website or app (basically daily) and it will be advertised in a banner. Also here on Head-Fi people post when it happens in the Deals Thread.  Sometimes electronics are excluded from the deal and you have to read the fine print. Here was the one for last Friday:


maybe ill do this when i save up for an expensive earbud or a DAP.  right now im not buying anything over 50 really. Thanks for tip tho, just got on this website so i can start to use it for that deals page or w/e, THANKS R K  W


----------



## mbwilson111

@seanc6441  which color of the K's LBB did you order and why?  Seems the cable color is different ... not just the shells.


----------



## Themilkman46290

Happy New year's guys, hope you all have a good year and find your perfect buds!!


----------



## purplesun

My son's collection of damaged white E808+ I made back in late 2016/early 2017.
Tell him to put them in small ziplock bag, but he never listens, "Dad can always fix them". Sigh.



Transducers from "good" E808+. Bought the white casings (rare find) and cables on taobao as well.
Cost less than USD$10 per earbud, not counting the sacrificial "terrible-sounding" E808+ thrown away in pre-testing.


----------



## seanc6441

buddies said:


> im the guy who was spamming u for earbuds,


No worries at all!


mbwilson111 said:


> I have no K's buds but you probably know that my husband has several.  I thought I had stopped buying buds now that my husband has been making some for me... I have been listening to his creations for the past few days.
> 
> What if that K's LBB were to be my last bud purchase... hmmmm... everyone needs a K's right?


Right!



mbwilson111 said:


> @seanc6441  which color of the K's LBB did you order and why?  Seems the cable color is different ... not just the shells.


The all black one. It looks... Nicer... To me anyway.


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> The all black one. It looks... Nicer... To me anyway.



I would probably go with that too.  My bell shaped EB2 has a white cable.   All black on this would be good.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 31, 2018)

DBaldock9 said:


> I've been using Spotify Free for a couple of years (w/Ad muting apps on my devices), and was considering Spotify Premium or Google Play Music, after I dropped my paid Hulu TV subscription.
> Ended up going with Google, since I could upload up to 50,000 tracks of my own CD rips (so far, I've only ripped ~210 of several thousand CDs).
> Since I don't really listen to current Pop / Rock / Country music, I didn't even consider Tidal.
> The Google Play Music app has turned out to be less than convenient, so I've ended up subscribing to Spotify Premium.
> ...


Agreed. The tracks that are mastered in 24 bit and anything from 96khz and above sounded quite phenomenal. I mean its hard to describe and some people simply don't hear a difference but to me its a worthwhile improvement.

You're right there's a certain smoothness to the upper frequency, it's detailed without being harsh (unless your earbuds are really harsh. But it sounds just a tiny bit more alive and natural. Plus the feeling of owning the physical files is kinda nice too.

320 spotify sounds great don't get me wrong, but there is an undeniable something extra going on when using the absolute best mastered flac and possibly MQA stuff too.

For example this is sounding phenomenal


----------



## Blueshound24 (Dec 31, 2018)

seanc6441 said:


> Debateable. Not sure if any 'standard' dynamic driver in plastic pk shell is worth that amount. Even if the tuning is god like!
> 
> At $199 it's a consideration, but $320 is completely ridiculous IMO.
> 
> And I'm saying this from a position of bias towards earbuds (owning a few $200+ pairs) they are *rarely worth the price. We over pay because its niche and we are a little crazy* lol





I appreciate your comment. It brings a sense of sanity in this sometimes way overpriced hobby of ours and it's kind of wake-up call back to reality. Things that cost more are not always better.


I'm kind of sorry to re-hash this cause I've asked before. But... In the vein of not overspending on the SD2+, what buds would be _somewhat similar_ to my fav full size cans, (*I know, apples to oranges. buds to cans*), Elear and AH-D7000?

I think what was recommended was something like the TO400s? Any other recommendations? Maybe Svara L? OURART ACG?

It's not a deal breaker, but I do like a smaller shell like the Yuin. If it had something like that it would be a bit better, and easy to drive... *but if not - no big deal. *

I really would like TOTL sound.


----------



## rkw (Dec 31, 2018)

DBaldock9 said:


> Since I don't really listen to current Pop / Rock / Country music, I didn't even consider Tidal.


Music genres shouldn't be considered. I subscribe to Tidal and listen almost exclusively to classical. Except for independent record labels, the music catalog between the different streaming services are pretty much the same. Sample Tidal with their 30 day free trial, or currently they have a promotion of $1.99 for 3 months of HiFi subscription.

I find that lossless and hi-res streaming really do make a difference in sound quality. For lossless, look at Tidal, Deezer, and Qobuz. I have subscriptions to Tidal, Spotify, Google, and Qobuz (a free preview subscription — they haven't officially launched in the US yet). I have family subscriptions to Spotify and Google and they are worth it to us. Google Music automatically includes ad-free YouTube Red (now called Premium) which is great. Really hard to go back to watching YouTube with ads. I may drop Tidal when Qobuz officially launches in the US.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 31, 2018)

Blueshound24 said:


> I appreciate your comment. It brings a sense of sanity in this sometimes way overpriced hobby of ours and it's kind of wake-up call back to reality. Things that cost more are not always better.
> 
> 
> I'm kind of sorry to re-hash this cause I've asked before. But... In the vein of not overspending on the SD2+, what buds would be _somewhat similar_ to my fav full size cans, (*I know, apples to oranges. buds to cans*), Elear and AH-D7000?
> ...


Thing is the SWD2+ might be worth it for you at $199 simply because you want something very good in earbud form factor, my complaint was with its outlandish retail price, and those of recent releases in the $300-500 range.

I will take one thing back, the swd2+ is not a standard plastic driver come to think of it if I recall correctly... Seeing an image it appears to be some unique composite type matieral.








So that's a little different than most earbuds? But if you consider what $320 can buy you in the headphone or speaker world it's a hard sell. But as I'm not a big headphone guy I cannot really say how the TOTL buds I've heard will compare to the headphones you own.

But as I said before at $199 I would consider it (if I was looking for new earbuds). But I've decided to be happy with what I have currently and am modding some cheaper buds with decent success which im using atm.

Myself I still consider the Ks ling the earbud with the most potential that I own in terms of great effortless extension, consistent frequency response and slighty better transients compared to my other earbuds. But issues in its tuning without componsating with EQ will stop me from rec'ing it.

Interestingly enough most of its issues completey disappear if i angle the driver towards the ear canal. It seems to settle down the midrange resonance and the low mid body is fuller. I find the direct firing sound more natural too. I just need to find a way to keep it at that angle.

I guess what I'm saying is so far out of the high end earbuds I've heard none of them are flawless or even particularly neutral across the board. That's why its usually safer to choose budget earbuds and just mod or EQ them to your liking. As I'm doing with a bunch of RY4s, Vidos and EMX500s.


----------



## DBaldock9

rkw said:


> Music genres shouldn't be considered. I subscribe to Tidal and listen almost exclusively to classical. Except for independent record labels, the music catalog between the different streaming services are pretty much the same. Sample Tidal with their 30 day free trial, or currently they have a promotion of $1.99 for 3 months of HiFi subscription.
> 
> I find that lossless and hi-res streaming really do make a difference in sound quality. For lossless, look at Tidal, Deezer, and Qobuz. I have subscriptions to Tidal, Spotify, Google, and Qobuz (a free preview subscription — they haven't officially launched in the US yet). I have family subscriptions to Spotify and Google and they are worth it to us. Google Music automatically includes ad-free YouTube Red (now called Premium) which is great. Really hard to go back to watching YouTube with ads. I may drop Tidal when Qobuz officially launches in the US.



Just found out that Tidal has some sort of scam going on - the front page of their website was advertising a Special ($1.99 for 3 Months of HiFi), good through 1/2/2019. So I clicked on the link, and signed up.  After entering my credit card info, I then had to select a Subscription, and the Special rate wasn't even listed as an option.

This is the last of my OT posts - although I am listening to Cuban Jazz from Tidal to my LG V30, on my Wong Kuan Wae modded Vido earbuds.


----------



## seanc6441

DBaldock9 said:


> Just found out that Tidal has some sort of scam going on - the front page of their website was advertising a Special ($1.99 for 3 Months of HiFi), good through 1/2/2019. So I clicked on the link, and signed up.  After entering my credit card info, I then had to select a Subscription, and the Special rate wasn't even listed as an option.
> 
> This is the last of my OT posts - although I am listening to Cuban Jazz from Tidal to my LG V30, on my Wong Kuan Wae modded Vido earbuds.


that sucks... Maybe fire them an email and see what happens. Meanwhile enjoy the Jazz!


----------



## golov17

seanc6441 said:


> Thing is the SWD2+ might be worth it for you at $199 simply because you want something very good in earbud form factor, my complaint was with its outlandish retail price, and those of recent releases in the $300-500 range.
> 
> I will take one thing back, the swd2+ is not a standard plastic driver come to think of it if I recall correctly... Seeing an image it appears to be some unique composite type matieral.
> 
> ...


in fact, the driver in D2+ looks different ..


----------



## rkw (Dec 31, 2018)

DBaldock9 said:


> Just found out that Tidal has some sort of scam going on - the front page of their website was advertising a Special ($1.99 for 3 Months of HiFi), good through 1/2/2019. So I clicked on the link, and signed up.  After entering my credit card info, I then had to select a Subscription, and the Special rate wasn't even listed as an option.


I think it will do the right thing, just that the signup was a poorly designed interface. You have signed up for a subscription that will begin charging you $19.99/month in 3 months, unless you cancel. Can you check your credit card, and see if $1.99 was charged? I think you can cancel your subscription right now, and it will say that it is cancelled but your subscription will continue to be valid for another 3 months.

Here is something else to try, actually free (not $1.99) for 3 months:
https://slickdeals.net/f/11688915-3...ing-subscription-free-must-create-new-account (last comment said the deal still worked as of December 13)


----------



## DBaldock9

rkw said:


> I think it will do the right thing, just that the signup was a poorly designed interface. You have signed up for a subscription that will begin charging you $19.99/month in 3 months, unless you cancel. Can you check your credit card, and see if $1.99 was charged? I think you can cancel your subscription right now, and it will say that it is cancelled but your subscription will continue for another 3 months.
> 
> Here is something else to try, actually free (not $1.99) for 3 months:
> https://slickdeals.net/f/11688915-3...ing-subscription-free-must-create-new-account (also read the comments)



The only Hifi Subscription available to select, was 1 Month Free, and then they start charging $19.99 per Month on 31-JAN-19.


----------



## rkw

DBaldock9 said:


> The only Hifi Subscription available to select, was 1 Month Free, and then they start charging $19.99 per Month on 31-JAN-19.


Okay then, you should contact them and complain: https://support.tidal.com/hc/en-us/requests/new

Just to verify, look at your account status and see if it says the same thing: https://my.tidal.com/us/account/subscription


----------



## chaiyuta

SWD3 is coming~


----------



## DBaldock9

rkw said:


> Okay then, you should contact them and complain: https://support.tidal.com/hc/en-us/requests/new
> 
> Just to verify, look at your account status and see if it says the same thing: https://my.tidal.com/us/account/subscription


Quote from the Tidal website - 


> Your subscription will automatically renew 1/31/19. You will be charged $19.99 from your Credit Card
> 
> Upgrading your subscription from Premium to HiFi will reduce the remaining days in your trial or billing cycle by 50%
> 
> ...



I did follow the link you provided, to submit a Trouble Ticket.


----------



## Azmkml

exavolt said:


> The white ones have UE cable.


I mean in sound


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Hello guys!

Swd2+ or ZoomFred/CampFred? Which one to pick?

Happy new year!


----------



## j4100

Happy New Year to all on the thread. I'm currently chilling with Wooden Shjips on the laptop via Mojo and Vunbuds - xmas present to myself


----------



## iron2k

rkw said:


> I think it will do the right thing, just that the signup was a poorly designed interface. You have signed up for a subscription that will begin charging you $19.99/month in 3 months, unless you cancel. Can you check your credit card, and see if $1.99 was charged? I think you can cancel your subscription right now, and it will say that it is cancelled but your subscription will continue to be valid for another 3 months.
> 
> Here is something else to try, actually free (not $1.99) for 3 months:
> https://slickdeals.net/f/11688915-3...ing-subscription-free-must-create-new-account (last comment said the deal still worked as of December 13)


It worked for me 

Thanks


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Jan 1, 2019)

Also using VUNBUD, listening to Electro Swing nonstop for about a day now. Have a real Love/Hate with these(They seem very source dependant), but sound ridiculous thru Cayin N5 into Cayin C5 low gain. Very large 3D holographic sound stage and good quality bass that has some serious thump to it. Very Headphonish. 

Using heigi donuts with VE donuts over them.


----------



## Carrow

I have a set of ShoonTH Explorer L and Imperial Audio Paradise on the way, as well as Docomo and JVC buds for fits and giggles. And _also _a set of Zen LL. Which I'm paying for, I know they're usually a gift included with VE ZOE buds but I think they could be worth a shot on their own.

Might be time to move on some pairs I don't get use out of!


----------



## j4100

Carrow said:


> ...And _also _a set of Zen LL. Which I'm paying for, I know they're usually a gift included with VE ZOE buds but I think they could be worth a shot on their own.



How did you manage to get them?


----------



## silverfishla

Recently went back to the PMV buds after a long hiatus and find them quite good...again.


----------



## HungryPanda

Tonight I'm listening to a cheap set of buds and enjoying them very much  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...Earbud-Earphones-Pk-Mx985-A8/32687542028.html

to


----------



## Willber

Talking of cheapies, is there any reason I shouldn't get these?:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...pm=2114.10010108.1000015.5.4f13388cWllIRo&s=p

Apparently they have a good soundstage.


----------



## HungryPanda

Willber said:


> Talking of cheapies, is there any reason I shouldn't get these?:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...pm=2114.10010108.1000015.5.4f13388cWllIRo&s=p
> 
> Apparently they have a good soundstage.


They are not bad at all for that price


----------



## Willber

HungryPanda said:


> They are not bad at all for that price


Thanks. *click*


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 1, 2019)

I think I remember @groucho69 saying that he threw his MS16 in the trash.


----------



## Willber (Jan 1, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I think I remember @groucho69 saying that he threw his MS16 in the trash.


Well, thanks a lot!
(Ah well, it's only a fiver.)


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## Willber (Jan 1, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


>


Yep, sums it up.
"Don't die wondering."
Or
"I can resist everything except temptation."


----------



## RobinFood (Jan 1, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I think I remember @groucho69 saying that he threw his MS16 in the trash.



I love the ms16 for gaming. I find it works amazingly for Overwatch footsteps, but you need to adjust for the bloated soundstage.

It isn't great for music, but it is rather unique. Everything sounds like you are in the middle of an outdoor concert, and seems to reverb forever. Definately worth 5$ for the experience, but not a daily driver by any stretch.


----------



## purplesun

Willber said:


> Yep, sums it up.
> "Don't die wondering."
> Or
> "I can resist everything except temptation."



Without temptation, Headfi forum would have less than a dozen members!
Carry on, please


----------



## Willber

RobinFood said:


> I love the ms16 for gaming. I find it works amazingly for Overwatch footsteps, but you need to adjust for the bloated soundstage.
> 
> It isn't great for music, but it is rather unique. Everything sounds like you are in the middle of an outdoor concert, and seems to reverb forever. Definately worth 5$ for the experience, but not a daily driver by any stretch.


Thanks, sounds like it could be interesting. The 'outdoor concert' reminds me of my KSC75. The space seems boundless.


----------



## Carrow

j4100 said:


> How did you manage to get them?



Dude on here selling in a bundle but he opened to offers on part of the set!


----------



## subwoof3r

Happy new year (and listening) 2019 to all of you, earbuds enthusiasts all around the world 
Hope to see new interesting and more affordable earbuds stuffs for this year to come!
Best!


----------



## euge (Jan 2, 2019)

@seanc6441 BELL-T1 is up on the banned store for 490usd 

also on https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ctor-Earbud-Flat-Head/119089_32967555432.html


----------



## subwoof3r

Hi everybody,

Just a quick message to warn you about the guy behind « Blur » earbuds, aka « Wong Kuan Wae » on facebook.

I just gently asked him a basic question on facebook messenger today to know if he was maybe selling the cables he do for its earbuds (you guys can see the screenshot of our discussion below), but looks like he didn’t really understood my question. After trying to explain him again, he told me to check aliexpress, so it is an interesting info, since it looks like he don’t do the cables by himself, but just buying something ready made on aliexpress (which is a bit crazy for the price asked of its earbuds..).
After trying to rexplain him what I wanted, he looked like offesensed and just blocked me from its facebook, which just show how the guy is in reality..
So, be warned, be extremely careful to all people who want to give a try to buy him some of its Blur earbuds. Personally, he is now also in my blacklist now, as I don’t really like this kind of attitude..
This guy should be avoided from selling earbuds, really.

_Screenshot of the discussion here :_

 

Cheers,


----------



## Carrow (Jan 2, 2019)

disregard this


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 2, 2019)

Carrow said:


> Oh yikes.
> 
> I said I was getting a Black Panther from him later in the year but I might have to reconsider.



 I am very happy with my Blur Black Panther.  Many people have been happy with their dealings with him.  But, don't do it if you are not comfortable.

Edited after reading @DBaldock9 s post.  So, Wong does make most of his own cbles and the one in question was for gifts. He tried to help by saying it could be found on aliexpress.


----------



## iron2k

I just want to share that my experience with Wong was all good, I bought a pair of Dark Chocolate earbuds and later I asked him to please make some cable holder/winder for me and everything went fine.

I'm not taking sides, just wanted to share my experience.

Regards and happy new year to all.


----------



## HungryPanda

Just because of a conversation between two languages on facebook, which I thought was a little rude to repost here, there is no reason to discredit Wong. He makes excellent earbuds and does not rip people off. I make my own earbuds and depending on cable, drivers, shells, jacks and tuning foams it can soon add up if you make rather good ones. There is also time spent making them and researching tuning.


----------



## DBaldock9

subwoof3r said:


> Hi everybody,
> 
> Just a quick message to warn you about the guy behind « Blur » earbuds, aka « Wong Kuan Wae » on facebook.
> 
> ...



That was my post that you quoted from the Earbuds Anonymous Facebook group. A while back, Wong mentioned that he had modified/re-wired some Vido earbuds, and was going to send them to people who had bought certain Blur earbuds. I sent a PM, asking whether my hALF/hALF were included. They weren't, but he ended up with an extra pair of Vido, so he offered to send them to me - hence my post when they arrived.
. 
For the modded/re-wired Vido, Wong never claimed those cables were handmade - and he wasn't selling them, just giving them away as gifts.
. 
For his Blur earbuds, he does use high quality  wire, which he hand twists, and assembles into cables.
. 
So, his comments about looking on AliExpress for the cables he used on the Vido earbuds, was a correct response to your question.


----------



## Carrow

DBaldock9 said:


> That was my post that you quoted from the Earbuds Anonymous Facebook group. A while back, Wong mentioned that he had modified/re-wired some Vido earbuds, and was going to send them to people who had bought certain Blur earbuds. I sent a PM, asking whether my hALF/hALF were included. They weren't, but he ended up with an extra pair of Vido, so he offered to send them to me - hence my post when they arrived.
> .
> For the modded/re-wired Vido, Wong never claimed those cables were handmade - and he wasn't selling them, just giving them away as gifts.
> .
> ...



Thanks for clearing that up


----------



## purplesun

subwoof3r said:


> Hi everybody,
> below), but looks like he didn’t really understood my question. After trying to explain him again, he told me to check aliexpress, so it is an interesting info, since it looks like he don’t do the cables by himself, but just buying something ready made on aliexpress (which is a bit crazy for the price asked of its earbuds..).



If the complete cables are purchased from Aliexpress, it should not be too difficult find the them, maybe a day or 2 searching the site. If the wires and plugs are bought separately, it will be a bit harder, but still possible. Usually surprisingly cheap; effort and time is typically the main cost involved.

I don't know anything about Wong's earbuds nor the person, but reading the post, it seems to be a case of miscommunication. For example: you could have elaborated on "making cables manually". To an engineer, like me, that could imply drawing the wires out from raw metal/plastics; it's extremely costly to do so, if not done in bulk.


----------



## subwoof3r

Thanks everyone for your messages,
For sure, he a well known guy into earbuds scene, but not sure why he decided to ban me without any real reason for such a basic question like this 
Anyway, it's just a warn for people and future new buyers mainly, I really hope everything will be fine with your future transactions with him, but for me it will be a no go, definitely.
Cheers'


----------



## Korbah

Happy new year!

Sadly my beloved yuin pk3 has stopped working. I liked not having to use a amp and ran them off my htc10 whilst walking to work.

Reading the threads here there seems to be a gap in the $20-50usd range for a yuin pk shell for earbuds. I'd love another pk shaped earbud as I love the fit and I'm happy to spend in that 20-50 range but not the $165 for e.g the shozy bk's which are commonly recommended. Nicehck don't seem to sell pk's currently from what I can tell. 

Any thoughts? Sorry if I've missed a recommendation, I have gone through the thread extensively to find an answer but seem to have missed it.

Cheers


----------



## HungryPanda

I buy a lot of my earbud parts and cables from Chitty's Store on Aliexpress. He is great to communicate with and fast to ship things out


----------



## wskl

Korbah said:


> Happy new year!
> 
> Sadly my beloved yuin pk3 has stopped working. I liked not having to use a amp and ran them off my htc10 whilst walking to work.
> 
> ...



From NiceHCK store, I found DQSM Panda

In recent months, the other ones which have been talked about are Fengru DIY PK1 (this is 2.5 balanced so you will need an adapter if you don't have a balanced source) and Willsound PK16 / PK32 (contact Willsound on Facebook or order from Rholupat)

Hope that helps you with a few more options.


----------



## HungryPanda

Tonight I'm revisiting Toneking Mr Z Tomahawk and forgot how nice the bass is tuned on these.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 3, 2019)

euge said:


> @seanc6441 BELL-T1 is up on the banned store for 490usd
> 
> also on https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ctor-Earbud-Flat-Head/119089_32967555432.html


Yeah i thought better of it and decided not to buy them even though originally i had almost convinced myself to... If I was buying id have went directly to K's and look for their price direct to seller.

But honestly I came to my senses. I wasn't prepared to risk $460+ on an earbud i couldnt hear first, and to my knowledge that has no real solid warranty (like a 1-3 year long free repair etc) so in the end I decided to relax and stick to what I have right now.

If I could somehow hear it first and decide this is my perfect 'endgame' earbud then sure I'd probably have saved up and bought it. But there's too many risk factors as is.


----------



## KevDzn

seanc6441 said:


> But honestly I came to my senses. I wasn't prepared to risk $460+ on an earbud i couldnt hear first, and to my knowledge that has no real solid warranty (like a 1-3 year long free repair etc) so in the end I decided to relax and stick to what I have right now.



Couldn't agree with you more. Dropping $500+- without reviews and audition is kinda crazy. (Not a problem if one has an unlimited budget)



seanc6441 said:


> If I could somehow hear it first and decide this is my perfect 'endgame' earbud then sure I'd probably have saved up and bought it. But there's too many risk factors as is.



I realised long ago that Endgame stuff is a myth in hifi audio. There's always newer stuff that will catch ya interest. Unless one stops coming to this site ever. Even if you take a few years break, once you start peeping again it's back to square one.

Just enjoy the journey......Life is short


----------



## chaiyuta

On the contrary, I wish I could see more expensive earbuds coming. It implies that the earbud market is growing up. Money doesn't matter as far as It could reach my ideal sound quality.


----------



## Korbah

Thanks  for the replies so far!

Here's some of the suggestions:
Chitty PK 16/32/150 ohm (3 options $23usd)
DSQM Panda ($15usd)
Fengru PK1 ($22usd) & (???PK2  $12usd)
Willsound pk16 ($40usd) /pk32 ($? not in stock on Rholupat)

Aside from price how can you compare any of these buds? Not finding many comparison reviews via search


----------



## chinmie

Korbah said:


> Thanks  for the replies so far!
> 
> Here's some of the suggestions:
> Chitty PK 16/32/150 ohm (3 options $23usd)
> ...



i don't know the state of the newest PK32, but the ones I've tried a while ago seems to have unstable sound from ootb and during burning period. maybe willy already perfected the tuning nowadays, but i haven't check yet. 

the PK16 on the other hand is Etymotic ER4XR incarnate on earbuds form, well, a bit warmer, but still similar. definitely one of my favorite


----------



## j4100

Today's musical fun is via my new Late Fall Monk Plus. Cheers Lee.


----------



## GREQ

Does anyone know of any list (however small) of earbud frequency response graphs?
I'm trying to get an idea of how other buds tend to measure, or something close to how they 'should' measure, so I can get an idea of how accurate my test measurements are before I start recklessly posting them up.


----------



## 40760

j4100 said:


> Today's musical fun is via my new Late Fall Monk Plus. Cheers Lee.



Today seems like a good day for both of us!

 I received my ZOE too... Now only waiting for the upgrade cables which I decided and ordered mere days later.

To think that I can finally re-acquaint with the ZOE again, which is now also discontinued, makes it even more special in my collection.

BTW how's the Fall Edition?


----------



## DAndrew

Hey guys, Happy New Year!

I have been absent for quite some time, but I blame the ZoomFred for that. I can finally say I have had it for enough time to write an extensive review for it and I plan to do that somewhere in the next week. For short: ENDGAME.

Did anything new pop up? (earbud wise ofc)


----------



## BrunoC

I have received the Snow Lotus 1.0 plus and it's very good. Very natural sound with good extension on both sides. On par with the EMX500 and R4YS, maybe better.

I see they are not available any more  but the Snow Lotus 2 is.

Does anyone have the 2.0 and how does it compare to the 1.0 plus?


----------



## golov17

Cypherus ZoomFred Pro in da house )))
Analog sound in my ears )))
Awesome winter mix )))


----------



## BrunoC

Great!

Nothing like a analogue, warm sound in chilly winter days


----------



## ctaxxxx

iron2k said:


> I just want to share that my experience with Wong was all good, I bought a pair of Dark Chocolate earbuds and later I asked him to please make some cable holder/winder for me and everything went fine.
> 
> I'm not taking sides, just wanted to share my experience.
> 
> Regards and happy new year to all.



How is Wong? Haven't bought a bud from him since a year ago. I imagine he has plenty of new buds by now. 

This one looks spectacular - https://www.instagram.com/p/Bqb1yHQgkU9/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet



golov17 said:


> Cypherus ZoomFred Pro in da house )))
> Analog sound in my ears )))
> Awesome winter mix )))



Should really buy these again, at least for a collection of my favorite buds.


----------



## Carrow

j4100 said:


> Today's musical fun is via my new Late Fall Monk Plus. Cheers Lee.



Shoelace cables!


----------



## subwoof3r (Jan 3, 2019)

golov17 said:


> Cypherus ZoomFred Pro in da house )))
> Analog sound in my ears )))
> Awesome winter mix )))


Nice! 
Do you see any difference between old ZF ?


----------



## j4100

palestofwhite said:


> BTW how's the Fall Edition?



I wasn't playing familiar music and was only listening via my phone, but it seemed a little dark. I'll see about burning this one in.


----------



## Narayan23

chaiyuta said:


> On the contrary, I wish I could see more expensive earbuds coming. It implies that the earbud market is growing up. Money doesn't matter as far as It could reach my ideal sound quality.



I disagree, money does matter, even to the ones who have plenty of it and especially to those who have less. Would you recable your €15 buds with a €1000/metre cable if it gave you ideal sound quality? No you wouldn´t because you could get to 95% ideal for much less, more money doesn´t necessarily equal better sound quality, this is especially true with our beloved earbuds. When bud prices start getting into good headphone category, where in my opinion they can´t compete, we have a problem, I wish to see better sounding earbuds coming out not more expensive ones.


----------



## chaiyuta

@Narayan23 : In the present, there are many earbuds stuff that would meet your criteria if you seek for cheap (less than 100 usd) but still high cost per performance ratio earbuds. Many people here could recommend you. However It is difficult for me to please those stuff and sound quality they offers. Many stuff that are better to me tend to be the flagship model level stuff.  I believes there are many makers that produce stuff to serve customers in the segment you are, therefore you should be fine. But in high-end and high-price tag (more than 300 usd) segment, there are pretty few earbuds available. For your think-for-oneself question, I didn't do it yet because those stuff I tried are still not fit my liking. But in my country there are a few people who did that and they seem happy with the outcome. Last words I want to say is "The good ecology always has high biological diversity".  Each person has different thought of purchasing is included.


----------



## golov17

subwoof3r said:


> Nice!
> Do you see any difference between old ZF ?


Not tried old ZF


----------



## golov17

Carrow said:


> Shoelace cables!


----------



## golov17




----------



## doggiemom

Finally received the Glaive from Crow audio.  I started with the recommended config of donuts with the screws in, listening to The National’s Pink Rabbits with my KANN. I found the vocals lean and underemphasied, and the soundstage pretty compressed.  The details were there; just everything sounded crowded together.  I removed the 2 screws, and the vocals warmed up a tad, but not to the extent I would have liked.  (Matt’s vocals are a big draw for me).

I switched to the Huby R6 and repeated the experiment.  The outcome was about the same, but in fairness, the two DAPs have very different sound signatures, and the KANN is a better match for The National, IMHO.

This is primilary first impressions, but these aren’t going to my TOTL earbuds.  The cable is stiff and microphonic.  I like the “screw it” idea, as one of my ZMF headphones has bass ports, and you really do get different tunings by how many you plug.  I admire this effort to innovate and experiment with earphone shells, I just wish they would have gone a little further.

These are not bad buds by any means, I’d say upper high end.  Your results may vary.


----------



## nick n

golov17 ,
I am starting to read through some of the  " *World's best earbuds contest. Or tablets against tablets* " thread over at Player.ru
Over 1000 pages I noticed !
Translation is not perfect, but I have read enough stuff about other things there (  mainly Soviet era orthodynamics ) to get a feel for the imperfect translation


----------



## j4100

I played the late fall Monk Plus through my FiiO X5ii/ RA2.0bl / warp core combo and it sounded much better, though still a little "dark". I guess the better quality source files and amplification played their part there!

My thoughts on the subject of expensive buds. I haven't gone beyond $200 yet and may or may not break that barrier. However, like Sean, if I do, it's unlikely to be for buds with cheap plastic shells. Thinking that K's or Blur might be more to my taste, but it's difficult to splash out 100's of $ on something you cannot audition or return if you don't like them.

That said, there seems to be an increasing market for buds and the profit margin for higher priced buds is likely to continue to increase. However, chaiyuta made a good point that there are still a lot of earbuds below $100 that have a great sound. I think we all get carried away looking for the next big thing when we already have some great buds


----------



## Azmkml

Hi guys im new in the audiophile so forgive me for bad description about the sound of the earbud.

So, i end up buying SL 2.0 white version cz evryone in the forum give good impresion about it and chose white version cz i dont like L jack. Before this i use edifier h185 for my daily driver, when im  hearin the sound of SL 2.0 why im feelin like its so muddy to my ears ? And the soundstage is so narrow compare to h185 ? And the energy of the earbud so much lacking compare to the h185 ? Is what im hearin is true ? Or just my ears that cant appreciate the earbuds. Thx


----------



## subwoof3r

Azmkml said:


> Hi guys im new in the audiophile so forgive me for bad description about the sound of the earbud.
> 
> So, i end up buying SL 2.0 white version cz evryone in the forum give good impresion about it and chose white version cz i dont like L jack. Before this i use edifier h185 for my daily driver, when im  hearin the sound of SL 2.0 why im feelin like its so muddy to my ears ? And the soundstage is so narrow compare to h185 ? And the energy of the earbud so much lacking compare to the h185 ? Is what im hearin is true ? Or just my ears that cant appreciate the earbuds. Thx



Maybe you were too used of your H185 ? sometimes our brain needs to accomodate to new sound signature to really appreciate new earbuds


----------



## golov17

subwoof3r said:


> Maybe you were too used of your H185 ? sometimes our brain needs to accomodate to new sound signature to really appreciate new earbuds


+++


----------



## DAndrew

So time for writing a bit about the Cypherus ZoomFred.

I would like to say in advance that I want to sell it ( for those interested, send me a pm ), but that my review does not have the purpose to influence someone in buying it. The reason I am selling is because I am trying to get more serious about audio and as such I would like to start writing reviews, building my own buds and other stuff I have thought of. For that I need money, so I want to sell and buy gear constantly from now on. With that out of the way I will try to write something thats not boring hopefully lol.


I dont know where to begin, so I will start with my initial impressions of it. When I first listened to it my first reaction was "wow", I was looking for an earbud with deep bass and that is what I got with the ZoomFred. I will admit that I was very unhappy with the treble at first since I am sensitive to it and cannot really listen to overly bright gear in general. 

I talked with Herry and he assured me that it will smooth out after the burn-in period but I was skeptic and wanted to see if burn-in is actually real and not just the brain getting used to the sound signature. I stopped listening to it and just let it play the recommended whooping *200 hours*. To my surprise, the sharpness in the highs really smoothed out!

What really stood out to me is how well it responds to EQ-ing and the type of source you are using. IMHO this is not a baby Red Dragon but better. While the Red Dragon will be tailor made to sound in a specific way, you can make the ZoomFred sound in different ways. Nothing is perfect of course and it has its limits, but I have experimented with different sources and I will go into detail about that in the full review I will post on my soon-to-be blog(?).

I will talk about the sound while using it with my DragonFly 1.2 clone, which is a fairly bright source.

The sound was rather neutral with slightly elevated bass. Dont imagine that I mean boring; neutral as in everything about it is balanced. It reminded me of the Focal Elear in some ways.

I will keep things brief since this is starting to get too long haha

*Lows*

The proper word for the bass would be "vast". Dont imagine subwoofer level of bass, but it has higher quality bass than most of the full sized headphones I heard. Best bass I heard in an earbud before the ZF was with the Samsara, which I considered to have good quality bass. The ZoomFred wipes the floor with it. The bass extends so low, its unreal.

*Mids*

Mids are very clear and the separation is really good, on par with full sized headphones.

*Highs*

Treble is smooth but still detailed and has an enjoyable presence. Perfect for long listening sessions.

*Comfort
*
It is not a standard MX500 shell. It has slightly larger vents and the plastic is the highest quality on any shell I have seen. I used to complain about it being so expensive and not out of metal before getting it but now I think it is better than a metallic one. You really have to hold it in your hand to see 

*Cable*

The part with the white sleeve is pretty stiff, but not extremely, while the exposed parts of it are more manageable but not as soft as say the cable from the Samsara. Herry sends it to the USA for treatment so theres that.

*Conclusion*

I strongly recommend getting them if you are considering a TOTL earbud. Very versatile and if you are good at EQ-ing, it will have more than one sound signature, so you wont get bored of these. I dont think there is anything that can compare to them on the market yet.

*P.S*: I forgot to mention that you could drive these out of a potato. They are 32 ohms and extremely easy to drive, you will really not get much improvement from a dedicated amp. You will, however, notice a difference when using different DACs/DAPs.

*P.S* 2: Excuse the writing mistakes and if you are confused or dont understand something I have said dont hesitate to ask!


----------



## mbwilson111

Azmkml said:


> Hi guys im new in the audiophile so forgive me for bad description about the sound of the earbud.
> 
> So, i end up buying SL 2.0 white version cz evryone in the forum give good impresion about it and chose white version cz i dont like L jack. Before this i use edifier h185 for my daily driver, when im  hearin the sound of SL 2.0 why im feelin like its so muddy to my ears ? And the soundstage is so narrow compare to h185 ? And the energy of the earbud so much lacking compare to the h185 ? Is what im hearin is true ? Or just my ears that cant appreciate the earbuds. Thx



What is your source?  The Snow Lotus 2.0 is 64 ohm and the h185 is 32 ohm so it seems like the snow lotus would want a bit more power than the edifier.  Also, like others have said, if the sound signatures are different, the new one will sound strange at first unless you are a person like me who enjoys different sound signatures. 

You may also need to experiment with positioning them.  The shell of the snow lotus is very different from that of the edifier.  Maybe it does not fit you?


----------



## Azmkml

mbwilson111 said:


> What is your source?  The Snow Lotus 2.0 is 64 ohm and the h185 is 32 ohm so it seems like the snow lotus would want a bit more power than the edifier.  Also, like others have said, if the sound signatures are different, the new one will sound strange at first unless you are a person like me who enjoys different sound signatures.
> 
> You may also need to experiment with positioning them.  The shell of the snow lotus is very different from that of the edifier.  Maybe it does not fit you?


Only my phone haha, can u recommend the best cheap one ? yeah maybe that how is it. Thx this is help a lot. 

Nope, its fit really well.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 4, 2019)

@Narayan23 @chaiyuta

I hope to see the market continue to grow too. But I also hope the rise in price is reflected in the products sound quality. If companies continue to use the same drivers and shells every year and keep increasing the price because the model is 'new'. Thats what would disappoint me.

At the end of the day these businesses think of profit as much as sound. So if they can get away with selling us basically the same (but slightly tweaked) earbuds for twice the price because we as consumers keep buying the new products who is to stop them from making easy money?

At least in the headphone world if you make a product and it's a lazy effort to upgrade from last years model. There is much more scrutiny from buyers. There are reviewers measuring new gear, there's much more exposure and risk of hurting the brand name.

In the earbuds world. We just buy buy buy and if it's not up to standard we wait for the next model to arrive. At least that is what I have observed in the past year.

Of all the TOTL earbuds I've bought I consider them all to be somewhat overpriced for what you get. Is the Mojito worth $250? Not really. My Ks Ling on sound alone should cost $150 maybe. The real price to performance is all in sub $50 earbuds. Most TOTL earbuds are way overpriced at the moment.

I just hope if the price continues to grow in the TOTL price range, we get a much better product for it.


----------



## Willber

Azmkml said:


> Hi guys im new in the audiophile so forgive me for bad description about the sound of the earbud.
> 
> So, i end up buying SL 2.0 white version cz evryone in the forum give good impresion about it and chose white version cz i dont like L jack. Before this i use edifier h185 for my daily driver, when im  hearin the sound of SL 2.0 why im feelin like its so muddy to my ears ? And the soundstage is so narrow compare to h185 ? And the energy of the earbud so much lacking compare to the h185 ? Is what im hearin is true ? Or just my ears that cant appreciate the earbuds. Thx


Try it with thin foams, or none at all.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 4, 2019)

For anyone interested, that's what the inside of the K's Black Ling looks like.




Minus the blobs of dynamat i put in there (black stuff).

The filter behind the driver is very thick, I removed it on one side and replaced with a slightly thinner filter of the same type. Which bumps up the low end and low mids notably.

Since i want to use these with thin ali foams or modded donuts , this is a welcome change. Tonality is much fuller and less shrill.


----------



## purplesun

Azmkml said:


> when im  hearin the sound of SL 2.0 why im feelin like its so muddy to my ears ? And the soundstage is so narrow compare to h185 ? And the energy of the earbud so much lacking compare to the h185 ? Is what im hearin is true ? Or just my ears that cant appreciate the earbuds. Thx



Further to @Willber's recommendation, you can also make donut ear foams with single-hole punchers from stationary shops:






Donut foams tend to lift the highs and widen sound stage.
Personally, I double-up the donuts per ear to increase isolation as well.


----------



## Willber

I forgot about donuts, don't use them much, but most buds seem to come with them these days.


----------



## camikeva

seanc6441 said:


> @Narayan23 @chaiyuta
> 
> I hope to see the market continue to grow too. But I also hope the rise in price is reflected in the products sound quality. If companies continue to use the same drivers and shells every year and keep increasing the price because the model is 'new'. Thats what would disappoint me.
> 
> ...




I am a relative new-comer to earbuds, but I have about 10 sets.  Nothing real expensive.  What I find is that there doesn't seem to be a really significant difference in earbuds as compared to the "all over the map difference" in iem's.  I am in the $5 to $50 range, but from your post, I think this may be the case in higher priced buds.  I have come to the conclusion (probably wrong) that there just aren't as may design choices as there are in the iem genre.  I mean, the shells are basically the same for most buds, and most use a single DD driver of roughly the same size..  I am sure there are nuances, but as long as basic construction remains the same, I don't know how you get more than nuances.  I'm sure I will get killed for this, and I am sure that  more "experienced ears" can extoll the virtues of one bud compared to another, but compared to the iem world, I would still consider these nuances, rather than profound differences.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 4, 2019)

camikeva said:


> I am a relative new-comer to earbuds, but I have about 10 sets.  Nothing real expensive.  What I find is that there doesn't seem to be a really significant difference in earbuds as compared to the "all over the map difference" in iem's.  I am in the $5 to $50 range, but from your post, I think this may be the case in higher priced buds.  I have come to the conclusion (probably wrong) that there just aren't as may design choices as there are in the iem genre.  I mean, the shells are basically the same for most buds, and most use a single DD driver of roughly the same size..  I am sure there are nuances, but as long as basic construction remains the same, I don't know how you get more than nuances.  I'm sure I will get killed for this, and I am sure that  more "experienced ears" can extoll the virtues of one bud compared to another, but compared to the iem world, I would still consider these nuances, rather than profound differences.


You're not wrong. We get some dual dynamic setups. We get some variation between more open/closed designs. But the vast majority are single DD in a semi closed shell.

So the nuances come from driver size, matieral and tuning mostly.

Most sub $200 earbuds are made from roughly the same driver matieral. Some of the TOTL stuff will be more exotic matierals, stronger magnets etc. But also more R and D into the tuning to refine the frequency response and match the drivers.

My main issue is that companies are releasing new earbuds between $300-500 and doing so without giving detailed specs of what the driver is made of, giving us measurement charts, giving warranty to buyers incase of earbuds failing (which happens ALOT).

I used to be enthusiastic about TOTL earbuds but after getting a few and having various issues with each (my ks ling actually had a rattle in the right driver, and I was lucky to get a repair because there's no real warranty) I've grown a little weary of spending my money on a gamble.

That's what these high end earbuds seem to be - a gamble. As there's limited references to go by from other buyers, no measurements, incoherent specs lists which are often inaccurate.

This is all fine when the earbuds are $50, you accept the risk factor and hope for the best. But at $300, 500, more? I just expect a little better from TOTL earbuds going forward. If this market is to become popular again there needs to be a higher standard of information and customer service along with improved product durability.


----------



## purplesun (Jan 4, 2019)

camikeva said:


> I am a relative new-comer to earbuds, but I have about 10 sets.  Nothing real expensive.  What I find is that there doesn't seem to be a really significant difference in earbuds as compared to the "all over the map difference" in iem's.  I am in the $5 to $50 range, but from your post, I think this may be the case in higher priced buds.  I have come to the conclusion (probably wrong) that there just aren't as may design choices as there are in the iem genre.  I mean, the shells are basically the same for most buds, and most use a single DD driver of roughly the same size..  I am sure there are nuances, but as long as basic construction remains the same, I don't know how you get more than nuances.  I'm sure I will get killed for this, and I am sure that  more "experienced ears" can extoll the virtues of one bud compared to another, but compared to the iem world, I would still consider these nuances, rather than profound differences.



IMHO,
Earbuds are like in-ear versions of open-back headphones
IEMs are like in-ear versions of closed headphones.
And almost all their respective pros/cons are mirrored across.

Again, IMHO, I think there's a bit of a wild west spirit among earbuds enthusiasts. With a variety of boutique tuners to large volume manufacturers and outright knock-off copycats, the sound quality very often do not follow any sort of sensible pricing structure.


----------



## HungryPanda

With different internal tuning foams and materials, drill holes and different drivers both resistance and material _
( carbon, titanium, bio- cellulose etc), cables used, earbuds can sound very varied and do not have to be expensive.


----------



## Azmkml

purplesun said:


> Further to @Willber's recommendation, you can also make donut ear foams with single-hole punchers from stationary shops:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Already use donut foams, the thick one. The package include that. I'll try double it. Thxx


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> With different internal tuning foams and materials, drill holes and different drivers both resistance and material _
> ( carbon, titanium, bio- cellulose etc), cables used, earbuds can sound very varied and do not have to be expensive.


Makes it much easier to do mods and diy work. Which is a blessing for anyone who enjoys that part of the hobby.

You just can't mod IEMs like you can earbuds. That's the biggest positive of budget earbuds imo. Or higher end stuff if you're ballsy


----------



## golov17 (Jan 5, 2019)

DAndrew said:


> So time for writing a bit about the Cypherus ZoomFred.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


By the way, yes, warming up changes them very much, even surprisingly, I confirm..  
and also, I noticed that they sound great with non-top level sources, I get great sound right from my old Meizu mx2 smartphone


----------



## nick n

Sometimes you run across something you find so good you have to make sure some others get to hear it also.
A spare or two and a couple for gifts as late Christmas presents to folks nearby.
These Sabia V6 EXperimental are impressively tuned.  

 I really like the build quality of those AEC Taiwan 3.5mm plugs too.


----------



## purplesun

Azmkml said:


> Only my phone haha, can u recommend the best cheap one ? yeah maybe that how is it. Thx this is help a lot.
> Nope, its fit really well.


Just occurred to me you come from the land of many earbud tuners (Indonesia).
Can't you get a "special" low pricing from your countryman?
Just don't tell us how much you got it, else everyone will want one.


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> ...
> I just hope if the price continues to grow in the TOTL price range, we get a much better product for it.



There was a time where big dynamic ToTL (of its time) cans were relativel cheap. Then the market grew and the price went up and up.

Then there was a time where big electrostatic ToTL (again, of its time, as with the rest mentioned below) cans were relativel cheap. Then the market grew and the price went up and up.

Right about the same time as above, planar ToTL cans were relativel cheap. Then the market grew and the price went up and up.

Non surprisingly, there was also a time where ToTL IEM were relativel cheap. Then the market grew and the price went up and up.

Now back to earbuds - there was a time ToTL earbuds were relative cheap, then the market grew and the price went up and up. But right after that earbuds were almost forgotten with the popular rise of IEM, then it was rediscovered again here in this very thread - now market is growing and guess what?  The price is also going up and up.


----------



## chaiyuta

My UCOTECH ES-P1 is not plastic housing and it can be said the nicest appearance among earbuds in my opinion. I am also satisfied from what I paid for. For 440USD I paid, I still prefer ES-P1 sound than many IEM in that price range I tried YMMV. There are some people in my country purchased ATH CM2000Ti, and one informed me that after burn-in passed, it is not harsh sound. I wish I could take audition it in the future. By the way, I don't want to discredit on specific earbuds company brand or DIY brand but there are many earbuds models that are pretty overpriced without real deal R&D. I just avoid those stuff. However currently I do "WoW WoW' on my JVC HA-FW10000 which is now likes hype tsunami even ヤンネM8 who is a reviewer blogger many earbuds, IEM, headphones, etc. already bought it too.


----------



## exavolt (Jan 5, 2019)

purplesun said:


> Just occurred to me you come from the land of many earbud tuners (Indonesia).
> Can't you get a "special" low pricing from your countryman?
> Just don't tell us how much you got it, else everyone will want one.


Fellow Indonesian here. I'll say that even the retail prices at our online marketplaces are generally lower than the USD price tags. We don't need to ask for the "special" price.

Talking about Indonesian tuners, I only realized that Cypherus is an Indonesian after peeked at his Instagram.



nick n said:


> Sometimes you run across something you find so good you have to make sure some others get to hear it also.
> A spare or two and a couple for gifts as late Christmas presents to folks nearby.
> These Sabia V6 EXperimental are impressively tuned.
> 
> I really like the build quality of those AEC Taiwan 3.5mm plugs too.


Okay. I really need to get one of these.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

How many on board here have found that their favorite ear buds model has nearly replaced their open-back headphones? My Nhoords are gathering dust after receiving my Blur Beautiful Witch buds and now these PureSounds PS100-600S.


----------



## mbwilson111

WoodyLuvr said:


> How many on board here have found that their favorite ear buds model has nearly replaced their open-back headphones? My Nhoords are gathering dust after receiving my Blur Beautiful Witch buds and now these PureSounds PS100-600S.



In the summertime when it is hot, yes.  They do often sound as though I am listening with headphones. 

Now that the weather (and the house) are cold again... I do love my headphones. Earbuds are not as easy for me  to put in and take out (and put back in) as they are for some people.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

mbwilson111 said:


> In the summertime when it is hot, yes.  They do often sound as though I am listening with headphones.
> 
> Now that the weather (and the house) are cold again... I do love my headphones. Earbuds are not as easy for me  to put in and take out (and put back in) as they are for some people.


Weather is definitely a contributing factor as you have mentioned... in my case high humidity.


----------



## bobeau (Jan 5, 2019)

Hey Everyone!

Long-time head-fier, total noob to earbuds.  Right now using KSE1200s at work, HD58x at home, and CA Andromedas plugged into my iphone on the go.  Recently started a job where I'm in a shared office with 6 other engineers and at times find using my KSE1200s impractical if people need to get my attention - some of the devs use Airpods, of course I'm going to look here first for alternatives .

In any case, my tuning preference trends toward good extension on both ends and neutrality, not necessarily a treble/basshead, prefer quality over quantity.  Listen to a wide variety of things so really looking for an all-arounder - something that can handle both classic rock and trip hop.  Can eq if need be but would prefer not to.  Willing to go up to $250 but would prefer to keep it closer to $100.  Not looking to buy an assortment, would prefer to keep it to just one for this particular use case where I'll only be using it some 5-10 hours per week.

So far I've spent a few hours looking at this thread and chatter on the headphones reddit, as well as reading a variety of online reviews.

- The one that sticks out most to me is Penon BS1, but I'm a little nervous about that cable being difficult to manage.
- The Toneking TO400s also looks cool, and while I'll mostly be using a Chord Mojo at times I may use an iPhone or MBP laptop port, and these have a super high impedance - should I be concerned?  Perhaps I should just go down a couple notches and get a TO180?
- The Shozy BK seems to be a classic but I feel it may be too mid focused for my taste.
- I see that Cyphereus is a popular high-end maker but taken aback by their use of plastic shells for $200+ models.

Any others that fit the bill?


----------



## purplesun

bobeau said:


> Hey Everyone!
> 
> Recently started a job where I'm in a shared office with 6 other engineers and at times find using my KSE1200s impractical if people need to get my attention. In any case, my tuning preference trends toward good extension on both ends and neutrality, not necessarily a treble/basshead, prefer quality over quantity.  Looking for an all-arounder - something that can handle both classic rock and trip hop.



Koss KSC75 is what I use when I need to listen for the doorbell. It's not earbud though. Decent extensions and all-rounder headphone. Downside is you will look like a Dr Who cyberman with the clips, or a hipster with the 80s-style modded headband. Performance wise - there's some distortion when played too loud, but co-workers should be telling you to turn down the volume before you reach that level. US$15 at Amazon plus a few extra dollars for the headband.


----------



## bobeau

purplesun said:


> Koss KSC75 is what I use when I need to listen for the doorbell. It's not earbud though. Decent extensions and all-rounder headphone. Downside is you will look like a Dr Who cyberman with the clips, or a hipster with the 80s-style modded headband. Performance wise - there's some distortion when played too loud, but co-workers should be telling you to turn down the volume before you reach that level. US$15 at Amazon plus a few extra dollars for the headband.



I've had several KSC75/35s over the years, they're awesome.  Can't have leakage though, it's a smallish office that at times is so quiet you can hear a pin drop.


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> There was a time where big dynamic ToTL (of its time) cans were relativel cheap. Then the market grew and the price went up and up.
> 
> Then there was a time where big electrostatic ToTL (again, of its time, as with the rest mentioned below) cans were relativel cheap. Then the market grew and the price went up and up.
> 
> ...


That's a good point. I just hope the quality increase can match the price increase like it has down in the IEM and headphone world.

However I will say this, did the price of high end headphones and IEM's double in a few years? Because that's what seems to have happened in the earbud world.

Companies who released flagship earbuds for $250 just two years ago are now pricing their TOTL buds at around $500.

I just hope the quality can match their ambitious pricing. Also we must note that most high end audio gear today comes with great customer service. When will we see manufacturer guarantees and warranty in the earbud world? If you look to 90% of $500+ IEM and headphones you get certain assurances from the manufacturer or seller.6

As I said, until I see these aspects improved I will remain cautious with high end earbuds going forward. These chi fi companies will have to up their game if they want to play in the big league with pricing.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> In the summertime when it is hot, yes.  They do often sound as though I am listening with headphones.
> 
> Now that the weather (and the house) are cold again... I do love my headphones. Earbuds are not as easy for me  to put in and take out (and put back in) as they are for some people.


And you have the Utopia right? So it makes sense that you will be inclined to opt for that on occasion


----------



## seanc6441

bobeau said:


> Hey Everyone!
> 
> Long-time head-fier, total noob to earbuds.  Right now using KSE1200s at work, HD58x at home, and CA Andromedas plugged into my iphone on the go.  Recently started a job where I'm in a shared office with 6 other engineers and at times find using my KSE1200s impractical if people need to get my attention - some of the devs use Airpods, of course I'm going to look here first for alternatives .
> 
> ...



If you are looking at TO400s you may aswell consider getting the newer TO600 instead? You're Mojo will have no issues there I'd imagine 

Some of the brass shell blur models, while at the top end of your budget, might interest you. Lots of people have Blur models in this thread and everyone seems to love them. You can shoot Wong Kuan Wae (the blur creator) a message on FB maybe and tell him what sound sig your looking for and give him your budget.


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> However I will say this, did the price of high end headphones and IEM's *double *in a few years? Because that's what seems to have happened in the earbud world.



Of course not, double will be too low a number. In 2008, the best IEM was UE Triple.fi 10 for around $300~400. These days we have universal IEM that cost a few thousands.


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> And you have the Utopia right? So it makes sense that you will be inclined to opt for that on occasion



No Utopia... that would be @doggiemom .   I don't actually want one.   Everything I have is in my list... grouped by first, headphones, then buds, then iems and finally amps and DAPs and everything else. 

That reminds me.  I wish everyone would fill in their gear in their profile... and make it available for others to see. It helps users to help each other.

I have noticed that many older users who probably do have their gear listed have it unavailable for view.  Something changed when the servers changed and the forum software changed.  You have to check your privacy settings to make sure the box is ticked to allow members to view your profile page.


----------



## bobeau (Jan 5, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> Of course not, double will be too low a number. In 2008, the best IEM was UE Triple.fi 10 for around $300~400. These days we have universal IEM that cost a few thousands.



The ER4 ruled the forum in the early 2000s for $300 until the Shure 500 was out in 2006 for $500.  For CIEMs the UE10 Pro was king at $1k.  The triple-fi more or less a way for Jerry Harvey to break into consumer-fi and I don't recall people taking seriously at first.  Main point though is there were very few options only 10 years ago and head-fi had a fraction of the traffic, like an order of magnitude less.

I feel the current high-end IEM situation started with the uptake of the JH13, which catalyzed the market for a plethora of $1k+ CIEMS and put a fire under Sony and AKG to put heavy resources into developing $1k IEMs.  Everything went crazy after that.  (It is interesting to note that the KSE1500 had been in development for some 8 years - so it means Shure was beginning to work on what eventually became a $3k system ~2007 or so.)

Regarding earbuds, the only thing I ever noticed (not being a user myself) was ATH usually having one on offer that was well regarded, and of course Yuin had a pretty solid footprint.  This thread is wonderfully active and the growing popularity what are now reasonably decent Earpods/Airpods probably bodes well for their future, just like Beats and Bose have been gateway drugs for alot of newer headphone audiophiles.


----------



## bobeau

seanc6441 said:


> If you are looking at TO400s you may aswell consider getting the newer TO600 instead? You're Mojo will have no issues there I'd imagine
> 
> Some of the brass shell blur models, while at the top end of your budget, might interest you. Lots of people have Blur models in this thread and everyone seems to love them. You can shoot Wong Kuan Wae (the blur creator) a message on FB maybe and tell him what sound sig your looking for and give him your budget.



Cool, will look into his stuff.

I'm not particularly fond of driving high-impedance cans out of the mojo, it just doesn't have much of a voltage swing.  I even prefer listening to my 150ohm hd58x out of the headphone port of my Macbook Pro when I'm using Roon to isolate the signal from the OS.  600ohms sounds like OTL tube amp time, but that's me thinking about full-size cans and having no experience with earbuds of this calibre - I know higher sensitivity ameliorates this to a degree, but I'm not sure if driver size does as well.


----------



## cathee

seanc6441 said:


> That's a good point. I just hope the quality increase can match the price increase like it has down in the IEM and headphone world.
> 
> However I will say this, did the price of high end headphones and IEM's double in a few years? Because that's what seems to have happened in the earbud world.
> 
> ...



I made some similar observations when I got my ZoomFreds. It's tough to score any aspect of these earbuds as acceptable aside from the sound (which is a 9-9.5/10).


----------



## silverfishla

seanc6441 said:


> That's a good point. I just hope the quality increase can match the price increase like it has down in the IEM and headphone world.
> 
> However I will say this, did the price of high end headphones and IEM's double in a few years? Because that's what seems to have happened in the earbud world.
> 
> ...


I certainly agree with you.  I love earbuds, but I guess I’m part of the revoltist group when it comes to pricing vs. build quality.  I just won’t spend the money on a bud that uses “off the shelf” parts.  It’s just not appealing to me, no matter the sound.  I’ll stick to stuff under $75.


----------



## purplesun

mbwilson111 said:


> That reminds me.  I wish everyone would fill in their gear in their profile... and make it available for others to see. It helps users to help each other.


Just did my very short list. Came from audio systems into headfi forum years ago, and never really considered myself an earphone aficionado (still don't). But been a earbud user since it was invented (1980, I think), and was surprised/shocked when I found out it was having a resurgence few years ago. IIRC, I paid about $10 for 10 pairs of earbud FOAMS in the dark days of earbud's near death, as they were very hard to find. Every Tom, Dick and Harry had to have their new fangled IEM for a month's worth of salary then.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 5, 2019)

purplesun said:


> Just did my very short list. Came from audio systems into headfi forum years ago, and never really considered myself an earphone aficionado (still don't). But been a earbud user since it was invented (1980, I think), and was surprised/shocked when I found out it was having a resurgence few years ago. IIRC, I paid about $10 for 10 pairs of earbud FOAMS in the dark days of earbud's near death, as they were very hard to find. Every Tom, Dick and Harry had to have their new fangled IEM for a month's worth of salary then.



I cannot see it yet... you need to tick the box in your privacy settings.  I have mine set to members only.  The default is no one.  I bet there are people who have spent time on their lists and don't know that no one can see it.

I get this:
This member limits who may view their full profile.


----------



## purplesun

mbwilson111 said:


> I cannot see it yet... you need to tick the box in your privacy settings.  I have mine set to members only.  The default is no one.  I bet there are people who have spent time on their lists and don't know that no one can see it.
> 
> I get this:
> This member limits who may view their full profile.



Is it not on my signature? That's my short list of stuff.


----------



## mbwilson111

purplesun said:


> Is it not on my signature? That's my short list of stuff.



oh ok... I was trying to click on your profile.  I didn't think about the signature.  It is there.  Very low contrast though so hard to read for me... old eyes.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 5, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> Of course not, double will be too low a number. In 2008, the best IEM was UE Triple.fi 10 for around $300~400. These days we have universal IEM that cost a few thousands.


But 2008-2018 is 10 years. There has been a lot of development in IEMs in the last 10 years surely.

If the flagship earbuds released in 2015-17 are around ~$250 (you can correct me if I'm wrong as you probably know the models released in these years). Then in 2018-19 we get

Simphonio d2+ $320
Ks Poseidon/Ks bell ti ~$500
New Mojito Pro (expected to be ~$500+?)
Blox TM9/Yin $289

That's almost twice as much with a two year gap. That's a huge leap and quite frankly I do not think the development has come as far as the price suggests. It's improving for sure, but are the new earbuds that much better?

In the IEM world most hugely expensive IEMs are custom fit and/or multiple BA driver setup. So you pay for a perfect fit and a complex tuning.

What are we paying more for in earbuds? What makes the cost justified. That's all I ask.

I guess I'm just a little disappointed with recent purchases like blox tm9 (basically a glorified emx500 with an open bass vent to kill the highs and allow deep low end). But i think im not the only one a little skeptical of recent pricing.

Maybe i should not be concerned and this is just the natural progression of the market. Time will tell.


----------



## silverfishla

seanc6441 said:


> But 2008-2018 is 10 years. There has been a lot of development in IEMs in the last 10 years surely.
> 
> If the flagship earbuds released in 2015-17 are around ~$250 (you can correct me if I'm wrong as you probably know the models released in these years). Then in 2018-19 we get
> 
> ...


I think you’re okay to second guess the pricing.  The iem market has tons of great offerings under $125.  You’ll find these offerings with increasingly better drivers and snazzy aesthetics.  Some of the newest $50 and less earbuds are seeing (I think) better drivers in them too.  There are IEMs with beryllium drivers in them that cost $100 with deep bass and so forth.  The earbud needs only 1 driver, and is easier to produce.  A full spectrum driver should be as easy to produce as a full spectrum DD driver for an iem.  Yet, the Moondrop Liebseld is $300 and the Moondrop Kanas Pro is $165.  Why?


----------



## chinmie

silverfishla said:


> I think you’re okay to second guess the pricing.  The iem market has tons of great offerings under $125.  You’ll find these offerings with increasingly better drivers and snazzy aesthetics.  Some of the newest $50 and less earbuds are seeing (I think) better drivers in them too.  There are IEMs with beryllium drivers in them that cost $100 with deep bass and so forth.  The earbud needs only 1 driver, and is easier to produce.  A full spectrum driver should be as easy to produce as a full spectrum DD driver for an iem.  Yet, the Moondrop Liebseld is $300 and the Moondrop Kanas Pro is $165.  Why?



true, iems sub $200 or $100 nowadays can compete with it's earbuds counterparts, sometimes even surpassing it, depends on your preferences in sound. so to me the saying that earbuds has the best price to performance ratio now mostly applies to sub $50 price


----------



## purplesun

mbwilson111 said:


> Very low contrast though so hard to read for me... old eyes.


Heh, I am glad you said it first. Your headphone inventory gives away you age a bit and, possibly, some time spent in studios.

"Cheeky person!". There, I said it for you!


----------



## mbwilson111

purplesun said:


> Heh, I am glad you said it first. Your headphone inventory gives away you age a bit and, possibly, some time spent in studios.
> 
> "Cheeky person!". There, I said it for you!



No studios for me...just your everyday music lover...who  happens to be married to a  Headfier.   His list is more insane than mine... and he has been in a few studios...and a couple of bands...back in the day...

All of this is headfi's fault.  I actually miss my old stereo system that I left behind in Michigan.  I think the buyers of my house got a great added bonus... 

Haha... I don't say "cheeky"... I am not British.


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> But 2008-2018 is 10 years. There has been a lot of development in IEMs in the last 10 years surely.



Most of IEM's (fast) price hike were around 2013~2014. That's when you start seeing a lot of very expensive IEM hitting the market - then the price hike slow down as it reaches the current level, right around 2016~2017. This is typical of any fast market grow where a very fast boom in a short period of time followed by a slowdown phase when the price holds high but market grow slow as it has been saturated on the top and hitting the price ceiling. IEM already went pass the fast growing phase and the last years or two and goes into the slow growing phase. I am using TF10 as an example which was a model released just before the fast growing phase to compared to the current slow growing IEM market. We still have plenty of examples between 2012 and 2015 that you can see a big price difference.

I'll say earbuds market is more or less right around the later stage on the fast growing phase. A big sign is that even Audio Technica, which abandoned the high-end earbuds market decades ago are making $400~500 earbuds now because they have sensed the boom. We might very well see a few more big price tag models, but very unlikely we will see another big price jump for the whole market mainly because earbuds are naturally a niche market when compared to IEM and full sized headphones, and thus it will enter the slow growing phase much earlier.


----------



## doggiemom

mbwilson111 said:


> No Utopia... that would be @doggiemom .


It is easy to confuse all two of us ladies on this thread.


----------



## mbwilson111

doggiemom said:


> It is easy to confuse all two of us ladies on this thread.



...because we both love music and dogs

, and have too many earbuds.


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> and have too many earbuds.


That's a ridiculous thing to say. Go to your room.
(Incoming: DP100, SL 1.0, MS16)


----------



## mbwilson111

Incoming Snow Lotus 2.0 white and K's something.

Going to my room soon.  Currently listening to music with my Tiandirenhe DIY Wooden buds using the balanced output of my Onkyo DP-X1..beautiful.


----------



## chaiyuta

Currently most Flagship IEMs price stuck around 4500 $USD which I think It should be around this price range quite a long time. Fortunately that I tried those IEMs but they didn't hit my homerun, but it doesn't mean they are not worth thier price cause I still see my surrounding with the respect on their hearing skill (friend or acquaintance) have one of each. Somes get 'A', while another is 'B', 'C', etc. In this high price tag segment, it is not collectivism (Best Buy, High C/P stuff because many recommend or many bought it.) but it is individualism. Each person has his own specific "excellent sound quality" definition. and I wish earbuds market will grow into the same way as now IEM Markets is. More variety of choices~. Each customer could judge what is worth buying for him.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 5, 2019)

doggiemom said:


> It is easy to confuse all two of us ladies on this thread.


In my head I was sure you both owned one! I guess I was mistaken.

What you favorite over ears then? The utopia ?


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> ...because we both love music and dogs
> 
> , and have too many earbuds.


And it's very hard to keep track of who owns what when we all own so much 

Of course I should have checked your profile as you do keep it updated. Many don't and i should update my own again!


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Incoming Snow Lotus 2.0 white and K's something.
> 
> Going to my room soon.  Currently listening to music with my Tiandirenhe DIY Wooden buds using the balanced output of my Onkyo DP-X1..beautiful.


There needs to be more wooden earbuds. Specifically woods that have good acoustic qualities and look beautiful.

Severe lack of choice when it comes to nice wooden earbuds!


----------



## stimuz (Jan 6, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> But 2008-2018 is 10 years. There has been a lot of development in IEMs in the last 10 years surely.
> 
> If the flagship earbuds released in 2015-17 are around ~$250 (you can correct me if I'm wrong as you probably know the models released in these years). Then in 2018-19 we get
> 
> ...



Definitely not, but the vendors set the price and curious hobbyists often assume price reflects quality. It's especially common in niche markets, which earbuds are very niche with IEMs generally being better. I prefer the lack of isolation comfort and ease of inserting/removing that earbuds allow, but prefer the sound of IEMs.


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> There needs to be more wooden earbuds. Specifically woods that have good acoustic qualities and look beautiful.
> 
> Severe lack of choice when it comes to nice wooden earbuds!



The wood on this does look beautiful.  I know nothing about its acoustic qualities. One problem with trying to have more style choices is that the foams end up covering too much of the shell so part of the beauty is hidden.  

I do find it difficult to position the ones that do not have a long stem. There is nothing to hold on to.  I don't want to stress the connectors.  

This is a gorgeous cable... very comfy for relaxed listening which is my preferred type of listening.  Definitely not for moving about as there is a weight to it.  It is not the cable that it came with.  That cable was OK but I would have just ordered it with no cable if I had know I would end up wanting to try balanced.


----------



## DBaldock9

mbwilson111 said:


> Incoming Snow Lotus 2.0 white and K's something.
> 
> Going to my room soon.  Currently listening to music with my Tiandirenhe DIY Wooden buds using the balanced output of my Onkyo DP-X1..beautiful.



I remember mentioning that those small wooden earbuds have really nice Midrange & Treble, with accurate Bass (even if it doesn't go as low as the larger shell earbuds).


----------



## GREQ (Jan 6, 2019)

For a few months I've recently been vastly enjoying the Kube buds.
I've been using it almost exclusively at my office workplace for about 3 months... until I more recently purchased a Sabia Elibud V6 at the recommendation of @nick n (cheers!! great recommendation!!)
I absolutely adore the fun signature of these buds.
Obviously it's not saying a lot since I've never heard any of what some might call 'high-end' ear buds, or the expensive stuff, but they sound high-end enough for me!

It's definitely the best bud I've ever heard and I think I've also finally got my earbud-measuring-technique down (using miniDSP EARS + REW).
So I've made a few graphs if anyone cares to see how they compare to all my other buds.

There will be some margin of error between each measurement, and between the channels on a single graph.
Please do not take these measurements as a scientific result, although I've taken as many precautions and measurements in an attempt to make these as accurate to themselves, each other, and my own ears as possible.
In some cases, these are close to the 'best case scenario', and some of these appear to sound much worse to my ears than how they measure because of my own ear shape.
For example, the Sennheise MX365 is quite a large bud, it does not fit properly in my ear and fits even worse in the miniDSP EARS jig, however it somehow looks like a warmer signature in the graph than it does to my own ears.
So please take all of this with your own subjective pinch of salt, as you all know by now how the fit makes such a big difference to how we hear any bud.

Enjoy!


----------



## Themilkman46290

Thank you guys for suggestions on the to400 and to200, my wife loves them, they came  few days ago,they are both really good I prefer the to200 and she loves the to400, so thanks guys, you all rock


----------



## mbwilson111

GREQ said:


> For a few months I've recently been vastly enjoying the Kube buds.



I would love to try a Kube.  I have been interested ever since I saw a photo.


----------



## bobeau (Jan 6, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> If you are looking at TO400s you may aswell consider getting the newer TO600 instead? You're Mojo will have no issues there I'd imagine



So I went ahead and purchased the TO600 from Penon!  While not ideal, Mojo has decent reviews driving 600ohm full-size headphones so I imagine it will do alright with these.  $105 is a tiny drop in the bucket in my audiophile journey and I'm really curious as to what the current state of the art in earbuds is.  To split the difference, purchased some VE Monk+ from Massdrop so I have a good idea of the range of good entry level to high-end is and for something to use from my iPhone headphone out in a pinch.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 6, 2019)

bobeau said:


> So I went ahead and purchased the TO600 from Penon!  While not ideal, Mojo has decent reviews driving 600ohm full-size headphones so I imagine it will do alright with these.  $105 is a tiny drop in the bucket in my audiophile journey and I'm really curious as to what the current state of the art in earbuds is.  To split the difference, purchased some VE Monk+ from Massdrop so I have a good idea of the range of good entry level to high-end is and for something to use from my iPhone headphone out in a pinch.


You won't have any issues with powering them I'm almost certain. They may be 600 ohm but most high impendance earbuds are not particularly hard to drive. I've owned TO400s, 195ohm ks ling, a 400 ohm diy driver and all are reletively easy to drive with DAPs even. Should be a walk in the park for the mojo. What's nice though is that it gives you a bit of room to play with the volume levels.

I use the LG V30 and found it drives them all percectly well. I think your mojo is probably twice as powerful at the very least.


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> The wood on this does look beautiful.  I know nothing about its acoustic qualities. One problem with trying to have more style choices is that the foams end up covering too much of the shell so part of the beauty is hidden.
> 
> I do find it difficult to position the ones that do not have a long stem. There is nothing to hold on to.  I don't want to stress the connectors.
> 
> This is a gorgeous cable... very comfy for relaxed listening which is my preferred type of listening.  Definitely not for moving about as there is a weight to it.  It is not the cable that it came with.  That cable was OK but I would have just ordered it with no cable if I had know I would end up wanting to try balanced.



I'm pleased I got these on 11.11, though I have still to try them with a different cable. Thanks you David and youself for posting about them. Nice to have another bud that isn't a plastic MX500 shell.

Kubes. Heard of them, but where do you get them?

I have come to the conclusion that I need a large box to keep mine in. Oh, and a label maker. I already have a few buds that I can't remember which ones they are


----------



## HungryPanda

It is advisable to be organized once your collection grows


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> It is advisable to be organized once your collection grows



Good idea... when do you want to start?


----------



## HungryPanda

I have a system don't you know


----------



## DBaldock9

I think this was when @HungryPanda and @mbwilson111 were getting things set up...  
.


----------



## mbwilson111

DBaldock9 said:


> I think this was when @HungryPanda and @mbwilson111 were getting things set up...
> .



It has been abandoned.


----------



## ValSilva

DBaldock9 said:


> I think this was when @HungryPanda and @mbwilson111 were getting things set up...
> .


They bought this facility for the earbuds they'll buy this year


----------



## mochill

https://www.instagram.com/headphoneguru/?hl=en

Headphoneguru makes different material earbuds


----------



## mbwilson111

mochill said:


> https://www.instagram.com/headphoneguru/?hl=en
> 
> Headphoneguru makes different material earbuds



Some are very beautiful.  I was tempted, partly because of the nice wooden box with the owl on it.  I am not going to order anymore.  I have a few HungryPanda buds that I have not spent enough time with yet  Maybe one day he will try some different materials, but first we need to enjoy what we have.


----------



## Willber

Storage: I keep the ones I use hanging on hooks along a shelf (four per hook) within easy reach. The ones I don't use are banished to my Drawer of Disappointment.


----------



## purplesun

I store my earbuds/IEMs in individual ziplock bags about the size of a playing card then stuff them in a plastic containers.
The one that I use daily is always together with my wallet, keychain and phone and goes everywhere with me.
There's no smaller audio equipment than a rolled-up earbud in a small ziplock bag.
Rolled-up IEMs are bulkier and more fragile; have broken a few carrying in them around.


----------



## purplesun (Jan 6, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I actually miss my old stereo system that I left behind in Michigan.  I think the buyers of my house got a great added bonus...


Yeah, I miss them too, as all my amps won't start up anymore. I have to get round to repairing them. I bought a tiny SMSL Amp/BT receiver/DAC recently just to hear my speakers play again. Not audiophile nirvana, but it's functional.

Stacks of back-breaking equipment and cables the flexibility of crowbar to achieve "proper" spatial imaging outside my head. That's proper audiophile! Heh!


----------



## doggiemom

seanc6441 said:


> In my head I was sure you both owned one! I guess I was mistaken.
> 
> What you favorite over ears then? The utopia ?


Yes, the Utopia are my favorite and get the most on-head time.  I bought a turntable as a Christmas present to myself, and am really enjoying the Utopia with the TT.

My second favorite headphones are probably the ZMF Vibros.  They have a very different sound signature versus the Utopia and cost a lot less, but I really enjoy their tuning with acoustic and folk/Americana-type music.

The Crow Audio GLAIVE is growing on me, but I still don't like the cable.  It is stiff and the buds pop out all the time.  (Hooks are uncomfortable for me).  I think it may be the same cable as the White CampFred.


----------



## chinmie

doggiemom said:


> Yes, the Utopia are my favorite and get the most on-head time.  I bought a turntable as a Christmas present to myself, and am really enjoying the Utopia with the TT.
> 
> My second favorite headphones are probably the ZMF Vibros.  They have a very different sound signature versus the Utopia and cost a lot less, but I really enjoy their tuning with acoustic and folk/Americana-type music.
> 
> The Crow Audio GLAIVE is growing on me, but I still don't like the cable.  It is stiff and the buds pop out all the time.  (Hooks are uncomfortable for me).  I think it may be the same cable as the White CampFred.



DJ Doggiemom for the win! 

i happen to like the stiff oyaide cable that the glaive uses that went out and purchase some for my iems and Svara L (and also my KSC75). it doesn't tangle and hold it's straight form


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 6, 2019)

doggiemom said:


> Yes, the Utopia are my favorite and get the most on-head time.  I bought a turntable as a Christmas present to myself, and am really enjoying the Utopia with the TT.
> 
> My second favorite headphones are probably the ZMF Vibros.  They have a very different sound signature versus the Utopia and cost a lot less, but I really enjoy their tuning with acoustic and folk/Americana-type music.
> 
> The Crow Audio GLAIVE is growing on me, but I still don't like the cable.  It is stiff and the buds pop out all the time.  (Hooks are uncomfortable for me).  I think it may be the same cable as the White CampFred.


I really love the look and attention to detail of the ZMF full size wood headphone lineup. From what I've heard Zach is a cool guy and cares about his products. If I was to ever buy a TOTL over ear I'd definitely consider one of them. The Auteur is on my wish list


----------



## doggiemom

chinmie said:


> DJ Doggiemom for the win!
> 
> i happen to like the stiff oyaide cable that the glaive uses that went out and purchase some for my iems and Svara L (and also my KSC75). it doesn't tangle and hold it's straight form


Ha ha, thanks!    The cable does look nice and everything you said about it is true, but I find it very microphonic - if I rub my fingers down it, you can hear it in the buds.



seanc6441 said:


> I really love the look and attention to detail of the ZMF full size wood headphone lineup. From what I've heard Zach is a cool guy and cares about his products. If I was to ever buy a TOTL over ear I'd definitely consider one of them. The Auteur is on my wish list


Yes, he is.  He and his wife go to a lot of the CanJams.  My husband lost the bass plugs that come with the Vibros (they probably ended up in the vacuum canister), and when we met at CanJam they promised to send replacements and they did.


----------



## jogawag

FAAEAL Snow-lotus 1.0+/1.0 Plus Blue Hifi Earphone 64 Ohm Earbuds Commemorative Edition Limited Sale ONLY 100 PCS
https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32966966924.html


----------



## Willber

Thanks! *yoink*


----------



## exavolt (Jan 7, 2019)

What the difference between SL plus and non-plus?

Edit: decided to get both anyway so I can A-B them.


----------



## waynes world (Jan 7, 2019)

jogawag said:


> FAAEAL Snow-lotus 1.0+/1.0 Plus Blue Hifi Earphone 64 Ohm Earbuds Commemorative Edition Limited Sale ONLY 100 PCS
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32966966924.html



Thanks! We'll see if they come close to the RY4S's or Sabia V6's!


----------



## jogawag

waynes world said:


> Thanks! We'll see if they come close to the RS4Y's or Sabia V6's!


I'm sorry, I don't have Sabia so I don't know Sabia's sound...


----------



## jogawag

exavolt said:


> What the difference between SL plus and non-plus?


Please look at https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4479781/all .


----------



## nick n (Jan 7, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I would love to try a Kube.  I have been interested ever since I saw a photo.





j4100 said:


> Kubes. Heard of them, but where do you get them?



*KUBE V1* =which GREQ was speaking about= are only generally over in Indonesia and thereabouts.
_ I will talk to the seller about maybe getting some more up for sale,_ if successful I will link up.
* KUBE V2* are a bit different with much bigger housings.


P.S. waynesworld had linked the Sabia V6 here.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2557#post-14666360

OK message sent about KUBE V1 ( in various colours ), now the wait...


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

jogawag said:


> FAAEAL Snow-lotus 1.0+/1.0 Plus Blue Hifi Earphone 64 Ohm Earbuds Commemorative Edition Limited Sale ONLY 100 PCS
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32966966924.html




love to try them but $70 to ship to Canada! yikes! no can do...


----------



## ColdsnapBry (Jan 7, 2019)

I like earburds because it doesn't feel as jarring as thumb up the butt when they pop out at the gym like a IEM with a good seal. Got a pair of RYS4S coming.


----------



## atmosfearz

jogawag said:


> FAAEAL Snow-lotus 1.0+/1.0 Plus Blue Hifi Earphone 64 Ohm Earbuds Commemorative Edition Limited Sale ONLY 100 PCS
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32966966924.html


I was crying to seller to give me one and 2 weeks later... Сoincidence? Don't think so)


----------



## exavolt

atmosfearz said:


> I was crying to seller to give me one and 2 weeks later... Сoincidence? Don't think so)


I wonder why they stopped selling the plus if it's an upgrade. Why not stopping the original and producing more pluses?


----------



## Willber

exavolt said:


> I wonder why they stopped selling the plus if it's an upgrade. Why not stopping the original and producing more pluses?


Perhaps it's not as good as the original? I'll find out in a couple of weeks. The SL 1.0 is still my favourite of all my gear, some costing 20x as much.


----------



## Carrow (Jan 7, 2019)

Anyone able to hook me up with a pair of Sabia V6s? Rholupat out of stock! Shipping to Ireland of course.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache (Jan 7, 2019)

Willber said:


> Perhaps it's not as good as the original? I'll find out in a couple of weeks. The SL 1.0 is still my favourite of all my gear, some costing 20x as much.



I just ordered a set of these ones here...
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIF...445.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2f104c4dOOCcF1

$3 shipping I can handle...lol

maybe the shipping for those 1.0+ commemoratives is a mistake.  I don't know why it would cost $70 to ship one set...


----------



## Willber

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> I just ordered a set of these ones here...
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIF...445.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2f104c4dOOCcF1
> 
> $3 shipping I can handle...lol


That's where I got mine from. I've got the white (clear) and the grey. The cable is lovely in terms of comfort and practicality.
I notice that the 1.0+ I ordered doesn't have a braided cable, which is a shame.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

Willber said:


> That's where I got mine from. I've got the white (clear) and the grey. The cable is lovely in terms of comfort and practicality.
> I notice that the 1.0+ I ordered doesn't have a braided cable, which is a shame.



I went for basic black


----------



## Willber

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> maybe the shipping for those 1.0+ commemoratives is a mistake.  I don't know why it would cost $70 to ship one set...


Send them a message and ask them.


----------



## atmosfearz (Jan 7, 2019)

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> I just ordered a set of these ones here...
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIF...445.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2f104c4dOOCcF1
> 
> $3 shipping I can handle...lol
> ...


From what I've seen on Aliexpress everything can be shipped only via DHL to Canada from now on. Some strikes.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

atmosfearz said:


> From what I've seen on Aliexpress everything can be shipped only via DHL to Canada from now on. Some strikes.



strikes been over for a while now.  Most of Faaeal's other buds are about $3 shipping for quantities of 1 or 2...


----------



## Willber

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> strikes been over for a while now.  Most of Faaeal's other buds are about $3 shipping for quantities of 1 or 2...


As I said, best to ask them.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache (Jan 7, 2019)

Willber said:


> As I said, best to ask them.



Actually I think I'll stick with the 1.0s for the time being.  Sounds like they are pretty nice buds too.  If you happen to have the EMX500S and/or the RY4S UE how would you say they compare? (oh, I see them both listed in your sig so you do have them.  Excellent... )


----------



## waynes world

BadReligionPunk said:


> Also using VUNBUD, listening to Electro Swing nonstop for about a day now. Have a real Love/Hate with these(They seem very source dependant), but sound ridiculous thru Cayin N5 into Cayin C5 low gain. Very large 3D holographic sound stage and good quality bass that has some serious thump to it. Very Headphonish.
> 
> Using heigi donuts with VE donuts over them.



It would be interesting to know how close the VUNBUDS and Sabia V6's sound.



nick n said:


> Sometimes you run across something you find so good you have to make sure some others get to hear it also.
> A spare or two and a couple for gifts as late Christmas presents to folks nearby.
> These Sabia V6 EXperimental are impressively tuned.
> 
> I really like the build quality of those AEC Taiwan 3.5mm plugs too.



Yes, giving away the Sabia V6's as Christmas presents is a sure way to remain favorite Santa lol



exavolt said:


> Fellow Indonesian here. I'll say that even the retail prices at our online marketplaces are generally lower than the USD price tags. We don't need to ask for the "special" price.
> 
> Talking about Indonesian tuners, I only realized that Cypherus is an Indonesian after peeked at his Instagram.
> 
> Okay. I really need to get one of these.



Everyone should 



purplesun said:


> Koss KSC75 is what I use when I need to listen for the doorbell. It's not earbud though. Decent extensions and all-rounder headphone. Downside is you will look like a Dr Who cyberman with the clips, or a hipster with the 80s-style modded headband. Performance wise - there's some distortion when played too loud, but co-workers should be telling you to turn down the volume before you reach that level. US$15 at Amazon plus a few extra dollars for the headband.



Nothing wrong with the hipster look! I like it (and the ksc75's) so much that I have them on my head every day.



GREQ said:


> For a few months I've recently been vastly enjoying the Kube buds.
> I've been using it almost exclusively at my office workplace for about 3 months... until I more recently purchased a Sabia Elibud V6 at the recommendation of @nick n (cheers!! great recommendation!!)
> I absolutely adore the fun signature of these buds.
> Obviously it's not saying a lot since I've never heard any of what some might call 'high-end' ear buds, or the expensive stuff, but they sound high-end enough for me!
> ...



Awesome info! Glad you're feeling the Kube and Sabia love. Nick done good!



Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> love to try them but $70 to ship to Canada! yikes! no can do...



I ordered it on my phone last night with $2 or $3 shipping to Canada and it's already been shipped. Maybe it's a "mobile" versus "desktop" thing (I see the crazy shipping fee on the desktop now).


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Hello Folks,

Out of curiosity... This is the Sabia:







Sabia is one Bird that is really common here in Brazil and sing a lot! This is a really good name for an earbud.



I think that the next bud should be called Curio:


----------



## nick n (Jan 7, 2019)

Carrow said:


> Anyone able to hook me up with a pair of Sabia V6s? Rholupat out of stock! Shipping to Ireland of course.



Only other place that I know of, it's where I got all mine.
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/223309835850?ViewItem=&item=223309835850

BTW  _the seller I messaged got back to me and said a couple days and they will have some *Kube V1* up._
I'll link when ready, but I need my different colours first   .
 They said black are hard to come by, so it might possibly be blue, orange and white, but we will see.
Don't let the colours dissuade you, it's the sound we are after ( me anyhow )


----------



## mbwilson111

nick n said:


> Only other place that I know of, it's where I got all mine.
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/223309835850?ViewItem=&item=223309835850
> 
> BTW  _the seller I messaged got back to me and said a couple days and they will have some *Kube V1* up._
> ...



I think the orange would be fun even though I never wear orange clothing   I hope it will be an ebay link so I can order.


----------



## nick n

Yes Ebay. 
I stick to that myself also.
As someone else mentioned to me, the orange is always a good theft deterrent.


----------



## HungryPanda

nick n said:


> Yes Ebay.
> I stick to that myself also.
> As someone else mentioned to me, the orange is always a good theft deterrent.


 Also looks ok in an industrial enviroment


----------



## Willber

HungryPanda said:


> Also looks ok in an industrial enviroment


And a US prison.


----------



## Willber (Jan 7, 2019)

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> Actually I think I'll stick with the 1.0s for the time being.  Sounds like they are pretty nice buds too.  If you happen to have the EMX500S and/or the RY4S UE how would you say they compare? (oh, I see them both listed in your sig so you do have them.  Excellent... )


I posted a comparison a short while ago, you might be able to find it. In short, I prefer the SL 1.0 to the other two as it has most of the best aspects of both of them as well as excelling in other areas. They are my go-to phones out of all I own regardless of price.

BTW, if you miss out on the 1.0+ this time you might not get another chance...


----------



## purplesun

Willber said:


> And a US prison.



Now I am intrigued. You not bigging this up, are you?

What earbuds are these?


----------



## Willber

purplesun said:


> Now I am intrigued. You not bigging this up, are you?
> 
> What earbuds are these?


Orange ones in general - goes with the jumpsuits!


----------



## nick n (Jan 8, 2019)

waynes world said:


> Thanks! We'll see if they come close to the RY4S's or Sabia V6's!



Please let me know waynesworld.  I found a listing that's easier than  Ali wierdness for the 1.0, though a bit pricier.
Sure hard to keep track of things in this thread so many names and variations of them.
For instance  trying to find out what the variations on the K's Ling stuff are, with what has been  or will be phased out, and various sonics  is hard.


----------



## purplesun

Willber said:


> Orange ones in general - goes with the jumpsuits!


Serve me right for asking; this must be what  a 2-year-old feels like learning lanugages.
I will just treat some of the posts here like social media; I don't understand & probably don't want to know.


----------



## j4100

I was listening to my FAAEAL Snow Lotus 64Ohms 2.5mm trrs buds for the first time last night. I was playing this album - http://store.balkansky.bg/album/orenda - and Wow! What an out of the head experience. Great sound, right out of the tin. I haven't even tried any foams.


----------



## subwoof3r

I'm pretty sure that difference between Snow Lotus 1.0 and 1.0+ is just a story of differently modded MX500 shells.
I don't think they have different drivers.

Anyway, I should receive my 1.0 in the next few days (I hope)  can't wait to compare with my yet best EMX500 DIY mod (which are now the only earbuds I'm listening everyday).


----------



## DAndrew

Shameless plug, ZoomFred is up for sale here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wts-cypherus-zoomfred.897203/


----------



## Carrow

nick n said:


> Only other place that I know of, it's where I got all mine.
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/223309835850?ViewItem=&item=223309835850
> 
> BTW  _the seller I messaged got back to me and said a couple days and they will have some *Kube V1* up._
> ...



Couple of dollars cheaper than Rholupat even with shipping  Thanks!


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

waynes world said:


> I ordered it on my phone last night with $2 or $3 shipping to Canada and it's already been shipped. Maybe it's a "mobile" versus "desktop" thing (I see the crazy shipping fee on the desktop now).



hmmm, nope.  everywhere I look shows $70 shipping including the app. Weird.  i sent them a message.  you sure you ordered the 1.0+?


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Hello Folks,

Only to inform that the right driver of my TY Hi-Z HP-650 650Ohm is dead with less than 20h of playing time. I'm shocked. Spent $100 in one thing like this. OMG. I will think 100x more in buying expensive buds. Problably I will not buy anything expensive anymore.


----------



## nxnje

Marcos Fontana said:


> Hello Folks,
> 
> Only to inform that the right driver of my TY Hi-Z HP-650 650Ohm is dead with less than 20h of playing time. I'm shocked. Spent $100 in one thing like this. OMG. I will think 100x more in buying expensive buds. Problably I will not buy anything expensive anymore.


Sorry to hear this.
I know now you're angry i would have been too.
But we all know china is not well known for top quality control.
Anyway, i agree when u speak about expensive buds.
There's a limit where going up is risky and not worth it.. i think nowadays you can be good with a 60$ earbud without being so far from a 100$ one.
Anyway, try to contact the seller, he may help you out.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

nxnje said:


> Sorry to hear this.
> I know now you're angry i would have been too.
> But we all know china is not well known for top quality control.
> Anyway, i agree when u speak about expensive buds.
> ...


Let's see what Penon will say. I will keep you informed.


----------



## DBaldock9

Marcos Fontana said:


> Hello Folks,
> 
> Only to inform that the right driver of my TY Hi-Z HP-650 650Ohm is dead with less than 20h of playing time. I'm shocked. Spent $100 in one thing like this. OMG. I will think 100x more in buying expensive buds. Problably I will not buy anything expensive anymore.



Have you popped the cover off of the shell, and verified that it's an open driver voice coil (using an Ohmmeter), and not just a problem with the wire or plug?


----------



## nxnje

DBaldock9 said:


> Have you popped the cover off of the shell, and verified that it's an open driver voice coil (using an Ohmmeter), and not just a problem with the wire or plug?


Maybe better not to open it and wait for Penon audio for the answer.
He should remain in the condition that he is in now.
Headphone arrived and he used them normally.
They could think you've opened it and damaged it.. or at least, that's my 2$.
I would wait and then try to diy if they don't help.


----------



## DBaldock9

nxnje said:


> Maybe better not to open it and wait for Penon audio for the answer.
> He should remain in the condition that he is in now.
> Headphone arrived and he used them normally.
> They could think you've opened it and damaged it.. or at least, that's my 2$.
> I would wait and then try to diy if they don't help.



True.  If they're covered by a warranty, then it would be good to wait and see what Penon will do.


----------



## seanc6441

Marcos Fontana said:


> Hello Folks,
> 
> Only to inform that the right driver of my TY Hi-Z HP-650 650Ohm is dead with less than 20h of playing time. I'm shocked. Spent $100 in one thing like this. OMG. I will think 100x more in buying expensive buds. Problably I will not buy anything expensive anymore.


This is my concern too with TOTL earbuds, we need better warranty protection to buy with confidence because earbuds failure is quite common.

Imagine saving up $300+ for your end game earbud only for it to fail one month later...

I hope penon can help you out!


----------



## waynes world

atmosfearz said:


> I was crying to seller to give me one and 2 weeks later... Сoincidence? Don't think so)



Good work!



nick n said:


> Please let me know waynesworld.  I found a listing that's easier than  Ali wierdness for the 1.0, though a bit pricier.
> Sure hard to keep track of things in this thread so many names and variations of them.
> For instance  trying to find out what the variations on the K's Ling stuff are, with what has been  or will be phased out, and various sonics  is hard.



Yes, I gave up on not being confused a long time ago lol. I just remember there being a fuss about the 1+'s sounding great and not being available any more, so I snagged them, but I don't really know what to expect. 

It will be interesting to see how they compare with my other Faaeal's (Monk orig clone, Snow Lotus 2, Datura X) let alone the likes of the ry4s, sabia v6, kubes etc. 

Anyway, I love all of these budget buds - they satisfy both my ears and my PID (Purchase Impulse Disorder) without breaking the bank


----------



## Marcos Fontana

DBaldock9 said:


> True.  If they're covered by a warranty, then it would be good to wait and see what Penon will do.


Lets see if Penon has any warranty. I bought it in November. It's impossible to be a wire problem because I only use it at home in my desk. I have many earbuds and to say the truth, I never saw anything that stopped working like that. I used it In december twice, without any problem. When I plugged it today, no sound came from the right driver.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

seanc6441 said:


> This is my concern too with TOTL earbuds, we need better warranty protection to buy with confidence because earbuds failure is quite common.
> 
> Imagine saving up $300+ for your end game earbud only for it to fail one month later...
> 
> I hope penon can help you out!


Yes, yesterday I bought the ZoomFred Pro. If I saw that my 650 was with a problem, I probably would have given up buying it. I already spent around $1000 with Penon buds and other things. Let's see...


----------



## Danneq

Marcos Fontana said:


> Yes, yesterday I bought the ZoomFred Pro. If I saw that my 650 was with a problem, I probably would have given up buying it. I already spent around $1000 with Penon buds and other things. Let's see...



Herry has got a small but faithful circle of customers, so I think that if there was a problem with your ZoomFred you could send it to him to have it fixed free of charge (my guess from discussions with Herry). But you would have to pay shipping both ways, though...


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Danneq said:


> Herry has got a small but faithful circle of customers, so I think that if there was a problem with your ZoomFred you could send it to him to have it fixed free of charge (my guess from discussions with Herry). But you would have to pay shipping both ways, though...


At least it's comforting.


----------



## j4100

waynes world said:


> ...and my PID (Purchase Impulse Disorder)...



Fantastic! Are you a doctor? That's what I have


----------



## DAndrew

Danneq said:


> Herry has got a small but faithful circle of customers, so I think that if there was a problem with your ZoomFred you could send it to him to have it fixed free of charge (my guess from discussions with Herry). But you would have to pay shipping both ways, though...



Repairs are not free of charge, you would have to pay for the parts, and it's not going to be a true repair, he will send a new pair of headphones as he glues the housings shut making it impossible to open without damaging the drivers inside


----------



## waynes world

j4100 said:


> Fantastic! Are you a doctor? That's what I have



Yes I am. Make an appointment. Here's my office:
https://www.aliexpress.com


----------



## waynes world

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> hmmm, nope.  everywhere I look shows $70 shipping including the app. Weird.  i sent them a message.  you sure you ordered the 1.0+?



I think so:





Interesting that it appears to be dutch though. When I click on the link, it takes me to the below link (with the ridiculous shipping amount):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FAA...arbuds-Commemorative-Edition/32966966924.html

I checked on my phone now, and it also takes me there.

I thought that I'd better double check my visa account, and thankfully it is correct (after taking exchange into consideration):




So, I don't know why I got lucky, or why they are not providing the usual shipping fee now.


----------



## jasonhpchu

Itching for some new earbuds.
I like my old MX 375, I find the Monk a bit plain, so I do enjoy a bit more bass.
I don't like how the foam wears out overtime, but I also don't like IEM, so thinking if there are any with silicone sleeve that poke just a bit in, but not air tight, similar to apple's.
Any suggestions?


----------



## waynes world

jasonhpchu said:


> Itching for some new earbuds.
> I like my old MX 375, I find the Monk a bit plain, so I do enjoy a bit more bass.
> I don't like how the foam wears out overtime, but I also don't like IEM, so thinking if there are any with silicone sleeve that poke just a bit in, but not air tight, similar to apple's.
> Any suggestions?



For little money, the RY4S (ue cable) or the Sabia Experimental V6. Both have ample bass (the latter has more). Addicted to both!


----------



## creaturekyle (Jan 8, 2019)

Hi all,

Finally received the Faaeal Narcissus 2.0 and have to say I'm a little disappointed when comparing with the Snow-Lotus 1.0.

Although these sound incredible, the bass is more recessed than the Snow-Lotus 1.0 and mids are pushed forward.  This is a little bit more of the classic Sennheiser sound, and probably more of an "audiophile" sound, as bass has no chance of overwhelming the mids or highs.  I wish I still had my Sennheiser 598's to compare, because these sound like what I remember from the 598's.  Bass is present, but not emphasized, mids are clearly the star of the show and are warm and detailed, and highs have clarity but are relatively rolled off (no sharpness or sibilance whatsoever).  They sound great, resolution is amazing, especially at this price point, but bass just doesn't have the same impact as the Snow-Lotus 1.0.  At first impression they might be a little smoother overall, very laid back.  I much prefer the cable from the Snow-Lotus 1.0 as well, as the Narcissus has the same cable as the Snow-Lotus 2.0.

If this had been my first Faaeal earbud I would have been floored, but I was hoping for the same bass presence and am a little let down.  If the Snow-Lotus is too bassy for you, go for the Narcissus.  Otherwise, stick with the Snow-Lotus.


----------



## purplesun

Marcos Fontana said:


> Hello Folks,
> Only to inform that the right driver of my TY Hi-Z HP-650 650Ohm is dead with less than 20h of playing time. I'm shocked. Spent $100 in one thing like this. OMG. I will think 100x more in buying expensive buds. Problably I will not buy anything expensive anymore.



Sad to hear that. My guess is it's probably a driver winding failure; a high resistance driver will have very thin gauge wires that's fragile to produce. For a much cheaper bud failure, the seller offered to send me a replacement bud if I email them video or jpeg proof of failure. Did not take up their offer and tried fixing it myself. But with your expensive buds, you will have to take that route as the special driver will be almost impossible to procure separately.


----------



## purplesun

waynes world said:


> Anyway, I love all of these budget buds - they satisfy both my ears and my PID (Purchase Impulse Disorder) without breaking the bank



Have you gone for the group meetings yet? Apparently, the higher your headfi post count the closer you are seated to the therapist.
Number of years on headfi does not count for diddly squat, that's why I refuse to go!


----------



## waynes world

purplesun said:


> Have you gone for the group meetings yet? Apparently, the higher your headfi post count the closer you are seated to the therapist.
> Number of years on headfi does not count for diddly squat, that's why I refuse to go!



I've only got about 11000 posts, so I'm still sitting near the back of the room


----------



## rahmish

Marcos Fontana said:


> Lets see if Penon has any warranty. I bought it in November. It's impossible to be a wire problem because I only use it at home in my desk. I have many earbuds and to say the truth, I never saw anything that stopped working like that. I used it In december twice, without any problem. When I plugged it today, no sound came from the right driver.


I had the same problem with my TY HI-Z 150s 2.5, asked Penon and he said that all his buds have 6 months warranty,  I send it back and he fixed it, so I think you will need just send them back


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 8, 2019)

Marcos Fontana said:


> Lets see if Penon has any warranty. I bought it in November. It's impossible to be a wire problem because I only use it at home in my desk. I have many earbuds and to say the truth, I never saw anything that stopped working like that. I used it In december twice, without any problem. When I plugged it today, no sound came from the right driver.


Usually my earbud driver starts to rattle and then I know it's either a simple puff of air to remove any debris or it's a slowly dieing driver 

It's really 50/50 as to which way it will go!


jasonhpchu said:


> Itching for some new earbuds.
> I like my old MX 375, I find the Monk a bit plain, so I do enjoy a bit more bass.
> I don't like how the foam wears out overtime, but I also don't like IEM, so thinking if there are any with silicone sleeve that poke just a bit in, but not air tight, similar to apple's.
> Any suggestions?


Willsound mk2 and the 100 for 1$ pack of foams on aliexpress.

Just search this thread for 'aliexpress foams' and you see the link as we have posted it like 50 times 

That way you dont have to worry about failing foams, they are super cheap and replaceable.


----------



## iron2k

seanc6441 said:


> Usually my earbud driver starts to rattle and then I know it's either a simple puff of air to remove any debris or it's a slowly dieing driver
> 
> It's really 50/50 as to which way it will go!
> 
> ...


Ali Foams:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...p-Ear-Pads-Cover-Replacement/32790634729.html


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 8, 2019)

rahmish said:


> I had the same problem with my TY HI-Z 150s 2.5, asked Penon and he said that all his buds have 6 months warranty,  I send it back and he fixed it, so I think you will need just send them back


The problem is the answer might change depending on the price of the bud...

That's why warranties have to be concrete and in writing somewhere. Not heresay.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jan 9, 2019)

jasonhpchu said:


> Itching for some new earbuds.
> I like my old MX 375, I find the Monk a bit plain, so I do enjoy a bit more bass.
> I don't like how the foam wears out overtime, but I also don't like IEM, so thinking if there are any with silicone sleeve that poke just a bit in, but not air tight, similar to apple's.
> Any suggestions?



I ordered these a week ago to try out:
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/OIWCELq

Dunno if they'll fit, still a few weeks out. They may also need trimming if they cover vents/ports of whatever shell they fit on.


----------



## rkw (Jan 8, 2019)

jasonhpchu said:


> if there are any with silicone sleeve that poke just a bit in, but not air tight, similar to apple's. Any suggestions?


Here are a few:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4pc...-Headset-Earbuds-Earplug-Ear/32846206132.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-P...Covers-Earbuds-Pads-Cushions/32950428501.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4-P...Covers-Earbuds-Pads-Cushions/32896617423.html


----------



## kw8910

Enjoying these VE monk summer and fall editions. Both use high quality cables ($120 ea when purchased by themselves) but very different ergonomically. Blue pure silver among the softest/least microphonic I’ve  ever used and the shining cable is the opposite; stiff and very microphonic. Both produce beautiful & detailed sound though, with the shining copper/fall edition reaching a bit deeper bass with its larger drivers.


----------



## ClieOS

Masya Pro Custom Edition, got it from Penon.


----------



## drey101

Hi, I don't have experience with earbuds (been using mostly headphones or iems), but they seem quite interesting and I'd like to know more.

Is there any fundamental sound signature differences for earbuds to iems (especially in the budget space)? If I were to compare KZ's offerings (which tend to be V shaped) in the less than 20 USD range with earbuds from the same price range, what differences should I expect?

Say the FAAEAL Snow Lotus 2.0 (or 1.0+) or Moondrop Nameless Plus compared to the KZ ZSN or ES4?


----------



## subwoof3r

kw8910 said:


> Both use high quality cables ($120 ea when purchased by themselves) but very different ergonomically. Blue pure silver among the softest/least microphonic I’ve  ever used


Good job!  this pure blue cable from VE is the one I really want to buy for my yet best EMX500 DIY project, but a bit expensive  not sure that sound quality will much change between a silver plated and pure silver anyway.


----------



## subwoof3r

ClieOS said:


> Masya Pro Custom Edition, got it from Penon.


Nice! some quick impressions?


----------



## assassin10000 (Jan 9, 2019)

j4100 said:


> > Qian 39 = 16.3mm
> > Qian 69 = 16.8mm
> > Seahf AWK-F150C = 16.8mm
> > **** PT15 = 16.35mm
> ...





j4100 said:


> The Heavenly Sounds Genesis and King Interlude, both Willsound Mk1 and 2, ABnormal Duotres, ELi Vajiac, and Earbud Thailand Black Lion are all MX500 shells and measured 16.9mm, though the Lion was 16.8mm. Shell batch size probably varies slightly. I think all of the others I have are probably MX500 shells as well.



A couple more outside dimensions.

PT25: 16.0mm x 17.0mm (at widest angle, directly across opening is 16.7mm, approx. 15mm wide/thick).

ACG (& Ti7): 15.75mm (5.35mm rim width, overall 15.45mm wide/thick).



Oh and my pretty old Sony EDR-M828: 17.05mm x 18.00mm


----------



## CasstardPie

Warranty concerns is why I don't have any other TOTL earbuds besides my ZOE. I know that I can trust that VE will honor warranty and assist if I have issues but I've not had good experiences with customer service from quite a few vendors



subwoof3r said:


> Good job!  this pure blue cable from VE is the one I really want to buy for my yet best EMX500 DIY project, but a bit expensive  not sure that sound quality will much change between a silver plated and pure silver anyway.



I find the Ocean cable to be of good quality, I feel like it does change the sound of my ZOE quite a bit, to me it becomes cleaner and the bass feels less muddy, compared to stock


----------



## RobinFood (Jan 9, 2019)

I got the RY4S UE cable version for a while now, and just wanted to add my thoughts, comparing it to my most used earbud at the moment, the Willsound MK2.

I got it during the 11.11 sale, and it got here at the beginning of December. I used it for a week almost constantly, and then mostly put back the MK2 and forgot about it until tonight, when I pulled it out again to see what was bothering me so much about it.

It has a nice punchy sub-bass, and no mid-bass bloat. This gives it a nice punchy bass that adds weight to instruments that need it without hindering the clarity. I feel it has more sub-bass than the MK2, but less overall bass, but it is probably just a perceived effect due to less distractions in the sub bass. As a result, the imaging is less fuzzy on the RY4S, but everything sounds smaller, like the instruments are less heavy. There is less weight on the instruments on the RY4S than on the MK2.

The mids are quite recessed. I originally found the mids on the MK2 recessed, coming from very mid-centric IEMs, but the RY4S takes it up a level. The voices sound farther away, and while they still sound clear, they definitely don't sound as detailed as the MK2. Some instruments that I hear clearly on the MK2 appear very faintly on the RY4S. This also affects the timber, which is what bothers me the most. The mids on the RY4S sometimes sound "plastic-y"...I don't know how else to put it, but sometimes it doesn't sound like a guitar, but more like a keyboard playing a guitar, if that makes sense.

The highs are less well extended on the RY4S than on the MK2. Some air is missing. That being said, there is plenty of detail there, cymbals sound correct, and it never gets piercing. The MK2 sometimes gets up a little high, but I do have to say that sibilance doesn't bother me, and I am kind of a masochist when it comes to highs.

Overall, it sounds like I am being negative towards the RY4S, but really, it is only because of how amazing the MK2 makes everything sound. The imaging is very holographic on the RY4S, and other than the mids weird timber on some songs, and a lack of air, I think that the RY4S does a lot of things very well. The bass is very nice, and one of it's best attributes.

I also think that the RY4S look and feel really amazing. They really feel premium. The cable is beautiful and doesn't tangle. The plug is a really nice size and fits really well. It is really beautiful. It looks much nicer and more refined than the DIY style and feel of the MK2. One thing I noted though is that the plastic on the shells of the MK2 seem better, they seem thicker and less brittle.

I think I would recommend the RY4S to a friend who wants to try a nice earbud without spending too much, but for anyone with a pair of earbuds over 50$, I don't think they are worth it.


----------



## wskl (Jan 9, 2019)

I've been listening to the Monk Plus with SPC cable for the past week and I think they are rather good.  The SPC cable does make quite a difference, compared to the standard Monk Plus, the bass is much tighter sounding, the mids are less warm and lean towards a more neutral tonality, more detailed too, particularly in the micro details, I can definitely hear extra things in the music which I normally do not hear on the standard Monk Plus, treble is about the same.  Soundstage width and depth is on par, but due to the cleaner nature of the SPC version, I find the separation to be much improved.

I love the transparent shells but the cable could be better, with the standard Monk Plus the cable straightens out after a week, but the SPC cable retains the kinks.

Overall, the signature is the same mould as something like the **** PT15 and NiceHCK EB2, i.e. clean and detailed but less bright than those 2 and less peaky.  EB2 however does sound clearer and has more articulate mids though.  Very good earbud IMHO, I can recommend it.


----------



## mbwilson111

drey101 said:


> Is there any fundamental sound signature differences for earbuds to iems (especially in the budget space)?



Just as with iems, buds are available with many different signatures.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 9, 2019)

Which foams are currently most recommended these days? Please share your experience and current preference.

I am finding myself using black and the thinner whites as the reds tend to be too thick for my ears and muffled sounding (thinking on donut'ing them so see if there is an audible improvement though the fit will still be an issue).


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 9, 2019)

drey101 said:


> Hi, I don't have experience with earbuds (been using mostly headphones or iems), but they seem quite interesting and I'd like to know more.
> 
> Is there any fundamental sound signature differences for earbuds to iems (especially in the budget space)? If I were to compare KZ's offerings (which tend to be V shaped) in the less than 20 USD range with earbuds from the same price range, what differences should I expect?
> 
> Say the FAAEAL Snow Lotus 2.0 (or 1.0+) or Moondrop Nameless Plus compared to the KZ ZSN or ES4?


Less sub bass quantity (no seal like in IEMs). More open spacious soundstage.

To use headphones as an example, think closed back with leather pads (IEM) vs open back with velour pads (Earbud).


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 9, 2019)

Received the K's LBB today (super fast shipping!).

Super early impressions

The good: Excellent mids and treble balance. Vocals come forward with detail and excellent timbre. Imaging is crisp and accurate, SS is wide enough, great space. Treble seems crisp and well refined with some sparkle but not bright or boosted in any way. Bass is tight.

The bad: The bass doesn't have a lot of punch in the mid bass or quantity in the sub bass. It's got just enough to balance the signature but not enough to add weight to the low end. The low mids could use slightly more heft, although the very limited bass impact could be clouding my judgement on that.

Overall I think this is better than the Nicehck EB2, which it will probably be compared to.

The really bad: as soon as I tried them out the right driver started to rattle and distort at certain frequencies. I'm afraid this is another earbud to add to the list of failing in QC. Will need to get it replaced.


----------



## creaturekyle

WoodyLuvr said:


> Which foams are currently most recommended these days? Please share your experience and current preference.
> 
> I am finding myself using black and the thinner whites as the reds tend to be too thick for my ears and muffled sounding (thinking on donut'ing them so see if there is an audible improvement though the fit will still be an issue).



I'd also like to know which foams people are using!  I love the foams that come with the Faaeal earbuds I've ordered, much better than the VE Monk Plus foams, and I prefer full foams over donuts.  Anyone have recommendations?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 9, 2019)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Which foams are currently most recommended these days? Please share your experience and current preference.
> 
> I am finding myself using black and the thinner whites as the reds tend to be too thick for my ears and muffled sounding (thinking on donut'ing them so see if there is an audible improvement though the fit will still be an issue).





creaturekyle said:


> I'd also like to know which foams people are using!  I love the foams that come with the Faaeal earbuds I've ordered, much better than the VE Monk Plus foams, and I prefer full foams over donuts.  Anyone have recommendations?


Like pads on headphones, there's no universally best foam for all earbuds.

I find each earbud responds best to different foams depending on the sound signature and fit.

With that in mind, I tend to use these as my go-to when testing new foams:

- Full black foams (specifically the ones that look more pourous/transparent than the other full foams)

- Hiegi Full foams (fairly dense and consistent in quality)

- Aliexpress thin foam (very pourous, tames treble slightly. Great transparency of sound.)

- VE or Hiegi thick donuts (VE are slightly thicker and warmer sounding. Great for adding soundstage (driver further from ear) and works well for smaller shell earbuds that are very bright.

- Aliexpress assortment of full foams in various colours (this pack has some unique foams including thick but transparent full foams and some extra thin but dense full foams)

Some notes:

I rarely buy or use regular donuts. I find the opening is usually too small and if I need donuts I can make them out if full foams easily and decide on how big the opening is myself. On ocasion I will use them with some earbuds but usually I look for other alternatives.

The original VE thin foams are the most transparent sounding and barely touch the sound sig of the earbud so it's almost like listening without foams. The new ve thins however... They are thicker and I find no matter which earbud I use them on they destroy the precision of the imaging. I don't know why this happens and it seems illogical. My only guess is that the foam matieral is more reflective of sound somehow. I really dislike the new VE thin foams for that reason. But I do like how they are very pourous but medium-thick so it adds some bass over most other thin foams.

I usually mod my foams to adjust the sound sig to my liking. So I'm not usually using just one foam or stock foams on any of my earbuds. But I always test all the basic stock foams first to see where I should start and which the earbud works best with.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

Noticed the shipping to Canada had dropped considerably on the Snow-Lotus 1.0+ so I ordered a set.


----------



## tronth

As of 2019, is there something better that the R4YS at that 10 euros price point? maybe the Qian 69?


----------



## BrunoC

tronth said:


> As of 2019, is there something better that the R4YS at that 10 euros price point? maybe the Qian 69?



EMX500, EMX500-s, Snow Lotus 1.0+


----------



## ClieOS

subwoof3r said:


> Nice! some quick impressions?



Pretty much the same sound as regular Masya Pro, which is a fuller, more forwarded, brighter sound when compared to the old Masya. I won't say it is a upgrade over the original, but more of a change of sound signature. Where the original is moee laid back, the new one is more energetic/aggressive.


----------



## Carrow

Elibuds Sabia V6 Experimental set otw thanks to @nick n!


----------



## tronth

Carrow said:


> Elibuds Sabia V6 Experimental set otw thanks to @nick n!


where can I buy one of those?


----------



## Carrow

tronth said:


> where can I buy one of those?



Over here


----------



## tvou88

subwoof3r said:


> I'm pretty sure that difference between Snow Lotus 1.0 and 1.0+ is just a story of differently modded MX500 shells.
> I don't think they have different drivers.
> 
> Anyway, I should receive my 1.0 in the next few days (I hope)  can't wait to compare with my yet best EMX500 DIY mod (which are now the only earbuds I'm listening everyday).



This is reply to my question from official Faaeal store: c/p

Hi,sir,many thanks for your kindly reply and support. The Snow-lotus's sound is different with Iris. The Snow-lotus have not more bass, it is a human voice earbuds. And the 1.0's driver is same with 1.0+, but the 2.0 is different. 


Thanks.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Jan 10, 2019)

I really like the treble on my old TY Hi-Z HP-32 v1. The treble sounds so clean, extended and dare I say, bright? But to these old ears I can appreciate a little brightness to add a little air and excitement to my listening session, and the HP-32 has what I like.

I was going to order another one, (v2 now), but then I considered an upgrade. What would be a clear step up for under $60, or even way less...  or so...


----------



## waynes world

tvou88 said:


> This is reply to my question from official Faaeal store: c/p
> 
> Hi,sir,many thanks for your kindly reply and support. The Snow-lotus's sound is different with Iris. The Snow-lotus have not more bass, it is a human voice earbuds. And the 1.0's driver is same with 1.0+, but the 2.0 is different.
> Thanks.



So does that tell us how or if they sound different?


----------



## FastAndClean

Why all earbuds have such a high distortion measurements in the bass area?
they all are more than 10% THD


----------



## seanc6441

FastAndClean said:


> Why all earbuds have such a high distortion measurements in the bass area?
> they all are more than 10% THD


Where are you getting the measurements?

Which earbuds are we talking about exactly. I'd love to see detailed measurements taken like that for earbuds.


----------



## FastAndClean

seanc6441 said:


> Where are you getting the measurements?
> 
> Which earbuds are we talking about exactly. I'd love to see detailed measurements taken like that for earbuds.


NICEHCK EBX
https://blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn...wDate=&isShowPopularPosts=false&from=postView


----------



## FastAndClean (Jan 10, 2019)

Rose Mojito
https://blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn...wDate=&isShowPopularPosts=false&from=postView
ucotech es p1
https://blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn...yNo=&viewDate=&isShowPopularPosts=false&from=


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 10, 2019)

FastAndClean said:


> NICEHCK EBX
> https://blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn...wDate=&isShowPopularPosts=false&from=postView


Wow that's a really nice website and I can just translate to english and understand it easily enough!

Yes the Mojito really does sound that murderous. If you had a source with crazy high OI it might sound much better if im reading that impedance chart right?

Seems like the mojito needs a high shelf filter of like 10 db after 2khz... Although I think that seems exaggerated. I can put a high shelf filter of -2db (or maybe 4db if foamless) and it sounds so smooth and balanced. I wish mojito sounded like that stock...

Many earbuds are tuned to push lots of low end to compensate for seal (maybe too far for these small drivers?) maybe this is what leads to these results of very high THD?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 10, 2019)

@FastAndClean

Weird thing is though the mojito measurements while the general signature shown seems accurate enough, the scale does seems abit OTT.

Simply putting a - 2 or 3db high shelf (i guess it depends on the foams you are using) works absolute wonders for its balance. Basically removes all harshness and sibilance but keeps the sound beautifully crisp and brings forward the vocals to a natural position.




Also reduced bass around 100hz by 1 db and it's surprisingly effect in cleaning up the bass and also giving the illusion of a deeper (well, slightly more linear) bass response.

I prefer not to use EQ and just use foams to mod earbuds in most cases because then I can run the bit perfect mode, and easily use the earbuds in any app with the same sound sig. But the mojito absolutely needs it...


----------



## tvou88

waynes world said:


> So does that tell us how or if they sound different?




Point is: Drivers is the same 1.0 or 1.0+...


----------



## ClieOS (Jan 11, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> @FastAndClean
> 
> Weird thing is though the mojito measurements while the general signature shown seems accurate enough, the scale does seems abit OTT.
> ...



Earbuds are notorious difficult to measure and correlate to real life usage - we all know how fit (including positioning, foam/foamless, various type of foams, etc) can have great effect on how an earbud sound to the individual ear. Yet they tend not to show as much an effect on measurement. I think it has something to do with most measurement rig being optimized for measuring IEM. While it is useful for earbuds measurement to a degree, I don't think it is as direct a translation to SQ as it is for IEM.


----------



## seanc6441

@ClieOS 

Yes I think that's definitely the case. It's still a great tool to have to see a general sound signature.


----------



## subwoof3r

tvou88 said:


> The Snow-lotus's sound is different with Iris





waynes world said:


> So does that tell us how or if they sound different?


Interesting; now we only need to know what they means by "Iris".
If it's the shells modding, then I was 100% right


----------



## tvou88

subwoof3r said:


> Interesting; now we only need to know what they means by "Iris".
> If it's the shells modding, then I was 100% right


Iris are entry level 5-6$ model earbuds with different driver. Sounds more like 1.0 but with less extension in sub bass. Bass is ok, mids are not recesed, and treble are not detailed like on SL 1.0/ 1.0+.
2.0 are like Rosemary but with roll-off in bass and a spike in the upper mids. Very clear soundig...
Rosemary's are best sounding Faaeal buds to my ears


----------



## jogawag (Jan 11, 2019)

waynes world said:


> So does that tell us how or if they sound different?





tvou88 said:


> Point is: Drivers is the same 1.0 or 1.0+...



You have not answer the question.
Do you have hear both of them? If you do not have hear both of them, you should not answer the question.

Please read below to get better answer of difference.
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4479781/all


----------



## tvou88

jogawag said:


> You have not answer the question.
> Do you have hear both of them? If you do not have hear both of them, you should not answer the question.
> 
> Please read below to get better answer.
> https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4479781/all


Have both. Driver is the same. There is only cable difference (for believers). To my ears, nothing different in sound signature.


----------



## jogawag (Jan 11, 2019)

tvou88 said:


> Have both. Driver is the same. There is only cable difference (for believers). To my ears, nothing different in sound signature.


If so, be sure to write it from the beginning so confusing!

But in your opinion all the Earbuds seem to have the same sound if the drivers are the same?
In my experience, the sound will change depending on the presence or absence of silver plating on the cable.

Is there simply a problem with your hearing?


----------



## mika91 (Jan 11, 2019)

Hi,

I have EBX phones since last summer: I'm impressed with sound quality, but not so much with its fit. (I guess they are too large, and weight is not well balanced)
In comparaison, I have tested nicehck graphene (mx760), and they fit perfectly to my ears !

Is there any EBX alternative, with both great sound, fit, mmcx and <60$ ?
Linsoul DTM A8 seems to be the best challenger, but lack of reviews.
AK PT25 maybe?
Any suggestion?

Thanks


----------



## tvou88

jogawag said:


> If so, be sure to write it from the beginning so confusing!
> 
> But in your opinion all the Earbuds seem to have the same sound if the drivers are the same?
> In my experience, the sound will change depending on the presence or absence of silver plating on the cable?
> ...


If I talking about SL 1 and 1+, there is nothing about "ALL" earbuds. You have a problem reading with understanding.. My ears are OK.
For years in hi-fi, studio equipment etc. now, only difference in sound because of cables is in treble. I don't know why, but difference is there..
Btw... yeah, I have 5 ears, one is on my butt....


----------



## jogawag (Jan 12, 2019)

tvou88 said:


> If I talking about SL 1 and 1+, there is nothing about "ALL" earbuds. You have a problem reading with understanding.. My ears are OK.
> For years in hi-fi, studio equipment etc. now, only difference in sound because of cables is in treble. I don't know why, but difference is there..
> Btw... yeah, I have 5 ears, one is on my butt....



Aw,
To say "only difference in sound because of cables is in treble." You changed the opinion that there is a difference in sound! ! !
It is fun to hear the strange opinions of people with five ears.

Edit:
I described it more clearly.


----------



## tvou88

jogawag said:


> Gee
> To say that "only difference in sound is cables in in treble.", your opinion changed to that there is a difference in sound.
> It is fun to hear the strange opinions of people with five ears.


Thanks dud!


----------



## atmosfearz

I've ordered a lot of cheap earbuds. For now I got SR2 and RY4S UE. RY4S for me is much better looks and sounds.


----------



## subwoof3r (Jan 11, 2019)

Ok, just received my pair (in 10 days) of *Snow Lotus 1.0* today!  (not the "+" version then)
Once again, I'm very impressed by the sound procuded for such low cost!
For the first OOTB quick listen (with ali thin foams), they have already excellent mids and highs overall presentation, much details, great soundstage, etc. The only issue to me is the bass, they lack a bit of impact and extension in subbass area, but I will try to fix this with some DIY stuffs (so not worried ^^).

They are very easy to open, and after carefully checking them, I can see that soldered wires is not really greatly made (I'm even doing much better now in my DIY earbuds), but I can recognize some kind of silver solder there so it's cool. Also, in ths box it has been written Litz wires, but it's just an overall very generic/basic OFC cable, so it's just a great marketing effect but a fake information. Anyway here also, no problem as I will recable them (even if the cable is not so bad, as it feels nicely soft).
Finally, shells have a very tiny hole on the bass port (not so much on both sides, but its here), and physical aspect of drivers are not the classic EMX500 ones, but slightly different for the printed circuit board.

Can't wait tonight to begin some DIY sttuffs with them 
Cheers'


----------



## exavolt

mika91 said:


> I have EBX phones since last summer: I'm impressed with sound quality, but not so much with its fit. (I guess they are too large, and weight is not well balanced)


Have you tried wearing the cable over ears?


----------



## mika91

exavolt said:


> Have you tried wearing the cable over ears?


yes, I did.
But I'm not a fan of over ears, and I don't feel it better this way.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Updating the case of TY HI-Z 650. Sent to Penon, spent $30 to send it from Brazil


----------



## exavolt

mika91 said:


> yes, I did.
> But I'm not a fan of over ears, and I don't feel it better this way.


I received OURART ACG few days ago hoping for a sidegrade from the EBX. The fit is better and it doesn't feel big nor heavy. Overall sound is cleaner and somewhat has better clarity. Imaging and soundstage is comparable. But when I tried to listen to some of my favorite hard rock tracks, the bass line (upper bass / low mid) seems way behind others. For that reason, it won't replace my EBX.


----------



## waynes world

mika91 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have EBX phones since last summer: I'm impressed with sound quality, but not so much with its fit. (I guess they are too large, and weight is not well balanced)
> In comparaison, I have tested nicehck graphene (mx760), and they fit perfectly to my ears !
> ...



Svara L (32ohm). I'm not sure about the fit (I'd have to compare them to the mx760's), but they are comfortable to me, are mmcx, are around $60, and they sound great.


----------



## mika91

waynes world said:


> Svara L (32ohm). I'm not sure about the fit (I'd have to compare them to the mx760's), but they are comfortable to me, are mmcx, are around $60, and they sound great.


The form factor looks like EBX, with an off-center mmcx connector: so I guess the fit should be very ebx like, and better over ears.
But I may be wrong ^^


----------



## waynes world

mika91 said:


> The form factor looks like EBX, with an off-center mmcx connector: so I guess the fit should be very ebx like, and better over ears.
> But I may be wrong ^^



Yes, the cable that they come with is "over ears", so they are intended to be worn that way. But I also enjoy wearing them "down" with a different cable.


----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> Svara L (32ohm). I'm not sure about the fit (I'd have to compare them to the mx760's), but they are comfortable to me, are mmcx, are around $60, and they sound great.





mika91 said:


> The form factor looks like EBX, with an off-center mmcx connector: so I guess the fit should be very ebx like, and better over ears.
> But I may be wrong ^^





waynes world said:


> Yes, the cable that they come with is "over ears", so they are intended to be worn that way. But I also enjoy wearing them "down" with a different cable.



For my ears, the Svara-L gets a better seal, and is more comfortable.
I listened to my Svara-L yesterday at work, and I'm using my EBX at work today.


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> I listened to my Svara-L yesterday at work, and I'm using my EBX at work today.



"How to put a smile on your face while at work" by DBaldock9


----------



## mika91 (Jan 11, 2019)

DBaldock9 said:


> For my ears, the Svara-L gets a better seal, and is more comfortable.
> I listened to my Svara-L yesterday at work, and I'm using my EBX at work today.


Sound-wise, the svara are a match with ebx ?
How would you judge fit/comfort, between your svara, ebx and VE asura ? (all weared "down")


----------



## DBaldock9

mika91 said:


> Sound-wise, the svara are a match with ebx ?
> How would you judge fit/comfort, between your scara, ebx and VE asura ? (all weared "down")



I'm probably not the best person to ask - since I've never actually worn any of my earbud, or earphone, cables down (except for the Panasonic earbuds I used with a Sony Discman, nearly 30 years ago).


----------



## mbwilson111

DBaldock9 said:


> I'm probably not the best person to ask - since I've never actually worn any of my earbud, or earphone, cables down (except for the Panasonic earbuds I used with a Sony Discman, nearly 30 years ago).



I cannot visualize where the earbud stem would be if you were to wear a long stemmed earbud up over ear.  I like to pull down on the stem part when wearing them down ... it seems to secure them.  I have problems fitting buds that  do not have much to hold on to.


----------



## DBaldock9

mbwilson111 said:


> I cannot visualize where the earbud stem would be if you were to wear a long stemmed earbud up over ear.  I like to pull down on the stem part when wearing them down ... it seems to secure them.  I have problems fitting buds that  do not have much to hold on to.



The stem of MX500 / MX760 shells ends just at the front edge of my ear, where the cable can curve smoothly over the top and down the back.


----------



## phthora

My extended family ended up getting me a Snow Lotus 1.0+ and MX760 Graphene (the old one) for Xmas! I am in earbud heaven over here. It's hard to believe the quality of sound you get for the price with these...


----------



## DBaldock9

mika91 said:


> Sound-wise, the svara are a match with ebx ?
> How would you judge fit/comfort, between your scara, ebx and VE asura ? (all weared "down")



And, regarding the sound - the EBX may have a bit more low Bass, but since they don't fit my ears as well as the Svara-L, I'd say the Svara-L (32Ω) are my favorite MMCX earbuds.
The VE Asura 2.0 (tethered 2.5mm TRRS cable) have better Midrange for vocals, but don't have as much Bass impact as the other two.
My favorite earbuds with tethered 2.5mm TRRS cable is the Wong Kuan Wae Blur hALF/hALF, but they are quite a bit more expensive.
And, oddly enough - a set of Vido that Wong Kuan Wae modified / re-cabled (3.5mm TRS) sound nearly as good as the Blur.
When Lee posted that the VE Zen 2.0 was being discontinued at the end of last year, I ordered a set of Zoe (which cost even more than the Blur), but I haven't received / heard them, yet.


----------



## Willber (Jan 11, 2019)

My DP100 turned up - I got the silver one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...iFi-In-Ear-Earphone-HD-Sound/32831005293.html







As you can see, they appear to use the same shell as the Graphene which is slightly smaller than the typical MX500 and is very comfortable with the supplied foams.

Sound-wise they are prominently v-shaped (I use EQ so that's not a problem for me) with impressive extension at both ends of the FR. The lows are tight and punchy and the highs are sparkly with little sibilance. Vocals are warm and natural.

They are not quite as spacious as my SL 1.0 (plenty of width and depth, though), but with excellent separation and imaging there is great clarity.

Also the construction is good and the cable seems of high quality. I like them a lot.


----------



## mika91 (Jan 11, 2019)

What a detailed answer, thanks!

Maybe another solution would be to make my own erabuds: keep the EBX cable, take off the driver, put it on another more confortable and compatible down wearing shell, and add an mmcx connector.

A cool project, but I guess any high-end earbuds sound is a delicate mix of both its driver and shell (same as hifi speakers)


----------



## waynes world

phthora said:


> My extended family ended up getting me a Snow Lotus 1.0+ and MX760 Graphene (the old one) for Xmas! I am in earbud heaven over here. It's hard to believe the quality of sound you get for the price with these...



You mean the $29 old graphenes? I still miss mine.


----------



## phthora

waynes world said:


> You mean the $29 old graphenes? I still miss mine.



Those're the ones! They are fantastic. Very vibrant, big sound. I can see why these were a hit. The 1.0+ is quite good too.


----------



## waynes world

phthora said:


> Those're the ones! They are fantastic. Very vibrant, big sound. I can see why these were a hit. The 1.0+ is quite good too.



Cool! I used them as my "sleeping" buds. Not only did they sound fantastic, but they were not too thick so they were fairly comfortable between my head and the pillow. They lasted a long time, but ultimately could not withstand the abuse. I'm currently sleeping with my RY4S's (he he), but they are a bit bulkier. Think I'll have to get the $29 graphenes again!


----------



## phthora

waynes world said:


> Cool! I used them as my "sleeping" buds. Not only did they sound fantastic, but they were not too thick so they were fairly comfortable between my head and the pillow. They lasted a long time, but ultimately could not withstand the abuse. I'm currently sleeping with my RY4S's (he he), but they are a bit bulkier. Think I'll have to get the $29 graphenes again!



Haha! I listened to mine in bed last night! Maybe I should stop or switch to Monks... I definitely don't want to break these.


----------



## waynes world

phthora said:


> Haha! I listened to mine in bed last night! Maybe I should stop or switch to Monks... I definitely don't want to break these.



They lasted a very long time, so they are tough. But I understand the dilemma. I'd probably risk it again, because I like to have a big smile on my face when I'm sleeping 

Having said that, if they were more than $29, I'd be thinking differently.


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> You mean the $29 old graphenes? I still miss mine.



I hope you did not throw it away.  You (or a friend) could easily recable it.


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> I hope you did not throw it away.  You (or a friend) could easily recable it.



Not me! But I do have a buddy with the skittles 
(not mentioning any names <cough> @nick n <cough>)


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Not me! But I do have a buddy with the skittles
> (not mentioning any names <cough> @nick n <cough>)



You can find some nice looking inexpensive cables on aliexpress.   Time to order a couple...just in case someone will help you


----------



## golov17

"*rose_technic:* We have already determined the name of this product: Martini . it will come soon ."


----------



## Willber (Jan 11, 2019)

Hey, @rahmish, I see you have the Graphene and the DP100 I posted about earlier. Am I correct in that they are the same shells? Also, how do they compare with each other in sound? Thanks.


----------



## mbwilson111

golov17 said:


> "*rose_technic:* We have already determined the name of this product: Martini . it will come soon ."



Beautiful!  They look too expensive for me though.


----------



## rahmish

Willber said:


> Hey, @rahmish, I see you have the Graphene and the DP100. Am I correct in that they are the same shells? Also, how do they compare with each other in sound? Thanks.


Yeah, they have a same shell and sounds pretty much the same, IMO, graphenes just looks nicer and have better cable, but now you can buy dp100 with different, white cable, I have black one which is just ordinary earbud cable, a bit stiff...


----------



## Willber (Jan 11, 2019)

rahmish said:


> Yeah, they have a same shell and sounds pretty much the same, IMO, graphenes just looks nicer and have better cable, but now you can buy dp100 with different, white cable, I have black one which is just ordinary earbud cable, a bit stiff...


I got the silver one which I posted about here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2592#post-14712132

It is a really nice cable, flexible and seems good quality. I've been using them all day and they are very impressive. A bargain at $10 if they compare at all to the Graphenes (which I didn't get round to buying).


----------



## rahmish

Willber said:


> I got the silver one which I posted about here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2592#post-14712132
> 
> It is a really nice cable, flexible and seems good quality. I've been using them all day and they are very impressive. A bargain at $10 if they compare at all to the Graphenes (which I didn't get round to buying).


Yeah, they are really good, I even thinking to buy white cable version, like how it looks!


----------



## Willber (Jan 11, 2019)

rahmish said:


> Yeah, they are really good, I even thinking to buy white cable version, like how it looks!


I must admit I was first attracted to them by the silver and orange bling!







But I'm very glad I was.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 11, 2019)

golov17 said:


> "*rose_technic:* We have already determined the name of this product: Martini . it will come soon ."


Concept models? First 'silver' one looks phenomenal. Double bass tubes, very open front venting and smooth shell design looking good to me. I really like the design.

So this is a different product to the rumoured mojito 'pro' right?

Is it TOTL? Hmm


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 11, 2019)

Willber said:


> I must admit I was first attracted to them by the silver and orange bling!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Now I want one!  You are a bad influence on me.


----------



## artpiggo

I think that my first spending would be that little cute rose martini. Love that aiwa-like Tube style.


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> Now I want one!  You are a bad influence on me.


Pretty, aren't they? Sound good, too.


----------



## bobeau (Jan 11, 2019)

Just a quick note about the Snow Lotus 1.0 - I found a seller on Amazon last weekend, ordered on Sunday, arrived last Wednesday.

They do sound rather good - a little thick down low, not terribly extended at the top and bottom, but all-in-all a nice entry hifi listen.  Lovely tonality and midrange, probably compete well with something like the KSC75s that I used to have.  Really extraordinary for the price and they totally fit the bill for something that doesn't leak but let's in outside noise and can be easily driven straight from an iPhone.  They do take a healthy amount of power to drive, maybe 80% of my HD58x.

On Monday my Toneking TO600s arrive, looking forward to see how they compare.


----------



## assassin10000

exavolt said:


> I received OURART ACG few days ago hoping for a sidegrade from the EBX. The fit is better and it doesn't feel big nor heavy. Overall sound is cleaner and somewhat has better clarity. Imaging and soundstage is comparable. But when I tried to listen to some of my favorite hard rock tracks, the bass line (upper bass / low mid) seems way behind others. For that reason, it won't replace my EBX.



I just got mine as well 3 days ago. 

Unfortunately, I'm unlucky on this one, one bud was almost dead ootb. At first I could briefly get sound from the bad one if I shook it or tapped it with a finger, but that stopped quickly. Tried switching cables and no dice.

Today I tried the cable on my other mmcx buds and the right side is dead. 

So bad cable and 1 bad bud. Trying to work it out with the seller on ebay. He wants me to ship the bad bud back, but with tracking its just over half the cost of these.


----------



## exavolt

assassin10000 said:


> I just got mine as well 3 days ago.
> 
> Unfortunately, I'm unlucky on this one, one bud was almost dead ootb. At first I could briefly get sound from the bad one if I shook it or tapped it with a finger, but that stopped quickly. Tried switching cables and no dice.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear that. To be fair, the cable is rather flimsy. Mine came perfect but the cable snapped when I was trying to detach the connector from the bud; now I know why people prefer 2pin connectors. Right now, I am using T2's cable with it.


----------



## exavolt (Jan 12, 2019)

The ACG grew on me and I must admit that it's a great buds.

First of all, I am a headphone burn-in / break-in skeptic; I personally notice some changes to some phones after burn ins, but some (limited) experiments with actual measuring tools prove that it's a myth.

When I received the ACG, it was bloated muddy mess. The mess was pretty obvious as I came from Kanas which I listened to the most, recently. I even thought that they might installed the wrong drivers into the buds.

So I let it play some musics for hours in the last few days.

Today I put some good listening to it. I am not sure which was burned in, the ACG or my brain, but it now shines quite brightly. All areas are tightened. Bass is punchy, treble is well extended, and mids / vocal is unveiled. Even the bass lines are more present; not bad at all, but I personally want more. Imaging is impressive with three dimensional space. Soundstage is narrower compared to EBX. And yeah, the upper mids / lower treble is quite forward which makes it bright.

edit: note that I am using T2's cable because I broke the original cable.


----------



## assassin10000

exavolt said:


> Sorry to hear that. To be fair, the cable is rather flimsy. Mine came perfect but the cable snapped when I was trying to detach the connector from the bud; now I know why people prefer 2pin connectors. Right now, I am using T2's cable with it.



Yeah. These are probably the tightest mmcx connectors I've come across. 

I've had no issues using the 'fingernail method' to detatch them. Wedge fingernails in the gap to basically wedge the mmcx connection open, no stress on the cables and less stress on the connectors.


----------



## snip3r77

jogawag said:


> FAAEAL Snow-lotus 1.0+/1.0 Plus Blue Hifi Earphone 64 Ohm Earbuds Commemorative Edition Limited Sale ONLY 100 PCS
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32966966924.html


Only blue??


----------



## HungryPanda

Yes you have to be careful removing mmcx connectors. On my BGVP DX3's one side was so tight it ripped the socket out of the housing. Luckily I could repair it.


----------



## tayo15 (Jan 12, 2019)

In regards to the Mx760 graphene is there a difference between the $14 to $34 ones besides price point?


----------



## subwoof3r (Jan 12, 2019)

Another note about my Snow Lotus 1.0 (and after some hours of burning), I definitely appreciate the mids and highs, which sounds near TOTL to me. No sibilance nor harshness, just the right amount I would say. Vocals are excellent, no mid-bump detected.
The only issue is still the bass, while not anemic, they have presence but not so much.
So as promised, I have yesterday night my DIY try on them (recabled with 4 core silver plated and copper mixed, and a hole of 0.7mm on the bass port) and unfortunately bass remains almost the exact same. Looks like the mod of bass port works much better on EMX500 drivers).
Also I found soundstage to be finally very thin, but coherent and intimate globally.
As bass and subbass is important to me, my Snow Lotus 1.0 pair just finished dismantled for now (drivers, cable, shells), I might maybe assemble them again, but not sure. I will give them a try on a high quality full copper that I need to finish, but not sure it will make sound them better.

So to sum-up, if you guys are looking for one of the best budget available today for mids and highs (and depending on your music preference), this is the one


----------



## tayo15

Wait so are the dp100 and mx760 graphene the same earbud?


----------



## exavolt

golov17 said:


> "*rose_technic:* We have already determined the name of this product: Martini . it will come soon ."


Looking at their Instagram, it seems that the yellow and red were their initial designs. The chrome one is their latest design.

Also, they wrote in the comments that it'll come this summer. If it's a TOTL with TOTL price, might start saving now.


----------



## seanc6441

exavolt said:


> Looking at their Instagram, it seems that the yellow and red were their initial designs. The chrome one is their latest design.
> 
> Also, they wrote in the comments that it'll come this summer. If it's a TOTL with TOTL price, might start saving now.


Well the new one looks 100 times better. First two look like cheap buds in comparison.


----------



## mbwilson111

tayo15 said:


> In regards to the Mx760 graphene is there a difference between the $14 to $34 ones besides price point?



They are considered to be different versions with different sounds.  I only have the newer less expensive version but more people seemed to prefer the more expensive older version



tayo15 said:


> Wait so are the dp100 and mx760 graphene the same earbud?



Same shell.  I don't think many people have the dp100.  I have not seen any comparison saying that they are the same.



seanc6441 said:


> Well the new one looks 100 times better. First two look like cheap buds in comparison.



Haha... I like the red.   Not going to get it though.  I won't put a lot of money into such a small fragile thing.  I would be afraid to touch it.


----------



## drey101 (Jan 12, 2019)

After my last question here, and realizing how silly it was (thanks to those who answered!), I decided to try out some local diy earbuds based on mx 500 shells.

Turned out to be not so good as the fit was horrible for me as the bud was too big, and the SQ was way off coampred to any of my iems, even compared to my huawei usb c earbuds (which fit me nicely, and have a pretty clean sound, shaped like apple earpods).

So I went looking for something around the 15-20 usd range that's accessible locally (something like ebay) but not made locally and I found the FAAEAL Snow Lotus 2.0 (i like the look of the white), FAAEAL Datura-X, and Moondrop Nameless.

Are any of the above smaller than a regular mx500 shell? The three are available locally at quite similar prices, with the nameless being more expensive by just a little bit.


----------



## mbwilson111

nick n said:


> BTW _the seller I messaged got back to me and said a couple days and they will have some *Kube V1* up._
> I'll link when ready, but I need my different colours first



Hi, any news on this?  I want my orange Kube


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> Hi, any news on this?  I want my orange Kube



I have my Kube1's mainly hooked up to my TV system. They have a really great soundstage and are great for that application imo, but they are also wonderful for music. Very unique buds - and that's not even taking into consideration the whacky colors!


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> I have my Kube1's mainly hooked up to my TV system. They have a really great soundstage and are great for that application imo, but they are also wonderful for music. Very unique buds - and that's not even taking into consideration the whacky colors!



What color did you get?

For TV we only use our home theater set up.. have never listened with head gear.


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> What color did you get?
> 
> For TV we only use our home theater set up.. have never listened with head gear.



I have the black ones, but will be getting another pair of some whacky color when they are available.

With the TV thing, sometimes other people are around and not watching it, so I have to keep it to myself. And even when watching with others through the speakers, they don't like to listen to it nearly loud enough for my tastes, so I often augment with buds as indiscreetly as possible.


----------



## boneburglar

I personally love my Yincrow X6. Made me not want to touch my Monk+ ever again.


----------



## mbwilson111

boneburglar said:


> I personally love my Yincrow X6. Made me not want to touch my Monk+ ever again.




I like both... and others.   I have three different color of Monk+  (purple, coffee, and clear).


----------



## boneburglar

mbwilson111 said:


> I like both... and others.   I have three different color of Monk+  (purple, coffee, and clear).


I wouldn't call myself a basshead, but having the nice lowend of the X6 was actually pretty startling. Monk+ was just alright for me, but going back to it was hard.


----------



## bobeau (Jan 12, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> Another note about my Snow Lotus 1.0 (and after some hours of burning), I definitely appreciate the mids and highs, which sounds near TOTL to me. No sibilance nor harshness, just the right amount I would say. Vocals are excellent, no mid-bump detected.
> The only issue is still the bass, while not anemic, they have presence but not so much.



Interesting, coming from using KSE1200s as a daily driver (small bass bump over neutral), I'm coming from the impression that the bass is perhaps a bit too thick/wooly.  So I'd agree if we're talking about lack of definition (slam/texture) or the amount of sub-bass, but taken as a whole, I'd describe the overall tuning as slightly bass heavy.  I have maybe 3-4 hours listening them so far, haven't spent any time actually burning them in.


----------



## mbwilson111

boneburglar said:


> I wouldn't call myself a basshead, but having the nice lowend of the X6 was actually pretty startling. Monk+ was just alright for me, but going back to it was hard.



I actually enjoy different sound signatures so that is not a problem for me.  I just get into the music.  The Monks sound great with my singer-songwriter stuff.   

It is possible that I do not require as much bass as I do not listen to EDM.  However I do like some low sub bass when it exists.  This is a track that I use to check for that.  It goes very low... especially in a section starting around 2:27.


----------



## boneburglar

bobeau said:


> Interesting, coming from using KSE1200s as a daily driver (small bass bump over neutral), I'm coming from the impression that the bass is perhaps a bit too thick/wooly.  So I'd agree if we're talking about lack of definition (slam/texture) or the amount of sub-bass, but taken as a whole, I'd describe the overall tuning as slightly bass heavy.  I have maybe 3-4 hours listening them so far, haven't spent any time actually burning them in.


It's $12 tho, I'd hope that the KSE1200 is better hehe.


----------



## bobeau

boneburglar said:


> It's $12 tho, I'd hope that the KSE1200 is better hehe.



Ha for sure.  I didn't mean to compare a $10 earbud to a $2k headphone system, just saying against something that is an audiophile neutralish reference, it comes off bassy.  They're certainly not something I would suggest for bassheads though.


----------



## boneburglar

bobeau said:


> Ha for sure.  I didn't mean to compare a $10 earbud to a $2k headphone system, just saying against something that is an audiophile neutralish reference, it comes off bassy.  They're certainly not something I would suggest for bassheads though.


My bad, I meant I wasn't a basshead, but it has bass at least


----------



## nick n (Jan 12, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Hi, any news on this?  I want my orange Kube



I've also been waiting for word on the Kube v1. I even went to look and  figure out what colours I would need.
hahaa
however just got a message from the seller this morning they said they listed them, but  I still cannot see the listing. (^ good timing on your question )
Perhaps there is a slight delay.
I'll be sure to link it up right away when I get it.
Or waynesworld can link if it shows soon.

Rest assurred they said Orange    Blue, White , and Purple colours


----------



## Willber (Jan 12, 2019)

drey101 said:


> After my last question here, and realizing how silly it was (thanks to those who answered!), I decided to try out some local diy earbuds based on emx 500 shells.
> 
> Turned out to be not so good as the fit was horrible for me as the bud was too big, and the SQ was way off coampred to any of my iems, even compared to my huawei usb c earbuds (which fit me nicely, and have a pretty clean sound, shaped like apple earpods).
> 
> ...


The Snow Lotus uses the common MX500 shell. I don't have the others you mention but they use unique shells. I can't say what size they are, though.

These are some buds I bought recently that use slightly smaller shells:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...293.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.458b4c4dMfMio3
(Silver)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...867.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.458b4c4dMfMio3
(PK2 with brown cable)

Both sound very good to me, but hopefully others will have more suggestions.


----------



## bobeau

boneburglar said:


> My bad, I meant I wasn't a basshead, but it has bass at least



To be clear, I was talking about the Snow Lotus 1.0.  Haven't heard the Monk+, which by most accounts has less bass than the SL, nor the Yincrow (rebranded Vido?) which apparently has more.


----------



## jogawag

Willber said:


> The Snow Lotus uses the common MX500 shell. I don't have the others you mention but they use unique shells. I can't say what size they are, though.
> 
> These are some buds I bought recently that use slightly smaller shells:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...293.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.458b4c4dMfMio3
> ...



I strongly recommend to you "diy SR2 16ohms TPE wire" as smaller shells earbuds.
I think that this performance is comparable to SWD2+.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801646835.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801265552.html
Choice 2nd color on eigther page.
This need 1-200 hours burn-in.


----------



## Willber (Jan 12, 2019)

jogawag said:


> I strongly recommend to you "diy SR2 16ohms TPE wire" as smaller shells earbuds.
> I think that this performance is comparable to SWD2+.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801646835.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801265552.html
> ...


Thanks, but it's not me who is looking for new buds (although they do look interesting).


----------



## drey101

Willber said:


> The Snow Lotus uses the common MX500 shell. I don't have the others you mention but they use unique shells. I can't say what size they are, though.
> 
> These are some buds I bought recently that use slightly smaller shells:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...293.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.458b4c4dMfMio3
> ...


Thanks for the suggestions, I'll look for these locally!

I think the buds I had are MX500 not EMX500(didn't realize they were different), and I'll double check the size.


----------



## Carrow

Anyone want a pair of stock Vidos to try? I'm getting a modded version (Purist MMCX) from TuneOut Audio so I don't need the stock one anymore, I can send people in the UK or EU my stock pair just for the cost of shipping


----------



## snip3r77

Is snow lotus 1 plus a step up from ry4s UE and emx500s?


----------



## seanc6441

snip3r77 said:


> Is snow lotus 1 plus a step up from ry4s UE and emx500s?


As with most of the good budget earbuds it's probably just a sidegrade in terms of technicalities and the sound signature is personal preference.

Of course i have not heard the SL but I've heard emx500 ry4s vido etc and to say one is clearly 'better' than the others is a tough call.

I guess you could say which bud can stay closest to neutral is the 'best' but it's really a judgement call.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> As with most of the good budget earbuds it's probably just a sidegrade in terms of technicalities and the sound signature is personal preference.
> 
> Of course i have not heard the SL but I've heard emx500 ry4s vido etc and to say one is clearly 'better' than the others is a tough call.
> 
> I guess you could say which bud can stay closest to neutral is the 'best' but it's really a judgement call.



Exactamundo!


----------



## daid1

jogawag said:


> I strongly recommend to you "diy SR2 16ohms TPE wire" as smaller shells earbuds.
> I think that this performance is comparable to SWD2+.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801646835.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801265552.html
> ...



Wait, what I missed..? Comparable to SWD2+ that one at 300 dollars? I want it


----------



## jogawag (Jan 13, 2019)

daid1 said:


> Wait, what I missed..? Comparable to SWD2+ that one at 300 dollars? I want it


It has strong bass and wide sound stage.
Please try it.
Perhaps you can discount it to $13 by negotiation.


----------



## daid1

jogawag said:


> It has strong bass and wide sound stage.
> Please try it.
> Perhaps you can discount it to $13 by negotiation.



I'll do it, thanks for the info


----------



## exavolt

jogawag said:


> It has strong bass and wide sound stage.
> Please try it.
> Perhaps you can discount it to $13 by negotiation.


MUST. RESIST.


----------



## nick n (Jan 15, 2019)

_*Here we go, the Earkube / Kube V1 .*_
https://www.ebay.com/itm/223322310399?ul_noapp=true


_Get them while you can they are hard to come by_, and for this auction looks like only about 13 left across the various colours.
Maybe if these go and there is a demand we could see more, but no guarantees on that.
It was about a year I think between when I first found some and these now so...


Should anyone need further convincing, have a peek at *Redcarmoose*'s excellent-as-always review here.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-7-cubu-earbud.843190/

Plus the more recent few impressions by waynesworld and GREQ.

*IMPORTANT*
****There appears to be some discrepancy, with versions. it seems the  ones reviewed by Redcarmoose are not *identical *by exact name to these Kube V1, though I sure think they sound extremely close to the description.
Either way these are more than excellent  buds. Looking into details about branding . It is posssible, though no way to prove so far, that Redcarmoose's Cubu(s) were the version prior to  the V1????


Please read the follow up post here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2599#post-14718149

It'll get figured out . Even so the Kube V1  are great stuff.

================================================
Anyhow another excellent post to do with this is here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2601#post-14719343


----------



## mbwilson111

nick n said:


> _*Here we go, the Earkube / Kube V1 .*_
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/223322310399?ul_noapp=true
> 
> 
> ...




I ordered a purple and an orange for myself and a blue for my husband..


----------



## Willber

nick n said:


> _*Here we go, the Earkube / Kube V1 .*_
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/223322310399?ul_noapp=true


Two things putting me off:

1. The shipping cost
2. MX500 shell - do I need another one?

Hmm...


----------



## mbwilson111

The shipping cost is always more coming from there.


----------



## Willber (Jan 13, 2019)

But for the same money I can get the SWD2+ soundalikes, with the PK shell.
Cue mbwilson: "Get both."

I hate this place. How do I get banned?


----------



## mbwilson111

Get both.


----------



## Willber




----------



## nick n

2_. MX500 shell - do I need another one?_


what was that old expression again?


----------



## Willber (Jan 13, 2019)

*sigh*
Kube, orange.
*click*


----------



## jogawag (Jan 13, 2019)

Willber said:


> *sigh*
> Kube, orange.
> *click*


Get both.


----------



## Willber

jogawag said:


> Get both.


Oh ***!

Please remind me, how are the soundstage, clarity and imaging? (Signature doesn't worry me as I use EQ.)


----------



## jogawag

Willber said:


> Oh ***!
> 
> Please remind me, how are the soundstage, clarity and imaging? (Signature doesn't worry me as I use EQ.)


"diy SR2 16ohms TPE wire" has wide soundstage, great clarity and imaging.


----------



## Willber

jogawag said:


> "diy SR2 16ohms TPE wire" has wide soundstage, great clarity and imaging.


Thanks. I've just messaged the seller asking which option is best for my preferences. I'll see what he says before I decide.


----------



## purplesun (Jan 13, 2019)

Willber said:


> Oh ***!
> Please remind me, how are the soundstage, clarity and imaging? (Signature doesn't worry me as I use EQ.)



Immense soundstage!! Clarity so clear, you can hear the red angel on the extreme right whispering, "Don't worry about the money". While the white angel on extreme left admonishing, "This must be the last earbud". Imaging so perfect, you can discern the angle & speed of the slap delivered by your significant other when he/she found out you bought another earbud.


----------



## Willber

purplesun said:


> Immense soundstage!! Clarity so clear, you can hear the red angel on the extreme right whispering, "Don't worry about the money". While the white angel on extreme left admonishing, "This must be the last earbud". Imaging so perfect, you can discern the angle & speed of the slap delivered by your significant other when he/she found out you bought another earbud.



(KSC75 smiley - why is there no earbud one?)


----------



## waynes world

jogawag said:


> "diy SR2 16ohms TPE wire" has wide soundstage, great clarity and imaging.



At first I thought you were asking about the Kube1's, and I was going to quote this from @Redcarmoose 's review:


> *Sound-stage:*
> This is why we are here. The magic of each instrument and reverb effect feathering off into infinity right outside your ears. The playful way they do pan effects and high pitched effects way-way out of your head. Still everything is coherent and natural and in place.



But, I see that you are asking about those pesky SR2's that @jogawag keeps peddling 

I'll get them if you really like them. No pressure!


----------



## mochill

Ordered a kube in orange


----------



## jogawag (Jan 13, 2019)

waynes world said:


> At first I thought you were asking about the Kube1's, and I was going to quote this from @Redcarmoose 's review:
> 
> 
> But, I see that you are asking about those pesky SR2's that @jogawag keeps peddling
> ...



I do not want to recommend it to you specially.


----------



## waynes world

mochill said:


> Ordered a kube in orange



Lol - I thought about agent orange, but I just couldn't bring myself to do it. Good on you though! Soundwise I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## mochill

I will be comparing it to my tm9(yang) 


waynes world said:


> Lol - I thought about agent orange, but I just couldn't bring myself to do it. Good on you though! Soundwise I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## waynes world

jogawag said:


> I do not want to recommend it to you specially.



Perfect! I'm ordering 10 of them!


----------



## jogawag

waynes world said:


> Perfect! I'm ordering 10 of them!


So, I am ordering 10 of SVARA-L! (Though I already have one ...)


----------



## waynes world

@ClieOS, my buddy pointed out what you previously said this about the Yincrow RW-9's:



ClieOS said:


> Have this for a couple of days now. It can be sum'ed up as the "improved Yincrow X6", mainly you still get a slightly V-shaped sound from the X6, but with a better textured and forwarded midrange, making it the most balanced of all tuning in the whole Yincrow's line-up. In fact, I think I like it ever better then RW-777 - given it is actually cheaper than RW-777, I think Yincrow has gotten itself a winner here.



Still feel that way? For $44, they might be a gem.


----------



## waynes world

jogawag said:


> So, I am ordering 10 of SVARA-L! (Though I already have one ...)



I couldn't fault you for doing that! Seriously though, you have a pair of the 32ohm's? If so, how do you like them?


----------



## snip3r77

jogawag said:


> It has strong bass and wide sound stage.
> Please try it.
> Perhaps you can discount it to $13 by negotiation.


What is that pol


----------



## jogawag

waynes world said:


> I couldn't fault you for doing that! Seriously though, you have a pair of the 32ohm's? If so, how do you like them?


Perhaps I have Svara-L 115Ω, so I do not like its blurred mid sound...


----------



## jogawag

snip3r77 said:


> What is that pol



pol???



jogawag said:


> I strongly recommend to you "diy SR2 16ohms TPE wire" as smaller shells earbuds.
> I think that this performance is comparable to SWD2+.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801646835.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801265552.html
> ...


----------



## waynes world

jogawag said:


> Perhaps I have Svara-L 115Ω, so I do not like its blurred mid sound...



Yes, must be different beasts my friend. Mids are pristine with the 32ohm'ers.


----------



## ClieOS

waynes world said:


> Still feel that way? For $44, they might be a gem.



Yes, of course. It is indeed a gem.


----------



## chaiyuta

golov17 said:


> "*rose_technic:* We have already determined the name of this product: Martini . it will come soon ."



Thanks for sharing the latest news. The un-detachable version looks difficult to re-cable and the limited space of cable hole results to limited AWG-size of re-cable. While the detachable version seems to be MMCX socket. A bit disappointed that Rose don't utilizes 2-PIN socket instead. For my eyes, their design looks mediocre and I think It might be entry-to-mid level. Anyway, look forward to seeing the real product picture as well as their specs.


----------



## CheeseInTheSky

Hi guys, new here.
Recently got a bunch of earbuds due to this topic, got myself the Monk plus, Fengru DIY MX500S and the Vido's.
So far i actually like the cheapest of the bunch the most the Vido's due to the massive bass these things have, although i do notice im missing some details in the sound compared too the other buds.
The Monk sound the thinniest, and the MX500S right earbud starts to crack at higher volumes through my BTR1K, although they do sound pretty good.
Im waiting for DP100's and also ordered the Kube's mentioned above.

Also thinking of getting the Snow Lotus 1.0 Plus, however the cable seems kinda stiff and i dont know if its an upgrade when compared to the Vido's.


----------



## Willber (Jan 14, 2019)

CheeseInTheSky said:


> Hi guys, new here.
> Recently got a bunch of earbuds due to this topic, got myself the Monk plus, Fengru DIY MX500S and the Vido's.
> So far i actually like the cheapest of the bunch the most the Vido's due to the massive bass these things have, although i do notice im missing some details in the sound compared too the other buds.
> The Monk sound the thinniest, and the MX500S right earbud starts to crack at higher volumes through my BTR1K, although they do sound pretty good.
> ...


Hi, welcome to the forum. You have made a good start with those choices, they will help you to decide which direction you want to go in.

Regarding the Snow Lotus, I have the 1.0 and it is excellent (my favourite of all my earphones). Also the braided cable is very flexible and tangle-free. Here is a link:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIF...445.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3da24c4dZKZrZM

Edit: Although I should say that the SL 1.0 is less bassy than the Vido, it's more mid-centric. Great soundstage and detail, though.


----------



## subwoof3r

Willber said:


> Also the braided cable is very flexible and tangle-free


A agree, after all, the stock cable is not bad at all (I like its softness and flexibility, even if not the best I've ever seen).
I decided to resolder them yesterday with its original cable


----------



## CheeseInTheSky

Yeah the stock cable seems to be a lot more flexible for the Snow Lotus, stiff cables usually means they fall out of my ears easily when walking around.
Although i have no idea if the cable is the only difference between the + and non+ version.

Also i just noticed that the Plus version seems to be back in stock for the regular Snow Lotus listing, even cheaper than the "Commemorative Edition" listing.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jan 14, 2019)

nick n said:


> _*Here we go, the Earkube / Kube V1 .*_
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/223322310399?ul_noapp=true
> 
> 
> ...



Ok, hopefully I can make some sense of all this. The items shown on the Ebay site are the Kube 1. I have never purchased those nor have ever written a review of them. I have heard them and they are nice but not the “Cubu”.

Also if you look really, really close there is an almost microscopic “s” after the word “Cubu”.

Those you ordered I have never reviewed.



What I I do know is members have purchased these.
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kube-2.22577/

The big ones, Kube2






Kube 2 (AKA EK2 or EarKube 2)

Now the confusion is that the ones shown in the EBay listing were the first included with “The Kube” MP3 player, as a set, but then replaced with the big ones shown above.

Hope that adds clarification?


----------



## mbwilson111

Redcarmoose said:


> Ok, hopefully I can make some sense of all this. The items shown on the Ebay site are the Kube 1. I have never purchased those nor have ever written a review of them. I have heard them and they are nice but not the “Cubu”.
> 
> Also if you look really, really close there is an almost microscopic “s” after the word “Cubu”.
> 
> ...





Yeah, I knew when I ordered that the Kube V1 was the one I had heard about and wanted.  I also want a Kube 2 but cannot find a source.


----------



## Redcarmoose

mbwilson111 said:


> Yeah, I knew when I ordered that the Kube V1 was the one I had heard about and wanted.  I also want a Kube 2 but cannot find a source.



Enjoy!


----------



## mbwilson111

Redcarmoose said:


> Enjoy!



I will when they arrive

...but where can I get the Kube 2?  I have been searching...


----------



## Redcarmoose

They typically come together with this player, though here is a pair taken apart from the bundle. 

Though I must warn you, at times I have not received my merchandise from these style of stores on-line. To the point that I go out of my way not to use them. With that said here is a set. Priced about $8. 

https://www.google.co.id/amp/s/m.tokopedia.com/amp/adm-store-plus/earphone-kube-2-original-white


----------



## GREQ

Redcarmoose said:


> Ok, hopefully I can make some sense of all this. The items shown on the Ebay site are the Kube 1. I have never purchased those nor have ever written a review of them. I have heard them and they are nice but not the “Cubu”.
> 
> Also if you look really, really close there is an almost microscopic “s” after the word “Cubu”.
> 
> ...


Isn't the Kube (v1) just a re-branded identical product to the Cubus?
The two mp3 players and buds look identical and AFAIK are produced by the same company.
Should we not assume the buds are identical (regarding drivers/sound) too? 
Or rather, can someone confirm or deny this with 100% certainty?

I'm not stirring the pot here, I just want the truth to be known.


----------



## nick n (Jan 14, 2019)

I see the writing on your KUBE2 is also different though.
Your description of the Cubu(s) is extremely close to what I hear from the Kube v1 .
Same OEM perhaps, earlier?
 I am sure people will be happy and the Kube V1 stand on their own strengths regardless.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jan 14, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I will when they arrive
> 
> ...but where can I get the Kube 2?  I have been searching...



People are finding them, as photos prove.



                Post #7280




                Post #7289



GREQ said:


> Isn't the Kube (v1) just a re-branded identical product to the Cubus?
> The two mp3 players and buds look identical and AFAIK are produced by the same company.
> Should we not assume the buds are identical (regarding drivers/sound) too?
> Or rather, can someone confirm or deny this with 100% certainty?
> ...



Did you actually really read the post you quoted? They are different. That was the only reason I posted the post. If they were the same, it would be great. They do look close to the same and the V1 even comes in that silly army green. But again, sadly I must reiterate that I have purchased the Cubu “s” and listened to both side by side in a shop and could have purchased the V1. Though it does not sound the same,  or as good.

Edit: 
If people get the V1 and enjoy it that’s great. They are nice. They just are not the Cubu. If anyone can find the Cubu then that would be wonderful.


----------



## GREQ

Redcarmoose said:


> People are finding them, as photos prove.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So basically you can't give me 100% certainty.
That's all I wanted to hear.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jan 14, 2019)

GREQ said:


> So basically you can't give me 100% certainty.
> That's all I wanted to hear.



They sounded different to me. The shop I go to has ample amounts of the V1 still at this very moment. The Cubu is sold out. There is nothing wrong with V1 it just doesn’t sound like the Cubu.

But yes I’m not the manufacturer and I am not sure of the manufacture history if that’s what your getting at. But I have listened to numerous pairs back to back. Handfuls of the Cubu and handfuls of the V1.

Also I’m glad to see you actually found the bigger Kube 2. You must like them? So I’m not crazy liking them. Lol. The EK2 is the Kube 2.


----------



## GREQ

Redcarmoose said:


> They sounded different to me. The shop I go to has ample amounts of the V1 still at this very moment. The Cubu is sold out. There is nothing wrong with V1 it just doesn’t sound like the Cubu.
> 
> But yes I’m not the manufacturer and I am not sure of the manufacture history if that’s what your getting at. But I have listened to numerous pairs back to back. Handfuls of the Cubu and handfuls of the V1.
> 
> Also I’m glad to see you actually found the bigger Kube 2. You must like them? So I’m not crazy liking them. Lol.


I would love the kube2's a lot more if they would actually fit in my ear  it's just a little too big so bass response is extremely variable.
Ah, too bad the cubu is sold out, I would've liked to buy one, not just for listening but for measuring.


----------



## Redcarmoose

GREQ said:


> I would love the kube2's a lot more if they would actually fit in my ear  it's just a little too big so bass response is extremely variable.
> Ah, too bad the cubu is sold out, I would've liked to buy one, not just for listening but for measuring.



I still have two pairs. One perfect and one with a cable issue, which I will replace eventually. They are great and were my daily earbuds for months on end. They seemed to get better and better, but every once in a while one driver would start to distort. You had to tap them on something hard to dislodge it then all was well again. I have never had anything that acted that way. Have you tried multiple foamies on the Kube 2; like stacking them? To me the Kube 2 is best with super thick foam covers.


----------



## GREQ

Redcarmoose said:


> I still have two pairs. One perfect and one with a cable issue, which I will replace eventually. They are great and were my daily earbuds for months on end. They seemed to get better and better, but every once in a while one driver would start to distort. You had to tap them on something hard to dislodge it then all was well again. I have never had anything that acted that way. Have you tried multiple foamies on the Kube 2; like stacking them? To me the Kube 2 is best with super thick foam covers.


So far I have tried donuts, open-cell foam and dense foam on the kube2.
I havn't tried stacking... that would almost certainly make them FAR too big for my ears, but I'll give it a go, got nothing to lose by trying it... maybe it'll keep them in by friction, who knows.
I also prefer the dense foam for basically all buds. Gives the smoothest sound with deepest bass response, or perhaps the best seal.


----------



## lyrean (Jan 16, 2019)

Snow Lotus plus is available again in blue and silver color options: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIF...ic-Earphones-HIFI-Earbuds-DJ/32677773445.html

I ordered the silver one.

*Edit: The seller doesn't have Snow Lotus plus, only regular Snow Lotus.*

Also Winter Sale began on Aliexpress so you can get some discounts.


----------



## waynes world

CheeseInTheSky said:


> Hi guys, new here.
> Recently got a bunch of earbuds due to this topic, got myself the Monk plus, Fengru DIY MX500S and the Vido's.
> So far i actually like the cheapest of the bunch the most the Vido's due to the massive bass these things have, although i do notice im missing some details in the sound compared too the other buds.
> The Monk sound the thinniest, and the MX500S right earbud starts to crack at higher volumes through my BTR1K, although they do sound pretty good.
> ...



If you like bass, try the Sabia Experimental V6. They're great.




Redcarmoose said:


> They sounded different to me. The shop I go to has ample amounts of the V1 still at this very moment. The Cubu is sold out. There is nothing wrong with V1 it just doesn’t sound like the Cubu.
> 
> But yes I’m not the manufacturer and I am not sure of the manufacture history if that’s what your getting at. But I have listened to numerous pairs back to back. Handfuls of the Cubu and handfuls of the V1.
> 
> Also I’m glad to see you actually found the bigger Kube 2. You must like them? So I’m not crazy liking them. Lol. The EK2 is the Kube 2.



Very interesting! It would be nice to hear the Cubu some day.

I love both the Kube V1 and the Kube 2, but my preferences leans towards the SQ of the Kube V1. Also, the Kube 2's flat cable is a bit of a challenge for me. But they are both great.

Thanks for your reviews!


----------



## Redcarmoose

waynes world said:


> If you like bass, try the Sabia Experimental V6. They're great.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks, hope to give a little back to the community which has provided so much.


----------



## waynes world

cqtek said:


> Today I received the Yincrow RW-9 purchased here:
> 
> https://es.aliexpress.com/store/pro...arbud-Metal-Earphone/1825606_32869066191.html
> 
> ...





ClieOS said:


> Have this for a couple of days now. It can be sum'ed up as the "improved Yincrow X6", mainly you still get a slightly V-shaped sound from the X6, but with a better textured and forwarded midrange, making it the most balanced of all tuning in the whole Yincrow's line-up. In fact, I think I like it ever better then RW-777 - given it is actually cheaper than RW-777, I think Yincrow has gotten itself a winner here.





ClieOS said:


> Yes, of course. It is indeed a gem.



Thanks! They are now $18.98US. Done!


----------



## waynes world

nick n said:


> I am sure people will be happy and the Kube V1 stand on their own strengths regardless.



No doubt. The Kube V1's are awesome.


----------



## audio123 (Jan 15, 2019)

Review on the Rose Masya Pro. Enjoy reading!


----------



## DBaldock9

audio123 said:


> Review on the Rose Masya Pro. Enjoy reading!



Is that bottom set the ToneKing TO400s?


----------



## audio123

DBaldock9 said:


> Is that bottom set the ToneKing TO400s?


It is the TO400s!


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> I actually enjoy different sound signatures so that is not a problem for me.  I just get into the music.  The Monks sound great with my singer-songwriter stuff.
> 
> It is possible that I do not require as much bass as I do not listen to EDM.  However I do like some low sub bass when it exists.  This is a track that I use to check for that.  It goes very low... especially in a section starting around 2:27.




Found that on Tidal. Wow, that was a pleasure to listen to via the Svara L's - awesome music, and bass to die for. Sub-bass was tickling my amygdala


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Found that on Tidal. Wow, that was a pleasure to listen to via the Svara L's - awesome music, and bass to die for. Sub-bass was tickling my amygdala



I have owned that CD since its release.


----------



## nick n (Jan 14, 2019)

*In the interest of clarity: Some thoughts on the Cubu(s) and the KUBE v1 thing.*
 AAARGH  the oversight on the review vs the listing variance... it bothered me all morning.

I posted that up because what was said there seemed to  more or less correspond with what I hear.
 I realize they are not exactly identical between the two as Redcarmoose posted up about ( bad oversight there I forgot we spoke about that before... sigh ).

Low end =crazy big and good
Staging= can be off the charts often "surreal" as wayneworld put it somewhere.
One area  that may  not correspond exactly is the top end. It  seems  reading closely and considering it carefully the KubeV1 will have some  more added on the top end vs what i gather about the Cubu(s), but that  does not seem to get tiring over time.
Not crazy fatiguing and etchy-shrill  ( see my ideas about why this additional "change "may be the case below )

KubeV1 are awesome buds.
It seems even chinmie went to the trouble of a recable job on theirs, posted in an image a bit ago.
So good  after getting the first one last year i immediately went back and grabbed every one they had left to give out as gifts.
 I would not have repeatedly bothered the seller about getting more up for auction if I felt these were substandard .

=I get no brownie points, no freebies, no discount, nothing from the seller at all . I want to get more people's ears on these things.

_THOUGHTS ON THE TWO VERSIONS_

Cubu(s) and KUBE v1
It is my hunch that these  are from the same OEM/Manufacturer/and-or Company.

same coloured cable
similar colour variations
exact same strain relief "y" spliiter

similar stubbby small molded trs plug
same housings
simlar phonetics to the name
=It could very well be , and this is a total guess given all the above, that the Cubu(s) are the first earlier version made as I don't think they came bundled with a player(?)
=Kube V1 may be later versions, bundled with the MP3 player, but with some updated sonic tuning on the top end which ( another guess ) would obviously trickle it's effects down through the rest . Staging and lows sure seem to correspond reasonably judging by posted impressions ( as good as one can assume). It got me at first




SO
 Since the listing was oddly stalled from showing up in actual searches  within ebay search system and the link was basically only here for the day,
anyone who got these with the review posted as the  full-on reason they got them ( this listing only, as of Monday morning Jan 14 ),
tries them and feels they do not somewhat correspond to the general expectations ( impressive low end and often "surreal"staging ) as per reading the erroneously posted review,
*simply shoot me a PM within a day or two of trying them out and I have got you covered.Meaning specifically i will buy them off you.*
*I can use a few more spares to send out as gifts anyhow. *
*I bet very few members will bother though.*

*I welcome any further thoughts.  Obviously will have to wait for things to show up.*


----------



## Willber

nick n said:


> *In the interest of clarity: Some thoughts on the Cubu(s) and the KUBE v1 thing.*
> AAARGH  the oversight on the review vs the listing variance... it bothered me all morning.


Hey Nick, thanks for the gesture but I wouldn't sweat it too much. Every purchase has an element of risk and we are all big boys here, apart from a few exceptions!

Anyway, they're orange!


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> Hey Nick, thanks for the gesture but I wouldn't sweat it too much. Every purchase has an element of risk and we are all big boys here, apart from a few exceptions!
> 
> Anyway, they're orange!



I am not a big boy but I will be keeping my Kubes.

Looks like the seller found a few more blue and white ones,...so it is not too late to order.


----------



## waynes world

Willber said:


> Hey Nick, thanks for the gesture but I wouldn't sweat it too much. Every purchase has an element of risk and we are all big boys here, apart from a few exceptions!



I'm not sure how I feel about being called an exception! 

Seriously though, well said.


----------



## Willber (Jan 14, 2019)

Even though I was bullied into it, I'm looking forward to them now. 

BTW, I've spent more time with my DP100 today. They are really nice, especially if you prefer a slightly smaller shell.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 14, 2019)

Willber said:


> BTW, I've spent more time with my DP100 today. They are really nice, especially if you prefer a slightly smaller shell.



Ordered a DP100 today in white...because of you.    Also a white Vido just because I have never had a Vido...will be recabled.    We picked out some cool looking cables today and expect some others to arrive this week.


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> Ordered a DT100 today in white...because of you.    Also a white Vido just because I have never had a Vido...will be recabled.    We picked out some cool looking cables today and expect some others to arrive this week.


DP100?
Well-made and very natural sound. Soundstage isn't quite as big as the SL 1.0 but better than most and the imaging is good enough that they don't sound congested. Great for vocals and four-piece combos (are there still such things?). Amy Macdonald is sounding particularly good ATM. Oh, and they did well with your hippo song!


----------



## seanc6441

Willber said:


> DP100?
> Well-made and very natural sound. Soundstage isn't quite as big as the SL 1.0 but better than most and the imaging is good enough that they don't sound congested. Great for vocals and four-piece combos (are there still such things?). Amy Macdonald is sounding particularly good ATM. Oh, and they did well with your hippo song!


Have you heard the MX760 graphene (old or new). This isn't the same driver is it? It's the original design but is it the original beyer driver I wonder. And if so is the graphene a different driver just using the dp100 housing.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> DP100?
> Well-made and very natural sound. Soundstage isn't quite as big as the SL 1.0 but better than most and the imaging is good enough that they don't sound congested. Great for vocals and four-piece combos (are there still such things?). Amy Macdonald is sounding particularly good ATM. Oh, and they did well with your hippo song!




Cool.

Edited the typo.  You should see how tiny the text is in the reply box with this tablet.


----------



## Willber

seanc6441 said:


> Have you heard the MX760 graphene (old or new). This isn't the same driver is it? It's the original design but is it the original beyer driver I wonder. And if so is the graphene a different driver just using the dp100 housing.


No, I haven't heard either Graphene. Not sure about the driver in the DP100. The pictures of the black ones show Beyerdynamic on the shell but I don't know if that means anything. It isn't on the clear/silver ones that I've got.


----------



## seanc6441

Bought a snow lotus 1.0+ and in convo with the kube seller about getting combined shipping for two. Curious about how they will take to modding.


----------



## seanc6441

Willber said:


> No, I haven't heard either Graphene. Not sure about the driver in the DP100. The pictures of the black ones show Beyerdynamic on the shell but I don't know if that means anything. It isn't on the clear/silver ones that I've got.


Yeah not sure if it's original beyer or just the shell used with a different driver. Pretty sure the actuall sennheiser mx760 has a different shell anyway, more like an elongated mx500.


----------



## snip3r77

jogawag said:


> "diy SR2 16ohms TPE wire" has wide soundstage, great clarity and imaging.


Any review of this


----------



## snip3r77

seanc6441 said:


> Have you heard the MX760 graphene (old or new). This isn't the same driver is it? It's the original design but is it the original beyer driver I wonder. And if so is the graphene a different driver just using the dp100 housing.





seanc6441 said:


> Bought a snow lotus 1.0+ and in convo with the kube seller about getting combined shipping for two. Curious about how they will take to modding.


Faeel sell both?


----------



## jogawag

snip3r77 said:


> Any review of this



"diy SR2 16ohms TPE wire" has clear treble, strong deep bass and wide sound stage...
Sorry, writing review is not good at.
But you will be satisfied if you purchase this.
This is Earbuds I'm most using now.
(Attention: 100-200 hour burn-in is needed.)


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 14, 2019)

snip3r77 said:


> Faeel sell both?


Getting SL 1.0+ (silver shell) from the link provided a few pages back (from aliexpress).

Asking the seller on ebay of the Kube V1 for 2 buds in one case. Hoping he can combine for $8 shipping to make it more economical.


----------



## waynes world

The kube2 has a challenging cable that doesn't play nice with most shirt clips. But I just received my penon clips. Take that kube2!


----------



## nick n

Jeeze those clips are nicer than I thought.
I'll look around they have to be sold elsewhere also, as I am afraid an amp or something might fall into the Penon cart.
Appreciate the post and good images.


----------



## subwoof3r

Gonna order a Snow Lotus *1.0+* too, to see the differences between 1.0.
I'm curious.. (once again?) 
Thanks for the info


----------



## jogawag (Jan 15, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> Gonna order a Snow Lotus *1.0+* too, to see the differences between 1.0.
> I'm curious.. (once again?)
> Thanks for the info



The difference between SL plus and non-plus is written below.
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4479781/all

The sound of SL plus has turned somewhat higher on the whole, and the treble turned clear.
I thought SL's treble is too sweet and it is weak point for me, so this change is very satisfied.

If there is not the sound of difference between SL plus and non-plus and there is a person who says that it is the same sound signature, I think that he should use DIY MX500 of $2 for his entire life in order to save his money.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jan 15, 2019)

nick n said:


> *In the interest of clarity: Some thoughts on the Cubu(s) and the KUBE v1 thing.*
> AAARGH  the oversight on the review vs the listing variance... it bothered me all morning.
> 
> I posted that up because what was said there seemed to  more or less correspond with what I hear.
> ...



Well, I have always thought things simply work out for the best. This is a exciting hobby with all kinds of unexpected twists and turns, and that’s what is fun. My post yesterday originally was just to make a clarification about the V1. They are great and I’m glad people like them. I’m on the other side of the world over here, and at times it’s confusing trying to judge products as so much is not great, but other stuff is great, but looks the same. 

Much of our sound perception is psychological in judgment. So it takes a group at times to conferm what we personally think we value in a response from a $7 earbud. My two reviews were based on conclusions after doing side by side listens to the Edifier earbuds and Sennheiser MX500 from years ago. I thought the Cubu “s” and Kube2 were interesting and warranted reviews. After writing the reviews I kind of knew the earbuds would be difficult to find and somewhat of a mystery. Little did I know people would look for them a year later. Lol

The V1 is a great earbud and I hope people enjoy them. The Cubu and V1 do sound very close to the same. For whatever reason I thought they sounded just slightly different, but in a blind test I most likely could not distinguish between the two earbuds.


https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kube-2.22577/

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/cubu-earbud.22334/

Enjoy!


----------



## HungryPanda

My blue Snow Lotus 1.0 plus just turned up. That some fast shipping from China. Time to play


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> Asking the seller on ebay of the Kube V1 for 2 buds in one case. Hoping he can combine for $8 shipping to make it more economical.



I ordered a blue and a purple Kube at the same time... I was the first person to order as I had somehow managed to find the listing through google (ebay search would not work).  I did not know how many might sell while I was asleep so I did not want to wait for a reply to a message about shipping.  I just went ahead and put the order through. Those two were shipped three hours after I ordered them (before anyone else had ordered).  They were each shipped separately.

Later I ordered an orange one.. just could not resist.  That one had not shipped yet.  I think he was suddenly overwhelmed with so many orders all in one day.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> I ordered a blue and a purple Kube at the same time... I was the first person to order as I had somehow managed to find the listing through google (ebay search would not work).  I did not know how many might sell while I was asleep so I did not want to wait for a reply to a message about shipping.  I just went ahead and put the order through. Those two were shipped three hours after I ordered them (before anyone else had ordered).  They were each shipped separately.
> 
> Later I ordered an orange one.. just could not resist.  That one had not shipped yet.  I think he was suddenly overwhelmed with so many orders all in one day.


I know the feeling. I don't buy earbuds everyday like yourself but when I do I usually splurge out xD

I just bought a new SL1.0+, a used but half working Campfred 2 for $40 (hoping they can be fixed), a VE Asura 2.0 and monk plus used. I'm trying to aquire two portable headphones and now im waiting to hear back from the kube seller about those buds...

Send help fast!


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> Send help fast!



I will give you a push.  He only has 3 blue and 7 white left!   Just order them.

The purple and orange are gone.  There was only one black that sold right after I ordered my purple and blue.  I purposely did not take the black because I felt like it might have been there for someone else.

He deifinitely added more to the listing when they started going so fast.  Looking at the list of what has been sold, if he had not added more there would only be one white and one blue left.


----------



## subwoof3r

Ok, *1.0+* ordered! 
Hope to receive it in 10 days (like my 1.0)


----------



## alias71

Can anyone suggest a good (but not too expensive) 2.5mm TRRS MMCX cable for the Svara L?
Thanks!


----------



## DBaldock9

alias71 said:


> Can anyone suggest a good (but not too expensive) 2.5mm TRRS MMCX cable for the Svara L?
> Thanks!



You might take a look at this thread - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low-end-cheap-generic-otherwise-bang-for-buck-cable-thread.891911/


----------



## Carrow

Recently sold my stock Vidos to @GREQ and my VE Asura and Monk Plus Coffee sets to @seanc6441 (for modding purposes, very interested in seeing what he does with those)

On the way: JVC Victor (transparent red housing!), Docomo (white ones), Sabia V6 Experimental, Zen LL, Imperial Audio Paradise. Nice nice.


----------



## bobeau (Jan 15, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> My blue Snow Lotus 1.0 plus just turned up. That some fast shipping from China. Time to play



Unfortunately my Toneking TO600 was supposed to arrive yesterday (was on truck for delivery) and then were just lost?  USPS has an exception saying it may take longer to deliver than anticipated...

Regarding the SL, for those in the US I got mine w/ Prime shipping from Amazon for $10

https://www.amazon.com/FAAEAL-Snow-...547566653&sr=8-1&keywords=earphone+snow-lotus


----------



## mbwilson111

Carrow said:


> Recently sold my stock Vidos to @GREQ and my VE Asura and Monk Plus Coffee sets to @seanc6441 (for modding purposes, very interested in seeing what he does with those)
> 
> On the way: JVC Victor (transparent red housing!), Docomo (white ones), Sabia V6 Experimental, Zen LL, Imperial Audio Paradise. Nice nice.



How did you find docomos?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 15, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> How did you find docomos?


I second this question. I'd love the stock standard docomos so I can have a pk bud again. I have the pk sr2 but need to burn it in. But I also want that warm bright tilt offered from my cygnus (which is a docomo driver with upgrade cable I believe) so I'd love a docomo bud... Or two.

@Carrow

Also how on earth did you get the JVC Victor. That's all people can talk about on earbuds anonymous lately lol. They must be good buds.


----------



## KevDzn

1. Japan VICTOR
link: https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=4592549&hl=

2. Docomo Variant
link : https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=4595690&hl=

You can enquire if they have postage to your region.


----------



## seanc6441

KevDzn said:


> 1. Japan VICTOR
> link: https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=4592549&hl=
> 
> 2. Docomo Variant
> ...


Thanks very much. I registered and will PM the seller when I can for Victor and Docomo buds


----------



## KevDzn

seanc6441 said:


> Thanks very much. I registered and will PM the seller when I can for Victor and Docomo buds



If you're able to get it, remember to get extras coz they come with y-cable. I'm sure you will want to re-cable it.


----------



## Carrow

mbwilson111 said:


> How did you find docomos?





seanc6441 said:


> I second this question. I'd love the stock standard docomos so I can have a pk bud again. I have the pk sr2 but need to burn it in. But I also want that warm bright tilt offered from my cygnus (which is a docomo driver with upgrade cable I believe) so I'd love a docomo bud... Or two.
> 
> @Carrow
> 
> Also how on earth did you get the JVC Victor. That's all people can talk about on earbuds anonymous lately lol. They must be good buds.



Through Michelle Ong in EA


----------



## seanc6441

KevDzn said:


> If you're able to get it, remember to get extras coz they come with y-cable. I'm sure you will want to re-cable it.


What are the extras? You mean like recable?

I would want to do that myself. But if by extras mean sosomething else please do tell.

Btw, why are the JVC branded ones cheaper than the Victor branded ones. Do they sound different? Thanks


----------



## RuFrost (Jan 15, 2019)

*any comparison between bs1 official and to400s? and alike earbuds?) For example, Lyra Collection. (really seeking to try it!!!)*


----------



## Carrow (Jan 15, 2019)

I can never be sure if it's Yin-yoo or Yincrow we're not allowed discuss in this thread.  (or on HF anywhere) @RuFrost

edit: apparently it's Yin-yoo so you should edit your post to be on the safe side


----------



## waynes world

Redcarmoose said:


> The Cubu and V1 do sound very close to the same. For whatever reason I thought they sounded just slightly different, but in a blind test I most likely could not distinguish between the two earbuds.



Huh! Very interesting. Thanks for sharing that.


----------



## CyberGhost (Jan 15, 2019)

Does anybody know why there seems to be two versions of MusicMaker MrZ Tomahawk? There is one with the MusicMaker logo and then there is another with the Z in the middle.

One says Toneking the other Music Maker. These seem to be the same.












What are the differences, if any?

Also, what about MrZ Ting, how does that compare to Tomahawk? Chinese sites (Aliexpress) seem to comparing Tomahawk to MX 985, does it sound like 985s?


----------



## Willber

seanc6441 said:


> What are the extras?


I think by "get extras" he means get more than one set.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> I think by "get extras" he means get more than one set.



Yeah, in case you kill a driver during a recabling effort. It happens.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 15, 2019)

RuFrost said:


> *any comparison between bs1 official and to400s? and alike earbuds?) For example, Lyra Collection. (really seeking to try it!!!)*


To400s. Linear sound. Analytical. Considerable bass roll off, lacks depth and punch. Treble dips slightly but has an emphasis around 10khz for air. Overall it's like a more technical shozy bk without the mid bass punch.

Bs1 O. Warm medium full bass but not too deep. Slightly bright tilting mids but has enough vocal body to carry a presence. Really musical. Nice smooth lower treble and slight emphasis in the mid treble for sparkle, slightly rolled off upper treble. One peak around the upper mids (maybe 3khz region) that throws off tonality a bit, but not determental unless you want neutrality.

Both retrieve lots of detail. But fall short on overall extension and sounding 'dynamic'. I imagine they would make good earbuds to try out in mx500 or other more ported housings, but that would be costly lol.


----------



## seanc6441

Willber said:


> I think by "get extras" he means get more than one set.





mbwilson111 said:


> Yeah, in case you kill a driver during a recabling effort. It happens.


Thanks you are right. Makes sense.

Bought 2 kube buds and will buy 2 Victor/2 Docomo buds. Only bought one SL1.0+ but i can get that again if I need too.

I usually buy 2+ budget buds if im modding, easier to A/B that way to see if I prefer the mod or not.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 16, 2019)

Anyone still have the Rose Mojito in their rotation? Anyone still finding the treble too piercing for long durations?

I think I found a suitable fix, one that requires no EQ.




As you see the central vents allow the high frequency driver to expell sound. The outer vents produce the bass.

If you can buy filter paper its a great treble damper, but it also messes up bass by restricting airflow. However with the rose buds, you can dampen the treble and leave the bass untouched if you place the filter over only the central vents and leave the very outer row uncovered. You can use this in combination with foam and silicone ring (from the VE ex-pack) to potentially remove most treble peaks and balance out the sound.

Currently im using one ply of 'surgical mask' paper filter which was recommended for headphone modding. In combo with ksc75 foam liner, and a VE ex pack silicone ring. It's worked very well. It doesn't dull the sound clarity is retained but treble is under control now.

Sibilance is notably reduced, the treble is no longer brittle sounding (i think a peak in the very upper treble was causing this). Everything sounds damn good with it now. Bass hits moderately hard with the silicone ring alone, surprisingly. But it's clean and without mid bass bloat.

Dynamics are more impressive than ever, something the mojito always did well, now it does it without sounding artificially achieved through crazy FR.


----------



## Danneq

CyberGhost said:


> Does anybody know why there seems to be two versions of MusicMaker MrZ Tomahawk? There is one with the MusicMaker logo and then there is another with the Z in the middle.
> 
> One says Toneking the other Music Maker. These seem to be the same.
> 
> ...



It's the the same. It's the maker that changed name from MusicMaker to Toneking. It doesn't really sound like MX985. It's got good extension at both ends but some find them a bit too bright. I'd say they've got a slightly "metallic" sound and work best with hard rock or metal. I keep my pair because of the great synergy with those genres.


----------



## CyberGhost

Danneq said:


> It's the the same. It's the maker that changed name from MusicMaker to Toneking. It doesn't really sound like MX985. It's got good extension at both ends but some find them a bit too bright. I'd say they've got a slightly "metallic" sound and work best with hard rock or metal. I keep my pair because of the great synergy with those genres.



Thanks for the clarification, Danneq. The two versions have different grill openings, do you know if they sound the same?


----------



## HungryPanda

My Toneking Mr Z


----------



## waynes world

Sean's comparison:



seanc6441 said:


> To400s. Linear sound. Analytical. Considerable bass roll off, lacks depth and punch. Treble dips slightly but has an emphasis around 10khz for air. Overall it's like a more technical shozy bk without the mid bass punch.
> 
> Bs1 O. Warm medium full bass but not too deep. Slightly bright tilting mids but has enough vocal body to carry a presence. Really musical. Nice smooth lower treble and slight emphasis in the mid treble for sparkle, slightly rolled off upper treble. One peak around the upper mids (maybe 3khz region) that throws off tonality a bit, but not determental unless you want neutrality.
> 
> Both retrieve lots of detail. But fall short on overall extension and sounding 'dynamic'. I imagine they would make good earbuds to try out in mx500 or other more ported housings, but that would be costly lol.



Wayne's equivalent comparison:



waynes world said:


> To400s. Good bass, mids and treble. Awesome.
> 
> Bs1 O. Good bass, mids and treble, but different. Awesome too.
> 
> Both awesome!


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> Sean's comparison:
> 
> 
> 
> Wayne's equivalent comparison:


I'm critical but only because I know earbuds can sound amazing when a bit of care is put into the tuning.

Also because we cannot have the same opinion ever, or the universe would implode!


----------



## HungryPanda

I have quite a few earbuds but have been enjoying the Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0+ all day


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> I'm critical but only because I know earbuds can sound amazing when a bit of care is put into the tuning.
> 
> Also because we cannot have the same opinion ever, or the universe would implode!



Lol! But fyi, my point wasn't that you were being critical. My point really was that you are able to discern and express what you are hearing much better than I could ever hope to do!


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> I have quite a few earbuds but have been enjoying the Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0+ all day



Way to get someone impatient for their 1.0+'s to arrive!


----------



## HungryPanda

You will be rewarded soon


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> Lol! But fyi, my point wasn't that you were being critical. My point really was that you are able to discern and express what you are hearing much better than I could ever hope to do!


I once looked back at my very first attempts at describing the sound and think 'thats not right, that's not what im hearing now lol' because i couldnt really accurately describe what i was hearing. But we learn and now its so much easier for me to describe what im hearing now than before. So I have more confidence in what im saying isn't total BS  Even if it is 

Side note: God this Mojito sounds good now and my ears are not bleeding from the treble peaks haha.


----------



## KevDzn

seanc6441 said:


> Btw, why are the JVC branded ones cheaper than the Victor branded ones. Do they sound different? Thanks



I was told the Victor sounds better than jvc, that's why it's more expensive. I ordered both, and am waiting for delivery.

Yeah, by 'extras' I meant more than 1 unit each. In case of mishap when recabling and also to compare sound signatures.
As you know these buds are old dead stocks from factories.


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> You will be rewarded soon



Indeed. I'm also excited about the RW9's. I don't see them in your teeny weeny little inventory list!


----------



## DBaldock9

Hey - I just came across the 100' of small (0.66mm diameter) Copper Litz wire I ordered, back in August of last year
Does anyone remember whether I said which earbuds (or other project) I was planning to use that on?


----------



## chaiyuta

It takes quite a long time since I sent my specific DIY parts to PHARKAR consisting of 2 japanese soldering wire, CL copper splitter, 4.4 mm CL pure copper plug and Toxic discontinued Silver Plated Copper Litz (The Last workpiece before Mr.Frank died). Now My custom-spec PHARKAR 185 Ohm already finished. Look forward to listening it.


----------



## subwoof3r

OUTCH! sad news...


----------



## waynes world

subwoof3r said:


> OUTCH! sad news...



Whaaaaat? SO denied!


----------



## Danneq

CyberGhost said:


> Thanks for the clarification, Danneq. The two versions have different grill openings, do you know if they sound the same?



It might just be that they got a new supply of grills?

In the two photos above, both earbud have the Toneking logo. So there might be variations in the Toneking versions of Tomahawk as well.

I don't know if you can buy new MusicMaker Tomahawk earbuds anymore. If you find, it must be old stock that as seller has got, I suppose.


----------



## golov17

ClieOS said:


> LBB is just a great earbuds - it has the warmness that K is known for, but at the same time fairly well balanced. It was said to be an evolution from Poseidon and I do agree on that statement - besides the fact that it is not as grand sounding as Poseidon, I actually do prefer LBB overall. Given the price/performance ratio, I think there is no reason to miss this one.
> 
> VXC is said to be tuned similarly to the old VX (which most of you probably never heard of) - it is actually not entirely true as VXC is definitely a lot better sounding. The old VX is very warm and kinda slow, an decent sounding earbud overall but nothing particularly great to speak of. VXC kind of have a warmish sound as well but sounded much more dynamic and lively. However, it is still quire different a tuning from the previous model VXP (which is very neutral and detailed). Overall, VXC is still a good earbud but I won't say it is an improvement over VXP but more of the change of sound signature. I often recommend to people the VXP is good for instruments and classical music, where VXC is probably more for mainstream music. VXJ on the other hand is more or less a warmer version of VXC. It is only available from a single MoonDrop authorized dealer on Taobao as kinda a special edition but I don't think you will need VXJ when there is VXC around.


Nice buds, thanks  ))


----------



## ClieOS (Jan 16, 2019)

CyberGhost said:


> Thanks for the clarification, Danneq. The two versions have different grill openings, do you know if they sound the same?



There is no difference on the grill opening in the two pictures above. They are both standard MX500 style grill. There are, as far as I know, no variation in Tomahawk except for color: one has black housing while the other have silver housing, both sound exactly the same.

p/s: Tomahawk is still in production. Toneking still sells it on its own Taobao store.


----------



## jogawag

ClieOS said:


> There is no difference on the grill opening in the two pictures above. They are both standard MX500 style grill. There are, as far as I know, no variation in Tomahawk except for color: one has black housing while the other have silver housing, both sound exactly the same.
> 
> p/s: Tomahawk is still in production. Toneking still sells it on its own Taobao store.



I confirm that Toneking still sells ting on its own Taobao store.
Red housing ting and silver housing ting,  are both sound the same?


----------



## ClieOS

jogawag said:


> I confirm that Toneking still sells ting on its own Taobao store.
> Red housing ting and silver housing ting,  are both sound the same?



The same. They sell both color versions of Ting since the beginning.


----------



## CheeseInTheSky

Those Docomo earbuds look really nice, too bad there isnt a more accesible to get them.
Seems kinda odd registering on a Malaysian Forum just to try and get some earbuds


----------



## Redcarmoose

Danneq said:


> It might just be that they got a new supply of grills?
> 
> In the two photos above, both earbud have the Toneking logo. So there might be variations in the Toneking versions of Tomahawk as well.
> 
> I don't know if you can buy new MusicMaker Tomahawk earbuds anymore. If you find, it must be old stock that as seller has got, I suppose.


The Ting has the different grill.


----------



## Willber

waynes world said:


> Whaaaaat? SO denied!


Looks like you can still get them here (67 out of 100 sold):

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FAA...924.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.7b0d4c4dWotHaN

Mine were shipped a couple of days ago.


----------



## fairx (Jan 16, 2019)

I have those docomo with long stem. Ordered locally from the very same seller. After 3 months left driver develop some kind of distortion that won't go away.

So I would suggest if you could get extra it'll be worth it. I'm thinking of ordering another because the upper mids is so clear and non fatiguing.

I'm not sure how the distortion started because my friend had it with him when it develop.

Ugh I had a nasty new year flu. Congestion  blocking my left ear and I had since not listen to any earbud until today! Glad it's getting better  but still missing some frequency..  Sigh...


----------



## subwoof3r

Willber said:


> Looks like you can still get them here (67 out of 100 sold):
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FAA...924.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.7b0d4c4dWotHaN
> 
> Mine were shipped a couple of days ago.


Thanks, wondering why Sammy (from Faaeal) did not shares to me this link directly, but after checking price difference for this "commemorative edition", now I understand 
Hopefully to finally buy and get a 1.0+ for my third attempt!  (I will be back at home in few hours, hopefully still available..)


----------



## Willber

subwoof3r said:


> Thanks, wondering why Sammy (from Faaeal) did not shares to me this link directly, but after checking price difference for this "commemorative edition", now I understand
> Hopefully to finally buy and get a 1.0+ for my third attempt!  (I will be back at home in few hours, hopefully still available..)


Sorry, I quoted the wrong post.
Hopefully you will still get one.


----------



## waynes world (Jan 16, 2019)

Hey @subwoof3r, I just noticed your "important notice" in your sig. I know that you had a bad experience with the individual, but a lot of people said that they have had only good experiences with him. You had your experience and you wrote about it which is fine, but to me it seems a bit much to have that warning in your sig. My 2 cents fwiw!


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Hey @subwoof3r, I just noticed your "important notice". I know that you had a bad experience with the individual, but a lot of people said that they have had only good experiences with him. You had your experience and you wrote about it which is fine, but to me it seems a bit much to have that warning in your sig. My 2 cents fwiw!



I did not realize that was in his signature.  You are right... that is too much.  Nothing out of the ordinary occurred.  The seller tried to tell him that a particular cable for a gift bud could be found on ali.  His others are hand braided.  He does not even advertise on here.  Those who want to do business with him can and others do not  have to.  My experience was more than satisfactory.


----------



## kkl10

I'm very interested in acquiring a quality earbud to expand my small headgear collection, but the value proposition of this type of earphones is very confusing. I often see $10 - 20 earbuds being compared to $50 - 100 earbuds as if they have comparable sound quality. If I had up to $100 to spend on the best sounding earbuds, I'd have no idea where to look at...

A couple days ago, I blindly ordered an Edifier H180 for €9 not knowing its reputation in these pseudo-audiophile circles. I just want to have a feel for what to expect from such cheap earphones. I would have assumed that a $10 earbud wouldn't sound significantly better or worse than a $10 IEM. Yet I see people comparing it (and other similarly cheap ones) with much more expensive earbuds, which is confusing.

I don't know if this means that earbuds generally sound much inferior to IEMs and the extra $ buys very little increase in sound quality in this type of earphones or if cheapo earbuds can sound much superior to cheapo IEMs...


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 16, 2019)

kkl10 said:


> I'm very interested in acquiring a quality earbud to expand my small headgear collection, but the value proposition of this type of earphones is very confusing. I often see $10 - 20 earbuds being compared to $50 - 100 earbuds as if they have comparable sound quality. If I had up to $100 to spend on the best sounding earbuds, I'd have no idea where to look at...
> 
> A couple days ago, I blindly ordered an Edifier H180 for €9 not knowing its reputation in these pseudo-audiophile circles. I just want to have a feel for what to expect from such cheap earphones. I would have assumed that a $10 earbud wouldn't sound significantly better or worse than a $10 IEM. Yet I see people comparing it (and other similarly cheap ones) with much more expensive earbuds, which is confusing.
> 
> I don't know if this means that earbuds generally sound much inferior to IEMs and the extra $ buys very little increase in sound quality in this type of earphones or if cheapo earbuds can sound much superior to cheapo IEMs...


That's because there really is not much of a gap between the best sub $20 earbuds and the average $100 earbuds. Its partly because the best budget earbuds are quite excellent, especially if you're willing to fine tune the sound with foams or mods. But also because the general limitations of earbuds (sub bass extension), inconsistency of performance because of different earshapes and dimensions. Are not easily manageable by simply 'upgrading' to a finer tuned driver (you could debate that last point even).

Really you have to step up to $200+ to see a notable upgrade and even then you have to reasearch a lot to get the right earbud for your preferences.

My advice is to buy like 5 earbuds under $20. Get all the fan favourites like Vido, emx500, RY4s, Snow Lotus 1.0+, Docomo/diy pk2, monk plus. It will still come in at under $100 easily.

Then you can figure out exactly the upgrade path you want to take, what to expect from various earbud sound sigs, which shell type suits you best or which doesn't work for you.

I guarantee if you just go out and buy any $100 earbud you may be disappointed. You really have to test the waters with the budget stuff first.


----------



## ClieOS

kkl10 said:


> I'm very interested in acquiring a quality earbud to expand my small headgear collection, but the value proposition of this type of earphones is very confusing...



...If only price tag is ever a reliable indicator of performance.


----------



## subwoof3r

waynes world said:


> Hey @subwoof3r, I just noticed your "important notice" in your sig. I know that you had a bad experience with the individual, but a lot of people said that they have had only good experiences with him. You had your experience and you wrote about it which is fine, but to me it seems a bit much to have that warning in your sig. My 2 cents fwiw!





mbwilson111 said:


> I did not realize that was in his signature.  You are right... that is too much.  Nothing out of the ordinary occurred.  The seller tried to tell him that a particular cable for a gift bud could be found on ali.  His others are hand braided.  He does not even advertise on here.  Those who want to do business with him can and others do not  have to.  My experience was more than satisfactory.


After all, you both are right.. peace in this world 
_- sig removed -_


----------



## bobeau

kkl10 said:


> I don't know if this means that earbuds generally sound much inferior to IEMs and the extra $ buys very little increase in sound quality in this type of earphones or if cheapo earbuds can sound much superior to cheapo IEMs...



The latter.  My guess is it's relatively easy and cheap to produce a good small dynamic driver that performs well in an open context.  But try to scale that up to larger headphones or in an isolated IEM and R&D considerations go up to keep relative performance.

I've had some Snow Lotus's ($10) for a week, using at least a few hours a day.  My other daily driver is a KSE1200 which I've had since Sept and some CA Andromedas while out and about for the past couple years.  Out of my mojo they are decidedly a hifi listen, as in I'm happy listening to these for hours and don't feel the need to grab the others.   The others are clearly a step above but nowhere close to what the cost would suggest, and I could see some preferring these to something like the Andromedas simply based on the tuning or BA vs. dynamic tonality.

All the same, it's hard to not see what that next level up is so I have some $100 Toneking TO600s on the way (600 ohm earbuds lol).


----------



## kkl10 (Jan 16, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> But also because the general limitations of earbuds (sub bass extension), inconsistency of performance because of different earshapes and dimensions. Are not easily manageable by simply 'upgrading' to a finer tuned driver (you could debate that last point even).
> 
> You really have to test the waters with the budget stuff first.



I was indeed suspecting something like this. This design requires some experimentation.


----------



## kkl10

bobeau said:


> The latter.  My guess is it's relatively easy and cheap to produce a good small dynamic driver that performs well in an open context.  But try to scale that up to larger headphones or in an isolated IEM and R&D considerations go up to keep relative performance.



I get the feeling that R&D investment in earbuds is much lower than in IEMs... not sure if it's because earbuds are less popular than IEMs (correct me if I'm wrong) or because the design limitations are just to difficult to overcome.... or maybe both...


----------



## HungryPanda (Jan 16, 2019)

A lot of the increase in price of earbuds is not only R&D it is the cost of ever better drivers, upgraded cables, plugs,splitters etc. for around $12 I can get 10 emx drivers, $30 a pair of graphene.


----------



## bobeau (Jan 16, 2019)

kkl10 said:


> I get the feeling that R&D investment in earbuds is much lower than in IEMs... not sure if it's because earbuds are less popular than IEMs (correct me if I'm wrong) or because the design limitations are just to difficult to overcome.... or maybe both...



The market for $$ earbuds appears to be vanishingly small - I'm not sure if R&D is really a thing outside of DIY ethos even for the high-end market.  It would surely be interesting if a big player like Shure or Sony took a stab at the 'high end' (ie. $300+) considering they're already in the $2k+ arena with IEMs.

About a dozen years back Audio Technica made some clip-on earbuds that I recall were something like $150.  I own a pair and used them at the gym, I remember thinking they were good but I don't recall thinking they were superior than say a KSC75 which I also owned around the same time.


----------



## waynes world

subwoof3r said:


> After all, you both are right.. peace in this world
> _- sig removed -_


----------



## Willber

bobeau said:


> I've had some Snow Lotus's ($10) for a week, using at least a few hours a day.  My other daily driver is a KSE1200 which I've had since Sept and some CA Andromedas while out and about for the past couple years.  Out of my mojo they are decidedly a hifi listen, as in I'm happy listening to these for hours and don't feel the need to grab the others.   The others are clearly a step above but nowhere close to what the cost would suggest, and I could see some preferring these to something like the Andromedas simply based on the tuning or BA vs. dynamic tonality.


For the $10 Snow Lotus to be compared favourably to $2000 IEMs is impressive.


----------



## waynes world (Jan 16, 2019)

bobeau said:


> About a dozen years back Audio Technica made some clip-on earbuds that I recall were something like $150.  I own a pair and used them at the gym, I remember thinking they were good but I don't recall thinking they were superior than say a KSC75 which I also owned around the same time.



The KSC75's have a way of bringing us audiophiles back to earth lol.

Edit: just like the budget buds these days


----------



## Willber

waynes world said:


> The KSC75's have a way of bringing us audiophiles back to earth lol.
> 
> Edit: just like the budget buds these days


I agree. Every time I put on my KSC75 (I have 3!) I am amazed at what they can do. The SL 1.0 have a similar effect. Looking forward to the 1.0+ and the others I have ordered that were recommended.


----------



## ClieOS

Kilinee (轻聆) K16
Rose Masya 2 (a.k.a. Masya Pro) Custom Edition
荣K68 Black Cable Edition
MoonDrop Shiro-Yuki
**** BK2


----------



## ClieOS




----------



## seanc6441

bobeau said:


> The latter.  My guess is it's relatively easy and cheap to produce a good small dynamic driver that performs well in an open context.  But try to scale that up to larger headphones or in an isolated IEM and R&D considerations go up to keep relative performance.
> 
> I've had some Snow Lotus's ($10) for a week, using at least a few hours a day.  My other daily driver is a KSE1200 which I've had since Sept and some CA Andromedas while out and about for the past couple years.  Out of my mojo they are decidedly a hifi listen, as in I'm happy listening to these for hours and don't feel the need to grab the others.   The others are clearly a step above but nowhere close to what the cost would suggest, and I could see some preferring these to something like the Andromedas simply based on the tuning or BA vs. dynamic tonality.
> 
> All the same, it's hard to not see what that next level up is so I have some $100 Toneking TO600s on the way (600 ohm earbuds lol).


Earbuds never had a problem bossing it in the budget market. It's the mid-high end market that one needs to proceed with caution. Because they can no longer be just 'good for the price' they need to perform to a high level in most aspects. Some do, some don't. Many don't reach that level without considerable foam tweaks or modding IMO.


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> Kilinee (轻聆) K16
> Rose Masya 2 (a.k.a. Masya Pro) Custom Edition
> 荣K68 Black Cable Edition
> MoonDrop Shiro-Yuki
> **** BK2


BK2 looks quite nice, does it sound as nice as it looks?


----------



## subwoof3r

ok, bought 2 pairs of SL 1.0+ ! (from @Willber link)
hopefully no more surprise this time (please!)


----------



## waynes world

Willber said:


> I agree. Every time I put on my KSC75 (I have 3!) I am amazed at what they can do. The SL 1.0 have a similar effect. Looking forward to the 1.0+ and the others I have ordered that were recommended.



I have my KSC75's on a Parts Express headband. But I listen more to the Sportapros (again on PT headband) due to the added bass. As you probably know, the Portapros, Sportapros and KSC35's all have the same drivers and sound. If you have a lot of time to waste, and want to watch a whacky history of the Portapros, then the below video is for you 



Spoiler


----------



## Danneq

Redcarmoose said:


> The Ting has the different grill.



Yeah, it's had the same grill all the time, from the MusicMaker days until now when the maker is called Toneking.

Tomahawk has been using MX500 type grill all the time...


----------



## Willber (Jan 16, 2019)

waynes world said:


> I have my KSC75's on a Parts Express headband. But I listen more to the Sportapros (again on PT headband) due to the added bass. As you probably know, the Portapros, Sportapros and KSC35's all have the same drivers and sound. If you have a lot of time to waste, and want to watch a whacky history of the Portapros, then the below video is for you
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler



I have one on clips, one on a PE headband and one spare. They were half price (about $10) a couple of years ago. I haven't bothered with the KSC35 derivatives.

Thanks for the vid!  (official KSC75 smiley)


----------



## bobeau (Jan 16, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> Earbuds never had a problem bossing it in the budget market. It's the mid-high end market that one needs to proceed with caution. Because they can no longer be just 'good for the price' they need to perform to a high level in most aspects. Some do, some don't. Many don't reach that level without considerable foam tweaks or modding IMO.



Part of the issue for me is having significant uptake in the head-fi community - if I'm spending $xxx, I want to see more than impressions from a handful of people, and preferably measurements, the opportunity to hear at a CanJam or local meet, an active demand for it so it can be flipped at minimal loss, etc.  DIY tweaking of commodity components makes me a bit nervous... I'd prefer it to be engineered to the cost, not at the cost because volume of sales is almost nil.

If a big player really put some R&D into a set I'd see no problem paying north of $1k if they eventually gravitated that far up.


----------



## CyberGhost

Danneq said:


> It might just be that they got a new supply of grills?
> 
> In the two photos above, both earbud have the Toneking logo. So there might be variations in the Toneking versions of Tomahawk as well.
> 
> I don't know if you can buy new MusicMaker Tomahawk earbuds anymore. If you find, it must be old stock that as seller has got, I suppose.



Thanks Danneq!


----------



## CyberGhost

ClieOS said:


> There is no difference on the grill opening in the two pictures above. They are both standard MX500 style grill. There are, as far as I know, no variation in Tomahawk except for color: one has black housing while the other have silver housing, both sound exactly the same.
> 
> p/s: Tomahawk is still in production. Toneking still sells it on its own Taobao store.



There is definitely a difference in the pictures. One of them has deeper grooves. The difference is like with Monk and Monk Plus.

But if you guys are saying there is no difference in sound, I'll take your word for it.


----------



## CyberGhost

ClieOS said:


> Kilinee (轻聆) K16
> Rose Masya 2 (a.k.a. Masya Pro) Custom Edition
> 荣K68 Black Cable Edition
> MoonDrop Shiro-Yuki
> **** BK2



Have you compared Masya Pro to the original? What are your thoughts?


----------



## CyberGhost

Somebody should send this thread to Sennheiser to show them how much interest there is in earbuds so they can fire up those factories and make an MX 990


----------



## seanc6441

bobeau said:


> Part of the issue for me is having significant uptake in the head-fi community - if I'm spending $xxx, I want to see more than impressions from a handful of people, and preferably measurements, the opportunity to hear at a CanJam or local meet, an active demand for it so it can be flipped at minimal loss, etc.  DIY tweaking of commodity components makes me a bit nervous... I'd prefer it to be engineered to the cost, not at the cost because volume of sales is almost nil.
> 
> If a big player really put some R&D into a set I'd see no problem paying north of $1k if they eventually gravitated that far up.


As Clieos said its probably needs a little more time to keep maturing and it will eventually head in that direction. And then with more demand and very high performing high end earbuds. The quality will trickle down into the more budget friendly options too in terms of QC and R+D.


----------



## CyberGhost

seanc6441 said:


> I'm critical but only because I know earbuds can sound amazing when a bit of care is put into the tuning.
> 
> Also because we cannot have the same opinion ever, or the universe would implode!



Are 400s and BS1 worth picking up?

Do you prefer 400s to BK? What about Masya?


----------



## mbwilson111

ClieOS said:


> Kilinee (轻聆) K16
> Rose Masya 2 (a.k.a. Masya Pro) Custom Edition
> 荣K68 Black Cable Edition
> MoonDrop Shiro-Yuki
> **** BK2



Is there a link to those cable fasteners...an inexpensive multipack?


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> BK2 looks quite nice, does it sound as nice as it looks?



Yes, it does. Mine is still in the burn-in process. Not quite on ToTL level, but definitely at least a upper mid level (and priced accordingly). I'll say it is well worth checking out.



bobeau said:


> Part of the issue for me is having significant uptake in the head-fi community - if I'm spending $xxx, I want to see more than impressions from a handful of people, and preferably measurements, the opportunity to hear at a CanJam or local meet, an active demand for it so it can be flipped at minimal loss, etc.  DIY tweaking of commodity components makes me a bit nervous... I'd prefer it to be engineered to the cost, not at the cost because volume of sales is almost nil.
> 
> If a big player really put some R&D into a set I'd see no problem paying north of $1k if they eventually gravitated that far up.



Most of what you are saying is / has slowly becoming reality, but mainly happens in China. Unlikely the rest of the world that chase after IEM, Chinese still like their earbuds very much, and many of the Chinese made earbuds we are discussing here can be auditioned in headphone store or even arranged online for home audition (by paying a deposit). It is far easier to audition an earbuds in China than it is on the rest of the world - it is we that are not keeping up with the Chinese, not the other way around.



CyberGhost said:


> There is definitely a difference in the pictures. One of them has deeper grooves. The difference is like with Monk and Monk Plus.
> 
> But if you guys are saying there is no difference in sound, I'll take your word for it.



Monk / Monk+ might not be a good example - due to some complication, VE had to switch supplier / OEM factory between Monk and Monk+ (among other models), so parts might not look exactly the same. It is not done so for sonic purpose.



CyberGhost said:


> Have you compared Masya Pro to the original? What are your thoughts?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2589#post-14708802



mbwilson111 said:


> Is there a link to those cable fasteners...an inexpensive multipack?



This particular one is sold (and probably made) only by one Taobao seller. You will have to buy from Taobao or use a third party forwarder to get it.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 16, 2019)

CyberGhost said:


> Are 400s and BS1 worth picking up?
> 
> Do you prefer 400s to BK? What about Masya?


I listened to my bs1 again. It's a very enjoyable listen. Beautiful midrange if you like a warm/bright tilt. Vocals and strings come through so well. Not for end to end extension, but everything in between is wonderfully detailed and sweet sounding.

I think a a tuning foam or shell change could pull a bit more sub bass out of these. My suspicion is that there's a thicker paper filter behind the driver which is reducing the bass in favour of a tighter sound. I may try open mine again just to check.

To400s is better than the second bk i had, but i had fond memories of my original brown SE cable bk... Either my memory is a little unreliable here or the tuning was changed slightly. Because I think the TO400s did what the new bk did without sounding stuffy in the low mids. It had slightly more soundstage. But i dont recommend either! I cannot recommend the to400s when it sounded so powerless in the bass . It was a bit dull on the low end but the rest was very good. Maybe the TO600 is a better bet?

Masya is very nice, if a little bass light too. But it wasn't a dull bass response, just a little reserved. Sweet forward vocals, smooth highs. Little bit peaky and dippy but in a mostly harmonic way. It never sounded incoherent, just hid some detail in those dips a little more than BS1 but ha

If you're lucky enough to own a source with 3-5ohm OI buy the masya and it's a different beast. Fuller sounding, bass was still not pounding but notably filled out. Absolutely wonderful with thin foams on that output impedance. Sounding like a pair of extremely smooth full size cans.


----------



## chaiyuta

@bobeau @kkl10 : Nowadays there are a few big companies making high-end earbuds e.g. Audio-Technica (Japan), UCOTECH (Korea). If you really care on R&D or specific patent technology they own. But You have to blind-buying by self. Some DIY brands also produce a custom-spec driver on their earbuds product. For Thai DIY brand, that is Miracle brand.


----------



## snip3r77

There are 2 versions of the snow lotus plus, one is cheaper and the other is commerative. Cable is nicer on the latter?


----------



## redkingjoe

I have some earbuds made by Sony and Aiwa from 1990. They sound good comparing to today’s TOTL. Although they are 30 years old they are still running strong! I’m using them every week!

I also have many recent-made earbuds. But some of them are problematic!


----------



## bobeau (Jan 17, 2019)

chaiyuta said:


> @bobeau @kkl10 : Nowadays there are a few big companies making high-end earbuds e.g. Audio-Technica (Japan), UCOTECH (Korea)



Any links/info to particular models?



seanc6441 said:


> To400s is better than the second bk i had, but i had fond memories of my original brown SE cable bk... Either my memory is a little unreliable here or the tuning was changed slightly. Because I think the TO400s did what the new bk did without sounding stuffy in the low mids. It had slightly more soundstage. But i dont recommend either! I cannot recommend the to400s when it sounded so powerless in the bass . It was a bit dull on the low end but the rest was very good. Maybe the TO600 is a better bet?



I just got in my TO600s tonight, have had them burn in for about an hour while listening to them for another hour or so.  My initial impression out of my Mojo is they remind me of ety er4s.  Maybe slightly fuller?  I'd love to have on hand to compare.  But definitely in that realm, detailed and analytical w/ a bright tilt.  The bass is certainly there and it is very taut - I was actually kinda amazed at how well they rendered Aphex Twin's latest EP, my CA Andromedas sounded somewhat bloated by comparison.  Snare hits are super crisp and somewhat upfront. They're impressive, not sure if this the sig I'm going for though.


----------



## chaiyuta (Jan 17, 2019)

@bobeau : Here you go~. 
Official Link : ATH-CM2000Ti and UCOTECH ES-P1
Shop Link : ATH-CM2000Ti and UCOTECH ES-P1


----------



## bobeau

chaiyuta said:


> @bobeau : Here you go~.
> Official Link : ATH-CM2000Ti and UCOTECH ES-P1
> Shop Link : ATH-CM2000Ti and UCOTECH ES-P1



Thanks!  Interestingly the ATH's have a US page listed at $400 but there doesn't appear to be a buy link.

https://www.audio-technica.com/cms/headphones/15b63bfb15592af7/index.html


----------



## subwoof3r

snip3r77 said:


> There are 2 versions of the snow lotus plus, one is cheaper and the other is commerative. Cable is nicer on the latter?


If you order on the classic 1.0/1.0+ link, you will result a message from Sammy Li to tell you 1.0+ is discontinued. You have to buy from *THIS link* (that Willber shared few pages back) to get a 1.0+
Beware, 30 pieces left only!


----------



## Hououin Kyouma

Is Snow Lotus 2.0 better than 1.0+?


----------



## redkingjoe

chaiyuta said:


> @bobeau : Here you go~.
> Official Link : ATH-CM2000Ti and UCOTECH ES-P1
> Shop Link : ATH-CM2000Ti and UCOTECH ES-P1



The ATH-cm2000ti uses truly high end materials for building the earbuds. Most other earbuds simply bites dust! 

The only complaint is the earbuds provide two different connecting mmcx cables, one for single-end 3.5mm and the other balanced. That means I need to pay for a high end cable that I don’t need.


----------



## redkingjoe

seanc6441 said:


> Earbuds never had a problem bossing it in the budget market. It's the mid-high end market that one needs to proceed with caution. Because they can no longer be just 'good for the price' they need to perform to a high level in most aspects. Some do, some don't. Many don't reach that level without considerable foam tweaks or modding IMO.



Earbuds occupied the highend, mid end,low end and very low end market back in 1990s. Sony gave it up when IEM can make much much more profit per pair!


----------



## chaiyuta

redkingjoe said:


> The only complaint is the earbuds provide two different connecting mmcx cables, one for single-end 3.5mm and the other balanced. That means I need to pay for a high end cable that I don’t need.


Unfortunately it is not MMCX socket but it is A2DC socket which your choices of 3rd party upgraded cable are limited.


----------



## redkingjoe

chaiyuta said:


> Unfortunately it is not MMCX socket but it is A2DC socket which your choices of 3rd party upgraded cable are limited.



Thanks for  the information!

Another downside !


----------



## drey101 (Jan 17, 2019)

chaiyuta said:


> Unfortunately it is not MMCX socket but it is A2DC socket which your choices of 3rd party upgraded cable are limited.


I mentioned this in another thread, but I think it may be helpful here?

I discovered a new brand that I plan to buy next, quite cheap and good looking (imo) cables in aliexpress with a good price that you can order in any type of connector you want. 0.75, 0.78, MMCX, IM, A2DC, IE80. It also comes in SE or balanced, and its quite cheap (<20 USD). I dunno about the build quality though... I previously ordered a cheaper 2 pin and mmcx version SE though, so if it's piss poor when it arrives, I'll mention it. Link below:

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32959...&terminal_id=973a085982b94268a31ab78d9c338168


----------



## lyrean

Is Snow Lotus plus much more brighter than regular Snow Lotus? I just received my regular Snow Lotus yesterday and to me it seems to be quite well balanced and it's bright enough but I wouldn't want it to be any brighter.

For example, RY4S is too bright for me, unbearable to listen to.


----------



## CyberGhost

seanc6441 said:


> I listened to my bs1 again. It's a very enjoyable listen. Beautiful midrange if you like a warm/bright tilt. Vocals and strings come through so well. Not for end to end extension, but everything in between is wonderfully detailed and sweet sounding.
> 
> I think a a tuning foam or shell change could pull a bit more sub bass out of these. My suspicion is that there's a thicker paper filter behind the driver which is reducing the bass in favour of a tighter sound. I may try open mine again just to check.
> 
> ...



Thanks Sean.

I actually picked up Masya on your recommendation.

Just to clarify we're talking about Penon BS1, right? Might pick them up too, also on your recommendation


----------



## seanc6441

redkingjoe said:


> Earbuds occupied the highend, mid end,low end and very low end market back in 1990s. Sony gave it up when IEM can make much much more profit per pair!


Yes absolutely that's why all these vintage high end earbuds are built so well. The amount of design research and quality of them is excellent. They seem to last very long.


CyberGhost said:


> Thanks Sean.
> 
> I actually picked up Masya on your recommendation.
> 
> Just to clarify we're talking about Penon BS1, right? Might pick them up too, also on your recommendation


Penon Bs1 official yes.

I don't usually rec mid tier earbuds much anymore because the budgets are so good that you usually need to jump to high end to see improvements. But the Masya is a great bud to have in your collection. I like it much more from my iphone 6s (4.7 ohm OI) than V30 (1 ohm OI) simply for the output impedance. But I did state that above so you are buying with this in mind i hope


----------



## bobeau

So... does anyone here actually own the ATH-CM2000ti?  Any reviews?  I've been searching and have come up empty handed.


----------



## clovermau5

subwoof3r said:


> If you order on the classic 1.0/1.0+ link, you will result a message from Sammy Li to tell you 1.0+ is discontinued. You have to buy from *THIS link* (that Willber shared few pages back) to get a 1.0+
> Beware, 30 pieces left only!



so i was curious how diff 1.0+ with commerative edition. 
looks like my guess is right. the cable is different than original 1.0+


----------



## subwoof3r

clovermau5 said:


> so i was curious how diff 1.0+ with commerative edition.
> looks like my guess is right. the cable is different than original 1.0+


Thanks for the info, hmm not sure what to think then, not sure that it's a good thing, as it will sound slightly different from the original 1.0+ (I hope for the good, but maybe for the bad too).
I hope someone here will be able to compare original 1.0+ and this commemorative edition, just to be sure.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have been listening to the Snow lotus 1.0+ commemorative edition for the last two days and it is an excellent earbud, I actually prefer it to my Snow Lotus 2.0 as it is not as dark sounding


----------



## clovermau5

HungryPanda said:


> I have been listening to the Snow lotus 1.0+ commemorative edition for the last two days and it is an excellent earbud, I actually prefer it to my Snow Lotus 2.0 as it is not as dark sounding


is soundstage wider than ry4s ?

currently i love fengrudiy mx985 . it sounds better than my ry4s ue, edifier h180 or even vido. now looking to try snow lotus 1.0+ 
anyone had tried this ?


----------



## Winterheim

That photo (and the product itself in Aliexpress) appears to be the same as what is called the "Tingo TC200" in other online stores, but it really looks like the Tingo TG-38S.


----------



## Ira Delphic

HungryPanda said:


> I have been listening to the Snow lotus 1.0+ commemorative edition for the last two days and it is an excellent earbud, I actually prefer it to my Snow Lotus 2.0 as it is not as dark sounding



I don't need any more budget earbuds... but just ordered one. Still a few dozen left of the 100 - 26 as of just now. For sound source - LG V30 and LG V10.

*FAAEAL Snow-lotus 1.0+/1.0 Plus Blue Hifi Earphone 64 Ohm Earbuds Commemorative Edition Limited Sale ONLY 100 PCS*


----------



## chaiyuta

bobeau said:


> So... does anyone here actually own the ATH-CM2000ti?  Any reviews?  I've been searching and have come up empty handed.


I heard mix love and hate of ATH-CM2000Ti. One Thai Owner (he didn't write a review though) and a few Thai people who went to e-earphone japan confirmed me that it is pretty great and not harsh sounding after burn-in passed. While I read some negative reviews from Japanese owners. A few owners decided to resale after a month. Sadly, Nobody here in this thread owns ATH-CM2000Ti. Most People in this thread are in budget earbuds segment as you see. Just a few people here play on high-end and high-price tag earbuds. BTW Reading reviews is somewhat useless for me unless I know who having a same direction of SQ preference as me. For example, Penon BS1 Official is one of my disliking as much as I decided to resale after a few weeks.


----------



## Zerohour88

ClieOS said:


>



a friend got the BK2 from lucky bag (he was hoping to get lucky and get the "grand prize", lol), he really liked it despite not being into earbuds, and remarked that its quite hard to drive from the X7ii

The Moondrop Shiro-yuki though, that's new? never thought Moondrop would do a generic MX500 shell earbud.


----------



## jogawag (Jan 17, 2019)

Winterheim said:


> That photo (and the product itself in Aliexpress) appears to be the same as what is called the "Tingo TC200" in other online stores, but it really looks like the Tingo TG-38S.



Maybe that is "fengru diy mx985" in Aliexpress.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32687542028.html


----------



## HungryPanda

clovermau5 said:


> is soundstage wider than ry4s ?
> 
> currently i love fengrudiy mx985 . it sounds better than my ry4s ue, edifier h180 or even vido. now looking to try snow lotus 1.0+
> anyone had tried this ?


 As I do not have the RY4s I cannot comment on that, I do have the Fengru Silver earbuds which are in a MX500 shell. The Snow Lotus 1.0+ sounds a bit better than the Fengru Silver. Soundstage is very good on the Fengru Silver and just a touch more than the Snow Lotus. Snow Lotus has a fuller sound though.


----------



## ClieOS

Zerohour88 said:


> The Moondrop Shiro-yuki though, that's new? never thought Moondrop would do a generic MX500 shell earbud.



The back of the metal case literally say it is meant to be a cheapo model with no warranty with the exception of DOA. Basically It is MoonDrop's interpretation of VE Monk.


----------



## dimitex

what bud would you recommend? I mostly listen to classical, and jazz (50's-60's)


----------



## kkl10 (Jan 17, 2019)

Have $35 to test the waters with earbuds. I'm open to multiple purchases, but would rather avoid clutter and pick the fewest earbuds possible. I like variety to some extent, but would like to get the best possible sound quality (if worthwhile) even if that means limiting the choice to only one. Won't be modding much besides rolling foams for now. Average to below average ear size. Value a linear FR without jarring peaks/non-linearities anywhere. Have a preference for analog, buttery smooth, lush sound with realistic timbre, but without jeopardizing the technical ability to be a competent all-arounder. I listen to almost everything. I'm fine with either a slightly bright or dark tonal balance. Fine with either a thick and heavy or a relatively weightless sound. Bass light is fine. _Anything_ as long as it sounds wholly coherent and natural/enjoyable.

Have very low tolerance for sibilance, shoutiness, honkiness, boominess, shrillness, resonances, and other such acoustic oddities or non-sense artificialities of any sort. I know that cheapo stuff is always plagued by some issue like this but still... The cleaner and more transparent it sounds, the better. I also don't care for head/earphones that rely too much on artificialities or try to show off technicalities at the expense of naturalness, smoothness, realism and/or coherence.

What would you guys recommend to this cheap snob?

EDIT: Earphone to be driven mainly by a Meridian Explorer 2 (0.5 Ohms OI) at home. If too hard to drive, I have a much more powerful desktop amp at hand.


----------



## seanc6441

dimitex said:


> what bud would you recommend? I mostly listen to classical, and jazz (50's-60's)


Please give us more info than that. Budget?


----------



## rkw

dimitex said:


> what bud would you recommend? I mostly listen to classical, and jazz (50's-60's)


You have to provide a lot more information. How much do you want to spend? What is your source (DAP, phone, headphone amp)? What headphones/iem/earbuds have you used and what did you like/dislike about them?


----------



## dimitex

seanc6441 said:


> Please give us more info than that. Budget?


<100 i guess


----------



## seanc6441

kkl10 said:


> Have $35 to test the waters with earbuds. I'm open to multiple purchases, but would rather avoid clutter and pick the fewest earbuds possible. I like variety to some extent, but would like to get the best possible sound quality even if that means limiting the choice to only one. Won't be modding much besides rolling foams for now. Average to below average ear size. Value a linear FR without undue peaks/non-linearities anywhere. Have a preference for analog, buttery smooth, lush sound with realistic timbre, but without jeopardizing the technical ability to be a competent all-arounder. I listen to almost everything. I'm fine with either a slightly bright or dark tonal balance. Fine with either a thick and heavy or a relatively weightless sound. Bass light is fine. _Anything_ as long as it sounds wholly coherent and natural/enjoyable.
> 
> Have very low tolerance for sibilance, shoutiness, honkiness, boominess, shrillness, resonances, and other such acoustic oddities or non-sense artificialities of any sort. I know that cheapo stuff is always plagued by some issue like this but still... The cleaner and more transparent it sounds, the better. I also don't care for head/earphones that rely too much on artificialities or try to show off technicalities at the expense of naturalness, smoothness, realism and/or coherence.
> 
> What would you guys recommend to this cheap snob?





kkl10 said:


> Have $35 to test the waters with earbuds. I'm open to multiple purchases, but would rather avoid clutter and pick the fewest earbuds possible. I like variety to some extent, but would like to get the best possible sound quality even if that means limiting the choice to only one. Won't be modding much besides rolling foams for now. Average to below average ear size. Value a linear FR without undue peaks/non-linearities anywhere. Have a preference for analog, buttery smooth, lush sound with realistic timbre, but without jeopardizing the technical ability to be a competent all-arounder. I listen to almost everything. I'm fine with either a slightly bright or dark tonal balance. Fine with either a thick and heavy or a relatively weightless sound. Bass light is fine. _Anything_ as long as it sounds wholly coherent and natural/enjoyable.
> 
> Have very low tolerance for sibilance, shoutiness, honkiness, boominess, shrillness, resonances, and other such acoustic oddities or non-sense artificialities of any sort. I know that cheapo stuff is always plagued by some issue like this but still... The cleaner and more transparent it sounds, the better. I also don't care for head/earphones that rely too much on artificialities or try to show off technicalities at the expense of naturalness, smoothness, realism and/or coherence.
> 
> What would you guys recommend to this cheap snob?



Docomo stock earbud might fit the bill. It's below your budget but it's got a nice analog tonality, balance and is fairly well resolving with thin foams, or smoother/buttery with thicker donuts.

Buy the original better ones they are NOS/New old stock but i can get you the contact info of someone I just bought one off of. Shipping is like $5 and the bud cost like $6-12 depending on the options chosen.

@jogawag

May suggest you get the DIY PK SR2 version instead, i suggest you pick up both. It'll still come in at under $35.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 17, 2019)

dimitex said:


> <100 i guess


VE Asura maybe, just got one from @Carrow  and it's very clean sounding with good tonal balance if only slightly bright leaning. Doesn't have a lot of sub bass but has enough mid bass-low mids to balance the sound while never being 'warm'.

It's quite resolving but smooth, i can see classical, jazz and vocal playing well with this earbud.

I recommend these foams as the give the most clarity and the tonal balance is really good with these.

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cg6plESy

Without hearing it myself you may want to consult with @HungryPanda  and @bobeau about getting a toneking to600. From their description and your price point it might be the ideal earbud for your preference if you have a good source for amping.


----------



## Willber (Jan 17, 2019)

kkl10 said:


> Have $35 to test the waters with earbuds. I'm open to mu ltiple purchases, but would rather avoid clutter and pick the fewest earbuds possible. I like variety to some extent, but would like to get the best possible sound quality (if worthwhile) even if that means limiting the choice to only one. Won't be modding much besides rolling foams for now. Average to below average ear size. Value a linear FR without jarring peaks/non-linearities anywhere. Have a preference for analog, buttery smooth, lush sound with realistic timbre, but without jeopardizing the technical ability to be a competent all-arounder. I listen to almost everything. I'm fine with either a slightly bright or dark tonal balance. Fine with either a thick and heavy or a relatively weightless sound. Bass light is fine. _Anything_ as long as it sounds wholly coherent and natural/enjoyable.
> 
> Have very low tolerance for sibilance, shoutiness, honkiness, boominess, shrillness, resonances, and other such acoustic oddities or non-sense artificialities of any sort. I know that cheapo stuff is always plagued by some issue like this but still... The cleaner and more transparent it sounds, the better. I also don't care for head/earphones that rely too much on artificialities or try to show off technicalities at the expense of naturalness, smoothness, realism and/or coherence.
> 
> ...


Snow Lotus 1.0 would be my suggestion. Large soundstage, warm and natural signature, great detail. My favourite of all my phones, including some costing 20x more.
But if you don't like it you will have enough left to try something else. My DIY PK SR2 is still on the way so I can't comment on that. It has a slightly smaller shell which you might prefer.


----------



## HungryPanda

I would say just get K's K500 and let the music flow


----------



## Willber (Jan 17, 2019)

Sorry, deleted.


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> I would say just get K's K500 and let the music flow


Ks500 or to600 that's the real question


----------



## HungryPanda

The DIY PK SR2 is a fine earbud, I like the comfort of the PK shells


----------



## HungryPanda

seanc6441 said:


> Ks500 or to600 that's the real question


 Get both, I did


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> Get both, I did


Eventually haha. Went a little wild with spending last few days...

Just wondering which you prefer (I know you love both) if you had to choose just one, and why?


----------



## Willber

seanc6441 said:


> May suggest you get the DIY PK SR2 version instead





HungryPanda said:


> The DIY PK SR2 is a fine earbud, I like the comfort of the PK shells


I'm hoping this will be one of my better purchase decisions!


----------



## HungryPanda

To be honest Sean I'm happy with just about any earbud if I'm enjoying my music, last 2 days spent with the Faaeal Snow lotus 1.0+ and today I'm using K's K300 and couldn't be happier


----------



## HungryPanda

The Toneking TO600 is a solid, comfortable metal earbud, the K500 are standard MX500 shell. TO600 wins


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 17, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> To be honest Sean I'm happy with just about any earbud if I'm enjoying my music, last 2 days spent with the Faaeal Snow lotus 1.0+ and today I'm using K's K300 and couldn't be happier


Can't argue with that. Half of the time I listen to enjoy and the other half im analysing earbuds or any mods im doing and I gotta say the former is a hell of a lot more fun and relaxing. I find you cannot enjoy music when your modding earbuds and testing them, you listen but don't chill out. So i definately appreciate just letting the music flow sometimes 

Just read a post from ClieOS that the TO600 is both beryllium and Biocelluose, two of the luxury driver matierals. If either is true it might be worth the buy just have it in my collection as ive never heard either in a driver. But I'm really doubting the beryllium part, isnt that stuff hella expensive??!!


----------



## HungryPanda

Well the TO600 were cheaper than K's 500 by over £20


----------



## seanc6441

Listening to Gorillaz - The Fall in MQA on my LG V30 with my modded Mojito. Really found it hard to appreciate this album when it released years ago but listening to it now and it's fantastic. The production quality is amazing too, everything sounds crisp and spacious. Pretty sure this album was mixed on an Ipad I believe I read that before.

Very different sounding but I really think it sounds phenomenal haha.


----------



## jogawag (Jan 17, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> Docomo stock earbud might fit the bill. It's below your budget but it's got a nice analog tonality, balance and is fairly well resolving with thin foams, or smoother/buttery with thicker donuts.
> 
> Buy the original better ones they are NOS/New old stock but i can get you the contact info of someone I just bought one off of. Shipping is like $5 and the bud cost like $6-12 depending on the options chosen.
> 
> ...



I strongly recommend to you "diy SR2 16ohms TPE wire" as smaller shells earbuds.
It has strong bass and wide sound stage.
Please try it.

Perhaps you can discount it to $12 by negotiation.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801646835.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801265552.html
Choice 2nd color on eigther page.
This need 1-200 hours burn-in.


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> To be honest Sean I'm happy with just about any earbud if I'm enjoying my music



I'm afraid I have that same affliction


----------



## kkl10 (Jan 17, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> Docomo stock earbud might fit the bill. It's below your budget but it's got a nice analog tonality, balance and is fairly well resolving with thin foams, or smoother/buttery with thicker donuts.
> 
> Buy the original better ones they are NOS/New old stock but i can get you the contact info of someone I just bought one off of. Shipping is like $5 and the bud cost like $6-12 depending on the options chosen.
> 
> ...





Willber said:


> Snow Lotus 1.0 would be my suggestion. Large soundstage, warm and natural signature, great detail. My favourite of all my phones, including some costing 20x more.
> But if you don't like it you will have enough left to try something else. My DIY PK SR2 is still on the way so I can't comment on that. It has a slightly smaller shell which you might prefer.



I appreciate the feedback. I guess I could get one Docomo or SR2 and one Snow Lotus 1.0+ limited edition (already added one to my shopping cart actually). Hopefully, they won't sound to similar and will have some variety. I'm not familiar with the Docomo, but have been reading interesting things about the Snow Lotus 1.0+. But there's so much stuff like emx500, ry4s UE, auglamour rx-1, HE150 something somethings, etc.. too many options and many conflicting reports. I'll go for the safest route then (hopefully).

Are there any specific or higher quality foams that you guys recommend or it's all about the same and one can just get any?



HungryPanda said:


> I would say just get K's K500 and let the music flow



That's my sort of plan. Just trying to make it easier for my wallet while I can...


----------



## Willber

jogawag said:


> I strongly recommend to you "diy SR2 16ohms TPE wire" as smaller shells earbuds.
> It has strong bass and wide sound stage.
> Please try it.
> 
> ...


I forgot to mention, I messaged the seller to ask which is the best version for a large soundstage. He confirmed that it is the 16ohm so that is the one I ordered (with the red cable).


----------



## Willber (Jan 17, 2019)

For those who have trouble with AE tracking (I do occasionally), this is worth trying:

http://parcelsapp.com/en

I find it is often more reliable and it shows all delivery steps to your door. It works for ebay and other suppliers as well. My link is to the English version but you can change the language. Another good thing is that it stores your tracking numbers so it is easy to check multiple orders.


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> I have been listening to the Snow lotus 1.0+ commemorative edition for the last two days and it is an excellent earbud, I actually prefer it to my Snow Lotus 2.0 as it is not as dark sounding



Excellent to hear


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 17, 2019)

kkl10 said:


> I appreciate the feedback. I guess I could get one Docomo or SR2 and one Snow Lotus 1.0+ limited edition (already added one to my shopping cart actually). Hopefully, they won't sound to similar and will have some variety. I'm not familiar with the Docomo, but have been reading interesting things about the Snow Lotus 1.0+. But there's so much stuff like emx500, ry4s UE, auglamour rx-1, HE150 something somethings, etc.. too many options and many conflicting reports. I'll go for the safest route then (hopefully).
> 
> Are there any specific or higher quality foams that you guys recommend or it's all about the same and one can just get any?
> 
> ...


One of those is mx500 shell and one is pk/docomo shell. So you will certainly do well to get both and see which fits best. Of course mx500 shells open up much more variety of choice but some with smaller ears much prefer the pk size shell.

As for foams, stock foams we consider 'full foams' or 'donut foams' which are medium density medium thickness and they are the standard choice. The difference is one has a cut out middle and lets through more high frequency. Both have roughly similar bass quantity.

 Then there's thick foams like hiegi full/donuts or VE donuts. They work better for slightly bigger ears or to make a better seal. Whether these will add more or less bass really depends on your ear anatomy, results vary from person to person. One constant though is that the add slightly more space between the driver and ear. So this in theory can help add more soundstage at the cost of some low midrange fullness.

Finally there are thin foams like the VE ex pack thins and the aliexpress black thins. These are the most open sounding letting more highs and only barely adding some bass quantity. I find these work best on warm bassy earbuds, they keep the 'no foam' clarity whilst adding a slight seal and comfort, keeping the earbud anchored better in your ear.

Here's the links to foams. I suggest you buy them all.

Thin foams
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cg6plESy

Heigi donuts
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cSFhvxDW

Heigi fulls
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bVPYwhZe

Various colour regular donuts and full foams
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cOfllfwY

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cXn81rGy

The whole lot will set you back like $10-15. It's worth it. Imagine headphone earpads were that cheap to roll


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> One of those is mx500 shell and one is pk/docomo shell. So you will certainly do well to get both and see which fits best. Of course mx500 shells open up much more variety of choice but some with smaller ears much prefer the pk size shell.
> 
> As for foams, stock foams we consider 'full foams' or 'donut foams' which are medium density medium thickness and they are the standard choice. The difference is one has a cut out middle and lets through more high frequency. Both have roughly similar bass quantity.
> 
> ...



All of those links just take me to the main page not the items.


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> All of those links just take me to the main page not the items.


Strange, they go to the items for me. I'm using my laptop.


----------



## HungryPanda

home page for me


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> All of those links just take me to the main page not the items.


I know aliexpress mobile app on android is getting really dumb with its link sharing :/

Not only do you have to have the app to use them, but also you have to press 'open link in new tab' or it will just open a dead end link on the browser.

If there was another way to post ali links on the app that wasnt messed up id use it. I'll fix them all later.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 17, 2019)

Willber said:


> Strange, they go to the items for me. I'm using my laptop.



Using my iPad but will check PC in a minute.  Will check my Android tablet too.  I have not used my laptop in ages.  It's so heavy..old 17 inch.

Edit:  with Windows 10 PC it just goes to the  home page.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 17, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> home page for me


I think you need the app. These s click links are a load of bo**ocks lol

They ruined it after some update, used to work perfectly well.


----------



## DBaldock9

The VE Zen 2.0 Zoe and VE Zen LL that I ordered at the end of last year, before the Zoe was discontinued, have arrived in the mail today.
Using the foams in the Ex-Pack Lite, I installed a donut foam over a thin full foam - and connected the Pure Blue cable to the Zoe, and plugged them into the Balanced output on my iBasso PB2 amp (2x OPA1622).
The source is my PC, playing some Candido Camero High Res tracks using JRiver MC24, with a TOSLINK connection to my FiiO Taishan D03K (Cirrus 4344) DAC.

My first impressions are that the Zoe have almost too much Bass - and they've also got a really nice, wide Sound Stage.


----------



## Zerohour88

ClieOS said:


> The back of the metal case literally say it is meant to be a cheapo model with no warranty with the exception of DOA. Basically It is MoonDrop's interpretation of VE Monk.



aww, but is it any good? though I can't seem to find them on the official taobao store


----------



## Willber (Jan 17, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Using my iPad but will check PC in a minute.  Will check my Android tablet too.  I have not used my laptop in ages.  It's so heavy..old 17 inch.
> 
> Edit:  with Windows 10 PC it just goes to the  home page.


Weird, it works on my Win 7 laptop running Firefox.

Edit: Works with Chrome as well.


----------



## CasstardPie

seanc6441 said:


> Just read a post from ClieOS that the TO600 is both beryllium and Biocelluose, two of the luxury driver matierals. If either is true it might be worth the buy just have it in my collection as ive never heard either in a driver. But I'm really doubting the beryllium part, isnt that stuff hella expensive??!!



Prices for drivers utilising these materials have dropped recently. The Advanced Evo X uses a beryllium driver despite being 60usd, and I believe the yincrow x6 uses a bio cellulose driver in the budget range 

Of course it could just be marketing material, it's possible that the diaphragm itself might not be true beryllium/biocellulose


----------



## waynes world

lyrean said:


> Is Snow Lotus plus much more brighter than regular Snow Lotus? I just received my regular Snow Lotus yesterday and to me it seems to be quite well balanced and it's bright enough but I wouldn't want it to be any brighter.
> 
> For example, RY4S is too bright for me, unbearable to listen to.



You'd like the Snow Lotus 2.0 (and maybe the  Kube 2).


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> Weird, it works on my Win 7 laptop running Firefox.
> 
> Edit: Works with Chrome as well.



Nope still won't work on the PC but on both the iPad and the Android tablet I can bring up the menu to open a new tab and that does work...thanks to Sean for the tip.    If I ask for a new tab on the PC (after right clicking on the link) it still goes to the ali home page.  So html links are best.


----------



## kkl10 (Jan 17, 2019)

*@seanc6441*​
Thanks for the resources. Will look into it further when i have more time. Unfortunately, the links aren't working for me either. I think the culprit might be my hosts file, though.


----------



## DBaldock9

seanc6441 said:


> One of those is mx500 shell and one is pk/docomo shell. So you will certainly do well to get both and see which fits best. Of course mx500 shells open up much more variety of choice but some with smaller ears much prefer the pk size shell.
> 
> As for foams, stock foams we consider 'full foams' or 'donut foams' which are medium density medium thickness and they are the standard choice. The difference is one has a cut out middle and lets through more high frequency. Both have roughly similar bass quantity.
> 
> ...



For me, the links are blocked by my uMatrix security add-on (for Firefox & Chrome).
But if I switch it off for the tab that the links open, it takes me to the correct pages on AliExpress.


----------



## Willber (Jan 17, 2019)

kkl10 said:


> *@seanc6441*​
> Thanks for the resources. Will look into it further when i have more time. Unfortunately, the links aren't working for me either. I think the culprit might be my hosts file, though.


This what I see for the first one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...p-Ear-Pads-Cover-Replacement/32790634729.html

If that works for you I'll post the others.


----------



## rkw

seanc6441 said:


> One of those is mx500 shell and one is pk/docomo shell. So you will certainly do well to get both and see which fits best. Of course mx500 shells open up much more variety of choice but some with smaller ears much prefer the pk size shell.
> 
> As for foams, stock foams we consider 'full foams' or 'donut foams' which are medium density medium thickness and they are the standard choice. The difference is one has a cut out middle and lets through more high frequency. Both have roughly similar bass quantity.
> 
> ...


They all came up for me on desktop Chrome, and they translated to non s.click addresses:

Thin foams
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cg6plESy
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...p-Ear-Pads-Cover-Replacement/32790634729.html

Heigi donuts
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cSFhvxDW
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hie...or-Earphones-Earbuds-6-pairs/32642830876.html

Heigi fulls
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bVPYwhZe
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hie...ones-Earbuds-6-pairs-Eartips/32753761717.html

Various colour regular donuts and full foams
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cOfllfwY
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/20p...phone-Earpads-Covers-MP3-MP4/32671911259.html

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cXn81rGy
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10p...nge-Covers-Tips-For-Earphone/32683389893.html


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 17, 2019)

rkw said:


> They all came up for me on desktop Chrome, and they translated to non s.click addresses:
> 
> Thin foams
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cg6plESy
> ...


Thank you!!! Saved me like 10 minutes of getting regular links ^^

From now on your only purpose in life is to translate mobile to regular links for us 24/7 

We don't pay much but you'll be showered in headfi likes and we'll send you free earbuds on christmas and birthdays.


----------



## Willber

Thanks @rkw, you saved me a job.


----------



## ClieOS

Zerohour88 said:


> aww, but is it any good? though I can't seem to find them on the official taobao store



Haven't really spent much time on it except for the initial listening - so far I'll say it is probably at least as good.

It is not sold by their official Taobao store, but by their other Taobao store (which is operated under their brick and mortar store that also carry other brands): https://gothamearphone.taobao.com


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> This what I see for the first one:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...p-Ear-Pads-Cover-Replacement/32790634729.html
> 
> If that works for you I'll post the others.



That works.  We probably should get some from that link.  We have tons of foams here but running low on these thin ones.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 17, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> That works.  We probably should get some from that link.  We have tons of foams here but running low on these thin ones.



I keep buying 1 pack thinking "100 is enough" but between some defects and the amount of earbuds and mod foams i use these with I run through them fast.

Gonna buy 3 packs next time, I'll be swimming in foams!


----------



## bobeau

seanc6441 said:


> Just read a post from ClieOS that the TO600 is both beryllium and Biocelluose, two of the luxury driver matierals. If either is true it might be worth the buy just have it in my collection as ive never heard either in a driver. But I'm really doubting the beryllium part, isnt that stuff hella expensive??!!



Periodic Audio is a US company that sells beryllium IEMs for $300, so it's not particularly out there for a Chinese based company with somewhat lesser fit/accessories to do it for $100.

I'd believe it.  They're rather highly resolving for dynamics, but I don't know if that's just the case due to the very high impedance.


----------



## ClieOS

Beryllium is expensive if you are buying grams of it. The amount used on each dynamic driver by vapour deposit is so small that you simply isn't using enough of it to make it super expensive, only that it is more expensive than your regular driver.


----------



## DBaldock9 (Jan 18, 2019)

DBaldock9 said:


> The VE Zen 2.0 Zoe and VE Zen LL that I ordered at the end of last year, before the Zoe was discontinued, have arrived in the mail today.
> Using the foams in the Ex-Pack Lite, I installed a donut foam over a thin full foam - and connected the Pure Blue cable to the Zoe, and plugged them into the Balanced output on my iBasso PB2 amp (2x OPA1622).
> The source is my PC, playing some Candido Camero High Res tracks using JRiver MC24, with a TOSLINK connection to my FiiO Taishan D03K (Cirrus 4344) DAC.
> 
> My first impressions are that the Zoe have almost too much Bass - and they've also got a really nice, wide Sound Stage.



After reading about half a dozen comments on my Earbuds Anonymous Facebook group post, recommending that I not use foams with the Zen earbuds, I've removed the foams, and installed the rubber rings from the VE Ex-Pack, on both the Zoe and the Zen LL.
.
Using the rubber rings does make a difference, and the earbuds do sound more balanced this way, without so much Bass emphasis.
*(EDIT: The difference the rings make, is they allow the earbuds to fit and seal better in my ears (similar to using foams), to keep from losing too much Bass.)*
.
One thing that I did notice, is that the 320Ω Zoe is more efficient than the 150Ω Zen LL, and plays louder at the same volume setting on my PB2 amp.


----------



## DBaldock9

ClieOS said:


> Beryllium is expensive if you are buying grams of it. The amount used on each dynamic driver by vapour deposit is so small that you simply isn't using enough of it to make it super expensive, only that it is more expensive than your regular driver.



I remember back in the '70s, hearing that due to the toxic nature of Beryllium (mainly the dust produced during machining), no American companies were actually producing Beryllium drivers.
The only pure Beryllium drivers available at the time, were in the Yamaha NS-1000 Monitor speakers, which I thought sounded amazing - but I couldn't afford to buy them.


----------



## ClieOS

DBaldock9 said:


> I remember back in the '70s, hearing that due to the toxic nature of Beryllium (mainly the dust produced during machining), no American companies were actually producing Beryllium drivers.
> The only pure Beryllium drivers available at the time, were in the Yamaha NS-1000 Monitor speakers, which I thought sounded amazing - but I couldn't afford to buy them.



You can buy industrial quality pure beryllium on Taobao for just under US$200 per 100g actually. Not that much expensive if you consider industrial pure silver is around the same price range.


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> Beryllium is expensive if you are buying grams of it. The amount used on each dynamic driver by vapour deposit is so small that you simply isn't using enough of it to make it super expensive, only that it is more expensive than your regular driver.


Ah so it's a beryllium coating on a biocelluose driver? That's an interesting combo.


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> You can buy industrial quality pure beryllium on Taobao for just under US$200 per 100g actually. Not that much expensive if you consider industrial pure silver is around the same price range.


It's very feasible then to make pure beryllium earbud drivers for high end earbuds. It would be a tenth of the cost of beryllium drivers found in full size cans.


----------



## Zerohour88

DBaldock9 said:


> I remember back in the '70s, hearing that due to the toxic nature of Beryllium (mainly the dust produced during machining), no American companies were actually producing Beryllium drivers.
> The only pure Beryllium drivers available at the time, were in the Yamaha NS-1000 Monitor speakers, which I thought sounded amazing - but I couldn't afford to buy them.



now that you mention it, I actually had some experience with beryllium due to how its used on valve seats for engines, mainly for titanium valves (heat dissipation and protecting the valve itself). Maybe its just an alloy of it, but as I remember, its not that expensive.


----------



## jibberish

Hi earbud crew -  I can't get a handle on the SL 1.0+, they sound incredibly dark to me, to the point where it's distracting.  I feel like everything from the sub bass up through the midrange area where most male vocals reside sounds really nice, and there is a nice wide soundstage.  However it just seems like there is zero treble extension, and it makes everything feel very muted on the whole.  

Are they considered a "dark" earbud?  Maybe they're just not a good match for me, but seeing so many people praise them makes me feel like I'm missing something.

I've just starting dabbling with budget earbuds over the past couple of months and have been extremely happy with the RY4S and EMX500S so far, and have too many pairs of new buds on the way from China right now.


----------



## golov17

Willber said:


> For those who have trouble with AE tracking (I do occasionally), this is worth trying:
> 
> http://parcelsapp.com/en
> 
> I find it is often more reliable and it shows all delivery steps to your door. It works for ebay and other suppliers as well. My link is to the English version but you can change the language. Another good thing is that it stores your tracking numbers so it is easy to check multiple orders.


https://postal.ninja/en/tracks


----------



## golov17 (Jan 18, 2019)

DBaldock9 said:


> The VE Zen 2.0 Zoe and VE Zen LL that I ordered at the end of last year, before the Zoe was discontinued, have arrived in the mail today.
> Using the foams in the Ex-Pack Lite, I installed a donut foam over a thin full foam - and connected the Pure Blue cable to the Zoe, and plugged them into the Balanced output on my iBasso PB2 amp (2x OPA1622).
> The source is my PC, playing some Candido Camero High Res tracks using JRiver MC24, with a TOSLINK connection to my FiiO Taishan D03K (Cirrus 4344) DAC.
> 
> My first impressions are that the Zoe have almost too much Bass - and they've also got a really nice, wide Sound Stage.


Use them (ZOE) without foams, much better.. or http://s.aliexpress.com/ERNr6VJV


----------



## seanc6441

jibberish said:


> Hi earbud crew -  I can't get a handle on the SL 1.0+, they sound incredibly dark to me, to the point where it's distracting.  I feel like everything from the sub bass up through the midrange area where most male vocals reside sounds really nice, and there is a nice wide soundstage.  However it just seems like there is zero treble extension, and it makes everything feel very muted on the whole.
> 
> Are they considered a "dark" earbud?  Maybe they're just not a good match for me, but seeing so many people praise them makes me feel like I'm missing something.
> 
> I've just starting dabbling with budget earbuds over the past couple of months and have been extremely happy with the RY4S and EMX500S so far, and have too many pairs of new buds on the way from China right now.


Try them without foams. How are the highs then? A compromise is thin foams, you keep most of the highs of a foamless setup but you lose some sub bass impact.


----------



## CheeseInTheSky

CheeseInTheSky said:


> Those Docomo earbuds look really nice, too bad there isnt a more accesible to get them.
> Seems kinda odd registering on a Malaysian Forum just to try and get some earbuds



Looks like i played myself.
Contacted the seller and got bought them, lets see if they are a bit good.
The seller was really helpfull.


----------



## dimitex

rkw said:


> You have to provide a lot more information. How much do you want to spend? What is your source (DAP, phone, headphone amp)? What headphones/iem/earbuds have you used and what did you like/dislike about them?


I mostly listen to tidal hi-fi with Cozoy Aegis and Hifime Sabre 9018. Currently i own Isines 10, B&W P7, Beyerdynamic 770PRO (250ohm) Hifiman HE350 and Sony WHX1000M2.

I like sony the most for it's more musical sound and realistic sound of instruments


----------



## clovermau5

jibberish said:


> Hi earbud crew -  I can't get a handle on the SL 1.0+, they sound incredibly dark to me, to the point where it's distracting.  I feel like everything from the sub bass up through the midrange area where most male vocals reside sounds really nice, and there is a nice wide soundstage.  However it just seems like there is zero treble extension, and it makes everything feel very muted on the whole.
> 
> Are they considered a "dark" earbud?  Maybe they're just not a good match for me, but seeing so many people praise them makes me feel like I'm missing something.
> 
> I've just starting dabbling with budget earbuds over the past couple of months and have been extremely happy with the RY4S and EMX500S so far, and have too many pairs of new buds on the way from China right now.



try burn-in them for some time? 
same as my fengru silver. first heard like nothing, then i put them in box because i feel wasted.
try burn-in some hour. they improved in many aspects. and now start to love them.


----------



## GREQ (Jan 18, 2019)

I've just received a Vidos from @Carrow

These are lovely little buds.
After a little A/B/C'ing with the Kube V1 and Sabia V6 I'm quite confident in saying it lies between the two in tonality.

Kube V1 is the darkest, with the most subdued treble (not to be mistaken for a lack of detail)  - kinda like an hd650
Vidos has the most even (neutral'ish/v-shaped) sound between treble and bass. - Kinda like a decent studio monitor tuning or DJ headphone(? ... sorry, that's quite abstract ^_^)
Sabia V6 is just fun with emphasised bass, treble and upper mids.  - kinda like an HA-DX1000


----------



## Willber

golov17 said:


> Use them (ZOE) without foams, much better.. or http://s.aliexpress.com/ERNr6VJV


Wow, they look very porous, I'll get some of them.


----------



## Willber

jibberish said:


> Hi earbud crew -  I can't get a handle on the SL 1.0+, they sound incredibly dark to me, to the point where it's distracting.  I feel like everything from the sub bass up through the midrange area where most male vocals reside sounds really nice, and there is a nice wide soundstage.  However it just seems like there is zero treble extension, and it makes everything feel very muted on the whole.
> 
> Are they considered a "dark" earbud?  Maybe they're just not a good match for me, but seeing so many people praise them makes me feel like I'm missing something.
> 
> I've just starting dabbling with budget earbuds over the past couple of months and have been extremely happy with the RY4S and EMX500S so far, and have too many pairs of new buds on the way from China right now.


If you want to keep the bass and increase the treble, use donut foams.


----------



## nhlean96 (Jan 18, 2019)

clovermau5 said:


> is soundstage wider than ry4s ?
> 
> currently i love fengrudiy mx985 . it sounds better than my ry4s ue, edifier h180 or even vido. now looking to try snow lotus 1.0+
> anyone had tried this ?


These are beast !!!
Don't know if they are related to Tingo TG-38S (A overrated hype 4 years ago). They don't bear any Tingo logo or model number.
The soundstage and detail retrieving are what they bested the SL 1.0+. Bass response is good, punchy and extended but beaten by the Snow Lotus 1.0+. Still the Snow Lotus 1.0+ is very airy and immersive though, these Fengru or whatever is slightly better and the midrange is pushed forward a little bit.
These silveries and SnowLotus 1.0+ are currently my budget champs without no doubt !
As for the RY4S, mine is the redish cable one, the cheapest one. To me, R4YS is far inferior to the two above, they sound drier and tinny compared to those two.


----------



## bobeau

seanc6441 said:


> Try them without foams. How are the highs then? A compromise is thin foams, you keep most of the highs of a foamless setup but you lose some sub bass impact.



FWIW, I found they worked best for me with the donut foams.  Full foams did seem to mute the top end.


----------



## dimitex

Thanks for you folks feedback i ended up ordering Snow Lotus commemorative


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache (Jan 18, 2019)

For me, the regular (cheapest) RY4S is the current <$10cdn champ.  It's a much better sounding bud than the Monk+ (and I like the Monks).  I have some Vidos on the way so I'll see if that remains true in a few days.  The sound quality of the RY4S is more open and full compared to the Monk+.  Above moderate volume though they get a little harsh in the mids.  I like the cable on the basic RY4S as well...decent quality.

I find the RY4S UE version to be very good.  Great balance and none of the mid harshness of the non UE version.  I like it and the EMX500S pretty much equally.  I have a Snow Lotus 1.0 and a SL 1.0+ on the way as well...

I had a set of Panda PK2s as well but one of the drivers crapped out.  They sounded great though...maybe a tad better than the RY4S UE & EMX500S even.  I have a new set on the way...


----------



## tvou88

I have Faaeal Iris 1.0, Snow-lotus 1.0 & 1.0+, 2.0 white, 2.0 Rosemary, EMX500s, basic RY4S, two versions of recabled Vido's (second best). I found that Rosemary sound best for my taste. I don't like V shaped sound signature of RY4S or upper mids spike on EMX500s. Faaeal SL 2.0 white is too mid centric for me. Clear and nice mids and highs but no sub bass. What will be next step in SQ from Rosemary? LG V30, DragonFly Red, FX Audio DAC X6, TOPPING MX3, PC.... for<100$. 
Rosemary are easy to drive beside 150ohms..
TO600s? TY Hi-Z HP-150s 150MKII? Svara L 32ohm? etc..


----------



## HungryPanda

Svara L is a great earbud much easier to drive than the other two. The TO600 is excellent as well


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 18, 2019)

Monk plus is better than I remembered, i take back anything I said about it. Not the deepest bass but it has some punch to the mid bass and is tonally quite good with ali thin foams. Slightly honky/throaty vocals and some uneven treble, but nothing offensive.  Before i didnt driver them out of a V30 in high impedance mode maybe that's the difference. Still missing some sub bass but it's not a lost cause, there's some bass hiding in there and I'm going to find it with mods  it's definitely a mod worthy bud.

Something weird about the VE buds, the driver really rattled around the mid bass frequencies. Like you can actually feel the cover vibrating if you remove it from the shell and just hold it. Very strange. I'm thinking I'll put some sorbothane behind the driver magnet to help control vibrations. But the plastic shell pressing against the driver does a good job of that too.

@HungryPanda I have fallen to temptation! Saw the TO600 for $68 and jumped on it... How much did you pay during 11.11 (or was that not when you got it). The current price seems as low as I can remember, other stores are saying 70-80+.


----------



## HungryPanda

I paid £60.69 just before the 11/11 sales


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 18, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> I paid £60.69 just before the 11/11 sales


That's about 78usd. Which is the price most of the stores are listing, or some say 80+usd. I think the 11.11 price was the same, they just discounted it slightly early.

$68 is quite cheap then. I'll link it incase anyone is interested.

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32917...&terminal_id=52da1b7e1c294451a051020a813037c4


----------



## j4100

seanc6441 said:


> $68 is quite cheap then. I'll link it incase anyone is interested.
> 
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32917...&terminal_id=52da1b7e1c294451a051020a813037c4



No! Stop it!


----------



## DBaldock9

seanc6441 said:


> That's about 78usd. Which is the price most of the stores are listing, or some say 80+usd. I think the 11.11 price was the same, they just discounted it slightly early.
> 
> $68 is quite cheap then. I'll link it incase anyone is interested.
> 
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32917...&terminal_id=52da1b7e1c294451a051020a813037c4



If your link is to the CK Lewis store, I was looking at the TO600 in their store yesterday.
Here's the _regular_ link - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...Impedance-Earphone-With-MMCX/32917530109.html
On thing I will say, from past experience ordering from CK Lewis - they aren't the quickest shop to process & ship orders, and I had to wait a while to receive the items I bought (kind of like when ordering from HotFi Earphone & Headphone store).


----------



## seanc6441

DBaldock9 said:


> If your link is to the CK Lewis store, I was looking at the TO600 in their store yesterday.
> Here's the _regular_ link - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...Impedance-Earphone-With-MMCX/32917530109.html
> On thing I will say, from past experience ordering from CK Lewis - they aren't the quickest shop to process & ship orders, and I had to wait a while to receive the items I bought (kind of like when ordering from HotFi Earphone & Headphone store).


Thanks for the info! Yeah I'm cool with slow shipping, have way to much buds to enjoy and others to diy mod while I wait


----------



## waynes world (Jan 18, 2019)

GREQ said:


> I've just received a Vidos from @Carrow
> 
> These are lovely little buds.
> After a little A/B/C'ing with the Kube V1 and Sabia V6 I'm quite confident in saying it lies between the two in tonality.
> ...



It's been a while since I listened to my Vidos, but I just did some abc'ing of the above as well.

For me, the Vidos are the darkest and with the most subdued treble. Maybe there are differences amongst the Vidos and the Kube1's? Or maybe we are using different foams? Or maybe I just don't know that I'm talking about lol?

I also I threw the Kube2's into the mix, and to me they then become the darkest of the lot with the most subdued treble.

The Kube1's and Sabia V6's seem to tickle my amygdala the most, but man, they are all great.

Edit: I just tried some different foams on the Kube2's, and have been tripping out with them pretty well, so they also tickle my amygdala nicely. I previously told mbwilson111 that the kube2's are similar in signature to the Nighthawks, which is a good thing if you love the Nighthawks.


----------



## HungryPanda

CK Lewis store is ok in my book, Cables I ordered on 11th January arrived in my country on the 17th, I should get them tomorrow


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> CK Lewis store is ok in my book, Cables I ordered on 11th January arrived in my country on the 17th, I should get them tomorrow



Maybe they're being delivered by routing from the East, so it's an extra week or two, for things to reach Houston...


----------



## Willber

Is anyone else seeing this when trying to access their AE account? It's been there most of the day:


----------



## DBaldock9

Willber said:


> Is anyone else seeing this when trying to access their AE account? It's been there most of the day:



Here in Houston, TX, connecting to AliExpress is working just fine.
Is that a display from the AliExpress mobile app?
If it's from a web browser, have you tried clearing the cache & cookies, and reloading the site?


----------



## Makahl

Guys, is there something similar to Shozy Cygnus but cheaper? I think Cygnus is the only thing I regret selling :/.


----------



## Willber

DBaldock9 said:


> Here in Houston, TX, connecting to AliExpress is working just fine.
> Is that a display from the AliExpress mobile app?
> If it's from a web browser, have you tried clearing the cache & cookies, and reloading the site?


Panic over, it's working again.

It was on my laptop browser. I don't like deleting cookies if I can avoid it. Thanks for the suggestion, though.


----------



## Willber

Darn, the SL1.0+ is now sold out (after 88 orders?):

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FAA...arbuds-Commemorative-Edition/32966966924.html

I was trying to log in to order another one when I kept getting that error message. Oh well.


----------



## kkl10 (Jan 19, 2019)

^ There were only 13 or 14 left when I ordered mine almost 24h ago. Also have the DIY PK SR2 16ohmsomethings somethings and a bunch of foams incoming.

Question to those who have heard a legit Sony MH1/75x: which earbud sounds the closest from mids to treble?

Looking at you @Willber


----------



## chinmie

kkl10 said:


> ^ There were only 13 or 14 left when I ordered mine almost 24h ago. Also have the DIY PK SR2 16ohmsomethings somethings and a bunch of foams incoming.
> 
> Question to those who have heard a legit Sony MH1/75x: which earbud sounds the closest from mids to treble? Don't freaking lie to me...
> 
> Looking at you @Willber



the PT15 or Willsound PK16


----------



## snip3r77

Willber said:


> Darn, the SL1.0+ is now sold out (after 88 orders?):
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FAA...arbuds-Commemorative-Edition/32966966924.html
> 
> I was trying to log in to order another one when I kept getting that error message. Oh well.



OMG.. should have purchased it. it's been sitting there for like 3 weeks


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 19, 2019)

Makahl said:


> Guys, is there something similar to Shozy Cygnus but cheaper? I think Cygnus is the only thing I regret selling :/.


Yes, docomo stock is what the cygnus is based off, but i believe it's tuned slightly brighter (the cygnus).

How about the shozy XB?

I have 1 single working cygnus driver, 2 shells and the green oxidized cable.

I have a few spare pk buds and more docomos arriving. I should try to make the cygnus from those. I'll use the original driver as a tuning reference!

I miss the cygnus too. Awesome sleeping bud. Amazing for podcasts/audiobooks too. Vocals sound so good on them.


----------



## kkl10 (Jan 19, 2019)

kkl10 said:


> Question to those who have heard a legit Sony MH1/75x: which earbud sounds the closest from mids to treble?
> 
> Looking at you @Willber



Oh and @ClieOS .. completely forgot lol.



chinmie said:


> the PT15 or Willsound PK16



Took note of that, worry not.


----------



## ClieOS

kkl10 said:


> Oh and @ClieOS .. completely forgot lol.



If you can still find one,  kKs 300ohm samsara. Alternatively the new K's LBB isn't a bad choice either.


----------



## waynes world

Listening to the kube1's tonight, and it seems I'm listening to a 5.1 surroundsound system. Voodoo. Just sayin'.


----------



## exavolt (Jan 19, 2019)

Okay. Talking about Sony's MH-series. Their in-ears (MH1, MH755) are reasonably good, how about their MH410 buds?

There are sellers in my local marketplace still have some stock. I want to try to get a pair but I am afraid that it will be MH1 / MH755 all over again....


----------



## j4100

Willber said:


> Darn, the SL1.0+ is now sold out (after 88 orders?):
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FAA...arbuds-Commemorative-Edition/32966966924.html
> 
> I was trying to log in to order another one when I kept getting that error message. Oh well.



Dunno, but I checked your link an hour ago and there were 5 left, now there are only 3.


----------



## nhlean96

exavolt said:


> Okay. Talking about Sony's MH-series. Their in-ears (MH1, MH755) are reasonably good, how about their MH410 buds?
> 
> There are sellers in my local marketplace still have some stock. I want to try to get a pair but I am afraid that it will be MH1 / MH755 all over again....


Got my MH410 along with my Xperia phone
They SUCK. Literally no bass at all, harsh mid range


----------



## GREQ (Jan 19, 2019)

Included Vido measurements.

_*TLDR:*
Sabia is best detail/timbre (fun signature)
Kube V1 is best soundstage (smooth warm signature)
Vido is best value (warm/dark signature)
eK2 is best for big ear holes (thick/dark signature)_







waynes world said:


> It's been a while since I listened to my Vidos, but I just did some abc'ing of the above as well.
> 
> For me, the Vidos are the darkest and with the most subdued treble. Maybe there are differences amongst the Vidos and the Kube1's? Or maybe we are using different foams? Or maybe I just don't know that I'm talking about lol?
> 
> ...


This goes to show that what you hear seems to be in alignment with measurements.

To my ears, Vido is definitely less treble-happy than Sabia. Sabia is seemingly more coherent, less 'blurry'.
Kube V1 sits between the two for coherence, but has a unusually large soundstage with excellent positional cues that can't be ignored.
Vido and Sabia sound more in-your-head.
Sabia has the best bass texture and heft. A lot of full-size headphones can't do bass with this finesse and energy.
Vido certainly does seem to be the darkest sound, but not in a bad way. It represents insane value for money. I can hardly believe it.



Redcarmoose said:


> I still have two pairs. One perfect and one with a cable issue, which I will replace eventually. They are great and were my daily earbuds for months on end. They seemed to get better and better, but every once in a while one driver would start to distort. You had to tap them on something hard to dislodge it then all was well again. I have never had anything that acted that way. Have you tried multiple foamies on the Kube 2; like stacking them? To me the Kube 2 is best with super thick foam covers.


I've tried a few different foam configurations on eK2 and definitely stacking does help.
I can't help hearing that it suffers from the biggest tonality issues. The dip between 2-5kHz is just impossible for me to ignore. Combined with forward 1-2Khz zone, vocals/mids sound too thick and flat.
Out of the four above, it's the one I would not recommend, however I still feel that my ears are not big enough for it, as the sound changes a lot with different positions when I move them around into places they don't settle.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jan 19, 2019)

GREQ said:


> Included Vido measurements.
> 
> _*TLDR:*
> Sabia is best detail/timbre (fun signature)
> ...



Haha. I did mention that in my review in a section explaining that the mids can come off dark and not make it out to their proper place with the EK2. But I have an emotional soft part in my heart for headphones, earbuds or IEMs that can parlay bass authority. But measurements are always interesting helping us confirm speculative ideas about what’s wrong or right in the signature. I’m thinking about mailing you the Cubu “s” just so you can lay the V1 graph and Cubu “s” graph side by side. The Cubu I would mail you simply has a small short at the plug.

If you do find the soundstage to be a little bigger, and an ounce or two of secret sauce present, don’t reiterate too much, as it will make people curious about something they can’t find for sale. Lol

The V1 and Cubu”s” could measure exactly the same too! Stranger things have happened.


----------



## GREQ

Redcarmoose said:


> Haha. I did mention that in my review in a section explaining that the mids can come off dark and not make it out to their proper place with the EK2. But I have an emotional soft part in my heart for headphones, earbuds or IEMs that can parlay bass authority. But measurements are always interesting helping us confirm speculative ideas about what’s wrong or right in the signature. I’m thinking about mailing you the Cubu “s” just so you can lay the V1 graph and Cubu “s” graph side by side. The Cubu I would mail you simply has a small short at the plug.
> 
> If you do find the soundstage to be a little bigger, and an ounce or two of secret sauce present, don’t reiterate too much, as it will make people curious about something they can’t find for sale. Lol


Indeed, the Ek2 still thrashes the pants off any older buds I've heard for bass.

(Cubu measurements) I'd be down for that. More measurements would do more good than harm I think.


----------



## HungryPanda

Made a few things today, my favourite is my wooden earbuds with 32 ohm carbon drivers:


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> Made a few things today, my favourite is my wooden earbuds with 32 ohm carbon drivers:



For the specialized drivers, like this carbon model, are you finding them on AliExpress?


----------



## waynes world

GREQ said:


> Included Vido measurements.
> 
> _*TLDR:*
> Sabia is best detail/timbre (fun signature)
> ...



Huh! Wonders never cease 

Thanks for the measurements. One of these days I'll have to learn how to interpret the graph's mids and highs.



> To my ears, Vido is definitely less treble-happy than Sabia. Sabia is seemingly more coherent, less 'blurry'.
> Kube V1 sits between the two for coherence, but has a unusually large soundstage with excellent positional cues that can't be ignored.
> Vido and Sabia sound more in-your-head.
> Sabia has the best bass texture and heft. A lot of full-size headphones can't do bass with this finesse and energy.
> Vido certainly does seem to be the darkest sound, but not in a bad way. It represents insane value for money. I can hardly believe it.



Perfect descriptions.



> I've tried a few different foam configurations on eK2 and definitely stacking does help.
> I can't help hearing that it suffers from the biggest tonality issues. The dip between 2-5kHz is just impossible for me to ignore. Combined with forward 1-2Khz zone, vocals/mids sound too thick and flat.
> Out of the four above, it's the one I would not recommend, however I still feel that my ears are not big enough for it, as the sound changes a lot with different positions when I move them around into places they don't settle.



Generally agreed. Another niggle is the linguine cable which also causes them to shift around, so they don't work well for me if I'm moving around a lot.

On a positive note though, after my brain gets used to the eK2 signature, I find them to be lovely and non-fatiguing.


----------



## HungryPanda

yes I did David  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/15-...an-use-mx500-and-mx760-shell/32958362241.html


----------



## seanc6441

GREQ said:


> Included Vido measurements.
> 
> _*TLDR:*
> Sabia is best detail/timbre (fun signature)
> ...


Regardless of whether these graphs are 100% accurate or not in the bass region. That Kube 2 has an astonishingly linear bass response for an earbud. Does it has the same amount of sub-lower mid bass as this chart suggests? Looks almost linear.


----------



## j4100

HungryPanda said:


> Made a few things today, my favourite is my wooden earbuds with 32 ohm carbon drivers:



Nice one! Where did you get the shells? Existing buds?


----------



## Narayan23

waynes world said:


> Huh! Wonders never cease
> 
> Thanks for the measurements. One of these days I'll have to learn how to interpret the graph's mids and highs.



This is a good resource:   https://www.teachmeaudio.com/mixing/techniques/audio-spectrum/

This one is good too if you want to impress friends and fellow audiophiles, once you learn this new language drop a couple of those audio pearls on every post and we will all marvel at your impressive command of all things audio 

https://www.stereophile.com/reference/50/index.html

My suggestion would be for you not to delve too deep into graph interpretation, I was once graph illiterate and despite educating myself I still listen to the music and not the audio frequencies.


----------



## GREQ

seanc6441 said:


> Regardless of whether these graphs are 100% accurate or not in the bass region. That Kube 2 has an astonishingly linear bass response for an earbud. Does it has the same amount of sub-lower mid bass as this chart suggests? Looks almost linear.


To my ears, yes. Absolutely without question.

The bass shaker test vibrates these little beans right off the bat. No rattling, no distortion.
https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php

It's worth noting, my measurements all start at 10Hz, and all these buds have exceptional bass extension, but the Kube V1 is the most noticeably linear.


----------



## HungryPanda

j4100 said:


> Nice one! Where did you get the shells? Existing buds?


 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/15-...sn-t-contain-the-front-cover/32956277065.html


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 19, 2019)

GREQ said:


> To my ears, yes. Absolutely without question.
> 
> The bass shaker test vibrates these little beans right off the bat. No rattling, no distortion.
> https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php
> ...


I do feel these measurements are a little exaggerated though. Most earbud measurements show a mid bass bump around 100-120hz and a roll off below that until it becomes almost inaudible below 20hz.

My listening to frequency sweeps are in line with that too. You begin to hear rumble around 25hz and by 30hz it's present but recessed. By 60hz and it it becomes impactful.

But despite that fact, the kube v2 is still more linear than the other graphs ade showing, with the vido bring the previous bass champ in the budget range. The fact that it is slightly more linear and extended than the vido (assuming you are somewhat consistent with your measuring from bud to bud) means these things might be the budget bass champs.

All in all keep doing these measurements, it serves as an excellent comparison for us 

What are you using to measure them mind me asking? I'm thinking of buying a setup myself, maybe the minidsp ears.


----------



## waynes world (Jan 19, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> Made a few things today, my favourite is my wooden earbuds with 32 ohm carbon drivers:



Wow - it is very cool that you are building those HungryPanda specials. Nice work!

They look great. The important question though is, how do they sound? What would you compare them to?



Narayan23 said:


> This is a good resource:   https://www.teachmeaudio.com/mixing/techniques/audio-spectrum/
> 
> This one is good too if you want to impress friends and fellow audiophiles, once you learn this new language drop a couple of those audio pearls on every post and we will all marvel at your impressive command of all things audio
> 
> ...



Thanks! I will check out those links. I really want to _attack_ my audio descriptions with _brilliant, ballsy_ and yet _coherent definition _and _detail_. Whoa, that glossary is already helping me sound impressive - and I'm only up to the D's!


----------



## GREQ

seanc6441 said:


> What are you using to measure them mind me asking? I'm thinking of buying a setup myself, maybe the minidsp ears.


Measurements are taken with a miniDSP EARS + REW.

It's no surprise you bring up consistency. 
That's really the key here. It's not a perfect tool, so I have to use some license in choosing what I believe to be close to 'correct' according to what I hear.
So far I've measured nearly 100 headphones, iems and buds altogether, and each one has it's own 'trick' to getting it to measure properly. 
I've compared graphs with other miniDSP EARS owners, and with the same headphone we come up with different results.
So as long as you're consistent with yourself and your own measurements, then there's plenty of value to it.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 19, 2019)

GREQ said:


> Measurements are taken with a miniDSP EARS + REW.
> 
> It's no surprise you bring up consistency.
> That's really the key here. It's not a perfect tool, so I have to use some license in choosing what I believe to be close to 'correct' according to what I hear.
> ...


Exactly, it's a tool to measure against other gear you own and to what you hear. Not really a perfectly accurate measurement rig. But honestly when you are just using it for personal use and as a guide for say modding and just general curiousity it seems a pretty powerful too.

How much do they cost around $200 right? That's not too bad tbh. BTW what is 'REW' I'm not familiar with that term.


----------



## GREQ

Room EQ Wizard.
The minidsp guys recommend using it and build their tutorial around it.


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> Made a few things today, my favourite is my wooden earbuds with 32 ohm carbon drivers:



Another question about your homebrew models - 
Have you tried the 400Ω Graphene ($27), or 600Ω Beryllium ($43) drivers that Chitty's Store has listed?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/15-...ance-unit-speaker-1pair-2pcs/32851048067.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MMX...-high-frequency-equalization/32910917383.html


----------



## HungryPanda

Not yet, I do have a pair of 10mm Beryllium drivers I plan to put in an iem


----------



## waynes world

GREQ said:


> Measurements are taken with a miniDSP EARS + REW.
> 
> It's no surprise you bring up consistency.
> That's really the key here. It's not a perfect tool, so I have to use some license in choosing what I believe to be close to 'correct' according to what I hear.
> ...



You should try measuring some T50RP's with that rig. Lol - my guess is that you have done that a few times!


----------



## Tarnum

Hi guys,
I am looking for 30$ earbud with balanced sound (a little bit elevated bass would be nice) and durability.
I've been used EMX500 and the mid is lack of resolution/clarity & bass is a little bit higher quantity compared to my taste.
The other buds I used is Faaeal Snow lotus 2.0, which is rather dark, lack of clarity in mid & no sub-bass.
My targets are K's LLB and HE150 Pro, but just don't know if whether they are upgrades from current budget champs like EMX500S, R4YS UE or Snow Lotus 1.0+ or side-grades.
Hope to receive your recommendation, thank a lot !!!


----------



## waynes world

Tonight's guilty pleasure: Radiohead. Moon Shaped Pool. Sabia V6 Experimental. Wow.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 20, 2019)

Tarnum said:


> Hi guys,
> I am looking for 30$ earbud with balanced sound (a little bit elevated bass would be nice) and durability.
> I've been used EMX500 and the mid is lack of resolution/clarity & bass is a little bit higher quantity compared to my taste.
> The other buds I used is Faaeal Snow lotus 2.0, which is rather dark, lack of clarity in mid & no sub-bass.
> ...


Ry4s w/UE cable seems to fit the bill. Bass is a little tighter than emx500, mids are a little more present around 1-2khz and highs are a little more analytical where emx500 goes for a sweet but bright sound.

Ry4s pushes detail more aggressively whereas emx500 just lets it flow.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 20, 2019)

waynes world said:


> Tonight's guilty pleasure: Radiohead. Moon Shaped Pool. Sabia V6 Experimental. Wow.


Daydreaming is in my top 5 tracks. Ever.

Not that I keep a list or anything. I just have decided so now because I love Radiohead and that track is a masterpiece


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 20, 2019)

DBaldock9 said:


> Another question about your homebrew models -
> Have you tried the 400Ω Graphene ($27), or 600Ω Beryllium ($43) drivers that Chitty's Store has listed?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/15-...ance-unit-speaker-1pair-2pcs/32851048067.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MMX...-high-frequency-equalization/32910917383.html


Got these 400ohms from yuming store.


They look the same as the ones you linked. Going to try them out soon so I'll let you know how they perform in a standard mx500 shell with standard filter soon. That would be a good basis, then i can tune them to my liking from there.

Between that and the TO600 i ordered I'll finally have some very high impedance earbuds again.

As for the 600ohm ones you listed. They are also on yuming store and not one mention of beryllium in the description. May buy them soon to test them out.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

seanc6441 said:


> Got these 400ohms from yuming store.
> 
> They look the same as the ones you linked. Going to try them out soon so I'll let you know how they perform in a standard mx500 shell with standard filter soon. That would be a good basis, then i can tune them to my liking from there.
> 
> ...


Please kindly snap a few pics of the build.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Daydreaming is in my top 5 tracks. Ever.
> 
> Not that I keep a list or anything. I just have decided so now because I love Radiohead and that track is a masterpiece



Yes, that's a beautiful and haunting track. The whole album is amazing. 

I don't keep track either, but I don't think I could pick a favorite Radiohead song. 
If I was stuck on a deserted island and could only have one band's discography at my disposal, it might just be Radiohead's.


----------



## exavolt

seanc6441 said:


> Ry4s w/UE cable seems to fit the bill. Bass is a little tighter than emx500, mids are a little more present around 1-2khz and highs are a little more analytical where emx500 goes for a sweet but bright sound.
> 
> Ry4s pushes detail more aggressively whereas emx500 just lets it flow.


How's LBB compared to RY4S?

Also, unrelated, anyone here has both Ti7 and ACG?


----------



## snip3r77

seanc6441 said:


> Ry4s w/UE cable seems to fit the bill. Bass is a little tighter than emx500, mids are a little more present around 1-2khz and highs are a little more analytical where emx500 goes for a sweet but bright sound.
> 
> Ry4s pushes detail more aggressively whereas emx500 just lets it flow.



It’s a wonder nowadays what sub $10 earbuds can bring us joy with.


----------



## CyberGhost

Is there a definite guide to budget earbuds? There are so many! Is there even difference between them?

I bought EMX500, which seems to be produced by two companies, **** and Fengru... which is the original? Who knows... So I got both.

Now I'm looking at others and there is TY Hi-Z HP-32 and it's variations and...

Faaeal:

Snow Lotus
Snow Lotus Plus
Snow Lotus 2
Snow Lotus 2 Plus
Iris
Of course none of the sellers provide an actual description of what are the differences.

Which one to pick?


----------



## HungryPanda

of the Faaeals try and get Snow Lotus 1.0 plus


----------



## exavolt (Jan 20, 2019)

Received my Kube v1 and immediately listening to them. OOTB, timbre is not quite natural but imaging and soundstage are impressive.

Edit: I wasn't using any foams. With foams they are much more balanced and provide some nice rumbles in the bass.


----------



## alias71 (Jan 20, 2019)

I really like the sound of my Zen 2.0 and I am looking for an earbud with a similar sound signature but more easy to drive without an amp. What do you recommend?
Thanks!


----------



## silverfishla

I went shotgun through all of my buds last night.  About 20 of them.  Using my Zishan Z3 (which I like for earbuds, has Muses02 opamp).  Quick listen with each...the two winners were the Faaeal Datura X and the RY4S for all around sound (impact, bass, treble, mids).
My only criteria for this "game" was to choose a bud that didn't have any...bothers (like too sharp treble, no bass, or flat sound).  I wanted to see what I would choose if I didn't let my ears adjust to any particular sound signature.  This game included:  Rose Mojito, Rose Masya, NiceHck EBX, EB2, both BGVP buds, MX500, DIY Graphene, **** PT15, **** BK2, OUrArt Ti7, PMV, Monk+, Toneking T16, Edifier 185 and 195, Nicehck eb200. The Eb200 (a bud I hadn't listened to for forever) turned out to be surprising good, so that one has come out of the stable.


----------



## jibberish

People gave me the advice to put donut foams on the SL 1+ the other day - I didn't think I had any, but turns out there was a pair in the bottom of the carrying pouch that came with them that I must have accidentally dropped in there. Big improvement in treble compared to using the full foams.  So, thanks


----------



## Willber

Sorry if this sounds like a noob question, but what are the benefits of high-impedance drivers?


----------



## rkw

Willber said:


> Sorry if this sounds like a noob question, but what are the benefits of high-impedance drivers?


High impedance is not itself a goal, but a side effect of using thinner wires in the voice coil, which has some potential benefits as explained here: https://www.cnet.com/news/headphone...d-to-know-about-low-vs-high-impedance-models/. The downside is reduction in volume and dynamics that must be overcome with more power from the amp. You should look at impedance as one of many factors that affects the final result with the system you are using.


----------



## Willber (Jan 20, 2019)

Thanks, I shall have a read.

Edit: This paragraph from the above link probably explains most of what I need to know:

_"The smaller diameter of the 600-ohm voice coil wires allows the wires to fit tighter, so there's less air between the windings, and that makes the electromagnetic field of the voice coil stronger. All of that reduces distortion for the high-impedance versions compared with the low-impedance headphones."_

Carry on, everyone!


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 20, 2019)

waynes world said:


> Yes, that's a beautiful and haunting track. The whole album is amazing.
> 
> I don't keep track either, but I don't think I could pick a favorite Radiohead song.
> If I was stuck on a deserted island and could only have one band's discography at my disposal, it might just be Radiohead's.


Many people don't like the backwards lyrics at the end, the kind if jarring deep strings part. I'll admit it's pretty unsettling but it's what adds the final touch of genius to the song.


exavolt said:


> How's LBB compared to RY4S?
> 
> Also, unrelated, anyone here has both Ti7 and ACG?


LBB is great until you get down to the bass. It doesn't hold authority.

RY4S is tight and punchy, if you mod it you get a sub bass monster with slightly cleaner and powerful bass than a stock vido (one of the budget bass champs).

Ry4s is agressive in mids and highs though, LBB follows more closey to the emx500 with its bright but smooth sweet tuning. I'd say the LBB is very clean and well refined maybe even slightly more than emx500 but id have to check again.

Bottom line is Ry4s has a more analytical agressive tuning with punchy textured bass. LBB is a musical balanced-slightly bright tuning with lighter bass. Both have detail and energy to them.


----------



## kadas152

Hi, I am new to earbuds game. Got Vido and PT15. Very happy with sound of both and generaly like the idea of earbuds, but I am having issues with fit.

Vido (probably any MX500 shell) doesn’t well. It sits very lightly in my outer ear seemingly not having grip and the sound is quite thin. Slaming them more in ear will fix the sound and I actually like them, but it’s no very comfortable and they ten to pop out. 

PT15 seem to fit better. Definitely more secure in ear. And can wear them over ear (awesome with TRN BT10). But still not comfortable for long time. It becomes quite painfull after a while.

Don’t realy know why I am having such issues. Don’t know how much are buds suposed to seal and how securely should they fit if I am not trying to cram them in too much...

But anyway I wanted to try something with smaller shell but PK style buds don’t seem to be in extra budget category and I am out of my budget this month to get SR2 recomended here. I have found out that Qian 39 can be had for $5 on Ali sale now. I am between Qian 39 and VE Monk Lite. Like the gold on Monk Lite but Qian is cheaper. Which one is beter? Any reason to get Monk Lite over Qian 39?


----------



## Willber

kadas152 said:


> Any reason to get Monk Lite over Qian 39?


From what I remember (and I haven't listened to them for a while) the Qian39 is darker and more bass-oriented than the Monk Lite, which has very good clarity in the mids and highs. But hopefully someone will be able to give you a more recent opinion.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 20, 2019)

kadas152 said:


> Hi, I am new to earbuds game. Got Vido and PT15. Very happy with sound of both and generaly like the idea of earbuds, but I am having issues with fit.
> 
> Vido (probably any MX500 shell) doesn’t well. It sits very lightly in my outer ear seemingly not having grip and the sound is quite thin. Slaming them more in ear will fix the sound and I actually like them, but it’s no very comfortable and they ten to pop out.
> 
> ...


Isn't the diy Pk SR2 like 8-12$? Or did they raise the price?


----------



## jogawag

kadas152 said:


> Hi, I am new to earbuds game. Got Vido and PT15. Very happy with sound of both and generaly like the idea of earbuds, but I am having issues with fit.
> 
> Vido (probably any MX500 shell) doesn’t well. It sits very lightly in my outer ear seemingly not having grip and the sound is quite thin. Slaming them more in ear will fix the sound and I actually like them, but it’s no very comfortable and they ten to pop out.
> 
> ...



You can buy a cheap version of SR2 (16ohm) with the same sound quality here.
It will be $8 if you negotiate.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-pk-pk1-pk2-sr2-1-R-l/32922747759.html


----------



## Willber

Remember that the Q39 shell is smaller than the PK, if size is of primary importance.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> Remember that the Q39 shell is smaller than the PK, if size is of primary importance.



...and the longer stem on the Q39/Monk Lite shell makes it easier for me personally to position them.... something to hold on to.


----------



## jogawag

Willber said:


> Remember that the Q39 shell is smaller than the PK, if size is of primary importance.



Q39 shell : 16.1mm
PK shell : 16.2mm


----------



## Willber

jogawag said:


> Q39 shell : 16.1mm
> PK shell : 16.2mm


I don't have them to hand, but I think the Q39 is also shallower than the PK which affects the fit. From memory my Q39 used to sit deeper in my ear.


----------



## jogawag (Jan 20, 2019)

Willber said:


> I don't have them to hand, but I think the Q39 is also shallower than the PK which affects the fit. From memory my Q39 used to sit deeper in my ear.



Is it your personal impression?
Beside it, which sound better?


----------



## Willber (Jan 20, 2019)

Yes, but I haven't tried them for a while. I shall do it in a few minutes.

Edit: OK, I have a Monk Lite in my left ear and a DIY EMX500 PK2 in my right ear. The ML definitely sits deeper and 'feels' smaller.


----------



## jogawag (Jan 20, 2019)

jogawag said:


> Is it your personal impression?
> Beside it, which sound better?





Willber said:


> Yes, but I haven't tried them for a while. I shall do it in a few minutes.
> 
> Edit: OK, I have a Monk Lite in my left ear and a DIY EMX500 PK2 in my right ear. The ML definitely sits deeper and 'feels' smaller.



I am sorry that you are waiting for your _DIY SR2 16Ω incoming._


----------



## Willber

jogawag said:


> I am sorry that your _DIY SR2 16Ω is incoming._


Yes, the TPE one.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> Yes, but I haven't tried them for a while. I shall do it in a few minutes.
> 
> Edit: OK, I have a Monk Lite in my left ear and a DIY EMX500 PK2 in my right ear. The ML definitely sits deeper and 'feels' smaller.



You should also try the PK2 in the left and the Monk Lite in the right. I have noticed that all buds feel smaller in my left ear than in my right.  It is annoying.  Same with IEM tips.


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> You should also try the PK2 in the left and the Monk Lite in the right.


Done. Same.


----------



## waynes world

jogawag said:


> You can buy a cheap version of SR2 (16ohm) with the same sound quality here.
> It will be $8 if you negotiate.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-pk-pk1-pk2-sr2-1-R-l/32922747759.html



Is that the one that you like so much? I see that it doesn't have L/R markings. How does one cope (apart from having to put on different color foams)?


----------



## jogawag

waynes world said:


> Is that the one that you like so much? I see that it doesn't have L/R markings. How does one cope (apart from having to put on different color foams)?


The driver is SR2 and the cable looks like same, so I think they sounds same.
How about sticking a different color tape to an unused Hole in the housing?


----------



## exavolt

silverfishla said:


> I went shotgun through all of my buds last night.  About 20 of them.  Using my Zishan Z3 (which I like for earbuds, has Muses02 opamp).  Quick listen with each...the two winners were the Faaeal Datura X and the RY4S for all around sound (impact, bass, treble, mids).
> My only criteria for this "game" was to choose a bud that didn't have any...bothers (like too sharp treble, no bass, or flat sound).  I wanted to see what I would choose if I didn't let my ears adjust to any particular sound signature.  This game included:  Rose Mojito, Rose Masya, NiceHck EBX, EB2, both BGVP buds, MX500, DIY Graphene, **** PT15, **** BK2, OUrArt Ti7, PMV, Monk+, Toneking T16, Edifier 185 and 195, Nicehck eb200. The Eb200 (a bud I hadn't listened to for forever) turned out to be surprising good, so that one has come out of the stable.


What other buds currently outside your stable?


----------



## exavolt

seanc6441 said:


> LBB is great until you get down to the bass. It doesn't hold authority.


Is it similar to the Ti7? Your description of LBB applies to the ACG to me.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 20, 2019)

exavolt said:


> Is it similar to the Ti7? Your description of LBB applies to the ACG to me.


Little more bass than that. But nothing I'd consider neutral or bassy. It's not warm then rolled off so it is probably being restricted by tuning paper hence being a tight but very polite bass response.

My definition of neutral is much more than most around here though.

I've found through opening up earbuds that most bass light earbuds are that way by design. As in the tuning is restricting the bass quantity to suit the overall tuning.

I'm sure if i opened up the LBB I'd find a fairly thick tuning filter paper. If I swapped it out with a thinner one I'd lose some of the energy in the higher frequency but gain a little more bass.

But it's not a magic fix, if earbuds sound good from mids to highs you will be sacrificing them for the bass or vice versa.

Bottom line is the LBB is not a bassy earbud like many of K's earbuds seem to be. So I'll tweak it and see what happens and report back. Maybe it will improve maybe not. Won't know until I see it.

But that won't be happening until i get onto **** for a replacement first because mine shipped with a defective buzzing right driver. Not gonna risk anything until ive got a guaranteed replacement or refund. As obviously opening the earbud would void that.


----------



## waynes world

jogawag said:


> The driver is SR2 and the cable looks like same, so I think they sounds same.
> How about sticking a different color tape to an unused Hole in the housing?



You have been talking about the 16ohm SR2, but that one is 32ohm. So I'm thinking that's probably not the one to get, right?  

p.s. I can't gamble on $9 lol!


----------



## jogawag (Jan 21, 2019)

waynes world said:


> You have been talking about the 16ohm SR2, but that one is 32ohm. So I'm thinking that's probably not the one to get, right?
> 
> p.s. I can't gamble on $9 lol!



I do not know what you are saying. Are not you making a misunderstanding?
There is SR2 (16 ohm) as 1st option, isn't it?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-pk-pk1-pk2-sr2-1-Rl/32922747759.html


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 20, 2019)

waynes world said:


> You have been talking about the 16ohm SR2, but that one is 32ohm. So I'm thinking that's probably not the one to get, right?
> 
> p.s. I can't gamble on $9 lol!



There are three options... the 16ohm has the SR2 driver.   The 32 ohm has a PK2 driver.  The 150 ohm has a PK1 driver.

I have a 16ohm SR2 from a different listing ... the one with the very stiff cable.  My husband recabled it for me so now it looks like this.





Below is a picture of the stiff cable that was removed


----------



## golov17

alias71 said:


> I really like the sound of my Zen 2.0 and I am looking for an earbud with a similar sound signature but more easy to drive without an amp. What do you recommend?
> Thanks!


Try Obelisk https://m.facebook.com/ObeliskAudio/photos/a.744944332564785/745270862532132/?type=3&source=48


----------



## golov17

seanc6441 said:


> Little more bass than that. But nothing I'd consider neutral or bassy. It's not warm then rolled off so it is probably being restricted by tuning paper hence being a tight but very polite bass response.
> 
> My definition of neutral is much more than most around here though.
> 
> ...


LBB inside


----------



## seanc6441

golov17 said:


> LBB inside


Nice, kind of what I expected. It's quite dense. Interestingly the Ks black ling has a very similar tuning paper, but that has very strong bass and medium warmth.


----------



## golov17

seanc6441 said:


> Nice, kind of what I expected. It's quite dense. Interestingly the Ks black ling has a very similar tuning paper, but that has very strong bass and medium warmth.


30,5 ohm drivers


----------



## seanc6441

golov17 said:


> 30,5 ohm drivers


Do you have different tuning papers? I got these from aliexpress. Easy to adjust the sound with them
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32809...&terminal_id=52da1b7e1c294451a051020a813037c4

Doesn't always improve the sound but if you want more warm or less warm it's a good mod.


----------



## golov17

seanc6441 said:


> Do you have different tuning papers? I got these from aliexpress. Easy to adjust the sound with them
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32809...&terminal_id=52da1b7e1c294451a051020a813037c4
> 
> Doesn't always improve the sound but if you want more warm or less warm it's a good mod.


Yep


----------



## subwoof3r

seanc6441 said:


> Doesn't always improve the sound but if you want more warm or less warm it's a good mod.



Interesting, thanks for the link, will order some today.
Does it only impact "warmness" ? or mids/highs too maybe? (compared to most common original tuning cotton we can find on ali)


----------



## DBaldock9

Spent part of this past weekend listening to various earbuds - and changing / evaluating the foams on them.
Since I had installed, and liked the sound of, the VE rubber rings on the Zen 2.0 Zoe and Zen LL - and since I had another two pairs of the rings (from a previous EX-Pack), I decided to try them on some of my other earbuds.
*
NOTE:  The VE rubber rings are not as comfortable as a single donut foam, but they do provide a pretty good seal in my ears.*
On my VE Asura 2.0, they were OK, but I prefer the slight Bass boost provided by a donut foam.
On my Wong Kuan Wae "Blur 魔音", it's basically the same as the Asura - I prefer the donut foam.
Both my Wong Kuan Wae "Blur hALF/hALF" and K's 500-Ohm v2 have good Bass with the rubber rings, and since there's no foam to diffuse the Midrange & Treble clarity, the rubber rings are a good match for these two earbuds.
.
Now, I need to order some more of the rubber rings.
DIY Earphone Tribe Store has them at $19.48 (up $1 since yesterday) for 10 pair of black rings - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Rub...6mm-MX980-MX985-OMX985-MX880/32538682509.html
If you want black & white, the only place I know to get the white is in the VE EX-Pack (not the Lite pack), where you receive 2 pair of black/white (as well as foams and other things) for $5, with a VE earbud purchase.  
I don't know whether Lee will sell the rings, or EX-Pack, separately - but the standard Monk Plus and an EX-Pack are $10 - https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=4
.
Currently enjoying a Spotify Premium acoustic guitar playlist - DP-X1 DAP (3.5mm TRS) -> PB2 Amp (2x OPA1622)(2.5mm TRRS) -> VE Asura 2.0.  I'm still impressed with the great Midrange quality of the Asura 2.0, for vocals and acoustic instruments, like the guitar.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 21, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> Interesting, thanks for the link, will order some today.
> Does it only impact "warmness" ? or mids/highs too maybe? (compared to most common original tuning cotton we can find on ali)


The simple answer is it restricts airflow. Adding or removing bass below 200hz. More bass will obviously sound less trebley and vice versa. It may have subtle changes to the midrange but for other reasons than airflow restriction.

The thicker the tuning paper/foam the more restriction = less bass

The thinner (or removing it completely) the tuning paper/foam the less restriction = more bass

All bass below around 200hz gets boosted or dropped.

There's more complex things going on like backwave reflection and acoustic impedance dampening but I'm not knowledgeable enough about acoustic engineering to go into detail on any if that.

We just need to know that dampening the front wave (front of the driver) with foam pads etc... reduces upper mid-treble resonances. And dampening the backwave airflow volume reduces bass.


----------



## waynes world (Jan 21, 2019)

jogawag said:


> I do not know what you are saying. Are not you making a misunderstanding?
> There is SR2 (16 ohm) as 1st option, isn't it?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-pk-pk1-pk2-sr2-1-Rl/32922747759.html





mbwilson111 said:


> There are three options... the 16ohm has the SR2 driver.   The 32 ohm has a PK2 driver.  The 150 ohm has a PK1 driver.



Thanks.

You'd think they could make those options a bit more obvious without having to hover over them. Crazy. Anyway...



> I have a 16ohm SR2 from a different listing ... the one with the very stiff cable.  My husband recabled it for me so now it looks like this.
> 
> Below is a picture of the stiff cable that was removed



How do you like them?

P.s. Nice recabling job!


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> You'd think they could make those options a bit more obvious without having to hover over them. Crazy. Anyway..



When we first bought from aliexpress we did not know that sometimes the "color" option is for if you want a mic or not so we ended up with a few with mics that we never wanted.  Would have ordered no mic had we known.  In this case it is for the driver you want... identified by its impedance.  The SR2 driver is 16 ohm so that's the one that has been recommended as sounding similar to the sunrise that is more expensive.

I agree, very confusing.  The one that I ordered was a bit less confusing but it came with that horrible stiff cable.  I am very lucky to have a recabler in the house  I think it sounds great... but I also liked the sound with the original cable but I think jogawag did not.  I just could not deal with how stiff it was.  Marginally ok at my desk but unusable with a DAP.


----------



## Con Par

Guys i'm looking for a set of earbuds under 100$ that has good bass and probably smooth tremble. My sources is my phone and a Topping NX3S.  Any recomendetions?
Thank you very much and sorry for my bad english


----------



## BrunoC

Con Par said:


> Guys i'm looking for a set of earbuds under 100$ that has good bass and probably smooth tremble. My sources is my phone and a Topping NX3S.  Any recomendetions?
> Thank you very much and sorry for my bad english



You don't need to spend 100$. That's the beauty of earbuds.

Just buy a Willsound MK2 and be happy. Believe me.


----------



## Willber

Or buy 50 Vidos.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 21, 2019)

Con Par said:


> Guys i'm looking for a set of earbuds under 100$ that has good bass and probably smooth tremble. My sources is my phone and a Topping NX3S.  Any recomendetions?
> Thank you very much and sorry for my bad english





BrunoC said:


> You don't need to spend 100$. That's the beauty of earbuds.
> 
> Just buy a Willsound MK2 and be happy. Believe me.


Mk2 would be my rec too. Bassy, treble is there but not over done.

You can buy a smoother warmer bud but the WS threads the line of neutral and full quiet well. With lots of detail but only moderate imaging IMO.

If you need very smooth treble just attach a full foam or donut foam to the mk2, bass will become stronger too.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

My shipment of Vidos arrived today (I ordered 3 sets).  I've given them a bit of a listen.  Pretty frikkin remarkable y'know?  I mean these things are not even $6 and ship for free to Canada and man, they sound quite fantastic!  They have nice deep bass, none of the mid harshness of the RY4S and a more airy and open treble than the Monk+.  Budget champ for sure as far as I'm concerned.  The J cable is a little weird and I'm not sure what the advantage of it is supposed to be really if there is one, and obviously the cable quality is really bare bones, but for the money man you get pretty impressive sound quality.  These are essentially disposable...but they don't really sound like it at all.


----------



## jogawag (Jan 21, 2019)

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> My shipment of Vidos arrived today (I ordered 3 sets).  I've given them a bit of a listen.  Pretty frikkin remarkable y'know?  I mean these things are not even $6 and ship for free to Canada and man, they sound quite fantastic!  They have nice deep bass, none of the mid harshness of the RY4S and a more airy and open treble than the Monk+.  Budget champ for sure as far as I'm concerned.  The J cable is a little weird and I'm not sure what the advantage of it is supposed to be really if there is one, and obviously the cable quality is really bare bones, but for the money man you get pretty impressive sound quality.  These are essentially disposable...but they don't really sound like it at all.


Vido with mic is Y cable.


----------



## waynes world

BrunoC said:


> You don't need to spend 100$. That's the beauty of earbuds.
> 
> Just buy a Willsound MK2 and be happy. Believe me.



I can't argue with that! The MK2's are great.

Sidenote: I just got the Snow Lotus Commemorative 1.0+'s, and WOW, they are great! Why on earth would Faaeal stop selling them?


----------



## MisterMudd

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> My shipment of Vidos arrived today (I ordered 3 sets).  I've given them a bit of a listen.  Pretty frikkin remarkable y'know?  I mean these things are not even $6 and ship for free to Canada and man, they sound quite fantastic!  They have nice deep bass, none of the mid harshness of the RY4S and a more airy and open treble than the Monk+.  Budget champ for sure as far as I'm concerned.  The J cable is a little weird and I'm not sure what the advantage of it is supposed to be really if there is one, and obviously the cable quality is really bare bones, but for the money man you get pretty impressive sound quality.  These are essentially disposable...but they don't really sound like it at all.


I'm with you sargeant. I have ordered a half-dozen of the budget earbuds recommended, but the Vido trumps the obvious picks, with the exception of my Snow-Lotus 1.0+ which has exceptional sound stage. I just ordered three more Vido at $4.25 each, shipped free to TN. Love 'em.


----------



## Ira Delphic

waynes world said:


> ...
> 
> Sidenote: I just got the Snow Lotus Commemorative 1.0+'s, and WOW, they are great! Why on earth would Faaeal stop selling them?



Glad I ordered a pair. SOLD OUT


----------



## kkl10 (Jan 21, 2019)

Received the Edifier H180 today. First earbud experience in many years. Fits comfortably with stock foams (only 1 pair included). Very positively surprised by the amount of bass this can put out. Wasn't expecting an earbud to pack so much punch and weight to the sound. OK separation. A rudimentary V-shaped signature for fun vibes. It's somehow coherent despite the obvious limitations in sound quality. Sort of enjoyable... It's a more complete experience than I was expecting for just €9. I wonder what kind of mods exist for this thing.

Not sure what to expect from the diy pk sr2 and SN 1.0+... impressive value if those are significant upgrades in SQ over the H180.

EDIT: Picks up hiss from my Meridian Explorer wth...


----------



## Willber (Jan 21, 2019)

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> I mean these things are not even $6 and ship for free to Canada and man, they sound quite fantastic!





MisterMudd said:


> I just ordered three more Vido at $4.25 each, shipped free to TN. Love 'em.


I paid $2.13 (£1.65) in the UK!  They are marvelous value. I'm not sure how they make any money out of them.


----------



## Willber

Ira Delphic said:


> Glad I ordered a pair. SOLD OUT


I spoke to Faael - they might have some more next month.


----------



## MisterMudd

Willber said:


> I spoke to Faael - they might have some more next month.


Salivating already


----------



## waynes world

Willber said:


> I spoke to Faael - they might have some more next month.



Yeah, they should.

Doing some ab'ing of the SL1+ with the Willsound MK2's. The MK2's are a step up, but the SL1+'s hold their own quite well and sound great, and this is right out of the box. I'll have to report back after burning them in for a bit. Either way, they are winners.

I'm looking forward to a Faaeal shootout between the Faaeal pre-orig Monks, Datura X's, Snow Lotus 2.0's, and now the Snow Lotus 1.0+'s.


----------



## chinmie

Willber said:


> Or buy 50 Vidos.



for me it is better to buy one better sounding buds (let's say a Willsound) than having a drawer full of vidos. earbuds or earphones in general can last for years if we take good care of it...and our listening time are limited, not to mention it will get worse with age..so i try giving it the better sound quality i could

also i don't know if others have similar experience, but cheaper earbuds tends to give me ear fatigues, maybe they have some peaks here and there that's causing this, i don't know. 

price-wise the willsounds is the minimum if i were suggesting someone to buy earbuds nowadays (luckily the SQ on them is not on the minimum side, but rather on the top line)


----------



## Willber

chinmie said:


> for me it is better to buy one better sounding buds (let's say a Willsound) than having a drawer full of vidos.


I was only joking...

Having said that, I enjoy searching out bargains (as you can see in my sig). I've found some real gems with advice on here, and my more expensive phones (AAW $100, B&W $150, AKG $200) get very little use these days. I should get round to selling them.

But each to their own, it keeps this place interesting!


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> for me it is better to buy one better sounding buds (let's say a Willsound) than having a drawer full of vidos. earbuds or earphones in general can last for years if we take good care of it...and our listening time are limited, not to mention it will get worse with age..so i try giving it the better sound quality i could
> 
> also i don't know if others have similar experience, but cheaper earbuds tends to give me ear fatigues, maybe they have some peaks here and there that's causing this, i don't know.
> 
> price-wise the willsounds is the minimum if i were suggesting someone to buy earbuds nowadays (luckily the SQ on them is not on the minimum side, but rather on the top line)



I know it doesn't make sense, but I'm a "drawer full" kinda guy lol. I just like being able to switch things up. And like @Willber, I've been quite impressed with some of the budget buds (the ones that sounds good and don't give me ear fatigue), and I have no problem recommending them. That being said, I have no problem recommending the likes of the Svara L's or Willsounds either


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

i'm a drawer full kinda guy too, lol! i just love having a big pile of earbuds on hand.  also, i have two teens who really don't make any effort to be gentle with the earbuds so having $5 buds to hand out is pretty sweet...


----------



## chinmie

Willber said:


> I was only joking...
> 
> Having said that, I enjoy searching out bargains (as you can see in my sig). I've found some real gems with advice on here, and my more expensive phones (AAW $100, B&W $150, AKG $200) get very little use these days. I should get round to selling them.
> 
> But each to their own, it keeps this place interesting!





waynes world said:


> I know it doesn't make sense, but I'm a "drawer full" kinda guy lol. I just like being able to switch things up. And like @Willber, I've been quite impressed with some of the budget buds (the ones that sounds good and don't give me ear fatigue), and I have no problem recommending them. That being said, I have no problem recommending the likes of the Svara L's or Willsounds either



i used to, but then drawer conflicts arises between me, my wife, and my son to claim treasure storage real estates 

even now after slowly downsizing, i still find i have some that doesn't get enough playtime, but i also a bit attached to let them go


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

waynes world said:


> I can't argue with that! The MK2's are great.
> 
> Sidenote: I just got the Snow Lotus Commemorative 1.0+'s, and WOW, they are great! Why on earth would Faaeal stop selling them?



i have SL 1.0 arriving tomorrow, and SL 1.0+ on the way as well.  looking forward to trying them out for sure...


----------



## kadas152

Thanks for your answers and recomendations. I’ve ordered Qian39 as VE has stupidly expensive shipping to CZ (almost the price of Monk Lite alone).
Now the wait... I like big bass and warm sound but also like bright with some extension in treble... will see how they fit and how I like the sound.



jogawag said:


> You can buy a cheap version of SR2 (16ohm) with the same sound quality here.
> It will be $8 if you negotiate.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-pk-pk1-pk2-sr2-1-R-l/32922747759.html


I thought these will sound different as they are advertised not only to have no L/R markings but to have only 1 vent at back as oposed to 2 on your recomended ones. Or do those more expensive also have only 1 vent open?


----------



## fairx

waynes world said:


> I'm looking forward to a Faaeal shootout between the Faaeal pre-orig Monks, Datura X's, Snow Lotus 2.0's, and now the Snow Lotus 1.0+


 i'm interested in this pre monk+ stuff. Good find! but too expensive shipping on eBay to my country . Any source other than this?


----------



## jogawag (Feb 20, 2019)

kadas152 said:


> Thanks for your answers and recomendations. I’ve ordered Qian39 as VE has stupidly expensive shipping to CZ (almost the price of Monk Lite alone).
> Now the wait... I like big bass and warm sound but also like bright with some extension in treble... will see how they fit and how I like the sound.
> 
> 
> I thought these will sound different as they are advertised not only to have no L/R markings but to have only 1 vent at back as oposed to 2 on your recomended ones. Or do those more expensive also have only 1 vent open?


I confirmed to the seller that "I think this sounds as same as DIY SR2 TPE wire with $15. Is it right?".
The seller answered that "yes, just different shell".


----------



## DBaldock9

DBaldock9 said:


> Spent part of this past weekend listening to various earbuds - and changing / evaluating the foams on them.
> Since I had installed, and liked the sound of, the VE rubber rings on the Zen 2.0 Zoe and Zen LL - and since I had another two pairs of the rings (from a previous EX-Pack), I decided to try them on some of my other earbuds.
> *
> NOTE:  The VE rubber rings are not as comfortable as a single donut foam, but they do provide a pretty good seal in my ears.*
> ...



Noticed this morning that the VE rubber rings have a tendency to pop off of the smaller earbud shells, like the Zen LL (similar size to the QianYun Qian39). 
The small "lip" on the ring appears to be sized to catch on the ridge around the perimeter of MX500 shells. 
But the Zen LL has a smooth curve around from the front to the back, rather than a ridge for the ring to catch on.

So, the Zen LL will probably be getting a donut foam, to help provide a secure fit.
Or, I may try using this style of earbud tip "with wings", since they wrap further around the shell, and should stay on the Zen LL.
.


----------



## mbwilson111

DBaldock9 said:


> So, the Zen LL will probably be getting a donut foam, to help provide a secure fit.



I am happy with normal foams on my Zen LL.


----------



## waynes world (Jan 22, 2019)

kadas152 said:


> Thanks for your answers and recomendations. I’ve ordered Qian39 as VE has stupidly expensive shipping to CZ (almost the price of Monk Lite alone).
> Now the wait... I like big bass and warm sound but also like bright with some extension in treble... will see how they fit and how I like the sound.



I'm guessing that you were looking for smaller shells. But based on your sound preferences, I think that the likes of the Sabia V6 or the RY4S (UE cable) would suit you better. The Qian39's sound very nice, but are somewhat polite compared to those I mentioned.



fairx said:


> i'm interested in this pre monk+ stuff. Good find! but too expensive shipping on eBay to my country . Any source other than this?



Sorry, a buddy had sent me a pair, and that's the link he got them from, and I'm not sure if there is another source.

This is what the ebay ad says:





I certainly have never heard any harshness in the original Monk's, so I don't know what they are referencing there. The highs in both sound good to me.

The original Monk's have a bit more mid-bass than the Faaeal's, but other than that, they do sound quite similar.

Edit: I've been comparing the Faaeal's with the Snow Lotus 1.0+'s, and if it weren't for the fact that the 1.0+'s require more volume to get volume matched, I'd probably have a hard time telling them apart (ie they are both great).


----------



## Carrow

Got my Zen LL set yesterday from @strawed and these things are SUPER comfortable. They're great with vocals and have a pretty wide soundstage off my LG V20. Very happy with them!


----------



## Ira Delphic

Makahl said:


> Guys, is there something similar to Shozy Cygnus but cheaper? I think Cygnus is the only thing I regret selling :/.



There was this - 
2017 New NICEHCK DIY PK2 Earbud

Nicehck had the silver cable version and the black cable. I got both, based on posting back in the day that the silver cable (white) version was just about as good and similar to the the Shozy Cygnus, with identical looking drivers. 

My silver cable version has turned green and still has very nice sound. I think no longer availabe, but perhaps they have an equivalent? I paid around $US22.


----------



## seanc6441

Carrow said:


> Got my Zen LL set yesterday from @strawed and these things are SUPER comfortable. They're great with vocals and have a pretty wide soundstage off my LG V20. Very happy with them!


How would you say they compared to your Zen L you sold to me (and I since have sold on).

I wasn't too keen on the Zen L's tonality. Bit too coloured for my liking. Is the LL similar?

(BTW forgot to say it but got the buds last week. Thanks!)


----------



## Con Par

Con Par said:


> Guys i'm looking for a set of earbuds under 100$ that has good bass and probably smooth tremble. My sources is my phone and a Topping NX3S.  Any recomendetions?
> Thank you very much and sorry for my bad english



THE best thread for earbuds. Thank you for all your recommendations


----------



## bonson

Have anybody information on Q’Labs Athena, (Yuin shell earbuds) ? It is on Rholupat site.


----------



## Carrow

seanc6441 said:


> How would you say they compared to your Zen L you sold to me (and I since have sold on).
> 
> I wasn't too keen on the Zen L's tonality. Bit too coloured for my liking. Is the LL similar?
> 
> (BTW forgot to say it but got the buds last week. Thanks!)



Probably a better-rounded sound - the Zen L was a bit on the thin-sounding side and didn't pair well with the gear I had at the time. LL have a better fit to begin with, which enhances the whole experience of listening to them. Though I might look into recable options as I'm not a fan of the thin cable; it's flimsy enough that I don't trust it to hold out. (I saw you'd received them earlier ITT, it's fine!)


----------



## Ira Delphic

A 2017 earbud that a few years ago was consider "good" is on sale - US$13.59, here.

"2017 New NICEHCK *EB200* Earbud In Ear Earphone 200 ohms High Impedance Earbuds"
It was interesting in 2017 - 200 Ohm at a lowish price. Not sure if it stood the test of time (compared to newer buds) but I still like mine. 
My guess is there are better options now, but most budget earbuds are16 or 32 ohm.


----------



## mbwilson111

@Ira Delphic I saw in your list that you have a Philips SHE3800- recabled. Is it difficult to recable? I would love to do my back up pair.  Actually I would ask my husband to do it. Just wondering if there are any special problems opening it.


----------



## kadas152

waynes world said:


> I'm guessing that you were looking for smaller shells. But based on your sound preferences, I think that the likes of the Sabia V6 or the RY4S (UE cable) would suit you better. The Qian39's sound very nice, but are somewhat polite compared to those I mentioned.


Yeah I know, but I don’t see myself trying another MX500 shell that I cannot seem to use comfortable. I want to try smaller shell to see if I can use earbuds and like them as IEMs... Very nice but polite sounds good to me  I like variety to choose from


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

My Snow Lotus 1.0's arrived today.  I plugged 'em in and listened to a couple tracks and was very impressed.  Great sound...until I thought I detected a slight buzz. So, I switched over to my buzz test track and sure enough there it is...it's a buzzer.  Damn.  I hate that...

They look nice and do sound very good, but the buzz is likely going to just get worse and so they are probably not use-able.  I have a set of the commemorative 1.0+ on the way.  Hopefully they are buzz-free...


----------



## Bobpaule

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> My Snow Lotus 1.0's arrived today.  I plugged 'em in and listened to a couple tracks and was very impressed.  Great sound...until I thought I detected a slight buzz. So, I switched over to my buzz test track and sure enough there it is...it's a buzzer.  Damn.  I hate that...
> 
> They look nice and do sound very good, but the buzz is likely going to just get worse and so they are probably not use-able.  I have a set of the commemorative 1.0+ on the way.  Hopefully they are buzz-free...



ChiFi is like going to the casino, heh?


----------



## Chris674

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> My Snow Lotus 1.0's arrived today.  I plugged 'em in and listened to a couple tracks and was very impressed.  Great sound...until I thought I detected a slight buzz. So, I switched over to my buzz test track and sure enough there it is...it's a buzzer.  Damn.  I hate that...
> 
> They look nice and do sound very good, but the buzz is likely going to just get worse and so they are probably not use-able.  I have a set of the commemorative 1.0+ on the way.  Hopefully they are buzz-free...


That might explain what I've been hearing with my 1.0's. I got the 1.0+ commemorative editions in today and thought they sounded very smooth through all the ranges. I've always described my SL as having a "graininess" to them. There was a definite difference. Still, I've never heard instrument separation like I have on these 1.0. Sometimes it's like listening to a track for the first time again...with a little added buzzing. Overall they still please me.


----------



## seanc6441

Carrow said:


> Probably a better-rounded sound - the Zen L was a bit on the thin-sounding side and didn't pair well with the gear I had at the time. LL have a better fit to begin with, which enhances the whole experience of listening to them. Though I might look into recable options as I'm not a fan of the thin cable; it's flimsy enough that I don't trust it to hold out. (I saw you'd received them earlier ITT, it's fine!)


Better fit? Is it not the same shell or is there a subtle change, thanks for the impressions and I wasn't sure if you had seen my first post or not


----------



## waynes world

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> My Snow Lotus 1.0's arrived today.  I plugged 'em in and listened to a couple tracks and was very impressed.  Great sound...until I thought I detected a slight buzz. So, I switched over to my buzz test track and sure enough there it is...it's a buzzer.  Damn.  I hate that...
> 
> They look nice and do sound very good, but the buzz is likely going to just get worse and so they are probably not use-able.  I have a set of the commemorative 1.0+ on the way.  Hopefully they are buzz-free...



That sucks, but did you try it? ( sucking that is)


----------



## seanc6441

Chris674 said:


> That might explain what I've been hearing with my 1.0's. I got the 1.0+ commemorative editions in today and thought they sounded very smooth through all the ranges. I've always described my SL as having a "graininess" to them. There was a definite difference. Still, I've never heard instrument separation like I have on these 1.0. Sometimes it's like listening to a track for the first time again...with a little added buzzing. Overall they still please me.


Sadly this is common amoung earbuds, but the great sound and value make up for it.

It's not a bad practice to buy multiple if your favorite budget buds. For back ups.


----------



## Willber

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> My Snow Lotus 1.0's arrived today.  I plugged 'em in and listened to a couple tracks and was very impressed.  Great sound...until I thought I detected a slight buzz. So, I switched over to my buzz test track and sure enough there it is...it's a buzzer.  Damn.  I hate that...
> 
> They look nice and do sound very good, but the buzz is likely going to just get worse and so they are probably not use-able.  I have a set of the commemorative 1.0+ on the way.  Hopefully they are buzz-free...


Didn't someone suggest sucking or blowing or something to clear the driver?


----------



## Chris674

Willber said:


> Didn't someone suggest sucking or blowing or something to clear the driver?


I'm definitely going to try that out. The other thing I noticed switching back and forth was that the 1.0 was louder at the same volume knob level and even when it was matched it lacked a lot of the control that the commemoratives have. I wonder if it's the difference in cabling. The commemoratives have the same smoothness and cable that the 150 ohm Rosemary have.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

Willber said:


> Didn't someone suggest sucking or blowing or something to clear the driver?



yeah i tried that on a set of Panda PK2's that had a buzz.  i must have sucked too hard...i destroyed them! lol...


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

for anyone interested, the song Save Me by Aimee Mann is a great one for revealing the buzz.  the first 20 seconds of the track just seems to be a perfect buzz exposer...


----------



## waynes world

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> yeah i tried that on a set of Panda PK2's that had a buzz.  i must have sucked too hard...i destroyed them! lol...



Wow, you really suck!


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

waynes world said:


> Wow, you really suck!



haha apparently yes...


----------



## Ira Delphic

mbwilson111 said:


> @Ira Delphic I saw in your list that you have a Philips SHE3800- recabled. Is it difficult to recable? I would love to do my back up pair.  Actually I would ask my husband to do it. Just wondering if there are any special problems opening it.



A friend re-cabled it for me and I provided an old KZ IEM that had a pretty nice cable. Hopefully someone with experience can chime in.


----------



## j4100

kadas152 said:


> Yeah I know, but I don’t see myself trying another MX500 shell that I cannot seem to use comfortable. I want to try smaller shell to see if I can use earbuds and like them as IEMs... Very nice but polite sounds good to me  I like variety to choose from



The Toneking ROS1 is 14.6mm in diameter vs Qian 39 16.3mm, if you are looking for something even smaller. Nice bud too. You'll find imprpessions of them if you search this thread.


----------



## Carrow

seanc6441 said:


> Better fit? Is it not the same shell or is there a subtle change, thanks for the impressions and I wasn't sure if you had seen my first post or not



Can't recall but I know these suit my ears better fit-wise, I think they might have different dimensions than the L set did.


----------



## 40760 (Jan 23, 2019)

Finally the standard Zen 2.0 arrived today, which will be used daily with my main listening rig.

Replacement ZOE should come in tomorrow or the day after, and also just ordered an AOE for keepsake, since I miss my old Asura 2.0s quite a bit.


----------



## dwayniac

Does anyone know a seller on AE that sells a good Vido? I mean with no defects or irregularities. The one pair I have,one wire to a driver is longer than the other. I literally have to fold and tape the longer wire to make it an equal length to the shorter wire.


----------



## blue_volvo

Ira Delphic said:


> There was this -
> 2017 New NICEHCK DIY PK2 Earbud
> 
> Nicehck had the silver cable version and the black cable. I got both, based on posting back in the day that the silver cable (white) version was just about as good and similar to the the Shozy Cygnus, with identical looking drivers.
> ...



I found that the Cygnus was a nice upgrade from the NICEHCK DIY PK2, but they do have share a similar sound sig.  And I recently tracked the DIY PK2 down online, can't vouch for the retailers though, I got mine on Ali...
https://www.tokopedia.com/tokokerehore/nicehck-diy-pk2-silver-cable-earbud-non-mic
https://shopee.co.id/NiceHCK-DIY-PK2-Silver-Cable-Earbud-Non-Mic-i.86107369.1706720156

Since I own both of the above, I plan on trying to modify the Docomo variant's that were recently discussed here, as it has been inferred they share the same driver (and shell as well).  Which leaves me looking for a cable... can anyone point out where to find a nice quality silver cable for DIY modding of similar quality to the NiceHCK DIY PK2 or Cygnus?


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

dwayniac said:


> Does anyone know a seller on AE that sells a good Vido? I mean with no defects or irregularities. The one pair I have,one wire to a driver is longer than the other. I literally have to fold and tape the longer wire to make it an equal length to the shorter wire.



not a defect my friend. that's the "J cable" the Vidos are built with.  it's weird, but it's how they are meant to be, lol.


----------



## dwayniac (Jan 23, 2019)

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> not a defect my friend. that's the "J cable" the Vidos are built with.  it's weird, but it's how they are meant to be, lol.




I am inclined to think that a whole batch of them got effed up so it was decided to call them "J" cables. lol


----------



## Carrow

dwayniac said:


> I am inclined to think that a whole batch of them got effed up so it was decided to call them "J" cables. lol



Ones with mics have a regular cable I think? Mine did!


----------



## vladstef

dwayniac said:


> I am inclined to think that a whole batch of them got effed up so it was decided to call them "J" cables. lol



Nope, it was a design from the past - the idea is to use longer cable behind your neck and short one regularely. There are many IEMs that used this. Sony MH1c for example - good sound but terrible J cable (and it's also flat which makes it even worse).


----------



## exavolt

Yup. All Sony's MH-series I own, MH1c, MH755, MH410C, are all have J-cord cable. The longer cable, which goes to the right piece, supposed to go behind the neck like some BT earphones.

And my Vido too have J-cord cable.


----------



## Chris674

exavolt said:


> Yup. All Sony's MH-series I own, MH1c, MH755, MH410C, are all have J-cord cable. The longer cable, which goes to the right piece, supposed to go behind the neck like some BT earphones.
> 
> And my Vido too have J-cord cable.


That MH755 cable is a special kind of awful. J-cord AND very short. Great set but annoying to use. I have an extension for now but I have a couple of pairs coming for a recable attempt.


----------



## fairx

Ira Delphic said:


> A 2017 earbud that a few years ago was consider "good" is on sale - US$13.59, here.
> 
> "2017 New NICEHCK *EB200* Earbud In Ear Earphone 200 ohms High Impedance Earbuds"
> It was interesting in 2017 - 200 Ohm at a lowish price. Not sure if it stood the test of time (compared to newer buds) but I still like mine.
> My guess is there are better options now, but most budget earbuds are16 or 32 ohm.


 I still listen to eb200 from time to time. It's a dark earbud that share same characteristics mids with e808+ and docomo (longstem) IMO. The mid bass is thumping hard, if someone looking for something like that the latest sale price might sound like good deal. Hard to amp despite being 200ohm. IIRC it's the same driver as k's 200?


----------



## DBaldock9

DBaldock9 said:


> Noticed this morning that the VE rubber rings have a tendency to pop off of the smaller earbud shells, like the Zen LL (similar size to the QianYun Qian39).
> The small "lip" on the ring appears to be sized to catch on the ridge around the perimeter of MX500 shells.
> But the Zen LL has a smooth curve around from the front to the back, rather than a ridge for the ring to catch on.
> 
> ...





mbwilson111 said:


> I am happy with normal foams on my Zen LL.



Well, while the "rings with wings" hold the Zen LL securely in my ears (especially since I wear the cables over-the-ear), they don't allow me to position the earbuds, in order to get the best seal - so Bass response suffers.
The donut foams ended up being the best solution for holding the Zen LL in my ears, providing an adequate seal to give good Bass response, and blocking the least amount of Midrange & Treble.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 23, 2019)

dwayniac said:


> Does anyone know a seller on AE that sells a good Vido? I mean with no defects or irregularities. The one pair I have,one wire to a driver is longer than the other. I literally have to fold and tape the longer wire to make it an equal length to the shorter wire.


That's not a defect. It's a 'J' cable designed to be worn looped around the neck. The vido with a mic has a standard cable.

Edit: Which everybody has already informed you... I should check the recent posts before hitting reply


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 23, 2019)

Guys anyone know of any other slightly thicker rings than the VE ex pack variant?

Using them on my mojito but looking for just an ever so slightly better seal.

I have that one link from aliexpress
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32324321353.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail&spider=y&productId=32324321353&productSubject=Rubber-ring-for-earbuds-15mm-16mm-MX980-MX985-OMX985-MX880&ved=2ahUKEwiQ4MXJn4TgAhUJjqQKHTZmCZ4QFjAAegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw08A-h0TGD56OfXu680VvqR

in my cart and they may be what I'm looking for, if anyone has bought em let me know how they compare to the ve rings.


----------



## waynes world

Carrow said:


> Ones with mics have a regular cable I think? Mine did!



Correct. Unfortunately it doesn't work well with my Radsone ES100 (some 4 pole plugs work with the ES100, but not the Vido's).



vladstef said:


> Nope, it was a design from the past - the idea is to use longer cable behind your neck and short one regularely. There are many IEMs that used this. Sony MH1c for example - good sound but terrible J cable (and it's also flat which makes it even worse).



Sony MH1C cable = absolute worst cable ever designed.



Chris674 said:


> That MH755 cable is a special kind of awful. J-cord AND very short. Great set but annoying to use. I have an extension for now but I have a couple of pairs coming for a recable attempt.



Hmm, I have the MH755 incoming. Sounds like it might be able to take over the "worst cable ever designed" throne!


----------



## DBaldock9 (Jan 23, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> Guys anyone know of any other slightly thicker rings than the VE ex pack variant?
> 
> Using them on my mojito but looking for just an ever so slightly better seal.
> 
> ...



The "rings with wings" might be thicker, but you would have to either align them for how you want to wear them, or trim the wings off.
.


----------



## 40760

DBaldock9 said:


> Well, while the "rings with wings" hold the Zen LL securely in my ears (especially since I wear the cables over-the-ear), they don't allow me to position the earbuds, in order to get the best seal - so Bass response suffers.
> The donut foams ended up being the best solution for holding the Zen LL in my ears, providing an adequate seal to give good Bass response, and blocking the least amount of Midrange & Treble.



Some of the VE users shaves the wings off the rings because the regular rings don't work too well for them.

I personally didn't find either rubber options (with or without wings) to be comfortable, thus putting up with that bit of sound degradation using regular foams.


----------



## 40760 (Jan 23, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> Guys anyone know of any other slightly thicker rings than the VE ex pack variant?
> 
> Using them on my mojito but looking for just an ever so slightly better seal.
> 
> ...



I've ever considered those in your link, but always found them too costly for me to justify clicking the purchase button...


----------



## jogawag (Jan 23, 2019)

palestofwhite said:


> I've ever considered those in your link, but always found them too costly for me to justify clicking the purchase button...


You should search "sennheiser 538215" in your country.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 23, 2019)

waynes world said:


> Hmm, I have the MH755 incoming. Sounds like it might be able to take over the "worst cable ever designed" throne!



No, it just needs a couple of simple mods... some white electrical tape and a short extension cable... unless you are using it with an armband as it was meant for in the first place.  Or, you could recable it as @HungryPanda did with his.  I have a spare coming for a recable attempt but will leave this one as it is.   Took longer than I thought to get that tape on.

Worst cable ever is still the MH1C... wide flat J cable noodle with a mic that just hangs in the air next to your jaw.


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> No, it just needs a couple of simple mods... some white electrical tape and a short extension cable... unless you are using it an armband as it was meant for in the first place.  Or, you could recable it as @HungryPanda did with his.  I have a spare coming for a recable attempt but will leave this one as it is.   Took longer than I thought to get that tape on.



I'll mainly be using it with the Radsone ES100 which I can clip anywhere, so it might work out well.



> Worst cable ever is still the MH1... wide flat J cable noodle with a mic that just hangs in the air next to your jaw.



<<<shiver>>> I forgot about the dangling mic. Yup, the MH1C handily retains it's throne!


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> I'll mainly be using it with the Radsone ES100 which I can clip anywhere, so it might work out well.



Yes, for that purpose you might actually appreciate the MH755 cable.  Maybe you won't mind the J cable either and can wear it behind your neck.  I just can't/won't  because of  my hair.  Taping it was a bit more awkward than taping the Vido.  



dwayniac said:


> Does anyone know a seller on AE that sells a good Vido? I mean with no defects or irregularities. The one pair I have,one wire to a driver is longer than the other. I literally have to fold and tape the longer wire to make it an equal length to the shorter wire.



Yes, as you now know it is supposed to be like that.  I too literally folded and taped the longer wire. I could have bought the one with the mic to get a Y cable but I don't use mics and this one will be recabled soon anyway.  I would did not want to pay anextra dollar for a cable that will be removed.  Many people recable them.

So this is my Vido in its current state.  I just got it last week. I will post a new photo once it has the new cable. No rush.  I want to get used to the sound as it is now so later I can maybe tell if the new cable makes it sound different.  I have never been sure if I can hear a difference between cables.  Others do hear a difference.


----------



## dwayniac

On a whim,I I tried re-cabling for the first time with this cable to the Vido. It came from an $6 earbud that I threw to the side 2 years ago.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 23, 2019)

dwayniac said:


> On a whim,I I tried re-cabling for the first time with this cable to the Vido. It came from an $6 earbud that I threw to the side 2 years ago.



Were you successful?  The Vido still works?

Great photo... looks like you have a serious camera there.


----------



## dwayniac

Yeah it works but the photo is from the product page of the donor earbud.


----------



## jibberish

Willsound MK2 showed up today.  It was a good day.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 23, 2019)

First 'beta' of mmcx pk earbuds I'm working on.

I'll make the second one soon with some minor updates in tuning.

With this first version, bass punch-solidity and detail are prevalent but need to fine tune the mid range and soundstaging.


----------



## 40760 (Jan 24, 2019)

jogawag said:


> You should search "sennheiser 538215" in your country.



No luck from where I live... 

But I can probably get a friend to send some if it's available in the UK...


----------



## jogawag (Jan 24, 2019)

palestofwhite said:


> No luck from where I live...
> 
> But I can probably get a friend to send some if it's available in the UK...



So then, please search shops dealing with silicon rings in your country with the following keywords.
"SENNHEISER 558452"
"SENNHEISER 563605"


----------



## GREQ

I just got my new set of backup Kubes, and they sound quite different to my older set.
More clear, more linear sound. Overall better IMO.
Will post measurements as soon as I can.


----------



## mochill

I hope I get a bassy kube,  mine should show up in about 2 days


----------



## pr0b3r

Edifier H180, EMX500 (my 3rd pair), and MX760 graphene (Fengru). I'm least satisfied with the MX760. Can't find a good workaround to improve its sound (donut foams, full foams, naked). Not sure if a recable work would add more subbass and clarity to mids and highs. I find them quite muffled and congested on both clean recordings of R&B, EDM, and metal. I love the design and fit though.


----------



## waynes world

pr0b3r said:


> Edifier H180, EMX500 (my 3rd pair), and MX760 graphene (Fengru). I'm least satisfied with the MX760. *Can't find a good workaround to improve its sound* (donut foams, full foams, naked). Not sure if a recable work would add more subbass and clarity to mids and highs. I find them quite muffled and congested on both clean recordings of R&B, EDM, and metal. I love the design and fit though.



If you love the design and fit, a good workaround (for great sound) is to get the $29 version 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...High-End-Rare-Earth-Graphene/32821104494.html

Ask nicely and I'm pretty sure you could get a pretty good discount.


----------



## pr0b3r

waynes world said:


> If you love the design and fit, a good workaround (for great sound) is to get the $29 version
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...High-End-Rare-Earth-Graphene/32821104494.html
> 
> Ask nicely and I'm pretty sure you could get a pretty good discount.



Thanks for the suggestion. I'm actually trying to find a Beyerdynamic DP100 and Philips SHE3800 locally (Philippines) but ended up putting a gamble on these graphenes. I put them on burn in now hoping for any improvement. If all else fails, then I'll probably dismantle them and salvage for materials on future projects.


----------



## Matarro

Finally got my Vunbuds yesterday after ordering them in mid november. Not to go into details but let's just once again state that our dear swedish post office leaves a few things to be desired. Anyhow, the first impression is quite good! A bit rumbley but it works on the metal and prog I've been listening to. I think these are the first buds that I prefer with rubber rings instead of foams but I haven't quite made up my mind on that front. The VJC cable that came with them is great! Unfortunately I'm not using it, instead I'm using a cheap 2.5mm cable because ES100 packs more punch that way. I might switch back to the VJC cable though since I don't notice a big difference so far, not like with for example my **** PT15 where changing to 2.5mm did them a big favor in my opinion. Also, they weren't marked with left and right and that kind of bugged me even though it's kind of pointless.


----------



## j4100

Matarro said:


> Also, they weren't marked with left and right and that kind of bugged me even though it's kind of pointless.



Yeah, but the cable is 

...and my foams. 

Enjoying my Vunbuds. For reasons beyond me, I was unaware they were mmcx. I'm always afraid to part mmcx earbuds from their cables. Just in case...


----------



## DBaldock9

j4100 said:


> Yeah, but the cable is
> 
> ...and my foams.
> 
> Enjoying my Vunbuds. For reasons beyond me, I was unaware they were mmcx. I'm always afraid to part mmcx earbuds from their cables. Just in case...



I keep my right thumbnail a little bit long, to use for prying / popping MMCX connectors loose from my earbuds & earphones.  
It was after the MMCX jack pulled out of one of my PT15 earbuds, that I became more vigilant.  
Those particular jacks are smooth, without ridges or lips to catch on the plastic bushing, so they're just held in by friction.


----------



## GREQ

So I've done a measure of my 2nd Kubes, and I've learned something from it.
Firstly the individual sets of buds.
  

And then both buds average responses (L/R average)
Orange = 1st copy
Purple = 2nd copy
 
On 'paper' they look about the same. 

To my ears as stated earlier, I really thought the 2nd one was the clearer, and slightly brighter of the two (better sounding overall).
Took me a little while to realise that what I was hearing was not a difference between the buds, but the difference in age between the two foams, even though they were identical.

The older foams on the older Kube (only a few months) do seem to make a duller sound.
Be it a mix of age compression, getting loose over time or just getting filled with ear juice... who knows.

After putting on fresh foams, both Kubes became just about indistinguishable. 
So that's good news all around I think.


----------



## waynes world (Jan 24, 2019)

GREQ said:


> So I've done a measure of my 2nd Kubes, and I've learned something from it.
> Firstly the individual sets of buds.
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, very interesting. You almost started a huge selloff of original Kube's lol!

Thankfully in your tests you are trying to minimize factors that can come into play, and you were clever to catch that about the foams. Good catch!

It sure is amazing in general how many factors affect what we are hearing:
- our individual hearing
- audio source and chain
- synergy of chain and buds
- eq (or something else) accidentally turned on without knowing it
- quality of files and mastering of files
- no foams, full foams, donut foams
- quality and thickness of said foams
- mood
- most importantly: number of cocktails in the system

I'm sure I'm missing a few!


----------



## waynes world

Matarro said:


> Finally got my Vunbuds yesterday after ordering them in mid november. Not to go into details but let's just once again state that our dear swedish post office leaves a few things to be desired. Anyhow, the first impression is quite good! A bit rumbley but it works on the metal and prog I've been listening to. I think these are the first buds that I prefer with rubber rings instead of foams but I haven't quite made up my mind on that front. The VJC cable that came with them is great! Unfortunately I'm not using it, instead I'm using a cheap 2.5mm cable because ES100 packs more punch that way. I might switch back to the VJC cable though since I don't notice a big difference so far, not like with for example my **** PT15 where changing to 2.5mm did them a big favor in my opinion. Also, they weren't marked with left and right and that kind of bugged me even though it's kind of pointless.



Somebody need to get both the Vunbuds and the stock Sabia V6 Experimentals and compare. Still loving my Sabias!


----------



## cathee

Quick question: what are the TOTL buds right now? 

I tried the ZoomFred and while sonically superb, it was not very portable. I had some fit and use issues with the Penon BS1 too. Mojito was my favorite so far but Rose build quality is a nightmare. 

Any recommendations? Foam or foamless, I think my ears like a EMX500 type shell best.


----------



## DBaldock9

cathee said:


> Quick question: what are the TOTL buds right now?
> 
> I tried the ZoomFred and while sonically superb, it was not very portable. I had some fit and use issues with the Penon BS1 too. Mojito was my favorite so far but Rose build quality is a nightmare.
> 
> Any recommendations? Foam or foamless, I think my ears like a EMX500 type shell best.



I haven't heard anything that's more (both are under $200) expensive than the VE Zen 2.0 ZOE (recently discontinued), or the Wong Kuan Wae "Blur hALF/hALF"  - but I'm impressed by the sound of each of them.


----------



## cathee

DBaldock9 said:


> I haven't heard anything that's more (both are under $200) expensive than the VE Zen 2.0 ZOE (recently discontinued), or the Wong Kuan Wae "Blur hALF/hALF"  - but I'm impressed by the sound of each of them.



I've been very tempted by those metal Blurs. Do you just drop him a DM on Instagram to order?


----------



## DBaldock9

cathee said:


> I've been very tempted by those metal Blurs. Do you just drop him a DM on Instagram to order?



Yes Wong can be contacted on Instagram, or on Facebook (I used Facebook).
He will work with you to best provide the tuning that you want, along with the cable type, and connectors that you prefer.


----------



## cathee

DBaldock9 said:


> Yes Wong can be contacted on Instagram, or on Facebook (I used Facebook).
> He will work with you to *best provide the tuning that you want, along with the cable type, and connectors that you prefer*.


----------



## mochill

I like the kube,  they are my sound signature. Love the orange color too.


----------



## Matarro

j4100 said:


> *Yeah, but the cable is
> 
> ...and my foams.*
> 
> Enjoying my Vunbuds. For reasons beyond me, I was unaware they were mmcx. I'm always afraid to part mmcx earbuds from their cables. Just in case...



Exactly, that's why it's pointless that it bugs me. Some kind of OCD I guess.  Honestly it's never occurred to me that symmetrical mmcx buds don't have to be marked L/R, feels wrong.



waynes world said:


> Somebody need to get both the Vunbuds and the stock Sabia V6 Experimentals and compare. Still loving my Sabias!



That would be interesting! I guess it's not possible to order the V6 outside of Asia? The way things are atm I don't want to order such a cheap earbud unless I'm getting something else as well. I'm kind of crap at reviews though so hopefully someone else will beat me to it.


----------



## nick n (Jan 24, 2019)

waynes world said:


> Somebody need to get both the Vunbuds and the stock Sabia V6 Experimentals and compare. Still loving my Sabias!



I see the Vunbuds are not at  Rholupat now.  I am at the point where  these Sabia sound so good it might be fun to get a tricked out set just to have . Are you aware of any other places to find the Vunbud waynesworld?
Or if it is a periodic/cyclical availability at Rholupat or simply no more?




mochill said:


> I like the kube,  they are my sound signature. Love the orange color too.


did you recieve yours? ( I assume so )


----------



## waynes world

nick n said:


> I see the Vunbuds are not at  Rholupat now.  I am at the point where  these Sabia sound so good it might be fun to get a tricked out set just to have .



Yes. I think they were 2.5mm balanced as well, which I'd enjoy running off of the ES100. 

It would however be nice to know what the differences are sonically.



> Are you aware of any other places to find the Vunbud waynesworld?
> Or if it is a periodic/cyclical availability at Rholupat or simply no more?



No, I'm not aware of anywhere other than Rholupat. If a bunch of us begged, he'd probably come up with some more.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

None of Elibud stuff is available anymore on Rholupat. 

Im glad I got the VUNBUD when I did. It started off as a treacherous journey but has since ended up being a very nice affair.


----------



## mochill

nick n said:


> I see the Vunbuds are not at  Rholupat now.  I am at the point where  these Sabia sound so good it might be fun to get a tricked out set just to have . Are you aware of any other places to find the Vunbud waynesworld?
> Or if it is a periodic/cyclical availability at Rholupat or simply no more?
> 
> 
> ...


Yes I did


----------



## 40760

jogawag said:


> So then, please search shops dealing with silicon rings in your country with the following keywords.
> "SENNHEISER 558452"
> "SENNHEISER 563605"



Still nothing... but I did find some from a UK store that ships to my country...


----------



## antdroid

I picked up two buds from Faaeal off amazon this week.

Datura X -- this one has the most awesome build for the price but it flat out sounds like hot garbage. There's zero bass. No mids. Veiled. Missing sparkle. I mean, I dont even know how you can even whatever is coming out of it music.

Iris - This was only $7.99? It sounds really good for $8! It has good treble extension and impactful bass and wide soundstage. V-shaped, but with good clarity. I recommend this one. It's up there with the RW-9 and X6 for my favorite budget picks.


----------



## j4100

nick n said:


> Are you aware of any other places to find the Vunbud waynesworld?
> Or if it is a periodic/cyclical availability at Rholupat or simply no more?



You could drop Adhi at Rholupat a message asking if any more Vunbuds turn up, to let you know. That's how I got mine.


----------



## Hououin Kyouma

antdroid said:


> I picked up two buds from Faaeal off amazon this week.
> 
> Datura X -- this one has the most awesome build for the price but it flat out sounds like hot garbage. There's zero bass. No mids. Veiled. Missing sparkle. I mean, I dont even know how you can even whatever is coming out of it music.
> 
> Iris - This was only $7.99? It sounds really good for $8! It has good treble extension and impactful bass and wide soundstage. V-shaped, but with good clarity. I recommend this one. It's up there with the RW-9 and X6 for my favorite budget picks.


You picked up two worst buds from faaeal lmao  snow lotus 1.0 2.5mm balanced > snow lotus 1.0+ > 400ohm faaeal > 150ohm rosemary > narcissus 300ohm >>> snow lotus 1.0 > snow lotus 2.0 >.......>>>>>> iris > datura x


----------



## chinmie

antdroid said:


> I picked up two buds from Faaeal off amazon this week.
> 
> Datura X -- this one has the most awesome build for the price but it flat out sounds like hot garbage. There's zero bass. No mids. Veiled. Missing sparkle. I mean, I dont even know how you can even whatever is coming out of it music.
> 
> Iris - This was only $7.99? It sounds really good for $8! It has good treble extension and impactful bass and wide soundstage. V-shaped, but with good clarity. I recommend this one. It's up there with the RW-9 and X6 for my favorite budget picks.



the Datura should have bass. quite ample amount of midbass. it is not a sparkly earbud, but more of a warm sounding analog cassette tape-y one. 

in fact the first time i got it i can only use it without foams because of the midbass amount. after a few hours the bass lessened and i put on a thin monk like foams on them


----------



## drey101 (Jan 25, 2019)

Edit: I'll just open up the earbuds first this weekend and post my questions afterwards


----------



## mbwilson111

antdroid said:


> Datura X -- this one has the most awesome build for the price but it flat out sounds like hot garbage. There's zero bass. No mids. Veiled. Missing sparkle. I mean, I dont even know how you can even whatever is coming out of it music.




If it is THAT bad, maybe it is defective.   I like mine..music comes out of it


----------



## DBaldock9

DBaldock9 said:


> Spent part of this past weekend listening to various earbuds - and changing / evaluating the foams on them.
> Since I had installed, and liked the sound of, the VE rubber rings on the Zen 2.0 Zoe and Zen LL - and since I had another two pairs of the rings (from a previous EX-Pack), I decided to try them on some of my other earbuds.
> ...
> Now, I need to order some more of the rubber rings.
> ...



Asked on the VE Facebook page, and Lee said that the Black / White Rubber Rings aren't really for sale separately - but that he'd include some extra rings with my next purchase.
.
So, even though I really don't need any more earbuds (especially since I've got parts to assemble more than a dozen pairs...  ), I decided to get a set of the VE Asura 2.0s AOE (just in case Lee discontinues the Asura model).
I *really* like the quality of the Midrange & Treble on my Asura 2.0 (2.5mm TRRS), and I hope the newer 2.0s AOE, with removable cable, is even better (and maybe has slightly more Bass).


----------



## 40760

DBaldock9 said:


> Asked on the VE Facebook page, and Lee said that the Black / White Rubber Rings aren't really for sale separately - but that he'd include some extra rings with my next purchase.
> .
> So, even though I really don't need any more earbuds (especially since I've got parts to assemble more than a dozen pairs...  ), I decided to get a set of the VE Asura 2.0s AOE (just in case Lee discontinues the Asura model).
> I *really* like the quality of the Midrange & Treble on my Asura 2.0 (2.5mm TRRS), and I hope the newer 2.0s AOE, with removable cable, is even better (and maybe has slightly more Bass).



The Asura 2.0s is one of my favourite earbuds and perhaps also the most neutral and accurate sounding one I have. Some say it lacks in bass, but I don't find that so at all.

That being said, mine met with a bit of a mishap and now I have an AOE ordered and incoming as well. Yesterday's parcel carrying the replacement ZOE was damaged in transit, so another one will be sent along with my AOE.

And now for the wait... Luckily EMS is not that bad. Maybe it's also time for me to dig out all the EX-PACKs that I've acquired over the years and experiment with them again...


----------



## antdroid

This was the Datura-X description on Amazon


Descriptions:
The sound：Very clear, full, delicate, natural,immersing and detailed, large sound field ,good positioned.
The bass: *Not have strong bass*. But clear,deep,bouncy. If you like heavy bass, please don't buy it.
The voice: Close to the ear、clear details、warm
The high pitch：natural，clear details

I was expecting a neutral ear bud... But it was meh. Could be defective. I did read reviews saying it was very bassy which contradicts the companies description.

I also just picked up whatever ear buds had free same day shipping.


----------



## exavolt (Jan 25, 2019)

OURART ACG is the biggest revelation for me so far, which is about transparency.

The ACG have some negatives to me -- the sub-bass is too fast (it's there but no decay), mids is slightly recessed, super tight MMCX, sharp edges on the shells -- but the transparent imaging makes me wanted to listen to them again and again -- I even ignored my one week old, more expensive Kanas for the ACG. Out of their pluses, one thing I really like from the ACG is how they render cymbal sounds; I can't tell which is which because I am not a musician, but I can tell if the drummer is hitting different cymbals.

Now I am seeing my other items differently because they are not as transparent as the ACG.

So guys, is there any other buds with similar or better transparency?

What's the most transparent sounding buds you've listened to?

Edit: added alternative question.


----------



## Carrow

I needed a re-up on Hiegi foams (fulls and donuts), ordered them at the weekend. Don't ask me how, but they arrived today after only being shipped from Hong Kong on TUESDAY. What the hell?


----------



## Ira Delphic

antdroid said:


> This was the Datura-X description on Amazon
> 
> 
> Descriptions:
> ...



These must not have been available for next day shipping at the time from Amazon US - 
*FAAEAL Snow-lotus 1.0/1.0+ HiFi Earphone 64 Ohm DIY Heavy Bass Sound Quality Music Earphones DJ Earphones (Snow-lotus 1.0, Black) $9.99*

I noticed the above but opted for the Commemorative Edition for a dollar more from Ali - $10.99. The 1.0 from Amazon with Prime still in stock if anyone needs a pair. Not sure if I understand the 1 vs. 1+ ...


----------



## antdroid

Ira Delphic said:


> These must not have been available for next day shipping at the time from Amazon US -
> *FAAEAL Snow-lotus 1.0/1.0+ HiFi Earphone 64 Ohm DIY Heavy Bass Sound Quality Music Earphones DJ Earphones (Snow-lotus 1.0, Black) $9.99*
> 
> I noticed the above but opted for the Commemorative Edition for a dollar more from Ali - $10.99. The 1.0 from Amazon with Prime still in stock if anyone needs a pair. Not sure if I understand the 1 vs. 1+ ...



Yeah those were only available for normal prime shipping when I ordered the Iris in my area. I wanted something cheap and same day shipping to get me over the minimum required purchase amount to qualify for free same day. Heh this is how I rack up so much junk lol


----------



## Ira Delphic

Hououin Kyouma said:


> You picked up two worst buds from faaeal lmao  snow lotus 1.0 2.5mm balanced > snow lotus 1.0+ > 400ohm faaeal > 150ohm rosemary > narcissus 300ohm >>> snow lotus 1.0 > snow lotus 2.0 >.......>>>>>> iris > datura x



Ouch! Nothing like rubbing it in. Kind of confusing. Has anyone else compared SL 1.0 to 1.0+?
As I type this listening to live Animal Collective with my cheap Vido's and not sure if any earbud would make it sound better!


----------



## chinmie

antdroid said:


> This was the Datura-X description on Amazon
> 
> 
> Descriptions:
> ...



that descriptions are indeed a little misleading


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 25, 2019)

Speaking of Vidos... Mine has just been recabled today by @HungryPanda.  Working well, sounding great.  I bought the white Vido with this cable in mind.    Vido drivers are fragile so recabling them is a challenge.   Maybe Panda will comment on the details.






The DAP is the Hidizs AP200


----------



## GREQ (Jan 25, 2019)

Is it easy to re-cable these EMX-500 shells?
I'm guessing the drivers+'acoustic lens/baffle' just pop out with a bit of force...?


----------



## FastAndClean

exavolt said:


> OURART ACG is the biggest revelation for me so far, which is about transparency.
> 
> The ACG have some negatives to me -- the sub-bass is too fast (it's there but no decay), mids is slightly recessed, super tight MMCX, sharp edges on the shells -- but the transparent imaging makes me wanted to listen to them again and again -- I even ignored my one week old, more expensive Kanas for the ACG. Out of their pluses, one thing I really like from the ACG is how they render cymbal sounds; I can't tell which is which because I am not a musician, but I can tell if the drummer is hitting different cymbals.
> 
> ...


i have them too, and KP, ACG are excellent, i don't have a lot of experience with earbuds but those sound like a open back clean full size headphone, very impressive soundstage and imaging


----------



## pr0b3r

GREQ said:


> Is it easy to re-cable these EMX-500 shells?
> I'm guessing the drivers+'acoustic lens/baffle' just pop out with a bit of force...?



I had an EMX500 recabled by my friend.  He told me that it was too difficult to take apart because of the adhesive.  He's a seasoned DIYer since Headphiles days so I was confident he could easily do the job.  Well, he did it but since the shell was too brittle, the lips got damaged easily when he took it apart.  The sound also turned out bad and I think that it was because the EMX drivers were picky on the type of cable you attach on it.  It was also echoed by other DIYers here.  So, I think it will depend on how much and what kind of adhesive was put on the EMX-type bud you're going to take apart.


----------



## Ira Delphic

mbwilson111 said:


> Speaking of Vidos... Mine has just been recabled today by @HungryPanda.  Working well, sounding great.  I bought the white Vido with this cable in mind.    Vido drivers are fragile so recabling them is a challenge.   Maybe Panda will comment on the details.
> 
> The DAP is the Hidizs AP200



A nice alternative to the Vido is Yincrow x6. To my ears similar sound. and the build quality is a step up - aesthetics maybe - cable, plug are a step up. and no J. For fit both work for me.


----------



## seanc6441

pr0b3r said:


> I had an EMX500 recabled by my friend.  He told me that it was too difficult to take apart because of the adhesive.  He's a seasoned DIYer since Headphiles days so I was confident he could easily do the job.  Well, he did it but since the shell was too brittle, the lips got damaged easily when he took it apart.  The sound also turned out bad and I think that it was because the EMX drivers were picky on the type of cable you attach on it.  It was also echoed by other DIYers here.  So, I think it will depend on how much and what kind of adhesive was put on the EMX-type bud you're going to take apart.


More likely it sounded worse because the damage to the lip ruined the airtight seal. Or the cable was of a thicker/thinner gauge creating a different level of dampening to the back wave air pressure which would have a notable effect on the sound.

I have a hard time believing a properly functioning cable can ruin the sound.


----------



## pr0b3r

seanc6441 said:


> More likely it sounded worse because the damage to the lip ruined the airtight seal. Or the cable was of a thicker/thinner gauge creating a different level of dampening to the back wave air pressure which would have a notable effect on the sound.
> 
> I have a hard time believing a properly functioning cable can ruin the sound.



I'm inclined to believe that it was the cable since the shell's lip wasn't that badly damaged.  The sound was still even on both left and right, if I'm hearing correctly.  Another thing why I think it's the cable is because I had him use a stock 2.5mm cable from my old TY Hi-Z.  It was a lot more thin compared to the machine braided cable on a stock EMX500.


----------



## pr0b3r

By the way, are there any good sounding but cheap earbuds in Japan that are easily accessible on Amazon or Rakuten (or any other local online stores)?  I have a friend (who's not into audio stuff) who might be able to order for me.  Any suggestions?  Please no skyrocketing priced buds!  lol


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 25, 2019)

pr0b3r said:


> I'm inclined to believe that it was the cable since the shell's lip wasn't that badly damaged.  The sound was still even on both left and right, if I'm hearing correctly.  Another thing why I think it's the cable is because I had him use a stock 2.5mm cable from my old TY Hi-Z.  It was a lot more thin compared to the machine braided cable on a stock EMX500.


Then it's a faulty cable maybe. I've tried horribly flimsy cheap cables on drivers to test if they are working and it doesn't ruin the sound as you are suggesting. I'm not saying it will sound perfect but it definitely sounds as expected.

Whether you agree with cables changing sound is not relevant, cheap cables won't destroy the sound that much from what I've observed. You get generally the same basic stock sound regardless of which budget cable you use unless it's faulty.

Just my two cents.


----------



## pr0b3r

seanc6441 said:


> Then it's a faulty cable maybe. I've tried horribly flimsy cheao cables on drivers to test if they are working and it doesn't ruin the sound as you are suggesting.
> 
> Whether you agree with cables changing sound is not relevant, cheap cables won't destroy the sound that much from what I've observed. You get generally the same basic stock sound regardless of which budget cable you use unless it's faulty.
> 
> Just my two cents.



I may never find out what really caused the bad sound unless I repeat the same scenario.  I just bought another pair of EMX and chose to forget the ruined unit.  Good thing these buds still come cheap.  Thanks for your input, by the way.


----------



## silverfishla

pr0b3r said:


> I'm inclined to believe that it was the cable since the shell's lip wasn't that badly damaged.  The sound was still even on both left and right, if I'm hearing correctly.  Another thing why I think it's the cable is because I had him use a stock 2.5mm cable from my old TY Hi-Z.  It was a lot more thin compared to the machine braided cable on a stock EMX500.


Maybe he wired them wrong.  That can easily be done with 2.5 trrs.


----------



## Hououin Kyouma (Jan 25, 2019)

Ira Delphic said:


> Ouch! Nothing like rubbing it in. Kind of confusing. Has anyone else compared SL 1.0 to 1.0+?
> As I type this listening to live Animal Collective with my cheap Vido's and not sure if any earbud would make it sound better!


SL 1.0+ is *far *more better sound wise: much better soundstage, much better mids, better clarity, better separation, bass is more punchy and very well response... treble extension is also better lmao


----------



## waynes world

Hououin Kyouma said:


> You picked up two worst buds from faaeal lmao  snow lotus 1.0 2.5mm balanced > snow lotus 1.0+ > 400ohm faaeal > 150ohm rosemary > narcissus 300ohm >>> snow lotus 1.0 > snow lotus 2.0 >.......>>>>>> iris > datura x





Hououin Kyouma said:


> SL 1.0+ is *far *more better sound wise: much better soundstage, much better mids, better clarity, better separation, bass is more punchy and very well response... treble extension is also better lmao



Watch it, or you'll wear your ass off!

One thing I'll agree with you on is that the 1.0+'s are really good. I also love the cable.

I'm going to do some ab'ing between the Datura X'a and 1.0+'s before I get into the Datura X debate.


----------



## Willber

Hououin Kyouma said:


> SL 1.0+ is *far *more better sound wise: much better soundstage, much better mids, better clarity, better separation, bass is more punchy and very well response... treble extension is also better lmao


My experience is different. I found that the 1.0+ is more v-shaped with elevated highs highs and lows than the 1.0, which I adjusted with EQ to my preferred signature as I always do. But in other respects (soundstage, separation, imaging) they sound similarly impressive to me.


----------



## Blueshound24

Would anyone be able to provide a description of sound characteristics of the different Willsound buds?


----------



## seanc6441

Blueshound24 said:


> Would anyone be able to provide a description of sound characteristics of the different Willsound buds?


Chinmie made a bunch of posts about each one awhile ago, use the search function to find his posts regarding willsound.


----------



## jogawag (Jan 25, 2019)

Blueshound24 said:


> Would anyone be able to provide a description of sound characteristics of the different Willsound buds?


Please look here.
WILLSOUND AUDIO COMPARISON (ENGLISH VERS.) MK1 MK2 MK3 MK300 PK16 PK32
https://aftersoundblog.wordpress.co...son-english-vers-mk1-mk2-mk3-mk300-pk16-pk32/


----------



## antdroid

chinmie said:


> that descriptions are indeed a little misleading



Is it possible they made a revision recently?

Anyway, I'm returning it either way. I may order the Snow Lotus since people seem to like it.

I ordered the *PMV B01 AOEDE* from Penon along with Kanas Pro this week and should have it Monday. I've read good things about this one too.


----------



## Blueshound24

seanc6441 said:


> Chinmie made a bunch of posts about each one awhile ago, use the search function to find his posts regarding willsound.



Thanks! i found some good comments.


----------



## Blueshound24

jogawag said:


> Please look here.
> https://aftersoundblog.wordpress.co...son-english-vers-mk1-mk2-mk3-mk300-pk16-pk32/



Great! Thanks.


----------



## Dabbaranks

Just got my Willsound Mk2 with VJC cable in 2.5mm balanced, it came in a white shell instead of the black one in photos, doesn't bother me and the paint coating feels great! Can't wait to listen to these more, but so far I'm very impressed with the detail and it's composure at higher volumes. Also at the price the build quality is fantastic, the 2.5mm plug used is great, the cable is very supple, light, and malleable. Will definitely buy more in the future.

I'm listening to the new James Blake album through Jriver out a Fiio q5, super happy to have these in my work rotation


----------



## chinmie

antdroid said:


> Is it possible they made a revision recently?
> 
> Anyway, I'm returning it either way. I may order the Snow Lotus since people seem to like it.
> 
> I ordered the *PMV B01 AOEDE* from Penon along with Kanas Pro this week and should have it Monday. I've read good things about this one too.



it's a possibility with these chifi gears. there's an anecdote between my group of friends, that with chifi the first batch is usually the best, because after a couple of runs they might run out of parts and start substituting and altering the sound/quality in the process. this is not always true of course, and also this is not restricted to chifi gears only, as i found certain guitar gears/effects pedal also have this tendency of silently changing the parts without informing it

haven't tried the PMV, but the Kanas Pro is great, especially if you like Harman response sounding earphones. it's like a more smoother/polite ER4XR. go with the regular if you like more bass attack and treble bite. but seeing you already bought the Pro, i don't think owning the regular too would be necessarily efficient


----------



## Hououin Kyouma (Jan 26, 2019)

Willber said:


> My experience is different. I found that the 1.0+ is more v-shaped with elevated highs highs and lows than the 1.0, which I adjusted with EQ to my preferred signature as I always do. But in other respects (soundstage, separation, imaging) they sound similarly impressive to me.


I don't have the new SL1.0+ but that's my experience on the old  It made me buy 5 of them lmao 
EDIT: *NEVER* use any foams on SL 1.0+!


----------



## Hououin Kyouma

waynes world said:


> Watch it, or you'll wear your ass off!
> 
> One thing I'll agree with you on is that the 1.0+'s are really good. I also love the cable.
> 
> I'm going to do some ab'ing between the Datura X'a and 1.0+'s before I get into the Datura X debate.


Its treble cut my ears so badly so I threw Datura X to the trash immediately


----------



## seanc6441

Dabbaranks said:


> Just got my Willsound Mk2 with VJC cable in 2.5mm balanced, it came in a white shell instead of the black one in photos, doesn't bother me and the paint coating feels great! Can't wait to listen to these more, but so far I'm very impressed with the detail and it's composure at higher volumes. Also at the price the build quality is fantastic, the 2.5mm plug used is great, the cable is very supple, light, and malleable. Will definitely buy more in the future.
> 
> I'm listening to the new James Blake album through Jriver out a Fiio q5, super happy to have these in my work rotation


I've recently rediscovered his work when I downloaded all his albums in lossless. Really love his music style, the new album I have yet to listen to but all his stuff sounds excellent to me.

Especially with some great dynamic bassy earbuds like the mk2!


----------



## silverfishla

Hououin Kyouma said:


> Its treble cut my ears so badly so I threw Datura X to the trash immediately


That’s funny, I think the Datura X is their best bud...but I don’t have the 1.0, just the 2.0 Snow Lotus and Narciccus.


----------



## waynes world

Hououin Kyouma said:


> I don't have the new SL1.0+ but that's my experience on the old  It made me buy 5 of them lmao
> EDIT: *NEVER* use any foams on SL 1.0+!



Tried them with no foams. Doesn't work for me (no seal, no bass). Donuts seems to be great.



Hououin Kyouma said:


> Its treble cut my ears so badly so I threw Datura X to the trash immediately



I'm a bit more tolerant than you are lol, but the highs can at times be problematic for me as well. 



silverfishla said:


> That’s funny, I think the Datura X is their best bud...but I don’t have the 1.0, just the 2.0 Snow Lotus and Narciccus.



Snag the 1.0+ while you can and let us know what you think!


----------



## Hououin Kyouma

waynes world said:


> Tried them with no foams. Doesn't work for me (no seal, no bass). Donuts seems to be great.


Donut is acceptable but the full foams make SL 1.0+ sound darker and thinner for me, mids are also recessed


----------



## Willber

waynes world said:


> Snag the 1.0+ while you can and let us know what you think!


The SL 1.0+ isn't available at the moment. Faaeal told me they might produce another batch next month.


----------



## toear

waynes world said:


> Tried them with no foams. Doesn't work for me (no seal, no bass). Donuts seems to be great.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hmmmm.. weird I'm wondering if we even have the same bud or if they drastically changed the design...

My datura x is great! Definitely on the warm side but great bass and excellent instrument separation... Highs I would say are laid back and smooth...


----------



## Hououin Kyouma

toear said:


> Hmmmm.. weird I'm wondering if we even have the same bud or if they drastically changed the design...
> 
> My datura x is great! Definitely on the warm side but great bass and excellent instrument separation... Highs I would say are laid back and smooth...


Wth? Are there many different versions of Datura X? My X's treble is wayyyyyy too harsh that I can't stand


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Yea.  Makes me wonder.  My datura X was hot trash.  Harsh highs and grainy mids.  Female vocals were the worst I have ever heard.  Somehow I think I lasted an hour with it, browsing through different files before I banished it to the drawer of abandonment.

Seems like this is a polarizing bud.


----------



## mbwilson111

Hououin Kyouma said:


> I don't have the new SL1.0+ but that's my experience on the old  It made me buy 5 of them lmao
> EDIT: *NEVER* use any foams on SL 1.0+!



Mine sounds great with full foams to me.  Everyone is different.  I can't use donuts at all.  I can get them on and if someone puts them on for me, they shift in weird ways as I am getting the bud into position.  They do not stay in the right place at all.



Hououin Kyouma said:


> Its treble cut my ears so badly so I threw Datura X to the trash immediately



I have no problems with the treble.  I think the Datura X sounds great.  I ordered mine after listening to the one my husband had.  Liked it enough to have my own.

If you really put it in the trash you should have at least seen in someone else wanted it.  If it was defective you could have probably at least arranged a partial refund.  If it is not literally in the trash and you have it somewhere, consider putting in new drivers.


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> Everyone is different.  I can't use donuts at all.  I can get them on and if someone puts them on for me, they shift in weird ways as I am getting the bud into position.  They do not stay in the right place at all.



I thought I was the only one having issues with shifting donut foams. They only stay in place for about two to three wears before shifting off too much for my liking. Though I'd say they sound really good in some instances. But maybe because I'm more lenient, full foams are acceptable to me even if it alters the sound a little. I can never do without foams, even with the MX500 shells. My ears are really big that way.


----------



## snip3r77 (Jan 26, 2019)

Been using the new transparent graphenes for like 2 weeks.
Changed to **** PT15. WOW. PT15 better mids and better separation and sounds more "hifi"
I think it's due to it's semi-open nature.


----------



## Hououin Kyouma

mbwilson111 said:


> Mine sounds great with full foams to me.  Everyone is different.  I can't use donuts at all.  I can get them on and if someone puts them on for me, they shift in weird ways as I am getting the bud into position.  They do not stay in the right place at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You should try HieGi donuts, better fit. Full foams don't work for my small ears and they reduce sound quality for me  My Datura X was actually in some trash bins lmao: my first faaeal - my worst faaeal ever  Fortunately I bought SL 1.0+ after that then totally fell in love. Next was Rosemary, SL 2.0, SL 2.5mm Balanced (the best! :maybe)... They are all so good! Poor my Datura X!!!


----------



## mbwilson111

Hououin Kyouma said:


> You should try HieGi donuts, better fit. Full foams don't work for my small ears and they reduce sound quality for me  My Datura X was actually in some trash bins lmao: my first faaeal - my worst faaeal ever  Fortunately I bought SL 1.0+ after that then totally fell in love. Next was Rosemary, SL 2.0, SL 2.5mm Balanced (the best! :maybe)... They are all so good! Poor my Datura X!!!



No, no donuts will work for me.. have tried HieGi.  They shift on the bud itself because with my ears I have to wiggle it around a lot to get it into the best position for me.  By then the donut has shifted.   I am happy with  full foams.



palestofwhite said:


> I thought I was the only one having issues with shifting donut foams. They only stay in place for about two to three wears before shifting off too much for my liking. Though I'd say they sound really good in some instances. But maybe because I'm more lenient, full foams are acceptable to me even if it alters the sound a little. I can never do without foams, even with the MX500 shells. My ears are really big that way.



...and I thought I was the only one with shifting donuts     I am probably more lenient as well.  I just get into my music and enjoy.  I have no interest in listening for faults and I enjoy various sound signatures.


----------



## pr0b3r

snip3r77 said:


> Been using the new transparent graphenes for like 2 weeks.
> Changed to **** PT15. WOW. PT15 better mids and better separation and sounds more "hifi"
> I think it's due to it's semi-open nature.



Which one?  MX760?  Pic?


----------



## 424358

Strong punchy bass, detachable mmcx, metal housing for $0-200. What are my. Options?


----------



## HungryPanda

Toneking TO200


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Has anybody opened up Datura X, know what driver is in it, and what size the driver is? Wondering how a transplant would fare seeing as how the Earbud build is top notch and the cable is decent.


----------



## waynes world

misterchao said:


> Strong punchy bass, detachable mmcx, metal housing for $0-200. What are my. Options?



Svara L 32ohm!


----------



## waynes world

pr0b3r said:


> Which one?  MX760?  Pic?



I would be very surprised if he doesn't mean the $16 ones.


----------



## HungryPanda

Just had a listen to both Svara-L and Toneking TO200, Svara-L is warmer with thicker bass, TO200 is brighter with tighter bass. most surprising thing is they both need the same power yet the Svara-L is 32 ohm and the TO200 is 200 ohm


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> Just had a listen to both Svara-L and Toneking TO200, Svara-L is warmer with thicker bass, TO200 is brighter with tighter bass. most surprising thing is they both need the same power yet the Svara-L is 32 ohm and the TO200 is 200 ohm



Interesting! Which of your Tonekings could you not live without?


----------



## Blueshound24

Willy and I have been PM'ing regarding ordering some Willsounds, and I have decided on the MK2. 

I think I would like to order another one from him but not sure which one. From what I've read the MK3 is a little Less V shaped which might be a good contrast to the MK2. I mentioned I prefered treble NOT rolled off much, so he suggested the MK2 or MK3 or MK150, but I cannot find for impressions about the MK150. 
I am not a basshead so the MK1 doesn't sound like it would be my preference.

Also, one of the PK's (pk16 or pk32) sound appealling due to the small shape for comfort, but they might be a compromise to the sound? Willy said the pk32 was warmer than the pk16, with the pk16 having a brighter signature which might be more up my alley?

Any recommendations for one to order along with the MK2?  TIA!


----------



## HungryPanda (Jan 26, 2019)

waynes world said:


> Interesting! Which of your Tonekings could you not live without?


 I need them all if the truth be told, with variety and all that


----------



## HungryPanda

But to put things in perspective I'm enjoying my DIY PK2's tonight.


----------



## jogawag

HungryPanda said:


> But to put things in perspective I'm enjoying my DIY PK2's tonight.


Does your DIY PK2 have Docomo driver? And so does it have enough bass?


----------



## snip3r77

pr0b3r said:


> Which one?  MX760?  Pic?



yes this , the newer cheaper one.


----------



## HungryPanda

I used these https://www.aliexpress.com/item/yuin-PK2-PRO-14-8MM-speaker-unit/32264416739.html  and it has very good bass


----------



## snip3r77

Blueshound24 said:


> Willy and I have been PM'ing regarding ordering some Willsounds, and I have decided on the MK2.
> 
> I think I would like to order another one from him but not sure which one. From what I've read the MK3 is a little Less V shaped which might be a good contrast to the MK2. I mentioned I prefered treble NOT rolled off much, so he suggested the MK2 or MK3 or MK150, but I cannot find for impressions about the MK150.
> I am not a basshead so the MK1 doesn't sound like it would be my preference.
> ...



just to confuse or enable you. Wilsound actually told me that he uses MK1 as a daily driver


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> None of them if the truth be told, with variety and all that



Ever heard of the term "enabler"?


----------



## waynes world

If any of you want to make all of your earbuds sound fantastic off of your computer (or at least, as fantastic as they are gonna sound), get the Massdrop Grace SDAC ($100) and the Monoprice Monolith Liquid Spark (by Cavalli) ($100). 100% recommended!

I've been a bit late to the "decent desktop dac and amp" party (I'm cheap lol), but both the SDAC and the Spark are amazing audio gizmos. And when the price is is taken into consideration, my mind is blown. On one hand I am glad that there is such great sounding gear these days for such a good price. On the other hand, I wish that I had made this kind of jump earlier (although it would have cost a lot more, even a few years ago).

I'm sure that there are other great sounding dac + amp combos out there for decent prices, but this combo is working for me!


----------



## DBaldock9

@seanc6441  - Which type of Hole Punch are you using for modifying earbud foams?
I just bought a hole punch from Office Depot, and it only cuts a partial hole.


----------



## 40760

DBaldock9 said:


> @seanc6441  - Which type of Hole Punch are you using for modifying earbud foams?
> I just bought a hole punch from Office Depot, and it only cuts a partial hole.



I bought a hole punch for paper from AE and it doesn't work well too...


----------



## golov17

HungryPanda said:


> most surprising thing is they both need the same power yet the Svara-L is 32 ohm and the TO200 is 200 ohm


Auto Gain maybe...


----------



## golov17

waynes world said:


> I'm sure that there are other great sounding dac + amp combos out there for decent prices, but this combo is working for me!



https://www.jdslabs.com/mobile/products/190/atom-amp/


----------



## silverfishla

DBaldock9 said:


> @seanc6441  - Which type of Hole Punch are you using for modifying earbud foams?
> I just bought a hole punch from Office Depot, and it only cuts a partial hole.


David, use a soldering iron with a small tip.  It’s easier to control the the size of the holes and faster.  You can do like 10 of them in a minute.


----------



## doggiemom

silverfishla said:


> David, use a soldering iron with a small tip.  It’s easier to control the the size of the holes and faster.  You can do like 10 of them in a minute.


He for sure has one lying around....... probably with multiple tips for fine tuning.


----------



## DBaldock9

palestofwhite said:


> I bought a hole punch for paper from AE and it doesn't work well too...



I'm thinking about ordering an 8mm punch for leather.  It's actually cheaper than the Office Depot paper hole punch I bought today.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Pun...lt-hole-puncher-New-Type-8Mm/32796288513.html
.


----------



## seanc6441

DBaldock9 said:


> @seanc6441  - Which type of Hole Punch are you using for modifying earbud foams?
> I just bought a hole punch from Office Depot, and it only cuts a partial hole.


I was using a precise scissors to cut them. A hold punch is too big I find.

Someone recommend using a leather punch and another recommended a metal pen.

I haven't been using or making these kinds of foam lately though so it's been awhile since I made them.


----------



## seanc6441

DBaldock9 said:


> I'm thinking about ordering an 8mm punch for leather.  It's actually cheaper than the Office Depot paper hole punch I bought today.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Pun...lt-hole-puncher-New-Type-8Mm/32796288513.html
> .


Wow just saw some on aliexpress that can punch 1mm-5mm (a 5 set). Might buy it soon. Would make very clean multi hole foams.


----------



## waynes world

golov17 said:


> https://www.jdslabs.com/mobile/products/190/atom-amp/



Yes, that is another great one as well


----------



## assassin10000

HungryPanda said:


> Just had a listen to both Svara-L and Toneking TO200, Svara-L is warmer with thicker bass, TO200 is brighter with tighter bass. most surprising thing is they both need the same power yet the Svara-L is 32 ohm and the TO200 is 200 ohm



Svara have that much less sensitivity?

I was considering ordering them but I'll probably only be using them with my phone or a bluetooth cable/bt20.


----------



## GREQ

I noticed the guy who sold the Kubes now has some ek2's up for sale.
I can't recommend them because of my experience but since others have enjoyed them I thought someone might be interested in trying them out.


----------



## nick n (Jan 27, 2019)

They are a bit larger housing than  the KUBEV1 for sure, but with a decent shirt clip works good here.
Shirt clip seems a must.
Good laid back massive analog type sound.
Ask waynesworld 

oooh there's a few BLACK V1's now again.


----------



## RobinFood

I took out the good old Monk plus tonight. They have no sub bass and the highs are rolled off, but there is something really special about them. All the details they have in that range is presented fully and congruently, no instrument or sound pushing another under it, and it has the most natural sounding soundstage and imaging. I love going back to it from time to time to reset things a little. They are great for washing your pallet from V-shaped buds.


----------



## purplesun

@DBaldock9
Stationery single-hole puncher. Was doing some today, so took a photo.


----------



## 40760

purplesun said:


> @DBaldock9
> Stationery single-hole puncher. Was doing some today, so took a photo.



That's the exact same hole puncher I have and had problems inserting the foams. I see you did a little modification to lift that metal place holder...


----------



## purplesun (Jan 27, 2019)

palestofwhite said:


> That's the exact same hole puncher I have and had problems inserting the foams. I see you did a little modification to lift that metal place holder...


Yup. Easy peasy! 1 minute to snip 4 donuts, but 1 freaking hour to fit them on the earbuds! Still struggling with the last piece (2 donuts per bud).

EDIT: All done, whew!


----------



## DBaldock9

purplesun said:


> @DBaldock9
> Stationery single-hole puncher. Was doing some today, so took a photo.



I bought an Office Depot hole punch yesterday ( https://www.officedepot.com/a/products/719521/Office-Depot-Brand-Single-Hole-Punch/ ) - 
.




.
- and it only cuts about 80% of a circle.  I was hoping for a clean 100% circle punch.


----------



## Willber

DBaldock9 said:


> I bought an Office Depot hole punch yesterday ( https://www.officedepot.com/a/products/719521/Office-Depot-Brand-Single-Hole-Punch/ ) -
> .
> 
> 
> ...


Try punching the foam when it's against some card or thick paper under it.


----------



## Blueshound24

Blueshound24 said:


> Willy and I have been PM'ing regarding ordering some Willsounds, and I have decided on the MK2.
> 
> I think I would like to order another one from him but not sure which one. From what I've read the MK3 is a little Less V shaped which might be a good contrast to the MK2. I mentioned I prefered treble NOT rolled off much, so he suggested the MK2 or MK3 or MK150, but I cannot find for impressions about the MK150.
> I am not a basshead so the MK1 doesn't sound like it would be my preference.
> ...




I had one comment about Will using the MK1 as a daily driver from @snip3r77. Anybody else have any input?


----------



## seanc6441

Blueshound24 said:


> I had one comment about Will using the MK1 as a daily driver from @snip3r77. Anybody else have any input?


Pk32 was underwhelming, mk2 was very good. I'd stick to his mx500 buds on that basis. Maybe get the 150 as someone suggested it was slightly mid forward, whuch contrasts the mk2 slightly mid recessed sound.


----------



## purplesun

DBaldock9 said:


> I bought an Office Depot hole punch yesterday ( https://www.officedepot.com/a/products/719521/Office-Depot-Brand-Single-Hole-Punch/ ) -
> .
> - and it only cuts about 80% of a circle.  I was hoping for a clean 100% circle punch.


The puncher do not have deep enough travel to completely push out the foam piece. I have to repeat a few punches to get over 90% clean cut. If only a single punch, at least 20%will remain attached.


----------



## Matarro

Willber said:


> Try punching the foam when it's against some card or thick paper under it.



That's what I do and as I hold the the punch down I rotate the cardboard a bit to make sure I cut through all of the foam.


----------



## Blueshound24

seanc6441 said:


> Pk32 was underwhelming, mk2 was very good. I'd stick to his mx500 buds on that basis. Maybe get the 150 as someone suggested it was slightly mid forward, whuch contrasts the mk2 slightly mid recessed sound.



Thanks for your recs!


----------



## Matarro

Lol... I just used a cigar puncher to make holes in foams. I wanted to make a big hole since they sound nice without foams and I just wanted something to make them stay in place (and some slight padding as a bonus). Worked great actually!


----------



## mbwilson111

I just found out that my DP100 will be delivered tomorrow.

Meanwhile, tonight I am enjoying my  husband's latest creation.  He just finished making it for me yesterday.  The HungryPanda Songbird.  Very comfortable shell for me and it sounds great with my  music.


----------



## Matarro

@mbwilson111 is that cable from a Seahf? Looks exactly like the cable on the AWK-F150C I'm using right now.


----------



## mbwilson111

Matarro said:


> @mbwilson111 is that cable from a Seahf? Looks exactly like the cable on the AWK-F150C I'm using right now.



No it is from a pack of 10 DIY cables that he ordered a few months ago.  But of course they could be what Seahf used... all the parts have to come from somewhere...

It is a nice cable.


----------



## Matarro

Ah, gotcha! Yes, I think it's a nice cable too if it's the same. I just had to ask because it was dangling right in front of me and I saw it looked the same.


----------



## purplesun

Matarro said:


> Lol... I just used a cigar puncher to make holes in foams. I wanted to make a big hole since they sound nice without foams and I just wanted something to make them stay in place (and some slight padding as a bonus). Worked great actually!


That looks even better! Why would anyone want to punch a hole in a cigar? I don't smoke, music is my only vice! Not counting alcohol & internet porn


----------



## mochill

So what is the sound different between the kube ek2 and ek1  ,  I ordered a black pair of the ek1


----------



## Matarro (Jan 27, 2019)

purplesun said:


> That looks even better! Why would anyone want to punch a hole in a cigar? I don't smoke, music is my only vice! Not counting alcohol & internet porn



Because the outer shell of a cigar is made from rolled leaves the end is sealed so you have to cut it before you can draw air through it. Usually people use a scissor or guillotine cutter but I prefer a puncher because it's neater on my key chain. I'm a very infrequent smoker (like one per month) and I use no other forms of nicotine so I'm not even sure you can call it a vice at that point. 

Anyway, here's my Vunbuds with cigar punched holes and ES100:



Edit: How do you upload pics from imgur? I tried several times before giving up and uploading it straight from my phone.


----------



## waynes world (Jan 27, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> Svara have that much less sensitivity?
> 
> I was considering ordering them but I'll probably only be using them with my phone or a bluetooth cable/bt20.



Fwiw, my Samsung S7 -> Radsone ES100 drives them just fine.



GREQ said:


> I noticed the guy who sold the Kubes now has some ek2's up for sale.
> I can't recommend them because of my experience but since others have enjoyed them I thought someone might be interested in trying them out.





nick n said:


> They are a bit larger housing than  the KUBEV1 for sure, but with a decent shirt clip works good here.
> Shirt clip seems a must.



Not just any clip though! The Kube2 clip requires the monster clip lol:


Spoiler











> Good laid back massive analog type sound.
> Ask waynesworld



Yes, I do quite enjoy that massive analog type sound - good description! I'm also really digging them with of amping


----------



## doggiemom

mochill said:


> So what is the sound different between the kube ek2 and ek1  ,  I ordered a black pair of the ek1


Looks like all the colors are back in stock....... I just bought some.  (Sigh).


----------



## Willber (Jan 27, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I just found out that my DP100 will be delivered tomorrow.


I hope you ordered the silver ones. Well-made, attractive and very comfortable. Good sound but not quite spacious enough to put them up with the SL 1.0/1.0+ IMO. Nor with my new arrivals, the Headroom MS16, which have made an impressive start. More on them in due course...


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> I hope you ordered the silver ones. Well-made, attractive and very comfortable. Good sound but not quite spacious enough to put them up with the SL 1.0/1.0+ IMO. Nor with my new arrivals, the MS16, which have made an impressive start. More on them in due course...



Yes, I liked the look of it plus the silver one has a straight plug which I prefer.


----------



## waynes world (Jan 27, 2019)

mochill said:


> So what is the sound different between the kube ek2 and ek1  ,  I ordered a black pair of the ek1



Some impressions here:



waynes world said:


> It's been a while since I listened to my Vidos, but I just did some abc'ing of the above as well.
> 
> For me, the Vidos are the darkest and with the most subdued treble. Maybe there are differences amongst the Vidos and the Kube1's? Or maybe we are using different foams? Or maybe I just don't know that I'm talking about lol?
> 
> ...





GREQ said:


> Included Vido measurements.
> 
> _*TLDR:*
> Sabia is best detail/timbre (fun signature)
> ...





waynes world said:


> Huh! Wonders never cease
> 
> Thanks for the measurements. One of these days I'll have to learn how to interpret the graph's mids and highs.
> 
> ...


----------



## mochill

So the kube2 is a mini nighthawk,  (☞ ͡ ͡° ͜ ʖ ͡ ͡°)☞


----------



## Dabbaranks

nick n said:


> oooh there's a few BLACK V1's now again.



Sorry if I missed this info, where can I find kube v1s at the moment? Really wanna try them.


----------



## nick n

Dabbaranks said:


> Sorry if I missed this info, where can I find kube v1s at the moment? Really wanna try them.



= https://www.ebay.com/itm/223322310399?ul_noapp=true
same place for the  V2


----------



## mbwilson111

mochill said:


> So the kube2 is a mini nighthawk,  (☞ ͡ ͡° ͜ ʖ ͡ ͡°)☞



I plan to find out


----------



## waynes world

mochill said:


> So the kube2 is a mini nighthawk,  (☞ ͡ ͡° ͜ ʖ ͡ ͡°)☞



I hope I don't have to eat my Hawks after that statement!


----------



## nick n (Jan 29, 2019)

^ probably not.
Had them on for a walk just now again.
With the same clips as waynesworld linked there was no dislodging at all.
Clipped right above the y-split spot.
Normally due to the ribbon cable they would at times dislodge, so problem fixed.
Thanks for making me buy some btw.
I don't have massive ears , so with first wedging the Kube2 under the upper ear ridge then on the lobes it was directionally perfect for firing the sound in.

Large bass. ( not "earbud large", but regular large if that makes sense.)
I have not experimented with thinner foams yet. nor donuts. Donuts might be neat to try out.
I forget what wayneworld has tried as far as various foams, and how it affects the sound.
Anyhow time will tell when others get in on  the testing.

BTW these clips are cheapo.  On the larger side but work very well.
*waynesworld's speshull klipz :*
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-PCS-Durable-Earphone-Cable-Lapel-Clip-Clamp-Mount-Holder-MP3-iPhone-Radio/272949541787?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
*UPDATE ON THIS PARTICULAR CLIP:*
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2639#post-14748050
I do still use them .


----------



## Dabbaranks

nick n said:


> = https://www.ebay.com/itm/223322310399?ul_noapp=true
> same place for the  V2



Thank you sir! Unfortunately the shipping to canada is the same as the earbud 

I’ll have to wait the itch out for now.


----------



## waynes world (Jan 27, 2019)

Dabbaranks said:


> Thank you sir! Unfortunately the shipping to canada is the same as the earbud
> 
> I’ll have to wait the itch out for now.



Yeah, that's too bad about the shipping charges. Makes a lot of sense though if you buy a kube1, kube2 and a sabia v6 all at the same time


----------



## nick n (Jan 27, 2019)

Sabia V6 are all sold out now from what I gather.
Too bad they really are something special, most people I know got duplicates.


----------



## drey101 (Jan 28, 2019)

Just got these today.  Excited to try em!



FAAEAL Datura X + Panda PK2

edit:
I just tried em out so hear are some OOTB impressions:

Panda PK2
Imaging for front and back is kinda weak
Voices are a little bit shouty, might be a very minor mid bass bleed or mids are a little bit too forward?
Neutral to very bright?
The tonal quality seems to have a slight reverb, it makes the music sound a little different.

It looks cute, fit is pretty good. Definitely more bassy than the Datura, but I wouldn't consider either of these as bass champs. Hmmn, they seem to be 'brighter' than the Datura. I think these are more balanced than the Datura, but there's something bothering me with tonality of the vocals.

FAAEAL Datura X
Better imaging for front and back
Very little subbass, definitely not for bassheads.
Vocals sound great!
Less sparkly than the Panda PK2


I like the sound of the Datura X, it's really clear and crisp for me. The vocals sound great. I think this bud is very ear dependant, as I was moving it around my ear, and suddenly, the subbass was there, quite present and noticeable. The metal build seems durable, but I'm kinda worried about the soldering/cable. When there's no music playing, and I move the cable or my head, I kinda hear something moving/crackling inside the bud. Is that normal and do I need to be worried about it?

I haven't tried either of the two covered up in foam or donuts yet, so I dunno how those affect them.

In any case, I'm quite happy with getting them, and they're definitely more convenient in the office over my iems. I'm surprised with how good earbuds can be, as the first one I tried, a diy MX500 from a local seller, wasn't that great.


----------



## waynes world

nick n said:


> Sabia V6 are all sold out now from what I gather.
> Too bad they really are something special, most people I know got duplicates.



Oh oh! I gave my son my spare V6 as a gift. I hope he lets me buy them back!


----------



## assassin10000 (Jan 28, 2019)

waynes world said:


> Fwiw, my Samsung S7 -> Radsone ES100 drives them just fine.



I wonder how the ES100 compares power wise to my Note 4 and/or my BT20 that'd I would want to use them with.


----------



## CheeseInTheSky (Jan 28, 2019)

So i got the Sabia V6 and the Kube's.

I like them both a lot, however the Sabia wont stay in my ears during walking so it probably isnt gonna be a option as daily driver.
The Kube's sound a lot better than i thought initially, the bass is excellent and with some songs i have trouble keeping the Sabia and Kube's apart.
Overall i like the Sabia's sound the most, but the cables make them fall out of my ears easily it seems.
The Kube's cable is extremely light and thin, it stays in my ears better due to this but you can see it's a lower quality cable and the connector is a bit busted up when you rotate the connector you can hear interference.
I havent the tested the Kube's fully tho, so it might change.

Still waiting for my Japan Docomo & JVC's.

Currently Qian69 and Sabia V6 are the best i have i think.


----------



## subwoof3r (Jan 28, 2019)

Just received today my 2 pairs of Snow Lotus *1.0+* Commemorative Edition, finally! 
First impression OOTB is pretty impressive, installed VE extreme thin foams, I found the sound overall slightly colder that I'm used to listen with my EMX500 mods, but sound sig is very pleasant and interesting. I didn't found any lacking, bass has much more presence than 1.0, soundstage is much larger/deeper, there is much details, overall it has a sllight bright sound (could be fixed depending on toams used) but definitely no harshness nor sibilance. Highs and mds are much fine tuned. I agree with what has been said previously, 1.0+ is a much better 1.0 (especially in bass and soundstage).
Those 1.0+ so far, are one of my favorites!
Didn't have much time to spend with them before going back to work, so I will let you know more after few hours of burning and listening 
Also, the cable is already very good and very pleasing to manipulate (excepted this big Y-plitter). Not sure I will recable them. Maybe with a little hole on bass port, I'm sure these gonna be a beast!
I'm very happy to have ordered two of them, hehe


----------



## Willber

@subwoof3r 
Thicker foams will tame the treble and strengthen the bass. I use the stock foams that came with them, they are good quality.


----------



## Chris674

CheeseInTheSky said:


> So i got the Sabia V6 and the Kube's.
> 
> I like them both a lot, however the Sabia wont stay in my ears during walking so it probably isnt gonna be a option as daily driver.
> The Kube's sound a lot better than i thought initially, the bass is excellent and with some songs i have trouble keeping the Sabia and Kube's apart.
> ...


I got the Kubes and the SL 1.0+ Commemoratives in last week. I've been spending a lot of time with the Kubes. I've never heard bass like that from an ear bud and the soundstage is exactly as advertised in these forums. I'd be interested to hear your comparison to the Sabia after you've listened a bit more. eBay seller says they're very limited and he has 3-4 pairs to list. Wondering if I should stalk his listings or just be happy. Oh, and how the heck yo get Docomos and JVC's? Keep seeing them but have no idea where they're sold.


----------



## Chris674

subwoof3r said:


> Just received today my 2 pairs of Snow Lotus *1.0+* Commemorative Edition, finally!
> First impression OOTB is pretty impressive, installed VE extreme thin foams, I found the sound overall slightly colder that I'm used to listen with my EMX500 mods, but sound sig is very pleasant and interesting. I didn't found any lacking, bass has much more presence than 1.0, soundstage is much larger/deeper, there is much details, overall it has a sllight bright sound (could be fixed depending on toams used) but definitely no harshness nor sibilance. Highs and mds are much fine tuned. I agree with what has been said previously, 1.0+ is a much better 1.0 (especially in bass and soundstage).
> Those 1.0+ so far, are one of my favorites!
> Didn't have much time to spend with them before going back to work, so I will let you know more after few hours of burning and listening
> ...


I dislike that splitter also but the cable is really nice otherwise. I've ordered their replacement cables for my miniXLR AKG's and HD650. They're exactly the same as the Commemoratives. Short and great for desk listening.


----------



## Hououin Kyouma

@subwoof3r You should try SL 2.5mm Balanced Edition next! The BEST Faaeal!


----------



## j4100

Hououin Kyouma said:


> @subwoof3r You should try SL 2.5mm Balanced Edition next! The BEST Faaeal!



That is a great bud. I'm using it a lot since I got it late last year.


----------



## subwoof3r (Jan 28, 2019)

Hououin Kyouma said:


> @subwoof3r You should try SL 2.5mm Balanced Edition next! The BEST Faaeal!





j4100 said:


> That is a great bud. I'm using it a lot since I got it late last year.


Unfortunately I still don't have any 2.5mm Balanced equipment yet  will it sound the exact same if I use a balanced>3.5mm adapter ?
Also, a quick comparative with SL 1.0+ would be appreciated (if possible)


----------



## Hououin Kyouma (Jan 28, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> Unfortunately I still don't have any 2.5mm Balanced equipment yet  will it sound the exact same if I use a balanced>3.5mm adapter ?
> Also, a quick comparative with SL 1.0+ would be appreciated (if possible)


The SL 2.5mm Balanced is the SL 1.0+ with better mids and highs, more clearity. Same sound signature but better quality  SL 1.0: 5.5/10, SL 1.0+: 9/10 and SL 2.5mm: 10/10


----------



## seanc6441

Hououin Kyouma said:


> The SL 2.5mm Balanced is the SL 1.0+ with better mids and highs, more clearity. Same sound signature but better quality  SL 1.0: 5.5/10, SL 1.0+: 9/10 and SL 2.5mm: 10/10


Is it the same driver as 1.0+  just with a balanced cable? If you know of course?


----------



## Hououin Kyouma

seanc6441 said:


> Is it the same driver as 1.0+  just with a balanced cable? If you know of course?


Yes!  Same driver but better cable and 2.5mm balanced make it sound better


----------



## mbwilson111

My DP100 has arrived.  Sounds great out of the box (no box just bubble wrap).  Using it today with a small pocketable dap.


----------



## waynes world

CheeseInTheSky said:


> So i got the Sabia V6 and the Kube's.
> 
> I like them both a lot, however the Sabia wont stay in my ears during walking so it probably isnt gonna be a option as daily driver.
> The Kube's sound a lot better than i thought initially, the bass is excellent and with some songs i have trouble keeping the Sabia and Kube's apart.
> ...



Glad you are liking both the Kube and the Sabia! Fwiw I find the Sabia's to stay in fine if I use a shirt clip.



Chris674 said:


> I got the Kubes and the SL 1.0+ Commemoratives in last week. I've been spending a lot of time with the Kubes. I've never heard bass like that from an ear bud and the soundstage is exactly as advertised in these forums. I'd be interested to hear your comparison to the Sabia after you've listened a bit more. eBay seller says they're very limited and he has 3-4 pairs to list. Wondering if I should stalk his listings or just be happy. Oh, and how the heck yo get Docomos and JVC's? Keep seeing them but have no idea where they're sold.



Glad you are liking both the SL1.0+ and the Kube!

The Sabia V6, SL1.0+ and Kube1 are my current holy trinity of awesome sounding budget buds 



Hououin Kyouma said:


> @subwoof3r You should try SL 2.5mm Balanced Edition next! The BEST Faaeal!



Are you referring to this one?:
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...MP3-Player-Amplifier/2178200_32889629399.html


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Are you referring to this one?:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...MP3-Player-Amplifier/2178200_32889629399.html



Strange choice to use a right angled plug for balanced.  Makes it awkward to use adapters... like 2.5mm to XLR  or a 2.5mm balanced to 3.5mm SE.


----------



## pr0b3r

CheeseInTheSky said:


> Still waiting for my Japan Docomo & JVC's.



You're in for a big treat!  They have a lot of potential when recabled with some tuning adjustments.  Not that I know specifically how they do it, but a lot of DIY versions of those two buds have recently sprouted here in my country.  I still haven't heard a bad one to date.


----------



## Ira Delphic

mbwilson111 said:


> My DP100 has arrived.  Sounds great out of the box (no box just bubble wrap).  Using it today with a small pocketable dap.



Where did you purchase the DP 100 from? I see at least two different stores on Ali.  What would you compare them to - from your exensive list of earbuds? Thanks!


----------



## mbwilson111

Ira Delphic said:


> Where did you purchase the DP 100 from? I see at least two different stores on Ali.  What would you compare them to - from your exensive list of earbuds? Thanks!



This was the only one that had the silver color that I wanted (and a straight plug).  

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...iFi-In-Ear-Earphone-HD-Sound/32831005293.html

I have only listened to a couple of albums and was enjoying what I was hearing out of that little dap. I can't find any fault with it but I enjoy different sound signatures and am happy as long as I am enjoying my music.

I can't really compare at this point.  I have too much plus I have more recently been listening with the buds that my husband has made.


----------



## Ira Delphic

mbwilson111 said:


> This was the only one that had the silver color that I wanted (and a straight plug).
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...iFi-In-Ear-Earphone-HD-Sound/32831005293.html
> 
> ...



Understood. I find that I can either AB different earbuds OR listen and enjoy music, but not both. I'd rather listen to music. And right now my EB200 earbuds and OK Computer FLAC played on my LG V30 sounds pretty amazing!


----------



## mbwilson111

Ira Delphic said:


> Understood. I find that I can either AB different earbuds OR listen and enjoy music, but not both. I'd rather listen to music. And right now my EB200 earbuds and OK Computer FLAC played on my LG V30 sounds pretty amazing!



I will pick the music every time.  The only reason I have so much is because I get curious and my husband is an enabler... as are most of the people here...


----------



## golov17

Some blues with PMV


----------



## Willber

Ira Delphic said:


> What would you compare them to - from your exensive list of earbuds? Thanks!


I haven't listened to them for a while, but looking at my EQ profiles it seems to be most similar to the Yincrow X6.


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> Strange choice to use a right angled plug for balanced.  Makes it awkward to use adapters... like 2.5mm to XLR  or a 2.5mm balanced to 3.5mm SE.



Yeah, that's the ones I have. You're right, although it's fine plugged into my amp, it would be a bit odd with an adapter.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> I haven't listened to them for a while, but looking at my EQ profiles it seems to be most similar to the Yincrow X6.



If that is the case, I should mention that the DP100 is more comfortable to me with its smaller shell.  The Yincrow X6 uses a Monk type shell. I have not used mine in awhile...I should.


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> If that is the case, I should mention that the DP100 is more comfortable to me with its smaller shell.  The Yincrow X6 uses a Monk type shell. I have not used mine in awhile...I should.


Yes, that's true.


----------



## j4100

Tempted by the QLabs Athena. Also noticed the Willsound PK32 is back on sale. Also tempted.


----------



## mochill

Where to get JVC


----------



## DBaldock9

mbwilson111 said:


> If that is the case, I should mention that the DP100 is more comfortable to me with its smaller shell.  The Yincrow X6 uses a Monk type shell. I have not used mine in awhile...I should.



I noticed some shells (wooden) & drivers from Chitty's Store on AliExpress, that are listed as 14.2mm, which is smaller than the 14.8mm PK shells.
This might interest @HungryPanda


----------



## Carrow

My Elibuds Sabia V6 arrived today - I thought I knew what thin foams felt like but I tried to get the four red foams on and they all ripped if I so much as breathed on them, good god. Hiegi foams it is, I think.


----------



## DBaldock9

mochill said:


> Where to get JVC



If you're looking for Victor or Docomo - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2602#post-14719767


----------



## mochill

I am already on my way to ordering the JVC earbuds


----------



## calico88

can anyone recommend balance high Impedance for Zishan ak4497eq ?


----------



## antdroid

I just in the PMV B01 AOEDE from Penon. They shipped a Penon Audio Scarf with my package of new toys! It's actually a decent quality scarf too 

Anyway, only have listened to this PMV model for a little bit, but its treble extension and clarity is very good for $30. The mids sound nice and warm. The bass is very lean and fast and rolls off pretty early but sounds clean and won't be disturbing your mids at all.
Build quality is mostly great, though the first time I pulled the 3.5mm connector out, the cap on it came unglued and popped off. A little superglue should fix this pretty easily.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Its late but I take an hour to fastly share my ultimate love about TINGO TG-38S (or more like EMX985). Perhaps it already became know by more peps, but for me its the best sub 10$ all arounder earbud. A MUST have. No BS. As always...
sorry for bad pictures but I need to share this thing so its impulsive.
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/tingo-tg-38s.23556/reviews#review-21513

I just say BUY IT SHARE IT LOVE IT in fact....


----------



## nhlean96

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Its late but I take an hour to fastly share my ultimate love about TINGO TG-38S (or more like EMX985). Perhaps it already became know by more peps, but for me its the best sub 10$ all arounder earbud. A MUST have. No BS. As always...
> sorry for bad pictures but I need to share this thing so its impulsive.
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/tingo-tg-38s.23556/reviews#review-21513
> 
> I just say BUY IT SHARE IT LOVE IT in fact....


The only downside of these is they're shocking, electrically and emotionally


----------



## gazzington

Hi. Need some advice. Just had some birthday money. What would be great totl earbuds for a black/death/doom metal listener?  I can spend up to £350.
Thanks


----------



## subwoof3r

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Its late but I take an hour to fastly share my ultimate love about TINGO TG-38S (or more like EMX985). Perhaps it already became know by more peps, but for me its the best sub 10$ all arounder earbud. A MUST have. No BS. As always...
> sorry for bad pictures but I need to share this thing so its impulsive.
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/tingo-tg-38s.23556/reviews#review-21513
> 
> I just say BUY IT SHARE IT LOVE IT in fact....


Sadly, I don't have the same thinking 
I remember well those TINGO TG-38S, they were my first ever "audiophile" budget earbuds and I wasn't happy with them at all, I really didn't enjoyed the sound overall: bass anemic, thin soundstage, not much details, only the mids were just ok (far from perfect), definitely it was designed for vocals first and piano, but nothing else (or my pair had serious issues).
If I remember well, I wasn't alone to think the same on a french audiophile board (isn't it @DarkZenith ?  )
But the build quality was good for the price, this was my only pros to them.


----------



## CheeseInTheSky

Chris674 said:


> I got the Kubes and the SL 1.0+ Commemoratives in last week. I've been spending a lot of time with the Kubes. I've never heard bass like that from an ear bud and the soundstage is exactly as advertised in these forums. I'd be interested to hear your comparison to the Sabia after you've listened a bit more. eBay seller says they're very limited and he has 3-4 pairs to list. Wondering if I should stalk his listings or just be happy. Oh, and how the heck yo get Docomos and JVC's? Keep seeing them but have no idea where they're sold.



I got the Japan earbuds from a Malay forum mentioned here before (Lowyat)
It looks like the Kube V1's will be my daily drivers, the fit combined with the lightweight noodle cable makes it sit much more easily in my ears, and the sound is great.
I agree, the bass is something else on these, the Sabia's sound great too tho.
I still cant choose a clear winner, although the Sabia's seem to be louder without the sound becoming crackling or anything, it just sounds so detailed even at louder volumes.
I might end up trying to recable the Sabia for a more lightweight cable, as it seems the cable used for the Sabia is quite stiff and thats the reason it falls out so easily when going about.


----------



## nick n (Jan 29, 2019)

Have you tried shirt clips at all?
If I can get the KUBE2 to stay put with a clip, the KubeV1 should be easier than that.
 It's hard to figure out which I like best, so I gave up trying.
Sabia maybe perhaps a bit more refined,  the _quality_ of the bass is amazingly great, ( well on Kube V1 too ) but when I recall hitting female vocals on the Sabia it's excellent.
Plus the way notes are portrayed , the edges of the notes and body to them. Hard to describe. 
It's late  and I am overly tired.
Very glad to see some positive reactions overall.

What colour(s) did you get?


----------



## CheeseInTheSky

The Elibuds Sabia V6 Experimental are White, and the Kube V1 i got in white too.
The Kube V1 sit great in my ear, and due to the noodle  cable stay in, the connector is crap tho.
It's the Sabia thats pulling out of my ear during walking.


----------



## subwoof3r

Listening to SL 1.0+ at work since few hours (after 20 hours of proper burning) and they sound very good to me (I switched to ali thin foams on them which is the best compromise).
It is just lacking a bit of subbass and rumble in bass departement so I have to play a bit with EQ, but other freqs are close to perfection. Nice job done by faaeal 
I tried to dismantle them but seems like they are glued like hell, can't open them very easily... unlike 1.0  so I think I will let them like that (had too much bad experience killing both my drivers from EMX500S, RY4S, GM500, etc, while trying to open them glued...).


----------



## 40760 (Jan 30, 2019)

Removed.


----------



## ClintonL

Is there anything up to $250 usd that is a noticeable upgrade for the shozy bk.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Jan 29, 2019)

palestofwhite said:


> Anybody tried this earbuds to headphone mod yet?


Well At $25 I put in my email to try em. Who knows?

The reddit is pretty funny reading. People killing this thing, but haven't tried em yet. Funny stuff.


----------



## subwoof3r

BadReligionPunk said:


> Well At $25 I put in my email to try em. Who knows?
> 
> The reddit is pretty funny reading. People killing this thing, but haven't tried em yet. Funny stuff.


Budwoof3r


----------



## minnyB (Jan 29, 2019)

KevDzn said:


> 1. Japan VICTOR
> link: https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=4592549&hl=
> 
> 2. Docomo Variant
> ...


Thank you for your referral.  They are very popular earbuds for recabling.

Just for your info, I also have access to the NTT Docomo Earbuds in 3.5mm balanced plug.  According to my customer, this NTT Docomo used the driver unit of Shozy bk stardust.


----------



## minnyB (Jan 29, 2019)




----------



## clovermau5

BadReligionPunk said:


> Well At $25 I put in my email to try em. Who knows?
> 
> The reddit is pretty funny reading. People killing this thing, but haven't tried em yet. Funny stuff.



i tried to check, its $34.95 now. hmm is it worth ?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Probably not...


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I can stand to throw away $25, but $35 is too much.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac (Jan 29, 2019)

Ira Delphic said:


> Where did you purchase the DP 100 from? I see at least two different stores on Ali.  What would you compare them to - from your exensive list of earbuds? Thanks!


 Very detailed and analytical, layering is out of this world for the price and highs sparkle are to die for. But performance is inconsistant and some shrill in bass or vocal can happen at very high volume...still need more listen to them cause sometime im blown away and other time i feel they are defect. But near neutral and ultra detailed, small soundstage but excellent layering.


subwoof3r said:


> Sadly, I don't have the same thinking
> I remember well those TINGO TG-38S, they were my first ever "audiophile" budget earbuds and I wasn't happy with them at all, I really didn't enjoyed the sound overall: bass anemic, thin soundstage, not much details, only the mids were just ok (far from perfect), definitely it was designed for vocals first and piano, but nothing else (or my pair had serious issues).
> If I remember well, I wasn't alone to think the same on a french audiophile board (isn't it @DarkZenith ?  )
> But the build quality was good for the price, this was my only pros to them.



WHAT!!!!!!!!!

I'm utterly confuse....but as said...its not write tingo on it...so, this is why I guess I should include a aliexpress link (even if I hate to do that). I find these because on earbuds anonymous one person praise them, but with intense sincerity, so months after I take the plunge. The mids are to die for and soundstage is biggest in sub 20$ earbuds IMO They are warm but far from dull sounding and for some less crowded music I prefer them over EBX. We need at least some person that have them in hands to share proper impressions.
As well, 2 other dude from NBBA facebook group buy them and really love them and both talk about vast soundstage....

What was you audio source at the time (surely not a phone I guess)?????

I buy them here:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot...073.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4d3d33L1


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

antdroid said:


> I just in the PMV B01 AOEDE from Penon. They shipped a Penon Audio Scarf with my package of new toys! It's actually a decent quality scarf too
> 
> Anyway, only have listened to this PMV model for a little bit, but its treble extension and clarity is very good for $30. The mids sound nice and warm. The bass is very lean and fast and rolls off pretty early but sounds clean and won't be disturbing your mids at all.
> Build quality is mostly great, though the first time I pulled the 3.5mm connector out, the cap on it came unglued and popped off. A little superglue should fix this pretty easily.



I really love my PMV A01 MK2 earphones...still wait for another 50-150$ iem from this company....about scarf, did they give it when you buy stuffs or just for reviewer so they can make Penon publicity in winter?

No but seriously....im curious to know how they compare to the Nicehck EB2 (wich I didnt love alot...).


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 29, 2019)

Nymphonomaniac said:


> .but as said...its not write tingo on it...so, this is why I guess I should include a aliexpress link (even if I hate to do that).



Here is a tip that will help with aliexpress links so that you will not hate to share them.   If the link is super long with all that extra spam type stuff you delete everything after the  .html    Headfi actually expects us to do that. 

So the one you posted ends up like this.  Links are always appreciated because the search function on aliexpress is horrible.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot...-Flat-Head-earphone-Pk-Mx985/32805136073.html

This one looks to be the one that people were praising... including my husband @HungryPanda     We just refer to it as the Fengru Silver.   It does not seem to have a name.

edit... actually he has it in his list as Fengru DIY 16 ohm Silver (AA-0122)


----------



## Ira Delphic

mbwilson111 said:


> Here is a tip that will help with aliexpress links so that you will not hate to share them.   If the link is super long with all that extra spam type stuff you delete everything after the  .html    Headfi actually expects us to do that.
> 
> So the one you posted ends up like this.  Links are always appreciated because the search function on aliexpress is horrible.
> 
> ...



I wish you people would just stop it LOL! It looks like there are two types of cables? the ones in the last two links more like a standard Monk + black cable, as opposed to the silvery cables. I'm not sure that I need another pair of budget earbuds. I'm trying to just say no . Marie Kondo would say no!


----------



## subwoof3r

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Very detailed and analytical, layering is out of this world for the price and highs sparkle are to die for. But performance is inconsistant and some shrill in bass or vocal can happen at very high volume...still need more listen to them cause sometime im blown away and other time i feel they are defect. But near neutral and ultra detailed, small soundstage but excellent layering.
> 
> 
> WHAT!!!!!!!!!
> ...


In the link you shared there is nothing that says beeing the TINGO TG-38S, are you sure you bought a TG-38S ? (or maybe your link is wrong?) otherwise physically it looks like a TG-38S.


----------



## mbwilson111

Ira Delphic said:


> I wish you people would just stop it LOL! It looks like there are two types of cables? the ones in the last two links more like a standard Monk + black cable, as opposed to the silvery cables. I'm not sure that I need another pair of budget earbuds. I'm trying to just say no . Marie Kondo would say no!



She would say no to almost everything.  You might be allowed one bud.

This does not look like a Monk+ cable to me... this is like the one we have here.


----------



## antdroid

Nymphonomaniac said:


> I really love my PMV A01 MK2 earphones...still wait for another 50-150$ iem from this company....about scarf, did they give it when you buy stuffs or just for reviewer so they can make Penon publicity in winter?
> 
> No but seriously....im curious to know how they compare to the Nicehck EB2 (wich I didnt love alot...).



I have not heard the EB2, but it was something I was considering buying too.

As for the scarf, I have no idea why it was included. I bought the PMV AOEDE and the Moondrop Kanas Pro (not review samples). They have a tiny iron on Penon logo on the bottom of it. haha. I'll have to take a photo. Penon has usually always thrown random free stuff in their packages. Usually its free ear tips or foams or a greeting card, but a scarf is new to me. I do buy from Penon often (every couple months), so maybe it's just a random gift for frequent customers.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

subwoof3r said:


> In the link you shared there is nothing that says beeing the TINGO TG-38S, are you sure you bought a TG-38S ? (or maybe your link is wrong?) otherwise physically it looks like a TG-38S.


 Yeah, your right....i make this assumption after hesitating between 2 store and choosing the one that have free shipping cause im too cheap. I'm pretty sure they are but without official branding and pretty sure the one from this store that show tingo sell the same...but we never know with chifi, wich would explain the opposite impressions we have...but another time, they can change tuning or drivers lot of time with same models as well. Was thinking its better to call them Tingo but MX985 is perhaps more appropriate.  

EDIT: will change it for PK MX985 then.


----------



## Ira Delphic

mbwilson111 said:


> She would say no to almost everything.  You might be allowed one bud.
> 
> This does not look like a Monk+ cable to me... this is like the one we have here.



Nevermind... I viewed at higher res. When "Color" is selected it shows a longer shot of the earbuds. The rings (seaworm) pattern isn't as evident in the cable.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

antdroid said:


> I have not heard the EB2, but it was something I was considering buying too.
> 
> As for the scarf, I have no idea why it was included. I bought the PMV AOEDE and the Moondrop Kanas Pro (not review samples). They have a tiny iron on Penon logo on the bottom of it. haha. I'll have to take a photo. Penon has usually always thrown random free stuff in their packages. Usually its free ear tips or foams or a greeting card, but a scarf is new to me. I do buy from Penon often (every couple months), so maybe it's just a random gift for frequent customers.









Always nice to have gift.
Wow man....KAnas Pro, congrats! Thats serious stuff (me jealous).


----------



## waynes world (Jan 29, 2019)

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Yeah, your right....i make this assumption after hesitating between 2 store and choosing the one that have free shipping cause im too cheap. I'm pretty sure they are but without official branding and pretty sure the one from this store that show tingo sell the same...but we never know with chifi, wich would explain the opposite impressions we have...but another time, they can change tuning or drivers lot of time with same models as well. Was thinking its better to call them Tingo but MX985 is perhaps more appropriate.
> 
> EDIT: will change it for PK MX985 then.



But where did you get Tingo from?

Edit: I see it now. But you didn't get those ones. You got the other "Fengru Silver" ones that mbwilson111 has. Got it.


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> But where did you get Tingo from?
> 
> Edit: I see it now. But you didn't get those ones. You got the other "Fengru Silver" ones that mbwilson111 has. Got it.



I don't have them but I have seen them close up.  HungryPanda has them.  BTW, we rarely listen to each others stuff... when would we have time?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 29, 2019)

Nymphonomaniac said:


> MX985 is perhaps more appropriate.



The MX985 was an expensive model of Sennheiser.



Nymphonomaniac said:


> EDIT: will change it for PK MX985 then.



Thing is, it is not a PK shell.   I think sellers just put things like that in the title so that the item will come up in various searches.  That is also why they used to say "Monk killer" in many product listings... because then anyone searching for a Monk would find the listing.


----------



## mochill

So I'll be getting 5 new earbuds altogether,  kube1, kube2,  shiny ivory white Victor earbud , Sweden happy plug gold , and the JVC Victor bud.  Thanks you for my wallets (^_^♪)


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> The MX985 was an expensive model of Sennheiser.
> 
> 
> 
> Thing is, it is not a PK shell.   I think sellers just put things like that in the title so that the item will come up in various searches.  That is also why they used to say "Monk killer" in many product listings... because then anyone searching for a Monk would find the listing.


I agree - it's search bait.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

mbwilson111 said:


> The MX985 was an expensive model of Sennheiser.
> 
> 
> 
> Thing is, it is not a PK shell.   I think sellers just put things like that in the title so that the item will come up in various searches.  That is also why they used to say "Monk killer" in many product listings... because then anyone searching for a Monk would find the listing.



No im very confuse...i dont know how to call them! think I will go back to tingo....ugh.


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> Here is a tip that will help with aliexpress links so that you will not hate to share them.   If the link is super long with all that extra spam type stuff you delete everything after the  .html    Headfi actually expects us to do that.
> 
> So the one you posted ends up like this.  Links are always appreciated because the search function on aliexpress is horrible.
> 
> ...





Nymphonomaniac said:


> No im very confuse...i dont know how to call them! think I will go back to tingo....ugh.



Why not call it "Fengru DIY 16 ohm Silver (AA-0122)" like mbwilson111 suggested?


----------



## mbwilson111

Nymphonomaniac said:


> No im very confuse...i dont know how to call them! think I will go back to tingo....ugh.



But it is not that either.  Often on aliexpress there will be several sellers each putting their name on it.

They all come from the same factory.

Just call it the Fengru DIY 16 ohm Silver (AA-0122)

That is actually accurate.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

mbwilson111 said:


> But it is not that either.  Often on aliexpress there will be several sellers each putting their name on it.
> 
> They all come from the same factory.
> 
> ...



Okay DONE. Fengru DIY 16 ohm Silver (AA-0122) it is then.

I'm happy to know HungryPanda love them too! Feel lees hysterical now.

Must have imo at this price. I prefer them over MX500 but its my taste, prefer the sweet immersive vocal of Fengru Silver. But bass is a little slower and less punchy. Anyway, the sound is more cohesive and musical to me.


----------



## Matarro

mochill said:


> So I'll be getting 5 new earbuds altogether,  kube1, kube2,  shiny ivory white Victor earbud , Sweden happy plug gold , and the JVC Victor bud.  Thanks you for my wallets (^_^♪)



Let me know how you like the Happyplugs! Are they the earbuds or the earpods? I've seen them in local stores but for some reason never considered buying them.


----------



## mochill

Happy plug is the 16mm driver earbud


----------



## CasstardPie

palestofwhite said:


> Anybody tried this earbuds to headphone mod yet



I believe these are just a hoax. The review quotes are fake, especially the one attributed to Tyll. In any case they would sound like crap, considerin


----------



## ValSilva

Ira Delphic said:


> Marie Kondo would say no!


I love it


----------



## exavolt

mbwilson111 said:


> Here is a tip that will help with aliexpress links so that you will not hate to share them.   If the link is super long with all that extra spam type stuff you delete everything after the  .html    Headfi actually expects us to do that.


I thought that only me do that (don't usually paying attention to others' links here). My rationale is that the baggage after .html (or after the question mark) is not affecting the actual page you are after; it's a tracking ID. With this tracking ID, AE could relate one account to another, which can be used to provide suggestions to other stuff, which probably you had never searched for (wonder why they suggested you some lingerie even though you only buying audio stuff?).


----------



## waynes world

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Okay DONE. Fengru DIY 16 ohm Silver (AA-0122) it is then.
> 
> I'm happy to know HungryPanda love them too! Feel lees hysterical now.
> 
> Must have imo at this price. I prefer them over MX500 but its my taste, prefer the sweet immersive vocal of Fengru Silver. But bass is a little slower and less punchy. Anyway, the sound is more cohesive and musical to me.



Now that we finally have a correct name for them... great review!


----------



## waynes world (Jan 29, 2019)

nick n said:


> ^ probably not.
> Had them on for a walk just now again.
> With the same clips as waynesworld linked there was no dislodging at all.
> Clipped right above the y-split spot.
> ...



Word of warning that Nick and I wanted to share.

I bought these clips from Penonaudio:
https://penonaudio.com/cable-shirt-clip.html

At the same time, Nick bought these ebay clips, and then a while later I bought them as well (to supplement my Penon clips):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-PCS-Durable-Earphone-Cable-Lapel-Clip-Clamp-Mount-Holder-MP3-iPhone-Radio/272949541787?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

We assumed they were pretty much the same, but I just got my ebay clips, and they are definitely a _bit _different...

The one on the left is from Penonaudio, and the one on the right is from ebay (I'm calling that one "monster clip" lol):


 

Fyi!


----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> Word of warning that Nick and I wanted to share.
> 
> I bought these clips from Penonaudio:
> https://penonaudio.com/cable-shirt-clip.html
> ...



Or, get some of these natural, organic models...  
.


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> Or, get some of these natural, organic models...
> .



Lol! That's _almost_ as big as "monster clip"!


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

So falling back in earbuds phase, I begin some DIY project with 2$ VIDO recabling and really like how the sounstage expend with this Agptek body
This project take me a big 5 minutes and worth every seconds of effort and 3$ total investment ahah









Still, nothing beat a SPC recabling and I just bought these beauty for 3.50$ at RY store:


----------



## golov17

waynes world said:


> Word of warning that Nick and I wanted to share.
> 
> I bought these clips from Penonaudio:
> https://penonaudio.com/cable-shirt-clip.html
> ...


Same here!


----------



## Willber

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Must have imo at this price. I prefer them over *MX500 *but its my taste, prefer the sweet immersive vocal of Fengru Silver.


I presume you mean the EMX500? MX500 is the generic shell (based on the original Sennheiser MX500) used by many sellers - including your Fengru Silver! 
They do like to make things confusing.


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Word of warning that Nick and I wanted to share.
> 
> I bought these clips from Penonaudio:
> https://penonaudio.com/cable-shirt-clip.html
> ...



looks nice, but will it dent/bent the cable too much because of the spring?


----------



## 40760

CasstardPie said:


> I believe these are just a hoax. The review quotes are fake, especially the one attributed to Tyll. In any case they would sound like crap, considerin



I've removed my post just in case the product turns out to be a hoax.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 30, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Well At $25 I put in my email to try em. Who knows?
> 
> The reddit is pretty funny reading. People killing this thing, but haven't tried em yet. Funny stuff.


Because the item shown in the picture will never sound good.

Ever held an earbud more than 1cm away from your ear? How does it sound?

This will sound no different, except you'll be wearing a heavy headphone on top of it.

The design doesn't seem to make an effort to put the earbud in your ear first, but even if it did it's not going to improve SQ at all. It will actually make it sound less open sounding similar to putting your hands over your ears whilst wearing earbuds.

This product is a complete scam or a hoax, but your free to be our test subject if you wanna try it.


----------



## viatraco

@HungryPanda , could you tell something about SQ in Linsoul DTM DIY PK1 A8 ?
https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/Lins...inany-Kabel-MMCX-Earbuds-PK1/32867662218.html

What is the diference in sound between A8 and PK1 ? I was asking seller but did't respond.

I'm wondering if is comparable in sound quality with Linsoul BLD 150Ohm...
https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/BLD-...ne-Wysokiej-Wierno-ci-HiFi-S/32869327378.html

I need good quality earbuds with mmcx connectors. I've tried Toneking TO65 and **** BK2 but their sound signature is not for me. I like VE Asura's 2.0 sound and want to try ZEN 2.0 also.
Thank you


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Because the item shown in the picture will never sound good.
> 
> Ever held an earbud more than 1cm away from your ear? How does it sound?
> 
> ...



might as well better off using earbuds and buy those industrial/shooting ear muffs than this


----------



## HungryPanda (Jan 30, 2019)

viatraco said:


> @HungryPanda , could you tell something about SQ in Linsoul DTM DIY PK1 A8 ?
> https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/Lins...inany-Kabel-MMCX-Earbuds-PK1/32867662218.html
> 
> What is the diference in sound between A8 and PK1 ? I was asking seller but did't respond.
> ...


Hi viatraco, the  linsoul PK1 A8 is a little fuller & more energetic sounding than the pk1. Linsoul do have a certain house sound. The BLD150 is smoother sounding but need more power to drive it than the A8 but the AB does have removable cables due to the mmcx connectors. I personally prefer the BLD 150, it just sounds so good


----------



## Ira Delphic

Where are Vidos available for $2 for US customers? I can only find this.
At $2 I need many pairs!


Note: The junk in the URL after html has been removed


----------



## Ira Delphic

chinmie said:


> might as well better off using earbuds and buy those industrial/shooting ear muffs than this



I posted my experience on earbuds with industrial earmuffs in 2016!

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-886#post-12976767

It fell on deaf ears (sorry for bad pun).


----------



## snip3r77

Ira Delphic said:


> Where are Vidos available for $2 for US customers? I can only find this.
> At $2 I need many pairs!
> 
> 
> Note: The junk in the URL after html has been removed



cheapest I can find
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-5...947.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.64654c4dU9tcbc


----------



## snip3r77 (Jan 30, 2019)

Just received my Snow Lotus 1.0 plus
first impression after running in for 30secs

The sound Vido is supposed to be *wink*

Anyone knows the diff btw normal 1.0plus and commerative 1.0plus LOL


----------



## BadReligionPunk

seanc6441 said:


> Because the item shown in the picture will never sound good.
> 
> Ever held an earbud more than 1cm away from your ear? How does it sound?
> 
> ...


Well at first, it seemed that there was some way that the headphones were amplifying the sound. Second look and it seems impossible so yea its probably a hoax designed to gather emails for some reason. I signed up but then was sent a confirmation email asking me to confirm, which I did not do.


----------



## Willber

Ira Delphic said:


> Where are Vidos available for $2 for US customers? I can only find this.
> At $2 I need many pairs!


These are showing as $2.15 from here in the UK.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Spo...-Flat-Head-Plug-HIFI-Headset/32830431361.html

(The pictures don't show Vido but the actual buds have it on the shell.)


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac (Jan 30, 2019)

Ira Delphic said:


> Where are Vidos available for $2 for US customers? I can only find this.
> At $2 I need many pairs!
> 
> 
> Note: The junk in the URL after html has been removed


 Buy 2 pairs there, its legit and will buy more:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-5mm-Earphone-Earbud-In-Ear-Earphone-Flat-Head-Plug-Bass-Earphones-for-Xiaomi-Earphones-fone/32879097186.html


----------



## Ira Delphic

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Buy 2 pairs there, its legit and will buy more:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-5mm-Earphone-Earbud-In-Ear-Earphone-Flat-Head-Plug-Bass-Earphones-for-Xiaomi-Earphones-fone/32879097186.html



Thanks! Amazing if I get good copies. BTW I removed the extra tracking stuff after HTML in the above link.


----------



## mbwilson111

Ira Delphic said:


> Thanks! Amazing if I get good copies. BTW I removed the extra tracking stuff after HTML in the above link.



Seems like the post I made explaining how to do that was mostly useless. I know that some other users other than us do it but too many don't.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Ira Delphic said:


> Thanks! Amazing if I get good copies. BTW I removed the extra tracking stuff after HTML in the above link.



Yeah its insane price....was already thinking this at 4$...now I don't see the goal of trying to find cheap earbuds drivers...but feel bad about trowing cheap cable in garbage (not the shell, wich is nice too).

OH, the html link stuff was simple, will do that for sure with every ALI links now. (im dumb with this kind of stuffs and was more paranoid about affiliated links aspect of shady sharer)


----------



## HungryPanda (Jan 30, 2019)

I find the vido drivers very fragile, I have wrecked quite a few opening shells. There are also many better drivers for a good price. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-Selling-5-Pair-DIY-EMX500-earphone-Speaker-15-4-mm-speaker-HiFi-Bass-Sound-quality/32855076228.html or 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...r-Bass-Sound-quality-Speaker/32852183138.html


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

HungryPanda said:


> I find the vido drivers very fragile, I have wrecked quite a few opening shells. There are also many better drivers for a good price. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-Selling-5-Pair-DIY-EMX500-earphone-Speaker-15-4-mm-speaker-HiFi-Bass-Sound-quality/32855076228.html or
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...r-Bass-Sound-quality-Speaker/32852183138.html



Never have problem with them and even soldered 2 times my first clumsy project....but its true that buying ins small lot can cost less (but earbuds shell can be costy too)....plan to try one of these lot soon....but WAIT!

Panda, did the fengru drivers are Fengru silver one???


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> I find the vido drivers very fragile, I have wrecked quite a few opening shells. There are also many better drivers for a good price. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-Selling-5-Pair-DIY-EMX500-earphone-Speaker-15-4-mm-speaker-HiFi-Bass-Sound-quality/32855076228.html or
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...r-Bass-Sound-quality-Speaker/32852183138.html


They are also 15.6mm rather than the standard 15.4mm driver size. They are the only mx500 driver I tried that would not fit in the metal covers I bought.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 30, 2019)

Does anyone know the most effective way to remove glue from earbuds (trying to open covers on some metal shell earbuds).

I heard someone mention glue dissolver once but not sure with type or product to look for.

Thanks if anyone can point me in the right direction that would be great!


----------



## HungryPanda

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Never have problem with them and even soldered 2 times my first clumsy project....but its true that buying ins small lot can cost less (but earbuds shell can be costy too)....plan to try one of these lot soon....but WAIT!
> 
> Panda, did the fengru drivers are Fengru silver one???


 I'm not sure but I made a few earbuds with these ones and they do sound good


----------



## HungryPanda

Shells are not too expensive https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5-P...one-Shell-Earbud-Housing-for/32910266439.html


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

HungryPanda said:


> I'm not sure but I made a few earbuds with these ones and they do sound good



Okay nice, did you prefer them to the eMX500 drivers?

About shell, I would like finding bigger-thicker one, like a plastic EBX or the Agptek I share here, im curious about soundstage potential of such shell with the different drivers.


----------



## HungryPanda

They sound different to the EMX500 drivers but I liked the result of both. the MX760 shell is a little bigger https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MX760-headphone-shell-for-diy-eraphone-headset/32811264808.html

I also made a few with these https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...e-doesn-t-contain-the/923848_32960838717.html

these look good https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...t-contain-front-cover/923848_32259862462.html


----------



## Ira Delphic

seanc6441 said:


> Does anyone know the most effective way to remove glue from earbuds (trying to open covers on some metal shell earbuds).
> 
> I heard someone mention glue dissolver once but not sure with type or product to look for.
> 
> Thanks if anyone can point me in the right direction that would be great!



I don't mod. I always assumed you guys used a heat gun to melt the glue. If not, I'm sure you have your reasons.


----------



## mbwilson111

Ira Delphic said:


> I don't mod. I always assumed you guys used a heat gun to melt the glue. If not, I'm sure you have your reasons.



I have seen people mention heat guns.


----------



## subwoof3r

HungryPanda said:


> I find the vido drivers very fragile, I have wrecked quite a few opening shells. There are also many better drivers for a good price. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-Selling-5-Pair-DIY-EMX500-earphone-Speaker-15-4-mm-speaker-HiFi-Bass-Sound-quality/32855076228.html or
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...r-Bass-Sound-quality-Speaker/32852183138.html


The first link is the drivers I currently use for my EMX500 mods, and they just sound fantastic. They answers perfectly to my many mod tries, yet.
Did you tried the ones from your second link? if yes, how does they sound compared to the first link ? could be interested
I also tried *these EMX500 drivers* that I use too and they sound very good too (just need some bass reflex in the shells (which I did) to sound close to perfection).

You are right about Vido drivers, when I made my color and cables swap for them I had a little surprise in one driver, I faced voice coil, so I had to be extremely careful but everything was working perfectly back 
I think I'm one of those rare guys to not really like Vido sound, which I find way too much "darky" and too much V-pronounced for my taste


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 30, 2019)

Ira Delphic said:


> I don't mod. I always assumed you guys used a heat gun to melt the glue. If not, I'm sure you have your reasons.


Risk to damaging the driver. If it's hot enough to melt glue it could damage the thin plastic membrane. And metal being so conductive of heat makes it diffilcult to work with. I tried touching asoldering iron against the shell and it got very hot but didn't seem to do the trick.

Ideally I'd like to dissolve the glue enough to pry it open. I remember someone mentioned it before but I cannot seem to find it in the thread.

It's for my Ks black ling, i got the first cover open easier, but the other side is proving very difficult.


----------



## HungryPanda

I use a thin knife or some tools I got for opening phones and tablets


----------



## alias71

Can you recommend a 2.5mm balanced cable for the VE Zen 2.0 Omega Edition more flexible than the standard VE Oyaide cable?
Thanks!


----------



## golov17

alias71 said:


> Can you recommend a 2.5mm balanced cable for the VE Zen 2.0 Omega Edition more flexible than the standard VE Oyaide cable?
> Thanks!


Venture Electronics VE Basic 0.78 2pin to 3.5SE 2.5trrs 3.5trrs Pure Blue Cable 
http://s.aliexpress.com/2AfaEBBj 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## DBaldock9

alias71 said:


> Can you recommend a 2.5mm balanced cable for the VE Zen 2.0 Omega Edition more flexible than the standard VE Oyaide cable?
> Thanks!





golov17 said:


> Venture Electronics VE Basic 0.78 2pin to 3.5SE 2.5trrs 3.5trrs Pure Blue Cable
> http://s.aliexpress.com/2AfaEBBj
> (from AliExpress Android)



I agree with @golov17 - but one thing I have noticed about the Pure Blue Cable, is that it's handmade, and the clear heat shrink used at the 2-Pin connectors makes them longer than the stock molded connectors.
Since I wear my earbud cables over-the-ear, these longer than usual connectors cause the wires to be high enough to hit the temple pieces of my glasses.
Other than that one issue, the Pure Blue Cable is really soft, flexible, and light weight - which is good for earbuds.


----------



## golov17

DBaldock9 said:


> I agree with @golov17 - but one thing I have noticed about the Pure Blue Cable, is that it's handmade, and the clear heat shrink used at the 2-Pin connectors makes them longer than the stock molded connectors.
> Since I wear my earbud cables over-the-ear, these longer than usual connectors cause the wires to be high enough to hit the temple pieces of my glasses.
> Other than that one issue, the Pure Blue Cable is really soft, flexible, and light weight - which is good for earbuds.


----------



## Hououin Kyouma

Another chance for you to get Snow Lotus 1.0 Plus  Pre sale:
https://aliexpress.com/item/FAAEAL-...arbuds-Commemorative-Edition/32966966924.html


----------



## 40760

golov17 said:


>



Is that a Penon cable beside the Pure Blue?


----------



## Willber

Hououin Kyouma said:


> Another chance for you to get Snow Lotus 1.0 Plus  Pre sale:
> https://aliexpress.com/item/FAAEAL-...arbuds-Commemorative-Edition/32966966924.html


That was quick on their part, they told me they might have some in about a month. Good work by Faaeal.


----------



## Ira Delphic

Hououin Kyouma said:


> Another chance for you to get Snow Lotus 1.0 Plus  Pre sale:
> https://aliexpress.com/item/FAAEAL-...arbuds-Commemorative-Edition/32966966924.html



Mine should be arriving soon. If it lives up to the high regard mentioned here/sound signature, I still may have time to get a backup pair!


----------



## seanc6441

I listened to the kube bud for 30 seconds before drilling a bass port in each unit!

Not because it's bad, but because I knew right away these buds sound best with no foams. Adding the bass port gives the perfect amount of tamed highs and bumped low end to wear these foamless without fatigue and I find myself blasting the volume with these and loving it.

These are such fun earbuds, coloured but not peaky. Treble is rolled slightly but they are not dark.

The soundstage is just fantastic, really enveloping and presents big like a full size can.

I prefer the bass with the port open and foamless, it's full and hits with just enough authority but doesn't bleed into the mids at all.

Mids are smooth and clear. They are nicely balanced in the mix and not recessed.

The detail isn't outstanding but it's good enough. It's around vido/emx500 levels. I think i might prefer them overall, they are somewhere between those two tonality wise.

These are slightly less detailed than the ry4s but more fun if you want a smooth enveloping sound rather than a drier analytical sound.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> I listened to the kube bud for 30 seconds before drilling a bass port in each unit!
> 
> Not because it's bad, but because I knew right away these buds sound best with no foams. Adding the bass port gives the perfect amount of tamed highs and bumped low end to wear these foamless without fatigue and I find myself blasting the volume with these and loving it.
> 
> ...



Nice! I'm not sure I would do it, but how does one go about adding bass ports to them?


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

So...what happen with this TINGO brand?

Just read on ''earbuds anonymous'' somebody that suggest TC200 for great bass and make fast google search and find this picture share ON THIS VERY THREAD like billions year ago (page 235 lol)

After i became obsess making more search finding this very TC200...unsuccessful.

Why....why....WHY! Anybody know a way to find them or...is it now the very Fengru Silver im excited about (yeah, they are called TC200 too sometime ugh)


----------



## DBaldock9

Question for any of you who have been assembling your own earbuds lately - Does it look like these 14.8mm Planar Magnetic drivers are designed for an earbud shell, or an earphone housing?
*NOTE:* They are $136.50 /pair.  https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...siast-DIY-headphones/1396671_32953543325.html
.


----------



## golov17

palestofwhite said:


> Is that a Penon cable beside the Pure Blue?


Yep


----------



## golov17

DBaldock9 said:


> Question for any of you who have been assembling your own earbuds lately - Does it look like these 14.8mm Planar Magnetic drivers are designed for an earbud shell, or an earphone housing?
> *NOTE:* They are $136.50 /pair.  https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...siast-DIY-headphones/1396671_32953543325.html
> .


Toneking bl1


----------



## kovik

alias71 said:


> Can you recommend a 2.5mm balanced cable for the VE Zen 2.0 Omega Edition more flexible than the standard VE Oyaide cable?
> Thanks!


This cheap one is compatible too and flexible.
US $7.79  48%OFF | AK TRN 8 Core Upgraded Silver Plated Cable 3.5 MMCX Earphone Upgrade Cable for SE846 LZ A5 MAGAOSI HQ5 HQ6 HQ8
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/9BGpdwD


----------



## DBaldock9

kovik said:


> This cheap one is compatible too and flexible.
> US $7.79  48%OFF | AK TRN 8 Core Upgraded Silver Plated Cable 3.5 MMCX Earphone Upgrade Cable for SE846 LZ A5 MAGAOSI HQ5 HQ6 HQ8
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/9BGpdwD



Well, that's an MMCX cable, whereas the VE Omega Earbuds use 0.78 2-Pin connectors.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 31, 2019)

DBaldock9 said:


> Question for any of you who have been assembling your own earbuds lately - Does it look like these 14.8mm Planar Magnetic drivers are designed for an earbud shell, or an earphone housing?
> *NOTE:* They are $136.50 /pair.  https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...siast-DIY-headphones/1396671_32953543325.html
> .


My guess is IEM. Firstly it takes a much larger planar driver than dynamic driver to produce somewhat similar results in the bass if we look at most planar headphone or iem designs, they are usually much bigger. Also afaik most planar drivers need a good seal to measure well. Earbuds dont provide that.

If you put that in an earbud shell I don't you would get any low end. Seems they are for iems where the seal is excellent and thus can allow that great linear extension.


----------



## kovik

DBaldock9 said:


> Well, that's an MMCX cable, whereas the VE Omega Earbuds use 0.78 2-Pin connectors.


There is 2.5MM 0.78PIN variant that works well I have one.


----------



## seanc6441

@waynes world 

Admittedly it became more than just a simple bass port, I've now modded it pretty extensively and am liking the results a lot, you can run foamless for a neutral-full sound or you can add donut foams for absolutely epic bass that seems to hit deep without any mid bass bump. To my ear it basically measures almost flat from 40-200hz which is really impressive for earbuds, most of which peak at like 100hz and drop off after that.

I can give a description of the mods and how to do them, but I'd rather make a good write up for that to avoid any confusion or anyone messing up their kubes because of me!


All I'll say it it's a better sound than the vido, emx500 and it rivals the r4ys for me but with a smoother more musical tone. I'd love to measure this thing, there's like one peak at 5khz and the rest is just smooth sailing from top to bottom.


----------



## Willber

seanc6441 said:


> @waynes worldAll I'll say it it's a better sound than the vido, emx500 and it rivals the r4ys for me but with a smoother more musical tone. I'd love to measure this thing, there's like one peak at 5khz and the rest is just smooth sailing from top to bottom.


I don't want to sound rude but I already have a number of budget buds that (IMO) are better than those three. My Kubes are on the way and I was hoping they would be better as well, without modding. Am I missing something?


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> I don't want to sound rude but I already have a number of budget buds that (IMO) are better than those three. My Kubes are on the way and I was hoping they would be better as well, without modding. Am I missing something?



My Kubes have arrived in the country.  I am sure I will enjoy the stock sound.  I bet you will too.  Some people love to mod.  It is just another side to the hobby.


----------



## waynes world (Jan 31, 2019)

Willber said:


> I don't want to sound rude but I already have a number of budget buds that (IMO) are better than those three. My Kubes are on the way and I was hoping they would be better as well, without modding. Am I missing something?



Everyone's ears are different. But the Kube's are favorites of mine, regardless of their price. They are truly unique. Like mbwilson111 says, I'm sure you will enjoy their stock sound.

Sean's mod might make an awesome bud even awesomer lol. Still, if I had only one pair of them, I would never consider modding them. And even though I do have a spare pair, I'd probably want to get another pair before modifying



seanc6441 said:


> @waynes world
> 
> Admittedly it became more than just a simple bass port, I've now modded it pretty extensively and am liking the results a lot, you can run foamless for a neutral-full sound or you can add donut foams for absolutely epic bass that seems to hit deep without any mid bass bump. To my ear it basically measures almost flat from 40-200hz which is really impressive for earbuds, most of which peak at like 100hz and drop off after that.
> 
> ...



Just sell me yours lol. Seriously though, a nice pictorial tutorial would be great.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 31, 2019)

Willber said:


> I don't want to sound rude but I already have a number of budget buds that (IMO) are better than those three. My Kubes are on the way and I was hoping they would be better as well, without modding. Am I missing something?


Well what I meant was it has aspects of all 3  In stock form but I definitely prefer them modded. Like it's enough of an upgrade that I'm going to mod the second pair tomorrow and they will probably become my go to earbuds for a non analytical pure enjoyment listening.

The stock sound is nice and all but it just sounds more to my preference after the mods. Bass was deeper, mids fuller and more open staging. I wish i could measure them tbh, to see if it aligns with what im hearing.

Because the mod literally involed opening up the shell quite a bit, and dampening the open parts to tune the amount of airflow, ill snap a quick picture to show what I mean, but the tuning inside involved quite a bit of tinkering to get the right tonality for use without foams.


As you can see there's an extra vent on each side at the bottom and one at the top. As well as a bass port with a piece of foam in it to adjust it slightly that you cannot see.

For tuning I was going for one thing, making them sound BIG and musical. These things put out impressive stage width with good imaging in the mids when tuned right, vocals sounded phenomenal.

They sound much more cuppy/and a little hollow without the extra venting. Clarity was not effected by opening the shell up as long as i use the right filters inside.

Anywho I'm sure you'll like it stock, but I thought it was a good candidate to go foamless with because it was bassy and the treble was just right without foams, it became a little too smoothed and duller with foams tbh.

The white pair i have actually doesn't have the same peak at 5khz as the blue, so ill mod that one tomorrow and hopefully get even better results.

These are probably the best $8 I spent on earbuds tbh, usually even the best budget buds sound like earbuds, these are different beasts as the sound really fills out the soundstage and the lows extend well, and actually so do the highs, they just aren't over done.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jan 31, 2019)

waynes world said:


> Everyone's ears are different. But the Kube's are favorites of mine, regardless of their price. They are truly unique. Like mbwilson111 says, I'm sure you will enjoy their stock sound.
> 
> Sean's mod might make an awesome bud even awesomer lol. Still, if I had only one pair of them, I would never consider modding them. And even though I do have a spare pair, I'd probably want to get another pair before modifying
> 
> ...


I bought two for that exact reason, incase i mess one up!

Suffice to say i will DEFINITELY be modding the second pair, the upgrade was pretty substantial if you enjoy earbuds that sound like full size open backs!


----------



## chinmie

Willber said:


> I don't want to sound rude but I already have a number of budget buds that (IMO) are better than those three. My Kubes are on the way and I was hoping they would be better as well, without modding. Am I missing something?



the kube sounds good even without modding. i prefer foamless or thin foams at minimal to focus on the subbass. adding thicker foams increases the midbass and warms up the treble too much for my taste.


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> the kube sounds good even without modding. i prefer foamless or thin foams at minimal to focus on the subbass. adding thicker foams increases the midbass and warms up the treble too much for my taste.


Adding foams also moves the drivers further from the ear which has a negative effect on the vocals imo.

So to counter the lesser bass i just opened it up more. Now It's very full and dynamic without any foams.

And the vocals and treble are very enjoyable.


----------



## Willber

Thanks for your replies, all. I've got a feeling I didn't explain myself well - I shouldn't post late just before I go to bed!
Anyway, I shall wait for mine to arrive - they're orange so I'm sure they'll be great!


----------



## seanc6441

Willber said:


> Thanks for your replies, all. I've got a feeling I didn't explain myself well - I shouldn't post late just before I go to bed!
> Anyway, I shall wait for mine to arrive - they're orange so I'm sure they'll be great!


It's hard to be disappointed with the sound these put out regardless of mods or not.


----------



## nhlean96

Nymphonomaniac said:


> So...what happen with this TINGO brand?
> 
> Just read on ''earbuds anonymous'' somebody that suggest TC200 for great bass and make fast google search and find this picture share ON THIS VERY THREAD like billions year ago (page 235 lol)
> 
> ...


Tingo TC200 is discontinued like ... forever.

You could find some on "Earbuds Anonymous" FB group, second hand.

Tingo is known for infamous inconsistency between batch, like what happened to my Tingo FL800 (I could say the IEM version of the Fengru Silver), my first pair was a miracle, but It went dead like... after 2 months, then I reorder from their site, and received a muddy, true nasal vocal sounding piece of cr*p that I never bother that they exist. 

FYI, below is the official site of Tingo, could be bought via a Taobao agent.
https://yimoooo.world.taobao.com/
As for the Fengru Silver, I don't think It's the TG-38S, the soundsign of those two are very different from each other. I don't own a TG-38S but I heard that many people didn't like them, they were too veiled and harsh, ... My Fengru Silver is very enjoyable, no peak, no sibilance, ... I'm sure anyone will enjoy them like they did when the Monk (32 ohms) released.


----------



## waynes world (Feb 1, 2019)

Battle of the "kinda blue" buds (snow lotus 1.0+ vs yincrow rw9)



Edit: Damn! ClieOS ain't wrong about the rw9's


----------



## snip3r77

waynes world said:


> Battle of the "kinda blue" buds (snow lotus 1.0+ vs yincrow rw9)
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Damn! ClieOS ain't wrong about the rw9's



ain't it better to use different colors for the sponge for easy identification?


----------



## waynes world (Feb 1, 2019)

snip3r77 said:


> ain't it better to use different colors for the sponge for easy identification?



You mean between L/R? Yeah, probably. I never believe that the different colored foams sound the same though lol, so I prefer to squint for the L/R markers!


----------



## exavolt

snip3r77 said:


> ain't it better to use different colors for the sponge for easy identification?


For symmetric plastic shells, I usually chipped a bit one of the buds using art knife just enough for my fingers to feel. It's the best side identification method for me. I don't need to look at the buds, and the method really shines in the dark.


----------



## viatraco

Does anybody VE Zen 2.0 used for sale ? Only European Union.


----------



## Winterheim

Nymphonomaniac said:


> So...what happen with this TINGO brand?
> 
> Just read on ''earbuds anonymous'' somebody that suggest TC200 for great bass and make fast google search and find this picture share ON THIS VERY THREAD like billions year ago (page 235 lol)
> 
> ...



The real Tingo TC200 (which is shown in that image that you've included in your post, and is also seen in the TC200 review here in head-fi) is already discontinued.

Now there are online stores that sell the "TC200" but is using the TG-38S shells (chrome). I can't recall where I read it (probably buried somewhere in this thread) but what Tingo was saying was that after they had discontinued the TC200, the remaining cables they had for it were used in their TG-38S line so that might have been where some online stores started labelling the TG-38S as the TC200 because the cables had TC200 laser-etched on the splitter section.

There's even an online store that sells the "TC300" which is basically the TG-38S shell with a different cable. >_<


----------



## Willber

exavolt said:


> For symmetric plastic shells, I usually chipped a bit one of the buds using art knife just enough for my fingers to feel. It's the best side identification method for me. I don't need to look at the buds, and the method really shines in the dark.


Same here.


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> You mean between L/R? Yeah, probably. I never believe that the different colored foams sound the same though lol, so I prefer to squint for the L/R markers!


Same here lol.

I always lean towards black foams. Or white as the second choice. The red/blue always seem lesser somehow.


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> Adding foams also moves the drivers further from the ear which has a negative effect on the vocals imo.



I think this is another case of different results with different ears.  Adding foams allow the drivers to be further into my ear.  With no foams most buds either slide around or fall out of my ear.  Foams stabilize them so that I can tuck a good bit of it under the tragus which , in my case, holds them firmly in place and as far in as a bud could go.  Maybe this is why any decent bud sounds really good to me...with foams.



seanc6441 said:


> Same here lol.
> 
> I always lean towards black foams. Or white as the second choice. The red/blue always seem lesser somehow.



I only have one bud where I used the red/blue combo.. the clear Monk plus.  It just seemed fitting to do it on those.  Otherwise I like the two sides to match.  I  have other ways to help tell right from left.  Usually I just use black or white or grey.... but sometimes I like to have a little more fun...

These buds arrived today along with my husband's blue Kube.   We did not notice that there was another tiny little package until he was leaving for work.  That one contained my colorful foams that we ordered weeks ago.   Just in time!


----------



## kadas152

Does anyone know about good thin and cheap and colorful foams?
I know about these black recommended here: https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cWedNvpr
But I prefer to have happy colors on my buds rather than black


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> I think this is another case of different results with different ears. Adding foams allow the drivers to be further into my ear. With no foams most buds either slide around or fall out of my ear. Foams stabilize them so that I can tuck a good bit of it under the tragus which , in my case, holds them firmly in place and as far in as a bud could go. Maybe this is why any decent bud sounds really good to me...with foams.



I didn't mean for every earbud, just in this particular case.

Although the theory remains the same for any of these earbuds, the closer the driver sits to the ear the more emphasis on low frequency. But obviously having no seal also reduces bass.

So the end result is tighter(lesser) bass emphasis, but more emphasis on low mids which makes them sound fuller.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 1, 2019)

kadas152 said:


> Does anyone know about good thin and cheap and colorful foams?
> I know about these black recommended here: https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cWedNvpr
> But I prefer to have happy colors on my buds rather than black



Mine were ordered from this link.  Took about two weeks to reach me here in the UK.  I ordered a pack each of purple. rose, and pink.   The ones in the photo above are the purple and the rose.  The pink is lighter and I have not decided yet what to use them on.  I do have a pink bud coming that I ordered just for the color.. if it does not sound good it will be a donor shell for a project.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/20p...phone-Earpads-Covers-MP3-MP4/32671911259.html


----------



## j4100 (Feb 1, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I only have one bud where I used the red/blue combo.. the clear Monk plus.  It just seemed fitting to do it on those.  Otherwise I like the two sides to match.  I  have other ways to help tell right from left.  Usually I just use black or white or grey.... but sometimes I like to have a little more fun...



I like mixing up the colours. i.e. red and blue, black and and white. Red=right and white=right. Easy to work out which one is left and right


----------



## Punslayer

mbwilson111 said:


> Mine were ordered from this link. Took about two weeks to reach me here in the UK. I ordered a pack each of purple. rose, and pink. The ones in the photo above are the purple and the rose. The pink is lighter and I have not decided yet what to use them on. I do have a pink bud coming that I ordered just for the color.. if it does not sound good it will be a donor shell for a project.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/20p...phone-Earpads-Covers-MP3-MP4/32671911259.html



If you're looking for pink earbuds, Audio Technica has one:

https://www.audio-technica.co.jp/atj/show_model.php?modelId=2347

Don't know about availability in the UK, but cdJapan has them.

http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/NEOACS-25609


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> I like mixing up the colours. i.e. red and blue, black and and white. Red=right and white=right. Easy to work out which one is left and right



It make me feel unsymmetrical.  I don't like that feeling

Like I said... there are other ways...

My silver Snow Lotus 1.0+


----------



## kadas152

mbwilson111 said:


> Mine were ordered from this link.  Took about two weeks to reach me here in the UK.  I ordered a pack each of purple. rose, and pink.   The ones in the photo above are the purple and the rose.  The pink is lighter and I have not decided yet what to use them on.  I do have a pink bud coming that I ordered just for the color.. if it does not sound good it will be a donor shell for a project.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/20p...phone-Earpads-Covers-MP3-MP4/32671911259.html


I have these actually thanks, but they are quite dense (as shown in the product picture). I wanted something thinner to have more options of sound and fit fine tuning.


----------



## nick n (Feb 1, 2019)

*mbwilson* those black Fareal are those the pre-monk "Bug Guys" ones, with the metal plug end outer ?
That's a great idea to put a red marking at the bottom also.


----------



## mbwilson111

nick n said:


> *mbwilson* those black Fareal are those the pre-monk "Bug Guys" ones, with the metal plug end outer ?
> That's a great idea to put a red marking at the bottom also.



Yes,  those are the pre-monk Fareals.  I have not had a chance to listen to them or the purple Kube other than to make sure they work and set them to burn in a bit...good that I have multiple daps   I  have been listening to the Kube 2.0 that arrived yesterday.

Waiting for the orange Kube that I ordered after the purple one.


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> It make me feel unsymmetrical.  I don't like that feeling



Haha! I felt that way for a while as well, but used to it now. I do like buds that have something in the design that distinguishes left from right.


----------



## chinmie

exavolt said:


> For symmetric plastic shells, I usually chipped a bit one of the buds using art knife just enough for my fingers to feel. It's the best side identification method for me. I don't need to look at the buds, and the method really shines in the dark.



rather than permanently scarring my "children", i usually wrap a little tape on the left cable near the shell, so i can feel which one's which in the dark. that way i can just remove the tape if necessary


----------



## waynes world

waynes world said:


> Battle of the "kinda blue" buds (snow lotus 1.0+ vs yincrow rw9)
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Damn! ClieOS ain't wrong about the rw9's



Btw, there are no winners here between the Snow Lotus 1.0+ Commemorative and the Yincrow RW-9. What I mean is, they are both winners. Both are amazing earbuds for the price.


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm just enjoying Coheed and Cambria with my Lotoo Paw 5000 mk2 and a pair of RY4S earbuds tonight


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Audio-Technica ATH-CM2000Ti - $400.00 USD Earbud from Audio Technica, Have anyone heard of it?


----------



## Willber

MidNighTempest said:


> Audio-Technica ATH-CM2000Ti - $400.00 USD Earbud from Audio Technica, Have anyone heard of it?


It's been mentioned a few times on here:
https://www.head-fi.org/search/23239506/?q=CM2000Ti&t=post&o=relevance&c[node]=103


----------



## rkw

In summary, ATH-CM2000Ti has mixed reviews from Japan, and Audio-Technica hasn't produced good buds recently. Given the price, the regulars on this thread have been reluctant to try it.


----------



## snip3r77

waynes world said:


> Btw, there are no winners here between the Snow Lotus 1.0+ Commemorative and the Yincrow RW-9. What I mean is, they are both winners. Both are amazing earbuds for the price.



I'm still burning my SL 1.0+, how long do you think it's sufficient?


----------



## waynes world

snip3r77 said:


> I'm still burning my SL 1.0+, how long do you think it's sufficient?



Um, at least 1 hour! Seriously, I've been enjoying them from the start in my ears.


----------



## subwoof3r

snip3r77 said:


> I'm still burning my SL 1.0+, how long do you think it's sufficient?


Both my pairs have now 120 hours of proper burning, they sound better to me now in all points. They still lack a bit of subbass and punch in bass area for my taste, this is the only "black" point to me. I'm still affraid trying to open them to make a hole on the shells in bass port.
Also, the cable is extremely microphonic from the Y-splitter to the earbuds.


----------



## seanc6441

snip3r77 said:


> I'm still burning my SL 1.0+, how long do you think it's sufficient?


If you really want to burn it in, try 20-50 hours. 1 full day (24 hours) should suffice, if there's no change after 24 hours I wouldn't expect any micracles to happen after 50.


----------



## golov17

viatraco said:


> Does anybody VE Zen 2.0 used for sale ? Only European Union.


https://www.acornaudio.co.uk/shop/v...OTPHWMPV_A5bBXE8hvibTTSrz-O9_OetdgfJ9j83alZJs


----------



## waynes world

subwoof3r said:


> Both my pairs have now 120 hours of proper burning, they sound better to me now in all points. They still lack a bit of subbass and punch in bass area for my taste, this is the only "black" point to me. I'm still affraid trying to open them to make a hole on the shells in bass port.
> Also, the cable is extremely microphonic from the Y-splitter to the earbuds.



As a point of reference, which buds provide you with the subbass and punch in bass areas that you're looking for?


----------



## waynes world

The Yincrow RW-9's are really good - thanks for the recommendation @ClieOS!

This is a pretty useful review of the Yincrow RW-9 (you need to let chrome translate it):
http://reproductormp3.net/index.php?topic=27849.0

This is regardng the mids:


> In the middle range, the voices stand out. And here I must redefine the concept of its naturalness. I think I remember writing that adjective associated with them several times. But this model exceeds or equal to the rest of my collection in that section. It is not a midcentric headset with advanced voices, but they do have a special treatment. At no time are they remote or muffled, nor do they sound muddy or nasal, but they have a point of warmth that makes them very pleasant, with good texture, well defined but not in great detail, due to the absence of brightness of the earbud . Of course said profile ensures the minimum wheezing in said section. By way of conclusion, the vocal range is very complete, full and enjoyable.



There are also some good comparisons with other budget buds, and this is his/her conclusion:



> *Conclusion:*
> It is difficult to recommend an earbud that approaches € 20 when there are so many alternatives below, and good as well. So in this case I would base my choice of profile more than other sound parameters.
> *The quality of the cable and the packaging are also favorable points. But I would openly recommend these earbuds to those who seek a warm and balanced sound, a point away from the typical V, of soft and controlled highs, very natural, musical and pleasant, nothing dark or congested, and with good dose and quality of serious .*



I 100% agree.


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> The Yincrow RW-9's are really good - thanks for the recommendation @ClieOS!
> 
> This is a pretty useful review of the Yincrow RW-9 (you need to let chrome translate it):
> http://reproductormp3.net/index.php?topic=27849.0
> ...



You are making me feel like I NEED one

What is that word again?  Enabler?


----------



## subwoof3r

waynes world said:


> As a point of reference, which buds provide you with the subbass and punch in bass areas that you're looking for?


Very good question! 
As a point of reference it is very hard to tell as I'm mainly comparing to my yet best own DIY EMX500. It adds the extra bass I'm looking for, but only with some mods on MX500 shells (bass holes mods).
But if I could compare with something I owned (or died, more precisely ) I guess it should be the EMX500S.


----------



## Ira Delphic

waynes world said:


> The Yincrow RW-9's are really good - thanks for the recommendation @ClieOS!
> 
> This is a pretty useful review of the Yincrow RW-9 (you need to let chrome translate it):
> http://reproductormp3.net/index.php?topic=27849.0
> ...



Interesting that one of the comparisons is to the EB200 which is a 200 Ohm earbud, and one of my favorite budget models. Proof you don't need to spend alot to get great sound from an earbud. 
The best price that I could find is from this store closed until February 12th for the Chinese New Year.


----------



## jibberish

Yincrow RW-9 will be in my mailbox when I get home tonight.  Pretty excited now


----------



## snip3r77

seanc6441 said:


> If you really want to burn it in, try 20-50 hours. 1 full day (24 hours) should suffice, if there's no change after 24 hours I wouldn't expect any micracles to happen after 50.



I'm just using it as per normal as it goes.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 2, 2019)

Ira Delphic said:


> The best price that I could find is from this store closed until February 12th for the Chinese New Year.





jibberish said:


> Yincrow RW-9 will be in my mailbox when I get home tonight.  Pretty excited now



My Yincrow RW-9 has been ordered. It won't ship for a couple of weeks because of the holiday.  Maybe it will be in my mailbox by the end of the month.

Just had to get in on that 50% off offer...ends in a few hours.


----------



## Ira Delphic

mbwilson111 said:


> My Yincrow RW-9 has been ordered. It won't ship for a couple of weeks because of the holiday.  Maybe it will be in my mailbox by the end of the month.
> 
> Just had to get in on that 50% off offer...ends in a few hours.



Yep me too. I ordered red like my X6.


----------



## mochill

Nobody else have the kube2


----------



## ClieOS

mbwilson111 said:


> What is that word again?  Enabler?



Seducer


----------



## waynes world

mochill said:


> Nobody else have the kube2



A few of us do. Whatcha
 think?


----------



## subwoof3r

waynes world said:


> Btw, there are no winners here between the Snow Lotus 1.0+ Commemorative and the Yincrow RW-9. What I mean is, they are both winners. Both are amazing earbuds for the price.


How would you evaluate the difference of bass and subbass quantity/impact between both ?


----------



## mbwilson111

mbwilson111 said:


> Just had to get in on that 50% off offer...ends in a few hours.



The 50% off offer on the Yincrow has been extended.  I think some of those sales do that automatically.



mochill said:


> Nobody else have the kube2



I have the Kube V2.  To quote @waynes world , whatcha think?


----------



## snip3r77

mbwilson111 said:


> The 50% off offer on the Yincrow has been extended.  I think some of those sales do that automatically.
> 
> 
> 
> I have the Kube V2.  To quote @waynes world , whatcha think?


What is half price ?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 3, 2019)

snip3r77 said:


> What is half price ?



$14.38

@Ira Delphic posted the link near the beginning of this page.


----------



## mochill

waynes world said:


> A few of us do. Whatcha
> think?


Still waiting for it


----------



## mbwilson111

mochill said:


> Still waiting for it



You will like it.  It sounds big... like a headphone.


----------



## RobinFood

I'm kind of looking around for an upgrade on my Willsound MK2. I can't seem to find anything that trumps it at local store except maybe the ATH-CM2000, but I'm not ready to put down that much money yet.
I was looking at the Toneking TO600s and the new Masya Pros. They both seem like decent upgrades. Anyone with them and the MK2? Are they an upgrade?

I kind of want something analytical with a ton of detail, and if possible I want a change from the standard plastic shells, and replaceable cables would be nice as I might go bluetooth or short-cable.


----------



## mochill

mbwilson111 said:


> You will like it.  It sounds big... like a headphone.


I know I'll like it,  also I found the kube1 to have a little bit of lower treble spike for me so I'll be burning it in more to see if it evens out.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 3, 2019)

mochill said:


> I know I'll like it,  also I found the kube1 to have a little bit of lower treble spike for me so I'll be burning it in more to see if it evens out.



I have burned-in both the kube 1 and the kube 2 for a couple of days playing continuously (lucky to have multiple daps).   I can never tell if anything changes.  I did not really have any time to listen before I burned them in  (other stuff arrived as well) but they both sound good to me now.  I am never sure how to test if something has a spike or not... but that might be different for different people anyway.  You could be sensitive to a particular frequency while someone else is not.   What frequency to you consider to be low treble?


----------



## golov17

RobinFood said:


> I'm kind of looking around for an upgrade on my Willsound MK2. I can't seem to find anything that trumps it at local store except maybe the ATH-CM2000, but I'm not ready to put down that much money yet.
> I was looking at the Toneking TO600s and the new Masya Pros. They both seem like decent upgrades. Anyone with them and the MK2? Are they an upgrade?
> 
> I kind of want something analytical with a ton of detail, and if possible I want a change from the standard plastic shells, and replaceable cables would be nice as I might go bluetooth or short-cable.


Just try Cypherus Audio ZoomFred Pro


----------



## golov17

MidNighTempest said:


> Audio-Technica ATH-CM2000Ti - $400.00 USD Earbud from Audio Technica, Have anyone heard of it?


Still waiting from New-York...


----------



## waynes world

subwoof3r said:


> How would you evaluate the difference of bass and subbass quantity/impact between both ?



I'll try to provide a more detailed answer later, but the SL1.0+ has more bass overall.



RobinFood said:


> I'm kind of looking around for an upgrade on my Willsound MK2. I can't seem to find anything that trumps it at local store except maybe the ATH-CM2000, but I'm not ready to put down that much money yet.
> I was looking at the Toneking TO600s and the new Masya Pros. They both seem like decent upgrades. Anyone with them and the MK2? Are they an upgrade?
> 
> I kind of want something analytical with a ton of detail, and if possible I want a change from the standard plastic shells, and replaceable cables would be nice as I might go bluetooth or short-cable.



I'm not familiar with those options. But I like the Svara L 32ohm. Seems more detailed and nuanced to me (including the bass).



mochill said:


> I know I'll like it,  also I found the kube1 to have a little bit of lower treble spike for me so I'll be burning it in more to see if it evens out.



Then you'll like the kube2


----------



## jibberish

Very pleased with the RW-9 right out of the box.  Feels pretty balanced but still fun, bit of a moderate w-shaped sig maybe? Male vocals in particular sound very present and accurate, without being too forward and there's no "shoutiness".  Looking forward to seeing if it improves with more time.

Also, the accessories included are great.  Plenty of full foams and donuts in various colors, and the storage pouch is very distinctive, it will be easy to spot when I want to grab these for a listen


----------



## Willber

Quick question: RW-9 or Kube 2 for biggest soundstage?


----------



## snip3r77

waynes world said:


> *I'll try to provide a more detailed answer later, but the SL1.0+ has more bass overall.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Awaiting your comparo. Thanks


----------



## subwoof3r

If anybody interested, I'm selling my *WIllsound MK2* ! 
You can check the thread for the sale *HERE*
Cheers'


----------



## seanc6441

If anyone knows


mochill said:


> I know I'll like it,  also I found the kube1 to have a little bit of lower treble spike for me so I'll be burning it in more to see if it evens out.


One of mine has that spike at 6khz and the other is slightly more mellow there.

Otherwise the FR is dare I say it, exceptionally balanced.


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> If anyone knows
> 
> One of mine has that spike at 6khz and the other is slightly more mellow there.
> 
> Otherwise the FR is dare I say it, exceptionally balanced.



There is a rumor that each color has a different signature.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> There is a rumor that each color has a different signature.


Probably driver inconsistency, it is a cheapish product in the end (despite is performance)


----------



## k271issue

Hello
I'm interested in buying my first pair of earbuds. Looking for something that is very easily driven out of anything. Needs to have mmcx jacks. Looking to spend anywhere between $30 - $150. I was hoping you guys could recommend me a few 'bang for buck' options i should look up. I noticed many of the mmcx earbuds have high impedances, like 320ohm or 600ohm. Should I bother looking at any of these at all? I know that ohms doesn't say anything about power sensitivity so it might be possible to drive these earbuds without amp, but I really don't know what I should be looking at.

Can anyone recommend me mmcx earbuds that I can use with wireless mmcx cables (like the fiio rc-bt or shure rmcebt2)? Thanks


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 4, 2019)

k271issue said:


> Hello
> I'm interested in buying my first pair of earbuds. Looking for something that is very easily driven out of anything. Needs to have mmcx jacks. Looking to spend anywhere between $30 - $150. I was hoping you guys could recommend me a few 'bang for buck' options i should look up. I noticed many of the mmcx earbuds have high impedances, like 320ohm or 600ohm. Should I bother looking at any of these at all? I know that ohms doesn't say anything about power sensitivity so it might be possible to drive these earbuds without amp, but I really don't know what I should be looking at.
> 
> Can anyone recommend me mmcx earbuds that I can use with wireless mmcx cables (like the fiio rc-bt or shure rmcebt2)? Thanks


Willsound mk2 mmcx version. 32ohm medium-high sensitivity. Works out of all sources. Neutral-ish detailed sound with slight bass boost. Around $32 + shipping.


----------



## k271issue (Feb 4, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> Willsound mk2 mmcx version. 32ohm medium-high sensitivity. Works out of all sources. Neutral-ish detailed sound with slight bass boost. Around $32 + shipping.



Does that have detachable cables? I really need something with detachable cables, I plan on primarily using these with the Shure RMCE BT2. MMCX is ideal, or I can use an mmcx-to-2pin converter. EDIT:nvm reread your comment, what is the "mmcx version" of the willsound mk2? Can't find it anywhere, can you send me a link?

Currently I'm looking at the Rose Maysa Pro, the Rose Maysa, the Toneking TY2, the OurArt ACG, the OurArt Ti7, the **** PT15 and the BGVP DX3.

Does anyone have any experience with any of these? Are any of them worthy of recommendation? If not, are there any other mmcx earbuds you'd recommend?


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 4, 2019)

k271issue said:


> Does that have detachable cables? I really need something with detachable cables, I plan on primarily using these with the Shure RMCE BT2. MMCX is ideal, or I can use an mmcx-to-2pin converter.
> 
> Currently I'm looking at the Rose Maysa Pro, the Rose Maysa, the Toneking TY2, the OurArt ACG, the OurArt Ti7, the **** PT15 and the BGVP DX3.
> 
> Does anyone have any experience with any of these? Are any of them worthy of recommendation? If not, are there any other mmcx earbuds you'd recommend?


The earbud comes stock with no cable I believe, just the mmcx buds. Although you can buy a cable off willsound too, or use your own mmcx cables.

I still rec the mk2 as a starter bud 9ver the others. It got a great all rounder type sound.


----------



## k271issue (Feb 4, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> The earbud comes stock with no cable I believe, just the mmcx buds. Although you can buy a cable off willsound too, or use your own mmcx cables.
> 
> I still rec the mk2 as a starter bud 9ver the others. It got a great all rounder type sound.




Seems cheap enough, i might as well pick one up then. Can you link me a store/vendor that has the mk2 mmcx buds in stock?

If I don't mind spending more, what are typically the most recommended earbuds at around the $150 mark? I'd rather spend some money on design/build/look/feel if there's anything nice out there that sounds good and is worth the money.


----------



## snip3r77

k271issue said:


> Seems cheap enough, i might as well pick one up then. Can you link me a store/vendor that has the mk2 mmcx buds in stock?
> 
> If I don't mind spending more, what are typically the most recommended earbuds at around the $150 mark? I'd rather spend some money on design/build/look/feel if there's anything nice out there that sounds good and is worth the money.


Rholopat


----------



## k271issue

snip3r77 said:


> Rholopat



Looked through that website, can't find an mmcx version


----------



## wskl

k271issue said:


> Looked through that website, can't find an mmcx version



You can contact Willsound via Facebook.


----------



## chinmie

k271issue said:


> Does that have detachable cables? I really need something with detachable cables, I plan on primarily using these with the Shure RMCE BT2. MMCX is ideal, or I can use an mmcx-to-2pin converter. EDIT:nvm reread your comment, what is the "mmcx version" of the willsound mk2? Can't find it anywhere, can you send me a link?
> 
> Currently I'm looking at the Rose Maysa Pro, the Rose Maysa, the Toneking TY2, the OurArt ACG, the OurArt Ti7, the **** PT15 and the BGVP DX3.
> 
> Does anyone have any experience with any of these? Are any of them worthy of recommendation? If not, are there any other mmcx earbuds you'd recommend?



just contact willy directly and ask for customized mmcx unit. here's my MK1 and MK3


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 4, 2019)

k271issue said:


> Seems cheap enough, i might as well pick one up then. Can you link me a store/vendor that has the mk2 mmcx buds in stock?
> 
> If I don't mind spending more, what are typically the most recommended earbuds at around the $150 mark? I'd rather spend some money on design/build/look/feel if there's anything nice out there that sounds good and is worth the money.


I recced the mk2 because it punches far above its price, earbuds are weird, price doesn't necessarily mean better quality.

Mk2 and masya are about the same SQ for instance, but the mk2 has the more all rounder ability because it has much more powerful bass.

You buy it direct from willsound through facebook, as the mmcx is a newer creation of his and its not listed on sites that sell his buds like roluphat.com.

Just go to the fb page 'willsound' and message him. You can choose shell colours i believe, ask for mmcx mk2 and get a price+shipping quote.

If you do buy a cable from him also get something other than the standard black one, it's a little tough and there's plenty of nice aftermarket mmcx cables to buy instead or you may have your own even.

As for design/feel. The mmcx mx500 buds are pretty nice, especially if you get a nice shell colour (dont go for white and maybe not black as those shells always seem a bit thinner than coloured glossy ones). The mmcx versions have a little more weight to them, a nice solid feel.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 4, 2019)

Just got the to600. Beautiful sound. Smooth and detailed. Full and rich.
Pretty good bass extension and moderate impact (better than to400 for sure) good treble air and extension.

Ty @HungryPanda (and others who posted about this earbud!) for the fantastic rec.

These sound very mature, I'm sure these would scale well with a good amp, but even from my v30 im liking the sound a lot.

I know I throw this phrase around a lot but I do mean it, these sound like a good reference open back headphone. Rich, clear, open wide staging, very refined tuning.


----------



## HungryPanda

Enjoy them Sean


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> Enjoy them Sean


Enjoying them with donut foams, which is usually too 'stuffy' sounding but not with these earbuds...

These were meant for music like this



Gorgeous vocals and timbre/tonality in the mids.


----------



## HungryPanda (Feb 4, 2019)

I do like Post Modern jukebox but I'm listen with my DIY 400 ohm graphene buds


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 4, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> I do like Post Modern jukebox but I'm listen with my DIY 400 ohm graphic buds


I originally stumbled across them on youtube, didn't realise how much albuns they released until I search on spotify.

I love Gorillaz and I love these covers 

If you're into string instrumental covers of great songs/albums check out Vitamin String Quartet.


----------



## Carrow

Got my package containing Docomo buds (white) and JVC Victor (red transparent)!

They both use J-cables and I will never not find them weird as heck to use D:


----------



## GREQ

Carrow said:


> Got my package containing Docomo buds (white) and JVC Victor (red transparent)!
> 
> They both use J-cables and I will never not find them weird as heck to use D:


What is a J-cable?


----------



## Carrow

GREQ said:


> What is a J-cable?



Short on left side, overly long on right side - the idea is you put the right side over the back of your neck.


----------



## GREQ

Carrow said:


> Short on left side, overly long on right side - the idea is you put the right side over the back of your neck.


Ah those! Thanks  
Didn't know they even had a name.


----------



## mbwilson111

GREQ said:


> Ah those! Thanks
> Didn't know they even had a name.



The other normal ones are called Y cables.


----------



## j4100

seanc6441 said:


> Just got the to600. Beautiful sound. Smooth and detailed. Full and rich.
> Pretty good bass extension and moderate impact (better than to400 for sure) good treble air and extension.
> 
> Ty @HungryPanda (and others who posted about this earbud!) for the fantastic rec.
> ...



Oh no! I feel some enabling going on. 

I have considering these for some time. Might wait for a sale though.


----------



## HungryPanda (Feb 4, 2019)

Well I just got my pair of Kubes in my ears and am smiling, listening to this


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 4, 2019)

Sadly my left t0600 driver has distortion in the bass :/

It's not even a rattle, it's like the driver is clipping/distorting  and I hear that trademark 'popping' when you push the bass to high volume. The right driver has no such issue.

I asked the seller if he/she could send me a replacement left driver, ill wait and see...


Meanwhile, this simple mod makes them sound phenomenal. Using black full foams supplied in the box I found the sub bass to be sufficient for a balanced response. But the mid bass could be a tad tighter and the highs could have been pushed 1-2db up for my ideal sound with these.

So I did this extremely simple mod





Tiny bit of double sided tape each side, tuning filter cotton on the only vent (you can use other matieral but this worked best for me).

The driver responds excellently to this mod, the sound is tighter, bass hits cleaner and the mids are both more detailed and slightly bumped in mid-midrange (a typical effect of more closed back cups). The to600 actually have a mild dip from 1500-2000 so this bump is welcomed if you want a slightly more present and vivid vocal range.

Just apply a regular full or donut foam over it and voila. You're done.

Edit:using regular donuts brings the vocals back a touch and keeps the extra detail. It's personal preference but I like both full and donuts on these. I'm leaning towards full foam though, it's a more coherant and full midrange.


----------



## seanc6441

j4100 said:


> Oh no! I feel some enabling going on.
> 
> I have considering these for some time. Might wait for a sale though.


i got them for $68 which is lower than the previous sale price.

I'm not saying you should get them, but you definitely shouldn't not get them.


----------



## Matarro

seanc6441 said:


> I recced the mk2 because it punches far above its price, earbuds are weird, price doesn't necessarily mean better quality.
> 
> Mk2 and masya are about the same SQ for instance, but the mk2 has the more all rounder ability because it has much more powerful bass.
> 
> ...



If Willsound's VJC cable is similar to the one that comes with Vunbuds then it is a very nice cable. If it's an option I would go with that. In fact, I've been thinking of ordering a pair of mmcx buds from Willsound with a 2.5mm VJC cable. If he can make it custom length I think I will have to get it. 

I have to decide which model to get though. From the descriptions I'm leaning towards MK1 since it's supposedly warmer. I want a bud with impressive (and fast) bass that still have good clarity, especially in the mids. Sparkle up top is always nice too but too bright signature means a lot of black metal becomes painful to listen to. I want a bud that works especially well with extreme metal but also prog and classic rock. Those who have MK1, does it have good clarity throughout? 

Or maybe MK2 anyway... Or MK150...


----------



## j4100

Yeah, the VJC cable is similar. Really soft and supple.


----------



## fairx

Today I found out I no longer can locate nor buy the t-music v2 or the inntakhifi v2 on aliexpress. 

I regret not buying backup. Although I really like my other buds the v2 is the best all rounder for my taste.

This week after doing some eq using APO on my laptop I realize v2 can be a monster earbud with mild (max 7db) V shape eq with 500hz as anchor. I can't stop listening for hours and never skip a song. It's so full, tight and complete.

If anobydy have any idea of v2 availability (on taobao for instance) please let me know. TQ


----------



## waynes world

Matarro said:


> If Willsound's VJC cable is similar to the one that comes with Vunbuds then it is a very nice cable. If it's an option I would go with that. In fact, I've been thinking of ordering a pair of mmcx buds from Willsound with a 2.5mm VJC cable. If he can make it custom length I think I will have to get it.
> 
> I have to decide which model to get though. From the descriptions I'm leaning towards MK1 since it's supposedly warmer. I want a bud with impressive (and fast) bass that still have good clarity, especially in the mids. Sparkle up top is always nice too but too bright signature means a lot of black metal becomes painful to listen to. I want a bud that works especially well with extreme metal but also prog and classic rock. Those who have MK1, does it have good clarity throughout?
> 
> Or maybe MK2 anyway... Or MK150...



Any chance you could provide a link to a good example of "extreme metal"?


----------



## Matarro

waynes world said:


> Any chance you could provide a link to a good example of "extreme metal"?



I've gotten into the habit of using "extreme metal" for most metal genres that are heavy and  not mainstream because all the genres and subgenres in metal have turned into such a mess. Sorry for being lazy but I mostly mean aggressive metal. So really anything from trash to grindcore to blackened death metal etc. 

As for examples of what I listen a lot to lately...



Spoiler



Vektor:




Meshuggah:



Wintersun (I can't get enough of this song, I always find something new in it):



Opeth (This has been my favorite album for over ten years! Btw, Steven Wilson does backup vocals on this song):



Devin Townsend:




 

You have a WS MK2 right? How do you like it?


----------



## CyberGhost

Anybody know what the difference is between TY Hi-Z HP150 and TY Hi-Z HP150*S MKII* ?


----------



## waynes world

subwoof3r said:


> How would you evaluate the difference of bass and subbass quantity/impact between both ?



Listened to these nifty tunes:





Both are great, but the Yincrow RW-9's bass takes the cake for me: more presence, more detailed, better textured. Also, the drums have more impact. I now cannot get Geddy Lee's bass lines out of my head thanks to you! 

For just pure sub-bass I listened to James Blake's Limit to your love, and I think the RW-9's subbass is better as well.

Having said that, the Snow Lotus 1.0+ Commemorative are excellent. But the RW-9's are actually pretty darned special.


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> But the RW-9's are actually pretty darned special.



I have to wait a long time to find out.


----------



## waynes world

Matarro said:


> I've gotten into the habit of using "extreme metal" for most metal genres that are heavy and  not mainstream because all the genres and subgenres in metal have turned into such a mess. Sorry for being lazy but I mostly mean aggressive metal. So really anything from trash to grindcore to blackened death metal etc.
> 
> As for examples of what I listen a lot to lately...
> 
> ...




Thanks. Lots of growling going on in those tunes lol!

The MK2's seem to handle those songs really well. To put it simply, the MK2's are awesome. I think you'd like them.


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> I have to wait a long time to find out.



That is a bummer! Did I tell you they have really nice cables as well? What color did you get? 

I'm going back and forth between the RW-9's and the MK2's right now. The RW-9's can't dethrone the MK2's based on technical merit, but damn they put up a good fight, and their "w" shaped signature (or whatever it is) is very appealing to me.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 4, 2019)

Yeah that's a good sub bass test track.

Also 'Why so serious?' From The Dark Knight OST

. Go to 3:27 and you'll either feel the bass pulsing and rumbling or it will be weak and subdued. That's how you know if your earbud has sub bass presence.

As for bass the mid bass, I like this track. 

It should sound very punchy and full but also quiet deep hitting. If your earbud delivers the fullness to the bass but doesnt hit hard or deep you'll know that it rolls off a little early in the deeper mid bass and sub bass or doesn't have much presence in the bass.

If it sounds a bit sloppy then your mid and upper bass bass is emphasised too much


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> That is a bummer! Did I tell you they have really nice cables as well? What color did you get?
> 
> I'm going back and forth between the RW-9's and the MK2's right now. The RW-9's can't dethrone the MK2's based on technical merit, but damn they put up a good fight, and their "w" shaped signature (or whatever it is) is very appealing to me.



I chose the blue.  

The red looked a bit too much like  my Willsound  MK1 rev2 which is all red.... wanted to keep them special like that.
I have many black buds... and white.

They will ship after the holiday on the 13th hopefully.  AK usually gets things here within two weeks... so end of February.  I do have a bud or two that I can use until then 

Still waiting for my orange Kube.  Getting a little concerned because it arrived in the country last Wednesday.


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> I chose the blue.



Me too. Looks nice.



> Still waiting for my orange Kube.  Getting a little concerned because it arrived in the country last Wednesday.



No worries - nobody is going to steal your orange buds! Hmm, they are rather unique though!


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Yeah that's a good sub bass test track.
> 
> Also 'Why so serious?' From The Dark Knight OST
> 
> . Go to 3:27 and you'll either feel the bass pulsing and rumbling or it will be weak and subdued. That's how you know if your earbud has sub bass presence.




That's a good one. Both the RW-9 and the MK2's passed that test nicely! (although I had to suck the driver flex out of both MK2 drivers lol)



> As for bass the mid bass, I like this track.
> 
> It should sound very punchy and full but also quiet deep hitting. If your earbud delivers the fullness to the bass but doesnt hit hard or deep you'll know that it rolls off a little early in the deeper mid bass and sub bass or doesn't have much presence in the bass.
> 
> If it sounds a bit sloppy then your mid and upper bass bass is emphasised too much




That's a fun/good tune as well. I'll have to listen to it closer. p.s. that Jack Black can sure play geetar!


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 4, 2019)

waynes world said:


> That's a good one. Both the RW-9 and the MK2's passed that test nicely! (although I had to suck the driver flex out of both MK2 drivers lol)
> 
> 
> 
> That's a fun/good tune as well. I'll have to listen to it closer. p.s. that Jack Black can sure play guitar!


It's quite a good album! Not their absolute best maybe but better than the previous one 'Humanz' overall. Some really amazing spacey-atmospheric tracks on there like 'Idaho' and 'fireflies'




If you wanna hear an epic Gorillaz song check out 'hillbilly man' or 'Empire Ants'.


----------



## stimuz

seanc6441 said:


> Yeah that's a good sub bass test track.
> 
> Also 'Why so serious?' From The Dark Knight OST
> 
> ...




sounds good on samsara. i've actually stopped using my iems and headphones cause these do the job and i forget i have them in my ears.


----------



## Zerohour88

CyberGhost said:


> Anybody know what the difference is between TY Hi-Z HP150 and TY Hi-Z HP150*S MKII* ?



other than supposedly sound quality (someone here had both and said MKII was better by a lot). The cable is different, IIRC. But since even the TY store on taobao wasn't clear on it, didn't bother to get it.


----------



## CheeseInTheSky

Got my JVC & Docomo today, they both sound good.
The Docomo are my new daily drivers, they are so comfortable and the sound is great.
JVC have a extremely short cable, might try and recable them.


----------



## Carrow

The white Docomo I've only tried out this morning but they have heaps of bass. JVC Victor have a better rounded sound that my LG V20 really likes, and brings the best out of imo. Can't believe these cost like €20 incl shipping, jfc.


----------



## Merkurio (Feb 5, 2019)

Wow, it seems that they're a lot of interesting earbuds around here, almost overwhelming!

What are the usual suspects recommended for a beginner in a budget? Or at least a ranking list/starting point.

I've experience with IEMs (IE800, iSINE20, Massdrop Plus) and several headphones (HD600, HD58X, K701, SRH1540, DT1990, LCD2C, etc.) and I find myself prefering a detailed sound with natural/harman tonality, well portrayed imaging and spacious feeling. A good bass extension is always a welcome addition, but not necessarily a deal breaker.


----------



## subwoof3r

Merkurio said:


> Wow, it seems that they're a lot of interesting earbuds around here, almost overwhelming!
> 
> What are the usual suspects recommended for a beginner in a budget? Or at least a ranking list/starting point.
> 
> I've experience with IEMs (IE800, iSINE20, Massdrop Plus) and several headphones (HD600, HD58X, K701, SRH1540, DT1990, LCD2C, etc.) and I find myself prefering a detailed sound with natural/harman tonality, well portrayed imaging and spacious feeling. A good bass extension is always a welcome addition, but not necessarily a deal breaker.


To me, Snow Lotus 1.0+ is probably my best budget but only if bass is not a deal breaker (even if they are present, just lacking some punch and especially subbass to me). Great allrounder overall with good soundstage (very deep), very detailed and natural/transparent. Not sure it's still available yet on aliexpress but next batch should be for this month (if everything goes well)


----------



## MisterMudd

Have had the Snow-Lotus 1.0+ for two months now, and man this bud does so much right. Except, the mids sound just a little recessed compared to other budget buds I have tried. Smooth and detailed across the range in general, just want vocals a little more forward. Listening to Bryan Adam’s Reckless (for the 1,000+ time) he’s standing back a bit. I am not much on EQ simply out of laziness but will try now. The sound stage is big and fat – like an over-ear can. Love ‘em!


----------



## Ira Delphic (Feb 5, 2019)

My SL 1+ Commemorative Edition arrived unexpectedly yesterday. I haven't A-B'd - listening to a variety of music. I'm impressed! I'm amazed by how good they sound. Like a Vido or Yincrow X6 with superior bass and sub-bass and resolution. My wife likes IEMs not earbuds. She was blown away. I may be irrationally exuberant, but at least for bass and sub bass, these are the best of my sub $20 earbuds. I use LG V30 as source.

The Yincrow RW-9 are ordered, but due to the Chinese New year, I hope they arrive before March.

Listened to this on Spotify highest resolution. Here it is on Youtube -


----------



## Ira Delphic

The SL 1+ Commemorative Edition really shine, as others have said, like wearing full sized cans.
There are bird-like shimmery sounds slightly hidden in the original mix of the song. This song is a brutal test for earbuds! 

From Talking Heads - Fear of Music (2005 Remastered)


----------



## seanc6441

Merkurio said:


> Wow, it seems that they're a lot of interesting earbuds around here, almost overwhelming!
> 
> What are the usual suspects recommended for a beginner in a budget? Or at least a ranking list/starting point.
> 
> I've experience with IEMs (IE800, iSINE20, Massdrop Plus) and several headphones (HD600, HD58X, K701, SRH1540, DT1990, LCD2C, etc.) and I find myself prefering a detailed sound with natural/harman tonality, well portrayed imaging and spacious feeling. A good bass extension is always a welcome addition, but not necessarily a deal breaker.


Mk2 mmcx


----------



## waynes world

Ira Delphic said:


> The SL 1+ Commemorative Edition really shine, as others have said, like wearing full sized cans.
> There are bird-like shimmery sounds slightly hidden in the original mix of the song. This song is a brutal test for earbuds!
> 
> From Talking Heads - Fear of Music (2005 Remastered)




Thanks for posting that song. Great album for some great earbuds!


----------



## Marcos Fontana (Feb 5, 2019)

Hello guys,

I'm back of my vacation. I don't know that you remember that I had a problem with my Ty HI-Z-650 ($100) earphone. I sent it to Penon. I'm waiting until now without any response from Penon. I told you that I will never spend money in expensive earbuds anymore. I bought the ZoomFred one day before the failure of the Ty HI-Z-650. Today I received the ZoomFred. Amazing earbud. Really amazing! After 2 hours of use, I heard a noise coming from the left channel...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ibq0d2os957tzmg/Voice_004.m4a?dl=0 (the noise in the right channel came from the left channel)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/px15qh9ndx1an18/Voice_005.m4a?dl=0

No response from Herry until now... I heard the same noise in the 650 and after few days the driver died.

Money lost until now:

Ty HI-Z 650 ($100)
Money to return Ty HI-Z 650 to Penon ($35)
ZoomFred ($373)
ZoomFred import duty ($140)

Total loss: $648

Omg...

Again, I will never spend more that $50 in a earbud...


----------



## sareer007

Which bud is an upgrade from SL 1.0+ ?


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 5, 2019)

Marcos Fontana said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I'm back of my vacation. I don't know that you remember that I had a problem with my Ty HI-Z-650 ($100) earphone. I sent it to Penon. I'm waiting until now without any response from Penon. I told you that I will never spend money in expensive earbuds anymore. I bought the ZoomFred one day before the failure of the Ty HI-Z-650. Today I received the ZoomFred. Amazing earbud. Really amazing! After 2 hours of use, I heard a noise coming from the left channel...
> 
> ...


Did you send that video to herry? How long did you give him to respond?

Also, did penon inform you they shipped the package back? And give you tracking?

Honestly dude, i wouldnt give up just yet, reach out to penon and herry on facebook messanger, emails can be missed easily. Make sure they understand the situation and if they refuse to do anything about it keep us updated here and on facebook earbuds anonymous group (were penon post quiet regularly amoung other earbud makers.)

I really hope that there's just a delay on your 650 and that herry just hasn't seen or had the time to respond to your email yet.

But if the situation is that they just dont want to refund you, make sure everyone knows about it because quiet frankly it's unacceptable business manners.

I cannot say I've lost as much as you but ill give you an honest run down of issues ive had with earbuds that were not my fault:

Rose Mojito: left driver shell literally broke in two one day. Cheap QC on the plastic. Had to glue it back and got lucky it worked perfectly still. The 2 pin connector start to crumble after time and if you disconnect the cable too much.

Rose Masya: Same as mojito with the connectors, piece of plastic begin to fall off, the connector can become loose.

Penon bs1 official: driver rattle, had to send it to them for repair.

Ks black ling:  driver rattle, had to send it back for repair. 

About 30-35% of my budget earbuds developed some kind of issue whether it was a rattle that was self fixable or others that eventually died.

The quality control is quite bad many earbuds irrespective of price range. It's far behind headphones and IEMs in that regard because most companies seem to be using cheap parts, or cutting costs in the manufacturing process.

I've pretty much stopped buying TOTL buds for this reason primarily. I can accept the situation in the budget range, and sometimes for buds around 50-100$.

But im honestly worried about purchsses over $100 anymore. That's the honest truth that not many people seem to mention. Surely we cannot be the only ones experiencing this issue?


----------



## CyberGhost

Zerohour88 said:


> other than supposedly sound quality (someone here had both and said MKII was better by a lot). The cable is different, IIRC. But since even the TY store on taobao wasn't clear on it, didn't bother to get it.



Thank you! Yea, there does not seem to much info on these. I'll probably go with MKIIs based on your reply though.


----------



## CyberGhost

Received Fengru EMX500, I am not very impressed to be frank. They are about on the level of Monk+, worse than the original Monk, which is noticeably clearer sounding.


----------



## wskl

Marcos Fontana said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I'm back of my vacation. I don't know that you remember that I had a problem with my Ty HI-Z-650 ($100) earphone. I sent it to Penon. I'm waiting until now without any response from Penon. I told you that I will never spend money in expensive earbuds anymore. I bought the ZoomFred one day before the failure of the Ty HI-Z-650. Today I received the ZoomFred. Amazing earbud. Really amazing! After 2 hours of use, I heard a noise coming from the left channel...
> 
> ...



Don't give up on Penon just yet, they are closed from Jan 30 to Feb 10 for the Chinese Lunar New Year.


----------



## stimuz

seanc6441 said:


> About 30-35% of my budget earbuds developed some kind of issue whether it was a rattle that was self fixable or others that eventually died.
> 
> The quality control is quite bad many earbuds irrespective of price range. It's far behind headphones and IEMs in that regard because most companies seem to be using cheap parts, or cutting costs in the manufacturing process.
> 
> ...



Over what period of time did these problems develop? I probably won't buy any new IEMs/headphones/earbuds until some sort of advancement happens. I generally just stay in a hobby until I'm satisfied with the result then move to the next. I've learned my lesson from keyboards what happens when you stay in a hobby beyond what your actual endgame is.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 5, 2019)

stimuz said:


> Over what period of time did these problems develop? I probably won't buy any new IEMs/headphones/earbuds until some sort of advancement happens. I generally just stay in a hobby until I'm satisfied with the result then move to the next. I've learned my lesson from keyboards what happens when you stay in a hobby beyond what your actual endgame is.


Some out of box, some a month later.

The mojito was second hand so there's that to consider, but if you browse the rose tech thread im not the only one to experience the earbud literally breaking as the plastic weakens over time...

I know you cannot be sure that I don't mistreat my earbuds somehow, but I think there's enough cases of defective earbuds to know whats up.

Bottom line seems to be, there's really no assurances that your earbud will last over a year... Only the vintage premium stuff and a select few new products are built to good standards.


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Feb 5, 2019)

I haven't bought any buds over $100 since the samsara's for exactly that reason, I mean the cable and pugs are nice but the buds feel too cheap and unstuck once already ( all good but a bit scary) since then I decided nothing over a $100, although I have seen people buy beats  and Yamaha headphones for a few hundred and break them within  a couple months


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 5, 2019)

Themilkman46290 said:


> I haven't bought any buds over $100 since the samsara's for exactly that reason, I mean the cable and pugs are nice but the buds feel too cheap and unstuck once already ( all good but a bit scary) since then I decided nothing o era a $100, although I have seen people buy beats  and Yamaha headphones for a few hundred and break them within  a couple months


People being careless is one thing, but if you care for the product (as most sensible people would if its expensive.) It's really not acceptable to price them so high and not offer any solid warranty.

I refuse to recommend high end earbuds to people now (who are new to earbuds) on that basis, i will always tell them the risks if they want to proceed.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 5, 2019)

Also im pretty sure earbud sellers are well aware of the QC issues and that's why they shy away from warranties and assurances.

It's all a little bit iffy if you ask me. Definitely one of the biggest downsides of the earbuds hobby.

Seller wont change unless we as buyers become more dilligent. Start asking them whats the warranty before purchasing, dont just throw money at them and hope for the best.


----------



## Themilkman46290

seanc6441 said:


> People being careless is one thing, but if you care for the product (as most sensible people would if its expensive.) It's really not acceptable to price them so high and not offer any solid warranty.
> 
> I refuse to recommend high end earbuds to people now (who are new to earbuds) on that basis, i will always tell them the risks if they want to proceed.


Yeah, the only other buds I had that happen with is my nicehck eb200, I am a very careful person, since i quit drinking, haven't cracked a screen, dropped a glass or had a pair of earphones or headphones break in 5 years, kind of odd because I wasn't really drunk when stuff like that happened, but it seems linked together somehow


----------



## HungryPanda

I made a couple of buds today and I managed to ruin two different drivers, easy to do, although I think one of them was no good when I got them


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Guys,

This is the Herry response:

Looking on what you describe it is quite common on earbuds, because of the prezuried membrane during the shipment
here is how you fixed it. When playing a music, You can suck the front cover of the earbuds using your mouth. Keep repeating until the membrane flex to the normal position and you hear no rattle noise on the low freq

I did as he said and... It worked!!!!! Everything is working. This is a nice tip for anyone with a problem like I had. I will keep an eye in Penon and I will keep everybody informed.

Thank you guys!


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> I made a couple of buds today and I managed to ruin two different drivers, easy to do, although I think one of them was no good when I got them


Yeah can't say I haven't done that! But we push on in the name of DIY! lol


----------



## Themilkman46290

Well yeah, your right, but the alternative


Marcos Fontana said:


> Guys,
> 
> This is the Herry response:
> 
> ...


I have had to do it for 3 of my wife's buds(don't understand how she does it)


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 5, 2019)

Marcos Fontana said:


> Guys,
> 
> This is the Herry response:
> 
> ...


That doesn't always work but im glad it worked in this case. It really depends on the source of the rattle. In your case it was just a membrane flexed the wrong way, other times the driver is flawed.

My advice for you is to turn on a bass heavy play list, turn the volume to loud listening level (NOT blasting loud but as loud as you would ever want to listen) and let it play for about 6-12 hours.

If your driver is still good after that then hurray, its a good driver. If you hear rattling again you will know that there's an inherent issue with your unit.

Just my 2 cents!

Now you just need to wait for penon to reply hope that works out too!


----------



## ValSilva

Marcos Fontana said:


> . I'm waiting until now without any response from Penon


Hi Marcos, I think they'll return from Chinese New Year Holliday on February 11th. I hope you got an answer soon.


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> Rose Mojito: left driver shell literally broke in two one day. Cheap QC on the plastic. Had to glue it back and got lucky it worked perfectly still. The 2 pin connector start to crumble after time and if you disconnect the cable too much.
> 
> Rose Masya: Same as mojito with the connectors, piece of plastic begin to fall off, the connector can become loose.
> 
> ...



I've had my fair share of problems with higher tier earbuds.

I've personally replaced the ZOE 3 times due to manufacturing defects. The Omega Editions seem very DIY in quality, not just with driver failure, but also in terms of finishing where scratches and dents are quite prevalent on the metal badges and plastic body. I've gone through enough of them to know and even the current ZOE and AOE I have on me now is nowhere near perfect. In fact, their standard variant of earbuds are those that I have not had problems with, e.g. regular Monk Plus, Asura 2.0s, Zen 2.0, etc.

And not forgetting the Lyra Collection that was replaced twice and eventually changed to a SWD2+ by the seller. Perhaps I'm just unlucky, but I have a new pair of Moondrop Liebesleid that's incoming and I can only hope for the best.


----------



## seanc6441

palestofwhite said:


> I've had my fair share of problems with higher tier earbuds.
> 
> I've personally replaced the ZOE 3 times due to manufacturing defects. The Omega Editions seem very DIY in quality, not just with driver failure, but also in terms of finishing where scratches and dents are quite prevalent on the metal badges and plastic body. I've gone through enough of them to know and even the current ZOE and AOE I have on me now is nowhere near perfect. In fact, their standard variant of earbuds are those that I have not had problems with, e.g. regular Monk Plus, Asura 2.0s, Zen 2.0, etc.
> 
> And not forgetting the Lyra Collection that was replaced twice and eventually changed to a SWD2+ by the seller. Perhaps I'm just unlucky, but I have a new pair of Moondrop Liebesleid that's incoming and I can only hope for the best.


We cannot all just be 'unlucky'. It's a pattern of QC issues. And I agree that some earbuds (the monk plus for instance) are built to higher standards than many others including many TOTL earbuds.


----------



## 40760 (Feb 5, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> We cannot all just be 'unlucky'. It's a pattern of QC issues. And I agree that some earbuds (the monk plus for instance) are built to higher standards than many others including many TOTL earbuds.



I'm equally puzzled and felt bad for the waste of time and effort to keep shipping things back and forth. It's as if I've some sort of integrity issue or a nuisance of a bad customer.
For one, the replacement policies from both sellers have worked out fine for me, but I really feel more can be done for QC in the first place to circumvent that.

It's worrying to have to go through a lottery for TOTL while the basic and cheaper earbuds almost always arrives perfect. For now I'll be avoiding expensive earbuds that are more of a "DIY" nature, unless the company is reputed for good craftsmanship and warranty coverage.


----------



## snip3r77

seems like SL 1+ plus CE is leading the pack in 2019.


----------



## chinmie

Marcos Fontana said:


> Guys,
> 
> This is the Herry response:
> 
> ...



you can also use this method to speed up "burn in" process, although it will look mighty weird you going sucking and blowing that earbuds repeatedly 



palestofwhite said:


> Perhaps I'm just unlucky, but I have a new pair of Moondrop Liebesleid that's incoming and I can only hope for the best.



i tried and compared my unit to at least four other (balanced and SE versions), all of them sounded similar and haven't heard anyone mention any trouble with them, so I'm hoping your unit will also be no problem. the only times I've heard moondrop products that would mysteriously dies on one side is the old batch Crescent iem. even that is fixed ad far as i know as they released a new batch/version already


----------



## 40760

chinmie said:


> I tried and compared my unit to at least four other (balanced and SE versions), all of them sounded similar and haven't heard anyone mention any trouble with them, so I'm hoping your unit will also be no problem. the only times I've heard moondrop products that would mysteriously dies on one side is the old batch Crescent iem. even that is fixed ad far as i know as they released a new batch/version already



That sounds really promising. I purchased the Liebesleid from the Indonesian seller that sells the Kubes, and he's really helpful. They were shipped out earlier today.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 5, 2019)

More listening time and a bit of tuning with the TO600.

These are really really good drivers. I felt the tuning wasn't quiet perfect in stock in terms of how much dampening is on the only vent (these are 90% closed back with one vent). Because there's only one vent its extremely sensitive to dampening changes and you can pretty much decide if you want warm or bright or neutral with these.

In stock they are a little bloated/too warm in the low mids and the bass could hit deeper (the driver is capable in the bass but the design/dampening was pushing it more towards full warm mid bass than night flat bass response.

Dampening with a very pourous sponge piece and applying VE full foams (the red/blue ones that are fairly thin but medium density and transparent sounding). This tightens up the bass and gives just enough depth. Mids are extremely clean now and touching on dead neutral. Treble to some will be considered slightly bright around 5khz but neutral and detailed for the most part.

Imaging takes a nice boost, soundstage loses some slight airy quality, because you are closing the shell slightly more but gains better sense of separation because of the better imaging and more neutral response. The trade is definitely worth it in my opinion.

I think i hear a little bit of cup reflection which is something I might try to remove by opening the shell and dampening the inner chamber with very thin felt/foam or dynamat.


----------



## ballog

Themilkman46290 said:


> Well yeah, your right, but the alternative
> 
> I have had to do it for 3 of my wife's buds(don't understand how she does it)


@Themilkman46290  Is that why your alias is 'The Milk Man' ? Also do you mean 2 intead of 3?


----------



## seanc6441

ballog said:


> @Themilkman46290  Is that why your alias is 'The Milk Man' ? Also do you mean 2 intead of 3?


Maybe he actually meant to say Wives, not wife's ^^


----------



## ballog

seanc6441 said:


> Maybe he actually meant to say Wives, not wife's ^^


@seanc6441 you must be right - that's a total of 6 buds and ...a lot of milk . I hope there's no offense taken - these jokes were not meant as a disrespect to anyone. Its just a light-hearted interlude to the serious matter of bad QC and unreliability in earbuds .


----------



## subwoof3r

seanc6441 said:


> Start asking them whats the warranty before purchasing


Not sure it's really useful to do so, as most sellers are ready to sell you the real warranty "dream" just to make the buy button clicking faster, unfortunately.. ^^
They know that anyway they are "untouchable" once item has been sold, as nobody will make them any lowsuit.


----------



## SunshineSketch

Can someone who owns or has tried both tell me what is better between Snow Lotus 1.0 and 1.0+ versions? Plus version seems harder to track down and has a standard cable unlike the regular 1.0


----------



## Ira Delphic

SunshineSketch said:


> Can someone who owns or has tried both tell me what is better between Snow Lotus 1.0 and 1.0+ versions? Plus version seems harder to track down and has a standard cable unlike the regular 1.0



Already discussed earlier in this thread. And the SL 1.0+ CE is still available.


----------



## mbwilson111

SunshineSketch said:


> Can someone who owns or has tried both tell me what is better between Snow Lotus 1.0 and 1.0+ versions? Plus version seems harder to track down and has a standard cable unlike the regular 1.0



Both are good.  It is difficult to know which you would prefer.


----------



## SunshineSketch

Based on what I found earlier in the thread 1.0+ seems to be the better option in terms of sound for me. So I guess I'm looking between those and EMX500S.


----------



## Willber

Ira Delphic said:


> Already discussed earlier in this thread.


That seems a bit abrupt. You asked a similar question not long ago. At least an indication (or link) to what you found out would be helpful to a newcomer to the subject.


----------



## mbwilson111

SunshineSketch said:


> Based on what I found earlier in the thread 1.0+ seems to be the better option in terms of sound for me. So I guess I'm looking between those and EMX500S.



Get the Snow Lotus.  The Commemorative Edition might not be around forever.


----------



## SunshineSketch

mbwilson111 said:


> Get the Snow Lotus.  The Commemorative Edition might not be around forever.



Yeah I'll pick it up since it has low stock. I can always get the 500S later I guess


----------



## mbwilson111

SunshineSketch said:


> Yeah I'll pick it up since it has low stock. I can always get the 500S later I guess



...and you probably will


----------



## Willber (Feb 6, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Get the Snow Lotus.  The Commemorative Edition might not be around forever.


I agree with that. And I prefer the sound to the EMX500S.

But taking most of my time at the moment are these:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...With-Mic-For-Phone-PC-Tablet/32828298514.html

They are up there with both SLs - great soundstage and detail throughout the FR with excellent build quality. Better than the EB2 in my opinion at a fraction of the cost. I would say that they are my best bang-for-buck earphones. I think I read a review by someone called Angry Panda (something like that!) from a while ago. I'll try to elaborate when I have more time.


----------



## Ira Delphic (Feb 6, 2019)

SunshineSketch said:


> Based on what I found earlier in the thread 1.0+ seems to be the better option in terms of sound for me. So I guess I'm looking between those and EMX500S.



There's also the Yincrow RW-9. I haven't heard it, but have it on order from  here. Also described as big, u shaped sound. Looking forward to comparing the SL 1.0+ CE to the Yincrow RW-9 when my Yincrow arrives next month.


----------



## SunshineSketch (Feb 6, 2019)

Willber said:


> I agree with that. And I prefer the sound to the EMX500S.
> 
> But taking most of my time at the moment are these:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...With-Mic-For-Phone-PC-Tablet/32828298514.html
> ...



The shape of those remind me of a pair of buds I had long along that they no longer make. I'll have to give those a shot as well. Buds being $5-10 makes it a lot easier to just try things



Ira Delphic said:


> There's also the Yincrow RW-9. I haven't heard it, but have it on order from  here. Also described as big, u shaped sound. Looking forward to comparing the SL 1.0+ CE to the Yincrow RW-9 when my Yincrow arrives next month.



Oh those look quite nice too


----------



## Willber

SunshineSketch said:


> The shape of those remind me of a pair of buds I had long along that they no longer make. I'll have to give those a shot as well. *Buds being $5-10 makes it a lot easier to just try things*


Absolutely. And none of my most expensive phones ($100 - $150 - $200) make it into my top 5 list. In fact most of them are around $10 or less.


----------



## Willber (Feb 6, 2019)

Oh, and my Kube v1 turned up. Sounding good...


----------



## waynes world (Feb 6, 2019)

Ira Delphic said:


> There's also the Yincrow RW-9. I haven't heard it, but have it on order from  here. Also described as big, u shaped sound. Looking forward to comparing the SL 1.0+ CE to the Yincrow RW-9 when my Yincrow arrives next month.





SunshineSketch said:


> Oh those look quite nice too



The RW-9's sound fantastic. A bit more presence in the mids which sounds really nice (along with great bass and highs). Very engaging. For $15US. Sheesh.


----------



## Willber

Willber said:


> Absolutely. And none of my most expensive phones ($100 - $150 - $200) make it into my top 5 list. In fact most of them are around $10 or less.


Just to clarify my preferences. I use EQ so signature is not that important to me - I just change it to what I like which is mid-centric. Soundstage and separation/imaging are my priorities when buying earphones and they are the major basis for my opinions. As has been said many times, this hobby is very subjective.


----------



## SunshineSketch

Willber said:


> Just to clarify my preferences. I use EQ so signature is not that important to me - I just change it to what I like which is mid-centric. Soundstage and separation/imaging are my priorities when buying earphones and they are the major basis for my opinions. As has been said many times, this hobby is very subjective.


I see, I don't EQ anything ever. I feel if you do that the headphones lose their unique signature and there's no point in having several different types


----------



## Willber

SunshineSketch said:


> I see, I don't EQ anything ever. I feel if you do that the headphones lose their unique signature and there's no point in having several different types


I see what you mean, and most people might agree with you, but I would rather have lots of earphones that I like listening to than not many! And there are still subtle differences that keep things interesting. Each to their own.


----------



## Daegalus (Feb 6, 2019)

Having trouble keeping up with all the Earbuds. I am trying to find one as I am having pressure problems in my ear-canals, so IEMs are becoming a problem, and over-ear headphones are getting hot and heavy. So I am looking into Earbuds, as I didn't realize they had gotten so much better.

What is currently the best I can get on Amazon with prime shipping? I want a pair sooner rather than later while I wait for the RW-9, X6, and Massdrop VE Monks to arrive.

RIght now I can find only the SL 1.0 (not + CE) as a prime shipment. Anything else I should look at?


----------



## chinmie

SunshineSketch said:


> I see, I don't EQ anything ever. I feel if you do that the headphones lose their unique signature and there's no point in having several different types





Willber said:


> Just to clarify my preferences. I use EQ so signature is not that important to me - I just change it to what I like which is mid-centric. Soundstage and separation/imaging are my priorities when buying earphones and they are the major basis for my opinions. As has been said many times, this hobby is very subjective.



yup, earphones/headphones will have their own unique characteristics in their sound. even if we can similarly match the EQ response, we will not be able to match their driver attack speed, soundstage depth and width, etc.  that's why to some of us owning multiple forms, driver combinations, etc is necessary, and because it's exciting (not to mention addictive)


----------



## waynes world

Daegalus said:


> Having trouble keeping up with all the Earbuds. I am trying to find one as I am having pressure problems in my ear-canals, so IEMs are becoming a problem, and over-ear headphones are getting hot and heavy. So I am looking into Earbuds, as I didn't realize they had gotten so much better.



I had the same issue with iems (also sparking up tinnitus), and earbuds have been a blessing.

So you might ask why I just ordered these bass cannon iems?:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/I-I...s-Ear-Bud-In-Ear-Stereo-Rock/32845289619.html


Spoiler: Pic..












I don't know, but it has something with making a mistake and heading back into the Discovery Thread lol. Anyway, we'll see how that goes! 

Back on topic...



> What is currently the best I can get on Amazon with prime shipping? I want a pair sooner rather than later while I wait for the RW-9, X6, and Massdrop VE Monks to arrive.
> 
> RIght now I can find only the SL 1.0 (not + CE) as a prime shipment. Anything else I should look at?



Sorry, I can't help you there. Hopefully someone else can. Good luck!


----------



## seanc6441

subwoof3r said:


> Not sure it's really useful to do so, as most sellers are ready to sell you the real warranty "dream" just to make the buy button clicking faster, unfortunately.. ^^
> They know that anyway they are "untouchable" once item has been sold, as nobody will make them any lowsuit.


It's important because they either say no warranty and you don't buy, or they say there is a warranty of x amount of time and that puts them in the position of LYING to customers. Which will severely hurt their business if word gets around such practices are happening.


----------



## iJay

Just pulled the trigger on SL 1.0 transparent. Should have them next week. 
My only earbud currently is Monk plus so I'm interested in listening to this guy.
I have a Cowon Plenue D which has great EQ, and I tend to tweak slightly depending on my mood and music selection. I have a live sound background so I can't 'not' tweak speakers!
I'll report back once I've had some time with them.


----------



## 40760

Couldn't resist...

K's Samsara and Liebeslied incoming...


----------



## Matarro (Feb 7, 2019)

I talked with Willy (WillSound) on facebook and it was no problem getting a short length cable from him. I just ordered mmcx version of MK1 and MK2 with a 50cm balanced VJC cable. Now to be patient and hope the post office doesn't dick around for two months before delivering like last time.

Willy seems like a good guy btw. He's still active on this forum sometimes?

Btw, I'm so satisfied with my Vunbuds that I thought I wasn't going to order any more buds for a while but see what happens when you enter this thread?


----------



## CheeseInTheSky

Ok, so i got the JVC and the Docomo's
The JVC have a crappy cable i need to recable it, but the sound is decent although i havent tested it fully yet but it doesnt seem to be anything special imo.
The Docomo however sound pretty awesome, i also love the fit on these buds *they are smaller than the usual* and they are currently my daily drivers.
The sound seems to be balanced and very detailed, the bass is decent but nothing to crazy like the Vido's although the Vido sound very muddy compared to these.

It's clear the Sabia V6 and the Docomo's are on top right now for me.


----------



## 40760

Matarro said:


> I thought I wasn't going to order any more buds for a while but see what happens when you enter this thread?



Tell me about it... 
My Liebesleid is coming from Indonesia as well and they're know to take a while even for a neighbouring country.


----------



## viatraco

@golov17 , @mbwilson111  You have Zen Lite (not LL)... Is it worth 80$ for new ones ? On VE website was even for 148$, but unavailable now.

Are they step up over Asura 2.0s ? Are they significally worse than full Zen 2.0 ? Especially in terms of soundstage and "pretending" full open cans  

Thank you in advance for your impressions.


----------



## chinmie

palestofwhite said:


> Tell me about it...
> My Liebesleid is coming from Indonesia as well and they're know to take a while even for a neighbouring country.



last time i purchase an audio gear from carousell Singapore, i rather fly there and meet the person for COD. waiting for shipment is unbearable, had to have it immediately


----------



## subwoof3r

Been listening to my *Blox YIN* yesterday night and enjoyed it a lot again  still in my top earbuds
There is something magical on these


----------



## lyrean (Feb 7, 2019)

SunshineSketch said:


> Can someone who owns or has tried both tell me what is better between Snow Lotus 1.0 and 1.0+ versions? Plus version seems harder to track down and has a standard cable unlike the regular 1.0



From what I have heard, SL 1.0+ is slightly more V or U -shaped than regular 1.0 and soundstage on 1.0+ is bigger than on regular 1.0.

I only have regular 1.0 but I'm liking it.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have been listening to the K's K64 today and it has been a while, still sound marvellous


----------



## j4100

HungryPanda said:


> I have been listening to the K's K64 today and it has been a while, still sound marvellous



Coincidence!

My K's 64s are my work buds and currently enjoying my Bandcamp collection with them on my Samsung S8.


----------



## Ira Delphic

j4100 said:


> Coincidence!
> 
> My K's 64s are my work buds and currently enjoying my Bandcamp collection with them on my Samsung S8.



Two years ago I got  the silver cable version of the K's 64. The cable is freakishling long - and the sound muddy and bland compared to my other earbuds. Maybe  I got a bad copy?


----------



## Willber

lyrean said:


> From what I have heard, SL 1.0+ is slightly more V or U -shaped than regular 1.0 and soundstage on 1.0+ is bigger than on regular 1.0.


I agree with your first point but not your second. 
Happy to hear you like the 1.0, though. It's still one of my favourites.


----------



## lyrean

Willber said:


> I agree with your first point but not your second.
> Happy to hear you like the 1.0, though. It's still one of my favourites.



You are better at comparing them as you have both, I only have the other one.

I find regular 1.0 a sweet spot for me: it is not too bright, vocals are not recessed, bass is not boomy but it is there when needed. There could be little more sub bass but usually then sound signature gets more U-shaped.


----------



## Willber

lyrean said:


> You are better at comparing them as you have both, I only have the other one.
> 
> I find regular 1.0 a sweet spot for me: it is not too bright, vocals are not recessed, bass is not boomy but it is there when needed. There could be little more sub bass but usually then sound signature gets more U-shaped.


Yes, I find it very well balanced and natural sounding. 'Sweet spot' is a good way of putting it. With some phones I find myself analysing the details (good and bad). With these I just get lost in the music.


----------



## acroyear

Hello everyone.  I spent years and a small fortune searching for the perfect IEM, only to end up with an earbud that I love more than any IEM I've ever heard!  Now the new search begins I suppose.  My earbud journey originally ended in the early 90's, so I was completely shocked when I heard the Moondrop VX Pro for the first time.  All I really want so far to improve on is bass quantity, if even only slightly.  My question for anyone who can answer is, how does the K's White Ling or the HiFi Boy Dream compare to the VX Pro?  I'm looking for a mostly balanced, but airy sound with good bass and sub bass. Full disclosure, I've already made a blind purchase of both.  Just would love any opinions while waiting a couple weeks for them to arrive.


----------



## golov17

viatraco said:


> @golov17 , @mbwilson111  You have Zen Lite (not LL)... Is it worth 80$ for new ones ? On VE website was even for 148$, but unavailable now.
> 
> Are they step up over Asura 2.0s ? Are they significally worse than full Zen 2.0 ? Especially in terms of soundstage and "pretending" full open cans
> 
> Thank you in advance for your impressions.


For me Zen2.0 much better than Zen L.
And Zen LL better than Zen L.
Asuras have other sigs


----------



## Matarro

Willy was nice enough to send a preview:







The red one is WillSound MK1 and the white is MK2. I'm really stoked to get these!


----------



## Danneq

Marcos Fontana said:


> Guys,
> 
> This is the Herry response:
> 
> ...



Yeah, he knows his stuff.

He also warned me about putting the grills of the ZoomFred against eachother, since the magnets are stronger than what he normally use. If the magnets are exposed to too strong magnetic attraction, they might become displaced (as far as I understand it).

Looking forward to reading more of your impressions on your ZoomFred Pro.


----------



## Carrow

JVC Victor cable is awful. Docomo buds have the same kind of cable but it's significantly longer so much easier to deal with. Getting the JVC Victors sent off for recabling tomorrow!


----------



## Danneq

I feel left out. All these new cool budget earbuds that I can't buy since I don't want to pay import taxes and customs fees at around $7-8 for a pair of earbuds that cost roghly the same...

Lately I've been rocking the ol' Tomahawk earbuds with some crunchy metal from my Questyle QP1R.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 7, 2019)

viatraco said:


> @golov17 , @mbwilson111  You have Zen Lite (not LL)... Is it worth 80$ for new ones ? On VE website was even for 148$, but unavailable now.
> 
> Are they step up over Asura 2.0s ? Are they significally worse than full Zen 2.0 ? Especially in terms of soundstage and "pretending" full open cans
> 
> Thank you in advance for your impressions.



I have the Zen LL and love it.  It is one of only a few buds that I have with a balanced cable.  I had the Zen Lite (bought used).  Traded with my husband for the LL...because he has more serious amps.

I don't have nor have I heard any of the others. I personally will not spend that much for any bud.  Too fragile plus I am having too much fun with inexpensive ones like the Kube, the Faaeals, and others...especially the ones my husband @HungryPanda has been making.

I think he had made ten for me so far.  . He has also recabled several others.


----------



## viatraco

golov17 said:


> For me Zen2.0 much better than Zen L.
> And Zen LL better than Zen L.
> Asuras have other sigs



Ouch...it is not good for me. I thought that Zen Lite is better than LL, which was added for free to more expensive stuff...


----------



## mbwilson111

viatraco said:


> Ouch...it is not good for me. I thought that Zen Lite is better than LL, which was added for free to more expensive stuff...



The Zen Lite has a much higher impedance than the LL.  Which is better will depend on the individuals sources, ears, and preferences.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 7, 2019)

golov17 said:


> For me Zen2.0 much better than Zen L.
> And Zen LL better than Zen L.
> Asuras have other sigs


I really didn't like the Zen L tbh, very odd tonality and a bit veiled sounding. But that's just me.

Infact I pretty don't think I liked any of the VE earbuds i the 'lite' shell. But I think the tuning on both the zen lite and monk lite is really not my taste. I preferred the monk plus and I'd probably prefer the 2.0 over the lights I would imagine.


----------



## waynes world

And then there's the grandaddy Zen 1.0


----------



## chinmie

i recently let go my Zen 2.0. apparently i like the Willsound MK300's sound more


----------



## j4100

Ira Delphic said:


> Two years ago I got  the silver cable version of the K's 64. The cable is freakishling long - and the sound muddy and bland compared to my other earbuds. Maybe  I got a bad copy?



Mine have red shells and a black cable. They certainly don't sound muddy to me, though they're not my faves. I only get to listen to music at lunchtime at work, so I haven't bothered bringing better buds in, plus it's just streaming from my phone.


----------



## Matarro

chinmie said:


> i recently let go my Zen 2.0. apparently i like the Willsound MK300's sound more



I'd be happy if everyone could refrain from talking about Willsound's buds until it's too late for me to add to my order! At this rate I'll end up with one of each pair! Mercy!


----------



## purplesun

Matarro said:


> I'd be happy if everyone could refrain from talking about Willsound's buds until it's too late for me to add to my order! At this rate I'll end up with one of each pair! Mercy!


I recommend you go have a read on the sound science threads.
After that, you won't feel like buying any earbud/IEMs/headphones ever again!
Does it for me all the time.


----------



## HungryPanda

Or start making your own and you are golden


----------



## viatraco

Matarro said:


> Willy was nice enough to send a preview:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What is the price ?


----------



## Dabbaranks

The only day I forget to bring something mmcx to work, these show up,

They smell great?


----------



## Matarro

purplesun said:


> I recommend you go have a read on the sound science threads.
> After that, you won't feel like buying any earbud/IEMs/headphones ever again!
> Does it for me all the time.



To be honest I rarely delve outside of this thread and the Radsone one apart from reviews. I went for a quick browse on the sound scince forum, not sure what to make of it yet. 



viatraco said:


> What is the price ?



$30 per earbud, $25 for the cable and $15 for shipping so $100 all in all.


----------



## waynes world

I guess I lucked out when I got my Yincrow RW-9's for $15. They are regularly closer to $30. They are worth $30.

I see that they are still on sale at a few places. For example, $14.38 here:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/AK-...arbud-Metal-Earphone-Headset/32869530104.html

What I am trying to enable all of you to do is to BUY THEM


----------



## waynes world

waynes world said:


> I guess I lucked out when I got my Yincrow RW-9's for $15. They are regularly closer to $30. They are worth $30.
> 
> I see that they are still on sale at a few places. For example, $14.38 here:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/AK-...arbud-Metal-Earphone-Headset/32869530104.html
> ...



@ClieOS, please don't post a nice picture in the Radsone thread of the RW-9's recabled with a nice 50cm 2.5mm cable. It'll kill me lol!


----------



## ClieOS

waynes world said:


> @ClieOS, please don't post a nice picture in the Radsone thread of the RW-9's recabled with a nice 50cm 2.5mm cable. It'll kill me lol!



...oh wait, I just got an idea...


----------



## snip3r77

waynes world said:


> I guess I lucked out when I got my Yincrow RW-9's for $15. They are regularly closer to $30. They are worth $30.
> 
> I see that they are still on sale at a few places. For example, $14.38 here:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/AK-...arbud-Metal-Earphone-Headset/32869530104.html
> ...


Difference btw yincrow and sl plus?


----------



## waynes world (Feb 7, 2019)

snip3r77 said:


> Difference btw yincrow and sl plus?



Here ya go:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2649#post-14759845

To be clear, I love them both. But the RW-9's have been captivating me lately.



waynes world said:


> Listened to these nifty tunes:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## mochill

I got in both my black , kube1 & 2


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> I really didn't like the Zen L tbh, very odd tonality and a bit veiled sounding. But that's just me.
> 
> Infact I pretty don't think I liked any of the VE earbuds i the 'lite' shell. But I think the tuning on both the zen lite and monk lite is really not my taste. I preferred the monk plus and I'd probably prefer the 2.0 over the lights I would imagine.



I too do not enjoy the lite versions of the VE earbuds as well. If I have to choose and live with them, only the bundled Zen LL and Monk Lite 120ohms are good.

It's also odd for me to add that I also prefer then standard versions of the Zen and Asura over their Omega Editions.


----------



## 40760

chinmie said:


> last time i purchase an audio gear from carousell Singapore, i rather fly there and meet the person for COD. waiting for shipment is unbearable, had to have it immediately



Too bad I don't get to enjoy that kind of luxury... In fact the item was shipped 2 days ago, but tracking is still not reflected on Pos Indonesia...


----------



## waynes world

palestofwhite said:


> I too do not enjoy the lite versions of the VE earbuds as well. If I have to choose and live with them, only the bundled Zen LL and Monk Lite 120ohms are good.
> 
> It's also odd for me to add that I also prefer then standard versions of the Zen and Asura over their Omega Editions.



Those 120's are quite good aren't they!


----------



## 40760

waynes world said:


> Those 120's are quite good aren't they!



Yes! Those are pretty good, especially when you got the cheaper "limited" versions with the white cable.

I supposed the more expensive SPC version should sound better? Since I like how standard Asura 2.0s sound with the same SPC cable.
Aside from the yellowing of the cables near the shells and stiffness that's less manageable.


----------



## letlive

waynes world said:


> To be clear, I love them both. But the RW-9's have been captivating me lately.


Do you prefer them to the Sabia V6?


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> I guess I lucked out when I got my Yincrow RW-9's for $15. They are regularly closer to $30. They are worth $30.
> 
> I see that they are still on sale at a few places. For example, $14.38 here:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/AK-...arbud-Metal-Earphone-Headset/32869530104.html
> ...



That is the price I got ...same link.  Looking forward to receiving them.


----------



## waynes world

palestofwhite said:


> Yes! Those are pretty good, especially when you got the cheaper "limited" versions with the white cable.



Yes, that's the one that I have. They like a little juice, and they sound great off of a good amp.



letlive said:


> Do you prefer them to the Sabia V6?



Asking me which I prefer is like asking which of my kids I love the most lol.

The Sabia V6's have a more V-shaped signature, and the bass is epic, and I love them for electronic music. The RW-9's are more U or W-shaped and more "balanced", and for rock or vocal oriented music where more presence in the mids is a benefit, the RW-9's sound amazing.

In summary, I love all of my kids


----------



## j4100

RW9. Which colour though? 

I do like red, but also blue.


----------



## Dabbaranks (Feb 8, 2019)

Ok I got these tianderenhe wooden buds home and let them burn in overnight, initial impressions were way tooo sibilant for me to listen to, after burn in its better but still not really for me.

I stuffed the ports at the back with a little bit of muji cotton, this definitely tamed the highs a bit but these things have like 0 bass to my ears. I also tried putting scotch tape over the port with cotton in and that sounded horrible, even thinner sound.

It doesn’t sound bad, but currently snares/vocals are very shouty and overall sound is kind of thin with the lack of bass. Tried stock DM6 cable and Fiio 2.5mm cable, settled with my lz copper 2.5mm but tbh they didn’t make much of a difference. Listened to them through my Jotunheim multibit and hiby r6 (**EDIT** sounds way better with some bass heavier sources FiiO q5 bass boosted + Allen heath xone 43 lows cranked up both amped with my jot but still meh for me). Test track was D’evils by SiR.

Hope that helps anyone who was also looking at these. And if anyone has any mods I could try without opening these (I’m sure they’re glued to hell) would be greatly appreciated


----------



## Ira Delphic

j4100 said:


> RW9. Which colour though?
> 
> I do like red, but also blue.



If Waynes World doesn't stop it... red *and* blue


----------



## toear

Ok... if one of your children was RW-9 and another was R4YS... which one would get to choose the dessert for tonight?





waynes world said:


> Yes, that's the one that I have. They like a little juice, and they sound great off of a good amp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## waynes world

toear said:


> Ok... if one of your children was RW-9 and another was R4YS... which one would get to choose the dessert for tonight?



Poor Little Billy (RY4S) was definitely the dessert flavor of the month a few months ago, but has been feeling a bit neglected lately. No fault of Little Billy! I'm going to have to pay that child some more attention...


----------



## Willber

Dabbaranks said:


> And if anyone has any mods I could try without opening these (I’m sure they’re glued to hell) would be greatly appreciated


EQ.


----------



## DBaldock9

I've now got a pair of Sparkos SS3602 Dual Discrete Op-amps, and they're currently in my iBasso PB2 amp. 
. 
Playing High Res tracks with JRiver MC24 on my PC (Toslink) -> FiiO Taishan D03K DAC -> PB2 (Balanced Out) -> VE Zen 2.0 ZOE really sounds amazing.


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> RW9. Which colour though?
> 
> I do like red, but also blue.





Ira Delphic said:


> If Waynes World doesn't stop it... red *and* blue




The reason I picked the blue is because my Willsound is red with a red cable plus (kind of a similar look) I have a few other red buds but not much blue.

Only one red RW9 left the last time I looked... I think they will run this sale until they are gone because there are not many total remaining.


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> Only one red RW9 left the last time I looked... I think they will run this sale until they are gone because there are not many total remaining.


I AM RESISTING!

(Unless someone says that they have a better soundstage and separation than the SL 1.0/1.0+ and Kube v1.)


----------



## waynes world

Willber said:


> I AM RESISTING!
> 
> (Unless someone says that they have a better soundstage and separation than the SL 1.0/1.0+ and Kube v1.)



Wow! Would those rw9's ever compliment your sl1.o+'s and kube v1's nicely! He he.


----------



## Willber

waynes world said:


> Wow! Would those rw9's ever compliment your sl1.o+'s and kube v1's nicely! He he.


Sorry, too vague!


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Wow! Would those rw9's ever compliment your sl1.o+'s and kube v1's nicely! He he.



Who will buy the last red one?


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

ordered myself a set of red RW-9s earlier today...


----------



## HungryPanda

My HP760's kick their butt


----------



## waynes world

Willber said:


> Sorry, too vague!



Your powers or resistance are good! Sad for you!



HungryPanda said:


> My HP760's kick their butt



Ha - getting into the fray! Have you heard the rw9's?


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Ha - getting into the fray! Have you heard the rw9's?



haha ... he will have to wait and hear mine whenever they get here, but the ones he makes do kick butt.


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> haha ... he will have to wait and hear mine whenever they get here, but the ones he makes do kick butt.



HungryPanda's "The Butt Kicker" 

now that's a catchy name for an earbud


----------



## waynes world

waynes world said:


> Poor Little Billy (RY4S) was definitely the dessert flavor of the month a few months ago, but has been feeling a bit neglected lately. No fault of Little Billy! I'm going to have to pay that child some more attention...



Ok, Little Billy has gotten some more attention now. I forgot how much I like the kid! The RY4S sounds really great.



mbwilson111 said:


> haha ... he will have to wait and hear mine whenever they get here, but the ones he makes do kick butt.



Like I said, I love all of my kids. But now I kinda want to also adopt HungryPanda's special "The Butt Kicker" kid


----------



## assassin10000

Got my sub $2 Vido's on the 30th. Started burning in on the 31st and just pulled them off today. For the price, not bad.




After 190-200ish hours I find it sounds like the bass/mid-bass/lower mids are too much or too 'warm' a signature for me. Highs are a bit rolled off, mids recessed but again it has plenty of bass. Nothing that EQ'ing can't fix.

I also spent a couple minutes 'fixing' the J-cable. Right bud came apart with ease, just had to snag the cover with my thumbnail.


----------



## Dabbaranks

Willber said:


> EQ.



Lol thanks this opened a can of worms for me, I never know when to stop EQ’ing. But I mean I got it closer to listenable atleast, had to add a fake 10” inch sub to fill in the low end and dial the 6hz down atleast 3db. 

Wish these didn’t look so good or I’d just give up on them now


----------



## Ira Delphic (Feb 9, 2019)

For some reason this song from 1994 is topping the YouTube charts in Japan!
Lo-fi ish so sounds good on most earbuds.



https://www.stereogum.com/2031432/dinosaur-jr-japan-chart-over-your-shoulder/news/


----------



## assassin10000

Dabbaranks said:


> Lol thanks this opened a can of worms for me, I never know when to stop EQ’ing. But I mean I got it closer to listenable atleast, had to add a fake 10” inch sub to fill in the low end and dial the 6hz down atleast 3db.
> 
> Wish these didn’t look so good or I’d just give up on them now



Did you try different foams? If you have some thicker full foams it may both reduce your treble issues and bring the bass forward.


----------



## Dabbaranks

assassin10000 said:


> Did you try different foams? If you have some thicker full foams it may both reduce your treble issues and bring the bass forward.



Thanks for the suggestion! I’m already rocking double foams on the wooden tian’s not super thick though, and that did help the bass and some of the treble issues and better isolation for me. But alas something is bugging me about them still, need more time.

Nice work on the vido J cable btw, looks super clean!


----------



## snip3r77

assassin10000 said:


> Got my sub $2 Vido's on the 30th. Started burning in on the 31st and just pulled them off today. For the price, not bad.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you can change the cable to tune up the highs( since vido is lacking in this area )


----------



## mochill

Loving the kube2 , its a smooth earbud, had slight distortion which should go away with burn in.


----------



## Marcos Fontana (Feb 9, 2019)

Danneq said:


> Yeah, he knows his stuff.
> 
> He also warned me about putting the grills of the ZoomFred against eachother, since the magnets are stronger than what he normally use. If the magnets are exposed to too strong magnetic attraction, they might become displaced (as far as I understand it).
> 
> Looking forward to reading more of your impressions on your ZoomFred Pro.


My impression is that I found the one. Bass, mids, treble and a 3d soundstage... I believe that ZoomFred is what you expect to hear from a true TOTL, what a TOTL should be. It works very well with everything that I have here (IFI BL, Mojo, ES100, V20, etc). With the ES100 I can ajust ZoomFred even more (Eq but I really don't need)... ZoomFred is without any doubt my best earbud by far. Do you know that sensation that the same song is totally different and different in a awesome way? It's like you are listening to another record. The thing I wanted most is to know how Herry can tune this earbud so well.

I will enjoy a bit more and I plan to get a Red Dragon from Herry in a near future. I'm really enjoying the ZoomFred.

Thank you @Danneq and @golov17 for help me to choose between to many options!


----------



## Marcos Fontana (Feb 8, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I have the Zen LL and love it.  It is one of only a few buds that I have with a balanced cable.  I had the Zen Lite (bought used).  Traded with my husband for the LL...because he has more serious amps.
> 
> I don't have nor have I heard any of the others. I personally will not spend that much for any bud.  Too fragile plus I am having too much fun with inexpensive ones like the Kube, the Faaeals, and others...especially the ones my husband @HungryPanda has been making.
> 
> I think he had made ten for me so far.  . He has also recabled several others.


I love Zen LL so much that I bought one RunAbout just to get a spare pair . I have two


----------



## theresanarc

Nymphonomaniac said:


> So...what happen with this TINGO brand?
> 
> Just read on ''earbuds anonymous'' somebody that suggest TC200 for great bass and make fast google search and find this picture share ON THIS VERY THREAD like billions year ago (page 235 lol)
> 
> ...



I'm very interested in a sub-16mm earbud, any more of these? I don't care about sound quality too much as long as it's fairly cheap and not awful.


----------



## fairx

Yincrow rw-9 or faaeal rosemary.? Suddenly got the itch.


----------



## dwil

Hi. I'm interested in buying my first pair of earbuds. Looking for something that is well made, built to last and feels premium. In terms of tonal balance, I'm looking for something similar to the porta pros (with better bass extension and slightly more present treble), if possible. I also need the cable to be detachable. Looking to spend ~$100. Can anyone give me any suggestions?

Thanks.


----------



## jogawag

theresanarc said:


> I'm very interested in a sub-16mm earbud, any more of these? I don't care about sound quality too much as long as it's fairly cheap and not awful.


Moondrop VX Pro's diameter is about 14mm. So I use this with rubber ring.


----------



## dwil

Dabbaranks said:


> The only day I forget to bring something mmcx to work, these show up,
> 
> They smell great?


What are those?


----------



## mbwilson111

fairx said:


> Yincrow rw-9 or faaeal rosemary.? Suddenly got the itch.



Both of course, 

Otherwise you will always wonder.


----------



## Con Par

quick quension which pk2 is the best which should i buy?
pk2 sr2
Panda PK2s
FENGRU DIY PK2
or SHOZY XB


----------



## HungryPanda

Of those I prefer the SR2


----------



## doggiemom

I see that Rholupat has Willsound MK3 VJC for sale now.  Ugh.  I'm trying not to buy anymore buds, but I go all Pokemon about the Willsounds.......


----------



## Ira Delphic (Feb 9, 2019)

doggiemom said:


> I see that Rholupat has Willsound MK3 VJC for sale now.  Ugh.  I'm trying not to buy anymore buds, but I go all Pokemon about the Willsounds.......



Tempting...


----------



## Sp12er3 (Feb 9, 2019)

https://www.audio-technica.com/cms/headphones/15b63bfb15592af7/index.html
did AT released a flagship Earbuds???
was this old news? have anyone tried it?


----------



## Willber

Sp12er3 said:


> https://www.audio-technica.com/cms/headphones/15b63bfb15592af7/index.html
> did AT released a flagship Earbuds???
> was this old news? have anyone tried it?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2645#post-14754400


----------



## Dabbaranks

dwil said:


> What are those?



Tiandirenhe sandal wood buds from AE


----------



## doggiemom

I got an email that someone asked what shipping is from Rholupat to the US, so I had to buy the Willsound to find out.    It is $7.  Now I can't find the actual post....... but the purchase has been made for the sake of the community.


----------



## Chris674

My daughter threw a pair of Monks that I sleep with on the floor and I stepped on them. Ruined one of the drivers...so I took the cable and recabled a pair or MH755's. My first recable! More of a proof of concept as I actually purchased a couple of extra pairs and some new cables in anticipation of causing a lot of damage. It was frustratingly simple. The soldering wasn't too pretty but what is done is done.


----------



## mbwilson111

Chris674 said:


> My daughter threw a pair of Monks that I sleep with on the floor and I stepped on them. Ruined one of the drivers...so I took the cable and recabled a pair or MH755's. My first recable! More of a proof of concept as I actually purchased a couple of extra pairs and some new cables in anticipation of causing a lot of damage. It was frustratingly simple. The soldering wasn't too pretty but what is done is done.



Would you like to share a photo?


----------



## Chris674

mbwilson111 said:


> Would you like to share a photo?


Absolutely! Didn't think about closing the strain relief opening but I'll probably go back and seal them with some tacky.


----------



## mbwilson111

Chris674 said:


> Absolutely! Didn't think about closing the strain relief opening but I'll probably go back and seal them with some tacky.



Looks good.  The black cable looks nice with the green tips.    My husband did mine with an inexpensive cable from aliexpress.   Left those white parts on mine but he didn't think about it with his.  He has a blue braided cable on his and put on tips with blue cores

Here is mine... one of mine... bought three... lol.


----------



## Chris674

mbwilson111 said:


> Looks good.  The black cable looks nice with the green tips.    My husband did mine with an inexpensive cable from aliexpress.   Left those white parts on mine but he didn't think about it with his.  He has a blue braided cable on his and put on tips with blue cores
> 
> Here is mine... one of mine... bought three... lol.


Nice. Blue braided sounds great also. I have two more pairs sitting out in my car hiding from my wife. Now that I know I can do it, I'm thinking of flashier looking cables to try. Then there's the Kubes and Vidos I got last week...


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 9, 2019)

Chris674 said:


> Nice. Blue braided sounds great also. I have two more pairs sitting out in my car hiding from my wife. Now that I know I can do it, I'm thinking of flashier looking cables to try. Then there's the Kubes and Vidos I got last week...



I am leaving the Kubes as they are... I like how the cable matches.  I  have a purple one and my husband has blue.  I am supposed to also have orange but it has been at Heathrow airport for 10 days so I am getting worried about it.  We have wrecked a few drivers recabling buds so I don't want to risk it anyway.   I  think maybe some of the earbud drivers are more delicate than this MH755.

Here is my recabled Vido... one driver fell apart but because the same happened when he recabled his, he still had the good one left from that project to use for mine... people do suggest having more than one Vido before beginning the project... those things just want to fall apart.  His has entirely different drivers in it now.. so I guess it is not a Vido anymore in spite of what the shell says.


----------



## Chris674

mbwilson111 said:


> I am leaving the Kubes as they are... I like how the cable matches.  I  have a purple one and my husband has blue.  I am supposed to also have orange but it has been at Heathrow airport for 10 days so I am getting worried about it.  We have wrecked a few drivers recabling buds so I don't want to take risk it anyway.   I  think maybe some of the earbud drivers are more delicate than this MH755.


Yeah, I've seen you all post about ruining Vidos. I just got my first pair of them and they are really amazing! I want to have a pair to show off like jewelry. I like the Kubes cable color (blue) but it is soooo flimsy. Maybe you're right, they might be too special to mess with...or I need to order another pair as a backup first.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

*@mbwilson111     I know you don't do reviews, but was wondering if you could give a thumbs up or down on them dual driver buds?    *


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 9, 2019)

Thumbs up unless you expect basshead levels of bass.  The shape is extremely comfortable

Just realized we never mentioned it in this thread... it was in another thread.

so...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07MZ6624S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

...and there will also be a link on Amazon.com and maybe others.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

mbwilson111 said:


> Thumbs up unless you expect basshead levels of bass.  The shape is extremely comfortable


They looked comfortable. They were touting them as sleep worthy buds. Was trying to wrap my mind around the record function? What would that be for? Recording phone convos? LOL


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 9, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> They looked comfortable. They were touting them as sleep worthy buds. Was trying to wrap my mind around the record function? What would that be for? Recording phone convos? LOL



Record function?  I am ignoring the mic/control thing.  I use daps (or even my desktop system) not phones so mics are useless and annoying.   I broke my rule about never getting another cable with a mic.  

...and yes, I was thinking I could sleep with these.  They feel  more secure than my other pod the Memt T5... and no, I have not compared them.  Last night at this time I had never even heard of them.   The wonders of same day delivery.  It's such a nice change from aliexpress where most of my buds come from.


----------



## snip3r77

waynes world said:


> Listened to these nifty tunes:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What about mods and brightness?


----------



## fairx

Now that we've seen DLC diaphragm on iem I wonder when earbud will adapt it. It is technically possible right.? We do have graphene coated.


----------



## 40760

fairx said:


> Now that we've seen DLC diaphragm on iem I wonder when earbud will adapt it. It is technically possible right.? We do have graphene coated.


ATH-CM2000Ti


----------



## fairx

palestofwhite said:


> ATH-CM2000Ti


Ouch that price. Hope more makers  will adapt.


----------



## exavolt

dwil said:


> Hi. I'm interested in buying my first pair of earbuds. Looking for something that is well made, built to last and feels premium. In terms of tonal balance, I'm looking for something similar to the porta pros (with better bass extension and slightly more present treble), if possible. I also need the cable to be detachable. Looking to spend ~$100. Can anyone give me any suggestions?
> 
> Thanks.


Some sub-100 buds with detachable cable I know: Toneking TO 65/150/200 / Unicorn / TO400s / TY2, OURART Ti7 / ACG, Svara L, (banned brand) BK2 . Other buds around $100 (which could go down to sub-100 on sales): TO600, NiceHCK EBX, Rose Masya. Otherwise, there are some tuners, like WillSound, which would provide option for detachable cable.

I can't make any suggestion as I only have the ACG for the sub-100 with detachable cable. I really love it but it's probably not for everyone.


----------



## exavolt

fairx said:


> Now that we've seen DLC diaphragm on iem I wonder when earbud will adapt it. It is technically possible right.? We do have graphene coated.


What we haven't seen is buds with planar magnetic drivers

My guess, it'll be Toneking which will put planar into buds.


----------



## RobinFood

I went to listen to the ATH-CM2000Ti today. I dunno, it has one of those really particular sounds that is interesting and makes all your music sound new and interesting, but you definitely don't feel like this is it, your final earbud. 

I was thinking about it today, and it just hit me. It sounds like the Final Audio Piano Forte 8! It has that super distant and wide sound stage. 

That being said, overall the mids tend to sound cleaner on the CM2000, but I find the fit MUCH better on the Piano Forte series. The CM2000 shell is really big, even compared to the MX500 shell, and has a strange rigidity to the shell that is hard to place. It is also fit dependent, and you have to fiddle with it to get the best sound.

If I were super rich though, I dunno what I would do. If money were no object I might get the Piano Forte instead for the fit, and might get a modder to re-cable it.

Maybe it's time to DIY a Piano Forte with my un-used earbuds!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

RobinFood said:


> I went to listen to the ATH-CM2000Ti today. I dunno, it has one of those really particular sounds that is interesting and makes all your music sound new and interesting, but you definitely don't feel like this is it, your final earbud.
> 
> I was thinking about it today, and it just hit me. It sounds like the Final Audio Piano Forte 8! It has that super distant and wide sound stage.
> 
> ...


Foams or no foams? No foams looks like little pizza cutters.  Very sharp edges. Reviews that I have been reading are all saying they are really good at vocals and basically have that AT house sound that we all either hate or love. 

Been thinking about picking them up.  AMS has them for $50 a month for 8 months.  Makes it easier to hide big purchases from unapproving spouses.


----------



## mbwilson111

BadReligionPunk said:


> Makes it easier to hide big purchases from unapproving spouses



Hmmmm,....the male headfi mindset.


----------



## Ziggomatic

Help me spend money... Which Willsound earbuds should I get if my favorite at the moment is the BS1 Official? Looking for a non-fatiguing, balanced sound (but I like bass, too). Thanks!


----------



## Ira Delphic (Feb 10, 2019)

Listening to  -



with TY Hi-Z HP-650. Not bass monsters - laid back, good mids, and very good resolution. I'm not sure if even spending and extra $300 (HP-650 cost $100) on ATH-CM2000Ti  would reveal anything else in the the acoustive guitar, vocals or mix. At least or my ears 

And for this - 



An $11 SL 1.0+ CE is superior!


----------



## golov17

RobinFood said:


> I went to listen to the ATH-CM2000Ti today. I dunno, it has one of those really particular sounds that is interesting and makes all your music sound new and interesting, but you definitely don't feel like this is it, your final earbud.
> 
> I was thinking about it today, and it just hit me. It sounds like the Final Audio Piano Forte 8! It has that super distant and wide sound stage.
> 
> ...


soon! 
Russian Federation, MR LC Vnukovo Cex-1 MMPO 102976, Customs clearance, Released by custom house


----------



## dwil

exavolt said:


> Some sub-100 buds with detachable cable I know: Toneking TO 65/150/200 / Unicorn / TO400s / TY2, OURART Ti7 / ACG, Svara L, (banned brand) BK2 . Other buds around $100 (which could go down to sub-100 on sales): TO600, NiceHCK EBX, Rose Masya. Otherwise, there are some tuners, like WillSound, which would provide option for detachable cable.
> 
> I can't make any suggestion as I only have the ACG for the sub-100 with detachable cable. I really love it but it's probably not for everyone.



Thanks for the reply. 

The NiceHCK EBX and Rose Masya/Masya Pro seem great. Which of them sound better? I'm looking for something that sounds similar to the porta pros- relaxed sounding, bassy, with fast resolving mids/treble and a rolled off treble. 

Why is the svara l a "banned brand"? What does "banned brand" mean? Banned on head-fi or banned on aliexpress?


----------



## HungryPanda

Svara is not banned to my knowledge, and the banned merchants are banned from head-fi for nefarious posts. The NiceHCK EBX sounds more like what you describe than the Rose earbuds


----------



## dwil

HungryPanda said:


> Svara is not banned to my knowledge, and the banned merchants are banned from head-fi for nefarious posts. The NiceHCK EBX sounds more like what you describe than the Rose earbuds



Thanks. The ebx won't sound sibilant at all, right?


----------



## HungryPanda

No the EBX is a really good earbud


----------



## herzhz

It's been a long time since the last time i post something here.
hello, how are you doing??
#TeamRED is here.



>


----------



## exavolt

dwil said:


> Why is the svara l a "banned brand"? What does "banned brand" mean? Banned on head-fi or banned on aliexpress?


Sorry. It was for the next item, Y****o BK2, not the Svara L. The brand is banned from this forum https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1978#post-14135342

Panda already got you covered. EBX is an all-rounder but I haven't heard the porta pros though so I can't be sure if it'll match.


----------



## exavolt

herzhz said:


> It's been a long time since the last time i post something here.
> hello, how are you doing??
> #TeamRED is here.


It's been in my whishlist for some time at toped. It got some good reviews there.


----------



## assassin10000 (Feb 10, 2019)

So got my Ourart ACG's working (mmcx center pin was the problem), burned them in. Wow these have a really sweet mid's and good treble. A little lacking in sub bass/bass but I was able to EQ them enough to be happy.

Too bad the cable I got with them is garbage.


----------



## exavolt

assassin10000 said:


> So got my Ourart ACG's working (mmcx center pin was the problem), burned them in. Wow these have a really sweet mid's and good treble. A little lacking in sub bass/bass but I was able to EQ them enough to be happy.
> 
> Too bad the cable I got with them is garbage.


One of my buds is mute sometimes. I only need to rotate the connector to get it working again.

Ordering the new NiceHCK's 8-core high-purity copper for them.


----------



## assassin10000 (Feb 11, 2019)

exavolt said:


> One of my buds is mute sometimes. I only need to rotate the connector to get it working again.
> 
> Ordering the new NiceHCK's 8-core high-purity copper for them.



If you have the steady hands to do it, the center pin in the earbud MMCX is 'split' and if it's too spread/loose that can cause it to loose contact with the MMCX cable center pin. You can use a pick or extremely small pliers (basically tweezers) to close it up and get them to work better. It doesn't take much so be careful. Mine were spread so far that they weren't making any contact unless I found a sweet spot.


My ACG's are currently on my BT20, burned them in using the cable from my PT25.

I ordered a new cable for mine as well, only a 4 core but it has an angled connector and non-memory wire ear guides that I prefer currently:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hig...-2pin-or-Weston-W4R-U16-UE18/32953041901.html


----------



## exavolt (Feb 11, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> If you have the steady hands to do it, the center pin in the earbud MMCX is 'split' and if it's too spread/loose that can cause it to loose contact with the MMCX cable center pin. You can use a pick or extremely small pliers (basically tweezers) to close it up and get them to work better. It doesn't take much so be careful. Mine were spread so far that they weren't making any contact unless I found a sweet spot.


Thanks! I'll try that. I thought that it's caused by poor internal wiring / soldering as happened to my V80, which fortunately, I've got it fixed by resoldering the wire.

Edit: reporting in. it's working! the connection is reliable now. thanks a bunch @assassin10000  . I think it is the same problem hit by HungryPanda when he was modding his MH755.


----------



## Ira Delphic

assassin10000 said:


> So got my Ourart ACG's working (mmcx center pin was the problem), burned them in. Wow these have a really sweet mid's and good treble. A little lacking in sub bass/bass but I was able to EQ them enough to be happy.
> 
> Too bad the cable I got with them is garbage.



What's inside of the rectangular part of the ACG or what it its purpose? My guess a tiny circuit board?


----------



## assassin10000

Ira Delphic said:


> What's inside of the rectangular part of the ACG or what it its purpose? My guess a tiny circuit board?



That houses the MMCX connector.


----------



## MelodyMood

Hi Guys. I am looking for an earbud which is one step ahead of TP16. I have Monk+, MX500S, TP16 etc. TP16 sound is good but is there anything which is slightly better than this in terms of overall sound. I prefer bass and smooth high and the earbud should have Mic also as I use it with my phone. Also, budget is not high. Around same budget of TP16 but few $$$ here and there is fine. Suggestions are welcomed in advance  .


----------



## MelodyMood

Forgot to mention that I have Yincrow X6 also. That is good. But I like the cable and build quality of TP16. So something which is having good quality build and great in sound will be good


----------



## MelodyMood

Also, I would like to have some high impedence bud but should be loud enough. Monk+ was 64 Ohms but poor build quality that it broke down in few days only. And there was no Bass at all. So 64 Ohms or more is good but again with Mic pls. Thanks


----------



## Willber

Hi @MelodyMood, welcome to the forum.

I don't have many buds with a mic but the best I have is this:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...With-Mic-For-Phone-PC-Tablet/32828298514.html

Don't be put off by the low price. I prefer it to the Monk+, EMX500S and Yincrow X6 that you mention (I don't have the TP16). Sound and build quality are excellent, with a very large soundstage due to the vented back. I would say that the signature is similar to the X6. It is in my top 5 favourites, beating lots of earphones costing many times more. Highly recommended by me.


----------



## MelodyMood

Willber said:


> Hi @MelodyMood, welcome to the forum.
> 
> I don't have many buds with a mic but the best I have is this:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...With-Mic-For-Phone-PC-Tablet/32828298514.html
> ...


Thanks. Let me review it. One query, due to vented back, does it leak sound when you listen? When you say it is similar to X6, what difference we can notice?


----------



## Willber

Yes, there is likely to be some leakage. Not sure how much more than other buds, though.

The similarity is in the balance between the various frequencies (lows - mids - highs). I use EQ and the profiles I have set up are very similar for both of them. The MS16 has a bigger soundstage (which is my main priority) and I think tighter lows. I am not in a position to A/B them at the moment.


----------



## MelodyMood

Willber said:


> Yes, there is likely to be some leakage. Not sure how much more than other buds, though.
> 
> The similarity is in the balance between the various frequencies (lows - mids - highs). I use EQ and the profiles I have set up are very similar for both of them. The MS16 has a bigger soundstage (which is my main priority) and I think tighter lows. I am not in a position to A/B them at the moment.


Ok. I also noticed that you have Snow Lotus earbuds. ow are they? I guess thee is an Iris earbud too. Are they good in Bass and smooth on high?


----------



## Willber

Both the SLs I have are excellent throughout the frequency range but different to each other. There are lots of good impressions on this forum for them. Both are also in my top 5 but don't have mics.


----------



## MelodyMood

Willber said:


> Both the SLs I have are excellent throughout the frequency range but different to each other. There are lots of good impressions on this forum for them. Both are also in my top 5 but don't have mics.


Ok. So it seems it is not easy to find better earbud than TP16 or Yincrow around same price range? Especially which has higher impedence and have mic too.


----------



## Willber

I'm just one person and these things are subjective. Hopefully you will get more replies. But I have given you an option that IMO is better than the X6 you like, and which has a mic, for less than $6 - I would say that's a pretty good start!


----------



## MelodyMood

Willber said:


> I'm just one person and these things are subjective. Hopefully you will get more replies. But I have given you an option that IMO is better than the X6 you like, and which has a mic, for less than $6 - I would say that's a pretty good start!


Thanks brother. I will also wait for others to reply and provide their input.


----------



## Willber (Feb 11, 2019)

Good luck, lots of knowledgeable people on here. I'm off to bed now.


----------



## 40760

Out goes the ZOE and AOE...


----------



## MelodyMood

What is ZOE and AOE?


----------



## 40760

MelodyMood said:


> What is ZOE and AOE?



Omega Editions of the VE Zen and Asura...


----------



## MelodyMood

Ok. I heard they are very expensive earbuds. US$100-200 range.


----------



## 40760

MelodyMood said:


> Ok. I heard they are very expensive earbuds. US$100-200 range.



That's right. Somehow I'm not too fond of the Omega Editions, so off they go and I should have their standard versions coming in soon...


----------



## golov17

MelodyMood said:


> Thanks brother. I will also wait for others to reply and provide their input.


Try it
https://m.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_351830.html


----------



## Carrow

Shoutout to Tuneout Audio for completely wasting my time on an order and not even pretending they were interested in my custom. I get that they're busy but it seemed to me they were very reluctant to even respond to my messages, never mind get back to me with shipping and payment info. Not sure what that's about as I'd heard nothing but good things, but if they don't want to respond to me in a relatively timely fashion then it can't be helped.


----------



## drey101

Carrow said:


> Shoutout to Tuneout Audio for completely wasting my time on an order and not even pretending they were interested in my custom. I get that they're busy but it seemed to me they were very reluctant to even respond to my messages, never mind get back to me with shipping and payment info. Not sure what that's about as I'd heard nothing but good things, but if they don't want to respond to me in a relatively timely fashion then it can't be helped.


Don't worry, you lucked out and saved some money. DP100, Panda PK2, SL 1.0 are all better buds. The Tuneout All In SE I ordered was lauded to be balanced and mid centric, but apparently that means drowning out the rest of the sound with midbass.


----------



## waynes world

Carrow said:


> Shoutout to Tuneout Audio for completely wasting my time on an order and not even pretending they were interested in my custom. I get that they're busy but it seemed to me they were very reluctant to even respond to my messages, never mind get back to me with shipping and payment info. Not sure what that's about as I'd heard nothing but good things, but if they don't want to respond to me in a relatively timely fashion then it can't be helped.



I have no idea, but I wonder if Chinese New Year has had an effect on them (seems to shut down Aliexpress lol).


----------



## HungryPanda

China seem to be back up and running (in some places anyway) getting messages and orders shipping notices today


----------



## drey101

waynes world said:


> I have no idea, but I wonder if Chinese New Year has had an effect on them (seems to shut down Aliexpress lol).


Shouldn't have affected them much, as CNY only gave the Philippines a single day of holiday (Feb 5). They've been very active in the local groups already, so it's possible that they're just not as interested in the international scene because they're too bust dealing with local requests. There was a large influx of orders recently for the local scene as a cache of JVC Victors were found and many of the local shops were selling modded versions of it. Not sure if they were part of that, but afaik the stock of Victors dried up.


----------



## Winterheim

drey101 said:


> Shouldn't have affected them much, as CNY only gave the Philippines a single day of holiday (Feb 5). They've been very active in the local groups already, so it's possible that they're just not as interested in the international scene because they're too bust dealing with local requests. There was a large influx of orders recently for the local scene as a cache of JVC Victors were found and many of the local shops were selling modded versions of it. Not sure if they were part of that, but afaik the stock of Victors dried up.



They weren't selling any JVC/Victors or modded ones but they were putting up a lot of their DIY buds on sale as they had a significant price drop on their merch.


----------



## Rockwell75

I'm looking for a set of wide boar eartips similar in size to the stock silicon tips (not the FA ones) that come with the Campfire Atlas but are more comfortable...any suggestions?


----------



## j4100

Rockwell75 said:


> I'm looking for a set of wide boar eartips similar in size to the stock silicon tips (not the FA ones) that come with the Campfire Atlas but are more comfortable...any suggestions?



Wrong thread. This is for earbuds. No silicone in here


----------



## Rockwell75

j4100 said:


> Wrong thread. This is for earbuds. No silicone in here



Oops lol...yeah I derped and thought this thread was about eartips.


----------



## Willber

golov17 said:


> Try it
> https://m.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_351830.html


The white one doesn't seem to have a mic. The black one does, though:

https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_351831.html

Hmm, these passed me by - perhaps it's time to give them a go...


----------



## GREQ

So a few weeks ago I had a little misunderstanding about the Kube (v1) being an essentially 'later variant' of the Cubu (or Cubus).
@Redcarmoose pointed out that these are actually different buds, and offered to send one out for measuring.

Upon receiving it, every physical aspect of these buds is identical to the Kube aside from the printed text (and colour ^_^)
Even the acoustic lens perforations appear to be the same size.
(I noticed that the holes in the Sabia V6 lens are slightly larger, and this is likely a factor in bud tuning)

The Cubu was burned with pink noise for approximately 15 hours before listening/measuring.




_*A little disclaimer:*_
First of all - Earbuds are the most difficult things to measure. They don't quite fit in the silicone ears properly on the MiniDSP EARS jig, and no compensation curve for buds is provided.
These measurements are all made using:
- a single piece of new foam 
- Unique IEM compensation file provided by MiniDSP 
- Rubber band around jig to help keep bud in one place while measuring (helps prevent creeping)

The results are non scientific and channel differences are more likely to be incremental differences in seal/fit and not channel imbalance, and should all be taken with a pinch of salt in the spirit of fun.
Some of these graphs take 20-30 sweeps to get something actually usable from a single channel.

I found my two Kubes to sound pretty much identical, so this is useful for a sanity check.
 

Cubu, at a glance, appears to be identical, *and for the most part it is!*
It looks like there could be slightly more treble energy, and I think my ears hear it to.... but I'm still not 100% sure.
No doubt, these buds are siblings, dare I say twins, albeit not identical. There could be a 2-3% incremental difference at most, but I might be fooling myself at this point.
I've also got the problem of A/B'ing with buds, which as we all know is insanely difficult to judge because incremental changes in fit will affect the tonal balance... so that happens literally every swap.

If I had to declare anything concrete, is that these buds (Cubu / Kube) are more similar than any other buds I've heard or own, and they might be the same.
(I reserve the right to come back and eat my words at any point!  )


----------



## MelodyMood

golov17 said:


> Try it
> https://m.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_351830.html


Thanks. Are they good and better than TP16? Are you having them and used too?


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 12, 2019)

*This is a sort of PSA post:*

Protect your hearing guys. Don't listen too loud. Better to be safe than have to deal with hearing issues.

I say this because I recently developed Tinnitus in my left ear. I'm not sure if it was because I was listening to music too loudly (I was at that time, even if just for 5 minutes) or the ear infection I had. But for the past 3 days I've been dealing with a high pitch ringing in my left ear. It's not pleasant but I'm trying to deal with it and look for possible ways to manage/reduce it or hopefully get rid of it.

Another possibility is I got it through taking medication (I was on Amoxicillin antibiotics for strep throat) as many are ototoxic and in a small minority of cases can cause hearing and balance issues by effecting the ears. So just beware of that too.

So right now I'm staying clear of listening to my buds for a few weeks and will report back soon and ease myself back into listening at low-moderate volumes.

But please for everyones sake keep your ears safe, you've no idea how nice it is to hear crystal clear, and in silence and we take our ears for granted sometimes (at least I did!). Take care guys!


----------



## seanc6441

On another note, received my blox Yin "upgrade" from blox earphones as I sent my TM9 in a while back.

I will post my impressions in a few weeks once I get back to listening.


----------



## Matarro

seanc6441 said:


> *This is a sort of PSA post:*
> 
> Protect your hearing guys. Don't listen too loud. Better to be safe than have to deal with hearing issues.
> 
> ...



Sorry to hear about this, that sucks. I hope you have a speedy recovery! I worry about this sometimes myself since I often listen in loud environments which causes me to turn up the volume. (Noise canceling headphones isn't an option, gotta be semi aware of my surroundings.) Opting for podcasts or audio books on those occasions seems like a good idea, they don't get quite as loud. 

Anyway, take care, Sean. Hope you can get back to enjoying your music again soon!


----------



## HungryPanda

Get you ears back in tip top condition soon Sean


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> *This is a sort of PSA post:*
> 
> Protect your hearing guys. Don't listen too loud. Better to be safe than have to deal with hearing issues.
> 
> ...



Hope your ear is better soon! I've also have tinnitus (in my left ear as well). Listening to iems seemed to flare it up, so I quit them and the tinnitus has not flared up again since switching to buds a few years ago. Fwiw!


----------



## MelodyMood

How is Seahf F32T in comparison to TP16? Darker and bassy? Harsher treble or what?


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 12, 2019)

waynes world said:


> Hope your ear is better soon! I've also have tinnitus (in my left ear as well). Listening to iems seemed to flare it up, so I quit them and the tinnitus has not flared up again since switching to buds a few years ago. Fwiw!


Is yours a constant thing? Is it quiet and unnoticeable usually? Do you also have some sensitivity to certain sounds/frequency when it flares up. Also how about popping in your ear? Mine are popping a lot when I yawn, but that may just be because the infection has inflamed the eusthacian tube which equalises ear pressure. It all seems very complex and hard to pin point whats causing what.

So far mine has been manageable during the day but sleeping was quiet difficult. It's a very high frequency ringing so it does get tedious when it's quiet at night.

Tinnitus seems to be one of those things we just don't know enough about to effectively cure it. Apperantly it can go away in time or improve, but some do seem to have it for years or even life.

I'm just hoping mine improves or fades out after I finish the antibiotics (the consensus on Amoxicillin is its generally safe and not usually known to cause ear issues, but there's always rare cases you can read online about it effecting someon).

I suspect the combo of ear infection and a short but loud music listening has triggered it, that's all I know for now.

If it persists for a full week, ill book in with an ENT doctor and see if anything is physically wrong with my ears. But usually tinnitus is the effect of slightly damaged/upset follicles and nerve endings in the ear which produce a reaction which your brain perceives as actual noise. So It's a mental and physical issue.

Although if the Tinnitus was triggered by the antibiotics alone, or even by eusthacian tube dysfunction from the infection, it's possible that it will improve after the infection clears.

Right now I'm just trying to not think about it too much and go about my life as best I can, thanks for the replies from you guys though!


----------



## seanc6441

Matarro said:


> Sorry to hear about this, that sucks. I hope you have a speedy recovery! I worry about this sometimes myself since I often listen in loud environments which causes me to turn up the volume. (Noise canceling headphones isn't an option, gotta be semi aware of my surroundings.) Opting for podcasts or audio books on those occasions seems like a good idea, they don't get quite as loud.
> 
> Anyway, take care, Sean. Hope you can get back to enjoying your music again soon!



Thank you! 

My advice is to prioritise safe normal audio levels over better clarity in loud enviroments. Because its so easy to push them to very loud levels and not realise it because the background noise is drowning it out, but your ears hear it all.

So just be careful and enjoy responsibly, in the grand scheme of things the most important thing is your health, so make it a priority.


----------



## RobinFood

I've had tinnitus half my life (16 years), ever since a concert. My brain slowly faded it away, but it is always there if I look for it. Stressing about it makes it worst. I don't find it annoying anymore, but if it gets bad, I have the pitch of my tinnitus I can play. It matches perfectly, and whe I stop the file it kind of mutes it.

It doesn't pop though. It doesn't go on or off. It definately gets worst if my ears are clogged, or if the environment is too quiet.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Is yours a constant thing? Is it quiet and unnoticeable usually? Do you also have some sensitivity to certain sounds/frequency when it flares up. Also how about popping in your ear? Mine are popping a lot when I yawn, but that may just be because the infection has inflamed the eusthacian tube which equalises ear pressure. It all seems very complex and hard to pin point whats causing what.
> 
> So far mine has been manageable during the day but sleeping was quiet difficult. It's a very high frequency ringing so it does get tedious when it's quiet at night.
> 
> ...



Mine was also a high frequency, but so much "ringing" as an irritating "tone". Either sound pressure from bass, or irritating highs, could trigger it, and usually with iems.

My feeling is that your tinnitus will be temporary. But, my suggestion is to stay away from iems like this:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/I-I...s-Ear-Bud-In-Ear-Stereo-Rock/32845289619.html

I'm not really sure why I have those on order, and I don't even think that I can blame HungryPanda for buying them lol! Yikes though - my tinnitus is flaring up just thinking about them!


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> *This is a sort of PSA post:*
> 
> Protect your hearing guys. Don't listen too loud. Better to be safe than have to deal with hearing issues.
> 
> ...



i hope you get better soon Sean. a total absence of using iems or earbuds for a couple of days until the ringing subside might help (it does for me). 



waynes world said:


> Hope your ear is better soon! I've also have tinnitus (in my left ear as well). Listening to iems seemed to flare it up, so I quit them and the tinnitus has not flared up again since switching to buds a few years ago. Fwiw!



interestingly, for me personally, i found that using IEMs is a much safer choice than earbuds. 

with earbuds i only use it at home, because it's easy to unconsciously drive it to unsafe volume when going outside to noisy places. even at home if someone turns on the TV, i switch to IEMs  because i know i would increase volume with earbuds to drown the TV. 

i have a constant ringing on my ears (a product of too much band situations without earplugs when i was in high school), although soft and not too prominent, and i can only hear it at night when there's no noise, or i put on IEMs/earplug without any music on. 

and as i found out from many audio meetings, i hear music in a muuuch lower volume than every single person i met. 

i have a sensitive ears that even small jumps in volume hurts my ears. so much so that i bring earplugs everyday. sometimes i put on iems with no music playing when going to the mall with my family, because using pure earplugs looks even weirder 

i also always use earplugs when riding motorcycle. wind and street noises are really bad. 

i consider that constant ringing as my friend and reminder. i use it as a volume benchmark: if i turn up the volume to the point that the ringing is drowned, then it's too loud. 

with earbuds, i can't hear the ringing so much, so i gauge the volume with my own speech volume: if i talk louder than i usually do, then the music is too loud.

also keep in mind, the ears are adaptive to loud volume. one trick that i use to keep in check is after listening to one or two songs, i paused the music (usually at the loudest part of the song) for 20 seconds or so, then i press play again: if i notice the volume jumps too much compared to the ambient noise, then the music is too loud

sorry for the long post, but i do hope it would help others even if it's just a little.


----------



## seanc6441

RobinFood said:


> I've had tinnitus half my life (16 years), ever since a concert. My brain slowly faded it away, but it is always there if I look for it. Stressing about it makes it worst. I don't find it annoying anymore, but if it gets bad, I have the pitch of my tinnitus I can play. It matches perfectly, and whe I stop the file it kind of mutes it.
> 
> It doesn't pop though. It doesn't go on or off. It definately gets worst if my ears are clogged, or if the environment is too quiet.


The popping I believe is just my ear infection clogging up my ear. It wasn't releasing pressure when I yawn etc. But now it has a few times today, so that's a good sign I guess.

You're right, it's like 10 times worse when I stress about it and the quietness does amplify it, but I'm sure I'll find ways to manage it.

Interesting about the music file thing, my try that down the line if it hasn't stopped in a week. Thanks man.


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> i hope you get better soon Sean. a total absence of using iems or earbuds for a couple of days until the ringing subside might help (it does for me).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I really hate that about ears. You set a volume and 5 minutes later it seems a little quiet and you turn it up. After an hour if you compare volumes it's probably 20% louder than your normal starting point.

From now on I'll set a volume and stick with it.

And yes I'll definitely use no earbuds in that ear for a few weeks. I got a BT speaker on low volume or ksc75 on ear for my right ear only if i want to listen to something like tv, youtube or podcast etc, because listening with just one earbud feels weird and I dont really care to listen to music with only one channel...


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 12, 2019)

waynes world said:


> Mine was also a high frequency, but so much "ringing" as an irritating "tone". Either sound pressure from bass, or irritating highs, could trigger it, and usually with iems.
> 
> My feeling is that your tinnitus will be temporary. But, my suggestion is to stay away from iems like this:
> 
> ...


yikes they look like a dyson vacuum for your ears... Probably sound like one too lol

And I hope so, i say ringing as a term so others will understand, mine is definitely just a single tone at a very high pitch, more like whining I guess. And its constant not pulsing or stop start.

It gets louder when I chew or yawn. It changes tone slightly if I put cotton woll in my ear when using the ear oil I was recommended by the doc to make sure my ear is not clogged with wax.


----------



## MelodyMood

How is Nicehck MX 760 or MX500 Earbuds? Are they bassy and darker? Also, I saw there are plenty of Monk+ earbuds with different names and sellers. Is there any Monk+ version which is having much much better bass than original Venture Elec one and also better in terms of build? Also, any version of Seahf AWK-F150C with Mic? Or similar kind of earbud. It looks nice and solid. Not sure about the sound though.


----------



## purplesun

seanc6441 said:


> how about popping in your ear? Mine are popping a lot when I yawn, but that may just be because the infection has inflamed the eusthacian tube which equalises ear pressure. It all seems very complex and hard to pin point whats causing what.



I have slightly clogged left eustachian tube for years. Nothing too serious, maybe a few times a month. Gets more often when I can't crack my left jaw (joint cavitation). The only downside is, I am the only one that's startled hearing a "gunshot" go off in my left ear, and I have to explain to everyone around me what just happened. No associated tinnitus though (touch wood).

Hope yours ear get better.


----------



## 40760 (Feb 12, 2019)

Might I add, ALWAYS to insert your IEMs WITH eartips. I've accidentally punctured my left ear canal with an ER4 earlier in the days, and was only made known by an audiologist years later when I was creating ear moulds for my CIEM.

Now I get more ear wax in the left ear, and I sometimes feel pain when there's drastic pressure change, e.g. when diving more than 1m under water. Anyway hope you'll get well soon Sean, and try not to worry too much about it..


----------



## MelodyMood

MelodyMood said:


> How is Nicehck MX 760 or MX500 Earbuds? Are they bassy and darker? Also, I saw there are plenty of Monk+ earbuds with different names and sellers. Is there any Monk+ version which is having much much better bass than original Venture Elec one and also better in terms of build? Also, any version of Seahf AWK-F150C with Mic? Or similar kind of earbud. It looks nice and solid. Not sure about the sound though.


Any comment or suggestion on my message?


----------



## 40760 (Feb 13, 2019)

MelodyMood said:


> Any comment or suggestion on my message?



How about the FAAEAL Snow Lotus 1.0+?

I've been pretty intrigued by it especially the commemorative edition, but already have too many earbuds under that price range...

You can also try the Kube V1 or V2 from an Indonesia seller on eBay.


----------



## snip3r77

seanc6441 said:


> Is yours a constant thing? Is it quiet and unnoticeable usually? Do you also have some sensitivity to certain sounds/frequency when it flares up. Also how about popping in your ear? Mine are popping a lot when I yawn, but that may just be because the infection has inflamed the eusthacian tube which equalises ear pressure. It all seems very complex and hard to pin point whats causing what.
> 
> So far mine has been manageable during the day but sleeping was quiet difficult. It's a very high frequency ringing so it does get tedious when it's quiet at night.
> 
> ...



Sorry to hear that. I was downed with Sinus Infection and the tinnitus occured at the same time. I went to the ENT, hearing is normal. Dr prescribed anti histamine , antibiotics and nasal spray to clear my infection/blockage. hopefully it'd subside. For the past 2 months, i was only listening to lectures, not very much of music. Hopefully it will clear up too.


----------



## Danneq

seanc6441 said:


> *This is a sort of PSA post:*
> 
> Protect your hearing guys. Don't listen too loud. Better to be safe than have to deal with hearing issues.
> 
> ...



Know your pain, bro...

I've had tinnitus in my left ear for around 20 years. I had a nasty ear infection around 1997/1998 and one evening I got a "pop" sound in the left ear and soon a ringing sound started. It has not gone away but it is tolerable. My hearing is reduced on my left ear as well. I cannot hear crickets on that ear but can hear them on my right ear. About 1 month ago I got an ear infection on my right ear and was worried that the right ear would turn out the same as the left, but it has returned to normal.

I used to play in a metal band but always used ear plugs to protect my hearing. So I blame the ear infection.

I always keep the music relatively low. Not loud enough so that outside sounds are not heard.


----------



## gazzington

I'm enjoying zen l today with my fiio q5 for some black metal. Seem a nice match. Zens seem to like power


----------



## 40760

gazzington said:


> I'm enjoying zen l today with my fiio q5 for some black metal. Seem a nice match. Zens seem to like power



Yes they do, currently running it off a Mojo and it's really great.


----------



## j4100

Hope you recover quickly Sean!

I occasionally get a short burst of a constant tone in my left ear, which is what I assume tinnitus sounds like. Only lasts for 5 seconds or so. I regularly go to gigs, but always wear earplugs (well, at least the last ten years) and never play music too loud through earphones.

One of my colleagues at work sometimes plays his music at lunchtime using cheap IEMs and I can hear exactly what he is listening to, it's that loud.


----------



## Redcarmoose

GREQ said:


> So a few weeks ago I had a little misunderstanding about the Kube (v1) being an essentially 'later variant' of the Cubu (or Cubus).
> @Redcarmoose pointed out that these are actually different buds, and offered to send one out for measuring.
> 
> Upon receiving it, every physical aspect of these buds is identical to the Kube aside from the printed text (and colour ^_^)
> ...



Good work! Now we know!


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> I occasionally get a short burst of a constant tone in my left ear, which is what I assume tinnitus sounds like. Only lasts for 5 seconds or so



That sounds like what I get sometimes.  Left ear...maybe because that is the ear I use for the phone?  Many long conversations over the years.


----------



## j4100 (Feb 13, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> That sounds like what I get sometimes.  Left ear...maybe because that is the ear I use for the phone?  Many long conversations over the years.



Good question. Though I tend to use my phone on the right side rather than the left. Maybe it's a PA blast thing. Just because I have earplugs in, doesn't mean the music isn't already too loud. Gnod at the Rocket 20 festival last year, visceral stuff.

Edit to add earbud content. Currently enjoying some Tengger with my K64s.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

years of attending rock concerts during the 80s and early 90s as well as playing in bands that rehearsed too loud and not wearing plugs has left me with significant tinnitus in probably both ears.  it subsides at times and increases with tension but it's always there. A fairly loud high pitched constant sine wave.  I'm pretty sure it will be my constant companion for the rest of my days...


----------



## subwoof3r

Personally, I don't think I'm listening too loud generally, on my FiiO E10K DAC/AMP, when I'm listening to my EMX500's, gain switch to OFF, my volume knob is at 0.5 (max is 8).
That is sad stories 
Best way is to not listen loud, this way we can perceive all micro details much more easily in our tracks.


----------



## Chris674

I've always been concerned with ringing and the possibility of losing my hearing. Sitting in the middle of bands and orchestras for most of my life...I kind of expect it at some time. I have a fellow musician friend who has a loud ringing in both of his ears and they are terribly out of tune with each other. Seriously ruined his life and his career.


----------



## Willber

I know that this is a serious subject and I feel sympathy for the sufferers, but isn't it taking the thread too far off topic?
No offence intended and feel free to shout me down (not too loudly, though! ).


----------



## Chris674

Willber said:


> I know that this is a serious subject and I feel sympathy for the sufferers, but isn't it taking the thread too far off topic?
> No offence intended and feel free to shout me down (not too loudly, though! ).


It's a relevant reminder to everyone that enjoys music so close to their ears. To bring it back to topic though...I recently got my first pair of Vidos and have been seriously enjoying them. Continuing my recabling adventure, I recabled my pair with a old cable I never use. It was so satisfying cutting off the memory wire hooks. I'm currently ordering the gaudiest cable I can find. Going to make myself some jewelery Vidos.


----------



## ValSilva

seanc6441 said:


> *This is a sort of PSA post:*
> 
> Protect your hearing guys. Don't listen too loud. Better to be safe than have to deal with hearing issues.
> 
> ...


Tks Sean, for your words! I'll be more careful with the volume.
I hope you get better soon!


----------



## Chris674

Sabia V6 are back for sale by the same eBay seller as the Kubes. He's got standard, Silver plated cable and mmcx versions. I said I wasn't going to buy anymore... I lied.


----------



## HungryPanda

had a productive day as I made a 150 ohm MX500 earbud and recabled a couple of Sony Ericsson MH300


----------



## waynes world

Chris674 said:


> Sabia V6 are back for sale by the same eBay seller as the Kubes. He's got standard, Silver plated cable and mmcx versions. I said I wasn't going to buy anymore... I lied.



mmcx version - cool! I'm not going to buy anymore. I hope I'm not lying lol


----------



## bonson

I finally ordered the Qlabs Athena. To me signature is dark, good amount of bass for a yuin shell, mids very good and high a little recessed. Soundstage is very good too.


----------



## gazzington

gazzington said:


> I'm enjoying zen l today with my fiio q5 for some black metal. Seem a nice match. Zens seem to like power


What other iems would you people rec for black metal?


----------



## rahmish

HungryPanda said:


> had a productive day as I made a 150 ohm MX500 earbud and recabled a couple of Sony Ericsson MH300


Looks great! How is mh300? I think it's one of couple Sony ericsson what I haven't tried


----------



## j4100

bonson said:


> I finally ordered the Qlabs Athena. To me signature is dark, good amount of bass for a yuin shell, mids very good and high a little recessed. Soundstage is very good too.



Been thinking about those. Sounds good.


----------



## HungryPanda (Feb 13, 2019)

rahmish said:


> Looks great! How is mh300? I think it's one of couple Sony ericsson what I haven't tried


The MH300 is my favourite of them all, great sound, not your usual bassy Sony sound, good soundstage and as can be had for around £3 well worth it. The easiest to recable by far as the shell totally opens up and the drivers are held in by a rubber ring.


----------



## letlive (Feb 13, 2019)

Chris674 said:


> Sabia V6 are back for sale by the same eBay seller as the Kubes. He's got standard, Silver plated cable and mmcx versions. I said I wasn't going to buy anymore... I lied.


Can you provide a link please?
Edit: Found it.


----------



## rahmish

HungryPanda said:


> The MH300 is my favourite of them all, great sound, not your usual bassy Sony sound, good soundstage and as can be had for around £3 well worth it. The easiest to recable by far as the shell totally opens up and the drivers are held in by a rubber ring.


Looks that I just found new recabling project target!


----------



## MelodyMood

palestofwhite said:


> How about the FAAEAL Snow Lotus 1.0+?
> 
> I've been pretty intrigued by it especially the commemorative edition, but already have too many earbuds under that price range...
> 
> You can also try the Kube V1 or V2 from an Indonesia seller on eBay.


Sure. Let me have a look. How is the Sound signature of these earbuds? Darker and Bassy with smooth treble? I saw there is Snow Lotus 1 and 2.0 is also there?


----------



## Willber

MelodyMood said:


> Sure. Let me have a look. How is the Sound signature of these earbuds? Darker and Bassy with smooth treble? I saw there is Snow Lotus 1 and 2.0 is also there?


The SLs and Kubes don't have mics.


----------



## MisterMudd (Feb 14, 2019)

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> years of attending rock concerts during the 80s and early 90s as well as playing in bands that rehearsed too loud and not wearing plugs has left me with significant tinnitus in probably both ears.  it subsides at times and increases with tension but it's always there. A fairly loud high pitched constant sine wave.  I'm pretty sure it will be my constant companion for the rest of my days...


Same here. Left ear only. Exacerbated in the early 90's when a plane I was on was not decompressed and they opened the plane door at the terminal. Both ears were seriously pressure slammed but my right ear recovered. High-pitched ringing is there all the time, but I've just learned to acknowledge that it is what it is. Maybe someday before we give up the ghost they will come up with a cure.

Edit: removed transport provider name.


----------



## chinmie

MisterMudd said:


> Maybe someday before we give up the ghost they will come up with a cure.



time to start saving up for that cybernetic ears


----------



## MelodyMood

Willber said:


> The SLs and Kubes don't have mics.


Yes. Just noticed. Any idea about Iris earbuds? I also don't see any earbud with mic which is having high impedence. And how abouot different versions of Monk+ like from Hengrui or other brand?


----------



## Willber (Feb 13, 2019)

Duplicate post deleted


----------



## MelodyMood

Any TY Hi-Z series earbud which is having high impedence, bassy anbd warm and with Mic too. And not too expensive


----------



## nick n (Feb 13, 2019)

Regular cable Sabia EX 6 ( V6 ) says it has a mic.
"*STANDARD = Usual V6 with mic."
*
Yep just checked mine does.

if you are after high impedance maybe grab  some of the impedance adapters of various values which you can remove later if it sounds no good for a particular bud, and also use for other things.
*
*
It says"USUAL" in the description, but there's nothing usual about the sound  *
*


----------



## Willber

MelodyMood said:


> Yes. Just noticed. Any idea about Iris earbuds? I also don't see any earbud with mic which is having high impedence. And how abouot different versions of Monk+ like from Hengrui or other brand?


Most buds with mics are for use with mobile phones so are unlikely to have high impedance.

I'm not sure what you mean about "different versions of Monk+". Do you have links to some examples?


----------



## MelodyMood

Is VE Monk+, Hengrui Monk+ or Ollivian Monk+ all are different or what? Any idea?


----------



## MelodyMood

Willber said:


> Most buds with mics are for use with mobile phones so are unlikely to have high impedance.
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean about "different versions of Monk+". Do you have links to some examples?


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ven...8e-4524-aa17-03169443caab&transAbTest=ae803_5

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MON...8e-4524-aa17-03169443caab&transAbTest=ae803_5

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ven...57-4fd5-8061-c7e94031e25b&transAbTest=ae803_5

Like these I was talking about. If you type Monk Plus in AE, you will see many Monk+ earbuds. I wanetd to know if they all are same or different but same name because Monk+ were popular at one time?


----------



## Willber

I see what you mean now. They all look genuine from the pictures so I presume they are sold under licence. AFAIK they are only made by VE.


----------



## CasstardPie

@MelodyMood Only Venture Electronics manufactures the Monk+. The other "versions" like the Ollivan one are just store branding for the product resellers. Do be warned though, VE will not honour warranty if you buy products from unauthorised resellers, and the only authorised seller on Aliexpress is the VE official store. 

There are official versions of the Monk+, such as the Monk+ SPC, the Massdrop exclusives, Bloody Orange etc, but with the exception of the SPC are usually limited runs

Additionally if you want a Monk+ with a mic, you may purchase one from the official store


----------



## MelodyMood

CasstardPie said:


> @MelodyMood Only Venture Electronics manufactures the Monk+. The other "versions" like the Ollivan one are just store branding for the product resellers. Do be warned though, VE will not honour warranty if you buy products from unauthorised resellers, and the only authorised seller on Aliexpress is the VE official store.
> 
> There are official versions of the Monk+, such as the Monk+ SPC, the Massdrop exclusives, Bloody Orange etc, but with the exception of the SPC are usually limited runs
> 
> Additionally if you want a Monk+ with a mic, you may purchase one from the official store


Ok. I actually bought Monk+ with Mic some time ago but it did not have Bass at all and very flat sound and also it broke down in 2 months only. That's why I was wondering if other brands are having better quality or not?


----------



## 40760 (Feb 13, 2019)

MelodyMood said:


> Ok. I actually bought Monk+ with Mic some time ago but it did not have Bass at all and very flat sound and also it broke down in 2 months only. That's why I was wondering if other brands are having better quality or not?



As mentioned by others, models with mic usually have lower impedance for them to work better with mobile devices. And I don't think adding an impedance adapter will be an option as it'll take away the mic function. The highest impedance earbud with mic I have are the Monk Plus at 64ohms. If you're still not satisfied with its bass, then I recommend a pair of Willsound MK2 with MMCX connector and get a cheap MMCX cable with mic from AE. Those are lower impedance but the bass are great, and of course they will cost more.

I have not tried the Sabia V6, but the standard version has a mic too and looks pretty affordable. I'm actually tempted to get the MMCX version that is without mic.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 13, 2019)

Danneq said:


> Know your pain, bro...
> 
> I've had tinnitus in my left ear for around 20 years. I had a nasty ear infection around 1997/1998 and one evening I got a "pop" sound in the left ear and soon a ringing sound started. It has not gone away but it is tolerable. My hearing is reduced on my left ear as well. I cannot hear crickets on that ear but can hear them on my right ear. About 1 month ago I got an ear infection on my right ear and was worried that the right ear would turn out the same as the left, but it has returned to normal.
> 
> ...


Yeah it was probably the infection for me also. Either way I'm probably going to adjust to it if it doesn't fade out soon. It was a bit easier today, although sleeping is still proving a challange.

Anyways, on the plus side I seem to have full hearing volume levels on both ears now, the left still seems a little sensitive and it's still a little pressurized but I'm sure once my health is back to normal and I have some time to adjust it'll be ok.

Thanks for sharing your story danneq! Means a lot that other people are doing ok despite the condition.


----------



## seanc6441

snip3r77 said:


> Sorry to hear that. I was downed with Sinus Infection and the tinnitus occured at the same time. I went to the ENT, hearing is normal. Dr prescribed anti histamine , antibiotics and nasal spray to clear my infection/blockage. hopefully it'd subside. For the past 2 months, i was only listening to lectures, not very much of music. Hopefully it will clear up too.


Sorry about that buddy, hope all goes well in the long run!

So how long ago was this and how is it now?


----------



## seanc6441

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> years of attending rock concerts during the 80s and early 90s as well as playing in bands that rehearsed too loud and not wearing plugs has left me with significant tinnitus in probably both ears.  it subsides at times and increases with tension but it's always there. A fairly loud high pitched constant sine wave.  I'm pretty sure it will be my constant companion for the rest of my days...


How are you holding up with it, do you learn to deal with it? Does you brain 'tune out' that sound until you focus on it?

For all our sake I hope it gets easier with time and good mental management.

For the future I hope scientists find a solution! I can only imagine how many musicians, soldiers, construction workers etc must experience it.


----------



## seanc6441

By the way sorry for getting off topic all but I do think ear health is relevant talk when we do rely on it so much, i felt like if even just a few people read these posts and decide to protect their ears better, that would make it worthwhile!

I promise the earbuds chatter will commence again sometimes
 soon from myself


----------



## seanc6441

Chris674 said:


> I've always been concerned with ringing and the possibility of losing my hearing. Sitting in the middle of bands and orchestras for most of my life...I kind of expect it at some time. I have a fellow musician friend who has a loud ringing in both of his ears and they are terribly out of tune with each other. Seriously ruined his life and his career.


Earplugs are a must for these environments where you really cannot control the volume. Hope you lucked out and stay healthy, you can always look after your ears from now on to minimize the risk!


----------



## MelodyMood

palestofwhite said:


> As mentioned by others, models with mic usually have lower impedance for them to work better with mobile devices. And I don't think adding an impedance adapter will be an option as it'll take away the mic function. The highest impedance earbud with mic I have are the Monk Plus at 64ohms. If you're still not satisfied with its bass, then I recommend a pair of Willsound MK2 with MMCX connector and get a cheap MMCX cable with mic from AE. Those are lower impedance but the bass are great, and of course they will cost more.
> 
> I have not tried the Sabia V6, but the standard version has a mic too and looks pretty affordable. I'm actually tempted to get the MMCX version that is without mic.


Thanks Brother. Let me have a look at that. I wish Monk+ add some more bass. It almost lacks it actually.


----------



## Willber

MelodyMood said:


> Thanks Brother. Let me have a look at that. I wish Monk+ add some more bass. It almost lacks it actually.


Is there any particular reason you want high impedance?


----------



## MelodyMood

I guess not many options are there for my taste. 1st is budget which I don't want too expensive but up to $15-20; 2nd, good bass and warm sound; 3rd smooth but clear treble and last and important is with Mic :| 

I already have or tried these: Monk+, Yincrow X6, TP16, Edifier P180 and **** DIY EMX500. Need one step ahead earbud but cannot spend too much like you people.


----------



## MelodyMood

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...ae-47b9-b020-b1a88fda005c&transAbTest=ae803_5

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...ae-47b9-b020-b1a88fda005c&transAbTest=ae803_5

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Luc...ae-47b9-b020-b1a88fda005c&transAbTest=ae803_5

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.11.337c769cJ3Et8m

Has anyone bought any from the above? Which is the better version?  How is NICEHCK MX500 or FENGRU EMX500S?


----------



## Willber

MelodyMood said:


> I guess not many options are there for my taste. 1st is budget which I don't want too expensive but up to $15-20; 2nd, good bass and warm sound; 3rd smooth but clear treble and last and important is with Mic :|
> 
> I already have or tried these: Monk+, Yincrow X6, TP16, Edifier P180 and **** DIY EMX500. Need one step ahead earbud but cannot spend too much like you people.


I'm sticking to my recommendation I gave in response to your first post:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2663#post-14773570


----------



## RobinFood

MelodyMood said:


> I guess not many options are there for my taste. 1st is budget which I don't want too expensive but up to $15-20; 2nd, good bass and warm sound; 3rd smooth but clear treble and last and important is with Mic :|
> 
> I already have or tried these: Monk+, Yincrow X6, TP16, Edifier P180 and **** DIY EMX500. Need one step ahead earbud but cannot spend too much like you people.



I have a monk plus and don't feel it responds well to eq at the top or bottom. 

Honestly, it sounds like you mighy enjoy the toneking to200 with an mmcx cable that has a mic. It would be twice your budget though.


----------



## CasstardPie

Anyone have a BlackBud from Bisoy Siosan? Looks really good! I wanted to get one but he's got a lot of orders so I gotta wait


----------



## seanc6441

MelodyMood said:


> Thanks Brother. Let me have a look at that. I wish Monk+ add some more bass. It almost lacks it actually.


Mk2 mmcx and a separate mic cable is what you're after, but you will need to stretch you budget a lot for it (as the shipping is more pricy from Willsound than on aliexpress)


----------



## Willber

The MS16 I recommended is $6.
The Sabia also recommended is $10.
There is no need to go over budget IMO.


----------



## Dabbaranks

palestofwhite said:


> I have not tried the Sabia V6, but the standard version has a mic too and looks pretty affordable. I'm actually tempted to get the MMCX version that is without mic.



If you’re thinking of getting the mmcx version from the kube seller on eBay, he told me mmcx version comes with a cable with a mic. I was also thinking of the mmcx vers so this made it an easy decision for me to just get the silver plated vers and some kube v2s, I still haven’t gotten my kube v1s I ordered though 

Also I asked if I could just get the mmcx vers without a cable and that’s a no for now.


----------



## MelodyMood

Willber said:


> I'm sticking to my recommendation I gave in response to your first post:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2663#post-14773570


Ok. I have not ruled it out but might need to have a look at any review. Do you know if there is a any?


----------



## 40760

Dabbaranks said:


> If you’re thinking of getting the mmcx version from the kube seller on eBay, he told me mmcx version comes with a cable with a mic. I was also thinking of the mmcx vers so this made it an easy decision for me to just get the silver plated vers and some kube v2s, I still haven’t gotten my kube v1s I ordered though
> 
> Also I asked if I could just get the mmcx vers without a cable and that’s a no for now.



I must have misread the item descriptions and that makes the fixed cable version of the Pearl a no-brainer actually.

Unfortunately the seller couldn't give me a comparison between the Pearl and Willsound MK2, for me to make a decision.

I'm actually looking at either the MK2 or MK150 of the Willsound with MMCX and thought maybe the Pearl came about the right timing...


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> Mk2 mmcx and a separate mic cable is what you're after, but you will need to stretch you budget a lot for it (as the shipping is more pricy from Willsound than on aliexpress)



I too think that this is will be the safest choice, if the budget can be stretched.


----------



## Dabbaranks

palestofwhite said:


> I must have misread the item descriptions and that makes the fixed cable version of the Pearl a no-brainer actually.
> 
> Unfortunately the seller couldn't give me a comparison between the Pearl and Willsound MK2, for me to make a decision.
> 
> I'm actually looking at either the MK2 or MK150 of the Willsound with MMCX and thought maybe the Pearl came about the right timing...



Haha we’re looking at the same stuff, I was told by Adhi from willsound I couldn’t order the mk150. Not sure if it’s just mmcx (what I asked) or not so better ask yourself for confirmation.

I have mk2’s with the vjc cable and they are amazing never feels lacking in the bass, however I don’t have sabias or heard them yet so can’t provide a comparison. But you really can’t go wrong with the mk2s. 

Currently trying to get the mk1s mmcx with vjc cable whenever they get back to me though.


----------



## 40760 (Feb 14, 2019)

Dabbaranks said:


> Haha we’re looking at the same stuff, I was told by Adhi from willsound I couldn’t order the mk150. Not sure if it’s just mmcx (what I asked) or not so better ask yourself for confirmation.
> 
> I have mk2’s with the vjc cable and they are amazing never feels lacking in the bass, however I don’t have sabias or heard them yet so can’t provide a comparison. But you really can’t go wrong with the mk2s.
> 
> Currently trying to get the mk1s mmcx with vjc cable whenever they get back to me though.



I've had the MK2 before and thought of trying maybe the MK150. I guess maybe he ran out of parts, but MMCX for MK150 is possible.


----------



## Willber

MelodyMood said:


> Ok. I have not ruled it out but might need to have a look at any review. Do you know if there is a any?


This is what prompted me to buy them:
https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/9hbi0c/more_earbuds_yincrow_x6_headroom_ms16/


----------



## snip3r77

seanc6441 said:


> Sorry about that buddy, hope all goes well in the long run!
> 
> So how long ago was this and how is it now?


It’s about a month already . I’m still recvering from my infection. It’s tapering though. Ringing still there. I didn’t want to think too much about it, I heard just let it be and less stress will help in recovering. How is your condition now? Still the same ?


----------



## acroyear

I'm waiting for my Toneking TO600 earbuds to arrive.  I'm planning to use them with a balanced cable and a Cayin N5iiS.  Anyone have experience with the To600's unamped?  Will my combo work since they're 600 ohms?


----------



## mbwilson111

Wow seems the Sabia Pearl with the fixed cable is sold out now.  Ordered two last night... one for me and one for my husband.  It was the only version with no mic which is what we both prefer.  Now we wait....


----------



## HungryPanda

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Lin...le-Cable-MMCX-Earbuds-PK1-A8/32867662218.html   any cable with mic and you are good to go A8 for bass


----------



## waynes world

MelodyMood said:


> I guess not many options are there for my taste. 1st is budget which I don't want too expensive but up to $15-20; 2nd, good bass and warm sound; 3rd smooth but clear treble and last and important is with Mic :|
> 
> I already have or tried these: Monk+, Yincrow X6, TP16, Edifier P180 and **** DIY EMX500. Need one step ahead earbud but cannot spend too much like you people.



Too bad for you that the Yincrow RW9 doesn't have a mic, because otherwise it would have made you very happy (especially when they were $15).



Dabbaranks said:


> If you’re thinking of getting the mmcx version from the kube seller on eBay, he told me mmcx version comes with a cable with a mic. I was also thinking of the mmcx vers so this made it an easy decision for me to just get the silver plated vers and some kube v2s, I still haven’t gotten my kube v1s I ordered though
> 
> Also I asked if I could just get the mmcx vers without a cable and that’s a no for now.



mmcx version of the kubes? Very interesting!



mbwilson111 said:


> Wow seems the Sabia Pearl with the fixed cable is sold out now.  Ordered two last night... one for me and one for my husband.  It was the only version with no mic which is what we both prefer.  Now we wait....



Glad you snagged them!



HungryPanda said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Lin...le-Cable-MMCX-Earbuds-PK1-A8/32867662218.html   any cable with mic and you are good to go A8 for bass



I hate this place!


----------



## Dabbaranks

waynes world said:


> mmcx version of the kubes? Very interesting!



I got regular kube v2s! Didn’t mean to confuse!


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 14, 2019)

Btw guys I'll post about this in more detail in the coming weeks but anyone with the willsound mk2 and who is willing to open up the earbud, there is potential to tune the bass to ones liking. I found you can get a more linear and cleaner bass response with a very simple mod. Which involves placing tuning foam in the middle driver bass port (the mk2 driver is awesome as it has a central bass port so the membrane central dome is ported, this seems common amoung headphones to tune bass but not amoung earbuds).

Simply applying a small amount of earbud sponge into this port tightens the bass notably in the mid bass region, but keeps the sub bass extension.

Once I work out the small nuances I'll post more about it. Needless to say it's some of the most impressive bass I've heard in earbuds with this mod, 100% bass head levels but still quality and well textured.

As I understand it, the idea is to balance the acoustic impedance between the outer membrane ports and the central membrane port, for optimal driver performance, so you may find yourself changing the venting on the outer ports too. Although admittedly it's probably impossible to balance the airflow by ear and probably requires sound engineers with accurate measuring tools to achieve the optimal result. It doesn't mean you cannot experiment though!


snip3r77 said:


> It’s about a month already . I’m still recvering from my infection. It’s tapering though. Ringing still there. I didn’t want to think too much about it, I heard just let it be and less stress will help in recovering. How is your condition now? Still the same ?


 I'll say it's improving slowly too. Ringing aside, my hearing has returned fully, the sensitivity to everyday sounds has reduced drastically so I'm not being hurt just listening to people speak! My other symptoms are slowly clearing up too, pressure-popping is reduced.

Other than the actual ringing, which I'm finding a little easier to deal with by the day, I feel better than just a few days ago.

So it's positive news overall, more time should help both of us.


----------



## waynes world (Feb 14, 2019)

Throw on your favorite buds! I saw Brandi Carlile's performance of "The Joke" on the Grammy's, and was suitably blown away. If you can find that video, watch it.

Here's a different video of her doing the same song.


Edit: this performance is closer to the Grammy performance:


Also, H.E.R.'s peformance of "Hard Place" was pretty impressive as well:
https://www.grammy.com/grammys/videos/her-hard-place-2019-grammys-performance

I hadn't heard of either artist before, but I have now!


----------



## Dabbaranks

waynes world said:


> Throw on your favorite buds! I saw Brandi Carlile's performance of "The Joke" on the Grammy's, and was suitably blown away. If you can find that video, watch it.
> 
> Here's a different video of her doing the same song.
> 
> ...





H.E.R. Is amazinggg she also has a tiny desk concert with NPR 

Highly recommend dvsn’s tiny desk concert too


----------



## Carrow

Got some money to throw around and I'm looking for a dark-sounding earbud with a Vido-esque signature now I don't have anything comparable in my earbud stable. Limit would be $50 but I'm sure I can get an impactful, dark-trending bud with plenty of bass for less than that. All recs welcome!


----------



## seanc6441

Carrow said:


> Got some money to throw around and I'm looking for a dark-sounding earbud with a Vido-esque signature now I don't have anything comparable in my earbud stable. Limit would be $50 but I'm sure I can get an impactful, dark-trending bud with plenty of bass for less than that. All recs welcome!


Kube bud with full foam, warm bassy, smooth and slightly dark. Of course if you use thin foams its not dark and very balanced.

I find it better than the vido overall. Smoother and better balance in the vocals.


----------



## Willber

seanc6441 said:


> Kube bud with full foam, warm bassy, smooth and slightly dark. Of course if you use thin foams its not dark and very balanced.
> 
> I find it better than the vido overall. Smoother and better balance in the vocals.


I agree with that. Larger soundstage as well.


----------



## MelodyMood

RobinFood said:


> I have a monk plus and don't feel it responds well to eq at the top or bottom.
> 
> Honestly, it sounds like you mighy enjoy the toneking to200 with an mmcx cable that has a mic. It would be twice your budget though.


Yeah. Monk+ s not that goof actually. May be over hyped because of price. Bud with MMCX cable are way to expensive for me. Cannot afford them and then on top of that buy separate cable with mic which will be another $10 extra.


----------



## MelodyMood

waynes world said:


> Too bad for you that the Yincrow RW9 doesn't have a mic, because otherwise it would have made you very happy (especially when they were $15).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah. RW9 should have Mic but it has not so no use for me  Any idea about NICEHCK 760 or MX500 series? Any idea about sound signature?


----------



## Chris674 (Feb 14, 2019)

Carrow said:


> Got some money to throw around and I'm looking for a dark-sounding earbud with a Vido-esque signature now I don't have anything comparable in my earbud stable. Limit would be $50 but I'm sure I can get an impactful, dark-trending bud with plenty of bass for less than that. All recs welcome!


The Kube is great! I'd buy that and be happy. It's certainly a unique sounding earbud. Someone in another forum
asked about a comparison between that Vido and the FAAEAL Rosemary. After some listening between them I'd say that would be a nice upgrade. They have VERY similar signatures but the Rosemary is more refined in every way. Soundstage is not as wide but instrument separation is excellent and the grain in the Vidos mid-range and treble is no where to be found (even though that's one of the things I like about the Vido.) They are 150 ohm drivers though and they really need that power. If the source isn't up to it they become bloated in the lower mid-range with NO treble.


----------



## nick n

ebay has a white Vido with a Mic ...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vido-Earbu...42811d652:m:mBE0HiPz11KJYT_z4RzsLlA:rk:1:pf:0
 also an EMX500 DIY blue with a mic.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/EMX500-In-...ae22f12d5:m:mYVvcNoGGoqvqYsHEqxnV1w:rk:1:pf:0
Sabia original  obviously mentioned too with mic.


----------



## Chris674 (Feb 14, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Wow seems the Sabia Pearl with the fixed cable is sold out now.  Ordered two last night... one for me and one for my husband.  It was the only version with no mic which is what we both prefer.  Now we wait....


When I asked the seller about the Sabia a few weeks back he mentioned that this cable was a real special upgrade that really improved the sound. I did spend a couple of minutes thinking about the mmcx option but I think we all made the right choice.


----------



## waynes world

MelodyMood said:


> Yeah. RW9 should have Mic but it has not so no use for me  Any idea about NICEHCK 760 or MX500 series? Any idea about sound signature?



The $16 760 are fine (you will hear various opinions), and the $29 version are great.


----------



## waynes world

Chris674 said:


> When I asked the seller about the Sabia a few weeks back he mentioned that this cable was a real special upgrade thrat reallyimproved the sound. I did spend a couple of minutes thinking about the mmcx option but I think we all made the right choice.



Why didn't you tell me this _before_ they were sold out lol!


----------



## Chris674

waynes world said:


> Why didn't you tell me this _before_ they were sold out lol!


He also told me that he only had a few (I think he said six) and that some he was going to mod with the cable and some mmcx. I stalked his listening multiple times a day waiting for them. I figured I'd wait until I secured my own set. Lol.


----------



## nick n (Feb 14, 2019)

Whichever new cabled one you get, there was some feedback and testing with the local group/community there so it's a safe bet either way.
I always treat connectors with *Caig DeOxit D5* anyhow ( even available in small cheaper "wipes" pad form if someone wants to try it out, but the stuff is invaluable) and unless one goes crazy swapping out all the time likely not an issue.


----------



## MelodyMood

waynes world said:


> The $16 760 are fine (you will hear various opinions), and the $29 version are great.


760 is better than MX500 from NICEHCK in sound quality? Thumping Bass and Smooth sound?


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> The $16 760 are fine (you will hear various opinions), and the $29 version are great.



I don't know why those say 760 in the description.  Those are not mx760 shells.  They are Beyerdynamic DP100 shells..with grahene drivers inside of course.


----------



## Willber

@MelodyMood 
You asked for a review of the MS16. I posted it here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2670#post-14778863


----------



## waynes world

MelodyMood said:


> 760 is better than MX500 from NICEHCK in sound quality? Thumping Bass and Smooth sound?



Are you talking about either of these?

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32839988234.html

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32821104494.html

Also, how much of  V signature do you like?


----------



## Carrow

Chris674 said:


> The Kube is great! I'd buy that and be happy. It's certainly a unique sounding earbud. Someone in another forum
> asked about a comparison between that Vido and the FAAEAL Rosemary. After some listening between them I'd say that would be a nice upgrade. They have VERY similar signatures but the Rosemary is more refined in every way. Soundstage is not as wide but instrument separation is excellent and the grain in the Vidos mid-range and treble is no where to be found (even though that's one of the things I like about the Vido.) They are 150 ohm drivers though and they really need that power. If the source isn't up to it they become bloated in the lower mid-range with NO treble.



I have an LG V20 so that'll trip the high impedance mode for sure. Has had no trouble with 150ohm buds in the past. Might get that and @seanc6441's recommendation, I'd like to try both but maybe the Rosemary can give a bit more oomph! Thanks!


----------



## mbwilson111

Carrow said:


> I have an LG V20 so that'll trip the high impedance mode for sure. Has had no trouble with 150ohm buds in the past. Might get that and @seanc6441's recommendation, I'd like to try both but maybe the Rosemary can give a bit more oomph! Thanks!



The Rosemary is very good.   All of my Faaeals are.  Actually most of my buds are.  Tonight I am enjoying the Sony MH300 that my husband @HungryPanda recabled for me.


----------



## MelodyMood

Willber said:


> @MelodyMood
> You asked for a review of the MS16. I posted it here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2670#post-14778863


Thanks Buddy. Going to Read it in a while


----------



## viatraco

Is it significally upgrade from SL+ commemorative to SL 64ohm balanced 2,5 using Radsone ES100? 
Maybe Rosemary will be better choice ?


----------



## Chris674

viatraco said:


> Is it significally upgrade from SL+ commemorative to SL 64ohm balanced 2,5 using Radsone ES100?
> Maybe Rosemary will be better choice ?


Not sure about the balanced difference but there are vast differences between models. I thought that Rosemary and Narcissus were just higher ohm versions of the SL. Nope they are different. Rosemary is a lot more warm sounding (bass emphasis) than the SL. From what I read of Narcissus, it's way different also. I've got SL 1.0 (and 1.0+) and Rosemary and looking forward to Narcissus in the next month or so. May even buy those first batch FAAEAL's .Great brand.


----------



## MelodyMood

waynes world said:


> Are you talking about either of these?
> 
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32839988234.html
> 
> ...



I was talking about : 
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.10.6507769c80D9Yt

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.12.6507769c80D9Yt

And Also: 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...lgo_pvid=98b5d22d-77df-47ab-b882-9095eb8c41b4

and how about 32S from this review. Though, I don;t see 32s available annmore so 32 is good too?:
</B>https://www.head-fi.org/threads/introduction-to-ty-hi-z-earbud-family-mega-review.831374/</B>


----------



## Willber

It's official - the Kube v1 is now my favourite of all my earphones. I prefer them even to my AKG 702 which cost 25x as much. There is true greatness in these silly little orange 'toys'. I bow down to Mr Kube, whoever he is. 
(ymmv)


----------



## nick n

^ awesome !

Be really fun to locate some of the tiny KUBE MP3 players, as limited as they might be it would make for a perfectly _authentic listening experience_.


----------



## HungryPanda

earbuds I love but had to put on my Denon AH-D7200's tonight just for the great Roger Hodgson


----------



## Willber

nick n said:


> ^ awesome !
> 
> Be really fun to locate some of the tiny KUBE MP3 players, as limited as they might be it would make for a perfectly _authentic listening experience_.


That's true. And of course the next question I need to ask is, are the Kube v2 even better? (I have a set sitting in my ebay shopping cart).


----------



## waynes world

MelodyMood said:


> I was talking about :
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.10.6507769c80D9Yt
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.12.6507769c80D9Yt
> ...



Out of those, I would go for the kube 1! 

The 760's are okay, but I think you can do better. I am not familiar with the others. 

You should get a Radsone ES100 bluetooth player so that you can get buds that don't have mics, because then you'd have so many awesome choices


----------



## Chris674

Willber said:


> It's official - the Kube v1 is now my favourite of all my earphones. I prefer them even to my AKG 702 which cost 25x as much. There is true greatness in these silly little orange 'toys'. I bow down to Mr Kube, whoever he is.
> (ymmv)


Question is... How do we make them last forever?


----------



## Willber

HungryPanda said:


> earbuds I love but had to put on my Denon AH-D7200's tonight just for the great Roger Hodgson


They look nice, but I've given up pursuing 'serious' headgear. I just get more pleasure from finding cheap gems.


----------



## Willber

waynes world said:


> Out of those, I would go for the kube 1!


So would I. No mic, though.


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> earbuds I love but had to put on my Denon AH-D7200's tonight just for the great Roger Hodgson




Hodgson is indeed great! And I bet those D7200's sound fantastic


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> So would I. No mic, though.



So...maybe the Sabia V6 as that does have a mic.  I have not heard it...my silver cable one is on its way but I do trust those who have recommended it.


----------



## nick n (Feb 14, 2019)

Chris674 said:


> Question is... How do we make them last forever?



This is why I got "some" spares.
With enough left to send out as a surprise  for my old friend's entire family lol
Which will be fun since they will likely laugh at them when they first see them ....and be totally unprepared for the dumbfounding listening session after they try them out lol.

*Kube 2* are a bit warmer -anolog sounding , maybe more bulkier sound  with a touch taken down off the top iirc. Still quite large sound though... Can't recall what i said earlier about them. Should be similar description.
The signature takes a minute or two to for me adjust to, and assuming you use a shirt clip and toy with various foams can get quite crazy.
_ However best to default to mbwilson and waynesworld  ( and mochill if he pops in ) on that front. _


----------



## Willber

Chris674 said:


> Question is... How do we make them last forever?


Buy more, I suppose.

Having said that, along the way I have bought a few spares when I thought I'd found my ideal earphones. They include:

KZ ATE (x2)
VE Monk+ (x3)
TY HP32 (x3)
Philips SHE3800 (x2)
Sony E808+ (x3)
AAW N1 (x2)
UiiSii CM5 (x2)
QKZ W1 Pro (x3)
Koss KSC75 (x3)
Vido (x3)
Snow Lotus 1.0 (x2)

And each time I've found something better. I am an idiot.


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> So...maybe the Sabia V6 as that does have a mic.  I have not heard it...my silver cable one is on its way but I do trust those who have recommended it.



Right! I was going there but got distracted.

@MelodyMood, the Sabia V6 has awesome bass. They are slighty V shaped, meaning that the highs are present (not harsh though), so you'd have to be okay with that.  But I'd just get them if I were you.

Btw, I don't have the silver cable version, but I have it from a reliable source that they are more transparent, detailed and revealing, whereas the regular cable could be described as being "more analog" sounding.


----------



## Chris674

Willber said:


> Buy more, I suppose.
> 
> Having said that, along the way I have bought a few spares when I thought I'd found my ideal earphones. They include:
> 
> ...


Speaking of those Sony E808+. I bought some about two months ago. I am convinced I got some fakes. They are awful. I keep trying them out to see if I'm just mishearing but they are NOT enjoyable. That onviously isn't your view of them.


----------



## waynes world

Willber said:


> And each time I've found something better. I am an idiot.



LOL! Since there are so many good buds coming out all of the time, I think there's a few idiots out there!

(*cough* not me of course *cough*)


----------



## Willber

Chris674 said:


> Speaking of those Sony E808+. I bought some about two months ago. I am convinced I got some fakes. They are awful. I keep trying them out to see if I'm just mishearing but they are NOT enjoyable. That onviously isn't your view of them.


No, they are one of my oldies that I still use occasionally, I like them a lot. They do benefit from a fair bit of burning IME but I have heard that there are fakes out there.


----------



## Willber

waynes world said:


> LOL! Since there are so many good buds coming out all of the time, I think there's a few idiots out there!
> 
> (*cough* not me of course *cough*)


Yeah, they should rename this forum to Nutters United or something.


----------



## Carrow

seanc6441 said:


> Kube bud with full foam, warm bassy, smooth and slightly dark. Of course if you use thin foams its not dark and very balanced.
> 
> I find it better than the vido overall. Smoother and better balance in the vocals.



So where would I get these, and which version?


----------



## Ira Delphic

The only thing holding me back on the Kube is the price of the earbud is the same as the price of the shipping. I know this makes no sense because the overall value has to be considered. Spoiled by the cheap shipping from China!


----------



## MelodyMood

No MIC is deal breaker for me actually. Let me see if I should go for EMX500S or Hi-Z 32S. Anyone has any link to TY Hi-Z HP 32S and also if any idea if this is wit Mic? PLs share the link if you have. Thanks.


----------



## Willber (Feb 14, 2019)

Ira Delphic said:


> The only thing holding me back on the Kube is the price of the earbud is the same as the price of the shipping. I know this makes no sense because the overall value has to be considered. Spoiled by the cheap shipping from China!


I feel the same. Perhaps I can negotiate a v2 and a spare v1 in one shipment...

Having said that, the v1 is well worth the total cost compared to others I have bought.


----------



## Willber

MelodyMood said:


> No MIC is deal breaker for me actually. Let me see if I should go for EMX500S or Hi-Z 32S. Anyone has any link to TY Hi-Z HP 32S and also if any idea if this is wit Mic? PLs share the link if you have. Thanks.


Did you read that review I posted?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 14, 2019)

waynes world said:


> Btw, I don't have the silver cable version, but I have it from a reliable source that they are more transparent, detailed and revealing, whereas the regular cable could be described as being "more analog" sounding.



The silver cable version has no mic...which is why we wanted it.  Out of stock anyway.



MelodyMood said:


> No MIC is deal breaker for me actually. Let me see if I should go for EMX500S or Hi-Z 32S. Anyone has any link to TY Hi-Z HP 32S and also if any idea if this is wit Mic? PLs share the link if you have. Thanks.



This is why some of us are recommending the Sabia V6... because the standard black cable version has a mic.
In stock last time I looked.

Also, Willber has been trying to help you.  You are starting to overthink everything.


----------



## nick n (Feb 14, 2019)

Oh no ,stuck from option and information overkill it seems 
If you think this place is bad for figuring out earbuds try figuring out fullsized stereo separate components ( deliberated for close to a year there )

=here are a couple impressions for you from GREQ who BTW has excellent ears.
 plus a chart.
BTW VIDO mentioned there too. White with mic  on fleabay, which is likely one of your better options considering what you described for preference unless I misread that.
Don't let the price fool you, they are no slouches to use that term again.
They get me moving around anyways.
if you do find them cheaper elsewhere be sure you get the regular "y" cable and not the "j" offset longer side cable, think some reported that.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2613#post-14725212

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2615#post-14727108

Using the advanced search = the  MORE button = in the top right of your screen can narrow things down even more for you on whatever you are looking into.
Faster and more direct ( I hope ) impression posts.


----------



## chellity

Carrow said:


> So where would I get these, and which version?


 
You can get them right here! 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Earphone-E...and-New-Headset/223322310399?var=522112301685

He has both version 1 and 2 available at his store., the version 1 is apparently lauded here but the version 2 is even bassier and darker like you want.  

As for me, i'm having a hard time resisting getting some mmcx sabias!  The mic version I had absolutely blew me away, and easily sounded better than my version one willsounds mk2, and probably better than my ty 150s that were my favorite before.  

I can only imagine how some mmcx sabias would sound, with my choice of cable!  I tried out the tin audio t2, and I liked it, but IEMs just feel too invasive and isolating for daily use for me...I like being able to hear my dog or anyone else if they need something.  so I have a nice 6 core copper mmcx cable waiting here, doing nothing 

Since I returned the tin audios, I guess I can spoil myself with some mmcx sabias and maybe some kubes?


----------



## MelodyMood

Willber said:


> Did you read that review I posted?


Yes. Gone through it. Earbuds looks ok but by  build and vented back, I am putting it on less priority than others.


----------



## MelodyMood

mbwilson111 said:


> The silver cable version has no mic...which is why we wanted it.  Out of stock anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks. Let me have a look at Sabia V6 too. Cannot see it on Aliexpress actually.


----------



## MelodyMood

Any link to Sabia V6 with Mic and also TY Hi-Z 32S (Red cable one) with mic?


----------



## Chris674

Willber said:


> I feel the same. Perhaps I can negotiate a v2 and a spare v1 in one shipment...
> 
> Having said that, the v1 is well worth the total cost compared to others I have bought.


I'd say the Kube 1 was definitely worth it. I meant to contact the seller about combining shipping when I ordered the Sabia but I didn't want to wait so I jumped. Maybe I'll try to combine for a Kube 2 later.
BTW, I feel dumb. I turned those E808+ inward and they sound totally different. Never even thought about that being why they have that asymmetrical design. Duh!


----------



## Willber

Chris674 said:


> BTW, I feel dumb. I turned those E808+ inward and they sound totally different. Never even thought about that being why they have that asymmetrical design. Duh!


Yeah, I like the shape, I can get a good fit. Very comfortable.


----------



## 40760

Couldn't get the Pearl in fixed silver cable, so ordered 2 pcs of Kube1 instead...


----------



## j4100

AkashS04 / Sweetears, anyone?


----------



## subwoof3r

Are the Kube1/2 easy to open ? (unglued?)
I literally scratched (once again?) one side of my Snow Lotus 1.0+ trying to open it to mod them  I gave up to still get a working unit.
I begin to be really tired of those brands who glue like hell the drivers on the shells, and which is completely useless. Damn..


----------



## letlive

MelodyMood said:


> No MIC is deal breaker for me actually.


Same here. I only buy buds with mics. Just get the Sabia V6 from here (Standard Version) and you will be happy. Never had a better bud with mic.


----------



## Willber

j4100 said:


> AkashS04 / Sweetears, anyone?


Ha ha, I had the same thought! I went through something similar with the former.
Benefit of the doubt, but I'll just observe from now on.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

you mic guys should seriously look into something like the fiio BTR1K.  such an awesome little device for about $50.


----------



## 40760

Seems like the listing for Kube V1 has been taken down. Wonder if they're really all sold out, since I saw stocks available for other colours after I bought the last 2 pieces of black.


----------



## Willber

palestofwhite said:


> Seems like the listing for Kube V1 has been taken down. Wonder if they're really all sold out, since I saw stocks available for other colours after I bought the last 2 pieces of black.


There is something strange going on.
Last night a link to the ebay advert was posted here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2673#post-14780369

When I clicked on it the price was shown as $10. I checked the advert via my previous order and that still showed as $8. Now last night's advert has been withdrawn and the original is showing as sold out.
I think the advert will be re-listed at $10. I'm only guessing but I presume the seller has seen how popular they are on this thread and has upped the price. We shall see.


----------



## 40760 (Feb 15, 2019)

Willber said:


> There is something strange going on.
> Last night a link to the ebay advert was posted here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2673#post-14780369
> 
> ...



I bought them at $10 each with $10 combined shipping, which works out to a total of $30. I wouldn't be surprised if someone actually bought up all of the remaining stock.

My Moondrop Liebesleid was also purchased from the same seller and it's still in transit. I guess it'll be quite a while before a receive anything at this rate...

EDIT: Apparently the seller told me I could change out one of the Kube V1 for the Pearl. I did so and topped up the price difference, and now I'll have one of each coming my way tomorrow.


----------



## Willber

palestofwhite said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if someone actually bought up all of the remaining stock.


That's a possibility.


----------



## fairx

Anybody have kube v1 & v2 pics for comparison? I'm looking for some in local store. 

Or did I missed pics anywhere in the thread?


----------



## Willber

fairx said:


> Anybody have kube v1 & v2 pics for comparison? I'm looking for some in local store.
> 
> Or did I missed pics anywhere in the thread?


Kube v1 (standard MX500 shell)







Kube v2


----------



## fairx

Willber said:


> Kube v1 (standard MX500 shell)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks a bunch. Seems the stock already out on local store (the non mx500 shell) Will look  somewhere else.


----------



## mochill

I'm looking for the zen v1


----------



## Carrow

chellity said:


> You can get them right here!
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Earphone-E...and-New-Headset/223322310399?var=522112301685
> 
> ...



Temporarily sold out but I'll keep an eye on that link! V2 seems like it'd suit my needs, yeah. Thanks for the heads-up!


----------



## mbwilson111

MelodyMood said:


> Thanks. Let me have a look at Sabia V6 too. Cannot see it on Aliexpress actually.



It will most  likely never be on Aliexpress.  It ships from Indonesia not China.

Don't forget to check Amazon and Ebay for buds with mics.  I would rather not have a mic but I do have this from Amazon and I like it.  Price is down from when I bought mine last summer.  I bought it because I have their headphone and love it. I have the gold one.  It is metal.  A nice all rounder.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01IQ27WJ0/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

At some point you will have to just pick something and decide to be happy. .. or you can let analysis paralysis lead to no decision at all.  Right now it seems as though no one will be able to help you decide.  Personally I would be afraid now to give you advice because then you would blame me if you hate whatever bud you end up with.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analysis_paralysis

If you don't want to read the article here is a short summary.

Analysis paralysis is when the fear of potential error outweighs the realistic expectation or potential value of success, and this imbalance results in suppressed decision-making in an unconscious effort to preserve existing options. An overload of options can overwhelm the situation and cause this "paralysis", rendering one unable to come to a conclusion.


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> *This is a sort of PSA post:*
> 
> Protect your hearing guys. Don't listen too loud. Better to be safe than have to deal with hearing issues.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear about your tinnitus....I heard on Radio 5 this morning - that apparently medicinal leeches have been successfully used for the treatment by improving circulation:  https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=opera&q=leeches+tinnitus&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8


----------



## mbwilson111

activatorfly said:


> Sorry to hear about your tinnitus....I heard on Radio 5 this morning - that apparently medicinal leeches have been successfully used for the treatment by improving circulation:  https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=opera&q=leeches+tinnitus&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8



Wait.. what?  They put leeches in your ear?


----------



## activatorfly (Feb 15, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Wait.. what?  They put leeches in your ear?


I guess they must attach them to the external part of the ear?? - the radio interview was with a practitioner from https://www.theleechclinic.com ...based in Birmingham and London. First time I've heard of this treatment - the presenter was really taken aback too....so I guess it's not widely known about! (- usually tinnitus can be alleviated by listening to binaural beats.)


----------



## Ira Delphic

The YINCROW RW-9 finally shipped. I had a second one in the shopping cart for the lower sale price, so of course got that too. Not sure why I need a backup copy of an earbud I haven't heard yet. Got one red and the second blue.


----------



## waynes world

Ira Delphic said:


> The YINCROW RW-9 finally shipped. I had a second one in the shopping cart for the lower sale price, so of course got that too. *Not sure why I need a backup copy of an earbud I haven't heard yet. Got one red and the second blue.*



You answered your own question - of course you need both red and blue! 

I hope you like them as much as I do.


----------



## Ira Delphic

waynes world said:


> You answered your own question - of course you need both red and blue!
> 
> I hope you like them as much as I do.



I love the sound signature of the SL 1+ CE and if the YINCROW RW-9 are as good I'll be happy! A related issue, my family members are getting saturated with hand-me-down earbuds


----------



## phower (Feb 15, 2019)

activatorfly said:


> Sorry to hear about your tinnitus....I heard on Radio 5 this morning - that apparently medicinal leeches have been successfully used for the treatment by improving circulation:  https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=opera&q=leeches+tinnitus&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8


I have tinnitus in my right ear. Not sure how it developed. I don't listen at high volume. Common painkillers are also ototoxic and I might have damaged my ear when I was given them for back pain.
Tinnitus is sometimes unbearable and many end up taking their own life. There is no known  cure
that works very well.
*Don't get obsessed with sound. Once your hearing is damaged, it is gone forever*


----------



## chinmie

Ira Delphic said:


> The YINCROW RW-9 finally shipped. I had a second one in the shopping cart for the lower sale price, so of course got that too. Not sure why I need a backup copy of an earbud I haven't heard yet. Got one red and the second blue.





waynes world said:


> You answered your own question - of course you need both red and blue!
> 
> I hope you like them as much as I do.



why did everytime i hear red and blue combo, these guys always come to. mind?


----------



## chinmie

phower said:


> I have tinnitus in my right ear. Not sure how it developed. I don't listen at high volume. Common painkillers are also ototoxic and I might have damaged my ear when I was given them for back pain.
> Tinnitus is sometimes unbearable and many end up taking their own life. There is no known  cure
> that works very well.
> *Don't get obsessed with sound. Once your hearing is damaged, it is gone forever*



yup. i learn to pick up small details of sound in a low volume, a product of working at recording and mixing back then. listening at high volume, although it feels immersive, it actually overloading the ears and the ability to hear details.


----------



## waynes world

mochill said:


> I'm looking for the zen v1



Good luck! They probably would suit your tastes quite well.



chinmie said:


> yup. i learn to pick up small details of sound in a low volume, a product of working at recording and mixing back then. listening at high volume, although it feels immersive, it actually overloading the ears and the ability to hear details.



That's good advice. I'm starting to appreciate more and more headphones and earbuds that provide detail at lower volumes.


----------



## iJay

Hello all!
I have been listening to SL 1.0+ for a almost a week. I like but still evaluating.
My question: I have a couple decent DAPs including Colorfly C3, Cowon PD, Shozy Alien, etc. I am interested in a higher quality DAP and wondered if Monk+ and SL 1.0+ are capable of higher performance or if I will need to get better buds as well.
I’m also open to buying TOTL buds and continue using my current DAPs if that would be a wiser choice.
Thanks!


----------



## HungryPanda

Most earbuds are easy to drive until you go for 400 ohm or higher


----------



## golov17

I would not advise having the ATH-CM2000Ti as the main, too strange sound with an unbalanced sound signature, squeezed and noisy, purely design product, spoiled by marketers for the sake of appearance, although a good driver, I admit. But in the end it is not better than ATH-CM700Ti or 9W Studio Neo. Let's see what will change with a burn ..


----------



## nickv

Looks like I missed the Kubes. Anyone think they'll resurface again?


----------



## 40760

nickv said:


> Looks like I missed the Kubes. Anyone think they'll resurface again?



At they rate they're selling, I'm sure they will...


----------



## CharlesRievone

golov17 said:


> I would not advise having the ATH-CM2000Ti as the main, too strange sound with an unbalanced sound signature, squeezed and noisy, purely design product, spoiled by marketers for the sake of appearance, although a good driver, I admit. But in the end it is not better than ATH-CM700Ti or 9W Studio Neo. Let's see what will change with a burn ..


Sorry to hear that, uncle. What a shame. Thanks for the info anyway.


----------



## golov17

CharlesRievone said:


> Sorry to hear that, uncle. What a shame. Thanks for the info anyway.


it does not matter, in any case, after the ATH-CM707 it was expected


----------



## j4100

Have to say, the Vunbuds / Mojo combo is really doing it for me. Spending a bit of time with my laptop (downloaded Bandcamp albums and some live recordings). Great stuff.

Hope you're all having a good weekend.


----------



## mbwilson111

I noticed that the seller of the Sabia earbuds now has some silver cabled ones (no mic) back in stock plus there is still stock available for the standard mic version and the mmcx version.  My silver cabled ones are on the way so I am not able to comment on sound yet but someone else might be able to


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> I noticed that the seller of the Sabia earbuds now has some silver cabled ones (no mic) back in stock plus there is still stock available for the standard mic version and the mmcx version.  My silver cabled ones are on the way so I am not able to comment on sound yet but someone else might be able to



I had a look for a link to this seller but see it's not the one with the Kubes. Any chance of a reminder? Ta


----------



## nick n

same seller , just that the Kube V1 are all sold out ( for now???)
https://www.ebay.com/sch/jultoptau/...99&ul_noapp=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562


----------



## j4100

Thanks. The link I clicked said no other items for sale. Stoopid ebay.


----------



## j4100

Now I have had a look, I reckon the Vunbuds are just Sabias with a cable similar to VJC. In that case, the mmcx Sabia is a good buy when matched with a cable of your choice


----------



## nickv (Feb 16, 2019)

What's people's general opinion on the Sabias? Good for the money?

I'm looking for something similar and maybe a step up from the Yincrow X6. I was really impressed by the bass extension and bass thump on those and want more of the same.


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> I had a look for a link to this seller but see it's not the one with the Kubes. Any chance of a reminder? Ta



https://www.ebay.com/itm/Elibuds-Sa...40304e30f:m:mtylfDp3hmZXM3HpFU7nsoQ:rk:1:pf:0


----------



## Ira Delphic

nickv said:


> What's people's general opinion on the Sabias? Good for the money?
> 
> I'm looking for something similar and maybe a step up from the Yincrow X6. I was really impressed by the bass extension and bass thump on those and want more of the same.



I haven't tried the Sabia, but have the Yincrow X6, which is said to have identical driver and shell as the Vido. 

IMO the FAAEAL Snow-lotus 1.0+/1.0 Plus Commemorative Edition is very good value, and a step up from the Vido/Yincrow X6. The SL has wider soundstage, better and tighter bass. For US$11 I don't think you can go wrong. The SL has a heavy, non-braded fabric covered cable and the included clip is definitely needed.


----------



## CyberGhost (Feb 16, 2019)

I received VE Azusa 2.0s, and I have to say it is a disappointment. I expected a lot better than this. People have said that it is "clear". I don't think it is at all. It sounds very veiled.

In fact I think TY Hi-Z 32HP blows it away, in clarity, bass, everything. I am super impressed with 32HP.

I'm starting to feels like VE sells that oil that makes you hiss...


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 16, 2019)

iJay said:


> Hello all!
> I have been listening to SL 1.0+ for a almost a week. I like but still evaluating.
> My question: I have a couple decent DAPs including Colorfly C3, Cowon PD, Shozy Alien, etc. I am interested in a higher quality DAP and wondered if Monk+ and SL 1.0+ are capable of higher performance or if I will need to get better buds as well.
> I’m also open to buying TOTL buds and continue using my current DAPs if that would be a wiser choice.
> Thanks!


Don't bother upgrading your dap if you are only looking to improve sound on these budget earbuds, the refinement of these buds is not going to show up the 1-2% difference in quality between most good sources. The sound colouration might change between gear but it's not going to make a $5 sound like a different product if your current daps aren't doing that already.

You are better off getting new earbuds, don't automatically jump to the highest cost, in my opinion price to performance is a mixed bag in earbuds. Better to follow the popular opinion of other users to see which earbuds perform well.

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 16, 2019)

CyberGhost said:


> I received VE Azusa 2.0s, and I have to say it is a disappointment. I expected a lot better than this. People have said that it is "clear". I don't think it is at all. It sounds very veiled.
> 
> In fact I think TY Hi-Z 32HP blows it away, in clarity, bass, everything. I am super impressed with 32HP.
> 
> I'm starting to feels like VE sells that oil that makes you hiss...


I thought it sounded quiet clear with the thin aliexpress foams. I wouldn't say it sounded highly resolving or anything, but it was clear enough to my ear. I would want more bass to balance out the sound. It's very smooth, reminds me of the emx500 but slightly more refined and slightly less bass. Overall I wouldn't pay $78 for it though.

I'll say one thing though, VE products do seem to have questionable tuning at times, i did not like any if their 'lite' series.

I liked the monk plus for what it was, but that's $5 not $78. Monk plus sounds really nice in a metal shell though, wanted to tune it in one when I get back to diying. Tried it briefly before and I liked what I was hearing. Removed the boxy sound the stock signature had.

Sounded richer and cleaner at the same time and I think the bass has potential to improve somewhat. We'll see where mods can take it.

One thing i love about the smokey transparent VE monks is the shell, it's much better quality than most mx500 shells. It's stronger, more durable and better finished. Feels more premium than most other mx500 (even TOTL) earbuds.


----------



## chellity (Feb 16, 2019)

nickv said:


> What's people's general opinion on the Sabias? Good for the money?
> 
> I'm looking for something similar and maybe a step up from the Yincrow X6. I was really impressed by the bass extension and bass thump on those and want more of the same.



Out of all the earbuds i've had in the hobby, for the price, the sabias are the winner by far.  They feel so well rounded, that the only downside i feel is a smaller soundstage than something like some willsounds.  They really do have the most clean sounding bass I've heard while also thumping all you want, easily leaving SL 1.0+ and version 1 willsounds mk 2 in the dust.  The highs are well extended like I learned that I like from having my previous favorite, the ty 150s, and the mids have a good tonality.  Also, I can use them in games like apex legends and can hear everything around me easily, so they have a good level of imaging too.  My squad literally makes jokes about people never being able to sneak up on me, when I use these affordable earbuds and call everything out first   One of the very few buds I feel no need to use EQ with.  They're about the level or better of my ty 150 for half the price....I only have the mic version, but my mmcx version I ordered sounds even better apparently, but it's still on the way.


----------



## 40760

CyberGhost said:


> I received VE Azusa 2.0s, and I have to say it is a disappointment. I expected a lot better than this. People have said that it is "clear". I don't think it is at all. It sounds very veiled.
> 
> In fact I think TY Hi-Z 32HP blows it away, in clarity, bass, everything. I am super impressed with 32HP.
> 
> I'm starting to feels like VE sells that oil that makes you hiss...



The Asura 2.0s does improve with burn-in. I've actually gone through 2 pairs of them already and should have a 3rd pair coming in.

It's true that they don't excel in the low end, but they should be pretty clear sounding as compared to the monks.

Could it be that your source is not powerful enough or have you tried amping them since they're rated at 150ohms?


----------



## silverfishla

iJay said:


> Hello all!
> I have been listening to SL 1.0+ for a almost a week. I like but still evaluating.
> My question: I have a couple decent DAPs including Colorfly C3, Cowon PD, Shozy Alien, etc. I am interested in a higher quality DAP and wondered if Monk+ and SL 1.0+ are capable of higher performance or if I will need to get better buds as well.
> I’m also open to buying TOTL buds and continue using my current DAPs if that would be a wiser choice.
> Thanks!


Go for a Zishan Z2 orZ3.  These little DAPs sound the best for earbuds.  Full sound and opamp rollable.  Or a Zishan Dsd, which is like the ultimate version (but you can’t put a Burson opamp in it).  Brings buds to a different level of enjoyment.


----------



## 40760

silverfishla said:


> Go for a Zishan Z2 orZ3.  These little DAPs sound the best for earbuds.  Full sound and opamp rollable.  Or a Zishan Dsd, which is like the ultimate version (but you can’t put a Burson opamp in it).  Brings buds to a different level of enjoyment.



Are the Z3 or DSD capable of driving higher impedance earbuds in the 300-320ohm range? I can't seem to find info on their output impedance and ratings.


----------



## iJay

silverfishla said:


> Go for a Zishan Z2 orZ3.  These little DAPs sound the best for earbuds.  Full sound and opamp rollable.  Or a Zishan Dsd, which is like the ultimate version (but you can’t put a Burson opamp in it).  Brings buds to a different level of enjoyment.



I have a Walnut v.1 which does sound good. Wanting more functionality but have looked at the DSD version a few times. I’ll re-investigate. Thanks!


----------



## viatraco

mbwilson111 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Elibuds-Sa...40304e30f:m:mtylfDp3hmZXM3HpFU7nsoQ:rk:1:pf:0



Is it worldwide shipping ? I cannot see datails on my mobile ebay


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 17, 2019)

viatraco said:


> Is it worldwide shipping ? I cannot see datails on my mobile ebay



You will need to sign in to ebay so the app knows where you are.  I use my computer with ebay.  For me it said $8 shipping to UK. Is there a place for you to click for more info?

Where are you located?


----------



## acroyear

Cancelled the HifiBoy Dream order, now the To600, Black Ling w/silver cable, and White Ling are all on their way to me.  I think I've lost my mind.  No way for me to know which is best until I listen to them though.  I'm most curious about the Black Ling.


----------



## waynes world

chellity said:


> Out of all the earbuds i've had in the hobby, for the price, the sabias are the winner by far.  They feel so well rounded, that the only downside i feel is a smaller soundstage than something like some willsounds.  They really do have the most clean sounding bass I've heard while also thumping all you want, easily leaving SL 1.0+ and version 1 willsounds mk 2 in the dust.  The highs are well extended like I learned that I like from having my previous favorite, the ty 150s, and the mids have a good tonality.  Also, I can use them in games like apex legends and can hear everything around me easily, so they have a good level of imaging too.  My squad literally makes jokes about people never being able to sneak up on me, when I use these affordable earbuds and call everything out first   One of the very few buds I feel no need to use EQ with.  They're about the level or better of my ty 150 for half the price....I only have the mic version, but my mmcx version I ordered sounds even better apparently, but it's still on the way.



Please stop it with posts like that. I have the regular Sabia and am trying to resist getting either the silver plated or mmcx version, and posts like yours are making it difficult.

Joking. Glad that you like them so much!


----------



## sareer007

Could anyone suggest an upgrade to Sl 1.0+ CE ?


----------



## waynes world

sareer007 said:


> Could anyone suggest an upgrade to Sl 1.0+ CE ?



A very good side-grade is the Yincrow RW9.


----------



## Ira Delphic

sareer007 said:


> Could anyone suggest an upgrade to Sl 1.0+ CE ?



What's lacking in the SL and what source do you use? Anything in particular you listen to primarily? More info will let you get a better response. 

My wife isn't into earbuds and she was blown away by the SL 1.0+. More than my other earbuds. And there are others in the same price range as good, maybe better.


----------



## Ira Delphic

waynes world said:


> A very good side-grade is the Yincrow RW9.



I hope so! 

I think a good introduction to earbuds are a Vido $2 and Qian 25 $5. For $7 that's some good quality listening gear to get started!


----------



## HungryPanda

Ira Delphic said:


> What's lacking in the SL and what source do you use? Anything in particular you listen to primarily? More info will let you get a better response.
> 
> My wife isn't into earbuds and she was blown away by the SL 1.0+. More than my other earbuds. And there are others in the same price range as good, maybe better.


 A great earbud that I think is a bit better is the K's 64

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/K-s...bud-64-ohms-Earbud-Flat-Head/32780855048.html


----------



## waynes world

Ira Delphic said:


> I think a good introduction to earbuds are a Vido $2 and Qian 25 $5. For $7 that's some good quality listening gear to get started!



Pretty crazy actually.


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> A great earbud that I think is a bit better is the K's 64
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/K-s...bud-64-ohms-Earbud-Flat-Head/32780855048.html



If one were to get them, it would lead to the slippery slope of K's earbuds!


----------



## HungryPanda

waynes world said:


> If one were to get them, it would lead to the slippery slope of K's earbuds!


Yes I'm lying at the bottom (but have a smile)


----------



## silverfishla

palestofwhite said:


> Are the Z3 or DSD capable of driving higher impedance earbuds in the 300-320ohm range? I can't seem to find info on their output impedance and ratings.


The DSD has tons of power and can drive the bigger loads for sure.  I’ll have to check the Z3.  That one has less power, but still very adequate.  I find the open sound of these devices to have great timbre for earbuds not just the power.  Their analog sound makes buds sound more “real” and have more good bass.


----------



## jibberish

I just saw a picture of a red RW-9 that has a chin slider, which made me curious, because my white RW-9 doesn't have one.  Looking at all the colors, they all have a chin slider except for the white ones.  This is an outrage, I demand a $.00001 refund for that missing piece of plastic.

I am enjoying the RW-9 today with my brand new Radsone ES100.  I'm now looking at getting a pair of MMCX buds that I can pair with a balanced cable for the ES100's balanced output. I don't have any headphones with a balanced cable, and I feel like I should get my full money's worth out of the ES100, right????  I see a high impedance Toneking bud in my future.

The money just keeps flowing out of my paypal account...


----------



## waynes world

jibberish said:


> I just saw a picture of a red RW-9 that has a chin slider, which made me curious, because my white RW-9 doesn't have one.  Looking at all the colors, they all have a chin slider except for the white ones.  This is an outrage, I demand a $.00001 refund for that missing piece of plastic.
> 
> I am enjoying the RW-9 today with my brand new Radsone ES100.  I'm now looking at getting a pair of MMCX buds that I can pair with a balanced cable for the ES100's balanced output. I don't have any headphones with a balanced cable, and I feel like I should get my full money's worth out of the ES100, right????  I see a high impedance Toneking bud in my future.
> 
> The money just keeps flowing out of my paypal account...



At least your money if flowing out for good stuff


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Feb 17, 2019)

palestofwhite said:


> Are the Z3 or DSD capable of driving higher impedance earbuds in the 300-320ohm range? I can't seem to find info on their output impedance and ratings.


Yes, i have it, and a walnut v2 and z1 and a dsd, and they all do all my high impedance buds beautifully throw a burson v5i in the z3 and upgrade the caps and your good to go put i have heard people have problems with theres ( qc isn't that great) i have changed the battery too


----------



## MelodyMood

Willber said:


> Ha ha, I had the same thought! I went through something similar with the former.
> Benefit of the doubt, but I'll just observe from now on.


??? Did not get you.


----------



## MelodyMood

letlive said:


> Same here. I only buy buds with mics. Just get the Sabia V6 from here (Standard Version) and you will be happy. Never had a better bud with mic.


Ok. Looks good. Silverplate cable is nice looking but seems there is no mic with the silver cable.


----------



## MelodyMood

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> you mic guys should seriously look into something like the fiio BTR1K.  such an awesome little device for about $50.


We are talking about Earbud here and not device. Only if this device is clone of my Smartphone, then only it can be considered


----------



## MelodyMood

What is the difference in FiiO EM3 and EM3S? Seems em3 is new one?


----------



## viatraco

@mbwilson111 Poland. I wrote to seller already. Thank you.


----------



## MelodyMood

HungryPanda said:


> Yes I'm lying at the bottom (but have a smile)


Is K's 64 good? What kind of sound signature it has? Or any version which is good and have warm sound and good bass also but with mic.


----------



## MelodyMood

Can anyone pls share the link to buy best quality of TY Hi-Z HP32 and 32S. I guess both comes with mic but cannot see 32s and so many of 32 are there. Any help appreciated


----------



## waynes world

MelodyMood said:


> We are talking about Earbud here and not device. Only if this device is clone of my Smartphone, then only it can be considered



Is an earbud with a mic a clone of your smartphone?


----------



## MelodyMood

waynes world said:


> Is an earbud with a mic a clone of your smartphone?


No but if the mic is not there, I will need separate earbud to talk or attend calls on phone. That's why it is difficult for me to buy an earbud which is not having mic.


----------



## mbwilson111

MelodyMood said:


> No but if the mic is not there, I will need separate earbud to talk or attend calls on phone. That's why it is difficult for me to buy an earbud which is not having mic.



Just buy the Sabia V6.  It comes with a mic and is well regarded in this forum.   I do not use mics but I  have heard that the quality of some mics is better than others.  Maybe someone can comment on that.  If the mic  is good just get it and feel lucky that they are available at the moment.  Be sure to get the black cable one.  It is the version recommended for use with phones...that is why it has a mic.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

MelodyMood said:


> No but if the mic is not there, I will need separate earbud to talk or attend calls on phone. That's why it is difficult for me to buy an earbud which is not having mic.



The BTR1k is a device that has a mic built in so you can then use any ear bud of your choosing without having to worry about it having a mic - and with the added benefit of bluetooth and a bit of extra amp power to drive those buds...


----------



## MelodyMood

mbwilson111 said:


> Just buy the Sabia V6.  It comes with a mic and is well regarded in this forum.   I do not use mics but I  have heard that the quality of some mics is better than others.  Maybe someone can comment on that.  If the mic  is good just get it and feel lucky that they are available at the moment.  Be sure to get the black cable one.  It is the version recommended for use with phones...that is why it has a mic.


Thanks. Actively considering to buy it. Also, any link to TY HI-Z 32S with mic or 32 with mic?


----------



## HungryPanda

K's 64 - NO Mic, TY Hi-Z - NO Mic. Headroom MS16- Mic result


----------



## mbwilson111

MelodyMood said:


> Thanks. Actively considering to buy it. Also, any link to TY HI-Z 32S with mic or 32 with mic?



If someone had a link they probably would have answered by now.  Even if someone owns the TY Hi-Z that does not mean that the link they used one upon a time is still active.   Any of us would have to do a search to find it so maybe you should just do the search.... but do it in google and see what comes up.


----------



## mbwilson111

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> The BTR1k is a device that has a mic built in so you can then use any ear bud of your choosing without having to worry about it having a mic - and with the added benefit of bluetooth and a bit of extra amp power to drive those buds...



So totally relevant to the discussion and perfect for someone who needs a mic.


----------



## mbwilson111

@MelodyMood   Ok, I googled for you and found a Ty Hi Z with a mic.  Not the models that you said because those do not come with mics.   Many buds, maybe most,  only have a non mic version.  But, Ty Hi Z has this one.  I have never heard it but it looks nice and has a mic. You can find it here.

https://penonaudio.com/ty-hi-z-hp-32.html

You have to choose the option that is $22.90.

I should warn you though.  I remember you saying that the Monk+ has no bass.  NO bass?  Mine have bass and I love the sound of them.  However I use them with daps that give more power than most phones will provide.  Even if your phone is making a bud loud enough that does not mean that it is enough to make it sound its best.  You can research the reasons for that.


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


>


They look similar the MS16...


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> So totally relevant to the discussion and perfect for someone who needs a mic.



Good luck with that!


----------



## MelodyMood

mbwilson111 said:


> @MelodyMood   Ok, I googled for you and found a Ty Hi Z with a mic.  Not the models that you said because those do not come with mics.   Many buds, maybe most,  only have a non mic version.  But, Ty Hi Z has this one.  I have never heard it but it looks nice and has a mic. You can find it here.
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/ty-hi-z-hp-32.html
> 
> ...


I think that is different from HP32 or 32s. Shell and I guess sound signature is also very different. You are right that it may not be available anymore or so. With Monk+, I found the sound is lacking the bass badly. With any DAP or something, it may be ok sounding. But surely not with the phone.


----------



## mbwilson111

MelodyMood said:


> think that is different from HP32 or 32s.



Of course it is different.  I was just pointing it out as an option. 

Some people stack their phone with a portable amp.  That is one solution. It can be a good idea to improve your source before worrying about getting different buds.  Also, might an iem suit your needs better?  More mic options and possibly easier to drive.

When you enter a forum to ask for advice, it is good to keep your mind open to ideas that you had not considered.  Otherwise what is the point of asking?


----------



## MelodyMood

mbwilson111 said:


> Of course it is different.  I was just pointing it out as an option.
> 
> Some people stack their phone with a portable amp.  That is one solution. It can be a good idea to improve your source before worrying about getting different buds.  Also, might an iem suit your needs better?  More mic options and possibly easier to drive.
> 
> When you enter a forum to ask for advice, it is good to keep your mind open to ideas that you had not considered.  Otherwise what is the point of asking?


I Agree  IEM I found not comfortable as they go inside the ear so I always feel that something is inside.


----------



## waynes world

MelodyMood said:


> I think that is different from HP32 or 32s. Shell and I guess sound signature is also very different. You are right that it may not be available anymore or so. With Monk+, I found the sound is lacking the bass badly. With any DAP or something, it may be ok sounding. But surely not with the phone.



Do you understand what we have been talking about when suggesting a bluetooth receiver like the Radsone ES100 or the Fiio BTR1k?

They are very tiny devices:
https://www.fiio.com/btr1k
https://www.radsone.com/earstudio

They are bluetooth devices with mics. You plug your earbuds into the device, and you play your music from your phone. When you get a phone call, the "mic" is the bluetooth device.

They work fantastically well (the proof is all of the iems and earbuds @ClieOS has recabled to work with the ES100 lol)

So if you get a device like that, then you will never have to worry about your earbud having a mic.

Please let us know if you are not interested in a bluetooth device like that so that we can stop recommending them to you. Thanks!


----------



## MelodyMood

waynes world said:


> Do you understand what we have been talking about when suggesting a bluetooth receiver like the Radsone ES100 or the Fiio BTR1k?
> 
> They are very tiny devices:
> https://www.fiio.com/btr1k
> ...


Got it. Thanks for explaining. But they are too big to carry. It will be like carrying two phones. But I agree that good option for many people.


----------



## waynes world

MelodyMood said:


> Got it. Thanks for explaining. But they are too big to carry. It will be like carrying two phones. But I agree that good option for many people.



Ok, thanks.

So, why not get the Sabia with mic? Great earbud!


----------



## MelodyMood

waynes world said:


> Ok, thanks.
> 
> So, why not get the Sabia with mic? Great earbud!


Will order. Hope the standard one with Mic is having decent build quality. I liked the silver cable one though but I guess no mic option with that. How is the sound signature actually? COmpare to TP16? Or Yincrow X6?


----------



## exavolt

waynes world said:


> They are bluetooth devices with mics. You plug your earbuds into the device, and you play your music from your phone. When you get a phone call, the "mic" is the bluetooth device.
> 
> They work fantastically well (the proof is all of the iems and earbuds @ClieOS has recabled to work with the ES100 lol)
> 
> So if you get a device like that, then you will never have to worry about your earbud having a mic.



My FiiO BTR3 sounds better than my smartphone, and as bonus, it has mic so I don't need to get earbuds / IEMs with mic. Although I usually connect my earbuds / IEMs wired to my laptop / smartphone when I need to talk (using phone's / laptop's mic) because I don't want any more latency.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache (Feb 17, 2019)

MelodyMood said:


> Got it. Thanks for explaining. But they are too big to carry. It will be like carrying two phones. But I agree that good option for many people.



They are tiny.  Much smaller than your phone.  Here's my BTR1k next to a pen lid...you just clip it on to a convenient place like a pocket or collar and put your phone away.  It has volume controls and so forth on it...and a microphone too!  lol


----------



## MelodyMood

mbwilson111 said:


> I noticed that the seller of the Sabia earbuds now has some silver cabled ones (no mic) back in stock plus there is still stock available for the standard mic version and the mmcx version.  My silver cabled ones are on the way so I am not able to comment on sound yet but someone else might be able to


I saw that. But Silver cable is not having mic. That's bad. But will order the one with mic.


----------



## MelodyMood

So basically no link to Hi-Z 32 with mic? As far as know, it was available. May be they stopped.


----------



## Ira Delphic

I hate to distract from the never ending earbud-with-mic discussion, excellent article on state of the art music production. Lots of hype and maybe self promotion, but a great read!
It may make you think twice before using a sonically v shaped earbud 

THE MIXING SECRETS BEHIND CARDI B’S GRAMMY-WINNING ALBUM
Leslie Brathwaite is the mix engineer for Invasion of Privacy
Feb 15, 2019


----------



## chinmie

Ira Delphic said:


> I hate to distract from the never ending earbud-with-mic discussion, excellent article on state of the art music production. Lots of hype and maybe self promotion, but a great read!
> It may make you think twice before using a sonically v shaped earbud
> 
> THE MIXING SECRETS BEHIND CARDI B’S GRAMMY-WINNING ALBUM
> ...



V shaped sounding earbuds/earphones actually are superior and safer in noisy environments than balanced ones.

in noisy or typical public places, the bass (and trebles occasionally, depends on the  noise) are the ones that get drowned first. mids/vocals are not that much of a problem because we tend to pick out conversations even in noisy settings.

because we want to compensate for the loss of bass, we increase volume to be able to hear them.

so unless the earphones have a great noise blocking capability, V shaped is the way to go on those situations


----------



## kadas152

MelodyMood said:


> We are talking about Earbud here and not device. Only if this device is clone of my Smartphone, then only it can be considered


BTR1K connects to your smartphone via Bluetooth and it has embedded mic, so you could use any buds you like and always have mic. And as bonus you’re free to use your phone without cable restriction.


----------



## waynes world

Ira Delphic said:


> It may make you think twice before using a sonically v shaped earbud
> 
> THE MIXING SECRETS BEHIND CARDI B’S GRAMMY-WINNING ALBUM
> Leslie Brathwaite is the mix engineer for Invasion of Privacy
> Feb 15, 2019



Long article! I didn't see the reference to v shaped signature. Would you mind pointing it out? Thanks.


----------



## ClieOS

Here is EarStudio ES100 (upper right) and FiiO BTR3 (2nd upper right) next to a Sony Xperia XZ Premium, with Shozy BK as reference. 

These two BT adapter are no bigger than most other BT adapter but they do offer SQ that easily rival many entry level audiophile DAP and well ahead of most smartphones. The only annoyance is really how to manage the cable on the earbuds / IEM as many are too long to use with BT adapter (*ideally you want something arounf 50~60cm). You can either loop them around or did what I usually do - shorten and reterminate the cable,  or make a short cable with those that have mmcx / 2 pins connectors.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 18, 2019)

MelodyMood said:


> I saw that. But Silver cable is not having mic. That's bad. But will order the one with mic.



I had not written that post for you,Melody.  Your comment about the silver version not having a mic is redundant. That version is for people who do not want a mic.  Not everyone uses a phone for music.  Some people just use it as a phone. 

There were other users in here that I knew were interested in the silver cable version which had previously sold out.    At this exact moment there are 25 people reading this thread.  You are not the only one looking for information... or trying to provide it.

I hope you do order the one with the mic and that you enjoy it.



Ira Delphic said:


> I hate to distract from the never ending earbud-with-mic discussion



haha.. never ending indeed   I have said all that I will say.  There is no point in continuing the discussion.  Many people have attempted to be helpful.


----------



## Stenso

Thank you to all the wonderful and knowledgable people on this great thread.


----------



## Stenso

Whoops, my boyish enthusiasm led me to post a little prematurely! I have just unboxed and plugged in my Penon BS1’s and wow! I wouldn’t have come across these without some of you taking the time to write about your experiences with earbuds.

Thank you again.


----------



## Ira Delphic (Feb 18, 2019)

chinmie said:


> V shaped sounding earbuds/earphones actually are superior and safer in noisy environments than balanced ones.
> 
> in noisy or typical public places, the bass (and trebles occasionally, depends on the  noise) are the ones that get drowned first. mids/vocals are not that much of a problem because we tend to pick out conversations even in noisy settings.
> 
> ...



My point was, in addition to v shaped earbuds, not a bad idea to have balanced sounding earbuds to hear the music as the sound mixer and audio engineers intended. Of course the best way to accomplish this would be by using and over ear monitor headphones. I assume many of us would rather skip EQ.



waynes world said:


> Long article! I didn't see the reference to v shaped signature. Would you mind pointing it out? Thanks.



Sorry, v shaped wasn't mentioned. Just interesting how music on the high end is produced these days.


----------



## waynes world (Feb 18, 2019)

Ira Delphic said:


> Sorry, v shaped wasn't mentioned. Just interesting how music on the high end is produced these days.



You might find this video interesting:

The TRUTH Why Modern Music Is Awful


Spoiler: The TRUTH Why Modern Music Is Awful


----------



## purplesun

Ira Delphic said:


> I hate to distract from the never ending earbud-with-mic discussion, excellent article on state of the art music production. Lots of hype and maybe self promotion, but a great read!
> 
> THE MIXING SECRETS BEHIND CARDI B’S GRAMMY-WINNING ALBUM
> Leslie Brathwaite is the mix engineer for Invasion of Privacy
> Feb 15, 2019



Similarly, I happen to read this in The New York Times (of all places)
TLDR: Dynamic range ain't what it used to be!
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/07/...my-songs-tell-us-about-the-loudness-wars.html

Now, let's get back on topic with mics and earbuds.


----------



## exavolt

WillSound PK16 is surprisingly good. OOTB with attached foams, its bass is pretty uncontrolled and bleeds a lot. After letting it burn in for few hours, and applied tape mod by blocking the larger vent on each side, the bass is more controlled. And I like it without foams.

Pretty forward upper-mids / lower treble, big roll-off at the bass (almost no subs, no energy from the mid / upper bass); just like ACG with full Hiegi foams. PK16's clarity and imaging are pretty good but ACG has an edge on both. ACG also provides more extended treble and more treble quantity.

PK16 is simply good, but it's not for those who are looking for some bass.


----------



## Ira Delphic

exavolt said:


> WillSound PK16 is surprisingly good. OOTB with attached foams, its bass is pretty uncontrolled and bleeds a lot. After letting it burn in for few hours, and applied tape mod by blocking the larger vent on each side, the bass is more controlled. And I like it without foams.
> 
> Pretty forward upper-mids / lower treble, big roll-off at the bass (almost no subs, no energy from the mid / upper bass); just like ACG with full Hiegi foams. PK16's clarity and imaging are pretty good but ACG has an edge on both. ACG also provides more extended treble and more treble quantity.
> 
> PK16 is simply good, but it's not for those who are looking for some bass.



I see you have the WillSound PK16, Faaeal Snow Lotus 1 / 1+, and Kube V1. How to they compare? I'm most curious about  SL 1.0+ vs. Kube v1.


----------



## chinmie (Feb 20, 2019)

exavolt said:


> WillSound PK16 is surprisingly good. OOTB with attached foams, its bass is pretty uncontrolled and bleeds a lot. After letting it burn in for few hours, and applied tape mod by blocking the larger vent on each side, the bass is more controlled. And I like it without foams.
> 
> Pretty forward upper-mids / lower treble, big roll-off at the bass (almost no subs, no energy from the mid / upper bass); just like ACG with full Hiegi foams. PK16's clarity and imaging are pretty good but ACG has an edge on both. ACG also provides more extended treble and more treble quantity.
> 
> PK16 is simply good, but it's not for those who are looking for some bass.



i personally think that the PK16 is similar and an upgrade to the PT15 sound. also it is the closest to etymotic sound in earbuds form that i know/heard to this day. i use full hiegi foams on my PK16


----------



## assassin10000 (Feb 19, 2019)

I've been contemplating getting a pk shell earbud. Anyone heard both the willsound pk16 & pk32?


I really like the ACG mids/highs, bass is ok w/eq.


----------



## B9Scrambler

The new MMCX equipped Lyra model will be dropping soon and I've been lucky enough to receive an early look at it. Anyone interested can check out some first impressions here: https://thecontraptionist.blog/2019/02/19/astrotec-lyra-nature-preview/


​
I have yet to be provided any definitive information on pricing or the release date as of yet, but I suspect they'll be revealing that soon since they've clearly got retail models ready. Impressions are positive though. They have a reasonably energetic signature with some added warmth in the low end. Bass extends really well, treble seems a bit rolled off after 14k, and the mids are plenty full and detailed. So far it's been a great all-rounder and plays well with my preferred genres (Liquid d'n'b, classic rock, and metal).


----------



## jogawag

assassin10000 said:


> I've been contemplating getting a pk shell earbud. Anyone heard both the willsound pk16 & pk32?
> 
> 
> I really like the ACG mids/highs, bass is ok w/eq.



Please look here.
WILLSOUND AUDIO COMPARISON (ENGLISH VERS.) MK1 MK2 MK3 MK300 PK16 PK32
https://aftersoundblog.wordpress.co...son-english-vers-mk1-mk2-mk3-mk300-pk16-pk32/


----------



## exavolt

Ira Delphic said:


> I see you have the WillSound PK16, Faaeal Snow Lotus 1 / 1+, and Kube V1. How to they compare? I'm most curious about  SL 1.0+ vs. Kube v1.


I'll be back to you for the SL after I back home. PK16 and Kube V1 are complete opposite: PK16 is more about upper range and Kube is more about lower range. Kube's bass is very delicious, right amount of subs, tight punchy mid/upper-bass. Wish I could make a dual-driver with PK16 / ACG as the upper range and Kube for the lower range.


----------



## exavolt (Feb 20, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> I've been contemplating getting a pk shell earbud. Anyone heard both the willsound pk16 & pk32?
> 
> 
> I really like the ACG mids/highs, bass is ok w/eq.


You might want to read this: https://aftersoundblog.wordpress.co...son-english-vers-mk1-mk2-mk3-mk300-pk16-pk32/

edit: it turns out that @jogawag already provided the same link


----------



## 40760 (Feb 20, 2019)

Just received my Moondrop Liebesleid and out of the box, these are surely TOTL sounding! Really clear and impressive presentation with my Jazz playlist. I really like them.

Now to burn them in for 100 hours as stated in the documents...


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> i personally think that the TP16 is similar and an upgrade to the PT15 sound. also it is the closest to etymotic sound in earbuds form that i know/heard to this day. i use full hiegi foams on my PK16



I am confused.  In your first statement did you mean to say PK16 or are you in fact comparing the TP16 to the etymotic sound?


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> I am confused.  In your first statement did you mean to say PK16 or are you in fact comparing the TP16 to the etymotic sound?



oo darn it, i meant the Willsound PK16 

thank you for pointing it out. I'll edit the post so it won't confuse others


----------



## Matarro

I got my WillSounds yesterday and I must say that the MK2 is worthy of the hype. Instant favorite! It's warm sounding like I prefer but still not lacking in any other area. Everything is there and in enough quantity for my liking although I guess that comes down to preference. Treble heads might find them a bit dark maybe. 

I'll check the MK1 out if I can ever put the MK2 away, but it might be a while!


----------



## RobinFood

Matarro said:


> I got my WillSounds yesterday and I must say that the MK2 is worthy of the hype. Instant favorite! It's warm sounding like I prefer but still not lacking in any other area. Everything is there and in enough quantity for my liking although I guess that comes down to preference. Treble heads might find them a bit dark maybe.
> 
> I'll check the MK1 out if I can ever put the MK2 away, but it might be a while!



Yes, indeed. The MK2 is still my most used earbud...but it has seen better days.



chinmie said:


> oo darn it, i meant the Willsound PK16
> 
> thank you for pointing it out. I'll edit the post so it won't confuse others



You compare it to an Ety, but does it have the data retrieval and naturalness of an Ety, or is it just as close as it gets?
I've been itching to get it for a while, but just can't bring myself to commit to buying it...


----------



## exavolt

Ira Delphic said:


> I'm most curious about  SL 1.0+ vs. Kube v1.


Okay. Never trust your memories on audio. I remembered Kube's bass as punchy, but after A-B-ing with SL1+, Kube's bass sounds bloated and less defined. Both are warm with Kube has more bass quantity, while SL1+ is more balanced. Kube also has lots of reverbs.


----------



## nickv

Matarro said:


> I got my WillSounds yesterday and I must say that the MK2 is worthy of the hype. Instant favorite! It's warm sounding like I prefer but still not lacking in any other area. Everything is there and in enough quantity for my liking although I guess that comes down to preference. Treble heads might find them a bit dark maybe.
> 
> I'll check the MK1 out if I can ever put the MK2 away, but it might be a while!


I'm wondering what the deal is with ordering the Willsound MK2. Can I just approach him for a standard pair or do you have to wait for a MK2 to become available via one of his Facebook posts?


----------



## jibberish

nickv said:


> I'm wondering what the deal is with ordering the Willsound MK2. Can I just approach him for a standard pair or do you have to wait for a MK2 to become available via one of his Facebook posts?


I ordered mine here: http://www.rholupat.com/willsound-mk2.html


----------



## Matarro

nickv said:


> I'm wondering what the deal is with ordering the Willsound MK2. Can I just approach him for a standard pair or do you have to wait for a MK2 to become available via one of his Facebook posts?



You can order the regular ones on Rholupat but the MMCX and special editions are via Willy's facebook. I wanted mmcx buds and a custom length cable so I asked him about that on messenger.


----------



## mochill

I see moondrop has a silver cable nameless now , who has ordered it.


----------



## 40760

mochill said:


> I see moondrop has a silver cable nameless now , who has ordered it.



The silver cables are similar to those on the Liebesleid and NICEHCK EB2...


----------



## mochill

Does it sound different?


----------



## 40760

mochill said:


> Does it sound different?



I'm not sure about the Nameless, but the Liebesleid does sound different from the EB2...


----------



## subwoof3r

palestofwhite said:


> I'm not sure about the Nameless, but the Liebesleid does sound different from the EB2...


Did you swapped cables between both earbuds to confirm what you are saying?


----------



## 40760

subwoof3r said:


> Did you swapped cables between both earbuds to confirm what you are saying?


And... I'm out!


----------



## CasstardPie

I just bought this beautiful leather pouch! And I got these buds free i guess


----------



## EarlytoBed

I'm overwhelmed, too much! So.. I have to start somewhere. Would you help me choose a pair?

Looking for 8€ earbuds in aliexpress: 
-Faaeal snow lotus 1.0 64Ω
-DIY EMX500
-K's 64Ω
-Yincrow X6

Or these for 15€
-Yincrow RW-9
-Toneking TP16


----------



## HungryPanda

K's 64.......


----------



## Ira Delphic (Feb 20, 2019)

EarlytoBed said:


> I'm overwhelmed, too much! So.. I have to start somewhere. Would you help me choose a pair?
> 
> Looking for 8€ earbuds in aliexpress:
> -Faaeal snow lotus 1.0 64Ω
> ...



If you only care about getting a good sounding earbud with sufficent bass and decent treble and mids, get a Vido for $2 (there are links in earlier posts. I can post later if you can't find the link). The cable is kind of thin and the plug typical - cheap. They are pretty amazing, the best value IMO of any earbud. Many of us get more than one, since occationally there are bad ones.

I have the SL 1.0+ CE, which is not available for sale at the moment. I haven't used a SL 1.0 so can't comment. 

I hate to sound like a broken record, the Yincrow x6 is basically a Vido with nicer plug and cable. I have one and it's a nice earbud. But you can do better for not much more.

If you are the kind of person that will be happy with one earbud, some here really love the Yincrow RW-9 and it appears to have nice build components for the price US$17 from Ali the last time I checked. I have a few incoming based on comments by people here.

You really can't go wrong with anything on your list. If you're looking for a specific sound, or use mostly for one genre of music, let us know.


----------



## Dabbaranks (Feb 20, 2019)

CasstardPie said:


> I just bought this beautiful leather pouch! And I got these buds free i guess



Looks amazing, super jealous, share some impressions when you can! I probably won't ever get to spend that much on earbuds, even plastic Blurs are too rich for my blood, we're in car payment territory :')


EDIT: never mind about the car payment  I just realized those are the docomos drivers he’s modding, now I really want impressions


----------



## assassin10000 (Feb 20, 2019)

Anyone try these Leagginal? Came across them just a bit ago in my search for PK shell earbuds.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY...ne-hole-shell-without-R-L-on/32922747759.html


----------



## EarlytoBed (Feb 20, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> K's 64.......



Hey! I saw you recommending this in other post.
Behind dot dot dot... perhaps something importante to add? (maybe too much for a n00b) If you want, I'm all ears!



Ira Delphic said:


> If you only care about getting a good sounding earbud with sufficent bass and decent treble and mids, get a Vido for $2 (there are links in earlier posts. I can post later if you can't find the link). The cable is kind of thin and the plug typical - cheap. They are pretty amazing, the best value IMO of any earbud. Many of us get more than one, since occationally there are bad ones.
> 
> I have the SL 1.0+ CE, which is not available for sale at the moment. I haven't used a SL 1.0 so can't comment.
> 
> ...



Yes I took a look at Vido and Quian25 from nicehck, I hear good things about they but I already have a cheap earbud (sennheiser mx170) and I was looking for something better -still cheap-, a good deal (something like the CCA C10 but in earbuds) or deals.

I listen to The clash, Ramones, Led Zeppelin, Metallica first albums.. but I often listen M.Davis, Coltrane or Mingus.. also Pj Harvey, Tindersticks, Jack white... Morphine of course (nickname) so I believe this is not going to be very helpful!

K's.. Rw-9.. (vido?)

Thanks both for the help!


----------



## HungryPanda

of all of that list I would pick up the K's 64 every time,it just sounds so good


----------



## purplesun

EarlytoBed said:


> I listen to The clash, Ramones, Led Zeppelin, Metallica first albums PJ Harvey, Jack White


SHE3800 or Vido (When letting it rip in lo-fi!)


EarlytoBed said:


> M.Davis, Coltrane or Mingus.. also Tindersticks, Morphine


E808+ (For soundstage)

Buy all 3 for less $30. Others should have better recommendations further up the price range.


----------



## Chris674

I'm starting to panic that the Kube might not return and I ONLY got a single pair. Listened tonight and I always want it as an option in my stable. Was wondering if anyone had any comparisons with a couple of other buds that I feel are described similarly. Specifically the Sabia (which are on their way) and the Willsound MK1. Is there a chance that they have interchangable qualities or are the Kubes as unique as I think they are?


----------



## Ira Delphic

purplesun said:


> SHE3800 or Vido (When letting it rip in lo-fi!)
> 
> E808+ (For soundstage)
> 
> Buy all 3 for less $30. Others should have better recommendations further up the price range.



I'm with you on those choices Purplesun. The one copy of the SHE3800 that I have (a friend recabled) continues to surprise me in a good way! The E808+ is a bit sibilant but has incredible resolution for the price. But like the others has a flimsy cable and cheapish jack, which do not impact sound quality. 

Was just listening to the 2017 Nicehck Graphene clear shell, balanced, maybe a little bright, and that's pretty amazing too. That would be great based on what the OP listens to. I doubt the OP wants anything with "2017" in the product name! And I'd ask Nicehck to lower the price. 
I think a Faaeal is really doing earbuds right these days. Still consider the 1.0 or 1.0+.


----------



## jogawag

assassin10000 said:


> Anyone try these Leagginal? Came across them just a bit ago in my search for PK shell earbuds.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY...ne-hole-shell-without-R-L-on/32922747759.html



I did not try these, but...

I confirmed to the seller that "I think this sounds as same as DIY SR2 TPE wire with $15. Is it right?".
The seller answered that "yes, just different shell".


----------



## Chris674

purplesun said:


> SHE3800 or Vido (When letting it rip in lo-fi!)
> 
> E808+ (For soundstage)
> 
> Buy all 3 for less $30. Others should have better recommendations further up the price range.


Vido is a perfect recommendation. Never thought about the 808+ for soundstage but you are absolutely right. Listening to Kind of Blue and Sketches of Spain sounded MASSIVE.


----------



## purplesun

Ira Delphic said:


> I'm with you on those choices Purplesun. The one copy of the SHE3800 that I have (a friend recabled) continues to surprise me in a good way! The E808+ is a bit sibilant but has incredible resolution for the price. But like the others has a flimsy cable and cheapish jack, which do not impact sound quality.


What do I know? I haven't bought a new earbud since early 2017.
I am the one-eye/ear king/idiot in the land of newer earbud releases.


----------



## Ira Delphic

purplesun said:


> What do I know? I haven't bought a new earbud since early 2017.
> I am the one-eye/ear king/idiot in the land of newer earbud releases.



I was the same way - my purchases ended in (late) 2017, and now back getting some new earbuds. Maybe our old ones are no good compared to the new? Only one way to find out


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> Yes, indeed. The MK2 is still my most used earbud...but it has seen better days.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Tonally it is really close, especially when using thin foams or none at all. the PK16 has less intimate mids, and less top treble BA sparkle that the Ety has. still quite a feat, as that is not easy to accomplish even with other IEMs. this is and earbud, and a mid tier price at that.
only the Liebesleid has more treble sparkle than even the Ety, but to some it might come across as "too much seasoning" and "not studio monitor accurate" 

switching between them is seamless and require little to no adaptation period. as you already know since you have one, sometimes switching from/to ety from other iems (even more so from earbuds) require a bit adjustment period, or else the ety would sound too thin, or the other too boomy.


----------



## golov17

After burn much better.. recommended


----------



## Matarro

Nice that the CM2000Ti worked out for you in the end!

Speaking of burn, the MK1 are the first earbuds I buy that really must burn in. While some of my previous buds might have improved slightly after a few days they have been OK out of the box but the MK1 were unlistenable at first. No bass, tinny, weak. After only an hour I started to see a change and now a day later they are almost on the same level as my MK2. I'm going to give them a few more days before comparing them, if they improve just a tad more I think they might take the top spot.


----------



## EarlytoBed

purplesun said:


> SHE3800 or Vido (When letting it rip in lo-fi!)
> 
> E808+ (For soundstage)
> 
> Buy all 3 for less $30. Others should have better recommendations further up the price range.




Thanks purplesun I'll take a look at these!


----------



## EarlytoBed

HungryPanda said:


> of all of that list I would pick up the K's 64 every time,it just sounds so good



I believe these are the same, am I right?

https://es.aliexpress.com/store/pro...?spm=a219c.12010612.8148356.11.3d01769cwJ29tf

https://es.aliexpress.com/store/pro...ohms-Earbud-Flat-Head/519064_32780855048.html


----------



## golov17 (Feb 21, 2019)

Not bad ... K's 64


----------



## jogawag (Feb 21, 2019)

golov17 said:


> Not bad ...



Thank you for your earbuds info every time.
But please add also earbuds name for us...


----------



## EarlytoBed (Feb 21, 2019)

jogawag said:


> Thank you for your earbuds info every time.
> But please add also earbuds name for us...



These are the K's I'm looking for! (look at the logo on the shell) but with a better cable.

I believe this version:

https://es.aliexpress.com/store/pro...l?spm=a219c.12010612.8148356.9.48c374feMfLnSi


----------



## HungryPanda

EarlytoBed said:


> I believe these are the same, am I right?
> 
> /QUOTE] The second link is the one I have


----------



## Willber (Feb 21, 2019)

Chris674 said:


> Vido is a perfect recommendation. Never thought about the 808+ for soundstage but you are absolutely right. Listening to Kind of Blue and Sketches of Spain sounded MASSIVE.


If you want a large soundstage on a budget then this is the one:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...eadset-With-Mic-For-Phone-PC/32828318200.html

At least as wide as the E808+ with more depth (it's up there with the Snow Lotus 1.0+ and Kube v1, maybe larger). It also has better imaging and separation, and its mids are perfect for acoustic and vocals. Slightly less bass, though. It's in my top 3 and at less than $6 it's a steal.

Edit: Posting this has reminded me to buy a spare, in black this time. 
Also, the store I got my first one from has recently put up the price to $10 so I don't know how long this one will last.


----------



## subwoof3r

Anyone know where to find good extreme thin foams (like VEclan ones) on aliexpress?


----------



## jogawag (Feb 21, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> Anyone know where to find good extreme thin foams (like VEclan ones) on aliexpress?



I recommend this. Perhaps @golov17 recommended this first.

10pcs Filter Sponge Black Soft Foam Earbud Headphone Ear pads Replacement Sponge Covers Tips For Earphone MP3 MP4 Moblie Phone
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10-MP3-MP4/32881765999.html


----------



## Ira Delphic

Willber said:


> If you want a large soundstage on a budget then this is the one:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...eadset-With-Mic-For-Phone-PC/32828318200.html
> 
> At least as wide as the E808+ with more depth (it's up there with the Snow Lotus 1.0+ and Kube v1, maybe larger). It also has better imaging and separation, and its mids are perfect for acoustic and vocals. Slightly less bass, though. It's in my top 3 and at less than $6 it's a steal.
> ...



A little cheaper here, but never dealt with that seller.


----------



## waynes world (Feb 21, 2019)

jogawag said:


> Please look here.
> WILLSOUND AUDIO COMPARISON (ENGLISH VERS.) MK1 MK2 MK3 MK300 PK16 PK32
> https://aftersoundblog.wordpress.co...son-english-vers-mk1-mk2-mk3-mk300-pk16-pk32/



Great comparison. Thanks.



HungryPanda said:


> of all of that list I would pick up the K's 64 every time,it just sounds so good



I wasn't going to get them because I have too many great sounding budget buds as it is.

But K's 64 this! K's 64 that! And golov17 chiming in. Resistance is futile. Ordered.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> At least as wide as the E808+ with more depth (it's up there with the Snow Lotus 1.0+ and Kube v1, maybe larger). It also has better imaging and separation, and its mids are perfect for acoustic and vocals. Slightly less bass, though. It's in my top 3 and at less than $6 it's a steal.
> 
> Edit: Posting this has reminded me to buy a spare, in black this time.
> Also, the store I got my first one from has recently put up the price to $10 so I don't know how long this one will last



OK, you finally convinced me to listen to my husband's MS16 (black with blue cable).

I now have a silver (white cable) ordered.


----------



## Willber (Feb 21, 2019)

Ira Delphic said:


> A little cheaper here, but never dealt with that seller.


I've not used them either but there was some talk of fakes on here, I think.
The pictures look genuine, though, including the packaging.

Edit: I don't know how significant this is:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...-reference-list.805930/page-304#post-13852619


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> OK, you finally convinced me to listen to my husband's MS16 (black with blue cable).
> 
> I now have a silver (white cable) ordered.


I presume you liked them?


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

waynes world said:


> Great comparison. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




lol...It's true!  Just ordered myself a pair.  So the K's will be in a few weeks.  My Snow Lotus 1.0+CE arrive today.  I also have a pair of Yincrow RW-9s on the way.  My Panda PK2's arrived about 2 weeks ago...and then there's a bunch of RY4S, Ry4SUE, SL 1.0, some Vidos, EMX500S...all over the past couple months.  It's a good thing these are cheap items!


----------



## Ira Delphic (Feb 21, 2019)

waynes world said:


> Great comparison. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Here's a photo of my K's 64 purchased in 2017. The cable is a full 12 inches / 30.5 cm longer than a Monk+'s cable!
Note "K's earphone" isn't painted on the shell.
I've been giving another listen. I still believe that these must be have a different sound signature than the K's 64 recently discussed. These silver ones have a neutral sound signature, not v shaped. The treble doesn't sparkle and the bass isn't intense. The theory a few years ago was the length of the long cable has something to do with the different sound. I don't plan on poppling the shell open to look at the drivers. The extra cable lengh does come in handy at times.


----------



## EarlytoBed

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> lol...It's true! Just ordered myself a pair. So the K's will be in a few weeks. My Snow Lotus 1.0+CE arrive today. I also have a pair of Yincrow RW-9s on the way. My Panda PK2's arrived about 2 weeks ago...and then there's a bunch of RY4S, Ry4SUE, SL 1.0, some Vidos, EMX500S...all over the past couple months. It's a good thing these are cheap items!



Where did you get SL 1.0 + CE ? ( what does it mean CE? Cooper something or just the name of the model?)


----------



## HungryPanda

commemorative edition


----------



## viatraco

HungryPanda said:


> of all of that list I would pick up the K's 64 every time,it just sounds so good



So, what is clearly step up for those from list in your opinion ? Please type at least three worth to try. Sorry for my question, but this thread is so huge to search  Thank you


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

EarlytoBed said:


> Where did you get SL 1.0 + CE ? ( what does it mean CE? Cooper something or just the name of the model?)



here.... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Pre...924.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.4be64c4dkD6ane

...but they appear to no longer be available.


----------



## Willber (Feb 21, 2019)

EarlytoBed said:


> Where did you get SL 1.0 + CE ? ( what does it mean CE? Cooper something or just the name of the model?)


Looks like they've sold out again:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Pre...Hifi-Earphone-64-Ohm-Earbuds/32966966924.html

It's worth contacting the seller if you want some - he has repeated this advert before.

Edit: Doh, the Sgt beat me to it!


----------



## HungryPanda (Feb 21, 2019)

K's 500
Toneking TO400
Seahf AWK-F320S
Svara-L
OurArt Ti7
BGVP DX3s

All my favourites

I actually like the K's 300 and K's 600 a lot. I do not like K's 200 at all though


----------



## waynes world

viatraco said:


> So, what is clearly step up for those from list in your opinion ? Please type at least three worth to try. Sorry for my question, but this thread is so huge to search  Thank you



Nooooo! Don't ask him to do it!!!



HungryPanda said:


> K's 500
> Toneking TO400
> Seahf AWK-F320S
> Svara-L
> ...



Nooooo! Too late!

Bookmarked


----------



## EarlytoBed

waynes world said:


> Nooooo! Don't ask him to do it!!!





waynes world said:


> Nooooo! Too late!
> 
> Bookmarked




earbudmania strikes again!


----------



## Willber

HungryPanda said:


> K's 500
> Toneking TO400
> Seahf AWK-F320S
> Svara-L
> ...


Why did you show me those?
I don't have any of those.
_Why did you show me those?_


----------



## purplesun (Feb 21, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> K's 500
> Toneking TO400
> Seahf AWK-F320S
> Svara-L
> ...


Mr Panda just offered up some delicious bamboo.
Batten down the hatches, men!


----------



## assassin10000 (Feb 21, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> Anyone know where to find good extreme thin foams (like VEclan ones) on aliexpress?



If you want to try the in between there are these as well. They fall between those extreme ones and the normal ones. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/30P...acement-For-Earphone-MP3-MP4/32909795959.html




HungryPanda said:


> K's 500
> Toneking TO400
> Seahf AWK-F320S
> Svara-L
> ...



I think you need to try the ACG as well... maybe the Mrs. can get it. 

Also is your Svara the 32ohm version?


----------



## mbwilson111

assassin10000 said:


> I think you need to try the ACG as well... maybe the Mrs. can get it.
> 
> Also is your Svara the 32ohm version?



Thought about it a few weeks ago but have been enjoying some less expensive buds so much.  Plus the ones my husband has been making are really good.... some of them are exceptional.


----------



## HungryPanda

Yes my Svara-L is the 32 ohm version


----------



## 40760 (Feb 22, 2019)

The Moondrop Liebesleid is such a nice sounding pair of metal earbuds. Everything is just so clear and effortless, albeit the bass is not at the forefront but certainly not lacking. It's overall sound is cohesive and natural if I have to put it in words.

I think the clever usage of it's thick and heavy metal shells adds this slight "reverb" feel, that also gives a wider sense of space. It tingles slightly when the sound gets low enough, which I've never really felt in plastic earbuds. You sometimes get to literally "feel" the music. The back vented ports are also thoughtfully located in such a way that the foam pads will never be of obstruction, should you choose to use any. At around 24ohms, they work really well with any of my mobile devices, but scales even better with proper amping.

I certainly prefer them over the SWD2+, but maybe also because they fit better in my larger ears. The shells are also the heaviest in its class, and I can definitely feel them in my ears, but not in a bad way. Its currently my one of my top favourites and definitely a keeper!

EDIT: I sure hope they'll not take away the excitement of the K's Samsara, Kube V1 or Elibuds Pearl that's coming my way...


----------



## ClieOS

Talk about Svara-L - the guy behinds the Svara models has just started his own brand called 'smabat' (apparently it is short for small bat). The first earbud model under the new brand was just launched a few days ago, called ST-10, as an upgrade over the previous Svara models.


----------



## subwoof3r

ClieOS said:


> Talk about Svara-L - the guy behinds the Svara models has just started his own brand called 'smabat' (apparently it is short for small bat). The first earbud model under the new brand was just launched a few days ago, called ST-10, as an upgrade over the previous Svara models.


Where can we get it ? just checked on ali but nothing found yet
Looks interesting


----------



## j4100

ClieOS said:


> Talk about Svara-L - the guy behinds the Svara models has just started his own brand called 'smabat' (apparently it is short for small bat). The first earbud model under the new brand was just launched a few days ago, called ST-10, as an upgrade over the previous Svara models.



Language is a funny old thing. I'm sure that's exactly what people from Dundee would call a small bat.

In other news, I'm currently enjoying my Willsound Mk2 VJC. The supplied foams are too thick, so I'll need to find some thin ones in the large boxofoams.


----------



## exavolt

Found ST-10 at Taobao https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z38n.10677092.0.0.4c881debqfxIx5&id=586728095833

CNY 1080 ~= $160


----------



## exavolt

HungryPanda said:


> K's 500
> Toneking TO400
> Seahf AWK-F320S
> Svara-L
> ...


I kept interested in DX3s, part of it because DMG and DM6 IEMs are hyped, but it seems that DX3s got no hypes.


----------



## purplesun (Feb 22, 2019)

j4100 said:


> Language is a funny old thing. I'm sure that's exactly what people from Dundee would call a small bat.


Don't think the final "t" consonant will survive their mangling. Noowa'ahmee?
Been a while though. Sorry for off-topic regional dialectal discussion.


----------



## viatraco

waynes world said:


> Nooooo! Don't ask him to do it!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeeees, yeeees 
Thank you @HungryPanda 
@waynes world @Willber  sorry guys 

I came back to head-fi after 6 years. I need refresh my ears and gear.
Actually I have (or recently had)
Toneking TO65
NiceHCK EB2
Asura 2.0 (DIY recabled silver)
Headroom MS16
Monk+

I also have regarded:
Campfire Audio Comet
IKKO OH1
....but I think IEMs are not for me...

I am waiting for delivery Yincrow RW-9


----------



## subwoof3r

exavolt said:


> Found ST-10 at Taobao https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z38n.10677092.0.0.4c881debqfxIx5&id=586728095833
> 
> CNY 1080 ~= $160


Outch, I wil wait for some reviews first then 
And international can't buy on taobao, so I will wait also once it will be available on ali


----------



## ClieOS

subwoof3r said:


> Where can we get it ? just checked on ali but nothing found yet
> Looks interesting



Just released a few days ago, probably no Aliexpress reseller has picked it up yet.


----------



## fairx

I search st10 and found a forum? No post though.
http://www.smabat.com/

I wonder why they put a bbs. But it's good to have people engage with the maker.


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> Tonally it is really close, especially when using thin foams or none at all. the PK16 has less intimate mids, and less top treble BA sparkle that the Ety has. still quite a feat, as that is not easy to accomplish even with other IEMs. this is and earbud, and a mid tier price at that.
> only the Liebesleid has more treble sparkle than even the Ety, but to some it might come across as "too much seasoning" and "not studio monitor accurate"
> 
> switching between them is seamless and require little to no adaptation period. as you already know since you have one, sometimes switching from/to ety from other iems (even more so from earbuds) require a bit adjustment period, or else the ety would sound too thin, or the other too boomy.



Damn, I really want to buy them now! I am probably getting an ES100 next week, as I gave up on the current generation of true wireless and have an incoming short balanced cable for my Ety baby.

So, I'm going to need a short balanced earbud for chilling at home when I dont need isolation. If it sounds similar it is going to make eq simple.


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> Damn, I really want to buy them now! I am probably getting an ES100 next week, as I gave up on the current generation of true wireless and have an incoming short balanced cable for my Ety baby.
> 
> So, I'm going to need a short balanced earbud for chilling at home when I dont need isolation. If it sounds similar it is going to make eq simple.



i stick to the mifo and sabbat (really good true wireless earbuds in my book) for now as i think their price to performance are at happy medium. i use them both even more often than my more expensive TWS.


----------



## sareer007

Is it bad to use earbuds without any tips ?


----------



## HungryPanda

sareer007 said:


> Is it bad to use earbuds without any tips ?


 No, not if you are happy with fit and sound


----------



## 40760

sareer007 said:


> Is it bad to use earbuds without any tips ?



I 2nd @HungryPanda.

Some earbuds like the VE Zen 2.0 are designed and recommended to be used without foams by the manufacturers themselves.

But since I can't have a proper fit without the help of foams, I do use all my earbuds with them on.


----------



## Hououin Kyouma

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FAA...arbuds-Commemorative-Edition/32966966924.html
This SL 1.0+ CE cable is 5N OFC core! The old 1.0+ is silver-plated 5N OFC  Old 1.0+ have more detail and better soundstage. CE are still excellent


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> i stick to the mifo and sabbat (really good true wireless earbuds in my book) for now as i think their price to performance are at happy medium. i use them both even more often than my more expensive TWS.



Are you still using the ES100? 

I'm having too much fun using it (and all of my wired buds) so the jump to wireless buds is not pressing for me. Still, I'm interested, as I do enjoy the wireless headphones that I have (I have also been surprised by their sound quality, even though they are cheapos).

The Sabbat X12 pro is an iem though, correct?:
https://www.amazon.ca/OKCSC-Bluetooth-Waterproof-Headphones-Microphone/dp/B07FMY89RL

Is the mifo an iem or an earbud?



Hououin Kyouma said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FAA...arbuds-Commemorative-Edition/32966966924.html
> This SL 1.0+ CE cable is 5N OFC core! The old 1.0+ is silver-plated 5N OFC  Old 1.0+ have more detail and better soundstage. CE are still excellent



Maybe it's just me, but I have tended to find that yes, "silver plated" cables seem to bring out more details, but that they also seem to brighten things up a notch more than I like. Which makes me wonder if I'd prefer the CE version over the others.

Regardless, thanks for that info!


----------



## Redcarmoose (Feb 22, 2019)

Kube V2

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Earbud-Ear...ss-Monster-Subwoofer-/223345493344?nav=SEARCH

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kube-2.22577/reviews


----------



## Hououin Kyouma

waynes world said:


> Maybe it's just me, but I have tended to find that yes, "silver plated" cables seem to bring out more details, but that they also seem to brighten things up a notch more than I like. Which makes me wonder if I'd prefer the CE version over the others.
> 
> Regardless, thanks for that info!


I began to doubt when my friend told me the CE version sound slightly different from the old so I bought 2 pairs, checked the cable and I found the CE's cable was actually not silver-plated  I contacted the shop and they confirmed it. But nevermind, CE version are still excellent earbuds


----------



## Willber

Redcarmoose said:


> Kube V2
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Earbud-Ear...ss-Monster-Subwoofer-/223345493344?nav=SEARCH
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kube-2.22577/reviews


They are sitting in my shopping cart waiting for the v1 to become available so I can reduce shipping costs.


----------



## waynes world

Willber said:


> They are sitting in my shopping cart waiting for the v1 to become available so I can reduce shipping costs.



Yup, good plan. You definitely do also want the v1.


----------



## Willber

waynes world said:


> You definitely do also want the v1.


Already got one, need a spare. Do keep up!


----------



## waynes world

Willber said:


> Already got one, need a spare. Do keep up!



Lol! I thought that might be the case, but was too lazy to check. And, I knew you'd correct me if I had that wrong


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

waynes world said:


> Are you still using the ES100?
> 
> I'm having too much fun using it (and all of my wired buds) so the jump to wireless buds is not pressing for me. Still, I'm interested, as I do enjoy the wireless headphones that I have (I have also been surprised by their sound quality, even though they are cheapos).
> 
> ...




Got my 1.0+CE yesterday.  They are very very good.  Right up there with the RY4S UE...maybe a notch above.  They are plenty bright to my ears - very open and full sounding.  Definitely brighter than the SL1.0.  The cable is really nice too...


----------



## waynes world

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> Got my 1.0+CE yesterday.  They are very very good.  Right up there with the RY4S UE...maybe a notch above.  They are plenty bright to my ears - very open and full sounding.  Definitely brighter than the SL1.0.  The cable is really nice too...



Excellent. Do you find that they are overall smoother than the RY4S's?


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache (Feb 22, 2019)

waynes world said:


> Excellent. Do you find that they are overall smoother than the RY4S's?




Than the standard RY4S?  Yes.  None of the mid harshness of those.  I like the RY4S a lot actually (for the price they are amazing), but above a certain volume they do get pretty harsh.  The RY4SUE otoh is a very nice bud and not harsh.  However, I think I would say the SL1.0CE is maybe a tad smoother than those as well.  They are quite similar though...


----------



## waynes world

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> Than the standard RY4S?  Yes.  None of the mid harshness of those.  I like the RY4S a lot actually (for the price they are amazing), but above a certain volume they do get pretty harsh.  The RY4SUE otoh is a very nice bud and not harsh.  However, I think I would say the SL1.0CE is maybe a tad smoother than those as well.  They are quite similar though...



Sorry, I was referring to the UE version. A lot of these buds are quite similar though aren't they. Which means that they are all very good! 

I do go a bit insane though when I try to discern the differences lol.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 22, 2019)

waynes world said:


> I do go a bit insane though when I try to discern the differences lol.



If try to discern the differences I forget and just accidentally end up enjoying my music with whatever is in my ears (or on my head).


----------



## sareer007

When I don't use foam tips the treble is good but the bass is bad but when I use foam tips the bass is good but the treble is somewhat muddied. What should I do ?


----------



## mbwilson111

sareer007 said:


> When I don't use foam tips the treble is good but the bass is bad but when I use foam tips the bass is good but the treble is somewhat muddied. What should I do ?



Donut foams.


----------



## sareer007

Could you post a link for donut foams ?


----------



## mbwilson111

sareer007 said:


> Could you post a link for donut foams ?



Someone will.  I have many buds that came with a big assortment of foams and some are donut foams   You don't have any?    You could actually punch the hole yourself I think others have done it.


----------



## HungryPanda

sareer007 said:


> Could you post a link for donut foams ?


 Here you go

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10P...hions-Tips-For-Headphone-MP3/32697415575.html


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache (Feb 22, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> If try to discern the differences I forget and just accidentally end enjoying my music with whatever is in my ears (or on my head).




lol yes me too.  I sorta keep a running tally in my head of the earbud preferences but it's an imperfect science for sure.  I think my current tier list is something like this...

SL1.0+CE
RY4SUE
Panda PK2
SL1.0
EMX500S
RY4S
Vido
Monk+
Monk Lite

but there isn't much separating several of those tiers.

edit - actually, I'd go so far as to say everything on my list from the EMX500S up are buds that I could listen to with basically no qualms at all.  They are close to interchangeable really.  None of them has a quality that would cause me to not listen to them.  Below those are what I would call the "super budget" buds.  Really inexpensive.  They all sound quite good but also all have some quality that would make me choose something better if available...


----------



## purplesun

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> SL1.0+CE
> RY4SUE
> Panda PK2
> SL1.0
> ...


This getting too dangerous. And that smallbat looks damn good on their website.
I will just be at KZ's - where that's all you can buy (and a few CCAs).


----------



## jogawag (Feb 22, 2019)

sareer007 said:


> Could you post a link for donut foams ?



Color donut foams.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32683389893.html


----------



## Willber

waynes world said:


> A lot of these buds are quite similar though aren't they. Which means that they are all very good!
> 
> I do go a bit insane though when I try to discern the differences lol.


I agree and find that the EQ differences I make between them are smaller than a couple of years ago.


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> If try to discern the differences I forget and just accidentally end enjoying my music with whatever is in my ears (or on my head).


Same here. My top 5 are effectively interchangeable.


----------



## Daegalus

So I got a pair of Sennheiser MX-365 and the VE Monk Plus from massdrop. Listening to them side by side, i can't really tell the difference. Maybe a very slight bass bump on the Monk+, but honesty the MX-365s were easier to get, and work well. Only benefit is the Massdrop Monks have an inline controller/mic and the Sennheisers dont. But I have a OnePlus 6T so no headphone jack anyway and I use a FiiO BTR3 anyway, and that has a mic in it.

Also tried the Koss KSC75, while not earbuds, they sound great, and go well with the Sennheisers. I am thinking of MMCX modding both and getting the FiiO RC-BT cable for them both and making them wireless. 32$ bluetooth upgrade makes sense to me after adding MMCX connectors.

I have Yincrow X6 and RW-9 coming from aliexpress, just might take a while till I can test those.


----------



## mbwilson111

Daegalus said:


> Also tried the Koss KSC75, while not earbuds, they sound great,



The KSC75 is great.  You could call them a giant earbud


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> The KSC75 is great.  You could call them a giant earbud


Indeed, and they in fact bridged the gap to larger (and more expensive) gear for me a couple of years ago. Luckily after spending a few $hundred on stuff I no longer use I found my way back to Budget Budland! So, my advice to bud lovers is to get the KSC75 (I've got 3) but don't stray too far! 

(BTW, that's a dedicated KSC75 smiley - it's about time we had an earbud one.)


----------



## Blackground (Feb 22, 2019)

Anyone here still using TY Hi Z 650 earbuds?

Pulled mine out to start using again and was curious if there are any new competitors around? Nothing wrong with them per se, quite enjoyable when amped properly.

Its probably worth noting I already own an og monk, custom zen 2 and stardust or whatever those shozy buds are called


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Are you still using the ES100?
> 
> I'm having too much fun using it (and all of my wired buds) so the jump to wireless buds is not pressing for me. Still, I'm interested, as I do enjoy the wireless headphones that I have (I have also been surprised by their sound quality, even though they are cheapos).
> 
> ...



i still have the ES100, but to tell the truth i rarely use it nowadays. i strictly use the Bluedac at home for my wired earphones and use TWs for anything else. i only use the ES100 when i travel and i need to bring wired earphones. using TWs are just really convenient. 

the X12 pro is airpod style earbud with no noise isolation. they have IEM version called E12. the Mifo is an IEM


----------



## BadReligionPunk

jogawag said:


> Color donut foams.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32683389893.html


Got some of those but they are really brittle. I usually end up tearing a couple of them trying to put them on, and I have no issues putting donuts on. They sound great though and I generally use them on emx500, and Monk+.

Heigi donuts though. Love those! They are thick and strong. Last a long time too.  I don't think I could love EBX without them.


----------



## jogawag (Feb 22, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Got some of those but they are really brittle. I usually end up tearing a couple of them trying to put them on, and I have no issues putting donuts on. They sound great though and I generally use them on emx500, and Monk+.
> 
> Heigi donuts though. Love those! They are thick and strong. Last a long time too.  I don't think I could love EBX without them.



I am using red and blue of this shop, but they are thicker and durable than Heigi 's Dounuts so there is no problem at all.
You can see if you see the number of feedback and the score of 5.0.
Did not you give feedback with a bad score?

Moreover, since Heigi's  are only white and black, white's dirt is conspicuously so they are hard to use.

I think you have misunderstood something, or happened to be a defective product.
Or maybe you owe something to Heigi?


----------



## Dabbaranks

Hi guys I’m looking for some decent budget mmcx cables 3.5mm and 2.5mm without over ear heat shrink, memory wire, or ear hooks. Can anyone please point me in the right direction? Sub 20 dollars would be preferred 

Got some willsound mmcx buds on the way and currently in preparation mode, I have cables but they are either too heavy braided and some I rather not mod them for this use case.


----------



## DBaldock9

Dabbaranks said:


> Hi guys I’m looking for some decent budget mmcx cables 3.5mm and 2.5mm without over ear heat shrink, memory wire, or ear hooks. Can anyone please point me in the right direction? Sub 20 dollars would be preferred
> 
> Got some willsound mmcx buds on the way and currently in preparation mode, I have cables but they are either too heavy braided and some I rather not mod them for this use case.



There are a lot of cables available on AliExpress.

I've purchased good, budget priced MMCX cables from Venture Electronics - https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1924356
.
NiceHCK - https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1825606
.
and Luna Shops - https://www.aliexpress.com/store/319162


----------



## assassin10000

@Dabbaranks you can take a look at this thread, they have some good recommendations:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low-end-cheap-generic-otherwise-bang-for-buck-cable-thread.891911/

Many of them linked are 2 pin, but are also available as mmcx.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Feb 22, 2019)

jogawag said:


> I am using red and blue of this shop, but they are thicker and durable than Heigi 's Dounuts so there is no problem at all.
> You can see if you see the number of feedback and the score of 5.0.
> Did not you give feedback with a bad score?
> 
> ...



Yes I love heigis, and yes white does dirty, but I have quite a bit of those red and blues, and find they tear easily. Not knocking them. I like them very much and use them all the time. I guess I was just mentioning it because you brought them up. It is possible that they were a different batch. 

Anyway Rock On!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

h


DBaldock9 said:


> There are a lot of cables available on AliExpress.
> 
> I've purchased good, budget priced MMCX cables from Venture Electronics - https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1924356
> .
> ...



I have a few of the VE cable and love them. Soft and flexable and very lightweight. I use the 2.5mm MMCX for cable down in ears. At only $10 I recommend them fully.


----------



## acroyear

When I decided to buy the K's Black Ling, I didn't know I was buying the very last pair.  They're gone for good.


----------



## 40760

acroyear said:


> When I decided to buy the K's Black Ling, I didn't know I was buying the very last pair.  They're gone for good.



I suppose you bought from the eBay seller of the Kubes and Elibuds?


----------



## Dabbaranks

Thanks @DBaldock9 @assassin10000 @BadReligionPunk for the recommendations I’ll do some research from here, was also looking at TRN cables but I was just having trouble finding them without ear hooks.


----------



## 40760

Dabbaranks said:


> Thanks @DBaldock9 @assassin10000 @BadReligionPunk for the recommendations I’ll do some research from here, was also looking at TRN cables but I was just having trouble finding them without ear hooks.



I think all the TRN cables have pre-formed ear loops. I have a pair but I don't use them with earbuds.


----------



## assassin10000 (Feb 23, 2019)

Dabbaranks said:


> Thanks @DBaldock9 @assassin10000 @BadReligionPunk for the recommendations I’ll do some research from here, was also looking at TRN cables but I was just having trouble finding them without ear hooks.



No problem.

There is also memory wire ear hooks and non-memory wire ear hooks to consider as well. I actually like the non-memory wire ear hooks on thinner wire cables. It's a smoother feel around the ear itself. Plus they can typically be warmed up with a heat gun or hair dryer and shaped to your ears. After that they spring back to that shape, making them very convenient and more comfortable than the wired ones. For over the ear use.

Worse case scenario if you can't find something sans hooks, you can possibly peel them off.


Edit: I recently came across these. They look like the PT15 cable...
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...or-Shure-SE535-SE846/1825606_32815575381.html


----------



## acroyear

palestofwhite said:


> I suppose you bought from the eBay seller of the Kubes and Elibuds?


No, I bought from AK on AliExpress.


----------



## 40760

acroyear said:


> No, I bought from AK on AliExpress.



I see... That seller too had a listing that was recently removed, and I assume they were sold. Must be a pretty popular model.


----------



## acroyear (Feb 23, 2019)

palestofwhite said:


> I see... That seller too had a listing that was recently removed, and I assume they were sold. Must be a pretty popular model.


Maybe it was me then.  I also bought a 2.5 balanced Black Ling yesterday from an eBay seller in Indonesia.


----------



## 40760

acroyear said:


> Maybe it was me then.  I also bought a 2.5 balanced Black Ling yesterday from an eBay seller in Indonesia.



He must have made quite a bit from the community. I was wondering who might have bought that piece as the price was relatively good.

I still have a pair of Kube V1 and Elibuds Pearl coming, after I received my Liebesleid from him. A really responsive and helpful seller.


----------



## subwoof3r (Feb 23, 2019)

Dabbaranks said:


> Thanks @DBaldock9 @assassin10000 @BadReligionPunk for the recommendations I’ll do some research from here, was also looking at TRN cables but I was just having trouble finding them without ear hooks.





palestofwhite said:


> I think all the TRN cables have pre-formed ear loops. I have a pair but I don't use them with earbuds.



Exactly, as said by @assassin10000 you can peel them off, it's the way I did for several MMCX cables for my NiceHCK EBX earbuds 
With some patience, here is the result I achieved :




I also softened a bit more with heating water in a saucepan, really helpful to soften all types of cables (of course, beware to avoid Y-plitter and jack and mmcx jacks, but only cable parts themselves).

Those TRN cables are total bargain for the price, incredible.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Dabbaranks said:


> Thanks @DBaldock9 @assassin10000 @BadReligionPunk for the recommendations I’ll do some research from here, was also looking at TRN cables but I was just having trouble finding them without ear hooks.


No problem.  I also have a few of the big thick TRN cables that I use also.  If you are careful you can cut the memory plastic off and use them for wire down.  I have done this as well.  I think the trn cables are really well made,  and they measure pretty low. They are heavy and a bit short imo. That's my only rub with them. Still at $8 it's a good deal.


----------



## Dabbaranks

subwoof3r said:


> Exactly, as said by @assassin10000 you can peel them off, it's the way I did for several MMCX cables for my NiceHCK EBX earbuds
> With some patience, here is the result I achieved
> 
> I also softened a bit more with heating water in a saucepan, really helpful to soften all types of cables (of course, beware to avoid Y-plitter and jack and mmcx jacks, but only cable parts themselves).
> ...



Thanks, do you put the wire in the heated water? Or more of a double boiler technique? 

Nice cutting btw, I have three cables that I’ve taken ear guides off of and yours looks way better 

I think I’m going to try these two 

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cdhQi2rq

This KZ one has memory guides but looks like it could be manageable to wear down

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cgb0SYdw


----------



## mbwilson111

The Sabia Pearl is in the house!  Actually two of them.  Here is a photo of mine.  Sounds great!  Happy to have them.  My husband's pair are in his ears right now.


----------



## sareer007

I don't know whether it is correct to compare an iem to earbud but my sl 1.0 + is better than tin t2 in almost all ways except for vocals. And the sl 1.0 + is 11 usd whereas t2s were 35 usd when I bought them.


----------



## Dabbaranks

mbwilson111 said:


> The Sabia Pearl is in the house!  Actually two of them.  Here is a photo of mine.  Sounds great!  Happy to have them.  My husband's pair are in his ears right now.



Wow the cable looks even better in your photo, great now I’m gonna be refreshing my tracking like a mad man.

Thumbs up for  power.


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> The Sabia Pearl is in the house!  Actually two of them.  Here is a photo of mine.  Sounds great!  Happy to have them.  My husband's pair are in his ears right now.



Looking good! I'm still waiting for mine and the Kube V1 to arrive...


----------



## mbwilson111

Dabbaranks said:


> Wow the cable looks even better in your photo, great now I’m gonna be refreshing my tracking like a mad man.
> 
> Thumbs up for  power.



Yes, it is a very nice cable.  not stiff or sprongy.   And...Cat Power was sounding great on them!


----------



## mbwilson111

sareer007 said:


> I don't know whether it is correct to compare an iem to earbud but my sl 1.0 + is better than tin t2 in almost all ways except for vocals. And the sl 1.0 + is 11 usd whereas t2s were 35 usd when I bought them.



Often, the music seems more natural to me with good buds than with iems.  I do love many of my iems, but there is something about buds...especially since I do not care one way or the other about isolation.


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> Looking good! I'm still waiting for mine and the Kube V1 to arrive...



One of my Kube V1s has apparently been lost by the Royal Mail.  My orange pair arrived in the country on January 30th and has not been tracked since.  My purple one (along with my husbands blue one and an original Faaeal) arrived at the same time on the same day and was delivered on February 1st.  I wish I had ordered the orange at the same time as the others but I had planned to wait until I listened to the purple one.  Then I ended up ordering it a couple of days later because I was afraid they would all be out of stock if I waited


----------



## Bonzo78

HungryPanda said:


> K's 500
> Toneking TO400
> Seahf AWK-F320S
> Svara-L
> ...



Ciao to all!
K's 500 is my first and only "high$$$" earbuds and I have to say they are amazing!
The same experience of a good pair of over ears! 

Now I'd like to try another pair, I'm thinking about Zen or TY Hiz HP650...Are they a real upgrade or only a sidegrade?

TIA for every suggestion!

PS, my other earbuds are:
Kube 1, Monk+, Vido, Hiz 150, K's 64, Emx500s, Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0 limited ed., Faaeal Narcissus 300ohm, GM500 300ohm


----------



## Stenso

mbwilson111 said:


> One of my Kube V1s has apparently been lost by the Royal Mail. My orange pair arrived in the country on January 30th and has not been tracked since. My purple one (along with my husbands blue one and an original Faaeal) arrived at the same time on the same day and was delivered on February 1st. I wish I had ordered the orange at the same time as the others but I had planned to wait until I listened to the purple one. Then I ended up ordering it a couple of days later because I was afraid they would all be out of stock if I waited



Oh no! I hope that they turn up soon.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Be on the lookout for a postman wearing some kubes.


----------



## mbwilson111

BadReligionPunk said:


> Be on the lookout for a postman wearing some kubes.



Our postman is deaf 

A robot at customs clearance has maybe accidentally dropped it and stepped on it.  It never got beyond that point.


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> Our postman is deaf
> 
> A robot at customs clearance has maybe accidentally dropped it and stepped on it.  It never got beyond that point.



But your postman isn't colorblind. And really likes orange. 

Seriously, I hope they miraculously show up one day!


----------



## DBaldock9 (Feb 23, 2019)

I finally did a comparison of my three more expensive VE earbuds (not including any of the Monk+).
.
They're setup like this -
Asura 2.0 (2017) - Stock 2.5mm TRRS cable, VE Rubber Rings
Asura 2.0s AOE - VE Pure Blue 4-Strand 2.5mm TRRS cable, VE Rubber Rings
Zen 2.0 ZOE - Oyaide 102ssc 2.5mm TRRS cable, VE Rubber Rings
.
Running the stock Onkyo Music Player app on my Onkyo DP-X1 DAP, and using the Balanced 2.5mm TRRS output - I'm looping on some 24-Bit/192-KHz High Res tracks from the Chesky Records _Ultimate Headphone Demonstration_ (2014) album.  I'm using my ears to Level Match the volume when switching earbuds, rather than any test instruments - so some perceptions could be colored by that, as well as small differences in cables.
.
The AOE and Asura 2.0 sound very similar, but the AOE may have a bit more Midrange, which results in a slightly closer / shallower Sound Stage.
The ZOE has more Bass & Mid-Bass than the AOE or Asura 2.0, and its Sound Stage is closer / shallower than theirs.
.
*Treble* (level)
AOE => Asura 2.0 > ZOE
*Midrange* (level)
AOE > Asura 2.0 > ZOE
*Mid-Bass*
ZOE > Asura 2.0 => AOE
*Bass* (level)
ZOE > Asura 2.0 > AOE
.
*Sound Stage Width*
Asura 2.0 > AOE > ZOE
*Sound Stage Depth*
Asura 2.0 > AOE > ZOE

*EDIT: NOTE - Aside from the additional Bass that the ZOE has, and the more forward Midrange of the Asuras, there's not a large amount of difference between the three earbuds.*


----------



## jibberish

I've had my eye on either the Toneking TO200 or TO400 for a couple of weeks now and have been hemming and hawing to myself over which one to order.  Spotted the TO400 on a nice discount today and pulled the trigger


----------



## subwoof3r

Dabbaranks said:


> Thanks, do you put the wire in the heated water? Or more of a double boiler technique?
> 
> Nice cutting btw, I have three cables that I’ve taken ear guides off of and yours looks way better
> 
> ...


hehe thanks 
I personally thinks that removing ear guides on soft cables is fine, but it may helps to keep them on stiff cables.
Can't find back the video on youtube I followed, but yeah basically I do this on very heated water (once water boils) I put cable parts during 10 seconds, then I dry it and see, if not enough softened, I do it again and again until I'm satisfied 
Some cables may be still stiff after that operation, so there is nothing to do, unfortunately. But those TRN (and especially KZ) cables are playing well with that.


----------



## viatraco (Feb 23, 2019)

@jibberish Please link to discount on TO400


----------



## jibberish

viatraco said:


> Please link to discount on TO400


There are numerous sellers on aliexpress selling TO400 for about $70 right now, it had been mostly available at around $95 when I was looking last week.


----------



## HungryPanda

TO400 for $70 is a great price


----------



## viatraco

HungryPanda said:


> TO400 for $70 is a great price



Did you compare them in terms of SQ to ZEN 2.0 ?
And are TO400 is easier to drive ?


----------



## Themilkman46290

To400 are really good, not much bass but definitely worth $70


----------



## jibberish

Themilkman46290 said:


> To400 are really good, not much bass but definitely worth $70


Yeah, I feel like I've got high quality, bassy buds covered with the Willsound MK2, so I wanted to go with something fully different from that with my jump up to the next price tier.


----------



## viatraco

Themilkman46290 said:


> To400 are really good, not much bass but definitely worth $70



Yeah, I am looking for something good with mmcx at this price point. Not so many options: TO400, EBX, Svara L....


----------



## HungryPanda

The TO200 have more bass than the TO400


----------



## acroyear

I have four different earbuds in transit to me right now.  

Toneking to600
K's White Ling
K's Black Ling silver cable
K's Black Ling 2.5 Bal gold cable

They will arrive in that order.  Should be very interesting


----------



## HungryPanda

acroyear said:


> I have four different earbuds in transit to me right now.
> 
> Toneking to600
> K's White Ling
> ...


Happy listening ahead


----------



## waynes world

acroyear said:


> I have four different earbuds in transit to me right now.
> 
> Toneking to600
> K's White Ling
> ...



Somebody loves their Ling!


----------



## Ira Delphic

Willber said:


> Looks like they've sold out again:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Pre...Hifi-Earphone-64-Ohm-Earbuds/32966966924.html
> 
> It's worth contacting the seller if you want some - he has repeated this advert before.
> ...



SL 1.0+ CE available at this moment.


----------



## Ira Delphic

Blackground said:


> Anyone here still using TY Hi Z 650 earbuds?
> 
> Pulled mine out to start using again and was curious if there are any new competitors around? Nothing wrong with them per se, quite enjoyable when amped properly.
> 
> Its probably worth noting I already own an og monk, custom zen 2 and stardust or whatever those shozy buds are called



I still listen to my Hi Z 650 and it's my only TOTL model. Sounds great with my LG phones with DAC enabled. I use it mostly for AB-ing to other earbuds . The HP650 probably reproduces the "proper" amount of bass from a sound engineer's perspective, but other far cheaper earbuds are more fun for many types of music.
TY Hi-Z came out with such an ambitious earbud product line and they don't get much discussion here. It appears that K's earbuds, also offering many models, have gotten more traction.


----------



## acroyear

waynes world said:


> Somebody loves their Ling!



I've actually taken a giant leap of faith on the Black Lings based on my love of my Moondrop VX Pro, but my need for more sub bass.  Based on everything I've read, the bass is beautiful and well extended, the form factor and fit is very similar, and they have amazing detail.  Them being drop dead gorgeous also played a roll, I can't lie.  The White Ling and To600 are much less expensive, making them better for daily commuting.  The 2.5 Black Ling is mostly for at home listening.


----------



## rkw

golov17 said:


> After burn much better.. recommended


What is your opinion now of the ATH-CM2000Ti, compared to TOTL earbuds?
The list price has dropped to $400 US. You can even order them from Walmart!


----------



## assassin10000

jibberish said:


> Yeah, I feel like I've got high quality, bassy buds covered with the Willsound MK2, so I wanted to go with something fully different from that with my jump up to the next price tier.





viatraco said:


> Yeah, I am looking for something good with mmcx at this price point. Not so many options: TO400, EBX, Svara L....




Don't forget to include the Ourart ACG or Ti7. If you're looking for good mids/highs or good mids in a completely different sound signature.


----------



## snip3r77

RY4C @ $2.99
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4...&terminal_id=eb33042eb34743a5b9927b4b82e3959b


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> One of my Kube V1s has apparently been lost by the Royal Mail.  My orange pair arrived in the country on January 30th and has not been tracked since.  My purple one (along with my husbands blue one and an original Faaeal) arrived at the same time on the same day and was delivered on February 1st.  I wish I had ordered the orange at the same time as the others but I had planned to wait until I listened to the purple one.  Then I ended up ordering it a couple of days later because I was afraid they would all be out of stock if I waited



I do hope that they will show up someday, somehow. That feeling of waiting for nothing is terrible!


----------



## jogawag

palestofwhite said:


> I do hope that they will show up someday, somehow. That feeling of waiting for nothing is terrible!



You became a fine AliExpress addict! congratulations!


----------



## nickv

I think may have caught the earbud bug! I have the following on order:
RY4C
RY4S 
MS16
Quian25
EMX500
Snow lotus 1+ CE
Vido

Am I beyond help now?


----------



## 40760

jogawag said:


> You became a fine AliExpress addict! congratulations!



I just realised I'm a diamond member on AE...


----------



## 424358

What are some notable japanese earbud?


----------



## 40760

misterchao said:


> What are some notable japanese earbud?



Probably the Audio Technica ATH-CM2000Ti...


----------



## Ira Delphic

snip3r77 said:


> RY4C @ $2.99
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4...&terminal_id=eb33042eb34743a5b9927b4b82e3959b



There's also the S version with transparent shell for an extra $2 available here. I'll have to go back, the difference S vs non-S was mentioned iirc.


----------



## HungryPanda

S version is different shell to C


----------



## golov17

rkw said:


> What is your opinion now of the ATH-CM2000Ti, compared to TOTL earbuds?
> The list price has dropped to $400 US. You can even order them from Walmart!


Well, unsurpassed details throughout the range, but with a compact fast bass and excessive brightness in the range of female vocals, which can be tedious even with a dark source. Technically it fine, melodiously controversial.


----------



## jogawag

golov17 said:


> Well, unsurpassed details throughout the range, but with a compact fast bass and excessive brightness in the range of female vocals, which can be tedious even with a dark source. Technically it fine, melodiously controversial.



I like the sound of Shozy Cygnus (= Docomo Earbuds) with a pretty good quality and balance.
Do you think that the sound quality and balance of the ATH-CM 2000Ti is better than Shozy Cygnus?


----------



## golov17

jogawag said:


> I like the sound of Shozy Cygnus (= Docomo Earbuds) with a pretty good quality and balance.
> Do you think that the sound quality and balance of the ATH-CM 2000Ti is better than Shozy Cygnus?


apples vs oranges..


----------



## viatraco

HungryPanda said:


> K's 500
> Toneking TO400
> Seahf AWK-F320S
> Svara-L
> ...



One more question about your list.
I need mmcx earbuds. Which will be the best for Sennheiser Hd600 lovers ? Svara-L, TO400 or Ourart Ti7 ?


----------



## acroyear

maxxevv said:


> Fitted up my TO600's with these lovely 8-core, 2.5mm balanced cables from NiceHCK plugged to my desktop amp.
> I have to say, I'm astounded at how good these sound.
> 
> But they are really power hungry though. I need to set my amp to volumes that are almost comparable to my HD6XX for these.



I'm getting these on Tuesday, and I'm wondering if using a 2.5 balanced cable and either a Hiby R6 or Cayin N5iiS dap will provide enough juice to get the best out of them?  I'm asking because you mentioned using a desktop amp.  Have you tried them with any dap using your balanced cable?  I've never had 600 ohm earbuds.


----------



## 40760

Anyone experiencing small electric shocks from metal earbuds when plugged to an AMP or directly to a laptop connected to the mains?


----------



## HungryPanda

Only once I received a tingle from the EBX


----------



## 40760

HungryPanda said:


> Only once I received a tingle from the EBX



Thanks for sharing. I've been getting it a few times with my Liebesleid and I'm now feeling a bit paranoid when using them...


----------



## RobinFood

palestofwhite said:


> Thanks for sharing. I've been getting it a few times with my Liebesleid and I'm now feeling a bit paranoid when using them...



I got that like a hundred times the first while I had the Yincrow X6. After some digging people told me it was static electricity...might have been with the ms16, that was a while ago so details are hazy, but your comment sparked a wave of memories thinking I was getting electrocuted...


----------



## jogawag (Feb 26, 2019)

palestofwhite said:


> Anyone experiencing small electric shocks from metal earbuds when plugged to an AMP or directly to a laptop connected to the mains?



Previously I had a bit of electric stinging pain more than 10 times from the metal housing SVARA-L (96 Ω?).
After that I will no longer use that SVARA-L ...

EDIT:
Perhaps, the pain occurred at the connection part of MMCX.


----------



## 40760 (Feb 25, 2019)

Judging from the response from you guys, it seems more common than I thought.

I got it a few times from my NICEHCK EP10 and I thought it was due to faulty wiring. Then I also got it once from my EB2 and about 3 to 4 times with the Liebesleid.

Can't seem to trace to the root of the problem, but I sure will be avoiding earphones with metal shells for now. 

For those who had experienced this issue, does it apply to only particular pairs of your earphones? All 3 of mine exhibited the same issue so I can't tell...


----------



## 40760

RobinFood said:


> I got that like a hundred times the first while I had the Yincrow X6. After some digging people told me it was static electricity...might have been with the ms16, that was a while ago so details are hazy, but your comment sparked a wave of memories thinking I was getting electrocuted...



I thought the X6 was made of plastic shells. How did you solve it eventually? Not use it with the MS16 altogether?



jogawag said:


> Previously I had a bit of electric stinging pain more than 10 times from the metal housing SVARA-L (96 Ω?).
> After that I will no longer use that SVARA-L ...



I can not use the EP10 or EB2, but the Liebesleid costs way too much to be put away...


----------



## RobinFood

palestofwhite said:


> I thought the X6 was made of plastic shells. How did you solve it eventually? Not use it with the MS16 altogether?
> 
> 
> 
> I can not use the EP10 or EB2, but the Liebesleid costs way too much to be put away...



I will be honest and say that I didn't do anything special except stop worrying about it. It eventually sorted itself out. I have a few theories, maybe the changing of seasons did it, wearing less clothes for less rubbing, or maybe it was the pads that became broken in. I am not sure what did it, but I haven't had that issue in a long time. I also don't walk with earbuds on anymore.

The Yincrow is plastic and the MS16 is metal.


----------



## purplesun (Feb 25, 2019)

palestofwhite said:


> Thanks for sharing. I've been getting it a few times with my Liebesleid and I'm now feeling a bit paranoid when using them...


If you are worried, when connected to AC-powered devices, put surgical tape over the earphone's metal surface for insulation, or any tape that's comfortable.


----------



## assassin10000

I've had zero issues with my PT25 and ACG's, or any of my IEM's in the past.

@palestofwhite Is the shock when your putting them in your ear, plugging them in, while walking/active wearing or after you've been just sitting for a while?


----------



## 40760 (Feb 25, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> I've had zero issues with my PT25 and ACG's, or any of my IEM's in the past.
> 
> @palestofwhite Is the shock when your putting them in your ear, plugging them in, while walking/active wearing or after you've been just sitting for a while?



The shock happens a while into listening (pretty random) with the metal earphones plugged to my amp which is connected to my laptop into the mains. Which means I'm actually stationary. Sometimes I can actually feel it building up into a shock whereby the tingling intensifies.

I also happen to reside in a non-windy and high humidity (>70%) environment, whereby static is not that common.



purplesun said:


> If you are worried, when connected to AC-powered devices, put surgical tape over the earphone's metal surface for insulation, or any tape that's comfortable.



I'll try and get the surgical tape from the pharmacy when I have the chance. Is it a tried and tested method? I read that they are made of a microporous material.


----------



## purplesun

palestofwhite said:


> I'll try and get the surgical tape from the pharmacy when I have the chance. Is it a tried and tested method? I read that they are made of a microporous material.


Not tested, but any insulation is better than no insulation. There should be some waterproof ones as well from the pharmacy, those should be non-porous. I think your equipment is likely the culprit, I would stick with non-metal earbuds to be very safe.


----------



## exavolt

purplesun said:


> If you are worried, when connected to AC-powered devices, put surgical tape over the earphone's metal surface for insulation, or any tape that's comfortable.


reminds me this https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2018/12/437281/teen-electrocuted-while-charging-mobile-phone


----------



## RobinFood

exavolt said:


> reminds me this https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2018/12/437281/teen-electrocuted-while-charging-mobile-phone



Scary stuff. Thx fir the warning!


----------



## HungryPanda

It wasn't my desktop amp that did it to me it was one of my daps but I cannot remember which one


----------



## gazzington

Really enjoying a cheap ty hi-z 32 with an old fiio x3ii today. Good thumping bass for reggae


----------



## viatraco

DBaldock9 said:


> I finally did a comparison of my three more expensive VE earbuds (not including any of the Monk+).
> .
> They're setup like this -
> Asura 2.0 (2017) - Stock 2.5mm TRRS cable, VE Rubber Rings
> ...




@DBaldock9  ouch, that suprised me...I have just sold silver recabled Asura 2.0 to collect money for buying ZEN 2.0...I start doubt that was good idea. I thought that ZEN is significally step up in sound quality. 
Or maybe you wrote only about quantity of low/mid/treb and quality will be better ?


----------



## 40760 (Feb 25, 2019)

viatraco said:


> @DBaldock9  ouch, that suprised me...I have just sold silver recabled Asura 2.0 to collect money for buying ZEN 2.0...I start doubt that was good idea. I thought that ZEN is significally step up in sound quality.
> Or maybe you wrote only about quantity of low/mid/treb and quality will be better ?



Don't worry about it. I'm sure you'll like the Zen if you enjoyed the Asura. To me, the Zen's bass already makes up for the difference.


----------



## Ira Delphic

exavolt said:


> reminds me this https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2018/12/437281/teen-electrocuted-while-charging-mobile-phone



There's a good chance that the story is not accurate - 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/electrocuted-by-earphones/

I'm going to chaulk it up to urban legend unless it can be substantiated.


----------



## MisterMudd

gazzington said:


> Really enjoying a cheap ty hi-z 32 with an old fiio x3ii today. Good thumping bass for reggae


Bravo. One of my favorite pairings at home as well.


----------



## gazzington

MisterMudd said:


> Bravo. One of my favorite pairings at home as well.


I'm wondering if it's worth buying higher end Ty buds to see if I like those....
Good for work as I can still hear colleagues


----------



## HungryPanda

Buds are beautiful at any cost. I'm making some and I love them as must of the ones I have bought


----------



## purplesun

exavolt said:


> reminds me this https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2018/12/437281/teen-electrocuted-while-charging-mobile-phone


If true, that would be a catastrophic failure of the phone charger connecting the signal ground to AC live. But I find it odd that there's no mention of any forensic test done on the phone and charger. Won't take 2 minutes to test it with a multimeter. @palestofwhite seems to be describing some sort of capacitive discharge in his equipment leaking to signal ground, and not as serious as that news article. But safer to stick with non-conducting earphone shells in his situation.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have made them from 16 ohm to 600 ohm


----------



## mbwilson111

Yesterday's re-cabling  project (by HungryPanda)
Can't stop listening with them...

Cool shell....


----------



## chinmie

so I've just tested my Liebesleid and listened to this song...now I'll put it here to see how many grown men and women would have goosebumps and teary eyes after this


----------



## AndroidVageta

Was asked to post a pic of my recabled and semi-reshelled Baldoor/Mrice E100 (these are the originals that started the short craze a few years back):






Think it turned out pretty decently. Cable is just salvaged from a VE Monk Plus so nothing special but looks nicer than the original and it was messed up anyways so needed to be done. Fresh donut foams too, of course!


----------



## mbwilson111

AndroidVageta said:


> Think it turned out pretty decently. Cable is just salvaged from a VE Monk Plus so nothing special but looks nicer than the original and it was messed up anyways so needed to be done. Fresh donut foams too, of course!



Now you have made me want to get mine out.  I have never put foams on mine.  I wonder if I should.  I cannot use donut foams at all... they always shift in weird ways... so it is full foam or no foam for me... usually full foam.


----------



## kkl10 (Feb 25, 2019)

Finally got some time to compare the DIY SR2 16ohms (is this how it's called??), the Edifier H180 and Snow Lotus 1.0+ CE. All with donut foams.

I'd rank the H180 slightly below the other two. Sounds boomy and slightly muffled in comparison. The roughest and most fatiguing sound, but it's not a huge difference.

The other two are roughly on pair and it's tricky to decide which one I prefer. I'm able to somewhat enjoy the SL and the DIY on their own. I prefer the tonal balance and presentation of the DIY 16ohms by far, but the SL's smooth and sweet-sounding treble is so much better. Both have a relatively linear FR to my ears. The DIY 16ohms has perhaps a very slightly downward tilting tonal balance while the SL emphazises the upper mids/treble. I hear an annoying peak around 7k on the DIY and the SL has a bit too much energy around 3k. The DIY's neutral and laid back presentation sounds the most natural to me; the SL is more upfront, in your face. Despite this the SL sounds the least fatiguing/flat and maybe slightly more spatially resolving.

The DIY's almost perfect balance is spoiled by the 7K peak that makes it sound not entirely right and/or unremarkable up there. Not a huge flaw or difference, I'm just very intolerant of oddities up there because those are the most distracting to me. If I listen to the SL on its own, my only complain is the excessive emphasis at 3k. Just needs to be toned down a bit. Directly compared to the other two, the SL makes me crave a little more bass. Rolls off too early, but it's fine on its own. I find the SL to sound the most accomplished (the least compromised) at what it's trying to do. Somewhat sweet and engaging. Perhaps the most resolving, I think I hear a bit less grain. The DIY and H180 offer similar presentations. The DIY sounds tighter and cleaner than the H180. But I find the DIY to sound ever so slightly tinier than the other two... Not sure if it's down to driver size or the housings. It has the smallest housings.

SL sweet sound, treble and overall coherence + DIY 16ohms natural tonal balance and bass = happy kkl.


----------



## AndroidVageta

mbwilson111 said:


> Now you have made me want to get mine out.  I have never put foams on mine.  I wonder if I should.  I cannot use donut foams at all... they always shift in weird ways... so it is full foam or no foam for me... usually full foam.



Well you gotta try different fittings too...for me I have put them in sideways (speakers facing forward) to really get good sound out of them. If I put them in how I normally would (say with my Camp Fred 2's) they're very lacking in bass and a little too tinny.

Weird as hell and fitment:sound quality and just completely whack quality standards is why I stopped recommending them and pretty much talking about them in general. I got a good pair, I found a good fit, I get great sound...that's all I can say anymore lol.


----------



## jogawag (Feb 25, 2019)

kkl10 said:


> Finally got some time to compare the DIY SR2 16ohms (is this how it's called??), the Edifier H180 and Snow Lotus 1.0+ CE. All with donut foams.
> 
> I'd rank the H180 slightly below the other two. Sounds boomy and slightly muffled in comparison. The roughest and most fatiguing sound, but it's not a huge difference.
> 
> ...



I am making a double pad with a thin foam pad on the DIY SR2 and a donut pad on it.
This adjusts the size and makes the sound a little mild.
Of course, 100h burn-in is necessary!


----------



## mbwilson111

kkl10 said:


> I'd rank the H180 slightly below the other two



Of my Edifiers ( 180, 185, 190) I like my H190 the best.  I have not had the E180 long enough to burn it in though.  Need to give it some time.  Love the shell though.. could always put in different drivers at some point...if my modder is willing... lol.


----------



## kkl10 (Feb 25, 2019)

jogawag said:


> I am making a double pad with a thin foam pad on the DIY SR2 and a donut pad on it.
> This adjusts the size and makes the sound a little mild.
> Of course, 100h burn-in is necessary!



I'm not sure this will help with the peak, but I'll try. I felt full covering foams slightly muffled the sound in all the earbuds; don't know if those were thin or thick foams I tried. Don't think the sightly tinier sound is a fit issue either, but I might be wrong.


----------



## DBaldock9

viatraco said:


> @DBaldock9  ouch, that suprised me...I have just sold silver recabled Asura 2.0 to collect money for buying ZEN 2.0...I start doubt that was good idea. I thought that ZEN is significally step up in sound quality.
> Or maybe you wrote only about quantity of low/mid/treb and quality will be better ?





palestofwhite said:


> Don't worry about it. I'm sure you'll like the Zen if you enjoyed the Asura. To me, the Zen's bass already makes up for the difference.



As far as quality of sound, the ZEN 2.0 ZOE is great - and probably has a better overall balance.  
The ZEN Sound Stage is a bit closer and more intimate than the Asura.


----------



## AndroidVageta

Sooooo do we know of a KNOWN manufacturer of THICK DONUT foams? Something I can buy and be guaranteed to get what I want.


----------



## jogawag

AndroidVageta said:


> Sooooo do we know of a KNOWN manufacturer of THICK DONUT foams? Something I can buy and be guaranteed to get what I want.



Color donut foams.
I am using red and blue of this shop, and they are thicker and durable than Heigi 's Dounuts。
https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32683389893.html


----------



## AndroidVageta

So I've been listening to my Baldoor E100's and my Cypherus Audio Camp Fred 2's (which are 2.5mm balanced) through my Sabaj DA3 and I'm starting to sort of doubt earbuds audio prowess. My Shockwave 3 IEM's just seem to crush both pairs in nearly every way outside of sound stage (though I suspect if I made them balanced that might change a bit).

And when I say crush I mean I can pick up subtle sounds and nuances that neither pair of my buds can muster...even WITH equalization bringing up the mids and highs in the buds. 

Is this just me? I feel like my ear shape and all hold the buds really well and give me the "best" audio I can get from them...I've played with foams to a satisfying degree as well to determine what sounds best. Yet, at the end of the day both pairs are just sort of _alright _in comparison to the IEM.

Now, granted, the Shockwave 3's are a 5-driver hybrid (single 11mm dynamic for bass and four armatures for mids/highs) so maybe I'm being a bit unfair to the buds and the IEM's really are just THAT good but something like the Camp Fred 2 is touted as having a strong high-end but the only thing I've heard so far is a very warm and slightly muddy sound...nothing I do changes this.

Thoughts? Are buds just lacking and unable to match an IEM or do I just need to try something else? What's a genuinely BRIGHT and AIRY bud because the Camp Fred, despite its description and reviews ain't it.


----------



## Ira Delphic

waynes world said:


> The RW-9's sound fantastic. A bit more presence in the mids which sounds really nice (along with great bass and highs). Very engaging. For $15US. Sheesh.



Waynes World is spot on. My red RW-9 arrived today. Too busy listening to music to AB.


----------



## chinmie

AndroidVageta said:


> So I've been listening to my Baldoor E100's and my Cypherus Audio Camp Fred 2's (which are 2.5mm balanced) through my Sabaj DA3 and I'm starting to sort of doubt earbuds audio prowess. My Shockwave 3 IEM's just seem to crush both pairs in nearly every way outside of sound stage (though I suspect if I made them balanced that might change a bit).
> 
> And when I say crush I mean I can pick up subtle sounds and nuances that neither pair of my buds can muster...even WITH equalization bringing up the mids and highs in the buds.
> 
> ...



for picking up details, yes, usually the iems have upper hand because of the isolation and design. unless you listen the earbuds on a really quiet place.

earbuds are more a substitute for open headphones or speakers.

if you want bright and airy, the Edifier H185, Moondrop VX Pro, Liebesleid, Mojito, and maybe SWD2+ might fit the bill


----------



## gazzington

Hi
I'm after all your expert advice. I'm after some earbuds for work. Earbuds are better than iems for me so I can still hear my colleagues. They will be amped as I use a fiio A5 with an ibasso dx120.  I mainly listen to black metal but also loads of reggae, hip hop, jazz, classic rock etc. I can spend up to £150. What would you all recommend?


----------



## AndroidVageta

Despite me talking negatively above I would say the Cypherus Audio Camp Fred 2 is PRETTY good if you don't mind a warmer sound. Sound stage and bass really is some next-level stuff.


----------



## Qualcheduno

viatraco said:


> One more question about your list.
> I need mmcx earbuds. Which will be the best for Sennheiser Hd600 lovers ? Svara-L, TO400 or Ourart Ti7 ?


 Hi, I only own the Svara-L, and I don't recommend it for HD600 lovers because it has recessed mids (not crazy recessed, but still noticeable).


----------



## DBaldock9

Qualcheduno said:


> Hi, I only own the Svara-L, and I don't recommend it for HD600 lovers because it has recessed mids (not crazy recessed, but still noticeable).



Which Svara-L do you have?
I've got both models - the original 115Ω, and the more recent 32Ω.
The Midrange on the 115Ω version is quite recessed (makes it fairly dark sounding).
The Midrange on the 32Ω version has much less of a dip (it's probably my favorite sounding MMCX earbud - but it isn't the most comfortable in my ears).


----------



## Qualcheduno

DBaldock9 said:


> Which Svara-L do you have?
> I've got both models - the original 115Ω, and the more recent 32Ω.
> The Midrange on the 115Ω version is quite recessed (makes it fairly dark sounding).
> The Midrange on the 32Ω version has much less of a dip (it's probably my favorite sounding MMCX earbud - but it isn't the most comfortable in my ears).


I have the 32ohm version. Yes, it's not v-shaped but I still feel the mids are a bit recessed when compared to the two other frequencies. The HD600 has an emphasis in the mids, so the Svara-L wouldn't cut it.


----------



## acroyear

chinmie said:


> for picking up details, yes, usually the iems have upper hand because of the isolation and design. unless you listen the earbuds on a really quiet place.
> 
> earbuds are more a substitute for open headphones or speakers.
> 
> if you want bright and airy, the Edifier H185, Moondrop VX Pro, Liebesleid, Mojito, and maybe SWD2+ might fit the bill


I second the Moondrop VX Pro for bright and airy.  It sounds fantastic


----------



## jogawag (Feb 26, 2019)

AndroidVageta said:


> So I've been listening to my Baldoor E100's and my Cypherus Audio Camp Fred 2's (which are 2.5mm balanced) through my Sabaj DA3 and I'm starting to sort of doubt earbuds audio prowess. My Shockwave 3 IEM's just seem to crush both pairs in nearly every way outside of sound stage (though I suspect if I made them balanced that might change a bit).
> 
> And when I say crush I mean I can pick up subtle sounds and nuances that neither pair of my buds can muster...even WITH equalization bringing up the mids and highs in the buds.
> 
> ...





chinmie said:


> for picking up details, yes, usually the iems have upper hand because of the isolation and design. unless you listen the earbuds on a really quiet place.
> 
> earbuds are more a substitute for open headphones or speakers.
> 
> if you want bright and airy, the Edifier H185, Moondrop VX Pro, Liebesleid, Mojito, and maybe SWD2+ might fit the bill



I happen to have SW3, Edifier H 185, Moondrop VX Pro, Liebesleid, Mojito, SWD2+ (But SW3 and Liebesleid has already been sold).

I write my impressions below.
· SW3: It is a clear treble, but the bass is somewhat weak.
· Edifier H185: crisp and beautiful treble, really good details.
· Moondrop VX Pro: Neutrally and analytically with a really good sound stage. However, a somewhat heavy housing is too small so require rubber ring.
· Liebesleid: A beautiful well-developed treble. However, since it is too heavy housing, it is necessary to devise a comfortable wearing.And  it is too expensive.
· Mojito: The HIFI sound, resolution are overwhelming. However, since it is a special shape housing, it is necessary to devise a comfortable wearing. And  it is too expensive.
· SWD2+: It is slightly stiff treble, and its PK housing is easy to wear. However,  it is too expensive.

In conclusion, I think that Edifier H185 is the easiest to use and good.
If you have no resistance to using rubber ring, I think that Moondrop VX Pro is even better ......


----------



## Ira Delphic (Feb 26, 2019)

gazzington said:


> Hi
> I'm after all your expert advice. I'm after some earbuds for work. Earbuds are better than iems for me so I can still hear my colleagues. They will be amped as I use a fiio A5 with an ibasso dx120.  I mainly listen to black metal but also loads of reggae, hip hop, jazz, classic rock etc. I can spend up to £150. What would you all recommend?



I'm bumping your question since no replies. Please feel free to ignore my opinions 

I see in your profile that you have
Monk plus
Vidos
Philips SHE3800

I assume something must be lacking in those very decent earbuds. The one thing that stands out, at least for the Vido and SHE3800 is that they have cheap looking cable, plug etc. The Monk+ is a step up in that regard, but many of us prefer the others more.  Before jumping from £2 to £150, consider a spending around £20 -£30 for an earbud a few steps up in audio and build quality. I didn't purchase any earbuds last year, and my recent purchases have exceeded my expectations. Maybe earuds are getting better? My recent purchases have turned some of my old favorites into orphans.I suspect that some of the high end audio purchases are due to conspicuous consumption. You can spend that £150, and get amazing build quality - cable, shell, plug, but how much better will it be in terms of function? For that £150 will they be more comfortable? Fit is the one thing that spending extra $$$ won't improve.

Good luck and hopefully someone more knowledgeable myself will provide some solid suggestions.


----------



## waynes world

Ira Delphic said:


> Waynes World is spot on. My red RW-9 arrived today.



Glad you're enjoying them!



> Too busy listening to music to AB.




Thanks for posting that - very cool. Got me busy listening now


----------



## gazzington

Ira Delphic said:


> I'm bumping your question since no replies. Please feel free to ignore my opinions
> 
> I see in your profile that you have
> Monk plus
> ...


Thanks for your reply. I currently have Vido, emx500, snow lotus 2, monk plus, Zen, zen l, zen lol and ty hi-z 32. I like them all in different ways. I’m thinking as I liked the ty hi-z quite a lot I may get some 150s.  Are these decent?


----------



## jogawag (Feb 26, 2019)

gazzington said:


> Thanks for your reply. I currently have Vido, emx500, snow lotus 2, monk plus, Zen, zen l, zen lol and ty hi-z 32. I like them all in different ways. I’m thinking as I liked the ty hi-z quite a lot I may get some 150s.  Are these decent?



It is simple my impression of TY Hi-Z HP-150s(gold plated plug).
The low range is tight and has punch power.
The vocal range is smooth.
The high range also sounds good by V-shaped sound.
You can listen fun with a good soundstage.


----------



## j4100

gazzington said:


> Thanks for your reply. I currently have Vido, emx500, snow lotus 2, monk plus, Zen, zen l, zen lol and ty hi-z 32. I like them all in different ways. I’m thinking as I liked the ty hi-z quite a lot I may get some 150s.  Are these decent?



I agree with jogawag. I have the 2.5mm HP-150s and like them a lot.


----------



## sareer007

Can anyone compare SL 1.0+ with willsound mk2 ?


----------



## chinmie

jogawag said:


> I happen to have SW3, Edifier H 185, Moondrop VX Pro, Liebesleid, Mojito, SWD2+ (But SW3 and Liebesleid has already been sold).
> 
> I write my impressions below.
> · SW3: It is a clear treble, but the bass is somewhat weak.
> ...



me personally prefer the H185 to the VX Pro, because the VX Pro has a peak resonance that happens to hurt my ears to the point of ringing.also the fit is much more finicky than the H185. it is more airy than the H185 though


----------



## coolice

jogawag said:


> I happen to have SW3, Edifier H 185, Moondrop VX Pro, Liebesleid, Mojito, SWD2+ (But SW3 and Liebesleid has already been sold).
> 
> I write my impressions below.
> · SW3: It is a clear treble, but the bass is somewhat weak.
> ...


SW3 from Simphonio?


----------



## jogawag (Feb 26, 2019)

coolice said:


> SW3 from Simphonio?



SW3 is an IEM, ShockWave 3 from musicmaker.
ShockWave 3 is refered by @AndroidVageta first.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

sareer007 said:


> Can anyone compare SL 1.0+ with willsound mk2 ?


Hello,

I don't have the SL 1.0+. I have the SL 1.0 and the mk2. What I could say is that they are in a different tier. MK2 is supeior in all aspects. I could say that the MK2 can pair with my TY HI-Z 650.


----------



## 40760 (Feb 27, 2019)

K's K300 Samara is pretty nice. I can see why some prefer them over the Zen 2.0... 

EDIT: The bass is really impressive and on some tracks its literally reaching headphone levels. Built quality is really nice too and the cables are much softer than they look.


----------



## Palash

bhima said:


> Its looking like the Moonbuds Heron might be a slight upgrade to the Shozy BK. They are the ones I've been eyeing. I really like the BKs, but they can get a bit shouty. Their timbre is excellent though as is their balance of musical/analytical and their mids.


My review on Moonbuds Heron
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/moonbuds-heron-vs-moonbuds-nightshade.23383/reviews#review-21628


----------



## Palash

My review on OURART ACG
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ourart-acg.23536/reviews#review-21489


----------



## mochill

I am mind blown by the sound of these , top notch sound like a headphone with the best bass in an earbud. No tiny sound


----------



## waynes world

mochill said:


> I am mind blown by the sound of these , top notch sound like a headphone with the best bass in an earbud. No tiny sound



Cool! What are they?


----------



## mochill

Koss kde250


----------



## cathee

mochill said:


> Koss kde250



I just got these through Massdrop a week or so ago too. Finnicky lil fellas but the sound is very impressive. The bass is unbelievable for an "earbud", the highs could use a little help and they do respond quite well to EQ. It's a real shame they couldn't quite master the design aspect.


----------



## chinmie

mochill said:


> I am mind blown by the sound of these , top notch sound like a headphone with the best bass in an earbud. No tiny sound





cathee said:


> I just got these through Massdrop a week or so ago too. Finnicky lil fellas but the sound is very impressive. The bass is unbelievable for an "earbud", the highs could use a little help and they do respond quite well to EQ. It's a real shame they couldn't quite master the design aspect.



how do you compare them to other bassy earbuds like the Svara, Samsara, EMX500, etc?


----------



## waynes world

cathee said:


> I just got these through Massdrop a week or so ago too. Finnicky lil fellas but the sound is very impressive. The bass is unbelievable for an "earbud", the highs could use a little help and they do respond quite well to EQ. It's a real shame they couldn't quite master the design aspect.



Whacky gizmos:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/C1bMS84UJXS.mp4

I wouldn't really consider them "earbuds" since they seem to insert into the ear a bit. Having said that, they are kinda neat.

How much were thy on Massdrop?


----------



## mochill

chinmie said:


> how do you compare them to other bassy earbuds like the Svara, Samsara, EMX500, etc?


I don't have them , but compare to the kube 1 , way better mids and stage , for kube 2 , big bass the is powerful and , mids that has breath .


----------



## mochill

waynes world said:


> Whacky gizmos:
> https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/C1bMS84UJXS.mp4
> 
> I wouldn't really consider them "earbuds" since they seem to insert into the ear a bit. Having said that, they are kinda neat.
> ...


$59


waynes world said:


> Whacky gizmos:
> https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/C1bMS84UJXS.mp4
> 
> I wouldn't really consider them "earbuds" since they seem to insert into the ear a bit. Having said that, they are kinda neat.
> ...


$59


----------



## acroyear (Feb 27, 2019)

My White Ling arrived, but I had to return them because one driver had a rattle on deep bass notes.  The Toneking To600's however, are wonderful.  Airy and open, but not as much as my VX Pro... But the fullness of the sound and the bass response is really impressive.  The Black Lings that are on their way will have serious competition!  I'm hoping for even better bass.  I'm using a 2.5 balanced cable with the To600's.


----------



## 40760

acroyear said:


> My White Ling arrived, but I had to return them because one driver had a rattle on deep bass notes.  The Toneking To600's however, are wonderful.  Airy and open, but not as much as my VX Pro... But the fullness of the sound and the bass response is really impressive.  The Black Lings that are on their way will have serious competition!  I'm hoping for even better bass.  I'm using a 2.5 balanced cable with the To600's.



Try sucking on the affected driver of the Ling. It fixes most of my driver rattle issues.


----------



## acroyear

palestofwhite said:


> Try sucking on the affected driver of the Ling. It fixes most of my driver rattle issues.



Thank you.  It worked!  White Ling is sounding great now.  Rattle is gone.  Bassy, but mid centric I'd say.  More impressions later


----------



## 40760 (Feb 28, 2019)

acroyear said:


> Thank you.  It worked!  White Ling is sounding great now.  Rattle is gone.  Bassy, but mid centric I'd say.  More impressions later


Glad to be of help. I'm liking K's tuning for the Samsara. Really good! I'm sure the Lings must be impressive...


----------



## rkw

cathee said:


> I just got these through Massdrop a week or so ago too. Finnicky lil fellas but the sound is very impressive. The bass is unbelievable for an "earbud", the highs could use a little help and they do respond quite well to EQ. *It's a real shame they couldn't quite master the design aspect.*


By "design aspect" do you mean fit and ergonomics?


----------



## 40760

Missed my delivery of the Kube V1 and Elibuds Pearl... Have to collect them from the post office tomorrow...


----------



## Tarnum

Received RY4S Blue cable HI and Yincrow RW-9. 
RY4S is very good for its price, a little bit dry/thin sound & aggressive & bright but lack of nothing.  
RW-9 is a Nuforce EDC in earbud shape. Really excellent performance for given price. 
Waiting for SL1.0+CE....


----------



## Ira Delphic (Feb 28, 2019)

Tarnum said:


> Received RY4S Blue cable HI and Yincrow RW-9.
> RY4S is very good for its price, a little bit dry/thin sound & aggressive & bright but lack of nothing.
> RW-9 is a Nuforce EDC in earbud shape. Really excellent performance for given price.
> Waiting for SL1.0+CE....



Agreed, the RW-9 is pretty amazing. A slight step up from the SL 1+ CE for well produced music.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

My RW-9s just arrived in Canada today.  So I should have them in 1-6 weeks!  lol...


----------



## waynes world

Ira Delphic said:


> Agreed, the RW-9 is pretty amazing. A slight step up from the SL 1+ CE for well produced music.



I'm glad that myself, and more importantly ClieOS, are not on bad drugs! 



Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> My RW-9s just arrived in Canada today.  So I should have them in 1-6 weeks!  lol...



You're set now.. no more than 1 week


----------



## waynes world

Tarnum said:


> Received RY4S Blue cable HI and Yincrow RW-9.
> RY4S is very good for its price, a little bit dry/thin sound & aggressive & bright but lack of nothing.
> RW-9 is a Nuforce EDC in earbud shape. Really excellent performance for given price.
> Waiting for SL1.0+CE....



Also excellent!


----------



## mochill

I don't think I will be able to listen to thin earbuds anymore after getting a taste of the koss


----------



## cathee

chinmie said:


> how do you compare them to other bassy earbuds like the Svara, Samsara, EMX500, etc?



Completely different levels. 

Out of your list I've only heard the EMX500 and really liked them. So much so I eventually sold my ZoomFreds but these KOSS blows everything out of the water. Literally, the bass be like that. 



waynes world said:


> Whacky gizmos:
> https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/C1bMS84UJXS.mp4
> 
> I wouldn't really consider them "earbuds" since they seem to insert into the ear a bit. Having said that, they are kinda neat.
> ...



They were $60 on Massdrop - down from $250 MSRP 



rkw said:


> By "design aspect" do you mean fit and ergonomics?



Yes. I really like the idea of having seperate drivers for different frequency ranges but the implimentation here leaves much to be desired.


----------



## viatraco (Feb 28, 2019)

waynes world said:


> I'm glad that myself, and more importantly ClieOS, are not on bad drugs!
> 
> 
> 
> You're set now.. no more than 1 week



Mine RW-9 arrived today. 2 weeks from China to Poland.


----------



## rkw

cathee said:


> They were $60 on Massdrop - down from $250 MSRP


This is the 3rd or 4th time the Koss KSE250 has been on Massdrop (the first was over a year ago at $100). I passed on it because many reviews here and on Amazon reported fit problems because of its size, and that would likely be the case for me. It's too bad Koss didn't try to continue to refine this unique design.


----------



## 40760

mochill said:


> I don't think I will be able to listen to thin earbuds anymore after getting a taste of the koss



Do they happen to sound better than the KSC75?


----------



## mochill

palestofwhite said:


> Do they happen to sound better than the KSC75?


Yes indeed , I have ksc75 too


----------



## 40760 (Mar 1, 2019)

Pleasantly surprised and delighted by the sound presentation of both the Kube V1 and Elibuds Pearl. It's a must have for any earbuds enthusiast.

That bass and spaciousness...The Pearl are more controlled and refined, but the Kube V1 are just so much fun...


----------



## nickv

palestofwhite said:


> Pleasantly surprised and delighted by the sound presentation of both the Kube V1 and Elibuds Pearl. It's a must have for any earbuds enthusiast.
> 
> That bass and spaciousness...The Pearl are more controlled and refined, but the Kube V1 are just so much fun...



Still waiting/hoping for a Kube v1 restock


----------



## 40760

nickv said:


> Still waiting/hoping for a Kube v1 restock



I might get another pair if they do. Really good stuff for the price.


----------



## Willber

palestofwhite said:


> I might get another pair if they do. Really good stuff for the price.


Anyone who likes the Kube really should get the MS16. Similar signatures (Kube slightly bassier, MS16 a bit warmer in the mids) and soundstages - in fact the MS16 might be slightly wider. And at about 1/3 the price of the Kube they are a steal.


----------



## 40760

nickv said:


> Still waiting/hoping for a Kube v1 restock



Seller claims they're testing their current batch before releasing them for sale in the next few days.



Willber said:


> Anyone who likes the Kube really should get the MS16. Similar signatures (Kube slightly bassier, MS16 a bit warmer in the mids) and soundstages - in fact the MS16 might be slightly wider. And at about 1/3 the price of the Kube they are a steal.



My only gripe with the Kube V1 are the flimsy cables. I think the MS16 are better built overall...


----------



## acroyear

palestofwhite said:


> Glad to be of help. I'm liking K's tuning for the Samsara. Really good! I'm sure the Lings must be impressive...



They've only been burned in close to 30 hours, but I can tell you that they're a large step up for me from my Moondrop VX Pros.  Similar wide soundstage, but much better bass that extends DEEP.  They are very musical with a slightly elevated mid-range.  I prefer a more L shaped signature, which I can easily get by EQing them because the drivers put out bass so well.  Not my personal ideal signature without EQ, but with earbuds an L-shaped signature may be hard to come by? ... Next up, Monday the Black Ling version arrives.  Based on these White Ling, I know I won't be disappointed.  They are my first K's and I'm loving them.


----------



## 40760

acroyear said:


> They've only been burned in close to 30 hours, but I can tell you that they're a large step up for me from my Moondrop VX Pros.  Similar wide soundstage, but much better bass that extends DEEP.  They are very musical with a slightly elevated mid-range.  I prefer a more L shaped signature, which I can easily get by EQing them because the drivers put out bass so well.  Not my personal ideal signature without EQ, but with earbuds an L-shaped signature may be hard to come by? ... Next up, Monday the Black Ling version arrives.  Based on these White Ling, I know I won't be disappointed.  They are my first K's and I'm loving them.



I would have gotten a pair of Lings to try, if I've not already acquired 6 new pairs earbuds this year.


----------



## gazzington

Have they stopped making black ling now?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Mar 2, 2019)

palestofwhite said:


> My only gripe with the Kube V1 are the flimsy cables. I think the MS16 are better built overall...



But I love how the cable matches the shell.  Love my purple Kube


----------



## RobinFood

Willber said:


> Anyone who likes the Kube really should get the MS16. Similar signatures (Kube slightly bassier, MS16 a bit warmer in the mids) and soundstages - in fact the MS16 might be slightly wider. And at about 1/3 the price of the Kube they are a steal.



While the MS16 feels solid it also manages to feel cheap at the same time. I remember thinking that the cable was wrapped in garbage bags.

I never pull them out anymore. They are fun but a one trick pony. Some stuff sounds amazing out of them, others sound horrible.

It has a second trick though, gaming! If you have a quiet room and your pc fans aren't too loud they are the best for hearing footprints!


----------



## mbwilson111

RobinFood said:


> While the MS16 feels solid it also manages to feel cheap at the same time. I remember thinking that the cable was wrapped in garbage bags.
> 
> I never pull them out anymore. They are fun but a one trick pony. Some stuff sounds amazing out of them, others sound horrible.
> 
> It has a second trick though, gaming! If you have a quiet room and your pc fans aren't too loud they are the best for hearing footprints!



I have an MS16 on the way.... hope I like it.


----------



## RobinFood

mbwilson111 said:


> I have an MS16 on the way.... hope I like it.



For the price it is hard to be dissapounted.

You can rediscover a lot of your music in a different light and they have a great "wow" factor.

I absolutely loved Lorde's Melodrama on them.

It is just hard to choosd them over my MK2s for anything right now.


----------



## Willber

RobinFood said:


> While the MS16 feels solid it also manages to feel cheap at the same time. I remember thinking that the cable was wrapped in garbage bags.
> 
> I never pull them out anymore. They are fun but a one trick pony. Some stuff sounds amazing out of them, others sound horrible.
> 
> It has a second trick though, gaming! If you have a quiet room and your pc fans aren't too loud they are the best for hearing footprints!


I'm not suggesting they are world-beaters, but for their price they are outstanding. They are better in overall sound IMO than all my other metal buds (AG RX-1, EO320, MEMT T5, EB2, **** PT25) which cost ~5x as much. And the build is solid if not the best finished. But for $6? No problem. They are firmly in my top 3 favourites and currently my daily drivers.

I don't like the cable, though!


----------



## mbwilson111

RobinFood said:


> For the price it is hard to be dissapounted.
> 
> You can rediscover a lot of your music in a different light and they have a great "wow" factor.
> 
> ...



Have you seen how many buds I have?  I never know what to choose anymore.  Crazy.


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> But I love how the cable matches the shell.  Love my purple Kube



Maybe because I have the black pair...


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Hello Folks!

I'm trying to find the Kube 1 to buy... Do you have the link? Btw, Penon is sending back my repaired TY HI-Z 650. They spent more than one month to repair it.

Cheers,

Marcos Fontana


----------



## RobinFood (Mar 2, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Have you seen how many buds I have?  I never know what to choose anymore.  Crazy.



Haha, good point!

I can't buy another bud anymore personally. Everything I tried after my current bud has dissapointed me.



Willber said:


> I'm not suggesting they are world-beaters, but for their price they are outstanding. They are better in overall sound IMO than all my other metal buds (AG RX-1, EO320, MEMT T5, EB2, **** PT25) which cost ~5x as much. And the build is solid if not the best finished. But for $6? No problem. They are firmly in my top 3 favourites and currently my daily drivers.
> 
> I don't like the cable, though!



They are definately special, and when I got them at first they were my top buds for the longest time. One of the best 6$ I ever spent. But some songs REALLY don't work with them. The bass seems to reverb and echo forever and fast music is overwhelming and muddy.

I guess that is the nice thing about buds though, I have a few pairs that sound really great with some types of music.

BTW have you taken off the grill in the back?
It is an aluminium foil sticker. Opens the sound even more if you can imagine, but it looks bad.


----------



## Willber

RobinFood said:


> They are definately special, and when I got them at first they were my top buds for the longest time. One of the best 6$ I ever spent. But some songs REALLY don't work with them. The bass seems to reverb and echo forever and fast music is overwhelming and muddy.


Strange, I don't find them reverby or muddy at all. Mine are recent so perhaps they changed. But anyway, as you say:


RobinFood said:


> I guess that is the nice thing about buds though, I have a few pairs that sound really great with some types of music.


Yep, can't argue with that.


RobinFood said:


> BTW have you taken off the grill in the back?
> It is an aluminium foil sticker. Opens the sound even more if you can imagine, but it looks bad.


No, I haven't removed the grill yet. When my spare set arrives I plan to give it a try.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> Strange, I don't find them reverby or muddy at all. Mine are recent so perhaps they changed.



My white one was ordered on Feb.21st.  Not sure where it is now.  I think it shipped. The listing says 2017 New Headroom MS16.  Were there older ones than that.  I only wish there had been a no mic version.


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> My white one was ordered on Feb.21st.  Not sure where it is now.  I think it shipped. The listing says 2017 New Headroom MS16.  Were there older ones than that.  I only wish there had been a no mic version.


I think they came out in 2017 but the originals had a blue cable. I don't know if anything else has changed.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> I think they came out in 2017 but the originals had a blue cable. I don't know if anything else has changed.



Did the originals ONLY have a blue cable choice?  My husband has those so we can compare... well he can.  I don't like to try to a-b stuff.  It never works out for me.  I  just end up listening to the music.


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> Did the originals ONLY have a blue cable choice?  My husband has those so we can compare... well he can.  I don't like to try to a-b stuff.  It never works out for me.  I  just end up listening to the music.


I think blue was the only option.
It will be interesting to hear the comparison.


----------



## ostewart

Here's my take on the Simphonio Dragon 2+
http://www.soundperfectionreviews.com/2019/03/review-simphonio-dragon-2-earbuds.html


----------



## waynes world

mochill said:


> I am mind blown by the sound of these , top notch sound like a headphone with the best bass in an earbud. No tiny sound





cathee said:


> I just got these through Massdrop a week or so ago too. Finnicky lil fellas but the sound is very impressive. The bass is unbelievable for an "earbud", the highs could use a little help and they do respond quite well to EQ. It's a real shame they couldn't quite master the design aspect.



Here is a quote from an amazon review:
https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/B00WUEFDRO?reviewerType=all_reviews


> Onto the sound. These things sound great. The highs and lows are accurate, and *the sound is definitely on the bright side*. I've found that they work very nicely on my Iphone 5 and computer, but don't sound great on my aged and quite disposable ipod nano from a few years back. You'll hear new things on certain tracks if you're used to low end headphones and speakers. I think my biggest problem with these is that although the sound is very accurate, and the volume you can get from these is great,* there's not a whole lot of impact to the bass*. I think maybe i'm spoiled by my Koss Portapros, but I don't FEEL the bass like I want to. Again, you definitely won't miss out on any of the low frequencies, but they won't have that satisfying thump to them either.



Based on your impressions, I have a feeling that this review should not be taken too seriously. Would you agree?


----------



## Ira Delphic

Willber said:


> Anyone who likes the Kube really should get the MS16. Similar signatures (Kube slightly bassier, MS16 a bit warmer in the mids) and soundstages - in fact the MS16 might be slightly wider. And at about 1/3 the price of the Kube they are a steal.



Realized I don't own any earbuds with volume control, only Monk+ with mic and pause. In for a pair.


----------



## rkw

waynes world said:


> Here is a quote from an amazon review:
> https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/B00WUEFDRO?reviewerType=all_reviews
> 
> Based on your impressions, I have a feeling that this review should not be taken too seriously. Would you agree?


"should not be taken too seriously" is being rather dismissive. The reviewer seemed sincere about reporting his experience, and another Amazon review also complained about the bass, so it is not an isolated case. When the KDE250 first appeared on Massdrop, I looked at a lot of reviews and the consistent comment (even from those who loved the sound) was that it is a difficult fit. This may make the bass highly variable for different people.

There are a couple of dedicated threads on Head-Fi. Interesting that it's been around since 2009.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/koss-kde-250-owners-club-the-privileged-few.581241/
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/koss-kde-250.412952/


----------



## waynes world

rkw said:


> "should not be taken too seriously" is being rather dismissive. The reviewer seemed sincere about reporting his experience, and another Amazon review also complained about the bass, so it is not an isolated case. When the KDE250 first appeared on Massdrop, I looked at a lot of reviews and the consistent comment (even from those who loved the sound) was that it is a difficult fit. This may make the bass highly variable for different people.
> 
> There are a couple of dedicated threads on Head-Fi. Interesting that it's been around since 2009.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/koss-kde-250-owners-club-the-privileged-few.581241/
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/koss-kde-250.412952/



Great info. Thanks.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 2, 2019)

Holy crap that was a long read, around 350 new messages since I last visited here. Of course I just had to read em all... 

My ears are slowly recovering I think, no more pain \o/ but still sensitive so not using buds for a few months. The tinnitus has faded into the background now, not really causeing me distress. Just waiting to get my normal hearing sensitivity back so I can enjoy music again and be more sensible about my noise levels 

Onto the good stuff, got my SL1.0+ CE. Listening without really listening critically or for extended time. Nice balanced sound, warm but slightly relaxed bass, neutral mids. Treble has tonnes of air!!! It's not too bright nor harsh, but super airy so it obviously has presence in the upper treble. Cymbals sound intense but nice. Really nice reference type tuning on these, details galore.

Still didn't get to post my mod for the WS mk2 to make the bass more linear and possibly deeper (or at least as deep without the mid bass bloat) but I haven't touched any earbuds for weeks now. Maybe I'll post about it once I get back into it.



acroyear said:


> I have four different earbuds in transit to me right now.
> 
> Toneking to600
> K's White Ling
> ...


You bought two black lings? Wow.

I just hope you like it's sound sig, it's a little polarizing for some. I'm still looking to mod mine to tame the 1-2khz range which is insanely boosted on my unit until I let the driver become open back by removing the shell (so its a chamber resonance issue).

But maybe yours will be smoother there and you'll love it, all these drivers can have variation, it's a very resolving driver with lots of bass which is nice!


chinmie said:


> so I've just tested my Liebesleid and listened to this song...now I'll put it here to see how many grown men and women would have goosebumps and teary eyes after this



Dude I was about to post a YT performance like this about Aurora like a week ago, she's got a unique style maybe in a similar vein to Kate Bush but definitely does her own thing on the tracks I've heard, she'll go far


----------



## purplesun

seanc6441 said:


> Holy crap that was a long read, around 350 new messages since I last visited here. Of course I just had to read em all...
> My ears are slowly recovering I think, no more pain \o/ but still sensitive so not using buds for a few months. The tinnitus has faded into the background now, not really causeing me distress. Just waiting to get my normal hearing sensitivity back so I can enjoy music again and be more sensible about my noise levels


I was wondering why I got a "like" for a post from quite a while ago. You ain't lyin' about reading them all!
Take it easy on the ears. No IEMs and closed headphones for now, and definitely no loud concerts for the next couple of months.


----------



## acroyear

seanc6441 said:


> You bought two black lings? Wow.
> 
> I just hope you like it's sound sig, it's a little polarizing for some. I'm still looking to mod mine to tame the 1-2khz range which is insanely boosted on my unit until I let the driver become open back by removing the shell (so its a chamber resonance issue).



Welcome back.  Glad to know you're on the mend.  "insanely boosted"?? You've got me a little worried!  How does it compare to the White Ling?  Is it more boosted than on those?


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 3, 2019)

acroyear said:


> Welcome back.  Glad to know you're on the mend.  "insanely boosted"?? You've got me a little worried!  How does it compare to the White Ling?  Is it more boosted than on those?


Never heard the white ling, but honestly speaking my black ling had glaring issues. I had to send it back for a driver repair (right driver was rattling and had that huge spike (like +5-8db spike) at 1500hz that was painful. Once I got them back that was fixed, but the shell design seems to have a peak around that frequency so there was still a 2-3 db boost on both channels which gave vocals this very agressive forwardness, which did cause some harshness on some tracks.

The issue is less the driver and more the shell. If I can get the second driver open like the first did, I would turn them into an open back design by drilling ports around the shell. The tuning doesn't change much because the filter paper behind the driver is quiet thick so that determines the most of the tuning. But removing some of the closed cup properties seems to really help alievate the boosted midrange and adds this fullness to the low mids that I personally look for in an earbud so I can pair with thin foams for a more open sound.

On the plus side, if your unit does not have such a boosted 1-2khz region, the rest of the spectrum is really quiet well balanced and smooth. With only a slight dip in the low mids and another at around 3khz which removes any harsh upper mids (but also subdues some upper vocal detail slightly). Nonetheless the driver is pretty well resolving so you'll pick up plenty of detail that's hidden in some other earbuds.

So all I can say is try them out for youself and see what you think.


----------



## Willber

Kube v1 now back in stock:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223432581571


----------



## Carrow

Anyone here heard or maybe even still have the Sony Fontopia MDR-E434? It's HELLA vintage for this hobby but I've been offered a pair in a trade!


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Willber said:


> Kube v1 now back in stock:
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223432581571


Ty!

I got 2. Hurry up folks!


----------



## acroyear

seanc6441 said:


> The issue is less the driver and more the shell.



That makes sense, because the White Ling is the same shell, and has aggressive vocals that only bother me when I play them too loud on tracks with certain vocals.  The only reason I play them a little too loud is to get more bass.  If the Black Ling have more bass than those, I'll probably be really happy with them.


----------



## seanc6441

acroyear said:


> That makes sense, because the White Ling is the same shell, and has aggressive vocals that only bother me when I play them too loud on tracks with certain vocals.  The only reason I play them a little too loud is to get more bass.  If the Black Ling have more bass than those, I'll probably be really happy with them.


Well from other accounts it does have more bass.

Also, if you're not a bit perfect purist, a simple targetted EQ at that peak would remove all harsness. So there's that.


----------



## nickv

Willber said:


> Kube v1 now back in stock:
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223432581571


Thanks. Couple of colours ordered!


----------



## acroyear

seanc6441 said:


> Well from other accounts it does have more bass.
> 
> Also, if you're not a bit perfect purist, a simple targetted EQ at that peak would remove all harsness. So there's that.



I used MSEB and lowered the vocal forwardness setting.  Worked perfectly on the White Ling, I was just hoping to not use that on the Black.


----------



## doggiemom (Mar 3, 2019)

Received Athena from QLabs.  They are comfy and the vents are color coded for easy distinguishing between right and left.

Sound wise, I am not sure they are for me.  They are fairly bassy for this type of shell, and the highs are sparkly, but are a bit too bright, especially with pop.  These buds are detailed, but sound a bit unnatural to me.

In fairness, recommended burn in time is a week. Also, I’ve been listening to a lot of vinyl lately, so my brain is expecting a warm, mid-centric sound.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> Kube v1 now back in stock:
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223432581571



I ordered an orange Kube1 to replace the one that was lost by the Royal Mail over a month ago plus another orange for my husband.  He already has a blue one and I have a purple one.   I also ordered a white one for a possible recable... with something that looks really cool (don't have it yet).


----------



## j4100

doggiemom said:


> Received Athena from QLabs.  They are comfy and the vents are color coded for easy distinguishing between right and left.
> 
> Sound wise, I am not sure they are for me.  They are fairly bassy for this type of shell, and the highs are sparkly, but are a bit too bright, especially with pop.  These buds are detailed, but sound a bit unnatural to me.
> 
> In fairness, recommended burn in time is a week. Also, I’ve been listening to a lot of vinyl lately, so my brain is expecting a warm, mid-centric sound.



I've been eyeing this one for a while. I'd be interested in what you think after a little burn in.


----------



## j4100

Nice to see you on the mend Sean.


----------



## B9Scrambler

The new (and still unreleased?) Astrotec Lyra Nature warms up the signature a bit, ditches the useless airplane adapter, and has removable cables. Cool beans!

Head-Fi / The Contraptionist

  ​


----------



## doggiemom

j4100 said:


> I've been eyeing this one for a while. I'd be interested in what you think after a little burn in.


To be honest, I am terrible about burn in.  I never do it, and haven't made up my mind as to whether or not it makes a difference (other than brain burn in).  I do think it is worth trying these with the KANN, as it is a lot darker than the Hiby - may be a better match.  Will let you know.  

Also got Willsound MK3 VJC in the same package so want to try them next.


----------



## groucho69

B9Scrambler said:


> The new (and still unreleased?) Astrotec Lyra Nature warms up the signature a bit, ditches the useless airplane adapter, and has removable cables. Cool beans!
> 
> Head-Fi / The Contraptionist
> 
> ​



Grumble grumble. Why did I read it. I need to start saving.....again.


----------



## j4100

doggiemom said:


> To be honest, I am terrible about burn in.  I never do it, and haven't made up my mind as to whether or not it makes a difference (other than brain burn in).  I do think it is worth trying these with the KANN, as it is a lot darker than the Hiby - may be a better match.  Will let you know.
> 
> Also got Willsound MK3 VJC in the same package so want to try them next.



Yeah, I kind of gave up burning in and just listen to them. Enjoy the Mk3 - love the VJC cable. I have that on my Mk2 and the Crow Raven


----------



## subwoof3r

Anyone got any answer from Lee (VEclan) recently ?
I'm waiting since more than a month an answer from him but nothing.. I tried to message him twice between weeks but still nothing. I'm getting worried, maybe he is dead?


----------



## mbwilson111

subwoof3r said:


> Anyone got any answer from Lee (VEclan) recently ?
> I'm waiting since more than a month an answer from him but nothing.. I tried to message him twice between weeks but still nothing. I'm getting worried, maybe he is dead?



He posted on his FB group a few hours ago so I am pretty sure he is alive


----------



## j4100

subwoof3r said:


> Anyone got any answer from Lee (VEclan) recently ?
> I'm waiting since more than a month an answer from him but nothing.. I tried to message him twice between weeks but still nothing. I'm getting worried, maybe he is dead?



He posted a while back that he was stepping back from being directly involved with sorting out orders, etc, due to other VE work. Send them an email via their website if you need an answer.


----------



## subwoof3r

j4100 said:


> Send them an email via their website if you need an answer.


Yup, that's what I did but still no answer. Maybe he just don't want to reply me anymore  if it's that, I will avoid VEclan for life. Just need to be sure it's the case
Thanks for your replies


----------



## j4100

subwoof3r said:


> Yup, that's what I did but still no answer. Maybe he just don't want to reply me anymore  if it's that, I will avoid VEclan for life. Just need to be sure it's the case
> Thanks for your replies



I assume you also tried a pm on FB? If you have no further luck in getting contact. You might post a polite message on the VE FB page asking who to contact since you have had no reply. I say polite, as I'm sure you have seen what happens to other posts!


----------



## RobinFood

subwoof3r said:


> Yup, that's what I did but still no answer. Maybe he just don't want to reply me anymore  if it's that, I will avoid VEclan for life. Just need to be sure it's the case
> Thanks for your replies



I had a similar issue with VEClan. I got the Odyssey and couldn't get it to work. I sent a message and waited a week with no response. Thankfully the head-fi community helped me to get it working well, but it was the worst CS experience I've ever had.

I am almost tempted to log on the VE website and see if I have a response for that question...


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 4, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> Anyone got any answer from Lee (VEclan) recently ?
> I'm waiting since more than a month an answer from him but nothing.. I tried to message him twice between weeks but still nothing. I'm getting worried, maybe he is dead?


He posted something about his daughter having to get treatment for a leg injury so he was busy with personal stuff I'd imagine.

Or maybe he's just stepping back from VE customer service side and leaving it to other staff like he suggested to doing recently.


----------



## jant71

Anyone know something about these...https://penonaudio.com/isn-audio-rambo.html

Straight plug with nice looking cable and PK housing appeals to me. Description is kinda vague though does seem to not be the neutral style tuning and may be good straight HO and turning up the volume some on the go which appeals to me as well. Not cheap enough to just try w/o some sound impressions.


----------



## seanc6441

jant71 said:


> Anyone know something about these...https://penonaudio.com/isn-audio-rambo.html
> 
> Straight plug with nice looking cable and PK housing appeals to me. Description is kinda vague though does seem to not be the neutral style tuning and may be good straight HO and turning up the volume some on the go which appeals to me as well. Not cheap enough to just try w/o some sound impressions.


*"Description*

Smooth Bass, Laid-Back Vocals, Relaxing Treble."

That's not what I expected from an earbud named RAMBO!


----------



## jant71 (Mar 4, 2019)

^Yeah, smooth enough to come alive some when out and needing more volume is for me. Neutral buds most times don't have the body to spare and get harsh.  That description kinda gives some hope but on that front but not much more. Still doesn't even give a signature description cause smooth bass is fine but that isn't saying much about it. Rambo does sound like they should have some weight, punch and beef to them  though Rambo was kinda laid back and wanted to be left alone till you pushed him.


----------



## audio123 (Mar 4, 2019)

Brief impression of the ISN Rambo: Bass is articulated well and it is not very deep. Very controlled expression. Sweet midrange with a tinge of warmth, male vocals are expressed in a lush manner, female vocals are not the most forward. Treble is smooth with moderate extension. There is an apt amount of air rendered. I personally enjoy it due to the relaxing nature and it provides a soothing performance overall with a fatigue-free listening. Hope this helps! Enjoy & Happy Listening, as always. 

P.S. I personally feel it's hard not to like the Rambo due to its soothing sound.


----------



## Stenso

Purple Kube ordered, you good people are inspirational!


----------



## mbwilson111

Stenso said:


> Purple Kube ordered, you good people are inspirational!



I noticed that now there is only one purple Kube left.  You were lucky to get one!


----------



## MelodyMood

seanc6441 said:


> He posted something about his daughter having to get treatment for a leg injury so he was busy with personal stuff I'd imagine.
> 
> Or maybe he's just stepping back from VE customer service side and leaving it to other staff like he suggested to doing recently.


I also go his reply few days ago about Monk+. I asked him if the Monk+ available with other sellers are same what he has or they are just using the name. He confirmed that they are not original Monk+ product of VE and just using the name so not sure how good or bad they are. I am eager to try them as I did not like Original Monk+ much. Hope the other one may be better. Even if it is slightly better in terms of Bass and fit, I guess it will be good deal.


----------



## MelodyMood

Good Morning Friends. Hope all are doing well.


----------



## mochill

So I finally received my happy plug and Jvc ivory and black earbuds.


----------



## mochill

Best bass comes from happyplug the black Jvc then ivory


----------



## MelodyMood

mochill said:


> Best bass comes from happyplug the black Jvc then ivory


What is JVC Happyplug and Ivory? WHich earbuds? Any link?


----------



## mochill

https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showuser=8394


----------



## doggiemom

MelodyMood said:


> I also go his reply few days ago about Monk+. I asked him if the Monk+ available with other sellers are same what he has or they are just using the name. He confirmed that they are not original Monk+ product of VE and just using the name so not sure how good or bad they are. I am eager to try them as I did not like Original Monk+ much. Hope the other one may be better. Even if it is slightly better in terms of Bass and fit, I guess it will be good deal.


This is just my opinion, so please do not take offense........ If you do not like Monk+, perhaps you should consider trying some other brands, rather than support someone who is trying to make money off of name recognition built by someone else's labor.  Someone may purchase the Monk+ based on its reviews and reputation but instead get something of unknown origin and quality.  I don't think it does consumers any good to support counterfeiters, whether it be purses, jeans or earbuds.  Just my 2 cents.


----------



## MelodyMood

doggiemom said:


> This is just my opinion, so please do not take offense........ If you do not like Monk+, perhaps you should consider trying some other brands, rather than support someone who is trying to make money off of name recognition built by someone else's labor.  Someone may purchase the Monk+ based on its reviews and reputation but instead get something of unknown origin and quality.  I don't think it does consumers any good to support counterfeiters, whether it be purses, jeans or earbuds.  Just my 2 cents.


No. That's fine. I was just telling that this is the reply I got from him some time ago.


----------



## Lucser (Mar 5, 2019)

Recently received Yincrow RW-9 ans SL 1.0+ CE. Favorite so far Yincrow RW-9. Very enjoyable sound, not dark, not bright just balanced clear sound with a touch of warmth. Very pleasant, fatigue free listening.
SL also clean sound, nothing going wrong but Yincrow RW-9 has something extra. It seems that the soundstage is more extended. Both have good detail and resolution, with a plus to SL but, the Yincrow RW-9 has a bit more spacious sound.
At least these are first impressions after listening ~ 10-20 hours each in ~1hour shifts. Maybe with some time some characteristics will change. Also not critical listening, just casual use while reading, browsing...
Both have nice cable but different style: Yincrow RW-9 4 thin core braided cable (feel delicate especially at earbud side where are only 2cores); SL 1.0+ CE much sturdier, with nice stress release at the lug side.
Nevertheless both worth the price.


----------



## seanc6441

I really like the compact full metal plug on the SL 1.0+. Great quality for such a budget product. The suede carry bag is pretty nice too.

You don't get that quality at this price point usually.

Any one know where to get that plug separately? Would be nice for some diy cables.


----------



## HungryPanda

These ones are quite slim

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...-DIP-3-9mm-tail-mouth/323026_32620854249.html


----------



## waynes world (Mar 5, 2019)

Lucser said:


> Recently received Yincrow RW-9 ans SL 1.0+ CE. Favorite so far Yincrow RW-9. Very enjoyable sound, not dark, not bright just balanced clear sound with a touch of warmth. Very pleasant, fatigue free listening.
> SL also clean sound, nothing going wrong but Yincrow RW-9 has something extra. It seems that the soundstage is more extended. Both have good detail and resolution, with a plus to SL but, the Yincrow RW-9 has a bit more spacious sound.
> At least these are first impressions after listening ~ 10-20 hours each in ~1hour shifts. Maybe with some time some characteristics will change. Also not critical listening, just casual use while reading, browsing...
> Both have nice cable but different style: Yincrow RW-9 4 thin core braided cable (feel delicate especially at earbud side where are only 2cores); SL 1.0+ CE much sturdier, with nice stress release at the lug side.
> Nevertheless both worth the price.



Excellent impressions. They coincide with mine, except that I couldn't articulate them nearly as well! 

A week or so ago, I tried out the ANN200 earbud. I hadn't heard of them, but @nick n lent me his pair that he got it from the seller of the Sabia's and Kubes (jultoptau).

I ab'd them with the SL 1.0+ CE and Yincrow RW-9 for about a week, and it drove me nuts because they are all so good. The ANN200's are more like the RW-9's though, but are a bit more forward in general, and have more kick to the bass (ie kick drums). They sound damned good to my ears.

After sending them back to Nick, I missed them immediately. Nick managed to get jultoptau to make them available to the masses, which they are now:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Earbud-ANN200-Earphone-Unique-MX500-Shell-Classic-Sound/223432572030






There's the "black cable straight plug" and "black cable bent plug" and "silver straight plug" variants. I went with the "black bent" (same as the one I tried out) and as a backup, the "silver straight" which apparently has a bit more soundstage.

Limited supply as far as I can tell. Fyi, I have no affiliation with jultoptau - I just appreciate the buds that he/she has been supplying


----------



## Ira Delphic (Mar 5, 2019)

RobinFood said:


> While the MS16 feels solid it also manages to feel cheap at the same time. I remember thinking that the cable was wrapped in garbage bags.
> 
> I never pull them out anymore. They are fun but a one trick pony. Some stuff sounds amazing out of them, others sound horrible.
> 
> It has a second trick though, gaming! If you have a quiet room and your pc fans aren't too loud they are the best for hearing footprints!



I justified the MS16's $6 price for audiobook listening. It's handy to have volume control, stop/pause. If the quality of the sound produced is unique or very good for some genres of music, that's icing on the cake!


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> There's the "black cable straight plug" and "black cable bent plug" and "silver straight plug" variants. I went with the "black bent" (same as the one I tried out) and as a backup, the "silver straight" which apparently has a bit more soundstage.



I ordered the black straight cable (always choose straight with no mic whenever I have a choice) and also ordered the black bent for @HungryPanda.    Ordered a spare Kube2 while I was at it.... and of course I also have the order for three more Kube1.   Now we wait and have to trust the mail system.

I know we will like them.   I trust your ears and Nicks.

I love how he tells the history of these buds.  Not many sellers give that much info.  Also he tests each one to make sure it works before listing them.


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> I know we will like them.   I trust your ears and Nicks.



Brave souls! 



> I love how he tells the history of these buds.  Not many sellers give that much info.  Also he tests each one to make sure it works before listing them.



Right! Here is that history:


----------



## GREQ

waynes world said:


> Brave souls!
> 
> 
> 
> Right! Here is that history:


As another truster of these ears, I bought one.
Of course I will again post measurements when it arrives.


----------



## DBaldock9

subwoof3r said:


> Anyone got any answer from Lee (VEclan) recently ?
> I'm waiting since more than a month an answer from him but nothing.. I tried to message him twice between weeks but still nothing. I'm getting worried, maybe he is dead?



His daughter was recently injured (not seriously), and he's been busy with new products (according to one of his recent posts on the VE Clan Facebook group).
He does seem to post answers to questions on the Facebook group - maybe he gets so many PMs, that he's just behind in answering messages.


----------



## waynes world

GREQ said:


> As another truster of these ears, I bought one.



Oh oh, no pressure!



> Of course I will again post measurements when it arrives.



That would be great. Thanks.


----------



## GREQ

waynes world said:


> Oh oh, no pressure!
> 
> 
> 
> That would be great. Thanks.


Ah it's fine, just blame nick n if it all goes balls-up.


----------



## waynes world

GREQ said:


> Ah it's fine, just blame nick n if it all goes balls-up.



Oh yeah, that was definitely my plan lol!


----------



## Carrow

Anyone in here familiar with, or even HAVE, a pair of Sony MDR-E434 buds? I've a pair on the way once I complete a trade with someone on here(he gets one of my amps I don't need and 40 USD, I get the buds). I hear they're pretty good, but I'm wondering, what's the speaker diameter like? I might want to (probably will) use foams with these, and am wondering what sort of size I'd need to put on 'em. Might even recable them if the J-cable is egregiously bad like on those JVC Victors I sent off to Stiks Audio a few weeks back. Any tips? Thanks


----------



## groucho69

$50 on EBAY


----------



## HungryPanda

Just received the RY4C earbuds today for the tidy sum of £2.33 shipped from China ordered on the 22nd February. Nice shells, cable is a little rubbery but absolutely fine. I'm surprised at the bass on these little things gives a good thump, mids are fine and highs are crystal clear giving good air but well controlled. Bargain of the year (I know it's early)


----------



## nick n (Mar 5, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I ordered the black straight cable (always choose straight with no mic whenever I have a choice) and also ordered the black bent for @HungryPanda.  *  Ordered a spare Kube2 *while I was at it.... and of course I also have the order for three more Kube1.   Now we wait and have to trust the mail system.



It's funny how few people have posted their impressions on the KUBE2, though I guess not many have sold so far, which is surprising.
As far as the KUBE1 well, what can be said about that except *what the heck *the guy can't keep them in stock fast enough!
Packing up stuff  and sending things out here and there is fun, but _ that much_ , no thanks.



waynes world said:


> Brave souls!
> 
> Right! Here is that history:


 To clarify there, well basically expand upon the description, as I undertsand it the ANN maker for some reason does not sell, to anyone,  any of them in batches, only one at at time.
Sort of one per person per order thing.
This is what was meant here in his auction description.
Apparently I was told this has always been the case at least more recently, so unknown if this can happen again ( I don't know anyhow how he managed to convince the manufacturer ).
The one up on the listing now is their latest/newest effort, even though the company has been doing variations on this model since 1997 !



GREQ said:


> Ah it's fine, just blame nick n if it all goes balls-up.



This pressure is getting too much. I had best set aside  some $ for my "special friend's emergency dislike money-back guarantee fund"!
I'll just say you bought the wrong cable type and blame it entirely on that. LOL


I was lucky enough to have the right timing with a shipment ( I do seem to get lots of spares for people close by here ).
There's not many headphones I have heard that manage to stop me in my tracks while I am doing something and just sit there listening and having a "What is this going on here"moment.
 and then afterwards get me moving around.
Some spooky stuff I heard on a couple things in the tracks.
I can count a small handfull in well over a hundred.
Call it synergy,  the album ( which I have heard many times prior ) or whatever it was so good.
I had to try to make sure some other folks got a chance to check these out.
I would like to think my feedback helped in some way convince him to not be hesitant and wrangle a supply somehow and get them available
but I'm not taking any credit.



^ Talk about spares...notice anything else in the package below it 




HungryPanda said:


> Just received the RY4C earbuds today for the tidy sum of £2.33 shipped from China ordered on the 22nd February. Nice shells, cable is a little rubbery but absolutely fine. I'm surprised at the bass on these little things gives a good thump, mids are fine and highs are crystal clear giving good air but well controlled. Bargain of the year (I know it's early)


How is that even possible to send and make that for such a low cost. I DO LOVE the minimalist design exspecially tthe straight tubes.
Reminds me of some sort of architectural designer thing.
The BRAUN of buds.
Dieter Rams would be proud.
Will look for those in the regular channels thanks for the images and post.


----------



## snip3r77

HungryPanda said:


> Just received the RY4C earbuds today for the tidy sum of £2.33 shipped from China ordered on the 22nd February. Nice shells, cable is a little rubbery but absolutely fine. I'm surprised at the bass on these little things gives a good thump, mids are fine and highs are crystal clear giving good air but well controlled. Bargain of the year (I know it's early)



compared to vido and RY4S UE? tsk tsk


----------



## HungryPanda

Better than vido, nearly as good as it's big brother the RY4S


----------



## nick n

Is there a source for them that is a little easier than Ali etc?


----------



## golov17

Carrow said:


> Anyone in here familiar with, or even HAVE, a pair of Sony MDR-E434 buds? I've a pair on the way once I complete a trade with someone on here(he gets one of my amps I don't need and 40 USD, I get the buds). I hear they're pretty good, but I'm wondering, what's the speaker diameter like? I might want to (probably will) use foams with these, and am wondering what sort of size I'd need to put on 'em. Might even recable them if the J-cable is egregiously bad like on those JVC Victors I sent off to Stiks Audio a few weeks back. Any tips? Thanks


Light sweet sound, very comfortable fit, 16 mm drivers, thin soft cable. I like it, but mdr-e484 much better


----------



## purplesun (Mar 5, 2019)

Curious, why TY Hi-Z's cheapest models doesn't get mentioned anymore?

Am in the process of giving away my old earbuds to friend's and their kids, the ones that gets played the most are: Monks (plain & red/black cable), Vido and TY Hi-Z (L-plug & red cable). Mostly well liked, but everyone liked the TY Hi-Z. The kids were snapping up the TYs as fast as I could throw them on the table.

Listening to one now, imo, less coloration than Vido and just as punchy. But I am the worst person to consult on MX500-shelled earbuds, as I have problems wearing them.


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> Just received the RY4C earbuds today for the tidy sum of £2.33 shipped from China ordered on the 22nd February. Nice shells, cable is a little rubbery but absolutely fine. I'm surprised at the bass on these little things gives a good thump, mids are fine and highs are crystal clear giving good air but well controlled. Bargain of the year (I know it's early)



Nice impressions. Nice photo. I like the look of them. Resistance will be just about zero I think...



nick n said:


> Is there a source for them that is a little easier than Ali etc?



Easier? EASIER???....





IT'S WAY TOO EASY!!!

Click. Done


----------



## nickv

Willber said:


> Anyone who likes the Kube really should get the MS16. Similar signatures (Kube slightly bassier, MS16 a bit warmer in the mids) and soundstages - in fact the MS16 might be slightly wider. And at about 1/3 the price of the Kube they are a steal.


M


Willber said:


> I'm not suggesting they are world-beaters, but for their price they are outstanding. They are better in overall sound IMO than all my other metal buds (AG RX-1, EO320, MEMT T5, EB2, **** PT25) which cost ~5x as much. And the build is solid if not the best finished. But for $6? No problem. They are firmly in my top 3 favourites and currently my daily drivers.
> 
> I don't like the cable, though!


Enjoying the MS16 right now. They are very forward and much louder (efficient) than I was expecting. Very fun sound, particularly in the mids which are very forward. Agree about the cable, too rubbery.
Soundstage is pretty wide and they have quite an airy top end. I can see myself pulling these out ahead of many other earbuds. Exceptional value!


----------



## fairx

HungryPanda said:


> Just received the RY4C earbuds today for the tidy sum of £2.33 shipped from China ordered on the 22nd February. Nice shells, cable is a little rubbery but absolutely fine. I'm surprised at the bass on these little things gives a good thump, mids are fine and highs are crystal clear giving good air but well controlled. Bargain of the year (I know it's early)


What post did you use? I see multiple. The free shipping didn't mention any company. Hope not sunyou. I use sunyou couple of time and never get the stuff, luckily they're just 1 dollar trinket.


----------



## HungryPanda

RY Store  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4...e-MX500-style-earphone-3-5mm/32976726281.html


----------



## viatraco

mbwilson111 said:


> My white one was ordered on Feb.21st.  Not sure where it is now.  I think it shipped. The listing says 2017 New Headroom MS16.  Were there older ones than that.  I only wish there had been a no mic version.



I have got mine since 2017 - black with blue cable and with mic. Over one year of using in cold outside I think transparent coating become little stiff.
MS16 has some flaws, but I think there is one of the best audio equipment I've ever heard in terms of SQ/price ratio. Fun and open sound.


----------



## fairx (Mar 6, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> RY Store  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4...e-MX500-style-earphone-3-5mm/32976726281.html


Just check my order it is sunyou if free shipping.. Ouch. Hope this time it's different.

use extra .70cent for other shipping like China post guys. China post never lost their shipping  even if they're super late in my experience


----------



## waynes world

fairx said:


> Just check my order it is sunyou if free shipping.. Ouch. Hope this time it's different.
> 
> use extra .70cent for other shipping like China post guys. China post never lost their shipping  even if they're super late in my experience



I just went with the default $0.76 "China Post Ordinary Small Packet Plus" and will be treating them as a "What's this - I forgot I even ordered these!" surprises when they eventually get here


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> I just went with the default $0.76 "China Post Ordinary Small Packet Plus" and will be treating them as a "What's this - I forgot I even ordered these!" surprises when they eventually get here



Wow, I feel bad for you.  China Post was free for us and arrived in less than two weeks.


----------



## fairx

I belive many seller use China post as default free shipping. In ry4c case,  it's too cheap they decided to give shipping with extra choices. I guess.

I usually get China post small packet in 2 weeks and singapore post in 10 days. Sunyou.. Nope no such luck receiving their packet yet.


----------



## Dabbaranks

So I was thinking my kube v1s were lost for good since it’s been over a month since I ordered, but surprisingly they came at the same time as my Sabia v6 pearl and kube v2s, really happy camper as my ears agree with all of them. 

Here’s my burn in party that’s been going on all night, along with a pair of emx500’s that I didn’t burn in,


 

@HungryPanda if you end up recabling the kube v1s or v2s could you please share with us any problems you run into? I’ve never recabled but I’ve read that some drivers are extra fragile, thanks in advance


----------



## viatraco

Willber said:


> I'm not suggesting they are world-beaters, but for their price they are outstanding. They are better in overall sound IMO than all my other metal buds (AG RX-1, EO320, MEMT T5, EB2, **** PT25) which cost ~5x as much. And the build is solid if not the best finished. But for $6? No problem. They are firmly in my top 3 favourites and currently my daily drivers.
> 
> I don't like the cable, though!



From above I hve only EB2, but IMO there are better than MS16, especially in treble. Somethimes piercing without foams, but cymbals and high hats are clearly more natural on EB2.
But I like MS16 more than Yi...o BK2 or Monk+.


----------



## chinmie

i saw this double sided tackle box yesterday and thinking it would fit my earphones. can't get my iems in because most have large housing and over-ear hooks, but for earbuds they fit just fine. now i can put most my earbuds in one place, except the Svara L (currently using angled mmcx connector) and the bluetooth cabled willsounds


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> i saw this double sided tackle box yesterday and thinking it would fit my earphones. can't get my iems in because most have large housing and over-ear hooks, but for earbuds they fit just fine. now i can put most my earbuds in one place, except the Svara L (currently using angled mmcx connector) and the bluetooth cabled willsounds



That looks really nice.  Now you just need another case for future buds


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> That looks really nice.  Now you just need another case for future buds



noooo!! I'm on earbud diet here!


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> noooo!! I'm on earbud diet here!



There is not even one compartment empty...


----------



## seanc6441

viatraco said:


> From above I hve only EB2, but IMO there are better than MS16, especially in treble. Somethimes piercing without foams, but cymbals and high hats are clearly more natural on EB2.
> But I like MS16 more than Yi...o BK2 or Monk+.


Yeah but at least to my ears, the eb2 was very smooth in the treble and lacking energy slightly, compared to the mids which were a little more energetic.


----------



## caracal (Mar 7, 2019)

RY4S in a transparent case and with different cable for only 3$ now! Looking really great and seems to be a steal for the price 

Guess I got to order RY4C  as well cause the statement "better than vidos" intrigues.


----------



## snip3r77

caracal said:


> RY4S in a transparent case and with different cable for only 3$ now! Looking really great and seems to be a steal for the price
> 
> Guess I got to order RY4C  as well cause the statement "better than vidos" intrigues.


Yeah just don’t eat a burger for dinner later


----------



## RobinFood

snip3r77 said:


> Yeah just don’t eat a burger for dinner later



Earbud diet!


----------



## gazzington

purplesun said:


> Curious, why TY Hi-Z's cheapest models doesn't get mentioned anymore?
> 
> Am in the process of giving away my old earbuds to friend's and their kids, the ones that gets played the most are: Monks (plain & red/black cable), Vido and TY Hi-Z (L-plug & red cable). Mostly well liked, but everyone liked the TY Hi-Z. The kids were snapping up the TYs as fast as I could throw them on the table.
> 
> Listening to one now, imo, less coloration than Vido and just as punchy. But I am the worst person to consult on MX500-shelled earbuds, as I have problems wearing them.


Love my ty-hi z


----------



## gazzington

gazzington said:


> Love my ty-hi z


Even though I own some expensive gear. My current work set up is an ibasso dx120 with the cheap Ty earbuds. Very happy with it


----------



## waynes world

gazzington said:


> Even though I own some expensive gear. My current work set up is an ibasso dx120 with the cheap Ty earbuds. Very happy with it



All of the enablers in my life are making me feel a little bit overwhelmed with new buds. But your enabling powers are pretty good as well! I should have those.


----------



## oatp1b1

Have anyone tried the ATH CM2000Ti's yet? I'm looking to replace my Sennheiser MX985's and these look like they could fit the bill. Have to buy them blind though, hence the question.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

oatp1b1 said:


> Have anyone tried the ATH CM2000Ti's yet? I'm looking to replace my Sennheiser MX985's and these look like they could fit the bill. Have to buy them blind though, hence the question.


I believe that @golov17 has tried it.


----------



## seanc6441

oatp1b1 said:


> Have anyone tried the ATH CM2000Ti's yet? I'm looking to replace my Sennheiser MX985's and these look like they could fit the bill. Have to buy them blind though, hence the question.


Just type cm2000ti in search, there's a handful of posts about it.


----------



## wskl

I received the K's LBB (Little Black Bell) a few days ago, my first earbud from this brand.

Quick impressions - It is not for bassheads, there is a little sub-bass and adequate mid-bass.  The star of the show are the mids, they are very detailed, maybe a bit forward sounding.  Treble is of good quality, crisp sounding but not fatiguing.  Tonality is slightly above neutral, if neutral was a 5, then I'd give the LBB a 6 so it adds some musicality to the music but definitely not the signature for those looking for a fun sound.  Soundstage is of moderate size, not the biggest but it does a good job of projecting a good sense of space, I'd be surprised if you encounter any sound congestion.

You may have noticed that there is no stem attached to the shell, I actually find this to be a good thing because with the NiceHCK EB2 (using same bell shaped shell) the stem can sometimes rub against my ear lobe and cause a little discomfort and I need to readjust them, but no such issues with the LBB.  The cable below the Y-splitter is a bit springy with some slight stiffness but I can live with it.  I'm a bit disappointed that there was no earphone case or pouch included.

Naturally it has made me curious about K's other offerings, such is life with this hobby.


----------



## Light - Man

seanc6441 said:


> Ok just bought the* K's LBB* in black



Well, what do you think of them?

How do they compare to the VE Monk (variants)?

*Guys*, for a neutral balanced sound with good mids and a clean extended treble, what other good options do we have at this present time*?*

*Mr wskl, *are the K's LBB one of your favourites so far?


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 8, 2019)

Light - Man said:


> Well, what do you think of them?
> 
> How do they compare to the VE Monk (variants)?
> 
> ...


I posted more about them in later comments. My unit had a defective right driver, it was rattling on bass notes.

That issue aside, the mids are very clean, highs are detailed and smooth. Bass is lacking.

If these had more bass quantity and warmth in the mid bass/low mids, I'd be highly impressed. Because everything above that is wonderful for the price.

I really don't like earbuds that lack enough bass to sound big/full like open back headphones, as it reminds me that I'm listening to small drivers, that's sadly the case here.


----------



## wskl

Light - Man said:


> Well, what do you think of them?
> 
> How do they compare to the VE Monk (variants)?
> 
> ...



@Light - Man  - nice to see you on this thread.

With regards to the LBB, it is too early to say if they will become a favorite, I still need more time to evaluate but I do like how they sound.

Comparing with the regular Monks, the LBB are technically better in all areas apart from the soundstage, Monks sound more open.  I also have the Monk+ SPC which I like quite a bit, so much so that they have been my daily driver for the past 2 months (I wrote about them in post #38814).

I am not the best person to ask about treble extension, I am a middle aged guy and have already lost the ability to hear those higher frequencies.  Hopefully others can chime in with other recommendations.


----------



## Jecht Auron (Mar 8, 2019)

*deleted*


----------



## Ira Delphic

Jecht Auron said:


> I have a pair of KZ ZSR but new to all this aftermarket stuff. Need help to know what size earbuds fit them. So I dont order the wrong ones. Wont even ask what's the best as I have read some of the thread and there are many to try lol.



You understand this thread is for earbuds, not IEMs?


----------



## Jecht Auron

Ira Delphic said:


> You understand this thread is for earbuds, not IEMs?


Oops sorry my bad lol


----------



## kw8910

I got the ry4s ue a few months back after all the hype and unfortunately it was a bit disappointing for me. Really wasn’t my cup of tea; treble is peaky, vocals are shouty and all over the place/not centered, and though the bass had good amount of thump, it was very one dimensional and loose.. like having the same bass note and lacking nuance from song to song. I basically left it alone except for when the occasional positive impression makes me bring it out again only to confirm my initial thoughts. Maybe I got a bad one or I’m just spoiled with the other gear.

I didn’t give up on them however and, finally, I was able to get it outfitted with mmcx connectors, pairing it with a much better spc cable and the difference is massive..



This was the sound I was originally expecting! Clarity and resolution much improved, soundstage is excellent and more cohesive with vocals not too far nor close. Its still slightly v-shaped but not severely. I can see these being one of my daily drivers now instead of collecting dust in my bin..


----------



## waynes world

kw8910 said:


> I got the ry4s ue a few months back after all the hype and unfortunately it was a bit disappointing for me. Really wasn’t my cup of tea; treble is peaky, vocals are shouty and all over the place/not centered, and though the bass had good amount of thump, it was very one dimensional and loose.. like having the same bass note and lacking nuance from song to song. I basically left it alone except for when the occasional positive impression makes me bring it out again only to confirm my initial thoughts. Maybe I got a bad one or I’m just spoiled with the other gear.
> 
> I didn’t give up on them however and, finally, I was able to get it outfitted with mmcx connectors, pairing it with a much better spc cable and the difference is massive..
> 
> ...



I was going to suggest that you get the Yincrow RW9. But then I read that you solved your dilemma - nicely done! 

When does my recabled ry4s ue arrive?


----------



## waynes world

Still loving the Yincrow RW9's. And they are still on sale. Just sayin'!


----------



## kw8910

waynes world said:


> I was going to suggest that you get the Yincrow RW9. But then I read that you solved your dilemma - nicely done!
> 
> When does my recabled ry4s ue arrive?



 Let me know where to send and I’ll get one over to you right away... for a reasonable price


----------



## RobinFood

kw8910 said:


> I got the ry4s ue a few months back after all the hype and unfortunately it was a bit disappointing for me. Really wasn’t my cup of tea; treble is peaky, vocals are shouty and all over the place/not centered, and though the bass had good amount of thump, it was very one dimensional and loose.. like having the same bass note and lacking nuance from song to song. I basically left it alone except for when the occasional positive impression makes me bring it out again only to confirm my initial thoughts. Maybe I got a bad one or I’m just spoiled with the other gear.
> 
> I didn’t give up on them however and, finally, I was able to get it outfitted with mmcx connectors, pairing it with a much better spc cable and the difference is massive..
> 
> ...



Thank you! I thought I was going crazy not enjoying their sound, even though I thought the cable and plug looked and felt fantastic.

Is it difficult to do an mmcx connector surgery on them? I've only soldered (very badly) a few times to fix my laptop's power connector back. Do you need a helping hand?


----------



## Ira Delphic

kw8910 said:


> I got the ry4s ue a few months back after all the hype and unfortunately it was a bit disappointing for me. Really wasn’t my cup of tea; treble is peaky, vocals are shouty and all over the place/not centered, and though the bass had good amount of thump, it was very one dimensional and loose.. like having the same bass note and lacking nuance from song to song. I basically left it alone except for when the occasional positive impression makes me bring it out again only to confirm my initial thoughts. Maybe I got a bad one or I’m just spoiled with the other gear.
> 
> I didn’t give up on them however and, finally, I was able to get it outfitted with mmcx connectors, pairing it with a much better spc cable and the difference is massive..
> 
> ...



What other changes did you make? A different cable should only make a subtle difference in the sound signature.


----------



## viatraco

Did anybody compare Penon BS1 Official to Toneking TO400 ?


----------



## seanc6441

Ira Delphic said:


> What other changes did you make? A different cable should only make a subtle difference in the sound signature.


Well for one if he didn't compensate for sealing the cable port by opening the second port the sound would possibly change quiet considerably.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 9, 2019)

viatraco said:


> Did anybody compare Penon BS1 Official to Toneking TO400 ?


I've owned both. I prefer the BS1. The TO400s is slightly more neutral but lacks a pleasant bass thump.

And to my ears the To600 is the superior earbud to the to400 because it has respectable bass, equally proficient mids and treble (although I'd say vocals pop more on the 600 slightly) and it's roughly the same price if you look around).


----------



## Dabbaranks

Just received a pair of Snow Lotus 1.0 today (black cable, smoked transparent shell), I gotta say in terms of budget/build quality ratio these are a steal. Very impressed with Faaeal, looking forward to the 1.0+ commemorative editions coming in the mail. 

Kube update, I think I like the Kube v2 sound more than the v1 after burn-in, but the flat cable on the v2 knocks the buds out of my ears often. Compared to my other buds the vocals on the v1 sound a tad muddy, but the bass is very very enjoyable. I'm not experienced in giving sound impressions so take my opinion with a grain of salt. 

Also wanted to take a chance to thank you all for the great recommendations, I get easily bored and finding this thread has really livened up my selection at work. Everything I've tried from this thread has been awesome, minus the Tiandirenhe wooden buds which I still can't listen to after over 150hrs of burn-in, but I don't think anyone actually recommended those.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Mar 9, 2019)

Dabbaranks said:


> Everything I've tried from this thread has been awesome, minus the Tiandirenhe wooden buds which I still can't listen to after over 150hrs of burn-in, but I don't think anyone actually recommended those.



Actually....






I love mine but as you can see, I am not using the stock cable.   This cable is balanced... too heavy to walk around with but great when relaxing with music from the balanced output of my Onkyo DP-X1.

I also love the ones you liked.. the Faaeal (I have several models all in my list).  the Kube1 and 2... and many others Priced from $3 to about $60 ( I think... maybe less on sale).   edit:  My Blur was more... around $90 I think... I try to forget that I spent that much

Just received the Headroom MS16 today.  Sounding good so far... burning in at the moment.


----------



## DBaldock9

Dabbaranks said:


> ... Everything I've tried from this thread has been awesome, minus the Tiandirenhe wooden buds which I still can't listen to after over 150hrs of burn-in, but I don't think anyone actually recommended those.



I ordered a set on 26-NOV-16, when they were called Daik Wooden Earbuds - and while they don't have a lot of low Bass, I do like their Midrange & Treble response.
Their small size also means that they fit better than most of my other earbuds (I wear the cables over-the-ear).
Looking forward to hearing how they sound, when driven by this new Little Bear B4-X (Dual Mono, with Balanced 2.5mm TRRS Output) Tube Amplifier that I've ordered. (should be here in ~3 weeks)
.
.


----------



## mbwilson111

DBaldock9 said:


> I ordered a set on 26-NOV-16, when they were called Daik Wooden Earbuds - and while they don't have a lot of low Bass, I do like their Midrange & Treble response.
> Their small size also means that they fit better than most of my other earbuds (I wear the cables over-the-ear).
> Looking forward to hearing how they sound, when driven by this new Little Bear B4-X (Dual Mono, with Balanced 2.5mm TRRS Output) Tube Amplifier that I've ordered. (should be here in ~3 weeks)
> .
> .



That thing is so cute you are making me want it.  But, I don't need it... I have a couple of SS  portable amps and my tube amp in the living room and my nice dac/amp at my desk.  How many amps does a person need?   Also I am not sure if most of my daps actually need more power.  Some of them are quite powerful on their own...


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 9, 2019)

Dabbaranks said:


> Just received a pair of Snow Lotus 1.0 today (black cable, smoked transparent shell), I gotta say in terms of budget/build quality ratio these are a steal. Very impressed with Faaeal, looking forward to the 1.0+ commemorative editions coming in the mail.
> 
> Kube update, I think I like the Kube v2 sound more than the v1 after burn-in, but the flat cable on the v2 knocks the buds out of my ears often. Compared to my other buds the vocals on the v1 sound a tad muddy, but the bass is very very enjoyable. I'm not experienced in giving sound impressions so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
> 
> Also wanted to take a chance to thank you all for the great recommendations, I get easily bored and finding this thread has really livened up my selection at work. Everything I've tried from this thread has been awesome, minus the Tiandirenhe wooden buds which I still can't listen to after over 150hrs of burn-in, but I don't think anyone actually recommended those.


Kube V1 foamless and modded sounded really good to my ears. It definitely sounds better foamless as the vocals come alive and sound richer. But there's still more potential to be had by modding them to sound more open which improves the mids a lot.

The earbud goes from fun and bassy tuned with stock tuning and foams, to sounding like a smooth, balanced sounding open back headphone with this wide and tall soundstage and tonally accurate midrange and treble. That's the kube V1 that wow'd me.

Whereas the stock earbud was a pleasant surprise but nothing to gush over, those drivers have some real potential for modding.

Only caveat is the bass is more on the warm and lush side than the tight and precise side. But i don't really care because the earbud sounds bloody massive and immersive yet relaxing and silky smooth. It definitely lets you forget your listening to a tiny driver and I could be fooled that the sound was not being produced from a 40+mm dynamic driver headphone.

And as I said above, modded it's one of the few buds I own that actually has a sense of height in the soundstage, probably due to how complete the frequency range is, with no significant drop offs or killer peaks to distrupt the imaging. On grand-large scale sounding tracks the sound just fills the space left to right and top to bottom.


----------



## purplesun (Mar 9, 2019)

DBaldock9 said:


> .



Dammit! Went and ordered 3 more headphone amps from China! Grrrr.....!
Op-amp based, not ready for tube-based walkabout amps.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY...ional-47-Headphone-amplifier/32980361498.html

Sorry for non-earbud off-topic!


----------



## Daegalus

So I got the Yincrow X6 and the RW-9 today, and I can't really tell much of  difference. there is one, but I can't really pinpoint what it is. But its minor enough where It doesn't matter too much to the music I tested it with (Time - Pink Floyd, Letter - Yosi, Enter Sandman - Metallica, Limit to your Love, and a song from Lorde.)

The bass is amazing and clear though. mids are clean and highs are strong but not overwhelming or sibiliant. The sound much better than the Sennheisers.

I might go with the X6's just because they are cheaper.


----------



## acroyear

How do I know when I'm buying thick vs thin earbud cushions?  I need the thick type.  What brand should I look for?  Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## DBaldock9

Daegalus said:


> So I got the Yincrow X6 and the RW-9 today, and I can't really tell much of  difference. there is one, but I can't really pinpoint what it is. But its minor enough where It doesn't matter too much to the music I tested it with (Time - Pink Floyd, Letter - Yosi, Enter Sandman - Metallica, Limit to your Love, and a song from Lorde.)
> 
> The bass is amazing and clear though. mids are clean and highs are strong but not overwhelming or sibiliant. The sound much better than the Sennheisers.
> 
> I might go with the X6's just because they are cheaper.



Did you try this version of "Enter Sandman"?  
.


----------



## kw8910 (Mar 10, 2019)

RobinFood said:


> Thank you! I thought I was going crazy not enjoying their sound, even though I thought the cable and plug looked and felt fantastic.
> 
> Is it difficult to do an mmcx connector surgery on them? I've only soldered (very badly) a few times to fix my laptop's power connector back. Do you need a helping hand?



I’ve had the same ry4s ue cable on other earbuds that I’ve never been a fan of so to me that’s the main issue. Adding mmcx is not too bad, just need the connectors, a decent soldering tip and some practice. You can get away with using a strong clip instead of helping hands, so it’s not as necessary. Pm me if you want more info.



Ira Delphic said:


> What other changes did you make? A different cable should only make a subtle difference in the sound signature.



Just the port hole for now


----------



## assassin10000 (Mar 10, 2019)

acroyear said:


> How do I know when I'm buying thick vs thin earbud cushions?  I need the thick type.  What brand should I look for?  Any help would be appreciated.



https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32671911259.html

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32607003829.html

Just got these a couple weeks ago. They are the thicker ones, as far as I can tell it's the same foams. 

They are denser than the cheaper aliexpress foams I got previously. Not sure how they compare to the VE or Heigi foams.


----------



## mbwilson111

acroyear said:


> How do I know when I'm buying thick vs thin earbud cushions?  I need the thick type.  What brand should I look for?  Any help would be appreciated.





assassin10000 said:


> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32671911259.html
> 
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32607003829.html
> 
> ...



I have those Trig Rain ones in a few colors.  Love the quality.


----------



## cocolinho

What is the most engaging earbuds you know ?
Like a super emx500 ?
I currently have a Willsound MK1 SE i really like but sometimes I wish something more energetic. 
By the way it doesn't mean bright. 
My current IEM is Andromeda. Clear engaging but never bright 
Thanks


----------



## snip3r77

assassin10000 said:


> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32671911259.html
> 
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32607003829.html
> 
> ...


Which is thinner or thicker than standard ones


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> That thing is so cute you are making me want it.  But, I don't need it... I have a couple of SS  portable amps and my tube amp in the living room and my nice dac/amp at my desk.  *How many amps does a person need? *  Also I am not sure if most of my daps actually need more power.  Some of them are quite powerful on their own...



Always one more than you have...


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 10, 2019)

cocolinho said:


> What is the most engaging earbuds you know ?
> Like a super emx500 ?
> I currently have a Willsound MK1 SE i really like but sometimes I wish something more energetic.
> By the way it doesn't mean bright.
> ...


Kube V1 modded, K's Ling, Rose Mojito modded.

The Blox Yin foamless sort of sounds like a super emx500, but it's smoother and more relaxed slightly so I won't class it as an energetic sound.


----------



## assassin10000

snip3r77 said:


> Which is thinner or thicker than standard ones



Both of those link to the 'thicker' foams. They are a slightly more dense, softer feeling foam vs the thinner more porous (and somewhat itchy) foams.

These are the thinner ones.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/30P...acement-For-Earphone-MP3-MP4/32909795959.html


Here's closeup pics of the two.

'thicker'






'thinner'


----------



## mbwilson111

assassin10000 said:


> Both of those link to the 'thicker' foams. They are a slightly more dense, softer feeling foam vs the thinner more porous (and somewhat itchy) foams.



That is one reason I like the Trig Rain ones... they don't itch.  The ones that come with Faaeals and some others are also nice.


----------



## cocolinho

seanc6441 said:


> Kube V1 modded, *K's Ling*, Rose Mojito modded.
> 
> The Blox Yin foamless sort of sounds like a super emx500, but it's smoother and more relaxed slightly so I won't class it as an energetic sound.



thanks. Which Ling are you refering to? the black? the brass? the black is out of my budget for earbuds anyway


----------



## seanc6441

cocolinho said:


> thanks. Which Ling are you refering to? the black? the brass? the black is out of my budget for earbuds anyway


Black Ling.

But I'm still modding it to tame a big peak in the vocal range because it gets fatiguing after awhile. If it didnt have that peak it would be really nice with thin foams. Smooth but energetic treble, forward detailed vocals (bit too agressive), full deep bass.

With the mod to open up the shell more, bass and low mids get slightly warmer, vocals balance out slightly but retain it's sweet vocal range, slightly softer treble.

With the shell open and using thin foams or foamless the sound is still very sweet and energetic but has better balance overall and no crazy peak in the mids.


----------



## waynes world

Dabbaranks said:


> Just received a pair of Snow Lotus 1.0 today (black cable, smoked transparent shell), I gotta say in terms of budget/build quality ratio these are a steal. Very impressed with Faaeal, looking forward to the 1.0+ commemorative editions coming in the mail.
> 
> Kube update, I think I like the Kube v2 sound more than the v1 after burn-in, but the flat cable on the v2 knocks the buds out of my ears often. Compared to my other buds the vocals on the v1 sound a tad muddy, but the bass is very very enjoyable. I'm not experienced in giving sound impressions so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
> 
> Also wanted to take a chance to thank you all for the great recommendations, I get easily bored and finding this thread has really livened up my selection at work. Everything I've tried from this thread has been awesome, minus the Tiandirenhe wooden buds which I still can't listen to after over 150hrs of burn-in, but I don't think anyone actually recommended those.



Glad you're enjoying the kubes! Fwiw, I have the same problem with the kube2 cable. But it sounds great (and unique).



seanc6441 said:


> Kube V1 foamless and modded sounded really good to my ears. It definitely sounds better foamless as the vocals come alive and sound richer. But there's still more potential to be had by modding them to sound more open which improves the mids a lot.
> 
> The earbud goes from fun and bassy tuned with stock tuning and foams, to sounding like a smooth, balanced sounding open back headphone with this wide and tall soundstage and tonally accurate midrange and treble. That's the kube V1 that wow'd me.
> 
> ...



I think I'll have to look for that kube1 mod of your again!



Daegalus said:


> So I got the Yincrow X6 and the RW-9 today, and I can't really tell much of  difference. there is one, but I can't really pinpoint what it is. But its minor enough where It doesn't matter too much to the music I tested it with (Time - Pink Floyd, Letter - Yosi, Enter Sandman - Metallica, Limit to your Love, and a song from Lorde.)
> 
> The bass is amazing and clear though. mids are clean and highs are strong but not overwhelming or sibiliant. The sound much better than the Sennheisers.
> 
> I might go with the X6's just because they are cheaper.



Awesome.



DBaldock9 said:


> Did you try this version of "Enter Sandman"?




Also awesome lol!


----------



## Mimouille

I anyone is interested, I am letting my brand new Liebesleid go, in 4.4 balanced. They sound awesome, don't fit my ears so well (earbuds don't fit me in general I realized). See my signature.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 10, 2019)

waynes world said:


> I think I'll have to look for that kube1 mod of your again



I haven't really finalised it, got sidetracked with other stuff and my recent ear trouble. I posted some initial thoughts but that was just me being impressed with them without foams, and after drilling a few holes in the shell 

I'd much rather complete the mod and then showcase it before everyone goes messing up their kubes (not that most will bother to mod it other than me lol)

When I do some more work on it and convert to mmcx I'll post a full mod about it. Because it's totally the right kind of earbud to mod. Cheap, great sound and you can make it much more premium with mmcx and a new fancy cable


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> When I do some more work on it and convert to mmcx I'll post a full mod about it. Because it's totally the right kind of earbud to mod. Cheap, great sound and you can make it much more premium with mmcx and a new fancy cable



Love to see your mmcx results!


----------



## activatorfly

waynes world said:


> Love to see your mmcx results!


Ditto!


----------



## jogawag (Mar 11, 2019)

waynes world said:


> Love to see your mmcx results!





activatorfly said:


> Ditto!



My MX985 cable coating has half come off, so MX985 is now deposited with experts to support MMCX.
I would like to submit the photo here if it is completed cleanly.


----------



## gazzington

seanc6441 said:


> Kube V1 modded, K's Ling, Rose Mojito modded.
> 
> The Blox Yin foamless sort of sounds like a super emx500, but it's smoother and more relaxed slightly so I won't class it as an energetic sound.


Just ordered some kube 1 and 2. What mods do you recommend for 1?


----------



## cocolinho

gazzington said:


> Just ordered some kube 1 and 2. What mods do you recommend for 1?


where did you get the Kube1?


----------



## activatorfly

cocolinho said:


> where did you get the Kube1?


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Earphone...var=522189616760&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## SiggyFraud

I want to recable some Vidos, since I like their sound, but can't stand the stock cable. How do I know, which cable goes to which bud? Are they marked somehow, so that I don't mix left with right? Or maybe it doesn't matter? Kind of a newbie question, I know, but I've never done this before.


----------



## HungryPanda

Depends on the replacement wire, most have the core marked to differentiate the common from + or -  Some I have had have the red as left and blue as right so I always use a multimeter to test before connecting


----------



## SiggyFraud

HungryPanda said:


> Depends on the replacement wire, most have the core marked to differentiate the common from + or -  Some I have had have the red as left and blue as right so I always use a multimeter to test before connecting


You're right. In my case it's red and green (at least it looks like that in the picture). Didn't realize before. Thanks!


----------



## lyrean

Daegalus said:


> So I got the Yincrow X6 and the RW-9 today, and I can't really tell much of  difference. there is one, but I can't really pinpoint what it is. But its minor enough where It doesn't matter too much to the music I tested it with (Time - Pink Floyd, Letter - Yosi, Enter Sandman - Metallica, Limit to your Love, and a song from Lorde.)
> 
> The bass is amazing and clear though. mids are clean and highs are strong but not overwhelming or sibiliant. The sound much better than the Sennheisers.
> 
> I might go with the X6's just because they are cheaper.



What source did you use when you compared them both?

X6 should be more V or U -shaped than RW-9 which is claimed to be more balanced. I have X6 and have been thinking of getting RW-9.


----------



## assassin10000

I wonder if the ry4c would be a good candidate for an mmcx mod. If the stem diameter is large enough, maybe shorten the stem, and use roundround connectors to make something similar to the pt25 without the airpodish cover.

Anyone have it mind measuring the stem diameter?


----------



## caracal

Is there something with vido-like signature around 10$?
Maybe emx500/emx500s or snow lotus 1 plus?

Looking for an improvement to vidos, i.e. good bass and smooth highs with no hint of sibilance.


----------



## jogawag (Mar 13, 2019)

Yincrow X6 sounds like Vido.

I bought Yincrow X6 from Amazon, but Yincrow X6 sounded same as my Vido...
So I returned Yincrow X6 with reason that I bought wrong earbuds.
A friend called me as a super claimer, but I didn't care.


----------



## Daegalus

lyrean said:


> What source did you use when you compared them both?
> 
> X6 should be more V or U -shaped than RW-9 which is claimed to be more balanced. I have X6 and have been thinking of getting RW-9.


I was using a OnePlus 6T with the USB dongle to test. I do have a Fiio BTR3 i can test with over wireless and LDAC. maybe some amping will show the differences better. I will do another round of testing with the dac. I can also plug it in over USB and use it as a USB dac, so I can bypass Bluetooth issues if needed.

I mean i could tell there was some difference, i just couldnt put my finger on it, maybe with the BTR3 i can pull out some of those details better.


----------



## ClieOS

QC Audio 清川电声 QC500+
Audio-Technica ATH-C200iS
Ambie Sound Earcuffs
Smabat ST-10


----------



## kurtextrem

Ouh, the Ambie Sound Earcuffs seem interesting. Any impressions?
Also what about the Smabat ST-10?


----------



## RobinFood

ClieOS said:


> QC Audio 清川电声 QC500+
> Audio-Technica ATH-C200iS
> Ambie Sound Earcuffs
> Smabat ST-10



Could you get a good fit on the Ambie? I tried to try it in the store but it was too hard to slip on right.


----------



## ClieOS

kurtextrem said:


> Ouh, the Ambie Sound Earcuffs seem interesting. Any impressions?
> Also what about the Smabat ST-10?





RobinFood said:


> Could you get a good fit on the Ambie? I tried to try it in the store but it was too hard to slip on right.



Ambie is hard to get a good fit (if you can call that a 'fit' at all), painful to wear for any extended period of time (as it clamps down on your outer ears) and sounds like a very cheap $1 thrill shop no-brand earbud. My advice? Avoid at all cost.

Smabat ST-10 on the other hand is excellent. I reckon it has probably somewhere between flagship and 2nd tier level of SQ. Very neutral sounding overall - while not exactly the same frequency response, I think the best I can describe ST-10 is that it is almost like a pair of Etymotic ER-4S in earbud's shell. Imaging and layering are some of the best I have heard.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

ClieOS said:


> Ambie is hard to get a good fit (if you can call that a 'fit' at all), painful to wear for any extended period of time (as it clamps down on your outer ears) and sounds like a very cheap $1 thrill shop no-brand earbud. My advice? Avoid at all cost.
> 
> Smabat ST-10 on the other hand is excellent. I reckon it has probably somewhere between flagship and 2nd tier level of SQ. Very neutral sounding overall - while not exactly the same frequency response, I think the best I can describe ST-10 is that it is almost like a pair of Etymotic ER-4S in earbud's shell. Imaging and layering are some of the best I have heard.


Is it a new version of Svara-L? I bought the Svara-L with the following description: 
2017 100% Newest Svara L Flat Head Earphone Double Dynamic Earbud HIFI Monitor Earbud Earphone With MMCX Interface.
When I click in the product, inside the order, I'm redirected to ST-10 product page. I can see my feedback of my purchase of Svara-L in the ST-10 list of feedbacks...
The real question, is it different? Is it an upgrade?


----------



## Ira Delphic (Mar 13, 2019)

jogawag said:


> Yincrow X6 sounds like Vido.
> 
> I bought Yincrow X6 from Amazon, but Yincrow X6 sounded same as my Vido...
> So I returned Yincrow X6 with reason that I bought wrong earbuds.
> A friend called me as a super claimer, but I didn't care.



Thanks for providing substansive information in your post. I have Vidos and bought and kept the X6 with no regrets. I don't like that J cable.
BTW, I have (now TWO - blue and red) Yincrow RW-9's and will do an AB test vs. X6 with a splitter. I *think* there's a huge difference.


----------



## ClieOS

Marcos Fontana said:


> Is it a new version of Svara-L? I bought the Svara-L with the following description:
> 2017 100% Newest Svara L Flat Head Earphone Double Dynamic Earbud HIFI Monitor Earbud Earphone With MMCX Interface.
> When I click in the product, inside the order, I'm redirected to ST-10 product page. I can see my feedback of my purchase of Svara-L in the ST-10 list of feedbacks...
> The real question, is it different? Is it an upgrade?



ST-10 is from the same maker of Svara series, but it is not a reversion of Svara-L. As far as I can tell (as I own a older version of Svara-L), the tuning is completely different. It is more of a revolution than an evolution. Hence why it is not called a Svara anymore but instead the maker started a new company and a new name. The new ST-10, at least for me, is much better than the Svara-L.


----------



## waynes world

ClieOS said:


> ST-10 is from the same maker of Svara series, but it is not a reversion of Svara-L. As far as I can tell (as I own a older version of Svara-L), the tuning is completely different. It is more of a revolution than an evolution. Hence why it is not called a Svara anymore but instead the maker started a new company and a new name. The new ST-10, at least for me, is much better than the Svara-L.



Was your older version the 32ohm version? I ask because apparently the 32ohm version is tuned quite a bit differently than the previous non-32ohm version.


----------



## waynes world

Marcos Fontana said:


> Is it a new version of Svara-L? I bought the Svara-L with the following description:
> 2017 100% Newest Svara L Flat Head Earphone Double Dynamic Earbud HIFI Monitor Earbud Earphone With MMCX Interface.
> When I click in the product, inside the order, I'm redirected to ST-10 product page. I can see my feedback of my purchase of Svara-L in the ST-10 list of feedbacks...
> The real question, is it different? Is it an upgrade?



When I go to my aliexpress orders page, and click on my Svara L order, it also takes me to the smabat SB10 page. Weird.


----------



## mbwilson111

ClieOS said:


> ST-10 is from the same maker of Svara series, but it is not a reversion of Svara-L. As far as I can tell (as I own a older version of Svara-L), the tuning is completely different. It is more of a revolution than an evolution. Hence why it is not called a Svara anymore but instead the maker started a new company and a new name. The new ST-10, at least for me, is much better than the Svara-L.



You are making me want this ST-10.  I wonder if it will sell for less during a sale.  Have the March sales started yet?

Meanwhile... loving my less expensive buds and the ones that my husband makes for me like this one :

HungryPanda Siren... sounds amazing.  He can describe it better but is busy at work.

It has black foams on it now but I wanted a photo that showed the front part.


----------



## ClieOS

waynes world said:


> Was your older version the 32ohm version? I ask because apparently the 32ohm version is tuned quite a bit differently than the previous non-32ohm version.



Actually I never  measured my Svara-L. But it is the very first version without a doubt. I also have a prototype Svara-L as well as the later Svara Pro.


----------



## waynes world (Mar 13, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> Actually I never  measured my Svara-L. But it is the very first version without a doubt. I also have a prototype Svara-L as well as the later Svara Pro.



Thanks. In that case, until someone listens to the Svara L 32ohm and the Smabat ST10 side by side and tells me otherwise, I am going to choose to believe that the Svara L sounds _much_ better


----------



## DBaldock9

ClieOS said:


> ST-10 is from the same maker of Svara series, but it is not a reversion of Svara-L. As far as I can tell (as I own a older version of Svara-L), the tuning is completely different. It is more of a revolution than an evolution. Hence why it is not called a Svara anymore but instead the maker started a new company and a new name. The new ST-10, at least for me, is much better than the Svara-L.





waynes world said:


> Was your older version the 32ohm version? I ask because apparently the 32ohm version is tuned quite a bit differently than the previous non-32ohm version.





ClieOS said:


> Actually I never  measured my Svara-L. But it is the very first version without a doubt. I also have a prototype Svara-L as well as the later Svara Pro.



I've got both Svara-L Earbuds - 115Ω [$54.00], and 32Ω [$49.68].
The 115Ω version is rather dark sounding, with a recessed Midrange, while the 32Ω model is more balanced, without the broad hole where the Midrange should be.

I'm listening to my Svara-L 32Ω at work today, connected to my DP-X1 DAP -> iBasso PB2 Amp (w/Burson V6 Classic op-amps). 

This new ST-10 does sound interesting, if it's that much better than all of your Svara-L models.
It's just what I don't need - another set of earbuds...


----------



## mbwilson111

DBaldock9 said:


> This new ST-10 does sound interesting, if it's that much better than all of your Svara-L models.
> It's just what I don't need - another set of earbuds...



What does NEED have to do with it?

What about DESIRE?


----------



## Marcos Fontana

mbwilson111 said:


> What does NEED have to do with it?
> 
> What about DESIRE?


Lol, I wanted to have less DESIRE...


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> What does NEED have to do with it?
> 
> What about DESIRE?



Yes, desire. My desire is for Dbaldock9 to snag the ST10's so that he can compare them with the Svara's and tell me that I don't need the ST10's. That's not too much to ask, is it?


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Yes, desire. My desire is for Dbaldock9 to snag the ST10's so that he can compare them with the Svara's and tell me that I don't need the ST10's. That's not too much to ask, is it?



I want someone to tell me that I need it... lol.  That there is a hole in my list....


----------



## Dabbaranks

Hi guys I’m planning to recable for the first time, wondering if anyone has reccomendations of diy Cables with 3.5mm plugs that I should try. 

This is my first time but I have maybe 3 pairs that I want to recable, will start from the least expensive one lol. Just received my 2 dollar vidos today so they might be first on the chopping block, I am super impressed that they sound this good for next to nothing.


----------



## groucho69

waynes world said:


> Yes, desire. My desire is for Dbaldock9 to snag the ST10's so that he can compare them with the Svara's and tell me that I don't need the ST10's. That's not too much to ask, is it?



+1!!!!


----------



## jogawag

mbwilson111 said:


> I want someone to tell me that I need it... lol.  That there is a hole in my list....



@mbwilson111, there is a serious hole in your list to fill!


----------



## mbwilson111

jogawag said:


> @mbwilson111, there is a serious hole in your list to fill!



Tell me what I should fill it with.


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> I want someone to tell me that I need it... lol.  That there is a hole in my list....



Common, it's what all the cool kids are doing...


----------



## Narayan23

mbwilson111 said:


> What does NEED have to do with it?
> 
> What about DESIRE?




“The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it. Resist it, and your soul grows sick with longing for the ST 10 it has forbidden to itself, with desire for what its monstrous laws have made monstrous and unlawful.”

“Nay, without thought or conscious desire, might not things external to ourselves vibrate in unison with our moods and passions, ST 10 calling to mbwilson111 in secret love or strange affinity?”

Oscar Wilde, The Picture Of Dorian Grey

I´ve quoted the temptation paragraph before but not the desire one..."The Hunger" has to be quenched, and by the way, there´s a hole in your collection bigger than the one left in my heart by the latest defeats of Real Madrid by FC Barcelona


----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> Yes, desire. My desire is for Dbaldock9 to snag the ST10's so that he can compare them with the Svara's and tell me that I don't need the ST10's. That's not too much to ask, is it?



Patience, Grasshopper - I've been busy buying op-amps for my Headphone amps.
. 
I need to do my Taxes, and see how much of a refund I may be getting this year.


----------



## mbwilson111

DBaldock9 said:


> Patience, Grasshopper - I've been busy buying op-amps for my Headphone amps.
> .
> I need to do my Taxes, and see how much of a refund I may be getting this year.



Does an op-amp give you as much pleasure as an earbud does?


----------



## jogawag (Mar 13, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Tell me what I should fill it with.


Of course you should fill the list with ST-10!


----------



## HungryPanda

What about another HungryPanda earbud ?


----------



## HungryPanda

What about another HungryPanda earbud?


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> What about another HungryPanda earbud?



well I do have a couple of those on order...


----------



## jogawag

HungryPanda said:


> What about another HungryPanda earbud ?


What a greed!
Do you need two same Earbuds in one house?


----------



## HungryPanda

Does anyone need two cats?


----------



## jogawag (Mar 13, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> Does anyone need two cats?


That two cats should not be same!


----------



## mbwilson111

Two HungryPanda buds will not be the same either.


----------



## jogawag

mbwilson111 said:


> Two HungryPanda buds will not be the same either.


Oh matter what! Please waste your money freely!


----------



## mbwilson111

jogawag said:


> Oh matter what! Please waste your money freely!



What money?  I don't know what we are talking about anymore.


----------



## Willber

OK, I'll try to keep a long story short. It started with this post:


jogawag said:


> I strongly recommend to you "diy SR2 16ohms TPE wire" as smaller shells earbuds.
> I think that this performance is comparable to SWD2+.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801646835.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801265552.html
> ...


I wasn't looking for anything new having just bought a few others, but the reference to the SWD2+ intrigued me. After doing some searching and contacting the seller to find the best model for a large soundstage, I ordered the 16ohm one with red TPE cable.

Anyway, it arrived as I was sharing my listening time between my recent arrivals (SL 1.0/1.0+, Kube v1, MS16) and gave it a quick try. Typical PK shell, I thought. Nice sound but small soundstage. Nothing special. Except... the detail was very good. Small space but no congestion due to great clarity.

Then I remembered @jogawag's advice about burn-in (which I had also found repeated elsewhere in my searches). So I plugged a splitter into my amp and let the SR2 play quietly to itself while I got on with enjoying my other newcomers which all sounded impressive to me.

Anyway, after a couple of days (about 15 hours) I had another listen to the SR2. Hmm, definitely an improvement. The sound had opened up a bit in all dimensions and also some more warmth was present in the mids. Nice and natural, but more to come, I hoped.

So, back to the splitter for a week or so, about 50 hours use in total.

WOW! What a difference. The soundstage had expanded greatly, almost up to SL, Kube, MS16 levels. But what was most noticeable was the clarity. Superb separation, imaging, layering - it was on another level.

Oops, I have to go. Soundstage has now opened up even further. I'll hopefully add more tomorrow. BUY THEM!


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> What about another HungryPanda earbud ?



Sounds good to me! 



Willber said:


> OK, I'll try to keep a long story short. It started with this post:
> 
> I wasn't looking for anything new having just bought a few others, but the reference to the SWD2+ intrigued me. After doing some searching and contacting the seller to find the best model for a large soundstage, I ordered the 16ohm one with red TPE cable.
> 
> ...



First the jogawag, and now the Willber? Hmm, might have to be done!


----------



## Dabbaranks

waynes world said:


> Sounds good to me!
> 
> 
> 
> First the jogawag, and now the Willber? Hmm, might have to be done!



Not gonna lie I never believed in burning in any of my audio possessions after trying with iems and daps, but ever since I found you guys I’ve been pleasantly surprised how much difference 100+ hrs of burn in do to earbuds.

Maybe earbud drivers react particularly well with burn in time?

With buds I like out the box I just listen to though, since with time it should only get better


----------



## assassin10000 (Mar 14, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> Smabat ST-10 on the other hand is excellent. I reckon it has probably somewhere between flagship and 2nd tier level of SQ. Very neutral sounding overall - while not exactly the same frequency response, I think the best I can describe ST-10 is that it is almost like a pair of Etymotic ER-4S in earbud's shell. Imaging and layering are some of the best I have heard.



I had been eyeing the 32ohm Svara-L's which the seller replaced with these. If they're that good I may have to get them. Does a typical cell phone or bluetooth adapter drive these easily? I see they're 45ohm, but sensitivity seems good.



Willber said:


> So, back to the splitter for a week or so, about 50 hours use in total.
> 
> WOW! What a difference. The soundstage had expanded greatly, almost up to SL, Kube, MS16 levels. But what was most noticeable was the clarity. Superb separation, imaging, layering - it was on another level.
> 
> Oops, I have to go. Soundstage has now opened up even further. I'll hopefully add more tomorrow. BUY THEM!



Nice!

I also found they sell them in a slightly different shell too, single port & no markings for left/right (even cheaper as well). I just ordered them in 16ohm after talking to the seller about them.
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32922747759.html


----------



## ClieOS

assassin10000 said:


> I had been eyeing the 32ohm Svara-L's which the seller replaced with these. If they're that good I may have to get them. Does a typical cell phone or bluetooth adapter drive these easily? I see they're 45ohm, but sensitivity seems good.



It isn't particularly hard to drive, as far as I can tell.


----------



## GREQ (Mar 14, 2019)

One of these just landed on my desk at work.






(Early impressions only. Measurements to follow later)
Original foams (pictured on buds) came off quite quickly after initial listening, and were replaced with black donuts. (mid-bass was too present).

Compared with my the Sabia (black microphone cable) the detail and driver ability is about on the same level.
Tuning is what I would consider the polar opposite.

To my ears, Sabia puts emphasis on sub-bass, high mids/vocals and treble. (similar kind of wonderful insanity as JVC HA-DX1000).
The ANN 200's just sound very warm and apparently smooth over the whole frequency range.
Emphasis seems to be on central mids and a little on high bass, which doesn't seem to come across as boomy or bloomy. (like a warmer/thicker HD650 or MDR-V900 maybe).
Treble is slightly recessed/veiled, but present.
After a quick comparison, it clearly does not have a v-shaped sound like the Vido.
Definitely a softer, more polite tuning, and what I expect to be completely fatigue-free.
I don't want to comment on soundstage as I'm not so sensitive to the differences, but the kind of tonality presentation is sort of what I would expect from large floor-standing speakers.
However, I will say that timbre is one of the best I've heard from a bud so far. Quite an engaging and believable midrange for sure.
To give an abstract digital-image processing analogy - If Sabia is like adding a heavy sharpening to increase detail, ANN200 is more like zooming in a little and seeing the natural details.

I think these will be great for all-day listening at the office.

At a first feel, I thought the shells had the cheap-horrible rubberized coating that rots away after 2-3 years of contact with human sweat etc, but it actually feels lot more rugged and is quite textured and rough to touch, but not noticeably rougher than the foams on them, so nothing to worry about I think. Definitely adds a slightly more premium look and feel.
Cable is more pliable than I expected, actually slightly more flexible than Sabia black-mic cable.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that mine arrived with distortion in the right driver - nothing the old sucking trick couldn't completely fix in a few moments (took longer to get the foams back on afterwards).


----------



## DBaldock9

ClieOS said:


> ST-10 is from the same maker of Svara series, but it is not a reversion of Svara-L. As far as I can tell (as I own a older version of Svara-L), the tuning is completely different. It is more of a revolution than an evolution. Hence why it is not called a Svara anymore but instead the maker started a new company and a new name. The new ST-10, at least for me, is much better than the Svara-L.



The ST-10 has vanished from AliExpress - the AVCCK Earphones Store listing is now showing - "*Sorry, this item is no longer available!*"
No other stores have the ST-10 listed.
And, Smabat doesn't show up in an AliExpress search.


----------



## ClieOS

DBaldock9 said:


> The ST-10 has vanished from AliExpress - the AVCCK Earphones Store listing is now showing - "*Sorry, this item is no longer available!*"
> No other stores have the ST-10 listed.
> And, Smabat doesn't show up in an AliExpress search.



It is still on Taobao. I guess you have to wait for another Ali reseller to pick it up.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

DBaldock9 said:


> The ST-10 has vanished from AliExpress - the AVCCK Earphones Store listing is now showing - "*Sorry, this item is no longer available!*"
> No other stores have the ST-10 listed.
> And, Smabat doesn't show up in an AliExpress search.


Probably out of stock:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...pm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.275.44a63c00nEeygn


----------



## mbwilson111

DBaldock9 said:


> The ST-10 has vanished from AliExpress - the AVCCK Earphones Store listing is now showing - "*Sorry, this item is no longer available!*"
> No other stores have the ST-10 listed.
> And, Smabat doesn't show up in an AliExpress search.



I still had the link up showing stock  but when I refreshed the page it changed to no longer available.  Before I refreshed the page I noticed that in the spot where they sometimes say how many are available it said this "piece (_50 pieces_ _at most per customer_)"

Maybe someone bought them all to sell.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Mar 14, 2019)

GREQ said:


> One of these just landed on my desk at work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I had a delivery yesterday... much faster than expected.  I was pleasantly surprised to see that the ANN N-200 included a case.   I have not had a chance to listen to it yet because this is what arrived:

One of the orange Kubes and one of the ANNs are for HungryPanda when he gets home tonight.






Listening with one of the orange Kube1 now.


----------



## KevDzn

Wow....Its Christmas all over again


----------



## Dobrescu George

I made a video about BGVP DX3S Earbuds. I mention in the video that my comfort with them is pretty terrible, and said that this may be true with all earbuds, but on a second thought, that ain't true. I had good comfort with Dragon2+ Earbuds, and also with Linsoul BLD, seems that just DX3S was this uncomfortable for my ears. Anyways, I invite you to watch my video if you want to get more user info about DX3S


----------



## SiggyFraud

Can someone tell me if there's a big difference between the three models: Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0, 1.0+ and 2.0 and if any of these can be considered superior? I already have Iris 2.0, and Vidos, both of which I really like, but I'm looking for an upgrade around USD 10,00.


----------



## capnjack

Just paired these up and wow, blown away!


----------



## Themilkman46290

capnjack said:


> Just paired these up and wow, blown away!


What are they?


----------



## Matarro

I think those are from Ryo Chandra Lesmana, he makes some really cool looking stuff. Check him out on facebook! I have no idea how they sound but I'm tempted to buy something from him just for the looks, I know exactly how I'd want them painted.


----------



## chinmie

HungryPanda said:


> Does anyone need two cats?



no way, but there's seven dogs at my home though


----------



## capnjack

Themilkman46290 said:


> What are they?


Yes, as Mattaro said, I got these from Ryo you can find him on Facebook if I remember he goes by the name Uairekko cust'm buds.


----------



## Themilkman46290

capnjack said:


> Yes, as Mattaro said, I got these from Ryo you can find him on Facebook if I remember he goes by the name Uairekko cust'm buds.


Well they look awesome, dark side of the moon is one of my favorites, really cool. I will look him up


----------



## viatraco

DBaldock9 said:


> I ordered a set on 26-NOV-16, when they were called Daik Wooden Earbuds - and while they don't have a lot of low Bass, I do like their Midrange & Treble response.
> Their small size also means that they fit better than most of my other earbuds (I wear the cables over-the-ear).
> Looking forward to hearing how they sound, when driven by this new Little Bear B4-X (Dual Mono, with Balanced 2.5mm TRRS Output) Tube Amplifier that I've ordered. (should be here in ~3 weeks)



I'm waiting for your dual mono impressions and comparisions.


----------



## DBaldock9

viatraco said:


> I'm waiting for your dual mono impressions and comparisions.



The shipping info from AliExpress says I should expect the LB B4-X sometime between 04-Apr & 22-Apr.


----------



## danimeisteR (Mar 15, 2019)

Hi guys, I am kind of dumb I guess. I have been looking for some nice "intra-concha" (image) for quite some time for my mobile, since I cannot stand the modern earbuds (last option I tried was the Massdrop x Nuforce EDC and like the others they dont fit into my tiny tiny ears and they end up falling out).

I have been browsing the last 10 pages of this thread and I ended up finding the Yincrow RW-777. What do you think about them? What other options do I have between $30-$70 (only intra-concha, no earbuds, please).


----------



## waynes world (Mar 15, 2019)

danimeisteR said:


> Hi guys, I am kind of dumb I guess. I have been looking for some nice "intra-concha" (image)* (ie earbuds) *for quite some time, since I cannot stand the modern earbuds* iems (in ear monitors) *(last option I tried was the Massdrop x Nuforce EDC and like the others they dont fit into my tiny tiny ears and they end up falling out).



Fixed that for you!



> I have been browsing the last 10 pages of this thread and I ended up finding the Yincrow RW-777. What do you think about them? What other options do I have between $30-$70 (only intra-concha, no earbuds, please).



You are in the right place. I also have issues with iems, and earbuds are a godsend.

What kind of sound signature interests you?


----------



## danimeisteR (Mar 15, 2019)

waynes world said:


> Fixed that for you!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am new to this and I don't have the knowledge to explain it. If this can be of any guidance, I mostly listen to electronic music, hip-hop and rock. I got 2 entry-level headphones about 6 months ago, the Hifiman HE4xx and the DT770 Pro 250 Ohms and I prefer the Hifiman. I think the hifiman are just more fun for the kind of music I listen to. I really really like the DT770 Pro too, they are really comfortable and the sound is really detailed. Another thing: now that I think about it, I don't like headphones that add too much bass, I really enjoy listening to cristal clear details in the music. I hope that helps. Thanks for the help!


----------



## Ira Delphic

danimeisteR said:


> Hi guys, I am kind of dumb I guess. I have been looking for some nice "intra-concha" (image) for quite some time, since I cannot stand the modern earbuds (last option I tried was the Massdrop x Nuforce EDC and like the others they dont fit into my tiny tiny ears and they end up falling out).
> 
> I have been browsing the last 10 pages of this thread and I ended up finding the Yincrow RW-777. What do you think about them? What other options do I have between $30-$70 (only intra-concha, no earbuds, please).



Below you price range, the Qian 39 is tiny, in terms of shell diameter, and for me the best fit of any earbud. The sound is pretty good too!

Check out the Yincrow RW-9. One of my favorite earbuds!


----------



## danimeisteR (Mar 15, 2019)

Ira Delphic said:


> Below you price range, the Qian 39 is tiny, in terms of shell diameter, and for me the best fit of any earbud. The sound is pretty good too!
> 
> Check out the Yincrow RW-9. One of my favorite earbuds!


Thanks for the advice, but allow me to be ignorant here. These are pretty cheap options (not in quality, I mean in price). Since I'm willing to spend up until $70, wouldn't I find much better options or are there no significant differences?


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 15, 2019)

danimeisteR said:


> I am new to this and I don't have the knowledge to explain it. If this can be of any guidance, I mostly listen to electronic music, hip-hop and rock. I got 2 entry-level headphones about 6 months ago, the Hifiman HE4xx and the DT770 Pro 250 Ohms and I prefer the Hifiman. I think the hifiman are just more fun for the kind of music I listen to. I really really like the DT770 Pro too, they are really comfortable and the sound is really detailed. Another thing: now that I think about it, I don't like headphones that add too much bass, I really enjoy listening to cristal clear details in the music. I hope that helps. Thanks for the help!


You needn't worry about too much bass, earbuds don't really exceed neutral sub bass ever and only mid bass will be elevated on some units. Generally most earbuds are less bassy than their IEM or full size counter parts because of their open design/non sealing front volume.

For that reason I don't think you should dismiss earbuds classed as 'bassy' especially for the genres you mention. Because earbuds so roll off in the sub bass anyway. Most bass earbuds have mid bass emphasis and a slowly rolled off sub bass, other less bassy earbuds have excessive roll off below 100hz.

$30 (+ shipping) Willsound MK2 (you can opt for an MMCX version). Slightly mid bassy with good sub bass extension, good for modern music and has good detail and clear neutral highs.


It's a good starter earbud coming from IEMs as it performs well all round excelling in dynamics and good for EDM/pop and rock music.

I even modded mine to clean up the bass further, but thats an optional, advanced mod. It sounds very good stock too.


----------



## Dabbaranks

danimeisteR said:


> I am new to this and I don't have the knowledge to explain it. If this can be of any guidance, I mostly listen to electronic music, hip-hop and rock. I got 2 entry-level headphones about 6 months ago, the Hifiman HE4xx and the DT770 Pro 250 Ohms and I prefer the Hifiman. I think the hifiman are just more fun for the kind of music I listen to. I really really like the DT770 Pro too, they are really comfortable and the sound is really detailed. Another thing: now that I think about it, I don't like headphones that add too much bass, I really enjoy listening to cristal clear details in the music. I hope that helps. Thanks for the help!



For hip hop, neo soul, and rnb, I currently am always reaching for the Sabia V6 pearl and Willsound mk2 with VJC cable. Both provide a nice bass thump with vocal clarity in my opinion and are under your budget.


----------



## danimeisteR

seanc6441 said:


> $30 (+ shipping) Willsound MK2 (you can opt for an MMCX version). Slightly mid bassy with good sub bass extension, good for modern music and has good detail and clear neutral highs.



Thanks for the advice. I will look into it while I get more responses


----------



## mbwilson111

danimeisteR said:


> Thanks for the advice, but allow me to be ignorant here. These are pretty cheap options (not in quality, I mean in price). Since I'm willing to spend up until $70, wouldn't I find much better options or are there no significant differences?



I have a few buds that are around $50 - $70   and to be honest, I have quite a few in the $10 -$30 range that I like just as much (or more).


----------



## seanc6441

earbud pricing and sound quality do not always corrolate well. There's many way over priced stuff and also many underpriced great perfomers. So choose by popularity/reviews ratger than price.

I second was mbwilson said, dont let the price sway your decision too much. Cheap usually means non premium construction but not always lesser sound quality.

I have many sub $50 gear that sounds as good as my $100+ gear.


----------



## danimeisteR

Dabbaranks said:


> For hip hop, neo soul, and rnb, I currently am always reaching for the Sabia V6 pearl and Willsound mk2 with VJC cable. Both provide a nice bass thump with vocal clarity in my opinion and are under your budget.


Thanks for the answer, but where can I get them from (I checked amazon and aliexpress and no sign of any of them).


----------



## danimeisteR

mbwilson111 said:


> I have a few buds that are around $50 - $70   and to be honest, I have quite a few in the $10 -$30 range that I like just as much (or more).


Even better, I don't have the need to waste my money if it's not necessary. Could you tell me your three favourite ones? Can I buy them at aliexpress or amazon?


----------



## Dabbaranks

danimeisteR said:


> Thanks for the advice, but allow me to be ignorant here. These are pretty cheap options (not in quality, I mean in price). Since I'm willing to spend up until $70, wouldn't I find much better options or are there no significant differences?



I’d take that 70 dollars and and get like 3 well priced buds to switch between, 

The price scaling in iems seems to not apply to earbuds up to a certain price point. I read a post here that went into detail about earbud driver technology vs iem driver tech, and that was my conclusion.


----------



## seanc6441

danimeisteR said:


> Thanks for the answer, but where can I get them from (I checked amazon and aliexpress and no sign of any of them).


The mk2 is custom order through willsound on facebook. He's a niche seller so he operates through fb and can ship internationally to around the world.

My advice is to go for the mmcx version and add a nice cable. The stock one is cheap feeling.

Also the stock shell is white, not my preference but you can probably choose white/black if you order.


----------



## mbwilson111

danimeisteR said:


> Thanks for the answer, but where can I get them from (I checked amazon and aliexpress and no sign of any of them).



I have both the Sabia Pearl and a Willsound MK1 and love them both but would not suggest you start with them.  They are more difficult to source ( I think the Pearl is sold out at the moment) and shipping adds a lot.

I suggest you start with somthing that you can get from Amazon  or Aliexpress.  Then if you get addicted like many of us you can look into the more specialized ones.


----------



## mbwilson111

danimeisteR said:


> Even better, I don't have the need to waste my money if it's not necessary. Could you tell me your three favourite ones? Can I buy them at aliexpress or amazon?



Wow that would be difficult for me... have you seen how many I have?   lol

I think my favorite is usually what I have in the ears at the time  At the moment that actually happens to be a pair of IEMs not buds.


----------



## FastAndClean

they are soo sweet


----------



## danimeisteR

mbwilson111 said:


> Wow that would be difficult for me... have you seen how many I have?   lol
> 
> I think my favorite is usually what I have in the ears at the time  At the moment that actually happens to be a pair of IEMs not buds.


Think of it as in "if you could only take 2 to a desert island...?"


----------



## danimeisteR

mbwilson111 said:


> I have both the Sabia Pearl and a Willsound MK1 and love them both but would not suggest you start with them.  They are more difficult to source ( I think the Pearl is sold out at the moment) and shipping adds a lot.
> 
> I suggest you start with somthing that you can get from Amazon  or Aliexpress.  Then if you get addicted like many of us you can look into the more specialized ones.



This is really sensible advice, thanks. I think I will start with the YINCROW RW-777 since the X6, which were $20 cheaper got a lot of appraisal.


----------



## mbwilson111

danimeisteR said:


> This is really sensible advice, thanks. I think I will start with the YINCROW RW-777 since the X6, which were $20 cheaper got a lot of appraisal.



This store has it for less at the moment

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MIS...phone-Earbuds-Metal-Earphone/32915954926.html


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

My Yincrow RW-9 and K's 64ohm arrived today.  Something to audition this evening!


----------



## mbwilson111

The Yincrow RW-777 Is a really nice earbud.  I was lucky enough last year to get one of the remaining few with the purple cable.   The only problem I have with it is the lack of a stem to help me wiggle it into place and kind of "pin it down."   Someone with younger more nimble fingers probably would have no problem.  I think someone said they are more comfortable without a stem.  I need to spend more time with them.


----------



## danimeisteR

mbwilson111 said:


> The Yincrow RW-777 Is a really nice earbud.  I was lucky enough last year to get one of the remaining few with the purple cable.   The only problem I have with it is the lack of a stem to help me wiggle it into place and kind of "pin it down."   Someone with younger more nimble fingers probably would have no problem.  I think someone said they are more comfortable without a stem.  I need to spend more time with them.



I got exactly that model with the fucsia cable. Their price at that shop is €26, which is really cheap.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

seanc6441 said:


> The mk2 is custom order through willsound on facebook. He's a niche seller so he operates through fb and can ship internationally to around the world.
> 
> My advice is to go for the mmcx version and add a nice cable. The stock one is cheap feeling.
> 
> Also the stock shell is white, not my preference but you can probably choose white/black if you order.


My vote also goes to MK2. Really amazing for the price.


----------



## waynes world (Mar 15, 2019)

danimeisteR said:


> This is really sensible advice, thanks. I think I will start with the YINCROW RW-777 since the X6, which were $20 cheaper got a lot of appraisal.



Also consider the Yincrow RW-9. I got one based on ClieOS's recommendation, and I'm very happy with it:



ClieOS said:


> RW-9 is probably best described as the mid ground between the more V-shaped sounding X6 and the slightly mid focus RW-777.  It is still slightly V-shaped, but with a much better textured and detailed vocal range, making it the best belanced sound signature in the whole Yincrow lineup. While the overall SQ is about the same as RW-777 (which is about upper mid to lower high in my book), I actually prefer it over RW-777 as it is much more versatile when it comes to different music genres. All and all, I'll call it a win for Yincrow, especially since it is priced cheaper than RW-777.



Btw, sorry for your wallet!


----------



## chinmie

danimeisteR said:


> Think of it as in "if you could only take 2 to a desert island...?"



easy for me: I'd take the Willsound PK16 and MK2


----------



## HungryPanda

I'd take the Willsound Mk2 and Sunrise SW Dragon II


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> easy for me: I'd take the Willsound PK16 and MK2





HungryPanda said:


> I'd take the Willsound Mk2 and Sunrise SW Dragon II



Out of those, I have the MK2, and yes, the MK2's are no-brainers as well.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

For me, TY HI-Z 650 and ZoomFred...


----------



## HungryPanda

But what if the desert island has no generator


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> But what if the desert island has no generator



Solar power.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

So I've given the K's 64 and the RW-9s a listen.  They are both great!  lol...I'm losing track of my earbud hierarchy!  They both have a nice full, rich sound quality.  The K's seem to have a bit of reverb that makes piano and organ sound really great.


----------



## HungryPanda

I like all K's earbuds except the K's 200


----------



## exavolt

chinmie said:


> easy for me: I'd take the Willsound PK16 and MK2


I thought you'll pick Liesbesleid.

PK16 and EBX for me.


----------



## chinmie

exavolt said:


> I thought you'll pick Liesbesleid.
> 
> PK16 and EBX for me.



i will not use and my Liebesleid on a desert island and subjected it to hostile weather. it's made of metal (you don't want to shove cold or hot metal in your ears) and the humidity would ruin the cable color quickly

so the choice is not based on best sound alone
if i travel and stays at comfy hotels, of course I'll bring the Liebesleid


----------



## purplesun (Mar 16, 2019)

danimeisteR said:


> Think of it as in "if you could only take 2 to a desert island...?"


One Vido and one E808+

Plus boatload of earbud spare parts & some tools from taobao!
Teach a man to fish - with a loophole


----------



## waynes world

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> So I've given the K's 64 and the RW-9s a listen.  They are both great!  lol...I'm losing track of my earbud hierarchy!  They both have a nice full, rich sound quality.  The K's seem to have a bit of reverb that makes piano and organ sound really great.



Right on! My 64's should be here soon


----------



## danimeisteR

Can anyone explain to me why am I finding earbuds with high impedances (like 400 ohms)? I assumed high impedances were only for big headphones.


----------



## HungryPanda

If you have a good desktop amp earbuds with high impedance earbuds sound more like full sized headphones


----------



## chinmie

danimeisteR said:


> Can anyone explain to me why am I finding earbuds with high impedances (like 400 ohms)? I assumed high impedances were only for big headphones.





HungryPanda said:


> If you have a good desktop amp earbuds with high impedance earbuds sound more like full sized headphones



yup, exactly. my PS100-500 is like a mini ATH R70X with a slightly smaller staging.


----------



## snip3r77

Is there a cheap and good version of high inpedance I should try


----------



## HungryPanda

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...bud-300ohms-Earbud-Flat-Head/32783590564.html


----------



## zozito

Yincrow rw-777 vs Toneking TO65 and TO180? Opinions, please?


----------



## seanc6441

zozito said:


> Yincrow rw-777 vs Toneking TO65 and TO180? Opinions, please?


The TO65 is like the forgotton son of the toneking family. Has anyone here actually heard it? Haven't seen anything written about it as far as I can remember.


----------



## viatraco

seanc6441 said:


> The TO65 is like the forgotton son of the toneking family. Has anyone here actually heard it? Haven't seen anything written about it as far as I can remember.


I have TO65 since few months. Mid-centric and polite. Easy to drive, but better sounding with amp. Recessed treble and bass. Best bare or with donut. It stayed with me for listening on higher volume, because Monk+ or BK2 was fatiguing. Second reason was mmcx and using short balanced cable with Radsone ES100.


----------



## Themilkman46290

I am addicted to high impedance buds with my zishan ak4497 dsd, does anyone know and good cheap diy destop amps for high impedance buds? (cheap like $60-90) i am curious to see how much better they get. Because as it is my k's samsara definitely compete with big headphones ( i have heard the hd598, hd600, hd650, k602,k701, m50x, susvarna, dt770 250ohm, t50rp mk3 and i have the
 sr80e, he4xx, e-mu purple heart) makes me curious but i dont want to spend too much because i like being on the go (dont own computer, dont have a desk at home)
I know yhis isnt the right thread but would like to hear of uour guys input before i ask in the appropriate thread


----------



## viatraco

Themilkman46290 said:


> I am addicted to high impedance buds with my zishan ak4497 dsd, does anyone know and good cheap diy destop amps for high impedance buds? (cheap like $60-90) i am curious to see how much better they get. Because as it is my k's samsara definitely compete with big headphones ( i have heard the hd598, hd600, hd650, k602,k701, m50x, susvarna, dt770 250ohm, t50rp mk3 and i have the
> sr80e, he4xx, e-mu purple heart) makes me curious but i dont want to spend too much because i like being on the go (dont own computer, dont have a desk at home)
> I know yhis isnt the right thread but would like to hear of uour guys input before i ask in the appropriate thread



Zenek Uno/Duo - wonderful DIY amp from Poland 70-80$ for used


----------



## DBaldock9

Themilkman46290 said:


> I am addicted to high impedance buds with my zishan ak4497 dsd, does anyone know and good cheap diy destop amps for high impedance buds? (cheap like $60-90) i am curious to see how much better they get. Because as it is my k's samsara definitely compete with big headphones ( i have heard the hd598, hd600, hd650, k602,k701, m50x, susvarna, dt770 250ohm, t50rp mk3 and i have the
> sr80e, he4xx, e-mu purple heart) makes me curious but i dont want to spend too much because i like being on the go (dont own computer, dont have a desk at home)
> I know yhis isnt the right thread but would like to hear of uour guys input before i ask in the appropriate thread



I've got a Little Bear B4-X Dual Mono Tube Amp (w/Balanced 2.5mm TRRS & Single-Ended 3.5mm TRS Output) on order, and I'm hoping it works well & sound good with my high impedance earbuds.
It's ~$100, which is a bit higher than your request, but it could be worth the extra $10.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Lit...hone-headphone-amplifier-amp/32975301466.html


----------



## Themilkman46290

DBaldock9 said:


> I've got a Little Bear B4-X Dual Mono Tube Amp (w/Balanced 2.5mm TRRS & Single-Ended 3.5mm TRS Output) on order, and I'm hoping it works well & sound good with my high impedance earbuds.
> It's ~$100, which is a bit higher than your request, but it could be worth the extra $10.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Lit...hone-headphone-amplifier-amp/32975301466.html


My wife has been itching for a reason to get that same model but she she insist i buy our next toy (she has twice the gear as i do) so if you persuaded me to get one, i am sure she would be very happy  i dont mind waiting till you could give me your impressions, hasnt steared me wrong so far!


----------



## Themilkman46290

viatraco said:


> Zenek Uno/Duo - wonderful DIY amp from Poland 70-80$ for used


I will keep my eyes open for that, maybe easy to find since im in ukraine, thinks for the suggestion is there any website?  I couldnt find any new


----------



## Bonzo78

I built a "Pocket class A" from XRK971, on sale here:
https://www.etsy.com/listing/522023157/pocket-class-a-headphone-amplifier
I'm really satisfied, you can also do some cap rolling


----------



## assassin10000

seanc6441 said:


> The TO65 is like the forgotton son of the toneking family. Has anyone here actually heard it? Haven't seen anything written about it as far as I can remember.



https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/toneking-t065.22748/reviews



Spoiler: From audio123's review



*Lows*

The sub-bass extension of the TO65 is rather average. I find the decay to be fast and it is accompanied with a quick rumble that speeds up the overall sound. This helps to create more impact and I find the dynamics face a significant improvement as a result. The mid-bass does not have a huge slam to it. It presents itself in a rather laid back approach so you will not feel it overpowering the other aspects of the frequency range. The quantity may be lacking for some but it has a polite presentation. The transition from bass to lower mids is quite smooth. I find the bass to be fatigue-free as it is enjoyable and the quantity is appropriate.

*Mids*

The TO65 has a rather smooth and balanced midrange that is quite polite. The lower mids has a rather good amount of body and male vocals does not sound hollow here. Moving on to the upper mids, I personally find it slightly forward and this aids the reproduction of female vocals. It is not the thick and lush kind of midrange but it operates on a rather conservative approach. There is good control with decent level of details retrieval.

*Highs*

The treble is extended quite decently and it is controlled and tight in its presentation. I find the energy is slightly lacking and the sparkle is minimal. There is no sibilance and harshness in the sound at all. The amount of air presents is not a lot but I feel there is still a good quantity to it. Clarity is rather decent and the details retrieval is quite good. There is lack of crisp at times but the definition is there.

*Soundstage*

The TO65 has nice width and depth for its soundstage. The width is not the widest I have heard but there is space to minimise the congestion of tracks. Positioning of vocals and instruments are quite good. The depth is quite close in. I find the TO65 soundstage performs up to its price point.

*Conclusion*

The TO65 is a smooth sounding detachable earbud that one can listen to, especially for music with a slower pace. With such a polite sound signature, I find that it is very easy to listen to. The treble is detailed and precise in its articulation. The earbud has good build quality and visual appeal. In addition, it comes with a nice carrying case to store the earbud so you can bring it around.


----------



## DBaldock9

Themilkman46290 said:


> My wife has been itching for a reason to get that same model but she she insist i buy our next toy (she has twice the gear as i do) so if you persuaded me to get one, i am sure she would be very happy  i dont mind waiting till you could give me your impressions, hasnt steared me wrong so far!



If the Walnut F1 amp was still available (~$30 - $35), I would certainly recommend it.  It works well with both high and low impedance earbuds.
I have sent messages to several AliExpress vendors, asking if they could request that the manufacturer make some more F1 amps.  

I've got one that works, and one that I accidentally damaged (etches broken while removing op-amp socket).
The F1 doesn't have much space for op-amp / capacitor rolling (since the battery is above the socket), but if it's re-housed in a case that's deeper (or wider), there would be space for larger op-amps & capacitors.


----------



## Themilkman46290

DBaldock9 said:


> If the Walnut F1 amp was still available (~$30 - $35), I would certainly recommend it.  It works well with both high and low impedance earbuds.
> I have sent messages to several AliExpress vendors, asking if they could request that the manufacturer make some more F1 amps.
> 
> I've got one that works, and one that I accidentally damaged (etches broken while removing op-amp socket).
> The F1 doesn't have much space for op-amp / capacitor rolling (since the battery is above the socket), but if it's re-housed in a case that's deeper (or wider), there would be space for larger op-amps & capacitors.


Yeah i like the f1, powers all my buds just right, i am thinking about rolling caps on it but the little bears balanced tubes have me curious, wonder if they can push it he ty hi z hp650


----------



## purplesun (Mar 16, 2019)

Themilkman46290 said:


> I am addicted to high impedance buds with my zishan ak4497 dsd, does anyone know and good cheap diy destop amps for high impedance buds? (cheap like $60-90) i am curious to see how much better they get. I know yhis isnt the right thread but would like to hear of uour guys input before i ask in the appropriate thread


I ordered a few cheap opamp-based headphone amp recently; should be arriving next week:

1. Topping NX3s - impressive output claims for the price.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Top...ni-3-5mm-dac-amp-topping-nx3/32932901194.html

2. Apheared 47-based DIY amp - currently using the earlier version of this amp. Ridiculously cheap.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIF...o-Noise-Finished-Board-T0029/32965829001.html


----------



## Themilkman46290

Can anyone compare ty hi z hp650 to k's samsara, or seahf f400s, been eyeballing them for a year and getting really tempted


----------



## DBaldock9

Themilkman46290 said:


> Can anyone compare ty hi z hp650 to k's samsara, or seahf f400s, been eyeballing them for a year and getting really tempted



I've got a set of the TY Hi-Z HP650 (2.5mm TRRS - I converted them with my own plug) - and they have a good amount of Bass, the Treble is OK, but the Midrange seems to be pretty recessed.
I prefer the sound of my K's 500, and I believe others have said that the newer Samsara sound even better than the 500.


----------



## danimeisteR

purplesun said:


> I ordered a few cheap opamp-based headphone amp recently; should be arriving next week:
> 
> 1. Topping NX3s - impressive output claims for the price.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Top...ni-3-5mm-dac-amp-topping-nx3/32932901194.html



I was just looking at the pictures and the topping NX3s has an amazing style.


----------



## Themilkman46290

DBaldock9 said:


> I've got a set of the TY Hi-Z HP650 (2.5mm TRRS - I converted them with my own plug) - and they have a good amount of Bass, the Treble is OK, but the Midrange seems to be pretty recessed.
> I prefer the sound of my K's 500, and I believe others have said that the newer Samsara sound even better than the 500.


Thanks for that, i am glad i havent grabbed them yet, can anyone say how the original rose masya (black plastic version) compares to samsara?? 


Basically my wife hasent gound "her pair" of buds yet, she likes the samsara but wants a bit more mids


----------



## purplesun (Mar 17, 2019)

danimeisteR said:


> I was just looking at the pictures and the topping NX3s has an amazing style.


Umm... thanks, I think. Not exactly what I was going for in the NX3s.
I think portable headphone amp setups look rather nerdy to me anyway.


Edit: just read your PC setup in the signature. Now that is amazing style! Appears audio listening must be, at best, your second most expensive hobby


----------



## Marcos Fontana

DBaldock9 said:


> I've got a set of the TY Hi-Z HP650 (2.5mm TRRS - I converted them with my own plug) - and they have a good amount of Bass, the Treble is OK, but the Midrange seems to be pretty recessed.
> I prefer the sound of my K's 500, and I believe others have said that the newer Samsara sound even better than the 500.


But which one? I found k's 500 k's 500 samsara, k's 600, k's 300. This is a mess. Ty line is easy to pick. I have many k's in my basket but I don't know which one to choose.


----------



## Themilkman46290

Marcos Fontana said:


> But which one? I found k's 500 k's 500 samsara, k's 600, k's 300. This is a mess. Ty line is easy to pick. I have many k's in my basket but I don't know which one to choose.


K's600, Ks 500, k's 300 samsara, k's 300 are all very different models, he was mentioning the 500 and samsara, many say the samsara are better then the 500, i dont have the 500 but i can say samsara are really really good, someone told me the 500 has a wider soundstage wile the samsara are "smoother and slightly warmer" but i couldnt say for sure.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Themilkman46290 said:


> K's600, Ks 500, k's 300 samsara, k's 300 are all very different models, he was mentioning the 500 and samsara, many say the samsara are better then the 500, i dont have the 500 but i can say samsara are really really good, someone told me the 500 has a wider soundstage wile the samsara are "smoother and slightly warmer" but i couldnt say for sure.


Thank you,

So, I think that k's 500 is more suitable for me. Soundstage is really important. Do you know anything about the 600?


----------



## Themilkman46290

Marcos Fontana said:


> Thank you,
> 
> So, I think that k's 500 is more suitable for me. Soundstage is really important. Do you know anything about the 600?


Cant say much, have to check the thread i was told but cant remember details, if you search my posts in this thread i am sure you can find, and i remember someone made a good comparison of these buds on this thread that had helped me choose


----------



## Marcos Fontana

TY!

I will take a look.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have K's K600, K500 2Nd Revision, K300 Pro, K300, K200 & K64. Favourite is the K600 (sounds like my Sennheiser HD650) K500 is very good as are all the others except K200 which is garbage


----------



## wskl

@Marcos Fontana - Post #35565 should help you.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 17, 2019)

Marcos Fontana said:


> Thank you,
> 
> So, I think that k's 500 is more suitable for me. Soundstage is really important. Do you know anything about the 600?


With all these earbuds being the same shell and near identical driver and tuning setups. Soundstage is only really varied by frequency response in this case, so whichever earbud has a more U shaped signature will probably sound more spacious.

Of course you'll be sacrificing midrange emphasis to get that larger soundstage, as is the case for the emx500 for example. An earbud with a big wide soundstage, but with a mid range recession, and a slight low mid dip.

Maybe I'm missing another important factor here about how soundstage is achieved, but I don't think so.


----------



## coolice

the pt15 i got from aliexpress less than 3 months ago, right driver stop working now, does anyone have similar experience if replacement are possible?


----------



## Marcos Fontana (Mar 17, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> With all these earbuds being the same shell and near identical driver and tuning setups. Soundstage is only really varied by frequency response in this case, so whichever earbud has a more U shaped signature will probably sound more spacious.
> 
> Of course you'll be sacrificing midrange emphasis to get that larger soundstage, as is the case for the emx500 for example. An earbud with a big wide soundstage, but with a mid range recession, and a slight low mid dip.
> 
> Maybe I'm missing another important factor here about how soundstage is achieved, but I don't think so.





wskl said:


> @Marcos Fontana - Post #35565 should help you.


Nice post. Thank you @wskl and @HungryPanda. I will get the K600 and Samsara


----------



## Marcos Fontana

seanc6441 said:


> With all these earbuds being the same shell and near identical driver and tuning setups. Soundstage is only really varied by frequency response in this case, so whichever earbud has a more U shaped signature will probably sound more spacious.
> 
> Of course you'll be sacrificing midrange emphasis to get that larger soundstage, as is the case for the emx500 for example. An earbud with a big wide soundstage, but with a mid range recession, and a slight low mid dip.
> 
> Maybe I'm missing another important factor here about how soundstage is achieved, but I don't think so.


Yes Sean, for my HE400i I had to lose some mid range to get some soundstage. i didn't have the courage yet to change it physically with mods. Did you ever try any change in the shell, like opening holes in the earbud shell to expand the soundstage?


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 17, 2019)

Marcos Fontana said:


> Yes Sean, for my HE400i I had to lose some mid range to get some soundstage. i didn't have the courage yet to change it physically with mods. Did you ever try any change in the shell, like opening holes in the earbud shell to expand the soundstage?


The mx500 shell by default is about 50% open back, the bottom is technically more semi closed with a bass port but has good space between the driver and the back.

The top side is an area you can try to open up to improve the soundstage. Since the back of the driver has a large opening at the top, this backwave produced hits directly off the plastic that is only millimeters away. That would probably effect staging.

So if you were to drill 2-3 small ports in this section



And retune the driver to adjust for the vents you just opened. You should be able to improve the soundstaging by simply opening up the back more and reducing the cup reflections which make it sound 'cupped' or closed off like many closed backs do.

Downside is you also mess with other properties of closed/vs open tuning, so i think a few resonaces will shift or change thus changing the sound sig slightly.

This is basically the mod I'm doing to my kube. It sounds more open, with less uneven FR when opened up slightly. But i also have to move from using them with foams, to foamless because you gain some bass boost and less emphasis between 1-3khz thus it sounding a little darker/warmer than stock, but with a more neutral sound sig overall and much better staging overall. Provided you tune the ports right with dampening.

I cannot say how each individual bud performs when opened up more/less, as the . But you can make the assumption that soundstage will always improve when the back is more open...


----------



## GREQ

As promised...

 

To my ears the lower-bass energy doesn't sound as weak as it looks, and of course position/fit will make a significant difference, but still, bassheads need not apply.
Thickness of bass around 100hz is pretty much what I expected.

At first I was surprised to see that kind balance between bass and treble.
But after having a listen to my 'is this too trebly?' test track (Radiohead - Creep, which has very strong cymbals in the refrain) I was reassured that this measurement is fair.
Maybe my ears are just more sensitive to the thick high bass, and my brain hears that slightly over everything else.

The 'dip' between 2-6kHz sounds quite natural to my ears, and is definitely part of my 'preferred signature' or flavour. Gives me the impression of a very believable timbre.

Anyone who looks at a lot of graphs might notice the similarities with some Grados; these definitely have a similar kind of 'live on stage' presentation with good rock/metal/acoustic synergy.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 17, 2019)

GREQ said:


> As promised...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm guessing the mids sound full and top end is airy. Definitely would be slightly subdued in the presence region but that would suit relaxed listening. The bass looks to roll off early as you say but the mid bass seems very neutral in relation to 1khz.

I'd like to hear that earbud based on that chart, but I'd probably miss a little bass punch and extension. Then again bass measurements arent reliable on earbuds so maybe they do perform differently than the chart suggests.


----------



## GREQ

seanc6441 said:


> I'm guessing the mids sound full and top end is airy. Definitely would be slightly subdued in the presence region but that would suit relaxed listening. The bass looks to roll off early as you say but the mid bass seems very neutral in relation to 1khz.
> 
> I'd like to hear that earbud based on that chart, but I'd probably miss a little bass punch and extension. Then again bass measurements arent reliable on earbuds so maybe they do perform differently than the chart suggests.


Agree on all points. 
Definitely good for relaxed listening, and a nice contrast to what I normally use (sabia v6 and kube)


----------



## viatraco

What will be the best match/synergy to Radsone Es100 in price ranges 20$, 50$ and 100$ ?


----------



## gazzington

My kube 2 arrived this weekend. Great fun buds. Bass monsters. Must be the JVC sz2000s of the earbuds world!


----------



## Marcos Fontana

seanc6441 said:


> The mx500 shell by default is about 50% open back, the bottom is technically more semi closed with a bass port but has good space between the driver and the back.
> 
> The top side is an area you can try to open up to improve the soundstage. Since the back of the driver has a large opening at the top, this backwave produced hits directly off the plastic that is only millimeters away. That would probably effect staging.
> 
> ...


I bought some vidos and I will try the same procedure. Thank you!


----------



## jogawag (Mar 18, 2019)

This is a continuation of the previous report...

My MX985 cable coating has half come off, so MX985 was deposited with experts to support MMCX (with 70$! which included sending fee.).
I would like to submit the photo here, because now it has been completed cleanly!

I am using VE thin pads and donut pads now.
Depending on some copper cables, the sound of the MX985 can be made milder.
Using a balanced cable (especially in the ACG mode) will obviously make the SoundStage wider.


----------



## seanc6441

Marcos Fontana said:


> I bought some vidos and I will try the same procedure. Thank you!


No problem. Vido is a good one to test with. Keep in mind you have to counter the amount of airflow change by using slightly more dampening behind the driver and/or using thinner foams if the sound becomes too bassy/warm.


----------



## doggiemom

Been catching up on reading here, so sorry for quoting these old posts.  I've been in mourning:  I went to an overnight work meeting, and left my VUNBUDS in the hotel.  



seanc6441 said:


> The mk2 is custom order through willsound on facebook. He's a niche seller so he operates through fb and can ship internationally to around the world.



If you want a stock build of a Wilsound bud, the shipping (at least to the US) is cheaper if ordered through Rholupat:  http://www.rholupat.com/custom-earphone  The MK2 with VJC is really nice.  I spend too much darn money on that site....... I've been eyeing the Kanzenoka bundles all weekend (especially the blue one), but can't bring myself to pull the trigger.  



HungryPanda said:


> If you have a good desktop amp earbuds with high impedance earbuds sound more like full sized headphones



Agreed.  When I don't want to mess around with the computer, multiple components and full sized cans, my go to setup is DAP (Hiby R6 or KANN) > Cavalli Liquid Carbon X > ZoomFred.  I'm listening to it now.  



Themilkman46290 said:


> Can anyone compare ty hi z hp650 to k's samsara, or seahf f400s, been eyeballing them for a year and getting really tempted



Those are pretty different buds, IMHO.  I haven't heard the HP650s, but I have TY Hi-Z 150s and TY Hi-Z 32ohm and honestly hate them both.  The TY tuning is way too bright for me.  The Samsara is bassy and full sounding, and not bright.  Haven't heard the Seahf you mentioned.



Marcos Fontana said:


> But which one? I found k's 500 k's 500 samsara, k's 600, k's 300. This is a mess. Ty line is easy to pick. I have many k's in my basket but I don't know which one to choose.



Thanks, wskl for finding that link.


----------



## Daegalus (Mar 17, 2019)

So I finally had time to run another test of the X6, RW-9, the MX365, and the MEMT T5.

First X6 vs RW-9. In my previous post I mentioned how i could barely tell the difference. Now that I plugged it in to my FIIO BTR3, with a splitter and compared side by side. I do have to say the RW-9 is superior all around. Smoother, slightly cleaner soundstage, slightly better instrument separation. The X6 is no slouch, they are still very close, but the X6 sounds more raw compared the the RW-9's smoothness and cleanliness. I Definitely see why its preferred. But it takes a bit of power to really showcase the difference. They are super close to my ears.

When I went back and tried my MX365s from Sennheiser, they are absolute trash in comparison to the previous 2. It just didn't sound good.

I am really intrigued by the Semi-in-ear style, so I jumped for the MEMT T5. It sounded pretty great, but their Highs are so crystal clear and present, that it triggered a different problem. I normally can't handle lots og highs. I preferred the rolled off/veiled approach  as too much highs makes my ears fatigued fast. Its why I tend to prefer Warm setups. Well the T5s had AMAZING highs, really clear, great seperation, very forward. I listened to Enter Sandman, and for the first time I heard those cymbals in the back like I was standing right next to them. But this is a problem for me as its something I am very not used to, and kinda messed with the music for me. So very good stuff, just not my preferred tuning. I might be able to EQ it down, but I don't want to deal with EQ profiles.

I also tested the MEMT X5s and the Einsear T2, but those are IEMs and not part of this thread.

RW-9s are now my main daily driver. Until I find something better or an SIEM thats similar.

Also question to others, how does the donut foams change the sound of the earbuds?


----------



## HungryPanda

@doggiemom sorry to hear about your vunbuds, I take it you called the hotel


----------



## Marcos Fontana

seanc6441 said:


> No problem. Vido is a good one to test with. Keep in mind you have to counter the amount of airflow change by using slightly more dampening behind the driver and/or using thinner foams if the sound becomes too bassy/warm.


Ty for the information. Did you buy some shells and drivers from Ali? Do you have good ones that you could share? I'm really intererested in tuning too.


----------



## jogawag (Mar 18, 2019)

Daegalus said:


> Also question to others, how does the donut foams change the sound of the earbuds?



Generally, donut foams is used when you want to boost the bass while leaving treble.
Or only just for adjusting the size of the face of speaker...


----------



## rkw

viatraco said:


> What will be the best match/synergy to Radsone Es100 in price ranges 20$, 50$ and 100$ ?


Your first priority should be to choose earbuds according to your preferred sound character, not how it matches with the ES100. In my experience, almost any earbud will match fine with the ES100, which is very versatile and neutral, and certainly delivers more than enough power for any earbud. The only thing I would mention is that when selecting earbuds, don't forget with the ES100 you have the option of choosing balanced 2.5mm cables.


----------



## seanc6441

Marcos Fontana said:


> Ty for the information. Did you buy some shells and drivers from Ali? Do you have good ones that you could share? I'm really intererested in tuning too.


Chitty store and yuming store on aliexpress are good places to look for diy drivers. Many are 150-600ohm and some lower.

I cannot say for sure which are the best, the 400ohm I bought was only tested briefly and it sounds neutral-smooth.

I usually just mod my budget earbuds like RY4S,  Vido, Emx500, mx760 graphene, monk plus etc. Because I know the stock sound and can experiment to see if I can improve it slightly.

So far the kube is the biggest improvement when modded, r4ys and vido can be improved too IMO. All three of those buds benefit from mods.


----------



## McCol

Ordered the Koss KDE250 tonight on Massdrop, $60 seemed a reasonable price.


----------



## waynes world

Daegalus said:


> So I finally had time to run another test of the X6, RW-9, the MX365, and the MEMT T5.
> 
> First X6 vs RW-9. In my previous post I mentioned how i could barely tell the difference. Now that I plugged it in to my FIIO BTR3, with a splitter and compared side by side. I do have to say the RW-9 is superior all around. Smoother, slightly cleaner soundstage, slightly better instrument separation. The X6 is no slouch, they are still very close, but the X6 sounds more raw compared the the RW-9's smoothness and cleanliness. I Definitely see why its preferred. But it takes a bit of power to really showcase the difference. They are super close to my ears.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the update, and for sharing the RW-9 love. They have become my mainly drivers lately as well.



rkw said:


> Your first priority should be to choose earbuds according to your preferred sound character, not how it matches with the ES100. In my experience, almost any earbud will match fine with the ES100, which is very versatile and neutral, and certainly delivers more than enough power for any earbud. The only thing I would mention is that when selecting earbuds, don't forget with the ES100 you have the option of choosing balanced 2.5mm cables.



+1 to all of that!


----------



## jibberish

I've had the Toneking TO400 for about a week and a half now, and I will note that I'm pretty unimpressed so far. Shouty mids, tinny treble that's missing detail, poor soundstage, no sense of layering or separation of instruments.  I keep burning them in while using other gear and checking in on them, but not really seeing a difference.  I thought that I've got source gear that should be up to the task (ES100, Topping NX1s, a behemoth mid 90s Pioneer receiver), but I dunno, maybe not?

They do appear to be properly in phase, and I've swapped out the cable with a couple different mmcx cables to rule that out, no difference. 

My impression so far is that RW-9 and Willsound MK2 are far superior, but don't want to give up on these too soon.


----------



## purplesun

jibberish said:


> Shouty mids, tinny treble that's missing detail, poor soundstage, no sense of layering or separation of instruments.
> They do appear to be properly in phase, and I've swapped out the cable with a couple different mmcx cables to rule that out, no difference.


Could still be wired out-of-phase after the MMCX connector. Though the sound stage should then be unnaturally huge.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

McCol said:


> Ordered the Koss KDE250 tonight on Massdrop, $60 seemed a reasonable price.


I got mine. Ty for share!


----------



## rkw

jibberish said:


> I've had the Toneking TO400 for about a week and a half now, and I will note that I'm pretty unimpressed so far. Shouty mids, tinny treble that's missing detail, poor soundstage, no sense of layering or separation of instruments.


The TO400 didn't work out for me. I found them bright sounding and lacking in bass. People who also have the TO200 seem to prefer it over the TO400.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 17, 2019)

rkw said:


> The TO400 didn't work out for me. I found them bright sounding and lacking in bass. People who also have the TO200 seem to prefer it over the TO400.


To600 is superior also IMO. But i didn't find the to400s dreadful or anything, just lacking in bass. The 600 is more well rounded and consistent in the mid-highs too, but I didn't find the t0400s poor in that area, if not a little clinical-dry and slightly emphasising deep vocals over the upper vocal range.

Only downside of this design is of course it's not going to have the largest soundstage as it's mostly closed back. Luckily the separation is good and it's narrow-ish staging and refined FR presents a lot of detail whilst the smooth FR keeps it from getting fatiguing.

Probably the best toneking earbud I've heard to date. If they could keep that signature in an open design and add slightly more bass extension so it hits a little deeper (not bad by any means in that regard though). I'd call it a true TOTL level earbud. As is it's very good for certain genres and moods but not excelling at others.


----------



## Degru

I've been considering a pair of higher end earbuds, and the Shozy BK seems more and more like the thing I would like: detailed and smooth natural/neutral sound signature. However, it's hard to find comparisons to things I've tried. My benchmark for detail atm is HD600, and I can't seem to find any concrete comparisons of tonality and detail to HD600. How would the Stardust compare?

The only earbuds I've had time with are Monks and Yincrow X6/Vido-with-thicc-foams, and both weren't very convincing on detail, though the X6 improved significantly with an EQ to reduce the 4k mountain. 

I actually did order a Shozy BK from Amazon once, but I apparently got a broken pair; even with the foams it sounded extremely thin and shrill no matter how I put it in, so I just sent it back.


----------



## assassin10000 (Mar 18, 2019)

Daegalus said:


> Also question to others, how does the donut foams change the sound of the earbuds?



As others have said, it increases bass without decreasing treble. It does this by helping seal the bud to your ear better, which helps direct the bass to your ear drum. It's the same issue when an IEM without a good seal has no bass.

Then there are various thin and thicker foams, which may potential reduce highs to one degree or another. There is also the Heigi thick foams which have thin areas/divots to seal like a thick foam but sound like a thin.


I ordered some small leather punches and I'm going to make my own style 'donut' foams with an offset hole that lines up with my ear canal. Since the ACG's I'm using has a solid center, I don't think standard donut foams do the best job. Currently I have a pair that I cut holes in.


----------



## exavolt

McCol said:


> Ordered the Koss KDE250 tonight on Massdrop, $60 seemed a reasonable price.


Reading some reviews at MD, it seems that people are having problem with the fit.

*Pretends didn't read* *Clicks join drop*


----------



## seanc6441

Degru said:


> I've been considering a pair of higher end earbuds, and the Shozy BK seems more and more like the thing I would like: detailed and smooth natural/neutral sound signature. However, it's hard to find comparisons to things I've tried. My benchmark for detail atm is HD600, and I can't seem to find any concrete comparisons of tonality and detail to HD600. How would the Stardust compare?
> 
> The only earbuds I've had time with are Monks and Yincrow X6/Vido-with-thicc-foams, and both weren't very convincing on detail, though the X6 improved significantly with an EQ to reduce the 4k mountain.
> 
> I actually did order a Shozy BK from Amazon once, but I apparently got a broken pair; even with the foams it sounded extremely thin and shrill no matter how I put it in, so I just sent it back.


I'd sooner recommend something else. The later bk I got was wholely unimpressive for the price. It was merely good but I prefered many cheaper options.

It seems when anyone brings up HD600/HD650 in this thread the most common recs seem to be the higher impedance earbuds like

Ks 600
Yinman 600
Ty HP-650
Maybe Toneking TO600?

These buds (well the few I've tried) are not THAT hard to drive despite the impedance. Any half decent amp or resonably powerful portable dap should do.

I found my modded kube earbud remarkably smooth full and neutral. It sounded like a full size open back. That was $8...

I don't own the hd600 but listening to a few other headphones, and my vintage hd540ii. Thats the best advice i can give you, but others who own the 600 may have some better suggestions.


----------



## Degru

Thank you, I will check these out. Interesting that they're all named after 6xx model numbers too


----------



## seanc6441

Degru said:


> Thank you, I will check these out. Interesting that they're all named after 6xx model numbers too


All around 600 ohm


----------



## fairx

I belive it co


Degru said:


> Thank you, I will check these out. Interesting that they're all named after 6xx model numbers too


I belive it correlates with their impedance. Ty 650 is 650ohm T600 is 600ohm.


----------



## Degru

Well, I just ordered K's 600 from ali, since it's $112 from NiceHCK ($107 if you apply the seller coupon) and with such a sale I figured that'd be the perfect price to try it out. Hope it sounds as good as everyone says it is. Also bought a Vido as backup, just in case


----------



## sareer007

What is an upgrade to sl 1.0+ ce in terms of clarity, seperation and imaging around 30 usd ?


----------



## HungryPanda

Degru said:


> Well, I just ordered K's 600 from ali, since it's $112 from NiceHCK ($107 if you apply the seller coupon) and with such a sale I figured that'd be the perfect price to try it out. Hope it sounds as good as everyone says it is. Also bought a Vido as backup, just in case


Feel sorry for the Vido


----------



## Degru

If anything I'll just put the foams from my broken Yincrow on it so I can have a thicc bassy bud as well when I feel like it. (isn't it confirmed that yincrow x6 = vido with better cable and foams?)


----------



## mbwilson111

Degru said:


> If anything I'll just put the foams from my broken Yincrow on it so I can have a thicc bassy bud as well when I feel like it. (isn't it confirmed that yincrow x6 = vido with better cable and foams?)



Put the x6 cable on your Vido.  Don't throw the x6 away.  One day if you do decide to do a bit of DIY you would have use for the shells and the cable of the x6.


----------



## nxnje

NiceHCK EB2 came this evening but i've never received these kind of double hole pads.
What are they for?
How can i wear those pads on the EB2?
any tips?
So much time i do not get into earbuds


----------



## mbwilson111

nxnje said:


> NiceHCK EB2 came this evening but i've never received these kind of double hole pads.
> What are they for?
> How can i wear those pads on the EB2?
> any tips?
> So much time i do not get into earbuds




Those are donut foams.  They fit on the same way as the regular ones but the front is open to allow more treble.  I don't use them because they never stay in place for me and take forever to try to get them on.


----------



## nxnje

mbwilson111 said:


> Those are donut foams.  They fit on the same way as the regular ones but the front is open to allow more treble.  I don't use them because they never stay in place for me and take forever to try to get them on.



Do you think i could use them as first pad and then putting a normal full pad on for a double pad configuration?


----------



## mbwilson111

nxnje said:


> Do you think i could use them as first pad and then putting a normal full pad on for a double pad configuration?



I think people who do that put the full pad on first.

If you need to make it bigger that is a way to do it.


----------



## jogawag (Mar 18, 2019)

nxnje said:


> Do you think i could use them as first pad and then putting a normal full pad on for a double pad configuration?



Usually for a double pad configuration, 1st full pad and 2nd donut pad like this.


----------



## nxnje

mbwilson111 said:


> I think people who do that put the full pad on first.
> 
> If you need to make it bigger that is a way to do it.





jogawag said:


> Usually for a double pad configuration, 1st full pad and 2nd donut pad like this.



Did it, gonna try them!


----------



## Degru

mbwilson111 said:


> Put the x6 cable on your Vido.  Don't throw the x6 away.  One day if you do decide to do a bit of DIY you would have use for the shells and the cable of the x6.


Well I've kept it this long, may as well.


----------



## snip3r77

seanc6441 said:


> I'd sooner recommend something else. The later bk I got was wholely unimpressive for the price. It was merely good but I prefered many cheaper options.
> 
> It seems when anyone brings up HD600/HD650 in this thread the most common recs seem to be the higher impedance earbuds like
> 
> ...


Do we have an “ry4s” in your 600 list?


----------



## seanc6441

snip3r77 said:


> Do we have an “ry4s” in your 600 list?


No because it's 32ohm?


----------



## seanc6441

Degru said:


> Well, I just ordered K's 600 from ali, since it's $112 from NiceHCK ($107 if you apply the seller coupon) and with such a sale I figured that'd be the perfect price to try it out. Hope it sounds as good as everyone says it is. Also bought a Vido as backup, just in case


I honestly think you made a good choice to choose one of them over the BK provided the mx500 shell fits well for you (same as the monk plus if you've tried that?).

I think @HungryPanda  would agree. He loves his k's 600.

A good thing about these high impedance medium sensitivity earbuds is that you can drive them from most decent portable daps but also try them on portable or even desk amps if you want as they have some wiggle room for extra power.


----------



## DBaldock9

ClieOS said:


> Ambie is hard to get a good fit (if you can call that a 'fit' at all), painful to wear for any extended period of time (as it clamps down on your outer ears) and sounds like a very cheap $1 thrill shop no-brand earbud. My advice? Avoid at all cost.
> 
> Smabat ST-10 on the other hand is excellent. I reckon it has probably somewhere between flagship and 2nd tier level of SQ. Very neutral sounding overall - while not exactly the same frequency response, I think the best I can describe ST-10 is that it is almost like a pair of Etymotic ER-4S in earbud's shell. Imaging and layering are some of the best I have heard.



How much was the Smabat ST-10 last week?  
Weren't they ~$85?

I just received a message from AVCCK Earphone Store, saying that the ST-10 is available again, but they're now $119.
At that price, I think I'd be more likely to order a set of K's 600.


----------



## Degru

seanc6441 said:


> I honestly think you made a good choice to choose one of them over the BK provided the mx500 shell fits well for you (same as the monk plus if you've tried that?).
> 
> I think @HungryPanda  would agree. He loves his k's 600.
> 
> A good thing about these high impedance medium sensitivity earbuds is that you can drive them from most decent portable daps but also try them on portable or even desk amps if you want as they have some wiggle room for extra power.


Yeah, the 600 ohms is kind of funny when you tell it to other people and they're like "wait what". I'd imagine it'd give them more flexibility to plug them into less stellar sources with high OI and not have any unwanted sound changes. I'm totally fine with mx500 shell, used monks as my daily driver portables back when my "main" headphone were a pair of cheap Superlux. If anything, the shell feels more premium than the BK shell if the broken unit I returned is anything to go by. Amazing cable, but it feels like it'd break from just bending over wrong with it in my pocket.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 18, 2019)

Degru said:


> Yeah, the 600 ohms is kind of funny when you tell it to other people and they're like "wait what". I'd imagine it'd give them more flexibility to plug them into less stellar sources with high OI and not have any unwanted sound changes. I'm totally fine with mx500 shell, used monks as my daily driver portables back when my "main" headphone were a pair of cheap Superlux. If anything, the shell feels more premium than the BK shell if the broken unit I returned is anything to go by. Amazing cable, but it feels like it'd break from just bending over wrong with it in my pocket.


I do like the bk cable, and I had a special place in my heart for my original Brown cable SE terminated bk. But it got damaged, i paid for a repair and decided to upgrade to a balanced version.

Got them back months later, cable was more grey than brown (so I'm sure they just replaced my SE bk with a new balanced one rather than repair and reterminate) and indeed it was balanced and looked new. The earbud sounded similar to what i remembered but nothing was special about it... Inever loved its sound like before.

Either my tastes changed after buying many other earbuds over that month, or the new unit just wasn't as sweet sounding. Nonetheless I'm glad I sold it on, just wasn't my cup of tea.


----------



## ClieOS

DBaldock9 said:


> How much was the Smabat ST-10 last week?
> Weren't they ~$85?
> 
> I just received a message from AVCCK Earphone Store, saying that the ST-10 is available again, but they're now $119.
> At that price, I think I'd be more likely to order a set of K's 600.



Nope. It was listed as $119 ( = RMB799) on Taobao store when I got mine.


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> I do like the bk cable, and I had a special place in my heart for my original Brown cable SE terminated bk. But it got damaged, i paid for a repair and decided to upgrade to a balanced version.
> 
> Got them back months later, cable was more grey than brown and indeed was balanced. The earbud looked the same, but i never loved its sound.
> 
> Either my tastes changed after buying many other earbuds over that month, or the new unit just wasn't as sweet sounding. Nonetheless I'm glad I sold it on, just wasn't my cup of tea.



Shozy ran out of the original brown cable used on BK so they have to change the cable to the dark grey cable on later. In fact 2nd hand brown cable version of BK is highly sought after in China.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 18, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> Shozy ran out of the original brown cable used on BK so they have to change the cable to the dark grey cable on later. In fact 2nd hand brown cable version of BK is highly sought after in China.


I feel like the difference was subtle. Old bk was slightly warm and very full sounding with some air but had a sweet midrange. Yes male vocals dominated, but female vocals could still sound sweet.

Newer bk was just as full but less warm, and it was dryer sounding (even though the old bk had that tendancy, it did not over do it). The mids were a bit lifeless, the treble was roughly the same, airy and fairly detailed.

Obviously my memory isnt 100% reliable but it was disappointing nonethless to hear the grey bk after listening to my original bk.


----------



## Degru

Interesting, there seems to be some issue with unit variance on the BK; even my seemingly broken pair still had perfect channel matching; it was just uh, extremely thin sounding. Not sure how it got through QC, maybe they just look at channel matching without looking at the actual FR of the thing, or something.


----------



## snip3r77

Slight off topic but I think guys are here super fast.

My 2pin 0.75 iem cable broke down. the IEM itself is $25.
Can you guys recommend me a good copper cable without being too expensive. I need it to be flexible and it's for commuting. THanks


----------



## seanc6441

Degru said:


> Interesting, there seems to be some issue with unit variance on the BK; even my seemingly broken pair still had perfect channel matching; it was just uh, extremely thin sounding. Not sure how it got through QC, maybe they just look at channel matching without looking at the actual FR of the thing, or something.


That's really odd to me because the bk is by far one of the most full sounding buds ives heard.

Were you using the stock foams?


----------



## Degru

seanc6441 said:


> That's really odd to me because the bk is by far one of the most full sounding buds ives heard.
> 
> Were you using the stock foams?


Yeah, I was. The detail was there, but it sounded thinner than monks. Sent it back to Amazon the next day.


----------



## ballog

seanc6441 said:


> I'd sooner recommend something else. The later bk I got was wholely unimpressive for the price. It was merely good but I prefered many cheaper options.
> 
> It seems when anyone brings up HD600/HD650 in this thread the most common recs seem to be the higher impedance earbuds like
> 
> ...



@seanc6441  Sean just bought the last pair of Kube V1 (in white). I have been mostly into open headphones lately (got a pair of HD558 & Grado SR80e) a few months back. I'm getting back into budget earbuds game from your impressions of the Kube. I hope the signature doesn't stray too far off from the SHE3800 which is my favorite pair (a bit more clarity and less loose bass would be nice).


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Mar 19, 2019)

Has anyone heard of these, i am shaking with excitement, looks like exactly what i have been hoping for       

I spotted them on a post in e. a. page of facebook


----------



## snip3r77

seanc6441 said:


> No because it's 32ohm?


I mean value high ohm


----------



## mbwilson111

snip3r77 said:


> I mean value high ohm



32 ohm is not high ohm for buds.  It is average.


----------



## seanc6441

Themilkman46290 said:


> Has anyone heard of these, i am shaking with excitement, looks like exactly what i have been hoping for
> 
> I spotted them on a post in e. a. page of facebook


I really like the look of that earbud. Seems like it was designed with thought.

Open back + interesting design + mmcx? Sign me up.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

ClieOS said:


> Nope. It was listed as $119 ( = RMB799) on Taobao store when I got mine.


Yes, you are right. They were in sale for $85. Normal price is $119. I will be waiting for the sale again.


----------



## Themilkman46290

seanc6441 said:


> I really like the look of that earbud. Seems like it was designed with thought.
> 
> Open back + interesting design + mmcx? Sign me up.


$108 on taobao, does look pretty tempting  metal construction and mmcx, 400ohm dual driver.. .


----------



## jogawag

sareer007 said:


> What is an upgrade to sl 1.0+ ce in terms of clarity, seperation and imaging around 30 usd ?


I would like recommend Willsound MK2 for you.


----------



## seanc6441

Themilkman46290 said:


> $108 on taobao, does look pretty tempting  metal construction and mmcx, 400ohm dual driver.. .


It's a single driver according to someone i asked but do the specs say dual driver??


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 19, 2019)

jogawag said:


> I would like recommend Willsound MK2 for you.


Not sure if it's an upgrade in clarity/separation and I definitely think the imaging is not better. It's got better bass impact and extension. That's about it IMO. 

To my ears the rest is just a slightly different sound sig but not better quality. Although that's just my opinion.

The mk2 has a slightly more energetic midrange, the sl 1.0+ has slightly better treble air and sparkle.


----------



## Themilkman46290

seanc6441 said:


> It's a single driver according to someone i asked but do the specs say dual driver??


As far as i understand  its a dual driver.


----------



## seanc6441

Themilkman46290 said:


> As far as i understand  its a dual driver.


Looking at the design thats what i thought, i was corrected by someone on earbuds anonymous group. Whether that info was good or not IDK.

The design suggests 2 drivers, but then I thought maybe its just extra cavity space for tuning.

Wish these were listed on aliexpress to buy.


----------



## Themilkman46290

seanc6441 said:


> Looking at the design thats what i thought, i was corrected by someone on earbuds anonymous group. Whether that info was good or not IDK.
> 
> The design suggests 2 drivers, but then I thought maybe its just extra cavity space for tuning.
> 
> Wish these were listed on aliexpress to buy.


Yea, either way they look really interesting, hope they come to AE


----------



## Ira Delphic (Mar 19, 2019)

How does the Willsound MKII compare with Yincrow RW-9?
Does it complement it in any way or redundant?

Listening to John Maus with LG v30 and Yincrow RW-9, Not sure if it could sound any better!


----------



## jogawag (Mar 19, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> Not sure if it's an upgrade in clarity/separation and I definitely think the imaging is not better. It's got better bass impact and extension. That's about it IMO.
> 
> To my ears the rest is just a slightly different sound sig but not better quality. Although that's just my opinion.
> 
> The mk2 has a slightly more energetic midrange, the sl 1.0+ has slightly better treble air and sparkle.



Not only you say such detailed criticism, but you should also recommend another better earbuds around $30.


----------



## seanc6441

jogawag said:


> Not only you say such detailed criticism, but you should also recommend another better earbuds around $30.


It's a great earbud I just dont want him getting unrealistic expectations 

Everyone should try the mk2 though, i always recommend it to newbies looking for a good all rounder.


----------



## DBaldock9 (Mar 19, 2019)

This morning, I've been listening to my set of Wong Kuan Wae modified Vido, connected to the iBasso PB2 (w/Sparkos SS3602 op-amps).
*EDIT*: In the PB2, there are 4x 0-Ohm Adapters installed, rather than Buffers - between the Volume Control and the SS3602 op-amps.
.
Left Case - came with PB2 (from the Left) -
Column 1 = 4x LME49710NA (1-Channel Op-Amp)
Column 2 = 4x OPA604AP (1-Channel Op-Amp)
Column 3 = 4x AD797AR (1-Channel Op-Amp / Buffer)
Column 4 = 4x BUF634P (1-Channel Buffer, Class A Bias)
Column 5 = 4x BUF634U (1-Channel Buffer)
.
Right Case - some of my Op-Amps (from the Left) -
1x Sparkos SS3602 (2-Channel Discrete Op-Amp)
2x MUSES02 (2-Channel Op-Amp)
2x OPA627AU (Dual 1-Channel Op-Amps)
2x Burson V5i-D (2-Channel Op-Amp)
2x OPA1622 (2-Channel Op-Amp)
2x LME49720HA (2-Channel Op-Amp)
3x Burson V6 Classic (2-Channel Discrete Op-Amp)
.



*EDIT: *Fixed typo on the OPA604 line.


----------



## Dabbaranks

DBaldock9 said:


> This morning, I've been listening to my set of Wong Kuan Wae modified Vido, connected to the iBasso PB2 (w/Sparkos SS3602 op-amps).
> *EDIT*: In the PB2, there are 4x 0-Ohm Adapters installed, rather than Buffers - between the Volume Control and the SS3602 op-amps.
> .
> Left Case - came with PB2 (from the Left) -
> ...



I really wanna hear some burson op-amps in the future, also those two beige looking cases look sweet!

After @HungryPanda posted the RY4Cs I grabbed a few for friends but also saw the RY4S for under 5 dollars Canadian so also grabbed a few to give out. I couldn’t resist and kept one of each for myself.

 

I’m very impressed with the cable quality and sound of both for the price. However I can’t stop listening to the RY4S, it sounds very spacious and gives me a very good idea of instrument placement, I think the mids being a bit recessed adds to this separation. The bass hits a bit harder than the RY4C and although it is less engaging and forward, it’s just a joy to listen to. If I’m not too busy listening to music with these I’ll bet they make a good gaming set too. 

My friends and family are gonna enjoy these! Thanks for the rec HP.


----------



## HungryPanda

Glad you like them, happy listening


----------



## DBaldock9

Dabbaranks said:


> I really wanna hear some burson op-amps in the future, also those two beige looking cases look sweet!
> ...



The ESD Boxes were ordered from an eBay vendor - https://www.ebay.com/itm/5PCS-4-Ele...tatic-Cases-Organizer-SMT-SMD-GL/112433099187


----------



## mbwilson111

Dabbaranks said:


> After @HungryPanda posted the RY4Cs I grabbed a few for friends but also saw the RY4S for under 5 dollars Canadian so also grabbed a few to give out. I couldn’t resist and kept one of each for myself.



It is amazing what a few dollars can get you in the bud world.

I have a little family of RY buds that live together in one case...

The RY04 is metal and has a cool looking cable.  One of the first buds I got but I might be the only one who likes it.


----------



## DynamicEars

so what is the real good value budget earbud for starter?

I just want to retry listening to earbud, I never listen to a good one sadly. Just ordered the vido, any other suggestions? i prefer balanced, with good bass but not muddy, clear and a bit forward mids, not tiring highs, great soundstage if not asking too much 

Im coming from iem, sony EX1000, EX800ST, EX600, Z5, MH750, MH755, moondrop kanas pro, tin audio T2, bqeyz, so many KZs and other budget chifi iems


----------



## root13

Haven't seen these in awhile, picked them up with the Nicehck Bro

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07L4JLLWH/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

RX-1's packaging and accessories already makes the $4 worth while.

Assuming it's an accurate listing, this is a stellar deal, will have to see in a few days.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 20, 2019)

DynamicEars said:


> so what is the real good value budget earbud for starter?
> 
> I just want to retry listening to earbud, I never listen to a good one sadly. Just ordered the vido, any other suggestions? i prefer balanced, with good bass but not muddy, clear and a bit forward mids, not tiring highs, great soundstage if not asking too much
> 
> Im coming from iem, sony EX1000, EX800ST, EX600, Z5, MH750, MH755, moondrop kanas pro, tin audio T2, bqeyz, so many KZs and other budget chifi iems



Vido is a good start but don't forget it's a $3 earbud. Bass is strong, mids and a little recessed as is parts of the treble, bit uneven FR on some units. Modest soundstage, a little hazy imaging. I'm being critical but for the price its excellent, but doesnt match some more expensive products IMO.

Other cheap but good earbuds include:

RY4S UE (average but not great staging in stock form sadly)
Yincrow RW-9 (dunno never heard it but its the newest in the yincrow line up and highly praised)
Kube (good staging, potentially amazing staging with mods)
Emx500 (Wide spacious staging, maybe the best soundstage in budget earbuds)


Next step is Willsound mk2, the best all rounder under $50? One of the best under $100. I think so anyway. Very good soundstage, very balanced. Neutral treble and punchy well extended bass. Slightly low mid dip, but middle mids are forward so vocals dont sound distant, just not overly full.


----------



## DynamicEars (Mar 20, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> Vido is a good start but don't forget it's a $3 earbud. Bass is strong, mids and a little recessed as is parts of the treble, bit uneven FR on some units. Modest soundstage, a little hazy imaging. I'm being critical but for the price its excellent, but doesnt match some more expensive products IMO.
> 
> Other cheap but good earbuds include:
> 
> ...



Thank you for being critical and honest, that is what i need buddy..

will keep an eye on those while waiting for my vido arrived! Any other suggestions will much appreciated

Edited : how about buds coming from moondrop like shiro yuki (their entry level) or nameless? And from sfr pt15 or 25? Are they good or willsound mk2 is better?


----------



## mbwilson111

root13 said:


> Haven't seen these in awhile, picked them up with the Nicehck Bro
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07L4JLLWH/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> ...



The photos certainly look like the real deal... great find.  Of course as an add on item someone cannot just buy it alone.  Be sure to keep the wooden block.  Turn it over and you will see it is a phone stand... or you can lay a pen in the groove.


----------



## snip3r77

DynamicEars said:


> Thank you for being critical and honest, that is what i need buddy..
> 
> will keep an eye on those while waiting for my vido arrived! Any other suggestions will much appreciated
> 
> Edited : how about buds coming from moondrop like shiro yuki (their entry level) or nameless? And from sfr pt15 or 25? Are they good or willsound mk2 is better?


Mk2


----------



## Bartig

Ok ok, So I'm convinced to tryout earbuds once again after the to me disappointing VE Monk Lite (too crowded in fuller songs). Is there a model I should directly remove from this short list?


----------



## exavolt

DynamicEars said:


> Thank you for being critical and honest, that is what i need buddy..
> 
> will keep an eye on those while waiting for my vido arrived! Any other suggestions will much appreciated
> 
> Edited : how about buds coming from moondrop like shiro yuki (their entry level) or nameless? And from sfr pt15 or 25? Are they good or willsound mk2 is better?


Seconding Sean, go get RY4S (or try their cheaper variant; but better avoid RY04) too. It's a bit bright, kinda MH755's bright but smoother, and has less sub-bass.

Or, just get a bunch of them. I think you can get some good buds for $50. I'd add Snow Lotus 1.0(+) too but it's a bit dark.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

seanc6441 said:


> Vido is a good start but don't forget it's a $3 earbud. Bass is strong, mids and a little recessed as is parts of the treble, bit uneven FR on some units. Modest soundstage, a little hazy imaging. I'm being critical but for the price its excellent, but doesnt match some more expensive products IMO.
> 
> Other cheap but good earbuds include:
> 
> ...


Don't forget the QianYum Qian69,


----------



## exavolt

Bartig said:


> Ok ok, So I'm convinced to tryout earbuds once again after the to me disappointing VE Monk Lite (too crowded in fuller songs). Is there a model I should directly remove from this short list?


You just need to hit the 'Buy' button  

Also, people here are generally recommending the UE-cabled RY4S (the third and fourth 'color').


----------



## DynamicEars

exavolt said:


> Seconding Sean, go get RY4S (or try their cheaper variant; but better avoid RY04) too. It's a bit bright, kinda MH755's bright but smoother, and has less sub-bass.
> 
> Or, just get a bunch of them. I think you can get some good buds for $50. I'd add Snow Lotus 1.0(+) too but it's a bit dark.



I dont want to collect many buds, just want a good 1 all arounder to play with, so maybe instead of i spend $50 for 5 buds, i rather go with 1 bud that superior to them.
Thats why i asked for recommendation from experienced users here so i dont waste time and money to try 1 by 1.

Thanks for RY4S suggestion btw


----------



## Bartig

exavolt said:


> You just need to hit the 'Buy' button
> 
> Also, people here are generally recommending the UE-cabled RY4S (the third and fourth 'color').


Ah, thanks. Shame, I love the total blue color.


----------



## exavolt

DynamicEars said:


> Thats why i asked for recommendation from experienced users here so i dont waste time and money to try 1 by 1.


I've said similar sentence before. Now I have more earbuds than in-ears...


----------



## DynamicEars

exavolt said:


> I've said similar sentence before. Now I have more earbuds than in-ears...



Lol so.. These willsound MK1 and MK2..
I like balanced signature with good vocal and soundstage, but sometimes also craving for a good textured punch bass (not edm type) my genre is jazz, pop, groove, blues, pop rock.

Should i get willsound MK1 or MK2?
Of course after a judgement with my upcoming vido, i really need to know if im going to like earbud type since I ve never got hooked into buds but i also never heard a proper good bud before (just free ones that came with samsung / sony phones, and i assume theyre bad?
Still cant think how buds can give good sub bass compared to iem..


----------



## mbwilson111 (Mar 20, 2019)

Bartig said:


> Ah, thanks. Shame, I love the total blue color.



your blue one is here


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/AK-...arbud-Metal-Earphone-Headset/32869530104.html


----------



## mbwilson111 (Mar 20, 2019)

DynamicEars said:


> Lol so.. These willsound MK1 and MK2..
> I like balanced signature with good vocal and soundstage, but sometimes also craving for a good textured punch bass (not edm type) my genre is jazz, pop, groove, blues, pop rock.
> 
> Should i get willsound MK1 or MK2?
> ...



The Vido will tell you if that shape shell is good for you.  The Willsounds use that shell and you would not want to special order one if that does not fit you.  Also, you will find that foams affect the sound.  I cannot get a good fit or good base without foams.  Depends on your ears. 

As for the ones that came with phones, some people recable them with great results.

Sub bass... you will be surprised.  Depends on how the bud is tuned.

@DynamicEars  I forgot to comment on the first part of your post.  I think our taste in music and sound signature might be similar..although to that list I would add  folk, singer songwriter, Americana, world music, and more.   My Mark1 rev.2 is great for for all of that.


----------



## waynes world

DynamicEars said:


> Lol so.. These willsound MK1 and MK2..
> I like balanced signature with good vocal and soundstage, but sometimes also craving for a good textured punch bass (not edm type) my genre is jazz, pop, groove, blues, pop rock.
> 
> Should i get willsound MK1 or MK2?
> ...



I have the MK2's and I agree that they are great. Also great are the Yincrow RW9's for $20 (I enjoy them just as much, if not more):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...at-Head-Plug-Earplugs-Earbud/32868456063.html


----------



## Dabbaranks

mbwilson111 said:


> The Vido will tell you if that shape shell is good for you.  The Willsounds use that shell and you would not want to special order one if that does not fit you.  Also, you will find that foams affect the sound.  I cannot get a good fit or good base without foams.  Depends on your ears.
> 
> As for the ones that came with phones, some people recable them with great results.
> 
> Sub bass... you will be surprised.  Depends on how the bud is tuned.



I think for willsound everything on rholuplat.com that says ready stock does not need to be “made to order” when I ordered my mk2s and they shipped the next day. I think only mmcx and or requests need to be custom order. That being said I’m still waiting for my custom order that shipped 3 weeks ago 

Also highly recommend willsound mk2 for anyone not planning on having a collection.


----------



## mbwilson111

Dabbaranks said:


> I think for willsound everything on rholuplat.com that says ready stock does not need to be “made to order” when I ordered my mk2s and they shipped the next day



I know.  I just am more nervous when I order from there and the shipping cost is high.  Also mine sat in customs forever and I was worried.

I will say that the Kubes etc that I ordered from Indonesia arrived very quickly for me in the UK... about a week...except for that one that is still missing.  My first orange Kube1.   So happy that the second one arrived safely (along with several other buds)


----------



## Dabbaranks

mbwilson111 said:


> I know.  I just am more nervous when I order from there and the shipping cost is high.  Also mine sat in customs forever and I was worried.
> 
> I will say that the Kubes etc that I ordered from Indonesia arrived very quickly for me in the UK... about a week...except for that one that is still missing.  My first orange Kube1.   So happy that the second one arrived safely (along with several other buds)



I’m suspecting the same is happening with the order I’m waiting for, I’d like to hope that other parts of the world do not experience the horrible shipping/custom check times of Canada post. I lived in Shanghai for a bit and China’s shipping services are like miles ahead of us, their regular domestic shipping is like amazon prime lol.


----------



## mbwilson111

Dabbaranks said:


> I’m suspecting the same is happening with the order I’m waiting for, I’d like to hope that other parts of the world do not experience the horrible shipping/custom check times of Canada post. I lived in Shanghai for a bit and China’s shipping services are like miles ahead of us, their regular domestic shipping is like amazon prime lol.



Our orders from Aliexpress come fairly quickly... probably average is about two weeks... varies from 6 days to 6 weeks (rare).

Amazon Prime is great.


----------



## FastAndClean

Today i decided to try the OURART on the  Melissa Menago - Little Crimes (2016) [FLAC 24] album, let me tell you something, that thing has one of the best mids that i have ever heard, the mids sound very different from normal headphone or in ear
they are like floating in the air, very hard to explain, if you are vocal lover or acoustic you cant beat that ting for the price of 59$, prove me wrong


----------



## viatraco

FastAndClean said:


> Today i decided to try the OURART on the  Melissa Menago - Little Crimes (2016) [FLAC 24] album, let me tell you something, that thing has one of the best mids that i have ever heard, the mids sound very different from normal headphone or in ear
> they are like floating in the air, very hard to explain, if you are vocal lover or acoustic you cant beat that ting for the price of 59$, prove me wrong



Do you have Ti7 or ACG ?


----------



## FastAndClean

viatraco said:


> Do you have Ti7 or ACG ?


ACG


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 20, 2019)

DynamicEars said:


> Thank you for being critical and honest, that is what i need buddy..
> 
> will keep an eye on those while waiting for my vido arrived! Any other suggestions will much appreciated
> 
> Edited : how about buds coming from moondrop like shiro yuki (their entry level) or nameless? And from sfr pt15 or 25? Are they good or willsound mk2 is better?


Pt15 has significantly less bass extension and mid bass punch. Nameless wouldn't match it either judging from the countless comparisons ive read to earbuds I own. Nameless is neutral tuned but with the typical earbud sub bass roll off.

Besides the mk2 I'm struggling to think of another budget earbud with the same bass impact, while retaining clear-balanced mids and treble.

Only through modding can you reach the level of stock mk2, and possibly surpass it.

But in that same breathe, you can mod the mk2 to remove any mid bass bloat and it becomes an absolute neutrality beast with good sub bass extension and even cleaner mids.

But enough about that, all you need to know is the stock mk2 is an earbud everyone should own. 

(I say this with no affiliation to willsound, I'm starting to sound like @chinmie now  )


----------



## seanc6441

Bartig said:


> Ok ok, So I'm convinced to tryout earbuds once again after the to me disappointing VE Monk Lite (too crowded in fuller songs). Is there a model I should directly remove from this short list?


You're not alone buddy, monk lite and zen lite sounded unimpressive to my ears.

Zen 2.0 and monk plus are better earbuds than the lite series IMO. Despite their own quirks, they have a more natural refined sound.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

waynes world said:


> I have the MK2's and I agree that they are great. Also great are the Yincrow RW9's for $20 (I enjoy them just as much, if not more):
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...at-Head-Plug-Earplugs-Earbud/32868456063.html


I have both and I prefer the sound signature of MK2 btw.


----------



## sareer007

Could anyone give impressions on willsound mk3 ?


----------



## jogawag

sareer007 said:


> Could anyone give impressions on willsound mk3 ?


https://aftersoundblog.wordpress.co...son-english-vers-mk1-mk2-mk3-mk300-pk16-pk32/


----------



## DynamicEars

seanc6441 said:


> Pt15 has significantly less bass extension and mid bass punch. Nameless wouldn't match it either judging from the countless comparisons ive read to earbuds I own. Nameless is neutral tuned but with the typical earbud sub bass roll off.
> 
> Besides the mk2 I'm struggling to think of another budget earbud with the same bass impact, while retaining clear-balanced mids and treble.
> 
> ...



lol.. thank you very much, ok then i will try that willsound mk2 after trying my vido later. Thank you for this great recommendation!



Marcos Fontana said:


> I have both and I prefer the sound signature of MK2 btw.



Nice, maybe MK2 is safest bet afterall. on my buying list. Thank you



sareer007 said:


> Could anyone give impressions on willsound mk3 ?



from what i read mk3 is the brightest among 3, its for treble /  bright signature lover.


----------



## zozito

My friends....moondrop nameles or nicehck eb2? Waiting for yincrow rw-9 to arrive.

Thank you in advance.


----------



## wskl

zozito said:


> My friends....moondrop nameles or nicehck eb2? Waiting for yincrow rw-9 to arrive.
> 
> Thank you in advance.



I don't think you can go wrong with either, they both sound good, although I did sell my Moondrop Nameless because they are a little large for my ears, whereas the EB2 is more comfortable.


----------



## nxnje

zozito said:


> My friends....moondrop nameles or nicehck eb2? Waiting for yincrow rw-9 to arrive.
> 
> Thank you in advance.



I've made a review about the NiceHCK EB2 just yesterday.
If you want just give it an eye, it can maybe help you if you're are still confused about the sound.

I do not know about the moondrop nameless, but many people say it has impactless bass and low performance on the upper mids.. but then everyone's different and i haven't tried them so you should maybe follow your heart when buying a pair of earphones you cannot try


----------



## hungphi93

I just bought **** Bk2 on Aliexpress, the sound is detailed and soundstage is wide. Quality cable, housing metal and fit my ear. Very satisfied


----------



## Degru

Just out of curiosity, what are some good sub-$50 earbuds that don't require foam covers? I like the Earpods for that; if they get earwax or something on them I can just wipe it off and not have to bother with replacing foams, plus they fit more easily. But all of the good earbuds I've seen recommended need foam covers or they sound too thin, if I'm not mistaken.


----------



## zozito (Mar 21, 2019)

wskl said:


> I don't think you can go wrong with either, they both sound good, although I did sell my Moondrop Nameless because they are a little large for my ears, whereas the EB2 is more comfortable.


Mistake, sorry.


----------



## zozito

nxnje said:


> I've made a review about the NiceHCK EB2 just yesterday.
> If you want just give it an eye, it can maybe help you if you're are still confused about the sound.
> 
> I do not know about the moondrop nameless, but many people say it has impactless bass and low performance on the upper mids.. but then everyone's different and i haven't tried them so you should maybe follow your heart when buying a pair of earphones you cannot try


Thank you, mates.


----------



## mbwilson111

zozito said:


> My friends....moondrop nameles or nicehck eb2? Waiting for yincrow rw-9 to arrive.
> 
> Thank you in advance.





wskl said:


> I don't think you can go wrong with either, they both sound good, although I did sell my Moondrop Nameless because they are a little large for my ears, whereas the EB2 is more comfortable.



I also no longer have the Moondrop Nameless because of fit issues.  I love the fit and the sound of the EB2.  Very happy with it.



Degru said:


> Just out of curiosity, what are some good sub-$50 earbuds that don't require foam covers? I like the Earpods for that; if they get earwax or something on them I can just wipe it off and not have to bother with replacing foams, plus they fit more easily. But all of the good earbuds I've seen recommended need foam covers or they sound too thin, if I'm not mistaken.



I have the Memt T5 earpod and I love it... sounds great to me... no foams.


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...-Ear-Headset-Dynamic-Earbuds/32925960251.html


----------



## viatraco

hungphi93 said:


> I just bought **** Bk2 on Aliexpress, the sound is detailed and soundstage is wide. Quality cable, housing metal and fit my ear. Very satisfied


I had BK2 and do not recommend. Build quality is good but in therms of SQ are overpriced. Shouty and fatiguing.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 21, 2019)

Degru said:


> Just out of curiosity, what are some good sub-$50 earbuds that don't require foam covers? I like the Earpods for that; if they get earwax or something on them I can just wipe it off and not have to bother with replacing foams, plus they fit more easily. But all of the good earbuds I've seen recommended need foam covers or they sound too thin, if I'm not mistaken.



Kube v2/ek2 maybe

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2615#post-14727108

Kube v1 modded is like the VE zen 2.0 with more clarity and balance. I'm using it without foams or with very thin foama during tests and it's awesome.

The V2/ek2 is warmer-darker slightly in stock form in the presence region. It may sound good foamless without any harsh lower treble.

I mention the VE zen 2.0 because its the most popular  earbud to wear foamless. Which it was designed for.

Although


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> The V2/ek2 is warmer-darker slightly in stock form. It may sound good foamless.



I could check that out... I have not yet put foams on my backup pair of Kube2.  I should make sure they work anyway... lol.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> I could check that out... I have not yet put foams on my backup pair of Kube2.  I should make sure they work anyway... lol.


Only thing is the kube venting is on the back not behind the foams like on mx500 shells, so you won't get that boost of the low end - warmth you get from removing foams from mx500 earbuds.

But can't hurt to try!


----------



## DynamicEars

mbwilson111 said:


> I also no longer have the Moondrop Nameless because of fit issues.  I love the fit and the sound of the EB2.  Very happy with it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



how is EB2 compared to willsound Mk1 or MK2?


----------



## abladabla

Hi, so I'm in a need of another kind of recommendation. I'm looking for cheap earbuds not based on sound but comfort. What I want is good earbuds to sleep in. They would play audiobooks, some asmr and light, relaxing music. Obviously I wouldn't want some crappy sound quality, but that's not the most important thing, as I have other headphones for music listening. 
Finding good cheap earbuds wouldn't really be a problem, but since most of them use that MX500 shell, it is. They are a little too bulky and when laying on my side ears start hurting a little. I used AuGlamour RX-1 and they were great, but the cable in them is so flimsy, they broke twice.
Would anyone have any recommendations? Thanks.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Mar 22, 2019)

Bad Info here. Deleted. EBX at $70 is still a good price though. 

Almost want to buy another one at that price but I don't want to sleep on the sofa...

Hmm.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 21, 2019)

abladabla said:


> Hi, so I'm in a need of another kind of recommendation. I'm looking for cheap earbuds not based on sound but comfort. What I want is good earbuds to sleep in. They would play audiobooks, some asmr and light, relaxing music. Obviously I wouldn't want some crappy sound quality, but that's not the most important thing, as I have other headphones for music listening.
> Finding good cheap earbuds wouldn't really be a problem, but since most of them use that MX500 shell, it is. They are a little too bulky and when laying on my side ears start hurting a little. I used AuGlamour RX-1 and they were great, but the cable in them is so flimsy, they broke twice.
> Would anyone have any recommendations? Thanks.


My personal favorite for comfort is pk shell earbuds. IMO the RX1 is still too large depth wise for perfect comfort.

Pk or Qian/monk lite type shell comes the closest to perfect comfort.

Actually apple earpods are really comfortable too for that use, did you consider just buying some earpods? Although I know some don't find them as comfortable as others...

Anyway try the diy pk2 sr2 on aliexpress from chittys store. @jogawag may get you a link to the best version (one vent or two). My aliexpress links never work for people.


Although i gotta say. The rx1 had a sturdy cable and Jack. Where on the cable did it break on you exactly?


----------



## kurtextrem

Can someone please compare the Moondrop Liebesleid with e.g. EBX, TO600 or OURART ACG? Much appreciated and asking just in case I might want to buy another earbud in the sale.


----------



## activatorfly

kurtextrem said:


> Can someone please compare the Moondrop Liebesleid with e.g. EBX, TO600 or OURART ACG? Much appreciated and asking just in case I might want to buy another earbud in the sale.


I'm leaning towards the ACG also!


----------



## hungphi93

viatraco said:


> I had BK2 and do not recommend. Build quality is good but in therms of SQ are overpriced. Shouty and fatiguing.


Hi, what is your music genre and DAP/DAC? I think BK2 is best for instrumental music.


----------



## hungphi93

Did anyone use the BGVP DX3s? I intend to buy it on Aliexpress $35, does it worth?


----------



## abladabla

seanc6441 said:


> My personal favorite for comfort is pk shell earbuds. IMO the RX1 is still too large depth wise for perfect comfort.
> 
> Pk or Qian/monk lite type shell comes the closest to perfect comfort.
> 
> ...



Never had any apple product in my ears, so it never even crossed my mind. The first thing that come to mind with Apple is overpriced for what it's worth.
I will check out those other earphones you listed.
RX1 cable broke where it touches the headphones. I'm assuming it's because the shell is metal and since I was laying my head on them a lot and maybe moving while asleep it was too much for them


----------



## activatorfly

I know it's not an earbud - but imo the best thing about Tenhz P4 Pro??.....the case....haha!


----------



## exavolt (Mar 21, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Just browsing anniversary sale and noticed EBX was going to be $48 before coupons.  I gotta say TOTL earpuds under $50 is kind of a no brainer. Possible to get under $40 with coupons. That means buy the cable,(which is worth that) and  get free EBX.
> 
> Almost want to buy another one at that price but I don't want to sleep on the sofa...
> 
> Hmm.


EBX for <$80 is worth a shot. Though not sure if it's worth for sleeping on the sofa...



kurtextrem said:


> Can someone please compare the Moondrop Liebesleid with e.g. EBX, TO600 or OURART ACG? Much appreciated and asking just in case I might want to buy another earbud in the sale.


I'll try to answer about EBX vs ACG. EBX is the safest bet. ACG is better on the clarity and imaging, but it's bright and bass is rolled-off (or, no decay). EBX has nothing outstanding but instead, more balanced overall. It's very musical; you can throw anything to them and they'll just present the music without trying to be artificial. ACG on other hand really shines for jazz, bossanova, live acoustics for its details and impressive imaging; look at other options if you want to listen to metal, hard rock or edm.

edit: should be addressed to activatorfly instead. i am curious about Leibesleid vs EBX or ACG too.


----------



## activatorfly

exavolt said:


> EBX for <$80 is worth a shot. Though not sure if it's worth for sleeping on the sofa...
> 
> 
> I'll try to answer about EBX vs ACG. EBX is the safest bet. ACG is better on the clarity and imaging, but it's bright and bass is rolled-off (or, no decay). EBX has nothing outstanding but instead, more balanced overall. It's very musical; you can throw anything to them and they'll just present the music without trying to be artificial. ACG on other hand really shines for jazz, bossanova, live acoustics for its details and impressive imaging; look at other options if you want to listen to metal, hard rock or edm.


Thanks!...just decided against ACG....lolol!


----------



## exavolt

I am curious at Smabat ST-10. AE anniversary sale is about to start but no sellers selling the ST-10 there. I noticed that they were sold at something like $78 before but now they are nowhere to be found.


----------



## jogawag (Mar 21, 2019)

abladabla said:


> Hi, so I'm in a need of another kind of recommendation. I'm looking for cheap earbuds not based on sound but comfort. What I want is good earbuds to sleep in. They would play audiobooks, some asmr and light, relaxing music. Obviously I wouldn't want some crappy sound quality, but that's not the most important thing, as I have other headphones for music listening.
> Finding good cheap earbuds wouldn't really be a problem, but since most of them use that MX500 shell, it is. They are a little too bulky and when laying on my side ears start hurting a little. I used AuGlamour RX-1 and they were great, but the cable in them is so flimsy, they broke twice.
> Would anyone have any recommendations? Thanks.





seanc6441 said:


> My personal favorite for comfort is pk shell earbuds. IMO the RX1 is still too large depth wise for perfect comfort.
> 
> Pk or Qian/monk lite type shell comes the closest to perfect comfort.
> 
> ...



I recommend PK2s Panda for you instead of diy sr2, because I think diy sr2 sounds too clear for sleeping.
This link is PK2s Panda.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32907407670.html


----------



## DBaldock9

BadReligionPunk said:


> Just browsing anniversary sale and noticed EBX was going to be $48 before coupons.  I gotta say TOTL earpuds under $50 is kind of a no brainer. Possible to get under $40 with coupons. That means buy the cable,(which is worth that) and  get free EBX.
> 
> Almost want to buy another one at that price but I don't want to sleep on the sofa...
> 
> Hmm.



Well, the EBX was $98 when I bought them last year, and I think they sound pretty good.
Comparing the $98 HiceHCK EBX, and the $50 Svara-L (32Ω) - The EBX may have a bit more low Bass, but the Svara-L fits my ears more comfortably, so their Bass actually sounds better to me.

*Unfortunately, the Svara-L doesn't appear to be available any longer* (doing a Google Search finds vendors showing "No Longer Available", or showing the Svara IEM).


----------



## DBaldock9

exavolt said:


> I am curious at Smabat ST-10. AE anniversary sale is about to start but no sellers selling the ST-10 there. I noticed that they were sold at something like $78 before but now they are nowhere to be found.



I did send a message to AVCCK Earphone Store, asking if the ST-10 was going to be back in stock.
They replied, with a link to the Korean language version of AliExpress - but I think even this page says that the ST-10 is "_No Longer Available_".
https://ko.aliexpress.com/store/pro...d-Earphone-With-MMCX/2847025_32810127070.html


----------



## mbwilson111

DBaldock9 said:


> I did send a message to AVCCK Earphone Store, asking if the ST-10 was going to be back in stock.
> They replied, with a link to the Korean language version of AliExpress - but I think even this page says that the ST-10 is "_No Longer Available_".
> 
> https://ko.aliexpress.com/store/pro...d-Earphone-With-MMCX/2847025_32810127070.html



How weird.. that link took me to the TONEKING TO180.

I was intrigued by the ST-10 but it disappeared almost as soon as I found out about it.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Mar 21, 2019)

DBaldock9 said:


> Well, the EBX was $98 when I bought them last year, and I think they sound pretty good.
> Comparing the $98 HiceHCK EBX, and the $50 Svara-L (32Ω) - The EBX may have a bit more low Bass, but the Svara-L fits my ears more comfortably, so their Bass actually sounds better to me.
> 
> *Unfortunately, the Svara-L doesn't appear to be available any longer* (doing a Google Search finds vendors showing "No Longer Available", or showing the Svara IEM).


They were in my cart but have since dissappeared. Very sad.

Also. I mucked around a long time to find the perfect foams to get the EBX to fit me without feeling like they were going to fall out.  I even double donuted which is like silly hard. Eventually ordered Heigi donuts,  and so far am having a great time.


----------



## HungryPanda

hungphi93 said:


> Did anyone use the BGVP DX3s? I intend to buy it on Aliexpress $35, does it worth?


I have them and they are very nice and that is a good price. Aliexpress has a sale in 7 days and with store coupon you may get it cheaper


----------



## viatraco

hungphi93 said:


> Hi, what is your music genre and DAP/DAC? I think BK2 is best for instrumental music.



Instrumental, acoustic guitars and female voices, jazz, orchestra, soundtracks.
DAC SMSL M2 and Earstudio ES100.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 21, 2019)

abladabla said:


> Never had any apple product in my ears, so it never even crossed my mind. The first thing that come to mind with Apple is overpriced for what it's worth.
> I will check out those other earphones you listed.
> RX1 cable broke where it touches the headphones. I'm assuming it's because the shell is metal and since I was laying my head on them a lot and maybe moving while asleep it was too much for them


Yeah try the pk2 sr2 (or panda pk2 as i see jogawag just recommended that as it's smoother overall both in sound and the shell cover) as it's a cheap pk earbud that sounds good.

Using foams on a sleeper bud has it's pros and cons. On one hand the foams make it more comfy, but they also make it a bigger fit with isn't ideal. If you go with the pk2 it needs foams to sound smooth-full.

Only earbud that sounds balanced foamless in a small shell is Zen lite. But it's pricey.


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> Well, the EBX was $98 when I bought them last year, and I think they sound pretty good.
> Comparing the $98 HiceHCK EBX, and the $50 Svara-L (32Ω) - The EBX may have a bit more low Bass, but the Svara-L fits my ears more comfortably, so their Bass actually sounds better to me.
> 
> *Unfortunately, the Svara-L doesn't appear to be available any longer* (doing a Google Search finds vendors showing "No Longer Available", or showing the Svara IEM).



To anyone looking for the Svara L 32ohms, I'll part with my pair for $250.

Just kidding - no way I'll part with them! 

What a drag that it looks like they're not going to be sold any longer. Maybe the ST10 is a worthy upgrade, but it's double the price


----------



## coolice

BadReligionPunk said:


> Just browsing anniversary sale and noticed EBX was going to be $48 before coupons.  I gotta say TOTL earpuds under $50 is kind of a no brainer. Possible to get under $40 with coupons. That means buy the cable,(which is worth that) and  get free EBX.
> 
> Almost want to buy another one at that price but I don't want to sleep on the sofa...
> 
> Hmm.


mind sharing the link?
lowest i could find is $71  and $49 for cable


----------



## DynamicEars

Is the EBX one of TOTL earbuds? how is the sub bass and mid bass? is it light or mild? can they punch? i came from iem worlds
and how is it compared to willsound earbuds? is it big different?

If differences are subtle i might just go for EBX and settle down, not going to buy so many earbuds.

and 1 dumb question, how is the correct way to wear earbuds? i mean are they suppose to be just "sitting down" on ear not blocking / sealing your ear canals or is it supposed to seal it? I always feel it wrong like the buds just hanging around without proper seal and my mind always playing with me "its gonna fall down after this, yeah, in 3..2..." but actually they're not falling down.

Thanks in advance


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Mar 22, 2019)

coolice said:


> mind sharing the link?
> lowest i could find is $71  and $49 for cable



Sale isn't started yet. Anyway. NiceHCK shop on AliExpress and am using the mobile app. It shows that the sale price will be $48.46. Sale starts next week.

EDIT
The actual price is $75.13. $48.46 is for the cable. Sorry for misleading


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 21, 2019)

DynamicEars said:


> Is the EBX one of TOTL earbuds? how is the sub bass and mid bass? is it light or mild? can they punch? i came from iem worlds
> and how is it compared to willsound earbuds? is it big different?
> 
> If differences are subtle i might just go for EBX and settle down, not going to buy so many earbuds.
> ...


They don't seal, you wear them down with/without foams depending on your preference.

That's what gives them their open sound, but it's also why they have more sub bass roll off. Using foams does reduce the openess slightly, while it also increases the seal for deeper bass and slightly reduces treble.

Some designs allow for wearing looped around the ear like many iems, but most earbuds just sit in the outer ear.

If you were to properly seal an earbud somehow, you'd probably be overwhelmed by bass to extreme levels. Since these drivers are tuned for open listening and are bigger than most dynamic driver IEMs.


----------



## exavolt (Mar 21, 2019)

DynamicEars said:


> Is the EBX one of TOTL earbuds? how is the sub bass and mid bass? is it light or mild? can they punch? i came from iem worlds
> and how is it compared to willsound earbuds? is it big different?
> 
> If differences are subtle i might just go for EBX and settle down, not going to buy so many earbuds.
> ...


I'd say TOTL according to the maker; it's their flagship. It does a lot of things right, and did nothing wrong (except probably the housing might not for everyone although it's one of the main selling points for me for not using MX / PK shells). If compared to IEMs, I'd put it between Tin Audio T2 and Kanas, slightly to the Kanas side for overall. Soundstage is definitely better on the EBX, wide and natural. Imaging is better on Kanas. I have a set of MK2 rev2, so I could compare them later at home.

There's no correct way, if there's one, I won't care. For some buds, I padded them with rubber rings and foams so they'll sit tight and seal the canals as long it doesn't make the bass overwhelming; so, yeah, kinda IEM-like. Other buds, like PK16, I just applied rubber rings to give a little padding and use them without foams; I like them open as they still sound good even in noisy environment (the bass already rolled-off anyway). Experiment with how to wear them to match your preference.


----------



## DynamicEars

seanc6441 said:


> They don't seal, you wear them down with/without foams depending on your preference.
> 
> That's what gives them their open sound, but it's also why they have more sub bass roll off. Using foams does reduce the openess slightly, while it also increases the seal for deeper bass and slightly reduces treble.
> 
> ...



Thank you for answering this silly question. Because i only experienced with low quality earbud, I never like earbud because so light and bright not warm at all, no bass. My vido just came in, its opening my heart again to retry earbud world. I already more or less satisfied in iem with Kanas Pro as daily driver and EX1000 inside my audio cupboard, to go further i will hesitate to break much more money to spend with. Soundstage on earbuds are effortless, while in iem world, its something technical that hard to achieve. And i guess for price/performance ratio earbud is better value.
do you have EBX with you? 



exavolt said:


> I'd say TOTL according to the maker; it's their flagship. It does a lot of things right, and did nothing wrong (except probably the housing might not for everyone although it's one of the main selling points for me for not using MX / PK shells). If compared to IEMs, I'd put it between Tin Audio T2 and Kanas, slightly to the Kanas side for overall. Soundstage is definitely better on the EBX, wide and natural. Imaging is better on Kanas. I have a set of MK2 rev2, so I could compare them later at home.
> 
> There's no correct way, if there's one, I won't care. For some buds, I padded them with rubber rings and foams so they'll sit tight and seal the canals as long it doesn't make the bass overwhelming; so, yeah, kinda IEM-like. Other buds, like PK16, I just applied rubber rings to give a little padding and use them without foams; I like them open as they still sound good even in noisy environment (the bass already rolled-off anyway). Experiment with how to wear them to match your preference.



So the EBX is considered a TOTL earbuds? i mean go for Liebesleid is too much for me for the price, but i dont want to go half way, i just need 1 very good capable earbud and settle. Don't want to repeat long journey with iem, bought so many budget iem that in the end they just stay in my audio cupboard. 
Wow nice oneee i got T2 and Kanas Pro as well and your description is really made me got how it sounds like! I think im gonna like it. How is the bass i just scared the sub bass and mid bass are too light on EBX.  Gonna waiting your comparison for EBX and willsoung mk2, Thanks in advance buddy, appreciate this for helping me.

So you cover the earbud with foams, and then padded them with rubber ring? Sure i will try around, just need to now basic way to wear an earbud, sounds very silly for me. So its just meant to be hang on ear with air still going through from the gap.


Thank you for the reply guys


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 21, 2019)

DynamicEars said:


> Thank you for answering this silly question. Because i only experienced with low quality earbud, I never like earbud because so light and bright not warm at all, no bass. My vido just came in, its opening my heart again to retry earbud world. I already more or less satisfied in iem with Kanas Pro as daily driver and EX1000 inside my audio cupboard, to go further i will hesitate to break much more money to spend with. Soundstage on earbuds are effortless, while in iem world, its something technical that hard to achieve. And i guess for price/performance ratio earbud is better value.
> do you have EBX with you?
> 
> 
> ...


I usually don't use the rings just foams or foamless depending on the earbud.

Of course there are a wide variety of foam types. I even use a leather punch to make custom multi hole foams which allow lessen the treble dampening but still has the bass bump. Good for earbuds that sound too dark with full foams.

Thin foams are a nice middle ground between foamless and full foams too. But like headphones and the wide variety of pads available, each earbud responds well to different foams. It's a nice easy way to tune the sound to your liking too.

I don't have the ebx sorry. You'll have to wait for other peoples input on that one.


----------



## zozito

BadReligionPunk said:


> Sale isn't started yet. Anyway. NiceHCK shop on AliExpress and am using the mobile app. It shows that the sale price will be $48.46. Sale starts next week.


That's the price for just the cable, as the mate said.


----------



## snip3r77

BadReligionPunk said:


> Sale isn't started yet. Anyway. NiceHCK shop on AliExpress and am using the mobile app. It shows that the sale price will be $48.46. Sale starts next week.


When does sales start ??


----------



## DBaldock9

snip3r77 said:


> When does sales start ??



If you go to the NiceHCK EBX page (or probably nearly any other page) on the AliExpress website, you'll see a banner that says it starts 6 days from today.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NIC...NICEHCK-Flagship-Earbud-With/32839701923.html


----------



## CasstardPie

Nicehck is doing the smabat st10 at a preorder price of 84usd! @ClieOS if I recall correctly you had a pair, would you reccomend buying it?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

zozito said:


> That's the price for just the cable, as the mate said.


Well Crap! Got ahead of myself there and didn't actually think they were selling the cable. Ok So I am a maroon and will go back and edit my previous post.

Yea. I see they are $75.13 + -$3 Nicehck coupon+ -$2 AE coupon. Should be able to get them for at least $70.13.

Sorry guys.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

snip3r77 said:


> When does sales start ??


28th


----------



## ClieOS

CasstardPie said:


> Nicehck is doing the smabat st10 at a preorder price of 84usd! @ClieOS if I recall correctly you had a pair, would you reccomend buying it?



$84 is a great deal. I have no hesitation to recommend it even at its full price at $119.


----------



## exavolt (Mar 22, 2019)

DynamicEars said:


> Wow nice oneee i got T2 and Kanas Pro as well and your description is really made me got how it sounds like! I think im gonna like it. How is the bass i just scared the sub bass and mid bass are too light on EBX.  Gonna waiting your comparison for EBX and willsoung mk2, Thanks in advance buddy, appreciate this for helping me.


Just listened to MK2 Rev2. Overall, it's warm with slight bass bump and bit of bleeds (nicely textured bass btw). As your concern is mid bass and sub bass, EBX's mid bass is just enough for neutralish signature, but the sub bass failed the Sk8er Boi test to me; it's there but doesn't have enough power ('light') even with better seal. So, if you want the one with signature closer to the T2 or Kanas (mine is the regular one fyi), get the EBX, but if you want your sub-bass and don't mind with some general bass boost, go with the MK2.


----------



## exavolt

CasstardPie said:


> Nicehck is doing the smabat st10 at a preorder price of 84usd! @ClieOS if I recall correctly you had a pair, would you reccomend buying it?


I can't see the preorder. All I see is fixed price at $132.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

CasstardPie said:


> Nicehck is doing the smabat st10 at a preorder price of 84usd! @ClieOS if I recall correctly you had a pair, would you reccomend buying it?


Could you share the link? I found it only for $132 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Sma...lgo_pvid=0748bebf-bf25-40d4-9975-f1b267612857


----------



## CasstardPie

As with other preorder/discount stuff, you will need to order, but dont pay, then PM him on fb with the order number for the price adjustment 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=919951465062806&id=100011438846290

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ml?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.1.5674e573NuWJlw


----------



## mbwilson111

CasstardPie said:


> As with other preorder/discount stuff, you will need to order, but dont pay, then PM him on fb with the order number for the price adjustment
> 
> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=919951465062806&id=100011438846290
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ml?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.1.5674e573NuWJlw



The price should automatically adjust when the sale starts in six days so just wait.


----------



## exavolt

I don't need another pair of earbuds.



... there goes my $84...


----------



## DynamicEars

exavolt said:


> Just listened to MK2 Rev2. Overall, it's warm with slight bass bump and bit of bleeds (nicely textured bass btw). As your concern is mid bass and sub bass, EBX's mid bass is just enough for neutralish signature, but the sub bass failed the Sk8er Boi test to me; it's there but doesn't have enough power ('light') even with better seal. So, if you want the one with signature closer to the T2 or Kanas (mine is the regular one fyi), get the EBX, but if you want your sub-bass and don't mind with some general bass boost, go with the MK2.



Thanks for this.. or maybe i just try with willsound mk2 first since its cheaper. Is mid on MK2 clear? 

how about Willsound MK2 vs NiceHCK EB2?


----------



## Ira Delphic

DynamicEars said:


> Thanks for this.. or maybe i just try with willsound mk2 first since its cheaper. Is mid on MK2 clear?
> 
> how about Willsound MK2 vs NiceHCK EB2?



Or for half the price of the MK2 consider the Yincrow RW-9. It's pretty amazing at any price! It's my daily driver (got two of them) and an excellent all 'rounder. No need to change earbuds as I move between music genres.


----------



## RobinFood (Mar 22, 2019)

@DynamicEars
Get the MKII! It really is amazing, it's saved me from a lot of impulse buys...everytime I want a new bud I listen to the MKII on the Es100. Mids are clear, just a little recessed.


----------



## rahmish

DynamicEars said:


> Thanks for this.. or maybe i just try with willsound mk2 first since its cheaper. Is mid on MK2 clear?
> 
> how about Willsound MK2 vs NiceHCK EB2?


Mk2 is much better IMO!


----------



## activatorfly (Mar 22, 2019)

The "red mist" PT25 & EP35 have gatecrashed the Kubist Friday night party! lol


----------



## DynamicEars (Mar 22, 2019)

Ira Delphic said:


> Or for half the price of the MK2 consider the Yincrow RW-9. It's pretty amazing at any price! It's my daily driver (got two of them) and an excellent all 'rounder. No need to change earbuds as I move between music genres.



Thanks for your suggestions, i dont mind the price of MK2 if i can get it better, i dont want to collect many buds, just 1 or 2 decent one, so i can chip in $50 or stretch until $100 max, but wanna get the best / performance ratio. Anyway thanks for that!



RobinFood said:


> @DynamicEars
> Get the MKII! It really is amazing, it's saved me from a lot of impulse buys...everytime I want a new bud I listen to the MKII on the Es100. Mids are clear, just a little recessed.



wow another one for MK2, great thank you



rahmish said:


> Mk2 is much better IMO!



do you have both? so MK2 really much better than EB2? how about their mids? clarity? Thanks!
*edit just saw your profile you own both! and nice collection! any other suggestion or MK2 is good enough?


----------



## Themilkman46290

Hey can you guys tell me what your impressions are on the "pink myst" PT25 buds, i am curious about the shape, never tried that style


----------



## activatorfly

Themilkman46290 said:


> Hey can you guys tell me what your impressions are on the "pink myst" PT25 buds, i am curious about the shape, never tried that style


 "Red mist" - I just re-visited them today...the earpod shape is cool as they stay in your ears whilst mobile & I do still kinda like them - they were reviewed quite favourably.


----------



## Themilkman46290

You wouldnt happen to have a link to that wou you?


----------



## rahmish

DynamicEars said:


> Thanks for your suggestions, i dont mind the price of MK2 if i can get it better, i dont want to collect many buds, just 1 or 2 decent one, so i can chip in $50 or stretch until $100 max, but wanna get the best / performance ratio. Anyway thanks for that!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, I have both, mk2 wins in almost all aspects, eb2 sounds a bit clearer IMO, to be honest I prefer Mk1, one of my favorites


----------



## activatorfly

Themilkman46290 said:


> You wouldnt happen to have a link to that wou you?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2387#post-14508084


----------



## Zerohour88

ClieOS said:


> $84 is a great deal. I have no hesitation to recommend it even at its full price at $119.



would the ST-10 be redundant if I already have the EBX? since you mentioned the ST-10 being midway from TOTL to 2nd tier.


----------



## ClieOS

Zerohour88 said:


> would the ST-10 be redundant if I already have the EBX? since you mentioned the ST-10 being midway from TOTL to 2nd tier.



ST-10 will be more neutral tonally than EBX, but if you are looking for a very noticeable upgrade in SQ, I don't think you will find it on ST-10. Perosnally however, I'll rank ST-10 a little higher than EBX.


----------



## ClieOS

ZEVA The Dragon 2.0M Standard
DIY iBud with AKG Prototype driver (see this for detail)
ZEVA Lord.E (东皇) - this is actually the same earbuds as the DonHuang / East Emperor I posted a few months ago, but I sent it back for a slight retune.
Sony STH40D


----------



## waynes world (Mar 22, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> of all of that list I would pick up the K's 64 every time,it just sounds so good





golov17 said:


> Not bad ... K's 64





Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> So I've given the K's 64 and the RW-9s a listen.  They are both great!  lol...I'm losing track of my earbud hierarchy!  They both have a nice full, rich sound quality.  The K's seem to have a bit of reverb that makes piano and organ sound really great.



I can always count on you kids!

I love it when I get a new cheapo bud delivered to me, don't bother with any burn in, don't bother with any foams, throw them in my ears, throw on some good tunes, and immediately am impressed with what I'm hearing.

The K's 64's are great!

Kudos to all involved 

Edit: this is what I'm listening to. Dave Mathews rocks..


----------



## mbwilson111

rahmish said:


> prefer Mk1, one of my favorites




The MK1 rev2 is also one. of my favorites. I don't have the MK2 but I have listened to my husband's a couple of times.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 22, 2019)

@ClieOS

How is the ST-10 in the bass department. Does it reach deep and does it have impact/punch?

You liked the K's LBB and I agree that it has excellent qualities in the mids and treble for that price range, but the bass was just disappointing for me. Especially for a K's product. Wondering if the ST-10 has more presence than the LBB and if it can come close to the Willsound MK2 (slightly less is ok since that's got powerful bass).


----------



## hungphi93

HungryPanda said:


> I have them and they are very nice and that is a good price. Aliexpress has a sale in 7 days and with store coupon you may get it cheaper


Thank you! I marked the Earbud without cable just only $12 after the sale. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/BGV...pm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.267.409f3c00YRi7cr


----------



## hungphi93

DBaldock9 said:


> If you go to the NiceHCK EBX page (or probably nearly any other page) on the AliExpress website, you'll see a banner that says it starts 6 days from today.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NIC...NICEHCK-Flagship-Earbud-With/32839701923.html


Does anyone realize that the Aliexpress pushed up the price and then starting the sale?


----------



## seanc6441

hungphi93 said:


> Does anyone realize that the Aliexpress pushed up the price and then starting the sale?


Aliexpress don't, some sellers do.

Some are authentic deals and some are deceptive. That's why you should use a price checker to see price history. Google search for one, it helps to make informed purchases during the sale.


----------



## Zerohour88

ClieOS said:


> ST-10 will be more neutral tonally than EBX, but if you are looking for a very noticeable upgrade in SQ, I don't think you will find it on ST-10. Perosnally however, I'll rank ST-10 a little higher than EBX.



my wallet thanks you for that, lol.

was thinking about it since there's the nicehck discount for it (from EA fb page) plus the ali voucher. Recently dropped my EBX and the shell came off, so looking for an excuse to upgrade. Gonna just glue it back on and wait for a more significant model release.


----------



## Makahl

ClieOS said:


> Those who have Edimun V3 might have noticed that it comes with customized red foam with 4 smaller holes. That gives it more or less a donut foam quality (that won't over-dampen treble) but without the downside of a looser fit which tends to make dunut foam falls out easily. While donut foam can be a life saver for certain earbuds from time to time, it isn't particularly suitable for MX500 style front cover (VE's, BugGuy's, etc) as this kind of cover don't have any sound vents near the center, but located closer to the outer edge - so they still get somewhat over dampened even with donut foam. Inspired by the Edimun V3 foam pad, I did some modification of my own to create the multi-holes foam pad that will work better with MX500 style earbuds. The holes are located closer to the edge and thus will expose some sound vents for more treble. It also has the upside of getting a tighter fit than donut foam. I won't say it is the perfect solution for every earbuds, but it does work better than donut foam on many occasion.
> 
> 
> Get yourself a leather belt hole puncher and punch the foam away - you won't actually punch a hole with the puncher, but it will leave a mark on the foam that you can tear away with your fingers easily. Push the foam slightly inward when punching and the hole will be closer to the edge - but don't get too close to the edge though, as you will want to leave around 3~4mm of space.
> ...



This post is really good. This foam mod made my custom vido sounds meh to "oh it's good". Thanks!


----------



## exavolt (Mar 22, 2019)

DynamicEars said:


> Thanks for this.. or maybe i just try with willsound mk2 first since its cheaper. Is mid on MK2 clear?
> 
> how about Willsound MK2 vs NiceHCK EB2?


Mid is relatively clear but laid back. Personally I feel that the mids are dominated by the bass on some tracks, but my preference is neutralish-bright.

EB2 overall is very similar to the EBX. It has less refined tuning and has noticable dip in the mids. Sub bass is also light.


----------



## exavolt (Mar 22, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> The price should automatically adjust when the sale starts in six days so just wait.


I think this one is unlike the previous sale pre-order (i.e., 11.11 sale). This one is off-system pre-order for gathering some hype, coincidence with the anniversary sale. The $132 price tag is most likely the marked-up price with the normal price I would expect somewhere between $84 and $132. For $84, it is still more expensive than AVCCK's lowest, but their's are now gone.

In case anyone else interested, use the usual trick to get price adjusted. Just mention you've got the info from this thread. Edit: I suggest not to apply any coupons as they won't affect the final price.


----------



## HungryPanda

This is a great sale price if you can wait 6 days

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/BGV...ement-Earbuds-for-Audiophile/32979517216.html


----------



## waynes world (Mar 22, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> This is a great sale price if you can wait 6 days
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/BGV...ement-Earbuds-for-Audiophile/32979517216.html



Thanks. Sigh!

Some impressions:


Spoiler








Looking for more.


----------



## exavolt

ClieOS said:


> ZEVA The Dragon 2.0M Standard
> DIY iBud with AKG Prototype driver (see this for detail)
> ZEVA Lord.E (东皇) - this is actually the same earbuds as the DonHuang / East Emperor I posted a few months ago, but I sent it back for a slight retune.
> Sony STH40D


How's that Sony? Is the concept working? I assume that the bass is rolled-off to the point of no sub-bass.


----------



## activatorfly

HungryPanda said:


> This is a great sale price if you can wait 6 days


Cheaper here...

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/BGV...f9931832889f5d28e&onelink_page_to=ITEM_DETAIL


----------



## Marcos Fontana

waynes world said:


> Thanks. Sigh!
> 
> Some impressions:
> 
> ...



But the reviews are not so good:

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/bgvp-dx3s-earbuds/reviews#reviews

I will pass this one.


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> @ClieOS
> 
> How is the ST-10 in the bass department. Does it reach deep and does it have impact/punch?
> 
> You liked the K's LBB and I agree that it has excellent qualities in the mids and treble for that price range, but the bass was just disappointing for me. Especially for a K's product. Wondering if the ST-10 has more presence than the LBB and if it can come close to the Willsound MK2 (slightly less is ok since that's got powerful bass).



Note that LBB or the Titanium Bell series are meant to be used with normal (non-thin) foam pad as they are tuned with foam in mind (*the maker even suggest double foam for those really want to get a solid low end). But you are right, they are not as bass-happy as their older siblings. ST-10's bass on the other hand is fairly neutral in quantity, but reaches down really deep. It has some of the cleanest deep bass I have ever heard on any earbuds, but it won't make any bass head smile as it is not really bass banging type of situation.




exavolt said:


> How's that Sony? Is the concept working? I assume that the bass is rolled-off to the point of no sub-bass.



This STH40D is actually quite decent overall. The fit is nice as it almost 'disappear' once you put it on and the SQ is decent enough for daily use, more of a lower-mid to mid-tier overall. For the main purpose of able to listen to the surrounding and music at the same time, I'll call this a win. This is far better than Ambie's (which is also a Sony spin-off) design on both ergonomics and SQ.


----------



## hungphi93

HungryPanda said:


> This is a great sale price if you can wait 6 days
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/BGV...ement-Earbuds-for-Audiophile/32979517216.html



This one does not include cable, be careful


----------



## hungphi93

seanc6441 said:


> Aliexpress don't, some sellers do.
> 
> Some are authentic deals and some are deceptive. That's why you should use a price checker to see price history. Google search for one, it helps to make informed purchases during the sale.



Thank you for the suggestions! The price checker is necessary to see what happens


----------



## DynamicEars

rahmish said:


> Yeah, I have both, mk2 wins in almost all aspects, eb2 sounds a bit clearer IMO, to be honest I prefer Mk1, one of my favorites





mbwilson111 said:


> The MK1 rev2 is also one. of my favorites. I don't have the MK2 but I have listened to my husband's a couple of times.





exavolt said:


> Mid is relatively clear but laid back. Personally I feel that the mids are dominated by the bass on some tracks, but my preference is neutralish-bright.
> 
> EB2 overall is very similar to the EBX. It has less refined tuning and has noticable dip in the mids. Sub bass is also light.



So 3 of you prefer MK1 over MK2? what makes MK1 so special, i got asked the seller but the answer isnt really detail enough so i got confused, he only stated if you like bass go get MK2.

actually i prefer clarity, clear mids, mids are my preferences just like @mbwilson111 i listen to jazz, pop jazz, rock jazz, groove, blues, vocals. But i also dont want mids to be thin, got enough textured sub bass / mid bass without bleeds, not particularly must be very big in quantity but decent, not too light. and i just scared there are lack of bass because i used to iem. That is my preferences.
So am i better getting Mk1 or MK2 in this case?

Thank you so much for this extended questions really appreciate and you guys save my time and money!


----------



## jogawag (Mar 23, 2019)

DynamicEars said:


> So 3 of you prefer MK1 over MK2? what makes MK1 so special, i got asked the seller but the answer isnt really detail enough so i got confused, he only stated if you like bass go get MK2.
> 
> actually i prefer clarity, clear mids, mids are my preferences just like @mbwilson111 i listen to jazz, pop jazz, rock jazz, groove, blues, vocals. But i also dont want mids to be thin, got enough textured sub bass / mid bass without bleeds, not particularly must be very big in quantity but decent, not too light. and i just scared there are lack of bass because i used to iem. That is my preferences.
> So am i better getting Mk1 or MK2 in this case?
> ...



https：//aftersoundblog.wordpress.co...son-english-vers-mk1-mk2-mk3-mk300-pk16-pk32/


----------



## coolice

activatorfly said:


> Cheaper here...
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/BGV...f9931832889f5d28e&onelink_page_to=ITEM_DETAIL


its weird thats not listed when try to search from homepage


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 23, 2019)

jogawag said:


> https：//aftersoundblog.wordpress.co...son-english-vers-mk1-mk2-mk3-mk300-pk16-pk32/


I don't really agree with this assesment of the mk2's midrange. The mids are not particularly warm or emphasised in the low mids like suggested here. Infact they are slightly subdued in contrast to the mid bass and sound slightly leaner in the low vocal region. The bass bleeds slightly into the mids but is still well defined, the actual midrange is recessed slightly but raises in the middle-upper mids to neutral levels so it's not too distant. He gives the treble a 6 without mentioning why, I've heard better treble than the mk2 but it's fairly neutral and pleasant overall.

But I guess everyone hears differently.

@DynamicEars

If I had to visualise the mk2 signature it would be like this




Sub bass: as neutral as it gets for earbuds, meaning it's got great sub bass compared to most of the competition.

Mid bass: detailed but slightly exaggerated. Punchy AF lol. But not obnoxious or too bloomy with the thin foams supplied.

Low mids: overshadowed by the big mid bass, slightly recessed.

Mid-high mids: neutralish, but abive the low mids and low treble slightly which makes them slightly agressive on detail

Treble: mostly balanced with a few dips and raises. I'd say the low treble dips ever so slightly to avoid harshness in the presence region, and it doesn't have much of a peak above 10khz to promote air. But it's clean and detailed overall. With the main body of the treble region being neutral and in balance with the mids.


----------



## DynamicEars

jogawag said:


> https：//aftersoundblog.wordpress.co...son-english-vers-mk1-mk2-mk3-mk300-pk16-pk32/





seanc6441 said:


> I don't really agree with this assesment of the mk2's midrange. The mids are not particularly warm or emphasised in the low mids like suggested here. Infact they are slightly subdued in contrast to the mid bass and sound slightly leaner in the low vocal region. The bass bleeds slightly into the mids but is still well defined, the actual midrange is recessed slightly but raises in the middle-upper mids to neutral levels so it's not too distant. He gives the treble a 6 without mentioning why, I've heard better treble than the mk2 but it's fairly neutral and pleasant overall.
> 
> But I guess everyone hears differently.
> 
> ...




Thank you for these.. yeah actually i've already read that one since there is not so many review around about this willsound, but that review is a bit make me confuse which one got better mids
"...But yes compared to mk2 or mk3 it feels the vocal has taken a step backward resulting in a rather v shaped sound...." (MK1)
"...the vocal is bolder and more forward especially in the lower mid region while tehere’s a subtle rolloff around the upper mid to treble area that makes it sound full and somewhat laidback..." (MK2)

so is the vocal is recessed on MK1 but clearer? beacuse he said MK1 is best for vocal.

@seanc6441 Thank you for your explanation and handmade FR lol.. appreciate it that


----------



## seanc6441

DynamicEars said:


> Thank you for these.. yeah actually i've already read that one since there is not so many review around about this willsound, but that review is a bit make me confuse which one got better mids
> "...But yes compared to mk2 or mk3 it feels the vocal has taken a step backward resulting in a rather v shaped sound...." (MK1)
> "...the vocal is bolder and more forward especially in the lower mid region while tehere’s a subtle rolloff around the upper mid to treble area that makes it sound full and somewhat laidback..." (MK2)
> 
> ...


I just wish I had the mk1 on hand to compare, but there's some inconsistency in that review.


----------



## Matarro

I wonder about that review that's been linked, is it on early versions of WillSounds? That could explain why some seem to disagree with it.



seanc6441 said:


> I don't really agree with this assesment of the mk2's midrange. The mids are not particularly warm or emphasised in the low mids like suggested here. Infact they are slightly subdued in contrast to the mid bass and sound slightly leaner in the low vocal region. The bass bleeds slightly into the mids but is still well defined, the actual midrange is recessed slightly but raises in the middle-upper mids to neutral levels so it's not too distant. He gives the treble a 6 without mentioning why, I've heard better treble than the mk2 but it's fairly neutral and pleasant overall.
> 
> But I guess everyone hears differently.
> 
> ...



I agree with your description of the MK2 but keep in mind that I've only listened to the MMCX version and mostly with balanced cable. I agree that the mid bass can overpower the low mids but I've never found the low mids absent, just in the backseat if that makes sense. I guess that depends on your type of music maybe?

I'd say that the MK1 is quite similar but warmer and smoother. I read on Rholupat that the MK1 has more bass but I don't agree with that, I think they have similar bass but the MK2 is punchier. Willy also gave me the impression that the MK1 has more bass but he also hyped the MK1 a lot in general. It seems to be his favorite daily driver and I can totally understand that, it's got a smooth and confortable sound without being veiled. I've ended up using my MK1 on my computer where I mostly watch movies, play games and stuff like that and my MK2 with my ES100 where I mostly listen to music. They both do both jobs about as well though. To be honest they're both so close to me that it's hard to pick one over the other. MK2 is slightly more aggressive and maybe just a litle bit more detailed, MK1 is slightly smoother. If WillSound has a house sound they certainly both have it. Someone with a better ear might be able to say more but that's my take on it, you can't really go wrong here.


----------



## chinmie

Matarro said:


> I wonder about that review that's been linked, is it on early versions of WillSounds? That could explain why some seem to disagree with it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



that's pretty much it. i also prefer the MK2 because it is more detailed and more extended. the MK1 is (to my ears) smoother, and seems fatter because the midbass, but to me the MK2 has a deeper reach and more "slam" . my order of favorite willsounds based on most usage recently now are PK16 > MK2 or MK3 (tied) > MK1


----------



## assassin10000

chinmie said:


> that's pretty much it. i also prefer the MK2 because it is more detailed and more extended. the MK1 is (to my ears) smoother, and seems fatter because the midbass, but to me the MK2 has a deeper reach and more "slam" . my order of favorite willsounds based on most usage recently now are PK16 > MK2 or MK3 (tied) > MK1



How would you compare the MK3 vs the MK2/MK1?


----------



## rkw

assassin10000 said:


> How would you compare the MK3 vs the MK2/MK1?


https://aftersoundblog.wordpress.co...son-english-vers-mk1-mk2-mk3-mk300-pk16-pk32/


----------



## DynamicEars

chinmie said:


> that's pretty much it. i also prefer the MK2 because it is more detailed and more extended. the MK1 is (to my ears) smoother, and seems fatter because the midbass, but to me the MK2 has a deeper reach and more "slam" . my order of favorite willsounds based on most usage recently now are PK16 > MK2 or MK3 (tied) > MK1



@chinmie 

Thank you for pointing this, that is exactly what i need, detail , clarity and extention to sub bass, deeper reach to low end.
So i think if im going pick willsound i will try with MK2 first.
but is EBX is huge increment over willsound MK2? there is an anniversary sale coming soon, EBX is on sale with a good price, should i just straight away take EBX or go with willsound?

i want clarity, details, sub bass that dig down deep, soundstage and imaging. quantity can be adjusted through EQ. Is the different price is justified to take EBX over MK2?

sorry for so many questions over this, even though im in this audio world for more than 10 years, but Im a newbie on earbuds.


----------



## Dabbaranks

Showing my mk2s some love today


----------



## Marcos Fontana

DynamicEars said:


> So 3 of you prefer MK1 over MK2? what makes MK1 so special, i got asked the seller but the answer isnt really detail enough so i got confused, he only stated if you like bass go get MK2.
> 
> actually i prefer clarity, clear mids, mids are my preferences just like @mbwilson111 i listen to jazz, pop jazz, rock jazz, groove, blues, vocals. But i also dont want mids to be thin, got enough textured sub bass / mid bass without bleeds, not particularly must be very big in quantity but decent, not too light. and i just scared there are lack of bass because i used to iem. That is my preferences.
> So am i better getting Mk1 or MK2 in this case?
> ...


Imho EBX is better than MK2 (clarity, subbass and other aspects), but one complicated thing about the EBX is the fit. If you plan to move alot while using EBX, probably you will have some problems. In my case, I can't use EBX out of my desk. The shell is really huge for me while MK2 fits really well. Plz, don't forget to take the fit in account.


----------



## DBaldock9

When I received my Zen 2.0 ZOE and Asura 2.0s AOE, recommendations here were to listen to them without foams, or just using the _rubber rings_), so I installed the rings.
I also installed the rings on my Blur hALF/hALF and K's 500 - since they're also MX500 shells.
When the rings are nice and clean, they provide a better seal than without the rings, and the earbuds sound really good - however the rings are not as comfortable as foams.
So, I've gone back to using Hiegi donut foams on the Blur and K's earbuds.
They may have a slight emphasis to the Mid-Bass now, but they're quite a bit more comfortable to wear.


----------



## DBaldock9

Marcos Fontana said:


> Imho EBX is better than MK2 (clarity, subbass and other aspects), but one complicated thing about the EBX is the fit. If you plan to move alot while using EBX, probably you will have some problems. In my case, I can't use EBX out of my desk. The shell is really huge for me while MK2 fits really well. Plz, don't forget to take the fit in account.



That's why I prefer my Svara-L (32Ω) over the EBX - they fit better, even though they might not have as much of the lowest Bass.


----------



## DynamicEars

Marcos Fontana said:


> Imho EBX is better than MK2 (clarity, subbass and other aspects), but one complicated thing about the EBX is the fit. If you plan to move alot while using EBX, probably you will have some problems. In my case, I can't use EBX out of my desk. The shell is really huge for me while MK2 fits really well. Plz, don't forget to take the fit in account.



oh yeah, I've been read about EBX cons are fit issues, actually how bad is it? unfortunately I can't try it unless I buy. big gamble though.
How Big is the differences in sound quality from MK2?


----------



## Marcos Fontana (Mar 24, 2019)

DynamicEars said:


> oh yeah, I've been read about EBX cons are fit issues, actually how bad is it? unfortunately I can't try it unless I buy. big gamble though.
> How Big is the differences in sound quality from MK2?


I own several earbuds and the EBX has the wrost fit. About the sound quality, for me and for me, the MK2 is around 80~90% of EBX. But there are other options, for example, ty hi-z 650ohm. I personally enjoy it more than the EBX in every aspect and it sounds like a Headphone. The price is the same? But I forgot to mention that ty hi-z 650 is 650ohms, so you will need a good amplifier to get the best of it. As I always use an amplifier, I forgot it. And if you don't have an amplifier, I think you should pick the EBX. MK2 is awesome also and it deliver a lot for the price.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

EBX can be finicky, but imo its not that bad. For me Heigi donuts and using the cinch pulled up to under my chin keep em in place. I can actually walk around without them moving. I walk the dogs in them, and they are perfect for stationary listening. Cant and don't use them for yard work or working around the garage. One little slip and the bass is reduced by a fair amount. 

I tell ya what, all this yappin about mk2 has pretty much guaranteed I'm going to order one.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

BadReligionPunk said:


> EBX can be finicky, but imo its not that bad. For me Heigi donuts and using the cinch pulled up to under my chin keep em in place. I can actually walk around without them moving. I walk the dogs in them, and they are perfect for stationary listening. Cant and don't use them for yard work or working around the garage. One little slip and the bass is reduced by a fair amount.
> 
> I tell ya what, all this yappin about mk2 has pretty much guaranteed I'm going to order one.


Lol, I believe that is a problem with me. It fit well on the left ear but I have a lot of trouble to fit it in right ear... Lol, maybe I have a malformation on my ears . But I don't have this problem with other shells. To say the truth, both are a must have with many others, like rw-9, ry4s ue, Kube, Sabia, Quian69, Svara L (discontinued?), ty hi-z 650, Rose Mojito, k600, ZoomFred, SWD2+ and many others... Resuming, you can't go wrong with both, EBX and MK2.


----------



## chinmie

assassin10000 said:


> How would you compare the MK3 vs the MK2/MK1?



MK3 is warm in mids and treble, but more balanced ratio of bass to mids and treble compared to the MK1 and MK2. for simple old rock/alternative, i like the MK3



DynamicEars said:


> @chinmie
> 
> Thank you for pointing this, that is exactly what i need, detail , clarity and extention to sub bass, deeper reach to low end.
> So i think if im going pick willsound i will try with MK2 first.
> ...



unfortunately i haven't tried the EBX, so can't comment on that. the MK2 (and MK1) can stand toe to toe with the Samsara though, and winning in some scenario. the Samsara is more similar to the MK1 with it's ample midbass and warm signature. the MK2 has more bite overall


----------



## assassin10000

chinmie said:


> MK3 is warm in mids and treble, but more balanced ratio of bass to mids and treble compared to the MK1 and MK2. for simple old rock/alternative, i like the MK3



Gotcha. My use is primarily edm, classical and instrumental. I try and avoid warm signatures, neutral or slightly cold/bright with good sub-bass.


----------



## chinmie

assassin10000 said:


> Gotcha. My use is primarily edm, classical and instrumental. I try and avoid warm signatures, neutral or slightly cold/bright with good sub-bass.



for edm i would definitely suggest the MK2 between the willsounds


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 24, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> Gotcha. My use is primarily edm, classical and instrumental. I try and avoid warm signatures, neutral or slightly cold/bright with good sub-bass.


I wouldn't really use the mk2 for classical as a first choice personally. The slight mid bass bloat and low mid dip will cover up some detail in lower frequency instruments.

I find my mojito with the treble dampener filter to kill sibiliance and with multi hole full foam the best for classical. Effortless detail and enough body in the very low mids to carry deeper instruments. Also while the mojito sub bass only extends moderately, with a lighter-moderate seal of just 1 full foam the mid bass is very clean and nimble with no bloat. It's still a little recessed in the vocal range, but that's not hugely detrimental to classical. Although I still think bumping it up 2db makes a world of difference making the mojito eurphoric in the mids.

Now I'm not trying to brag or suggest you buy it new (mine was used, the price new is too high IMO).

But there may be similar sound sigs in the mid priced range if someone cares to chime in?


----------



## DynamicEars

Marcos Fontana said:


> I own several earbuds and the EBX has the wrost fit. About the sound quality, for me and for me, the MK2 is around 80~90% of EBX. But there are other options, for example, ty hi-z 650ohm. I personally enjoy it more than the EBX in every aspect and it sounds like a Headphone. The price is the same? But I forgot to mention that ty hi-z 650 is 650ohms, so you will need a good amplifier to get the best of it. As I always use an amplifier, I forgot it. And if you don't have an amplifier, I think you should pick the EBX. MK2 is awesome also and it deliver a lot for the price.





BadReligionPunk said:


> EBX can be finicky, but imo its not that bad. For me Heigi donuts and using the cinch pulled up to under my chin keep em in place. I can actually walk around without them moving. I walk the dogs in them, and they are perfect for stationary listening. Cant and don't use them for yard work or working around the garage. One little slip and the bass is reduced by a fair amount.
> 
> I tell ya what, all this yappin about mk2 has pretty much guaranteed I'm going to order one.





Marcos Fontana said:


> Lol, I believe that is a problem with me. It fit well on the left ear but I have a lot of trouble to fit it in right ear... Lol, maybe I have a malformation on my ears . But I don't have this problem with other shells. To say the truth, both are a must have with many others, like rw-9, ry4s ue, Kube, Sabia, Quian69, Svara L (discontinued?), ty hi-z 650, Rose Mojito, k600, ZoomFred, SWD2+ and many others... Resuming, you can't go wrong with both, EBX and MK2.





chinmie said:


> MK3 is warm in mids and treble, but more balanced ratio of bass to mids and treble compared to the MK1 and MK2. for simple old rock/alternative, i like the MK3
> 
> 
> 
> unfortunately i haven't tried the EBX, so can't comment on that. the MK2 (and MK1) can stand toe to toe with the Samsara though, and winning in some scenario. the Samsara is more similar to the MK1 with it's ample midbass and warm signature. the MK2 has more bite overall



Thank you for catching up these guys, really appreciate it!

So if MK2 got 80-90% of EBX sound, with better fit, I guess MK2 will be much better value and can be a good all arounder here. 
Also MK2 said to be better than EB2 (and some people commented EB2 is like little brother of EBX)
and @chinmie say can go toe to toe with Samsara. So many good reviews about MK2

I'm out for hi-z 650ohm since i can't use it with my phone for light portable use. Actually if Ali isnt cutting the price of EBX i will definitely pick MK2 straight away, just that very good anniversary sale price bugging me for this good chance ($75)

Once again thank you helpful people! Still thinking for final decision


----------



## DBaldock9

DynamicEars said:


> Thank you for catching up these guys, really appreciate it!
> 
> So if MK2 got 80-90% of EBX sound, with better fit, I guess MK2 will be much better value and can be a good all arounder here.
> Also MK2 said to be better than EB2 (and some people commented EB2 is like little brother of EBX)
> ...



Just a quick bit of clarification - since the EBX is from NiceHCK, it's actually up to "Jim NiceHCK" to offer items on sale, or not. If you use Facebook, you can contact Jim there, and ask if the EBX is going to be discounted.


----------



## itomu (May 6, 2019)

https://twitter.com/FUJIYAAVIC/status/1109370036014080000

Moondrop Liebesleid next version.
sorry if you know.


----------



## kurtextrem

Nice, a modified shell. Might look like it has better fit in the ears.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

@ClieOS, Jim for HCK tell me you really like the SMABAT ST-10.

I'm really curious to know how they sound, especially soundstage and mids.

Can you share some impressions???

And perhaps a fast comparaison with the EBX???

Would be very appreciate man...cause these look very promising.


----------



## kadas152

Trying to decide on 1 budget bud for upcoming sale. I've already have ton of DIY goods coming my way and need to cut my expenses but also wanted to have one of currently favourite buds as reference point to my DIY attempts  

So there's shootout:
K's 64s ($7.72)
Snow Lotus 1.0 plus CE ($10.92)
YINCROW RW-9 ($14.09)
 RY4S ($8.99)


----------



## exavolt

Nymphonomaniac said:


> @ClieOS, Jim for HCK tell me you really like the SMABAT ST-10.
> 
> I'm really curious to know how they sound, especially soundstage and mids.
> 
> ...


here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2729#post-14852061

Exchanged some messages with Jim through Ali after I placed my order. He said that I'll love the ST-10; probably because he can see that I am enjoying their EBX.

I've always wanted to get Svara L but it's now replaced by ST-10, so I didn't think twice and placed an order.


----------



## exavolt

itomu said:


> https://twitter.com/FUJIYAAVIC/status/1109370036014080000
> 
> Moondrop Liebesleid next version.
> sorry if you knew.


I thought that the Martini will be their next release. https://www.instagram.com/p/BsdP5ocgxwp/

I'll need to listen to chinmie's or anyone's IRL first before I can decide whether to get my own Liebeslied.


----------



## rkw (Mar 25, 2019)

exavolt said:


> I thought that the Martini will be their next release. https://www.instagram.com/p/BsdP5ocgxwp/


That's from Rose (maker of Mojito). Moondrop (maker of Liebesleid) is a different brand.


----------



## exavolt (Mar 25, 2019)

rkw said:


> That's from Rose (maker of Mojito). Moondrop (maker of Liebesleid) is a different brand.


Duh! I mixed them up.


----------



## Ira Delphic (Mar 25, 2019)

The *Headroom MS16* arrived Friday.

*The Good: *
Fit - Fit is surprisingly great for my ears! They lock into place and don't fall out when walking. This is a huge plus.
Controls -  for Android (LG V30) work extremely well (volume, stop/pause, etc) for my music apps and audiobook player.

*The Not So Good:*
Bass is flabby, but I tested it using some extreme examples. Overall the SQ is just OK. It could be what some may consider to be a "fun" sound (do to the open back?), but I wouldn't describe it as accurate sound reproduction. I didn't like how female vocals sounded. 

*Build:* plug is fine. Cord is rubbery. I wonder how it would be in hot weather?
Good value for a $5 earbud with mic and controls. The copper wire in the cord appears to be thicker than other budget earbuds.
The shells are extremely light weight (aluminum/plastic?)._ If there are better sounding earbuds with the same fit I'd love to know about them!_

I got a great pair of earbuds for audiobook listening, and the mic also comes in handy. These were compared to Kube v1. If this is how the Kube sounds, I'll definitely pass.


----------



## Ira Delphic (Mar 25, 2019)

kadas152 said:


> Trying to decide on 1 budget bud for upcoming sale. I've already have ton of DIY goods coming my way and need to cut my expenses but also wanted to have one of currently favourite buds as reference point to my DIY attempts
> 
> So there's shootout:
> K's 64s ($7.72)
> ...



I have an old 'long cord" version of the K's 64 so can't comment on those. The k's 64 are very popular here and I'm tempted to try another pair. 

Between the RW-9 and the Snow Lotus, the RW-9 is worth the extra few dollars. You won't be disappointed with either.


----------



## FastAndClean




----------



## FastAndClean




----------



## ClieOS (Mar 25, 2019)

Nymphonomaniac said:


> @ClieOS, Jim for HCK tell me you really like the SMABAT ST-10.
> 
> I'm really curious to know how they sound, especially soundstage and mids.
> 
> ...



Yes， I really do like the ST-10 very much. I posted a bit about it before - it has more or less a very neutral and almost reference-like frequency response. Most earbuds are on the warmer side of the presentation with a richer, fuller tone; A small handful are on the opposite with the colder side of presentation that is detailed and bright. ST-10 on the other hand is almost right in the middle of it, neither really warm nor cold, but retains a good amount of texture and detail. To me, it is like a well-driven Etymotic ER4S gained the good soundstage of earbuds, with some of the best layering and separation I have ever heard on any earbuds. There is no one particular frequency range that stands out as they are almost in equal amount of each others - so you won't find a big amount of bass, mid or treble in quantity, but they have excellent quality nonetheless. Bass reaches down very deep, mid is clear with a slight sweetness while treble is detailed but not overly bright. Overall, I'll say it is right between a top- and 2nd-tier level of SQ to my ears. EBX is also around the same level of SQ, but it has a slightly brighter, more forwarded presentation when compared to ST-10. Between the two, my preference goes slightly to the ST-10.


----------



## mbwilson111

ClieOS said:


> Yes， I really do like the ST-10 very much. I posted a bit about it before - it has more or less a very neutral and almost reference-like frequency response. Most earbuds are on the warmer side of the presentation with a richer, fuller tone; A small handful are on the opposite with the colder side of presentation that is detailed and bright. ST-10 on the other hand is almost right in the middle of it, neither really warm nor cold, but retains a good amount of texture and detail. To me, it is like a well-driven Etymotic ER4S gained the good soundstage of earbuds, with some of the best layering and separation I have ever heard on any earbuds. There is no one particular frequency range that stands out as they are almost in equal amount of each others - so you won't find a big amount of bass, mid or treble in quantity, but they have excellent quality nonetheless. Bass reaches down very deep, mid is clear with a slight sweetness while treble is detailed but not overly bright. Overall, I'll say it is right between a top- and 2nd-tier level of SQ to my ears. EBX is also around the same level of SQ, but it has a slightly brighter, more forwarded presentation when compared to ST-10. Between the two, my preference goes slightly to the ST-10.



I am looking forward to the arrival of my ST-10.


----------



## DBaldock9

For those who may be interested - here's a budget priced (less than $10) cable with controls for for _Play/Pause/Vol+/Vol-_ that could be used to recable your earbuds (by removing the 2.5mm plugs).
It's available in Red, White, Blue, & Black.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tia...-X3-Earphone-3-5mm-Male-to-2/32834725227.html


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

ClieOS said:


> Yes， I really do like the ST-10 very much. I posted a bit about it before - it has more or less a very neutral and almost reference-like frequency response. Most earbuds are on the warmer side of the presentation with a richer, fuller tone; A small handful are on the opposite with the colder side of presentation that is detailed and bright. ST-10 on the other hand is almost right in the middle of it, neither really warm nor cold, but retains a good amount of texture and detail. To me, it is like a well-driven Etymotic ER4S gained the good soundstage of earbuds, with some of the best layering and separation I have ever heard on any earbuds. There is no one particular frequency range that stands out as they are almost in equal amount of each others - so you won't find a big amount of bass, mid or treble in quantity, but they have excellent quality nonetheless. Bass reaches down very deep, mid is clear with a slight sweetness while treble is detailed but not overly bright. Overall, I'll say it is right between a top- and 2nd-tier level of SQ to my ears. EBX is also around the same level of SQ, but it has a slightly brighter, more forwarded presentation when compared to ST-10. Between the two, my preference goes slightly to the ST-10.



Well, thanks man, this look very very interesting then!

Reading this make me think of my Final Audio E4000 impressions, but with perhaps more treble extension and airier presentation....if this sound as balanced as you say, it will be a very enriching audio experience for sure!

I'm happy that they are different than EBX too, even if I adore them.

Looking fowards for this layering talent too!

I'M EXCITED!


----------



## exavolt (Mar 26, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> Yes， I really do like the ST-10 very much. I posted a bit about it before - it has more or less a very neutral and almost reference-like frequency response. Most earbuds are on the warmer side of the presentation with a richer, fuller tone; A small handful are on the opposite with the colder side of presentation that is detailed and bright. ST-10 on the other hand is almost right in the middle of it, neither really warm nor cold, but retains a good amount of texture and detail. To me, it is like a well-driven Etymotic ER4S gained the good soundstage of earbuds, with some of the best layering and separation I have ever heard on any earbuds. There is no one particular frequency range that stands out as they are almost in equal amount of each others - so you won't find a big amount of bass, mid or treble in quantity, but they have excellent quality nonetheless. Bass reaches down very deep, mid is clear with a slight sweetness while treble is detailed but not overly bright. Overall, I'll say it is right between a top- and 2nd-tier level of SQ to my ears. EBX is also around the same level of SQ, but it has a slightly brighter, more forwarded presentation when compared to ST-10. Between the two, my preference goes slightly to the ST-10.


Which buds you put into top tier in terms of SQ?

Can't wait for my ST-10... it's not shipped yet.


----------



## ClieOS

exavolt said:


> Which buds you put into top tier in terms of SQ?
> 
> Can't wait for my ST-10... it's not shipped yet.



Titanium Bell, Mojito, Lord.E, SWD2+, TM9, Liebesleid, BK balanced - just some on top of my head.


----------



## Palash

My ISN Audio Rambo, First Impression - Wow Mids, Low Bass, Sparkling Treble. Soundsage - Never experienced such wide soundstage in earbuds. Resolution -Top notch. Detailed review coming soon.


----------



## jogawag

ClieOS said:


> Titanium Bell, Mojito, Lord.E, SWD2+, TM9, Liebesleid, BK balanced - just some on top of my head.


Please tell me where can we purchase ZEVA Lord.E?


----------



## silverfishla

mbwilson111 said:


> I am looking forward to the arrival of my ST-10.


Can’t wait to hear your review of this bud.  I like the bass port design (which is sort of like the B&W Nautilus speakers).  I was actually thinking that that would be a great design for an earbud (and LO and behold, there it sort of is).  I’d like to hear how well it is made.  I’m kind of concerned when I look at the photos and see that slip on design of the outer shell in conjunction with the bass port.  That needs to be totally sealed for it to do what it’s supposed to (sans vent).  Love to hear your impressions when you get them.


----------



## coolice

ClieOS said:


> Titanium Bell, Mojito, Lord.E, SWD2+, TM9, Liebesleid, BK balanced - just some on top of my head.


before retune or after?
happen to have access for 2nd hand Lord.E for around $80, already owned Dragon 2.0L, should i go for it?


----------



## ClieOS

jogawag said:


> Please tell me where can we purchase ZEVA Lord.E?



Taobao, as far as I know. Note that it is 500ohm and needs a good source to really shine.


----------



## ClieOS

coolice said:


> before retune or after?
> happen to have access for 2nd hand Lord.E for around $80, already owned Dragon 2.0L, should i go for it?



Before and after. The retune just refine what is already an excellent earbud from the beginning.


----------



## mbwilson111

silverfishla said:


> Can’t wait to hear your review of this bud.  I like the bass port design (which is sort of like the B&W Nautilus speakers).  I was actually thinking that that would be a great design for an earbud (and LO and behold, there it sort of is).  I’d like to hear how well it is made.  I’m kind of concerned when I look at the photos and see that slip on design of the outer shell in conjunction with the bass port.  That needs to be totally sealed for it to do what it’s supposed to (sans vent).  Love to hear your impressions when you get them.



It is my understanding that the ST-10 is the same or similar build as the Svara-L .  I have never seen any complaints about the build.  I think that Svara-L is discontinued and this is a replacement/upgrade.  I tried my husband's Svara-L before ordering this one so I would know if it fits.  I did not listen to the Svara... just tried it on for size... lol.   Very comfortable.  I have never worn a bud around the ear before this.

As far a reviews go... have you ever seen me do an actual review?     You know I am just going to take a photo and say that I like it   Because I know I will like it.  @ClieOS  already described the sound.


----------



## j4100

I absolutely do not need the ST-10. If I keep telling myself that, I might make it through the sale in one piece.


----------



## exavolt

j4100 said:


> I absolutely do not need the ST-10. If I keep telling myself that, I might make it through the sale in one piece.


You and me definitely don't need them. There, I support you.

But you sure you are not curious about them? At a discounted price?


----------



## DBaldock9

mbwilson111 said:


> It is my understanding that the ST-10 is the same or similar build as the Svara-L .  I have never seen any complaints about the build.  I think that Svara-L is discontinued and this is a replacement/upgrade.  I tried my husband's Svara-L before ordering this one so I would know if it fits.  I did not listen to the Svara... just tried it on for size... lol.   Very comfortable.  I have never worn a bud around the ear before this.
> 
> As far a reviews go... have you ever seen me do an actual review?     You know I am just going to take a photo and say that I like it   Because I know I will like it.  @ClieOS  already described the sound.



We just want you to explain that it's the best thing since sliced bread...


----------



## HungryPanda

Beautiful brown granary bread fresh from the oven


----------



## mbwilson111 (Mar 26, 2019)

DBaldock9 said:


> We just want you to explain that it's the best thing since sliced bread...



Wouldn't take much to be better than sliced bread for me...give me crumpets, croissants, bagels or muffins any day!

The ST-10 will be less fattening for sure.


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> Beautiful brown granary bread fresh from the oven



That's different. I used to bake that 4 loaves at a time back before you knew me..back in the olden days...lol. At least half a loaf never got a chance to cool.


----------



## RobinFood

ClieOS said:


> Titanium Bell, Mojito, Lord.E, SWD2+, TM9, Liebesleid, BK balanced - just some on top of my head.



How does the ST-10 compare to the Liebesleid or the SWD2+? Too bad top tier buds don't have detachable cables (except for the Mojito), it kind of makes it hard to go short-wire on the ES100...


----------



## ClieOS (Mar 26, 2019)

RobinFood said:


> How does the ST-10 compare to the Liebesleid or the SWD2+? Too bad top tier buds don't have detachable cables (except for the Mojito), it kind of makes it hard to go short-wire on the ES100...



You were saying?






I won't say ST-10 is technically better than any of the top-tier - mainly because each of the top-tier has done something particularly great that earn them a top spot in my heart. ST-10 on the other hand isn't really great in any one area,  but the overall quality of every aspects is still superb. It doesn't have a great amount of bass but it reaches deep. It doesn't have the sweetest of mid but vocal is still well textured. It isn't the brightest but there are still plenty of detail. It doesn't have the biggest of soundstage but it is very well layered. All and all, ST-10 is just of of those earbud that does a lot of things right and very few things wrong.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

After not having listened to them in several weeks, I plugged the RY4S UE buds in last night and gave them a listen...and I think they are the best sounding buds I have.  I was quite surprised at how full, open and balanced they are.  Lately I'd been listening mostly to the Yincrow RW-9 and the SL 1.0se, both of which sound very good as well but just slightly more veiled and tame I think.  The RY4SUE seems to me to have better bass and better treble extension while still having good mids.  I'd actually say I don't find them to have a weakness really...


----------



## Zerohour88

ClieOS said:


> Titanium Bell, Mojito, Lord.E, SWD2+, TM9, Liebesleid, BK balanced - just some on top of my head.



sigh, just when I thought I was safe from the current sale of ST-10, you drop this nugget, lol

I suppose this is the correct shop for it?
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...02a8h&id=577640409892&ns=1&abbucket=16#detail

there's the Tenhz earbud too, but seems not available on aliexpress so no one here have them.


----------



## toear

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> After not having listened to them in several weeks, I plugged the RY4S UE buds in last night and gave them a listen...and I think they are the best sounding buds I have.  I was quite surprised at how full, open and balanced they are.  Lately I'd been listening mostly to the Yincrow RW-9 and the SL 1.0se, both of which sound very good as well but just slightly more veiled and tame I think.  The RY4SUE seems to me to have better bass and better treble extension while still having good mids.  I'd actually say I don't find them to have a weakness really...


 After experimenting with foams and doubling up I also agree. I find the separation, soundstage, and holographic qualities along with the clarity outstanding... Not quite as immersive as my Samsaras (which are a bit dark) but dare I say comparable (maybe 90-95% of the way there?).... I am also finding this with the Qian 69s as well...  big holographic sound!!


----------



## DBaldock9

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> After not having listened to them in several weeks, I plugged the RY4S UE buds in last night and gave them a listen...and I think they are the best sounding buds I have.  I was quite surprised at how full, open and balanced they are.  Lately I'd been listening mostly to the Yincrow RW-9 and the SL 1.0se, both of which sound very good as well but just slightly more veiled and tame I think.  The RY4SUE seems to me to have better bass and better treble extension while still having good mids.  I'd actually say I don't find them to have a weakness really...



Today at work, I've been listening to my RY4S UE (using the VE Rubber Rings, rather than foams), connected to the Single-Ended output of my iBasso PB2 (OPA627AU op-amps), using my DP-X1 Line Out as the source.
With the rings, the low Bass is there, without any Mid-Bass hump (from using Donut Foams).
These are probably the best sub-$10 earbuds that I've heard.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Diy day... Vido with replaced cable. 






Vido is an awesome earbud. Will be my earbud that I will use everywhere. I will buy many to replace cables and try different tuning setups. The color of the SL1+ is amazing. In the middle, the TY Hi-Z 650ohm.

Cable that I used in the Vido: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY-...?spm=a2g03.10010108.1000001.12.c9ab4501wZfqjm


----------



## ClieOS

Zerohour88 said:


> sigh, just when I thought I was safe from the current sale of ST-10, you drop this nugget, lol
> 
> I suppose this is the correct shop for it?
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...02a8h&id=577640409892&ns=1&abbucket=16#detail
> ...



That's the official store. It is kinda sad that ZEVA doesn't get much love here because it is harder to get, but everyone of their earbuds I tried are just excellent price wise.


----------



## exavolt

Might be unpopular opinion. For $30 or less, I am fine with MX or PK shells. But it's just not quite right for me for things with $200 or $300 price tag to have the exact same shape as $10 products.


----------



## mbwilson111

exavolt said:


> Might be unpopular opinion. For $30 or less, I am fine with MX or PK shells. But it's just not quite right for me for things with $200 or $300 price tag to have the exact same shape as $10 products.



I know what you mean... even if they are the same shape I think the material should be more premium... like metal or resin


----------



## seanc6441

exavolt said:


> Might be unpopular opinion. For $30 or less, I am fine with MX or PK shells. But it's just not quite right for me for things with $200 or $300 price tag to have the exact same shape as $10 products.


If the sound is absolutely exceptional then I'll make allowances. But most 'TOTL'  earbuds I've heard are decidedly NOT exceptional in all regards, at least not in stock form, and thus the cheap build quality becomes annoying.

Because you ask yourself, where did the money go into these earbuds?


----------



## waynes world

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> After not having listened to them in several weeks, I plugged the RY4S UE buds in last night and gave them a listen...and I think they are the best sounding buds I have.  I was quite surprised at how full, open and balanced they are.  Lately I'd been listening mostly to the Yincrow RW-9 and the SL 1.0se, both of which sound very good as well but just slightly more veiled and tame I think.  The RY4SUE seems to me to have better bass and better treble extension while still having good mids.  I'd actually say I don't find them to have a weakness really...



The RW-9's have been stuck in my ears pretty much since I got them, but due to your endorsement, I'll have to give the RY4S UE's some lovin'!


----------



## letlive

If somebody is interested in the Sabia MMCX Version, which is currently sold out on eBay, please pm me. I'm selling mine.


----------



## cqtek

Hello.

From my audio blog, I'm measuring the frequency response of all my headphones. IEMs are more or less, easy to measure. Where I have more problems is in the measurement of earbuds. I know that it is critical to fit the coupling parts with the microphone. For now I'm using a cheap one, the Dayton Audio iMM-6. I intend to buy the Veritas II later. 
I also know that the most variable frequency range is the treble zone, depending on the distance the mic, this zone increases or decreases.

My graphs are here:

https://hiendportable.com/2019/03/02/respuestas-de-frecuencia/

I encourage you to take a critical look at it. If you have ideas on how to improve the coupling (it should be something conical) or if you have other ideas, they are welcome.

Here is an example of the ISN Rambo:


----------



## darmanastartes

cqtek said:


> Hello.
> 
> From my audio blog, I'm measuring the frequency response of all my headphones. IEMs are more or less, easy to measure. Where I have more problems is in the measurement of earbuds. I know that it is critical to fit the coupling parts with the microphone. For now I'm using a cheap one, the Dayton Audio iMM-6. I intend to buy the Veritas II later.
> I also know that the most variable frequency range is the treble zone, depending on the distance the mic, this zone increases or decreases.
> ...


How long is your coupler? I've measured several IEMs on your list with the same mic and it seems like the entire graph beyond 1k is less prominent than it should be relative to the bass.


----------



## cqtek (Mar 27, 2019)

The coupler measures 15mm from its end to the micro grid. When I insert IEMs, the distance to the mic is usually 5mm.
Actually the earbuds are further away from the grid, due to the use of an extra conical coupler.

As I said, I know that measurements, especially in mid and high frequencies, can vary depending on the distance to the microphone.


----------



## Lionheart24 (Mar 28, 2019)

Hi guys.

I have the Willsound MK3 final (love it) but all the talk about the RY4S UE (and SL+ CE) is making me reconsider my current spending hiatus. 

I guess my question is, is it not worth trying to get the RY4s because I already have the MK3 or are there enough differences in their sound that and that I should still get them?

I lean towards neutral to bright SS.​


----------



## RobinFood

Lionheart24 said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have the Willsound MK2 (love it), and was dissapointed by the RY4S UE. It definately is good for the price, but I feel that the Willsounds are better in every concievable way, especially the natural timber. That is what the RY4S lack.


----------



## Lionheart24

RobinFood said:


> I have the Willsound MK2 (love it), and was dissapointed by the RY4S UE. It definately is good for the price, but I feel that the Willsounds are better in every concievable way, especially the natural timber. That is what the RY4S lack.



Thanks man, awesome name btw.

Guess I'm safe. Hah!


----------



## DynamicEars

Wanna say thank you for every suggestion here..
I've decided to take EBX over the rest, hopefully i made good decision. EBX is on the way!

still i will keep an eye on willsound..


----------



## cocolinho

I bought a bunch of low cost earbuds during the Sales on Ali 
Special sales price + coupons well spent = 4x Vido + RW-9 + EMX500 + RY4s + Iris 1.0 type C + Lotus Snow 1.0 + for just 50€!
I don't expect any of them to rival my MK1 SE but I'll compare,  maybe keep 1 or 2 I like and give the others away to friends & family.  
So fun to buy on Ali


----------



## exavolt

seanc6441 said:


> If the sound is absolutely exceptional then I'll make allowances. But most 'TOTL'  earbuds I've heard are decidedly NOT exceptional in all regards, at least not in stock form, and thus the cheap build quality becomes annoying.
> 
> Because you ask yourself, where did the money go into these earbuds?


I think I've got the idea which components made up the cost for these buds: mainly the drivers, and, high quality cables and probably genuine jacks. MX and PK shells are mass produced (most likely used for creating fakes) easily available and relatively cheap. And thanks to this, we have some respectable DIYers in (SE) Asia. But for Chinese earbuds makers, they should have better access to make custom shells as we can see at the IEM world: KZ ZSN feels premium for the price and BQEYZ have created unique shells for all their models. But well, I can guess that IEM market is significantly larger than earbuds (for now) so they could push the ROI point higher.


----------



## exavolt

DynamicEars said:


> Wanna say thank you for every suggestion here..
> I've decided to take EBX over the rest, hopefully i made good decision. EBX is on the way!
> 
> still i will keep an eye on willsound..


I really hope that you'll enjoy them. If you are enjoying Tin Audio T2 and Kanas, it should be pretty familiar.


----------



## DynamicEars

exavolt said:


> I really hope that you'll enjoy them. If you are enjoying Tin Audio T2 and Kanas, it should be pretty familiar.



Thanks to you too buddy, yeah hopefully since i love my kanas pro as well as i was enjoying T2 before i have my KP


----------



## rkw

exavolt said:


> MX and PK shells are mass produced ( most likely used for creating fakes) easily available and relatively cheap.


Fixed it.

MX500 and PK are all copies of the original shells from Sennheiser and Docomo, and dirt cheap. These shells can be purchased for pennies apiece. Actual mass production cost each is probably $0.01 or less.


----------



## DBaldock9

At the start of the AliExpress Sale, I ordered the Smabat ST-10 Earbuds from NiceHCK ($81.84, purchased with mobile app), and the K's 600 Earbuds ($79.01) from someplace else  .  I also ordered ~24 different 2.5mm / 3.5mm DIY cables, to use on Earbuds that I'm assembling.


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> At the start of the AliExpress Sale, I ordered the Smabat ST-10 Earbuds from NiceHCK ($81.84, purchased with mobile app), and the K's 600 Earbuds ($79.01) from someplace else  .  I also ordered ~24 different 2.5mm / 3.5mm DIY cables, to use on Earbuds that I'm assembling.



Awesome! I was just looking at the Smabat's there, and marvelling at the slick marketing literature. But that translates to $110CAD. I need more money lol!

I'll be interested in how you feel the Svara L's compare.

And you're getting the K's 600... doubly awesome!


----------



## Dabbaranks

Anyone try the clear transparent k300 thats on aliexpress? I see the original is a black one with the engraved silver ornament on the cable, looking to grab this transparent one to try along with a pair of Faaeal Rosemary's.


----------



## XmarX

Is the Smabat ST-10 the best earbud under 100USD ?

BTW, I'm about to get the NICEHCK EB2 for like 19USD from AliExpress. I'm wondering if there is a better sounding earbud there under 65USD.


----------



## XmarX

Bought the EB2 for 17USD (with 2 USD discount coupon) from AliEXpress. I just needed a less 'serious' earbud for gaming and music listening.
Hope that it doesn't underwhelm !


----------



## seanc6441

exavolt said:


> I think I've got the idea which components made up the cost for these buds: mainly the drivers, and, high quality cables and probably genuine jacks. MX and PK shells are mass produced (most likely used for creating fakes) easily available and relatively cheap. And thanks to this, we have some respectable DIYers in (SE) Asia. But for Chinese earbuds makers, they should have better access to make custom shells as we can see at the IEM world: KZ ZSN feels premium for the price and BQEYZ have created unique shells for all their models. But well, I can guess that IEM market is significantly larger than earbuds (for now) so they could push the ROI point higher.


Honestly the cost is less then 1/10th of the sale price I believe.

I really dont believe any of these matierials are as expensive as you would believe.

Good tuning can get you so far, but if The drivers are the same as most others you will have similar levels of distortion and transients between TOTL and budget earbuds given the shell design is practically identical.

That's why I'm always more intrigued with drivers using alternative matierial and magnets because there is a good chance they are not generic drivers and thus may perform better.


----------



## subwoof3r

omg, long time I did not posted anything here
*Smabat ST-10* will be my next!


----------



## TheoS53

I recently got the Massdrop HD58X which I'm absolutely loving. Without question the best $150 headphones I've reviewed, and absolutely the best value of any full-sized headphone I've tried.

But it got me thinking..if you can get this type of sound for just $150, how much do you really need to spend to get the same (or at least very similar) in a more portable package. So that prompted me to start looking towards earbuds and then work my way up the pricing ladder to see where I would hit that sweet-spot. 

I'll be getting a couple and reviewing and comparing them with one another. So far I'm looking at getting these to get me started:

**** MX50
EMX500
Vido
Qian25
RY04
MS16
Monk+
Yincrow X6
Qian39
RY4s
K's 32
Qian69
K's 64
Moondrop Nameless
Yincrow RW-9

Any others that you guys can think of that would truly be worth checking out or perhaps ones that seem redundant on that initial list?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

TheoS53 said:


> I recently got the Massdrop HD58X which I'm absolutely loving. Without question the best $150 headphones I've reviewed, and absolutely the best value of any full-sized headphone I've tried.
> 
> But it got me thinking..if you can get this type of sound for just $150, how much do you really need to spend to get the same (or at least very similar) in a more portable package. So that prompted me to start looking towards earbuds and then work my way up the pricing ladder to see where I would hit that sweet-spot.
> 
> ...



make sure the RY4S you test is the UE version.  It's a little tricky to find (you have to choose one of the two correct "color" options), but it is considerably better than the standard RY4S...


----------



## Marcos Fontana

TheoS53 said:


> I recently got the Massdrop HD58X which I'm absolutely loving. Without question the best $150 headphones I've reviewed, and absolutely the best value of any full-sized headphone I've tried.
> 
> But it got me thinking..if you can get this type of sound for just $150, how much do you really need to spend to get the same (or at least very similar) in a more portable package. So that prompted me to start looking towards earbuds and then work my way up the pricing ladder to see where I would hit that sweet-spot.
> 
> ...


Snow Lotus 1+
WillSounds

If you want to spend a bit more:
K600, EBX, Ourart AGX, Smabat ST-10


----------



## Ira Delphic (Mar 29, 2019)

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> make sure the RY4S you test is the UE version.  It's a little tricky to find (you have to choose one of the two correct "color" options), but it is considerably better than the standard RY4S...



I was able to find the UE version by hovering over the color choice. But what is UE?


----------



## seanc6441

TheoS53 said:


> I recently got the Massdrop HD58X which I'm absolutely loving. Without question the best $150 headphones I've reviewed, and absolutely the best value of any full-sized headphone I've tried.
> 
> But it got me thinking..if you can get this type of sound for just $150, how much do you really need to spend to get the same (or at least very similar) in a more portable package. So that prompted me to start looking towards earbuds and then work my way up the pricing ladder to see where I would hit that sweet-spot.
> 
> ...


Vido and Yincrow x6 are the same driver. Recabled and rebranded. You 
Probably don't need both.


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> Vido and Yincrow x6 are the same driver. Recabled and rebranded. You
> Probably don't need both.



Unless you don't plan to recable the Vido.   My Yincrow x6 is red with a red cable



Ira Delphic said:


> I was able to find the UE version by hovering over the color choice. But what is UE?



I think it is suppose to be the same or similar to what Ultimate Ears puts on theirs?


----------



## TheoS53 (Mar 29, 2019)

Thanks for the replies and input.



Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> make sure the RY4S you test is the UE version.  It's a little tricky to find (you have to choose one of the two correct "color" options), but it is considerably better than the standard RY4S...



Yeah that is the one I selected.



Marcos Fontana said:


> Snow Lotus 1+
> WillSounds
> 
> If you want to spend a bit more:
> K600, EBX, Ourart AGX, Smabat ST-10



I might look at the SL 1+, but those others are considerably more than what I'm prepared to spend on earbuds (at least for now, anyways). Ironically I cold easily buy them if I was just buying a single or a pair, but for the purpose of reviews and comparisons I think it's best to start off with a bunch of more affordable ones.



seanc6441 said:


> Vido and Yincrow x6 are the same driver. Recabled and rebranded. You
> Probably don't need both.



Much appreciated, I didn't know that. So no change to the tuning (foam dampers, etc)?


----------



## TheoS53 (Mar 29, 2019)

OK, so here's an updated list for what I'm looking at:

Vido
Qian25
RY04
Monk+
MX50
RY4S

MS16
Fengru EMX500
Qian39
RY4S UE
K's 32
Fengru EMX500s

Snow Lotus 2.0
Qian69
**** EMX500
GM500
K's 64
Snow Lotus 1+

Moondrop Nameless
Yincrow RW-9


Again if you can spot any redundancies or just something that is otherwise really not worth checking out in that list, please do let me know, much appreciated.


----------



## seanc6441

@TheoS53 
Not as far as I'm aware.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

Ira Delphic said:


> I was able to find the UE version by hovering over the color choice. But what is UE?



Honestly, I don't know.  lol.  I mean I think it relates to the cable.  Personally, I'm not a cable guy.  I just don't really buy the notion that different (non-defective) cables will affect SQ in a notable way.  So, I suspect the UE version of the RY4S is actually tuned differently from the regular version - because it definitely sounds different.  The standard RY4S has a sort of "all sliders maxed" quality - it sounds good, but as you increase the volume it gets pretty harsh.  Not so the UE version...


----------



## mbwilson111

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> Honestly, I don't know.  lol.  I mean I think it relates to the cable.  Personally, I'm not a cable guy.  I just don't really buy the notion that different (non-defective) cables will affect SQ in a notable way.  So, I suspect the UE version of the RY4S is actually tuned differently from the regular version - because it definitely sounds different.  The standard RY4S has a sort of "all sliders maxed" quality - it sounds good, but as you increase the volume it gets pretty harsh.  Not so the UE version...



That is really interesting.  I have only heard the UE version.  My husband @HungryPanda has a red RY4S with the silver cable and likes it but neither of us has compared.  Unfortunately he has to work this weekend so we cannot compare at the moment.

BTW, surely I am not the only one who has the RY04.  Love the shell, love the cable and I personally appreciate buds that have a more balanced sound signature.  My husband also liked it when he borrowed it.  We obviously both have too many choices so nothing becomes a "daily driver."


----------



## fairx

Still no ry4c. Sunyou shipment sucks and no tracking . dont use them if you have the choice.


----------



## FastAndClean

mbwilson111 said:


> That is really interesting.  I have only heard the UE version.  My husband @HungryPanda has a red RY4S with the silver cable and likes it but neither of us has compared.  Unfortunately he has to work this weekend so we cannot compare at the moment.
> 
> BTW, surely I am not the only one who has the RY04.  Love the shell, love the cable and I personally appreciate buds that have a more balanced sound signature.  My husband also liked it when he borrowed it.  We obviously both have too many choices so nothing becomes a "daily driver."


i have the silver cable version and the blue one, they sound different, silver cable one is very neutral with a little bit of brightness, blue one is with boosted bass and uneven mids, the bass is very strange, it sound like is forced from DSP like in some Bluetooth speakers, i assume they added second harmonic distortions to give them more bassy warmer presentation, the silver cable sound very clean and a lot better thought


----------



## Dabbaranks

FastAndClean said:


> i have the silver cable version and the blue one, they sound different, silver cable one is very neutral with a little bit of brightness, blue one is with boosted bass and uneven mids, the bass is very strange, it sound like is forced from DSP like in some Bluetooth speakers, i assume they added second harmonic distortions to give them more bassy warmer presentation, the silver cable sound very clean and a lot better thought



I only have the standard version of the RY4S ($5), maybe it’s just me but since I started my earbud journey in January, I’ve been the most impressed with these amongst my other ~$10 dollar purchases (RY4C, kube v1, kube v2, snow lotus 1.0+, my 2 year old monk+). 

I totally agree with your description, but maybe this fake dsp effect is what makes it sound more spacious, relaxed, and separated in comparison and sounds like an open set of headphones to me.


----------



## FastAndClean

Dabbaranks said:


> I totally agree with your description, but maybe this fake dsp effect is what makes it sound more spacious, relaxed, and separated in comparison and sounds like an open set of headphones to me.


sure it is fun with some music, but it sounds fake, the silver cable one sound real, is not forced, the bass is not a lot but is clean


----------



## assassin10000

The leather punch set (3,4,5,6 & 8mm) I ordered for modding earbud foams showed up today. They work great.

Regular/donut size hole is 6mm. I've tried 3 & 4mm and ended liking how the 4mm turned out. If I was doing multiple hole foams 3mm or maybe even 2/2.5mm would work better.


----------



## exavolt (Mar 30, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> The leather punch set (3,4,5,6 & 8mm) I ordered for modding earbud foams showed up today. They work great.
> 
> Regular/donut size hole is 6mm. I've tried 3 & 4mm and ended liking how the 4mm turned out. If I was doing multiple hole foams 3mm or maybe even 2/2.5mm would work better.


Great idea. I can't find noticeable differences between full foam and normal donut foam so I've settled with full foams on them.

I am not sure if i want this kind of config, ACG is already bright even with full foams, but I am keeping this post for future reference.

The mod I am currently looking for for ACG is to treat the uneven mids. I can't pin point where it is, but a certain freq in the mids feel too thin.


----------



## assassin10000 (Mar 30, 2019)

exavolt said:


> Great idea. I can't find noticeable differences between full foam and normal donut foam so I've settled with full foams on them.
> 
> I am not sure if i want this kind of config, ACG is already bright even with full foams, but I am keeping this post for future reference.
> 
> The mod I am currently looking for for ACG is to treat the uneven mids. I can't pin point where it is, but a certain freq in the mids feel too thin.



How many hours do you have on yours?


I've always wondered what would happen to the bass if we opened up the 'ports' behind the driver housing on the neck between the round and rectangle portions.


Just for giggles, maybe try using the Tara Labs cascade noise burn in file on yours? I did mine at normal listening volume for several nights. It may limber up the diaphram.

I also use the Jlab burn in track initially (has periods of silence in it). I figured out how to download it and it's saved on my old phone that I use for burn in.


----------



## viatraco

It looks like Ti7 version is for mid relax lovers.


----------



## seanc6441

TI7 has mids to rival high end headphones I reckon. They are that good.

Ourart is missing a trick not designing a dual driver setup for it's TI7 and ACG.

Imagine ourart earbuds with powerful bass. Wow...


----------



## RobinFood

I've been dancing around the idea of getting the ACG for a while. I feel like even if I don't like the sound, they just look so amazingly beautiful. Are they worth it coming from the Willsound MK2 and looking for a different sound for different moods? After the shipping, they are actually pretty similarly priced.


----------



## exavolt (Mar 30, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> How many hours do you have on yours?
> 
> 
> I've always wondered what would happen to the bass if we opened up the 'ports' behind the driver housing on the neck between the round and rectangle portions.
> ...


I don't know how many hours, but I've got them months ago and I use them in rotation for my daily beaters. I might try to let them burn again.

The mids issue is not that obvious, but if I switched from, for example PK16, it's noticeable.

Yes. I kept thinking on getting some sub-millimeters drill bits for widening the ports. But I am not sure if I have the heart to drill them.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 30, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> How many hours do you have on yours?
> 
> 
> I've always wondered what would happen to the bass if we opened up the 'ports' behind the driver housing on the neck between the round and rectangle portions.
> ...


Thing is sometimes messing with the acoustic impedance of the driver by adding/removing dampening can reduce performance and add distortion especially in the bass. I don't believe the ourart earbuds have much dampening or none at all behind the driver, so the tiny openings on the shell controll all the dampening properties.

Opening it up may make the bass very sloppy, as the driver doesn't seem to be able to handle bass boost as my test with the TI7 confirmed. It physically distorts when pushed more than 2-3db.

But opening up the port slightly might be ok. It would have a slight effect on the mids I think. Any resonances around 1khz upwards my settle down slightly as you open up the cup. The bass would increase slightly but become looser as the mid bass gets a bump.


----------



## exavolt

RobinFood said:


> I've been dancing around the idea of getting the ACG for a while. I feel like even if I don't like the sound, they just look so amazingly beautiful. Are they worth it coming from the Willsound MK2 and looking for a different sound for different moods? After the shipping, they are actually pretty similarly priced.


They are very good if you can get along with the signature. Very contrast if compared to the MK2.


----------



## seanc6441

exavolt said:


> They are very good if you can get along with the signature. Very contrast if compared to the MK2.


Yeah mid centric vs slight V shape.

The mids are higher quality on the ourart buds for sure. Then again there's almost nothing that comes close to those mids.


----------



## FastAndClean

seanc6441 said:


> Then again there's almost nothing that comes close to those mids.


so true, you know i had full size headphones with amazing mids, one of the best(HE500), they are not even close to the ACG


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 30, 2019)

FastAndClean said:


> so true, you know i had full size headphones with amazing mids, one of the best(HE500), they are not even close to the ACG


Mine was the TI7 but I'm sure they have similar quality.

Best mids I've heard in earbuds are:


Ti7
Penon bs1 official/Kube V1 modded
Rose Mojito modded/Rose Masya stock (on 3-5 OI source)
Original Shozy BK/Cygnus
Actually the Masya could be bumped to #2 on the right source. It's got that ridiculous smoothness and sounds sweet and not dull at all. But on the wrong source it's way too lean and sounds overly bright. So I'll keep it at #3.


----------



## DBaldock9

Just received an email from AliExpress, saying that the Little Bear B4-X Dual Mono Tube Amp (w/Balanced 2.5mm TRRS Output), has arrived at my local Post Office.
Don't know if it's out for delivery today, or if I'll get it Monday - but I'm really looking forward to hearing my Blur, VE, K's, and Svara earbuds driven by the tubes.


----------



## FastAndClean

seanc6441 said:


> Mine was the TI7 but I'm sure they have similar quality.
> 
> Best mids I've heard in earbuds are:
> 
> ...


the mids are special, extremely open sounding, did you sold your Ti7?is not in your signature


----------



## MisterMudd

TheoS53 said:


> OK, so here's an updated list for what I'm looking at:
> 
> Vido
> Qian25
> ...


Well, I think there's about 30 other buds you need to include.............. kidding.


----------



## jibberish

Been listening to the sr2 16 ohm a lot this week, they really do have exceptional soundstage.  I'm listening to a really well mixed live album right now and the presentation of the different band members across the stage is so good.


----------



## assassin10000

@exavolt I ended up dropping 2db at 4k on my EQ. Perhaps it's not lacking but boosted to your hearing due to resonance of your ear canal somewhere.


----------



## jibberish

I caved and ordered the EBX while it is on sale.  And as a plus, I got a shipping notification for it just a couple of hours after I submitted the order, love to see that


----------



## DBaldock9

assassin10000 said:


> The leather punch set (3,4,5,6 & 8mm) I ordered for modding earbud foams showed up today. They work great.
> 
> Regular/donut size hole is 6mm. I've tried 3 & 4mm and ended liking how the 4mm turned out. If I was doing multiple hole foams 3mm or maybe even 2/2.5mm would work better.



Earlier today, I finally ordered the set of punches that have been on my AliExpress Wish List for a month or two.
.
I also ordered a replacement for the Digital Multimeter that I've been using since I went to Tech School, back in 1986.
At the end of '85, or beginning of '86, I bought a *Scope DVM-638* Multimeter.  
Here's a Scope DVM ad, from the February, 1986, Radio Electronics Magazine (the DVM-638 is the $80 model) -
.

 
.
.
The replacement is the *Uni-T UT181A*, True RMS Data Logging Multimeter, with a 60,000 counts display - 
.




.
I also got a nice *Cleqee P1600E* 15-in-1 Multimeter Probe Test Leads Kit - that should make it much easier to probe small objects, like earbud drivers and 2.5mm & 3.5mm plugs -
.




.


----------



## McCol

Fot years I have been an IEM type of guy!!

A few months ago I bought a few different sets of earbuds as listed in my signature.  Out of the those the Moonbuds Nightshade are probably my favorite along with the Samsara K 300.  These were bought at reasonable prices, the K300 were from a memebr here and the Moonbuds were an early pre order offer so got a fair discount.  

Now my question is this, what other earbuds should I look at that can rival or surpass those models at reasonable prices?  I've got a Blur earbud that sounds really good but I don't think it competes with the Moonbud, also the Toneking 400 is good but just seems to lack a certain something, not got the depth that the others have.

I've been looking at the Smabat in the aliexpress sale and curious if it can reach the kind of prerformance of my other earbuds.

It's a real vast world of choice in the earbud section!!!


----------



## doggiemom

DBaldock9 said:


> .
> I also got a nice *Cleqee P1600E* 15-in-1 Multimeter Probe Test Leads Kit - that should make it much easier to probe small objects, like earbud drivers and 2.5mm & 3.5mm plugs -
> .


Where did you get this?  Will they fit an Agilent/Keysight DVM?  I've been looking for a set with the really thin probes for work.

To keep this (vaguely) on topic:  I found the VUNBUD that I thought I left in a hotel!  I had put them in a purse.  I never carry a purse unless I am travelling or going somewhere in warm weather so can't have my wallet and keys in a jacket..... never thought to check there, but the 75 degree weather made me pull out the purse for the first time in a month, and there they were, safe and sound in their case.


----------



## DBaldock9

doggiemom said:


> Where did you get this?  Will they fit an Agilent/Keysight DVM?  I've been looking for a set with the really thin probes for work.
> 
> To keep this (vaguely) on topic:  I found the VUNBUD that I thought I left in a hotel!  I had put them in a purse.  I never carry a purse unless I am travelling or going somewhere in warm weather so can't have my wallet and keys in a jacket..... never thought to check there, but the 75 degree weather made me pull out the purse for the first time in a month, and there they were, safe and sound in their case.



The same place that a lot of our Ch-Fi earbuds come from, AliExpress  -
.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/P16...k-multimeters-rod-test-suite/32677855285.html


----------



## groucho69

MisterMudd said:


> Well, I think there's about 30 other buds you need to include.............. kidding.



Ah common man...at least 50.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 30, 2019)

FastAndClean said:


> the mids are special, extremely open sounding, did you sold your Ti7?is not in your signature


It developed a rattle by my own fault. I was using +4 or 5db bass boost to get some deep bass but these drivers can't handle it. Eventually it begin to rattle and the damage was irreversible so it was too late to save. RIP!

I should have just kept them bass light or add only a few db of boosting and accept that they are not bass earbuds. But after hearing the gorgeous mids I wanted the full package of lush mids, warm full bass and smooth highs.

I like many sound signatures but if certain frequencies are missing it doesn't sound as good to me. Because you will miss elements to certain songs. So as nice as the TI7 is, you do miss out on a lot of low bass detail.

That's why the kube v1 mods are showing so much potential. The mids are high quality but the bass and highs are very good too. But of course I haven't made any progress lately because ive been off earbuds for awhile.

But I can say the kube V1 modded sounded like my TO600 but more open and better sub bass. And the 600 is a GOOD earbud, just lacking some soundstage width because if it's closed back design.

Infact I think the kube mids could just edge out the 600 if I kept working on the tuning. But variances between kube units could mean different pairs will sound different in tonality slightly.


----------



## assassin10000

seanc6441 said:


> It developed a rattle by my only fault. I was using +4 or 5db bass boost to get some deep bass but these drivers can't handle it. Eventually it begin to rattle and the damage was irreversible so it was too late to save. RIP!
> 
> I should have just kept them bass light or add only a few db of boosting and accept that they are not bass earbuds. But after hearing the gorgeous mids I wanted the full package of lush mids, warm full bass and smooth highs.
> 
> ...



Ouch. Did you ask about cost to repair on them?


----------



## seanc6441

assassin10000 said:


> Ouch. Did you ask about cost to repair on them?


No because I bought them second hand but in otherwise perfect condition.

I'm not too distraught. I'll just await ourarts first dual driver


----------



## assassin10000

@seanc6441 Well, since the driver is damaged... do you think you'd be able to take it apart and see what it's like inside? Just curious.


----------



## HungryPanda

doggiemom said:


> Where did you get this?  Will they fit an Agilent/Keysight DVM?  I've been looking for a set with the really thin probes for work.
> 
> To keep this (vaguely) on topic:  I found the VUNBUD that I thought I left in a hotel!  I had put them in a purse.  I never carry a purse unless I am travelling or going somewhere in warm weather so can't have my wallet and keys in a jacket..... never thought to check there, but the 75 degree weather made me pull out the purse for the first time in a month, and there they were, safe and sound in their case.


 I'm so glad you found them


----------



## Jsingh4

Anybody has both k's  k600 and Smabat ST-10,
and can compare both.
Or if someone knows a better one in same price range.


----------



## FastAndClean

seanc6441 said:


> It developed a rattle by my own fault. I was using +4 or 5db bass boost to get some deep bass but these drivers can't handle it. Eventually it begin to rattle and the damage was irreversible so it was too late to save. RIP!
> 
> I should have just kept them bass light or add only a few db of boosting and accept that they are not bass earbuds. But after hearing the gorgeous mids I wanted the full package of lush mids, warm full bass and smooth highs.
> 
> ...


agree, the bass is their weak point, rolled off, is kind of fast but lacks low bass, i use mine without EQ, the driver is not moving a lot, is stiff driver with titanium coating, i just use them with vocals and acoustic music


----------



## jogawag

DBaldock9 said:


> The same place that a lot of our Ch-Fi earbuds come from, AliExpress  -
> .
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/P16...k-multimeters-rod-test-suite/32677855285.html


Can I use this product to measure the impedance of the driver (speaker unit)?
Also, is there a cheaper product for that?


----------



## Bartig

Just joined this thread last week, but what a nice, friendly group this is! Love it.


----------



## doldoy (Mar 31, 2019)

Hello, for anyone who own Ve Monk Lite (the standard 40 ohm), do you hear some kind of beep sound or high pitch sound on the left earpiece in this video below?

In that video, the high pitch sound starts to show up on around 00:00-00:01 immediately when the person talks, it happens in many places on the video when the person is talking. The high pitch notes never show up on non-vocal sound.

The interesting thing is the high pitch note on the left earpiece only shows up if I wear both earpieces, wearing only left earpiece doesn't produce the issue.

This same phenomenon also happens on my another earbud Toneking TP16, but the high pitch sound is much less louder on that video, however in another video it sounds louder. Can be said the issue in Toneking is less severe than ve monk lite. My other earbuds like ve monk plus, vido, TY HI-Z, yincrow x6 don't have this high pitch note issue.


----------



## mbwilson111

Jsingh4 said:


> Anybody has both k's  k600 and Smabat ST-10,
> and can compare both.
> Or if someone knows a better one in same price range.



The ST-10 is very new.  The only person so far that I know of who has them is @ClieOS .  Some including myself have ordered during the sale.  Mine have not yet shipped... only shows that an order was created and I do have a tracking number.    Because my husband @HungryPanda has the k's600 he probably will be curious to compare them but no idea when that might be.


----------



## Bartig (Mar 31, 2019)

First of the bunch has arrived. First impression: sounds smooth and airy. Good!


----------



## wskl

doldoy said:


> Hello, for anyone who own Ve Monk Lite (the standard 40 ohm), do you hear some kind of beep sound or high pitch sound on the left earpiece in this video below?
> 
> In that video, the high pitch sound starts to show up on around 00:00-00:01 immediately when the person talks, it happens in many places on the video when the person is talking. The high pitch notes never show up on non-vocal sound.
> 
> ...




No high pitch sound detected, I listened to 3 mins of the video.


----------



## doldoy

wskl said:


> No high pitch sound detected, I listened to 3 mins of the video.


ah ok, I guess my ear is having sensitivity over the high note produced by the earbuds.


----------



## seanc6441 (Mar 31, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> @seanc6441 Well, since the driver is damaged... do you think you'd be able to take it apart and see what it's like inside? Just curious.


Already did 

Driver has no tuning paper, the back cavity is about 50% filled with silicone sealant over the mmcx, the box section at the back is mostly full of silicone.

For such a design the sound is remarkably 'open'.

Driver itself is slightly smaller than a pk earbud driver. Titanium diagraphm.

As you can see from the outside, it's recessed into the housing considerably which is more common in headphones than earbuds. Most earbuds don't sound good with the driver that far away. These are surprisingly full and correct sounding for such a depth to the driver to ear position. Not to mention how open the front cover is. Most earbud drivers need the extra front dampening to control resonances and control the treble I imagine, these just sound good with the pure driver producing a great tonality.

So in conclusion, these could be housed in a much smaller housing in theory, I guess the silicone provides a small degree of reflection dampening, but it's mostly there to fill the cavity for tuning I would believe.


----------



## Jsingh4

mbwilson111 said:


> The ST-10 is very new.  The only person so far that I know of who has them is @ClieOS .  Some including myself have ordered during the sale.  Mine have not yet shipped... only shows that an order was created and I do have a tracking number.    Because my husband @HungryPanda has the k's600 he probably will be curious to compare them but no idea when that might be.





mbwilson111 said:


> The ST-10 is very new.  The only person so far that I know of who has them is @ClieOS .  Some including myself have ordered during the sale.  Mine have not yet shipped... only shows that an order was created and I do have a tracking number.    Because my husband @HungryPanda has the k's600 he probably will be curious to compare them but no idea when that might be.



Thanks for your response so I am guessing @ClieOS doesn't have k600.
Smabat looks good less impedance, k600 will be hard to drive.


----------



## toear

Bartig said:


> First of the bunch has arrived. First impression: sounds smooth and airy. Good!


I love these buds... Bass is a tad pushed towards the mid vs sub but sounds stage, placement, and depth are amazing


----------



## TheoS53

Just placed an order...16 buds in total.

I must admit that this is my first time ordering from AE, so not quite sure how the process goes. I see that the current status is "Awaiting Shipment" and then a processing time below that. For the one shop it's just under 5 days and for the other shop it's just under 9 days. Is that really how long it takes just to process the orders?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

TheoS53 said:


> Just placed an order...16 buds in total.
> 
> I must admit that this is my first time ordering from AE, so not quite sure how the process goes. I see that the current status is "Awaiting Shipment" and then a processing time below that. For the one shop it's just under 5 days and for the other shop it's just under 9 days. Is that really how long it takes just to process the orders?


Not usually, but I have had shops take the timer down to within an hour of expiring. Most shops ship within a day or two usually. I just ordered 11 items from 6 different shops and all of them shipped within 2 days. I just go into it with a mindset that its going to be a month before I see what I ordered. Have never waited more then a month for anything from AE. One tactic used quite frequently by sellers is to take your money with no stock, and then mark your item shipped before expiration time. Makes it very difficult to do anything but wait until the 50 day timer runs out.


----------



## FastAndClean

TheoS53 said:


> Is that really how long it takes just to process the orders?


it depends if they have stock or not, also how many purchases they have on the same product, usually they ship the next day


----------



## TheoS53

BadReligionPunk said:


> One tactic used quite frequently by sellers is to take your money with no stock, and then mark your item shipped before expiration time. Makes it very difficult to do anything but wait until the 50 day timer runs out.



Oh wow that's messed up.



FastAndClean said:


> it depends if they have stock or not, also how many purchases they have on the same product, usually they ship the next day



I actually just saw, AE has some sort of shipment deal for orders that are sent to the UAE (Dubai) called AliExpress Direct. Get's sent to my door rather than through the post. That's super awesome since i HATE having to deal with any part of the postal system.


----------



## seanc6441

TheoS53 said:


> Just placed an order...16 buds in total.
> 
> I must admit that this is my first time ordering from AE, so not quite sure how the process goes. I see that the current status is "Awaiting Shipment" and then a processing time below that. For the one shop it's just under 5 days and for the other shop it's just under 9 days. Is that really how long it takes just to process the orders?


Usually it processes in a few minutes to a few hours. Wait a few days at most before contacting the seller.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Mar 31, 2019)

Jsingh4 said:


> Thanks for your response so I am guessing @ClieOS doesn't have k600.
> Smabat looks good less impedance, k600 will be hard to drive.



I think ClieOS has everything    Look at the first post at the beginning of this thread (that he started) and continue to scroll down the page.  Anyone who has never done so needs to!


----------



## jibberish

So yesterday I mentioned the sr2 16 ohm buds here.  Nearly of my listening with them to date has been via my Radsone ES100.  Everything so far had given me the impression that it was a fairly dark sounding earbud that had exaggerated treble roll-off, which isn't my favorite signature, but the stellar sound stage and good clarity in the mids made that a trade-off worth taking.

Today I'm using them plugged directly into my phone's headphone jack while recharging the ES100, and I'm shocked to find that sr2 sounds far better with this source.  It's confusing, with literally all of my IEMs the ES100 is a much better source than the phone's jack, I don't have a v30 or other "audiophile grade phone". But yeah, now the sr2 has plenty of treble extension, along with all the other great attributes. Quick tests pairing with various other sources in my house like my desktop DAC headphone output or my a/v receiver output shows that the muted treble performance with the ES100 was the outlier.

sr2 seem to be truly excellent for my ears. I don't particularly like the feel of the cable, but that's a minor quibble for the price range. I still can't figure out why they don't pair well with my ES100, but whatevs, I'll just enjoy them plugged into more stationary sources, heh.


----------



## seanc6441

jibberish said:


> So yesterday I mentioned the sr2 16 ohm buds here.  Nearly of my listening with them to date has been via my Radsone ES100.  Everything so far had given me the impression that it was a fairly dark sounding earbud that had exaggerated treble roll-off, which isn't my favorite signature, but the stellar sound stage and good clarity in the mids made that a trade-off worth taking.
> 
> Today I'm using them plugged directly into my phone's headphone jack while recharging the ES100, and I'm shocked to find that sr2 sounds far better with this source.  It's confusing, with literally all of my IEMs the ES100 is a much better source than the phone's jack, I don't have a v30 or other "audiophile grade phone". But yeah, now the sr2 has plenty of treble extension, along with all the other great attributes. Quick tests pairing with various other sources in my house like my desktop DAC headphone output or my a/v receiver output shows that the muted treble performance with the ES100 was the outlier.
> 
> sr2 seem to be truly excellent for my ears. I don't particularly like the feel of the cable, but that's a minor quibble for the price range. I still can't figure out why they don't pair well with my ES100, but whatevs, I'll just enjoy them plugged into more stationary sources, heh.


Maybe burn in too? These buds might be one of the few that are truly effected by burn in.

Try them again on the earstudio to see if it returns to a darker sound sig.


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> *I think ClieOS has everything *   Look at the first post at the beginning of this thread (that he started) and continue to scroll down the page.  Anyone who has never done so needs to!



And every cool short mmcx cable known to mankind lol.


----------



## Carrow

Got any recommendations for balanced buds I could look into, anyone? I have a Fiio X5iii now, it's got balanced output so they're an option!


----------



## HungryPanda

Linsoul DTM come either A8 16 ohm or PK1 150 ohm have mmcx sockets so you can use any cable you like


----------



## HungryPanda

I received the Remax Clear 305M today and plugged them and thought these are really crap, did a polarity check and found they were out of phase. I popped off the right driver and switched the wires. Now they sound really good, full bass but a little on the bright side. Burn in time.


----------



## darmanastartes

Having to take a few days off from using IEMs, broke out my favorite of the few pairs of earbuds that I have.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Mar 31, 2019)

Nice pic. I have also spent the day loving my Emx500, with my new toy DAP putting it through its paces. BTW, I put new foams on em, and its just a reminder how new foams can bring new life into earbuds.


----------



## assassin10000

Got my sub $3 clear RY4S in a few days ago. Got about 100hrs burn in, because why not? (50 hrs each of jlab & tara labs) 

They sound good and have a warm signature.
Decently deep bass with good 'slam' to it. The bass does bleed a bit or the upper bass is a bit more emphasized than I like (125-250hz area). 
Ok mids that aren't either too recessed or forward. 
Treble is also ok, just missing a bit of extension. 

The cable is microphonic but I knew that when I ordered it.

 


Unfortunately, I think my first jump back into earbuds with the Ourart ACG spoiled me. It just doesn't have the clarity/transparancy I've grown to really like. Looks like I may need to stay away from the ultra budget earbuds.


----------



## Mad Max

Any Hifiman ES100 love?  ;]


----------



## exavolt (Apr 1, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> Got my sub $3 clear RY4S in a few days ago. Got about 100hrs burn in, because why not? (50 hrs each of jlab & tara labs)
> 
> They sound good and have a warm signature.
> Decently deep bass with good 'slam' to it. The bass does bleed a bit or the upper bass is a bit more emphasized than I like (125-250hz area).
> ...


Thanks for the tips for EQ-ing the ACG.

The one with similar signature to ACG but smoother without losing much details and more all-rounder (the ACG is best with acoustics to me) is the PK16. Thanks to @chinmie for recommending it.


----------



## j4100

Can't believe I resisted all temptation to add to the earbud collection. Not even the smabat. Not like I'm short of earbuds though. K's 64 being my workplace dailies, currently in use.


----------



## subwoof3r

Interested to give a try to those *K's 64 *
Where do you guys bought them? (seems like there is a 2017 version in **** store, and a normal one, not sure which one to buy if they sounds different)
Many thanks in advance


----------



## j4100

subwoof3r said:


> Interested to give a try to those *K's 64 *
> Where do you guys bought them? (seems like there is a 2017 version in **** store, and a normal one, not sure which one to buy if they sounds different)
> Many thanks in advance



I bought mine in 2017 from Jim at NiceHCK.


----------



## RuFrost

Quitting audiophilia, selling all my earbuds; ve zen black, k'black ling 2.5mm, monks v1, to400s...
Pm me if interested))


----------



## Bartig

A new challenger appeared!


----------



## waynes world

BadReligionPunk said:


> Nice pic. I have also spent the day loving my Emx500, with my new toy DAP putting it through its paces. BTW, I put new foams on em, and its just a reminder how new foams can bring new life into earbuds.



What are the gizmos?


----------



## TheoS53

Bartig said:


> A new challenger appeared!



And, what's the verdict? How would you say it compares to some of your other buds and IEMs?


----------



## toear

Bartig said:


> A new challenger appeared!


Those are two of my favorites along with the Samsara's.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Kube v1 (2x), Kuve v2, Sabia arrived today.

I'm very happy with my wize decision to buy 2 kube v1. They are amazing. I need to recable or put mmcx on both (probably mmcx). Sabia is superb out of the box! Still waiting Ann200.

Do anybody knows anything about the bellow JVC (Japan Victor)? I always see a lot of them in Phi groups...


----------



## Bartig

TheoS53 said:


> And, what's the verdict? How would you say it compares to some of your other buds and IEMs?


Either too early to tell or top close to call. Only listened to classical music so far - and both delivered great!


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Does anybody have heard anything about the bellow?

Bejo V2
ABnormal Duotres 1.5
JVC (Japan Victor)
Loebuds 32ohms
Imperial Audio


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Folks,

Any news about @golov17? Almost one month without any message. I sent a pm without any return. I hope he is on vacation.


----------



## mbwilson111

Marcos Fontana said:


> Folks,
> 
> Any news about @golov17? Almost one month without any message. I sent a pm without any return. I hope he is on vacation.



I saw him post some photos on EA a few days ago.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

mbwilson111 said:


> I saw him post some photos on EA a few days ago.


Good news. Perhaps he is really on vacation... I found him on facebook! Last message in 03/27. I believe he is well


----------



## wskl

Marcos Fontana said:


> Kube v1 (2x), Kuve v2, Sabia arrived today.
> 
> I'm very happy with my wize decision to buy 2 kube v1. They are amazing. I need to recable or put mmcx on both (probably mmcx). Sabia is superb out of the box! Still waiting Ann200.
> 
> Do anybody knows anything about the bellow JVC (Japan Victor)? I always see a lot of them in Phi groups...



For the JVC/Victor earbuds, go to post #39016, there is a seller from Malaysia.


----------



## Jsingh4

Marcos Fontana said:


> Kube v1 (2x), Kuve v2, Sabia arrived today.
> 
> I'm very happy with my wize decision to buy 2 kube v1. They are amazing. I need to recable or put mmcx on both (probably mmcx). Sabia is superb out of the box! Still waiting Ann200.
> 
> Do anybody knows anything about the bellow JVC (Japan Victor)? I always see a lot of them in Phi groups...


What is that MMCX? Did you make it?


----------



## nick n

Marcos Fontana said:


> Kube v1 (2x), Kuve v2, Sabia arrived today.
> 
> I'm very happy with my wize decision to buy 2 kube v1. They are amazing. I need to recable or put mmcx on both (probably mmcx). Sabia is superb out of the box! Still waiting Ann200.



Very glad you managed to get an ANN N200 while you could.
It's not likely these will be available in an auction like that again.
It will be well worth the wait especially if you are happy with the Kube V1 and Sabia quality levels.


----------



## Jsingh4

Hi so I didn't get anything this time from Ali as I am confused I wanted to get Smabat ST 10 but not how are they since they are new so less reviews @HungryPanda suggested K's K600 but it will need an amp to drive 600 ohms I would like a portable amp because sometimes I like to move my body with the tunes so something i can keep in my pocket.

Or if someone has any better suggestion, would like to hear from @ClieOS too.
I predfer little laid-back not too much, not too forward, sweet detailed, neutral, live natural sound.


----------



## subwoof3r

*Smabat ST-10* ordered!! 
(will make a comparison with EBX)


----------



## 424358

Bartig said:


> First of the bunch has arrived. First impression: sounds smooth and airy. Good!


What are these??


----------



## TheoS53

misterchao said:


> What are these??



Qian69


----------



## ClieOS

EarStudio ES100 balanced output to ST-10 = what a treat!


----------



## Jsingh4

ClieOS said:


> EarStudio ES100 balanced output to ST-10 = what a treat!




Can you compare ST-10 with K's k600?


----------



## ClieOS

Jsingh4 said:


> Can you compare ST-10 with K's k600?



Don't have a K600 to compare to.


----------



## TheoS53

OK, so my bud journey has officially kicked off. 

I see part of my AE order has shipped, but I got impatient and bought some earbuds locally to keep me occupied whilst I wait for the AE stuff to arrive.

I got the Edifier H180 and the Sony MDR-E9LP....All I can say is WOW the H180 is in a totally different league to the Sony. I'm already liking the H180 considerably more than the Monk+. Feels better better balanced, more extended both down below and in the treble region.

The Sony is, to be perfectly honest, a bit of a joke, really. I like the form, but the sound genuinely does remind me of an older AM radio. You get some upper mids and treble, but the actual fullness of the music seems to be totally MIA. Really looking forward to seeing how all the other buds I ordered stack up to the H180


----------



## HungryPanda

Edifier do have some very good sounding earbuds. On another note I disassembled my K's K200 as it sounded really bad. I put the drivers in new MX500 shells with a new cable and whilst doing so found that one of the drivers was wound out of phase ( hence the poor performance). Now that has been sorted they now sound very good indeed. Thunderous bass and really clear highs. I'm glad I did it.


----------



## mbwilson111

ClieOS said:


> Don't have a K600 to compare to.



ah ha... so you do not have EVERYTHING like I thought


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Jsingh4 said:


> What is that MMCX? Did you make it?


Not yet, but I plan to convert almost all my earbuds to mmcx. I plan to make my mmcx cables also, one short for Es100 and one long for home use.


----------



## toear

HungryPanda said:


> Edifier do have some very good sounding earbuds. On another note I disassembled my K's K200 as it sounded really bad. I put the drivers in new MX500 shells with a new cable and whilst doing so found that one of the drivers was wound out of phase ( hence the poor performance). Now that has been sorted they now sound very good indeed. Thunderous bass and really clear highs. I'm glad I did it.


Cool!  So do you like the mx500 shells or the toneking? How much of a difference did you find it made?  I just put some Vido drivers into a pair of my old **** PT15 shells. The shells were modified so I'm just doing a bit of testing and tuning. I'm not the shells have such a big influence on the sound... some but I think this says a lot about driver performance. (...but then I think I have modded all the Vidos I have opened...will have to open up a fresh pair just for A/Bing...)


----------



## Jsingh4

Marcos Fontana said:


> Not yet, but I plan to convert almost all my earbuds to mmcx. I plan to make my mmcx cables also, one short for Es100 and one long for home use.



BTW where can I buy that cable?


----------



## Ira Delphic

HungryPanda said:


> Edifier do have some very good sounding earbuds. On another note I disassembled my K's K200 as it sounded really bad. I put the drivers in new MX500 shells with a new cable and whilst doing so found that one of the drivers was wound out of phase ( hence the poor performance). Now that has been sorted they now sound very good indeed. Thunderous bass and really clear highs. I'm glad I did it.



Is there a way to do a test without opening the shell? How about setting the source to mono and comparing the result using the tone generator in my signature? I have a handful of earbuds that sound like ****, maybe out of phase?


----------



## HungryPanda (Apr 2, 2019)

toear said:


> Cool!  So do you like the mx500 shells or the toneking? How much of a difference did you find it made?  I just put some Vido drivers into a pair of my old **** PT15 shells. The shells were modified so I'm just doing a bit of testing and tuning. I'm not the shells have such a big influence on the sound... some but I think this says a lot about driver performance. (...but then I think I have modded all the Vidos I have opened...will have to open up a fresh pair just for A/Bing...)


 I didn't change the tuning foam that was on the driver so I think the shell cavity of the MX500 shell has increased the bass from the MX760 shell


----------



## HungryPanda

Ira Delphic said:


> Is there a way to do a test without opening the shell? How about setting the source to mono and comparing the result using the tone generator in my signature? I have a handful of earbuds that sound like ****, maybe out of phase?


 I use this page to test my earbuds. At the bottom of the page the the binaural test the door knocks should be wide apart, if they are just close to each ear there is a problem.

https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php


----------



## Merlin-PT (Apr 2, 2019)

I use this phase test:

""In phase" should be heard in the center, while "out of phase" should come out of each speaker separately. If vice versa, invert the red and black wires on one of the speakers."


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Jsingh4 said:


> BTW where can I buy that cable?


The Phi guys do. I don't know if they sell. I will buy the wires, sleeves, jacks, etc and I will do my own cables. Because of this that I will try to convert almost everything that I have to mmcx. Some nice examples:


----------



## kurtextrem

I would be highly interested in a comparison of TO600 vs Rose Masya Pro... Hmmm


----------



## waynes world

ClieOS said:


> EarStudio ES100 balanced output to ST-10 = what a treat!


----------



## viatraco

Did anybody try Moondrop VX Pro ? I cannot find reviews.


----------



## jogawag (Apr 3, 2019)

viatraco said:


> Did anybody try Moondrop VX Pro ? I cannot find reviews.




・ The shell is made of metal and is firm. As it is a small, I recommend wearing it with the included rubber ring and foam ear pad.
・ The main impression of the sound is characterized by a natural wide sound field and an elegant treble that extends beautifully.
・ The treble range is glittering, but it does not felt cared because it has good growth of sound.
・ The mid range sounds without being particularly depressed, and this range is also characterized by the extension of the sound.
・ The bass range is a bit relaxed and firm. It sounds like a very natural sound because it produces a sound with an added spread from the Earbuds body. The bass range  is better than Liebesleid by the same manufacturer.
・ It works well with sound sources that use a large number of live instruments, as well as sound sources such as rock, pops and ballads. This Earbuds give a very natural sound, so vocals that sang well on live instrumental solos and mid-high tones will sound breathtakingly sounding.
・ If you value the sound growth and natural sounds, please try this Earbuds.


----------



## ClieOS

viatraco said:


> Did anybody try Moondrop VX Pro ? I cannot find reviews.



Fairly neutral and slightly bright sounding. This would have been my 2nd (and safe) recommendation for those who want an earbud for classical but not sure about the Mojito (*lately I am more incline to recommend ST-10 as 2nd choice). Note that VX Pro has been discontinued and replaced by VX Classic, which has a different sound signature that is on the warmer and sweeter side.


----------



## Tweeters

Is anyone selling an OurArt ACG by chance? I'm thinking of buying but wanted to check if anyone in the US is selling


----------



## Bartig (Apr 2, 2019)

Another arrival!

Wow, how do you guys separate these from each other? 



Edit: Whoah, they all sound so nice.


----------



## FastAndClean

Tweeters said:


> Is anyone selling an OurArt ACG by chance? I'm thinking of buying but wanted to check if anyone in the US is selling


no one will sell it, once you hear those mids there is no way back


----------



## assassin10000 (Apr 2, 2019)

Any recommendations on an upgrade to the Ourart ACG (or even a sidegrade with bass)? Preferably with MMCX as well. Something with great mids/highs but actually has sub-bass and bass.

I've been looking at the EBX or maybe the new ST-10, but not too sure where to leap.


I prefer upper bass leading into lower mids (125-250hz) to be slightly less. So I think that would be well controlled bass, no bleed. So warm, mid bassy or boomy signatures aren't what I like (given my current understanding of sound signatures). I lean towards neutral or balanced and slightly bright. Perhaps even cold/analytical if I'm understanding things right.




FastAndClean said:


> no one will sell it, once you hear those mids there is no way back



Maybe one day. If there is anything out there with as good mid/highs that has bass.


----------



## TLDRonin

What are the go to choices at $30 and under? Preferably small shell


----------



## golov17

Marcos Fontana said:


> Good news. Perhaps he is really on vacation... I found him on facebook! Last message in 03/27. I believe he is well


Today I turned 50 years old .. I have the right to rest from the Internet, thanks for the concern )))


----------



## golov17

Listening Vivo xplay6 with ATH-CM2000ti, not bad ))


----------



## Marcos Fontana

golov17 said:


> Today I turned 50 years old .. I have the right to rest from the Internet, thanks for the concern )))


Happy birthday!!!!


----------



## golov17




----------



## Marcos Fontana

TLDRonin said:


> What are the go to choices at $30 and under? Preferably small shell


Maybe Monk Lite? I don't know it, I have the Zen LL and it's great! Zen LL has the same shell that Monk Lite. I believe that Qian39 uses the same shell type of Monk Lite. PK2 shell are smaller too, in this case, the SR2 tpe 16ohms.


----------



## exavolt (Apr 2, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> Any recommendations on an upgrade to the Ourart ACG (or even a sidegrade with bass)? Preferably with MMCX as well. Something with great mids/highs but actually has sub-bass and bass.
> 
> I've been looking at the EBX or maybe the new ST-10, but not too sure where to leap.


You won't find the EBX as an upgrade from ACG. It has completely different signature, less impressive in detail retrieval and transparency. You might be disappointed if you expect similar mids from the EBX.

I use both for anything but if I really want to enjoy classical, acoustics, jazz / bossa or anything which are not busy, I'd pick the ACG. I'll pick EBX if I simply don't care what I will listen to.

Nothing in my inventory has similar mids - highs as on the ACG, except PK16, but it too, has rolled-off bass. My ST-10 is still on their way to me.


----------



## ballog

HungryPanda said:


> Edifier do have some very good sounding earbuds. On another note I disassembled my K's K200 as it sounded really bad. I put the drivers in new MX500 shells with a new cable and whilst doing so found that one of the drivers was wound out of phase ( hence the poor performance). Now that has been sorted they now sound very good indeed. Thunderous bass and really clear highs. I'm glad I did it.


@HungryPanda could you give a brief explanation how you determined the driver was out of phase? Noticed on some of my earbuds that the L & R drivers were not marked similarly.


----------



## HungryPanda

I found the cable was attached correctly but the 2 drivers were wired in the opposite direction. one had + on the left side but the other had - on the left. The dot that marks + on each was in the same place.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

TLDRonin said:


> What are the go to choices at $30 and under? Preferably small shell



Panda PK2?  good sounding bud...


----------



## toear

HungryPanda said:


> I didn't change the tuning foam that was on the driver so I think the shell cavity of the MX500 shell has increased the bass from the MX760 shell


Ok thanks! Makes sense...


----------



## ClieOS

HungryPanda said:


> I found the cable was attached correctly but the 2 drivers were wired in the opposite direction. one had + on the left side but the other had - on the left. The dot that marks + on each was in the same place.



Sound like an assembly error down at the factory.


----------



## HungryPanda

ClieOS said:


> Sound like an assembly error down at the factory.


 Easily done I suppose. I get multiple drivers for my own buds and they come marked for the + and can be on either side, so they have been checked. I always use a multimeter to check cables before I use them


----------



## Marcos Fontana

A new player in earbud market? Good news!


----------



## mbwilson111

My Smabat ST-10 has shipped and I think it is now on an airplane!


----------



## audiohurric4ne

hi,newbie here. so a guy on facebook told me that he prefer his 50$ earbuds over his 200$ iem and want me to try it my self. i used to think that headphone > iem and earbuds until recently got my hands on moondrop KPE and fell in love with it   is there any earbud around 30-60$ that have the harman sound ? what earbud would u guys suggest to an earbud newbie ?


----------



## jogawag (Apr 3, 2019)

audiohurric4ne said:


> hi,newbie here. so a guy on facebook told me that he prefer his 50$ earbuds over his 200$ iem and want me to try it my self. i used to think that headphone > iem and earbuds until recently got my hands on moondrop KPE and fell in love with it   is there any earbud around 30-60$ that have the harman sound ? what earbud would u guys suggest to an earbud newbie ?



If you are looking for Earbuds that have a balanced sound over the whole range and a fine treble around that price, I recommend "Moondrop VX Pro" first.
However, if you can not find "Moondrop VX Pro", which was discontinued a little while ago, I recommend "Shozy Cygnus", which is a bit more expensive.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 3, 2019)

audiohurric4ne said:


> hi,newbie here. so a guy on facebook told me that he prefer his 50$ earbuds over his 200$ iem and want me to try it my self. i used to think that headphone > iem and earbuds until recently got my hands on moondrop KPE and fell in love with it   is there any earbud around 30-60$ that have the harman sound ? what earbud would u guys suggest to an earbud newbie ?


No earbuds will have harmann curve sub bass. It's almost impossible with the lack of seal. There's some earbuds that perform admirably in sub bass but it will follow more closely to the diffuse field neutral sub bass or slightly less.

For the rest of the frequency range it's very possible. I think member ClieOS is the best to ask as he has many IEM's/Earbuds and can probably best say which is most neutral.

I think you'd have to spend closer to $80- 120 (like the new smabat st-10 which clieos considers very neutral) and boost the bass region a few db to get a desirable result. Or look for the most bassy earbuds around thar also have good tonal balance in the mids and highs, because most earbuds are very light below 50hz by harmann curve standards.

Failing that, the closest I've heard to neutral is my modified Kube V2 ($8) or modified Rose Mojito ($220). So price doesn't really equate to how balanced-neutral an earbud will sound.


----------



## Bartig

Really impressed by the Remax RM-303. Excellent instrument placement, good amount of detail, sweet bass - sub bass even - and a clear sound.

Six dollar! How?!


----------



## mbwilson111

Bartig said:


> Really impressed by the Remax RM-303. Excellent instrument placement, good amount of detail, sweet bass - sub bass even - and a clear sound.
> 
> Six dollar! How?!



I know... I love it.  Comfortable as well.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Folks,

This is a bit of topic, but I need to share with you. I bought a battery for my Galaxy Note 4 (my old music player and my main mobile) from AliExpress. I changed the battery and in few minutes, it burned my cell phone (the main board). I didn't check the battery voltage prior to install it. From now on, I will check all earbuds and everything that come from China prior to plug in my amps. I don't know for example what could happen with my amps if I connect an earbud with short circuit. I believe that in the worst case, it can burn my amp. I used to love my Note 4 and now it has gone with all my contacts, photos, documents, etc... Some things only China can do for you.






RIP Note 4.


----------



## MisterMudd

BadReligionPunk said:


> Nice pic. I have also spent the day loving my Emx500, with my new toy DAP putting it through its paces. BTW, I put new foams on em, and its just a reminder how new foams can bring new life into earbuds.


Wow! I still have my Fiio E6 and it still works great, and still love it.


----------



## HungryPanda

Bartig said:


> Really impressed by the Remax RM-303. Excellent instrument placement, good amount of detail, sweet bass - sub bass even - and a clear sound.
> 
> Six dollar! How?!


 I know I was quite impressed, great sound for so little money


----------



## waynes world

audiohurric4ne said:


> hi,newbie here. so a guy on facebook told me that he prefer his 50$ earbuds over his 200$ iem and want me to try it my self. i used to think that headphone > iem and earbuds until recently got my hands on moondrop KPE and fell in love with it   is there any earbud around 30-60$ that have the harman sound ? what earbud would u guys suggest to an earbud newbie ?





seanc6441 said:


> No earbuds will have harmann curve sub bass. It's almost impossible with the lack of seal. There's some earbuds that perform admirably in sub bass but it will follow more closely to the diffuse field neutral sub bass or slightly less.
> 
> For the rest of the frequency range it's very possible. I think member ClieOS is the best to ask as he has many IEM's/Earbuds and can probably best say which is most neutral.
> 
> ...



I still just say... just get the darned Yincrow RW-9!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

MisterMudd said:


> Wow! I still have my Fiio E6 and it still works great, and still love it.


Was my first amp. Bought originally to pair with my iPod Video to power some Sony V6 headphones. LOL
Then something went very wrong and I ended up here at Headfi and a closet full of stuff I didn't need. HAHA! 

Yea the Fiio is nice. Was using it as a comparison to show how small that DAP was. The DAP(Mahdi M260) already outputs 80mw at 32 so doesn't really need the Fiio. 

However I will be cremated with that amp and my ipod, best believe that.


----------



## MelodyMood

HungryPanda said:


> I know I was quite impressed, great sound for so little money


How do you compare this with TP16 or something else? Or may be with Yincrow X6?


----------



## Carrow

Carrow said:


> Got any recommendations for balanced buds I could look into, anyone? I have a Fiio X5iii now, it's got balanced output so they're an option!



Still looking for, uh, input on this - would the TY Hi-Z 32 2.5mm be worth a punt at $10?


----------



## chinmie

audiohurric4ne said:


> hi,newbie here. so a guy on facebook told me that he prefer his 50$ earbuds over his 200$ iem and want me to try it my self. i used to think that headphone > iem and earbuds until recently got my hands on moondrop KPE and fell in love with it   is there any earbud around 30-60$ that have the harman sound ? what earbud would u guys suggest to an earbud newbie ?



try the Willsound PK16. closest i have to my ER4XR. 

PT15 also have a neutralish balanced sound, but i find it grainier than the PK16. 



seanc6441 said:


> No earbuds will have harmann curve sub bass. It's almost impossible with the lack of seal.



the key is not pushing the earbuds deeper into the ear canal. that to me usually only brings out the midbass more and losing airyness. for subbass i sit them back and down toward the earlobe instead (with the grill still facing the ear canal). what the earbuds lack in seal, they have strength in vibration. that would translate to subbass delivery. of course not all earbuds can do it, but most would benefit from that positioning. 



Carrow said:


> Still looking for, uh, input on this - would the TY Hi-Z 32 2.5mm be worth a punt at $10?



for that price I'd go for the RY4S rather than TY HI-Z.


----------



## Carrow

chinmie said:


> for that price I'd go for the RY4S rather than TY HI-Z.



Does a balanced output RY4S exist?


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> try the Willsound PK16. closest i have to my ER4XR.
> 
> PT15 also have a neutralish balanced sound, but i find it grainier than the PK16.
> 
> ...


That's vibration and most deep sub bass is probably mostly distortion rather than actual sub bass frequency.

I believe it's what they call harmonic distortion?

Either way, there are some earbuds that surprise me like the bass port modded WS mk2. It's like a mini sub woofer as the mid bass tightens and the sub bass becomes prominent.

So I do think earbuds are capable of good, enjoyable sub bass. But it's simply impossible to get harmann levels from an almost non seal 15mm driver.

Even most full size 50mm drivers cannot do that without sealing leather pads.


----------



## chinmie

Carrow said:


> Does a balanced output RY4S exist?



now that i don't know 



seanc6441 said:


> That's vibration and most deep sub bass is probably mostly distortion rather than actual sub bass frequency.



subbass is mostly delivered via vibration. that's why subbass speakers needs to be put on floor level and preferably in corners to perform better. distortion is a whole different thing to subbas vibration..and you would definitely know if a signal is distorted


----------



## Mimouille

I am getting little love for my Liebesleid sale  It is a great earbud, I am just not getting comfortable fit with earbuds....


----------



## viatraco

mbwilson111 said:


> I know... I love it.  Comfortable as well.



Is this shell small as VE Lite series shells ? Especially diameter.


----------



## jogawag

viatraco said:


> Is this shell small as VE Lite series shells ? Especially diameter.



The measured outside diameter of REMAX RM-303 is about 15.5 mm.
I don't have VE Lite series, but the outer diameter of the VE Lite series is probably 16.1 mm by some site.


----------



## cocolinho

Zen LL is the worst earbuds I've ever listened to. 
Just ultra muffled. Did not have the patience to burn them in


----------



## Moonstar

I really like earbuds and the Rose Masya Pro is one of my favorite ones 

Here are my short impressions about the Rose Masya Pro* 
*
The Rose Masya Pro is a great sounding earbud that shows high clarity, transparency and detail retrieval for the price.
The spacious, open and emotional midrange of this earbud is a real highlight, which could be for sure a dream for many earbud lovers.
*
Full Review *
https://moonstarreviews.net/rose-masya-pro-review/
*
.. *and some of my favorite shots* 


 *

**


----------



## Bartig

seanc6441 said:


> That's vibration and most deep sub bass is probably mostly distortion rather than actual sub bass frequency.
> 
> I believe it's what they call harmonic distortion?
> 
> ...


It's time to try the OKCSC ZX1 it seems. Let's just call it a massive earbud. 



Moonstar said:


> I really like earbuds and the Rose Masya Pro is one of my favorite ones
> 
> Here are my short impressions about the Rose Masya Pro*
> *
> ...


I'm not buying anymore Rose products after the North Forest, which is by far the worst produced earphone I've bought. Shouty sound, unaligned logos and even a rattling element in the earpieces.


----------



## Degru (Apr 4, 2019)

Just got my K600 and Vidos.

K600... I'm not impressed, but I'm not disappointed either, I guess. Tonality is spectacular, this is the closest thing to an actual HD650/600 I've heard from another headphone. The detail resolution is also good, though I find it does falter on dense metal tracks. Bass extension is frankly a little disappointing after hearing the Yincrow X6/Vido; I was expecting this to be at least on that level, but it's kind of not. I don't get satisfying bass punch from drums and such, though it never sounds anemic overall and I guess retains its composure. The imaging and presentation I find is still very much earbud-like, and the imaging is overall worse than my HD600. It's quite difficult to drive, I did not bother adjusting volume when switching between it and HD600 on my sources. This is a bit of a hindrance for my intended use case, though, because I will not be able to listen to it directly out of my laptop at good volumes.

Switching to the Vido, it made me a little disappointed that the K600 didn't do more. This thing gets the tonality almost right, has far more satisfying bass presence, and is overall about as enjoyable as the K600, albeit with a bit less clarity and not as great detail resolution. It's definitely not a $100 jump for me. I'm honestly not sure which I'll end up using more.

If someone asked me right now which one to get, I'd say Vido because it's a far far better value.

Maybe K600 starts to shine with certain foams? I currently have the stock full foams on. I tried the included donuts and my Monk foams, and while these improved clarity, they made it a slight bit too shouty for my liking. It's also surprisingly decent with no foams at all, with rather excellent clarity but definitely a bit anemic sounding. Anybody have other recommendations?


----------



## waynes world

Degru said:


> Just got my K600 and Vidos.
> 
> K600... I'm not impressed, but I'm not disappointed either, I guess. Tonality is spectacular, this is the closest thing to an actual HD650/600 I've heard from another headphone. The detail resolution is also good, though I find it does falter on dense metal tracks. Bass extension is frankly a little disappointing after hearing the Yincrow X6/Vido; I was expecting this to be at least on that level, but it's kind of not. I don't get satisfying bass punch from drums and such, though it never sounds anemic overall and I guess retains its composure. The imaging and presentation I find is still very much earbud-like, and the imaging is overall worse than my HD600. It's quite difficult to drive, I did not bother adjusting volume when switching between it and HD600 on my sources. This is a bit of a hindrance for my intended use case, though, because I will not be able to listen to it directly out of my laptop at good volumes.
> 
> ...



What is your source? I'm sure they are intended to be used with some good amping to get them shining in all of their glory.

So, you should sell them to me for a really good price


----------



## Degru (Apr 4, 2019)

waynes world said:


> What is your source? I'm sure they are intended to be used with some good amping to get them shining in all of their glory.
> 
> So, you should sell them to me for a really good price


Tried them out of a Geekout 1000, a Fiio A5, Shanling M0, and my phone and laptop. Sound signature really didn't change much, which is expected from a 600 ohm headphone.

Actually I'm starting to like them a bit more now, it's at least an earbud that can resolve enough detail for me to be satisfied and not feel like I'm being left out, so to speak. And as I said, tonality is truly impressive. I just wouldn't have paid $100 for it if I'd heard it beforehand. Maybe $40.


----------



## waynes world

Degru said:


> Tried them out of a Geekout 1000, a Fiio A5, Shanling M0, and my phone and laptop. Sound signature really didn't change much, which is expected from a 600 ohm headphone.
> 
> Actually I'm starting to like them a bit more now, it's at least an earbud that can resolve enough detail for me to be satisfied and not feel like I'm being left out, so to speak. And as I said, tonality is truly impressive. I just wouldn't have paid $100 for it if I'd heard it beforehand. Maybe $40.



I grok. The problem for me is that cheapo buds these days are so good, that I have a bit of a hard time spending $100 on an earbud. Also, I'm cheap so I'm afraid of losing control of myself in the $100 bracket lol. Luckily I'm still extremely happy with cheapos like the Kube's, Yincrow RW-9 etc and slightly more expensive ones like the Willsound MK2's and Svara L's. Still, the likes of the Smabat's and K600's have been tormenting me and living rent free in my head for a while now!


----------



## FastAndClean




----------



## Degru

waynes world said:


> I grok. The problem for me is that cheapo buds these days are so good, that I have a bit of a hard time spending $100 on an earbud. Also, I'm cheap so I'm afraid of losing control of myself in the $100 bracket lol. Luckily I'm still extremely happy with cheapos like the Kube's, Yincrow RW-9 etc and slightly more expensive ones like the Willsound MK2's and Svara L's. Still, the likes of the Smabat's and K600's have been tormenting me and living rent free in my head for a while now!


Unpopular opinion, but, you're honestly not missing out on too much. $100 is far better spent saving up for a pair of used HD600's, which are a massive leap over K600.


----------



## assassin10000 (Apr 4, 2019)

The Leagginal 16Ω PK shell with a single vent showed up a few days ago. Gave it 70+ hrs of burn in.



This version has no right or left markings. I took a tip from @mbwilson111 and using a silver sharpie, marked the right bud inside the stem vent.


I gave it a quick listen before burn in and it was a bit grainy. That's gone away.

As I expected lows are a bit lacking for my taste but they are there. It does respond well to EQ, so I was able to get plenty of bass. Mids are ok, nothing special. Highs were quite rolled off. Way more than expected, I had to add 10db at 8k/16k, around 4db at 4k.
(Note: I do have some higher end treble hearing loss, so others will probably need 3db less than I do. I normally add 3db at 8k.)

I probably should have gone with the 32Ω which is more vocal oriented per the seller (and more mid/highs focused).


Edit: I mostly bought this to try out the fit of a PK shell. It is super comfortable and I do like it more than the more widely used MX500 shell.


----------



## Degru

I just remembered I made an EQ for the Yincrow X6 back when I still used that which hugely improved the sound. Now that I've got a Vido, I dug it out again and can confirm it sounds just as good as I remember. I honestly quite prefer it to my K600 this way. I'd love if someone would try it out and let me know what you think. Use this with Vido or Yincrow X6 with the stock thick black foams it comes with. 

Filter: ON PK Fc 4000 Hz Gain -8 dB Q 1
Filter: ON HS Fc 10000 Hz Gain 2 dB
Preamp: -2 dB


----------



## ClieOS

FastAndClean said:


>




A few fellow earbuds lovers elsewhere whom opinion I trust and do own the CM2000Ti all told me that it doesn't deserve the asking price (by a fairly long shot nonetheless). I do actually read just one guy praising it like the next coming on erji.net but he is more or less a known AT die hard fan that I won't put my trust in his words from a mile away. Don't know what's up with AT these days, but they are not quite the great earbuds maker that we used to remember.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 4, 2019)

Degru said:


> Unpopular opinion, but, you're honestly not missing out on too much. $100 is far better spent saving up for a pair of used HD600's, which are a massive leap over K600.


I hope it's not THAT much of an unpopular opinion. I've been forwarning people for awhile that the jump from good budget to mid + level earbuds is dubious at best.

The budget products get tried and tested by everyone, and only the absolute best become popular choices. Whereas with buds around $100 or over, you don't get a wide array of opinion on them, and anyone who does buy them may not be completely unbiased to say they are better than budget stuff, seeing as they just spent their money on something premium.

But there are some truly great earbuds out there in ALL price ranges. That's why I always say dont use price as a n accurate indicator for performance in earbuds (even in general audio this statement can be generally true). Best to gather opinions (hopefully of those your tastes align with).

For me personally I've gone completely into the modding route, and I believe most of these drivers are roughly at the same level of performance, some being slightly better or using different material that gives interesting sound properties, but for the most part you are paying extra for a fancy shell/cable and hopefully a refined tuning.

So to me If I hear an earbud that has potential and is reletively cheap, i know that modding it to my preference can get me to a very high level of performance reletively speaking.

To give a quick example, modded $8 kube earbud sounds tonally excellent, bass is a little on the warm and loose side but it has good quantity and extension. Mids are excellent and the treble is well refinedand extended.

Also I've modded my Rose mojito, and I have plans to mod my ks ling when possible.I'd happily listen to either, and I wouldn't be able to say one is more than 5% better than the other. I can admit that with a collection of earbuds ranging from $3-$290. It's all down to preference of sound signature and most technically seem to perform similarly.

There's some things I think technically the ling might be doing better than the kube, the mojito has dual drivers and it's an advantage with a very clean separation of bass and mids. But performance wise it's a toss up for the most part. I'd say the kube is the most neutral of the three also, with the least amount of significant FR dips and peaks. But that's just speculation.

My point is, earbuds are a niche, reletively unknown side of audio, unlike in headphones, there's more experimental type products and the market is growing. So prices can get a little crazy.

Not saying anything about the k600 because i havent heard it. But just giving you a heads up that it's a bit of a tricky market to grasp with so many new expensive earbuds being released, along with so many budget ones too.


----------



## Degru (Apr 4, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> I hope it's not THAT much of an unpopular opinion. I've been forwarning people for awhile that the jump from good budget to mid + level earbuds is dubious at best.
> 
> The budget products get tried and tested by everyone, and only the absolute best become popular choices. Whereas with buds around $100 or over, you don't get a wide array of opinion on them, and anyone who does buy them may not be completely unbiased to say they are better than budget stuff, seeing as they just spent their money on something premium.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I suppose that makes sense. The technical ability of the K600 driver isn't super impressive, but it does have really good tuning and thats why I'm not mad about what I still consider a bit of a waste of money . By unpopular opinion I'm mainly referring to all of the hype and flowery writing in reviews of the high end earbuds, and of course the bias that comes from having purchased an expensive item . Nobody likes to see their expensive purchase crap on.


----------



## seanc6441

Degru said:


> I just remembered I made an EQ for the Yincrow X6 back when I still used that which hugely improved the sound. Now that I've got a Vido, I dug it out again and can confirm it sounds just as good as I remember. I honestly quite prefer it to my K600 this way. I'd love if someone would try it out and let me know what you think. Use this with Vido or Yincrow X6 with the stock thick black foams it comes with.
> 
> Filter: ON PK Fc 4000 Hz Gain -8 dB Q 1
> Filter: ON HS Fc 10000 Hz Gain 2 dB
> Preamp: -2 dB


I find the vido tonality a bit off tbh. Low mid dip, uneven treble. Hazy imaging because of the zig zag like FR. It's got lots of modding potential but I really dont love its stock sound a lot.


----------



## Degru

seanc6441 said:


> I find the vido tonality a bit off tbh. Low mid dip, uneven treble. Hazy imaging because of the zig zag like FR. It's got lots of modding potential but I really dont love its stock sound a lot.


Well yeah, I don't either. That's why I made this eq


----------



## seanc6441

Degru said:


> Yeah, I suppose that makes sense. The technical ability of the K600 driver isn't super impressive, but it does have really good tuning and thats why I'm not mad about what I still consider a bit of a waste of money . By unpopular opinion I'm mainly referring to all of the hype and flowery writing in reviews of the high end earbuds, and of course the bias that comes from having purchased an expensive item .


The R+D isn't there until recently to produce a higher performance earbud (like truely high end stuff). Earbuds are just not popular enough.

The appeal of earbuds to me has always been the price to performance of the budget stuff, the fit and portability, and also the open sound presenation.

So I'm willing to spend a little extra on a good product that fits my exact preferences. But I won't spend crazy amounts until ive seen progress in development of better drivers and when companies start to release full specs and measurements for their high end earbuds so we know what we are getting.

Because there's lots of potential to make high end earbuds that sound amazing and can compete with high end IEMs and headphones. But the market isn't quiet there yet.


----------



## seanc6441

Degru said:


> Well yeah, I don't either. That's why I made this eq


It looks flat until 4khz though?

I'd probably want the bass tightened up too, mid bass bleeds a little into the mids.

I'd try it out but im strictly off earbuds for a few more months at least, recovering from ear issues.


----------



## Degru (Apr 4, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> It looks flat until 4khz though?
> 
> I'd probably want the bass tightened up too, mid bass bleeds a little into the mids.
> 
> I'd try it out but im strictly off earbuds for a few more months at least, recovering from ear issues.


I measured it mostly flat until a huge mountain around 4k, which made the whole thing sound far better when reduced and upper treble touched up a bit . This is obviously without any kind of ear simulation or compensation but it was still effective .


----------



## jogawag (Apr 4, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> The Leagginal 16Ω PK shell with a single vent showed up a few days ago. Gave it 70+ hrs of burn in.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The SR2 Driver needs 100-200 hours burn-in. The sound of it will be changing until 100-200 hours after.
More treble and bass may sounds.


----------



## Palash (Apr 5, 2019)

My review on ISN AUDIO RAMBO - [URL]https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/isn-audio-rambo.23669/reviews#review-21867[/URL]


----------



## Degru

Hey hang on a minute, why does K's 600, a 600 ohm earbud, measure as 500 ohms with a multimeter? Something's fishy here


----------



## TheoS53

Degru said:


> Hey hang on a minute, why does K's 600, a 600 ohm earbud, measure as 500 ohms with a multimeter? Something's fishy here



Only if you assume that the impedance is fixed, which it most often isn't. If a manufacturer states a given impedance, you don't really have any clear-cut idea if the figure is taken with no real load, or maybe when a 1kHz signal is passed through, etc.


----------



## wskl

Palash said:


> My review on ISN AUDIO RAMBO - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2725?fbclid=IwAR3z2h91arLNZvbzLVz1raae-gCHS1OdEfK40cHdDPsnMmI1iqdTUDwhIzk



Thank you for the review, but your link is incorrect, it should be
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/isn-audio-rambo.23669/reviews#review-21867


----------



## Palash

wskl said:


> Thank you for the review, but your link is incorrect, it should be
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/isn-audio-rambo.23669/reviews#review-21867


Thanks for pointing out, edited.


----------



## Grev

Asking wildly, i donmt have many earbuds but the Fiio em3, auglamour rx1 and one of the penon ones, although I really like the fiio’s “full sound” (have low end) compared to the others, are there other cheap to TOTL earbuds that have that sound? I don’t mind what price it is.


----------



## seanc6441

Degru said:


> Hey hang on a minute, why does K's 600, a 600 ohm earbud, measure as 500 ohms with a multimeter? Something's fishy here


You sure you got the k600? There's a k500 model too. Maybe the order got mixed up!

Post a picture of your unit?


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

seanc6441 said:


> Post a picture of your unit?




hey now that's a tad personal don't you think??


----------



## HungryPanda

I just measured my K600, L 566 R568   My own made 600 graphene buds measure L 590 R 593 ohms I'm an electrician and have a very accurate multimeter.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 5, 2019)

@HungryPanda also measured the 600 ohm graphene bud that he made for me... the HungryPanda  600.   Mine was 592 on one side and 595 on the other.   We both  have the same cable.   It sounds so lifelike... more like headphones.  I have only used it so far with my desktop dac/amp playing flac with fubar2000.  I have burned mine in for a few days.  I think these were made on Tuesday.


----------



## daxeohang (Apr 5, 2019)

Hi everyone, I'm looking for a budget true wireless (TWS) in-ear.
My budget is around 50$. From my googling around, some were caught my attention:
• Jlab Jbuds Air
• SoundPEAT True Free ( variant Q29 and Q32 make me confusing, I mean on the SoundPEAT page, they have only True Free version when I surf around, can not find Q29, but Q32 which leads me think only for Japan market)
• TOZO T10 (rank #6 on Amazon best seller IE headphones)
• More on TWS on Amazon best seller IE headphones list
My priority following: Sound quality > Durability > Battery > Functionality.
Additionally, I seriously consider about whether they'll fit my ears or not, but since almost of IEs allows to swap their ear-tips, I'll let it as it would be.
Sorry for my bad English, I appreciate for any advice or suggestion.

Just one more question, I'm planning to get Aune X1s 10th Anniversary for my HD6xx, are they good (near great) combos?  I also opt for Dakvoice 335se, know that tube amp brings life to HD6xx, but to do that, I have to pay more for some good tubes like Tung Sol tubes. Is it worth? Consider my sources are old HP laptop and Samsung S6, and will get a good DAC someday in near future


----------



## chinmie

daxeohang said:


> Hi everyone, I'm looking for a budget true wireless (TWS) in-ear.
> My budget is around 50$. From my googling around, some were caught my attention:
> • Jlab Jbuds Air
> • SoundPEAT True Free ( variant Q29 and Q32 make me confusing, I mean on the SoundPEAT page, they have only True Free version when I surf around, can not find Q29, but Q32 which leads me think only for Japan market)
> ...



unfortunately this is not the right thread to ask about it because this is a strictly earbuds thread.

you might like to join this thread instead 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/going-fully-wireless-iems-too-soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/ 
the folks there would be happy to answer your questions


----------



## Degru (Apr 5, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> You sure you got the k600? There's a k500 model too. Maybe the order got mixed up!
> 
> Post a picture of your unit?







I thought it was a bit weird when I first unpacked it, since all the pictures I'd seen were of a dull plastic unit with no writing, but figured it didn't matter much since it makes sense to start using same shells in production. But it also came in a nice thick black cardboard box with a black paper sleeve, not the wooden box of the K500 I saw in that one review.


----------



## HungryPanda

K's K500




 K's K600


----------



## Degru (Apr 5, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> K's K500
> 
> 
> K's K600


Hm, cable and plug look the same, but strain relief is different and mine's using the Samsara shell... what kind of packaging did it come in? Actually wait a minute, that K500 looks glossy black plastic and has the same kind of strain relief as mine... could even be mine's a K500 with a 600 cable... so confusing


----------



## HungryPanda (Apr 5, 2019)

The K600 came in a round wooden box with a serial number on the bottom. My K500 is a glossy shell with no strain relief, The K600 has matt shells


----------



## Degru (Apr 5, 2019)

This is my packaging... seemingly no serial number anywhere. Damn, if I somehow got a fake... would explain why I'm underwhelmed  Could you post a pic of your packaging?
I ordered mine from the NiceHCK page here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...371.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.13944c4dIf2xWA


----------



## HungryPanda

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...nce-600-Ohm-Earbud-Flat-Head/32824145371.html  this was the one I got.



 
and the bottom


----------



## serman005

Is there someone who could advise me on a couple of recs in under-$20 buds and possibly where to order? I read the Help and Recs board, but it just does not have as many experts on this style of bud. Thanks!


----------



## seanc6441

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> hey now that's a tad personal don't you think??


Haha you're probably right, wouldn't wanna get this thread banned or anything XD


----------



## Degru

HungryPanda said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...nce-600-Ohm-Earbud-Flat-Head/32824145371.html  this was the one I got.
> 
> 
> and the bottom



OK, something's fishy for sure. I'm gonna message the seller.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 5, 2019)

Degru said:


> Hm, cable and plug look the same, but strain relief is different and mine's using the Samsara shell... what kind of packaging did it come in? Actually wait a minute, that K500 looks glossy black plastic and has the same kind of strain relief as mine... could even be mine's a K500 with a 600 cable... so confusing


Maybe you should contact the seller. Seems like you got a mixed up product.

Although I wouldn't worry about the change of packaging. All new ks earbuds are coming in that packaging you received. My ling and LBB came in the same packaging just like yours.

It's the earbud that seems mixed up.


----------



## HungryPanda

I've never had a problem dealing with NiceHCK, worth messaging Jim


----------



## HungryPanda

serman005 said:


> Is there someone who could advise me on a couple of recs in under-$20 buds and possibly where to order? I read the Help and Recs board, but it just does not have as many experts on this style of bud. Thanks!


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4...e-MX500-style-earphone-3-5mm/32820438211.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Han...4ohms-High-impedance-Earbuds/32909943416.html


----------



## Degru (Apr 5, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> Maybe you should contact the seller. Seems like you got a mixed up product.
> 
> Although I wouldn't worry about the change of packaging. All new ks earbuds are coming in that packaging you received. My ling and LBB came in the same packaging just like yours.
> 
> It's the earbud that seems mixed up.


With parts seemingly cobbled together from two other models, that's pretty well mixed up 

Messaged NiceHCK, I'll see what they say.


----------



## serman005

HungryPanda said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4...e-MX500-style-earphone-3-5mm/32820438211.html
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Han...4ohms-High-impedance-Earbuds/32909943416.html


Thank you so very much.


----------



## waynes world

The last tracking notice for my ANN's was Mar08. And then they magically arrived today.

 

I've thrown the silver cabled ANN in my ears, and I really like what I'm hearing. I'm reaching for the hype machine key!


----------



## DBaldock9

Degru said:


> This is my packaging... seemingly no serial number anywhere. Damn, if I somehow got a fake... would explain why I'm underwhelmed  Could you post a pic of your packaging?
> I ordered mine from the NiceHCK page here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...371.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.13944c4dIf2xWA





HungryPanda said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...nce-600-Ohm-Earbud-Flat-Head/32824145371.html  this was the one I got.
> 
> 
> and the bottom



Interesting - both of your links were for the same NiceHCK sales page on AliExpress.


----------



## HungryPanda

Yes I noticed that, mine were bought over a year ago though


----------



## McCol

My Koss KDE250 arrived from Massdrop a couple of days ago.

What a strange earphone they are!

I can get a reasonable fit and when I do the bass response is pretty much second to none, however the mids and highs just don't sound right.  They lack smoothness and detail for me.  This could be down to my fit with them though.


----------



## RestUnknown

Since I honestly don't know where to start, I hope you guys can help me out.

Looking for bluetooth in ear headphones for running. Sound quality should be good and fun (i.e. perhaps more bass emphasized), the fit should of course be snug and comfortable because of the running.
Battery life is of no concern, looks don't really matter.
Budget is max of 100 euro's, it can be more but I hope around that price mark and less is of course better.
They will also be used to listen to music at home outside from time to time.
They don't need to have any functionality like picking up phone calls or changing the volume. Although changing volume might be handy, I don't see any issues with just using my phone for that.

Thanks!


----------



## seanc6441

RestUnknown said:


> Since I honestly don't know where to start, I hope you guys can help me out.
> 
> Looking for bluetooth in ear headphones for running. Sound quality should be good and fun (i.e. perhaps more bass emphasized), the fit should of course be snug and comfortable because of the running.
> Battery life is of no concern, looks don't really matter.
> ...


You'll want to find a bluetooth IEM thread as this is the earbud thread.

If you look up a couple of posts, member chinmie has given a link to said thread you are looking for.


----------



## theresanarc

Bartig said:


> Really impressed by the Remax RM-303. Excellent instrument placement, good amount of detail, sweet bass - sub bass even - and a clear sound.
> Six dollar! How?!



Oh wow these look good, I was looking for an under-$20 pair with diameter below 16mm. I have a pair of Remax IEMs and they also have fairly good sound quality. Did you get these from AE? The China 3C Brand Store seller?

Shell seems to resemble the FiiO EM3 I think but smaller looking maybe.


----------



## HungryPanda

I got all my remax earbuds from the Remax store on AE


----------



## jogawag (Apr 6, 2019)

theresanarc said:


> Oh wow these look good, I was looking for an under-$20 pair with diameter below 16mm. I have a pair of Remax IEMs and they also have fairly good sound quality. Did you get these from AE? The China 3C Brand Store seller?
> 
> Shell seems to resemble the FiiO EM3 I think but smaller looking maybe.



Remax RM 303
Yes, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/rm-303-3-5/32842980794.html


----------



## toear

jogawag said:


> Remax RM 303
> Yes, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/rm-303-3-5/32842980794.html


How do these compare to the Qian69 or ry4s? Thanks!


----------



## jogawag (Apr 6, 2019)

toear said:


> How do these compare to the Qian69 or ry4s? Thanks!



Remax RM 303: The sound quality is good for the price.
Qian69: Warm, firm bass.
RY4S: Fun with punches.
But in the long run I would recommend Yincrow RW-9.


----------



## toear

jogawag said:


> Remax RM 303: The sound quality is good for the price.
> Qian69: Warm, firm bass.
> RY4S: Fun with punches.
> But in the long run I would recommend Yincrow RW-9.


Ok thanks!  For some reason I've been avoiding picking up the rw-9... Maybe it's because I'm paying $20 cad for yet another emx500 shell...


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> I got all my remax earbuds from the Remax store on AE



One thing that's a bit odd - the Remax RM-303 is not listed in the "Remax Official Discount Store" - https://www.aliexpress.com/store/sale-items/538955.html
But, it is available on three other sites - 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Rem...h-mic-Earphone-3-5MM-AUX-For/32809423449.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Rem...mm-In-Ear-Bass-Wire-headsets/32842980794.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...TPE-Wire-Remote-Call-headset/32793436614.html


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 7, 2019)

DBaldock9 said:


> One thing that's a bit odd - the Remax RM-303 is not listed in the "Remax Official Discount Store" - https://www.aliexpress.com/store/sale-items/538955.html
> But, it is available on three other sites -
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Rem...h-mic-Earphone-3-5MM-AUX-For/32809423449.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Rem...mm-In-Ear-Bass-Wire-headsets/32842980794.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...TPE-Wire-Remote-Call-headset/32793436614.html



Because the Remax Official Discount Store sold out.


----------



## HungryPanda

I must have bought all the ones from the official store


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Folks, 

Do you know where could I find one case like this one?






This will be used for my ZoomFred Pro and my future Red Dragon. So, I need 2.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Marcos Fontana said:


> Folks,
> 
> Do you know where could I find one case like this one?
> 
> ...



That case is amazing!!


----------



## waynes world

toear said:


> Ok thanks!  For some reason I've been avoiding picking up the rw-9... Maybe it's because I'm paying $20 cad for yet another emx500 shell...



Sounds like $50CAD though!


----------



## toear

waynes world said:


> Sounds like $50CAD though!


Lol! Ok... This or will sound mk2? Is the mk2 worth the actual $50cad?

**Edit** I already have the Samsara ..


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Got these quirky Docomo earbuds and while they are begging to be modded, I think I will just keep it stock with the super thin j cord and push button microphone for now.

I was really surprised by the quality sub-bass and overall decent detail.  






--


----------



## mbwilson111

BloodyPenguin said:


> Got these quirky Docomo earbuds and while they are begging to be modded, I think I will just keep it stock with the super thin j cord and push button microphone for now.
> 
> I was really surprised by the quality sub-bass and overall decent detail.
> 
> ...




My Blur Black Panther is actually a modded Docomo


----------



## BloodyPenguin (Apr 7, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> My Blur Black Panther is actually a modded Docomo.



Looks awesome!  Now I want to try one!

Wong Kuan Wae's 300ohm original Blur is still the best earbud I've ever heard.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I also just got this JVC/Victor earbud.  The extremely short J Cord makes it almost unusable.  In the coming months I am going to have converted to a MMCX plug.

These have a super fun sound and I am looking forward to being able able to use them more.  






--


----------



## tayo15

My yearly upgrade is coming around. My main set at the moment is the Elibuds Saba v6. Is there an earbud that perfects its sound and is a direct upgrade?? Its one of the best ive had so far. The bass the highs and the mids and that soundstage!


----------



## Con Par

guys i cant find the kube v1 earbuds . i remember seeing those on ebay at one time. i want to purchase those love the orange ones!


----------



## mbwilson111

Con Par said:


> guys i cant find the kube v1 earbuds . i remember seeing those on ebay at one time. i want to purchase those love the orange ones!



out of stock at the moment.  We never know when or if there will be another batch.


----------



## waynes world

toear said:


> Lol! Ok... This or will sound mk2? Is the mk2 worth the actual $50cad?
> 
> **Edit** I already have the Samsara ..



The MK2's are worth their price. And as I alluded to, for me the RW9's are worth twice their sale price. I personally like them equally, but as usual in this hobby, ymmv.



tayo15 said:


> My yearly upgrade is coming around. My main set at the moment is the Elibuds Saba v6. Is there an earbud that perfects its sound and is a direct upgrade?? Its one of the best ive had so far. The bass the highs and the mids and that soundstage!



I'm still loving my Sabia V6's as well (they are my nightly trance buds).


----------



## BadReligionPunk

waynes world said:


> The MK2's are worth their price. And as I alluded to, for me the RW9's are worth twice their sale price. I personally like them equally, but as usual in this hobby, ymmv.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still loving my Sabia V6's as well (they are my nightly trance buds).



Anybody with the V6 and VUNBUD that can confirm they are the exact same driver and tuning ect.?


----------



## Degru

Hm, still waiting for NiceHCK to reply... How long do they usually take? Or is it because weekend


----------



## HungryPanda

most probably


----------



## Degru

Well, niceHCK replied, now it's confusion about whether the earbud is correct or not. This is what happens when every earbud out there has identical shells -_-


----------



## seanc6441

Degru said:


> Well, niceHCK replied, now it's confusion about whether the earbud is correct or not. This is what happens when every earbud out there has identical shells -_-


Just show him a picture with the impedance measured?


----------



## Degru

Yeah, did. Waiting for a reply now.


----------



## tayo15

waynes world said:


> The MK2's are worth their price. And as I alluded to, for me the RW9's are worth twice their sale price. I personally like them equally, but as usual in this hobby, ymmv.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still loving my Sabia V6's as well (they are my nightly trance buds).



So nothing better over the sabias atm?


----------



## fairx

Lol the ry4c that I ordered last month finally arrived, along with VERY porous foam that I ordered way earlier (also shipped using sunyou).

I don't know anybody would want this kind of music reproduction but it's like hearing bandwidth limited AM radio (in stereo). The only qualities that resemble ry4s is the bass IMO. It's not bad, but buy fake she3800 for the money instead. Maybe it's better with bright sounding source? I don't know for sure because my sources are either balance or slightly warmer. 

I might use the cable for something else or gift the earbud to my nieces / nephews.

I tried the very porous foam because I wanted to retrieve some details that's missing from ry4s + normal foams. I did get the details that I wanted but the problem is bass suffers like not wearing any foam at all. I still haven't found good use for this foam yet. I might try with some other bud to test which matches better.

Cheers


----------



## cqtek

I'm sure that in this long thread, what I'm going to write has already been commented on. 
But lately I'm verifying that the sound of the earbuds depends a lot on the design of its capsule. In my opinion, earbuds with a PK capsule sound practically the same to me throughout their lower area. I find the differences in the mids and treble. Especially (and except the ISN Rambo), their middle zone sounds very muddy to me, due to the enhancement they have between 400Hz and 1kHz. It is not that they are earbuds with a big punch in the lower zone. In a small size, only the 1More EO320 are left over from bass, while the Qian39 are not left behind either.


 

Then there are cases of similar, thick capsules, such as Toneking Musicmaker or Ourart Ti7, whose bass are quite light. But this feeling is not reflected in the frequency responses. And really, when I press the Ti7s lightly against my ears, the bass increases greatly. I'm sure we've all experienced that feeling.

 

Perhaps the capsule that allows the most variation is the classic MX500, or maybe it's simply because it's the most used capsule, which is why there are so many differences. But then we go back to the graphs and the lower zone is very similar.


 


Ergo...Maybe my measurement system is wrong, because it is unable to reflect how we actually hear earbuds. 

But it is true that the shape of the capsule conditions the final sound of each earbud.

Recently I received a hope: I can't deny that I'm an absolute fan of IEMs, but I don't refuse another kind of sound like the one provided by earbuds. The shape of the Smabat ST-10 gives me a sound that I consider to be as close to an IEM as I have been able to hear. I love that feeling.


----------



## DBaldock9

Earbud set-up at work today -
Wong Kuan Wae modified and re-cabled Vido earbuds
Little Bear B4-X Dual Mono Tube Amp (w/OPA627AU op-amps)
Onkyo DP-X1 DAP (running Neutron Music Player)
.


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> Earbud set-up at work today -
> Wong Kuan Wae modified and re-cabled Vido earbuds
> Little Bear B4-X Dual Mono Tube Amp (w/OPA627AU op-amps)
> Onkyo DP-X1 DAP (running Neutron Music Player)
> .



Yeah... I'm sure you're getting a _lot_ of work done lol!

Nice rig


----------



## rkw

Degru said:


> Well, niceHCK replied, now it's confusion about whether the earbud is correct or not. This is what happens when *every earbud out there has identical shells*


I'm rather amused by this. Dozens of companies making hundreds of earbud models that all look alike and hard to tell apart. Even the same company might have several models that are almost identical. Too much stagnation and not enough innovation.


----------



## HungryPanda

Well the ones I made today are a little different


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> Well the ones I made today are a little different




Yes they are.... and I have put different foams on my pair


----------



## Marcos Fontana

tayo15 said:


> So nothing better over the sabias atm?


I agree. For the price, Sabia is hard to beat! Probably I will buy a spare one.


----------



## assassin10000 (Apr 8, 2019)

cqtek said:


> Then there are cases of similar, thick capsules, such as Toneking Musicmaker or Ourart Ti7, whose bass are quite light. But this feeling is not reflected in the frequency responses. And really, when I press the Ti7s lightly against my ears, the bass increases greatly. I'm sure we've all experienced that feeling.



@cqtek I guess it must be because of the lack of seal. How well the shape of the earbud housing seats has a large effect on how low end is transmitted to our ear drum.

I now double foam (offset donut) my ACG and with EQ have a decent amount of bass.


----------



## Degru (Apr 9, 2019)

Man, it's been a whole lot of back and forth with NiceHCK insisting that I got the correct item without addressing any of the evidence I provide to the contrary (such as looking different from every other pic of it online) , so I guess I'll just ask them if other units in their stock look like mine and leave it at that. If that's the case then it's manufacturer revision I suppose. I feel like they're starting to get annoyed -_-

BTW, anybody know how to contact K's earphone directly? Facebook maybe?

Figured I'd also send a quick message to **** and clarify what theirs looks like.


----------



## cqtek

assassin10000 said:


> @cqtek I guess it must be because of the lack of seal. How well the shape of the earbud housing seats has a large effect on how low end is transmitted to our ear drum.
> 
> I now double foam (offset donut) my ACG and with EQ have a decent amount of bass.



You're right, any problem with the sensation of the lower zone has to do with the sealing of each capsule. Hence my thoughts. 
In most PK capsules I use full foams+donuts, but with Ti7 I use thin foams, the sound it produces is better, you can appreciate its spectacular soundstage. With them I make an exception and let it sound like that.
Thank you.


----------



## Degru

Eh, I think I'll just leave NiceHCK alone lol... upon looking through listings for K's other earphones, I'm seeing red and blue versions of K600 and Samsara that use the same glossy shell type, so it makes sense they switched the black one too; just none of the stores have changed their photo for it yet since barely anybody buys these. I'm _fairly_ confident I have the real K600 now, I suppose, and it's just the earbud itself is underwhelming aside from the tonality. Such confusion tho... you'd expect earbud makers to stick to a consistent design to differentiate their models, but apparently they only differentiate by what cable comes on it.


----------



## subwoof3r

DBaldock9 said:


> Earbud set-up at work today -
> Wong Kuan Wae modified and re-cabled Vido earbuds
> Little Bear B4-X Dual Mono Tube Amp (w/OPA627AU op-amps)
> Onkyo DP-X1 DAP (running Neutron Music Player)
> .


One day I think I will buy this cable, even if it's only SPC, the overall look is really good and extremely soft and flexible. After all, sometimes I miss my old mods without MMCX..


----------



## Degru (Apr 9, 2019)

Oh yeah, I took measurements of my K600 and Vido just now.



Spoiler: k600












Spoiler: Vido











Spoiler: earpods?











Spoiler: all together











Spoiler: measurement setup













Spoiler: measurements with no coupler









Taken with the stock full foam tips with a light but firm pressure against a roughly 2cm coupler on imm6 to try to simulate earbud seal. I also tried to measure earpods, but there was no way I was getting those to seal. I even tried putting one of the spare full foams from the K600 in between it and the tube, which is what that measurement is of. Not ideal, but it's what I have. I forgot to measure my Monks which are wilting away in my closet somewhere, but there are already plenty of graphs of those.

The K600 seems to have a bit of a resonance somewhere around lower mids or midbass (waterfall and FR show the blip in different places so i'm not sure) however this isn't noticeable during listening.

I feel like the Vido measurements aren't quite representative of what I'm hearing in terms of overall shape; a problem area seems to be 4k which makes it sound far better when reduced with EQ, but it's seemingly not reflected in this measurement. I have an old measurement of it (well, the Yincrow X6 which is the same thing) somewhere that highlights this which I used to build the EQ, but I forgot how I made it and haven't been able to reproduce it here. But the difference in bass response is clear, as well as that it is way more uneven than K600 overall.

I also took measurements of each earbud without the coupler; pressed up directly against the imm6 microphone.

As far as amping goes, I connected my Geekout 1000 for a bit, but since it yielded zero difference in measured response I didn't bother with it.


----------



## waynes world

tayo15 said:


> So nothing better over the sabias atm?



You mean under $20? The other ones I like are the Kubes, Snow Lotus 1.0+ CE, Yincrow RW9's and ANN200's. They are ALL great, and which ones you like the most could be largely up to personal preferences. I love them all tbh (currently really loving the ANN200's, partially because they are new, and partially because they are awesome).



cqtek said:


> The shape of the Smabat ST-10 gives me a sound that I consider to be as close to an IEM as I have been able to hear. I love that feeling.



Smabats! All I hear is Smabats! I can see that I am going to have my hands full resisting those darned Smabats lol!


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Smabats! All I hear is Smabats! I can see that I am going to have my hands full resisting those darned Smabats lol!



especially after I get mine


----------



## HungryPanda

The ANN200's are really good imo


----------



## tayo15

waynes world said:


> You mean under $20? The other ones I like are the Kubes, Snow Lotus 1.0+ CE, Yincrow RW9's and ANN200's. They are ALL great, and which ones you like the most could be largely up to personal preferences. I love them all tbh (currently really loving the ANN200's, partially because they are new, and partially because they are awesome).
> 
> 
> 
> Smabats! All I hear is Smabats! I can see that I am going to have my hands full resisting those darned Smabats lol!



Not under $20 I want an upgrade with same sound profile but tuned better or refined. I tried the snow lotus and they were ok but not my style. So far my progression has been, Experience Ver. BS1 Earbuds -> Sabia V6 (current), Ive had the monks, monks+, Snow Lotus, and several others but only the BS1 and Sabia were ever made my daily drivers, and id take the sabia over the BS1 Exp Ver any day. That being said Im just looking for an upgraded refined tuned version of the sabia buds, idk how to describe the sound profile but ticks all my boxes, the soundstage and everything.


----------



## HungryPanda

Sabia Pearl might just do you then


----------



## waynes world

tayo15 said:


> Not under $20 I want an upgrade with same sound profile but tuned better or refined. I tried the snow lotus and they were ok but not my style. So far my progression has been, Experience Ver. BS1 Earbuds -> Sabia V6 (current), Ive had the monks, monks+, Snow Lotus, and several others but only the BS1 and Sabia were ever made my daily drivers, and id take the sabia over the BS1 Exp Ver any day. That being said Im just looking for an upgraded refined tuned version of the sabia buds, idk how to describe the sound profile but ticks all my boxes, the soundstage and everything.



The "problem" for you is that the Sabia's are very good, and they fit your preferences, so it's difficult to advise you on an upgrade. (edit: although I see that HungryPanda just suggested a potentially good one!).

I really like the Yincrow RW9's, but they have different characteristics than the Sabia V6 (ie the mids of the RW9's are more present) so they probably aren't for you.

The Willsound MK2's would be a fairly safe upgrade for you though I think.


----------



## tayo15

HungryPanda said:


> Sabia Pearl might just do you then



Cant seem to find that earbud?


----------



## HungryPanda

Not for sale at the moment but may be in the future


----------



## cqtek

waynes world said:


> You mean under $20? The other ones I like are the Kubes, Snow Lotus 1.0+ CE, Yincrow RW9's and ANN200's. They are ALL great, and which ones you like the most could be largely up to personal preferences. I love them all tbh (currently really loving the ANN200's, partially because they are new, and partially because they are awesome).
> 
> Smabats! All I hear is Smabats! I can see that I am going to have my hands full resisting those darned Smabats lol!



I seem to remember that you own the Svara L, you've once recommended it to me for its bass zone. 
My question is if with them you have that feeling of proximity to the sound of the IEMs.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

assassin10000 said:


> @cqtek I guess it must be because of the lack of seal. How well the shape of the earbud housing seats has a large effect on how low end is transmitted to our ear drum.
> 
> I now double foam (offset donut) my ACG and with EQ have a decent amount of bass.


I have a lot of concerns about trying to equalize an earbud in the bass range. I fear


tayo15 said:


> Not under $20 I want an upgrade with same sound profile but tuned better or refined. I tried the snow lotus and they were ok but not my style. So far my progression has been, Experience Ver. BS1 Earbuds -> Sabia V6 (current), Ive had the monks, monks+, Snow Lotus, and several others but only the BS1 and Sabia were ever made my daily drivers, and id take the sabia over the BS1 Exp Ver any day. That being said Im just looking for an upgraded refined tuned version of the sabia buds, idk how to describe the sound profile but ticks all my boxes, the soundstage and everything.





tayo15 said:


> Not under $20 I want an upgrade with same sound profile but tuned better or refined. I tried the snow lotus and they were ok but not my style. So far my progression has been, Experience Ver. BS1 Earbuds -> Sabia V6 (current), Ive had the monks, monks+, Snow Lotus, and several others but only the BS1 and Sabia were ever made my daily drivers, and id take the sabia over the BS1 Exp Ver any day. That being said Im just looking for an upgraded refined tuned version of the sabia buds, idk how to describe the sound profile but ticks all my boxes, the soundstage and everything.


I love the Sabia and it's hard to beat in price.


tayo15 said:


> Not under $20 I want an upgrade with same sound profile but tuned better or refined. I tried the snow lotus and they were ok but not my style. So far my progression has been, Experience Ver. BS1 Earbuds -> Sabia V6 (current), Ive had the monks, monks+, Snow Lotus, and several others but only the BS1 and Sabia were ever made my daily drivers, and id take the sabia over the BS1 Exp Ver any day. That being said Im just looking for an upgraded refined tuned version of the sabia buds, idk how to describe the sound profile but ticks all my boxes, the soundstage and everything.


Do you really want an upgrade? You will need to pick a ZoomFred PRO. This is really an upgrade. But prepare your wallet. Where are you plugging your Sabia? Maybe a good Source can make it shine even more.


----------



## waynes world

cqtek said:


> I seem to remember that you own the Svara L, you've once recommended it to me for its bass zone.
> My question is if with them you have that feeling of proximity to the sound of the IEMs.



I have a problem with iems - I can never seem to get a good seal (so thin sounding and crappy bass), and I have troubles getting them to stay in my ears. And when I do, they result in ear fatigue and then usually tinnitus in one of my ears.

So for me, the Svara L's bass is just right (and definitely plentiful enough for me). It's a shame they can't be purchased anymore, and that you instead need to go for those pesky and more expensive Sambats. I presume that the Sambats are even better than the Svara L's, but I am looking forward to the comparisons coming in. It is possible that the Svara L's bass is quite comparable to the Sambats, but we will see.


----------



## HungryPanda

The Svara L's will always be good earbuds


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> It is possible that the Svara L's bass is quite comparable to the Sambats, but we will see.



I am not expecting them to be bass monsters.  We will see.   BTW it sure is easier to say Sambat than Smabat!


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> it sure is easier to say Sambat than Smabat!



Hey, be nice to my dyslexia lol!


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> I am not expecting them to be bass monsters.  We will see.   BTW it sure is easier to say Sambat than Smabat!


----------



## theoutsider

mbwilson111 said:


> I am not expecting them to be bass monsters.  We will see.   BTW it sure is easier to say Sambat than Smabat!



Smabat = smart buds


----------



## assassin10000

Marcos Fontana said:


> I have a lot of concerns about trying to equalize an earbud in the bass range. I fear



Why? 

As long as you're not listening at loud enough volumes to damage the driver membrane it doesn't hurt anything.


----------



## mbwilson111

theoutsider said:


> Smabat = smart buds



Is that true?  The translation?


----------



## Dabbaranks

Been a J hook recabling day, first time recabling anything and it went super smooth and was easy as cake. Gonna order some more DIY cables for sure!


----------



## HungryPanda

unfortunately cannot click on the link but I'm glad it went smoothly


----------



## Dabbaranks

HungryPanda said:


> unfortunately cannot click on the link but I'm glad it went smoothly



Thanks HP!

Lol yeah someone needs to teach me how to hyperlink on here, I edited my post with photo.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

assassin10000 said:


> Why?
> 
> As long as you're not listening at loud enough volumes to damage the driver membrane it doesn't hurt anything.


This is the problem. Sometimes i listen loud. I can't control myself sometimes.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Folks,

Anybody has any idea about average price for an used MX 985? I saw one guy selling it for around $200. Is it worth it?


----------



## HungryPanda

It's best to write what you want to say then hit enter once or twice then click on upload a file at the bottom right of window then select the picture you want


----------



## HungryPanda

Dabbaranks said:


> Been a J hook recabling day, first time recabling anything and it went super smooth and was easy as cake. Gonna order some more DIY cables for sure!


looks really good


----------



## Degru (Apr 9, 2019)

Marcos Fontana said:


> I have a lot of concerns about trying to equalize an earbud in the bass range. I fear
> 
> 
> I love the Sabia and it's hard to beat in price.
> ...


I've eqd a pair of Monks before to straight up Harman level bass, and cranked them up so loud the driver was reaching it's excursion limit and bottoming out and distorting horribly, farting with every bass note and the whole thing physically vibrating.. They still work perfectly fine now without any flaws. Unless the design is inherently flawed, the driver is more durable than you think . It is designed to move, after all.


----------



## ballog

Guys I ordered the Kube V1 from indonesian seller 'jultoptau' on eBay. I'm from Mauritius and somehow my package is in France.
The tracking info is as follows:
Number: RR046415980ID
Package status: In transit
Destination: Mauritius
2019-03-25 18:22 MPC JAKARTA, Departure from outward office of exchange
2019-03-25 18:18 MPC JAKARTA, Arrival at outward office of exchange
Origin: Indonesia
2019-04-02 11:42 FRANCE FR, Departure from inward OE Adpis : 30
2019-03-29 11:06 FRANCE FR, Departure from inward OE Adpis : 30
2019-03-29 07:13 FRANCE FR, Arrival at inward OE
2019-03-25 18:22 JAKARTA MPC IDJKTC, Departure from outward OE
2019-03-25 18:18 JAKARTA MPC IDJKTC, Arrival at outward OE
2019-03-23 19:07 JAKARTAPUSAT 10000, Posting/Collection
======================================
Is the package in transit or has it somehow been wrongly addressed? Should I contact the seller? Would appreciate if any of you who have ordered from 'jultoptau' could chime in.


----------



## fairx (Apr 10, 2019)

I pry open Ry4c and seems it's glued strongly and not snap in style of normal mx500 shell. Chipped few part but I have no intention to glue it back again. I also notice the tuning foam differs from what I used to see. Looks like pk style tuning?



So I salvage the cable to recable my ty320. Not very ideal but the cable seems good enough and I can test of cable really mess the sound? I also found usable tuning cotton (don't remember where they're from but I found a pair sitting neatly in my drawer.) alas the length of tuning  has shrink and barely fit to the last hole in driver. Also a good test if they changes the sound so I went through with it.

The old original cable that came with 320 already in worse condition and leak some current (stunt my cheek skins many many times),and the replacement cable also quite stiff after prolong usage.

To tell the story short my ty 320 now fully usable with cable and tuning foam replacement. I can't compare to the original sound but with this new setup and new DAC I can say it's sound wonderful. Brave attack and improve separation but never harsh like before. What responsible for the change I do not know. I also remember the way I put the cable is not the same as original so the densities of the shell cavity might different. Hence the tuning differences.

Oh I found the very porous foam is quite match with ty320. Good mid bass as always but no need to filter the already nice and sharp mids / highs. This is improvement IMO.



Welcome, new dac and welcome back old buddy.  Cheers.


----------



## DynamicEars

ballog said:


> Guys I ordered the Kube V1 from indonesian seller 'jultoptau' on eBay. I'm from Mauritius and somehow my package is in France.
> The tracking info is as follows:
> Number: RR046415980ID
> Package status: In transit
> ...



in transit. just wait patiently buddy, you got tracking code with you


----------



## ballog

DynamicEars said:


> in transit. just wait patiently buddy, you got tracking code with you


I know its in transit, its just that I'm in the Indian Ocean and the package is in Europe. I guess its the normal route for packages from Indonesia.


----------



## mbwilson111

ballog said:


> I know its in transit, its just that I'm in the Indian Ocean and the package is in Europe. I guess its the normal route for packages from Indonesia.



If you are really worried, the seller is very good about answering messages.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

I use Vidos when I go to the gym and y'know what, they really do sound very good.  I mean for a few dollars you can have pretty damned good sound nowadays.  Its remarkable...


----------



## waynes world

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> I use Vidos when I go to the gym and y'know what, they really do sound very good.  I mean for a few dollars you can have pretty damned good sound nowadays.  Its remarkable...



Yup. I just wish my gym didn't play music so loud over the speakers (make buds impractical).


----------



## theoutsider (Apr 10, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Is that true?  The translation?


Smabat is the contraction of Small Bat,

I am not entirely sure, but I think the word "bat" carries the connotation of happiness,

so Smabat metaphorically means "small happiness".


----------



## seanc6441

theoutsider said:


> Smabat is the contraction of Small Bat,
> 
> I am not entirely sure, but I think the word "bat" carries the connotation of happiness,
> 
> so Smabat metaphorically means "small happiness".


Or someone made a typo at the office and they rolled with it


----------



## Carrow (Apr 10, 2019)

Updates in my Ongoing Earbud Adventures:


Sabia V6 are current daily drivers - the amount of what they do well is ridiculous for the price. Soundstage, depth, subbass, all excellently delivered.
I bought a pair of Paradise buds from Imperial Audio in the Philippines. Used them for a few days and loved them, was an excellent combo with my LG V20 (now moved on). Then one of the drivers just... died? Not sure what happened there but nothing within my control. Sent them back for repair or replace and am strongly considering having them reterminated for balanced output. (Wait, you ask, BALANCED output? Well...)
I got a Fiio X5iii a few weeks ago and it's brought out the best from some of my buds for sure. Balanced output is an option so while I wait for my IA Paradise to make the return trip I've ordered a set of TY Hi-Z HP32 2.5mm from Penon. Only €9 and it's a cheap way to see how the balanced output sounds on my X5iii!
I have a replaced and retuned @WillSound MK150 set on the way. The original set had been modified for use with MMCX cables, but a connector became stuck and I wasn't risking breaking the earbud to fix it, so I sent it back and it's been sorted out. Looking forward to hearing the new set!
The JVC Victor set I got has been recabled by Stiks Audio and is on its way back, will post photos when it arrives!
I am, as you can probably tell, really enjoying this hobby


----------



## ballog

mbwilson111 said:


> If you are really worried, the seller is very good about answering messages.


@mbwilson111  Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## viatraco

Please, could you give 3-4 links for earbuds based on genuine PK1 drivers ? From trusted manufacturers/sellers and cheapest 
I want to try their sound signature.
PK1 are fairly balanced or mid-forward, warm ?
Thank you in advance.


----------



## caracal (Apr 11, 2019)

Guys, could you please tell where can I buy tuning foam for earbuds? Tried to search ali - no results
I mean foams like this 
And is it possible to order ann200 to Europe? Found a few indonesian\indian websites with no info about shipping.
Would be grateful for help!


----------



## HungryPanda

caracal said:


> Guys, could you please tell where can I buy tuning foam for earbuds? Tried to search ali - no results
> I mean foams like this
> And is it possible to order ann200 to Europe? Found a few indonesian\indian websites with no info about shipping.
> Would be grateful for help!


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/diy...ning-cotton-flat-head-Washers/2035852108.html


----------



## stimuz

fairx said:


> Oh I found the very porous foam is quite match with ty320. Good mid bass as always but no need to filter the already nice and sharp mids / highs. This is improvement IMO.
> .



Luffa grade foam


----------



## Alastor9

Hi everyone, i need your help
for a recommendation or someone to point me in the right direction.

I'm looking for a pair of Bluetooth earbuds that fit in the ear like Apple earpods. Those are my ideal shape because they let music in without lowering my situational awareness by not being noise cancelling.

However, airpods are expensive and easily lost because they're not connected by any physical wires, so i'd also like this pair to have a wire going behind the neck. Also need nice drivers  with a lot of bass and a really good noise cancelling mic for important calls. Sweat proof would be nice.

I'm going to be  using these for important calls in the car, and to lift weights at the gym.

So far I've considered the anker line, but all of their designs are in ear noise cancelling. It's been very difficult to find any earbuds that are shaped like Apple ear pods but are not Apple ear pods.

I know this is a lot so i would really appreciate any suggestions from the bottom of my heart. Thank you in advance


----------



## theresanarc

HungryPanda said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/diy...ning-cotton-flat-head-Washers/2035852108.html


What do these do?


----------



## DBaldock9

theresanarc said:


> What do these do?



They tune the driver, by providing resistance to airflow through the back of the driver frame.


----------



## jogawag (Apr 11, 2019)

Alastor9 said:


> Hi everyone, i need your help
> for a recommendation or someone to point me in the right direction.
> 
> I'm looking for a pair of Bluetooth earbuds that fit in the ear like Apple earpods. Those are my ideal shape because they let music in without lowering my situational awareness by not being noise cancelling.
> ...



I think you can use Apple earpods with Bluetooth receiver(Fiio btr3 etc.).


----------



## wskl

Alastor9 said:


> Hi everyone, i need your help
> for a recommendation or someone to point me in the right direction.
> 
> I'm looking for a pair of Bluetooth earbuds that fit in the ear like Apple earpods. Those are my ideal shape because they let music in without lowering my situational awareness by not being noise cancelling.
> ...



Get something like the **** PT25 which is using the Apple Earpod shape and buy a separate MMCX bluetooth cable for it.


----------



## chinmie

Alastor9 said:


> Hi everyone, i need your help
> for a recommendation or someone to point me in the right direction.
> 
> I'm looking for a pair of Bluetooth earbuds that fit in the ear like Apple earpods. Those are my ideal shape because they let music in without lowering my situational awareness by not being noise cancelling.
> ...



get the Sabbat X12 Pro if you want true wireless like the airpod. they go for several different names (Lezii, Raycon, etc) but i think they are the same. the Sabbat as far as i know is the original maker.

for behind the neck solution, you could just buy any mmcx airbuds and some bluetooth cables. i use Svara L and Willsound MK for this


----------



## Carrow

Shoelaces! Newly arrived from Vic Hernandez at Stiks Audio, this is a recabled red transparent JVC Victor set that I'm calling the Boga Coax Edition since that's what the black shoelace cable of his is called. In awe of the soundstage of this lad. Absolute unit. Player is Fiio X5iii!


----------



## theresanarc

DBaldock9 said:


> They tune the driver, by providing resistance to airflow through the back of the driver frame.



Oh....I believe I saw somewhere (probably here), someone was using playdough clay from the crafts store to plug in the holes on the back. You would just take out a tiny piece with a toothpick or something I guess and plug it into the back of the hole. You don't even need to open the earbud up that way, you can just do it from the outside.

I'm assuming it does the same thing.


----------



## exavolt

Received these babies just now. OOTB, instant like. Let's see after some hours of cooking.


----------



## activatorfly

.....Knew that Cayin box would someday come in handy!!


----------



## lyrean

My RW-9 arrived today. I don't know if someone already mentioned this but it now comes with a different kind of a leather (zip) pouch.


----------



## waynes world

activatorfly said:


> .....Knew that Cayin box would someday come in handy!!



Good box filled with a lot of goodness!


----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> Good box filled with a lot of goodness!



Is that shorthand for "Nice Toy Box!"?


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> Is that shorthand for "Nice Toy Box!"?



Yes! A nice little toy box that I wouldn't let my new Labrador puppy go _anywhere_ near.... Sheesh that thing likes to chew lol!


----------



## rkw

exavolt said:


> Received these babies just now. OOTB, instant like. Let's see after some hours of cooking.


Could people with Smabat ST-10 comment on what to expect from the fit, say compared with MX500 and Yuin PK shells?


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

lyrean said:


> My RW-9 arrived today. I don't know if someone already mentioned this but it now comes with a different kind of a leather (zip) pouch.



Looks like a more "real world use-able" pouch actually...


----------



## manthisis (Apr 12, 2019)

Hey folks. Thinking about delving into this world. How is the Masya for acoustic/vocal music? It looks enticing as it has detachable cables. But I've also heard that it's source dependent, and I would be running them out of my iPhone with the dongle (<1ohm OI)

Just FYI, my open reference is the HD600.


----------



## HungryPanda

The rose Masya is great for acoustic and vocal music for sure


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> The rose Masya is great for acoustic and vocal music for sure


My opinion of it still rests on the source used. It can sound overly thin and bright or wonderfully full and rich (and balanced!) depending on the source output impedance.

I guess technically you are messing with the frequency response by using a higher output impedance on a 12 (or 16?) ohm driver. But it makes all the difference for me when it comes to the Masya.


----------



## exavolt

rkw said:


> Could people with Smabat ST-10 comment on what to expect from the fit, say compared with MX500 and Yuin PK shells?


There was discussion about the fit here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2426 (it was Svara L, but I believe the shells are perfectly same).

To me it's closer to PK shells than to MX, and they are quite thin. There's also a set of silicon covers (and some foams) in the box if the buds are too small for your ears. Also, the over-ear design helps them sit comfortably (haven't tried them with cable down).


----------



## assassin10000

exavolt said:


> To me it's closer to PK shells than to MX, and they are quite thin. There's also a set of silicon covers (and some foams) in the box if the buds are too small for your ears. Also, the over-ear design helps them sit comfortably (haven't tried them with cable down).



Very nice. Another point in their favor for me as I find the PK shell slightly more comfortable than the MX.

What's your initial impression of them? How do would you compare them to the EBX & ACG? I was considering the EBX and have the ACG.


----------



## areek (Apr 13, 2019)

Hello. Need suggestions for an earbud with warm tonality, lively mids and extended  but rounded highs. Hate sibilance. Budget 50-60usd. Prefer aliexpress or sites that accept credit card and would ship to Bangladesh. 
 Also, does the ve asura match this profile? Please let me know.

Thanks in advanced.

Edit- tagging @ClieOS & @HungryPanda please suggest some.


----------



## exavolt (Apr 13, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> Very nice. Another point in their favor for me as I find the PK shell slightly more comfortable than the MX.
> 
> What's your initial impression of them? How do would you compare them to the EBX & ACG? I was considering the EBX and have the ACG.


Initial impression, nothing's bad, like, things are on their place with the right amount; I am not noticing any dips or peaks. Overall, tight / punchy, bit dry but with warmth. The warmth came from the vents. If I block the vents, the bass are there but they have no decay. So, the bass port design does work.

It's still not ACG-with-bass tho. Imaging and transparency are pretty good but still not on the same level as the ACG, but better than EBX. You'll get some decent amount of bass; still not at the same quality of decent IEMs.


----------



## subwoof3r

My *Smabat ST-10* just reached my country today!


----------



## ClieOS (Apr 13, 2019)

I do recommend using either full foam or donut foam with ST-10. As the bass quantity is fairly neutral, you need some seal to get the full effect on how deep it goes.


----------



## jason32835

This tread is overwhelming. I'm looking to get a set of earbuds. I want to start around ~10USD. I plan to pair with a Zishan Z3. I tend to enjoy a neutral sound. I currently have SHP9500s that I love but need something more mobile.  

Trying to decide between these:
Snow Lotus 1.0 64 ohm
EMX500 
EMX500S 
RY4S 

Something else? I'm lost in the 2K pages of this tread.. Half the new suggestions aren't for sale atm. Help!


----------



## HungryPanda (Apr 13, 2019)

Ry4s or EMX500s is a great start


----------



## jibberish

HungryPanda said:


> Ry4s or EMX500s is a great start


As someone who only got into earbuds last year, I can confirm this, as the Ry4s was the earbud that opened my eyes (ears?) to how good earbuds can be.  I bought 3 pairs of ~$10 buds up front that would all be good choices for a beginner, based on your preference:

Ry4s - great bass, wide soundstage, compromises a bit on detail and clarity in midrange
SL 1.0+ - extremely good mids, 3d soundstage, but also is not a very bright sounding signature, so can take some adjustment to get used to if you're coming from something with really elevated treble
EMX500s - bit of an all rounder that falls somewhere in the middle of the two mentioned above, jack of all trades but master of none

Also if you're willing to stretch your budget a bit, I'd recommend the Yincrow RW-9, since it frequently can be had for about $17.  It is a slight tier above all of those 3, imo.


----------



## waynes world

areek said:


> Hello. Need suggestions for an earbud with warm tonality, lively mids and extended  but rounded highs. Hate sibilance. Budget 50-60usd. Prefer aliexpress or sites that accept credit card and would ship to Bangladesh.
> Also, does the ve asura match this profile? Please let me know.
> 
> Thanks in advanced.
> ...



It won't surprise anyone here, but I suggest the Yincrow RW9's



HungryPanda said:


> Ry4s or EMX500s is a great start



And if he/she is smart, it will be a great end!


----------



## groucho69

waynes world said:


> It won't surprise anyone here, but I suggest the Yincrow RW9's
> 
> 
> 
> And if he/she is smart, it will be a great end!



My prediction: ain't gonna happen.


----------



## cathee

Hey guys, quick recommendation question, what's the latest and greatest that satisfies the following requirements:

emx500 form factor
slightly u-shaped (I'm on the Snow Lotus 2.5mm right now)
<$100
detachable cables deffo a plus
for on the go! so hopefully easy to drive, flexy-sexy bendable cables
Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions!


----------



## fairx

Too much rec for rw-9, I'm gonna give in


----------



## jibberish

fairx said:


> Too much rec for rw-9, I'm gonna give in


----------



## fairx

Wait for me in, 7 days lol. 


jibberish said:


>


----------



## caracal (Apr 13, 2019)

Got my Ry4c today. Didn't like em tbh.
These earbuds have significantly more highs and slightly lack bass compared to Ry4s (audigy 4 pro is the source)
Nothing like vidos.

The shell feels cheaper and less comfortable than mx500, lighter and thinner. I'd better buy another Ry4s for that value


----------



## jason32835

fairx said:


> Too much rec for rw-9, I'm gonna give in


Same..


----------



## cqtek

Hello firends.

I'm writing a review of the Ourart Ti7. During the testing time I realized how sensitive their sound is depending on the fitting position.
I usually fit them this way. 

 

But I have realized that if I separate them from the tragus and create a small hole, orienting the earbuds more frontally towards the ear canal, the sound improves, winning especially in the lower zone.

 

Has anyone who owns Ti7 ever noticed such a difference?

I hope the pictures of my ears don't hurt anyone's sensibility...lol


----------



## cqtek

Well, encouraged by my particular finding (I think that this effect is produced by the particular morphology of my ear canal: it is quite wide), I have tested it with MX500 earbuds and the result is brutal. But I have achieved it by rotating the earbud, putting it almost horizontally. In this case, with the Ty Hi-Z HP-150s mkII the change is quite big, gaining above all in clarity and vocal presence.


----------



## HungryPanda

positioning of earbuds is very important, it gets easier over time


----------



## groucho69

cqtek said:


> Hello firends.
> 
> I'm writing a review of the Ourart Ti7. During the testing time I realized how sensitive their sound is depending on the fitting position.
> I usually fit them this way.
> ...



Try them sideways


----------



## waynes world

cqtek said:


> Well, encouraged by my particular finding (I think that this effect is produced by the particular morphology of my ear canal: it is quite wide), I have tested it with MX500 earbuds and the result is brutal. But I have achieved it by rotating the earbud, putting it almost horizontally. In this case, with the Ty Hi-Z HP-150s mkII the change is quite big, gaining above all in clarity and vocal presence.



That's how I wore the graphenes (old). Made a big difference. Not so much with other earbuds.


----------



## cqtek (Apr 13, 2019)

groucho69 said:


> Try them sideways


Thanks.
But not so good, which shows that each ear is a different world 



waynes world said:


> That's how I wore the graphenes (old). Made a big difference. Not so much with other earbuds.



It's rare enough to only get a different sound with a single model.
But maybe it's good, so you don't have adjustment problems to get the best sound.


----------



## assassin10000 (Apr 14, 2019)

cqtek said:


> Hello friends.
> 
> I'm writing a review of the Ourart Ti7. During the testing time I realized how sensitive their sound is depending on the fitting position.
> I usually fit them this way.
> ...



I get a similar effect with the ACG when I lightly touch what would be the upper left in your pic (about 10:30 if looking at a clock face). That's with a single donut foam. For me the difference comes from the increased seal.

You may also be gaining better mids & highs from uncovering the donut foam opening to your ear canal.


I now double donut foam (offset hole) and while the effect is still there it's not as much of one.


----------



## areek

How good is the VE zen 2 and the asura compared to the Toneking TO600?


----------



## raghav20

Hi,
I was looking for a good pair of earbuds
Please suggest one under $20


----------



## jogawag

raghav20 said:


> Hi,
> I was looking for a good pair of earbuds
> Please suggest one under $20


You don't have to hesitate to choose Yincrow RW-9 if under $20.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

raghav20 said:


> Hi,
> I was looking for a good pair of earbuds
> Please suggest one under $20



i highly recommend the RY4S UE version


----------



## raghav20 (Apr 14, 2019)

Is OURART ACG much better than these $20 earbuds


----------



## raghav20 (Apr 14, 2019)

I was reading reviews and posts and was a bit confused about some earbuds. Can someone please rank below earbuds or define them based on sound signatures.
Edifier H180/185
TY Hi-Z
Yincrow X-6/RW-9
RY4S
Fengru EMX 500/MX985
NiceHCK Vido
VE Monk


----------



## raghav20 (Apr 14, 2019)

Sent by mistake


----------



## raghav20

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> i highly recommend the RY4S UE version


Is it better than others in the price ranger like VE Monk, TY Hi-Z, Yincrow X-6 or RW-9, EMX 500 or RY4S


----------



## cqtek

Hello.

Here is my review of Ourart Ti7:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ourart-ti7.22520/reviews#review-21913

I hope you like it.


----------



## purplesun (Apr 15, 2019)

raghav20 said:


> I was reading reviews and posts and was a bit confused about some earbuds. Can someone please rank below earbuds or define them based on sound signatures.
> Edifier H180/185
> TY Hi-Z
> Yincrow X-6/RW-9
> ...



You need to start with benchmark earbud/s that most users would have heard here. IMHO, there's no better starting point than the very cheap and quite capable Vido. After that, you can describe which sound direction you would like to go. The recommendations should then be more accurate to your listening preference from then on.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

raghav20 said:


> Is it better than others in the price ranger like VE Monk, TY Hi-Z, Yincrow X-6 or RW-9, EMX 500 or RY4S



Personally I'd rank the RY4SUE higher than all of the ones you list aside from the RW-9 which is very close for sure.  The RW-9 has a slightly thicker, more bass emphasized sound while the RY4SUE I'd describe as a little more airy and open...


----------



## mbwilson111

raghav20 said:


> Is it better than others in the price ranger like VE Monk, TY Hi-Z, Yincrow X-6 or RW-9, EMX 500 or RY4S



It is not always a matter of better or worse.... just different.  I like all my earbuds... everything is in my list but please do not ask me to compare each one to each of the others... lol.  That would take a few years!


----------



## raghav20

cqtek said:


> Hello.
> 
> Here is my review of Ourart Ti7:
> 
> ...


Read it, good review. 
I think i will start with some cheap one and then move higher. Would definitely like to own one some day


----------



## cqtek

raghav20 said:


> Read it, good review.
> I think i will start with some cheap one and then move higher. Would definitely like to own one some day





Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> Personally I'd rank the RY4SUE higher than all of the ones you list aside from the RW-9 which is very close for sure.  The RW-9 has a slightly thicker, more bass emphasized sound while the RY4SUE I'd describe as a little more airy and open...



I agree with these comments, only that my preference is the other way around, I like the Yincrow RW-9.


----------



## raghav20

purplesun said:


> You need to start with benchmark earbud/s that most users would have heard here. IMHO, there's no better starting point than the very cheap and quite capable Vido. After that, you can describe which sound direction you would like to go. The recommendations should then be more accurate to your listening preference from then on.


I am thinking of starting with Vido and RY4S 
Is normal RY4S much different from RY4SUE


----------



## subwoof3r

Just received my *Smabat ST-10* today! 
Just had the time take 3 photos before returning to work (sorry for the quality, they are unmodified)

Early impression in one word: *STUNNING !*

_(listened them quickly OOTB with my NiceHCK pure silver cable and my usual extreme thin foams / picture below)_


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

raghav20 said:


> I am thinking of starting with Vido and RY4S
> Is normal RY4S much different from RY4SUE



It is to me.  The normal RY4S is a great budget bud.  But, I find the UE version considerably nicer over all...


----------



## TheoS53

raghav20 said:


> I am thinking of starting with Vido and RY4S
> Is normal RY4S much different from RY4SUE



Not sure in how much of a hurry you are, but if you wait a few weeks I'll be able to give you a pretty comprehensive summary of more than a dozen earbuds. I should be receving the Snow Lotus 1+ and 2.0 and the RY4S UE, RY04, and GM500 in a few days, and then I'm still waiting for a bunch of others like the EMX500, RW-9, K's 32, Moondrop, Vido MS16, and  all 3 Qians which are taking forever because the **** store on Ali pretty much waited until the last minute to send the items (ordered everything at the same time just over 2 weeks ago).


----------



## raghav20 (Apr 15, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> It is not always a matter of better or worse.... just different.  I like all my earbuds... everything is in my list but please do not ask me to compare each one to each of the others... lol.  That would take a few years!


Haha
I don't know much about earbuds, been using iems for some time
Would like to try, so was looking for one to start with


----------



## raghav20

TheoS53 said:


> Not sure in how much of a hurry you are, but if you wait a few weeks I'll be able to give you a pretty comprehensive summary of more than a dozen earbuds. I should be receving the Snow Lotus 1+ and 2.0 and the RY4S UE, RY04, and GM500 in a few days, and then I'm still waiting for a bunch of others like the EMX500, RW-9, K's 32, Moondrop, Vido MS16, and  all 3 Qians which are taking forever because the **** store on Ali pretty much waited until the last minute to send the items (ordered everything at the same time just over 2 weeks ago).


That would be great


----------



## raghav20

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> It is to me.  The normal RY4S is a great budget bud.  But, I find the UE version considerably nicer over all...


Thinking of starting with RY4SUE, then would refer @TheoS53 list for future purchases


----------



## mbwilson111

raghav20 said:


> Haha
> I don't know much about earbuds, been using iems for some time
> Would like to try, so was looking for one to start with



I think you will be pleasantly surprised.  You can't really go wrong with any of the ones you are considering.



raghav20 said:


> Thinking of starting with RY4SUE,



Excellent.


----------



## audiohurric4ne

ive been into iems and headphone quite a time and just started playing with earbuds a few weeks ago due to recommendation from a friend who said that his 15$ earbuds sounds better than his 150$ in ears. currently owning the remax rm303 and faaeal rosemary (vido and ry4s coming). i think i prefer iems because i dont think there is any sub bass in ear buds ? vocals dont sound right and overall clarity is behind iems IMO (might be fit issue). fit always feel insecure, im constantly moving the earbuds to get a good seal/placement as its always moving whenever i move my head. maybe because im used to iems fit. mind sharing how do you guys wear buds ? i must say price/performance ratio for earbuds is crazy, but i still prefer iems, for now (might change in a few weeks, who knows). i think its the matter of preference, same as me preferring my 200$ iem to my 350$ open back headphone, some may not agree. what do u guys think on iems vs earbuds ?


----------



## mbwilson111

audiohurric4ne said:


> ive been into iems and headphone quite a time and just started playing with earbuds a few weeks ago due to recommendation from a friend who said that his 15$ earbuds sounds better than his 150$ in ears. currently owning the remax rm303 and faaeal rosemary (vido and ry4s coming). i think i prefer iems because i dont think there is any sub bass in ear buds ? vocals dont sound right and overall clarity is behind iems IMO (might be fit issue). fit always feel insecure, im constantly moving the earbuds to get a good seal/placement as its always moving whenever i move my head. maybe because im used to iems fit. mind sharing how do you guys wear buds ? i must say price/performance ratio for earbuds is crazy, but i still prefer iems, for now (might change in a few weeks, who knows). i think its the matter of preference, same as me preferring my 200$ iem to my 350$ open back headphone, some may not agree. what do u guys think on iems vs earbuds ?



I  have the buds you mentioned and I do hear sub base plus vocals are gorgeous.  I do have some nice daps to use as a source... in fact, I choose to not even own a smartphone.  I kind of tuck as much of it as I can into the tragus and pull down on the stem to secure it.  I probably would not work out with buds but I can move around.   At first I did feel like how you described.  Sometimes they would fall out when I moved my head.   I have problems with buds that lack a nice stem part because I just cannot wiggle them into place easily.  I should mention that I use full foams on all buds (except my Sony Ericsson HPM-64 - it comes with a rubber ring).  If I did not use foams  the buds would move more.

You might like a cable over ear type.  I just got my Smabat ST-10 a few days ago and am impressed by how comfortably and well they sit in my ear.

There will always be a more secure feeling with iems.... but the downside for me is too much isolation.  I need to hear things around me most of the time.   Also I worry about damaging my ear canals.  They get sore if I have to take iems in and out a lot so I tend to use them when I am not expecting any interruptins.


----------



## Ders Olmaz (Apr 19, 2019)

if anyone interested in some rare earbuds look for sales trade forum. i add some of them to there. Kube v1 and mdr-e828lp


----------



## raghav20

Finally took the plunge and bought RY4SUE on AliExpress


----------



## Ira Delphic

raghav20 said:


> Hi,
> I was looking for a good pair of earbuds
> Please suggest one under $20



I also suggest the Yincrow RW-9. I love my two pairs!


----------



## CyberGhost

Hey, I bought YUIN PK3 and I noticed that the writing on it is grey and faded looking. My PK2s have nice white writing on them and all the pictures I've seen of PK3 online also have that white text.

I was wonder if anyone else experienced something like this? Are these fake? The box and everything else looks legit.


----------



## assassin10000

Got a pair of EBX in today. I do like the sound. Nothing is missing, muffled/muddy or seems rolled off. Good bass, mids and treble.

 


Unfortunately I do have some fit issues with my small ears. I knew it was a bit of a gamble for me going in. So going to sell them and try something else.


----------



## Kamen555

audiohurric4ne said:


> ive been into iems and headphone quite a time and just started playing with earbuds a few weeks ago due to recommendation from a friend who said that his 15$ earbuds sounds better than his 150$ in ears. currently owning the remax rm303 and faaeal rosemary (vido and ry4s coming). i think i prefer iems because i dont think there is any sub bass in ear buds ? vocals dont sound right and overall clarity is behind iems IMO (might be fit issue). fit always feel insecure, im constantly moving the earbuds to get a good seal/placement as its always moving whenever i move my head. maybe because im used to iems fit. mind sharing how do you guys wear buds ? i must say price/performance ratio for earbuds is crazy, but i still prefer iems, for now (might change in a few weeks, who knows). i think its the matter of preference, same as me preferring my 200$ iem to my 350$ open back headphone, some may not agree. what do u guys think on iems vs earbuds ?



I find I use them based on its practicality. Earbuds r good for walking or when I'm with other people. IEMs r good for commutes (lrt n buses). Headphones r for long commutes (trains n planes). N all of it work at home if u have housemates  or roommates (full on tt-amp-speakers if u gots a house fr urself).


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Hello folks, 

Today I lost my bag pack, wallet, Es100, Elibuds Sabia, notebook, etc. One thief broke my car window and got everything. Anybody has a link or contact where I can buy a new Sabia? I bought it from the ebay, but it unavailable now.


----------



## HungryPanda

Oh my that is terrible


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Price to live in Brazil. I lost all my documents also. This is the worst part... But I'm really missing my Sabia.


----------



## chellity

Marcos Fontana said:


> Hello folks,
> 
> Today I lost my bag pack, wallet, Es100, Elibuds Sabia, notebook, etc. One thief broke my car window and got everything. Anybody has a link or contact where I can buy a new Sabia? I bought it from the ebay, but it unavailable now.


 
Really sorry to hear that :/ i'd definitely be sad if I lost my sabias too...they're too good for me to even use while working out.  Luckily, I just messaged the ebay seller, and it looks like we might have some of our favorite earbuds available as soon as this weekend!

Get ready to grab your sabias, kubes, and ANNs, theyre almost back!  Sabias may be my favorite (mmcx version with thicc 6 core cable) but the kubes really are special too.  Now i'm curious about ANN because i like that shell...


----------



## raghav20

Ira Delphic said:


> I also suggest the Yincrow RW-9. I love my two pairs!


I think i would buy that next if the form factor of earbuds suit me


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> I just measured my K600, L 566 R568   My own made 600 graphene buds measure L 590 R 593 ohms I'm an electrician and have a very accurate multimeter.



The K's 600 that I ordered have arrived today.
They measure 516Ω (Left) and 520Ω (Right).
Using Hiegi Donut Foams, these earbuds really do sound good.

The Smabat ST-10 earbuds were also in the mail today - and they're definitely an evolution of the Svara-L earbuds.
The ST-10 are set up with a Donut Foam over a Full Foam - and they've got a good quality & quantity of low Bass, without Mid-Bass bloat; Midrange that's clear, without being recessed; and Treble that's extended and detailed.

Both sets of earbuds were driven by my Roku 4 -> FiiO Taishan D03K DAC -> Little Bear B4-X Amp (OPA627AU op-amps), streaming the *Unthanks* concert from the Shrewsbury Folk Festival on YouTube.


----------



## Jsingh4

DBaldock9 said:


> The K's 600 that I ordered have arrived today.
> They measure 516Ω (Left) and 520Ω (Right).
> Using Hiegi Donut Foams, these earbuds really do sound good.
> 
> ...




So which one is better according to you comparison please between Smabat and K600


----------



## DBaldock9

Jsingh4 said:


> So which one is better according to you comparison please between Smabat and K600



I think I may prefer the overall sound balance of the Smabat ST-10, which seems to have a bit more Midrange.


----------



## Jsingh4

And Smabat in comparison to Zen zoe


----------



## assassin10000 (Apr 16, 2019)

raghav20 said:


> Is OURART ACG much better than these $20 earbuds



I'd say yes and no. That's too subjective. I don't have any of the earbuds in that $20 range list but I do have the standard RY4S and a DIY PK 16Ω earbud.

If you want bass, give the ACG a pass. The ACG has minimal bass. You can fudge it with EQ tweaks at your own peril.

If you want something with outstanding mids/highs and good soundstage, the ACG seems hard to beat.


----------



## rkw

CyberGhost said:


> Hey, I bought YUIN PK3 and I noticed that the writing on it is grey and faded looking. My PK2s have nice white writing on them and all the pictures I've seen of PK3 online also have that white text.


I have Yuin PK2 and PK3, and they both have grey lettering like in your picture. Years ago, I had Yuins with white lettering.


----------



## subwoof3r (Apr 16, 2019)

Honestly, I can't find any cons on my Smabat ST10. If you get the right seal (I recommend full thick foams on it) : they just excels everywhere. I'm amazed!
Soundstage, bass, mids, highs, details, everything is there.
They are seriously going to be my new reference earbuds!


----------



## Jsingh4

subwoof3r said:


> Honestly, I can't find any cons on my Smabat ST10. If you get the right seal (I recommend full thick foams on it) : they just excels everywhere. I'm amazed!
> Soundstage, bass, mids, highs, details, everything is there.
> They are seriously going to be my new reference earbuds!



Does the design allow you to lay down in one sided position on the bed with your buds in ear or you have to lay straight.
and how heavy are they although the design should help the weight 
but my question is does it feel like you are wearing something or it doesn't feel while on ears?

I know my questions are dumb and mostly about comfort but I would really appreciate if you can answer also what amp are you using with it, its not hard to drive though
thanks.


----------



## subwoof3r

Jsingh4 said:


> Does the design allow you to lay down in one sided position on the bed with your buds in ear or you have to lay straight.
> and how heavy are they although the design should help the weight
> but my question is does it feel like you are wearing something or it doesn't feel while on ears?
> 
> ...



No worries, there is never "dumb" questions 
It is absolutely not designed for bed, so I should more say "lay straight" (if I had to choose).
I find them much lighter than EBX, they are extremely light so it helps much for overall comfort and seal especially. Thanks to that, I can hear them (a bit like I'm wearing EBX) which means I wear them like normal earbuds (not around ears). Not sure why but if I listen to them around ears, I have less seal, meaning a bit of less overall bass (I will put the fault on my ears, probably).
At home I listen them (like all my gear) into my Fostex HP-A8C, and at work I'm using FiiO E10K. Both are dac/amp integrated.
They are very easy to drive, but requires a minimum of good source to really appreciate them a minimum.
Feel free to ask if you have any other question


----------



## TheoS53

So, I finally received the first part of my order, still waiting for about another dozen or so earbuds to arrive (hopefully it won't take more than about another week).

The ones that I received today are the RY04, RY4S UE, GM500, Snow Lotus 1+ CE, and Snow Lotus 2.0.

It's still early impressions, but I gotta say that I'm having a hard time deciding if I like the RY4S UE or SL 2.0 more. I definitely prefer the build and cable of the SL, but both have very enjoyable sound signatures. The GM500 is rather disappointing, especially since it's the most expensive of the buds that have arrived so far. But I'm looking forward to spending more time with them and comparing these to the next batch of buds.


----------



## viatraco

viatraco said:


> Please, could you give 3-4 links for earbuds based on genuine PK1 drivers ? From trusted manufacturers/sellers and cheapest
> I want to try their sound signature.
> PK1 are fairly balanced or mid-forward, warm ?
> Thank you in advance.



@HungryPanda @ClieOS and other erbud Sisters and Brothers, please advise


----------



## ClieOS

viatraco said:


> @HungryPanda @ClieOS and other erbud Sisters and Brothers, please advise



You can get it from Amazon, which Hifiman is still selling them. They are Yuin official distributor internationally. Otherwise there are a few official retailer on Taobao as well, but they don't ship to most international location.


----------



## TheoS53

Ok, so here are a few more impression. I'm not gonna go into too much detail as I'll leave that for my full written and video reviews. 

This is also with reference to my HD58X as the entire idea for me was to try and find something similar to the 58X in a portable package. Of course, the 58X is not considered as a "reference class" type of signature, but I think it should be considered as an excellent signature when taking into account the price (even a double the price)

RY04 - fairly smooth signature, but sounds a little hollow (slightly recessed vocals). Lacks warmth and deeper bass notes. Sounds overall a bit mid-centric.

Edifier H180 - somewhat similar to RY04 in smoothness, but less of a hollow sound, more balanced overall...really good detail retrieval in cymbals. 

RY4S - warmer than 58X, more bass especially a noticeable rumble in the sub-bass region, but bass overall is a bit too much for me (just a bit), lacks some finer details and some smoothness, but overall exceptionally impressive for the price. 

Snow Lotus 1+ CE - also slight recess in the vocals, overall reasonably smooth

Snow Lotus 2.0 - quite punchy, but again has some recessed vocals (more than SL 1+ CE) that makes the sound overall seem more hollow which tilts more towards a bassy signature but lacks the sub-bass found on the RY4S.

GM500 - most expensive earbud in this group, but sounds the worst to me. Has the most recessed vocals, less treble extension than the SL 2.0


At first I thought I preferred the SL 2.0 over the 1+ CE, but after comparing them directly with the 58X the 1+ CE is closer. If I could get the smoothness of the 1+ CE with the bit more forward vocals and deeper bass extension (but not overall bass level) of the RY4S, I'd be very happy. But, for now, i think the RY4S is my favourite so far. 

Looking forward to receiving my next bunch of buds.


----------



## mbwilson111

TheoS53 said:


> RY04 - fairly smooth signature, but sounds a little hollow (slightly recessed vocals). Lacks warmth and deeper bass notes. Sounds overall a bit mid-centric



People do not talk about the RY04 much.    If I just relax with these my brain quickly adjusts to the signature and I find the sound addictive and mesmerizing with my music.   Great soundstage and mids (vocals) are the most important to me much of the time. Plus they are comfortable for me.  I don't hear them as hollow.

You are brave to take on so many at one time!  I need to listen to each one for several hours to get a feel for it.  That is why I cannot do the kind of comparison that you are doing.  I usually end up like them all for different reasons.


----------



## TheoS53

mbwilson111 said:


> People do not talk about the RY04 much.    If I just relax with these my brain quickly adjusts to the signature and I find the sound addictive and mesmerizing with my music.   Great soundstage and mids (vocals) are the most important to me much of the time. Plus they are comfortable for me.  I don't hear them as hollow.
> 
> You are brave to take on so many at one time!  I need to listen to each one for several hours to get a feel for it.  That is why I cannot do the kind of comparison that you are doing.  I usually end up like them all for different reasons.



Oh I don't think any of these sound inherently bad, and I definitely can see people liking the RY04. But as you said, it takes some brain burn in. Listening to one set for a minute or so and then switching to the next allows me to pretty quickly see how one set compares to another.


----------



## mbwilson111

TheoS53 said:


> Listening to one set for a minute or so and then switching to the next allows me to pretty quickly see how one set compares to another.



If I try to do that, nothing sounds right.   My impressions are generally about my long term listening experience.

This is why I have not said much about the Smabat yet.  Love them but don't know what to say.


----------



## CyberGhost

rkw said:


> I have Yuin PK2 and PK3, and they both have grey lettering like in your picture. Years ago, I had Yuins with white lettering.



Thanks!

So, did they change the way they printed labels some time during the production or do they just fade I wonder?


----------



## silverfishla

mbwilson111 said:


> If I try to do that, nothing sounds right.   My impressions are generally about my long term listening experience.
> 
> This is why I have not said much about the Smabat yet.  Love them but don't know what to say.


But I would really love to hear what you have to say about thE Smabat... . How about the build quality?  If not listening impressions yet?


----------



## viatraco

ClieOS said:


> You can get it from Amazon, which Hifiman is still selling them. They are Yuin official distributor internationally. Otherwise there are a few official retailer on Taobao as well, but they don't ship to most international location.



Thanks
If any other manufacturers use PK1 driver inside their product ? For example: Linsoul in BLD 150 version ?


----------



## TheoS53

mbwilson111 said:


> If I try to do that, nothing sounds right.   My impressions are generally about my long term listening experience.
> 
> This is why I have not said much about the Smabat yet.  Love them but don't know what to say.



The problem with long-term listening impressions are that they tend to be less reliable, especially for comparisons. 

It's pretty cool that our brains have the ability to adapt to sounds, to essentially block out unwanted stuff...but that also makes it ridiculously unreliable because we don't have a constant and fixed reference point.
People who say "trust your ears" either haven't realised or choose to remain ignorant to just how easily influenced and unreliable our perceptions of the world can be.


----------



## fairx

Looking forward any comparison between smabat / k's 500 600 samsara / puresounds. Especially in bass agility / punch, blackness and midrange.


----------



## Themilkman46290

Yeah, my wife has been wanting a totl level bud, I love my samsara's and I also would love Iike to know what you guys think about the smabat vs samsara's and 500,600


----------



## raghav20

TheoS53 said:


> Ok, so here are a few more impression. I'm not gonna go into too much detail as I'll leave that for my full written and video reviews.
> 
> This is also with reference to my HD58X as the entire idea for me was to try and find something similar to the 58X in a portable package. Of course, the 58X is not considered as a "reference class" type of signature, but I think it should be considered as an excellent signature when taking into account the price (even a double the price)
> 
> ...


Are you using RY4S normal version or UE version
If both, then is there much difference between the two


----------



## TheoS53

raghav20 said:


> Are you using RY4S normal version or UE version
> If both, then is there much difference between the two



I've got the UE...I was thinking of getting the other version as well to compare, but in the end only went for the UE


----------



## Jsingh4

Themilkman46290 said:


> Yeah, my wife has been wanting a totl level bud, I love my samsara's and I also would love Iike to know what you guys think about the smabat vs samsara's and 500,600




Can we also include VE ZEN ZOE, K's LHF, Seahf AWK-F650S, TY Hi-Z HP-650, 
MusicMake TONEKING TO600 and ShozyBK/Stardust to this.


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Apr 17, 2019)

Jsingh4 said:


> Can we also include VE ZEN ZOE, K's LHF, Seahf AWK-F650S, TY Hi-Z HP-650,
> MusicMake TONEKING TO600 and ShozyBK/Stardust to this.


I don't know, the Zoe cost alot more, same as the lhf. I would think they will be better but it's a whole different price tier isn't it? The smabat, samsara,500 ,600 are all around $100-120 but the lhf and Zoe are pushing $200. It would be apples to oranges wouldn't it? Altho the ty hi-z , seahf and toneking would be in that tier


----------



## TheoS53

Themilkman46290 said:


> I don't know, the Zoe cost alot more, same as the lhf. I would think they will be better but it's a whole different price tier isn't it? The smabat, samsara,500 ,600 are all around $100-120 but the lhf and Zoe are pushing $200. It would be apples to oranges wouldn't it? Altho the ty hi-z , seahf and toneking would be in that tier



Never assume that there's a direct link between price and performance. Ideally there should be, but in reality this is often not the case.


----------



## Jsingh4

Themilkman46290 said:


> I don't know, the Zoe cost alot more, same as the lhf. I would think they will be better but it's a whole different price tier isn't it? The smabat, samsara,500 ,600 are all around $100-120 but the lhf and Zoe are pushing $200. It would be apples to oranges wouldn't it? Altho the ty hi-z , seahf and toneking would be in that tier



Yes you are right, can we consider including Seahf AWK-F650S, TY Hi-Z HP-650,
MusicMake TONEKING TO600 ?


----------



## Jsingh4

TheoS53 said:


> Never assume that there's a direct link between price and performance. Ideally there should be, but in reality this is often not the case.



Yes, Even I wanted to know the quality comparison.


----------



## mbwilson111

TheoS53 said:


> The problem with long-term listening impressions are that they tend to be less reliable, especially for comparisons.
> 
> It's pretty cool that our brains have the ability to adapt to sounds, to essentially block out unwanted stuff...but that also makes it ridiculously unreliable because we don't have a constant and fixed reference point.
> People who say "trust your ears" either haven't realised or choose to remain ignorant to just how easily influenced and unreliable our perceptions of the world can be.



You do realize that you just called me unreliable and ignorant right?  Nobody should listen to me... I am only a music lover.


----------



## TheoS53

Lol, I said we are all unreliable.....that's just a fact of life. We can choose to accept it and create all kinds of fancy tools to overcome our own limitations, or we can choose to ignore it and believe what we want to believe...but that would make it religious


----------



## mbwilson111

...or we can relax and listen to some great music.


----------



## TheoS53

mbwilson111 said:


> ...or we can relax and listen to some great music.



Oh absolutely. It's just once someone starts asking for impressions, recommendations, and comparisons, I wanna make sure that I give them the correct information, not just what I _*think*_ is correct based on my own subjective perceptions. If getting to the truth of the matter requires removing my own biases or limitations, then that's what needs to be done.


----------



## ClieOS

viatraco said:


> Thanks
> If any other manufacturers use PK1 driver inside their product ? For example: Linsoul in BLD 150 version ?



PK1 driver has been well imitated by others (it was commonly referred as the 'red diaphragm' driver as real PK1 driver is partially red), but there is never a confirmed case of anyone else besides Yuin that can produce the exact same sounding driver over the year. For what I know, Yuin makes their driver in house and thus no one else was able to get that driver besides buying a real PK1 and take that driver out.


----------



## Zerohour88

review of the Smabat ST-10 by bisonicr:

http://bisonicr.ldblog.jp/archives/55759323.html

he finds it neutral, I think? a mid-treble focused earbud but with the nice low-end supplemented by the unique maze design reverb


----------



## waynes world

Zerohour88 said:


> review of the Smabat ST-10 by bisonicr:
> 
> http://bisonicr.ldblog.jp/archives/55759323.html
> 
> he finds it neutral, I think? a mid-treble focused earbud but with the nice low-end supplemented by the unique maze design reverb



Huh - so nobody likes the Smabat ST-10 then!







Just kidding! But seriously, I would sure like to hear them to make sure they fit my preferences. 

Here's a quote:


> There is a possibility that it is reminiscent of a cold-colored canal-type earphone, so it may not be suitable for those who like warm earphones, but I think it is a product that can be recommended to many people.



Interesting. The Svara L's (32ohms) seem slightly warm to me and fit my preferences (same with Yincrow RW-9's). I'm hoping that the Smabat ST-10's are not too much brighter.


----------



## mbwilson111

TheoS53 said:


> If getting to the truth of the matter requires removing my own biases or limitations, then that's what needs to be done.



...and how exactly do you manage to do this?


----------



## theoutsider (Apr 17, 2019)

DBaldock9 said:


> The K's 600 that I ordered have arrived today.
> They measure 516Ω (Left) and 520Ω (Right).
> Using Hiegi Donut Foams, these earbuds really do sound good.
> 
> ...


Since you have both Svara-L and Smabat, did you notice any physical difference between the two (aside from the logo)?

I remember Svara was once rebranded as Escape. I can't help but to wonder if this is another rebranding exercise? Also, I am curious to know if they all share the same maze-shaped acoustic cavity.


----------



## rkw (Apr 17, 2019)

Zerohour88 said:


> a mid-treble focused earbud but with the nice low-end supplemented by the *unique maze design reverb*


Does the Smabat ST-10 have a reverb sound? I'm put off by the reverb I hear in some MX500 shell earbuds, such as Venture Electronics. The reverb sounds artificial and unnatural to me for acoustic instruments (classical music).


----------



## TheoS53

mbwilson111 said:


> ...and how exactly do you manage to do this?



Well, as we've established, none of us are immune to brain burn in...so I find it best to try and avoid this, or "correct" it. 

I suppose to illustrate what I mean is to draw your attention to your nose. Ever noticed how you don't actually see it? Yet if you close 1 eye, then you can pretty clearly see the one side of your nose. Seeing your nose is useless info, so your brain has blocked it out. Your brain does similar things with slight flaws in the signature of headphones...eventually your hearing adapts and "neutralises" it. 
Another example would be if you were to go outside on a bright sunny day (no sunglasses). At first it will seem too bright, but after some time your eyes adapt. Then if you were to go back inside suddenly the inside of your house might seem super dark (much darker than what it was before you went outside). Of course the light level inside the house most likely didn't change, but your senses have..and so you'll need to wait a bit for them to reset to the new conditions again. 

Our hearing undergoes the same process of adaption. It's great for evolutionary survival..but really annoying when trying to compare headphones lol. 

For that reason long term impressions are pointless (in terms of describing it to someone else), as by that time my brain would've adjusted and filtered out certain flaws, whereas the person I'm describing it to hasn't had a chance to do that. It's for this reason that 2 people could describe the same headphone in pretty different manners.
So, for that reason I still have the RE-400 which has a very neutral signature. I don't use them for listening to music other than to "reset" my hearing. and when I compare headphones against each other I don't listen to them for longer than about 3 or 4 mins (roughly the length of a single song) before moving onto the next set. That's enough time to get my brain to adjust a bit to the one set, and then when I move on to the next it's easier to tell how the signature of one compares to the other.


----------



## mbwilson111

TheoS53 said:


> Well, as we've established, none of us are immune to brain burn in...so I find it best to try and avoid this, or "correct" it.
> 
> I suppose to illustrate what I mean is to draw your attention to your nose. Ever noticed how you don't actually see it? Yet if you close 1 eye, then you can pretty clearly see the one side of your nose. Seeing your nose is useless info, so your brain has blocked it out. Your brain does similar things with slight flaws in the signature of headphones...eventually your hearing adapts and "neutralises" it.
> Another example would be if you were to go outside on a bright sunny day (no sunglasses). At first it will seem too bright, but after some time your eyes adapt. Then if you were to go back inside suddenly the inside of your house might seem super dark (much darker than what it was before you went outside). Of course the light level inside the house most likely didn't change, but your senses have..and so you'll need to wait a bit for them to reset to the new conditions again.
> ...



I get listeners fatigue very easily.   One of the most important things for me to know is if a certain bud, iem or headphone will be suitable for long term late night listening.  Often I will start listening to music and end up listening to several albums in a row.   What you are trying to do tells me nothing about enjoyment.   Graphs tell me nothing about tonality which is also important to me.  If a cello does not sound like a cello... what is the point?  If Leonard Cohen does not sound like Leonard Cohen then, again, what is the point?

As for signature, I can enjoy many signatures.  Nothing wrong with that.  I just get into the music with whatever is in my ears.  Obviously the bud cannot be bad or that will not happen.

I think that sometimes people agonize too  much over the decision.  Just buy something that seems generally like that is in your budget and enjoy your music.

One reason I have so much stuff is not because I was dissatisfied and looking for better.... I just get curious when people talk about new products.  Plus some buds look really cool.  Another reason I have so much stuff is because... .Headfi


----------



## theoutsider

I think Smabat applied for some patents ... maybe ST-10 is a unique design.






*picture originated from an unboxing video.


----------



## mbwilson111

theoutsider said:


> I think Smabat applied for some patents ... maybe ST-10 is a unique design.



The St-10 is the same form factor as the Savara - L.   Very well built and comfortable.


----------



## TheoS53 (Apr 17, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I get listeners fatigue very easily.   One of the most important things for me to know is if a certain bud, iem or headphone will be suitable for long term late night listening.  Often I will start listening to music and end up listening to several albums in a row.   What you are trying to do tells me nothing about enjoyment.   Graphs tell me nothing about tonality which is also important to me.  If a cello does not sound like a cello... what is the point?  If Leonard Cohen does not sound like Leonard Cohen then, again, what is the point?
> 
> As for signature, I can enjoy many signatures.  Nothing wrong with that.  I just get into the music with whatever is in my ears.  Obviously the bud cannot be bad or that will not happen.
> 
> ...




Ok, so if we use your example of "if a cello doesn't sound like a cello, what's the point?". Well, that is a very good point.....but you might listen to headphone X, and the particular instrument might not sound quite like a cello to you, but then another person who has spent a lot of time with those headphones and have acclimated to them might very well hear the instrument as a cello. So in that case, who is right?
So for personal experiences, then I say hell yeah long term testing is the way to go...but once we get to a point when you try to convey the sound of a particular headphone to another person, it becomes really difficult if both of you are not at the same stage of brain burn in for that headphone.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with how you are doing things, because you're doing it for personal reasons.
In my case it's vastly different as I need to try and give someone who is looking at buying a particular product a realistic expectation of what that product is going to sound like when they hear it for the first time. Of course I can't account for whatever signature they prefer or have become accustomed to, so the closest I can get is to try and exclude me own preferences and reset my hearing 

Oh, just to add. You said "*What you are trying to do tells me nothing about enjoyment*".
Well, that's impossible for anyone to do really as "enjoyment" is subjective. Neither I nor anyone else can tell you with any certainty that you will enjoy a particular headphone any more than what I can tell you that you will enjoy a particular type of food. 
But what we can do is describe how one set of headphones sound relative to another.


----------



## Jsingh4

Can anybody compare Ty HI-Z HP 650 with Smabat St-10


----------



## Dabbaranks

Good news, Rosemary’s came in yesterday, and I’m very happy with them, finally get to use the high gain on my q5. Bad news, I think my last willsound order has gone missing  it’s been in transit since feb 28.


----------



## mbwilson111

Dabbaranks said:


> Good news, Rosemary’s came in yesterday, and I’m very happy with them, finally get to use the high gain on my q5. Bad news, I think my last willsound order has gone missing  it’s been in transit since feb 28.




I hope they turn up.  I know sometimes things take a long time in Canada.

The Rosemary's are great.  FAAEAL makes really good buds.


----------



## Dabbaranks

mbwilson111 said:


> I hope they turn up.  I know sometimes things take a long time in Canada.
> 
> The Rosemary's are great.  FAAEAL makes really good buds.



Thanks for the good wishes, I’m still hoping your first set of orange kubes show up


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 17, 2019)

Dabbaranks said:


> Thanks for the good wishes, I’m still hoping your first set of orange kubes show up



They arrived in the country on January 30th!  Luckily the other package that arrived at the same time and had three buds in it did make it to my house.  That one had my purple kube, my Kube2 and my husbands blue kube.  I have since safely received two orange kubes- one for me and one for my husband.  a white kube for em and two ANN 200.   Also another package containing two Sabia Pearls.   The seller and I are both thinking that maybe the package with just the one orange kube was too little and slipped through the cracks somewhere.  Of course I do not expect him to replace it... it was the Royal Mails fault... not his.. not mine.

edit... can't forget the FAAEAL Earbud Original Batch  bud that I also got from him.. that was in one of the packages that arrived.  A lot of exciting deliveries.

Now to have a good listen with the Smabat!


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> They arrived in the country on January 30th!  Luckily the other package that arrived at the same time and had three buds in it did make it to my house.  That one had my purple kube, my Kube2 and my husbands blue kube.  I have since safely received two orange kubes- one for me and one for my husband.  a white kube for em and two ANN 200.   Also another package containing two Sabia Pearls.   The seller and I are both thinking that maybe the package with just the one orange kube was too little and slipped through the cracks somewhere.  Of course I do not expect him to replace it... it was the Royal Mails fault... not his.. not mine.



If jultoptau likes you a lot, I wouldn't be surprised! 



> edit... can't forget the FAAEAL Earbud Original Batch  bud that I also got from him.. that was in one of the packages that arrived.  A lot of exciting deliveries.



They are pretty good as well! Got to dig mine out.



> Now to have a good listen with the Smabat!



Not jealous at all!


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 17, 2019)

waynes world said:


> If jultoptau likes you a lot, I wouldn't be surprised!



I ordered and received another.with other things that I ordered.  So I do have one.  If the first one ever turns up I will have a spare.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 17, 2019)

Upon public request is my colleague Dr. Schweinsgruber unboxing two new and interesting earbuds: the ISN Audio Rambo and the Smabat ST-10. Warning: unboxing is generally really boring -- please ignore these two video clips, and please don't blame me for anything, you do this at your own risk.



Spoiler: Unboxing the Rambo










Spoiler: Unboxing the Smabat


----------



## ClieOS (Apr 17, 2019)

theoutsider said:


> Since you have both Svara-L and Smabat, did you notice any physical difference between the two (aside from the logo)?
> 
> I remember Svara was once rebranded as Escape. I can't help but to wonder if this is another rebranding exercise? Also, I am curious to know if they all share the same maze-shaped acoustic cavity.



The 'escape' branding isn't the idea from the maker of Svara / Smabat, that's the idea of the Aliexpress reseller - they often like to take existing Chinese earphone and rebranded them to their own name in order to differentiate their goods from other Ali seller (who sold the same thing).Sometime it is done to differentiate the same product for domestic / oversea market.

Regardless - Svara-L (and -M) does not have the maze design as the design has not been completed when Svara series was first released. They have an acoustic chamber but it is not a maze. The first maze design was used on the fairly short lived Svara Pro, then further refined on the Smabat ST-10 (*the internal isn't exact the same). Neither Svara nor Smabat are rebranded as they are by the same guy. When he was making Svara, he was also working full time for another headphone maker so Svara is more or less a personal side business . Now he opens up his own company and thus using the new name of Smabat.


----------



## hongky

Can anybody compare Smabat St-10 with Toneking TO600
I really love TO600, is St-10 an upgrade to TO600

TIA


----------



## Grev

Anybody have the Penon bs1 official and the Nicehck ebx?

I have the bs1 official and just want to know how they compare.


----------



## DBaldock9

ClieOS said:


> The 'escape' branding isn't the idea from the maker of Svara / Smabat, that's the idea of the Aliexpress reseller - they often like to take existing Chinese earphone and rebranded them to their own name in order to differentiate their goods from other Ali seller (who sold the same thing).Sometime it is done to differentiate the same product for domestic / oversea market.
> 
> Regardless - Svara-L (and -M) does not have the maze design as the design has not been completed when Svara series was first released. They have an acoustic chamber but it is not a maze. The first maze design was used on the fairly short lived Svara Pro, then further refined on the Smabat ST-10 (*the internal isn't exact the same). Neither Svara nor Smabat are rebranded as they are by the same guy. When he was making Svara, he was also working full time for another headphone maker so Svara is more or less a personal side business . Now he opens up his own company and thus using the new name of Smabat.



In one of the images regarding the ST-10, a Transmission Line speaker enclosure is shown. I've built Transmission Line loudspeakers, and know that for low frequencies, the line has to be longer than what would fit inside an earbud backshell.
.
A traditional Transmission Line is designed to have a length that's 1/4 of the resonant frequency of the bass driver. If you're going for 20Hz, then the length of the line would be 14-ft.
.


----------



## audiohurric4ne

Dabbaranks said:


> Good news, Rosemary’s came in yesterday, and I’m very happy with them, finally get to use the high gain on my q5. Bad news, I think my last willsound order has gone missing  it’s been in transit since feb 28.



where can i get that donut foam ? looks wider than the one that comes with rosemary.


----------



## Dabbaranks

audiohurric4ne said:


> where can i get that donut foam ? looks wider than the one that comes with rosemary.



If I remember correctly, these came with my kube v1/v2 and Sabia Pearl order from jultoptau and are the widest hole donut foams I’ve tried and didn’t notice till I put them on the rosemary’s.


----------



## ClieOS

DBaldock9 said:


> In one of the images regarding the ST-10, a Transmission Line speaker enclosure is shown.



Don't think the length will matter anyway. The concept of Transmission Line speaker design is to let the back pressure from the speaker driver overlapping the front pressure to create resonance of sort. But for an earbud, the back pressure won't reach the eardrum (as the driver's housing has blocked most of the earcanal's opening) even if you can somehow manage to squeeze enough length into the design. While the maze design is no doubt inspired by Transmission Line speaker, I won't say it works the same way. But somehow the maze does have positive impact to the overall sound as blocking the vent will definitely affect the clean bass and none of the old Svara can get such a clean and deep reaching bass with just an acoustic chamber.


----------



## DBaldock9

ClieOS said:


> Don't think the length will matter anyway. The concept of Transmission Line speaker design is to let the back pressure from the speaker driver overlapping the front pressure to create resonance of sort. But for an earbud, the back pressure won't reach the eardrum (as the driver's housing has blocked most of the earcanal's opening) even if you can somehow manage to squeeze enough length into the design. While the maze design is no doubt inspired by Transmission Line speaker, I won't say it works the same way. But somehow the maze does have positive impact to the overall sound as blocking the vent will definitely affect the clean bass and none of the old Svara can get such a clean and deep reaching bass with just an acoustic chamber.



I've got the first version of the Svara-L (115Ω), and the second version (32Ω), but I didn't order the Pro model.
Now that the Smabat ST-10 has arrived, I agree that it has a better quality & quantity of low Bass performance.


----------



## assassin10000

DBaldock9 said:


> I've got the first version of the Svara-L (115Ω), and the second version (32Ω), but I didn't order the Pro model.
> Now that the Smabat ST-10 has arrived, I agree that it has a better quality & quantity of low Bass performance.



More of a tuned port than transmission line then.


----------



## chinmie

ClieOS said:


> Don't think the length will matter anyway. The concept of Transmission Line speaker design is to let the back pressure from the speaker driver overlapping the front pressure to create resonance of sort. But for an earbud, the back pressure won't reach the eardrum (as the driver's housing has blocked most of the earcanal's opening) even if you can somehow manage to squeeze enough length into the design. While the maze design is no doubt inspired by Transmission Line speaker, I won't say it works the same way. But somehow the maze does have positive impact to the overall sound as blocking the vent will definitely affect the clean bass and none of the old Svara can get such a clean and deep reaching bass with just an acoustic chamber.





DBaldock9 said:


> I've got the first version of the Svara-L (115Ω), and the second version (32Ω), but I didn't order the Pro model.
> Now that the Smabat ST-10 has arrived, I agree that it has a better quality & quantity of low Bass performance.



i don't need another earbud.. . i don't need another earbud.....i don't need another earbud


----------



## TheoS53

Have any of you guys ordered from the ***** Earphones Store *on AE? If so, how was your experience?

They waited until practically the last second of the processing window to ship my items, but now after another 10 days I still have no tracking information. It's been a total of 3 weeks since I placed the order and have no idea when or even if I will receive the items.


----------



## assassin10000

@TheoS53 https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1978#post-14135342


----------



## TheoS53

assassin10000 said:


> @TheoS53 https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1978#post-14135342



Oh wow, thanks for that. Had no idea...I wish I had asked about them sooner.


----------



## doldoy

I run the headphone test here: https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php for my Toneking TP16 and Ve Monk Lite, at the "Driver Matching" (Full Range Sweep) test I can hear somekind of a beep sound (or squeaky sound if you use high amplify setting with 100% volume) in the left earpiece at around 8th or 9th second of the test. For my TY Hi-Z 32, I can only hear very thin beep sound. The other earbuds like vido, yincrow x6, ve monk+ don't have this beep sound on the test. Anyone know what does this mean?

This issue is related to my previous post here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2740#post-14868995. With this issue, I have to shelve the Toneking TP16 and Ve Monk Lite since the beep sound issue ruins the listening experience. FYI, I have bought the Ve Monk Lite twice and they both have same issue, so it seems it's not a defective driver issue.

-------

I have another question too about earbud recommendation. I'm thinking to buy either of k's 64 (normal black cable), qian25, or qian69. 

FYI I already have yincrow x6, vido, ve monk+, TY Hi-Z 32. Do you think one of them is better than those earbuds I've owned? If so, which one would you recommend?


----------



## activatorfly

chinmie said:


> i don't need another earbud.. . i don't need another earbud.....i don't need another earbud


I do need another earbud! haha!


----------



## mbwilson111

TheoS53 said:


> It's been a total of 3 weeks since I placed the order and have no idea when or even if I will receive the items.



This can happen with many of the sellers when you order during a huge sale.  Sometimes the products are not in their possession yet but they are giving a good price.  I have had things arrive anywhere between 6 days and six weeks... including from the store in question.    The average time is usually between 10 days and 3 weeks.   Earbuds and iems usually arrive more quickly than accessories like foams and cases.

Sometimes a polite message to the seller helps and you will be given an explanation or tracking number.  Just tell them you are worried that it is lost.    Where are you located?


----------



## TheoS53 (Apr 18, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> This can happen with many of the sellers when you order during a huge sale.  Sometimes the products are not in their possession yet but they are giving a good price.  I have had things arrive anywhere between 6 days and six weeks... including from the store in question.    The average time is usually between 10 days and 3 weeks.   Earbuds and iems usually arrive more quickly than accessories like foams and cases.
> 
> Sometimes a polite message to the seller helps and you will be given an explanation or tracking number.  Just tell them you are worried that it is lost.    Where are you located?



Yeah maybe because it's my first time ordering from AE that I'm a little on edge, but the fact that it wasn't updated as being shipped until after I had contacted them, and now there's still no indication of it actually having been shipped.

I guess I'll give em another day or so before I file a dispute. Thanks for the reply.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 18, 2019)

TheoS53 said:


> Yeah maybe because it's my first time ordering from AE that I'm a little on edge, but the fact that it wasn't updated as being shipped until after I had unity contacted them, and now there's still no indication of it actually having been shipped.
> 
> I guess I'll give em another day or so before I file a dispute. Thanks for the reply.



Actual aliexpress disputes cannot be done this soon.  The sellers will do anything to avoid an actual dispute.  Stay in touch with the seller... especially if you still want the item for the price you paid.  We have had many things suddenly appear without the tracking ever working.

Edit:  It is my understanding that the seller does not get the money until you confirm delivery.  Aliexpress is holding the money.  Someone please correct me if this is wrong.


----------



## chickenmoon

mbwilson111 said:


> Actual aliexpress disputes cannot be done this soon.  The sellers will do anything to avoid an actual dispute.  Stay in touch with the seller... especially if you still want the item for the price you paid.  We have had many things suddenly appear without the tracking ever working.
> 
> Edit:  It is my understanding that the seller does not get the money until you confirm delivery.  Aliexpress is holding the money.  Someone please correct me if this is wrong.



Aliexpress holds the money in escrow and the seller only gets paid  once the buyer confirms delivery or the 60 days delivery period expires.  This means that if your item has not arrived after 58 or 59 days you must open a dispute before the delivery period expires or you likely lose your money. I lost a few quids like that once.


----------



## mbwilson111

chickenmoon said:


> Aliexpress holds the money in escrow and the seller only gets paid  once the buyer confirms delivery or the 60 days delivery period expires.  This means that if your item has not arrived after 58 or 59 days you must open a dispute before the delivery period expires or you likely lose your money. I lost a few quids like that once.



So, if the delivery period of 60 days has expired and you have not filed a dispute, the seller gets paid at that point... without confirmation of delivery?


----------



## chickenmoon (Apr 18, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> So, if the delivery period of 60 days has expired and you have not filed a dispute, the seller gets paid at that point... without confirmation of delivery?



That's what I found out. I had a small purchase that didn't seem to arrive, then I forgot about it because it was very little money and not important.. When I remembered about it the delivery period had just expired and it was marked as finalized. I tried then contacting the seller but never got an answer.


----------



## zozito

chickenmoon said:


> That's what I found out. I had a small purchase that didn't seem to arrive, then I forgot about it because it was very little money and not important.. When I remembered about it the delivery period had just expired and it was marked as finalized. I tried then contacting the seller but never got an answer.


Actually, I think you have several days, 5 I think after tje seller mark the order as received or expire the 2 months of guaranteed delivery.


----------



## subwoof3r (Apr 18, 2019)

Never heard bass going so low than on ST-10 (from any other earbuds I listened), to me this "Transmission Line speaker enclosure" works pretty well and is a bug success that I really would want to see on other earbuds if possible (depending on shells of course).
My pair has now approx 70 hours of proper burning : I'm just in heaven! Bravo Smabat 
A full review will be made soon, stay tuned.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 18, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> Never heard bass going so low than on ST-10 (from any other earbuds I listened), to me this "Transmission Line speaker enclosure" works pretty well and is a bug success that I really would want to see on other earbuds if possible (depending on shells of course).
> My pair has now approx 70 hours of proper burning : I'm just in heaven! Bravo Smabat
> A full review wil be made soon, stay tuned.


This enclosure + bass heavy driver like vido/ws mk1-2/zen would be interesting.

If this does infact make the bass deeper without adding to the mid bass these would be great candidates for modding.


----------



## HungryPanda

@doldoy never a good idea to run any earbud at 100% volume, would you drive your speakers at full volume wth an amp and they are not as fragile


----------



## ClieOS

chinmie said:


> i don't need another earbud.. . i don't need another earbud.....i don't need another earbud




*BUY BUY BUY BUY BUY*   



doldoy said:


> I run the headphone test here: https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php for my Toneking TP16 and Ve Monk Lite, at the "Driver Matching" (Full Range Sweep) test I can hear somekind of a beep sound (or squeaky sound if you use high amplify setting with 100% volume) in the left earpiece at around 8th or 9th second of the test. For my TY Hi-Z 32, I can only hear very thin beep sound. The other earbuds like vido, yincrow x6, ve monk+ don't have this beep sound on the test. Anyone know what does this mean?
> 
> This issue is related to my previous post here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2740#post-14868995. With this issue, I have to shelve the Toneking TP16 and Ve Monk Lite since the beep sound issue ruins the listening experience. FYI, I have bought the Ve Monk Lite twice and they both have same issue, so it seems it's not a defective driver issue.



If the same problem shows up on multiple earbuds, then it is likely it is not an actual defect of the earbuds but either related to your source (sound card etc) or simply just a combination of the earbuds' FR curve + your hearing.sensitivity over certain range.


----------



## capnjack

Just ordered some of these, anyone got a pair? 
They come in 32/64/150ohm flavours with mmcx connectors or hard wired.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

I receive 2 new earbuds lately, one that I don't even care to talk about as first impressions was just okay, and similar to NiceHCK EB2 (anyway, I can,t talk about this brand here, BK2-great built okay sound)

But, when i'm blown away with first impressions of an earbuds, i need to share.

YES THE *SMABAT ST-10* SOUND EXTREMELY GOOD.

One of the best balanced earbuds i heard up to now. Soundstage is quite airy but especially very deep. Bass extend well due to overall very clean and delicate presentation. It dig very low and have quite a good sub body without big slam or bright timbre. Its thick and well definite.
MIDS are very transparent and wide, wich is where the magic happen, due to excellent instrument separation.
Highs have good attack and brilliance, smoothly crisp, no harshness anywhere with the ST-10.
This how a good near neutral tuning should sound: MUSICAL, not boring.

Yep, very impress by those and I can rank them side to side with EBX, wich is a little brighter and sharper.


----------



## doldoy (Apr 18, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> @doldoy never a good idea to run any earbud at 100% volume, would you drive your speakers at full volume wth an amp and they are not as fragile


yeah I know, I'm just saying the beep sound sounds like squeaky sound on the louder volume. The problem didn't show up suddenly, it's been like that since the beginning I received the earbuds. I've also tried burn-in and it didn't make a change.



ClieOS said:


> If the same problem shows up on multiple earbuds, then it is likely it is not an actual defect of the earbuds but either related to your source (sound card etc) or simply just a combination of the earbuds' FR curve + your hearing.sensitivity over certain range.


I had tried them on multiple devices (different pc and smartphone), same results. So certainly it's not the sound card issue. If my ear is sensitive at higher range, then logically shouldn't the beep sound be heard continuously from 8th second and over instead just one time beep at the 8th second ? Also, I have tried swapping the earpieces between my left and right ear, and the result is same, the beep sound always shows up in the left earpiece.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

I don't have time listening to ST-10 THAT much today, but their stock in there, can't do nothing, i'm paralize and only life trough floating sound and swiming in infinite imaging.

First impressions I was not even wearing it over ears and now the bass became way weightier, but again, the mid range...or did i prefer the clean treble with good brilliance and decay? Man, these are perhaps my favorite earbuds....need to compare them to EBX, but as said: ST-10 are stock in there.

That's a very rewarding holographic musical experience to listen to this song with the Xduoo TA-10 amp.


----------



## jibberish

I really struggled between buying the EBX or ST-10 during last month's sale.  In the end I decided to go with the EBX, because they have been around longer and there were a lot more reviews to go on, seemed a safer bet, let all the ST-10 reviews roll in and then decide if I want to buy it later.  Now all of you are making me think I might regret that decision of buying the EBX.

(I obviously should've bought both)


----------



## mbwilson111

jibberish said:


> (I obviously should've bought both)



obviously...


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

jibberish said:


> I really struggled between buying the EBX or ST-10 during last month's sale.  In the end I decided to go with the EBX, because they have been around longer and there were a lot more reviews to go on, seemed a safer bet, let all the ST-10 reviews roll in and then decide if I want to buy it later.  Now all of you are making me think I might regret that decision of buying the EBX.
> 
> (I obviously should've bought both)



There few earbuds I will cry like a baby if I lost it, EBX is in this very few list.....will share more impressions between those 2, sometime when a new (great) earbuds come in your ears you tend to hysterically praise it (its my style). You do well buying the EBX, especially at last ali sale price (aounrd 70$ i think). Soundstage is even more airier than ST-10.


----------



## jibberish

Yeah, to be clear, I don't regret ordering the EBX at all, I just wish it would hurry up and show up at my house


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> I've got the first version of the Svara-L (115Ω), and the second version (32Ω), but I didn't order the Pro model.
> Now that the Smabat ST-10 has arrived, I agree that it has a better quality & quantity of low Bass performance.





subwoof3r said:


> Never heard bass going so low than on ST-10 (from any other earbuds I listened), to me this "Transmission Line speaker enclosure" works pretty well and is a bug success that I really would want to see on other earbuds if possible (depending on shells of course).
> My pair has now approx 70 hours of proper burning : I'm just in heaven! Bravo Smabat
> A full review will be made soon, stay tuned.





NymPHONOmaniac said:


> I receive 2 new earbuds lately, one that I don't even care to talk about as first impressions was just okay, and similar to NiceHCK EB2 (anyway, I can,t talk about this brand here, BK2-great built okay sound)
> 
> But, when i'm blown away with first impressions of an earbuds, i need to share.
> 
> ...





ClieOS said:


> *BUY BUY BUY BUY BUY*
> 
> 
> 
> If the same problem shows up on multiple earbuds, then it is likely it is not an actual defect of the earbuds but either related to your source (sound card etc) or simply just a combination of the earbuds' FR curve + your hearing.sensitivity over certain range.



Sheesh - stop it already will you all?!!


----------



## toear

waynes world said:


> Sheesh - stop it already will you all?!!


Are you saying we should do a Canuck group buy?


----------



## theoutsider (Apr 19, 2019)

chinmie said:


> Sabbat X12 Pro


Hey Chinmie, on paper Sabbat X12p boasted 8 hours of play time, I wonder if that is true?

Also is it possible to have x12p paired to multiple devices at one time?

I ordered Mi neckband earbuds a month ago and I have yet to receive it, I am suddenly feeling the itch to order another pair of tws :/ Do you still stand by your recommendation of x12p or do you have something new to recommend now?


----------



## TheoS53

mbwilson111 said:


> Actual aliexpress disputes cannot be done this soon.



So, as it turns out, I actually can file a dispute already...yeah, that's how long it has taken them to ship these items lol. 
I did contact them and they said they'll check with the post office. But I dunno, taking into account their reputation on Head-Fi I'm pretty suspicious as to whether or not this is a "post office issue". Will give 'em another day and then I'll start the dispute and refund process.


----------



## chinmie

theoutsider said:


> Hey Chinmie, on paper Sabbat X12p boasted 8 hours of play time, I wonder if that is true?
> 
> Also is it possible to have x12p paired to multiple devices at one time?
> 
> I ordered Mi neckband earbuds a month ago and I have yet to receive it, I am suddenly feeling the itch to order another pair of tws :/ Do you still stand by your recommendation of x12p or do you have something new to recommend now?



yup, surprisingly it does hit around 7 to 8 hours of continuous playtime on bt 5.0 device, as i personally tested both of mine (i like it so much i bought two of them) with my note 8

unfortunately it cannot connect to two device simultaneously. for earbud like formfactor, i can only vouch for the X12pro, because i haven't tested other product. if iem form you're after, i recommend the QCY T1C very much


----------



## DynamicEars

NymPHONOmaniac said:


> I receive 2 new earbuds lately, one that I don't even care to talk about as first impressions was just okay, and similar to NiceHCK EB2 (anyway, I can,t talk about this brand here, BK2-great built okay sound)
> 
> But, when i'm blown away with first impressions of an earbuds, i need to share.
> 
> ...




About the bass how they are compared to? got EBX on my desk currently


----------



## cqtek

Two interesting comparative graphs...


 

Although they are similar, they don't sound the same...


----------



## sareer007

I think everyone should try diy sr2. Its that good. I experienced burn in for the first time with this bud. I am new to this hobby so it was very surprising. I don't know whether its brain burn in or not but initially there was no bass, small soundstage, less details . But after using it daily and burning in overnight for one week everything started to change slowly. Now for the first time i can hear everything in a song and enjoy music. I have only used two other buds than this faael sl1.0+ and willsound mk3. Those two are good but can't compete against sr2 has it simply shows the complete picture of a song. The only problem with it is mids resolution is low compared to mk3.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 19, 2019)

sareer007 said:


> I think everyone should try diy sr2. Its that good. I experienced burn in for the first time with this bud. I am new to this hobby so it was very surprising. I don't know whether its brain burn in or not but initially there was no bass, small soundstage, less details . But after using it daily and burning in overnight for one week everything started to change slowly. Now for the first time i can hear everything in a song and enjoy music. I have only used two other buds than this faael sl1.0+ and willsound mk3. Those two are good but can't compete against sr2 has it simply shows the complete picture of a song. The only problem with it is mids resolution is low compared to mk3.



Yes, the DIY PK2 SR2 (16 ohm) is a great choice for someone wanting  a smaller shell than the commonly used MX500 (monk) shell.  I would not say there was NO bass before burn-in.  Did yours really have none?

edited to add:

I bought mine from an earlier listing.  It came with a very stiff cable so @HungryPanda  re-cabled it for me.  Also, I think @jogawag said he did not like the sound with that cable.   Anyway, here is a photo of the re-cabled SR2 and a photo showing how stiff the other one was... lol.


----------



## sareer007

My sr2 cable doesn't look like that. I bought it from chitty store and before burn in it was literally no subbass and midbass was like so low. Here is the link of my sr2

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/b7xD6yac


----------



## mbwilson111

sareer007 said:


> My sr2 cable doesn't look like that. I bought it from chitty store and before burn in it was literally no subbass and midbass was like so low. Here is the link of my sr2
> 
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/b7xD6yac



That link just takes me to the ali main page but I know the one you mean.  My  husband has that one with the softer cable.  I don't think he plans to recable it.    The drivers should be the same though.  I suppose we should try to compare the sound... but... too many buds...

Mine is this one..the one that jogawag posted last August.  We did not pay this much though at the time.   BEWARE... stiff cable!

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY...hms-150ohms-transparent-film/32801890526.html


----------



## sareer007

I asked the store guys about you sr2 and they said that they sounded the same and only the cable is different.
I listened to this song with sr2 and other buds and its like night and day. You can hear all instruments somewhat seperated in sr2 where as in sl and mk3 its crowded and can't enjoy the song.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 19, 2019)

sareer007 said:


> I asked the store guys about you sr2 and they said that they sounded the same and only the cable is different.
> I listened to this song with sr2 and other buds and its like night and day. You can hear all instruments somewhat seperated in sr2 where as in sl and mk3 its crowded and can't enjoy the song.



You made a good choice.... especially since the cable on the one I got is too stiff to use comfortably.  Enjoy 

I think one reason you are finding it so  much better than the others you mentioned is that the smaller shell probably fits you better.  Fit influences the sound a lot.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

DynamicEars said:


> About the bass how they are compared to? got EBX on my desk currently



Both do really good IMO but ST-10 have thicker rounder lower end, EBX is slightly more mid bass emphased and dryer (wich make EBX more mid centric too).


----------



## jogawag (Apr 19, 2019)

sareer007 said:


> My sr2 cable doesn't look like that. I bought it from chitty store and before burn in it was literally no subbass and midbass was like so low. Here is the link of my sr2
> 
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/b7xD6yac



The actual link you presented is https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801646835.html .
The product requires 100-200 hours of burn-in.
Then the product is somewhat weak in bass, so I am listening to it with a double pad (thin full pad and donut pad).


----------



## mbwilson111

jogawag said:


> The actual link you presented is https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801646835.html .
> The product requires 100-200 hours of burn-in.
> Then the product is somewhat weak in bass, so I listened to it with a double pad (thin full pad and donut pad).



I did give my SR2 the 200 hour burn in after you first said that.  My ears do not need a double pad.


----------



## sareer007

I don't know how many hours my sr2 had. Its like 40 hrs of pure burn-in time and around 50 hrs of watching movies and listening to songs. Initially the bass was too low but it has good amount of bass with only one pad. But the thing is at around 50-60 hrs i could notice a change in bass and the details that were not there started to pop up. It became clearer. The only problem is the vocals. I am used to vocals being inside my head and in this bud its like somewhat infront of you.


----------



## mbwilson111

sareer007 said:


> The only problem is the vocals. I am used to vocals being inside my head and in this bud its like somewhat infront of you.



That would actually be better for movies than being inside your head... but I know what you mean.  By now I am used to a variety of sound signatures and just enjoy it all


----------



## sareer007

Now i am used to it and its actually better. Voices in your front and other sounds in your back. A out of head experience.


----------



## JackFlash

Could someone please provide the approximate relative size of several of the most commonly recommended earbuds? I know some use the same shell (e.g., MX500). I vaguely remember reading a similar size/fit discussion in this thread but cannot locate it now. Thank you!


----------



## audiohurric4ne

so my vido arrived: i just started playing with earbuds few weeks ago. i ordered 4 buds on the same day, my first two buds that arrived was faaeal rosemary and remax rm303 which i dont really like. both sounded hollow and vocal is muffled. at the time i thought i had a fit issue and earbuds are just not for me and ill just stick to iems. i think that changes today as my vido arrives. i think these sounds really, REALLY good especially for the price, literally cheap as chips. thanks mr clieos for recommending these. i think its weird that my cheapest buds sounds the best. maybe its because i prefer the vido's signature but to my ears these sounds the most natural. both rosemary and rm303 dont sound natural to my ears.


----------



## assassin10000 (Apr 19, 2019)

JackFlash said:


> Could someone please provide the approximate relative size of several of the most commonly recommended earbuds? I know some use the same shell (e.g., MX500). I vaguely remember reading a similar size/fit discussion in this thread but cannot locate it now. Thank you!



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2588#post-14707170

16.1mm vs 16.8mm for PK shell vs. MX500. But the shape also makes a difference.


Some comparison pics are here and page before:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2426





audiohurric4ne said:


> so my vido arrived: i just started playing with earbuds few weeks ago. i ordered 4 buds on the same day, my first two buds that arrived was faaeal rosemary and remax rm303 which i dont really like. both sounded hollow and vocal is muffled. at the time i thought i had a fit issue and earbuds are just not for me and ill just stick to iems. i think that changes today as my vido arrives. i think these sounds really, REALLY good especially for the price, literally cheap as chips. thanks mr clieos for recommending these. i think its weird that my cheapest buds sounds the best. maybe its because i prefer the vido's signature but to my ears these sounds the most natural. both rosemary and rm303 dont sound natural to my ears.



What's the fourth? RY4S may be a more refined Vido. Unfortunately I gave my Vido away and am only going off unreliable memory.


----------



## audiohurric4ne

assassin10000 said:


> What's the fourth? RY4S may be a more refined Vido. Unfortunately I gave my Vido away and am only going off unreliable memory.



its the RY4S. ill love it then.


----------



## viatraco

Is Smabat ST-10 easy to wear cable down, not over the ear?


----------



## jogawag

viatraco said:


> Is Smabat ST-10 easy to wear cable down, not over the ear?



Replace the left and right housings and replace the cables with straight ones (copper).
I am using Smabat ST-10 this way.


----------



## activatorfly

jogawag said:


> Replace the left and right housings and replace the cables with straight ones (copper).
> I am using Smabat ST-10 this way.


...i.e. swap the R & L housings around - so that the connectors are pointing down?


----------



## waynes world

activatorfly said:


> ...i.e. swap the R & L housings around - so that the connectors are pointing down?



Yes. You will need a straight cable though.


----------



## activatorfly

waynes world said:


> Yes. You will need a straight cable though.


No worries - been preparing a great quality balanced cable to use.


----------



## Otto Motor

hongky said:


> Can anybody compare Smabat St-10 with Toneking TO600
> I really love TO600, is St-10 an upgrade to TO600
> 
> TIA


I don't know the Toneking but tested the Smabat: good depth but a metallic sound with horrendous sibilance and unnatural, metallic voices. I also don't know how the shells should keep in my ears: ergonomic horror. Since the left MMCX connector is loose, I'll return it at my own cost. Although it is a "free" review unit, sometimes even free is unaffordable..and mood killing.

In comparison, the much cheaper ISN Audio Rambo made me hang on to a relatively boring Chopin cello sonata because of its natural timbre...vs. the sterile sounding Smabat. 

And once I am done with the Rambo, I'll retire from earbuds as they are a general design flaw, considering the wrong angle between transducer and ear canal.


----------



## mbwilson111

Otto Motor said:


> I don't know the Toneking but tested the Smabat: good depth but a metallic sound with horrendous sibilance and unnatural, metallic voices. I also don't know how the shells should keep in my ears: ergonomic horror. Since the left MMCX connector is loose, I'll return it at my own cost. Although it is a "free" review unit, sometimes even free is unaffordable..and mood killing.
> 
> In comparison, the much cheaper ISN Audio Rambo made me hang on to a relatively boring Chopin cello sonata because of its natural timbre...vs. the sterile sounding Smabat.
> 
> And once I am done with the Rambo, I'll retire from earbuds as they are a general design flaw, considering the wrong angle between transducer and ear canal.



Wow,  I am shocked by this.  My ST-10 sounds great...not unnatural nor metallic.  Did you use foams?


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 19, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Wow,  I am shocked by this.  My ST-10 sounds great...not unnatural nor metallic.  Did you use foams?


Silicons...and I use donuts on the Rambos. As to metallic sound: did you try chamber music -- self amplified music? Details are in the end irrelevant as the left earpiece is faulty.

I have a similar poorly fitting Sennheiser design, the OMX-185.

If you want to get your money's worth at $100, in an iem that has been well thought out in terms of fit, comfort, cable, and sound...the Sennheiser ie40 Pro is the way to go.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have been enjoying the Sunrise SW Dragon II this evening


----------



## mbwilson111

Otto Motor said:


> Silicons...and I use donuts on the Rambos. As to metallic sound: did you try chamber music -- self amplified music? Details are in the end irrelevant as the left earpiece is faulty.



Actually, last night I was listening to the House of Cards soundtrack.  The day before some of my favorite singer-songwriters whose voices I know well because I have seen them perform in fairly small venues. 

I don't think I would like them with silicone covers...I never get the right sound with them.  Thick full foams have been recommended...possibly with donuts on top if your ear size requires it.  

They are 45 ohm so they like a bit of power.


----------



## ClieOS (Apr 19, 2019)

Otto Motor said:


> Silicons...and I use donuts on the Rambos. As to metallic sound: did you try chamber music -- self amplified music? Details are in the end irrelevant as the left earpiece is faulty.
> 
> I have a similar poorly fitting Sennheiser design, the OMX-185.
> 
> If you want to get your money's worth at $100, in an iem that has been well thought out in terms of fit, comfort, cable, and sound...the Sennheiser ie40 Pro is the way to go.



I suspect it is just a case of poor fitting. Contrary to common believe, proper fit (including the choice of foam / foamless) is just as crucial for earbuds as it is for IEM, if not more so... on the other hand, we are not here because we want a recommendation of IEM


----------



## Otto Motor

mbwilson111 said:


> Actually, last night I was listening to the House of Cards soundtrack.  The day before some of my favorite singer-songwriters whose voices I know well because I have seen them perform in fairly small venues.
> 
> I don't think I would like them with silicone covers...I never get the right sound with them.  Thick full foams have been recommended...possibly with donuts on top if your ear size requires it.
> 
> They are 45 ohm so they like a bit of power.





ClieOS said:


> I suspect it is just a case of poor fitting. Contrary to common believe, proper fit (including the choice of foam / foamless) is just as crucial for earbuds as it is for IEM, if not more so... on the other hand, we are not here because we want a recommendation of IEM



I did run them with the audioquest dragonfly black dac/amp connected to my iPhone SE. And no, I didn't try the foams as the left earpiece was striking. But I wiggled the earpieces to get an intermittent good seal. And I cannot ignore the sibilance. As to poor fit, sure it is the combination of my ears and the earpieces...I can change out the earbuds but not my ears. There is always a subjective element. Good for you when you think you got your money's worth.

At least, I cannot be accused of shilling a product .


----------



## Otto Motor

Here the perfect ears for buds...mine are more square .


----------



## ClieOS (Apr 19, 2019)

Just by the look of the PK style shell I'll say your ears might be on the smaller side.

...on a side note, I heard a smaller ST-10 is in development for those with smaller ears. Similar with how they have done with Svara-L and Svara-M.


----------



## chinmie

Otto Motor said:


> Here the perfect ears for buds...mine are more square .



is that your ear?


----------



## Lucas headphonebrz

Can anyone help me please ? I am searching for a earphone for a long time . Something to listen to female vocal , I prefer low bass and an outstanding voice clear . 
I spent 1000$ in one in ear but I still prefer my AirPod in terms of clearity and brighter voice .. can anyone help me with a suggestion? Someone tell me to try IM -02 , please I need help !


----------



## hongky

Otto Motor said:


> I don't know the Toneking but tested the Smabat: good depth but a metallic sound with horrendous sibilance and unnatural, metallic voices. I also don't know how the shells should keep in my ears: ergonomic horror. Since the left MMCX connector is loose, I'll return it at my own cost. Although it is a "free" review unit, sometimes even free is unaffordable..and mood killing.
> 
> In comparison, the much cheaper ISN Audio Rambo made me hang on to a relatively boring Chopin cello sonata because of its natural timbre...vs. the sterile sounding Smabat.
> 
> And once I am done with the Rambo, I'll retire from earbuds as they are a general design flaw, considering the wrong angle between transducer and ear canal.



Wow ...really ? Maybe earbud just not for you Otto
Anybody else can compare Smabat St-10 with Toneking TO600 ?

Thanks


----------



## assassin10000

Lucas headphonebrz said:


> Can anyone help me please ? I am searching for a earphone for a long time . Something to listen to female vocal , I prefer low bass and an outstanding voice clear .
> I spent 1000$ in one in ear but I still prefer my AirPod in terms of clearity and brighter voice .. can anyone help me with a suggestion? Someone tell me to try IM -02 , please I need help !



What do you mean by "low bass"? Low amount of bass (quantity of) or bass that is lower frequency (SUB-bass)?

This is an earbud thread, so if you are looking for isolation... this isn't the place.


----------



## theoutsider

chinmie said:


> yup, surprisingly it does hit around 7 to 8 hours of continuous playtime on bt 5.0 device, as i personally tested both of mine (i like it so much i bought two of them) with my note 8
> 
> unfortunately it cannot connect to two device simultaneously. for earbud like formfactor, i can only vouch for the X12pro, because i haven't tested other product. if iem form you're after, i recommend the QCY T1C very much


Battery life of 7-8 hours is quite unbelievable for a pair of tws, I used to have a pair of tws that can only hold 1 hour of charge.

I take it that you have the BT 5.0 version with USB-C charging case? I think the BT 5.0 version is powered by a Realtek (crab) BT chip, is the connectivity any stable? I have another pair of BT 5.0 headphones that pair nicely with my ipad and smartphone but not with my laptop, maybe it has something to do with my laptop and not the headphones.

I scoured the internet and apparently airpods, fake airpods, huawei freebuds 2 and sabbat x12pro are the only tws earbuds available now.


----------



## viatraco

Is DIY SR2 150ohm version significally better in overall SQ than 16 and 32ohm version ?


----------



## chinmie

theoutsider said:


> Battery life of 7-8 hours is quite unbelievable for a pair of tws, I used to have a pair of tws that can only hold 1 hour of charge.
> 
> I take it that you have the BT 5.0 version with USB-C charging case? I think the BT 5.0 version is powered by a Realtek (crab) BT chip, is the connectivity any stable? I have another pair of BT 5.0 headphones that pair nicely with my ipad and smartphone but not with my laptop, maybe it has something to do with my laptop and not the headphones.
> 
> I scoured the internet and apparently airpods, fake airpods, huawei freebuds 2 and sabbat x12pro are the only tws earbuds available now.



i have both the old micro usb version and the new usb c version. both can easily reach that 7 hours playtime and have a good and stable connection. that realtek chip that they are using (i have several true wireless iems that also have that realtek chip) have similarly good performance


----------



## Lucas headphonebrz

assassin10000 said:


> What do you mean by "low bass"? Low amount of bass (quantity of) or bass that is lower frequency (SUB-bass)?
> 
> This is an earbud thread, so if you are looking for isolation... this isn't the place.


Low quantity of bass . I was just wondering because I’m tired of spent money and I always prefer apples in ear in terms of clarity to vocals you know ? I don’t know if there is something Better so that’s why I’m searching yet , sorry if it’s the wrong area to ask it


----------



## groucho69

And once I am done with the Rambo, I'll retire from earbuds as they are a general design flaw, considering the wrong angle between transducer and ear canal.[/QUOTE]

Maybe this is why I find most buds work best for me worn sideways.


----------



## ValSilva

Lucas headphonebrz said:


> Low quantity of bass . I was just wondering because I’m tired of spent money and I always prefer apples in ear in terms of clarity to vocals you know ? I don’t know if there is something Better so that’s why I’m searching yet , sorry if it’s the wrong area to ask it



Hi Lucas, I like a lot of this iem list, if it was what you're looking for:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iem-score-list-last-update-01-04-2019.815852/

He posts his reviews in this site:

https://www.headfonia.com/author/berkhan/

Cheers.


----------



## jogawag

viatraco said:


> Is DIY SR2 150ohm version significally better in overall SQ than 16 and 32ohm version ?



The name of "SR2" is only for 16ohms, but I can understand what you want to say.
I don't have 150ohms(diy PK1) and 32ohms(diy PK2).
But seller said to me that "150ohms is for vocal, 32ohms has some bass, but not very much. If you like bass, you can use 150ohms red film pk1 driver, sound is very good."


----------



## mbwilson111

viatraco said:


> Is DIY SR2 150ohm version significally better in overall SQ than 16 and 32ohm version ?



Different drivers, different sound signatures.  Not necessarily better or worse sound quality.  It depends on your preference, your music, your sources.   This is why some of us enjoy trying different ones.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 20, 2019)

chinmie said:


> is that your ear?


That's the ear of a hungry panda bear after 1.5 pints.



groucho69 said:


> Maybe this is why I find most buds work best for me worn sideways.



Yes, sure, but that's not optimal either. And yes, earbuds are generally not for me. I like the Rambos, though, as they have forward mids and exquisite extended treble, and they are small. At $65 they would be my sweet spot. I would not go higher in an earbud.



hongky said:


> Wow ...really ? Maybe earbud just not for you Otto
> Anybody else can compare Smabat St-10 with Toneking TO600 ?
> 
> Thanks


You are probably right, although I had exclusively used Sennheiser earbuds for years [and I have a handful of HungryPanda DIY earbuds which I treasure]. I always look at the value (quality/price) and am rather a consumer advocate than somebody's marketing department. And I am a grumpy bastid. One can claim I did not give the Smabat enough consideration -- and they are possibly right -- but one earpiece not working properly, sibilance,  and a severe fit issue may turn one off initially. I'll have a second look at them with foams and report back.

As to consumer advocacy: my co-blogger and I reviewed the Brainwavz Koel: we thoroughly measured (on two rigs) and listened and meticulously recorded a severe channel imbalance in both review units and a distinct lack of bass below 200 Hz. I then found another blogger (a very qualified person who I know) who described them as a failure for their lack of low end. And that's exactly what it was -- they have a volume problem with their 3-D printing. I approached the company and had the units returned to them for their own analysis. Needless to say that we reviewers were not popular with them and we may never be invited to review something for them again.

Now look at all the favourable reviews of these earphones all over the net...not a single one backs their findings up with measurements -- and some of them are linked to from Brainwavz's own propaganda blog.  In summary, why should I recommend lemons and what good is my review if I did. As it stands, I would be poed if I had forked out $110 for the Smabats and $70 for the Koels.

I have approached the dealer and asked for his shipping address to return the Smabats at my own expense. At least he can claim his money back from the manufacturer for the faulty MMCX connector.

P.S. The Koel measurements are all accessible on my blog...to which I cannot link from inside a post I was told...I am not only unpopular with manufacturers after all. Just look at the signature...

PPS. That other blog in question is the truly excellent https://theheadphonecollector.blogspot.com


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Folks,

Hurry!!!!! Sabias, kubes and DUNUUUSSS are available at ebay!!!!!!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dunu-Earph...var=522244248350&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Earphone-E...var=522244219821&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dunu-Earph...var=522244248352&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Elibuds-Sa...var=522244243908&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Elibuds-Sa...var=522244243904&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Go fast, almost out of stock!


----------



## mbwilson111

Otto Motor said:


> That's the ear of a hungry panda bear after 1.5 pints.



OMG... it is!


----------



## Otto Motor

mbwilson111 said:


> OMG... it is!


Maybe he should come home more often .


----------



## jibberish

EBX finally showed up in my mailbox last night, and they're blowing my mind right out of the box.  Superb sound stage, great layering and separation of elements, and the best bass of any earbud I've heard so far -- that mid bass is powerful but accurate and controlled. And testing it against really complex/busy tracks it holds up perfectly, the stage doesn't close in, no harshness, and different elements of the mix are still distinctly layered and represented accurately. 

It's like I'm sitting in a room with a pair of excellent floor standing speakers. Good times.


----------



## mbwilson111

Otto Motor said:


> faulty MMCX connector



I personally have not done this but I know of people who have fixed the connector by fiddling with something inside.  ... ask Slater maybe.

as for sibilance with with the ST-10, absolutely none for me but I mentioned using thick full foams.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 20, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I personally have not done this but I know of people who have fixed the connector by fiddling with something inside.  ... ask Slater maybe.
> 
> as for sibilance with with the ST-10, absolutely none for me but I mentioned using thick full foams.


No sibilance? ssssthatssss weird! Will have to invessssstigate withssss foamszzzzzz.


----------



## mbwilson111

Otto Motor said:


> No sibilance? ssssthatssss weird! Will have to invessssstigate withssss foamszzzzzz.



try a donut on top of the full foam... forget the silicone things.  Also these deserve the best source you have.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 20, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> try a donut on top of the full foam... forget the silicone things.  Also these deserve the best source you have.


First, I really have zero talent pulling these things over and second do I use the audioquest dragonfly black dac/amp...that's the best I can offer. Third, I will have cosmetic surgery to get my ears pandarized.

These Senns also don't stay in my ears...and then there are the KEF M-200...true horror fit.



Spoiler: Senns that don't fit my ears


----------



## mbwilson111

Otto Motor said:


> First, I really have zero talent pulling these things over



Are you talking about getting the foams on?  Takes me around 20 minutes plus a few tears of frustration.  If my husband is home he can put them on in a couple of minutes.  Ask your wife to do it... maybe she has nimble fingers.


----------



## jibberish

Heh, yeah, I was really struggling getting the donuts on my EBX last night, but tbf I was at the brewery for a while prior to that.  I want to do the donut over full foams for them, just for cushioning/comfort reasons, I reaaaaaaaaaly struggle to get that done properly.


----------



## mbwilson111

Marcos Fontana said:


> Folks,
> 
> Hurry!!!!! Sabias, kubes and DUNUUUSSS are available at ebay!!!!!!
> 
> ...



Thanks for the heads-up!  I managed to snag a pink Kube this time.  I won't say what else... too much.  Like we needed more buds... lol.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

I got 3 Sabias (2 pearl and one mmcx), 2 dunu E10 and 1 5x150, 1 orange kube, I already have 2 black kubes. I'm missing my Sabia two much (was stolen)! I asked Jultoptau to sell other earbuds that are hard to get outside of Indonesia like:

Bejo V2
ABnormal Duotres 1.5
JVC (Japan Victor)
Loebuds 32ohms
Imperial Audio

Btw, pink is 2 times more expensive. It's rare, really rare.


----------



## rkw

Otto Motor said:


> No sibilance? ssssthatssss weird! Will have to invessssstigate withssss foamszzzzzz.


Your negative experience with the ST-10 is certainly very different from other reports. In this thread, the ST-10 has been receiving some of the most consistently positive reviews I've seen in recent memory.

That said, I've held off from getting an ST-10 because I decided to get off the hype train of new releases. I'm still interested based on the reviews, but I want to wait until I see how opinions hold up over the long term. The last hype train I got on was for the NiceHCK EB2. There was a lot of enthusiasm when it was released, but its performance didn't rise up to the level of hype and it's hardly mentioned any more.

As a point of reference, do you have earbuds that you like? You seem to prefer other types of earphones over earbuds.


----------



## mbwilson111

rkw said:


> The last hype train I got on was for the NiceHCK EB2. There was a lot of enthusiasm when it was released, but its performance didn't rise up to the level of hype and it's hardly mentioned any more.




That doesn't mean that I no longer love it!


----------



## subwoof3r

Otto Motor said:


> I don't know the Toneking but tested the Smabat: good depth but a metallic sound with horrendous sibilance and unnatural, metallic voices. I also don't know how the shells should keep in my ears: ergonomic horror. Since the left MMCX connector is loose, I'll return it at my own cost. Although it is a "free" review unit, sometimes even free is unaffordable..and mood killing.
> 
> In comparison, the much cheaper ISN Audio Rambo made me hang on to a relatively boring Chopin cello sonata because of its natural timbre...vs. the sterile sounding Smabat.
> 
> And once I am done with the Rambo, I'll retire from earbuds as they are a general design flaw, considering the wrong angle between transducer and ear canal.



As most people here recommends: ST-10 really needs to be used with thick (or mid-thick) full foams and nothing else.
I found best performances be achieved on the Smabat with thick full foams. This choice is extremely important. I experimented until now donut foams (not bad but still a bit brighty), the silicon rings included in the box (the worst, definitely not recommended), extreme-thin foams (way too bright althought fine details), and mid-thick foams (my best second choice).

There is a rumble in bass section on these earbuds that is rarely achieved (even in some of the best headphones). That small transmission line enclosure system clearly makes miracles


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 20, 2019)

rkw said:


> Your negative experience with the ST-10 is certainly very different from other reports. In this thread, the ST-10 has been receiving some of the most consistently positive reviews I've seen in recent memory.
> 
> That said, I've held off from getting an ST-10 because I decided to get off the hype train of new releases. I'm still interested based on the reviews, but I want to wait until I see how opinions hold up over the long term. The last hype train I got on was for the NiceHCK EB2. There was a lot of enthusiasm when it was released, but its performance didn't rise up to the level of hype and it's hardly mentioned any more.
> 
> As a point of reference, do you have earbuds that you like? You seem to prefer other types of earphones over earbuds.



All good points:

1. Always good to look at many opinions (and the reasonings behind them). For example, what was my issues -- are they valid? Would they apply to many others or was I just cantankerous and premature? I only used the silicon covers but not the thick foams...obviously, I will have to try the foams out.

2. Imho, earbuds have their niche justification but they are generally a flawed design in that the angles between the "loudspeaker" and the ear canal is unfavourable so that the sound is inefficiently transferred...which is very evident in the bass department. So, yes, I prefer earphones...and -- please hold your breath -- such with dynamic drivers...because of their natural timbre. And I don't care about packaging and bling bling.

3.The NiceHCK EB2 are decent earbuds at around $30 [I missed that hype train]. They beat my old Sennheiser MX-560. According to the Audiofool, they offer >90% of the much more expensive EBX flagship [he is another cantankerous guy and therefore trustworthy]. I like them for watching TV on my iPad or in situations where I am expecting a phone call.


Spoiler: Details



My EB2 review: https://www.audioreviews.org/nicehck-eb2-the-sennheiser-killer/

Comparisons between the NiceHCK EB2 and these:

*Sennheiser MX-560 (~$30, discontinued):* the EB2 are simply better sounding and more musical on all fronts to my big surprise. The Senns, my previous earbud reference, sound tinnier, are harder to driver and cannot compete in terms of richness of sound, resolution, details etc. Respect, NiceHCK.

*Headroom MS16 (~$10):* the MS16 were hyped a while ago on Audiobudget and are miles behind the Sennheiser MX-560, which are way behind the EB2. Nothing more than yet another good value for the drawer.

*Apple Earpods (~$30):* tinny sounding and highly inferior to the EB2 but they are great for phone calls and have stellar ergonomics. The EB2 lacks a microphone which would add essential earbud functionality.

*VE Monk Plus (~$5):* Sennheiser lookalike and good enough for listening to FM radio but no competitor to the EB2. I gave one of my two pairs to a friend who failed to find another friend to give it to…



4. As to hype trains: the Brainwavz Koel earphones have received excellent reviews -- imho they should not be on the market. Same with the Brainwavz B200 (both lack bass). Knowing the Koels it was evident how reviewers beat around the bush (which I found appalling)...for most there is a difference whether you receive something for free or pay good money for it. You always have to look how "experienced" the hype-train generators are. I have never read anything about the ST-10. And I would not be willing to pay $110 for them -- that's my personal subjective gut feeling. OK, I also received the ST-10 for free but I am not attached to any of these review items and give most of them away.

5. Many Head-Fiers listen to electronic music but not to a saxophone or an acoustic guitar. But only when listening to naturally amplified instruments with natural overtones one can assess the tonal accuracy ("timbre"). Music choices create huge differences in opinion. When testing the ST-10, I listened to Chopin cello sonatas and some jazz...that's where my attribute "metallic" came from. It certainly wasn't organic to _my_ ears [note: I generally don't like foams as they make the bass boomy -- I therefore used the silicon covers (and bare)...after discussion here, I will try the foams].

6. Simultaneously with the ST-10, I tried the $65 ISN Audio Rambo (with donuts)...a nondescript looking pair that will never generate a hype train because of its plain appearance. The Rambos are quite good, they have small earpieces that handle well, they have a warm, brightish sound, intimate mids and nicely extended treble. I am quite impressed by them. There is a review here on Head-Fi that is spot on imho. The cello in Chopin's sonata did sound like a cello.

7. A loose MMCX contact ootb is a turnoff considering how cumbersome it is return stuff to China. Such qc is not acceptable and certainly influences my buying decision. I returned a Fidue A65 earphone suffering from severe channel imbalance to China on 22 January at my expense...and received a replacement last week...which had an even more severe channel imbalance. That didn't make me any happier either.

In summary, I will give the ST-10 a second consideration with the thick foams but my first impression wasn't a good one.


----------



## Otto Motor

subwoof3r said:


> As most people here recommends: ST-10 really needs to be used with thick (or mid-thick) full foams and nothing else.
> I found best performances be achieved on the Smabat with thick full foams. This choice is extremely important. I experimented until now donut foams (not bad but still a bit brighty), the silicon rings included in the box (the worst, definitely not recommended), extreme-thin foams (way too bright althought fine details), and mid-thick foams (my best second choice).
> 
> There is a rumble in bass section on these earbuds that is rarely achieved (even in some of the best headphones). That small transmission line enclosure system clearly makes miracles


OK, I will try the thick foams.


----------



## waynes world

Otto Motor said:


> These Senns also don't stay in my ears...and then there are the KEF M-200...true horror fit.



The KEF M-200`s sound fantastic! Alas, for only the 10 minutes I have ever been able to get them to stay in my ears lol (meaning: I agree with you).



Marcos Fontana said:


> I got 3 Sabias (2 pearl and one mmcx), 2 dunu E10 and 1 5x150, 1 orange kube, I already have 2 black kubes. I'm missing my Sabia two much (was stolen)! I asked Jultoptau to sell other earbuds that are hard to get outside of Indonesia like:
> 
> Bejo V2
> ABnormal Duotres 1.5
> ...



Oh no lol!

I haven`t heard fo the Dunu E10`s. Wonder what they are like?



Otto Motor said:


> OK, I will try the thick foams.



Looking forward to your împressions (hopefully quite revised!).


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 20, 2019)

waynes world said:


> Looking forward to your împressions (hopefully quite revised!).




This begs the question why such silicone covers are included when they are no good...I thought they were a great idea. As to the KEFs, I blew one of the membranes with my ear -- and had to get a warranty replacement. This warranty replacement I cannot get to work at all anymore with my ears: no seal! Wonder whether the M200s re-shaped my ear canals .


----------



## mbwilson111

Otto Motor said:


> This begs the question why such silicone covers are included when they are no good



They might come in handy on another bud for someone.


----------



## mbwilson111

Marcos Fontana said:


> I got 3 Sabias (2 pearl and one mmcx), 2 dunu E10 and 1 5x150, 1 orange kube, I already have 2 black kubes. I'm missing my Sabia two much (was stolen)! I asked Jultoptau to sell other earbuds that are hard to get outside of Indonesia like:
> 
> Bejo V2
> ABnormal Duotres 1.5
> ...



Yes, I had been in contact with him trying to find other colors.  He had explained why  it would have to be more expensive than the other colors and I was willing to go for it.  It looks like a couple of others have also ordered the pink.

Besides the pink Kube1 for me , I also ordered a white one for my husband...he already has orange and blue.  I already have orange, purple, and white.   We might find some pretty cables one day to put on the white Kubes.     

I ordered the Sabia Rose for myself... love copper cables and this one is so pretty.  We both already have 
Sabia Pearls.

Plus there is another that I had talked about with the seller a while back.  We  decided to take a chance and got one for each of us.  We have seen photos and a few comments on EA.   AIDEX DX-SII-10001 (NW-Studio).

Now... tonight... back to the Smabat.


----------



## DBaldock9

mbwilson111 said:


> ...
> Now... tonight... back to the Smabat.



I'm currently watching Postmodern Jukebox playlists on YouTube, listening to my Smabat ST-10 (Donut Foam over Full Foam), driven by my iBasso PB2 (OPA1622 op-amps).


----------



## Otto Motor

OK, I attached the foams to the ST-10s...and it did add volume and temperature [bass extension is actually quite good], improved fit, and removed that metallic timbre...with the exception of the upper midrange which remains quite sharp. At least ithey don't sound bad anymore...it is too early to give more details. Sibilance is still there to some extent (upper midrange/lower treble peaks, I assume), and I am first and foremost fighting with that loose MMCX connector...that crackling and the dropouts in one earpiece are annoying. Nothing appears to help...


----------



## mbwilson111

Otto Motor said:


> OK, I attached the foams to the ST-10s...and it did add volume and temperature [bass extension is actually quite good], improved fit, and removed that metallic timbre...with the exception of the upper midrange which remains quite sharp. At least ithey don't sound bad anymore...it is too early to give more details. Sibilance is still there to some extent (upper midrange/lower treble peaks, I assume), and I am first and foremost fighting with that loose MMCX connector...that crackling and the dropouts in one earpiece are annoying. Nothing appears to help...



Do you have another cable you can use?  BTW..don't just pull on the connectors to remove it.  Wedge in your fingernail or something similar.

..and don't forget burn-in.


----------



## HungryPanda

Otto Motor said:


> OK, I attached the foams to the ST-10s...and it did add volume and temperature [bass extension is actually quite good], improved fit, and removed that metallic timbre...with the exception of the upper midrange which remains quite sharp. At least ithey don't sound bad anymore...it is too early to give more details. Sibilance is still there to some extent (upper midrange/lower treble peaks, I assume), and I am first and foremost fighting with that loose MMCX connector...that crackling and the dropouts in one earpiece are annoying. Nothing appears to help...


 if you have a fine nosed pair of pliers slightly tight the middle connector on you mmcx cable connector so it can grip better


----------



## nick n

Marcos Fontana said:


> I got 3 Sabias (2 pearl and one mmcx), 2 dunu E10 and 1 5x150, 1 orange kube, I already have 2 black kubes. I'm missing my Sabia two much (was stolen)! I asked Jultoptau to sell other earbuds that are hard to get outside of Indonesia like:


I never thought the orange would ever be so popular to be honest.
Very happy to see you have finally got a few replacements for your Sabia.



mbwilson111 said:


> Yes, I had been in contact with him trying to find other colors.  He had explained why  it would have to be more expensive than the other colors and I was willing to go for it.  It looks like a couple of others have also ordered the pink.
> 
> Besides the pink Kube1 for me , I also ordered a white one for my husband...he already has orange and blue.  I already have orange, purple, and white.   We might find some pretty cables one day to put on the white Kubes.
> 
> ...



Do you keep a running list of what you have? I found it's the only way. Even now I have to go back and see as I am trying to figure out what I need to give to  friends here.


----------



## mbwilson111

nick n said:


> Do you keep a running list of what you have? I found it's the only way. Even now I have to go back and see as I am trying to figure out what I need to give to friends here.



Of course...we both have full up to date lists in our profiles.  I just assumed everyone had looked at it


----------



## Marcos Fontana

mbwilson111 said:


> Yes, I had been in contact with him trying to find other colors.  He had explained why  it would have to be more expensive than the other colors and I was willing to go for it.  It looks like a couple of others have also ordered the pink.
> 
> Besides the pink Kube1 for me , I also ordered a white one for my husband...he already has orange and blue.  I already have orange, purple, and white.   We might find some pretty cables one day to put on the white Kubes.
> 
> ...


Wow!!! Amazing, I got the last AIDEX DX-SII-10001 too. Thank you! I got the Dunus 'cause I really like my dk-3001. I don't know how the Dunu earbuds sounds, but Dunu is a good brand.


----------



## ClieOS

Otto Motor said:


> OK, I attached the foams to the ST-10s...and it did add volume and temperature [bass extension is actually quite good], improved fit, and removed that metallic timbre...with the exception of the upper midrange which remains quite sharp. At least ithey don't sound bad anymore...it is too early to give more details. Sibilance is still there to some extent (upper midrange/lower treble peaks, I assume), and I am first and foremost fighting with that loose MMCX connector...that crackling and the dropouts in one earpiece are annoying. Nothing appears to help...



Lemon perhaps?

Did a quick measurement just now, here is how my ST-10 (w/ normal foam) FR curve looks like. Nothing in the normal 4kHz ~ 8kHz sibilant zone but a dip and the peak over 10kHz is too low to cause any issue.


----------



## mbwilson111

Marcos Fontana said:


> Wow!!! Amazing, I got the last AIDEX DX-SII-10001 too. Thank you! I got the Dunus 'cause I really like my dk-3001. I don't know how the Dunu earbuds sounds, but Dunu is a good brand.



He only put up three Aidex a few hours ago after I told him I would buy two... he had explained that the signature was not for everyone.  He possibly has more (just guessing) and wanted to wait and see what would happen with these.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

mbwilson111 said:


> He only put up three Aidex a few hours ago after I told him I would buy two... he had explained that the signature was not for everyone.  He possibly has more (just guessing) and wanted to wait and see what would happen with these.


Now, it's out of stock. One thing that caught my attention was that he said that Sabias will be no longer available. These will be the last:

*THIS IS THE LAST SABIA V6 STOCK WE HAVE SINCE IT WAS MEANT FOR WARRANTY STOCK. SO IT WILL NOT BE ON SALE ANYMORE WHEN IT IS SOLD OUT.*

After I read this, I got one more, now I have 2 pearl, 1 rose and 1 mmcx.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

DBaldock9 said:


> I'm currently watching Postmodern Jukebox playlists on YouTube, listening to my Smabat ST-10 (Donut Foam over Full Foam), driven by my iBasso PB2 (OPA1622 op-amps).


 Haley Reinhart and Morgan James work with PMJ are my favorite. Does good with female vocals?


----------



## ClieOS

mbwilson111 said:


> He only put up three Aidex a few hours ago after I told him I would buy two... he had explained that the signature was not for everyone.  He possibly has more (just guessing) and wanted to wait and see what would happen with these.



There are still plenty of Aidex over at Taobao if anyone wants one. They practically found a warehouse full of it a few years ago that never makes it to Japan when Aidex (the company) was sold.off


----------



## assassin10000 (Apr 20, 2019)

Otto Motor said:


> One can claim I did not give the Smabat enough consideration -- and they are possibly right -- but one earpiece not working properly, sibilance,  and a severe fit issue may turn one off initially. I'll have a second look at them with foams and report back...
> 
> In summary, why should I recommend lemons and what good is my review if I did. As it stands, I would be poed if I had forked out $110 for the Smabats and $70 for the Koels.
> 
> I have approached the dealer and asked for his shipping address to return the Smabats at my own expense. At least he can claim his money back from the manufacturer for the faulty MMCX connector.





mbwilson111 said:


> I personally have not done this but I know of people who have fixed the connector by fiddling with something inside.  ... ask Slater maybe.
> 
> as for sibilance with with the ST-10, absolutely none for me but I mentioned using thick full foams.





HungryPanda said:


> if you have a fine nosed pair of pliers slightly tight the middle connector on you mmcx cable connector so it can grip better



You can also use a pick or small eyeglass screwdriver. The center pin is hollow and split on the earbud side. Just press it inwards with light pressure.

Sometimes when inserting the cable, it's solid pin flexes the split and it makes poor contact after. I've had one so loose from the factory it made no contact after the 2nd time plugging it in, before I figured out what it was. Once tightened up one time, it's been absolutely fine since.




Also I may not be selling my EBX anymore. Solved my fit issues using a cable with an ear guide (non-memory wire). Kinda sucks as the cable that comes with the EBX seems nice.


----------



## doldoy

I need recommendation of low/mid-range budget earbud which is allrounder and easily driven (impedance not bigger than 64 ohm), anyone can recommend me one?


----------



## Marcos Fontana

doldoy said:


> I need recommendation of low/mid-range budget earbud which is allrounder and easily driven (impedance not bigger than 64 ohm), anyone can recommend me one?


What's your max budget?


----------



## doldoy (Apr 20, 2019)

Marcos Fontana said:


> What's your max budget?


around $20 but prefer to spend around $15 and less if possible.


----------



## TheoS53

doldoy said:


> around $20 but prefer to spend around $15 and less if possible.


 So far I'm really enjoying the RY4S (UE cable). https://bit.ly/2PkCg9c


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 21, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> Lemon perhaps?
> 
> Did a quick measurement just now, here is how my ST-10 (w/ normal foam) FR curve looks like. Nothing in the normal 4kHz ~ 8kHz sibilant zone but a dip and the peak over 10kHz is too low to cause any issue.


Thanks. Great graph -- very useful -- and indeed nothing suspicious in there. I noticed the early treble rolloff (that starts in the upper midrange) and also the good bass extension. What coupler do you use? Did you measure with the foams?

I don't think it is a lemon as both sides sound the same. Take Queen's "Bohemian Rhapsody", Live Aid version (from the "Bohemian Rhapsody" soundtrack). It starts with the crowd cheering and high piano notes before Freddie Mercury sings. Both crowd and piano sound piercing to me...could well be a fit issue...or I need to add a donut onto the foam as suggested by @mbwilson111.



assassin10000 said:


> You can also use a pick or small eyeglass screwdriver. The center pin is hollow and split on the earbud side. Just press it inwards with light pressure.




Another good advice, thanks. I tried it with some fine pliers but realize that I have a fantastic Hama micro screwdriver set...what is odd is that there is nothing useful on MMCX connector repair on the internet. I actually tried what you suggested but have the impression is it more of a vertical issue...when I pull it out a bit, it works better...will address it again tomorrow.




HungryPanda said:


> if you have a fine nosed pair of pliers slightly tight the middle connector on you mmcx cable connector so it can grip better


On the earpiece you mean? I tried this inside the earpiece...with visible success but it did not improve the functionality. Tried this last year with the Tinaudio T2:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...-reference-list.805930/page-599#post-14159643



mbwilson111 said:


> Do you have another cable you can use?  BTW..don't just pull on the connectors to remove it.  Wedge in your fingernail or something similar.
> 
> ..and don't forget burn-in.



Burnt in overnight. And yes, I tried the cable that came with the NiceHCK M6...and it didn't work at all: no sound. But first, I just reversed right and left on the original cable and the result was the same. This indicated the flaw lied in the earpiece's female connector.

I also tried some special contact lube that came with the UE900s. What could work as a conductive paste that establishes the contact between the male cable end and the female earpiece [spark plug paste]?

Picture of the T2...couldn't fix it completely in the end last year.


----------



## DBaldock9

BadReligionPunk said:


> Haley Reinhart and Morgan James work with PMJ are my favorite. Does good with female vocals?



I've been enjoying the wide range of (mostly female) PMJ vocalists today - so far listening to (most, or all of) the tracks sung by: Sara Niemietz, Haley Reinhart, Morgan James, Ariana Savalas, Robyn Adele Anderson, Cristina Gatti, Ashley Stroud, Shoshana Bean, Puddles Pity Party, Casey Abrams, etc.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

TheoS53 said:


> So far I'm really enjoying the RY4S (UE cable). https://bit.ly/2PkCg9c


Rw-9 is a good one and you can get it for $17~19 from AliExpress. It's a slight better than RY4S imho. Qian69 is awesome too.


----------



## ClieOS

Otto Motor said:


> Thanks. Great graph -- very useful -- and indeed nothing suspicious in there. I noticed the early treble rolloff (that starts in the upper midrange) and also the good bass extension. What coupler do you use? Did you measure with the foams?



IEC711 equivalent. It is sort of a Taobao DIY coupler but calibrated with a real B&K artificial ear system to ensure decent accuracy. I measured with normal foam.


----------



## assassin10000

j4100 said:


> Qian 39 = 16.3mm
> Qian 69 = 16.8mm
> Seahf AWK-F150C = 16.8mm
> **** PT15 = 16.35mm
> ...





j4100 said:


> The Heavenly Sounds Genesis and King Interlude, both Willsound Mk1 and 2, ABnormal Duotres, ELi Vajiac, and Earbud Thailand Black Lion are all MX500 shells and measured 16.9mm, though the Lion was 16.8mm. Shell batch size probably varies slightly. I think all of the others I have are probably MX500 shells as well.





assassin10000 said:


> PT25: 16.0mm x 17.0mm (at widest angle, directly across opening is 16.7mm, approx. 15mm wide/thick).
> 
> ACG (& Ti7): 15.75mm (5.35mm rim width, overall 15.45mm wide/thick).
> 
> Old Sony EDR-M828: 17.05mm x 18.00mm (not pictured)



A couple more measurements and a shape comparison.

15.9mm EBX (17.70mm wide/thick)
16.8mm Smabat ST-10 (16.60mm wide/thick)






Top: 16.8mm ST-10, 15.9mm EBX & 15.75mm ACG
Bottom: 16.8mm MX500 & 16.1mm PK shell


----------



## TheoS53

Marcos Fontana said:


> Rw-9 is a good one and you can get it for $17~19 from AliExpress. It's a slight better than RY4S imho. Qian69 is awesome too.



Yeah i was supposed to have both of those by now already, but thanks to my little AE incident I'm gonna have to wait for my refunds to be processed and then I'll place an order (including those buds) from a different seller(s). But I'm glad to hear that the RW-9 is at least somewhat considered as a bit of an upgrade over the RY4S


----------



## fairx (Apr 21, 2019)

TheoS53 said:


> Yeah i was supposed to have both of those by now already, but thanks to my little AE incident I'm gonna have to wait for my refunds to be processed and then I'll place an order (including those buds) from a different seller(s). But I'm glad to hear that the RW-9 is at least somewhat considered as a bit of an upgrade over the RY4S


My rw-9 order also have few hiccups here using local online store that source to China seller. Seems my choice of color not in stock and didn't realize they send me message to change color. But then red back in store and all good. Maybe delay 2-3 days. I should enjoy listening to rw-9 right now if not for the stock problem. Local online store usually ship faster than AE because they have their own warehouse in China.

Just now someone ask me in PM about old topic of all rounder earbud. Although I don't have many earbud as others here I'd like to mention that nowadays I've been using Docomo (long stem) as my daily earbud wether watching Anime / movies or listening to music. In some way it's even more balance than anything else I own, sibilance free except when it's in the song and most important, doesn't sound thin at all even without foam. They sound just right. Can stand higher volume, very open sounding and holographic vocal with many good recordings. They also excel in Japanese recordings  the only weakness is early roll in bass starting around 100hz. But whatever it can reproduce it will reproduce brilliantly.

Edit. Its quite detailed but not micro detail level. 

Very hard to get if you're outside South East Asia I believe

Cheers


----------



## doldoy

TheoS53 said:


> So far I'm really enjoying the RY4S (UE cable). https://bit.ly/2PkCg9c


Thanks!



Marcos Fontana said:


> Rw-9 is a good one and you can get it for $17~19 from AliExpress. It's a slight better than RY4S imho. Qian69 is awesome too.


Can Qian69 be considered allrounder ? I heard some people said it's strong in vocal (mid?) side.


----------



## alias71

Otto Motor said:


> I don't know the Toneking but tested the Smabat: good depth but a metallic sound with horrendous sibilance and unnatural, metallic voices. I also don't know how the shells should keep in my ears: ergonomic horror. Since the left MMCX connector is loose, I'll return it at my own cost. Although it is a "free" review unit, sometimes even free is unaffordable..and mood killing.
> 
> In comparison, the much cheaper ISN Audio Rambo made me hang on to a relatively boring Chopin cello sonata because of its natural timbre...vs. the sterile sounding Smabat.
> 
> And once I am done with the Rambo, I'll retire from earbuds as they are a general design flaw, considering the wrong angle between transducer and ear canal.



Interesting... Also the Smabat ST-10 I received 3 days ago has a loose MMCX connector on the right earbud with sound that cuts off at any movement of the cable. 
Sound is OK though. Patricia Barber (my favorite female Jazz singer) has a nice and natural voice.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

doldoy said:


> Thanks!
> 
> 
> Can Qian69 be considered allrounder ? I heard some people said it's strong in vocal (mid?) side.


For me it's really well balanced. I forgot to mention that you can get the Sabia too. But you need to hurry up. It's the last batch. I strongly recommend the Sabia:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Elibuds-Sa...m=223489018685&_trksid=p2054502.c100227.m3827

You can't go wrong with it.


----------



## LetheFB

Hi mates

I have pulled the triger and bought a smabat st-10. I am impressed from the first listen, but when i have changed the stock cable(actually, whenever i change the cable) sound dissappears for a short time when i handle the earphone to sit it better to my ears. I think that the connector is loose on both sides. Do you have such an experience like me?


----------



## alias71

LetheFB said:


> Hi mates
> 
> I have pulled the triger and bought a smabat st-10. I am impressed from the first listen, but when i have changed the stock cable(actually, whenever i change the cable) sound dissappears for a short time when i handle the earphone to sit it better to my ears. I think that the connector is loose on both sides. Do you have such an experience like me?



Just two posts above yours!


----------



## sareer007

Can anyone compare sabia with diy sr2 ?


----------



## ClieOS

LetheFB said:


> Hi mates
> 
> I have pulled the triger and bought a smabat st-10. I am impressed from the first listen, but when i have changed the stock cable(actually, whenever i change the cable) sound dissappears for a short time when i handle the earphone to sit it better to my ears. I think that the connector is loose on both sides. Do you have such an experience like me?



Does it happens to both stock and aftemarket cable or just the aftermarket cable? If it is the later then it is not a loose socket but more likely an incompatibility between the cable's mmcx plug and the socket, i.e. difference in tolerance.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

sareer007 said:


> Can anyone compare sabia with diy sr2 ?


My Sabia was stolen with my ES100 and some other stuff like my notebook. From memory, it had more mid bass (the amount that I really appreciate) and sounds more natural than sr2 (parhaps I need to burn in it more) for me. It was one of my favorite earbuds. The sound signature is really fun and addictive.


----------



## mbwilson111

Marcos Fontana said:


> sounds more natural than sr2 (parhaps I need to burn in it more)



I think it was recommended we burn the SR2 in for 100 - 200 hours.  I think I did.


----------



## darmanastartes

doldoy said:


> Thanks!
> 
> 
> Can Qian69 be considered allrounder ? I heard some people said it's strong in vocal (mid?) side.


Qian69 are my favorite of the three earbuds I have (Qian69, Monk Espresso, Nicehck EB2), but I wouldn't call them vocal-focused, they sound very V-shaped to me.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

mbwilson111 said:


> I think it was recommended we burn the SR2 in for 100 - 200 hours.  I think I did.


@mbwilson111 Do you enjoy SR2 more than the Sabia? I really need to burn the SR2(I lost the control of my todo list). I'm thinking in buying that amplifier with multiple ports so I can burn in multiple earbuds.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

darmanastartes said:


> Qian69 are my favorite of the three earbuds I have (Qian69, Monk Espresso, Nicehck EB2), but I wouldn't call them vocal-focused, they sound very V-shaped to me.


I agree with you. For me, balanced earbuds needs to have a good amount of bass but not too much (vido is awesome, but for short period of time or some genres with less bass). The earbuds for me need to sound like headphones and Qian69 do it a quite well for it price.


----------



## LetheFB

Both of them. There was no problem before i have changed the cable. By the way, I have changed it kindly


----------



## alias71

ClieOS said:


> Does it happens to both stock and aftemarket cable or just the aftermarket cable? If it is the later then it is not a loose socket but more likely an incompatibility between the cable's mmcx plug and the socket, i.e. difference in tolerance.



In my case it happens with the stock cable and other cables To verify if it was a problem with the stock cable or the earbud, I switched the earbuds: right earbud on the left connector and left earbud on the right connector and found the same problem with right earbud.
Then I tried the Svara L stock cable: with it no sound at all on the ST-10 right earbud.


----------



## doldoy

Marcos Fontana said:


> For me it's really well balanced. I forgot to mention that you can get the Sabia too. But you need to hurry up. It's the last batch. I strongly recommend the Sabia:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Elibuds-Sabia-Earphone-Earbud/223489018685?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908103841&meid=68aed48d998347139e181ef9d7483d5c&pid=100227&rk=1&rkt=7&sd=223489018685&itm=223489018685&_trksid=p2054502.c100227.m3827
> 
> You can't go wrong with it.


Thanks. How sabia (pearl version, since I don't like mic) is compared to qian69 and yincrow RW-9 ?


----------



## jogawag

Marcos Fontana said:


> @mbwilson111 Do you enjoy SR2 more than the Sabia? I really need to burn the SR2(I lost the control of my todo list). I'm thinking in buying that amplifier with multiple ports so I can burn in multiple earbuds.



You do not have to purchase Amp for multiple Burn-ins. You can search for "multi splitter" and find a tool like the one below.


----------



## nickv (Apr 21, 2019)

I just grabbed a Sabia Pearl. I don't think the stock will last the day.


----------



## Marcos Fontana (Apr 21, 2019)

doldoy said:


> Thanks. How sabia (pearl version, since I don't like mic) is compared to qian69 and yincrow RW-9 ?



For me, Sabia is an upgrade in SQ in almost every aspect. It was my daily earbud. I only took it off to listen to my ZoomFred. But, it's a personal opinion.



jogawag said:


> You do not have to purchase Amp for multiple Burn-ins. You can search for "multi splitter" and find a tool like the one below.


Wow, that's nice. But what it does with the Amp? Is there any risk?


----------



## DBaldock9

Marcos Fontana said:


> ...
> 
> Wow, that's nice. But what it does with the Amp? Is there any risk?



There's always a risk to amplifiers which don't have automatic protection circuits, when you put multiple loads in parallel.

For less than $20, connecting one of these simple 4-Channel Headphone Amps to the output of your source, would protect the amp in your source -
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HA400-Ultr...ne-Stereo-Amp-Microamp-Amplifier/233175424870


----------



## ClieOS

alias71 said:


> In my case it happens with the stock cable and other cables To verify if it was a problem with the stock cable or the earbud, I switched the earbuds: right earbud on the left connector and left earbud on the right connector and found the same problem with right earbud.
> Then I tried the Svara L stock cable: with it no sound at all on the ST-10 right earbud.



Just to cover all the bases - do make sure you have pushed the mmcx plug all the way it and hear the 'snapping' sound.


----------



## jogawag (Apr 21, 2019)

Marcos Fontana said:


> ...
> Wow, that's nice. But what it does with the Amp? Is there any risk?



You can connect the "Multi splitter" to Amp's 3.5mm earphone jack and connect the remaining 5 jacks to sound the earphones.
I do not know in detail, but I think that there is no risk within the common sense volume range.  And I usually use this to listen to music while connecting with the other 4 earbuds. However, until now I never broke my amp(Onkyo DP-X1).


----------



## Marcos Fontana

DBaldock9 said:


> There's always a risk to amplifiers which don't have automatic protection circuits, when you put multiple loads in parallel.
> 
> For less than $20, connecting one of these simple 4-Channel Headphone Amps to the output of your source, would protect the amp in your source -
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/HA400-Ultr...ne-Stereo-Amp-Microamp-Amplifier/233175424870


I was considering this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...lgo_pvid=29bcca01-dc2a-4c0c-89f0-cfd951d2cbea

The real problem with the splitter is that I have multiple impedance and with this kind of amplifier, you can control each one to not stress to much anything. But the amplifier that you mentioned is 1/4 of the price


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 21, 2019)

alias71 said:


> Interesting... Also the Smabat ST-10 I received 3 days ago has a loose MMCX connector on the right earbud with sound that cuts off at any movement of the cable.
> Sound is OK though. Patricia Barber (my favorite female Jazz singer) has a nice and natural voice.


I wonder what size of needle nose pliers would be the right one? I am obviously not an expert in pliers...and it it difficult to size them from online images. In the meantime, I can probably work with this to fix the contact:
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B000NRU88E/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

And in order to chill down last night, I used the HungryPanda EMX v1 earbuds (a prototype not available in stores) that sports a Fengru LK1308 15.4 mm driver at 32 ohm. And I really enjoyed them. 10 out of 10 for the listening experience: Schubert/Impromptus, Chopin/Cello sonatas, and the Bevis Frond (a London guitar rock band)...sounded simply good.

Here a list of my orphaned commercial earbuds. Maybe some of you earbud experts could point me to the odd interesting model within my inventory.



Spoiler: Earbud Inventory



Earbud inventory
Joyroom JR-EL117 1200 mm Driver

JOYROOM JR-EL123

Langsdom F9

NiceHCK EB2

Sennheiser OMX-185

Sennheiser MX-560

Headroom MS16

VE Monk Plus

FAAEL 32 ohm earbud



Thanks.


----------



## Otto Motor

LetheFB said:


> Hi mates
> 
> I have pulled the triger and bought a smabat st-10. I am impressed from the first listen, but when i have changed the stock cable(actually, whenever i change the cable) sound dissappears for a short time when i handle the earphone to sit it better to my ears. I think that the connector is loose on both sides. Do you have such an experience like me?


Seems to be a production problem. There certainly was one with the early Tinaudio T2s. My contact was loose without ever having removed the cable.


----------



## raghav20

Marcos Fontana said:


> Folks,
> 
> Hurry!!!!! Sabias, kubes and DUNUUUSSS are available at ebay!!!!!!
> 
> ...



Hi, i have been listening to IEMs for some time and have never tried earbuds. I ordered RY4SUE on @HungryPanda 's advise and waiting for delivery. I just want to know which of these is the best because i don't want to miss out on some amazing sounding earbuds as stock of these are limited


----------



## waynes world

raghav20 said:


> Hi, i have been listening to IEMs for some time and have never tried earbuds. I ordered RY4SUE on @HungryPanda 's advise and waiting for delivery. I just want to know which of these is the best because i don't want to miss out on some amazing sounding earbuds as stock of these are limited



Oh boy, do I feel sorry for your wallet!

One side of me wants to suggest that you take your time. Get your RY4SUE`s and enjoy and appreciate them for a while, and continue on your quest after that (the Sabia`s etc will most likely come up for sale again down the road).

The other side of me wants to scream BUY BUY BUY at the top of my lungs because they will be gone soon - do not delay!!!!! 

I`ll flip a coin and let you know which way I decide


----------



## raghav20 (Apr 21, 2019)

waynes world said:


> Oh boy, do I feel sorry for your wallet!
> 
> One side of me wants to suggest that you take your time. Get your RY4SUE`s and enjoy and appreciate them for a while, and continue on your quest after that (the Sabia`s etc will most likely come up for sale again down the road).
> 
> ...


I have no idea whether earbuds would suit me or not so right now i don't want to invest much but more i read this thread more intrigued i get about earbuds. I just don't want to miss out if i get to like the earbuds after trying so was looking for a suggestion which most of the people have heard and liked


----------



## assassin10000 (Apr 21, 2019)

So I got the Smabat ST-10's in last week and have them burned in (jlab file). I did not detect any major changes to the initial ootb sound.

Initial impressions really good mids & highs and great bass. To me it's an L shaped signature, not recessed and a bit forward. Even with the bass emphasis they are not warm sounding as it is fairly well controlled and emphasized in the bass region without bleeding into the upper/mid bass and lower mids.

Without foams they sound unnatural and vaguely metallic. I did not try the included silicone covers at all.

The tuned port really works and the emphasis is not visible in the FR graphs (thanks to @cqtek and @ClieOS for posting them). As others have said, if you cover the opening the bass pretty much disappears. This bass emphasis seems to be around 60ish hz, it is not sub-bass (40hz and below imo). Playing with EQ (31, 62 & 125 hz) if I remove a few db at 62hz it removes the extra emphasis in the bass region.




Note: I consider myself a beginner/neophyte to describing sound, so take what I say with a healthy grain of salt.


----------



## alias71 (Apr 21, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> Just to cover all the bases - do make sure you have pushed the mmcx plug all the way it and hear the 'snapping' sound.



Thanks for the help!
I hear a satisfying "click" when I push the cable connector and, from outside, it does not look loose at all when I move the cable connector left and right. Does it mean it is a problem with the center contact in the earbud mmcx female socket? 
To "fix" the problem I move the cable connector left or right, at a certain point the sound comes back again.


----------



## rahmish

Just ordered Sabia normal version, can't stand a hype, I have Sabia V4 pro which are very good, so really looking forward to receive these!


----------



## waynes world

raghav20 said:


> I have no idea whether earbuds would suit me or not so right now i don't want to invest much but more i read this thread more intrigued i get about earbuds. I just don't want to miss out if i get to like the earbuds after trying so was looking for a suggestion which most of the people have heard and liked



It would be good to make sure that buds work for you. They probably will though. If you do break down and get some more, the good news is that most of the ones recommended around here are very good.

You don`t want me recommending buds to you though - the list will be too long lol


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> One side of me wants to suggest that you take your time. Get your RY4SUE`s and enjoy and appreciate them for a while, and continue on your quest after that (the Sabia`s etc will most likely come up for sale again down the road).



I would not count on the Sabias coming up for sale again after this batch.   The listing specifically says that this is the last batch that they have.  

I love my Sabia Pearl and I am excited to get the Sabia Rose ... it is so pretty I just had to order it even though I usually avoid cables with mics.  I do use mics for one thing though if the cable has one.... easier to tell right from left


----------



## ValSilva

Oh man, this hype is a species of disease that spreads through the air. By the way, I got the last Sabia Pearl


----------



## Marcos Fontana

mbwilson111 said:


> I would not count on the Sabias coming up for sale again after this batch.   The listing specifically says that this is the last batch that they have.
> 
> I love my Sabia Pearl and I am excited to get the Sabia Rose ... it is so pretty I just had to order it even though I usually avoid cables with mics.  I do use mics for one thing though if the cable has one.... easier to tell right from left


Me too . I never got one cable with the mic in the left. I only bought the Rose because of the copper cable. I don't think that Sabia will be available again...


----------



## mbwilson111

Otto Motor said:


> And in order to chill down last night, I used the HungryPanda EMX v1 earbuds (a prototype not available in stores) that sports a Fengru LK1308 15.4 mm driver at 32 ohm. And I really enjoyed them. 10 out of 10 for the listening experience: Schubert/Impromptus, Chopin/Cello sonatas, and the Bevis Frond (a London guitar rock band)...sounded simply good.



Giving away trade secrets I see  I should add that Otto had to fly all the way from Canada to the UK to receive these.  He and Panda met up in London a few weeks ago.  I have the v1 and the v2 here at home  All of the Panda buds sound great.

...and yet I bought the Smabat... no regrets.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

waynes world said:


> Oh boy, do I feel sorry for your wallet!
> 
> One side of me wants to suggest that you take your time. Get your RY4SUE`s and enjoy and appreciate them for a while, and continue on your quest after that (the Sabia`s etc will most likely come up for sale again down the road).
> 
> ...



I took a decision to wait and don't buy the smabat yet. I think it was a wise decision. But I will not survive without a Sabia in my gear box. I will wait the smabat to mature a bit more...


----------



## DBaldock9

Marcos Fontana said:


> I was considering this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...lgo_pvid=29bcca01-dc2a-4c0c-89f0-cfd951d2cbea
> 
> The real problem with the splitter is that I have multiple impedance and with this kind of amplifier, you can control each one to not stress to much anything. But the amplifier that you mentioned is 1/4 of the price



The Samson might be better, if you're using it to listen to your headphones - but the cheap one will work just fine for doing burn-in.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 21, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> Without foams they sound unnatural and vaguely metallic.



Yep, that's what I said, too. Useful discussion!
Let me summarize:

1. The Smabat has no quirks in its frequency response and should sound smooth.
2. It needs foam covers, without they don't sound full.
3. With foam covers, I am positively surprised how full and 3D they sound and how well extended the bass is. Quite amazing for an earbud.
4. The bass is actually quite good for me as is.
5. The included silicon covers do not yield the desired sound and should not be included.
6. My problems with screaming/aggressive upper mids (high voices; cheering crowds) appears to be an individual fit issue, which leads to the amplification of the 2-4 kHz range inside my ears.
7. Grumpiness has influenced my initial judgement as one of the MMCX connectors is loose.
8. Several loose MMCX connectors have been reported here, it appears to be a production issue similar to the early Tinaudio T2.

What I learnt from you earbud afficionados is that foams can make a huge difference and that earbuds can actually have a nice volume.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Folks,

Normally I see a lot of interesting things from Philippines and Indonesia. They have nice online s


DBaldock9 said:


> The Samson might be better, if you're using it to listen to your headphones - but the cheap one will work just fine for doing burn-in.


You are right. I didn't bought the Samson yet because I believe that I will not preserve the same quality of my sources and can't push everything that I have here. To say the truth, I have other problems/challenges that are almost impossible to solve:
1 - A change a lot my earbuds/headphoes and I'm concerned of doing it while playing the music. I already saw things breaking down while doing this...
2 - I need one amp with many outputs that is not too expensive, that will not change the sound of my sources and could drive almost everything that I have (> 600ohms, planars, etc)

That amp that you mentioned works wonderfully for burn in purposes.


----------



## assassin10000 (Apr 21, 2019)

Otto Motor said:


> 2. It needs foam covers, without they don't sound full.
> 3. With foam covers, I am positively surprised how full and 3D they sound and how well extended the bass is. Quite amazing for an earbud.
> 
> What I learnt from you earbud afficionados is that foams can make a huge difference and that earbuds can actually have a nice volume.



Yep.

Varying thickness of foams and donut style will also make a difference. Lets you easily alter the sound to your preference. Just like tip rolling an IEM.

I typically prefer medium or thicker foams that seal for good bass, in a donut style as it does not affect the mids/highs.


----------



## groucho69

Otto Motor said:


> Yep, that's what I said, too. Useful discussion!
> Let me summarize:
> 
> 1. The Smabat has no quirks in its frequency response and should sound smooth.
> ...



Otto. Grumpy? Nah, can't be. I find you engaging and forthright.


----------



## chinmie

Otto Motor said:


> It needs foam covers, without they don't sound full.



most earbuds are more sensitive to foam types and thickness, even more so than iems do to tips changes, so it's nice to have a collection of several different types and thickness of foams around, or even if you're more adventurous, experiment with scissors/hole punchers. 

i got into habit of always trying new earbuds without foams first, then assess if i need full foams or donuts (based on the mids), and also if i need thick or thin foams (depends on the bass and treble). fun thing to know, even if two different batch/brand foams feels having similar thickness, if you shine a light through it, you might find them having different fiber density.


----------



## ClieOS

alias71 said:


> Thanks for the help!
> I hear a satisfying "click" when I push the cable connector and, from outside, it does not look loose at all when I move the cable connector left and right. Does it mean it is a problem with the center contact in the earbud mmcx female socket?
> To "fix" the problem I move the cable connector left or right, at a certain point the sound comes back again.




Most likely a misalignment of the center pin / socket. There is a way to somewhat fix it (using a small forceps to slowly clamp down the center socket, which I have done on Shure SE215 a few years back) though I really won't recommend doing it yourself since you are covered by warranty.


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> most earbuds are more sensitive to foam types and thickness, even more so than iems do to tips changes, so it's nice to have a collection of several different types and thickness of foams around, or even if you're more adventurous, experiment with scissors/hole punchers.
> 
> i got into habit of always trying new earbuds without foams first, then assess if i need full foams or donuts (based on the mids), and also if i need thick or thin foams (depends on the bass and treble). fun thing to know, even if two different batch/brand foams feels having similar thickness, if you shine a light through it, you might find them having different fiber density.



...and a selection of colors is nice too   Most of these arrived last week.... didn't realize the multipack was 200 foams   I like the quality of these Trig Rain foams.  We have more foams than these of course... all the ones that came with various buds plus some big bags of black ones.

The colors don't sound different but there might be a psychological effect


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> ...and a selection of colors is nice too   Most of these arrived last week.... didn't realize the multipack was 200 foams   I like the quality of these Trig Rain foams.  We have more foams than these of course... all the ones that came with various buds plus some big bags of black ones.
> 
> The colors don't sound different but there might be a psychological effect



now i want multiple colors too! 
may i have the link too?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 21, 2019)

chinmie said:


> now i want multiple colors too!
> may i have the link too?



Trig Rain store on Aliexpress.  I will try to find it and edit with the link.

Packs of 20 foams in individual colors  We had ordered a few colors a while back.. that is why we have more of some than others in that box.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/20p...phone-Earpads-Covers-MP3-MP4/32671911259.html

The big multipack... we did not specify specific colors and what actually arrived were twelve of the 20 packs... one of each color. Not sure if that is how it always works.... we were surprised.

Actually maybe @HungryPanda remembers ... I see there is a place to choose mix color

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/200...placement-Sponge-Covers-Tips/32696147273.htmlhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/20p...phone-Earpads-Covers-MP3-MP4/32671911259.html


----------



## HungryPanda (Apr 21, 2019)

.


----------



## ClieOS

mbwilson111 said:


> ...and a selection of colors is nice too



Just a cautionary tale - I have color foam in the past that leaks color at time. You want to take one of two of them and wash them with a tiny bit of detergent just to make sure no color leak.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 21, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> Just a cautionary tale - I have color foam in the past that leaks color at time. You want to take one of two of them and wash them with a tiny bit of detergent just to make sure no color leak.



I have been using these for awhile and have had no problem.  They seem to be good quality.

Maybe I should add that I don't sweat when I am wearing buds... I don't run or work out with them.

Here is one of my HungryPanda buds with the colored foams.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 21, 2019)

chinmie said:


> most earbuds are more sensitive to foam types and thickness, even more so than iems do to tips changes, so it's nice to have a collection of several different types and thickness of foams around, or even if you're more adventurous, experiment with scissors/hole punchers.
> 
> i got into habit of always trying new earbuds without foams first, then assess if i need full foams or donuts (based on the mids), and also if i need thick or thin foams (depends on the bass and treble). fun thing to know, even if two different batch/brand foams feels having similar thickness, if you shine a light through it, you might find them having different fiber density.


Great suggestion! Can you recommend certain types on aliexpress?



mbwilson111 said:


> ...and a selection of colors is nice too   Most of these arrived last week.... didn't realize the multipack was 200 foams   I like the quality of these Trig Rain foams.  We have more foams than these of course... all the ones that came with various buds plus some big bags of black ones.
> 
> The colors don't sound different but there might be a psychological effect



Holy virgin...can you please pm me the purchase links of your favourite foams?


----------



## assassin10000 (Apr 21, 2019)

Otto Motor said:


> Great suggestion! Can you recommend certain types on aliexpress?
> 
> Holy virgin...can you please pm me the purchase links of your favourite foams?



Here you go:

Store link:
https://trigrain518946.aliexpress.com/store/group/Foam-ear-pads/518946_509998943.html



I've stopped using the thinner foams. The thicker foams are a slightly more dense, softer feeling foam vs the thinner more porous (and somewhat itchy) foams.


These are the thinner ones.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/30P...acement-For-Earphone-MP3-MP4/32909795959.html


These are the thicker ones (identical density/foam, bottom link is just a lot more of them for a good price):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/20p...phone-Earpads-Covers-MP3-MP4/32671911259.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/50-...ns-bud-Headphone-Covers-Tips/32607003829.html


There is also the VE "ex pack" for earbuds. Select the last 'color' option for it. I've not ordered it (yet), but it has a selection. I'm not sure how their 'thick' foams compare to the above links.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Venture-Electronic-VE-MONK-earbud-earphone/32417311324.html


Here's closeup pics of the two.

'thicker'





'thinner'








If you want to go almost no foam, there are these as well. I've never tried them as they look super itchy:
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ers-Tips-For-Earphone/518946_32881765999.html


----------



## chinmie

Otto Motor said:


> Great suggestion! Can you recommend certain types on aliexpress?
> 
> 
> 
> Holy virgin...can you please pm me the purchase links of your favourite foams?



this is where i got my thin foams:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32790...&terminal_id=632895548e474e0d84b9968f6a449637

other thin foams that you can check out is the VE monk foams, if you buy the VE expansion pack you would also get a good thick foams too. 

my go to for thick foams is the Hiegi. also if you have that Miniso shop near you, they sell really thick foams {thicker than Hiegi's)


----------



## Otto Motor

chinmie said:


> this is where i got my thin foams:
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32790...&terminal_id=632895548e474e0d84b9968f6a449637
> 
> other thin foams that you can check out is the VE monk foams, if you buy the VE expansion pack you would also get a good thick foams too.
> ...


I found a whole bunch of foams in my drawer, including a VE Monk expansion pack.


----------



## assassin10000 (Apr 21, 2019)

chinmie said:


> this is where i got my thin foams:
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32790...&terminal_id=632895548e474e0d84b9968f6a449637
> 
> other thin foams that you can check out is the VE monk foams, if you buy the VE expansion pack you would also get a good thick foams too.
> ...



Not sure what browser or app you are using on your device but you have some weird redirect link going on.

```
https://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_155590293736626&key=1e99669452acedd7650a94861c9354cb&libId=jursacy60101zlp1000DAbygdosyp&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.head-fi.org%2Fthreads%2Fearbuds-round-up.441400%2Fpage-2776%23post-14912006&v=1&opt=true&out=https%3A%2F%2Fm.aliexpress.com%2Fitem%2F32790634729.html%3Ftrace%3Dwwwdetail2mobilesitedetail%26productId%3D32790634729%26productSubject%3D32790634729%26tt%3DCopy%2Bto%2Bclipboard%26aff_platform%3Ddefault%26cpt%3D1555902320891%26sk%3DblmxxLvO%26aff_trace_key%3Dc4ba7733e5b64033b196193570f7eb7b-1555902320891-06166-blmxxLvO%26terminal_id%3D632895548e474e0d84b9968f6a449637&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.head-fi.org%2Fforums%2F&title=Earbuds%20Round-Up%20%7C%20Page%202776%20%7C%20Headphone%20Reviews%20and%20Discussion%20-%20Head-Fi.org&txt=https%3A%2F%2Fm.aliexpress.com%2Fitem%2F32790...%26amp%3Bterminal_id%3D632895548e474e0d84b9968f6a449637
```


Here's a safe link to your item:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...p-Ear-Pads-Cover-Replacement/32790634729.html





Otto Motor said:


> I found a whole bunch of foams in my drawer, including a VE Monk expansion pack.



Well there you go then.


----------



## ClieOS (Apr 21, 2019)

alias71 said:


> Thanks for the help!
> I hear a satisfying "click" when I push the cable connector and, from outside, it does not look loose at all when I move the cable connector left and right. Does it mean it is a problem with the center contact in the earbud mmcx female socket?
> To "fix" the problem I move the cable connector left or right, at a certain point the sound comes back again.



BTW, any of you needs warranty claim / contacts customer service can reach out to Smabat directly. Email is lh@smabat.com. It will probably be faster than going through Aliexpress reseller.


----------



## assassin10000

ClieOS said:


> Just by the look of the PK style shell I'll say your ears might be on the smaller side.
> 
> ...on a side note, I heard a smaller ST-10 is in development for those with smaller ears. Similar with how they have done with Svara-L and Svara-M.




Hmmm. I do have smaller ears and the fit on the ST-10 isn't as good as my smaller buds (PK, ACG & EBX). 




Lucas headphonebrz said:


> Low quantity of bass . I was just wondering because I’m tired of spent money and I always prefer apples in ear in terms of clarity to vocals you know ? I don’t know if there is something Better so that’s why I’m searching yet , sorry if it’s the wrong area to ask it



If you don't care about the quantity of bass, it's hard to go wrong with the Ourart ACG which is Mid/Treble/sound stage focused. The Ourart Ti7 is also supposed to have great mids but not as much Treble or sound stage. 

Otherwise I'd suggest something like a 32ohm PK shell. Here's a few I have bookmarked:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY...ne-hole-shell-without-R-L-on/32922747759.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...Y-Earphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds/32811888693.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/diy...ohms-32ohms-150ohms-TPE-wire/32801646835.html (Select 32 ohm from the color options)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DQS...lugs-Earbud-Earphone-Headset/32907407670.html


----------



## Otto Motor

Thanks everybody for the foams advise: I ordered several buckets full!


----------



## chinmie

assassin10000 said:


> Not sure what browser or app you are using on your device but you have some weird redirect link going on.
> 
> ```
> https://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_155590293736626&key=1e99669452acedd7650a94861c9354cb&libId=jursacy60101zlp1000DAbygdosyp&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.head-fi.org%2Fthreads%2Fearbuds-round-up.441400%2Fpage-2776%23post-14912006&v=1&opt=true&out=https%3A%2F%2Fm.aliexpress.com%2Fitem%2F32790634729.html%3Ftrace%3Dwwwdetail2mobilesitedetail%26productId%3D32790634729%26productSubject%3D32790634729%26tt%3DCopy%2Bto%2Bclipboard%26aff_platform%3Ddefault%26cpt%3D1555902320891%26sk%3DblmxxLvO%26aff_trace_key%3Dc4ba7733e5b64033b196193570f7eb7b-1555902320891-06166-blmxxLvO%26terminal_id%3D632895548e474e0d84b9968f6a449637&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.head-fi.org%2Fforums%2F&title=Earbuds%20Round-Up%20%7C%20Page%202776%20%7C%20Headphone%20Reviews%20and%20Discussion%20-%20Head-Fi.org&txt=https%3A%2F%2Fm.aliexpress.com%2Fitem%2F32790...%26amp%3Bterminal_id%3D632895548e474e0d84b9968f6a449637
> ...



i opened it on the app, copied the link to chrome on android after deleting the text before the "https", and then copied the opened webpage's link to here. that's the only way i know right now, please do teach me the better way to do it


----------



## assassin10000 (Apr 22, 2019)

chinmie said:


> i opened it on the app, copied the link to chrome on android after deleting the text before the "https", and then copied the opened webpage's link to here. that's the only way i know right now, please do teach me the better way to do it



Ah. I don't use the app at all for links.

Open Aliexpress in chrome on Android.
Search or find the item you are looking for.
Long press and 'open in new tab' the item.
Copy address and paste into head-fi.
Delete the part after ".html"


```
Make this:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32881765999.html?pid=000_0000_0000&spm=a2g0n.search-amp.list.000000&aff_trace_key=&aff_platform=msite&m_page_id=000000000

Look like this:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32881765999.html
```


----------



## rkw (Apr 22, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> Not sure what browser or app you are using on your device but you have some weird redirect link going on.
> 
> ```
> https://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_155590293736626&key=1e99669452acedd7650a94861c9354cb&libId=jursacy60101zlp1000DAbygdosyp&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.head-fi.org%2Fthreads%2Fearbuds-round-up.441400%2Fpage-2776%23post-14912006&v=1&opt=true&out=https%3A%2F%2Fm.aliexpress.com%2Fitem%2F32790634729.html%3Ftrace%3Dwwwdetail2mobilesitedetail%26productId%3D32790634729%26productSubject%3D32790634729%26tt%3DCopy%2Bto%2Bclipboard%26aff_platform%3Ddefault%26cpt%3D1555902320891%26sk%3DblmxxLvO%26aff_trace_key%3Dc4ba7733e5b64033b196193570f7eb7b-1555902320891-06166-blmxxLvO%26terminal_id%3D632895548e474e0d84b9968f6a449637&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.head-fi.org%2Fforums%2F&title=Earbuds%20Round-Up%20%7C%20Page%202776%20%7C%20Headphone%20Reviews%20and%20Discussion%20-%20Head-Fi.org&txt=https%3A%2F%2Fm.aliexpress.com%2Fitem%2F32790...%26amp%3Bterminal_id%3D632895548e474e0d84b9968f6a449637
> ```


The redirect is caused by the awful viglink adware/spyware in the head-fi forum software. When someone clicks on a link in a post, it is first intercepted and redirected to the viglink website that tracks your movements and collects information to sell to advertisers. All of this is supposed to happen transparently for users, but it is buggy and often breaks the link.

I am immune to it because I use a Chrome extension that disables viglink. You can opt-out of viglink: https://www.viglink.com/opt-out/ but I think redirects still happen although it won't collect your data.


----------



## LetheFB

Thanks for your help 




Otto Motor said:


> Seems to be a production problem. There certainly was one with the early Tinaudio T2s. My contact was loose without ever having removed the cable.





ClieOS said:


> BTW, any of you needs warranty claim / contacts customer service can reach out to Smabat directly. Email is lh@smabat.com. It will probably be faster than going through Aliexpress reseller.


----------



## raghav20

Finally gave in and ordered one Kube and one Sabia


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 22, 2019)

raghav20 said:


> Finally gave in and ordered one Kube and one Sabia



Good.  I think you will be happy with them.  The seller ships quickly.  After that, it depends on the mail system.

What color Kube did you get?  I see that now only black or white are remaining.


----------



## ClieOS

Look at what the cat dragged in.


----------



## mbwilson111

ClieOS said:


> Look at what the cat dragged in.



Let us see what is inside!


----------



## TheoS53

So, I finally got my refund from the previous screw up on AE and decided to go ahead and order a couple of the buds form this store. So now the countdown begins for me to receive the Qian models, K's 32 and 64, Vido, and RW-9. 




ClieOS said:


> Look at what the cat dragged in.



Hmm, I didn't see the RW-100 on AE, Im guessing they must be a new release


----------



## BabyLamb89

TheoS53 said:


> So, I finally got my refund from the previous screw up on AE and decided to go ahead and order a couple of the buds form this store. So now the countdown begins for me to receive the Qian models, K's 32 and 64, Vido, and RW-9.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I got a few buds from that store: yincrow rw-9, k's LLB in black and Headroom MS16. Great service and no complaints.

I want to see those new yincrows though!


----------



## raghav20 (Apr 22, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Good.  I think you will be happy with them.  The seller ships quickly.  After that, it depends on the mail system.
> 
> What color Kube did you get?  I see that now only black or white are remaining.


I have only read positively about them here, so i definitely hope they would be good

I ordered blue one


----------



## mbwilson111

After all of the talk about different types of foams, I just wanted to mention that sometimes a bud can work well with no foams.  I know people say that the Zen must be worn without foams.

This is a long way away from a Zen pricewise but  the re-cabled Sony HPM-64s are best for me with no foams.  The shells are tiny and the rubber ring that holds the shell together works to keep it from slipping.  I have several of these now in various colors with various cables.  All bought for prices ranging from £2 to £5.   At some point I want to take a photo of them all together.  This is the newest one... just re-cabled last week..on the day it arrived.  The orange Sony HPM-64 with a nice copper cable. Very nice all rounder type bud.


----------



## groucho69 (Apr 22, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> Look at what the cat dragged in.



Now that's a great cat.


----------



## TheoS53

BabyLamb89 said:


> I got a few buds from that store: yincrow rw-9, k's LLB in black and Headroom MS16. Great service and no complaints.
> 
> I want to see those new yincrows though!



Out of interest, how long did it take that store to ship your order?


----------



## BabyLamb89

TheoS53 said:


> Out of interest, how long did it take that store to ship your order?



Ordered 25th of February, shipped the 28th, received on the 12th March. This was all via Aliexpress standard shipping.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 22, 2019)

TheoS53 said:


> Out of interest, how long did it take that store to ship your order?



I have used both of those stores and have never found any difference... some things come quickly and others don't.  It is a matter of supply and during these huge sales the sellers cannot always get it all in time... and they have so many orders to fill and it is hard to keep up.  People always say that when we order during the big sales to expect long delays.  Feel lucky when some do arrive quickly.  I think if you  had just left your original order alone it would have come just as quickly as this new order... in fact it already had a head start.


----------



## TheoS53

BabyLamb89 said:


> Ordered 25th of February, shipped the 28th, received on the 12th March. This was all via Aliexpress standard shipping.



Ah ok, thanks for the info. That does sound reasonable.



mbwilson111 said:


> I have used both of those stores and have never found any difference... some things come quickly and others done.  It is a matter of supply and during these huge sales the sellers cannot always get it all in time... and they have so many orders to fill and it is hard to keep up.  People always say that when we order during the big sales to expect long delays.  Feel lucky when some do arrive quickly.  I think if you  had just left your original order alone it would have come just as quickly as this new order... in fact it already had a head start.



Maybe you're right, the whole vibe of that other store just put me off completely. The fact that the person wouldn't contact me and tell me that something might be out of stock (hence a delay), or telling me that they've shipped it and then don't provide any proof of it (AE has no record of the items being sent either). So whatever, hopefully it's all smooth sailing from here on.


----------



## mbwilson111

TheoS53 said:


> So whatever, hopefully it's all smooth sailing from here on.



I sure hope so.  It is so weird what happened to you.  We have only had good experiences with that store... and the one you are using now... and NiceHCK... and a few others...

You do have to be willing to wait for weeks if necessary though.  I have had things arrive within a week to 10 days but of course that is only if everything is in stock.  You have not said what country you are in.  Some places take longer than others.  China to the UK seems to be pretty good... at the moment.


----------



## BabyLamb89

TheoS53 said:


> Ah ok, thanks for the info. That does sound reasonable.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you're right, the whole vibe of that other store just put me off completely. The fact that the person wouldn't contact me and tell me that something might be out of stock (hence a delay), or telling me that they've shipped it and then don't provide any proof of it (AE has no record of the items being sent either). So whatever, hopefully it's all smooth sailing from here on.



Yes, if you have had a bad experience after contacting the seller, or trying to, then cancelling the order is probably not a bad idea. But things with AE can take time. My "lego" dinosaurs I've bought for my son shipped by Air (according to tracking) on the 19th of March and after a month are finally in Sweden. I want to know what plane is that slow?!

On topic, what is a worthy upgrade to Yincrow rw-9? I've considered Yuin pk2's but not wholly convinced yet.


----------



## mbwilson111

BabyLamb89 said:


> On topic, what is a worthy upgrade to Yincrow rw-9? I've considered Yuin pk2's but not wholly convinced yet.



Well, earlier it seems that @ClieOS was trying to tease us with that photo of a box... apparently containing a new model of Yincrow.  I bet it will be expensive though.  I wonder when he will stop torturing us and give us more info.


----------



## DBaldock9

BabyLamb89 said:


> Yes, if you have had a bad experience after contacting the seller, or trying to, then cancelling the order is probably not a bad idea. But things with AE can take time. My "lego" dinosaurs I've bought for my son shipped by Air (according to tracking) on the 19th of March and after a month are finally in Sweden. I want to know what plane is that slow?!
> 
> On topic, what is a worthy upgrade to Yincrow rw-9? I've considered Yuin pk2's but not wholly convinced yet.



This one would probably be fairly slow...  
.






The NiceHCK DIY PK2 sound good, but don't have a lot of Bass.
I've never heard the Yincrow RW-9 - so I can't give a comparison.


----------



## BabyLamb89

DBaldock9 said:


> This one would probably be fairly slow...
> .
> *pic*
> 
> ...



I had actually completely given up on them arriving (still haven't yet but I've paid customs and they've moved on from there, so perhaps tomorrow or Wednesday) but that was standard China Post instead of Aliexpress Shipping.

Are the NiceHCK the Panda Pk2s these ones or are there others? I can't see any at moment.


----------



## theoutsider

ClieOS said:


> Look at what the cat dragged in.





Spoiler:  Yincrow RW-100



Yincrow RW-100










... Jon Snow will not survive


----------



## DBaldock9

BabyLamb89 said:


> I had actually completely given up on them arriving (still haven't yet but I've paid customs and they've moved on from there, so perhaps tomorrow or Wednesday) but that was standard China Post instead of Aliexpress Shipping.
> 
> Are the NiceHCK the Panda Pk2s these ones or are there others? I can't see any at moment.



The set of NiceHCK branded PK2s I bought look like this photo, but I suspect the driver is probably the same as in the Pandas.
.


----------



## BabyLamb89 (Apr 22, 2019)

DBaldock9 said:


> The set of NiceHCK branded PK2s I bought look like this photo, but I suspect the driver is probably the same as in the Pandas.



In that case, I can add them to my wishlist and wait to see how much those new Yincrows cost  (I have to bulk up my orders to save on customs - in Sweden it's 75SEK/$8 plus VAT, regardless how big the order is, so all those awesomely cheap earbuds that cost $5 end up costing more than double...)

Edit: here's the Taobao link for those new Yincrows. Look to be about $30 ish. Exciting.


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> Well, earlier it seems that @ClieOS was trying to tease us with that photo of a box... apparently containing a new model of Yincrow.  I bet it will be expensive though.  I wonder when he will stop torturing us and give us more info.



@ClieOS lives to torture us. Well, me anyway


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> @ClieOS lives to torture us. Well, me anyway



someone posted a spoiler picture... seems to be a pod form factor.


----------



## ClieOS

mbwilson111 said:


> Well, earlier it seems that @ClieOS was trying to tease us with that photo of a box... apparently containing a new model of Yincrow.  I bet it will be expensive though.  I wonder when he will stop torturing us and give us more info.



Its MSRP in China is actually only around US$10.


----------



## Otto Motor

ClieOS said:


> Most likely a misalignment of the center pin / socket. There is a way to somewhat fix it (using a small forceps to slowly clamp down the center socket, which I have done on Shure SE215 a few years back) though I really won't recommend doing it yourself since you are covered by warranty.


Here are two photos and a video of the Smabat including repair gone wrong.


Spoiler: Smart MMCX disaster



Youtube Video for Samabat's engineering department:





 






The I tightened the MMCX connector in the earpiece with a small screwdriver and very carefully. I made zero difference, although it was visibly tighter. I then did it less cautiously and it broke off (2nd photo): now it is completley dead. In the end it did not make any difference: a $110 earbud that does not work is no good...says the reviewer.

That will be an interesting review of a dead earbud ...that's what I told Smabat.


----------



## doldoy

TheoS53 said:


> So, I finally got my refund from the previous screw up on AE and decided to go ahead and order a couple of the buds form this store. So now the countdown begins for me to receive the Qian models, K's 32 and 64, Vido, and RW-9.


Please let me know the sound impression of k's 32 and 64 when you got them.


----------



## ClieOS

ZEVA SuperFire
ZEVA Snow 2.0
Yincrow RW-100


----------



## ClieOS

Otto Motor said:


> That will be an interesting review of a dead earbud ...that's what I told Smabat.



Hence why I don't recommend a DIY repair. From what I know, Smabat already changed the MMCX socket on the new batch of ST-10 as there are reports of socket's tolerance issue and are offering exchange.


----------



## Otto Motor

ClieOS said:


> Hence why I don't recommend a DIY repair. From what I know, Smabat already changed the MMCX socket on the new batch of ST-10 as there are reports of socket's tolerance issue and are offering exchange.


Thanks for the info.


----------



## jogawag (Apr 25, 2019)

BabyLamb89 said:


> In that case, I can add them to my wishlist and wait to see how much those new Yincrows cost  (I have to bulk up my orders to save on customs - in Sweden it's 75SEK/$8 plus VAT, regardless how big the order is, so all those awesomely cheap earbuds that cost $5 end up costing more than double...)
> 
> Edit: here's the Taobao link for those new Yincrows. Look to be about $30 ish. Exciting.



The URL of "NiceHCK DIY PK2" first recommended by @DBaldock9 is "https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801437048.html" and it is no longer sold as you can see.
Since the Docomo Driver was used in this version 1 and 2, the sound quality seemed to be good and the reputation  was great.

It is "Shozy Cygnus" that Docomo Driver is used in Earbuds sold now, and it has the feature that the sparkling treble is wonderful and the bass is reinforced enough with the glued donut pads . The URL is "https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/shozy-cygnus.html", which is somewhat expensive Earbuds.
I recommend this Earbuds.


----------



## ClieOS

DBaldock9 said:


> The set of NiceHCK branded PK2s I bought look like this photo, but I suspect the driver is probably the same as in the Pandas.
> .



It is kinda confusing as Z&W Panda was sold in China as Z&W PK2s, but it is a different earbud from NiceHCK DIY PK2. Panda is 32ohm and DIY PK2 is about 16ohm, so electronically they are already two different driver.


----------



## BabyLamb89

jogawag said:


> The URL of "NiceHCK DIY PK2" first recommended by @DBaldock9 is "https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32801437048.html" and it is no longer sold as you can see.
> Since the Docomo Driver was used in this version 1 and 2, the sound quality seemed to be good and the reputation  was great.
> 
> It is "Shozy Cygnus" that Docomo Driver is used in Earbuds sold now, and it has the feature that the sparkling treble is wonderful and the bass is reinforced enough with the glued donut pads . The URL is "https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/shozy-cygnus.html", which is somewhat expensive Earpads.
> I recommend this Earpads.





ClieOS said:


> It is kinda confusing as Z&W Panda was sold in China as Z&W PK2s, but it is a different earbud from NiceHCK DIY PK2. Panda is 32ohm and DIY PK2 is about 16ohm, so electronically they are already two different driver.



Perhaps I should just get something with a PK shell and be happy instead. I won't be opening them up in a hurry, that's for sure.


----------



## mbwilson111

BabyLamb89 said:


> Perhaps I should just get something with a PK shell and be happy instead. I won't be opening them up in a hurry, that's for sure.



This is the one I remember people praising at the time.  I think that is the one @HungryPanda has.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...t-Head-Plug-Earplugs-Headset/32831045644.html


----------



## BabyLamb89

mbwilson111 said:


> This is the one I remember people praising at the time.  I think that is the one @HungryPanda has.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...t-Head-Plug-Earplugs-Headset/32831045644.html



Wishlisted. Thanks!


----------



## HungryPanda

waynes world said:


> @ClieOS lives to torture us. Well, me anyway


Isn't every earbud lover sent to haunt you my friend


----------



## HungryPanda

Like this


----------



## assassin10000

Those of you with the ST-10 and a better amp/source, does the ST-10 benefit from it?

I do like the sound but I only use my phone for a source. Surprisingly even with it being rated 45Ω (115db sensitivity), it's louder than my ACG rated at 32Ω (122db sensitivity).


----------



## mbwilson111

assassin10000 said:


> Those of you with the ST-10 and a better amp/source, does the ST-10 benefit from it?
> 
> I do like the sound but I only use my phone for a source. Surprisingly even with it being rated 45Ω (115db sensitivity), it's louder than my ACG rated at 32Ω (122db sensitivity).



With my sources (my desktop dac/amp and a couple of daps with good power output)   the ST-10 sounds like full sized headphones to me.  I am using the stock cable and full foams.  Loudness is not the only consideration.  Something can be loud enough and yet not driven to its potential.

Have not tried it with a phone because I choose not to own a smartphone.  Don't need one.


----------



## assassin10000

mbwilson111 said:


> With my sources (my desktop dac/amp and a couple of daps with good power output)   the ST-10 sounds like full sized headphones to me.  I am using the stock cable and full foams.  Loudness is not the only consideration.  Something can be loud enough and yet not driven to its potential.
> 
> Have not tried it with a phone because I choose not to own a smartphone.  Don't need one.



That's what I'm trying to get at. Trying to figure out if the detail, transparancy, separation, etc. benefit from a better source/amping.


... and I just remembered the word I was looking for, does it 'scale'?


----------



## mbwilson111

assassin10000 said:


> That's what I'm trying to get at. Trying to figure out if the detail, transparancy, separation, etc. benefit from a better source/amping.
> 
> 
> ... and I just remembered the word I was looking for, does it 'scale'?



have you considered getting a small portable amp to use with your phone?


----------



## seanc6441

@Otto Motor

By the logic of the angle being wrong then all speakers, and most headphones in the world are flawed. As the shoot sound at you from the front, and sides.

IEM's are usually the only gear that directly fires sound into your eardrum.

So not sure if this actually improved sound quality other than changing the perceived frequency response as less of your ear system is doing the listening.

As long as earbuds are tuned correctly to negate the effects of the position/angle of the driver it shouldn't have much determental effect. Maybe some resonance? But is human skin really that resonating to cause a problem? Someone more sciency might know


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 22, 2019)

Marcos Fontana said:


> I agree with you. For me, balanced earbuds needs to have a good amount of bass but not too much (vido is awesome, but for short period of time or some genres with less bass). The earbuds for me need to sound like headphones and Qian69 do it a quite well for it price.


My issue with many earbuds is the earbuds with the right amount of mid bass usually lack sub bass depth. Those with very boosted mid bass have adequate sub bass...

And I'm someone who enjoys punchy mid bass to begin with. I really cannot stand earbud with recessed mid bass and low mids. Sounds really lacking to me if the earbud doesn't portray a full tone.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

seanc6441 said:


> My issue with many earbuds is the earbuds with the right amount of mid bass usually lack sub bass depth. Those with very boosted mid bass have adequate sub bass...
> 
> And I'm someone who enjoys punchy mid bass to begin with. I really cannot stand earbud with recessed mid bass and low mids. Sounds really lacking to me if the earbud doesn't portray a full tone.


You should try to listen to ZoomFred. I believe that is exactly what you are looking for. It's my best and ones that do it better than anything.


----------



## ClieOS (Apr 22, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> That's what I'm trying to get at. Trying to figure out if the detail, transparancy, separation, etc. benefit from a better source/amping.
> 
> 
> ... and I just remembered the word I was looking for, does it 'scale'?



Most smartphones have either too high an output impedance, too low an output power (especially on the current side), too worst a channel separation and sometime some combination of them (if not all). Most entry level DAP from well known Chinese brand these days can easily compete with them, not to mention mid- to high-end DAP. If you don't want to use a separated DAP, I'll suggest a half decent amp/DAC at least. If your smartphone supports LDAC or aptX, then a good quality Bluetooth adapter like FiiO BTR3 or EarStudio ES100 can be very an excellent addition as well.


----------



## Otto Motor

ClieOS said:


> Hence why I don't recommend a DIY repair. From what I know, Smabat already changed the MMCX socket on the new batch of ST-10 as there are reports of socket's tolerance issue and are offering exchange.


Message from Smabat on the MMCX connector issue: 
_"...I saw it, I am very sorry to have encountered this situation.
Our engineering analysis is that our headphone cable has caused this problem.
Contact us at AliExpress Customer Service to arrange a new headset and cable for you.
We are already solving this interface problem and it will be better later.
In this case, you can use small pliers.
As shown below..."
_
By the way: I did exactly as shown with the results exactly as shown...this didn't change anything.


----------



## Otto Motor

assassin10000 said:


> Those of you with the ST-10 and a better amp/source, does the ST-10 benefit from it?



I use the audioquest dragonfly black on the iphone SE and the ST-10 sounds much better with it: fuller, more volume.


----------



## MelodyMood

Any comparison between Remax RM-303 Vs FiiO EM3S? Especially how they stand against TP16 or Monk+?


----------



## alias71

Otto Motor said:


> Message from Smabat on the MMCX connector issue:
> _"...I saw it, I am very sorry to have encountered this situation.
> Our engineering analysis is that our headphone cable has caused this problem.
> Contact us at AliExpress Customer Service to arrange a new headset and cable for you.
> ...



Bingo! I compared with a magnifying glass the distance between the two center contact's halves in the defective and the good earphone MMCX connectors and, in fact, the two halves in the defective one are noticeably more distant than in the good one.
On the positive side I got a message from Jim at NiceHCK that will send me a new ST-10 pair and pay for the expenses to send the defective earphones back. Great customer support!


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 23, 2019)

My wife went through her old tech garbage today to give to recycling...and came across an old Apple earbud: the second generation Apple earbud from 2006 (which is essentially the first generation Apple earbud with a chin slider) -- very rare.

I had one of these, which had come with the 2nd generation ipod shuffle (that one that looked like a pack of Wrigley's spearmint gum), and absolutely loved it...after losing it on the bus, I replaced it with the [imo inferior] Sennheiser MX560. The later Apple earbuds were inferior to this one, too -- and were eventually replaced by the EarPods.

Boy was I happy: these old Apple earbuds rock..when comparing them to a pair of current $65 buds, these didn't quite have the treble and bass extension, but they had a similar tonal quality. Now I am more confused than ever about the correlation of price and quality...also known as value.

Anyway, great to have these back 11 years later...my wife gave them to me.


----------



## Otto Motor

alias71 said:


> Bingo! I compared with a magnifying glass the distance between the two center contact's halves in the defective and the good earphone MMCX connectors and, in fact, the two halves in the defective one are noticeably more distant than in the good one.
> On the positive side I got a message from Jim at NiceHCK that will send me a new ST-10 pair and pay for the expenses to send the defective earphones back. Great customer support!


Smabat told me not to return mine at all.


----------



## MelodyMood

Otto Motor said:


> My wife went through her old tech garbage today to give to recycling...and came across an old Apple earbud: the second generation Apple earbud from 2006 (which is essentially the first generation Apple earbud with a chin slider) -- very rare.
> 
> I had one of these, which had come with the 2nd generation ipod shuffle (that one that looked like a pack of Wrigley's spearmint gum), and absolutely loved it...after losing it on the bus, I replaced it with the [imo inferior] Sennheiser MX560. The later Apple earbuds were inferior to this one, too -- and were eventually replaced by the EarPods.
> 
> ...


They are nice. I also have them. From 1st Gen iPod. Very nice sound. Much better than the available earbuds now a days. Not sure why Apple stopped them and went for very uncomfortable Earpods. I wish I can get new pairs of these 1st or 2nd Gen ones with Mic


----------



## assassin10000

mbwilson111 said:


> have you considered getting a small portable amp to use with your phone?



I did briefly but I carry enough as is and don't want to add more to keep track of.



ClieOS said:


> Most smartphones have either too high an output impedance, too low an output power (especially on the current side), too worst a channel separation and sometime some combination of them (if not all). Most entry level DAP from well known Chinese brand these days can easily compete with them, not to mention mid- to high-end DAP. If you don't want to use a separated DAP, I'll suggest a half decent amp/DAC at least. If your smartphone supports LDAC or aptX, then a good quality Bluetooth adapter like FiiO BTR3 or EarStudio ES100 can be very an excellent addition as well.



I'm using a Samsung Note 4, snapdragon processor. It does support aptx and i think ldac too.

Supposedly it's dac is decent and fairly low output impedence. It may or may not have the wolfson dac the exynos versions have. I'm guessing probably so for the low power voice recognition pickup. I didn't look all that hard into it. There is a thread here on head-fi where someone measured this phone having a .67ohm output impedence. No noise floor or sound issues with low impedence iems.

I'm now using my mmcx earbuds mostly with the TRN BT20. Which has aac & sbc and currently only sbc with my android phone (well unless I bother to change the o.s. again). The convenience of true wireless makes enough of a difference to me, that the loss of quality vs wired is fine for my use. I'm using these out and about: going to the store, working in the garage, walking around, etc. So mostly no critical listening and not at high enough volumes that I'm unaware of my surroundings.



Otto Motor said:


> I use the audioquest dragonfly black on the iphone SE and the ST-10 sounds much better with it: fuller, more volume.



Cool. I've got plenty of volume but a fuller, more detailed sound may be worth trying a new device. Either a dac/amp or something like the btr3 or es100.

Food for thought. For now.


----------



## cocolinho

Marcos Fontana said:


> You should try to listen to ZoomFred. I believe that is exactly what you are looking for. It's my best and ones that do it better than anything.


I wish I could try them one day, it will avoid an expensive blind purchase!


----------



## subwoof3r

Otto Motor said:


> Smabat told me not to return mine at all.


Did you get your pair from NiceHCK or directly from Smabat.com ?
My pair seems also to suffer from MMCX loose and bad contacts too, this is a bit annoying sometimes.
The recommended trick from Smabat above is far to be secure, it is a very fragile part of MMCX connectors. I'm surprised they recommend to do this by ourselves.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

cocolinho said:


> I wish I could try them one day, it will avoid an expensive blind purchase!


You need to have a good source to show all the real power of ZoomFred. For example, the sound on my BL is awesome full. In LG V20 it sounds almost like a Vido. So, it´s really source dependent.


----------



## TheoS53

By the way, for those of you who rock earbuds that don't require a lot of power, I can't recommend the FiiO M6 enough as an ultra-portable and low-cost Android DAP. Here's my review:


----------



## cocolinho

Marcos Fontana said:


> You need to have a good source to show all the real power of ZoomFred. For example, the sound on my BL is awesome full. In LG V20 it sounds almost like a Vido. So, it´s really source dependent.


I probably won't buy, I can afford them but not ready to fire USD300 for a plastic earbuds... maybe sound is fantastic but I'm afraid to be disappointed actually


----------



## groucho69

subwoof3r said:


> Did you get your pair from NiceHCK or directly from Smabat.com ?
> My pair seems also to suffer from MMCX loose and bad contacts too, this is a bit annoying sometimes.
> The recommended trick from Smabat above is far to be secure, it is a very fragile part of MMCX connectors. I'm surprised they recommend to do this by ourselves.



Don't accept that as a final solution. They should be replaced...free.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

cocolinho said:


> I probably won't buy, I can afford them but not ready to fire USD300 for a plastic earbuds... maybe sound is fantastic but I'm afraid to be disappointed actually


It's impossible to get disappointed with ZoomFred. But there are a lot of options, including good headphones at this price. The point is that I live in a extremely hot country (Brazil) where I can't stand using headphones for a long time. I can't stand iems anymore too. I have just one option. Here sometimes is so hot even to use one ksc75. So, for me, ZoomFred is impossible to replace while I'm living here. Maybe for a Red Dragon (tuned as a lcd3) that I will buy in a near future.


----------



## waynes world

MelodyMood said:


> They are nice. I also have them. From 1st Gen iPod. Very nice sound. *Much better than the available earbuds now a days.*



I haven't heard them, but my guess is that you're going to get a wee bit of pushback on that assertion lol!


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> I haven't heard them, but my guess is that you're going to get a wee bit of pushback on that assertion lol!



He probably has not heard ALL of the currently available earbuds


----------



## subwoof3r (Apr 23, 2019)

Sharing some photos I just took from my ST-10 equiped with my fresh received pure 7N copper cable, looks great, incredible sound, I'm so happy!


----------



## Otto Motor

subwoof3r said:


> Did you get your pair from NiceHCK or directly from Smabat.com ?
> My pair seems also to suffer from MMCX loose and bad contacts too, this is a bit annoying sometimes.
> The recommended trick from Smabat above is far to be secure, it is a very fragile part of MMCX connectors. I'm surprised they recommend to do this by ourselves.


From NiceHCK. It took a bit of communication between me, Smabat, and NiceHCK (in all possible combinations). Smabat accepted the warranty issue and let me know I'd receive a new pair through NiceHCK without having to return the old pair. NiceHCK had never heard of that but communicated with Smabat to confirm this.

Initially, I had offered to return the ST-10s to NiceHCK at my expense so that they can recover their cost. But this is redundant as Smabat acknowledge their fauxpass. In fact, Smabat's customer service was spot on, and so was NiceHCK's.


----------



## Moonstar (Apr 23, 2019)

Here are my short impression for the ISN Rambo earbud 

The ISN Audio Rambo is the first earbud experience of this company, but has a quite mature tuning. The bass is not the strongest point of the Rambo, but the clarity, definition and airiness of the midrange and the well tuned treble range that sound pretty detail and fatigue free will impress many earbud lovers.

*Full Review:*
https://moonstarreviews.net/isn-audio-rambo-earbud-review/

*Pros and Cons:*

+ Clarity and transparency
+ Midrange tonality
+ Treble extension and control
+ Fit and Comfort

- A bit bass shy
- Cable is prone to intertwines
- Soundstage depth
*Some Favourite Shots:
*


----------



## subwoof3r

Otto Motor said:


> From NiceHCK. It took a bit of communication between me, Smabat, and NiceHCK (in all possible combinations). Smabat accepted the warranty issue and let me know I'd receive a new pair through NiceHCK without having to return the old pair. NiceHCK had never heard of that but communicated with Smabat to confirm this.
> 
> Initially, I had offered to return the ST-10s to NiceHCK at my expense so that they can recover their cost. But this is redundant as Smabat acknowledge their fauxpass. In fact, Smabat's customer service was spot on, and so was NiceHCK's.


Many thanks for the infos, will try to contact Jim ASAP


----------



## TechnoidFR

subwoof3r said:


> Did you get your pair from NiceHCK or directly from Smabat.com ?
> My pair seems also to suffer from MMCX loose and bad contacts too, this is a bit annoying sometimes.
> The recommended trick from Smabat above is far to be secure, it is a very fragile part of MMCX connectors. I'm surprised they recommend to do this by ourselves.



Same problem here ! Interesting but bad QC...


----------



## MelodyMood

waynes world said:


> I haven't heard them, but my guess is that you're going to get a wee bit of pushback on that assertion lol!


You will change your opinion when you hear them. I am not talking about Earpods but older apple earbuds (which used to come with iPod v1 or v2 time).


----------



## MelodyMood

mbwilson111 said:


> He probably has not heard ALL of the currently available earbuds


I have/had many of today's available ones like Monk+, Yincow X6, TP16, Edifier P180 etc. But while they are good, I feel they don't match the clarity and smoothness of Apple Earbuds. I wish they can but sadly no


----------



## MelodyMood

mbwilson111 said:


> He probably has not heard ALL of the currently available earbuds


Also, Apple earbuds uses Half Metal Shell and I guess that makes some difference in sound quality.


----------



## musicday

subwoof3r said:


> Sharing some photos I just took from my ST-10 equiped with my fresh received pure 7N copper cable, looks great, incredible sound, I'm so happy!


Link for this cable and best price for ST10 please? I want to experiment with the Tera-Player.
Thank you.


----------



## waynes world (Apr 23, 2019)

MelodyMood said:


> They are nice. I also have them. From 1st Gen iPod. Very nice sound. Much better than the available earbuds now a days. Not sure why Apple stopped them and went for very uncomfortable Earpods. I wish I can get new pairs of these 1st or 2nd Gen ones with Mic





MelodyMood said:


> You will change your opinion when you hear them. I am not talking about Earpods but older apple earbuds (which used to come with iPod v1 or v2 time).





MelodyMood said:


> I have/had many of today's available ones like Monk+, Yincow X6, TP16, Edifier P180 etc. But while they are good, I feel they don't match the clarity and smoothness of Apple Earbuds. I wish they can but sadly no



Ok, so what you are really saying is "IMO, they sound much better than any of the <$20 buds that I have heard". Got it.

I'd be happy to check them out, but my guess is that they are next to impossible to find.

Edit: btw, you should check out the Kubes, Sabia's and ANN200s of the world. They are older Indonesian earbuds, yet they sound great and are enjoying a resurgence of popularity now. I'd be interested to see how you feel they compare to the apple buds.


----------



## MelodyMood

waynes world said:


> Ok, so what you are really saying is "IMO, they sound much better than any of the <$20 buds that I have heard". Got it.
> 
> I'd be happy to check them out, but my guess is that they are next to impossible to find.
> 
> Edit: btw, you should check out the Kubes, Sabia's and ANN200s of the world. They are older Indonesian earbuds, yet they sound great and are enjoying a resurgence of popularity now. I'd be interested to see how you feel they compare to the apple buds.


I guess you can still find them. Ebay and I also saw on AE: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FOR...html?spm=2114.11010108.10001.5.650c649btyudYF. But the one I had was not with mic so hope this one sounds exactly like that.


----------



## ClieOS

MelodyMood said:


> I guess you can still find them. Ebay and I also saw on AE: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FOR...html?spm=2114.11010108.10001.5.650c649btyudYF. But the one I had was not with mic so hope this one sounds exactly like that.



There are boats' load of fake Apple iBuds out there, just so everyone knows.


----------



## MelodyMood

ClieOS said:


> There are boats' load of fake Apple iBuds out there, just so everyone knows.


Possible. 


MelodyMood said:


> I guess you can still find them. Ebay and I also saw on AE: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FOR...html?spm=2114.11010108.10001.5.650c649btyudYF. But the one I had was not with mic so hope this one sounds exactly like that.


I don't see them available easily and mostly surely not with Mic. I need Mic so I can take calls also while I listen to the songs.


----------



## ValSilva (Apr 23, 2019)

Today I received my Ibasso DX120, this can easily drive the Zen ZOE - 300 Ohm  beautiful sound:


----------



## waynes world (Apr 23, 2019)

MelodyMood said:


> I guess you can still find them. Ebay and I also saw on AE: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FOR...html?spm=2114.11010108.10001.5.650c649btyudYF. But the one I had was not with mic so hope this one sounds exactly like that.



$7? That was an easy "buy now". I'll let you know what I think


----------



## MelodyMood

waynes world said:


> $7? That was an easy "buy now". I'll let you know what I think


Sure. If you buy, I love to read your review. Any idea abt Remax RM-305? Seems to be good earbud but not too sure abt sound signature. Hope they are not harsh.


----------



## waynes world

Listening to the Faaeal Originals and the  64's. Between them and the SL1.0+'s (among others), they make damn fine buds! (budget or otherwise!)


----------



## MelodyMood

waynes world said:


> Listening to the Faaeal Originals and the  64's. Between them and the SL1.0+'s (among others), they make damn fine buds! (budget or otherwise!)


What kind of sound signature they have?


----------



## ClieOS




----------



## GREQ

waynes world said:


> Edit: btw, you should check out the Kubes, Sabia's and ANN200s of the world. They are older Indonesian earbuds, yet they sound great and are enjoying a resurgence of popularity now. I'd be interested to see how you feel they compare to the apple buds.



 

So, I've still got my minty 'new' 2007 apple earbuds that came with my iPod Classic Video 80GB (which is still my daily driver after all these years).
I've only used it for 5-10 hours (really not sure), and only even opened the packaging last summer/autumn when I first compared it to my Kubes.
(I've also got at least one more new (never used) still in it's packaging that came with a pre 2010 iPod nano, and possibly another in an iPod shuffle box somewhere...)

Like most buds, I can't use it without foam or there is huge bass roll-off.

My verdict is that it's quite different to MX500-shell based buds.
These have a different fit to the other buds, so if like me you can't get the best fit without actually pushing the buds slightly closer to your ear canals, you will hear considerable bass roll-off.
When looking at MX500 based buds, holding the 'stalk' up vertically, you notice the bud doesn't come out exactly perpendicular, but points slightly upwards.
The apple iBud (is that it's name?  ) does point directly perpendicular to it's stalk.

The absolute best sound from these buds I heard was WITHOUT foam, and manually applying pressure to get a better bass response.
In this instance, they do get close to competing with the other buds pictured above, but sub-bass is still very much lacking. Soundstage was also minimal, but that could be due to the bad fit.

WIth full foam, bass is VERY bloated and mid-bass focused. Not a good sound, but soundstage improved.
Donut foams provided the best compromise for my personal use, but I don't really see myself using these when the other sound better to me, simply due to the better fit.
In any case, I always thought there was some tonality issues in the midrange too.
I think I _might _be able to use these with those extremely thin 'itchy' looking foams, but I don't have any at home to try.

Overall, I wouldn't recommend them, especially to MX500-based bud lovers. 
Even the Vidos just sounded more open, airy and articulate, with none of the obvious lack of bass.


----------



## fairx (Apr 24, 2019)

I picked my red RW-9 today and  have round 1 hour burn so far using my phone.

Just got back home and put the faom (100pcs per Usd) and listening again on my desktop setup.

Just curious what type of foam you guys use to squeeze the best SQ from this, since I notice there's a lot of donut supplied with the bud.

OOTB the sound did not disappointed me especially for the price. Easy recommendation.

Edit. 

Rw-9 just passed my acid test, Aisaka Yuka - Hikari Hikari track. The most difficult track to pleased in my listening collection.


----------



## TheoS53

fairx said:


> I picked my red RW-9 today and  have round 1 hour burn so far using my phone.
> 
> Just got back home and put the faom (100pcs per Usd) and listening again on my desktop setup.
> 
> ...



I like the idea of the donut foams and for some earbuds they really make a pleasant difference to tweaking/refining the signature...but I hate how impractical they are. At first when they're still a bit tight it's fine, but as they become stretched it's so heard to keep them centred on the bud, especially as they tend to move when placing the buds in my ears.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 24, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> Sharing some photos I just took from my ST-10 equiped with my fresh received pure 7N copper cable, looks great, incredible sound, I'm so happy!


That cable is one of top ranked on the budget chi fi cable thread right? (Although it's not exactly budget at around $95). Both the electrical measurements and subjective opinion of the guy who tested like 100+ cables said it was one of the best. Clean sound and solid bass.

I was thinking of buying this wire in bulk to make my own cables. How is the quality to feel and is it flexible enough?

Also in your opinion does it alter the sound?

It really looks great and I like how thick and the purity of the copper is nice. I think pure copper cables is the way I want to go as I value a full low end and a warmth in the mids. So if these cables do make a difference that's the sound I'd be looking for on my Mojito and some other earbuds.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

My [Moondrop VX Classic] arrived today. 

Out of the box, I'm fairly impressed. A nice smooth sound signature. These look like they could be harsh, but that could not be further from the truth. I would describe them as a relaxed, just south of neutral. Details come through with passion and accuracy. Vocals are strong in the mid range. Bass is refrained, but still present when needed. Soundstage is well thought after. 

Build quality is better than my quick photos show. A solid earbud from head to toe. While the housing are a bit flashy, the rest of the earbud is understated with sensible materials. My only issue is the R and L on the housings can be difficult to see. Best to use colorful foam covers to discern for the proper placement. 

These are good earbuds for extended use. The lightweight feel and also the easy going overall sound that neither has harsh highs or overpowering bass.


----------



## subwoof3r

seanc6441 said:


> That cable is one of top ranked on the budget chi fi cable thread right? (Although it's not exactly budget at around $95). Both the electrical measurements and subjective opinion of the guy who tested like 100+ cables said it was one of the best. Clean sound and solid bass.
> 
> I was thinking of buying this wire in bulk to make my own cables. How is the quality to feel and is it flexible enough?
> 
> ...



Yup! you are right, this is one of the best recommendations from @hakuzen list 
My initial impressions after few hours of burning is that it already reached my top cable choice. Sonically, it looks like the *7N from NiceHCK* that I reviewed recently. But this one looks having slightly better transparency/natural and best bass precision over the one from NiceHCK (by a slight margin).
My best cables choice will always be now on 7N pure/crystal copper. I slightly less believe in silver plated. I prefer the precision of the copper.
The wires used is this one : http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=5994 or this one : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1m-...-Hi-Res-99-99999-7N-Pure-OCC/32890538731.html
Extremely good material, but unfortunately it is one of my most less flexible and stiffer cables that I own, so not a real pleasure to manipulate. Wires are soft (not so much thought).
So to sum-up: sonically speaking: highly recommended 
Also, you can get it for 69$, let me know if youre interested on the link via PM, can't say here directly (as it is from a banned seller).
Cheers'


----------



## BadReligionPunk

TheoS53 said:


> I like the idea of the donut foams and for some earbuds they really make a pleasant difference to tweaking/refining the signature...but I hate how impractical they are. At first when they're still a bit tight it's fine, but as they become stretched it's so heard to keep them centred on the bud, especially as they tend to move when placing the buds in my ears.


I have to change donuts about every 2-3 weeks...
Atleast they are sorta cheap, although I prefer heigi foams usually. They are a bit more in cost.


----------



## TechnoidFR

TechnoidFR said:


> Same problem here ! Interesting but bad QC...



So

I saw with smabat for the moment ( thanks @Otto Motor they are reagent ). Test purpose me a solution, I think it's the same that they suggest you but I don't have tweezers St if I can't they say to see with AliExpress seller and confirm that the problem is already fix. 
Without this problem I found them very cool and very natural tonality for a neutral earbuds

I already have **** PT15 which is very warm and more fun but clearly not the same quality


----------



## viatraco

BloodyPenguin said:


> My [Moondrop VX Classic] arrived today.
> 
> Out of the box, I'm fairly impressed. A nice smooth sound signature. These look like they could be harsh, but that could not be further from the truth. I would describe them as a relaxed, just south of neutral. Details come through with passion and accuracy. Vocals are strong in the mid range. Bass is refrained, but still present when needed. Soundstage is well thought after.
> 
> ...



Thank you for impressions.
Did you compare with other earbuds from this price range ? Please share


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 24, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> Yup! you are right, this is one of the best recommendations from @hakuzen list
> My initial impressions after few hours of burning is that it already reached my top cable choice. Sonically, it looks like the *7N from NiceHCK* that I reviewed recently. But this one looks having slightly better transparency/natural and best bass precision over the one from NiceHCK (by a slight margin).
> My best cables choice will always be now on 7N pure/crystal copper. I slightly less believe in silver plated. I prefer the precision of the copper.
> The wires used is this one : http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=5994 or this one : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1m-...-Hi-Res-99-99999-7N-Pure-OCC/32890538731.html
> ...


Oh nice! I don't mind if it's not super flexible as long as it's loose braided so it won't hold too muxh memory and is good quality shielding. My K's ling cable is not soft but I still love the cable because of it's quality and the cable pictured looks even nicer.

How heavy is it? Is that an issue? I heard it may be heavier than other upgrade cables.

Thanks I might consider that and get back to you with a PM


----------



## mbwilson111

TheoS53 said:


> I like the idea of the donut foams and for some earbuds they really make a pleasant difference to tweaking/refining the signature...but I hate how impractical they are. At first when they're still a bit tight it's fine, but as they become stretched it's so heard to keep them centred on the bud, especially as they tend to move when placing the buds in my ears.



This is the reason I won't use donuts at all.


----------



## waynes world

GREQ said:


> So, I've still got my minty 'new' 2007 apple earbuds that came with my iPod Classic Video 80GB (which is still my daily driver after all these years).
> I've only used it for 5-10 hours (really not sure), and only even opened the packaging last summer/autumn when I first compared it to my Kubes.
> (I've also got at least one more new (never used) still in it's packaging that came with a pre 2010 iPod nano, and possibly another in an iPod shuffle box somewhere...)
> 
> ...



Next time, would you mind posting an uplifting review like that _before_ I press the "buy now" button? 

I wonder if the ones I got are even real. If fakes, maybe they will sound great!

Oh well, there goes $7 I could have put towards the Smabat's


----------



## waynes world

fairx said:


> I picked my red RW-9 today and  have round 1 hour burn so far using my phone.
> 
> Just got back home and put the faom (100pcs per Usd) and listening again on my desktop setup.
> 
> ...



I just checked, and I'm using donuts on them (not sure where I got them from). I think I'll try other foams for fun though.

p.s. glad they passed the acid test! I'm going to have to listen to that.


----------



## fairx

I rolled a few just now. Full thin foam, included donut and super porous foam. I think I'll stick to the full thin foam. And it still can produce certain frequency  that my iem can.

That particular song I test  usually muddy or muffled vocal with lesser iem or headphone but scaled well with the like of RHA, IE80 or anything that can produce better layering. In my possession that sound best is docomo long stem. Just IMHO


----------



## doldoy

Anyone know sellers in ebay or aliexpress that sell decent standard smooth surface replacement cable (non-mic and black color) ?


----------



## GREQ

waynes world said:


> I wonder if the ones I got are even real. If fakes, maybe they will sound great!


That's probably not as crazy as it sounds.


----------



## cathee

Anyone have any experience with Blur buds? I've spoken to Mr Wong already on Instagram but wanted to get a better feel for his products/service/communications etc. 

Any information you can share will be greatly apprecaited!


----------



## ClieOS

mbwilson111 said:


> This is the reason I won't use donuts at all.



This is the reason why these exist:


----------



## mbwilson111

cathee said:


> Anyone have any experience with Blur buds? I've spoken to Mr Wong already on Instagram but wanted to get a better feel for his products/service/communications etc.
> 
> Any information you can share will be greatly apprecaited!



There is actually a Blur thread that might have some info in it..

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blur-earbuds-lovers.884062/page-2


----------



## waynes world

TechnoidFR said:


> I already have **** PT15 which is very warm and more fun but clearly not the same quality



That's interesting - I find them to be more on the bright side and lighter on the bass.


----------



## cathee

mbwilson111 said:


> There is actually a Blur thread that might have some info in it..
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blur-earbuds-lovers.884062/page-2



Thanks Cap'n!


----------



## TechnoidFR

waynes world said:


> That's interesting - I find them to be more on the bright side and lighter on the bass.



Pt15 ? Than smabat?


----------



## waynes world

TechnoidFR said:


> Pt15 ? Than smabat?



I was referring to the PT15. I haven't heard the Smabat.

I guess I am just surprised that you are calling the PT15's "very warm" when I generally find them to be brighter than most of my earbuds (I'd better give them another listen though to make sure that I don't need to eat my words lol).


----------



## TechnoidFR

waynes world said:


> I was referring to the PT15. I haven't heard the Smabat.
> 
> I guess I am just surprised that you are calling the PT15's "very warm" when I generally find them to be brighter than most of my earbuds (I'd better give them another listen though to make sure that I don't need to eat my words lol).



I refer to my iem collectio, I really have little experienceb on earbuds. PT15 seems similar than eb2 that I lost, I can't compare, but in comparison of my iem and smabat they are clearly warm but very good for the price


----------



## waynes world

TechnoidFR said:


> I refer to my iem collectio, I really have little experienceb on earbuds. PT15 seems similar than eb2 that I lost, I can't compare, but in comparison of my iem and smabat they are clearly warm but very good for the price



Yes, they are very good for the price.


----------



## BloodyPenguin (Apr 24, 2019)

A nice friend over at Earbuds Anonymous offered to convert one of my JVC earbuds to a MMCX connection.  With some experimentation and hard work, I think it turned out great!

Such a fun sound and now functional cord (the stock J cable was WAY too short).








*BTW, does anyone know of anyone else in the USA who can modify earbuds?  I do not have the skills or equipment to do it.*

--


----------



## TechnoidFR

waynes world said:


> Yes, they are very good for the price.



I like the mmcx for a earbuds at this price


----------



## assassin10000

I like the mmcx connectors on the ST-10 cable and the cable that came with the EBX is a pretty nice 8 core silver plated/copper mix. 

Despite that, I prefer this setup most of the time:

 




If stationary cables are definitely better sonically.


----------



## mbwilson111

I was looking at my Kube and Sabia orders tonight (they shipped yesterday) and I noticed that the seller has added more Sabias to the listing... so now the Pearl, Rose and Standard are available... a few of each.  He also has a few of the ANN200.  Not many Kubes left...only black or white.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 24, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I was looking at my Kube and Sabia orders tonight (they shipped yesterday) and I noticed that the seller has added more Sabias to the listing... so now the Pearl, Rose and Standard are available... a few of each.  He also has a few of the ANN200.  Not many Kubes left...only black or white.


Would you mind linking me that listing? Or the sellers page even

The names are just colour variation right? They sound the same?

If they're cheap enough I might grab one out of curiosity.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 24, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> Would you mind linking me that listing? Or the sellers page even
> 
> The names are just colour variation right? They sound the same?
> 
> If they're cheap enough I might grab one out of curiosity.



The problem with finding them on ebay is that you have to use ebay.com... searching others like ebay.co.uk comes up empty

The Sabia listing is here:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/Elibuds-Sa...hash=item3408fbcb3d:m:mtylfDp3hmZXM3HpFU7nsoQ

The difference is the cable.  I have the Pearl and love it.  Rose is on the way.  When people first started recommending the Sabia they were talking about the Standard.

He explains the differences that the cables make.

The ANN200 is here :  https://www.ebay.com/itm/Earbud-ANN200-Earphone-Unique-MX500-Shell-Classic-Sound/223489031746?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160811114145&meid=eb4133cb95c7439b94b13ed879b74529&pid=100667&rk=2&rkt=8&sd=223489018685&itm=223489031746&_trksid=p2045573.c100667.m2042

Just search for EarKube to find the Kubes.  I hope he will offer the colors again.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> The problem with finding them on ebay is that you have to use ebay.com... searching others like ebay.co.uk comes up empty
> 
> The Sabia listing is here:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/Elibuds-Sa...hash=item3408fbcb3d:m:mtylfDp3hmZXM3HpFU7nsoQ
> 
> ...


That's brilliant thanks. Might get the pearl or rose since the cable looks much nicer for only a few euros extra.

Ideally the mmcx version would've suited but its out of stock.

The ann200 shell looks incredible. Love the stoney(?) finish.


----------



## seanc6441

If I'm ordering any I'll probably bundle together a sabia and ann200. Maybe an extra kube also.

Thanks again!


----------



## wskl

waynes world said:


> I was referring to the PT15. I haven't heard the Smabat.
> 
> I guess I am just surprised that you are calling the PT15's "very warm" when I generally find them to be brighter than most of my earbuds (I'd better give them another listen though to make sure that I don't need to eat my words lol).



I'm in agreement with Wayne, both the PT15 and the EB2 I find to be on the brighter side.

@TechnoidFR - you must be the first person to say that the PT15 is both warm and fun sounding on this thread.  I guess we all hear differently.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 24, 2019)

wskl said:


> I'm in agreement with Wayne, both the PT15 and the EB2 I find to be on the brighter side.
> 
> @TechnoidFR - you must be the first person to say that the PT15 is both warm and fun sounding on this thread.  I guess we all hear differently.


Eb2 definitely has a softer tilt with some brighter mids but smoother highs and a fairly rounded low end, not warm but not as bright as the pt15 which is the definition of a neutral- bright and bass light earbud.


----------



## toear

If you open up the port in the back you can bring the low end to the PT 15. I've done this to a couple of pairs. The PT15 in stock for was too mid high and forward for me to listen to so I took a drill to them.  Ymmv....



wskl said:


> I'm in agreement with Wayne, both the PT15 and the EB2 I find to be on the brighter side.
> 
> @TechnoidFR - you must be the first person to say that the PT15 is both warm and fun sounding on this thread.  I guess we all hear differently.


----------



## waynes world (Apr 24, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I was looking at my Kube and Sabia orders tonight (they shipped yesterday) and I noticed that the seller has added more Sabias to the listing... so now the Pearl, Rose and Standard are available... a few of each.  He also has a few of the ANN200.  Not many Kubes left...only black or white.





mbwilson111 said:


> The problem with finding them on ebay is that you have to use ebay.com... searching others like ebay.co.uk comes up empty
> 
> The Sabia listing is here:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/Elibuds-Sa...hash=item3408fbcb3d:m:mtylfDp3hmZXM3HpFU7nsoQ
> 
> ...



Just to add to your excellent info:






I kinda want the version that's sold out! (mmcx version)

And some info about the "SMULE app":
https://www.smule.com/apps


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> The ann200 shell looks incredible. Love the stoney(?) finish.



They do have a funky cool tactile finish. And they sound great to boot 



toear said:


> If you open up the port in the back you can bring the low end to the PT 15. I've done this to a couple of pairs. The PT15 in stock for was too mid high and forward for me to listen to so I took a drill to them.  Ymmv....



I'd like to do that. Just make the port bigger? How much?


----------



## toear (Apr 24, 2019)

waynes world said:


> I'd like to do that. Just make the port bigger? How much?



I believe mine ended up being circular but a touch wide than the stock vent... Maybe about 2mm in diameter? I have two modded. One is slightly larger than the other but I also played with stuffing the chamber with different materials from foam, to cotton, to rock wool, just too see what the difference was if any. Right now one has a bit of foam I believe. Can't remember if it also has a bit of cotton. I am playing with density of the materials as well as restriction of air flow between the driver and the port. Currently I've gotten rid of the sibilant mid hump and blended the mid/low mid better. Bad and sub extend nicely without bloat. Sound stage is nice and wide. Depth is pretty good as well but not as deep as something like the Qian 69. What I do like is that the sound seems to be more in front of you... Again ymmv. Either way I went from not wanting to listen to the PT15 to getting a second pair to mod and as a back up. I have since mashed one pair up and have replaced the drivers with Vido drivers (big sound and space, but rolled off a bit at the top as per driver limitations)..

Back up set is ported, tuned, and running well.


----------



## TechnoidFR

wskl said:


> I'm in agreement with Wayne, both the PT15 and the EB2 I find to be on the brighter side.
> 
> @TechnoidFR - you must be the first person to say that the PT15 is both warm and fun sounding on this thread.  I guess we all hear differently.



I have another expérience and, like I said, I have not experience on earbuds. This sound, Which seems for you briggt and neutral, sound for me warm in comparison of a lot of iem. Very interesting thing.

The experience have an important part on the sound perception.

But smabat is for me neutral and lightly bright in comparison of pt15


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> Just received the RY4C earbuds today for the tidy sum of £2.33 shipped from China ordered on the 22nd February. Nice shells, cable is a little rubbery but absolutely fine. I'm surprised at the bass on these little things gives a good thump, mids are fine and highs are crystal clear giving good air but well controlled. Bargain of the year (I know it's early)



I just received mine (ordered mar05). Bargain of the year? You crazy? No, you're not crazy. Yup, bargain of the year. I can't believe I'm enjoying $4 buds so much. Crazy stuff!


----------



## subwoof3r

seanc6441 said:


> Oh nice! I don't mind if it's not super flexible as long as it's loose braided so it won't hold too muxh memory and is good quality shielding. My K's ling cable is not soft but I still love the cable because of it's quality and the cable pictured looks even nicer.
> 
> How heavy is it? Is that an issue? I heard it may be heavier than other upgrade cables.
> 
> Thanks I might consider that and get back to you with a PM


Yesterday I just made some weight measurements *here*  : average of 36g for this cable
This is my heavier ever cable,
I'm thinking to get another one, as I truely enjoy its sound


----------



## TechnoidFR (Apr 25, 2019)

@Otto Motor and all smabat st10 user, I confirm that the solution of smabat is good ! You can see pin connector slightly but no problem ! Connection is good now ! I treate if connection lose with moving cable and absolutely no disconnection

Finally that was risky ( last picture )
For the moment the other pin is ok for the right but be careful...


----------



## snip3r77

Guys try this if you're using your PC and spotify

https://www.reddit.com/r/spotify/comments/afc9si/asio_output_from_within_spotify_replacement_for/


----------



## GREQ

snip3r77 said:


> Guys try this if you're using your PC and spotify
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/spotify/comments/afc9si/asio_output_from_within_spotify_replacement_for/


The first sentence in the post is simply false.
Once you've turned off all audio enhancements, there is absolutely no colouration or DSP added to the audio signal in windows, which makes ASIO and WASAPI totally redundant for most end-users and consumers.


----------



## snip3r77

GREQ said:


> The first sentence in the post is simply false.
> Once you've turned off all audio enhancements, there is absolutely no colouration or DSP added to the audio signal in windows, which makes ASIO and WASAPI totally redundant for most end-users and consumers.



it works for me.


----------



## GREQ

snip3r77 said:


> it works for me.


Oh, I'm sure it works.
I'm just saying it's a waste of time.


----------



## fairx

Guys 

Do you consider RW-9 as recessed mids or V shaped? 

I'm having hard time making my mind.


----------



## waynes world

fairx said:


> Guys
> 
> Do you consider RW-9 as recessed mids or V shaped?
> 
> I'm having hard time making my mind.



In my mind, "V shaped" usually means "more recessed mids" (relative to the lows and highs). I think the RW-9's have less recessed mids, and therefore are less V-shaped, and more balanced.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 25, 2019)

fairx said:


> Guys
> 
> Do you consider RW-9 as recessed mids or V shaped?
> 
> I'm having hard time making my mind.





waynes world said:


> In my mind, "V shaped" usually means "more recessed mids" (relative to the lows and highs). I think the RW-9's have less recessed mids, and therefore are less V-shaped, and more balanced.


These are all loosely defined terms. Call it whatever you want because without measurements it could be anything as we all hear differently.

Using the term V shape to me literally only means 'the frequency response is roughly emphasised on both ends and dipped in the middle'.

I will not read too much into such basic terms other than to get an idea what to expect. So 'recessed mids' or V shape to me do mean something similar but beyond that who is to say exactly what that means to each induvidual?

I don't think you can be accurate with these descriptions tbh.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> These are all loosely defined terms. Call it whatever you want because without measurements it could be anything as we all hear differently.
> 
> Using the term V shape to me literally only means 'the frequency response is roughly emphasised on both ends and dipped in the middle'.
> 
> ...



I'd love to argue with you, but I can't think of anything to argue about


----------



## fairx (Apr 25, 2019)

I'm thinking that (relative to my choice of foams which is porous foam ATM) rw-9 is recessed mids or slight V. Because I had to move my volume knob more than usual to match my desired mids / highs when changing track, regardless of replay gain. With more balance earbuds like my docomo its less an issue.

Rw-9 highs is brilliant with full or porous foam but to get my desired mids I use porous, at the expense of highs getting hot on some track. Still not harsh and very iem like IMO. Full foam smooths thing out a little bit but not my cup, ie listening to guitar or rock.

Will work on my multi hole foam mod like ClieOS.

Edit

Oh I'm not thinking about what the term really means, just wondering if anybody else think rw-9 sound is really V or is it just my hearing / my gear choice


----------



## waynes world (Apr 25, 2019)

fairx said:


> Oh I'm not thinking about what the term really means, just wondering if anybody else think rw-9 sound is really V or is it just my hearing / my gear choice



A lot (most?) of my buds are _more_ V-shaped than the RW-9's (imo). So no, I don't think they are really V shaped.


----------



## Willber

All my buds are Willber-shaped.
EQ FTW! 

Currently assessing: 
Dunu Alpha 1 (The first DD/BA hybrid earbud)

Incoming:
RW-9
Sabia v6
Fengru Silver


----------



## waynes world

Willber said:


> All my buds are Willber-shaped.
> EQ FTW!



Beautiful!


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> All my buds are Willber-shaped.



Many of  mine are Panda shaped


----------



## groucho69 (Apr 25, 2019)

waynes world said:


> I'd love to argue with you, but I can't think of anything to argue about


----------



## waynes world

groucho69 said:


>




LOL! I don't want to argue about it, but that's one of the best skits ever!


----------



## groucho69

waynes world said:


> LOL! I don't want to argue about it, but that's one of the best skits ever!



No it isn't.


----------



## rkw

GREQ said:


> Once you've turned off all audio enhancements, there is absolutely no colouration or DSP added to the audio signal in windows, which makes ASIO and WASAPI totally redundant for most end-users and consumers.


Even with audio enhancements turned off, doesn't audio go through through the Windows mixer and resampling unless you use ASIO or WASAPI (e.g. for bit perfect output)?


----------



## mbwilson111

The first orange Kube V1 that I odered back in January arrived in the UK on January 30.  Then the tracking stopped.  Well, it finally turned up!   Unfortunately not at my house.  It was delivered to the seller...back in Indonesia where it began its journey. LOL.  What adventures has it had over these past three months?


----------



## ClieOS

rkw said:


> Even with audio enhancements turned off, doesn't audio go through through the Windows mixer and resampling unless you use ASIO or WASAPI (e.g. for bit perfect output)?



Yes. The real question is of course whether you can tell the difference or not.


----------



## ClieOS

mbwilson111 said:


> The first orange Kube V1 that I odered back in January arrived in the UK on January 30.  Then the tracking stopped.  Well, it finally turned up!   Unfortunately not at my house.  It was delivered to the seller...back in Indonesia where it began its journey. LOL.  What adventures has it had over these past three months?



A few years ago one of my package coming from HK to Malaysia took a 9 months detour to Africa. Now that's an adventure!


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 25, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> A few years ago one of my package coming from HK to Malaysia took a 9 months detour to Africa. Now that's an adventure!



At least you received it...I guess mine did not want to live in the UK.

Haha..the tracking actually updated.  I had stopped looking at it weeks ago.  The seller messaged me after he received it.

Number:  RR046935132ID
Package status:  Alert
Destination:  United Kingdom
Origin:  Indonesia
2019-04-25 09:39 JAKARTATIMUR 13000, Item Out for Physical Delivery
2019-01-30 16:07 UNITED KINGDOM GB, Arrival at inward OE
2019-01-16 10:19 JAKARTA MPC IDJKTC, Departure from outward OE
2019-01-16 10:17 JAKARTA MPC IDJKTC, Arrival at outward OE
2019-01-15 21:42 JAKARTAPUSAT 10000, Posting/Collection

======================================
Powered by www.17track.net


----------



## MelodyMood

Any review of Remax RM-305? Specially where it is compared with other earbuds like Monk+, TP16 etc.?


----------



## Willber (Apr 25, 2019)

MelodyMood said:


> Any review of Remax RM-305? Specially where it is compared with other earbuds like Monk+, TP16 etc.?


I used the search function at the top-right of the page and found this:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/remax-rm-305m-aluminum-earbud.22070/reviews#review-17500


----------



## GREQ (Apr 26, 2019)

rkw said:


> Even with audio enhancements turned off, doesn't audio go through through the Windows mixer and resampling unless you use ASIO or WASAPI (e.g. for bit perfect output)?


No. It's a myth.
ASIO was only relevant for the days of WinXP and the infamous Kmixer audio kernel.
It is no longer necessary, unless you're using an outdated toaster PC.


----------



## fairx

I always wondering in newer Windows how's the resampling works? I mean in android we have sinc resampler IIRC


----------



## BabyLamb89

Trying out my first taobao agent today. I have ordered the new Yincrow rw-100s and the Panda PK2s. Hopefully it all goes smoothly enough.


----------



## fairx (Apr 26, 2019)

Just experiment with multi hole full foam and AB with super porous foam. Porous foam wins IMO. Lol no matter how big I burn the hole (using solder iron) the sound can't match porous.

I mean, take "Polica - I see my mother" track for instance. With full foam it sounded ok, but bass is one note. With porous foam the vocal left and right creeps in from behind  like I never heard before! Like 5.1 dedicated speaker at my back left and right. Reminds me of movie theater for a moment. That alone will make up for the low amount of bass ( I like faster bass anyway so it's no concern)

Will keep porous for my rw-9 until I find something better.


----------



## waynes world

fairx said:


> Will keep porous for my rw-9 until I find something better.



I might snag some. They look itchy though!

Btw, have you tried the VE thin foams on the RW-9's? I'm gonna try them.


----------



## DBaldock9

Interesting thing about the K's K600 - while they may not have the _most _low Bass, their Bass is the most _real sounding _and _visceral. _Earbuds can't actually "punch you in the chest", like speakers, but the K600 sure come close.


----------



## mbwilson111

fairx said:


> Just experiment with multi hole full foam and AB with super porous foam. Porous foam wins IMO. Lol no matter how big I burn the hole (using solder iron) the sound can't match porous.
> 
> I mean, take "Polica - I see my mother" track for instance. With full foam it sounded ok, but bass is one note. With porous foam the vocal left and right creeps in from behind  like I never heard before! Like 5.1 dedicated speaker at my back left and right. Reminds me of movie theater for a moment. That alone will make up for the low amount of bass ( I like faster bass anyway so it's no concern)
> 
> Will keep porous for my rw-9 until I find something better.





waynes world said:


> I might snag some. They look itchy though!



They look rough and scratchy like a pad for scrubbing pots and pans.


----------



## fairx

waynes world said:


> I might snag some. They look itchy though!
> 
> Btw, have you tried the VE thin foams on the RW-9's? I'm gonna try them.


 unfortunately I already out of VE thin foam. Will try to ask friends if they have some.

The foam felt OK to my ear. Maybe a little alien at first try but I get used to it.



mbwilson111 said:


> They look rough and scratchy like a pad for scrubbing pots and pans.


 that exactly what my friend says when he first saw it. But he's also have no complain with the scratchy feels.

But I must say having super porous foam sound not much different naked. Maybe bass lifted a bit  and high not as sharp. I like them with my ty-hi-z 320 and docomo for instance. Slight better seal without much difference in tonality.

It's pretty cheap I might order another batch. The sunyou shipping is slow though.


----------



## waynes world (Apr 26, 2019)

DBaldock9 said:


> Interesting thing about the K's K600 - while they may not have the _most _low Bass, their Bass is the most _real sounding _and _visceral. _Earbuds can't actually "punch you in the chest", like speakers, but the K600 sure come close.



You my friend, are a dangerous type of hypster!


----------



## HungryPanda

I agree David the K's K600 were the first earbuds that made feel I had full sized headphones on


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 26, 2019)

fairx said:


> Just experiment with multi hole full foam and AB with super porous foam. Porous foam wins IMO. Lol no matter how big I burn the hole (using solder iron) the sound can't match porous.
> 
> I mean, take "Polica - I see my mother" track for instance. With full foam it sounded ok, but bass is one note. With porous foam the vocal left and right creeps in from behind  like I never heard before! Like 5.1 dedicated speaker at my back left and right. Reminds me of movie theater for a moment. That alone will make up for the low amount of bass ( I like faster bass anyway so it's no concern)
> 
> Will keep porous for my rw-9 until I find something better.


That's because adding seal increases bass below approx 200hz. Unfortunately that means the mid bass takes as much of a bump as the sub bass. So any bassy earbuds (read mid bassy) will be exaggerated with full foams.

Now, if you were to use corrective EQ as an experiment and reduce the 100-200 hz range. You'd have youself deeper, equally clean bass as the pourous foams.

But the other factor is the openess of the pourous foam probably gives a more natural sound decay, but that effect is definitely a secondary factor. Also the treble dampening factor, but that shouldnt be an issue with multi hole foams like this.


----------



## fairx

I scour my drawer and found a pair of beat up thin VE foam. I must say it's sound very good. Balance the sound of rw-9 even more without reducing much resolution.

But for local metal band Khalifah for instance, I still prefer porous. More crunchy guitar. 

But despite all this it still missing the lush lower mids (?) of Ry4s. Rw-9 too clean sounding for that part IMO


----------



## doldoy

Anyone know any earbuds that have same sound signature similar to Toneking TP16 ?


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 26, 2019)

The *HP760 *earbud (prototype; left on the photo with my old *Sennheiser MX-560* on the right). When @HungryPanda kindly gave them to me in London (sea level, humid climate) the left earpiece's bass didn't work and only caused a crackling sound. 6 weeks later in Calgary (1100 m above sea level, semi-arid climate), the earbuds suddenly work perfectly fine.

I can only speculate it was moisture that had caused the issue.

Oh...and the HP760 sound better than the Senns.


----------



## HungryPanda

Otto Motor said:


> The *HungryPanda HP760 *earbud (left on the photo with the *Sennheiser MX-560* on the right): it features a QIGOM 15.4 mm driver. When @HungryPanda gave them to me in London (sea level, humid climate) the left earpiece's bass didn't work and only caused a crackling sound. 6 weeks later in Calgary (1100 m above sea level, semi-arid climate), the earbuds suddenly work perfectly fine.
> 
> I can only speculate it was moisture that had caused the issue.
> 
> Oh...and the HP760 sound better than the Senns.


Wow I am glad they are working ok as I tested them when I made them and they were fine then


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Hum hum.
Unlucky NymPHONO always get bad quality check earbuds....and begin to be mad about it. 
My EBX was having some issue with MMCX connection but finally heal by himself....thanks God.

Now its the ST-10, with both buds...intermittent disconnection that make it hell to use.

Honnestly: any of you got this issue???? Any way to solve it?


----------



## HungryPanda

People are contacting smabat and NiceHCK and are getiing replacements


----------



## mbwilson111

NymPHONOmaniac said:


> Hum hum.
> Unlucky NymPHONO always get bad quality check earbuds....and begin to be mad about it.
> My EBX was having some issue with MMCX connection but finally heal by himself....thanks God.
> 
> ...



There are more posts about it if you keep reading.... Smabat is prepared to replace those with problem... they think it is their fault ..

I don't have a problem but you didn't either at the beginning did you?


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> People are contacting smabat and NiceHCK and are getiing replacements



Should I?  or, actually you as you ordered them.  is it likely to happen since I have the early batch too?


----------



## HungryPanda

Only if they are faulty


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> Only if they are faulty



With the faulty ones, did everyone have a problem right from the beginning?


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

mbwilson111 said:


> There are more posts about it if you keep reading.... Smabat is prepared to replace those with problem... they think it is their fault ..
> 
> I don't have a problem but you didn't either at the beginning did you?


At the begining, it was first impressions, I was thinking it was the cable and yeah, it was less problematic, just one side and now that I test with all my cable I conclude its worst and not possible to repair. Hum, yeah replacement....I understandits first batch and might be solve in next one. They sound fabulous (not metallic at all LOL and i enjoy Bach cello sonata with it ALOT)


----------



## mbwilson111

NymPHONOmaniac said:


> At the begining, it was first impressions, I was thinking it was the cable and yeah, it was less problematic, just one side and now that I test with all my cable I conclude its worst and not possible to repair. Hum, yeah replacement....I understandits first batch and might be solve in next one. They sound fabulous (not metallic at all LOL and i enjoy Bach cello sonata with it ALOT)



I think people are contacting Smabat directly and I know at least one person was told they do not need to send it back.  I  know some sellers like a video of you smashing the faulty ones so they know you aren't just trying to get an extra one.

You certainly can't enjoy your music with the crackling now .


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Otto Motor said:


> The *HungryPanda HP760 *earbud (prototype; left on the photo with the *Sennheiser MX-560* on the right). When @HungryPanda gave them to me in London (sea level, humid climate) the left earpiece's bass didn't work and only caused a crackling sound. 6 weeks later in Calgary (1100 m above sea level, semi-arid climate), the earbuds suddenly work perfectly fine.
> 
> I can only speculate it was moisture that had caused the issue.
> 
> Oh...and the HP760 sound better than the Senns.



Really nice that you meet the Panda, this creature is know to hide himself very well.

In another hand, man, OTTO, do you plan to buy a portable DAC-AMP or a DAP one day?? Dragonfly isn't very powerfull, I guess its a little more powerfull than Audirect beam....but still, i'm an ultimate believer that its better to have too much (stable) power than just enough when it come to earbuds or headphones. I push technoidFR to try something else than its phone and  I think it kinda change his life.


----------



## mbwilson111

NymPHONOmaniac said:


> .but still, i'm an ultimate believer that its better to have too much (stable) power than just enough when it come to earbuds or headphones



I agree.  People think everything is ok as long as the volume is enough.. but that is not the whole story.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

mbwilson111 said:


> I think people are contacting Smabat directly and I know at least one person was told they do not need to send it back.  I  know some sellers like a video of you smashing the faulty ones so they know you aren't just trying to get an extra one.
> 
> You certainly can't enjoy your music with the crackling now .



A video will be very easy to do. But...is it possible to contact directly smabat? If so, a link would be appreciate....to avoid harassing JIM. (it was a review sample and i dont like asking replacement to seller when I don't pay....too humble and gratefull, so I deal with it, and keep broken stuff, like TRN IM1, EP10 etc hum)

yeah amping, i need to understand all this power output specs better, its confusing....right now I use 2xbalanced output  on my Radsone ES100, it make my Final Audio E4000 sound incredible, way more open and lively and beefy. Just wow. But too powerfull bad amping like the Walnut V2s that is hissy and crazy loud do not help. Clean but powerfull amping with precise volume control. You can add digital high gain to anything really, but its not the same and distortion is way higher than proper analog amping.


----------



## waynes world

NymPHONOmaniac said:


> yeah amping, i need to understand all this power output specs better, its confusing....right now I use 2xbalanced output  on my Radsone ES100, it make my Final Audio E4000 sound incredible, way more open and lively and beefy. Just wow. But too powerfull bad amping like the Walnut V2s that is hissy and crazy loud do not help. Clean but powerfull amping with precise volume control. You can add digital high gain to anything really, but its not the same and distortion is way higher than proper analog amping.



I was going to say that I'm more than happy with how my ES100 makes my buds sound. But I see you enjoy it as well.


----------



## mbwilson111

NymPHONOmaniac said:


> is it possible to contact directly smabat? If so, a link would be appreciate....to avoid harassing JIM. (it was a review sample and i dont like asking replacement to seller when I don't pay....too humble and gratefull, so I deal with it, and keep broken stuff, like TRN IM1, EP10 etc hum)



I have not looked for a link... there have been posts about this... maybe a search in the thread would help.  There has also been advice for trying to fix it yourself.  Something inside the jack or plug.  I know I would not be able to do it but others are more confident.  I think Otto said when he tried it just made it worse.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 26, 2019)

NymPHONOmaniac said:


> Really nice that you meet the Panda, this creature is know to hide himself very well.
> 
> In another hand, man, OTTO, do you plan to buy a portable DAC-AMP or a DAP one day?? Dragonfly isn't very powerfull, I guess its a little more powerfull than Audirect beam....but still, i'm an ultimate believer that its better to have too much (stable) power than just enough when it come to earbuds or headphones. I push technoidFR to try something else than its phone and  I think it kinda change his life.


I do have the FiiO Montblanc E12 amp...and the Shanling M0 low-output-impedance player...and for my computer I have the Schiit Fulla dongle amp. The day will come when I buy a dap...I really love the convenience of my iPhone.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac (Apr 26, 2019)

Otto Motor said:


> I do have the FiiO Montblanc E12 amp...and the Shanling M0 low-output player...and for my computer I have the Schiit Fulla dongle amp.


Oh, nice, the Fulla should do with most earbuds then. Was thinking you just have the Dragonfly.


And for the strange silicone tips, i laugh when I see it and never use it....it make no sens to me, but perhaps i'm wrong. I use donut. Always.

EDIT: THANKS OTTO!!


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 26, 2019)

NymPHONOmaniac said:


> I use donut. Always.



I am not that advanced yet. Initially, I didn't use any covers, then I tried the donuts with some, recently I found the VE EX pack and started playing around with the full foams.

So far, I have shredded about 50% of all covers when pulling them over. It reminds me of trying to make my first bubbles with chewing gum or my first rollies with Dutch halfzware tobacco (as a teenager).

I hope practice will make perfect.

P.S. As to *Smabat*...they claim their included cable ruins the earpieces' connectors. This morning, I tried to connect an MMCX cable to a premium earphone...and no peep came out of the earpieces. Turns out everything was so tight that I had to use a bit of force. However, these MMCX connectors look much sturdier than the ones in the Smabat or Tinaudio T2. There must be different grades...


----------



## mbwilson111

Otto Motor said:


> I am not that advanced yet. Initially, I didn't use any covers, then I tried the donuts with some, recently I found the VE EX pack and started playing around with the full foams.
> 
> So far, I have shredded about 50% of all covers when pulling them over. It reminds me of trying to make my first bubbles with chewing gum or my first rollies with Dutch halfzware tobacco (as a teenager).
> 
> I hope practice will make perfect.



You have to take your time... it takes me 10 to 20 minutes to do a pair.. but I don't ruin any.


----------



## groucho69

HungryPanda said:


> I agree David the K's K600 were the first earbuds that made feel I had full sized headphones on



+1


----------



## waynes world

groucho69 said:


> +1



No they're not.

Oh, aren't we arguing anymore?


----------



## DynamicEars

TheoS53 said:


> I like the idea of the donut foams and for some earbuds they really make a pleasant difference to tweaking/refining the signature...but I hate how impractical they are. At first when they're still a bit tight it's fine, but as they become stretched it's so heard to keep them centred on the bud, especially as they tend to move when placing the buds in my ears.



i got this problem everytime, until i found a solution, put a rubber ring on the buds first, then wrap it with donut foam. Full foam adding bass but sounds bloated, not nice clean bass for me


----------



## Otto Motor

NymPHONOmaniac said:


> At the begining, it was first impressions, I was thinking it was the cable and yeah, it was less problematic, just one side and now that I test with all my cable I conclude its worst and not possible to repair. Hum, yeah replacement....I understandits first batch and might be solve in next one. They sound fabulous (not metallic at all LOL and i enjoy Bach cello sonata with it ALOT)


As said, Smabat blamed the included cable...and they claim the issue has been fixed. In the meantime, I followed my co-bloggers' idea of "Audio P*rn for the Masses" and rush poor Jim for help...you find some detailed Smabat photography at the usual location.


----------



## ClieOS

Posted this before but anyone with mmcx issue on ST-10 can contact Smabat directly for an exchange: lh@smabat.com


----------



## groucho69

waynes world said:


> No they're not.
> 
> Oh, aren't we arguing anymore?



Sorry your 5 minutes is up.


----------



## mbwilson111

groucho69 said:


> Sorry your 5 minutes is up.



Ok I am going to have to scroll back and watch that skit...


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> Ok I am going to have to scroll back and watch that skit...



One of the most famous Python sketches.


----------



## DBaldock9

@HungryPanda - For the high impedance (400Ω - 600Ω) earbuds that you've assembled, which types of shells did you use?


----------



## mbwilson111

@DBaldock9   these are them...400 on top,  600 on bottom... Monk type shells on both.


----------



## Otto Motor

mbwilson111 said:


> @DBaldock9   these are them...400 on top,  600 on bottom... Monk type shells on both.


Could I please get some ohmology lessons? Beyerdynamic sell some cans with different impedance. As a rule of thumb, the higher the impedance, the better the sound. But why?



Spoiler: Touch me!



*TOUCH ME!*


----------



## mbwilson111

Otto Motor said:


> Could I please get some ohmology lessons? Beyerdynamic sell some cans with different impedance. As a rule of thumb, the higher the impedance, the better the sound. But why?



All I know is that they need more power... not for use out of a phone, tablet, pc soundcard or weak dap.   You need a DAP with decent power,  a nice desktop dac/amp or a portable amp coupled with the phone etc.

I will say that the 600 sounds like a full headphone.  I  have not had much time with the 400 (the HungryPanda Goblin).     Too many too quickly for me to keep up...


----------



## Otto Motor

Got it: high impedance earphones offer high signal to noise ratio.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 27, 2019)

Otto Motor said:


> Could I please get some ohmology lessons? Beyerdynamic sell some cans with different impedance. As a rule of thumb, the higher the impedance, the better the sound. But why?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There's plenty of great sounding low impedance earbuds too, i think the driver design and matieral is more important.

From purely subjective experience I think higher impedance seem to be more neutral in general, but many of the better bass responses are seen on low impedance buds. Maybe it's coincidence?

If you own dedicated amps or powerful daps its nice to have the larger range of volume offered by high impedance buds without blowing your head off


----------



## mbwilson111

Otto Motor said:


> Got it: high impedance earphones offer high signal to noise ratio.



I don't know, someone else needs to jump in... I did read that there is less distortion.


----------



## GREQ

Otto Motor said:


> Could I please get some ohmology lessons? Beyerdynamic sell some cans with different impedance. As a rule of thumb, the higher the impedance, the better the sound. But why?


The primary function of a high impedance driver is increase the damping factor.
(If you like the science - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damping_factor)

*TLDR *-_ "the value of the damping factor between a particular loudspeaker and a particular amplifier describes the ability of the amplifier to control undesirable movement of the speaker cone near the resonant frequency of the speaker system"_
So basically the higher the resistance, the higher the damping factor, which in turn increases diaphragm control, which reduces unwanted resonances and vibrations.


----------



## mbwilson111

GREQ said:


> The primary function of a high impedance driver is increase the damping factor.
> (If you like the science - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damping_factor)
> 
> *TLDR *-_ "the value of the damping factor between a particular loudspeaker and a particular amplifier describes the ability of the amplifier to control undesirable movement of the speaker cone near the resonant frequency of the speaker system"_
> So basically the higher the resistance, the higher the damping factor, which in turn increases diaphragm control, which reduces unwanted resonances and vibrations.



If a person's gear is not up to driving them, they will not get any benefit from the high impedance bud or headphone.  It won't sound its best.  It is not just a matter of volume.


----------



## DBaldock9 (Apr 27, 2019)

GREQ said:


> The primary function of a high impedance driver is increase the damping factor.
> (If you like the science - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damping_factor)
> 
> *TLDR *-_ "the value of the damping factor between a particular loudspeaker and a particular amplifier describes the ability of the amplifier to control undesirable movement of the speaker cone near the resonant frequency of the speaker system"_
> So basically the higher the resistance, the higher the damping factor, which in turn increases diaphragm control, which reduces unwanted resonances and vibrations.



I did read the article, and the "*Effect of cable resistance*" section does say:
"_... The higher the resistance of the speaker cables, the lower the damping factor. ..._"

But, I didn't see anything in the "*Effect of voice coil resistance*" section, which indicated whether a high or low impedance driver should be chosen.

However, in this article [ https://www.headphonesty.com/2019/04/headphone-impedance-demystified/ ], there's a quote, from Gunter Weidemann (Beyerdynamic’s Senior Product Manager):
"_The thinner wires have more windings (layers of wire) on the voice-coil than the lower-impedance Beyerdynamic headphones, which have thicker and heavier, easier-to-manufacture voice coils. The lower moving mass of the 250- and 600-ohm headphones’ voice coils is lighter than the 32-ohm models, and the lower mass is part of the reason high-impedance headphones sound better. The smaller diameter of the 600-ohm voice coil wires allows the wires to fit tighter, so there’s less air between the windings, and that makes the electromagnetic field of the voice coil stronger. All of that reduces distortion for the high-impedance versions compared with the low-impedance headphones._"


----------



## GREQ

DBaldock9 said:


> I did read the article, and the "*Effect of cable resistance*" section does say:
> "_... The higher the resistance of the speaker cables, the lower the damping factor. ..._"
> 
> But, I didn't see anything in the "*Effect of voice coil resistance*" section, which indicated whether a high or low impedance driver should be chosen.
> ...



Seems like an incomplete wiki article there.
Nice quote from Beyerdynamic. The last part is very important as higher damping factor should result in lower distortion. 
I could be wrong, but I think that's the missing information we're looking for.

Sorry if this is going way off topic, I find this topic very interesting and also want to learn more about it.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 27, 2019)

Is there a certain point where the impedance increase has no effect on control?

For instance, is there a sweet spot? 300 ohm seems to be popular with sennheiser. But beyer has 600ohm models.

I guess many earbuds stick to 16-32ohm and IEMs 8-32ohms because the size makes it more difficult to wind these coils and because easier to drive gear is preferable for portable designs.

But then you see high end iem's thats 8ohm, or headphones like focal utopia at a modest 80ohm. So you have to wonder how much of an advantage is it really? As these kinds of gear uses the absolute highest grade of R+D yet they still choose not to go above 100ohm, they must be confident in their drivers having great control by other means?

Maybe you can produce high quality low ohm drivers/coils that's have good control, it just may be more expensive? It's definitely intriguing to read about, I'd need to learn more.


----------



## DBaldock9 (Apr 27, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> Is there a certain point where the impedance increase has no effect on control?
> 
> For instance, is there a sweet spot? 300 ohm seems to be popular with sennheiser. But beyer has 600ohm models.
> 
> ...



Well, it's current flowing "in" a magnetic field, which creates the force that controls the driver movement. If you have a high impedance, you need a higher amplifier voltage output, to get the same current flow, as a portable (low voltage) amplifier can deliver to a low impedance load.

Or, you can increase the magnetic field - meaning, build a more efficient driver, so it doesn't need as much power.


----------



## waynes world

GREQ said:


> Seems like an incomplete wiki article there.
> Nice quote from Beyerdynamic. The last part is very important as higher damping factor should result in lower distortion.
> I could be wrong, but I think that's the missing information we're looking for.
> 
> Sorry if this is going way off topic, I find this topic very interesting and also want to learn more about it.



I find it all very complicated. Hurts my brain. Not nearly as much fun as arguing!


----------



## purplesun

Are there any published impedance vs frequency graphs available for some of the earbud drivers?
I have always wondered if the china manufacturers' impedance claims are open-ended measurements; having read that some of the drivers doesn't require much amplifications.


----------



## MisterMudd

Just a side quip as I read in this thread a lot of people are tearing their foam ear bud covers trying to put them on.  I have found that if I pre-stretch them they go on a whole lot easier. I can put a pair on earbuds in under 30 seconds. Just give them a little stretching workout before attempting. Just a thought....


----------



## TheoS53

seanc6441 said:


> There's plenty of great sounding low impedance earbuds too, i think the driver design and matieral is more important.
> 
> From purely subjective experience I think higher impedance seem to be more neutral in general, but many of the better bass responses are seen on low impedance buds. Maybe it's coincidence?
> 
> If you own dedicated amps or powerful daps its nice to have the larger range of volume offered by high impedance buds without blowing your head off





purplesun said:


> Are there any published impedance vs frequency graphs available for some of the earbud drivers?
> I have always wondered if the china manufacturers' impedance claims are open-ended measurements; having read that some of the drivers doesn't require much amplifications.




There's absolutely no link between sound quality and driver impedance. If that were true, then surely the highest impedance headphone ever created would have the best sound quality ever measured, right? True, we do tend to see many high-end headphones using high impedance drivers, but that may just be as a side-effect to the design. It's always important tot remember that correlation is not the same thing as causation. 

Regarding low impedance buds producing "better" bass, this is easily understood when we consider what it is that a driver is doing. All an audio file is is a set of instructions for a power amplifier as to how much power it should be outputting and when.
If we pull any track into an application such as Audacity, we will see somewhat of a waveform for each channel. 
 
Those lines help us visualise the power that's being sent to the driver, and ultimately what the driver should be doing. All a driver does is move in and out (or forwards and backwards) as that's what causes air to move at particular frequencies, and then we perceive that as sound. When the line moves up the driver should be moving outwards, and when the line starts going down, that's the driver moving backwards. 
So, the harder it is to move the driver, the harder the amplifier has to work to move the driver all the way out. As you may have noticed, easier to drive earphones can often produce better bass because the amplifier can easily deliver the power required to move the driver at the correct pace and to the correct extent. As it becomes harder to drive, the amp will start to struggle to keep up, and that's when we might hear some kind of distortion or just a lack in bass power. 


Regarding the graphs for impedance and frequency, I don't have any for earbuds, but here are 3 measurements I've taken of the new Focal Stellia. 
The yellow is with the amp at 0-ohms output impedance, green is at 10, and blue is at 120. 
Not all drivers undergo a change in frequency response as the output impedance of an amp is increased, but many do. I suspect that this is why many people claim that headphones such as the HD600, 650, etc sound better on tube amplifiers because tube-based systems tend to have higher output-impedances. So the "improvements" they hear is most likely due to how that output impedance affects the frequency response of the driver, rather than the fact that it's a tube-based system.


----------



## purplesun

TheoS53 said:


> Regarding the graphs for impedance and frequency, I don't have any for earbuds, but here are 3 measurements I've taken of the new Focal Stellia.
> The yellow is with the amp at 0-ohms output impedance, green is at 10, and blue is at 120.
> Not all drivers undergo a change in frequency response as the output impedance of an amp is increased, but many do. I suspect that this is why many people claim that headphones such as the HD600, 650, etc sound better on tube amplifiers because tube-based systems tend to have higher output-impedances. So the "improvements" they hear is most likely due to how that output impedance affects the frequency response of the driver, rather than the fact that it's a tube-based system.



Thanks for the graph. Looks like quite well-behaved impedances for your measurements. With tinier winding loops on earbuds, it will probably be bumpier graphs.


----------



## Willber

MisterMudd said:


> Just a side quip as I read in this thread a lot of people are tearing their foam ear bud covers trying to put them on.  I have found that if I pre-stretch them they go on a whole lot easier. I can put a pair on earbuds in under 30 seconds. Just give them a little stretching workout before attempting. Just a thought....


Same here.
Also, it is sometimes easier to fit donuts by putting them all the way over and then securing them by pulling them towards the front.


----------



## jibberish

Also for fitting donuts, I've found it's best to pull them onto my smallest buds (a pk shell) first, which is very easy to do, which stretches them out into the proper shape.  After that it's typically pretty easy to fit them on larger shell buds.  I did this and had donuts on my EBX buds within a couple of minutes.


----------



## ClieOS

purplesun said:


> Thanks for the graph. Looks like quite well-behaved impedances for your measurements. With tinier winding loops on earbuds, it will probably be bumpier graphs.



Here are a few: http://www.inearmatters.net/p/measurement.html


----------



## purplesun (Apr 27, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> Here are a few: http://www.inearmatters.net/p/measurement.html


Thanks. Nice set of measurements. Didn't know rose mojito was low impedance.

EDIT: @All. IMHO, impedances only matters to me when I want to use a low-power player. If there's enough power & current-delivery in the player, I usually don't care about what I plug into it. There are many opinions about the subject, so live and let live. Peace!


----------



## waynes world (Apr 27, 2019)

I don't trust HungryPanda, or myself. Can someone else please buy these ridiculously inexpensive buds and let me know exactly how crazy we are for liking $2.99 earbuds? I mean, I haven't done any ab'ing or anything, but I do know that I simply enjoy listening to them.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RY4C-original-in-ear-Earphone-15mm-music-quality-sound-HIFI-Earphone-MX500-style-earphone-3-5mm/32976726281.html





Edit: so I did just find this:


caracal said:


> Got my Ry4c today. Didn't like em tbh.
> These earbuds have significantly more highs and slightly lack bass compared to Ry4s (audigy 4 pro is the source)
> Nothing like vidos.
> 
> The shell feels cheaper and less comfortable than mx500, lighter and thinner. I'd better buy another Ry4s for that value



I have the RY4S UE's, so I guess I should compare with them. But without doing so, I'm not sure that I am hearing significantly more highs (it would probably irritate me if I did), and the bass seems nice to me. Regardless, that's interesting input, and my 5 minutes is up, so I'm not going to argue with you further about it lol


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Can someone else please buy these ridiculously inexpensive buds and let me know exactly how crazy we are for liking $2.99 earbuds?



I have the RY4C and I agree with you and HP...very enjoyable.


----------



## waynes world

TheoS53 said:


> There's absolutely no link between sound quality and driver impedance. If that were true, then surely the highest impedance headphone ever created would have the best sound quality ever measured, right? True, we do tend to see many high-end headphones using high impedance drivers, but that may just be as a side-effect to the design. It's always important tot remember that correlation is not the same thing as causation.
> 
> Regarding low impedance buds producing "better" bass, this is easily understood when we consider what it is that a driver is doing. All an audio file is is a set of instructions for a power amplifier as to how much power it should be outputting and when.
> If we pull any track into an application such as Audacity, we will see somewhat of a waveform for each channel.
> ...



That was helpful - thanks!


----------



## fairx

I have ry4c and broke it in attempt to open the shell. I have to say I don't really dig the sound. Too dull in mids high. I like my music to be snappy even if the bud is dark. 5-6khz(?) is important to me. But maybe I just got a lemon?


----------



## GREQ

TheoS53 said:


> There's absolutely no link between sound quality and driver impedance. If that were true, then surely the highest impedance headphone ever created would have the best sound quality ever measured, right?


Precisely.
Don't forget about diaphragm diameter, material, thickness, moulded shape, dome size and depth, ridges, driver coating or doping, magnet size, magnet strength, voice-coil weight, voice coil material, driver enclosure material and weight, rear vent count, rear vent size, damping material type, damping thickness and the interaction between all of those and the enclosure, ear pad or foam and an infinite variation on human ear dimensions. There's too many variables to make any absolute statements about audio, or what is best, because 'best' is not absolute and changes for the individual. Ears are the one body part that never stops growing, and hearing will fail over the years. Two more ever changing variables.

Just enjoy the different flavours.


----------



## mbwilson111

fairx said:


> I have ry4c and broke it in attempt to open the shell. I have to say I don't really dig the sound. Too dull in mids high. I like my music to be snappy even if the bud is dark. 5-6khz(?) is important to me. But maybe I just got a lemon?



...or maybe the shell just doesn't fit you well. Or you just like others more.  We don't have to all like the same things.  I mostly like everything 



GREQ said:


> Just enjoy the different flavours.



That is my philosophy.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 28, 2019)

Did some extended listening on my zen 2.0 for an hour yesterday and the day be at low-moderate volume...

I'm happy to say I feel fine! No more weird full ear feeling or painful hypersensitivity and the tinnitus is just forgetton background noise most days. Only a couple of testing days but for the most part I'm ok. So happy to be able to listen to music on earbuds again, such a relief. Just thought I'd share that haha.

Unfortunately that means you'll be seeing me around here more often. Sorry @waynes world


----------



## groucho69

waynes world said:


> I find it all very complicated. Hurts my brain. Not nearly as much fun as arguing!



No it isn't.


----------



## JackFlash

I recently purchased the DIY EMX500 that comes in the PK shells. It's unclear to me how these could be the same drivers as those included in the standard MX500 shell (which doesn't fit me well). I really enjoy the pair that I received, particularly with music that features an acoustic guitar and soft vocals. Does anyone have insight if this is really the MX500 or something similar? Would love to find an earbud in the PK shell that is a cross between the EMX500 and the Yincrow RW9, which don't fit me great and are a little too punchy (e.g., vocals get overpowered a bit).


----------



## seanc6441

JackFlash said:


> I recently purchased the DIY EMX500 that comes in the PK shells. It's unclear to me how these could be the same drivers as those included in the standard MX500 shell (which doesn't fit me well). I really enjoy the pair that I received, particularly with music that features an acoustic guitar and soft vocals. Does anyone have insight if this is really the MX500 or something similar? Would love to find an earbud in the PK shell that is a cross between the EMX500 and the Yincrow RW9, which don't fit me great and are a little too punchy (e.g., vocals get overpowered a bit).


Not the same driver, it's oddly named the same. Nice to hear that it's good though.


----------



## JackFlash

Thanks! What I suspected. Now to find out what they really are


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Unfortunately that means you'll be seeing me around here more often. Sorry @waynes world



Awesome! Glad we'll see you around more. Let me know when you have paid your for your next five minutes, and then we can begin lol


----------



## HungryPanda

Glad to see you're on the mend Sean


----------



## j4100

Yeah, good to hear things are back to normal for you Sean. For people passionate about music, hearing problems is a big worry.


----------



## silverfishla

seanc6441 said:


> Did some extended listening on my zen 2.0 for an hour yesterday and the day be at low-moderate volume...
> 
> I'm happy to say I feel fine! No more weird full ear feeling or painful hypersensitivity and the tinnitus is just forgetton background noise most days. Only a couple of testing days but for the most part I'm ok. So happy to be able to listen to music on earbuds again, such a relief. Just thought I'd share that haha.
> 
> Unfortunately that means you'll be seeing me around here more often. Sorry @waynes world


Glad you are feeling better.  I now know how it is to go through hearing difficulties as I just got through a sinus infection that plugged my ears up for about three weeks (like being underwater).  Really irritating and kind of painful.  First time ever I had my hearing affected by a bad cold.  Ears filled with liquid that couldn’t release.  Just take it easy with the volume, my ears are sensitive too.  Don’t do any damage.


----------



## DBaldock9

On Saturday evening, I assembled a set of 400Ω Graphene earbuds -
.

 
.
.
I used these 15.4mm drivers - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/15-...ance-unit-speaker-1pair-2pcs/32851048067.html
In these wooden shells - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/15-...sn-t-contain-the-front-cover/32956277065.html
And modified these 2.5mm TRRS Silver Plated Copper cables (removed the 2-pin connectors, and the ear-hook heat shrink) - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TRN...-Plated-Silver-Cable-For-TRN/32915015641.html


----------



## Themilkman46290

DBaldock9 said:


> On Saturday evening, I assembled a set of 400Ω Graphene earbuds -
> .
> 
> .
> ...


How are they? How do you rate them? I been thinking of ordering some drivers also.


----------



## jibberish

DBaldock9 said:


> On Saturday evening, I assembled a set of 400Ω Graphene earbuds -
> .
> 
> .
> ...


Nice work, they look great


----------



## DBaldock9

Themilkman46290 said:


> How are they? How do you rate them? I been thinking of ordering some drivers also.



I think they sound pretty good.
Using the test tracks at the Audiocheck.net link in my signature - these earbuds have response down to 20Hz (but the level is reduced, compared to 30Hz and above). The Midrange & Treble are clear and detailed.
It's possible that in a larger shell (like the MX500), these driver would have a bit more low Bass.
.
I'm currently enjoying a classic musicals playlist on YouTube -
.





jibberish said:


> Nice work, they look great



Thanks, these shells are quite comfortable in my ears, and the cable is soft & not microphonic.


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> On Saturday evening, I assembled a set of 400Ω Graphene earbuds -
> .
> 
> .
> ...



That's awesome - Dbaldock9 Specials. Nice work!


----------



## subwoof3r

Nice to see you back active on this thread @seanc6441
Let me refresh the news for you since.... you just need a Smabat ST-10 !


----------



## assassin10000

Speaking of the ST-10...

I was curious about what frequencies are the most emphasized by the ST-10 bass port. I went on youtube and used a frequency sweep test while covering/uncovering the port to try and figure it out. To my ears it sounds like it affects 30-75hz the most. It does have an effect higher up the bass range (75-250hz) but not as large of one and decreasing as you climb in frequency.


----------



## Dabbaranks (Apr 29, 2019)

So 2 months later these willsound buds actually arrived today. Looks like customs opened my package and that’s why it took so long, probably thought I was ordering some beef rendang 



Pk32 and mk1 with a 3.5mm mmcx VJC cable


----------



## seanc6441

subwoof3r said:


> Nice to see you back active on this thread @seanc6441
> Let me refresh the news for you since.... you just need a Smabat ST-10 !


Oh don't worry I've been catching up on a lot of posts, most of them thanks to this hyped earbud


----------



## HungryPanda (Apr 29, 2019)

Well I have just had an evening of comparing Svara-L and Smabat ST-10. First conclusion is if you already have Svara-L you do not need the Smabat ST-10. The Smabat is an improved Svara-L, just sounds a bit smoother, less lively. As a Svara-L lover I would not want the Smabat. But if I didn't already possess the Svara-L  the Smabat would be a nice purchase though.


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> As a Svara-L lover I would not want the Smabat but if I didn't already possess the Svara-L the Smabat would be a nice purchase though.



Then it is a good thing you don't possess it.  It is all MINE!


----------



## chinmie

HungryPanda said:


> Well I have just had an evening of comparing Svara-L and Smabat ST-10. First conclusion is if you already have Svara-L you do not need the Smabat ST-10. The Smabat is an improved Svara-L, just sounds a bit smoother, less lively. As a Svara-L lover I would not want the Smabat but if I didn't already possess the Svara-L  the Smabat would be a nice purchase though.



check. (relieved and closes wallet)


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> check. (relieved and closes wallet)





The way I am reading that is if you have neither and can fit it in your budget, pick the Smabat.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

HungryPanda said:


> Well I have just had an evening of comparing Svara-L and Smabat ST-10. First conclusion is if you already have Svara-L you do not need the Smabat ST-10. The Smabat is an improved Svara-L, just sounds a bit smoother, less lively. As a Svara-L lover I would not want the Smabat. But if I didn't already possess the Svara-L  the Smabat would be a nice purchase though.


I'm so happy to hear this. I already have svara-l. In the anniversary sale, I chose the k600 instead of the smabat.


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> The way I am reading that is if you have neither and can fit it in your budget, pick the Smabat.



yup, luckily i have the svara L, although this couple of pages talking about the smabat really tempted me to break my "stop buying earbuds, man, you had enough!" promise i made to myself 

seeing it as a refinement of the Svara, I'm certain the Smabat is a good sounding earbud.
but i bet it doesn't have the "bass bloom" of the Svara L that makes it special sounding for me 

(this is just some rough rationalization i made to stop me from buying another earbud


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> i bet it doesn't have the "bass bloom" of the Svara L that makes it special sounding for me



I think you are correct.


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> Well I have just had an evening of comparing Svara-L and Smabat ST-10. First conclusion is if you already have Svara-L you do not need the Smabat ST-10. The Smabat is an improved Svara-L, just sounds a bit smoother, less lively. As a Svara-L lover I would not want the Smabat. But if I didn't already possess the Svara-L  the Smabat would be a nice purchase though.











chinmie said:


> check. (relieved and closes wallet)



Amen!


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> yup, luckily i have the svara L, although this couple of pages talking about the smabat really tempted me to break my "stop buying earbuds, man, you had enough!" promise i made to myself
> 
> seeing it as a refinement of the Svara, I'm certain the Smabat is a good sounding earbud.
> but i bet it doesn't have the "bass bloom" of the Svara L that makes it special sounding for me
> ...



Sorry to step on your rationalization, but you don't have the 32ohm version of the Svara L, do you? I think that's the version that HungryPanda is comparing the Smabat to. 

So maybe you _do _need the Smabat???


----------



## assassin10000

HungryPanda said:


> Well I have just had an evening of comparing Svara-L and Smabat ST-10. First conclusion is if you already have Svara-L you do not need the Smabat ST-10. The Smabat is an improved Svara-L, just sounds a bit smoother, less lively. As a Svara-L lover I would not want the Smabat. But if I didn't already possess the Svara-L  the Smabat would be a nice purchase though.



Smoother across all frequencies or is it focused somewhere (IE: bass/mids/treble)? Is it uneven in some manner or maybe just more grainy? 




waynes world said:


> Sorry to step on your rationalization, but you don't have the 32ohm version of the Svara L, do you? I think that's the version that HungryPanda is comparing the Smabat to.
> 
> So maybe you _do _need the Smabat???



Hahaha. Instigator. 


... did you order *your* pair yet?




Anyways, the bass on the ST-10 is interesting. Perhaps IEM like? I'm not sure how to describe it. I'm guessing the Svara's are similar.


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Sorry to step on your rationalization, but you don't have the 32ohm version of the Svara L, do you? I think that's the version that HungryPanda is comparing the Smabat to.
> 
> So maybe you _do _need the Smabat???



i most definitely don't need it....




want it? heck yea


----------



## ClieOS

It is not what we need that defines us as Head-fier.


----------



## subwoof3r

I'm surprised to see that the Svara-L has better bass than ST-10. I'm not aware but does the Svara-L integrate a Transmission Line system in its shells too?
I feel like there is a massive boost of bass at around 50Hz on my ST-10 (which I like), feeling like a big subwoofer (plz no joke on my nickname, lol). Extremely deep rumble for an earbud, I'm still much amazed!
Also, I don't feel any kind of mid-bass bump (unlike we can easily recognize on Willsound MK2).


----------



## chinmie

subwoof3r said:


> I'm surprised to see that the Svara-L has better bass than ST-10. I'm not aware but does the Svara-L integrate a Transmission Line system in its shells too?
> I feel like there is a massive boost of bass at around 50Hz on my ST-10 (which I like), feeling like a big subwoofer (plz no joke on my nickname, lol). Extremely deep rumble for an earbud, I'm still much amazed!
> Also, I don't feel any kind of mid-bass bump (unlike we can easily recognize on Willsound MK2).



better might not be the right term. mind you i haven't heard the Smabat  so i could only comment on the Svara L (115ohm version) 

i suspect the Smabat has a more refined bass than the Svara L(others who have both could give better impressions on this. Svara L, well at least my old version, has a loose and bloomy warm bass. technically it might be called sloppy, but it is really addictive, and i like it very much


----------



## ClieOS

subwoof3r said:


> ...I'm not aware but does the Svara-L integrate a Transmission Line system in its shells too?



Only in Svara Pro and ST-10.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

So, its be confirm that there were problem with SMABAT ST-10 with the very first batch and now everything is solved and none of the more than 300 buyers have issue.

Thats a relief cause these are great earbuds.

Now I wait for my replacement pair.

Until then I learn to enjoy the BK2, wich aren't bad at all....perhaps its burn in. Only the mmxc cable that do not clip make me worry about durability.


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> better might not be the right term. mind you i haven't heard the Smabat  so i could only comment on the Svara L (115ohm version)
> 
> i suspect the Smabat has a more refined bass than the Svara L(others who have both could give better impressions on this. S*vara L, well at least my old version, has a loose and bloomy warm bass. technically it might be called sloppy,* but it is really addictive, and i like it very much



It's the bolded part of your comment that gives me the strong impression that the 115ohm is a very different beast than the 32ohm version - the 32ohm version's bass goes deep, but is very well controlled imo.


----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> It's the bolded part of your comment that gives me the strong impression that the 115ohm is a very different beast than the 32ohm version - the 32ohm version's bass goes deep, but is very well controlled imo.



That's why the 32-Ohm Svara was my favorite MMCX earbud (until I got the Smabat), while the 115-Ohm Svara was lower on my list. The EBX has clear low Bass, but they don't fit as well in my ears, as the Svara shell.

The Smabat is a nice evolution of Svara sound, and they fit my ears.


----------



## activatorfly

DBaldock9 said:


> That's why the 32-Ohm Svara was my favorite MMCX earbud (until I got the Smabat), while the 115-Ohm Svara was lower on my list. The EBX has clear low Bass, but they don't fit as well in my ears, as the Svara shell.
> 
> The Smabat is a nice evolution of Svara sound, and they fit my ears.


Not having any of the above in my collection....I'm really looking forward to delivery of the ST-10


----------



## cathee

After cementing my On-Ear Rushmore, I'm back in the Earbuds' game!

I've been catch-n-releasing what felt like endless TOTL earbuds (Blur, Zoomfred, Mojito, Red Dragon, yada yada); I settled on the measley *Snow Lotus 1.0 2.5mm* and found them to be perfect for my need/usage. Plus I had some complaints about the business of "ultra expensive" TOTL earbuds so I stepped back a bit. But now with the release of so many great options in the mid-tier <$100 range, I just couldn't resist. 

So a few days ago, I had an opportunity to sample of sakes for work, one thing lead to another and in lieu of any promiscuous behavior with co-workers, I got a little trigger happy on AliExpress and picked up: 

ToneKing MusicMaker
ToneKing 400Ohm
ToneKing 600Ohm
**** PT25
SMABAT ST-10
I'm loving how detachable cables have trickled down to the more reasonable priced earbuds (goes to show how looooong I've been out the game) which I had always thought should be a must with anything over a certain price point. 

Any other recs or must-trys?

Also, does anyone (anywhere on the interwebs) have a reliable methodology to measure earbuds yet? I feel like the variance in people's ear cavity fit is so great that any measurements would be super unreliable...


----------



## DBaldock9

cathee said:


> After cementing my On-Ear Rushmore, I'm back in the Earbuds' game!
> 
> I've been catch-n-releasing what felt like endless TOTL earbuds (Blur, Zoomfred, Mojito, Red Dragon, yada yada); I settled on the measley *Snow Lotus 1.0 2.5mm* and found them to be perfect for my need/usage. Plus I had some complaints about the business of "ultra expensive" TOTL earbuds so I stepped back a bit. But now with the release of so many great options in the mid-tier <$100 range, I just couldn't resist.
> 
> ...



Just out of curiosity - Which Blur did you try - the MX500 style, or the PK style?

Another thing that makes me curious about the earbud test measurements, if they're using a jig to hold the earbud against the ear-shaped Mic assembly - is it pressed with the same force as just sticking them in your ear, and are any of the shell vents being obstructed?


----------



## areek

Hello. I got hands on my RW9 yesterday. Sound is crisp, musical but sometimes a bit thin. Are foams recommended?


----------



## cqtek

areek said:


> Hello. I got hands on my RW9 yesterday. Sound is crisp, musical but sometimes a bit thin. Are foams recommended?



Yes, but I change the settings sometimes: full foams or full foams with donuts. I really like the RW-9.


----------



## jogawag

areek said:


> Hello. I got hands on my RW9 yesterday. Sound is crisp, musical but sometimes a bit thin. Are foams recommended?


Use Donuts Foam if you want to thicken the mid-bass, use Full Foam if you want to thicken the overall sound, and use Full Foam + Donuts Foam if you want to thicken the mid-bass even more.
I like the last way.


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 1, 2019)

Today, only ten days after ordering a bunch of Indonesian buds from the latest Ebay listings.  a biggish box arrived!  A pink Kube V1 and a Sabia Rose for me,    a white Kube V1 and a black  Kube V2 for @HungryPanda , and an AIDEX DX-SII-10001 for each of us.  We have not opened the AIDEX boxes yet.  Apparently they are such old stock that the foams will crumble to dust when we touch them.  We will do it carefully later.





They were packaged very well.  Here are photos of the unboxing if anyone wants to look.



Spoiler: Unboxing photos.. click here


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> Today, only ten days after ordering a bunch of Indonesian buds from the latest Ebay listings.  a biggish box arrived!  A pink Kube V1 and a Sabia Rose for me,    a white Kube V1 and a black  Kube V2 for @HungryPanda , and an AIDEX DX-SII-10001 for each of us.  We have not opened the AIDEX boxes yet.  Apparently they are such old stock that the foams will crumble to dust when we touch them.  We will do it carefully later.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Awesome! Thanks for the pictorial 

I can't wait to find out what you think of the AIDEX's!


----------



## GREQ

Got some nice little packages earlier this week. Spent some time listening yesterday and did some measurements today.



Sabia V6 Pearl
Sabia V6 Rose
And some kind of no-name earbud... on amazon it was under the name MRLIFY, but had Vido in the title/description. Also sold on aliexpress under the name Marsnaska.

Original Black cable Sabia

Pearl/silver cable

Rose/pink copper cable

All variants on one graph - colour coded.
 

Tonally, the incremental differences between them are even less significant than the fit/position in my ears.
To my ears, the Rose sounded a touch smoother, and Pearl sounded more airy... but it could be psychoacoustic. 

These are OK for a couple of eurobucks.
 
Here's Vido for comparison in price bracket - (quite similar)


----------



## cathee

DBaldock9 said:


> Just out of curiosity - Which Blur did you try - the MX500 style, or the PK style?
> 
> Another thing that makes me curious about the earbud test measurements, if they're using a jig to hold the earbud against the ear-shaped Mic assembly - is it pressed with the same force as just sticking them in your ear, and are any of the shell vents being obstructed?



I can't remember the model name now but it's one of those with two/three (?) Chinese characters and had a translucent MX500-style casing. (My ears never took a liking to the PK style cases... by any manufacturer).

RE: measurements - I completely agree. There's a reason proper scientific reports include a detailed assessment of methodology. I'm a sucker for graphs and find them to be generally helpful in comparing headphones/IEMS but with earbuds the individual fit and positioning is so important. *I'd be very curious to hear any first hand info on the method/technique of measuring earbuds!*


----------



## fairx (May 1, 2019)

finally after some practice and steady hands. Made this for my friend who like a little fullness without sacrificing much details.

Using coins with same size as base and hot soldering gun. This is for RW-9 

Edit*

After some listening I have a feeling I might get used to this as well. I even add small hole for the back port 





areek said:


> Hello. I got hands on my RW9 yesterday. Sound is crisp, musical but sometimes a bit thin. Are foams recommended?


----------



## BadReligionPunk (May 1, 2019)

GREQ said:


> Got some nice little packages earlier this week. Spent some time listening yesterday and did some measurements today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 Im hearing pretty much your  "V6 with Black cable" out of my VUNBUD or very close to it. Nice to see an approximation  of what I have been hearing. Makes sense now.

Seems like cables make a bit of difference. I should maybe experiment with different cables on it. Just always used the VJC cable that came with it.


----------



## mbwilson111

Marcos Fontana said:


> Wow!!! Amazing, I got the last AIDEX DX-SII-10001 too. Thank you! I got the Dunus 'cause I really like my dk-3001. I don't know how the Dunu earbuds sounds, but Dunu is a good brand.



There was a warning on the sellers page that because the AIDEX is so old the foam would turn to dust as soon as we touch it.  So, we were very careful removing them from the packaging and even more careful when removing the preinstalled foams.  We did not want foam dust to go into the drivers.   Here it the result... the first photo is of  my husbands foams and the second one is mine.   This should be a warning to anyone who thinks they will stock up on a lifetime supply of foams... lol.


----------



## DBaldock9

cathee said:


> I can't remember the model name now but it's one of those with two/three (?) Chinese characters and had a translucent MX500-style casing. (My ears never took a liking to the PK style cases... by any manufacturer).
> 
> RE: measurements - I completely agree. There's a reason proper scientific reports include a detailed assessment of methodology. I'm a sucker for graphs and find them to be generally helpful in comparing headphones/IEMS but with earbuds the individual fit and positioning is so important. *I'd be very curious to hear any first hand info on the method/technique of measuring earbuds!*



The Blur with Chinese characters were Wong's first series, and while the 300Ω model has very good quality of Bass, Midrange & Treble, the K's K500 has more quantity of Bass.
The later series, like the hALF/hALF (150Ω), has noticeably more Bass (which is also clear & detailed).


----------



## Marcos Fontana

mbwilson111 said:


> There was a warning on the sellers page that because the AIDEX is so old the foam would turn to dust as soon as we touch it.  So, we were very careful removing them from the packaging and even more careful when removing the preinstalled foams.  We did not want foam dust to go into the drivers.   Here it the result... the first photo is of  my husbands foams and the second one is mine.   This should be a warning to anyone who thinks they will stock up on a lifetime supply of foams... lol.


Thank you for the warning. Mine still in transit... Brazil...


----------



## rkw

mbwilson111 said:


> Today, only ten days after ordering a bunch of Indonesian buds from the latest Ebay listings.  a biggish box arrived!  A pink Kube V1 and a Sabia Rose for me,    a white Kube V1 and a black  Kube V2 for @HungryPanda , and an AIDEX DX-SII-10001 for each of us.


Such poetry on the box...

_SOUND OF BIRTH
SETTING UP
Please hear a pure sound that doesn't mix.
As for a surrounding sound,
the sound doesn't leak to minimum
outside though I hear.
_​​


----------



## mbwilson111

rkw said:


> Such poetry on the box...
> 
> _SOUND OF BIRTH
> SETTING UP
> ...



My husband read that poem to me earlier this evening

I finally had a chance to relax and listen to an album...last song ending now.  Beautiful.


----------



## blati (May 2, 2019)

I just bought TY Hi-Z HP650.

*is it better EBX *or can you recommend something?


How I upload picture on this?

Please let me know!!


----------



## mbwilson111

blati said:


> I just bought TY Hi-Z HP650.
> 
> *is it better EBX *or can you recommend something?
> 
> ...




Hi, welcome to the thread.   I am not sure but I think you have to have a certain number of regular posts before you can upload a file (which is how you upload a photo).  Do you have an option that says Upload a File right next to Post Reply?  If you do , you can try it but it might not work if you do have to wait.


----------



## DBaldock9

blati said:


> I just bought TY Hi-Z HP650.
> 
> *is it better EBX *or can you recommend something?
> 
> ...



The TY Hi-Z HP650 that I bought in 2017, has a lot of Bass, and pretty good Treble, but a fairly recessed Midrange.
I believe that either the Smabat ST-10 or NiceHCK EBX provide more detailed Bass, and a more balanced Midrange & Treble.


----------



## cqtek

Peace and love, brothers!

My last review is about the ISN Rambo, a sweet kitten:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/isn-audio-rambo.23669/reviews#review-22006


----------



## blati (May 2, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Hi, welcome to the thread.   I am not sure but I think you have to have a certain number of regular posts before you can upload a file (which is how you upload a photo).  Do you have an option that says Upload a File right next to Post Reply?  If you do , you can try it but it might not work if you do have to wait.



Thank you!!


----------



## blati

DBaldock9 said:


> The TY Hi-Z HP650 that I bought in 2017, has a lot of Bass, and pretty good Treble, but a fairly recessed Midrange.
> I believe that either the Smabat ST-10 or NiceHCK EBX provide more detailed Bass, and a more balanced Midrange & Treble.



Um...These days, in this thread,* are EBX and ST-10 famous(?) earbuds?*

I have had Simphonio dragons 2+, Pk1, Stardust, EBX...


----------



## DBaldock9

blati said:


> Um...These days, in this thread,* are EBX and ST-10 famous(?) earbuds?*
> 
> I have had Simphonio dragons 2+, Pk1, Stardust, EBX...



I've heard good things about the Dragon 2+, the PK1, and the Stardust.


----------



## blati

DBaldock9 said:


> I've heard good things about the Dragon 2+, the PK1, and the Stardust.



Yeah, I agree. Also, Dragon 2+ is the best earbud I ever heard.


----------



## fairx

Rw-9 + multi hole foam that I mod before quickly became popular among my friend because how iem like sound it became. I also like it very much it can go very low and have bass decay that my other earbud don't.

But somehow I miss the mids of others. Today after rotating my earbud ry4s still stands mid wise. 

How's smabat mids compare to ry4s?


----------



## assassin10000 (May 3, 2019)

blati said:


> Um...These days, in this thread,* are EBX and ST-10 famous(?) earbuds?*
> 
> I have had Simphonio dragons 2+, Pk1, Stardust, EBX...



ST-10 is just one of the latest (in the past 2 months) good ones to come out. EBX has been around for a bit longer.

@ClieOS ranks it as just below totl but above 2nd tier sq wise. Iirc. So I think the Simphonio d2+ is possibly better.


----------



## noknok23

blati said:


> Yeah, I agree. Also, Dragon 2+ is the best earbud I ever heard.


If you can, get the Dragon 3, seems to be D2+ with better bass (the only weak point of D2+ imo).


----------



## Marcos Fontana

noknok23 said:


> If you can, get the Dragon 3, seems to be D2+ with better bass (the only weak point of D2+ imo).


I saw that swd3 is above $500. Too much imho. I would prefer to spend $200 more and get a Red Dragon with a lcd3 signature and Henry support and warranty. Also, k600 is an amazing earbud. Should be in the totl list.


----------



## blati

noknok23 said:


> If you can, get the Dragon 3, seems to be D2+ with better bass (the only weak point of D2+ imo).



??? when we can buy Dragon 3+ ?

Do you know?


----------



## blati (May 3, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> ST-10 is just one of the latest (in the past 2 months) good ones to come out. EBX has been around for a bit longer.
> 
> @ClieOS ranks it as just below totl but above 2nd tier sq wise. Iirc. So I think the Simphonio d2+ is possibly better.




Okay. Now, I'm worry about Hp650 can't worth about price.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Okay, I love the BK2 finally. prefer them over EB2 big time. EB2 upper treble sound crazy out of phase.

BK2 is a no brainer at 25$. Less so at full 60$ price.

Well balanced and natural sounding, neither too warm or bright, instrument is top notch even if in a rather intimate soundstage.

Wonder if anyone here love them too....


----------



## mbwilson111

NymPHONOmaniac said:


> EB2 upper treble sound crazy out of phase.



My EB2 sounds great to me and is very comfortable.  Have you checked to make sure yours is not actually out of phase?


----------



## waynes world

NymPHONOmaniac said:


> Okay, I love the BK2 finally. prefer them over EB2 big time. EB2 upper treble sound crazy out of phase.
> 
> BK2 is a no brainer at 25$. Less so at full 60$ price.
> 
> ...



I never heard of them before. Right now they range from $26 to $60 (regular $75). They look nice, and have mmcx detachable silver plated cable, and provide "impeccable female vocal"! (not sure if that's relevant for me). They do seem very interesting for $26. I hope to see more impressions!


----------



## HungryPanda

+1 for the BK2


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

mbwilson111 said:


> My EB2 sounds great to me and is very comfortable.  Have you checked to make sure yours is not actually out of phase?


i dont know if my term ''out of phase'' is appropriate, i find the upper highs too fowards wich can became artificial sounding with extra brilliant percussion in jazz and stuffs. EB2 just don't do it for me perhaps. I find the bass very dry too....but who know, perhaps i got a slightly defective pair. how do we check if its factualy out of phase??
they remind me a little of the DP100, but less well balanced and with inferior imaging.
amping tend to open the sound a little more.


----------



## BrunoC

I found that the EB2 sounds better with a thin foam with a donut on top.
The bass is much better and the highs more smooth.
Just try it 

I think it's a great earbud and very confortable.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jul 2, 2019)

NymPHONOmaniac said:


> how do we check if its factualy out of phase??



I actually check that immediately with every new iem and bud... even the ones that my husband makes.  If it is out of phase the wires inside ONE of the shells have to be reversed and re-soldered.   Personally I use a certain binaural album that I have.  Amber Rubarth - Sessions from the 17th Ward.   First track is Hold On (a Tom Waits cover).  A couple of seconds in the cello should start way off to the left and then more strings to the right.. back and forth and then her voice come in in the center.  If it is out of phase that cello will sound like it is sitting  on your left shoulder.

You might have other tracks that you know well.  Otherwise there are sites for checking this... I don't have the link handy but someone will or you can search.  I know there is one that uses door knocks for the binaural test.


----------



## mbwilson111

BrunoC said:


> I found that the EB2 sounds better with a thin foam with a donut on top.
> The bass is much better and the highs more smooth.
> Just try it
> 
> I think it's a great earbud and very confortable.



I just use a regular foam with no donut.  My ear opening is probably slightly smaller than yours so for me, the donut makes it feel too big.  I get a good "seal" without it.


----------



## GREQ

NymPHONOmaniac said:


> how do we check if its factualy out of phase??


https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php
Scroll down to "Wiring" and follow the guide for "Centre" and "Twisted" sound samples.
Best to test with other quality/reliable headphones/buds first, so you know what to expect and listen out for.


----------



## HungryPanda

I scroll just a little further on that page and use the binaural test. If the knocks are on your shoulders they are mostly out of phase. If the knocks are out to your right and even further out to your left then you are good to go


----------



## noknok23

blati said:


> ??? when we can buy Dragon 3+ ?
> 
> Do you know?


I only saw it on taobao. Maybe you have other marketplaces in SK than aliexpress?


----------



## jibberish

Sabia Pearls are in the house as of today.  Listening to some early R.E.M. and Talking Heads with them, and they sound great.  I'm really impressed by the bass response, the mid bass is big and bold, but doesn't overshadow everything else.


----------



## blati

noknok23 said:


> I only saw it on taobao. Maybe you have other marketplaces in SK than aliexpress?



I only use Aliexpress. What is 'SK'?


----------



## GREQ

blati said:


> I only use Aliexpress. What is 'SK'?


SK = South Korea


----------



## waynes world (May 5, 2019)

nick n said:


> To clarify there, well basically expand upon the description, as I undertsand it the ANN maker for some reason does not sell, to anyone,  any of them in batches, only one at at time.
> Sort of one per person per order thing.
> This is what was meant here in his auction description.
> Apparently I was told this has always been the case at least more recently, so unknown if this can happen again ( I don't know anyhow how he managed to convince the manufacturer ).
> ...





GREQ said:


> One of these just landed on my desk at work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm very happy that I have a couple of ANN N200's (black and silver). I've been listening to them 99% of the time since I got them 6 weeks ago. Very satisfying for me. Thanks for getting them on my radar Nick! And thanks to jultoptau on ebay for making all of these cool Indonesian classics available 

Edit: great description of them GREQ - I even like your photo processing analogy!


----------



## mbwilson111

I have this coming.  I always wanted a bud with red on one side and blue on the other.   I saw it on ebay when I was ordering something else.  Seems that ebay knows what to tempt me with..


----------



## GREQ

waynes world said:


> Thanks for getting them on my radar Nick!


Aye, he's something of a headphone dowsing rod... much of my collection is his 'fault' 
Cheers nick n!


----------



## mbwilson111

GREQ said:


> Aye, he's something of a headphone dowsing rod... much of my collection is his 'fault'
> Cheers nick n!



I wonder what he might come up with next...


----------



## viatraco

NymPHONOmaniac said:


> Okay, I love the BK2 finally. prefer them over EB2 big time. EB2 upper treble sound crazy out of phase.
> 
> BK2 is a no brainer at 25$. Less so at full 60$ price.
> 
> ...



BK2...I don't like Compared in the same time with EB2, Monk+ and TO65 on Radsone ES100 and Smsl M2. 
BK2 was shouty and unpleasent. For me one of the most overpriced earbuds. Build quality is good but sound is bad for me. For 20$ that i payed is acceptable but for 75$ totally insane IMO


----------



## theoutsider

*Moondrop Liebeslied* replacement model, they haven't finalized the model name.


----------



## ClieOS

Planar Earbud One (aka PE-1) - a small slice of my DIY insanity.


----------



## fairx

ClieOS said:


> Planar Earbud One (aka PE-1) - a small slice of my DIY insanity.


Wow.. I found the driver on AE weeks ago and wonder if it's possible to slap this in earbud form factor. Seems you already tried it. I'm waiting for good news when it's gone final.


----------



## HungryPanda

Come home tonight to the Linsoul DTM PK1 and put a silver cable, 2.5mm balanced, on them and have to say I'm loving them. Listening to M.Craft - Blood Moon Deconstructed  and it sounds awesome.


----------



## seanc6441

theoutsider said:


> *Moondrop Liebeslied* replacement model, they haven't finalized the model name.


They went with a more boxy look on this one, interesting.


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> Come home tonight to the Linsoul DTM PK1 and put a silver cable, 2.5mm balanced, on them and have to say I'm loving them. Listening to M.Craft - Blood Moon Deconstructed  and it sounds awesome.




Very interesting (and cool tune!). They are a bit much cost-wise for me to do a spontaneous "buy now", but I'm gonna to keep my eyes on them!


----------



## theoutsider

seanc6441 said:


> They went with a more boxy look on this one, interesting.


I think the new Liebesleid replacement model looks like VX-J, the japanese version of VX pro. I like the brass-golden front cover.

I used to have a pair of VX pro, I wonder why they reverted to selling VX classic?


----------



## blati

mbwilson111 said:


> I have this coming.  I always wanted a bud with red on one side and blue on the other.   I saw it on ebay when I was ordering something else.  Seems that ebay knows what to tempt me with..



OMG! It is newly coming?


----------



## blati

theoutsider said:


> *Moondrop Liebeslied* replacement model, they haven't finalized the model name.



It seems like hammer... I like it! How much is it?


----------



## subwoof3r (May 6, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> @ClieOS ranks it as just below totl but above 2nd tier sq wise.


To me, it definitely sounds first tier SQ wise, and not second.
Smabat ST-10 is just my best earbuds ever listened (and I listened a LOT, as you guys can see in my equipments) 
Also, (to me) it is far away better than EBX.


----------



## theoutsider

blati said:


> It seems like hammer... I like it! How much is it?


I am not sure tbh. I am guessing it should have the same price tag as the original Liebesleid, that costs ~300 dollars.


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 6, 2019)

blati said:


> OMG! It is newly coming?



That red/blue one is the  TY Hi-Z AWK-F150TS (150 ohm) and I think it has been around for a year or more.  I have never seen anyone talk about it in here but maybe someone did.  I have no idea what it will sound like.  I just liked the look of it.  I think it will be here this week.  No mail today because of the May Bank Holiday here.

edit. I just searched this thread and found this model to first be mentioned here in Nov. 2017

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1655#post-13849293

The sales link in that post is dead.  Here is an active link on aliexpress

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TY-...y-Earbuds-Flat-Head-Earphone/32840089257.html

I bought mine from the same seller but used Ebay.


----------



## Otto Motor

I had a look at the interesting ISN Audio Rambo earbuds which excel by the pearliest treble I have heard. Really great for classical music...in fact addictive. You know where you find it now ...coming to Head-Fi soon, too.


----------



## Themilkman46290

mbwilson111 said:


> I have this coming.  I always wanted a bud with red on one side and blue on the other.   I saw it on ebay when I was ordering something else.  Seems that ebay knows what to tempt me with..





Well my wife has these, she loves them, really good bass, sub bass goes deep, and pretty good treble on them, really good buds, I think you will like them


----------



## viatraco

HungryPanda said:


> Come home tonight to the Linsoul DTM PK1 and put a silver cable, 2.5mm balanced, on them and have to say I'm loving them. Listening to M.Craft - Blood Moon Deconstructed  and it sounds awesome.


Do you think DTM PK1 driver is the same as in Linsoul BLD 150ohm ?


----------



## HungryPanda

No I do not think so. I believe this is a PK driver, the BLD 150 uses a 15mm driver to my knowledge


----------



## SaveTheMantaRays

Judging by the release dates and the reviews I found, this is old news, but cannot find anything on headfi, about these buds.

Simply called 360 earbuds.  Are they actual fantastic or a total gimmick?

Here are some links? to see what these are
https://deals.androidauthority.com/...-324730&utm_content=a0x1P000004HE7N&scsonar=1
https://techaeris.com/2017/10/06/360-earbuds-review-amazing-sound/
https://www.androidauthority.com/360-earphones-deal-982386/

Of course there is a big push to move these, right now at 52% off.

Maybe worth a try, if no one is familiar


----------



## seanc6441 (May 6, 2019)

SaveTheMantaRays said:


> Judging by the release dates and the reviews I found, this is old news, but cannot find anything on headfi, about these buds.
> 
> Simply called 360 earbuds.  Are they actual fantastic or a total gimmick?
> 
> ...


I'd bet my life savings on gimmick. Looks like a basic IEM, maybe it has some DSP if the connection is lightning or usb c but it's most likely just good ole analog 3.5mm jack.

Probably just your generic old budget iem and some paid off reviews. 

Nothing about it stands out as special, and the reviews are using a lot of bull terminology like 'premium bass' and mentioning '5.1 surround' without any facts to back up their claims.

I'd avoid if I was you but it's your money.


----------



## waynes world

SaveTheMantaRays said:


> Judging by the release dates and the reviews I found, this is old news, but cannot find anything on headfi, about these buds.
> 
> Simply called 360 earbuds.  Are they actual fantastic or a total gimmick?
> 
> ...



Wrong thread (this is an earbuds thread, not an iem thread).


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Wrong thread (this is an earbuds thread, not an iem thread).



after wandering to other threads, even folks here on headfi seems to casually call IEMs as earbuds..  and it always make me want to correct them and point them to this thread


----------



## raghav20

Received the Kube and Sabia today, they sound good. Glad i listed to wise men and women here and ordered these


----------



## Marcos Fontana

raghav20 said:


> Received the Kube and Sabia today, they sound good. Glad i listed to wise men and women here and ordered these


I bought the BDE v.2 today. Waiting for the Dunus and AIDEX...


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> after wandering to other threads, even folks here on headfi seems to casually call IEMs as earbuds..  and it always make me want to correct them and point them to this thread



I don't bother trying to correct people in other threads. But this thread is sacred, and corrections here are ordained!



raghav20 said:


> Received the Kube and Sabia today, they sound good. Glad i listed to wise men and women here and ordered these



Awesome! Enjoy.



Marcos Fontana said:


> I bought the BDE v.2 today. Waiting for the Dunus and AIDEX...



I'm really interested in your impressions


----------



## Marcos Fontana

waynes world said:


> I don't bother trying to correct people in other threads. But this thread is sacred, and corrections here are ordained!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can wait. I will post it.


----------



## HungryPanda

right on wayne, way to go


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> right on wayne, way to go




Ha ha - that was whacky!

I also enjoyed seeing some familiar faces in it (Laurie, Fry, Watson).

I got this one one wrong though. The presenter:




I thought for sure was John Lithgow. Wrong!


----------



## viatraco

HungryPanda said:


> No I do not think so. I believe this is a PK driver, the BLD 150 uses a 15mm driver to my knowledge


I'm going to buy earbud in yuin shell. Which of those two do you recommended more in terms of SQ ?


----------



## theresanarc

jogawag said:


> Remax RM 303: The sound quality is good for the price.
> Qian69: Warm, firm bass.
> RY4S: Fun with punches.
> But in the long run I would recommend Yincrow RW-9.



Just got the Remax RM-303 delivered. Fairly solid for $10, they're 40 ohm instead of 32 like all my others and I have nothing to drive them (just using a Galaxy S7 and Ipod Nano 7G) but they're fine. Same looking shell as FiiO EM3s but probably better sound. For those of us who don't like the larger MX500 shell, these are a nice alternative to boredom of the Qian39/Monk Lite shells when it comes to smaller sized Chi-Fi earbuds under $20. Though I still probably like the Qian39 sound more as well as the flat shape of the shell. 

They only come with one pair of thin foams which is idiotic but I need to order some new ones so whatever.


----------



## HungryPanda

viatraco said:


> I'm going to buy earbud in yuin shell. Which of those two do you recommended more in terms of SQ ?


 I personally prefer the BLD150


----------



## coolice

Marcos Fontana said:


> I bought the BDE v.2 today. Waiting for the Dunus and AIDEX...


BDE?


----------



## Vixox314

someone here has the remax 305m? I really like the look of this ones.


----------



## HungryPanda

The Remax 305m are actually pretty good earbuds


----------



## Marcos Fontana

coolice said:


> BDE?


Was the last:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Earbud-Tha...m43663.l10137&nordt=true&rt=nc&orig_cvip=true


----------



## SuperMAG

Hi, just wanted to ask if there is an earbuds that can compare with sound of penon BS1, I am looking for something flagship worthy but cheaper then bs1, I think that is the sound I like from descriptions

I have lza4, monk+ and emx500 original which broke down, between I like the emx for its big soundstage and bass.

I like to have big bass, huge and deep soundstage and clean and separated treble and thick and beautiful voice, and very smooth not sharp or bright and big sound, and BS1 fits the description but it's a bit expensive.

Any one has suggestions, does the recently hyped sd-10 has similar sound. Thanks


----------



## Vixox314

HungryPanda said:


> The Remax 305m are actually pretty good earbuds


Well time to get one, $11 for a good looking buds, I'm in, thanks!


----------



## Otto Motor

Put the ISN Audio Rambo review on Head-Fi, too.


----------



## Veyska (May 8, 2019)

I'm torn...  On the one hand my only complaint about my CCA C10/etc is the isolation.  On the other hand it *is* annoying and as someone pointed out in another thread there are earbuds with detachable cables, which me and my habitual blind spot with regards to earbuds had completely missed. I may pick the PT15 up out of curiosity because it's cheap but I'd give it better than even odds the PT25, assuming it sounds decent (does it?), would make me annoyed that I picked up a 2-pin BT20 instead of an MMCX as it's sufficiently similar in form factor to Bose earphones/Platronics Backbeat Fit that I'm betting it would work for me.  Possibly even so far as to make me feel like my dabbling in IEMs itself was the equivalent of aural busywork, however good they might sound.  It's rather tempting to hide behind my usual (and genuine!) "Earbuds don't work for my ears" and be reasonably content with what I've got now...  

*****

Edit - I'm open to other potential model recommendations, up to and including a dedicated Bluetooth pair of earbuds but they either need to be cable-up-able or else have Bose-like silicone tips because I wouldn't trust just the in-ear bit alone to stay put.  >-<  (And even the flanged Bose tips for their wireless models aren't completely stable at least in my right ear...)


----------



## assassin10000 (May 8, 2019)

Hi. That was me . Sorry (for your wallet).

Just an FYI, the MMCX BT20 won't fit the PT15, PT25, Ourart ACG/TI7 without heating up and rotating the MMCX 180 degrees, due to it's angle.

I did it to my old pair, that unfortunately I killed by putting it through the wash .

Before:


After

Unfortunately doing this prevents use with most IEM's, if thats an option you wanted to keep open. It would possibly work on the nicehck dt100 or moondrop crescent with mmcx conversion. Ymmv.



In any case, I would recommend picking up a $2 vido or $3 ry4s (way better for only $1 more) to see if the size of the mx500 style shell fits your ears. If uncomfortable/too large then I'd try a smaller PK style shell, those typically start at $10-15.

I have smaller ears so the PK style shell is way more comfortable for me.


----------



## Veyska

assassin10000 said:


> Hi. That was me . Sorry (for your wallet).
> 
> Just an FYI, the MMCX BT20 won't fit the PT15, PT25, Ourart ACG/TI7 without heating up and rotating the MMCX 180 degrees, due to it's angle.
> 
> ...


Not even with an ear-swap to wear them upside-down?  Huh.  Well that probably simplifies things...  lol  The PT25s with the comma-shaped silicone covers might still work cable-down, makes them rather like Bose in overall form factor, but even the cabled Bluetooth modules all seem to presume over-ear wearing...  I shall have to ponder.

(And it's not that much $, especially given I just picked up a used Sennheiser HD 700, mostly just the principle of the matter.   )


----------



## assassin10000 (May 8, 2019)

Veyska said:


> Not even with an ear-swap to wear them upside-down?  Huh.  Well that probably simplifies things...  lol  The PT25s with the comma-shaped silicone covers might still work cable-down, makes them rather like Bose in overall form factor, but even the cabled Bluetooth modules all seem to presume over-ear wearing...  I shall have to ponder.
> 
> (And it's not that much $, especially given I just picked up a used Sennheiser HD 700, mostly just the principle of the matter.   )



If you use a standard cable and a btr3 or es100, then you can swap left/right on the pt25 and wear over ear.

PT15/ACG/TI7 doesn't need swapping as its round. Just wrap cable over your ears and try it. Which may also work for any standard earbud as well, depending on your ears.


----------



## Jsingh4

Hi everyone I noticed that normal mx500 Shells use different caps than VE buds do on their mx500.
The first one is Monk+ which has slightly small or less wider cap than the standard mx500 it makes a difference for me in fit. I like the fit of Monk+
Now I really wanna get K600, But again it uses standard cap which is little bigger and causes discomfort.
Can anybody discuss any solution to this @ClieOS @hungrydad. Would really appreciate.
Thanks


----------



## Jsingh4

Pictures for difference


----------



## Jsingh4

Images to compare difference in caps


----------



## mrxarai

Marcos Fontana said:


> Was the last:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Earbud-Tha...m43663.l10137&nordt=true&rt=nc&orig_cvip=true



Looking forward to your impressions! I have the BOE (Black Onyx Earbud) and it's great.


----------



## nhlean96 (May 8, 2019)

As you know, Panasonic is a budget friendly brand and most of their headphones is at low price. They DID release some nice pairs of earbuds in the past, such as the RP-HV600 (first 2-way earbuds AFAIK), and followed by a bunch of budget earbuds. Ironically they couldn't keep up with Aiwa and Sony (or did they ?). It's really nice to have a pair of Sony or Aiwa buds these days, but they are overpriced as hell. $40 for an brand new Sony E828 on ebay ???
As I surfing ebay to find something interesting else, I stumbled over these Panasonic earbuds, which is ridiculously cheap, the RP-HV377 and RP-HV278. They're under $10 /w free shipping, *BRANDNEW*, comes with winding case and original packages. From the packages, I could say they were made somewhere around 15 years ago.
*Panasonic RP-HV377*


Spoiler










*Panasonic RP-HV278*


Spoiler











Well, didn't expected them to be superior to Snow Lotus 1.0+, RY4S, ... or any similar priced counterpart from Chinese these days, but when I got really excited and ordered the right away. Couldn't wait them to arrive and compare to my K's 64 and Snow Lotus 1.0+ 
Do you guys own any Panasonic earbuds or having tried them before, please share your experience.


----------



## musicday

If You are în UK i have some  Vennew,sparet sealed Electronics Monk plus earbuds , standard, premium, with or without microphone.
PM if you are interested.


----------



## mbwilson111

musicday said:


> If You are în UK i have some  Vennew,sparet sealed Electronics Monk plus earbuds , standard, premium, with or without microphone.
> PM if you are interested.



I think you are meant to make a listing in the for sale section.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

mrxarai said:


> Looking forward to your impressions! I have the BOE (Black Onyx Earbud) and it's great.


Do you have a link where I could aquire the BOE?


----------



## mrxarai

Marcos Fontana said:


> Do you have a link where I could aquire the BOE?


I wish I did, sadly. I purchased mine about 3 years ago from the the BDE seller. For whatever it's worth, the BOE is an airier Kube V1 in my opinion.


----------



## Jsingh4

Hey did anyone tried any silicone covers for earbuds like these ones and any comments on how good it is?


----------



## Jsingh4




----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Hello, Is there an Audible Difference between the Moondrop Nameless Copper & Nameless Silver? Any idea how it sound compared to the Monk LITE 120Ω ?


----------



## mrxarai

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> Hello, Is there an Audible Difference between the Moondrop Nameless Copper & Nameless Silver? Any idea how it sound compared to the Monk LITE 120Ω ?


I can't comment on the difference between the silver and copper Nameless, but the copper Nameless is more neutral than the 120 ohm monk lite. The mids on the lite has more weight than the airy Nameless.


----------



## ClieOS (May 9, 2019)

nhlean96 said:


> ...They DID release some nice pairs of earbuds in the past, such as the RP-HV600 (_*first 2-way earbuds AFAI*_*K*)....



It is definitely not the first 2 ways earbuds Panasonic ever made. The dual driver series started with HV70 on 1986, then HV75 and HV100 around 1987, followed by HV80 at around 1989, with HV600 on 1991 as the last model. Trying to find any earlier models than HV600 is probably just as hard as winning a jackpot. There is however a hidden dual driver model called HJ329 that was not independently released as a standalone model but only as an exclusive stock earphone for higher end Panasonic discman and MP3 player way back in the early 2000s. You can still find it on Taobao sometime but it is not nearly as good as the fame HV series. One fun fact is the HJ239's design is what inspired the Rose Mojito (and Masya to a lesser extent). Second fun fact is HV600 is not a true 2 ways design - the treble driver is not an driver an all, but more of a passive radiator.



TooPoorForHiFi said:


> Hello, Is there an Audible Difference between the Moondrop Nameless Copper & Nameless Silver?



Only difference are the color of the housing and the cable. Otherwise they are the exact same model.


----------



## athiker94 (May 9, 2019)

Just wanted to say, "Thank you" for all the recommendations on the Snow Lotus 1+ CE. Man, loving these. Excellent separation of instruments, airy soundstage, clean mids- highs with tons of spacious clean sound really makes these stand out. These are my daily go to's for awhile. Wish they had a touch more bottom end. But, it's nothing that detracts from their appeal too much and I'm okay with using a dot of eq for the lower end. Great earbud.


----------



## mrxarai

ClieOS said:


> It is definitely not the first 2 ways earbuds Panasonic ever made. The dual driver series started with HV70 on 1986, then HV75 and HV100 around 1987, followed by HV80 at around 1989, with HV600 on 1991 as the last model. Trying to find any earlier models than HV600 is probably just as hard as winning a jackpot. There is however a hidden dual driver model called HJ329 that was not independently released as a standalone model but only as an exclusive stock earphone for higher end Panasonic discman and MP3 player way back in the early 2000s. You can still find it on Taobao sometime but it is not nearly as good as the fame HV series. One fun fact is the HJ239's design is what inspired the Rose Mojito (and Masya to a lesser extent). Second fun fact is HV600 is not a true 2 ways design - the treble driver is not an driver an all, but more of a passive radiator.
> 
> 
> 
> Only difference are the color of the housing and the cable. Otherwise they are the exact same model.



I'm relieved to hear that there isn't an audible difference between the Nameless variances — the curiosity was getting to me!


----------



## mrxarai

Sorry for the double post, but would anyone happen to have any inside scoops on new Blox earbuds?


----------



## blati (May 10, 2019)

I finally received Hi-Z HP650!!

Actually, I want to change cable of this.




It is final e5000 which is mine.

I want to give E5000's cable to HP650.

So, I will ask expert to remodel HP650 that can switch cable(mmcx).

Is it great or bad???


----------



## seanc6441

mrxarai said:


> Sorry for the double post, but would anyone happen to have any inside scoops on new Blox earbuds?


After the Yin/TM9?

Is there another model releasing?


----------



## jogawag (May 10, 2019)

mrxarai said:


> Sorry for the double post, but would anyone happen to have any inside scoops on new Blox earbuds?





seanc6441 said:


> After the Yin/TM9?
> 
> Is there another model releasing?



I read in the certain blog that there is a model called "Blox YANG" (169 USD). The author and Blox were exchanging e-mail about "Blox YANG".


----------



## raghav20

Have been listening to sabia v6 and kube v1 since receiving them a couple of days ago. Sabia v6 is good but kube v1 is amazing. Is it me, or anyone else feel the same


----------



## activatorfly

raghav20 said:


> Have been listening to sabia v6 and kube v1 since receiving them a couple of days ago. Sabia v6 is good but kube v1 is amazing. Is it me, or anyone else feel the same


Yeah they are stunning.....love V2 also for the extra wide/deep soundstage!


----------



## HungryPanda

I agree both of those earbuds are rather good


----------



## Willber (May 10, 2019)

Me too, but I think these are better than both of them:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-Sales-FENGRU-DIY-Earbud-Earphone-HiFi-Noise-Cancelling-Ear-Buds-Flat-Head-earphone-Pk-Mx985/32805136073.html

Larger soundstage with better separation, layering and imaging IMO.

I've got a feeling these are the same but even cheaper so I ordered some to compare:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Brand-Go-pro-Accessories-Projector-Monopod-Croons-Tingo-Tg-38s-Earbud-Earphones-Pk-Mx985-A8/32687542028.html


----------



## HungryPanda

I have the Fengru 16 ohm ones but both those links look like the same earbud


----------



## raghav20

HungryPanda said:


> I agree both of those earbuds are rather good


Which one is your favourite


----------



## raghav20

Willber said:


> Me too, but I think these are better than both of them:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-Sales-FENGRU-DIY-Earbud-Earphone-HiFi-Noise-Cancelling-Ear-Buds-Flat-Head-earphone-Pk-Mx985/32805136073.html
> 
> ...


Would definitely add these on my list


----------



## Willber

HungryPanda said:


> I have the Fengru 16 ohm ones but both those links look like the same earbud


Yeah, I'll find out soon.


----------



## HungryPanda

They are both really good, the Sabia V6 pearl I have is not available but the Kube V1 is still out there. I prefer Kube V2 over it.


----------



## Willber

HungryPanda said:


> They are both really good, the Sabia V6 pearl I have is not available but the Kube V1 is still out there. I prefer Kube V2 over it.


I ordered the standard Sabia but received the Pearl. It's nice, currently I would put it above the Kube v1 and RW-9 but below the SR2 and Fengru Silver.


----------



## waynes world

raghav20 said:


> Have been listening to sabia v6 and kube v1 since receiving them a couple of days ago. Sabia v6 is good but kube v1 is amazing. Is it me, or anyone else feel the same





activatorfly said:


> Yeah they are stunning.....love V2 also for the extra wide/deep soundstage!





HungryPanda said:


> They are both really good, the Sabia V6 pearl I have is not available but the Kube V1 is still out there. I prefer Kube V2 over it.





Willber said:


> I ordered the standard Sabia but received the Pearl. It's nice, currently I would put it above the Kube v1 and RW-9 but below the SR2 and Fengru Silver.



This is why everyone should order all of them!

And don't forget about the ANN N200's - they rock as well


----------



## HungryPanda

Yes Wayne how could I forget them


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> This is why everyone should order all of them!
> 
> And don't forget about the ANN N200's - they rock as well



That is why I just ordered a spare ANN200.. with the copper cable.  I believe that  the orange Kube V1 that the Royal Mail accidentally sent back to the seller will be included in the package... along with a few other things we ordered.  Panda will be getting one of the Faaeal Original Batch  (I already have one) and a Dunu E10.  We will each be getting a Moondrop Shiro-Yuki.  Really excited to try those.


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> Yes Wayne how could I forget them



Well, you do have more than just a couple of earbuds, so it's understandable 



mbwilson111 said:


> That is why I just ordered a spare ANN200.. with the copper cable.  I believe that  the orange Kube V1 that the Royal Mail accidentally sent back to the seller will be included in the package... along with a few other things we ordered.  Panda will be getting one of the Faaeal Original Batch  (I already have one) and a Dunu E10.  We will each be getting a Moondrop Shiro-Yuki.  Really excited to try those.



Awesome on all counts!


----------



## cathee

Does anyone here have experience with the *DUNU Alpha 1*s?

The unique shape/configuration possibilities is intriguing me, would love to hear if anyone have impressions.

EDIT: Or maybe I'm just getting impatient waiting for my AliExpress shipment to come in....


----------



## Willber (May 10, 2019)

cathee said:


> Does anyone here have experience with the *DUNU Alpha 1*s?
> 
> The unique shape/configuration possibilities is intriguing me, would love to hear if anyone have impressions.
> 
> EDIT: Or maybe I'm just getting impatient waiting for my AliExpress shipment to come in....


I have them. Here are my brief impressions:

*Good*: Fantastic highs, excellent imaging etc, good 3D soundstage, very comfortable, superbly built
*Bad*: Huge spike from 1k-4k hz (needs EQ), strange pulsing during some tracks

I bought them because the DD/BA hybrid intrigued me, and because the price was very low (£30) for what was once a $150 earbud. I'm glad to have them for some tracks where they are superb, but they don't make good all-rounders. I got mine from here:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00RVZKDYA/ref=pe_3187911_189395841_TE_3p_dp_1

Here is a picture of the BAs at the front. They fit very well:


----------



## mrxarai

jogawag said:


> I read in the certain blog that there is a model called "Blox YANG" (169 USD). The author and Blox were exchanging e-mail about "Blox YANG".


I heard a while back that Woo was working on a more budget friendly earbud — perhaps the Yang is it!


----------



## RuFrost

dx100+ST10
Very good setup)) 

One owner of st-10 told me - there is no difference for st-10 if cable changed. Is it true?
I really tired of cable hustle...so do not want to wasted my time if result is not obvious. I know, a lot depends on cable itself, as each one has its own signature and texture of sound. But what are result of recabling for some owners of st-10 here?

P.s: I recabled to200, ti7, yinman 600 and for those earbuds changing cable from stock was a must.


----------



## ClieOS

cathee said:


> Does anyone here have experience with the *DUNU Alpha 1*s?.



These are huge. Unless you have really big outer ears, fit will be a major issue. But if you can get a good fit, it is actually quite good sounding.




RuFrost said:


> dx100+ST10
> Very good setup))
> 
> One owner of st-10 told me - there is no difference for st-10 if cable changed. Is it true?
> ...



I personally mostly stick to SPOCC with the ST-10, mostly because I don't like the stock cable and I use it with EarStudio ES100 (which a shorter cable works much better). There are reports on Erji.net that silver cable works very well with ST-10 - in any case, it is MMCX connection so you get to swap cable easily. It is not like you need to take it apart, so what's the downside?


----------



## Jsingh4

Guys are there any good 14.8mm buds for people with small ears. Something as good as Smabat or k's k600.


----------



## sareer007

K600


----------



## sareer007

Sorry was trying to search and i posted it lol and cant delete it


----------



## GREQ

Keep rounding-up all dem vintage buds...
Posting these up because they haven't been mentioned in the thread yet.

JVC HA-F105 (~1986)

         

Love the 80's black and gold style from top-tier JVC/Victor :3


----------



## RuFrost

ClieOS said:


> so what's the downside?


the downside is where and how to find the cable which will be the best for the price (how much to spend is another issue, as even 100$ is imho does not worth to be spent for that in the end) and which will work well with st-10 in terms of comfort))
the search itself is a huge issue, as upgrade cable can be of not justifying the price for upgraded sound in comparison with stock version of sound and in general.
Definitely, few cables are required in order to choose, at least, the most working for the one who is searching in his certain conditions. 

Cables in headphones, probably, are the most vulnerable part of it and requires lots of hustle...

any recommendations for specific one?)


----------



## mbwilson111

I am happy with the stock cable for the Smabat ST-10.  It fits comfortably and does not annoy me.


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> That is why I just ordered a spare ANN200.. with the copper cable.  I believe that  the orange Kube V1 that the Royal Mail accidentally sent back to the seller will be included in the package... along with a few other things we ordered.  Panda will be getting one of the Faaeal Original Batch  (I already have one) and a Dunu E10.  We will each be getting a Moondrop Shiro-Yuki.  Really excited to try those.


Thanks everyone for highlighting the resale of the ANN200 (+ copper cable!) - totally looking forward to them - the perfect companion to the duo of Kubes 1& 2, plus of course the ST10's! 
- Easily my favourite quad of buds


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> I am happy with the stock cable for the Smabat ST-10.  It fits comfortably and does not annoy me.


Cool!.....I love wearing them down whilst burning in, with a balanced cable!


----------



## ClieOS

RuFrost said:


> the downside is where and how to find the cable which will be the best for the price (how much to spend is another issue, as even 100$ is imho does not worth to be spent for that in the end) and which will work well with st-10 in terms of comfort))
> the search itself is a huge issue, as upgrade cable can be of not justifying the price for upgraded sound in comparison with stock version of sound and in general.
> Definitely, few cables are required in order to choose, at least, the most working for the one who is searching in his certain conditions.
> 
> ...



The real downside, as far as I can tell, is that you actually believe you probably have to spend $100 to get a cable that is worthwhile. If I have $100 in my budget, it will go straight to a new earbuds (or two, or three... you get the idea) instead of new cable, as I am more of a 'practical user' when it comes to cable - meaning I only buy cable I deem practical in use, not based on how euphonic it might / could be. Why? because almost all cable sellers are selling their cable on the cable's imaginary euphonic value rather than its practical value, and interpreting how euphonic a cable sounds has less consensus than people believing in whether earth is rounded or flatted, so to speak.

Anyway, don't really have any magical sound cable I can recommend you - but if I were to get a cable myself, I'll probably try the new FiiO pure silver cable that should be just a little over $100. As it is from FiiO, so we can at least be sure it should actually be pure silver, and you don't really get price that cheap from any other 'fancy' cable maker.


----------



## seanc6441 (May 11, 2019)

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-blox-yin-updated-revision-of-blox-tm9.906536/

My Blox Yin, for sale. If anyone here is interested. Open to offers that are reasonable!


----------



## Zerohour88

ClieOS said:


> The real downside, as far as I can tell, is that you actually believe you probably have to spend $100 to get a cable that is worthwhile. If I have $100 in my budget, it will go straight to a new earbuds (or two, or three... you get the idea) instead of new cable, as I am more of a 'practical user' when it comes to cable - meaning I only buy cable I deem practical in use, not based on how euphonic it might / could be. Why? because almost all cable sellers are selling their cable on the cable's imaginary euphonic value rather than its practical value, and interpreting how euphonic a cable sounds has less consensus than people believing in whether earth is rounded or flatted, so to speak.
> 
> Anyway, don't really have any magical sound cable I can recommend you - but if I were to get a cable myself, I'll probably try the new FiiO pure silver cable that should be just a little over $100. As it is from FiiO, so we can at least be sure it should actually be pure silver, and you don't really get price that cheap from any other 'fancy' cable maker.



another good cable around the $100 is the Ibasso CB12s, super soft and comes in balanced with a 3.5mm adapter. Very good value IMO.


----------



## Jsingh4

HungryPanda said:


> The Linsoul DTM A8 have a much bassier sound signature although mids and treble are fine


Does silver cable make any difference on this.


----------



## TheoS53

ClieOS said:


> because almost all cable sellers are selling their cable on the cable's imaginary euphonic value rather than its practical value, and interpreting how euphonic a cable sounds has less consensus than people believing in whether earth is rounded or flatted, so to speak.



+ 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Not taking into account the fit, everybody should try the KDE250. Listening to music at a low volume has never been so enjoyable. All details are there... The bass is so detailed, mids are there so soft and highs are at the best level. In a quiet place, at night listening to You Weren´t There Anymore (Negative Gemini) it is unbeatable...


----------



## HungryPanda

KDE 250 is very nice


----------



## minnyB

mbwilson111 said:


> That is why I just ordered a spare ANN200.. with the copper cable.  I believe that  the orange Kube V1 that the Royal Mail accidentally sent back to the seller will be included in the package... along with a few other things we ordered.  Panda will be getting one of the Faaeal Original Batch  (I already have one) and a Dunu E10.  We will each be getting a Moondrop Shiro-Yuki.  Really excited to try those.


Hi, did U get your ANN 200 from Indonesia seller?
Thank you!


----------



## Con Par

Guys Smabat ST-10 or Toneking TO-600? (i prefer my buds to have good lows)
OR is there anything better than those two under 150$


----------



## mbwilson111

minnyB said:


> Hi, did U get your ANN 200 from Indonesia seller?
> Thank you!



The ANN200 with the copper cable along with the rest of that order has shipped today.  I only ordered it on Friday.  

i do already own an ANN200 with the black cable from an earlier order and I like it so much that is why I ordered the second one.  Other people have also made positive comments about their ANNs.  I think this is my fourth order with this seller.  He is very reliable if that is what you are wondering.


----------



## Veyska

Marcos Fontana said:


> Not taking into account the fit, everybody should try the KDE250. Listening to music at a low volume has never been so enjoyable. All details are there... The bass is so detailed, mids are there so soft and highs are at the best level. In a quiet place, at night listening to You Weren´t There Anymore (Negative Gemini) it is unbeatable...


I keep being tempted whenever it surfaces on Massdrop (blahblahblah rebranding change) but I've yet to bite because the fit *is* supposed to be so finicky and I've already got travel-sized noisemakers for my ears that I'm quite happy with, but it's so fascinating in its weird design and I had a pair of cheap Radio Shack-branded Sony foldable earphones-with-a-headband that had the same mini-speaker-pointed-into-your-ear setup that I happily used for several years as airplane earphones...  >->


----------



## DBaldock9

Con Par said:


> Guys Smabat ST-10 or Toneking TO-600? (i prefer my buds to have good lows)
> OR is there anything better than those two under 150$



Both of these have MMCX - so is that one of your requirements?
If not, you might also consider the K's K600.


----------



## waynes world

MelodyMood said:


> I guess you can still find them. Ebay and I also saw on AE: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FOR...html?spm=2114.11010108.10001.5.650c649btyudYF. But the one I had was not with mic so hope this one sounds exactly like that.





ClieOS said:


> There are boats' load of fake Apple iBuds out there, just so everyone knows.



Buyer beware: I bought these ones a month or so back. Do. Not. Buy.

Do they only function properly off of Apple products or something? Wow, they are bad (no bass, thin, hollow, bad sound). 

It's similar to when I plug in a mic'd jack (TTRS) into a TRS jack that doesn't handle it - the sound is hollow/bad. But I tried it in quite a few daps etc, and the problem is persistent, so I have my doubts about that being the problem. I haven't tried plugging it into an Apple product, but again, I have my doubts.

My guess is that they are very bad fakes, or else there is something wrong with this particular unit.


----------



## BloodyPenguin (May 13, 2019)

Picked up this DIY *Docomo* on AliExpress.  It is not a review unit, I tried but the seller never replied to me.  I bought it anyways.  (I'm not including the link to the product, as I don't post that much anymore and I am not sure if we are allowed to post up links to AliExpress.)

EDIT: I'm adding the link, but please let me know if this violates any polices before you delete this post.

www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-PK2-earphone-16ohms-32ohms/32237685233.html

*Item description says PK2, but it is clearly a Docomo.







They had versions with mics and versions like the one I got that don't.  I asked that they put on a black 3.5mm plug (instead of the silver as shown), again they did not reply, but they did complete my request.  Also, they did come with a case and some black foam covers.  I added the pink and white covers that I had already.  Thought it looked better that way.






The build is very good.  The cable is a bit stiff and has some microphonics.  Not great for use on the go, but stationary at a desk, the are just fine.  The sound is 100% Docomo!  I still can't get over the sub-bass, it is phenomenal.  Highs are crisp and true.  Mids are decent, but I would not say this are for vocal lovers.  I was listening to [Bassnectar - After Thought] and my mouth almost hit the floor with the booming lows...  So awesome.


----------



## waynes world

BloodyPenguin said:


> Picked up this DIY *Docomo* on AliExpress.  It is not a review unit, I tried but the seller never replied to me.  I bought it anyways.  (I'm not including the link to the product, as I don't post that much anymore and I am not sure if we are allowed to post up links to AliExpress.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Intriguing (and nice pics)! I tried a search on Aliexpress but can't find them. Feel free to provide the link (just delete all of the stuff after ".html"). Thanks!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

waynes world said:


> Intriguing (and nice pics)! I tried a search on Aliexpress but can't find them. Feel free to provide the link (just delete all of the stuff after ".html"). Thanks!



I've edited my original post to show the link as well.  

www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-PK2-earphone-16ohms-32ohms/32237685233.html

*Item description says PK2, but it is clearly a Docomo.


----------



## assassin10000

Con Par said:


> Guys Smabat ST-10 or Toneking TO-600? (i prefer my buds to have good lows)
> OR is there anything better than those two under 150$



Also depends on source. You'll need a good one for a 600ohm bud but the st-10 works fine from any mobile.


----------



## Jsingh4

Guys any body heard of these?


 
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cE2T8SAc


----------



## Marcos Fontana

assassin10000 said:


> Also depends on source. You'll need a good one for a 600ohm bud but the st-10 works fine from any mobile.


Lol, the unique thing that I have to say is that I enjoy my K600 more than my HE400i many times.


----------



## Marcos Fontana (May 13, 2019)

Jsingh4 said:


> Guys any body heard of these?
> 
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cE2T8SAc


Strange... I had to copy the link. Click send me to ali home page.


----------



## ValSilva

Marcos, did you received your Sabia's already? I received mine today, I tried just a little bit, but I'll got more time on weekend.


----------



## waynes world

waynes world said:


> Buyer beware: I bought these ones a month or so back. Do. Not. Buy.
> 
> Do they only function properly off of Apple products or something? Wow, they are bad (no bass, thin, hollow, bad sound).
> 
> ...



My 15 year old daughter has an iPhone (with a headphone jack even!). I asked her spark up a song and let me try the buds on her phone. Holy Hannah bad!

I wasn't sure about the song either, so I instead tried with the ANN's, and wow, immensely better, AND the song suddenly sounds rather cool!


----------



## Marcos Fontana

ValSilva said:


> Marcos, did you received your Sabia's already? I received mine today, I tried just a little bit, but I'll got more time on weekend.


Not yet  Missing it too much! But K600 and KDE250 are both good toys


----------



## Jsingh4

Marcos Fontana said:


> Strange... I had to copy the link. Click send me to ali home page.


Hmm try the eBay link -
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PRK1-HiFi-...Audiophile-Earphones-in-Fashion-/323732872419

They are called Paiaudio PRK1


----------



## subwoof3r

BloodyPenguin said:


> Picked up this DIY *Docomo* on AliExpress.  It is not a review unit, I tried but the seller never replied to me.  I bought it anyways.  (I'm not including the link to the product, as I don't post that much anymore and I am not sure if we are allowed to post up links to AliExpress.)
> 
> EDIT: I'm adding the link, but please let me know if this violates any polices before you delete this post.
> 
> ...



Looks like the seller says "PK2" because of the grid (as both PK1/PK2 shares the exact same grid).
I'm a bit surprised because it looks like 100% identical to good PK2 drivers we can find very easily on aliexpress. And to me, those drivers in Yuin shells sound is OK but there is definitely better alternatives.
Looks like in Docomo shells those drivers sound much better then?
Maybe I will give a try..  (as I dont have any docomo shell style yet in my collection)
Thanks for sharing


----------



## Matarro (May 14, 2019)

Jsingh4 said:


> Hmm try the eBay link -
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/PRK1-HiFi-...Audiophile-Earphones-in-Fashion-/323732872419
> 
> They are called Paiaudio PRK1



Those look exactly like the Hyck100 but with another cable. There's not much info to find about them. I think ClieOS has a pair so maybe he can tell you if they're good.


----------



## BabyLamb89

Not had a chance to listen yet but I have just retrieved a package: inside DQSM Pandas and Yincrow rw-100. Yay!


----------



## Dobrescu George

I now have Eros Earbuds in my possesion. Time to listen


----------



## Jsingh4

Matarro said:


> Those look exactly like the Hyck100 but with another cable. There's not much info to find about them. I think ClieOS has a pair so maybe he can tell you if they're good.



I think @ClieOS  has Paiaudio PR1 not PRK1


----------



## WoodyLuvr

The cable on my old PureSounds PS100-600S 600Ω is dying... thinking on either re-cabling or simply replacing them with a pair of PureSounds PS-100 500Ω or K's K600/K500 as I desire the same ear-friendly sound signature.

Any/all advice welcome.


----------



## chinmie

WoodyLuvr said:


> The cable on my old PureSounds PS100-600S 600Ω is dying... thinking on either re-cabling or simply replacing them with a pair of PureSounds PS-100 500Ω or K's K600/K500 as I desire the same ear-friendly sound signature.
> 
> Any/all advice welcome.



if you or someone can recable it without messing with the original tuning, then recable it would be better. K's and Puresound have a different tuning, usually K's have really warm midbass while puresound is more neutral


----------



## subwoof3r (May 15, 2019)

Just received today my Smabat ST-10 replacement pair, everything is now OK, the MMCX connectors has really been fixed from stock cable side (much sturdy and need force for the safety click.
Also, it don't rotate easily like before, it needs much force to rotate them from stock cable.
As always, Great and quick service from Jim (NiceHCK), appreciated.

I just gave a quick listen before return to work, and it sounds the exact same as my first batch (which is nice). Great manufacturing constancy from Smabat.


----------



## RuFrost (May 15, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> The real downside, as far as I can tell, is that you actually believe you probably have to spend $100 to get a cable that is worthwhile. If I have $100 in my budget, it will go straight to a new earbuds (or two, or three... you get the idea) instead of new cable, as I am more of a 'practical user' when it comes to cable - meaning I only buy cable I deem practical in use, not based on how euphonic it might / could be. Why? because almost all cable sellers are selling their cable on the cable's imaginary euphonic value rather than its practical value, and interpreting how euphonic a cable sounds has less consensus than people believing in whether earth is rounded or flatted, so to speak.
> 
> Anyway, don't really have any magical sound cable I can recommend you - but if I were to get a cable myself, I'll probably try the new FiiO pure silver cable that should be just a little over $100. As it is from FiiO, so we can at least be sure it should actually be pure silver, and you don't really get price that cheap from any other 'fancy' cable maker.


 

I said 100$, as example) I actually, do not want to spend on cable more than 30-40$ for all and done. I auditioned few upgrade cables for such price and really like the result - brought enough satisfaction for me. (also had few mmcx cable for 100$, but sold them years ago,so can't test...) So,I'm just looking for good sounding cheap cable. The best I have tried so far is upgrade cable for ti7 on penon (unfortunately sold it+ it was not balanced). With such I would be more than happy))


----------



## ClieOS

viatraco said:


> BK2...I don't like Compared in the same time with EB2, Monk+ and TO65 on Radsone ES100 and Smsl M2.
> BK2 was shouty and unpleasent. For me one of the most overpriced earbuds. Build quality is good but sound is bad for me. For 20$ that i payed is acceptable but for 75$ totally insane IMO



Wait, just saw this - are we talking about **** BK2 here? I remember when I got mine (when first launch) it was about $43 (around RMB300) on the official Taobao store and now it actually goes down slightly to about US$39 (RMB270), not to mention it was much cheaper on some Ali. store I think any Ali seller that listed it over $40 or so are probably just looking to rip people off. Also, my BK2 definitely doesn't sound shouty or unpleasent - it is warm and smooth overall, and very easy going sound signature that is not too bad even for the $40 price tag, even if it is not a particular giant killer at that price point. For the $26 or so price tag right now at Ali, I'll say it is actually quite a good choice for anyone who are looking for a relaxing sound.. Make me wonder if we are even talking about the same earbud here.



Jsingh4 said:


> Guys any body heard of these?
> 
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cE2T8SAc



I have another earbud with that exact same outer shell - it doesn't have an official English name but a direct translated Chinese name of 'Abbot'. This is not a common shell and I only know one earbud (the Abbot) that used it until I saw this. I wonder if they are the same earbud or perhaps PaiAudio somehow was able to source the same shell for their own driver. Just a note that the Abbot has a V-shaped sound with good end-to-end reach and soundstage, but can sound slightly aggressive at time.


----------



## legacy404

So I got the TY Hi-Z HP150S after reading some good things about them.  While sounding extremely detailed, the highs can sometimes be harsh/unpleasant within a specific range/volume, forcing me to turn it down -- it's like a drone.  Anybody else notice this, or is my set busted? Feel like it kind of ruins them, unfortunately.


----------



## mbwilson111

legacy404 said:


> So I got the TY Hi-Z HP150S after reading some good things about them.  While sounding extremely detailed, the highs can sometimes be harsh/unpleasant within a specific range/volume, forcing me to turn it down -- it's like a drone.  Anybody else notice this, or is my set busted? Feel like it kind of ruins them, unfortunately.



Mine is the TY Hi-Z AWK-F150TS (the red/blue) one.  I am not sure what the difference might be but I don't have that problem.  Are you  using foams?  Have you burned them in at all?


----------



## assassin10000

subwoof3r said:


> Just received today my Smabat ST-10 replacement pair, everything is now OK, the MMCX connectors has really been fixed from stock cable side (much sturdy and need force for the safety click.
> Also, it don't rotate easily like before, it needs much force to rotate them from stock cable.
> As always, Great and quick service from Jim (NiceHCK), appreciated.
> 
> I just gave a quick listen before return to work, and it sounds the exact same as my first batch (which is nice). Great manufacturing constancy from Smabat.



Cool. Glad it worked out. The connectors are kind of loose and easy to snap in/out. I can see how this would cause issue's with play to the side spreading and eventually damaging the center pin.

I've got a replacement set on the way as well. As my left side started having problems. (Thanks to Smabat & VS audio store)


----------



## legacy404

mbwilson111 said:


> Mine is the TY Hi-Z AWK-F150TS (the red/blue) one.  I am not sure what the difference might be but I don't have that problem.  Are you  using foams?  Have you burned them in at all?


I tried using the thick foams from the VE ex pack but still persists.  Burned in for a few hours at most.  Did you notice a difference after burn-in?


----------



## Marcos Fontana

legacy404 said:


> So I got the TY Hi-Z HP150S after reading some good things about them.  While sounding extremely detailed, the highs can sometimes be harsh/unpleasant within a specific range/volume, forcing me to turn it down -- it's like a drone.  Anybody else notice this, or is my set busted? Feel like it kind of ruins them, unfortunately.


This information is new to me. I have one and like it a lot. Maybe a faultly unit?


----------



## TheoS53

legacy404 said:


> I tried using the thick foams from the VE ex pack but still persists.  Burned in for a few hours at most.  Did you notice a difference after burn-in?



One of the downsides of these open earbuds is that their sound can vary a lot from one person to the next simply due to the shape of your ears. If your ears don't angle them at just the right angle towards your canals then they can sound quite bad at times.

However, I also had these earbuds basically when they first came out and I too found them to be way too bright. It was actually funny coz when I posted on facebook that I didn't like the sound the guy behind the company basically said people who don't like the sound have broken ears :-D. The only thing I found that greatly helped the sound was to open them up and remove the standard tuning foam on the inside of the housing...and then I cut one of my Hiegi donut foams in half (along the seam) and placed that on the inside of the housing. That really tamed the highs and added some down low presence from what I remember. If you search for my username in this thread then you'll see my posts and pics of the mod.


----------



## Jsingh4

ClieOS said:


> Wait, just saw this - are we talking about **** BK2 here? I remember when I got mine (when first launch) it was about $43 (around RMB300) on the official Taobao store and now it actually goes down slightly to about US$39 (RMB270), not to mention it was much cheaper on some Ali. store I think any Ali seller that listed it over $40 or so are probably just looking to rip people off. Also, my BK2 definitely doesn't sound shouty or unpleasent - it is warm and smooth overall, and very easy going sound signature that is not too bad even for the $40 price tag, even if it is not a particular giant killer at that price point. For the $26 or so price tag right now at Ali, I'll say it is actually quite a good choice for anyone who are looking for a relaxing sound.. Make me wonder if we are even talking about the same earbud here.
> 
> 
> 
> I have another earbud with that exact same outer shell - it doesn't have an official English name but a direct translated Chinese name of 'Abbot'. This is not a common shell and I only know one earbud (the Abbot) that used it until I saw this. I wonder if they are the same earbud or perhaps PaiAudio somehow was able to source the same shell for their own driver. Just a note that the Abbot has a V-shaped sound with good end-to-end reach and soundstage, but can sound slightly aggressive at time.





ClieOS said:


> Wait, just saw this - are we talking about **** BK2 here? I remember when I got mine (when first launch) it was about $43 (around RMB300) on the official Taobao store and now it actually goes down slightly to about US$39 (RMB270), not to mention it was much cheaper on some Ali. store I think any Ali seller that listed it over $40 or so are probably just looking to rip people off. Also, my BK2 definitely doesn't sound shouty or unpleasent - it is warm and smooth overall, and very easy going sound signature that is not too bad even for the $40 price tag, even if it is not a particular giant killer at that price point. For the $26 or so price tag right now at Ali, I'll say it is actually quite a good choice for anyone who are looking for a relaxing sound.. Make me wonder if we are even talking about the same earbud here.
> 
> 
> 
> I have another earbud with that exact same outer shell - it doesn't have an official English name but a direct translated Chinese name of 'Abbot'. This is not a common shell and I only know one earbud (the Abbot) that used it until I saw this. I wonder if they are the same earbud or perhaps PaiAudio somehow was able to source the same shell for their own driver. Just a note that the Abbot has a V-shaped sound with good end-to-end reach and soundstage, but can sound slightly aggressive at time.



How is the fit with your Abbot.


----------



## Themilkman46290

legacy404 said:


> I tried using the thick foams from the VE ex pack but still persists.  Burned in for a few hours at most.  Did you notice a difference after burn-in?


We also have the red and blue(my wife does) when we first got it, I felt it was a bit sharp, we let it burn in for about 4-5 days (non stop on medium volume) after that they smoothed out quite a bit, they are fairly bright but not like they were in the beginning. 

They instructions in the box say 150 hours of burn in recommended 
Some don't believe in burn in, but it made a fairly big difference


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 15, 2019)

legacy404 said:


> I tried using the thick foams from the VE ex pack but still persists.  Burned in for a few hours at most.  Did you notice a difference after burn-in?



Is yours the same as mine?  Mine is the TS and looks like this. I am never sure if burn in does anything.

TY Hi-Z AWK-F150TS


----------



## legacy404

TheoS53 said:


> One of the downsides of these open earbuds is that their sound can vary a lot from one person to the next simply due to the shape of your ears. If your ears don't angle them at just the right angle towards your canals then they can sound quite bad at times.
> 
> However, I also had these earbuds basically when they first came out and I too found them to be way too bright. It was actually funny coz when I posted on facebook that I didn't like the sound the guy behind the company basically said people who don't like the sound have broken ears :-D. The only thing I found that greatly helped the sound was to open them up and remove the standard tuning foam on the inside of the housing...and then I cut one of my Hiegi donut foams in half (along the seam) and placed that on the inside of the housing. That really tamed the highs and added some down low presence from what I remember. If you search for my username in this thread then you'll see my posts and pics of the mod.





Themilkman46290 said:


> We also have the red and blue(my wife does) when we first got it, I felt it was a bit sharp, we let it burn in for about 4-5 days (non stop on medium volume) after that they smoothed out quite a bit, they are fairly bright but not like they were in the beginning.
> 
> They instructions in the box say 150 hours of burn in recommended
> Some don't believe in burn in, but it made a fairly big difference



Thanks, will let burn in longer.  They are bright, and generally I like that but when it hit a certain frequency/note, it became sharp, or rather piercing esp on vocals.  For that, I'd prefer my monks or RY4S instead.


----------



## mbwilson111

TheoS53 said:


> However, I also had these earbuds basically when they first came out and I too found them to be way too bright. It was actually funny coz when I posted on facebook that I didn't like the sound the guy behind the company basically said people who don't like the sound have broken ears :-D. The only thing I found that greatly helped the sound was to open them up and remove the standard tuning foam on the inside of the housing...and then I cut one of my Hiegi donut foams in half (along the seam) and placed that on the inside of the housing. That really tamed the highs and added some down low presence from what I remember. If you search for my username in this thread then you'll see my posts and pics of the mod.



I did the search and found it... almost two years ago.  It looks to me like you have the S version not the TS that I  have.  Yours have black shells. They are not the same....and mine certainly does not need any bass boost like you were talking about in the first part of your post.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1471#post-13654748


----------



## Themilkman46290

legacy404 said:


> Thanks, will let burn in longer.  They are bright, and generally I like that but when it hit a certain frequency/note, it became sharp, or rather piercing esp on vocals.  For that, I'd prefer my monks or RY4S instead.


Might also try double foams or a ring under the foams( one of my ears is slightly larger so I use a ring under the left foam to help the seal , it gives a fair bit more bass and tames the highs when they seal good, otherwise they can be alot brighter


----------



## noknok23

Themilkman46290 said:


> Might also try double foams or a ring under the foams( one of my ears is slightly larger so I use a ring under the left foam to help the seal , it gives a fair bit more bass and tames the highs when they seal good, otherwise they can be alot brighter


my ty hi 150s were harsh at the beginning too, now they are not smooth but quite neutral, not sharp.
I don't know if it helps but i recabled the plug with gold plated oyaide. I also use a warmer dap than aune m1s which was too bright (for me). imo this earbuds is excellent
give it time and try other sources,


----------



## Marcos Fontana

noknok23 said:


> my ty hi 150s were harsh at the beginning too, now they are not smooth but quite neutral, not sharp.
> I don't know if it helps but i recabled the plug with gold plated oyaide. I also use a warmer dap than aune m1s which was too bright (for me). imo this earbuds is excellent
> give it time and try other sources,


Sources make sense... I always used it with my BL and never felt it harsh.


----------



## mbwilson111

Marcos Fontana said:


> Sources make sense... I always used it with my BL and never felt it harsh.



and I use mine with good DAPs  but like I said mine is the TS version not just the S.  I love mine.


----------



## ClieOS

Jsingh4 said:


> How is the fit with your Abbot.



don't have any fit issue with mine, though I reckon it is probably not the best for small ears.


----------



## TheoS53

mbwilson111 said:


> I did the search and found it... almost two years ago.  It looks to me like you have the S version not the TS that I  have.  Yours have black shells. They are not the same....and mine certainly does not need any bass boost like you were talking about in the first part of your post.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1471#post-13654748





I was replying to legacy404 who does have the S


----------



## mbwilson111

TheoS53 said:


> I was replying to legacy404 who does have the S



I know, I was trying to help find the post.. it was not that easy.


----------



## cqtek

Hello.

Here you have my humble review about the Smabat ST-10, I finally had time to write it! After the times that @waynes world recommended me the Svara L...
I hope you like it.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-st-10.23718/reviews#review-22064

On the other hand, it seems that other earbuds are being cooked for next month...they just told me that, no level, no price... I'm clueless about the thread.


----------



## rkw (May 16, 2019)

Marcos Fontana said:


> Not taking into account the fit, everybody should try the KDE250.


KDE250 is back on Massdrop (Drop), now down to $60: https://drop.com/buy/koss-kde-250-ear-clips

Should I hold out until it goes to $40?    I haven't gotten it because I have smallish ears and fully expect fit problems. Not sure that I would be able to get much use out of them.


----------



## areek

rkw said:


> KDE250 is back on Massdrop (Drop), now down to $60: https://drop.com/buy/koss-kde-250-ear-clips
> 
> Should I hold out until it goes to $40?    I haven't gotten it because I have smallish ears and fully expect fit problems. Not sure that I could actually get much use out of it.


Very much interested. How good are these? Any chance equal/better than usual 150USD offerings?


----------



## waynes world

cqtek said:


> Hello.
> 
> Here you have my humble review about the Smabat ST-10, I finally had time to write it! After the times that @waynes world recommended me the Svara L...
> I hope you like it.
> ...



Wow, really good review! (it reinforces why I don't do them lol). It is great that you are enjoying the ST-10's!


----------



## waynes world (May 16, 2019)

rkw said:


> KDE250 is back on Massdrop (Drop), now down to $60: https://drop.com/buy/koss-kde-250-ear-clips
> 
> Should I hold out until it goes to $40?    I haven't gotten it because I have smallish ears and fully expect fit problems. Not sure that I could actually get much use out of it.



Unfortunately massdrop uses the MSRP price when shipping (ie $250 in this case), so I would probably get hit with $60CAD of duty and taxes. So no go for me from them.

Ignore - I was wrong.


----------



## HungryPanda

waynes world said:


> Unfortunately massdrop uses the MSRP price when shipping (ie $250 in this case), so I would probably get hit with $60CAD of duty and taxes. So no go for me from them.


 I bought these from Massdrop and they put the purchase price on package not MSRP


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> I bought these from Massdrop and they put the purchase price on package not MSRP



Thanks - that's good to know! Maybe they have changed their ways (or I had it wrong - entirely possible!)


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Thanks - that's good to know! Maybe they have changed their ways (or I had it wrong - entirely possible!)



People have pointed out that they put full value on the package...that they cannot / will not put less...meaning they put exactly what you paid.


----------



## seanc6441

rkw said:


> KDE250 is back on Massdrop (Drop), now down to $60: https://drop.com/buy/koss-kde-250-ear-clips
> 
> Should I hold out until it goes to $40?    I haven't gotten it because I have smallish ears and fully expect fit problems. Not sure that I would be able to get much use out of them.


What was the deal last time round? Wasn't it $50?


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> People have pointed out that they put full value on the package...that they cannot / will not put less...meaning they put exactly what you paid.



I see that the transaction I was thinking of was $82.99US, which is about $110CAD. And that being over $100CAD was what probably triggered the extra duty. So I was mistaken and I will edit my post


----------



## seanc6441 (May 16, 2019)

WoodyLuvr said:


> The cable on my old PureSounds PS100-600S 600Ω is dying... thinking on either re-cabling or simply replacing them with a pair of PureSounds PS-100 500Ω or K's K600/K500 as I desire the same ear-friendly sound signature.
> 
> Any/all advice welcome.


You've built custom grados, recabling these buds should be a breeze for you .

I say recable them! You can use the same thickness cable to not distrupt the tuning.


----------



## legacy404

mbwilson111 said:


> I did the search and found it... almost two years ago.  It looks to me like you have the S version not the TS that I  have.  Yours have black shells. They are not the same....and mine certainly does not need any bass boost like you were talking about in the first part of your post.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1471#post-13654748





noknok23 said:


> my ty hi 150s were harsh at the beginning too, now they are not smooth but quite neutral, not sharp.
> I don't know if it helps but i recabled the plug with gold plated oyaide. I also use a warmer dap than aune m1s which was too bright (for me). imo this earbuds is excellent
> give it time and try other sources,



These reviews seem to be on the money.  Good bass, overly emphasized treble, and lacking mids.  I'll give it time to burn in more but seems like a waste of $40 so far, not really willing to go into it and swap out the cable.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

rkw said:


> KDE250 is back on Massdrop (Drop), now down to $60: https://drop.com/buy/koss-kde-250-ear-clips
> 
> Should I hold out until it goes to $40?    I haven't gotten it because I have smallish ears and fully expect fit problems. Not sure that I would be able to get much use out of them.


It didn't fit in my wife ears (I believe that my ears are 2 times more deep). For me, it fitted really well. Is hard to say without testing it. Price is the same... I got mine for $59.99:

1x

*Koss KDE250 Earphones*

Transaction ID:

MD-XXXXX-3825xx

Subtotal:

$59.99

Shipping:

FREE

Tax:

$4.35


----------



## rkw

seanc6441 said:


> What was the deal last time round? Wasn't it $50?


Seems that the KDE250 was also $60 the last time, in January. The first time on Massdrop was two years ago at $100.


----------



## ClieOS

Really won't recommend KDE250 for any price unless you are only aiming for collecting purpose. It has some of the most anti-human design of any earphone I ever tried.


----------



## seanc6441 (May 16, 2019)

Not sure why they didn't create a more ear friendly shape for the mids/treble driver on the kde250. Something to improve the comfort/fit.

The bass driver needs to be big to have impact without a seal but the mids/ treble driver could have been designed to fit a smaller housing maybe even use an earpod shape.

Seems like this product is almost great but doesn't quite make the mark for most.



ClieOS said:


> Really won't recommend KDE250 for any price unless you are only aiming for collecting purpose. It has some of the most anti-human design of any earphone I ever tried.


Seems so. That big ass bass driver is just wasted potential in a poor design.

They could even have copied a moijto like dual driver setup, with the earclip system to hold up the big bass driver. Fit would be far better that way.

This is basically going to be the Rose Mojito pro I guess albeit with a more manageable bass driver size. (20mm driver for bass right?). Wonder if that will use an earclip or if they managed to keep the weight down enough for it not to be an issue.


----------



## waynes world

ClieOS said:


> Really won't recommend KDE250 for any price unless you are only aiming for collecting purpose. It has some of the most anti-human design of any earphone I ever tried.



Lol!  Whenever I get interested, I start reading the discussions there. I am a _bit_ anti-human, but not completely, so I don't think they would work for me


----------



## HungryPanda

The KDE 250 just slipped perfectly into my ears straight out of the box, unlike these Dunu Alpha 1's I'm  fighting with at the moment. I know they have potential


----------



## Willber

HungryPanda said:


> The KDE 250 just slipped perfectly into my ears straight out of the box, unlike these *Dunu Alpha 1's I'm  fighting with at the moment. I know they have potential*


I found the DUNU A1 fits well and gives the most open sound with the supplied foam donuts. They are very comfortable to me and, with certain tracks where it doesn't exhibit the weird 'pulsing' I described a while ago, they sound fantastic.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

HungryPanda said:


> The KDE 250 just slipped perfectly into my ears straight out of the box, unlike these Dunu Alpha 1's I'm  fighting with at the moment. I know they have potential


For me, it fitted really well too.


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> The KDE 250 just slipped perfectly into my ears straight out of the box, unlike these Dunu Alpha 1's I'm  fighting with at the moment. I know they have potential



Enabling at it's finest!


----------



## Willber (May 16, 2019)

I'm sure they will fit me, and I've been interested in them for ages, but at $60 + extras... I don't know...


----------



## Veyska

rkw said:


> KDE250 is back on Massdrop (Drop), now down to $60: https://drop.com/buy/koss-kde-250-ear-clips
> 
> Should I hold out until it goes to $40?    I haven't gotten it because I have smallish ears and fully expect fit problems. Not sure that I would be able to get much use out of them.





seanc6441 said:


> What was the deal last time round? Wasn't it $50?





rkw said:


> Seems that the KDE250 was also $60 the last time, in January. The first time on Massdrop was two years ago at $100.


They've popped up a few times in the past few months and they've been 60$ every time.



Willber said:


> I'm sure they will fit me, and I've been interested in them for ages, but at $60 + extras... I don't know...


I'm *pretty* sure they'll fit, since I've got a pair of Sonys that are built along the same lines (at least for the in-ear bits), but only pretty sure and as you say 60$, which is a bit past my "Eh sure it's cheap why not" threshold.  If I hadn't found a pair of IEMs (two, really) that I was quite happy with sonically I suspect I'd have nabbed a pair of these already though...


----------



## Willber (May 16, 2019)

Veyska said:


> I'm *pretty* sure they'll fit, since I've got a pair of Sonys that are built along the same lines (at least for the in-ear bits), but only pretty sure and as you say 60$, which is a bit past my "Eh sure it's cheap why not" threshold.  If I hadn't found a pair of IEMs (two, really) that I was quite happy with sonically I suspect I'd have nabbed a pair of these already though...


I'd never heard of those Sonys. Here is a picture which shows the similar configuration to the Koss:







And the problem with the $60 dollars for the KDE250 is that it will be probably be closer to $80 dollars after shipping, handling and taxes. Too expensive for me to buy on a whim, especially as I have many buds that I'm happy with.


----------



## Veyska

Willber said:


> I'd never heard of those Sonys.


Their sound is okay at best, but they were cheap and I was hunting for a "cheaper than Bose" backup pair of portable earphones years ago, think I got 'em at Best Buy.


----------



## viatraco

ClieOS said:


> Wait, just saw this - are we talking about **** BK2 here? I remember when I got mine (when first launch) it was about $43 (around RMB300) on the official Taobao store and now it actually goes down slightly to about US$39 (RMB270), not to mention it was much cheaper on some Ali. store I think any Ali seller that listed it over $40 or so are probably just looking to rip people off. Also, my BK2 definitely doesn't sound shouty or unpleasent - it is warm and smooth overall, and very easy going sound signature that is not too bad even for the $40 price tag, even if it is not a particular giant killer at that price point. For the $26 or so price tag right now at Ali, I'll say it is actually quite a good choice for anyone who are looking for a relaxing sound.. Make me wonder if we are even talking about the same earbud here.



Well...for me most dissapointment earbuds I've ever had (in terms of price). I bought used from a friend. Was genuine and not defective...just I don't like their sound signature. I am very sensitive for high frequencies


----------



## ClieOS

viatraco said:


> Well...for me most dissapointment earbuds I've ever had (in terms of price). I bought used from a friend. Was genuine and not defective...just I don't like their sound signature. I am very sensitive for high frequencies



As far as I know there isn't any reversion of BK2 that has a different sound. Mine has a fairly smooth treble that seems to be quite the opposite to what you have described. I am actually using donut foam with it and won't mind the treble to be just a little crispier than it is now.


----------



## waynes world

What? No activity since yesterday? Are buds dead or something??? C'mon people, let's hear some bud-talk! 

p.s. I got nothing lol


----------



## HungryPanda

BK2's in my ears and listening to Pendragon, lovely


----------



## ValSilva (May 18, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> BK2's in my ears and listening to Pendragon, lovely



These guys are on Bandcamp, cool!!! I'll listen too.


----------



## subwoof3r

For those interested I stripped wires of my defective stock ST-10 cable (instead of throwing it), here is how it looks :



Looks to be very cheap basic/common OFC wires. I really hoped Smabat would at least purpose silver plated wires for its ST-10, as it really deserve it.
Althought using stock cable will not make them sound bad, I really suggest to use a much better MMCX cable to really see how well drivers performs.


----------



## mbwilson111

subwoof3r said:


> For those interested I stripped wires of my defective stock ST-10 cable (instead of throwing it), here is how it looks :
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I personally tend to prefer copper cables. I am happy with the stock cable on my ST-10  I assume mine is not one of the defective ones as I have not had any sound cut out.  I do remember I had to push really hard to click the connectors into place.  It kind of scared me.  I hope that was the correct thing to do.  I really prefer 2 pin or even fixed cables to MMCX.   MMCX seems so fragile to me.

Thanks for the photo.  It looks like it is now ready for use with a re-cabling project with another bud


----------



## Otto Motor

Now what to do with all this?


----------



## mbwilson111

Otto Motor said:


> Now what to do with all this?



Buy more earbuds.


----------



## assassin10000

mbwilson111 said:


> I personally tend to prefer copper cables. I am happy with the stock cable on my ST-10  I assume mine is not one of the defective ones as I have not had any sound cut out.  I do remember I had to push really hard to click the connectors into place.  It kind of scared me.  I hope that was the correct thing to do.  I really prefer 2 pin or even fixed cables to MMCX.   MMCX seems so fragile to me.
> 
> Thanks for the photo.  It looks like it is now ready for use with a re-cabling project with another bud



My cable was super easy to connect and remove. By far the easiest of all mmcx that I've ever dealt with.


----------



## seanc6441 (May 18, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> For those interested I stripped wires of my defective stock ST-10 cable (instead of throwing it), here is how it looks :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol just throw any SPC on there and it will sound better? Don't think that's how it works.

Surely quality/gauge of the copper and proper shielding is more important than some super thin cheap silver alloy coated copper cable. Because there's no chance these sub $200 chi fi are using expensive high purity silver on their stock cables.

The st-10 cable may look cheap but saying any old spc cable will be an improvement is really speculative. You'd have to compare them at the very least.


----------



## subwoof3r

seanc6441 said:


> Lol just throw any SPC on there and it will sound better? Don't think that's how it works.
> 
> Surely quality/gauge of the copper and proper shielding is more important than some super thin cheap silver alloy coated copper cable. Because there's no chance these sub $200 chi fi are using expensive silver on their stock cables.
> 
> The st-10 cable may look cheap but saying any old spc cable will be an improvement is really speculative. You'd have to compare them at the very least.



Given the number of quality cables I have, I think I am well placed to say that yes I see a big difference in sound between and basic OFC and my yet best 7N pure OCC copper (for exemple).
It helps ST10 sounding their best. I would not recommend using stock cable (unless no other alternative) just for that reason.
I recently migrated my yet best 150 ohm MX500 mod to a basic OFC cable and it sounded so dull compared as my MMCX shell mod. So yeah, definitely, there is a difference (and by far). 

lol, so to you all sub $200 chi fi cables are not using silver at all? that just made my day.. sorry 
Feel free to say this kind of sentence into "_Low end. Cheap. Generic. Otherwise bang for buck cable thread_", am sure you'll have a lot of friend after that ^^


----------



## Otto Motor

mbwilson111 said:


> Buy more earbuds.


That colourful stuff I’d like to eat.


----------



## Eagle_Driver (May 18, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Buy more earbuds.


I am taking this as sarcasm. 

By the way, I am now no longer recommending earbuds or IEMs at all if hearing preservation is important: These devices actually produce sound pressure levels (SPLs) of 7 to 9 dBA higher than over-the-ear headphones at the same perceived level of loudness because the in-ears have drivers that sit far closer to the eardrums than the drivers in over-ear headphones do.

And because of this, you'd be tempted to turn down the volume so low that you can't hear anything out of the earbuds or IEMs (or more specifically, the ambient noises from outside the earphones completely overpowers whatever sound coming out of the earbuds themselves).


----------



## Otto Motor

.


----------



## seanc6441 (May 18, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> Given the number of quality cables I have, I think I am well placed to say that yes I see a big difference in sound between and basic OFC and my yet best 7N pure OCC copper (for exemple).
> It helps ST10 sounding their best. I would not recommend using stock cable (unless no other alternative) just for that reason.
> I recently migrated my yet best 150 ohm MX500 mod to a basic OFC cable and it sounded so dull compared as my MMCX shell mod. So yeah, definitely, there is a difference (and by far).
> 
> ...


That's not what I said. You suggested that SPC is superior to copper outright when you said this


subwoof3r said:


> would at least purpose silver plated wires for its ST-10, as it really deserve it.



And I'm saying that the quality of the wire is what determines a good cable right? So being OFC/OCC/SPC is surely not the deciding factor for sound quality.

You know many high end headphones use OFC cables right? The quality of the metal and shielding is surely more important than the mix of copper/silver alone.

And as for cheap SPC cables that usually come stock with some earbuds. Yes it may be silver, no it's probably not high purity silver. I'm guessing it's silver/tin alloy or a low grade silver. These earbuds cost like $2-3 to make amd you think they are giving you expensive precious metal? It's business so of course they will source cheap cable matierial for stock cables

Until you physically check each cables matierial how can you know the quality of each wire? You are just assuming it's high quality because it's branded 'SPC'?

As for sound it's completely subjective, some prefer copper, some SPC, some pure silver. Others hear no difference.

My point is, saying "they should have used SPC" is abit misleading because the quality of the cable isn't determined by the matierial marketing name...


----------



## seanc6441

subwoof3r said:


> Given the number of quality cables I have, I think I am well placed to say that yes I see a big difference in sound between and basic OFC and my yet best 7N pure OCC copper (for exemple).
> It helps ST10 sounding their best. I would not recommend using stock cable (unless no other alternative) just for that reason.
> I recently migrated my yet best 150 ohm MX500 mod to a basic OFC cable and it sounded so dull compared as my MMCX shell mod. So yeah, definitely, there is a difference (and by far).
> 
> ...


I'm sure there are plenty of premium copper cables out there too. Are they all useless because they are not 'SPC'?

A marketing term like SPC/OFC/OCC does not equal quality because it doesn't mean much in terms of actual cable specs.

That was my point.


----------



## Edric Li (May 18, 2019)

This probably has been discussed by many, but I just wanna share that my MX985 sounds better than ever with double foam. The highs are tamed, resulting in a more forward upper bass. Overall a more classy sound. More suitable for outdoor listening.


----------



## artpiggo

Have this been noticed yet?


----------



## ClieOS

Eagle_Driver said:


> ...
> By the way, I am now no longer recommending earbuds or IEMs at all if hearing preservation is important: *These devices actually produce sound pressure levels (SPLs) of 7 to 9 dBA higher than over-the-ear headphones at the same perceived level of loudness because the in-ears have drivers that sit far closer to the eardrums than the drivers in over-ear headphones do.*
> 
> And because of this, you'd be tempted to turn down the volume so low that you can't hear anything out of the earbuds or IEMs (or more specifically, the ambient noises from outside the earphones completely overpowers whatever sound coming out of the earbuds themselves).



How do you come to that conclusion?


----------



## ClieOS

artpiggo said:


> Have this been noticed yet?



It hasn't been officially released yet.


----------



## assassin10000 (May 19, 2019)

Tried my hand at a review of the ST-10:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/review/22085/


Also I received my replacement ST-10 with the updated cable and mmcx connectors (my left side was failing). Here's a few close-up's showing the improved design:

The old cable ends were split 4-ways and allowed too much lateral movement which would eventually spread the earbud center pin, leading to poor connection and/or eventual breakage. The new cable ends are solid and have a sharper center pin point.



The new earbud mmcx end is now encased in the plastic that normally only holds the base of the center pin. This will prevent over spreading of the earbud center pin and eventual loss of contact or breakage.




This is a big improvement and I don't foresee any future issues. Smabat really stepped up quickly and did a good job. Smabat and VS Audio Store have had excellent customer service. At this time I wouldn't hesitate in dealing with either.


----------



## Eagle_Driver (May 19, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> How do you come to that conclusion?


I read medical reports of permanent and complete hearing loss at an extremely young age. Researchers discovered that on average, for any given apparent loudness these tiny thingamajigs produce SPLs as much as 7 to 9 dB higher (at eardrum level) than over-the-ear headphones. There may not yet be enough proof now, but the evidence is growing.

Even worse, cheaper earphones generally require cranking up the volume even more than expensive ones just to sound decent.

By the way, I now no longer wear any in-ear phones outdoors because I need to be aware of outside noises. And just wearing one bud in one ear while leaving the other bud dangling in front of me has become too cumbersome to manage.

As a matter of fact, there is really no headphone or earphone that's suitable for outdoor use: All of them can, and do, lull the user into inattention in such a circumstance. And if the ambient traffic is loud to begin with, one would have to crank up the volume to dangerous at-eardrum SPL levels regardless of the headphone/earphone type. For smartphone use outdoors, maybe we shall go back to single-eared wireless headsets that only produce sufficient frequency response for speech - the kind that has clearly fallen out of favor these days? The closest stereo headset that's anywhere close to being suitable for outdoor use are those in-ears with a collar that goes behind one's neck. This design minimizes the chance of one bud becoming freely dangled down one's chest or belly - and that's the point where in-ear phones break prematurely beyond repair regardless of how expensive they are.


----------



## subwoof3r

My final *Smabat ST-10* (ST10) review is up !
You can read it *HERE* 
Enjoy


----------



## mbwilson111

Eagle_Driver said:


> I read medical reports of permanent and complete hearing loss at an extremely young age. Researchers discovered that on average, for any given apparent loudness these tiny thingamajigs produce SPLs as much as 7 to 9 dB higher (at eardrum level) than over-the-ear headphones. There may not yet be enough proof now, but the evidence is growing.
> 
> Even worse, cheaper earphones generally require cranking up the volume even more than expensive ones just to sound decent.
> 
> ...




Are you actually talking about earbuds or are you referring to in-ear earphones (IEMs).   Earbuds are not particularly isolating.  This thread is about earbuds.


----------



## Eagle_Driver

mbwilson111 said:


> Are you actually talking about earbuds or are you referring to in-ear earphones (IEMs).   Earbuds are not particularly isolating.  This thread is about earbuds.


I am talking about all in-ear 'phones regardless of isolation level.


----------



## mbwilson111

Eagle_Driver said:


> I am talking about all in-ear 'phones regardless of isolation level.


 
But earbuds are not exactly in-ear.  They do not enter the ear canal.

Anyway I listen to everything at lower volume than most.  I am also older than most users in here and my hearing is stlll very good, which is why I can listen at lower volume (when I compare the number settings on identical equipment) and yet not feel as though I am listening too quietly nor missing out on anything.

Obviously we should all be cautious and use common sense.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

mbwilson111 said:


> But earbuds are not exactly in-ear.  They do not enter the ear canal.
> 
> Anyway I listen to everything at lower volume than most.  I am also older than most users in here and my hearing is stlll very good, which is why I can listen at lower volume (when I compare the number settings on identical equipment) and yet not feel as though I am listening too quietly nor missing out on anything.
> 
> Obviously we should all be cautious and use common sense.


Another important precaution is related with time listening to music. Last week I felt an small difference in my left ear and I decided to give my ear some rest. We need to give our ears some rest too.


----------



## ClieOS (May 19, 2019)

Eagle_Driver said:


> ...



Most of what you are saying is really about bad user habit and not actually about whether a specific type of earphone / headphone being physiologically more dangerous or not. For example - good IEM can provide almost 30dB of noise isolation, that means cutting out 30dB ambient noise and therefore you don't need to listen to the IEM with nearly as loud a volume as, said an full sized headphone or open earbuds (which generally only going to provide 10+dB of noise isolation). With lower SPL, you have lower chance of damaging your hearing. The problem is not whether IEM is inherently more dangerous or not, but it is all about using the right type of headphone in the right environment with the right habit and awareness, based on the right knowledge. As far as my own PoV goes - if a person is in an environment that (s)he really needs to pay attention to the surrounding, then (s)he should NOT have used any type of headphone at all.


----------



## seanc6441 (May 19, 2019)

[


Eagle_Driver said:


> I read medical reports of permanent and complete hearing loss at an extremely young age. Researchers discovered that on average, for any given apparent loudness these tiny thingamajigs produce SPLs as much as 7 to 9 dB higher (at eardrum level) than over-the-ear headphones. There may not yet be enough proof now, but the evidence is growing.
> 
> Even worse, cheaper earphones generally require cranking up the volume even more than expensive ones just to sound decent.
> 
> ...


I think the main issue here is listening too loudly, of which I've been a culprit myself in the past and have suffered the consequences as I now have tinnitus.

Listening to earbuds and open headphones (non isolating earbuds not IEMs) in loud enviroments is crazy I agree, it can be very damaging because of the noise level you need to reacg to clearly hear the music in these situations.

About the effects of earbuds/iems vs headphones. I think it definitely needs more research. Surely the varying levels of seal has a big effect.

But again the real issue is there's a lack of awareness amoung youths that loud volumes is really damaging. Once we start to inform people about this and describe the effects it should help raise awareness.

Most kids and even many adults have no idea how damaging it can be. And once you start listening loud your brain builds a tolerance to it, then its only a matter of tine before your ears give out.

So yeah I completely agree with the sentiment but I dont think its just earbuds and IEMs. Listening too loudly with headphones would cause damage too if your reach too high a decebil level.


----------



## seanc6441 (May 19, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> Most of what you are saying is really about bad user habit and not actually about whether a specific type of earphone / headphone being physiologically more dangerous or not. For example - good IEM can provide almost 30dB of noise isolation, that means cutting out 30dB ambient noise and therefore you don't need to listen to the IEM with nearly as loud a volume as, said an full sized headphone or open earbuds (which generally only going to provide 10+dB of noise isolation). With lower SPL, you have lower chance of damaging your hearing. The problem is not whether IEM is inherently more dangerous or not, but it is all about using the right type of headphone in the right environment with the right habit and awareness, based on the right knowledge. As far as my own PoV goes - if a person is in an environment that (s)he really needs to pay attention to the surrounding, then (s)he should NOT have used any type of headphone at all.


I agree with this but many people are severly under-educated when it comes to hearing health and potential damage, especially our youth.

It's potentially a very big issue in todays society where nearly everybody uses some form of earbud or headphone and yet doesn't really understand the potential health risk.

There should be more awareness campaigns, especially in schools or local health centres/general practices.


----------



## GREQ

Eagle_Driver said:


> Even worse, cheaper earphones generally require cranking up the volume even more than expensive ones just to sound decent.


In my experience, no such audio product exists that behaves this way.
If it's bad. It's bad. Louder just means it's bad but louder.


----------



## mbwilson111

GREQ said:


> In my experience, no such audio product exists that behaves this way.
> If it's bad. It's bad. Louder just means it's bad but louder.



Yes, actually if it sounds  bad I would need to turn it down to avoid harshness... although if it is bad I would not be using it anyway 

Also I do not agree with the assumption that cheaper means bad sound.  I think most of us in this thread are well aware of that.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> I agree with this but many people are severly under-educated when it comes to hearing health and potential damage, especially our youth.
> 
> It's potentially a very big issue in todays society where nearly everybody uses some form of earbud or headphone and yet doesn't really understand the potential health risk.
> 
> There should be more awareness campaigns, especially in schools or local health centres/general practices.



I think a huge issue is people going to concerts or clubs and not wearing hearing protection. That seems to be a nice fast track to hearing loss.


----------



## TheoS53

mbwilson111 said:


> Also I do not agree with the assumption that cheaper means bad sound.  I think most of us in this thread are well aware of that.



Too true. 

It's one of those things that intuitively feels like it *should* be true, but we've got enough examples of some lower priced items sounding better than some more expensive ones to conclude that there's no reliable way of using price as an indicator of quality/performance.


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> I think a huge issue is people going to concerts or clubs and not wearing hearing protection. That seems to be a nice fast track to hearing loss.



i use iems with no music playing as an earplug, i always wear it when riding, even when going to noisy public places like malls, etc. 
for band practices and louder places i use those Etymotic hearing protection, and been doing so since college

the weird thing is i can distinguish speeches and sound better with noise blockers on, because it reduces the chaotic noises and let me focus on important sounds better


----------



## ClieOS

Never leave home without one of them.


----------



## GREQ

So, yesterday I dug out a set of very old, bad (low-fi) *"Bigsos"* (which of course can't be anything other than a shortening of "big sausage") earbuds that I've had in storage for over 10 years because I somehow only just realised they look almost identical to those old pink and blue JVC buds mentioned a while ago.
These buds sound mostly 'full', warm, mushy and dull. Not a completely terrible sound, there were some redeeming qualities, but clearly the drivers were not resolving a good amount detail.

To make the most of the situation, I did a driver transplant (driver and damping) from some Vido'esque buds into these shells.
(I posted these Red no-brand buds a couple of weeks ago. Basically the same price and sound as a Vido.)

Original Red no-brand measurement: (for reference)





Original Bigsos VS The brand new "Big Sausage" earbud... (name is WIP)







In case anyone had any doubts, the bud housing has a very strong effect on the tuning of the driver, and this proves it.

Currently using the only thin/coarse foams I have, as they do wonders at taming mid-bass thickness.
Final result is a quite warm sound, so it can add a lot of thickness or full-bodied sound to thinly mastered rock music and maybe some chamber/classical.
I'm quite enjoying it for very-low volume, fatigue-free listening.... no extreme treble or sub-bass.
I would compare it most with the ANN200, which is more focused on vocals and clarity, and doesn't sound as 'full', but a little more snappy.
I may try adding some more damping, or try different materials to see if it's possible to smooth out the mid-bass, which can be little too much for some songs/genres.


Just to show the original drivers + rubber 'covers' that actually were holding the drivers in place.
I'm more curious about those old Victors now, since the mesh and acoustic lens on these drivers look identical to each other. 






Maybe there are more of these clone buds/shells out there in the wild... just maybe... maybe bundled with portables radios...
I'm not sure anyone finds this useful or interesting, but it's something a bit different for the modders.


----------



## Jsingh4

ClieOS said:


> don't have any fit issue with mine, though I reckon it is probably not the best for small ears.


How come it says only 14mm driver.


----------



## Jsingh4

This also looks like a good fit on a small ear


----------



## ClieOS (May 20, 2019)

Jsingh4 said:


> How come it says only 14mm driver.



Good for you if you find it to fit your ears - I have said it _PROBABLY_ not the best for small ears because the back chamber / housing is large and could press again your outer ears / antihelix at certain angle if your ears are small and make it uncomfortable in the long run. But no two persons have the exact same shape of ears (well, unless you are identical twins) so fit is always a personal thing.


----------



## Jsingh4

ClieOS said:


> Good for you if you find it to fit your ears - I have said it _PROBABLY_ not the best for small ears because the back chamber / housing is large and could press again your outer ears / antihelix at certain angle if your ears are small and make it uncomfortable in the long run. But no two persons have the exact same shape of ears (well, unless you are identical twins) so fit is always a personal thing.


Thanks for explaining.


----------



## Edric Li (May 20, 2019)

How do people bring lower mids more forward by modding/adding foams?

I was able to bring down everything above 200Hz using 3 layers of foams on my KSC35, resulting in a boosted midbass and upperbass. But really what I am trying the bring down is everything above about 500Hz, so that I can get a more forward lower mids, resulting in a warmer vocal.

Can someone summarize vaguely how different shapes of foams (e.g. entire foam vs donut foam vs foam w/ small holes) affect the frequency response? How does the size of the hole in the donut affect the sound? A related question would be: is lower frequency produced at the center of or at the perimeter of the dynamic driver? Appreciate the help.


----------



## nick n

GREQ said:


> So, yesterday I dug out a set of very old, bad (low-fi) *"Bigsos"* (which of course can't be anything other than a shortening of "big sausage") earbuds that I've had in storage for over 10 years because I somehow only just realised they look almost identical to those old pink and blue JVC buds mentioned a while ago.
> These buds sound mostly 'full', warm, mushy and dull. Not a completely terrible sound, there were some redeeming qualities, but clearly the drivers were not resolving a good amount detail.
> 
> To make the most of the situation, I did a driver transplant (driver and damping) from some Vido'esque buds into these shells.
> (I posted these Red no-brand buds a couple of weeks ago. Basically the same price and sound as a Vido.)


I think maybe Master Wayne might have one of those shelled  with a Vido driver showing up when I get the supplies.
Thanks for the interesting info and find


----------



## waynes world

nick n said:


> I think maybe Master Wayne might have one of those shelled  with a Vido driver showing up when I get the supplies.
> Thanks for the interesting info and find



Master Wayne says Alllllll Right!


----------



## wskl

Received my Smabat ST-10 today, very nice indeed with my iBasso DX120.  Thanks to ClieOS for recommending these, his No.2 choice for classical music which is what I mostly listen to.  Soundstage, separation, layering are all excellent, very good details I can pretty much hear everything in the recording without it sounding over analytical.  The stock foams are a little porous, not as thin as VE foams but I found them to be a bit thin sounding in the lower mids, changing to the Trig Rain foams were a better match as they are a little thicker.  Also very comfortable, I only listened to them for 1 hour so far.


----------



## Jsingh4

Is there any reference like bud with a smaller driver,
Unfortunately Mx500 is not for me. ☹️


----------



## ClieOS

Santa just dropped by to say hello.


----------



## chaiyuta

Hi everyone,

It's pretty quite a long long time, I haven't look up this thread. Any new flagship earbuds update?


----------



## subwoof3r

Gave a critical listening to my second pair of *ST-10* (after burning it for few days 24/7) and I finally found a slight difference.
I much prefer my first batch, as the second tends to have a bit more forwarded mids (which makes them sound more like EBX), and soundstage is a bit less large.
Other than that, bass area remains almost the exact same, and details too.


----------



## blati (May 21, 2019)

chaiyuta said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> It's pretty quite a long long time, I haven't look up this thread. Any new flagship earbuds update?



The left is Ucotech ES-P1.

It is very beautiful!!!


----------



## seanc6441 (May 21, 2019)

Edric Li said:


> How do people bring lower mids more forward by modding/adding foams?
> 
> I was able to bring down everything above 200Hz using 3 layers of foams on my KSC35, resulting in a boosted midbass and upperbass. But really what I am trying the bring down is everything above about 500Hz, so that I can get a more forward lower mids, resulting in a warmer vocal.
> 
> Can someone summarize vaguely how different shapes of foams (e.g. entire foam vs donut foam vs foam w/ small holes) affect the frequency response? How does the size of the hole in the donut affect the sound? A related question would be: is lower frequency produced at the center of or at the perimeter of the dynamic driver? Appreciate the help.


Less foams/thinner foams! You want the driver closer to the ear to get a fuller sound between 200-800hz in my opinion. Use thin or no foam and tune the driver  back ports and/or shell venting to get a warmer tonality.

Of course, some drivers are just dipped in that region too much. Look for an earbud with full low mids if all else fails.


----------



## chaiyuta

@blati : Yes Yes, From what UCOTECH staff said, I am the first buyer (fully paid) outside korea, hehe. Sorry for my poor picture. I plan to buy a new smartphone to take a better photos.


----------



## viatraco

assassin10000 said:


> Tried my hand at a review of the ST-10:
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/review/22085/
> 
> 
> ...



Where can I buy cable with connectors like in new ST-10. All mmcx that I ordered from Ali have crappy plug like in old ST-10 cable.


----------



## assassin10000

viatraco said:


> Where can I buy cable with connectors like in new ST-10. All mmcx that I ordered from Ali have ****ty plug like in old ST-10 cable.



Maybe take a look through this thread/links?
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...uck-cable-thread.891911/page-19#post-14637360

Check the pictures of the ends. I think some of the nicehck cables have good connectors. My old shure se215 cable and my westone um pro 10 'epic' cable both have similar solid style ends.


I bought this cable as the one that came with my Ourart ACG was bad. After getting the first and liking it I bought a spare:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hig...-2pin-or-Weston-W4R-U16-UE18/32953041901.html

Instead of a 4-way split and loose fit, it has a 2-way split and fit is good. This is because it is spread open for more tension and holds pretty well. Has more resistance to rotation than my old shure or current westone cables.


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 21, 2019)

Another nice batch of buds arrived from Jakarta today   3 for me and 3 for @HungryPanda .  His are the FAREAL Original Batch (I already have one),  the Dunu and one of the Moondrop(in the tin). 

I have a Moondrop,  a second ANN200 (this time with the copper cable) and finally, the poor lost orange Kube that was ordered in January, made it to the UK and for some reason got sent back to Jakarta to eventually be delivered to the seller.  He included it in the box as it was already paid for long ago.   I put orange foams on it and put it in an orange case

I was so happy when I opened the box and there it was right on top.  That funny little yellow zippered case came with the ANN inside.  Kind of a tight fit so I plan to use it for something else.


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> Another nice batch of buds arrived from Jakarta today   3 for me and 3 for @HungryPanda .  His are the FAREAL Original Batch (I already have one),  the Dunu and one of the Moondrop(in the tin).
> 
> I have a Moondrop,  a second ANN200 (this time with the copper cable) and finally, the poor lost orange Kube that was ordering in January, made it to the UK and for some reason got sent back to Jakarta to eventually be delivered to the seller.  He included it in the box as it was already paid for long ago.   I put orange foams on it and put it in an orange case
> 
> I was so happy when I opened the box and there it was right on top.  That funny little yellow zippered case came with the ANN inside.  Kind of a tight fit so I plan to use it for something else.


Relentless!......How come you got the angry-faced ANN200 yellow case!!??


----------



## Marcos Fontana

mbwilson111 said:


> Another nice batch of buds arrived from Jakarta today   3 for me and 3 for @HungryPanda .  His are the FAREAL Original Batch (I already have one),  the Dunu and one of the Moondrop(in the tin).
> 
> I have a Moondrop,  a second ANN200 (this time with the copper cable) and finally, the poor lost orange Kube that was ordering in January, made it to the UK and for some reason got sent back to Jakarta to eventually be delivered to the seller.  He included it in the box as it was already paid for long ago.   I put orange foams on it and put it in an orange case
> 
> I was so happy when I opened the box and there it was right on top.  That funny little yellow zippered case came with the ANN inside.  Kind of a tight fit so I plan to use it for something else.


Did you test the dn-e10? Did you like it?


----------



## HungryPanda

I have used the DN-E10 for a couple of tracks, sound good. Spent the rest of the day listening to Beyer Dynamic DT770 pro and DT990 pro


----------



## HungryPanda

I also got a pack of the new Fengru LCK1410 16mm drivers and 2 packs of different 15.4mm drivers so a project is in the pipeline


----------



## mbwilson111

activatorfly said:


> Relentless!......How come you got the angry-faced ANN200 yellow case!!??



I don't know. Is there a happy one?  That is what the ANN was packed in.  My first ANN was in a normal square black case.

Cute isn't it?


----------



## mbwilson111

Marcos Fontana said:


> Did you test the dn-e10? Did you like it?



The DN-E10 has a J cable. I don't plan to try it...have enough of my own.


----------



## nick n

My second ANN shipment had these


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> Another nice batch of buds arrived from Jakarta today   3 for me and 3 for @HungryPanda .  His are the FAREAL Original Batch (I already have one),  the Dunu and one of the Moondrop(in the tin).
> 
> I have a Moondrop,  a second ANN200 (this time with the copper cable) and finally, the poor lost orange Kube that was ordered in January, made it to the UK and for some reason got sent back to Jakarta to eventually be delivered to the seller.  He included it in the box as it was already paid for long ago.   I put orange foams on it and put it in an orange case
> 
> I was so happy when I opened the box and there it was right on top.  That funny little yellow zippered case came with the ANN inside.  Kind of a tight fit so I plan to use it for something else.



Awesome! I hope you like your copper ANN as much as I do!


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> I don't know. Is there a happy one?  That is what the ANN was packed in.  My first ANN was in a normal square black case.
> 
> Cute isn't it?


Yes!...however there's always a cuter happy version! lol......


----------



## ClieOS

ISN Audio Rambo
Kube v1
Planar Earbud One / PE1 (see this)
Samsung EG920
Elibuds Sabia V6


----------



## mbwilson111

nick n said:


> My second ANN shipment had these





activatorfly said:


> Yes!...however there's always a cuter happy version! lol......




I like mine best1


----------



## subwoof3r

ClieOS said:


> ISN Audio Rambo
> Kube v1
> Planar Earbud One / PE1 (see this)
> Samsung EG920
> Elibuds Sabia V6



The plug/jack on the Kube V1 is just hilarious


----------



## mbwilson111

subwoof3r said:


> The plug/jack on the Kube V1 is just hilarious



Hey it works.

I mentioned to the seller that we were considering re-cabling our white Kube V1s and he said to be careful opening them that they are more difficult than most. Probably glued and they are very old.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Hey it works.
> 
> I mentioned to the seller that we were considering re-cabling our white Kube V1s and he said to be careful opening them that they are more difficult than most. Probably glued and they are very old.


I opened mine, you pretty much need to force a small flat head screwdriver at multiple positions to loosen the hold from the glue. The cover may get damaged opening it but maybe if your careful you can do it without much damage.


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> I opened mine, you pretty much need to force a small flat head screwdriver at multiple positions to loosen the hold from the glue. The cover may get damaged opening it but maybe if your careful you can do it without much damage.



he suggested using a drop of hexan... whatever that is...


----------



## HungryPanda

or maybe the old Grado hairdryer trick


----------



## ClieOS

Beautiful, but with piezoelectrical driver (which general are not good at producing mid~low range) and a price tag >$665, I am not too sure.


----------



## GREQ

ClieOS said:


> Beautiful, but with piezoelectrical driver (which general are not good at producing mid~low range) and a price tag >$665, I am not too sure.


Might sound good with vintage speaker amps with good current bias


----------



## theresanarc

Looking to buy my first pair of PK shell earbuds since the Yuin PK3s years ago which weren't very good compared to stuff that's been released since for less. I'd spend up to like $30 (I also wanna get the Toneking ROS1s which cost another $30 cos I'm interested in that small diameter shell). Any recs? I listen to rock/indie/alternative mostly. Prefer clarity at a lower volume, don't need anything too warm or too bassy.


----------



## Jsingh4

So anyone know about these

https://aliexpress.com/item/3294936...&terminal_id=ef339e4763184ea2a35d841be01c2773


----------



## ClieOS

Jsingh4 said:


> So anyone know about these..



It is a Yuin PK1 clone, not that anyone has ever successfully cloned PK1 before. If you want PK1, easier just to buy the real one.


----------



## HungryPanda

Just received Chitty's DIY Docomo earbuds (black cable no mic) and they are rather good indeed

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-PK2-earphone-16ohms-32ohms/32237685233.html


----------



## Jsingh4

HungryPanda said:


> Just received Chitty's DIY Docomo earbuds (black cable no mic) and they are rather good indeed
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-PK2-earphone-16ohms-32ohms/32237685233.html


Actually I want to try pk shell so how would you compare them to the others like DW Panda and others and also with Linsould BLD150 or SR16


----------



## HungryPanda

they are not pk shells they are named incorrectly these are Docomo shells, I think he has used a pk2 driver though


----------



## Willber

Jsingh4 said:


> Actually I want to try pk shell so how would you compare them to the others like DW Panda and others and also with Linsould BLD150 or SR16


If by SR16 you mean SR2 16Ω then you should get them. Great 3D soundstage with superb separation, imaging and layering. In the top three of all my phones (see my sig) including some costing $200. I got the red-cable version:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/diy...ohms-32ohms-150ohms-TPE-wire/32801646835.html


----------



## Jsingh4

Willber said:


> If by SR16 you mean SR2 16Ω then you should get them. Great 3D soundstage with superb separation, imaging and layering. In the top three of all my phones (see my sig) including some costing $200. I got the red-cable version:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/diy...ohms-32ohms-150ohms-TPE-wire/32801646835.html


Wow thanks so much and yes that's what I meant SR 2 16ohm


----------



## Willber (May 24, 2019)

Jsingh4 said:


> Wow thanks so much and yes that's what I meant SR 2 16ohm


I first saw them when @jogawag recommended them and compared them favourably to the Simphonio Dragon 2+ (SWD2+ - $300)*. I doubt they are as good as them good but they are fantastic value.

(* Apologies @jogawag if I misremembered this.)


----------



## mbwilson111

Jsingh4 said:


> Wow thanks so much and yes that's what I meant SR 2 16ohm



There are three different drivers used with that PK2 shell in that listing.   The 16 ohm is a SR 2 driver.  The 32 Ohm is a PK2 driver and the 150 ohm is a "PK1" driver.   They all have different sound signatures but all are good.  Someone else will come along to explain the differences


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> I first saw them when @jogawag recommended them and compared them favourably to the Simphonio Dragon 2+ (SWD2+ - $300)*. I doubt they are as good as them good but they are fantastic value.
> 
> (* Apologies @jogawag if I misremembered this.)




You are remembering correctly.  He is the reason I first bought the SR2 16 ohm.     I do not have the other two, 32 and 150 ohm, from that store but I do have ones that my husband @HungryPanda made using the drivers from that store.  All are great.


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> There are three different drivers used with that PK2 shell in that listing.   The 16 ohm is a SR 2 driver.  The 32 Ohm is a PK2 driver and the 150 ohm is a "PK1" driver.   They all have different sound signatures but all are good.  Someone else will come along to explain the differences


I chose the 16 ohm because the seller confirmed they were best for soundstage. I haven't tried the others yet and haven't seen many (any?) reviews of them.


----------



## Jsingh4

mbwilson111 said:


> You are remembering correctly.  He is the reason I first bought the SR2 16 ohm.     I do not have the other two, 32 and 150 ohm, from that store but I do have ones that my husband @HungryPanda made using the drivers from that store.  All are great.


And what about SR2 PRO


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I commissioned Keme Wong to make me a pair of MMCX Vido earbuds. The second set is uses clear housings with Vido drivers in it, for a different look.

Also, pictured is the custom DIY Cable Keme Makes.

Red Phoenix MMCX Cable:
- Hand Woven Copper Litz Cable
- Enameled Copper Strands
- MPS 3.5mm Jack
- Premium Silver Solder

The result of the modded Vido and the custom cable basically is like a regular Vido, but on steroids.  Everything is just amplified and clean up throughout the whole range.  I could not be happier.  

For me, I was lucky to find someone who could do this in the USA.  I would love to do it myself, but I do not have the time and more importantly the skills to pull this off.  


A few photos I took:































--


----------



## mbwilson111

Jsingh4 said:


> And what about SR2 PRO



Isn't that the same thing?  I have seen it referred to both ways.


----------



## mbwilson111

@Jsingh4 I bought my SR2 16 ohm from a different seller... not the Chitty Store.  The cable was so stiff that I asked my husband to recable it.   Later,  he bought the SR2 16 ohm with the black cable from the Chitty Store and the cable is much  more flexible.  So be careful... maybe just stick with Chitty.

I have pictures of  my recabled one in this thread somewhere.


----------



## Jsingh4

mbwilson111 said:


> Isn't that the same thing?  I have seen it referred to both ways.


Yes infact you are right.



mbwilson111 said:


> @Jsingh4 I bought my SR2 16 ohm from a different seller... not the Chitty Store.  The cable was so stiff that I asked my husband to recable it.   Later,  he bought the SR2 16 ohm with the black cable from the Chitty Store and the cable is much  more flexible.  So be careful... maybe just stick with Chitty.
> 
> I have pictures of  my recabled one in this thread somewhere.


Thanks I will get it from Chitty, also does the cable color mean anything


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 24, 2019)

Jsingh4 said:


> Yes infact you are right.
> 
> 
> Thanks I will get it from Chitty, also does the cable color mean anything



Some of the cable colors are with the other ohm drivers... 32 or 150... just make sure that if you want the 16 ohm choose an option that says 16ohm.


----------



## fairx (May 24, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> Just received Chitty's DIY Docomo earbuds (black cable no mic) and they are rather good indeed
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-PK2-earphone-16ohms-32ohms/32237685233.html


 I wonder if its the same as the one that wong kuan wee modded? How do you describe the sound?

The docomo that I own sound relaxing and very musical although short on extension on both end. Perfect when naked.


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> Just received Chitty's DIY Docomo earbuds (black cable no mic) and they are rather good indeed
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-PK2-earphone-16ohms-32ohms/32237685233.html



This is a review from there (probably someone from here as well!):


> WOW! Just WOW! These are AMAZING earbuds! First, this is a Docomo earbud and not a PK2, description aside, the quality of the build and sound are fantastic. The sub-bass is about as good as you will ever hear for an earbud. Highs are also very good and crisp. Though, those looking for forward mids to enjoy vocals, might want to look elsewhere. The cable is very nice with the pink and white, though it does have a bit of microphonics. That said, I am so happy with my purchase. Also, the shipping to the Chicago area in America was SUPER fast. I was surprised to see how quickly it got to me. Overall, this is a wonderful earbud and my favorite for listening to tracks with big bass. 13 May 2019 11:14



Would you concur with those sentiments?


----------



## HungryPanda

Yes on aliexpress my comment started with "wow"


----------



## waynes world (May 24, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> Yes on aliexpress my comment started with "wow"



I think what you're saying is that the comment was yours (and it's the only comment there, so it must be!).

In that case, I'd say that the chances that you concur with that comment are pretty good lol!

Thanks 

Edit: correction - it was BloodyPenguins comments.


----------



## waynes world

jogawag said:


> Use Donuts Foam if you want to thicken the mid-bass, use Full Foam if you want to thicken the overall sound, and use Full Foam + Donuts Foam if you want to thicken the mid-bass even more.
> I like the last way.



I've never done that before, but am trying it now with the RW9's (surprised it wasn't as hard to do as I thought it would be).

Damn that mid bass! No one would ever accuse the RW9's of sounding thin after hearing this lol. And even though the bass and mid-bass becomes beastlike, it doesn't seem to be interfering with the mids very much. Nice tip!


----------



## Willber

HungryPanda said:


> Yes on aliexpress my comment started with "wow"


Um, Chicago? Kent?


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 24, 2019)

waynes world said:


> This is a review from there (probably someone from here as well!):
> 
> 
> Would you concur with those sentiments?





waynes world said:


> I think what you're saying is that the comment was yours (and it's the only comment there, so it must be!).
> 
> In that case, I'd say that the chances that you concur with that comment are pretty good lol!
> 
> Thanks





Willber said:


> Um, Chicago? Kent?



I am pretty sure that comment on aliexpress was from @BloodyPenguin .  It is the same as what he wrote in the EA group on FB. and includes the same photos.    Now I think I need a pair with that pink cable      Panda has the black cabled one.

I have another bud that uses that Docomo shell.  It is my Blur Black Panther.  Very comfortable shell

...and yeah, Chicago is not in Kent


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> I am pretty sure that comment on aliexpress was from @BloodyPenguin .  It is the same as what he wrote in the EA group on FB. and includes the same photos.


That makes sense. Here is one of his trademark pictures on there:






I wonder what happened to AngryPanda's review?


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> That makes sense. Here is one of his trademark pictures on there:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The bud only arrived today just before Panda left for work for the weekend... so maybe if he already wrote a review he only said WOW?  I know he acknowledged delivery.  Maybe comments take time to appear?   So now he is AngryPanda?  Do you know something that I don't? lol

Penguin sure takes beautiful photos.  No wonder I always end up wanting the buds that he photographs.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

mbwilson111 said:


> Penguin sure takes beautiful photos.  No wonder I always end up wanting the buds that he photographs.



Ha!  Sorry... and Thanks?


----------



## waynes world

Willber said:


> That makes sense. Here is one of his trademark pictures on there:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, nice photo. Very nice budkeh!


----------



## HungryPanda

I  only wrote a short sentence and added a photograph so the first post is certainly not mine


----------



## davakhrs

Hey, I'm looking for earbuds under 14$ with good detail, soundstage, and separation. Got any recommendations? Thanks


----------



## Willber

davakhrs said:


> Hey, I'm looking for earbuds under 14$ with good detail, soundstage, and separation. Got any recommendations? Thanks


Have a look at this:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2813#post-14971198


----------



## ClieOS

Now I heard what all the fuss is all about.


----------



## nick n

^ Donut foams sound better


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 25, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> Now I heard what all the fuss is all about.





nick n said:


> ^ Donut foams sound better



At least remove the funky colored foams that the ANN arrived with!  I changed mine to a normal grey on my copper cabled pair and black on my black cabled pair

ANN N-200





I normally cannot use donuts as they never stay in place for me but I have finally been forced to with the Dunu Alpha 1.  @HungryPanda and I each bought a pair when someone mentioned them recently.  We had to... they were £29 on Amazon UK.  There were only three available.  I wonder who bought the third one that night... or maybe it was the next day, but it was gone. They were sold by Hifiheadphones which is a good UK  audio company fulfilled by Amazon.  There is one now for that price but it is a newly launched seller with no feedback.

Neither of us was able to use any of the wings and rings.   Just donuts.  I need to figure out where to cut an opening in a full foam so I can have it stay on more securely.  I have to try to maneuver the donut back into place each time I wear it.  They are borderline too big for my ears.  But.... the SOUND!

In this photo you can see how one of the donuts has shifted... and this is AFTER I have tried to fix it.

Dunu Alpha 1


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> I normally cannot use donuts as they never stay in place for me but I have finally been forced to with the Dunu Alpha 1.  @HungryPanda and I each bought a pair when someone mentioned them recently.


That was me.


mbwilson111 said:


> They are borderline too big for my ears.  But.... the SOUND!


What do you think?


----------



## theresanarc

Are those SR 2 16ohm's with the straight jack okay to buy or is it just the curved jack which is good? I was looking for a bargain earbud to try in a PK shell so they seem like a good fit.


----------



## Willber

theresanarc said:


> Are those SR 2 16ohm's with the straight jack okay to buy or is it just the curved jack which is good? I was looking for a bargain earbud to try in a PK shell so they seem like a good fit.


I doubt the shape of the plug will make a difference to the sound. FWIW I have the straight plug with red cable and they are great.


----------



## Jsingh4

Willber said:


> I doubt the shape of the plug will make a difference to the sound. FWIW I have the straight plug with red cable and they are great.


I ordered mine with Red cable too.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> That was me.
> 
> What do you think?



I remember you saying that you had a strange pulsing sound on some tracks with your Dunu Alpha 1 but I have not heard that.  Could you suggest a track for me to listen to so I can try to hear what you are talking about?  I still am within the return window with these so I would like to know if there is a problem.  They have been sounding great to me but I have not spent a lot of time with them.   I did burn them in for a few days though.

Too many others to listen to like the Indonesian buds that arrived the other day.   Really liking the Moondrop Shiro-Yuki... can listen for hours.


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> I remember you saying that you had a strange pulsing sound on some tracks with your Dunu Alpha 1 but I have not heard that.  Could you suggest a track for me to listen to so I can try to hear what you are talking about?  I still am within the return window with these so I would like to know if there is a problem.  They have been sounding great to me but I have not spent a lot of time with them.   I did burn them in for a few days though.


Ah, when you wrote "But.... the SOUND!" I assumed there was something specific (good or bad) that you thought about them.

I'll try to identify a track that causes mine problems.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> Ah, when you wrote "But.... the SOUND!" I assumed there was something specific (good or bad) that you thought about them.
> 
> I'll try to identify a track that causes mine problems.



I meant AWESOME!


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> I meant AWESOME!


Good! For many tracks I feel the same.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> Good! For many tracks I feel the same.



I have just never had a different feeling with different tracks for any bud.  I actually listen to whole albums and it would be very strange if one song in the album sounded bad while the others were good.  Anyway all of my music is Flac and I always listen to full albums unless someone or something  interrupts me.


----------



## Willber (May 25, 2019)

Willber said:


> I'll try to identify a track that causes mine problems.


This isn't the worst I've heard, but where there are concurrent voices/bass/drums/other things going on at the same time (check at about 4.00 minutes) the different elements seem to rise and fall in volume as though they are competing against each other somehow. Difficult to explain. It doesn't happen with my other buds.


----------



## rkw

mbwilson111 said:


> @HungryPanda and I each bought a pair when someone mentioned them recently.  We had to... they were £29 on Amazon UK.


You *had* to.


----------



## TheoS53

By the way guys and gals....Sony sent me their A55 player a few days ago...wow I'm liking this thing. The ClearAudio+ effect is especially fantastic with earbuds and my HD58X.....makes all other players and DACs I've heard sound so flat and uninteresting. I know this notion goes against anything and everything to do with audio purity, but damn it's an enjoyable DSP effect.


----------



## ShabtabQ

What are the current king of price to performance earbuds around 50$


----------



## mbwilson111

ShabtabQ said:


> What are the current king of price to performance earbuds around 50$



I don't think there is one answer to that.  What do you already have?  What do you like or dislike about them?  What type of shell fits you?  What type of music do you listen to and what do you use as a source?  Phone?  DAP?


----------



## ShabtabQ (May 25, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I don't think there is one answer to that.  What do you already have?  What do you like or dislike about them?  What type of shell fits you?  What type of music do you listen to and what do you use as a source?  Phone?  DAP?


Have the EB2, RY4S UE and PT15, I use my phone mostly and sometimes Fiio Q1 mkii, I don't really have a specific listening genre, Daft Punk, Pop Bollywood stuff, Vocals and Instrumentals are what I listen to mostly, I have the TinAudio T2 which I just love, heard the NiceHCK P3 which sounded terrible to me, so definately not a basshead.

I'm either looking to buy an IEM or an Earbud whichever I find more promising, having the T2 already I don't see any upgrades now on IEM's and whatever there is are too costly for me, was looking into TRN X6 but can't find enough reviews about it, then there is **** with mixed opinion and reviews so kinda confused, so that's it.


----------



## Willber

ShabtabQ said:


> Have the EB2, RY4S UE and PT15


I'll echo one of @mbwilson111's questions - what do you like/dislike about those three? There are fans on here of all of them but knowing your thoughts will help people provide alternative suggestions.


----------



## silverfishla

ShabtabQ said:


> Have the EB2, RY4S UE and PT15, I use my phone mostly and sometimes Fiio Q1 mkii, I don't really have a specific listening genre, Daft Punk, Pop Bollywood stuff, Vocals and Instrumentals are what I listen to mostly, I have the TinAudio T2 which I just love, heard the NiceHCK P3 which sounded terrible to me, so definately not a basshead.
> 
> I'm either looking to buy an IEM or an Earbud whichever I find more promising, having the T2 already I don't see any upgrades now on IEM's and whatever there is are too costly for me, was looking into TRN X6 but can't find enough reviews about it, then there is **** with mixed opinion and reviews so kinda confused, so that's it.


To me, there is not an earbud that I’ve tried that competes with the iem ****.  Form factor is the decision to go with an earbud or if you need to be cognizant of your surroundings.  Not to say that earbuds don’t sound great (because they can), but you’d have to go to the top tiers to get something as satisfying (for me) as the ****.  Mind you, **** is an anomaly considering it’s price.  A real winner for the price.


----------



## mbwilson111

ShabtabQ said:


> heard the NiceHCK P3 which sounded terrible to me, so definately not a basshead



I will need to have another listen to my P3.  I don't remember it being particularly bassy but I always keep changing tips on iems until I find the combination that makes it work for me.  They are not bright though so maybe you prefer more brightness.


----------



## ShabtabQ

Willber said:


> I'll echo one of @mbwilson111's questions - what do you like/dislike about those three? There are fans on here of all of them but knowing your thoughts will help people provide alternative suggestions.



EB2>PT15>RY4S,


Willber said:


> I'll echo one of @mbwilson111's questions - what do you like/dislike about those three? There are fans on here of all of them but knowing your thoughts will help people provide alternative suggestions.



I like the EB2 most because that sounds most balanced earbud that I have, then PT15 and lastly the RY4S not that I don't like it but I like the others more.


----------



## ShabtabQ

mbwilson111 said:


> I will need to have another listen to my P3.  I don't remember it being particularly bassy but I always keep changing tips on iems until I find the combination that makes it work for me.  They are not bright though so maybe you prefer more brightness.



My friends pair does have kinda sibilance which I don't like, and bassy too, just doesn't sound natural to me.


----------



## mbwilson111

ShabtabQ said:


> My friends pair does have kinda sibilance which I don't like, and bassy too, just doesn't sound natural to me.



Mine is more mid focused.  Nice vocals.   

I think you might like the Moondrop Shiro-Yuki.  I bought mine from the Indonesian seller that many of us have bought from but I think his are sold.  I saw another seller on there.  There may be other shops.


----------



## ShabtabQ

silverfishla said:


> To me, there is not an earbud that I’ve tried that competes with the iem ****.  Form factor is the decision to go with an earbud or if you need to be cognizant of your surroundings.  Not to say that earbuds don’t sound great (because they can), but you’d have to go to the top tiers to get something as satisfying (for me) as the ****.  Mind you, **** is an anomaly considering it’s price.  A real winner for the price.



Will definitely give it a shot if you're saying it's that good, but I've seen people on reddit saying it's just overhyped and not that good sounding, someone even crushed it and said it's crap, I was gonna buy but then I stopped when I read all that, then the X6 also came so thought to wait for the reviews.


----------



## ShabtabQ

mbwilson111 said:


> Mine is more mid focused.  Nice vocals.
> 
> I think you might like the Moondrop Shiro-Yuki.  I bought mine from the Indonesian seller that many of us have bought from but I think his are sold.  I saw another seller on there.  There may be other shops.



Found one and only one on Ali, and they look flawless, haven't heard anything about them before, how is it compared to the recent praised SR2.


----------



## mbwilson111

ShabtabQ said:


> Will definitely give it a shot if you're saying it's that good, but I've seen people on reddit saying it's just overhyped and not that good sounding, someone even crushed it and said it's crap, I was gonna buy but then I stopped when I read all that, then the X6 also came so thought to wait for the reviews.



My husband has the D6 but I have not bothered to try it.  I have a few others that have the piezo driver that I like alraady.   I just received the X6 a few days ago.  My husband had ordered it for himself but could not get a proper fit so now it is mine.  I really like it but there are others who do not.  I think when the opinions differ so widely that it could be down to fit issues.   I had to use Auvio tips on mine and not everyone has access to those.

More and more I am enjoying buds more than iems.  I am tired of dealing with the tips... earbuds are just easier and I like not being so isolated. I prefer to know what is going on around me.  Also, I  have found a few buds that sound more like headphones to me.  Not sure I would say the same about iems.


----------



## mbwilson111

ShabtabQ said:


> Found one and only one on Ali, and they look flawless, haven't heard anything about them before, how is it compared to the recent praised SR2.



I am not good at answering questions like that.  For the price you could get them both and tell us the answer


----------



## ShabtabQ

mbwilson111 said:


> My husband has the D6 but I have not bothered to try it.  I have a few others that have the piezo driver that I like alraady.   I just received the X6 a few days ago.  My husband had ordered it for himself but could not get a proper fit so now it is mine.  I really like it but there are others who do not.  I think when the opinions differ so widely that it could be down to fit issues.   I had to use Auvio tips on mine and not everyone has access to those.
> 
> More and more I am enjoying buds more than iems.  I am tired of dealing with the tips... earbuds are just easier and I like not being so isolated. I prefer to know what is going on around me.  Also, I  have found a few buds that sound more like headphones to me.  Not sure I would say the same about iems.




Yes I read your feedback about X6 and that's what made me consider it in the first place, TRN says it's flat tuned, I'm waiting for Bad Guy Good Audio Reviews to review it as he did unboxing and all, why don't you give **** a listen and share your thoughts about it.


----------



## ShabtabQ

mbwilson111 said:


> I am not good at answering questions like that.  For the price you could get them both and tell us the answer



I think I'll just get these two earbuds and **** itself all will be around 50$ and I'll get enough time to play with these till I save more for later buys.


----------



## mbwilson111

ShabtabQ said:


> Yes I read your feedback about X6 and that's what made me consider it in the first place, TRN says it's flat tuned, I'm waiting for Bad Guy Good Audio Reviews to review it as he did unboxing and all, why don't you give **** a listen and share your thoughts about it.



Take a look at my list and you will see why I don't feel like bothering to try it.   I would have to remove the tips that he is using and then maybe try four or five different ones and end up with sore ears in the process.  I only do that with ones of his that I am hoping he will give to me.


----------



## mbwilson111

ShabtabQ said:


> I think I'll just get these two earbuds and **** itself all will be around 50$ and I'll get enough time to play with these till I save more for later buys.



Getting new toys is fun:}


----------



## ShabtabQ

mbwilson111 said:


> Take a look at my list and you will see why I don't feel like bothering to try it.   I would have to remove the tips that he is using and then maybe try four or five different ones and end up with sore ears in the process.  I only do that with ones of his that I am hoping he will give to me.




And then there is my friend and every other people I know who basically can listen (actually blast to the point where I start to wonder how are their eardrums still intact) to anyone elses used IEM without even wiping the tips, guess Indians are immune, hahaha.


----------



## ShabtabQ

@mbwilson111 Thank you so much for your suggestions.


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 26, 2019)

ShabtabQ said:


> And then there is my friend and every other people I know who basically can listen (actually blast to the point where I start to wonder how are their eardrums still intact) to anyone elses used IEM without even wiping the tips, guess Indians are immune, hahaha.



The main reason I can't use his tips is because he uses large and I use medium.  I worry about people who are listening too loud, whether it be at a concert or from turning up the volume with iems or buds... or headphones.. or speakers.  You want to still have your hearing when you are old like me


----------



## Willber

ShabtabQ said:


> EB2>PT15>RY4S,
> 
> I like the EB2 most because that sounds most balanced earbud that I have, then PT15 and lastly the RY4S not that I don't like it but I like the others more.


If you like the EB2 then I recommend the SR2 16Ω. It has a fairly neutral signature with great clarity and a natural warmth. The soundstage is wider and deeper than the EB2. The imaging and layering are superb with a real sense of space while retaining a sense of intimacy, and for vocals and acoustic music they are perfect for me. Don't be fooled by the cheap price - I have many phones that are more expensive but nowhere near as good.


----------



## ShabtabQ

Willber said:


> If you like the EB2 then I recommend the SR2 16Ω. It has a fairly neutral signature with great clarity and a natural warmth. The soundstage is wider and deeper than the EB2. The imaging and layering are superb with a real sense of space while retaining a sense of intimacy, and for vocals and acoustic music they are perfect for me. Don't be fooled by the cheap price - I have many phones that are more expensive but nowhere near as good.



It's on my cart already, the cable looks cheap, which cable is better?


----------



## Willber

ShabtabQ said:


> It's on my cart already, the cable looks cheap, which cable is better?


I chose the red one. It is thin but good quality, flexible and tangle-free.


----------



## cqtek

Hello, here I leave you my review of the precious and brilliant Ourart ACG. The treblemen are in congratulations.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ourart-acg.23536/reviews#review-22119

On the other hand, I received the other day the SR2 16 Ohms with red wire, but I don't see that its sound is for throwing rockets.
I see that it suffers from the same as many earbuds with PK capsules.


----------



## Willber

ShabtabQ said:


> It's on my cart already, the cable looks cheap, which cable is better?


BTW, if you're filling an AE cart and have some spare change then get these:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Brand-Go-pro-Accessories-Projector-Monopod-Croons-Tingo-Tg-38s-Earbud-Earphones-Pk-Mx985-A8/32687542028.html

It will save you buying the Kube, RW9, Sabia and Snow Lotus because these are better IMO and ridiculously good for the price. They are great all-rounders and are in my top three favourites.


----------



## ShabtabQ

Willber said:


> BTW, if you're filling an AE cart and have some spare change then get these:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Brand-Go-pro-Accessories-Projector-Monopod-Croons-Tingo-Tg-38s-Earbud-Earphones-Pk-Mx985-A8/32687542028.html
> 
> It will save you buying the Kube, RW9, Sabia and Snow Lotus because these are better IMO and ridiculously good for the price. They are great all-rounders and are in my top three favourites.



Those Fengru Silver? I infact was checking if I could buy these too but the problem is that they are charging too much for delivery, more than what the earbud costs itself.


----------



## Willber

ShabtabQ said:


> Those Fengru Silver? I infact was checking if I could buy these too but the problem is that they are charging too much for delivery, more than what the earbud costs itself.


Yes, they are the Fengru Silver under a different name (I have both). I don't know where you are but they are free delivery to the UK.


----------



## mbwilson111

ShabtabQ said:


> Those Fengru Silver? I infact was checking if I could buy these too but the problem is that they are charging too much for delivery, more than what the earbud costs itself.



That's a shame...I see it is free shipping to the UK.   My husband has those and I remember him saying how good they are... but he also has  the Kube, and the Sabia and the Snow Lotus... I don't know if he would say they are better or not.   We all hear things differently anyway. He is away working this weekend but he might pop in here and say something.  I doubt he has them all at work with him though.  I never listened to the Silver.  There are way too  many buds and iems in this house.  I hope we are not starting you down a similar path...


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> That's a shame...I see it is free shipping to the UK.   My husband has those and I remember him saying how good they are... but he also has  the Kube, and the Sabia and the Snow Lotus... I don't know if he would say they are better or not.   We all hear things differently anyway. He is away working this weekend but he might pop in here and say something.  I doubt he has them all at work with him though.  I never listened to the Silver.  There are way too  many buds and iems in this house.  I hope we are not starting you down a similar path...


I think your hubby got the more expensive Silvers that I first got. I then found the new ones that looked the same for $4.99. We agreed that they were likely to be the same and we were both right!


----------



## ShabtabQ

@Willber

From India and most sellers have free delivery except Fengru earbuds, NiceHCK and VE Clan.

@mbwilson111

And it's ones own decision on what to buy and what not to buy and personal opinions if it's a waste of money or not, for me it's like my hobby I don't really listen to music that often but when I do I enjoy a lot and just by looking at audio gears I feel happy, it's something that I like to collect, I don't earn and all right now so basically whatever money I save I like to gift myself audio gears.


----------



## sareer007

How does the fengru silver compare to diy sr2 in terms of staging, seperation and imaging ?
Btw I have diy sr2 and I like it a lot


----------



## Willber

sareer007 said:


> How does the fengru silver compare to diy sr2 in terms of staging, seperation and imaging ?
> Btw I have diy sr2 and I like it a lot


The Silver has a slightly wider soundstage and a 'bigger' sound while the SR2 has greater depth and air. SR2 has better separation and imaging, but not by a huge amount. I would say they overlap each other by about 90% in most areas. Both are great.


----------



## sareer007

What about the vocals ? The only thing I find somewhat lacking in sr2 is vocal clarity. Everything else is almost perfect for music and even better for movies and stuff like that.


----------



## Willber (May 25, 2019)

sareer007 said:


> What about the vocals ? The only thing I find somewhat lacking in sr2 is vocal clarity. Everything else is almost perfect for music and even better for movies and stuff like that.


I think the SR2 is excellent for vocals. The Silver has similar tonality but they are less forward. It is a bit more v-shaped.
Having said that, I use EQ to accentuate the mids on all my buds.

BTW, on the original store where I got them for $7.88 they are now $4.50:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FENGRU-DIY-Tingo-TC200-Earbud-Earphone-HiFi-Noise-Cancelling-EarBuds-Flat-Head-earphone-Pk-Mx985-Hifi/32976559582.html

Crazy!


----------



## waynes world

silverfishla said:


> To me, there is not an earbud that I’ve tried that competes with the iem ****.  Form factor is the decision to go with an earbud or if you need to be cognizant of your surroundings.  Not to say that earbuds don’t sound great (because they can), but you’d have to go to the top tiers to get something as satisfying (for me) as the ****.  Mind you, **** is an anomaly considering it’s price.  A real winner for the price.



Your hype is strong. Although I don't really do IEMs anymore, they are 50% off or $18US which is within spontaneous purchase zone, and all of the reviews there seem very positive. My problem is that it seems that any cheap IEM I get, I invariably don't like. Maybe these ones are different... 



ShabtabQ said:


> Will definitely give it a shot if you're saying it's that good, but I've seen people on reddit saying it's just overhyped and not that good sounding, someone even crushed it and said it's crap, I was gonna buy but then I stopped when I read all that, then the X6 also came so thought to wait for the reviews.



Hype crusher lol! 



mbwilson111 said:


> Take a look at my list and you will see why I don't feel like bothering to try it.   I would have to remove the tips that he is using and then maybe try four or five different ones and end up with sore ears in the process.  I only do that with ones of his that I am hoping he will give to me.



The world is counting on you!


----------



## FastAndClean

ShabtabQ said:


> Will definitely give it a shot if you're saying it's that good, but I've seen people on reddit saying it's just overhyped and not that good sounding, someone even crushed it and said it's crap, I was gonna buy but then I stopped when I read all that, then the X6 also came so thought to wait for the reviews.


**** is better than TRN X6, i have both


----------



## Willber

IEM alert!


----------



## snip3r77

Black vido is SICK!



BloodyPenguin said:


> I commissioned Keme Wong to make me a pair of MMCX Vido earbuds. The second set is uses clear housings with Vido drivers in it, for a different look.
> 
> Also, pictured is the custom DIY Cable Keme Makes.
> 
> ...


----------



## basketballTaco (May 26, 2019)

Dear earbud friends, could you please recommend me an earbud close to the Rose Masya. I bought them a couple years ago and they are my only expensive earbud. I think the quality is excellent but my ears now find it hard to handle the high energy and forwardness of this earbud. I find myself limiting the volume because of this. The qualities I still find excellent are the soundstage of course, and the clarity, and great treble extension. I would like an alternate earbud that may keep those qualities, though with a more relaxed sound and same or slightly stronger low end. Surely, very few can match the soundstage, but I hope there will be no major gap in that area. Anything 100 USD or below I will be happy to look at. Oh and it would be great to see earbuds with detachable cable options if possible. Thank you.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have rose maysa and would recommend the Toneking T400s


----------



## mbwilson111

basketballTaco said:


> Dear earbud friends, could you please recommend me an earbud close to the Rose Masya. I bought them a couple years ago and they are my only expensive earbud. I think the quality is excellent but my ears now find it hard to handle the high energy and forwardness of this earbud. I find myself limiting the volume because of this. The qualities I still find excellent are the soundstage of course, and the clarity, and great treble extension. I would like an alternate earbud that may keep those qualities, though with a more relaxed sound and same or slightly stronger low end. Surely, very few can match the soundstage, but I hope there will be no major gap in that area. Anything 100 USD or below I will be happy to look at. Oh and it would be great to see earbuds with detachable cable options if possible. Thank you.





HungryPanda said:


> I have rose maysa and would recommend the Toneking T400s



I should listen to those sometime if they are meant to be relaxing.  I remember wishing they were mine when you got them because they look cool   The name is actuallyToneking TO400s right?

@basketballTaco if you do a search on aliexpress you will find several listings.  The least expensive one seems to be a sale price... $71


----------



## darmanastartes

The Smabat ST-10 arrived yesterday and I'm really impressed. 
I don't own any other high-end/flagship earbuds, so I can only compare them to theNicehck EB2, QianYun Qian69 and VE Monk Espresso, and from what I've read in this thread earbuds don't scale in price the way IEMs do.
That said these are head and shoulders above the other three pairs in terms of separation, clarity, and bass extension. Full review to follow.


----------



## fairx

All talk about **** made me wonder if there's anybody owns both **** and smabat care to compare the resolution on both. Just the resolution part though. TIA


----------



## fairx (May 26, 2019)

Double post.


----------



## rkw

basketballTaco said:


> Dear earbud friends, could you please recommend me an earbud close to the Rose Masya. I bought them a couple years ago and they are my only expensive earbud. I think the quality is excellent but my ears now find it hard to handle the high energy and forwardness of this earbud. I find myself limiting the volume because of this. The qualities I still find excellent are the soundstage of course, and the clarity, and great treble extension. I would like an alternate earbud that may keep those qualities, though with a more relaxed sound and same or slightly stronger low end. Surely, very few can match the soundstage, but I hope there will be no major gap in that area. Anything 100 USD or below I will be happy to look at. Oh and it would be great to see earbuds with detachable cable options if possible. Thank you.





HungryPanda said:


> I have rose maysa and would recommend the Toneking T400s


I have the TO400 but not Rose Masya. I and some others feel the TO400 to have bright character and weak bass. People who have compared TO200 and TO600 seem to like those better.


----------



## DBaldock9 (May 26, 2019)

Just finished assembling a set of earbuds, for a co-worker, for whose sons I had previously assembled 15.4mm earbuds.
She felt the MX500 shells were too large for her ears, so this set is PK sized.
(The foams and case are from one of the sets of earbuds that I've ordered.)
.


.
I've placed this 14.8mm driver -
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Car...ne-unit-Bass-good-elasticity/32448930452.html
.
- in this PK shell -
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY...d-hole-Cotton-has-been-posted/2046553820.html
.
- and used this Mic/Control cable -
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tia...-X3-Earphone-3-5mm-Male-to-2/32834725227.html
.
Connected them to my iFi Micro iDSD, and listened to some music (16-Bit/44.1-KHz & 24-Bit/192-KHz) from my PC.
They sound really good to me, and I think my co-worker will like them, too.


----------



## DBaldock9

While I was soldering things, I decided to go ahead and install a 2.5mm TRRS plug on the cable for my K's K600.
I've got them connected to the Little Bear B4-X (OPA627AU op-amps), with input from my PC, via the FiiO Taishan D03K (Cirrus 4344) DAC - and they still sound great...


----------



## theresanarc (May 26, 2019)

Anyone recommend some foam covers (not donuts) that will work for the Qian39/EdifierH180 shell, PK2 shell, and MX500 shell? Obviously the same foam wouldn't work for all three so I'm looking for a mixed bag with the standard AE shipping (15-30 days I think). Or multiple bags but from the same seller so I don't have to do separate orders.


----------



## Jsingh4

DBaldock9 said:


> Just finished assembling a set of earbuds, for a co-worker, for whose sons I had previously assembled 15.4mm earbuds.
> She felt the MX500 shells were too large for her ears, so this set is PK sized.
> (The foams and case are from one of the sets of earbuds that I've ordered.)
> .
> ...


Did you also tune them and if yes then how


----------



## DBaldock9

Jsingh4 said:


> Did you also tune them and if yes then how



These drivers already have a thin "Tuning Cotton" installed on the back, over the frame vent holes.
I suppose I could have tried peeling it off, and installing some of the thicker material that I've got - but I didn't want to take a chance of damaging the drivers.
The other type of 14.8mm drivers that I've got (made with Black frames), don't have any "Tuning Cotton" installed, so I can do a bit of experimenting when I use them.


----------



## assassin10000

theresanarc said:


> Anyone recommend some foam covers (not donuts) that will work for the Qian39/EdifierH180 shell, PK2 shell, and MX500 shell? Obviously the same foam wouldn't work for all three so I'm looking for a mixed bag with the standard AE shipping (15-30 days I think). Or multiple bags but from the same seller so I don't have to do separate orders.



Same foams will work on them all. The foams are smaller in dimensions than all those earbud shells before fitting and stretch to fit when installing.




assassin10000 said:


> Here you go:
> 
> Store link:
> https://trigrain518946.aliexpress.com/store/group/Foam-ear-pads/518946_509998943.html
> ...


----------



## mbwilson111

theresanarc said:


> Anyone recommend some foam covers (not donuts) that will work for the Qian39/EdifierH180 shell, PK2 shell, and MX500 shell? Obviously the same foam wouldn't work for all three so I'm looking for a mixed bag with the standard AE shipping (15-30 days I think). Or multiple bags but from the same seller so I don't have to do separate orders.



Like @assassin10000 said,  the same foams do work on all three of the shells that you mentioned and more.  I like the Trig Rain ones best (the ones in his link) because they have a slightly thicker nicer feel to me and they come in many colors.  It is best to gently stretch them a little all the way around before trying to put them on the bud.  Some people can do it quickly.  Takes me between 5 and 20 minutes... lol.   Sometimes I give up and ask for help.


----------



## Willber

theresanarc said:


> Anyone recommend some foam covers (not donuts) that will work for the Qian39/EdifierH180 shell, PK2 shell, and MX500 shell? Obviously the same foam wouldn't work for all three so I'm looking for a mixed bag with the standard AE shipping (15-30 days I think). Or multiple bags but from the same seller so I don't have to do separate orders.


Being pedantic, but the Qian39 and EdifierH180 shells are not the same.
More importantly, as has been said, foams will fit all buds.


----------



## subwoof3r

DBaldock9 said:


> These drivers already have a thin "Tuning Cotton" installed on the back, over the frame vent holes.
> I suppose I could have tried peeling it off, and installing some of the thicker material that I've got - but I didn't want to take a chance of damaging the drivers.


I already tried that in the past, it's very tricky. Have to be extremely meticulous and result is very often disappointing (still some traces of glue, not very beautiful to look after). The problem is that we can't use some kind of dissolvent as drivers are way too close and using thin bezels is dangerous if passing through the holes.
I think best way is to put the cotton and not remove it anymore after that, or buy a new set of drivers (of course, if possible).


----------



## Frederick Wang

fairx said:


> All talk about **** made me wonder if there's anybody owns both **** and smabat care to compare the resolution on both. Just the resolution part though. TIA


I happen to own both, to my ears, **** has better midrange and treble, overall more pleasing to ears, but its bass are somewhat muddy compared to ST10, the later wins on staging/separation hands down. 

But there is one fatal fault with ****, when it's driven by an AMP my ears get electrocuted... 

The problem I have with earbuds in general is that I cannot wear them perfectly, when I use my fingers to get better seal they sound much better to me. 
Seeing no way to get this problem solved, I stopped being picky with earbuds...


----------



## fairx

Frederick Wang said:


> I happen to own both, to my ears, **** has better midrange and treble, overall more pleasing to ears, but its bass are somewhat muddy compared to ST10, the later wins on staging/separation hands down.
> 
> But there is one fatal fault with ****, when it's driven by an AMP my ears get electrocuted...
> 
> ...


Thank you. really appreciate your input .


----------



## RuFrost

This cable (5n upgrade for ti7) is out of stock,but I still want to find it. Does anybody have it for sale? On Penon it is also out of stock.

https://m.ru.aliexpress.com/item/32...per-Silver-plated-MMCX-Earphone-Upgrade-Cable


----------



## RuFrost

Stock cable to blame for such sound from to400s. Get some neutral or warm hybrid cable and you will rediscover those earbuds as a new model))

I owned 2 to200 and it is very balanced,flat actually, but in the end of the day boring. To400s are much for detailed, interesting and has more resolution than to200. Just change the cable)



rkw said:


> I have the TO400 but not Rose Masya. I and some others feel the TO400 to have bright character and weak bass. People who have compared TO200 and TO600 seem to like those better.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

mrxarai said:


> Looking forward to your impressions! I have the BOE (Black Onyx Earbud) and it's great.


I received the BDE today. I have just one word to describe it and is: it's rock! It's awesome. Even better than the Sabia, a lot better just out of box. Everything is great. I got one extra (the last one) on the ebay to have a spare. I also got the ANN100 and the FAAEAL.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/FAAEAL-FAR...m=222995286272&_trksid=p2054502.c100227.m3827

https://www.ebay.com/itm/FAAEAL-FAR...m=222995286272&_trksid=p2054502.c100227.m3827


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Marcos Fontana said:


> I received the BDE today. I have just one word to describe it and is: it's rock! It's awesome. Even better than the Sabia, a lot better just out of box. Everything is great. I got one extra (the last one) on the ebay to have a spare. I also got the ANN100 and the FAAEAL.


Awesome mids, detail and bass extension. Soundstage is big. It sounds better than all my headphones. It sounds very similar with my K600 but with lower impedance. Listening to it in my BL, I can say that is hard to say which one is better. 
Bass: K600 >= BDE
Mids: BDE >= K600
Highs: BDE >= K600
Soundstage: BDE >= K600

Resuming it: a more fun K600 with lower impedance.

I used the >= because I expect changes after some burn in, but it's ****ing good out of the box! (sorry for some words). 

Imense value/sq ratio and addictive!

The only drawback is the cable that is really cheap and just a little better than Vido... The cable is a sin for one earbud so good. I also received the TC200 but is impossible to take the BDE out of my ears to check it...


----------



## mrxarai

Marcos Fontana said:


> Awesome mids, detail and bass extension. Soundstage is big. It sounds better than all my headphones. It sounds very similar with my K600 but with lower impedance. Listening to it in my BL, I can say that is hard to say which one is better.
> Bass: K600 >= BDE
> Mids: BDE >= K600
> Highs: BDE >= K600
> ...



So awesome! I should've nabbed me  one. For whatever it's worth, the BDE seems to have the exact same cable as the BOE. The cable on my BOE is still in good shape after 3+ years of normal use.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Trying the TC200 here. Awesome, but not at the same level of the BDE. A must have also (just $8). Btw, cable is better . The best batch that I received this year so far.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

mrxarai said:


> So awesome! I should've nabbed me  one. For whatever it's worth, the BDE seems to have the exact same cable as the BOE. The cable on my BOE is still in good shape after 3+ years of normal use.


How much did you pay for your BOE? Do you remember? Nice to know that the cable is good after 3 years! I will use it only at home (too good to use in street).


----------



## mrxarai

Marcos Fontana said:


> How much did you pay for your BOE? Do you remember? Nice to know that the cable is good after 3 years! I will use it only at home (too good to use in street).



Hmmmm....I think around $30?Definitely not over $40. I bought a few other earbuds from him at the same time, so I can't remember the price exactly. Sorry!


----------



## Marcos Fontana

mrxarai said:


> Hmmmm....I think around $30?Definitely not over $40. I bought a few other earbuds from him at the same time, so I can't remember the price exactly. Sorry!


Don't worry. I paid $32.


----------



## MelodyMood

ClieOS said:


> There are boats' load of fake Apple iBuds out there, just so everyone knows.


I am particularly talking about the Left one from this image. Does anyone has any link to the left Earbud with Mic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_earbuds#/media/File:IPod_Earbuds.JPG 

Any link on AE or somewhere else?


----------



## wskl

RuFrost said:


> This cable (5n upgrade for ti7) is out of stock,but I still want to find it. Does anybody have it for sale? On Penon it is also out of stock.
> 
> https://m.ru.aliexpress.com/item/32...per-Silver-plated-MMCX-Earphone-Upgrade-Cable



This one:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/OUR...e-Cable-Cord-For-Shure-SE215/32825813493.html


----------



## MelodyMood

Also, is there any change in sound quality or signature in new FiiO EM3 with Mic. As far as I know, they are launched again with some changes cpl of years ago (2018 I guess). Basically, I am looking for some earbud which is not too expensive but have great details and clarity while having warm and smooth sound and not harsh. And Having a Mic is necessary so pls suggest according to that.


----------



## alias71 (May 28, 2019)

I received my Smabat ST-10 replacement few days ago. Jim at NiceHCK provided an excellent support and took care of all the expenses.
Everything works very well now. They fixed the problem with the cable and the MMCX connectors. I moved the connector around a lot while listening to check if I could recreate the problem and I was never able to do it.
I continually used the ST-10 in the past days, only switching them, here and there, with the NiceHCK EBX for comparison.
The EBX sound is very similar to the ST-10, the EBX has a little more balanced sound across the frequency spectrum but the ST-10 has better lower bass.
I mostly listen to Jazz and Progressive Rock and the ST-10 proved to be a great all rounder with these two genres.

I would like to thank ClieOS for recommending it and Jim at NiceHCK for the outstanding support.


----------



## subwoof3r

alias71 said:


> I received my Smabat ST-10 replacement few days ago. Jim at NiceHCK provided an excellent support and took care of all the expenses.
> Everything works very well now. They fixed the problem with the cable and the MMCX connectors. I moved the connector around a lot while listening to check if I could recreate the problem and I was never able to do it.
> I continually used the ST-10 in the past days, only switching them, here and there, with the NiceHCK EBX for comparison.
> The EBX sound is very similar to the ST-10, the EBX has a little more balanced sound across the frequency spectrum but the ST-10 has better lower bass.
> ...




Does your second pair sounds the exact same as your first batch? (just for stats purpose)
My second seems to have very slight more forwarded mids (which is not bad depending on tracks, but I still prefer my first batch for electronic musics)


----------



## itomu (May 31, 2019)

Ah.....K's LBB....
@ClieOS. Thank you for recommending a nice buds.


----------



## mbwilson111

itomu said:


> Ah.....
> @ClieOS. Thank you for recommending a nice buds.



What is that?


----------



## BrunoC

Is that the K's Little Black Bell (LBB) ?


----------



## itomu

mbwilson111 said:


> What is that?





BrunoC said:


> Is that the K's Little Black Bell (LBB) ?



Yes. K's LBB.


----------



## mbwilson111

itomu said:


> Yes. K's LBB.



I actually have the LBB... I did not recognize it without foams


----------



## BrunoC (May 29, 2019)

IMO the LBB is amazing.
Not the usual V-shaped sound.
Top clarity. Great mids and treble with no pierce at all. The bass is controlled but has good quality. Very musical and coherent sound. One of my top earbuds for sure.

Also, very good fit with a thin foam + donut.


----------



## itomu (May 29, 2019)

And Wide Sound Stage.I think it's good choice to first Buds or step up.
Without foams for the pictures.


----------



## subwoof3r

Proud to present you my new little creation 
These are now my new DIY reference 

Still my yet best 150 ohm drivers but with a new high quality copper cable 
Cheers'


----------



## mbwilson111

subwoof3r said:


> Proud to present you my new little creation
> These are now my new DIY reference
> 
> Still my yet best 150 ohm drivers but with a new high quality copper cable
> ...



They look gorgeous!  Nice work.


----------



## rkw

mbwilson111 said:


> What is that?


Exactly. Why do so many people post photos on this thread with no description?


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Totally agree. This is a rule in earbuds anonymous that I find really useful.


----------



## MelodyMood

MelodyMood said:


> Also, is there any change in sound quality or signature in new FiiO EM3 with Mic. As far as I know, they are launched again with some changes cpl of years ago (2018 I guess). Basically, I am looking for some earbud which is not too expensive but have great details and clarity while having warm and smooth sound and not harsh. And Having a Mic is necessary so pls suggest according to that.





MelodyMood said:


> I am particularly talking about the Left one from this image. Does anyone has any link to the left Earbud with Mic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_earbuds#/media/File:IPod_Earbuds.JPG
> 
> Any link on AE or somewhere else?



*Any reply pls? *


----------



## ClieOS

MelodyMood said:


> *Any reply pls? *



Those are the very old of the very old iBud, phased out many many years ago - there is almost no way to find a new one these days， but used one can sometime still be found on Taobao. Do note that early iBud has different suppliers so they might not all sound identical to each others.


----------



## MelodyMood

ClieOS said:


> Those are the very old of the very old iBud, phased out many many years ago - there is almost no way to find a new one these days， but used one can sometime still be found on Taobao. Do note that early iBud has different suppliers so they might not all sound identical to each others.


Ok. Do you have any link from Taobao or somewhere else. Hope you are referring to the left one form the image? But with mic.


----------



## MelodyMood

ClieOS said:


> Those are the very old of the very old iBud, phased out many many years ago - there is almost no way to find a new one these days， but used one can sometime still be found on Taobao. Do note that early iBud has different suppliers so they might not all sound identical to each others.


Also, any idea about FiiO EM3 with mic sound? Is it good, smooth, detailed with warm and good deep bass. At least better than Monk+ in Bass and overall sound?


----------



## assassin10000

@MelodyMood you could try some MMCX buds using a cable with a mic? 

I think there were even some MMCX buds that have a mic cable option. My Ourart ACG came with a mic cable, unfortunately that cable was bad out of the box. If you search for se215 replacement cables there are lots of options or buy something with one (pt15 maybe?).


----------



## ClieOS

MelodyMood said:


> Ok. Do you have any link from Taobao or somewhere else. Hope you are referring to the left one form the image? But with mic.



Without mic, unfortunately.



MelodyMood said:


> Also, any idea about FiiO EM3 with mic sound? Is it good, smooth, detailed with warm and good deep bass. At least better than Monk+ in Bass and overall sound?



They are about the same overall quality to my ears.


----------



## DBaldock9

The M4 x 0.5 tap, to use on the metal shells for the lower profile MMCX jacks, has arrived - and both shells have now been tapped.
Before I installed the jacks in the shells, I soldered some short wires to them.
After screwing the jacks into the shells, and tightening the nuts on the inside - I used some Loctite Ultra Gel Control Super Glue on the jacks & nuts.
Once the glue dries thoroughly, I'll solder on, and install the 600Ω drivers.
.

 
.
 
.
 
.


----------



## MelodyMood

assassin10000 said:


> @MelodyMood you could try some MMCX buds using a cable with a mic?
> 
> I think there were even some MMCX buds that have a mic cable option. My Ourart ACG came with a mic cable, unfortunately that cable was bad out of the box. If you search for se215 replacement cables there are lots of options or buy something with one (pt15 maybe?).


Ok. Is **** PT15 is good? What kind of sound signature it has? And also, how MMCX Earbud makes difference in sound quality? Are they better in terms of sound quality than normal earbuds even  if earbud is having meta shell.
I also saw Ourart ACG. It is expensive actually. I cannot afford that costly earbud. I would even prefer to buy 3 or 4 different earbuds from that money over the period. 

One more thing abt detachable MMCX Buds, will they fit good when you insert and does not simply come out as they are not glued to the cable?


----------



## MelodyMood

ClieOS said:


> Without mic, unfortunately.
> 
> 
> 
> They are about the same overall quality to my ears.


Ok. How abt https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/hisoundaudio-i-modi-2.html


----------



## MelodyMood

MelodyMood said:


> Ok. How abt https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/hisoundaudio-i-modi-2.html


This looks like the right side of apple earbud with mic. But no info on driver size.


----------



## MelodyMood

MelodyMood said:


> This looks like the right side of apple earbud with mic. But no info on driver size.


Found one review: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hisound-i-modi-1-review-compared-to-apple-earbuds.642111/ Sounds like Apple Earbud. But not sure as the reviewer gave 6-8 or 12-14 marks in the review. SO may or may not good sometime


----------



## MelodyMood

Is there any comparison in Remax RM-303, RM-305 and FiiO EM3S? Especially how they stand against TP16 or Monk+?


----------



## MelodyMood

golov17 said:


> https://www.samma3a.com/tech/en/earbud-lovers-fiio-releases-em3k-em3s/#


How are they different from earlier release or version. I guess earlier it was only FiiO EM3. No EM3S or EM3K. Is it only name change to identify the mic and without mic version? Or any change and improvement in sound quality?


----------



## wskl

MelodyMood said:


> How are they different from earlier release or version. I guess earlier it was only FiiO EM3. No EM3S or EM3K. Is it only name change to identify the mic and without mic version? Or any change and improvement in sound quality?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/here-comes-fiio-em3k-em3s-–the-return-of-the-classic.871594/


> we made some changes and now bring the new EM3K / EM3S to you! Compared to the original EM3, the new EM3K / EM3S change to a more appealing design with UV shiny surface finish. Also, the EM3S comes with in-line microphone and remote, while the EM3K doesn't



Probably no change in sound, but you can contact Fiio to find out.


----------



## waynes world

Is it just me, or are the K's 64's really good? Sheesh, $8. I hadn't listened to them in a while, but they're great. I must admit, it makes me interested in (and scared of) their other offerings!


----------



## ClieOS

MelodyMood said:


> How are they different from earlier release or version. I guess earlier it was only FiiO EM3. No EM3S or EM3K. Is it only name change to identify the mic and without mic version? Or any change and improvement in sound quality?



At some point you just have to try it yourself. It is very unlikely for someone who own a EM3 to just buy another EM3K but more likely for them to move on or upgrade. Also some of what you are asking has been previously discussed, try search them out. It will probably be more productive than asking for comparison since many don't actively track this thread but only occasionally come in to comment.


----------



## assassin10000 (May 30, 2019)

MelodyMood said:


> Ok. Is **** PT15 is good? What kind of sound signature it has? And also, how MMCX Earbud makes difference in sound quality? Are they better in terms of sound quality than normal earbuds even  if earbud is having meta shell.
> I also saw Ourart ACG. It is expensive actually. I cannot afford that costly earbud. I would even prefer to buy 3 or 4 different earbuds from that money over the period.
> 
> One more thing abt detachable MMCX Buds, will they fit good when you insert and does not simply come out as they are not glued to the cable?



Search "pt15" at the top and read impressions. I haven't heard the pt15 so I can't help there. I'd look at the more recent ones as they have changed from the 1st version iirc. (EDIT/update: no change in sound despite slight shell revision from multiple rrar vents to single rear, per @ClieOS )

There is also an airpod'ish shaped pt25, I had that one and it was balanced and not cold nor warm iirc. You'd need to add a mic cable to it though.


MMCX is just the type of cable connection. Has no effect on sound. Just allows you to replace/change/upgrade cables. They snap in place using tension rings but will allow rotation/spinning.


Sorry about that. I only mentioned the ACG as an example that came with a mic cable, I should have said it was out of your stated budget.


----------



## ClieOS (May 30, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> Search "pt15" at the top and read impressions. I haven't heard the pt15 so I can't help there. I'd look at the more recent ones as they have changed from the 1st version iirc..



There is never change in sound from the 1st version (multiple vent) to the current 2nd version (one large vent). I asked **** and they replied that they didn't change the sound. I still end up buying both versions over time and they sound identical.

For anyone looking for half in-ear type of earbud with a smooth and warm sound, the YinCrow RW-100 will be an excellent choice.


----------



## golov17 (May 30, 2019)

MelodyMood said:


> Is there any comparison in Remax RM-303, RM-305 and FiiO EM3S? Especially how they stand against TP16 or Monk+?


For me : BOE>rm303>em3s>rm305=Sur

 
Also BOE better than TP16+Monk's


----------



## assassin10000 (May 30, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> There is never change in sound from the 1st version (multiple vent) to the current 2nd version (one large vent). I asked and they replied that they didn't change the sound. I still end up buying both versions over time and they sound identical.



Thanks for the clarification. I was only able to go off prior posts. Updated my prior post.


----------



## Willber (Jun 12, 2019)

Just reminiscing here about a poster called Akash who used to constantly ask questions like "Is it good, smooth, detailed with warm and good deep bass?", "Is it better than Monk+?", "Does it have mic?" They were given lots of recommendations but never actually bought anything, just asked the same sort of questions over and over again for months. I wonder what happened to him/her? I hope they don't come back using a different name. That would put me in a bad *mood *whatever *melody *I was listening to.


----------



## DBaldock9

DBaldock9 said:


> The M4 x 0.5 tap, to use on the metal shells for the lower profile MMCX jacks, has arrived - and both shells have now been tapped.
> Before I installed the jacks in the shells, I soldered some short wires to them.
> After screwing the jacks into the shells, and tightening the nuts on the inside - I used some Loctite Ultra Gel Control Super Glue on the jacks & nuts.
> Once the glue dries thoroughly, I'll solder on, and install the 600Ω drivers.
> ...



Initial impressions of the assembled earbuds (Donut foam over Full foam), connected to my iBasso PB2 Amp (Sparkos SS3602 op-amps) - the 600Ω Beryllium drivers have great clarity & detail in the Treble; and the Bass is "fast" (detailed), and goes really low. I haven't listened to them long enough (with vocals) to say whether the Midrange is "Balanced", or ever so slightly recessed.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Just a shout out to apple here. I personally really like the heigi donuts on them. Midcentric with bass now. Sounds nice.
 
And back in my drawer among lots of castaways, are these Koss things. Lol. Anyone remember these?


----------



## irv003

CasstardPie said:


> Anyone have a BlackBud from Bisoy Siosan? Looks really good! I wanted to get one but he's got a lot of orders so I gotta wait


hey bro, i already stop the production of blackbuds as i have been busy these days. will get back to into making buds maybe soon thank you


----------



## Tweeters

Hi, just wanted to mention I have OURART ACG earbuds for sale here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ourart-acg-earbuds.907859/

$50 shipped from US!


----------



## cyh03176

Hello guys,

In love "again" with my 1st gen NiceHCK DIY Graphene and Yincrow X6. Became curious about all the modding posts here so finally decided to disassemble my earbuds. Found the foams (circled in red in the photo below)in both earbuds covering the vents behind the shell. I was like "What!?" and decided to take them out. The ones in DIY Graphene can be put back if you don't like the new sound signature as it is one whole piece but it is different story for X6 as the foams are stuck to the shell so you have to destroy it to remove it unless you have really delicate hands (no guarantee though because I completely destroyed the foam). Anyway, they are of exactly the same size so maybe you can disassemble a DIY Graphene and put the foam back to the X6 .

Anyway, the sound after this little mod becomes better in my own opinion as the bass becomes more solid and the soundstage really opens up.

However, the sound leaks more now both in and out but who uses earbuds for isolation anyway? In addition, it is considered as an advantage because now I can hold my earbuds and listen from the back of them and the sound is exactly the same!

This post is about my little discovery and I am not encouraging anyone to do this mod. So, any damage to your earbud(s) is not my responsibility.

Thanks for reading.


----------



## cyh03176

Any earbuds under $40 to recommend? I am actually eyeing for TY Hi-Z F150TS and HE150 Pro right now. Anymore recommendation?


----------



## CoiL (May 30, 2019)

Hey earbud fanboys!

Since I have pretty much settled with my desk and portable gear... wanted to know if there is any new "budget king earbud" like ZSN Pro (low budget) and Kanas Pro (low-mid tier) for example in IEM territory?
I currently Have Monk+ and Asura 2.0 - am I good with these or is there something new "must have" that competes within these 2 range?
I really love natural mids of Asura 2.0 but I need to get very good fit with them to enjoy them in contrary to Monk+ that I just throw in ear and they work (V-shaped signature though).
I know it is harder to measure earbuds accurately but something with similar signature (FR graph) as Moondrop Kanas Pro would be nice to have in earbud world too!

Any help or guidewords would be helpful! Thanks in advance!


----------



## Willber (May 31, 2019)

CoiL said:


> Hey earbud fanboys!
> 
> Since I have pretty much settled with my desk and portable gear... wanted to know if there is any new "budget king earbud" like ZSN Pro (low budget) and Kanas Pro (low-mid tier) for example in IEM territory?
> I currently Have Monk+ and Asura 2.0 - am I good with these or is there something new "must have" that competes within these 2 range?
> ...


Hi CoiL, I remember you from my old days on the KZ forum. Welcome to the earbud world!

I'll start things off with a couple of recommendations.

For super-budget, these:
*Fengru Silver*
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Brand-Go-pro-Accessories-Projector-Monopod-Croons-Tingo-Tg-38s-Earbud-Earphones-Pk-Mx985-A8/32687542028.html

Don't laugh. They have a big, spacious sound with solid bass and sparkly highs, and still enough in the mids to provide balance. To me they are like the KSC75 but with more details. Fantastic value and in my top three.

Slightly more, but still budget, these:
*SR2 16ohm*
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/diy-earphone-pk1-pk2-SR2-16ohms-32ohms-150ohms-TPE-wire/32801646835.html

Lovely balanced sound, great 3D soundstage with exceptional imaging and layering. Some have compared them to buds costing hundreds of $$. Also, they have a slightly smaller shell which some prefer. Go for the 16ohm ones. Another of my top three.

Anyway, that's my advice - great sound covering most bases for less than $20 in total.


----------



## tinysocks

I’m looking for earbuds pretty much exactly like the apple earbuds that won't break as much. Needs the microphone/volume control/play&pause controls. Also don't really like when the headphone jack connector is bent or at a 90 degree angle. Any recommendations? Thanks for any help!


----------



## jogawag (May 30, 2019)

tinysocks said:


> I’m looking for earbuds pretty much exactly like the apple earbuds that won't break as much. Needs the microphone/volume control/play&pause controls. Also don't really like when the headphone jack connector is bent or at a 90 degree angle. Any recommendations? Thanks for any help!


You will be able to select and purchase apple earbuds cheaply at the flea market below.
https://www.mercari.com/search/?brandIds=319&facets=2&itemStatuses=1&keyword=apple earbuds&length=30&shippingPayerIds=2&sortBy=3


----------



## cyh03176

tinysocks said:


> I’m looking for earbuds pretty much exactly like the apple earbuds that won't break as much. Needs the microphone/volume control/play&pause controls. Also don't really like when the headphone jack connector is bent or at a 90 degree angle. Any recommendations? Thanks for any help!



well i found 3 models but can't quite satisfy all your needs.

1. MEMT T5 (L-shaped connector, single button controller)
2. **** PT25 (no mic but comes with mmcx connector so you can change the cable that fits your need)
3. Audio Technica ATH-C200iS (L-shaped connector, single button controller)


----------



## theresanarc

MelodyMood said:


> Any comparison between Remax RM-303 Vs FiiO EM3S? Especially how they stand against TP16 or Monk+?



I got the RM-303s recently. Meh, good for the price but nothing special. The volume also seems low (I prefer to listen at lower volumes with no DAC or pre-amp I should add). The fit isn't as good for some reason despite the diameter being small. They're for sure better than FiiO EM3s though which I had a while back and those buds just eventually gave out (not gave out as in one side not working but giving out as in sounding like they're dead and lost their oomph which hasn't happened with any other buds). EM3s always sounded a bit tinny and with a small soundstage from what I remember. The shapes are similar but the sound is better on the RM-303s. I'd say the Monk+, Qian39, Edifier H180s, and those cheap blue Vidos are all better then the RM-303.


----------



## waynes world

CoiL said:


> Hey earbud fanboys!
> 
> Since I have pretty much settled with my desk and portable gear... wanted to know if there is any new "budget king earbud" like ZSN Pro (low budget) and Kanas Pro (low-mid tier) for example in IEM territory?
> I currently Have Monk+ and Asura 2.0 - am I good with these or is there something new "must have" that competes within these 2 range?
> ...



Can't go wrong with any of these:

Kube V1 ($10)
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Earphone-Ea...hash=item3408fb8ef5:m:mLHCLUskfKjMxlhfqPIbwfw

ANN200 ($18)
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Earbud-ANN2...-Classic-Sound-/223530390015?oid=223489031746

Yincrow RW-9 ($17 on sale)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32869530104.html

They are all fantastic.


----------



## assassin10000

@CoiL maybe the ST-10 would be to your liking. Has a slight lower end bass emphasis while still being relatively balanced. The emphasis goes away when I EQ 31 & 62hz -2.0db on my 10-band EQ, YMMV.

Fortunately earbuds prices are in a less wide price bracket and you can get near TOTL (or TOTL) for low-mid IEM $.


----------



## CoiL

assassin10000 said:


> @CoiL maybe the ST-10 would be to your liking. Has a slight lower end bass emphasis while still being relatively balanced. The emphasis goes away when I EQ 31 & 62hz -2.0db on my 10-band EQ, YMMV.
> 
> Fortunately earbuds prices are in a less wide price bracket and you can get near TOTL (or TOTL) for low-mid IEM $.


How would these compare to Asura 2.0 ? Asking cuz they are more expensive ~90$.


Willber said:


> Hi CoiL, I remember you from my old days on the KZ forum. Welcome to the earbud world!
> 
> I'll start things off with a couple of recommendations.
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot! 

Any of these better out or close to Asura 2.0 ? 
And what is Your top 3 nr.1# ?


waynes world said:


> Can't go wrong with any of these:
> 
> Kube V1 ($10)
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Earphone-Ea...hash=item3408fb8ef5:m:mLHCLUskfKjMxlhfqPIbwfw
> ...


Thanks, will  do some research about them.


----------



## assassin10000

CoiL said:


> How would these compare to Asura 2.0 ? Asking cuz they are more expensive ~90$.



I haven't heard the Asura 2.0 so I couldn't say.


----------



## mbwilson111

CoiL said:


> Thanks, will do some research about them.



We have had a few shipments from that Indonesian seller.  He is really good at communicating if you want to message him and tell him about your love of the Kanas Pro, he might have a suggestion.   The Moondrop Shiro-Yuki, which he also has listed, is described as being based onto the Harman curve.

My husband and I both love it.  I have listened for several hours at a time without fatigue.   $8 shipping may seem  high but it is what he has to pay.  He explains on the page The best thing to do is to add a couple of others to the order because that will only add $2 shipping for each when ordered together.  You could get an ANN200, a Kube (fun colors... I have purple, orange, pink, and white) and the Moondrop

from the product page

*New Model From MoonDrop for the Budget Model. *

*Based on the Harman Target Freq Response using the industry standard B&K head tester
Scientific Tuning Brings you an unexpected sound experience

Still maintain moondrop signature. clarity. emphasis on details and focusing on mid/hi freq but not piercing your ears, the bass is there but isn't that deep.

*


----------



## wskl (May 31, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> We have had a few shipments from that Indonesian seller.  He is really good at communicating if you want to message him and tell him about your love of the Kanas Pro, he might have a suggestion.   The Moondrop Shiro-Yuki, which he also has listed, is described as being based onto the Harman curve.
> 
> My husband and I both love it.  I have listened for several hours at a time without fatigue.   $8 shipping may seem  high but it is what he has to pay.  He explains on the page The best thing to do is to add a couple of others to the order because that will only add $2 shipping for each when ordered together.  You could get an ANN200, a Kube (fun colors... I have purple, orange, pink, and white) and the Moondrop
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info, I can actually see it is now being sold on Aliexpress for $13
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Moo...-Earbuds-Line-Type-Earphones/33016218410.html


----------



## CoiL

Ok, unless somebody convinces me other way regarding SQ against Asura 2.0 (if there is point of getting those when A2.0 is better?), I`m going to try out these:
1) MD Shiro-Yuki
2) ANN200
3) Kube V1

Are 2 & 3 also HT curve oriented?


----------



## GREQ

CoiL said:


> Ok, unless somebody convinces me other way regarding SQ against Asura 2.0 (if there is point of getting those when A2.0 is better?), I`m going to try out these:
> 1) MD Shiro-Yuki
> 2) ANN200
> 3) Kube V1
> ...



Kube V1 is closer to HT than ANN200, and ANN200 isn't a 'thin' sounding in the bass as my measurement shows. It depends greatly on the fit and foams.


----------



## itomu

rkw said:


> Exactly. Why do so many people post photos on this thread with no description?





Marcos Fontana said:


> Totally agree. This is a rule in earbuds anonymous that I find really useful.


Sorry. That way from next time. And I fixed it.


----------



## subwoof3r

Selling my *NiceHCK EBX*, if someone is interested


----------



## waynes world

CoiL said:


> Ok, unless somebody convinces me other way regarding SQ against Asura 2.0 (if there is point of getting those when A2.0 is better?), I`m going to try out these:
> 1) MD Shiro-Yuki
> 2) ANN200
> 3) Kube V1
> ...



They are based on the "WW (waynes world) curve", the same curve that likes the Phillips X1 so much lol.

The ones that always make me shake my head (in amazement) when I throw them in are the Kube V1's - very cool surroundstage and pretty impressive bass (and I've only got the boring black ones!). The ANN200's are more traditional sounding, but great (I think I prefer the copper vs silver cable fwiw). Or maybe get the MoonDrop Shiro-Yuki's which @mbwilson111 just sold about sold me on lol.

Having said this, I don't know how the Asura 2.0's sound. I have the beta Asura's, and I find them to be a bit bright and bass light for my preferences, but I suspect the 2.0's are tuned differently.


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> We have had a few shipments from that Indonesian seller.  He is really good at communicating if you want to message him and tell him about your love of the Kanas Pro, he might have a suggestion.   The Moondrop Shiro-Yuki, which he also has listed, is described as being based onto the Harman curve.
> 
> My husband and I both love it.  I have listened for several hours at a time without fatigue.   $8 shipping may seem  high but it is what he has to pay.  He explains on the page The best thing to do is to add a couple of others to the order because that will only add $2 shipping for each when ordered together.  You could get an ANN200, a Kube (fun colors... I have purple, orange, pink, and white) and the Moondrop
> 
> ...



I almost just bought them based on the fact that you and the bear like them, but I am a bit afraid whenever I read "focusing on mid/hi freq but not piercing your ears" lol. I am tempted to get them, but I think that I need a certain amount of bass to keep my ears happy. I suppose I could EQ a bit though. Only $12 (plus I plan on getting something else). Hmmm!


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 31, 2019)

waynes world said:


> I almost just bought them based on the fact that you and the bear like them, but I am a bit afraid whenever I read "focusing on mid/hi freq but not piercing your ears" lol. I am tempted to get them, but I think that I need a certain amount of bass to keep my ears happy. I suppose I could EQ a bit though. Only $12 (plus I plan on getting something else). Hmmm!



What else are you getting this time?   The Aidex? I just realized last night that he had restocked some that had sold out.

Maybe you need an orange Kube in your life?


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> What else are you getting this time?   The Aidex? I just realized last night that he had restocked some that had sold out.



Sabia MMCX. They were sold out, but he's making me one (but, he's been pretty busy, so it might be a while).


----------



## cyh03176

anybody owns the zeva superfire here?


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Sabia MMCX. They were sold out, but he's making me one (but, he's been pretty busy, so it might be a while).



You will have to add a couple of things when those are ready.  At least an orange Kube

The page does say something about holidays until the 10th...so orders will be delayed a bit this time.  I do not need to order anything at the moment...only if he finds some more colors of Kubes... or some other interesting Indonesian bud.

I love my copper colored ANN N-200 too but have not actually compared it to my black cabled one. I don't have the silver.


----------



## CoiL (May 31, 2019)

GREQ said:


> Kube V1 is closer to HT than ANN200, and ANN200 isn't a 'thin' sounding in the bass as my measurement shows. It depends greatly on the fit and foams.


Thanks for graphs! I think I`ll ditch ANN200 from list.


waynes world said:


> They are based on the "WW (waynes world) curve", the same curve that likes the Phillips X1 so much lol.
> 
> The ones that always make me shake my head (in amazement) when I throw them in are the Kube V1's - very cool surroundstage and pretty impressive bass (and I've only got the boring black ones!). The ANN200's are more traditional sounding, but great (I think I prefer the copper vs silver cable fwiw). Or maybe get the MoonDrop Shiro-Yuki's which @mbwilson111 just sold about sold me on lol.
> 
> Having said this, I don't know how the Asura 2.0's sound. I have the beta Asura's, and I find them to be a bit bright and bass light for my preferences, but I suspect the 2.0's are tuned differently.


Asura 2.0 has very natural timbre and mids. I haven`t listened them so much or compared head-to-head with HT curve oriented IEMs but seems they have satisfying quality bass and not bright to my ears.

I think I`ll go with these but as You can see there is room for one more buddy:

1) MD Shiro-Yuki
2) Kube V1
3) ???

Any other recommendations to take place of ANN200?
Yincrow RW-9? NiceHCK DIY Graphene? Yincrow X6? TY Hi-Z F150TS? HE150 Pro? Tingo TC200? 16Ohm pk1/pk2/SR2?

HUH! So many choices in earbud world...



Willber said:


> Slightly more, but still budget, these:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/diy-earphone-pk1-pk2-SR2-16ohms-32ohms-150ohms-TPE-wire/32801646835.html
> 
> Lovely balanced sound, great 3D soundstage with exceptional imaging and layering. Some have compared them to buds costing hundreds of $$. Also, they have a slightly smaller shell which some prefer. *Go for the 16ohm ones*. Another of my top three.


Which one exactly? 16Ohm SR2 or regular 16Ohm?


----------



## mbwilson111

CoiL said:


> Thanks for graphs! I think I`ll ditch ANN200 from list.
> 
> Asura 2.0 has very natural timbre and mids. I haven`t listened them so much or compared head-to-head with HT curve oriented IEMs but seems they have satisfying quality bass and not bright to my ears.
> 
> ...



Get two Kube colors...maybe the pink for your wife.  Sadly, the purple seems to have sold out.

Haha..you have only just begun.  At some point, after exploring what is out there I can imagine you wanting to make your own. I have several HungryPanda bud!  They are all excellent.


----------



## CoiL (May 31, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Get two Kube colors...maybe the pink for your wife.  Sadly, the purple seems to have sold out.
> 
> Haha..you have only just begun.  At some point, after exploring what is out there I can imagine you wanting to make your own. I have several HungryPanda bud!  They are all excellent.


My wife has all-over-purple modified ZSN as You remember from KZ thread 

1 pair of each of those 3 I`m going to choose is enough 

If I like one of those very much, I might be doing similar "NUN-mod" as I did long time ago with original Monk 

Now tell me guys&girls what to choose for 3rd !? 
Yincrow RT-9 vs. Tingo TC200 vs. 16 Ohm pk1 ?


----------



## waynes world

CoiL said:


> My wife has all-over-purple modified ZSN as You remember from KZ thread
> 
> 1 pair of each of those 3 I`m going to choose is enough
> 
> ...



I can't speak for the other buds, but the RW-9's are great. ClieOS sold me on them with the below impressions, and I'm glad that he did:



ClieOS said:


> Have this for a couple of days now. It can be sum'ed up as the "improved Yincrow X6", mainly you still get a slightly V-shaped sound from the X6, but with a better textured and forwarded midrange, making it the most balanced of all tuning in the whole Yincrow's line-up. In fact, I think I like it ever better then RW-777 - given it is actually cheaper than RW-777, I think Yincrow has gotten itself a winner here.





ClieOS said:


> RW-9 is probably best described as the mid ground between the more V-shaped sounding X6 and the slightly mid focus RW-777.  It is still slightly V-shaped, but with a much better textured and detailed vocal range, making it the best belanced sound signature in the whole Yincrow lineup. While the overall SQ is about the same as RW-777 (which is about upper mid to lower high in my book), I actually prefer it over RW-777 as it is much more versatile when it comes to different music genres. All and all, I'll call it a win for Yincrow, especially since it is priced cheaper than RW-777.


----------



## Willber

CoiL said:


> Ok, unless somebody convinces me other way regarding SQ against Asura 2.0 (if there is point of getting those when A2.0 is better?), I`m going to try out these:
> 1) MD Shiro-Yuki
> 2) ANN200
> 3) Kube V1
> ...


With respect, I have the Kube v1 (along with many others recommended on here) and I find the Fengru Silver I suggested to be better at less than a third of the cost. I use EQ and the FR my profiles for the two are almost identical, but the Silver wins because of its slightly larger soundstage and better clarity. It's a more mature product IMO and costs about as much as a coffee and a donut, delivered to you door free!

You asked earlier what my #1 was. Well, the other bud in my top three is the Dunu Alpha 1 which I have described before. It is great, especially at $30 reduced from $150, and I love it for certain genres as much my SR2. But the one I use most (I have two with another one on order) is the Fengru Silver, so if I was pushed into choosing a single favourite that would be it. That's after spending about $1000 on phones over the past three years (including some for $200) - a $5 bud wins. What a crazy hobby!


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> Well, the other bud in my top three is the Dunu Alpha 1 which I have described before. It is great, especially at $30 reduced from $150



We were happy to take advantage of that deal but not sure if that is still possible.  The Dunu Alpha 1 just barely fits me.  I wish they were a tiny bit smaller because my ear does get a bit sore especially if I take them in and out a lot.  



Willber said:


> - a $5 bud wins. What a crazy hobby!



I think that drivers are just getting that good now.


----------



## Willber

CoiL said:


> Which one exactly? 16Ohm SR2 or regular 16Ohm?


I got the SR2 16ohm with the red cable.


----------



## waynes world

Willber said:


> I think the SR2 is excellent for vocals. The Silver has similar tonality but they are less forward. It is a bit more v-shaped.
> Having said that, I use EQ to accentuate the mids on all my buds.
> 
> BTW, on the original store where I got them for $7.88 they are now $4.50:
> ...



That link is for the correct ones?


----------



## mbwilson111

CoiL said:


> Now tell me guys&girls what to choose for 3rd !?
> Yincrow RT-9 vs. Tingo TC200 vs. 16 Ohm pk1 ?



I have not heard the Tingo but I think you will  like the SR2 16 ohm.  You will appreciate the smaller shell.   All on that page use a PK2 shell.  The different drivers have different ohms and that 16 ohm one is using an SR2 driver that is  meant to be really good.  Mine is from a much older listing and came with a very stiff cable (since recabled).  Great sound.    The cables on this listing that you are looking at are more flexible.  My husband has one of those in black but the red looks really nice.


----------



## Willber

waynes world said:


> That link is for the correct ones?


They look the same but I won't know for sure until they arrive.
These ones I got for $4.99 are definitely the same:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Brand-Go-pro-Accessories-Projector-Monopod-Croons-Tingo-Tg-38s-Earbud-Earphones-Pk-Mx985-A8/32687542028.html


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> I have not heard the Tingo


The Tingo referred to on here recently is effectively the Fengru Silver. It goes by a few names, it seems.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> The Tingo referred to on here recently is effectively the Fengru Silver. It goes by a few names, it seems.



Even though my husband has that Fengru Silver, I have never listened to it.  I have enough to listen to!


----------



## Jsingh4

Umm guys I am new to the buds game correct me if I am wrong, I think the optimum fit 
With earbuds should look like this right?


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> Even though my husband has that Fengru Silver, I have never listened to it.  I have enough to listen to!


If you like the Kube you will love it!


----------



## mbwilson111

Jsingh4 said:


> Umm guys I am new to the buds game correct me if I am wrong, I think the optimum fit
> With earbuds should look like this right?



I can only relate to that last photo as I only have one that goes over ear.  I do just tuck them into the tragus like that and gently pull down on the stem to seat them.  That bottom photo looks perfect to me.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> If you like the Kube you will love it!



It is not mine... like I said, we rarely bother to listen to each others.  If I loved it I would want my own and we really do not need duplicates of everything.   We do have duplicates of all the ones he makes... and most of the Indonesian ones.


----------



## crtninja

Does anyone have a recommendation for an upgrade to the RY4S UE? I've gone through the Vido and RY4S as well, and it's been months since I've checked this thread for something new and interesting.
I like V-shaped sound signatures with nice imaging and clarity. I'd like something to be under $20, if at all possible.


----------



## Willber

crtninja said:


> Does anyone have a recommendation for an upgrade to the RY4S UE? I've gone through the Vido and RY4S as well, and it's been months since I've checked this thread for something new and interesting.
> I like V-shaped sound signatures with nice imaging and clarity. I'd like something to be under $20, if at all possible.


Here are my suggestions:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2823#post-14982006

Although the SR2 is more balanced than V-shaped, the Fengru Silver should suit you.


----------



## CoiL

Ok, this is getting more addictive than IEMs! LOL!

I think I will settle with these 5:

1) Moondrop Shiro-Yuki
2) Fengru Silver (Tingo TC200)
3) 16 Ohm SR2
4) Yincrow RW-9
5) Kube v1

Should be nice addition to Monk+ & Asura 2.0 and cover most popular (by audiophile means) earbuds.

This month will take 1 and 2. 
Next month 3 and 5.

Will report back when I have them all and do my subjective comparisons


----------



## waynes world

Willber said:


> They look the same but I won't know for sure until they arrive.
> These ones I got for $4.99 are definitely the same:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Brand-Go-pro-Accessories-Projector-Monopod-Croons-Tingo-Tg-38s-Earbud-Earphones-Pk-Mx985-A8/32687542028.html



Done! Which means I can't spend money on a pint of beer tonight lol.


----------



## Willber

CoiL said:


> Ok, this is getting more addictive than IEMs! LOL!
> 
> I think I will settle with these 5:
> 
> ...


Some good choices there.


----------



## CoiL

Willber said:


> Some good choices there.


Only some? 
Should I ditch some?


----------



## mbwilson111

CoiL said:


> Only some?
> Should I ditch some?



Maybe he means you should add some


----------



## Willber (May 31, 2019)

CoiL said:


> Only some?
> Should I ditch some?


I don't have Moondrop (yet!).
2&3 I love.
4&5 I like.


----------



## Willber (May 31, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Maybe he means you should add some


Yes - another 50 or so! 
(Only joking. I could boil my collection down to about 10 quite easily based on what I use.)


----------



## Willber

Willber said:


> Yes - another 50 or so!
> (Only joking. I could boil my collection down to about 10 quite easily based on what I use.)


That got me thinking. Here is my top 10:

1. Fengru Silver
2. SR2 16ohm
3. Dunu Alpha 1
4. AKG K702 (over-ear)
5. Snow Lotus 1.0
6-10 (in no order):
Koss KSC75 (on-ear)
AAW Nebula 1 (IEM)
Sabia v6 Pearl
B&W P5 (on-ear)
Sony E808+

I was wrong, it wasn't easy.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> That got me thinking. Here is my top 10:
> 
> 1. Fengru Silver
> 2. SR2 16ohm
> ...



What if you only pick buds?


----------



## Willber (May 31, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> What if you only pick buds?


Ah, that's a good idea, should make it easier. I'll do that tomorrow. 
Currently using the Sabia. Tonally very nice. If it opens out a bit (like the SR2 did a lot) it should climb.


----------



## Zerohour88

cyh03176 said:


> anybody owns the zeva superfire here?



tagging @ClieOS since he's the only guy I've seen here having any models from them.

also super interested in the Zeva Lord.E since he considers them TOTL, waiting for sales or more info on the MMCX version. might make a nice upgrade from my EBX.


----------



## ClieOS

Zerohour88 said:


> tagging @ClieOS since he's the only guy I've seen here having any models from them.
> 
> also super interested in the Zeva Lord.E since he considers them TOTL, waiting for sales or more info on the MMCX version. might make a nice upgrade from my EBX.



ZEVA seems to be only interested in making earbuds with exceptionally good price/performance ratio and the SuperFire is one of such example. Sound signature is warmish tilting toward neutral. Good reach on both ends of the frequency response and a mildly sweet mid-range give it a fairly versatile sound that should go well most genre of music and the sound stage is pretty good as well. There is really no real weakness to speak of, especially considered it is a $15 earbuds.

Lord.E is a great earbud as well, but it is not the easiest to drive. You will want to use gears that of desktop level in order to make it shines.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

ClieOS said:


> ZEVA seems to be only interested in making earbuds with exceptionally good price/performance ratio and the SuperFire is one of such example. Sound signature is warmish tilting toward neutral. Good reach on both ends of the frequency response and a mildly sweet mid-range give it a fairly versatile sound that should go well most genre of music and the sound stage is pretty good as well. There is really no real weakness to speak of, especially considered it is a $15 earbuds.
> 
> Lord.E is a great earbud as well, but it is not the easiest to drive. You will want to use gears that of desktop level in order to make it shines.


And how to buy it?


----------



## ClieOS

Marcos Fontana said:


> And how to buy it?



...and that's the real reason why you don't see ZEVA popping all over the place - they were only sold on their own store in Taobao AFAIK.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

ClieOS said:


> ...and that's the real reason why you don't see ZEVA popping all over the place - they were only sold on their own store in Taobao AFAIK.


I need to find a tutorial describing how to buy in taobao :/


----------



## Zerohour88

ClieOS said:


> ZEVA seems to be only interested in making earbuds with exceptionally good price/performance ratio and the SuperFire is one of such example. Sound signature is warmish tilting toward neutral. Good reach on both ends of the frequency response and a mildly sweet mid-range give it a fairly versatile sound that should go well most genre of music and the sound stage is pretty good as well. There is really no real weakness to speak of, especially considered it is a $15 earbuds.
> 
> Lord.E is a great earbud as well, but it is not the easiest to drive. You will want to use gears that of desktop level in order to make it shines.



its currently usd$160 for the MMCX Lord.E, seems like really great value. Though their taobao shop is now barren with only 2 models up for purchase. Any idea why that is?

https://shop125430789.taobao.com/se...c.w4002-18931857116.1.5e89f3315txx3W&search=y


----------



## ClieOS

Zerohour88 said:


> .... Though their taobao shop is now barren with only 2 models up for purchase. Any idea why that is?



There were only 4 main series: Lord.E, Dragon series, Snow series, and SuperFire. Dragon series is currently waiting for next upgrade model, the Dragon 3, to come out. The Snow series is just a simple case of running out of stock and waiting for new stock to arrive. That's why they only have 2 models for sale now.


----------



## cyh03176

Zerohour88 said:


> tagging @ClieOS since he's the only guy I've seen here having any models from them.
> 
> also super interested in the Zeva Lord.E since he considers them TOTL, waiting for sales or more info on the MMCX version. might make a nice upgrade from my EBX.


Thanks!



ClieOS said:


> ...and that's the real reason why you don't see ZEVA popping all over the place - they were only sold on their own store in Taobao AFAIK.


Yeap.. But from what I heard from the customer service last night they are planning to sell their models internationally just not sure on which platform yet. I told them to go for aliexpress haha


----------



## Jsingh4

Hey guys can you list all the earbuds that to you felt like full sized headphones.


----------



## HungryPanda

K's K600


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> K's K600



I concur about the K600.
And, I'd add the homemade 600Ω Beryllium earbud I just assembled [$68.83 (Drivers = $43.20, Metal Shells = $18.50, MMCX Jacks = $7.13)]


----------



## HungryPanda

My self made 600 ohm earbud sounds great too


----------



## Jsingh4

DBaldock9 said:


> I concur about the K600.
> And, I'd add the homemade 600Ω Beryllium earbud I just assembled [$68.83 (Drivers = $43.20, Metal Shells = $18.50, MMCX Jacks = $7.13)]


If it's ready please share the pictures and how close is it to k600


----------



## Themilkman46290

HungryPanda said:


> K's K600


 I been wondering, how are the k's 600 with the zishan dsd?


----------



## HungryPanda

I have not tried yet. I will tonight though.


----------



## nickv

HungryPanda said:


> K's K600


Would you be able to point me towards a seller of these?


----------



## CoiL

How`s this one? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/AK-...5.0&pvid=c0b76e31-19e3-4bf5-8218-f17fec33a2d8

I`m not sure but yesterday I think I saw SuperFire @ aliexpress but search doesn`t show it.


----------



## DBaldock9

Jsingh4 said:


> If it's ready please share the pictures and how close is it to k600



Inside of the shell, with glue on the MMCX nut -
.

 
.
.
Assembled earbuds, with Donut foam over Full Foam -
.
 
.
.
The drivers look like any of the millions of other 15.4mm drivers - 
.


----------



## cyh03176

CoiL said:


> How`s this one? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/AK-...5.0&pvid=c0b76e31-19e3-4bf5-8218-f17fec33a2d8
> 
> I`m not sure but yesterday I think I saw SuperFire @ aliexpress but search doesn`t show it.



don't think you saw it. i searched everywhere and Zeva Superfire is only sold on Taobao. The customer service also chatted with me as they are planning to expand their market to global and asked me which is the best platform to do that.

I bought one. Should be here within 2 weeks.


----------



## Jsingh4

DBaldock9 said:


> Inside of the shell, with glue on the MMCX nut -
> .
> 
> .
> ...





wow they look great, BTW was it hard to take out the driver from the cap?


----------



## BabyLamb89 (Jun 1, 2019)

Marcos Fontana said:


> And how to buy it?



The Taobao links are here: Superfire: link

Lord.E: link

You can just put these links into a buying agent (I used Superbuy and it worked out great) and you get your earbuds from China.

Edit: Just tried it with Superbuy and it claims they are not available... Other agents seem to work though.


----------



## cyh03176

BabyLamb89 said:


> The Taobao links are here: Superfire: link
> 
> Lord.E: link
> 
> ...


saw your signature. is rw-9 better than k's llb? mind to share a little bit?


----------



## BabyLamb89

cyh03176 said:


> saw your signature. is rw-9 better than k's llb? mind to share a little bit?



I actually really like both of them but I think the RW-9 gives a more balanced presentation of music. The LLB has really nice mids and detail retrieval but the bass is really lacking, to the extent that sometimes it bothers me. On occasion a song can sound completely different to what I'm used to hearing. The Yincrows on the other hand are probably a bit more shouty, a bit less detailed and more mid-recessed but my music sounds how it should. I also find they fit better since the LLBs don't really have any stems to help with putting them in.

Both have their advantages but I find the Yincrows more faithful. (I listen mostly to metal and prog)


----------



## cyh03176 (Jun 1, 2019)

BabyLamb89 said:


> I actually really like both of them but I think the RW-9 gives a more balanced presentation of music. The LLB has really nice mids and detail retrieval but the bass is really lacking, to the extent that sometimes it bothers me. On occasion a song can sound completely different to what I'm used to hearing. The Yincrows on the other hand are probably a bit more shouty, a bit less detailed and more mid-recessed but my music sounds how it should. I also find they fit better since the LLBs don't really have any stems to help with putting them in.
> 
> Both have their advantages but I find the Yincrows more faithful. (I listen mostly to metal and prog)



I see, ever thought about disassemble the LBB and take out the foam covering the vents? that increased the bass and soundstage of all my current earbuds like nicehck diy graphene (1st gen), nicehck diy pk2 (this had little to no bass before the mod) and also yincrow x6


----------



## ClieOS

With LBB, you want to use donut foam to make it warmer sounding without affecting the treble. If you go foamless, you won't get much bass out of it since it is tuned with using foam in mind.


----------



## BabyLamb89

cyh03176 said:


> I see, ever thought about disassemble the LBB and take out the foam covering the vents? that increased the bass and soundstage of all my current earbuds like nicehck diy graphene (1st gen), nicehck diy pk2 (this had little to no bass before the mod) and also yincrow x6



No, I am more likely to mess things up than improve anything. Maybe one day. By the way, I use full foams on everything (on the outside).



ClieOS said:


> With LBB, you want to use donut foam to make it warmer sounding without affecting the treble. If you go foamless, you won't get much bass out of it since it is tuned with using foam in mind.



I found it too awkward to put doughnut foams on so stuck with full. But maybe I'll try again soon. I have some these arriving soon though: Audio Technica ath-j100 so more to experiment with first!


----------



## Marcos Fontana

BabyLamb89 said:


> The Taobao links are here: Superfire: link
> 
> Lord.E: link
> 
> ...


Thank you very much! I bought the Superfire to test the Superbuy.


----------



## BabyLamb89

Marcos Fontana said:


> Thank you very much! I bought the Superfire to test the Superbuy.



You'll discover that domestic shipping in China is really fast! I bought on Friday night (in Europe) and all my items had arrived at Superbuy on Monday. You'll also get a picture of your product and shipping options.


----------



## Frederick Wang

CoiL said:


> Ok, unless somebody convinces me other way regarding SQ against Asura 2.0 (if there is point of getting those when A2.0 is better?), I`m going to try out these:
> 1) MD Shiro-Yuki
> 2) ANN200
> 3) Kube V1
> ...



I would love to suggest ZEVA superfire


----------



## cyh03176

Frederick Wang said:


> I would love to suggest ZEVA superfire


you got it too? how's your impression?


----------



## Frederick Wang

cyh03176 said:


> you got it too? how's your impression?



It arrived this morning with ANN N200, right out of the box, I like it much better than the later 
Great treble, very lifelike female voice, satisfactory staging, can be a little bit boomy at times
This is only very initial impressions though


----------



## Frederick Wang

Where do you guys get your fengru earbuds? I cannot seem to find a seller on Taobao


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32687542028.html

Aliexpress seller cannot ship them to China mainland


----------



## cyh03176

Frederick Wang said:


> It arrived this morning with ANN N200, right out of the box, I like it much better than the later
> Great treble, very lifelike female voice, satisfactory staging, can be a little bit boomy at times
> This is only very initial impressions though


Thanks for your impression. I can't wait now for mine!


Frederick Wang said:


> Where do you guys get your fengru earbuds? I cannot seem to find a seller on Taobao
> 
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32687542028.html
> ...


Tingo TC200\TC300? It has been updated with a new model Tingo TG38S

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=21425919834


----------



## cocolinho

DBaldock9 said:


> I concur about the K600.
> And, I'd add the homemade 600Ω Beryllium earbud I just assembled [$68.83 (Drivers = $43.20, Metal Shells = $18.50, MMCX Jacks = $7.13)]


@HungryPanda @DBaldock9 
How do you use them ? Which foams do you use ? I feel they are pretty bright with a peak in high mids. I would love to get more bass power too


----------



## HungryPanda

Mine are in MX500 shells with thick tuning foams:  
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/lVoIS9K


----------



## DBaldock9

Jsingh4 said:


> wow they look great, BTW was it hard to take out the driver from the cap?



I've never tried to take a driver out of a cap.
The drivers come in the cap, which just snaps onto a MX500 (15.4mm) sized shell - like the metal ones I bought.


----------



## DBaldock9

cocolinho said:


> @HungryPanda @DBaldock9
> How do you use them ? Which foams do you use ? I feel they are pretty bright with a peak in high mids. I would love to get more bass power too





HungryPanda said:


> Mine are in MX500 shells with thick tuning foams:
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/lVoIS9K



The 600Ω Beryllium drivers that I bought, already had "Tuning Cotton" installed, so I didn't add any additional tuning foam (or cotton).


----------



## waynes world

BabyLamb89 said:


> The Taobao links are here: Superfire: link
> 
> Lord.E: link
> 
> ...



All of this Superfire talk has got my "buy now" trigger finger itchy! Hopefully they put them on aliexpress someday.


----------



## BabyLamb89

waynes world said:


> All of this Superfire talk has got my "buy now" trigger finger itchy! Hopefully they put them on aliexpress someday.



I'm tempted myself but I only have two ears, one of which doesn't work, so I don't need more.


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> All of this Superfire talk has got my "buy now" trigger finger itchy! Hopefully they put them on aliexpress someday.



...or on ebay


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> ...or on ebay


 #MeToo


----------



## cyh03176

waynes world said:


> All of this Superfire talk has got my "buy now" trigger finger itchy! Hopefully they put them on aliexpress someday.



yes it is pretty hyped in China now. everyone say's it's the best within its price range or should have sold them for 500yuan or why is it so cheap haha.

the name in Chinese is Zeva 黑炎, i guess you can google that and use translator on those reviews and forum


----------



## rkw

DBaldock9 said:


> Assembled earbuds, with Donut foam over Full Foam -


Which vendors are using that type of metal shell? I'm not so interested in building my own.

I've been favoring metal shells because of my perception (maybe placebo) that with a stiffer body they contribute less of a ringing/reverb effect, which I hear especially with plastic MX500 shells. In loudspeakers, you don't want the cabinet to flex and resonate, and I think it should be the same with headphone and earphone enclosures.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have made a few earbuds with these shells :  https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...es-shell-casing-15-4mm/323026_2033165338.html


----------



## HungryPanda

This looks interesting too:  https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...0-pt850-10pairs-price/323026_32989072652.html


----------



## Jsingh4 (Jun 1, 2019)

Umm guys what are these


----------



## cyh03176

rkw said:


> Which vendors are using that type of metal shell? I'm not so interested in building my own.
> 
> I've been favoring metal shells because of my perception (maybe placebo) that with a stiffer body they contribute less of a ringing/reverb effect, which I hear especially with plastic MX500 shells. In loudspeakers, you don't want the cabinet to flex and resonate, and I think it should be the same with headphone and earphone enclosures.


using car speaker foam and studio wall foam concept, try adding a foam at the back of the driver to absorb the reverb


Jsingh4 said:


> Umm guys what are these


yuin pk1 but convertible to iem, it's called ok1, correct me if im wrong


----------



## mbwilson111

Jsingh4 said:


> Umm guys what are these



That is just weird.  I don't even see how it could be comfortable in iem mode.

... and it costs over $200


----------



## Jsingh4

cyh03176 said:


> using car speaker foam and studio wall foam concept, try adding a foam at the back of the shell to absorb the reverb
> 
> yuin pk1 but convertible to iem, it's called ok1, correct me if im wrong


You are right, but how good are they?


----------



## CoiL (Jun 1, 2019)

Jsingh4 said:


> Umm guys what are these


What?!
IT`S FRANKENYUIN! O_o

I prefer this metamorphosis:


Spoiler: NUN


----------



## cyh03176

Jsingh4 said:


> You are right, but how good are they?



not really interested in those but it should sound the same as pk1 which has abundance of reviews


----------



## HungryPanda

Jsingh4 said:


> Umm guys what are these


----------



## cyh03176

CoiL said:


> What?!
> IT`S FRANKENYUIN! O_o


don't be surprised lol they had been there forever for sale


----------



## rkw (Jun 1, 2019)

Jsingh4 said:


> Umm guys what are these


The Yuin OK1 has been around for 8 years! You can find posts on head-fi dating back to 2011. As an earbud, it was state of the art at the time, but its IEM mode was never well received.

Yuin buds have been unchanged for many years but the old designs have held up surprisingly well. However, as new buds they are not good value compared to today's competition.


----------



## cyh03176

rkw said:


> The Yuin OK1 has been around for 18 years! You can find posts on head-fi dating back to 2011. As an earbud, it was state of the art at the time, but its IEM mode was never well received.
> 
> Yuin buds have been unchanged for many years but the old designs have held up surprisingly well. However, as new buds they are not good value compared to today's competition.


now it is surprising. 18 years


----------



## rkw (Jun 1, 2019)

cyh03176 said:


> now it is surprising. 18 years


Ha, ha sorry about my bad math . Should have said 8 years (huge difference). Fixed my post.


----------



## mbwilson111

rkw said:


> The Yuin OK1 has been around for 8 years! You can find posts on head-fi dating back to 2011. As an earbud, it was state of the art at the time, but its IEM mode was never well received.
> 
> Yuin buds have been unchanged for many years but the old designs have held up surprisingly well. However, as new buds they are not good value compared to today's competition.



I am not surprised that the iem mode was not well received.  It looks like it would be so uncomfortable.


----------



## MisterMudd

OK. Bought a bunch of the suggestions on here below the $10 mark and find them better, to much better than the Monk + and OG that I had been using. Favorite so far are Vido and Snow Lotus 1.0+ (though it sits kinda big in my ear). Eagerly awaiting the SR2 16 Ohms just ordered. May stop there as I do not hear anything yet
sounding close to my full size cans. In the right situations the convenience factor is well understood. And I do understand your addiction. Carry on troops!


----------



## TheoS53

I'll post the link for the reviews I just did on a bunch of buds once they're published, and yeah I found the Vido and SL 1.0+ to be quite good too. Other than those the Qian25 and RY4S are ones I think are truly worth checking out. Q25 has a really, really nice tonality (quite similar to my HD58X), whereas the RY4S seems a little more v-shaped in comparison..deeper bass, livelier highs. If you can manage to get hold of the RY4S I reckon it's outstanding considering it costs less than $10, and the Q25 holds probably a bit more bang-for-buck given how cheap it is.


----------



## cyh03176

just got myself a Tingo TG38S. ootb it sounds very clear but bass is barely enough to keep the music exciting. bass is at the right amount after putting on a donut foam.


----------



## MelodyMood

golov17 said:


> For me : BOE>rm303>em3s>rm305=Sur
> 
> Also BOE better than TP16+Monk's


Thanks Golov. Are BOE expensive? Are they available on AE also? I visited their own site but don't see BOE anymore. And as you also mentioned RM-303 is better than RM305, does it has good detailed sound with smooth signature? I know that is not too expensive so I can go for that instead of RM305. My original old Apple Earbuds has good details and very warm sound it came with iPod One but sadly it does not has Mic  I hope RM303 or EM3 will be better that this or at least at same level.


----------



## MelodyMood

wskl said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/here-comes-fiio-em3k-em3s-–the-return-of-the-classic.871594/
> 
> 
> Probably no change in sound, but you can contact Fiio to find out.


Thanks. I asked FiiO on this site to reply on the query. Let's see.


----------



## MelodyMood

assassin10000 said:


> Search "pt15" at the top and read impressions. I haven't heard the pt15 so I can't help there. I'd look at the more recent ones as they have changed from the 1st version iirc. (EDIT/update: no change in sound despite slight shell revision from multiple rrar vents to single rear, per @ClieOS )
> 
> There is also an airpod'ish shaped pt25, I had that one and it was balanced and not cold nor warm iirc. You'd need to add a mic cable to it though.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Let me see which one I can go for. The problem with these earbuds is that you won't find them anywhere else just to test/check/demo. I guess it will be a good business to buy these earbuds and have at least one sample for listeners so that they can listen and buy immediately


----------



## MelodyMood

golov17 said:


> For me : BOE>rm303>em3s>rm305=Sur
> 
> Also BOE better than TP16+Monk's


What is SUR earbud?


----------



## MelodyMood

golov17 said:


> bass 305<303, treble 303<305, btw in my pair rm303 (40 Ohm version) all right with bass, low and deep


I hope 303 is nit harsh as they are more treble oriented. If 305 is not too much with bass that it actually affects the details, then I can go with this one too.


----------



## MelodyMood

golov17 said:


> If you like rm303, try Tuna cm6


Looks very good. How is the sound signature? Any review?


----------



## MelodyMood

MelodyMood said:


> Looks very good. How is the sound signature? Any review?


Cannot see Tuna CM6 Earbud anymore on AE or elsewhere  Sad. Any link?


----------



## mbwilson111

MelodyMood said:


> Cannot see Tuna CM6 Earbud anymore on AE or elsewhere  Sad. Any link?



You were quoting a two and a half year old post!

Seven posts in a row?  We are supposed to either use multi quote or edit our post to add any questions random thoughts if no one else has replied or posted during that time.


----------



## MelodyMood

mbwilson111 said:


> You were quoting a two and a half year old post!
> 
> Seven posts in a row?  We are supposed to either use multi quote or edit our post to add any questions random thoughts if no one else has replied or posted during that time.


Ok. It was all different posts so used different ones. Not sure how to add into the same post  Anyway, so Tuna CM6 is no longer available?


----------



## ClieOS

MelodyMood said:


> Ok. It was all different posts so used different ones. Not sure how to add into the same post  Anyway, so Tuna CM6 is no longer available?



Observing netiquette always makes other more willing to reply to you. Ignore them too many times amd people will start ignoring you.

To quote multiple posts, simple click on the "+Quote" on lower right corner of ever post you want to reply to. Then click on the "Insert Quotes" on the commenting box.


----------



## mbwilson111

MelodyMood said:


> Anyway, so Tuna CM6 is no longer available?



If all the sellers are saying that then it is no longer available.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tuna-CM6-earphones-cancelling-headsets-headphones-Red/dp/B01EBYMC7O

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tun...oise-cancelling-music-stereo/32248306886.html


https://www.wish.com/product/tuna-c...ic-stereo-headphones-54c5e50e07433a0942a500ba

https://www.dhgate.com/product/wholesale-tuna-cm6-mobile-phone-earphones/229624892.html


----------



## TheoS53

BTW, if you guys are maybe looking at an affordable portable tube amplifier, I've just posted my vid review of the B4-X of in this thread.


----------



## Marcos Fontana




----------



## mbwilson111

I think my HungryPanda Eclipse looks similar to that Tuna.  I bet mine sounds better






Tuna CM6


----------



## Dazrok

HI guys, 
I'm looking for a nice pair of earbuds, I currently use the monk + and looking for an upgrade. 

I mainly use my smartphone to listen to music, I prefer a pair with a mic but it's not a must. 

Can you please recommend me a pair? 

Thanks.


----------



## cyh03176

Dazrok said:


> HI guys,
> I'm looking for a nice pair of earbuds, I currently use the monk + and looking for an upgrade.
> 
> I mainly use my smartphone to listen to music, I prefer a pair with a mic but it's not a must.
> ...


first of all, your budget? any preferred sound signature? is monk plus comfortable enough for you?


----------



## Dazrok

cyh03176 said:


> first of all, your budget? any preferred sound signature? is monk plus comfortable enough for you?


HI, 
Budget is around 30$, a bit more is fine. 

I like a balance sound, not too much base or high frequency. 

The monks fits great.


----------



## cyh03176

Dazrok said:


> HI,
> Budget is around 30$, a bit more is fine.
> 
> I like a balance sound, not too much base or high frequency.
> ...


Check out K's LBB


----------



## cocolinho

Yincrow RW9 is not expensive enough, seriously ... Just grab them!


----------



## Dazrok

cocolinho said:


> Yincrow RW9 is not expensive enough, seriously ... Just grab them!


how is the cable like? i really like the one on the monk and this one looks a bit fragile


----------



## Dazrok

cyh03176 said:


> Check out K's LBB


thanks, i'll check them out


----------



## cyh03176

Dazrok said:


> how is the cable like? i really like the one on the monk and this one looks a bit fragile


 looks like the cable is is slightly thicker than the yincrow x6, i own the x6 and i can testify that it is a good cable


Dazrok said:


> thanks, i'll check them out


if you want cheap earbuds that has crystal clear sound with punchy bass (with donut foam, the bass is subdued when listening to them nude), get the tingo tg-38s. i just got that yesterday and oh boy, the tuning is excellent.


----------



## Dazrok

cyh03176 said:


> looks like the cable is is slightly thicker than the yincrow x6, i own the x6 and i can testify that it is a good cable
> 
> if you want cheap earbuds that has crystal clear sound with punchy bass (with donut foam, the bass is subdued when listening to them nude), get the tingo tg-38s. i just got that yesterday and oh boy, the tuning is excellent.



Does the ks lbb worth more then the rw-9?


----------



## cyh03176

Dazrok said:


> Does the ks lbb worth more then the rw-9?



i own neither. so i cannot say. but they are both getting good reviews and highly recommended here. afaik they have different tuning style. so depends on what you like.


----------



## GREQ

cyh03176 said:


> i own neither. so i cannot say. but they are both getting good reviews and highly recommended here. afaik they have different tuning style. so depends on what you like.


Just a reminder that it's against forum rules to recommend anything that you've never owned or tried out/auditioned.


----------



## cyh03176

GREQ said:


> Just a reminder that it's against forum rules to recommend anything that you've never owned or tried out/auditioned.



i see. thanks for the tip. didn't know about that


----------



## jogawag (Jun 3, 2019)

Dazrok said:


> HI,
> Budget is around 30$, a bit more is fine.
> 
> I like a balance sound, not too much base or high frequency.
> ...


I recommend YINCROW RW-9, a well-balanced sound.


Dazrok said:


> how is the cable like? i really like the one on the monk and this one looks a bit fragile


The cable is also well.


----------



## HungryPanda

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Moo...ynamic-Driver-Earbud-Headset/32980904909.html

to me a pretty perfect earbud, well built and great sound (I use a thin foam covered with a donut foam for a good fit)


----------



## Dazrok

HungryPanda said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Moo...ynamic-Driver-Earbud-Headset/32980904909.html
> 
> to me a pretty perfect earbud, well built and great sound (I use a thin foam covered with a donut foam for a good fit)


How are they compare to the monks? Better sound?


----------



## HungryPanda

The Moondrop Nameless has a better clarity about it, sound stage is wider, it is brighter  yet bass is pretty good. The stem is thin so I find them more comfortable.


----------



## seanc6441

subwoof3r said:


> Proud to present you my new little creation
> These are now my new DIY reference
> 
> Still my yet best 150 ohm drivers but with a new high quality copper cable
> Cheers'


Cable looks remarkably similar to the TM9/Yin! Really nice!


----------



## seanc6441

Marcos Fontana said:


> Totally agree. This is a rule in earbuds anonymous that I find really useful.


A rule that I suggested they implement 

Really glad they agreed it makes indexing in searches so much easier.


----------



## seanc6441

Jsingh4 said:


> Hey guys can you list all the earbuds that to you felt like full sized headphones.


Ks ling modded, kube v1 modded, ourart ti7 (not for its bass but for its mids which are very meaty but clean and refined).

Rose mojito at times too, although with the mojito I'm always wishing for an extra 2-3db of emphasis in the low mids and vocal range and then it would be incredible all round.


----------



## subwoof3r

seanc6441 said:


> Cable looks remarkably similar to the TM9/Yin! Really nice!


You have good eyes, this is the exact same


----------



## Themilkman46290

Hello guys and gals, I am looking to get a good pair of earbuds in the next month or so, I have allready had a few and so far I really like these samsaras. I was hoping you guys could give a few examples, in a similar price range ($75-150) I would really prefer higher impedance, as I like the way that high impedance buds sound (fuller, with a "big headphone" sound) 
I been looking at the k's 600, ty hi-z hp650, puresounds ps100 500ohm, toneking to600 
But can't make up my mind, the samsaras are nice, like Sennheiser, nice mids good highs and nice sub bass, but sometimes I hear a song and feel something is missing in the highs, I really liked the to400 resolution but the lack of bass is a deal breaker, I like my wife's ty hi-z 150 ts (blue/red) but I feel the mids are a bit veiled

How do these compare?

Thanks in advance


----------



## cyh03176

anyone tried these before?

https://www.amazon.com/Eros-Earbuds-Identity-Standard-Copper/dp/B07QX6ZHR2?th=1


----------



## tnelmo

I bought a ticket on the 2018 Hype Train:

I got the Zishan Z2 in early 2018.  Love it still - my only source.  Got the Monk+ to go with it.  Love them for their sound.  Perfect pairing, just as most people said.  That should have been it....

Somehow, I ended up with another Monk+, a Qian25, and a Vido.  Love them all sound-wise.  I have fit issues on all of them.  I don't have a depression for them to sit in.  Didn't realize this until I checked a family member's ear.  They had a very deep depression for the buds to sit in and seat well.  I use a shirt clip with them and try not to move much.

Then, I got the KZ ATE, KZ EDR1, and KZ ED9 to see how IEMs worked.  I enjoy the sound of each, but my ears "poop" them out within a minute or two.  Tried silicone, KZ memory foams, AE memory foams, all different sizes.  So, I stick with buds.

I've read 400 of the last 800 pages of this forum that have passed since my original research for the much loved much hyped items above.  I am looking for *ONE* slight 2019 Hype Train upgrade to the Monk/Qian25/Vido buds.  I see some consensus and high praise for:

$5-$10

RY4S-UE
Headroom MS16
K's 64
Kube V1 (pretty much ruled this out for $8 shipping for an $8 bud)


$10-$12

Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0+ CE
DIY PK2 SR2 Pro 


My music is 1970s-1990s pop, r&b, jazz, rock, disco, and some classical (all FLAC).  With my Zishan Z2 in mind, what is your recommendation for this upgrade?  Any I didn't include that should've been?  @HungryPanda once said *K's 64* every time (from a similar list).  Does that still stand?   I'm only going to get one, still hoping to avoid the tragic pitfalls of reading this forum.  

On the buds fitment issue, has anyone had any luck with the winged rings from the VE EX pack?  I've looked for similar on AE, but between the annoying coupon popup on EVERY. SINGLE. PAGE. and not really knowing the proper search term for these things, I've given up, not finding any others large enough for the mx500 shell.  Surely there is a source for these things without having to buy the EX pack plus shipping ($5 + $3.16).

Thanks.  I really enjoy reading this and the obscure DAP forums.


----------



## seanc6441

cyh03176 said:


> anyone tried these before?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Eros-Earbuds-Identity-Standard-Copper/dp/B07QX6ZHR2?th=1


Apparently using biodyna drivers which is cool. Actually check to make sure that specific one is biocelluose but the seller mentioned his range having that driver type on EA group on facebook.

Haven't seen any impressions of them on here so if you wanna bit the bullet please do share your thoughts on them here with us!


----------



## waynes world

tnelmo said:


> I bought a ticket on the 2018 Hype Train:
> 
> I got the Zishan Z2 in early 2018.  Love it still - my only source.  Got the Monk+ to go with it.  Love them for their sound.  Perfect pairing, just as most people said.  That should have been it....
> 
> ...



Ha - "poop" them out! I've never heard that terminology, but I also have a tendency to do the same thing with my iems - very irritating. You inspired me to dig out my ED9's. They're actually surprisingly good for cheapo iems. But yes, pooping out of my ears syndrome lol.



> I've read 400 of the last 800 pages of this forum that have passed since my original research for the much loved much hyped items above.  I am looking for *ONE* slight 2019 Hype Train upgrade to the Monk/Qian25/Vido buds.  I see some consensus and high praise for:
> 
> $5-$10
> 
> ...



The Kube V1's are worth the $16 (or you can get another pair from the same seller to ease the cost of shipping - they are all good).

I can't really help you though, because I like all of the ones you listed that I have (V1's, K's 64's, RY4S-UE, SL1.0+CE's) - they are all great.

Or if you are willing to go up to $18, the Yincrow RW-9's would definitely be a nice upgrade.

Good luck!


----------



## HungryPanda

K'64 uses same size shell as monk so out of your list. I would pick DIY SR2 Pro 16 ohm.


----------



## mbwilson111

tnelmo said:


> DIY PK2 SR2 Pro



I agree with Panda on this one because it is a smaller shell... maybe will fit you better.  I wonder if you are getting the best fit that you can with your Monks... so many use that same shell that it would be good if you could fit it better.  Do you tuck part of it under (into) the tragus area and then pull down on the stem to seat it?


----------



## waynes world

tnelmo said:


> I have fit issues on all of them.  I don't have a depression for them to sit in.  Didn't realize this until I checked a family member's ear.  They had a very deep depression for the buds to sit in and seat well.  I use a shirt clip with them and try not to move much.



Please provide a picture of your ear. I'd like to compare your Antitragus and Intertragical Notch to those shown in the images that mbwilson111 posted.


----------



## cyh03176

mbwilson111 said:


> I agree with Panda on this one because it is a smaller shell... maybe will fit you better.  I wonder if you are getting the best fit that you can with your Monks... so many use that same shell that it would be good if you could fit it better.  Do you tuck part of it under (into) the tragus area and then pull down on the stem to seat it?


i find inserting earbuds into antitragus first facing slightly upwards do best lol. punchier bass.


----------



## mbwilson111

cyh03176 said:


> i find inserting earbuds into antitragus first facing slightly upwards do best lol. punchier bass.



I just looked in the mirror.  I had not thought about the antitragus but you are right... the antitragus is holding my bud in along with the tragus.  I just tried your method and it is easier to get it under the tragus if I start by inserting it into the antitragus. I still have to pull down on the stem though to firmly seat it.  Anything larger than a Monk is not going to fit me.


----------



## cyh03176

mbwilson111 said:


> I just looked in the mirror.  I had not thought about the antitragus but you are right... the antitragus is holding my bud in along with the tragus.  I just tried your method and it is easier to get it under the tragus if I start by inserting it into the antitragus. I still have to pull down on the stem though to firmly seat it.  Anything larger than a Monk is not going to fit me.


notice any sound difference?


----------



## mbwilson111

cyh03176 said:


> notice any sound difference?



No, because the final result is just the bud sitting in the best place for me... it is possible I have it angled the way you say but I am not sure.  It just fits how it fits .. not much room to wiggle it to a different angle... and I certainly cannot do the sideways thing that some suggest.

Anyway... when I went to the mirror to try it, I did not even have the bud connected to anything.   Today is an IEM day   Something new arrived yesterday.   IEM tips do not "poop" or "pop" or slide out of my ears if I have the right tips.


----------



## cyh03176

lol i should make some iem and earbud days too


----------



## mbwilson111

cyh03176 said:


> lol i should make some iem and earbud days too



I just find that if I use things that are vastly different all in one day, nothing really sounds right.  Also, if I am expecting something new, I try to not listen to anything that day until it arrives.


----------



## cyh03176

i know how that feels. someday i just pick out the earbuds that came with the phone and it sounds good to me


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> Today is an IEM day   Something new arrived yesterday.   IEM tips do not "poop" or "pop" or slide out of my ears if I have the right tips.



Half an hour ago was my "This 10 minute block is an IEM block". That was it. Ears started getting itchy. Started getting earache. Back to buds and headphones!!!


----------



## cyh03176

waynes world said:


> Half an hour ago was my "This 10 minute block is an IEM block". That was it. Ears started getting itchy. Started getting earache. Back to buds and headphones!!!



what kind of iem tips were you using though? >.> is it against forum rule to talk about iem here? lol


----------



## waynes world

cyh03176 said:


> what kind of iem tips were you using though? >.> is it against forum rule to talk about iem here? lol



It's not the tips - when I was in my iem phase I tried many different tips, and some would work better at keeping the iems in. The real issue for me is that my ears are sensitive to having anything jammed in them, and also sensitive to the sound pressure that iems produce - maybe it's the closer proximity to the eardrums, I don't know - but iems start flaring up tinnitus etc. So for me it is best to leave well enough alone and stick with buds (which I enjoy greatly anyway, so all is good).

But yes, we should cease and desist the iem talk before we get rebuked


----------



## mbwilson111

cyh03176 said:


> i know how that feels. someday i just pick out the earbuds that came with the phone and it sounds good to me



The buds that came with my new Benjie X6 sound pretty good.  Very easy to listen to.

In fact, I think I will switch to this now... it is getting late... good time to relax...  I will let the IEMs burn in at my desk all night tonight.

Benjie!


----------



## cyh03176

i read a lot of recommendations regarding kube v1. but what about kube v2 though? a local reseller has that in stock


----------



## mbwilson111

cyh03176 said:


> i read a lot of recommendations regarding kube v1. but what about kube v2 though? a local reseller has that in stock



I love my Kube V2.  It might be big for some ears but I find it comfortable.  Some people don't like the flat cable but at least it is not a J cable.   I think it sounds BIG.. .kind of like headphones.

Here is a review here on headfi

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kube-2.22577/reviews


----------



## cyh03176

mbwilson111 said:


> I love my Kube V2.  It might be big for some ears but I find it comfortable.  Some people don't like the flat cable but at least it is not a J cable.   I think it sounds BIG.. .kind of like headphones.
> 
> Here is a review here on headfi
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kube-2.22577/reviews


k thx i will get it then.. it's only $4 lol. good night


----------



## mbwilson111

cyh03176 said:


> k thx i will get it then.. it's only $4 lol. good night



That is a great deal!!!  Get a spare as well.


----------



## waynes world

cyh03176 said:


> k thx i will get it then.. it's only $4 lol. good night



Oh yeah, snag them for sure. They do have a big analogy headphoney kinda sound. The flat linquini cable is, um, not quite al dente, but my dog would eat it if it could


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Oh yeah, snag them for sure. They do have a big analogy headphoney kinda sound. The flat linquini cable is, um, not quite al dente, but my dog would eat it if it could



I actually don't mind the Kube2 cable.


----------



## MelodyMood

Dazrok said:


> thanks, i'll check them out


Both RW9 and Ks LLB are without Mic. And same for Nameless also (I think someone suggested that too)


----------



## tnelmo (Jun 4, 2019)

Wow!  Thanks for the responses.




waynes world said:


> Ha - "poop" them out! I've never heard that terminology, but I also have a tendency to do the same thing with my iems - very irritating. You inspired me to dig out my ED9's. They're actually surprisingly good for cheapo iems. But yes, pooping out of my ears syndrome lol.
> 
> The Kube V1's are worth the $16 (or you can get another pair from the same seller to ease the cost of shipping - they are all good).
> 
> ...




Thanks @waynes world, I was really just hoping to be the first to work the word "poop" into a post!  But that's what it feels like, a slow, steady expulsion -- OK now I grossed myself out.  Thanks for the suggestion of the Yincrow RW-9, maybe that $15-$20 range will be my splurge for 2020.




HungryPanda said:


> K'64 uses same size shell as monk so out of your list. I would pick DIY SR2 Pro 16 ohm.




Thanks @HungryPanda, I have wondered about the fit of the smaller shell, but I seem to remember it having less bass. I'm not sure the smaller shell will help much, as I'll explain below.  Re: the K's 64 and/or the DIY SR2 Pro 16, do you consider the sound a great improvement over the Monk+/Vido/Qian25s I have, or just marginal?




mbwilson111 said:


> I agree with Panda on this one because it is a smaller shell... maybe will fit you better.  I wonder if you are getting the best fit that you can with your Monks... so many use that same shell that it would be good if you could fit it better.  Do you tuck part of it under (into) the tragus area and then pull down on the stem to seat it?






waynes world said:


> Please provide a picture of your ear. I'd like to compare your Antitragus and Intertragical Notch to those shown in the images that mbwilson111 posted.



​
Thanks @mbwilson111 for the incredible graphic and for your comment @waynes world .  Not in a million years would I post a photo of my ear on the net.  Even if I spent the next five hours tweezing and snipping my old-man-ear-hair and looking for blackheads.   I've searched for an ear that is shaped like mine, turns out I have an "everted antitragus," which after some reading, I understand is somewhat different than "introverted antisocial."  Remember the movie Free Willie?  The whale's dorsal fin just sort of gave up and leaned over to one side?  Well, that is what my tragus and antitragus have done, leaving the concha a shallow bowl with no rim and little to no intertragical notch.  Looking at my ears front on view, both the tragus and antitragus lean outward in points, unlike the nice erect antitragus in your graphic.  Ears are ugly.  This is not a photo of my ear.  I'll be starting an Everted Antitragus Support Group soon.











mbwilson111 said:


> The buds that came with my new Benjie X6 sound pretty good.  Very easy to listen to.
> 
> In fact, I think I will switch to this now... it is getting late... good time to relax...  I will let the IEMs burn in at my desk all night tonight.
> 
> Benjie!



@mbwilson111 Do you like the Benjie X6?  I've been eyeing the Cayin N3 because of your comments.  Even though I adore my Zishan Z2 and "don't need" another source, I sort of like the idea of player to show album art.  Dagnab this website.


Oh yeah, sorry to turn this into a novel length post, but did the wing ding rings (from the VE EX pack) question get overlooked?  I think you mentioned in a long-ago post that @HungryPanda uses them at the gym.  I'd love to hear his pros/cons on them.  Anyone else have any luck with them?  I'm going to have to do something to secure the buds into my ears, otherwise I'll have to go to something like the bulky Koss clip ons that everyone likes.

Now that I've admitted that I have ET, the work can begin to rebuild my life....


EDIT:  There is actually an antitragus sizing chart!


----------



## waynes world

tnelmo said:


> Thanks @mbwilson111 for the incredible graphic and for your comment @waynes world .  Not in a million years would I post a photo of my ear on the net.  Even if I spent the next five hours tweezing and snipping my old-man-ear-hair and looking for blackheads.



LOL - funny!



> I've searched for an ear that is shaped like mine, turns out I have an "everted antitragus," which after some reading, I understand is somewhat different than "introverted antisocial."  Remember the movie Free Willie?  The whale's dorsal fin just sort of gave up and leaned over to one side?  Well, that is what my tragus and antitragus have done, leaving the concha a shallow bowl with no rim and little to no intertragical notch.  Looking at my ears front on view, both the tragus and antitragus lean outward in points, unlike the nice erect antitragus in your graphic.  Ears are ugly.  This is not a photo of my ear.  I'll be starting an Everted Antitragus Support Group soon.



Interesting!



> @mbwilson111 Do you like the Benjie X6?  I've been eyeing the Cayin N3 because of your comments.  Even though I adore my Zishan Z2 and "don't need" another source, I sort of like the idea of player to show album art.  Dagnab this website.



Get the Radsone ES100 bluetooth receiver and use your phone for the fancy album art. The upside is that it is an awesome gizmo and sounds awesome. The downside is that your days of DAP buying will be over with, and what's the fun in that?



> Oh yeah, sorry to turn this into a novel length post, but did the wing ding rings (from the VE EX pack) question get overlooked?  I think you mentioned in a long-ago post that @HungryPanda uses them at the gym.  I'd love to hear his pros/cons on them.  Anyone else have any luck with them?  I'm going to have to do something to secure the buds into my ears, otherwise I'll have to go to something like the bulky Koss clip ons that everyone likes.



Get the Koss KSC75's - problem solved!


----------



## ValSilva

waynes world said:


> The flat linquini cable is, um, not quite al dente


@waynes world I loved this pasta analogy and it makes me want to buy a fusilli cable to my Amperior  ha ha ha


----------



## Evoke

I am going to get a pair of Zeva Superfire to see what is the hype about all these earbuds. I would be quite happy if it sounds half as good as my Kanas


----------



## cyh03176

Evoke said:


> I am going to get a pair of Zeva Superfire to see what is the hype about all these earbuds. I would be quite happy if it sounds half as good as my Kanas



get them! i am still waiting for mine though. urgh the 2 days holiday in my country isn't helping at all. don't think i am getting it within this week.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Quick pic.

*ISN Rambo: First Bud*






--


----------



## assassin10000 (Jun 5, 2019)

@tnelmo

Here's a link to the earbud rings with fins. 
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32810617185.html


Also, you could try wearing your earbuds over ear style. That is point the earbud cable up and wrap it over the top and down around the back. See if that helps hold the bud in position. If so you could try a silicone sleeve they sell to wear cables over ear. This may also help you with some iems.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Hi to All. Sorry for bad English. It all started when I wasn’t comfortable wearing KOSS Porta / Sporta Pro. I decided to go back to the earbuds as I like the open type of headphones for the street as you can hear what is being done around and its very portable. The first I had were the Sennheiser MX 375 and then the AKG Y15. Then an acquaintance at work gave me listen to VE Monk Plus and then it all started. Search for the best sound.
After Monk+, I bought a Qian 25/69 and FENGRU EMX500. I also listened to friends at Sennheiser MX 475, VE Monk Lite 120 Ohm / Zen 2, Qian 39, YMHFPJ DIY MX500, Yincrow X6, Shozy Cygnus.

But I fell in love with the FENGRU EMX500 and used them for a year, but they bored me, the sound seems not so sweet anymore.

Then I bought T-Music V2, Toneking TP16, Vido, RY4S UE, HE 150Pro, FAAEAL Snow lotus 1.0 Plus.

And besides the EMX500, I loved Vido, RY4S UE, Snow-lotus 1.0 Plus.

But I need to move up, therefore I am here. Advise what to try next. Up to $50.


----------



## zazaboy

guys which earbud has the best detail retrieval for music?


----------



## chinmie

zazaboy said:


> guys which earbud has the best detail retrieval for music?


the ones i could think of is the Liebesleid and Mojito, although there might be more that i don't know since the last time i bought earbuds. 

but it won't be as detailed as IEMs though, because of the advantage of isolation


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 5, 2019)

zazaboy said:


> guys which earbud has the best detail retrieval for music?





chinmie said:


> the ones i could think of is the Liebesleid and Mojito, although there might be more that i don't know since the last time i bought earbuds.
> 
> but it won't be as detailed as IEMs though, because of the advantage of isolation


Mojito is mostly detailed because of its bright unforgoving upper mids and treble. It's resolution is good but not particularly higher than most other detailed earbuds. The dual driver setup might help keep bass under more control but the design means the bass driver has to pass sound from back to front and reflect off quite a few surfaces on the way thus creating some reflections. So all in all I don't think it's much higher if at all than your average well tuned single dynamic driver earbud.

I found the ks ling to be quite detailed, possibly due to the increased control from the extra strong magnet and fairly high impedance at 200ohm. You could say something similar about the zen 2.0 but it's sound is darker so you miss some detail from its recessed treble.

In conclusion id say most of these drivers have a similar level of overall resolution and transients. With some being slightly better than others through good design and slightly better matierials used.

Ourart ACG might be a candidate since it's an extra thin titanium coated driver and has a focus on mids-treble. Although if your looking for quality bass with good detail and impact maybe something else would suit better.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Zeva Superfire in underway... Anything else good there?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Oh my, I can't seem to listen to my Nhoord headphones anymore... extremely fatiguing now, something I have never experience before with them. I honestly find both pairs of ear buds to be better sounding... so very strange. Have earbuds ruined me? Anyone else find they favor their ear buds over their cans?


----------



## mbwilson111

WoodyLuvr said:


> Oh my, I can't seem to listen to my Nhoord headphones anymore... extremely fatiguing now, something I have never experience before with them. I honestly find both pairs of ear buds to be better sounding... so very strange. Have earbuds ruined me? Anyone else find they favor their ear buds over their cans?



Yes.


----------



## tnelmo

waynes world said:


> LOL - funny!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks @waynes world, I'm 60 and am just learning that the antitragus should be vertical.  Had I known, I could have encouraged/nagged it to stand up straight (like mom always said).  Actually, in 1992 my work brought in an audiologist to pour/mold a pseudo CIEM, which in this purpose, just snapped onto a small disc-shaped receiver with a boom mic.  I remember the lady being frustrated by the shape of my ear, with nothing under which to lock the thing securely.  She finally extended it up and around the nooks and crannies of the "legs of helix" area. 

I would never use Bluetooth, nor do I have a smartphone.  That would be a great solution for anyone willing to go that route.  I've wondered about the KSC75s, and may end up with a pair yet.




assassin10000 said:


> @tnelmo
> 
> Here's a link to the earbud rings with fins.
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32810617185.html
> ...



Thank you, thank you, thank you @assassin10000.  Don't know how you found the rings with fins, but I appreciate the link.  Will be ordering later today.  I spent the entire morning on this and I've actually worked out the IEM fitment problem.  It isn't so much needing something holding them into my ears, rather, I had never gotten them inserted at all.  I have tiny ear canals, it seems.  Another new discovery, and at my age.  I'll go into it further after I do some searches on the Chinese IEM forum, with specific questions I hope someone there will be willing to answer.  This surely isn't a rare problem.  I'll post a link to it on this thread once I post the other, in case anyone is interested in the outcome.


----------



## waynes world

tnelmo said:


> I would never use Bluetooth, nor do I have a smartphone.  That would be a great solution for anyone willing to go that route.



Wow - that's old school! I'm just a bit younger, but am thoroughly addicted to my smartphone (I had to survive without it for a few hours the other day - very challenging). So lucky you!

I was having fun on the DAPsterwheel for a while, and I still use them (for example, my X3 for when sleeping). But at some point I wanted to be able to stream (ie Tidal etc) as well as listen to flashdrive files, and DAPS with wifi were pretty expensive, and seemed to have bugs or limitations. The ES100/phone combo does the trick nicely for me.



> I've wondered about the KSC75s, and may end up with a pair yet.



Everyone should have the KSC75's. Giant killer classics. I put them on a headband though because I don't like the functionality of the clips. For whenever you're interested!
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kos...ant-killer-in-all-the-hidden-gem-hype.638757/


----------



## Themilkman46290

WoodyLuvr said:


> Oh my, I can't seem to listen to my Nhoord headphones anymore... extremely fatiguing now, something I have never experience before with them. I honestly find both pairs of ear buds to be better sounding... so very strange. Have earbuds ruined me? Anyone else find they favor their ear buds over their cans?


Yeah same here


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Wow - that's old school! I'm just a bit younger, but am thoroughly addicted to my smartphone (I had to survive without it for a few hours the other day - very challenging). So lucky you!



You do know that even with as much tech as I have, I too choose not to own a smartphone.



waynes world said:


> Everyone should have the KSC75's.



Absolutely!


----------



## cyh03176

WoodyLuvr said:


> Oh my, I can't seem to listen to my Nhoord headphones anymore... extremely fatiguing now, something I have never experience before with them. I honestly find both pairs of ear buds to be better sounding... so very strange. Have earbuds ruined me? Anyone else find they favor their ear buds over their cans?


i prefer my $15 earbud over my $699 iem


----------



## jogawag

Alex.Grimm said:


> Hi to All. Sorry for bad English. It all started when I wasn’t comfortable wearing KOSS Porta / Sporta Pro. I decided to go back to the earbuds as I like the open type of headphones for the street as you can hear what is being done around and its very portable. The first I had were the Sennheiser MX 375 and then the AKG Y15. Then an acquaintance at work gave me listen to VE Monk Plus and then it all started. Search for the best sound.
> After Monk+, I bought a Qian 25/69 and FENGRU EMX500. I also listened to friends at Sennheiser MX 475, VE Monk Lite 120 Ohm / Zen 2, Qian 39, YMHFPJ DIY MX500, Yincrow X6, Shozy Cygnus.
> 
> But I fell in love with the FENGRU EMX500 and used them for a year, but they bored me, the sound seems not so sweet anymore.
> ...



Since you like the MX500 type Shell and you are seemed a little bass-head, I recommend Willsound MK2 ($ 34).
If you can afford the money, I recommend the Willsound MK2 VJC 3.5mm ($ 45) with upgraded cables (I have never listened to this, but it has a good reputation).

You can buy them below.
http://www.rholupat.com/willsound-mk2.html
http://www.rholupat.com/willsound-mk2-vjc-35mm.html

Reference of sound:
https://aftersoundblog.wordpress.co...son-english-vers-mk1-mk2-mk3-mk300-pk16-pk32/


----------



## tnelmo

I tried the Cosmic Hippo track @mbwilson111 recommended a while back for testing bass.  The IEMs that I finally managed to insert were OK with it, the ATE being best of the 3, but the Monk+ were amazing on that track, multiples more bass and at half the volume.  I certainly hope the rings with wings/fins work for me.  In a month when they arrive, I'll let you all know.  Until I find a solution, I'll hold off on ordering my earbud upgrade.  I appreciate the input you folks gave.


----------



## mbwilson111

tnelmo said:


> I tried the Cosmic Hippo track @mbwilson111 recommended a while back for testing bass.  The IEMs that I finally managed to insert were OK with it, the ATE being best of the 3, but the Monk+ were amazing on that track, multiples more bass and at half the volume.  I certainly hope the rings with wings/fins work for me.  In a month when they arrive, I'll let you all know.  Until I find a solution, I'll hold off on ordering my earbud upgrade.  I appreciate the input you folks gave.



Could you also hear the banjo?  There is other stuff going on...


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Jun 5, 2019)

jogawag said:


> You are seemed a little bass-head, I recommend Willsound MK2


What's differents between MK2 and MK3, which is better for rock/metal? Where is more bass?


----------



## jogawag (Jun 5, 2019)

Alex.Grimm said:


> What's differents between MK2 and MK3, which is better for rock/metal? Where is more bass?



I have not listen to MK3.
Please read "Reference of sound:".


jogawag said:


> ...
> Reference of sound:
> https://aftersoundblog.wordpress.co...son-english-vers-mk1-mk2-mk3-mk300-pk16-pk32/


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> You do know that even with as much tech as I have, I too choose not to own a smartphone.



What is wrong with you people!


----------



## FastAndClean

WoodyLuvr said:


> Oh my, I can't seem to listen to my Nhoord headphones anymore... extremely fatiguing now, something I have never experience before with them. I honestly find both pairs of ear buds to be better sounding... so very strange. Have earbuds ruined me? Anyone else find they favor their ear buds over their cans?


i find my OURART ACG better sounding than the Sennheiser HD700, and that was a 999$ headphone back in the day


----------



## tnelmo

For any of you who read of my everted antitragus and my subsequent inability to retain earbuds, be watching your televisions for my new public service announcement.  It beings with a very sad man with big eyes staring right into the camera.  As the trembling empathetic voiceover begins, "For just 39 cents per day, you can help these poor wanna-be audiophiles find a solution to this horrible problem...", the man's earbud falls out of his ear in ultra slow motion.  His sad eyes turn downward in defeat as a single tear falls.  I thought a nice touch would also be to have a lady sitting in her chair on the commuter train, occupied with her phone.  As she turns her head, you notice the duck tape "X" she has placed over her earbuds and wrapped over her upscale hairstyle.  OK, I'm still working on it.  May never happen.  It amuses me, so.

Here is a link to my next newly discovered ear related problem, tiny ear canals.  I didn't want to upset anyone with excessive talk of IEMs, so I put it elsewhere.  Perhaps there are some of you who also have IEM collections who could provide info.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...reference-list.805930/page-1214#post-14992791


As related to the anatomy of the ear, I'm a hot mess. 




mbwilson111 said:


> Could you also hear the banjo?  There is other stuff going on...



I was concentrating on that bass drop at 2:27, comparing the newly inserted IEMs to the Monk+, but now that I've gone back and listened to the whole track, yeah banjo is great, also love the harmonica.  That track is a real find.


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> What is wrong with you people!



Nothing is wrong with me.

It's everyone else.


----------



## cyh03176

tnelmo said:


> For any of you who read of my everted antitragus and my subsequent inability to retain earbuds, be watching your televisions for my new public service announcement.  It beings with a very sad man with big eyes staring right into the camera.  As the trembling empathetic voiceover begins, "For just 39 cents per day, you can help these poor wanna-be audiophiles find a solution to this horrible problem...", the man's earbud falls out of his ear in ultra slow motion.  His sad eyes turn downward in defeat as a single tear falls.  I thought a nice touch would also be to have a lady sitting in her chair on the commuter train, occupied with her phone.  As she turns her head, you notice the duck tape "X" she has placed over her earbuds and wrapped over her upscale hairstyle.  OK, I'm still working on it.  May never happen.  It amuses me, so.
> 
> Here is a link to my next newly discovered ear related problem, tiny ear canals.  I didn't want to upset anyone with excessive talk of IEMs, so I put it elsewhere.  Perhaps there are some of you who also have IEM collections who could provide info.
> 
> ...


true, there is nothing a duct tape can't fix. try taping the earphones/earbuds to your ears


----------



## mbwilson111

tnelmo said:


> I was concentrating on that bass drop at 2:27, comparing the newly inserted IEMs to the Monk+, but now that I've gone back and listened to the whole track, yeah banjo is great, also love the harmonica. That track is a real find.



That whole album is a classic. I have had the cd for years and years.  Bela Fleck is a 16 time Grammy Award winning banjoist.

https://www.belafleck.com/


----------



## tnelmo

I have tons of instrumental, jazz, new age, classical, solo piano, solo guitar, etc., but truly don't give it the time it deserves.  Gonna have to set up a separate SD card and keep it handy.  Still figuring all this out.


----------



## wskl

waynes world said:


> What is wrong with you people!



They are just being smart, they will not get tracked or spied on by governments and tech companies 

I am semi-smart, I have a smartphone but I just use it as a regular phone for making calls and occasional texting, I have no data plan because I am not invested in the whole social media thing, just use a regular old 2G sim card.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 5, 2019)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Oh my, I can't seem to listen to my Nhoord headphones anymore... extremely fatiguing now, something I have never experience before with them. I honestly find both pairs of ear buds to be better sounding... so very strange. Have earbuds ruined me? Anyone else find they favor their ear buds over their cans?


Your brain probably just needs to adjust? Unless the nhoords have some nasty treble spikes or are very bright (i thought they were more neutral than the grado house sound right though?)

Or you could just put an extra layer of foam under the grado pads to tame the highs a bit more although not sure how that would effect the sound with grado pads.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

seanc6441 said:


> Your brain probably just needs to adjust? Unless the nhoords have some nasty treble spikes or are very bright (i thought they were more neutral than the grado house sound right though?)
> 
> Or you could just put an extra layer of foam under the grado pads to tame the highs a bit more although not sure how that would effect the sound with grado pads.


That was what I was thinking about a week or so ago but it has remained unchanged... I used my Nhoords four days straight (no earbuds usage) until last night when I just had to switch back. Even though my Nhoords are feather-light I wonder if I am experiencing some form of physical fatigue (spoiled by super feather-light and low-profile ear buds) due to a completely enclosed ear which is causing heat build-up and some slight pressure differential.

No, my Nhoords are extremely warm in comparison to Grados but that may still be a key factor you are proposing as my Blurs and PureSounds may be much darker and warmer than I thought!


----------



## assassin10000

tnelmo said:


> Thank you, thank you, thank you @assassin10000.  Don't know how you found the rings with fins, but I appreciate the link.  Will be ordering later today.



No problem. I found them while searching for silicone ear tips and thought I should bookmark those lol. Had them saved from a few months ago.


----------



## chinmie (Jun 6, 2019)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Oh my, I can't seem to listen to my Nhoord headphones anymore... extremely fatiguing now, something I have never experience before with them. I honestly find both pairs of ear buds to be better sounding... so very strange. Have earbuds ruined me? Anyone else find they favor their ear buds over their cans?



earbuds usually have a closer vocal, thicker in mids, and sound more intimate than headphones, while headphone sounded more spaced out and wider. so depending on your preference now, the earbuds might sound more "right" for you. but occasionally it is refreshing to switch from time to time

to be honest i don't listen to headphones anymore and i only have two: an old ATH M50 that has too many memories to get rid of, and an R70X that i like the sound a lot. i heard many other headphones on meets with friends, and nothing interest me anymore.

my earbuds are a good enough substitute without the hassles of storing headphones


----------



## WoodyLuvr

chinmie said:


> earbuds usually have a closer vocal, thicker in mids, and sound more intimate than headphones, while headphone sounded more spaced out and wider. so depending on your preference now, the earbuds might sound more "right" for you. but occasionally it is refreshing to switch from time to time
> 
> to be honest i don't listen to headphones anymore and i only have two: an old ATH M50 that has too many memories to get rid of, and an R70X that i like the sound a lot. i heard many other headphones on meets with friends, and nothing interest me anymore.
> 
> my earbuds are a good enough substitute without the hassles of storing headphones


Nice observation there mate... food for thought. Thank you for sharing that  Cheers.


----------



## MisterMudd

chinmie said:


> earbuds usually have a closer vocal, thicker in mids, and sound more intimate than headphones, while headphone sounded more spaced out and wider. so depending on your preference now, the earbuds might sound more "right" for you. but occasionally it is refreshing to switch from time to time
> 
> to be honest i don't listen to headphones anymore and i only have two: an old ATH M50 that has too many memories to get rid of, and an R70X that i like the sound a lot. i heard many other headphones on meets with friends, and nothing interest me anymore.
> 
> my earbuds are a good enough substitute without the hassles of storing headphones


Dang it, I wish I could get to that point of view. I quit buying headphones a while back, but still finding I have that urge in the background. Must continue to resist. Staying on this website for several years seems to have produced a hypnotic state of want.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 6, 2019)

So the hype has somewhat worn off the st-10. Maybe. I have funds right now, do I buy it? Is it worth my monies? 

The measurements shown awhile back intrigued me a lot. I love that the bass peaks around 45-60hz. That's a nice sweet spot for a deep punch just before the rumble of the deep sub bass.

Only question is, are the low mids sufficiently full? Like neutral in comparision to the mid bass and upper mids? I don't want a thin sounding midrange on a new earbud. Anybody who can fill me in who owns the st10 id appreciate it!


----------



## activatorfly (Jun 6, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> So the hype has somewhat worn off the st-10. Maybe. I have funds right now, do I buy it? Is it worth my monies?
> 
> The measurements shown awhile back intrigued me a lot. I love that the bass peaks around 45-60hz. That's a nice sweet spot for a deep punch just before the rumble of the deep sub bass.
> 
> Only question is, are the low mids sufficiently full? Like neutral in comparision to the mid bass and upper mids? I don't want a thin sounding midrange on a new earbud. Anybody who can fill me in who owns the st10 id appreciate it!


Been listening to both batches recently, (early & the fixed version.) They do have a balanced sound sig with great sub-bass quantity.....however they can sound too bright / analytical & cold. Hence, they are definitely less engaging when listening to vocals, classical and jazz.....So tbh it might be advisable to look elsewhere imho!


----------



## DBaldock9

seanc6441 said:


> So the hype has somewhat worn off the st-10. Maybe. I have funds right now, do I buy it? Is it worth my monies?
> 
> The measurements shown awhile back intrigued me a lot. I love that the bass peaks around 45-60hz. That's a nice sweet spot for a deep punch just before the rumble of the deep sub bass.
> 
> Only question is, are the low mids sufficiently full? Like neutral in comparision to the mid bass and upper mids? I don't want a thin sounding midrange on a new earbud. Anybody who can fill me in who owns the st10 id appreciate it!



I'll admit to having "NTS" (_New Toy Syndrome_), and have been listening more to the homemade 600Ω Beryllium earbuds, in metal housings w/MMCX, that I recently assembled.
But if I didn't have that set, the MMCX earbuds I'd be listening to the most - would be the ST-10.
They're just behind the K's K600, as far as Bass quantity / quality / detail - without having boosted or muddy sounding Mid-Bass.


----------



## mbwilson111

MisterMudd said:


> Staying on this website for several years seems to have produced a hypnotic state of want.



That is EXACTLY what it is.  Does this mean we would have to leave headfi to cure that?  I would be sad to leave...


----------



## subwoof3r

seanc6441 said:


> So the hype has somewhat worn off the st-10. Maybe. I have funds right now, do I buy it? Is it worth my monies?
> 
> The measurements shown awhile back intrigued me a lot. I love that the bass peaks around 45-60hz. That's a nice sweet spot for a deep punch just before the rumble of the deep sub bass.
> 
> Only question is, are the low mids sufficiently full? Like neutral in comparision to the mid bass and upper mids? I don't want a thin sounding midrange on a new earbud. Anybody who can fill me in who owns the st10 id appreciate it!



I found my second batch (which have MMCX connectors fix) a bit more "brighty", there is a little more mids especially. It needs to be tamed depending on the cable used and of course a full thick foam are obliged. So its a bit of lotery I would say. Anyway, I prefer it to my first batch, clearly. Brillant sounding. They are still my best none-DIY reference for now  and I listened many...


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Hello Guys,

I'm trying to search for earbuds in taobao. I don't know anything about the language but I was able to build a "Chinese search string for earbuds". I'm just sharing it to help everybody that is trying to find earbuds in Taobao:

平头耳塞式属耳机 HIFI 睡觉塞

Can anybody improve this string? In my search it filtered earbuds, but any improvement is really welcome.


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> That is EXACTLY what it is.  Does this mean we would have to leave headfi to cure that?  I would be sad to leave...


I tried leaving twice - thought my last two pairs of full-sized cans had "cured" me - alas to no avail....haha!
- the addiction is kind of encapsulated by the Eagles Lyrics for "Hotel California"

"Last thing I remember
I was running for the door
I had to find the passage back to the place I was before
"Relax," said the night man
"We are programmed to receive
You can check-out any time you like
But you can never leave!"


----------



## cyh03176

Marcos Fontana said:


> Hello Guys,
> 
> I'm trying to search for earbuds in taobao. I don't know anything about the language but I was able to build a "Chinese search string for earbuds". I'm just sharing it to help everybody that is trying to find earbuds in Taobao:
> 
> ...


i usually just use "平头耳".


----------



## Marcos Fontana

cyh03176 said:


> i usually just use "平头耳".


Thank you! It worked. I saw that mines returned the "Hifi" but yours returned every earbud.


----------



## tnelmo

mbwilson111 said:


> That is EXACTLY what it is.  Does this mean we would have to leave headfi to cure that?  I would be sad to leave...



And I know I have that gene.  I bought one Chinese fountain pen to see if it wrote well, and suddenly I have 67.  It would be so easy to repeat that with audio.


----------



## mbwilson111

tnelmo said:


> And I know I have that gene.  I bought one Chinese fountain pen to see if it wrote well, and suddenly I have 67.  It would be so easy to repeat that with audio.



Yes, look at the gear list in my profile for proof.  Less than three years on headfi...oops.


----------



## cyh03176

Marcos Fontana said:


> Thank you! It worked. I saw that mines returned the "Hifi" but yours returned every earbud.


yea because the search engine sucks. it only search matching keywords.


tnelmo said:


> And I know I have that gene.  I bought one Chinese fountain pen to see if it wrote well, and suddenly I have 67.  It would be so easy to repeat that with audio.


which fountain pen with the finest tip do you recommend for writing?


----------



## seanc6441

Marcos Fontana said:


> Thank you! It worked. I saw that mines returned the "Hifi" but yours returned every earbud.


https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/de....list.19&id=531327052936&item_id=531327052936


This one looks so nice for $13. That shell alone...


----------



## tnelmo

wskl said:


> They are just being smart, they will not get tracked or spied on by governments and tech companies
> 
> I am semi-smart, I have a smartphone but I just use it as a regular phone for making calls and occasional texting, I have no data plan because I am not invested in the whole social media thing, just use a regular old 2G sim card.




I have a dumb TracFone and buy a few minutes occasionally to keep it in service, mostly for emergencies.  This forum is the closest I get to social media.  I was on FB for a month back in ~2007, until I heard they weren't allowing people to completely close accounts.   

To try and veer from this rant to something close to back on topic, I sometimes try to use that phone's music player with my earbuds, but it is very unstable and tries to reload the SD card's contents each time.  Happens with every card I try, from 2GB to 16GB.  When it actually plays, the Monk+ earbuds sound great with it.  Thankfully, I only try to use it in situations like an abnormally long wait in a doctor's office, when I haven't thought to bring my Zishan Z2.


----------



## cyh03176

seanc6441 said:


> https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/de....list.19&id=531327052936&item_id=531327052936
> 
> 
> This one looks so nice for $13. That shell alone...


very nice indeed but the description is contradicting itself. first it says driver is made in indonesia then it is made in malaysia


----------



## tnelmo

mbwilson111 said:


> Yes, look at the gear list in my profile for proof.  Less than three years on headfi...oops.



OMG, how is that even possible.  If I multiply 3 years by 365 days/yr, I believe you have more items than 1/day. 



cyh03176 said:


> yea because the search engine sucks. it only search matching keywords.
> 
> which fountain pen with the finest tip do you recommend for writing?



I can't really recommend the Chi-pens for daily writing, as most are metal and heavy.  Of the few all plastic lightweight pens, I'd recommend the Duke Uranus 620, but I don't believe it is available any more.  Most of their nibs are pretty average too.  I enjoy copperplate style writing, so I've replaced a few nibs with Japanese "G" nibs that give a heavier line with more pressure, yet can produce a very fine line with little pressure.

@mbwilson111, I can recall you saying in past posts that you enjoy your music through earbuds, IEMs, and headphones.  How much action does your Sonos system get?


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 6, 2019)

activatorfly said:


> Been listening to both batches recently, (early & the fixed version.) They do have a balanced sound sig with great sub-bass quantity.....however they can sound too bright / analytical & cold. Hence, they are definitely less engaging when listening to vocals, classical and jazz.....So tbh it might be advisable to look elsewhere imho!


I don't mind analytical-cold as long as its not achieved by a low mid suck out or dip. I do mind bright upper mid peaks-treble, my ears dont like that.

Pity there's some variance between units and those peak/s are present. I'd rather a slight dip in the upper frequencies than the lower. It's easy to forget dips in the treble but not in the low mids or bass.

I assume you are using full foams? Which kind are they, regular density or something like thicker hiegi foams?


----------



## cyh03176

tnelmo said:


> I can't really recommend the Chi-pens for daily writing, as most are metal and heavy.  Of the few all plastic lightweight pens, I'd recommend the Duke Uranus 620, but I don't believe it is available any more.  Most of their nibs are pretty average too.  I enjoy copperplate style writing, so I've replaced a few nibs with Japanese "G" nibs that give a heavier line with more pressure, yet can produce a very fine line with little pressure.



one last question, is chinese EF nib finer than the european EF nib?


----------



## Willber

tnelmo said:


> And I know I have that gene.  I bought one Chinese fountain pen to see if it wrote well, and suddenly I have 67.  It would be so easy to repeat that with audio.


I have about that many ear/headphones including 'spares'.
I console my self with the fact that my favourite only cost $5 - until I think of the $1000 I've spent to get here. 
Then I realise that some people spend that much or more on one set of phones and I cheer up again.


----------



## tnelmo

cyh03176 said:


> one last question, is chinese EF nib finer than the european EF nib?



Sorry, I couldn't tell you.  There is a fountain pen forum under the Gear-Fi heading.  Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than me could help.


----------



## cyh03176

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...MjtrnI&id=588155109681&ns=1&abbucket=2#detail

I found this Audirect earbuds on Taobao. They claim that they are using N54 magnet in there. afaik Zeva E.Lord and K's Bell-Ti are using N55.

Audirect brand should be fine? Since they are making a reputable usb dac


----------



## mbwilson111

tnelmo said:


> OMG, how is that even possible.  If I multiply 3 years by 365 days/yr, I believe you have more items than 1/day.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not as much as it used to.  We need to update the music that it has access to.  I only got into all of this because of my husband @HungryPanda  .  Take a look at his list.  He is the true addict here. I just try to keep up.  I really loved the speaker based system I had in Michigan.  My passion is music not gear.  When I moved here I brought my 2000 CDs with me.

I have so much because I get curious.  I am not chasing anything.  There is no endgame.

BTW there is a thread called Let's Talk About Pens ...get your photos ready!


----------



## tnelmo

mbwilson111 said:


> ...I only got into all of this because of my husband @HungryPanda  .  Take a look at his list.  He is the true addict here....



Cute


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> Not as much as it used to.  We need to update the music that it has access to.  I only got into all of this because of my husband @HungryPanda  .  Take a look at his list.  He is the true addict here. I just try to keep up.



I'm not impressed - there is no Yincrow RW-9 in that list.


Seriously, my scrolling finger gets tired looking through HP's list - I'm impressed!


----------



## activatorfly

seanc6441 said:


> I don't mind analytical-cold as long as its not achieved by a low mid suck out or dip. I do mind bright upper mid peaks-treble, my ears dont like that.
> 
> Pity there's some variance between units and those peak/s are present. I'd rather a slight dip in the upper frequencies than the lower. It's easy to forget dips in the treble but not in the low mids or bass.
> 
> I assume you are using full foams? Which kind are they, regular density or something like thicker hiegi foams?


Using a combination of thin density full & donut foams that were supplied in the box. My VE Ex Pack & hiegi foams are attached to other buds.


----------



## rkw

cyh03176 said:


> which fountain pen with the finest tip do you recommend for writing?


Are you sure you want to know? One thing will lead to another until you have 67 fountain pens.


----------



## cyh03176

rkw said:


> Are you sure you want to know? One thing will lead to another until you have 67 fountain pens.



nah im not that crazy when it comes to fountain pens. i only have 2 lamy(s) now. one for signature (M size), one for writing but even F is too thick for me, I think i will get a third one with a EF tip


----------



## coflaes

cyh03176 said:


> i prefer my $15 earbud over my $699 iem


Hi, wich ones?


----------



## cyh03176

coflaes said:


> Hi, wich ones?


tingo tg-38s instead of dita answer (only for low res source though, like spotify or movies or games)


----------



## BadReligionPunk

mbwilson111 said:


> That is EXACTLY what it is.  Does this mean we would have to leave headfi to cure that?  I would be sad to leave...


Therapy helps. Lol


----------



## cyh03176

BadReligionPunk said:


> Therapy helps. Lol


someone needs to make a support group for gear acquisition syndrome here at head-fi


----------



## waynes world

cyh03176 said:


> someone needs to make a support group for gear acquisition syndrome here at head-fi



We're it!


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 6, 2019)

waynes world said:


> We're it!



Ready to help others who want to acquire more gear


----------



## JimBob85

Hey guys, I am looking for a recommendation on which earbuds to purchase. I currently only have IEMs and full size cans, and looking to try out earbuds to see if I might prefer them.

What are the best earbuds currently available at the $150 or less price point for:

1) Best mids, mid centric type of sound - similar to Shure SE535
2) Best full lush sound, with particularly great mids and bass


----------



## Willber

waynes world said:


> We're it!


Then we're all doomed...


----------



## cyh03176

JimBob85 said:


> Hey guys, I am looking for a recommendation on which earbuds to purchase. I currently only have IEMs and full size cans, and looking to try out earbuds to see if I might prefer them.
> 
> What are the best earbuds currently available at the $150 or less price point for:
> 
> ...


welcome to the earbuds world. earbuds can have range of impedance from 16Ω to 600Ω. so i think it is good for you to put down what kind of equipment you will be using the earbuds with.


----------



## JimBob85

Thanks @cyh03176 

I am currently using an iPhone with lighting/headphone adapter as a source. However I also have a dedicated DAP on order so I will not too limited by harder to drive headphones. The more important qualities are the sound quality and secondly value for money aspect.

For reference, I am currently using Final Audio E2000 IEMs and find them amazing, love the full sound.


----------



## cyh03176

JimBob85 said:


> Thanks @cyh03176
> 
> I am currently using an iPhone with lighting/headphone adapter as a source. However I also have a dedicated DAP on order so I will not too limited by harder to drive headphones. The more important qualities are the sound quality and secondly value for money aspect.
> 
> For reference, I am currently using Final Audio E2000 IEMs and find them amazing, love the full sound.


i recommend tingo tg-38s if you still can get it (just did a search in aliexpress, apparently sold out). punchy bass, sweet mid, non-sibilant high. sounds crystal clear and full for me. but sure, wait for other people's recommendation as well. $150 can get a lot of earbuds  that tingo only cost me $11


----------



## MelodyMood

*Does anyone has or know Technical Specifications of Old Classic Round Apple Earbuds? Not the Earpod or AirPod one but the old classic. Ideally the 1st gen or may be 2bd Gen is also fine. I posted image link to them earlier. 

I basically want to know the Driver Size and Freq Response. *


----------



## ClieOS

cyh03176 said:


> i recommend tingo tg-38s if you still can get it (just did a search in aliexpress, apparently sold out). punchy bass, sweet mid, non-sibilant high. sounds crystal clear and full for me. but sure, wait for other people's recommendation as well. $150 can get a lot of earbuds  that tingo only cost me $11



It is silly that Tingo tried to market TG-38s as using MX985's driver as it sounds nowhere near a MX985, nor actually using a MX985 driver. Plenty of sub-$15 earbuds can match or supersede TG-38s


----------



## JimBob85

Hi  @ClieOS 

What are your top recommended earbuds that are currently best value for money, and provide full lush sound across the spectrum, particuarly mids and bass at or under the $150 mark?


----------



## handwander (Jun 7, 2019)

Anything new with a shozy / yuin shell 

Also someone sell me their Zen Lites


----------



## GREQ

MelodyMood said:


> *Does anyone has or know Technical Specifications of Old Classic Round Apple Earbuds? Not the Earpod or AirPod one but the old classic. Ideally the 1st gen or may be 2bd Gen is also fine. I posted image link to them earlier.
> 
> I basically want to know the Driver Size and Freq Response. *



I measured my set. It's the version that came bundled with my iPod Classic Gen 6 (2007).
For this measurement I added foams, as the measurements get really unreliable without a half decent 'seal' on my miniDSP EARS jig. 
They're not made for measuring buds at all, so pinch o' salt and the usual... the curve is compensated with the IEM compensation files.


----------



## ClieOS

GREQ said:


> I measured my set. It's the version that came bundled with my iPod Classic Gen 6 (2007).



I thought the iPod Clasaic 6 gen. has the 2nd generation iBud? He is looking for the much rarer 1st gen. iBud.


----------



## GREQ

ClieOS said:


> I thought the iPod Clasaic 6 gen. has the 2nd generation iBud? He is looking for the much rarer 1st gen. iBud.


Ah ok, that wasn't clear from the original post, since no images provided.


----------



## bigtim

Any tips for getting more bass from the Smabat ST-10? Having bought too many earbuds the Yincrow X6 and Fengru DIY EMX500 get used the most. Having read a few reviews of the ST-10 I thought they would suit my taste. Ran them in for 20hrs and tried them this morning - only managed 15mins before going back to the X6 as they felt too bright, not enough fullness. Will have a look in the mirror later to see if I'm not putting them in fully as pushing them in a little with my fingers makes them sound fantastic. They are being driven by an iBasso DX220 with EQ turned off.


----------



## cyh03176

ClieOS said:


> It is silly that Tingo tried to market TG-38s as using MX985's driver as it sounds nowhere near a MX985, nor actually using a MX985 driver. Plenty of sub-$15 earbuds can match or supersede TG-38s


can zeva superfire supercedes tg-38s? any other earbuds that you recommend under $20?

i don't care what aliexpress says regarding tingo since they are all reseller. but if i see the official store in taobao, tingo tg-38s is described as "TinGo听哥TG-38S平头耳塞式 *类似*MX985/A8 HIFI*人声乐器音乐耳机*", which means similar to MX985/A8 and never once in the description saying it is using MX985 driver. I believe the reseller got confused (like i was once) because Tingo actually uses tg-38s shell for tc200. tc200 is the one which is using the MX985 driver or so they claim.

i am not saying that i am right, boss. merely giving Tingo the benefit of the doubt.


----------



## assassin10000

bigtim said:


> Any tips for getting more bass from the Smabat ST-10? Having bought too many earbuds the Yincrow X6 and Fengru DIY EMX500 get used the most. Having read a few reviews of the ST-10 I thought they would suit my taste. Ran them in for 20hrs and tried them this morning - only managed 15mins before going back to the X6 as they felt too bright, not enough fullness. Will have a look in the mirror later to see if I'm not putting them in fully as pushing them in a little with my fingers makes them sound fantastic. They are being driven by an iBasso DX220 with EQ turned off.



The ST-10 shape is 'thinner' than an MX500 shell. Perhaps you need to do a full foam with donut foam on top to make it seal correctly in your ear?


----------



## wskl

handwander said:


> Anything new with a shozy / yuin shell
> 
> Also someone sell me their Zen Lites



ISN Audio Rambo


----------



## bigtim

assassin10000 said:


> The ST-10 shape is 'thinner' than an MX500 shell. Perhaps you need to do a full foam with donut foam on top to make it seal correctly in your ear?



Good thinking! I use full foams on all my earbuds but I will give this a try. It's taken a while to get to grips with putting foams on so on to the next challenge. Thanks @assassin10000


----------



## WoodyLuvr

*What is your primary ear bud foam cover type and set up? << Poll Here*


----------



## cyh03176

WoodyLuvr said:


> *What is your primary ear bud foam cover type and set up? << Poll Here*


where to buy different thickness of foam?


----------



## handwander

wskl said:


> ISN Audio Rambo


Borderline shocked there actually is something lol. Will have to look up reviews.


----------



## blati (Jun 7, 2019)

Can you compare Rose masya pro to Hi-z hp650?

I have heard hp650 but not Masya pro...


----------



## mbwilson111

cyh03176 said:


> where to buy different thickness of foam?



My favorites are the Trig Rain ones from Aliexpress.  I consider them medium thick and they come in many colors (for an extra fun factor}.  I have a photo somewhere  in this thread but have just put it in that Poll Thread.


----------



## cyh03176

mbwilson111 said:


> My favorites are the Trig Rain ones from Aliexpress.  I consider them medium thick and they come in many colors (for an extra fun factor}.  I have a photo somewhere  in this thread but have just put it in that Poll Thread.


thanks! bought 20 pairs full and 20 pairs donut from them


----------



## DBaldock9

mbwilson111 said:


> My favorites are the Trig Rain ones from Aliexpress.  I consider them medium thick and they come in many colors (for an extra fun factor}.  I have a photo somewhere  in this thread but have just put it in that Poll Thread.



~$6.50 for 100 pairs - https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...nt-Sponge-Covers-Tips/518946_32696147273.html


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 7, 2019)

bigtim said:


> Good thinking! I use full foams on all my earbuds but I will give this a try. It's taken a while to get to grips with putting foams on so on to the next challenge. Thanks @assassin10000


If you want to get really technical you can try a special trick I used on my rose mojito for awhile to tame brightness and improve seal.

You need this double sided 3mm tape https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32878690067.html

You need 1 full foam cut into a flat disk (remove the back part so its just a flat circle/disk)

Then you need one more foam, either full, donut or multi hole modded.

Here's what to do:

You apply some tape around the edge of the earbud cover and remove the film to reveal both sticky sides, put the flat disk of foam over the front covering the driver area and press it down on the sticky tape on all the edge parimeter. This will secure the foam disk to the earbud.

Now you apply the final foam over the earbud. Try a full foam first, and if its too dull sounding try donut or multi hole to bring back some treble.

The result is a foam that is thicker and has more dampening to reduce treble, but isn't too bulky on the sides or back so as to cause discomfort or a bad fit.


----------



## Willber

DBaldock9 said:


> ~$6.50 for 100 pairs - https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...nt-Sponge-Covers-Tips/518946_32696147273.html


For me that shows as $3.42.


----------



## DBaldock9

Willber said:


> For me that shows as $3.42.



I was adding in the Shipping costs...


----------



## Willber

DBaldock9 said:


> I was adding in the Shipping costs...


Doh, I didn't scroll down!


----------



## cyh03176

DBaldock9 said:


> ~$6.50 for 100 pairs - https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...nt-Sponge-Covers-Tips/518946_32696147273.html


i noticed that

thanks but i don't need that many!


----------



## RuFrost

bigtim said:


> Any tips for getting more bass from the Smabat ST-10? Having bought too many earbuds the Yincrow X6 and Fengru DIY EMX500 get used the most. Having read a few reviews of the ST-10 I thought they would suit my taste. Ran them in for 20hrs and tried them this morning - only managed 15mins before going back to the X6 as they felt too bright, not enough fullness. Will have a look in the mirror later to see if I'm not putting them in fully as pushing them in a little with my fingers makes them sound fantastic. They are being driven by an iBasso DX220 with EQ turned off.


get good cable with extra bass notes or the one which underlines the bass more)


----------



## DBaldock9

cyh03176 said:


> i noticed that
> 
> thanks but i don't need that many!



Never say never...


----------



## chinmie

cyh03176 said:


> i noticed that
> 
> thanks but i don't need that many!



well, for that price, it's better to buy it, use a few, and be a santa claus for the rest


----------



## assassin10000

Same as the trig rain medium thick ones. $2 for 100.

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32607003829.html


----------



## raghav20

Received the RY4SUE some days back and been listening to them and all i gotta say is thank you @HungryPanda for the recommendation. The vocals are clear and overall sound is pretty good


----------



## cyh03176 (Jun 8, 2019)

Zeva Superfire. It is finally here. Simply amazing.


----------



## JimBob85

Hi guys can anyone recommend best earbuds under 150 for best full lush sound , good bass and mids , and value for money? Sorry I am not great at describing sound. Or is there a latest updated best earbud list that you can recommend to look at? Thanks in advance


----------



## Evoke

cyh03176 said:


> Zeva Superfire. It is finally here. Simply amazing.


Nice! 
I should be receiving mine mid next week.
I just realize taobao is an excellent source to buy some made in China audio products and they are cheaper than buying from other sources


----------



## bigtim

seanc6441 said:


> If you want to get really technical you can try a special trick I used on my rose mojito for awhile to tame brightness and improve seal.
> 
> You need this double sided 3mm tape https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32878690067.html
> 
> ...



@seanc6441 wow - that sounds very intricate! Having spent the last 20mins trying unsuccessfully to get a doughnut over a foam I may not have the dexterity for either task. I'm going back for round 2 with the doughnut, I will not be defeated!!




RuFrost said:


> get good cable with extra bass notes or the one which underlines the bass more)



@RuFrost tried the cable from the iBasso IT01 and it does take the edge off (the smabat cable on the IT01 calms the bass down so it's a good swap). I can still hear a big difference when i gently rest a finger on the top of the Smabat so hopefully the cable + foam / doughnut tweak will be the one


----------



## cyh03176

Evoke said:


> Nice!
> I should be receiving mine mid next week.
> I just realize taobao is an excellent source to buy some made in China audio products and they are cheaper than buying from other sources


not to mention taobao has way more diy products than aliexpress


----------



## activatorfly

cyh03176 said:


> Zeva Superfire. It is finally here. Simply amazing.



Looking forward to mine!


----------



## Evoke

cyh03176 said:


> not to mention taobao has way more diy products than aliexpress


Moondrop and Aune products are so much cheaper from Taobao


----------



## Willber

bigtim said:


> @seanc6441 wow - that sounds very intricate! Having spent the last 20mins trying unsuccessfully to get a doughnut over a foam I may not have the dexterity for either task. I'm going back for round 2 with the doughnut, I will not be defeated!!


Make sure you stretch it first, then put it on all the way over and try to fit it by pulling it towards you.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 8, 2019)

WoodyLuvr said:


> The cable on my old PureSounds PS100-600S 600Ω is dying... thinking on either re-cabling or simply replacing them with a pair of PureSounds PS-100 500Ω or K's K600/K500 as I desire the same ear-friendly sound signature. Any/all advice welcome.





chinmie said:


> if you or someone can recable it without messing with the original tuning, then recable it would be better. K's and Puresound have a different tuning, usually K's have really warm midbass while puresound is more neutral





seanc6441 said:


> You've built custom grados, recabling these buds should be a breeze for you . I say recable them! You can use the same thickness cable to not distrupt the tuning.


Well that was a grand disaster... I destroyed my PureSounds in a feeble attempt to re-wire them. Way too small for my unsteady hands and cheapo soldering iron. LOL.

Now I need to figure out a replacement for them ... any suggestions for a warm (almost dark) sounding ear bud for very long listening sessions.


----------



## mbwilson111

WoodyLuvr said:


> Well that was a grand disaster... I destroyed my PureSounds in a feeble attempt to re-wire them. Way too small for my unsteady hands and cheapo soldering iron. LOL.
> 
> Now I need to figure out a replacement for them ... any suggestions for a warm (almost dark) sounding ear bud for very long listening sessions.



If you are on FB, join Earbuds Anonymous if you have not already.  There are so many guys on there making buds in Thailand, Indonesia and other places.  Someone on there might have a suggestion or even be able to make one for you.  The photos on that site are phenomenal.

How much did the PureSounds cost?


----------



## chinmie

WoodyLuvr said:


> Well that was a grand disaster... I destroyed my PureSounds in a feeble attempt to re-wire them. Way too small for my unsteady hands and cheapo soldering iron. LOL.
> 
> Now I need to figure out a replacement for them ... any suggestions for a warm (almost dark) sounding ear bud for very long listening sessions.



ooh dear... sorry to hear that.. 
the darker buds that i can think of would be Zen 2, Ty Hi 650, Willsound MK 300. 
also Svara L and Samsara with thick foams might also fit the bill.


----------



## HungryPanda

WoodyLuvr said:


> Well that was a grand disaster... I destroyed my PureSounds in a feeble attempt to re-wire them. Way too small for my unsteady hands and cheapo soldering iron. LOL.
> 
> Now I need to figure out a replacement for them ... any suggestions for a warm (almost dark) sounding ear bud for very long listening sessions.


I was listening to my Ty Hi-z 320 ohm bud earlier and that would fit your description


----------



## WoodyLuvr

mbwilson111 said:


> If you are on FB, join Earbuds Anonymous if you have not already.  There are so many guys on there making buds in Thailand, Indonesia and other places.  Someone on there might have a suggestion or even be able to make one for you.  The photos on that site are phenomenal.


Unfortunately no FB account for this old fart but thank you for the kind suggestion.


mbwilson111 said:


> How much did the PureSounds cost?


They were the flagship edition PS100-600S + 600-core copper cable so about USD $150-175 new.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

chinmie said:


> ooh dear... sorry to hear that..
> the darker buds that i can think of would be Zen 2, Ty Hi 650, Willsound MK 300.
> also Svara L and Samsara with thick foams might also fit the bill.





HungryPanda said:


> I was listening to my Ty Hi-z 320 ohm bud earlier and that would fit your description


@chinmie @HungryPanda Thank you I will look into and consider those


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Too bad the Willsound MK 300 are no longer available


----------



## HungryPanda

The Willsound MK2's are my favourites


----------



## seanc6441

bigtim said:


> @seanc6441 wow - that sounds very intricate! Having spent the last 20mins trying unsuccessfully to get a doughnut over a foam I may not have the dexterity for either task. I'm going back for round 2 with the doughnut, I will not be defeated!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The trick is to stretch the donut first by placing it on the earbud and then removing it before applying it on top on the full foam. Foams are easy to work with once stretched/used. New foams are trickier indeed.


----------



## mbwilson111

WoodyLuvr said:


> Unfortunately no FB account for this old fart but thank you for the kind suggestion.



Join it just to join the EA group.  You don't have to friend anyone  Then you won't have anything in your news feed except bud stuff.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

K's Samsara might be the one as I am reading they are excellent for very long listening sessions.


----------



## activatorfly

Here's my first review in ages - of the ST-10 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-st-10.23718/reviews#review-22191


----------



## mbwilson111

WoodyLuvr said:


> K's Samsara might be the one as I am reading they are excellent for very long listening sessions.



Actually I have found most of my buds good for long listening sessions...like 4 or 5 albums in a row.


----------



## mbwilson111

activatorfly said:


> Here's my first review in ages - of the ST-10
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-st-10.23718/reviews#review-22191



How can I find out if I have the original or the revised version of the Smabat ST-10.  I have been afraid to take off the original cable to maybe try a balanced cable because I don't know if I will loosen or break something.  If I do have the original version, I assume I should ask for the revised version.  Would that be done with the seller or directly through Smabat?


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> How can I find out if I have the original or the revised version of the Smabat ST-10.  I have been afraid to take off the original cable to maybe try a balanced cable because I don't know if I will loosen or break something.  If I do have the original version, I assume I should ask for the revised version.  Would that be done with the seller or directly through Smabat?


Images were posted of the fixed MMCX in an earlier post.....I'll try to find it.
You just have to send close-ups of the connectors to the seller...they then replace them straightaway!


----------



## activatorfly

The original forum post by assassin10000 shows close-up's of the improved design.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2809


----------



## activatorfly

These are the images he posted:


----------



## DBaldock9

activatorfly said:


> These are the images he posted:



I've got the original ST-10 (listening to them right now) - but I never tried connecting the stock cable (have been using my NiceHCK 16-Core Balanced & Un-Balanced cables).


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm gutted, received my Pai audio PK1 and the right hand earbud mmcx connector is too recessed and cannot connect cable, I have just sent a message to Penon where I got them.


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> I'm gutted, received my Pai audio PK1 and the right hand earbud mmcx connector is too recessed and cannot connect cable, I have just sent a message to Penon where I got them.



The center pin on one of my Rose Aurora earphones pushed in a bit, and wasn't making good contact.
I opened the shell, pushed the pin forward, and added a small blob of hot-glue to keep it from pushing back again.
It's held up for months.
.
If Penon doesn't require you to return your PK1 for replacement, you might try opening it, and pushing the center pin forward.


----------



## Willber

HungryPanda said:


> I'm gutted, received my Pai audio PK1 and the right hand earbud mmcx connector is too recessed and cannot connect cable, I have just sent a message to Penon where I got them.


Do you mean PRK1?

https://penonaudio.com/paiaudio-prk1.html

Confusingly it's listed as PK1 on some other sites.


----------



## HungryPanda

It actually says PK1 on the Paiaudio box, although the listing was PRK1


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 8, 2019)

WoodyLuvr said:


> K's Samsara might be the one as I am reading they are excellent for very long listening sessions.


Casper TI?

Seems popular on EA group as a warm sweet. It's mx500 based with mmcx connector. Very nice looking smokey transparent shell.

By reviews it seems like a chill earbud with lush-warm mids and full bodied bass according to the impressions left on EA group. You could research it and see what you think


----------



## B9Scrambler

Seems everyone and their cousin is releasing SMABAT ST-10 reviews today. Well, here's mine.

Head-fi / The Contraptionist


  ​


----------



## assassin10000 (Jun 9, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> How can I find out if I have the original or the revised version of the Smabat ST-10.  I have been afraid to take off the original cable to maybe try a balanced cable because I don't know if I will loosen or break something.  If I do have the original version, I assume I should ask for the revised version.  Would that be done with the seller or directly through Smabat?



The original mmcx connector on the earbuds are no different than most others on the market (earbuds or iems). The original cable ground is split into 4 and is not very stable or strong against bending movement. That lack of strength/stability at the cable end, combined with a soft storage pouch which allows more stress is IMO the cause of the problem that some have had.

Granted, the new mmcx connector is the best I've seen on any IEM or earbud thus far. It has a collar that comes up around the hollow split center pin to prevent spreading of it and loss of good contact.




If you pull straight back from the connector or use the tools @HungryPanda recommended (and has), popping the mmcx loose should have no issues.

The smaller of the two (diamond file was to smooth the rough edges):




I contacted the seller, who contacted Smabat. Smabat provided the seller the replacements that the seller shipped to me.




DBaldock9 said:


> I've got the original ST-10 (listening to them right now) - but I never tried connecting the stock cable (have been using my NiceHCK 16-Core Balanced & Un-Balanced cables).



You'll probably be ok then. Just store them in a case and not a pouch.


----------



## activatorfly

Todays stack: N3/NX4 DSD / SR2


----------



## activatorfly (Jun 10, 2019)

Or op-amp rolling with Zishan Z2 / Walnut F1 / ST-10:


----------



## activatorfly

Smabat box is ideally sized to house stack & power pack!


----------



## seanc6441

@activatorfly 

I wish the lg v30 had a line out function so you could stack some portable amps or even a desk amp to it to get some versatility of power and color/tonality.

I'd like to get into portable amps but I'd have to buy a new source first with line out.

Now that i have a flac collection I might be able to venture into that area and keep my v30 for streaming/music discovery.

I love the technical aspects of the V30 sound and the clean accurate dac but sometimes id like a little more warmth which i feel the v30's amp stage doesn't really offer.


----------



## activatorfly (Jun 9, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> @activatorfly
> 
> I wish the lg v30 had a line out function so you could stack some portable amps or even a desk amp to it to get some versatility of power and color/tonality.
> 
> ...


Isn't it possible to use the lg v30's 3.5mm output or USB-C to headphone to jack adaptor? I guess though that line out would be ideal & less susceptible to interference? FLAC files definitely make a huge difference imho - been building upon my collection more intensively over the last 3 years! The format certainly reveals way more sound-stage "air"....along with extra micro details & nuances in electronica & soundscapes - whilst still retaining an analogue warmth (akin to vinyl) for down-tempo jazz / classical & vocals.....
Having tried out several portable amps, NX4 has a superb price/performance ratio, delivering 293mW (32 ohms) or 114mW (300 ohms) - hence I can also easily drive full-sized cans - such as Sennheiser HD 58X.
Battery life is 28 hours playback as headphone amp and 7.5 hours as a DAC.....plus with two micro-usb-ins means that you can charge the amp whilst it's being used as a dac!


----------



## Alex.Grimm

seanc6441 said:


> @activatorfly
> 
> I love the technical aspects of the V30 sound and the clean accurate dac but sometimes id like a little more warmth which i feel the v30's amp stage doesn't really offer.


Try V30+Fiio A5


----------



## activatorfly

Alex.Grimm said:


> Try V30+Fiio A5


Or FiiO Q1ii


----------



## Alex.Grimm

activatorfly said:


> Or FiiO Q1ii


Very little power for high impedance headphones. Better what said earlier NX4 or A5


----------



## activatorfly

Alex.Grimm said:


> Very little power for high impedance headphones. Better what said earlier NX4 or A5


Good point!


----------



## cyh03176

Alex.Grimm said:


> Very little power for high impedance headphones. Better what said earlier NX4 or A5


q1m2 has balance output though


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 9, 2019)

activatorfly said:


> Isn't it possible to use the lg v30's 3.5mm output or USB-C to headphone to jack adaptor? I guess though that line out would be ideal & less susceptible to interference? FLAC files definitely make a huge difference imho - been building upon my collection more intensively over the last 3 years! The format certainly reveals way more sound-stage "air"....along with extra micro details & nuances in electronica & soundscapes - whilst still retaining an analogue warmth (akin to vinyl) for down-tempo jazz / classical & vocals.....
> Having tried out several portable amps, NX4 has a superb price/performance ratio, delivering 293mW (32 ohms) or 114mW (300 ohms) - hence I can also easily drive full-sized cans - such as Sennheiser HD 58X.
> Battery life is 28 hours playback as headphone amp and 7.5 hours as a DAC.....plus with two micro-usb-ins means that you can charge the amp whilst it's being used as a dac!


I suppose i could but then I'd be double amping or if i used the usb out id have to connect an amp - dac  combo to the chain only using the phone as a the music player interface.

Seems illogical to put effort into building a flac library and getting a nice stack only to double amp and lose some quality that way. I think id 

I'll probably pick up a small player down the line and add a portable amp or invest in a desk amp/dac if i decide to get into full size headphones (which im tempted to).


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Seems illogical to put effort into building a flac library and getting a nice stack only to double amp and lose some quality that way. I think id



double amping is not necessarily synonymous with loosing signal quality.. well it can turn ugly fast if one don't know what they're doing, but with the the right amps and the right amount gain mix between the amps, it might produce an interesting pleasant output. 
recording sessions they do that all the time(stacking amps/preamps, even stacking EQs and other similar effects) even to this day of digital plugins.
experiments are fun


----------



## activatorfly

chinmie said:


> double amping is not necessarily synonymous with loosing signal quality.. well it can turn ugly fast if one don't know what they're doing, but with the the right amps and the right amount gain mix between the amps, it might produce an interesting pleasant output.
> recording sessions they do that all the time(stacking amps/preamps, even stacking EQs and other similar effects) even to this day of digital plugins.
> experiments are fun


Totally agree!


----------



## mochill

All y'all get the nickel


----------



## Willber

Ahem - "Earbuds Round-Up" thread.


----------



## chinmie

Willber said:


> Ahem - "Earbuds Round-Up" thread.



right, sorry, let's get back to the topic


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 10, 2019)

Since I already have a MX500 shell-type earbud (my Blurs) and all my previous buds were MX500 types I think the replacement pair for my Puresounds PS100-600 should be a smaller PK/Docomo type shell. I do have small ears so it might be worth while trying.

I am considering the following as I hunt for buds with a warm/dark signature for long listening sessions plugged into my desk headAMP:

VE Zen Lite
Sunrise SW Dragon 2
Shozy Cygnus

Don't know if the 16 and 32 ohms Docomo's recently recommended in this thread play well amped... do they scale well?


----------



## bigtim

bigtim said:


> @seanc6441 wow - that sounds very intricate! Having spent the last 20mins trying unsuccessfully to get a doughnut over a foam I may not have the dexterity for either task. I'm going back for round 2 with the doughnut, I will not be defeated!!



Well, the doughnut eventually went onto the foam... but it still doesn’t sound right. The Yincrow X6 is keeping a smile on my face at the moment so the Smabats will likely end up in the F/S forum to fund some further earbud adventures.


----------



## seanc6441

WoodyLuvr said:


> Since I already have a MX500 shell-type earbud (my Blurs) and all my previous buds were MX500 types I think the replacement pair for my Puresounds PS100-600 should be a smaller PK/Docomo type shell. I do have small ears so it might be worth while trying.
> 
> I am considering the following as I hunt for buds with a warm/dark signature for long listening sessions plugged into my desk headAMP:
> 
> ...


Well I found the zen lite very underwhelming but that's just me. It was coloured in a weird way, abit wonky in the mids, didn't sound natural to me. Maybe i got a lemon? Compared to the zen 2.0 which is truly a dark but fairly natural sounding earbud.

Cygnus is a classic but the soundstage is small. Good tonal balance though. Not sure if I'd call it dark though, warm maybe with a slight forward lower treble like most docomo buds. Like the bk is can get a bit congested in the lower mids with thick donuts, but becomes brighter with thin foams. So it's a compromise. Not sure how it scales because i dont own a desk amp.


----------



## MelodyMood

GREQ said:


> I measured my set. It's the version that came bundled with my iPod Classic Gen 6 (2007).
> For this measurement I added foams, as the measurements get really unreliable without a half decent 'seal' on my miniDSP EARS jig.
> They're not made for measuring buds at all, so pinch o' salt and the usual... the curve is compensated with the IEM compensation files.


OK. I was talking about old classic earphones. Not earpod. The one which used to come with iPhone 2 or 3 or may be with 4 too.


----------



## MelodyMood

GREQ said:


> Ah ok, that wasn't clear from the original post, since no images provided.


This is the one I was talking about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_earbuds#/media/File:IPod_Earbuds.JPG


----------



## cyh03176

MelodyMood said:


> OK. I was talking about old classic earphones. Not earpod. The one which used to come with iPhone 2 or 3 or may be with 4 too.





MelodyMood said:


> This is the one I was talking about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_earbuds#/media/File:IPod_Earbuds.JPG



again, please use multiple quote function.


----------



## MelodyMood (Jun 10, 2019)

I am going to order 3 Earbuds: FiiO EM3S, Remax RM-305 and one Apple Classic Earbud.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32769638892.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.56e33c00FMxds4
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32806413009.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.56e33c00FMxds4
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32805337515.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.56e33c00FMxds4

Any other earbud to suggest? Which has good sound and with Mic option. I can add another earbud of up to $8-10 in this list 

I was looking for TY Hi-Z 32s with Mic but neither 32 nor 32s is available with mic anymore.

Any idea about UiiSii U2 ?


----------



## Jsingh4

So I received my SR2 16ohms yesterday and I would like to thank @Willber and @mbwilson111.
They sound amazing.
Looking forward to more recommendations from you guys.


----------



## GREQ

MelodyMood said:


> This is the one I was talking about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_earbuds#/media/File:IPod_Earbuds.JPG


I presume, the one of the left of the image?


----------



## MelodyMood

GREQ said:


> I presume, the one of the left of the image?


Actually, the left one is nowhere to be seen now. I see only the right one available at few places and https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32806413009.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.56e33c00FMxds4 is right one. But here on AE and other places, including Apple, specifications are not available.  just want to see if it has same specifications like the Right one. If so then they are really good buy.


----------



## MelodyMood

Did anyone try Monk Plus from other stores like Hangrui or Ollivan? Is there any difference in Sound Quality of VE Monk+ and others?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 11, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> Well I found the zen lite very underwhelming but that's just me. It was coloured in a weird way, abit wonky in the mids, didn't sound natural to me. Maybe i got a lemon? Compared to the zen 2.0 which is truly a dark but fairly natural sounding earbud.
> 
> Cygnus is a classic but the soundstage is small. Good tonal balance though. Not sure if I'd call it dark though, warm maybe with a slight forward lower treble like most docomo buds. Like the bk is can get a bit congested in the lower mids with thick donuts, but becomes brighter with thin foams. So it's a compromise. Not sure how it scales because i dont own a desk amp.


Thank you for the in-depth descriptions; very much appreciated 

To me it seems that warmer and/or darker signatures are easier to listen to for extended periods... is this generally true or too subjective?

Ultimately, I am striving to purchase a pair of super comfortable, ear friendly (easy to listen to) ear buds for long-listening sessions in PK/Docomo type shells. Genre is usually ambient electronic (e.g. Blade Runner Soundtracks)


----------



## GREQ

MelodyMood said:


> Actually, the left one is nowhere to be seen now. I see only the right one available at few places and https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32806413009.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.56e33c00FMxds4 is right one. But here on AE and other places, including Apple, specifications are not available.  just want to see if it has same specifications like the Right one. If so then they are really good buy.


I don't see how the one on the right is any different to the ones I have. It seems to be visually identical.
Is there a sure way to differentiate the two?


----------



## chinmie

WoodyLuvr said:


> Thank you for the in-depth descriptions; very much appreciated
> 
> To me it seems that warmer and/or darker signatures are easier to listen to for extended periods... is this generally true or too subjective?
> 
> Ultimately, I am striving to purchase a pair of super comfortable, ear friendly (easy to listen to) ear buds for long-listening sessions in PK/Docomo type shells. Genre is usually ambient electronic (e.g. Blade Runner Soundtracks)



yes to some degree. i agree with you mellow/dark sounding signature would be great for longer sessions on medium volume, but i personally prefer to listen to detail oriented signature but on a lower volume, although i also like the warmer tone from time to time

neither is right or wrong though, depends on your preference


----------



## basketballTaco

Hey, everyone. I hope this isn't off topic but can someone offer their opinion on how the Koss KSC75 compares with some well-known earbuds. To give a sense of rising price, lets say KSC75 vs Qian69 (or any of the great budget earbuds really), MrZ Tomahawk, and Rose Masya. Most interested to hear opinion on Masya comparison since my Tomahawk is broken and Qian69 have not arrived.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 11, 2019)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Ultimately, I am striving to purchase a pair of super comfortable, ear friendly (easy to listen to) ear buds for long-listening sessions in PK/Docomo type shells. Genre is usually ambient electronic (e.g. Blade Runner Soundtracks)


Well if that's the case I'd imagine you are looking for respectable sub bass extension and some weight to the low end. Ideally an audeze LCD 2 of earbuds, but comfortable too.



WoodyLuvr said:


> Thank you for the in-depth descriptions; very much appreciated
> 
> To me it seems that warmer and/or darker signatures are easier to listen to for extended periods... is this generally true or too subjective?



Yes absolutely. Although some people suffer from bass fatigue too. But generally highs can be more fatiguing. Also as @chinmie  says, going for a bassy-warm earbuds allows you to listen at lower volumes without feeling like the sound is too thin.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 11, 2019)

basketballTaco said:


> Hey, everyone. I hope this isn't off topic but can someone offer their opinion on how the Koss KSC75 compares with some well-known earbuds. To give a sense of rising price, lets say KSC75 vs Qian69 (or any of the great budget earbuds really), MrZ Tomahawk, and Rose Masya. Most interested to hear opinion on Masya comparison since my Tomahawk is broken and Qian69 have not arrived.


Ksc75's advantage is driver size. It can push more air so it has more bass punch than many earbuds.

I personally think thw ksc75 midrange is average. With some slight shoutiness heard and lack of refinement. The highs are ok in refinement and slightly forward/bright but not too bad.

Soundstage is very spacious because of how open it is. But the depth isn't fantastic, and the imaging is so so.

To me in stock form it's a competitor to earbuds up to about $100 at most. But doesn't have the refinement of many pairs around $100+.

Funny you brought up the masya, because thw ksc75 soundstage and imaging is quiet similar to the masya. Bass hits much harder on the 75 (original masya is kinda bass light, new pro masya is apperantly better in that regard). The mids are better on the masya, smoother and cleaner. The highs are 50/50. Both are stellar in the highs.

So yeah, the ksc75 is good, like many earbuds it gets even better with mods and some corrective EQ. I recommend it or the portapro if you dont mind the fit.

I still think earbuds are far more convient and sleek looking in use. You just have to pay a little extra to get the same sound. But not too much, the $32 willsound mk2 is a nice earbud alternative to the ksc75.

I would choose the ksc75 over earbud only in one case, if you require more impact on the bass (although it doesn't hit too deep in the sub bass just like earbuds). To get similar bass quantity on earbuds you have to really search far and wide for a very bassy earbud that still has decent mids/highs.


----------



## chinmie

basketballTaco said:


> Hey, everyone. I hope this isn't off topic but can someone offer their opinion on how the Koss KSC75 compares with some well-known earbuds. To give a sense of rising price, lets say KSC75 vs Qian69 (or any of the great budget earbuds really), MrZ Tomahawk, and Rose Masya. Most interested to hear opinion on Masya comparison since my Tomahawk is broken and Qian69 have not arrived.



the most similar to KSC75 that i can think of are the red demun (don't know if it's still available) and Edifier H185. for convenience, i prefer earbuds than the KSC75 any day.


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> the most similar to KSC75 that i can think of are the red demun (don't know if it's still available) and Edifier H185. for convenience, i prefer earbuds than the KSC75 any day.



I think I will have to get my KSC75 out today.  Mine is very convenient attached to the Parts Express headband.  Not for out and about though... just for listening at home for me.


----------



## seanc6441

Does anyone here own and use the Masya Pro? Haven't heard much about it since it's release. I'd have thought it would be more popular since the original was a big hit.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

seanc6441 said:


> Well if that's the case I'd imagine you are looking for respectable sub bass extension and some weight to the low end. Ideally an audeze LCD 2 of earbuds, but comfortable too.


Do they exist? Audeze LCD 2 like earbuds


----------



## ShabtabQ

Okay so my RY4S wire got pulled and now left ear lows sound weird


----------



## GREQ

WoodyLuvr said:


> Do they exist? Audeze LCD 2 like earbuds


If the only requirement to be 'audeze-like' is audible bass extension down to 10hz (and below) then yes, they kind of do exist.
But for a similarly linear frequency response with rolled off treble, I think this doesn't exist.
Kube V1 is the closest thing to a 'linear' response I've measured from a modern bud, but unlike most Audeze headphones, it actually has good treble.


----------



## cyh03176

WoodyLuvr said:


> Do they exist? Audeze LCD 2 like earbuds


if you join EA then the answer would be Vido. Vido is the answer for everything they might as well call it Vido Fans Club instead.


----------



## irv003

cyh03176 said:


> if you join EA then the answer would be Vido. Vido is the answer for everything they might as well call it Vido Fans Club instead.


have you heard vido?


----------



## cyh03176

irv003 said:


> have you heard vido?


yes, why?


----------



## waynes world

MelodyMood said:


> Actually, the left one is nowhere to be seen now. I see only the right one available at few places and https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32806413009.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.56e33c00FMxds4 is right one. But here on AE and other places, including Apple, specifications are not available.  just want to see if it has same specifications like the Right one. If so then they are really good buy.



Fwiw, I previously bought the ones that you linked. They are now in a landfill somewhere.


----------



## irv003

cyh03176 said:


> yes, why?


i like vido


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 11, 2019)

waynes world said:


> Fwiw, I previously bought the ones that you linked. They are now in a landfill somewhere.



Never throw the bad ones away.   The shell can be used to make a new bud with better drivers.

About a year ago we went through a bunch of old buds that had come with gear in the past.  Gave a quick listen and threw most of them in the trash.   Now that my husband is making buds, we regret doing that.   There were probably some useful shells among them.   The ones we kept?  Can't find them right now... maybe in the attic?


----------



## cyh03176

irv003 said:


> i like vido


for 2 bucks, i like it too. but for an earbud no, the bass just bleeds to the mid and every thing sounds muddy. but of course, it is subjective.


----------



## irv003

cyh03176 said:


> for 2 bucks, i like it too. but for an earbud no, the bass just bleeds to the mid and every thing sounds muddy. but of course, it is subjective.


whats your favorite buds?


----------



## cyh03176

irv003 said:


> whats your favorite buds?


Zeva Superfire


----------



## irv003

cyh03176 said:


> Zeva Superfire


is this new brand? never heard it before


----------



## cyh03176

irv003 said:


> is this new brand? never heard it before


it's only available in taobao at the moment.


----------



## irv003

cyh03176 said:


> it's only available in taobao at the moment.[/QUOTE





cyh03176 said:


> it's only available in taobao at the moment.


how much are these?


----------



## waynes world

cyh03176 said:


> it's only available in taobao at the moment.



And once they are available on ebay or aliexpress (assuming they are someday), at least one more pair will be sold!


----------



## cyh03176

irv003 said:


> how much are these?


USD15 with change (postage excluded)



waynes world said:


> And once they are available on ebay or aliexpress (assuming they are someday), at least one more pair will be sold!


you can try Superbuy or other Taobao agent


----------



## mbwilson111

cyh03176 said:


> you can try Superbuy or other Taobao agent



I plan to try this after @activatorfly receives his Superfire.


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> I plan to try this after @activatorfly receives his Superfire.


Will keep you posted when they arrive!


----------



## ShabtabQ

Anybody help me repairing RY4S, the left earbud's wire got pulled accidentally and now lows sound like pharrrrrrr phurrrrrrrr. I tried opening it and checked but nothing is lose, what could be wrong.


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> I plan to try this after @activatorfly receives his Superfire.



Let me know how it goes. I tried a taobao agent a while back, and it didn't work out for me. But if you have success, then I'll give it another shot (I really want those Superfire's!)


----------



## basketballTaco

mbwilson111 said:


> I think I will have to get my KSC75 out today.  Mine is very convenient attached to the Parts Express headband.  Not for out and about though... just for listening at home for me.


I'd like to ask you since you got that Parts Express headband for the ksc75, what is the clamp force like? Is it tight enough to resist head shaking? Or just tight enough to rest on the head and ears? I'm interested in buying that combo becuase I hope it will give a slight boost to the low end without hurting much else, comfort included (I used to have KSCs years ago until the wire inevitably broke).


----------



## Jsingh4 (Jun 11, 2019)

Guys any idea ?
Could this design be any good?


----------



## Willber

Jsingh4 said:


> So I received my SR2 16ohms yesterday and I would like to thank @Willber and @mbwilson111.
> They sound amazing.
> Looking forward to more recommendations from you guys.


Glad you like them. Now wait and see what they sound like after 50 hours... then 100... they just get better and better, opening up like prize rose.


----------



## cyh03176

Willber said:


> Glad you like them. Now wait and see what they sound like after 50 hours... then 100... they just get better and better, opening up like prize rose.


There are earbuds, not whiskey


----------



## mbwilson111

basketballTaco said:


> I'd like to ask you since you got that Parts Express headband for the ksc75, what is the clamp force like? Is it tight enough to resist head shaking? Or just tight enough to rest on the head and ears? I'm interested in buying that combo becuase I hope it will give a slight boost to the low end without hurting much else, comfort included (I used to have KSCs years ago until the wire inevitably broke).



Barely tight enough to rest on the head and ears.  I feel more secure with the clips but those are a bit more fiddly to fit with my long hair.. and glasses.


----------



## Willber

cyh03176 said:


> There are earbuds, not whiskey


True, but they are both good partners for a mellow listening session.


----------



## basketballTaco (Jun 11, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> Ksc75's advantage is driver size. It can push more air so it has more bass punch than many earbuds.
> 
> I personally think thw ksc75 midrange is average. With some slight shoutiness heard and lack of refinement. The highs are ok in refinement and slightly forward/bright but not too bad.
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot for commenting on the Masya. Honestly, I was least expecting that comparison to be acknowledged. Interesting, going by memory I had thought the highs of Masya and KSC would indeed be similarly excellent (had the KSCs years ago). I am surprised though to read that the Masya keep up in soundstage. They really are earbud champions of that aspect.

The thing I love about the Masya is, surprisingly, the way it fits (or more precisely the way I made it fit). After years of tinkering I just recently settled on using them naked with over the ear hooks attached on the "stems" and they're perfect. I really was shocked when I finally took everything off of it and reminded myself of their true performance in the highs haha They float just outside my ear canal due to the hooks and it feels like sound is just coming from air when I press play (clearly I don't have much care for bass lol). I remember KSC giving me that same sort of sound experience due to their fit + great highs. I doubt they would replace my Masya for music listening, but I was thinking they would definitely be better for watching shows/movies. Thanks again for your notes .

(Oh and P.S. no pressure but if you ever get masya pro, do let us know how they actually differ from old masya. I've read conflicting views in regards to their bass and forwardness in the highs. If all they do is give a mini boost to the low end I would really consider to buy them, but not if they do anything to further emphasize the mids or highs.)


----------



## basketballTaco

Jsingh4 said:


> Guys any idea ?
> Could this design be any good?


Ah man. Honestly, those types of covers do not work for me at all. Don't get me wrong, they fit excellent and actually make you feel like you could run with some earbuds on but the sound just changes too much. It gives you this weird in between of an earbud an IEM without the full satisfaction of either in my opinion. Bass coming through an earbud with such covers just sounds weird. I've tried 4 kinds of such "non-foam" covers like that and the only ones I liked were actually just those transparent, flat silicon pads with holes around the middle that you can you can buy on ali.


----------



## waynes world

basketballTaco said:


> I'd like to ask you since you got that Parts Express headband for the ksc75, what is the clamp force like? Is it tight enough to resist head shaking? Or just tight enough to rest on the head and ears? I'm interested in buying that combo becuase I hope it will give a slight boost to the low end without hurting much else, comfort included (I used to have KSCs years ago until the wire inevitably broke).





Spoiler: OT KSC75 talk!



They are tight enough to resist head shaking (I'm doing it right now and they are staying in place), and they press more firmly on the ears than with the clips, so you do get better bass. Having said that, the clamping factor is relatively low so they are quite comfortable. I also like the Parts Express headband for use with the sportapro drivers for added bass.


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Let me know how it goes. I tried a taobao agent a while back, and it didn't work out for me. But if you have success, then I'll give it another shot (I really want those Superfire's!)



Maybe by then they will available on the usual sites.


----------



## irv003

K's 300 (modded) in lightning adapter on a 60% volume, great!


----------



## MelodyMood

GREQ said:


> I don't see how the one on the right is any different to the ones I have. It seems to be visually identical.
> Is there a sure way to differentiate the two?


No. Both are different. If you have noticed, the Right one has slightly smaller shell. Not sure if only outer shell is different or there is any change in actual driver size too? 



waynes world said:


> Fwiw, I previously bought the ones that you linked. They are now in a landfill somewhere.


You might not heard them I guess. They are supposed to be very good. Hear them with open mind


----------



## waynes world

MelodyMood said:


> You might not heard them I guess. They are supposed to be very good. Hear them with open mind



Yes, I heard them. That is why they are in a landfill somewhere.

This was my related post:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2803#post-14952250


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Yes, I heard them. That is why they are in a landfill somewhere.
> 
> This was my related post:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2803#post-14952250



To me it sounds like either they were fakes, or, if not fakes then maybe out of phase.  That could give the sound you heard.  If a phase test had confirmed that you could have opened  one side and reversed the wires.  Simple   That is what Panda would do.


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> To me it sounds like either they were fakes, or, if not fakes then maybe out of phase.  That could give the sound you heard.



That sounds plausible.



> If a phase test had confirmed that you could have opened  one side and reversed the wires.  Simple   That is what Panda would do.



Yeah, simple lol!


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Yeah, simple lol!



I thought you would like that


----------



## MelodyMood

waynes world said:


> Yes, I heard them. That is why they are in a landfill somewhere.
> 
> This was my related post:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2803#post-14952250


Unless they have drastically messed up something from gen 1 earphones, I believe they should sound very good. Old Classic Apple Earphones are very good but sadly I wanted Mic version


----------



## MelodyMood

One query, how does Metal Housing make difference from Plastic one? Do they really make any difference or just we imagine if we are using metal earbuds?


----------



## ClieOS

MelodyMood said:


> Unless they have drastically messed up something from gen 1 earphones, I believe they should sound very good. Old Classic Apple Earphones are very good but sadly I wanted Mic version



Just ordered the 1st gen. from Taobao to check it out. If it is good enough then perhaps I'll recable it.




MelodyMood said:


> One query, how does Metal Housing make difference from Plastic one? Do they really make any difference or just we imagine if we are using metal earbuds?



Metal is denser, does absorb less energy and allow more reflection / transmission. While it is not always an very important factor, the material of the housing does impact the sound to a certain degree, for good or bad. It is just simple material science and nothing imaginary about it.


----------



## MelodyMood

ClieOS said:


> Just ordered the 1st gen. from Taobao to check it out. If it is good enough then perhaps I'll recable it.



You mean the Left side one from the Image I shared? Is it with Mic? Can you pls share the link of the earbud from Taobao. I will check and may order one. And believe me, if it is what I am expecting, you don't need to recable it. They are so good that you will just keep them forever and then compare all other earbuds with this one only when it comes to the sound signature. I have never heard that much details with that much smoothness and slightly thumping bass in any other earbud.


----------



## ClieOS

MelodyMood said:


> You mean the Left side one from the Image I shared? Is it with Mic? Can you pls share the link of the earbud from Taobao. I will check and may order one. And believe me, if it is what I am expecting, you don't need to recable it. They are so good that you will just keep them forever and then compare all other earbuds with this one only when it comes to the sound signature. I have never heard that much details with that much smoothness and slightly thumping bass in any other earbud.



Yes, the 1st. gen - but it is Taobao so you can't rule out the chance of fake / clone. I have listened briefly to 1st gen a long time ago with the 1at gen iPod and don't recall they were impressive in anyway, but that's really long time ago so I'll give them another try. Recabling is just for fun - I like to do small DIY project from time to time.

If you want to get one, here is the link - https://m.tb.cn/h.e4ByGC0?sm=c29a80


----------



## MelodyMood

ClieOS said:


> Yes, the 1st. gen - but it is Taobao so you can't rule out the chance of fake / clone. I have listened briefly to 1st gen a long time ago with the 1at gen iPod and don't recall they were impressive in anyway, but that's really long time ago so I'll give them another try. Recabling is just for fun - I like to do small DIY project from time to time.
> 
> If you want to get one, here is the link - https://m.tb.cn/h.e4ByGC0?sm=c29a80


Ok. Looks good. I agree that we cannot be sure about fake or genuine. However, I don't see any option of Mic in them  Can u pls see if there is any Mic option with these?  Also, is there any English site of Taobao?


----------



## GREQ

MelodyMood said:


> No. Both are different. If you have noticed, the Right one has slightly smaller shell. Not sure if only outer shell is different or there is any change in actual driver size too?


I think you misunderstand me.
My 6th Gen ipod classic comes with an apple bud that looks IDENTICAL to the one on the right of the photo.
This is from the graph I have provided on page 2840.

Earlier, ClieOS said you were looking for the older one on the left, but I was saying that MY bud is identical to the one on the right. 
I have no confusion differentiating the two buds in the wiki photo.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 12, 2019)

BloodyPenguin said:


> Picked up this DIY *Docomo* on AliExpress.  It is not a review unit, I tried but the seller never replied to me.  I bought it anyways.  (I'm not including the link to the product, as I don't post that much anymore and I am not sure if we are allowed to post up links to AliExpress.)
> 
> EDIT: I'm adding the link, but please let me know if this violates any polices before you delete this post.
> 
> ...



How well do these scale with a desk amp?


----------



## ClieOS

MelodyMood said:


> Ok. Looks good. I agree that we cannot be sure about fake or genuine. However, I don't see any option of Mic in them  Can u pls see if there is any Mic option with these?  Also, is there any English site of Taobao?



There is no mic option. All of them are the mic-less version.

The English site of Taobao is actually Ali Express (both are ran by Alibaba) - unfortunately there is no actual English official translation of Taobao and only a very small handful of Taobao sellers also operate on Ali Express.


----------



## MelodyMood

GREQ said:


> I think you misunderstand me.
> My 6th Gen ipod classic comes with an apple bud that looks IDENTICAL to the one on the right of the photo. This is from the graph I have provided on page 2840.
> 
> Earlier, ClieOS said you were looking for the older one on the left, but I was saying that MY bud is identical to the one on the right.
> I have no confusion differentiating the two buds in the wiki photo.


*Ok. How does that sound? 1st Gen iPod Nano was one of the best sounding. I guess few initial versions of iPod Classic were god too. Later they changed the Sound Chip and the sound was not that warm and good anymore  *





ClieOS said:


> There is no mic option. All of them are the mic-less version.
> 
> The English site of Taobao is actually Ali Express (both are ran by Alibaba) - unfortunately there is no actual English official translation of Taobao and only a very small handful of Taobao sellers also operate on Ali Express.


*Ok.  Without Mic will not be good actually for me  I don't want to use two earbuds for one for listening music and then change bud if I get call *


----------



## mbwilson111

MelodyMood said:


> *Ok. How does that sound? 1st Gen iPod Nano was one of the best sounding. I guess few initial versions of iPod Classic were god too. Later they changed the Sound Chip and the sound was not that warm and good anymore  *
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just don't take calls when you are enjoying your music.  Simple

Seriously, I would not be able to get into my music if I thought someone was going to interrupt me with a call.  But then, I don't use a phone for music.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 12, 2019)

GREQ said:


> If the only requirement to be 'audeze-like' is audible bass extension down to 10hz (and below) then yes, they kind of do exist.
> But for a similarly linear frequency response with rolled off treble, I think this doesn't exist.
> Kube V1 is the closest thing to a 'linear' response I've measured from a modern bud, but unlike most Audeze headphones, it actually has good treble.


Kube v1 is quiet smooth in the treble. It's definitely a candidate for a 'relaxing' sound but I feel it needs a little modding to open up the sound more. It's a little congested like the r4ys ue in stock tuning. It definately becomes liberated in a more open design than the stock mx500 shell which is more of a semi closed design.

@WoodyLuvr

Using them with extra ports drilled (1 bass port and 2 below the side vents) and using them with a very thin foam like the original monk thin foam would solve the issue of comfort and relaxing but powerful sound IMO. Since thin foams make the mx500 shell fit much better and more comfortable.

Also the soundstage is uniquely tall and very spacious on my modded kube. I was using them foamless even but thin foams work nicely too.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

@seanc6441 Sincerely do appreciate all the advice and ideas... as I have never owned a non-MX500 shell type earbud and because I do have small ear canals I am now researching high impedance (120Ω or higher) ear buds that use a smaller PK like shell and offer an ear friendly experience for extended listening.


----------



## cocolinho

@seanc6441 
can you please elaborate more & show pics of your mod ? I'll receive my pair soon and I'd like to try your mod if you don't mind of course
Thanks


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 12, 2019)

cocolinho said:


> @seanc6441
> can you please elaborate more & show pics of your mod ? I'll receive my pair soon and I'd like to try your mod if you don't mind of course
> Thanks



Be sure to give it a chance before you mod.  Many of us are more than happy with the Kube V1 exactly as it is.

edit:  I was told by the seller that there is more risk of damaging this one when opening it.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Be sure to give it a chance before you mod.  Many of us are more than happy with the Kube V1 exactly as it is.


True it's a solid earbud in stock form. Only mod if you feel comfortable doing so!



cocolinho said:


> @seanc6441
> can you please elaborate more & show pics of your mod ? I'll receive my pair soon and I'd like to try your mod if you don't mind of course
> Thanks


Yeah I can, once I get home I'll snap some pics!


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 12, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> True it's a solid earbud in stock form. Only mod if you feel comfortable doing so!



It is certainly possible that you hear it differently than I do.  Different sources and younger ears (yours).  Probably different music styles as well.   And then there is the matter of a different fit in different ears.


----------



## wskl

WoodyLuvr said:


> @seanc6441 Sincerely do appreciate all the advice and ideas... as I have never owned a non-MX500 shell type earbud and because I do have small ear canals I am now researching high impedance (120Ω or higher) ear buds that use a smaller PK like shell and offer an ear friendly experience for extended listening.



Wong Kuan Wae has 150 ohm drivers for PK shell but I have no idea of their signature.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

WoodyLuvr said:


> @seanc6441 I am now researching high impedance (120Ω or higher) ear buds that use a smaller PK like shell and offer an ear friendly experience for extended listening.



I'm not sure, but maybe these VE Monk Lite 120Ω


----------



## irv003

ty hi-z 32 (modded) x AR M200


----------



## HungryPanda

Linsoul BLD 150ohm is very good for the price


----------



## WoodyLuvr

wskl said:


> Wong Kuan Wae has 150 ohm drivers for PK shell but I have no idea of their signature.


Exactly why I am leery of buying them... no idea what they will sound like. Plus, I already own a pair of Blurs and want something different but thank you for the recommendation.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Alex.Grimm said:


> I'm not sure, but maybe these VE Monk Lite 120Ω


Yeah, I have added to my list... I really was interested in the VE Zen Lite but it is no longer available


----------



## cyh03176 (Jun 12, 2019)

This shell looks interesting


----------



## WoodyLuvr

HungryPanda said:


> Linsoul BLD 150ohm is very good for the price


On the top of my list good sir! I saw your post about them awhile back in this thread. I will mull it over another day or so and then I'll pull the trigger and buy one or two from my list:

Linsoul BLD 150Ω
Linsoul DTM PK1 ~150Ω
VE Monk Lite 120Ω
Sunrise SW Dragon2
Shozy Cygnus
Willsound PK32


----------



## WoodyLuvr

cyh03176 said:


> This shell looks interesting


What size shell is that? PK type?


----------



## waynes world

MelodyMood said:


> You mean the Left side one from the Image I shared? Is it with Mic? Can you pls share the link of the earbud from Taobao. I will check and may order one. And believe me, if it is what I am expecting, you don't need to recable it. They are so good that you will just keep them forever and then compare all other earbuds with this one only when it comes to the sound signature. I have never heard that much details with that much smoothness and slightly thumping bass in any other earbud.



ClieOS? Compare all his other earbuds to them? That would be a very long process lol.



MelodyMood said:


> *Ok.  Without Mic will not be good actually for me  I don't want to use two earbuds for one for listening music and then change bud if I get call *



If you get the Radsone ES100 bluetooth receiver (there are others, but it rocks), you will still get great sound, and you will no longer require a mic. Problem solved!



seanc6441 said:


> Kube v1 is quiet smooth in the treble. It's definitely a candidate for a 'relaxing' sound but I feel it needs a little modding to open up the sound more.



I'm still waiting to see those mods! (My bad if you already posted them lol). I'm 100% happy with my V1's, but I have a spare, so if your mods are not too challenging or destructive, I might give them a go.



Alex.Grimm said:


> I'm not sure, but maybe these VE Monk Lite 120Ω



Yes!



HungryPanda said:


> Linsoul BLD 150ohm is very good for the price



Yes!


----------



## cyh03176

WoodyLuvr said:


> What size shell is that? PK type?


i think it is customised mx500 shells considering how the stem looks like. btw if you are from thailand maybe you wanna check out all the DIYers there lol


----------



## mbwilson111

WoodyLuvr said:


> On the top of my list good sir! I saw your post about them awhile back in this thread. I will mull it over another day or so and then I'll pull the trigger and buy one or two from my list:
> 
> Linsoul BLD 150Ω
> Linsoul DTM PK1 ~150Ω
> ...



Just buy them all..you know you want to 

I forgot to mention the Monk Lite.  That is the only one from your list that I own.  Comfortable and play nicely with amps.  I only have the standard cable $6 version that is no longer sold but I enjoy it.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

cyh03176 said:


> i think it is customised mx500 shells considering how the stem looks like. btw if you are from thailand maybe you wanna check out all the DIYers there lol


I have, unfortunately most are MX500 shell types and whenever I do come upon a smaller shell type it is conveniently "out of stock!", bugger.


----------



## Willber

cyh03176 said:


> This shell looks interesting


More info on their products here (although I can't see a yellow one, they do have 'glow in the dark'):

http://www.soundproofbrosaudio.com/brands_detail.php?brand_id=118


----------



## cyh03176

WoodyLuvr said:


> I have, unfortunately most are MX500 shell types and whenever I do come upon a smaller shell type it is conveniently "out of stock!", bugger.


can check out moonbuds too, they use pk type shell but every model is low impedance though.


Willber said:


> More info on their products here (although I can't see a yellow one, they do have 'glow in the dark'):
> 
> http://www.soundproofbrosaudio.com/brands_detail.php?brand_id=118


i got it from their facebook page. it sure looks sexy


----------



## HungryPanda

WoodyLuvr said:


> On the top of my list good sir! I saw your post about them awhile back in this thread. I will mull it over another day or so and then I'll pull the trigger and buy one or two from my list:
> 
> Linsoul BLD 150Ω
> Linsoul DTM PK1 ~150Ω
> ...


That is a very good list


----------



## WoodyLuvr

cyh03176 said:


> can check out moonbuds too, they use pk type shell but every model is low impedance though.


Yes, I researched Moonbuds from Vietnam... beautiful but all the reviews say their sound is on the bright side with weak bass, opposite of what I am after.


----------



## irv003

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, I researched Moonbuds from Vietnam... beautiful but all the reviews say their sound is on the bright side with weak bass, opposite of what I am after.


have you tried stock docomo? warm with better mids


----------



## WoodyLuvr

irv003 said:


> have you tried stock docomo? warm with better mids


I had considered them but didn't quite know how well they played (scaled) with an amp. Are you speaking of the DIY Docomos recently mentioned in this thread from Alixexpress?


----------



## mbwilson111

irv003 said:


> have you tried stock docomo? warm with better mids



I would like to know how to get a stock docomo.


----------



## irv003

Aliex, theres also a seller in EA, forgot his name


----------



## mbwilson111

irv003 said:


> Aliex, theres also a seller in EA, forgot his name



I have never been able to find them in my searches on ali (or ebay).  I will try again.


----------



## crtninja

@Willber Thanks for the FENGRU Silver suggestion. Just got them in, and they are fantastic.
Great imaging, I can visualize a drum kit while the music is playing.
Low end sounds tight, highs are smooth.
I love these.


----------



## cyh03176

do you guys mean this?

https://shopee.com.my/NTT-Docomo-Earphone-(Shozy-Stardust-Driver-!!)-i.15414210.1950448870[URL]https://shopee.com.my/NTT-Docomo-Earphone-(Shozy-Stardust-Driver-!!)-i.15414210.1950448870[/URL]


----------



## Willber

crtninja said:


> @Willber Thanks for the FENGRU Silver suggestion. Just got them in, and they are fantastic.
> Great imaging, I can visualize a drum kit while the music is playing.
> Low end sounds tight, highs are smooth.
> I love these.


Good - spread the love!


----------



## irv003

cyh03176 said:


> do you guys mean this?
> 
> https://shopee.com.my/NTT-Docomo-Earphone-(Shozy-Stardust-Driver-!!)-i.15414210.1950448870https://shopee.com.my/NTT-Docomo-Earphone-(Shozy-Stardust-Driver-!!)-i.15414210.1950448870


this is docomo in yuin shell


----------



## cyh03176

irv003 said:


> this is docomo in yuin shell


no, yuin uses docomo shell


----------



## irv003

cyh03176 said:


> no, yuin uses docomo shell


im referring to this black docomo


----------



## mbwilson111

this is the docomo shell that I am talking about.   My Blur Black Panther uses it.   I would like to try this shell stock... in white or black.


----------



## cyh03176

Willber said:


> Good - spread the love!


tingo tg-38s?


irv003 said:


> im referring to this black docomo





mbwilson111 said:


> this is the docomo shell that I am talking about.   My Blur Black Panther uses it.   I would like to try this shell stock... in white or black.


these? https://shopee.com.my/Japan-DOCOMO-Variant-Earphone(Thick-ish-Mids-nice-Bass)-i.15414210.1218111640


----------



## irv003

cyh03176 said:


> tingo tg-38s?
> 
> 
> 
> these? https://shopee.com.my/Japan-DOCOMO-Variant-Earphone(Thick-ish-Mids-nice-Bass)-i.15414210.1218111640


yup this one but white is warmer than black, i prefer the black one


----------



## mbwilson111

cyh03176 said:


> tingo tg-38s?
> 
> 
> 
> these? https://shopee.com.my/Japan-DOCOMO-Variant-Earphone(Thick-ish-Mids-nice-Bass)-i.15414210.1218111640



Yes, but somewhere I can buy them.


----------



## Willber

cyh03176 said:


> no, yuin uses docomo shell


Yuin and Docomo shells are different. The links you posted are Yuin-style.


----------



## mbwilson111

irv003 said:


> yup this one but white is warmer than black, i prefer the black one



Why is the white warmer than the black?  Were they released at different times with different phones?


----------



## irv003

mbwilson111 said:


> Why is the white warmer than the black?  Were they released at different times with different phones?


i dunno bro but maybe different driver internals, i had opened them but not much difference, only on the damper side, the white one has slightly thicker damper if you are really gonna compare it from black


----------



## cyh03176

irv003 said:


> yup this one but white is warmer than black, i prefer the black one


black ones are available in options 


Willber said:


> Yuin and Docomo shells are different. The links you posted are Yuin-style.


let me quote God of Earbuds here


ClieOS said:


> Let step back and look at this issue as a whole: Before we even come to these Oyaide plugs' discussion, this thread is already full of earbuds that used MX500, MX760, *PK (which more accurately is NTT Docomo's)* as well as K314 shell. With the exception of HiFiKIWI (*not particularly popular brand here, but their earbuds, which used MX500 and K314 shell, are made by Foster, which is the original OEM for these shell and thus properly licensed), all of them are clone of another companies' design. Yet for the love of God most people here care nothing about them. @RuFrost, please recount how many earbuds you have bought that used one of those shells but ain't officially licensed / made by Sennheiser, NTT Docomo, AKG or Foster? Now that you know this (and I suspect you probably already know about it in the bottom of your heart for a long time, but choose to ignore it like the rest of us), will you toss out all of those clones or burn them to the ground? Will you vouch that you will never buy another earbud that doesn't have an original design?
> 
> It is easy to want to stand on the moral highground, but as far as I can tell, we are all sinner here. You can not tell us that you can't accept a plug that looks like Oyaide but it is not (and never claimed to be one), while feel okay for getting earbuds that looks like MX500 / MX760 / PK / K314 but clearly ain't. If those of you want to stand hard and firm on this issue, do it all the way. Otherwise it is just hypocritical.


----------



## Willber

cyh03176 said:


> tingo tg-38s?


Mine are listed as TC200 (which were a different shell, now discontinued). There is some debate about whether they use the same drivers as the TG-38S, which are more expensive:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Brand-Go-pro-Accessories-Projector-Monopod-Croons-Tingo-Tg-38s-Earbud-Earphones-Pk-Mx985-A8/32687542028.html


----------



## mbwilson111

irv003 said:


> i dunno bro but maybe different driver internals, i had opened them but not much difference, only on the damper side, the white one has slightly thicker damper if you are really gonna compare it from black



That would probably make it warmer.  I know my husband experiments with the thickness when making his own buds.  If I can get stock ones in this shell inexpensively, I probably would take both colors.


----------



## cyh03176

Willber said:


> Mine are listed as TC200 (which were a different shell, now discontinued). There is some debate about whether they use the same drivers as the TG-38S, which are more expensive:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Brand-Go-pro-Accessories-Projector-Monopod-Croons-Tingo-Tg-38s-Earbud-Earphones-Pk-Mx985-A8/32687542028.html


there is a lot of confusion with this model. once upon a time TC200 used TG-38S' shell but then used back their own shell (see photo below). so people are confused and said Tingo is cheating by claiming that they are using MX985's drivers in TG-38S. TC200 is the one using MX985's driver, not TG-38S. So when TC200 was produced using TG-38S' shell, it in fact had MX985's drivers, or so they claim.


----------



## Willber

cyh03176 said:


> there is a lot of confusion with this model. once upon a time TC200 used TG-38S' shell but then used back their own shell (see photo below). so people are confused and said Tingo is cheating by claiming that they are using MX985's drivers in TG-38S. TC200 is the one using MX985's driver, not TG-38S. So when TC200 was produced using TG-38S' shell, it in fact had MX985's drivers, or so they claim.


I agree, there is lots of confusion. All I know is that the ones I have (three of them) sound great. I doubt I will pay the extra for the TG-38S unless someone on here says they are better.


----------



## irv003

mbwilson111 said:


> That would probably make it warmer.  I know my husband experiments with the thickness when making his own buds.  If I can get stock ones in this shell inexpensively, I probably would take both colors.


nice.

docomos can offer best sound quality. here are some of my works.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

irv003 said:


> nice.
> 
> docomos can offer best sound quality. here are some of my works.


Do they scale well with an headphone amp?


----------



## mbwilson111

irv003 said:


> nice.
> 
> docomos can offer best sound quality. here are some of my works.



Nice work!  I even have some yellow foams   Are those stock docomo recabled?


----------



## irv003

WoodyLuvr said:


> Do they scale well with an headphone amp?


yes bro, as long as its not a warmer-sounding amp or dap.


----------



## mbwilson111

While we are on the subject of comfortable earbud shells, does anyone know what this shell is or has been used with?    These came with the little Benjie X6 DAP pictured with it.   I expected they would be terrible but they are actually pretty good... fairly balanced.  Or, possibly I am just going crazy.


----------



## jogawag (Jan 25, 2020)

*There are 2 types of docomo shell* developed as an accessory for NTT docomo mobile phones: Old(Variant) docomo shell (from 2005 in Japan) and New docomo shell (from 2006 in Japan).

The Old(Variant) docomo shell has a long stem for the bass boost mechanism.



The New docomo shell has a flat head, a short stem and has become famous for being copied and sold as the "Yuin PK" type.
In addition, New original docomo's driver is also used as Shozy Cygnus driver.


Edit:
New original docomo black version was sold as "2017 NiceHCK DIY PK2 black version 1", but this was sold out.


----------



## DBaldock9

mbwilson111 said:


> While we are on the subject of comfortable earbud shells, does anyone know what this shell is or has been used with?    These came with the little Benjie X6 DAP pictured with it.   I expected they would be terrible but they are actually pretty good... fairly balanced.  Or, possibly I am just going crazy.



...ier



As in, craz-ier...


----------



## cyh03176

mbwilson111 said:


> While we are on the subject of comfortable earbud shells, does anyone know what this shell is or has been used with?    These came with the little Benjie X6 DAP pictured with it.   I expected they would be terrible but they are actually pretty good... fairly balanced.  Or, possibly I am just going crazy.


can you perhaps take off the foam and take another photo?


----------



## Willber

jogawag said:


> *There are 2 types of docomo shell* developed as an accessory for NTT docomo mobile phones: Old docomo shell (from 1999 in Japan) and New docomo shell (from 2006 in Japan).
> 
> The Old docomo shell has a long stem for the bass boost mechanism.
> 
> ...


Thanks, good info.


----------



## irv003

mbwilson111 said:


> Nice work!  I even have some yellow foams   Are those stock docomo recabled?


yup these are recabled docomos, stock cable are J-cord with mic


----------



## wskl

mbwilson111 said:


> That would probably make it warmer.  I know my husband experiments with the thickness when making his own buds.  If I can get stock ones in this shell inexpensively, I probably would take both colors.



It was posted by another member, a seller from Malaysia has both black and white stock docomo
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4595690/


----------



## cyh03176

wskl said:


> It was posted by another member, a seller from Malaysia has both black and white stock docomo
> https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4595690/


that is the same seller i posted earlier.

https://shopee.com.my/Japan-DOCOMO-Variant-Earphone(Thick-ish-Mids-nice-Bass)-i.15414210.1218111640


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 12, 2019)

cyh03176 said:


> can you perhaps take off the foam and take another photo?


----------



## Willber

They look well made.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> They look well made.



Trying to find out what that shell is.. or even the driver if anyone knows.  They came FREE with a $32 dap!


----------



## GREQ

mbwilson111 said:


> Trying to find out what that shell is.. or even the driver if anyone knows.  They came FREE with a $32 dap!


https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07GB4FCJH/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A26YJYCKQXR141&psc=1

Coincidentally I was looking at these the other day. 
Probably not exactly the answer you're looking for, but it seems to be the same shell. 
Different plug though.
I've ordered 3 for modding, unless it actually sounds good.
Hopefully they ship globally, but either way it's a starting point.


----------



## mbwilson111

GREQ said:


> https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07GB4FCJH/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A26YJYCKQXR141&psc=1
> 
> Coincidentally I was looking at these the other day.
> Probably not exactly the answer you're looking for, but it seems to be the same shell.
> ...



That does look like the could be the same... and there are colors!  A donor shell if nothing more.

I am actually listening to these right now plugged into my desktop dac/amp and they are really sounding good.  So, did I get a $32 bud with a free dap... lol.


----------



## mbwilson111

GREQ said:


> Hopefully they ship globally



Well I tried.  One year of high school German a million years ago was not much help, but seems that they ship from China but not to the UK.


----------



## rkw

cyh03176 said:


> This shell looks interesting





WoodyLuvr said:


> What size shell is that? PK type?





cyh03176 said:


> i think it is customised mx500 shells considering how the stem looks like.


It's based on a PK shell. The MX500 has a different shape.


----------



## MelodyMood

mbwilson111 said:


>


What Earbuds are they? With Mic?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Here's one of my many apple earbuds. Have Heigi Donuts on em and think they sound pretty good.


----------



## MelodyMood

BadReligionPunk said:


> Here's one of my many apple earbuds. Have Heigi Donuts on em and think they sound pretty good.



Are they very good. I don't know if you ave heard 1st gen Apple earbuds or not? They are really very very good actually. From where did you buy these? There is one available here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32806413009.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.6e0c3c00PisSp3 But someone bought and did not like the sound. I think they should be good and he might get bad piece.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Jun 12, 2019)

MelodyMood said:


> Are they very good. I don't know if you ave heard 1st gen Apple earbuds or not? They are really very very good actually. From where did you buy these? There is one available here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32806413009.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.6e0c3c00PisSp3 But someone bought and did not like the sound. I think they should be good and he might get bad piece.


Yes they are the best of all Apple earbuds IMO. They are the 2011 version with mic and controls. Same apple mids but with more boom down low.

I have the first gen ones and I don't particularly find them exciting. Granted, I used them everyday for thousands upon thousands of hours. Don't know how much aging and use have effected them.


----------



## MelodyMood

BadReligionPunk said:


> Yes they are the best of all Apple earbuds IMO. They are the 2011 version with mic and controls. Same apple mids but with more boom down low.
> 
> I have the first gen ones and I don't particularly find them exciting. Granted, I used them everyday for thousands upon thousands of hours. Don't know how much aging and use have effected them.


Ok. Then I guess that I can order the one available on AliExpress. Hope they turn out to be genuine and good


----------



## mbwilson111

MelodyMood said:


> What Earbuds are they? With Mic?



If you had read only a few posts back you would have seen that they are the free buds that come with the Benjie X6 DAP and I was asking people if they could help figure out if that shell was used in something else.  Someone wanted me to take a new photo with the foams off so they could see more of it... like the front of the driver.

NO there is NO mic.  Why would there be a mic on a bud that is for a DAP?   Daps save a person from being interrupted by annoying phone calls... and notifications.


----------



## MelodyMood

mbwilson111 said:


> If you had read only a few posts back you would have seen that they are the free buds that come with the Benjie X6 DAP and I was asking people if they could help figure out if that shell was used in something else.  Someone wanted me to take a new photo with the foams off so they could see more of it... like the front of the driver.
> 
> NO there is NO mic.  Why would there be a mic on a bud that is for a DAP?   Daps save a person from being interrupted by annoying phone calls... and notifications.


He He he   I have iPod (not touch) but not available as of now as I am outside my home country so once I visit, I will get them.


----------



## MelodyMood

BadReligionPunk said:


> Yes they are the best of all Apple earbuds IMO. They are the 2011 version with mic and controls. Same apple mids but with more boom down low.
> 
> I have the first gen ones and I don't particularly find them exciting. Granted, I used them everyday for thousands upon thousands of hours. Don't know how much aging and use have effected them.


*One thing I noticed, in last few years, I bought many earbuds from AE or Ebay or other places too, some I bought in store as well. While in some shorter or longer time, they all get broken, Apple Earbuds which came with my iPod Nano 1st Gen is still intact, working fine and beautiful sound too. No matter what people says about Apple Earbuds about their sound or so, they are very very comfortable (Classic Round one and not Earpods), they are very good sounding and most important, they are so durable and high quality that they lasts for years or even decades I would say. No one can deny the quality they provide. *


----------



## mbwilson111

MelodyMood said:


> He He he   I have iPod (not touch) but not available as of now as I am outside my home country so once I visit, I will get them.



What will you get?


----------



## MelodyMood

mbwilson111 said:


> What will you get?


I have iPod Nano 1st Gen and also iPod Nano 7th Gen. The sound of 1st gen is beautiful.


----------



## MisterMudd

Jsingh4 said:


> So I received my SR2 16ohms yesterday and I would like to thank @Willber and @mbwilson111.
> They sound amazing.
> Looking forward to more recommendations from you guys.


Dang it. I have a few more days before I get mine. Enjoy!


----------



## Evoke

Finally received my Zeva Superfire earbuds. For 20 dollars I have been really quite impressed with it. 

Very detailed with nice mids. Decent sound stage and imaging. The bass does bleeds into the mids though


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> What will you get?


Probably nothing. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2823#post-14981489


----------



## MelodyMood

Willber said:


> Probably nothing. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2823#post-14981489


What. I don't need to depend on your advise only. I have ears and can listen too and know little it about good and bad sound. And unlike you, I don't day dream of buying $400-500 earbuds and happy with whatever I have.


----------



## Willber

MelodyMood said:


> What. I don't need to depend on your advise only. I have ears and can listen too and know little it about good and bad sound. And unlike you, I don't day dream of buying $400-500 earbuds and happy with whatever I have.


LOL!


----------



## MelodyMood

Willber said:


> LOL!


Just because I am looking for low cost earbuds, does not mean that I don't have any sense of sound. I know much better than you. And low cost earbud only because I have financial constraints. You cannot imagine the money I lost in stock market. You can buy all at least one piece of earbuds from Aliexpress from that money. If I tell you the amount, you will feel ashamed actually..


----------



## Willber (Jun 12, 2019)

MelodyMood said:


> Just because I am looking for low cost earbuds, does not mean that I don't have any sense of sound. I know much better than you. And low cost earbud only because I have financial constraints. You cannot imagine the money I lost in stock market. You can buy all at least one piece of earbuds from Aliexpress from that money. If I tell you the amount, you will feel ashamed actually..


If you'd read my posts and looked at my sig you'd know that I buy almost exclusively budget buds, and that my favourite out of all my gear is the $5 Fengru Silver. Months ago I recommended to you another of my favourites, the $5 MS16, but you made made excuses not to buy it. Over the years I've suggested many cheap buds to you (under your new and old usernames) which you have not bought. Your main excuse used to be that they take too long to be delivered. It's like going round in circles which is why I stopped.


----------



## ElectricKaibutu (Jun 13, 2019)

Anyone rocking the original Sennheiser MX500's? They were my favorite buds for like 10 years until they bit the dust. I wish I knew about swapping cables back then since I probably could have saved them. I bid on an unopened set a couple weeks back for $40. Thank God I was outbid, lol.


----------



## Willber

ElectricKaibutu said:


> Anyone rocking the original Sennheiser MX500's? They were my favorite buds for like 10 years until they bit the dust. I wish I knew about swapping cables back then since I probably could have saved them. A bid on an unopened set a couple weeks back for $40. Thank God I was outbid, lol.


You could try Massdrop (now called Drop):

https://drop.com/sennheiser-mx500/p


----------



## mbwilson111

MelodyMood said:


> Just because I am looking for low cost earbuds, does not mean that I don't have any sense of sound. I know much better than you. And low cost earbud only because I have financial constraints. You cannot imagine the money I lost in stock market. You can buy all at least one piece of earbuds from Aliexpress from that money. If I tell you the amount, you will feel ashamed actually..



Nobody has ever criticized anyone for looking for low cost earbuds.  We are always happy and amazed at what great sound we can get for only a few dollars.  Some have just been concerned that you are asking questions just to get people to reply to you with no intention of trying any of the suggestions.  So far people have given you some good ideas but you seem to just blow them off or find some reason why it won't work.  'That is frustrating for all of us including you... assuming you really do want to buy something.

4am here.. up too late.  See... you succeeded in getting a response.


----------



## MelodyMood

Willber said:


> If you'd read my posts and looked at my sig you'd know that I buy almost exclusively budget buds, and that my favourite out of all my gear is the $5 Fengru Silver. Months ago I recommended to you another of my favourites, the $5 MS16, but you made made excuses not to buy it. Over the years I've suggested many cheap buds to you (under your new and old usernames) which you have not bought. Your main excuse used to be that they take too long to be delivered. It's like going round in circles which is why I stopped.


No previous username. Not sure about that. MS16 looks good but when you (or someone) mentioned that it leaks sound like anything and the person next to you or in the same room will listen like he is actually using the earphones, then I decided to drop it. I already have few earbuds so did not order as I was also not sure which one is good actually.


----------



## cyh03176

rkw said:


> It's based on a PK shell. The MX500 has a different shape.


yea just noticed the slightly curved stem. thx


mbwilson111 said:


> If you had read only a few posts back you would have seen that they are the free buds that come with the Benjie X6 DAP and I was asking people if they could help figure out if that shell was used in something else.  Someone wanted me to take a new photo with the foams off so they could see more of it... like the front of the driver.
> 
> NO there is NO mic.  Why would there be a mic on a bud that is for a DAP?   Daps save a person from being interrupted by annoying phone calls... and notifications.


because i browsed diy store and saw a few lookalike shells, so i wanted to see the vent holes. but still can't find it.


Evoke said:


> Finally received my Zeva Superfire earbuds. For 20 dollars I have been really quite impressed with it.
> 
> Very detailed with nice mids. Decent sound stage and imaging. The bass does bleeds into the mids though


which foams are you using?


----------



## Evoke

cyh03176 said:


> yea just noticed the slightly curved stem. thx
> 
> because i browsed diy store and saw a few lookalike shells, so i wanted to see the vent holes. but still can't find it.
> 
> which foams are you using?


The default black doughnuts that comes with the earbuds


----------



## cyh03176 (Jun 13, 2019)

Evoke said:


> The default black doughnuts that comes with the earbuds


:/ i don't hear any bass bleed though


----------



## JonSilvers

Hello, Sorry for putting in this part of the thread, but I am in need of the help.
I am interested in getting certain type of earbuds, I read a ton of reviews, went through a lot of pages here, thou not through all, and still not sure which ones, I would like to ask about advice, price range 50-150$, and the cable have to be detachable, and comfortable up to certain point. 
So far I ended up with this ones on the list, but still not sure which ones:

OURART ACG
Smabat ST-10
Venture Electronics ASURA Omega 2.0s
Nicehck EBX
Rose Masya Pro.

Thou I am leaning a little bit towards Masya PRO.
If you have any other similar prices suggestions or which one of these please let me know, I would appreciate advice a lot, thanks a lot.
Thanks to ClieOS and all of you guys, there a still people who prefer earbuds to IEM`s, I though I was one of the few left, as I found out not that few.


----------



## Evoke (Jun 13, 2019)

cyh03176 said:


> :/ i don't hear any bass bleed though


Yeah. Bass are a bit boomy in certain songs 
The mids are really good. Soundstage seems slightly wider than my Kanas. This earbub certainly blows my KZ ZST away though. I am hugely impressed that this cost 20bucks


----------



## cyh03176

Evoke said:


> Yeah. Bass are a bit boomy in certain songs
> The mids are really good. Soundstage seems slightly wider than my Kanas. This earbub certainly blows my KZ ZST away though. I am hugely impressed that this cost 20bucks


hehe. it makes me feel stupid to spent so much on iem before i got these. i will stop buying expensive earbuds/iems now until i upgrade my dap (currently using fiio x3ii)


----------



## Evoke

cyh03176 said:


> hehe. it makes me feel stupid to spent so much on iem before i got these. i will stop buying expensive earbuds/iems now until i upgrade my dap (currently using fiio x3ii)


I am currently awaiting the arrival of my HD660S and I would be done with audio stuff for a while


----------



## ElectricKaibutu

Willber said:


> You could try Massdrop (now called Drop):
> 
> https://drop.com/sennheiser-mx500/p


Oh sweet. Requested. Let's see if they get them in stock.


----------



## mbwilson111

MelodyMood said:


> MS16 looks good but when you (or someone) mentioned that it leaks sound like anything and the person next to you or in the same room will listen like he is actually using the earphones, then I decided to drop it.



LOL maybe if they press their head against your ear.   How loud DO you listen?


----------



## cyh03176

looks like i must get a pair of MS16 to replace the speakers for my home theater.


----------



## Jsingh4 (Jun 13, 2019)

So I did a little thing with my SR2 16ohms
Used a silicone ring and just the face of the foam covers sounds much better than just foam covers


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Hello folks,

Anybody notice any difference between VE Monkey 2.5 and 3.5?


----------



## Willber

Jsingh4 said:


> So I did a little thing with my SR2 16ohms
> Used a silicone ring and just the face of the foam covers sounds much better than just foam covers


That would give @mbwilson111 nightmares!


----------



## ElectricKaibutu

I got a pair of Vido's yesterday. First impressions are that they sound better than the Monk +. They sound fuller, have better bass and staging. I'm running into an issue with sibilance though, which is weird since no one else seems to think they are sibilant. I'm thinking it's either because I need to burn them in more or because I'm one of those weirdos who doesn't use foam pads on earbuds. With the foam pads on they are no longer sibilant but of course you lose that articulation. I ended up ordering a variety pack of foams with the goal of trying out some thins. Thin foams might be just what the Vido's need to really shine.

I have a set of RY4S UE's and Yincrow X6's (I hear these are Vido's with a nicer cable) on the way too. The cheap earbud bug bit me . I see a set of EMX500's on my horizon too!


----------



## Willber (Jun 13, 2019)

ElectricKaibutu said:


> Yincrow X6's (I hear these are Vido's with a nicer cable)


Some people say that but mine sound different.


ElectricKaibutu said:


> I see a set of EMX500's on my horizon too!


You should try the Fengru Silver, they are better than all those others you mentioned IMO:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Brand-Go-pro-Accessories-Projector-Monopod-Croons-Tingo-Tg-38s-Earbud-Earphones-Pk-Mx985-A8/32687542028.html


----------



## waynes world

ElectricKaibutu said:


> I got a pair of Vido's yesterday. First impressions are that they sound better than the Monk +. They sound fuller, have better bass and staging. I'm running into an issue with sibilance though, which is weird since no one else seems to think they are sibilant. I'm thinking it's either because I need to burn them in more or because I'm one of those weirdos who doesn't use foam pads on earbuds. With the foam pads on they are no longer sibilant but of course you lose that articulation. I ended up ordering a variety pack of foams with the goal of trying out some thins. Thin foams might be just what the Vido's need to really shine.
> 
> I have a set of RY4S UE's and Yincrow X6's (I hear these are Vido's with a nicer cable) on the way too. The cheap earbud bug bit me . I see a set of EMX500's on my horizon too!



Good 'ol Monk+'s and Vido's... gateway drugs to a whole lot of buds!


----------



## Jsingh4

Ok


Willber said:


> That would give @mbwilson111 nightmares!


Umm y though?

Although I am loving them now more than I told you before lol.


----------



## Willber

Jsingh4 said:


> Ok
> 
> Umm y though?


Because by her own admission it takes all day* to put on a simple set of foams. 

(* That is my exaggeration.)


----------



## mbwilson111

Jsingh4 said:


> Ok
> 
> Umm y though?
> 
> Although I am loving them now more than I told you before lol.



I think that was just a reference to the fact that it can take me 20 minutes just to get one foam on.  LOL


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> Because by her own admission it takes all day* to put on a simple set of foams.
> 
> (* That is my exaggeration.)




Haha... posted at the exact same time!


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> Haha... posted at the exact same time!


I think you should take a video of you doing it - it might be instructive!


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> I think you should take a video of you doing it - it might be instructive!



Do that an hold a camera too?  LOL.   What happens is, I get a bit over the rim but then because I do not have 20 tiny fingers on each hand I cannot get all the bits over without the whole thing continually popping off.   Then, at some point  it just suddenly works.     I have arthritis in my fingers.


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> Do that an hold a camera too?  LOL.   What happens is, I get a bit over the rim but then because I do not have 20 tiny fingers on each hand I cannot get all the bits over without the whole thing continually popping off.   Then, at some point  it just suddenly works.     I have arthritis in my fingers.


Ah, arthritis is not going to help...


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> Ah, arthritis is not going to help...



I do have a husband to help... when he is not at work.  Sometimes I do not want to wait if a new bud arrives while he is away.  Last night I changed an mmcx cable on an iem all by myself!  Without ruining anything.


----------



## ElectricKaibutu

Willber said:


> Some people say that but mine sound different.
> You should try the Fengru Silver, they are better than all those others you mentioned IMO:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Brand-Go-pro-Accessories-Projector-Monopod-Croons-Tingo-Tg-38s-Earbud-Earphones-Pk-Mx985-A8/32687542028.html


Oh come on! I don't need more earbuds to be interested in. Anyway, I ordered them. I figure if I order them then I won't want to buy them any more. Good logic?


----------



## Willber

ElectricKaibutu said:


> Oh come on! I don't need more earbuds to be interested in. Anyway, I ordered them. I figure if I order them then I won't want to buy them any more. Good logic?


Perfect logic. I can guarantee they will be your last.
(LOL!)


----------



## mbwilson111

ElectricKaibutu said:


> Oh come on! I don't need more earbuds to be interested in. Anyway, I ordered them. I figure if I order them then I won't want to buy them any more. Good logic?



That makes perfect sense to me.  Kind of like crossing something off your "to do" list.  It means you are not a procrastinator


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 13, 2019)

Finalizing my small shelled "to buy" list... aiming for gentle, ear friendly earbuds for extended listening sessions.

Crystalcore Audio Kryptonite 150Ω (Local Thai DIY Earbud Maker)
mickeyo2's Japan Docomo w/ Black SPC (Awaiting Malaysian Seller's Return from Vacation) 

Linsoul BLD 150Ω
Dropped the Shozy Cygnus for the Docomos and removed the VE Monk Lite 120Ω as they will probably be too bright for my taste and sensitive ears.


----------



## cyh03176

mbwilson111 said:


> I think that was just a reference to the fact that it can take me 20 minutes just to get one foam on.  LOL


no wonder i felt that you were complaining when i was asking you to remove the foams on the earbuds that came free with benjie x6


WoodyLuvr said:


> Finalizing my small shelled "to buy" list... aiming for gentle, ear friendly earbuds for extended listening sessions.
> 
> Crystalcore Audio Kryptonite 150Ω (Local Thai DIY Earbud Maker)
> mickeyo2's Japan Docomo w/ Black SPC (Awaiting Malaysian Seller's Return from Vacation)
> ...


Crystalcore Audio Kryptonite 150Ω - which colour are you getting?


----------



## MelodyMood (Jun 13, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> LOL maybe if they press their head against your ear.   How loud DO you listen?


Not too loud. I would say anywhere between 20-40% of volume depends on the outside noise. Doed the mesh behind the speaker does nor leak sound like another speaker behind the actual speaker?

Also, there are many MS16 models on AE. Which is the real one and best sounding? I am including that too in my list


----------



## assassin10000

mbwilson111 said:


> I think that was just a reference to the fact that it can take me 20 minutes just to get one foam on.  LOL



Do you stretch the foams in 6-8 different directions before attempting to put them on? I do that now and it's way easier than trying to install fresh from the bag/box.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

cyh03176 said:


> Crystalcore Audio Kryptonite 150Ω - which colour are you getting?


Bruce Banner Green if they still have em... awaiting feedback


----------



## mbwilson111

assassin10000 said:


> Do you stretch the foams in 6-8 different directions before attempting to put them on? I do that now and it's way easier than trying to install fresh from the bag/box.



Yes I do stretch them.  It is just that my fingers will not always cooperate.  Like right now typing is hurting them.


----------



## BadReligionPunk




----------



## WoodyLuvr

cyh03176 said:


> Crystalcore Audio Kryptonite 150Ω - which colour are you getting?





WoodyLuvr said:


> Bruce Banner Green if they still have em... awaiting feedback


No more green  ... so I went with Copper. Now have to patiently await 7-10 days for them to be made.


----------



## waynes world

ElectricKaibutu said:


> Oh come on! I don't need more earbuds to be interested in. Anyway, I ordered them. I figure if I order them then I won't want to buy them any more. Good logic?



Yeah, perfect logic. You'll like them so much, that you'll need spares. And then they will come out with different colours, and you will buy them all.. and spares of those of course! Perfect!


----------



## jogawag (Jun 14, 2019)

Does anyone have earbuds using the SR PRO driver which is a new version of the SR2 driver?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32252667305.html
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=20039954602

I think that this SR PRO driver has better sound quality(sufficient bass and clear mid-treble) than the SR2 driver and Docomo driver.
I love the earbuds which I connected the black version of this SR PRO driver to a monocrystal copper cable, but the black version is already sold out.


----------



## MisterMudd

SR2 16Ohm on board. First impressions are good separation, soundstage, mids, and that BASS. Listening to Sir Sly's You Haunt Me (Remix) and the lows are impressive for an ear bud. There is good clarity, but the treble seems a little laid back, maybe slightly veiled. This could be my olden ears though, and quite frankly I am not hearing much above 12Hz these days. In not a believer in "burn-in" but I will let them play for a few days and see what happens. Then, maybe apply a little bit of top end sparkle via EQ. All in all - putting them at the top as king of my budget buds collection for now. Snow-Lotus 1.0+ wider and airier soundstage, but they are huge, while the SR2 is comfortably small shell like the Qian 25. Thanks again to everyone on this thread for suggestions. Have a great weekend of listening!


----------



## activatorfly

jogawag said:


> Does anyone have earbuds using the SR PRO driver which is a new version of the SR2 driver?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32252667305.html
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=20039954602
> 
> ...


I'm awaiting delivery....I'll post a comparison to SR2 when they arrive


----------



## activatorfly

MisterMudd said:


> SR2 16Ohm on board. First impressions are good separation, soundstage, mids, and that BASS. Listening to Sir Sly's You Haunt Me (Remix) and the lows are impressive for an ear bud. There is good clarity, but the treble seems a little laid back, maybe slightly veiled. This could be my olden ears though, and quite frankly I am not hearing much above 12Hz these days. In not a believer in "burn-in" but I will let them play for a few days and see what happens. Then, maybe apply a little bit of top end sparkle via EQ. All in all - putting them at the top as king of my budget buds collection for now. Snow-Lotus 1.0+ wider and airier soundstage, but they are huge, while the SR2 is comfortably small shell like the Qian 25. Thanks again to everyone on this thread for suggestions. Have a great weekend of listening!


Easily the best budget buds...imo


----------



## mbwilson111

jogawag said:


> Does anyone have earbuds using the SR PRO driver which is a new version of the SR2 driver?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32252667305.html
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=20039954602
> 
> ...



Now I don't know which I have.  I bought the one you recommended last August.  The one with the stiff cable that we recabled.

You are saying there is a Pro that is better?  Not the same driver?


----------



## jogawag (Jun 14, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Now I don't know which I have.  I bought the one you recommended last August.  The one with the stiff cable that we recabled.
> 
> You are saying there is a Pro that is better?  Not the same driver?



You are saying about this  SR2 PRO earphone 16ohms?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32801890526.html

This is SR2(=driver) Pro(=silver plated stiff cable) earbuds, not earbuds using SR Pro driver.
You will be surprised at the difference between SR2 and SR Pro.


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> Now I don't know which I have.  I bought the one you recommended last August.  The one with the stiff cable that we recabled.
> 
> You are saying there is a Pro that is better?  Not the same driver?


Yes - Chitty confirmed that they don't use the Pro driver....I'm awaiting the Pro version along with Superfire.


----------



## mbwilson111

activatorfly said:


> Yes - Chitty confirmed that they don't use the Pro driver....I'm awaiting the Pro version along with Superfire.




Do you have an html link to the Pro that you ordered?


----------



## nick n (Jun 14, 2019)

waynes world said:


> Yeah, perfect logic. You'll like them so much, that you'll need spares. And then they will come out with different colours, and you will buy them all.. and spares of those of course! Perfect!


As an example, I am patiently waiting for the Grey, Red, Yellow and Green KubeV1's  to show up.
If you really want to get serious you often need to think of the future = spares of spares is the best way to feel content.
I mean really you never know when a bird will randomly fly down and grab them out of your ears when you are on a walk or something. they like good music too


----------



## waynes world

MisterMudd said:


> SR2 16Ohm on board. First impressions are good separation, soundstage, mids, and that BASS. Listening to Sir Sly's You Haunt Me (Remix) and the lows are impressive for an ear bud. There is good clarity, but the treble seems a little laid back, maybe slightly veiled. This could be my olden ears though, and quite frankly I am not hearing much above 12Hz these days. In not a believer in "burn-in" but I will let them play for a few days and see what happens. Then, maybe apply a little bit of top end sparkle via EQ. All in all - putting them at the top as king of my budget buds collection for now. Snow-Lotus 1.0+ wider and airier soundstage, but they are huge, while the SR2 is comfortably small shell like the Qian 25. Thanks again to everyone on this thread for suggestions. Have a great weekend of listening!





activatorfly said:


> Easily the best budget buds...imo



I'm not sure why, but for some reason I am thinking about the SR2's!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 15, 2019)

MisterMudd said:


> SR2 16Ohm on board. First impressions are good separation, soundstage, mids, and that BASS. Listening to Sir Sly's You Haunt Me (Remix) and the lows are impressive for an ear bud. There is good clarity, but the treble seems a little laid back, maybe slightly veiled. This could be my olden ears though, and quite frankly I am not hearing much above 12Hz these days. In not a believer in "burn-in" but I will let them play for a few days and see what happens. Then, maybe apply a little bit of top end sparkle via EQ. All in all - putting them at the top as king of my budget buds collection for now. Snow-Lotus 1.0+ wider and airier soundstage, but they are huge, while the SR2 is comfortably small shell like the Qian 25. Thanks again to everyone on this thread for suggestions. Have a great weekend of listening!


How do they sound on your headphone amps? Do they scale well?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 15, 2019)

_Besides the discontinued 300Ω VS Zen Lite_ is 150Ω the highest impedance one can now find for an earbud using the smaller shell format (PK/Docomo/Qian/VE Lite)?

What is(are) the hardest to drive earbud(s) in any shell size/type with very low sensitivity (Low SPL)?


----------



## wskl

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Is 150Ω the highest impedance one can find for an earbud using the smaller shell format (PK/Docomo/Qian/VE Lite)?*
> 
> What is(are) the hardest to drive earbud(s) in any shell size/type with very low sensitivity (Low SPL)?



VE Zen Lite is 300 or 320 ohms


----------



## capnjack

wskl said:


> VE Zen Lite is 300 or 320 ohms


So what impedance does the Zen LL come in at? or is Zen lite = LL?


----------



## wskl

capnjack said:


> So what impedance does the Zen LL come in at? or is Zen lite = LL?



Zen LL is 150 ohms, I think LL stands for "Lite Lite"


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 15, 2019)

wskl said:


> VE Zen Lite is 300 or 320 ohms


Yep, 300Ω as confirmed by VE's Lee but unfortunately they are no longer available  

Any others that you can think of?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

capnjack said:


> So what impedance does the Zen LL come in at? or is Zen lite = LL?





wskl said:


> Zen LL is 150 ohms, I think LL stands for "Lite Lite"


Yes, 150Ω. Definitely an earbud that I would love to acquire as their most unique signature is supposed to be the warmest, smoothest, and most relaxing of the entire VE line... but alas they are also not for sale (at least not directly)


----------



## Marcos Fontana

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, 150Ω. Definitely an earbud that I would love to acquire as their most unique signature is supposed to be the warmest, smoothest, and most relaxing of the entire VE line... but alas they are also not for sale (at least not directly)


They are awesome! I bought one RunAbout just to get one spare...


----------



## activatorfly

WoodyLuvr said:


> How do they sound on your headphone amps? Do they scale well?


Exceedingly well.


----------



## capnjack

Love the Zen LL, got a free pair because I’d bought the Zen II both are absolutely ‘the dogs dangly bits’!


----------



## Jsingh4

Guys Any idea how do Crystalcore Audio buds sound?
They look so rad.
I am thinking of getting this one in 150ohms


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Jsingh4 said:


> Guys Any idea how do Crystalcore Audio buds sound?
> They look so rad. I am thinking of getting this one in 150ohms


I'll surely let you know in about 6-9 days when I receive my Crystalcore Audio Kryptonite Copper 150Ω ear buds and give 'em a listen.


----------



## RobinFood

I got water stuck in my ear the other day and pulled out my Willsound MK2s and hooked them up to my ES100 for the first time in a long time. 
I had been listening pretty much only to True Wireless Earbuds and my good old ER4XR for the last few months.
Anyways, it sounded absolutely amazing, and was great to rediscover. Now I am really itching to get something even better!

I heard the Smabat is pretty good and the Amazon here actually has them cheaper than Aliexpress with next day delivery, but I read the reviews that they are pretty V-shaped and not really good for mids-vocals. Would I be better off with something else if I absolutely need detachable cables?


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Last batch...






2 ABnormal duotres 1.5, 2 JVC, 1 Shiro-yuki


----------



## irv003

ve asura1


----------



## darmanastartes

My Smabat ST-10 review is is up here on Head-Fi and on my blog!


----------



## mbwilson111

RobinFood said:


> I heard the Smabat is pretty good and the Amazon here actually has them cheaper than Aliexpress with next day delivery, but I read the reviews that they are pretty V-shaped and not really good for mids-vocals. Would I be better off with something else if I absolutely need detachable cables?



After reading your post earlier, I did some extended listening to some of my favorite male and female vocalists.  I did not find the ST-10 to be at all V shaped.  Mids were excellent to me as was everything else.  I was using the stock cable attached to my Opus #1 DAP.

I also lent it to @HungryPanda for a listen.  Hopefully he will comment.

After reading through the reviews I want to share this paragraph from @subwoof3r 's reviiew:

"Don’t underestimate this step, foams choice is probably the most important thing to do on these ST-10. Personally, I found them excellent with standard full thick foams. This way the bass are going extremely low due to the better fit, without sacrifying details at all and keep a great amount of mids and slightly taming the highs which makes ST-10 sounding close to perfection."

That sums it up for me.


----------



## wskl

RobinFood said:


> I heard the Smabat is pretty good and the Amazon here actually has them cheaper than Aliexpress with next day delivery, but I read the reviews that they are pretty V-shaped and not really good for mids-vocals. Would I be better off with something else if I absolutely need detachable cables?



IMHO, like @mbwilson111 who posted a bit earlier I hear nothing v-shaped with the Smabat, the midrange does not sound recessed to me.  If you trust ClieOS opinion he says it is neutral.


----------



## HungryPanda (Jun 16, 2019)

I enjoyed listening to the Smabat ST-10 and I was rather surprised how much better it sounded than my Svara-L's. Bass was tighter and more impactful, mids were fine and treble came through clear. Full foams were on them while I listened. I played some vocal jazz, blues rock and some modern pop.


----------



## ClieOS

RobinFood said:


> I heard the Smabat is pretty good and the Amazon here actually has them cheaper than Aliexpress with next day delivery, but I read the reviews that they are pretty V-shaped and not really good for mids-vocals. Would I be better off with something else if I absolutely need detachable cables?



You will have to take in the difference between each reviewer - if a person has been listened to something warm or mid-centric, then Smabat will probably sound rather V-shaped because how extended it is on both ended. My reference is however ER4S / ER4SR, so I tend to pay a little more attention to the relative quantity between the different frequency range and interpret ST-10 to fairly flat.


----------



## cyh03176

best looking earbuds ever?


----------



## Alexjjour

Luxury earpods


----------



## BadReligionPunk

A new line from a Kardashian?


----------



## GREQ

cyh03176 said:


> best looking earbuds ever?


----------



## Willber

Quick question: Is the Smabat ST-10 worth the extra over the Ourart Ti7? My priorities are soundstage and clarity. Thanks.


----------



## HungryPanda

I love my Ourart Ti7 and it has a more neutral tuning than the Smabat ST-10. What the Smabat has is a more lively sound with a better definition to my ears


----------



## Willber

HungryPanda said:


> I love my Ourart Ti7 and it has a more neutral tuning than the Smabat ST-10. What the Smabat has is a more lively sound with a better definition to my ears


Thanks. The definition thing is interesting. I use EQ so I'm not too bothered about the signatures. How are the relative soundstages?


----------



## theresanarc

Those of you using budget earbuds (under $20 or $30ish ones), any advice on what budget MP3 player to get? I really don't need any fancy features. Just something that has a display that can show playlists and stuff and that has a decent battery. Since I don't need any fancy features, I think under $50 would be nice but I'd go up to $100ish if it's worth the quality.

The DAP section in the forum seems confusing and everything there seems more higher end.


----------



## HungryPanda

I would say Ourart Ti7 just wins on sound stage but there isn't much in it


----------



## Willber

HungryPanda said:


> I would say Ourart Ti7 just wins on sound stage but there isn't much in it


That's good to hear. It would be difficult for me to justify the extra $40 for the Smabat unless it is significantly better.


----------



## HungryPanda

I would be happy listening to either


----------



## Willber

Ah, I should have done more homework. Now I have to ask, *Ti7 *or *ACG*?


----------



## Gonomon (Jun 16, 2019)

Hello to you all,
I don't know if its right place to ask for this but after my Boarseman K25 started to have channel imbalance i want to buy a new earbud with 10$ budget (it will be better if its cheaper ).
I also have MS16 but i can't use that well in public places since it leaks too much. So I want to ask for an earbud which has good overall sound quality for the budget.
Also, i prefer an earbud with good mids compared to other frequencies. I have an eye on qian39, pk2 and vido so far, would you recommend them, or should i buy something else?
I will be really happy for your responses, thank you ^^.


----------



## Willber

Gonomon said:


> Hello to you all,
> I don't know if its right place to ask for this but after my Boarseman K25 started to have channel imbalance i want to buy a new earbud with 10$ budget (it will be better if its cheaper ).
> I also have MS16 but i can't use that well in public places since it leaks too much. So I want to ask for an earbud which has good overall sound quality for the budget.
> Also, i prefer an earbud with good mids compared to other frequencies. I have an eye on qian39, pk2 and vido so far, would you recommend them, or should i buy something else?
> I will be really happy for your responses, thank you ^^.


Fengru Silver for $5:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...Earbud-Earphones-Pk-Mx985-A8/32687542028.html

They are my favourite of all my gear despite the low price. A search on here will show lots of support for them.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Was the Ry4s MMCX know about or am I just stumbling upon this amazing discovery? 
 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...91&spm=2114.12010611.8148356.8.693b308bJi3Us5


----------



## mbwilson111

BadReligionPunk said:


> Was the Ry4s MMCX know about or am I just stumbling upon this amazing discovery?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...91&spm=2114.12010611.8148356.8.693b308bJi3Us5



New to us.  I wonder what the plus version is.


----------



## AxelCloris

Let's please keep posts within the Posting Guidelines and avoid getting personal in the discussion. Thanks everyone.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

mbwilson111 said:


> New to us.  I wonder what the plus version is.



I dunno. Like $3 more though. Was going to order one or 2 or..


----------



## wskl

HungryPanda said:


> I love my Ourart Ti7 and it has a more neutral tuning than the Smabat ST-10. What the Smabat has is a more lively sound with a better definition to my ears





HungryPanda said:


> I would say Ourart Ti7 just wins on sound stage but there isn't much in it



Good to hear about this for the Ourart, I think I will have to consider this model if/when my Smabat dies on me.  But I do feel that the Smabat's highlight is the soundstage, nice and airy with excellent layering and separation.




Willber said:


> That's good to hear. It would be difficult for me to justify the extra $40 for the Smabat unless it is significantly better.



fyi ... there is a mid year sale starting 17th June, I see that most sellers will discount the Smabat to $79 so it will only be a $20 difference with the Ourart.


----------



## mbwilson111

BadReligionPunk said:


> I dunno. Like $3 more though. Was going to order one or 2 or..



I think I will get the plus.  My husband is getting the 300 ohm one.  I actually have a pretty nice cable spare to use with it.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Jun 16, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I think I will get the plus.  My husband is getting the 300 ohm one.  I actually have a pretty nice cable spare to use with it.


You  think the plus just comes with a cable? I may message them and see what they say.

Also what would the point of the 300ohm be? More balanced? Would 500mw in the Fiio M11 be enough to push it? Was just thinking about the 32 ohm and the PLus. Now maybe need the 300.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Messaged them and asked what the difference between 32 ohm and 32 ohm plus was.  I was messaged back "Different drive units, plus version sounds better".

So there you have it.


----------



## wskl

Another Fukubukuro Lucky Bag from NiceHCK
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...9-9-Limited-Quantity/1825606_33041694447.html


*The Lucky Bag Information:*

*①*It is a metal earbud in the lucky bag.
*
②*It has the same sound tuning engineer with NICEHCK EBX & EB2.

*③*Independently designed housing by NICEHCK Audio.

*④*This is another masterpiece earbud after EBX & EB2.
    It's amazing sound and you are sure to enjoy it. 
*
⑤*It is the best earbud under US $10.
_*The head-fi earbud expert, Mr ClieOS, he thinks it is amazing sound. *_

@ClieOS - any info you want to share?


----------



## ClieOS

wskl said:


> @ClieOS - any info you want to share?



I have promised not to divulge anything at this point, but I think it is safe to say none of you will regret getting this lucky bag deal.


----------



## cocolinho

for usd10 there is no real risk to take the plunge. Just bought!


----------



## Alex.Grimm

mbwilson111 said:


> New to us.  I wonder what the plus version is.



I asked the seller. He replied that plus is the same sound as in RY4S Hi version/UE version.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

wskl said:


> Another Fukubukuro Lucky Bag from NiceHCK
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...9-9-Limited-Quantity/1825606_33041694447.html


Could not resist... ordered!


----------



## wskl

WoodyLuvr said:


> Could not resist... ordered!



Same here ... lol


----------



## cyh03176

Bought it too. It is waiting time again.

Btw, anyone owns the Bravo Ocean amplifier here? Any good for earbuds?


----------



## sasak




----------



## wskl

theresanarc said:


> Those of you using budget earbuds (under $20 or $30ish ones), any advice on what budget MP3 player to get? I really don't need any fancy features. Just something that has a display that can show playlists and stuff and that has a decent battery. Since I don't need any fancy features, I think under $50 would be nice but I'd go up to $100ish if it's worth the quality.
> 
> The DAP section in the forum seems confusing and everything there seems more higher end.



You can try asking in the Obscure Chinese DAPs thread, there are many DAPs within your budget being discussed there.


----------



## cyh03176 (Jun 17, 2019)

sasak said:


>


even more looking forward to it now. it claims to have 15.4mm driver, which should be bigger than the usual drivers in mx500 shells (14.8mm)? 15.4mm drivers(titanium coated diaphragm)+ccaw voice coil+N52 magnet+aluminium alloy shell


----------



## Willber

cyh03176 said:


> even more looking forward to it now. it claims to have 15.4mm driver, which should be bigger than the usual drivers in mx500 shells (14.8mm)?


The MX500 shell holds 15.4mm drivers.


----------



## cyh03176

Willber said:


> The MX500 shell holds 15.4mm drivers.


haha thx for clarification. so is it pk shells hold 14.8mm drivers?


----------



## Willber

cyh03176 said:


> haha thx for clarification. so is it pk shells hold 14.8mm drivers?


Yep, that's right.


----------



## snip3r77

what should I get for my earbud sponge?


----------



## BrunoC

Does anyone knows the difference between the Willsound MK2 and the SMABAT ST-10 ? 

Is the SMABAT really an upgrade?


----------



## HungryPanda

The Smabat ST-10 sounds very different to the Willsound MK2


----------



## cyh03176

just clicked into zeva superfire's store link to check some updated review. guess what? sold out lol. now it's on pre-order basis.


----------



## RobinFood

HungryPanda said:


> The Smabat ST-10 sounds very different to the Willsound MK2



Are they different enough that sound-wise you can't declare one technically better than the other?


----------



## HungryPanda

different horses for different courses, Willsound MK2 is a fun foot stomping earbud, the Smabat is a deep listening technically appreciating earbud


----------



## RobinFood

HungryPanda said:


> different horses for different courses, Willsound MK2 is a fun foot stomping earbud, the Smabat is a deep listening technically appreciating earbud



Damnit, sounds like I need both...I knew it was a mistake to re-subscribe here.
I will probably wait until next pay check though...probably...


----------



## subwoof3r

Willsound MK2 is the king of mid-bass impact, while ST-10 has smoother impact but much better subbass extension.
Personally, I prefer ST-10, different joy I would say


----------



## Gonomon

Willber said:


> Fengru Silver for $5:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...Earbud-Earphones-Pk-Mx985-A8/32687542028.html
> 
> They are my favourite of all my gear despite the low price. A search on here will show lots of support for them.



After a little bit of search, these seemed more like what i want compared to other earbuds in my list so i ordered it.
I will share my thoughts about it when it arrives.
Thank you for your advice ^^.


----------



## HungryPanda

wskl said:


> Another Fukubukuro Lucky Bag from NiceHCK
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...9-9-Limited-Quantity/1825606_33041694447.html
> 
> 
> ...


 Just had to order a couple, sucker for a Fukubukuro


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Yea I added one as well. Going to be lots of intensive therapy sessions ahead. My friend from Japan comes in this weekend bearing purchases of mine from Amazon Japan that get sent to his house. Lol.

Better to ask forgiveness then to ask permission huh?


----------



## waynes world

ClieOS said:


> I have promised not to divulge anything at this point, but I think it is safe to say none of you will regret getting this lucky bag deal.



Thank you.. I was starting to get the "itchy buy now" finger (which isn't always kind to me). But now the itch has safely been scratched


----------



## Alex.Grimm

WillSound made Version MX32 with new driver Rev2


----------



## crtninja

Grabbed the lucky bag, 'cause I clearly need more 'buds. Excited, if it is as good as it claims.


----------



## Willber

Me too, I might put my Ourart/Smabat purchase on hold.
I might...


----------



## DBaldock9

The DIY L614 - 14.3mm (32Ω) Wooden Earbuds that I ordered from CKLewis Audio Store have arrived.
These are very similar to, but slightly deeper than, a set of Daik DK-Song (16Ω) earbuds that I've got.  The larger back chamber in the shell seems to help these have a bit more Bass response.  
I've installed a set of Hiegi Donut Foams, attached them to a 2.5mm TRRS to MMCX cable, and plugged them in to my Little Bear B4-X Balanced Tube Amp, and using my Onkyo DP-X1 as a source, to play FLAC files of my CDs and High Res music tracks.  
They have a fairly "balanced" sound - a good sense of Bass (but doesn't go quite as low as some larger earbuds), clear Midrange (good vocals), and detailed Treble.
Their Sound Stage is wide, with a closer perspective, rather than the seemingly deeper stage that I notice on earbuds with a recessed Midrange.

For someone who wants a smaller sized earbud with MMCX connectors, these could be a good choice.


----------



## waynes world

Willber said:


> Me too, I might put my Ourart/Smabat purchase on hold.
> I might...



No chance the ME80's could beat out your mighty Fengru Silvers... or could they??? (p.s. my Silvers are... somewhere. Hope to see them one of these days!).


----------



## cyh03176

alright, time to enter the high impedance earbuds world as i just got a budget tube amp 

is Faaeal 300 ohm a good choice? max budget is $55.


----------



## Willber

waynes world said:


> No chance the ME80's could beat out your mighty Fengru Silvers... or could they???


We shall see... bring it on!


----------



## waynes world

Willber said:


> We shall see... bring it on!



Lol - good emoji! I thought I'd better check the mail box, and the Silvers were there 

I have them in my ears now (using the stock full foams), and I concur - they are great right out of the box!


----------



## cyh03176

waynes world said:


> Lol - good emoji! I thought I'd better check the mail box, and the Silvers were there
> 
> I have them in my ears now (using the stock full foams), and I concur - they are great right out of the box!


it sounds very clean indeed


----------



## 40760




----------



## snip3r77

palestofwhite said:


>



copped blind


----------



## cqtek

palestofwhite said:


>



As it's Mr @ClieOS's word, I bought it too. I'm sure it won't disappoint!


----------



## ClieOS

I guess the cat is out of the bag with the lucky bag deal - I will share a little more info about the ME80 tonight.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 18, 2019)

palestofwhite said:


>



I heard the information that this is *NICEHCK ME80 *in taobao.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

cqtek said:


> As it's Mr @ClieOS's word, I bought it too. I'm sure it won't disappoint!


I wonder when the NICEHCK ClieOS HD Earbud will be released?


----------



## mbwilson111

ClieOS said:


> I guess the cat is out of the bag with the lucky bag deal - I will share a little more info about the ME80 tonight.



Personally I am sad about all the spoilers... and so quickly.  I enjoy the mystery.   That was gone about 5 minutes after we ordered ours.  Oh well.  I know they will be good.


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Thank you.. I was starting to get the "itchy buy now" finger (which isn't always kind to me). But now the itch has safely been scratched



i bought it. can't resist


mbwilson111 said:


> Personally I am sad about all the spoilers... and so quickly.  I enjoy the mystery.   That was gone about 5 minutes after we ordered ours.  Oh well.  I know they will be good.



i understand the spoiler took the fun out of the mystery, but it turns out it made me make the purchase    it looks interesting. it has been shipped this morning, i hope it would reach my home before the end of this month so i can take it on my vacation


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> i bought it. can't resist
> 
> 
> i understand the spoiler took the fun out of the mystery, but it turns out it made me make the purchase    it looks interesting. it has been shipped this morning, i hope it would reach my home before the end of this month so i can take it on my vacation



We received a shipping notice only a couple of hours after ordering!  Things usually arrive quickly here so I am hoping by the end of next week.


----------



## nxnje

mbwilson111 said:


> Personally I am sad about all the spoilers... and so quickly.  I enjoy the mystery.   That was gone about 5 minutes after we ordered ours.  Oh well.  I know they will be good.


Agreed.
Why would that be called "mystery box" if you already know what's hiding indide.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Perhaps the sound will be the surprise?


----------



## ClieOS

mbwilson111 said:


> Personally I am sad about all the spoilers... and so quickly.  I enjoy the mystery.   That was gone about 5 minutes after we ordered ours.  Oh well.  I know they will be good.



If it helps, I can always not talk about it until the first person received the package?  (*holding my mouth as tight as possible*)


----------



## nxnje

WoodyLuvr said:


> Perhaps the sound will be the surprise?



Think imma skip this mystery box, bought the last fukubukuro from em and was good. 
Earbuds are not what i like most. 
Hope for you it will be awesome like other NiceHCK products (i have the EB2 and i think it's really good with correct amping)


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 18, 2019)

@ClieOS  My two cents... spill the beans!

Enough is already known now and your mini-review just may help NICEHCK sell even more earbuds. We need to support and push the advancement and betterment of earbuds as much as we can whenever we can.


----------



## chinmie

nxnje said:


> Agreed.
> Why would that be called "mystery box" if you already know what's hiding indide.



or you could put it in a spoiler box, so people who are curious (me included) can click and read while not disturbing others that don't want to read it


----------



## nxnje

chinmie said:


> or you could put it in a spoiler box, so people who are curious (me included) can click and read while not disturbing others that don't want to read it



Agree on this as well. 
This is a very good idea.
Spoilers can be useful many times.


----------



## snip3r77

ClieOS said:


> If it helps, I can always not talk about it until the first person received the package?  (*holding my mouth as tight as possible*)



you may PM me the review and post here in public at a later time friend if it's OK


----------



## waynes world (Jun 18, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> If it helps, I can always not talk about it until the first person received the package?  (*holding my mouth as tight as possible*)





Spoiler



Spoiler! Spoiler! Spoiler! You know you wanna!


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> or you could put it in a spoiler box, so people who are curious (me included) can click and read while not disturbing others that don't want to read it



Yes spoiler boxes should have been used already.


----------



## CharlesRievone

Following for spoilers.


----------



## Mercian

Newbie of earbuds and had just joined the forum. Bought a bunch of Earbuds based on y'all's recommendation. Thank y'all for that, having lotsa fun.

Lover of ANN N200 yet I wish for a bit more bass/sub bass on top of it. Any recommendation for an upgrade? (Price irrelevant)

Also have the Smabat ST-10 and really love that deep bass rumble. Only if it could have the fuller meatier lush mid of ANN N200; which actually reminded me of IEM Andromeda (the mids.)


----------



## irv003

ty hi-z32


----------



## Eagle_Driver

Enough of what I stated previously in this thread, but speaking of non-isolating earphones, I have not gotten anything newer than the infamous Apple EarPods. And my last good earphones (which I still have, minus the foam pads) are the Sony MDR-E888LP (my sample was made in Japan, but later samples were made in Thailand). My next non-isolating earphone purchase will be a relatively cheap wireless model (this completely eliminates the ultra-expensive $200 Apple AirPods).


----------



## cyh03176 (Jun 18, 2019)

May I ask what was the selling price for Smabat ST10 and EBX? Thanks.


----------



## fairx

I'm intrigued by 300 ohm ry4s. I always wondered what if ry4s UE given more resistance, will it boost better speed and resolution? 

But then there's the fukubukuro.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Jun 18, 2019)

cyh03176 said:


> May I ask what was the selling price for Smabat ST10 and EBX? Thanks.


I am going by fuzzy memory, but I think smabat was $100-$110, and EBX was $150. Got my EBX for $75 last year. That seems to be the sale price, but I see one for $57 if you have the $10 off $69 coupon coupled with $2 off coupon and are using the mobile app. That's a no brainer at that price.


----------



## cyh03176

BadReligionPunk said:


> I am going by fuzzy memory, but I think smabat was $100-$110, and EBX was $150. Got my EBX for $75 last year. That seems to be the sale price, but I see one for $57 if you have the $10 off $69 coupon coupled with $2 off coupon and are using the mobile app. That's a no brainer at that price.


thanks for the reply. im wondering which one to buy now as both are only around $75 >.<

any suggestion? thank you.


----------



## DBaldock9

cyh03176 said:


> thanks for the reply. im wondering which one to buy now as both are only around $75 >.<
> 
> any suggestion? thank you.



The Smabat ST-10 are a more comfortable fit for my ears.


----------



## snip3r77

ClieOS said:


> If it helps, I can always not talk about it until the first person received the package?  (*holding my mouth as tight as possible*)


Is me80 a new model?
Not sure if 9.90 is a launch price or


----------



## ClieOS (Jun 19, 2019)

snip3r77 said:


> Is me80 a new model?
> Not sure if 9.90 is a launch price or



Yes, new model. I assume that's the official MSRP. Edit: See my next post


----------



## RuFrost

If somebody decide to sell their seinheser mx980/985/omx980.... let me know) 

Also have many interesting earbuds for the trade. PM me)

St10 is truly the best or one of the best for classical music.


----------



## luedriver

ClieOS said:


> If it helps, I can always not talk about it until the first person received the package?  (*holding my mouth as tight as possible*)



at least, can you say if it has detachable cables or not?

I'd prefer it didn't, IMHO


----------



## chinmie

luedriver said:


> at least, can you say if it has detachable cables or not?
> 
> I'd prefer it didn't, IMHO


 by the looks of the picture, i think it is non detachable


----------



## ClieOS

luedriver said:


> at least, can you say if it has detachable cables or not?
> 
> I'd prefer it didn't, IMHO



No, don't have detachable cable.

Also, I asked them and they confirm the price will increase after the promotion / lucky bag deal.


----------



## luedriver

chinmie said:


> by the looks of the picture, i think it is non detachable



can I see it? send a pm if you dont want to spoil it for anyone else


----------



## chinmie

luedriver said:


> can I see it? send a pm if you dont want to spoil it for anyone else



you can see it here


Spoiler



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2863#post-15014855


----------



## coflaes

ClieOS said:


> No, don't have detachable cable.
> 
> Also, I asked them and they confirm the price will increase after the promotion / lucky bag deal.


can You pls tell us more about the me80 sound? How it compare to ebx for example


----------



## ClieOS

coflaes said:


> can You pls tell us more about the me80 sound? How it compare to ebx for example





Spoiler: DO NOT OPEN



Specious and clean sounding, slightly warm but mostly neutral with a deep reaching bass rumble, but not a bass monster by quantity. Slightly less warm when compared to EB2 but with double the soundstage, while EBX is much warmer and more room-filling. ME80 is different in the sense that it doesn't quite have the warmness over mid-range as the EB series. In a way, I'll say it has PT15 kind of sound but better balanced tonally.


----------



## ValSilva

Thank you @ClieOS always good recommendations


----------



## waynes world

Spoiler: sounds like a winner!


----------



## chellity

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FEN...ml?spm=2114.10010108.1000023.7.20167cbeS03wgk

looks like you can even get the classic emx500 with mmcx for a good price, now  if only i still wasnt rocking my sabia mmcx every day...the pink shell emx500 is speaking to me.


----------



## waynes world

chellity said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FEN...ml?spm=2114.10010108.1000023.7.20167cbeS03wgk
> 
> looks like you can even get the classic emx500 with mmcx for a good price, now  if only i still wasnt rocking my sabia mmcx every day...the pink shell emx500 is speaking to me.



How are you enjoying the sabia mmcx's? I will hopefully have them some day (I already have the regular Sabia's).


----------



## mbwilson111

chellity said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FEN...ml?spm=2114.10010108.1000023.7.20167cbeS03wgk
> 
> looks like you can even get the classic emx500 with mmcx for a good price, now  if only i still wasnt rocking my sabia mmcx every day...the pink shell emx500 is speaking to me.



I have that coming in silver with no cable but I ordered a pink 6 core copper cable for it


----------



## chellity (Jun 19, 2019)

waynes world said:


> How are you enjoying the sabia mmcx's? I will hopefully have them some day (I already have the regular Sabia's).



I have both the mmcx pearl version and the normal base version, and I definitely love them both.  Even though I dipped my feet into decent IEMs by getting some isine 10s, I still use my sabias at my computer and for gaming, because they dont need massive amounts of EQ like isines do and just sound more natural overall.  I even managed to get 2 of my friends who aren't in the audio hobby to get the sabias before they sold out, and they both thought they were amazing.

For fun: a quick comparision between some ~$35 sabia mmcx earbuds vs some $150 iSine10 IEMS with version 1 and 2 cipher cable

iSine 10 with cipher cable and personalized sub bass EQ:
+Larger soundstage width
++ Dynamic/Impactful sound
++Bass Quantity and Quality

Sabia mmcx pearl version with a 6 core copper cable (no EQ)::
++Natural Mid Tonality
++ Treble Tonality
+Soundstage depth and Imaging (gaming)

The sabias can still hold their own in some areas even against some IEMS costing much more that need a fancy digital cable and massive amounts of EQ to sound anywhere close to normal.  While I love my isine 10s for what they are, they are so reliant on the cipher cable and EQ that I just choose to use my sabias as my daily driver for computing and gaming because they just don't do anything wrong, plus are more than usable for even shooting games where you need to detect footsteps around you.  They're my benchmark earbuds, still.


----------



## doggiemom

Argh, read the spoilers before they were hidden as spoilers.    Haven't bought any buds for a few months, so will pull the trigger on this one.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 19, 2019)

doggiemom said:


> Argh, read the spoilers before they were hidden as spoilers.    Haven't bought any buds for a few months, so will pull the trigger on this one.



You have a lot of catching up to do!  

We miss seeing you in here.


----------



## waynes world

chellity said:


> I have both the mmcx pearl version and the normal base version, and I definitely love them both.  Even though I dipped my feet into decent IEMs by getting some isine 10s, I still use my sabias at my computer and for gaming, because they dont need massive amounts of EQ like isines do and just sound more natural overall.  I even managed to get 2 of my friends who aren't in the audio hobby to get the sabias before they sold out, and they both thought they were amazing.
> 
> For fun: a quick comparision between some ~$35 sabia mmcx earbuds vs some $150 iSine10 IEMS with version 1 and 2 cipher cable
> 
> ...



Very cool! I use my Sabia's nightly for sleeping. They are great for trance, and very good even at low volumes. I'm looking forward to the mmcx version so I can try them out balanced (and to have a sabia spare of course!).


----------



## jogawag (Jun 19, 2019)

Has anyone got Moondrop CHACONNE?
Tell me Its weight, wearing feeling and sounds.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33040362551.html


----------



## letlive

waynes world said:


> I'm looking forward to the mmcx version so I can try them out balanced (and to have a sabia spare of course!).


I have also both, the MMCX and the basic version. The MMCX version sounds more open with a larger soundstage, but has less bass quantity. I like them both.


----------



## subwoof3r

chellity said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FEN...ml?spm=2114.10010108.1000023.7.20167cbeS03wgk
> 
> looks like you can even get the classic emx500 with mmcx for a good price, now  if only i still wasnt rocking my sabia mmcx every day...the pink shell emx500 is speaking to me.


If I may suggest, I would never buy those kind of MMCX mount into the shells, I don't like the way it has been put. Looks incredibly fragile (the way it goes out like this), I'm sure it will break after few disconnects or even more the first time you will disconnect a cable with very hard connectors to detach. It's always much better to do these kind of DIY by ourselves (if possible of course).
I'm sure all the sellers who takes the risk to sell those MX500 shells mounted like that will have a lot of after sale.


----------



## mbwilson111

subwoof3r said:


> If I may suggest, I would never buy those kind of MMCX mount into the shells, I don't like the way it has been put. Looks incredibly fragile (the way it goes out like this), I'm sure it will break after few disconnects or even more the first time you will disconnect a cable with very hard connectors to detach. It's always much better to do these kind of DIY by ourselves (if possible of course).
> I'm sure all the sellers who takes the risk to sell those MX500 shells mounted like that will have a lot of after sale.



Do you have a photo to compare how you would do it... or have done it?


----------



## SuperMAG

ClieOS said:


> Spoiler: DO NOT OPEN
> 
> 
> 
> Specious and clean sounding, slightly warm but mostly neutral with a deep reaching bass rumble, but not a bass monster by quantity. Slightly less warm when compared to EB2 but with double the soundstage, while EBX is much warmer and more room-filling. ME80 is different in the sense that it doesn't quite have the warmness over mid-range as the EB series. In a way, I'll say it has PT15 kind of sound but better balanced tonally.


Mmm i don't quite understand, ok how is the fullness of the sound, is it big or thin sound, are the voices thick and big or thin and sharp. 

How is this compared to lemon bs1.


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> Do you have a photo to compare how you would do it... or have done it?




 

my Willsounds: MK3 and MK1. not done by me though, but by the good mr Willy himself


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 20, 2019)

chinmie said:


> my Willsounds: MK3 and MK1. not done by me though, but by the good mr Willy himself



Does he trim off part of the bottom of the shell?  It looks shorter overall.


This is the one I am getting.  It does stick out a little more.  I think it might be ok for me because once I choose a cable and attach it, I rarely... usually never... change it.   Also we have tools to use for safer removal.    I never tug on the cable.







This will be its cable... balanced for my sources that have 2.5mm balanced output


----------



## subwoof3r (Jun 20, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Do you have a photo to compare how you would do it... or have done it?


Sure! like *THIS* 
After watching *THIS* video, everything began...


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> my Willsounds: MK3 and MK1. not done by me though, but by the good mr Willy himself



Out of curiosity, would you say they would be usable with your BT20 upside down style or is that not really feasable?


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> Does he trim off part of the bottom of the shell? It looks shorter overall.



i think he just enlarged the inner bore and glued it, because other than the very tip that's abit flattened /filed, the length isn't any different from the stock shell

  




RobinFood said:


> Out of curiosity, would you say they would be usable with your BT20 upside down style or is that not really feasable?



alas, mine is the 2 pin version so i can really test it, but i also ordered the BT20S in mmcx yesterday. I'll report back to you when i have it


----------



## GREQ

Sorry for going slightly off topic here, but this is bothering me way too much now.
Does anyone know why almost every single aliexpress link posted in this thread send me to this? : 





I've tried clearing cookies, using different browsers, bit it still occurs even on different devices.
Is this just because the items don't ship to my country, and the page doesn't appear for specific geo-IPs? 
Or are these products actually out of stock moments after the links to items are posted here on this thread because people buy them up instantly?
This one has me completely stumped.


----------



## mbwilson111

GREQ said:


> Sorry for going slightly off topic here, but this is bothering me way too much now.
> Does anyone know why almost every single aliexpress link posted in this thread send me to this? :
> 
> 
> ...



Is it those weird mobile links that have the word click in them or is it regular html links?  All the mobile ones just take me to the ali home page so are useless to me.  Proper html links work.... but of course one should remove all the affiliate crap... everything after the .html


----------



## GREQ

mbwilson111 said:


> Is it those weird mobile links that have the word click in them or is it regular html links?  All the mobile ones just take me to the ali home page so are useless to me.  Proper html links work.... but of course one should remove all the affiliate crap... everything after the .html


This link for example, posted 1 page back.


chellity said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FEN...ml?spm=2114.10010108.1000023.7.20167cbeS03wgk
> 
> looks like you can even get the classic emx500 with mmcx for a good price, now  if only i still wasnt rocking my sabia mmcx every day...the pink shell emx500 is speaking to me.


When quoted here, it even looks like a normal HTML link, and even copying it and pasting it with or without the stuff after ".html" still leads to the same *'Page not found'.*


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 20, 2019)

GREQ said:


> This link for example, posted 1 page back.
> 
> When quoted here, it even looks like a normal HTML link, and even copying it and pasting it with or without the stuff after ".html" still leads to the same *'Page not found'.*



That one works on my PC using Firefox and also on my tablet.


----------



## HungryPanda

I can get to the page no problem


----------



## GREQ

To be clear, it doesn't work on Chrome, Edge or Firefox at home or on my work PC.
Also does not work on Samsung Edge 7 or Apple iPad.

Always gives the same error page.


----------



## mbwilson111

GREQ said:


> To be clear, it doesn't work on Chrome, Edge or Firefox at home or on my work PC.
> Also does not work on Samsung Edge 7 or Apple iPad.
> 
> Always gives the same error page.



Are you being blocked by your country?  Where are you?


----------



## DBaldock9

GREQ said:


> To be clear, it doesn't work on Chrome, Edge or Firefox at home or on my work PC.
> Also does not work on Samsung Edge 7 or Apple iPad.
> 
> Always gives the same error page.



When you go to the AliExpress home page, can you search for the 11-digit number (33019871036), which appears just before the .html in the link?


----------



## GREQ

mbwilson111 said:


> Are you being blocked by your country?  Where are you?


I'm in Germany. I have no idea if it's blocking specific items. 
I can open the website and run normal searches without any problems. It's really weird....  (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ 



DBaldock9 said:


> When you go to the AliExpress home page, can you search for the 11-digit number (33019871036), which appears just before the .html in the link?


Assuming you mean the normal search function for shopping - nope.. still nothing.


----------



## GREQ

Ok, I think I've worked it out.
I think these items simply don't ship to EU.


----------



## mbwilson111

GREQ said:


> Ok, I think I've worked it out.
> I think these items simply don't ship to EU.



But we are in the EU... sort of... hopefully...  dreading if that changes.


----------



## GREQ

mbwilson111 said:


> But we are in the EU... sort of... hopefully...  dreading if that changes.


Oh wow... it really seems to just not ship to Germany. That's bizarre.


----------



## Veyska

Decided to indulge a masochistic impulse and picked up one of the super cheap pairs folks were recommending (the Fengru silver I think it was).  Arrived the other day and apparently in the decade or two since last I bothered trying traditional earbuds there's been a vast improvement in how well they stay in my ears... which is to say if I'm just sitting in a chair I can actually look around without them going kerplonk out of my ears.  Still not stable enough for anything useful but hey...  Tried flipping them cable up like they were MMCX but they didn't sound as decent like that and I can't tell how much of that is the earbud factor generally relying on gravity to get a firm fit and how much is this earbud design being restricted to cable down.  Results inconclusive, suspecting I should have just spent a few bucks more and nabbed something like the PT15 even though it might not have been as highly rated sound-wise because this was as much a form factor experiment as anything.

They did sound pretty good though... at least until I A/B-ed them against my 100$ Sennheiser IE 40 Pro (at which point they still sounded good for 5$ but you could hear the price range).


----------



## cyh03176

Veyska said:


> Decided to indulge a masochistic impulse and picked up one of the super cheap pairs folks were recommending (the Fengru silver I think it was).  Arrived the other day and apparently in the decade or two since last I bothered trying traditional earbuds there's been a vast improvement in how well they stay in my ears... which is to say if I'm just sitting in a chair I can actually look around without them going kerplonk out of my ears.  Still not stable enough for anything useful but hey...  Tried flipping them cable up like they were MMCX but they didn't sound as decent like that and I can't tell how much of that is the earbud factor generally relying on gravity to get a firm fit and how much is this earbud design being restricted to cable down.  Results inconclusive, suspecting I should have just spent a few bucks more and nabbed something like the PT15 even though it might not have been as highly rated sound-wise because this was as much a form factor experiment as anything.
> 
> They did sound pretty good though... at least until I A/B-ed them against my 100$ Sennheiser IE 40 Pro (at which point they still sounded good for 5$ but you could hear the price range).


of course there will be differences. the fengru silver or tingo tg-38s is excellent for casual listening of vocals as it is very sweet and also very clean. the ie 40 pro is designed for stage monitoring which should emphasis on details and accuracy


----------



## irv003

mbwilson111 said:


> Does he trim off part of the bottom of the shell?  It looks shorter overall.



its much cleaner if we trimmed off that extra tail on the shell so the mmcx thread will be buried inside, not visible just like in your pic.


----------



## Willber

Veyska said:


> Decided to indulge a masochistic impulse and picked up one of the super cheap pairs folks were recommending (the Fengru silver I think it was).  Arrived the other day and apparently in the decade or two since last I bothered trying traditional earbuds there's been a vast improvement in how well they stay in my ears... which is to say if I'm just sitting in a chair I can actually look around without them going kerplonk out of my ears.  Still not stable enough for anything useful but hey...  Tried flipping them cable up like they were MMCX but they didn't sound as decent like that and I can't tell how much of that is the earbud factor generally relying on gravity to get a firm fit and how much is this earbud design being restricted to cable down.  Results inconclusive, suspecting I should have just spent a few bucks more and nabbed something like the PT15 even though it might not have been as highly rated sound-wise because this was as much a form factor experiment as anything.
> 
> They did sound pretty good though... at least until I A/B-ed them against my 100$ Sennheiser IE 40 Pro (at which point they still sounded good for 5$ but you could hear the price range).


I agree that a good fit is important. Many people find the MX500 shell is not ideal for them.
Do you use foams?


----------



## Veyska (Jun 20, 2019)

cyh03176 said:


> of course there will be differences. the fengru silver or tingo tg-38s is excellent for casual listening of vocals as it is very sweet and also very clean. the ie 40 pro is designed for stage monitoring which should emphasis on details and accuracy


Oh I wasn't expecting it to hold up to the IE 40 Pro, I was just amused.  For 5$ it does sound quite nice.  



Willber said:


> I agree that a good fit is important. Many people find the MX500 shell is not ideal for them.
> Do you use foams?


I tried with and without.  My ears just don't play well with earbuds is the main thing, pretty sure I inherited that from my dad because he can't use 'em either.  When sitting there it was staying in just fine so if it is a fit thing it's a relatively minor one.  S'just until I got my first IEM over the winter holidays it had never occurred to me to try running an earbud cable over ear for stability, which is part of why I'm suspecting I should have just gotten the proper form factor for doing so rather than trying to have my cake and eat it too with respected sound too.


----------



## cyh03176

Willber said:


> I agree that a good fit is important. Many people find the MX500 shell is not ideal for them.
> Do you use foams?


May I know do you use full foam or donut foam with your Silver?


----------



## Willber

cyh03176 said:


> May I know do you use full foam or donut foam with your Silver?


Full.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 20, 2019)

GREQ said:


> This link for example, posted 1 page back.
> 
> When quoted here, it even looks like a normal HTML link, and even copying it and pasting it with or without the stuff after ".html" still leads to the same *'Page not found'.*



You should not copy and paste the shrinking string of the link. You should only click the link.


----------



## cyh03176

decided to buy the to600 as it is $59.40 during the current promo on aliexpress. good choice? want to try high impedance earbud.

another issue, i need $65 only to take advantage of a further $6 discount coupon. any suggestion?
1. moondrop shiro-yuki (does it really have the "harman curve"?)
2. qian69
both are $11 now

any comment is deeply appreciated. thank you.


----------



## GREQ

jogawag said:


> You should not copy and paste the shrinking string of the link. You should only click the link.


Of course, that's the first thing I tried.
As I mentioned before, I already worked out the problem. The items are blocked from appearing when the website it set to 'ships to Germany'.


----------



## AudioNoob (Jun 21, 2019)

Any sub $15 options on the neutral, perhaps detailed side with a good soundstage? I need something that has a thinner lip/edge or a greater distance between the stem and the lip, the mx500 style shells don't really fit me and hurt around the anti-tragus.


----------



## kurtextrem

Rose posted its new flagship on instagram: Rose Martini. https://www.instagram.com/p/By92YO2p1BP/


----------



## cyh03176

kurtextrem said:


> Rose posted its new flagship on instagram: Rose Martini. https://www.instagram.com/p/By92YO2p1BP/


what are those tubes for?


----------



## Jsingh4

WoodyLuvr said:


> I'll surely let you know in about 6-9 days when I receive my Crystalcore Audio Kryptonite Copper 150Ω ear buds and give 'em a listen.


Did you receive em yet?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Jsingh4 said:


> Did you receive em yet?


Nope, still waiting. Haven't received a shipping notice yet so I guess they are still a'building 'em.


----------



## mbwilson111

cyh03176 said:


> 1. moondrop shiro-yuki (does it really have the "harman curve"?)



I am not into graphs but I will say that the shiro-yuki sounds great.  It is a fairly balanced sound to my ears and I am able to listen to it for hours and hours without fatigue.


----------



## irv003

sony mdr-w20


----------



## WoodyLuvr

irv003 said:


> sony mdr-w20


A nice blast from the past!


----------



## irv003

WoodyLuvr said:


> A nice blast from the past!


oldy but SQ still to beat

warmish but with great treble extensions.
not fatiguing at all. never thought this would sound great.


----------



## nick n

irv003 said:


> oldy but SQ still to beat
> 
> warmish but with great treble extensions.
> not fatiguing at all. never thought this would sound great.



Yep have one also, nice to see this in here.


----------



## DAndrew

I am so angry that I decided to put aside some important irl stuff just to write this lol.

DO NOT buy the Toneking TO400s. While the sound quality is good and pleasant (dat soundstage) it has horrible build and today I got fed up with it. I had problems from the day I got it (when I bought it at almost full price); while the cable looks like a dirt cheap 2$ cable (on a 100$ bud) with a tiny plastic jack, it wasnt even fully braided on the right side and the left side had sound interruptions (like really). 
I said it's ok its just the cable and let it slide but today the left driver started dying...I didnt even push them and I get this horrible rattling sound from it after just one year. No other earbud I own has had this problem, none. 
So I went ahead and got my EMX500 and blew the dust off of it (literally lol) and guess what, the feeling you get from switching to another pair of earbuds/headphones after listening to one for a long time, you can just tell the differences right away, just wasnt there...the EMX is 80% as good as the TO400s when driven from a Galaxy S7. You are only wasting your money with this earbud, do not buy it.

This is unacceptable and it was the first and last time I get something from this brand. 

/rant


----------



## mbwilson111

DAndrew said:


> I am so angry that I decided to put aside some important irl stuff just to write this lol.
> 
> DO NOT buy the Toneking TO400s. While the sound quality is good and pleasant (dat soundstage) it has horrible build and today I got fed up with it. I had problems from the day I got it (when I bought it at almost full price); while the cable looks like a dirt cheap 2$ cable (on a 100$ bud) with a tiny plastic jack, it wasnt even fully braided on the right side and the left side had sound interruptions (like really).
> I said it's ok its just the cable and let it slide but today the left driver started dying...I didnt even push them and I get this horrible rattling sound from it after just one year. No other earbud I own has had this problem, none.
> ...



You should contact the seller.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Hello Folks,

I received this Docomo today. It sounds awesome and I think that everybody should have this...






https://www.aliexpress.com/item/PK1...957.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dEGs6H5


----------



## DAndrew

mbwilson111 said:


> You should contact the seller.



It was after I found out there are banned sellers, and that store is one of them. Starts with Woo ; I sent pictures of the cable on the day I received it. They asked for video? Thats when I knew I wasnt getting my money back...


----------



## DAndrew

Marcos Fontana said:


> Hello Folks,
> 
> I received this Docomo today. It sounds awesome and I think that everybody should have this...
> 
> ...



40$ for a docomo? and with that cable??


----------



## mbwilson111

Marcos Fontana said:


> Hello Folks,
> 
> I received this Docomo today. It sounds awesome and I think that everybody should have this...
> 
> ...



Looks nice.  I knew someone had ordered  that version.   I have the pink cabled one on the way.


----------



## mbwilson111

DAndrew said:


> It was after I found out there are banned sellers, and that store is one of them. Starts with Woo ; I sent pictures of the cable on the day I received it. They asked for video? Thats when I knew I wasnt getting my money back...



That is a standard request on ali....not just one seller.  It won't help to get angry.


----------



## DAndrew

mbwilson111 said:


> That is a standard request on ali....not just one seller.  It won't help to get angry.



Not one seller asked for video when photos are all that you need, but I already confirmed the package as received so not even the video helped...was promised another cable that never came. Oh well


----------



## chellity

Marcos Fontana said:


> Hello Folks,
> 
> I received this Docomo today. It sounds awesome and I think that everybody should have this...
> 
> ...



They even have a bluetooth version  While I originally got my sabia mmcx to use for things like that, I just couldnt use them for working out with how sweaty I get  These would be perfect for me...its just safer to be able to hear things around you while working out, whether running outside or lifting in a gym.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Doe anyone here have a picture of the Sabia MMCX?


----------



## activatorfly

BadReligionPunk said:


> Doe anyone here have a picture of the Sabia MMCX?


https://www.facebook.com/rholupat09...tal-vjc-detached-mmcx-soon-/2159111777655592/


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Jun 21, 2019)

activatorfly said:


> https://www.facebook.com/rholupat09...tal-vjc-detached-mmcx-soon-/2159111777655592/


Well that's the VUNBUD. I own that. Are the Sabia MMCX exactly the same(stems cut)? Just want to know if there is any reason to pursue one if I already have one with awesome VJC cable?


----------



## Marcos Fontana

DAndrew said:


> 40$ for a docomo? and with that cable??


The cable and the plug are awesome.


----------



## theresanarc

Got my first PK shell earbud (ST-16 I think they're called, those cheap red ones). They sound a bit different from the others I have for sure, not better or worse yet but I will say that the shell isn't as good as I'd hoped. It's bigger than the Qian39 shell it feels, either way, I think the Qian39 are still my favourite in terms of ergonomics and I like their sound signature as well for vocal heavy rock/pop rock/indie. It's just annoying that there are a billion MX500 shell buds and dozens of PK shell buds but only the Monk Lite and the Qian39 in the smaller thinner and imo, comfier shell.


----------



## areek

Can anyone here suggest me an earbud with Vido like tonality but better? Sub 100$, if possible.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

theresanarc said:


> It's just annoying that there are a billion MX500 shell buds and dozens of PK shell buds but only the Monk Lite and the Qian39 in the smaller thinner and imo, comfier shell.


Hear ye, hear ye!


----------



## AudioNoob

WoodyLuvr said:


> Hear ye, hear ye!


I asked earlier but is there a step up option in non mx500 shells? Up to 20 with mic and neutral/detailed preferred.


----------



## DAndrew

areek said:


> Can anyone here suggest me an earbud with Vido like tonality but better? Sub 100$, if possible.



For something thats not expensive you could try the EMX500


----------



## DAndrew

Marcos Fontana said:


> The cable and the plug are awesome.



Maybe they are but I bought plugs like that for 1$ and the cable for 2$. Seems overpriced to me is all


----------



## Willber

theresanarc said:


> Got my first PK shell earbud (ST-16 I think they're called, those cheap red ones). They sound a bit different from the others I have for sure, not better or worse yet


Do you mean the SR2 16ohm? If so, they require a lot of burn-in (100+ hours recommended by the seller). I noticed a big improvement after the first 50 hours then a gradual improvement thereafter.


----------



## wskl

AudioNoob said:


> Any sub $15 options on the neutral, perhaps detailed side with a good soundstage? I need something that has a thinner lip/edge or a greater distance between the stem and the lip, the mx500 style shells don't really fit me and hurt around the anti-tragus.





AudioNoob said:


> I asked earlier but is there a step up option in non mx500 shells? Up to 20 with mic and neutral/detailed preferred.



Not that many options to be honest with you but take a look at photos of the **** PT15, I think the stem may have enough distance so it does not interfere with your anti-tragus.  Even though it looks a bit bulky in the photos, when positioned in the ear it does feel a bit smaller than MX500 shell.  In terms of sound it should be suitable for you, it has neutral/bright tuning, the downside is that it is made of metal and has a bit of weight to it, I would not like to wear it for long listening sessions.


----------



## mbwilson111

DAndrew said:


> Maybe they are but I bought plugs like that for 1$ and the cable for 2$. Seems overpriced to me is all



I would love to find that cable to put on some of the buds my husband makes.  We have found nothing like that... for $2 or any price.   We look for cables that already have plugs and Y spitters on them already.    We usually have to buy a bag of 5 or 10 to get a decent price and it is still more than you said.

You can actually find plugs that are quite expensive.  You don't know what the bud builder had to pay for that.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

DAndrew said:


> For something thats not expensive you could try the EMX500


the tonality is different


----------



## AudioNoob

I guess I'll give monk lite a try. I just sent them an email suggesting they should sell their cables separately for recablers even if they only sell them with earbud orders


----------



## areek

DAndrew said:


> For something thats not expensive you could try the EMX500


EMX500 is supposed to be bright. I am quite treble sensitive.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

The EMX500 is a nice warm blanket with nice full bottom, lush mids and huge stage. Very nice bud. You maybe thinking of the EMX500S? 
Heres the one I got BTW. 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32759573651.html


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 22, 2019)

areek said:


> EMX500 is supposed to be bright. I am quite treble sensitive.



I have this one (in red)   Mine is quite bright and clear but is not lacking anything else.  I just got them out to refresh my memory (I have a few other buds).  Not sure I would call them a warm blanket but I do like them.  Not sure I would recommend for someone extremely sensitive to treble... it is impossible for me to know what you would think.    I think I am learning to like treble more than I originally did, but mids are most important to me.... vocals. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...Y-Earphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds/32887565850.html

When they arrived a few other things arrived at the same time and my husband had made a few buds for me so these never got much attention  So when I plugged them in just now I did the channel and phase test that I always do now when something new arrives.  Guess what!  Right and left are reversed... and I didn't know.  Luckily the shells are symmetrical so I just need to mark them correctly now.

I am enjoying the clarity and soundstage of these right now.  I think they are lively and energetic.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

mbwilson111 said:


> I have this one (in red)   Mine is quite bright and clear but is not lacking anything else.  I just got them out to refresh my memory (I have a few other buds).  Not sure I would call them a warm blanket but I do like them.  Not sure I would recommend for someone extremely sensitive to treble... it is impossible for me to know what you would think.    I think I am learning to like treble more than I originally did, but mids are most important to me.... vocals.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...Y-Earphone-HiFi-Bass-Earbuds/32887565850.html
> 
> ...



Hmm...I wonder about the different models of EMX500. Mine is definitely warm and lush. RY4S UE by comparison is much more bright then my EMX500. The only bud I have that I would describe as warmer then it would be the Sabia V6/VUNBUD whose treble is quite rolled off.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 22, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Hmm...I wonder about the different models of EMX500. Mine is definitely warm and lush. RY4S UE by comparison is much more bright then my EMX500. The only bud I have that I would describe as warmer then it would be the Sabia V6/VUNBUD whose treble is quite rolled off.



My husband made two different buds for me using EMX500 drivers.  He tuned one of them to have more bass than the other.  I actually bought the Bro because I wanted to compare his to a commercial one.  I chose this one for the color and cable combo.

I am thinking there is no one official version.  Warm is such a hard thing to define or agree on anyway.  If the music is relaxing, it is relaxing with these.  There is no way for us to truly understand what the other person is hearing.

Still listening with the EMX500 Bro and enjoying it with some instrumental music ... the House of Cards soundtrack. Excellent.

I really need to check out today's new arrivals.... I will leave the Bro to burn in at my desk.


----------



## areek

Any of the Faaeal Offerings that might be closer to the Vido tonality? I can run balanced as well. From what I have heard, the Snow lotus 1.0 balanced 2.5mm sounds the best, but am not sure which purchase link to follow.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 22, 2019)

areek said:


> Any of the Faaeal Offerings that might be closer to the Vido tonality? I can run balanced as well. From what I have heard, the Snow lotus 1.0 balanced 2.5mm sounds the best, but am not sure which purchase link to follow.



I have this one in the transparent with black cable but not with a balanced.  I did not know that was available with a balanced cable.  I do love the one I have.  Actually I have several Faaeals... all good.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIF...ic-Earphones-HIFI-Earbuds-DJ/32677773445.html

Oh I found the balanced version on the Faaeal store.  If the cable is the only difference I am not sure if I would get it but if balanced is important to you...

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...uds-For-MP3-Player-Amplifier/32889629399.html


----------



## BadReligionPunk

mbwilson111 said:


> My husband made two different buds for me using EMX500 drivers.  He tuned one of them to have more bass than the other.  I actually bought the Bro because I wanted to compare his to a commercial one.  Choose this one for the color and cable combo.
> 
> I am thinking there is no one official version.  Warm is such a hard thing to define or agree on anyway.  If the music is relaxing, it is relaxing with these.  There is no way for us to truly understand what the other person is hearing.
> 
> ...


Yup. What is neutral? What is warm? Mostly subjective. I really want to buy an EMX500 MMCX and see what effects different cables have on it. I will have to wait though. Bought to much on this sale already. Did pickup the Ry4s MMCX though.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

areek said:


> Any of the Faaeal Offerings that might be closer to the Vido tonality? I can run balanced as well. From what I have heard, the Snow lotus 1.0 balanced 2.5mm sounds the best, but am not sure which purchase link to follow.



I have FAAEAL Snow-lotus 1.0 Plus and would not recommend it. Maybe you should try Snow-lotus 2.0 or Rosemary 150 ohm. I heard that Willsound MK2 have a sound like Vido, but much better than Vido. Also you can try Seahf AWK-F150C. FENGRU DIY EMX500 you don't like, there sound like IEMs bass heavily hammer in the head, while Vido has air and deep bass.


----------



## cyh03176

areek said:


> EMX500 is supposed to be bright. I am quite treble sensitive.


Tested Rosemary today, it was a very dark earbud for me.


----------



## DAndrew

mbwilson111 said:


> I would love to find that cable to put on some of the buds my husband makes.  We have found nothing like that... for $2 or any price.   We look for cables that already have plugs and Y spitters on them already.    We usually have to buy a bag of 5 or 10 to get a decent price and it is still more than you said.
> 
> You can actually find plugs that are quite expensive.  You don't know what the bud builder had to pay for that.



Theres a supplier I talk to personally and get these prices, I gave away a cable like that to a friend, will try to ask for it and take a picture if you dont believe me. I truly doubt a chinese store on aliexpress would use original Oyaide plugs (the brand that the plug in the picture copies) and I have never ever seem them jump to more than 4$ unless its an obvious ripoff


----------



## DAndrew

Alex.Grimm said:


> the tonality is different



Whats the point in getting a new bud if you are looking to sound the same just more expensive? I just recommended something with similar strengths but slightly v-shaped


----------



## areek

Alex.Grimm said:


> I have FAAEAL Snow-lotus 1.0 Plus and would not recommend it. Maybe you should try Snow-lotus 2.0 or Rosemary 150 ohm. I heard that Willsound MK2 have a sound like Vido, but much better than Vido. Also you can try Seahf AWK-F150C. FENGRU DIY EMX500 you don't like, there sound like IEMs bass heavily hammer in the head, while Vido has air and deep bass.


I can not seem to purchase the will sound mk2 using a credit card. They want payment in PayPal which my country does not have. What is wrong with the snow lotus?
Also any other suggestions under 100$?



mbwilson111 said:


> I have this one in the transparent with black cable but not with a balanced.  I did not know that was available with a balanced cable.  I do love the one I have.  Actually I have several Faaeals... all good.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIF...ic-Earphones-HIFI-Earbuds-DJ/32677773445.html
> 
> ...


How would you describe the highs in your buds? 


cyh03176 said:


> Tested Rosemary today, it was a very dark earbud for me.


I don't like too much bass, just some oompf to get going. Smoothness is key. Any suggestions below 100 bucks?


----------



## DAndrew

areek said:


> EMX500 is supposed to be bright. I am quite treble sensitive.



It's v-shaped and tbh mine is not that bright. I cannot stand harsh highs either, I even sold my ZoomFred because the highs were slightly too bright.


----------



## DAndrew

areek said:


> I don't like too much bass, just some oompf to get going. Smoothness is key. Any suggestions below 100 bucks?



The only thing that comes to mind is Wong and his Blur earbuds, they seem to be what you are looking for. I owned one of his and didnt find something as smooth sounding and with better mids except the ZoomFred


----------



## mbwilson111

cyh03176 said:


> Tested Rosemary today, it was a very dark earbud for me.



It is darkish... I love it.  Maybe that is the one for @areek.  150 ohms ... needs a little power.  I just use a dap with good output.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 22, 2019)

areek said:


> Any suggestions below 100 bucks?


 
Just go ahead and get the Smabat ST-10 while the sale is on.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Sma...river-Smabat-Flagship-Earbud/32993154088.html


----------



## areek

mbwilson111 said:


> Just go ahead and get the Smabat ST-10 while the sale is on.


Is that smooth sounding with great mids?

Also, have you heard the Vido? If yes then how similar or different is the tonality of the smabat or the rosemary compared to the Vido?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 22, 2019)

areek said:


> Is that smooth sounding with great mids?
> 
> Also, have you heard the Vido? If yes then how similar or different is the tonality of the smabat or the rosemary compared to the Vido?



I have a recabled Vido.   I would have to spend many hours to answer all those questions and I am tired.  Plus I  had two new buds come today one of which I have not even listened to yet because I listened to that EMX500.   Also my ears get sore if I keep taking buds in and out.  I like to put in a pair and then just get lost in the music.  I don't really obsess over this stuff and I enjoy and appreciate many sound signatures.  I do expect singers that I like to sound how I have heard them in concert and I expect instruments to sound as they should.  A cello should sound like a cello.  

Speaking of which...




The Smabat sounds pretty much perfect for me.
Just do a search on each and read the headfi reviews.

You need to describe how you perceive the tonality of your Vido.  What kind of music do you listen to?


----------



## Willber

Alex.Grimm said:


> I have FAAEAL Snow-lotus 1.0 Plus and would not recommend it.


The SL 1.0 sounds different to the 1.0+. I prefer the 1.0.


----------



## cyh03176

mbwilson111 said:


> I have a recabled Vido.   I would have to spend many hours to answer all those questions and I am tired.  Plus I  had two new buds come today one of which I have not even listened to yet because I listened to that EMX500.   Also my ears get sore if I keep taking buds in and out.  I like to put in a pair and then just get lost in the music.  I don't really obsess over this stuff and I enjoy and appreciate many sound signatures.  I do expect singers that I like to sound how I have heard them in concert and I expect instruments to sound as the should.  A cello should sound like a cello.  Speaking of which...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




couldn't agree more. people needs to listen to concerts, live shows or just simply music instruments to know what's natural sound.


areek said:


> Is that smooth sounding with great mids?
> 
> Also, have you heard the Vido? If yes then how similar or different is the tonality of the smabat or the rosemary compared to the Vido?


if you want absolute sweet mids, get the fengru silver/tingo tg-38s, but of course it's a budget bud.

if you still want to think that vido is the best, just stick with it. plate the shells with 24k gold, put some swarovski crystals on it, and recable it to make it a $100 vido. oh wait, maybe not recabling, it might affects its sound signature.


----------



## mbwilson111

cyh03176 said:


> oh wait, maybe not recabling, it might affects its sound signature.



Plus those drivers are fragile.  Because of a recabling project my husband's Vido no longer has Vido drivers inside of it.  

My Vido has been successfully recabled because by then he had had tons of practice.


----------



## darmanastartes

areek said:


> Is that smooth sounding with great mids?
> 
> Also, have you heard the Vido? If yes then how similar or different is the tonality of the smabat or the rosemary compared to the Vido?



I would not describe the ST-10 as smooth, and the mids, while great, are not the emphasis.


----------



## mbwilson111

darmanastartes said:


> I would not describe the ST-10 as smooth, and the mids, while great, are not the emphasis.



Might just be how they fit me, but I really enjoy the mids and do not find them to be overshadowed by anything.   I honestly don't know what is meant by smooth.  My music sounds like my music...

BTW, I listen to FLAC either with my desktop setup or with one of my DAPS.  I have never listened with a smartphone.  Some of you know that I choose not to even own one.

Listening again at my desk with the EMX500 Bro.  Now that I am getting used to it, I am impressed.  The albums that I have been playing are not particularly bright.  There was some good drumming in some songs that sounded convincing.


----------



## MisterMudd

Alex.Grimm said:


> I have FAAEAL Snow-lotus 1.0 Plus and would not recommend it. Maybe you should try Snow-lotus 2.0 or Rosemary 150 ohm. I heard that Willsound MK2 have a sound like Vido, but much better than Vido. Also you can try Seahf AWK-F150C. FENGRU DIY EMX500 you don't like, there sound like IEMs bass heavily hammer in the head, while Vido has air and deep bass.


If I might ask, why do you not recommend SL 1.0+? I have it and highly recommend it. Thanks.


----------



## mbwilson111

MisterMudd said:


> If I might ask, why do you not recommend SL 1.0+? I have it and highly recommend it. Thanks.



I like mine too.  I like all my FAAEAls


----------



## Alex.Grimm

areek said:


> What is wrong with the snow lotus?





MisterMudd said:


> If I might ask, why do you not recommend SL 1.0+? I have it and highly recommend it. Thanks.



Sound muddy/unclear with metal music genres...


----------



## Bonzo78

Alex.Grimm said:


> Sound muddy/unclear with metal music genres...



IMHO Faaeal snow lotus+ and rosemary (300 ohm) are too dark and bass-shy. I have amped both of them but the Sq never satisfies me. I prefer emx500s and ty hiz.


----------



## cyh03176

Bonzo78 said:


> IMHO Faaeal snow lotus+ and rosemary (300 ohm) are too dark and bass-shy. I have amped both of them but the Sq never satisfies me. I prefer emx500s and ty hiz.


link to rosemary 300 ohm please. never seen that one before


----------



## mbwilson111

cyh03176 said:


> link to rosemary 300 ohm please. never seen that one before



Maybe they meant the Rosemary 150 ohm... that is what mine is.  I had not heard about a 300 ohm version but maybe there is?  We might be starting a rumor


----------



## cyh03176

mbwilson111 said:


> Maybe they meant the Rosemary 150 ohm... that is what mine is.  I had not heard about a 300 ohm version but maybe there is?  We might be starting a rumor


but rosemary 150 ohm is not bass shy


----------



## mbwilson111

cyh03176 said:


> but rosemary 150 ohm is not bass shy



I know but I think the MX500 shell fits me better than it does some people so I usually find that most buds have enough bass for me.  I always use full foams and for me that brings out the base.

I was doing some searches and I am pretty sure that there is only a 150 ohm version.  If Faaeal makes a 300ohm bud I would expect it to  have different name.


----------



## darmanastartes (Jun 22, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Might just be how they fit me, but I really enjoy the mids and do not find them to be overshadowed by anything.   I honestly don't know what is meant by smooth.  My music sounds like my music...
> 
> BTW, I listen to FLAC either with my desktop setup or with one of my DAPS.  I have never listened with a smartphone.  Some of you know that I choose not to even own one.
> 
> Listening again at my desk with the EMX500 Bro.  Now that I am getting used to it, I am impressed.  The albums that I have been playing are not particularly bright.  There was some good drumming in some songs that sounded convincing.


To my ears, the ST-10 has a very neutral midrange that is present without being emphasized. The things that stand out to me listening to them are the sub-bass extension and the detail retrieval.


----------



## Otto Motor

Sometime next week near the red mile?


----------



## SuperMAG

BadReligionPunk said:


> The EMX500 is a nice warm blanket with nice full bottom, lush mids and huge stage. Very nice bud. You maybe thinking of the EMX500S?
> Heres the one I got BTW.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32759573651.html



Any earbud with similar sound to emx500 which similar thick lush mids and bass and huge stage but much higher quality sound and resolution, separation etc. Under 55-80$. 

I heard so far penon bs1. What about the surprise 9.99$ one, is it similar.


----------



## Bonzo78

mbwilson111 said:


> I know but I think the MX500 shell fits me better than it does some people so I usually find that most buds have enough bass for me.  I always use full foams and for me that brings out the base.
> 
> I was doing some searches and I am pretty sure that there is only a 150 ohm version.  If Faaeal makes a 300ohm bud I would expect it to  have different name.



Sorry! My fault (it was too late here  !) I meant Narcissus 300 ohm.
Both Faaeal models I owned failed to impress me.
IRO bass, both the models I owned didn't have the quality and quantity of bass I'm searching of, even amped.

Maybe it's only me, but I really prefer EMX500S, TY HiZ 150, Vido.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

mbwilson111 said:


> Maybe they meant the Rosemary 150 ohm... that is what mine is.  I had not heard about a 300 ohm version but maybe there is?  We might be starting a rumor


FAAEAL Narcissus 300ohm


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 23, 2019)

SuperMAG said:


> Mmm i don't quite understand, ok how is the fullness of the sound, is it big or thin sound, are the voices thick and big or thin and sharp.
> 
> How is this compared to lemon bs1.


Lemon bs1? You mean like a defective unit or do you just dislike the bs1? (Also is it the official or experience version?).


cyh03176 said:


> decided to buy the to600 as it is $59.40 during the current promo on aliexpress. good choice? want to try high impedance earbud.
> 
> another issue, i need $65 only to take advantage of a further $6 discount coupon. any suggestion?
> 1. moondrop shiro-yuki (does it really have the "harman curve"?)
> ...


If it follows the harmann curve it will still obviously dip majorly in the sub bass region as is normal for earbuds. But if the rest is tuned to harmann levels that would be pretty nice.

The nicehck lucky bag is $9.99 maybe go with that?


----------



## cyh03176

seanc6441 said:


> If it follows the harmann curve it will still obviously dip majorly in the sub bass region as is normal for earbuds. But if the rest is tuned to harmann levels that would be pretty nice.
> 
> The nicehck lucky bag is $9.99 maybe go with that?



unfortunately. the store im buying from is not nicehck haha

anyway, that lucky bag was a compulsory buy so it goes without saying


----------



## GREQ

It's slightly off topic, and extremely 'nit-picky', but the Harman Target Curve is only an estimation based on current knowledge that is constantly being reviewed and is susceptible to future changes as technology and understanding of sound improves over the years.
So saying something has the 'harman curve' is something of a paradox, as it's not (and may never be) a fixed set of values.

**Pointless lesson over** carry on


----------



## DBaldock9

GREQ said:


> It's slightly off topic, and extremely 'nit-picky', but the Harman Target Curve is only an estimation based on current knowledge that is constantly being reviewed and is susceptible to future changes as technology and understanding of sound improves over the years.
> So saying something has the 'harman curve' is something of a paradox, as it's not (and may never be) a fixed set of values.
> 
> **Pointless lesson over** carry on



I can understand loudspeaker measurements, since you place it in a known acoustic space (either reflective or anechoic), place a calibrated measuring microphone at a known distance & axis direction, and use a test signal with a known voltage - but with the variability of ear sizes & shapes, and the variability of the seal between the earbud and ear (with, or without foams) - what sort of testing jig is being used to measure whether or not an earbud conforms to the Harman Curve?


----------



## seanc6441

GREQ said:


> It's slightly off topic, and extremely 'nit-picky', but the Harman Target Curve is only an estimation based on current knowledge that is constantly being reviewed and is susceptible to future changes as technology and understanding of sound improves over the years.
> So saying something has the 'harman curve' is something of a paradox, as it's not (and may never be) a fixed set of values.
> 
> **Pointless lesson over** carry on


I guess you could say the 'Harman 2019 target curve' to be more accurare?

How often do they revise the thing?


----------



## GREQ

seanc6441 said:


> I guess you could say the 'Harman 2019 target curve' to be more accurare?
> 
> How often do they revise the thing?


As far as I know it's only been majorly revised once, but I think it's wisest to consider it a 'work in progress' either way.
I really wouldn't expect it to succumb to periodical major revisions... the last thing everyone needs is a list of 'harman targets curves'


----------



## irv003

docomo


----------



## WoodyLuvr

irv003 said:


> docomo


DIY or... link?


----------



## irv003

WoodyLuvr said:


> DIY or... link?


DIY =)


----------



## cyh03176

aren't we all looking for our very own harman curve all the time? and we tend to switch favourite earbuds?


----------



## GREQ

cyh03176 said:


> aren't we all looking for our very own harman curve all the time? and we tend to switch favourite earbuds?


The Harman Target Curve is in it's simplest form, the average for perceived equal loudness of all frequencies, so I think switching favourites based on taste doesn't have anything to do with that, unless your goal is only to achieve just that.


----------



## cyh03176

GREQ said:


> The Harman Target Curve is in it's simplest form, the average for perceived equal loudness of all frequencies, so I think switching favourites based on taste doesn't have anything to do with that, unless your goal is only to achieve just that.


i wasn't really talking about harman target curve. more like <insert your name> target curve. equal loudness is a very subjective thing, what is equal to you is not equal to me.


----------



## GREQ

cyh03176 said:


> i wasn't really talking about harman target curve. more like <insert your name> target curve. equal loudness is a very subjective thing, what is equal to you is not equal to me.


Oh well when you put it that way... uhm... also no?  
Just speaking for myself I like a variety of differently tuned headphones/buds etc.


----------



## SuperMAG

seanc6441 said:


> Lemon bs1? You mean like a defective unit or do you just dislike the bs1? (Also is it the official or experience version?).
> 
> If it follows the harmann curve it will still obviously dip majorly in the sub bass region as is normal for earbuds. But if the rest is tuned to harmann levels that would be pretty nice.
> 
> The nicehck lucky bag is $9.99 maybe go with that?



Penon bs1. I read reviews that it's close to what i i want but it's too expensive. I want similar but higher quality sound of the emx500,bs1 but under 70$ or close


----------



## ShabtabQ

Where can I get 15.4mm drivers? My RY4S UE is broken I'm thinking of buying the drivers and replacing them, but I have no idea about DIY drivers and stuff, thought someone may guide me thru.


----------



## mbwilson111

ShabtabQ said:


> Where can I get 15.4mm drivers? My RY4S UE is broken I'm thinking of buying the drivers and replacing them, but I have no idea about DIY drivers and stuff, thought someone may guide me thru.




Go to  Chitty's  Store on ali .  The seller is very helpful.  That is where all our drivers have come from.

Same seller as this bud


*https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY...hms-150ohms-transparent-film/32801890526.html*


----------



## DBaldock9

mbwilson111 said:


> Go to  Chitty's  Store on ali .  The seller is very helpful.  That is where all our drivers have come from.
> 
> Same seller as this bud
> 
> ...



I usually buy parts from Chitty's, DIY Earphone Tribe, or Yuming on AliExpress.


----------



## waynes world

GREQ said:


> Just speaking for myself I like a variety of differently tuned headphones/buds etc.



That is my curse as well


----------



## letlive

Any recommendations for a good MMCX balanced (2,5mm) cable?


----------



## subwoof3r

letlive said:


> Any recommendations for a good MMCX balanced (2,5mm) cable?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low-end-cheap-generic-otherwise-bang-for-buck-cable-thread.891911/


----------



## HungryPanda

waynes world said:


> That is my curse as well


 Variety is the spice of life


----------



## ClieOS

True wireless earbud


----------



## Jsingh4

ClieOS said:


> True wireless earbud


But can they drive them


----------



## assassin10000 (Jan 9, 2020)

Jsingh4 said:


> But can they drive them



I've been using the bt20 on them as well. Works fine.

Also worked on my ACG & EBX (and pt25 when I still had them).



Spoiler


----------



## Willber (Jun 26, 2019)

My lucky bag is in the country! The race is on...


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> My luck bag is in the country! The race is on...



Ours arrived at our home yesterday.  Had a nice listen last night.  We are both happy


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> Ours arrived at our home yesterday.  Had a nice listen last night.  We are both happy


That's good to hear.
(Pun intended. )


----------



## WoodyLuvr

mbwilson111 said:


> Ours arrived at our home yesterday.  Had a nice listen last night.  We are both happy


Mine is clearing customs... maybe tomorrow or the next day.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

FENGRU DIY Tingo TC200 why is it called FENGRU Silver because of the color? Or is this the official name?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 26, 2019)

Alex.Grimm said:


> FENGRU DIY Tingo TC200 why is it called FENGRU Silver because of the color? Or is this the official name?



I think some of us in here just called it that because at least one seller did not really have a model number for it .  The shiny silver identified it.


----------



## cyh03176

**** KP110.. new earbuds?

14.8mm DLC diaphragm with dual N55 magnets and design similar to JVC Victor HA-FW10000


----------



## HungryPanda

Brave design


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 15, 2021)

cyh03176 said:


> Crystalcore Audio Kryptonite 150Ω - which colour are you getting?





Jsingh4 said:


> Guys Any idea how do Crystalcore Audio buds sound?
> They look so rad. I am thinking of getting this one in 150ohms





Jsingh4 said:


> Did you receive em yet?


*CC (Crystalcore Audio) Kryptonite150 (150Ω); 2.5TRRS Balanced; No. 27/30*
My Thai custom-made earbuds were received today! Listened to 'em for about six hours now. Very pleased; comfortable, non-fatiguing with a very ear friendly signature thus far . Definitely am liking the smaller custom Yuin PK type shells... much better fit in my small ears than my MX500 shelled *Blur* (still love my Blurs though). The low end is much improved due to a tighter fit and those interesting signature bass ports exiting the sides of the shells. As confirmed by Crystalcore Audio the Kryptonite's 150Ω driver sensitivity (dB SPL) is around 95 to 98 dB/mW which I believe is correct as they are nearly as difficult to drive as my Puresounds PS100-600S "Pop" (600Ω) earbuds which are at 93 dB/mW. I am using a FiiO L26 3.5mm male to 2.5mm Female Balanced Adapter (see pic down below).

*16 MAY 2021 (Update)* - These lightweight custom earbuds were specifically designed for the wear & tear of heavy mobile audiophile use and indeed they have proven to be absolute beasts. Still going strong!



 





Spoiler: More headPORN
























Via *Meizu HiFi DAC HeadAMP PRO* + *ddHiFi DD DJ35A Adapter*


----------



## cyh03176

WoodyLuvr said:


> Earbuds received today! Listened to 'em for about six hours now. Very pleased; comfortable, non-fatiguing with a very ear friendly signature thus far . Definitely am liking the smaller shell type... much better fit in my small ears than my MX500 shelled Blur. The low end is much improved due to a tighter fit and those interesting Crystalcore Audio signature bass ports.


that colour! they look so nice!


----------



## mbwilson111

WoodyLuvr said:


> Earbuds received today! Listened to 'em for about six hours now. Very pleased; comfortable, non-fatiguing with a very ear friendly signature thus far . Definitely am liking the smaller shell type... much better fit in my small ears than my MX500 shelled Blur. The low end is much improved due to a tighter fit and those interesting Crystalcore Audio signature bass ports.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Those look really nice.  Very happy that you are pleased with them.


----------



## snip3r77

mbwilson111 said:


> Ours arrived at our home yesterday.  Had a nice listen last night.  We are both happy


Hope it’s better than Ry4s UE


----------



## HungryPanda

ME80 has better soundstage and low end than RY4S UE


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 26, 2019)

snip3r77 said:


> Hope it’s better than Ry4s UE



I like my RY4S UI and will be receiving an RY4S MMCX Plus soon and my husband is getting the RY4S 300ohm.  The balanced cables for them arrived today so we are ready.

I also am one of the few people in here to give the RY04 a chance and find it to be a very balanced and relaxed listen. Beautiful.  Oh and I don't want to forget the RY4C.  I like that one too.  Very comfortable shell.

This lucky bag bud that I was talking about earlier has nothing to do with RY4S.



Spoiler: lucky bag bud



It is the NiceHCK ME80 and is not in an MX500 shell.



@snip3r77 I was just looking at your list to see what you do like.  Is it up to date?  I don't even see any buds listed.  You have asked about so many different ones that I thought by now you would have several.


----------



## snip3r77

mbwilson111 said:


> I like my RY4S UI and will be receiving an RY4S MMCX Plus soon and my husband is getting the RY4S 300ohm.  The balanced cables for them arrived today so we are ready.
> 
> I also am one of the few people in here to give the RY04 a chance and find it to be a very balanced and relaxed listen. Beautiful.  Oh and I don't want to forget the RY4C.  I like that one too.  Very comfortable shell.
> 
> ...



Yeah I have quite a bit
Vido 
Ry4s ue 
**** pt15
Wilson MK1 / MK3
Qian69 
Snow lotus 1.0 plus 

I love all of them. The least is qian69.


----------



## mbwilson111

snip3r77 said:


> Yeah I have quite a bit
> Vido
> Ry4s ue
> **** pt15
> ...



Nice.  Time to update the list


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 26, 2019)

Lol what even is that design on the new **** earbud. Surely that thing would stick out of your ear too much to stay put with a cable attached...

Seems like wearing this looped over ear is a must. I guess the design is for tuning and not aesthetics/practicality. Might sound great but it sure does look funny!


----------



## cyh03176

seanc6441 said:


> Lol what even is that design on the new **** earbud. Surely that thing would stick out of your ear too much to stay put with a cable attached...
> 
> Seems like wearing this looped over ear is a must. I guess the design is for tuning and not aesthetics/practicality. Might sound great but it sure does look funny!



like i said, they copied jvc fw10000


----------



## cyh03176

did a little bit of research, jvc did that design because their engineers wanted to focus on the sound when designing the chambers and didn't want to bother with where to put the mmcx plug, that's why they design the mmcx plug to be separated from the housing. so jvc actually had a purpose for that design


----------



## chinmie

HungryPanda said:


> ME80 has better soundstage and low end than RY4S UE



can't wait for mine to arrive. but looks it won't arrive before my vacation, so sadly can't bring it along on the trip



mbwilson111 said:


> Nice.  Time to update the list



I'm proud to say my list is currently up to date


----------



## seanc6441

cyh03176 said:


> did a little bit of research, jvc did that design because their engineers wanted to focus on the sound when designing the chambers and didn't want to bother with where to put the mmcx plug, that's why they design the mmcx plug to be separated from the housing. so jvc actually had a purpose for that design


It works better on IEMs because they insert deeper and are physically smaller. Also the fit is more secure so you don't have to worry about weight distribution as much.

Not sure I agree with that design for earbuds but i guess until someone tries the finished product we won't know how it works in practice.


----------



## Willber

Alex.Grimm said:


> FENGRU DIY Tingo TC200 why is it called FENGRU Silver because of the color? Or is this the official name?


Here is a list of posts that might explain the name:

https://www.head-fi.org/search/31516515/?q=fengru+silver&t=post&o=date&c[node]=103


----------



## seanc6441

By the way, anyone who is still looking at storage options for earbuds and related parts/accessories. I found this to be a perfect solution for my needs:

IKEA SKÅDIS


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Check out *this earbud foam poll*


----------



## snip3r77

snip3r77 said:


> Yeah I have quite a bit
> Vido
> Ry4s ue
> **** pt15
> ...


Seems like me80 has arrived


----------



## waynes world

Alex.Grimm said:


> FENGRU DIY Tingo TC200 why is it called FENGRU Silver because of the color? Or is this the official name?



For me, "Silver" is way easier to remember lol

But, their sound is "golden" 

Seriously though, I haven't compared to any other buds, and my ears are quite easy to please, but they do sound very good to me, and are great for the price. Plus, the color is nice and unique, and I quite like the cable as well.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Earbud - *Linsoul DTM A8 MMCX* 

Cable - *Tripowin C8 Silver Copper Foil Mixed Braided 2.5mm Balanced*

Got a chance to try out these review units and take a few photos.

The Yuin type style shells of the Linsoul DTM A8 are very unassuming at first glance. Though they are nicely put together with the MMCX connector. 

The Tripowin C8 Silver Copper Foil Mixed Braided 2.5mm Balanced Cable is a thing of beauty. I did my best to take as good as possible pictures, but even that does not do these justice. They come in many types of terminals, for different connections. When in use, they bring a whiff of warmth to the overall sound signature. I do wish these had the straight connection and not over the ear, as for use with the PK1 shell, it does not work as well than it would with something like the Svara - L / SMABAT ST-10 earbud which have the MMCX connection on top. 

When these two meet, they come together to produce a extremely smooth and vocally biased sound. Bass is present, but limited. Mids are forward and excel in delivery. Highs are rolled off a touch early, but with just enough detail left behind to round out the overall signature. 

I will say on its own, the Linsoul DTM A8 is versatile on its signature depending on what MMCX cable used and what type of foam cover is worn. Personally, for me, I use the airy VE Foams (not shown), to let the optimal amount of sound pass through, while still providing good comfort.

Final thoughts are that maybe this pairing is not made in heaven, but the Linsoul DTM A8 Earbud does play nice with many types of cables and the Tripowin C8 Silver Copper Foil Mixed Braided 2.5mm Balanced Cable would be a wonderful pairing for Earbuds/Earphones that could use a touch of warmth.
















































--


----------



## HungryPanda

I have been enjoying both the Linsoul DTM A8 and DTM PK1 quite a lot recently


----------



## chinmie

BloodyPenguin said:


> Earbud - *Linsoul DTM A8 MMCX*
> 
> Cable - *Tripowin C8 Silver Copper Foil Mixed Braided 2.5mm Balanced*
> 
> ...




you could peel away that ear guide tubing, so you can use it under ears


----------



## theresanarc

Which foams do I use if I wanna make my music sound more clear/forward sounding with an emphasis on the vocals? Earbuds I mainly use are the Qian39s, Edifier H180s, and DIY PK2 SR2 in 16 ohms.


----------



## golov17

@ClieOS Do you know how high impedance Simphonio D3 is rated?


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> @ClieOS Do you know how high impedance Simphonio D3 is rated?



I believe it is 150ohm impedance and 118dB sensitivity.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 26, 2019)

theresanarc said:


> Which foams do I use if I wanna make my music sound more clear/forward sounding with an emphasis on the vocals? Earbuds I mainly use are the Qian39s, Edifier H180s, and DIY PK2 SR2 in 16 ohms.


In this order:

- Original VE thin foam (aka monk plus stock thin foam)
- Aliexpress thin foam.
- New VE thin foam.

If the earbud cover has opening in the middle you can try donut foams, but most earbuds have openings around the edge, so the thin foams would bring vocals forward as the mids/highs are less dampened.

Sadly the original monk thin foams are difficult to obtain now, as VE has moved to a newer (And lesser in my opinion) foam production type that's slightly thicker and sounds a bit off.

The original thins are almost acoustically transparent sounding, the aliexpress thin foams are about 90% transparent sounding, good for taming treble slightly but offer slightly less absolute clarity.


----------



## waynes world

Happy! Finally snagged the Sabia V6 mmcx's. Happy days


----------



## irv003

BloodyPenguin said:


> Earbud - *Linsoul DTM A8 MMCX*
> 
> Cable - *Tripowin C8 Silver Copper Foil Mixed Braided 2.5mm Balanced*
> 
> ...


nice! yuin type shell but driver is using metal grills


----------



## cyh03176 (Jun 27, 2019)

got my me80, finally. a bit disappointed though. the bass is a little light for my liking (using stock grey foams). hopefully the bass will gets better after burn in. everything else is good, especially for the build quality


----------



## Wil

Got a Auglamour RX-1 for office use. 

Running it off a Cayin N6ii. 

Pretty impressed - balanced is the word. The mids are especially sweet. Perfect for office use!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 9, 2021)

wskl said:


> Another Fukubukuro Lucky Bag from NiceHCK
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...9-9-Limited-Quantity/1825606_33041694447.html





ClieOS said:


> I have promised not to divulge anything at this point, but I think it is safe to say none of you will regret getting this lucky bag deal.





chinmie said:


> can't wait for mine to arrive. but looks it won't arrive before my vacation, so sadly can't bring it along on the trip





cyh03176 said:


> got my me80, finally. a bit disappointed though. the bass is a little light for my liking (using stock grey foams). hopefully the bass will gets better after burn in. everything else is good, especially for the build quality


My ME80s from NICEHCK have too arrived! Comfortable, smaller than my MX500 shelled Blurs. Ever so slightly brighter than my Blurs and new Crystalcores. I am not finding the bass to be that light though (especially for a sub $10 ear bud) but that may be due to my using a headphone amp perhaps? The bass is there and actually quite detailed (again for a $10 ear bud)... the bass is just slightly softer in volume than my Blurs and definitely not as prominent (deep and impactful) as my new Kryptonites but that may be due to a much better seal/fit of course. Very well made ear buds as @cyh03176 has stated with an interesting cable which is light, soft, and rather supple.






Spoiler: More earbud porn


----------



## cyh03176 (Jun 27, 2019)

WoodyLuvr said:


> My ME80s from NICEHCK have too arrived! Comfortable, smaller than my MX500 shelled Blurs. Ever so slightly brighter than my Blurs and new Crystalcores. I am not finding the bass to be that light though (especially for a sub $10 ear bud) but that may be due to my using a headphone amp perhaps? The bass is there and actually quite detailed (again for a $10 ear bud)... the bass is just slightly softer in volume than my Blurs and definitely not as prominent (deep and impactful) as my new Kryptonites but that may be due to a much better seal/fit of course. Very well made ear buds as @cyh03176 has stated with an interesting cable which is light, soft, and rather supple.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


haha don't get me wrong, the bass is definitely there but.. not as engaging.. it just can't get me to stand up and dance to the my favourite tune (don't judge me!) i am driving it with bravo ocean.

just too bad really. only if it has a tad more low end and it will be the perfect earbuds for me. everything else is so nice!


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 27, 2019)

cyh03176 said:


> haha don't get me wrong, the bass is definitely there but.. not as engaging.. it just can't get me to stand up and dance to the my favourite tune (don't judge me!) i am driving it with bravo ocean.
> 
> just too bad really. only if it has a tad more low end and it will be the perfect earbuds for me. everything else is so nice!



I wonder if I am somehow getting a better fit even thought it is almost too big for me... just almost.  I too am using the stock grey foams.

The first thing I noticed was how great the bass is.  I think this one will have very divided opinions depending on the fit.

edit:
@cyh03176    If yours is slightly loose you could try a donut over the foam.  I would not have room in MY ear to do that.


----------



## cyh03176

mbwilson111 said:


> I wonder if I am somehow getting a better fit even thought it is almost too big for me... just almost.  I too am using the stock grey foams.
> 
> The first thing I noticed was how great the bass is.  I think this one will have very divided opinions depending on the fit.
> 
> ...


it might be the fit, but i can shake my head no problem, i also tried different position. still the same. i wonder if you have access to tingo tg-38s or the fengru silver, that's what i consider as enough bass and me80 is having lesser bass than that. me80 bass is punchy but not enough body for me.


----------



## HungryPanda

The Fengru Silver is tuned to the low end so bass is plentiful but obscures the mids a bit because of it, the ME80 is more balanced overall with a larger soundstage. it has enough bass for me and I prefer the overall sound.


----------



## cyh03176

HungryPanda said:


> The Fengru Silver is tuned to the low end so bass is plentiful but obscures the mids a bit because of it, the ME80 is more balanced overall with a larger soundstage. it has enough bass for me and I prefer the overall sound.


so it is not the problem of fitment. thanks for the comparison!


----------



## Alex.Grimm

What's better Fengru Silver(tingo tg-38s) or Fengru Silver(tingo tc200) ?


----------



## cyh03176

Alex.Grimm said:


> What's better Fengru Silver(tingo tg-38s) or Fengru Silver(tingo tc200) ?


TG-38S https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...4HBVfAJ&id=21425919834&ns=1&abbucket=2#detail
TC200 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...4HBVfAJ&id=42450601504&ns=1&abbucket=2#detail

both link taken from tingo official taobao store


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 27, 2019)

Well that was fun while it lasted... my wife has already strong-armed and stolen the ME80s from me  my fault completely though as I did leave them laying out all nice and sparkly at the end of the bar by my computer station where I spend most of my time. I'll surely never see them again... just like my beloved JVC HA-FX750 "_Woody_" IEMs and B&O H6 v1 (34Ω) headphones both of which were unlawfully acquired by my daughter who still refuses to relinquish them.


----------



## cyh03176

WoodyLuvr said:


> Well that was fun while it lasted... my wife has already strong-armed and stolen the ME80s from me  my fault completely though as I did leave them laying out all nice and sparkly at the end of the bar by my computer station where I spend most of my time. I'll surely never see them again... just like my beloved JVC HA-FX750 "_Woody_" IEMs and B&O H6 v1 (34Ω) headphones both of which were unlawfully acquired by my daughter who still refuses to relinquish them.


at least your wife isn't nagging you for buying more earbuds than "necessary"


----------



## WoodyLuvr

What is the hardest to drive earbud out there now?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

cyh03176 said:


> TG-38S https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...4HBVfAJ&id=21425919834&ns=1&abbucket=2#detail
> TC200 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...4HBVfAJ&id=42450601504&ns=1&abbucket=2#detail
> 
> both link taken from tingo official taobao store



on Aliexpress Tingo TC200 https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/32687542028.html have another shell looks like TG-38S on Taobao


----------



## HungryPanda

WoodyLuvr said:


> Well that was fun while it lasted... my wife has already strong-armed and stolen the ME80s from me  my fault completely though as I did leave them laying out all nice and sparkly at the end of the bar by my computer station where I spend most of my time. I'll surely never see them again... just like my beloved JVC HA-FX750 "_Woody_" IEMs and B&O H6 v1 (34Ω) headphones both of which were unlawfully acquired by my daughter who still refuses to relinquish them.


It is a hard life with women around


----------



## HungryPanda

My hardest to drive earbud I have is K's K600


----------



## mbwilson111

WoodyLuvr said:


> Well that was fun while it lasted... my wife has already strong-armed and stolen the ME80s from me  my fault completely though as I did leave them laying out all nice and sparkly at the end of the bar by my computer station where I spend most of my time. I'll surely never see them again... just like my beloved JVC HA-FX750 "_Woody_" IEMs and B&O H6 v1 (34Ω) headphones both of which were unlawfully acquired by my daughter who still refuses to relinquish them.




You should have bought two lucky bags like MY husband did


----------



## WoodyLuvr

HungryPanda said:


> My hardest to drive earbud I have is K's K600


As in these from NiceHCK? https://th.aliexpress.com/item/32824145371.html


----------



## HungryPanda

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32824145371.html    these are the ones and they are great


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 27, 2019)

cyh03176 said:


> haha don't get me wrong, the bass is definitely there but.. not as engaging.. it just can't get me to stand up and dance to the my favourite tune (don't judge me!) i am driving it with bravo ocean.
> 
> just too bad really. only if it has a tad more low end and it will be the perfect earbuds for me. everything else is so nice!


You could always bump it with some EQ if you're willing. But I understand what you mean, I'm not a basshead but bass light earbuds make me sad. It's difficult to enjoy music without some authority in the bass (and the low mids too).


WoodyLuvr said:


> What is the hardest to drive earbud out there now?


For me, Toneking TO600 probably. Although I've yet to come across an earbud that is truly hard to drive.



HungryPanda said:


> It is a hard life with women around


I see what you did there ;D


----------



## WoodyLuvr

seanc6441 said:


> Although I've yet to come across an earbud that is truly hard to drive.


Gotcha... probably should have reworded it to: "Which earbud sounds the best amp'd" or something along that lines.


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> I'm not a basshead but bass light earbuds make me sad. It's difficult to enjoy music without some authority in the bass (and the low mids too).




I would not call the ME80 bass light.  Music is very enjoyable.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

mbwilson111 said:


> I would not call the ME80 bass light.  Music is very enjoyable.



Sounds better than RY4S UE?


----------



## cyh03176

seanc6441 said:


> You could always bump it with some EQ if you're willing. But I understand what you mean, I'm not a basshead but bass light earbuds make me sad. It's difficult to enjoy music without some authority in the bass (and the low mids too).


i prefer not to mess with eq.. haha i think you also bought me80? lets see what you think about them.


----------



## Wil

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...89&spm=2114.12010612.8148356.2.1bd774feXWybzi

Anyone tried these yet? Looks interesting.


----------



## seanc6441

cyh03176 said:


> i prefer not to mess with eq.. haha i think you also bought me80? lets see what you think about them.


Nope, I almost clicked buy a few days ago but I got distracted and so I haven't actually bought 'em.

I think I'll pass, doesn't sound like something I'd prefer and I have plenty of earbuds to keep me occupied for now 



WoodyLuvr said:


> Gotcha... probably should have reworded it to: "Which earbud sounds the best amp'd" or something along that lines.


A few of the diy drivers are 400,600 and possibly even higher ohm. Might play well with your desk amps.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 27, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> Nope, I almost clicked buy a few days ago but I got distracted and so I haven't actually bought 'em.
> 
> I think I'll pass, doesn't sound like something I'd prefer and I have plenty of earbuds to keep me occupied for now



Anyway, you missed the Fukubukuro (lucky bag) price of $9.90.  It is now at its regular price of $21.24.  I am sure there will be sale prices in the future but he never goes as low again as the Fukubukuro price.   That is the reward for being willing to jump on a new unknown mystery product.   This time the mystery kind of got ruined by spoilers though.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33041694447.html


----------



## cyh03176

mbwilson111 said:


> Anyway, you missed the Fukubukuro (lucky bag) prince of $9.90.  It is now at its regular price of $21.24.  I am sure there will be sale prices in the future but he never goes as low again as the Fukubukuro price.   That is the reward for being willing to jump on a new unknown mystery product.   This time the mystery kind of got ruined by spoilers though.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33041694447.html


wow, didn't expect that. it was RMB69 in taobao and then increased to RMB79 and now it is still RMB79. didn't expect the price in aliexpress to increase so much, i thought it would increase for like USD2.

anyway, after burning in for 6 hours, the bass starts to come out but the still lacks some subbass, hope it gets better (for me)!


----------



## FastAndClean

i just got the st 10 and that thing is amazing, very clean with snappy bass


----------



## FastAndClean

man that thing has real sub bass, it is lower in level that the rest of the FR but it digs deep, and the bass is clean, is not a blob like some cheap earbuds, i have little experience with earbuds (i have ACG and like them very much) but the ST10 is very complete sounding, the ACG is great but it cuts off under like 100Hz or something, not the ST10,  who needs full size open back headphones anyway


----------



## seanc6441

FastAndClean said:


> man that thing has real sub bass, it is lower in level that the rest of the FR but it digs deep, and the bass is clean, is not a blob like some cheap earbuds, i have little experience with earbuds (i have ACG and like them very much) but the ST10 is very complete sounding, the ACG is great but it cuts off under like 100Hz or something, not the ST10,  who needs full size open back headphones anyway


Coming from the ACG (if it's anything like the Ourart TI7) I can imagine it's night and day difference between that and the ST-10.

There are other earbuds with quality bass and good authority for the form factor you just have to find the right ones 

Check out the kube V1 for instance. It's cheap and has a nice deep bass. It's probably not as tight as the ST-10 but it has a very rounded full quality to it. It's also only about $15 to purchase so that's a plus.


----------



## FastAndClean

seanc6441 said:


> Coming from the ACG (if it's anything like the Ourart TI7) I can imagine it's night and day difference between that and the ST-10.
> 
> There are other earbuds with quality bass and good authority for the form factor you just have to find the right ones
> 
> Check out the kube V1 for instance. It's cheap and has a nice deep bass. It's probably not as tight as the ST-10 but it has a very rounded full quality to it. It's also only about $15 to purchase so that's a plus.


big difference yes, the problem is that i like ST10 more than some of my in ear headphones, it is very open and so easy to use, no tips, they just sit there, i am wearing them cable down, was not able to get consistent sound over the ear, i have to stop buying stuff bro, it is crazy in here, ba s, hybrids, pure dynamics are coming tomorrow, crazy hobby


----------



## FastAndClean

@seanc6441 the ST10 is fast, on complex tracks keeps the separation under control, very impressive, i just made a test with


----------



## HungryPanda

Listening to my Svara-L don't need a Smabat, don't need a Smabat..........


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> Listening to my Svara-L don't need a Smabat, don't need a Smabat..........



You don't .. you can borrow mine (but only at home).


----------



## HungryPanda

I honestly think Svara- L owners do not need to


----------



## mbwilson111

FastAndClean said:


> @seanc6441 the ST10 is fast, on complex tracks keeps the separation under control, very impressive, i just made a test with




I like this track.  I happen to be wearing headphones at my desk right now though. Sounds good.

Some days I just can't take things in and out of my ears... buds or iems.

I do want to listen to an album with the ME80 tonight.


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> I honestly think Svara- L owners do not need to



You said that before, but then you said this:



HungryPanda said:


> I enjoyed listening to the Smabat ST-10 and I was rather surprised how much better it sounded than my Svara-L's. Bass was tighter and more impactful, mids were fine and treble came through clear. Full foams were on them while I listened. I played some vocal jazz, blues rock and some modern pop.



I'm so confused!


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Nope, I almost clicked buy a few days ago but I got distracted and so I haven't actually bought 'em.
> 
> I think I'll pass, doesn't sound like something I'd prefer and I have plenty of earbuds to keep me occupied for now
> 
> ...



i didn't jump on the last fukubukuro (the EB2), and when it was revealed, it didn't appeal to me cosmetically. sound wise can't tell, because i haven't got the chance to test it yet..but I'm still content because i think i have quite a solid collection of sound already.

this fukubukuro, i also initially don't want to participate.. then someone posted the reveal picture.. and i immediately click buy  
the looks got me. i hope the sound would suit me


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Got the *Sabbat X12 Pro* today.

For a wireless earbud, I think they sound decent enough hooked up to my LG V30+.

I could NOT get them to fit in stock form. I had to use the included rubber guides and my own foam covers.

I only made one call, it was to my wife. She said she could hear me just fine, but I do talk very loud.  Other users say sometimes callers can not hear them well.

This was just a Father's Day present to myself, for the $33USD I paid, this is about as good as a wireless earbud can get right now.  I look forward to seeing more models in the future.


These come in a TON of designs.  Mine is called "C5 Dancer", with subtle coloring.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 27, 2019)

chinmie said:


> i didn't jump on the last fukubukuro (the EB2), and when it was revealed, it didn't appeal to me cosmetically. sound wise can't tell, because i haven't got the chance to test it yet..but I'm still content because i think i have quite a solid collection of sound already.
> 
> this fukubukuro, i also initially don't want to participate.. then someone posted the reveal picture.. and i immediately click buy
> the looks got me. i hope the sound would suit me


Thing is I don't really wanna keep buying into hype as every new earbud gets hyped a lot (it's just human nature to find a new sound more exciting) so I decided to wait awhile.

Obviously I'll buy more stuff down the line but it's nice to show restraint from time to time.

Also without disrespect there have been a few earbuds I purchased in the last year that were recommended by certain individuals as great buys but my own impressions were not as favourable. That's why I learned to wait until I see multiple impressions now to see what all our different ears hear as we have different ideas of what's 'balanced' sounding or what we prefer 

I probably put more priority on bass quality/impact and the low mids-vocal range tonality than some others would in here so I always ask about that first now as some previous earbuds I bought recently feel short in that regard.

And as I've learned from your posts you put focus on a more linear/neutral mid bass and refinement of the treble


----------



## darmanastartes

Jim is sending me a pair of ME80s for review. I'm hoping I like them, but considering they were supposedly tuned by the same guy who did the EB2 I'm not getting my hopes up.


----------



## seanc6441

darmanastartes said:


> Jim is sending me a pair of ME80s for review. I'm hoping I like them, but considering they were supposedly tuned by the same guy who did the EB2 I'm not getting my hopes up.


yeah eb2 was a weird one for me too. Good clarity in the upper mids and wide staging, but I did not like its tonal balance in the mids-highs or its flabby bass.


----------



## cyh03176

10hrs in.. ME80 is a pair of excellent earbuds. Bass is definitely getting more "authority"


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Thing is I don't really wanna keep buying into hype as every new earbud gets hyped a lot (it's just human nature to find a new sound more exciting) so I decided to wait awhile.
> 
> Obviously I'll buy more stuff down the line but it's nice to show restraint from time to time.
> 
> ...



yup. if only for sound, i really don't need anything else right now, as like i said, i already have a solid team of earbuds, each with it's own specialty sound and purposes. i bought the lucky bag because it looks good and the "why not" price 

if i don't like it, i figure it would be a great gift for my nephews. 

the Datura X is a nice example of this:great looking, nicely packaged, and good sound. i like it, but because it doesn't get enough playtime, i gave it to a happy family member


----------



## cyh03176

they say curiosity killed the cat, but my curiosity killed my bank account


----------



## snip3r77

cyh03176 said:


> 10hrs in.. ME80 is a pair of excellent earbuds. Bass is definitely getting more "authority"


I’m Glad that I bought it. It’s $16 now. 
Apparently they sold close to 700pcs over the weekend.


----------



## cyh03176

snip3r77 said:


> I’m Glad that I bought it. It’s $16 now.
> Apparently they sold close to 700pcs over the weekend.


14 hrs in now, the bass keeps getting better. 
i can now stop the burn in process and enjoy listening to music with these


----------



## HungryPanda

The Svara-L v Smabat ST10 is pointless now as Svara-L is discontinued


----------



## snip3r77

cyh03176 said:


> 14 hrs in now, the bass keeps getting better.
> i can now stop the burn in process and enjoy listening to music with these



I'd just listen as per normal. 8 hours/ day .


----------



## cyh03176

snip3r77 said:


> I'd just listen as per normal. 8 hours/ day .


nope the bass was so light i just couldn't listen to it


----------



## mbwilson111

cyh03176 said:


> nope the bass was so light i just couldn't listen to it



I don't think I even heard my ME80 out of the box.  I  just put foams on it, plugged it into a good dap, set a volume level and left it playing for the rest of the day as I was busy with other things.  I do this a lot.  I rarely know or care if they change.  I just do it

Later when I listened I just knew it was good.


----------



## snip3r77

✨✨Now the price is US $13.99 ,Come to Buy it soon for the nicehck me80

This is original luck bag in the Mid-Year sale.


----------



## cyh03176

mbwilson111 said:


> I wonder if I am somehow getting a better fit even thought it is almost too big for me... just almost.  I too am using the stock grey foams.
> 
> The first thing I noticed was how great the bass is.  I think this one will have very divided opinions depending on the fit.
> 
> ...





mbwilson111 said:


> I don't think I even heard my ME80 out of the box.  I  just put foams on it, plugged it into a good dap, set a volume level and left it playing for the rest of the day as I was busy with other things.  I do this a lot.  I rarely know or care if they change.  I just do it
> 
> Later when I listened I just knew it was good.



so that's why "The first thing I noticed was how great the bass is" lol. i really wonder if it is my unit but the bass is really good now.


----------



## mbwilson111

cyh03176 said:


> so that's why "The first thing I noticed was how great the bass is" lol. i really wonder if it is my unit but the bass is really good now.




When I said that, I had no idea there may have been a change.  I usually am unaware.

... and it is still playing during the times I am not using it (with a few short breaks).  So, three days now...

This is what I do with most new things.


----------



## Jsingh4

Does anybody know the the driver size of monk lite.


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> yup. if only for sound, i really don't need anything else right now, as like i said, i already have a solid team of earbuds, each with it's own specialty sound and purposes. i bought the lucky bag because it looks good and the "why not" price
> 
> if i don't like it, i figure it would be a great gift for my nephews.
> 
> the Datura X is a nice example of this:great looking, nicely packaged, and good sound. i like it, but because it doesn't get enough playtime, i gave it to a happy family member


I was about to buy it for the same reason as you,  but I forgot to hit 'buy' xD


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 28, 2019)

Also I have to thank @subwoof3r  for recommending to me the **** copper cable (#125 on the cable thread) for my mojito and another mmcx version for my other mmcx buds.

I was doubtful I would hear any major differences but I was very wrong.

The whole bass to low mid took a moderate boost. It's as if I applied a low shelf filter with +2-3db. The overall sound is very clean though.

My moijto is now my #1 or #2 with this cable and front dampening mods. It's incredibly well balanced and articulate. The bass is powerful, and has excellent impact. Vocals are what I would consider very neutral and in balance with the highs with natural tonality. Highs are smooth and much fuller than the shrill highs of the stock mojito. Soundstage is wide and spacious, but less artificially wide as the stock mojito with it's recessed vocals.

The only thing to compete with this now would be a fully modified K's ling (which would be slightly warmer and has a more sweetly coloured midrange with what I'd consider vocal perfection (slightly forward and incredibly tonality and balance of male-female vocals) but less high end extension and a softer but slightly deeper bass response.

Of course I still have to try this when I mod my zen 2.0 to mmcx and with the diy pk sr2/sr pro (if i buy the pro driver) and I'll probably love it with those too.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 28, 2019)

snip3r77 said:


> ✨✨Now the price is US $13.99 ,Come to Buy it soon for the nicehck me80
> 
> This is original luck bag in the Mid-Year sale.



Are you sure it is $13.99?  Where?  The ME80 still comes up as $16.99 for me which is 20% off the retail price but $7 more than the lucky bag price.

Did you mean 13.99 euro?

Either way it is well worth the price.  I would have liked to  have had one of the zippered NiceHCK hard cases but I can see where the  little bag is more cost efficient.  I rarely put buds or iems in those bags though... I feel like they are less safe.

I did find a perfect use for my bag though.   My little Benjie player came with a "free gift."  A bag that would have fit two players... the player just disappears into the bottom of it and is hard to dig out.  This one is perfect.  It does not say Benjie but neither did the other one   BTW the bud that comes with this player is pleasant to listen with.

I am using the ME80 with one of my more "serious" daps at the moment.  This Benjie is more powerful than it looks though.







I have  posted this photo here before but the pages go by so fast.  The Benjie with its free earbuds.  Love the comfort of this shell.   It is not necessary to spend a lot to enjoy music


----------



## seanc6441

Mojito w/ 4 Core **** OCC Copper Cable


----------



## cqtek (Jun 28, 2019)

NiceHCK ME80 Burning Time!!!


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Also without disrespect there have been a few earbuds I purchased in the last year that were recommended by certain individuals as great buys but my own impressions were not as favourable. That's why I learned to wait until I see multiple impressions now to see what all our different ears hear as we have different ideas of what's 'balanced' sounding or what we prefer



No disrespect taken... unless you're talking about me!    Actually, no disrespect taken even if you are talking about me! 

But what you are saying it good advice. However, if if I know the person doing the recommending generally has the same tastes as me, then that's all I need.


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> The Svara-L v Smabat ST10 is pointless now as Svara-L is discontinued



Except for us poor souls that have the Svara-L and are tormented about whether or not to get the Smabats!

Just kidding though - I am not tormented. My read on it is that the Smabats are an upgrade to the Svara's, but the Svara's are still very good and if one only has the Svara's, they will survive just fine


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Except for us poor souls that have the Svara-L and are tormented about whether or not to get the Smabats!
> 
> Just kidding though - I am not tormented. My read on it is that the Smabats are an upgrade to the Svara's, but the Svara's are still very good and if one only has the Svara's, they will survive just fine



...and maybe you would even prefer the Svara... who knows?


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> ...and maybe you would even prefer the Svara... who knows?



I like your attitude young lady!


----------



## FastAndClean

mbwilson111 said:


> I like this track.  I happen to be wearing headphones at my desk right now though. Sounds good.
> 
> Some days I just can't take things in and out of my ears... buds or iems.
> 
> I do want to listen to an album with the ME80 tonight.


if you like that you will love this track


----------



## waynes world

Good 'ol Jim at NiceHCK has done it again! The ME80's are great. I'm only 2 Radiohead songs into them, but am loving them. Worthy recommendation @ClieOS!


----------



## cqtek

FastAndClean said:


> if you like that you will love this track




Jungle? Me too with ME80:


----------



## FastAndClean

cqtek said:


> Jungle?


"I make music to generate atmospheres, not to complement already existing ones."
Squarepusher


----------



## cqtek

I've known Squarepusher for a while. More than 20 years ago (Date of purchase August 12, 1997) I spent the money I saved on CD...Now on headphones...
Then 2490 pesetas, at the current exchange rate 15€, which costs the ME80...little has changed the thing...


----------



## FastAndClean

cqtek said:


> I've known Squarepusher for a while.


he is not human


----------



## csglinux

jogawag said:


> Has anyone got Moondrop CHACONNE?
> Tell me Its weight, wearing feeling and sounds.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33040362551.html


I heard them last weekend at the SoCal CanJam. They sounded great - better than most of the multi-driver IEMs I listened to. Unexpectedly good bass slam and very nicely detailed. I asked the Moondrop reps on the booth what they thought about using donut foams rather than the full foams that were on them. They said, yes, donut foams would be better, but that they didn't have any for me to try. I tried them without any foams and I think, for me, I'd want the full foams, because the treble was a bit much without them. The only thing I'd worry about is whether, even with full foams, they might be a little too bright for long listening sessions. It's hard to be 100% sure when testing open-backed headphones or earbuds in a noisy CanJam environment. I returned to the Moondrop booth wanting to give them a second listen, but couldn't get close - the Moondrop booth was pretty popular and was getting swarmed. Also, I've never heard the Leibesleid, so I don't know how these compare, but I liked them a lot. They're certainly one of best earbuds I've heard. Infinitely better than Blox TM9!

To answer the other questions, they're reasonably solid and weighty, but not at all uncomfortable. Because of their long thin stems, they just hang there nicely in your ears. I had no complaints or issues with the fit.


----------



## snip3r77

That's what Jim NiceHCK posted at fb 



mbwilson111 said:


> Are you sure it is $13.99?  Where?  The ME80 still comes up as $16.99 for me which is 20% off the retail price but $7 more than the lucky bag price.
> 
> Did you mean 13.99 euro?
> 
> ...


----------



## mbwilson111

snip3r77 said:


> That's what Jim NiceHCK posted at fb



Must be a special deal for Facebook followers.


----------



## chinmie

csglinux said:


> I heard them last weekend at the SoCal CanJam. They sounded great - better than most of the multi-driver IEMs I listened to. Unexpectedly good bass slam and very nicely detailed. I asked the Moondrop reps on the booth what they thought about using donut foams rather than the full foams that were on them. They said, yes, donut foams would be better, but that they didn't have any for me to try. I tried them without any foams and I think, for me, I'd want the full foams, because the treble was a bit much without them. The only thing I'd worry about is whether, even with full foams, they might be a little too bright for long listening sessions. It's hard to be 100% sure when testing open-backed headphones or earbuds in a noisy CanJam environment. I returned to the Moondrop booth wanting to give them a second listen, but couldn't get close - the Moondrop booth was pretty popular and was getting swarmed. Also, I've never heard the Leibesleid, so I don't know how these compare, but I liked them a lot. They're certainly one of best earbuds I've heard. Infinitely better than Blox TM9!
> 
> To answer the other questions, they're reasonably solid and weighty, but not at all uncomfortable. Because of their long thin stems, they just hang there nicely in your ears. I had no complaints or issues with the fit.



i reckoned they don't have the Liebesleid to compare? with the Liebesleid, i also don't like using it without foams. in fact i only like it with full and thick Hiegi foams. with donut foams it sounds more like an IEM: slightly less airy and more focused sound projected into the head. still sounds good, but i just like the full foam experience better. but to be honest it's been a long time since i tried donuts with it, i might have a shift in taste now. i will try it later



waynes world said:


> Except for us poor souls that have the Svara-L and are tormented about whether or not to get the Smabats!
> 
> Just kidding though - I am not tormented. My read on it is that the Smabats are an upgrade to the Svara's, but the Svara's are still very good and if one only has the Svara's, they will survive just fine



all we Svara owners have to listen is the comforting words of Mr @HungryPanda 



HungryPanda said:


> I honestly think Svara- L owners do not need to



(remove from wishlist, browse other targets  )


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> (remove from wishist, browse other targets  )



Put it back on your list Mister - you don't have the 32ohm version!


----------



## ClieOS

waynes world said:


> Except for us poor souls that have the Svara-L and are tormented about whether or not to get the Smabats!



Gonna catch 'em all!!!

Just got another pair of the revised version to compare to my old version.


----------



## TLDRonin

cqtek said:


> NiceHCK ME80 Burning Time!!!


Are those raw measurements?


----------



## RobinFood

ClieOS said:


> Gonna catch 'em all!!!
> 
> Just got another pair of the revised version to compare to my old version.



Smabat was already revised? How do you know which version you are buying?


----------



## ClieOS

RobinFood said:


> Smabat was already revised? How do you know which version you are buying?



By "revised", I mean the time they revised the MMCX socket and cable. Some reportes there is also a slight change in tuning so that's what I am interested in. Even if there is no change in sound, I don't personally mind having a 2nd pair of ST-10 as backup.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jun 29, 2019)

RobinFood said:


> Smabat was already revised? How do you know which version you are buying?



The ST-10 revision is a fixed cable and mmcx connector. Supposed to be same otherwise.

I posted pics of the differences.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2809#post-14962463


----------



## cqtek

TLDRonin said:


> Are those raw measurements?



As I say on my website:

Dayton Audio iMM-6 Calibrated Microphone
Burson Audio Playmate OpAmps V6 Dual Vivid & Classic as source and microphone input
REW Software
Frequency responses are RAW and are not compensated.

Their validity is merely comparative and should not be taken as a reference.

https://hiendportable.com/2019/03/02/respuestas-de-frecuencia/

I have to clarify that @Otto Motor  helped me with the setup of my measurement system. Thanks @Otto Motor.


----------



## mbwilson111

Could someone please provide me with the best current links for the DIY SR2 16 ohm bud.  Ones that are less than $20.  Thanks. I think there is a black cabled one and a red cabled one that have been recommended.  Ali searches are not working well for me at the moment.

I am trying to help a friend and the one I have was from an old listing and had a stiff cable until my husband recabled it.


----------



## cyh03176

mbwilson111 said:


> Could someone please provide me with the best current links for the DIY SR2 16 ohm bud.  Ones that are less than $20.  Thanks. I think there is a black cabled one and a red cabled one that have been recommended.  Ali searches are not working well for me at the moment.
> 
> I am trying to help a friend and the one I have was from an old listing and had a stiff cable until my husband recabled it.


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_5,searchweb201603_60https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_5,searchweb201603_60


----------



## mbwilson111

cyh03176 said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32801265552.html



Thanks.  Do we agree that this would be a good choice as a first bud for someone who likes a balanced signature with iems?  Am I overlooking something?   My brain is fried from the heat.


----------



## Narayan23

mbwilson111 said:


> Thanks.  Do we agree that this would be a good choice as a first bud for someone who likes a balanced signature with iems?  Am I overlooking something?   My brain is fried from the heat.



I bought my SR2 Pk2 16ohm here, they arrived fast: https://es.aliexpress.com/item/32801646835.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.143a63c0QswZvS
and what a nice earbud they are, they need thicker foams to become more balanced in my opinion, the thinner ones have them sounding slightly bright for my taste, also a much better fit than the EMX 500 type shell for me.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 29, 2019)

Narayan23 said:


> I bought my SR2 Pk2 16ohm here, they arrived fast: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32801646835.html
> and what a nice earbud they are, they need thicker foams to become more balanced in my opinion, the thinner ones have them sounding slightly bright for my taste, also a much better fit than the EMX 500 type shell for me.



We like that store.  What color cable did you choose?


----------



## Narayan23

mbwilson111 said:


> We like that store.  What color cable did you choose?



I chose the red, I needed a break from the "all black" monotony to be honest, I even purchased a pink headphone extension cable because the gold 2m length was not available, not the most masculine of colours but I´m also very happy with it and wouldn´t change it for a black one.

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/3288...ail.1000016.1.745f6d905OYF15&isOrigTitle=true


----------



## HungryPanda

Real men wear pink


----------



## waynes world

ClieOS said:


> By "revised", I mean the time they revised the MMCX socket and cable. Some reportes there is also a slight change in tuning so that's what I am interested in. Even if there is no change in sound, I don't personally mind having a 2nd pair of ST-10 as backup.



Darn! I thought you meant "revised 32ohm version of the Svara L", and I was excited to hear your comparison with the Smabat. Oh well!

Btw, I am really enjoying these ME80's. Are you sure the Smabat's are better than them?


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Darn! I thought you meant "revised 32ohm version of the Svara L", and I was excited to hear your comparison with the Smabat. Oh well!
> 
> Btw, I am really enjoying these ME80's. Are you sure the Smabat's are better than them?



The Smabat fits me better... I can't really walk around with the ME80 or it will fall out... any bigger and I would be unable to wear it


----------



## HungryPanda

Smabats are worn over ear ME- 80 are not


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> The Smabat fits me better... I can't really walk around with the ME80 or it will fall out... any bigger and I would be unable to wear it



Interesting. I find that the ME80's fit perfectly in my ears, whereas the Svara L's are a tad bit too small (not sure how the Svara L's compare sizewise to the Smabat's though).


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 29, 2019)

waynes world said:


> (not sure how the Svara L's compare sizewise to the Smabat's though).



They are the same size.

Someone said in a thread once that our avatars should be photos of our ears


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Hey everyone. Back here after almost 2 years hiatus. I have sold everything and kept the AstellnKern AK70 as my source (love it), and Shozy Cygnus as well as Rose Mojito as my earbuds. Sold everything else including my HD600s and my tube amp, as I was just not using them enough. Unfortunately the right ear driver on my Cygnus isn't working anymore, and I unfortunately broke the right earbud by accident on my Rose Mojito (after about 5 years of perfect use).

I messaged Penon Audio if they could replace the cable on my Cygnus and the earbud on my Mojito but no reply yet. Any other idea on what I can do in terms of repairs, or should I just buy new pairs for the Cygnus and Mojito?

Also does anyone know of any earbuds with velvety smooth and upfront vocals like in the Cygus, or gigantic soundstage with good sub-bass like in the Mojito? Anything dual-driver like the Mojito out there?


----------



## MisterMudd

HungryPanda said:


> Real men wear pink


No. No they don't. Lol


----------



## ClieOS

waynes world said:


> ...
> Btw, I am really enjoying these ME80's. Are you sure the Smabat's are better than them?



Why don't you get both and tell us about it 



HungryPanda said:


> Smabats are worn over ear ME- 80 are not



Part of the good thing about MMCX design is that you can swap side (*the driver) on the ST-10 and wear it straight down. I do that sometime.


----------



## chinmie (Jun 30, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> Why don't you get both and tell us about it



the perfect emoticon


----------



## waynes world

ClieOS said:


> Why don't you get both and tell us about it



They *really* need to change the name of this site to Enablers.com


----------



## Otto Motor

Otto Motor said:


> I don't know the Toneking but tested the Smabat: good depth but a metallic sound with horrendous sibilance and unnatural, metallic voices. I also don't know how the shells should keep in my ears: ergonomic horror. Since the left MMCX connector is loose, I'll return it at my own cost. Although it is a "free" review unit, sometimes even free is unaffordable..and mood killing.
> 
> In comparison, the much cheaper ISN Audio Rambo made me hang on to a relatively boring Chopin cello sonata because of its natural timbre...vs. the sterile sounding Smabat.
> 
> And once I am done with the Rambo, I'll retire from earbuds as they are a general design flaw, considering the wrong angle between transducer and ear canal.


I finally got the Smabat ST-10 to work: it took some foams and the Audioquest Dragonfly to make it sound fabulous. Here yet another review of this earbud, right now on the blog, soon to be added to the 9 other reviews here on Head-Fi.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 30, 2019)

Tayyab Pirzada said:


> Hey everyone. Back here after almost 2 years hiatus. I have sold everything and kept the AstellnKern AK70 as my source (love it), and Shozy Cygnus as well as Rose Mojito as my earbuds. Sold everything else including my HD600s and my tube amp, as I was just not using them enough. Unfortunately the right ear driver on my Cygnus isn't working anymore, and I unfortunately broke the right earbud by accident on my Rose Mojito (after about 5 years of perfect use).
> 
> I messaged Penon Audio if they could replace the cable on my Cygnus and the earbud on my Mojito but no reply yet. Any other idea on what I can do in terms of repairs, or should I just buy new pairs for the Cygnus and Mojito?
> 
> Also does anyone know of any earbuds with velvety smooth and upfront vocals like in the Cygus, or gigantic soundstage with good sub-bass like in the Mojito? Anything dual-driver like the Mojito out there?


That's a really nice pair. If you could get them repaired first it would be ideal.

Ask people with the smabat st-10 and mojito if they compare (ClieOS has both) because you ask for good sub bass and  brighter highs (and the mojito has analytical brighter mids and highs which many of the reviews suggest the ST-10 has). But personally I think the Mojito's bass is more mid bass heavy and only moderate sub bass extension/impact. It's a fantastic punchy bass though and also very clean with the right foams. There's not many earbuds with the mojito's sound as it's quiet unique in presentation. Even my modded mojito which sounds more warm-neutral sounds very unique.

As for the cygnus, you could try another docomo-pk style driver earbud. There's many around on aliexpress.

I personally have a spare cygnus driver sitting around as my own cygnus had one driver dead. So if penon don't get back to you give me a shout and we can work something out maybe (I'm in Ireland/EU).


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

seanc6441 said:


> That's a really nice pair. If you could get them repaired first it would be ideal.
> 
> Ask people with the smabat st-10 and mojito if they compare (ClieOS has both) because you ask for good sub bass and  brighter highs (and the mojito has analytical brighter mids and highs which many of the reviews suggest the ST-10 has). But personally I think the Mojito's bass is more mid bass heavy and only moderate sub bass extension/impact. It's a fantastic punchy bass though and also very clean with the right foams. There's not many earbuds with the mojito's sound as it's quiet unique in presentation. Even my modded mojito which sounds more warm-neutral sounds very unique.
> 
> ...



Ah, sounds good. I'll let you know if they don't reply.

And any reccomendations on Docomo-PK style driver earbuds?


----------



## HungryPanda

I really like these that I got recently

￡14.31  5%OFF | DIY PK2 earphone sound good in-ear earphone fever silver plated wire with mic/without mic
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cVVBOem8


----------



## GREQ

I did a heckin' silly project. 
The main goal here was to just have a bit of fun and see if modding is something I'd like to continue with as a hobby.
Hopefully this gives others some information about the pros and cons of basic DIY modding and earbud health and safety 

First I dug out all the old buds I had hiding around the place and bought up a few randoms from the local flea market.
Then I ordered a bunch of Vidos for parts.
Then the Vido drivers (and sometimes cables because some had proprietary phone connectors) went into the new shells.

Pretty self explanatory, but I wanted to explore the effects of different shells and the difference in sound.
Getting a handful of Vidos and simply transplanting the drivers seemed the best and most affordable way to do this, also I might tamper with the spare Vido shells later.
Also, all the following buds either sounded horrible or mediocre in their stock form: Some original measurements are included 

For visual reference, the following bud impressions appear in the order pictured below from Left to Right:
 

*Foreword on drivers and naked driver pics below:*
I made an effort to open up each bud as much as possible and get photos of the drivers, because I enjoy it... this is not my first modding rodeo.
Vido drivers can be taken out of their baffles, but will explode into pieces when they do, so you always have to be careful not to snap the trailing voice coil wire, which is incredibly easy to do.
I did this a few times with zero casualties so I could try out the different baffles, but they all sounded terrible.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
However, the MX365 drivers will explode into separate parts as soon as you open them up, which I was not expecting, so the first driver died (not a loss for anyone I think, since they sound like hot garbage).
*Foreword on original parts:*
I saved as many of the original parts and cables and always try to make my mods reversible - this is just my preferred work method, especially for rarer or vintage items.
Honestly, the only bud I actually care about sentimentally here is the Panasonic as I've owned it for almost 20 years, and that turned out fine.

So let's get started! (apologies for lack of formatting)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*Blue 'unbranded' IEM + Vido drivers*
Shell:
- sharp edges on stalk 

*Mod difficulty* - easy: requires hot glue to stick drivers on
- Drivers will explode into separate parts (diaphragm+voice coil and magnet/rear baffle are not glued together - only connected by trailing voice coil), but they are trash, so no problem.

*Impresssions* (with foams)
- quite boomy, thick tonality
- lacking air and treble
- small soundstage
*no foam*
- lacking bass & sub bass
- moderately clear and articulate
- actually good enough midrange tonality

*(Vido measurements included for tonality comparison)
(Original measurement because lol)*
  
(Modified version channel imbalance might be due to misplacing rear-damping foam, will have to check that out at some point).

*Not recommended* - if you find one, steer clear.
Comments: My daughter got this IEM for free and was very excited to have me mod it for her 
Sounds way better now and actually fits a human ear unlike original IEM with stupid centred tips.
  oops  
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*Nokia  HS-47 + Vido drivers & Cable*
- Limited venting (no vents)
- Thin stalk gives good comfort and fit

*Mod difficulty* - very easy but requires hot glue to finish
- original drivers held in place with rubber rings
- driver unit is sealed with the baffle

*Impressions *(with foams)
- very similar sound in a smaller bud
- better comfort and more manoeuvrability for best fit.
  

*Recommended. *It sounds fine.
*
 *
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*Sennheiser MX365 + Vido drivers*
- very well vented
- requires damping 
- excellent fit and comfort for me personally

*Mod difficulty* - moderate
- drivers will explode into separate parts when opened (not a big loss IMO 
- Vido drivers will snap on like a glove (read in Ace Ventura voice)

*Impresssions *(with foams)
- a touch more bass but a bit mushier, not as tight but more slam
- almost same resolution, slightly congested/lacking in mids
- maybe a smidge more air and soundstage.
   

Recommended, especially for bassheads + electronic music
*Comments: Extremely similar to Kube V2
*
  
(I was careless and one driver died, but these original drivers sound terrible, so it's fine)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*Samlike Retro + Vido drivers*
Shell notes:
- awful quality plastic
- limited venting

*Mod difficulty* - easy: may require hot glue, but drivers should snap on

*Impresssions* (with foams)
- slightly thick sounding - touch too much mid-bass
- lacking some sub bass and treble energy
- overall OK tonality and soundstage
(had to make a measurement to show what a catastrophe the original is)
   

*Somewhat recommended* if aesthetics are worth sacrificing 10-20% sound quality.

   
yumm... German modding fuel. Most Vido damping foam had to be torn out by hand, which was easier than going at it with tweezers and gave better results.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*Panasonic RP-HV377-S + Vido drivers & Cable*
Shell notes:
- Long stalk gives about same comfort as MX500 shell or 'Bigsos'/JVC shell
- Requires damping

*Mod difficulty* - moderately easy: drivers held in place by rubber(?) rings but may break due to becoming brittle with old age 
Driver capsule is sealed
Requires hot glue to finish

*Impressions* (with foams)
- a tiny bit thicker sounding
   

*Recommended* - overall good balance of everything

 
(messy hot glue is removable with a blunt knife, or just hidden by the foams  )
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*LG SGEY0003721 + Vido drivers + Cable*
Shell notes:
- Very good rear venting already with plenty of damping in place
- very small so comfort and fit is 5/5

*Mod difficulty* - very easy - Vido drivers only require hard push to pop on
*Thoughts:*
With light destruction of LG driver cup it might be possible to transfer Vido driver only, which is about 1/2mm wider in diameter.
I did not try this as previous experience of baffles with more holes makes a very bloated sound.

*Impressions *(with foams)
- quite(very?) thick sounding, more midbass
- surprisingly about the same good amount of detail and presentation
(no graph of original because it sounded too bad to be bothered with)
  

*Recommended* - small form factor gives more options for fit.

   
----------------------------------------------------------------------

*Final comments / TLDR / "I don't care about modding or graphs, get to the point":*

Modded Bigsos (JVC shell oem pictured on the very right of first image), Nokia HS-47, Panasonic RP-HV377-S and LG SGEY0003721 all have similar FR and presentation in the end, and sound good to me.
Sennheiser MX365 with Vido drivers sound and measure uncannily similar to Kube V2 - a very welcome surprise since normal Kube 2 does not fit in my ear properly. Now I can enjoy Kube 2 sound!  
Generally very open shells with lots of vents or completely closed shells work best. Not sure what the take away here is. Could just be indirect correlation. 

Cheers.


----------



## Willber

@GREQ Great post.


----------



## HungryPanda

There are a lot of really good drivers out there you could turn them all into something special


----------



## GREQ

HungryPanda said:


> There are a lot of really good drivers out there you could turn them all into something special


That's definitely the next step


----------



## cqtek

Tayyab Pirzada said:


> Ah, sounds good. I'll let you know if they don't reply.
> 
> And any reccomendations on Docomo-PK style driver earbuds?



I'm glad to read you again. It's been a while since you've appeared by the thread...



GREQ said:


> I did a heckin' silly project.
> The main goal here was to just have a bit of fun and see if modding is something I'd like to continue with as a hobby.
> Hopefully this gives others some information about the pros and cons of basic DIY modding and earbud health and safety
> 
> ...



Fantastic work, thank you for your effort.

I'm still hooked on the ME80, I put donuts in them and I'm glad I don't lose too much depth in the bass and gain clarity. You can see the benefits of the capsule, the rear bass port and the depth of the same, I think they help you get the good texture that offers its lower area.
I think these capsules have great potential, I find them very comfortable and despite their size, they don't move and fit me very well, firmly. Setting up an MMCX connection would be easy, in a future model.


----------



## ClieOS

GREQ said:


> I did a heckin' silly project.
> ....



Here.


----------



## mbwilson111

Tayyab Pirzada said:


> Ah, sounds good. I'll let you know if they don't reply.
> 
> And any reccomendations on Docomo-PK style driver earbuds?



I have the one with the pink/white cable from Panda's link. I love it.  Very comfortable and sounds great. Those click links do not work for me and some other people so here is the html one

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32237685233.html

It says PK2 but that is a Docomo shell so maybe a PK2 driver in the Docomo shell.   I love this cable.  A little stiff but is is so pretty.


----------



## seanc6441

Try copying the text of the s.click link and pasting into the web adress bar.

It seems that just clicking the link adds a whole bunch of hidden text to the front of the link which breaks it.

I'm able to open s.click links now once I copy and paste rather than click on the link.


----------



## GREQ

ClieOS said:


> Here.


Thanks I'll check it out!
After the website update I completely forgot about the DIY threads.


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> Try copying the text of the s.click link and pasting into the web adress bar.
> 
> It seems that just clicking the link adds a whole bunch of hidden text to the front of the link which breaks it.
> 
> I'm able to open s.click links now once I copy and paste rather than click on the link.



You are right.  You or someone said that before but I misunderstood and was right clicking and choosing "copy link location."  That did not work either.

Actually doing a copy and paste does work.

Now, if more people would start removing all the garbage that comes after the .html in links copied from the address bar...


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> You are right.  You or someone said that before but I misunderstood and was right clicking and choosing "copy link location."  That did not work either.
> 
> Actually doing a copy and paste does work.
> 
> Now, if more people would start removing all the garbage that comes after the .html in links copied from the address bar...


Thing is when you make the link that garbage is hidden, even looking at the link from this thread it appears normal. I don't know why aliexpress would make links that add all that crap before the actual link, I'm guessing someone who developed the app messed up somewhere.

Anywho, at least we can open them now without too much hassle.


----------



## ounwx (Jun 30, 2019)

*Seeking recommendations on a replacement for Sennheiser MX400/MX365
*
i'm not really an audiophile, but am blessed/cursed with being fairly sensitive to sound quality in general. My 5th or so pair of MX365s just gave out, and I was dumb enough to venture into a local store and pick up low-end "JLab" BT earbuds just to test the waters. They're seriously the worst thing I've ever heard, including freebies that came with my phones that I tested for a laugh before tossing. Simply insultingly bad. If that's what $20 gets you in in the wireless department, then I'll hold out another decade.

So, back to the old school options. I recall owning MX400s in the early-mid 2000s and _loved_ them. Then they were discontinued, and I was forced to the MX365s for the past 6? 8? maybe 10 years? They're fine, but I recall them feeling like a step down in both quality and max volume when I first switched. So what I'd really like is something close to the MX400, if that exists.

I listen primarily to hard rock and similar genres. I very much prefer the old-school bud shape of the aforementioned (MX400/365), as opposed to IEMs or anything with tips, etc., though that's not necessarily an absolute requirement. After 10 minutes of browsing, I've come up with Venture MONK+ and Edifier H180 as possible contenders. But if there's anything else in the sub-$50 range I should strongly consider, I'm all ears. I should also add that I tend to prefer bright/forward highs (think Klipsch), so anything known specifically for recessed highs probably won't work. Robust max volume also fairly important (certainly no quieter than MX365).


----------



## theresanarc

Before I drop a tenner on the Monk Lites, does anyone else know of any other earbuds using that same ergonomic Qian39 shell?

Also, can someone link me to those thin foams on AE that would be good for more forward sounding/clearer vocals? Someone mentioned them earlier here but I can't find the link.


----------



## wskl

theresanarc said:


> Before I drop a tenner on the Monk Lites, does anyone else know of any other earbuds using that same ergonomic Qian39 shell?



Hisoundaudio HSA-E351
https://penonaudio.com/hisoundaudio-hsa-e351.html


----------



## assassin10000

theresanarc said:


> Also, can someone link me to those thin foams on AE that would be good for more forward sounding/clearer vocals? Someone mentioned them earlier here but I can't find the link.



Links are here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2776#post-14912001


----------



## subwoof3r

mbwilson111 said:


> I have the one with the pink/white cable from Panda's link. I love it.  Very comfortable and sounds great. Those click links do not work for me and some other people so here is the html one
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32237685233.html
> 
> It says PK2 but that is a Docomo shell so maybe a PK2 driver in the Docomo shell.   I love this cable.  A little stiff but is is so pretty.


I wonder how original PK1 red film drivers would sound on these Docomo shells 
I'm pretty sure it will even sound much better than the installed PK2 drivers
Tempting...


----------



## mbwilson111

subwoof3r said:


> I wonder how original PK1 red film drivers would sound on these Docomo shells
> I'm pretty sure it will even sound much better than the installed PK2 drivers
> Tempting...



We need to find a cheap source for those shells.  I would not sacrifice a pair of these PK2 ones.


----------



## cyh03176

is K's 500ohm any good? thinking of buying it for $50 used


----------



## HungryPanda

K's K500 is an excellent earbud


----------



## seanc6441

On a scale of 1 to BS how does this rank? The listing is also tagged as 'Noise Cancelling'

 

Hate this kind of marketing, some guy was asking me what i thought about the new moondrop orthodynamic after seeing this. So misleading.


----------



## Bonzo78

cyh03176 said:


> is K's 500ohm any good? thinking of buying it for $50 used


It is really good, my first and only "expensive" earbud. It's really a step above!


----------



## HungryPanda

It is worth $50 I love mine


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 1, 2019)

ounwx said:


> *Seeking recommendations on a replacement for Sennheiser MX400/MX365
> *
> i'm not really an audiophile, but am blessed/cursed with being fairly sensitive to sound quality in general. My 5th or so pair of MX365s just gave out, and I was dumb enough to venture into a local store and pick up low-end "JLab" BT earbuds just to test the waters. They're seriously the worst thing I've ever heard, including freebies that came with my phones that I tested for a laugh before tossing. Simply insultingly bad. If that's what $20 gets you in in the wireless department, then I'll hold out another decade.
> 
> ...


Willsound mk2 mmcx version. $37 http://www.rholupat.com/willsound-buds/willsound-mk2-mmcx.html

Just add a cable from aliexpress. This one is recommended for the price $10 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/33030782005.html

So that's $47 for a really good balanced sounding earbud with enough of energy in the bass and highs. It can suit a wide variety of genres including rock. And if your cable ever breaks you can just buy another for $10... The cable i linked is probably much more durable than stock mx365 cable anyway.

I'm not sure if they still ship with thin foams, if so here's some extra foams you can use when the stock ones get used up. $0.50... Practically pennys.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32909795959.html

If you find them a bit itchy at first, just wash them in warm soapy water then risnse them off. Should soften up that way. I personally find them just fine.


----------



## groucho69

cyh03176 said:


> is K's 500ohm any good? thinking of buying it for $50 used



Good deal


----------



## Marcos Fontana

seanc6441 said:


> Willsound mk2 mmcx version. $37 http://www.rholupat.com/willsound-buds/willsound-mk2-mmcx.html
> 
> Just add a cable from aliexpress. This one is recommended for the price $10 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/33030782005.html
> 
> ...


Wow!!!!

Nice price. I will get 2, 2.5 and 3.5. Do you know if where I could find a smaller mmcx cable to use with the ES100?


----------



## ounwx

seanc6441 said:


> Willsound mk2 mmcx version. $37 http://www.rholupat.com/willsound-buds/willsound-mk2-mmcx.html
> 
> Just add a cable from aliexpress. This one is recommended for the price $10 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/33030782005.html
> 
> ...


Very interesting and helpful, thanks. Are these Willsounds generally regarded as clearly better than the plethora of $5-10 options like Monk, Faaeal, etc.?

I really like the idea of using a separate, high-quality cable, as that's been the failure point for every pair of buds I've ever owned. Are there any decent but cheaper options out there that can take these plug-style connectors and wouldn't require soldering/recabling? I'm not averse to paying $47 for something good, but I also like to have several spares for portable/semi-disposable use in the car, office, etc.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

ounwx said:


> Very interesting and helpful, thanks. Are these Willsounds generally regarded as clearly better than the plethora of $5-10 options like Monk, Faaeal, etc.?
> 
> I really like the idea of using a separate, high-quality cable, as that's been the failure point for every pair of buds I've ever owned. Are there any decent but cheaper options out there that can take these plug-style connectors and wouldn't require soldering/recabling? I'm not averse to paying $47 for something good, but I also like to have several spares for portable/semi-disposable use in the car, office, etc.


Ry4s mmcx at $3.99. The plus version(subjectively sounds better) is $7.99. Emx500 mmcx is like $8-9 too. Both of them are legend status buds.


----------



## theresanarc

wskl said:


> Hisoundaudio HSA-E351
> https://penonaudio.com/hisoundaudio-hsa-e351.html



Twice the price of the Qian39 and Monk Lite but I do love the shell and if that's the only other option then I don't mind trying it. $13 is still cheap (there's one seller on AliExpress).


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

The right driver on my Rose Mojito is broken. Would anyone here be willing to sell me their right driver if they have a spare? Long shot, but thought I'd ask.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 1, 2019)

ounwx said:


> Very interesting and helpful, thanks. Are these Willsounds generally regarded as clearly better than the plethora of $5-10 options like Monk, Faaeal, etc.?
> 
> I really like the idea of using a separate, high-quality cable, as that's been the failure point for every pair of buds I've ever owned. Are there any decent but cheaper options out there that can take these plug-style connectors and wouldn't require soldering/recabling? I'm not averse to paying $47 for something good, but I also like to have several spares for portable/semi-disposable use in the car, office, etc.


Yes 

These are favoured over many budget pairs around here. Not just by me but by others too. I'd say the mk2 is one of the best choices under $60 especially the mmcx version because the mk2 with stock cable wasn't a great cable for its aesthetic or useability as it was very thin and stiff, very cheap feeling wire.

The cable linked is one of the best around $15 according to a very informative thread here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/resistance-of-cables-pics-comments-and-links.907998/

But there's better cables around $50+. I bought a $65 cable that was highly regarded in that thread and I absolutely agree with the thread starters acessment of its sound. He also measures them so he comments about their resistance and subjective quality.

So it's really up to you how much you wanna spend on a cable. $10, $50, or more... But I'd recommend looking at that thread and not blind buying expensive cables as some of them measure poorly or some sellers sell the cables for way above the asking price on other sites/listings.


----------



## seanc6441

Marcos Fontana said:


> Wow!!!!
> 
> Nice price. I will get 2, 2.5 and 3.5. Do you know if where I could find a smaller mmcx cable to use with the ES100?


It is nice yeah. 'These were very conductive copper and sounded decent (good for the price)' that was the comments on the cables thread I was researching.

So it certainly is a nice buy if you want cables for budget earbuds, or need a few extra cables.

They look well finished too, nicehck makes good quality stuff.

Sadly there was no mention of small cables, I rarely see cables under 1.2m being sold.

I think ClieOS was selling one recently but it may be sold.


----------



## seanc6441

BadReligionPunk said:


> Ry4s mmcx at $3.99. The plus version(subjectively sounds better) is $7.99. Emx500 mmcx is like $8-9 too. Both of them are legend status buds.


These are good, i still think the mk2 is like an accumulation of all the best budget earbuds into one all round slightly better earbud. It has a great all round quality.

It has a few minor weakness in the mids and imaging precision but nothing major at all.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

seanc6441 said:


> Just add a cable from aliexpress. This one is recommended for the price $10 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/33030782005.html



Which cable is better Nicehck or ****? at a similar price


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 2, 2019)

Alex.Grimm said:


> Which cable is better Nicehck or ****? at a similar price


I'm only going by the list on the cables thread.

Nicehck had that $10 cable, a $50 cable and a few $80-100 cables mentioned.

The only **** cable I saw listed was the $65 cable I bought which turned out to be excellent but heavy (36g vs an average 25g of other cables).

If you buy any cables other than the ones this guy Hakuzen has tested, your shooting in the dark.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/resistance-of-cables-pics-comments-and-links.907998/


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Jul 2, 2019)

Today received Willsound MK2 & MK3. While managed to listen to only one song. Got a wow effect, it resembles a sound like  in a Vido with only the best sound quality. The MK2 have more bass in the MK3, a bit less, the emphasis is more on the middle. By sound, both seemed the best of what I had. I will listen to the week, then I will say more precisely, the first effect is sometimes false.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Wish I could use MK2...But the size of the buds are too large for my ears. I prefer something that has the PK1 shell or Rose Mojito. Will have to try Monk Lite since I heard they are ergonomic for small ears also.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Tayyab Pirzada said:


> Wish I could use MK2...But the size of the buds are too large for my ears. I prefer something that has the PK1 shell or Rose Mojito. Will have to try Monk Lite since I heard they are ergonomic for small ears also.



If you prefer small or yuin sized earbuds :

Willsound PK16 : for lighter approach
Willsound PK32 : for warm and punchy bass


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 2, 2019)

Alex.Grimm said:


> If you prefer small or yuin sized earbuds :
> 
> Willsound PK16 : for lighter approach
> Willsound PK32 : for warm and punchy bass



Respectfully, I always find it rather odd when people recommend unavailable/discontinued products though some might indeed seek a used, second-hand product though not usually ear buds at this price point.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

WoodyLuvr said:


> Respectfully, I always find it rather odd when people recommend unavailable/discontinued products though some might indeed seek a used, second-hand product though not usually ear buds at this price point.



Seriously? I did not know sorry


----------



## irv003

Alex.Grimm said:


> Today received Willsound MK2 & MK3. While managed to listen to only one song. Got a wow effect, it resembles a sound like  in a Vido with only the best sound quality. The MK2 have more bass in the MK3, a bit less, the emphasis is more on the middle. By sound, both seemed the best of what I had. I will listen to the week, then I will say more precisely, the first effect is sometimes false.


MK3 has faster bass response but with forward mids compare to MK2.
MK2 is Ushaped


----------



## seanc6441

irv003 said:


> MK3 has faster bass response but with forward mids compare to MK2.
> MK2 is Ushaped


Just a little U shape, I feel like the upper mids and highs are in balance, the low mids are dipped a bit but the emphasised mid bass gives it enough warmth to not sound sterile.

Comparatively speaking I think they have better balance than most buds in the up to $30 range. I just wish they were slightly more refined and neutral in the upper bass and low mids.


----------



## irv003

seanc6441 said:


> Just a little U shape, I feel like the upper mids and highs are in balance, the low mids are dipped a bit but the emphasised mid bass gives it enough warmth to not sound sterile.
> 
> Comparatively speaking I think they have better balance than most buds in the up to $30 range. I just wish they were slightly more refined and neutral in the upper bass and low mids.


right, the MK2 special edition is less Ushaped, enhances both ends with better mids


----------



## waynes world

Doing a little bit of comparing between the Yincrow RW9's and the ME80's. I've come to the conclusion that they are both horrible.

Joking joking. The RW9's are a bit warmer in that they have more midbass, and the treble of the ME80's has a bit more energy.

And they are both awesome


----------



## cyh03176

waynes world said:


> Doing a little bit of comparing between the Yincrow RW9's and the ME80's. I've come to the conclusion that they are both horrible.
> 
> Joking joking. The RW9's are a bit warmer in that they have more midbass, and the treble of the ME80's has a bit more energy.
> 
> And they are both awesome



pls compare me80 with the fengru silvers.


----------



## Con Par

Sennheiser MX 400 vs Sennheiser MX 375 vs Sennheiser MX 170?
Which one you think is the best?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Con Par said:


> Sennheiser MX 400 vs Sennheiser MX 375 vs Sennheiser MX 170?
> Which one you think is the best?



none, all outdated. any earbuds from aliexpress sound better


----------



## mbwilson111

My RY4S MMCX Plus arrived earlier today.  I am very happy with the sound.  I have a balanced cable for it but using the adapter I have just been listening out the regular output of my Cayin N3.  Everything sounds good on the Cayin N3

I think these will become one of my favorites.  I do think that mmcx connectors sticking out of a Monk type shell looks a little weird.


----------



## Veyska

Veyska said:


> Decided to indulge a masochistic impulse and picked up one of the super cheap pairs folks were recommending (the Fengru silver I think it was).  Arrived the other day and apparently in the decade or two since last I bothered trying traditional earbuds there's been a vast improvement in how well they stay in my ears... which is to say if I'm just sitting in a chair I can actually look around without them going kerplonk out of my ears.  Still not stable enough for anything useful but hey...  Tried flipping them cable up like they were MMCX but they didn't sound as decent like that and I can't tell how much of that is the earbud factor generally relying on gravity to get a firm fit and how much is this earbud design being restricted to cable down.  Results inconclusive, suspecting I should have just spent a few bucks more and nabbed something like the PT15 even though it might not have been as highly rated sound-wise because this was as much a form factor experiment as anything.


Boyfriend was cheerfully complaining to me that I'd spoiled his ears and his Apple earpods at work didn't sound good anymore (he uses wired Bose earphones at home, doesn't like the feel of IEMs and prefers not wearing headphones), and a few days I remembered I had the Fengrus buried on my desk somewhere.  Dug them up, tossed the little case they came in his way, and he says they sound much better.    If he gets restless again or his Bose die I may come poke this thread for recommendations, his ears don't have the same issue with earbuds that mine do.


----------



## seanc6441

Alex.Grimm said:


> none, all outdated. any earbuds from aliexpress sound better


Have you tried all those sennheiser earbuds? I remember people saying one of the line up below mx985 sounded decent, not sure if it was mx400 or maybe mx 580/760/880

Of course there was the classic mx500 

I'd be pretty cool to own the complete collection...

Oh god, is this where it starts @HungryPanda @mbwilson111 ? Will I soon have more earbuds than storage space? XD


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> Oh god, is this where it starts @HungryPanda @mbwilson111 ? Will I soon have more earbuds than storage space? XD



Probably.  I bought my first bud two years ago. A Monk.

Now...I have...a few more...


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Oh god, is this where it starts @HungryPanda @mbwilson111 ? Will I soon have more earbuds than storage space? XD



I don't know if that's where it starts. But that is definitely where it ends. Actually, it never ends!


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> I don't know if that's where it starts. But that is definitely where it ends. Actually, it never ends!


Glad to see you corrected yourself there.


----------



## HeadlessChicken

seanc6441 said:


> Oh god, is this where it starts @HungryPanda @mbwilson111 ? Will I soon have more earbuds than storage space? XD



I have more earbuds than storage space, especially with the ME80 and RY4S 300ohm incoming


----------



## seanc6441

HeadlessChicken said:


> I have more earbuds than storage space, especially with the ME80 and RY4S 300ohm incoming



Interested to hear impressions of the 300ohm!


----------



## ounwx (Jul 2, 2019)

Just received my first 2 pairs of "cheapo buds" from Amazon courtesy of reading this thread. Initial impressions are not what I expected; a good reminder that trying the cheapest or most readily available options first is always warranted before investing in something that's harder or costlier to get your hands on!

*Sennheiser MX365* - I've been using these for years, so this is my reference point. They've always been acceptable/good for me, without knowing any better. After comparison with the below, I find these are relatively *more* balanced on EQ (stronger mids) and have a reasonably forward/flat soundstage, which is something I actually prefer. However, they've been described as muddy in multiple HF posts, and I kind of see why now. Still, if these were still available for $10-15, I might just stock up on more of these and turn away from this rabbit hole!

*Edifier H180* - these were widely described as among the most balanced options of the bunch, likely to be at least acceptable for everyone, with perhaps some tendency toward a V-shape EQ. To me, they clearly have a wider soundstage (reminiscent of Senn HD cans I've tried) than the other two. Being that I mainly listen to heavy rock, I don't love this characteristic. Still, they sound good... although the V-shape might be a bit much, and the highs become slightly fatiguing at high volume (even as someone who prefers Klipsch speakers).

*FAAEAL Datura X* - with a much more polarizing reputation, I figured I'd have a strong reaction here. They're probably my least favorite of the 3, but only by a little. One thing I noticed is they sound awesome at low volume, when you're not expecting any bass to begin with. High-mids and treble are simply glorious up until you reach high volumes. But man, bass is _nonexistent_, no matter the volume. I'm not a basshead, but I still don't know that I can abide this! I think these will work great in my office, where I usually need to keep volume low... they also leak less than the others due to the metal design.

So I come away from dipping my toes in the water more conflicted than I expected. Based on some of the talk here, I expected just about anything new would best the old MX365... but neither of these did convincingly, to my ear. Instead, it's a matter of many tradeoffs between the 3. I frequently listen at volumes above what I probably should, and I actually have to give the edge to the Senns in holding up best when pushed like that.

I'm planning on putting in an order for several of the favorites (EMX500, RY4S, etc.) at AliExpress... but considering the 3-4 week ship time, I'd like to give Amazon at least one more shot to put something on my doorstep in 2 days that will convince me no further searching is warranted. The only other options are the *FAAEAL Iris 1.0 and 2.0*, and the *Snow-Lotus 1.0, 1.0+, and 2.0*. If anyone has tried more than one of that group, any thoughts on which is the most balanced overall? The biggest thing I learned today is that "too bright" actually is a point even I can reach, but I still don't think I'd enjoy something that's super dark or rolled off. If I had to describe what I'm after, it would be something like a cleaner MX365 or a Datura X with more bass and low-mids. Balanced, clear, forward, fast, flat soundtage.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 2, 2019)

ounwx said:


> Just received my first 2 pairs of "cheapo buds" from Amazon courtesy of reading this thread. Initial impressions are not what I expected; a good reminder that trying the cheapest or most readily available options first is always warranted before investing in something that's harder or costlier to get your hands on!
> 
> *Sennheiser MX365* - I've been using these for years, so this is my reference point. They've always been acceptable/good for me, without knowing any better. After comparison with the below, I find these are relatively *more* balanced on EQ (stronger mids) and have a reasonably forward/flat soundstage, which is something I actually prefer. However, they've been described as muddy in multiple HF posts, and I kind of see why now. Still, if these were still available for $10-15, I might just stock up on more of these and turn away from this rabbit hole!
> 
> ...


Are you using foams on them? I really dislike overly bright earbuds too. I cannot stand a lack of bass and low mid presence to balance the sound.

Snow lotus 1.0+ gave me beyerdynamic vibes, but without that piercing treble or strong bass. It's a little bass light but not anemic, just soft and below the level of the treble, mids are slightly lean and the highs are airy and slightly emphasised in the mid-upper treble (that's why I think they sound like the beyer 1350s i have which aren't the brightest of beyers but still airy). These might be awesome candidates for modding, the stock tuning probably isn't exactly what you're after though.

RY4S has also neutralish tight  mid bass but lacks the extension and impact (a very good candidate for a bass port mod which notably increases the bass impact and depth), slightly dipped low mid, slightly too agressive upper mids but a good balance in the treble. They sound a bit narrow and forward.

Emx500 is bassy, that warm and full bass but not exactly tight or as impressively deep hitting as some other bassy earbuds a wide but mild dip in the low mids up to the main vocal range, but raises in the upper mids and lower treble to give a full treble, decent air and extension.

You're looking for neutral I'm guessing. Budget earbuds usually don't offer that in STOCK. I think you'd be better off looking at docomo-pk earbuds as they have more forward and tonally balanced mids and soundstaging that's more intimate/forward.

The bass on docomo's isnt the deepest but has enough body and punch at least my cygnus did. The highs are full bodied and sparkle. A little emphasis in the low treble but nothing offensive.


----------



## assassin10000

ounwx said:


> Balanced, clear, forward, fast, flat soundtage.



You may need to try something like the EBX. Problem is it's normally 7-10x the cost of the cheaper buds. It's balanced, clear, forward and fast. I couldn't say on soundstage being flat but it is good.

The EB2 or maybe the ME80 may also work. I haven't heard the EB2 so can't say for sure and my ME80 (lucky bag) is still on the way.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

assassin10000 said:


> You may need to try something like the EBX. Problem is it's normally 7-10x the cost of the cheaper buds. It's balanced, clear, forward and fast. I couldn't say on soundstage being flat but it is good.
> 
> The EB2 or maybe the ME80 may also work. I haven't heard the EB2 so can't say for sure and my ME80 (lucky bag) is still on the way.


Concur, you should give the ME80 a try... real bang for the buck earbuds IMHO. Maybe @mbwilson111 @HungryPanda will chime in on this one when they are awake.


----------



## cyh03176

i prefer tingo tg-38s or fengru silvers over the me80. tingo's fuller bass and thicker mid is simply unbeatable if you like anything with vocal.


----------



## HeadlessChicken (Jul 3, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> Interested to hear impressions of the 300ohm!


Unfortunately those are stuck at the post office for now... The postman didnt bother to ring the doorbell and decided to leave a "delivery failed" notice in the letterbox instead. So now I have to go in person to collect them, probably sometime this week

At least I have the ME80


----------



## HungryPanda

My 300 ohm ones have fallen into the black hole that is Atherstone RDC


----------



## letlive

mbwilson111 said:


> My RY4S MMCX Plus arrived earlier today.  I am very happy with the sound.  I have a balanced cable for it but using the adapter I have just been listening out the regular output of my Cayin N3.  Everything sounds good on the Cayin N3
> 
> I think these will become one of my favorites.  I do think that mmcx connectors sticking out of a Monk type shell looks a little weird.


 Which cable is it?


----------



## BabyLamb89

ounwx said:


> *Sennheiser MX365* - I've been using these for years, so this is my reference point. They've always been acceptable/good for me, without knowing any better. After comparison with the below, I find these are relatively *more* balanced on EQ (stronger mids) and have a reasonably forward/flat soundstage, which is something I actually prefer. However, they've been described as muddy in multiple HF posts, and I kind of see why now. Still, if these were still available for $10-15, I might just stock up on more of these and turn away from this rabbit hole!



I actually agree with you. When I realised my ears can not handle IEMs, these were the first decent earbuds I could get hold of that weren't from the supermarket and they have a balanced, pleasing sound. Compared to my Yincrows for example they do sound a bit muddy but their ability brought a smile to my face more than once. 

Now they are just my back-ups. Currently trying to gauge what I think of my Audio-Technica ATH-J100s.


----------



## HeadlessChicken

HungryPanda said:


> My 300 ohm ones have fallen into the black hole that is Atherstone RDC


My local post office has really terrible service. The postmen have been caught throwing away mails and parcels in the bin because they were too lazy to deliver them. When I got a delivery failed notification from aliexpress I instantly thought of that!


----------



## satansmutt

HungryPanda said:


> My 300 ohm ones have fallen into the black hole that is Atherstone RDC



Mine have also entered this mystical place I wonder if they will ever make it out alive?


----------



## snip3r77

mbwilson111 said:


> My RY4S MMCX Plus arrived earlier today.  I am very happy with the sound.  I have a balanced cable for it but using the adapter I have just been listening out the regular output of my Cayin N3.  Everything sounds good on the Cayin N3
> 
> I think these will become one of my favorites.  I do think that mmcx connectors sticking out of a Monk type shell looks a little weird.


How does it stack with UE ?


----------



## snip3r77

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur, you should give the ME80 a try... real bang for the buck earbuds IMHO. Maybe @mbwilson111 @HungryPanda will chime in on this one when they are awake.


The ME80 is a no brainer at $10


----------



## HungryPanda

satansmutt said:


> Mine have also entered this mystical place I wonder if they will ever make it out alive?


I have two parcel went there by mistake in the last week and I always worry as one went there in August 2018 and was never seen again


----------



## seanc6441

HeadlessChicken said:


> My local post office has really terrible service. *The postmen have been caught throwing away mails and parcels in the bin because they were too lazy to deliver them*. When I got a delivery failed notification from aliexpress I instantly thought of that!


Seriously? That's a new low.

Makes me respect my local postman and lady even more now. At most the delivery is late, but it always arrives.

For me, it's some of the delivery service couriers that are dodgy, leaving parcels at the door without ringing the doorbell, damaging parcels because they don't care about the handling of them etc.


----------



## subwoof3r

HeadlessChicken said:


> My local post office has really terrible service. The postmen have been caught throwing away mails and parcels in the bin because they were too lazy to deliver them. When I got a delivery failed notification from aliexpress I instantly thought of that!


Would be nice to know the place of that bin!  (if all his friends didn't knew it already...)
Hopefully for you he has been fired properly!


----------



## mbwilson111

letlive said:


> Which cable is it?



Search aliexpress for 6 Core 2.5/3.5/4.4mm Balance Copper Plated Cable.  You can choose MMCX or 2 pin plus you choose what plug you want.  I see it is $11.99 right now.  Not sure what we paid.


----------



## ounwx

Many thanks for the replies. Still mulling over trying one of the Snow-Lotus varieties since they're about the same on Amazon Prime as AliExpress, but regardless, leaning towards ordering a sampler of sorts from AE with some combination of the below:

FAAEAL Iris 1.0
Fengru EMX500
NICEHCK Vido
Philips SHE3800
QuianYun Quian25
RYGMR RY4S UE
TY Hi-Z TY

Can someone link to what is commonly referred to as the* FENGRU SILVERS*? That's the one I saw repeatedly in this thread but couldn't find on AE. I'd probably add those or swap one of the above out to make room for it, if they're still available.

The entire list above comes out under $40 shipped, which I hope is easily worth it to narrow down signatures before moving up... and if I'm lucky, maybe even finding one I like enough to settle on and just stock up on 4 more pairs for practically nothing. There are a few options in that $12-20 range like NICECHK EB2, NICECHK ME80, and Fengru PK2 I haven't ruled out throwing into the order, but not sure it's worth doing a hapless "buffet" in that price range until I at least check out the truly cheap options first.

To answer an earlier question: I am using the included foam on both the Datura X and H180, even though I've always preferred my MX365s naked. I quickly saw the benefits of slapping on the pads for a brighter bud.


----------



## Willber

ounwx said:


> Can someone link to what is commonly referred to as the* FENGRU SILVERS*? That's the one I saw repeatedly in this thread but couldn't find on AE. I'd probably add those or swap one of the above out to make room for it, if they're still available.


These are the ones I got (I have three):

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32687542028.html

I have most of the buds on your list and I prefer the FS to all of them.


----------



## ClieOS




----------



## cyh03176

ClieOS said:


>


**** kp110? how is the comfort and sound?


----------



## waynes world

cyh03176 said:


> i prefer tingo tg-38s or fengru silvers over the me80. tingo's fuller bass and thicker mid is simply unbeatable if you like anything with vocal.



I initially was comparing the Silvers with full foams to the ME80's with donuts, and the ME80's were doing it for me a bit more. I then realized the error of my ways and got donuts onto the Silvers as well. They are differences but I don't have the ears or vocabulary to explain them. All I can really say is that they both are pretty friggin' awesome sounding to me (which is a testament to the $5 Silvers!).


----------



## cyh03176

waynes world said:


> I initially was comparing the Silvers with full foams to the ME80's with donuts, and the ME80's were doing it for me a bit more. I then realized the error of my ways and got donuts onto the Silvers as well. They are differences but I don't have the ears or vocabulary to explain them. All I can really say is that they both are pretty friggin' awesome sounding to me (which is a testament to the $5 Silvers!).


it's very frustrating for me. i have to listen to every song 3 times now because all 3 gives me different sound signatures (me80, silvers and zeva superfire) >.< each of them is good in their own way


----------



## mbwilson111

cyh03176 said:


> it's very frustrating for me. i have to listen to every song 3 times now because all 3 gives me different sound signatures (me80, silvers and zeva superfire) >.< each of them is good in their own way



Just relax and use the different ones on different days or you will drive yourself crazy.


----------



## FastAndClean

cyh03176 said:


> **** kp110? how is the comfort and sound?


like to know that as well, if it is fast and clean i am in


----------



## waynes world

cyh03176 said:


> it's very frustrating for me. i have to listen to every song 3 times now because all 3 gives me different sound signatures (me80, silvers and zeva superfire) >.< each of them is good in their own way



Frustrating - exactly! That's why I rarely do it anymore (but for you I made an exception lol)


----------



## coflaes

ClieOS said:


>


How much they cost in USD?


----------



## seanc6441

ounwx said:


> Many thanks for the replies. Still mulling over trying one of the Snow-Lotus varieties since they're about the same on Amazon Prime as AliExpress, but regardless, leaning towards ordering a sampler of sorts from AE with some combination of the below:
> 
> FAAEAL Iris 1.0
> Fengru EMX500
> ...



Nice list, I was going to say you could grab the mmcx versions of those buds (emx500 and ry4s plus) and a $10 nicehck cable that looks and most likely performs better than the cheap stock cables you get with those earbuds

... But, I'm not a fan of how these mmcx connectors are being implemented on those earbuds compared to the more elegant and compact designs seen around custom mmcx conversions.

Also I think one of the other faaeal's was reviewed and called a darker sounding bud. The faaeal rosemary I believe that was the one. Might be worth adding that to your list.


----------



## ClieOS

cyh03176 said:


> **** kp110? how is the comfort and sound?





FastAndClean said:


> like to know that as well, if it is fast and clean i am in



Very open, clean and tight sounding, kinda like PT15 but not as bright / treble focus so it is not exactly a cold sounding earbud, and definitely not warm either. It is close to neutral but not exactly reference flat. Those of you who like the PT15 will likely love this one. It is a fully open back design so noise isolation is close to none (though probably not a big problem from most earbuds user anyway). Comfort can be a hit or miss - due to the shape, you will need to adjust the angle of the MMCX socket part of the earbud so it won't touching the ears, The front plate isn't small but luckily tight fit isn't a requirement to get good sound due to the open deign, but those with small ears still might not like it.




coflaes said:


> How much they cost in USD?



Taobao price is RMB499, so around US$72 at today's exchange rate.


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> Very open, clean and tight sounding, kinda like PT15 but not as bright / treble focus so it is not exactly a cold sounding earbud, and definitely not warm either. It is close to neutral but not exactly reference flat. Those of you who like the PT15 will likely love this one. It is a fully open back design so noise isolation is close to none (though probably not a big problem from most earbuds user anyway). Comfort can be a hit or miss - due to the shape, you will need to adjust the angle of the MMCX socket part of the earbud so it won't touching the ears, The front plate isn't small but luckily tight fit isn't a requirement to get good sound due to the open deign, but those with small ears still might not like it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks ClieOS, good to see impressions of these!

And how is the low end quantity and quality?


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> Thanks ClieOS, good to see impressions of these!
> 
> And how is the low end quantity and quality?



Good quality, but fairly neutral in quantity.


----------



## waynes world (Jul 4, 2019)

ounwx said:


> Many thanks for the replies. Still mulling over trying one of the Snow-Lotus varieties since they're about the same on Amazon Prime as AliExpress, but regardless, leaning towards ordering a sampler of sorts from AE with some combination of the below:
> 
> FAAEAL Iris 1.0
> Fengru EMX500
> ...



Out of that list I only have the Vido's, EMX500, RY4S UE and Datura X. The Vido's, and then the EMX500's were both revelations when I first got them, so I suppose they are no brainers.

At this point for me, the other no brainers are:
RY4S UE
Snow Lotus 1.0+ CE (if it's still available)
Fengru Silvers
ME80
Yincrow RW9
Kube V1

and for a bit more:
Sabia V6 experimental  <-- edit: discontinued, but look forward to the V7's
Willsound MK2

and for yet a bit more:
Smabat ST10 (I don't have them, but they are supposedly similar to the Svara L 32ohms which I love).


----------



## cyh03176

came across a supposedly another variant of RY4S? it's called RY4S HI. what's the difference between HI and UE?


----------



## seanc6441

cyh03176 said:


> came across a supposedly another variant of RY4S? it's called RY4S HI. what's the difference between HI and UE?


I think it was mentioned before that it has a different cable. Maybe the search function will yield some results.


----------



## cyh03176

seanc6441 said:


> I think it was mentioned before that it has a different cable. Maybe the search function will yield some results.


thx, forgot about the search function but there was no direct comparison, guess nobody has both of them


----------



## GREQ

waynes world said:


> Out of that list I only have the Vido's, EMX500, RY4S UE and Datura X. The Vido's, and then the EMX500's were both revelations when I first got them, so I suppose they are no brainers.
> 
> At this point for me, the other no brainers are:
> RY4S UE
> ...


Isn't Sabia V6 out of production now?
On the last batch of V6 from the ebay seller there was a note in the description "see you on the V7" (or something similar to that effect).


----------



## wskl

cyh03176 said:


> thx, forgot about the search function but there was no direct comparison, guess nobody has both of them



Someone did have both but I can't find the post.  From memory, the HI was less bassy and more detailed than the UE version.  I had also messaged the seller previously about the differences, he said UE has copper cable and HI is using SPC cable.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Jul 4, 2019)

cyh03176 said:


> came across a supposedly another variant of RY4S? it's called RY4S HI. what's the difference between HI and UE?



RY4S UE/Hi/Plus is awesome, very detailed. But the common version (~$3) is awesome too. They use the same drivers, the only change is a small tuning film that is not present on UE/Hi/Plus version, that is why it sounds more open and detailed (on the left, common version drivers, on the right, UE/Hi/Plus version drivers).

Hi version uses this cable https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32907557028.html
UE uses UE cable
Plus without cable with mmcx


----------



## cyh03176 (Jul 4, 2019)

waynes world said:


> Out of that list I only have the Vido's, EMX500, RY4S UE and Datura X. The Vido's, and then the EMX500's were both revelations when I first got them, so I suppose they are no brainers.
> 
> At this point for me, the other no brainers are:
> RY4S UE
> ...


just got myself a pair of emx500 with mmcx connector since you said they are no-brainer. they truly are no-brainer indeed. the bass omg. i love these. they do look weird though with my cable


----------



## krunchcrispy

Hey Folks, anyone know how to open up the NiceHCK ME80 shell? I got mine and the left bud was crackly and goingin in and out; if I moved the wire around the sound would come, but then leave again.  I 'burned' them for 20 hours and they were beginning to sound quite good (natural with depth and height to the stage) so I would like to keep them.  The NICEHCK store said they would send me a new pair but I would have to pay for shipping.  But if I can open these up I could solder it back on myself.


----------



## Jsingh4

Hi Guys how good are Moondrop Shiro Yuki compared to Fengru (Silver) TC 200, I am thinking of getting one of them


----------



## HungryPanda

All I can say is I prefer the Shiro Yuki as it sounds more balanced to me


----------



## Jsingh4

And 


HungryPanda said:


> All I can say is I prefer the Shiro Yuki as it sounds more balanced to me


And how is the imaging and stage


----------



## HungryPanda

I find it to have a decent sound stage and imaging is rather good


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 4, 2019)

wskl said:


> Someone did have both but I can't find the post.  From memory, the HI was less bassy and more detailed than the UE version.  I had also messaged the seller previously about the differences, he said UE has copper cable and HI is using SPC cable.


Considering the UE is not very bassy to begin with (tight and punchy enough but definately not a bassy earbud in stock), I think I'd find the HI version too bass light. But maybe the difference is very subtle.

@Alex.Grimm  that's interesting. Do both the standard RY4S and the UE/HI version come with tuning 'horseshoe' in the shell?

If so then I guess the stock RY4S is more dampened and less bassy than the other versions.

Or does that small tuning filter replace the normal horseshoe foam found in most mx500 earbuds?


----------



## BrunoC

The HI is certainly not bass light.
Actually I have both the UE and HI versions and I struggle to find any difference is sound (from memory).  I would need to A/B them to confirm this.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Okay, So finally am sitting here listening to the ME80. No foams. These things are Female vocals monsters. Very natural. Very forward. I personally like very forward female vocals. Bass is good on these. Not heavy and not light either. Basslines are right where they should be and kicks are clearly audible. Maybe one day I will get to listening to some men sing some stuff, but right now The great Nina Simone has got a spell on me.

Source is Fiio M11, High Gain, Vol 60


----------



## mbwilson111

Jsingh4 said:


> Hi Guys how good are Moondrop Shiro Yuki compared to Fengru (Silver) TC 200, I am thinking of getting one of them



For me, the Shiro Yuki is a beautiful balanced bud.  A good all-rounder.   I have not listened to the Silver.


----------



## mbwilson111

cyh03176 said:


> just got myself a pair of emx500 with mmcx connector since you said they are no-brainer. they truly are no-brainer indeed. the bass omg. i love these. they do look weird though with my cable




It looks nice.

Are yours the same as ours?  The ones from this link?  I have the Silver color and Panda has the red.  I have not decided if mine have enough bass.  His seemed to have a little more when he compared them.  Now that they have burned in awhile I will listen more and edit this post to comment on that.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33015623626.html

Maybe I will compare my MX500 MMCX to my RY4S MMCX Plus if I have some time.  Busy day.  Next week I will have more time for listening.  I do already think that my RY4S Plus sounds amazing.

I kind of like the way my cables look with both but I do wish the MMCX connector did not stick out so far.

The MX500 MMCX   I think that is a BGVP cable that came with a BGVP bud that now has a balanced cable on it.






and the RY4S MMCX Plus  (I did show another photo of it with my Cayin N3 a few pages back)


----------



## waynes world

GREQ said:


> Isn't Sabia V6 out of production now?
> On the last batch of V6 from the ebay seller there was a note in the description "see you on the V7" (or something similar to that effect).



Why are you always clouding the issues with facts? Just kidding - you are quite correct. I will edit my post to reflect that.



seanc6441 said:


> Considering the UE is not very bassy to begin with (tight and punchy enough but definately not a bassy earbud in stock),



Huh! I'll have to find them and give them a listen, but I always thought the UE's had ample bass, enough to slide into my opinion of bassy.



BrunoC said:


> The HI is certainly not bass light.
> Actually I have both the UE and HI versions and I struggle to find any difference is sound (from memory).  I would need to A/B them to confirm this.



Ah, so we are confirming that Sean is smoking something good (just kidding Sean!)



BadReligionPunk said:


> Okay, So finally am sitting here listening to the ME80. No foams. These things are Female vocals monsters. Very natural. Very forward. I personally like very forward female vocals. Bass is good on these. Not heavy and not light either. Basslines are right where they should be and kicks are clearly audible. Maybe one day I will get to listening to some men sing some stuff, but right now The great Nina Simone has got a spell on me.
> 
> Source is Fiio M11, High Gain, Vol 60



Now this is why I allow others to do the describing for me! Nice description.



mbwilson111 said:


> For me, the Shiro Yuki is a beautiful balanced bud.  A good all-rounder.   I have not listened to the Silver.



Keep talking like that, and the Shiro's will be sitting in my cart mocking me!


----------



## krunchcrispy

krunchcrispy said:


> Hey Folks, anyone know how to open up the NiceHCK ME80 shell? I got mine and the left bud was crackly and goingin in and out; if I moved the wire around the sound would come, but then leave again.  I 'burned' them for 20 hours and they were beginning to sound quite good (natural with depth and height to the stage) so I would like to keep them.  The NICEHCK store said they would send me a new pair but I would have to pay for shipping.  But if I can open these up I could solder it back on myself.


Just another shout out -- anyone know how to open up the earbuds with thin stems and metal housings? Probably not, but just checking.


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Keep talking like that, and the Shiro's will be sitting in my cart mocking me!



No that is wrong.  They need to pass quickly through your cart and on their way to you.  No sitting.  They come in a cool tin container...



waynes world said:


> Huh! I'll have to find them and give them a listen, but I always thought the UE's had ample bass, enough to slide into my opinion of bassy.



That is what I was thinking...ample bass.   I guess I will have to get mine out and listen to them along with the MMCX Plus and the MX500 MMCX.... bass wars.  I do not think the bass overpowesr everything else nor would I want it too.


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> No that is wrong.  They need to pass quickly through your cart and on their way to you.  No sitting.  They come in a cool tin container...



Why did I know that you were going to say that?!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

So I ventured into some hip hop and reggae with the ME80 and it just didn't cut the mustard. Too rolled off. If bass heavy music is your primary genres, I would probably steer clear. Not too exciting. 

However Karen Carpenter, Haley Reinhardt, Dolores O'Riordan ect sound fantastic. Loving Jazz now. Stage and separation are pretty good. Timbre good. Very natural. A very LIVE quality to the over all sound. $10 huh? That's pretty stupid if you think about it. They look great, and this cable is nice for a 2 core cable. Wears good and rolls up nicely.


----------



## Jsingh4

mbwilson111 said:


> For me, the Shiro Yuki is a beautiful balanced bud.  A good all-rounder.   I have not listened to the Silver.


Ok then Shiro Yuki it is


----------



## waynes world

BadReligionPunk said:


> So I ventured into some hip hop and reggae with the ME80 and it just didn't cut the mustard. Too rolled off. If bass heavy music is your primary genres, I would probably steer clear. Not too exciting.
> 
> However Karen Carpenter, Haley Reinhardt, Dolores O'Riordan ect sound fantastic. Loving Jazz now. Stage and separation are pretty good. Timbre good. Very natural. A very LIVE quality to the over all sound. $10 huh? That's pretty stupid if you think about it. They look great, and this cable is nice for a 2 core cable. Wears good and rolls up nicely.



Which buds do you prefer for bass heavy genres?


----------



## lllandline (Jul 4, 2019)

Some words about Nicehck ME80:
1) Soundstage is meh, kinda gets to sides of your ears, but feels forced, like if sound was just pushed from the center to the sides of your head. nearly all my IEMs have better (can't say bigger - IEMs will always sound like something inside your head without an exquisite amount of dsp's and equalizing) stage. Examples: KZ ZS6, MDR EX800ST, HIFIBOY OS V3.
2) Awful treble and mid peaks.
3) No bass below 50hZ, pressing them against the ear reveals boomy, trash low-frequencies.
4) Resolution in treble is... there?. Yeah, it doesn't really help.
5) Good build quality, they do look good.

I can describe their sound as cheap. They do provide sound, that is all.

A pair of 8$ Sennheiser MX170's sounds a lot better. Please don't buy them, as they still sound like cheap earbuds, I'm pretty sure you have something better in your collection.
About burn-in - it never happened to any of my dynamic IEM's. They may change the sound for me, but that's purely psychological, my sound perception changes several times throughout the day, which clearly shows when I'm listening to KZ ZS6 or MDR EX800ST.
Wasted 10$, bought them just for fun, and they didn't disappoint - they are just as bad as I thought. Same goes to **** PT15, only thing is: I expected a lot more from them after reading some reviews.
Good things won't be sold as cat-in-the-bag.


----------



## mbwilson111

Well, someone sure likes to stir the pot.  Not many posts... no info in the profile...


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 4, 2019)

lllandline said:


> Some words about Nicehck ME80:
> 3) No bass below 50hZ, pressing them against the ear reveals boomy, trash low-frequencies.


Don't know why I am replying to this post as it seems a bit "fishy" however, did you happen to test your earbuds via a Frequency Response ( https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php ) to make certain that they are not damaged by chance?

My ME80s clearly produce strong bass starting at 20Hz, no problem... also, earbuds are not designed nor engineered to be pressed against the ear (into the ear canal) like IEMs. Comparing earbuds to iems is like comparing apples to oranges or in this case closed-backs (iems) to open-backs (earbuds).


----------



## lllandline

mbwilson111 said:


> Well, someone sure likes to stir the pot.  Not many posts... no info in the profile...


which tells you absolutely nothing, 
Can read my reviews, tho.
Just drilled two bigger holes through ME80's, overall SQ improved a bit, they became a bit more listenable, so now they sound like a pair of 12$ earbuds, hehehe
I want to ask you one simple thing: why do you expect me to be some double-agent, while also expecting 10$ earbud with a tiny compensating hole to sound better than what I've just described?


----------



## cyh03176 (Jul 4, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> It looks nice.
> 
> Are yours the same as ours?  The ones from this link?  I have the Silver color and Panda has the red.  I have not decided if mine have enough bass.  His seemed to have a little more when he compared them.  Now that they have burned in awhile I will listen more and edit this post to comment on that.
> 
> ...


i don't think so. i bought them from a local reseller and i think she got it from CKLewis since other products seem to be from CKLewis.

and the fact that you think ME80 and Shiroyuki has enough bass and you are saying that you have not decide if your MX500 has enough bass definitely meant that we have different earbuds. mine are very bassy and definitely at least 3 times more bassy than ME80. I am using TRN T2 16 core cable on them now haha.


----------



## cyh03176

lllandline said:


> which tells you absolutely nothing,
> Can read my reviews, tho.
> Just drilled two bigger holes through ME80's, overall SQ improved a bit, they became a bit more listenable, so now they sound like a pair of 12$ earbuds, hehehe
> I want to ask you one simple thing: why do you expect me to be some double-agent, while also expecting 10$ earbud with a tiny compensating hole to sound better than what I've just described?


where's the tiny compensating hole?


----------



## mbwilson111

lllandline said:


> while also expecting 10$ earbud with a tiny compensating hole to sound better than what I've just described?



Because mine do not sound like you described.


----------



## lllandline (Jul 4, 2019)

cyh03176 said:


> where's the tiny compensating hole?



On the back, I drilled through them using a replaceable screwdriver's head as a drill. It is actually strange that these holes where so small.







mbwilson111 said:


> Because mine do not sound like you described.



I remember someone saying in this exact thread that the bass is weak, while trying to cope with it talking about burn-in. That is like a classical, step-by-step scene that repeats itself every time someone receives bad earphones.
I listen to earphones on pretty high volumes, maybe that's the reason we're not hearing the same.
Because I'm not sure if it's possible to wire single-driver earbud out of phase.


----------



## mbwilson111

cyh03176 said:


> i don't think so. i bought them from a local reseller and i think she got it from CKLewis since other products seem to be from CKLewis.
> 
> and the fact that you think ME80 and Shiroyuki has enough bass and you are saying that you have not decide if your MX500 has enough bass definitely meant that we have different earbuds. mine are very bassy and definitely at least 3 times more bassy than ME80. I am using TRN T2 16 core cable on them now haha.



Maybe we will have to get the ones from CK Lewis and compare... although the descriptions are the same and even the color choices are the same.


----------



## cyh03176

mbwilson111 said:


> Maybe we will have to get the ones from CK Lewis and compare... although the descriptions are the same and even the color choices are the same.


let me double confirm with my local reseller first.


lllandline said:


> On the back, I drilled through them using a replaceable screwdriver's head as a drill. It is actually strange that these holes where so small.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


that was me. i said that it was bass light, but burn in does help a little bit.


----------



## mbwilson111

lllandline said:


> listen to earphones on pretty high volumes, maybe that's the reason we're not hearing the same.
> Because I'm not sure if it's possible to wire single-driver earbud out of phase.



I enjoy my music at low volume.   

Of course they can be wired out of phase... there are two wires going to each driver.   Reverse the postive and negative on one and they are out of phase.   We have received a few that were out of phase.   Had to open one side and reverse the wires which of course means you need to be handy with a soldering iron.  It is pretty easy to kill the driver .


----------



## BadReligionPunk

waynes world said:


> Which buds do you prefer for bass heavy genres?



Well I don't have a lot of earbuds, but of the ones I do either EMX500 or VUNBUD/Sabia v6 mmcx.


----------



## DBaldock9

mbwilson111 said:


> Probably.  I bought my first bud two years ago. A Monk.
> 
> Now...I have...a few more...



Aside from a Sony Discman (long gone), Sony folding headphones (long gone), and Panasonic EAH-Z31 earbuds (still have them), that I bought in 1988, all of my portable audio gear [ https://www.head-fi.org/members/dbaldock9.451728/ ] has been purchased since the Summer of 2016.


----------



## Willber

DBaldock9 said:


> ... all of my portable audio gear ... has been purchased since the Summer of 2016.


Same here! It started with the Piston 3 IEM and then on to earbuds after I tried the Monk+ (both long-since retired). I ventured out into larger forms for a while but I'm back to stay with buds.


----------



## waynes world

lllandline said:


> Some words about Nicehck ME80:
> 1) Soundstage is meh, kinda gets to sides of your ears, but feels forced, like if sound was just pushed from the center to the sides of your head. nearly all my IEMs have better (can't say bigger - IEMs will always sound like something inside your head without an exquisite amount of dsp's and equalizing) stage. Examples: KZ ZS6, MDR EX800ST, HIFIBOY OS V3.
> 2) Awful treble and mid peaks.
> 3) No bass below 50hZ, pressing them against the ear reveals boomy, trash low-frequencies.
> ...



The soundstage is wide, but doesn't feel forced to me. I don't hear any awful treble or mid peaks, and the bass seems quite adequate to me.

So either our ears hear quite differently, or else the ME80's that we have sound quite different (ie possibly yours are defective).


----------



## lllandline

waynes world said:


> The soundstage is wide, but doesn't feel forced to me. I don't hear any awful treble or mid peaks, and the bass seems quite adequate to me.
> 
> So either our ears hear quite differently, or else the ME80's that we have sound quite different (ie possibly yours are defective).



In that case, I don't want to, but I really have to recommend you Sennheiser MX170. 
I have a problem with them starting to crack when I crank up the bass on high-volumes, but if you guys don't listen to earbuds that loud - you may find them stunning, in a way.
They have unique-sounding tuning of being bright and kinda dynamic, they bring a lot of coloring to the sound, without sounding bad. They have fairly good treble extension and bold (for earbuds) bass.
Soundstage is better than the one you can find listening to ME80, though not a lot better than PT15's soundstage.
P.S. Yes, I've drilled a bigger vent through PT15's as well, they have more body now, bass included. It is essential for things that move a lot of air to have enough air intake.


----------



## waynes world

lllandline said:


> In that case, I don't want to, but I really have to recommend you Sennheiser MX170.
> I have a problem with them starting to crack when I crank up the bass on high-volumes, but if you guys don't listen to earbuds that loud - you may find them stunning, in a way.
> They have unique-sounding tuning of being bright and kinda dynamic, they bring a lot of coloring to the sound, without sounding bad. They have fairly good treble extension and bold (for earbuds) bass.



I'm not really into bright signatures. For example, the PT15's are a bit bass light and treble happy for my preferences. But I'll look into those MX170's a bit.



> Soundstage is better than the one you can find listening to ME80, though not a lot better than PT15's soundstage.
> P.S. Yes, I've drilled a bigger vent through PT15's as well, they have more body now, bass included. It is essential for things that move a lot of air to have enough air intake.



I can understand feeling the need to do that to the PT15's, but not for the ME80's.


----------



## lllandline

waynes world said:


> I'm not really into bright signatures. For example, the PT15's are a bit bass light and treble happy for my preferences. But I'll look into those MX170's a bit.
> 
> 
> 
> I can understand feeling the need to do that to the PT15's, but not for the ME80's.



Well, I'll pretend to believe in burn-in for several days, they are too beautiful for me to just stop using them.
I have long and wide ear canals, and my ear shape can just kill earbud bass, maybe that is what happens.
As of now, they've been locked with harsh-noise records on high volume for several hours and I don't hear that much of mid-treble harshness anymore. Express burn-in, anyone?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jul 4, 2019)

lllandline said:


> As of now, they've been locked with harsh-noise records on high volume for several hours and I don't hear that much of mid-treble harshness anymore. Express burn-in, anyone?



Most manufacturers recommend normal listening volume for burn in.

Seems you might not be getting a proper seal.  Have you tried donut foams on top of the full foams?

I  burned mine in for 3 or 4 days attached to my desktop dac/amp playing music from my PC.  Listening when I was at my desk.


----------



## chinmie

hmmm.. this topic about the ME80 just got intriguing.. mine has arrived in my country, but I'm still on vacation abroad, so i can only wait to the 13th of July when i return home


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> hmmm.. this topic about the ME80 just got intriguing.. mine has arrived in my country, but I'm still on vacation abroad, so i can only wait to the 13th of July when i return home



I hope you have someone to take delivery for you.

Where are you vacationing?


----------



## lllandline

mbwilson111 said:


> Most manufacturers recommend normal listening volume.
> 
> Seems you might not be getting a proper seal.  Have you tried donut foams on top of the full foams?
> 
> I  burned mine in for 3 or 4 days attached to my desktop dac/amp playing music from my PC.  Listening when I was at my desk.



My listening levels aren't defeaning, however they are higher than my everyday environment. I like to lose myself in sound.
Right now I'm listening to them for an hour and, ah, for 10 dollars they are on-par with several 30-40 dollar earphones I've owned. Which, in some way, were on-par with some even pricier earphones.
If burning-in is about flexing the driver, than high volumes and highly dynamic tracks are the fastest way to do it. Driver can't damage itself with enough compensation, also I've connected ME80's to phone's output, so nothing scary.
Yes, I am definitely not getting proper seal. Guess I'll just buн some accessories from Ali.
This is getting interesting...


----------



## mbwilson111

lllandline said:


> My listening levels aren't defeaning, however they are higher than my everyday environment. I like to lose myself in sound.
> Right now I'm listening to them for an hour and, ah, for 10 dollars they are on-par with several 30-40 dollar earphones I've owned. Which, in some way, were on-par with some even pricier earphones.
> If burning-in is about flexing the driver, than high volumes and highly dynamic tracks are the fastest way to do it. Driver can't damage itself with enough compensation, also I've connected ME80's to phone's output, so nothing scary.
> Yes, I am definitely not getting proper seal. Guess I'll just buн some accessories from Ali.
> This is getting interesting...



Foams and donuts came with them.


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> I hope you have someone to take delivery for you.
> 
> Where are you vacationing?



yes, luckily there are  . 
I'm in japan with my wife and son right now


----------



## cyh03176

mbwilson111 said:


> Maybe we will have to get the ones from CK Lewis and compare... although the descriptions are the same and even the color choices are the same.


my local reseller got it from taobao lol

but according to badreligionpunk's previous comment, emx500 should be bass heavy which conforms with mine


----------



## mbwilson111

cyh03176 said:


> my local reseller got it from taobao lol
> 
> but according to badreligionpunk's previous comment, emx500 should be bass heavy which conforms with mine



I know.


----------



## lllandline

mbwilson111 said:


> Foams and donuts came with them.


Of course I've already tried them. From my experience with MX170 I know that foams are necessary.
Right now I'm using a pair of foams, and they are still playing. Bass have started to show a bit more, in total they have about 5 hours of play time.
I still consider buying rubber rings with fins, because the fit is kinda loose.


----------



## groucho69

lllandline said:


> Well, I'll pretend to believe in burn-in for several days, they are too beautiful for me to just stop using them.
> I have long and wide ear canals, and my ear shape can just kill earbud bass, maybe that is what happens.
> As of now, they've been locked with harsh-noise records on high volume for several hours and I don't hear that much of mid-treble harshness anymore. Express burn-in, anyone?



Keep listening at high volume and the only thing you'll be saying is, "can you repeat that?"


----------



## lllandline

groucho69 said:


> Keep listening at high volume and the only thing you'll be saying is, "can you repeat that?"


Oh, of course they weren't in my ears. I'm everything-sensitive, while also loud-music lover. That's why nearly all earphones are too sibilant for me. I hear imperfections in sound too much, hence the strongly negative initial impression. I always use EQ, but they were unfixable in the beginning.


----------



## chinmie

groucho69 said:


> Keep listening at high volume and the only thing you'll be saying is, "can you repeat that?"



for an audio lover who can already hear the mild ringing, ever so reminding that hearing degradation is coming, your scenarios is the stuff of nightmare, and the worse part is that it's realistically true. 
i have a friend who's younger than me and often meet on audio gathering. he listens waaay loud. i used to jump and cringe when i tested his DAP without adjusting the volume. now it's always a habit for me the turn the volume down to zero first whenever i try other people's gear.

and that friend of mine, he talks really loud, and i usually have to speak twice for him to listen.


----------



## mbwilson111

lllandline said:


> Of course I've already tried them. From my experience with MX170 I know that foams are necessary.
> Right now I'm using a pair of foams, and they are still playing. Bass have started to show a bit more, in total they have about 5 hours of play time.
> I still consider buying rubber rings with fins, because the fit is kinda loose.



Try the donut foams on top of the regular foams.


----------



## groucho69

lllandline said:


> Oh, of course they weren't in my ears. I'm everything-sensitive, while also loud-music lover. That's why nearly all earphones are too sibilant for me. I hear imperfections in sound too much, hence the strongly negative initial impression. I always use EQ, but they were unfixable in the beginning.



Um ya, why would they be in your ears????? The more you write the less believable you become.


----------



## lllandline

mbwilson111 said:


> Try the donut foams on top of the regular foams.



It suddenly helped considerably.



groucho69 said:


> Um ya, why would they be in your ears????? The more you write the less believable you become.



Eh, don't be so paranoid, no one wants a piece of you in some earbud thread.


----------



## groucho69

It's not paranoia if THEY are after you.


----------



## cyh03176

chill and listen to earbuds.

i am on a 4 hours bus journey now.


----------



## waynes world

lllandline said:


> It suddenly helped considerably.



You didn't have a proper seal then. The ME80's fit my ears very nicely with a great seal, and that definitely is key.

Regarding burn in, I have experienced it for some gear and not other gear (and it wasn't just burn brain in). But the ME80's sounded great to me out of the box.


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> Why are you always clouding the issues with facts? Just kidding - you are quite correct. I will edit my post to reflect that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The UE has good quality bass (tight and punchy, no bleed into the mids, acceptable extension) but I always felt it was a little lacking compared to say, kube V1, WS MK2 etc. Yes those are bassy earbuds, but nonetheless the RY4S was considered top dog at it's price point. So I was being critical of it's performance.

But if you bass port the RY4S UE (a very small port not to overdo it). You get a nice boost in punch and some extra depth, still it doesn't bleed into the mids.

Sadly it does emphasis the biggest flaw of the RY4S UE to my ears which is a dip in the lower vocal range relative to 1-3khz (so there's a tendancy for the vocals to be a bit agressive and mids are a little rougher). I wouldn't call it overly lean as it's not a suck out, just a small dip, which gets more noticable if you boost the bass with the bass port mod.

Maybe extensive burn in and/or a cable swap would help tame that midrange, i haven't tried any of that though.

Maybe I should!


----------



## ValSilva

cyh03176 said:


> chill and listen to earbuds.
> 
> i am on a 4 hours bus journey now.



Are you on vacation too, like chinmie? Enjoy the music


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Jul 4, 2019)

lllandline said:


> Oh, of course they weren't in my ears. I'm everything-sensitive, while also loud-music lover. That's why nearly all earphones are too sibilant for me. I hear imperfections in sound too much, hence the strongly negative initial impression. I always use EQ, but they were unfixable in the beginning.



Whats your source?

These things sound like phenomenal for female vocals jazz and pop. Was even listening to old college rock stuff and they come off so natural and clean its ridiculous that they are only $10. Anyway I believe these things have a bit of oomph at 80-100hz but roll off after that. Bass heavy stuff is a bit boring IMO. Everything else stays flat until 7-8k. If you are treble sensitive its probably the 8k peak. I personally don't hear any sibilance and I feel that female vocals are clean and very intimate with nice breathiness(whatever that means). Good airy treble that's a bit lively. That's with no foams and using Fiio M11 high gain, med volume.

That said I put on a pair of Heigi donut foams and it completely obliterated the sound. Bass became too boomy and the vocals were pushed back quite a ways. Pushing the earbuds into my ear and turning them towards my ear canal resulted in some very bass light, mids honkish, type bright sound. Very similar to what you described if I am correctly decoding the Full bore hyperbolic sentiments you displayed. Now Im in the hunt for the right foam, which actually might be no foam. However I am trying to keep the close intimate vocals with just a little bit more low end.

Open to suggestions if anybody has some. Have hundreds of foams. I have just about everything but those thin AE foams.

Hope you get to liking them, but if not, atleast it was only $10 right? I have/had $200-$300 iems that didn't/don't thrill me.


----------



## waynes world

BadReligionPunk said:


> Very similar to what you described if I am correctly decoding the Full bore hyperbolic sentiments you displayed.



Lol! It was _slightly _hyperbolic, wasn't it.


----------



## Zerohour88

krunchcrispy said:


> Hey Folks, anyone know how to open up the NiceHCK ME80 shell? I got mine and the left bud was crackly and goingin in and out; if I moved the wire around the sound would come, but then leave again.   The NICEHCK store said they would send me a new pair but I would have to pay for shipping.  But if I can open these up I could solder it back on myself.



have you try sucking/blowing on the driver itself? sounds a bit weird but sometimes it works. Otherwise shipping from china is usually super cheap, so I'd go for that, if you really want the replacement.


----------



## cyh03176

ValSilva said:


> Are you on vacation too, like chinmie? Enjoy the music


nah going to attend a workshop tomorrow then i can truly kick start my dream career


----------



## HungryPanda

The ME-80 is sure one of the most crucial fitment earbuds I have ever owned. But when you get it right they sound great.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Jul 5, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> The ME-80 is sure one of the most crucial fitment earbuds I have ever owned. But when you get it right they sound great.



I tried to listen to the ME80, but I could not love their sound. These earbuds are suitable for lovers of light music, something like acoustics or vocal. With heavy genres, they cope very badly. And it have almost no bass.


----------



## krunchcrispy

Zerohour88 said:


> have you try sucking/blowing on the driver itself? sounds a bit weird but sometimes it works. Otherwise shipping from china is usually super cheap, so I'd go for that, if you really want the replacement.


Thanks -- forgot about the airflow bit, will try it. Still seems like a poorly soldered wire.  Yeah, the replacement isnt that expensive, but it would be nice to fix this one.  I was beginning to rely enjoy this bud -- at first, it sounded thin and dull, but after overnight of 'burn in', some nice timber and soundstage was beginning to emerge.  Thanks again!


----------



## Jsingh4

So guys I know it's not an amp thread but since everybody is here I would like to know which portable amp wil be best for Earbuds in 99usd

I am thinking between Radsone ES100 and Little Bear B4-X
(Sound Quality and Portability both matters to me)

Which one do you think will be the best.

Thanks


----------



## seanc6441

Jsingh4 said:


> So guys I know it's not an amp thread but since everybody is here I would like to know which portable amp wil be best for Earbuds in 99usd
> 
> I am thinking between Radsone ES100 and Little Bear B4-X
> (Sound Quality and Portability both matters to me)
> ...


What are you using currently?


----------



## Jsingh4 (Jul 5, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> What are you using currently?


This is going to be my first Amp and I am using my android phone no DAP.


----------



## chinmie

Jsingh4 said:


> So guys I know it's not an amp thread but since everybody is here I would like to know which portable amp wil be best for Earbuds in 99usd
> 
> I am thinking between Radsone ES100 and Little Bear B4-X
> (Sound Quality and Portability both matters to me)
> ...


 es100 is a safe choice. lots of power, neutral sound, and great app


----------



## golov17

Jsingh4 said:


> This is going to be my first Amp and I am using my android phone no DAP.


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tem...ts-Bluetooth-LDAC-IN-OUT-for/32996995824.html


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 5, 2019)

Jsingh4 said:


> Nothing, this is going to be my first Amp and I am using my android phone no DAP and would like to use phone only


Why not just buy the es100 and use it's balanced output to drive your earbuds.

People have been using the ES100 to driver portable headphones, it can handle earbuds too.

Unless you are considering buying some low sensitivity earbuds, I think the es100 could handle all the earbuds we use in this thread. But ask es100 owners here to confirm.


----------



## irv003

seanc6441 said:


> Why not just buy the es100 and use it's balanced output to drive your earbuds.
> 
> People have been using the ES100 to driver portable headphones, it can handle earbuds too.
> 
> Unless you are considering buying some low sensitivity earbuds, I think the es100 could handle all the earbuds we use in this thread. But ask es100 owners here to confirm.


+1 to this


----------



## seanc6441

chinmie said:


> es100 is a safe choice. lots of power, neutral sound, and great app


There you have it, no point in adding to the chain to power sensitive earbuds when es100 has a balanced output and the app even has a built in EQ, if you felt like boosting the bass or whatever.

I'd have bought an es100 if I wasn't content with LG v30 to drive my earbuds.


----------



## irv003

airman180 vented


----------



## seanc6441

irv003 said:


> airman180 vented


Nice I commented on your post on facebook EA group!

Is that interconnect from VE? Looks like the Zen cable.

Nobody mentions airman earbuds here, I've heard they have good bass impact? What's your impressions of this earbud if you don't mind sharing?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

waynes world said:


> Lol! It was _slightly _hyperbolic, wasn't it.


 Eh. I'm guilty of it too sometimes. I personally find it pretty funny and have to watch myself from purposefully doing it too, as it usually doesn't translate well to type. What I get from it though is that he didn't like them very much. HAHA!


----------



## Alex.Grimm

chinmie said:


> es100 is a safe choice. lots of power, neutral sound, and great app



ES100 better than HiBy W5?


----------



## irv003

seanc6441 said:


> Nice I commented on your post on facebook EA group!
> 
> Is that interconnect from VE? Looks like the Zen cable.


yup its the IC from VE, same cable with zen / zen lite


----------



## Jsingh4

seanc6441 said:


> Why not just buy the es100 and use it's balanced output to drive your earbuds.
> 
> People have been using the ES100 to driver portable headphones, it can handle earbuds too.
> 
> Unless you are considering buying some low sensitivity earbuds, I think the es100 could handle all the earbuds we use in this thread. But ask es100 owners here to confirm.



Thanks so ES100 it is.



golov17 said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tem...ts-Bluetooth-LDAC-IN-OUT-for/32996995824.html



Thanks but I was thinking of something with balanced output, but it sure is something.


----------



## irv003

seanc6441 said:


> Nice I commented on your post on facebook EA group!
> 
> Is that interconnect from VE? Looks like the Zen cable.
> 
> Nobody mentions airman earbuds here, I've heard they have good bass impact? What's your impressions of this earbud if you don't mind sharing?



SQ is "headphone-like / near-headphone-like". fullsounding-warmish but with great extensions both sides and mids is good, little airy but its like less Ushaped.

180 ohms alloy driver, needs power but not hard to drive


----------



## chinmie

Alex.Grimm said:


> ES100 better than HiBy W5?



personally, when talking about functionality, I'd take the ES100. the W5 also sounds good, with a more slightly boosted bass and treble, making the sound bigger and more exciting. but that touch button really annoys me. i hope they fix it with firmware update


----------



## cyh03176

Jsingh4 said:


> Thanks so ES100 it is.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks but I was thinking of something with balanced output, but it sure is something.


if you want balanced output you can consider ibasso dc01 as well


----------



## waynes world

Jsingh4 said:


> Thanks so ES100 it is.



Can't go wrong with that choice. It is great.


----------



## rkw

Jsingh4 said:


> So guys I know it's not an amp thread but since everybody is here I would like to know which portable amp wil be best for Earbuds in 99usd
> 
> I am thinking between Radsone ES100 and Little Bear B4-X
> (Sound Quality and Portability both matters to me)


The Little Bear is an oddity — a vacuum tube portable amp. I have to wonder about battery life and tube longevity. I have the ES100 and recommend it. Another option is the FiiO BTR3 (more premium build quality than the ES100, but no balanced output).



golov17 said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tem...ts-Bluetooth-LDAC-IN-OUT-for/32996995824.html


An interesting product I haven't seen before! However, it is a digital-only device and he is looking for an amp to plug in earbuds.


----------



## DBaldock9

Willber said:


> Same here! It started with the Piston 3 IEM and then on to earbuds after I tried the Monk+ (both long-since retired). I ventured out into larger forms for a while but I'm back to stay with buds.



I had bought some Beyerdynamic DT-831 headphones in 2001 or 2002, to use with the PA system at Church, and to provide isolated TV listening for my Dad (when my parents were visiting).
When I modified my A/V & PC audio setup in the Summer of 2016, I bought a iFi Micro iDSD to drive my headphones, and provide Line Out for some small powered Monitors and a Subwoofer. 

Then, I started with all of the other portable audio stuff, in the Fall of 2016.


----------



## HungryPanda

The First iems I ever bought were Unique Melody Miracle ciem and then the floodgates opened, I only ever had a few pairs of heaphones before that


----------



## macky112

I am listening to my Sony E808+ and am really enjoying it's bass, but I can no longer find them onsale anywhere online, does anyone know where I can buy a back up pair?
Also, can someone with the Fengru silvers compare with the E808+?

TIA


----------



## mbwilson111

macky112 said:


> I am listening to my Sony E808+ and am really enjoying it's bass, but I can no longer find them onsale anywhere online, does anyone know where I can buy a back up pair?
> Also, can someone with the Fengru silvers compare with the E808+?
> 
> TIA



I just looked on ebay where I got mine last year and the vendor no longer has them.  Some sellers have the 808 but no 808+

I have no spare either.  Maybe they will last forever?


----------



## groucho69

DBaldock9 said:


> I had bought some Beyerdynamic DT-831 headphones in 2001 or 2002, to use with the PA system at Church, and to provide isolated TV listening for my Dad (when my parents were visiting).
> When I modified my A/V & PC audio setup in the Summer of 2016, I bought a iFi Micro iDSD to drive my headphones, and provide Line Out for some small powered Monitors and a Subwoofer.
> 
> Then, I started with all of the other portable audio stuff, in the Fall of 2016.



I think we all wish our greatest sympathies for your wallet.


----------



## Willber

HungryPanda said:


> The First iems I ever bought were Unique Melody Miracle ciem


Crikey, that's an expensive way to start a hobby.


----------



## crtninja

I've avoided this thread since I bought the ME80 lucky bag, so I wasn't going to be spoiled.
First, they were supposed to be here Tuesday, but somehow the package went from my correct post office to one town over, which I have no idea how that happened.
Then, 4th of July, and now they are here.
Used them for an hour so far, and these might be the most technically sound earbuds, IEM, or cans I own currently.
A bit sub-bass shy, great soundstage, detail, and imaging.
Everything sounds tight and accurate.
Handles all my metal (Djent, Technical Death, Progressive) I throw at it.
These are the first 'buds I own that isn't the MX500 shell, and the ME80 is very comfortable.
Very impressive and I'm happy.


----------



## rkw

mbwilson111 said:


> I have no spare either.  Maybe they will last forever?


When you own enough earbuds, you can make all of them last forever if you make a point of cycling through all of your earbuds.


----------



## mbwilson111

rkw said:


> When you own enough earbuds, you can make all of them last forever if you make a point of cycling through all of your earbuds.



That's the plan.


----------



## macky112

mbwilson111 said:


> I just looked on ebay where I got mine last year and the vendor no longer has them.  Some sellers have the 808 but no 808+
> 
> I have no spare either.  Maybe they will last forever?



Thank you for the reply

I read the SHE3800 also has big bass, so I will give that a try


----------



## golov17

rkw said:


> The Little Bear is an oddity — a vacuum tube portable amp. I have to wonder about battery life and tube longevity. I have the ES100 and recommend it. Another option is the FiiO BTR3 (more premium build quality than the ES100, but no balanced output).
> 
> 
> An interesting product I haven't seen before! However, it is a digital-only device and he is looking for an amp to plug in earbuds.


Sorry
TempoTec Sonata iDSD Plus USB Portable DAC Support WIN MacOSX Android iPHONE True Blance Dual DAC Headphone Amplifier DSD HIFI 
http://s.aliexpress.com/ZJNvMFJJ


----------



## Jsingh4 (Jul 5, 2019)

golov17 said:


> Sorry
> TempoTec Sonata iDSD Plus USB Portable DAC Support WIN MacOSX Android iPHONE True Blance Dual DAC Headphone Amplifier DSD HIFI
> http://s.aliexpress.com/ZJNvMFJJ


Actually I am considering this as an option as well thank you.
Although do you Know how good are they ?


----------



## DBaldock9

Jsingh4 said:


> So guys I know it's not an amp thread but since everybody is here I would like to know which portable amp wil be best for Earbuds in 99usd
> 
> I am thinking between Radsone ES100 and Little Bear B4-X
> (Sound Quality and Portability both matters to me)
> ...





rkw said:


> The Little Bear is an oddity — a vacuum tube portable amp. I have to wonder about battery life and tube longevity. I have the ES100 and recommend it. Another option is the FiiO BTR3 (more premium build quality than the ES100, but no balanced output).
> 
> 
> An interesting product I haven't seen before! However, it is a digital-only device and he is looking for an amp to plug in earbuds.



I have both the ES100 and the B4-X - and they're designed for completely different functions.
The ES100 can operate as a USB or Bluetooth DAC / Amp, with Single-Ended & Balanced Outputs, but without an analog Input.
The B4-X is an analog only amplifier - with Single-Ended Input, and Single-Ended & Balanced Outputs.
The Raytheon 5899 Tube in the B4-X is a special quality version of the EF731 miniature RF pentode, first available in 1958.
When the B4-X is bumped, the 5899 does produce a ringing that's audible in the earbuds.
There are a number of vendors on eBay that sell matched pairs of the 5899 tube.

The ES100 runs about 7 - 8 hours on a charge as a BT Amp.
The B4-X runs about 4 - 6 hours, depending on which op-amps you're using.
While the ES100 can be used while it's being charged (as a USB or BT DAC), when the charger is plugged into the B4-X, the Amp shuts off.


----------



## ounwx

Bit on the Snow-Lotus 1.0+ CE from Amazon and received today. First impressions are that these are quite close to my MX365s in signature; perhaps a bit cleaner and/or brighter, but hard to say yet.

I saw the SLs repeatedly mentioned for their efficiency/volume on mobile devices, but they seem to be almost exactly on par with the 365s in that respect, too. Overall, SL 1.0+ seems like a solid MX365 alternative (given the Senns are no longer for sale) for a similar price and with better build quality. Sadly though, the overall ergonomics don't tip in the SLs' favor, between the weight and bulky cable split. I also have to give the nod to the 365 shells for fit in my ears.

Since my main use for buds is on the go and driven by mobile devices' mediocre outputs, I may still go through with the AliExpress sampler just for fun. So far, between the H180/Datura/SL1.0+, I've yet to find one that quite outdoes the 365 when summed over SQ+volume+ergonomics. The SL is damn close, though.

Any recs for a super bass-heavy option under $8-10 on AE? I recall using some Sony buds sometime around 2001-05 that were far more impressive on the low end than the Senns or anything else I've tried so far. Would be fun to have a pair like that lying around, even if it's not my usual preference.


----------



## jrazmar

This Sonarworks True-Fi app works wonders to my already good sounding Liebesleid. And the developer just improved it by adding a Preference  Discovery setting where it creates a customized profile based on one's sound preference. The ES100 is on its way and I can't wait to hear what it can add to this combo.


----------



## seanc6441

ounwx said:


> Bit on the Snow-Lotus 1.0+ CE from Amazon and received today. First impressions are that these are quite close to my MX365s in signature; perhaps a bit cleaner and/or brighter, but hard to say yet.
> 
> I saw the SLs repeatedly mentioned for their efficiency/volume on mobile devices, but they seem to be almost exactly on par with the 365s in that respect, too. Overall, SL 1.0+ seems like a solid MX365 alternative (given the Senns are no longer for sale) for a similar price and with better build quality. Sadly though, the overall ergonomics don't tip in the SLs' favor, between the weight and bulky cable split. I also have to give the nod to the 365 shells for fit in my ears.
> 
> ...


Not on AE but on ebay you can find the kube V1 and V2 which are bassy earbuds with good sub bass extension for the form factor.

Or on AE othere's the vido earbud for $3 which is one of the bassiest earbuds. Apperantly the red version has slightly cleaner mids but that could just be unit variance


----------



## Jsingh4 (Jul 6, 2019)

Guys would you know about any Ali sale coming this month?


----------



## Willber

ounwx said:


> Any recs for a super bass-heavy option under $8-10 on AE? I recall using some Sony buds sometime around 2001-05 that were far more impressive on the low end than the Senns or anything else I've tried so far. Would be fun to have a pair like that lying around, even if it's not my usual preference.


If you haven't already, try the Vido. They always seemed bassy to me although I haven't used them for a while:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32806045266.html

Have a search for them on here, they get a lot of praise.


----------



## MisterMudd

seanc6441 said:


> Why not just buy the es100 and use it's balanced output to drive your earbuds.
> 
> People have been using the ES100 to driver portable headphones, it can handle earbuds too.
> 
> Unless you are considering buying some low sensitivity earbuds, I think the es100 could handle all the earbuds we use in this thread. But ask es100 owners here to confirm.


Out of all my DAPs and amps, the ES100 does something magical to my ear buds. Not going to get technical, it just does. Small and portable is the icing on top of it all.


----------



## MisterMudd

Jsingh4 said:


> Guys would you know about any Ali sale coming this month?


This month? Seem like they're having a huge sale every week now.


----------



## Con Par

Guys i have so many pairs just completely loose. Im looking for something like this







Can you suggest me something good from AliEx.?


----------



## irv003

seanc6441 said:


> Not on AE but on ebay you can find the kube V1 and V2 which are bassy earbuds with good sub bass extension for the form factor.
> 
> Or on AE othere's the vido earbud for $3 which is one of the bassiest earbuds. Apperantly the red version has slightly cleaner mids but that could just be unit variance


do you have emx500? hows the red vido compared to it? im thinking red vido is a different driver from all vidos, and its an emx driver inside. not sure though since i didnt have red vido yet


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 6, 2019)

irv003 said:


> do you have emx500? hows the red vido compared to it? im thinking red vido is a different driver from all vidos, and its an emx driver inside. not sure though since i didnt have red vido yet


I don't have red vido, people on EA group on facebook are saying red vido is clearer but i think its very possible that the vidos measure differently because of their cheap manufacturing. I have blue vido and have some emx500 drivers. Emx500 and vido sound too different to just confuse one for the other IMO.

Emx500 has more upper mid and treble presence. Vido is more bassy and darker. If red vido is indeed different and clearer I'd choose it over the blue.

People were also saying the black vido is somehow better awhile back. It seems once a new rarer vido colour is found people go crazy about it and maybe placebo sets in?


----------



## GREQ

seanc6441 said:


> I don't have red vido, people on EA group on facebook are saying red vido is clearer but i think its very possible that the vidos measure differently because of their cheap manufacturing.


I think it's more accurate to acknowledge that they're using new foams on the new red Vidos, and old foams on their old Vidos.
Old, loose foams sound smoother and duller than new, tight foams which sound clearer. 
This is just my experience with foams on any bud.
There was even talk on there about different colours of Kube V1's sounding different, which is almost certainly also nonsense.

So far, I've heard no distinct variation between 4 Kube V1s and 8 Vidos.
But as a disclaimer, I should mention that I don't yet own a red vido  so it's only my speculation at this point.


----------



## JackFlash

Con Par said:


> Guys i have so many pairs just completely loose. Im looking for something like this
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Search Ali for "fishing box" and take your pick.


----------



## irv003

seanc6441 said:


> I don't have red vido, people on EA group on facebook are saying red vido is clearer but i think its very possible that the vidos measure differently because of their cheap manufacturing. I have blue vido and have some emx500 drivers. Emx500 and vido sound too different to just confuse one for the other IMO.
> 
> Emx500 has more upper mid and treble presence. Vido is more bassy and darker. If red vido is indeed different and clearer I'd choose it over the blue.
> 
> People were also saying the black vido is somehow better awhile back. It seems once a new rarer vido colour is found people go crazy about it and maybe placebo sets in?


im just guessing base on their impressions on red vido, maybe its just on the density of the new red shell or a different driver which either new one or just an emx500 driver


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 6, 2019)

GREQ said:


> I think it's more accurate to acknowledge that they're using new foams on the new red Vidos, and old foams on their old Vidos.
> Old, loose foams sound smoother and duller than new, tight foams which sound clearer.
> This is just my experience with foams on any bud.
> There was even talk on there about different colours of Kube V1's sounding different, which is almost certainly also nonsense.
> ...


I believe I heard a difference in one area in my blue and white kube v1 around the 6khz mark. The blue having a bigger peak in that region when compared on a frequency sweep (not an exact science for sure lol) I do not believe it has anything to do with the colour variants and it's just driver variation from the manufacturing. I could buy 10 blue kubes and they may not measure identically.

If some mid-high end headphones can have driver variation then these chi fi earbuds can definitely have some too.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> I believe I heard a difference in one area in my blue and white kube v1 around the 6khz mark. The blue having a bigger peak in that region when compared on a frequency sweep (not an exact science for sure lol) I do not believe it has anything to do with the colour variants and it's just driver variation from the manufacturing. I could buy 10 blue kubes and they may not measure identically.
> 
> If some mid-high end headphones can have driver variation then these chi fi earbuds can definitely have some too.



yes, it's more of a production inconsistencies than intended variation. there are people who collect the Kubes and said it's because they have different sound. i have tried several - same coloured Kubes (and also same coloured Vidos) that sounded slightly different.


----------



## waynes world

GREQ said:


> But as a disclaimer, I should mention that I don't yet own a red vido  so it's only my speculation at this point.



What??? You don't have a red vido??????

@mbwilson111 will NOT be impressed!


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> yes, it's more of a production inconsistencies than intended variation. there are people who collect the Kubes and said it's because they have different sound. i have tried several - same coloured Kubes (and also same coloured Vidos) that sounded slightly different.



I have collected a few Kube colors and would be happy to find more.  I don't expect them to sound different.  I just think they look cool




waynes world said:


> What??? You don't have a red vido??????
> 
> @mbwilson111 will NOT be impressed!



Why do you say that?  I only have a white Vido and I got mine probably two years after everyone else.  Mine is recabled with a blue/white twist cable.


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> I have collected a few Kube colors and would be happy to find more.  I don't expect them to sound different.  I just think they look cool



yes,especially if you put them together, they look like rainbow candies


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> Why do you say that?  I only have a white Vido and I got mine probably two years after everyone else.  Mine is recabled with a blue/white twist cable.



Oops sorry! I got confused and thought GREQ was talking about the Kube V1's


----------



## seanc6441

I know this is more of a DIY question but I'll ask here because more people will be able to respond!

Does anyone know where to buy mx500 front covers with metal front grille?

I'm looking to buy some to replace on my Penon BS1 when I transfer it to mx500 MMCX shells.

The original covers got damaged when removing the driver from the stock shell. So I need some new ones. Any links to buy some would be appreciated!


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> I know this is more of a DIY question but I'll ask here because more people will be able to respond!
> 
> Does anyone know where to buy mx500 front covers with metal front grille?
> 
> ...



Did you ask on EA?


----------



## golov17 (Jul 7, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> I know this is more of a DIY question but I'll ask here because more people will be able to respond!
> 
> Does anyone know where to buy mx500 front covers with metal front grille?
> 
> ...


Like this?
10 pairs headphone shell for diy earphone headset for 13-13.5mm speaker unit
http://s.aliexpress.com/yeymmuqM

Pure copper 15.4mm earphone shell metal shell mmcx socket
http://s.aliexpress.com/Zv2QNj6j


----------



## irv003 (Jul 7, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> I know this is more of a DIY question but I'll ask here because more people will be able to respond!
> 
> Does anyone know where to buy mx500 front covers with metal front grille?
> 
> ...



sorry edited
i thought its an "emx" driver.
Theres a lot of driver 15.4mm with metal face.
Willsound MK1 premium uses that one also.


----------



## HungryPanda

seanc6441 said:


> I know this is more of a DIY question but I'll ask here because more people will be able to respond!
> 
> Does anyone know where to buy mx500 front covers with metal front grille?
> 
> ...


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32225818248.html


----------



## snip3r77

seanc6441 said:


> The UE has good quality bass (tight and punchy, no bleed into the mids, acceptable extension) but I always felt it was a little lacking compared to say, kube V1, WS MK2 etc. Yes those are bassy earbuds, but nonetheless the RY4S was considered top dog at it's price point. So I was being critical of it's performance.
> 
> But if you bass port the RY4S UE (a very small port not to overdo it). You get a nice boost in punch and some extra depth, still it doesn't bleed into the mids.
> 
> ...



Small issue based on price point. don't sweat on it and enjoy the ride


----------



## golov17

front cover 15.4mm DIY materials Earbud housing
http://s.aliexpress.com/aMnUneam


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jul 7, 2019)

chinmie said:


> yes,especially if you put them together, they look like rainbow candies



When/if I can get a couple more Kube colors, I will line them up for a photo shoot  Right now I have purple, orange, pink and white.  My husband has blue and white.

Meanwhile, I think I have finished collecting Sony Ericsson HPM-64 colors.  All re-cabled by @HungryPanda.  Individual shots of some of them are in a spoiler at the end of the post.







Spoiler: a couple of close-ups


----------



## waynes world

I hereby proclaim the FENGRU DIY Tingo TC200  (aka Fengru Silvers) to be the current $5 champions!
(I know that @Willber will agree)

Let me know what your $5 champions are


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Did you ask on EA?


Not yet


golov17 said:


> Like this?
> 10 pairs headphone shell for diy earphone headset for 13-13.5mm speaker unit
> http://s.aliexpress.com/yeymmuqM
> 
> ...


More like the original bs1 official cover
 


HungryPanda said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32225818248.html


Thank you, perfect 



golov17 said:


> front cover 15.4mm DIY materials Earbud housing
> http://s.aliexpress.com/aMnUneam


That's it thanks!


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> I hereby proclaim the FENGRU DIY Tingo TC200  (aka Fengru Silvers) to be the current $5 champions!
> (I know that @Willber will agree)
> 
> Let me know what your $5 champions are


Where can i buy the tc200? Is this the one the apperantly contains an mx985 driver? Any link? Thx


----------



## coflaes

I have both, the tc 200 and sr2 16 ohms, and the sr2 is wayy better, sweet, fuller, frontal vocals, nice clarity without being brilliant, nice kick bass, not so much rumble, the soundstage is a little intimate, but in a nice way, its perfect for acoustic songs like "la soledad y el mar- Natalia lafourcade", i prefer them over my kz zs7 and ****. for me, they are a must have if you want nice, clear and mellow mids, for 15 dollars they are awesome.


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Where can i buy the tc200? Is this the one the apperantly contains an mx985 driver? Any link? Thx



https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32687542028.html
( sorry, mobile link)


----------



## waynes world

coflaes said:


> I have both, the tc 200 and sr2 16 ohms, and the sr2 is wayy better, sweet, fuller, frontal vocals, nice clarity without being brilliant, nice kick bass, not so much rumble, the soundstage is a little intimate, but in a nice way, its perfect for acoustic songs like "la soledad y el mar- Natalia lafourcade", i prefer them over my kz zs7 and ****. for me, they are a must have if you want nice, clear and mellow mids, for 15 dollars they are awesome.



I'm definitely going to have to check those out! But alas, they are $15 so they don't qualify for the $5 budget king competition LOL


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 7, 2019)

coflaes said:


> I have both, the tc 200 and sr2 16 ohms, and the sr2 is wayy better, sweet, fuller, frontal vocals, nice clarity without being brilliant, nice kick bass, not so much rumble, the soundstage is a little intimate, but in a nice way, its perfect for acoustic songs like "la soledad y el mar- Natalia lafourcade", i prefer them over my kz zs7 and ****. for me, they are a must have if you want nice, clear and mellow mids, for 15 dollars they are awesome.


I like them too, probably one of the best budget pk drivers. Gonna try the sr2 pro driver once it arrives.

The bass hits just low enough to satisfy for me, any less and it wouldnt be as good but it has enough to balance out the sound.

I tried them with my new copper cable (i have one in a test shell converted to mmcx) and it makes the bass even more impactful but makes the mids a bit too warm. So I'll retune them slightly and to get the right balance of bass impact and clarity.

The soundstage does suffer, I could mount the driver a 1-2mm further back in the cover by adding a metal ring in front of the driver (the same used to make the drivers) and porting the pk shell around the edge and closing the middle holes to try get the most open soundstage. But it's a lot of work for what's probably a very small gain. Also you might lose some of the bass impact if you change the driver position...


----------



## HungryPanda

Made my own silvers (with a different driver of course.


----------



## coflaes

seanc6441 said:


> I like them too, probably one of the best budget pk drivers. Gonna try the sr2 pro driver once it arrives.
> 
> The bass hits just low enough to satisfy for me, any less and it wouldnt be as good but it has enough to balance out the sound.
> 
> ...


Do you have the link for the pro version?


----------



## jogawag

coflaes said:


> Do you have the link for the pro version?


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32252667305.html
You will need to solder.
Or you could ask Chitty's Store for soldering.


----------



## coflaes

jogawag said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32252667305.html
> You will need to solder.
> Or you could ask Chitty's Store for soldering.


Pls tell us how the pro version sounds once it arrives


----------



## jogawag (Jul 7, 2019)

coflaes said:


> Pls tell us how the pro version sounds once it arrives


I am using the black version (sold out and not found even in taobao) of SR PRO driver by soldering to monocrystal copper cable. The sound is clearer than the SR2 driver, and the bass is heard until the Sub bass.


----------



## Willber

waynes world said:


> I hereby proclaim the FENGRU DIY Tingo TC200  (aka Fengru Silvers) to be the current $5 champions!
> (I know that @Willber will agree)
> 
> Let me know what your $5 champions are


Another convert!


----------



## rahmish

mbwilson111 said:


> When/if I can get a couple more Kube colors, I will line them up for a photo shoot  Right now I have purple, orange, pink and white.  My husband has blue and white.
> 
> Meanwhile, I think I have finished collecting Sony Ericsson HPM-64 colors.  All re-cabled by @HungryPanda.  Individual shots of some of them are in a spoiler at the end of the post.
> 
> ...


Nice collection, I need to finish mine as well, but do you have green color?


----------



## cesdag

Hi everyone, any idea on when the new **** will be available on AliExpress? Thanks


----------



## mbwilson111

rahmish said:


> Nice collection, I need to finish mine as well, but do you have green color?



I never found green but I have that turquoise one at the bottom of the picture... It might be called aquatic blue

I have white, pink, red, purple, two orange, aquatic blue and that grey blue one   My husband has a black and a red.

Do you have a list of all the colors ever made?


----------



## rahmish

mbwilson111 said:


> I never found green but I have that turquoise one at the bottom of the picture... It might be called aquatic blue
> 
> I have white, pink, red, purple, two orange, aquatic blue and that grey blue one   My husband has a black and a red.
> 
> Do you have a list of all the colors ever made?


No, I don't have a list, but I have the green one and I think you are missing one more - black with red writing or you have it? I want blue one as well, hope it will be available on ebay when I will be ready to buy...


----------



## waynes world

waynes world said:


> I hereby proclaim the FENGRU DIY Tingo TC200  (aka Fengru Silvers) to be the current $5 champions!
> (I know that @Willber will agree)
> 
> Let me know what your $5 champions are



So, no takers? C'mon people - don't be shy!


----------



## BrunoC (Jul 8, 2019)

waynes world said:


> So, no takers? C'mon people - don't be shy!



I was going to mention this ones:
- RY4S UE or RY4S HI
- Yincrow RW-9

But they're more in the $10+ area.

So, right now IMO this one (a classic) beats the Silvers, as It has a more clear, sharp sound, with great bass. V-shaped signature.
FENGRU DIY EMX500

I also like the Silver, it has more thick mids and a warmer sound presentation, bit I prefer the EMX500 which has a more energetic, exciting sound. The Silver has a more relaxed non-fatiguing sound, so very different and they complement each other rather well actually.


----------



## cyh03176

BrunoC said:


> I was going to mention this ones:
> - RY4S UE or RY4S HI
> - Yincrow RW-9
> 
> ...


i concur, but emx500 fatigue my ears after 2 hours while i can listen to the silvers forever.


----------



## BrunoC

cyh03176 said:


> i concur, but emx500 fatigue my ears after 2 hours while i can listen to the silvers forever.



Yes! I was editing my post to say exactly that!


----------



## RobinFood

BrunoC said:


> I was going to mention this ones:
> - RY4S UE or RY4S HI
> - Yincrow RW-9
> 
> ...



I haven't heard the silvers, but for 5$ I think the original Monk plus are actually really good. Sure a few dollars more will get you better extension up high and down low, but the mids, separation and soundstage are absolutely amazing. I still pull them out from time to time, and I don't do that with many of my 10-20$ buds.


----------



## Jsingh4

Umm guys any impression about ShiroYuki


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Jsingh4 said:


> Umm guys any impression about ShiroYuki


Here are a few comments that you might have missed when you inquired previously:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2891#post-15044065
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2890#post-15043946
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2869#post-15020949


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> So, no takers? C'mon people - don't be shy!


Haven't heard enough sub $5 earbuds to have a favorite. The monk plus was ok, the vido isn't my favourite but it's good enough. The monk lite 120 was not very good.

That's all I've heard under $5. Most of my budget buds have been between $5-15.

(Actually isn't monk lite like $7? Damn lol)


----------



## Jsingh4

WoodyLuvr said:


> Here are a few comments that you might have missed when you inquired previously:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2891#post-15044065
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2890#post-15043946
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2869#post-15020949


no I did not miss it I just thought maybe I can get more insight or more reviews


----------



## BrunoC (Jul 8, 2019)

IMO the real budget battle is in the $5-$15 range.

Very hard to pick a favorite, but my is the RY4S UE / RY4S HI with a thin foam+donut to enhance the bass maintaining clarity. I like the signature a lot.

What's your favorite in this range?


----------



## waynes world

BrunoC said:


> IMO the real budget battle is in the $5-$15 range.
> 
> Very hard to pick a favorite, but my is the RY4S UE / RY4S HI with a thin foam+donut to enhance the bass maintaining clarity. I like the signature a lot.
> 
> What's your favorite in this range?



Kube V1's (with shipping approx $16)

Yincrow RW9's (I bought mine for approx $16)

ME80's

And the RY4S UE's are great as well.


----------



## Willber

waynes world said:


> Kube V1's (with shipping approx $16)
> 
> Yincrow RW9's (I bought mine for approx $16)
> 
> ...


I have all those but I would put the SR2 16ohm above them.


----------



## Willber

I have a problem with my ME80. 
There is an imbalance between left and right which affects the quality of the sound (not just the volume). 
The last time I used them, I noticed that if I covered the rear vent hole on the RH bud the sound changed, as you would expect. However, this change doesn't occur when I cover the LH vent. 
I concluded that the LH vent was blocked in some way, but poking around with a needle hasn't changed it. 
Does anyone know how to get inside the shell so I can take a look?


----------



## mbwilson111

RobinFood said:


> I haven't heard the silvers, but for 5$ I think the original Monk plus are actually really good. Sure a few dollars more will get you better extension up high and down low, but the mids, separation and soundstage are absolutely amazing. I still pull them out from time to time, and I don't do that with many of my 10-20$ buds.



When I do listen with one of my Monks,  I end up listening for hours.

I have even had one of them recabled by my personal recabler...


----------



## waynes world

Willber said:


> I have all those but I would put the SR2 16ohm above them.



Ok. I'm pretty sure this it the correct link:
https://es.aliexpress.com/item/32801265552.html

I think I'd prefer the grey curved plug version. Can I assume there is not change in sound from the red straight plug version?


----------



## Willber

waynes world said:


> Ok. I'm pretty sure this it the correct link:
> https://es.aliexpress.com/item/32801265552.html
> 
> I think I'd prefer the grey curved plug version. Can I assume there is not change in sound from the red straight plug version?


I can't confirm that as I only got the straight plug, but I can't see it would make a difference.


----------



## cyh03176

Willber said:


> I have all those but I would put the SR2 16ohm above them.


so sr2 16ohm over fengru silvers?


----------



## waynes world

Willber said:


> I can't confirm that as I only got the straight plug,



Wimp! 



> but I can't see it would make a difference.



Me neither, and I'm willing to take the risk. That red cable is rather vibrant - I think it would draw too much attention and I'd get robbed lol.

Ordered!


----------



## Willber

cyh03176 said:


> so sr2 16ohm over fengru silvers?


As an all-rounder, no (but it's close). For purely acoustic and vocal music I would just edge towards the SR2.


----------



## Willber

waynes world said:


> Wimp!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The red is quite bright (I love it) but nothing compare to my orange Kube.

SR2 - lots of burn-in required.


----------



## waynes world

Willber said:


> SR2 - lots of burn-in required.



I will be the judge of that!


----------



## Willber

waynes world said:


> I will be the judge of that!


@jogawag, have a word with him!


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> That red cable is rather vibrant - I think it would draw too much attention and I'd get robbed lol.



Red is the reason I bought my Willsound MK1 rev 2 over a year ago.    Don't be afraid of color!


----------



## waynes world

Willber said:


> @jogawag, have a word with him!



Hey, no ganging up! 



mbwilson111 said:


> Red is the reason I bought my Willsound MK1 rev 2 over a year ago.    Don't be afraid of color!



I'm not! Grey is a color!


----------



## RuFrost

Willber said:


> I have a problem with my ME80.
> There is an imbalance between left and right which affects the quality of the sound (not just the volume).
> The last time I used them, I noticed that if I covered the rear vent hole on the RH bud the sound changed, as you would expect. However, this change doesn't occur when I cover the LH vent.
> I concluded that the LH vent was blocked in some way, but poking around with a needle hasn't changed it.
> Does anyone know how to get inside the shell so I can take a look?



We had this case in russian forum. The one who had such issue opened up me80 and discovered that the driver in wrong ear turned by 90 degree of what it is is supposed to be. Very probably,that you have the same case or similar - driver is not positioned correctly. Also,probably,you guys are not the only one...


----------



## Willber

RuFrost said:


> We had this case in russian forum. The one who had such issue opened up me80 and discovered that the driver in wrong ear turned by 90 degree of what it is is supposed to be. Very probably,that you have the same case or similar - driver is not positioned correctly. Also,probably,you guys are not the only one...


Thanks, but I don't know how to get into it...


----------



## waynes world

Willber said:


> Thanks, but I don't know how to get into it...


----------



## jogawag

waynes world said:


> I will be the judge of that!


SR2 16ohm requires 50-100 hours of burn-in to get enough bass.


----------



## Willber

jogawag said:


> SR2 16ohm requires 50-100 hours of burn-in to get enough bass.


And soundstage IME.


----------



## jogawag

Willber said:


> And soundstage IME.


The soundstage of SR2 sounds wide enough for me.


----------



## Willber

jogawag said:


> The soundstage of SR2 sounds wide enough for me.


And me but it took time to open out.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Got my Ry4s plus today. Bought with this cable. With this cable there is a distinct difference from the UE version. The plus has much tighter and much more authoritive bass then the UE. Mids and treble sound samey. So far I like this much more then the UE.


----------



## chinmie

I've just saw the news from willy's fb page yesterday, it looks like the Willsound MK1 is discontinued due to the drivers no longer available


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jul 8, 2019)

Jsingh4 said:


> Is there any reference like bud with a smaller driver,
> Unfortunately Mx500 is not for me. ☹️



You wrote this not too long ago but you  have been asking about the Silvers and about the Shiro Yuki.  Those use MX500 shells.  Have you decided that you are able to make those fit you?



chinmie said:


> I've just saw the news from willy's fb page yesterday, it looks like the Willsound MK1 is discontinued due to the drivers no longer available



I am happy to have mine,  but there are many other good drivers available these days.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jul 9, 2019)

I would take the $3 RY4S over the $2-3 Vido any day.

I haven't heard the RY4S UE/HI/+ versions to compare. Neither have I heard many of the others in this $5 or less comparison. (No monk+, diy emx500, etc.)


I gave away my Vido's and my Leagginal DIY 16 ohm pk shell with single vent earbuds (200+ hrs burn in).


----------



## MisterMudd

RobinFood said:


> I haven't heard the silvers, but for 5$ I think the original Monk plus are actually really good. Sure a few dollars more will get you better extension up high and down low, but the mids, separation and soundstage are absolutely amazing. I still pull them out from time to time, and I don't do that with many of my 10-20$ buds.


So right about the Monks OG. Bought several pairs when they came out, thinking I could give them away to families and friends if I didn't like them. Well, I still have the unopened ones, and I ain't letting them go anywhere. Sturdy and they sound great.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jul 9, 2019)

MisterMudd said:


> So right about the Monks OG. Bought several pairs when they came out, thinking I could give them away to families and friends if I didn't like them. Well, I still have the unopened ones, and I ain't letting them go anywhere. Sturdy and they sound great.



I don't have an Original Monk but I do have an Original Fareal (yes, there is an R in that one)  that is said to be similar.  The people were connected at one time.

I was wondering how many colors/variations there have been and I found this image.  I had a chance once to buy the Blood Orange but just could not bring myself to pay $50 for it.  I would love to find the PH (HEEP) version for a reasonable price.









edited to add more info on each... however, this information is actually now out of date... most have been discontinued since this was written.  

1. *Original (Beta?) Monk* - first edition of Monk?, was available only to selected owners, no longer sold, was it even sold?
2. *Original Monk* - the monk that started it all, no longer sold
3. *Standard Gray Transparent/Smoke Monk Plus* - available anywhere
4. *Darth Piano Black Monk Plus* - available anywhere
5. *Royal Purple Monk Plus* - available anywhere
6. *Coffee Gold Monk Plus* - available anywhere
7. *Monk Plus Massdrop Exclusive Red Edition* - can only be bought during Massdrop drops
8. *Monk Plus Massdrop Exclusive Translucent Blue Edition* - can only be bought during Massdrop drops
9. *Monk Plus PH (HEEP) Edition* - only available in the Philippines
10. *Monk Plus Espresso Edition* - available anywhere
11. *Monk Plus Candy Edition* - very elusive Monk Plus, can only be won during Facebook and veclan.com contests, no longer sold, rare gem, loved and sought by die hard Monk Plus fans
12. *Monk Plus Blood Orange (Makka Limited Edition)* - quite elusive and expensive Monk Plus, not as famous as the "Candy Monk" but is considered to be of the highest quality
13. *Monk Plus SPC Edition* - limited edition with silver plated copper cable (?)
14. *Full Clear Monk Plus* - available anywhere


----------



## Alex.Grimm

I know a little off topic, advise high-quality budget mmcx cable. It is necessary for Willsound and what would then be replaced by Smabat ST-10.



Spoiler



www.aliexpress.com/item/32971728152.html
www.aliexpress.com/item/33030782005.html
www.aliexpress.com/item/32945443691.html


----------



## irv003

mbwilson111 said:


> I don't have an Original Monk but I do have an Original Fareal (yes, there is an R in that one)  that is said to be similar.  The people were connected at one time.
> 
> I was wondering how many colors/variations there have been and I found this image.  I had a chance once to buy the Blood Orange but just could not bring myself to pay $50 for it.  I would love to find the PH (HEEP) version for a reasonable price.
> 
> ...


are the monk sound varies per color?


----------



## DBaldock9

mbwilson111 said:


> I don't have an Original Monk but I do have an Original Fareal (yes, there is an R in that one)  that is said to be similar.  The people were connected at one time.
> 
> I was wondering how many colors/variations there have been and I found this image.  I had a chance once to buy the Blood Orange but just could not bring myself to pay $50 for it.  I would love to find the PH (HEEP) version for a reasonable price.
> 
> ...



On the Veclan website, the Monk Plus SPC Edition is still available (USD$20 for 3.5mm TRS; USD$40 for 3.5mm TRRS, 2.5mm TRRS, 4.4mm TRRRS).
If you're a bit handy with a soldering iron, it would probably be cheaper to buy the $20 model, and install your own Balanced plugs on the cable.


----------



## mbwilson111

irv003 said:


> are the monk sound varies per color?



No.  Maybe some of the different cables make a difference but not the shell color.  I think if you buy one now you can only get the smoke color from VE.  I have seen smoke, black, purple and  coffee on ebay.

I enjoy color so sometimes I buy different colors just for fun.


----------



## irv003

mbwilson111 said:


> No.  Maybe some of the different cables make a difference but not the shell color.  I think if you buy one now you can only get the smoke color from VE.  I have seen smoke, black, purple and  coffee on ebay.
> 
> I enjoy color so sometimes I buy different colors just for fun.


i only have the coffee monk and PH monk, youre right SQ is still same, slight smoothness on lows in coffee monk since cable is little upgrade also


----------



## mbwilson111

irv003 said:


> i only have the coffee monk and PH monk, youre right SQ is still same, slight smoothness on lows in coffee monk since cable is little upgrade also



Is yours the standard coffee one with the black cable or the more expensive.expresso version with the fancy cable?

I want the PH one because it looks cool.


----------



## irv003

mbwilson111 said:


> Is yours the standard coffee one with the black cable or the more expensive.expresso version with the fancy cable?
> 
> I want the PH one because it looks cool.


coffee with fancy cable, cable is similar to candy monk but with different color


----------



## wskl

Alex.Grimm said:


> I know a little off topic, advise high-quality budget mmcx cable. It is necessary for Willsound and what would then be replaced by Smabat ST-10.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I can only speak for the Smabat ST-10, there is actually another NiceHCK cable with better conductivity than the ones you have listed.  It is number 053 in hakuzen's list, I have the mixed copper/silver version and it adds a warm tilt to the ST-10 which I like.

I would ignore the TRN 8-core cable, read HERE for the reasons.

If you want to stay with the neutral character of the ST-10, then I like to use this SPC cable from Penonaudio.
https://penonaudio.com/accessories/earphone-cable/mmcx/silver-plated-replacement-cable.html


----------



## Alex.Grimm

wskl said:


> This one:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/OUR...e-Cable-Cord-For-Shure-SE215/32825813493.html



Is this cable the best choice for its price?


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> Is yours the standard coffee one with the black cable or the more expensive.expresso version with the fancy cable?
> I want the PH one because it looks cool.



I wish I had the decaf version - I could listen to it all day long!


----------



## ClieOS

Apple 1st. Gen. iBud (recabled)
DIY earbud with 'ironman' driver





ANN N200
NiceHCK ME80
TOPlay





Smabat ST10 (New MMCX socket version)
K's White Ling E Standard Edition
K's White Ling E Bass Edition
**** KP110


----------



## jogawag (Jul 9, 2019)

wskl said:


> I can only speak for the Smabat ST-10, there is actually another NiceHCK cable with better conductivity than the ones you have listed.  It is number 053 in hakuzen's list, I have the mixed copper/silver version and it adds a warm tilt to the ST-10 which I like.
> 
> I would ignore the TRN 8-core cable, read HERE for the reasons.
> 
> ...



I also felt that the amount of medium and high sound of Smabat ST-10 was a little short with the stock cable, so I changed to the silver-plated MMCX cable to achieve satisfactory sound balance. (It is a cheap cable of only $ 15.)

Silver-plated MMCX cables are highly recommended for those who have Smabat ST-10.


----------



## assassin10000

jogawag said:


> I also felt that the amount of medium and high sound of Smabat ST-10 was a little short with the stock cable, so I changed to the silver-plated MMCX cable to achieve satisfactory sound balance. (It is a cheap cable of only $ 15.)
> 
> Silver-plated MMCX cables are highly recommended for those who have Smabat ST-10.



Regular foams or donut foams? The mids/highs to me were good enough I've gone to the regular foams. Otherwise it was a bit fatiguing on long sessions (4+ hours). I also eq'ed some of the bass out for those long sessions.


----------



## waynes world

assassin10000 said:


> *I also eq'ed some of the bass out* for those long sessions.





Spoiler: Unforgivable sin! I can't read that!


----------



## cyh03176

ClieOS said:


> Apple 1st. Gen. iBud (recabled)
> DIY earbud with 'ironman' driver
> 
> 
> ...


wah why ur me80 has different colour


----------



## jogawag

assassin10000 said:


> Regular foams or donut foams? The mids/highs to me were good enough I've gone to the regular foams. Otherwise it was a bit fatiguing on long sessions (4+ hours). I also eq'ed some of the bass out for those long sessions.



My Smabat ST-10 is the first revision. I use a slightly thin full foam on it.
Perhaps the disagreement with you may be the difference between your sound balance preference and mine.


----------



## assassin10000

waynes world said:


> Spoiler: Unforgivable sin! I can't read that!



Hahaha.

I love the bass of the ST-10 but not for 6-8 hours straight. Trying to keep my hearing. 

I listen to a lot of bass heavy music, so taking 3db at 31/62hz and 1.5 at 125hz just takes the edge off.



cyh03176 said:


> wah why ur me80 has different colour



Looks similar to mine, which just got in last night (currently burning in). The photo has higher contrast and it looks darker in his pic than irl, from what I can tell.



jogawag said:


> My Smabat ST-10 is the first revision. I use a slightly thin full foam on it.
> Perhaps the disagreement with you may be the difference between your sound balance preference and mine.



Could be. Probably is. We all hear differently.


----------



## cyh03176

wskl said:


> I would ignore the TRN 8-core cable, read HERE for the reasons.


damn.. is the 16core a scam as well? i bought the 16core



assassin10000 said:


> Looks similar to mine, which just got in last night (currently burning in). The photo has higher contrast and it looks darker in his pic than irl, from what I can tell.


don't think it's the contrast. his shell is bluish while the line within the shell is still silver.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

cyh03176 said:


> damn.. is the 16core a scam as well? i bought the 16core




https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...ck-cable-thread.891911/page-109#post-15000834


----------



## mbwilson111

cyh03176 said:


> damn.. is the 16core a scam as well? i bought the 16core



Should be fine.  Check this post in the TRN thread,.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/trn-impressions-thread.881761/page-37#post-15035640


----------



## cyh03176

Alex.Grimm said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...ck-cable-thread.891911/page-109#post-15000834





mbwilson111 said:


> Should be fine.  Check this post in the TRN thread,.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/trn-impressions-thread.881761/page-37#post-15035640



thank you so much!


----------



## wskl

wskl said:


> This one:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/OUR...e-Cable-Cord-For-Shure-SE215/32825813493.html





Alex.Grimm said:


> Is this cable the best choice for its price?



Sorry, I don't have this cable.


----------



## Gustavo1976

After use Yincrow rw9 one month I'm very surprised about the sq. What do you think and can I find a better option quality/price?


----------



## ClieOS

cyh03176 said:


> wah why ur me80 has different colour



Just a contrast issue with the camera.


----------



## waynes world

Gustavo1976 said:


> After use Yincrow rw9 one month I'm very surprised about the sq. What do you think and can I find a better option quality/price?



They truly are awesome.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Red Vido available on Aliexpress



Spoiler



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33054816321.html


----------



## RobinFood (Jul 10, 2019)

Just got the Smabat...I think I got a first edition since the MMCX connector part didn't have any white trim in it. The box was slightly banged up to. For longevity is it worth spending a few more and returning it to order from someone else for an upgraded version?






Initial impressions are that it sounds SUPER clean. It has some really nice texture to vocals, and I see the comparisions to the ER4 series now. It's that extra layer like breathing in subtley, guitar stings sliding, that adds so much to the realism.

It is slightly less detailed than I was hoping, and the separation isn't as good as I was hoping, but I think that will improved as it burns in (brain burns in too), as I am noticing it getting better as I listen now.
Nevermind, great separation and details are coming alive now.

The best thing about them is the comfort though. Over ears with earbuds is amazing! No tugging down on my ear, just floating securely in my ear hole.

Edit. I added a photo of the mmcx when I unwrapped it, and even though I didn't see a white thing, I see it on the photo.

I paired it off the es100 with ldac instead of directly on the shanling m0 and it seems to sound even better.


----------



## DBaldock9

Last night, I pulled out my VE Zen 2.0 ZOE w/Pure Blue (Silver) Balanced cable (2.5mm TRRS), to see how they sound with my new Topping D70 DAC (Dual AK4497EQ) connected to my iBasso PB2 Amp (2x Sparkos SS3306 Discrete Op-Amps; 4x BUF634P Mono Buffers w/Class A Bias Resistor) - listening to TV and music streamed from my Roku4 & PC.
.
I had been using the ZOE with the VE rubber rings, but they're just not as comfortable as foams. 
So, I've switched over to some Donut Foams.
.
The combination sounds really good, without being too warm.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 10, 2019)

Willber said:


> I have all those but I would put the SR2 16ohm above them.


For me

Kube v1=SR2>RY4S UE>EMX500

And yes these are one of the rare buds that seem to improve notably with burn in or general use. Out of box they are midcentric and lack clarity, but seem to clear up and gain some low end after just a few hours of use. Good tonality, good all rounder just doesn't have a lot of soundstage.

Kube V1 just has a lovely smooth and balanced sound, and importantly has good extension on both ends. Nice for relaxing listening. Responds well to mods and foam changes. Very nice natural soundstage (good balance of depth, width and height).


----------



## seanc6441

jogawag said:


> SR2 16ohm requires 50-100 hours of burn-in to get enough bass.


Honestly I found mine improved after just 5-10 hours, compared to stock which is muddy and midcentric. These buds really transform with burn in, while most others have much less change if any at all.

I found that the penon bs1 official has some change during burn in too. With slightly more bass and less harsness around 4-6khz.

 But much less than SR2's improved bass and highs.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 10, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> No.  Maybe some of the different cables make a difference but not the shell color.  I think if you buy one now you can only get the smoke color from VE.  I have seen smoke, black, purple and  coffee on ebay.
> 
> I enjoy color so sometimes I buy different colors just for fun.


The smoke shell is better quality than most mx500 shells, but this may be true of all monks variations. The plastic feels more durable. Like they used a higher grade plastic than your average cheapo mx500 shell.


----------



## Willber

seanc6441 said:


> For me
> 
> Kube v1=SR2>RY4S UE>EMX500
> 
> And yes these are one of the rare buds that seem to improve notably with burn in or general use. Out of box they are midcentric and lack clarity, but seem to clear up and gain some low end after just a few hours of use. Good tonality, good all rounder just doesn't have a lot of soundstage.


How long have you used them for? I found the biggest improvements came in the first 50 hours (especially the soundstage) with more gradual changes in the next 50.


seanc6441 said:


> Kube V1 just has a lovely smooth and balanced sound, and importantly has good extension on both ends. Nice for relaxing listening. Responds well to mods and foam changes. Very nice natural soundstage (good balance of depth, width and height).


I find the Fengru Silver similar to the Kube in signature and space but with better clarity and finesse, especially in the mids.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 10, 2019)

Willber said:


> How long have you used them for? I found the biggest improvements came in the first 50 hours (especially the soundstage) with more gradual changes in the next 50.
> 
> I find the Fengru Silver similar to the Kube in signature and space but with better clarity and finesse, especially in the mids.


Let me correct because I had forgotton I did burn them in for up to 10 hours I think. But I found notable improvements after that short burn in, with possible gradual changes after more listening time. But it's difficult to judge any changes when you listen constantly as your brain just adjusts to the sound.

I'm just surprised they sound so mediocre out of the box yet are a very good earbud if given some use.

As for the kubes, i do think the midrange tonality is slightly off with stock tuning, I've tried a few things like adding extra venting/bass port and/or reducing the dampening, I do think they sound better when the dampening is decreased, but you need to use thin foams to compensate for the extra warmth and low end. So you lose some of that deep bass provided by the thicker foam but gain more detail and better tonality in the mids by less dampening. So it's a personal preference thing.

I'd be very interested to see GREQ try the kube drivers in various shells like he did the vido. As I think the kube driver has good potential to work with.


----------



## Willber

seanc6441 said:


> Let me correct because I had forgotton I did burn them in for up to 10 hours I think. But I found notable improvements after that short burn in, with possible gradual changes after more listening time. But it's difficult to judge any changes when you listen constantly as your brain just adjusts to the sound.
> 
> I'm just surprised they sound so mediocre out of the box yet are a very good earbud if given some use.


I felt the same as you when I first got them, but I'd read that they needed 100+ hours' burn-in (including from the seller) so I ran them in parallel to other buds I was using and checked on them periodically so I noticed the changes over time.


----------



## irv003

for me Kube V1 sounds like a brighter emx500


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jul 10, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> The smoke shell is better quality than most mx500 shells, but this may be true of all monks variations. The plastic feels more durable. Like they used a higher grade plastic than your average cheapo mx500 shell.



I have noticed that is true of all my Monk colors.  Some others sometimes feel flimsy.



seanc6441 said:


> I'd be very interested to see GREQ try the kube drivers in various shells like he did the vido. As I think the kube driver has good potential to work with.



I was told by the seller to be extremely careful opening the Kube... that it is easy to damage the driver.

I had mentioned to him that we might put some pretty cables on our white Kubes.  So, he wanted to warn me.


----------



## sainteb

@ClieOS are there any earbuds that have the form factor of Apple's Ear/AirPods but a nice cable like that of the Shiro Yuki? Also, is the Shiro cable/sound actually good IRL?


----------



## Marcos Fontana (Jul 10, 2019)

New batch arrived:






FAAEAL FAREAL Original Batch, ANN100, Zeva SuperFire (awesome mids)

Extra: KSC75 (Part Express Headband + Yaxi Pads), Porta Pro (Yaxi Pads). 

Also I got my second BDE (spare). Everything awesome. ANN100 and Zeva are a must have!


----------



## irv003

mbwilson111 said:


> I was told by the seller to be extremely careful opening the Kube... that it is easy to damage the driver.
> 
> I had mentioned to him that we might put some pretty cables on our white Kubes.  So, he wanted to warn me.


 Kube V1 has a very tight glue, shell could be broken if carelessly forcing to the drivers.


----------



## ClieOS

sainteb said:


> @ClieOS are there any earbuds that have the form factor of Apple's Ear/AirPods but a nice cable like that of the Shiro Yuki? Also, is the Shiro cable/sound actually good IRL?



Not exactly like the cable on Shiro-Yuki, but a good cable nonetheless - Yincrow RW-100.

Consider the price, both mentioned above are very solid choice with very good price/performance ratio.


----------



## cyh03176

Marcos Fontana said:


> New batch arrived:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


how does ANN100 compare to Superfire?

I really like the Superfire but I got a lemon unit with loose cable and audio cutting off on me whenever I am moving around.

I will never buy a Zeva again. When I bought it the warranty didn't say I need to keep everything in order to claim. Now the brand owner says different thing. Haihz


----------



## infamousas (Jul 11, 2019)

Hi guys
I have an edifier 180.  Its pretty good.  But I feel like I can easily upgrade.  My budget is about 30$ and I prefer to use AliExpress.  Any good earbuds for less than $30? My usage is general so playing games, watching sports, listening to OST from games. And I think one with a detachable cable is better for me since i feel like I keep breaking the cables for my edifiers and I prefer an earbud with either detachable cables so I can replace them or one with very sturdy cables that would last for awhile. Also no in ear, flat head only.  
Thanks


----------



## Marcos Fontana (Jul 11, 2019)

cyh03176 said:


> how does ANN100 compare to Superfire?
> 
> I really like the Superfire but I got a lemon unit with loose cable and audio cutting off on me whenever I am moving around.
> 
> I will never buy a Zeva again. When I bought it the warranty didn't say I need to keep everything in order to claim. Now the brand owner says different thing. Haihz


The first thing that you notice is soundstage. The soundstage from the ANN100 is huge compared with Superfire. Superfire is more flat while ANN100 brings to you a lot of details... Superfire is about intimate sound. SuperFire is a solid earbud, but I love earbuds with big soundstage. I will get one ANN100 more to have one spare (self explanatory).

About the build quality, my Superfire came with left cord longer (5~8mm)  than right. This is not a problem for me.

The seller says that ANN100 don't have a lot bass, but for me it's really enough. Resuming, the best thing in it are soundstage and mids. Highs are bit high, but nothing too high . I personally prefer it over the ANN200.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Marcos Fontana said:


> The first thing that you notice is soundstage. The soundstage from the ANN100 is huge compared with Superfire. Superfire is more flat while ANN100 brings to you a lot of details... Superfire is about intimate sound. SuperFire is a solid earbud, but I love earbuds with big soundstage. I will get one ANN100 more to have one spare (self explanatory).
> 
> About the build quality, my Superfire came with left cord longer (5~8mm)  than right. This is not a problem for me.


Lol, I decided to buy 2. Just 2 left. Hurry up!


----------



## cyh03176

Marcos Fontana said:


> The first thing that you notice is soundstage. The soundstage from the ANN100 is huge compared with Superfire. Superfire is more flat while ANN100 brings to you a lot of details... Superfire is about intimate sound. SuperFire is a solid earbud, but I love earbuds with big soundstage. I will get one ANN100 more to have one spare (self explanatory).
> 
> About the build quality, my Superfire came with left cord longer (5~8mm)  than right. This is not a problem for me.


and mine came with the right cord longer lol.

im now inclined to get the ann100. so everything is similar to superfire but with a wider soundstage?


----------



## sareer007 (Jul 11, 2019)

Marcos Fontana said:


> New batch arrived:
> Could you compare bde to superfire ? and where did you buy bde from ?
> 
> 
> ...


Could you compare bde to superfire ? and where did you buy bde from ?


----------



## sareer007 (Jul 11, 2019)

Deleted


----------



## Marcos Fontana

cyh03176 said:


> and mine came with the right cord longer lol.
> 
> im now inclined to get the ann100. so everything is similar to superfire but with a wider soundstage?


Yes and no. The signature is similar, but for my taste, ANN100 is better than Superfire. Soundstage is really important to me and mids, highs (less than mids) in ANN100 are forward. ANN100 is all about details and vocals... but with sufficient bass.


----------



## Marcos Fontana (Jul 11, 2019)

sareer007 said:


> Could you compare bde to superfire ? and where did you buy bde from ?


BDE is more balanced than ANN100. It has less soundstage than ANN100, but you can listen to BDE for hours. BDE has more bass than ANN100 and the bass is not just about the mid bass. Sub bass is present and well controlled. I believe that BDE is not available anymore (I believe that I got the last 2 units). It's unbelievable that BDE is one "old" earbud.

BDE position im my list:

ZoomFred >> K600 >= BDE.

Sorry, I forgot to mention that I bought it from ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/usr/jultoptau?_trksid=p2047675.l2559


----------



## RobinFood

I just had a somewhat unsettling problem with my Smabat. The left driver suddenly lost have its sound and almost all the bass while mid song. I tried different sources and had the same issue. In the end, I pushed down on the mmcx, and rotated it a bit. Nothing seemed to change but it's back to normal now. 

Should I be worried? 
I had Tenmak pro IEMs with rotating MMCXs before for a long time and they never did that...


----------



## mbwilson111

RobinFood said:


> I just had a somewhat unsettling problem with my Smabat. The left driver suddenly lost have its sound and almost all the bass while mid song. I tried different sources and had the same issue. In the end, I pushed down on the mmcx, and rotated it a bit. Nothing seemed to change but it's back to normal now.
> 
> Should I be worried?
> I had Tenmak pro IEMs with rotating MMCXs before for a long time and they never did that...



Maybe you have one from the first batch which had an issue with the  mmcx?  You should be able to get a replacement if you can take a closeup photo of the connector and jack.  The replacement ones look different.

People have posted photos in here of the difference.


----------



## RobinFood

mbwilson111 said:


> Maybe you have one from the first batch which had an issue with the  mmcx?  You should be able to get a replacement if you can take a closeup photo of the connector and jack.  The replacement ones look different.
> 
> People have posted photos in here of the difference.



From the picture I took, it seemed to be the revised edition MMCX. It did it again  
I still have my 30 Amazon days to test it out. Just a shame as I am really enjoying the sound, but I am not sure I trust durability for the price.
I am hoping it is just a fluke, otherwise I will have to look into pulling the money off amazon to get another bud.


----------



## Willber

RobinFood said:


> From the picture I took, it seemed to be the revised edition MMCX. It did it again
> I still have my 30 Amazon days to test it out. Just a shame as I am really enjoying the sound, but I am not sure I trust durability for the price.
> I am hoping it is just a fluke, otherwise I will have to look into pulling the money off amazon to get another bud.


Perhaps it's the cable at fault. Can you try a different one? Or reverse the one you have?


----------



## assassin10000

Try a different cable? Could be a bad wire inside it making intermittent contact.


Edit: @Willber beat me to it.


----------



## cyh03176

Marcos Fontana said:


> New batch arrived:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



just had a look back to your photo. zeva did recommend to use donut foams on the superfire.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

cyh03176 said:


> just had a look back to your photo. zeva did recommend to use donut foams on the superfire.


I didn't know. I will try and inform you.


----------



## RobinFood (Jul 12, 2019)

Willber said:


> Perhaps it's the cable at fault. Can you try a different one? Or reverse the one you have?



Well I switched mmcx cables for the one I had on my Tennmak pro. It turned completely green from the 2 years or so it was in storage...
The cable itself goes down a lot more than the stock cable from the ST-10. Where the stock cable was floating 1-1.5 mm, the Tennmak cable is touching on the right and floating .5 to 1mm on the left...
I listened for a few hours today and no cuts. I felt like the cable made the bass heavier the first time I switched but made some of the imaging less good, but I am pretty sure it is from the green placebo. After a break and listening they sounded great again.

They definitely feel like a step up from the MK2. Details are about the same, but the MK2 brings everything up front really close and it hurts the imaging.
Playing Overwatch with it too, the soundstage and imaging is PERFECT. Everything is exactly as far away as it seems it is. I can even hear if the sound is coming from behind me. I've never been able to hear that from another earbud/IEM/headphone that I own. Listening to Marvin Gaye "Sexual Healing" every percussion seems to come in at a different height. Amazing! This is something I have almost never heard this clearly. Maybe only on the ATH-CM2000Ti.

Even if I have to switch it if it cuts up again, I will get another st-10. It's amazing!


----------



## kurtextrem (Jul 12, 2019)

The NiceHCK ME80 has slightly better bass than the Liebesleid, at least I think so. It slightly over-emphasizes bass over vocals though, but people that like bass might prefer that. Apart from that I can't really hear much difference. Even the cable is almost even lol.
Only big difference is: Liebesleid has a metallic shell, ME80 plastic. Shell size is almost the same I'd say, but Liebesleid has a slightly better fit (with a plastic ring + full foam)

Edit: Vocals (male ones at least) are way better on Liebesleid. ME80 sounds a bit more "airy", which I also like.


----------



## mbwilson111

kurtextrem said:


> The NiceHCK ME80 has slightly better bass than the Liebesleid, at least I think so. It slightly over-emphasizes bass over vocals though, but people that like bass might prefer that. Apart from that I can't really hear much difference. Even the cable is almost even lol.
> Only big difference is: Liebesleid has a metallic shell, ME80 plastic. Shell size is almost the same I'd say, but Liebesleid has a slightly better fit (with a plastic ring + full foam)
> 
> Edit: Vocals (male ones at least) are way better on Liebesleid. ME80 sounds a bit more "airy", which I also like.



The ME80 has a metal shell.. at least mine does.


----------



## kurtextrem

mbwilson111 said:


> The ME80 has a metal shell.. at least mine does.


It feels like plastic shell to me.


----------



## mbwilson111

kurtextrem said:


> It feels like plastic shell to me.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Yea construction on the ME80 is nice. Feel is nice. I like the cable too. RY4S + MMCX is stealing all my time though. It was a very brief honeymoon with ME80 but the Plus is killing it. running balanced into M11 and Im stunned. I have been waiting on others to talk about them because their is such a huge difference between the Plus and the UE that Im thinking I might have a jacked up UE.


----------



## itomu

Spoiler






golov17 said:


> Try this
> 100 Pcs Black Sponge Earbud Headphone Cap Ear Pads Cover Replacement
> http://s.aliexpress.com/MFbuuMri
> (from AliExpress Android)





mbwilson111 said:


> ...and a selection of colors is nice too   Most of these arrived last week.... didn't realize the multipack was 200 foams   I like the quality of these Trig Rain foams.  We have more foams than these of course... all the ones that came with various buds plus some big bags of black ones.
> 
> The colors don't sound different but there might be a psychological effect





assassin10000 said:


> Here you go:
> 
> Store link:
> https://trigrain518946.aliexpress.com/store/group/Foam-ear-pads/518946_509998943.html
> ...










Thank you ! It was very helpful for me. Especially, assassin10000 is very detailed.
The right is thinner foams.For reference.


----------



## mbwilson111

BadReligionPunk said:


> Yea construction on the ME80 is nice. Feel is nice. I like the cable too. RY4S + MMCX is stealing all my time though. It was a very brief honeymoon with ME80 but the Plus is killing it. running balanced into M11 and Im stunned. I have been waiting on others to talk about them because their is such a huge difference between the Plus and the UE that Im thinking I might have a jacked up UE.



I find the ME80 to be extremely fit dependent.   Depending on how I position them I get such different results.  Sometimes they are awesome and sometimes just average (still good).  I think they are a little too big for me.  The thickness.

I have not compared my RY4S Plus to my RY4S UE but I am loving the Plus.  I just assumed they had the same drivers but maybe not.

I also put a balanced cable on mine. but have actually only used it so far with a short SE adapter cable   I will try the Plus with one of my balanced daps soon..  At least when I buy a 2.5 balanced cable I have a choice as to whether or not to use the adapter.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

mbwilson111 said:


> I find the ME80 to be extremely fit dependent.   Depending on how I position them I get such different results.  Sometimes they are awesome and sometimes just average (still good).  I think they are a little too big for me.  The thickness.
> 
> I have not compared my RY4S Plus to my RY4S UE but I am loving the Plus.  I just assumed they had the same drivers but maybe not.
> 
> I also put a balanced cable on mine. but have actually only used it so far with a short SE adapter cable   I will try the Plus with one of my balanced daps soon..  At least when I buy a 2.5 balanced cable I have a choice as to whether or not to use the adapter.


I agree about the ME80 being super fit dependant. It sounds best to me with no foams, but as soon as I walk around the position moves and it sounds very mediocre. I put thick heigi foams on it and it was very distant and boxy. I put thin foams on it and it stays put while walking around but doesn't have the forwardness of no foams, which I like. 

By comparison, I stick VE thin foams on it and they stay in place while walking and sound great. Nice deep bass with good extension. Very different then my UE. The UE has decent bass but its more loose and a bit sloppy in comparison.


----------



## Willber

Willber said:


> I have a problem with my ME80.
> There is an imbalance between left and right which affects the quality of the sound (not just the volume).
> The last time I used them, I noticed that if I covered the rear vent hole on the RH bud the sound changed, as you would expect. However, this change doesn't occur when I cover the LH vent.
> I concluded that the LH vent was blocked in some way, but poking around with a needle hasn't changed it.
> *Does anyone know how to get inside the shell so I can take a look?*



Has anybody opened up one of these yet?


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> Has anybody opened up one of these yet?



I would just contact the seller about the problem.


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> I would just contact the seller about the problem.


I probably will, but I wouldn't bother with the hassle of sending it back. If they just sent me another one that would be ideal.

But I'd still rather fix the one I've got.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> I probably will, but I wouldn't bother with the hassle of sending it back. If they just sent me another one that would be ideal.
> 
> But I'd still rather fix the one I've got.



I think no one wants to open them and risk ruining them.


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> I think no one wants to open them and risk ruining them.


I was hoping one of the serial modders would have a go.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> I was hoping one of the serial modders would have a go.



Sean will ... @seanc6441  opens everything


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> Sean will ... @seanc6441  opens everything


Thanks for the nudge.

Now, how would you like to try a new cable on yours?


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> Now, how would you like to try a new cable on yours?



No I love the cable.  Not going to mess with something that is fine as it is.


----------



## cyh03176

you are missing out a lot. these me80 needs a lot of hours of burn in. sub bass only starts to really show after 50 hours


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> No I love the cable.  Not going to mess with something that is fine as it is.


Oh well.


----------



## mbwilson111

cyh03176 said:


> you are missing out a lot. these me80 needs a lot of hours of burn in. sub bass only starts to really show after 50 hours



Who is missing out?   I have burned mine in for more than 100 hours.


----------



## cyh03176

mbwilson111 said:


> Who is missing out?   I have burned mine in for more than 100 hours.


ok u win, btw i was talking to willber but i forgot to quote hahaha


----------



## Willber

cyh03176 said:


> ok u win, btw i was talking to willber but i forgot to quote hahaha


There's no point in doing much with them until they are fixed.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Would the Yinman 600 with 95 ±3  dB/mW sensitivity be at the top of the most difficult to drive earbuds above the K's 600?


----------



## golov17

WoodyLuvr said:


> Would the Yinman 600 with 95 ±3  dB/mW sensitivity be at the top of the most difficult to drive earbuds above the K's 600?


you should not believe what is written in chi-fi ... I already have the second pair of Simphonio D2 + and both have an impedance of 16 ohms on the specifications box, but in fact both have 28.5 ohms .. also Zen2.0 has 290 ohms, etc.


----------



## assassin10000

courierdriver said:


> mbwilson111 said:
> 
> 
> > Well then,  the Smabat ST-10 was made for you  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32993154088.html
> ...



I have them. Great sounding.  Balanced with a slight sub-bass kick. 

I've worn them for 8+ hours straight. I have fairly small ears, a zsn doesn't fit comfortably for me. If a standard mx500 style earbud fits you, these will too. And they are over ear, so will stay much better too.


----------



## nick n (Jul 13, 2019)

Willber in your signature you have some things coloured red. Are those favourites or?


----------



## 40760 (Jul 13, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I find the ME80 to be extremely fit dependent.   Depending on how I position them I get such different results.  Sometimes they are awesome and sometimes just average (still good).  I think they are a little too big for me.  The thickness.
> 
> I have not compared my RY4S Plus to my RY4S UE but I am loving the Plus.  I just assumed they had the same drivers but maybe not.
> 
> I also put a balanced cable on mine. but have actually only used it so far with a short SE adapter cable   I will try the Plus with one of my balanced daps soon..  At least when I buy a 2.5 balanced cable I have a choice as to whether or not to use the adapter.



I have pretty much prevented myself from purchasing and have been rotating my existing collection, but have recently taken interest in the MMCX versions of the RY4S plus and MX500. Now I don't know which of the two I should get next, but I'd like something that has good bass presentation (akin to the Kube V1, Sabia Pearl or Willsound MK2). I know you own most of them so I'd personally like to hear your opinion before I hit the purchase button.


----------



## itomu (Jul 14, 2019)

Spoiler: picture










FYI...
RY4S MMCX 300 ohm = GM500 driver
RY4S driver =  RY4S MMCX Normal version driver
RY4S HI version driver = RY4S Plus version driver
Thank you RY Earphone Store.

I like listening GM500 UE cable of gentle sound when I'm tired.
(Bass and treble are shy)


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> I have pretty much prevented myself from purchasing and have been rotating my existing collection, but have recently took interest in the MMCX versions of the RY4S plus and MX500. Now I don't know which of the two I should get next, but I'd like something that has good bass presentation (akin to the Kube V1, Sabia Pearl or Willsound MK2). I know you own most of them so I'd personally like to hear your opinion before I hit the purchase button.



I prefer my RY4S Mmcx Plus to my MX500 MMCX.  My500 seems a little bright and seemed to be a little bass light to me.  

I really like the RY4S Plus..  iI have a balanced cable on them but have been using an SE adapter.  Not actually tried them balanced yet.


----------



## HungryPanda

The RY4S MMCX Plus certainly has more bass than the EMX500 MMCX, Closer to the Willsound MK2


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> I prefer my RY4S Mmcx Plus to my MX500 MMCX.  My500 seems a little bright and seemed to be a little bass light to me.
> 
> I really like the RY4S Plus..  iI have a balanced cable on them but have been using an SE adapter.  Not actually tried them balanced yet.



I had the original RY4S quite some years back, but I can't actually recall how they sounded besides them being really good for their price. May I know how you would compare the Plus to the original? If memory serves me right the RY4S already have a good amount of bass. I'm back to using the Kube V1 because that bass and sound presentation is just so addictive. I was hoping to get something in the tune of the Kube V1 but with MMCX, since they are really fragile.


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> I had the original RY4S quite some years back, but I can't actually recall how they sounded besides them being really good for their price. May I know how you would compare the Plus to the original? If memory serves me right the RY4S already have a good amount of bass. I'm back to using the Kube V1 because that bass and sound presentation is just so addictive. I was hoping to get something in the tune of the Kube V1 but with MMCX, since they are really fragile.



Just do it.  I don't think you will be disappointed.  Isn't it just a few dollars?  Get the Plus version.


----------



## 40760 (Jul 13, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Just do it.  I don't think you will be disappointed.  Isn't it just a few dollars?  Get the Plus version.



Think I'll go with the Plus as per your suggestion. But I'll have to take some time to think of which cable to get and preferably from the same store so both items arrive at the same time.


----------



## jogawag (Jul 13, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> The RY4S MMCX Plus certainly has more bass than the EMX500 MMCX, Closer to the Willsound MK2





itomu said:


> ...
> RY4S MMCX 300 ohm = GM500 driver
> RY4S driver =  RY4S MMCX Normal version driver
> RY4S HI version driver = RY4S Plus version driver
> ...





palestofwhite said:


> Think I'll go with the Plus as per your suggestion. But I'll have to take some time to think of which cable to get and preferably from the same store so both items arrive at the same time.



But, RY4S driver(= RY4S MMCX Normal version driver) has more bass than RY4S HI version driver(= RY4S MMCX Plus version driver).
Therefor, RY4S MMCX Normal has more bass than RY4S MMCX Plus, doesn't it?


----------



## 40760 (Jul 13, 2019)

jogawag said:


> But, RY4S driver(= RY4S MMCX Normal version driver) has more bass than RY4S HI version driver(= RY4S MMCX Plus version driver).
> Therefor, RY4S MMCX Normal has more bass than RY4S MMCX Plus, doesn't it?



That's interesting... I have not heard the Plus which I think is not available back then...

Update: Seller said Plus is an improved version that sounds better. Didn't elaborate on sound signature difference though...


----------



## theresanarc

VE Monk Lite vs Hisoundaudio HSA-E351....which would sound better for a clearer more forward sound?

They both use the same shell which is why I'm asking though the Hisoundaudio costs twice as much.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

The Plus sounds similar to the UE to me, but with tighter bass that goes deeper. Stage is a bit better too. A definite upgrade to the UE for me.


----------



## 40760

theresanarc said:


> VE Monk Lite vs Hisoundaudio HSA-E351....which would sound better for a clearer more forward sound?
> 
> They both use the same shell which is why I'm asking though the Hisoundaudio costs twice as much.



Never liked the Monk Lite in 40ohms. My least favourite of the VE lineup.


----------



## mbwilson111

theresanarc said:


> VE Monk Lite vs Hisoundaudio HSA-E351....which would sound better for a clearer more forward sound?
> 
> They both use the same shell which is why I'm asking though the Hisoundaudio costs twice as much.



I just received the Hisoundaudio HSA-E351 earlier this week. Very comfortable and sounds great to me.

I am not good at describing differences. Maybe @HungryPanda will help.  I have the Monk Lite.


----------



## HungryPanda

theresanarc said:


> VE Monk Lite vs Hisoundaudio HSA-E351....which would sound better for a clearer more forward sound?
> 
> They both use the same shell which is why I'm asking though the Hisoundaudio costs twice as much.


 I have just listened to both of these earbuds and have to say I prefer the Hisoundaudio HSA-E351 more than the Monk Lite. It is also easier to drive


----------



## rkw

WoodyLuvr said:


> Would the Yinman 600 with 95 ±3  dB/mW sensitivity be at the top of the most difficult to drive earbuds above the K's 600?


I don't have a K's 600 to compare, but I can confirm that the Yinman 600 is very difficult to drive, needing more power than my full size Sennheiser HD650.


----------



## courierdriver

assassin10000 said:


> I have them. Great sounding.  Balanced with a slight sub-bass kick.
> 
> I've worn them for 8+ hours straight. I have fairly small ears, a zsn doesn't fit comfortably for me. If a standard mx500 style earbud fits you, these will too. And they are over ear, so will stay much better too.


Thanks! I'm gonna search for some reviews on this set. Now that I've got 3 different sets of iems, I'm curious to add a set of really comfy, great sounding buds to my growing collection.


----------



## irv003

doing some custom buds prototype


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> I have just listened to both of these earbuds and have to say I prefer the Hisoundaudio HSA-E351 more than the Monk Lite. It is also easier to drive



How about the monk lite 120 (if you've heard it)?


----------



## 40760

waynes world said:


> How about the monk lite 120 (if you've heard it)?



The Monk Lite 120ohms sounds like a little brother to the Asura 2.0s...


----------



## 40760

After digging around inconclusively, I have decided to put ordering the RY4S on hold for the time being but instead went with a pair of KSC75X.


----------



## waynes world

palestofwhite said:


> After digging around inconclusively, I have decided to put ordering the RY4S on hold for the time being but instead went with a pair of KSC75X.



If you don't have the ksc75's, then you've made the right choice.


----------



## 40760

waynes world said:


> If you don't have the ksc75's, then you've made the right choice.



I had the original one about over 10 years ago and I still quite miss it till this day. So when I found out the KSC75X came in black, I knew I just have to own it again.


----------



## cyh03176

Everyday I see the name RY4S pop up in my emails so I just bought the white plus mmcx version. You guys are like poison.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

cyh03176 said:


> Everyday I see the name RY4S pop up in my emails so I just bought the white plus mmcx version. You guys are like poison.



 how do you get to tell or it sound and bass is better than ue/hi version


----------



## cyh03176

Alex.Grimm said:


> how do you get to tell or it sound and bass is better than ue/hi version


stop lol

i asked the store and since he said plus version has the different drivers and sounds better, i am just going to take his words


----------



## Alex.Grimm

cyh03176 said:


> stop lol
> 
> i asked the store and since he said plus version has the different drivers and sounds better, i am just going to take his words



and told me that its the same


----------



## cyh03176

Alex.Grimm said:


> and told me that its the same


really?  what is the difference between the normal and the plus version that he told you?


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Jul 14, 2019)

cyh03176 said:


> really?  what is the difference between the normal and the plus version that he told you?



No, normal have difference between plus. I tell about plus and hi/ue version. maybe he can't properly explain.  a couple of the above wrote that it sounds better and more bass


----------



## cyh03176

Alex.Grimm said:


> No, normal have difference between plus. I tell about plus and hi/ue version


oh.. then it doesn't matter because i want the mmcx version. i want to use ridiculously thick cable on these.


----------



## HungryPanda

RY4s 300 ohm on the left and RY4S 32 ohm plus version on the right, both with 2.5mm balanced plugs


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 14, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Sean will ... @seanc6441  opens everything


If I had one it would have been opened already 


jogawag said:


> But, RY4S driver(= RY4S MMCX Normal version driver) has more bass than RY4S HI version driver(= RY4S MMCX Plus version driver).
> Therefor, RY4S MMCX Normal has more bass than RY4S MMCX Plus, doesn't it?


The tuning could be different which could affect the bass response. Even minimal differences to bass port size or driver back dampening can make a notable difference in bass levels.

Of course you know this already, but maybe this is why the bass levels do not correlate with the info we know already.


----------



## 40760 (Jul 14, 2019)




----------



## fairx

So how's the ry4s 300ohm? Sound like open back headphone?

I just playing Rise of Nation and and happened to grab ry4s UE. Sound is Wow!


----------



## HungryPanda

The RY4S 300 ohm sounds very good to me


----------



## hal55

I have a holiday coming up and just after a cheap pair of shell type earbuds to throw in the suitcase with a Samsung tablet. Definitely not IEMs, my ears cant stand them. Previously I've used the cheap Monks quite happily, but the foster cats at my place seem to have dragged them off and hidden them somewhere. Would like to try something other than the Monks simply to have a change, was considering the Auglamour RX1 but they seem to be out of production, any suggestions for a still cheap earbud, Monk standard at least, and well suited to a diet of piano, strings, light classical, and vocals. Not interested in rock, opera, metal or thrash. Is there a Monk killer out there for peanut money?


----------



## HungryPanda

￡1.90  21%OFF | Vido Red Earbuds In Ear Earphone Earbud Dynamic Flat Head Plug Earbud HIFI Bass Earbud MX500 Black With Mic
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bLOrp0FA


----------



## jogawag (Jul 15, 2019)

hal55 said:


> I have a holiday coming up and just after a cheap pair of shell type earbuds to throw in the suitcase with a Samsung tablet. Definitely not IEMs, my ears cant stand them. Previously I've used the cheap Monks quite happily, but the foster cats at my place seem to have dragged them off and hidden them somewhere. Would like to try something other than the Monks simply to have a change, was considering the Auglamour RX1 but they seem to be out of production, any suggestions for a still cheap earbud, Monk standard at least, and well suited to a diet of piano, strings, light classical, and vocals. Not interested in rock, opera, metal or thrash. Is there a Monk killer out there for peanut money?


I recommend you Edifier H185, which has clean treble with good detail, and slightly soft bass.
This is fit for piano, strings, light classical, and vocals.


----------



## BrunoC

I recommend the RY4S UE cable or RY4S HI cable.
You can also buy the new RY4S plus MMCX version.


----------



## Willber

hal55 said:


> I have a holiday coming up and just after a cheap pair of shell type earbuds to throw in the suitcase with a Samsung tablet. Definitely not IEMs, my ears cant stand them. Previously I've used the cheap Monks quite happily, but the foster cats at my place seem to have dragged them off and hidden them somewhere. Would like to try something other than the Monks simply to have a change, was considering the Auglamour RX1 but they seem to be out of production, any suggestions for a still cheap earbud, Monk standard at least, and well suited to a diet of piano, strings, light classical, and vocals. Not interested in rock, opera, metal or thrash. Is there a Monk killer out there for peanut money?


Fengru Silver:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32687542028.html

Clear and spacious, perfect for vocals and acoustic music.


----------



## cyh03176

HungryPanda said:


> ￡1.90  21%OFF | Vido Red Earbuds In Ear Earphone Earbud Dynamic Flat Head Plug Earbud HIFI Bass Earbud MX500 Black With Mic
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bLOrp0FA


does this still have the j-type cable?


----------



## cyh03176

hal55 said:


> I have a holiday coming up and just after a cheap pair of shell type earbuds to throw in the suitcase with a Samsung tablet. Definitely not IEMs, my ears cant stand them. Previously I've used the cheap Monks quite happily, but the foster cats at my place seem to have dragged them off and hidden them somewhere. Would like to try something other than the Monks simply to have a change, was considering the Auglamour RX1 but they seem to be out of production, any suggestions for a still cheap earbud, Monk standard at least, and well suited to a diet of piano, strings, light classical, and vocals. Not interested in rock, opera, metal or thrash. Is there a Monk killer out there for peanut money?


for that kind of music, i suggest fengru silvers/tingo tg-38s too


----------



## mbwilson111

cyh03176 said:


> does this still have the j-type cable?



Good question.  You might have to ask the seller.   The original one only had the J cable for the version with no mic.  You could avoid the J by ordering the mic version.  I bought the J cabled white one a few months ago because I knew we would be recabling it anyway.


----------



## hal55

Can anyone comment on the Musicmaker Toneking TP16? Can get them landed in Australia for just over the $20 mark Australian.


----------



## DBaldock9

hal55 said:


> Can anyone comment on the Musicmaker Toneking TP16? Can get them landed in Australia for just over the $20 mark Australian.



There are 420 (now 421) mentions of TP16, when searching in this thread.
I've got a set, and it's been a while since I listened to them - but I do remember that they're quite efficient, and play pretty loud without needing much power.


----------



## hal55

Did find a smattering of positive references to the TP16, hence the question. Didn't find 400 though.


----------



## cyh03176

hal55 said:


> Did find a smattering of positive references to the TP16, hence the question. Didn't find 400 though.


----------



## hal55

Thanks, I have a bit of reading to do tonight while listening to music. Looking forward to it.


----------



## irv003

comparisons vs prototype
top: proto
below: vido / emx500 / ry4s / ty hiz32 / monk v1


----------



## subwoof3r

Do someone still own "*Dasetn MX760*" earbuds here? I felt a nostalgic moment and would like to buy one pair for a DIY project, if possible 
_(grab me via PM if someone want to sell his pair, many thanks!)
_
I remember having an issue with my unit (phase issue), but didn't had any DIY skill at that time, unfortunately.


----------



## cyh03176

demoed edifier h186p/p186 today and its soundstage is very wide.


----------



## HungryPanda

subwoof3r said:


> Do someone still own "*Dasetn MX760*" earbuds here? I felt a nostalgic moment and would like to buy one pair for a DIY project, if possible
> _(grab me via PM if someone want to sell his pair, many thanks!)
> _
> I remember having an issue with my unit (phase issue), but didn't had any DIY skill at that time, unfortunately.


those use the MX760 shells which are easy to get, use them in my self builds  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1975676619.html


----------



## subwoof3r

HungryPanda said:


> those use the MX760 shells which are easy to get, use them in my self builds  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1975676619.html


yep, thanks, but mainly interested in the original drivers that were used from Dasetn, I guess it will be hard to find this


----------



## ClieOS

BM32
Moondrop Chaconne


----------



## golov17

ClieOS said:


> BM32
> Moondrop Chaconne


Is it true that the newest flagship from Moondrop has less bass than its predecessor?


----------



## ClieOS (Jul 17, 2019)

golov17 said:


> Is it true that the newest flagship from Moondrop has less bass than its predecessor?



Liebesleid has more mid bass as well as overall quantity. Chaconne has less bass but reaches down deeper. I won't consider Liebesleid to be a neutral sounding earbud, but Chaconne is closer to being one, though has a richer and ever so slightly warmer tone.


----------



## Jsingh4 (Jul 17, 2019)

So Shiro Yuki Arrived today,
Initial impression is they sound neutral, imaging and stage according to me is satisfactory not very great though.
Decent Bass.
Comparing with my SR2 16ohms 

 I felt Shiro is not as musical as SR2 16ohms although more neutral than SR2 16ohms.

I think some may prefer them for music, but for now I will use them for watching movies and stuff although if you use double foam on them first layer with simple soft foam and second layer with Monk+ foams they felt like full pair of headphones.

Also cable is on a little stiffer side.

I know they look a little ugly with 2 foams but they sound better.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Jsingh4 said:


> So Shiro Yuki Arrived today,
> Initial impression is they sound neutral, imaging and stage according to me is satisfactory not very great though.
> Decent Bass.
> Comparing with my SR 16ohms I felt Shiro is not as musical as SR 16ohms although more neutral than SR 16ohms.


You are probably fully aware of this (but just might have forgotten it ) but it usually does take more than one or two sessions over more than a day or two before your ears will adjust to a new earphone signature.


----------



## DBaldock9

The NiceHCK ME80 earbuds that I ordered at the end of the June Sale, have arrived today.
I installed some Hiegi Donut Foams, and they're connected to: Roku4 [TOSLINK] -> Topping D70 DAC [Single-Ended] -> iBasso PB2 Amp (2x Burson V6 Classic Op-amps, 4x BUF634P Buffers w/Class A Bias Resistor) [Single-Ended] -> ME80.
Listening to HQ Audio Test Tracks on YouTube, the ME80 has a surprisingly full & balanced sound - with a good quantity of fast, low Bass impact; clear, non-recessed Midrange; and airy & detailed Treble.
For the $9.90 Sale Price, they're an especially good deal.


----------



## alvinlim2010

DBaldock9 said:


> The NiceHCK ME80 earbuds that I ordered at the end of the June Sale, have arrived today.
> I installed some Hiegi Donut Foams, and they're connected to: Roku4 [TOSLINK] -> Topping D70 DAC [Single-Ended] -> iBasso PB2 Amp (2x Burson V6 Classic Op-amps, 4x BUF634P Buffers w/Class A Bias Resistor) [Single-Ended] -> ME80.
> Listening to HQ Audio Test Tracks on YouTube, the ME80 has a surprisingly full & balanced sound - with a good quantity of fast, low Bass impact; clear, non-recessed Midrange; and airy & detailed Treble.
> For the $9.90 Sale Price, they're an especially good deal.


I agree they are quite a steal at USD10 - good cable quality, aluminium shell, overall balanced sound but rather dependent on fit. For watching videos without foams provide vocal clarity. For music, with donut foams sound great.


----------



## chinmie

DBaldock9 said:


> The NiceHCK ME80 earbuds that I ordered at the end of the June Sale, have arrived today.
> I installed some Hiegi Donut Foams, and they're connected to: Roku4 [TOSLINK] -> Topping D70 DAC [Single-Ended] -> iBasso PB2 Amp (2x Burson V6 Classic Op-amps, 4x BUF634P Buffers w/Class A Bias Resistor) [Single-Ended] -> ME80.
> Listening to HQ Audio Test Tracks on YouTube, the ME80 has a surprisingly full & balanced sound - with a good quantity of fast, low Bass impact; clear, non-recessed Midrange; and airy & detailed Treble.
> For the $9.90 Sale Price, they're an especially good deal.



 

yup, a good deal indeed. for the price, i can't really find fault in the sound, to be honest. nice balanced tuning, good extension in bass and treble, nice looking and solid build. really reminds me of the Datura. I'd say this is a less warm Datura. if i want to niggle, i want it to be less warm than this, but that's really just my personal preference.

bonus: i also tried the BT20S with my Svara. that works great.
and also tried it with my Willsound MMCX.. works great too.. but i have to wear it upside down like the Xperia ear duo (here's an approximate image description) 






, and it looked a bit weird for me personally.. maybe I'm just not used to it 

but if you dont mind the look, it fits nice and can definitely work. i saw people wearing that Xperia ear duo in the wild (by wild i mean the Tokyo trains) and people seemed to be fine with it


----------



## ClieOS

Moondrop really know how to make beautiful earbuds.


----------



## jogawag

ClieOS said:


> Moondrop really know how to make beautiful earbuds.


How is Chaconne fit and weight on the ear compared to Liebesleid?


----------



## ClieOS

jogawag said:


> How is Chaconne fit and weight on the ear compared to Liebesleid?



Better. The main housing is titanium alloy so it isn't particularly heavy. Only the golden front plate is a bit heavy as it is brass. Liebesleid on the other hand is entirety made out of brass. While it still has a shiny and somewhat slippy finish, the shape of the front plate does have better ergonomics, and it won't feel like it wants to come out all the time.


----------



## chinmie

MX500 shell (Willsound MK1) with the TRN BT20S upside down style


----------



## 40760

Anyone able to share a comparison between the Kube 2.0 vs 1.0? I really like the 1.0 and am thinking if the 2.0 is an upgrade? Will be great if anyone who owns or have heard of them can chime in... Thanks!


----------



## GREQ

palestofwhite said:


> Anyone able to share a comparison between the Kube 2.0 vs 1.0? I really like the 1.0 and am thinking if the 2.0 is an upgrade? Will be great if anyone who owns or have heard of them can chime in... Thanks!


Personally I consider V2 a downgrade.
The bud shells are physically larger so for my ears they are very difficult to position correctly, and are less comfortable.
Upper mids and treble is too quiet compared to the mids and bass which is I consider to be too overpowering. It's a very warm, dark sound.

Here's a link to my non-scientific-but-still-trying-my-best measurements using a miniDSP EARS jig.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2615#post-14727108
The channel imbalance below 100Hz for the Kube V1 is most likely inconsistency with seal, and not driver variation, just one of the problems when trying to measure anything.
I actually made a 2nd measurement later after I got some more practice measuring buds, and that time I got more consistent results between channels, but I'm having difficulty finding it in the thread history.


----------



## 40760

GREQ said:


> Personally I consider V2 a downgrade.
> The bud shells are physically larger so for my ears they are very difficult to position correctly, and are less comfortable.
> Upper mids and treble is too quiet compared to the mids and bass which is I consider to be too overpowering. It's a very warm, dark sound.
> 
> ...



Thanks and that is very interesting read. I do like the EK 1.0 quite a bit and I'm thinking about getting another spare pair.

Can you think of any Chi-Fi pair of earbuds that you think are similar or better than the EK 1.0 in the same price bracket?


----------



## Willber

palestofwhite said:


> Thanks and that is very interesting read. I do like the EK 1.0 quite a bit and I'm thinking about getting another spare pair.
> 
> Can you think of any Chi-Fi pair of earbuds that you think are similar or better than the EK 1.0 in the same price bracket?


I have written this before (!) but I find the Fengru Silver to have a similar signature to the Kube v1 but with more clarity and refinement:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32687542028.html

I'm not the only one to recommend them, either.


----------



## seanc6441

GREQ said:


> Personally I consider V2 a downgrade.
> The bud shells are physically larger so for my ears they are very difficult to position correctly, and are less comfortable.
> Upper mids and treble is too quiet compared to the mids and bass which is I consider to be too overpowering. It's a very warm, dark sound.
> 
> ...


Kube v2 driver in an mx500 (v1) shell would be interesting. Might be the same driver, or not.


----------



## BillyX

ClieOS said:


> Liebesleid has more mid bass as well as overall quantity. Chaconne has less bass but reaches down deeper. I won't consider Liebesleid to be a neutral sounding earbud, but Chaconne is closer to being one, though has a richer and ever so slightly warmer tone.


Will you put Chaconne into your top tier favorite in terms of SQ?


----------



## GREQ

seanc6441 said:


> Kube v2 driver in an mx500 (v1) shell would be interesting. Might be the same driver, or not.


There's a thought... I would try it if I didn't only have one, I don't want any untimely demises.


----------



## ClieOS

BillyX said:


> Will you put Chaconne into your top tier favorite in terms of SQ?



It is too early to draw any conclusion as Moondrop recommends at least 100 hours of burn-in and I barely have 10 hours on it. But I can say at this point I am probably still prefer Bell-Ti over Chaconne just a little more.


----------



## assassin10000

Anyone here interested in my ME80 in the us? 

Thought they were smaller diameter like the EBX but they're mx500 size.



 

150hrs burn-in using the jlab file (mix of noise/sweeps with silence intervals).


----------



## ounwx (Jul 18, 2019)

Just received the *TY Hi-Z HP-32* today from AE, the first of 8 buds I ordered earlier in the month. I'm trying out various options to replace my Senn MX365s, which were recently discontinued. Before this I'd grabed Edifier H180, FAAEAL Snow-Lotus 1.0+ CE, and FAAEAL Datura X via Amazon Prime... none of which ranked better than the trusty MX365s for my uses (mainly listening to hard rock at high volume on the go).

First impressions of HP-32: without foams, I was a little worried. Bright and slightly tinny. Definitely a different signature than I've grown used to. Putting on the foams made a world of difference: still a bit bright, but very clear/detailed, and _awesome_ bass. The low end is so punchy compared to any of the other buds I mentioned above. This is the kind of V-shape-leaning EQ I was hoping for when I first started my search for new buds. Soundstage is relatively wide. Efficiency/volume driven by my phone is great, on par with the MX365s which also get loud. Cable thickness is better than any of my other non-braided pairs, and the L-jack is welcome for mobile use.

Compared to Edifier H180: the HP-32 is cleaner, extends lower and higher, and with far better bass. Both have wide soundstage. Both are on the bright side, but somehow the H180 doesn't manage the clarity you'd expect with that. I see no reason to prefer the H180 in any facet so far.

Compared to MX365 and Snow-Lotus 1.0+ CE (I consider these very similar): the HP-32 is again brighter and cleaner, definitely more V-shaped. The MX365 is probably a bit more forward in some respect with less of a wide soundstage. But overall, the MX365 sounds kind of muddy and boringly mid-centric in a direct comparison.

Finally, these seem to be in the ballpark of what I'm actually looking for. After using these for a few hours, I doubt I can ever go back to the MX365s and be happy again. I'd also return the H180 and SL1.0+ ($13 apiece from Amazon) if I could, as these $6 beauties mop the floor with those, at least for hard rock. If there's anything I'd improve on the HP-32, it would be to make it more forward (in-your-face soundstage wise) and _slightly_ less bright. Maybe one of the other pairs on their way from AE will manage that, but if not, I'll be plenty happy to order 4 more pairs of the HP-32 for the car, office, etc.


----------



## subwoof3r (Jul 19, 2019)

ounwx said:


> Just received the *TY Hi-Z HP-32* today from AE, the first of 8 buds I ordered earlier in the month. I'm trying out various options to replace my Senn MX365s, which were recently discontinued. Before this I'd grabed Edifier H180, FAAEAL Snow-Lotus 1.0+ CE, and FAAEAL Datura X via Amazon Prime... none of which ranked better than the trusty MX365s for my uses (mainly listening to hard rock at high volume on the go).
> 
> First impressions of HP-32: without foams, I was a little worried. Bright and slightly tinny. Definitely a different signature than I've grown used to. Putting on the foams made a world of difference: still a bit bright, but very clear/detailed, and _awesome_ bass. The low end is so punchy compared to any of the other buds I mentioned above. This is the kind of V-shape-leaning EQ I was hoping for when I first started my search for new buds. Soundstage is relatively wide. Efficiency/volume driven by my phone is great, on par with the MX365s which also get loud. Cable thickness is better than any of my other non-braided pairs, and the L-jack is welcome for mobile use.
> 
> ...


Nice, thanks for your impressions!
I can see that those HP-32 have a lot of DIY friends on Earbuds Anonymous group  I would like to give a try too 
Is *this seller* the only one to get HP-32 from aliexpress?
*edit*: found from Penon audio, a better source for sure, and cheaper. Link *HERE*


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Just wondering why the rankings were removed. I was thinking if I couldn't get nice earbuds from aliexpress.


----------



## HeadlessChicken (Jul 19, 2019)

RY4S 300ohm has "meaty" bass, in contrast to the NiceHCK ME80. Really enjoying the RY4S for rock, pop. surprisingly some orchestral as well
using full VE foams on both buds. sources are V20 and R3 in my sig
brief impressions since I haven't had much time to listen recently


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jul 19, 2019)

extrabigmehdi said:


> Just wondering why the rankings were removed. I was thinking if I couldn't get nice earbuds from aliexpress.




You can get many nice earbuds from aliexpress.  If you were hoping for a list ranking all the buds available,that would be impossible.  There are so many now and we would not all agree.

Just do some reading in the thread to get an idea about what is available.  Have fun


----------



## ounwx

subwoof3r said:


> Nice, thanks for your impressions!
> I can see that those HP-32 have a lot of DIY friends on Earbuds Anonymous group  I would like to give a try too
> Is *this seller* the only one to get HP-32 from aliexpress?
> *edit*: found from Penon audio, a better source for sure, and cheaper. Link *HERE*


Nice. For reference, this is what I ordered: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32976364034.html

Apparently the first gen HP-32s without the L-jack were a little different, but those don't seem to be for sale anymore, so I assume everything on the market now matches my description.


----------



## snip3r77

Zlivan said:


> Not sure if anyone posted already, mmcx modded RY4S and plus version here:
> 
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/dJ7FfvW



Is Ry4S plus MMCX the version to get?


----------



## HungryPanda

Only if you want to buy a fancy cable to go with it


----------



## ounwx

Speaking of MMCX: are there any decent bluetooth receivers with that interface you could use to make wireless buds that, unlike anything I've seen in stores, are actually listenable?


----------



## DBaldock9

ounwx said:


> Speaking of MMCX: are there any decent bluetooth receivers with that interface you could use to make wireless buds that, unlike anything I've seen in stores, are actually listenable?



If you don't mind the physical format, the Radsone ES100 is a very good BT Receiver / Amp, with both Single-Ended and Balanced outputs.
Just add an appropriate length MMCX cable, and you'll have a great sounding setup.


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> If you don't mind the physical format, the Radsone ES100 is a very good BT Receiver / Amp, with both Single-Ended and Balanced outputs.
> Just add an appropriate length MMCX cable, and you'll have a great sounding setup.



^ truth!


----------



## TheoS53

ounwx said:


> Speaking of MMCX: are there any decent bluetooth receivers with that interface you could use to make wireless buds that, unlike anything I've seen in stores, are actually listenable?





DBaldock9 said:


> If you don't mind the physical format, the Radsone ES100 is a very good BT Receiver / Amp, with both Single-Ended and Balanced outputs.
> Just add an appropriate length MMCX cable, and you'll have a great sounding setup.



The only receivers which I am aware of that have their own mmcx connectors would be FiiO's RC-BT cable, and then the BT1 and BT2 cables from Shure


----------



## snip3r77

DBaldock9 said:


> If you don't mind the physical format, the Radsone ES100 is a very good BT Receiver / Amp, with both Single-Ended and Balanced outputs.
> Just add an appropriate length MMCX cable, and you'll have a great sounding setup.


Is there such thing as USB-c thumb drive type like the dragonfly in the market ?


----------



## noknok23

Is simphonio D3 worth it if you already own the D2+?

I only found one english review here that describes the earphone in similar ways of D2+
I asked Penon why is he not selling it, he told me he thinks it's "too expensive"
Being a big fan of D2+, after nearly a year I am still impressed by this earphone, was wondering... but maybe I should wait for D3+ or D4


----------



## subwoof3r

TY Hi-Z HP-32 ordered !


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 20, 2019)

Nearly a month has past and I am very happy with my Siamese made _*Kryptonites*_ (original post link *here*)... they are extremely comfortable to wear; their cables are ever so slightly microphonic but not enough to annoy me; they offer a non-fatiguing signature (I am treble and sibilant sensitive); and their bass is quite prominent due to their interesting port holes. All in all quite pleased with em.


----------



## RobinFood

WoodyLuvr said:


> Nearly a month has past and I am very happy with my Siamese made _*Kryptonites*_ (original post link *here*)... they are extremely comfortable to wear; their cables are ever so slightly microphonic but not enough to annoy me); they offer a non-fatiguing signature (I am treble and sibilant sensitive); and their bass is quite prominent due to their interesting port holes. All in all quite pleased with em.



How would you rate them on imaging, soundstage, and realism of instruments?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RobinFood said:


> How would you rate them on imaging, soundstage, and realism of instruments?


Unfortunately, I have way too much work related hearing damage to comfortably offer any _such specific details_ on their sound signature but with that said I am truly quite amazed at how much earbuds in general have come in the recent years to sounding more like open back headphones especially when playing classical pieces. Details wise my Blurs are probably better (larger drivers and shells) but their not as comfortable to wear nor can I wear them all day long like these *Kryptonites*.


----------



## Jsingh4

Can you post some pictures without foam covers and how much did they cost you with shipping


----------



## darmanastartes

My Nicehck ME80 review is up on Head-Fi and my blog!
If you can't tell, I like them way more than the EB2.


----------



## flamesofarctica

Been away from here since late 2017 and been quietly reading away the last few days in catch-up mode.

Has reminded me of the perils of this place..now have the following on order from Ali...

Fengru Silver
Moondrop ShiroYuki
DIY PK2
DIY SR2
Yincrow RW-9
Faeeal Snow Lotus 1.0+ comm.

Now the wait begins :-D

(Plus replacement spare Monk and Vido having given some away over time, and some Vido red just cos).


----------



## ValSilva

darmanastartes said:


> My Nicehck ME80 review is up on Head-Fi and my blog!
> If you can't tell, I like them way more than the EB2.



What is "The Tripowin TP10 ..." that you wrote in this review?


----------



## 40760

So I was told the Fareal (Original Monk) is better in SQ compared to both the Kube V1 and 2.

I'm very intrigued but seems like there are not much owners impression for these?


----------



## itomu

New Models. ELI Audio Sabia V7. Facebook_links.
Looks like everyone enjoys.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 21, 2019)

Jsingh4 said:


> Can you post some pictures without foam covers and how much did they cost you with shipping


*Crystalcore Audio*
Approximately USD 95 converting from Thai Baht to US Dollars. As I live in Thailand it was just a local express delivery.

As requested, here is a close-up pic of the ear buds without foams.


----------



## Jsingh4

WoodyLuvr said:


> Approximately USD 95 converting from Thai Baht to US Dollars. As I live in Thailand it was just a local express delivery.
> 
> As requested, here is a close-up pic of the ear buds without foams.


Thank you so much for replying to the request


----------



## cyh03176

check when you copy & paste bro

"TP10"


----------



## Willber

cyh03176 said:


> check when you copy & paste bro
> 
> "TP10"


It's not clear what/who this is a reply to.


----------



## darmanastartes

cyh03176 said:


> check when you copy & paste bro
> 
> "TP10"


I fixed it. I always use my previous review as a template when writing a new one so I know what beats to hit.


----------



## edwardcd

Were the senso s 250 earbuds on that (massively helpful) list


----------



## Willber

edwardcd said:


> Were the senso s 250 earbuds on that (massively helpful) list


Her is an archived copy of 'the list':

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wGTZnKX1aP29c1bzs5JWgqSUlPzZqV9p_cw79VfRBpQ/pub

I don't know if there is a later version.


----------



## waynes world

Willber said:


> Glad you like them. Now wait and see what they sound like after 50 hours... then 100... they just get better and better, opening up like prize rose.



SR2's in da house (er, "in da ears" to be more precise). Burn in smurn in, who needs it - these sound great out of the box


----------



## Willber

waynes world said:


> SR2's in da house (er, "in da ears" to be more precise). Burn in smurn in, who needs it - these sound great out of the box


You have further joys to come, my friend.


----------



## seanc6441

Willber said:


> You have further joys to come, my friend.


Much further 

If you like them out of box, you'll love them once they have some hours on them. They can punch and reach pretty low.

Can't wait to try the sr2 pro drivers I have on order. I'm hoping they retain the bass of the sr2 and add a slight bit of treble refinement.


----------



## Willber

seanc6441 said:


> If you like them out of box, you'll love them once they have some hours on them. They can punch and reach pretty low..


I agree, but the biggest improvement I found was the opening up of the soundstage.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 21, 2019)

Willber said:


> I agree, but the biggest improvement I found was the opening up of the soundstage.


Well I attribute that to the 'haze' lifting off the upper mids and treble. Seems the both ends become more emphasised but the low mids keep a similar fullness. So it sounds more bassy and more treblely but not weak in the low mids at all. It's very balanced without being flat or V shaped. Somewhere in between.

Out of box it's dull and dark sounding. What's astonishing is how most earbuds that sound dark and mid centric out if the box do not change much at all. Whatever manufacturing procesa went into this driver the matierial must change with movement. Because it's very clearly noticable.

This would be a good candidate for 'before' and 'after' burn in measurements. If the FR has not changed objectively then I'd be shocked.

I wouldn't care to burn in most earbuds but for this one it is an instant suggestion.


----------



## seanc6441

The only area I find the sr2 slightly less than great is the overall detail and soundstage width. But that's more a consequence of the frequency response probably having a few dips in key areas around the upper mids and treble. And to make up for it there's not too much sibilance or harshness at all.

And importantly the tonality is agreeable for vocals and natural instruments too.


----------



## Willber

seanc6441 said:


> Well I attribute that to the 'haze' lifting off the upper mids and treble. Seems the both ends become more emphasised but the low mids keep a similar fullness. So it sounds more bassy and more treblely but not weak in the low mids at all. It's very balanced without being flat or V shaped. Somewhere in between.


I'll bow to your technical expertise but the sound certainly became 'bigger'. I was A/B/Cing it with the Snow Lotus 1.0 and Kube v1 (both spacious buds) so could gauge the change over time.


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> Out of box it's dull and dark sounding.



I never found that to be the case...but I did the burn in anyway because I had to obey the rules


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 21, 2019)

Willber said:


> I'll bow to your technical expertise but the sound certainly became 'bigger'. I was A/B/Cing it with the Snow Lotus 1.0 and Kube v1 (both spacious buds) so could gauge the change over time.


I found the kube v1 a little congested (not exactly narrow but a little compressed or lacking air) but that was initial impressions pre modding and burn in. It may also change after burn in but I couldnt say as I modded mine early.

The snow lotus 1.0+ CE (if you've heard that one) has a respectable fairly spacious soundstage to my ears, a little more than the sr2 with added air also as it's more open and has more refined and extended treble. But again my sr2 does not have 100+ hours burn in so maybe I have more improvements to expect? 

I think imaging quality is slightly more important. Earbud soundstage is still earbud soundstage, it's never going to be 'out of head' and around the room like a speaker system. But good imaging can really make everything seem more realistic and you forget about the soundstage pretty quickly IMO.

That's why the ourart TI7, penon bs1 and my k's ling are quiet special to me. All have moderately spacious soundstages but nothing astonishing. But all three image incredibly well (especially the TI7 in the mids) so it just sounds right and engaging. Instruments and vocals seems like they have a place and are not mushed together.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 21, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I never found that to be the case...but I did the burn in anyway because I had to obey the rules


I bought two, both sounded slightly different out of box. But both improved considerably after burn time.

I remember trying the first one and thinking this can't be the earbud jogawag is recommending, it's so bad... Lol. I wanted to like it but it didn't sound good, so I was forced to give burn in a try for around 10-15 hours and even after that time it had improved.

But the second was just ok at first, still nothing impressive but not as dull as the first out of box.


----------



## Willber

seanc6441 said:


> I found the kube v1 a little congested (not exactly narrow but a little compressed or lacking air) but that was initial impressions pre modding and burn in. It may also change after burn in but I couldnt say as I modded mine early.
> 
> The snow lotus 1.0+ CE (if you've heard that one) has a respectable fairly spacious soundstage to my ears, a little more than the sr2 with added air also as it's more open and has more refined and extended treble. But again my sr2 does not have 100+ hours burn in so maybe I have more improvements to expect?
> 
> ...


I can't argue about the importance of imaging, that is why the Ti7 is on my probably-will list.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 21, 2019)

Willber said:


> I can't argue about the importance of imaging, that is why the Ti7 is on my probably-will list.


it's one of those unashamedly mid centric but very pleasing earbuds. It will suck for any bassy music or anything electronic. But for acoustic and vocals oh boy it's so realistic sounding.

Dual driver TI7 would be a dream. If they had a good solid bass driver and used the ti7 driver for the mids and treble you'd have this glorious dark rich full detailed-refined sounding earbud that would stomp many $250+ earbuds IMO. The mids are that good. The treble is also of good quality but is subdued compared to the mids.


----------



## Willber

seanc6441 said:


> it's one of those unashamedly mid centric but very pleasing earbuds. It will suck for any bassy music or anything electronic. But for acoustic and vocals oh boy it's so realistic sounding.
> 
> Dual driver TI7 would be a dream. If they had a good solid bass driver and used the ti7 driver for the mids and treble you'd have this glorious dark rich full detailed-refined sounding earbud that would stomp many $250+ earbuds IMO. The mids are that good. The treble is also of good quality but is subdued compared to the mids.


That sounds ideal for me. I keep checking to see if the price has come down...


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 21, 2019)

Willber said:


> That sounds ideal for me. I keep checking to see if the price has come down...


The fit is a bit weird not gonna lie, a bit bulky but still around mx500 diameter. I can see it fitting larger ears better than small. It worked for me, but was obviously more comfortable with thin foams and not as form fitting as a pk shell for sure.

I found that thick foams really killed the little treble it has. A thinner donut/full foam or  VE/aliex press black super thin foam sounds best to me.

I do think some of the imaging and soundstage presentation come from it's shell design. The driver sits a few mill back into the housing and the front grille resembles a classic headphone driver design (very open and driver about 50% exposed) compared to the mx500 which pushes the driver closer to the grille and blocks like 90% of the front face.

Most earbud drivers need that extra front dampening to sound right. These little titanium drivers act more like mini headphone drivers and that's how I'd describe their sound too. So full sounding even when seated back an extra few mm.

Behind the driver is remarkably closed off, with only 3 tiny .5mm vents allowing minimal airflow. Also there's no bass tube so maybe this is why extension suffers. But there's no sense of weird closed off sound issues here. It sounds remarkably open and has good separation and air despite its design.

Like picking up a pair of vintage high end sennheiser headphones and plugging them into a good tube amp. Midrange for days


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> I bought two, both sounded slightly different out of box. But both improved considerably after burn time.
> 
> I remember trying the first one and thinking this can't be the earbud jogawag is recommending, it's so bad... Lol. I wanted to like it but it didn't sound good, so I was forced to give burn in a try for around 10-15 hours and even after that time it had improved.
> 
> But the second was just ok at first, still nothing impressive but not as dull as the first out of box.



Mine must be defective, because they sound good out of the box! (ok, maybe it's my ears that are defective lol)


----------



## 40760

Just scored 2 new pairs of Sennheiser MX400 for about US$11. Now patiently awaiting for delivery and to relive the good old nostalgic times...


----------



## ounwx

palestofwhite said:


> Just scored 2 new pairs of Sennheiser MX400 for about US$11. Now patiently awaiting for delivery and to relive the good old nostalgic times...


Interesting. I got some from eBay years ago and I'm 99% sure they're counterfeit, as they sound abysmal compared to all the other buds I've tried. I bought a real pair in a B&M store back in the day, and while it's been too long for me to remember the sound signature at all, I do remember when they were discontinued and I was forced to the MX365 that I thought they were a step down from the MX400.


----------



## ounwx (Jul 21, 2019)

Received a pair of Vidos the other day. Only tested them briefly so far, but they're about what I expected: tending toward dark and veiled, so not my cup of tea at all. Compared to the MX365, they're muddier and much less forward, but they do have better bass. Overall, I get why they have a good rep among bass fans, but they clearly fall into that category of only being impressive with the caveat of their near-zero price point. When legitimately great sounding options are available for $10 and under, though, "good for $3" just doesn't mean much to me.

Oh, and in addition to the poor build quality, I had to mention my pair carried the distinct aroma of hospital equipment out of the box.


----------



## waynes world

Totally OT, but you are the guys and gals that I trust.

My ES100 bluetooth receiver is on it's deathbed (sad!). I'll have to get another one (because it rocks), but it's $160CAD at the moment, so I'm going to have to save up my pennies. I actually don't mind the SQ from my phone, but I hate being tethered to it, so I'd like to get a relatively cheapo bluetooth receiver to tie me over for a while until I get another ES100.

I'm good with the SQ of the APTX codec (android phone). I had a Fiio BTR1 before and I was fine with it's SQ (although it did hiss a bit). I'm looking at the Fiio ubtr for $35CAD. That cheapo price makes me happy for a "tie me over" kind of gizmo. Anyone have experience with it? Or can anyone recommend another <$40US gizmo that sounds decent?

Thanks!


----------



## 40760

ounwx said:


> Interesting. I got some from eBay years ago and I'm 99% sure they're counterfeit, as they sound abysmal compared to all the other buds I've tried. I bought a real pair in a B&M store back in the day, and while it's been too long for me to remember the sound signature at all, I do remember when they were discontinued and I was forced to the MX365 that I thought they were a step down from the MX400.



I'm keeping my fingers crossed as they somewhat appear to be old stock from an unsold local supply.

Some buyer has posted that they arrived in their original boxes as per below:







I'm keeping my fingers crossed though, as my only experience was with the original MX500, though both models share the same shell design...


----------



## WoodyLuvr

waynes world said:


> My ES100 bluetooth receiver is on it's deathbed (sad!). I'll have to get another one (because it rocks), but it's $160CAD at the moment, so I'm going to have to save up my pennies.


Apparently a battery replacement is quite doable with the ES100... food for thought.


----------



## courierdriver

WoodyLuvr said:


> Apparently a battery replacement is quite doable with the ES100... food for thought.


Yeah, +1! The ES100 is a great piece of kit...if I had one, I'd definitely see if it could be repaired for less $.


----------



## waynes world

WoodyLuvr said:


> Apparently a battery replacement is quite doable with the ES100... food for thought.





courierdriver said:


> Yeah, +1! The ES100 is a great piece of kit...if I had one, I'd definitely see if it could be repaired for less $.



Thanks I have an email in with Radsone, but the problem seems to be with the USB connection. I'll see what they say, but I'm fairly sure its toast.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

waynes world said:


> Thanks I have an email in with Radsone, but the problem seems to be with the USB connection. I'll see what they say, but I'm fairly sure its toast.


Also the price has been fluctuating quite frequently on Amazon US for $79. Cant you buy off the US shop and still have it shipped to Canada? Over in the Chifi thread there were a few people in the US buying from the UK site as they had like $150 IEMS on sale for really cheap.
Just a thought. Don't know if it helps you.


----------



## Kumonomukou

ClieOS said:


>



Hello Clieos, How does Kp110 compared to earbuds like Smabat St-10, K'searphone Bell-LB, or BGVP Dx3s?

I mainly used IEMs for my portable devices. I do own two other earbuds recently in Yincrow X6 and Dx3s. X6 was too muddy to me while Dx3s sounded okay but didn't seem to stand out among competition. Plus They're kind large on my ears. (Do I have small ears lol?......O_o). I also have **** from 'Sen___'. I didn't enjoyed it as much as the hype. They're good for the price but somewhat hollow & fatiguing in long listening session IMO. 

I'm looking for a pair of earbuds with clean, lively sound (Closed vocal). MMCX connector & Comfort will also be a plus. I read a lot of good things about St-10, Bell-LB, and Kp110. I want to get better insight in their actual performance. Thank you!


----------



## tnelmo

assassin10000 said:


> @tnelmo
> 
> Here's a link to the earbud rings with fins.
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32810617185.html



Thanks again, @assassin10000 , I ordered these earbud winged rings and love them.  After some manhandling, they fit the Monk+ perfectly and virtually glue them into my ears.  I'm happy enough to do backflips.  Even though I can't physically do backflips any more, I am certain the earbuds would remain in my ears.  While shaking my head forcefully, I couldn't shake them out.


----------



## waynes world

waynes world said:


> Mine must be defective, because they sound good out of the box! (ok, maybe it's my ears that are defective lol)



The SR2's are still sounding very defective (but in that very good way lol). I will indeed be pleasantly surprised if they improve with burn in. Now to rig up a burning station (haven't used one in years) for 6 days of straight burnin'


----------



## assassin10000

tnelmo said:


> Thanks again, @assassin10000 , I ordered these earbud winged rings and love them.  After some manhandling, they fit the Monk+ perfectly and virtually glue them into my ears.  I'm happy enough to do backflips.  Even though I can't physically do backflips any more, I am certain the earbuds would remain in my ears.  While shaking my head forcefully, I couldn't shake them out.



Glad they worked for you.


----------



## ClieOS

Kumonomukou said:


> Hello Clieos, How does Kp110 compared to earbuds like Smabat St-10, K'searphone Bell-LB, or BGVP Dx3s?
> 
> I mainly used IEMs for my portable devices. I do own two other earbuds recently in Yincrow X6 and Dx3s. X6 was too muddy to me while Dx3s sounded okay but didn't seem to stand out among competition. Plus They're kind large on my ears. (Do I have small ears lol?......O_o). I also have **** from 'Sen___'. I didn't enjoyed it as much as the hype. They're good for the price but somewhat hollow & fatiguing in long listening session IMO.
> 
> I'm looking for a pair of earbuds with clean, lively sound (Closed vocal). MMCX connector & Comfort will also be a plus. I read a lot of good things about St-10, Bell-LB, and Kp110. I want to get better insight in their actual performance. Thank you!



DX3s is an okay earbud - a bit on the warm and smooth side, doesn't really excel in any particular area and definitely doesn't suit analytical listener. K's LBB on the other hand has a slightly warmish but mostly balanced sound, with an excellent price/performance ratio nonetheless. KP110 has a slightly cold sound with good detail and very opened sound, if not just a tiny bit dry on vocal. The only downside is that you need to wear it right as it doesn't have the most ergonomics of design. ST-10 is closer to reference flat and probably the best sounding of the four, but also the most expensive of the group.On a five tier scale, I'll consider ST-10 as either a lower first-tier or upper 2nd-tier. While LBB and KP110 are close to a mid 2nd-tier though I prefer LBB just a little bit over KP110 as LBB has a more versatile sound. DX3s is close to a mid or upper-mid tier.


----------



## Kumonomukou

ClieOS said:


> DX3s is an okay earbud - a bit on the warm and smooth side, doesn't really excel in any particular area and definitely doesn't suit analytical listener. K's LBB on the other hand has a slightly warmish but mostly balanced sound, with an excellent price/performance ratio nonetheless. KP110 has a slightly cold sound with good detail and very opened sound, if not just a tiny bit dry on vocal. The only downside is that you need to wear it right as it doesn't have the most ergonomics of design. ST-10 is closer to reference flat and probably the best sounding of the four, but also the most expensive of the group.On a five tier scale, I'll consider ST-10 as either a lower first-tier or upper 2nd-tier. While LBB and KP110 are close to a mid 2nd-tier though I prefer LBB just a little bit over KP110 as LBB has a more versatile sound. DX3s is close to a mid or upper-mid tier.



That's all I need to know. Thanks a lot!


----------



## 40760

A little OT, but something really interesting to note, the Massdrop KSC75X arrived today and the cable it comes with is almost identical to the Kube V1 (less the mic module).


----------



## Matarro

waynes world said:


> Thanks I have an email in with Radsone, but the problem seems to be with the USB connection. I'll see what they say, but I'm fairly sure its toast.



Might be what happened to my ES100 a few months ago. I couldn't get my computer to recognize it which meant I couldn't update it, eventually it also stopped charging. I somewhat accidentally fixed it by tapping it firmly with my finger a few times. I don't advocate violent solutions but I was away for work and the prospect of spending a night at a boring hotel without music made me resort to desperate measures. Anyway, probably a bad circuit and I've been expecting the issue to reoccur but it's been months and it's been working perfectly so knock on wood (and knock on the ES100 too, I guess).

My little experience with Radsone's support have been very positive so hopefully they will be able to solve your problem or replace your unit. Let us know what happens!


----------



## groucho69

Matarro said:


> Might be what happened to my ES100 a few months ago. I couldn't get my computer to recognize it which meant I couldn't update it, eventually it also stopped charging. I somewhat accidentally fixed it by tapping it firmly with my finger a few times. I don't advocate violent solutions but I was away for work and the prospect of spending a night at a boring hotel without music made me resort to desperate measures. Anyway, probably a bad circuit and I've been expecting the issue to reoccur but it's been months and it's been working perfectly so knock on wood (and knock on the ES100 too, I guess).
> 
> My little experience with Radsone's support have been very positive so hopefully they will be able to solve your problem or replace your unit. Let us know what happens!


----------



## golov17

http://www.audiomuse.eu/articles/new-review/simphonio-dragon3/


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 24, 2019)

golov17 said:


> http://www.audiomuse.eu/articles/new-review/simphonio-dragon3/


Great review, thanks for sharing! Looks like the "_*Reign of 150/300Ω Tier-One Earbuds*_" may be falling upon us and the "*Age of 16/32Ω TOTL Earbuds*" is now over... all hail higher ohms!


----------



## golov17

WoodyLuvr said:


> Great review, thanks for sharing! Looks like the "_*Reign of 150/300Ω Tier-One Earbuds*_" may be falling upon us and the "*Age of 16/32Ω TOTL Earbuds*" is now over... all hail higher ohms!


Well, first dragon have 150 ohm too..


----------



## WoodyLuvr

golov17 said:


> Well, first dragon have 150 ohm too...


Yes, indeed they were but that was pre-"*Age of 16/32Ω TOTL Earbuds*"... they came out during the "_*Golden Age of Earbuds*_"


----------



## music4mhell

Can i get some Bluetooth earbud suggestions with mic from Aliexpress ?

Thanks in advance !


----------



## RobinFood

ClieOS said:


> DX3s is an okay earbud - a bit on the warm and smooth side, doesn't really excel in any particular area and definitely doesn't suit analytical listener. K's LBB on the other hand has a slightly warmish but mostly balanced sound, with an excellent price/performance ratio nonetheless. KP110 has a slightly cold sound with good detail and very opened sound, if not just a tiny bit dry on vocal. The only downside is that you need to wear it right as it doesn't have the most ergonomics of design. ST-10 is closer to reference flat and probably the best sounding of the four, but also the most expensive of the group.On a five tier scale, I'll consider ST-10 as either a lower first-tier or upper 2nd-tier. While LBB and KP110 are close to a mid 2nd-tier though I prefer LBB just a little bit over KP110 as LBB has a more versatile sound. DX3s is close to a mid or upper-mid tier.



I will regret asking, having just gotten the ST-10 and enjoying it quite a bit, but what would a top mid to top-tier earbud be? 
I can't quite imagine it right now, but then again I was quite surprised by the jump I got from the MK2 to the ST-10.

I also found that the ST-10 struggles a little with my wife's supr-fast-paced ACG collection (ER4 is slightly faster there). Would the Ourart ACG be better for separating that mess of high-paced instruments?


----------



## subwoof3r

RobinFood said:


> I will regret asking, having just gotten the ST-10 and enjoying it quite a bit, but what would a top mid to top-tier earbud be?
> I can't quite imagine it right now, but then again I was quite surprised by the jump I got from the MK2 to the ST-10.
> 
> I also found that the ST-10 struggles a little with my wife's supr-fast-paced ACG collection (ER4 is slightly faster there). Would the Ourart ACG be better for separating that mess of high-paced instruments?


For me (and for many here) ST-10 is top-tier.
for now it is still my main reference for non-DIY earbuds  love to play with different MMCX cables with it, as it sounds even much better than with its stock cable.


----------



## ClieOS

RobinFood said:


> I will regret asking, having just gotten the ST-10 and enjoying it quite a bit, but what would a top mid to top-tier earbud be?
> I can't quite imagine it right now, but then again I was quite surprised by the jump I got from the MK2 to the ST-10.
> 
> I also found that the ST-10 struggles a little with my wife's supr-fast-paced ACG collection (ER4 is slightly faster there). Would the Ourart ACG be better for separating that mess of high-paced instruments?



Some of the usual suspects: Shozy BK balanced, Moondrop Liebesleid and Chaconne, Blox TM9, Rose Mojito, Simphonio SWD2+ - probably misses a few as even I haven't heard them all.

Can't say I know as ToTL earbuds that is particular well suited for ACG. I haven't listened to OurArt ACG before so I can't comment on it.


----------



## jogawag

ClieOS said:


> Some of the usual suspects: Shozy BK balanced, Moondrop Liebesleid and Chaconne, Blox TM9, Rose Mojito, Simphonio SWD2+ - probably misses a few as even I haven't heard them all.
> 
> Can't say I know as ToTL earbuds that is particular well suited for ACG. I haven't listened to OurArt ACG before so I can't comment on it.


How do you think about Bell-Ti?


----------



## RuFrost

subwoof3r said:


> For me (and for many here) ST-10 is top-tier.
> for now it is still my main reference for non-DIY earbuds  love to play with different MMCX cables with it, as it sounds even much better than with its stock cable.


Can you ellborate on the cables you try,please? Photos? Place to buy from? Sound changes?


----------



## subwoof3r

RuFrost said:


> Can you ellborate on the cables you try,please? Photos? Place to buy from? Sound changes?


I found everything I needed thanks to *THIS* thread 

I have two pairs of ST-10, one sounds a bit more mid-centric than the other one. So choice between cables is crucial, generally speaking pure silver brings better details and mids, while taming a bit subbass. Copper is the contrary.
All depends of which kind of signature you are looking for, and comfort of the cable.

Some samples from me :


----------



## ClieOS

jogawag said:


> How do you think about Bell-Ti?



Bell-Ti, both low and high impedance version, are definitely ToTL. A well driven Zen 2 black or white, as well as a well driver Zeva Lord.E also fit the bill. Again, there might be a few I missed as I am not really counting here - this should tell you there are more ToTL earbuds on the market these days than just about anytime in history. We are not the dying breed.


----------



## irv003

old skool, mdr-w20


----------



## RobinFood

ClieOS said:


> Bell-Ti, both low and high impedance version, are definitely ToTL. A well driven Zen 2 black or white, as well as a well driver Zeva Lord.E also fit the bill. Again, there might be a few I missed as I am not really counting here - this should tell you there are more ToTL earbuds on the market these days than just about anytime in history. We are not the dying breed.



Have you heard the Zoomfred or Red Dragon?
How does the Dragon S2+ compare to the ST-10.
Also with all the planar magnetic iems coming out, do you see planar magnetic earbuds being a thing in the near future?


----------



## kingdixon

3 month back i went for smabat st10 since i liked the reviews pretty much, i never received it though 

Iam going to dispute for refund, but kept reading about more earbuds, came across the rose masya pro in budget, i think from what i read it would be better over all but iam a bit worried about the bass , since i really liked what i read about the smabat bass, should i just add the difference towards the masya pro, or reorder the st10 ?

To avoid repeated questions, I searched online, also through this thread and found no direct comparison, found one with the original masya, but it is said that bass improved on the pro version.

I heard none of them.


----------



## ClieOS

RobinFood said:


> Have you heard the Zoomfred or Red Dragon?
> How does the Dragon S2+ compare to the ST-10.
> Also with all the planar magnetic iems coming out, do you see planar magnetic earbuds being a thing in the near future?



I listened to Zoomfred (another ToTL) briefly in the past, but not the Red Dragon.

Not sure what 'Dragon S2+' is, you mean SW-Dragon 2+ (SWD2+)? If it is the latter, it is quite a fun and dynamic earbuds, if not a bit on the bright side. ST-10, especially the original version, is reference flat. The revised (new MMCX) version is just very slightly warmer, but I'll still consider it a rather flat and neutral sounding earbud. ST-10 is actually not far off from being a top-tier. Depends on different listening preference, one might even consider it a top-tier. But to me I think ST-10 is technically proficient to compete at the top level, just that it lacks a sense of grandness.

Can't say I won't love to see a true planar earbud myself, but it really is up to the manufacturer. One thing is certain, we already have all the tech to make one happens, just need to tune the driver for a right sound.


----------



## RobinFood

After my ST-10 left mmcx connector kept connecting off all the time, I exchanged it with Amazon for another set. In three days I haven't had a single issue with sound cutting off anything like that.
There was a bit of glue residue in one the vents, but I finally managed to get rid of it with a camera cloth with a small dab of lighter fluid.
The tuning seems different though. Maybe the other set was defective? The vocals are much more forward on this one, and it sounds a little warmer (both were the updated version).

Overall, the new set sounds more correct, it always took me time to adjust to the other set. 
The crystal clear imaging is the same, and the soundstage width is the same, but I lost a little depth and sounds less like the ATH-CM2000ti than the previous one did (which is too bad, but I did put it up too loud to hear the singer in the back.)
The new one seems to have better bass slam though.

This set sounds a lot more like the ER4XR. Very nice sound but it got me thinking about the amount of variance there can be with the same earbuds.


----------



## Zerohour88 (Jul 25, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> Bell-Ti, both low and high impedance version, are definitely ToTL. A well driven Zen 2 black or white, as well as a well driver Zeva Lord.E also fit the bill. Again, there might be a few I missed as I am not really counting here - this should tell you there are more ToTL earbuds on the market these days than just about anytime in history. We are not the dying breed.



I'm still so damn on the fence about getting the Zeva Lord.E. The standard MX500 shell throws me off, despite knowing its quite a good fit. There's also the MMCX version too.

Are they working on new TOTL models or is it a good bet to just get the Lord.E now?


----------



## ClieOS

Zerohour88 said:


> I'm still so damn on the fence about getting the Zeva Lord.E. The standard MX500 shell throws me off, despite knowing its quite a good fit. There's also the MMCX version too.
> 
> Are they working on new TOTL models or is it a good bet to just get the Lord.E now?



No idea.


----------



## DBaldock9

Today at work, I enjoyed using my Zishan DSD as a USB DAC for my PC, driving my VE Zen 2.0 ZOE with the Balanced output - listening to a Tidal Vocal Jazz playlist. 
. 
Even with the 300-Ohm Zen, the Volume on the DSD only needed to be turned up to 15-16 (out of 30) - to be plenty loud and drown out office noise.


----------



## skycracksopen (Jul 26, 2019)

DBaldock9 said:


> Today at work, I enjoyed using my Zishan DSD as a USB DAC for my PC, driving my VE Zen 2.0 ZOE with the Balanced output - listening to a Tidal Vocal Jazz playlist.
> .
> Even with the 300-Ohm Zen, the Volume on the DSD only needed to be turned up to 15-16 (out of 30) - to be plenty loud and drown out office noise.



I am thinking of getting the Hiby R6 Pro (since the R3 isn't really doing it for me) and getting some nice balanced earbuds to go with it.

Would the R6 Pro would be able to drive the VE Zen 2.0 well?  I'd rather just go straight DAP to headphones if possible, since I often have the DAP in my pocket and want to avoid excess gear.

If anybody has a better recommendation for earbuds and DAP in a similar price range, I'm all ears...


----------



## deco cat

crabdog said:


> The MEMT T5 - not the best sounding bud out there but the overall package makes it great value.
> https://primeaudio.org/memt-t5-earbud-review/



What could be a good equalization profile for those?


----------



## crabdog

deco cat said:


> What could be a good equalization profile for those?


I don't use EQ.


----------



## golov17

Who knows about the sound upgraded kc08 40 ohm?
https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/ostry...oofer-hifi-dynamic-music-phone-earphones.html


----------



## cathee

golov17 said:


> Who knows about the sound upgraded kc08 40 ohm?
> https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/ostry...oofer-hifi-dynamic-music-phone-earphones.html



That's a pretty sweet looking pair right there.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 28, 2019)

kingdixon said:


> 3 month back i went for smabat st10 since i liked the reviews pretty much, i never received it though
> 
> Iam going to dispute for refund, but kept reading about more earbuds, came across the rose masya pro in budget, i think from what i read it would be better over all but iam a bit worried about the bass , since i really liked what i read about the smabat bass, should i just add the difference towards the masya pro, or reorder the st10 ?
> 
> ...


The original masya had a rounded but fairly subdued bass. Sub bass was particularly subdued. Although it could be EQ'd in somewhat. Compared to the Mojito it could be considered bass light. I don't know about the Masya pro other than what I've read but I don't think it is going to be a massive quantity increase from the old masya only a minor change. So if you want impactful bass you may want to look elsewhere like the Willsound MK2 MMCX. It's around $32 without cable. You could buy a cable separately from aliexpress or elsewhere.

I always like to recommend the Willsound as a starting bud that's not strictly in the budget category because it does everything well enough and has a pretty versatile sound and almost everyone here owns one lol! So you can use it as a reference when buying new earbuds.


----------



## seanc6441 (Jul 28, 2019)

skycracksopen said:


> I am thinking of getting the Hiby R6 Pro (since the R3 isn't really doing it for me) and getting some nice balanced earbuds to go with it.
> 
> Would the R6 Pro would be able to drive the VE Zen 2.0 well?  I'd rather just go straight DAP to headphones if possible, since I often have the DAP in my pocket and want to avoid excess gear.
> 
> If anybody has a better recommendation for earbuds and DAP in a similar price range, I'm all ears...


Zen is a bit dark but maybe that's what you're looking for. Also it's used without foams, so it's not going to have much sub bass extension without any seal.

I thought the penon bs1 official paired particularly well with my hiby R6 (non pro version) while I had it. Sounded really engaging. But that earbud has a fairly heavy cable compared to most. For me that's a problem but for others Its not an issue.

Fantastic earbud that's build, looks and sound are very premium but the cable practicality is only so-so. You can get it in 2.5mm balanced too.

I'd take it over the zen 2.0 for sound though. Better balance sweeter upper mids but retains good vocal body. Not neutral but neither is the Zen.

I felt at first it was a little light on the sub bass, but going back to it I feel it has jist enough for most genres other than EDM or bass orientated tracks. Maybe burn in did something or maybe it was just my brain adjusting. You get better bass with foams than the zen 2.0 without foams that's for sure, both in quantity and in presentation. Better highs too, very smooth but has sparkle. The zen 2.0 has recessed highs in comparison.

Keep in mind im not dissing the zen, i like it for what it is, a very dark but fairly detailed and very relaxing sound.


----------



## Willber

seanc6441 said:


> Zen is a bit dark but maybe that's what you're looking for. Also it's used *with foams*, so it's not going to have much sub bass extension without any seal.


Shouldn't that be 'without foams'?


----------



## kingdixon

seanc6441 said:


> The original masya had a rounded but fairly subdued bass. Sub bass was particularly subdued. Although it could be EQ'd in somewhat. Compared to the Mojito it could be considered bass light. I don't know about the Masya pro other than what I've read but I don't think it is going to be a massive quantity increase from the old masya only a minor change. So if you want impactful bass you may want to look elsewhere like the Willsound MK2 MMCX. It's around $32 without cable. You could buy a cable separately from aliexpress or elsewhere.
> 
> I always like to recommend the Willsound as a starting bud that's not strictly in the budget category because it does everything well enough and has a pretty versatile sound and almost everyone here owns one lol! So you can use it as a reference when buying new earbuds.



Thanks sean,

Appreciate your input !


----------



## seanc6441

Willber said:


> Shouldn't that be 'without foams'?


Yeah corrected that. Thanks!


----------



## skycracksopen

I feel like about half the pictures I see online show them with foams.

Did the manufacturer recommend no foams?

I prefer foams because I can easily toss them every week or two when they become dirty, and I usually find it more comfortable, too.


----------



## sareer007

Can someone listen to this and tell me how they did this? Soundstage of my earbuds just exploded and voices were way out of my head.


----------



## Willber

sareer007 said:


> Can someone listen to this and tell me how they did this? Soundstage of my earbuds just exploded and voices were way out of my head.


I have no idea how that works but it is very impressive. Some sort of binaural set-up?
Try one bud at a time then both together and the difference is amazing.


----------



## sareer007

I want this kind of stage in all songs. Is this kind of stage possible for any earbuds for normal songs ?


----------



## Kumonomukou (Jul 28, 2019)

Good news for people who interested in smaller version of Smabat ST-10! Just spoke to a distributor, and was told that the manufacturers are working on it. The actual product could be introduced in a couple months. I'm curious to see how it will perform with the smaller drivers.






AIso I discovered a pair of interesting looking earbuds named 'Laysound Pislo'. I was hooked in the first glance, but wait until I saw the price tag. They're quite expensive and currently rated around $670 USD. I wonder how many people are actually willing to get a chance to hear them...


----------



## assassin10000

Kumonomukou said:


> Good news for people who interested in smaller version of Smabat ST-10! Just spoke to a distributor, and was told that the manufacturers are working on it. The actual product could be introduced in a couple months. I'm curious to see how it will perform with the smaller drivers.
> 
> 
> 
> AIso I discovered a pair of interesting looking earbuds named 'Laysound Pislo'. I was hooked in the first glance, but wait until I saw the price tag. They're quite expensive and currently rated around $670 USD. I wonder how many people are actually willing to get a chance to hear them...



Nice. I am. I've been on the fence on selling them as I like the st-10 sound but fit isn't 100% there for my small ears. Some days I can't wear them very long.


670? What's so special about them?


----------



## ClieOS

assassin10000 said:


> Nice. I am. I've been on the fence on selling them as I like the st-10 sound but fit isn't 100% there for my small ears. Some days I can't wear them very long.
> 
> 
> 670? What's so special about them?



Reported both awhile ago - Pislo use piezoelectric drivers. I have not seen any real review on it since its release a few months ago.


----------



## RobinFood

I heard that the Monk and Zen use the same drivers, just the cable and resistance is different.
Would it be possible to get a Zen from a monk with a re-cable and by adding resistor adapters?


----------



## Raketen (Jul 29, 2019)

RobinFood said:


> I heard that the Monk and Zen use the same drivers, just the cable and resistance is different.
> Would it be possible to get a Zen from a monk with a re-cable and by adding resistor adapters?



Dubious. Driver impedance & sensitivity are different, cables don't have resistors, don't think very small differences in conductor resistance would have perceivable effect on a dynamic driver.

If you enjoy that sort of thing you could probably have fun modding a Monk though, and very affordable.


----------



## kingdixon

so i passed on the smabat st10 since i didn't receive it and opened a dispute on ali.

i went for some willsound earbuds to try out, i had mk2 in mind and wanted to try mk150 and some custom build he had it on the facebook page .. but strange enough the paypal transaction kept getting rejected.

so i ended up buying from rholupat also through paypal and the transaction passed normally, but was limited to what was available in stock one of each mk1 , mk2 , mk3.


----------



## Scottyyy

Hey guys

My Pioneer SE-CE521-K's have finally died after 6-7 years so I'm looking for a replacement. I've pretty much decided on these: Snow lotus 1.0+

I've heard good things about the RY4S as well, but I'm confused about all the versions. I've heard the "UE cable" version is the best, but on the RY store on aliexpress I can't find any reference to UE anywhere. Can someone link me specifically to the best version of the RY's please? I'll buy both the snow lotus and the RY's to compare.

Thanks very much


----------



## Willber

RobinFood said:


> I heard that the Monk and Zen use the same drivers, just the cable and resistance is different.
> Would it be possible to get a Zen from a monk with a re-cable and by adding resistor adapters?


They do not use the same drivers. The impedance (measured in ohms) is dependent on the thickness and number of windings in the driver coil (simplistically: higher impedance = thinner/more windings = more precise sound). This is independent of which cable is used.


----------



## Willber

Scottyyy said:


> Hey guys
> 
> My Pioneer SE-CE521-K's have finally died after 6-7 years so I'm looking for a replacement. I've pretty much decided on these: Snow lotus 1.0+
> 
> ...


I've said it before(!) and I'll say it again, I prefer the Fengru Silver to both of those you mention:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32687542028.html

It's not just me, they get a lot of praise on here. For less than $5 I would add them to your basket.


----------



## Scottyyy

Willber said:


> I've said it before(!) and I'll say it again, I prefer the Fengru Silver to both of those you mention:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32687542028.html
> 
> It's not just me, they get a lot of praise on here. For less than $5 I would add them to your basket.



Added!

I figured out the UE cable thing for the RY's. You need to hover over the colour options, the UE cable is the first 2.

I'll order all 3.


----------



## Willber

Scottyyy said:


> Added!
> 
> I figured out the UE cable thing for the RY's. You need to hover over the colour options, the UE cable is the first 2.
> 
> I'll order all 3.


Good choice!

(Also, I have the RY4S both with and without the UE cable. The UE is better IMO.)


----------



## Scottyyy

Well this is weird. Tried to order the snow lotus' with my card, payment failed. Tried again, same thing. Tried to order the RY's since the seller accepts paypal. Payment eventually went through after processing for a few mins, but the order still says closed on my aliexpress account.

First time ever using aliexpress. Is this a normal thing? Any ideas how to fix the issue with paying with my debit card?


----------



## RobinFood

Willber said:


> They do not use the same drivers. The impedance (measured in ohms) is dependent on the thickness and number of windings in the driver coil (simplistically: higher impedance = thinner/more windings = more precise sound). This is independent of which cable is used.



Thank you for the information. I did not know that was what made the sound more precise. It makes sense too, at least I won't be wasting my time trying to re-cable my Monk!


----------



## RobinFood

Sad news on my replacement Smabat ST-10...it started rattling on the left earbud below 50 hz. Something didn't sound right after burning in (listening to it for a few hours) and a few frequency tests showed horrible rattling in the left ear, and some popping in the right ear. I did the sucking trick, and it helped, but didn't completely fix the problem. Maybe it's a curse, if I can't fix it tomorrow with more sucking I think I will hold off and wait for something else. My Willsound MK2 is over a year old and has no hint of rattling using the same test, hurrah for that!


----------



## Willber

Scottyyy said:


> Well this is weird. Tried to order the snow lotus' with my card, payment failed. Tried again, same thing. Tried to order the RY's since the seller accepts paypal. Payment eventually went through after processing for a few mins, but the order still says closed on my aliexpress account.
> 
> First time ever using aliexpress. Is this a normal thing? Any ideas how to fix the issue with paying with my debit card?


I've never used Paypal on AE but if you message the seller they might be able to help.
Using my credit card I have always found AE to be reliable.


----------



## Scottyyy

Willber said:


> I've never used Paypal on AE but if you message the seller they might be able to help.
> Using my credit card I have always found AE to be reliable.



I think it's a problem with the new user coupon. I just ordered the Fengru's without the coupon and it went through fine.

Unfortunately aliexpress are how holding about £25 hostage from me until they get around to refunding it. Because of a stupid coupon they offered me.


----------



## Willber

Sorry, I can't help, I've never used a coupon.


----------



## Scottyyy

Willber said:


> Sorry, I can't help, I've never used a coupon.



It's ok, it's sorted now. When your order gets cancelled for "security reasons" they actually take your money then refund it. How long it takes to refund the money I have no idea, but hopefully soon.

I've ordered the Fengru's and I'll order the other 2 when Aliexpress refunds me. I just won't use the coupon next time.


----------



## Willber

Scottyyy said:


> It's ok, it's sorted now. When your order gets cancelled for "security reasons" they actually take your money then refund it. How long it takes to refund the money I have no idea, but hopefully soon.
> 
> I've ordered the Fengru's and I'll order the other 2 when Aliexpress refunds me. I just won't use the coupon next time.


Well, at least the best ones are on their way!


----------



## ounwx

Willber said:


> Good choice!
> 
> (Also, I have the RY4S both with and without the UE cable. The UE is better IMO.)


Out of curiosity, how would you describe the sonic differences between the UE and non-UE?


----------



## ounwx

Scottyyy said:


> Hey guys
> 
> My Pioneer SE-CE521-K's have finally died after 6-7 years so I'm looking for a replacement. I've pretty much decided on these: Snow lotus 1.0+
> 
> ...


In my opinion, the SL1.0+ and RY4S are quite different, to the point that I imagine most people would strongly prefer one over the other. The SL is very mid-centric and flat, while the RY4S is bright and emphasizes treble. Both have a relatively narrow soundstage and neither has a ton of bass. Hope this helps some. BTW, I have the cheaper/non-UE version of RY4S, so can't necessarily comment on the UE.


----------



## Willber

ounwx said:


> Out of curiosity, how would you describe the sonic differences between the UE and non-UE?


I haven't listened to either for a long time but from memory the UE had better details and stronger lows.


----------



## ounwx

Willber said:


> I haven't listened to either for a long time but from memory the UE had better details and stronger lows.


Good to know. Just received the non-UE a couple days ago, along with the Fengru Silver and EMX500. I had high hopes for the RY4S given its reputation here and my preference for brighter and more forward sound, but so far it just seems a little too thin and lacking in bass. May have to try the UE at some point.

I'm impressed with the Silvers, considering their relaxed base signature isn't usually what I like. They are pretty inefficient and don't get loud enough driven by my phone, though. Planning to post a big comparison between the ~10 buds I've amassed so far soon.


----------



## Willber

ounwx said:


> Planning to post a big comparison between the ~10 buds I've amassed so far soon.


Good to hear - real-world comparisons are always good.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

ounwx said:


> Good to know. Just received the non-UE a couple days ago, along with the Fengru Silver and EMX500. I had high hopes for the RY4S given its reputation here and my preference for brighter and more forward sound, but so far it just seems a little too thin and lacking in bass. May have to try the UE at some point.
> 
> I'm impressed with the Silvers, considering their relaxed base signature isn't usually what I like. They are pretty inefficient and don't get loud enough driven by my phone, though. Planning to post a big comparison between the ~10 buds I've amassed so far soon.


I find that the Ry4s plus mmcx has even more bass then the UE ver. Also much tighter and cleaner. My personal pick of the 2.


----------



## activatorfly

Lately been pairing Cayin N3 with NX4’s DAC....sounds superb!


----------



## Willber

BadReligionPunk said:


> I find that the Ry4s plus mmcx has even more bass then the UE ver. Also much tighter and cleaner. My personal pick of the 2.


Can anyone share a comparison between the RY4S Plus 32ohm and 300ohm versions?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Willber said:


> Can anyone share a comparison between the RY4S Plus 32ohm and 300ohm versions?


@HungryPanda 
Has both. I was going to buy the 300ohm, but backed out at last minute.


----------



## Willber

BadReligionPunk said:


> @HungryPanda
> Has both. I was going to buy the 300ohm, but backed out at last minute.


Thanks - hopefully he gets the alert...


----------



## infamousas

Any decent upgrade to Edifier 180? 
I can't use in ear.  
I was thinking of maybe TY Hi-Z HP32 2.0 or RY45+ 32 ohm. I like the thick mmcx cables so maybe an ear bud with mmcx connections.  Any suggestions? Budget about 20$.


----------



## ounwx (Jul 30, 2019)

infamousas said:


> Any decent upgrade to Edifier 180?
> I can't use in ear.
> I was thinking of maybe TY Hi-Z HP32 2.0 or RY45+ 32 ohm. I like the thick mmcx cables so maybe an ear bud with mmcx connections.  Any suggestions? Budget about 20$.


I've ordered ~10 cheap buds recently, one of which was the H180. For me, it falls in the middle of the pack, despite being one of the few that cost me over $10 for a pair. I'd recommend either the TY Hi-Z HP32 or Fengru TC200. Both have a wide soundstage like the H180, but with better clarity... and, to me, more enjoyable signatures. The TY is *very* V-shaped with amazing, visceral sub-bass and piercing highs, with mids taking a backseat. The Fengru is rather balanced with just a touch of a V-shape, but doesn't have a lot of bass. By comparison to either of those, I find the H180 kind of boomy on the low end and lacking in treble clarity. As for the RY4S, I'm finding it to share a lot of the TY's signature but lacking the low-end punch, so I'd probably start with the TY instead.


----------



## mbwilson111

infamousas said:


> Any decent upgrade to Edifier 180?
> I can't use in ear.
> I was thinking of maybe TY Hi-Z HP32 2.0 or RY45+ 32 ohm. I like the thick mmcx cables so maybe an ear bud with mmcx connections.  Any suggestions? Budget about 20$.



I highly recommend the RY4S PLUS MMCX.   It sounds great and is not bass light.  

I do NOT recommend the DIY MX500 MMCX that I also bought.   That one was bass light and for me to say that is unusual.   @HungryPanda felt the same about his pair so he put new drivers in his and in mine.  He said the installed drivers were very cheap looking.

We both like our RY4S PLUS MMCX and have put nice cables on them.


----------



## JackFlash

Scottyyy said:


> Well this is weird. Tried to order the snow lotus' with my card, payment failed. Tried again, same thing. Tried to order the RY's since the seller accepts paypal. Payment eventually went through after processing for a few mins, but the order still says closed on my aliexpress account.
> 
> First time ever using aliexpress. Is this a normal thing? Any ideas how to fix the issue with paying with my debit card?



Try a different browser. I can never get my orders to go through with Chrome on Mac. Safari is just fine.


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> I highly recommend the RY4S PLUS MMCX.   It sounds great and is not bass light.


Is that the 32ohm or 300ohm?


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> Is that the 32ohm or 300ohm?



32ohm

The 300 ohm one is just called RY4S Mmcx 300


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> 32ohm
> 
> The 300 ohm one is just called RY4S Mmcx 300


Ah, right.
Have you tried the 300? Someone upthread said your hubby has both.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> Ah, right.
> Have you tried the 300? Someone upthread said your hubby has both.



He does.  I rarely listen to his stuff.  Difficult enough to give enough time to my own.


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> He does. I rarely listen to his stuff. Difficult enough to give enough time to my own.


OK, hopefully he'll pass on his thoughts.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> OK, hopefully he'll pass on his thoughts.



He has gone in for a couple of 12 hour day shifts .

If you are interested just get them...is that not what we do here


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> He has gone in for a couple of 12 hour day shifts .
> 
> If you are interested just get them...is that not what we do here


Indeed it is!
But I find I get better results if I do a bit of research, and Mr Panda's insights have proved to be helpful in the past.
I'm happy to hear from anyone who has listened to them.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jul 31, 2019)

All I know is that he likes the RY4S MMCX 300 ohm.  Are they necessary for someone who already has many?  Doubtful.  Do you have any higher impedance buds?  Do you have many mmcx buds?  I have these three and am considering another.

Top left - DIY MX500 MMCX - silver - replaced drivers with Fengru LCK1410, because the ones they came with had poor tonality and anemic bass.   The replacement drivers have made them sound really good now. Replacement done by @HungryPanda .

Top right - RY4S MMCX PLUS - black - sound great to me

Bottom - YMHFPJ DIY MMCX - that was what it was named on the sellers site.  This one uses the same shell as the RY4C which is very comfortable to me and also sound great to me

various balanced cables


----------



## jibberish

Got a box of goodies from NiceHCK last night, including the ME80, and it seems like a winner right out of the box. Only mild complaint is that the mid bass can get a very little bit bloated, but this is before any burn in, or messing with different types of foams.

I'm going to have to do some head to head comparisons with the ME80 vs. Yincrow RW-9, since I bought them for basically the same price, and both are good as heck.


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> All I know is that he likes them.  Are they necessary for someone who already has many?  Doubtful.  Do you have any higher impedance buds?  Do you have many mmcx buds?  I have these three and am considering another.
> 
> Top left - DIY MX500 MMCX - silver - replaced drivers with Fengru LCK1410, because the ones they came with had poor tonality and anemic bass.   The replacement drivers have made them sound really good now.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the pictures and your impressions.

The highest impedance buds I have are (I think) the TY HP150 but I don't rate them very highly. IME thus far I haven't found a correlation between impedance and sound quality. The only MMCX buds I have are the **** PT25 which again are just OK to me.

But neither of these technical factors are particularly of interest to me per se. It's been said that the RY4S MMCX buds are supposed to be better than the originals and I just wanted hear some other views from those that have tried them. I don't 'need' (not that it matters!) any more but am always on the lookout for the next budget king.

Having said that I still have the Ourart Ti7 burning a hole in my basket...


----------



## DBaldock9

Willber said:


> Thanks for the pictures and your impressions.
> 
> The highest impedance buds I have are (I think) the TY HP150 but I don't rate them very highly. IME thus far I haven't found a correlation between impedance and sound quality. The only MMCX buds I have are the **** PT25 which again are just OK to me.
> 
> ...



Depending on your source, I can recommend trying the K's K600 earbuds - but if you want them to be MMCX, you'll have to do the mods yourself.
These at this link are black, but the ones I bought earlier this year are red. - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32824145371.html


----------



## Willber

DBaldock9 said:


> Depending on your source, I can recommend trying the K's K600 earbuds - but if you want them to be MMCX, you'll have to do the mods yourself.
> These at this link are black, but the ones I bought earlier this year are red. - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32824145371.html


Thanks, but they are beyond what I would be prepared to pay. As I said, I'm not really interested in technical characteristics, just great sound at a reasonable (cheap!) price. 
The Ti7 is an indulgence that I find tempting, though, based on many positive views. And they look cool!


----------



## RobinFood

I managed to get rid of the rattle in my Smabat ST-10 by sucking a little more vigorously. The sound came back to sounding great. Looks like I will be doing paranoid frequency sweeps for the next few days.

People who have had issues with rattling drivers before, how likely is it for the issue to come back? Is it likely to have damaged and decreased the life of the driver? 
I am really hoping this doesn't make them more prone to suddenly dying, I've never had this issue before.


----------



## assassin10000

Willber said:


> Thanks, but they are beyond what I would be prepared to pay. As I said, I'm not really interested in technical characteristics, just great sound at a reasonable (cheap!) price.
> The Ti7 is an indulgence that I find tempting, though, based on many positive views. And they look cool!



The Ourart's are built like tanks too. Except for @seanc6441's used pair that gave out (with bass boosted) I haven't heard of many issues.

I actually bought a second pair of the ACG's from another head-fi member.


----------



## letlive

mbwilson111 said:


> I highly recommend the RY4S PLUS MMCX.   It sounds great and is not bass light.


 I agree with that! Im suprised how good it sounds. It has a very similar sound signature to the MK2 MMCX, just a lttle bit less mid bass und more sub bass. Highly recommended!


----------



## Willber

letlive said:


> I agree with that! Im suprised how good it sounds. It has a very similar sound signature to the MK2 MMCX, just a lttle bit less mid bass und more sub bass. Highly recommended!


Right, that's another tick for the Plus, now ordered.

I'll wait for some more impressions for the 300 for a bit longer.


----------



## Willber

assassin10000 said:


> The Ourart's are built like tanks too. Except for @seanc6441's used pair that gave out (with bass boosted) I haven't heard of many issues.
> 
> I actually bought a second pair of the ACG's from another head-fi member.


Thanks, I'm pondering whether to get the Ti7 or ACG. It will come down to soundstage and clarity.


----------



## activatorfly

Preppin’ BT / DAP’s ‘n’ DAC’s - Masya never sounded so good as with the N3/NX4 DAC configuration!


----------



## RobinFood

assassin10000 said:


> The Ourart's are built like tanks too. Except for @seanc6441's used pair that gave out (with bass boosted) I haven't heard of many issues.
> 
> I actually bought a second pair of the ACG's from another head-fi member.



How is the comfort on the Ourart? They look kind of small to fit well. Are they comparable to PK shells?


----------



## RobinFood

Can anyone else with a Smabat ST-10 check out this headphone test on youtube?



I am pretty sure the buzz is back, even at low volumes. I am wondering if it will do this with all ST-10s or just the one I have now. Mostly with the bass test at the beginning and the quality test around 2:50.


----------



## sparhawk89

Has any one tried the new Sabia VII yet? How are they? Thinking of getting myself a pair of those.


----------



## ounwx

Fans of the Fengru Silvers (TC200): have you found any buds that are very similar but with stronger bass? I'm so impressed with these, except for the low end (which isn't bad; just not great). Has anyone tried the TC300, and if so, how do they compare? I'm open to any and all recommendations under $30 or so that sound similar to the TC200 (especially in its exceptional overall clarity) but improve on it in some way.


----------



## ounwx (Aug 12, 2019)

*Intro and Biases*
I just started looking at this forum, and cheap buds in general, within the last couple months. I’ve used Sennheiser MX365s for years without really knowing of any decent, affordable alternatives. So needless to say, I’ve jumped into amassing these ChiFi buds pretty quickly, and my impressions could change with time.

I’m making this post to help people who were in my recent situation: trying to figure out what’s worth ordering, but information is scattered all over the place in different threads and posts. Hopefully, having a reference where the same listener directly compares a lot of popular options is helpful, even if it’s only one perspective at the end of the day. Certainly feel free to ask questions or for more clarification on differences between pairs I’ve reviewed; I’ll probably be around quite a bit at least in the short term.

As far as my biases: I mainly listen to rock, including lots of hard rock and metal. I prefer to listen loud (probably too loud sometimes). I’ve always preferred a more forward and bright sound over warm and dark (for example, I love Klipsch speakers). I usually prefer a V-shaped EQ. I like bass, but not so much that I’m willing to accept bloat or boominess to get it.

I’ll try to update this if I have any significant changes of heart and as new buds arrive.

*Individual Reviews*
*Edifier H180*
V-shaped EQ. A bit thin sounding in the mids. Bass is prominent but feels somewhat boomy/bloated, focused almost exclusively in the mid-bass. Treble is on the harsh side, yet not especially clear or crisp to my ears. Wide soundstage and not very forward/fast; reminds me of open back Sennheiser headphones in general signature. Prefer with full foam pads to tame harshness/brightness and maximize bass.

These are buds that make a good impression with the big soundstage and overall signature when you first put them on, and I wanted to love them. But upon closer inspection, they’re revealed as boomy and somewhat lacking in clarity.

Build quality is among the worst of any earbuds I’ve used with an extremely thin cable, cheap plastic jack, and shells that don’t inspire confidence.

*FAAEAL Datura X*
_*If you’re sensitive to harsh/bright treble, don’t buy._

V-shaped EQ. My initial impression was that they’re all treble with recessed mids and no bass. With experimentation, I realized this bud’s performance is extremely dependent on positioning in the ear. They’ve got decent bass, but for me at least, the buds sit most naturally in a position where the sound is directed too high within the ear canal. If I force them to point downward a bit (and even more so if I physically press them inward), the bass quickly comes alive, making for a fun V-shaped signature I really enjoy. Relatively narrow soundstage; very fast and forward. Treble is certainly on the bright side, enough to put some people off. Prefer with full foams to tame the treble and augment bass.

Build quality seems good with a braided cable, but the gold-colored cylinder immediately above the jack has already come loose after only a few weeks of use.

This is a frustrating entry from FAAEAL. If they’d gotten the fit right, it would likely be one of my favorites, as someone who often prefers bright, clear, and forward rather than warmth or big soundstage. But I simply can’t get them to stay in the right position to deliver the sound they’re capable of without a lot of effort.

*FAAEAL Snow-Lotus 1.0+ Commemorative Edition*
_**If you need high volume from underpowered sources, don’t buy._

Mid-centric without much attempt at bass or treble extension. Flat, balanced EQ. Moderately wide soundstage. Anemic bass overall (even mid-bass). However, I have to admit these have good clarity and do what they do well; their flat signature just isn’t what I prefer. Worth noting that these are a bit less efficient than others on my list and struggle to get loud with some sources (64 Ohms).

Build quality is decent with a cloth-wrapped lower cable and robust jack, but the weight in conjunction with the bulky rubberized cable split makes them less convenient than average for on-the-go use.

*Fengru EMX500*
EQ is flatter than most of the others, though not as flat as the Snow-Lotus 1.0+. Signature is more toward the warm and dark end of the spectrum. In some ways, this reminds me of a slightly cleaner and slightly less bassy Vido. It’s good, but comparing head-to-head against top contenders like the HP32 and TC200, things just feel the slightest bit boxy and muddy. Soundstage is relatively narrow with a “band playing in your face” vibe. In a way this is like the darker and warmer cousin to the RY4S, which shares the forward/narrow soundstage characteristic but offers a brighter and less bassy take on it.

Build quality is OK, but I don’t like the cable at all. It’s braided like the Datura X, but thinner, so seems to tangle very easily. Probably my least favorite cable on the list, actually.

*Fengru TC200 (aka Fengru Silver)*
_**If you need high volume from underpowered sources, don’t buy._

Wonderful EQ that’s relatively balanced, but leans just enough toward V-shaped to keep things clear and musical. Probably the best “clarity” I’ve heard from an earbud or earphone -- that word means slightly different things to different people, of course, but I’m floored. The first word I’d use to sum these up is “transparent.” Put another way, these have no significant flaws, so they kind of just disappear and let the content shine through as it should. Bass is mediocre in quantity, but present enough for non-bassheads, and has absolutely no bloat or boominess… in other words, it’s all mid-bass, but it’s punchy and controlled and never comes close to bleeding into the mids. Mids are fantastic and clear, even if a tad deemphasized. Treble really floors me: this is the first bud I’ve heard that, as someone who generally likes bright and forward, I can say is very clear and airy without being harsh or piercing *at all*. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anything quite like it from full headphones or in my limited experience with speakers, either.

If the paradox or crisp, airy but non-harsh treble isn’t enough to sell you on these, if gets better: the soundstage is wide, instrument separation is fantastic, imaging just seems spot on… and yet it doesn’t feel at all veiled or recessed to me, as someone who tends to worry about losing that fast, in-your-face edge for rock music when soundstage is big (e.g., Sennheiser HDXXX series cans).

Other than the lack of sub-bass, the only con I’d point out is that these are relatively quiet/inefficient, despite being labeled at 16 Ohms. Compared to most of the other options on this list, you’ll need to bump your volume up a notch or two for equal levels. This could be problematic if you’re not using a good amp and you prefer listening at near-dangerous volumes, but shouldn’t be an issue otherwise.

Build quality is good for the price. Love the cable, love the look.

These deserve all the praise they’ve gotten and then some. If a variant could be made with moderately better bass extension (something approaching the HP32’s bass) but otherwise identical, I might pay 10x what they’re going for now.

*Fengru TC300*
_**If you need high volume from underpowered sources, don’t buy._

Relatively flat and balanced EQ. Moderately wide soundstage. Good clarity.

I bought these after receiving my first pair of TC200s, as those were my favorite out of 10+ buds I’d collected at that time. The TC300 is slightly pricier ($8 vs. $5) and the seller insinuates that it’s a bassier version of the TC200, which is precisely what I wanted. In reality, these have a markedly different signature from the TC200, but they’re still really good. Whereas the TC200 has what I’d consider the ideal EQ -- moderately V-shaped, but not obnoxiously so -- these are quite noticeably flatter. Their sound is very similar to the FAAEAL Snow-Lotus 1.0+ CE in almost every respect. In A/B testing the two, I swapped them 5-10x and still struggled to pinpoint differences I was completely confident in. My initial impression is that the TC300 is ever so slightly less flat (a touch more bass and a touch less rolled-off treble than the SL1.0+), but it’s really splitting hairs. Probably as a result of any minor EQ difference, I’d also describe the TC300 as the tiniest bit clearer and less grainy.

Build quality is good. The cable is black, instead of gray like the TC200. The jack is connected to a cylindrical faux-metal piece, instead of a flatter plastic one on the TC200. Otherwise, it would be hard to tell them apart.

It’s hard for me to decide whether these are deserving of the same high praise as the legendary TC200/Silver, because the flat signature of the TC300 isn’t my preferred style. What I can say is that you shouldn’t buy them expecting a straightforward upgrade from the TC200; also, the bass quantity isn’t really much more (if any). I would highly recommend these as an alternative to the SL1.0+, as I prefer their form factor and they’re around the same price.

*NICEHCK Vido*
EQ is somewhat V-shaped, but it’s complicated (and not great) on the high end. Warm and bass-centric. Bass is certainly good for an ultra-cheap earbud, but that’s the only high praise I have sound-wise. Mids are dark, not especially clear, and adversely affected by mid-bass. Treble is thin and lackluster, with some attempt at extension that sounds tacky and grating; harshness without real oomph or clarity to make it worth the price of admission. Prefer without foams, given their strength in bass and weakness in treble. Overall, the base signature is enjoyable, but they lean toward graininess and lack clarity in the mids and highs. I’m sure a better execution of this signature would sound fantastic (and the Fengru TC200 is sort of that, albeit with a bit less bass).

Build quality is appropriately lackluster for the price, and the J-cable is fairly annoying to me.

Because of the price, every basshead should own a pair or two, and everyone else into buds should probably still try it out just for the hell of it.

*QuianYun Qian39*
Probably the most disappointing on my list, relative to my expectations when I ordered. Very much another dark, warm, boxy signature similar to the Vidos, but with less bass, a higher pricetag, and a better reputation to live up to. Dirty, grainy, muddy, playing through a sewer pipe… man, the more I listen to this, the more shocked I am that reviews were generally so positive. I seriously wonder if I have a defective pair. This is probably my second least-favorite on the list after the horrific RY04, but it was close to $10, and it also has a crappy cable. It has an L-jack, which I like… so I guess I can say one nice thing about it? The Qian69 has even more glowing reviews, but I’m so put off and afraid of ordering anything else over $3 that shares much of anything in common with the 39 that I’m not sure I’ll give it a chance. Yuck.

*RYGMR RY04*
These are a joke. Not in the same stratosphere as anything else on this list. Incredibly tinny, thin, and I don’t think they’re even attempting to reproduce anything below 200 Hz on the low end. Not even worthy of inclusion as a freebie with a cheap smartphone. I’d throw them away if they weren’t potentially worth using in future comparisons. You get the point.

*RYGMR RY4S (non-UE ~$3 version)*
_*If you’re sensitive to harsh/bright treble, don’t buy._

I had high expectations for these, given their reputation for being relatively bright and forward. While they live up to that label, I found their clarity and bass a smidge less than desired. Don’t get me wrong; these are good, and any non-basshead who likes in-your-face soundstage should be pretty happy. EQ tends toward V-shaped, but with little bass extension, so more on the right side of the V than left. It tends to sound really good on some recordings, but gets exposed as thin sounding on loud, compressed songs with a lot of bass.

Build quality for the non-UE version is mediocre at best. Cord tangles easily.

*Sennheiser MX365*
Another fairly flat and mid-centric bud whose signature closely resembles the Snow-Lotus 1.0+, but with noticeably more treble emphasis… or maybe just peakier in the treble. However, after comparing these two closely, I also noticed the MX365 seems a little thinner and boxier in some ways. Narrow soundstage and reasonably forward in presentation, but slightly muddy. Prefer without foams.

These are all I used for several years up until recently discovering the cheap ChiFi bud craze, and they served me well enough at the price of $15-20 I typically paid when I wore a pair out. After hearing all these other options, though, I wouldn’t go out of my way to buy another pair at that price even if they were still widely available. Given they’re discontinued and now require effort to track down, I’d say it’s a no-brainer to pass on these. The SL 1.0+ offers a slightly cleaner, slightly more balanced take on this signature and is still available for around $10.

Build quality is average. L-jack is a plus.

*TY Hi-Z HP32*
_*If you’re sensitive to harsh/bright treble, don’t buy._

These are about as V-shaped as you’ll find -- in fact, U-shaped might even be more accurate. And I’m talking “crank the very bottom and top ends up by +6 dB” U-shaped. If that’s your thing, these are probably going to be delightful. If mids are your thing, you might as well stop reading here. Bass is exquisite for earbuds, with almost all the focus being on powerful sub-bass that simply doesn’t exist in most budget competitors. Even by the time you get up to the upper end of mid-bass, it feels like those frequencies are already deemphasized. Mids overall are very much toned down in the EQ curve and have a fairly thin presence that will be a dealbreaker to some. Treble is clear, bright, and harsh all at once, with great extension. Foams are a requirement to tame the harshness. Soundstage is wide and impressive; so much so that I actually wish they were a bit more of a “band playing in your face” vibe for the kind of music I focus on.

I feel like these actually accomplish what the Edifier H180s only attempt to do: wide soundstage and a pop-friendly V signature with good clarity. The only reason to prefer the H180s are their slightly fuller mids, but overall clarity and bass quality are loads better on the HP32s. In addition, these offer all the brightness and treble clarity of the RY4S (if anything, these are even brighter), but seem to additionally fill in the low end and widen the soundstage without any real disadvantage. As such, I’d start with the HP32, and only move on to the RY4S if you find these excessively bright and don’t mind sacrificing lots of bass to chop off 20% of the brightness.

Build quality is average with a reasonably thick wire. L-jack is a plus.

*Current rankings/groupings*
*Always subject to change

Awesome

Fengru TC200 (aka Fengru Silver)
TY Hi-Z HP32
Really Good

FAAEAL Snow-Lotus 1.0+ Commemorative Edition
Fengru TC300
Decent to Good

Edifier H180
FAAEAL Datura X
Fengru EMX500
NICEHCK Vido
RYGMR RY4S (non-UE)
Sennheiser MX365
Mediocre with Significant Flaws

QuianYun Qian39
Abysmal

RYGMR RY04
*TLDR Recommendations*
The following recommendations are obviously based only on the pairs I’ve reviewed (comprehensive list above in the rankings).

If you strongly prefer prominent mids (flat EQ) over any semblance of poppy V-shaped EQ: *Fengru TC300*


If you’re a basshead, love V-shaped EQ (don’t mind thin and recessed mids), and can tolerate relatively harsh brightness:* TY Hi-Z HP32*


Anyone else who likes to crank the volume way up and plans to use an underpowered amp (e.g., smartphone jack) regularly: *toss-up between TY Hi-Z HP32, RYGMR RY4S, Fengru EMX500; there’s no perfect answer I’ve found so far*

Everyone else (don’t need ultra-loud volume and/or using a real amp): *Fengru TC200 (aka Fengru Silver)*


----------



## lesale08

Vido is very popular here on our locals


----------



## wskl

RobinFood said:


> Can anyone else with a Smabat ST-10 check out this headphone test on youtube?
> 
> 
> 
> I am pretty sure the buzz is back, even at low volumes. I am wondering if it will do this with all ST-10s or just the one I have now. Mostly with the bass test at the beginning and the quality test around 2:50.




Tested with my Smabat, I got no problem with the bass test.


----------



## mbwilson111

ounwx said:


> *Intro and Biases*
> I just started looking at this forum, and cheap buds in general, within the last couple months. I’ve used Sennheiser MX365s for years without really knowing of any decent, affordable alternatives. So needless to say, I’ve jumped into amassing these ChiFi buds pretty quickly, and my impressions could change with time.
> 
> I’m making this post to help people who were in my recent situation: trying to figure out what’s worth ordering, but information is scattered all over the place in different threads and posts. Hopefully, having a reference where the same listener directly compares a lot of popular options is helpful, even if it’s only one perspective at the end of the day. Certainly feel free to ask questions or for more clarification on differences between pairs I’ve reviewed; I’ll probably be around quite a bit at least in the short term.
> ...




...and there are so many more to try...

You have stated some very strong opinions that not everyone will agree with.  For example, whenever someone bashes the RY04 I get mine out for a listen and find them to be beautiful with acoustic music.  It reproduces the bass that is in the song and overall is very addictive for me.

Are you using foams with any or all of these?  I cannot get a stable fit or proper "seal" without them.  With some of these people with larger ears might need to put a donut foam on top of a regular foam.  Also, positioning is important with most if not all buds.

I will say that our listening preferences are probably quite opposite each other.  I listen at low volumes, and while I do listen to and appreciate almost every genre of music (everything minus rap),  I do favor singer songwriters.  Loving the new Ratso album (Nick Cave guests on one track)


----------



## RobinFood

wskl said:


> Tested with my Smabat, I got no problem with the bass test.



Thank you, yeah, my left ear piece does buzz with the test. I guess I will try again  
I really enjoy the sound, so I will keep trying to get one without any defects.


----------



## activatorfly (Aug 1, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> ...and there are so many more to try...
> 
> You have stated some very strong opinions that not everyone will agree with.  For example, whenever someone bashes the RY04 I get mine out for a listen and find them to be beautiful with acoustic music.  It reproduces the bass that is in the song and overall is very addictive for me.
> 
> ...


I have the RY04 too...together with 3 pairs from RY store of differing impedances...I agree it’s not productive to make sweeping statements -as we all have different listening preferences & sources - that always has to be taken into account. Otherwise you develop a myopic viewpoint within the hobby...whereas in my opinion, it’s more conducive, having an overview of collecting that it’s a learning process, & when you find the sound signature that clicks with your music genres you’ll know instantly!....(might check the Ratso LP - just for the Nick Cave track!)


----------



## mbwilson111

activatorfly said:


> I have the RY04 too



Have you ever said what you thought of the RY04?  I originally bought it because I liked the look of it.


----------



## assassin10000

RobinFood said:


> Can anyone else with a Smabat ST-10 check out this headphone test on youtube?
> 
> 
> 
> I am pretty sure the buzz is back, even at low volumes. I am wondering if it will do this with all ST-10s or just the one I have now. Mostly with the bass test at the beginning and the quality test around 2:50.






wskl said:


> Tested with my Smabat, I got no problem with the bass test.



Nothing from mine at those spots either.




RobinFood said:


> Thank you, yeah, my left ear piece does buzz with the test. I guess I will try again
> I really enjoy the sound, so I will keep trying to get one without any defects.



Except for the bent mmxc pins on the original pair, mine have been flawless. 

Seems like you have the worst luck with these.


----------



## seanc6441

skycracksopen said:


> I feel like about half the pictures I see online show them with foams.
> 
> Did the manufacturer recommend no foams?
> 
> I prefer foams because I can easily toss them every week or two when they become dirty, and I usually find it more comfortable, too.


The zen 2 is recommended to use without foams, Lee the guy behind Venture Electronics even says so himself.

The zen 2 with foams would be extremely dark and warm.

If you want to use foams you can but I'd suggest you buy a different earbud thats tuned for using with foams.


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 1, 2019)

Kumonomukou said:


> Good news for people who interested in smaller version of Smabat ST-10! Just spoke to a distributor, and was told that the manufacturers are working on it. The actual product could be introduced in a couple months. I'm curious to see how it will perform with the smaller drivers.
> 
> 
> 
> AIso I discovered a pair of interesting looking earbuds named 'Laysound Pislo'. I was hooked in the first glance, but wait until I saw the price tag. They're quite expensive and currently rated around $670 USD. I wonder how many people are actually willing to get a chance to hear them...


Not too erogonomic looking as theres no hooked area to fit in the ear. But maybe its smaller housing.

I like the recessed driver design, if it's tuned right it should add a little bit of soundstage perception and has a good size shell behind it.

They look incredible though.


----------



## Scottyyy

So I bought some JVC Gumy's (HAF140) to tide me over until the Fengru's arrive. _Oh boy_ do they sound bad compared to the Pioneer's. I really hope the Fengru's are a step up. I know the Gumy's are literally the most bottom end earbuds and that's all they sold in the store I work at, but I didn't expect them to be this bad.


----------



## activatorfly

mbwilson111 said:


> Have you ever said what you thought of the RY04?  I originally bought it because I liked the look of it.


I think I said at the time that I liked their form factor...preferred the GM500 & only really bought the RY04 just to complete the set - plus they’re my second pair of buds with the groovy IE800 style cable!


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 1, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> The Ourart's are built like tanks too. Except for @seanc6441's used pair that gave out (with bass boosted) I haven't heard of many issues.
> 
> I actually bought a second pair of the ACG's from another head-fi member.


No i openly acknowledge that I messed up my ti7 by adding around +6db of bass boost lol

The drivers developed a rattle because the excursion was too much in the bass for these titanium drivers. Of course the 6db boost was barely felt because the limit was reached at like 3db.

It was silly of me but i wanted too see how much bass i could get out of it. I could get moderate amounts of sub bass but after a few months the driver gave out suddenly.

The ti7 is well made just dont add huge amounts of bass boost as you will get physical driver distortion on bassy tracks.

Adding around 2-3db of boost will do no harm and will add a slight amount of weight to the low end. But using them as stock is just fine too


----------



## seanc6441

RobinFood said:


> How is the comfort on the Ourart? They look kind of small to fit well. Are they comparable to PK shells?


Not really. They are kinda bulky but comfortable with thinner full foams or thin foams.

I'd say they fit somewhere between pk and mx500 confort wise. Mx500 are way more erogonomic but are bigger so there's pressure on the ear slightly.

Pk shells are around the same size as ourart from cover but are much more erogonomic so they win comfort wise IMO.

I didnt have any real issues with the ti7 until i tried thick donuts, that wasnt pleasant.

Also the ti7 may benefit from custom multi hole foams. I found the sound best unobstructed for clarity and soundstage. But thin monk or black aliexpress thin foams dont help bass wise. So i thinner full foam with punched out holes would be nice.


----------



## waynes world

I've been enjoying many a fine earbuds lately, so my Svara L's (32 ohms) have been somewhat neglected. But I have been listening to them this morning, and you know what? They are still fantabulous!


----------



## ounwx

mbwilson111 said:


> ...and there are so many more to try...
> 
> You have stated some very strong opinions that not everyone will agree with.  For example, whenever someone bashes the RY04 I get mine out for a listen and find them to be beautiful with acoustic music.  It reproduces the bass that is in the song and overall is very addictive for me.


That's for sure. I have little doubt that someone listening almost exclusively to acoustic or classical could have radically different opinions about virtually all these buds than I do. Hopefully, my description of the sound signatures is at least useful, even if I throw in some shade for some of them.



> Are you using foams with any or all of these?  I cannot get a stable fit or proper "seal" without them.  With some of these people with larger ears might need to put a donut foam on top of a regular foam.  Also, positioning is important with most if not all buds.


Good question. I've traditionally preferred naked buds, but quickly realized it's complicated when these new ones started coming in. For these tests, I used full foams on almost all the buds. The only exceptions were the ones I felt to be significantly lacking in treble and/or clarity to begin with (mainly Vidos). I really need to pick up some donuts so I can maximize bass without veiling treble, but haven't had a chance yet. Overall, though, I've yet to find a case where using or not using foams radically changes how I perceive the _differences_ between two pairs.


----------



## HungryPanda

waynes world said:


> I've been enjoying many a fine earbuds lately, so my Svara L's (32 ohms) have been somewhat neglected. But I have been listening to them this morning, and you know what? They are still fantabulous!


They most certainly are, I was really enjoying mine the other day


----------



## Willber

Hi @HungryPanda, do you have any thoughts about the RY4S MMCX 300? I've ordered the Plus and would like to know if they're sufficiently different that it's worth having both.


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 1, 2019)

RobinFood said:


> How is the comfort on the Ourart? They look kind of small to fit well. Are they comparable to PK shells?





seanc6441 said:


> Not really. They are kinda bulky but comfortable with thinner full foams or thin foams.
> 
> I'd say they fit somewhere between pk and mx500 confort wise. Mx500 are way more erogonomic but are bigger so there's pressure on the ear slightly.
> 
> ...



The Ourarts outer diameter is actually smaller than the PK shell, but the width is a bit larger/thicker. With regular foams I like the fit. Double foams is ok too.

I like pk shell's size wise and find the ourarts pretty comfortable. Mx500 size shells are a hair too large for my smallish ears and can be uncomfortable. (The only reason I'm contemplating selling my ST-10's, but they sound so good).

If you search I posted the measurements and comparison pictures.

Edit, measurements:
Yuin/PK shell: 16.1mm 
MX500 shell: 16.8mm 
ACG (& Ti7): 15.75mm (5.35mm rim width, overall 15.45mm wide/thick).


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> Hi @HungryPanda, do you have any thoughts about the RY4S MMCX 300? I've ordered the Plus and would like to know if they're sufficiently different that it's worth having both.



If you do order the 300 be sure that the other one is well on its way first.   Panda ordered his a couple of days apart and somehow they got sent together in one box... with full value added together resulting in an 11 pound customs charge (8 of which was the royal mail service charge).   Sent separately that would not have happened.   The way the pound is going be really careful.  Even  if something is valued at $17 it could trigger customs as the trigger point is 15 pounds.

We were not happy.


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> If you do order the 300 be sure that the other one is well on its way first.   Panda ordered his a couple of days apart and somehow they got sent together in one box... with full value added together resulting in an 11 pound customs charge (8 of which was the royal mail service charge).   Sent separately that would not have happened.   The way the pound is going be really careful.  Even  if something is valued at $17 it could trigger customs as the trigger point is 15 pounds.
> 
> We were not happy.


Thanks for the heads-up. I shall wait to hear from HP before I order it.

BTW, are there any cheap MMCX cables you recommend? I'm not worried about subtle FR differences as I use EQ, I'm more interested in flexibility and durability. (My Snow Lotus 1.0 are my current favourites.)


----------



## ounwx

Any recs for cheap MMCX cables? I'm probably going to try the RY4S Plus, but can't be bothered to spend $10-20 on a cable to go with it, which is about all I'm seeing on AE. There have to be decent options under $5, no?


----------



## HungryPanda

Willber said:


> Hi @HungryPanda, do you have any thoughts about the RY4S MMCX 300? I've ordered the Plus and would like to know if they're sufficiently different that it's worth having both.


 I find both to be very good, the 300 ohm one sounds clearer with a more tightened bass, more neutral


----------



## Willber

HungryPanda said:


> I find both to be very good, the 300 ohm one sounds clearer with a more tightened bass, more neutral


Great, thanks. When the others are on their way I shall order them.


----------



## cqtek (Aug 1, 2019)

After several weeks of testing the NiceHCK ME80, I have discovered their mystery...My humble opinion about them is here:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-me80.23837/reviews#review-22436

I hope to receive tomorrow the RY4S Plus MMCX 32 Ohms. There is a lot of talk about them lately, I hope they are better than RY4S, I would like the voices to be better, without losing the bass.
I will use this cable that I analyzed the other day.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/penon-spc-cable.23839/reviews#review-22385


----------



## Willber

Willber said:


> BTW, are there any cheap MMCX cables you recommend? I'm not worried about subtle FR differences as I use EQ, I'm more interested in flexibility and durability. (My Snow Lotus 1.0 are my current favourites.)


@mbwilson111, don't worry about this, the RY store seems to have plenty that will be suitable.


----------



## BabyLamb89

mbwilson111 said:


> If you do order the 300 be sure that the other one is well on its way first.   Panda ordered his a couple of days apart and somehow they got sent together in one box... with full value added together resulting in an 11 pound customs charge (8 of which was the royal mail service charge).   Sent separately that would not have happened.   The way the pound is going be really careful.  Even  if something is valued at $17 it could trigger customs as the trigger point is 15 pounds.
> 
> We were not happy.



In Sweden I have the opposite problem. There is an import fee on anything that comes from outside the EU plus 20% of the value, regardless of whether it cost £1 or £100. So I always try to get a few pairs of buds at the same time to justify the ~£10 that will eventually get added to the total cost. But I think it's worth it. Earbuds are so much more fun than iems!


----------



## seanc6441

assassin10000 said:


> The Ourarts outer diameter is actually smaller than the PK shell, but the width is a bit larger/thicker. With regular foams I like the fit. Double foams is ok too.
> 
> I like pk shell's size wise and find the ourarts pretty comfortable. Mx500 size shells are a hair too large for my smallish ears and can be uncomfortable. (The only reason I'm contemplating selling my ST-10's, but they sound so good).
> 
> ...


Even looking at the TI7 the shell looks big despite the measurements saying otherwise. I think it's the fact that its almost consistently that size without much of a lip to sit in your ear that it feels big but it doesn't cause me any pressure which is nice.

I don't think it's a great design, I mean its definitely not form fitting. But it gets by with its smaller driver and enclosure.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I ordered one off their store page for $4 and it measures pretty good, looks great, and does a good job with the ry4s plus.


----------



## ounwx

Willber said:


> I'm more interested in flexibility and durability. (My Snow Lotus 1.0 are my current favourites.)


What's the difference in signature like between the 1.0 and 1.0+CE?


----------



## Willber (Aug 1, 2019)

ounwx said:


> What's the difference in signature like between the 1.0 and 1.0+CE?


When I said 'current favourites' I was talking about the cable.

I haven't listened to either for quite a while but I preferred the 1.0 for it's more natural and balanced sound, from what I remember. If you have a search you will find my and others' impressions of both.

Having said that, I think most people on here preferred the 1.0+.


----------



## snip3r77 (Aug 1, 2019)

ounwx said:


> *Intro and Biases*
> I just started looking at this forum, and cheap buds in general, within the last couple months. I’ve used Sennheiser MX365s for years without really knowing of any decent, affordable alternatives. So needless to say, I’ve jumped into amassing these ChiFi buds pretty quickly, and my impressions could change with time.
> 
> I’m making this post to help people who were in my recent situation: trying to figure out what’s worth ordering, but information is scattered all over the place in different threads and posts. Hopefully, having a reference where the same listener directly compares a lot of popular options is helpful, even if it’s only one perspective at the end of the day. Certainly feel free to ask questions or for more clarification on differences between pairs I’ve reviewed; I’ll probably be around quite a bit at least in the short term.
> ...



first glance reading your summary, all earbuds are 'bad' and most of your opinion is against the grain.


----------



## chinmie

ounwx said:


> *Intro and Biases*
> I just started looking at this forum, and cheap buds in general, within the last couple months. I’ve used Sennheiser MX365s for years without really knowing of any decent, affordable alternatives. So needless to say, I’ve jumped into amassing these ChiFi buds pretty quickly, and my impressions could change with time.
> 
> I’m making this post to help people who were in my recent situation: trying to figure out what’s worth ordering, but information is scattered all over the place in different threads and posts. Hopefully, having a reference where the same listener directly compares a lot of popular options is helpful, even if it’s only one perspective at the end of the day. Certainly feel free to ask questions or for more clarification on differences between pairs I’ve reviewed; I’ll probably be around quite a bit at least in the short term.
> ...





snip3r77 said:


> first glance reading your summary, all earbuds are 'bad' and most of your opinion is against the grain.



he is entitled to his own opinion, and after i read them more thorough, some of the assessments are understandable and also crossed path with my own assessments (except for the ones i haven't tried:the TC200, RY04, snow lotus, and MX365)


----------



## WoodyLuvr

chinmie said:


> he is entitled to his own opinion, and after i read them more thorough, some of the assessments are understandable and also crossed path with my own assessments (except for the ones i haven't tried:the TC200, RY04, snow lotus, and MX365)


Plus his ears may still be adjusting to earbuds... both due to fit and sound signature style.


----------



## Hipnotic

I've recently purchased a bunch of earbuds that are now on their way in the mail:

Moondrop ShiroYuki
FAAEAL Snow Lotus 2.0
RY4S
RY4S+
GM500
Fengru DIY Tingo TC200
Nicehck ME80
BGVP DX3s
VE Monk Plus Royal Purple (mainly got these just for the colour)
Was also considering the Hisoundaudio HSA-E351, Fengru DIY EMX500, DIY SR2 and Edifier H180. I'll probably end up getting some of those in the future. I was considering the Smabat ST-10 but I was a bit concerned with reports of iffy build quality especially when they're nearly $100. I'm hoping I might get a few earbuds that suit my preferences in the batch ordered and then I might end up upgrading later to something like the Shozy Cygnus or Rose Masya (will need to research more on what would suit me).

The earbuds I've tried so far include the Yuin PK3, VE Monk Plus and TY Hi-Z HP-32. The Yuin PK3's have been my favourite so far. The VE Monk Plus had some solid bass but they lack clarity and mine have a lot of distortion – not sure if it was the mic on the chord causing the distortion, so I opted for no mic on the recently ordered Royal Purple's. The TY Hi-Z HP-32 sounds quite harsh and tinny to me, so I'm not a big fan of these even at $8.


----------



## chinmie

WoodyLuvr said:


> Plus his ears may still be adjusting to earbuds... both due to fit and sound signature style.



yup. a few days ago i started listening to my earbuds again after using iems for so long, and my Liebesleid sounded fuller and bassier that i remembered (and got goosebumps all over... man... i love that earbud so much), and the MK1 bass became too much for me. only the PK16 that i can easily jump from iems to without too much adapting.


----------



## ounwx

Hipnotic said:


> The TY Hi-Z HP-32 sounds quite harsh and tinny to me, so I'm not a big fan of these even at $8.


I'm guessing you already have, but just in case, try with full/thick foams. I thought the same thing out of the box without any foams on, and adding them made a world of difference. Definitely still on the harsh side, but far bassier and not tinny IMO with foams.


----------



## Willber

Willber said:


> Great, thanks. When the others are on their way I shall order them.


My RY4S Plus has been shipped so I have just ordered the 300 and this cable:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32977439182.html

It least it's pretty!


----------



## Brave Heart

Hi, I was wondering if anyone could suggest an earbud for me? I haven't used or owned an earbud for years.

I posted a thread here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds.912174/


----------



## DBaldock9

Brave Heart said:


> Hi, I was wondering if anyone could suggest an earbud for me? I haven't used or owned an earbud for years.
> 
> I posted a thread here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds.912174/



Well, the first thing folks are going to do, is ask you for a few more details - like:
Your budget
Your Sources (phone alone, DAP, or Amp)
Your Music listening preferences


----------



## Brave Heart

DBaldock9 said:


> Well, the first thing folks are going to do, is ask you for a few more details - like:
> Your budget
> Your Sources (phone alone, DAP, or Amp)
> Your Music listening preferences


I'll set a tentative budget of say, £50? But that could be adjusted.
I use a 160GB iPod Classic and a Samsung Note 9 to listen to music.
I listen to rock (alternative, prog rock, classic rock), metal, progressive metal, hip-hop and some electronic pop music like Chvrches and a-ha.


----------



## HungryPanda

@Brave Heart https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32976559582.html


----------



## cyh03176

finally received my ry4s plus

very good ootb indeed.


----------



## darmanastartes

Willber said:


> Thanks for the heads-up. I shall wait to hear from HP before I order it.
> 
> BTW, are there any cheap MMCX cables you recommend? I'm not worried about subtle FR differences as I use EQ, I'm more interested in flexibility and durability. (My Snow Lotus 1.0 are my current favourites.)


Check here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low-end-cheap-generic-otherwise-bang-for-buck-cable-thread.891911/


----------



## Willber

darmanastartes said:


> Check here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low-end-cheap-generic-otherwise-bang-for-buck-cable-thread.891911/


Thanks.


----------



## cqtek

Great pairing!!!
RY4S MMCX PLUS 32 Ohms with SPC cable:


----------



## lgcubana

Hipnotic said:


> I've recently purchased a bunch of earbuds that are now on their way in the mail:
> 
> Moondrop ShiroYuki
> FAAEAL Snow Lotus 2.0
> ...


I appreciate you.  Makes my recent spending spree feel down right normal.


----------



## waynes world (Aug 2, 2019)

Brave Heart said:


> Hi, I was wondering if anyone could suggest an earbud for me? I haven't used or owned an earbud for years.
> 
> I posted a thread here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds.912174/



Hey Brave Heart, good to see you over here! 

This is what you said in your thread:



Brave Heart said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am interested in trying earbuds (note EARBUDS, not IEMs - sometimes people confuse the two).
> I am trying to stop using IEMs, and on-ears aren't always the best solution when it comes to portability, hence why I'm wanting to try something different.
> ...



This is what HungryPanda recommended (Fengru Silvers):



HungryPanda said:


> @Brave Heart https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32976559582.html



HungryPanda is your friend (and your wallet's enemy lol). Fortunately for you, he recommended a very good pair of earbuds that don't break the bank, and I also highly recommend them. Also, the SR2'S are very good:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32801265552.html

Plus around 5-50 others lol. Good luck!


----------



## HungryPanda

May as well start with a rather low priced but very good earbud


----------



## Brave Heart

Thank you @HungryPanda and @waynes world


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> My RY4S Plus has been shipped so I have just ordered the 300 and this cable:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32977439182.html
> 
> It least it's pretty!



Thanks for the link.  Just ordered two for us.


----------



## courierdriver

cqtek said:


> Great pairing!!!
> RY4S MMCX PLUS 32 Ohms with SPC cable:


Really like your cable. Is this available in 2.5 balanced? How much $? for the one in your pic. LINKS? If this setup is inexpensive enough, it might be my next purchase, based on the reviews I've read so far.


----------



## DBaldock9

Just realized, while preparing for my Vacation trip --- Of the several dozen cables that I've accumulated, all of my Mic/Control cables are MMCX.  
Since none are 2-Pin with Mic/Controls, that means I can't use my VE Zen 2.0 ZOE, or Asura 2.0s AOE for listening to music while driving (and being able to answer the phone, if required).  
I do have a set of Monk Plus, with Mic/Controls that work - and two sets of Monk Lite, with Controls that work, but both have a defective / noisy Mic (when used with my LG V30). 
I've got some DIY / Replacement 2-Pin connectors on order, but unless they're in the mail tomorrow, I won't be able to assemble any cables before I leave.


----------



## 40760

Managed to snag a pair of E1008 for less than half the retail price... Now waiting for delivery...


----------



## cqtek

courierdriver said:


> Really like your cable. Is this available in 2.5 balanced? How much $? for the one in your pic. LINKS? If this setup is inexpensive enough, it might be my next purchase, based on the reviews I've read so far.



I have many other cables, similarly priced. They are usually thicker and with more cores. But it fits perfectly with the white RY4S Plus, as you can see.
I wrote a review on them here:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/penon-spc-cable.23839/reviews#review-22385

You can choose MMCX or 2-pin 0.78, 3.5mm Normal, 2.5mm Balanced or 4.4 Balanced.

The purchase link is here:

https://penonaudio.com/accessories/earphone-cable/silver-plated-replacement-cable.html


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 3, 2019)

DBaldock9 said:


> Since none are 2-Pin with Mic/Controls, that means I can't use my VE Zen 2.0 ZOE, or Asura 2.0s AOE for listening to music while driving (and being able to answer the phone, if required).


I do hope that is only one ear, but even then only should be for answering important calls good sir and not listening to music 

Respectfully here is some food for thought:

My extremely short and petite 19-year old great niece was loading her car with bags from a shopping cart when a SUV backing out of the parking space next to her ran her over and then dragged her for many kilometers down the road. The SUV driver was a mother of two small children and was wearing headphones and had not heard the screams nor the pounding of my niece against the back of the car... nor did the driver hear the reports from many bystanders in the parking lot (whom the driver happily waved back to thinking that they were simply greeting her)... nor did the driver even hear the horn and siren of a passing government utility vehicle who had seen my niece fighting for her life while being dragged behind the vehicle caught by her clothing and hair in the rear bumper/undercarriage.

So enthralled by the music the driver failed to notice the desperate plees of the government utility workers driving alongside who were signalling and yelling for the driver to stop her vehicle. The government utility workers finally resorted to gently pulling up against the SUV (clearly noting that there were small children in the backseat) forcing the driver to finally stop after the SUV was pinned up against a guardrail or something of the like. Of course the driver was horrified once she saw my dying niece underneath her car and understood what she had done... but too little too late as my niece passed away before the paramedics arrived.

The coroner believed my niece would have easily survived the initial impact of being hit and run over in the parking lot if the SUV had stopped then. However, the long drag down the road at 80 plus kph and the resulting injuries and complications was what ultimately caused her death. The driver's excuse was that she had always worn headphones while driving (listening to music and talking on the phone) to drown out the constant crying, screaming, and fighting of her children.

Apparently, when you impair your hearing with isolation your peripheral vision literally goes right out the door as well and you lose touch with your surroundings.​FYI it is illegal for drivers to wear headphones while driving in many countries around the world and I see in the U.S. states of Colorado, Maryland, Louisiana, and Rhode Island... while the state of Illinois only allows one-ear earphone usage while operating a vehicle.


----------



## cqtek

In Spain, it is forbidden to use headphones while driving or to use a mobile phone. These are serious offences. I have never seen anyone in my country drive with headphones, you can listen to music with the car's own audio system. But it's much more common for people to use their mobile phones while driving, which is really dangerous, because you stop looking at the road... Even though it's totally forbidden and punishable, accidents because of it don't stop happening. In summer it's a very sensitive time, because in my country the car is used a lot to travel on holidays. I myself will make a trip of almost 3000 km, in total, this summer, with my new car. I just hope everything goes well.


----------



## mbwilson111

WoodyLuvr said:


> I do hope that is only one ear, but even then only should be for answering important calls good sir and not listening to music
> 
> Respectfully here is some food for thought:
> 
> ...



OMG.  How tragic.  I am in tears for your family


----------



## mbwilson111 (Aug 3, 2019)

DBaldock9 said:


> Since none are 2-Pin with Mic/Controls, that means I can't use my VE Zen 2.0 ZOE, or Asura 2.0s AOE for listening to music while driving (and being able to answer the phone, if required).



Before I even saw Woody's reply I had quoted this so I could reply.  Please please do not do this, for your safety and the safety of others.  While driving, no one needs to be that immersed in their music... or a phone call.

This.



WoodyLuvr said:


> Apparently, when you impair your hearing with isolation your peripheral vision literally goes right out the door as well and you lose touch with your surroundings.


----------



## gazzington

I've got a Sony wm1a and lotoo paw gold touch and I'm after some earbuds for genres such as metal (death, black, grind), classical, jazz, hip hop, rock). I would like a 4.4 connector and can spend up to £300.


----------



## XP_98

As this market is constantly evolving, can you please tell me what are at the time the best *yuin shell* ear buds :
- Top of the line
- Middle of the line

Thank you for advice


----------



## Carrow

palestofwhite said:


> Managed to snag a pair of E1008 for less than half the retail price... Now waiting for delivery...



Where from?


----------



## courierdriver

cqtek said:


> I have many other cables, similarly priced. They are usually thicker and with more cores. But it fits perfectly with the white RY4S Plus, as you can see.
> I wrote a review on them here:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/penon-spc-cable.23839/reviews#review-22385
> ...


Thanks! I ordered the 32 ohm Plus version of the earbud, but had to go with a different cable. Penon's website is weird and wouldn't let me open an account or pay. I ended up buying both the earbud and the different cable from Aliexpress, which never has given me any problems.


----------



## Willber

courierdriver said:


> Penon's website is weird and wouldn't let me open an account or pay. I ended up buying both the earbud and the different cable from Aliexpress, which never has given me any problems.


The Penon store is accessible on AE (perhaps that is where you bought it from):

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32839862233.html


----------



## mochill

irv003 said:


> done with the BBB v2, im just a pm away


Ordered a pair , now the waiting game


----------



## 40760

Carrow said:


> Where from?



One of our small local online retailer had a weekend promotion for a limited pieces of 1MORE products and the E1008 happened to be one of them.

I guess they are just clearing remaining stocks as I can tell that the E1008 has been discontinued and no longer available on 1MORE's own website or store.


----------



## jogawag

XP_98 said:


> As this market is constantly evolving, can you please tell me what are at the time the best *yuin shell* ear buds :
> - Top of the line
> - Middle of the line
> 
> Thank you for advice


I think the best yuin shell earbuds at the time as follows.
-Top of the line: Simphonio SWD2+
-Middle of the line: Shozy Cygnus


----------



## chinmie

WoodyLuvr said:


> I do hope that is only one ear, but even then only should be for answering important calls good sir and not listening to music
> 
> Respectfully here is some food for thought:
> 
> ...



I'm deeply saddened reading this... my condolences to you..

i'm always wear iems under my helmet, mostly to block wind noise, and also sometimes wear earphones/iems in my car, mostly to drown out the rumbling noise of the road, but even if i play some music on, i always check the volume to never past the point that i cannot hear my finger click. even with music on, i can still hear my son and wife's voice.for me personally, blocking the wind and low rumble noise helps me focus and able to listen to the more important sound cues such as car horns, engine noise. it's also better for me to gauge distance of the sound cues. 

even for people who only use the car stereo system for music, sometimes they crank the volume so high that it drowns all noise that they can't even hear other car's horn sound... and that is very dangerous.


----------



## XP_98

jogawag said:


> I think the best yuin shell earbuds at the time as follows.
> -Top of the line: Simphonio SWD2+
> -Middle of the line: Shozy Cygnus


Thank you for your answer.
But the Simphonio is above my budget (already have the Shozy BK in 2,5mm), and the Cygnus doesn't seem to be available anymore on Aliexpress...
Another middle of the line recommandation ?


----------



## RobinFood

XP_98 said:


> Thank you for your answer.
> But the Simphonio is above my budget (already have the Shozy BK in 2,5mm), and the Cygnus doesn't seem to be available anymore on Aliexpress...
> Another middle of the line recommandation ?



Looks like Wong just came out with the Blur PK 16. Blur being Blur I am sure it will sound amazing but cost a lot (from 200$ and up). You have to pm him for pricing on the earbuds anonymous FB group. I am very interested but just know I can't afford it now.


----------



## subwoof3r (Aug 5, 2019)

Hey everybody! back from my holidays in Spain 

Once back home I finally received my *TY Hi-Z TY (32ohm)*.
First impression is good (for the price), probably one of the best ~5$ earbuds that I tried yet

Overall bass is impressive, quite invasive but enough control, there is a lot of impact while not beeing a sub-bass king. mids are clearly recessed (we can feel the much V pronounced sound sig), high are crisp and there is an annoying peak resulting to be sibilant in some areas (still need to define which freq exactly). The sound is not very natural and transparent to my ears, but smooth enough to be enjoyed. Soundstage is very good thanks to it's dark (but fun) signature.

For the price, I recommended them. I place them right after EMX500S that I still prefer for the subbass (especially) / althought my EMX500S died long time ago, I remember his signature quite well today.
I recommend listen to these Hi-Z with full (and thick) foams (to help taming the annoying highs peak)
Cheers'


----------



## rkw

XP_98 said:


> As this market is constantly evolving, can you please tell me what are at the time the best *yuin shell* ear buds :
> - Top of the line
> - Middle of the line





jogawag said:


> I think the best yuin shell earbuds at the time as follows.
> -Top of the line: Simphonio SWD2+
> -Middle of the line: Shozy Cygnus


Simphonio Dragon 3 is now available, for $500 (link, review).

Regarding the high price, consider that Simphonio Dragon 2+ is $320, but has been on Massdrop twice, first at $240 and then at $200. Really raises doubt about the value.

Personally, I decided that I will no longer buy an expensive earbud with a cheap generic plastic shell. If a vendor claims high performance, but they put zero effort into designing a shell to optimize the performance of the driver, then it is a compromised design. If they are charging a high price, there is no excuse.


----------



## chellity

rkw said:


> Simphonio Dragon 3 is now available, for $500 (link, review).
> 
> Regarding the high price, consider that Simphonio Dragon 2+ is $320, but has been on Massdrop twice, first at $240 and then at $200. Really raises doubt about the value.
> 
> Personally, I decided that I will no longer buy an expensive earbud with a cheap generic plastic shell. If a vendor claims high performance, but they put zero effort into designing a shell to optimize the performance of the driver, then it is a compromised design. If they are charging a high price, there is no excuse.



That just looks like an actual scam to me...sorry.  An absolutely generic braided cable, shell, with a driver that's supposed to make up like 98% of the entire asking price of $500.  I know they were supposed to be doing a fancy layered driver or something, but....$480 for a small dynamic driver?  It just seems like a race to the top, to see how many people they can actually get to pay for a product they sell with a 100% markup...i'll be happy with my planars, sabias and kubes, thanks.


----------



## Danneq

rkw said:


> Simphonio Dragon 3 is now available, for $500 (link, review).
> 
> Regarding the high price, consider that Simphonio Dragon 2+ is $320, but has been on Massdrop twice, first at $240 and then at $200. Really raises doubt about the value.
> 
> Personally, I decided that I will no longer buy an expensive earbud with a cheap generic plastic shell. If a vendor claims high performance, but they put zero effort into designing a shell to optimize the performance of the driver, then it is a compromised design. If they are charging a high price, there is no excuse.



My first post in a long long time.

$500 does sound a bit much compared to $320 for SWD2+
Those are the last earbuds I bought (last autumn for $199 on Massdrop - ended up around $260 with import taxes and customs fees to Sweden) and I'm amazed at how good they are. Not 100% my prefered sound signature but I'll definitely hold on to them.

I felt I had to step in because of the generic earbuds shell comment. All of the best sounding earbuds I've heard fall into that category (perhaps MX980/985 is the only exception).

I'm with the family in Japan again like last year (no meeting Herry of Cypherus this year, though).
I was interested in the new ATH CM2000TI and was thinking of buying a pair. I got an opportunity to listen to them at the e earphone store in Akihabara in Tokyo.
Man, was I disappointed. Hollow and metallic sounding. The soundstage might have had some depth, but felt narrow. I have previously owned both CM7 and CM700 and from memory they sounded better.
50 000 yen for something like that?

I compared directly to my pair of Cypherus CampFred 2 that I had with me and that felt like how music should sound like. With warmth, dynamics,  more details, no metallic sound.

Either the pair at e earphone was defective or ATH tuned the sound very strange.
I left Akihabara with just a new pair of earpads for my ATH ES10 headphones.

If you can get good sound and custom shells, great. But I prefer to go just by sound. In my experience mainly tiny earbuds DIY boutiques put the main focus on that aspect.


----------



## subwoof3r

When I can see what we can achieve with just some good DIY, selling earbuds over 150$ is just pure fool.
Personally I won't buy anymore any earbuds passed that limit.
My latest custom MX500 prototype with my just received 130 ohm Beryllium drivers are the best earbuds I listened to date.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 5, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> When I can see what we can achieve with just some good DIY, selling earbuds over 150$ is just pure fool.
> Personally I won't buy anymore any earbuds passed that limit.
> My latest custom MX500 prototype with my just received 130 ohm Beryllium drivers are the best earbuds I listened to date.


Concur, though the way I solder I would bump that up to just shy of USD $175 for a nicely finished product!


----------



## jogawag

XP_98 said:


> Thank you for your answer.
> But the Simphonio is above my budget (already have the Shozy BK in 2,5mm), and the Cygnus doesn't seem to be available anymore on Aliexpress...
> Another middle of the line recommandation ?



Shozy Cygnus seems to be sold at the following site.
https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/shozy-cygnus.html

Or DIY SR2 16 ohms (the second of "color:" at the following site) is also recommended and cheap. However, this requires more than 100 hours of burn-in.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32801646835.html


----------



## 40760

Saw a range of REMAX branded earbuds (RM-305, RM-303 and RM301) at a local value store.

Anyone happen have any experience with those and know if any one of them is worth owning?


----------



## Willber (Aug 5, 2019)

Carrow said:


> Where from?


They are available with a discount on Amazon UK:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/1MORE-Headphone-Microphone-Smartphone-E1008-Sport-Rim/dp/B06XSHKNJJ

Tempting...


----------



## cqtek

courierdriver said:


> Thanks! I ordered the 32 ohm Plus version of the earbud, but had to go with a different cable. Penon's website is weird and wouldn't let me open an account or pay. I ended up buying both the earbud and the different cable from Aliexpress, which never has given me any problems.





Willber said:


> The Penon store is accessible on AE (perhaps that is where you bought it from):
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32839862233.html



That's right, the cable can be bought here at Aliexpress.


----------



## HungryPanda

I actually quite like the Remax RM-303 as it has a small shell, good bass and sounds great for the price. The RM-305  has thin metal shells and is more balanced of the two more vocal orientated


----------



## RobinFood

I saw an old Panasonic earbud at a thrift store that used the same shell as the Blur Black Panther. Does anyone know if it is worth picking up used for 5$?


----------



## 40760

HungryPanda said:


> I actually quite like the Remax RM-303 as it has a small shell, good bass and sounds great for the price. The RM-305  has thin metal shells and is more balanced of the two more vocal orientated



I think I'll go grab a pair when I get back there. They RM-303 is about half the price of the RM-305, which makes more of a value proposition.


----------



## HungryPanda

RobinFood said:


> I saw an old Panasonic earbud at a thrift store that used the same shell as the Blur Black Panther. Does anyone know if it is worth picking up used for 5$?


 I would and then a project would start


----------



## Carrow

Willber said:


> They are available with a discount on Amazon UK:
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/1MORE-Headphone-Microphone-Smartphone-E1008-Sport-Rim/dp/B06XSHKNJJ
> 
> Tempting...



They're not even available on Penon anymore! Looks like @palestofwhite is right and they really are being discontinued.


----------



## Willber

Carrow said:


> They're not even available on Penon anymore! Looks like @palestofwhite is right and they really are being discontinued.


They are labelled as 'in stock' on the link I posted, you could ask the supplier to confirm this. Amazon UK ship to Ireland.


----------



## RobinFood

HungryPanda said:


> I would and then a project would start



Hmmm, sounds intriguing. What kind of project would you suggest for someone who has only ever poorly soldered broken laptop wires together? 

For 5$ I might go pick them up if only to give impressions and snap pictures, I just don't know if they will sound any good...

I tried to scan google for them but came up empty.


----------



## HungryPanda

Well I would first have a listen and if I enjoyed them they would stay stock. If not then new drivers and cable would be the next step


----------



## irv003

mochill said:


> Ordered a pair , now the waiting game


 thanks bro!


----------



## XP_98

RobinFood said:


> Looks like Wong just came out with the Blur PK 16. Blur being Blur I am sure it will sound amazing but cost a lot (from 200$ and up). You have to pm him for pricing on the earbuds anonymous FB group. I am very interested but just know I can't afford it now.


Sorry, but above my budget


----------



## mbwilson111

RobinFood said:


> Hmmm, sounds intriguing. What kind of project would you suggest for someone who has only ever poorly soldered broken laptop wires together?
> 
> For 5$ I might go pick them up if only to give impressions and snap pictures, I just don't know if they will sound any good...
> 
> I tried to scan google for them but came up empty.



There is actually a good chance that they will sound good.

The Blur Black Panther uses a Docomo shell... and (as far as I know) the original Docomo drivers.... just re-tuned and with a new cable.


----------



## XP_98 (Aug 5, 2019)

jogawag said:


> Shozy Cygnus seems to be sold at the following site.
> https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/shozy-cygnus.html
> 
> Or DIY SR2 16 ohms (the second of "color:" at the following site) is also recommended and cheap. However, this requires more than 100 hours of burn-in.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32801646835.html


Thank you 
* You think that Cygnus is still a good tip in the yuin shell family, even if a "older" model ?
* Anyone knows about this one https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32950...d=7826amp-hopzwg5-KRzB1quSeLRI9g1565017382490
or another recommended good yuin shell earbud with detachable mmx cable ?
* what about Moonbuds ?
P.s. : I like a balanced to warm sound, and as stated in my signature, my best earbuds are Shozy BK. I search for sonething a little cheaper, if possible as good, as with 3,5'm connector.


----------



## mbwilson111

XP_98 said:


> Thank you
> * You think that Cygnus is still a good tip in the yuin shell family, even if a "older" model ?
> * Anyone knows about this one https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32950062232.html
> or another recommended yuin shell with detachable mmx cable ?



I have not tried that iem but that store is very good to buy from.    We get quite a few drivers and other supplies from them.

If I were in the market right now for something like that I would get it.  It has the red film drivers which are expensive.  You can buy the cable alone, the bud alone, or both together depending on what you need or want.


----------



## jibberish

One issue I discovered with the ME80 last night is that the cable is horribly noisy if you're moving around. I typically only listen to buds when I'm at my desk, so I hadn't noticed it yet, but I was out with the dog listening to them last night and the noise was really distracting. 

I am still enjoying them a lot in general though. Some added burn in and/or a switch to donuts has smoothed out the mid bass hump that had been a bit excessive to my ears.


----------



## jogawag (Aug 5, 2019)

XP_98 said:


> Thank you
> * You think that Cygnus is still a good tip in the yuin shell family, even if a "older" model ?
> P.s. : I like a balanced to warm sound, and as stated in my signature, my best earbuds are Shozy BK. I search for sonething a little cheaper, if possible as good, as with 3,5'm connector.



I think that Cygnus is still a good tip in the yuin shell family, even if a "older" model, because I like Cygnus's sound which has brighter mid-treble than BK's. (They are being said that they use different cables but same docomo drivers.)


----------



## courierdriver

Willber said:


> The Penon store is accessible on AE (perhaps that is where you bought it from):
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32839862233.html


I actually bought a similar banned here on headfi cable (Y****o) from another store on Aliexpress. It was a couple of bucks cheaper and has a chin slider. But, thanks! Both the cable and the buds have already shipped, so I'll be curious to hear what this combo will sound like.


----------



## Scottyyy (Aug 6, 2019)

My Fengru's arrived. I'm very impressed with the overall fidelity. Makes my JVC Gumy's sound like a cheap toy. The only complaint I have is I'm hearing some pretty harsh sibilance when vocalists sing "s". The foams help a little.

I had the same issue when I first got my DT770 Pros as well, but I soon got used to it. Hopefully I just need to use these Fengru's for a while and it'll stop bothering me.

Gotta say though, these are absolutely amazing. Not even for the price, the price is just a ridiculous bonus. They sound genuinely high quality.


----------



## seanc6441

ounwx said:


> Any recs for cheap MMCX cables? I'm probably going to try the RY4S Plus, but can't be bothered to spend $10-20 on a cable to go with it, which is about all I'm seeing on AE. There have to be decent options under $5, no?


The difference between a meh $5 cable and a good $10 cable is totally worth it though for durability and looks/feel.

The $10 nicehck copper cable i linked before would be my rec. Plus mmcx cables aren't just confined to one earbud so its not a bad investment to buy some with decent quality IMO.

I haven't seen much sub $10 cables that look as quality as that nicehck $10 cable.


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> I haven't seen much sub $10 cables that look as quality as that nicehck $10 cable.



Please remind us of the link if you are able to post the html one without the spam part.


----------



## seanc6441

Willber said:


> When I said 'current favourites' I was talking about the cable.
> 
> I haven't listened to either for quite a while but I preferred the 1.0 for it's more natural and balanced sound, from what I remember. If you have a search you will find my and others' impressions of both.
> 
> Having said that, I think most people on here preferred the 1.0+.


1.0+ bass is a bit underwhelming imo. It's not that tight, punchy or extended. I do like the upper treble air, good presence and detail.

Mids i would call a bit cold and fairly neutral and detailed. Not my ideal sound but not bad either. Not the most engaging mids but nothing offensive about them.

Solid wide soundstage and imaging.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Please remind us of the link if you are able to post the html one without the spam part.


My best attempt hope this works

https://aliexpress.com/item/33030782005.html


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> My best attempt hope this works
> 
> https://aliexpress.com/item/33030782005.html



Perfect!  Thanks.


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 6, 2019)

Danneq said:


> My first post in a long long time.
> 
> $500 does sound a bit much compared to $320 for SWD2+
> Those are the last earbuds I bought (last autumn for $199 on Massdrop - ended up around $260 with import taxes and customs fees to Sweden) and I'm amazed at how good they are. Not 100% my prefered sound signature but I'll definitely hold on to them.
> ...


It's general consensus that mx500 and pk plastic shells are excellent performers. But the hugely inflated price is the real issue here. $500 for a driver? Madness. And the fact that its more than +$100 over the previous generation which is also over priced for what you are buying (lets be honest here). Obviously people can spend what they want. But I think the trend recently with TOTL earbuds is to just slap a ludicrous price tag on them and see the die hard fans spend all their savings on it. I've yet to see any evidence that these newer more expensive designs are in any way better than previous gen earbuds in terms of design or development costs.




mbwilson111 said:


> Perfect!  Thanks.


There's even a 2.5mm balanced option for the same price.


----------



## Danneq

seanc6441 said:


> It's general consensus that mx500 and pk plastic shells are excellent performers. But the hugely inflated price is the real issue here. $500 for a driver? Madness. And the fact that its more than +$100 over the previous generation which is also over priced for what you are buying (lets be honest here). Obviously people can spend what they want. But I think the trend recently with TOTL earbuds is to just slap a ludicrous price tag on them and see the die hard fans spend all their savings on it. I've yet to see any evidence that these newer more expensive designs are in any way better than previous gen earbuds in terms of design or development costs.



I agreement on the inflated price. $300 is an acceptable price level for flagship earbuds from smaller makers.

I just think that It's better to justify price with sound than with design and materials, and the $400 ATH CM2000TI was an example of that. A big headphone company that releases a premium priced earbud will be viewed as a standard for TOTL earbuds when you can find sub $20 DIY earbuds that sound better.


----------



## subwoof3r

irv003 said:


> BBB v2


Are you Bisoy ?


----------



## RobinFood

Well, I went out and got the weird Panasonic earbuds at the flee market today. Here they are, hopefully I can get more information on them...




 

They have a short J-cord, so I did most of my listening on my ES100. I tried them without foams first. 

They had really good imaging, and a ton of detail, which was very nice. Doing a sine sweep, they had a response down at 30hz, and got louder to 60hz, then pretty much the same volume until 4k, where it went up, and at 10k the volume was louder too.

They kind of sounded hollow though, and they had almost very slam where I expect it.

I put on some foams, and the sound was much more natural, with a nice mid-bass presence, but still sounded a little hollow and lacked the bass slam, even though the mid bass was doing its work very nicely.

I'm perplexed. I love the imaging and details, and don:t mind the hollow sound too much, but no bass slam means I can:t enjoy a lot of songs the same way anymore. I think I will need more time with them, they might be nice for gaming.


----------



## mbwilson111

RobinFood said:


> They kind of sounded hollow though,



have you double checked that they are in phase?


----------



## RobinFood (Aug 7, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> have you double checked that they are in phase?



How do I check that?
If they are out of phase, can it be fixed somehow?

Edit: According to these tests they are in phase... https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php


----------



## irv003

subwoof3r said:


> Are you Bisoy ?


yes bro.


----------



## flamesofarctica (Aug 7, 2019)

flamesofarctica said:


> Been away from here since late 2017 and been quietly reading away the last few days in catch-up mode.
> 
> Has reminded me of the perils of this place..now have the following on order from Ali...
> 
> ...



Well, in addition to the above 6, I also added in the other Faael Snow Lotus versions (1.0, 2.0 and balanced, gotta catch em all), and the Moondrop Nameless, all a day or two later. Two years of catching up, in a few short days (plus a few weeks delivery time).

So basically 10 new sets of earbuds, of which I have 9 here now and the ShiroYuki at the post office, and of which I've tried out 7.

Overwhelmed with choice, and resisting  switching between buds in a single listening session which might give me some kind of aural overload, it's too early to give real impressions or comparisons yet! I will try in a few weeks after some serious listening time and some time for comparisons with my other gear.

But to note, so far none of the above have been disappointing for their relative price, which is a darn good hit rate.

Standing out due to pure gorgeousness of sound (and that's the best I can give right now) are the Faael's I've tried (the 1.0+ commemorative and the balanced), the RW-9 (hardest to drive, oddly), and the Moondrop Nameless.

Realise my description above isn't even close to Head-Fi standards! But based on my initial standouts, the £10-20 (ish)  bracket seems a  real sweet spot as a step up from the pure budget stuff, and I'm not sure that was there a few years back.

Now, do I have enough money left to seek therapy? Probably not. But seriously, I could have spent the same on one far more expensive set, and had far less fun


----------



## mbwilson111

RobinFood said:


> How do I check that?
> If they are out of phase, can it be fixed somehow?
> 
> Edit: According to these tests they are in phase... https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php



To answer your second question... if a pair of buds is definitely found to be out of phase, you open ONE of them very very carefully so as to not harm the driver. , desolder the two wires and reverse them and resolder.  This also has to be done careful or you can kill the driver.   It is surprising how many do turn out to be out of phase.  

The principle is same as with wiring speakers.... you have to make sure that the positive and negative is attached correctly when you hook them up.

I have not personally done this with buds.  I leave that to my husband @HungryPanda.  I would ruin it for sure...my hands would be shaking... lol.    Of course I can hook up speakers.. they are a bit larger


----------



## mbwilson111

flamesofarctica said:


> resisting switching between buds in a single listening session which might give me some kind of aural overload,



Excellent point.  When I have something new arriving, I often resist listening to anything that day until it arrives... I like to have fresh ears.  When several things arrive at once I have a dilemma.



flamesofarctica said:


> I could have spent the same on one far more expensive set, and had far less fun



Exactly.. and I have had a lot of fun!  Especially when I include the buds that my husband has made.


----------



## RobinFood

I got the Smabat ST-10 back!!!...third time's the charm! 

No rattling, the mmcx is solid, it sounds great...
I changed Amazon seller this time to be sure, but it is probably just a fluke. 

Inspecting it there was no glue blob on the grills, and the mmcx white plastic tube protector thingy seemed to be thicker/longer than I remember on the other ones.
Looks like I will never let this one go, it just sounds so amazing returning it broke my heart each time. 
They have no right to sound this good. 
I seriously don't think I need another earbud ever again.


----------



## subwoof3r (Aug 7, 2019)

RobinFood said:


> I seriously don't think I need another earbud ever again.


That is just.. *IMPOSSIBLE !*


----------



## RobinFood (Aug 7, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> That is just.. *IMPOSSIBLE !*



Well, when you put it like that...I still don't have a quality PK shell bud....and the Koss KDE250 looks kind of interesting...and I also want to get a Blur earbud eventually...


----------



## irv003

fishing earbuds are like hit or miss, from chifi to some custom buds.

but it is a good idea to always start from a chifi buds rather than jumping all the way to high price buds.


----------



## 40760 (Aug 7, 2019)

Seems like a really good day for everyone else! Delivery guy just showed up with the E1008 and I wasted no time unboxing it. Could have been the most elaborate unboxing experience of any earphones I ever own, but cut the chase and went straight for the earbuds and right into the source. I think tonight will be a nice long night which I will be kept very occupied with.


----------



## Willber

palestofwhite said:


> Seems like a really good day for everyone else! Delivery guy just showed up with the E1008 and I wasted no time unboxing it. Could have been the most elaborate unboxing experience of any earphones I ever own, but cut the chase and went straight for the earbuds and right into the source. I think tonight will be a nice long night which I will be kept very occupied with.


I'll be interested to hear your views as it could be a toss-up for me between these and the Ourart Ti7 for about the same price.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> I'll be interested to hear your views as it could be a toss-up for me between these and the Ourart Ti7 for about the same price.



I am minutes away from just going for it.....  the 1More....  something I read makes me think these are not quite as big as I fear... at least with amazon they can go back if they won't fit.  I do hate that it has a mic though.   Any that I have that do have mics, I never touch the buttons... hoping that way nothing will go bad.

I wonder if a small dap would fit in that case that they come with...


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> I am minutes away from just going for it.....  the 1More....  something I read makes me think these are not quite as big as I fear... at least with amazon they can go back if they won't fit.  I do hate that it has a mic though.   Any that I have that do have mics, I never touch the buttons... hoping that way nothing will go bad.


I'm lucky in that I never have a problem with size, but some buds are definitely more comfortable than others. The E1008 certainly look to be more ergonomic than the Ti7. As with sound, I'm sure it is largely (pun!) subjective.

The only thing I use the control buttons for is identifying left and right!


----------



## 40760 (Aug 7, 2019)

I'm not really good at describing what I hear, but contrary to other reviews, I find the E1008 sounding really clean and precise, while not being particularly sharp or harsh (like how the SWD2+ can sometimes get). I'm not sure how much burn in will affect this model too due to it's dual driver construction? Only time will tell. I'm also starting to appreciate my gear in a manner akin to @mbwilson111, which is to appreciate them as a whole instead of just picking on their flaws. Makes me a much happier listener.

Regarding the purchase, I've also wanted to own this pair due to it's unique construction and comprehensiveness of the package (e.g. nice silicone rings, etc.) but couldn't bring myself to pay the full price. So when the opportunity finally presented itself a few days back, where I can get them for about USD$32 after applying discount coupon, totally sealed the deal for me. Even if they priced a bit higher, I still think they're worth it based on just the sheer amount of accessories, built and design.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> The only thing I use the control buttons for is identifying left and right!



LOL... I do too sometimes but oddly enough I have had a couple where the control was on the left.

I will have the E1008 on Friday but probably will not have much time for them until Monday.  You never know who is lurking in here.  I did not want to wait and then have them be gone.   When I was checking out, Amazon gave me a tip... something that they said that other buyers buy as an accessory to the E1008..

Here it is... lol.   I did NOT add it to my cart.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/RHA-T20-Fi...lectronics&sprefix=rh,electronics,157&sr=1-28


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> I am minutes away from just going for it.....  the 1More....  something I read makes me think these are not quite as big as I fear... at least with amazon they can go back if they won't fit.  I do hate that it has a mic though.   Any that I have that do have mics, I never touch the buttons... hoping that way nothing will go bad.
> 
> I wonder if a small dap would fit in that case that they come with...



It's odd that they look similar in size to the MX500 shell but actually feels smaller in the ears. I think it's got something to do with the stem being moved further behind the driver portion.
It can also be due to the fact that I'm using the default silicone rings, and I'm very surprised I'm not getting any bit of discomfort at all, which is almost always not the case except for the smaller PK shell.


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> I'm not really good at describing what I hear, but contrary to other reviews, I find the E1008 sounding really clean and precise, while not being particularly sharp or harsh (like how the SWD2+ can sometimes get). I'm not sure how much burn in will affect this model too due to it's dual driver construction? Only time will tell. I'm also starting to appreciate my gear in a manner akin to @mbwilson111, which is to appreciate them as a whole instead of just picking on their flaws. Makes me a much happier listener.
> 
> Regarding the purchase, I've also wanted to own this pair due to it's unique construction and comprehensiveness of the package (e.g. nice silicone rings, etc.) but couldn't bring myself to pay the full price. So when the opportunity finally presented itself a few days back, where I can get them for about USD$32 after applying discount coupon, totally sealed the deal for me. Even if they priced a bit higher, I still think they're worth it based on just the sheer amount of accessories, built and design.



You are very lucky to have found them for that price.  I know they will sound awesome


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> It's odd that they look similar in size to the MX500 shell but actually feels smaller in the ears. I think it's got something to do with the stem being moved further behind the driver portion.
> It can also be due to the fact that I'm using the default silicone rings, and I'm very surprised I'm not getting any bit of discomfort at all, which is almost always not the case except for the smaller PK shell.



I expect I will use the foams.  So far I have not gotten along well with rings on anything.


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> You are very lucky to have found them for that price.  I know they will sound awesome



Very very lucky indeed! Probably the best deal I've had in years. I think you will enjoy them, because they have a likeable sound presentation. The box and array of accessories are also the highlight. You'll get what I mean when you receive and unbox them.


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> I expect I will use the foams.  So far I have not gotten along well with rings on anything.



This is actually the first time I'm using any form of rings, as I can't really get those thick black ones to fit properly onto those MX shells. I also can't ever get naked earbuds to stay in my ears (yes earholes are large that way ), so this thin silicone that came with the E1008 is as close as I can get for the first time.


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 7, 2019)

Danneq said:


> I agreement on the inflated price. $300 is an acceptable price level for flagship earbuds from smaller makers.
> 
> I just think that It's better to justify price with sound than with design and materials, and the $400 ATH CM2000TI was an example of that. A big headphone company that releases a premium priced earbud will be viewed as a standard for TOTL earbuds when you can find sub $20 DIY earbuds that sound better.


That's a fair point but sound is very subjective. What qualifies these earbuds as having a sound worthy of the price? Nobody measures the technical aspects of earbuds in much detail. The frequency response measurements don't seem to have any general baseline and are almost never provided from a reputable/established source so it's hard to say what's neutral or not. We only have our ears to go by, and everybody hears differently not to mention we all put different value on the sound they hear in terms of how much a certain level of sound quality is worth.

So the only real generally agreed upon benefits of earbuds is that they are convenient for portability/comfort and easy to use, and that the price to performance is great in the budget offerings for the most part.

But once we start talking about $300-500 pairs it becomes less evident that the benefits are there. Since no manufacturers seems to bother with attempting to provide accurate measurements, or try to give details about what benefits the new driver has over older designs It's a complete shot in the dark whether you are getting a product that is superior, inferior or about the same as the best $10-20 earbuds you can buy... And in my opinion, yes there are some TOTL earbuds that are arguably equal to, or worse then some of the better budget offerings).

So I guess my point is, there's really no guarantee you are getting a quality product with TOTL earbuds and with the ever increasing prices i think most of just are just not willing to take the risk when you can buy or DIY your own earbuds that perform almost as well as many current TOTL earbuds at a fraction of the cost.

If you look at other markets usually premium products come with some sort of guarantee of quality, whether its from reputation or through details/facts about the product your buying. You can usually buy assured when you spend a little more. I just don't see that as the case here with these earbuds that are approaching the price of premium mid-higher end headphones and IEM's both of which come with more info in terms of measurements and driver information and also much less risk factor because of the popularity of the product meaning we get better reviews from established sources and more early details about new releases.

I wish these earbud manufacturers would realize this and either provide better information about new releases and offer better warranties for their premium products or just remain in the budget- mid priced market. They cannot have it both ways by releasing expensive high end products but neglecting the benefits buyers expect to receive with them.


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> LOL... I do too sometimes but oddly enough I have had a couple where the control was on the left.
> 
> I will have the E1008 on Friday but probably will not have much time for them until Monday.  You never know who is lurking in here.  I did not want to wait and then have them be gone.   When I was checking out, Amazon gave me a tip... something that they said that other buyers buy as an accessory to the E1008..
> 
> ...


Yes, there is a risk of them selling out but £50 is more than I'd like to spend on an impulse buy.
And anyway, if there are none left it will make my decision easier!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RobinFood said:


> Well, when you put it like that...I still don't have a quality PK shell bud....and the Koss KDE250 looks kind of interesting...and I also want to get a Blur earbud eventually...


Blur! Blur! Blur! Blur........


----------



## mochill

I should have the BBB v2 any day now


----------



## irv003

mochill said:


> I should have the BBB v2 any day now


friday eta, enjoy bro!


----------



## nick n (Aug 8, 2019)

RobinFood said:


> Well, I went out and got the weird Panasonic earbuds at the flee market today. Here they are, hopefully I can get more information on them...
> 
> They have a short J-cord, so I did most of my listening on my ES100. I tried them without foams first.
> They had really good imaging, and a ton of detail, which was very nice. Doing a sine sweep, they had a response down at 30hz, and got louder to 60hz, then pretty much the same volume until 4k, where it went up, and at 10k the volume was louder too.
> ...



These look like *Panasonic RP-HV313 *or see the *** part below

13.5mm driver
16 ohm
Max input 40mw
Sensitivity 102dB
20-20,000 khz   F.R. ( if you care about those often irrelevant specs )
~1999 time period

*** Apparently the straight plug version is  RP-H*J*313 ( "L" plug is the HV313 )

hope that helps


----------



## RobinFood

nick n said:


> These look like *Panasonic RP-HV313 *or see the *** part below
> 
> 13.5mm driver
> 16 ohm
> ...



You found them! Thank you! Even with the model number there wasn't a ton of information. It looks like it was marketed to people with small ears.

Unfortunately I got the ST-10 the same day and the Panasonics can't compete. The just sound so small. I might practice modding on them and hand them to my small eared kids for videos...


----------



## 40760

RobinFood said:


> Well, when you put it like that...I still don't have a quality PK shell bud....and the Koss KDE250 looks kind of interesting...and I also want to get a Blur earbud eventually...



Talking about PK shell buds... I ordered a pair of Shozy BK today...


----------



## 40760 (Aug 8, 2019)

MEMT X6S anyone?


----------



## bigtim

So having discovered this thread back in October I've taken more of an interest in earbuds. I owned the Monks which, to my ears, were great for tunes that didn't need to much bass. Since following the musings in this thread I have picked up the following:
Fengru EMX500
Yincrow X6
K's 64ohm
Fengru EMX500s
Vido 
RY4S UE cable
Snow Lotus Commemorative Edition
Snow Lotus 2.5mm balanced
Yincrow RW-9 
Smabat ST-10
Fengru Tingo
WillSound MK32

The EMX500 really sparked the interest and it's those, the X6, RW-9, Tingo and WillSounds that have really stood out to me and had the most use. I love earbuds for wearing at work but if I want something with bass slam I turn to IEMs (mostly iBasso IT01). I definitely don't need any more earbuds  but yeah, that's not going to happen so the search for more bass (sub-bass and mid-bass) continues. On the possible list is the RY4S plus mmcx but I'm open to suggestions. 

What's your favourite earbud for when you want some low-down bass fun?


----------



## mochill

irv003 said:


> friday eta, enjoy bro!


Looks like it's at my post office today


----------



## mochill

bigtim said:


> So having discovered this thread back in October I've taken more of an interest in earbuds. I owned the Monks which, to my ears, were great for tunes that didn't need to much bass. Since following the musings in this thread I have picked up the following:
> Fengru EMX500
> Yincrow X6
> K's 64ohm
> ...


Get the kubev1 and v2 for bass .


----------



## bigtim

mochill said:


> Get the kubev1 and v2 for bass .



Ah yes, forgot about those when doing my list as I've ordered some orange V1s which should get here in a few weeks. Looking forward to trying these!


----------



## Willber (Aug 8, 2019)

bigtim said:


> So having discovered this thread back in October I've taken more of an interest in earbuds. I owned the Monks which, to my ears, were great for tunes that didn't need to much bass. Since following the musings in this thread I have picked up the following:
> Fengru EMX500
> Yincrow X6
> K's 64ohm
> ...


Another option is to mod some of those that you have. @seanc6441 is the man who knows about extracting the last ounce of bass from his buds!


----------



## mochill

bigtim said:


> Ah yes, forgot about those when doing my list as I've ordered some orange V1s which should get here in a few weeks. Looking forward to trying these!


I have the black and orange too


----------



## irv003

mochill said:


> Looks like it's at my post office today


alright!


----------



## jogawag (Aug 8, 2019)

bigtim said:


> So having discovered this thread back in October I've taken more of an interest in earbuds. I owned the Monks which, to my ears, were great for tunes that didn't need to much bass. Since following the musings in this thread I have picked up the following:
> Fengru EMX500
> Yincrow X6
> K's 64ohm
> ...



Hi, @bigtim.
I have most of the earbuds on your list of earbuds, and I think Smabat ST-10 is my favorite bass earbuds on the list. So I can't understand why Smabat ST-10 was not chosen as your favorite bass earbuds.
If the reason is that you can't hear the mid-high sound clearly, switching to a silver-plated MMCX cable will improve the sound balance.
A silver-plated MMCX cable can be purchased at AliExpless for more than a few dollars.


----------



## assassin10000

Modded my BT20S for use with my ACG's.

I was going to just rotate the connector end like I had on my old BT20 but these said no. I had no sound from one side after rotation, so I had to swap to a straight MMCX connector and soft earhooks.


----------



## courierdriver

bigtim said:


> So having discovered this thread back in October I've taken more of an interest in earbuds. I owned the Monks which, to my ears, were great for tunes that didn't need to much bass. Since following the musings in this thread I have picked up the following:
> Fengru EMX500
> Yincrow X6
> K's 64ohm
> ...


On the possible list is the RY4S plus mmcx but I'm open to suggestions.

I'm awaiting my set of these. Can anyone describe in some more detail how these sound? I like that they have removable cables, which is why I bought them. I won't buy anything anymore that doesn't have removable cables.


----------



## pr0b3r

BBB v1 - a serious contender for budget buds that deliver way more above its asking price, I'll vouch for that!   

I heard that the v2 is even better.  Damn!


----------



## bigtim

jogawag said:


> Hi, @bigtim.
> I have most of the earbuds on your list of earbuds, and I think Smabat ST-10 is my favorite bass earbuds on the list. So I can't understand why Smabat ST-10 was not chosen as your favorite bass earbuds.
> If the reason is that you can't hear the mid-high sound clearly, switching to a silver-plated MMCX cable will improve the sound balance.
> A silver-plated MMCX cable can be purchased at AliExpless for more than a few dollars.



The Smabats sound amazing...but only when I hold them in with my finger. I have some fit-issues wearing them over ear. I plan on using the cable that I get with the RY4S to try on the Smabats and wear them facing down. Was thinking of selling them but can't bring myself to do it as when I do hear their sound by holding them in place they are great.


----------



## jogawag (Aug 9, 2019)

bigtim said:


> The Smabats sound amazing...but only when I hold them in with my finger. I have some fit-issues wearing them over ear. I plan on using the cable that I get with the RY4S to try on the Smabats and wear them facing down. Was thinking of selling them but can't bring myself to do it as when I do hear their sound by holding them in place they are great.


I also have same fit-issues wearing them "over" ear. So I am wearing with swapping the R & L housings around, so that the connectors are pointing down.


----------



## 40760 (Aug 9, 2019)

So I went back to the value shop and gotten myself both the REMAX RM-303 & RM-305 models.

Surprisingly the cheaper plastic RM-303 sounds better than the all metal RM-305, especially the bass.

I might have to stock up more of these soon... 

EDIT: While the RM-303 sounded great out of the box, the RM-305 actually came with specific instructions to burn them in for optimal sound. Will give it the recommended 150 hours it needs to be fair.


----------



## assassin10000

bigtim said:


> The Smabats sound amazing...but only when I hold them in with my finger. I have some fit-issues wearing them over ear. I plan on using the cable that I get with the RY4S to try on the Smabats and wear them facing down. Was thinking of selling them but can't bring myself to do it as when I do hear their sound by holding them in place they are great.





jogawag said:


> I also have some fit-issues wearing them over ear. So I am wearing with swapping the R & L housings around, so that the connectors are pointing down.



You could also swap left & right and still wear over ear. If the shape of the ST-10 rear housing is held away due to the tragus, doing this would put it over the concha.

Similar to how I use them on my BT20S:


----------



## subwoof3r

bigtim said:


> So having discovered this thread back in October I've taken more of an interest in earbuds. I owned the Monks which, to my ears, were great for tunes that didn't need to much bass. Since following the musings in this thread I have picked up the following:
> [...]
> *Fengru EMX500
> Fengru EMX500s
> ...


If you own those following buds and keep asking for even more low-bass, then you have a problem!


----------



## 40760

HungryPanda said:


> I actually quite like the Remax RM-303 as it has a small shell, good bass and sounds great for the price. The RM-305  has thin metal shells and is more balanced of the two more vocal orientated



The RM-303 should be commended for wearing comfort and great sound, and be recommended for those who want bass but could not deal with the larger size of MX500 shells.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Aug 9, 2019)

irv003 said:


> you need to try the BBB v2



I have no idea how to buy these or how much they cost.



subwoof3r said:


> If you own those following buds and keep asking for even more low-bass, then you have a problem!



Maybe a fit issue?  Some people need to put a donut foam on top of a regular foam to get a seal. 



palestofwhite said:


> The RM-303 should be commended for wearing comfort and great sound, and be recommended for those who want bass but could not deal with the larger size of MX500 shells.



Yes, I find the RM-303 to be very comfortable, and, as you say, they do sound great.  Remember the guy that kept asking for a bud with a mic?  People kept suggesting the RM-303 and he kept making excuses not to try it.   Actually it was during that time that I just had to try one ...in spite of the fact that I prefer to not have a mic 

meanwhile... my go to for bass at the moment ... with incredible overall sound is the latest creation by my husband.  The HungryPanda Mammoth.    I know... it is mean to tease everyone with these... but there are also excellent buds that you CAN buy.   Also some of you might be inspired to try making some.

The shells are the same as those used by the Fengru Silver


----------



## Brave Heart

I recieved the VE Monk Plus a couple of days ago and, while the sound was decent, I found the stock foams pretty uncomfortable. I'm waiting on a delivery of foams that will hopefully be more confortable.


----------



## 40760 (Aug 9, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Yes, I find the RM-303 to be very comfortable, and, as you say, they do sound great. Remember the guy that kept asking for a bud with a mic?  People kept suggesting the RM-303 and he kept making excuses not to try it.   Actually it was during that time that I just had to try one ...in spite of the fact that I prefer to not have a mic



I would rather not have a mic module as well, especially the larger 3 button kind on the RM-305. However, the RM-305 are really well made though, with really thick cables and using a more durable type of aluminium as compared to the E1008 which scratches easily (earpieces hitting against each other during handling and storage).

While I let the RM-305 burn-in, I am enjoying the RM-303 for the night. There is also an RM-301 which is going for even cheaper (and with more colours), but will have to get them online. Now the question is if I should?


----------



## HungryPanda

palestofwhite said:


> I would rather not have a mic module as well, especially the larger 3 button kind on the RM-305. However, the RM-305 are really well made though, with really thick cables and using a more durable type of aluminium as compared to the E1008 which scratches easily (earpieces hitting against each other during handling and storage).
> 
> While I let the RM-305 burn-in, I am enjoying the RM-303 for the night. There is also an RM-301 which is going for even cheaper (and with more colours), but will have to get them online. Now the question is if I should?


Only you can decide on this


----------



## 40760

HungryPanda said:


> Only you can decide on this



Oh yes! I'll go try and dig for more reviews online to help me decide. Am actually thinking of getting another pair of the RM-303 in another colour as spare... 

BTW, could you tell if your RM-305 improved over time with burn-in? The instructions were *very* specific in that regard, and included some steps for the interval and volume amount one must apply for them to sound optimal (~ 90%). I guess they were a direct translation from Chinese, so it might be a hit or miss when I was trying to interpret.


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> I would rather not have a mic module as well, especially the larger 3 button kind on the RM-305. However, the RM-305 are really well made though, with really thick cables and using a more durable type of aluminium as compared to the E1008 which scratches easily (earpieces hitting against each other during handling and storage).
> 
> While I let the RM-305 burn-in, I am enjoying the RM-303 for the night. There is also an RM-301 which is going for even cheaper (and with more colours), but will have to get them online. Now the question is if I should?




That RM-301 ould be an interesting project for a recable if I like the color choices   I will google it.

Thanks for the warning about the E1008.  They have just arrived today.  Unboxed them but not listened yet.

Do they win the prize for over-packaging?  LOL  The box with contents weighs over a pound!!!  You could fit a portable headphone in there.

I will not let mine get scratched...I will not just drop them into that provided case.  I will use another type of case.   I have a dap that will fit perfectly into that case.  I currently only had that in a little bag.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have not burned them in enough to be honest. I will dig them out later and have a listen


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> That RM-301 ould be an interesting project for a recable if I like the color choices   I will google it.
> 
> Thanks for the warning about the E1008.  They have just arrived today.  Unboxed them but not listened yet.
> 
> ...



The RM-301 has a really nice pink one.

The E1008's packaging is insane. Just be sure not to let the 2 ear pieces touch each other, even when you're trying to coil them up to keep. Mine's already slightly scratched up from trying to place them in the provided case. There are also some marks on the black plastic body of my remote, but I suspect there were already there. Maybe it's more of a QC thing.

Did yours arrive in pristine condition? I'm burning mine in along with the RM-305...


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> Did yours arrive in pristine condition? I'm burning mine in along with the RM-305.



I think so.  They are really hard to photograph.  Not sure what to think of those silicone things that are already on them.  I will try it that way but will probably go to foams.

There was shrink wrap around the box.  Did yours have that?   I have many books smaller than that box   I think it is a waste of resources and am happy to spend a bit less and have minimal packaging.  I do appreciate the inclusion of simple zippered round or square case.    I am happy that I do have a use for the fancy one they included.    Amazon Uk only has the gold version but it is not a yellow gold...more of a light bronze.


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> I think so.  They are really hard to photograph.  Not sure what to think of those silicone things that are already on them.  I will try it that way but will probably go to foams.
> 
> There was shrink wrap around the box.  Did yours have that?   I have many books smaller than that box   I think it is a waste of resources and am happy to spend a bit less and have minimal packaging.  I do appreciate the inclusion of simple zippered round or square case.    I am happy that I do have a use for the fancy one they included.    Amazon Uk only has the gold version but it is not a yellow gold...more of a light bronze.



Yep that's the exact same way I got them. There's a shrink wrap and also a small wrap around cardboard binder with perforation which you can tear.
Although the case is nice, it's a cumbersome style for storing earbuds, so I'm going to use the standard black zip-around ones as well.

The colour is a mix of rose gold and brass? And I think there is only one version. I do like the silicone ring, but I have a feeling it might sound better with foams, but have not tried that yet.


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 9, 2019)

Willber said:


> Another option is to mod some of those that you have. @seanc6441 is the man who knows about extracting the last ounce of bass from his buds!


Kube, willsound, ks black ling, vido, are the bassiest earbuds ive used and modded

For price-performance the kube has the best bass because it's slightly more linear than the mk2 with less upper bass bloat.

You probably need to buy a few kubes though because unit variance seems to be a thing.

I could imagine if you are not opposed to using EQ and grabbed a pair of kube or willsound mk2 you could bump the sub bass, drop the upper bass and you'd have yourself some nice punchy well extended bass for the form factor.

The kube need a few more db in the highs when used with full foams. Also the mids could be touched up in a few places to get the right tonal balance.

But they are good without any notable major flaws IMO.


----------



## seanc6441

subwoof3r said:


> If you own those following buds and keep asking for even more low-bass, then you have a problem!


Well... He probably wants some sub bass around 20-40hz which earbuds barely produce without a seal to be fair.

Although expecting even moderate sub bass from an earbud is unrealistic without heavy EQ.


----------



## mochill

seanc6441 said:


> Well... He probably wants some sub bass around 20-40hz which earbuds barely produce without a seal to be fair.
> 
> Although expecting even moderate sub bass from an earbud is unrealistic without heavy EQ.


I want moar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  , you should get the BBB v2


----------



## golov17

Willsound MK32se in stock now


----------



## 40760

Returned the REMAX RM-305 today and gotten myself 2 more pairs of the RM-303 as spares.

All was great until my E1008 ran into a left driver issue while burning-in. Not sure what to make of it, but there's a static hissing noise coming from the left driver and it's also considerably softer than the volume of the right side. Will have to arrange and do an RMA next week.


----------



## XP_98

XP_98 said:


> Thank you
> * You think that Cygnus is still a good tip in the yuin shell family, even if a "older" model ?
> * Anyone knows about this one https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32950...d=7826amp-hopzwg5-KRzB1quSeLRI9g1565017382490
> or another recommended good yuin shell earbud with detachable mmx cable ?
> ...


Finally, following a recommandation on my favourite French audio forum, I ended contacting the guy from Pureson Audio.
He will make me custom earbuds in a Yuin shell, with mmcx cable.
I will report about the result, they should arrive in about a month.


----------



## RobinFood

XP_98 said:


> Finally, following a recommandation on my favourite French audio forum, I ended contacting the guy from Pureson Audio.
> He will make me custom earbuds in a Yuin shell, with mmcx cable.
> I will report about the result, they should arrive in about a month.



French audio forum? Please share, French is my mother tongue but I haven't browsed in French in years.

I just checked out Pureson, they seem really interesting. Did you get the MMCX Aegis?


----------



## Pictograms

Hey people, I feel like I remember reading about some form of electro-static earbud being made by some boutique group... anyone have any idea?
I’m looking for something that is very fast, Abyss ha gotten me addicted to it.


----------



## RobinFood (Aug 10, 2019)

Pictograms said:


> Hey people, I feel like I remember reading about some form of electro-static earbud being made by some boutique group... anyone have any idea?
> I’m looking for something that is very fast, Abyss ha gotten me addicted to it.



Stax SR-003 maybe? It is kind of an iem/earbud hybrid. I hear it is uncomfortable, so they made eartips you can buy separately that don't completely seal ala bose stayfit tips.

https://stax.co.jp/products/sr-003mk2/


You need an energizer too...

With portable energizer...

https://stax.co.jp/products/srs-002/

Here are the comfort tips and cups to change them from open buds to closed buds if you want.

https://stax.co.jp/products/ces-a1/


----------



## golov17

RobinFood said:


> French audio forum? Please share, French is my mother tongue but I haven't browsed in French in years.
> 
> I just checked out Pureson, they seem really interesting. Did you get the MMCX Aegis?


Maybe http://www.tellementnomade.org/forum/


----------



## nick n (Aug 10, 2019)

Stax SRS-002 is the actual newer portable setup version.

BUT I think I also saw something in actual earbud form mentioned somewhere just cannot recall.
If anything they would use the newer versions of permanently charged  drivers ( electret= still technically electrostatic  ) not likely full bias at all ,with maybe some sort of cable dongle with the small transformers in it for the thing.


----------



## RobinFood (Aug 10, 2019)

golov17 said:


> Maybe http://www.tellementnomade.org/forum/



Thats it! Found the post mentioning the Pureson pk buds. Really tempted to order some. I wonder if my wife will mind seeing as I just got the ST-10...what's wrong with me?!


----------



## XP_98

RobinFood said:


> French audio forum? Please share, French is my mother tongue but I haven't browsed in French in years.
> 
> I just checked out Pureson, they seem really interesting. Did you get the MMCX Aegis?


The french audio forum, very active :
http://www.tellementnomade.org/forum/index.php

The guy from Pureson Audio seems very serious, and gives a lot of tuning options. Of course, I will give my final opinion once I get my earbuds...


----------



## XP_98

RobinFood said:


> French audio forum? Please share, French is my mother tongue but I haven't browsed in French in years.
> 
> I just checked out Pureson, they seem really interesting. Did you get the MMCX Aegis?


Forgot to answer to the last question : the Yuin shell mmcx (optional) buds are Agares.


----------



## Pictograms

RobinFood said:


> Stax SR-003 maybe? It is kind of an iem/earbud hybrid. I hear it is uncomfortable, so they made eartips you can buy separately that don't completely seal ala bose stayfit tips.
> 
> https://stax.co.jp/products/sr-003mk2/
> 
> ...




Thanks, but it was definitely in a actual ear bud shape... oh I think I have just remembered thanks to @nick n  that is was  piezoelectric. Okay now I can search for it!


----------



## Pictograms

I guess what I was probably thinking of the Pislo by Artvano 




although I cant seem to find anything about it, anyone know of any reviews yet?
The only thing I have seen is from https://headphone.guru/canjam-socal-2019-coverage-sponsored-by-distinctive-stereo-part-1/
“They also have a penchant for organic shapes as can be seen by their PISLO PX ($1,659 USD), which had an open and airy sound, though their shape made it impossible for me to get a seal, which may be intentional...”
That’s 1000$ more then was previously mentioned! Although this one hasn’t PX on the end


----------



## Willber

irv003 said:


> BBB v2


Why do you keep posting these random pictures, are you a trader?


----------



## irv003

palestofwhite said:


> Looking good! I'm eagerly waiting for mine to arrive...


nice! give us impressions once arrive. how much you got it?


----------



## 40760

irv003 said:


> nice! give us impressions once arrive. how much you got it?



Gotten it close to retail. Don't think I'll receive them so soon though to start any reviewing...


----------



## 40760

irv003 said:


> wow, still 160~ usd,
> mines almost 2yrs old now



Yup. I've checked and the Shozy line of eabuds have pretty much kept their prices over the years. Unless you're talking about the used market.


----------



## KevDzn (Aug 12, 2019)

When the BK and Cygnus came out, I just could not justified dropping that kind of cash for it. If I recalled correctly someone mentioned that the BK and Cygnus drivers are the same, just with different cables being used and the drivers are Docomo NTT earbuds for Japan market only. So I sourced around and my local seller managed to get some original Docomo NTT earbuds in white. Long story short, I made my own diy BK earbuds.


----------



## golov17

palestofwhite said:


> Yup. I've checked and the Shozy line of eabuds have pretty much kept their prices over the years. Unless you're talking about the used market.


because cable is not cheap


----------



## chinmie

KevDzn said:


> When the BK and Cygnus came out, I just could not justified dropping that kind of cash for it. If I recalled correctly someone mentioned that the BK and Cygnus drivers are the same, just with different cables being used and the drivers are Docomo NTT earbuds for Japan market only. So I sourced around and my local seller managed to get some original Docomo NTT earbuds in white. Long story short, I made my own BK earbuds.



do they sound the same to the original BK though? because just the same driver doesn't guarantee the same result. a builder once told me that he can use any driver and tune them to sound the same, as long as it's the same impedance. on the other hand, he can tune the same driver to different tunings and characteristics. so tuning have a significant effect.

after all, BK and Cygnus sound different, not just in EQ, but also in resolution. and I've heard more than 5 BKs that varied slightly in sound


----------



## KevDzn

Yeah agreed, the BK cable are really costly.


----------



## KevDzn (Aug 12, 2019)

chinmie said:


> do they sound the same to the original BK though? because just the same driver doesn't guarantee the same result. a builder once told me that he can use any driver and tune them to sound the same, as long as it's the same impedance. on the other hand, he can tune the same driver to different tunings and characteristics. so tuning have a significant effect.
> 
> after all, BK and Cygnus sound different, not just in EQ, but also in resolution. and I've heard more than 5 BKs that varied slightly in sound



Unfortunately I've not had the chance to audition a BK. I do agree with you on the "mastery" in tuning, those dudes are sifus of earbuds!
For me, the diy BK's SQ is in the league of zen2 but with more body and slight punchy bass. I experimented with different types of cables and it do changes the SQ.
Most noticeable is between SPC and OFC cables. SPC is more laid back, OFC has more thump and dynamics.


----------



## KevDzn (Aug 12, 2019)

The Red Vido hype is REAL!
Been using my red vido for a couple of days and MAN! it really really sounds GOOD!


----------



## chinmie

KevDzn said:


> Unfortunately I've not had the chance to audition a BK. I do agree with you on the "mastery" in tuning, those dudes are sifus of earbuds!
> For me, the diy BK's SQ is in the league of zen2 but with more body and slight punchy bass. I experimented with different types of cables and it do changes the SQ.
> Most noticeable is between SPC and OFC cables. SPC is more laid back, OFC has more thump and dynamics.



don't put yourself down yet. who knows, after some experimenting, you might come up with your own original hit


----------



## 40760 (Aug 12, 2019)

After parting ways with the SWD2+, I missed the comfort of the PK shell and wanted a "TOTL" that is also less fatiguing.

The Shozy B.K felt like the perfect candidate as I really like the looks and choice of cable and Oyaide plug. However there are mixed reviews of the B.K but I'm taking the leap of faith in this one.

I would have also considered the cheaper Cygnus, if not for cable oxidisation which will definitely trigger my OCD.


----------



## subwoof3r (Aug 12, 2019)

KevDzn said:


> The Red Vido hype is REAL!
> Been using my red vido for a couple of days and MAN! it really really sounds GOOD!


Where did you bought yours? (*edit*: I guess *THIS link* ?)
Want to give a try 

From my collection, I really think that my yet best 5$ earbuds is TY Hi-Z TY (32ohm).
I'm curious about those positive reviews about the red Vido.
I have a white and blue ones but didn't liked the signature at all. Hope to change my mind on this red edition ^^


----------



## KevDzn

chinmie said:


> don't put yourself down yet. who knows, after some experimenting, you might come up with your own original hit



Thanks for the encouragement but me modding skills are quite limited.
I normally only mod earbuds that WOW me by swapping out different cables, plugs and damping just to enhance the SQ.
Doing it purely as a hobby for self-satisfaction.


----------



## KevDzn

subwoof3r said:


> Where did you bought yours? (*edit*: I guess *THIS link* ?)
> Want to give a try
> 
> From my collection, I really think that my yet best 5$ earbuds is TY Hi-Z TY (32ohm).
> ...



I got the red Vido from SHOPEE, a local online site and it cost less than the blue/white Vidos. Bought slightly more than a dozen (yes, I'm a hoarder).
It just sounds more natural to me. Bass are cleaner & more defined, better clarity in the mids and treble. Overall not so warm/dark as the original Vidos.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

palestofwhite said:


> After parting ways with the SWD2+, I missed the comfort of the PK shell and wanted a "TOTL" that is also less fatiguing.
> 
> The Shozy B.K felt like the perfect candidate as I really like the looks and choice of cable and Oyaide plug. However there are mixed reviews of the B.K but I'm taking the leap of faith in this one.
> 
> I would have also considered the cheaper Cygnus, if not for cable oxidisation which will definitely trigger my OCD.


You might consider *CrystalCore Audio*... very comfy and non-fatiguing signature. Here are some recent posts regarding such: *post1*; *post2*; *post3*


----------



## seanc6441

palestofwhite said:


> After parting ways with the SWD2+, I missed the comfort of the PK shell and wanted a "TOTL" that is also less fatiguing.
> 
> The Shozy B.K felt like the perfect candidate as I really like the looks and choice of cable and Oyaide plug. However there are mixed reviews of the B.K but I'm taking the leap of faith in this one.
> 
> I would have also considered the cheaper Cygnus, if not for cable oxidisation which will definitely trigger my OCD.


Loved my old SE brown cable bk. Not perfect but had a charm to it.

Found the 2.5 BAL grey cable bk to be a bit dull and boring.

Both had a similar overall balance but i wasnt loving the second one I got. I've no idea if it was me or the earbud variance though.


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> Loved my old SE brown cable bk. Not perfect but had a charm to it.
> 
> Found the 2.5 BAL grey cable bk to be a bit dull and boring.
> 
> Both had a similar overall balance but i wasnt loving the second one I got. I've no idea if it was me or the earbud variance though.



@chinmie mentioned about going through 5 pairs with sound variation, which might not be surprising for your balanced pair to turn out different.
But could you perhaps describe to what degree they sound dull/boring when compared to your previous 3.5mm pair? If it's significant then that'd be quite odd.

I also remember some posts earlier, mentioning cases of people ordering and swapping out the original drivers before returning them. Maybe that's why there are such polarising reviews about them. I ordered my pair from an authorised Shozy dealer just to be on the safer side. Fingers crossed though.


----------



## seanc6441

palestofwhite said:


> @chinmie mentioned about going through 5 pairs with sound variation, which might not be surprising for your balanced pair to turn out different.
> But could you perhaps describe to what degree they sound dull/boring when compared to your previous 3.5mm pair? If it's significant then that'd be quite odd.
> 
> I also remember some posts earlier, mentioning cases of people ordering and swapping out the original drivers before returning them. Maybe that's why there are such polarising reviews about them. I ordered my pair from an authorised Shozy dealer just to be on the safer side. Fingers crossed though.


I got mine directly from shozy as an 'upgrade' to my 3.5 SE (wish i could take that back now lol). So mine was most likely legit. Just didn't wow me.


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> I also remember some posts earlier, mentioning cases of people ordering and swapping out the original drivers before returning them.



That is horrible.  I had no idea someone would do that.  I guess I assume people are honest.


----------



## 40760 (Aug 12, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> That is horrible.  I had no idea someone would do that.  I guess I assume people are honest.



Yes, and they are getting more creative by the day. On another HF thread, one guy even suggested (multiple times) ordering an exact model from Amazon to swap out the new pair and "accidentally" return an old faulty pair bought from somewhere else, to circumvent not having warranty or some sorts. Didn't know how such criminal behaviour can go pretty much unnoticed or without much repercussions here.

At this stage I'm also suspecting that my E1008 might not have been "sealed" and brand new. Instead of just the left channel being softer, both drivers have crapped out altogether when I gave them another try today. I'll be heading to the dealer's office this Thursday to hopefully have them replaced.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Aug 12, 2019)

palestofwhite said:


> At this stage I'm also suspecting that my E1008 might not have been "sealed" and brand new. Instead of just the left channel being softer, both drivers have crapped out altogether when I gave them another try today. I'll be heading to the dealer's office this Thursday to hopefully have them replaced.



I wondered when you mentioned the scratches.  I honestly don't think that would happen from the shells touching each other.

@palestofwhite    I should add that when I tried them with the silicone cover (which was preinstalled),  the sound was not full enough for me.   Took the covers off and put on the provided full foams... they sounded great but the foams kept sliding around because of the shape and finish.   So, now I am using them with the full foams on top of the silicone covers.  No more sliding.  I plan to listen to some albums tonight with these.


----------



## 40760 (Aug 12, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I wondered when you mentioned the scratches.  I honestly don't think that would happen from the shells touching each other.
> 
> @palestofwhite    I should add that when I tried them with the silicone cover (which was preinstalled),  the sound was not full enough for me.   Took the covers off and put on the provided full foams... they sounded great but the foams kept sliding around because of the shape and finisht.   So, now I am using them with the full foams on top of the silicone covers.  No more sliding.  I plan to listen to some albums tonight with these.



I'll have to play around after I get them replaced and I think I know what you mean by them not sounding full. They are just really clear without much low end when without much seal.

I'm thinking maybe I should follow your steps, but instead do donuts on top of the rings, as donuts never worked well for my ears as they shift around ALL the time. This time with the grip of the silicone, it might turn out different...


----------



## mbwilson111 (Aug 12, 2019)

palestofwhite said:


> I'll have to play around after I get them replaced and I think I know what you mean by them not sounding full. They are just really clear without much low end when without much seal.
> 
> I'm thinking maybe I should follow your steps, but instead do donuts on top of the rings, as donuts never worked well for my ears as they shift around ALL the time. This time with the grip of the silicone, it might turn out different...



Then you could still see the cool looking front.   Maybe I will try that... unless I think they would be too bright.  They do have low end with a seal.  I do not plan to use those weird silicone things with the extra loop.

The shifting is the reason I do not use donuts.  Donuts on top of foams like some people do makes any bud too big for me.


----------



## Pictograms

I emailed artvano about there interesting looking wood earbud (that doesn’t seem to have any porting) but haven’t heard back...
On a different note has anyone tried either the moondroop CHACONNE or the Ks ti-bell?
I saw @ClieOS had a few comments but that all I see, anyone?


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Loved my old SE brown cable bk. Not perfect but had a charm to it.
> 
> Found the 2.5 BAL grey cable bk to be a bit dull and boring.
> 
> Both had a similar overall balance but i wasnt loving the second one I got. I've no idea if it was me or the earbud variance though.



maybe it's gain related issue? higher gain affects tonality, usually by making BA drivers brighter because it attenuates the lower frequency, and on the Dynamic drivers i found it usually adds slight compression to the whole sound, making the attack slower. in some earphones that would result in a slightly warmer or duller sound.

balanced out would normally has higher gain than SE. 

add to the equation that the BK has small impedance, so it would be sensitive to other changes on the signal path


----------



## ClieOS

Pictograms said:


> I emailed artvano about there interesting looking wood earbud (that doesn’t seem to have any porting) but haven’t heard back...
> On a different note has anyone tried either the moondroop CHACONNE or the Ks ti-bell?
> I saw @ClieOS had a few comments but that all I see, anyone?



Given the price tag, don't think many will have both. I do still maintain my previous assessment that I prefer K's Ti-Bell over Chaconne just a little bit more. While technically strong, I find Chaconne doesn't convey emotion nearly as good as Ti-Bell as its vocal can be slightly dry at time.


----------



## ounwx

Received the* Fengru TC300* earlier and just updated my main review post. Will also paste my first impressions here, since I haven't found much else on HF about them.

-------------

Relatively flat and balanced EQ. Moderately wide soundstage. Good clarity.

I bought these after receiving my first pair of TC200s, as those were my favorite out of 10+ buds I’d collected at that time. The TC300 is slightly pricier ($8 vs. $5) and the seller insinuates that it’s a bassier version of the TC200, which is precisely what I wanted. In reality, these have a markedly different signature from the TC200, but they’re still really good. Whereas the TC200 has what I’d consider the ideal EQ -- moderately V-shaped, but not obnoxiously so -- these are quite noticeably flatter. Their sound is very similar to the FAAEAL Snow-Lotus 1.0+ CE in almost every respect. In A/B testing the two, I swapped them 5-10x and still struggled to pinpoint differences I was completely confident in. My initial impression is that the TC300 is ever so slightly less flat (a touch more bass and a touch less rolled-off treble than the SL1.0+), but it’s really splitting hairs. Probably as a result of any minor EQ difference, I’d also describe the TC300 as the tiniest bit clearer and less grainy.

Build quality is good. The cable is black, instead of gray like the TC200. The jack is connected to a cylindrical faux-metal piece, instead of a flatter plastic one on the TC200. Otherwise, it would be hard to tell them apart.

It’s hard for me to decide whether these are deserving of the same high praise as the legendary TC200/Silver, because the flat signature of the TC300 isn’t my preferred style. What I can say is that you shouldn’t buy them expecting a straightforward upgrade from the TC200; also, the bass quantity isn’t really much more (if any). I would highly recommend these as an alternative to the SL1.0+, as I prefer their form factor and they’re around the same price.


----------



## ballog (Aug 13, 2019)

Just came across this photos from a feedback of the red Vido on Aliexpress ..






Great photography skill...as usual and guess who it's from ? Tip - he's most probably the original champion of the Vido.


----------



## seanc6441

For anyone curious, this is what the $10 nicehck cable looks like





Super soft cable.
Average strain relief (doesn't need much as the cable is so soft and flexible)
Very solid plug and splitter.
Light cable but feels durable.

The best budget cable I've held so far and comes recommended from the cable thread.

Only thing is you need to remove the plastic earhook yourself if you want to wear it down. It's not memory wire so it's not great for over ear use either. I'll be removing it soon from mine.


----------



## KevDzn (Aug 13, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> For anyone curious, this is what the $10 nicehck cable looks like



Yeah agreed. Got one for my Bgvp DX3 and it does sound great.

I noticed that the splitter and plugs looks similar to the trns. Same manufacturer?


----------



## RobinFood

Just wanted to say, the VE Odyssey is SUCH a great match for the ST-10. I don't know why, maybe my other sources are too polite, but it sounds so much more realistic on my PC with the Odyssey than on my Shanling M0 or my ES100. Bass seems thicker, and the staging seems better. Guitars sound really good, listening to old psychedelic rock with them now. 

Strange, the only reason I have this 5$ dongle is because my PC's 3.5mm jack broke....


----------



## seanc6441

RobinFood said:


> Just wanted to say, the VE Odyssey is SUCH a great match for the ST-10. I don't know why, maybe my other sources are too polite, but it sounds so much more realistic on my PC with the Odyssey than on my Shanling M0 or my ES100. Bass seems thicker, and the staging seems better. Guitars sound really good, listening to old psychedelic rock with them now.
> 
> Strange, the only reason I have this 5$ dongle is because my PC's 3.5mm jack broke....


Does the pc's usb port provide more power than a phones? Could be the reason?


----------



## 40760

RobinFood said:


> Just wanted to say, the VE Odyssey is SUCH a great match for the ST-10. I don't know why, maybe my other sources are too polite, but it sounds so much more realistic on my PC with the Odyssey than on my Shanling M0 or my ES100. Bass seems thicker, and the staging seems better. Guitars sound really good, listening to old psychedelic rock with them now.
> 
> Strange, the only reason I have this 5$ dongle is because my PC's 3.5mm jack broke....



What a strange coincidence. I'm getting some work done on my laptop, plugged and playing with the VE Odyssey HD and Remax RM-303 combo right now.


----------



## RobinFood

seanc6441 said:


> Does the pc's usb port provide more power than a phones? Could be the reason?



It probably does pump out a lot more power than my DAP or ES100, but the Odyssey connected to the Shanling M0 sounds similar. It has a much more pronounced sub-bass and keeps separation a bit better and staging is a bit wider.


----------



## RobinFood

palestofwhite said:


> What a strange coincidence. I'm getting some work done on my laptop, plugged and playing with the VE Odyssey HD and Remax RM-303 combo right now.



They have an Odyssey HD now? Mine is old and doesn't have HD on it. Is it different?


----------



## seanc6441

RobinFood said:


> They have an Odyssey HD now? Mine is old and doesn't have HD on it. Is it different?


Think it can stream at higher bit rate? Yes there was a second edition.


----------



## 40760

RobinFood said:


> They have an Odyssey HD now? Mine is old and doesn't have HD on it. Is it different?



I own both, but besides the HD being able to support higher bitrate files, I feel that they are pretty much the same sounding.


----------



## Timoteew (Aug 13, 2019)

I only discovered the world of high fidelity earbuds over the last few months, but I've written up some thoughts from my ventures into the rabbit hole if anyone's interested! https://www.modioaudio.co.uk/blog/an-ode-to-earbuds


----------



## KevDzn

A blast from the past!


----------



## irv003

KevDzn said:


> A blast from the past!


i think yinman 150 is still available to purchase, not really a past.


----------



## mbwilson111

Timoteew said:


> I only discovered the world of high fidelity earbuds over the last few months, but I've written up some thoughts from my ventures into the rabbit hole if anyone's interested! https://www.modioaudio.co.uk/blog/an-ode-to-earbuds



Very enjoyable to read while drinking my after-dinner cup of tea.  Thanks.


----------



## KevDzn

Was just going through some of my older earbuds and the Yinman was my one of my early purchases.
So yeah, a bit of 'memory lane' how my journey began.......


----------



## waynes world

Timoteew said:


> I only discovered the world of high fidelity earbuds over the last few months, but I've written up some thoughts from my ventures into the rabbit hole if anyone's interested! https://www.modioaudio.co.uk/blog/an-ode-to-earbuds



Yes, that was a nice read! I look forward to a longer dissertation once you have 20 or 30 earbuds in your stable lol


----------



## Timoteew

waynes world said:


> Yes, that was a nice read! I look forward to a longer dissertation once you have 20 or 30 earbuds in your stable lol


Cheers! That won't be far off at the current rate haha


----------



## irv003

listening to random buds from the collection, 
master wong's blur hybrid


----------



## Aevi

This might be a silly question, but does anyone have any recommendations for cheapish earbuds for gaming? Preferably with a mic.

I do like wearing earbuds from time to time, I've just been zombie ordering monk-pluses that have mics, splitting the channels and running through a mayflower arc.

I'm more a gamer than an audiophile, I'd appreciate good soundstage and imaging but it'd be more of an occasional use thing so I can compromise.


----------



## waynes world

Happy ears:


----------



## mochill

If anyone has a ve zen v1 they want to sell me , please pm me


----------



## irv003

some vintage buds,
sony mdr-w20 & koss tracker earphone


----------



## Clipping1KHz (Aug 17, 2019)

Is Vido the best buds at the moment or it has changed?


----------



## chinmie

Clipping1KHz said:


> Is Vido the best buds at the moment or it has changed?



i don't think the Vido has ever become the best buds, unless you specify it as best bass earbud under 5 usd


----------



## WoodyLuvr

chinmie said:


> i don't think the Vido has ever become the best buds, unless you specify it as best bass earbud under 5 usd


Concur, not only specify by "price bracket" but also by "music genre" listened to, as well as the "audio playback chain" utilized.


----------



## mbwilson111

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur, not only specify by "price bracket" but also by "music genre" listened to, as well as the "audio playback chain" utilized.



This is one example of why Headfi tells us we should fill our our profile information.  It helps us to help each other.


----------



## irv003

mbwilson111 said:


> This is one example of why Headfi tells us we should fill our our profile information.  It helps us to help each other.


plus some auditions during meet-ups, it helps alot which one is the best choice before buying


----------



## jant71

Anybody know more about the BGVP DX5 yet?? We know its $79-ish and DLC driver but more about the signature and stuff. Been looking for a good MMCX bud that is not MX shell and has a signature for outdoors and not trying to be audiophiles which outside is lean and cold and has too little bass esp with any wind or other noise.


----------



## rkw

jant71 said:


> Anybody know more about the BGVP DX5 yet?? We know its $79-ish and DLC driver but more about the signature and stuff.


Looks very interesting. It was recently announced and doesn't seem to be available yet.


----------



## Willber

Is this the one?:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-Quality-Clear-Sound-BGVP-DX3_60739310773.html


----------



## rkw

Willber said:


> Is this the one?:
> 
> https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-Quality-Clear-Sound-BGVP-DX3_60739310773.html


That's the older DX3. You can see that the DX5 has a different body with smooth contours.


----------



## Willber

Ah, my mistake.


----------



## phixion (Aug 17, 2019)

I don't understand the love for these old style buds, the ergonomics of them are so bad, they shoot music at your ear skin rather than in to the ear canal.

This is why if I need non-isolating buds I stick with the Apple EarPods. I recently tried Bose SoundSport but was not impressed with the fitment, I was hoping they would insert in to the ear canal more than they did, they feel more like they're hanging in your outer ear.

Are there any buds worth a go that have the more ergonomic form factor and point the sound in to your ear?

In my opinion, Apple got it right with the design at least. They are crazy comfortable and I can wear them all day without issue.


----------



## nick n

^
EARBUDS FIT PERFECTION


----------



## HungryPanda

I prefer earbuds to iem's, enjoy the sound more, iem's only for isolation on commutes


----------



## chinmie

phixion said:


> I don't understand the love for these old style buds, the ergonomics of them are so bad, they shoot music at your ear skin rather than in to the ear canal.



in all fairness, humans and other creatures with ear lobes actually use the whole ears (lobe skins included) to hear. add also the vibrations felt on the body. so arguably the most complete and natural listening experience would be (in descending order) from big speakers, full headphones, earclips, earbuds, and then IEMs

what IEMs excel compared to earbuds is definitely in isolation: it's the safer and logical choice to use if there's substantial outside noises present. but in a quiet room environment, earbuds is closer experience to headphones and speakers, and more natural sounding compared to IEMs. closed IEMs (no matter how expensive) would struggle to achieve that "headphone like experience", while the earbuds (even the cheap 5 usd ones) can achieve or get close to that easier..and all that because the fact that earbuds involve the use of the ear lobes (skin and all)


----------



## 40760

Somehow, earbuds just get me more excited than IEMs or headphones...

Had another listen to the E.K 1.0 this morning and they do bass in such a pleasant way that I ordered 2 more orange pairs.

Without hiccups, the Shozy B.K should also be delivered by tomorrow as they've reached the local post last Friday.

My earbuds cravings should be properly satiated for a while from now.


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> I prefer earbuds to iem's, enjoy the sound more, iem's only for isolation on commutes



... or, isolation from noisy neighbors ...


----------



## FastAndClean




----------



## phixion (Aug 18, 2019)

chinmie said:


> in all fairness, humans and other creatures with ear lobes actually use the whole ears (lobe skins included) to hear. add also the vibrations felt on the body. so arguably the most complete and natural listening experience would be (in descending order) from big speakers, full headphones, earclips, earbuds, and then IEMs
> 
> what IEMs excel compared to earbuds is definitely in isolation: it's the safer and logical choice to use if there's substantial outside noises present. but in a quiet room environment, earbuds is closer experience to headphones and speakers, and more natural sounding compared to IEMs. closed IEMs (no matter how expensive) would struggle to achieve that "headphone like experience", while the earbuds (even the cheap 5 usd ones) can achieve or get close to that easier..and all that because the fact that earbuds involve the use of the ear lobes (skin and all)



I can _sort of_ see where you're coming from, but that isn't what I've experienced in the past. I grew up using these type of buds in the 80's and they were nowhere near as good sound-wise just because of their design. Most of the sound hits your skin and never reaches the eardrum, even buds with the speaker to the edge aren't great because they still aren't projecting the sound as well as something like an EarPod design would.

I don't understand why more chi-fi companies are not jumping on Apple's design and making it better, ergonomic but with better sound... surely a win win for all? Not saying Apple EarPods sound are good or bad, I use them 99% of the time because I have to be on the listen in case my relative needs me or falls ill--Isolation is a luxury for me now and then when I know I can do it safely.


----------



## GREQ

phixion said:


> I don't understand the love for these old style buds, the ergonomics of them are so bad, they shoot music at your ear skin rather than in to the ear canal.
> 
> This is why if I need non-isolating buds I stick with the Apple EarPods. I recently tried Bose SoundSport but was not impressed with the fitment, I was hoping they would insert in to the ear canal more than they did, they feel more like they're hanging in your outer ear.
> 
> ...


I tried the Apple Airpods recently, and was very pleasantly surprised at how well they fit and that the sound was a notably better overall experience than most I've had with IEMs at any price point.
But immediately switching back to earbuds was still almost like going back to full-size open-back headphones in comparison.
There's something about sound hitting my fleshy lobes that just does it for me, and sounds so much 'bigger' better than IEMs and pod-style.

I think buds, pods and IEMs are far more polarizing than anything full-size or on-ear which have far less issues with fit (due to wildly varying human ear anatomy) affecting the tuning.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Aug 18, 2019)

phixion said:


> I can _sort of_ see where you're coming from, but that isn't what I've experienced in the past. I grew up using these type of buds in the 80's and they were nowhere near as good sound-wise just because of their design. Most of the sound hits your skin and never reaches the eardrum, even buds with the speaker to the edge aren't great because they still aren't projecting the sound as well as something like an EarPod design would.
> 
> I don't understand why more chi-fi companies are not jumping on Apple's design and making it better, ergonomic but with better sound... surely a win win for all? Not saying Apple EarPods sound are good or bad, I use them 99% of the time because I have to be on the listen in case my relative needs me or falls ill--Isolation is a luxury for me now and then when I know I can do it safely.


Its not a huge market out there for em. Audio Technica smashed it though IMO with the ATH-C200iS. Bass port actually works pretty good. 
Have every single pair of apple earbuds and pods that have ever been released and I think the ATH sound much better at $19 then the apples. Very loud and very forward with emphasis on treble, but sticking foams on them change things quite a bit.
 

Overall the bass port is a nice new design.


----------



## FastAndClean

any earbuds with DLC drivers?


----------



## jant71

FastAndClean said:


> any earbuds with DLC drivers?



We just mentioned a page back the upcoming DX5...


----------



## FastAndClean

jant71 said:


> We just mentioned a page back the upcoming DX5...


oh yea, but there was another one of the banned brand, i forgot the model


----------



## mbwilson111

FastAndClean said:


> oh yea, but there was another -  i forgot the model




https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2875#post-15029460


----------



## FastAndClean

mbwilson111 said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2875#post-15029460


thank you kind lady


----------



## rkw

FastAndClean said:


>


Which balanced cables are those?


----------



## FastAndClean

rkw said:


> Which balanced cables are those?


both are Nicehck cables, brown one is 16 core copper, white one is 8 core silver plated copper, thinner wire for the OURART earbuds because i wear them cable down


----------



## phixion

Can anyone recommend some good quality earbud covers to try on the Apple EarPods? UK based if that changes anything.


----------



## HungryPanda (Aug 18, 2019)

phixion said:


> Can anyone recommend some good quality earbud covers to try on the Apple EarPods? UK based if that changes anything.[/QUOTEhttps://lmgtfy.com/?q=amazon+damon+light+tips


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 18, 2019)

FastAndClean said:


>



That's a really good combo of buds.

Have you tried donut foams on the ACG? They seem more even clear/transparent to me with them.

I make my own offset hole ones, lines the sound output up with the ear canal.





BadReligionPunk said:


> Its not a huge market out there for em. Audio Technica smashed it though IMO with the ATH-C200iS. Bass port actually works pretty good.
> Have every single pair of apple earbuds and pods that have ever been released and I think the ATH sound much better at $19 then the apples. Very loud and very forward with emphasis on treble, but sticking foams on them change things quite a bit.
> 
> 
> Overall the bass port is a nice new design.



Cool. I wonder how similar the effect is compared to the offset donut foams I make.

I was looking at silicone covers that are similar in design but decided against them due to my small ears. I already find mx500 shells somewhat of a tight fit with foams.


----------



## courierdriver

irv003 said:


> some vintage buds,
> sony mdr-w20 & koss tracker earphone


OMG! I still have the Sony's somewhere. They were my favorite buds to listen to my Walkman cassette player when I was in my late teens. Loved that they had a headband. Gawd...the memories.


----------



## courierdriver

FastAndClean said:


>


Nice cables! Got the white one on my TFZ No.3 at the moment. But, I'm curious about putting the 16 core copper on the Smbat 10. Isn't that bud already kinda warm and recessed in the details? Why put an already warm cable on an already warm sounding bud? I would've thought the Smbat would have benefitted from a SPC or even pure silver cable, to bring out the upper mids and treble, and make the bass tighter. Sorry, I may be wrong; but from all I have read so far about the Smbat, I have concluded that this is a warm sounding bud. Maybe I misinterpreted some of the impressions previously posted.


----------



## rkw

phixion said:


> I can _sort of_ see where you're coming from, but that isn't what I've experienced in the past. I grew up using these type of buds in the 80's and they were nowhere near as good sound-wise just because of their design. Most of the sound hits your skin and never reaches the eardrum, even buds with the speaker to the edge aren't great because they still aren't projecting the sound as well as something like an EarPod design would.
> 
> I don't understand why more chi-fi companies are not jumping on Apple's design and making it better, ergonomic but with better sound... surely a win win for all? Not saying Apple EarPods sound are good or bad, I use them 99% of the time because I have to be on the listen in case my relative needs me or falls ill--Isolation is a luxury for me now and then when I know I can do it safely.


**** PT-25 has an EarPod style design. I have it and its sound quality is okay (mid-level for an earbud). There are many factors that contribute to sound quality, and IMO this aspect of the design has a relatively minor effect. 

Note that the driver in an EarPod doesn't actually point towards the eardrum. It's like a regular earbud but enclosed in a shell with a sideways nozzle.


----------



## flamesofarctica (Aug 18, 2019)

To me, returning to earbuds was a real eye opener as to the kind of soundstage.

Edit - apols if the above doesn't make sense. I hadn't finished typing. But it more or less expresses what I meant anyway


----------



## assassin10000

courierdriver said:


> Nice cables! Got the white one on my TFZ No.3 at the moment. But, I'm curious about putting the 16 core copper on the Smbat 10. Isn't that bud already kinda warm and recessed in the details? Why put an already warm cable on an already warm sounding bud? I would've thought the Smbat would have benefitted from a SPC or even pure silver cable, to bring out the upper mids and treble, and make the bass tighter. Sorry, I may be wrong; but from all I have read so far about the Smbat, I have concluded that this is a warm sounding bud. Maybe I misinterpreted some of the impressions previously posted.



ST-10 is more balanced/reference like with a boost to the sub-bass. Not warm/lacking detail but not cold/analytical either.


----------



## courierdriver (Aug 18, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> ST-10 is more balanced/reference like with a boost to the sub-bass. Not warm/lacking detail but not cold/analytical either.


Thanks for clearing that up for me. I'm still super curious about the the ST 10. Price is a bit high for my liking, but I might pull the plug on this set, if I end up liking the RY4S Plus, 32- ohm. Those should be here this week.


----------



## flamesofarctica (Aug 19, 2019)

Really enjoying the DIY SR2 TPE wire 16 ohms (some of these DIY earbuds really need some branding if only for reference here!). Playing them last night on my Cayin N5, with some classic 80s albums of all things (Nik Kershaw and Ultravox!) and vocals sound great but overall a really fun signature with more bass than I'd expected. On arrival they had a strange closed in sound, but that only lasted the first few plays and they seem to have really opened up.


----------



## 40760

Just received the Shozy B.K and I must say they are rightfully "TOTL" with such a smooth and natural (pleasant) tuning.

Not sure how I had not pulled the trigger after all these years, but boy am I glad this pair finally made its way into my hands.


----------



## Willber

flamesofarctica said:


> Really enjoying the DIY SR2 TPE wire 16 ohms (some of these DIY earbuds really need some branding if only for reference here!). Playing them last night on my Cayin N5, with some classic 80s albums of all things (Nik Kershaw and Ultravox!) and vocals sound great but overall a really fun signature with more bass than I'd expected. On arrival they had a strange closed in sound, but that only lasted the first few plays and they seem to have really opened up.


The seller recommends 100+ hours of burn-in and other owners (including me) have endorsed this. You might find they get even better.


----------



## 40760

Willber said:


> The seller recommends 100+ hours of burn-in and other owners (including me) have endorsed this. You might find they get even better.



Care to share the link with me to purchase?


----------



## Willber

palestofwhite said:


> Care to share the link with me to purchase?


I chose option 1:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32801265552.html


----------



## 40760

Willber said:


> I chose option 1:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32801265552.html



To be sure, 16ohm, red cable with straight plug?


----------



## Willber

palestofwhite said:


> To be sure, 16ohm, red cable with straight plug?


Yep. I messaged the seller for the best option for large soundstage and that is what he recommended. 
(I'm tempted to try the 150ohm option and would be interested in hearing any reviews of them.)


----------



## FastAndClean

courierdriver said:


> Nice cables! Got the white one on my TFZ No.3 at the moment. But, I'm curious about putting the 16 core copper on the Smbat 10. Isn't that bud already kinda warm and recessed in the details? Why put an already warm cable on an already warm sounding bud? I would've thought the Smbat would have benefitted from a SPC or even pure silver cable, to bring out the upper mids and treble, and make the bass tighter. Sorry, I may be wrong; but from all I have read so far about the Smbat, I have concluded that this is a warm sounding bud. Maybe I misinterpreted some of the impressions previously posted.


ST10 is not warm at all, it is very clean sounding with forward upper mids, copper is the right cable for them


----------



## KevDzn

My initial experience with the EB2 when I got it during the Nicehck Lucky Bag was not good. It sounded awful, very unbalance with muddy SQ. The slightest movement of the buds while listening changes the audio. Did some phase test and it was in phase. After burn-in it improved ever so slightly. Gave up and in the drawer it went. Did not want go through the hassle of returning it.

Decided to give it another go today and it’s still as I remembered it. So, I opened the drivers up to check and I noticed part of the tuning foam was out of place and covering the driver. Ratified it and voila the EB2 suddenly came alive. Could not put it down. I prefer it more to the ME80. Look like I’ll be getting the big brother EBX.


----------



## flamesofarctica

Willber said:


> Yep. I messaged the seller for the best option for large soundstage and that is what he recommended.
> (I'm tempted to try the 150ohm option and would be interested in hearing any reviews of them.)



It could well have been your recommendation I saw when I was working out which to get next. Anyway, I got from the other seller (Chitty's store) but it's identical model (they had the same red, I got the white but still 16 ohm SR2).

Anyway I might just have the 150 and 32 both on order  Just for science, you know.


----------



## Willber

flamesofarctica said:


> Anyway I might just have the 150 and 32 both on order  Just for science, you know.


That's the spirit! 
I look forward to your thoughts.


----------



## ProspektFi

Hi guys. Reading your praise about it, I've already ordered the Fengru Silver and I'm tempted by the DIY SR2 16 ohm. I own the NiceHCK DIY PK2 and I like it for realism of vocals (best of all my earbuds IMHO) and imaging, but I miss sub bass and a bit of highs. How different is the SR2 compared to the NiceHCK? Do you think it's worth having it or it sounds too similar?


----------



## flamesofarctica

ProspektFi said:


> Hi guys. Reading your praise about it, I've already ordered the Fengru Silver and I'm tempted by the DIY SR2 16 ohm. I own the NiceHCK DIY PK2 and I like it for realism of vocals (best of all my earbuds IMHO) and imaging, but I miss sub bass and a bit of highs. How different is the SR2 compared to the NiceHCK? Do you think it's worth having it or it sounds too similar?



I have the NickHCK DIY PK2 2017, I seem to remember I found them a bit bright, which I'm overly sensitive to, which is why I haven't spent much time with them. No possible hint of that with the DIY SR2's. Whether you like them or not, I don't think you'll find too much crossover between the two. What I'd say is, don't go off first impressions when you hear them, they're like putting on a pair of stiff boots it seems, you need to put a bit of time in.


----------



## jogawag (Aug 19, 2019)

ProspektFi said:


> Hi guys. Reading your praise about it, I've already ordered the Fengru Silver and I'm tempted by the DIY SR2 16 ohm. I own the NiceHCK DIY PK2 and I like it for realism of vocals (best of all my earbuds IMHO) and imaging, but I miss sub bass and a bit of highs. How different is the SR2 compared to the NiceHCK? Do you think it's worth having it or it sounds too similar?



If your NiceHCK DIY PK2 is version 1 or version 2 (it uses Docomo driver), I think you may not need to purchase DIY SR2 16 ohm.
If other version, purchase a DIY SR2 16 ohm and do a 100-hour Burn-in. You will be able to enjoy a wide sound stage and straightening Bass and Treble.


----------



## assassin10000

Speaking of PK2's, these came in the mail today:


----------



## Alexxci

Hey guys. Recently wanted to upgrade my Samsung S9+ AKG tuned IEM's. I got the EMX500 and it was okay but obviously nothing too impressive. I got the Willsound MK3 VJC after and am really liking them. The soundstage is wider than the AKGs, they sound brighter and warmer. I think they are a really good all day bud since they can play pretty much any style of music at full range.






I know that earbuds are inherently disadvantaged by form factor but I wonder if there is something I can get that might have some of the bass and impact of the AKGs. Song songs you can feel the bass vibrate inside you which is a lot of fun. Just something with a bit of a 'wow' factor would be nice and maybe some better instrument desperation and stronger/clearer vocals. 

I don't really know how to use audiophile language quite yet but if anyone gets what I mean I'd love some suggestions. Price wise I want to try some of the $100-250 for a possible TOTL


----------



## courierdriver

FastAndClean said:


> ST10 is not warm at all, it is very clean sounding with forward upper mids, copper is the right cable for them


Ok, cool! I might have mixed up the ST10 with other buds I've been reading about. There are so many earbuds talked about on this thread, that I'm finding myself getting overwhelmed. Got an RY4S PLUS coming, so I'm eager to try it out. I haven't used earbuds in at least 20 years, so I'm trying to catch up a bit. Recently started getting into iems in a big way though. When it comes to buds, I'm mostly interested in sets that have a removable cable, and allow for the cable to be worn over ear. I know the RY4S PLUS isn't over ear, but it does have a removable cable. If I like it enough, I might try the ST10.


----------



## 40760

assassin10000 said:


> Speaking of PK2's, these came in the mail today:



Initial impressions please? 

I'm also considering between this and the PK3 since they can be had for reasonable price theses days


----------



## assassin10000

palestofwhite said:


> Initial impressions please?
> 
> I'm also considering between this and the PK3 since they can be had for reasonable price theses days



I wasn't sure what to expect. Has more bass than I thought it would, with no bleed. Seems a bit forward and maybe a hair bright (for me). 

But I had been listening to my ACG's for a couple hours before trying them. 

Once I finish burning in the 2 pairs of MH755's that arrived this weekend, I'll burn these in and see how it sounds.


----------



## rkw

Alexxci said:


> I know that earbuds are inherently disadvantaged by form factor but I wonder if there is something I can get that might have some of the bass and impact of the AKGs.


Are you using them with foams (which are not shown in your photo). Foams create a better seal with the ear and boosts the bass. It still won't match the bass of an IEM, but it should help.


----------



## zazaboy

Which is the best mid centric earbud coming of iems need to know which earbuds sound best with instruments


----------



## Alexxci

I have tried both with and without foams. With foams I find the highs get muted a bit too much. I like that crispy clear sound. But either way the bass doesn't compare to the AKGs 



rkw said:


> Are you using them with foams (which are not shown in your photo). Foams create a better seal with the ear and boosts the bass. It still won't match the bass of an IEM, but it should help.


----------



## assassin10000

Alexxci said:


> I have tried both with and without foams. With foams I find the highs get muted a bit too much. I like that crispy clear sound. But either way the bass doesn't compare to the AKGs



Donut foams. Seals outside for bass but open in the middle for clarity.


----------



## subwoof3r

KevDzn said:


> My initial experience with the EB2 when I got it during the Nicehck Lucky Bag was not good. It sounded awful, very unbalance with muddy SQ. The slightest movement of the buds while listening changes the audio. Did some phase test and it was in phase. After burn-in it improved ever so slightly. Gave up and in the drawer it went. Did not want go through the hassle of returning it.
> 
> Decided to give it another go today and it’s still as I remembered it. So, I opened the drivers up to check and I noticed part of the tuning foam was out of place and covering the driver. Ratified it and voila the EB2 suddenly came alive. Could not put it down. I prefer it more to the ME80. Look like I’ll be getting the big brother EBX.


I remember my EB2 has the same issue, had to open it and replace correctly the tuning cottons inside the shells. But the drivers used are very average sound quality, if you replace them with better 14.8mm ones, they will sound much better.
I finally gave up and dismantled my EB2 just to keep the cable and metal shells that I did not used for any DIY project yet


----------



## FastAndClean

courierdriver said:


> Ok, cool! I might have mixed up the ST10 with other buds I've been reading about. There are so many earbuds talked about on this thread, that I'm finding myself getting overwhelmed. Got an RY4S PLUS coming, so I'm eager to try it out. I haven't used earbuds in at least 20 years, so I'm trying to catch up a bit. Recently started getting into iems in a big way though. When it comes to buds, I'm mostly interested in sets that have a removable cable, and allow for the cable to be worn over ear. I know the RY4S PLUS isn't over ear, but it does have a removable cable. If I like it enough, I might try the ST10.


The ry4s is a very good earbud, for the price it sound surprisingly clean and balanced.


----------



## KevDzn

subwoof3r said:


> I remember my EB2 has the same issue, had to open it and replace correctly the tuning cottons inside the shells. But the drivers used are very average sound quality, if you replace them with better 14.8mm ones, they will sound much better.
> I finally gave up and dismantled my EB2 just to keep the cable and metal shells that I did not used for any DIY project yet



Haha....the thought of salvaging the EB2 for parts did cross my mind many times. But after fixing it, its a keeper for me. I'm sucker for Mids. It's amazing for vocal and acoustic tracks.


----------



## 40760 (Aug 20, 2019)

KevDzn said:


> Haha....the thought of salvaging the EB2 for parts did cross my mind many times. But after fixing it, its a keeper for me. I'm sucker for Mids. It's amazing for vocal and acoustic tracks.



Does it take much to open up the EB2? Are they glued together?

EDIT: Seems like my pair are tightly glued together... I was curious to see what you guys are talking about and if I have the same issues.


----------



## KevDzn

palestofwhite said:


> Does it take much to open up the EB2? Are they glued together?


Yes, it's glued.
Just heat up the edges around the drivers cover to soften the glue with hairdryer or heatgun. Keep moving around the edges. Then slowly pry the edges of the drivers cover with a your fingernails or something similar. You will noticed it slowly coming off. Careful as not to tug too hard. The wires connecting to the drivers are quite short. The key here is patience.


----------



## 40760

KevDzn said:


> Yes, it's glued.
> Just heat up the edges around the drivers cover to soften the glue with hairdryer or heatgun. Keep moving around the edges. Then slowly pry the edges of the drivers cover with a your fingernails or something similar. You will noticed it slowly coming off. Careful as not to tug too hard. The wires connecting to the drivers are quite short. The key here is patience.



Will probably try that out tomorrow... They sound pretty decent with donut foams as of now...


----------



## darmanastartes

KevDzn said:


> My initial experience with the EB2 when I got it during the Nicehck Lucky Bag was not good. It sounded awful, very unbalance with muddy SQ. The slightest movement of the buds while listening changes the audio. Did some phase test and it was in phase. After burn-in it improved ever so slightly. Gave up and in the drawer it went. Did not want go through the hassle of returning it.
> 
> Decided to give it another go today and it’s still as I remembered it. So, I opened the drivers up to check and I noticed part of the tuning foam was out of place and covering the driver. Ratified it and voila the EB2 suddenly came alive. Could not put it down. I prefer it more to the ME80. Look like I’ll be getting the big brother EBX.


I didn't really care for the EB2 for the exact reasons you listed but now I wonder if the same thing might have been the case with my pair.


----------



## KevDzn

Well, might as well open up the EB2. Nothing to lose.


----------



## assassin10000

palestofwhite said:


> Initial impressions please?
> 
> I'm also considering between this and the PK3 since they can be had for reasonable price theses days





assassin10000 said:


> I wasn't sure what to expect. Has more bass than I thought it would, with no bleed. Seems a bit forward and maybe a hair bright (for me).
> 
> But I had been listening to my ACG's for a couple hours before trying them.
> 
> Once I finish burning in the 2 pairs of MH755's that arrived this weekend, I'll burn these in and see how it sounds.



Just to mention, these sound nothing like the Leagginal diy 16ohm pk shell earbuds (1 hole shell, no tuning foam on hole) that I had previously. I gave those away, as they didn't sound all that good to me and lacked extension on the highs and bass on the low end (I'm not a basshead either).


I have not tried the other DIY pk2 that many recommend. Anyone with these mind providing a picture of the driver?


----------



## Alexxci

assassin10000 said:


> Donut foams. Seals outside for bass but open in the middle for clarity.



Okay I'll get some and give it a shot, thank you. If it's still underwhelming though, is there anything I could get at higher range?


----------



## ounwx

assassin10000 said:


> Donut foams. Seals outside for bass but open in the middle for clarity.


This is a dumb question, but where does everyone recommend getting donuts from? I've ordered 10+ pairs of buds on AE, but all have come with only full foams. I also ordered a sub-$1 bag of spare foams that turned out to be incredibly low quality (consistently ripping when putting on), so I'd like to avoid repeating that.


----------



## assassin10000

Alexxci said:


> Okay I'll get some and give it a shot, thank you. If it's still underwhelming though, is there anything I could get at higher range?



Higher range? Do you mean other earbuds?

ST-10 is a good recommendation. If you weren't into bass so much, EBX is a good one.



ounwx said:


> This is a dumb question, but where does everyone recommend getting donuts from? I've ordered 10+ pairs of buds on AE, but all have come with only full foams. I also ordered a sub-$1 bag of spare foams that turned out to be incredibly low quality (consistently ripping when putting on), so I'd like to avoid repeating that.



Aliexpress. 

Same sellers found in the links here will have donut style as well:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2776#post-14912001


I use a punch to make my own custom ones from full foams.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2737#post-14866691


----------



## ProspektFi (Aug 20, 2019)

jogawag said:


> If your NiceHCK DIY PK2 is version 1 or version 2 (it uses Docomo driver), I think you may not need to purchase DIY SR2 16 ohm.
> If other version, purchase a DIY SR2 16 ohm and do a 100-hour Burn-in. You will be able to enjoy a wide sound stage and straightening Bass and Treble.



I have this one (bought in April 2017): https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-diy-pk2.22394/reviews

I don't know what version it is, but should have Docomo driver.


----------



## flamesofarctica

ProspektFi said:


> I have this one (bought in April 2017): https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-diy-pk2.22394/reviews
> 
> I don't know what version it is, but should have Docomo driver.



Same, also bought April 2017, but white. If I look at my order it's no longer for sale but takes me to same item. Pretty sure they sound different, will need to dig them out and head to head them.


----------



## Alexxci

assassin10000 said:


> Higher range? Do you mean other earbuds?
> 
> ST-10 is a good recommendation. If you weren't into bass so much, EBX is a good one.



Okay I ordered some donut foams. Any idea how the ST-10 compares to the Rose Masya or Shozy BK?


----------



## jogawag

ProspektFi said:


> I have this one (bought in April 2017): https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-diy-pk2.22394/reviews
> 
> I don't know what version it is, but should have Docomo driver.





flamesofarctica said:


> Same, also bought April 2017, but white. If I look at my order it's no longer for sale but takes me to same item. Pretty sure they sound different, will need to dig them out and head to head them.



If the cover of the NiceHCK DIY PK2 driver is *gray*, it is a Docomo driver.


----------



## ProspektFi

flamesofarctica said:


> Same, also bought April 2017, but white. If I look at my order it's no longer for sale but takes me to same item. Pretty sure they sound different, will need to dig them out and head to head them.



A direct comparison would be great! 



jogawag said:


> If the cover of the NiceHCK DIY PK2 driver is *gray*, it is a Docomo driver.



Mine is exactly the same as the one reviewed by BloodyPenguin. White with grey cover.


----------



## flamesofarctica

ProspektFi said:


> A direct comparison would be great!
> 
> 
> 
> Mine is exactly the same as the one reviewed by BloodyPenguin. White with grey cover.



Same, as per that review as well. White, with darkish grey cover. White-silvery cable (with slight flashes of green just starting to appear). They sound better than I remember I'll be keeping them out.

 But to me as I thought they sound brighter when comparing the same song. The DIY SR2's sound slightly more veiled, but really nice. Could they have the same driver but other factors coming into play (eg the foam inside, or the cable)?


----------



## irv003

ProspektFi said:


> A direct comparison would be great!
> 
> 
> 
> Mine is exactly the same as the one reviewed by BloodyPenguin. White with grey cover.


hows the SQ of that grey cover? warmish with emphasize mids?


----------



## ProspektFi

irv003 said:


> hows the SQ of that grey cover? warmish with emphasize mids?



Sorry but I'm not good at describing sound, so I prefer not to risk saying misleading things.


----------



## jogawag

flamesofarctica said:


> Same, as per that review as well. White, with darkish grey cover. White-silvery cable (with slight flashes of green just starting to appear). They sound better than I remember I'll be keeping them out.
> 
> But to me as I thought they sound brighter when comparing the same song. The DIY SR2's sound slightly more veiled, but really nice. Could they have the same driver but other factors coming into play (eg the foam inside, or the cable)?



NiceHCK DIY PK2 with gray cover driver and with white cable is "Version 2". The cable of this earbuds is silver plated, so this earbuds sound brighter.
The driver of DIY SR2 earbuds is different from Docomo driver, and The name of the driver of DIY SR2 earbuds is SR2.


----------



## flamesofarctica

This might be a silly question but I'm starting to lose track of some of my earbuds, especially those without a distinctive  cable or branding which separates them, as to which they are. Do people here label their buds, or is that too OCD?


----------



## HungryPanda

I have all my earbuds in little cases with a label on each one, otherwise I would go mad


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## groucho69

HungryPanda said:


>



I prefer to use the grab bag method...yes I am mad!


----------



## abhijollyguy

Need some suggestions regarding earbuds under and between $10-$50.

Sound Signature preference:

1. Balanced sound.
2. Balanced sound with slightly boosted mid-bass (not bass-head territory at all) and without any lower/upper treble peak.


----------



## HungryPanda

This is a really good earbud:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32801646835.html?

I got the second one 16 ohm


----------



## NStef

I hope you all are tolerant of a dumb question or two.  Do you use these earbuds to listen to your CDs and LPs or are these products basically just for portable use? 

I am trying to plan for the day when I don't have room for my stereo speakers.   I've never been able to listen to headphone for long periods (fatigue?) but I don't have a problem listening to the cheapo earbuds that came with my MP3 player.  Fidelity of coarse is another problem.   Is finding a set of earbuds to replace speakers in my stereo expecting too much?  I will be 70 my next birthday, so my hearing is probably not what it used to be but I at least like to pretend.

Thanks and again I hope you don't mind the questions.


----------



## noknok23

Is there such a thing as harman tuned earbuds?


----------



## mbwilson111

NStef said:


> I hope you all are tolerant of a dumb question or two.  Do you use these earbuds to listen to your CDs and LPs or are these products basically just for portable use?
> 
> I am trying to plan for the day when I don't have room for my stereo speakers.   I've never been able to listen to headphone for long periods (fatigue?) but I don't have a problem listening to the cheapo earbuds that came with my MP3 player.  Fidelity of coarse is another problem.   Is finding a set of earbuds to replace speakers in my stereo expecting too much?  I will be 70 my next birthday, so my hearing is probably not what it used to be but I at least like to pretend.
> 
> Thanks and again I hope you don't mind the questions.



I use my buds at home with various sources.  My newly acquired Rose Masya very much reminds me of a good full sized open headphone.. Fit is very important though.  Some people cannot wear them.

I actually can enjoy music for hours on end with most of the buds in my list... some costing less than $10.

Having said that, I do have to confess that I will forever miss the stereo system that I left behind in Michigan. Those old Advent Heritage floor standing speakers were a treasure.  People still refurbish them.


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> I have all my earbuds in little cases with a label on each one, otherwise I would go mad



To late for me!



HungryPanda said:


> This is a really good earbud:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32801646835.html?
> 
> I got the second one 16 ohm



You have proven that you're not mad... that's a good recommendation!


----------



## groucho69 (Aug 21, 2019)




----------



## theresanarc

HungryPanda said:


> This is a really good earbud:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32801646835.html?
> 
> I got the second one 16 ohm



I have these too. The whole 'burn-in' thing actually did work for me with them (I didn't do some sort of formal 400 hour burn-in or whatever, I just found them to get better after like a few weeks or a month or so). They're so much better than my Yuin PK3s that were like $30+ years ago and about half the price.


----------



## subwoof3r

Anyone has more infos about this new "Blootooth" technology? looks very promising!!


----------



## harpuajim

theresanarc said:


> I have these too. The whole 'burn-in' thing actually did work for me with them (I didn't do some sort of formal 400 hour burn-in or whatever, I just found them to get better after like a few weeks or a month or so). They're so much better than my Yuin PK3s that were like $30+ years ago and about half the price.



I am looking for a new pair of earbuds without a mic and these look like a good option.  Is the burn in method a common thing with earbuds?  Is it as simple as just playing music while you're not using them?

Also if anyone has a personal recommendation for a really good sounding set of earbuds for less than $50 and no mic/volume control I'm all ears.  My only other requirement is that the area where the headphones split off into a "Y" is not bulky.  I need to fit it into a tight space for a project.


----------



## mbwilson111

harpuajim said:


> Is it as simple as just playing music while you're not using them?



That is what I do....either using my desktop system or a DAP with good  battery life.


----------



## rulokat

Hi, I have been looking for some below 25$ earbuds. Had been using the MX760 Graphene and loving it. Unfortunately i ruined its drivers.
Waiting for your suggestions from Aliexpress, thanks!


----------



## HungryPanda

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32687542028.html


----------



## rulokat

HungryPanda said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32687542028.html



Thank you, they look good. But i can go up to 25$. What do you think about PK2s?


----------



## robar

Hi, could anyone compare the SR2 16ohms and DIY PK2/Docomo from Chitty store? (PK2: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32237685233.html )
By the way, there is a new listing at Chitty, featuring good old MX760 shells: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32359682471.html
Info about it is basically nonexistent, unfortunately I can't read chinese  I'm waiting for another diy mx760 set at the moment, but it would be great to know something about this one, too.


----------



## HungryPanda

I prefer the SR2 to the Docomo, I like them both but if I had to choose......


----------



## robar

HungryPanda said:


> I prefer the SR2 to the Docomo, I like them both but if I had to choose......


Thanks, SR2 then  Is there any comfy small shell earbud under 30usd that can be considered a worthwhile upgrade from SR2? Something shaped like He 150Pro, **** BK2 etc. I prefer natural mids with bit warmth, good low bass and slightly rolled off highs.


----------



## NStef

mbwilson111 said:


> I use my buds at home with various sources.  My newly acquired Rose Masya very much reminds me of a good full sized open headphone.. Fit is very important though.  Some people cannot wear them.
> 
> I actually can enjoy music for hours on end with most of the buds in my list... some costing less than $10.
> 
> Having said that, I do have to confess that I will forever miss the stereo system that I left behind in Michigan. Those old Advent Heritage floor standing speakers were a treasure.  People still refurbish them.



Thank you for the reply.  I took a look at you my gear page and you have quite a collection.


----------



## waynes world

NStef said:


> Thank you for the reply.  I took a look at you my gear page *and you have quite a collection*.


----------



## HungryPanda

I prefer SR2 over the BK2. I really like the Toneking earbuds


----------



## robar

HungryPanda said:


> I prefer SR2 over the BK2. I really like the Toneking earbuds


Thanks! Chances are high that I'll order SR2 when the sale begins. With coupons and stuff it should be around 12usd


----------



## HungryPanda

Worth every penny


----------



## phixion (Aug 22, 2019)

I've been lurking this thread for a while and saw the great reviews of the VE Monk's when they were released, so I've ordered a bunch of recommended budget earbuds from Ali Express, if it doesn't work out I'm only out of £30.

Still not convinced I will get on with the form factor but we shall see, my curiosity has gotten the better of me.

RY4S MMCX
RY4S
Qian39
EDIFIER H180
NICEHCK Vido
Some foams and a cheapo MMCX cable for the RY4S.


----------



## ounwx

phixion said:


> I've been lurking this thread for a while and saw the great reviews of the VE Monk's when they were released, so I've ordered a bunch of recommended budget earbuds from Ali Express, if it doesn't work out I'm only out of £30.
> 
> Still not convinced I will get on with the form factor but we shall see, my curiosity has gotten the better of me.
> 
> ...


I'll be curious to hear your impressions of the difference between the RY4S variants.

I got the standard ($3) pair and found them a little underwhelming. I'm skeptical that the MMCX/Plus version would be drastically different, but might bite on a pair if someone doing a side-by-side comparison feels strongly that they are.


----------



## robar (Aug 22, 2019)

ounwx said:


> I'll be curious to hear your impressions of the difference between the RY4S variants.
> 
> I got the standard ($3) pair and found them a little underwhelming. I'm skeptical that the MMCX/Plus version would be drastically different, but might bite on a pair if someone doing a side-by-side comparison feels strongly that they are.


Did you buy the transparent RY4S? I've heard that it sounds worse than the standard solid color one. But I only have the UE version personally, and I can attest that it is pretty good. I'm waiting for a Fengru Silver though,  as I prefer smoother, more laid back signature.


----------



## ounwx

robar said:


> Did you buy the transparent RY4S? I've heard that it sounds worse than the standard solid color one. But I only have the UE version personally, and I can attest that it is pretty good. I'm waiting for a Fengru Silver though,  as I prefer smoother, more laid back signature.


Yeah, white cable but transparent shells... good to know. It's decent, but conspicuously lacking in bass (even just compared to most of the other popular buds I ordered from AE) and kind of thin sounding overall. If the UE or Plus versions have a truly noticeable boost in bass quantity that doesn't take quibbling to tell the difference, I'd probably be interested.


----------



## robar (Aug 22, 2019)

ounwx said:


> Yeah, white cable but transparent shells... good to know. It's decent, but conspicuously lacking in bass (even just compared to most of the other popular buds I ordered from AE) and kind of thin sounding overall. If the UE or Plus versions have a truly noticeable boost in bass quantity that doesn't take quibbling to tell the difference, I'd probably be interested.


RY4S is generally regarded as bassy and a friend of mine who orders regularly from RY store and is a fan of basic RY4S told me that the 3usd transparent one doesn't worth it. Anyway, my UE version is quite flat overall compared to my other buds with good extension both ways, deep clean tight nice quality bass (but modest in quantity) and bright mids/highs. I'm not a big fan of the brightness (works better for me with smooth or darker source) but it's very good at what it is. Mids/highs need slight toning down to sound natural in my opinion. The signature is a bit like my Takstar Pro 80 headphones, just a tad brighter, more balanced. When I get Fengru Silver I'll compare them of course.


----------



## assassin10000

robar said:


> Did you buy the transparent RY4S? I've heard that it sounds worse than the standard solid color one. But I only have the UE version personally, and I can attest that it is pretty good. I'm waiting for a Fengru Silver though,  as I prefer smoother, more laid back signature.





ounwx said:


> Yeah, white cable but transparent shells... good to know. It's decent, but conspicuously lacking in bass (even just compared to most of the other popular buds I ordered from AE) and kind of thin sounding overall. If the UE or Plus versions have a truly noticeable boost in bass quantity that doesn't take quibbling to tell the difference, I'd probably be interested.





robar said:


> RY4S is generally regarded as bassy and a friend of mine who orders regularly from RY store and is a fan of basic RY4S told me that the 3usd transparent one doesn't worth it. Anyway, my UE version is quite flat overall compared to my other buds with good extension both ways, deep clean tight nice quality bass (but modest in quantity) and bright mids/highs. I'm not a big fan of the brightness (works better for me with smooth or darker source) but it's very good at what it is. Mids/highs need slight toning down to sound natural in my opinion. The signature is a bit like my Takstar Pro 80 headphones, just a tad brighter, more balanced. When I get Fengru Silver I'll compare them of course.



My clear with white cable ry4s were ok sounding, better when compared to the vido's and diy 16ohm single vent leagginal's I had. 

The single vent ones just didn't sound all that good. Could be lack of dampening material on the vents. Or the drivers. Didn't try to make them sound good, so not 100% sure.


----------



## courierdriver

HungryPanda said:


> I have all my earbuds in little cases with a label on each one, otherwise I would go mad


I do that too to protect my buds and iems, but I really need to get on labeling them. Right now, it's kinda a crapshoot every day, as to what I listen to...whatever I grab first, that's what I listen to. Only exception is my KPE...cause it's got it's own special case.


----------



## abhijollyguy

Need some suggestions regarding earbuds with *yuin shells* under and between $10-$50.

Sound Signature preference:

1. Balanced sound.
2. Balanced sound with slightly boosted mid-bass (not bass-head territory at all), without compromising the mids and without any lower/upper treble peak.

Anyone?

Where are the earbuds aficionados?


----------



## courierdriver

mbwilson111 said:


> I use my buds at home with various sources.  My newly acquired Rose Masya very much reminds me of a good full sized open headphone.. Fit is very important though.  Some people cannot wear them.
> 
> I actually can enjoy music for hours on end with most of the buds in my list... some costing less than $10.
> 
> Having said that, I do have to confess that I will forever miss the stereo system that I left behind in Michigan. Those old Advent Heritage floor standing speakers were a treasure.  People still refurbish them.


I echo your sentiments about home hifi speakers. I miss my Totem Model 1's also. But I DON'T miss all the trouble (and expense) it used to take to set them up correctly and to have them sound good whenever I moved into a new place. Room acoustics and room treatments to accommodate them were a frustrating, cumbersome and expensive pain in the butt! I'm so much happier to have found headphones, iems, and earbuds; to satisfy my desire for good sound. The cost of swapping tips, earpads or cables is minuscule compared to buying new rugs, drapes, speaker stands, acoustic panels, etc, etc...just to maintain the SQ of my home audio system. For the amount of $ I spend just to modify the listening space in my dwellings over the years I owned one, I could now own a bunch of TOTL iems, earbuds, daps, hundreds of tips and cables. I'm happy with how far personal audio has come...and I personally don't care to own a home system anymore.


----------



## robar

abhijollyguy said:


> Need some suggestions regarding earbuds with *yuin shells* under and between $10-$50.
> 
> Sound Signature preference:
> 
> ...



if you mean PK shells then everybody recommends SR2 16ohms version here. You can find it in Chitty store on Aliexpress. I'll order one when the sale begins.


----------



## abhijollyguy

robar said:


> if you mean PK shells then everybody recommends SR2 16ohms version here. You can find it in Chitty store on Aliexpress. I'll order one when the sale begins.


So that is the best one?
What is its sound signature?


----------



## mbwilson111

courierdriver said:


> I echo your sentiments about home hifi speakers. I miss my Totem Model 1's also. But I DON'T miss all the trouble (and expense) it used to take to set them up correctly and to have them sound good whenever I moved into a new place. Room acoustics and room treatments to accommodate them were a frustrating, cumbersome and expensive pain in the butt! I'm so much happier to have found headphones, iems, and earbuds; to satisfy my desire for good sound. The cost of swapping tips, earpads or cables is minuscule compared to buying new rugs, drapes, speaker stands, acoustic panels, etc, etc...just to maintain the SQ of my home audio system. For the amount of $ I spend just to modify the listening space in my dwellings over the years I owned one, I could now own a bunch of TOTL iems, earbuds, daps, hundreds of tips and cables. I'm happy with how far personal audio has come...and I personally don't care to own a home system anymore.



I had a second set of speakers in the kitchen so the house was filled with music.  I did not change my rugs or get acoustic panels.  I had a normal family living room that just happened to have a nice enough set up for me.  It was all about discovering new music then... not nitpicking about gear or impulse buying too  much stuff.

I had a separate 5.1 system in the tv room.   We do have a nice 5.1 system in the living room here but we mainly use it for movies and tv shows.   ... and youtube videos... lol.  We often discover new music when we hear them on tv or in a movie.


----------



## abhijollyguy

Can anyone list the earbuds with Yuin shells with the balanced with slight lift in mid-bass and non-fatiguing treble?


----------



## harpuajim

I ordered PK2 32ohms for my VR headset (Rift S) from this listing:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32801646835.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2e444c4dY3B7NP

I got the ones with the curved plug.  2 questions:  

1.  Should I have grabbed the 16ohm version instead of the 32?  I got 32 because my ATH AD700's are 32 but I feel like I would have been fine with 16.

2.  Is the seller reliable/are these knockoffs or fakes?

Thanks


----------



## mbwilson111

harpuajim said:


> I ordered PK2 32ohms for my VR headset (Rift S) from this listing:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32801646835.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2e444c4dY3B7NP
> 
> ...



There are three different drivers used in that listing.  The one you got is the PK2 driver.  The 16 ohm one is the SR2 driver.  The 150 ohm is something else.   All will sound different and to be honest, I think all will sound good.   We have the ones with the SR2 drivers and love them.. but they do need a lot of burn in.

That is a good store... it is where my husband @HungryPanda buys a lot of his supplies for making his own buds (which are excellent... but just a hobby for us... not for sale).    He has made buds for us using the 32 ohm PK drivers from that store and they are excellent.   He has also used the 150ohm drivers and those buds turned out well also.

I think you will be happy,.... but I foresee others in your future as well

Not a knock off or fake.  DIY means that he made them himself.. or had someone do it.  It is his creation... so not meant to be a fake of anything.  He uses good drivers and tunes them to sound good to him... and hopefully to his customers.


----------



## harpuajim

mbwilson111 said:


> There are three different drivers used in that listing.  The one you got is the PK2 driver.  The 16 ohm one is the SR2 driver.  The 150 ohm is something else.   All will sound different and to be honest, I think all will sound good.   We have the ones with the SR2 drivers and love them.. but they do need a lot of burn in.
> 
> That is a good store... it is where my husband @HungryPanda buys a lot of his supplies for making his own buds (which are excellent... but just a hobby for us... not for sale).    He has made buds for us using the 32 ohm PK drivers from that store and they are excellent.   He has also used the 150ohm drivers and those buds turned out well also.
> 
> ...



Thanks a lot for the reply!  Glad to hear I am getting the real thing.  My main concern now is that the VR headset I am plugging it into doesn't have the power to drive 32ohm headphones properly.  I'm not too familiar with this topic so for all I know things will be fine.  Any ideas?


----------



## mbwilson111

harpuajim said:


> Thanks a lot for the reply!  Glad to hear I am getting the real thing.  My main concern now is that the VR headset I am plugging it into doesn't have the power to drive 32ohm headphones properly.  I'm not too familiar with this topic so for all I know things will be fine.  Any ideas?



I personally  know nothing about that.  I just listen to music using my desktop system or a DAp.


----------



## waynes world

courierdriver said:


> I echo your sentiments about home hifi speakers. I miss my Totem Model 1's also. But I DON'T miss all the trouble (and expense) it used to take to set them up correctly and to have them sound good whenever I moved into a new place. Room acoustics and room treatments to accommodate them were a frustrating, cumbersome and expensive pain in the butt! I'm so much happier to have found headphones, iems, and earbuds; to satisfy my desire for good sound. The cost of swapping tips, earpads or cables is minuscule compared to buying new rugs, drapes, speaker stands, acoustic panels, etc, etc...just to maintain the SQ of my home audio system. For the amount of $ I spend just to modify the listening space in my dwellings over the years I owned one, I could now own a bunch of TOTL iems, earbuds, daps, hundreds of tips and cables. I'm happy with how far personal audio has come...and I personally don't care to own a home system anymore.



Wow, you were hardcore! I can see how that would have been frustrating.


----------



## assassin10000

mbwilson111 said:


> There are three different drivers used in that listing.  The one you got is the PK2 driver.  The 16 ohm one is the SR2 driver.  The 150 ohm is something else.   All will sound different and to be honest, I think all will sound good.   We have the ones with the SR2 drivers and love them.. but they do need a lot of burn in.
> 
> That is a good store... it is where my husband @HungryPanda buys a lot of his supplies for making his own buds (which are excellent... but just a hobby for us... not for sale).    He has made buds for us using the 32 ohm PK drivers from that store and they are excellent.   He has also used the 150ohm drivers and those buds turned out well also.
> 
> ...



I just got a Yuin PK2. It is a 16ohm driver, confirmed with my multimeter.

The Yuin listings on penon are this:
PK1 = 150ohm
PK2 = 16ohm
PK3 = 32ohm


----------



## jogawag

abhijollyguy said:


> Can anyone list the earbuds with Yuin shells with the balanced with slight lift in mid-bass and non-fatiguing treble?



Simphonio Dragon 2plus
Shozy BK
Shozy Cygnus


----------



## abhijollyguy

jogawag said:


> Simphonio Dragon 2plus
> Shozy BK
> Shozy Cygnus


Unfortunately, these does not come under the budget of $50.


----------



## courierdriver

mbwilson111 said:


> I had a second set of speakers in the kitchen so the house was filled with music.  I did not change my rugs or get acoustic panels.  I had a normal family living room that just happened to have a nice enough set up for me.  It was all about discovering new music then... not nitpicking about gear or impulse buying too  much stuff.
> 
> I had a separate 5.1 system in the tv room.   We do have a nice 5.1 system in the living room here but we mainly use it for movies and tv shows.   ... and youtube videos... lol.  We often discover new music when we hear them on tv or in a movie.


You are lucky, then. My Audiophilia and OCD with regards to it, got to me, with the more knowledge I gained over my 40 year audio journey. I'm happy to have ditched that a bit. With headphones or iems, the room gets taken out of the equation; which for me, results in more simplicity. I did discover something today, though. I just received and had a chance tonight to listen to my new RY4S MMCX PLUS 32 OHM earbuds. They sound potential is great with them, but I can't get them to stop falling out of my ears with the supplied foam covers. I burned them in for about 3.5 hours with music, and tried to listen to them for about an hour afterwards, but I don't like that they don't seal as well as my iems. Took them out, and swapped in my NX7's. Now...I'm having fun!


----------



## courierdriver

waynes world said:


> Wow, you were hardcore! I can see how that would have been frustrating.


 I started my audio journey when I was 12 years old. I was always into music, but I wanted something more than the old console furniture stereos that my grandparents and mom thought were the crap, back then. At the age of 11, a buddy showed me a system at a hifi store that his dad was buying him for a graduation gift. Old japfi system from Kenwood, I think. Turntable, integrated amp, cassette deck/recorder, tuner and speakers. I was blown away and knew I wanted something like this...but being the child of a single mother, I could never have asked for such an expensive gift. As my 12th birthday approached, my mom asked me what I wanted for my birthday...I told her I wanted a job. Just after, I landed a paper route with a major Canadian daily publication. Within 6 months, I had secured 5 routes (all highrise apartments) and 2 years later, at age 14, I bought an all JVC hifi system for $850 (plus a cabinet and delivery charge)...cash. Pretty impressive feat, for a 14 year old kid in the 80's. Three weeks later, the upgrade bug bit me, and I traded in my JVC turntable for a Dual CS608 direct drive table, with an Ortofon cartridge. A month later, I bought a better tuner. After that, I traded up the amp for a Harman Kardon high current integrated amp (PM340). My biggest regret was selling that thing. I even paid to have it's speaker binding posts upgraded to 5 way, which accepted banana plugs, or even spades. A month after, I bought a Nakamichi BX150 cassette deck, so I could record my albums to use on my Sony Walkman portable player. It only went uphill for my after that. By the time I ended up selling off all my gear on Ebay in 2005, I had a system that was $10,000 CDN...and it sounded like crap in my 1 bedroom apartment after I separated from my wife. I ended up taking a loss (only got about $3600 total, for everything) but that's when I began delving into personal audio. I just began to get back into the hobby in the past year or so, but it's shocking how good even less expensive stuff sounds these days.


----------



## scottySK

Can anyone recommend some good earphones with mmcx connectors? Looking for a balanced sound, I prefer vocals over bass heavy tuning. Budget around $20usd or under would be nice but happy to hear all suggestions. I've never had a set of earbuds before other than the old 2007 iPod ones back in the day..

Thanks so much!


----------



## HungryPanda (Aug 24, 2019)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html? get the plus version


----------



## scottySK

HungryPanda said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html? get the plus version


Thanks for your recommendation! How does the plus differ from the non plus?


----------



## HungryPanda

Seems to have an improved driver. I have both and does sound better


----------



## courierdriver

HungryPanda said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html? get the plus version


I bought the Plus version. Any recs on some big foam covers that will help keep them in my ears? I'm certain that they can live up to their sound potential, but I can't get them to stay seated in my ears. Same problem I've had with buds for the past 30+years. It's why I tend to like iems more. I can't do hang down buds like this, without them coming out. Iems with an over ear cable and foam tips, work much better for me.


----------



## HungryPanda

With heavy mmcx connectors on earbuds I use a shirt clip to keep weight off, also can use silicone fins to make a tighter fit.


----------



## mbwilson111

courierdriver said:


> I bought the Plus version. Any recs on some big foam covers that will help keep them in my ears? I'm certain that they can live up to their sound potential, but I can't get them to stay seated in my ears. Same problem I've had with buds for the past 30+years. It's why I tend to like iems more. I can't do hang down buds like this, without them coming out. Iems with an over ear cable and foam tips, work much better for me.



The Smabat ST-10 is worn over ear.  It will not fall out.  Sound is excellent.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

courierdriver said:


> I bought the Plus version. Any recs on some big foam covers that will help keep them in my ears? I'm certain that they can live up to their sound potential, but I can't get them to stay seated in my ears. Same problem I've had with buds for the past 30+years. It's why I tend to like iems more. I can't do hang down buds like this, without them coming out. Iems with an over ear cable and foam tips, work much better for me.


Not foam covers but will keep em in your ear. I used to use these to jog in. 

 

Also for thick foams, I like Heigi foams. Very thick. about $5-6 a pack on amazon.


----------



## assassin10000

courierdriver said:


> I bought the Plus version. Any recs on some big foam covers that will help keep them in my ears? I'm certain that they can live up to their sound potential, but I can't get them to stay seated in my ears. Same problem I've had with buds for the past 30+years. It's why I tend to like iems more. I can't do hang down buds like this, without them coming out. Iems with an over ear cable and foam tips, work much better for me.




You can also double foam. Use a stretched/used foam cover over a new one.

If you search I posted a link to the silicone ring with a hook.


----------



## courierdriver

mbwilson111 said:


> The Smabat ST-10 is worn over ear.  It will not fall out.  Sound is excellent.


I had these in my Aliexpress cart for  about a month, based on a previous recommendation from you, but removed them after I read several posts about QC issues that other headfiers were experiencing and due to the fact that the price seemed a bit steep to me ($113 CDN). I may try to get them at some point, but I honestly have enough gear to keep me happy for quite some time. Only thing I'm really looking for right now is a balanced DAP that sounds really good for less than $300 CDN.


----------



## courierdriver

BadReligionPunk said:


> Not foam covers but will keep em in your ear. I used to use these to jog in.
> 
> 
> Also for thick foams, I like Heigi foams. Very thick. about $5-6 a pack on amazon.


Those earwings look kinda uncomfortable though. Are they? I'll look up the Heigi foams tho. At this point, I've received so many suggestions about different foam covers that I could see me spending another $30-40 just on extra foams and donuts...for an $11 earbud and an $9 mmcx cable. I might just put these away and gift them to someone who already wears buds and is looking for a better sound. I don't know what I was thinking when I bought these. I mean, buds didn't work for me in my 20's (unless they had a headband like my old Sony's did in the 80's), so I'm not even sure why I bought the RY4S. My ears haven't changed in size much, so I really don't know what made me think that buds would work for me now. Iems on the other hand, have become more ear fitting (without having to get custom molds done), and are working much better for me.


----------



## assassin10000

palestofwhite said:


> Initial impressions please?
> 
> I'm also considering between this and the PK3 since they can be had for reasonable price theses days





assassin10000 said:


> I wasn't sure what to expect. Has more bass than I thought it would, with no bleed. Seems a bit forward and maybe a hair bright (for me).
> 
> But I had been listening to my ACG's for a couple hours before trying them.
> 
> Once I finish burning in the 2 pairs of MH755's that arrived this weekend, I'll burn these in and see how it sounds.



So after about 75ish hours of burn in and fresh ears I've had another listen. The slight brightness or harshness has disappeared.

After listening to some tracks I'm familiar with (and also to a frequency sweep test to confirm) it lacks a little extension on both ends IMO. 

The bass is more mid bass focused and lacks sub-bass extension/impact. Fortunately the bass doesn't bleed into the mids.  

The treble rolls off a bit early around 13k, granted I can only hear to 15-16k iirc.

The signature overall is balanced, if leaning towards a bit mid focused, given the lack of extension. Good for vocals, acoustic, classic rock. Not as good for bass heavy genre's like EDM, rap, etc.


Still, it is a good sounding earbud. Much better than my initial foray into yuin/pk shell earbuds.


----------



## waynes world (Aug 25, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> Only thing I'm really looking for right now is a balanced DAP that sounds really good for less than $300 CDN.



Have you considered the Radsone ES100? (assuming you have an android phone so that you can use LDAC)


----------



## Mhog55

Hey there Head Fi members. I'm hoping to get some recommendations. Currently, I am using the Ty Hi-z 150s. My sources are an LG V40, and an Opus#1s. I'm looking for a definite upgrade. 80 bucks sounds about in my wheelhouse, but I'm willing to stretch for the right buds. 
Things I don't like about the Ty Hi-z - Muddy and congested would be my main complaint. Mids are a bit too scooped as well. I listen to hard rock, dating between the early 70s to the early 90s. I like my guitars, drums and vocals. Not sure if this will help, but I have gone through several full sized cans, and these are the four that I won't part ways with.
Meze 99 Classics with original pads 
Sennheiser 58X 
Audio Technica Ath-Msr7b 
Audioquest Nightowl 
If I could obtain even 2/3 of what these cans offer, I'd be happy. I use earbuds to run with primarily. I don't like sweating that much on my earpads.
I'm after something that will provide engagement and emotion, without being harsh or overly aggressive. Good separation and clarity. They don't have to be detail retrieval monsters, but I don't want to miss out on a whole lot. I don't want something boomy, but tight, controlled, and present. I prefer my low end a bit North of neutral. Nothing splashy up top, but decent extension with a little bit of sparkle. Mids are most important. They don't have to be super forward, but they can't be recessed. 
Lastly, I would need to be able to use the wing things with them, and I'd prefer them to not be too difficult to source. I've been skimming through the thread, but there's just too much to read. Any suggestions would be most appreciated


----------



## HungryPanda

Smabat ST-10 would be a good earbud to get


----------



## Mhog55

HungryPanda said:


> Smabat ST-10 would be a good earbud to get


Those look really nice. I shall do some investigating. Do you know if there is a balanced 2.5mm trrs cable available for these?


----------



## HungryPanda

as they have mmcx connectors changing cable is an easy task


----------



## Mhog55

HungryPanda said:


> as they have mmcx connectors changing cable is an easy task


Cool. Can you give me a brief description of the sound signature?


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm listening to Tool's new Album with the Smabat's right now and Bass is impactful but not overcooked, nice and tight. Mids are really good, guitars are sounding great, vocals are clear as a bell. Highs are clean and controlled. They are a step up from my Svara L's which I love but alas are discontinued


----------



## Mhog55

HungryPanda said:


> I'm listening to Tool's new Album with the Smabat's right now and Bass is impactful but not overcooked, nice and tight. Mids are really good, guitars are sounding great, vocals are clear as a bell. Highs are clean and controlled. They are a step up from my Svara L's which I love but alas are discontinued


Right on. I just realized there are a few reviews on head fi too. Appreciate the suggestion!


----------



## mbwilson111

irv003 said:


> wider soundstage, with nice treble extensions, bass not overwhelming (not boomy) but with quality, vocals are airy.
> i think mochill here can help us with his impression so it will not be bias.



Those are not going to fulfill his requirements for wanting a removable cable.  Also I personally would not be able to run with any of the MX500 style buds... maybe some can but it is hard for me to imagine.    Something worn overear would be more stable.


----------



## Mhog55

Howdy. I've noticed throughout various threads, you and I seem to have similar tastes. May I ask which earbuds you are liking?


----------



## Mhog55

mbwilson111 said:


> Those are not going to fulfill his requirements for wanting a removable cable.  Also I personally would not be able to run with any of the MX500 style buds... maybe some can but it is hard for me to imagine.    Something worn overear would be more stable.


I don't need a removable cable, though it's a nice bonus. This just came about via the previous suggestion.


----------



## mbwilson111

Mhog55 said:


> Right on. I just realized there are a few reviews on head fi too. Appreciate the suggestion!



People have given impressions but maybe there have not been formal reviews.  You would have to run a search to find all the comments... this is such a huge thread and there are so many buds.  BTW, those Smabats that Panda is listening to belong to me...and I agree with his comments.  He had just better not try to take them from me now... lol.


----------



## Mhog55

mbwilson111 said:


> People have given impressions but maybe there have not been formal reviews.  You would have to run a search to find all the comments... this is such a huge thread and there are so many buds.  BTW, those Smabats that Panda is listening to belong to me...and I agree with his comments.  He had just better not try to take them from me now... lol.


I haven't read these yet though.


----------



## groucho69

Mhog55 said:


> Howdy. I've noticed throughout various threads, you and I seem to have similar tastes. May I ask which earbuds you are liking?



LOL. MB likes what are in her ears at the moment. There are very few that she cannot appreciate.


----------



## mbwilson111

Mhog55 said:


> Howdy. I've noticed throughout various threads, you and I seem to have similar tastes. May I ask which earbuds you are liking?



I like all my earbuds so what I like right now is whatever is in my ears   Today I was enjoying a pair that my husband made for me today.  I use my earbuds the same way I use my headphones... relaxing at home.  For out and about I would choose IEMs.... probably a good sounding but inexpensive pair.  I am too protective of my stuff

Todays new creation... one for each of us.   No shilling here... none of the buds he makes are for sale.


----------



## mbwilson111

groucho69 said:


> LOL. MB likes what are in her ears at the moment. There are very few that she cannot appreciate.



That is because I won't buy anything that I think I won't appreciate  One thing we know is that you and I and @Mhog55 appreciate the Nighthawk!


----------



## Mhog55

mbwilson111 said:


> That is because I won't buy anything that I think I won't appreciate  One thing we know is that you and I and @Mhog55 appreciate the Nighthawk!


No doubt


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 25, 2019)

Mhog55 said:


> Hey there Head Fi members. I'm hoping to get some recommendations. Currently, I am using the Ty Hi-z 150s. My sources are an LG V40, and an Opus#1s. I'm looking for a definite upgrade. 80 bucks sounds about in my wheelhouse, but I'm willing to stretch for the right buds.
> Things I don't like about the Ty Hi-z - Muddy and congested would be my main complaint. Mids are a bit too scooped as well. I listen to hard rock, dating between the early 70s to the early 90s. I like my guitars, drums and vocals. Not sure if this will help, but I have gone through several full sized cans, and these are the four that I won't part ways with.
> Meze 99 Classics with original pads
> Sennheiser 58X
> ...



Yeah. The ST-10's are a good recommendation. Aliexpress sale is tomorrow (or today depending on time zone) so you may find a good deal for them.

Slight L shaped signature due to the lift in bass & sub-bass. Well balanced and almost neutral mids & highs with good detail and no harshness/sibilance (using full foams, medium thickness).

 

I've been using them for about 5 hours so far today on my modified BT20S. It's definitely a more comfortable fit (for me) than the original spring wire ear hooks.


----------



## mochill

The BBB v2 is unique , definitely Audiophile basshead in an earbud form , powerful and clean without distortion, mids are warm and natural as well as treble. Big soundstage and black background. Totally worth the money and they should be selling like hotcakes imho


----------



## Mhog55

mochill said:


> The BBB v2 is unique , definitely Audiophile basshead in an earbud form , powerful and clean without distortion, mids are warm and natural as well as treble. Big soundstage and black background. Totally worth the money and they should be selling like hotcakes imho


Thank you


----------



## Mhog55

Okay, I read all the head fi reviews for the ST-10. As usual, reviews are all over the place. The most common comments were that they have a lot of sub bass, and the rest of the spectrum is fairly neutral - kind of an L shape I suppose. Though some said it was rather V shaped. Everything else sounded really good, and several people mentioned that they sound like an open back full sized can... Hmmm... My only concern is fit and comfort. I have small ears. I prefer to use wing tips - or whatever they are called. They fit my ears perfect, and keep the buds in place. I just need them to stay put while running. Can I use wings with these? Still hoping to gather some more recommendations.


----------



## Mhog55

Well, now I'm fixated on having removable cables. If I can run something balanced, I'm gonna do so. That should narrow our scope down a bit. Looking at Penons website, I see a few others. Maybe some people can chime in on some of the various Toneking offerings, the Ourart ACG and Ti7 - The Paiaudio PRK1, and the Rose Masya / Pro. Are any of these better than the Smabat?


----------



## courierdriver

waynes world said:


> Have you considered the Radsone ES100? (assuming you have an android phone so that you can use LDAC)


I'm looking into it, but so far I'm a bit confused as to how this device works. It seems to be a bluetooth device, which I'm not really looking for. I want a dap that has a touchscreen (although I'm open to something that sounds good, and has a USB-C in/out, has USB audio, SD card slot for at least 128MB of music, and at least a 2.5mm balanced out, that has more power than my Q1MK2...220 milliwatts into 32 ohms, balanced output). For less than $300 CDN. So far, only the Xduoo X20 seems to fit the bill. DSD is also available as well as 32 bit/300+ PCM audio for computer. Balanced output is 300 milliwatts @ 32 ohms. Other options I've been checking out is Hiby R3 (which seems to have great UI, but a bit low on power, and Shanling M2S. Hiby is the cheapest price right now, but I'd have to still use the Q1MK2 as a balanced power amp, cause the Hiby only outputs 113 milliwatts in balanced. So again, a stack. But the great UI and the USB-C (plus the fact I already love the Hiby Music app on my smartphone) might make this a winner for me. And it's less than $200 CDN now, on Aliexpress. Sigh...so hard to decide.


----------



## assassin10000

Mhog55 said:


> Well, now I'm fixated on having removable cables. If I can run something balanced, I'm gonna do so. That should narrow our scope down a bit. Looking at Penons website, I see a few others. Maybe some people can chime in on some of the various Toneking offerings, the Ourart ACG and Ti7 - The Paiaudio PRK1, and the Rose Masya / Pro. Are any of these better than the Smabat?



The ACG (and TI7 reportedly) have great mids/highs but lack bass. Probably not best for your use.

Some of the tonekings may be good, @HungryPanda hopefully will chime in as he has some iirc. 

I'd search on the Rose Masya/pro. They had some problems with their 3d printed shells from what I recall.


Back to the ST-10, it has the same 16.8mm o.d. the mx500 shell's have and should use silicone wings meant for earbuds with no issues. The bass will be minimal unless you are fortunate enough to get a great seal with no foams.


----------



## mochill

Mhog55 said:


> Thank you


I am here to help as always


----------



## Mhog55

assassin10000 said:


> The ACG (and TI7 reportedly) have great mids/highs but lack bass. Probably not best for your use.
> 
> Some of the tonekings may be good, @HungryPanda hopefully will chime in as he has some iirc.
> 
> ...


Copy that


----------



## DAndrew

mochill said:


> The BBB v2 is unique , definitely Audiophile basshead in an earbud form , powerful and clean without distortion, mids are warm and natural as well as treble. Big soundstage and black background. Totally worth the money and they should be selling like hotcakes imho



I really dislike his shilling and these exaggerated descriptions of his earbuds with "audiophile" slangs that tell nothing at all; from the pages that I read to get updated, every person asking for a recommendation gets his earbuds shoved down their throat. This needs to stop


----------



## DAndrew

So I went to the flea market this weekend and look what I found 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 , have to say they sound very good and are pretty much the sound signature that I am looking for, everything is so balanced and feels right, the only lacking thing is bass despite the fact that they have a frequency range of 8-25hz.


----------



## DAndrew

Also, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000120453244.html , looks like another lucky bag


----------



## GREQ

DAndrew said:


> I really dislike his shilling and these exaggerated descriptions of his earbuds with "audiophile" slangs that tell nothing at all; from the pages that I read to get updated, every person asking for a recommendation gets his earbuds shoved down their throat. This needs to stop



Time to be _that guy_ again... it actually goes against the Terms of User for 'members of the trade' to recommend their products on the forums or in private messages.
It's definitely a reportable offence.


----------



## XP_98 (Aug 26, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> Smabat ST-10 would be a good earbud to get


Can someone measure the size of the Smabat ST-10 buds, and how it compares with Yuin shells (that are 16,1mm I think) ?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

The new Fukubukuro appeared on sale. Will someone risk it?


----------



## wskl

Alex.Grimm said:


> The new Fukubukuro appeared on sale. Will someone risk it?



I already placed my order , could not resist!


----------



## snip3r77 (Aug 26, 2019)

What’s inside nicehck lucky bag this time lemao

*Jim NiceHCK*: Hi, old friends,
Only need $7.99(no mic)/$8.99(with mic)/:000, a new amazing earbud is coming, for AliExpress august BIG SALE lucky bag.

Mr ClieOS of the Head-fi Forum is an expert in terms of earbuds.
He gave us a lot of tuning advice for this earbud.
And he believes that this earbud can be priced up to US $28/:015
But in order to provide our old customers with the most cost-effective product, we are finally pricing at US $7.99！！！
This a super cost-effective earbud, especially the sound is amazing.
*Please note, the shape of this earbud is different from MX500.
For those who prefer earbuds, this is a product cannot be missed.
At the price of $7.99, this earbud have almost no opponents.


You can buy it from here ↓
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000120453244.html?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.1.b2e34702ncRtZd


----------



## jogawag

DAndrew said:


> Also, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000120453244.html , looks like another lucky bag


A message from Jim NiceHCK says that this lucky bag has earbuds tuned with ClieOS.


----------



## KevDzn

No, leak pics this time around?
wink.....wink....


----------



## DAndrew

jogawag said:


> A message from Jim NiceHCK says that this lucky bag has earbuds tuned with ClieOS.



To be honest you cant do that much "tuning" on an earbud. Yeah sure you can cover ports and what not but at the end of the day the soun is 90% the same. I have found by experimenting with different new and vintage drivers that what matters the most is the driver...and you cant tune that after its made. The whole "we special tuned the driver" thing is just a marketing ploy.

The only exceptional driver I saw and one that I can say is "tuned" is the custom made ZoomFred drivers , handmade from scratch. Got pictures of him literally winding the voice coil


----------



## krunchcrispy

So, with new Fukubukuro, the email states: "It adopts classical modeling design" -- anybody know what that means?


----------



## darmanastartes

Mhog55 said:


> Okay, I read all the head fi reviews for the ST-10. As usual, reviews are all over the place. The most common comments were that they have a lot of sub bass, and the rest of the spectrum is fairly neutral - kind of an L shape I suppose. Though some said it was rather V shaped. Everything else sounded really good, and several people mentioned that they sound like an open back full sized can... Hmmm... My only concern is fit and comfort. I have small ears. I prefer to use wing tips - or whatever they are called. They fit my ears perfect, and keep the buds in place. I just need them to stay put while running. Can I use wings with these? Still hoping to gather some more recommendations.


Worth mentioning that the ST-10 is supposed to be worn cable-up, which should help them stay in place. I can't comment on the wing tips.


----------



## DAndrew

krunchcrispy said:


> So, with new Fukubukuro, the email states: "It adopts classical modeling design" -- anybody know what that means?



Probably mx500-like


----------



## snip3r77

krunchcrispy said:


> So, with new Fukubukuro, the email states: "It adopts classical modeling design" -- anybody know what that means?



perhaps it's good for classical music. LMAO


----------



## ClieOS

DAndrew said:


> Probably mx500-like



Not MX500 style actually.


----------



## jogawag

ClieOS said:


> Not MX500 style actually.


Do you have the image of the earbuds?


----------



## RobinFood

ClieOS said:


> Not MX500 style actually.



Yuin style?
Smaller? Bigger?


----------



## krunchcrispy

IT would be nice to know the Ohms of this new Fukubukuro -- I am in the market for a 150 OHM or higher, but not a general 30-60, already have too many and nothing beats the Kube at that Ohm-age.


----------



## JackFlash

RobinFood said:


> Yuin style?
> Smaller? Bigger?



Would like to know this as well. I have small ears


----------



## mbwilson111

krunchcrispy said:


> IT would be nice to know the Ohms of this new Fukubukuro -- I am in the market for a 150 OHM or higher, but not a general 30-60, already have too many and nothing beats the Kube at that Ohm-age.



I seriously doubt that they are high ohm because not everyone has a source that can drive them.


----------



## krunchcrispy

mbwilson111 said:


> I seriously doubt that they are high ohm because not everyone has a source that can drive them.


Tru. . .


----------



## mbwilson111

ClieOS said:


> Not MX500 style actually.




I would like it to be a little smaller (less bulky) than the ME80 because that one is a bit uncomfortable for me.


----------



## ClieOS

jogawag said:


> Do you have the image of the earbuds?



I have the prototypes, but not sure I am allowed to show them yet.



RobinFood said:


> Yuin style?
> Smaller? Bigger?



Small.


----------



## bhima

I haven't been here for quite awhile as I have been quite satisfied with my Shozy BKs. Decided to jump on the NiceHK Fukubukuro. $9 for hopefully decent sounding buds with a microphone? Sign me up!


----------



## Kumonomukou (Aug 26, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> I have the prototypes, but not sure I am allowed to show them yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Small.



That's a pleasant surprise! I was convinced that it'll be something like ME-80. A smaller design will be a huge plus to me in terms of comfort.

This is actually my first lucky bag purchase ever. I was waiting for the M sized ST-10 that may never come, and was just gonna buy a pair of Bluetooth adapter (BT20s), then I saw this. I tried to resist it by bringing on my self-enforced limiter(Maximum of 7 pairs earbuds in my possession) I know...kinda stupid right, but that's how I keep myself from buying excessive gears.

Minutes later... 'Okay, THESE or A cup of venti cold brew plus a shot of expresso at Starbucks?' You all know what happened. I'm gonna move a set out of my lineup next week (Thinking.. Nuforce Hem1).


----------



## XP_98

darmanastartes said:


> Worth mentioning that the ST-10 is supposed to be worn cable-up, which should help them stay in place. I can't comment on the wing tips.


I have the same question...
I already asked here if someone could measure the size of the earbuds, and compare with the Yuin shells (16,1 I think).


----------



## phixion (Aug 26, 2019)

Seems I am late with this lucky bag news, I've ordered.


----------



## darmanastartes

XP_98 said:


> I have the same question...
> I already asked here if someone could measure the size of the earbuds, and compare with the Yuin shells (16,1 I think).


The ST-10s are a hair over 16mm in diameter.


----------



## mbwilson111

krunchcrispy said:


> IT would be nice to know the Ohms of this new Fukubukuro



While I was placing my order for the fukubukuro, I looked at the details that are available on the page.  The buds are 32 ohm...which I expected.


----------



## FastAndClean

anyone tried the Moondrop flagship earbud?


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 26, 2019)

XP_98 said:


> Can someone measure the size of the Smabat ST-10 buds, and how it compares with Yuin shells (that are 16,1mm I think) ?



Already did, see below.



darmanastartes said:


> The ST-10s are a hair over 16mm in diameter.



Dimensions and picture for size comparison:


assassin10000 said:


> A couple more measurements and a shape comparison.
> 
> 15.9mm EBX (17.70mm wide/thick)
> 16.8mm Smabat ST-10 (16.60mm wide/thick)
> ...


----------



## Mhog55

XP_98 said:


> Can someone measure the size of the Smabat ST-10 buds, and how it compares with Yuin shells (that are 16,1mm I think) ?


Assassin1000 said 16.8mm diameter on the previous page.


----------



## ValSilva

ClieOS did you realize that this thread is now ten years old? Thank you ClieOS and thanks for all of you that made this thread exist  Congratulations


----------



## Mhog55

darmanastartes said:


> Worth mentioning that the ST-10 is supposed to be worn cable-up, which should help them stay in place. I can't comment on the wing tips.


I know. Part of the reason I'm concerned about fit. If the cable is tight, or if I'm running, I would imagine that the buds would naturally want to pull down. Possibly even from the weight of the cable alone. Can anyone elaborate on this?


----------



## Narayan23

mbwilson111 said:


> While I was placing my order for the fukubukuro, I looked at the details that are available on the page.  The buds are 32 ohm...which I expected.



I wasn´t planning on buying anything for a long time, in fact I´m in selling mode for the time being but reading ClieOS was involved in the project my hands took a will of their own, which promptly issued a warning lament from my credit card involving the first four letters of the bud´s name.
Ten years and over four million views, thanks for pointing that out ValSilva, the baby ClieOS conceived and all of us nurtured is growing very healthy indeed, consider yourselves group-hugged!


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## ClieOS

XP_98 said:


> I have the same question...
> I already asked here if someone could measure the size of the earbuds, and compare with the Yuin shells (16,1 I think).



While the real Yuin is measured to about 16.1mm in diameter, the PK shell from other brands can measure up to 16.8mm in diameter. ST-10 on the other hand is about 16.8mm in diameter.


----------



## assassin10000

ClieOS said:


> While the real Yuin is measured to about 16.1mm in diameter, the PK shell from other brands can measure up to 16.8mm in diameter. ST-10 on the other hand is about 16.8mm in diameter.



What's the diameter of this new lucky bag earbud?


----------



## ClieOS

assassin10000 said:


> What's the diameter of this new lucky bag earbud?



In the 16~17mm range.


----------



## toear

Can anyone please confirm the MMCX size for the RY4S Plus? 2.5mm or 3.5mm? Also, would anyone suggest silver vs copper?

thanks!


----------



## theresanarc

wskl said:


> Hisoundaudio HSA-E351
> https://penonaudio.com/hisoundaudio-hsa-e351.html



Anyone know where to get this in stock? It's not on AE and out of stock from that link. Ideally a site that's in English.


----------



## Mhog55

Any further recommendations for


Mhog55 said:


> Hey there Head Fi members. I'm hoping to get some recommendations. Currently, I am using the Ty Hi-z 150s. My sources are an LG V40, and an Opus#1s. I'm looking for a definite upgrade. 80 bucks sounds about in my wheelhouse, but I'm willing to stretch for the right buds.
> Things I don't like about the Ty Hi-z - Muddy and congested would be my main complaint. Mids are a bit too scooped as well. I listen to hard rock, dating between the early 70s to the early 90s. I like my guitars, drums and vocals. Not sure if this will help, but I have gone through several full sized cans, and these are the four that I won't part ways with.
> Meze 99 Classics with original pads
> Sennheiser 58X
> ...


Anymore recommendations for me? The ST-10 looks promising, but I would like to have a few more suggestions.


----------



## jogawag

Mhog55 said:


> Any further recommendations for
> 
> Anymore recommendations for me? The ST-10 looks promising, but I would like to have a few more suggestions.


I recommend MusicMaker Ting for you.


----------



## Mhog55

jogawag said:


> I recommend MusicMaker Ting for you.


Thank you. What do you like about them?


----------



## jogawag (Aug 27, 2019)

theresanarc said:


> Anyone know where to get this in stock? It's not on AE and out of stock from that link. Ideally a site that's in English.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hisoundaud...sional-Stereo-Earbuds-Earphones-/291785269115
Edit:
Sorry, not available.


----------



## jogawag (Aug 27, 2019)

Mhog55 said:


> Thank you. What do you like about them?


I like them as a baby MX985,


----------



## mbwilson111

I spent time with my Smabat last night and discovered that adding a donut foam to the regular foam does in fact make them sound even better.... as ClieOS  originally told us.   I just did not think it would fit like that for me so I had not tried it.  Luckily my husband @HungryPanda was home to put the donuts on for me.  I could have never done it.  Hard enough for me to just get regular foams on.




toear said:


> Can anyone please confirm the MMCX size for the RY4S Plus? 2.5mm or 3.5mm? Also, would anyone suggest silver vs copper?
> 
> thanks!



I personally prefer copper but others may disagree.   

When you ask about 2.5mm vs 3.5mm,  that has nothing to do with the MMCX connector itself .   It refers to the plug end.   2.5mm is for a source that has a 2.5mm balanced output.   3.5mm is the normal plug for a phone or other 3.5mm SE source .   IF you plan to buy something later that has balanced output you could go ahead and get a 2.5mm balanced cable and also a 2.5mm female  to 3.5mm male adapter to use with it for now.

If you  have no idea what I am talking about just choose the 3.5mm and you will be fine.... unless you  have a phone with no headphone jack!




jogawag said:


> I recommend MusicMaker Ting for you.



The Ting sounds great... I just wish mine fit me... they were too big when I got them.  Maybe my ears have stretched though or I have learned to better fit my buds.  I should get them out and try again.  You have just made me want to do that


----------



## toear

mbwilson111 said:


> I personally prefer copper but others may disagree.
> 
> When you ask about 2.5mm vs 3.5mm,  that has nothing to do with the MMCX connector itself .   It refers to the plug end.   2.5mm is for a source that has a 2.5mm balanced output.   3.5mm is the normal plug for a phone or other 3.5mm SE source .   IF you plan to buy something later that has balanced output you could go ahead and get a 2.5mm balanced cable and also a 2.5mm female  to 3.5mm male adapter to use with it for now.



Hehe.. thanks for the clarification! I had a brain freeze. Finally interpreted the options and what they were talking about... Finally... I got the jack size confused with the plug size and was furiously trying to find info the 'two' different mmcx size versions (new plug design?!) Like the different two-pin size configurations available... Lol! Too much excitement!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Alex.Grimm said:


> The new Fukubukuro appeared on sale. Will someone risk it?





wskl said:


> I already placed my order , could not resist!


Me too!


----------



## robar

Anyone knows the driver size of lucky bag? I mean 15.4mm, 14.8mm etc.


----------



## Mhog55

mbwilson111 said:


> I spent time with my Smabat last night and discovered that adding a donut foam to the regular foam does in fact make them sound even better.... as ClieOS  originally told us.   I just did not think it would fit like that for me so I had not tried it.  Luckily my husband @HungryPanda was home to put the donuts on for me.  I could have never done it.  Hard enough for me to just get regular foams on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So the Ting is larger than the Smabat. Good to know. How do you know the Ting sounds great, if you can't get them to fit?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Aug 27, 2019)

Mhog55 said:


> So the Ting is larger than the Smabat. Good to know. How do you know the Ting sounds great, if you can't get them to fit?



They will fit if I sit perfectly still but they are uncomfortable  They aren't wider... they are thick.  It all depends on ear anatomy.  Same size and shape and many of the Tonekings that others including my husband find comfortable.

The thick part just does not tuck under my tragus very well.  Not my photo.


----------



## jogawag

Mhog55 said:


> So the Ting is larger than the Smabat. Good to know. How do you know the Ting sounds great, if you can't get them to fit?


Please do not worry. The diameter of Ting's Shell is definitely smaller than Smabat or PK Shell.


----------



## mbwilson111

jogawag said:


> Please do not worry. The diameter of Ting's Shell is definitely smaller than Smabat or PK Shell.



For me it is not always about the diameter.  Other aspects of the shape affect fit as well.  Not sure why the photo of the Ting did not work before but it should be ok now.


----------



## Mhog55

mbwilson111 said:


> They will fit if I sit perfectly still but they are uncomfortable  They aren't wider... they are thick.  It all depends on ear anatomy.  Same size and shape and many of the Tonekings that others including my husband find comfortable.
> 
> The thick part just does not tuck under my tragus very well.  Not my photo.


I had to Google tragus


----------



## Mhog55

jogawag said:


> Please do not worry. The diameter of Ting's Shell is definitely smaller than Smabat or PK Shell.


I think the best thing to do is to measure my Ty Hi-z. They fit perfectly with the wing tips.


----------



## Mhog55

mbwilson111 said:


> For me it is not always about the diameter.  Other aspects of the shape affect fit as well.  Not sure why the photo of the Ting did not work before but it should be ok now.


Any chance I can talk you into measuring the width and depth of both the Smabat and Ting?


----------



## mbwilson111

Mhog55 said:


> Any chance I can talk you into measuring the width and depth of both the Smabat and Ting?



I cannot... if you knew how long it took to get the foam plus the donut on my smabat... and how long it took to get a foam on the Ting, you would understand.  ... and even if I did take all the foams off to measure I don't think I would be very accurate.

Everyone's ear anatomy is  different.   Best I can do is take a photo side by side later... with foams on.  

My biggest concern in recommending something for you is the fact that you want to jog with them.  I used to be a runner and there is no way I could have run with any of these in my ears.  I use them at home the same way I use my headphones.   To me the best ones are like listening with open headphones ... without the weight and the heat.  It was 90 degrees F today...

I think you would love the sound with some of these but have you considered using a simple IEM for running?  A sweatproof one?   Some of the sports iems are sweatproof... or so they say...


----------



## XP_98 (Aug 27, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> Already did, see below.
> 
> 
> 
> Dimensions and picture for size comparison:


Thank you for your answer, but that  measurement is a huge difference from "a hair over 16mm..." mentioned before... Thinking they would have about the same size as my Yuin, I ordered them. Now I fear they would not fit (Yuin is ok for me, but not Mx500), and it's too late to cancel...


----------



## Mhog55

mbwilson111 said:


> I cannot... if you knew how long it took to get the foam plus the donut on my smabat... and how long it took to get a foam on the Ting, you would understand.  ... and even if I did take all the foams off to measure I don't think I would be very accurate.
> 
> Everyone's ear anatomy is  different.   Best I can do is take a photo side by side later... with foams on.
> 
> ...


No worries. I run just fine with the Ty Hi-z. It's just a matter of appropriate diameter. I can't put stuff in my ears. I'm kinda glad I can't. It would be yet another rabbit hole to chase down. Full sized cans are plenty.


----------



## mbwilson111

Mhog55 said:


> I can't put stuff in my ears. I'm kinda glad I can't.



You are safer anyway being more aware of your surroundings with buds.  I actually do not like the isolation of iems even though I have many iems that I like the sound of.   ... and yes... too many rabbit holes out there...

Believe it or not... when I was a runner I was not listening to music at all during my runs (even the longer ones like 10-15 miles)  I was just alone with my thoughts, or, conversing with a running partner. Usually I did run with someone on those longer runs.


----------



## Mhog55

If I don't have Rob Halford or Udo Dirkschneider yelling in my ears, I have no motivation to get off the couch, let alone run.


----------



## mbwilson111

Mhog55 said:


> If I don't have Rob Halford or Udo Dirkschneider yelling in my ears, I have no motivation to get off the couch, let alone run.



I was younger then.


----------



## Mhog55

Is anyone using the Shenzehn Paiaudio PRK1?


----------



## NStef

I'm glad I found this thread and have had a great deal of fun following it.  The wheels of progress turn very slowly for me, so I'm not ready to make any decisions or purchases yet but at the very least, I now know what a tragus is.
  : 0 )


----------



## mbwilson111

Mhog55 said:


> Is anyone using the Shenzehn Paiaudio PRK1?



My husband has it but is away at work for a couple of days.  When his first  arrived there was a problem with one of the mmcx connectors so that one of the sides would not click into place.   He had to pack it up (just the ear pieces) and send it back to Hong Kong.  The turn around was about a month but they did come back (repaired or replaced.. don't know which).   Meanwhile he had said that I could have them when they arrived.  I was really looking forward to having them and had bought a cable for them as I did not want to use the over ear hook stock cable.  I prefer my buds cable down... except the Smabat.

I ended up not getting a fit... again because of the thickness I think.  Sadly I gave them back to him but I am not even sure if he has used them.   We have way too much.  Headfi's fault of course.

Strangely, the Rose Masya fits me very well.  I was surprised.  I recently acquired a used set but before buying it I had tried my husband's pair to make sure it would fit.  I love it.  It really sounds big to me... like a headphone.  Wonderful vocals.  Well worth having for home listening... not sure about running.  I would hate to see the drivers of some of these more expensive ones ruined by moisture.


----------



## flamesofarctica

NStef said:


> I'm glad I found this thread and have had a great deal of fun following it.  The wheels of progress turn very slowly for me, so I'm not ready to make any decisions or purchases yet but at the very least, I now know what a tragus is.
> : 0 )



The great thing is that when you're ready, you can start inexpensive, as in very inexpensive, and still get something really fun to listen with... while you consider what to buy next 

You could always start with the mystery lucky bag - no decision required or possible, none of us know what we're getting.

And yes, I learned about my tragus here too. Don't think I've got much of one (well, two), my ears are somewhat odd!


----------



## mbwilson111

flamesofarctica said:


> I learned about my tragus here too. Don't think I've got much of one (well, two), my ears are somewhat odd!



Have you looked at the photos of ears online?  So much variation and you can see why fit would be very difficult for some.


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 27, 2019)

Mhog55 said:


> I know. Part of the reason I'm concerned about fit. If the cable is tight, or if I'm running, I would imagine that the buds would naturally want to pull down. Possibly even from the weight of the cable alone. Can anyone elaborate on this?



Having the cable over ear prevents the cable weight from pulling directly on the buds (or iems) making for a much more secure fit. Especially when active, such as running. You may not need the wing tips if you do get earbuds that route the cable over ear.



ClieOS said:


> In the 16~17mm range.



Doh! Can you confirm its in the 15.9-16.4mm or 16.5-17.0mm range?

Most mx shell size earbuds don't fit me well. The exception being the Smabat (and probably older Svara) due to their thinner housing.



robar said:


> Anyone knows the driver size of lucky bag? I mean 15.4mm, 14.8mm etc.



Not yet. Unless @ClieOS shares it with us.



Mhog55 said:


> I think the best thing to do is to measure my Ty Hi-z. They fit perfectly with the wing tips.



If it's this earbud:
https://penonaudio.com/ty-hi-z-f150ts150s150-earbuds.html

That appears to be a mx/mx500 type shell that typically is around 16.8mm in diameter, and uses 15.4mm drivers.



XP_98 said:


> Thank you for your answer, but that  measurement is a huge difference from "a hair over 16mm...". Thinking they would have about the same size as my Yuin, I ordered them. Now I fear they would not fit (Yuin is ok for me, but not Mx500), and it's too late to cancel...



I have the same issue with MX type shells. Fortunately the thinness of the Smabat ST-10 tucks fairly well into my tragus/anti-tragus and is the only 16.8mm bud that I've tried that fits well.

Compare top left and bottom left:

 

See how the bottom left is straightish near the bottom? Between the size and that lack of relief they aren't as comfortable (forme) as the PK shell on the bottom right.


My prior fit issues with the ST-10 were due to using them with the original ear cable/hooks on my BT20S. (Un) fortunately I ended up breaking a wire in one ear hook trying to spin the connector around to use with my Ourart ACG's, which led me to modifying them. Now that I have a non memory wire and straight mmcx connector on it, the ST-10 once again fits well.


----------



## ClieOS

assassin10000 said:


> Doh! Can you confirm its in the 15.9-16.4mm or 16.5-17.0mm range?
> 
> Most mx shell size earbuds don't fit me well. The exception being the Smabat (and probably older Svara) due to their thinner housing.



I haven't received the final production yet so I can't say for sure. But as said before, it isn't MX500 style.


----------



## Mhog55

Alright then. I think I've narrowed my search down to 3, maybe 4. I don't forsee any major fitment issues, considering some of the comments written above. 
Rose Masya Pro 
Bit more than I want to spend. Seems to be the more technical, analytical bud of the group. 
Ourart ACG 
Sounds like the mids master of the group, and that's kinda what I'm after. Unfortunately, they may be a bit too bass shy for my tastes. 
Toneking to400s 
Not a lot of info or reviews, but perhaps the most neutral of the bunch? Not sure just how hard they are to drive. Don't know if my V40 and Opus#1s will push them to their full potential.
Smabat ST-10 
Likely will roll the dice with these, unless someone wants to take a stab at convincing me otherwise. These have the most readily available information and reviews, and all reviews are positive towards sound quality. Only concern is the mids. 
Anybody care to comment which of these buds they would choose for rock and metal, and why?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Aug 28, 2019)

Mhog55 said:


> Anybody care to comment which of these buds they would choose for rock and metal, and why?



I am not going to try to help on this one... I do listen to rock but not metal.  I mostly listen to singer songwriters, blues, folk,  indie... that sort of thing.  My main desire is to relax with music and I think yours is to have music energize you.

...and yet, we both love the Nighthawk...


----------



## Mhog55

mbwilson111 said:


> I am not going to try to help on this one... I do listen to rock but not metal.  I mostly listen to singer songwriters, blues, folk,  indie... that sort of thing.  I main desire is to relax with music and I think yours is to have music energize you.
> 
> ...and yet, we both love the Nighthawk...


I think I'm after more of a middle ground, slightly swaying towards the energetic side. I'm definitely not after a 650 sound, but I'm not after a Grado either. Give me a Meze 99 Classics in earbud form (or at least close to), and I'll be happy. Obviously not expecting that type of bass though.


----------



## HungryPanda

Mhog55 said:


> Is anyone using the Shenzehn Paiaudio PRK1?


This is one earbud I cannot recommend as there is no bass at all, none.


----------



## Mhog55

HungryPanda said:


> This is one earbud I cannot recommend as there is no bass at all, none.


Groovy. I can rule that one out.


----------



## assassin10000

Mhog55 said:


> Alright then. I think I've narrowed my search down to 3, maybe 4. I don't forsee any major fitment issues, considering some of the comments written above.
> Rose Masya Pro
> Bit more than I want to spend. Seems to be the more technical, analytical bud of the group.
> Ourart ACG
> ...



Do you use EQ? I do, I add at least 4.5db to 31&62 hz on my ACG's, sometimes 8-12db depending on the track.

Between the ACG & the ST-10, for an all rounder I would choose the ST-10. For classical, acoustic and vocals the ACG.


----------



## Mhog55

assassin10000 said:


> Do you use EQ? I do, I add at least 4.5db to 31&62 hz on my ACG's, sometimes 8-12db depending on the track.
> 
> Between the ACG & the ST-10, for an all rounder I would choose the ST-10. For classical, acoustic and vocals the ACG.


Awesome. I utilize equalization with every headphone I own. Does the ACG respond well to EQ? If so, this may be the route to go for the mids.


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 28, 2019)

Mhog55 said:


> Awesome. I utilize equalization with every headphone I own. Does the ACG respond well to EQ? If so, this may be the route to go for the mids.



It responds ok.

Ymmv on EQ though, as @seanc6441 had the Ourart TI7 and his driver membrane failed with 5db of bass boost. It separated or came unglued iirc.

The TI7 does have a thicker membrane than the thinner ACG. So that could be why mine is still ok. It's also why I have a backup pair lol.


I would still go with the ST-10. Much safer to remove bass than add it. Especially since the ST-10's bass doesn't bleed into the mids. Plus its the same diameter as your current buds, which means those wing tips should fit it. Combined with wearing over ear it should be great for running.

The ACG is not as wide, but is way thicker. I don't think it will fit those wing tips. Under movement they do shift around and if I tilt my head, fall out of place.


----------



## Mhog55

assassin10000 said:


> It responds ok.
> 
> Ymmv on EQ though, as @seanc6441 had the Ourart TI7 and his driver membrane failed with 5db of bass boost. It separated or came unglued iirc.
> 
> ...


Interesting. I really just want the cleanest sound I can get of the buds I listed. While I think the Ty Hi-z sounds decent enough for what it is, it has many faults. I find some of the reviews I read about the buds I listed a little hard to believe, and I don't want to set myself up, or have to high of expectations. Hearing is believing I suppose. 
Ty Hi-z has okay sub bass, but I'd like a touch more. Mid bass bleeds and becomes congested. I'd like a cleaner, more pronounced and tactile sub bass. Mids are congested as well. Vocals can get shouty and rough, but they really aren't that bad. Electric guitars are a little too pushed back, without enough crunch and energy. Treble doesn't have enough sparkle, and rolls off too fast. Overall, I'd call them V shaped and veiled. Width isn't bad, but I could do with a little more air, and some better separation. Maybe this will provide just a little better understanding of what I'm after. But again, I'm not expecting to get what a full size can can offer.


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> This is one earbud I cannot recommend as there is no bass at all, none.





Mhog55 said:


> Groovy. I can rule that one out.



Now I remember.  I thought the reason that I was not getting any bass was because of the fit.


----------



## XmarX

mbwilson111 said:


> While I was placing my order for the fukubukuro, I looked at the details that are available on the page.  The buds are 32 ohm...which I expected.


Hi guys!

I was looking for a cheap earbud and got this message  " AliExpress august BIG SALE lucky bag" 
from Jim @NiceHCK. 

Worth a punt ?


----------



## mbwilson111

XmarX said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> I was looking for a cheap earbud and got this message  " AliExpress august BIG SALE lucky bag"
> from Jim @NiceHCK.
> ...



Why not?  You will feel left out when everyone else gets theirs if you don't have one   I have been happy with my previous Nicehck fukubuko buds  (lucky bags) - the EB2 and the ME80.


----------



## cenix

I dove in and ordered 2 lucky bags. Really hope it's something worthwhile.


----------



## XmarX

Ok, I'll get one.

Let's see hows my luck!


----------



## mbwilson111

cenix said:


> I dove in and ordered 2 lucky bags. Really hope it's something worthwhile.





XmarX said:


> Ok, I'll get one.
> 
> Let's see hows my luck!



It will be a bud that none of us have yet...and it will be worth more than we paid.  We will all be lucky

So far we know it is not an MX500 shell, it is 32 ohm and @ClieOS helped with the tuning.  I trust his ears.

I think mine has shipped but no tracking yet.


----------



## ClieOS

Don't think I'll party for awhile: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/just-bitten-by-snake.913966/


----------



## mbwilson111

ClieOS said:


> Don't think I'll party for awhile: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/just-bitten-by-snake.913966/



Oh no..that is horrible.  I will subscribe to that thread to,keep,track of how you are doing.  Recover quickly!


----------



## phixion (Aug 29, 2019)

Got the Qian39 and Vido's today, both sound great but fit isn't great for me.

The Vido's are too big, although with foams on I can kinda stuff them in and they will sort of stay in.

The Qian39 are better but still a bit big and would fall out if I moved about too much.

Any smaller shell budget earbuds? Maybe earbuds just aren't for my ears 

I still have the Edifier H180 and RY4S coming...


----------



## mbwilson111 (Aug 29, 2019)

phixion said:


> Got the Qian39 and Vido's today, both sound great but fit isn't great for me.
> 
> The Vido's are too big, although with foams on I can kinda stuff them in and they will sort of stay in.
> 
> ...



The RY4S, Vido and many others have the MX500 shell ( or Monk shell as I like to say).  The way you described the fit sounds kind of like how they fit me.  I am used to it and with time have learned to fit them as securely as possible. Pull down a bit on the stem once you have tucked what you can under the tragus.

Some that I own that seem smaller to me

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32838130155.html

ttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/32917468583.html

and any of the PK2 shelled ones that people talk about in here... including the SR2

also anything with a Docomo shell

edited to correct error... the Edifier 180 is not a MX500 shell.


----------



## wskl

phixion said:


> Got the Qian39 and Vido's today, both sound great but fit isn't great for me.
> 
> The Vido's are too big, although with foams on I can kinda stuff them in and they will sort of stay in.
> 
> ...





mbwilson111 said:


> The Edifier H180, RY4S, Vido and many others have the MX500 shell ( or Monk shell as I like to say).  The way you described the fit sounds kind of like how they fit me.  I am used to it and with time have learned to fit them as securely as possible. Pull down a bit on the stem once you have tucked what you can under the tragus.
> 
> Some that I own that seem smaller to me
> 
> ...



I would also like to add that if the earbuds keep falling out, you can try attaching those shark fin shaped ear hooks, perhaps they will hold them in place.

In addition to the the suggestions made by @mbwilson111, there is also the Toneking ROS1 which was described as "tiny" by one member.

Another alternative may be an Apple Earpod style, something like the Yincrow RW-100 or **** PT25.


----------



## 40760

Or the Remax RM-303...


----------



## mbwilson111 (Aug 29, 2019)

wskl said:


> there is also the Toneking ROS1 which was described as "tiny" by one member.



I have that one too but I thought maybe it was not budget enough.  Actually it is almost too small for me because there is nothing to grab on to when putting it in my ear.. so it is too  small for my fingers...fits my ear great. What looks like a stem is only shrink wrap.   Anyway it is cheaper right now during the sale so this would be a good time to get it if anyone was thinking about it.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32976387252.html




palestofwhite said:


> Or the Remax RM-303...



I forgot about that one... excellent choice.  Love mine.. very secure and comfortable and sounds great... I just wish it did not have a mic.

I think I have forgotten another that might not have ever been added to my list... I need to check some of my cases.

@phixion 

edited to add

here is the one I forgot... I need to add it to my list!!  I think this shell has been used on a couple of other things but not sure what

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32988794719.html


----------



## SKIBSKIB

phixion said:


> Got the Qian39 and Vido's today, both sound great but fit isn't great for me.
> (...)
> Any smaller shell budget earbuds? Maybe earbuds just aren't for my ears (...)



That's been my experience with the RY4S, they do indeed sound great for the price I've payed, but I just cant make them fit on my right ear.

There's something about my helix crus (the hard part in the middle of the concha, above the cavum) that makes them painful to fit snuggly .

I wish there was something similar sounding with a smaller shell.


----------



## HighLevelDemon

phixion said:


> Got the Qian39 and Vido's today, both sound great but fit isn't great for me.
> 
> The Vido's are too big, although with foams on I can kinda stuff them in and they will sort of stay in.
> 
> ...



I have these incoming:

- Edifier H180
- RY4S (3 versions including UE)
- Ollivan MS16 (cheaper clone of the Headroom MS16 but hopefully it sounds the same)
- Vido

Already have the Monk VE+ and (fake) Philips SHE3800. The SHE3800 (same shell as the H180) is definitely the more comfortable of the two. If there was a safe place to buy the "real" SHE3800 then those would prolly be good for you as well.

Here's a review of the MS16: https://audiobudget.com/product/Headroom/MS16

Will report back when I received and compared these buds.


----------



## Willber

HighLevelDemon said:


> I have these incoming:
> 
> - Edifier H180
> - RY4S (3 versions including UE)
> ...


Funny that you mention the MS16. I have been using mine again recently (Headroom version) and with a few EQ adjustments they are now one of my favourites. Nice balanced sound with a good soundstage and natural mids and sparkly highs. I have a few metal buds costing many times more than the MS16 but they are not as good IMO. (For some reason the two black ones I have sound different to the silver one - less bass but better clarity. I prefer the black.) Also I find them to be very comfortable. The only downside is the rubbery cable but I can live with that. 

I've just ordered the Ollivan version to do a comparison. If they are the same they will be ridiculously good value.

Now the race is on between them and the Lucky Bag!


----------



## HighLevelDemon

Willber said:


> Now the race is on between them and the Lucky Bag!



Those definitely have my interest as well, but would like to read a review first before buying.

I'm guessing / hoping that these are not a one-time production run and they will be revealed soon and available for the same price? Or how does it work with Lucky Bags.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Aug 29, 2019)

HighLevelDemon said:


> Those definitely have my interest as well, but would like to read a review first before buying.
> 
> I'm guessing / hoping that these are not a one-time production run and they will be revealed soon and available for the same price? Or how does it work with Lucky Bags.



The way it works is that when it's revealed and available, it is at a higher price...usually twice as much.  Otherwise what is the point of the gamble...and mystery.  It is supposed to be a fun surprise.

Knowing that ClieOS had a hand in the tuning is enough for me. Plus I have enjoyed previous lucky bags.  ...buds and iems


----------



## Willber

HighLevelDemon said:


> Those definitely have my interest as well, but would like to read a review first before buying.
> 
> I'm guessing / hoping that these are not a one-time production run and they will be revealed soon and available for the same price? Or how does it work with Lucky Bags.


Lucky bags are discounted for a limited time. When the offer ends they are sold only at the correct (higher) price. Most people have been happy with the deals IME.


----------



## mbwilson111

I am taking a chance on this one..I have had my eye on it for awhile. I ordered the transparent one.

https://www.aliexpress.com/i/33000268116.html


----------



## HighLevelDemon (Aug 29, 2019)

Ok, you convinced me, also bought the Lucky Bag one then 

Here's the link again for those who missed it: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000120453244.html


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> I am taking a chance on this one..I have had my eye on it for awhile. I ordered the transparent one.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/i/33000268116.html


I've been trying my recent RY4S 300 with that MMCX implementation. Although the sound is good I find that design makes the stems too long and heavy to be stable or comfortable. It's a shame but I won't be using them much. If they offered a fixed-cable version I would buy them.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> I've been trying my recent RY4S 300 with that MMCX implementation. Although the sound is good I find that design makes the stems too long and heavy to be stable or comfortable. It's a shame but I won't be using them much. If they offered a fixed-cable version I would buy them.



I have no problem with the RY4S Plus.. the stems are fine for me... just depends on the persons ear anatomy.  Overall though I actually prefer fixed cables on most buds.  MMCX can be fiddly.


HighLevelDemon said:


> Ok, you convinced me, also bought the Lucky Bag one then
> 
> Here's the link again for those who missed it: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000120453244.html



Wow... 510 sold already.

BTW, notice what I did with the link in your quote... taking out the part after the .html   All that other stuff.. and sometimes it is way longer than that is stuff that does who knows what... we are told to remove it.


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> I forgot about that one... excellent choice.  Love mine.. very secure and comfortable and sounds great... I just wish it did not have a mic.
> 
> I think I have forgotten another that might not have ever been added to my list... I need to check some of my cases.



I would have preferred without mic too, but for the price I got them I better not be complaining... 

Also, I received the 2 extra pairs of orange Kube 1.0 and am very happy to receive them today! I think the Kube 1.0 are still my favourite sounding earbuds in MX500 type shell.


----------



## mindblowing

I'm planning to buy mid-treble earbud under $80, currently I'm interested in ACG and toneking to400s, would you mind guys give me comparison of both?


----------



## Veyska

Probably unicorn hunting here, but apparently I'm feeling masochistic and can't let go of this notion...

I keep eyeing the Smabat but it costs way too much for a curiosity gamble when I know earbuds don't work very well (if at all, oftentimes) for me, but is there a model out there that's basically the PT15 but a mm or two smaller?  MMCX and not the sort where it's an adapter shoved into a stem, sounds reasonably good (no real preference for signature long's it's reasonably cohesive and not particularly unbalanced), and doesn't cost tons...


----------



## csglinux

I got this interesting little email in my inbox a couple of days ago:



> *Jim NiceHCK*: Hi, old friends,
> Only need $7.99(no mic)/$8.99(with mic)/:000, a new amazing earbud is coming, for AliExpress august BIG SALE lucky bag.
> 
> Mr ClieOS of the Head-fi Forum is an expert in terms of earbuds.
> ...



So first of all, congrats@ClieOS for being expert/infamous enough to be used by Aliexpress to hawk their new earbuds  Secondly, is it true? Do you consider these new earbuds to be worthy of a $28/005 price tag? (Which, BTW, I calculate as only $5.60. So if my math is correct, they're hedging their bets a bit.) There's no image of the earbud on the site, so I've no idea what I'd be buying here. Anybody else pulled the trigger on these?

I'm always on the lookout for an earbud that I'd like the sound of more than my Shozy BK Stardust. I've not found one yet, but I would like to put the new Moondrop Chaconne up against it in an A/B shootout at some point. (If anybody else has already made that comparison, I'd love to hear your thoughts too.)


----------



## robar (Aug 30, 2019)

csglinux said:


> I got this interesting little email in my inbox a couple of days ago:
> 
> So first of all, congrats@ClieOS for being expert/infamous enough to be used by Aliexpress to hawk their new earbuds  Secondly, is it true? Do you consider these new earbuds to be worthy of a $28/005 price tag? (Which, BTW, I calculate as only $5.60. So if my math is correct, they're hedging their bets a bit.) There's no image of the earbud on the site, so I've no idea what I'd be buying here. Anybody else pulled the trigger on these?
> 
> I'm always on the lookout for an earbud that I'd like the sound of more than my Shozy BK Stardust. I've not found one yet, but I would like to put the new Moondrop Chaconne up against it in an A/B shootout at some point. (If anybody else has already made that comparison, I'd love to hear your thoughts too.)


This is a lucky bag sale which means you can order it for cheap without knowing what's inside. After the sale it will be available normally for about 2x price. This seems to be a pretty effective means to hype and sell hundreds of earbuds in few days. Previous lucky bag was ME80 and maybe EB2 if I recall correctly. We don't know about these buds anything except that they're smaller than mx500, 32ohms and probably plastic. (last occasion it was explicitly mentioned that the shell is metal, so now it's probably not) I'm still thinking about it, as I'm always on the hunt for small shell earbuds, but I've just ordered SR2 recently so I'm not that keen on buying yet another bud. But for this price it's probably worth it even for DIY parts, as I'm sure it will be a full package with decent cable and drivers plus accessories etc. Any guesses what shell it uses? Wanna bet?  I think it'll be yuin pk shell or something similar. (something like Q39/Monk Lite would be awesome)


----------



## Willber

csglinux said:


> Anybody else pulled the trigger on these?


Yes, 560 people so far.


----------



## Pictograms

Veyska said:


> Probably unicorn hunting here, but apparently I'm feeling masochistic and can't let go of this notion...
> 
> I keep eyeing the Smabat but it costs way too much for a curiosity gamble when I know earbuds don't work very well (if at all, oftentimes) for me, but is there a model out there that's basically the PT15 but a mm or two smaller?  MMCX and not the sort where it's an adapter shoved into a stem, sounds reasonably good (no real preference for signature long's it's reasonably cohesive and not particularly unbalanced), and doesn't cost tons...


I have a pair of Svara L I don’t like, if you want them you can have them if you want to pay shipping. I’m in Canada so don’t know how worthwhile that is.


----------



## waynes world

Pictograms said:


> I have a pair of Svara L I don’t like, if you want them you can have them if you want to pay shipping. I’m in Canada so don’t know how worthwhile that is.



What don't you like about them? Are they they 32ohm version?


----------



## Pictograms

waynes world said:


> What don't you like about them? Are they they 32ohm version?


Yep, 32 ohm. I don’t like the fit, I don’t like the over ear style. They have just been sitting in my drawer for the last year


----------



## waynes world

Pictograms said:


> Yep, 32 ohm. I don’t like the fit, I don’t like the over ear style. They have just been sitting in my drawer for the last year



Gotcha. Fit (or lack thereof) can be a dealbreaker. I sometimes wear them down to help with the fit, but I do have more of a challenge with them than other buds.


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Gotcha. Fit (or lack thereof) can be a dealbreaker. I sometimes wear them down to help with the fit, but I do have more of a challenge with them than other buds.



I had to finally go ahead and add donut foams to the full foams on my Smabat which I think is the exact same form factor.  They feel better and seem a bit fuller sounding.


----------



## mochill

New **** earbud out on AliExpress , I forgot the name


----------



## Kumonomukou (Aug 30, 2019)

mochill said:


> New **** earbud out on AliExpress , I forgot the name



You mean Sen*** KP110? They're on the market for a few months now. There's only one store sells them on Ali. It's currently on sale for $68. You can bump them to 60 with coupon. They looked interesting, the design is probably inspired by JVC HA-FW10000 + BGVP Dx3s.

I didn't pull the trigger because of concern over large drivers and the overall build. I had their **** and PT15 in the past. They were pretty good value buy, but I wasn't particular a big fan of their coatings plus their QC on MMCX connector is...meh





*Image credited to an anonymous buyer on **** official store taobao Intl.


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 30, 2019)

Veyska said:


> Probably unicorn hunting here, but apparently I'm feeling masochistic and can't let go of this notion...
> 
> I keep eyeing the Smabat but it costs way too much for a curiosity gamble when I know earbuds don't work very well (if at all, oftentimes) for me, but is there a model out there that's basically the PT15 but a mm or two smaller?  MMCX and not the sort where it's an adapter shoved into a stem, sounds reasonably good (no real preference for signature long's it's reasonably cohesive and not particularly unbalanced), and doesn't cost tons...



Not that I'm aware of. There was a Svara-M at one point iirc which was a smaller Svara-L, which is the same form factor as the ST-10 (Svara became Smabat).

PT15 is the cheapest earbud of the mmcx & 16.8mm dia (15.4mm driver) that I know of.

There is the EBX which is smaller than even the PK/yuin shell buds at 15.9mm. They are somewhat hefty, as they are metal and not a small housing. In the same $ range as the ST-10. Relatively balanced across low/mid/high but more forward than I preferred.

The ACG is even smaller at 15.75mm dia, but the housing is thicker. Lacks bass unless you get a really good seal. If I touch them lightly, just enough to seal the foam then they have plenty. Just wearing them they are bass light, without EQ. Ymmv.


Unfortunately short stem MMCX earbuds don't have the hugest selection. Hopefully that changes. It's my favorite form factor.


As far as the ST-10, its still on sale for a few hours. Great deal if you are able to apply some coupons using the AE app.


----------



## mochill

Kumonomukou said:


> You mean Sen*** KP110? They're on the market for a few months now. There's only one store sells them on Ali. It's currently on sale for $68. You can bump them to 60 with coupon. They looked interesting, the design is probably inspired by JVC HA-FW10000 + BGVP Dx3s.
> 
> I didn't pull the trigger because of concern over large drivers and the overall build. I had their **** and PT15 in the past. They were pretty good value buy, but I wasn't particular a big fan of their coatings plus their QC on MMCX connector is...meh
> 
> ...


----------



## uziyourillusion

Hey guys, Can I get an earbud recommendation for my Nintendo Switch? My budget is around $100-150 and would prefer something that doesn't need to be amped to get decent volume, I'll be relying entirely on my Switch or Galaxy S10+ to drive them. My favorite headphones are the 598s, so, the closest sounding pair to that would be ideal. Thanks!


----------



## jogawag (Aug 31, 2019)

csglinux said:


> I got this interesting little email in my inbox a couple of days ago:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I recommend you Dragon2 +, which has a very clear sound on a wide sound stage.


----------



## tnelmo

Do any of you know how the Lucky Bag buds are tuned, based on @ClieOS  preferences?  Might they be heavy bass, or leaning toward sparkly treble?


----------



## jogawag (Sep 1, 2019)

tnelmo said:


> Do any of you know how the Lucky Bag buds are tuned, based on @ClieOS  preferences?  Might they be heavy bass, or leaning toward sparkly treble?



According to Mr. ClieOS's answer to the question, the Shell is "small". Perhaps I think the Shell is Yuin PK type.
So I think it doesn't have heavy bass. I heard that vocals are good.


----------



## robar

So, any info about when will be the reveal of this lucky bag? It's September already (especially in China) and the sale is still on. Or they will keep on selling these as long as people buy it?


----------



## ClieOS

tnelmo said:


> Do any of you know how the Lucky Bag buds are tuned, based on @ClieOS  preferences?  Might they be heavy bass, or leaning toward sparkly treble?



My advice to NiceHCK is for something more mainstream, so don't expect anything too extreme. However, I haven't actually heard the final production as well, so it might not be complete the same as what I have heard on the prototypes.


----------



## groucho69

ClieOS said:


> My advice to NiceHCK is for something more mainstream, so don't expect anything too extreme. However, I haven't actually heard the final production as well, so it might not be complete the same as what I have heard on the prototypes.



No snakes were used in the tuning of this bud.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Sep 1, 2019)

jogawag said:


> So I think it doesn't have heavy bass. I heard that vocals are good.



Doesn't have bass? Chinese garbage.  Good earbuds should have a high low mid and well balanced. In vain I seduced again on this bag. The past was bad ME80 not a universal earbud for rock/metal and electronic is not configured, only for fans of Celine Dion probably


----------



## mbwilson111

groucho69 said:


> No snakes were used in the tuning of this bud.



It was tuned pre-snake.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

groucho69 said:


> No snakes were used in the tuning of this bud.


----------



## mbwilson111

Alex.Grimm said:


> Doesn't have bass. Chinese garbage.  Good earbuds should have a high low mid and well balanced. In vain I seduced again on this bag. The past was bad ME80 not a universal earbud for rock/metal and electronic is not configured, only for fans of Celine Dion probably



Why such a negative attitude?  You are saying that if something does not have massive bass that makes it garbage?  Nobody said there will be no bass.  I expect that whatever it is, it will be well balanced.  A good all rounder.

I am not a Celine Dion fan... lol.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Hate Celine Dion, but Loreena McKennit sounds dope on ME80.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 1, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Hate Celine Dion, but Loreena McKennit sounds dope on ME80.



Love her!  My only problem with the ME80 is they are a bit big for my ears.  I can use them but my ears are a little sore after.

Edited to add:

Besides the Fukubukuro (lucky bag) bud I did order a couple of others during the sale.  

The Toneking TO180 that I have had my eye one for  a long time but never ordered because I thought my Toneking Ting was too big for me and this would be the same.  Turns out that the Ting does fit me.  I got it out the other night and it fit perfectly and sounded great.  I think I know what happened.  The Ting arrived in early 2018 when I was in the middle of some painful dental work which was also causing ear pain.  I probably had some swelling that I was unaware of.   Now I realize that this Toneking form factor fits me well and I am looking forward to the TO180.  I got it for $40.

I also have that Chitty DIY MMCX bud on the way and am looking forward to seeing how he has tuned that.  I got the transparent one.  I don't have many transparent buds and I do like them.  I like seeing what is inside.  I wish it had been more heavily discounted during the sale but he never knocks much off.  I paid $22.50 so I really hope it is good.    The RY4S Plus MMCX was much less expensive and is excellent.


----------



## NStef

Are we allowed to ask questions about vendors? I don't want to cause any problems. The ear buds that look interesting to me are only available on-line and mostly on websites I've never heard of.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

mbwilson111 said:


> Love her!  My only problem with the ME80 is they are a bit big for my ears.  I can use them but my ears are a little sore after.
> 
> Edited to add:
> 
> ...


The RY4S Plus is awesome. Its the one I grab almost 90% of the time as its cheap, easily replaceable and handles just about everything I throw at it. Sounds great to me.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

NStef said:


> Are we allowed to ask questions about vendors? I don't want to cause any problems. The ear buds that look interesting to me are only available on-line and mostly on websites I've never heard of.


Absolutely. Ask away.


----------



## NStef

I haven't decided what I really want yet, so I might be getting a little ahead of myself but for instance the Rose Technology products seem to be only available at Penon Audio.  There is another site called aliexpress.   Where are these vendors located?  Are they reputable, honest, approachable with questions?   Are there any other vendors I should look into?

Thanks.


----------



## DBaldock9

NStef said:


> I haven't decided what I really want yet, so I might be getting a little ahead of myself but for instance the Rose Technology products seem to be only available at Penon Audio.  There is another site called aliexpress.   Where are these vendors located?  Are they reputable, honest, approachable with questions?   Are there any other vendors I should look into?
> 
> Thanks.



Alibaba.com is a giant platform for global wholesale trade, serving millions of buyers and suppliers around the world. So the users are mainly manufacturers, trading companies, or resellers who trade in large order quantities.

AliExpress.com was created by Alibaba as a retail marketplace, offering quality products at factory prices in small quantity. Your order amount can be as low as 1 item and you can pay safely using Buyer Protection service.  It's made up of small businesses in China and other locations, such as Singapore, that offer products to international online buyers.

Some of the AliExpress vendors also have "shops" on Amazon, and ship from distribution points in either China or the USA.


----------



## waynes world

Answer: I found a pair of white buds in the drawer. Nice cable, but very generic looking shells with no identifiers. For the life of me, I couldn't remember what they were. I plugged them into my amp and holy crap they sound good. What the heck are they? Then the lightbulb went off and I realized they are my Willsound MK2 rev2's. I had lent them to a friend for a while, and then I received a bunch of new buds, so the MK2's have been out of circulation (& consciousness lol) for a while.

Question: How do you know when you have too many earbuds? 

Or possibly and alternate question: How do you know when you're getteing old lol!


----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> Answer: I found a pair of white buds in the drawer. Nice cable, but very generic looking shells with no identifiers. For the life of me, I couldn't remember what they were. I plugged them into my amp and holy crap they sound good. What the heck are they? Then the lightbulb went off and I realized they are my Willsound MK2 rev2's. I had lent them to a friend for a while, and then I received a bunch of new buds, so the MK2's have been out of circulation (& consciousness lol) for a while.
> 
> Question: How do you know when you have too many earbuds?
> 
> Or possibly and alternate question: How do you know when you're getteing old lol!




Photograph each set of your earbuds / earphones, and save the image with an appropriate filename, and nice descriptive Meta Data.
Then write on a Post-It Note (placed where you're sure to see it), where you saved the image files...


----------



## groucho69

waynes world said:


> Answer: I found a pair of white buds in the drawer. Nice cable, but very generic looking shells with no identifiers. For the life of me, I couldn't remember what they were. I plugged them into my amp and holy crap they sound good. What the heck are they? Then the lightbulb went off and I realized they are my Willsound MK2 rev2's. I had lent them to a friend for a while, and then I received a bunch of new buds, so the MK2's have been out of circulation (& consciousness lol) for a while.
> 
> Question: How do you know when you have too many earbuds?
> 
> Or possibly and alternate question: How do you know when you're getteing old lol!



When you find a memory course on cassettes that you know you never listened to and cannot recall when you bought them?


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Answer: I found a pair of white buds in the drawer. Nice cable, but very generic looking shells with no identifiers. For the life of me, I couldn't remember what they were. I plugged them into my amp and holy crap they sound good. What the heck are they? Then the lightbulb went off and I realized they are my Willsound MK2 rev2's. I had lent them to a friend for a while, and then I received a bunch of new buds, so the MK2's have been out of circulation (& consciousness lol) for a while.
> 
> Question: How do you know when you have too many earbuds?
> 
> Or possibly and alternate question: How do you know when you're getteing old lol!



Always keep each one in a case with a label on it.  We would be in so much trouble by now if we did not do that.  

Also add a few descriptive details when you list them in your profile.


----------



## NStef

DBaldock9 said:


> Alibaba.com is a giant platform for global wholesale trade, serving millions of buyers and suppliers around the world. So the users are mainly manufacturers, trading companies, or resellers who trade in large order quantities.
> 
> AliExpress.com was created by Alibaba as a retail marketplace, offering quality products at factory prices in small quantity. Your order amount can be as low as 1 item and you can pay safely using Buyer Protection service.  It's made up of small businesses in China and other locations, such as Singapore, that offer products to international online buyers.
> 
> Some of the AliExpress vendors also have "shops" on Amazon, and ship from distribution points in either China or the USA.



*DBaldock9, thanks for the response.*


----------



## ClieOS

OurArt QJ21, will be released in 2~3 weeks. MSRP around US$240. Those of you in US probably need to add another 10% of tariff


----------



## jogawag (Sep 2, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Besides the Fukubukuro (lucky bag) bud I did order a couple of others during the sale.
> 
> The Toneking TO180 that I have had my eye one for  a long time but never ordered because I thought my Toneking Ting was too big for me and this would be the same.  Turns out that the Ting does fit me.  I got it out the other night and it fit perfectly and sounded great.  I think I know what happened.  The Ting arrived in early 2018 when I was in the middle of some painful dental work which was also causing ear pain.  I probably had some swelling that I was unaware of.   Now I realize that this Toneking form factor fits me well and I am looking forward to the TO180.  I got it for $40.
> 
> I also have that Chitty DIY MMCX bud on the way and am looking forward to seeing how he has tuned that.  I got the transparent one.  I don't have many transparent buds and I do like them.  I like seeing what is inside.  I wish it had been more heavily discounted during the sale but he never knocks much off.  I paid $22.50 so I really hope it is good.    The RY4S Plus MMCX was much less expensive and is excellent.



I did not order the Fukubukuro (lucky bag) earbuds, because I think this is yuin PK type earbuds.
Instead, I have ordered Chitty DIY PK1 (red film) MMCX earbuds and am looking forward to hearing how this is sound.
I have decided to order this earbuds because it seemed easy to use as the protruding part of the jack of MMCX is short.
I persuaded Chitty over time, so I paid only $50.00.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32950062232.html


----------



## Mhog55

ClieOS said:


> OurArt QJ21, will be released in 2~3 weeks. MSRP around US$240. Those of you in US probably need to add another 10% of tariff


Those look nice. But 240 bucks for earbuds... I don't know


----------



## waynes world

ClieOS said:


> OurArt QJ21, will be released in 2~3 weeks. MSRP around US$240. Those of you in US probably need to add another 10% of tariff



And those of use in Canada get to add another 30% for exchange. Grrr! Thankfully your cheapo recommendations suit me just fine


----------



## assassin10000

ClieOS said:


> OurArt QJ21, will be released in 2~3 weeks. MSRP around US$240. Those of you in US probably need to add another 10% of tariff



Well, at least they went to a fancier wheel design to justify the price increase . 

Interested in impressions. Any description of the sound from them?


----------



## chinmie

Alex.Grimm said:


> Doesn't have bass? Chinese garbage.  Good earbuds should have a high low mid and well balanced. In vain I seduced again on this bag. The past was bad ME80 not a universal earbud for rock/metal and electronic is not configured, only for fans of Celine Dion probably



how much bass can be considered "good"?
does anyone who likes Celine Dion considered "bad"?

is it considered blasphemy if i like Korn, Deadmau5, SOAD, and put them in the same listening session with KD Lang, Amber Rubarth, and Celine Dion?

am i the only one who thinks that the ME80 not lacking any bass at all?

do i need to throw away my ER4PT (which certainly has less bass than the ME80) in the trash?


----------



## ClieOS




----------



## courierdriver

BadReligionPunk said:


>



Dammit! Now that I've got that "earbug", I'm gonna have to download and listen to it tonight. Along with the rest of her library. Yer killin me here! LOL!


----------



## courierdriver

mbwilson111 said:


> Always keep each one in a case with a label on it.  We would be in so much trouble by now if we did not do that.
> 
> Also add a few descriptive details when you list them in your profile.


Yes...whenever you get new buds or iems...put them in a separate case. They are really cheap nowadays and you can get multi packs for less than $10. I've bought many within the past few months, as my collection grows. I really gotta get on to labeling them though. Right now, I just grab whatever case I see and that's the toy I play with that night. Lol!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

courierdriver said:


> Dammit! Now that I've got that "earbug", I'm gonna have to download and listen to it tonight. Along with the rest of her library. Yer killin me here! LOL!


 I was like 12 when Forever Your Girl came out, and I was smitten. Very catchy tunes and I thought she was hot. I just recently purchased her greatest hits cd. Not ashamed to admit it even though I feel like I will be letting down loomisjohnson again with my questionable music taste.


----------



## GREQ

ClieOS said:


> OurArt QJ21, will be released in 2~3 weeks. MSRP around US$240. Those of you in US probably need to add another 10% of tariff



I can't be the only one who see them like this surely...


----------



## rkw

ClieOS said:


> OurArt QJ21, will be released in 2~3 weeks. MSRP around US$240. Those of you in US probably need to add another 10% of tariff


Seems to be already on sale in China.
https://www.1688.com/huo/detail-602240535976.html
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...o-detail-top.3.2adbb950X3Xxg9&id=602240535976


----------



## golov17

waynes world said:


> Answer: I found a pair of white buds in the drawer. Nice cable, but very generic looking shells with no identifiers. For the life of me, I couldn't remember what they were. I plugged them into my amp and holy crap they sound good. What the heck are they? Then the lightbulb went off and I realized they are my Willsound MK2 rev2's. I had lent them to a friend for a while, and then I received a bunch of new buds, so the MK2's have been out of circulation (& consciousness lol) for a while.
> 
> Question: How do youOTE="waynes world, post: 15161384, member: 333894"]Answer: I found a pair of white buds in the drawer. Nice cable, but very generic looking shells with no identifiers. For the life of me, I couldn't remember what they were. I plugged them into my amp and holy crap they sound good. What the heck are they? Then the lightbulb went off and I realized they are my Willsound MK2 rev2's. I had lent them to a friend for a while, and then I received a bunch of new buds, so the MK2's have been out of circulation (& consciousness lol) for a while.
> 
> ...


----------



## subwoof3r

ClieOS said:


>


Smabta or Smabat ?


----------



## ClieOS

rkw said:


> Seems to be already on sale in China.
> https://www.1688.com/huo/detail-602240535976.html
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...o-detail-top.3.2adbb950X3Xxg9&id=602240535976



Pre-sale.

I asked around, the actual production isn't ready yet.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Sep 2, 2019)

chinmie said:


> how much bass can be considered "good"?



Like The Kube v1, Willsound MK2, Smabat ST-10, Penon BS1, VE Zen 2


----------



## j4100

golov17 said:


>


I fear I may be too late to do this. I keep finding buds that I have no idea what they are.


----------



## subwoof3r

jogawag said:


> I did not order the Fukubukuro (lucky bag) earbuds, because I think this is yuin PK type earbuds.
> Instead, I have ordered Chitty DIY PK1 (red film) MMCX earbuds and am looking forward to hearing how this is sound.
> I have decided to order this earbuds because it seemed easy to use as the protruding part of the jack of MMCX is short.
> I persuaded Chitty over time, so I paid only $50.00.
> ...


The idea is good for a non-DIYer, but one thing that hurts me a bit is the fact that on these shells you can't make a proper bass hole tune (as MMCX pin takes the whole hole), resulting a different sound we can have on Yuin PK shells type.
Otherwise, those included red film 150 ohm drivers are excellent for 14.8mm (still my best, atm).


----------



## jogawag (Sep 2, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> The idea is good for a non-DIYer, but one thing that hurts me a bit is the fact that on these shells you can't make a proper bass hole tune (as MMCX pin takes the whole hole), resulting a different sound we can have on Yuin PK shells type.
> Otherwise, those included red film 150 ohm drivers are excellent for 14.8mm (still my best, atm).



I see that “can't make a proper bass hole tune”. I didn't realize it.
I pray that this has the bass of Shozy Cygnus or SR2 16ohm level...


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 2, 2019)

GREQ said:


> I can't be the only one who see them like this surely...



I think that was the intention.  Reminds me of my 1More E1008.   Not my photo.  I wish I could take a photo like this!







j4100 said:


> I fear I may be too late to do this. I keep finding buds that I have no idea what they are.



Uh-Oh.   Start with the ones that you do know and lable those.  Then maybe little by little you will figure out the others.

Then post photos of a few and ask if someone here recognizes them.  At least it is easy to recognize a Kube


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> Uh-Oh.   Start with the ones that you do know and lable those.  Then maybe little by little you will figure out the others.
> 
> Then post photos of a few and ask if someone here recognizes them.  At least it is easy to recognize a Kube



I feel like a traitor. I haven't bought anything this year, not even a Kube or a lucky bag 

I do read the thread though!


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> I feel like a traitor. I haven't bought anything this year, not even a Kube or a lucky bag
> 
> I do read the thread though!



How could you have resisted?  BTW, not too late for the lucky bag... there are still some remaining...the offer did not end with the end of the August sale.


----------



## Kumonomukou

GREQ said:


> I can't be the only one who see them like this surely...



Yeah That's what I'm talking about! Ironically they cost just about a cheap set of tires /Cough* Cough*


----------



## phthora

DBaldock9 said:


> Photograph each set of your earbuds / earphones, and save the image with an appropriate filename, and nice descriptive Meta Data.
> Then write on a Post-It Note (placed where you're sure to see it), where you saved the image files...





mbwilson111 said:


> Always keep each one in a case with a label on it.  We would be in so much trouble by now if we did not do that.
> 
> Also add a few descriptive details when you list them in your profile.





courierdriver said:


> Yes...whenever you get new buds or iems...put them in a separate case. They are really cheap nowadays and you can get multi packs for less than $10. I've bought many within the past few months, as my collection grows. I really gotta get on to labeling them though. Right now, I just grab whatever case I see and that's the toy I play with that night. Lol!



All great advice! I also have started to add in some brief instructions on how best to fit set of earbuds. Too often I'd pull out an older pair and have to spend 15 minutes adjusting them in ear to get the fit just right.


----------



## courierdriver

BadReligionPunk said:


> I was like 12 when Forever Your Girl came out, and I was smitten. Very catchy tunes and I thought she was hot. I just recently purchased her greatest hits cd. Not ashamed to admit it even though I feel like I will be letting down loomisjohnson again with my questionable music taste.


I downloaded this album on Amazon Prime Music tonight, as well as some Janet Jackson to boot!. Might as well, since these two had some major words/rivalry back in the day. Me, I enjoyed both of their music. Oh, the memories of a young me bustin a move on the dancefloor back in the late 80's and early 90's. I had alot of fun listening to this music again last night. Iems of the evening were the TFZ NO.3. Great presentation of what was called "house music" back in those days. DJ's in dance clubs would combine the two and would create a mix that lasted for 15 minutes sometimes. A local radio station in the city I lived in when I was in my late teens and early 20's, used to have a killer DJ who broadcast live every Friday or Saturday night from 11pm till 4 am from whatever dance club was hosting him. I had at least 50 mixed tapes/cassettes that I recorded of his gigs. So much fun!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

courierdriver said:


> I downloaded this album on Amazon Prime Music tonight, as well as some Janet Jackson to boot!. Might as well, since these two had some major words/rivalry back in the day. Me, I enjoyed both of their music. Oh, the memories of a young me bustin a move on the dancefloor back in the late 80's and early 90's. I had alot of fun listening to this music again last night. Iems of the evening were the TFZ NO.3. Great presentation of what was called "house music" back in those days. DJ's in dance clubs would combine the two and would create a mix that lasted for 15 minutes sometimes. A local radio station in the city I lived in when I was in my late teens and early 20's, used to have a killer DJ who broadcast live every Friday or Saturday night from 11pm till 4 am from whatever dance club was hosting him. I had at least 50 mixed tapes/cassettes that I recorded of his gigs. So much fun!



RY4S PLUS killing it today as Paula got me back into some old school dance stuff today. Man here are 2 of my favorite old school funk, soul songs.


----------



## courierdriver

BadReligionPunk said:


> RY4S PLUS killing it today as Paula got me back into some old school dance stuff today. Man here are 2 of my favorite old school funk, soul songs.



I've got the RY4S PLUS MMCX too. Sadly, they aren't fitting my ears. I bought some donut foams and some ear "wings" from Aliexpress a few days ago, when they had their sale. I'll be waiting for a while for them though. The donuts are coming via Aliexpress Standard shipping, so I should get them in 15 to 30 days. Wings will be alot longer, since I wasn't willing to pay an extra $7+ per set of S,L and will ship with China Post with no tracking. In the brief time I've had the RY4S Plus Mmcx, I can see the potential of them...but I can't get them to sound good without me pressing them into my ears continuously. I've had problems in the past with fitting buds, but I took a chance with this set, hoping they would work and fit better for me. With the stock foam covers, they fall out easily, just like every other bud I've ever tried. I'm not giving up on this set yet, tho. Gotta be patient and wait for the donuts and wings to arrive. Hopefully, they will make this set useable for me.


----------



## courierdriver

BadReligionPunk said:


> RY4S PLUS killing it today as Paula got me back into some old school dance stuff today. Man here are 2 of my favorite old school funk, soul songs.



Oh, yeah man! Totally remember those two. Jane Child grooves me a bit more than Lisa Stansfield. My favorite is Jody Watley though. She did a duet with George Michael called "Got to learn to say No". I've got that album ripped to WAV onto my SD card on my phone. I use it alot to evaluate SQ on my gear, and just for fun.


----------



## 40760

Couldn't help buy ordered a pair of Shozy Cygnus and Hiegi foams after the B.K was sent back for repairs...


----------



## phixion (Sep 3, 2019)

My luckybag arrived today, NICEHCK B40...



Spoiler


----------



## mbwilson111

phixion said:


> Mine arrived today, NICEHCK B40...



I want to resist opening the spoiler... I think mine will be delivered tomorrow or the next day.  It is in the country.

Where are you located?


----------



## phixion (Sep 3, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I want to resist opening the spoiler... I think mine will be delivered tomorrow or the next day.  It is in the country.
> 
> Where are you located?



Shropshire, UK.

I'm no expert but they aren't hugely bass heavy, they actually sound quite bright and forward.


----------



## mbwilson111

phixion said:


> Shropshire, UK.



I think those of us in the UK do get these things more quickly than some.


----------



## phixion

mbwilson111 said:


> I think those of us in the UK do get these things more quickly than some.



Yep, I live quite close to the Royal Mail Distribution Centre too.

I also received my RY4S and RY4S MMCX


----------



## Alex.Grimm

phixion said:


> I also received my RY4S and RY4S MMCX



Can you compare NICEHCK B40 and RY4S, RY4S MMCX ?


----------



## mbwilson111

phixion said:


> Yep, I live quite close to the Royal Mail Distribution Centre too.
> 
> I also received my RY4S and RY4S MMCX



I find it overwhelming to get more than one delivered in a day.   Hard to know what to check out first... I try to take my time... sometimes waiting a day or two in between.



Alex.Grimm said:


> Can you compare NICEHCK B40 and RY4S, RY4S MMCX ?



Give him time... lol.


----------



## jogawag (Sep 3, 2019)

phixion said:


> My luckybag arrived today, NICEHCK B40...
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler



Oh NICEHCK B40... My prophecy was...
Maybe that Driver is... 



Spoiler



Oh NICEHCK B40... My prophecy was right.
Maybe this Driver is something I know as SR2 or SR Pro 16ohm?


----------



## 40760

Oh man... and now I have ordered the lucky bag too after seeing the spoiler...


----------



## robar (Sep 3, 2019)

I'll be interested in comparisons, especially with RY4S (UE), Fengru Silver and SR2 16ohms. For me at least 2-3 weeks will pass before I get it.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 3, 2019)

robar said:


> I'll be interested in comparisons, especially with RY4S (UE), Fengru Silver and SR2 16ohms. For me at least 2-3 weeks will pass before I get it.



You just gave away the spoiler.. some of us wanted to be surprised when we opened the box.

edit.
Some editing done by both of us... this will be difficult for people to not spoil the surprise... although I know some don't like surprises and want to know every little thing ahead of time.


----------



## robar

mbwilson111 said:


> You just gave away the spoiler.. some of us wanted to be surprised when we opened the box.


Oh so sorry, forgot to put spoiler on. I deleted it so maybe if you take out the quotation no one else will see it


----------



## mbwilson111

robar said:


> Oh so sorry, forgot to put spoiler on. I deleted it so maybe if you take out the quotation no one else will see it



I did.


----------



## mbwilson111

jogawag said:


> My prophecy is...
> Maybe that Driver is...



We do know one thing about the driver because it was in the specifications.  It is 32 ohm.  I think I will stay out of this thread until mine gets here.


----------



## robar

Spoiler



So, my guess was also right then, but it wasn't much of a surprise really, as this shell is basically the only cheap small generic shell with good acoustics and standard driver size. Also Nicehck pk2 is discontinued, something needed to take its place I guess. I'll be interested in your comparisons and findings, as the shipping will take much longer for me. I'm not a fan of bright forward sound but let's hope it's not peaky and gets deeper with burn in. The cable and accessories look nice so good value for the money at least


----------



## phixion

To be honest after trying all these earbuds the conclusion I've come to is that earbuds are just not for me, the only pair I can sort of getting to fit is the Qian39.

I may just sell all of these off as a job lot, I haven't really used them as they just don't fit well enough and constantly fall out.


----------



## mbwilson111

phixion said:


> Shropshire, UK.
> 
> I'm no expert but they aren't hugely bass heavy, they actually sound quite bright and forward.



Is that with foams on them?  You need a seal.

Most buds sound like that to me without foams.


----------



## phthora

phixion said:


> To be honest after trying all these earbuds the conclusion I've come to is that earbuds are just not for me, the only pair I can sort of getting to fit is the Qian39.
> 
> I may just sell all of these off as a job lot, I haven't really used them as they just don't fit well enough and constantly fall out.



Try looping them over your ears and wearing them cord up, like an IEM. That tends to be much more secure and will increase the bass most of the time too.


----------



## Kumonomukou (Sep 3, 2019)

.......I clicked the spolier, after 30 seconds of hesitation.

Oh well, I have to say I'm tiny bit disappointed for the shell, especially if you already have a pair of buds with the same design in the past. I was expecting something like a smaller version of ME80, but I guess at least we've got what we paid for. This is my first ever Fukubukuro purchase, and it ends with a classic.

I know it's about the sound that really matters. Let's see what they've got once I get my hands on them.


----------



## robar (Sep 3, 2019)

Kumonomukou said:


> .......I clicked the spolier, after 30 seconds of hesitation.
> 
> Oh well, I have to say I'm a tiny bit disappointed for the shell, especially if you already have a pair of buds with the same design in the past. I was expecting something like a smaller version of ME80, but I guess at least we've got what we paid for. This is my first ever Fukubukuro purchase, and it ends with a classic. Not bad, not bad at all!
> I know it's about the sound that really matters. Let's see what they've got once I get my hands on them.


For the ME80 it was stated even in the lucky bag description that it uses a custom metal shell. It would have been a huge miss to leave out a selling point like this. This time there wasn't anything like that, just "classic modeling design", 



Spoiler



so it was quite obvious to me that it'll use a generic plastic shell. The only question was which. I've just ordered SR2 16ohms few days before the lucky bag, so it feels a bit redundant to me also. But if it can compete with RY4S UE or Qian69 than it's still a killer deal, I'm not a fan of the fit of mx500 shells or the sound of Q69.


----------



## HungryPanda

I just got my NiceHCK lucky bag and am actually impressed


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> I just got my NiceHCK lucky bag and am actually impressed



I have to wait until tomorrow


----------



## jogawag (Sep 3, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> I just got my NiceHCK lucky bag and am actually impressed


Please tell me how are you actually impressed.
Your post like above is leaving me unfinished with suffering...


----------



## ounwx

As resident n00b, I'm unfamiliar with this luckybag business... do those buds usually become more widely available at a higher price later on, or will they just disappear after this run?

If it's bright and forward, I'm willing to try it at $7.99, but more as a sampler to buy more pairs later if they're good.


----------



## HungryPanda

I find them quite balanced overall with a decent low end. More bass than I expected. I made a 32 ohm PK earbud that has plenty bass too


----------



## jogawag (Sep 3, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> I find them quite balanced overall with a decent low end. More bass than I expected. I made a 32 ohm PK earbud that has plenty bass too



32ohm PK is equivalent to PK3 ...
Now I bought lucky bag too.

What do you think of them compared to the SR2 16ohm's wide sound stage and bass?


----------



## jogawag

ounwx said:


> As resident n00b, I'm unfamiliar with this luckybag business... do those buds usually become more widely available at a higher price later on, or will they just disappear after this run?
> 
> If it's bright and forward, I'm willing to try it at $7.99, but more as a sampler to buy more pairs later if they're good.



Usually those lucky bag buds become more widely available at a higher price later on.


----------



## s8grave

Oh, okay, ordering second fukubukuro then)
Thank you for this thread, people)


----------



## fusinato

Just bought the lucky bag, based on the spoilers you guys gave. I only have MX500 buds, can't wait to try!


----------



## HeadlessChicken (Sep 3, 2019)

lucky bag has arrived safely! phew... not gonna spoil it for anybody with pics
gotta say that the quality of the included foams are quite suspect... the long term customers of this thread prolly have other foams, but would be good if the included foams were decent enough for newbies to get started


----------



## groucho69

HeadlessChicken said:


> lucky bag has arrived safely! phew... not gonna spoil it for anybody with pics
> gotta say that the quality of the included foams are quite suspect... the long term customers of this thread prolly have other foams, but would be good if the included foams were decent enough for newbies to get started



You will probably end up with various foams because some will work better on a particular model than others will for your tastes and ears. It is unlikely that one foam will always be the one you like best on all of your buds.


----------



## HungryPanda

Stock foams work well for me


----------



## mbwilson111

HeadlessChicken said:


> lucky bag has arrived safely! phew... not gonna spoil it for anybody with pics
> gotta say that the quality of the included foams are quite suspect... the long term customers of this thread prolly have other foams, but would be good if the included foams were decent enough for newbies to get started



I am patiently waiting for my lucky bag today.  No sign of the postman who normally would have been here two or three hours ago.  I think we have had substitute mailmen for a couple of weeks now... I hope our regular guy has not quit or retired.  He was great.  He would alway put things inside the outer door and sometimes even sign for us. He also knew not to ring the doorbell if we might still be sleeping after a night shift.  I don't want to have to train another one.

As for the foams.. .I have seen them because my husband's lucky bag arrived yesterday.   They seem fine to me.  You always have to gently stretch these things.  Takes me 20 minutes to put one on.  Takes him 2... lol.


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> Stock foams work well for me



I was typing my reply and did not see you had answered already  I just found them on your desk and I think they feel nice.  I might have to wait until you get home to put mine on... if the bud even gets here today.   Too bad I accidentally left my lucky bag in my cart for 12 hours before realizing I had forgotten to check out.  Ours might have been on the same plane if I had bought them when I thought I did.  I think I was too busy researching other sale items.


----------



## snip3r77

HungryPanda said:


> I just got my NiceHCK lucky bag and am actually impressed



how does this compared to me80 and ry4s mmcx ?


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> I was typing my reply and did not see you had answered already  I just found them on your desk and I think they feel nice.  I might have to wait until you get home to put mine on... if the bud even gets here today.   Too bad I accidentally left my lucky bag in my cart for 12 hours before realizing I had forgotten to check out.  Ours might have been on the same plane if I had bought them when I thought I did.  I think I was too busy researching other sale items.



I'm think I belong to those who wanted to know what the earbuds were like before ordering them, hence taking away the "surprise" from this lucky bag drop. The moment I could confirm they were PK shells, I ordered them last night and now the wait begins.

On the bright side, my repaired B.K was ready and shipped together with my new Cygnus and Hiegi foam order. The B.Ks were actually the culprit for me to rekindle my interest in PK type earbuds again...


----------



## HungryPanda

snip3r77 said:


> how does this compared to me80 and ry4s mmcx ?


l will say I have the ry4s plus and would prefer them first over the other two but ymmv


----------



## 40760

HungryPanda said:


> l will say I have the ry4s plus and would prefer them first over the other two but ymmv



I've have the RY4S Plus MMXC in the cart for a long time now. Will you consider them to have good sub bass? I'm looking for something along the line of Kube 1.0 in low end but with MMCX so I can swap out cables.


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> I've have the RY4S Plus MMXC in the cart for a long time now. Will you consider them to have good sub bass? I'm looking for something along the line of Kube 1.0 in low end but with MMCX so I can swap out cables.



If you are planning to swap out cables you need to consider the fragility of mmcx connectors compared to two pin.   With my mmcx buds and iems, once I decide on a cable I rarely remove it and change the cable.   Certainly no more than  a couple of times.  I would not want to constantly switch between differrent cables.  I am always a bit frightened when removing an mmcx cable.

I have a nice balanced cable on my RY4S Plus and if I want to use it with a non balanced source I have a short adapter cable... 2.5mm female single ended to 3.5mm male SE.


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> If you are planning to swap out cables you need to consider the fragility of mmcx connectors compared to two pin.   With my mmcx buds and iems, once I decide on a cable I rarely remove it and change the cable.   Certainly no more than  a couple of times.  I would not want to constantly switch between differrent cables.  I am always a bit frightened when removing an mmcx cable.
> 
> I have a nice balanced cable on my RY4S Plus and if I want to use it with a non balanced source I have a short adapter cable... 2.5mm female single ended to 3.5mm male SE.



I see... I'm actually not looking at swapping the cables frequently but more of when it gets faulty. I think that due to high humidity or sweat, the cable of my black Kube 1.0 which comes into contact with the skin has already started to harden and shine. I think the next stage will be the rubber insulation crumbling, just as how my older earphones failed from experience. I see this MMCX solution as a double edge sword as all my earbuds come with fixed cable.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 4, 2019)

palestofwhite said:


> I see... I'm actually not looking at swapping the cables frequently but more of when it gets faulty. I think that due to high humidity or sweat, the cable of my black Kube 1.0 which comes into contact with the skin has already started to harden and shine. I think the next stage will be the rubber insulation crumbling, just as how my older earphones failed from experience. I see this MMCX solution as a double edge sword as all my earbuds come with fixed cable.



That sounds like a good plan.  I think the connectors are good enough to withstand a few changes.  I just know that some people take  cables off every time to put the bud or iem away.  I would not do that.

I am not sure I remember where you are.  Not much humidity here.  You would probably laugh at what they call humid here.


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> That sounds like a good plan.  I think the connectors are good enough to withstand a few changes.  I just know that some people take  cables off every time to put the bud or iem away.  I would not do that.
> 
> I am not sure I remember where you are.  Not much humidity here.  You would probably laugh at what they call humid here.



I know it sounds crazy, but humidity here is all time hovering about 70% and sometimes above...  

If I had to choose, I would take 2-pin over MMCX. Do you happen to know if the fixed cable version of the RY4S Plus are actually similar sounding to the MMCX model? Maybe I should just go for that instead, because I just realised that the MMCX cables are sold separately and all my existing cables are 2-pin...


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> I know it sounds crazy, but humidity here is all time hovering about 70% and sometimes above...
> 
> If I had to choose, I would take 2-pin over MMCX. Do you happen to know if the fixed cable version of the RY4S Plus are actually similar sounding to the MMCX model? Maybe I should just go for that instead, because I just realised that the MMCX cables are sold separately and all my existing cables are 2-pin...



Is there a version of the RY4S Plus with fixed cables?  Which one were you thinking of?


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> Is there a version of the RY4S Plus with fixed cables?  Which one were you thinking of?



I think I might have gotten it wrong but they have the RY4S HI version... Not sure if they're same as the MMCX Plus though...


----------



## BadReligionPunk

palestofwhite said:


> I think I might have gotten it wrong but they have the RY4S HI version... Not sure if they're same as the MMCX Plus though...


I think the plus has a new driver. It sounds totally different then my ry4s UE. IMO much better sounding then the UE. No idea on the HI ver. though.


----------



## robar

BadReligionPunk said:


> I think the plus has a new driver. It sounds totally different then my ry4s UE. IMO much better sounding then the UE. No idea on the HI ver. though.


Wow, I thought UE and Plus sounds the same or the difference is minor due to the shell modification. (I only have UE) In what aspect do you find the Plus better? I suppose bass is bigger, but are the mids smoother more natural as well? My main problem with the UE is the thin, slightly metallic and peaky tonality. (can be fixed with EQ but it's cumbersome for me especially with Windows)


----------



## toear

palestofwhite said:


> I think I might have gotten it wrong but they have the RY4S HI version... Not sure if they're same as the MMCX Plus though...



The info I got from the seller was that the HI is the cabled version of the MMCX Plus. The HI/Plus version sounds 'better' than the UE. I have the UE version and love it. Just ordered the MMCX Plus version with 'fancy' cable because the Plus version has free shipping but the HI version charges and extra $4. I figured I would splurge and get detachable cables....


----------



## robar (Sep 4, 2019)

toear said:


> The info I got from the seller was that the HI is the cabled version of the MMCX Plus. The HI/Plus version sounds 'better' than the UE. I have the UE version and love it. Just ordered the MMCX Plus version with 'fancy' cable because the Plus version has free shipping but the HI version charges and extra $4. I figured I would splurge and get detachable cables....


It's weird I read comparisons between HI and UE in the past and people said they're basically the same. Also HI is cheaper than UE. I'm getting tired of this constant ambiguity with chinese products. Aren't all RY4S have the same driver, just with different tunings?


----------



## Willber

Luckybag landed. Lovely, like lots.


----------



## snowmind

Hello everyone, how pleased to find this centralized discussion of buds. I have RY4S common version (not UE / Plus), Qian69 and Qian25.

Qian25 is powerful and very dynamic, warm side of sound and neutral signature. I'm waiting for my lucky bag and the new neutral-tuned white Vido.


----------



## HungryPanda

Welcome to the thread


----------



## robar

snowmind said:


> Hello everyone, how pleased to find this centralized discussion of buds. I have RY4S common version (not UE / Plus), Qian69 and Qian25.
> 
> Qian25 is powerful and very dynamic, warm side of sound and neutral signature. I'm waiting for my lucky bag and the new neutral-tuned white Vido.


I love Qian25  FYI new white vido is basically the same as the old one, so v shaped bassy.. more balanced versions are y cable blue and probably red, black. Or is there a y-cable white also? I've never seen one


----------



## DBaldock9

snowmind said:


> Hello everyone, how pleased to find this centralized discussion of buds. I have RY4S common version (not UE / Plus), Qian69 and Qian25.
> 
> Qian25 is powerful and very dynamic, warm side of sound and neutral signature. I'm waiting for my lucky bag and the new neutral-tuned white Vido.



Welcome!  You're starting out with some very good, budget priced earbuds.


----------



## phthora

Willber said:


> Luckybag landed. Lovely, like lots.



Your alliteration is magnificent.


----------



## snowmind

robar said:


> I love Qian25  FYI new white vido is basically the same as the old one, so v shaped bassy.. more balanced versions are y cable blue and probably red, black. Or is there a y-cable white also? I've never seen one



Really, Qian25 is superb. I'm looking forward to knowing if the lucky bag can fight it.

Have the old blue Vido and don't like the sound very much, it has little definition and it sounds muffled. The new white Vido, if it is of good quality, neutral or even V-shaped, will be pleased.


----------



## snowmind

DBaldock9 said:


> Welcome!  You're starting out with some very good, budget priced earbuds.



Thanks, the discovery of the buds chi-fi market has become a new hobby for all of us.

Regards


----------



## HighLevelDemon (Sep 4, 2019)

robar said:


> I love Qian25  FYI new white vido is basically the same as the old one, so v shaped bassy.. more balanced versions are y cable blue and probably red, black. Or is there a y-cable white also? I've never seen one



Oh noes, so there are different Vido versions? Did anyone ever come across any fake Vido's?

Received:
Edifier H180
RY4S UE cable black
RY4S black NO Mic
RY4S Transparent-B

Not yet received:
Vido (generic blue one from here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33040901591.html )
Ollivan MS16
NICEHCK Lucky Bag

I also owned the Monk VE+ and (fake?) SHE3800 already. I can easily discard those because the Monk VE+ is too big (16mm) and the SHE3800 because it doesn't sound as nice as the others (still don't know where the real version can be obtained). So far the H180 is my favorite. The RY4S UE definitely has a different driver than the normal ones, but I'm not really impressed with any of them. Would burning them in make any difference?

The Vido might be too big for me if it's 16mm also. The RY4S are 15mm which is acceptable for me.


----------



## robar (Sep 4, 2019)

snowmind said:


> Really, Qian25 is superb. I'm looking forward to knowing if the lucky bag can fight it.
> 
> Have the old blue Vido and don't like the sound very much, it has little definition and it sounds muffled. The new white Vido, if it is of good quality, neutral or even V-shaped, will be pleased.


I have a Y-cable blue vido and I can agree it's kinda balanced but muffled and boxy


HighLevelDemon said:


> Oh noes, so there are different Vido versions? Did anyone ever come across any fake Vido's?
> 
> I ordered a generic blue one here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33040901591.html but it hasn't arrived yet.
> 
> ...


I've had 3 white vidos and one Y-cable blue so far. All of my whites came with that horrible J-cable and they sound similar. (typical vido sound - big bass recessed mids, sparkly but rolled off highs) In July I ordered a white and blue from E-tech store (under 2usd each) and the white was slightly more v shaped and the blue is kinda balanced but muffled and boxy, like snowmind said. I opened them and they have different tuning foams inside, blue has 2x thicker than white, otherwise look the same. Blue is basically an overdampened white, so both bass and treble are rolled off to bring out the so so mids. I'd buy blue Qian25 again anytime over these.


----------



## HighLevelDemon

robar said:


> I have a Y-cable blue vido and I can agree it's kinda balanced but muffled and boxy
> 
> I've had 3 white vidos and one Y-cable blue so far. All of my whites came with that horrible J-cable and they sound similar. (typical vido sound - big bass recessed mids, sparkly but rolled off highs) In July I ordered a white and blue from E-tech store (under 2usd each) and the white was slightly more v shaped and the blue is kinda balanced but muffled and boxy, like snowmind said. I opened them and they have different tuning foams inside, blue has 2x thicker than white, otherwise look the same.



Ok so the original bassy Vido's are definitely the one with the J-cable, and the Y-cable one might be fake?


----------



## robar (Sep 4, 2019)

HighLevelDemon said:


> Ok so the original bassy Vido's are definitely the one with the J-cable, and the Y-cable one might be fake?


No, it's not fake, just tuned differently by color. Interesting habit of chinese manufacturers, especially that they don't give any info about this. Vido is not the only one, I've heard that other earbuds have different tunings by color, too. This is why I always mention the color/variant I have, like blue Qian25, RY4S UE etc. The drivers are the same, if you put a blue driver into a white shell it'll sound exactly like a white vido. (because the tuning foams inside are glued onto the shell)


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> Luckybag landed. Lovely, like lots.



My lucky bag arrived a few hours ago but I have only had a little time with it.  Enough to know that it sounds great!   I don't know why someone thought it was bass light unless it was just not sealed in the ear enough.  I have a nice tight fit with the supplied foams and everything sounds as it should to me.


----------



## robar (Sep 4, 2019)

My latest batch of vidos. If you look closely you can see that blue vido has basically two layers of foam glued into the shell. This variant even had some glue for fixing the driver in place, I think it's because the blue driver barely snaps back with this much foam. Maybe the outer layer is removable carefully, then it'd become exactly like the white one.


----------



## Willber

HighLevelDemon said:


> The Vido might be too big for me if it's 16mm also. The RY4S are 15mm which is acceptable for me.


The Vido and RY4S both use the MX500 shell and are the same size.


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> My lucky bag arrived a few hours ago but I have only had a little time with it.  Enough to know that it sounds great!   I don't know why someone thought it was bass light unless it was just not sealed in the ear enough.  I have a nice tight fit with the supplied foams and everything sounds as it should to me.


I agree, plenty of bass for me. I'll give some more impressions in a couple of days but a very good start IMO.


----------



## Willber

phthora said:


> Willber said:
> 
> 
> > Luckybag landed. Lovely, like lots.
> ...


From what I've heard so far it's an 'L' of a bud!


----------



## letlive

Does the lucky bag has a one button mic? Or are there also volume buttons?


----------



## Willber

robar said:


> can be fixed with EQ but it's cumbersome for me especially with Windows


Have you tried the PEACE/APO equalizer? It is very feature-rich but easy to use. I have created and stored hundreds of profiles for all my phones. And it's free!

https://sourceforge.net/projects/peace-equalizer-apo-extension/


----------



## jogawag

Willber said:


> I agree, plenty of bass for me. I'll give some more impressions in a couple of days but a very good start IMO.


Please tell me what you think of them especially compared to the SR2 16ohm's wide sound stage and bass.


----------



## Willber

jogawag said:


> Please tell me what you think of them especially compared to the SR2 16ohm's wide sound stage and bass.


First impressions: As you know, I'm a big fan of the SR2. But the B40 is better in every way after just a few hours' listening... I've already ordered another set.


----------



## jogawag

Willber said:


> First impressions: As you know, I'm a big fan of the SR2. But the B40 is better in every way after just a few hours' listening... I've already ordered another set.


After reading your reply、I've just already ordered another set too.


----------



## Willber

jogawag said:


> After reading your reply、I've just already ordered another set too.


Ah, no pressure...


----------



## waynes world (Sep 4, 2019)

Willber said:


> Ah, no pressure...



If you make bold statements like the following, then you _deserve_ plenty of pressure lol!



Willber said:


> First impressions: As you know, I'm a big fan of the SR2. But the B40 is better in every way after just a few hours' listening... I've already ordered another set.



Good thing that I am resistant to your hype for once, as I ordered them as soon as I got Jim's message 

Edit: Dang - I see that you ordered a _2nd _pair. I can't order a 2nd pair before even listening to my 1st pair, can I???


----------



## Willber

waynes world said:


> If you make bold statements like the following, then you _deserve_ plenty of pressure lol!


It's cool, I'm confident. 



waynes world said:


> Edit: Dang - I see that you ordered a _2nd _pair. I can't order a 2nd pair before even listening to my 1st pair, can I???


I think that's what @jogawag has done. Do you feel lucky, punk?


----------



## waynes world

Willber said:


> I think that's what @jogawag has done. Do you feel lucky, punk?



I feel like a weak punk lol.

So, you think that "the B40 is better in every way" than the SR2. I suppose you feel the same way compared to the mighty Silvers as well?


----------



## Willber

waynes world said:


> So, you think that "the B40 is better in every way" than the SR2. I suppose you feel the same way compared to the mighty Silvers as well?


I do indeed. These things seem to be on a different level, such a mature sound. But I'll give it a couple more days to make sure it's not 'new toy' syndrome. Although I'm fairly sure it's not - there are definite improvements, I'm sure.


----------



## waynes world

Willber said:


> I do indeed. These things seem to be on a different level, such a mature sound. But I'll give it a couple more days to make sure it's not 'new toy' syndrome. Although I'm fairly sure it's not - there are definite improvements, I'm sure.



Sigh.


----------



## robar (Sep 4, 2019)

Willber said:


> Have you tried the PEACE/APO equalizer? It is very feature-rich but easy to use. I have created and stored hundreds of profiles for all my phones. And it's free!
> 
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/peace-equalizer-apo-extension/


Yep I've tried and used EqualizerAPO in the past, but I'm not familiar with PEACE, I'll check it out! In the past months I just couldn't get EqualizerAPO to work on my PC, maybe one of the Windows updates killed it. Few days ago I got the big yearly update, so I'll try again, maybe it solves it.
It's quite funny, I ordered SR2 and Fengru Silver few weeks ago, mainly inspired by your impressions  Plus I ordered lucky bag too, so it'll be quite fun to test all three together.


----------



## Willber

robar said:


> Yep I've tried and used EqualizerAPO in the past, but I'm not familiar with PEACE, I'll check it out! In the past months I just couldn't get EqualizerAPO to work on my PC, maybe one of the Windows updates killed it. Few days ago I got the big yearly update, so I'll try again, maybe it solves it.
> It's quite funny, I ordered SR2 and Fengru Silver few weeks ago, mainly inspired by your impressions  Plus I ordered lucky bag too, so it'll be quite fun to test all three together.


I've never used APO without PEACE but it is supposed to be compatible with all versions of Windows (although I am still on W7). I hope you can get it to work, it really is good.

SR2 and Silvers still sound great, but there's a new kid in town.


----------



## Willber

waynes world said:


> Sigh.


----------



## waynes world

Willber said:


>



Hey @Nick, if they are no good, I'll send you my spare pair. Ah, sorry to tease you - based on the feedback thus far, I'm sure they'll be good!


----------



## assassin10000

jogawag said:


> After reading your reply、I've just already ordered another set too.



Ditto x2.



waynes world said:


> Edit: Dang - I see that you ordered a _2nd _pair. I can't order a 2nd pair before even listening to my 1st pair, can I???



I'm in the same boat lol. One ordered initially, then I just ordered 2 more.


----------



## 40760

Ordered another pair as well...


----------



## jogawag (Sep 5, 2019)

Everyone(Someone?) buys unreasonably, so now the lucky bags is almost sold out!


----------



## waynes world

A lot of us got on Wilber's (and HungryPanda's and Mbwilson111's) hype train before it even arrived at the station!


----------



## GREQ

robar said:


> My latest batch of vidos. If you look closely you can see that blue vido has basically two layers of foam glued into the shell. This variant even had some glue for fixing the driver in place, I think it's because the blue driver barely snaps back with this much foam. Maybe the outer layer is removable carefully, then it'd become exactly like the white one.


That looks more like a manufacturing mistake than colour variation.
I've opened four blue Vidos and three white Vidos and mine all had one single layer of foam.


----------



## jogawag (Sep 5, 2019)

We could say that a lot of us were rich enough to buy multiple small betting ticket(B40 earbuds)s...


----------



## HungryPanda

I think one pair will be good enough for me, something else is always around the corner


----------



## jogawag

HungryPanda said:


> I think one pair will be good enough for me, something else is always around the corner


What do you think of B40 compared to the SR2 16ohm's wide sound stage and bass?


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Sigh.



Why? Why? Why?  We each only  have one pair of ears.


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> Why? Why? Why?  We each only  have one pair of ears.



It is tough to battle the hoarder in us... especially when it comes to affordable earbuds...


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> It is tough to battle the hoarder in us... especially when it comes to affordable earbuds...



I do have several Kubes but those come in different colors.   Same with my recabled Sony HPM-64s.

...and a few Monks

Are we hoarders?  Uh-oh.  Having flashbacks now to my Beanie Baby days.


----------



## HeadlessChicken

mbwilson111 said:


> Why? Why? Why?  We each only  have one pair of ears.


said by every non-head-fi member who have to live with the people in this forum


----------



## HungryPanda

I like to be spoilt for choice


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> I like to be spoilt for choice



You are definitely spoiled!


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> I do have several Kubes but those come in different colors.   Same with my recabled Sony HPM-64s.
> 
> ...and a few Monks
> 
> Are we hoarders?  Uh-oh.  Having flashbacks now to my Beanie Baby days.



At least yours are of different colours... Mine are all of the same colours!


----------



## KevDzn

mbwilson111 said:


> I do have several Kubes but those come in different colors. Same with my recabled Sony HPM-64s.
> 
> ...and a few Monks
> 
> Are we hoarders? Uh-oh. Having flashbacks now to my Beanie Baby days.



Luckily these modded Kubes by Rholupat are sold out.


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> At least yours are of different colours... Mine are all of the same colours!



Don't be afraid of color!


----------



## GREQ

mbwilson111 said:


> Don't be afraid of color!


I definitely felt that way about my black Kubes.




It wasn't quite as scary to open these as I was lead to believe in previous comments.
Pro Tip:
I just got some old pliers and covered the jaws with a layer of hot glue - gives a perfect grip and doesn't scratch the plastic while prying off the caps.
I pulled them off by pulling away from the stem, but a little big of wiggling was required to break the glue seal.


----------



## mbwilson111

GREQ said:


> I definitely felt that way about my black Kubes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I do have a spare orange Kube that I might be brave enough to ask for a recable.   Also my white one maybe.   My pink, purple and other orange Kube will remain as they are.

Lots of color!


----------



## GREQ

mbwilson111 said:


> I do have a spare orange Kube that I might be brave enough to ask for a recable.   Also my white one maybe.   My pink, purple and other orange Kube will remain as they are.
> 
> Lots of color!


I've got an orange one too, but I can't find a cable colour that just fits perfectly.
The dual copper colours I used for the black don't work with the orange at all.
I'm in no rush to re-cable it, but a perfectly matching orange would be ideal... I just can't bring myself to mix up the colours too much.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 5, 2019)

GREQ said:


> I've got an orange one too, but I can't find a cable colour that just fits perfectly.
> The dual copper colours I used for the black don't work with the orange at all.
> I'm in no rush to re-cable it, but a perfectly matching orange would be ideal... I just can't bring myself to mix up the colours too much.



I know, I have no idea what color I would use with the orange.  The one it comes with matches perfectly.  The stock cable is fine... just does not lie smoothly.  I could go Halloween and use a black cable and black foams (or one black one orange)... hmmm...  I still would have my other original.


----------



## snowmind

Friends, my NiceHCK B40 bag has arrived in my country. I haven't received it yet.

Is it worth buying a second unit of this bud?


----------



## mbwilson111

snowmind said:


> Friends, my NiceHCK B40 bag has arrived in my country. I haven't received it yet.
> 
> Is it worth buying a second unit of this bud?



What buds do you  have now that you like and that fit you?


----------



## snowmind

mbwilson111 said:


> What buds do you  have now that you like and that fit you?



Mr mbwilson111,

I have RY4S which is V-shaped, Qian25 signature neutral and midcentric Qian69.

Among these, my ears thank more with the sound of Qian25, it is very natural and detailed, with no spikes in frequency response.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 5, 2019)

snowmind said:


> Mr mbwilson111,
> 
> I have RY4S which is V-shaped, Qian25 signature neutral and midcentric Qian69.
> 
> Among these, my ears thank more with the sound of Qian25, it is very natural and detailed, with no spikes in frequency response.



If all of those fit you then the shell of this one should also fit. 

Have you read what others have said so far about this lucky bag bud?  I think you will like the sound... whether you need to order a spare depends on if you like to have spares 

It is a very good bud and it is hard to think of anything at that price or a bit more that I would recommend above it.  I have not found any fault with it... but then I like to listen to and enjoy my music without trying to find fault.  For what it is worth,  I prefer a balanced sound.   I probably do have some things that are considered V shaped but V shaped is not what I normally look for.  Not sure if others agree but I do not consider this one to be V shaped.

Nothing is lacking. Nothing is recessed (to my ears).   I have a very good fit and seal with these so others may experience them differently depending on their ear anatomy and listening preferences.


----------



## snowmind

mbwilson111 said:


> If all of those fit you then the shell of this one should also fit.
> 
> Have you read what others have said so far about this lucky bag bud?  I think you will like the sound... whether you need to order a spare depends on if you like to have spares
> 
> ...



I trust your words. In your opinion, does the B40 get along with pop and heavy metal, heavier tracks?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 5, 2019)

snowmind said:


> I trust your words. In your opinion, does the B40 get along with pop and heavy metal, heavier tracks?



Keep in mind that I have only had a short time with mine... listening to some of my favorite tracks.  I have not even listened to an album in its entirety yet.   I do not listen to metal.  Last night I tried a bit of blues, a bit of folk, a bit of rock, a bit of electronica, some of my favorite singer-songwriters.... I am confident it will be fine for all of my music but besides not listening to metal I also do not listen to hip hop or EDM.   Ask someone else about that.

Give us a song to try


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 5, 2019)

...and now this has arrived today.  What to do... what do I listen to now? Choices.   I do have to figure out what cable I want to put on it but I think I know which one will look the best. 

My Chitty DIY MMCX bud.  I am happy it arrived in a case... and that it has already been fitted with foams (donuts).  Donuts usually shift when I wear them... we will see...


----------



## snowmind

mbwilson111 said:


> Keep in mind that I have only had a short time with mine... listening to some of my favorite tracks.  I have not even listened to an album in its entirety yet.   I do not listen to metal.  Last night I tried a bit of blues, a bit of folk, a bit of rock, a bit of electronica, some of my favorite singer-songwriters.... I am confident it will be fine for all of my music but besides not listening to metal I also do not listen to hip hop or EDM.   Ask someone else about that.
> 
> Give us a song to try



Ok, i'll point you to some heavy, congested tracks, so you can hear how the new B40 behaves:

Massive Attack - Teardrop 

Massive Attack - Dissolved Girl

Dream Theater - The Dark Eternal Night 

Pata de Elefante - Vazio Na Cerveja


----------



## mbwilson111

snowmind said:


> Ok, i'll point you to some heavy, congested tracks, so you can hear how the new B40 behaves:
> 
> Massive Attack - Teardrop
> 
> ...



Oh I love Massive Attack.  I have that on my DAP.  Good suggestion.  The new MMCX bud will wait.  I can put some Dream Theater on as well.  Not familiar with the other one.


----------



## snowmind

mbwilson111 said:


> Oh I love Massive Attack.  I have that on my DAP.  Good suggestion.  The new MMCX bud will wait.  I can put some Dream Theater on as well.  Not familiar with the other one.



Here in Brazil we call it samba-rock. As you can imagine reading the name, it's a fusion of classic rock and samba, it's a very groove and bass type of song. Thanks for your proactivity, i look forward to the impressions.

However, if you confirm that the B40 handles Massive Attack and Dream Theater well, I will find a way to make my decision.


----------



## mbwilson111

snowmind said:


> Here in Brazil we call it samba-rock. As you can imagine reading the name, it's a fusion of classic rock and samba, it's a very groove and bass type of song. Thanks for your proactivity, i look forward to the impressions.
> 
> However, if you confirm that the B40 handles Massive Attack and Dream Theater well, I will find a way to make my decision.



... or you wait until you get your first pair and then decide if you want an extra.  There is always something good on the way... and many many good ones that you have not tried.   Just remember my ears are not your ears.  I have never claimed to be any kind of expert... only a music lover.  The only reason I have so many buds is because of this thread and my curiosity... plus I have a whole bunch that my husband @HungryPanda has made for me... the newest one being the red one that I posted a photo of earlier.   The HungryPanda Elmo.  If you look at the photo you will see Elmo  LOL.  Saw the case on Aliexpress and just had to have it.  Had the case first then planned the bud


----------



## snowmind

mbwilson111 said:


> ... or you wait until you get your first pair and then decide if you want an extra.  There is always something good on the way... and many many good ones that you have not tried.   Just remember my ears are not your ears.  I have never claimed to be any kind of expert... only a music lover.  The only reason I have so many buds is because of this thread and my curiosity... plus I have a whole bunch that my husband @HungryPanda has made for me... the newest one being the red one that I posted a photo of earlier.   The HungryPanda Elmo.  If you look at the photo you will see Elmo  LOL.  Saw the case on Aliexpress and just had to have it.  Had the case first then planned the bud



Exactly, but I understand that if I take too long to buy more units for the lucky bag promotional price, by then the price will be higher.

But really, each person has a different ear and what's good for me may not sound nice to you.


----------



## mbwilson111

snowmind said:


> Exactly, but I understand that if I take too long to buy more units for the lucky bag promotional price, by then the price will be higher.



... or they might be gone... if you are really worried just get it and you can always gift someone or sell it to a friend for what you paid.


----------



## assassin10000 (Sep 5, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Why? Why? Why?  We each only  have one pair of ears.



They're cheap enough that if the driver sounds good I may use them for my own DIY bud.

I ordered a couple shells this last sale. Matter of fact, combined they cost less than one of the drivers I ordered lol.


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> ... or they might be gone... if you are really worried just get it and you can always gift someone or sell it to a friend for what you paid.



My exact sentiments when I purchased the second pair...


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> I think one pair will be good enough for me, something else is always around the corner



A little late to be the voice of reason, don't you think?


----------



## HungryPanda

You have my mark


----------



## mbwilson111

snowmind said:


> However, if you confirm that the B40 handles Massive Attack and Dream Theater well, I will find a way to make my decision.




Ok I used the B40 to listen to all of Mezzanine and thoroughly enjoyed it.   Definitely not bass light but rather just the right amount... not interring with anything else.  Not sure how to listen for congestion but I can say that nothing seemed obscured.  Any vocals in the tracks were easy to understand..   

I then tried to listen to the one Dream Theater and I must say I did not expect so much noise and chaos.  I could hear everything that was going on ... even when it got mental...but my brain could not handle it so I had to stop before the track was over.  It was torture actually... lol.  Not the fault of the bud.  I just have never listened to anything like that.  I use music to relax more than anything.

When you do get the one that is on the way I will be interested in your thoughts on this.


----------



## snowmind

mbwilson111 said:


> Ok I used the B40 to listen to all of Mezzanine and thoroughly enjoyed it.   Definitely not bass light but rather just the right amount... not interring with anything else.  Not sure how to listen for congestion but I can say that nothing seemed obscured.  Any vocals in the tracks were easy to understand..
> 
> I then tried to listen to the one Dream Theater and I must say I did not expect so much noise and chaos.  I could hear everything that was going on ... even when it got mental...but my brain could not handle it so I had to stop before the track was over.  It was torture actually... lol.  Not the fault of the bud.  I just have never listened to anything like that.  I use music to relax more than anything.
> 
> When you do get the one that is on the way I will be interested in your thoughts on this.



Dream Theater features lighter, more relaxing music with pianos and acoustic. The heavy song I pointed out to you, as the album name itself suggests (Systematic Chaos), so there is already an idea of what to expect at the audition.

If you want something less chaotic from this band, try "Take Away My Pain"

Thanks for your words and confirmation about Massive Attack =)


----------



## phixion

Well, I stuck my earbuds up for sale. I'd rather not have them just sit in a drawer and not get used.

Maybe one day we will get a nice earbud with an EarPod type shell, until then I guess I will stick to my EarPods when I don't need isolation.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 5, 2019)

phixion said:


> Well, I stuck my earbuds up for sale. I'd rather not have them just sit in a drawer and not get used.
> 
> Maybe one day we will get a nice earbud with an EarPod type shell, until then I guess I will stick to my EarPods when I don't need isolation.



There are some with a pod type shell..  the Memt T5 is excellent.  Very comfortable also.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32855938707.html

Special price if you "follow " the store.

Also consider this one

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Linklike-H...htweight-Earphones-Bright-Black/dp/B07MZ6624S

I like both


----------



## smokecrack

So which of these is the best?


----------



## phixion (Sep 5, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> There are some with a pod type shell..  the Memt T5 is excellent.  Very comfortable also.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32855938707.html
> 
> ...



So would you say these are better than EarPods?

I'm probably in the minority but I actually like how EarPods sound, maybe the good fit just helps the sound.


----------



## mochill

Got the ty hi-z awk-F150T1 , just do diffused and textured and powerful


----------



## XP_98 (Sep 6, 2019)

Totl Yuin shell earbuds :
Could someone compare Simphonio Dragon 2 plus (SWD2+) and Moonbuds Super Nightingale ?
It seems they are both on the bright side, can the Super Nightingale be sometimes harsh as reported for the SWD2+ ?
And how do they compare to old king Shozy BK ?


----------



## 40760

XP_98 said:


> Totl Yuin shell earbuds :
> Could someone compare Simphonio Dragon 2 plus (SWD2+) and Moonbuds Super Nightingale ?
> It seems they are both on the bright side, can the Super Nightingale be sometimes harsh as reported for the SWD2+ ?
> And how do they compare to old king Shozy BK ?



I had the SWD2+ and though they were detailed and spacious sounding, they can come off as borderline bright or a tad too harsh for me on some tracks.

The Shozy B.K on the other hand, I listened for about a day but unfortunately had to send them back for repairs due to failed right driver. I find them really smooth sounding and there is an appeal to the smoothness in presentaton. I was initially also afraid it might be lacking in bass but that was proven not the case. I cannot wait to get them back for a proper assessment...

As it stands and if nothing is changed with the returning pair, I will say I prefer the B.K over the SWD2+.


----------



## mbwilson111

phixion said:


> So would you say these are better than EarPods?
> 
> I'm probably in the minority but I actually like how EarPods sound, maybe the good fit just helps the sound.



I recently did come into possession of a pair of earpods and was quite surprised by how nice they sound.  I have not tried to compare the sound head to head with these other pods so I cannot say which is "better."  Often it is not a matter or better or worse... just different... or sometimes not THAT different.    The build quality though on the Memt  T5 is so good.  I guess part of it is the looks... do you want white earpods... or something different...

I know, I am no help at all.  I am not usually up this early and my brain will not wake up.  There is no way I can even listen to anything this early in the morning.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

mochill said:


> Got the ty hi-z awk-F150T1 , just do diffused and textured and powerful



I also look at it. say what sounds better Smabat ST-10 or TY Hi-Z F150TS ?


----------



## XP_98

palestofwhite said:


> I had the SWD2+ and though they were detailed and spacious sounding, they can come off as borderline bright or a tad too harsh for me on some tracks.
> 
> The Shozy B.K on the other hand, I listened for about a day but unfortunately had to send them back for repairs due to failed right driver. I find them really smooth sounding and there is an appeal to the smoothness in presentaton. I was initially also afraid it might be lacking in bass but that was proven not the case. I cannot wait to get them back for a proper assessment...
> 
> As it stands and if nothing is changed with the returning pair, I will say I prefer the B.K over the SWD2+.


Thank you for your answer. So the questions are left for Super Nightingale (harshness, comparison vs Shozy BK)...


----------



## Alluvial

Recently got the Qian69s - Loving them. Incredible value for money. Is anyone able to recommend something vaguely similar, but with more bass - particularly subbass ? Preferably under $50, but interested in all options.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Sep 6, 2019)

Alluvial said:


> Recently got the Qian69s - Loving them. Incredible value for money. Is anyone able to recommend something vaguely similar, but with more bass - particularly subbass ? Preferably under $50, but interested in all options.



Vido, Fengru EMX500
but better
The Kube v1, Sabia v7, Willsound MK2


----------



## Alluvial

Alex.Grimm said:


> Vido, Fengru EMX500
> but better
> The Kube v1, Sabia v7, Willsound MK2



Cheers - will check them out. Are these available via Ali?


----------



## HungryPanda (Sep 6, 2019)

No but RY4S plus and https://aliexpress.com/item/4000120453244.html


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Sep 6, 2019)

Alluvial said:


> Cheers - will check them out. Are these available via Ali?





Spoiler



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32806045266.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32759573651.html
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Earphone-Earbud-EARKUBE-The-Kube-V1-Original-Brand-New-Headset/223489003253
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Earphone-Earbud-EARKUBE-The-Kube-V1-Original-Brand-New-Headset/264447777073
https://www.ebay.com/itm/EARKUBE-Th...adphones-Kopfhorer-Neu-New-Chifi/123816934127
http://www.rholupat.com/indonesian-buds/kubeplus-black.html
http://www.rholupat.com/indonesian-buds/kubeplus-orange.html
http://www.rholupat.com/indonesian-buds/sabia-v7.html
http://www.rholupat.com/willsound-buds/willsound-mk2-bk.html
http://www.rholupat.com/willsound-buds/willsound-mk2-wh.html
http://www.rholupat.com/willsound-buds/willsound-mk2-mmcx-bk.html
http://www.rholupat.com/willsound-buds/willsound-mk2-mmcx-wh.html
http://www.rholupat.com/willsound-buds/willsound-mk2-vjc-35mm.html
http://www.rholupat.com/willsound-buds/willsound-mk2-vjc-25mm.html


----------



## Alluvial

Amazing, thank you!!!



Alex.Grimm said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## phthora

Well, I pulled the trigger on some earbuds. Half a dozen, actually.

HE 150PRO
RY GM500
RY RY4S HI-Cable
Toneking TP16
TY Hi-Z 150S
the something-something BK2
Which ones should I be most excited about? Any that are horrific mistakes?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

phthora said:


> Which ones should I be most excited about?



I had HE 150PRO, Toneking TP16 I did not like,  RY RY4S HI-Cable good but lacks sub bass and bass. In your place I would try TY Hi-Z 150S or TS


----------



## mbwilson111

phthora said:


> Well, I pulled the trigger on some earbuds. Half a dozen, actually.
> 
> HE 150PRO
> RY GM500
> ...



I especially like the first one.  The others I have not heard but have models by some of the same brands.

With any choices you will find some who hate it and others who love it.  Just wait and see what you think. Don't try them all in one day


----------



## phthora

mbwilson111 said:


> I especially like the first one.  The others I have not heard but have models by some of the same brands.
> 
> With any choices you will find some who hate it and others who love it.  Just wait and see what you think. Don't try them all in one day



Trying them all in one day would be a tall order, especially since delivery dates are all weeks apart for some reason. But, your point is a good one. I think it's better to get accustomed to an earbud before passing judgment and moving on to the next one. The question really is: which ones do a I try first and which ones do I save for last?


----------



## mbwilson111

phthora said:


> Trying them all in one day would be a tall order, especially since delivery dates are all weeks apart for some reason. But, your point is a good one. I think it's better to get accustomed to an earbud before passing judgment and moving on to the next one. The question really is: which ones do a I try first and which ones do I save for last?



Depends on which one arrives first

Although, I had 5 things arrive together back when I was just beginning with buds. That was overwhelming.


----------



## HungryPanda

phthora said:


> Well, I pulled the trigger on some earbuds. Half a dozen, actually.
> 
> HE 150PRO
> RY GM500
> ...


A very good selection. Use one one day, then sleep ,use another after a brain reset. You will find your favourite ones for whatever genre. Then all will be fine. I have the RY GM300 and it is very good. I also possess the Toneking TP16 which is easier to drive. The BK2 is also a very good earbud.


----------



## groucho69

phthora said:


> Well, I pulled the trigger on some earbuds. Half a dozen, actually.
> 
> HE 150PRO
> RY GM500
> ...


----------



## phthora

It's okay, @groucho69 I've already found the bottom of a couple of other rabbit holes. My wallet was starting to look smug, anyway.


----------



## mbwilson111

phthora said:


> It's okay, @groucho69 I've already found the bottom of a couple of other rabbit holes. My wallet was starting to look smug, anyway.



I just looked at your profile and saw the rabbit holes... I have not been quite that deep.


----------



## rkw

mbwilson111 said:


> I just looked at your profile and saw the rabbit holes... *I have not been quite that deep*.


Comparing your profile, I'm not so sure about that


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 6, 2019)

rkw said:


> Comparing your profile, I'm not so sure about that



I am sure I have spent far less.  I have a lot of buds and iems that are less than $10 each.

Mostly I was thinking about how I have never bought anything as costly as an Audeze.


----------



## harpuajim

mbwilson111 said:


> There are three different drivers used in that listing.  The one you got is the PK2 driver.  The 16 ohm one is the SR2 driver.  The 150 ohm is something else.   All will sound different and to be honest, I think all will sound good.   We have the ones with the SR2 drivers and love them.. but they do need a lot of burn in.
> 
> That is a good store... it is where my husband @HungryPanda buys a lot of his supplies for making his own buds (which are excellent... but just a hobby for us... not for sale).    He has made buds for us using the 32 ohm PK drivers from that store and they are excellent.   He has also used the 150ohm drivers and those buds turned out well also.
> 
> ...



Hey I just wanted to say thanks for the background.  I've been using them and they're great.

Take care!


----------



## Mhog55

After researching, I've narrowed my choices down to 2 options. Smabat ST-10, and NICEHCK EBX. Smabat is easier to source, and I prefer simplicity. Which of these two buds would you choose for hard rock and hair metal? Looking for people who have owned / heard both.


----------



## assassin10000

Mhog55 said:


> After researching, I've narrowed my choices down to 2 options. Smabat ST-10, and NICEHCK EBX. Smabat is easier to source, and I prefer simplicity. Which of these two buds would you choose for hard rock and hair metal? Looking for people who have owned / heard both.



I was in a similar dilemma. I ordered both a while back.

EBX was a little to forward sounding for me. After long 4-6 hour sessions I'd have some fatigue.

I kept and still use the ST-10 often. I just EQ -2/3 db at 31, 62 & 125 hz to balance the sub/bass out. Only as I listen for long sessions and bass being heavy also leads to fatigue.


----------



## waynes world

It's time for me to say this again: the Yincrow RW9's are pretty darned good.


----------



## mochill

waynes world said:


> It's time for me to say this again: the Yincrow RW9's are pretty darned good.


How good?


----------



## Mhog55

assassin10000 said:


> I was in a similar dilemma. I ordered both a while back.
> 
> EBX was a little to forward sounding for me. After long 4-6 hour sessions I'd have some fatigue.
> 
> I kept and still use the ST-10 often. I just EQ -2/3 db at 31, 62 & 125 hz to balance the sub/bass out. Only as I listen for long sessions and bass being heavy also leads to fatigue.


Okay. Is there any 3rd recommendation you would like to propose with mmcx cable for my genres? If not, I'm going to roll the dice with the ST-10.


----------



## assassin10000

Mhog55 said:


> Okay. Is there any 3rd recommendation you would like to propose with mmcx cable for my genres? If not, I'm going to roll the dice with the ST-10.



Not that I can think of that I've owned. I had the PT25 but it's nowhere near as good as the ST-10. The ACG is good but lacks sub-bass for most, due to the large open design which does not seal well. If pressed against my ears it has as much bass as most others.

I do have the PT15 & BK2 on order from this last sale (that you just missed  ). Can't comment on them yet, as they are incoming still.


----------



## XP_98 (Sep 7, 2019)

XP_98 said:


> Thank you for your answer. So the questions are left for Super Nightingale (harshness, comparison vs Shozy BK)...


No one here knows the Moonbuds Super Nightingale (found only one - very positive - review) ?


----------



## RobinFood

XP_98 said:


> P ou ç?n
> 
> No one here knows the Moonbuds Super Nightingale (found only one - very positive - review) ?



I know of it from earbuds anonymous on Facebook, but the price was too steep for a relatively unknown maker for me to buy.

I would be more inclined to get the new blur zero considering the following blur already has in the world of diy earbuds makers, but it always feels like a risk with these guys, so I always end up spending an amount I wouldn't mind gambling away.

Good luck finding your PK Holy Grail, have you gotten your Pureson earbud yet? Mine is ready to ship I heard, can't wait to get my first PK bud!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 9, 2021)

Received my NICEHCK Luckybag... B40 w/ Mic. Nicely built, I like the cable; very nice sounding; excellent mic, strong clarity. Smaller PK shell type.


----------



## MisterMudd

waynes world said:


> It's time for me to say this again: the Yincrow RW9's are pretty darned good.


OK. I am in for a set. I find my X6 to be very good as well and am looking for inexpensive upgrade. Ordering from Aliexpress today. Thanks Wayne.


----------



## XP_98

RobinFood said:


> I know of it from earbuds anonymous on Facebook, but the price was too steep for a relatively unknown maker for me to buy.
> 
> I would be more inclined to get the new blur zero considering the following blur already has in the world of diy earbuds makers, but it always feels like a risk with these guys, so I always end up spending an amount I wouldn't mind gambling away.
> 
> Good luck finding your PK Holy Grail, have you gotten your Pureson earbud yet? Mine is ready to ship I heard, can't wait to get my first PK bud!


I agree fully with you : the high price prevents me to be tempted to buy based on only one review...

For Blur zero, besides the fact that I don't like the color combination (would have preferred black shell with blue cable, or white shell with clear cable), they aren't any reviews either. I could not even find the price...

Regarding the Pureson earbuds, they should ship in the next days  But I have to be patient (once shipped, 10-20 days expected before delivery...).
I will post some pics and a quick report once burned in.


----------



## HighLevelDemon (Sep 7, 2019)

Just received the NICEHCK B40 and Ollivan MS16. The MS16 is bell shaped and well over 16mm in diameter. Definitely not a good fit for my ears. The B40 are also 16mm in diameter, so it's larger than the RY4S and Edifier H180 / SHE3800. I wonder why they put 14.8mm on the package?

edit: Or maybe I'm wrong, I have to measure the other ones again


----------



## mbwilson111

HighLevelDemon said:


> Just received the NICEHCK B40 and Ollivan MS16. The MS16 is bell shaped and well over 16mm in diameter. Definitely not a good fit for my ears. The B40 are also 16mm in diameter. I wonder why they put 14.8mm on the package?



that is the driver size


----------



## DBaldock9

Mhog55 said:


> After researching, I've narrowed my choices down to 2 options. Smabat ST-10, and NICEHCK EBX. Smabat is easier to source, and I prefer simplicity. Which of these two buds would you choose for hard rock and hair metal? Looking for people who have owned / heard both.





assassin10000 said:


> I was in a similar dilemma. I ordered both a while back.
> 
> EBX was a little to forward sounding for me. After long 4-6 hour sessions I'd have some fatigue.
> 
> I kept and still use the ST-10 often. I just EQ -2/3 db at 31, 62 & 125 hz to balance the sub/bass out. Only as I listen for long sessions and bass being heavy also leads to fatigue.





assassin10000 said:


> Not that I can think of that I've owned. I had the PT25 but it's nowhere near as good as the ST-10. The ACG is good but lacks sub-bass for most, due to the large open design which does not seal well. If pressed against my ears it has as much bass as most others.
> 
> I do have the PT15 & BK2 on order from this last sale (that you just missed  ). Can't comment on them yet, as they are incoming still.



I've got these MMCX Earbuds, that I enjoy listening to (but my music preferences are not as _hard_ as yours - mainly Celtic Prog-Rock, Renaissance Fair musicians, Big Band, Jazz, ...) - 
(Listed by sound preference)
Smabat ST-10 (These just sound the _most right_ to me.)
NiceHCK EBX (These may have a bit more of the lowest Bass, than the ST-10, but aren't as comfortable.)
PT15 (These are actually the most comfortable in my ears, when worn with cable over-the-ear.)
Svara-L (32Ω) (Nearly as good as the ST-10.)


----------



## RobinFood

XP_98 said:


> I agree fully with you : the high price prevents me to be tempted to buy based on only one review...
> 
> For Blur zero, besides the fact that I don't like the color combination (would have preferred black shell with blue cable, or white shell with clear cable), they aren't any reviews either. I could not even find the price...
> 
> ...



Yeah, no reviews or price for the zero but if you have ever talked to Wong before you probably can know everything you need to know about it. If I had to guess the price is between 150-200$ with an ultra natural sound signature with not much bass. I haven't talked to him about this one in particular but that tends to be the blur signature and price.

I guess Pureson will ship our packages at the same time. I have some pre pictures of the finished product already, and since there was delays with extra requests near the end he told me that he started burning them in already. The pictures look beautiful, I hope they get here fast since I live in a country not too far away and our postal service here is insanely fast (Amazon prime shipping doesn't make sense here).


----------



## XP_98

RobinFood said:


> Yeah, no reviews or price for the zero but if you have ever talked to Wong before you probably can know everything you need to know about it. If I had to guess the price is between 150-200$ with an ultra natural sound signature with not much bass. I haven't talked to him about this one in particular but that tends to be the blur signature and price.
> 
> I guess Pureson will ship our packages at the same time. I have some pre pictures of the finished product already, and since there was delays with extra requests near the end he told me that he started burning them in already. The pictures look beautiful, I hope they get here fast since I live in a country not too far away and our postal service here is insanely fast (Amazon prime shipping doesn't make sense here).


I could ask Wong indeed, thanks for the tip 

Regarding Pureson, I got nice pictures too, but to France it should take longer...
Did you also order Agares earbuds ?


----------



## XP_98

RobinFood said:


> Yeah, no reviews or price for the zero but if you have ever talked to Wong before you probably can know everything you need to know about it. If I had to guess the price is between 150-200$ with an ultra natural sound signature with not much bass. I haven't talked to him about this one in particular but that tends to be the blur signature and price.
> 
> I guess Pureson will ship our packages at the same time. I have some pre pictures of the finished product already, and since there was delays with extra requests near the end he told me that he started burning them in already. The pictures look beautiful, I hope they get here fast since I live in a country not too far away and our postal service here is insanely fast (Amazon prime shipping doesn't make sense here).


I could ask Wong indeed, thanks for the tip 

Regarding Pureson, I got nice pictures too, but to France it should take longer...
Did you also order Agares earbuds ?


----------



## waynes world

mochill said:


> How good?



So good that @MisterMudd just bought a pair!

Seriously, it's hard for me to quantify, but when I first got them I enjoyed them so much that I listened to them elusively for a few months. Now, whenever I throw them in, I remember why. Good amount of bass, great mids, lively, dynamic and fun. It's suffice to say they are entrenched in my favorites list.



DBaldock9 said:


> Svara-L (32Ω) (Nearly as good as the ST-10.)



I forget.. how much did I pay you to say that?


----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> ...
> I forget.. how much did I pay you to say that?



Well, the ST-10 is an evolution of the Svara-L.
The shell size and shape is basically the same.
It definitely has more, and better, Bass than the Svara-L - but the Midrange & Treble of the Svara-L is similar.

"I can neither confirm, nor deny, the existence of a paid endorsement... "


----------



## Mhog55

DBaldock9 said:


> I've got these MMCX Earbuds, that I enjoy listening to (but my music preferences are not as _hard_ as yours - mainly Celtic Prog-Rock, Renaissance Fair musicians, Big Band, Jazz, ...) -
> (Listed by sound preference)
> Smabat ST-10 (These just sound the _most right_ to me.)
> NiceHCK EBX (These may have a bit more of the lowest Bass, than the ST-10, but aren't as comfortable.)
> ...


Thank you for the response. Much appreciated


----------



## RobinFood (Sep 8, 2019)

XP_98 said:


> I could ask Wong indeed, thanks for the tip
> 
> Regarding Pureson, I got nice pictures too, but to France it should take longer...
> Did you also order Agares earbuds ?



Yes, I got the Agares 150 ohm version with a balanced 2.5 cable. The cable configuration is half and half spc/copper. I plan to run it with the es100.


----------



## XP_98 (Sep 8, 2019)

RobinFood said:


> Yes, I got the Agares 150 ohm version with a balanced 2.5 cable. The cable configuration is half and half spc/copper. I plan to run it with the es100.


For me it will be Agares 150 ohm mmcx with two 8-core hybrid cables, one 2,5 balanced and one 3,5 SE.
Fine, so there will be two reports about the Agares model


----------



## dharmasteve

Mhog55 said:


> Alright then. I think I've narrowed my search down to 3, maybe 4. I don't forsee any major fitment issues, considering some of the comments written above.
> Rose Masya Pro
> Bit more than I want to spend. Seems to be the more technical, analytical bud of the group.
> Ourart ACG
> ...



Sory for the late reply. The Rose Masya Pro is actually the Rose Masya Mk2. Don't know where the word pro comes from. On the box it's clearly MK2 and Penon have just updated the figures for impedance, sensitivity and F Response. They are exceptionally easy to drive and thus sound loud. It's my only earbud so I cannot compare to others, although I intend to get the Hifiboy Dream unless anybody recommends against. In comparison to an IEM, the Rose has less clarity than the TFZ No3 transparent, but in general a much fuller more impactful sound. Bass is strong on the Masya. Separate instruments are slightly easier to identify on the TFZ No3 but in comparison it sounds thinner but clearer. For my personal taste I prefer the sound of the  Rose Masya Mk 2 although the TFZ No 3 is my favourite IEM. Although the Masya is nicely finished, because it is varnished it is easy to mark. The Masya would not suit wearing on the go at all. It is a home HiFi earbud. It's my preference at the moment as the sound is very organic compared to my IEMs.


----------



## 40760

Has anyone bought those Willsound modded KubePlus from Rholupat yet?


----------



## mbwilson111

dharmasteve said:


> The Masya would not suit wearing on the go at all. It is a home HiFi earbud. It's my preference at the moment as the sound is very organic compared to my IEMs.



I recently acquired a Rose Masya.  Not sure what version as I have no box (got it used from another headfier).  It does have a very organic sound.  Love just listening to a bunch of albums in a row with it.  I always thought it would be too big for me but it is not.  It slots in nicely.  The outer part is what makes it look big.


----------



## dharmasteve (Sep 8, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I recently acquired a Rose Masya.  Not sure what version as I have no box (got it used from another headfier).  It does have a very organic sound.  Love just listening to a bunch of albums in a row with it.  I always thought it would be too big for me but it is not.  It slots in nicely.  The outer part is what makes it look big.








These are the Mk2's. There is no such thing as the Pro as Penon call them....... it's the Mk2. The Mk2 has an extra cable included. Would not suit running around. As you say it is an earbud that you can listen to many albums in a row with. It is really a non-fatiguing sound. The buds themselves may not suit everybody for fit.  The fit is a little unusual but once you get used to it they are fine. Others may comment on how they (the original and Mk2) compare to other earbuds.

Apologies my image attatchment is not showing up.


----------



## harpuajim

So I purchased the PK2's and have been fooling around with the PEACE extension for APO.  I'm not much of an audio expert so I have been checking out the different presets that come with PEACE.  Are there any presets that I can import or at least tweak manually that are specifically geared towards the PK2?


----------



## dharmasteve

At last Rose Masya Mk2


----------



## Pictograms

Just got the K’s Bell-Ti in and I must say it is very good, nice balanced sound with real bass... honestly I might have to say it has bass slam!
But it’s definitely not as warm sounding as the VE zen black, and the black has more bass in general, but it doesn’t have the slam the bell-ti has.
I haven’t compared to the Shozy BK, but I always liked the VE more and just take the Shozy out and about wherever I go.


----------



## FastAndClean

KP110 is on - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000041569134.html


----------



## snowmind

Any more consistent reviews of NiceHCK B40?


----------



## 40760

snowmind said:


> Any more consistent reviews of NiceHCK B40?



Or you can check out the reviews at the product page on AE? There should be quite a handful at this point of time.


----------



## snowmind

palestofwhite said:


> Or you can check out the reviews at the product page on AE? There should be quite a handful at this point of time.



Yes, we already have some impressions. I imagine some head-fier made a more detailed assessment of the sound stage, frequency response, these things.


----------



## noknok23

snowmind said:


> Yes, we already have some impressions. I imagine some head-fier made a more detailed assessment of the sound stage, frequency response, these things.


I'm curious too because so far I've read people saying it's mid centric, L shaped, V shaped, not V shaped, clear and detailed (bright?) vintage warm.... To me, it's a hint that the earbud is quite balanced and natural but I am purely speculating.


----------



## snowmind

noknok23 said:


> I'm curious too because so far I've read people saying it's mid centric, L shaped, V shaped, not V shaped, clear and detailed (bright?) vintage warm.... To me, it's a hint that the earbud is quite balanced and natural but I am purely speculating.



Exactly, my expectation is to surpass the Qian25, they are buds with the same type of signature (neutral).

I'll give you a clue: several friends have already closed their search for the best bud, finding the RY4S and Qian25. I'll wait a little longer..


----------



## Willber

snowmind said:


> Exactly, my expectation is to surpass the Qian25, they are buds with the same type of signature (neutral).
> 
> I'll give you a clue: several friends have already closed their search for the best bud, finding the RY4S and Qian25. I'll wait a little longer..


IMO the B40 is far better than either the RY4S or Qian25 - it's in a different class. In fact it is better than anything else I own (see my sig), including my $200 K702. Large soundstage (width, depth and height) with superb separation and imaging. The signature is fairly neutral with great extension at both ends. Fast, tight bass, lush mids without being too warm, and sparkly non-sibilant highs. A really natural and realistic sound. At $10 they are an absolute bargain. In a word - absolutelybloodyfantastic!


----------



## snowmind

Willber said:


> IMO the B40 is far better than either the RY4S or Qian25 - it's in a different class. In fact it is better than anything else I own (see my sig), including my $200 K702. Large soundstage (width, depth and height) with superb separation and imaging. The signature is fairly neutral with great extension at both ends. Fast, tight bass, lush mids without being too warm, and sparkly non-sibilant highs. A really natural and realistic sound. At $10 they are an absolute bargain. In a word - absolutelybloodyfantastic!



Mr Wilber,

Thanks for your words and for the great feedback. I haven't received it yet, but you'll know my thoughts when the bud arrives. I'm getting the impression that the NiceHCK B40 is already a success and has beaten the previous lucky bag (ME80).


----------



## waynes world (Sep 9, 2019)

Willber said:


> IMO the B40 is far better than either the RY4S or Qian25 - it's in a different class. In fact it is better than anything else I own (see my sig), including my $200 K702. Large soundstage (width, depth and height) with superb separation and imaging. The signature is fairly neutral with great extension at both ends. Fast, tight bass, lush mids without being too warm, and sparkly non-sibilant highs. A really natural and realistic sound. At $10 they are an absolute bargain. In a word - absolutelybloodyfantastic!



I cannot yet quantify their greatness because I've only been listening for a few songs in less than ideal conditions. But I have to say I agree with your general assessments above. Especially with regard to the imaging and the soundstage. Pretty good indeed.


----------



## Willber

waynes world said:


> I cannot yet quantify their greatness because I've only been listening for a few songs in less than ideal conditions. But I have to say I agree with your general assessments above. Especially with regard to the imaging and the soundstage. Pretty good indeed.


I've tried them on most of my preferred genres (including: Vivaldi, Kate Bush, Fleetwood Mac, Elvis Costello, Vangelis, Pink Floyd, Stiff Little Fingers, Jerry Rafferty, Thin Lizzy, The Chemical Brothers, Bowie, and many more) and I haven't found a weakness yet.


----------



## waynes world (Sep 10, 2019)

Willber said:


> I've tried them on most of my preferred genres (including: Vivaldi, Kate Bush, Fleetwood Mac, Elvis Costello, Vangelis, Pink Floyd, Stiff Little Fingers, Jerry Rafferty, Thin Lizzy, The Chemical Brothers, Bowie, and many more) and I haven't found a weakness yet.



Listening to one of my favorite albums with the B40's now (Beck - Morning Phase):



Sounding awesome.

I'm using the donut foams after an excruciating time getting them on. You?

Edit: switched to full foams. Even better for me.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Advise for me a cable for Smabat ST-10 with a small jack up to $ 30, now I have Penon Silver-Plated I don’t like it. While I look at Astrotec silver plated, but the price does not inspire confidence


----------



## mbwilson111

Alex.Grimm said:


> Advise for me a cable for Smabat ST-10 with a small jack up to $ 30, now I have Penon Silver-Plated I don’t like it. While I look at Astrotec silver plated, but the price does not inspire confidence



I have no problem with the stock cable but it will be interesting to see what others suggest.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

mbwilson111 said:


> I have no problem with the stock cable but it will be interesting to see what others suggest.



stock behind-the-ear cable, I want a classic fit


----------



## mbwilson111

Alex.Grimm said:


> stock behind-the-ear cable, I want a classic fit



Not sure what you mean by classic fit.  Do you mean you want the cables to come straight down?   Does that work ok with these earpieces or do you have to reverse which ear they go in?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

mbwilson111 said:


> Not sure what you mean by classic fit.  Do you mean you want the cables to come straight down?   Does that work ok with these earpieces or do you have to reverse which ear they go in?



yes straight down and small jack . not as big as in the photo, it is not yet fully inserted into the 3.5 jack in the phone or player



Spoiler


----------



## mbwilson111

Alex.Grimm said:


> yes straight down and small jack . not as big as in the photo, it is not yet fully inserted into the 3.5 jack in the phone or player
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler



ah I see... you need a slim plug.

I am thinking that wearing them over ear keeps them in place for me but everyone's ears are different.


----------



## mbwilson111

Yay!  My Toneking TO180  (150 ohm) has just arrived.  Very pretty!  Not yet listened... I still face the struggle of getting foams onto them when I am home alone.   When I first opened these I was wondering if they were marked right and left.  Looking at this photo has answered my question, lol.

@Alex.Grimm I think this is the type of plug you want?  Surely this cable would be readily available.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

mbwilson111 said:


> I think this is the type of plug you want?  Surely this cable would be readily available.



perfect, does it sound good with earbuds?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 10, 2019)

Alex.Grimm said:


> perfect, does it sound good with earbuds?



I said I have not had a chance to listen yet... this is the mmcx.cable it arrived with... already attached.  Considering that this bud has good reviews with this cable, then I would say yes it is meant for earbuds.

It looks similar to the one on the ME80 but that one is not removable.

edit:   @Alex.Grimm  check out this one.  This is the store that my husband uses for some of his supplies for making earbuds.  I know others use it as well.  I don't quite understand all of the choices here for connectors but maybe you do.  Plus you can contact him to make sure you order the correct thing. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32793037895.html


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Sep 10, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> This is the store that my husband uses for some of his supplies for making earbuds.  I know others use it as well.l





Spoiler



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32666793720.html



found one in your store, but no reviews, I don’t know or it will sound better than the stock cable


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 10, 2019)

Alex.Grimm said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I never worry about that.  I find the stock cable just fine.  I only change cables if the stock will not work for me for some other reason... like you wanting to not wear them over ear.

The one in the link you posted looks nice.   The seller has quality products.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

alias71 said:


> Interesting... Also the Smabat ST-10 I received 3 days ago has a loose MMCX connector on the right earbud with sound that cuts off at any movement of the cable.



with the stock cable, I have everything ok, but with Penon Silver-Plated I had the same problem when I first connected. Then I took it out and put it in again, it moves but there is no sound interruption


----------



## DBaldock9 (Sep 10, 2019)

Today at work, I've been using my Walnut F2 (OPA627 - 2x Mono Op-Amps on DIP-8 header) as a USB DAC, and listening to my K's 600-Ohm (2.5mm TRRS).
Nice sounding combo, as long as it's fairly quiet in the cubicle farm.
Don't laugh too much, about the Op-Amps costing ~$20 more than the whole F2 DAP/DAC/Amp...


----------



## rkw

mbwilson111 said:


> When I first opened these I was wondering if they were marked right and left.  Looking at this photo has answered my question, lol.


Are the left and right earpieces actually different? If they are interchangeable, they shouldn't have bothered to mark them L and R. It's an MMCX cable and what matters is that the cable is marked.


----------



## mbwilson111

rkw said:


> Are the left and right earpieces actually different? If they are interchangeable, they shouldn't have bothered to mark them L and R. It's an MMCX cable and what matters is that the cable is marked.



Good point.  But I will use them the way they have them marked.  The cables were already on them.  The cable is marked also.


----------



## Willber

waynes world said:


> I'm using the donut foams after an excruciating time getting them on. You?
> 
> Edit: switched to full foams. Even better for me.


Limited wifi so brief response. Full foams for me, plenty of top end to shine beautifully.


----------



## 40760

Could not help but ordered 2 pairs of these since I love the original Kube v1.0 so much.

These fixes the cable issues I had with the original and also supposedly have improved tuning.


----------



## nhumdorn

palestofwhite said:


> I'm eagerly waiting...


I own shozy xb and cygnus and stardust  and DIY. I prefer xb more than cygnus. Stardust may be better in vocal sound but if you like really warm sound, xb can give you better than stardust. So for price vs value, xb is the best in Shozy earbuds line of product.


----------



## 40760

nhumdorn said:


> I own shozy xb and cygnus and stardust  and DIY. I prefer xb more than cygnus. Stardust may be better in vocal sound but if you like really warm sound, xb can give you better than stardust. So for price vs value, xb is the best in Shozy earbuds line of product.



I will have to get the XB to try... Though I'm not familiar with the new shell type... Very tempting indeed.


----------



## jogawag (Sep 11, 2019)

palestofwhite said:


> I will have to get the XB to try... Though I'm not familiar with the new shell type... Very tempting indeed.



The shell of Shozy XB is called "Docomo(Variant) shell" in Earbuds Anonymous etc.




The long stem of Docomo (Variant) shell boosts the bass and warms the overall sound.


----------



## 40760

jogawag said:


> The shell of Shozy XB is called "Docomo(Variant) shell" in Earbuds Anonymous etc.
> 
> 
> The long stem of Docomo(Variant) shell boosts bass.



Maybe I'll consider and get a pair soon to try... 

The shell stem looks quite long. Is it very heavy?


----------



## jogawag

palestofwhite said:


> Maybe I'll consider and get a pair soon to try...
> 
> The shell stem looks quite long. Is it very heavy?



The shell is made from plastic, so it's very light.


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> Maybe I'll consider and get a pair soon to try...
> 
> The shell stem looks quite long. Is it very heavy?



I have that shell on my Blur Black Panther and on this... photo and link to product in this post.  The shell is very comfortable.  

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2884#post-15036990


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> I have that shell on my Blur Black Panther and on this... photo and link to product in this post.  The shell is very comfortable.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2884#post-15036990



That is a very beautiful pair of earbuds...


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> That is a very beautiful pair of earbuds...



I know.  I have so many good ones... how am I supposed to give enough attention to each of them?  I need at least 50 hours a day.


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> I know.  I have so many good ones... how am I supposed to give enough attention to each of them?  I need at least 50 hours a day.



Tell me about it! And the less than ideal conditions of where I live makes it hard for me to store and maintain too many pairs. Plugs and cables start to oxidise or harden when not used often or stored over prolonged periods. Looks like I'll have to go through what I have and start going through my existing stash and do some spring cleaning...


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> Tell me about it! And the less than ideal conditions of where I live makes it hard for me to store and maintain too many pairs. Plugs and cables start to oxidise or harden when not used often or stored over prolonged periods. Looks like I'll have to go through what I have and start going through my existing stash and do some spring cleaning...



Is it spring where you are?  

Whenever I think about downsizing, I cannot find anything that I want to part with.


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> Whenever I think about downsizing, I cannot find anything that I want to part with.



common problem among all of us


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> common problem among all of us



... but haven't you parted with many?


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> ... but haven't you parted with many?



yes, but still with great effort 
i would love to keep them all, but i think it's better that others taking care of them


----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> Listening to one of my favorite albums with the B40's now (Beck - Morning Phase):
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Questions for those who are enjoying your new NiceHCK B40 earbuds - Did you get the NiceHCK ME80 during the previous sale, and if you did - can you compare the sound of the B40 to the ME80?  Thanks!


----------



## GREQ

Anyone elses ANN200's and Sabia Pearls' joining *'Club Green'*?   (it's _very _exclusive)


----------



## mbwilson111

GREQ said:


> Anyone elses ANN200's and Sabia Pearls' joining *'Club Green'*?   (it's _very _exclusive)



Oh no!  That is horrible.  My Pearl had better not do that!


----------



## GREQ

mbwilson111 said:


> Oh no!  That is horrible.  My Pearl had better not do that!


I already messaged the seller about it. 
He said it's actually fairly common/normal (not sure if that's true), but we both agreed that it doesn't make economic sense to post it back and forth, especially for the ANN200 which is an older product without any kind of warranty. He said he would honour a simple warranty of a replacement cable, but that even doing so is no guarantee of preventing it from happening again, so I saved us both the trouble and decided to brush up on my cable braiding skills instead (which is more fun anyway).


----------



## 40760

GREQ said:


> Anyone elses ANN200's and Sabia Pearls' joining *'Club Green'*?   (it's _very _exclusive)



My Cygnus already has slight oxidation at the cable areas near the plug and earpieces...


----------



## HungryPanda

My great sounding TY Hi-z 320's have donned their verdi green look


----------



## golov17

Love green ))


----------



## mbwilson111

golov17 said:


> Love green ))



Sorry, I think it looks ugly.  It would ok if it was meant to be green like a nice braid with green and black or green and blue..


----------



## waynes world

golov17 said:


> Love green ))



I love the smell of oxidization in the morning! And the sound of the Zen 1's (assuming that's what they are). edit: my cable isn't _quite_ as bad as that yet lol


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> Sorry, I think it looks ugly.  It would ok if it was meant to be green like a nice braid with green and black or green and blue..



I have to agree with you, but that's because I have severe OCD...


----------



## waynes world

palestofwhite said:


> Could not help but ordered 2 pairs of these since I love the original Kube v1.0 so much.
> 
> These fixes the cable issues I had with the original and also supposedly have improved tuning.



Let us know how they sound!



DBaldock9 said:


> Questions for those who are enjoying your new NiceHCK B40 earbuds - Did you get the NiceHCK ME80 during the previous sale, and if you did - can you compare the sound of the B40 to the ME80?  Thanks!



My lead ears aren't good at this, so take it with a pinch of salt, but here's my offhand impressions (off of Grace SDAC and Liquid Spark):

ME80 (donuts)
- more v shaped
- more bass
- more forward, less depth
- wide signature

B40 (full foams)
- more neutral
- less bass
- more refined highs?
- wide soundstage; maybe more depth
-  good imaging and instrument separation

I'd say the B40's are technically better, but they both sound great to me and I think I enjoy them both equally.


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> I'd say the B40's are technically better, but they both sound great to me and I think I enjoy them both equally.



Of the two I enjoy the B40 more because it fits me better.   The ME80 barely fits. It is a little too big so it causes some discomfort and does not feel as stable in my ear.  People with larger ear openings than mine would get a better fit.

I have not tried to compare the sound.


----------



## HungryPanda

DBaldock9 said:


> Questions for those who are enjoying your new NiceHCK B40 earbuds - Did you get the NiceHCK ME80 during the previous sale, and if you did - can you compare the sound of the B40 to the ME80?  Thanks!




 

ME80 is better then B40

ME80 Bass - More defined, cleaner
ME80 mids - again more defined, vocals , both male and female sound fuller. Saxophones and clarinets are more realistic
ME80 Highs Hi-hats are more realistic more defined

B40 Bass - quite powerful but bleeds and diffuses more
B40 Mids - Very good for Folk, Pop and Acoustic music
B40 Highs - Rather recessed, not annoying but not airy

Conclusion ME80 is more balanced overall, B40 is L-shaped


----------



## HighLevelDemon (Sep 11, 2019)

Willber said:


> IMO the B40 is far better than either the RY4S or Qian25 - it's in a different class. In fact it is better than anything else I own (see my sig), including my $200 K702. Large soundstage (width, depth and height) with superb separation and imaging. The signature is fairly neutral with great extension at both ends. Fast, tight bass, lush mids without being too warm, and sparkly non-sibilant highs. A really natural and realistic sound. At $10 they are an absolute bargain. In a word - absolutelybloodyfantastic!



Is there anyone here who prefers the RY4S UE over the B40? Just wondering. For me, it's hard to pick a favourite.


----------



## snowmind

@Willber 

Could you compare B40 and ME80?

Thanks


----------



## mbwilson111

snowmind said:


> @Willber
> 
> Could you compare B40 and ME80?
> 
> Thanks



So, the comparisons that others just posted on this page are not good enough for you.... lol.


----------



## bhima

Lucky Bag landed. Decent for $10 with a microphone. Tuning is a bit too warm and unbalanced in the mid-bass region. Sorta like a PortaPro but without the soundstage of a PortaPro. I like them better than my Willsound PKs that just collect dust, and I will definitely use them while driving because of the mic. I don't think they are anything truly special, but then again, it was under $10. Retail these should be no more than $20. Clie says $30 is where the sound is at and I'm not sure I agree with this. I think the NiceHK graphenes sound better for sure and they were cheaper than $30.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 11, 2019)

bhima said:


> Lucky Bag landed. Decent for $10 with a microphone. Tuning is a bit too warm and unbalanced in the mid-bass region. Sorta like a PortaPro but without the soundstage of a PortaPro. I like them better than my Willsound PKs that just collect dust, and I will definitely use them while driving because of the mic. I don't think they are anything truly special, but then again, it was under $10. Retail these should be no more than $20. Clie says $30 is where the sound is at and I'm not sure I agree with this. I think the NiceHK graphenes sound better for sure and they were cheaper than $30.



Have you burned them in yet and are you using foams.  To me they sound much better than what you are describing so I am just curious.   As for driving with earbuds, please do not do this.... for your own safety and the safety of others.  In many places that would actually be illegal.

I think they are kind of special


----------



## snowmind (Sep 11, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> So, the comparisons that others just posted on this page are not good enough for you.... lol.



Yes, they are excellent and we already have an idea. I always thank our friends. In Willber's case, he has several other earbuds, including the ME80, and confided that the B40 is the winner, but did not make a direct comparison as it appeared on this page - so i politely placed the order.


----------



## mbwilson111

snowmind said:


> Yes, they are excellent and we already have an idea. I always thank our friends. In Willber's case, he has several other earbuds, including the ME80, and confided that the B40 is the winner, but did not make a direct comparison as it appeared on this page - so i politely placed the order.



Have you seen how many those other guys have?  

Some of us have everything listed in our profiles but I have noticed that many people do not look.  

Also there seem to be a few people who do not fill out the information, or have not ticked whatever box needs to be ticked (or maybe unticked) to allow us to see the information.   I tried to look a certain users profile today and got the message "this member limits who can can read their profile"  ...something like that.


----------



## bhima (Sep 11, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Have you burned them in yet and are you using foams.  To me they sound much better than what you are describing so I am just curious.   As for driving with earbuds, please do not do this.... for your own safety and the safety of others.  In many places that would actually be illegal.
> 
> I think they are kind of special



Have not really burned them in. Doubtful their sound signature will change, nor will nuance details. I use the thin foams that I ordered from Aliexpress as they are my favorite foams. I tested with the included foams, but they were too thick and veiled the highs too much imo. The thin foams helped, but the sound signature is too warm and dull. At least it isn't sibilant! I'll burn them in anyways... its also possible that my brain has been attuned to my Shozy BK's as they are used the most at work.

As for driving with ear buds: I can hear everything around me with ear buds like this. Also, I drive an old Honda Civic that is no where near as well sealed as a new car. Dunno if you've been in a new BMW or Tesla, but I'd have to use active noise cancelling headphones to hear as little in the cabin as those cars without any headphones.

EDIT: The sound is getting brighter if I wear these over the ear--airier less resonant. Much more balanced now. The one con of earbuds in general is just how finnicky they can be due to fit  Will report back after a week or two of more usage and see if burn-in is a thing for these.


----------



## Narayan23

bhima said:


> Lucky Bag landed. Decent for $10 with a microphone. Tuning is a bit too warm and unbalanced in the mid-bass region. Sorta like a PortaPro but without the soundstage of a PortaPro. I like them better than my Willsound PKs that just collect dust, and I will definitely use them while driving because of the mic. I don't think they are anything truly special, but then again, it was under $10. Retail these should be no more than $20. Clie says $30 is where the sound is at and I'm not sure I agree with this. I think the NiceHK graphenes sound better for sure and they were cheaper than $30.



I have to disagree, just received mine today (no mic) and out of the box to me they sound better than the "Old" graphenes which have recessed mids in comparison, and on first comparison with the SR2 16 Ohm the B40 have much better resolution, they almost make the SR2 sound transistor radio like. For the money spent an absolute gem, for double the money spent also an absolute gem and an easy recommendation, I´m really glad I bought these.


----------



## bhima

Narayan23 said:


> I have to disagree, just received mine today (no mic) and out of the box to me they sound better than the "Old" graphenes which have recessed mids in comparison, and on first comparison with the SR2 16 Ohm the B40 have much better resolution, they almost make the SR2 sound transistor radio like. For the money spent an absolute gem, for double the money spent also an absolute gem and an easy recommendation, I´m really glad I bought these.



I'm coming around to this conclusion as well, but only when I wear them over the ear. The mid-bass isn't resonant anymore so that dulling of the lower treble is gone... they are airier now and the treble isn't recessed anymore either. Also the soundstage got bigger. They are closing in on being the most natural of my earbuds except for the Shozy BKs--Yincrows might edge them out ever so slightly, but I prefer these as I can't fit the Yincrows into my ears at all. Initial impressions were not great due to foams/fit. A problem I didn't have with the BKs but am aware of these problems because so many other buds I have are just more finnicky (Yincrows ESPECIALLY).


----------



## ounwx

HungryPanda said:


> ME80 is better then B40
> 
> ME80 Bass - More defined, cleaner
> ME80 mids - again more defined, vocals , both male and female sound fuller. Saxophones and clarinets are more realistic
> ...


Appreciate this type of description a ton, and wish it were a bit more prevalent in this thread when people talk about receiving new buds. Based on "recessed and not airy" highs, I feel comfortable passing on the B40!


----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> My lead ears aren't good at this, so take it with a pinch of salt, but here's my offhand impressions (off of Grace SDAC and Liquid Spark):
> 
> ME80 (donuts)
> - more v shaped
> ...





mbwilson111 said:


> Of the two I enjoy the B40 more because it fits me better.   The ME80 barely fits. It is a little too big so it causes some discomfort and does not feel as stable in my ear.  People with larger ear openings than mine would get a better fit.
> 
> I have not tried to compare the sound.



I was listening to some Jazz (on YouTube) this morning, with my ME80 earbuds (donut foams) connected to the 3.5mm TRS output on my Walnut F2 (OPA627 op-amps), operating as a USB DAC - and agree that they've got a wide "wall of sound" Sound Stage.
For $10, I think they do sound good, but I believe that the RYGMR RY4S (UE cable) may have better detail retrieval and overall clarity of instrument positioning - for about the same price.


----------



## Veyska

Don't s'pose anyone's got that pair of silicone covers that come with the Smabat-10 lying around gathering dust they'd be willing to sell cheap?  <-<  Found a couple listings on AE (I gave up on getting anything other than IEM tips and airpod stuff on eBay or Amazon) but if I can save a couple bucks and a few weeks...    Single foam/donut fits pretty decently (haven't had a chance to try it out on a walk yet though) and foam+donut on top is even snugger and more stable... but becomes uncomfortable and warm after 2-3 songs, fairly consistently.


----------



## phthora

mbwilson111 said:


> Some of us have everything listed in our profiles but I have noticed that many people do not look.



For real! The worst is then getting asked what gear you have (instead of them actually looking at the profile). Ugh. It's often extremely helpful to be able to see that information and I'm always disappointed when it's left blank. But, I think most people do a signature line at most.

Personally, I think @mbwilson111 @HungryPanda and @DBaldock9 have the most impressive and thorough profiles I've ever seen! I'm sure I'm not alone in saying, I really appreciate all that work!


----------



## waynes world

Willber said:


> First impressions: As you know, I'm a big fan of the SR2. But the B40 is better in every way after just a few hours' listening... I've already ordered another set.



I misplaced my SR2's but have found them. They probably only have 20 of the prerequisite 1000 hours of burn in on them lol, but I'm listening to them versus the B40's. The B40's are great, but to be honest, the SR2's seem more engaging to me - I can't believe they are going to improve even more with more hours on them.



jogawag said:


> What do you think of B40 compared to the SR2 16ohm's wide sound stage and bass?



I'll be interested in your thoughts!

p.s. it's fun having great "new kid on the block" budget buds like the B40's incoming to stir things up!


----------



## ClieOS

Smabat M1 Pro officially announced and taking presale order. Price is about US$56 or so, ETA is Sept. 15th.


----------



## Mhog55

ClieOS said:


> Smabat M1 Pro officially announced and taking presale order. Price is about US$56 or so, ETA is Sept. 15th.


These look really nice.


----------



## Mhog55

waynes world said:


> I misplaced my SR2's but have found them. They probably only have 20 of the prerequisite 1000 hours of burn in on them lol, but I'm listening to them versus the B40's. The B40's are great, but to be honest, the SR2's seem more engaging to me - I can't believe they are going to improve even more with more hours on them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1000 hours of burn in?!


----------



## DBaldock9

phthora said:


> For real! The worst is then getting asked what gear you have (instead of them actually looking at the profile). Ugh. It's often extremely helpful to be able to see that information and I'm always disappointed when it's left blank. But, I think most people do a signature line at most.
> 
> Personally, I think @mbwilson111 @HungryPanda and @DBaldock9 have the most impressive and thorough profiles I've ever seen! I'm sure I'm not alone in saying, I really appreciate all that work!



Thanks! I normally have 6 tabs open in my text editor, for the different sections of my Head-Fi profile - and just update them as I order or modify things. Then I copy the updates to my profile.


----------



## rkw

ClieOS said:


> Smabat M1 Pro officially announced and taking presale order.


But what about the *smabta*?


----------



## mbwilson111

phthora said:


> For real! The worst is then getting asked what gear you have (instead of them actually looking at the profile). Ugh. It's often extremely helpful to be able to see that information and I'm always disappointed when it's left blank. But, I think most people do a signature line at most.
> 
> Personally, I think @mbwilson111 @HungryPanda and @DBaldock9 have the most impressive and thorough profiles I've ever seen! I'm sure I'm not alone in saying, I really appreciate all that work!



You have some very helpful information in yours.  I wish I could do rankings like you do but I have a difficult time with that.


----------



## baskingshark

Hello, I am mainly an IEM guy, but would like to ask if u guys have any recommendation for earbuds.

Looking for something with wide soundstage like the senheissers (if possible). Budget max $100 USD, but prefably $50 price range would be good.
Prefer something not bright, with good bass quality and quantity. Preferably not too recessed mids.
And would like something with a very natural organic timbre, prefer no artificial sounding acoustic instruments.

Usually at home i use a Khadas tone board -> Fiio A3 amp.
On the go I use a Ziku HK-X9 DAP or Tempotec sonata HD to android.


Thank you all in advance for your kind input!


----------



## 40760

waynes world said:


> Let us know how they sound!



I think it will be quite some time before I receive them, as the black colour I wanted is still on the way to the seller.


----------



## seanc6441

assassin10000 said:


> Do you use EQ? I do, I add at least 4.5db to 31&62 hz on my ACG's, sometimes 8-12db depending on the track.
> 
> Between the ACG & the ST-10, for an all rounder I would choose the ST-10. For classical, acoustic and vocals the ACG.


That's how I ruined my Ourart Ti7... Be careful adding too much EQ. If you hear any clipping the driver can't handle it and mine developed a rattle.


----------



## XP_98 (Sep 12, 2019)

Could someone compare Moonbuds Super Nightingale with Moonbuds Phoenix Premium ? They are in the same price range (TOTL, and yes I also asked in "high end earbuds" thread  ) ...


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Sep 12, 2019)

Smabat M-1 Pro


Spoiler



desktop: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=602603015743
mob: https://h5.m.taobao.com/awp/core/detail.htm?id=602603015743&hybrid=true&toSite=main



OURART QJ21


Spoiler



https://www.1688.com/huo/detail-602...64788.zhaohuo-list-offerlist.2.2fc38440nIZWZf



MEMT X6S


Spoiler



https://penonaudio.com/memt-x6s.html
https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/4000060590568.html


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 12, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> OurArt QJ21, will be released in 2~3 weeks. MSRP around US$240. Those of you in US probably need to add another 10% of tariff


Seems like they are enlargening their titanium driver? Looks bigger but that could just be the picture. If it can produce much better low end than TI7 it'll be a winner.

Ourart already wins the midrange wars and the treble is well refined too.

That driver is interesting. Capable of producing such full bodied mids despite being quiet restrictive of airflow. Really quality driver though.

I still think a dual driver design would suit this driver immensely to help out the low end but I'm excited to see what ourart can do with a TOTL single driver earbud.


----------



## dharmasteve

Can anyone advise me on the Ourart ACG. I have the Rose Masya Mk 2 but wanted an earbud with a little more treble. Any advice on the ACG.


----------



## phthora

DBaldock9 said:


> Thanks! I normally have 6 tabs open in my text editor, for the different sections of my Head-Fi profile - and just update them as I order or modify things. Then I copy the updates to my profile.



lol... I believe it! I have a hard enough time with mine. I love that you've included price. I recently trawled through several profiles, yours included, to make a shortlist of earbuds to research and potentially buy. Knowing the prices you paid for things helped me figure out how good the AE prices were. Extremely helpful! 



mbwilson111 said:


> You have some very helpful information in yours.  I wish I could do rankings like you do but I have a difficult time with that.



Thanks! I always wonder if my ratings make sense to other people. Usually people just give everything they like 5 stars because it's "great for the price" (not to open up that can of worms again), but I ignore price and just go by sound. So, the 3-star Snow Lotus 1.0+ I got for 10 bucks are far more impressive that the 3-star DT770's I got for $120. Neither are the absolute best in terms of sound quality, but I do consider them on the same level. That way just makes more sense to me. I mean, what happens when the price changes, but all the ratings and impressions only reflect the older price? Not really helpful then. Anyway... as you can tell, I also have trouble with ratings. But, I want people to visit my profile and know what I've heard, what I own, what I think of that stuff, and what kind of FR I like. Then they can decide whether or not to take me seriously.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Sep 12, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> If it can produce much better low end than TI7 it'll be a winner.
> Ourart already wins the midrange wars and the treble is well refined too.



You have to try Smabat ST-10. It has a very depth midrange, and a very cool low. It sounds good with almost all genres, except perhaps an alternative metal or something like that, for this it is better to use Willsound MK2 or Kube v1, Sabia v7.

Select Comparisons:


Spoiler






> The *Penon BS1* is more balanced and displays a thicker, more robust sound with a stronger mid-bass presence. Clarity and detail is quite similar with the ST-10 giving the impression of being the better of the two thanks to it’s leaner note weight and additional treble emphasis. Bass depth goes to the ST-10 which gives off more sub-bass rumble. The BS1’s low end emphasis rolls off much earlier and lacks the physicality of the ST-10. The rest of the low end presentation of the ST-10 bests the BS1 as well since it is tighter and more textured. The BS1’s midrange is more prominent and engaging with a more natural tonality. Sound stage goes to the ST-10 which feels both wider and deeper and has a less intimate presentation. Imaging, layering, and separation is good on both. While I enjoy the BS1’s mid range more, the ST-10 makes for a more engaging listen. Plus, I don’t have to deal with the BS1’s heavy cable.





> *Rose Masya*_: _Where the ST-10 focuses on treble and bass, the Masya places it’s focus on the mid range and treble. Both have a somewhat lean note presentation. While the Masya’s mid range is more forward and vocals certainly have more presence, I also find it is mildly sibilant where there is none on the ST-10. ST-10’s bass digs deeper and has more grunt, but falls short on texture and control compared to the Masya. Treble is thinner and more prickly on the ST-10 but comes across more refined. Makes sense given the two+ years that separate their release dates. Sound stage of the Masya is slightly wider but not as deep, though it places the listener closer to the performance giving it a more immediately intimate feel. Overall I prefer the presentation of the Masya and think it is worth the extra 10 USD. It’s more comfortable for me as well.





> The *Ourart Ti7*s are as unique in design as the ST-10s and have in common that both have twin brothers in shape. In sound they may have some similarity in the presentation of the same, because both bet on balance, showing more neutral Ti7. Meanwhile, the ST-10 are more compensated and extend more at the ends, offering greater presence of bass and, above all, sub-bass. In treble they also provide more brightness, sparkle and brio, the Ti7 being more restrained. But the Ti7 are unbeatable in the central zone, there is nothing that can obscure them: they have greater clarity, a more detailed sound even, gaining also in micro detail and definition, showing a more analytical profile, in front of the warmth and depth of the ST-10. The scene is wider on the Ti7 but flatter, while the ST-10 show off their greater depth to recreate an oval and diverse scene.





> *NiceHCK EBX* is an incredible sounding earbuds, and a serious high end contender fairly priced 120$. Built as well as sound is top notch so let see if the ST-10 can compete with such a fabulous top or the line champion.
> 
> SOUNDSTAGE is seriously more wide, tall and airy than the more intimate sounding ST-10, EBX is hall like sounding while the ST-10 is more studio room sounding.
> 
> ...


----------



## waynes world

Mhog55 said:


> 1000 hours of burn in?!



Oops, one zero too many lol! Apparently though the seller has recommended 100+ hours.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 12, 2019)

Alex.Grimm said:


> You have to try Smabat ST-10. It has a very depth midrange, and a very cool low. It sounds good with almost all genres, except perhaps an alternative metal or something like that, for this it is better to use Willsound MK2 or Kube v1, Sabia v7.
> 
> Select Comparisons:


Not a fan of bright/lean mids earbuds. I tend to aim for earbuds with more full bodied sound like bs1, ti7, docomo buds type of signature. I don't mind some treble emphasis but I hate when the mids are lean. Ti7 definitely has lovely mids (the vocal range is the best I've heard, only the driver of my K's ling can produce similar quality of vocals) but bass depth isn't anywhere near the level I enjoy. Bs1 has really good mids as does the cygnus/docomo buds too.

I'd probably like the bass of the st-10 but i think the mids wouldn't be my cup of tea. If an earbud needs to boost the presence region and dip the low mids to achieve clarity then it's not for me. I prefer neutral to warm mids for sure. Besides I haven't been using earbuds for months, it was aggravating my tinnitus there for awhile. Might try ease my way back slowly at low volumes.

I'm trying to catch up with this thread but I've got like 100 pages to get through lol!


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> . I don't mind some treble emphasis but I hate when the mids are lean.



Lean mids on the ST-10?  Not to my ears.  Using full foams with donuts on top as recommended by @ClieOS


----------



## seanc6441

phixion said:


> Well, I stuck my earbuds up for sale. I'd rather not have them just sit in a drawer and not get used.
> 
> Maybe one day we will get a nice earbud with an EarPod type shell, until then I guess I will stick to my EarPods when I don't need isolation.


Did you try a pk earbud? If a pk earbud doesn't fit you then I'm confident earbuds just arent for you.

Pk buds are universally praised for being comfortable and erogonomic fitting to most ear shapes and sizes.

But maybe you are in the 1% here that they won't fit for you.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 12, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Lean mids on the ST-10?  Not to my ears.  Using full foams with donuts on top as recommended by @ClieOS


I find that doubling foams reduces treble  and might or might not improve the seal for stronger bass (really depends on the individuals ear) but does nothing for vocal body. I do find that alternating between donut and full foam can have an effect but generally if an earbud doesn't have a good presence in the midrange from 300-2000hz there's just nothing foams can do. EQ or internal modding is next step then.

Infact i find the further you place the driver from your ear via foams (double being slightly further than regular and thin foams) that the vocal range actually becomes thinner.

There's a lot of praised buds around here for clarity and soundstage that I really don't like at all. I'd say its a personal preference but for me tonality and balance means so much more than emphasised detail. Ideally you want both but you usually don't get that in most earbuds. Of course there are some exceptions and there's always diy earbuds that have the potential to sound great.


----------



## assassin10000

seanc6441 said:


> That's how I ruined my Ourart Ti7... Be careful adding too much EQ. If you hear any clipping the driver can't handle it and mine developed a rattle.



I'm aware of that. I've had no clipping with up to 17db added to the bass below 80hz. I bought a spare pair just in case  . I think the fact I'm driving them from a mobile phone or my BT20S is keeping them from the damage you saw with your LG/etc. as it may not have the power to damage them. I don't have a higher powered source I'd use them with, except maybe for my laptop which I don't EQ on.





dharmasteve said:


> Can anyone advise me on the Ourart ACG. I have the Rose Masya Mk 2 but wanted an earbud with a little more treble. Any advice on the ACG.



I have the ACG, but not the Masya v2. I'm not sure of anyone that has both of the top of my head.




seanc6441 said:


> Not a fan of bright/lean mids earbuds. I tend to aim for earbuds with more full bodied sound like bs1, ti7, docomo buds type of signature. I don't mind some treble emphasis but I hate when the mids are lean. Ti7 definitely has lovely mids (the vocal range is the best I've heard, only the driver of my K's ling can produce similar quality of vocals) but bass depth isn't anywhere near the level I enjoy. Bs1 has really good mids as does the cygnus/docomo buds too.
> 
> I'd probably like the bass of the st-10 but i think the mids wouldn't be my cup of tea. If an earbud needs to boost the presence region and dip the low mids to achieve clarity then it's not for me. I prefer neutral to warm mids for sure. Besides I haven't been using earbuds for months, it was aggravating my tinnitus there for awhile. Might try ease my way back slowly at low volumes.
> 
> I'm trying to catch up with this thread but I've got like 100 pages to get through lol!



The ST-10 isn't bright in the mids, its more neutral. It's kind of taken over from the ACG for my daily listening. I'm not sure if you have anyone local'ish to you that has them (and willing to let you try them).



Yeah, the new Ourart looks interesting (or has interesting looks). I'm doubting the open face design will provide more bass than the TI7/ACG, but we'll see once a review or two happens.


----------



## mbwilson111

seanc6441 said:


> I find that doubling foams reduces treble  and might or might not improve the seal for stronger bass (really depends on the individuals ear) but does nothing for vocal body.
> 
> Infact i find the further you place the driver from your ear via foams (double being slightly further than regular and thin foams) that the vocal range actually becomes thinner.
> 
> There's a lot of praised buds around here for clarity and soundstage that I really don't like at all. I'd say its a personal preference but for me tonality and balance means so much more than emphasised detail. Ideally you want both but you usually don't get that in most earbuds. Of course there are some exceptions and there's always diy earbuds that have the potential to sound great.



Unless you have listen to these, do not make assumptions.  Tonality and balance are important to me.  Vocals are extremely important as are the correct tonality of instruments.


----------



## seanc6441

mbwilson111 said:


> Unless you have listen to these, do not make assumptions.  Tonality and balance are important to me.  Vocals are extremely important as are the correct tonality of instruments.


It's not assumptions so much as personal preference.

I cannot be sure how the st-10 sounds but im sure about my own preference here and not willing to spend that much on the st-10 to find out.

In the reviews I read the st-10 is compared to some earbuds i own and any time the mids are compared the st-10 is always stated as leaner (bs1 for example, maysa too).

Maybe I'll try the mini version when it releases, since i prefer the smaller size anyway. Oh and i don't like wearing earbuds over ear which the st-10 is design for as the primary method. So I'm gonna pass on this one.


----------



## dharmasteve

assassin10000 said:


> I'm aware of that. I've had no clipping with up to 17db added to the bass below 80hz. I bought a spare pair just in case  . I think the fact I'm driving them from a mobile phone or my BT20S is keeping them from the damage you saw with your LG/etc. as it may not have the power to damage them. I don't have a higher powered source I'd use them with, except maybe for my laptop which I don't EQ on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What is the general sound profile of the Ourart ACG. Would appreciate some feedback if poss. Thanks


----------



## snowmind

Friends, has your Qian69 improved over time? I find his sound very midcentric and square yet.

It is a bud with excellent rating on audiobudget.com.


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> ...



To me the biggest improvement by far is getting rid of all the sharp corners from old Ti7 housing.


----------



## ClieOS

Just noticed this from K's Taobao shop on pre-sale. The name translate to either "smurf' or 'blue elf' 

Price is around $240, so probably another top-tier level earbuds.


----------



## dharmasteve

I need a little help. I want to make a choice from Hifiboy Dream.....Ourart ACG....Musicmaker Ting.....and Musicmaker Tomahawk, or anything better in that £50 price range. I have about £50 that I can use. Any suggestions or sound descriptions really welcomed.


----------



## waynes world

waynes world said:


> I misplaced my SR2's but have found them. They probably only have 20 of the prerequisite 1000 hours of burn in on them lol, but I'm listening to them versus the B40's. The B40's are great, but to be honest, the SR2's seem more engaging to me - I can't believe they are going to improve even more with more hours on them.



The B40's are very fit dependent. When I press them slightly in my ears, they sound much fuller (and closer to the SR2's). I am now trying the full foams plus donuts on top, and that seems to be producing a better fit and sound for me.


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> Just noticed this from K's Taobao shop on pre-sale. The name translate to either "smurf' or 'blue elf'
> 
> Price is around $240, so probably another top-tier level earbuds.


Looks very much like the k's LBB, similar shell design. I think the bell series looks much more premium than this... The color is nice though.


----------



## jogawag (Sep 12, 2019)

baskingshark said:


> Hello, I am mainly an IEM guy, but would like to ask if u guys have any recommendation for earbuds.
> 
> Looking for something with wide soundstage like the senheissers (if possible). Budget max $100 USD, but prefably $50 price range would be good.
> Prefer something not bright, with good bass quality and quantity. Preferably not too recessed mids.
> ...



Recommendation for earbuds with budget max $100 USD, with wide soundstage, not bright sound, good bass quality and quantity,  in aliexpress...

-HE 150ohm ($14 USD https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32761965304.html)
-Smabat ST-10 ($99 USD)

I could not find appropriate earbuds at $50 price range.


----------



## waynes world

jogawag said:


> Recommendation for earbuds with budget max $100 USD, with wide soundstage, not bright sound, good bass quality and quantity,  in aliexpress...
> 
> -HE 150 ($15 USD)
> -Smabat ST-10 ($99 USD)
> ...



Do you mean HP 150?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 12, 2019)

jogawag said:


> Recommendation for earbuds with budget max $100 USD, with wide soundstage, not bright sound, good bass quality and quantity,  in aliexpress...
> 
> -HE 150ohm ($14 USD https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32761965304.html)
> -Smabat ST-10 ($99 USD)
> ...




You prefer the HE non pro version?

I have the HE 150PRO

Weird..I just noticed the two versions have different shells.


----------



## jogawag (Sep 12, 2019)

waynes world said:


> Do you mean HP 150?


No, I mean HE 150ohm. I modify the name and added Link.



mbwilson111 said:


> You prefer the HE non pro version?
> 
> I have the HE 150PRO
> 
> Weird..I just noticed the two versions have different shells.


I prefer 150ohm(non pro version) than pro version(I have broken it).
And I think that HE 150ohm(non pro version) is more appropriate for his request.


----------



## AudioNoob

Hello all, if any of you has the headroom ms16, could you check if this sweep track starts with just distortion until it hits the 20-30hz? Mine does severely, wanted to check before getting a replacement. Also, if any of you has both the ms16 and the new B40, would appreciate a comparison. Looking for something with a little more resolution


or this


----------



## tnelmo

Which of the current offerings of ultra-low budget (~$10) earbuds with the smaller shells (smaller than Monk+ type) have the heaviest bass?  I'd like to try the smaller form factor.


----------



## Mhog55

tnelmo said:


> Which of the current offerings of ultra-low budget (~$10) earbuds with the smaller shells (smaller than Monk+ type) have the heaviest bass?  I'd like to try the smaller form factor.


Whichever will give you the best seal. Maybe take a look at the Ty Hi-z 150 ohm. Decent sub and mid bass for 20 bucks.


----------



## RobinFood

AudioNoob said:


> Hello all, if any of you has the headroom ms16, could you check if this sweep track starts with just distortion until it hits the 20-30hz? Mine does severely, wanted to check before getting a replacement. Also, if any of you has both the ms16 and the new B40, would appreciate a comparison. Looking for something with a little more resolution
> 
> 
> or this




My MS16s sound fine with those tracks. Maybe try blowing in them first to reseat the drivers.
My MS16s are kind of old and somewhat abused. I checked if they were really open-air when I had too much to drink and blew too hard, and heard some bad driver flex.
They still run like champs though, and had no issues going the the sweep tracks.


----------



## Mhog55

Okie doki. I've decided I want a pair of mmcx that's good for wearing cable down, rather than over the ear. I like to use the wing tips, and the Ty Hi-z fits me very well. Again, rock and hard rock are my jams. Willing to spend 100 bucks. There's just too many to choose from, and no way to listen to them. The new Smabat M1 coming out looks about perfect, but obviously we don't know what they sound like. Really, I just want to know which buds with detachable cable are comfortable to wear cable down. What should I be looking for as to where the cables attach to the earbuds?


----------



## toear

jogawag said:


> Recommendation for earbuds with budget max $100 USD, with wide soundstage, not bright sound, good bass quality and quantity,  in aliexpress...
> 
> -HE 150ohm ($14 USD https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32761965304.html)
> -Smabat ST-10 ($99 USD)
> ...



I would consider the HE 150 Pro. I have both versions and the pro is better overall sq, IMHO.


----------



## tnelmo

Mhog55 said:


> Whichever will give you the best seal. Maybe take a look at the Ty Hi-z 150 ohm. Decent sub and mid bass for 20 bucks.



Thanks for your suggestion.  From the photo, the Ty Hi-Z 150 looks like a mx500 shell.


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> Looks very much like the k's LBB, similar shell design. I think the bell series looks much more premium than this... The color is nice though.



It looks the same to me. The shape of the housing across the Bell series (including the LBB) are all the same, the difference is in the materiel (i.e. Bell-Ti uses titanium while LBB uses aluminum) as well as the strain relief.


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> It looks the same to me. The shape of the housing across the Bell series (including the LBB) are all the same, the difference is in the materiel (i.e. Bell-Ti uses titanium while LBB uses aluminum) as well as the strain relief.


The cable looks a bit bland for $240 as well. If I saw this product at first glance I'd say its the LBB v2 blue version.

Compared to the bell-ti and Ling earbuds which actually look like expensive products.

It's $240 right? That wasn't a typo? XD


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> The cable looks a bit bland for $240 as well. If I saw this product at first glance I'd say its the LBB v2 blue version.
> 
> Compared to the bell-ti and Ling earbuds which actually look like expensive products.
> 
> It's $240 right? That wasn't a typo? XD



Not a typo, it is indeed $240. You are right though the Bell-Ti uses pure silver cable, where LBB is either OFC or SPOFC IIRC. There is no spec on the new blue earbuds yet, except that it is 33ohm.


----------



## jogawag

toear said:


> I would consider the HE 150 Pro. I have both versions and the pro is better overall sq, IMHO.



I also had both before. (But now the pro version is broken.)
The pro version has a brighter sound, less bass, more average, IMO.
So, HE 150ohm (non pro version) is more appropriate for the request.


----------



## mochill

Who has shozy xb


----------



## 40760

mochill said:


> Who has shozy xb



Let's buy it...


----------



## assassin10000

dharmasteve said:


> What is the general sound profile of the Ourart ACG. Would appreciate some feedback if poss. Thanks



Excellent mids, good highs and soundstage. Still a favorite, kinda going back and forth between it and the ST-10. In a quiet environment it to me is better than the ST-10 but out and about the ST-10.

Bass can be good if you have a great seal for earbuds but typically is a bit lacking. I think this is due to the large open face design, which allows a lot more air to escape around the circumference of it.



ClieOS said:


> Just noticed this from K's Taobao shop on pre-sale. The name translate to either "smurf' or 'blue elf'
> 
> Price is around $240, so probably another top-tier level earbuds.



I wish they made their buds with a mmcx option, they look good and according to reviews seem to sound good/great.




tnelmo said:


> Which of the current offerings of ultra-low budget (~$10) earbuds with the smaller shells (smaller than Monk+ type) have the heaviest bass?  I'd like to try the smaller form factor.



Only one I know of the smaller yuin/pk shell under $10 is the Nicehck B40.

For $12-15 there is the DIY SR2 16ohm bud from Chitty on AE.




Mhog55 said:


> Whichever will give you the best seal. Maybe take a look at the Ty Hi-z 150 ohm. Decent sub and mid bass for 20 bucks.



Thats an mx500 style bud. He's looking for smaller yuin/pk.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Sep 13, 2019)

baskingshark said:


> $50 price range would be good.



I heard that these are good at this price

TY Hi-Z AWK-F150TS
BBB v2

but you should find out from the reviews or ask who has it


----------



## assassin10000

Mhog55 said:


> Okie doki. I've decided I want a pair of mmcx that's good for wearing cable down, rather than over the ear. I like to use the wing tips, and the Ty Hi-z fits me very well. Again, rock and hard rock are my jams. Willing to spend 100 bucks. There's just too many to choose from, and no way to listen to them. The new Smabat M1 coming out looks about perfect, but obviously we don't know what they sound like. Really, I just want to know which buds with detachable cable are comfortable to wear cable down. What should I be looking for as to where the cables attach to the earbuds?



Typically you would look for a relatively centered attachment point. PT15, PT25, TI7, ACG, BK2, etc.


----------



## jogawag (Sep 13, 2019)

Edit: deleted.


----------



## dharmasteve

assassin10000 said:


> Excellent mids, good highs and soundstage. Still a favorite, kinda going back and forth between it and the ST-10. In a quiet environment it to me is better than the ST-10 but out and about the ST-10.
> 
> Bass can be good if you have a great seal for earbuds but typically is a bit lacking. I think this is due to the large open face design, which allows a lot more air to escape around the circumference of it.



Just pulled the trigger on the Ourart ACG. Sounds interesting. Will give it a lot of burn in when they arrive and give some general impressions. Thanks for your response.
Steve


----------



## mbwilson111

Mhog55 said:


> Whichever will give you the best seal. Maybe take a look at the Ty Hi-z 150 ohm. Decent sub and mid bass for 20 bucks.



That is a Monk-type shell which he did not want.   The majority of buds seem to use that MX500 shell.


----------



## mochill

He should get the shozy xb then


----------



## 40760

Just received the B40 and using them with VE donut foams. Honestly they're pretty good for the price...


----------



## AudioNoob

Any budget ones with mic with more clarity than headroom ms16? Is the b40 this way? Looking for flat/balanced, perhaps mid forward but without too much high roll-off


----------



## Willber

AudioNoob said:


> Any budget ones with mic with more clarity than headroom ms16? Is the b40 this way? Looking for flat/balanced, perhaps mid forward but without too much high roll-off


I own both and the B40 offers just what you want.


----------



## Willber

assassin10000 said:


> I don't have a higher powered source I'd use them with, except maybe for my laptop which I don't EQ on.


Is there any reason you don't EQ on your laptop? If it uses Windows, PEACE/APO is excellent:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/peace-equalizer-apo-extension/


----------



## assassin10000

Willber said:


> Is there any reason you don't EQ on your laptop? If it uses Windows, PEACE/APO is excellent:
> 
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/peace-equalizer-apo-extension/



Mostly because I hardly use it for music/movies.


----------



## Willber

assassin10000 said:


> Mostly because I hardly use it for music/movies.


OK, but it's an option if you need more power.


----------



## AudioNoob

Willber said:


> I own both and the B40 offers just what you want.


I'm one earbud richer. Thanks for the info


----------



## caracal

Could somebody please compare b40 with snow lotus 1.0 plus?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 14, 2019)

caracal said:


> Could somebody please compare b40 with snow lotus 1.0 plus?



Hi, do you already have one of these and want to know how the other compares?  If so, what do you have?  Also are you talking about the original Snow Lotus 1.0 plus or are you talking about the Snow Lotus 1.0 plus commemorative edition (the blue one)? 

Keep in mind that the Snow Lotus uses an MX500 shell and the B40 uses the smaller PK shell.  What fits you best?  Fit affects the sound.

Edit:  what sources do you use?  phone, DAP,  laptop, desktop gear?   Between my husband and myself, we have several Faaeals but should try to compare using similar equipment to yours.


----------



## seanc6441

Some earbuds to be shipped out: Modded Shozy Cygnus w/ MMCX and SPC cable (toneking to600 cable).

Tuned for full or donut foams (VE donut sounds great on these as does full foams).

Awhile back I was sent these for a repair job as the cable was broken and the inner tuning foam was mostly disintegrated (seems to be a regular thing with shozy earbuds). So now they get a second life and a bit of an upgrade lol.

@Tayyab Pirzada  may post a review once he receives them.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 14, 2019)

caracal said:


> Could somebody please compare b40 with snow lotus 1.0 plus?


@Willber  owns both I believe, he might be able to give you that info.

I only own the Snow Lotus 1.0+ CE. It's bass is quiet average, lacking a bit in quantity and not as tight/refined as I would like. The mids quite neutral, maybe slightly lean and not mid forward but not overly recessed. The treble is the highlight if you enjoy some sparkle and air in the highs. Again it's a leaner sounding treble as the lower treble is not too emphasised but the extension and refinement is good.

Over all not my cup of tea (although i do like the extra air and extension in the treble) but a good earbud if you prefer articulated neutral mids and highs over a full bodied and warmer sound. I do wish the bass was more impactful and tighter, then the balance would be better to counter the slightly leaner mids and highs.

They sound a bit like my beyer dt1350, just without the excellent deep and tight bass response of that headphone.


----------



## caracal (Sep 14, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Hi, do you already have one of these and want to know how the other compares?  If so, what do you have?  Also are you talking about the original Snow Lotus 1.0 plus or are you talking about the Snow Lotus 1.0 plus commemorative edition (the one with the blue cable)?
> 
> Keep in mind that the Snow Lotus uses an MX500 shell and the B40 uses the smaller PK shell.  What fits you best?  Fit affects the sound.
> 
> Edit:  what sources do you use?  phone, DAP,  laptop, desktop gear?   Between my husband and myself, we have several Faaeals but should try to compare using similar equipment to yours.



I've got Snow Lotus 1.0 plus commemorative edition. Haven't used a PK-shells yet, but MX can fall out of the ear only while in motion.
I use  a PC via creative soundcard and Meizu pro 6 plus.
Would appreciate your help


----------



## seanc6441

caracal said:


> I've got Snow Lotus 1.0 plus commemorative edition. Haven't use a PK-shells yet, but MX can fall out of the ear only while in motion.
> I use  a PC via creative soundcard and Meizu pro 6 plus.
> Would appreciate your help


What would like to change/improve about the sound of your snow lotus, i own it myself and could point you in a general direction if you were to describe what you like or dislike about its sound.


----------



## mbwilson111

caracal said:


> I've got Snow Lotus 1.0 plus commemorative edition. Haven't use a PK-shells yet, but MX can fall out of the ear only while in motion.
> I use  a PC via creative soundcard and Meizu pro 6 plus.
> Would appreciate your help



If you would like to try a PK shelled bud without spending much I think the B40 is an excellent choice.


----------



## caracal (Sep 14, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> What would like to change/improve about the sound of your snow lotus, i own it myself and could point you in a general direction if you were to describe what you like or dislike about its sound.


I agree in terms of bass quantity and tightness.
SL 1.0 plus is quite enjoyable to listen, but i'd prefer more lows.
I like my vidos a lot, ordered tc200 and want to try something new with warm sound in the price range of 10-15$


----------



## Willber (Sep 14, 2019)

caracal said:


> Could somebody please compare b40 with snow lotus 1.0 plus?


I retired my SL 1.0+ (CE) early because I preferred the 1.0 (one of my favourites) so haven't listened to them for a while. I found the 1.0+ to be technically good but not as natural sounding as the 1.0. But as I like the B40 more than both of them I suggest you get those, although it's very subjective.


----------



## caracal (Sep 14, 2019)

Willber said:


> I retired my SL 1.0+ (CE) early because I preferred the 1.0 (one of my favourites) so haven't listened to them for a while. I found the 1.0+ to be technically good but not as natural sounding as the 1.0. But as I like the B40 more than both of them I suggest you get those.


Could you please compare all three in terms of bass?

Edit: Guess I'll order B40 at least to try PK shells


----------



## HungryPanda

Bass is more elevated on the NicHCK B40 compared to the Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0+ CE. The B40 is more lively, I have to agree with @Willber the Original Snow Lotus is closer to the B40 than the Plus


----------



## Willber (Sep 14, 2019)

caracal said:


> Could you please compare all three in terms of bass?


Sorry, my 1.0+ are packed away, but from memory I would say the 1.0+ has the most bass quantity but the B40 has more quality and control. The 1.0 falls somewhere in between.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 14, 2019)

caracal said:


> I agree in terms of bass quantity and tightness.
> SL 1.0 plus is quite enjoyable to listen, but i'd prefer more lows.
> I like my vidos a lot, ordered tc200 and want to try something new with warm sound in a price range of 10-15$


Can't go wrong with the kube v1. More linear bass than the vido with similar quantity. For me the kube bass is slightly cleaner in the mid bass. More full bodied mids and smoother highs. Could be said to lack some detail because of the relaxed presence region. But there's no major dips or offensive peaks. Worn with thin foams the sound becomes more neutral and more clear with a hint of warmth, but full or donut foams give you that bass thump.


----------



## Willber (Sep 14, 2019)

caracal said:


> Could you please compare all three in terms of bass?
> 
> Edit: Guess I'll order B40 at least to try PK shells


If you haven't tried the PK shell that's a good place to start. I find them more comfortable that the generic MX500 shell. And the B40 is my favourite of my PK buds.

Edit: Actually, the B40 is my favourite of *all* my phones, and my spare has just arrived.


----------



## seanc6441

The b40 having one port closed may sound similar to a stock docomo or shozy cygnus driver in the same setup. I tried closing one vent on the cygnus i was modding with some blu-tack. Coupled with an open 1.5mm bass port on the stem and sealed cable port.

The result is a stronger bass response with a surprising amount of thump around 50-75hz. Infact it was a near perfect bass response for earbuds. Tight, punchy and full bodied. With enough depth to satisfy.

The issue was however, you lose some soundstage over having both vents open. It sounded a little congested but i really loved the frequency response in that setup.

In the end I couldn't justify the lack of space in the staging, so i left both open and coupled with the right amount of damping the soundstage and separatation was more than adequate, infact the cygnus has excellent separation once you tame it's mid bass.

The bass depth is still there, but the punchy bass around 50-75hz is subdued slightly.

So I'm guessing the b40 may struggle with soundstage/spaciousness with only one vent open.

Can anyone confirm does the b40 sound less spacious than other pk buds with both vents open?


----------



## HungryPanda

The sound stage of the B40 is ok but certainly not the widest


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 14, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> The sound stage of the B40 is ok but certainly not the widest



That would have been my guess.

I managed to squeeze quiet a bit of soundstage out of the cygnus by adding extra dampening behind some of the drivers back venting and by using paper filter and very porous tuning foam on the back vent. Coupled with VE donuts of full foams, you get a moderate amount of bass depth,similar to that of the diy pk SR2, but a very clean and well separated mids and highs.

Slightly more so than the stock cygnus tuning which had a more dense single tunning foams on the shell and almost non existant driver dampening with gave quiet a strong mid bass emphasis and warm mids. Enjoyable but not aiding in the soundstage width.


----------



## Willber (Sep 14, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> So I'm guessing the b40 may struggle with soundstage/spaciousness with only one vent open.
> 
> Can anyone confirm does the b40 sound less spacious than other pk buds with both vents open?


My B40 has a similar soundstage (width, depth and height) to the SR2 and greater than the DIY EMX500 PK2 and NiceHCK PK2, all of which have both vents open. The superb imaging and layering possibly make it sound bigger than it is, though, IMO.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 14, 2019)

Willber said:


> My B40 has a similar soundstage (width, depth and height) to the SR2 and greater than the DIY EMX500 PK2 and NiceHCK PK2, all of which have both vents open. The superb imaging and layering possibly make it sound bigger than it is, though, IMO.


Using blu tack to open/close the bottom vent at the back, the difference was subtle but I could hear where the soundstage ended as it had a more closed off sound. Opening it allowed the sound to travel further which did sound slightly more open and wider.

It was one of those things where you have to choose between 10% more soundstage or 10% more bass punch so it's really not a huge deal but with an earbud that already has issues with staging i thought it would be best to allow it some breathing room.

If you aren't hearing that difference on the b40 i would assume its because the b40 is dampened behind the driver more than your typical docomo driver.

I mean the b40 driver might be different and has a completely different frequency response, which could also be a factor.


----------



## seanc6441

Speaking of docomo/pk type drivers, has anyone made a diy earbud using the pk sr2 PRO drivers?

That will probably be my next build, i have a pair sitting around and still have not listened to them yet.


----------



## Willber (Sep 14, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> If you aren't hearing that difference on the b40 i would assume its because the b40 is dampened behind the driver more than your typical docomo driver.
> 
> I mean the b40 driver might be different and has a completely different frequency response, which could also be a factor.


I have not idea what they have done inside (and I'm not going to take it apart to find out!) but what hey have achieved is great both sonically and spatially. I presume the quality of the driver has a lot to do with it. Perhaps @ClieOS can shed some light on it as he had a hand in their tuning, didn't he?


----------



## seanc6441

Willber said:


> I have not idea what they have done inside (and I'm not going to take it apart to find out!) but what hey have achieved is great both sonically and spatially. I presume the quality of the driver has a lot to do with it. Perhaps @ClieOS can shed some light on it as he had a hand in their tuning, didn't he?


If he's willing to answer we are all ears 

I wish there was an easy way to let you hear the cygnus I re-tuned and in turn let me hear the b40. Imagine how much speculation would be cleared up if we could just hear everyones gear!

I'd ask nicehck but most sellers don't give out much information and the language barrier can be tricky sometimes especially when you are asking unusual questions lol


----------



## jogawag

seanc6441 said:


> Speaking of docomo/pk type drivers, has anyone made a diy earbud using the pk sr2 PRO drivers?
> 
> That will probably be my next build, i have a pair sitting around and still have not listened to them yet.



If you mean SR Pro driver, I made a diy earbud with SR Pro drivers.
The diy earbud with SR Pro drivers has stronger treble and bass than one with SR2 drivers. And They have similar wide sound stage.


----------



## assassin10000 (Sep 14, 2019)

> Typically you would look for a relatively centered attachment point. PT15, PT25, TI7, ACG, BK2, etc.



@Mhog55 forgot to mention the toneking earbuds to65, to180, to200, t0400 & to600.

I don't have any of those, though others here do.




seanc6441 said:


> Some earbuds to be shipped out: Modded Shozy Cygnus w/ MMCX and SPC cable (toneking to600 cable).



Makes me want to try and do it to a pair of my pk buds as well. Maybe a hair shorter on the stem for me.


----------



## mbwilson111

assassin10000 said:


> @Mhog55 forgot to mention the toneking earbuds to65, to180, to200, t0400 & to600.
> 
> I don't have any of those though others here do.



I have not had the TO180 very long but I love what I have heard so far.  I have never seen anyone mention the TO65 but the others have been discussed quite a bit.


----------



## caracal

seanc6441 said:


> Can't go wrong with the kube v1. More linear bass than the vido with similar quantity. For me the kube bass is slightly cleaner in the mid bass. More full bodied mids and smoother highs. Could be said to lack some detail because of the relaxed presence region. But there's no major dips or offensive peaks. Worn with thin foams the sound becomes more neutral and more clear with a hint of warmth, but full or donut foams give you that bass thump.


I wanted to buy kubes once but they were only available through ebay and were out of stock. I'll order a pair soon.
Maybe you can also recommend something from aliexpress?


----------



## waynes world

@caracal +1 for both the Kube v1 and the b40.


----------



## Willber

caracal said:


> I wanted to buy kubes once but they were only available through ebay and were out of stock. I'll order a pair soon.
> Maybe you can also recommend something from aliexpress?


Try the Fengru Silver. Very highly regarded on here and I once described them as a "Kube v1 with more refinement":

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32976559582.html


----------



## caracal

Willber said:


> Try the Fengru Silver. Very highly regarded on here and I once described them as a "Kube v1 with more refinement":
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32976559582.html


Oh I wrote on the previous page that already ordered them 
You think they sound a bit better than kubes? They are like twice cheaper as well.


----------



## Willber

caracal said:


> Oh I wrote on the previous page that already ordered them
> You think they sound a bit better than kubes? They are like twice cheaper as well.


I missed that you'd ordered them. I prefer them to the Kube and for a while they were my favourite buds regardless of price. I've got three of them.


----------



## ClieOS

Willber said:


> I have not idea what they have done inside (and I'm not going to take it apart to find out!) but what hey have achieved is great both sonically and spatially. I presume the quality of the driver has a lot to do with it. Perhaps @ClieOS can shed some light on it as he had a hand in their tuning, didn't he?



Can't really tell you much - I only listened to the prototypes and tell them which part of the SQ I think can be improved / reduced. The guys at the factory then re-tune based on my suggestion - no idea as for how / what they actually did. Unlike what most of us DIYer do to tune earbuds, mainly involve just shell mod, those in factory can change a lot more, including the diaphragm, coil, and magnet combination.


----------



## Willber

ClieOS said:


> Can't really tell you much - I only listened to the prototypes and tell them which part of the SQ I think can be improved / reduced. The guys at the factory then re-tune based on my suggestion - no idea as for how / what they actually did. Unlike what most of us DIYer do to tune earbuds, mainly involve just shell mod, those in factory can change a lot more, including the diaphragm, coil, and magnet combination.


Thanks anyway, whatever you/they did turned out very well!


----------



## robar (Sep 14, 2019)

I've received the Fengru Silver today. I have to admit it's pretty great especially for the price, it can compete with my 10usd buds. Clarity is top notch, almost at the level of RY4S UE but in a recessed/smoother form. It's a lot more V shaped than I imagined though (dip roughly from 300hz to 1.5k), I thought it will be flatter, it definitely adds some V-shape flavour to the music. It's quite unusual for me, especially because it's paired with smooth somewhat rolled off highs. Bass is good, I like the clarity and the midbass boost, it makes the sound full, headphone-like. I'm not totally impressed with the mids, for me they are a bit too thin and dry, but still more organic than most of my buds. Again it's more of a preference of sound signature, but I would prefer flatter frequency response here, I find the v-shape too prominent. For some vocal based music I'd still prefer blue Qian25 but for anything else this Fengru is much better. I also like it more than Qian69, similar fidelity but a lot better tonality for me. I wouldn't say it's better than RY4S UE, I'd rank it roughly on the same level, just different sound signature. I'd like something in between. I can imagine that this could become a killer bud with some additional EQ or other form of tuning.  (Oh, and the shell is slippery and kinda tacky, I'd prefer a more conventional finish to be honest, plus the cable is little short)
If the SR2 and B40 improve the mids compared to this, I'll be really happy


----------



## Willber

robar said:


> If the SR2 and B40 improve the mids compared to this, I'll be really happy


I think you'll be happy.


----------



## cqtek

NiceHCK B40 frequency response graph. In my opinion, it's better to look more like ISN Rambo than SR2. It's not a bad effort.


----------



## ClieOS

cqtek said:


> NiceHCK B40 frequency response graph. In my opinion, it's better to look more like ISN Rambo than SR2. It's not a bad effort.



Recenter all the FR at 1kHz.will be even better.


----------



## 40760

Looks like my second pair of B40 is in the country and should receive them next week. Good times...


----------



## Mhog55

assassin10000 said:


> @Mhog55 forgot to mention the toneking earbuds to65, to180, to200, t0400 & to600.
> 
> I don't have any of those, though others here do.
> 
> ...


Those are sweet. Would be perfect for me. Who mods for you? Are the TK 400s super hard to drive? Would my Opus#1s or LG v40 provide enough power?


----------



## HighLevelDemon (Sep 15, 2019)

cqtek said:


> NiceHCK B40 frequency response graph. In my opinion, it's better to look more like ISN Rambo than SR2. It's not a bad effort.



Hello,

thanks for these graphs. I came across your website last week via google and mentioned it in the other thread (Absolute best budget earbuds?)

Do you have a standalone L/R graph for the B40 plz?

These are the other earbuds that I'm testing (the Vido hasn't arrived yet):

https://hiendportable.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Edifier-H180.png
https://hiendportable.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Vido.png
https://hiendportable.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/RY4S.png

What would be the ranking with regards to the bass response be on these 4? I'm guessing that the RY4S UE ranks last? Even though it's still respectable.


----------



## assassin10000

Mhog55 said:


> Those are sweet. Would be perfect for me. Who mods for you? Are the TK 400s super hard to drive? Would my Opus#1s or LG v40 provide enough power?



I do my own. Haven't tried any earbuds yet. Only cables & mmcx on some mh755.

Not sure on power requirements, I don't own any of them.


----------



## chi-fi mel

I'm not knowledgeable about earbuds, but my B40 arrived today and after a quick listen I was not impressed. Then I put the full foams on and when I listened again I was very impressed and also surprised that the foams made such a huge difference. I've wanted to get one good pair of buds even though I use IEMs, and it seems like I connected on this one.


----------



## cqtek (Sep 15, 2019)

HighLevelDemon said:


> Hello,
> 
> thanks for these graphs. I came across your website last week via google and mentioned it in the other thread (Absolute best budget earbuds?)
> 
> ...



In the graphs, all three give an almost identical bass level. In my opinion, the sensation of the low zone depends more on the form than on the frequency response itself. The MX500 capsules give me a greater bass feel, with a more forceful hit. Thus, the Vido offers the largest and widest bass. But the RY4S UE has a lower area more focused on the sub-bass, not so much on the mid-bass. The Edifiers, due to the adjustment they provide me, are behind in the presence of a low zone, for me.

Then there are already many variants, which offer different foams that can be used, fine singles, thick singles, doubles, donuts, complete plus donuts ... Buff.



I must say that I prefer the sound of the EU RY4S, as they bring more clarity and not a dull sound. Lightening the emphasis between 300Hz and 1.5kHz helps here.

https://hiendportable.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/NiceHCK-B40.png


----------



## HighLevelDemon

cqtek said:


> In the graphs, all three give an almost identical bass level. In my opinion, the sensation of the low zone depends more on the form than on the frequency response itself. The MX500 capsules give me a greater bass feel, with a more forceful hit. Thus, the Vido offers the largest and widest bass. But the RY4S UE has a lower area more focused on the sub-bass, not so much on the mid-bass. The Edifiers, due to the adjustment they provide me, are behind in the presence of a low zone, for me.
> 
> Then there are already many variants, which offer different foams that can be used, fine singles, thick singles, doubles, donuts, complete plus donuts ... Buff.
> 
> ...



Thanks! Is it also possible to put all 4 of them in a single graph?


----------



## noknok23

cqtek said:


> NiceHCK B40 frequency response graph. In my opinion, it's better to look more like ISN Rambo than SR2. It's not a bad effort.


Does it mean b40 as the same sound signature as isn rambo? everybody say rambo has no bass..


----------



## mbwilson111

chi-fi mel said:


> I'm not knowledgeable about earbuds, but my B40 arrived today and after a quick listen I was not impressed. Then I put the full foams on and when I listened again I was very impressed and also surprised that the foams made such a huge difference. I've wanted to get one good pair of buds even though I use IEMs, and it seems like I connected on this one.



Foams always make a huge difference because they help the bud to "seal"better in your ear... not like an iem, but nevertheless important for buds too.  I have one where I have to put a donut foam on top of the regular foam in order to get a good seal.  Doing that does not add more foam to the front but gives more around the edges.  With most buds though I do not do that because then they would not fit.   .


----------



## seanc6441

jogawag said:


> If you mean SR Pro driver, I made a diy earbud with SR Pro drivers.
> The diy earbud with SR Pro drivers has stronger treble and bass than one with SR2 drivers. And They have similar wide sound stage.


Sounds good, yes those are the ones.



assassin10000 said:


> @Mhog55 forgot to mention the toneking earbuds to65, to180, to200, t0400 & to600.
> 
> I don't have any of those, though others here do.
> 
> ...



The stem seems just right for me, any longer would have been annoying, I've seen many mx500 and pk mmcx buds with a full stem and its just way too long for my liking.


----------



## seanc6441

noknok23 said:


> Does it mean b40 as the same sound signature as isn rambo? everybody say rambo has no bass..


So the rambo has more bass extension and more of a peak at 7-8khz?

Seems the sr2's contrast between 500hz to 2khz leads to its slightly duller midrange. That's probably why the clarity isn't the strongest in the mids.

The b40 looks pretty good actually, like a middle ground between the sr2 and rambo it has both the bass extension and treble extension with a mid range thats somewhere in between the two.

Of course it's too difficult to determine which is measurement error due to the placement of the earbud and whats accurate here.


----------



## seanc6441

robar said:


> I've received the Fengru Silver today. I have to admit it's pretty great especially for the price, it can compete with my 10usd buds. Clarity is top notch, almost at the level of RY4S UE but in a recessed/smoother form. It's a lot more V shaped than I imagined though (dip roughly from 300hz to 1.5k), I thought it will be flatter, it definitely adds some V-shape flavour to the music. It's quite unusual for me, especially because it's paired with smooth somewhat rolled off highs. Bass is good, I like the clarity and the midbass boost, it makes the sound full, headphone-like. I'm not totally impressed with the mids, for me they are a bit too thin and dry, but still more organic than most of my buds. Again it's more of a preference of sound signature, but I would prefer flatter frequency response here, I find the v-shape too prominent. For some vocal based music I'd still prefer blue Qian25 but for anything else this Fengru is much better. I also like it more than Qian69, similar fidelity but a lot better tonality for me. I wouldn't say it's better than RY4S UE, I'd rank it roughly on the same level, just different sound signature. I'd like something in between. I can imagine that this could become a killer bud with some additional EQ or other form of tuning.  (Oh, and the shell is slippery and kinda tacky, I'd prefer a more conventional finish to be honest, plus the cable is little short)
> If the SR2 and B40 improve the mids compared to this, I'll be really happy


Might have to buy one to mod then, how is the mid bass? Tight and controlled or does it bleed into the mids?

I'm thinking maybe reduceing the damping behind the driver might increase the bass/low mids in relation to the highs so that might be favourable to lessen the V signature but if the bass gets sloppy it wouldn't be worth it.

Replacing the shell completely might help too. Using the research done by @GREQ  here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2884#post-15036824

We can possibly find a better shell for that earbud to increase the midrange. The vido also has a recessed midrange particularly in the lower mids coupled with strong bass. So you could use that info in search for a shell for the fengru silver.


----------



## seanc6441

cqtek said:


> In the graphs, all three give an almost identical bass level. In my opinion, the sensation of the low zone depends more on the form than on the frequency response itself. The MX500 capsules give me a greater bass feel, with a more forceful hit. Thus, the Vido offers the largest and widest bass. But the RY4S UE has a lower area more focused on the sub-bass, not so much on the mid-bass. The Edifiers, due to the adjustment they provide me, are behind in the presence of a low zone, for me.
> 
> Then there are already many variants, which offer different foams that can be used, fine singles, thick singles, doubles, donuts, complete plus donuts ... Buff.
> 
> ...


It's funny because thats the very reason I was eventually put off by the UE. That low mid suck out makes the overall sound too agressive and makes vocal quality suffer at times.

Of course if your preference is recessed low mids you'll prefer this. It does make the UE bass nice and tight. But I don't feel the sub bass you describe with the UE without mods.


----------



## robar

seanc6441 said:


> Might have to buy one to mod then, how is the mid bass? Tight and controlled or does it bleed into the mids?
> 
> I'm thinking maybe reduceing the damping behind the driver might increase the bass/low mids in relation to the highs so that might be favourable to lessen the V signature but if the bass gets sloppy it wouldn't be worth it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tips,  I'm actually experimenting with small shells and vido drivers at the moment, you can find me on diy earbuds topic. 
I think Fengru Silver is more V shaped than my white vido. I think the bass is tight and well controlled, but lacks starts to roll off early somewhere below 100hz. However I'm no expert at this, but I make noob freq measurements for myself to better understand what I hear. Low bass response is similar to Qian69, then it peaks at around 100hz and soon starts to dip. Around 500hz-1k it is quite recessed (more than anything I have), I think this causes what I describe as dryness. Then it comes up and stays nice and smooth from 2k up until about 7-10k where it starts to roll off.


----------



## cqtek (Sep 15, 2019)

noknok23 said:


> Does it mean b40 as the same sound signature as isn rambo? everybody say rambo has no bass..



Clearly they don't have the same profile, but the tendency is more to be like the Rambo than the SR2.

I see clearly in the graph that the tendency of the B40 in the lower zone is to go up, while the Rambo are more linear and when they reach the mids they decay earlier. The mid-low hit on the B40 is more present. But what is clear is that the Rambo are harder to move, and crisp, has a clearer sound, perhaps that's why it doesn't seem to have so much lower zone. But it is true that the incidence of the lower zone in the B40 is greater than in the Rambo.



HighLevelDemon said:


> Thanks! Is it also possible to put all 4 of them in a single graph?



What's the 4 earbud, the B40?


----------



## waynes world

chi-fi mel said:


> I'm not knowledgeable about earbuds, but my B40 arrived today and after a quick listen I was not impressed. Then I put the full foams on and when I listened again I was very impressed and also surprised that the foams made such a huge difference. I've wanted to get one good pair of buds even though I use IEMs, and it seems like I connected on this one.





mbwilson111 said:


> Foams always make a huge difference because they help the bud to "seal"better in your ear... not like an iem, but nevertheless important for buds too.  I have one where I have to put a donut foam on top of the regular foam in order to get a good seal.  Doing that does not add more foam to the front but gives more around the edges.  With most buds though I do not do that because then they would not fit.   .



Yup. I did the "donut on regular foam" trick with the B40's, and that's working well for me.


----------



## cqtek

seanc6441 said:


> It's funny because thats the very reason I was eventually put off by the UE. That low mid suck out makes the overall sound too agressive and makes vocal quality suffer at times.
> 
> Of course if your preference is recessed low mids you'll prefer this. It does make the UE bass nice and tight. But I don't feel the sub bass you describe with the UE without mods.



My preference is not recessed low mids, but I'd prefer the mids not to sound muddy or honky. That I think is the tendency that many earbuds have in PK form. Luckily ISN Rambo doesn't sound like that, and the B40s seem more controlled in that sense.
In the Vido, with that big, extended bass, the voices sound very boxed, almost drowned out. Of course, going to the other end is a hollow sound, which I don't prefer either. 

But I still think that the final result of the sound in the earbuds, is too dependent on the adjustment of each one. That way, the perception of each one of them can vary, apart from the particular tolerances and preferences.


----------



## HighLevelDemon

cqtek said:


> What's the 4 earbud, the B40?



Yes, TIA


----------



## cqtek

HighLevelDemon said:


> Yes, TIA


----------



## robar (Sep 15, 2019)

cqtek said:


>


Can I ask how do you measure, are these basically the raw output of the earbuds in perfect isolation or  something similar? I'm a noob at this but I'm really interested in the topic. I mean, I see this kind of proportions quite a lot especially with diy parts specifications, so I guess you use some kind of an industry standard. But I don't think these represent what a human hears at all, like the completely flat low bass response under 100hz, towering above every other frequency and such. I  don't see the rolled of bass under 100hz and the dominant high frequencies which is what we actually hear, in these graphs even the flattest sound is a huge slope downwards. Could you educate me a bit about the intention and techniques behind this? I'm a noob and currently experimenting with frequency response measurement, to assess better what I hear. My measurements may be technically inferior, but they show hugely different graphs which represent a lot better what I hear actually. (I can adjust eq or tune physically based on them)I think the reason could be because I measure in a way that simulates the actual wearing position, and it show the proportions quite faithfully in my opinion. I use a tascam dr05 connected to a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, and I push the bud with full foams against the microphone case directly, which is similar in diameter to the earbud front. This makes a seal close to natural, however I have some problems with small bumps which appear consistently at 250hz, 1k etc this is why I'm reluctant to share them. Thanks!


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 15, 2019)

robar said:


> Thanks for the tips,  I'm actually experimenting with small shells and vido drivers at the moment, you can find me on diy earbuds topic.
> I think Fengru Silver is more V shaped than my white vido. I think the bass is tight and well controlled, but lacks starts to roll off early somewhere below 100hz. However I'm no expert at this, but I make noob freq measurements for myself to better understand what I hear. Low bass response is similar to Qian69, then it peaks at around 100hz and soon starts to dip. Around 500hz-1k it is quite recessed (more than anything I have), I think this causes what I describe as dryness. Then it comes up and stays nice and smooth from 2k up until about 7-10k where it starts to roll off.


Well the first thing to try, assuming you are opening the shell from the driver, is to reduce the tuning foam 'horseshoe' to a thinner or more pourous foam type.

That may increase the frequencies below 2000hz, which would probably benefit the fengru silver judging by your impressions.

Some earbuds respond well to less dampening and others don't, really depends on the driver and if it was well tuned to begin with.


----------



## robar (Sep 15, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> Well the first thing to try, assuming you are opening the shell from the driver, is to reduce the tuning foam 'horseshoe' to a thinner or more pourous foam type.
> 
> That may increase the frequencies below 2000hz, which would probably benefit the fengru silver judging by your impressions.
> 
> Some earbuds respond well to less dampening and others don't, really depends on the driver and if it was well tuned to begin with.


Thanks for the tip, I'll try these as well! In fact I'm experimenting with dampening at the moment with the small shell vido mod and my experience is similar, filling the shell with (regular earbud) foam decreases frequencies below 1.5k (especially the boxiness), and smoothes out the mids around 2-4k.  I'm definitely planning to open up and mod Fengru Silver and Qian69 as well. The Fengru cable is too short anyway, barely longer than the shorter line of Vido's J cable, I'm too tall for that  (188cm) to be usable on the go. I think the driver of Fengru Silver could be excellent with smaller shells, because it's recessed in the key areas where my mods become bloated usually (200hz-1k) and extends well where the mods have sudden dips (2k). It would be interesting to put fengru drivers in Qian69 shell, too. (maybe fixes the messy mids that I don't like in qian)


----------



## assassin10000

seanc6441 said:


> The stem seems just right for me, any longer would have been annoying, I've seen many mx500 and pk mmcx buds with a full stem and its just way too long for my liking.



I agree. I'll probably do a similar or shorter length, as I'll want to use them over ear with my BT20S.

I assume they do the full stem to retain the bass port the housing was designed with.


----------



## jogawag (Sep 19, 2019)

I recieved NiceHCK B40 and DIY PK1 MMCX from aliexpress, and I am enjoying them.
So I compare them with DIY SR2, and DIY Docomo which I DIYed with Docomo driver.
Prices are NiceHCK B40($10), DIY SR2($15), DIY Docomo($25+α), DIY PK1 MMCX($60).

Source is Smartphone, Bluetooth amp is Fiio btr3 (codec LDAC). Earbuds foams are donuts pad on normal pad.

width of sound stage:　　　B40, SR2 > PK1 > Docomo
amount of bass:　　　　　B40, SR2, Docomo > PK1
clearness:　　　　　　　　B40, Docomo, PK1 > SR2
naturalness,smoothness:　Docomo, PK1 > B40, SR2


----------



## 40760

B40 seems to work better with Hiegi full foams... I think the thicker full foams creates a better seal for my ears...


----------



## Narayan23

palestofwhite said:


> B40 seems to work better with Hiegi full foams... I think the thicker full foams creates a better seal for my ears...



I´m using them with the provided black & blue foams which are thicker than the VE foams I tend to use and haven´t found a reason to change them, I really like the sound as it is now, and most likely ClieOs tuned them with the provided or similarly thick foams in mind. I was listening to some rock music today and thought to myself "those drums sound like real drums" something I´ve rarely experienced with buds if at all.


----------



## mbwilson111

Narayan23 said:


> I´m using them with the provided black & blue foams which are thicker than the VE foams I tend to use and haven´t found a reason to change them,



I also find the provided foams to be of excellent quality.  They suit the B40.


----------



## Jsingh4

Looks like @ClieOS has outdone chifi earbuds manufacturers, I haven't received it yet but most probably it will be here by tomorrow and by reading all the reviews I am sure they will be great will be looking forward to @ClieOS tuned buds, I mean if he can do this much in $10, think what be can do in more


----------



## snowmind

Jsingh4 said:


> Looks like @ClieOS has outdone chifi earbuds manufacturers, I haven't received it yet but most probably it will be here by tomorrow and by reading all the reviews I am sure they will be great will be looking forward to @ClieOS tuned buds, I mean if he can do this much in $10, think what be can do in more



They seem to fight EB2 and ME80, but at an even lower cost. The tuning work and driver chosen in the project were great from what i read.


----------



## HungryPanda

The B40 are sure good for their price


----------



## Chrisrd

Damn, mine are taking forever to arrive, thanks postal service, take your time guys...


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm actually listening to the ME-80's right now and thoroughly enjoying them


----------



## waynes world

palestofwhite said:


> B40 seems to work better with Hiegi full foams... I think the thicker full foams creates a better seal for my ears...



Yup, getting a good seal is key. Do what must be done!



HungryPanda said:


> I'm actually listening to the ME-80's right now and thoroughly enjoying them



It's kind of crazy isn't it. The B40's got me comparing to the SR2's and the ME80's etc, and they are all friggin' good. Speaking of friggin' good (and OT lol), I also just got the cheapo Koss KPH30i headphones, and they yes, they are friggin' good!


----------



## mbwilson111

Very addictive sound coming from these B40s that have been in my ears for the past 90 minutes or so.  i sat down to listen to a favorite Leonard Cohen album....somehow ended up listening to two.  Forcing myself to stop now.


----------



## assassin10000 (Sep 16, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> A couple more outside dimensions.
> 
> PT25: 16.0mm x 17.0mm (at widest angle, directly across opening is 16.7mm, approx. 15mm wide/thick).
> 
> ...





assassin10000 said:


> A couple more measurements and a shape comparison.
> 
> 15.9mm EBX (17.70mm wide/thick)
> 16.8mm Smabat ST-10 (16.60mm wide/thick)
> ...



Nicehck B40: 16.65-16.70mm
PT15: 16.35mm (18.3mm wide/thick)
BK2: 16.8mm (15.35mm wide/thick)







Top: PT15, BK2
Bottom: ACG, ST-10


----------



## happyblack (Sep 17, 2019)

Loving my newly arrived B40s.

When I firstly saw them, I was like: oh, okay; could've been worse.
But then I plugged them in and was blown away.

I'm so taken with them that I started considering some changes in my belongings, haha.

Can anyone recommend any IEMs that share similar sound characteristics?

Right now I use Tin Audio T2 (non-pro), but these are not as airy and detailed as B40.


----------



## subwoof3r (Sep 17, 2019)

Do someone know if Jim (from NiceHCK) is still alive ?
Many messages on aliexpress without any answer now since many weeks..
I believe that Jim is no longer the Jim we all knew in the past and surely been promoted as a commercial or something like that, as he keeps promoting his NiceHCK page everyday with new articles on facebook but now really don't care anymore about their loyal customers for years, sadly 
NiceHCK was my favorite store on ali when it cames for support, but without Jim, this is no more "NiceHCK" (at least to me).
I really hope I won't have to not put NiceHCK into my blacklist, like Venture Electronics finished..


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 17, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> Do someone know if Jim (from NiceHCK) is still alive ?
> Many messages on aliexpress without any answer now since many weeks..
> I believe that Jim is no longer the Jim we all knew in the past and surely been promoted as a commercial or something like that, as he keeps promoting his NiceHCK page everyday with new articles on facebook but now really don't care anymore about their loyal customers for years, sadly
> NiceHCK was my favorite store on ali when it cames for support, but without Jim, this is no more "NiceHCK" (at least to me).
> I really hope I won't have to not put NiceHCK into my blacklist, like Venture Electronics finished..



I had a small issue several weeks ago that I was messaging about with Jim.  All of a sudden I received a reply from someone that did not sound like him.  That person obviously misunderstood the points that were being discussed.  I decided not to pursue the matter... which I had hoped would result in a $10 coupon or refund.


----------



## subwoof3r

mbwilson111 said:


> I had a small issue several weeks ago that I was messaging about with Jim.  All of a suddent I received a reply from someone that did not sound like him.  That person obviously misunderstood the points that were being discussed.  I decided not to pursue the matter... which I had hoped would result in a $10 coupon or refund.


Yup, exact same story as you, this is sad..


----------



## DBaldock9

subwoof3r said:


> Do someone know if Jim (from NiceHCK) is still alive ?
> Many messages on aliexpress without any answer now since many weeks..
> I believe that Jim is no longer the Jim we all knew in the past and surely been promoted as a commercial or something like that, as he keeps promoting his NiceHCK page everyday with new articles on facebook but now really don't care anymore about their loyal customers for years, sadly
> NiceHCK was my favorite store on ali when it cames for support, but without Jim, this is no more "NiceHCK" (at least to me).
> I really hope I won't have to not put NiceHCK into my blacklist, like Venture Electronics finished..



If you're "friends" with Jim on Facebook [ https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100011438846290 ], you could try contacting him by Facebook Messenger.


----------



## DBaldock9

At work today, listening to my VE Zen 2.0 ZOE, on the VE Pure Blue (Silver) Balanced cable that I modified, by installing angled 0.78mm 2-Pin plugs. It's plugged into my stock Zishan DSD, being used as a USB DAC, and I'm playing some Jazz from the "Relax Cafe Music" YouTube channel. 
.


----------



## harpuajim

I purchased the 32ohm PK2's from the Chitty store and I really like them.  The only problem is that the foam pads that came with them aren't really great.  Are there any pads that people recommend here for headphones like these?


----------



## 40760

subwoof3r said:


> Do someone know if Jim (from NiceHCK) is still alive ?
> Many messages on aliexpress without any answer now since many weeks..
> I believe that Jim is no longer the Jim we all knew in the past and surely been promoted as a commercial or something like that, as he keeps promoting his NiceHCK page everyday with new articles on facebook but now really don't care anymore about their loyal customers for years, sadly
> NiceHCK was my favorite store on ali when it cames for support, but without Jim, this is no more "NiceHCK" (at least to me).
> I really hope I won't have to not put NiceHCK into my blacklist, like Venture Electronics finished..



My 2nd pair of B40 arrived with the cardboard box badly crushed and its Y-Split dented. Soon after, both drivers failed completely.

They (Jim?) were quite responsive for my case, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed to have them arrange an exchange or replacement.


----------



## jogawag

harpuajim said:


> I purchased the 32ohm PK2's from the Chitty store and I really like them.  The only problem is that the foam pads that came with them aren't really great.  Are there any pads that people recommend here for headphones like these?


I recommend Ex Pack Lite (= color:8th on the page below).
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32844964644.html


----------



## mbwilson111

harpuajim said:


> I purchased the 32ohm PK2's from the Chitty store and I really like them.  The only problem is that the foam pads that came with them aren't really great.  Are there any pads that people recommend here for headphones like these?



What don't you like about the foams that came with them?  I recently got an mmcx bud from that store and I really like the foams that came with it, but he seems to not sell them separately... at least not the ones I have.

I have bought quite a few foams from the Trig Rain store on aliexpress.  I love all the colors that we can get there and the quality is nice.


----------



## 40760

I mailed back the faulty B40 today and NiceHCK was pretty responsive about providing details for the returns an all. I'm not sure if Jim was the one, personally communicating with me, but the cost of shipping them back was almost the price of getting a new pair though.


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> I mailed back the faulty B40 today and NiceHCK was pretty responsive about providing details for the returns an all. I'm not sure if Jim was the one, personally communicating with me, but the cost of shipping them back was almost the price of getting a new pair though.



They should not have required you to ship it back.  Why would they want a broken one?   You need to ask them to give you a voucher for the amount of the shipping.  Did they know how much shipping would cost?  Maybe they think it is free for you like it is for them.  We get free shipping from them because it is free for them


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> They should not have required you to ship it back.  Why would they want a broken one?   You need to ask them to give you a voucher for the amount of the shipping.  Did they know how much shipping would cost?  Maybe they think it is free for you like it is for them.  We get free shipping from them because it is free for them



I did casually bring up the cost to them but I guess they conveniently avoided my mention.

Back then I remembered returning a faulty pair of EB2 before they would ship me a replacement. Company RMA protocol I presume?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 18, 2019)

palestofwhite said:


> I did casually bring up the cost to them but I guess they conveniently avoided my mention.
> 
> Back then I remembered returning a faulty pair of EB2 before they would ship me a replacement. Company RMA protocol I presume?



I think you have to insist... indicate that you will need to raise a dispute with aliexpress.  The only problem with doing that in this case, is no one else sells the B40.  Ask them to give you a coupon for your next purchase to make up for the shipping.  I wonder how long it will take to get to them.


----------



## mochill

Just ordered the new BBB V2.5 :-D


----------



## harpuajim

mbwilson111 said:


> What don't you like about the foams that came with them?  I recently got an mmcx bud from that store and I really like the foams that came with it, but he seems to not sell them separately... at least not the ones I have.
> 
> I have bought quite a few foams from the Trig Rain store on aliexpress.  I love all the colors that we can get there and the quality is nice.


IT's not that I don't like them but I kept trying to put them on and they kept ripping.  I'm sure it was a result of me not being gentle enough but I had never experienced anything like that before and just felt like they were cheap.


----------



## harpuajim

mbwilson111 said:


> There are three different drivers used in that listing.  The one you got is the PK2 driver.  The 16 ohm one is the SR2 driver.  The 150 ohm is something else.   All will sound different and to be honest, I think all will sound good.   We have the ones with the SR2 drivers and love them.. but they do need a lot of burn in.
> 
> That is a good store... it is where my husband @HungryPanda buys a lot of his supplies for making his own buds (which are excellent... but just a hobby for us... not for sale).    He has made buds for us using the 32 ohm PK drivers from that store and they are excellent.   He has also used the 150ohm drivers and those buds turned out well also.
> 
> ...


Would you happen to be able to speak on the sound differences between the PK2 and the SR2, assuming both have gone through the 100 hours of burn in?  Like is one cleaner than the other or does one do lows better than the other?  Also how does the ohm difference between the two affect the experience for the user?  As a bit of reference I purchased the PK2's and think they sound great.
Thanks for entertaining my noob questions


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 18, 2019)

harpuajim said:


> IT's not that I don't like them but I kept trying to put them on and they kept ripping.  I'm sure it was a result of me not being gentle enough but I had never experienced anything like that before and just felt like they were cheap.




You  will have to be gentle with any of them.  Those were actually very nice ones.   You have to stretch them little by little evenly all the way around.  You will think you have one part over the shell and it will pop off again.  After a few times you cry and try  some more   Finally it works.  It would help to have 20 tiny finger.  It takes me between 5 and 20 minutes per side to get them on.

How many buds have you put foams on so far?



harpuajim said:


> Would you happen to be able to speak on the sound differences between the PK2 and the SR2, assuming both have gone through the 100 hours of burn in?  Like is one cleaner than the other or does one do lows better than the other?  Also how does the ohm difference between the two affect the experience for the user?  As a bit of reference I purchased the PK2's and think they sound great.
> Thanks for entertaining my noob questions



I am not good at that kind of comparison... and the answer might vary from listener to listener anyway.  I cannot assume you will hear these the same as I do.

I know there are others who will answer this better


----------



## LoneRanger

mochill said:


> Just ordered the new BBB V2.5 :-D



I got the v2 just recently - great buds. What's new in v2.5?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

LoneRanger said:


> I got the v2 just recently - great buds. What's new in v2.5?



loving the bass of v1, with some sparkles and soundstage of v2


----------



## mochill

LoneRanger said:


> I got the v2 just recently - great buds. What's new in v2.5?


Deeper bass then v1 and bigger soundstage without sacrifing treble.


----------



## LoneRanger

Alex.Grimm said:


> loving the bass of v1, with some sparkles and soundstage of v2





mochill said:


> Deeper bass then v1 and bigger soundstage without sacrifing treble.



Thanks guys


----------



## mochill

LoneRanger said:


> Thanks guys


Your welcome


----------



## ierhard13

Hi everyone,

I've lurked on this thread for a while and found some great earbuds!

I have a friend who just asked me for recommendations in the $10-20 range. He said noise isolation doesn't matter to him, so I recommended the VE Monk+ or Yincrow X6. However, he needs a built-in mic, which neither of those have. 

Does anyone know of a good pair with a mic? He said he's willing to go up to $30 if needed.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## kingdixon

ierhard13 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I've lurked on this thread for a while and found some great earbuds!
> 
> ...



I think vido comes with a mic option, its basically very close to x6.


----------



## ierhard13

kingdixon said:


> I think vido comes with a mic option, its basically very close to x6.



awesome, thank you.


----------



## ClieOS

What happened in China stays in China.


----------



## mochill

ClieOS said:


> What happened in China stays in China.


:-O:-O:-O:-O:-O:-O:-O How much , and more information please


----------



## Willber

ierhard13 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I've lurked on this thread for a while and found some great earbuds!
> 
> ...


The new B40 has received a lot of praise on here, and rightly so. I find it significantly better than the Monk+, X6 and Vido (although the X6 and Vido have more bass quantity). It is my favourite of all my buds:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000120453244.html

Another option is the Headroom MS16, also one of my favourites:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32828318200.html


----------



## flamesofarctica (Sep 18, 2019)

EDIT - sorry, this is longer than I thought!

Ok so here is my comparison of the various PK type earbuds I've got recently, these being..
NiceHCK B40
DIY SR2 16ohms TPE wire
DIY PK2 32ohms TPE wire
DIY 150 ohms transparent film 'vocal' OFC
DIY PK1 150 ohms red film (black, stiff cable)
DIY PK1 150 ohms red film 5N SCC

Been holding off as I'm not great at describing this stuff, and please remember these are just to my ears. Mostly playing pop/rock and a bit of metal.

All bar the B40 (obviously) were bought from a mix of 2 Ali stores but seem to be available on both: Chitty's store and DIY Earphone Tribe Store. Not sure if there's any relation between the two stores, they seem very similar in stock.

The first of these I bought hooked me in, the DIY SR2.

Originally sounding quite odd and veiled, after a few hours play these really opened up and made anything I played sound somewhat more exciting. Not perfect clarity, but a nice fun listen and suited a whole range of rock / pop. These became my go-to earbuds pretty much immediately and got me ordering a few others..and soon after,they  broke. My fault, I think.. I fell asleep wearing them and got them in a right old tangle, when I next tried them I could only get sound from one earbud. I instantly ordered another set, but it's reminded me to take care as the cable is really very thin on these. Enjoying the new set equally, taking care with them and hoping they last.

In the meantime, the others started to arrive and I also ordered the B40 in the lucky bag offer. The B40 arrived pretty quick, and I liked them a lot - enough to order a second as a gift, and a third as a spare (why do I buy spares, have enough earbuds without them). More forward sounding, and more clarity. Really nice sounding, pretty much faultless in fact - and different enough from the SR2 to make both a worthwhile purchase. Neither have screeching highs, but I'd say the SR2 is more relaxing yet in its own way a more fun listen. Not great at describing these things, but signature-wise the SR2 put a bigger smile on my face.

I'll skirt across the PK2 quickly, as it hasn't really had a look in. It didn't sound bad at all on first listen, but didn't draw me in as much as the others on this list, so hasn't had its fair chance to impress.

The 150ohm 'transparent film' earbud I got wasn't the TPE wire - I spotted some with a nicer wire which were still reasonably priced. And it's really nice, reminds me a bit of the wire on the Blox B320. Quite rubbery and malleable, no memory or microphonics whatsoever. I wish the SR2 had this cable. Anyway, I really like this one, I can see why they mention vocals, the mids are excellent although the whole presentation is nice and smooth. Nothing too accentuated. This and the DIY PK1 seem to react better to a bit of power, so have mostly used with my Cayin N5 and/or using an amp, rather than less powerful sources, although they actually sound decent on the Shanling M2S and RUIZU A50 as well. Basically, not for a cheapo smartphone like mine.

The DIY PK1 with the stiff black cable - I think this is the 'OFC silver plated' wire used on the 'SR2 PRO', and wow it's an odd cable. It just wants to coil up and pull the earbuds out due to its weight (the metal splitter doesn't help). Microphonics too. I've worked out if I put them in my ears and position the earbuds in a wearing down position, then keeping some cable down,  looping the next length of cable in an over-ear position, they'll stay in. And it's worth it, these sound fantastic. Less forward than the B40, these sound great across all ranges, nicely balanced between bass, mids and treble, plenty of clarity, you can really lose yourself in the music with these in. Recommend them wholeheartedly for sound alone - that cable however, it would be better used building wire fences or something.

Which is why I splashed out and got a set of similar with a nicer cable, the '5N SCC' which I have no idea what it stands for. These sound every bit as good, possibly the highs tamed a little but they're just more practical to wear, nicer looking and with a much nicer plug.

So there you go. I can definitely say, there's not a bad one amongst them provided no more break in which case I'll revise my opinion.

In short, IMO,
DIY PK1  (nice cable) > DIY PK1 ('orrible cable) > SR2 & 150 ohm transparent film & NiceHCK B40 >= DIY PK2


----------



## rkw

ClieOS said:


>


A Yuin style shell. Is it metal or just coated plastic?


----------



## ClieOS

rkw said:


> A Yuin style shell. Is it metal or just coated plastic?



Zinc-magnesium alloy.


----------



## waynes world

harpuajim said:


> IT's not that I don't like them but I kept trying to put them on and they kept ripping.  I'm sure it was a result of me not being gentle enough but I had never experienced anything like that before and just felt like they were cheap.



Either you look like this when you're trying to put them on, or you look like this after trying to put them on!:








mbwilson111 said:


> You  will have to be gentle with any of them.  Those were actually very nice ones.   You have to stretch them little by little evenly all the way around.  You will think you have one part over the shell and it will pop off again.  After a few times you cry and try  some more   Finally it works.  It would help to have 20 tiny finger.  It takes me between 5 and 20 minutes per side to get them on.



Crying is another option. Been there done that!



flamesofarctica said:


> In short, IMO,
> DIY PK1  (nice cable) > DIY PK1 ('orrible cable) > SR2 & 150 ohm transparent film & NiceHCK B40 >= DIY PK2



Great impressions! Do you have a link for the DIY PK1's? I haven't purchased an earbud in the last hour, and I'm feeling the itch lol


----------



## Willber

harpuajim said:


> IT's not that I don't like them but I kept trying to put them on and they kept ripping.  I'm sure it was a result of me not being gentle enough but I had never experienced anything like that before and just felt like they were cheap.


Make sure you stretch them first. This will loosen them and also warm them up and make them more pliable.


----------



## flamesofarctica

waynes world said:


> Great impressions! Do you have a link for the DIY PK1's? I haven't purchased an earbud in the last hour, and I'm feeling the itch lol



I'm on the mobile and so I'm having trouble getting the links. 
If you search on Ali for 'DIY PK1 red film', then sort by price low to high, the 2 first ones are the good sound/ stiff 'orrible cable ones. Further down, the one with the angled plug is the listing for the nicer one I got, but I went for transparent cable / straight plug. Hopefully that makes sense!


----------



## mochill

https://penonaudio.com/bgvp-dx5.html


----------



## waynes world

flamesofarctica said:


> I'm on the mobile and so I'm having trouble getting the links.
> If you search on Ali for 'DIY PK1 red film', then sort by price low to high, the 2 first ones are the good sound/ stiff 'orrible cable ones. Further down, the one with the angled plug is the listing for the nicer one I got, but I went for transparent cable / straight plug. Hopefully that makes sense!



Thanks. I think you mean this one:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32366470027.html





They cost enough that this one won't be a spontaneous buy.


----------



## ClieOS

mochill said:


> :-O:-O:-O:-O:-O:-O:-O How much , and more information please



About $210 in China. ToTL price with ToTL sound。


----------



## jogawag

flamesofarctica said:


> I'm on the mobile and so I'm having trouble getting the links.
> If you search on Ali for 'DIY PK1 red film', then sort by price low to high, the 2 first ones are the good sound/ stiff 'orrible cable ones. Further down, the one with the angled plug is the listing for the nicer one I got, but I went for transparent cable / straight plug. Hopefully that makes sense!



I think DIY PK1 red film may be better than SR2 as a whole.
But did you feel that DIY PK1 red film has less bass than SR2 and that the sound stage width of DIY PK1 red film is narrower than SR2?


----------



## Jim-Ali

palestofwhite said:


> I mailed back the faulty B40 today and NiceHCK was pretty responsive about providing details for the returns an all. I'm not sure if Jim was the one, personally communicating with me, but the cost of shipping them back was almost the price of getting a new pair though.



Hey palestofwhite,
Sorry for this problem.
Please tell me your order id, we will replacement for you (Please send me a DM via head-fi), thanks

Jim 
2019/9/19th


----------



## Jim-Ali

Jim-Ali said:


> Hey palestofwhite,
> Sorry for this problem.
> Please tell me your order id, we will replacement for you (Please send me a DM via head-fi), thanks
> 
> ...


I've found your order №, please check your ali DM, thanks~


----------



## Willber

Jim-Ali said:


> Hey palestofwhite,
> Sorry for this problem.
> Please tell me your order id, we will replacement for you (Please send me a DM via head-fi), thanks
> 
> ...


That's good customer service.


----------



## 40760

Jim-Ali said:


> I've found your order №, please check your ali DM, thanks~



Thanks Jim! And also on behalf of subwoof3r and mbwillson111 as well...


----------



## flamesofarctica (Sep 19, 2019)

waynes world said:


> Thanks. I think you mean this one:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32366470027.html
> 
> 
> They cost enough that this one won't be a spontaneous buy.



That's the listing, although I went for the transparent cable. Yep I agree, I was in a crazy mood when I ordered  Note: 1 order. That'll be me  I still think the cheaper one is good enough to live with the cable issue.



jogawag said:


> I think DIY PK1 red film may be better than SR2 as a whole.
> But did you feel that DIY PK1 red film has less bass than SR2 and that the sound stage width of DIY PK1 red film is narrower than SR2?



Agree, certainly on bass. However neither has too much or too little, the DIY PK1 has enough for a natural clear, balanced sound, the SR2 enough to make it fun and addictive. They're both awesome, and different enough to justify having both. I wish the SR2 came with a sturdier cable (there's the SR2 PRO but that's the horrible stiff wire again). I need to learn to recable!

Perceived soundstage width is a difficult one, to me that's a measure of how open they sound. I seem to get more of that with good MX500 earbuds over smaller earbuds like the PK style or worse the Monk Lite style (worse still, IEMs). But I found neither of these sounded too closed or upfront to put me me off. Both beat the B40 for me on that one, although the B40 again is awesome overall (it's hard when all of them are so good)


----------



## Jsingh4

So I received my B40 and I was just playing with it and I noticed that if you close back vents it gives you better bass so I tried using tapes to seal the vent bass was little better but it sounded little suffocated.
So I just got an idea to put a form piece inside of the shell where vents are and oh my God the bass is slamming now back side is open just the inside is with the foam it feels like sound is little amplified and bass is so better.
BTW the form I used was actually is from packing of RW9 and I cut to pieces and inserted in the shell and boom. If someone can try this mod and tell me if they feel a good difference too.


----------



## DBaldock9

Decided to try the thin full foams that came in the VE ExtraPack, on my VE Zen 2.0 ZOE and Asura 2.0s AOE.
They allow the earbuds to fit more comfortably than with the rubber rings (or no rings/foams at all), and they don't cause the Mid-Bass hump that I hear from donut foams.

For the ZOE, which sounds a bit too _warm_ to me when used with a thick full or donut foam (like a Hiegi), these thin foams provide a more balanced sound (less Bass, more Midrange & Treble).
For the AOE, which was designed "_for a midrange oriented sound signature_", the thin foams allow the great Asura Midrange to come through loud & clear.

Currently using the VE Pure Blue (Silver) Balanced cable, and my Walnut F2 (OPA627 op-amps) as a USB DAC for my work PC, listening to - 
.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Sep 19, 2019)

Smabat M1 PRO available at Aliexpress $65



Spoiler



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000186608306.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000188636790.html


----------



## Jsingh4

Alex.Grimm said:


> Smabat M1 PRO available at Aliexpress $65
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How are the reviews on taobao or on Chinese website?
I so want them right now


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Jsingh4 said:


> How are the reviews on taobao or on Chinese website?
> I so want them right now



no reviews yet


----------



## FastAndClean

new Smabat earbud with biocellulose driver - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_9,searchweb201603_52


----------



## kurtextrem (Sep 19, 2019)

Any review for the Smabat M1 Pro?

edit: nvm, sadly no


----------



## waynes world (Sep 19, 2019)

flamesofarctica said:


> That's the listing, although I went for the transparent cable. Yep I agree, I was in a crazy mood when I ordered  Note: 1 order. That'll be me  I still think the cheaper one is good enough to live with the cable issue.



We've all been in that crazy mood before my friend! But you really like them so it paid off for you.

When they start getting to be around that price though, there are already others that I'm interested in... plus new ones popping up all of the time! (I'm looking at you Smabat pro with biocellulose interesting looking driver!).


----------



## ElectricKaibutu

I got a pair of Koss KSC75s and Portapros so I've been mostly listening to them the past two weeks. I just popped on my RY4S UEs for the first time in awhile and yo! These sound real good! I forgot how good they sound. These are endgame earbud material.


----------



## waynes world

FastAndClean said:


> new Smabat earbud with biocellulose driver - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_9,searchweb201603_52



I can't see where they mention biocellulose drivers?


----------



## waynes world

ElectricKaibutu said:


> I got a pair of Koss KSC75s and Portapros so I've been mostly listening to them the past two weeks. I just popped on my RY4S UEs for the first time in awhile and yo! These sound real good! I forgot how good they sound. These are endgame earbud material.



They are! As are many of the cheapo buds these days. Great time to be an audio-cheapo-file!


----------



## FastAndClean

waynes world said:


> I can't see where they mention biocellulose drivers?


look at the picture of the driver, it is biocellulose


----------



## waynes world

FastAndClean said:


> look at the picture of the driver, it is biocellulose



Ok - I'll have to take your word for it!


----------



## FastAndClean

waynes world said:


> Ok - I'll have to take your word for it!


that is how they look, hairy hahaha


----------



## Willber

FastAndClean said:


> new Smabat earbud with biocellulose driver - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_9,searchweb201603_52


Is that the same one @Alex.Grimm posted a link to earlier?


----------



## FastAndClean

Willber said:


> Is that the same one @Alex.Grimm posted a link to earlier?


oh yes, i just saw that it was posted already


----------



## Willber

FastAndClean said:


> oh yes, i just saw that it was posted already


Fair enough, just checking there wasn't another new one to tempt me!


----------



## FastAndClean

it is supposed to be improved version of ST10 with smaller size, it is a lot cheaper though, go figure


----------



## ClieOS

FastAndClean said:


> look at the picture of the driver, it is biocellulose



While it could be bio-cellulose, it also could be something else. I don't think Smabat states specifically that it is. The picture shows some kind of composite diaphragm, which can be any kind of fiber that is either natural or non-natural in origin, from wool to nylon (*what shown in the picture, that white-ish diaphragm, actually looks like wool to me) . A true bio-cellulose diaphragm, made famous by Sony's MDR-E888,  usually refers to the kind of fiber harvested from modified bacteria, and the diaphragm tends to be close to transparent.


----------



## flamesofarctica

waynes world said:


> We've all been in that crazy mood before my friend! But you really like them so it paid off for you.
> 
> When they start getting to be around that price though, there are already others that I'm interested in... plus new ones popping up all of the time! (I'm looking at you Smabat pro with biocellulose driver!).



Yep it's a bit expensive for a DIY option that no-one has reviewed, I definitely lucked out it being a good 'un.

That Smabat looks interesting and I'll be keeping my eye out for impressions.

The only earbud I have my eye on at the moment isn't all that new, it's the Asura Omega edition. I already have the 2.0 and 2.0 balanced, they are amongst my favorites but just finding it hard to justify getting another, more expensive, version. Especially considering how impressive some of the cheaper earbuds have been recently.


----------



## waynes world

Willber said:


> Fair enough, just checking there wasn't another new one to tempt me!



Yeah, that's all this group of misfits needs!


----------



## Infoseeker

How do I use this thread? 1st post is just a bunch of pictures to me.

Which are the ToTL?


----------



## Willber

Infoseeker said:


> How do I use this thread?


Read _every page_ and then come back with questions.


----------



## RobinFood

I just got these yesterday. I am still forking an opinion on then.
They are the Pureson Audio 150 ohm PK bud. They were 39 USD, with shipping. I really wanted to try PK shells and high ohm earbuds so this was a good chance.

I don't think they will be taking down my Smabat but I also ordered them because the fit on the Smabat was sometimes annoying.

Sound wise with power they seem to have a decent amount of bass and full mids. Compared to the Smabat the kids are muddy but that is not a fair comparison. They get much clearer with power. The bass also gets quicker with power, and the highs show up with power, but never feel sparkly.

Everything sounds natural with power. They are very detailed, but once again only with power. I put my es 100 in balanced 2X mode to get the best sound.

Need more time to make an opinion, but they don't sound like anything in my collection yet, so that is good.




 

 
I will say that everything was customizable, which was a great experience. I got a short 60cm balanced cable half and half spc/copper and a 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter. The build quality is good and I have a small bump on the left side to tell left and right apart in the dark. It was a fun experience getting messages with options every now and then. The cable is a little stuff but I'm getting used to it. Sounds best naked, but I added thin foams to keep them in my ears more securely without changing the sound too much.


----------



## ClieOS

Willber said:


> Read _every page_ and then come back with questions.



 To think I only spent 10 years on this thread....


----------



## jogawag

ClieOS said:


> To think I only spent 10 years on this thread....


Thank you for 10 years. It seems long and now it seems short.


----------



## waynes world

ClieOS said:


> To think I only spent 10 years on this thread....



Sheesh, it feels like I've been in this thread forever, but it's actually only been about one year!

Anyway, yes thanks for creating this thread 10 years ago, and for continuing to contribute to it in such a meaningful manner.

Kudos!


----------



## HungryPanda

I haven't been on this thread very long but whats a ride. Now I have oodles of buds


----------



## endia

ClieOS said:


> To think I only spent 10 years on this thread....



I have came to this thread and bought a yuin pk1 around 9-10 years ago..
a few years later, came back and sold yuin, bought many 

thanks and kudos @ClieOS .


----------



## 40760

I think I spent the most on earbuds than any other form of audio equipment...


----------



## dharmasteve (Sep 20, 2019)

Had the Nicehck B40 a few days. Shocked at how good they are. Should be receiving the Ourart ACG very shortly, and I have had the Rose Masya Mk2s for a while. Will try to give my honest comparisons when I have burned the B40 and ACG in. As a newbie to earbuds I am beginning get it. There are certain things that IEMs cannot compete with against some earbuds, and I am trying to think of ways to articulate it, even inexpensive ones like the B40s. There is definitely an unwarranted predudice in favour of IEMs over earbuds. Viva la B40.


----------



## mbwilson111

dharmasteve said:


> Had the Nicehck B40 a few days. Shocked at how good they are. Should be receiving the Ourart ACG very shortly, and I have had the Rose Masya Mk2s for a while. Will try to give my honest comparisons when I have burned the B40 and ACG in. As a newbie to earbuds I am beginning get it. There are certain things that IEMs cannot compete with against some earbuds, and I am trying to think of ways to articulate it, even inexpensive ones like the B40s. There is definitely an unwarranted predudice in favour of IEMs over earbuds. Viva la B40.



I like having less isolation.  I would rather be aware of things around me.  I can only use my iems (and I do have some good ones)  when  not expecting any phone calls or deliveries.  Also I hate closing myself off when I am not alone.   I appreciate the more open feeling of earbuds.  They seem closer to headphones to me, without the weight and clamp.

When I first joined headfi I only had headphones.  I refused to try iems or buds.  I had bad memories of buds that came with some of my portable gear a long time ago.  I don't think foams were even included so they just fell out of my ears if I moved.  Now there are many people looking for vintage buds.   I may have thrown some away that would have been perfectly fine with foams.

I only tried iems because my husband @HungryPanda was into them.  So I started by listening with a few of his.  Later he bought some buds and I thought he was crazy... but then I tried and liked them.  It has only been two years since I bought one of my own... a coffee colored Monk+.    

Then I got hooked by suggestions in this thread.  I think a PT15, an AuglamourRX1, a Boarseman98, a Qian39 and a NiceHCK PK2 (the one with the Docomo driver) were among my first.  Ordered them during a summer sale and they all arrived on the same day!  Still love them all.  Now my list has become embarrassingly long.

I love using the B40 because it is really comfortable and it lacks nothing.  No faults to my ears,.  Just enjoying my music.  I even bought a spare that day that some of rest of you ( @waynes world )  were panicking and buying spares


----------



## Jsingh4

Guys this looks cool and cheap


----------



## subwoof3r

I finally bought *those earbuds* !


----------



## Willber

subwoof3r said:


> I finally bought *those earbuds* !


I wonder why they are called PK2 when they are Docomo shells. Perhaps it's a PK2 driver.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> I wonder why they are called PK2 when they are Docomo shells. Perhaps it's a PK2 driver.



That is what I am thinking.  You could ask the seller.  I have the one with the pink cable,  I had to have it when I saw @BloodyPenguin s photos.

Plus, I love Docomo shells.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

My guess is it is a normal DoCoMo driver.  The seller is most likely adding the PK2 for search results.

I have a few pairs of the DoCoMo and I'm like 90% it is the same driver.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Sep 20, 2019)

FastAndClean said:


> look at the picture of the driver, it is biocellulose



Cashmere wool



Spoiler



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32994788400.html


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> That is what I am thinking.  You could ask the seller.  I have the one with the pink cable,  I had to have it when I saw @BloodyPenguin s photos.
> 
> Plus, I love Docomo shells.


I'm interested in the Docomo shell but I bought a DIY PK2 (with the proper shell and apparently PK2 driver) some time ago and I didn't like it.


----------



## mbwilson111

BloodyPenguin said:


> My guess is it is a normal DoCoMo driver.  The seller is most likely adding the PK2 for search results.
> 
> I have a few pairs of the DoCoMo and I'm like 90% it is the same driver.



In that case, I should compare mine to my Blur Black Panther which I know has a modded Docomo driver inside a Docomo shell.

I have been wanting to buy a stock Docomo earbud but now I wonder if it would be the same as this one only with a fancier cable.


----------



## 40760

All this talk about Docomo shells is making me consider the Shozy XB...


----------



## jogawag (Sep 20, 2019)

Willber said:


> I wonder why they are called PK2 when they are Docomo shells. Perhaps it's a PK2 driver.





mbwilson111 said:


> That is what I am thinking.  You could ask the seller.  I have the one with the pink cable,  I had to have it when I saw @BloodyPenguin s photos.
> 
> Plus, I love Docomo shells.





BloodyPenguin said:


> My guess is it is a normal DoCoMo driver.  The seller is most likely adding the PK2 for search results.
> 
> I have a few pairs of the DoCoMo and I'm like 90% it is the same driver.



I wonder why they are called PK2 too, when they are Docomo(Variant) shells.
But there is a description of "Resistance: 32Ω" in the "specification" tab on the page of aliexpress, so it should be neither Yuin PK2 Driver nor Docomo driver.
Yuin PK2 Driver and Docomo driver are "Resistance: 16Ω".


----------



## subwoof3r

Willber said:


> I wonder why they are called PK2 when they are Docomo shells. Perhaps it's a PK2 driver.


I decided to buy mainly because for now I don't have any Docomo shell at all, I'm curious about the performance of that shells, I heard very good things of it 
I will make a DIY project with them anyway  (mainly replacing cable and drivers, but I will listen to them stock to see and report, of course)
Those Docomo shells (alone) are hard to find on ali.


----------



## mbwilson111

subwoof3r said:


> I decided to buy mainly because for now I don't have any Docomo shell at all, I'm curious about the performance of that shells, I heard very good things of it
> I will make a DIY project with them anyway  (mainly replacing cable and drivers, but I will listen to them stock to see and report, of course)
> Those Docomo shells (alone) are hard to find on ali.



I hope you like them.  I am happy with the sound but I know you are more picky than I am  Plus you like to mod things. Maybe you will like them with the drivers that are in them

I think I mainly ordered mine because of this cable.  Also, my husband @HungryPanda already had the one with the black cable and was loving it.  So it was  not exactly a blind purchase.


----------



## subwoof3r

mbwilson111 said:


> I hope you like them.  I am happy with the sound but I know you are more picky than I am  Plus you like to mod things. Maybe you will like them with the drivers that are in them
> 
> I think I mainly ordered mine because of this cable.  Also, my husband @HungryPanda already had the one with the black cable and was loving it.  So it was  not exactly a blind purchase.


They looks beautiful in that color, good choice from you and your husband


----------



## mbwilson111

subwoof3r said:


> They looks beautiful in that color, good choice from you and your husband



I should warn that the pink/white cable is a little stiff but not in an annoying way (to me).  You can see in the photo that  at least it lies nicely.  Unlike the cable that was originally on my PK2SR2 16ohm  - From an early listing... not the one that most people are ordering more recently.

a really stiff cable does this:



 

Nicely recabled SR2 16 ohm ... by @HungryPanda    No drivers died in the process  Whew!


----------



## jogawag (Sep 21, 2019)

I recently purchased several NTT Docomo earbuds at the link below. This link was taught to me by @KevDzn.
They cost about $ 25 in US dollars as a pair, but you can get the real Docomo drivers out of them.
As I write here again, the speaker side of the Docomo driver is "*gray*".

https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=4771866





 

EDIT:
Caution! These Docomo earbuds have balanced 4pole TRRS plug (same as Hifiman's) . So you will have to get a balanced-to-single-ended extension cable or recable it yourself before you use it.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

phixion said:


> Maybe one day we will get a nice earbud with an EarPod type shell, until then I guess I will stick to my EarPods when I don't need isolation.



YINCROW RW-100  Good Bass Head *Bio cellulose* 



Spoiler



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33034644891.html


----------



## kingdixon

Willsound mk2 balanced using hybrid cable to wm1a, its a bliss !

I have received some earbuds in the last 2 days :

St10/vido/x6/nameless/b40/ willsound mk1 mk2 mk3.

For a very short time with each of them, this is by far the one i enjoy the most even if i recall correctly more than st10 with balanced to wm1a.

When i have the time i will try to listen in depth between mk2 and st10, but from the short time with st10 it seemed better technically and more detailed, but i find the mk2 very musical.


----------



## mbwilson111

kingdixon said:


> i find the mk2 very musical.



enjoying the music is the most important thing


----------



## kingdixon

mbwilson111 said:


> enjoying the music is the most important thing




Yup exactly, just some times we get lost in technicalities.

I loved all of the earbuds i received, i mean they are awesome quality for cost.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

kingdixon said:


> When i have the time i will try to listen in depth between mk2 and st10, but from the short time with st10 it seemed better technically and more detailed, but i find the mk2 very musical.


I have St10/vido/b40/willsound mk1 mk2 mk3 too

Its true. Willsond MK2 is not perfect but I like it more than Smabat ST-10 and all my earbuds are in signature.


----------



## kingdixon

Alex.Grimm said:


> I have St10/vido/b40/willsound mk1 mk2 mk3 too
> 
> Its true. Willsond MK2 is not perfect but I like it more than Smabat ST-10 and all my earbuds are in signature.



Glad to find someone with the same experience, because iam always in doubt as many variables affect how you listen to sound even if it is just mood, it makes a big difference for me.

I also want to add that i got 2 mk2s , one with vjc single ended cable and one with mmcx.

Mmcx sounds better bigger sound stage and tighter all over, i think thats due to going balanced.

One thing also i noticed without doing comparisons, that willsounds buds might hiss a bit more than the others, but to be sure about this  i have to a/b


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Sep 21, 2019)

jant71 said:


> Anybody know more about the BGVP DX5 yet?? We know its $79-ish and DLC driver but more about the signature and stuff. Been looking for a good MMCX bud that is not MX shell and has a signature for outdoors and not trying to be audiophiles which outside is lean and cold and has too little bass esp with any wind or other noise.



BGVP DX5 $65


Spoiler



https://penonaudio.com/bgvp-dx5.html


----------



## seanc6441

Jsingh4 said:


> So I received my B40 and I was just playing with it and I noticed that if you close back vents it gives you better bass so I tried using tapes to seal the vent bass was little better but it sounded little suffocated.
> So I just got an idea to put a form piece inside of the shell where vents are and oh my God the bass is slamming now back side is open just the inside is with the foam it feels like sound is little amplified and bass is so better.
> BTW the form I used was actually is from packing of RW9 and I cut to pieces and inserted in the shell and boom. If someone can try this mod and tell me if they feel a good difference too.


That's the effect I had with the Cygnus I was modding. You will sacrifice the openness/soundstage for bass.

It seems leaving a bass port on the steam open and closing 1 or 2 back vents gives you a sizeable boost around 50-70hz. But the loss of soundstage adds to the congestion so I find a balance between the two preferable even if closed vents sound much more addictive bass wise (some of the best earbud bass I've heard).


----------



## jogawag

palestofwhite said:


> All this talk about Docomo shells is making me consider the Shozy XB...





subwoof3r said:


> I decided to buy mainly because for now I don't have any Docomo shell at all, I'm curious about the performance of that shells, I heard very good things of it
> I will make a DIY project with them anyway  (mainly replacing cable and drivers, but I will listen to them stock to see and report, of course)
> Those Docomo shells (alone) are hard to find on ali.



You can purchase black and white Docomo(Variant) earbuds more cheaply from the link below.

https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?act=ST&f=132&t=4595690&st=0


----------



## flamesofarctica (Sep 20, 2019)

I got the ones with the Docomo shells from Chitty's store described as DIY PK2's myself, the sound is great but I really don't like the size of the stems on these shells, they seem disproportionate. They feel really weird in my ears, like they're just hanging on, and so I can't get them comfortable. That's the only reason they've not had much listening time, the feel of them annoys me! This is likely partly down to them just not suiting my ear shape, rather than a problem with the design itself.


----------



## jogawag

flamesofarctica said:


> I got the ones with the Docomo shells from Chitty's store described as DIY PK2's myself, the sound is great but I really don't like the size of the stems on these shells, they seem disproportionate. They feel really weird in my ears, like they're just hanging on, and so I can't get them comfortable. That's the only reason they've not had much listening time, the feel of them annoys me! This is likely partly down to them just not suiting my ear shape, rather than a problem with the design itself.


You can only think that the uncomfortable stems of Docomo (Variant) is still better than the uncomfortable IEM or headphones!


----------



## mbwilson111

flamesofarctica said:


> I got the ones with the Docomo shells from Chitty's store described as DIY PK2's myself, the sound is great but I really don't like the size of the stems on these shells, they seem disproportionate. They feel really weird in my ears, like they're just hanging on, and so I can't get them comfortable. That's the only reason they've not had much listening time, the feel of them annoys me! This is likely partly down to them just not suiting my ear shape, rather than a problem with the design itself.



That is interesting.  I love the long stems... to me it helps make them feel secure.as the longer part rests against my face.  I have more problems with my buds that have no stems because the gives me nothing to hold on to when trying to place them in  my ears. 

So, yes, maybe they do not suit your earshape...or maybe if you wear them for a longer time you could get used to the feeling.



jogawag said:


> You can only think that the uncomfortable stems of Docomo (Variant) is still better than the uncomfortable IEM or headphones!



I actually have some iems that are quite comfortable but I know what you mean.  I also have many comfortable headphones but I cannot wear them on hot days.  Buds are the best (only?) solution in the heat.


----------



## subwoof3r

jogawag said:


> You can purchase black and white Docomo(Variant) earbuds more cheaply from the link below.
> 
> https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?act=ST&f=132&t=4595690&st=0


Thank you but I'm looking for Docomo shells only, not complete earbuds 
I think the link I provided is the yet cheapest to get a complete earbuds based with those shells, but if somebody have an even cheaper link, I'm interested


----------



## flamesofarctica (Sep 21, 2019)

jogawag said:


> You can only think that the uncomfortable stems of Docomo (Variant) is still better than the uncomfortable IEM or headphones!



I'd rather wear them than IEMs definitely!



mbwilson111 said:


> That is interesting.  I love the long stems... to me it helps make them feel secure.as the longer part rests against my face.  I have more problems with my buds that have no stems because the gives me nothing to hold on to when trying to place them in  my ears.
> 
> So, yes, maybe they do not suit your earshape...or maybe if you wear them for a longer time you could get used to the feeling.
> 
> ...



I don't have much of a (that bit of the ear they should nestle behind) and I have big earlobes which sit at an odd angle.

In the days of earbuds being the norm, mostly with no foams and often with a heavy remote control to your Walkman, I thought they were the terrible things you had to balance in your ears and was lucky to get them to stay in for more than 30 seconds at a time. I couldn't believe it when canal fitting earphones came out, where had these been my whole life! They stayed in, full stop.

But they were never quite satisfactory to me in other ways. I didn't like the feel of the silicone tips in my ears. The sound could be good but I was aware of the isolation / lack of openness. As I found the tips uncomfortable, I tried foam tips. They were better for comfort, but the isolation aspect was horrible, almost claustrophobic. I stuck with IEMs however and got used to them as best I could, and as far as I could see, they were now all that was available aside from over ear headphones.

Somehow I started trying some of the IEMs from China, and reading HeadFi. Built up a quite a collection, a lot of KZ etc, some Tennmak ones which sounded great, some **** ones which looked amazing but were all treble... all-sorts.

Then I read a post somewhere praising the Monk+ as something special. I Iooked and behold the dreaded flat style earbuds. Ordered on a whim just because they were so cheap, they arrived the same day as a few IEM orders if I remember correctly.

The day they arrived was literally the day I stopped using IEMs.

They actually seemed to stay in, with the foams especially, which I wasn't expecting, and I fell for their open, almost speaker-like sound.

And I've given away all my IEMs bar a couple, and have a silly number of earbuds (blame this thread for that!)

They've also replaced a lot of my over ear headphone use as well, although I still sometimes use headphones if I'm in the mood, and buy the odd pair I fancy. Agree headphones aren't great in the hot weather!


----------



## golov17

subwoof3r said:


> Thank you but I'm looking for Docomo shells only, not complete earbuds
> I think the link I provided is the yet cheapest to get a complete earbuds based with those shells, but if somebody have an even cheaper link, I'm interested


http://www.ebay.com/itm/232351683122


----------



## subwoof3r

golov17 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/232351683122


My link still win  ($16.92)
But your variant looks interesting as it got a metal part at the back, which looks cool, so I have bookmarked it! thanks for your input


----------



## Willber (Sep 21, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> My link still win  ($16.92)


@golov17's link is *10* buds for $19.99...


----------



## subwoof3r

Willber said:


> @golov17's link is *10* buds for $19.99...


My bad! Sorry for misreading, excellent deal then! Many thanks


----------



## kingdixon (Sep 21, 2019)

i have a question regarding st10, when i raise the volume on my source wm1a, it tends to distort specially vocals (not sure if its distortion) but it loses too much clarity to a ghrrrrrrr sound. LOL

I tried to record it, dont know if it will be clear enough, but in the video i start at volume 80 and go to 100 on wm1a.



Is this normal or something is wrong ?

Edit : when iam back home i will try to record it more clearly without the background noise


----------



## cqtek (Sep 21, 2019)

Could the NiceHCK ME80 and the B40 have the same driver and that the sound differences are only due to the change of capsule? Judge for yourself.




Yes, I know they use different sized drivers, but the frequency response is very similar.


----------



## HungryPanda

The ME80 sound very different than the B40 to me


----------



## cqtek (Sep 21, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> The ME80 sound very different than the B40 to me



They sound different to me too, but I mean that both the fit and the capsule play a very important role in the final result. A microphone doesn't care about size or shape, as long as it's placed the same way. But we are affected by these things.

I never cease to be surprised that the measurements with the earbuds do not express how I feel the sound. In IEMS things are different.


----------



## kingdixon (Sep 21, 2019)

kingdixon said:


> i have a question regarding st10, when i raise the volume on my source wm1a, it tends to distort specially vocals (not sure if its distortion) but it loses too much clarity to a ghrrrrrrr sound. LOL
> 
> I tried to record it, dont know if it will be clear enough, but in the video i start at volume 80 and go to 100 on wm1a.
> 
> ...




This is another video that i find more clear.



Going from volume 90 to 110 balanced high gain on wm1a, you can hear by the end of the video how female voice sounds, also is this distortion ? Or is it called something else ?

If someone owns wm1a and st10, can test to see if this is normal or not ?

I have only experienced this also with sony ex800, i don't know if there is something wrong with the driver, or may be it is normal and just a limitation of the driver when handling higher power.

Thanks !


----------



## RobinFood

kingdixon said:


> i have a question regarding st10, when i raise the volume on my source wm1a, it tends to distort specially vocals (not sure if its distortion) but it loses too much clarity to a ghrrrrrrr sound. LOL
> 
> I tried to record it, dont know if it will be clear enough, but in the video i start at volume 80 and go to 100 on wm1a.
> 
> ...




I had the same issue on my second pair of ST-10. I found out that the issue was with a rattling on low frequencies when the volume was too high. I returned it and the third pair was finally perfect. Do a sine sweep on YouTube with loudish volume see if you can here any distortion or rattling in the bass. If you can get it exchanged, it's a defect.


----------



## kingdixon (Sep 22, 2019)

RobinFood said:


> I had the same issue on my second pair of ST-10. I found out that the issue was with a rattling on low frequencies when the volume was too high. I returned it and the third pair was finally perfect. Do a sine sweep on YouTube with loudish volume see if you can here any distortion or rattling in the bass. If you can get it exchanged, it's a defect.



Will try that when iam back home ..

I noticed something funny though when looking at the shells.



The grills on the right side is smaller in size but are larger in count, could this be causing a problem because i think that this is not normal, did someone try to remove the grills before ?

btw one grill has 4 column holes, and the other 5 columns


----------



## flamesofarctica

kingdixon said:


> Will try that when iam back home ..
> 
> I noticed something funny though when looking at the shells.
> 
> ...



Hope you get sorted with a decent fresh pair  Ideally ones where it looks like the left and right were at least made in the same factory!

Were there not mmcx problems early on as well for some people?

It's an interesting looking earbud, and from reviews possibly up there with some of the best, but off-putting to read of what seems a lot of QC issues


----------



## kingdixon

flamesofarctica said:


> Hope you get sorted with a decent fresh pair  Ideally ones where it looks like the left and right were at least made in the same factory!
> 
> Were there not mmcx problems early on as well for some people?
> 
> It's an interesting looking earbud, and from reviews possibly up there with some of the best, but off-putting to read of what seems a lot of QC issues



ye thats too bad, i still don't know if i will contact jim for replacement, i paid more than half price in customs and shipping to egypt,

i still don't know what i will do, but thanks !


----------



## RobinFood

flamesofarctica said:


> Hope you get sorted with a decent fresh pair  Ideally ones where it looks like the left and right were at least made in the same factory!
> 
> Were there not mmcx problems early on as well for some people?
> 
> It's an interesting looking earbud, and from reviews possibly up there with some of the best, but off-putting to read of what seems a lot of QC issues



Yeah, I also noticed grill issues on my second pair. Most holes on the sides seem to be non functional anyways. Shined under a light they are blocked. That being said I think the grill doesn't make much of a sound difference and think you could get the same sound without a grill.

I played with the grill a little trying to rub off some glue and found that it bent super easy. I was told it is probably steel but the ms16 grill folded a similar way and was basically aluminum foil on a cardboard sticker when I removed that one.

I had qc issues on my first 2 pairs bought through the nicehck Amazon store here in Japan and only got a good version when I switched to a less popular store. It could be luck but I also feel it is interesting you have a seemingly defective pair coming from the same store.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

kingdixon said:


> The grills on the right side is smaller in size but are larger in count, could this be causing a problem because i think that this is not normal, did someone try to remove the grills before ?
> 
> btw one grill has 4 column holes, and the other 5 columns





Spoiler


----------



## kingdixon

RobinFood said:


> Yeah, I also noticed grill issues on my second pair. Most holes on the sides seem to be non functional anyways. Shined under a light they are blocked. That being said I think the grill doesn't make much of a sound difference and think you could get the same sound without a grill.
> 
> I played with the grill a little trying to rub off some glue and found that it bent super easy. I was told it is probably steel but the ms16 grill folded a similar way and was basically aluminum foil on a cardboard sticker when I removed that one.
> 
> I had qc issues on my first 2 pairs bought through the nicehck Amazon store here in Japan and only got a good version when I switched to a less popular store. It could be luck but I also feel it is interesting you have a seemingly defective pair coming from the same store.



Yee thats interesting, 

as for the grill, blocking it kills the bass but the sound is almost clean again, removing it unleashes full bass which eventually produces more rattle or distortion for me, 

under the grill only a small hole in the exact middle , so its mainly the middle of the grill that works but the surrounding faces a wall.


----------



## RobinFood

kingdixon said:


> Yee thats interesting,
> 
> as for the grill, blocking it kills the bass but the sound is almost clean again, removing it unleashes full bass which eventually produces more rattle or distortion for me,
> 
> under the grill only a small hole in the exact middle , so its mainly the middle of the grill that works but the surrounding faces a wall.



Oh yeah, blocking the holes does make a difference, but I mostly meant I think it would sound mostly the same if you removed it completely but it would probably get a lot of junk in it's maze port, especially if you wear them backwards...


----------



## seanc6441

RobinFood said:


> Oh yeah, blocking the holes does make a difference, but I mostly meant I think it would sound mostly the same if you removed it completely but it would probably get a lot of junk in it's maze port, especially if you wear them backwards...


Sounds like the driver is simply loose and rattling on bass frequencies. Removing the vent would change the sound as the filter is tuning the bass response. But i think getting a replacement unit is the best option for him if your earbud is distorting/rattling at normal volumes.


----------



## waynes world

kingdixon said:


> ye thats too bad, i still don't know if i will contact jim for replacement, i paid more than half price in customs and shipping to egypt,
> 
> i still don't know what i will do, but thanks !



You tried sucking on the driver, right? (no, I'm not joking)


----------



## kingdixon (Sep 22, 2019)

waynes world said:


> You tried sucking on the driver, right? (no, I'm not joking)



well, while i am not proud to say so, but i sucked on all the vents on it.


----------



## groucho69

kingdixon said:


> well, while i am not proud to say so, but i sucked on all the vents on it.



Hi I'm groucho and I'm a vent sucker...


----------



## ClieOS

Replacement iz probably the best option. We know both Jim from NiceHCK and Smabat themselves are fairly quick to respond on repair/replacement.


----------



## Mhog55

Received my 3rd and 4th sets of buds yesterday - PT15 and BK2. I suppose if we consider my Ty Hi-z 150s an average sounding bud, these are a slight step up, but nothing overly impressive to my ears. I like the BK2 a bit better than the PT15. I'm really digging the removable cable.
So, a few more questions. How difficult are the Toneking 150 / 200 and 400 to drive? Which models can I properly drive with my Opus#1s? I'd also like to ask frequent flyers of this thread, which earbuds with removable cable would you consider the absolute best in terms of imaging and instrument separation? I feel like these new buds I acquired still have bleed, clarity and congestion issues.
Lastly, where is a good place to shop for earbud accessories, and what other options are there for covers other than foamies and donuts?


----------



## Mhog55

Oh, and I forgot - Anyone using the BGVP DX3 buds, and how do they stack up?


----------



## XP_98

RobinFood said:


> I just got these yesterday. I am still forking an opinion on then.
> They are the Pureson Audio 150 ohm PK bud. They were 39 USD, with shipping. I really wanted to try PK shells and high ohm earbuds so this was a good chance.
> 
> I don't think they will be taking down my Smabat but I also ordered them because the fit on the Smabat was sometimes annoying.
> ...


I ordered a pair too, with 2 cables as I chose a Yuin shell with mmcx.
I will get them this week, I can already confirm the great possibilities of customisation.


----------



## 40760

Too bad I missed the delivery of the KubePlus... Can only collect them tomorrow from the local post...


----------



## ClieOS

JVC HA-F160
NiceHCK B40
DQSM Turandot
Oren 40 by 꿈결소리 "Dream Sound"


----------



## kingdixon

Thank you guys for your input, i think i might contact jim about it, not sure yet.

one strange thing i need to mention though, i ordered my first st10 like 8 month ago from some other seller but i never received them, i already disputed for them on Ali like 3 month ago, just an hour ago i got a call from the postoffice saying it is just out of customs BAAAM !! and should be delivered any day, the timing is just on spot


----------



## Spie1904

ClieOS said:


> JVC HA-F160
> NiceHCK B40
> DQSM Turandot
> Oren 40 by 꿈결소리 "Dream Sound"



Are these your all time favorites ?
After trying many IEM's, I've tried my first high end earbud and the PK yuin shells are so comfortable for me. The open sound also really helps. Hence I'm keeping my eyes open for any great high end earbuds with replaceable cables in the future.


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> Too bad I missed the delivery of the KubePlus... Can only collect them tomorrow from the local post...



KubePlus?  have I missed something?


----------



## mbwilson111

Spie1904 said:


> Are these your all time favorites ?
> After trying many IEM's, I've tried my first high end earbud and the PK yuin shells are so comfortable for me. The open sound also really helps. Hence I'm keeping my eyes open for any great high end earbuds with replaceable cables in the future.



ClieOS is the thread owner and if you look at the first few posts you will see that he has compiled photos of all the buds ever made... or almost.  This latest photo is of his newest ones.  He likes to tease us with pretty pictures  Of course most of us already know that the NiceHCK B40 is excellent.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

mbwilson111 said:


> KubePlus?  have I missed something?





Spoiler



http://www.rholupat.com/indonesian-buds


----------



## ClieOS

Spie1904 said:


> Are these your all time favorites ?
> After trying many IEM's, I've tried my first high end earbud and the PK yuin shells are so comfortable for me. The open sound also really helps. Hence I'm keeping my eyes open for any great high end earbuds with replaceable cables in the future.



If I keep such a list, the two on the right will no doubt be on it.


----------



## RobinFood

ClieOS said:


> If I keep such a list, the two on the right will no doubt be on it.



Does the Turandot have metal PK shells? They look nice! How is the sound?


----------



## RobinFood (Sep 23, 2019)

XP_98 said:


> I ordered a pair too, with 2 cables as I chose a Yuin shell with mmcx.
> I will get them this week, I can already confirm the great possibilities of customisation.



Yes, Japanese shipping is crazy fast to the point that Amazon had to delay shipping on standard orders to make prime seem useful.

I would suggest not to make up your mind on first listen. With burn in they seem to be getting better and better all the time. I was disappointed by the mids those first few days, but I am getting addicted to how thick those mids sound. The highs are slowly coming out too. Really a unique bud for sure, laid back but very detailed.

It's so weird, it will never be sibilant even on songs that seemingly purposefully have it like the 8th year live version of the song "To the beginning" by Kalafina...


----------



## ClieOS

RobinFood said:


> Does the Turandot have metal PK shells? They look nice! How is the sound?





ClieOS said:


> Zinc-magnesium alloy.



Slightly warm with good reach on both ends, plus a specious yet immersive soundstage. To put it short, it is just an all round excellent sound.


----------



## dharmasteve (Sep 23, 2019)

OK guys Smabat M1 Pro Earbud  or BGVP DX5? Similar price. Anyone heard either?


----------



## Spie1904

ClieOS said:


> If I keep such a list, the two on the right will no doubt be on it.



Ha I don't even recognize buds. Totally new to earbud scene.
So far I only have the super nightingale which have made me very happy. 
Considering trying some other earbuds to be able to compare but not sure what to get for smallest (yuin) shell,replaceable  cable and good all-rounder sound


----------



## Mhog55

dharmasteve said:


> OK guys Smabat M1 Pro Earbud  or BGVP DX5. Similar price. Anyone heard either.


I think I'll eventually end up with both. I don't think the M1 Pro is available quite yet.


----------



## HungryPanda

Mhog55 said:


> I think I'll eventually end up with both. I don't think the M1 Pro is available quite yet.


That's the Head-Fi spirit


----------



## snowmind

The B40 is NiceHCK's second best selling bud in a short time, it can already be considered a success as it has over 820 orders and is fighting against several other models from other brands.


----------



## dharmasteve (Sep 23, 2019)

Mhog55 said:


> I think I'll eventually end up with both. I don't think the M1 Pro is available quite yet.



I just got a nicehck Jim email saying the M1 is ready to order.
Or preorder???


----------



## waynes world

dharmasteve said:


> I just got a nicehck Jim email saying the M1 is ready to order.
> Or preorder???



Yes, $59 for "old friends". Gulp!


----------



## rkw

kingdixon said:


> one strange thing i need to mention though, i ordered my first st10 like 8 month ago from some other seller but i never received them, i already disputed for them on Ali like 3 month ago, just an hour ago i got a call from the postoffice saying it is just out of customs BAAAM !! and should be delivered any day, the timing is just on spot


Workers at customs and the postoffice have been enjoying your ST-10 for the past 8 months?  At least it will be burned in.


----------



## snowmind

The B40 has just arrived and the packaging, before natural burn, the sound is already powerful, stage with great width, depth and precision. Neutral signature with a lot of energy and definition, certainly on the warm and musical side.

Today, after work, i will run and use this new NiceHCK for auditions, in the coming weeks will come back with a definite evaluation.


----------



## FastAndClean

hi old friend, you can buy from here, you will love it, buy now


----------



## Mhog55

dharmasteve said:


> I just got a nicehck Jim email saying the M1 is ready to order.
> Or preorder???


Yep, available now. Looks like five people have pulled the trigger so far.


----------



## Mhog55

HungryPanda said:


> That's the Head-Fi spirit


Heck yes!


----------



## kingdixon (Sep 24, 2019)

rkw said:


> Workers at customs and the postoffice have been enjoying your ST-10 for the past 8 months?  At least it will be burned in.



I wonder what the upgrade they got from some other shipment to let go of my st10 LOL

But they are really stupid, i just remembered something funny that happened a couple of years ago, bryan adams was on tour and he came to egypt, the customs of the airport wrote todays date on his guitar in arabic.


----------



## jogawag (Sep 23, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> Slightly warm with good reach on both ends, plus a specious yet immersive soundstage. To put it short, it is just an all round excellent sound.



How is the product B40 sound for the adviser you? And please compare B40 with Turandot. At last please tell me whether Turandot can be in TOTL and where I can buy Turandot.


----------



## ClieOS (Sep 23, 2019)

jogawag said:


> How is the product B40 sound for the adviser you? And please compare B40 with Turandot. At last please tell me whether Turandot can be in TOTL and where I can buy Turandot.



The original B40 prototype I received is more like an entry level earbud, decent but otherwise unremarkable. The final production is however what I'll classify as a mid to upper-mid tier level, fairly close to the sound signature I was aiming for, which is a balance between technicality as well as tuned more toward mainstream music. The idea is never to make anything ToTL since NiceHCK had a price range in mind and any overly complex retuning will end up costing too much. Still, the end result I think has spoken for itself.

B40 actually does share a large part of the same sound signature as Turandot except the later is several magnitude grander in every aspect. It still however has more or less a sound for mainstream music, but on the other hand still good enough that most other genre of music will not suffer too much. As I have said before, it has a very well rounded sound,  definitely belong to the ToTL level.

Turandot has not officially released yet. DQSM has been showcasing the prototype and collecting feedback in China for awhile now, though the pair I have is the mass-production model that will be launched soon'ish. For now, you will have to know someone to be able to get an early pair.


----------



## jogawag (Sep 23, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> The original B40 prototype I received is more like an entry level earbud, decent but otherwise unremarkable. The final production is however what I'll classify as a mid to upper-mid tier level, fairly close to the sound signature I was aiming for, which is a balance between technicality as well as tuned more toward mainstream music. The idea is never to make anything ToTL since NiceHCK had a price range in mind and any overly complex retuning will end up costing too much. Still, the end result I think has spoken for itself.
> 
> B40 actually does share a large part of the same sound signature as Turandot except the later is several magnitude grander in every aspect. It still however has more or less a sound for mainstream music, but on the other hand still good enough that most other genre of music will not suffer too much. As I have said before, it has a very well rounded sound,  definitely belong to the ToTL level.
> 
> Turandot has not officially released yet. DQSM has been showcasing the prototype and collecting feedback in China for awhile now, though the pair I have is the mass-production model that will be launched soon'ish. For now, you will have to know someone to be able to get an early pair.



Thank you for your precious information about B40 and Turandot.
Then I would buy Turandot too, if not very expensive and not high impedance.


----------



## ClieOS

jogawag said:


> Thank you for your precious information about B40 and Turandot.
> Then I would buy Turandot too, if not very expensive and not high impedance.



16 ohm, price is around $210 or so. I asked and they told me ETA is about a week or so.


----------



## chinerino

Hi recently my HE150PRO driver started to have static sounds which annoyed the crap out of me, just wanna know what are the options available now? 

I really liked the open-backed design of HE150 Pro the spacious sound , that warmth with donut foams and naked clarity of it. May i know how to fix it? or I should buy other ear buds? I am a neutral head, I have portable dac amps available and my budget is prolly around 40USD 
currently thinking of 

-VE MONK plus 
-NICEHCK B40 
-Another HE150 Pro ( I really loved it enough to buy another one)
- RY4S
- any other suggestions?


----------



## dharmasteve

ClieOS said:


> The original B40 prototype I received is more like an entry level earbud, decent but otherwise unremarkable. The final production is however what I'll classify as a mid to upper-mid tier level, fairly close to the sound signature I was aiming for, which is a balance between technicality as well as tuned more toward mainstream music. The idea is never to make anything ToTL since NiceHCK had a price range in mind and any overly complex retuning will end up costing too much. Still, the end result I think has spoken for itself.
> 
> B40 actually does share a large part of the same sound signature as Turandot except the later is several magnitude grander in every aspect. It still however has more or less a sound for mainstream music, but on the other hand still good enough that most other genre of music will not suffer too much. As I have said before, it has a very well rounded sound,  definitely belong to the ToTL level.
> 
> Turandot has not officially released yet. DQSM has been showcasing the prototype and collecting feedback in China for awhile now, though the pair I have is the mass-production model that will be launched soon'ish. For now, you will have to know someone to be able to get an early pair.



I have the most recent B40, it is for me, the best value earbud or IEM, I have owned. A superb earbud. "Simples"


----------



## chinerino

dharmasteve said:


> I have the most recent B40, it is for me, the best value earbud or IEM, I have owned. A superb earbud. "Simples"


is the B40 neutral?


----------



## dharmasteve (Sep 24, 2019)

chinerino said:


> is the B40 neutral?



I probably have used them for about 80 hours, so they may not have fully burned in yet. Compared to most of my other earphones, yes they are neutal enough. They have extreme clarity. I tend to up-equalise highs if the earphone can take it as I like sparkle that is non fatiguing. I find that the B40 takes equalisation exceptionally well. So I would say they are as neutral as you want them to be. For the cost they are uncanny.


----------



## robar

I've noticed that the description of B40 got expanded on Ali, but there is a contradiction there. In the specs the driver is listed as 14.8mm PET dynamic unit but a few sections below it's shown as 15.4mm. So, is this a typo or they managed to squeeze in a 15.4mm driver into a 14.8mm shell?
Here's the page for convenience: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000120453244.html


----------



## snowmind (Sep 24, 2019)

@robar

We must send a notification to Mr. Jim NiceHCK to provide the correction. Apart from this mistake, the ad presentation was excellent!

Did you get your B40 unit? What are your impressions? In the still preliminary battle against RY4S, White Vido, Qian25 and Qian69 i felt that the B40 outperformed all these buds in individual aspects.


----------



## robar

snowmind said:


> @robar
> 
> We must send a notification to Mr. Jim NiceHCK to provide the correction. Apart from this mistake, the ad presentation was excellent!
> 
> Did you get your B40 unit? What are your impressions? In the still preliminary battle against RY4S, White Vido, Qian25 and Qian69 i felt that the B40 outperformed all these buds in individual aspects.


Sadly I haven't received my B40 or SR2 yet. There isn't any new entries in the tracking log since the start of September, so I'm a bit worried that something happened. My SR2 already had a shipping fail and I got a new tracking number for it. I'm not sure what's the reason but every order of mine takes at least 1.5x time to arrive since august.  Plus I destroyed my tc200 by opening up the shell, and every other part I ordered for DIY was not compatible with what I hoped, so I'm a bit desperate right now lol


----------



## snowmind

robar said:


> Sadly I haven't received my B40 or SR2 yet. There isn't any new entries in the tracking log since the start of September, so I'm a bit worried that something happened. My SR2 already had a shipping fail and I got a new tracking number for it. I'm not sure what's the reason but every order of mine takes at least 1.5x time to arrive since august.  Plus I destroyed my tc200 by opening up the shell, and every other part I ordered for DIY was not compatible with what I hoped, so I'm a bit desperate right now lol



In my country, the Post Office is scrapped with operational losses and is entering the privatization process. I also had problems receiving packages from abroad, mainly from China. Hope all is well with your buds and, when you receive them, provide us with a review.


----------



## robar

snowmind said:


> In my country, the Post Office is scrapped with operational losses and is entering the privatization process. I also had problems receiving packages from abroad, mainly from China. Hope all is well with your buds and, when you receive them, provide us with a review.


Thanks, our postal service is also in a very bad shape, so I understand.   Sometimes it takes longer to make the final 15km to our house than the whole international shipping part. I'll definitely write reviews!

By the way, has anyone opened a red vido? I'd be interested in the tuning inside. If it really sounds different compared to regular ones than it should have something obvious in the shell, like foam strip on the drivers or something like that.


----------



## Chris674

robar said:


> Thanks, our postal service is also in a very bad shape, so I understand.   Sometimes it takes longer to make the final 15km to our house than the whole international shipping part. I'll definitely write reviews!
> 
> By the way, has anyone opened a red vido? I'd be interested in the tuning inside. If it really sounds different compared to regular ones than it should have something obvious in the shell, like foam strip on the drivers or something like that.


I just recabled a pair of red Vidos. Didn't think to check for differences inside the shell. In my opinion there are differences soundwise. My blues are recabled. They're mellow, laid back with the least bass. Whites are still on the stock cable and are very warm and very bassy. Reds are lively and energetic. Hard to tell if that was put into my head because those are the consensus opinions of the different colors but it fits my experience.


----------



## robar (Sep 24, 2019)

Chris674 said:


> I just recabled a pair of red Vidos. Didn't think to check for differences inside the shell. In my opinion there are differences soundwise. My blues are recabled. They're mellow, laid back with the least bass. Whites are still on the stock cable and are very warm and very bassy. Reds are lively and energetic. Hard to tell if that was put into my head because those are the consensus opinions of the different colors but it fits my experience.


I hear and measure significant differences between my whites and blues, in line with your impressions. White is bassy and v shaped, blue is flatter with less extension and overall soft sound. In my blue vido the horseshoe tuning foam is 2x as thick as in white, so that must be the cause. It would be useful even from a diy standpoint to understand how to tune a warm and bassy sound to be balanced and lively without going soft and boxy. But I don't want to encourage you to open up the red again, vidos are notorious for their fragile drivers. As soon as a little crack opens in the plastic the driver could fall apart at any time-


----------



## Chris674

I'm in a "fun bud" kind of mood. Listened to my Sabia V6 for a good while yesterday morning and followed with some Kube v1 for dinner. Couple of thoughts/questions. Are the Sabia V7 similar to the V6? What am I missing between the buds I listed and the Willsound MK2?


----------



## pfloyd

Wow, these Nicehck B40s are astonishingly good, such a vivid soundscape providing space for even the most complex prog-rock to bloom with crystal clarity. Really nothing is missing. Finally something to give my monk OGs competition. I was very disappointed with the FAAEAL Snow lotus 1.0+ CE.
Amazing how such sonic bliss can be had for so little coin


----------



## mbwilson111

chinerino said:


> Hi recently my HE150PRO driver started to have static sounds which annoyed the crap out of me, just wanna know what are the options available now?



Do you think the cable is causing the problem?  Does it only happen if you move the cable?   If so, you could recable it... or ask someone to help you.  Don't just throw it away.


----------



## snowmind (Sep 24, 2019)

pfloyd said:


> Wow, these Nicehck B40s are astonishingly good, such a vivid soundscape providing space for even the most complex prog-rock to bloom with crystal clarity.



The B40 fire baptism I did last night took place with the most violent and congested heavy metal genres (thrash, death, black and groove). I needed to know how he would behave in the face of this great storm.

Gave all this to my B40 and it was effective in battle, played very naturally, was not anemic and did not escape the demand that was imposed. It played without entangling or distorting any frequency.

I like the buds with speed, control, power and heat across the spectrum, the fit and driver chosen in this project enchant.


----------



## Mhog55

Can someone post a link to these new B40s? I'm only finding the 8 dollar version at Nicehck.


----------



## HungryPanda

Those are the ones, the B40 is made by NiceHCK


----------



## Mhog55

HungryPanda said:


> Those are the ones, the B40 is made by NiceHCK


A few posts ago, somebody was talking about a new 250 dollar version....I think. If this 8 dollar bud is really that great, I can't wait to try the EBX. It must sound insane


----------



## dharmasteve

That's the shock of the B40s is that they are under £10.00. I have earbuds and IEMs that cost 15 times as much and are not a great deal better. A great bargain. I don't know what quality control is like though.


----------



## assassin10000 (Sep 24, 2019)

Mhog55 said:


> A few posts ago, somebody was talking about a new 250 dollar version....I think. If this 8 dollar bud is really that great, I can't wait to try the EBX. It must sound insane



EBX is pretty good. A bit too upper mid/lower treble forward imo, so it was fatiguing for me on long sessions. Overall still a very good bud. Be warned, its housing is relatively heavy and it does not like to stay in ear when worn cable down.


----------



## Mhog55

assassin10000 said:


> EBX is pretty good. A bit too upper mid/lower treble forward imo, so it was fatiguing for me on long sessions. Overall still a very good bud. Be warned, its housing is relatively heavy and it does not like to stay in ear when worn cable down.


More heavy than the st15


assassin10000 said:


> EBX is pretty good. A bit too upper mid/lower treble forward imo, so it was fatiguing for me on long sessions. Overall still a very good bud. Be warned, its housing is relatively heavy and it does not like to stay in ear when worn cable down.


Heavier than the pt15 you sold me? I'm beginning to think that most buds are tuned with either elevated low or upper mids. If I find the pt15 a bit too much in the upper mids / lower treble, would I not enjoy the EBX? Is it even more so?


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm enjoying the Moondrop VX Classic tonight and the shells are small and light, I had to add a rubber ring just to make them fit my ears.  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32961945571.html


----------



## DBaldock9

Mhog55 said:


> More heavy than the st15
> 
> Heavier than the pt15 you sold me? I'm beginning to think that most buds are tuned with either elevated low or upper mids. If I find the pt15 a bit too much in the upper mids / lower treble, would I not enjoy the EBX? Is it even more so?



For my ears, the EBX has a little bit more low Bass than the ST-10, and they both have more Bass than the PT15. In order of wearing comfort (with cables over-the-ear), they would be: (more) PT15 -> ST-10 -> EBX (less) 
But, I like the overall sound of the ST-10 the best.
So, I'm looking forward to trying the new Smabat M1.


----------



## assassin10000

Mhog55 said:


> More heavy than the st15
> 
> Heavier than the pt15 you sold me? I'm beginning to think that most buds are tuned with either elevated low or upper mids. If I find the pt15 a bit too much in the upper mids / lower treble, would I not enjoy the EBX? Is it even more so?



Similar or more weight. Problem is, that weight is balanced further out than the PT15 iirc, so cable down wasn't really an option imo.


I never directly compared the two, as I owned them months apart. It's been too long to do it  off of memory. Maybe @DBaldock9 who iirc owns both can chime in?


----------



## DBaldock9

assassin10000 said:


> Similar or more weight. Problem is, that weight is balanced further out than the PT15 iirc, so cable down wasn't really an option imo.
> 
> 
> I never directly compared the two, as I owned them months apart. It's been too long to do it  off of memory. Maybe @DBaldock9 who iirc owns both can chime in?



We were posting at the same time...


----------



## flamesofarctica

Mhog55 said:


> More heavy than the st15
> 
> Heavier than the pt15 you sold me? I'm beginning to think that most buds are tuned with either elevated low or upper mids. If I find the pt15 a bit too much in the upper mids / lower treble, would I not enjoy the EBX? Is it even more so?



I find it hard to believe any earbud can be as unpleasant sounding as the PT15. My least favourite earbud purchase of all time!


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> But, I like the overall sound of the ST-10 the best.
> So, I'm looking forward to trying the new Smabat M1.



Have you ordered the M1's? If you get them soon, I'll be interested in your impressions.


----------



## Mhog55

DBaldock9 said:


> For my ears, the EBX has a little bit more low Bass than the ST-10, and they both have more Bass than the PT15. In order of wearing comfort (with cables over-the-ear), they would be: (more) PT15 -> ST-10 -> EBX (less)
> But, I like the overall sound of the ST-10 the best.
> So, I'm looking forward to trying the new Smabat M1.


Cool. The M1 is probably next up for me. I don't care for the pt15 much. I like the **** bk2 quite a bit more. I'd also like to acquire the BGVP dx5 soon.


----------



## HungryPanda

the BGVP dx5 does interest me, I really like my dx3s


----------



## Mhog55

flamesofarctica said:


> I find it hard to believe any earbud can be as unpleasant sounding as the PT15. My least favourite earbud purchase of all time!


It's definitely not the greatest haha


----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> Have you ordered the M1's? If you get them soon, I'll be interested in your impressions.



Maybe tonight.
Also need to order a replacement for the HiFi BCD X10 that I've just disassembled...


----------



## Willber

Mhog55 said:


> A few posts ago, somebody was talking about a new 250 dollar version....I think.


Someone asked earlier for a comparison between the B40 and DQSM Turandot which are (or will be) $210 - perhaps that's what you remember?

Anyway, I bumped into these and bought them before asking anything about them:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32981780764.html

Have I made a mistake?


----------



## Mhog55

No responses, so I'll try again. How difficult are each of the Toneking 150 / 200 / 400 to drive? Can anyone summarize the tonality differences of the 3?
My Opus#1s has 3.2 and 3.4 VRMs of power. 
My LG V40 has 2.1 VRMs of power. I'm assuming they should be able to drive the 200s, but not sure about the 400s.


----------



## HungryPanda

Willber said:


> Someone asked earlier for a comparison between the B40 and DQSM Turandot which are (or will be) $210 - perhaps that's what you remember?
> 
> Anyway, I bumped into these and bought them before asking anything about them:
> 
> ...


these are actually pretty great for the price they are. The bass is excellent for an earbud


----------



## Mhog55

Willber said:


> Someone asked earlier for a comparison between the B40 and DQSM Turandot which are (or will be) $210 - perhaps that's what you remember?
> 
> Anyway, I bumped into these and bought them before asking anything about them:
> 
> ...


You are correct


----------



## Willber

HungryPanda said:


> these are actually pretty great for the price they are. The bass is excellent for an earbud


Cool.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have the LG V30+ and can use my TO400s and at a volume level of 32 is as loud as I can stand


----------



## Mhog55

HungryPanda said:


> I have the LG V30+ and can use my TO400s and at a volume level of 32 is as loud as I can stand


32?! How do you like them? Sound good? Are they too heavy to wear cable down


----------



## HungryPanda

They are very good, I love the Toneking tuning. I wear them down


----------



## Mhog55

HungryPanda said:


> They are very good, I love the Toneking tuning. I wear them down


Cool. So I think I'll check the EBX off my list, and add the TO400.


----------



## Mhog55

Anybody using these yet?


----------



## assassin10000

First time building my own earbuds. Modified mmcx housings and the popular PK DIY SR2 16ohm drivers (at least according to Chitty store on AE which sells both). Just finished them up, verified phase/polarity is good and currently have them on burn-in (100+ hrs is reported necessary).


----------



## Mhog55

assassin10000 said:


> First time building my own earbuds. Modified mmcx housings and the popular PK DIY SR2 16ohm drivers (at least according to Chitty store on AE which sells both). Just finished them up, verified phase/polarity is good and currently have them on burn-in (100+ hrs is reported necessary).


Very nice bud. Those look great


----------



## Mhog55

So what's the deal with 100 plus burn in hours for earbuds? Is this some sort of mandatory between earbud enthusiasts? I know there has been great debate regarding headphone burn in, and I can't really say if I'm on or off board with it. I've really only noticed detectable differences over time with one headphone (Nightowl) I get the rationale behind it, but it would seem less needed when dealing with these tiny earbud drivers, or is it the opposite for some reason?


----------



## assassin10000

Mhog55 said:


> Very nice bud. Those look great



Thanks. Hoping they sound just as good  .



Mhog55 said:


> So what's the deal with 100 plus burn in hours for earbuds? Is this some sort of mandatory between earbud enthusiasts? I know there has been great debate regarding headphone burn in, and I can't really say if I'm on or off board with it. I've really only noticed detectable differences over time with one headphone (Nightowl) I get the rationale behind it, but it would seem less needed when dealing with these tiny earbud drivers, or is it the opposite for some reason?



Nah. I do it 'just in case'. 

As far as that DIY SR2 16ohm driver I just used for my diy earbuds, it was reported in this thread that particular driver needed that amount of burn in. Ymmv.


I never did a back to back test with a pair burned in and a new pair.


----------



## chinerino

mbwilson111 said:


> Do you think the cable is causing the problem?  Does it only happen if you move the cable?   If so, you could recable it... or ask someone to help you.  Don't just throw it away.


but i think cost of fixing it costs more than buying a new one lol


----------



## chinerino

And may i ask what is the difference between RY4S HI/UE/PLUS? im very confused thinking to buy the mmcx 300ohms version but not sure what other options offers


----------



## ClieOS

Mhog55 said:


> So what's the deal with 100 plus burn in hours for earbuds? Is this some sort of mandatory between earbud enthusiasts? I know there has been great debate regarding headphone burn in, and I can't really say if I'm on or off board with it. I've really only noticed detectable differences over time with one headphone (Nightowl) I get the rationale behind it, but it would seem less needed when dealing with these tiny earbud drivers, or is it the opposite for some reason?



We like to age SQ like fine wine but also hopelessly wishing it won't turn into vinegar.


----------



## ClieOS

Yincrow RW-1000: carbon fiber diaphragm with titanium coating, price around $155, ETA end of the month


----------



## 40760

So many new earbuds... so little money...


----------



## HungryPanda

I know and not enough time to listen to them all


----------



## mbwilson111

chinerino said:


> but i think cost of fixing it costs more than buying a new one lol



The HE150PRO costs $29.   You can get a new cable for $7 or less.   If you  need help with the soldering I know there are many earbud enthusiasts in your country.   Many of them are on the EA group on FB.

here is an example https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32825334277.html

or, less expensive .. and closer to what we spend on diy cables.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32736401844.html

You can also do a search and find many options


----------



## ClieOS

Someone is saying what?


----------



## jogawag (Sep 25, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> Someone is saying what?



How is the Smabat M1 Pro's sound comparing Smabat ST-10's?  Especially Bass sound?


----------



## Xamdou

Not sure if it's already mentioned. For those interested in OURART QJ21, you are able to trade in your old ourart earbud and receive a discount(depending on model) for your preorder in taobao.

You will only need to send in your old earbud after receiving your new one


----------



## RobinFood

ClieOS said:


> Someone is saying what?



How do you have time to listen to all that gear?
Also which do you choose as your daily drivers when you are not listening to brand new buds?


----------



## assassin10000

ClieOS said:


>



Oooh. Nice.

Mind measuring the M1 pro O.D. once you unbox it? Also, like many here, eagerly waiting for your impressions.


----------



## chinerino

mbwilson111 said:


> The HE150PRO costs $29.   You can get a new cable for $7 or less.   If you  need help with the soldering I know there are many earbud enthusiasts in your country.   Many of them are on the EA group on FB.
> 
> here is an example https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32825334277.html
> 
> ...


the driver is the problem.....


----------



## mbwilson111

chinerino said:


> the driver is the problem.....



ok, from how you described it at first I thought maybe it was the cable connection.


----------



## ClieOS (Sep 25, 2019)

jogawag said:


> How is the Smabat M1 Pro's sound comparing Smabat ST-10's?  Especially Bass sound?





assassin10000 said:


> Oooh. Nice.
> 
> Mind measuring the M1 pro O.D. once you unbox it? Also, like many here, eagerly waiting for your impressions.



So far, I think M1 sounds like a scaled down, 85% version of ST-10 with 60% of the price tag. It still has more or less the same neutral'ish tone to its sound signature, all the good things we have heard on the ST-10 but kinda more intimate with a slight hint of warmth. If not for ST-10 already setting a high bar, the M1 would have been an fairly impressive earbud on its own. While it might not be sonically an upgrade over ST-10, it is still nonetheless a really excellent earbuds. On the other hand, It does positively feel like the smallest earbud I ever tried, even feel smaller than PK shell in the ears.








RobinFood said:


> How do you have time to listen to all that gear?
> Also which do you choose as your daily drivers when you are not listening to brand new buds?



It is not about trying to listen to all of them, but to get to enjoy whatever time I have with any of them. That being said, I don't have a daily driver for earbuds, just kinda pick up whichever pair I have on my desktop at the moment and sometime change around after awhile.


----------



## ClieOS

瑞友MC9D
BGVP DX5
K's Earphones 'Smurf' / 'Blue Elf' (蓝精灵)
Smabat M1 Pro


----------



## mbwilson111

ClieOS said:


> So far, I think M1 sounds like a scaled down, 85% version of ST-10 with 60% of the price tag. It still has more or less the same neutral'ish tone to its sound signature, all the good things we have heard on the ST-10 but kinda more intimate with a slight hint of warmth. If not for ST-10 already setting a high bar, the M1 would have been an fairly impressive earbud on its own. While it might not be sonically an upgrade over ST-10, it is still nonetheless a really excellent earbuds. On the other hand, It does positively feel like the smallest earbud I ever tried, even feel smaller than PK shell in the ears.



I ordered the M1 today.  Thanks for the photo of it next to the ST-10


----------



## GREQ

Cheers to 3000 pages of buds!

Taking the sabia v6 on holiday to travel as light as possible was the easiest decision of all while packing my bags. 
This recent budget earbud Renaissance has dramatically changed my listening habits. 

Here's to 3000 more!


----------



## assassin10000

ClieOS said:


> So far, I think M1 sounds like a scaled down, 85% version of ST-10 with 60% of the price tag. It still has more or less the same neutral'ish tone to its sound signature, all the good things we have heard on the ST-10 but kinda more intimate with a slight hint of warmth. If not for ST-10 already setting a high bar, the M1 would have been an fairly impressive earbud on its own. While it might not be sonically an upgrade over ST-10, it is still nonetheless a really excellent earbuds. On the other hand, It does positively feel like the smallest earbud I ever tried, even feel smaller than PK shell in the ears.



Hmmm. I like the idea of it feeling smaller than a pk bud but not sure if I want only 85% of the SQ of the ST-10. That and smaller soundstage, I probably wouldn't mind the hint of warmth as I could EQ it out.


Plus I have earbuds I just made and haven't even listened to yet lol. And another set waiting to be made.


----------



## Mhog55

ClieOS said:


> 瑞友MC9D
> BGVP DX5
> K's Earphones 'Smurf' / 'Blue Elf' (蓝精灵)
> Smabat M1 Pro


Are the DX5 and M1 comfortable and stable enough to wear wire down?


----------



## Mhog55

Mhog55 said:


> Are the DX5 and M1 comfortable and stable enough to wear wire down?


Also - Is the separation and imaging on the M1 as good as the ST-10? Are you hearing any congestion or distortion in comparison?


----------



## ClieOS

assassin10000 said:


> Hmmm. I like the idea of it feeling smaller than a pk bud but not sure if I want only 85% of the SQ of the ST-10. That and smaller soundstage, I probably wouldn't mind the hint of warmth as I could EQ it out.
> ...



If it is 185% of the SQ of ST-10, I would think they will be smart enough to position / price it at 160% instead of 60%. Of course '85%' is really just a feeling, not an exact scientific measurement. Someone else could have felt that it is 75% or 95%, some might even find it to be better than ST-10.




Mhog55 said:


> Are the DX5 and M1 comfortable and stable enough to wear wire down?



Yes, but more so on the M1. In fact I don't think DX5 will be particular good for over-the-ear unless you have changed the cable, as the MMCX plug is a bit on the longer side. You will want an angled MMCX plug for that.



Mhog55 said:


> Also - Is the separation and imaging on the M1 as good as the ST-10? Are you hearing any congestion or distortion in comparison?



As good? No, but no congestion or distortion I can hear either.


----------



## assassin10000

ClieOS said:


> If it is 185% of the SQ of ST-10, I would think they will be smart enough to position / price it at 160% instead of 60%. Of course '85%' is really just a feeling, not an exact scientific measurement. Someone else could have felt that it is 75% or 95%, some might even find it to be better than ST-10.



Lol. I think you misread my 85 as 185.


Anyways, that is definitely true. Kind of on the fence about them. Currently doing some more work for my 2nd pair of diy buds.


----------



## exavolt (Sep 26, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> 瑞友MC9D
> BGVP DX5
> K's Earphones 'Smurf' / 'Blue Elf' (蓝精灵)
> Smabat M1 Pro


How's the DX5 compared to Smabats (ST-10 and M1)?

I am thinking to get either M1 or DX5.


----------



## dharmasteve

Any thoughts on sound quality of BGVP DX5?


----------



## chinerino

chinerino said:


> Hi recently my HE150PRO driver started to have static sounds which annoyed the crap out of me, just wanna know what are the options available now?
> 
> I really liked the open-backed design of HE150 Pro the spacious sound , that warmth with donut foams and naked clarity of it. May i know how to fix it? or I should buy other ear buds? I am a neutral head, I have portable dac amps available and my budget is prolly around 40USD
> currently thinking of
> ...


Bump


----------



## Spie1904

Having always used IEM's and headphones, the last week has been a refreshing experience. I've been spending my evenings / nights in total silence listening to Moonbuds Super Nightingale and must say I've been absolutely delighted with them. The small pk2 shells are more comfortable than most other IEM's I have at my disposal. While I wouldn't say the best my campfire Andromeda when it comes to sound quality, they offer a really balanced great sound and I enjoy the non fatiguing sound.


----------



## Chrisrd

B40s just showed up!!, testing them right now. Seem to be more power hungry that my Qian69. I'm liking theyr sound signature a lot, less shouty than the Quians and more bass.


----------



## jogawag (Sep 26, 2019)

chinerino said:


> Hi recently my HE150PRO driver started to have static sounds which annoyed the crap out of me, just wanna know what are the options available now?
> 
> I really liked the open-backed design of HE150 Pro the spacious sound , that warmth with donut foams and naked clarity of it. May i know how to fix it? or I should buy other ear buds? I am a neutral head, I have portable dac amps available and my budget is prolly around 40USD
> currently thinking of
> ...





chinerino said:


> Bump



I recommend to you yincrow RW-9. This earbuds are very neutral and clear, so you will like them.


----------



## twiceboss

Hey guys, sorry for being noob here. Im finding a set with around $50 that can be good for vocals, midrange, and highs technicalities. This is for easy listening session when i dont want to wear headphones or iem. Please give me some choices, im totally lost in earbuds game!


----------



## assassin10000

twiceboss said:


> Hey guys, sorry for being noob here. Im finding a set with around $50 that can be good for vocals, midrange, and highs technicalities. This is for easy listening session when i dont want to wear headphones or iem. Please give me some choices, im totally lost in earbuds game!



Excellent mids, Ourart ACG. 

If you don't need much bass, its very open face design allows the bass to leak. If you EQ or have a very good fit, then there is enough bass. Not recommended for hip hop/rap.


----------



## twiceboss

assassin10000 said:


> Excellent mids, Ourart ACG.
> 
> If you don't need much bass, its very open face design allows the bass to leak. If you EQ or have a very good fit, then there is enough bass. Not recommended for hip hop/rap.


exactly what im reading right now. Does it have great technicalities too in high freq? Yes, i dont really care much on lows as long as it doesnt sound tinny


----------



## assassin10000 (Sep 26, 2019)

twiceboss said:


> exactly what im reading right now. Does it have great technicalities too in high freq? Yes, i dont really care much on lows as long as it doesnt sound tinny



Not tinny at all. Good timbre and soundstage.

It's a mids/highs tuned bud, I don't have enough experience to really say how good the highs technicalities are. It's still one of my favorites. Good enough I bought a backup, when I don't like holding onto what I don't use.

If you have a test track with something to try and listen for that would help you determine if it is what you are looking for, let me know and I'll take a listen.


----------



## dharmasteve (Sep 26, 2019)

twiceboss said:


> Hey guys, sorry for being noob here. Im finding a set with around $50 that can be good for vocals, midrange, and highs technicalities. This is for easy listening session when i dont want to wear headphones or iem. Please give me some choices, im totally lost in earbuds game!



I agree with assassin10000. I've had the Ourart ACG for a couple of days and, although mine needs longer to burn in, I would say they are excellent for their price. Mids are particularly good. One thing I have noticed (I think) is that the Ourart van be equalised much better than an equivalent IEM. So highs on the Ourart ACG can be lifted and it doesn't seem to create fatiguing peaks. That's important to me because I like some sparkle in the treble. The highs though are still very nice without equalisation as well.


----------



## twiceboss

assassin10000 said:


> Not tinny at all. Good timbre and soundstage.
> 
> It's a mids/highs tuned bud, I don't have enough experience to really say how good the highs technicalities are. It's still one of my favorites. Good enough I bought a backup, when I don't like holding onto what I don't use.
> 
> If you have a test track with something to try and listen for that would help you determine if it is what you are looking for, let me know and I'll take a listen.


My daily playlist is KPower Vocals in spotify and my fav artist is IU. If u can play around with those tracks and determine how's the vocals and highs technicalities, it would be awesome


----------



## chinerino

jogawag said:


> I recommend to you yincrow RW-9. This earbuds are very neutral and clear, so you will like them.


compared to HE150Pro/RY4S 300ohm/B40/RY4S plus?


----------



## jogawag (Sep 26, 2019)

chinerino said:


> compared to HE150Pro/RY4S 300ohm/B40/RY4S plus?



I don't have RY4S 300ohm and RY4S plus, but I have RY4S and RY4S UE instead. I also have a B40. I had a HE150Pro but it was accidentally broken.

Below is my impression on each earbuds I have.

RY4S and RY4S UE have a clearly V-shaped, energetic sound.
B40 has a clear sound, a wide sound stage, and is suitable for various music genres.
HE150Pro has a sufficient sound stage, controlled treble and less bass.
Yincrow RW-9 is a little V-shaped but has a neutral and clear sound with excellent texture and detailed vocals, and a wide enough sound stage, making it suitable for various music genres.


----------



## twiceboss

sadly, it seems like ACG is not stock anymore? :/


----------



## jogawag (Sep 26, 2019)

twiceboss said:


> sadly, it seems like ACG is not stock anymore? :/



Please see the link below. It seems that ACG is still in stock.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32975201781.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32948975597.html


----------



## assassin10000

twiceboss said:


> sadly, it seems like ACG is not stock anymore? :/



Also here if you don't want to use their AE store.
https://penonaudio.com/ourart-acg.html


Just got home and I am taking a listen to that K-power vocal playlist. The ACG is excellent with it, thus far. Which I kind of expected, given one of my favorite genres is vocal trance (and acoustic versions as well).


----------



## assassin10000

@twiceboss 

The ACG excels at that genre and especially vocals. I spent the last couple hours listening to both the Kpower Vocals and the This is IU playlists.

I've been using the ST-10 as my daily buds but after using the ACG again, I'm swapping them.


----------



## twiceboss

assassin10000 said:


> @twiceboss
> 
> The ACG excels at that genre and especially vocals. I spent the last couple hours listening to both the Kpower Vocals and the This is IU playlists.
> 
> I've been using the ST-10 as my daily buds but after using the ACG again, I'm swapping them.


Thank you! would glad to find a set of that


----------



## twiceboss

is there anyone here selling his ACG?


----------



## chinerino

jogawag said:


> I don't have RY4S 300ohm and RY4S plus, but I have RY4S and RY4S UE instead. I also have a B40. I had a HE150Pro but it was accidentally broken.
> 
> Below is my impression on each earbuds I have.
> 
> ...


oooooo woah thanks dude!


----------



## Xamdou

https://penonaudio.com/ourart-qj21.html?search=Qj21


----------



## Pawelekdabek

I know earbuds are weak in bass teritory but maybe there is hidden gem with super strong bass and sub bass?


----------



## Jsingh4

Pawelekdabek said:


> I know earbuds are weak in bass teritory but maybe there is hidden gem with super strong bass and sub bass?


I think a design needs to created with less leakage in earbuds, that will be perfect


----------



## WillSound

Pawelekdabek said:


> I know earbuds are weak in bass teritory but maybe there is hidden gem with super strong bass and sub bass?


u need to try WillSound


----------



## mochill

WillSound said:


> u need to try WillSound


Which one


----------



## mochill

Pawelekdabek said:


> I know earbuds are weak in bass teritory but maybe there is hidden gem with super strong bass and sub bass?


You should try kube V1 v2 , BBB v1 v2 v2.5


----------



## WillSound

mochill said:


> Which one


WillSound MK32 for now


----------



## mochill

WillSound said:


> WillSound MK32 for now


Will it be better than the zen v1


----------



## HungryPanda

Willsound or NiceHCK ME-80


----------



## tnelmo

As usual, I'm late to the conversation, but with a recent AE purchase, I added the ($5 USD) Fengru Silver (TC200).  After 200+ hours of burn in, I'm extremely impressed with the bass in quality and quantity, compared to Monk+.  I don't have the expertise or young ears to distinguish from bass and sub bass.  Perhaps someone can comment on that.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 27, 2019)

tnelmo said:


> As usual, I'm late to the conversation, but with a recent AE purchase, I added the ($5 USD) Fengru Silver (TC200).  After 200+ hours of burn in, I'm extremely impressed with the bass in quality and quantity, compared to Monk+.  I don't have the expertise or young ears to distinguish from bass and sub bass.  Perhaps someone can comment on that.



You don't need young ears for that.  Sub bass is that really low rumble that you feel more than hear.

https://www.teachmeaudio.com/mixing/techniques/audio-spectrum/


----------



## robar (Sep 27, 2019)

I've received SR2 16ohms today. I hope you're right about burn in because after 2 hours of playtime it still sounds horrible  Cable is thin like hair and the finish of the shell is quite rough. Only the sound could save this purchase so far.


----------



## mbwilson111

robar said:


> I've received SR2 16ohms today. I hope you're right about burn in because after 2 hours of playtime it still sounds horrible  Cable is thin like hair and the finish of the shell is quite rough. Only the sound could save this purchase so far



Are you using the foams on them?


----------



## robar (Sep 27, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Are you using the foams on them?


Yes the full foam provided with the earbud. Right now it's midcentric with quite a bit of sibilance, muddy and without any real bass. I hope it will sound better tomorrow. 

By the way, I've also received a diy MX760 set which is excellent. At the moment I don't have any additional tuning on it, just the set plus a cable and trig rain foams. It is a very clean and detailed bud, lean and realistic but somewhat bright (somewhere between Qan69 and RY4S UE). Sounds like a smoother more linear, slightly thinner/brighter qian69. Bass is decent but not abundant, depth is similar to qian69 but with less punch/warmth. Soundstage is very nice too. Mids are clean, not messy like qian69, though a bit bright. The vocals are smooth and almost natural but a bit too thin, maybe some additional tuning would help. Highs are crystal clear but not overly bright (less extended than ry4s ue, slightly more than qian69). Excellent for prog rock like plini or vocal/acoustic/classical music in general.The shell is very small and comfortable, almost as comfy as qian39. Overall it has great potential especially for a 5usd small shell bud, though I feel the need to play with tuning foams a bit more to get the most out of it. For brightness lovers it's awesome already, I personally would like a bit more warmth/bass at this stage but it's still one of the better sounding buds I have at the moment
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32960995932.html


----------



## waynes world

Pawelekdabek said:


> I know earbuds are weak in bass teritory but maybe there is hidden gem with super strong bass and sub bass?





mochill said:


> You should try kube V1 v2 , BBB v1 v2 v2.5





WillSound said:


> WillSound MK32 for now





HungryPanda said:


> Willsound or NiceHCK ME-80



All great suggestions. Also I would throw in the Sabia V6 or V7 into the mix for great bass.


----------



## CesarBR

waynes world said:


> All great suggestions. Also I would throw in the Sabia V6 or V7 into the mix for great bass.


 +1 Sabia V6, nice bass indeed.


----------



## CesarBR

Any tips about how to improve earbuds fit?

I notice many of the buds I own do have good bass (as St10 and Masya for example) but are very fit dependent (at least in my case)... so I can enjoy them at home standing still but as soon as I start walking they change position and most of the seal is lost, resulting in light bass...

I thought of trying to use ear hooks or something like that... or maybe using double foams (which I never really tried)...
Any guidance?


----------



## jogawag (Sep 27, 2019)

CesarBR said:


> Any tips about how to improve earbuds fit?
> 
> I notice many of the buds I own do have good bass (as St10 and Masya for example) but are very fit dependent (at least in my case)... so I can enjoy them at home standing still but as soon as I start walking they change position and most of the seal is lost, resulting in light bass...
> 
> ...



You must try double foams (donuts foam on full foam) which way I really am adopting when I listen with St10 and Mojito.


----------



## Chris674

waynes world said:


> All great suggestions. Also I would throw in the Sabia V6 or V7 into the mix for great bass.


I asked a few days ago but maybe you can answer. Are there any huge differences between the Sabia V6 and V7. I was listening to my V6 the other day, and as you know, it is a great, fun experience. Wouldn't mind having another pair or "advancement" of that sound signature.


----------



## Pawelekdabek

waynes world said:


> All great suggestions. Also I would throw in the Sabia V6 or V7 into the mix for great bass.


Do you know where can i order it to Europe?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Pawelekdabek said:


> Do you know where can i order it to Europe?



Sabia 7 rholupat.com


----------



## waynes world

Chris674 said:


> I asked a few days ago but maybe you can answer. Are there any huge differences between the Sabia V6 and V7. I was listening to my V6 the other day, and as you know, it is a great, fun experience. Wouldn't mind having another pair or "advancement" of that sound signature.



I will provide my thoughts tomorrow. Do you have the V6 or V6 Pearl?


----------



## Chris674

waynes world said:


> I will provide my thoughts tomorrow. Do you have the V6 or V6 Pearl?


I have the V6 Pearl.


----------



## jogawag

Chris674 said:


> I have the V6 Pearl.


Please tell me which earbuds sound most like the Sabia V6 Pearl.


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> Yes, $59 for "old friends". Gulp!


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 28, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> Yincrow RW-1000: carbon fiber diaphragm with titanium coating, price around $155, ETA end of the month


What's going on? New premium matierial mmcx earbuds that don't cost you a kidney?

First that DSQM bud at $210 now this at $150. Before that we were heading into ludicrous territory with $500 high end earbuds.

Have these manufacturers realised the demand is too low on that price point and dropped it to a more resonable price range?

I bet sales profits are just outright better in the $100-200 range.


----------



## jogawag

seanc6441 said:


> What's going on? New premium matierial mmcx earbuds that don't cost you a kidney?
> 
> First that DSQM bud at $210 now this at $150. Before that we were heading into ludicrous territory with $500 high end earbuds.
> 
> ...



>> Before that we were heading into ludicrous territory with $500 high end earbuds.
We were? $500? No one  but you!


----------



## Willber

jogawag said:


> >> Before that we were heading into ludicrous territory with $500 high end earbuds.
> We were? $500? No one  but you!


With me it's more like $5.00


----------



## seanc6441

jogawag said:


> >> Before that we were heading into ludicrous territory with $500 high end earbuds.
> We were? $500? No one  but you!


Haha well not me anyway, most I paid was $200 for the Black Ling but the TOTL market with earbuds like Simphonio D3, K's Bell TI etc all closer to $500.


----------



## seanc6441

Willber said:


> With me it's more like $5.00


Give it time Willber, soon you'll be buying $20 earbuds


----------



## Willber

seanc6441 said:


> Give it time Willber, soon you'll be buying $20 earbuds


I've got a few of those, plus in-ears and over-ears up to $200, but my favourites are my cheapo buds. They just sound more enjoyable and 'right' to me. If I'd found that spending more provided more entertainment, I would have done that, but it hasn't been the case so far.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> I've got a few of those, plus in-ears and over-ears up to $200, but my favourites are my cheapo buds. They just sound more enjoyable and 'right' to me. If I'd found that spending more provided more entertainment, I would have done that, but it hasn't been the case so far.



I was enjoying a couple of albums this afternoon with a £4 bud that we found at Asda...lol.


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> I was enjoying a couple of albums this afternoon with a £4 bud that we found at Asda...lol.


Ooh, name names, there's an Asda near me!


----------



## HungryPanda

Willber said:


> Ooh, name names, there's an Asda near me!


 I bought 2, one silver, one black.


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> I bought 2, one silver, one black.


Dare I say they look kinda nice especially for £4.

How do they sound?


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> there's an Asda near me!





HungryPanda said:


> I bought 2, one silver, one black



...and he gave me the black one.  Tiny little things.. no foams..... sit well in... very secure.


----------



## HungryPanda

Actually I'm surprised at the sound, they have pretty decent drivers


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> Haha well not me anyway, most I paid was $200 for the Black Ling but the TOTL market with earbuds like Simphonio D3, K's Bell TI etc all closer to $500.



As I recalled, the most expensive one I have saw, beside K'a Poseidon, is a piezoelectric earbud over $600. There is rumor that another very expensive one is coming from Simphonio too. So all is not lost if you just want to spend big bucks...


----------



## Willber

Thanks, Panda family, I like the look of them.


----------



## Willber

Here they are - 'space grey' FTW!

https://groceries.asda.com/product/...pace-grey-earphones-mxtr88sg383/1000003249858

I'm going for a drive tomorrow...


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> Actually I'm surprised at the sound, they have pretty decent drivers


Win win then. They look comfortable. Something to take out and about maybe.

I like that grey cable. Reminds me of the earpods cable but it won't discolour so easily lol.



ClieOS said:


> As I recalled, the most expensive one I have saw, beside K'a Poseidon, is a piezoelectric earbud over $600. There is rumor that another very expensive one is coming from Simphonio too. So all is not lost if you just want to spend big bucks...


I'll stick to my diy mods thanks xD

But it's cool to see how many new models are being released. Infact as someone above said it's a bit daunting now that we have so much choice!


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> Thanks, Panda family, I like the look of them.



I found it on the MIXX Audio site.  It is called the MIXX Tribute and they have it priced at £12.   They have a few other colors like purple, blue and rose gold.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> Here they are - 'space grey' FTW!
> 
> https://groceries.asda.com/product/...pace-grey-earphones-mxtr88sg383/1000003249858
> 
> I'm going for a drive tomorrow...



We don't have a car.  We walk everywhere or take public transport.   Asda is a 15 minute walk.  

I wonder why they are so much cheaper at Asda.


----------



## Willber (Sep 28, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I found it on the MIXX Audio site.  It is called the MIXX Tribute and they have it priced at £12.   They have a few other colors like purple, blue and rose gold.


Yeah, I found them and posted a link. They are £12 on Amazon as well.

Edit: Sorry, cross-posted.


----------



## ClieOS

Here some of the final spec on K's Earphones 'Smurf' / 'Blue Elf', now officially known as Bell-Blue

15mm dynamic driver with uneven-thickness DLC (Diamond Like Carbon) coating diaphragm and N55 magnet, 32ohm.
16.1mm aluminum-magnesium alloy housing, CNC'ed and vacuum-electroplated.
FR: 5Hz ~ 45kHz
Distortion < 0.1% @ 1kHz
Sensitivity 107dB +/- 3%
Channel matching < 1.2dB
Copper-silver alloy coax cable with 2.5mm balanced plug + 3.5mm single-ended adapter.


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> I found it on the MIXX Audio site.  It is called the MIXX Tribute and they have it priced at £12.   They have a few other colors like purple, blue and rose gold.



You must have these


----------



## mbwilson111

groucho69 said:


> You must have these



Hey!  Earbuds only in this thread!


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> Hey!  Earbuds only in this thread!



But purple!


----------



## mbwilson111

groucho69 said:


> But purple!



I don't like that shade of purple.  I like a nice royal purple... like my purple Monk... that is not really a Monk anymore because a driver died during the recabling process.  So now it is my Mystery Monk. I do still have another spare stock purple Monk+.

That is a recabled Coffee Monk+ above it... with proper Monk+ drivers.


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> I don't like that shade of purple.  I like a nice royal purple... like my purple Monk... that is not really a Monk anymore because a driver died during the recabling process.  So now it is my Mystery Monk. I do still have another spare stock purple Monk+.
> 
> That is a recabled Coffee Monk+ above it... with proper Monk+ drivers.



Well then I'm not getting one


----------



## mbwilson111

groucho69 said:


> Well then I'm not getting one



Well maybe you should... and then do a full review in another thread.  Thought you gave up IEMs though.  Buds are Best.  I have IEMs that I do love... but Buds ARE BEST!


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> Well maybe you should... and then do a full review in another thread.  Thought you gave up IEMs though.  Buds are Best.  I have IEMs that I do love... but Buds ARE BEST!



IEMs were the last that I tried and sadly my right ear is still protesting. Cans and buds only for me.


----------



## ounwx

Can anyone comment on the ME80's volume level compared to any other popular buds?

Also, any descriptions of sound signature differences between ME80 and Fengru Silver?


----------



## Jsingh4

SO who is the TOTL earbud star of this month?


----------



## dharmasteve

Hi guys
Antone have the BGVP DX5 yet? What's it's sound characteristics?  How does it compare to other Buds?


----------



## Infoseeker

Does nobody have a Simphonio dragon 2+ to compare to the current discussed models?

Wondering if anything cheaper has caught up.


----------



## snowmind

After weeks of burning, how is your B40 sound now? Has there been any change?


----------



## cqtek (Oct 7, 2019)

BGVP DX5, clarity power, balanced, without a lot of bass, very, very detailed, comfortable and smaller than expected, fantastic cable. In the search for the sound that produces balanced IEMS.


 

Edit: After burning and some adjustments, to increase the diameter of the earbuds, the bass has appeared. Now it has a sound signature more similar to what the curve shows, maintaining the great level of detail.


----------



## seanc6441

cqtek said:


> BGVP DX5, clarity power, balanced, without a lot of bass, very, very detailed, comfortable and smaller than expected, fantastic cable. In the search for the sound that produces balanced IEMS.


Without a lot of bass you say?


----------



## cqtek (Sep 30, 2019)

I've only been with them for half an hour... I hope the bass hit something else... I'm a lover of the lower zone. But these earbuds have already proven to be a wonder. They have more bass than the Ourart ACG and Ti7, and a better balance in all the bands. It is very important their comfort, size and fit for all this to come together.  I don't think the photo you've put in does justice to it at all. I haven't been so excited about an earbud in a long time.





As you can see, they are very similar to the Ourart Ti7, but with a much better fit, offering all the potential that those could not give, due to their chubby shape. I always defended the low zone of the Ourart, that because of the adjustment never could leave. Here, the bass stick out a little more.


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 30, 2019)

cqtek said:


> I've only been with them for half an hour... I hope the bass hit something else... I'm a lover of the lower zone. But these earbuds have already proven to be a wonder. They have more bass than the Ourart ACG and Ti7, and a better balance in all the bands. It is very important their comfort, size and fit for all this to come together.  I don't think the photo you've put in does justice to it at all. I haven't been so excited about an earbud in a long time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry to say but your measurements don't really seem to reflect the what you describe as you say the dx5 has more bass than the ti7 yet the graph shows equal or slightly less bass (if we are to level them at 1khz). Seems measurements don't really show the true sound for earbuds or at least don't consistently portray what we hear.

Anyways my picture was a bit of a joke, since I'm always going on about bass response 

If it sounds like the TI7 bass wise its bass light for sure, but I still love the ti7 for it's midrange. But i've yet to hear another bass light earbud I'd enjoy other than the ti7 because most of them are just average or good in the mids, the TI7 is better than most TOTL earbuds in the mids not just for detail but for it's tonality and imaging. Although I never felt the TI7 extended particularly low even when trying press them to my ears it's bass was always moderate or light depending on if you pressed them to your ears or not. Maybe for bigger ears the TI7 will produce a better seal, my ears are probably too small to benefit from that.

Edit: Ok I'm understanding it now that you say the bass is more pronounced on the dx5 due to better fit? But doesn't your measurement rig also pick up this better fit and thus show more low end?


----------



## cqtek

seanc6441 said:


> Sorry to say but your measurements don't really seem to reflect the what you describe as you say the dx5 has more bass than the ti7 yet the graph shows equal or slightly less bass (if we are to level them at 1khz). Seems measurements don't really show the true sound for earbuds or at least don't consistently portray what we hear.
> 
> Anyways my picture was a bit of a joke, since I'm always going on about bass response
> 
> ...



First, don't worry, I know you're joking.

Second, yes, I think the bass depends on the type of capsule and, of course, the fit. But in this case and also with the Ourart Ti7, the type of driver also has a lot to do, and both are similar, but my opinion is that the DX5 is even better. It's an initial idea based on memories.

On the other hand, referencing the graphics to 1kHz I don't like, should we pretend that all headphones have the same gain at that frequency? I find it unreal. My graphs are always taken at the same volume, it gives an idea of which headphones sound louder or not...but earbuds don't sound like the graphs, that's for sure.


----------



## dharmasteve

cqtek said:


> First, don't worry, I know you're joking.
> 
> Second, yes, I think the bass depends on the type of capsule and, of course, the fit. But in this case and also with the Ourart Ti7, the type of driver also has a lot to do, and both are similar, but my opinion is that the DX5 is even better. It's an initial idea based on memories.
> 
> On the other hand, referencing the graphics to 1kHz I don't like, should we pretend that all headphones have the same gain at that frequency? I find it unreal. My graphs are always taken at the same volume, it gives an idea of which headphones sound louder or not...but earbuds don't sound like the graphs, that's for sure.



How do the DX5's match up to the Ourart ACG? For me it took a couple of days for the ACG bass to open a little. It sounds like you are enjoying the DX5.


----------



## Mhog55

cqtek said:


> BGVP DX5, clarity power, balanced, without a lot of bass, very, very detailed, comfortable and smaller than expected, fantastic cable. In the search for the sound that produces balanced IEMS.


Nice. I look forward to getting these.


----------



## Mhog55

Somebody is going to have to explain what young and rigid sounds are?


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 30, 2019)

Hmm it's going to take some convincing that anything is better than the TI7 mids. Sure there are sweeter mids, maybe warmer, and more energetic.

But the refinement and realism of vocals on the TI7 and its imaging is just outstanding.

I do usually like the slightly warmer but sweet midrange presentation of say the Penon BS1, Shozy Cygnus and the king of them all a liberated Ks Ling driver which has some beautiful vocal quality, smooth but detailed and while not exactly neutral it's slightly warmth and slight emphasis around 1-2khz is really nice to make vocals shine. Yet I acknowledge the TI7 is more technically accurate. But the neutral, accurate but FULL presentation of the TI7 is just amazing too. Without being recessed and thus boring like some other buds can be.

Most earbuds I've heard described as neutral in the mids have a distinct lack of full tonality in the lower mids area which effects the forwardness and body of the vocals. The TI7 does not. Yet somehow there's not even a trace of too much warmth or veil and the texture and detail is all there.

I've never heard a HD600 the supposed neutrality midrange legend or it's slightly warmer bro the HD650. But when I think of a good headphone-like presentation in the mids the TI7 is the first that comes to mind.

Which makes the new flagship Ourart bud very interesting... Can it retain the TI7 mids and add extension on both ends. Will it be more detailed?

The shape is an improvement but that's just a first step in my opinion. It needs to combine the ourart mids with solid impactful bass and possibly the treble of the ACG (which I have not heard).


----------



## Mhog55

seanc6441 said:


> Hmm it's going to take some convincing that anything is better than the TI7 mids. Sure there are sweeter mids, maybe warmer, and more energetic.
> 
> But the refinement and realism of vocals on the TI7 and its imaging is just outstanding.
> 
> ...


So are the mids better on the Ti7 or ACG? In the description, the ACG has better resolution and transients, with a larger sound field. I'm assuming sound field relates to Soundstage.


----------



## ValSilva

seanc6441 said:


> I'm always going on about bass response



You're "all about that bass,
'Bout that bass, no treble"


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 30, 2019)

Mhog55 said:


> So are the mids better on the Ti7 or ACG? In the description, the ACG has better resolution and transients, with a larger sound field. I'm assuming sound field relates to Soundstage.


I don't know, the ACG by most descriptions has more emphasised treble (an area that was a bit dark on the TI7). Some of the charm of the TI7 was that it was never bright or fatiguing yet was not warm and had good detail. So maybe you'll prefer the TI7 if you like a neutral-dark sound or the ACG if you want something with more treble. I don't think either has a lot of bass extension or quantity under 100hz. I'd have to hear the ACG to know for sure how it compares to the TI7 though.

I found the TI7 to sound a bit too dark with full foams, but lacking any low end with thin foams. So maybe multi hole or donut foams would work best. I was using EQ to bump the treble and bass on the TI7 in a general V shape to balance out its sound, i didn't dare touch the mids though.

I guess the ACG would play better with full or donut foams but I'm not 100% confident the mids have not been changed by the retuning and new driver.

Resolution and transients are just marketing possibly... I mean unless you actually go measure less distortion and other tests its tough to make those claims. Maybe the thinner driver does perform better though. Most likely the increased treble can be perceived as more resolution in the highs since it would be more balanced overall.


----------



## robar (Sep 30, 2019)

Guys, is it possible to burn in something in the wrong way, or am I impatient? I have at least 40hours of playtime in my SR2 and it still sounds bad without any real improvement, I mean incredibly shallow bass and echoey mids that sound like water stuck into my ears. For the first 15-20 hours I gave it random flac music and since then I've been feeding it my spotify playlist (listening volume, best quality). I know it's supposed to be 100hrs but I'm getting concerned about the lack of substantial improvement. Am I supposed to give it pink noise or crank up the volume? Maybe it was too low volume to give it a proper burn?


----------



## seanc6441 (Sep 30, 2019)

robar said:


> Guys, is it possible to burn in something in the wrong way, or am I impatient? I have at least 40hours of playtime in my SR2 and it still sounds bad without any real improvement, I mean incredibly shallow bass and echoey mids that sound like water stuck into my ears. For the first 15-20 hours I gave it random flac music and since then I've been feeding it my spotify playlist (listening volume, best quality). I know it's supposed to be 100hrs but I'm getting concerned about the lack of substantial improvement. Am I supposed to give it pink noise or crank up the volume?


Don't wanna be the bearer of bad news but it's possible you got a 'lemon' or bad unit. I bought 3 sr2's and the first one I bought sounded pretty bad. Lacking clarity and sounding very dull on both ends. I had another arrive with that pack which sounded fair, but after burn in it sounded good, that's why i was surprised that the burn in actually does have a meaningful impact on this earbud. As did the third one, fair but good after burn in.

I'm guessing these drivers are cheap so there may be some inconsistency in the manufacturing.

The other possibility (a more likely situation actually) is that when chitty store assembled this diy earbud, he/she didn't apply the tuning foam right, or some glue dropped into the driver venting possibly, or the shell isn't sealing correctly. Anything like that would really mess up the sound too.

Remember these are 8$ cheap diy buds, most sound much better than 8$ but some may have flaws.

You could get onto chitty store or aliexpress dispute and ask for a replacement. I think i made a deal once with a store to replace my broken RY4s by buying another earbud or two from them and have them ship me a replacement r4ys for free. Then everybody is happy. Just a suggestion.


----------



## seanc6441

robar said:


> Guys, is it possible to burn in something in the wrong way, or am I impatient? I have at least 40hours of playtime in my SR2 and it still sounds bad without any real improvement, I mean incredibly shallow bass and echoey mids that sound like water stuck into my ears. For the first 15-20 hours I gave it random flac music and since then I've been feeding it my spotify playlist (listening volume, best quality). I know it's supposed to be 100hrs but I'm getting concerned about the lack of substantial improvement. Am I supposed to give it pink noise or crank up the volume? Maybe it was too low volume to give it a proper burn?


Sorry just to add, although I think you have a defective or flawed unit. It's possible yours is just taking longer to burn in (doubtful tbh) so maybe try 50 hours?

Mine sounded better around 10-20 hours than it did stock. This was the 2nd and 3rd one. The first never got better, sounded really poor until i accidentally broken it trying to open it, the 2nd and 3rd i was more careful with lol.


----------



## robar (Sep 30, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> Sorry just to add, although I think you have a defective or flawed unit. It's possible yours is just taking longer to burn in (doubtful tbh) so maybe try 50 hours?
> 
> Mine sounded better around 10-20 hours than it did stock. This was the 2nd and 3rd one. The first never got better, sounded really poor until i accidentally broken it trying to open it, the 2nd and 3rd i was more careful with lol.


Oh, okay, that's a possibility too sadly, though I don't know how to prove that to chitty in that case. I'll definitely wait for a few more days, but it does sound like a lemon I'm afraid. I paid 12usd for this and basically a 1.5usd vido sounds like a high end gear compared to this at the moment. (my second highest earbud purchase to date - the priciest was Rosemary which sounds underwhelming too on my sources, frankly I only had successes with sub 10$ earbuds so far)


----------



## dharmasteve

robar said:


> Oh, okay, that's a possibility too sadly, though I don't know how to prove that to chitty in that case. I'll definitely wait for a few more days, but it does sound like a lemon I'm afraid. I paid 12usd for this and basically a 1.5usd vido sounds like a high end gear compared to this at the moment. (my second highest earbud purchase to date - the priciest was Rosemary which sounds underwhelming too on my sources, frankly I only had successes with sub 10$ earbuds so far)


Maybe get the nicehck B40 for about $10. If you get a good one it is brilliant.


----------



## robar (Sep 30, 2019)

dharmasteve said:


> Maybe get the nicehck B40 for about $10. If you get a good one it is brilliant.


I ordered one back in august for 8usd, it will arrive this week probably so can't wait to test it finally. That's my only hope at the moment  (besides my ongoing diy projects)


----------



## mochill

robar said:


> I ordered one back in august for 8usd, it will arrive this week probably so can't wait to test it finally. That's my only hope at the moment  (besides my ongoing diy projects)


I should be getting one soon


----------



## jogawag (Oct 1, 2019)

robar said:


> I ordered one back in august for 8usd, it will arrive this week probably so can't wait to test it finally. That's my only hope at the moment  (besides my ongoing diy projects)


Please wait at least 60 hours to burn-in SR2.
I burned in 4 SR2s, but the sound changed dramatically during the 60 hours of each of the 4 SR2.
However, as @seanc6441 shows, the unit may be out of order, but please try to burn-in for 60 hours.
If that doesn't help, you need to adopt the aliexpress dispute as @seanc6441 shows ...

The nicehck B40 doesn't need to be burned in, so it's certainly a hope.


----------



## antdroid

I just sorta blind bought the Moondrop Chaconne ear bud after not really being in the ear bud game for well over a year (maybe over 2) now. I really hope I didn't make a mistake.


----------



## waynes world

robar said:


> Oh, okay, that's a possibility too sadly, though I don't know how to prove that to chitty in that case. I'll definitely wait for a few more days, but it does sound like a lemon I'm afraid. I paid 12usd for this and basically a 1.5usd vido sounds like a high end gear compared to this at the moment. (my second highest earbud purchase to date - the priciest was Rosemary which sounds underwhelming too on my sources, frankly I only had successes with sub 10$ earbuds so far)



It sounds like a lot of different stories with the sr2's. I was sure yours were lemons until I read them, because mine sounded great to me out of the box.


----------



## 40760

Found another seller on eBay with black Kube V1 in stock. Couldn't help but ordered 2 pairs...


----------



## mbwilson111

robar said:


> Guys, is it possible to burn in something in the wrong way, or am I impatient? I have at least 40hours of playtime in my SR2 and it still sounds bad without any real improvement, I mean incredibly shallow bass and echoey mids that sound like water stuck into my ears. For the first 15-20 hours I gave it random flac music and since then I've been feeding it my spotify playlist (listening volume, best quality). I know it's supposed to be 100hrs but I'm getting concerned about the lack of substantial improvement. Am I supposed to give it pink noise or crank up the volume? Maybe it was too low volume to give it a proper burn?



Have you checked to make sure it is in phase?  What you said about the mids makes me think it could be out of phase.


----------



## robar

mbwilson111 said:


> Have you checked to make sure it is in phase?  What you said about the mids makes me think it could be out of phase.


Yes I checked yesterday, sadly it's perfect in that sense. :/ Another 10 hours passed and it still sounds like a small cheapo bluetooth speaker - only weird mids nothing else. I'm 99% sure it's a lemon, actually sounds a bit like one of my vido drivers which fell apart in a diy project and after I reassembled it only mids survived the accident.


----------



## 40760

robar said:


> Yes I checked yesterday, sadly it's perfect in that sense. :/ Another 10 hours passed and it still sounds like a small cheapo bluetooth speaker - only weird mids nothing else. I'm 99% sure it's a lemon, actually sounds a bit like one of my vido drivers which fell apart in a diy project and after I reassembled it only mids survived the accident.


 
Try sucking on the drivers? Give it a shot... suck on it till you hear a crinkle...


----------



## Chris674

robar said:


> Oh, okay, that's a possibility too sadly, though I don't know how to prove that to chitty in that case. I'll definitely wait for a few more days, but it does sound like a lemon I'm afraid. I paid 12usd for this and basically a 1.5usd vido sounds like a high end gear compared to this at the moment. (my second highest earbud purchase to date - the priciest was Rosemary which sounds underwhelming too on my sources, frankly I only had successes with sub 10$ earbuds so far)


The Rosemary is my most difficult bud to make sound good. Most of my sources can make it loud enough but it sounds terribly muddy and the high end roll off is excessive. When I plug into my Schitt Magni 3 it starts to really shine. It's possible that it's amp coloration but everything opens up and it becomes a really warm, pleasing sound signature.


----------



## robar

Chris674 said:


> The Rosemary is my most difficult bud to make sound good. Most of my sources can make it loud enough but it sounds terribly muddy and the high end roll off is excessive. When I plug into my Schitt Magni 3 it starts to really shine. It's possible that it's amp coloration but everything opens up and it becomes a really warm, pleasing sound signature.


So I'm not alone with the Rosemary then! I don't have a dedicated amp but the volume level is perfect with my sources, however the sound is underwhelming. I wouldn't say it's muddy, but the bass and highs are really weak and dull plus lack extension. It's just a soft, boring, midcentric sound. I don't know if it means anything, but I have the transparent version. I'm still not sure if this is how it should work or a QC issue again. This is the reason why I don't buy anything with high ohms, I just can't predict anymore what my gear can handle. (Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 gen 1, SMSL x4, + regular stuff like android phone etc)


----------



## robar

palestofwhite said:


> Try sucking on the drivers? Give it a shot... suck on it till you hear a crinkle...


Oh, you mean by mouth? :O I personally wouldn't touch that thing with glue residue and stuff. But I did write to Chitty about the issue, I hope we can work something out. I'm willing to open it up and repair it following his instructions or I'd be fine with replacement drivers too.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 2, 2019)

Chris674 said:


> The Rosemary is my most difficult bud to make sound good. Most of my sources can make it loud enough but it sounds terribly muddy and the high end roll off is excessive. When I plug into my Schitt Magni 3 it starts to really shine. It's possible that it's amp coloration but everything opens up and it becomes a really warm, pleasing sound signature.



High impedance earbuds or headphones are meant to be used with amps or with DAPs that have good power output.  Volume is not the whole story.  It may be loud enough but that alone does not mean it is being properly driven.

edit: now you have made me want to get out my Rosemary for a listening session.  I do have several sources that provide enough power.


----------



## robar (Oct 1, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Hi impedance earbuds or headphones are meant to be used with amps or with DAPs that have good power output.  Volume is not the whole story.  It may be loud enough but that alone does not mean it is being properly driven.
> 
> edit: now you have made me want to get out my Rosemary for a listening session.  I do have several sources that provide enough power.


You must be right, I thought my gear could handle it but apparently they're not powerful enough. I've just taken out Rosemary for a quick listen. The mids are excellent and the bass quantity is there, but lacks depth/clarity and the highs are very very muffled. I definitely think it should sound really nice if a more powerful source solves these issues. I'll definitely consider buying an amp in the future but for a single 15usd earbud it just doesn't worth it for me. By the way, what kind of amps do you recommend for gears like Rosemary?


----------



## mbwilson111

robar said:


> You must be right, I thought my gear could handle it but apparently they're not powerful enough. I've just taken out Rosemary for a quick listen. The mids are excellent and the bass quantity is there, but lacks depth/clarity and the highs are very muffled. I definitely think it should sound really nice if a more powerful source solves these issues. I'll definitely consider buying an amp in the future but for a single 15usd earbud it just doesn't worth it for me. By the way, what kind of amps do you recommend for gears like Rosemary?



There are many portable amps that can be used with a smartphone if that is what you are using for your music.  Others can advise you on that.

I have never listened to music with a smartphone... in fact, I choose to not even own a smartphone.  With high impedance buds I have certain daps that power them well... my Opus #1,  Cayin N3, Hidizs AP200,  Zishan DSD are all good.  There are many good daps.  

For you I would recommend getting an inexpensive portable amp... maybe a Topping or a Fiio.  As i said others can advise you on this because I have not been using my portable amps recently.

At my PC I have a good dac amp for when I want to play music while sitting at my computer.  

Anyway, for now I would suggest you stick with buds that are 32ohm and below.  Even the Monk+ at 64 ohms likes a bit of power which might be why some people criticize it.


----------



## robar

mbwilson111 said:


> There are many portable amps that can be used with a smartphone if that is what you are using for your music.  Others can advise you on that.
> 
> I have never listened to music with a smartphone... in fact, I choose to not even own a smartphone.  With high impedance buds I have certain daps that power them well... my Opus #1,  Cayin N3, Hidizs AP200,  Zishan DSD are all good.  There are many good daps.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the suggestions  I mainly use my desktop or laptop for quality music listening (my smartphone can run my SMSL X4 dac as well) so size is not necessarily an issue. An external power plug would be another thing, but I'd be fine with a desktop only amp if its really good for the price. I just checked the SMSL X4's page and the impedance support got corrected since I bought it, before it was stated around 150-300ohm but now the specs say only 64ohms… thanks SMSL


----------



## Jsingh4

So guys I have never owned high impedence buds, my question is how much difference is there in the sound comparing with a low impedance bud.
Also I am thinking of getting one, a TOTL high impedence bud.
Kindly suggest the very best, also not very expensive


----------



## Chris674

robar said:


> You must be right, I thought my gear could handle it but apparently they're not powerful enough. I've just taken out Rosemary for a quick listen. The mids are excellent and the bass quantity is there, but lacks depth/clarity and the highs are very very muffled. I definitely think it should sound really nice if a more powerful source solves these issues. I'll definitely consider buying an amp in the future but for a single 15usd earbud it just doesn't worth it for me. By the way, what kind of amps do you recommend for gears like Rosemary?


I've been revisiting my Faaeal's recently and I've found that I do not like the sound of foams on them. The Snow Lotus 1.0 and 1.0+ naked is the way I'm currently listening. Actually on the 1.0 I put the VE wings on for a better seal. I'm going to try my Rosemary without foams when I get home tonight.


----------



## seanc6441

Chris674 said:


> I've been revisiting my Faaeal's recently and I've found that I do not like the sound of foams on them. The Snow Lotus 1.0 and 1.0+ naked is the way I'm currently listening. Actually on the 1.0 I put the VE wings on for a better seal. I'm going to try my Rosemary without foams when I get home tonight.


Surprised you can use the SL 1.0+ without foams. It's quiet emphasised in the treble area.

I found even with full foams it lacked bass depth but the treble was still present and well extended. Wasn't my favourite bud with full foams but I wouldn't enjoy it foamless for sure.


----------



## robar

Chris674 said:


> I've been revisiting my Faaeal's recently and I've found that I do not like the sound of foams on them. The Snow Lotus 1.0 and 1.0+ naked is the way I'm currently listening. Actually on the 1.0 I put the VE wings on for a better seal. I'm going to try my Rosemary without foams when I get home tonight.


You could try donut/custom punched foams as well. I actually prefer donuts with most of my buds. Also the foams bundled with Rosemary are not optimal for me with mx500 shells, too small and thin for proper seal but too dense for transparent sound. They should be fine with small shells but for mx500 I prefer trig rain donuts most of the time.


----------



## citral23 (Oct 1, 2019)

Meh, finally got my EBX and I'm disappointed so far, compared to the raving reviews.

Yes, the bass is extremely controlled and precise. Yes, it has immense clarity. But jeez, is it fatiguing.

It's bearable with double foams, but still had to go back to my 20€ BK2 after a few hours, couldn't take the screaming saxophone anymore.

BK2 has less precise bass, but adequate quantity, while EBX is clearly lacking in that department, which doesn't help either with the overly forward mids.

Either most reviewers are deaf and have no idea about balance, timbre (oh the **** good reviews, lol) or I'm more sensitive than most, idk


----------



## HungryPanda

Just received the Pizen KP110 today and am impressed, way out class my Ourart T17's


----------



## cqtek

HungryPanda said:


> Just received the Pizen KP110 today and am impressed, way out class my Ourart T17's



Eyyy!!! Those are big words. We want pictures, please.


----------



## mochill

Listening to the BBB V2.5 finally it's definitely more powerful bass versus the V2


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## Mhog55

HungryPanda said:


>


Interesting design.


----------



## cqtek

seanc6441 said:


> I don't know, the ACG by most descriptions has more emphasised treble (an area that was a bit dark on the TI7). Some of the charm of the TI7 was that it was never bright or fatiguing yet was not warm and had good detail. So maybe you'll prefer the TI7 if you like a neutral-dark sound or the ACG if you want something with more treble. I don't think either has a lot of bass extension or quantity under 100hz. I'd have to hear the ACG to know for sure how it compares to the TI7 though.
> 
> I found the TI7 to sound a bit too dark with full foams, but lacking any low end with thin foams. So maybe multi hole or donut foams would work best. I was using EQ to bump the treble and bass on the TI7 in a general V shape to balance out its sound, i didn't dare touch the mids though.
> 
> ...



Your description of Ti7 vs ACG is very accurate. So it is when you talk about darkness or foams. I own both and it's really like you say, both in the Ti7 mids and in the high ACG zone. The bass is almost the same. In order to acquire the ACG it is necessary to have clear that its major emphasis is placed in the mids and highs.

For anyone who wants to read my humble opinion, about the ACG vs Ti7, here I left a small comparison:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ourart-acg.23536/reviews#review-22119


----------



## cqtek

HungryPanda said:


>



Thanks for the picture. Every day they bring to the market stranger forms. It doesn't matter, as long as they are comfortable and sound good. What do you say about comfort?


----------



## HungryPanda

More comfortable than than the pictures show, cable is very nice and fits well


----------



## Mhog55

cqtek said:


> Your description of Ti7 vs ACG is very accurate. So it is when you talk about darkness or foams. I own both and it's really like you say, both in the Ti7 mids and in the high ACG zone. The bass is almost the same. In order to acquire the ACG it is necessary to have clear that its major emphasis is placed in the mids and highs.
> 
> For anyone who wants to read my humble opinion, about the ACG vs Ti7, here I left a small comparison:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ourart-acg.23536/reviews#review-22119


So I take it you prefer the Ti7? Just how bright is the ACG? From your comparison, I think I would go with the Ti7.


----------



## dharmasteve (Oct 1, 2019)

cqtek said:


> Your description of Ti7 vs ACG is very accurate. So it is when you talk about darkness or foams. I own both and it's really like you say, both in the Ti7 mids and in the high ACG zone. The bass is almost the same. In order to acquire the ACG it is necessary to have clear that its major emphasis is placed in the mids and highs.
> 
> For anyone who wants to read my humble opinion, about the ACG vs Ti7, here I left a small comparison:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ourart-acg.23536/reviews#review-22119



With a full foam, as opposed to the supplied donuts, I find I am lucky and do get a really good seal with the Ourart ACG. So for me they have good bass which has extended over a little time. The treble unusually has some pleasant sparkle which I tend to even raise a little as it is non-fatiguing using a NICEHCK 16 core copper, silver, mmcx  cable . They are way better than most of my IEMs.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 1, 2019)

citral23 said:


> Meh, finally got my EBX and I'm disappointed so far, compared to the raving reviews.
> 
> Yes, the bass is extremely controlled and precise. Yes, it has immense clarity. But jeez, is it fatiguing.
> 
> ...





citral23 said:


> Meh, finally got my EBX and I'm disappointed so far, compared to the raving reviews.
> 
> Yes, the bass is extremely controlled and precise. Yes, it has immense clarity. But jeez, is it fatiguing.
> 
> ...


Not a fan of overly bright sounding earbuds either. You really have to read between the lines when looking at reviews. Any earbuds decribed as 'super clear' or 'extremely detailed' are usually bright tuned. Especially if the bass and low mids are subdued which is the case a lot of the time.

I draw the line at stuff like the penon bs1 official which has a slight bump around 3-5khz but doesn't recessed the low mids and has enough bass quantity to balance the sound out. But that's with just a single full foam which gives it a warm smooth balance. If an earbud needs double foams just to avoid harsh treble I'd say the tuning is not ideal...

Too dark doesn't do it for me either, but that's the lesser of two evils and I can tolerate a dark earbud and even enjoy it sometimes.

If its bright and lean its not for me!


----------



## citral23 (Oct 1, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> Not a fan of overly bright sounding earbuds either. You really have to read between the lines when looking at reviews. Any earbuds decribed as 'super clear' or 'extremely detailed' are usually bright tuned. Especially if the bass and low mids are subdued which is the case a lot of the time.
> 
> I draw the line at stuff like the penon bs1 official which has a slight bump around 3-5khz but doesn't recessed the low mids and has enough bass quantity to balance the sound out. But that's with just a single full foam which gives it a warm smooth balance. If an earbud needs double foams just to avoid harsh treble I'd say the tuning is not ideal...
> 
> ...



Very useful tips, yes indeed next time I see even a single review mentioning that it "could be very slightly bright for a few over-sensitive people" I'll know it's a strong pass 

I'm not a fan of too dark either, but would take it any day over bright, forward. I begin to "see" that what I should be looking for in reviews is "effortless" as it seems to suit my preference.

Hurts a bit at 77€, wouldn't have cared too much at 20 but c'est la vie.

I wonder if there are Harman tuned earbuds out there, as it's by far my preferred tuning for iems.

(Also note for self, 4th ***yoo product that I find absolutely perfect for the price, 8 core, 6 core, BK2, V2 rev3; while it's the second nicehck product that I find is overrated and sucks, 16 core and EBX, here on EBX the finition is atrocious, lots of dings on the shells, should just stay away from some brands)


----------



## robar (Oct 1, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> Not a fan of overly bright sounding earbuds either. You really have to read between the lines when looking at reviews. Any earbuds decribed as 'super clear' or 'extremely detailed' are usually bright tuned. Especially if the bass and low mids are subdued which is the case a lot of the time.
> 
> I draw the line at stuff like the penon bs1 official which has a slight bump around 3-5khz but doesn't recessed the low mids and has enough bass quantity to balance the sound out. But that's with just a single full foam which gives it a warm smooth balance. If an earbud needs double foams just to avoid harsh treble I'd say the tuning is not ideal...
> 
> ...


Where would you put RY4S UE on the brightness scale personally? I find it very bright, depending on the source almost at the edge of tolerable. I wouldn't use it for long term but I respect it for its wide frequency coverage and high fidelity for the price. I use it as a reference point for comparison (at least until b40 arrives) along with my Takstar pro80 (which is slightly darker more v shaped), this is the main reason I'm interested. I'm especially torn between the 8-10k range brightness vs darkness, I mean which is actually more natural or enjoyable. I also noticed that a lot of people including myself tend to use the term brightness in different contexts. For example bright mids could mean an emphasis on the upper range, bright highs could mean excessive power above 7-8k or simply a bright earbud could even mean a bass light signature with perfectly fine mids and highs.


----------



## Chris674

seanc6441 said:


> Surprised you can use the SL 1.0+ without foams. It's quiet emphasised in the treble area.
> 
> I found even with full foams it lacked bass depth but the treble was still present and well extended. Wasn't my favourite bud with full foams but I wouldn't enjoy it foamless for sure.


I agree that they are very treble heavy. The bass was what made me start experimenting with foams. Full foams made it very dull sounding and donuts made the bass very bloated and just impossible to enjoy. I have quite a few earbuds that are neutral and a few that are bassy...so I made this one my treble "sparkly" set. The bass issue is really not solvable in my opinion. Naked, the bass is non existent but with the VE wings there's at least a little better seal and a tiny pop in the bass right around the top end of a bass drum. I've heard some amazing imaging things (anomalies?) with this pair of buds that I've never heard with any other set so they'll always have a place in my rotation but they definitely couldn't be my only pair.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 1, 2019)

robar said:


> Where would you put RY4S UE on the brightness scale personally? I find it very bright, depending on the source almost at the edge of tolerable. I wouldn't use it for long term but I respect it for its wide frequency coverage and high fidelity for the price. I use it as a reference point for comparison (at least until b40 arrives) along with my Takstar pro80 (which is slightly darker more v shaped), this is the main reason I'm interested. I'm especially torn between the 8-10k range brightness vs darkness, I mean which is actually more natural or enjoyable. I also noticed that a lot of people including myself tend to use the term brightness in different contexts. For example bright mids could mean an emphasis on the upper range, bright highs could mean excessive power above 7-8k or simply a bright earbud could even mean a bass light signature with perfectly fine mids and highs.


True I think its better to talk in terms of general frequency range if possible and use the most basic wording you can so there can be a universal understanding of what you're trying to describe. The RY4S as I hear it has a few issues which make it hard to listen to on poorly mastered tracks or just in general for longer sessions.

- The mids around 1khz-3khz are too forward (emphasised) in contrast with the low mids. Vocals can sound a bit nasal or overly agressive at times. This also gives me the impression of a narrow soundstage.

- The low mids take a dip, there's just not enough balance from 300hz up to that 1khz mark and beyond so the contrast between the low mids and middle-upper mids is very grateingn.

- The treble region is a little peaky at some places, but not terrible. I definitely find the midrange issues are the main cause for the 'brightness' you hear.

- The bass is a bit underemphasised, it's well defined but lacks impact depth in its stock tuning. It doesn't balance out quiet enough with mids and treble for me.

So yeah I was taken along with the initial hype but it's got flaws that I cant overlook ad are difficult to fix with simple re-tuning.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 1, 2019)

Chris674 said:


> I agree that they are very treble heavy. The bass was what made me start experimenting with foams. Full foams made it very dull sounding and donuts made the bass very bloated and just impossible to enjoy. I have quite a few earbuds that are neutral and a few that are bassy...so I made this one my treble "sparkly" set. The bass issue is really not solvable in my opinion. Naked, the bass is non existent but with the VE wings there's at least a little better seal and a tiny pop in the bass right around the top end of a bass drum. I've heard some amazing imaging things (anomalies?) with this pair of buds that I've never heard with any other set so they'll always have a place in my rotation but they definitely couldn't be my only pair.


i thought they sounded a bit like Beyer dt1350's without the awesome bass quality depth (which is a deal breaker for this kind of sound).

I couldn't get the bass to improve with modding but im not an expert in sound or anything. It's just a subdued and kinda flabby bass response to be honest.

The best part of the SL 1.0+ is the upper treble and upper mids which are very articulate and neutral, maybe slightly bumped in the upper treble as it sounded . But I was sorely missing more bass quality and quantity.

It could do with a touch more low mids too to bring out the weight in vocals but I could live with it's stock sound if the bass was better.


----------



## snowmind (Oct 2, 2019)

Yesterday arrived the second unit of NiceHCK B40. Compared to the unit i have been using for two weeks and is still in the natural recording process, the new ones feature a small, impact-free sound. This way, i can assure friends that the burning process improves this bud.

This is new to me, because i didn't think a PK capsule and a smaller driver (14.8 mm) could provide adequate bass with good impact and extension, as there is here.

And about the war against the RY4S, Qian25, Qian69 and White Vido, i'm almost convinced that the best definition, image and soundstage is in the B40.


----------



## robar (Oct 2, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> True I think its better to talk in terms of general frequency range if possible and use the most basic wording you can so there can be a universal understanding of what you're trying to describe. The RY4S as I hear it has a few issues which make it hard to listen to on poorly mastered tracks or just in general for longer sessions.
> 
> - The mids around 1khz-3khz are too forward (emphasised) in contrast with the low mids. Vocals can sound a bit nasal or overly agressive at times. This also gives me the impression of a narrow soundstage.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your impressions  It's interesting because in my noob measurements which are kinda imitate the natural seal of earbuds and provide a faithful graph to what I hear subjectively, my RY4S UE is quite flat up until about 1.8-2k. But from 2k to about 4.5k the response climbs up by extra 6-7dB where there is a peak and roughly stays at +4dB level up until 12-14k. So basically from 2k upwards everything is elevated by an extra 4-5db compared to the fairly flat response below. I would say this should be quite accurate with my copy because as soon as I pulled down the 3-10k region with EQ concentrated on the 3k-5k range everything started to sound a lot better. Bass could be elevated too of course to get a good impact but I'd say its pretty flat and well extended for an earbud, which is of course not everyone's cup of tea but the main problem is just the relative level compared to the elevated 2.5k+ range.


----------



## cqtek

Mhog55 said:


> So I take it you prefer the Ti7? Just how bright is the ACG? From your comparison, I think I would go with the Ti7.



My preference is for Ti7, or, you could also try DX5, a little brighter than Ti7, but without reaching the ACG.


----------



## seanc6441

robar said:


> Thanks for your impressions  It's interesting because in my noob measurements which are kinda imitate the natural seal of earbuds and provide a faithful graph to what I hear subjectively, my RY4S UE is quite flat up until about 1.8-2k. But from 2k to about 4.5k the response climbs up by extra 6-7dB where there is a peak and roughly stays at +4dB level up until 12-14k. So basically from 2k upwards everything is elevated by an extra 4-5db compared to the fairly flat response below. I would say this should be quite accurate with my copy because as soon as I pulled down the 3-10k region with EQ concentrated on the 3k-5k range everything started to sound a lot better. Bass could be elevated too of course to get a good impact but I'd say its pretty flat and well extended for an earbud, which is of course not  everyone's cup of tea but the main problem is just the relative level compared to the elevated 2.5k+ range.


Interesting. I was going off memory but I'll take your word for the raise in the mids and upper mids (there could be slight variation where the peak starts in the mids).

I'm surprised your unit did not have a dip in the low mids, that was something I noticed with a frequency sweep and just in general comparision to my other gear. Although I'll say that it's not a wide dip like on some V shaped earbuds.

The bass i can understand, i drilled a bass port in the shell of my ry4s and i got a much stronger deeper bass response, so this earbud can produce strong bass but it depends on how it was tuned as stock, any change in the tuning foam position could effect it greatly. I think that's why some report the r4ys as bassy while others say otherwise.

Overall I agree with your sentiment, it's not a forgiving earbud and if you compare it to a smooth balanced tuned earbud with no offensive peaks you'll noticing a lot of these issues.


----------



## robar (Oct 2, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> Interesting. I was going off memory but I'll take your word for the raise in the mids and upper mids (there could be slight variation where the peak starts in the mids).
> 
> I'm surprised your unit did not have a dip in the low mids, that was something I noticed with a frequency sweep and just in general comparision to my other gear. Although I'll say that it's not a wide dip like on some V shaped earbuds.
> 
> ...


The interesting thing is that all of my buds like qians/vidos etc show this elevated 2-6k range to some extent, for example qian69 has a fairly big double spike which I hear as some kind of wonkiness in the upper mids. The biggest difference to my other buds is the ry4s ue's elevated level of the 6k+ range compared to 1k. While most of my gear has 1k and 6k+ roughly on the same level, ry4s ue gives about +4dB for the highs, I think this is the kind of brightness I feel fatiguing and peaky. The bass does lack of a bit extra punch below 100hz in stock form. I would share these graphs but I'm noob at this and I get some weird bumps/resonances around 250hz and 1.2k with all of my gear so I wouldn't like to mislead anybody with these. Also these are raw uncompensated measurements by pressing a bud with full foams against a tascam dr05


----------



## Chrisrd

snowmind said:


> Yesterday arrived the second unit of NiceHCK B40. Compared to the unit i have been using for two weeks and is still in the natural recording process, the new ones feature a small, impact-free sound. This way, i can assure friends that the burning process improves this bud.
> 
> This is new to me, because i didn't think a PK capsule and a smaller driver (14.8 mm) could provide adequate bass with good impact and extension, as there is here.
> 
> And about the war against the RY4S, Qian25, Qian69 and White Vido, i'm almost convinced that the best definition, image and soundstage is in the B40.



I too like my b40s  more than the RY4S and the Qian69. More impactful and fuller sound. One thing that surprised me is how substancial the buds feel. I don't know if it is the drivers or that the PK shells are made with thicker plastic as they are my first PK style buds but I like it. It seems to be getting better with use but may be subjective.


----------



## snowmind

Chrisrd said:


> I too like my b40s  more than the RY4S and the Qian69. More impactful and fuller sound. One thing that surprised me is how substancial the buds feel. I don't know if it is the drivers or that the PK shells are made with thicker plastic as they are my first PK style buds but I like it. It seems to be getting better with use but may be subjective.



Exactly, has greater impact and greater weight with smaller capsule and driver, was very well tuned. Its neutral signature with no peak frequency responses favors fatigue-free listening. I found it so appropriate that i ordered a second unit, still at the price of the lucky bag ($ 9 with microphone).

As for the hobby, this is the most interesting part, we can spend so little and get an incredible benefit.


----------



## DBaldock9

Started out today, listening to my Wong Kuan Wae Blur hALF/hALF (150Ω, 2.5mm TRRS) w/VE Thin Foams, connected to my Walnut F2 (OPA627AU) operating as a USB DAC for the work PC, playing some Haydn classical music on YouTube.
.
Then switched the Blur over to my ES100, playing the same music from my LG V30.
. 
Right now, I'm in a Lab at work, where it's noisy, so I've had to switch to some earphones.


----------



## Nec3 (Oct 2, 2019)

Hey guys are there any earbuds similar to the original *VE Monk*s? I absolutely loved them until I got tipsy one day and forgot to store them in a pouch, my kitten took that opportunity and tore them up. The one thing I liked about the monks were that they were basically simply earbuds that did their job and played all genres of music. They're nothing spectacular, and that's the same reason why I like *Sennheiser HD600*'s. Unfortunately VE discontinued the original Monks and released the VE Monk Plus which aren't great in comparison.

I also use Qian 39's but they require an aggressive -4db EQ dip at 900hz, they are also very poor in build quality. I've owned at least 4 pairs in my lifetime, I'm on my last pair and they last at most 3 months due to one channel dying out everytime.
I also had 3 pairs of *Koss KSC-75*'s, but they eventually distort on the right driver like the diaphragms get too loose and start vibrating along the housing.
I'd like to use my *FAD E3000* as daily drivers, but I can't use them as I need to listen to the door, my phone and of course my kitten.

The bolded earphones/headphones are items that I like *a lot *and I'm hoping if anyone has a good suggestion for similar cheap earbuds that will last me a good 1-2 years. They should cost at most $30 and it should be a pair that's flexible for all genres of music and aren't intimate, I'm not concerned about microdetails. The reason is because I tried to use my iSine 20's as daily drivers, sure they're comfy but they're too engaging and I get distracted from my work.

Some say I should train my kitten, yes, I do but kittens will be kittens and mine probably only has a year or so left before he slows down to sleeping all day.


----------



## waynes world (Oct 2, 2019)

Nec3 said:


> Hey guys are there any earbuds similar to the original *VE Monk*s? I absolutely loved them until I got tipsy one day and forgot to store them in a pouch, my kitten took that opportunity and tore them up. The one thing I liked about the monks were that they were basically simply earbuds that did their job and played all genres of music. They're nothing spectacular, and that's the same reason why I like *Sennheiser HD600*'s. Unfortunately VE discontinued the original Monks and released the VE Monk Plus which aren't great in comparison.
> 
> I also use Qian 39's but they require an aggressive -4db EQ dip at 900hz, they are also very poor in build quality. I've owned at least 4 pairs in my lifetime, I'm on my last pair and they last at most 3 months due to one channel dying out everytime.
> I also had 3 pairs of *Koss KSC-75*'s, but they eventually distort on the right driver like the diaphragms get too loose and start vibrating along the housing.
> ...



Kittens will indeed be kittens. And one will definitely be sad when their original Monks die.

There are many choices for you. But you can't lose with the NiceHCK B40's (if you're okay with the smaller shell):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000120453244.html

If you need the mx500 sized shells, there are many great and inexpensive options.


----------



## Nec3 (Oct 2, 2019)

waynes world said:


> Kittens will indeed be kittens. And one will definitely be sad when their original Monks die.
> 
> There are many choices for you. But you can't lose with the NiceHCK B40's (if you're okay with the smaller shell):
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000120453244.html
> ...



Thank you for the suggestion. The first review I read was, "Sound around, not inside the head. I have enough bass, it is not thick, but it manifests itself where necessary. Detail is, not excessive."

Sounds like a pair of earbuds I'd like, now should I order two or just one? Haha


----------



## snowmind

Nec3 said:


> Thank you for the suggestion. The first review I read was, "Sound around, not inside the head. I have enough bass, it is not thick, but it manifests itself where necessary. Detail is, not excessive."
> 
> Sounds like a pair of earbuds I'd like, now should I order two or just one? Haha



I have enough security that you can order a spare drive, there is no way to go wrong. This project was great, it's a powerful all-rounder.


----------



## waynes world

Nec3 said:


> Thank you for the suggestion. The first review I read was, "Sound around, not inside the head. I have enough bass, it is not thick, but it manifests itself where necessary. Detail is, not excessive."
> 
> Sounds like a pair of earbuds I'd like, now should I order two or just one? Haha



Do a search for "B40" in this thread. You might need to order three lol.


----------



## assassin10000

@Nec3 if you still have them, you can possibly re-cable them if only the cable is ruined.


----------



## XP_98 (Oct 2, 2019)

XP_98 said:


> The guy from Pureson Audio seems very serious, and gives a lot of tuning options. Of course, I will give my final opinion once I get my earbuds...


Hello
I got my Agares mmcx with 8 core cable for 24 + 25 USD.
Some pictures :













They seem sturdy.
After 100 hours of burn in as recommended, they sound "natural" as I wanted. They have a nice balanced sound, with enough bass, and react well to equalization so I could even fine tune them further.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 2, 2019)

waynes world said:


> Do a search for "B40" in this thread. You might need to order three lol.



I ordered two B40s separately, but the B40 I ordered earlier was lost on the plane.
So you (@Nec3) should take advantage of this lesson and  if “you might need to order three lol”,  you might need to order one and three separately lol.


----------



## csglinux

I finally pulled the trigger on some Moondrop Chaconnes  I'd heard them at CanJam a while back and really liked them, but didn't have my Shozy BK Stardusts with me to A/B against. Besides, CanJam can get a bit noisy, so it's not the ideal place to audition earbuds or open-backed cans anyway. I'll post my impressions when they arrive, but in the meantime I'd like to ask everybody out there that already owns the Chaconnes (both of you that is, @antdroid and @ClieOS)... How do they stack up against the Shozy BKs?


----------



## mochill

These are the BBB v1 SE tuned similar to the legendary Sony mdr-e888 . I never heard the sonys but want one in the future if I can find it cheap enough. These and so open in the mids and detailed without being harsh or thin sounding, the treble also natural and bass it tighter and deep.


----------



## Mhog55

cqtek said:


> My preference is for Ti7, or, you could also try DX5, a little brighter than Ti7, but without reaching the ACG.


How would you compare and contrast the low end betw the Ti7 and DX5? I'm assuming the Ti7 has better mids?


----------



## cqtek

Mhog55 said:


> How would you compare and contrast the low end betw the Ti7 and DX5? I'm assuming the Ti7 has better mids?



I have to listen to the low zone of both more carefully, but in the mid zone I have clear that I like the DX5 more, and it is due to a purely matter of adjustment: its shape is freer and facilitates me more the fit, this produces better contact, a fuller and closer sound in mids.

I will write a review about the DX5 and probably compare them.


----------



## Mhog55

cqtek said:


> I have to listen to the low zone of both more carefully, but in the mid zone I have clear that I like the DX5 more, and it is due to a purely matter of adjustment: its shape is freer and facilitates me more the fit, this produces better contact, a fuller and closer sound in mids.
> 
> I will write a review about the DX5 and probably compare them.


Look forward to the review and comparison.


----------



## ClieOS

csglinux said:


> I...but in the meantime I'd like to ask everybody out there that already owns the Chaconnes (both of you that is, @antdroid and @ClieOS)... How do they stack up against the Shozy BKs?



I think I like my balanced BK just a little more. Technically they are not actually very far from each other - but Chaconne's tuning sounds a bit bland to me, where BK easily excels in the mid-range.


----------



## csglinux

ClieOS said:


> I think I like my balanced BK just a little more. Technically they are not actually very far from each other - but Chaconne's tuning sounds a bit bland to me, where BK easily excels in the mid-range.


Thanks for the feedback @ClieOS  Those BKs seem to be hard to beat. (At least, I've not yet found an earbud I prefer.)
@antdroid?!?


----------



## mochill

The shozy xb is a gem too


----------



## nick n

Mochill is that BBB V1 SE thing available from stores that are not alibaba .


----------



## Chris674

I just got my Headroom MS-16's in today. Wow! I have lots of buds and some open back headphones but I don't think I've ever experienced "open" like this. When I'm not playing music through them it's like I don't even have anything in my ears. I can hear straight through them. All the music I've played sounds excessively spacious. Definitely a new (to me) exciting sound to add to my rotation.


----------



## antdroid

csglinux said:


> Thanks for the feedback @ClieOS  Those BKs seem to be hard to beat. (At least, I've not yet found an earbud I prefer.)
> @antdroid?!?



The Chaconne is still in transit so I haven’t received them yet. I have not heard the Shozy BK either, and had been reluctant to buy them because I hadn’t been impressed with any of Shozy’s IEMs that I have tried, in fact would rate a couple of them amongst the worst IEMs I’ve heard. Moondrop is the reverse of that, which was why I was willing to take a gamble. That said, I did find the newest Shozy Form 1.1 nice for its price and maybe that gives me enough confidence, along with the positive feedback here to try the BK too. It looks like it’s on Amazon Prime too.


----------



## subwoof3r

Still no impressions about the new Smabat *M1 Pro* ?


----------



## jogawag (Oct 3, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> Still no impressions about the new Smabat *M1 Pro* ?


You should hear the impressions about the new Smabat M1 Pro from @ClieOS first.  Because he must have listened to that carefully.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

subwoof3r said:


> Still no impressions about the new Smabat *M1 Pro* ?



M1 Pro Feedback from the Japanese Amazon, translated via Google translate

"I already purchased smabat ST10 from Amazon. Compared to ST10, the sound quality is less solid and softer, making it easier to hear vocals. Since the size is smaller than ST10, ears do not hurt even when worn for a long time. Compared to the Chinese earphones re-cable **** BK2 earphones used in the main, it seems to be the main role change inferior. I think that it is as described in the product description, “Overall soft tone, warm and glossy vocals are good. And the sense of sound field is wide and clear.” Many people who purchased that ST10 was super solid and the vocal was weak against the sound of hard gachigachi had reviewed it, so the manufacturer released a product that improved (changed the diaphragm?) It ’s time to think. Due to the goodness of the M1 pro, the ST10 is likely to disappear."



Spoiler


----------



## rkw

subwoof3r said:


> Still no impressions about the new Smabat *M1 Pro* ?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3000#post-15209152


----------



## seanc6441

Alex.Grimm said:


> M1 Pro Feedback from the Japanese Amazon, translated via Google translate
> 
> "I already purchased smabat ST10 from Amazon. Compared to ST10, the sound quality is less solid and softer, making it easier to hear vocals. Since the size is smaller than ST10, ears do not hurt even when worn for a long time. Compared to the Chinese earphones re-cable **** BK2 earphones used in the main, it seems to be the main role change inferior. I think that it is as described in the product description, “Overall soft tone, warm and glossy vocals are good. And the sense of sound field is wide and clear.” Many people who purchased that ST10 was super solid and the vocal was weak against the sound of hard gachigachi had reviewed it, so the manufacturer released a product that improved (changed the diaphragm?) It ’s time to think. Due to the goodness of the M1 pro, the ST10 is likely to disappear."
> 
> ...


Is that an accurate translation? I've no idea what the terms solid, glossy would mean in relation to frequency response. I'm guessing soft means less treble?


----------



## waynes world

Alex.Grimm said:


> M1 Pro Feedback from the Japanese Amazon, translated via Google translate
> 
> "I already purchased smabat ST10 from Amazon. Compared to ST10, the sound quality is less solid and softer, making it easier to hear vocals. Since the size is smaller than ST10, ears do not hurt even when worn for a long time. Compared to the Chinese earphones re-cable **** BK2 earphones used in the main, it seems to be the main role change inferior. I think that it is as described in the product description, “Overall soft tone, warm and glossy vocals are good. And the sense of sound field is wide and clear.” Many people who purchased that ST10 was super solid and the vocal was weak against the sound of hard gachigachi had reviewed it, so the manufacturer released a product that improved (changed the diaphragm?) It ’s time to think. Due to the goodness of the M1 pro, the ST10 is likely to disappear."
> 
> ...



Glad I clicked on your spoiler! So, you have the M1 Pro - excellent.

And I see that you enjoy many of the buds that I enjoy (Kube V1, Sabia V7, Willsound MK2). How do you like the ST10's in comparison? 

Ah, I just found this quote from you:


Alex.Grimm said:


> I have St10/vido/b40/willsound mk1 mk2 mk3 too
> 
> Its true. Willsond MK2 is not perfect but I like it more than Smabat ST-10 and all my earbuds are in signature.



Interesting. I love the MK2's, but I have a really hard time figuring out which buds I like the most. For example, right now I'm listening to the ME80's and really loving them. I think the "problem" is that they are all great, and that my brain adjusts to them easily.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to your M1 Pro impressions!


----------



## robar

Chris674 said:


> I just got my Headroom MS-16's in today. Wow! I have lots of buds and some open back headphones but I don't think I've ever experienced "open" like this. When I'm not playing music through them it's like I don't even have anything in my ears. I can hear straight through them. All the music I've played sounds excessively spacious. Definitely a new (to me) exciting sound to add to my rotation.


Sounds nice, I don't have one but the shell interest me. Did you buy the cheap 4-5usd version (Ollivan, Hangrui etc) or the 7-8usd one? I'm not sure if these are the same or different.


----------



## Willber

robar said:


> Sounds nice, I don't have one but the shell interest me. Did you buy the cheap 4-5usd version (Ollivan, Hangrui etc) or the 7-8usd one? I'm not sure if these are the same or different.


I have both (Headroom and Ollivan) and they are the same, i.e. excellent. The ones from Ollivan took longer to be delivered for some reason, though, and came without the branded packaging. Well built and great value for money.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

seanc6441 said:


> Is that an accurate translation? I've no idea what the terms solid, glossy would mean in relation to frequency response. I'm guessing soft means less treble?





Spoiler



https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/aw/revi...BYDXVW/ref=cm_cr_dp_mb_rvw_1?ie=UTF8&cursor=1


----------



## snowmind

@robar 

Your NiceHCK B40 unit has arrived. What are your impressions?


----------



## jogawag (Oct 3, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> Is that an accurate translation? I've no idea what the terms solid, glossy would mean in relation to frequency response. I'm guessing soft means less treble?



Google english translation is not well handled, so I corrected it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have already purchased smabat ST10 from Amazon. Compared to ST10, the sound quality is softer, making it easier to hear vocals. Since the size is smaller than ST10, ears do not hurt even when worn over ears for a long time.
Since it is better than **** BK2 earbuds (Chinese earbuds + re-cable) that I use in the main now, the main will likely take turns.
I have the same impression as the product description, "The overall sound is soft and the vocals with warmth and ambience are good. And the sound field is spacious and clear.".
Since many people who purchased ST10 reviewed that "ST10 is super solid and has a very hard tone, so the vocal was a weak point", the manufacturer released this product that improved (changed the diaphragm?) at this timing, I think that.
Because of the good performance of the M1 pro, I would have fewer opportunities to use ST10.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 3, 2019)

Edit: delete duplicates.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 3, 2019)

jogawag said:


> Google english translation is not well handled, so I corrected it.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I have already purchased smabat ST10 from Amazon. Compared to ST10, the sound quality is softer, making it easier to hear vocals. Since the size is smaller than ST10, ears do not hurt even when worn over ears for a long time.
> Since it is better than **** BK2 earbuds (Chinese earbuds + re-cable) that I use in the main now, the main will likely take turns.
> ...


Ok thanks so I guess solid and soft are referring to the tonal balance of the mids and low treble like we refer to as warm or cold sounding.

I'd be curious to know if the bass has the same depth as the st-10 and what the quantity is like.

The shape/size of the M1 looks like the perfect size for smaller ears.


----------



## robar (Oct 3, 2019)

snowmind said:


> @robar
> Your NiceHCK B40 unit has arrived. What are your impressions?





snowmind said:


> Yesterday arrived the second unit of NiceHCK B40. Compared to the unit i have been using for two weeks and is still in the natural recording process, the new ones feature a small, impact-free sound. This way, i can assure friends that the burning process improves this bud.
> This is new to me, because i didn't think a PK capsule and a smaller driver (14.8 mm) could provide adequate bass with good impact and extension, as there is here.
> And about the war against the RY4S, Qian25, Qian69 and White Vido, i'm almost convinced that the best definition, image and soundstage is in the B40.


I was going to quote you but you were quick to notice my signature change  So, I hope you're right with burn in… because I've been just listening to the B40 out of the box, and I would describe the sound exactly like you did with your new unit: small and impact-free. I would say my unit right now is very midcentric and lacks low bass entirely. Actually the bass starts to roll off around 200-250hz quite heavily and even at 100hz it's anemic, below that basically nonexistent. Mids are kinda smooth but they lack clarity and detail. I hope this will improve with burning because I don't wanna deal with two pk-shell lemons  I'm quite confident that b40 shouldn't sound like this based on the reviews, again it's not a fit/foam issue or whatever. The box was somewhat dented and that little cloth purse is not the best protection ever, so I hope nothing got misaligned. :/ Keep me in check about your second unit, maybe we have the same problem.


----------



## jogawag

seanc6441 said:


> Ok thanks so I guess solid and soft are referring to the tonal balance of the mids and low treble like we refer to as warm or cold sounding.
> 
> I'd be curious to know if the bass has the same depth as the st-10 and what the quantity is like.
> 
> The shape/size of the M1 looks like the perfect size for smaller ears.



I can't tell whether the bass has the same depth as the st-10 and what the quantity is like, because I don't have this M1 Pro.
But perhaps the M1 Pro may have 85% depth and quantity of bass of ST-10 as @ClieOS says below.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3000#post-15209152


----------



## citral23 (Oct 3, 2019)

robar said:


> I was going to quote you but you were quick to notice my signature change  So, I hope you're right with burn in… because I've been just listening to the B40 out of the box, and I would describe the sound exactly like you did with your new unit: small and impact-free. I would say my unit right now is very midcentric and lacks low bass entirely. Actually the bass starts to roll off around 200-250hz quite heavily and even at 100hz it's anemic, below that basically nonexistent. Mids are kinda smooth but they lack clarity and detail. I hope this will improve with burning because I don't wanna deal with two pk-shell lemons  I'm quite confident that b40 shouldn't sound like this based on the reviews, again it's not a fit/foam issue or whatever. The box was somewhat dented and that little cloth purse is not the best protection ever, so I hope nothing got misaligned. :/ Keep me in check about your second unit, maybe we have the same problem.



Don't underestimate brain burn-in. There's very little evidence such minuscule drivers change their response with time, from a science point of view it's really moot. However we adapt to the FR. I hated my EBX at first, for its lack of bass and very forward mids. After 3 days with them (8 hours per day) I now find my IEMs have too much bass, slow, bloated bass.

Nothing to do with burn-in, it's just the brain that adapted to the thin and very fast bass of the EBX, in comparison the others seem over the top and slow now.


----------



## Willber (Oct 3, 2019)

citral23 said:


> Don't underestimate brain burn-in. There's very little evidence such minuscule drivers change their response with time, from a science point of view it's really moot. However we adapt to the FR. I hated my EBX at first, for its lack of bass and very forward mids. After 3 days with them (8 hours per day) I now find my IEMs have too much bass, slow, bloated bass.
> 
> Nothing to do with burn-in, it's just the brain that adapted to the thin and very fast bass of the EBX, in comparison the others seem over the top and slow now.


I have heard that argument many times and I disagree (in some cases). I use EQ on all my phones and often find that I have to adjust it as the bud gets more used. Also, I always A/B new buds with others in my collection to help me get the tuning right and can hear the changes over time and make suitable adjustments. Sometimes I buy duplicates and compare them with older versions and note the immediate differences.

This doesn't happen to all of them, but enough to know that burn-in is a real thing for some equipment. The SR2 is a prime example which others can attest to.


----------



## robar (Oct 3, 2019)

citral23 said:


> Don't underestimate brain burn-in. There's very little evidence such minuscule drivers change their response with time, from a science point of view it's really moot. However we adapt to the FR. I hated my EBX at first, for its lack of bass and very forward mids. After 3 days with them (8 hours per day) I now find my IEMs have too much bass, slow, bloated bass.
> Nothing to do with burn-in, it's just the brain that adapted to the thin and very fast bass of the EBX, in comparison the others seem over the top and slow now.


I'm not a burn-in guy, for the most part I appropriate the so called burn in effects to foam/shell wear-and-tear or change in humidity, even ear shape etc. But I find it possible to be a factor in certain cases so I won't exclude it out of the possibilites.
There is no way brain burn will solve this B40, bass is so severly rolled off that its basically inaudible under 100hz, the sound is basically mids and highs, sounds like a faulty earphone, bass is basically on the level of my sub 1usd earbuds that I bought for diy projects. I measured it and looks just as bad as I hear it. My faulty SR2 has similarly missing bass, but that bud sounds like a complete disaster while this is ok from the mids up. I'm afraid this is a lemon too as after 5 hours of playtime it still sounds the same.
And also when I compare earbuds, I put large effort in to be as objective as possible, I put them on a splitter and switch between them every 10-20seconds on repetitive parts of my testing tracks (which I know very well, listened to them hundreds of time with dozens of gear) to prevent brain burn in, plus check my impressions with frequency response measurement too.


----------



## GREQ

Old foam is bassier than fresh foam.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 3, 2019)

.


----------



## dharmasteve

robar said:


> I'm not a burn-in guy, for the most part I appropriate the so called burn in effects to foam/shell wear-and-tear or change in humidity, even ear shape etc. But I find it possible to be a factor in certain cases so I won't exclude it out of the possibilites.
> There is no way brain burn will solve this B40, bass is so severly rolled off that its basically inaudible under 100hz, the sound is basically mids and highs, sounds like a faulty earphone, bass is basically on the level of my sub 1usd earbuds that I bought for diy projects. I measured it and looks just as bad as I hear it. My faulty SR2 has similarly missing bass, but that bud sounds like a complete disaster while this is ok from the mids up. I'm afraid this is a lemon too as after 5 hours of playtime it still sounds the same.
> And also when I compare earbuds, I put large effort in to be as objective as possible, I put them on a splitter and switch between them every 10-20seconds on repetitive parts of my testing tracks (which I know very well, listened to them hundreds of time with dozens of gear) to prevent brain burn in, plus check my impressions with frequency response measurement too.



It's quality control on many earbuds especially the cheaper ones. I've had quite a few QC failures.


----------



## robar

mbwilson111 said:


> Are you joking?


I'm not sure about bass but I think what he means is that a well used foam should sound a bit different compared to a fresh one, my theory is that as it gets stretched, dirt/dust build up in the pores, get thinner by the pressure etc. Similar to different types of foam - density and thickness varies greatly which affects seal and dampening, and these properties can change in time as well by usage. Of course that foam need to get quite a bit of use to achieve that. Also I noticed that when I open up an earbud which was glued down, the frequency response changes slightly after I snap it back. If the plastic cover gets little cracks on the edge like some of my vidos it also affects sound.  This can occur by tossing around, even the tuning foams can get dirty or weaker in time, one of old gear's biggest problem is that the tuning foams lose integrity or even turn into dust. I've recently cleaned up a vintage silver AKG K141 and I had to vacuum it out because the remnants of the foam inside become like sand and fall out of it constantly. Also the ears themselves can loosen up, I think if someone finds the mx500 shell slightly big but wears one for several hours every day, the tissue of the ear will get softer/looser and this will also affect seal.


----------



## seanc6441

Willber said:


> I have heard that argument many times and I disagree (in some cases). I use EQ on all my phones and often find that I have to adjust it as the bud gets more used. Also, I always A/B new buds with others in my collection to help me get the tuning right and can hear the changes over time and make suitable adjustments. Sometimes I buy duplicates and compare them with older versions and note the immediate differences.
> 
> This doesn't happen to all of them, but enough to know that burn-in is a real thing for some equipment. The SR2 is a prime example which others can attest to.


I think burn in is real but over-exaggerated on many occasions. Also effects different drivers very differently. I do believe my sr2 changed with burn in but I don't believe ALL my ear buds show improvement with burn in.

I think brain burn in is a consistent factor. Our brains are always adjusting to new sounds. So whichever earbuds we've used last will have left its mark on what our brains expect to hear if the song is played on new gear.

That's why many people can tolerate very dark or very bright gear, why others find mid centric earbuds sound neutral, or maybe the find V shaped earbuds to be balanced.

That and the fact that everyone hears differently and at different sound levels even.


----------



## Willber

seanc6441 said:


> I think burn in is real but over-exaggerated on many occasions. Also effects different drivers very differently. I do believe my sr2 changed with burn in but I don't believe ALL my ear buds show improvement with burn in.


Yes, that's why I said "in some cases".
(This is from my personal experience using systematic comparisons.)


----------



## Chris674

robar said:


> Sounds nice, I don't have one but the shell interest me. Did you buy the cheap 4-5usd version (Ollivan, Hangrui etc) or the 7-8usd one? I'm not sure if these are the same or different.


I'm not sure if they're different. They look exactly the same. I got mine from the JieTu Audio Store for $7.


----------



## gazzington

antdroid said:


> I just sorta blind bought the Moondrop Chaconne ear bud after not really being in the ear bud game for well over a year (maybe over 2) now. I really hope I didn't make a mistake.


Let me know what it's like. I've been out of earbuds for over a year


----------



## citral23

robar said:


> I'm not a burn-in guy, for the most part I appropriate the so called burn in effects to foam/shell wear-and-tear or change in humidity, even ear shape etc. But I find it possible to be a factor in certain cases so I won't exclude it out of the possibilites.
> There is no way brain burn will solve this B40, bass is so severly rolled off that its basically inaudible under 100hz, the sound is basically mids and highs, sounds like a faulty earphone, bass is basically on the level of my sub 1usd earbuds that I bought for diy projects. I measured it and looks just as bad as I hear it. My faulty SR2 has similarly missing bass, but that bud sounds like a complete disaster while this is ok from the mids up. I'm afraid this is a lemon too as after 5 hours of playtime it still sounds the same.
> And also when I compare earbuds, I put large effort in to be as objective as possible, I put them on a splitter and switch between them every 10-20seconds on repetitive parts of my testing tracks (which I know very well, listened to them hundreds of time with dozens of gear) to prevent brain burn in, plus check my impressions with frequency response measurement too.



It's not that I exclude the possibility alltogether, but let's be realistic, even a 1mm difference in the way we sit the earbuds makes a whole lot more difference than possible burn-in effect. Already gave my opinion on brain burn-in, which imo is a huge factor (along with how fresh/tired/moody etc. we are)


----------



## Willber

Chris674 said:


> I'm not sure if they're different. They look exactly the same. I got mine from the JieTu Audio Store for $7.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3011#post-15224490


----------



## Willber

citral23 said:


> It's not that I exclude the possibility alltogether, but let's be realistic, even a 1mm difference in the way we sit the earbuds makes a whole lot more difference than possible burn-in effect. Already gave my opinion on brain burn-in, which imo is a huge factor (along with how fresh/tired/moody etc. we are)


I posted my experiences with burn-in here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3012#post-15224952

I can assure you I am very systematic about these things and ensure like-for-like conditions when doing my comparisons, for example using the same foams and a reference library of various music tracks covering many genres. All my EQ profiles are archived for future reference (I produce up to 15 for each bud so have many hundreds of them). As I said, change doesn't happen in all cases (and is rarely profound) but it does happen. I am not discounting the phenomenon of 'brain burn-in' but it isn't the whole story IME.


----------



## 40760

Finally decided to order the Remax RM-301 @ $5.


----------



## sareer007

I have only experienced drastic burnin in the case of sr2. Other buds had little to no burnin. But in the case of sr2 I am 100% sure that the sound changed with use. For me brain burnin is not that pronounced as even if I use a bud for a year when a song comes where the buds were bad, it still remains bad.


----------



## Willber

palestofwhite said:


> Finally decided to order the Remax RM-301 @ $5.


I like the look of those, where did you get them from? I can't find any available.


----------



## Willber

sareer007 said:


> I have only experienced drastic burnin in the case of sr2. Other buds had little to no burnin. But in the case of sr2 I am 100% sure that the sound changed with use.


Another notable example for me was the Sony E808+. Didn't take as long as the SR2 but it was consistent with all three that I bought over a few weeks.


----------



## DBaldock9

This morning at work, I've got my homemade Graphene earbuds (2.5TRRS, 400Ω, Wood housing, Tethered cable [$48.00 (Drivers = $27, Shells = $14, Cable = $7)]) connected to my Walnut F2 (OPA627AU), running as a USB DAC, and streaming music from YouTube.

These drivers really do sound good, especially when listening to acoustic (and electric) guitar, like this playlist of William Ellwood tracks -
.


----------



## snowmind

@robar 

You seem to have received a lemon, contact Jim Nicehck to talk about it. If you do a quick search on bud B40, which is a newer product, you will not see low quality complaints or insufficient bass frequency.

Again, i say that this model has an improvement in sound after natural recording; i compared a recorded drive with a new one. Although when new, i do not consider its sound horrible, as you say.


----------



## RobinFood

seanc6441 said:


> Is that an accurate translation? I've no idea what the terms solid, glossy would mean in relation to frequency response. I'm guessing soft means less treble?



glossy in this case better translates to sensual...I'm not sure that gives you a better idea, but they are saying that the vocals sensuality is pretty good...the whole review is focused on how good the vocals are.


----------



## Chris674

Willber said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3011#post-15224490


Sorry about that. Now I'm sad that I didn't pay $4 for them though.


----------



## Willber

Chris674 said:


> Sorry about that. Now I'm sad that I didn't pay $4 for them though.


Buy more, I've got five!


----------



## Chris674

Willber said:


> Another notable example for me was the Sony E808+. Didn't take as long as the SR2 but it was consistent with all three that I bought over a few weeks.


That's good to hear. I took out my E808+  the other day and found them a bit lacking. I also wondered if that was a bud that I could/should put a foam on. It's so different from the others.


----------



## Willber

Chris674 said:


> That's good to hear. I took out my E808+  the other day and found them a bit lacking. I also wondered if that was a bud that I could/should put a foam on. It's so different from the others.


After a few hours (about 20) you should find the E808+ to have a very full sound, bassy with a wide but shallow soundstage. Not great in detail but decent mids and highs. I also find the asymmetrical shape very comfortable, it's a shame the shell is not more widely used. (I use foams, usually full, sometimes donuts, on all my buds.)


----------



## seanc6441

RobinFood said:


> glossy in this case better translates to sensual...I'm not sure that gives you a better idea, but they are saying that the vocals sensuality is pretty good...the whole review is focused on how good the vocals are.


Nah I'm still not sure what that means exactly lol. So many audiophile terms so little time to learn them all xD


----------



## RobinFood

seanc6441 said:


> Nah I'm still not sure what that means exactly lol. So many audiophile terms so little time to learn them all xD



Since the review is being compared to the ST-10 a lot and especially the vocals I am going to take a stab in the dark and say that the vocals are probably more forward than on the ST-10 which had then more distant to create that nice soundscape imaging.

I felt like the ST-10 did a great job separating all the instruments and giving you a birds eye view of the track but didn't push any part in the forefront.

The new Smabat is probably more mid forward.


----------



## 40760

Willber said:


> I like the look of those, where did you get them from? I can't find any available.



I don't know if you're able to purchase them, but I bought them from a local e-commerce site here.


----------



## Willber

palestofwhite said:


> I don't know if you're able to purchase them, but I bought them from a local e-commerce site here.


Thanks, shipping is more than the bud but I might go for it anyway.


----------



## 40760

Willber said:


> Thanks, shipping is more than the bud but I might go for it anyway.



I'm intrigued by the form factor and have always wanted to try them. I bought a black pair and sure hope it surprises me like the more expensive Remax RM-303.


----------



## Willber

palestofwhite said:


> I'm intrigued by the form factor and have always wanted to try them. I bought a black pair and sure hope it surprises me like the more expensive Remax RM-303.


Yes, that is what attracted me. But that website is being a bit cheeky. It lists prices in S$ but when I go to checkout it uses the same numbers in £, which is about double the value! I'll give them a miss for now.


----------



## 40760

Willber said:


> Yes, that is what attracted me. But that website is being a bit cheeky. It lists prices in S$ but when I go to checkout it uses the same numbers in £, which is about double the value! I'll give them a miss for now.



This site is only good for the domestic market and can get pretty notorious to navigate at times. I think you should still be able to find them elsewhere on the web, but not with a lot of colour options for the time being...


----------



## Willber

Righto, I'll keep looking. Not worried about the colour.


----------



## seanc6441

RobinFood said:


> Since the review is being compared to the ST-10 a lot and especially the vocals I am going to take a stab in the dark and say that the vocals are probably more forward than on the ST-10 which had then more distant to create that nice soundscape imaging.
> 
> I felt like the ST-10 did a great job separating all the instruments and giving you a birds eye view of the track but didn't push any part in the forefront.
> 
> The new Smabat is probably more mid forward.


Ah ok that helps thanks.


----------



## 40760 (Oct 4, 2019)

Willber said:


> Righto, I'll keep looking. Not worried about the colour.



Seems like they have some on Aliexpress... Do a search for "Remax RM-301"...


----------



## Willber

palestofwhite said:


> Seems like they have some on Aliexpress... Do a search for "Remax RM-301"...


Cheers, I've found them on ebay as well - and one supplier is in my home town so I can have them next week! Time to pull the trigger...


----------



## seanc6441

Anyone hear about the new Microsoft wireless surface earbuds? Seem interesting.


----------



## 40760

seanc6441 said:


> Anyone hear about the new Microsoft wireless surface earbuds? Seem interesting.



I can imaging pairing this with the Microsoft Surface Duo...


----------



## robar (Oct 4, 2019)

palestofwhite said:


> Finally decided to order the Remax RM-301 @ $5.


These are sold here in my country at some online shops for 7-8usd. Is it any good?


snowmind said:


> @robar
> 
> You seem to have received a lemon, contact Jim Nicehck to talk about it. If you do a quick search on bud B40, which is a newer product, you will not see low quality complaints or insufficient bass frequency.
> 
> Again, i say that this model has an improvement in sound after natural recording; i compared a recorded drive with a new one. Although when new, i do not consider its sound horrible, as you say.


I've written a message to both Chitty and Jim, but of course this week nobody answers because of the holiday, and I was dumb enough to confirm the order as soon as I've received it. So I'm quite torn between opening a dispute right away, because I have only 15 days from confirmation to start one. I've measured the frequency responses and put those next to a qian25, it's very significant I hope that's enough proof for them.


----------



## snowmind

robar said:


> I've written a message to both Chitty and Jim, but of course this week nobody answers because of the holiday, and I was dumb enough to confirm the order as soon as I've received it. So I'm quite torn between opening a dispute right away, because I have only 15 days from confirmation to start one. I've measured the frequency responses and put those next to a qian25, it's very significant I hope that's enough proof for them.



Do you have any graphics?


----------



## mbwilson111

robar said:


> These are sold here in my country at some online shops for 7-8usd. Is it any good?
> 
> I've written a message to both Chitty and Jim, but of course this week nobody answers because of the holiday, and I was dumb enough to confirm the order as soon as I've received it. So I'm quite torn between opening a dispute right away, because I have only 15 days from confirmation to start one. I've measured the frequency responses and put those next to a qian25, it's very significant I hope that's enough proof for them.



Starting a dispute right away is not a good way to go if you want good relations in the future with sellers.  They want happy customers.


----------



## robar (Oct 5, 2019)

snowmind said:


> Do you have any graphics?


So here are my simple measurements, I chose qian25 because it's a very well known fairly balanced earbud with nothing special in its response curve. As you can see the SR2 is complete disaster and the B40 is mostly fails at bass and the upper mids are a little bit rough. A normal earbud should keep it's bass at least until 100hz before starting to dip, now they basically sound like some laptop speaker with almost no audible bass. The measurement is not perfect of course but fairly accurate in my opinion apart from 2 minor peaks which can be disregarded easily (around 250hz and a small one around 1.2k which are always there and I dont know how to compensate it yet)


----------



## jogawag

robar said:


> So here are my simple measurements, I chose qian25 because it's a very well known fairly balanced earbud with nothing special in its response curve. As you can see the SR2 is complete disaster and the B40 is mostly fails at bass and the upper mids are a little bit rough. A normal earbud should keep it's bass at least until 100hz before starting to dip, now they basically sound like some laptop speaker with almost no audible bass. The measurement is not perfect of course but fairly accurate in my opinion apart from 2 minor peaks which can be disregarded easily (around 250hz and a small one around 1.2k which are always there and I dont know how to compensate it yet)



The Quian69 graph has already been posted on the famous AudioBudget site, so if you can do it, I think Quian69 is better than Qian25 as a measurement for comparison.
Then you can show the seller the Quian69 graph on this site as a reference.
(https://audiobudget.com/product/QianYun/Qian69)


----------



## robar (Oct 4, 2019)

jogawag said:


> The Quian69 graph has already been posted on the famous AudioBudget site, so if you can do it, I think Quian69 is better than Qian25 as a measurement for comparison.
> Then you can show the seller the Quian69 graph on this site as a reference.
> (https://audiobudget.com/product/QianYun/Qian69)


He uses a completely different method that cant be compared with mine unfortunately. In my graphs an ideal flat sounding earbud should show a straight horizontal line, like how diyaudioheaven measures. I  think Audiobudget measures the direct sound of the driver like manufacturers do which is completely detached from the actual sound one hears in the real world, but can be standardized. My goal is to make direct comparisons and show the difference I cant make those kind of industry tests.


----------



## 40760

robar said:


> These are sold here in my country at some online shops for 7-8usd. Is it any good?



They just shipped today so I should be getting them early or mid of next week.


----------



## robar (Oct 5, 2019)

In the meantime I've took some macro photos of my SR2 and there are some fairly large gaps between the driver cover and shell, and glue residue creeps out of them. I think this should be one of the reasons of faulty sound, I sent them to Chitty. I can't push it back or stuff like that because the the gaps are lateral and the glue is solid.


palestofwhite said:


> They just shipped today so I should be getting them early or mid of next week.


Thanks I'm interested


----------



## Jsingh4

Hi guys I have Shiro Yuki and I like the sound signature but it has a little bit of sibilance or brightness is there a way to fix that, I am using full foams


----------



## ClieOS

ClieOS said:


> Yincrow RW-1000: carbon fiber diaphragm with titanium coating, price around $155, ETA end of the month



Update: $155 is a misquote. Actual price is around $85 or so. It has began shipping in China.


----------



## Chris674

seanc6441 said:


> Anyone hear about the new Microsoft wireless surface earbuds? Seem interesting.


The price is a bit steep but I'm a Microsoft fan so if they sound decent I will probably jump on board.


----------



## dharmasteve (Oct 6, 2019)

On BVGP the official store on Ali express it says about the BVGP DX5.... "14.2mm biological diaphragm dynamic driver".  Anyone know what a "biological driver" is? Are they harvesting  them?   Ugggh.


----------



## mochill

dharmasteve said:


> On BVGP the official store on Ali express it says about the BVGP DX5.... "14.2mm biological diaphragm dynamic driver".  Anyone know what a "biological driver" is? Are they harvesting  them?   Ugggh.


Biocellulose


----------



## ClieOS (Oct 6, 2019)

dharmasteve said:


> On BVGP the official store on Ali express it says about the BVGP DX5.... "14.2mm biological diaphragm dynamic driver".  Anyone know what a "biological driver" is? Are they harvesting  them?   Ugggh.



English is usually not a strong point for Chineae headphone makers.

Also, biologocal / biocellulose diaphragm is probably a misquote, as DX5 uses DLC (Diamond-Like-Carbon) diaphragm.


----------



## AtrafCreez

mochill said:


> Biocellulose


  Not just the Chinese have the bad translations (there must be a few million Chinese Americans who can translate from their home in North America. Its a third world thing. American product names show POWER while Asian Product names are more aesthetic and emotional. ie "Little Kitty", and when I saw the gigantic electric conglomerate  50 years ago named "Brother"-that says it all. PowerHouse vs. Brother LOL
I checked here and they are Chinese https://www.banggood.com/buy/bgvp-dx5.html


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 7, 2019)

Jsingh4 said:


> Hi guys I have Shiro Yuki and I like the sound signature but it has a little bit of sibilance or brightness is there a way to fix that, I am using full foams


Not easy to fix without modding (or EQ). You could try using a full foam and a donut foam on top. That's your best bet if you don't mess with EQ.

You could also try opening it up and reducing the tuning foam to increase the frequency below 2khz which would help balance the sound. But if you're not experienced in modding it can be tough to get the right balance and you may damage the earbud if its glued shut.

Your best bet is to EQ down the target area, or buy a new earbud with less sibilance.


----------



## Willber

seanc6441 said:


> Your best bet is to EQ down the target area, or buy a new earbud with less sibilance.


My first choice is always EQ - it's Effective and Quick!


----------



## HungryPanda

Toneking TP16, really good earbuds, easy to drive and no piercing treble to worry about


----------



## waynes world

seanc6441 said:


> Your best bet is to EQ down the target area, or buy a new earbud with less sibilance.



Or to EQ up the target area! For example, I use the Radsone E100's "Bass Boost" EQ setting for the B40's and a few other buds.


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> Or to EQ up the target area! For example, I use the Radsone E100's "Bass Boost" EQ setting for the B40's and a few other buds.


If he's trying to reduce sibilance I think EQing down that area would be advisable.


----------



## waynes world (Oct 7, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> If he's trying to reduce sibilance I think EQing down that area would be advisable.



You're right of course. I was just jumping in, making a comment that was not really germane to the current conversation in order to confuse and obfuscate lol


----------



## citral23

Received my TO200, what can I say, well first the cable is not very pleasing (very plastic). I'll swap it for a **** 6 cores asap.

But apart from that, which isn't a turnoff given it's rather cheap, the sound is good. It doesn't have nearly as much clarity as my EBX, but the bass is almost as fast and resolving, while mids/trebles are immensely less fatiguing. Good choice for work, can listen to that 8 hours long no problem.

Treble is on the subdued side, but with donuts it's enough for me, I really don't want more. With full foams it's slightly not enough, for me.

So it's a good middle ground between my KB2 which have comfortable mids and treble, but slow/boomy bass, and the EBX which is very resolving, and has super fast/textured bass, but lacks bass quantity.

My smartphone drives it fine, which surprises me a bit as it's 200ohms, but sensitivity is high (113db/MW), still it benefits from being paired with my zishan DSD pro that has way more power.

A characteristic that I like with what I consider good IEMS/earbuds (KPE, KB100...) is that I can pump the volume and it doesn't get harsh at all, quite the opposite in fact, it just sounds better and better. Which is something I can't say of the various KZs, for example.

Good set for 37€ imo.

I was disapointed with the EBX at first, but now I find its 77€ price is kind of justified given the resolving aptitudes, and superb cable, easily worth 30€ alone. It's just a "critical listening" set with all that implies, while I expected a daily driver (it's not).


----------



## seanc6441

waynes world said:


> You're right of course. I was just jumping in, making a comment that was not really germane to the current conversation in order to confuse and obfuscate lol


Carry on then xD


----------



## snowmind

Friends, do you use EQ in all kinds of situations?

I always read that to appreciate the tuning and work of the sound engineer, it is necessary not to use any kind of modification.


----------



## mbwilson111

snowmind said:


> Friends, do you use EQ in all kinds of situations?
> 
> I always read that to appreciate the tuning and work of the sound engineer, it is necessary not to use any kind of modification.



Many people do not use EQ.  I am one of them.  I just let the gear be what it is.


----------



## subwoof3r

seanc6441 said:


> You could also try opening it up and reducing the tuning foam to increase the frequency below 2khz which would help balance the sound


Interesting, so to increase bass, the key is to reduce some tuning cotton from drivers? this is strange because in all my DIY tries I conclued the contrary (at least in my MX500 mods), if I generally remove all the tuning foams attached on drivers, there is much less bass (as less tight/pressure) and soundstage becomes rough, due to too much opened holes at the same time (from shells side).


----------



## seanc6441

snowmind said:


> Friends, do you use EQ in all kinds of situations?
> 
> I always read that to appreciate the tuning and work of the sound engineer, it is necessary not to use any kind of modification.


I rather mod first and EQ later if needed because EQ only fits to specific sources and doesn't fix every issue (although it can fix a lot of issues).

But saying that you shouldn't EQ because that's not what the sound engineer intended is not something I agree with. The guys tuning the earbud have a specific preference, if you like it cool if not then there's no reason you shouldn't EQ to fit your own preference.

And the sound engineers mastering tracks, don't they use EQ themselves when mastering? They try to work with the 'most common tuning' to suit consumer gear. So naturally most modern music is tuned treble heavy because most consumer gear is bassy heavy. They try to balance it out.

Well mastered stuff should sound the best on neutral gear, but of course neutral is also debated and we all hear different.

So EQ to your hearts content if you want, that's what I'll say!


----------



## Willber (Oct 7, 2019)

snowmind said:


> Friends, do you use EQ in all kinds of situations?
> 
> I always read that to appreciate the tuning and work of the sound engineer, it is necessary not to use any kind of modification.


When you consider all the variables involved in using earphones (see below, I'm sure there are others) it is isn't realistic to assume you are hearing exactly the "work of the sound engineer":

Source file/physical medium
DAC
Amplifier
Cable

Shell
Driver
Manufacturer's tuning
Foam
Fit
All of the above can affect the sound produced by the earphones. With all this in mind, I prefer to use EQ to tune the 'output' to suit my tastes. I have found some really good (and cheap) gems* by applying EQ that others might disregard because they take the sound at face value.


(* The latest being the £4 Mixx Tribute recently suggested by the Flying Panda Twins. I'll try to describe them more fully in due course.)


----------



## robar (Oct 7, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> Interesting, so to increase bass, the key is to reduce some tuning cotton from drivers? this is strange because in all my DIY tries I conclued the contrary (at least in my MX500 mods), if I generally remove all the tuning foams attached on drivers, there is much less bass (as less tight/pressure) and soundstage becomes rough, due to too much opened holes at the same time (from shells side).


I think some quantity of foam is necessary for the earbud to work properly, either on the drivers or on the vents. But my experience is that if you keep adding more to the vents it will flat out the sound in the expense of bass extension and clarity. Basically reduces all frequencies below 3-4k with the most effect on mid/upper bass while smoothing out upper mids/lower highs around 2-4k. For example I have 3 different sounding vidos and the only real difference between them is the thickness of foam on the vents. The one with the thickest foam (y-blue) sounds flattest with shallowest bass muddiest mids while the one with thinnest foam (new white) is the most V shaped with deepest bass.


----------



## chinmie

snowmind said:


> Friends, do you use EQ in all kinds of situations?
> 
> I always read that to appreciate the tuning and work of the sound engineer, it is necessary not to use any kind of modification.



don't take that as fixed thing. the only way to listen to their original intent is to sit in their specific spot in their studio. take a few meters off the spot, and that sound is basically different.

sounds engineers use of EQ when they mix/master is the product of many compromises: the players, the album sound direction, what the producer think, and also menial human things like what songs/sound systems currently listening to, their current mood and health at the time, etc, etc. 

many of them when hearing their past work would mix them again based on their latest taste

the only thing that limits them is time. give eternity to them, and they'll mix/master their work endlessly..or at least until they're just got tired of it.

so just use EQ freely based on what you want to hear


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> Many people do not use EQ.  I am one of them.  I just let the gear be what it is.



in all regards, when we collect many earphones and use them to listen to a song, we are basically using EQ with that earphone . i do like to listen to the same album with different earphones on each pass, so i can get different feel and nuances every time.

i do agree, if we have access to multiple different earphones, it's better to swap gears and use no EQ. but when i travel and only bring one earphone, i would definitely use EQ


----------



## LordJesus

Do you know of any cheap (below 100$) earbuds that come pre-terminated with a 4.4 mm Pentaconn plug?

I'm asking because I just bought a Sony DAP and I want to try out the balanced output.


----------



## kingdixon

LordJesus said:


> Do you know of any cheap (below 100$) earbuds that come pre-terminated with a 4.4 mm Pentaconn plug?
> 
> I'm asking because I just bought a Sony DAP and I want to try out the balanced output.



I don't know if there are any pre-terminated into 4.4 but your other option would be one terminated to mmcx, then use any 4.4 cable of your choice.

i have willsound mk2 and it sounds amazing on my wm1a balanced, it comes in mmcx, then you can use any cable or buy one terminated in 4.4.

also, if you are set on a specific earbud, you can ask aliexpress sellers if it can be terminated to 4.4 for extra, alot of them can do such mods.


----------



## mbwilson111

LordJesus said:


> Do you know of any cheap (below 100$) earbuds that come pre-terminated with a 4.4 mm Pentaconn plug?
> 
> I'm asking because I just bought a Sony DAP and I want to try out the balanced output.



If you cannot find one that is 4.4mm you can use an adapter like this with 2.5mm balanced cables.... or buds that are already terminated with 2.5 balanced.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/FiiO-BL44-...argid=aud-544645955450:pla-529960211437&psc=1


----------



## 40760

Most Venture Electronics earbuds does come in 4.4mm Pentacon options...


----------



## HungryPanda

I bought my Linsoul BLD 150 in 4.4 terminated


----------



## seanc6441

robar said:


> I think some quantity of foam is necessary for the earbud to work properly, either on the drivers or on the vents. But my experience is that if you keep adding more to the vents it will flat out the sound in the expense of bass extension and clarity. Basically reduces all frequencies below 3-4k with the most effect on mid/upper bass while smoothing out upper mids/lower highs around 2-4k. For example I have 3 different sounding vidos and the only real difference between them is the thickness of foam on the vents. The one with the thickest foam (y-blue) sounds flattest with shallowest bass muddiest mids while the one with thinnest foam (new white) is the most V shaped with deepest bass.


That's my experience, it really depends on how the stock tuning is done. Many earbuds are overdamped with thick tuning cotton to reduce frequency below 2khz to increase perceived detail in the highs (literally just making many earbuds treble heavy especially from 3-8khz which seems to be very prominent in many earbuds).

However some buds will suffer if you remove some of the tuning foam becauss they are not overdamped.

Pk shells give you more tuning flexibility because you can tune the driver damping and also the shell separately. But in mx500 shells the tuning foam effects both the driver and the shell simultaneously.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 8, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> Interesting, so to increase bass, the key is to reduce some tuning cotton from drivers? this is strange because in all my DIY tries I conclued the contrary (at least in my MX500 mods), if I generally remove all the tuning foams attached on drivers, there is much less bass (as less tight/pressure) and soundstage becomes rough, due to too much opened holes at the same time (from shells side).


Depends on the stock tuning, the shell type (mx500 has only one variable which is the horse shoe tuning foam, pk and similar shells have two). Also depending on if you convert to mmcx and add a bass port (which you should because it makes a difference to bass extension and soundstaging in my experience). Although like everything else with tuning you must use trial and error. I usually make a very small 1-1.5mm bass port and see how it performs, too much will ruin the shell tuning.

If it's a pk or similar shell I find tuning the driver first without foams and out of its shell is a good idea. I use the paper filters of various thinkess or some sticky backed tuning foam to tune the driver to get a clear but unrestricted open sound. (I find overdamped drivers sound flat and dead, underdamped sounds muddy and also lacks energy). You'll know when it's damped to the right level by testing the extremes first until you reach a good level.

After that i put it in the shell and tune the shell with a full foam attached to the earbud, that will give me an idea of what the final sound will be like.

I usually allow the earbud to sound slightly warmer than ideal because when you seal up the driver to the shell it tightens up the sound slightly and that extra warmth is reduced.

While you can add more bass to some tunings because they were overdamped. That's not always the case. So really its a trial and error game. So you are right in saying that removing too much damping will also negatively effect the bass impact.


----------



## robar (Oct 8, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> That's my experience, it really depends on how the stock tuning is done. Many earbuds are overdamped with thick tuning cotton to reduce frequency below 2khz to increase perceived detail in the highs (literally just making many earbuds treble heavy especially from 3-8khz which seems to be very prominent in many earbuds).
> 
> However some buds will suffer if you remove some of the tuning foam becauss they are not overdamped.
> 
> Pk shells give you more tuning flexibility because you can tune the driver damping and also the shell separately. But in mx500 shells the tuning foam effects both the driver and the shell simultaneously.


Thank you for your explanations, they are very useful to me as a novice diy-er  Yes I've only tried shells so far that have similar vents to mx500 (directly over the speakers) I have a diy mx760 project going one where the shell don't have any tuning foam added, just the speakers have a thin stripe of horseshoe, and the sound is already nice and clean but somewhat bright. It'll be interesting to see if adding a foam to the vents increase or decrease brightness. With medical tape on the vents the bass got less in depth and quantity, but maybe a regular thin horseshoe have different effect.
I have an empty pk shell from the faulty sr2 and it's not impossible that I'll have another one from the faulty b40 so I'll put them to good use at least in the future. My only obstacle right now is that I don't have any 14.8mm speakers unfortunately and the available parts at aliexpress are either expensive or only sold in 10 unit lots… I also plan to diy with small shells like ms16 etc. which should create interesting tuning options as well.
How do you drill bass ports on mx500 shells? You kind of guess where the hole should go and just start to drill from the inside?


----------



## chaiyuta

Between **** KP110 and Smabat ST-10, which one is a upper hand?


----------



## Willber

robar said:


> I have an empty pk shell from the faulty sr2 and it's not impossible that I'll have another one from the faulty b40


Can you please check those two side by side? I found that my B40 shell is slightly bigger than my SR2. In fact it is bigger than all of my 'PK' buds. Please confirm I'm not going mad!'


----------



## robar (Oct 8, 2019)

Willber said:


> Can you please check those two side by side? I found that my B40 shell is slightly bigger than my SR2. In fact it is bigger than all of my 'PK' buds. Please confirm I'm not going mad!'


I checked them for you and while the shells are exactly the same (apart from the one blocked vent on the b40) the B40's front cover is a lot bigger, mostly thicker but I think the diameter is also larger by a small amount. It looks similar to a 15.4mm speaker in size. Maybe this is why you feel the B40 is bigger, I think the front cover adds a few millimeters to the overall size. By the way I'm not particularly digging the comfort of these pk-buds (I mostly tried B40)… the bulgy body push my ears quite hard from the inside and it starts to hurt after 30mins. The fit is good but for long term listening I very much prefer even mx500 shells. (I'm a tall guy but have relatively small ears, so I guess that makes my ears average-sized?  ) Qian69 is still the most comfortable earbud I've ever had. (closely followed by Qian39, which is even good for sleeping on the side)


----------



## assassin10000

@robar B40 is 16.7mm diameter, where as most pk buds are 16.1mm.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2985#post-15192231


----------



## jogawag

chaiyuta said:


> Between **** KP110 and Smabat ST-10, which one is a upper hand?


ClieOS says "KP110 is quite good, but if you have ST-10, you don't have to take KP110." elsewhere.


----------



## robar (Oct 8, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> @robar B40 is 16.7mm diameter, where as most pk buds are 16.1mm.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2985#post-15192231


So it's indeed really close to 15.4mm earbuds! (I meant covers for mx500 shell for example, and your measurements show 16.8mm for those vs 16.7mm for the b40) However the biggest difference is the thickness of the cover in my opinion, in a quick glance it's almost twice as thick as sr2, I think it makes the B40 taller/deeper


----------



## Willber

robar said:


> So it's indeed really close to 15.4mm earbuds! (I meant covers for mx500 shell for example, and your measurements show 16.8mm for those vs 16.7mm for the b40) However the biggest difference is the thickness of the cover in my opinion, in a quick glance it's almost twice as thick as sr2, I think it makes the B40 taller/deeper


Thanks for checking. I find the smaller & shallower SR2 more comfortable.


----------



## robar (Oct 8, 2019)

Willber said:


> Thanks for checking. I find the smaller & shallower SR2 more comfortable.


This actually got me thinking whether the B40 could be compatible with mx500/mx760 drivers… If it's not just glue or extra thick plastic on the cover but they actually modified the shell to snap on bigger front covers then it might be possible. I haven't got any real support from the sellers so far so basically wasted 20bucks on empty shells and mediocre cables.. I might just put on a dispute and disassemble these buds, at least we get to see what's inside lol. If I ever get some kind of refund I'll just buy some speakers from it as replacement, it would be fun if this b40 could actually  accept something like an emx500 or the speakers I have in my mx760.


----------



## csglinux

@antdroid - did you receive your Chaconnes yet?

Here are my initial impressions of them... Beautiful sounding earbuds.  These are the only earbuds I've heard so far that I think (to my ears) could rival or surpass my Shozy BKs. Need more listening time to make a definitive call on that.

They are an overall brighter-sounding earbud. Mine came with a little card recommending to use the enclosed "sponges". I agree. Without full foamies they're a little too much. With full foams they sound awesome.

Some negatives though. They aren't cheap. They're a bit blingy. They're not as ergonomic as the Shozy BKs. The Shozys just sit perfectly in my ears. The Chaconnes feel like they're fighting to escape. I don't think I'd have much luck running with these. The other issue is that the bass is terribly dependent on the seal (or not) against the ear canal opening. If you get them to seat just right, the bass is right up there with that of the Shozys, but if you move around a bit, the low end can get a bit lost. I need to experiment a bit more with the fit and with different foams.

Overall, I'm pretty happy with these. They rival the best IEMs I've heard for sound quality.


----------



## antdroid (Oct 8, 2019)

csglinux said:


> @antdroid - did you receive your Chaconnes yet?
> 
> Here are my initial impressions of them... Beautiful sounding earbuds.  These are the only earbuds I've heard so far that I think (to my ears) could rival or surpass my Shozy BKs. Need more listening time to make a definitive call on that.
> 
> ...



Just got them today and just got home to try them out a few minutes ago.

I am a tad unimpressed so far. Lacking bass, but I feel it comes back when I press on them to get better seal, so I may need to double up the foam or do some thing to get better seal. Otherwise, the build is impressive and the cable is fantastic. It sounds bright, and that's a bit annoying but that could be due to seal. I'll play around a little more or see if i can correct with EQ.


----------



## ClieOS

I used my Chaconne with donut foam. As with other Moondrop's earbuds, it sounds better with foam.


----------



## 40760

Just received the Remax RM-301. Sound is decently good out of the box and fit reminds me of old Sony earbuds due to the unique driver cover design. Even comes with instructions on how to burn them in for 120 hours to obtain 90% optimal sound. For $5, I'm very pleased.


----------



## subwoof3r

palestofwhite said:


> Even comes with instructions on how to burn them in for 120 hours to obtain 90% optimal sound.


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> Just received the Remax RM-301. Sound is decently good out of the box and fit reminds me of old Sony earbuds due to the unique driver cover design. Even comes with instructions on how to burn them in for 120 hours to obtain 90% optimal sound. For $5, I'm very pleased.



I have two pairs of the Remax RM-301 on the way from Fasttech.  I have never ordered from them before. They shipped Monday.  No red or black available so I ordered yellow for me and orange for @HungryPanda ,   I think Gearbest has black ones.

Are these used with foams and are they as small as they seem on screen?   My Sony HPM-64 earbuds are the only ones that I do use without foam but they have that rubberized edge.


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> I have two pairs of the Remax RM-301 on the way from Fasttech.  I have never ordered from them before. They shipped Monday.  No red or black available so I ordered yellow for me and orange for @HungryPanda ,   I think Gearbest has black ones.
> 
> Are these used with foams and are they as small as they seem on screen?   My Sony HPM-64 earbuds are the only ones that I do use without foam but they have that rubberized edge.



Smaller than MX500, they come with a pair of foams that I have to put them on, though I can see people using without them because the odd shaped edge allows the fit to be secure this way too. One thing interesting is that this is the first pair of earbuds I have that are made of hard but flexible rubber (silicone?). Only the driver cover is made of hard plastic while the rest of the body, especially the stem area can actually be bent a little. An odd choice of material because I don't know if this greatly affects the tuning.


----------



## XP_98

Do you what model of shell is used for Headroom MS16 ?
I find it as comfy as Yuin...

Is the same shell used in higher range earbuds, or even totl ?


----------



## Jsingh4

Guys I don't wanna sound sad, I come here daily for recommendations for earbuds, like everyone here i want to enjoy my music, I know for sure IEMs are not the way to go, I like earbuds, and yes I have some which I like but I still cant enjoy all my music, i haven't invested in any earbud above 50 usd because I am not sure which one to go for, I thought Smabat ST 10 is the one but then I have small ears so i am not sure if I should go for it.

kindly suggest


----------



## mbwilson111

Jsingh4 said:


> Guys I don't wanna sound sad, I come here daily for recommendations for earbuds, like everyone here i want to enjoy my music, I know for sure IEMs are not the way to go, I like earbuds, and yes I have some which I like but I still cant enjoy all my music, i haven't invested in any earbud above 50 usd because I am not sure which one to go for, I thought Smabat ST 10 is the one but then I have small ears so i am not sure if I should go for it.
> 
> kindly suggest



First, please tell us what you already have  (everyone should file in their profile info) and what you feel like you are missing out on.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Jsingh4 said:


> I thought Smabat ST 10 is the one but then I have small ears so i am not sure if I should go for it.
> kindly suggest



Smabat M1 Pro I think it is made for smaller ears


----------



## mbwilson111

Alex.Grimm said:


> Smabat M1 Pro I think it is made for smaller ears



It is, but I would first like to find out what he already has and likes or doesn't like.  It may not be necessary to spend that much.


----------



## chinmie

after Willy sent me a couple of prototypes for his new lineup (MK32 SPE, MK150, and MK300), i like his new tuning so much that i asked him would it be possible to upgrade my current Willsounds to be tuned like the new lineup. so he upgraded my old 300ohm to the new MK300's sound, also my MK1 and MK3 with the MK32' SPEs tuning. it's still slightly different than the market MK32 SPE, because that one has a new driver, while my units still use the old MK1 and MK3 drivers.. but the upgrade in sound is so noticable.

his tuning really matures a lot, his current lineup are even better than the already great older ones. the most noticable improvement is deeper bass response on the new MK300, better separation and finer mids/treble grain on the MK32, and also better depth of field/better Z axis soundstage for all of them compared to the old versions


----------



## Jsingh4 (Oct 9, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> It is, but I would first like to find out what he already has and likes or doesn't like.  It may not be necessary to spend that much.


I listen to almost everything from classical to metal, drumnbass to dubstep.
So bass should also be there as well as mids and treble should be good above all they should be enjoyable or musical.
Buds I already used
Monk+(best budget buds but that's it)
Yincrow x6 (too big for my ears)
Sr2 (great for mid centric music but not bass)
B40(not a great fit also I find them average)
Shiro Yuki(little sibilant)


----------



## mbwilson111

Jsingh4 said:


> I listen to almost everything from classical to metal, drumnbass to dubstep.
> So bass should also be there as well as mids and treble should be good above all they should be enjoyable or musical.



There are many that fit that description.  Which ones have you already tried?


----------



## Jsingh4 (Oct 9, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> There are many that fit that description.  Which ones have you already tried?


I edited my post and mentioned the buds I used already, thank you for helping out though


----------



## robar (Oct 9, 2019)

In the end NiceHCK has sent me a new B40 for free (0.1usd) as a replacement, very generous in my opinion. (I only asked for partial refund in private message, showing the crushed box and frequency measurement) Overall I can recommend the store for it's helpful customer support, just be patient and write again if necessary.


----------



## mbwilson111

robar said:


> In the end NiceHCK has sent me a new B40 for free (0.1usd) as a replacement, very generous in my opinion. (I only asked for partial refund in private message, showing the crushed box and frequency measurement) Overall I can recommend the store for it's helpful customer support, just be patient and write again if necessary.



That is great.  Be sure to let us know what you think after they arrrive.


----------



## Jsingh4

mbwilson111 said:


> There are many that fit that description.  Which ones have you already tried?


Buds I already used
Monk+(best budget buds but that's it)
Yincrow x6 (too big for my ears)
Sr2 (great for mid centric music but not bass)
B40(not a great fit also I find them average)
Shiro Yuki(little sibilant)


----------



## twiceboss

Just got time listening to ACG, god this is good. I love the mids, the clarity, the detail retrieval, the soundstage, the sound separation. One of the best purchase ive made !


----------



## chaiyuta

@ClieOS : How about feedback on Yincrow RW-1000 in China?


----------



## snowmind

robar said:


> In the end NiceHCK has sent me a new B40 for free (0.1usd) as a replacement, very generous in my opinion. (I only asked for partial refund in private message, showing the crushed box and frequency measurement) Overall I can recommend the store for it's helpful customer support, just be patient and write again if necessary.



Glad you already solved your lemon PK, got excellent support. The right side of my B40 came a little undocked, some storms happened at the factory, especially on the production line. However, I have already noticed that this does not impair sound performance, so I was not motivated to go into combat with Jim.


----------



## robar (Oct 9, 2019)

snowmind said:


> Glad you already solved your lemon PK, got excellent support. The right side of my B40 came a little undocked, some storms happened at the factory, especially on the production line. However, I have already noticed that this does not impair sound performance, so I was not motivated to go into combat with Jim.


Yes I'm happy that it went smoothly with B40. The process is much slower with my SR2, I hope I can get a partial refund for it at least. I'll take apart B40 and recycle its cable to my diy mx760, it will match perfectly in my opinion. I'll also check the diameter of shell and speaker, trying out what parts are compatible.


----------



## NStef

I believe that my ear bud quest is similar to "Jsingh4" in that I want to find one good pair.  I've read lots of reviews and followed this forum and have some ideas but keep changing my mind.  I need to get off the pot.


----------



## snowmind

robar said:


> Yes I'm happy that it went smoothly with B40. The process is much slower with my SR2, I hope I can get a partial refund for it at least. I'll take apart B40 and recycle its cable to my diy mx760, it will match perfectly in my opinion. I'll also check the diameter of shell and speaker, trying out what parts are compatible.



Please tell us the driver size (14.8 or 15.4 mm). Thanks


----------



## robar (Oct 9, 2019)

NStef said:


> I believe that my ear bud quest is similar to "Jsingh4" in that I want to find one good pair.  I've read lots of reviews and followed this forum and have some ideas but keep changing my mind.  I need to get off the pot.


I've also started fairly recently (last December) and I feel similar but this can cause a never ending search and a lot of wasted money. I think the first variable to sort out is the shell and foam type, this is where a bunch of budget buys are useful. But after that if you really want one bud that does everything well I think you should either go higher up in price (and pray) or start to EQ or DIY.  I think it's a lot easier if you divide up your needs into two different buds, one for bass and for balance. A lot of recordings today are badly mastered/compressed and you just can't get them to sound good unless you compensate with the sound signature/EQ of your equipment. Also a good source will improve your experience a LOT if you don't have one. I've paid a lot more money for budget earbuds than I planned and I don't use most of them, some of them have special use cases for me but for overall sound I don't have any single one at the moment that is satisfactory. I've just started to find a good middle ground with diy projects, I currently like this tiny cheap diy mx760 more than any other gear of mine, but this is only the start of a journey it could still be improved in a lot of respects. It's very subjective as well so what I like will not necessarily fit your needs. I started to DIY because I enjoy the process and it gives the opportunity to build something closer to my preferences and reuse/modify the buds that would go into waste otherwise.


----------



## csglinux

antdroid said:


> Just got them today and just got home to try them out a few minutes ago.
> 
> I am a tad unimpressed so far. Lacking bass, but I feel it comes back when I press on them to get better seal, so I may need to double up the foam or do some thing to get better seal. Otherwise, the build is impressive and the cable is fantastic. It sounds bright, and that's a bit annoying but that could be due to seal. I'll play around a little more or see if i can correct with EQ.


Sounds like we're having similar issues with the fit. I'm going to try @ClieOS' suggestion of donut foam, maybe combined with your suggestion of a double foam. I suspect a single donut wouldn't be enough for me, because they're a little too bright for me when naked. I need a slightly more "grippy" foam. If something like that even exists?!? Somehow need to keep a better, more consistent seal over the ear canal... I really don't want to have to resort to EQ.


----------



## antdroid

csglinux said:


> Sounds like we're having similar issues with the fit. I'm going to try @ClieOS' suggestion of donut foam, maybe combined with your suggestion of a double foam. I suspect a single donut wouldn't be enough for me, because they're a little too bright for me when naked. I need a slightly more "grippy" foam. If something like that even exists?!? Somehow need to keep a better, more consistent seal over the ear canal... I really don't want to have to resort to EQ.



Donut foam wasnt enough and also a little bright. I used donut on the inside and full foam on the outside and it's better, but I've resorted to doing two laters of a thinner foam I had from other ear buds and that seems to help out a lot. I may try to buy some silicone rings for ear buds and try that out, but only source seems to be in China via Aliexpress and I'd like to try it out before my 30 day return window expires. 

Maybe I'll see if I can find a rubber gasket or o-ring haha.

That said, a small boost to the sub-bass region via EQ seems to help out a lot for me.


----------



## NStef

robar said:


> I've also started fairly recently (last December) and I feel similar but this can cause a never ending search and a lot of wasted money. I think the first variable to sort out is the shell and foam type, this is where a bunch of budget buys are useful. But after that if you really want one bud that does everything well I think you should either go higher up in price (and pray) or start to EQ or DIY.  I think it's a lot easier if you divide up your needs into two different buds, one for bass and for balance. A lot of recordings today are badly mastered/compressed and you just can't get them to sound good unless you compensate with the sound signature/EQ of your equipment. Also a good source will improve your experience a LOT if you don't have one. I've paid a lot more money for budget earbuds than I planned and I don't use most of them, some of them have special use cases for me but for overall sound I don't have any single one at the moment that is satisfactory. I've just started to find a good middle ground with diy projects, I currently like this tiny cheap diy mx760 more than any other gear of mine, but this is only the start of a journey it could still be improved in a lot of respects. It's very subjective as well so what I like will not necessarily fit your needs. I started to DIY because I enjoy the process and it gives the opportunity to build something closer to my preferences and reuse/modify the buds that would go into waste otherwise.



Thanks for the response, robar.  The never ending search and wasted money thing is what scares me also.  It was a lot easier when you could go to a local guy and audition audio gear.  I guess that give you a clue to how old I am. 
: 0 ).  I also smile when reading the source forum because my idea of  source components are a turntable and a CD player not a DAC.


----------



## antdroid




----------



## csglinux

antdroid said:


> Donut foam wasnt enough and also a little bright. I used donut on the inside and full foam on the outside and it's better, but I've resorted to doing two laters of a thinner foam I had from other ear buds and that seems to help out a lot. I may try to buy some silicone rings for ear buds and try that out, but only source seems to be in China via Aliexpress and I'd like to try it out before my 30 day return window expires.
> 
> Maybe I'll see if I can find a rubber gasket or o-ring haha.
> 
> That said, a small boost to the sub-bass region via EQ seems to help out a lot for me.


For sure, I'll be keeping mine, but I look forward to your recommendations on rubber gaskets, etc.


----------



## classfolkphile

Please help!  

I need a good sounding pair of durable earbuds. I've bought several pairs of the Monk +, which I liked, and a pair of the Monk Copper which I liked even more. Unfortunately the caps keep coming off of the 'buds and ultimately the wires become loose or break off, leaving them useless. This has also started to happen with the $45 Shozy I now have (which I find a little too forward).

I would like something with a similar - but even more resolving and tonally accurate - sound signature to the Monks that also does not break so easily - or rather at all. (I owned the Sennheiser M985 but did not like the tonality, probably because of the rhodium plug). I do not like silver or rhodium wire/connectors. I listen to a lot of Classical and Americana/Folk/World music.

I'm willing to spend up to around $150. I've read a lot in this thread but between the number of earbuds discussed and the constant product changes, I'm pretty lost. Suggestions please?

Thanks all, in advance.
Rob


----------



## antdroid

csglinux said:


> For sure, I'll be keeping mine, but I look forward to your recommendations on rubber gaskets, etc.



Well doubling up the foam and listening to it this morning (i did let it play all night - though I dont believe in burn-in), seems to help a lot. These sound pretty good. Maybe I have adjusted back to a more DF-type tuning. Seems like the clarity and resolution of these is quite good and smooth, albeit slightly bright timbre. Bass response is definitely on the flatter side with a little roll-off (hence DF-ish tuning). It's fine for me actually, but I don't mind a +5dB subbass bump to help increase bass response.

I also just realized I ordered the 3.5mm version when I was planning on getting the 4.4mm. Oh well.


----------



## ClieOS (Oct 9, 2019)

chaiyuta said:


> @ClieOS : How about feedback on Yincrow RW-1000 in China?



So far the feedback among the Chinese seems to be fairly positive, but it is still too early to tell. I should have mine in a week or two.


----------



## XP_98

Jsingh4 said:


> Guys I don't wanna sound sad, I come here daily for recommendations for earbuds, like everyone here i want to enjoy my music, I know for sure IEMs are not the way to go, I like earbuds, and yes I have some which I like but I still cant enjoy all my music, i haven't invested in any earbud above 50 usd because I am not sure which one to go for, I thought Smabat ST 10 is the one but then I have small ears so i am not sure if I should go for it.
> 
> kindly suggest


I find Yuin shell OK for my ears, and the ST-10 a little too small (at least they don't stay well in place in my ears), if it can help...


----------



## XP_98

XP_98 said:


> Do you what model of shell is used for Headroom MS16 ?
> I find it as comfy as Yuin...
> 
> Is the same shell used in higher range earbuds, or even totl ?


No idea ?


----------



## Willber

XP_98 said:


> Do you what model of shell is used for Headroom MS16 ?
> I find it as comfy as Yuin...
> 
> Is the same shell used in higher range earbuds, or even totl ?


I too find it very comfortable but haven't seen it used by any other manufacturer. It does look similar to the HE 150PRO, though:

https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/he-150pro.html


----------



## chaosgrid

So, I ordered the Smabat M1 and they just arrived - I got to say they are too light on the bass for my taste, making them pretty bright. Mids and highs seem great but the lacking bass really takes the joy out of them for me (i.e. compared to the HE-150 Pro which I really love, small and with great bass).

I will compare them to the ST-10 later but I was hoping for the bass-extension and -amount of the ST-10 in a smaller form factor with the M1 - this does not seem to be the case 
Problem with the ST-10 I have is that they are slightly uncomfortable and at high volume, content with low bass distorts the mids/highs a little bit. But from a bass-perspective in general, the ST-10 have the best lower-bass extension+amount and I was hoping for this in the M1 as well..

Still waiting for a HE-150 Pro successor I guess, which could be the ST-10 in a smaller form factor and without the distortion issues I mentioned above. Sadly it's not the M1 it seems.


----------



## snowmind

Willber said:


> I too find it very comfortable but haven't seen it used by any other manufacturer. It does look similar to the HE 150PRO, though:
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/he-150pro.html



In my little bud collection, i always wanted to have MS16. Could you give me a brief review about the sound?


----------



## Willber

snowmind said:


> In my little bud collection, i always wanted to have MS16. Could you give me a brief review about the sound?


Fairly neutral signature with wide soundstage and decent clarity. Very good for vocals and acoustic music. I like it a lot (I have 5!) - it is my favourite of all my metal buds which cost 5x more. Comfortable, well built and great value for money, and you can get it very cheaply if you don't mind about slow delivery and minimal packaging:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32898151170.html


----------



## kingdixon

chaosgrid said:


> Problem with the ST-10 I have is that they are slightly uncomfortable and at high volume, content with low bass distorts the mids/highs a little bit



I have been crying about this problem a couple of pages back. That makes 2 of us.

Cheers


----------



## chaosgrid

kingdixon said:


> I have been crying about this problem a couple of pages back. That makes 2 of us.
> 
> Cheers



Oh wow, yeah I have never heard/read about this from somebody else but at least for my pair, it is a very noticeable issue. I'm wondering if the other guys simply just dont use the ST-10 for content with lots of low-bass (i.e. sub 50/40hz).


----------



## flamesofarctica (Oct 9, 2019)

classfolkphile said:


> Please help!
> 
> I need a good sounding pair of durable earbuds. I've bought several pairs of the Monk +, which I liked, and a pair of the Monk Copper which I liked even more. Unfortunately the caps keep coming off of the 'buds and ultimately the wires become loose or break off, leaving them useless.



I've never had a Monk+ break on me, they seem nigh on indestructible. What are you doing to these poor earbuds


----------



## robar

snowmind said:


> Please tell us the driver size (14.8 or 15.4 mm). Thanks


I opened up the B40. It has a modified PK shell, it's actually different from the SR2. The biggest difference is that B40 is deeper, it has quite extended edge where the front cover snaps on. The curves are slightly different too, B40 is slightly fatter curvier and the plastic feels higher quality. Actually I tried to put SR2 driver in B40 shell and vice versa, they are not really compatible with each other. The driver is still 14.8mm I think but the front covers are very different from each other in terms of fit. B40 can't accept regular thin 14.8mm drivers like SR2 but mx500 ones are too large so I didn't have anything that could fit on that shell or could accept the b40 drivers either.


----------



## antdroid

csglinux said:


> For sure, I'll be keeping mine, but I look forward to your recommendations on rubber gaskets, etc.



This donut + regular foam config is working well for me. These are pretty nice sounding now. Nice open and clean sound. They aren't going to rival iems for bass response quantity but have good details and nice mids and air soundstage and imaging.


----------



## classfolkphile (Oct 9, 2019)

flamesofarctica said:


> I've never had a Monk+ break on me, they seem nigh on indestructible. What are you doing to these poor earbuds



I don't know. I leave them attached to my laptop, which I carry from room to room so they bounce around a bit but I can't think that should be enough for them to come apart. Maybe it is. I've gone through at least a half dozen pairs.


----------



## flamesofarctica

classfolkphile said:


> I don't know. I leave them attached to my laptop, which I carry from room to room so they bounce around a bit but I can't think that should be enough for them to come apart. Maybe it is. I've gone through at least a half dozen pairs.



That doesn't sound a lot granted, they're pretty lightweight.


----------



## assassin10000 (Oct 10, 2019)

twiceboss said:


> Just got time listening to ACG, god this is good. I love the mids, the clarity, the detail retrieval, the soundstage, the sound separation. One of the best purchase ive made !



Exactly why I bought that 2nd pair (and why I was hesitant to sell lol). Glad you're enjoying them.



csglinux said:


> Sounds like we're having similar issues with the fit. I'm going to try @ClieOS' suggestion of donut foam, maybe combined with your suggestion of a double foam. I suspect a single donut wouldn't be enough for me, because they're a little too bright for me when naked. I need a slightly more "grippy" foam. If something like that even exists?!? Somehow need to keep a better, more consistent seal over the ear canal... I really don't want to have to resort to EQ.



I'd recommend a regular foam with donut foam over it. Pre-stretching the donut foam for a day or so on an earbud. As @antdroid found out, it may work for you as well 




XP_98 said:


> I find Yuin shell OK for my ears, and the ST-10 a little too small (at least they don't stay well in place in my ears), if it can help...



Try the above mentioned donut foam over a regular one. The extra thickness may be what you need for a good fit.




chaosgrid said:


> So, I ordered the Smabat M1 and they just arrived - I got to say they are too light on the bass for my taste, making them pretty bright. Mids and highs seem great but the lacking bass really takes the joy out of them for me (i.e. compared to the HE-150 Pro which I really love, small and with great bass).
> 
> I will compare them to the ST-10 later but I was hoping for the bass-extension and -amount of the ST-10 in a smaller form factor with the M1 - this does not seem to be the case
> Problem with the ST-10 I have is that they are slightly uncomfortable and at high volume, content with low bass distorts the mids/highs a little bit. But from a bass-perspective in general, the ST-10 have the best lower-bass extension+amount and I was hoping for this in the M1 as well..
> ...





kingdixon said:


> I have been crying about this problem a couple of pages back. That makes 2 of us.
> 
> Cheers



Hmmm. Sad to hear that about the M1. Is it just a couple db short of the ST-10 or way more lacking in both db and extension?


I typically use my ST-10 at low to medium volumes, so I may never have reached a level where there was distortion. I listen to a lot of EDM with plenty of bass.


----------



## twiceboss

assassin10000 said:


> Exactly why I bought that 2nd pair (and why I was hesitant to sell lol). Glad you're enjoying them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for selling your spare acg to me  haha


----------



## Jsingh4

Guys how is Headroom MS20, anyone?


----------



## listen4joy

*ClieOS, can you write any ranking list? there are a lot of new earbuds and no ranking at all.*


----------



## Merkurio (Oct 10, 2019)

Hello everyone!

I've been reading this thread for a long time and I even wrote once, but this time I would like to ask for a recommendation, since I see a universe of brands and models, such as in the world of IEMs/headphones.

I'm a guy of IEMs and over-ears, but for some reason I don't end up being comfortable with either (IEMs because of deep insertion and over-ears headphones for the clamping force and heat generated in the ears and headband).

I was thinking that earbuds could be an alternative for me, but I need a solid starting point to be able to make a decision. The budget is no problem and I would use them exclusively at home with my desktop DAC/AMP (Topping DX3 Pro), so I'm only looking for the best possible sound quality with durable construction and excellent comfort.

Could you please guide me?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## kingdixon

chaosgrid said:


> Oh wow, yeah I have never heard/read about this from somebody else but at least for my pair, it is a very noticeable issue. I'm wondering if the other guys simply just dont use the ST-10 for content with lots of low-bass (i.e. sub 50/40hz).



or we are most probably deaf 

I think i can survive with a lower volume, but i just can't resist raising it, the bass slam just feels so gooooood on higher volume.

i received another pair of st-10 and it is just the same, so most probably it is just how it is, unless iam so unlucky.


----------



## RobinFood

kingdixon said:


> or we are most probably deaf
> 
> I think i can survive with a lower volume, but i just can't resist raising it, the bass slam just feels so gooooood on higher volume.
> 
> i received another pair of st-10 and it is just the same, so most probably it is just how it is, unless iam so unlucky.



The rattling on the ST-10 at lower frequencies is a defect. I had the issue and exchanged them. The new one doesn't do it at all, but I had to go through the three sets to get a perfect one. At the third set I was ready to give up if it had issues though... Thankfully I ordered from Amazon so it wasn't a big deal for me.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

TY Hi-Z HP-150s or TY Hi-Z AWK-F150TS which one has more and more powerful bass and sub bass? with a great punch


----------



## twiceboss

well i keep reaching out my ACG more than iems at the office lately =.=


----------



## ClieOS

listen4joy said:


> *ClieOS, can you write any ranking list? there are a lot of new earbuds and no ranking at all.*



Not gonna happen, sorry. To do a proper ranking will took too much time and energy, which I simply don't have.


----------



## Infoseeker (Oct 10, 2019)

If you got time, then give us this year's totl suggestions then. (please)


----------



## mbwilson111

Infoseeker said:


> If you got time, then give us this year's totl then.



He talks about various models all through the thread.  If you don't want to,read all of the pages, you can use the search function to find out what he,and others have said about various models.


----------



## Jsingh4

ClieOS said:


> Not gonna happen, sorry. To do a proper ranking will took too much time and energy, which I simply don't have.


Can you do top 10


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Who can tell me about Ann N200? is it really good sound with bass or is it just a rare earphone for collectors


----------



## GREQ

Alex.Grimm said:


> Who can tell me about Ann N200? is it really good sound with bass or is it just a rare earphone for collectors


To me it sounds very warm and mid-centric, with a lot of roll-off on bass and treble. 
Detail is actually fine, but the extremely warm tuning will definitely put a lot of people off especially while A-B'ing with something V-shaped like Sabia V6, which is tonally the opposite. 
So for that reason it sounds like there is less detail, because more treble = more detail for a lot of people, which is not the case.

With the right recording or after some 'brain burn-in' it becomes a VERY smooth sound that simply can't fatigue. Unlike other warm tunings, this doesn't have bloated mid-bass, which is very refreshing. 
For this reason it works very well with treble-hot acoustic recordings when you just want to relax and not have all the 'details' forced directly into your brain.
That's why I like it for office use, as I can just wear them all day without ever feeling fatigued. 
I couldn't use these outdoors though. The lack of bass and treble becomes too vast with outside noise.

You can almost totally forget about using these for Pop and Electronic, ... bass just doesn't have the same satisfying deep-thunder we've come to expect from other buds.
But if you're using it for a while and your brain is adjusted to them, the bass doesn't sound too lacking, just soft, but still layered enough ... only when you go back to other buds you will realize what was missing below 100hz.

If the details weren't as good as they are, I would say that they're worse than most vintage buds, but I think it still holds it's own in a special niche that probably isn't for everyone.


----------



## robar

Can somebody compare Faaeal Z-sound to Qian39 for example? I'd like a small bassy earbud which fits and isolates well, similar to Qian39.  For listening to podcasts etc. while walking on the street. Might as well try the Faaeal but only if it has good not recessed mids and smooth highs. thanks


----------



## snowmind

robar said:


> I opened up the B40. It has a modified PK shell, it's actually different from the SR2. The biggest difference is that B40 is deeper, it has quite extended edge where the front cover snaps on. The curves are slightly different too, B40 is slightly fatter curvier and the plastic feels higher quality. Actually I tried to put SR2 driver in B40 shell and vice versa, they are not really compatible with each other. The driver is still 14.8mm I think but the front covers are very different from each other in terms of fit. B40 can't accept regular thin 14.8mm drivers like SR2 but mx500 ones are too large so I didn't have anything that could fit on that shell or could accept the b40 drivers either.



Thanks for the confirmation, it is proven then that the construction of the B40 is enhanced with a solid capsule.


----------



## Chris674

A moment of silence for my left E808+ driver. I killed it while attempting a cable change. Braided cable didn't fit into the shell. Should've planned better because it threw me for a loop. Mistakes were made. It alright though. I already ordered another pair


----------



## Merkurio

Merkurio said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> I've been reading this thread for a long time and I even wrote once, but this time I would like to ask for a recommendation, since I see a universe of brands and models, such as in the world of IEMs/headphones.
> 
> ...



How about the K's K600?


----------



## flamesofarctica

Merkurio said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> I've been reading this thread for a long time and I even wrote once, but this time I would like to ask for a recommendation, since I see a universe of brands and models, such as in the world of IEMs/headphones.
> 
> ...



I can understand your dislike of IEMs, and the closed hot feeling of over ear headphones, that's why I mostly use earbuds and some lightweight on ears like the Porta Pro's.

For comfort, it's quite subjective as to what size or style shells would suit you as it can vary based on ear size/shape. That's where the budget earbuds are really handy as you can try out the different styles, sizes to see what you find comfortable.

It will give you a reference point to some different sound signatures as well... and some are surprisingly decent.

Also, to help people help you, it may be worth giving a bit more info on your sound preferences and what kind of music you generally listen to.


----------



## waynes world

I wasn't getting a good seal with my beloved Svara L's (32 ohms), and they were teasing me with their greatness when I would hold them in my ears.

I then found some rubber rings that I had lying around and threw them on: 


 

The rings, combined with wearing them "down", results in a very good seal and much auditory goodness.

Tomorrow night I'm seeing Steve Hackett (original guitarist in Genesis) perform the album Selling England By The Pound (one of my favorite albums of all time). Right now I am getting psyched by listening to the original with my new-found Svara L's


----------



## ClieOS

Jsingh4 said:


> Can you do top 10



No more ranking unless my life depends on it.


----------



## Merkurio

flamesofarctica said:


> I can understand your dislike of IEMs, and the closed hot feeling of over ear headphones, that's why I mostly use earbuds and some lightweight on ears like the Porta Pro's.
> 
> For comfort, it's quite subjective as to what size or style shells would suit you as it can vary based on ear size/shape. That's where the budget earbuds are really handy as you can try out the different styles, sizes to see what you find comfortable.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your kind response!

 Actually the KSC75 was one of my favorite audio experiences because the sound quality and comfort, even after tried and bought a much more expensive gear.

 I listen a wide variety of generes, from classical, jazz and ambient to hip-hop, rock and electronic, so I'm looking for something all-rounder with nice extension in both ends and good resolution.  I know bass response on earbuds will never be the same as IEMs or headphones, but a well presented bass response would be preferable, along with clear and detailed treble without harshness.

 I'm open to suggestions, but I need a good starting point in this sea of options!


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Who has a Zeva Superfire or listened to what it sound like?


----------



## assassin10000

Merkurio said:


> I listen a wide variety of generes, from classical, jazz and ambient to hip-hop, rock and electronic, so I'm looking for something all-rounder with nice extension in both ends and good resolution.  I know bass response on earbuds will never be the same as IEMs or headphones, but a well presented bass response would be preferable, along with clear and detailed treble without harshness.
> 
> I'm open to suggestions, but I need a good starting point in this sea of options!



ST-10


----------



## HungryPanda

Pizen KP110


----------



## mbwilson111

Rose Masya


----------



## NStef

mbwilson111 said:


> Rose Masya



Masya is one I've been trying to convince myself to buy.  My main pause is if it will fit right.  The other one I'm thinking about is Shozy BK.  

I agree with Merkurio, there is too much to choose from.


----------



## mbwilson111

NStef said:


> Masya is one I've been trying to convince myself to buy.  My main pause is if it will fit right.  The other one I'm thinking about is Shozy BK.
> 
> I agree with Merkurio, there is too much to choose from.



I know, I actually bought my Masya from someone who was unable to get a fit.  Luckily I had already tried the one belonging to my husband so I knew that it would fit me.


----------



## seanc6441

antdroid said:


> Donut foam wasnt enough and also a little bright. I used donut on the inside and full foam on the outside and it's better, but I've resorted to doing two laters of a thinner foam I had from other ear buds and that seems to help out a lot. I may try to buy some silicone rings for ear buds and try that out, but only source seems to be in China via Aliexpress and I'd like to try it out before my 30 day return window expires.
> 
> Maybe I'll see if I can find a rubber gasket or o-ring haha.
> 
> That said, a small boost to the sub-bass region via EQ seems to help out a lot for me.


If you can purchase the 1mm double sided tape from aliexpress you could attach a cut out layer of thinner but dense full foam to the front face of the driver cover (think of it as a headphone tuning foam disk) and then apply a full or donut foam on top.

This way you get more treble reduction without sacrificing the fit of using too large a diameter with double foams.

I personally think adding too much foam can compromise the seal and effect the bass and mids but that would depend on the individuals ear anatomy.


----------



## Merkurio

NStef said:


> Masya is one I've been trying to convince myself to buy.  My main pause is if it will fit right.  The other one I'm thinking about is Shozy BK.
> 
> I agree with Merkurio, there is too much to choose from.



On the other side, the ST-10 caught my attention, but I vastly prefer the traditional cable placement downwards instead of behind the ear (not because comfort issues, but for convenience and quick placement).

Any other options?

As I said before, cost is no object.


----------



## Infoseeker (Oct 12, 2019)

If cost is no option, I wonder how the Simphonio Dragons 2+ hold up to 2019 models. Amazing sound stage and mids, but non fatiguing highs.

But that soundstage is its strong point.


----------



## dharmasteve

Merkurio said:


> On the other side, the ST-10 caught my attention, but I vastly prefer the traditional cable placement downwards instead of behind the ear (not because comfort issues, but for convenience and quick placement).
> 
> Any other options?
> 
> As I said before, cost is no object.



Rose Masya Mk2 (for some unknown reason known as the Rose Masya Pro) is a superior bud.


----------



## chinmie

Merkurio said:


> Thanks for your kind response!
> 
> Actually the KSC75 was one of my favorite audio experiences because the sound quality and comfort, even after tried and bought a much more expensive gear.
> 
> ...





Merkurio said:


> On the other side, the ST-10 caught my attention, but I vastly prefer the traditional cable placement downwards instead of behind the ear (not because comfort issues, but for convenience and quick placement).
> 
> Any other options?
> 
> As I said before, cost is no object.



you could always use the ST-10 downward by swapping the left and right unit. i don't know about the ST-10 sound though..haven't heard it. if the KSC75 is your preference, try the Edifier H185 first, it's inexpensive and have similar sound. if price is no object, the Liebesleid and the SWD2+ are also similar to the KSC75, but in my opinion with much better SQ and resolution.


----------



## ClieOS

dharmasteve said:


> ...(for some unknown reason known as the Rose Masya Pro)...



...because at one point of time, Rose used both terms interchangeably.


----------



## Merkurio

Thank you all for your recommendations!

Reading the thread from top to bottom, I found that high impedance earbuds give a similar sound impression to open over-ears, which is precisely what I am looking for (since I will only use them at home, with my desktop amplifier).

How do those high impedance earbuds (Toneking TO600, K's K600, etc.) compare with the usual suspects you have been recommending me? (ST-10, Masya, etc.)


----------



## HungryPanda

I have K's K600 sounds closest to my Sennheiser HD650 and is in a normal monk type shell. I also have the Toneking TO600 and it is a fine earbud too which is a small metal shell but also worn down


----------



## cqtek

Has anyone tried the OURART QJ21? I would like to know how earbuds of more than 200€ sound. Will it have a good low area or will it be in the line of their little brothers?


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 12, 2019)

Merkurio said:


> Thank you all for your recommendations!
> 
> Reading the thread from top to bottom, I found that high impedance earbuds give a similar sound impression to open over-ears, which is precisely what I am looking for (since I will only use them at home, with my desktop amplifier).
> 
> How do those high impedance earbuds (Toneking TO600, K's K600, etc.) compare with the usual suspects you have been recommending me? (ST-10, Masya, etc.)


I wouldn't rule out low impedance buds for that reason, there are many low impedance buds that present that way also.

It's just in some peoples experience that high impedance buds have a more flat frequency response but that's not always the case.

High impedance buds will obviously be a better choice for desk amps though or power enough portable amps.

If I was you i would keep an eye out on the new outart earbud to be released. The ti7 has the open, headphone-like presentation that you would be after but lacks in the bass impact.

If this new premium version is an upgrade on the TI7/ACG it will be a huge hit.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2958#post-15161957


----------



## seanc6441

cqtek said:


> Has anyone tried the OURART QJ21? I would like to know how earbuds of more than 200€ sound. Will it have a good low area or will it be in the line of their little brothers?


Impatiently awaiting for clieOS' verdict on this one when he gets it.

If it solves the low end and keeps the ti7 mids quality with just a bit more treble it will be a legend!


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> Impatiently awaiting for clieOS' verdict on this one when he gets it.
> 
> If it solves the low end and keeps the ti7 mids quality with just a bit more treble it will be a legend!



Hopefully I'll get mine by the end of next week, otherwise it will be the following week.


----------



## bonson (Oct 12, 2019)

chinmie said:


> after Willy sent me a couple of prototypes for his new lineup (MK32 SPE, MK150, and MK300), i like his new tuning so much that i asked him would it be possible to upgrade my current Willsounds to be tuned like the new lineup. so he upgraded my old 300ohm to the new MK300's sound, also my MK1 and MK3 with the MK32' SPEs tuning. it's still slightly different than the market MK32 SPE, because that one has a new driver, while my units still use the old MK1 and MK3 drivers.. but the upgrade in sound is so noticable.
> 
> his tuning really matures a lot, his current lineup are even better than the already great older ones. the most noticable improvement is deeper bass response on the new MK300, better separation and finer mids/treble grain on the MK32, and also better depth of field/better Z axis soundstage for all of them compared to the old versions




 
Mk1 8 braids. Mk2 standard and Mk2 mmcx
I ended up buying the new mk2 NV on Rholupat as it s the signature i prefer from the mk lineup. Mk2 NV is described as flat natural and brighter on the site. (Never tried mk3).
From your description i wonder if i should not have better  bought the mk32. But i wonder if mk32 signature is more similar to the  mk1 signature.


----------



## theresanarc

Anything new to come out in the past few months in the budget range that has a smaller diameter shell (Qian39/Monk Lite or PK2 type shell for example)?

Also are those silver Fengruu buds still one of the better ones for a brighter/clearer soundstage?


----------



## robar (Oct 12, 2019)

theresanarc said:


> Anything new to come out in the past few months in the budget range that has a smaller diameter shell (Qian39/Monk Lite or PK2 type shell for example)?
> 
> Also are those silver Fengruu buds still one of the better ones for a brighter/clearer soundstage?


for small shell: NiceHCK B40, but it can be a bit fat for certain ears. Plus I've tried out a diy mx760 set few days ago and I'm quite impressed with it, you can buy it for 5usd but you need to get a cable separately and solder the thing. The shell is small just slightly larger than qian39. Also I've read about Remax 301 here recently, maybe worth a check too. I'm personally interested in Faaeal Z-sound, still waiting for some impressions ; )
I had Fengru Silver for a brief period, I wasn't that impressed to be honest the lower mids were very recessed, which rendered the vocals thin and brittle. Bass and highs are ok but not outstanding, the shell is very slippery and the cable is very short. It could have sounded better with some mods but the driver fell apart when I opened the shell. I much prefer Qian69 which has similar bass and highs while the mids are fuller with wider soundstage and the shell is very comfortable.


----------



## assassin10000

robar said:


> for small shell: NiceHCK B40, but it can be a bit fat for certain ears.



Nah. The B40 is almost the same as a MX500 shell. Its 16.7mm vs 16.8mm. Most smaller PK shells are 16.1mm


I'm not aware of any new budget options for small diameter size shells. Non-budget there is the M1 pro.


----------



## brianforever

palestofwhite said:


> I had the original one about over 10 years ago and I still quite miss it till this day. So when I found out the KSC75X came in black, I knew I just have to own it again.



Before KSC75..There was the amazing and extremely rare SE900MV


----------



## robar

assassin10000 said:


> Nah. The B40 is almost the same as a MX500 shell. Its 16.7mm vs 16.8mm. Most smaller PK shells are 16.1mm
> 
> 
> I'm not aware of any new budget options for small diameter size shells. Non-budget there is the M1 pro.


I wasn't aware that small shell equals front cover diameter.… It still sits more securely in my ears than an mx500 shell and the stem is half as big. But I agree it's not the most comfortable option out there.


----------



## assassin10000

robar said:


> I wasn't aware that small shell equals front cover diameter.… It still sits more securely in my ears than an mx500 shell and the stem is half as big. But I agree it's not the most comfortable option out there.



Well, not just the diameter. The thickness or depth makes a difference too.


----------



## Willber

theresanarc said:


> Anything new to come out in the past few months in the budget range that has a smaller diameter shell (Qian39/Monk Lite or PK2 type shell for example)?


Yes, the Mixx Tribute. About the same size as the Qian39/Monk Lite but much better sounding than both. £4 in Asda over here, I got three of them. My current favourites.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> Yes, the Mixx Tribute. About the same size as the Qian39/Monk Lite but much better sounding than both. £4 in Asda over here, I got three of them. My current favourites.



Yay!  Glad we mentioned them.  It was an impulse buy.  We have 3 colors between us.  Started out with the grey for him and the black for me.  I picked up a gold one a few days later when we were buying food.

Definitely surprised by these.


----------



## Willber (Oct 12, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Yay!  Glad we mentioned them.  It was an impulse buy.  We have 3 colors between us.  Started out with the grey for him and the black for me.  I picked up a gold one a few days later when we were buying food.
> 
> Definitely surprised by these.


Silver (space grey!), rose gold and purple for me. I'll probably get the other three. Good recommendation, I credited you a few pages back.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 12, 2019)

Willber said:


> Silver (space grey!), rose gold and purple for me. I'll probably get the other three. Good recommendation, I credited you some a few pages back.



No other colors available at our Asda..only the ones we have.

Envious that you found purple.


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> No other colors available at our Asda..only the ones we have.
> 
> Envious that you found purple.


That's a shame, the purple is nice.

Actually, I'd better go back tomorrow in case they sell out of the other colours...


----------



## chinmie

bonson said:


> Mk1 8 braids. Mk2 standard and Mk2 mmcx
> I ended up buying the new mk2 NV on Rholupat as it s the signature i prefer from the mk lineup. Mk2 NV is described as flat natural and brighter on the site. (Never tried mk3).
> From your description i wonder if i should not have better  bought the mk32. But i wonder if mk32 signature is more similar to the  mk1 signature.



if MK1 is more lowbass and midbass dominant, and MK2 is more V shaped lowbass and treble dominant, then the MK3 is more balanced with more forward treble. 

the MK32 is in between the MK3 and MK1, tilted more to MK3. it's more similar to the MK3, but has a bit of more bass boost, and better z axis depth than all previous MK

I'd say if you have the MK3, than though there's improvement, it may or may not be worth it to buy, depending on the person.


----------



## Mhog55

Quick question -
I'm using the **** Bk2, and for the price, they really aren't that bad. The fit with full foams for me is about perfect (14.8mm).
I'm looking to order another bud next week, but can't make a decision. I think I've just excepted that earbuds are a roll the dice, buy and try type of ordeal, but I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction. 
I'm looking at the BGVP DX5, Smabat M1 Pro, or one of the Ourart buds. 
Fit is most important, and I want to wear them wire down. All of these are 14.2mm I believe. Secondly, the one issue I have with the Bk2 is that snare and kick drums sound a bit like paper. I'd also like a touch better separation, and a little deeper / wider Soundstage. Can anyone make a suggestion as to which of the above listed earbuds might be best for me?


----------



## antdroid (Oct 13, 2019)

Moondrop Chaconne


----------



## Alex.Grimm

chinmie said:


> the MK32 is in between the MK3 and MK1, tilted more to MK3. it's more similar to the MK3
> 
> I'd say if you have the MK3, than though there's improvement, it may or may not be worth it to buy, depending on the person.



I have all 3, I don’t like MK3, I really like MK2, so-so MK1.  MK32 will not surprise me?


----------



## chinmie

Alex.Grimm said:


> I have all 3, I don’t like MK3, I really like MK2, so-so MK1.  MK32 will not surprise me?



no. i think you're good


----------



## bonson

@chinmie Thanks,  never tried mk3, next time i order, i will choose mk32 instead.


----------



## mbwilson111

antdroid said:


>



I wish everyone would label their photos.  I have not memorized the look or names for every bud.  Surely I am  not the only one.  Nice photo though... of whatever it is.


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> I wish everyone would label their photos.  I have not memorized the look or names for every bud.  Surely I am  not the only one.  Nice photo though... of whatever it is.



Looks like the new Moondrop Chaconne...


----------



## RobinFood

Tonight I took out the Smabat ST-10 again after not listening to them for about two weeks.

I've been busy and was pretty much only listening to my true wireless units because I didn't really have time to deal with a cable. I know it doesn't sound like much but when you only have 5-10 minutes the time to uncoil and coil counts.

I was blown away again like the first time. They have such a unique way of showing the soundstage. Every instrument seems to have a buffer of dark space between them that makes it infinitely easier to focus on each separate part. The sub=bass is boosted giving a healthy sub-woofer-esque boom feeling to low instruments. I want to say that they are like watching a concert from far away, on a balcony in a concert hall, but that is only if I think with my eyes. It is really more like being right up to the stage and hearing the guitar coming from a totally different direction than the bassist who is standing on the other side of the room.

The only other time I experienced this type of unique soundstage is with the ATH-CKR series earbuds, which were my introduction to high(er)-fi audi. I had the ATH-CRK70 and loved them to death until my wife took them when her mistreated MDR-X50BS bit the bullet. They had the exact same feeling of black space between all the different sounds. The difference is that instead of a sub-bass boom emphasis they had more of an upper-mids bias which made female j-pop singers shine like nothing else.

Sorry if it's just rambling, but I am so happy to have these in my collection, and it feels good to give them some ear time tonight!


----------



## ValSilva

Anybody saw this? Datura Pro pre-order:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000234719620.html


----------



## mbwilson111

ValSilva said:


> Anybody saw this? Datura Pro pre-order:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000234719620.html



Wow. I love every Faaeal bud that I have.   I would wait for a sale price though.


----------



## antdroid

mbwilson111 said:


> I wish everyone would label their photos.  I have not memorized the look or names for every bud.  Surely I am  not the only one.  Nice photo though... of whatever it is.



Added a label. Sorry.


----------



## 40760

Shozy B.K and Cygnus should be back in the next few days from RMA... I'm surprised how the Kube V1 manage to fill the void all these weeks and still remains my go-to earbuds.


----------



## mochill

Shiro Yuki is beautiful sounding


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> Yes, the Mixx Tribute. About the same size as the Qian39/Monk Lite but much better sounding than both. £4 in Asda over here, I got three of them. My current favourites.



We went back to our Asda yesterday, hoping that maybe they had stocked the other colors (purple, blue, white)... but no, just space grey, black and rose gold available still.  @HungryPanda picked up an extra black one to experiment with recabling.  I already had a black one.

Came home and the project was mostly successful.  These MIXX TRIBUTEs are fragile.  That bottom part of the stem breaks easily.  So, one pair has a bit of tape holding it.   This pair (mine) is intact...looks great with this white twist cable.  I plan to be careful though when handling the stems.  Usually I pull down firmly while holding the stem when fitting other earbuds.  Because this one has such a small shell, I can fit it while still being gentle with it.

You can see there is plenty of room to put a twisted cable through.  Inside it uses clips, not a knot.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

mbwilson111 said:


> We went back to our Asda yesterday, hoping that maybe they had stocked the other colors (purple, blue, white)... but no, just space grey, black and rose gold available still.



Asda delivers only in the UK?


----------



## mbwilson111

Alex.Grimm said:


> Asda delivers only in the UK?



I could not figure out how to even make it deliver to me.  I thought I could order the other colors that I wanted but as soon as I put in my postcode the product just disappeared from my options.  So I am limited to what my local store has in stock.  My husband hopes to check a different store when he is in another town.

Asda delivery seems to be more for  people doing their grocery shopping.

I don't even know why they are selling them for £4 when retail price is £12.


----------



## mbwilson111

I now have a really nice looking cable on my inexpensive Philips SHE3800.   There was a problem though and I cannot recommend that people recable this one.  The drivers were destroyed in the process AND a couple of replacement drivers were also destroyed.  @HungryPanda can explain it better but it has something to do with the shell cover making the drivers fall apart when you open it.

here are two working drivers in it now... and it sounds amazing.  The drivers are from a batch of old reclaimed drivers that even the seller did not know what they were from originally.   We call them the Mystery drivers.  Does that make this the Philips Mystery?  Luckily I do have another SHE3800 and I hope nothing happens to it.  I do really like the sound from the stock drivers also.

I have no idea if we can find genuine SHE3800s still.  Does anyone know?  I had used a UK ebay seller a couple of years ago... paid £5 for each at the time.  Same shell as an Edifier H180.  For those who are unfamiliar with the 3800, it has nothing to do with the Philips company that you think of when you think of light bulbs but they do some other iems and buds.


----------



## HungryPanda

I went to Maidstone in Kent today and raided the Asda store, grabbed a bunch of Mixx Tributes. 2 x purple, 2x blue, 1 black and 1 white. Sound great to my ears.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

HungryPanda said:


> I went to Maidstone in Kent today and raided the Asda store, grabbed a bunch of Mixx Tributes. 2 x purple, 2x blue, 1 black and 1 white. Sound great to my ears.



What earbuds does a similar sound look like?  how much bass?


----------



## snowmind

Faaeal Iris 1.0 or 2.0, which is better?


----------



## HungryPanda

Alex.Grimm said:


> What earbuds does a similar sound look like?  how much bass?


 They come without foams but put them on and they have wonderful bass. Good soundstage and all for an amazing £4


----------



## mbwilson111

Alex.Grimm said:


> What earbuds does a similar sound look like?  how much bass?





HungryPanda said:


> They come without foams but put them on and they have wonderful bass. Good soundstage and all for an amazing £4



I have not figured out what the MIXX Tribute might be similar to.  Maybe @Willber has some ideas?  All I know is that I am surprised by the sound of these.  Obviously the build is a weak point and it has a mic.  I normally avoid mics but it might be a plus for some.

Love the purple and luckily I had some purple foams on hand.  I actually liked the sound without foams but the foams do make them more comfy and increase the bass... and, mine are purple!  I  still don't understand why Asda is able to sell them for £4 when the MIXX site and Amazon charge £12.

Thanks to @HungryPanda for checking out the Maidstone Asda after he finished his business in town.  I don't think we would have paid the train fare just to go get these


----------



## twiceboss

mbwilson111 said:


> I have not figured out what the MIXX Tribute might be similar to.  Maybe @Willber has some ideas?  All I know is that I am surprised by the sound of these.  Obviously the build is a weak point and it has a mic.  I normally avoid mics but it might be a plus for some.
> 
> Love the purple and luckily I had some purple foams on hand.  I actually liked the sound without foams but the foams do make them more comfy and increase the bass... and, mine are purple!  I  still don't understand why Asda is able to sell them for £4 when the MIXX site and Amazon charge £12.
> 
> Thanks to @HungryPanda for checking out the Maidstone Asda after he finished his business in town.  I don't think we would have paid the train fare just to go get these


+1 for the color


----------



## Viajero

I've always used IEMs and thought that the sound quality of earbuds simply couldn't compare, but I've been hearing that that isn't the case. I would like to try a decent quality earbud in the $15 to $60 sort of range. I prefer a large soundstage, good bass speed and definition with decent rumble and slam, and fairly balanced tonality but maybe a little warm or U shaped, along with respectable clarity and resolution. Do you fine folk have any earbuds to recommend me?


----------



## Infoseeker (Oct 15, 2019)

Viajero said:


> I've always used IEMs and thought that the sound quality of earbuds simply couldn't compare, but I've been hearing that that isn't the case. I would like to try a decent quality earbud in the $15 to $60 sort of range. I prefer a large soundstage, good bass speed and definition with decent rumble and slam, and fairly balanced tonality but maybe a little warm or U shaped, along with respectable clarity and resolution. Do you fine folk have any earbuds to recommend me?




Generally they won't have as good bass. That is where the donut foams come in, they can create a seal.

But the rest of the spectrum can easilly compare to iems.

Oh, earbuds do excel in psycho acoustics. The stereo effects in some songs. Way better in earbuds than iems.


----------



## waynes world (Oct 15, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> I went to Maidstone in Kent today and raided the Asda store, grabbed a bunch of Mixx Tributes. 2 x purple, 2x blue, 1 black and 1 white. Sound great to my ears.





HungryPanda said:


> They come without foams but put them on and they have wonderful bass. Good soundstage and all for an amazing £4



I found them on amazon.ca for $40CAD, so it seems like you got a great deal!

Edit: also found them on amazon.co.uk for $22CAD, so that's at least better.


----------



## subwoof3r (Oct 16, 2019)

I finally received today (after almost a month of wait) my *DIY PK2 Docomo* style from Chitty's store.
This is probably one of my best earbuds surprise from this year!


_(picture from chitty's store)_

They sound extremely good for the price, I would say it sounds better than up to ~80$.
It's a bit in the bright side but enough control to have a long listen period.
These are clearly original PK2 drivers. I dismantled them and already modded them a bit. When I removed the drivers, there was some slight glue, but easy to remove. The residues are also easy to remove with some patience. The only issue is that the black porous grids from the drivers were glued on the plastic shells so I had to remove the grids completely using precision tweezers to perfect the work. After that I changed the standard and poor quality soldering tin balls from the drivers and cable to put some WBT-0800 (as usual with all my mods) for better and more durable conductivity. I added some thin white cotton tuning in the read of each drivers and made some final checks/inspections from the internal shells and reassembled them perfectly. They sound now even slightly better than stock. I'm impressed.
The cable is made of basic silver plated (not much cores but its ok for the price (and no need to change it for an upgrade, especially for 32 ohm).
Those Docomo shells are really something, there is a lot to experiment for DIY fun, that I will of course do later. I'm planning to upgrade them with original PK1 150 ohm red film drivers and make some fine shells tune with different porous medical tapes to see how it goes, because there is still an annoying peak around 16kHz to tame.
For for those who don't have DIY talent, stock sound will be already excellent for most of us.
Highly recommended from me  and thanks for the recommendation @mbwilson111  & @HungryPanda !


----------



## groucho69

subwoof3r said:


> I finally received today (after almost a month of wait) my *DIY PK2 Docomo* style from Chitty's store.
> This is probably one of my best earbuds surprise from this year!
> 
> 
> ...



WBT-0800, great stuff


----------



## Viajero

Infoseeker said:


> Generally they won't have as good bass. That is where the donut foams come in, they can create a seal.
> 
> But the rest of the spectrum can easilly compare to iems.
> 
> Oh, earbuds do excel in psycho acoustics. The stereo effects in some songs. Way better in earbuds than iems.[/QUOT



Thanks for your response.

Do you guys think that my LG V40 would be able to satisfactorily drive the Toneking TO200 or TO600?


----------



## robar (Oct 15, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> I finally received today (after almost a month of wait) my *DIY PK2 Docomo* style from Chitty's store.
> This is probably one of my best earbuds surprise from this year!
> 
> They sound extremely good for the price, I would say it sounds better than up to ~80$.
> ...


Sounds really nice, I was thinking about these few months ago. So they use these drivers? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32969609452.html I may order these in the future to put something in my empty SR2 shells for example.
Also may I ask about that 21khz peak, is it a mistype or you really hear that range? If I can remember correctly I can hear up to 18khz so it's pretty strange for me to read about a peak way above that.


----------



## groucho69

robar said:


> Sounds really nice, I was thinking about these few months ago. So they use these drivers? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32969609452.html I may order these in the future to put something in my empty SR2 shells for example.
> Also may I ask about that 21khz peak, is it a mistype or you really hear that range? If I can remember correctly I can hear up to 18khz so it's pretty strange for me to read about a peak way above that.



More like this I think https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32825866251.html?


----------



## robar (Oct 15, 2019)

groucho69 said:


> More like this I think https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32825866251.html?


Thanks I know about 150ohm red film drivers but I was interested in the original drivers in the earbuds he reviewed. From pics in the listing they look exactly the same as those pk2 drivers I linked from cklewis store. Which are really cheap basically 10 bucks for five pairs, quite a value if they can sound that good.


----------



## ClieOS

An exceptional impressive TWS setup: M1 Pro with TRN BT20s


----------



## Viajero

ClieOS said:


> An exceptional impressive TWS setup: M1 Pro with TRN BT20s


Looks really good together. How does the M1 Pro compare to the ST-10 and the Toneking TO600?


----------



## ClieOS

Viajero said:


> Looks really good together. How does the M1 Pro compare to the ST-10 and the Toneking TO600?



M1 Pro vs ST10: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3000#post-15209152

Don't have TO600, so can't say.


----------



## Infoseeker

Viajero said:


> Thanks for your response.
> 
> Do you guys think that my LG V40 would be able to satisfactorily drive the Toneking TO200 or TO600?



Their sensitivity helps, and the Lg quad dacs have 2vrms at 300 ohms (~13mw).

Definitely can drive them.


----------



## ClieOS

Just saw DQSM Turandot on Aliexpress, around $200 with discount. To those looking for a flagship earbud, I can recommend this one wholeheartedly.


----------



## Infoseeker (Oct 16, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> Just saw DQSM Turandot on Aliexpress, around $200 with discount. To those looking for a flagship earbud, I can recommend this one wholeheartedly.



If I have a Simphonio Dragon 2+ is this equivalent? Even has the same Yuin casing model.

(My Simphonio is more U shaped with a speaker style airiness)


----------



## oneula

putting together my 11/11 wish list with the following:

K's K600
Astrotec Lyra
Rose Masya
Rose Mojito 3D
DQSM Turandot
Audiosense T800

I I had to narrow it down to one or two because of the cost eve with 11/11 prices
which one would it be?

The Turandot or the T800?


----------



## Viajero

Infoseeker said:


> Their sensitivity helps, and the Lg quad dacs have 2vrms at 300 ohms (~13mw).
> 
> Definitely can drive them.


That's good news. Thanks. Now I just need to decide which earbud to get. I haven't been following the earbud scene, so it's a lot to read up on.


----------



## Viajero

ClieOS said:


> M1 Pro vs ST10: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3000#post-15209152
> 
> Don't have TO600, so can't say.


Thank you for that. Seems like a great pair of earbuds for the price.


----------



## rkw

Infoseeker said:


> If I have a Simphonio Dragon 2+ is this equivalent? Even has the same Yuin casing model.


Same shape, but the Turandot shell is metal with 13.5mm Carbon Nanotube Dynamic driver. The Simphonio Dragon 2+ has a plastic shell with 15.8mm Dynamic Neodymium magnet driver. Both the shell and driver are different and they are not equivalent.


----------



## ClieOS

Infoseeker said:


> If I have a Simphonio Dragon 2+ is this equivalent? Even has the same Yuin casing model.



I am not at home now to compare them directly, but I'll say I do prefer Turandot just slightly ahead of D2+.


----------



## ClieOS (Oct 16, 2019)

oneula said:


> putting together my 11/11 wish list with the following:
> 
> K's K600
> Astrotec Lyra
> ...



Skip Lyra unless you can find it at least 30% off (50% off would make it a pretty good deal), you can thank me later.


----------



## KevDzn

subwoof3r said:


> I finally received today (after almost a month of wait) my *DIY PK2 Docomo* style from Chitty's store.
> This is probably one of my best earbuds surprise from this year!



Yeah, those Docomos are more than decent earbuds. The Black version are are more audiophile while the white ones has more mid bass.
Not sure if its due to different drivers or just more damper on the the whites. But both sounds great.


----------



## RobinFood

Is there any background noise or a persistent hiss? Have your tried the bt20s with the st-10?


----------



## ClieOS

RobinFood said:


> Is there any background noise or a persistent hiss? Have your tried the bt20s with the st-10?



No hiss with either M1 Pro or ST-10 on BT20s


----------



## subwoof3r (Oct 16, 2019)

robar said:


> Sounds really nice, I was thinking about these few months ago. So they use these drivers? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32969609452.html I may order these in the future to put something in my empty SR2 shells for example.
> Also may I ask about that 21khz peak, is it a mistype or you really hear that range? If I can remember correctly I can hear up to 18khz so it's pretty strange for me to read about a peak way above that.


You were right, mistake from me but the peak is around *16k* (and not 21 as initially said), sorry 
I think this is the right drivers used but not sure thought. Physically they looks the same.


----------



## subwoof3r

KevDzn said:


> Yeah, those Docomos are more than decent earbuds. The Black version are are more audiophile while the white ones has more mid bass.
> Not sure if its due to different drivers or just more damper on the the whites. But both sounds great.


I think it's more a fine tune about drivers or completely other drivers swap (or from silver plated to OFC cable swap, maybe) because the docomo shells have nothing extraordinary (from first sight), they use standard MX500 shoes cotton (damper?) tuning on the behind stock holes which have extremely low porous air to pass. But I will remedy about that soon 
Btw, I forgot to say that for a normal use, PK1/2 drivers snaps already well (not by much) on those docomo shells, so for DIY tries, this is perfect (no need to use glue if care enough).


----------



## RobinFood

Looks like I just made another audio purchase :S


----------



## mbwilson111

subwoof3r said:


> because there is still an annoying peak around 16kHz to tame.



Annoying peak at 16kHZ?   I wonder how long it has been since I could hear 16kHZ.






Don't worry... even those at the bottom of the chart can enjoy music.  The red is the fundamental tones.  The yellow is the harmonics.


----------



## caracal (Oct 16, 2019)

Got my Fengru Silver a few days ago, and I really like it!
Especially with some dark blue foams (which doesn't seem so dark on the photo)
Sound is good, idk bout the recessed mids, but it sounds great on my mx4 pro.


----------



## mbwilson111

I need help from @Willber and @HungryPanda to explain why these MIXX Tribute earbuds are so addictive.  When I use them I don't feel like I need to change to anything else.  I only wish they were built better but for £4 I will just make sure I have spares.  I already posted photos of my recabled black one and m y purple one.   Here is my rose gold one although I would not really call it "rose" gold... and the bottom half of the stem and the cable are beige.  Super comfy.


----------



## robar

caracal said:


> Got my Fengru Silver a few days ago, and I really like it!
> Especially with some dark blue foams (which doesn't seem so dark on the photo)
> Sound is good, idk bout the recessed mids, but it sounds great on my mx4 pro.


I guess you referenced my comment about the mids of fengru silver. First I'm happy that you like the bud it's indeed nice for the price. Not the whole midrange is recessed - the lower half dipped quite heavily with my unit, and the upper mids got a strong presence. This made the vocals especially thin, which is not my preference. I measured it as well and it showed the same profile I heard subjectively, I attach it as an illustration. Here you can see it in comparison with RY4S UE, which is somewhat bright but still quite flat for an earbud (just slowly tilted upwards), all of my preferred earbuds have similar flatness in the 300-2k range just more balanced between bass and highs. Also I attach a comparison with my new white vido which is the most v-shaped bud I have and this Silver had even more dip in the middle. (There is little hump around 250hz that's the resonance of my setup please disregard it, I noted it with red.


----------



## Chris674

mbwilson111 said:


> I need help from @Willber and @HungryPanda to explain why these MIXX Tribute earbuds are so addictive.  When I use them I don't feel like I need to change to anything else.  I only wish they were built better but for £4 I will just make sure I have spares.  I already posted photos of my recabled black one and m y purple one.   Here is my rose gold one although I would not really call it "rose" gold... and the bottom half of the stem and the cable are beige.  Super comfy.


I'm going to need some clarification on this one. You have access to many well respected buds and these are the ones that you'd prefer to listen to? We don't have any $4 deals on them in the US. There's a Bluetooth version available for $26 or I can order from Amazon UK for $17.50 with shipping. Is it still worth it at that price?


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> I need help from @Willber and @HungryPanda to explain why these MIXX Tribute earbuds are so addictive.  When I use them I don't feel like I need to change to anything else.  I only wish they were built better but for £4 I will just make sure I have spares.  I already posted photos of my recabled black one and m y purple one.   Here is my rose gold one although I would not really call it "rose" gold... and the bottom half of the stem and the cable are beige.  Super comfy.


I totally agree and soon I shall post some more words and hopefully pictures.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 16, 2019)

Chris674 said:


> I'm going to need some clarification on this one. You have access to many well respected buds and these are the ones that you'd prefer to listen to? We don't have any $4 deals on them in the US. There's a Bluetooth version available for $26 or I can order from Amazon UK for $17.50 with shipping. Is it still worth it at that price?



No  don't do that.  The build quality is not great.  There is a weakness with the bottom half of that stem.  When my husband recabled a black set for each of us, those parts cracked and he has taped them.  He thinks he may have put too much pressure when he was opening the shell.    Also there is a mic which can be a weak point.... I always choose  no mic versions if available.

The retail price according to the MIXX Audio site is £12

oh wait... I guess the amazon deal is not that bad.... I was thinking pounds.

@Chris674

Edit... thinking about the price.  If I had seen the Asda display and the price had been £12,  I might have been curious enough to try one... especially knowing that returns are possible if it had sounded horrible.   It is an attractive display with all the colors.  However, if I had paid £12, while thinking it was a fair enough price,  I probably would not have gone back to buy other colors and spares.

If you do order one from Amazon at least you can return it if it arrives damaged or defective.  So far all the ones we have opened work and are in phase.


----------



## HungryPanda

I was enjoying the Mixx Tribute with full foam yesterday and then tried quite a few earbuds that were within reach, none were giving me the same magic till I put the Smabat ST-10 in my ears. Then I relaxed and sat happy with those (much better). Ones I had tried before them were BGVP DX3s, DIY PK2, Ty Hi-Z, Colorad C01 and Snow Lotus 2.0


----------



## flamesofarctica

Amongst all the new earbuds flying around, sometimes it's easy to forget some of the exceptional finds you've picked up along the way.

Spent a bit of time with my TY Hi-Z HP320 on the XDUOO X20 the last couple of days. This was one of my favorite earbuds when I got it, and still an awesome listen especially for classic rock and pop. Just a lot greener in the cable!


----------



## HungryPanda

yes getting greener by the day still sounding great though


----------



## flamesofarctica

HungryPanda said:


> yes getting greener by the day still sounding great though



Wow... mine is a good way there, iceberg lettuce compared to your full on Savoy cabbage


----------



## robar (Oct 16, 2019)

I noticed there is a new earbud in RY store, if somebody is interested: RY4C MMCX. I didn't like the original wired one but some of you did, also this may sound better. The shell is more comfortable than mx500. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000254369007.html
Btw, could anyone compare Faaeal Z-sound to more known earbuds in the budget range like Vido, RY4S, Qian39 etc?


----------



## chinerino

Just received the NICEHCK B40..... quite disappointed with the sound though........


----------



## robar (Oct 17, 2019)

chinerino said:


> Just received the NICEHCK B40..... quite disappointed with the sound though........


can you describe how it sounds? I received one few weeks ago which had literally no bass and barely average mids/highs, probably a lemon. I contacted the seller and they sent me a replacement. I havent received it yet but I hope it will sound better (it should based on the reviews)


----------



## fressi2110

robar said:


> can you describe how it sounds? I received one few weeks ago which had literally no bass and barely average mids/highs, probably a lemon. I contacted the seller and they sent me a replacement. I havent received it yet but I hope it will sound better (it should based on the reviews)


i has listened B40 for a while, the sound is warm, bass is quite deep, mid and treb don't impressive me too much, but you can change cable to overcome disadvantages


----------



## ClieOS

If you don't get any bass from any earbud, you need to make sure you are getting a good fit. Foam usually helps.


----------



## chinerino

It is not fantastic? The bass is probably the only thing that is good but it kinda bleeds into mids, highs are just really rolled off


----------



## citral23

Yay or nay? https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/4000269584655.html


----------



## grayfedora

Looking to upgrade my Panda PK2 to the Smabat ST-10, was wondering about the fit. I have the RY4S but the MX500 shells are not compatible with my ears at all, they are way too big(something stings.. literally). Panda PK2 is a tad too small, but fits pretty well with foam. Where does the ST-10 fit into this equation?


----------



## HungryPanda

ST-10 is very comfortable to me and worn over ear which makes them more stable


----------



## robar

ClieOS said:


> If you don't get any bass from any earbud, you need to make sure you are getting a good fit. Foam usually helps.


I'm well aware of this I have many kinds of foam and I tested the B40 side by side with other earbuds wearing the same foam. I also measured the frequency response that I also posted here and sent to the seller. I'm sure my copy was a lemon as it had a "bass" response similar to random sub 1usd earbuds - anemic from 200hz and inaudible from 100hz downwards. I opened up and put it back together, checked the tuning foam, replaced cables but no improvement, so the drivers should have been damaged. Luckily the store sent me a replacement I hope it will be a normal unit this time


----------



## ClieOS

robar said:


> I'm well aware of this I have many kinds of foam and I tested the B40 side by side with other earbuds wearing the same foam. I also measured the frequency response that I also posted here and sent to the seller. I'm sure my copy was a lemon as it had a "bass" response similar to random sub 1usd earbuds - anemic from 200hz and inaudible from 100hz downwards. I opened up and put it back together, checked the tuning foam, replaced cables but no improvement, so the drivers should have been damaged. Luckily the store sent me a replacement I hope it will be a normal unit this time



Didn't recall seeing any B40 measurement in this thread, but here is mine (diffuse field compensated):




 

While bass starts to roll off below 300Hz, it does extend all the way down to around 30~40Hz before it drops below the 1kHz line. A bass light sound for sure, especially if you are coming from a bass heavy sound, but it is there.


----------



## assassin10000

grayfedora said:


> Looking to upgrade my Panda PK2 to the Smabat ST-10, was wondering about the fit. I have the RY4S but the MX500 shells are not compatible with my ears at all, they are way too big(something stings.. literally). Panda PK2 is a tad too small, but fits pretty well with foam. Where does the ST-10 fit into this equation?



I have small ears and prefer the pk shell myself. Many mx500 size earbuds don't fit me as well for long listening sessions.

That being said, the ST-10 is the most comfortable 16.8mm dia earbud I've tried. Due to it's 'thin' shape before the rear housing it tucks in my ears pretty well. Since it's worn over ear it doesn't pull down into the tragus/anti-tragus which also helps.


----------



## robar (Oct 18, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> Didn't recall seeing any B40 measurement in this thread, but here is mine (diffuse field compensated):
> 
> 
> 
> While bass starts to roll off below 300Hz, it does extend all the way down to around 30~40Hz before it drops below the 1kHz line. A bass light sound for sure, especially if you are coming from a bass heavy sound, but it is there.


I don't really follow your logic here, you use a measurement method with exaggerates bass (be it a compensation curve which decreases the upper half, strong smoothing and/or perfect seal which never occurs in real life) and then you check relative levels by drawing a horizontal line? Because the whole curve has a downward sloping distortion the baseline should be curved too, I hope you get what I try to say. I mean come on  if you really take this curve at face value than 100hz is 5dB louder than 1khz and the whole upper section is recessed compared to upper bass for example which would mean this earbud is an incredibly dark boomy muddy bass monster, which is cleary isnt the case, it's more like the opposite. So I really dont understand why you read this measurement as if it was a raw uncompensated reading with a rig which simulates a real life scenario, when it's clearly not, the baseline should be follow the bias of the measurement. I can recommend these articles for clarification:
https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/tutorials/how-to-interpret-graphs/frequency-response/
https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/tutorials/how-to-interpret-graphs/smoothing-compensation/
https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/tutorials/how-to-interpret-graphs/3rd-party-plots/
Btw I always use fairly balanced earbuds for reference like Qian69 which is very far from a bass heavy sound signature, and based on reviews there shouldn't be a night and day difference like it is with my copy. My unit was very thin with nonexistent bass even compared to Qian69


----------



## dharmasteve (Oct 18, 2019)

I hadn't listened to my Ourart ACG for a few days. Had put a Nicehck 16 core red and white mixed MMCX cable on them and listened to the Tupac track , Ambitionz Az a Ridah, and Nitin Sawhney's, Anthem Without Nation. Very interesting. Anyone who thinks the ACG does not have much bass is mistaken. Although they do fit exceptional well in my ears and make a good seal, the bass is very much there. They are a very special bud and if you get the chance try them.





It's just mythology that buds don't have bass. Listening on a FiiO M9 and a Samsung S9 Exynos plus phone.


----------



## waynes world

robar said:


> Btw I always use fairly balanced earbuds for reference like Qian69 which is very far from a bass heavy sound signature, and based on reviews there shouldn't be a night and day difference like it is with my copy. My unit was very thin with nonexistent bass even compared to Qian69



With a good seal, bass is there with the B40's, but as ClieOS says, on the lighter side. A bit of bass boost EQ gets them sounding very good to me. But nonexistent bass? Nope - yours do sound like lemons.


----------



## seanc6441

grayfedora said:


> Looking to upgrade my Panda PK2 to the Smabat ST-10, was wondering about the fit. I have the RY4S but the MX500 shells are not compatible with my ears at all, they are way too big(something stings.. literally). Panda PK2 is a tad too small, but fits pretty well with foam. Where does the ST-10 fit into this equation?


Smabat M1? Don't buy the ST-10 if MX500 diameter hurts your ears. You are asking for trouble if that's the case.


----------



## robar (Oct 18, 2019)

waynes world said:


> With a good seal, bass is there with the B40's, but as ClieOS says, on the lighter side. A bit of bass boost EQ gets them sounding very good to me. But nonexistent bass? Nope - yours do sound like lemons.


I really hope this is the case, this bass lightness consensus of B40 is new to me. Maybe its not that far off from a normal unit than I thought, but someone should really hate bass to call my particular units balanced sounding. It starts to roll off around 250hz for real, while the highs are over represented relative to the midrange, no depth to the music at all. I would say my unit in the 20-125hz range is about 5-6dB below from the signature I would call balanced for an average budget earbud, especially below 100hz. My current reference (which is a balanced retuning of RY4S UE work in progress) has 7-8dB more bass around 30hz, which starts to resemble the low bass response of good quality balanced/bright budget headphones.


----------



## oneula

decided to pick u p another Willsound MK2 but in MMCX and a Willsound MK32 in 8 braid JVC

Any experience with the MK32 verus the MK2 MMCX
I saw a couple older reviews  here


----------



## FastAndClean

dharmasteve said:


> I hadn't listened to my Ourart ACG for a few days. Had put a Nicehck 16 core red and white mixed MMCX cable on them and listened to the Tupac track , Ambitionz Az a Ridah, and Nitin Sawhney's, Anthem Without Nation. Very interesting. Anyone who thinks the ACG does not have much bass is mistaken. Although they do fit exceptional well in my ears and make a good seal, the bass is very much there. They are a very special bud and if you get the chance try them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



they are a bit lacking in the sub bass but mid bass is there, the bass is very tight and fast, very similar to BA woofer


----------



## Mhog55

oneula said:


> decided to pick u p another Willsound MK2 but in MMCX and a Willsound MK32 in 8 braid JVC
> 
> Any experience with the MK32 verus the MK2 MMCX
> I saw a couple older reviews  here


May I ask where you found the MK2 with detachable cable? Thx


----------



## robar

@seanc6441 If I remember correctly you modded RY4S UE in the past. Do you think it uses EMX500 drivers? Because I opened mine few days ago and by the looks they are exactly the same as EMX500 drivers sold at aliexpress. I actually wait for a pair of those so I'll be able to compare them in a few weeks but I'm interested in your opinion.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 18, 2019)

robar said:


> @seanc6441 If I remember correctly you modded RY4S UE in the past. Do you think it uses EMX500 drivers? Because I opened mine few days ago and by the looks they are exactly the same as EMX500 drivers sold at aliexpress. I actually wait for a pair of those so I'll be able to compare them in a few weeks but I'm interested in your opinion.


Most mx500 drivers look similar and a lot of them have similar peaks/dips but no i dont think the emx500 and ry4s drivers are exactly the same. The emx500 is a smoother sound but has a non offensive upper mid-treble emphasis over the low mids. I think the emx500 has a boost around 2khz and upwards but it's a wide peak, the ry4s has some sharp peaks around 4khz-6khz that is a bit too abrasive. The bass is more bloomy on the emx500 but that's the stock tuning, the ry4s can sound more bassy with deeper bass than the emx500 if modded in my experience, closer to Vido bass levels. Emx500 is more mid bass heavy with a bit of sub bass extension. Ry4s definitely has more potential bass wise, but that's partly because it has a dip aroubd 200-300hz which sort of separates the bass and mids at the cost of some bassy instruments not sounding quiet right or full enough.

Given a choice I'd probably choose the emx500 as the ry4s is quite fatiguing with a more forward but rougher vocal quality, although I don't like U shaped tuning much to be honest, the emx500 is a more pleasant listen and suits more genres as the staging is more open and FR is undoubtedly smoother.

But for anyone who favours good midrange tonality and balance I don't think either of these earbuds will excell, especially not the r4ys UE.


----------



## ClieOS (Oct 18, 2019)

robar said:


> I don't really follow your logic here, you use a measurement method with exaggerates bass (be it a compensation curve which decreases the upper half, strong smoothing and/or perfect seal which never occurs in real life) and then you check relative levels by drawing a horizontal line? Because the whole curve has a downward sloping distortion the baseline should be curved too, I hope you get what I try to say. I mean come on  if you really take this curve at face value than 100hz is 5dB louder than 1khz and the whole upper section is recessed compared to upper bass for example which would mean this earbud is an incredibly dark boomy muddy bass monster, which is cleary isnt the case, it's more like the opposite. So I really dont understand why you read this measurement as if it was a raw uncompensated reading with a rig which simulates a real life scenario, when it's clearly not, the baseline should be follow the bias of the measurement. I can recommend these articles for clarification:
> https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/tutorials/how-to-interpret-graphs/frequency-response/
> https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/tutorials/how-to-interpret-graphs/smoothing-compensation/
> https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/tutorials/how-to-interpret-graphs/3rd-party-plots/
> Btw I always use fairly balanced earbuds for reference like Qian69 which is very far from a bass heavy sound signature, and based on reviews there shouldn't be a night and day difference like it is with my copy. My unit was very thin with nonexistent bass even compared to Qian69



While my rig is composted mostly as simple DIY equipment, it has been calibrated with a B&K IEC711 type coupler to make sure it has decent accuracy - When measuring earbuds with a IEC711 coupler, the FR curve will not look nearly as flat as an IEM or a full sized cans. This is due to the fact that earbuds are naturally much more 'leaky' than IEM and cans in the ears than they are on the measuring rig. If you don't know that, that's perhaps because you don't see enough earbuds measurement around that are done with IEC711 coupler. In fact, my old earbuds measurements line-up very well with the measurements of the same earbuds done by innerfidelity.com (while Tyll was still there), and they use a pro-level B&K dummy head for measurement that is far more accurate that what I can do. So perhaps it is not my measurement that is the problem but the way you interpret them.

p/s: Interestingly enough, one of the link you posted talking about how to manually compensate when reading graphs from different source - I reckon you can do just the same for my graph as with innerfidelity.com since we both compensated with B&K's standard.


----------



## snowmind

@robar 

If you feel harmed with the new B40, you will have a total of three PK lemon buds in your hands. Is it enough for you to go to war with the man who designed and adjusted these buds?


----------



## oneula

Mhog55 said:


> May I ask where you found the MK2 with detachable cable? Thx




here you go
in black and white

http://www.rholupat.com/willsound-buds


----------



## robar (Oct 18, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> Most mx500 drivers look similar and a lot of them have similar peaks/dips but no i dont think the emx500 and ry4s drivers are exactly the same. The emx500 is a smoother sound but has a non offensive upper mid-treble emphasis over the low mids. The bass is more bloomy on the emx500 but that's the stock tuning, the ry4s can sound more bassy with deeper bass than the emx500 if modded in my experience, closer to Vido bass levels. Emx500 is more mid bass heavy with a bit of sub bass extension.
> 
> Given a choice I'd probably choose the emx500 as the ry4s is quite fatiguing with a more forward but rougher vocal quality, although I don't like U shaped tuning much to be honest, the emx500 is a more pleasant listen and suits more genres as the staging is more open.
> 
> But for anyone who favours good midrange tonality and balance I don't think either of these earbuds will excell, especially not the r4ys UE.


I think it's more of a tuning thing. I can differentiate drivers quite well visually and these look the same even to the smallest details (of course the inner parts could be different but emx500 drivers has a quite distinctive look). I actually put the RY4S UE drivers in different shells with different tuning foams and they reacted very well to tuning. In a white vido shell for example they become like a white vido on steroids. Now I use them in a y-cable blue vido shell which has thick foam (probably slightly less dense than stock ry4s ue tuning) and originally sounded roughly flat. With this tuning the RY4S UE  drivers become extremely balanced compared to original, the thin bright nature is completely vanished and the bass got a additional depth/boost. Essentially it flattened out the upwards slope. I really didn't like the mids in the original version similar to your experiences but now vocals are full and rich, The upper highs around 8-10k are still a bit too intense for my taste but overall this is a killer combination I was quite shocked actually how a simple re-balance can change the sound for the better. I'll put the EMX500 and RY4S UE drivers in the same shell and measure them to verify my theory, I'm quite positive what you hear is just the difference between tuning foams/shells.



ClieOS said:


> While my rig is composted mostly as simple DIY equipment, it has been calibrated with a B&K IEC711 type coupler to make sure it has decent accuracy - When measuring earbuds with a IEC711 coupler, the FR curve will not look nearly as flat as an IEM or a full sized cans. This is due to the fact that earbuds are naturally much more 'leaky' than IEM and cans in the ears than they are on the measuring rig. If you don't know that, that's perhaps because you don't see enough earbuds measurement around that are done with IEC711 coupler. In fact, my old earbuds measurements line-up very well with the measurements of the same earbuds done by innerfidelity.com (while Tyll was still there), and they use a pro-level B&K dummy head for measurement that is far more accurate that what I can do. So perhaps it is not my measurement that is the problem but the way you interpret them.



I wasn't questioning the technical accuracy of your measurements, I believe they are very good quality and I can recognize the landmarks if I mentally decode the altered curve. What I tried to point out is that your kind of measurement doesn't represent what an earbud sounds like in a natural leaky position, (especially in the bass section) but you described it like if it did so, which I found misleading - I would be very surprised to hear an earbud which sounds balanced and at the same time has the same level of 30hz and 1khz. Especially if its bass light like B40.  Also I'm aware that Tyll's measurements decrease the frequencies above 1khz, which can be quite misleading for people who are not aware of the fact, and my main problem is that it hides/smoothes peaks in the section above 1khz, this is why I linked this article too, which decodes his measurements too for example. https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/tutorials/how-to-interpret-graphs/3rd-party-plots/  I didn't want to create an argument, so sorry if I overreacted a bit, I just want to clarify things.



snowmind said:


> @robar
> 
> If you feel harmed with the new B40, you will have a total of three PK lemon buds in your hands. Is it enough for you to go to war with the man who designed and adjusted these buds?


I'm not sure what do you mean. I had an SR2 which is I'm 100% sure was totally completely faulty - it was unmistakable -, and it died anyway when I tried to open up and fix it. But I got half of the price back from which I bought diy parts so I'm content. I can accept that B40 is inherently bass light and my unit is just a lemon with even less than usual. While I hope the replacement will be better, I won't bother anyone further with this, it just doesn't worth each others time or money.


----------



## dharmasteve

FastAndClean said:


> they are a bit lacking in the sub bass but mid bass is there, the bass is very tight and fast, very similar to BA woofer





Anyone with Ourart ACG listen and tell me and compare with other buds for sub bass.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 18, 2019)

palestofwhite said:


> Just received the Remax RM-301. Sound is decently good out of the box and fit reminds me of old Sony earbuds due to the unique driver cover design. Even comes with instructions on how to burn them in for 120 hours to obtain 90% optimal sound. For $5, I'm very pleased.



I was excited when ours arrived... loved the colors.... but then we listened to them.  @HungryPanda s orange one is out of phase.   My yellow one sounds horrible so far but I will do the burn in.  Hooked up to my desktop amp now where it will stay for a week... except when I want to actually listen to something at my desk.  Then I will have to plug in something else for a while.  I think it might be impossible for me to get a seal with these.  They sound almost ok if I press them really hard with two fingers.








palestofwhite said:


> Smaller than MX500, they come with a pair of foams that I have to put them on, though I can see people using without them because the odd shaped edge allows the fit to be secure this way too. One thing interesting is that this is the first pair of earbuds I have that are made of hard but flexible rubber (silicone?). Only the driver cover is made of hard plastic while the rest of the body, especially the stem area can actually be bent a little. An odd choice of material because I don't know if this greatly affects the tuning.



They may be smaller than an MX500 but something about the shape does not let them fit me well.  I can wear buds with MX500 shell because I can get a seal.   Also PK buds and others.  I have a photo here of my Remax RM-301 next to my NiceHCK B40.  I am trying to show in this photo how much bigger the front is on the Remax.  Also I think the thin flat body is one reason I am not getting seal.  I put nice yellow foams on these.  I really want them to work.

I will have to contact the seller about the out of phase orange one.


----------



## digititus

dharmasteve said:


> Anyone with Ourart ACG listen and tell me and compare with other buds for sub bass.



Some Basic Chanel love


----------



## Mhog55

oneula said:


> here you go
> in black and white
> 
> http://www.rholupat.com/willsound-buds


Thank you


----------



## oneula

Mhog55 said:


> Thank you



you're welcome 
they're good buds
lived and worked by UW (evergreen state) from 74-89


----------



## Jsingh4 (Oct 19, 2019)

So today I was playing with my Faaeal z-sound, I ordered it mostly because of it's tiny shape.


It has an average mids and highs good lows but it always sounded congested so I tried to do some modding and the first thing I did was to take off horse shoe tunning cotton, and just by that it sounded better then I decided to poke some holes as I still felt congested sound, at the end poked 3 holes on the shell, first on the back top then back center and also on the stem, that's it and it sounds great now, enjoyable and very speaker like feeling. Also I am wearing it upside down it sounds awesome anyone who has it I would definitely recommend this mod


----------



## ClieOS

Guys, please resize your photos before posting.


----------



## Jsingh4

ClieOS said:


> Guys, please resize your photos before posting.


Sorry It seemed fine on the phone, I now have edited it.


----------



## seanc6441

Uploading as 'thumbnail' usually helps. Of course if you are trying to show off some nice pics you'd want to upload full size.


----------



## CriminalCrimson (Oct 19, 2019)

Hi all. I need recomendations for classic earbuds with the following:

1.- Mic and volume control
2.- Chi-Fi
3.- Better than VE Monk, Headroom MS16 (my current earbuds)
4.- No foams or wireless, only classic earbuds
5,. around 20 and 50$
6.- Brand doesnt matter.

Thank you!


----------



## seanc6441

CriminalCrimson said:


> Hi all. I need recomendations for classic earbuds with the following:
> 
> 1.- Mic and volume control
> 2.- Chi-Fi
> ...


Why no foams? Personal choice or a fit/comfort issue?

No foams narrows down the choices of buds to non fatiguing bassy earbuds because most earbuds are designed to be used with foams of some kind for the right tonal balance.


----------



## 40760

CriminalCrimson said:


> Hi all. I need recomendations for classic earbuds with the following:
> 
> 1.- Mic and volume control
> 2.- Chi-Fi
> ...



The sort of only earbuds I know that are supposedly created to be worn without foams are the VE Zen 2.0 which are way above your budget.

I've had a few pairs of them in the past, but foams are a must for earbuds to stay in my ears, hence I used with them.


----------



## Infoseeker (Oct 20, 2019)

Anyone use a silicone ring for fit?  Those work?

Also the Faael Datura Pro preorder someone linked order seems to be for foamless. Or they just want to show off the casing? I'm guessing it is just the pictures don't show the foams on purpose?


----------



## mbwilson111

Infoseeker said:


> Anyone use a silicone ring for fit?  Those work?
> 
> Also the Faael Datura Pro preorder someone linked order seems to be for foamless. Or they just want to show off the casing? I'm guessing it is just the pictures don't show the foams on purpose?



Exactly.   They want to show off the casing.  I have never seen buds on product pages showing the foams but they always include foams in the package.   Some sellers even install them on the bud before sending.  I love when they do that... saves me time.

One reason I take photos with the foams on is because I always take my photos after I have listened to them.  If you knew how long it takes me to get the foams on, then you would understand why I don't take them off for the photo.

With foams, almost all buds sound better and fit better.

I have tried the rings when they are included with some buds but those always ruin the sound for me.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 20, 2019)

"I’m looking to add a pair of earbuds to my collection, and wanted a more high end option (looking to spend around $300). I mainly listen to hiphop, rock and electronic so I want something that offers a natural yet visceral sound signature with deeper than average bass (I know it won’t go as deep as iems due to the nature of the design) any suggestions would be greatly appreciated"

This was commented to me elsewhere but I thought asking here would be best. Any suggestions?

@ClieOS  any of the new TOTL arrivals fit that description?


----------



## JPardo

Hello!  I am new but I have been following this thread for some time.  First of all, I want to thank you for all your opinions, advice and evidence. After much reading, one ends up learning a lot about sound and earbuds.  I currently have Fengru DIY EMX500, DIY SR2 16ohms, Nicehck B40 and Willsound MK2 VJC.

I would like to know what you think about the 1more e1008.  It isn't a very commented earbud and there aren't many analyzes or opinions about it.  From what I've read, in its price range when it was launched it was not the best option but now for about 30/40€ it could be an interesting option.  Someone who has them could give me an opinion of them, especially considering the earbuds that I already own.

I’m also following the new smabat M1 pro and BGVP DX5 smabat. I look forward to more reviews and comparisons.


----------



## mbwilson111

JPardo said:


> I would like to know what you think about the 1more e1008. It isn't a very commented earbud and there aren't many analyzes or opinions about it. From what I've read, in its price range when it was launched it was not the best option but now for about 30/40€ it could be an interesting option. Someone who has them could give me an opinion of them, especially considering the earbuds that I already own.



I have the IMORE E1008.  All I can say right now is that it is excellent.  Give me a couple of days and I will get back to you.  I will say it is a bit large and I had to put foams on top of the silicone covers... otherwise the foams slide around.... and I do need foams for fit and comfort.


----------



## cqtek

Hello to all.

I have just published the review of one of the best built and packaged earbuds, its sound is not left behind either.

This is my humble opinion about the BGVP DX5:


 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/bgvp-dx5.24004/reviews#review-22800


----------



## CriminalCrimson

palestofwhite said:


> The sort of only earbuds I know that are supposedly created to be worn without foams are the VE Zen 2.0 which are way above your budget.
> 
> I've had a few pairs of them in the past, but foams are a must for earbuds to stay in my ears, hence I used with them.



Hmm i dont use foams, those headphones will be only for use at office work, so i dont need any noise cancelling.
Yes, Zen 2.0 seems great but is expensive, any other options? For work right now im using Headroom MS16


----------



## RobinFood

CriminalCrimson said:


> Hmm i dont use foams, those headphones will be only for use at office work, so i dont need any noise cancelling.
> Yes, Zen 2.0 seems great but is expensive, any other options? For work right now im using Headroom MS16



Foams don't cancel any sound coming in if that is what you are concerned about, they mostly allow the earbud to fit in your ear in the right way.

I use my headroom MS16 with foam too, they have a joke in the back and you can hear everything going on in the real world. Same for most other earbuds with foam.


----------



## CriminalCrimson

RobinFood said:


> Foams don't cancel any sound coming in if that is what you are concerned about, they mostly allow the earbud to fit in your ear in the right way.
> 
> I use my headroom MS16 with foam too, they have a joke in the back and you can hear everything going on in the real world. Same for most other earbuds with foam.



Well i typed bad, i mean, i dont use this on my headphones:


----------



## mbwilson111

CriminalCrimson said:


> Well i typed bad, i mean, i dont use this on my headphones:



Those have nothing to do with earbuds.  Those are for IEMs


----------



## RobinFood

CriminalCrimson said:


> Well i typed bad, i mean, i dont use this on my headphones:



When talking about earbuds foam people are talking about the little sponge pancake we use as socks for our earbuds. Here is an example...


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 20, 2019)

CriminalCrimson said:


> Hmm i dont use foams, those headphones will be only for use at office work, so i dont need any noise cancelling.
> Yes, Zen 2.0 seems great but is expensive, any other options? For work right now im using Headroom MS16


This would be a very very nice starter earbud for you http://www.rholupat.com/willsound-buds/willsound-mk2-nv.html

You won't regret buying a Willsound mk2. Best earbud to use as a basis for other earbuds too because it has nice bass impact, pretty good refinement in mids and highs and a good sense of soundstage.

Or if you want an MMCX earbud there is the MK2 MMCX (no cable) version on the same site under Willsound buds section.


----------



## JPardo

mbwilson111 said:


> I have the IMORE E1008.  All I can say right now is that it is excellent.  Give me a couple of days and I will get back to you.  I will say it is a bit large and I had to put foams on top of the silicone covers... otherwise the foams slide around.... and I do need foams for fit and comfort.



Thank you for your opinion. I will be attentive to your enlargement when you refresh the sound. At least I know I will not be disappointed at that price.


----------



## HeadlessChicken

My wallet has fallen victim to this:
https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=45

Let the fun begin.


----------



## ClieOS

Reecho RC One
Yincrow RW-1000
OurArt QJ21


----------



## citral23 (Oct 21, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> Reecho RC One
> Yincrow RW-1000
> OurArt QJ21



Can you post a review of the OurArt? You must be the only person on Earth to have it lol.

Can't find anything online about the yincrow, where did you get it?

(Edit : found it on Chinese sites only for now. Extremely interested, please tell us what you think of it)


----------



## chaiyuta

@ClieOS : Regardless of price, Among SMABAT ST-10, Yincorw RW-1000 and Ourart QJ21, which one is your most upper hand?


----------



## cqtek

citral23 said:


> Can you post a review of the OurArt? You must be the only person on Earth to have it lol.
> 
> Can't find anything online about the yincrow, where did you get it?
> 
> (Edit : found it on Chinese sites only for now. Extremely interested, please tell us what you think of it)



It is possible that this week I will receive it...I will do review


----------



## ClieOS

citral23 said:


> Can you post a review of the OurArt? You must be the only person on Earth to have it lol.
> 
> Can't find anything online about the yincrow, where did you get it?
> 
> (Edit : found it on Chinese sites only for now. Extremely interested, please tell us what you think of it)



RW-1000 was only released in China just over a week ago, so it will take time for it to make it to the international market. I usually get my earbuds directly from the maker's Taobao store, thus faster.



chaiyuta said:


> @ClieOS : Regardless of price, Among SMABAT ST-10, Yincorw RW-1000 and Ourart QJ21, which one is your most upper hand?



Can't say in certain at this point, as I only have an hour or so of listening on both RE-1000 and QJ21. What can be said is that both are fairly good, as in the upper echelon of earbuds.


----------



## mynamekok

11.11 nearly come and I have 2 earbud in my mind 
Ourart QJ21 
DQSM Turandot
Which one is better !!!!!


----------



## chinerino

ClieOS said:


> RW-1000 was only released in China just over a week ago, so it will take time for it to make it to the international market. I usually get my earbuds directly from the maker's Taobao store, thus faster.
> 
> 
> 
> Can't say in certain at this point, as I only have an hour or so of listening on both RE-1000 and QJ21. What can be said is that both are fairly good, as in the upper echelon of earbuds.


just curious, if can, could you compare rw-9 with the 1000? i know that there is a huge jump in price but just wanna know the marginal gains


----------



## snowmind

With the perforated foam, the sound of the B40 is more airy, with more detail. With the foam full the sound is veiled, did you notice that?


----------



## mbwilson111

snowmind said:


> With the perforated foam, the sound of the B40 is more airy, with more detail. With the foam full the sound is veiled, did you notice that?



That is why some people do prefer donut foams.  If you are enjoying them like that, then that is what is right for your hearing.    

Personally I am happy with full foams.   I am unable to use donut foams because they always slide out of place for me.  Probably when I wiggle the earpiece into position in my ear.

the only buds that I use with no foams are my recabled Sony HPM-64s.  They have a rubber edge that is part of the shell and are small enough to stuff into my ear opening with a good seal.  I have never even tried foams on them because I am happy with them as they are.  Also, as you are experiencing with the B40, the Sony would probably become veiled.

I do not find the sound on the B40 to be veiled but that is with my pair (fully burned in) and my ears.  No one can tell you what is best for you.


----------



## ClieOS (Oct 22, 2019)

chinerino said:


> just curious, if can, could you compare rw-9 with the 1000? i know that there is a huge jump in price but just wanna know the marginal gains



RW-9 is noticeably more mid-centric with a sweet if not slightly thick vocal and otherwise smooth / rounded off ends at both side of the frequency response. RW-1000 is clean sounding, close to neutral if not just very very mildly U-shaped and well extended The first thing you will notice between the two is the RW-1000 is much grander in presentation, with much bigger soundstage and image. There is also a lot more detail as well, especially on the treble region. While it is bright, I won't go as far as calling it hot or edgy. Bass quantity and quality is about neutral, and I only calling it 'very mildly U-shaped' because RW-1000 doesn't have a particularly sweet / intimate vocal, but it isn't particularly hallow either. Actually using full foam will give RW-1000 a much needed sweetness over vocal, but my general preference is donut foam for a crispier sound. As far as overall SQ is concerned, I don't think RW-9 is anywhere near RW-1000's level. RW-9 is close a mid-tier, where RW-1000 is somewhere around a second to first tier.


----------



## Narayan23

snowmind said:


> With the perforated foam, the sound of the B40 is more airy, with more detail. With the foam full the sound is veiled, did you notice that?



No veil at all for me with full foams, I really like the B40 and reading some negative or completely different opinions to what I experience with them, leaves me a bit baffled. They are less bright sounding than the RY4S UE although the latter have a bass I´m infatuated with (I´d say the RY4S UE is a very good movie earbud since it gives dialogues and shots / explosions the clarity and heft they need). The Snow Lotus 2.0 are pretty well balanced but I find them less lively than the B40 and that damn cable gets in the way of my enjoying them, I can´t seem to get a proper fit. Finally, the B40 have made me realise that lifeless and sterile = the **** **** sound, I´ve tried to like them, used different tips, but alas we weren´t meant for one and other and I´ll give them away.

A tip of the hat to ClieOS and a petition to him to do more collaborations, thinking what he could do given more budget has my Mojo flowing.


----------



## snowmind

mbwilson111 said:


> That is why some people do prefer donut foams.  If you are enjoying them like that, then that is what is right for your hearing.
> 
> Personally I am happy with full foams.   I am unable to use donut foams because they always slide out of place for me.  Probably when I wiggle the earpiece into position in my ear.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your words. For most people, the B40 has a natural, well-tuned sound, nothing is missing, it's all there.

However, i would like to understand an evaluation of the Audiofool. The man goes into battle against the B40 saying he is lousy in treble: https://audiofool.reviews/2019/10/02/nicehck-b40/


----------



## waynes world

snowmind said:


> However, i would like to understand an evaluation of the Audiofool. The man goes into battle against the B40 saying he is lousy in treble: https://audiofool.reviews/2019/10/02/nicehck-b40/



He/she also says that the B40's bass is more potent than the ME80's bass. Not my experience.


----------



## snowmind

waynes world said:


> He/she also says that the B40's bass is more potent than the ME80's bass. Not my experience.



Exactly, i don't observe coherence about that either. We all know that each person has an ear type, signature sound they prefer, but this assessment of the site seems distorted from reality.

Maybe he has a lemon B40?


----------



## dharmasteve

snowmind said:


> Thank you for your words. For most people, the B40 has a natural, well-tuned sound, nothing is missing, it's all there.
> 
> However, i would like to understand an evaluation of the Audiofool. The man goes into battle against the B40 saying he is lousy in treble: https://audiofool.reviews/2019/10/02/nicehck-b40/



I think,  from what I see on this thread, quality control is not great on cheaper ear buds.  My own B40s are really good,  not far behind much more expensive buds.  So they can be really good.  But I have had a bad version of the Monks,  a really poor KZ,  a fake Sony and another couple of bad ones from a while back. We may be talking a high percentage of cheaper buds.


----------



## snowmind

dharmasteve said:


> I think,  from what I see on this thread, quality control is not great on cheaper ear buds.  My own B40s are really good,  not far behind much more expensive buds.  So they can be really good.  But I have had a bad version of the Monks,  a really poor KZ,  a fake Sony and another couple of bad ones from a while back. We may be talking a high percentage of cheaper buds.



I probably believe there is a bias to that. Jim Nicehck must face problems of lack of quality control in the factory, especially in the cheapest buds. Maybe that explains this weird review.


----------



## robar

snowmind said:


> Exactly, i don't observe coherence about that either. We all know that each person has an ear type, signature sound they prefer, but this assessment of the site seems distorted from reality.
> 
> Maybe he has a lemon B40?


If I understand the review correctly, he listens to these earbuds without any foam. If this is true indeed that would make these reviews even more “interesting”. I also don't understand his complaint about lack of strain reliefs


----------



## citral23

snowmind said:


> Thank you for your words. For most people, the B40 has a natural, well-tuned sound, nothing is missing, it's all there.
> 
> However, i would like to understand an evaluation of the Audiofool. The man goes into battle against the B40 saying he is lousy in treble: https://audiofool.reviews/2019/10/02/nicehck-b40/



People hear different things, he finds the EBX neutral, and detailed without becoming harsh, while I personally can't use them on albums that are even slightly too forward in mids/treble my ears literally bleed (but they are great on albums that have a very soft sound)


----------



## cqtek

Ourart QJ21: In two words .... Wooooowwwwww!!!


----------



## rkw

cqtek said:


> Ourart QJ21: In two words .... Wooooowwwwww!!!


Someone mentioned it before. This can't be a coincidence.


----------



## csglinux

Here's a brief comparison of the Moondrop Chaconnes vs the Shozy BK Stardust earbuds:


 

I'm using @antdroid's suggestion of donut foams over the top of full foams on the Chaconnes. (My Shozy BKs are just using single donut foams.) I like @antdroid's double-foam trick for the Chaconnes, but it still doesn't entirely resolve the fit issue for me.  Here are some pros/cons of the Chaconnes:

*Pros:*
One of the best-sounding earbuds I've ever heard. In fact, I think I'd say it is my favorite-sounding earbud so far. Overall, I think I even prefer it to the Shozy BKs, which have otherwise been my favorites for years. They have a slightly more natural timbre to my ears and a smoother-sounding treble. (They don't have that hole that the Shozy BKs have around 8-9 kHz.)

*Cons:*
Even with double foams, they have a little less sub-bass than the Shozy BKs. One word of caution about these graphs though. I measured these using a 711 coupler with an earbud canal extender. My setup won't match your ears, and, very likely, neither would a full anthropometric set of artificial pinna. While I can get very repeatable measurements from IEMs, earbuds with any kind of foams are a bit of a crapshoot, because the bass can easily go up or down by several dB according to the amount of pressure you apply to the earbud over the canal opening, i.e., it will depend on your external ear shape and how well they sit and seal in your ears. I can get a decent amount of bass with the Chaconnes, but their ergonomics aren't nearly as good as that of the Shozy BKs. I can run around and do backflips with the BKs in, and they don't go anywhere. Just walking around in the Chaconnes is enough to cause them to wobble around and come loose in my ears.

So, my Shozy BKs will still be my go-to portable set of earbuds, but if you're going to be sitting fairly still, the Chaconnes are a great choice.

Somebody had asked @ClieOS a few pages back for his top 10. Now I haven't heard anywhere near the number of earbuds that @ClieOS has (I've only owned about 40 pairs), but the Chaconnes and the Shozy BKs are easily my top two. Number three on my top 10 doesn't even come close to the SQ of these two earbuds. Every other earbud I own, or have owned, has some fairly wild peaks or troughs in the FR, resulting (to my ears) in a less natural sound. These two are both way ahead of any other competition I've heard so far.


----------



## Merkurio (Oct 22, 2019)

Received my Tonekings TO600 today and I really liked the detail, instrumental separation and openness feeling for the price (about 70 dollars with shipping by DHL).  However, I was not surprised with the bass response or the treble extension and my left driver rattles with genres where low frequencies predominate, so I will process a replacement/return.

Which TOTL earbuds you consider would be a worthy upgrade and with good QC, regardless the price? I like the harman target in IEMs (such as the Blon BL03) and also prefer a nice build quality and materials, but with better sonic capabilities than the TO600s (better extension at both ends, resolution and tonality).


----------



## ClieOS (Oct 22, 2019)

Narayan23 said:


> ...
> A tip of the hat to ClieOS and a petition to him to do more collaborations, thinking what he could do given more budget has my Mojo flowing.



I really don't mind if I can help out, as I do have an ulterior motive of wanting to see better earbuds make it into the market. While my advice is free, it does take effort from manufacturer to send sample over and going back and forth about tuning, which is not easy on their part.



waynes world said:


> He/she also says that the B40's bass is more potent than the ME80's bass. Not my experience.



...and to think we have someone complaining the lack of bass on B40 last week...



dharmasteve said:


> I think,  from what I see on this thread, quality control is not great on cheaper ear buds.  My own B40s are really good,  not far behind much more expensive buds.  So they can be really good.  But I have had a bad version of the Monks,  a really poor KZ,  a fake Sony and another couple of bad ones from a while back. We may be talking a high percentage of cheaper buds.



Here is story that the owner of Moondrop told people awhile back when they were doing inventory - his manager told him that half of all the drivers for Liebesleid at the time, around 50 pairs or so, have to be threw out because they don't meet the tolerance - that is about RMB15000 ( = USD$2100+) worth of drivers in the trash can. Now you know why some earbuds cost so much.


----------



## seanc6441

So any full impressions on the QJ21? Does it improve on the low end of the ACG/TI7. Are the mids of as high quality?


----------



## ricesteam

I miss my VE Zen 1.0, which I foolishly destroyed a while ago. Anyone know if there are any earbuds in today's market with the same or similar sound signature? I recall at one point the Seahf 320 v1 (smart) sounded the same or similar to it. It even looked like a rebranded Zen 1.0.


----------



## mbwilson111

ricesteam said:


> I miss my VE Zen 1.0, which I foolishly destroyed a while ago. Anyone know if there are any earbuds in today's market with the same or similar sound signature? I recall at one point the Seahf 320 v1 (smart) sounded the same or similar to it. It even looked like a rebranded Zen 1.0.



Destroyed in what way?   Does it just need a new cable?


----------



## ricesteam

mbwilson111 said:


> Destroyed in what way?   Does it just need a new cable?



In the process of replacing the cable, I applied too much pressure when opening one of the buds which resulted in the membrane separating from the driver. Perhaps with the right skills and tools, one could repair it. To me, that single torn wire connecting the two components is too microscopic small for me to fix.


----------



## mbwilson111

ricesteam said:


> In the process of replacing the cable, I applied too much pressure when opening one of the buds which resulted in the membrane separating from the driver. Perhaps with the right skills and tools, one could repair it. To me, that single torn wire connecting the two components is too microscopic small for me to fix.



Yeah that is the risk when it comes to recabling.    We have had a couple fall apart.   In fact, one of my Monk + sets did ... and now houses different drivers.  I was not going to get rid of the gorgeous purple shell!  And, of course it has the new cable on it .  It is just no longer a Monk.   I hope you still have the Zen shell in case you want to use it someday to make a new bud.


----------



## citral23

My recent love and very extensive use of earbuds has really changed the way I listen to music, I have a hard time going back to iems with their "in the head" effect, especially with the late 50s/early 60s jazz albums I'm enjoying atm, where most of records (early stereo) have instruments assigned to different channels almost completely. 

And I can't have a slow bass anymore, at all. Ordered the tin t2 (found a new offer at 30€ instead of the usual 35) to replace the yin*** v2 for work when I need isolation, can't cope with the slow, undefined vague and bloated bass anymore lol. The EBX has really spoiled me with speed, definition, texture, it's just gorgeous tbh. And surprisingly on techno tracks it's just right (plenty), and doesn't lack sub at all, I'm really reconsidering the amount of bass needed to sound right atm.

A bit like once I got my msp5 monitors, I couldn't listen to supermarket consumer stereo systems anymore, with their v-shaped, bleed into the mids, horribly slow bass.

Pretty much everyone says that the t2 lacks bass, but with how I evolved by now I think it'll be plenty tbh.

Happy to have found this thread and dipped my toes into earbuds as it's really refining my taste so far, now looking forward to more mmcx mid-range releases, I never regretted one second paying 160€ for kpes but still hesitating to buy say the totl OurArt, especially as there are no reviews.

Even 100€ for earbuds is quite akin to rolling a dice, we need to spread the love so there are more reviews and general interest.


----------



## mynamekok

I think Panda made from DQSM and I really love it. Then yesterday I ordered DQSM Turandot and hope I will love it too. Thank you ClieOS for every comments.


----------



## j4100

mynamekok said:


> I think Panda made from DQSM and I really love it. Then yesterday I ordered DQSM Turandot and hope I will love it too. Thank you ClieOS for every comments.



The Panda is my main sleeping bud due to the shell size and shape comfort. However, the cable ends up getting a bit twisted after a couple of years 

In other news, I'm really tempted by the new Zen Dice LL and I could get the upgrade discount. Apparently the upgrade involves breaking your Zen or Zen lite. Yikes! I need to find it first. My buds that are not in regular use are spread throughout the house!


----------



## HeadlessChicken

j4100 said:


> The Panda is my main sleeping bud due to the shell size and shape comfort. However, the cable ends up getting a bit twisted after a couple of years
> 
> In other news, I'm really tempted by the new Zen Dice LL and I could get the upgrade discount. Apparently the upgrade involves breaking your Zen or Zen lite. Yikes! I need to find it first. My buds that are not in regular use are spread throughout the house!



Yes you will need to break it. You can just cut the wires, thats what i did. Those keen on DIY can save the drivers in the shell. Mine r incoming, hopefully not too long now


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> Apparently the upgrade involves breaking your Zen or Zen lite. Yikes!



Could you really do that?   What if you could sell it to someone else to enjoy for the amount that you would save by destroying it?


----------



## Marcos Fontana

citral23 said:


> My recent love and very extensive use of earbuds has really changed the way I listen to music, I have a hard time going back to iems with their "in the head" effect, especially with the late 50s/early 60s jazz albums I'm enjoying atm, where most of records (early stereo) have instruments assigned to different channels almost completely.
> 
> And I can't have a slow bass anymore, at all. Ordered the tin t2 (found a new offer at 30€ instead of the usual 35) to replace the yin*** v2 for work when I need isolation, can't cope with the slow, undefined vague and bloated bass anymore lol. The EBX has really spoiled me with speed, definition, texture, it's just gorgeous tbh. And surprisingly on techno tracks it's just right (plenty), and doesn't lack sub at all, I'm really reconsidering the amount of bass needed to sound right atm.
> 
> ...


If you are really enjoying the EBX, you should give a try to pdv2. It shines with it!


----------



## seanc6441

@cqtek 

Any further impressions of QJ21? How does it compare to your other earbuds?


----------



## cqtek

seanc6441 said:


> @cqtek
> 
> Any further impressions of QJ21? How does it compare to your other earbuds?



It's really very good, it can't compare to the rest of earbuds I have. Vocally it's exceptional. At the level of layers, textures and vocal placement, it's impressive. Only in the bass section I think it's worse, because I like a more marked bass area, but it's something similar to the rest of Ourart earbuds. I hope this section improves with burning.

This afternoon I have to pick up the Smabat M1 Pro, but I don't think it will reach its level, just like the previous ST-10.


----------



## JPardo

cqtek said:


> It's really very good, it can't compare to the rest of earbuds I have. Vocally it's exceptional. At the level of layers, textures and vocal placement, it's impressive. Only in the bass section I think it's worse, because I like a more marked bass area, but it's something similar to the rest of Ourart earbuds. I hope this section improves with burning.
> 
> This afternoon I have to pick up the Smabat M1 Pro, but I don't think it will reach its level, just like the previous ST-10.



I am very interested in knowing your comparison of the Smabat M1 Pro with the BGVP DX5.  They may be two different profiles but by price range they are two options that I am looking for the 11.11 offers.


----------



## j4100

HeadlessChicken said:


> Yes you will need to break it. You can just cut the wires, thats what i did. Those keen on DIY can save the drivers in the shell. Mine r incoming, hopefully not too long now



Thanks, never thought of that.



mbwilson111 said:


> Could you really do that?   What if you could sell it to someone else to enjoy for the amount that you would save by destroying it?



I know what you mean, but no-one is going to give me £80 for the Zen Lite. That's the discount on the Dice LL. Mind you, I haven't looked for it yet, so there's that. I'll have a look this weekend.

Anyone bought the EA bud that's on Penon just now? I was thinking about that and the forthcoming 11.11 sale, but the hit on customs duties that my last couple of purchases incurred, is putting me off buying anything that's not dirt cheap in the first place.


----------



## oneula

A bunch of care packages came in from Ali
Currently listening to the Moondrop Shiro-Yuki 
Not bad kind of a really smooth sound profile things are there but nothing stands out over another sound signature 
nothing like the BLON03 or Shouer Tape but something you could listen all day to and not even know you have earbuds on.
worth every penny as this was a penny stock type of pick for an earbud

next up later today will be the Meze 12 Classics which are walnut shelled and more costly

I kind of like these Shiro-Yukis in my ear they stay put and seem weightless

I have the new VE Zen LL with the new design and cabling coming one day. be interested in comparing the two but that's like a $90 earbud at rack rate.
The Sony 755 sound more V shaped to me compared to the Shiro-Yukis
Another nice inexpensive discovery I've made from people on this thread
thanks


----------



## citral23 (Oct 24, 2019)

Took one for the team and ordered the Fengru PT32 mmcx I linked earlier in the thread, not a big risk at 10€, I'll let you know how they sound.

Also toneking TO400s to pair with the Zishan Z3 I ordered, wanted a line out DAP and love the analog-like AK sound, don't want wifi bt and whatnot, as this one has 100 ohms output impedance it's best paired with high Z single DD.

I haven't been mind blown by the TO200,  except when cranking the volume it really starts to shine, balanced cable incoming to feed it with more power, maybe I need an amp? We'll "see" how the TO400s sounds.


----------



## HungryPanda

The Moondrop Shiro-Yuki's are one of my favourites


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> The Moondrop Shiro-Yuki's *are one of my favourites*



Please do not string words together like that. Very dangerous for me!


----------



## cqtek (Oct 24, 2019)

mynamekok said:


> I think Panda made from DQSM and I really love it. Then yesterday I ordered DQSM Turandot and hope I will love it too. Thank you ClieOS for every comments.



I have found many similarities between the profile of the Panda and the BGVP DX5, improving the detail and, above all, the precision.

@JPardo, I need time to try both...you see that I'm very busy with all the news.

My first impression is that they're quite different. Both quite comfortable, but lighter the M1. In the profile they differ, the M1 are less aggressive in mids, with more accent in the sub-bass, but I only played two or three songs with them.


----------



## JPardo (Oct 24, 2019)

Of course, I understand that to give a consistent opinion you need more time.  I will be attentive to your comments and a possible analysis on your website. Thank you @cqtek


----------



## assassin10000 (Oct 24, 2019)

cqtek said:


> ...M1 are less aggressive in mids, with more accent in the sub-bass, but I only played two or three songs with them.



Looking forward to your thoughts on these. I'm still hesitant to pull the trigger on them. Mostly because I've been trying to fine tune a couple diy buds I made. 

Maybe 11.11 sales.


----------



## silverfishla

I think the only bud I might order for 11.11 are the new Faaeal Datura X Pro.  How about you guys?  What’s on your 11.11 buy list for earbuds?


----------



## assassin10000

cqtek said:


> Ourart QJ21: In two words .... Wooooowwwwww!!!





seanc6441 said:


> So any full impressions on the QJ21? Does it improve on the low end of the ACG/TI7. Are the mids of as high quality?



Ditto. Is it (possibly) enough of an improvement over the ACG to be a worthwhile upgrade?

Also mind measuring the outside diameter and thickness of the driver housing? (If you have a caliper to do so.)


----------



## oneula

silverfishla said:


> I think the only bud I might order for 11.11 are the new Faaeal Datura X Pro.  How about you guys?  What’s on your 11.11 buy list for earbuds?



These are the ones I'm watching to see if they drop significantly from the current list:

Audiosense T800 - $298
DQSM Turandot - $249
Rose Mojito 3D - $259
Rose Masya - $189
BQEYZ Spring 1 - $139
TONEKING Musicmaker Nine Tail - $99
SMABAT ST-10 - $99
K's K600 - $97
TONEKING Musicmaker Mr TING MX985 - $64

If I can get any of my top 5 at a significant discount I'll be happy as they would be a long term investment from what I've read.
I'm also considering the AK tuned Jerry Harvey Billie Jean $350 for my Activo CT-10 but it's not on AliExpress.
That would be a long term hold as well if I decide to scale up with another AK DAP


----------



## mbwilson111

silverfishla said:


> I think the only bud I might order for 11.11 are the new Faaeal Datura X Pro.  How about you guys?  What’s on your 11.11 buy list for earbuds?



I am definitely interested in that Faaeal Datura X Pro if/when there is a discount price.  I love all my Faaeal buds.


----------



## ClieOS

I don't buy anything I am very interested or expensive during the whole 11.11 week. Shipping is always slow and package is proned to lost. That's why I already buy most of what I wanted, and only going to buy cheap and non-essential stuff during 11.11.


----------



## silverfishla

mbwilson111 said:


> I am definitely interested in that Faaeal Datura X Pro if/when there is a discount price.  I love all my Faaeal buds.


I know, me too.  I love all my Faaeal buds too.  Excited to see what they’ve got up their sleeves for this one.


----------



## NStef

Sorry to be dumb but is 11.11 some kind of special sales deal?


----------



## HungryPanda

On Aliexpress it is their big sales day


----------



## NStef

Thank you HungryPanda.


----------



## seanc6441

My god 11.11 is approaching again. A year flies by so fast lol.

Feels like only a few months ago we were talking about the previous 11.11 sales on here


----------



## Jsingh4

Can anyone review BGVP DX5


----------



## cqtek (Oct 25, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> Ditto. Is it (possibly) enough of an improvement over the ACG to be a worthwhile upgrade?
> 
> Also mind measuring the outside diameter and thickness of the driver housing? (If you have a caliper to do so.)



For me it is, even because I like the profile of the QJ21 more, but it is much more expensive.

As soon as I can measure it, I have a caliber, but I'm overwhelmed.

The Smabat M1 doesn't look like any of the previous ones, but it also fits my tastes.






Jsingh4 said:


> Can anyone review BGVP DX5



My review is here:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/bgvp-dx5.24004/reviews#review-22800


----------



## cqtek

FA3: Sounds good, pretty good, but... always the same. 
Still, the color of the lower zone and its texture is very nice. 
I can use it with my more bassist IEMS. 
I can't deny that both are good DAPs, but I can't imagine how good they would be if their low zone was linear.


----------



## ClieOS

cqtek said:


> FA3: Sounds good, pretty good, but... always the same.
> Still, the color of the lower zone and its texture is very nice.
> I can use it with my more bassist IEMS.
> I can't deny that both are good DAPs, but I can't imagine how good they would be if their low zone was linear.



I'll make an educated guess that the output caps on the FA3 is too small. In that case, solder in some bigger caps will solve the issue on bass roll-off.


----------



## Merkurio

Chaconne or Bell-Ti for 11.11?

Both comfort and sound-wise.


----------



## Merkurio (Oct 25, 2019)

Sorry, duplicated.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 25, 2019)

Anyone see this thing?
https://h5.aliexpress.com/item/4000090081514.html

Seems like a very advanced and high quality portable dac/amp that might be ideal for earbuds users. Although it requires 5v usb out and has no internal battery so if you wanna use it with a smartphone you may need an additional power source in the chain. Probably more ideally suited to devices that outpit enough power like some tablets, laptops/pc and maybe some daps. Of course its not cheap but it seems good value for what you get.


----------



## Alypius

Aloha! Looking to shift to earbuds vice IEMs for listening at work (too much isolation and a PITA to take in/out when one of my minions needs me). I prefer a refined V-shaped presentation, so I have Beyerdynamic T1 (favorite, endgame), DT990/600 (close second but I deploy with it), DT1350, Shure 215, and Fidue A83 (favorite IEM). I drive them all from my PC-Modi Multibit-BH Crack or Onkyo DP-X1. I do have a JDS Atom on the way so we'll see how that works out.

At any rate, I'm not looking to spend more than $200 on a set of earbuds, though I have to admit the Mojito and the Liebesleid are attractive. After scouring the boards, I'm leaning toward the K300 Samsara, Rose Masya Pro, and K's Ling "brass cavity" (I'm assuming it's a relative of the Black Ling I keep reading about; I'm kinda new here). I've really only scratched the surface and I'm getting the impression that my taste leans in a different direction than a lot of folks. I discovered that when I announced that I despise the Sennheiser house sound (sounds like I'm listening underwater). Any recommendations for someone who really likes the T1/DT990 sound? Thanks a lot!


----------



## ClieOS

Alypius said:


> ... Thanks a lot!



Mojito and Liebesleid are both good choice. I'll throw in the Smabat ST-10 for consideration.


----------



## Alypius

LOL Truly interested! The ST-10's were on my list, but a little further down since no one was talking about them. I'll have to give them a shot!

I was hoping to not spend more than $200, but maybe that's the price of admission for the signature I like. I'll have to dig more to choose between the Mojito and the Liebesleid. Thank you very much!


----------



## seanc6441

Alypius said:


> LOL Truly interested! The ST-10's were on my list, but a little further down since no one was talking about them. I'll have to give them a shot!
> 
> I was hoping to not spend more than $200, but maybe that's the price of admission for the signature I like. I'll have to dig more to choose between the Mojito and the Liebesleid. Thank you very much!


Around here everyone and their mothers have been talking about the ST-10!

The Mojito is definitely recessed in the mids if that's what you are after. I personally found its treble too harsh without mods, but maybe my unit is more emphasised than normal...


----------



## darmanastartes

cqtek said:


> FA3: Sounds good, pretty good, but... always the same.
> Still, the color of the lower zone and its texture is very nice.
> I can use it with my more bassist IEMS.
> I can't deny that both are good DAPs, but I can't imagine how good they would be if their low zone was linear.


How did this make it into production?


----------



## mochill

seanc6441 said:


> Around here everyone and their mothers have been talking about the ST-10!
> 
> The Mojito is definitely recessed in the mids if that's what you are after. I personally found its treble too harsh without mods, but maybe my unit is more emphasised than normal...


Definitely mojito didn't sound recessed to me , it might be V shaped but definitely clear


----------



## stryed

Hello, 
Any recommendations in the sub 50usd with great soundstage? Something that would complement the bl-03 I am in the process of ordering for 11.11?
Besides, that one cheap bud I have, I don't have much experience.


----------



## tnelmo

seanc6441 said:


> Around here everyone and their mothers have been talking about the ST-10!.



Yes, just yesterday, my 90-year old almost deaf mother commented on the excellent bass and clear vocals of the ST-10....

For those without a sarcasm filter, it was.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 26, 2019)

mochill said:


> Definitely mojito didn't sound recessed to me , it might be V shaped but definitely clear


Recessed meaning the mids (especially vocal region around 500-1500hz) are notably behind the bass and treble. Which is what V shape means to me.

Its clear, but the vocals are not neutral or forward to me. But thats just my impression. It's probably some of the most recessed mids ive heard on an earbud. I think the dual driver is causing this.

Or maybe my unit is an anomaly.


----------



## Narayan23

seanc6441 said:


> Anyone see this thing?
> https://h5.aliexpress.com/item/4000090081514.html
> 
> Seems like a very advanced and high quality portable dac/amp that might be ideal for earbuds users. Although it requires 5v usb out and has no internal battery so if you wanna use it with a smartphone you may need an additional power source in the chain. Probably more ideally suited to devices that outpit enough power like some tablets, laptops/pc and maybe some daps. Of course its not cheap but it seems good value for what you get.



It is an interesting device, I read about it here where it was well reviewed:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ents-of-e1da-9038s-bal-portable-dac-amp.8424/

For a lower price (€49) you have the Ibasso DC02 or DC01, which also seem like great devices on paper:

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/port...i-res-ak4490-32bit-384khz-dsd256-p-14058.html


----------



## endia

seanc6441 said:


> Anyone see this thing?
> https://h5.aliexpress.com/item/4000090081514.html
> 
> Seems like a very advanced and high quality portable dac/amp that might be ideal for earbuds users. Although it requires 5v usb out and has no internal battery so if you wanna use it with a smartphone you may need an additional power source in the chain. Probably more ideally suited to devices that outpit enough power like some tablets, laptops/pc and maybe some daps. Of course its not cheap but it seems good value for what you get.



it already has a dedicated thread here on head-fi 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/e1d...-pdv2-9038s-9038d-9038x-hifitoy-hptoy.915835/


----------



## jant71 (Oct 26, 2019)

Probably mentioned but didn't see it back through the last half dozen pages. Looks like a decent concept and should see some tweaking the sound with some modification










Not sure what a protein diaphragm really is  Fit looks intriguing and I like MMCX for use with my FiiO short cord. Tempting being quite cheap! I see one or two orders already.


----------



## mbwilson111

jant71 said:


> Fit looks intriguing and I like MMCX for use with my FiiO short cord. Tempting being quite cheap! I see one or two orders already.



I am tempted.


----------



## Mhog55

jant71 said:


> Probably mentioned but didn't see it back through the last half dozen pages. Looks like a decent concept and should see some tweaking the sound with some modification
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Who makes this?


----------



## Mhog55

****. Has to be better than the PT15


----------



## groucho69

Interesting: Yaoyaotiger HIFI Audio Store has it for about 1/2 the cost at LuckLZ Audio Store so be aware.


----------



## jant71

I took a flyer on the SFR KP120. WTH, at $26.96 with epacket for non-mic version it was pretty low risk. Anyone else cave?


----------



## HungryPanda

As I have the KP110 I  will give it a pass, but I do like the funky look of them


----------



## mbwilson111

jant71 said:


> I took a flyer on the SFR KP120. WTH, at $26.96 with epacket for non-mic version it was pretty low risk. Anyone else cave?



Not yet... I will wait for the price to go down more


----------



## toear

jant71 said:


> I took a flyer on the SFR KP120. WTH, at $26.96 with epacket for non-mic version it was pretty low risk. Anyone else cave?


Do you have a link for this? I couldn't find it at that price. Much appreciated!


----------



## jant71 (Oct 27, 2019)

toear said:


> Do you have a link for this? I couldn't find it at that price. Much appreciated!



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000302594912.html

No, don't think I have ever used that seller before so no experience with them yet.

If still the same just change to epacket if it is better for you. Was still free just had to select it but for me in NY is under 2 weeks nearly every time so better than the Ali standard. Don't forget your coupons but that only really just wiped away the tax.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 27, 2019)

toear said:


> Do you have a link for this? I couldn't find it at that price. Much appreciated!



Wow last night I found it on this store for $29 and now it is just over $34. I expect it will go down again for 11:11

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32904196441.html

Slightly less here

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000300388208.html



jant71 said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000302594912.html
> 
> If still the same just change to epacket if it is better for you. Was still free just had to select it but for me in NY is under 2 weeks nearly every time so better than the Ali standard.



That one never came up in  my search.  Good find.

(btw, fixed your link in my quote... we are supposed to remove all the affiliate spam stuff)


----------



## mynamekok

Anybody use this cable? Is it work with earbud?
DUNU HULK


----------



## toear

jant71 said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000302594912.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.46474c4d6j790o
> 
> No, don't think I have ever used that seller before so no experience with them yet.
> 
> If still the same just change to epacket if it is better for you. Was still free just had to select it but for me in NY is under 2 weeks nearly every time so better than the Ali standard. Don't forget your coupons but that only really just wiped away the tax.



Perfect thank you!


----------



## toear

mbwilson111 said:


> Wow last night I found it on this store for $29 and now it is just over $34. I expect it will go down again for 11:11
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32904196441.html
> 
> ...


Thanks saw that as well. I figured they jacked the price up...


----------



## BloodyPenguin (Oct 27, 2019)

A few of you may know that I started a Facebook Group *Earbuds Anonymous* back in December of 2016.

We ended up working with a sponsor here on Head-Fi and were able to get a personalized earbud for our community.  We have great members and I wanted to help give something back.

It is just called the, *Earbuds Anonymous Earbud*.

_*I also want to make it VERY clear that I am NOT profiting from the sale of these Earbuds, though I did receive two early units to keep for working on them* 
_
I will also not be providing a link to the product, anyone interested can just head over to the Facebook page for more information.


The sound signature is close to neutral, with great vocal mids, deep sub-bass and non-harsh highs.  Details are very decent I must say.
Easy to drive with a cell phone and responds well to higher end devices as well.

My thought process when we were going through prototypes was that I wanted a fun, yet different sound and a price that is not too far out of reach for most buyers.


Here are some of the photos I took of it at the time of launch:






























_-Tech Specs-_
Driver Diameter: 15.4mm
Driver Magnet: NdFeB N45
Diaphragm Material: PET
Impedance: 32 ohms
Frequency Response Range: 20-20000Hz
Sensitivity: 101dB/1000Hz
Cable Material: 4N Silver-Plated Copper
Cable Length: 1.2m
Plug: 3.5mm Gold-Plated

--


----------



## jant71

mbwilson111 said:


> That one never came up in  my search.  Good find.
> 
> (btw, fixed your link in my quote... we are supposed to remove all the affiliate spam stuff)



Thanks! Was in a rush to beat the rain and totally forgot about that.

Anyway, we'll see. Need to be better sounding than the PT25 which is the only other SFR bud I have had. Esp. the newer cable. PT25 cable thinks thinks sharp bass roll off is a good thing and it wasn't well behaved or even have a chin slider and was a bit too long. This  looks better in the photos and might even come in handy with my Shuoer Tape since I wear them straight down so can't hurt to have a second guide free cable.  Fit is intriguing as is playing with the tubes. I'm sure I'll take the leanest one and try stuffing it with foam and cotton and what not.


----------



## ClieOS

BloodyPenguin said:


> A few of you may know that I started a Facebook Group *Earbuds Anonymous* back in December of 2016.
> ...


----------



## toear

Do you have to be a part of FB to buy? I don't have an FB account...

Thanks!


BloodyPenguin said:


> A few of you may know that I started a Facebook Group *Earbuds Anonymous* back in December of 2016.
> 
> We ended up working with a sponsor here on Head-Fi and were able to get a personalized earbud for our community.  We have great members and I wanted to help give something back.
> 
> ...


----------



## oneula

BloodyPenguin said:


> A few of you may know that I started a Facebook Group *Earbuds Anonymous* back in December of 2016.
> 
> We ended up working with a sponsor here on Head-Fi and were able to get a personalized earbud for our community.  We have great members and I wanted to help give something back.
> 
> ...




I saw this on the FB group and was tempted by buying on Ali did support the $25 group discount an I've had longer shipping delays from the Penon site
Its very tempting since its a collaboration from actual user input

How would you compare it to the WtllSound MK2 or the VE Zens?
I really like my old Mk2s
I have a new gen replacement in MMCX along with his MK32


----------



## dharmasteve

So I've taken the bait and ordered the Earbuds Anonymous,  earbuds.  Penon accepts the discount code.  Has anybody got them yet?   I have not got the faintest what to expect.


----------



## stryed

After going through some reviews, I think I will settle on the toneking to200 (driven by lg v35). Is this ok? I am looking for some bass but mostly soundstage. 
Besides the Monks, I have no experience with earbuds but would like one for 11.11


----------



## groucho69

BloodyPenguin said:


> A few of you may know that I started a Facebook Group *Earbuds Anonymous* back in December of 2016.
> 
> We ended up working with a sponsor here on Head-Fi and were able to get a personalized earbud for our community.  We have great members and I wanted to help give something back.
> 
> ...



You had me at few.

Nice to see you here on occasion my friend.


----------



## cqtek

ClieOS said:


> I'll make an educated guess that the output caps on the FA3 is too small. In that case, solder in some bigger caps will solve the issue on bass roll-off.



First of all, thank you for your advice. Second, I've got the wrong thread. I apologize to everyone, I should have put it in "Obscure Chinese DAPs". 

But since you answered, what you say I'm going to do in the Zishan T1, I already have the appropriate capacitors. Then, if it fixes it, I will try it in the F.Audio XS03, but I will have to detect which capacitors are and where to buy the new ones. In the F.Audio FA3, to open the DAP is more complicated, since the screws are tiny...I'll see what has to be done...


----------



## citral23 (Oct 27, 2019)

stryed said:


> After going through some reviews, I think I will settle on the toneking to200 (driven by lg v35). Is this ok? I am looking for some bass but mostly soundstage.
> Besides the Monks, I have no experience with earbuds but would like one for 11.11



I have spent more time with that one lately, and have started to really like it, especially at high levels (caution advised...)

However I'm not convinced so far that even the quite powerful DSD pro feeds it with enough power to reveal it's full potential (will try this week with a balanced cable, and with a single-ended amp to compare) so that could be really demanding for a phone. It's not doing very well on  my otg dac either. 

I think the BK2 is a much better "starter", mmcx earbuds, easy to drive from any source, good bass and overall relaxed signature without any real flaw.


----------



## JPardo

The discount that some products will have for the offers of 11.11 is already indicated.  BGVP DX5 and Smabat M1 Pro will be around 53€.  Surely, separate discount codes are issued during the offers.


----------



## mbwilson111

JPardo said:


> The discount that some products will have for the offers of 11.11 is already indicated.  BGVP DX5 and Smabat M1 Pro will be around 53€.  Surely, separate discount codes are issued during the offers.



That price will take effect on the 11th... no additional codes needed... just put them all in your cart now and wait for the price to change when the sale starts.  They you can buy.


----------



## JPardo

mbwilson111 said:


> That price will take effect on the 11th... no additional codes needed... just put them all in your cart now and wait for the price to change when the sale starts.  They you can buy.



I mean codes or coupons discounts from AliExpress itself, not from stores.  These discounts can be applied to the cart, adding to the applied discount of the store.


----------



## mbwilson111

I am interested in getting an inexpensive balanced cable for my Rose Masya but I don't know if there is anything out there that will sit flush to the black part of the stem... like the stock cable does.  Does anyone have an aftermarket cable on their Masya and if so could you post a photo?


----------



## dharmasteve

mbwilson111 said:


> I am interested in getting an inexpensive balanced cable for my Rose Masya but I don't know if there is anything out there that will sit flush to the black part of the stem... like the stock cable does.  Does anyone have an aftermarket cable on their Masya and if so could you post a photo?





 

Sorry not cheap but excellent balanced cable.  ISN audio S16 from Penon. Convinced me that cables have their own sound too.


----------



## mbwilson111

dharmasteve said:


> Sorry not cheap but excellent balanced cable.  ISN audio S16 from Penon. Convinced me that cables have their own sound too.



Those are nice but I want to avoid that gap between the black connector and the black part of the stem... like with the stock cable... it fits over and covers the plastic bit.

I know you don't see it when you are wearing them but...


----------



## ClieOS

mbwilson111 said:


> I am interested in getting an inexpensive balanced cable for my Rose Masya but I don't know if there is anything out there that will sit flush to the black part of the stem... like the stock cable does.  Does anyone have an aftermarket cable on their Masya and if so could you post a photo?



The connector on the Masya / Mojito is known as the old UE 0.75mm 2 pins. You can find them on very old UE's IEM, like Triple-fi 10 and such. YOu can buy a balanced cable and has it reterminated with these connectors, which you can find on Aliexpress.


----------



## citral23

Looking for reviews/impressions of the Toneking TY2 (pro or not), it's the only really interesting 11.11 deal I've found so far, 61€ instead of 94€ so it's tempting if they are good.

Can't find anything online :/


----------



## mbwilson111

ClieOS said:


> The connector on the Masya / Mojito is known as the old UE 0.75mm 2 pins. You can find them on very old UE's IEM, like Triple-fi 10 and such. YOu can buy a balanced cable and has it reterminated with these connectors, which you can find on Aliexpress.



I found the connectors that attach to the earpieces.  So we could buy some and put them on any balanced cable.  Or, did you mean there are places to buy a balanced cable already with those connectors?


----------



## ClieOS

mbwilson111 said:


> I found the connectors that attach to the earpieces.  So we could buy some and put them on any balanced cable.  Or, did you mean there are places to buy a balanced cable already with those connectors?



Old UE 0.75mm 2 pins are not a particularly common connector to use these days, so it won't be an easy find when it comes to ready-made cable. Retermination will be a better bet.


----------



## j4100

Phew! Thought I had lost a bunch of buds, including the Zen lite I was looking for. A computer component box with my Shozy BK, Zen Lite, Kinera bud (this one works!), a Sabia, Qian 69, and a Vido. Plus a couple of amps. Took me a week to find, despite the box being in full view. 

I really have too much stuff and need to part with some of it.


----------



## groucho69 (Oct 28, 2019)

j4100 said:


> Phew! Thought I had lost a bunch of buds, including the Zen lite I was looking for. A computer component box with my Shozy BK, Zen Lite, Kinera bud (this one works!), a Sabia, Qian 69, and a Vido. Plus a couple of amps. Took me a week to find, despite the box being in full view.
> 
> I really have too much stuff and need to part with some of it.



I'm glad that never happens to me...well rarely...not often...sometimes...occasionally...monthly...weekly...daily...hey, who moved my keyboard!?


----------



## silverfishla (Oct 28, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I am interested in getting an inexpensive balanced cable for my Rose Masya but I don't know if there is anything out there that will sit flush to the black part of the stem... like the stock cable does.  Does anyone have an aftermarket cable on their Masya and if so could you post a photo?


 
The KZ plug fits over the Masya.  This is just the basic cable.  You could reterminate to balanced or try to find a balanced cable with these plugs (don’t know if they exist). 
I don’t know how the Masya or Mojito are wired (which hole is pos/neg, or what).
Edit: CCA cables.  I don’t have. KZ.


----------



## Nec3

Thank you for the recommendations guys. I now own 5 headphones/earphones with braided cables and all of them are my favorite, including the Nicehck B40 that you guys recommended. I'm a happy camper 

I like the small lip that grips onto the foam covers, more earphone companies should do this.


----------



## waynes world

j4100 said:


> Phew! Thought I had lost a bunch of buds, including the Zen lite I was looking for. A computer component box with my Shozy BK, Zen Lite, Kinera bud (this one works!), a Sabia, Qian 69, and a Vido. Plus a couple of amps. Took me a week to find, despite the box being in full view.
> 
> I really have too much stuff and need to part with some of it.



You know you're really in trouble when the buds you're looking for are in your ears!


----------



## groucho69

waynes world said:


> You know you're really in trouble when the buds you're looking for are in your ears!



Or the glasses are on your face


----------



## DBaldock9

citral23 said:


> Looking for reviews/impressions of the Toneking TY2 (pro or not), it's the only really interesting 11.11 deal I've found so far, 61€ instead of 94€ so it's tempting if they are good.
> 
> Can't find anything online :/



The MusicMaker ToneKing TY2 was the first set of "expensive" [$88] earbuds that I bought, back in November of 2016.
I ordered them, because I thought they looked pretty cool.
Mine have pretty good Midrange & Treble, but not much Bass - a bit like the PT15 (which are less than $10).
Due to their size & shape, the TY2 are not as comfortable as my other earbuds - so I haven't listened to them in quite a while.
.
In the same price range, I prefer the sound of my VE Asura 2.0s.


----------



## chinmie

so, any reviews about the Turandot yet? I'm interested o  how it compares to the SWD2+ or the Stardust


----------



## Infoseeker (Oct 29, 2019)

0.78 two pin longevity! Who needs flushness.


----------



## Alypius

Thanks! Pulled the trigger on the ST-10s, gonna wait for 11.11 to nab the Mojito and (maybe/probably) the Liebs. I do want them all, if only to review/compare.


----------



## Infoseeker (Oct 29, 2019)

chinmie said:


> so, any reviews about the Turandot yet? I'm interested o  how it compares to the SWD2+ or the Stardust



I have the Simphonio dragon plus 2 and the Turandot  is on the way.

But ClieOS has both, hopefully he can tell you for us.


----------



## ClieOS

Here is my Turandot impression:

Grand and well rounded, warm yet dynamic, sweet but not overly so. The strength of Turandot is in its top notch balance of technicality and musicality, combined with an excellent soundstage. It has almost no weakness to speak of, and a great example of creating the atmosphere of a big can within the confinement of an earbud.


----------



## mochill

ClieOS said:


> Here is my Turandot impression:
> 
> Grand and well rounded, warm yet dynamic, sweet but not overly so. The strength of Turandot is in its top notch balance of technicality and musicality, combined with an excellent soundstage. It has almost no weakness to speak of, and a great example of creating the atmosphere of a big can within the confinement of an earbud.


So totl level it be :-D


----------



## mbwilson111

Infoseeker said:


> 0.78 two pin longevity! Who needs flushness.



Aesthetics affect me more than they do most people.


----------



## chinmie

ClieOS said:


> It has almost no weakness to speak of



dang it..... 

now I'm more curious than ever 
how do you compare it to the Liebesleid? and also the other Yuin shelled TOTLs?


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> dang it...



I know.  I don't want to want anything expensive...


----------



## Infoseeker

ClieOS said:


> Here is my Turandot impression:
> 
> Grand and well rounded, warm yet dynamic, sweet but not overly so. The strength of Turandot is in its top notch balance of technicality and musicality, combined with an excellent soundstage. It has almost no weakness to speak of, and a great example of creating the atmosphere of a big can within the confinement of an earbud.



That sounds like the Simphonio 2+  xD


----------



## robar

Has anyone bought something from this store? They will sell Faaeal Z-sound for less than 3usd, can I trust them?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33014074629.html


----------



## ClieOS (Oct 29, 2019)

mochill said:


> So totl level it be :-D



Crème de la crème



chinmie said:


> dang it.....
> 
> now I'm more curious than ever
> how do you compare it to the Liebesleid? and also the other Yuin shelled TOTLs?



Liebesleid has a very delicate female vocal. On certain female singer, Liebesleid might has an edge over Turandot. But as a whole over different genre, there is no competition. The Yuin style earbuds that in my collection and comes close in quality is the SWD2+, which has a brighter overall tone. In comparison, I'll say Turandot is more musical with a warmer and more enveloping presentation where SWD2+ is more technical and clean sounding,


----------



## Narayan23 (Oct 29, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> Here is my Turandot impression:
> 
> Grand and well rounded, warm yet dynamic, sweet but not overly so. The strength of Turandot is in its top notch balance of technicality and musicality, combined with an excellent soundstage. It has almost no weakness to speak of, and a great example of creating the atmosphere of a big can within the confinement of an earbud.





ClieOS said:


> Crème de la crème
> 
> 
> 
> Liebesleid has a very delicate female vocal. On certain female singer, Liebesleid might has an edge over Turandot. But as a whole over different genre, there is no competition. The Yuin style earbuds that in my collection and comes close in quality is the SWD2+, which has a brighter overall tone. In comparison, I'll say Turandot is more musical with a warmer and more enveloping presentation where SWD2+ is more technical and clean sounding,


----------



## oneula

ClieOS said:


> Crème de la crème
> 
> 
> 
> Liebesleid has a very delicate female vocal. On certain female singer, Liebesleid might has an edge over Turandot. But as a whole over different genre, there is no competition. The Yuin style earbuds that in my collection and comes close in quality is the SWD2+, which has a brighter overall tone. In comparison, I'll say Turandot is more musical with a warmer and more enveloping presentation where SWD2+ is more technical and clean sounding,



Do you have the Audiosense T800?

I'm on the fence between the Turandot and the T-800

I have the VE Zen2 and Zen Omega and will be upgrading to their Zen Black replacement


----------



## ClieOS

oneula said:


> Do you have the Audiosense T800?



I don't. Not really invest much into new IEM anymore.


----------



## Narayan23

ClieOS high praise = unmitigated desire to immediately dispose of income, never mind Puccini, now all I can see is this:


----------



## citral23 (Oct 29, 2019)

Marcos Fontana said:


> If you are really enjoying the EBX, you should give a try to pdv2. It shines with it!



I've taken some time today to look at it, and indeed, these E1DA products seems to measure astonishingly well, giving the best desktop devices a run for their money. Also found out, on a certain audio science forum, that the dac dongle I use at work is utter crap... utter crap that I bought 30€ jeez, well we all make mistakes by ignorance at the beginning I suppose.

Anyway, I've decided to wait and get the single ended version of their dac/amp once it comes out, it's hard to justify buying a bunch of balanced cable for my 16-32 ohms buds and the occasional IEM (and I don't want to part with the stock EBX cable) if I get a powerdac V2 or 9038S, and the single ended version promises to be no slouch either.

It solves something I was wondering about since months now, how to get a good dac at work without attracting attention (like say a xd-05 plus would)


----------



## cqtek

ClieOS said:


> Here is my Turandot impression:
> 
> Grand and well rounded, warm yet dynamic, sweet but not overly so. The strength of Turandot is in its top notch balance of technicality and musicality, combined with an excellent soundstage. It has almost no weakness to speak of, and a great example of creating the atmosphere of a big can within the confinement of an earbud.



If not too much to ask...What is your opinion of the DQSM Turandot vs Ourart QJ21?


----------



## ClieOS (Oct 29, 2019)

cqtek said:


> If not too much to ask...What is your opinion of the DQSM Turandot vs Ourart QJ21?



QJ21 has a laid-back and warmish sound, if not more on the smooth and unassuming side of the presentation. By far the best build quality of all the earbuds I ever own, bar none. But by sound quality, I feel it is technically very strong though just a little too laid-back for its own good. It lacks just that something that could have made it shine over others - one quality that often defines ToTL earbuds over the rest. I'll rank it perhaps top of the second tier or even a lower end of the first tier.


----------



## cqtek

ClieOS said:


> QJ21 has a laid-back and warmish sound, if not more on the smooth and unassuming side of the presentation. By far the best build quality of all the earbuds I ever own, bar none. But by sound quality, I feel it is technically very strong though just a little too laid-back for its own good. It lacks just that something that could have made it shine over others - one quality that often defines ToTL earbuds over the rest. I'll rank it perhaps top of the second tier or even a lower end of the first tier.



Thank you very much for your description. I think you prefer the Turandot over the QJ21.


----------



## groucho69

So who has an 11-11 list? I can't seem to find a decent deal on what I'm interested in.


----------



## roy1963

how does the Smabat ST10 or svara L compare to kube v1 soundwise,really happy with my kube v1 but tempted by the 11.11 sales


----------



## oneula

groucho69 said:


> So who has an 11-11 list? I can't seem to find a decent deal on what I'm interested in.



Best deals I've seen are on the new FAAEAL buds Datura/Hibiscus


----------



## seanc6441

@ClieOS

I'll ask because nobody else has, what does the bass of the turandot ompare to?

Does it have good depth and impact?


----------



## Infoseeker

To get bass from earbuds you need a perfect fit from foamies and that is without shifting from your seat.

Is it fair to compare to other form factors


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> @ClieOS
> 
> I'll ask because nobody else has, what does the bass of the turandot ompare to?
> 
> Does it have good depth and impact?



It can reach deep but quantitatively it is not a bass heavy earbud. I'll call it just a bit north of neutral.


----------



## mbwilson111

ClieOS said:


> It can reach deep but quantitatively it is not a bass heavy earbud. I'll call it just a bit north of neutral.



Does north of neutral mean a little more or a little less than neutral?


----------



## dharmasteve

ClieOS said:


> It can reach deep but quantitatively it is not a bass heavy earbud. I'll call it just a bit north of neutral.



Is the Ourart QJ21 a big upgrade over the ACG soundwise? How does the bass on both compare? I have the ACG. 

Steve


----------



## ClieOS

mbwilson111 said:


> Does north of neutral mean a little more or a little less than neutral?



More.



dharmasteve said:


> Is the Ourart QJ21 a big upgrade over the ACG soundwise? How does the bass on both compare? I have the ACG.
> 
> Steve



Can't say, since I don't have the ACG.


----------



## ClieOS

**** KP120
Qian 49
Faaeal Datura-Pro


----------



## Infoseeker (Oct 30, 2019)

wow, the Faael Datura Pro already arrived? Mine are still on the way.

Do those Qian 49 have the same shape as apple airpods? Looks balance  ended too. What is that?


----------



## JPardo

ClieOS said:


> **** KP120
> Qian 49
> Faaeal Datura-Pro



What do you think about datura pro?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

ClieOS said:


> **** KP120



Can you describe a little sound?


----------



## mbwilson111

Infoseeker said:


> wow, the Faael Datura Pro already arrived? Mine are still on the way.
> 
> Do those Qian 49 have the same shape as apple airpods? Looks balance  ended too. What is that?



I think the cable has a mic that is why there are 4  poles.. not balanced.

I am wondering if the shell is metal or plastic.


----------



## DUNU-Topsound

mynamekok said:


> Anybody use this cable? Is it work with earbud?
> DUNU HULK



It will work with any earbud that uses removable MMCX or 2-pin connectors.


----------



## Infoseeker (Oct 30, 2019)

Wow overkill interchangeable cable. haha

That Dunu definitely looks convenient  for its price.

Though if I would spend money I would go for a weightless Linum cable. To keep earbuds fitting without being dragged down.


----------



## ClieOS (Oct 30, 2019)

JPardo said:


> What do you think about datura pro?



Maturity is the first thing to come to mind. The Datura-X has a warm and rather bassy sound - fun in a sense. Datura-Pro on the other hand has a calm, almost neutral but still warmish sound. Mid-range is still the focus of the presentation, but better tonal balance and thus better accuracy. Definitely the best Faaeal so far. The earpiece housing is also made out of a lighter metal this time, which is a plus as Datura-X is a bit heavy IMO.



Alex.Grimm said:


> Can you describe a little sound?



There are three different type of back vent filters that come with KP120, which gives you three noticeably different sound - the stock black filter is probably the best to my ear with the best balance between detail and warmth. You can also play with full or donut foam with different back vents to further tune the sound, but for the topic I'll keep to just describing the black filter - the overall sound kinda reminds me of PT15, but more upfront and aggressive, lighter on the feet with slightly bright-ish tuning but still have a good bass reach, almost like a very mild U-shaped sound. The re-position of the MMCX socket is a godsend. The over-the-ear design of the KP110 makes fit a hit or miss, but KP120 feels just like a conventional earbud and much easier to recommend. 



mbwilson111 said:


> I think the cable has a mic that is why there are 4  poles.. not balanced.
> 
> I am wondering if the shell is metal or plastic.



Full plastic and yes, it is a mic. A very warm and bassy sound if anyone wonder.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 30, 2019)

Infoseeker said:


> To get bass from earbuds you need a perfect fit from foamies and that is without shifting from your seat.
> 
> Is it fair to compare to other form factors



I was asking about a comparison to other earbuds not IEMs or headphones.

Earbuds with good bass depth and impact still usually have significantly less extension than many IEMs and somewhat less than most full size headphones especially any with more sealing pads.

But i find the earbuds with the best impact under 100hz and quality have very addictive bass and sound significantly better than bass light earbuds. Because the tonal balance is much better.

That said I dont enjoy bloated, boomy bass. There's gotta be a certain level of control for it to sound right. Balance is key.


----------



## Mhog55

seanc6441 said:


> I was asking about a comparison to other earbuds not IEMs or headphones.
> 
> Earbuds with good bass depth and impact still usually have significantly less extension than many IEMs and somewhat less than most full size headphones especially any with more sealing pads.
> 
> ...


So which buds have you found with the bass you like? I understand it's fit dependant, but I'd still like to know please. Thx


----------



## Infoseeker

The control on the bass of my Symphonio Dragon 2+ is amazing fast. But those cost alot.


----------



## robar (Oct 30, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> I was asking about a comparison to other earbuds not IEMs or headphones.
> 
> Earbuds with good bass depth and impact still usually have significantly less extension than many IEMs and somewhat less than most full size headphones especially any with more sealing pads.
> 
> ...


I usually add at least +1-2dB EQ between 30 and 125hz to my balanced sounding buds (which already have good bass), concentrated on the 50-80hz area. This way they gain that extra depth and impact that make them sound headphone worthy, essentially compensating for the natural rolloff. I'm not sure if this can be achieved with physical tuning, my experience is that the mids always suffer that way, and I prefer to keep the mids flat and increase the low bass in post. Maybe there is a magic driver or tuning foam or whatever but I'm a bit skeptical at this point.


----------



## JPardo

ClieOS said:


> Maturity is the first thing to come to mind. The Datura-X has a warm and rather bassy sound - fun in a sense. Datura-Pro on the other hand has a calm, almost neutral but still warmish sound. Mid-range is still the focus of the presentation, but better tonal balance and thus better accuracy. Definitely the best Faaeal so far. The earpiece housing is also made out of a lighter metal this time, which is a plus as Datura-X is a bit heavy IMO.



Thank you very much for your opinion, very useful to have a reference.


----------



## seanc6441 (Oct 30, 2019)

Mhog55 said:


> So which buds have you found with the bass you like? I understand it's fit dependant, but I'd still like to know please. Thx


Ks Ling with a liberated driver (because the stock tuning is just meh) has that inpact and extension with good control. Although it's a little on the warm side overall but it's very balanced and very smooth, not dull or boomy in the slightest. They used quality drivers and stuck it in a tin can like acoustic environment without good tuning, it really perplexes me tbh.

Retuned shozy cygnus has addictive bass but soundstage suffers with the bass orientated tuning. It has the perfect amount of emphasis around 50-100hz that delivers great impact.

In stock tuning I've yet to find a perfect earbud sadly, it seems most stock earbuds have overdone mid bass or are bass light. And most bass focused earbuds sacrifice mids quality/refinement.

That's why earbuds the drivers like ks ling/cygnus/penon bs1 have been my favorite so far. Although the bs1 struggles a bit more with mid bass tightness it has a very interesting but balanced tuning.

It's extremely difficult to find a TOTL level earbud in bass mids and highs. That's why I feel like many TOTL earbuds are overpriced because they don't deliver in all departments yet cost a premium price.

I've seen more promising results with retuned earbuds than many of the stock tuned TOTL earbuds ive heard. I'm not asking for Harmann levels of sub bass obviously. Just a little bit of depth and a decent amount of impact around 50-100hz, with balanced mids and highs.


----------



## citral23 (Oct 30, 2019)

citral23 said:


> I have spent more time with that one lately, and have started to really like it, especially at high levels (caution advised...)
> 
> However I'm not convinced so far that even the quite powerful DSD pro feeds it with enough power to reveal it's full potential (will try this week with a balanced cable, and with a single-ended amp to compare) so that could be really demanding for a phone. It's not doing very well on  my otg dac either.
> 
> I think the BK2 is a much better "starter", mmcx earbuds, easy to drive from any source, good bass and overall relaxed signature without any real flaw.



Following up on that for OP who asked about getting TO200 as first earbuds, I received a mmcx balanced cable and little lovely amp (Topping NX1s) yesterday, had a little time to test so it's not definitive but here is what I can say :

Completely forget driving the TO200 directly from a phone or otg DAC. The difference with an amp is night and day, it's not even the same earbuds, and it barelay reaches slightly loud levels on a phone or otg dac.

The DSD while having adequate power to drive it loud (and it's the same balanced or not, surprisingly to me, I'd thought balanced would have more grunt) it's still not really satisfactory and the sound remains veiled, thin and anemic.

DSD + amp = win.

I still overall prefer the BK2 for everyday listen, it's much warmer and has better bass texture to me, but the TO200 has other interesting characteristics when amped, fast transients, huge soundstage, it's more of a "technical" one and perhaps more an acquired taste.

Now waiting for the TO400s to come home to compare (hope that little amp can drive it properly) and maybe I'll go as far as ordering a T0180 and TO600 eventually  (altho I don't know yet what portable amp can drive that 600, considering a walnut F2 just for that so far)


----------



## Mhog55

seanc6441 said:


> Ks Ling with a liberated driver (because the stock tuning is just meh) has that inpact and extension with good control. Although it's a little on the warm side overall but it's very balanced and very smooth, not dull or boomy in the slightest. They used quality drivers and stuck it in a tin can like acoustic environment without good tuning, it really perplexes me tbh.
> 
> Retuned shozy cygnus has addictive bass but soundstage suffers with the bass orientated tuning. It has the perfect amount of emphasis around 50-100hz that delivers great impact.
> 
> ...


Thanks. That's kinda what I figured, but was hoping maybe you found something in stock form.


----------



## MelodyMood (Oct 30, 2019)

Hi Guys. Did anyone try this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33043716825.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.1b653c00UFfSqq&mp=1

Looks good to me. Thinking to order them but also little confused between Remax RM305 and this one. Recently I ordered Secret Earbud from NICEHCK. They did not turn out to be very good. Sound is very thin and cable is also very delicate. I wanted some Warm but xklear sound and with good bass and of course with Mic.  Any new suggestion?

Especially if something is available at very cheaper price on 11.11.


----------



## rd5rdm

Earbuds recommendation requested:

I am looking to complement my current gear, final Audio E4000 iem and P7 wireless headphones, with a pair for earbuds.

I am looking for warm sounding earbuds with relaxed treble (I’m sensitive to treble). Mostly listen to acoustics, vocals & jazz, so things that matter are mid-focused (not recessed), great timbre, tonality, instrument separation and soundstage.

I’d appreciate any suggestions within $100 range. 

thanks in advance !


----------



## MelodyMood

MelodyMood said:


> Hi Guys. Did anyone try this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33043716825.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.1b653c00UFfSqq&mp=1
> 
> Looks good to me. Thinking to order them but also little confused between Remax RM305 and this one. Recently I ordered Secret Earbud from NICEHCK. They did not turn out to be very good. Sound is very thin and cable is also very delicate. I wanted some Warm but xklear sound and with good bass and of course with Mic.  Any new suggestion?
> 
> Especially if something is available at very cheaper price on 11.11.



Anyone tried these too: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000282951150.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.6f223c00W7k2do&mp=1


----------



## Chris674

rd5rdm said:


> Earbuds recommendation requested:
> 
> I am looking to complement my current gear, final Audio E4000 iem and P7 wireless headphones, with a pair for earbuds.
> 
> ...


I'd save most of the $100. Get the Venture Electronics Monk+ and the NiceHCK B40. Then you can choose whether you want impressive separation and soundstage (B40) or fantastic mids and very relaxed treble (Monk+). They're both great, staple buds and you'd only be out $20 total for both.


----------



## mochill

rd5rdm said:


> Earbuds recommendation requested:
> 
> I am looking to complement my current gear, final Audio E4000 iem and P7 wireless headphones, with a pair for earbuds.
> 
> ...


Shozy xb


----------



## assassin10000

seanc6441 said:


> In stock tuning I've yet to find a perfect earbud sadly, it seems most stock earbuds have overdone mid bass or are bass light. And most bass focused earbuds sacrifice mids quality/refinement.
> 
> I'm not asking for Harmann levels of sub bass obviously. Just a little bit of depth and a decent amount of impact around 50-100hz, with balanced mids and highs.



I know you were out of earbuds for a while but have you heard the ST-10 yet?


----------



## gazzington

Anybody tried the new ve sun yet?


----------



## flamesofarctica (Oct 31, 2019)

rd5rdm said:


> Earbuds recommendation requested:
> 
> I am looking to complement my current gear, final Audio E4000 iem and P7 wireless headphones, with a pair for earbuds.
> 
> ...



My personal favourite all-rounder with zero harshness, quite mid-focused and great sound across the board is the VE Asura 2.


----------



## snowmind

I believe my B40 unit is totally burned out. I received them on the first day of October and have been using them for my daily auditions.

Undoubtedly, the sound stage stands out with good layers and width, very spatial sound. As for the signature of the sound, the midrange stands out with excellent dynamics at a new level for vocals, the bass is long and textured with a lot of energy, it's on the warm side. I would just like more treble. Very good for rock and jazz (and even heavy metal).


----------



## dharmasteve

snowmind said:


> I believe my B40 unit is totally burned out. I received them on the first day of October and have been using them for my daily auditions.
> 
> Undoubtedly, the sound stage stands out with good layers and width, very spatial sound. As for the signature of the sound, the midrange stands out with excellent dynamics at a new level for vocals, the bass is long and textured with a lot of energy, it's on the warm side. I would just like more treble. Very good for rock and jazz (and even heavy metal).



Burned in... Burned out means something negative in English.


----------



## robar (Oct 31, 2019)

I've just received my replacement B40 which was kindly sent by NiceHCK for free. This unit has definitely deeper more defined bass than my previous copy  which is officially a lemon now. However, this new one has quite big channel imbalance in the bass/low mids area (4-5dB). One half has a tight, lean bass which reminds me a bit of RY4SUE (I suppose this should be the intended tuning) while the other one has fat boomy shallower bass which is a bit better version of the lemon's curve. I think the problem should be related to tuning foam, maybe the placing or the glue is inconsistent or got misaligned in the shipping process. (crushed box again) I experienced similar effects when I played around with tuning foams in my personal projects, so l believe this should be the problem. I'll try to reapply the tuning foam or completely replace it with something else, and see if it fixes the problem


----------



## rd5rdm

mochill said:


> Shozy xb


Tell me more......  

Cant find any reviews on it besides couple of mentions in suggestion posts. Any links to a review or 2 ?


----------



## rd5rdm

Chris674 said:


> I'd save most of the $100. Get the Venture Electronics Monk+ and the NiceHCK B40. Then you can choose whether you want impressive separation and soundstage (B40) or fantastic mids and very relaxed treble (Monk+). They're both great, staple buds and you'd only be out $20 total for both.


Thank you, I'll like into both. Is there a way I can get all in one - fantastic mids, relaxed treble, soundstange as well as good timbre and tonality ?


----------



## rd5rdm

flamesofarctica said:


> My personal favourite all-rounder with zero harshness, quite mid-focused and great sound across the board is the VE Asura 2.


Thanks ! Concerned as reviews I read mention highs to be bright ? I'll look into more reviews. Any  FR graph to look at?


----------



## flamesofarctica

rd5rdm said:


> Thanks ! Concerned as reviews I read mention highs to be bright ? I'll look into more reviews. Any  FR graph to look at?



That surprises me, I definitely wouldn't put them as bright and I'm quite sensitive to overly bright highs and upper mids. For example the **** PT15 will never darken my ears again! I don't have any graphs myself, I'm just going off my ears. Hopefully someone here can post some graphs (or a link). I'd say they are more mids focused and with greater clarity than the Monk+ and a definite step up.


----------



## rd5rdm

flamesofarctica said:


> That surprises me, I definitely wouldn't put them as bright and I'm quite sensitive to overly bright highs and upper mids. For example the **** PT15 will never darken my ears again! I don't have any graphs myself, I'm just going off my ears. Hopefully someone here can post some graphs (or a link). I'd say they are more mids focused and with greater clarity than the Monk+ and a definite step up.



Got it. I am new to earbuds but as far as IEM's go I found Periodic Be (slight U/V), Sony N3AP (neutral with bass boost) to be too shrill and had to ~5-6dB down at 4 & 8K regins. Its been a long journey through many IEMS to find Final E4000 & 5000 as my preferred sound signature. Hence interested in looking at the FR graph.


----------



## mochill

rd5rdm said:


> Tell me more......
> 
> Cant find any reviews on it besides couple of mentions in suggestion posts. Any links to a review or 2 ?


No review , but they are smooth and natural


----------



## gazzington

Zens omega out of my lotoo paw gold touch sound amazing. The lotoo has enough power for them


----------



## flamesofarctica

rd5rdm said:


> Got it. I am new to earbuds but as far as IEM's go I found Periodic Be (slight U/V), Sony N3AP (neutral with bass boost) to be too shrill and had to ~5-6dB down at 4 & 8K regins. Its been a long journey through many IEMS to find Final E4000 & 5000 as my preferred sound signature. Hence interested in looking at the FR graph.



When I was buying (mostly budget) IEMs I definitely found a lot more shrill options than I have with earbuds, I must say. I don't use IEMs at all any more though.

The suggestion earlier from @Chris674 might be worth a shot, trying some of the current budget earbuds, as there's some surprisingly good stuff out there. I second the Monk+ and the NiceHCK B40 as a great start. It'll give you a chance to see if you like the form factor of earbuds, and they're not too alike. The Monk+ were my intro to how good budget earbuds can be and I still use them pretty regularly. The B40 are a lot more forward sounding. Neither are too bright.


----------



## Jerrsh (Oct 31, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> Here is my Turandot impression:
> 
> Grand and well rounded, warm yet dynamic, sweet but not overly so. The strength of Turandot is in its top notch balance of technicality and musicality, combined with an excellent soundstage. It has almost no weakness to speak of, and a great example of creating the atmosphere of a big can within the confinement of an earbud.


How about k's bell ti vs dqsm turandot..? Which better..?


----------



## oneula

so I received a bunch of inexpensive earbuds from Ali/Amazon
Do any of these require burn in?
I've had them plugged into our classical HiDef public radio station since Monday.
Figured I've give them 5 days of warm up
before plugging them in

16 ohm DIY Earphone PK1
32 ohm **** ****
32 ohm Moondrop ShiroYuki
150 ohm HI-Z AK F150TS
64 ohm FAAEAL Snow Lotus (replaces my broken FAAEAL)
32 ohm FENGRU Tingu TC200
16 ohm MEZE Classic 12 (wood)
32 ohm ADVANCED 1M (for sleeping)
18 ohm RevoNext NEX202
Final Audio E1000
Astrotec Redspace S80 TWS


----------



## mynamekok

Already tested!!
Perfect Perfect Perfect no more word to say.


Enlightenment
I will sale all my earbud to buy second one Turandot and EBX


----------



## MelodyMood

oneula said:


> so I received a bunch of inexpensive earbuds from Ali/Amazon
> Do any of these require burn in?
> I've had them plugged into our classical HiDef public radio station since Monday.
> Figured I've give them 5 days of warm up
> ...



Sir. Many of them are IEM and not Earbuds. And many of them are very expensive ones ($30-40 or above).  Also, does Moondrop ShiroYuki comes with Mic? And Snow Lotus and FAAEL 64 also has Mic and how is the sound signature?


----------



## oneula (Nov 1, 2019)

MelodyMood said:


> Sir. Many of them are IEM and not Earbuds. And many of them are very expensive ones ($30-40 or above).  Also, does Moondrop ShiroYuki comes with Mic? And Snow Lotus and FAAEL 64 also has Mic and how is the sound signature?



I haven't listened to all of them yet
Of the ones I have

At this point the ShiroYuki seems the smoothest
Followed by the FAAEAL
But neither sounded as good as my aging Willsound MK2s or Zen 2s
however for longer listening sessions I'd pick the ShiroYuki
They just disappear in my ears

The MEZE's were boomy but I kind of expected that with their wood shell
The AK F150TS seemed on the bright side compared to my other older HE 150s
based on all the reviews I read, I thought the Final Audio E1000s would blow out the FAAEALs and ShiroYukis but they didn't.
They sounded all about the same
so I'm letting everything burn in for a week before listening to them again this weekend on a bunch of DAPs
I did the same with all my VE and other bud/IEM a while back

Oh and why the mix? Well some of my DAPs like the Zishans and Walnut and other cheaper DAPs work better with earbuds versus IEMS and especially harder to drive earbuds like the znes or HE150s. While other DAPs like the Activo CT10, Tempotec V1A, Shanling M0 and Hiby R3 seemed to like IEMs and easier to drive buds. Just trying to find the right match of player and buds/phones before I package them up and pass them on to friends and family..

None of those I listed have either the clarity and dynamics of the Shuoer Tape, TIN P1 or BLON 03.
But I'm having fit problems (they keep falling out of my ears) with all those three versus the buds covered in foam..

As far as cost, personally I consider the Audiosense T800, DQSM Turandot, Moondrop Chiaconne/Liebeslied or VE Sun Shining as expensive ($200-$700) even though in the audiophile world they are considered dirt cheap


----------



## MelodyMood

oneula said:


> I haven't listened to all of them yet
> Of the ones I have
> 
> At this point the ShiroYuki seems the smoothest
> ...



ShiruYuki looks good but they don't have Mic which is an issue for me. I use my phone to listen to the music and without mic, I cannot buy the earbuds. Is FAAEL Snow Lotus also smooth and warm but have good clarity and bass/sub-bass too? Zen I heard very expensive. You must be millionaire to have such expensive buds in your collections  I cannot even imagine to buy them in my dream too.


----------



## assassin10000

MelodyMood said:


> ShiruYuki looks good but they don't have Mic which is an issue for me. I use my phone to listen to the music and without mic, I cannot buy the earbuds. Is FAAEL Snow Lotus also smooth and warm but have good clarity and bass/sub-bass too? Zen I heard very expensive. You must be millionaire to have such expensive buds in your collections  I cannot even imagine to buy them in my dream too.



Why not get detachable cable earbuds and use a cable that has a mic on them?


----------



## ClieOS

Jerrsh said:


> How about k's bell ti vs dqsm turandot..? Which better..?



Earbuds at such level typically isn't about which is better anymore but more on which fit the taste of the listener better. Both are warm sounding earbuds - Turandot's strength is in its grandness of presentation that resemble of a full size cans, while Bell-Ti has a more delicate treble and detail recovery. To put it simple, Turadot's focus on presentation is more on bass to mid, where Bell-Ti's focus is more on mid to treble.


----------



## flamesofarctica

MelodyMood said:


> ShiruYuki looks good but they don't have Mic which is an issue for me. I use my phone to listen to the music and without mic, I cannot buy the earbuds. Is FAAEL Snow Lotus also smooth and warm but have good clarity and bass/sub-bass too? Zen I heard very expensive. You must be millionaire to have such expensive buds in your collections  I cannot even imagine to buy them in my dream too.



Your requirements are very specific, so it will really limit your options. You may need to  compromise on mic Vs bass Vs clarity Vs price. Why not look at the suggestions you've been given so far, and just pick one or two.

A suggestion from me, it is more of an earpod type but at least it isn't too isolating. The Yincrow RW-100. It has decent enough bass and clarity, has a mic and is inexpensive. 

If you can stretch a bit further maybe order 3, the Yincrow RW-100, the Monk+ with mic and the Vido with mic. That still wouldn't be a massively expensive order, and they are all good earbuds in their own right.


----------



## RuFrost (Nov 1, 2019)

need your advice guys!
I have recabled Sony mdr-e552. Really wonderful earbuds.
1) In stock they sits really great. But the top part which covers the shell went broken on the Left side...it was exchanged to green silicone-like cover, but due to its thickness, it breaks the comfort for my ears making it too large.
2) where the original cover can be bought or found?
3) What else can be done to return its working ability apart from green cover?


----------



## FastAndClean

ClieOS said:


> Earbuds at such level typically isn't about which is better anymore but more on which fit the taste of the listener better. Both are warm sounding earbuds - Turandot's strength is in its grandness of presentation that resemble of a full size cans, while Bell-Ti has a more delicate treble and detail recovery. To put it simple, Turadot's focus on presentation is more on bass to mid, where Bell-Ti's focus is more on mid to treble.


Can you please give me some comparison between DQSM Turandot and Moondrop CHACONNE, i am trying to make a rational decision


----------



## golov17

Coming soon


----------



## ClieOS

FastAndClean said:


> Can you please give me some comparison between DQSM Turandot and Moondrop CHACONNE, i am trying to make a rational decision



Chaconne is a very well composed, and tonally very well balanced earbuds. It has no obvious shortcoming, but also no obvious strength, which kind of makes it slightly on the bland side of things. It is the gentlemen of earbuds, always polite and does what is asked of him, but never more. It has an enduring sound, but perhaps not the most impressive sound on first listen, even though it is no doubt a great sounding earbud technically.


----------



## FastAndClean

ClieOS said:


> Chaconne is a very well composed, and tonally very well balanced earbuds. It has no obvious shortcoming, but also no obvious strength, which kind of makes it slightly on the bland side of things. It is the gentlemen of earbuds, always polite and does what is asked of him, but never more. It has an enduring sound, but perhaps not the most impressive sound on first listen, even though it is no doubt a great sounding earbud technically.


so the DQSM Turandot is more "exiting" type of earbud compared to Chaconne?


----------



## ClieOS

FastAndClean said:


> so the DQSM Turandot is more "exiting" type of earbud compared to Chaconne?



Exciting? Yes. 
Exiting? I am not sure what meaning the word has on earbuds.


----------



## FastAndClean

ClieOS said:


> Exciting? Yes.
> Exiting? I am not sure what meaning the word has on earbuds.


that damn auto correct, exciting yes


----------



## HeadlessChicken

ClieOS said:


> Exciting? Yes.
> Exiting? I am not sure what meaning the word has on earbuds.



It refers to how much money exits the wallet


----------



## oneula

after listening to how great my new FAAEAL snow lotus's sounds compared to everything else I just got I bit the bullet and ordered the Datura Pro. Waiting for the discount isn't worth it plus they already are quoting an end of November delivery. Couldn't do it on the Hibiscus IEM, that might get over run by either the Audiosense T800 or Turandot on 11/11


----------



## robar

Interesting,  so I compared and measured my two B40's and they both had very similar channel imbalances (significantly different sides), with similar curves on same sides. But of course the former one had less bass extension compared to the replacement. I actually mixed them together, so one earbud got the two left speakers and the other got the two right, then I fiddled with tuning foams. Now they both have at least similar curves on the channels, but still both have couple of dB differences. I don't really understand the QC on these buds, I've never seen anything like this


----------



## mbwilson111

robar said:


> Interesting,  so I compared and measured my two B40's and they both had very similar channel imbalances (significantly different sides), with similar curves on same sides. But of course the former one had less bass extension compared to the replacement. I actually mixed them together, so one earbud got the two left speakers and the other got the two right, then I fiddled with tuning foams. Now they both have at least similar curves on the channels, but still both have couple of dB differences. I don't really understand the QC on these buds, I've never seen anything like this



I have no problems with either of my two B40s.


----------



## dharmasteve

I ordered the 'earbuds anonymous' buds,  and they should arrive in a couple of days.  Anyone have them?  Made me sit and listen to the B40s.  They are still so good for the cost.


----------



## groucho69

dharmasteve said:


> I ordered the 'earbuds anonymous' buds,  and they should arrive in a couple of days.  Anyone have them?  Made me sit and listen to the B40s.  They are still so good for the cost.



Only just got my EA buds but I like what I hear. Decent bass, clear mids and reasonable highs. Warm and engaging.


----------



## dharmasteve (Nov 1, 2019)

groucho69 said:


> Only just got my EA buds but I like what I hear. Decent bass, clear mids and reasonable highs. Warm and engaging.



Happy making,  good news.  Thank you.


----------



## robar (Nov 1, 2019)

groucho69 said:


> Only just got my EA buds but I like what I hear. Decent bass, clear mids and reasonable highs. Warm and engaging.


Is it good for the 25usd they ask for them? From the looks and reviews it seems like a regular 10 bucks earbud to me. Cheap generic shell and cable, it must sound very good to justify the price



mbwilson111 said:


> I have no problems with either of my two B40s.


Good for you  It seems PK-shell buds are cursed for me


----------



## citral23

Given how small the P1 driver is I was wondering today if it would be possible to make planar earbuds


----------



## waynes world

groucho69 said:


> Only just got my EA buds but I like what I hear. Decent bass, clear mids and reasonable highs. Warm and engaging.



Do you have the B40's?


----------



## groucho69

waynes world said:


> Do you have the B40's?



Yup. Like the EA more and find it a better value IMHO. Especially at 50% off.


----------



## groucho69

robar said:


> Is it good for the 25usd they ask for them? From the looks and reviews it seems like a regular 10 bucks earbud to me. Cheap generic shell and cable, it must sound very good to justify the price
> 
> 
> Good for you  It seems PK-shell buds are cursed for me



$25 is half off. Doesn't seem cheap at all to me. I have much more expensive buds that don't seem to have better shells to me. I would still be happy had I paid full price. YMMV.


----------



## waynes world

groucho69 said:


> Yup. Like the EA more and find it a better value IMHO. Especially at 50% off.





groucho69 said:


> $25 is half off. Doesn't seem cheap at all to me. I have much more expensive buds that don't seem to have better shells to me. I would still be happy had I paid full price. YMMV.



It almost seems like you have unlocked the secret to influencing my "buy now" impulses.

Pretty soon you'll have me buying these headphones:


----------



## groucho69

waynes world said:


> It almost seems like you have unlocked the secret to influencing my "buy now" impulses.
> 
> Pretty soon you'll have me buying these headphones:



You know I have those on order, right?


----------



## groucho69

@waynes world this sounds fantastic with the EA on like 1 hour burn in


----------



## waynes world

groucho69 said:


> @waynes world this sounds fantastic with the EA on like 1 hour burn in




I just started listening to Snarky Puppy recently. I'm sure I haven't shared that info with anyone. It's gotta be a coincidence, right? If not, it's yet another sign lol.


----------



## groucho69 (Nov 1, 2019)

waynes world said:


> I just started listening to Snarky Puppy recently. I'm sure I haven't shared that info with anyone. It's gotta be a coincidence, right? If not, it's yet another sign lol.



I am a witch...I can hear detail even with my old ears


----------



## Chris674

groucho69 said:


> @waynes world this sounds fantastic with the EA on like 1 hour burn in



Seriously! I just got mine tonight also. I put them in my ears and immediately thought that I wouldn't like them. Thirty minutes later and they're sounding really amazing. I put the B40 away. No point in comparing them. They're way different. This has got so much punch and warmth in the bass. Might be my bassiest bud. Taking out the Kube and Sabia V6 to compare.


----------



## Chris674

rd5rdm said:


> Thank you, I'll like into both. Is there a way I can get all in one - fantastic mids, relaxed treble, soundstange as well as good timbre and tonality ?


I think you'd be surprised what you get even in a low end bud. The Monk doesn't have an impressive soundstage but the intimate stage with the  extreme warmth of the mids is really engaging. Reminds me of the sound from the conductors podium or listening to an ensemble in a small hall.  They're my go to for classical chamber ensembles, vocals and jazz. $5!


----------



## seanc6441

citral23 said:


> Given how small the P1 driver is I was wondering today if it would be possible to make planar earbuds


ClieOS has done it. Although it took him a lot of tuning to get any bass response given the lack of seal.

It's in his diy project thread.


----------



## robar (Nov 1, 2019)

groucho69 said:


> $25 is half off. Doesn't seem cheap at all to me. I have much more expensive buds that don't seem to have better shells to me. I would still be happy had I paid full price. YMMV.


Okay I respect your opinion. I was just quite surprised at the “build construction is unique and classy” statement because the shell and cable are just basic generic items that worth 4usd at most even if you buy them at aliexpress (shell - 0.4usd per pair, cable - looks like any 3-4usd budget braided cable). I had multiple earbuds with that shell, the first was a stock bud for a cheap mp4 player 10 years ago, others may know it from RY4X. So the speakers and the tuning should live up to that extra 20 bucks, which I'm a bit skeptical about, that's why I'm interested how it sounds compared to other 20-30usd buds, or even to budget stuff like B40, Qian69 etc


----------



## waynes world

Chris674 said:


> Seriously! I just got mine tonight also. I put them in my ears and immediately thought that I wouldn't like them. Thirty minutes later and they're sounding really amazing. I put the B40 away. No point in comparing them. They're way different. This has got so much punch and warmth in the bass. Might be my bassiest bud. Taking out the Kube and Sabia V6 to compare.



_"Taking out the Kube and Sabia V6 to compare"._  Don't be shy!


----------



## Jerrsh

ClieOS said:


> Earbuds at such level typically isn't about which is better anymore but more on which fit the taste of the listener better. Both are warm sounding earbuds - Turandot's strength is in its grandness of presentation that resemble of a full size cans, while Bell-Ti has a more delicate treble and detail recovery. To put it simple, Turadot's focus on presentation is more on bass to mid, where Bell-Ti's focus is more on mid to treble.



How about comparison the vocal from both.?


----------



## ClieOS

Jerrsh said:


> How about comparison the vocal from both.?



Vocal is kind of the strength of Turandot: sweet, forwarded and intimated. Bell-Ti's vocal isn't bad either, but it is more neutral in flavor.


----------



## Chris674

waynes world said:


> _"Taking out the Kube and Sabia V6 to compare"._  Don't be shy!


That was a difficult comparison. It's definitely a different signature overall from both. I'd say the Vido would be a sound signature comparison. It's a SUPER upgraded Vido. Bass is similar to the Kube in warmth but not speed. It has as much bass as but doesn't have the bite of the Sabia. The bass dominates the sound signature BUT it doesn't touch the mids at all. They're so crystal clear. The separation is actually really amazing. Sounds like the bass is wrapped around the vocals with the treble floating on top. It has made a lot of my collection obsolete, in my mind. Things that I've really enjoyed now sound really plain and boring. Not saying that it's TOTL (because I don't have any TOTL to compare it to) but it is exactly the kind of improvement I would expect to see from the modest leap in price. I agree that I'd have been happy paying full price for them. Having them half price definitely made them a more palatable risk.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

groucho69 said:


> Only just got my EA buds but I like what I hear. Decent bass, clear mids and reasonable highs. Warm and engaging.
> Like the EA more and find it a better value IMHO. Especially at 50% off
> $25 is half off. Doesn't seem cheap at all to me. I have much more expensive buds that don't seem to have better shells to me. I would still be happy had I paid full price. YMMV.



I was so nervous to hear initial impressions.  I am glad you liked it.  I tried my best to find a fun, yet good quality sound.



Chris674 said:


> Seriously! I just got mine tonight also. I put them in my ears and immediately thought that I wouldn't like them. Thirty minutes later and they're sounding really amazing. I put the B40 away. No point in comparing them. They're way different. This has got so much punch and warmth in the bass. Might be my bassiest bud. Taking out the Kube and Sabia V6 to compare.
> That was a difficult comparison. It's definitely a different signature overall from both. I'd say the Vido would be a sound signature comparison. It's a SUPER upgraded Vido. Bass is similar to the Kube in warmth but not speed. It has as much bass as but doesn't have the bite of the Sabia. The bass dominates the sound signature BUT it doesn't touch the mids at all. They're so crystal clear. The separation is actually really amazing. Sounds like the bass is wrapped around the vocals with the treble floating on top. It has made a lot of my collection obsolete, in my mind. Things that I've really enjoyed now sound really plain and boring. Not saying that it's TOTL (because I don't have any TOTL to compare it to) but it is exactly the kind of improvement I would expect to see from the modest leap in price. I agree that I'd have been happy paying full price for them. Having them half price definitely made them a more palatable risk.



So awesome to hear.  I wanted warmth and bass.  Something easy on the ears.  



robar said:


> Okay I respect your opinion. I was just quite surprised at the “build construction is unique and classy” statement.



By "Classy" I meant a simple design.  Though I totally get where you are coming from.


----------



## groucho69

BloodyPenguin said:


> I was so nervous to hear initial impressions.  I am glad you liked it.  I tried my best to find a fun, yet good quality sound.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Classy and elegant. Best value for sure.


----------



## dharmasteve

BloodyPenguin said:


> I was so nervous to hear initial impressions.  I am glad you liked it.  I tried my best to find a fun, yet good quality sound.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mine are in Langley UK (Heathrow) so I should get them Monday/Tuesday. Why do people call IEMs or Buds 'fun'? For some reason I find that derogatory towards the sound of earphones. I hope they are really great sounding and stand comparison with 'non-fun' buds. Mind you I don't think I know what fun is. I'm also getting another pair of Blon 03's from Amazon on Monday.....a tough comparison.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

dharmasteve said:


> Mine are in Langley UK (Heathrow) so I should get them Monday/Tuesday. Why do people call IEMs or Buds 'fun'? For some reason I find that derogatory towards the sound of earphones. I hope they are really great sounding and stand comparison with 'non-fun' buds. Mind you I don't think I know what fun is. I'm also getting another pair of Blon 03's from Amazon on Monday.....a tough comparison.



By "Fun" I mean an enjoyable earbud that does not take itself to seriously.  Thus why I wanted a bit of warmth and smooth highs.  Though IMO, it has detail to provide a quality playback, though that is up to others to decide.


----------



## Chris674

dharmasteve said:


> Mine are in Langley UK (Heathrow) so I should get them Monday/Tuesday. Why do people call IEMs or Buds 'fun'? For some reason I find that derogatory towards the sound of earphones. I hope they are really great sounding and stand comparison with 'non-fun' buds. Mind you I don't think I know what fun is. I'm also getting another pair of Blon 03's from Amazon on Monday.....a tough comparison.



I'm considering getting another pair of Blons also. That would be tough to compare. The Blons are just really good at everything. I wanted to be skeptical of them but the more I listen I can't find any obvious flaws. This is more of a complimentary sound. Put the Blons away for the day. You, probably, won't regret it.


----------



## Alypius

Still eagerly awaiting my ST-10s! I did nab a JDS Atom amp while I was at it, so I've been playing with that as much as I can. The problem is that my headphones are Beyerdynamic 600 Ohm (T1, DT990) that are normally driven by my modded Bottlehead Crack. It would be incredibly unfair to make a comparison (but, yes, the Atom will drive a 600-Ohm can. It will not be nearly as effortless as my Crack, but that's to be expected from an amp that costs 1/8-1/10). I plugged in my Fidue A83's and the Atom performed admirably! I will note that it is rather unforgiving of crappy recordings. I loved listening to Meatloaf's "Going All The Way Is Just The Start" in my car (Lexus GS350 F-Sport; Mark Levinson audio system) but it was thin and reedy through the Atom. I played "When I Go" by Keaton Simons and a couple of other robust recordings and they all played perfectly fine, meaning the little Atom is quite capable when properly fed. 

I know this thread is for earbuds, but I wanted to establish a baseline for when my ST-10s arrive.


----------



## groucho69

BloodyPenguin said:


> By "Fun" I mean an enjoyable earbud that does not take itself to seriously.  Thus why I wanted a bit of warmth and smooth highs.  Though IMO, it has detail to provide a quality playback, though that is up to others to decide.



And it succeeded.


----------



## spencexxx

I've read and searched. 
I'm used to: Fiio FH7, Denon D7000, I LOVE the weird separation and detail of my AKG K340. I need some rumble and sub-bass. I like the sound of the 1000SE / LCD4z.
 I like things with detail and a present bass. Not boomy or mushy bass. I'd be happy if vocals sounded natural too. 
In other words: A bass-leaning hi-fi sound.  Like a Legend X (obviously without THAT amount of bass...unless that's a 'thing") But that QUALITY of bass.

It seems the ST-10 is well loved, but 2 people said the bass distorts.
The Rose Masya Pro looks interesting, as does the Mojito (which is pretty pricey)
K600 - at 600ohm I'm not sure what it'd sound like on the road from a V40.
KP110 - maybe bested by ST-10?

There is so much info here to read, and I'm learning, but I would appreciate tips.
Budget: under 150


----------



## HungryPanda

K's 64 or K's 200 would suit the V40 more


----------



## Alex.Grimm

oneula said:


> The AK F150TS seemed on the bright side compared to my other older HE 150s


Really ?  I did not like HE 150Pro, but I wanted to try F150TS


----------



## mbwilson111

Alex.Grimm said:


> Really ?  I did not like HE 150Pro, but I wanted to try F150TS




If that F150TS is the red/blue one I have it and enjoy it.

Source needs to power 150 ohm comfortably.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 3, 2019)

spencexxx said:


> I've read and searched.
> I'm used to: Fiio FH7, Denon D7000, I LOVE the weird separation and detail of my AKG K340. I need some rumble and sub-bass. I like the sound of the 1000SE / LCD4z.
> I like things with detail and a present bass. Not boomy or mushy bass. I'd be happy if vocals sounded natural too.
> In other words: A bass-leaning hi-fi sound.  Like a Legend X (obviously without THAT amount of bass...unless that's a 'thing") But that QUALITY of bass.
> ...



Go for whichever earbud is recommended as having the best low end extension and control, then EQ it as flat as possible. (It wont be near flat but will at least have presence down to maybe 40hz before dropping off)

That's the only way you will get bass that will be as close to linear as possible for this form factor when you've heard such things like an LCD 4z which i assume is near perfectly flat in the low end.

Anything else will just sound flabby or will lack extension as good bass is not easy to come by in earbuds without a lot of good tuning work.

Something cheap like the Vido/Kube V1 would be a good starting point as it has good extension and is prime for EQ.

The ST-10 has apperantly good extension for an earbud too and would have a more controlled tuning than the two i mentioned above. But its also like 70$.

No point in spending 150 and being disappointed by the bass response.


----------



## oneula

mbwilson111 said:


> If that F150TS is the red/blue one I have it and enjoy it.
> 
> Source needs to power 150 ohm comfortably.



don't seem to get as much bass out of the blue red F150TS compared to my older HE 150pro both cables suck though always sticking to each other and tangling at the bud side. need to replace the cables


----------



## ClieOS

spencexxx said:


> I
> It seems the ST-10 is well loved, but 2 people said the bass distorts.



The are three version of ST-10 so far - the original being the most neutral sounding of them all, with a small number of them suffered from tolerance issue on the MMCX socket. The 1st reversion adopted a new MMCX socket, but also a slightly warmer (though still mostly neutral) sound. Again, a small number reported bass distortion on high volume, likely arise from tolerance issue but this time it is from housing/driver. Currently I believe it is on 2nd reversion, meant to address bass distortion tolerance, and the tuning is somewhere between the original and the 2nd reversion, all very subtle but the last reversion is perhaps the most balanced of them all. I actually have all three versions (*as crazy as it sounds, I like to collect more than 1 pair of a particular earbud if I really like it ) and lucky none of them has any issue. I do believe Smabat will repair / replace your ST-10 if you face any of the issue mentioned above.


----------



## MelodyMood

assassin10000 said:


> Why not get detachable cable earbuds and use a cable that has a mic on them?


I did not find any good one and most of them are very expensive already.


----------



## MelodyMood

flamesofarctica said:


> Your requirements are very specific, so it will really limit your options. You may need to  compromise on mic Vs bass Vs clarity Vs price. Why not look at the suggestions you've been given so far, and just pick one or two.
> 
> A suggestion from me, it is more of an earpod type but at least it isn't too isolating. The Yincrow RW-100. It has decent enough bass and clarity, has a mic and is inexpensive.
> 
> If you can stretch a bit further maybe order 3, the Yincrow RW-100, the Monk+ with mic and the Vido with mic. That still wouldn't be a massively expensive order, and they are all good earbuds in their own right.


I will order Monk+. Not sure about Vido but ordering FiiO EM3S with Mic. And the ones I posted earlier (A6). Not sure about Yincrow RW-100 as it does not look like Earbud and more like new Apple Earbuds which goes inside the ear with rounded shape but they are very very uncomfortable.


----------



## MelodyMood

oneula said:


> after listening to how great my new FAAEAL snow lotus's sounds compared to everything else I just got I bit the bullet and ordered the Datura Pro. Waiting for the discount isn't worth it plus they already are quoting an end of November delivery. Couldn't do it on the Hibiscus IEM, that might get over run by either the Audiosense T800 or Turandot on 11/11


Snow Lotus 1.0 or 2.0? How is the sound?


----------



## Jsingh4

so Guys VE Zen LL are available, any idea how are they?


----------



## flamesofarctica (Nov 4, 2019)

Also interested re the Zen LL. How it compares to the Zen 2, Asura 2 and Monk Lite 120. As it's more expensive than the Zen 2!

Although I can't afford it at the moment - just ordered myself a spare Asura 2 (actually, this will be my first Asura 2s so will be interesting to see if the cable makes any difference). I was going to try the Omega, but I'm sure I've read people saying they prefer the standard fixed cable version?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

oneula said:


> don't seem to get as much bass out of the blue red F150TS compared to my older HE 150pro both cables suck though always sticking to each other and tangling at the bud side. need to replace the cables





mbwilson111 said:


> If that F150TS is the red/blue one I have it and enjoy it. Source needs to power 150 ohm comfortably.



Maybe someone has both to compare TY Hi-Z F150TS vs TY Hi-Z HP150S and say where the sound is better?


----------



## Jerrsh

ClieOS said:


> Vocal is kind of the strength of Turandot: sweet, forwarded and intimated. Bell-Ti's vocal isn't bad either, but it is more neutral in flavor.



look great. and can you describe about chaconne and liebeslied vocal. i hope i can buy turandot last year


----------



## HeadlessChicken

Jsingh4 said:


> so Guys VE Zen LL are available, any idea how are they?





flamesofarctica said:


> Also interested re the Zen LL. How it compares to the Zen 2, Asura 2 and Monk Lite 120. As it's more expensive than the Zen 2!
> 
> Although I can't afford it at the moment - just ordered myself a spare Asura 2 (actually, this will be my first Asura 2s so will be interesting to see if the cable makes any difference). I was going to try the Omega, but I'm sure I've read people saying they prefer the standard fixed cable version?



I've ordered one set in 3.5mm... Right now they are in transit, somewhere in my home country. I hope the post office workers don't take the initiative to burn in my set for me. Otherwise, if it takes too long to arrive, I will become too busy in the next 30-odd days or so to have an extended listening session with them


----------



## oneula

MelodyMood said:


> Snow Lotus 1.0 or 2.0? How is the sound?



v 1.0
like them allot 
right next to my Willsound MK2s
they are smoother than the Monk Plus
no emphasis in the lows or highs but really good mids(vocal clarity)


----------



## oneula

HeadlessChicken said:


> I've ordered one set in 3.5mm... Right now they are in transit, somewhere in my home country. I hope the post office workers don't take the initiative to burn in my set for me. Otherwise, if it takes too long to arrive, I will become too busy in the next 30-odd days or so to have an extended listening session with them



I pretty much have most of the VE line with the exception of the higher end stuff like the blacks and whites
The zen LL are geared more for vocals with not allot of bass or super highs
I had the original which was super slim and light which I destroyed to get the new upgraded version at a discount
I also ordered the new sun with their upgrade package from the biggie/smalls or BIE

I also have the zen LL with the odyssey HD built in and USB connector but haven't tried those yet
for a daily driver the BIE is a good choice I use that now instead my biggie/smalls for in ears

but for something light on the ear the zens, asuras(which I don't have) and monkpluses are better
I have the zen2 terminated in 2.5 balanced and the ZOE with their soft blue cable
WIth the right power source like the VE amps they really sound the best of all of my buds.


----------



## flamesofarctica (Nov 4, 2019)

oneula said:


> I pretty much have most of the VE line with the exception of the higher end stuff like the blacks and whites
> The zen LL are geared more for vocals with not allot of bass or super highs
> I had the original which was super slim and light which I destroyed to get the new upgraded version at a discount
> I also ordered the new sun with their upgrade package from the biggie/smalls or BIE
> ...



You should get the Asura to complete the set  I don't have the Zen black / white they're too expensive for me to have ever considered. I couldn't believe I forked out for the Zen 2 in fact - they're awesome though. A bit more awkward than some because of the no foams aspect, keeping them in is fine so long as I'm staying put.


----------



## MelodyMood

oneula said:


> v 1.0
> like them allot
> right next to my Willsound MK2s
> they are smoother than the Monk Plus
> no emphasis in the lows or highs but really good mids(vocal clarity)


Ok. But do they have decent Lows and Highs? Better than Monk+ or more or less similar?


----------



## BlacLord

ClieOS said:


> Maturity is the first thing to come to mind. The Datura-X has a warm and rather bassy sound - fun in a sense. Datura-Pro on the other hand has a calm, almost neutral but still warmish sound. Mid-range is still the focus of the presentation, but better tonal balance and thus better accuracy. Definitely the best Faaeal so far. The earpiece housing is also made out of a lighter metal this time, which is a plus as Datura-X is a bit heavy IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm looking for some new buds now that both my MX580 and Monk+ have both worn out, and I wanted to go a little higher. I've been looking at the KP120, and was wondering if you consider that a "mid level" bud?

Thanks.


----------



## oneula

MelodyMood said:


> Ok. But do they have decent Lows and Highs? Better than Monk+ or more or less similar?


The Monk Plus is allot more v-shaped much more lively, fun sound. What I would imagine a "Beats" influenced sound in a bud. The Willsound has lows but it's not as noticeable.

To my ears
The Monk Plus tastes like either a maitai with an umbrella or a guiness stout 
The Willsound Mk2 tastes like a shot of Louis XIII

depends on what your are in the mood for
neither are bad

years ago when I first put on the monks 
its was like whoa!
I think that's usually everyone's first impression when you take them out of their wrapper/case and plug them in.
they are usually an unexpected surprise

The willsounds are harder to acquire 
so you are already anticipating something for either the trouble or the wait
to get them from indonesia

There's allot of good buds coming out of there and singapore has the Blurs if you can get them.


----------



## MelodyMood (Nov 4, 2019)

oneula said:


> The Monk Plus is allot more v-shaped much more lively, fun sound. What I would imagine a "Beats" influenced sound in a bud. The Willsound has lows but it's not as noticeable.
> 
> To my ears
> The Monk Plus tastes like either a maitai with an umbrella or a guiness stout
> ...



Monk+ is good but lacks Bass badly. I would say no bass at all and if the sound is now warm, it will be impossible to listen actually.  I have TP16 which are good but I want slightly more Clarity with Warmness and slight more Bass and also little sub-bass. 
I am ordering few earbuds including FiiO EM3S and A6 on 11.11.

Here are the links:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33043716825.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.1b653c00UFfSqq&mp=1
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000282951150.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.6f223c00W7k2do&mp=1 (Not sure how is the sound as no review available. Same for above too)


----------



## grayfedora

What foams do you guys use? The ones that ship with the earbuds keeps tearing upon application.. the red ones usually. Black foams go on fine. Are there any difference between foam quality or is it just my technique?


----------



## Chris674

grayfedora said:


> What foams do you guys use? The ones that ship with the earbuds keeps tearing upon application.. the red ones usually. Black foams go on fine. Are there any difference between foam quality or is it just my technique?


I've had the same problem with red foams. Specifically Faaeal red foams. The best advice I've read has been to give them a little stretch in all directions before trying to put them on. Definitely gives you more space to work in.


----------



## oneula

There are other versions of the Willsound MK2 available
if you want more bass there's the Willsound MK2 VJC version

Along with the Willsound M2 MMCX  I also picked up the Willsound MK32-8 and to my ears it seems to have some decent bass (listening to them with "Hypnotize" by Audioslave and "Bahia Funk" by Lee Ritenour on my Cayin N3).

I would presume the MK2 JVC has even more bass but that shell design must have limitations without some creative porting.
But these are $40-$50+ earbuds and not $10 shoebox buds like the Monk Pluses

And that's why I ended up pairing the HE150 Pros with my Zishan and Walnuts. Initially I  was just going to include the Monk Plus's with the phone mic and controls.
You get a better sense of bass through those earbuds compared to either the Monks or Mk2s (although the MK32-8s come close)

For less than $60 USD you can get a pretty decent op-amp rollable ultra portable Z3 DAP with either a AK4490 or AK4493 chip and a set of pretty decent earbuds (HE150 Pro). Instant on, support for up to a 256 MicroSD, EQ and line out. For less than $50 you can get a Walnut V2s which is even more powerful with the same buds and have an eye opening listening experience if your phone and some cheap bluetooth buds were all you were using till then.


----------



## oneula

Chris674 said:


> I've had the same problem with red foams. Specifically Faaeal red foams. The best advice I've read has been to give them a little stretch in all directions before trying to put them on. Definitely gives you more space to work in.



Yup 
been struggling foaming all my new earbuds this weekend
kept thinking to myself there's got to be trick to this because trying to get it in that little hole and having it fly off was driving me crazy
and then of course you'd rip it by pulling too hard


----------



## Mhog55

Can anyone comment as to the differences between the Willsound mmcx, mk2 and mk3? I read some brief description that the mk3 was more mid forward. How does the bass and treble differ between the two?


----------



## ClieOS

BlacLord said:


> I've been looking at the KP120, and was wondering if you consider that a "mid level" bud?
> 
> Thanks.



Yes.


----------



## Mhog55

ClieOS said:


> Yes.


What is the comfort like with these? The connectors seem to be in a strange location, as though they might squeeze your earlobes.


----------



## ClieOS

Mhog55 said:


> What is the comfort like with these? The connectors seem to be in a strange location, as though they might squeeze your earlobes.



Fit is fairly normal, nothing discomfort about it.


----------



## Infoseeker (Nov 5, 2019)

E1da 9038s has amazing synergy with my Simphonio Dragon 2+.

Brings out treble micro details really well.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Mhog55 said:


> Can anyone comment as to the differences between the Willsound mmcx, mk2 and mk3? I read some brief description that the mk3 was more mid forward. How does the bass and treble differ between the two?





Spoiler



https://aftersoundblog.wordpress.co...son-english-vers-mk1-mk2-mk3-mk300-pk16-pk32/


----------



## Mhog55

Alex.Grimm said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> https://aftersoundblog.wordpress.co...son-english-vers-mk1-mk2-mk3-mk300-pk16-pk32/


Thank you. I had just read this earlier. I think the mk2 is the one that would suit me best.


----------



## Infoseeker (Nov 5, 2019)

Received my Tourandots, they have way more bass than the Simphonio Dragon 2+.  Much much more on the Harman tuning. Voices and mids are forward, even male voices. Treble does not get lost to the background.

But the bass in the Simphonio is way tighter and controlled.



It doesn't have the speaker-like separation and speed of the Simphonio Dragon 2+. Which makes the Simphonio better with a few genres. 

The Tourandots still has a more enjoyable sound for most genres, especially if you want bass. The bass is forward enough to wear them without a foam cover.

The bass can sound very uncontrolled with static in certain recordings like it's clipping. I should try another source device.

Edit: yeah it was simply clipping from too much power. Worked better with the E1da in iem mode.


----------



## noknok23

Infoseeker said:


> Received my Tourandots, they have way more bass than the Simphonio Dragon 2+.  Much much more on the Harman tuning. Voices and kids are forward. Treble does not get lost to the background.
> 
> But the bass in the Simphonio is way tighter and controlled.
> 
> ...


Very helpful feedback, I have swd2+ and was considering the Turandots.
Maybe the clipping appears because the unit needs a bit of burn-in? Could you update a few days later?
I have a very heavy bass test track and not many earphones can handle it. Would you mind telling me if the turandot can do it without distortion/clipping?

Many thanks.


----------



## Infoseeker (Nov 5, 2019)

noknok23 said:


> Very helpful feedback, I have swd2+ and was considering the Turandots.
> Maybe the clipping appears because the unit needs a bit of burn-in? Could you update a few days later?
> I have a very heavy bass test track and not many earphones can handle it. Would you mind telling me if the turandot can do it without distortion/clipping?
> 
> Many thanks.





Yeah, after changing the mode in my E1da they handled that track no problem.

Still I don't know if their bass have so little control that they sound clipped at high volume.

It seems iem-mode puts a volume limit. The Simphonio can go pretty loud without sounding buzzy.

Putting the Tourandots into my Hiby R6 Pro also clips them at high enough volume. But the clipping volume is not that much higher to listening volume.

These officially have a wierd bass to me. Hopefully  Burn-in can have enough of an influence for these. The bass is kind of monotonous.


----------



## Infoseeker

How am I supposed to know if this bass is intended or if I received lemons?


----------



## kingdixon

Mhog55 said:


> Can anyone comment as to the differences between the Willsound mmcx, mk2 and mk3? I read some brief description that the mk3 was more mid forward. How does the bass and treble differ between the two?



well, i didn't a/b them direclty , so i can't tell you a detailed difference but in general i like the mk2 better, they sound fuller with harder hitting bass more fun and musicality, the mk3 takes a more balanced approach with decent but less bass.

will is offering now mk32 which he thinks is the best right now, but i still haven't tried that.

you can get mmcx of any of them mk2,mk3,mk32 they should sound the same, but the mk2 and mk3 i had where from rholupat with vjc cable, i found the mmcx version with my cables sounding cleaner, so if you have some cables lying around, you can try mmcx

also if you have a balanced source, mmcx would be your better choice to use with balanced cables.


----------



## Infoseeker

mynamekok said:


> Already tested!!
> Perfect Perfect Perfect no more word to say.
> 
> 
> ...



Can you tell me if I have received lemons or is the flabby/buzzy bass intended?


----------



## Infoseeker

ClieOS said:


> It can reach deep but quantitatively it is not a bass heavy earbud. I'll call it just a bit north of neutral.



I received my Tourandots, and the bass can go from not enough, to good, to buzzy/flabby in three clicks of volume.

Do I have lemons?


----------



## ClieOS

The first question should be, do you have a good fit? Try some donut foam / full foam first and see if they improves the sound / fit.


----------



## EagleWings (Nov 5, 2019)

@ClieOS , I am interested in getting the K’s Bell-Ti 120Ohm. As I do not have prior experience with earbuds, I was thinking we could use the ER4S as our common reference. I find the ER4S to be intense in the uppe-mids (3-4kHz), bright in the treble, too neutral in bass, analytical in sound and having a closed-in soundstage. I also don’t like completely toned down upper-mids either, like on the Andromeda or IE800S. 

Given these preferences, would the Bell-Ti work for me? Thanks in advance.


----------



## oneula

kingdixon said:


> well, i didn't a/b them direclty , so i can't tell you a detailed difference but in general i like the mk2 better, they sound fuller with harder hitting bass more fun and musicality, the mk3 takes a more balanced approach with decent but less bass.
> 
> will is offering now mk32 which he thinks is the best right now, but i still haven't tried that.
> 
> ...




I have the 32s with the stiff black cable
I kind of like them over the MK2 MMCX by just a tad.
The stiff black cable is a little annoying but the buds sound great


----------



## citral23

TO400s : those are now my favorite earbuds out of BK2, EBX, and TO200.

They are not night and day with the TO200 (which needed quite a bit of burn-in contrary to the TO400s to my surprise, I'm extremely skeptical about this to say the least) but display a bit better extension both on the low and high-end, which make for a more complete sound. I'd say they are only 5% better, but 5% is a lot in a way.

Anyway, I don't think I'll get the TO180, seems redundant, but still eyeing the TO600, maybe it's worth another slight improvement?


----------



## gc335

I just ordered the Earbuds Anonymous buds.  They should be here on Thursday. Looking forward to it.

I was really into the bud game a while ago but sold most of my collection to move to IEMs.  I still have my Monks which I really like.  

Does anyone have a $75-$100 earbud that is well rounded and good for most music?  One of my favorite buds was the Shozy Stardust but I don't feel like spending that right now.  Plus, I didn't have much luck with Shozy QC.


----------



## Mhog55

kingdixon said:


> well, i didn't a/b them direclty , so i can't tell you a detailed difference but in general i like the mk2 better, they sound fuller with harder hitting bass more fun and musicality, the mk3 takes a more balanced approach with decent but less bass.
> 
> will is offering now mk32 which he thinks is the best right now, but i still haven't tried that.
> 
> ...


Yes, I already have a 2.5mm balanced mmcx cable. I'll have to look into the MK32. From your description, the mk2 seems to be the best fit for me.


----------



## HungryPanda

gc335 said:


> I just ordered the Earbuds Anonymous buds.  They should be here on Thursday. Looking forward to it.
> 
> I was really into the bud game a while ago but sold most of my collection to move to IEMs.  I still have my Monks which I really like.
> 
> Does anyone have a $75-$100 earbud that is well rounded and good for most music?  One of my favorite buds was the Shozy Stardust but I don't feel like spending that right now.  Plus, I didn't have much luck with Shozy QC.


Smabat ST-10 would be my rec


----------



## gc335

HungryPanda said:


> Smabat ST-10 would be my rec


Thanks for the rec! I’ll check them out.


----------



## mynamekok

Infoseeker said:


> Can you tell me if I have received lemons or is the flabby/buzzy bass intended?



Where did you bought it?


----------



## Infoseeker

mynamekok said:


> Where did you bought it?



Via an AliExpress store.

US $197.10  19%OFF | 2019 DQSM Turandot Flagship Earbud HIFI Metal CNC Earphone 13.5mm N52 CNT Dynamic MX980 PK1 PK2 ST-10 RW-1000 PK 2.5mm Balanced
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/pe0ipXBa


----------



## Infoseeker

ClieOS said:


> The first question should be, do you have a good fit? Try some donut foam / full foam first and see if they improves the sound / fit.



Of course, these fit really well. They are fit better than the Dragon Simphonio oddly. Maybe because the metal is smoother and held by its weight.

Just the bass has a wierd pickiness to volume.


----------



## ClieOS

Infoseeker said:


> Just the bass has a wierd pickiness to volume.



Can't say I hear any pickiness in mine.


----------



## ClieOS

EagleWings said:


> @ClieOS , I am interested in getting the K’s Bell-Ti 120Ohm. As I do not have prior experience with earbuds, I was thinking we could use the ER4S as our common reference. I find the ER4S to be intense in the uppe-mids (3-4kHz), bright in the treble, too neutral in bass, analytical in sound and having a closed-in soundstage. I also don’t like completely toned down upper-mids either, like on the Andromeda or IE800S.
> 
> Given these preferences, would the Bell-Ti work for me? Thanks in advance.



Bell-Ti high impedance version will be almost the opposite of ER4S, being rather on the warm and smooth side of things. The tuning resembles that of VE Zen 2.0, but more refined and not nearly as picky about the source.


----------



## HeadlessChicken




----------



## subwoof3r

Enjoying my own "GXaudio MX130B"


----------



## robar (Nov 6, 2019)

To join the club, here's my newest “N50 32ohm steel mesh" build  Very fun character, big and bold, slightly v-shaped. Big warm punchy bass, smooth and close to natural mids and highs, 3D-like soundstage. It's my favorite right now, very pleasant overall. Just a little extra emphasis around 3-5k so nothing extraordinary, I need to tame that range with most of my buds anyway. I'll also try to adjust the tuning foam for cleaner bass because it bleeds into mids a bit, so there is room for improvement. (just 1-2dB, easily EQ-d out) For 4usd plus cable it's already amazing in my opinion, with my usual little EQ adjustment it's almost flawless for a fun bassy/balanced signature. I consider it a cheap but big upgrade from the likes of Vidos, Qians etc.

edit: for example compared to Qian69: N50 has bigger and much deeper bass, more extended airy highs, better dynamics, much improved clarity/details. Basically Qian69 is muffled, soft and shallow in comparison. N50 has slightly more clarity added to vocals but the overall curve is smoother. Only pro of Qian69 is that it has slightly less peak at around 4khz but it's similar overall and needs EQ as well so not that big of a deal. (my ears are sensitive to that range not sure if it applies to other peope)
I use it in stock tuning at the moment, so tuning foam is only on drivers, there is nothing on the vents directly.


----------



## HungryPanda

My latest build, DP100 shells, old 32 ohm drivers


----------



## robar

HungryPanda said:


> My latest build, DP100 shells, old 32 ohm drivers


Nice! Can this DP100 shell snap on mx500 or steel mesh front covers? I'm planning to buy one but I'm not sure if it will work with my drivers


----------



## HungryPanda

Yes they can


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> My latest build, DP100 shells, old 32 ohm drivers



Nice job!


----------



## KevDzn

Another earbud out on ncknice to consider for the 11.11.

*Yincrow RW-1000*


----------



## Jsingh4 (Nov 7, 2019)

So can somebody help, I am looking to get an earbud from 11.11 sale, this time a smaller one either with 14.2 driver or in the VE monk lite shell shape.
Is there a one which is good i was hoping to get BGVP DX5, but not sure about the bass, i like a little bass slam but the bass should be accurate or may be VE ZEN LL although I don't know anything about them.
So kindly suggest
Also can anybody verify the driver size in VE MONK Lite


----------



## Alex.Grimm

robar said:


> “N50 32ohm steel mesh" I consider it a cheap but big upgrade from the likes of Vidos, Qians etc.



Where did you buy this? what is the price


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Who has the entire collection of ELI Audio Elibuds Sabia V1-7 to compare? Which version has the best sound?


----------



## ClieOS

Infoseeker said:


> Just the bass has a wierd pickiness to volume.



I was told that could be an synergy issue affecting Turandot's bass if some unmatched balanced adapter is used. Not sure if this mght be your case or not.


----------



## robar (Nov 7, 2019)

Alex.Grimm said:


> Where did you buy this? what is the price


Please note that this is a DIY set so you have to buy and solder a cable to it.  (even with the RY-C10 cable I used, it's cheaper than Qian69) At the moment I haven't adjusted anything, so I just put the driver in the empty shell and that was it, because there is already tuning foam on the speaker. If you're interested in DIY and want to try something easy but rewarding, this is one of the best starter projects I think. (along with buying EMX500 drivers and putting them in random shells)
I bought it from here, I put it in my signature too:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32980742390.html
You can also buy it from here, this is where I got the additional info like N50 PET:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33027995148.html


----------



## Alypius

Got my Smabots in a lot quicker than I expected and thus far I'm pretty impressed with the little guys! No unboxing review; never understood the "unboxing experience"...I don't care if it comes in a brown paper bag as long as the item performs as advertised and I don't keep boxes. So far I've only played with the full-cover foams and realized my eq was still set for my Fidue A83s (only plugged into my DP-X1 right now; will try the desktop setup later). I'll have to play with the foam donuts and the rubber slipcovers (as well as my eq). I'll give them a good listen this weekend and give a better writeup.


----------



## assassin10000

Alypius said:


> Got my Smabots in a lot quicker than I expected and thus far I'm pretty impressed with the little guys! No unboxing review; never understood the "unboxing experience"...I don't care if it comes in a brown paper bag as long as the item performs as advertised and I don't keep boxes. So far I've only played with the full-cover foams and realized my eq was still set for my Fidue A83s (only plugged into my DP-X1 right now; will try the desktop setup later). I'll have to play with the foam donuts and the rubber slipcovers (as well as my eq). I'll give them a good listen this weekend and give a better writeup.



Excellent buds.

I would consider skipping use of the included soft pouch to carry them around. I think some of the problems with the first batch mmcx failures we're due to extra lateral stress on the mmcx connectors if carried in a soft pouch.


----------



## HungryPanda

Mine were the very first generation and never had mine in the pouch and only ever used at my desk and the connector on the left failed


----------



## citral23 (Nov 8, 2019)

Fengru PT32 : 32 ohms graphene MMCX earbuds I bought for 10,92€ on AE (without cable)

They come in a carry pouch which is cool for this price :







Without foams, the first thing that comes to mind is that the'yre bright, but not the detailed kind, more like too much treble kind. Not unbearable but not very pleasing either.

The MMCX connector is of good quality, cable fitted with a nice firm click to it. They are comfortable to wear and look overall solid.






The good suprise regarding build being out of the way, it's a v-shape I don't personally enjoy. Bass is slow, quite undefined and boomy, mids are recessed, treble is ok with foams.

They will be used exactly for what I bought them for, on the **** mmcx cable with mic that I still have, for skype at work (my dac has no mic input) and won't enter my daily rotation.

Enjoying this little combo at the moment :


----------



## ClieOS

Rose Maria. Price estimated: $285~375.


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> Rose Maria. Price estimated: $285~375.


Wow, that earbud is gonna have a visceral bass response guranteed lol


----------



## gc335

ClieOS said:


> Rose Maria. Price estimated: $285~375.


Am I reading that right?! Dual driver earbud?


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 8, 2019)

gc335 said:


> I'm I reading that right?! Dual driver earbud?


Rose has already 3 on the market 

Masya, masya pro and Mojito.

This new one steps up the low end driver size from 16mm to 20mm though hence the much bulkier looking rear driver enclosure.

If they can keep the weight of the rear enclosure down it may be fine without earhook cables but i wouldn't bank on that just yet because the mojito with its 16mm driver (around 16 anyway might be 15.4mm) is already fairly weighty at the back end.

The mojito has a punchy bass response but the collaboration between the two drivers is disappointing as its not neutral and Quiet a pronounced midrange recession, very bright and fatiguing sound signature.

So hopefully this earbud is more tonally balanced and delivers even deeper and more powerful but well controlled bass (mojito bass was a bit too peaked around 100-150hz imo, was a bit boomy with full foams).


----------



## ClieOS

seanc6441 said:


> Wow, that earbud is gonna have a visceral bass response guranteed lol



Just an extra note: the price range difference is due to different treble drivers used, so Maria will actually have two variance. 



gc335 said:


> Am I reading that right?! Dual driver earbud?



Rose already has Mojito, Masya and Masya 2, all dual drivers.


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> Just an extra note: the price range difference is due to different treble drivers used, so Maria will actually have two variance.



That's interesting, they must have been testing multiple drivers and had two with good results. I wonder if there's a significant difference in frequency response between the two.


----------



## nick n

^ ClieOS it looks like they are revising an old design with that Maria, that one being very close to the Technics RP-HV70 build. ( also the HV75 and HV100 )
(RP-HV70 has a 19mm and an 11mm in it )
HV50 is rather neat as the drivers fire opposite. Smaller to the ear and bigger to the rear.

I should drag the 70 out again and give them another listen though mine are an exact clone I think from the OEM, otherwise identical.
Thanks very much for this  alert/post on the Maria model.


----------



## wuf

I have been using the emx500 for a long time and have one more on my way from aliexpress. But if i want to upgrade and try a new what should i look after. I do like bass and i prefer fun over correct sound.

Pricewise under 30 usd


----------



## j4100

Well, I ordered the EA bud from Penon. Since 11.11 is tomorrow, what are you all getting? I don't know whether to bother, or if there is something I should get. Especially a smaller shell like the Yuin.


----------



## gazzington

I'm wondering what to get tomorrow too. I want a good all rounder for most genres. Shozy bk? I do like lots of extreme metal but also rock, jazz, hip hop and classical


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> Well, I ordered the EA bud from Penon. Since 11.11 is tomorrow, what are you all getting? I don't know whether to bother, or if there is something I should get. Especially a smaller shell like the Yuin.



I think you will be very happy with the EA bud.  It is excellent.


----------



## citral23

I'm getting the to600 at 50€ (like the to200 and love the to400s so hoping for an eargasm as impedance goes further up lol) and the Moondrop Nameless as my first fixed cable earbuds, the reviews hint at a possible very good budget for my taste (neutral, no problem if little bass)

Otherwise I'm like "meh". The datura pro seems to have good press here, but without any detailed review, and reviewers that I trust have been extremely harsh and negative on the datura-x so I have cold feet tbh.


----------



## Mhog55

Is Penon Audio having some sort of sale I'm not seeing?


----------



## jibberish

I've been using the TO400 a lot this week, recently upgraded my DAC + amp, and the TO400 has really come alive with the new rig. I've considered picking up a TO180 to get that similar sound but with a bit more bass. But yeah, the TO400 is really superb for mid/treble clarity, imaging, and stage. Also their shell shape is a really stable and comfortable fit for me, much more comfortable than EBX and ME80 by comparison.


----------



## mbwilson111

Mhog55 said:


> Is Penon Audio having some sort of sale I'm not seeing?



If you are a member of the EA group on FB you can get a code to buy the Earbuds Anonymous earbud on Penon.  $25 instead of $50.  Nothing to do with 11:11 which Penon never seems to do anyway.  Several of us have already bought and received the EA bud.


----------



## Mhog55

mbwilson111 said:


> If you are a member of the EA group on FB you can get a code to buy the Earbuds Anonymous earbud on Penon.  $25 instead of $50.  Nothing to do with 11:11 which Penon never seems to do anyway.  Several of us have already bought and received the EA bud.


Copy that. I read a post - Someone had mentioned getting one of the TKs at a discount... I believe.


----------



## citral23

jibberish said:


> I've been using the TO400 a lot this week, recently upgraded my DAC + amp, and the TO400 has really come alive with the new rig. I've considered picking up a TO180 to get that similar sound but with a bit more bass. But yeah, the TO400 is really superb for mid/treble clarity, imaging, and stage. Also their shell shape is a really stable and comfortable fit for me, much more comfortable than EBX and ME80 by comparison.



Totally agree, the TO400s is superb, it has a much more relaxed sound and fit than the EBX, but is not lacking in clarity and detail at all, a very good set with proper amping


----------



## assassin10000

Curiosity is getting to me. Thinking about scooping up a TI7 to compare to my ACG. Either that or the M1 pro. Not much else I'm interested in this 11.11


----------



## cqtek

Hello, everybody.

I just published my first review of an earbud TOTL, a real flagship, high price. It's normal that my assessment of them is very enthusiastic, but, really, there is a big qualitative leap, compared to all the earbuds I own. It is probable that there are better earbuds, Mr. @ClieOS surely corroborates this assertion. But, even so, its enormous quality is unquestionable. I hope you like it, although you must understand, that is still my humble opinion, the opinion of an enthusiast who has started from below in this world of earbuds.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ourart-qj21.24038/reviews#review-22883


----------



## cqtek (Nov 10, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> Curiosity is getting to me. Thinking about scooping up a TI7 to compare to my ACG. Either that or the M1 pro. Not much else I'm interested in this 11.11



I have all of them. What doubts do you have?

ACG is the sharp brother of the Ti7, while the M1 are more similar to the ST-10, somewhat more unbalanced in mids. But I still haven't deeply compared ST-10 vs M1. Next week I will write the review of the M1.

About the thickness of the capsules of the M1, someone asked me to measure them, about 5mm, somewhat thicker than the ST-10, like 0.5mm. But the ST-10 has a more rounded edge, while the M1, the edge is flatter. But the asymmetry of the M1 makes them very comfortable.
Overall diameter M1: 16.2mm, ST-10: 16.8mm


----------



## assassin10000 (Nov 10, 2019)

cqtek said:


> I have all of them. What doubts do you have?
> 
> ACG is the sharp brother of the Ti7, while the M1 are more similar to the ST-10, somewhat more unbalanced in mids. But I still haven't deeply compared ST-10 vs M1. Next week I will write the review of the M1.
> 
> ...



No doubts. Just kinda curious to hear them for myself. 

I saw the graphs comparing the acg/ti7 which showed the ti7 missing the treble peaks of the acg, which sparked my interest.

Good to know the size of the m1 pro. So overall thicker, but smaller diameter (just about pk size) and slightly less radiused (bigger curved edge or 'flatter/wider'). Unbalanced in the mids? Do you mean a bit recessed compared to bass/treble?


----------



## cqtek

Imbalance occurs within the mids themselves. It is something similar to what happens between Ti7 and ACG, suddenly, the M1 means become more emphasized, but only punctually. This affects the difference between male and female voices. Although perhaps it is a lack of burning for the midrange to be balanced.


----------



## Mhog55

Looking to purchase a balanced cable for my mmcx connects. Anyone have any thoughts on pure copper vs silver p copper? I have both for various headphones, and while it could just be me, I think I'm hearing a little more brightness with silver plated.
I'm thinking with buds, I don't really want any additional brightness or top end extension, as that's how the majority of buds come tuned. 
Also looking for any thoughts on the 3 brands I'm looking at. ****, Nicehck, and Hifihear. So many of these balanced cables readily available without having to turn to DIY.


----------



## mbwilson111

cqtek said:


> Imbalance occurs within the mids themselves. It is something similar to what happens between Ti7 and ACG, suddenly, the M1 means become more emphasized, but only punctually. This affects the difference between male and female voices. Although perhaps it is a lack of burning for the midrange to be balanced.



I am having a problem understanding what you are describing.  I have not noticed anything strange with the mids on my M1.



Mhog55 said:


> Also looking for any thoughts on the 3 brands I'm looking at. ****, Nicehck, and Hifihear. So many of these balanced cables readily available without having to turn to DIY.



They are very likely made by the same factories for them.  Just get what you like the look of.   I will mention that I prefer copper personally and for buds I don't want the cable to be too heavy... especially if it is going to hang straight down.  I have gotten several 4 core and 6 core copper mmcx cables for just a few dollars each.


----------



## Mhog55

mbwilson111 said:


> I am having a problem understanding what you are describing.  I have not noticed anything strange with the mids on my M1.
> 
> 
> 
> They are very likely made by the same factories for them.  Just get what you like the look of.   I will mention that I prefer copper personally and for buds I don't want the cable to be too heavy... especially if it is going to hang straight down.  I have gotten several 4 core and 6 core copper mmcx cables for just a few dollars each.


Thanks. Have you noticed a difference between pure copper and silver plated in any way?


----------



## mbwilson111

Mhog55 said:


> Thanks. Have you noticed a difference between pure copper and silver plated in any way?



I don't attempt to compare in that way.  For one thing, I consider mmcx connectors to be a bit fragile so once I choose a cable I rarely take it off to try another.   I think the reason I say I prefer copper is because other people say silver is brighter and I have never ever wished something was brighter.... even if maybe it needs to be   I really choose my cables for aesthetics  and ergonomics so of course sometimes the cable I want is silver plated... or sometimes different wires are twisted tog ether like this gorgeous thing

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000130561057.html

I have this on an over ear IEM and paid $18 introductory price for it a while back.   I personally would not use it on a bud but some might.

because of certain headfi restrictions involving certain brands I can only tell you to search the following to find what I have on some of my mmcx buds... 

6 Core Pink Copper Cable 2.5/3.5/4.4mm Balanced   

I think my 4 core black ones are silver plated.


----------



## wskl

Mhog55 said:


> Thanks. Have you noticed a difference between pure copper and silver plated in any way?



From my experience, copper tends to add some warmth, whereas SPC will improve on clarity, detail and treble.  In terms of synergy, if your earbud is neutral/bright you should pair it with a copper cable, and SPC pairs well with a warm/dark signature.


----------



## ClieOS

Just pre-ordered the Rose Maria, the 11.11 discount is too great to pass. Now just hope it won't take a month to arrive.


----------



## gazzington

ClieOS said:


> Just pre-ordered the Rose Maria, the 11.11 discount is too great to pass. Now just hope it won't take a month to arrive.


Where did you pre order it from?


----------



## ClieOS

gazzington said:


> Where did you pre order it from?



Directly from Rose's Taobao store.


----------



## pr0b3r

Another BGVP product came around and again, I would like to share my thoughts about its sound and overall build.

BGVP DX5

PROS:
- Excellent build quality
- Warm and smooth midrange
- No hint of sibilance
- Above average soundstage quality
- Non-fatiguing sound
- MMCX

CONS:
- Lacks in bass quantity, not for bassheads
- Easily slips out of my ear conchae due to the small driver diameter
- No L/R indicator on the earbuds themselves

Source used: AUNE M1s

Build
Shells are made of metal with good design in mind. It's not your generic kind of shell design. I think this can take a beating and would still work. The 8-core stock cable included is also well made from the MMCX connectors down to the L-plug, which are also both made of metal by the way.

Fit
This pair didn't sit well in my ears due to the small diameter of the drivers and probably the shape of the shells. There are rubber fins included in the package aside from the 6 pairs of extra foams (including donut ones), but they often don't do justice to an earbuds' sound, IMO. I didn't bother using them this time. I prefer using earbuds worn down all the time. For the foams, I used the included full ones.

Sound
Bass - I would consider this pair as bass light. Though the low end isn't totally anemic, they just lack in quantity than what I would have preferred. Subbass is very subtle but is still felt. Midbass has a bit more emphasis here having good punch when needed. I enjoyed using them for genres such as Alternative Rock, Jazz, and vocal centric tracks.
Mids - This area is where I liked them the most. Lower mids has good warmth and is smooth overall. No sibilance at all. Guitars, saxophones, and trumpets are easily heard loud and clear. Though I feel like clarity would benefit more by using donut foams instead of full ones.
Treble - Upper mids to treble is smooth and quite laid back. It is not entirely veiled throughout and sparkle is still audible enough with decent texture, though I feel like there's an early roll off here.
Soundstage - Overall sound feels centered except for the slight emphasis on the upper bass and lower mids. Stage width is actually good, which contributes to the better texture of its bass and treble. Even though they're ever so slightly more pushed back than the mids, good layering and 3D imaging saved their asses so they're not totally left behind in quality.

Conclusion
If you're not a basshead and is in for long listening sessions with tracks that are focused on vocals, the DX5 is a good option for you. Earbuds with this kind of build quality at this price range is not so common. You'll often find the likes of this at above $100. If not for the fit issue (which differs among all of us), this pair would have been a great addition to my earbuds collection. I'm sure some other people will have better experience than I had.

SPECS
Model: BGVP DX5
Drive unit: 14.2mm DLC Dynamic
Impedance: 30ohm
Sensitivity: ≥111dB SPL/mW
Frequency response: 10Hz-45kHz
Distortion rate: 0.5% @ 1kHz
Channel balanced: ≤1dB
Rated power: 8mW


----------



## Mhog55

pr0b3r said:


> Another BGVP product came around and again, I would like to share my thoughts about its sound and overall build.
> 
> BGVP DX5
> 
> ...


Have you by chance used the **** Bk2? These are close to perfect fit for me, but I'm looking to upgrade sound quality. The DX5 is also a 14.2 shell, so I kinda figured these might be the one. I was going to order them on the 15th, but now I'm not so sure. The lack of bass you reference concerns me. No L/R markings on the buds? How do you know which is which, or does it matter?


----------



## cqtek (Nov 11, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I am having a problem understanding what you are describing.  I have not noticed anything strange with the mids on my M1.
> 
> 
> 
> They are very likely made by the same factories for them.  Just get what you like the look of.   I will mention that I prefer copper personally and for buds I don't want the cable to be too heavy... especially if it is going to hang straight down.  I have gotten several 4 core and 6 core copper mmcx cables for just a few dollars each.





It's a hard feeling to explain. So I've proceeded to measure them and I've clearly seen what I meant, that emphasis on 3kHz. I don't notice it in all the recordings, but there are songs where I do feel a sense of distance/closeness in the midrange. Now I know why. It may become softer during the burning process. It's not important though.
By the way @mbwilson111, do you have both Smabat, which do you prefer? I haven't compared them yet.


----------



## mbwilson111

Mhog55 said:


> No L/R markings on the buds? How do you know which is which, or does it matter?



If a bud is symmetrical and the cable is detachable, then you don't need markings on the shell.  The markings on the cables will do.


----------



## Nametag

Does anyone have experience with the Toneking TY2 Pro? Debating between grabbing the TO400s or TY2 Pro, but haven't found many reviews of the TY2 Pro.


----------



## DBaldock9

louiesolomon said:


> Does anyone have experience with the Toneking TY2 Pro? Debating between grabbing the TO400s or TY2 Pro, but haven't found many reviews of the TY2 Pro.



I mentioned my experience with the original TY2 in this post - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3039#post-15274269


----------



## Mhog55

mbwilson111 said:


> If a bud is symmetrical and the cable is detachable, then you don't need markings on the shell.  The markings on the cables will do.


I see, so each bud (l/r) has its own shape. My bk2 - both buds are identical.


----------



## mbwilson111

Mhog55 said:


> I see, so each bud (l/r) has its own shape. My bk2 - both buds are identical.



No.. if there are no l/r markings on the shells, they should be the same...symmetrical like I said. It does not matter which one you use for which side.

Obviously the cable connectors do matter.


----------



## Mhog55

mbwilson111 said:


> No.. if there are no l/r markings on the shells, they should be the same...symmetrical like I said. It does not matter which one you use for which side.
> 
> Obviously the cable connectors do matter.


Copy that


----------



## chinmie (Nov 11, 2019)

Mhog55 said:


> Have you by chance used the **** Bk2? These are close to perfect fit for me, but I'm looking to upgrade sound quality. The DX5 is also a 14.2 shell, so I kinda figured these might be the one. I was going to order them on the 15th, but now I'm not so sure. The lack of bass you reference concerns me. No L/R markings on the buds? How do you know which is which, or does it matter?



you can use this
https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_stereo.php

and then just mark the the buds yourself which is left and right.

Edit : scratch that, i misread your post, accidentally thinking that you meant the Shozy BK


----------



## ClieOS

pr0b3r said:


> CONS:
> ...
> - No L/R indicator on the earbuds themselves
> ...



They are identical, so it doesn't make much sense to label them since it is the cable that determine which side it is, not the earpieces. On that note, probably a better idea to make the cable L/R marking more obvious by putting a notch and bight color on them.


----------



## theresanarc

Ordered my most expensive buds yet, Toneking ROS1s, paying the higher price for the smaller shell.


----------



## oneula

got my VE upgrade package today with the new BIE mmcx with copper cable and the new Sun design with thick copper cable.
So glad I held off the more expensive buds today like the Turendot as I don't see how much better they could be versus this new VE design.
Very happy
No need for further frivolous pursuits 
saving up for a TOTL source to power these beasts.
These were pricey even as an upgrade but worth every penny


----------



## theoutsider (Nov 11, 2019)

*REECHO RC ONE*
looks like 90s AIWA... no one seems to talk about this


----------



## Mhog55

theoutsider said:


> *REECHO RC ONE*
> looks like 90s AIWA... no one seems to talk about this


Are those detachable cables?


----------



## artpiggo

Rose Maria. Anyone knows when they will sell?


----------



## KevDzn

There's a $10-ish Lucky Bag Kbear flagship earbud:knight out.
They claimed that ClieOS commented that its excellent and competitive with earbuds in the $45 range.

Hmmmmmm.......


----------



## theoutsider

Mhog55 said:


> Are those detachable cables?


nope, those are not detachable.


----------



## Mhog55

I wish someone could help me decide between the DX5 and M1 Pro. Maybe a brief comparison? I like the tonal balance of my bk2, just want a little sweeter mid section, a bit more extension on both ends, and a little wider Soundstage with improved separation. I don't want less bass or really bright treble.


----------



## ClieOS (Nov 12, 2019)

Spoiler



[Notice] It comes to my attention that KB on Aliexpress is selling a lucky bag deal that also mentioned my name  - please take note that I have no involvement with KB whatsoever and certainly has no idea what earbud they are selling.



See my next post for detail


----------



## KevDzn

Mhog55 said:


> Are those detachable cables?



Yes, it's detachable. QDC connection


----------



## KevDzn

ClieOS said:


> [Notice] It comes to my attention that KB on Aliexpress is selling a lucky bag deal that also mentioned my name - please take note that I have no involvement with KB whatsoever and certainly has no idea what earbud they are selling.



Thats what I thought. If not, you would have hinted it earlier.


----------



## ClieOS

KevDzn said:


> Thats what I thought. If not, you would have hinted it earlier.



Contacted KB - seem to be some misunderstanding between us. I actually did listen to the prototype before, but it was sent to me via a different channel and so it didn't appear to me that it is actually the same earbud we are referring here. It is my mistake and I apologize for the mix-up.


----------



## KevDzn

Thanks for clearing it up. So how do you find it? Read it's also made of metal.


----------



## pr0b3r (Nov 12, 2019)

artpiggo said:


> Rose Maria. Anyone knows when they will sell?



@artpiggo that new buds from Rose is already available at Penon for pre-order. Try dropping a message at their FB page or thru their website.


----------



## pr0b3r

Mhog55 said:


> Have you by chance used the **** Bk2? These are close to perfect fit for me, but I'm looking to upgrade sound quality. The DX5 is also a 14.2 shell, so I kinda figured these might be the one. I was going to order them on the 15th, but now I'm not so sure. The lack of bass you reference concerns me. No L/R markings on the buds? How do you know which is which, or does it matter?



@Mhog55 I haven't tried any **** products so far. For reference, I use earbuds with Yuin PK or DoCoMo shells. They're also small in diameter but have the best fit for me. I guess anything smaller won't sit well in my ears. For the lack in bass, that's probably my preference only. For instance, the original Yuin PK1 150 ohms also felt bass light for me initially, though they grow on me the longer I listen. The BGVP is fine and would probably have better bass quantity if the fit was right for me.


----------



## pr0b3r

Made better use of my Apple Earpods. Didn't expect them to sound better, like a totally different earbuds. Full sound and punchy with better sparkle up top.


----------



## pr0b3r

@artpiggo I just checked their site. The new Rose Maria is already available for pre-order with a lower price than the actual SRP.

.


----------



## golov17

pr0b3r said:


> @artpiggo I just checked their site. The new Rose Maria is already available for pre-order with a lower price than the actual SRP.
> 
> .


Link?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

golov17 said:


> Link?





Spoiler



https://penonaudio.com/rose-maria.html?sort=p.price&order=DESC


----------



## pr0b3r

golov17 said:


> Link?



@golov17 you can click the photo or here.


----------



## ClieOS

KevDzn said:


> Thanks for clearing it up. So how do you find it? Read it's also made of metal.



Another really good earbud for the price, fairly balanced tonally, if not a little on the warmish / fullish side. Yes, the housing is pretty much all metal and it is not one of those generic housing.


----------



## KevDzn

Thanks for the feedback. One Lucky Bag Kbear flagship earbud:knight on the way.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

KevDzn said:


> Thanks for the feedback. One Lucky Bag Kbear flagship earbud:knight on the way.



maybe it's KB Ear Knight in the photo



Spoiler


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Does anyone know anything about REECHO RC ONE earbuds?



Spoiler



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_3,searchweb201603_52


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Nov 12, 2019)

phixion said:


> Maybe one day we will get a nice earbud with an EarPod type shell, until then I guess I will stick to my EarPods when I don't need isolation.



**** KP220


Spoiler



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_2,searchweb201603_52
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_2,searchweb201603_52
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_2,searchweb201603_52


----------



## Alex.Grimm

del


----------



## robar

Alex.Grimm said:


> maybe it's KB Ear Knight in the photo


This looks quite nice. I really like these kinds of shapes for earbuds, very comfortable. If I'd be sure this is the lucky, I'd probably buy one


----------



## kvad

ClieOS said:


> Just pre-ordered the Rose Maria, the 11.11 discount is too great to pass. Now just hope it won't take a month to arrive.



Have you heard anything about the tuning of the Maria? Absolutely loved the Mojito (despite it at times being a bit peaky), but didn't fully gel with the Masya.


----------



## ClieOS

kvad said:


> Have you heard anything about the tuning of the Maria? Absolutely loved the Mojito (despite it at times being a bit peaky), but didn't fully gel with the Masya.



No idea, I am taking a blind shot myself as I don't think Rose even showcased the prototype to anyone. I only know that it was in development for almost 3 years now. Of course I do own enough Rose earbuds to have confidence in their work.


----------



## mbwilson111

theresanarc said:


> Ordered my most expensive buds yet, Toneking ROS1s, paying the higher price for the smaller shell.



The ROS1 is great if you need a smaller shell.  Very small and comfortable.



theoutsider said:


> *REECHO RC ONE*
> looks like 90s AIWA... no one seems to talk about this



I have never seen this before.  What is the price? I cannot find anywhere to buy it (if it does not cost too much)


----------



## robar (Nov 12, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I have never seen this before.  What is the price? I cannot find anywhere to buy it (if it does not cost too much)


I think this is it
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000353468346.html

Can anyone confirm that the KB Ear Knight is indeed the one @Alex.Grimm posted above?

Faaeal Z-sound looks like a nice deal for 2.75usd as well, I might buy one just for the comfortable shape
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33014074629.html

Has anyone tried the Flang GS1 bluetooth adapter by the way?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000236980991.html


----------



## ClieOS

mbwilson111 said:


> I have never seen this before.  What is the price? I cannot find anywhere to buy it (if it does not cost too much)



I post it like a month ago?



robar said:


> Can anyone confirm that the KB Ear Knight is indeed the one @Alex.Grimm posted above?


*cough*cough*


----------



## robar (Nov 12, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> *cough*cough*


 Okay okay I get it. Need to respect the lucky bag business, which I'll never understand. I guess I'll wait for next spring sale when it'll be sold for like 0.5usd more and at least I know what I buy.


----------



## theoutsider (Nov 12, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I have never seen this before.  What is the price? I cannot find anywhere to buy it (if it does not cost too much)



https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesal...2112843&isPremium=y&SearchText=rc+one+earbuds

The Reecho RC One sells for ~23 bucks, you might get a better deal from an "old friend".



ClieOS said:


> I post it like a month ago?



RC One was overshadowed by the other two flagship earbuds.


----------



## mbwilson111

theoutsider said:


> The Reecho RC One sells for ~23 bucks,



Is it worth having if I already have so many earbuds?   I did order the lucky bag...could not resist.


----------



## theoutsider

mbwilson111 said:


> Is it worth having if I already have so many earbuds?   I did order the lucky bag...could not resist.


You can never have too many earbuds


----------



## mbwilson111

theoutsider said:


> You can never have too many earbuds



do you have it?  do you like it?


----------



## flamesofarctica

mbwilson111 said:


> I did order the lucky bag...could not resist.



Same!


----------



## theoutsider

mbwilson111 said:


> do you have it?  do you like it?


don't have it, mite get it... i use wireless earbuds most of the time these days so I am hesitant to get new wired earbuds.


----------



## kvad

ClieOS said:


> No idea, I am taking a blind shot myself as I don't think Rose even showcased the prototype to anyone. I only know that it was in development for almost 3 years now. Of course I do own enough Rose earbuds to have confidence in their work.



I'm sure it will be good. Have faith in their abilities (although a little less in their quality control).
Might have to flip a coin between Turandot and Maria : )
... or just stay happy with the Smabat ST10.
Sent a question to Penon about the Maria, but I guess he might not know either.


----------



## rkw

kvad said:


> Might have to flip a coin between Turandot and Maria


I'm hesitant about the Rose Maria because their Mojito does not fit my ears well. I've gone ahead with Turandot because Yuin style shells are a particularly good fit for me.


----------



## Alluvial

Thanks (?) to this thread, I've been on a earbud buying spree over the past few months.

My top choice so far, the FAAEAL Rosemary.


----------



## groucho69

Alluvial said:


> Thanks (?) to this thread, I've been on a earbud buying spree over the past few months.
> 
> My top choice so far, the FAAEAL Rosemary.



This thread says you are welcome.


----------



## robar (Nov 12, 2019)

Alluvial said:


> Thanks (?) to this thread, I've been on a earbud buying spree over the past few months.
> My top choice so far, the FAAEAL Rosemary.



What source do you use? With my gear it's extremely dark and muffled, I guess it needs a lot more power, though I thought my source should be ok at least. (Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 gen 1) I'm interested in every kind of setup that works well with this bud



mbwilson111 said:


> I did order the lucky bag...could not resist.





flamesofarctica said:


> Same!


Nice, when the time comes, let us know how you like the knights


----------



## ClieOS

robar said:


> ...though I thought my source should be ok at least. (Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 gen 1)



Most audio interface is poor source compared to dedicate headphone DAC/amp.


----------



## Chris674

robar said:


> What source do you use? With my gear it's extremely dark and muffled, I guess it needs a lot more power, though I thought my source should be ok at least. (Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 gen 1) I'm interested in every kind of setup that works well with this bud



I have a love/hate relationship with this earbud. I can never relax and listen to this thing. If there is not enough power it sounds exactly like you described. Awful. Usually, I plug this into my Schiit Magni 3. It's overkill but there is nothing else that I feel can properly drive it.  In fact, I just plugged it into my V30 and, even though it can get loud enough, the bass dominates the sound and it's flabby and unimpressive. From the Magni the bass gets actual punch, sounds a lot less congested and the treble starts to come through. I also find that turning it up higher than I'm normally comfortable listening is where it sounds best. I spend most of my listening time trying to dial it in to the best volume. It's frustrating...but it sounds really decent. Honestly, I feel like the Earbuds Anonymous bud gives me exactly what this can give me but without all the hassle. With that said, I've been listening to it since you asked the question.


----------



## XmarX

Tis that time of the year when one buys a budget (<35 USD) earbud from Aliexpress (11.11 sale). 
So, for a neutral to a slightly bassy signature, which could be the best bet?

Any suggestions?


----------



## citral23

What do you guys use as portable amps for hard to drive, potentially high Z earbuds?

It's not that I really want to travel with an amp, more that the power is not clean at all in my house with a lot of noise, so I prefer to run DAPS/amps on battery.


----------



## robar (Nov 13, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> Most audio interface is poor source compared to dedicate headphone DAC/amp.


The Scarlett is a pretty decent budget dac but apparently the headphone out is quite weak. It drives my 32-80ohm stuff just fine. I also have SMSL X4 but it has similar driving power. I think the main problem is that both use solely usb without internal battery or external power source, so they are mostly limited by the usb 2.0 connection.


Chris674 said:


> I have a love/hate relationship with this earbud. I can never relax and listen to this thing. If there is not enough power it sounds exactly like you described. Awful. Usually, I plug this into my Schiit Magni 3. It's overkill but there is nothing else that I feel can properly drive it.  In fact, I just plugged it into my V30 and, even though it can get loud enough, the bass dominates the sound and it's flabby and unimpressive. From the Magni the bass gets actual punch, sounds a lot less congested and the treble starts to come through. I also find that turning it up higher than I'm normally comfortable listening is where it sounds best. I spend most of my listening time trying to dial it in to the best volume. It's frustrating...but it sounds really decent. Honestly, I feel like the Earbuds Anonymous bud gives me exactly what this can give me but without all the hassle. With that said, I've been listening to it since you asked the question.


Haha yes I would've totally sold the Rosemary long ago if I had any friends with good amps interested in earbuds. The EA bud looks quite nice, I might try one out in the future but it's a bit too much for me at the moment, I've had quite a bit of bad luck recently with bud purchases so I'd rather buy some sweet parts from that kind of money haha.



citral23 said:


> What do you guys use as portable amps for hard to drive, potentially high Z earbuds?
> It's not that I really want to travel with an amp, more that the power is not clean at all in my house with a lot of noise, so I prefer to run DAPS/amps on battery.


I'm interested too. A simple, trusty solution for 100-200ohm stuff with regular 3.5mm connections. I don't want to buy something half done with dumbly high output impedance, then fiddle with opamps for weeks, or something that has only balanced output. Based on specs the Radstone ES100 looks like a very nice swiss army knife solution (dac+amp+BT receiver), but I havent tried it


----------



## citral23 (Nov 13, 2019)

For 32-200 ohms I use a topping NX1s, which I can vouch for (1.5 ohms output Z iirc, clean sound)

but it has very little power, looking for something to drive my 400-600 ohms properly. NX3 looks rather powerful, but audio science review is not impressed.

The E1DA dacs are powerful, but it's more something that I'll attach to my work laptop, than a bedroom device.


----------



## ClieOS

robar said:


> The Scarlett is a pretty decent budget dac but apparently the headphone out is quite weak. It drives my 32-80ohm stuff just fine. I also have SMSL X4 but it has similar driving power. I think the main problem is that both use solely usb without internal battery or external power source, so they are mostly limited by the usb 2.0 connection.



USB power alone is actually fine if a decent power step-up circuit is included. The problem with Scarlett 2i2's headphone-out goes a bit further than just lacking a good power supply. The opamp that is used for the headphone-out is not actually suitable for driving headphone. To make it work, Focusrite has to put in resistors and capacitors in the signal path to make it works, but those also serve to degrade SQ. To put it simple, the headphone-out is really more in line of 'making sound; rather than 'making good sound'.


----------



## j4100

I use the VE RA2.0bl with it's warp core battery pack, but this is more transportable than portable. Certainly powers the ZOE and other such power hungry buds.

In other news, apart from the EA bud I ordered from Penon the other day, I ordered the AK lucky bag and a couple of the NiceHCK B40s, since I missed out on them when they came out. Perfect sleeping buds, as my Pandas cable is now extremely annoying with it's memory effect.

First buds I have bought in well over a year!


----------



## groucho69

j4100 said:


> I use the VE RA2.0bl with it's warp core battery pack, but this is more transportable than portable. Certainly powers the ZOE and other such power hungry buds.
> 
> In other news, apart from the EA bud I ordered from Penon the other day, I ordered the AK lucky bag and a couple of the NiceHCK B40s, since I missed out on them when they came out. Perfect sleeping buds, as my Pandas cable is now extremely annoying with it's memory effect.
> 
> First buds I have bought in well over a year!



Over a year? That just makes you odd. So you fit right in here.


----------



## j4100

groucho69 said:


> Over a year? That just makes you odd. So you fit right in here.



Very true 

I bought way too many in a short period and managed to stop myself buying any more. Looks like I fell off the wagon


----------



## groucho69

j4100 said:


> Very true
> 
> I bought way too many in a short period and managed to stop myself buying any more. Looks like I fell off the wagon



A short drop


----------



## Chris674

j4100 said:


> Very true
> 
> I bought way too many in a short period and managed to stop myself buying any more. Looks like I fell off the wagon


I just told my wife that I had hit my own personal endgame...and bought the lucky bag the next day.


----------



## chinmie

Chris674 said:


> I just told my wife that I had hit my own personal endgame...and bought the lucky bag the next day.



the nice thing about game is that it's replayable


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> Very true
> 
> I bought way too many in a short period and managed to stop myself buying any more. Looks like I fell off the wagon



Before you get back on that wagon,  stop at your nearest ASDA and. pick up a MIXX Tribute earbud for £4.  Add some spare foams and prepare to be surprised.  If you don't get a fit,  give them to someone else.


----------



## jant71

Only spent $25 so not so bad but not really getting along with the **** KP120 I got two days ago. Maybe they will grow on me but they need some serious tweaking. Fit seems good as far as staying in but they don't really sit in my ears well enough and lose too much bass. Disappointed as I checked and the black filters they came installed with are the bassy filter option. Tried over ears and no real difference. What I would like from them would be the buds having a less even centered "shoulder". If you consider the driver the "body", the "arm" the stem down to the MMCX socket, the "shoulder" would be the back of the housing to the end where the filter screws in. Wish is was off center and more towards a two o'clock position which would allow the buds to sink down and more forward in my ears more than they do. More like a speaker that you are too far away from. Enough power can fix but I don't have anything, atm, as I am waiting for the Qudelix 5K type thing or one of the small players with some power to not have the issues/ finish installing all the features they promised 

Filters seem cool but on the right bud the filter can unscrew pretty damn quick on it's own. They really need little o-rings to make sure they don't unscrew on there own. Make sure you tighten them good  Would be nice if the black filter was in between a bassier one and a cooler one instead of the flat and two bass rolling filters...





Not sure why they only come with donut foams and no solid foams. Obviously I need solid foams to gain some warmth. Good sounding driver that has good bass reach and good balance. Treble does drop off and not gonna extend like an expensive bud obviously. Good bass extension and enough on the treble for it's price.

Like the cable. Actually using it on my Shuoer tape. Last **** cable I had on the PT25 was too long, unruly, and rolled off bass. this one is holding a few of it's bends/kinks form out of the box but is light, looks good, and sounds pretty nice.

Wish these had a bit better shape to a allow deeper fit and came with some solid foams and maybe a zip case. Could have be a real hit but not so much. I feel them will be more of a YMMV kinda bud with up and down impressions. I'm sure a few will get along with them better than me and some as well as me. Missing it by a little bit certainly seems to be the norm for **** in the below $30 range. Better than the PT25 in some ways but the still missed the mark in a few areas.


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> Before you get back on that wagon,  stop at your nearest ASDA and. pick up a MIXX Tribute earbud for £4.  Add some spare foams and prepare to be surprised.  If you don't get a fit,  give them to someone else.



Oh no! I'm going there tomorrow. Don't do this to me


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Nov 14, 2019)

jant71 said:


> Only spent $25 so not so bad but not really getting along with the **** KP120 I got two days ago.



You bought at a high price, on sales, there were many opportunities to buy for $ 18-19



Spoiler


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Has anyone listened to these BLUE EVER BLUE 328R or 328RM earbuds?



Spoiler



http://blueeverblue.com/product_model_328.html


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> Oh no! I'm going there tomorrow. Don't do this to me



Good thing I let you know just in time!  We were at Asda a couple of days ago and they only had two left in rose gold...so of course I grabbed a spare.  All the black and grey were gone and our Asda never did have purple, white or blue.  My husband happened to be in Maidstone one day though (actually a bunch of days but that's another story) and was able to get those colors.

Don't let their build quality fool you.  Those MIXX Tributes sound bigger than they look.   @Willber was going to give some impressions... where are you Willber?


----------



## citral23

I did a bit more research on the Topping NX3s amp, because its 2X 545mw at 32 ohms looks very powerful compared to competition (for 65€ at least) and the audio science guy review is actually really good reading more closely, it just doesn't perform well on USB current, nor when the battery is almost empty, which isn't a problem for me. So I'll get that for the bedroom with my Z3/DSD pro to feed hungry earbuds, and most likely a tin P1.

At work, it will be a 9038D on the laptop, should power 400-600 ohms earbuds easily.

Good time to start saving towards EOY


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> Good thing I let you know just in time!  We were at Asda a couple of days ago and they only had two left in rose gold...so of course I grabbed a spare.  All the black and grey were gone and our Asda never did have purple, white or blue.  My husband happened to be in Maidstone one day though (actually a bunch of days but that's another story) and was able to get those colors.
> 
> Don't let their build quality fool you.  Those MIXX Tributes sound bigger than they look.   @Willber was going to give some impressions... where are you Willber?



Just how many colours are there?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 14, 2019)

j4100 said:


> Just how many colours are there?



 Grey, black, white, blue, purple and rose gold

When the Mixx Tribute was first mentioned in this thread,  many were attracted to the space grey.  My favorite of course is the purple

Amazon sells it but they want £12 as does the Mixx Audio site.


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> Grey, black, white, blue, purple and rose gold
> 
> When the Mixx Tribute was first mentioned in this thread,  many were attracted to the space grey.  My favorite of course is the purple
> 
> Amazon sells it but they want £12 as does the Mixx Audio site.



I might not have bought any buds for a year and a half, but I read this thread every day 

I'll see what they have and try to show some restraint


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> I might not have bought any buds for a year and a half, but I read this thread every day
> 
> I'll see what they have and try to show some restraint



Well, they all sound the same... so you don't need EVERY color/

...unless you want them...


----------



## jant71

Alex.Grimm said:


> You bought at a high price, on sales, there were many opportunities to buy for $ 18-19



I was one of the first purchasers so the sales didn't start on them, I have to pay tax and I got epacket shipping. Best price at the time. Like paying extra for faster shipping. $19 but with Thankgivivng I would not get it till December. Price always goes down if you wait but totally fine paying a bit more to have them weeks earlier.


----------



## ClieOS

j4100 said:


> I might not have bought any buds for a year and a half, but I read this thread every day
> 
> I'll see what they have and try to show some restraint



I might not have read this thread every day for a year and a half, but I bought every buds I can afford to

I'll don't care what they have as I won't try to show any restraint


----------



## mroneto

jant71 said:


> Only spent $25 so not so bad but not really getting along with the **** KP120 I got two days ago. Maybe they will grow on me but they need some serious tweaking. Fit seems good as far as staying in but they don't really sit in my ears well enough and lose too much bass. Disappointed as I checked and the black filters they came installed with are the bassy filter option. Tried over ears and no real difference. What I would like from them would be the buds having a less even centered "shoulder". If you consider the driver the "body", the "arm" the stem down to the MMCX socket, the "shoulder" would be the back of the housing to the end where the filter screws in. Wish is was off center and more towards a two o'clock position which would allow the buds to sink down and more forward in my ears more than they do. More like a speaker that you are too far away from. Enough power can fix but I don't have anything, atm, as I am waiting for the Qudelix 5K type thing or one of the small players with some power to not have the issues/ finish installing all the features they promised
> 
> Filters seem cool but on the right bud the filter can unscrew pretty damn quick on it's own. They really need little o-rings to make sure they don't unscrew on there own. Make sure you tighten them good  Would be nice if the black filter was in between a bassier one and a cooler one instead of the flat and two bass rolling filters...
> 
> ...



My KP120 just arrived today, I agree with you on certain points; the fit is slightly hit or miss, the filters (other than the stock black one) seem sort of pointless for tuning ability, and the included foams really don't do much for the sound either.

If I had to pick something very close to compare these with, it would be my Koss KSC75s which have a very similar sound signature but with more bass (obviously due to the driver size).

These are my first experience with earbuds after owning many other pairs of IEMs and headphones, and I would say this is a pretty good start to another adventure (sorry wallet).


----------



## flamesofarctica

citral23 said:


> I did a bit more research on the Topping NX3s amp, because its 2X 545mw at 32 ohms looks very powerful compared to competition (for 65€ at least) and the audio science guy review is actually really good reading more closely, it just doesn't perform well on USB current, nor when the battery is almost empty, which isn't a problem for me. So I'll get that for the bedroom with my Z3/DSD pro to feed hungry earbuds, and most likely a tin P1.
> 
> At work, it will be a 9038D on the laptop, should power 400-600 ohms earbuds easily.
> 
> Good time to start saving towards EOY



Got the Topping NX3S for my JVC HA-SZ1000 headphones and Zen 2 earbuds and both sound fantastic with it


----------



## j4100

Oh look. A purple one.


----------



## DAndrew

Today is like Christmas for me  

I bought a Bang & Olufsen Earset , a Final E3000 and a Sony MH755 and they all arrived on the same day!

I would imagine the people in this thread are interested in the Earset. It is extremely good. Even better than the ZoomFred in some areas. WIll do a full review after a few weeks when I am used to them .


----------



## j4100

j4100 said:


> Oh look. A purple one.



In fact, they sound damn decent streaming my bandcamp collection (Psychic Lemons Freak Mammal) via my phone while waiting on a haircut.


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> In fact, they sound damn decent streaming my bandcamp collection (Psychic Lemons Freak Mammal) via my phone while waiting on a haircut.



Did you add foams to them?


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> Did you add foams to them?



Matching foams, huh? Neat!

No, I wasn't home at the time. Got them in Asda then went for a haircut. I'll try them with foams over the weekend as I'm off out again. Good price, for sure. They had all the colours, but went for purple


----------



## mbwilson111

j4100 said:


> Matching foams, huh? Neat!
> 
> No, I wasn't home at the time. Got them in Asda then went for a haircut. I'll try them with foams over the weekend as I'm off out again. Good price, for sure. They had all the colours, but went for purple



I first listened without foams as did my husband.  He then put foams on and said he liked them even more like that so I tried it too.  Besides making the sound fuller they are more comfortable for me but I can see why some might like them without foams.  Many people will not have foams at home.

You probably know that the Trig Rain store on aliexpress sells millions of colors of foams.    They have to be stretched slowly and carefully or they can tear.  I have mine in a little box I found at Wilkinsons... for a pound I think.


----------



## dharmasteve

mbwilson111 said:


> I first listened without foams as did my husband.  He then put foams on and said he liked them even more like that so I tried it too.  Besides making the sound fuller they are more comfortable for me but I can see why some might like them without foams.  Many people will not have foams at home.
> 
> You probably know that the Trig Rain store on aliexpress sells millions of colors of foams.    They have to be stretched slowly and carefully or they can tear.  I have mine in a little box I found at Wilkinsons... for a pound I think.



You've just put a smile on my face. That's a collection.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 15, 2019)

dharmasteve said:


> You've just put a smile on my face. That's a collection.



Those are only the Trig Rain ones... of course there are bags of foams that came with my various buds and a big bag or two of black ones that my husband ordered from Aliexpress.... those cheap bags of 100.  We will never run out of foams.  I am wary of stocking too many though because foam will deteriorate over time even while not being used.

Check this out.  When we bought our vintage Aidex DX-SII-10001 from Indonesia it came with a warning to be careful while opening as the original foams will have become dust.  We needed to rescue the buds from the packaging without getting foam dust into the drivers.  Itt was amazing... lol.

So , you can't stockpile a lifetime supply of foams... or headphone pads.  Silicone iem tips should last forever.

I should add... these foams were actually on the buds and disintegrated as we were carefully brushing them away from the shells.  Not sure how many years they were in the  package.


----------



## mbwilson111

Having different colored foams can help identify right from left.  Many people use the red and blue that are included with many bud.   I like to have options.


----------



## robar (Nov 15, 2019)

If anyone's interested, KBear revealed the knight. Interestingly, some stores at Ali still sell it as lucky bag for 11.9usd. Thinking about getting one now or at black friday…


Spoiler: link



It's indeed the earbud I hoped for. The shape reminds me of Qian69 shell which I love. This could be a killer combo, really nice metal shell, great cable and sound (hopefully), what's not to like. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000348335693.html


----------



## teston

Which one to choose, between moondrop chaconne and liebesleid. I think I might want to hop on moondrop bandwagon.
I want to add earbuds with superb details retrieval but with no harsh or glare to my collection.


----------



## waynes world

j4100 said:


> In fact, they sound damn decent streaming my bandcamp collection (Psychic Lemons Freak Mammal) via my phone while waiting on a haircut.



Who woulda thunk that purple sounds so good!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I commissioned Chuckzziancj Tres Abrantes to build me a crazy red/blue Vido with MMCX and boy did he deliver!   

Both earbuds have the Vido red drivers.  This is one KILLER Earbud Build!


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Who woulda thunk that purple sounds so good!



Don't worry.. they all sound the same


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> Don't worry.. they all sound the same



Whew!!!


----------



## theoutsider

teston said:


> Which one to choose, between moondrop chaconne and liebesleid. I think I might want to hop on moondrop bandwagon.
> I want to add earbuds with superb details retrieval but with no harsh or glare to my collection.


http://blog.livedoor.jp/headphone_metal/archives/52421282.html

This guy compared the two and gave Moondrop Chaconne a recommendation level of 99% hahaha.


----------



## brianforever

BloodyPenguin said:


> I commissioned Chuckzziancj Tres Abrantes to build me a crazy red/blue Vido with MMCX and boy did he deliver!
> 
> Both earbuds have the Vido red drivers.  This is one KILLER Earbud Build!


Hi BloodyPenguin,

The drivers for blue & red Vido are identical its the tuning foam within the shells that are thicker or thinner..thus the differences in sound signatures..


----------



## brianforever (Aug 2, 2020)

@BloodyPenguin The blue tuning foam is twice as thick as compared to the white vido , which is why the white Vido are bassier than the other Vido Blue, Red & Black (Image courtesy of Barnabás Róth )


----------



## Nimweth

Just ordered: Smabat M10 Pro. Transmission line in my ears! Can't wait.


----------



## mbwilson111

Nimweth said:


> Just ordered: Smabat M10 Pro. Transmission line in my ears! Can't wait.



Nice choice.

Is this your first earbud?  I don't see any buds in your list.   You meant the M1, right?  You had me googling for an M10.


----------



## Nimweth

mbwilson111 said:


> Nice choice.
> 
> Is this your first earbud?  I don't see any buds in your list.   You meant the M1, right?  You had me googling for an M10.


Yes, a typo, it's the M1 and yes, it is my first earbud. My Hifi speakers are Cambridge R50 transmission line models and I love TL bass so I am looking forward to hearing the bass on the M1!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

brianforever said:


> Hi BloodyPenguin,
> 
> The drivers for blue & red Vido are identical its the tuning foam within the shells that are thicker or thinner..thus the differences in sound signatures..





brianforever said:


> @BloodyPenguin The blue tuning foam is twice as thick as compared to the white vido , which is why the white Vido are bassier than the other Vido Blue, Red & Black (Image courtesy of Barnabás Róth )



Correct.  The foams were also replaced as well, to make sure the tune was even on both sides.


----------



## brianforever

BloodyPenguin said:


> Correct.  The foams were also replaced as well, to make sure the tune was even on both sides.


@BloodyPenguin Happy to hear that..awesome earbuds btw


----------



## DBaldock9

Nimweth said:


> Yes, a typo, it's the M1 and yes, it is my first earbud. My Hifi speakers are Cambridge R50 transmission line models and I love TL bass so I am looking forward to hearing the bass on the M1!



The Smabat earbuds have a shell that _looks_ Transmission Line shaped, but aren't actually a Transmission Line for Bass frequencies.
I've mentioned some details about why, back on this post - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2764#post-14904287


----------



## Nimweth

DBaldock9 said:


> The Smabat earbuds have a shell that _looks_ Transmission Line shaped, but aren't actually a Transmission Line for Bass frequencies.
> I've mentioned some details about why, back on this post - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2764#post-14904287


Thank you for that, very informative!


----------



## citral23 (Nov 17, 2019)

Received some Trig Rain donuts yesterday, and they are a huge improvement over (Trig Rain too) full foams in terms of seal for me (not sure why), absolutely perfect for the TO200 and TO400s, the bass really comes alive. The EBX also benefits slightly in terms of bass, but becomes too bright, its already borderline too much with full foams for me.

Can anyone tell if those Hiegi supposedly thicker expensive ones are worth it? Quite pricey but well...

The FAAEL foams look also quite good on pictures, tempted to get a few pairs to test


----------



## HungryPanda

Hiegi foams are exellent. If highs are too much use a donut over a regular foam


----------



## citral23

HungryPanda said:


> Hiegi foams are exellent. If highs are too much use a donut over a regular foam



Thanks, I don't understand how donuts would tame highs but I'll give Hiegis a shot


----------



## HungryPanda

I mean the full foam tames the highs the thicker it is or even use double full foams


----------



## mbwilson111

citral23 said:


> Thanks, I don't understand how donuts would tame highs but I'll give Hiegis a shot



I think he meant add a regular foam if highs are too  much for just a donut.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 16, 2019)

oops how were we posting at the same time when you are miles away

You did not warn him how difficult it is to put a donut on top of a regular foam... lol.

I think someone suggested to put the donut on first  to stretch it, then take it off and put on the full foam, then add the donut back on top.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I have Heigi donuts on my EBX and I love them. Mostly though it was just a perfect fit solution for me. the Heigis were the perfect thickness for my ear. Don't know/remember much about the sound differences between foams as the EBX are pretty effing good no matter what.

The regular pack of full foam heigis comes with a pair of donuts if I remember correctly.


----------



## citral23 (Nov 16, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> I have Heigi donuts on my EBX and I love them. Mostly though it was just a perfect fit solution for me. the Heigis were the perfect thickness for my ear. Don't know/remember much about the sound differences between foams as the EBX are pretty effing good no matter what.
> 
> The regular pack of full foam heigis comes with a pair of donuts if I remember correctly.



They sell both full and donut Heigi foams on Penon, got 12 pairs of each, a bit expensive but there's no reason to treat my iems with spinfits and not give some love to my 70-80€ earbuds after all

Edit: got it panda, by "over" you meant "on top", thx


----------



## oneula

Some of my newest presents from Venture Electronics thatI hope to spend some time with using different DAPs and Amps

Everyone says cables don't matter
I don't know about that now, after listening to my upgraded Zen LLs with the newer VE thicker copper cables.
The older Zen LLs didn't sound anywhere near these new ones

The new included ear hooks are required with the heavier cables they could be used on some other bud/iems that are hard to stay put


----------



## pr0b3r

Both very pleasing earbuds, aesthetically and sonically.  I'll share my impressions on both in the coming days.


----------



## smith

Picked up  the mix audio buds from my local ASDA yesterday.....really impressed straight out of the box with no foams. Has a nice balanced sound and decent bass.


----------



## mbwilson111

smith said:


> Picked up  the mix audio buds from my local ASDA yesterday.....really impressed straight out of the box with no foams. Has a nice balanced sound and decent bass.



Happy to hear we aren't steering people wrong.  I do remember enjoying them right out of the box but then Panda said he liked them even more with foams so I put them on and I think the sound is a little fuller.  Plus the foams make them more comfy for me.  I can see where some people might prefer them without though.  .


----------



## LordZero

I have the Rose Masya with the black standard cable and I was thinking in trying things to improve the sound. Will the silver cable that Rose sells, make any difference?


----------



## mbwilson111

LordZero said:


> I have the Rose Masya with the black standard cable and I was thinking in trying things to improve the sound. Will the silver cable that Rose sells, make any difference?



What do you want to improve?  I love the sound as it is.   Are you using foams?  Are you getting a good fit?  I actually bought mine from someone who was unable to get a proper fit.  Our ears are all so different... both for fit and perception of sound.


----------



## dharmasteve (Nov 17, 2019)

dharmasteve said:


> Exactly. Did just that with a sharp stanley knife (we call it that in the UK) and made a few for both my 03's. It's the simplest fix in the universe. Now I get a good depth and seal and I am amazed every time I listen through the Blon 03s.





LordZero said:


> I have the Rose Masya with the black standard cable and I was thinking in trying things to improve the sound. Will the silver cable that Rose sells, make any difference?



I have the Rose Masya Mk 2 (pro) and it came with both cables, the black and silver. I do like the sound a lot but there isn't a discernible difference in cable sound to me. What did make a sound difference were the ISN Audio C16/S16 cables, but that's a more expensive upgrade and it is a straight edge cable. The best upgrade to the Rose Masya is the Blon 03 IMHO. Both have fit problems.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Is it true that VE thin foams have been changed or did I have some weird nightmare?


----------



## LordZero (Nov 17, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> What do you want to improve?  I love the sound as it is.   Are you using foams?  Are you getting a good fit?  I actually bought mine from someone who was unable to get a proper fit.  Our ears are all so different... both for fit and perception of sound.



I am using silicone rubber that came with the Sennheiser mx580 and Hiegi Donuts.
They didn't just sound right to me... I tried hooks, thin and donut foam on top, the bass was ok, but the treble and mids were so strange, like thin or metallic.I always thought I couldn't get a proper fit. I have them for some time now, but didn't use them a lot because the sound was "unnatural", but never give up on them.

Anyway, after the the post, I read something about inverted connectors... I plugged the cable with the L and R facing me, the sound was louder and fuller, the bass was tight, mids and treble more natural. Is this normal? Can someone test if the Rose Masya sound louder in the inverted position or normal?

I bought them second handed, maybe the guy didn't liked the sound too for this reason.



dharmasteve said:


> I have the Rose Masya Mk 2 (pro) and it came with both cables, the black and silver. I do like the sound a lot but there isn't a discernible difference in cable sound to me. What did make a sound difference were the ISN Audio C16/S16 cables, but that's a more expensive upgrade and it is a straight edge cable. The best upgrade to the Rose Masya is the Blon 03 IMHO. Both have fit problems.



Oh ok! Have to look that cable up, but now I like the sound xD
But isn't the Blon 03 a in ear?


----------



## the diode

Absolutely loving my new Zen LL DICE from VE. Much fuller sounding then the original. I cant wait to get the Sun and try those thing out.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 17, 2019)

LordZero said:


> Anyway, after the the post, I read something about inverted connectors... I plugged the cable with the L and R facing me, the sound was louder and fuller, the bass was tight, mids and treble more natural. Is this normal? Can someone test if the Rose Masya sound louder in the inverted position or normal?



I think you now have them in the correct position.  The L and R on the cable faces the same way as the L and R on the bud.  I am not going to turn mine around to see if the sound changes because I don't like to risk loosening the connectors.  For some reason inverse polarity is noticeable on these.   Interesting.  There are two dynamic drivers in each earpiece with this bud so maybe that is the reason.  I had always thought that if you were not sure which way to turn the cable, it would be ok as long as you did the same on each side.  Seems that is not true with the Masya.

I don't have this wooden version but you can see the L and R clearly in this photo.   And, yes the Blon is an IEM... I would not consider it to be an upgrade to the Masya.


----------



## Alluvial

robar said:


> What source do you use? With my gear it's extremely dark and muffled, I guess it needs a lot more power, though I thought my source should be ok at least. (Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 gen 1) I'm interested in every kind of setup that works well with this bud
> 
> 
> 
> Nice, when the time comes, let us know how you like the knights



When I read things like this, I am not sure whether my anatomy (earbuds, while comfortable, sort of float a bit in my ears) or my neurology is at fault. To me they sounds quite fine out of my phone (Pixel 3). At home, I use the Topping NX4 when I get the chance to just sit around. Honestly, I liked the cheaper buds from FAAEAL I tried (er, Snow Lotus, and Iris) but the bass was aenemic. The Rosemary's seemed to reproduce the overall pleasant qualities of the other buds but with much more bass. To be fair, I am not really a fan of overly bright sounding things. In fact, I am not really an audiophile per se, if I can say that without being too noxious - I love music, and with buds, its more about being able to try out lots of different sounds for a very low price.....


----------



## oneula

the diode said:


> Absolutely loving my new Zen LL DICE from VE. Much fuller sounding then the original. I cant wait to get the Sun and try those thing out.



the suns are much fuller sounding greater extension to the bottom and top
kind of like the difference from the original Zens versus the Zen lites/LL
but both sound really good for buds
perfect for my high impedance output chifi daps
The new hooks are a blessing with these thicker cables


----------



## the diode

oneula said:


> the suns are much fuller sounding greater extension to the bottom and top
> kind of like the difference from the original Zens versus the Zen lites/LL
> but both sound really good for buds
> perfect for my high impedance output chifi daps
> The new hooks are a blessing with these thicker cables



Thanks for the info. Cant wait for them to get in. Do you have the Zen/Zen Black to compare them to?


----------



## citral23 (Nov 17, 2019)

Hmm, I'm interested in the FAAEL Rosemary but that cable and y-split is a complete turn-off for me.

But I'll get soon the MH755 (for the tips primarily) and will try to recable them, if successful I might give the Rosemary a shot.


----------



## oneula

the diode said:


> Thanks for the info. Cant wait for them to get in. Do you have the Zen/Zen Black to compare them to?


I don't have the black just the Zen2 in 2.5 balance and the Zen2 Omega
I just got the Sun DICE and BIE mmcx DICE term'd in 4.4 balance even though I don't have any devices with 4.4 at this time but Lee says its the future so I might as well get ready.
Sounds like he may venture into the source area for his clan.

Right now, I've got too many new buds IEM this past week to sit down with them all. Got the new FAAEAL Hibicus and Datura Pro the Zen LL DICE and I really want to spend some time with my new Nature Sound NS3 wooden IEMs, Be interesting to compare the Hibicus to the new Sun or Zen LL later.

Currently listening to as I type an old set of Zero Audio Carbo Tenore's that I just saw listed fairly high on Crinacle's rating list. I'm listening to Emile-Claire Barlow's album "Clear Day" in DSD form HDtracks on my QNGEE X2. Had to dig them out from my IEM/Bud experiments last year. I still think on some other album tracks the bass is too boomy on these buds for my tastes but this album sounds nice lots of clarity though. Be interesting to compare them to the VEs since they aren't listed on his ratings.


----------



## wskl

BadReligionPunk said:


> Is it true that VE thin foams have been changed or did I have some weird nightmare?



I haven't bought any VE foams recently, but the first change I noticed was when the Monk Lite was released (Dec 2017 I think), the foams that came with it still have a porous quality but they are a bit thicker.  The old VE foams were thinner but can tear quite easily, I actually do not mind the newer ones, they seem more durable to me.

With the Ex Pack (Lite), it comes with 3 bags of foams, (1) has the porous foams, (2) has denser non-porous foams, similar to the Trig Rain foams, (3) contain donut foams.


----------



## robar (Nov 17, 2019)

Alluvial said:


> When I read things like this, I am not sure whether my anatomy (earbuds, while comfortable, sort of float a bit in my ears) or my neurology is at fault. To me they sounds quite fine out of my phone (Pixel 3). At home, I use the Topping NX4 when I get the chance to just sit around. Honestly, I liked the cheaper buds from FAAEAL I tried (er, Snow Lotus, and Iris) but the bass was aenemic. The Rosemary's seemed to reproduce the overall pleasant qualities of the other buds but with much more bass. To be fair, I am not really a fan of overly bright sounding things. In fact, I am not really an audiophile per se, if I can say that without being too noxious - I love music, and with buds, its more about being able to try out lots of different sounds for a very low price.....


Well there could be many factors, we can't really tell what the other hears : ) I don't have other Faaeals to compare sadly, neither your phone. I didn't have the chance to try it on powerful source but maybe someone who can drive his Rosemary properly could compare it with a regular source like on an average android phone or something ; ) As far as my particular transparent shell (maybe thats a factor too?) unit goes, it has soft, smooth, dull sound from my sources with good quantity though very boomy one-note bass (most of my buds has a lot more articulated bass, even the cheap ones) I can't verify if it sounds different with proper amping, I can only rely on others' reviews. (I've read some which claimed it has a cool punchy almost aggressive sound - far from what I hear, my experience is more like listening to music behind closed doors) I heard a few others with similar experiences too about underpowered rosemarys. I don't think it's a taste issue because I would really enjoy this signature if it had more energy/clarity and extension, which I think this bud should give in an ideal situation. In my setup it's darker and softer than even my vidos or my blue qian25 and even qian39. The highs are especially muffled. If I had to guess, with proper amping it should sound like an improved version of blue qian25. I'm hopeful because I hear a noticeable improvement with my DACs over my phone, but it's still not enough so I think is should improve further by a lot. I'd certainly expect a lot more from this bud.


----------



## oneula

the diode said:


> Thanks for the info. Cant wait for them to get in. Do you have the Zen/Zen Black to compare them to?



okay I just did a a/b compare with the zen2 vs the sun dice

better separation with the sun seeming smaller but more defined sound stage
less emphasis on the mids/upper mids which makes the zen2s feel brighter and more expansive
but with the suns you get a better feel for all the instruments with nothing exaggerated
bass feels stronger
as much if not better instrument definition and clarity than the shouer tape

I like these as much if not better than the experience I've had with my Tape and P1 even with the amp to drive the P1s
these are a good match for my Zishan DSD AK4097 balanced out at 75% volume

But I think because of the nature of buds and foam tips it's hard to get that exact high hat related timbre you can get with an over ears or IEM
But that's the only thing missing 
Horns sound fine as do strings and drums
listening to "On a Clear Day" with Emlie-Claire Barlow in DSD


----------



## j4100

Some of the Ali shops are piss poor at shipping. I have five (non earbud) items "awaiting despatch" and one not even that far! That's a week since 11.11 now. At least the earbuds on the move and the NiceHCK B40s are on the plane.


----------



## LordZero (Nov 18, 2019)

What are your opinion on them VE Monk Lite? I want to order their EX Pack and since I have to pay for shipping, I was thinking in order some buds too. But I already have the Vido and yincrow x6.


----------



## dharmasteve (Nov 18, 2019)

Ok I guess this is a bud......or is it? It's the Sony MDR ED12 FONTOPIA. I had it years ago in red. Eventually I bought a silver one on Ebay but it was a fake. The original had a good size driver...maybe 16mm, and was like wearing little speakers just by the ears. Bass was for it's day really something. Many struggled with it's fit but to me they were better sounding than my more expensive Buds/IEMs. Very unusual shape and I wonder why that shape hasn't been adopted by anyone? Mine eventually failed in one of the channels and that was sad because I loved the sound. They now sell for silly used prices on Ebay. Any recollections?


----------



## LordZero

dharmasteve said:


> Ok I guess this is a bud......or is it? It's the Sony MDR ED12 FONTOPIA. I had it years ago in red. Eventually I bought a silver one on Ebay but it was a fake. The original had a good size driver...maybe 16mm, and was like wearing little speakers just by the ears. Bass was for it's day really something. Many struggled with it's fit but to me they were better sounding than my more expensive Buds/IEMs. Very unusual shape and I wonder why that shape hasn't been adopted by anyone? Mine eventually failed in one of the channels and that was sad because I loved the sound. They now sell for silly used prices on Ebay. Any recollections?



They seem like a upgrade from the E931LP which came with the Nw-hd5.
I had the E931LP and remember them being really great.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Nov 18, 2019)

Has anyone compared?

Tingo TG-38s


Spoiler



https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/32435966900.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.123f2e0eXYJ7JF



TinGo TC200 (in TinGo TG38S Shells)


Spoiler



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32805136073.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.6df32e0e1GRy58
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32687542028.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.6df32e0e1GRy58
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32976559582.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.6df32e0e1GRy58



TinGo TC300 (in TinGo TG38S Shells)


Spoiler



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32974248666.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.42e92e0ed935ja



TinGo TC400 (in TinGo TG38S Shells)


Spoiler



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000170065183.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.5c6b2e0e0Mo1zD
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000170101894.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.5c6b2e0e0Mo1zD


----------



## groucho69

j4100 said:


> Some of the Ali shops are piss poor at shipping. I have five (non earbud) items "awaiting despatch" and one not even that far! That's a week since 11.11 now. At least the earbuds on the move and the NiceHCK B40s are on the plane.



Unless this is your first 11.11 you shouldn't be surprised. Actually I seem to have better service this year. Although at this time of year things tend to sit in custom for a loooong time.


----------



## robar (Nov 18, 2019)

Alex.Grimm said:


> Has anyone compared?
> 
> Tingo TG-38s
> 
> ...


I think @ounwx compared the the tc200 and tc300 few months ago, he said the tc300 is flatter, more like SL 1.0+ CE. I only had TC200 (CKLewis 5usd version) and I didn't like it personally, the mids are very thin and uneven for me, 1K is very recessed while 2-5K is exaggerated very much. The difference between 1K and 2K is especially large. So it's a very upper mid focused sound with average bass and highs, not my favourite, I prefer flat mids with a bit of boost on the bass and maybe around 8-10khz. I like Qian69 and B40 more, but this is my personal opinion of course.


----------



## j4100

groucho69 said:


> Unless this is your first 11.11 you shouldn't be surprised. Actually I seem to have better service this year. Although at this time of year things tend to sit in custom for a loooong time.



No, not first time, but maybe I was lucky with those I bought from in past years. At least they are now all waiting on despatch, apart from the buds which are heading in the right direction


----------



## fonkepala

LordZero said:


> What are your opinion on them VE Monk Lite? I want to order their EX Pack and since I have to pay for shipping, I was thinking in order some buds too. But I already have the Vido and yincrow x6.



I have the 40 ohm Monk Lite. Superb comfort, but the sound takes some getting use to. Quite detailed, wide soundstage, but very very lean on the low frequencies. I'm not a basshead but even this is too light for my taste. But whatever bass is there is quite well controlled. Not sibilant and no piercing treble. Female vocals and instrumentals sound nice. 

When I first got em, I disliked the sound so much I intended to sell them straight away. But after some burn in, I think they sound a bit better now. When paired with my Fiio Q1 and the bass boost turned on, the lower frequencies are enhanced nicely. Of course, the aforementioned is what it sounds like to me. YMMV.

If I can do it all over again, I'd maybe spring for the 120ohm version. I've read folks say it's better than the 40ohm version but there are also comments saying that if one doesn't like the sound sig of the 40, then the 120 is basically more of the same. So, yeah...


----------



## oneula

LordZero said:


> What are your opinion on them VE Monk Lite? I want to order their EX Pack and since I have to pay for shipping, I was thinking in order some buds too. But I already have the Vido and yincrow x6.



I don't own either of the buds you have but I have had the monks and their variations for a couple of years now.
The Monks have a "fun" sound which is why they standout from normal buds people get off the shell or with their phones.
It can also be a juice hog which tends to drain the battery with its higher ohm appetite. I have had complaints from people I gave them too about their batteries depleting faster while listening through the monks. But all have said the sound experience was great. Not sure the benefits of the Lites other than for sleeping with them and less drain on your source.The lites tend to have a less "fuller" sound if that makes any sense.

I originally got turned on to VE and the Monks after I bought my LG V30 because I needed something to trigger the amp. Since then I found a ton more options that can do the same but now I also have a ton of DAPs to use instead of my phone.


----------



## the diode

oneula said:


> okay I just did a a/b compare with the zen2 vs the sun dice
> 
> better separation with the sun seeming smaller but more defined sound stage
> less emphasis on the mids/upper mids which makes the zen2s feel brighter and more expansive
> ...


Thank you so much for the information. I will try to post my thoughts when I get them in and do a comparison.


----------



## citral23

Received Shiro-Yuki today, it has limited treble extension but sounds very, very natural, and effortless, good buy.

It's a good day as I also got a kbear F1 I'm happy with, 2 good cheap minimalists purchases, I can sleep well 

Still waiting for Nameless and TO600.


----------



## Xizel

It's been a while since I've last been interested in earbuds. Any suggestion for a $100 budget? I'm most interested in emulating the soundstage of open-back headphones.


----------



## silverfishla

Anyone here receive their Datura X Pro yet?  Going to be waiting for awhile for mine.  Wondering how it sounds.


----------



## fonkepala

citral23 said:


> Received Shiro-Yuki today, it has limited treble extension but sounds very, very natural, and effortless, good buy.
> 
> It's a good day as I also got a kbear F1 I'm happy with, 2 good cheap minimalists purchases, I can sleep well
> 
> Still waiting for Nameless and TO600.



How are the low ends on the Shiroyuki? Also, by 'limited treble extension', do you mean that higher frequencies are cut off? Sorry I'm not too familiar with all these terms. For quite awhile now, I've been debating getting the Shiroyuki over the Faeeal Snow Lotus 1 (or 2). Reading your thoughts on it makes me want to go for the former.


----------



## oneula

silverfishla said:


> Anyone here receive their Datura X Pro yet?  Going to be waiting for awhile for mine.  Wondering how it sounds.



Got my Datura Pro with the Hibiscus this weekend
Haven't spent allot of time on them although I did run a quick compare against my new VE Sun DICE which is a $298 USD earbud.
Not a good comparison since the FAAEAL Datura Pro  although their TOTL earbud is like $36 USD

They are okay didn't blow the Sun DICE out of the water but I need more time and maybe burn in
maybe listen to them naked without any foams if they would stay put
I ran them on a ZIKU XD-09 so it wasn't a high end source

It's hard when you are also listening to the Tape. BLON 03, ****, HE100 and Carbo Tenore iems at the same time 

Buds to me are a different type of listening experience compared to over ears and in ears 
But FAAEAL and WillSound are better than most of the buds out there

So right now as I'm typing, I'm running a quick a/b on my ACMEE MF01 dap and listening to one of my favorite tracks "Miles of Sea" by Scott Jarrett. It seems the Willsound PK32 black cable sounds clearer and with more punch than the FAAEAL Datura Pro although I enjoy the sound of the FAAEAL. Its just the Willsound to me sounds better. I'm using a AliEx cable instead of the one that came with the Datura so I'll change that out and try more comparisons.


----------



## felix3650

Just got a pair of TY Hi-Z HP32 (v2 balanced 2.5mm) last week. I've been running them through the iBasso DC01. There is a peak somewhere in the 3-5khz region cause I hear them "shout" sometimes. Do you guys think it will go away the more the earbud gets worked or is this how it's supposed to sound? My only other reference is the Monk (original).


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Xizel said:


> It's been a while since I've last been interested in earbuds. Any suggestion for a $100 budget? I'm most interested in emulating the soundstage of open-back headphones.



Penon BS1 or Smabat ST-10?


----------



## LordZero

fonkepala said:


> How are the low ends on the Shiroyuki? Also, by 'limited treble extension', do you mean that higher frequencies are cut off? Sorry I'm not too familiar with all these terms. For quite awhile now, I've been debating getting the Shiroyuki over the Faeeal Snow Lotus 1 (or 2). Reading your thoughts on it makes me want to go for the former.



You could find anyone commenting on the difference of the snow lotus 1+ and 2?


----------



## citral23

fonkepala said:


> How are the low ends on the Shiroyuki? Also, by 'limited treble extension', do you mean that higher frequencies are cut off? Sorry I'm not too familiar with all these terms. For quite awhile now, I've been debating getting the Shiroyuki over the Faeeal Snow Lotus 1 (or 2). Reading your thoughts on it makes me want to go for the former.



Yes limited treble extension means early treble roll-off, however I'm not quite sure for that one, could just be the effect that it sounds "polite" in the high range, I need more time with it to tell you exactly how it is.

The bass is, however, clearly very limited in extension, I can't hear any sub. It's even worse than my TO200 that sounds already very dry in the low-end. But I sometimes like that type of sound, depends on mood. The mid-bass is fast, well defined, and not boomy, I prefer it that way even if it lacks sub. Quantity sounded adequate to me.

I'd be interested by a comparison with the snow lotus too.


----------



## robar (Nov 19, 2019)

felix3650 said:


> Just got a pair of TY Hi-Z HP32 (v2 balanced 2.5mm) last week. I've been running them through the iBasso DC01. There is a peak somewhere in the 3-5khz region cause I hear them "shout" sometimes. Do you guys think it will go away the more the earbud gets worked or is this how it's supposed to sound? My only other reference is the Monk (original).


I don't have your particular earbud, bud it's quite typical to have some kind of peak around 3-5khz, maybe your bud has extra strong peak there (I'm generally sensitive to that range, but there are very peaky buds indeed, like the RY4C). Trying out different foams is the most direct solution, in my experience more dense foams tend to tame the 4-5khz area quite noticeably, like trig rains or those that come with B40. Other remedy would be EQ, in fact a simple general profile would benefit almost all budget earbuds in my opinion, namely increase 30-80hz and decrease 3-5khz by 1-2dB. I tend to pull down the 4-5khz area by 2dB whenever I can.  I don't think any kind of burn in will solve this, there could be few exceptions but in my experience the sound doesn't change at all (maybe in the first few hours but that's about it) I measured a few buds at day 1 and they had the exact same freq response after weeks and months. However physical wear and tear may change the sound but that's another story


----------



## LordZero

fonkepala said:


> I have the 40 ohm Monk Lite. Superb comfort, but the sound takes some getting use to. Quite detailed, wide soundstage, but very very lean on the low frequencies. I'm not a basshead but even this is too light for my taste. But whatever bass is there is quite well controlled. Not sibilant and no piercing treble. Female vocals and instrumentals sound nice.
> 
> When I first got em, I disliked the sound so much I intended to sell them straight away. But after some burn in, I think they sound a bit better now. When paired with my Fiio Q1 and the bass boost turned on, the lower frequencies are enhanced nicely. Of course, the aforementioned is what it sounds like to me. YMMV.
> 
> If I can do it all over again, I'd maybe spring for the 120ohm version. I've read folks say it's better than the 40ohm version but there are also comments saying that if one doesn't like the sound sig of the 40, then the 120 is basically more of the same. So, yeah...





oneula said:


> I don't own either of the buds you have but I have had the monks and their variations for a couple of years now.
> The Monks have a "fun" sound which is why they standout from normal buds people get off the shell or with their phones.
> It can also be a juice hog which tends to drain the battery with its higher ohm appetite. I have had complaints from people I gave them too about their batteries depleting faster while listening through the monks. But all have said the sound experience was great. Not sure the benefits of the Lites other than for sleeping with them and less drain on your source.The lites tend to have a less "fuller" sound if that makes any sense.
> 
> I originally got turned on to VE and the Monks after I bought my LG V30 because I needed something to trigger the amp. Since then I found a ton more options that can do the same but now I also have a ton of DAPs to use instead of my phone.



Thanks, both of you 

The shell seems conforabale, that is why I was looking into then. Wanted something to use while in bed, but wanted a more warm sound, maybe i will go for the Qian39, same shell.


----------



## fonkepala

citral23 said:


> Yes limited treble extension means early treble roll-off, however I'm not quite sure for that one, could just be the effect that it sounds "polite" in the high range, I need more time with it to tell you exactly how it is.
> 
> The bass is, however, clearly very limited in extension, I can't hear any sub. It's even worse than my TO200 that sounds already very dry in the low-end. But I sometimes like that type of sound, depends on mood. The mid-bass is fast, well defined, and not boomy, I prefer it that way even if it lacks sub. Quantity sounded adequate to me.
> 
> I'd be interested by a comparison with the snow lotus too.



Thanks for your input. Re: the lack of bass/subbass, that sounds similar to the VE Monk Lite. I like it (Monk Lite) for certain songs/genres, podcasts, etc...but not for others. It benefits greatly from the bass boost on the Fiio Q1.

If I do get the Snow Lotus and/or the Shiroyuki soon, I'll let you know my thoughts.



LordZero said:


> You could find anyone commenting on the difference of the snow lotus 1+ and 2?



Yes, if I recally correctly it was in the EA group on facebook. Something like 'The SL 1.0 sounds muddled, 2.0 is much better'...



robar said:


> Trying out different foams is the most direct solution, in my experience more dense foams tend to tame the 4-5khz area quite noticeably, like trig rains or those that come with B40.



Talking about Trig Rains foam, can someone provide a link to some Trig Rain foams that are legit off Aliexpress? I did a quick search the other day and there were many, not sure which one is the 'correct'/'best' one.


----------



## fonkepala

LordZero said:


> Thanks, both of you
> 
> The shell seems conforabale, that is why I was looking into then. Wanted something to use while in bed, but wanted a more warm sound, maybe i will go for the Qian39, same shell.



May I suggest the 'Philips' SHE3800 or the Edifier H180? They're both identical and have a similar-sized shell to the Monk Lite. Well, perhaps not as thin/small as the Monk Lites but still very comfortable and suitable to be used in bed (I've tried). They tend to stay in my ears better too. They don't sound thin like the Monk Lite 40, in fact bass is VERY present. If you can only choose one, go for the Edifier H180.


----------



## wskl

fonkepala said:


> Talking about Trig Rains foam, can someone provide a link to some Trig Rain foams that are legit off Aliexpress? I did a quick search the other day and there were many, not sure which one is the 'correct'/'best' one.



https://trigrain518946.aliexpress.com/store/518946

If you navigate to the category "Foam ear pads" you should find what you're looking for, they have several listings depending on the quantity you want to buy.


----------



## subwoof3r (Nov 19, 2019)

felix3650 said:


> Just got a pair of TY Hi-Z HP32 (v2 balanced 2.5mm) last week. I've been running them through the iBasso DC01. There is a peak somewhere in the 3-5khz region cause I hear them "shout" sometimes. Do you guys think it will go away the more the earbud gets worked or is this how it's supposed to sound? My only other reference is the Monk (original).


It will stay like that, unfortunately 
If you feel adventurous you can still mod them but trying to open might result kiling drivers (looks like its much glued on my pair) so I didn't tried yet, I keep them using stock for now (but not listening them much anyway).
My yet best cheapest/entry level earbuds are still for now the *Domoco PK2* that chitty's store made on aliexpress. Much more balanced sound.


----------



## fonkepala

wskl said:


> https://trigrain518946.aliexpress.com/store/518946
> 
> If you navigate to the category "Foam ear pads" you should find what you're looking for, they have several listings depending on the quantity you want to buy.



Got it...thanks much!


----------



## mbwilson111

subwoof3r said:


> My yet best cheapest/entry level earbuds are still for now the *Domoco PK2* that chitty's store made on aliexpress. Much more balanced sound



Excellent earbuds with a very comfortable shell.


----------



## ClieOS

Have been listened to these for the last hour or so - YinCrow RW-1000, fed by FiiO BTR5 + balanced cable. I am kinda surprised that I didn't see RW-1000 makes it to the 11.11 sale, but it is definitely on AliExpress now. I won't go as far as calling it flagship level, but this should make it to to the 2nd tier without any problem. Pretty good effort from YinCrow for their first trial on higher end earbuds


----------



## Jsingh4

ClieOS said:


> Have been listened to these for the last hour or so - YinCrow RW-1000, fed by FiiO BTR5 + balanced cable. I am kinda surprised that I didn't see RW-1000 makes it to the 11.11 sale, but it is definitely on AliExpress now. I won't go as far as calling it flagship level, but this should make it to to the 2nd tier without any problem. Pretty good effort from YinCrow for their first trial on higher end earbuds


Hi @ClieOS can you list the ones you consider in First tier, or is there any first tier with a diaphragm of size less than 14.8mm, i would really appreciate the help.


----------



## ClieOS

Jsingh4 said:


> Hi @ClieOS can you list the ones you consider in First tier, or is there any first tier with a diaphragm of size less than 14.8mm, i would really appreciate the help.



Just the one that pop in my head - DQSM Turandot, Shozy BK


----------



## Jsingh4

ClieOS said:


> Just the one that pop in my head - DQSM Turandot, Shozy BK


Thank you so much although i was wishing for something even smaller like with a 14.2mm diaphragm


----------



## mynamekok

ClieOS said:


> Just the one that pop in my head - DQSM Turandot, Shozy BK



What're differece between Turandot and Shozy?


----------



## ClieOS

Jsingh4 said:


> Thank you so much although i was wishing for something even smaller like with a 14.2mm diaphragm



Most common 14.2mm driver are those used on earpod (and previous generation of iBuds), and those just don't really sound particularly good.

However, while it might not be a flagship, Smabat M1 Pro does use a 14.2mm driver and it will beat any earpod / iBuds by miles.


----------



## ClieOS

mynamekok said:


> What're differece between Turandot and Shozy?




...if only there is a way to find out what people posted in the past...


----------



## oneula

other than my TY Hi-Z HP150s some of this years CF bud haul(except for Zen Omega) from daily drivers at the top o serious listening high impedance ones like the zen/sun requiring proper amplification

1st row L-R:  FAAEAL 64ohm Snow Lotus, Moondrop 32ohm Shiroyuki, FENGRU Tingo 32ohm TC200, Willsound MK2 mmcx
2nd row L-R: FAAEAL Datura Pro, Venture Electronic Sun DICE, Venture Electronics Zen2 Omega, Willsound MK32-8


----------



## felix3650

robar said:


> I don't have your particular earbud, bud it's quite typical to have some kind of peak around 3-5khz, maybe your bud has extra strong peak there (I'm generally sensitive to that range, but there are very peaky buds indeed, like the RY4C). Trying out different foams is the most direct solution, in my experience more dense foams tend to tame the 4-5khz area quite noticeably, like trig rains or those that come with B40. Other remedy would be EQ, in fact a simple general profile would benefit almost all budget earbuds in my opinion, namely increase 30-80hz and decrease 3-5khz by 1-2dB. I tend to pull down the 4-5khz area by 2dB whenever I can.  I don't think any kind of burn in will solve this, there could be few exceptions but in my experience the sound doesn't change at all (maybe in the first few hours but that's about it) I measured a few buds at day 1 and they had the exact same freq response after weeks and months. However physical wear and tear may change the sound but that's another story





subwoof3r said:


> It will stay like that, unfortunately
> If you feel adventurous you can still mod them but trying to open might result kiling drivers (looks like its much glued on my pair) so I didn't tried yet, I keep them using stock for now (but not listening them much anyway).
> My yet best cheapest/entry level earbuds are still for now the *Domoco PK2* that chitty's store made on aliexpress. Much more balanced sound.


Thanks guys. I'll probably give them to my father and get back the monks from him lol.
Maybe the original monk will sound a bit better balanced out of the DC01


----------



## Jsingh4

How are Venture electronics Zen 2 do they come under Total or first tier buds and how do they compare to other TOTL buds.


----------



## oneula

Jsingh4 said:


> How are Venture electronics Zen 2 do they come under Total or first tier buds and how do they compare to other TOTL buds.



The Zen2s I have were not his TOTL Zen2s which were the black or white cabled Zen2s 
He's since updated his line with the Suns and the one's I have are his updated ZenLL Dice at $158usd and his Sun Dice at $298usd.
His top of the line Sun, the Sun Copper runs $598usd while his TOTL iem the Grand Duke runs $1298usd

If you match these up with his amps which is the preferred thing to do, then the Defiants run from $1298-$1798 usd while his Enterprise E Lite runs $2560usd

so if you want his complete TOTL package then you would be spending something like $3000-$4500 usd for an amp and bud/iem.and no source
About the cost of an Altmann Tera Player.

The nice thing about the Suns and Zens is they only sound better the more power (especially clean power) that you can give them. Which is kind of rare for something so small. They are almost like an investment as you start building out your source options. From what I have read, I don't think anyone has maxed them out yet with their gear.

Definitely not cheap chifi stuff, although their roots are in the Monks.

Its personal taste in the end
everyone has a brand or sound that they like


----------



## HungryPanda

Having a child does change things


----------



## groucho69

HungryPanda said:


> Having a child does change things



Only everything


----------



## oneula

Then there's newbies like this out there
sometimes watching guttenberg all I can do is shake my head and wonder, "really?"


----------



## jant71

Not sure if they are of interest but saw Philips has a new Earpod style earbud coming....




...the TAUE100BK .Always hope that Philips will have another good bud like they used to have a few really solid sounding inexpensive models.


----------



## fonkepala

HungryPanda said:


> Having a child does change things



That they do, that they do...


----------



## assassin10000

I think I may have lucked out. 8 days shipping for the Smabat M1 from the 11.11 sale. I was expecting a much longer wait.

Just showed up in the mail earlier today.


----------



## Mhog55

assassin10000 said:


> I think I may have lucked out. 8 days shipping for the Smabat M1 from the 11.11 sale. I was expecting a much longer wait.
> 
> Just showed up in the mail earlier today.


Let me know what you think of them. Mine should be here tomorrow.


----------



## gooeyrich

jant71 said:


> Not sure if they are of interest but saw Philips has a new Earpod style earbud coming....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Let's hope they do as well have they have with headphones like the Fidelio and SHP9500.


----------



## assassin10000 (Nov 20, 2019)

Mhog55 said:


> Let me know what you think of them. Mine should be here tomorrow.



Took a listen before putting them on burn-in. L shape signature with decent sub-bass for a smaller diameter bud. This is with a full foam.


Measures approx. 16.1mm o.d. with my digital caliper.


----------



## Jsingh4

Guys, how are OSTRY KC08, do they come under TOTL earbuds


----------



## j4100

Excellent. NiceHCK on the ball with the 11.11 delivery.


----------



## fonkepala

j4100 said:


> Excellent. NiceHCK on the ball with the 11.11 delivery.



NiceHCK generally has very fast shipping. My B40's are on the way (ordered them after 11.11 tho). Let us know what you think of the B40. Thanks.


----------



## fonkepala

Jsingh4 said:


> Guys, how are OSTRY KC08, do they come under TOTL earbuds



I'd like to know as well. I liked their IEM, the KC06A. From what I've seen on youtube, the KC08 looks hella big, tho.


----------



## flamesofarctica

Got a couple of earbuds arrive that I ordered just before 11.11, including the VE Zen LL - not the DICE version but the basic one they've started selling alongside. I know previously they'd been more of a giveaway with one of the amps. Really impressed with these, can't believe the sound coming out of this tiny form factor. I'd probably rate them in my top 3 earbuds (just after the Zen 2 and Asura 2... I'm clearly a VE fan! Still haven't decided which of those 2 is my number 1, as the Asura is easier to pair with any player).

The other earbud was an Asura 2S. I wanted a spare Asura and been wondering  there anyway if there were any differences with the previous iteration. I will do a head to head later, they seem to have slightly improved highs, although still no harshness whatsoever.

I read that the Zen 2 will be ending once stocks all gone, and at some point before then, may only be sold as part of an earbud / amp combo. Probably won't get a spare Zen 2 however, price to me makes a spare somewhat prohibitive.

Someone asked earlier if the Zen 2 was flagship, and obviously the answer was no - it was but hasn't been for some time. However I'm pretty sure it will remain the most I'll ever spend / have spent on an earbud, so to me it's my totl!


----------



## supplehope

Can anyone give me a good link for K's LBB Black *No Mic*? No Aliexpress as I have already 2 pairs of them with *mics*. Kept the 1st pair. 2nd one I have already opened a dispute. Whatever happens, I just don't care anymore.

Very disappointed, but at the very least, they do not much wrong soundwise for the price I've bought from the 1st store.


----------



## mbwilson111

supplehope said:


> Can anyone give me a good link for K's LBB Black *No Mic*? No Aliexpress as I have already 2 pairs of them with *mics*. Kept the 1st pair. 2nd one I have already opened a dispute. Whatever happens, I just don't care anymore.
> 
> Very disappointed, but at the very least, they do not much wrong soundwise for the price I've bought from the 1st store.



Are you saying that you ordered them with no mic but they sent them with mic?  Twice?  What price did you pay that was good?


----------



## supplehope

mbwilson111 said:


> Are you saying that you ordered them with no mic but they sent them with mic?  Twice?  What price did you pay that was good?



Yes sir. Yeah I bought both from two different stores.

The 1st pair's price was much better. SGD35.31.


----------



## j4100

fonkepala said:


> NiceHCK generally has very fast shipping. My B40's are on the way (ordered them after 11.11 tho). Let us know what you think of the B40. Thanks.



Currently playing them from my phone, streaming my Bandcamp collection. Sounds pretty good to me. Trying them with donut foams, but will likely use them without, as these are to be my sleeping buds.


----------



## ClieOS

fonkepala said:


> I'd like to know as well. I liked their IEM, the KC06A. From what I've seen on youtube, the KC08 looks hella big, tho.



KC08 has excellent build quality and very good reach end-to-end, but the mid is a little dry, almost a very mild U-shaped sound. I'll call it a upper mid-tier. KC08T on the other hand is probably upper 2nd-tier, or even a lower 1st-tier. It has a more neutral tone than KC08, though still a little on the warmer / richer side of things. Overall just a really good all-rounder.


----------



## ClieOS

Earbuds Anonymous
Ostry KC08T


----------



## Jsingh4

Rose Maria is available on Ali,
Did you listen to Rose Maria @ClieOS ?
And if yes how do they compare to other TOTL buds?


----------



## ClieOS

Jsingh4 said:


> Rose Maria is available on Ali,
> Did you listen to Rose Maria @ClieOS ?
> And if yes how do they compare to other TOTL buds?



No one outside of Rose has heard it yet, the final product won't be out till mid-December and it is said to be different sounding than the early prototype they had shown in China awhile back.


----------



## citral23 (Nov 20, 2019)

Follow-up on shiro-yuki impressions after more time with them, still think they lack a bit in bass department, the mids are OK but a bit grainy, and as such don't scale too well with volume, best heard at low to moderate volume, treble is polite. It's so-so but there's nothing inherently wrong with them and I find them lovely as a collectible, will use them now and then for low volume at night.

Ordered the ry4s ue and snow lotus 2.0 too compare, will post a comparison once it's here, along with the nameless that shouldn't take too long anymore.

And the yincrow rw-1000 because I'm incorrigible and hope it will be a better low ohms all-rounder than the EBX that is too fatiguing for me for extended sessions.


----------



## j4100

Oh good. EA has arrived.


----------



## fonkepala

j4100 said:


> Oh good. EA has arrived.



First impressions on the sound quality & ergonomics/build quality please?


----------



## fonkepala

citral23 said:


> Follow-up on shiro-yuki impressions after more time with them, still think they lack a bit in bass department, the mids are OK but a bit grainy, and as such don't scale too well with volume, best heard at low to moderate volume, treble is polite. It's so-so but there's nothing inherently wrong with them and I find them lovely as a collectible, will use them now and then for low volume at night.
> 
> Ordered the ry4s ue and snow lotus 2.0 too compare, will post a comparison once it's here, along with the nameless that shouldn't take too long anymore.
> 
> And the yincrow rw-1000 because I'm incorrigible and hope it will be a better low ohms all-rounder than the EBX that is too fatiguing for me for extended sessions.



Thanks for sharing. Judging from your description of the Shiroyuki's sound, would you say they're similar to the Monk Lite 40ohm?

Really looking forward to your comparo between the Shiroyuki, Snow Lotus 2.0 & ry4s ue.


----------



## fonkepala

j4100 said:


> Currently playing them from my phone, streaming my Bandcamp collection. Sounds pretty good to me. Trying them with donut foams, but will likely use them without, as these are to be my sleeping buds.



Thanks! Can't wait for mine to arrive.



ClieOS said:


> KC08 has excellent build quality and very good reach end-to-end, but the mid is a little dry, almost a very mild U-shaped sound. I'll call it a upper mid-tier. KC08T on the other hand is probably upper 2nd-tier, or even a lower 1st-tier. It has a more neutral tone than KC08, though still a little on the warmer / richer side of things. Overall just a really good all-rounder.



Thanks for this. I googled up the KC08T after reading your post (wasn't aware of it beforehand) and saw that its price is $100 dearer than the KC08....yikes!


----------



## citral23

fonkepala said:


> Thanks for sharing. Judging from your description of the Shiroyuki's sound, would you say they're similar to the Monk Lite 40ohm?
> 
> Really looking forward to your comparo between the Shiroyuki, Snow Lotus 2.0 & ry4s ue.



Sorry I don't have the Monk. The shiro is not super easy to drive, not BK2 or EBX easy I mean. The closest it sounds like in what I have is the TO200, but that one has a more mature sound imo, shiro sounds a bit cheap in comparison (well it's 10€ or so)


----------



## ClieOS

fonkepala said:


> Thanks for this. I googled up the KC08T after reading your post (wasn't aware of it beforehand) and saw that its price is $100 dearer than the KC08....yikes!



Ali price for KC08T is usually a bit higher at $199, where Taobao price is usually around $170. This year I got a great deal on 11.11 that put it at $140, so that makes it my bargain-of-the-year purchase.


----------



## bjk8kds (Nov 21, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> ...
> 
> There are three different type of back vent filters that come with KP120, which gives you three noticeably different sound - the stock black filter is probably the best to my ear with the best balance between detail and warmth. You can also play with full or donut foam with different back vents to further tune the sound, but for the topic I'll keep to just describing the black filter - the overall sound kinda reminds me of PT15, but more upfront and aggressive, lighter on the feet with slightly bright-ish tuning but still have a good bass reach, almost like a very mild U-shaped sound. The re-position of the MMCX socket is a godsend. The over-the-ear design of the KP110 makes fit a hit or miss, but KP120 feels just like a conventional earbud and much easier to recommend.
> 
> ...



I'm newbie here.
I'm planning to buy kp120 (w/ mic) in the future. Is kp120 worth (sacrifice) to buy?
AFAIK no one bought kp120 in my country or at least in my domestic forum (Indonesia). So maybe i'll be the first (?) here.
FYI. My earbud right now just under $15, sabia v7 and headroom ms16.


----------



## ClieOS

bjk8kds said:


> I'm newbie here.
> I'm planning to buy kp120 (w/ mic) in the future. Is kp120 worth (sacrifice) to buy?
> AFAIK no one bought kp120 in my country or at least in my domestic forum (Indonesia). So maybe i'll be the first (?) here.
> FYI. My earbud right now just under $15, sabia v7 and headroom ms16.



I'll say it is worth buying.


----------



## fonkepala

ClieOS said:


> Ali price for KC08T is usually a bit higher at $199, where Taobao price is usually around $170. This year I got a great deal on 11.11 that put it at $140, so that makes it my bargain-of-the-year purchase.



Nice. Too bad I can't shop on Taobao


----------



## baskingshark (Nov 22, 2019)

I just entered my 3rd rabbithole of the world of earbuds thanks to @mbwilson111 (IEMs and headphones being rabbithole 1 and 2).

I have to make a confession, I last used earbuds 20 years ago, and I always had a negative impression that they were inferior to IEMs because of poorer isolation and hence they should be inferior in details and subbass. At the recent 11/11 AE sale, I got the NiceHCK B40 and ME80 as they were cheap, and I gotta say, I have been proven wrong about earbuds. I'm quite impressed by the earbuds' technicalities and subbass when compared head to head with IEMs. No doubt isolation is not their forte, but they make it up by having a better soundstage then IEMs. They are like mini open backed headphones in a way, but might be more convenient in hot weather even.

Just to check, do donut foams and normal foams make a difference to sound? And between the black, grey and blue foams, are there any differences to sound, or it is just asthetics? 

I quite like the shape of the ME80. Am wondering are there upgrades to the ME80 with similar shape, but having a warm signature with good subbass? TIA for your advise!


----------



## citral23 (Nov 22, 2019)

baskingshark said:


> I just entered my 3rd rabbithole of the world of earbuds thanks to @mbwilson111 (IEMs and headphones being rabbithole 1 and 2).
> 
> I have to make a confession, I last used earbuds 20 years ago, and I always had a negative impression that they were inferior to IEMs because of poorer isolation and hence they should be inferior in details and subbass. At the recent 11/11 AE sale, I got the NiceHCK B40 and ME80 as they were cheap, and I gotta say, I have been proven wrong about earbuds. I'm quite impressed by the earbuds' technicalities and subbass when compared head to head with IEMs. No doubt isolation is not their forte, but they make it up by having a better soundstage then IEMs. They are like mini open backed headphones in a way, but might be more convenient in hot weather even.
> 
> ...



This is just aesthetics. Donuts sound brighter for me than full foams, which is logical as foam tames the highs. Some thick donuts also improve the seal and hence the bass for me. I just use full foams on earbuds I find too bright, and donuts otherwise.

I've not listened to the ME80 so it's difficult to recommend something similar, but I'm sure others will. Personally I find my BK2 and TO400s to be the best all-rounders, with the BK2 having the most sub of all my earbuds.

This might happen to you too, since discovering earbuds I've sold most of my IEMs and buy very little anymore. There are some 60-80$ earbuds out there that have really great sound, yes it's more akin to open back headphones, or being close to speakers, I find the sound to have a much more organic nature, I'm still suprised very often by the hit of a bass tom, or other percussive instruments sounding so real, with a physical impact to them.

Isolation is maybe a bit overrated, I doubt we're in good conditions to listen critically waiting for the bus, it's more likely at the end of day in the bedroom, so why isolate ourselves and get poor soundstage and "in the head" effect, not sure. And during the day I prefer to be aware of my surrounding now. So IEMs are really only used for very specific conditions, like the office being really too noisy and I want to "escape" the stress.


----------



## fonkepala

baskingshark said:


> I just entered my 3rd rabbithole of the world of earbuds thanks to @mbwilson111 (IEMs and headphones being rabbithole 1 and 2).
> 
> I have to make a confession, I last used earbuds 20 years ago, and I always had a negative impression that they were inferior to IEMs because of poorer isolation and hence they should be inferior in details and subbass. At the recent 11/11 AE sale, I got the NiceHCK B40 and ME80 as they were cheap, and I gotta say, I have been proven wrong about earbuds. I'm quite impressed by the earbuds' technicalities and subbass when compared head to head with IEMs. No doubt isolation is not their forte, but they make it up by having a better soundstage then IEMs. They are like mini open backed headphones in a way, but might be more convenient in hot weather even.
> 
> ...



Welcome to the rabbit hole 

What do you think of the B40?

And since you're looking for something similar to the ME80 but with warm sound & better subbass, am I correct in assuming that you find the ME80 to have a bright sound signature with less bass?

I'm quite new at this as well, so I don't think I'm qualified enough to answer re: foams and how they modulate the sound. IIRC, donuts are supposed to enhance lower frequencies without sacrificing details and treble. Full foams smoothen things out across the board. I may be wrong, though. Others might be able to give more definitive and authoritative answers re: foams.

It's a nice warm fuzzy rabbit hole, right?


----------



## robar (Nov 22, 2019)

baskingshark said:


> Just to check, do donut foams and normal foams make a difference to sound? And between the black, grey and blue foams, are there any differences to sound, or it is just asthetics?


Yes donut foams will alter the sound. In my experience they will make the sound more v-shaped and open, improve clarity. Generally they push back mids and give more presence to bass and highs. But you have to test it out, everyone's ears are different.The colors don't matter usually, but the density and thickness do. To compare density, hold two foams in front of a white computer screen for example, you'll see how much light they let through. I'd describe the B40 stock foams as average thickness, quite dense. With less dense foam you'll get crispier more open sound with less but tighter bass. Thickness will improve seal, thus increase bass and warm up lower mids. A lack of good seal can make the sound thin and harsh, even if you feel the fit is ok. If you push the buds slightly in your ears, and notice a big difference, then you would benefit from thicker foam.


----------



## dharmasteve (Nov 22, 2019)

baskingshark said:


> I just entered my 3rd rabbithole of the world of earbuds thanks to @mbwilson111 (IEMs and headphones being rabbithole 1 and 2).
> 
> I have to make a confession, I last used earbuds 20 years ago, and I always had a negative impression that they were inferior to IEMs because of poorer isolation and hence they should be inferior in details and subbass. At the recent 11/11 AE sale, I got the NiceHCK B40 and ME80 as they were cheap, and I gotta say, I have been proven wrong about earbuds. I'm quite impressed by the earbuds' technicalities and subbass when compared head to head with IEMs. No doubt isolation is not their forte, but they make it up by having a better soundstage then IEMs. They are like mini open backed headphones in a way, but might be more convenient in hot weather even.
> 
> ...



The Rose Masya Mk 2 (some call it the Pro) has a strong bass profile (they are a different bud to the Rose Masya). The are quite a large bud so a good size ear canal is needed. To my ears they have a stronger bass than the TFZ No.3, but some would find them uncomfortable. I'm a big fan of the Blon 03 but would say this has just as natural tuning, maybe very slightly veiled in comparison with the Blon 03 but with big bass............ IMHO. Not veiled compared to the TFZ No3.


----------



## fonkepala




----------



## HungryPanda

I'm in heaven now


----------



## Nimweth

I received my Smabat M1 Pro today. I am very impressed by the clarity and soundstage, but do find that positioning is critical for an acceptable bass response. What is the best way to obtain a good seal? I am using the supplied foams. Would donut foams be better, and where can I get some to fit the Smabat M1? TIA!


----------



## KevDzn

Nimweth said:


> Would donut foams be better, and where can I get some to fit the Smabat M1? TIA!



Well, you can get some donut foams from here:
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/rdtGgTi0

Or you can get 'nicehck b40 earbud' which comes with donut foams and an earbud.


----------



## mbwilson111

fonkepala said:


> It's a nice warm fuzzy rabbit hole, right?



It is.  I generally find that people are kinder to each other in this thread than they are in a few others.


----------



## Nimweth

KevDzn said:


> Well, you can get some donut foams from here:
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/rdtGgTi0
> 
> Or you can get 'nicehck b40 earbud' which comes with donut foams and an earbud.


Thank you. Ordered!


----------



## cocolinho

HungryPanda said:


> I'm in heaven now


Mine are on their way


----------



## j4100

HungryPanda said:


> I'm in heaven now



Oohh! Was thinking about those, but convinced myself I won't really get much better than my ZOE.


----------



## robar (Nov 22, 2019)

I hope somebody receives the KBear Knight until next friday and share impressions with us  It will be sold for the same as lucky bag price on Ali's BF, it's pretty hard for me to resist haha


----------



## ClieOS (Nov 22, 2019)




----------



## ClieOS

robar said:


> I hope somebody receives the KBear Knight until next friday and share impressions with us  It will be sold for the same as lucky bag price on Ali's BF, it's pretty hard for me to resist haha



No need to resist, it is well worth the asking price.


----------



## oneula

HungryPanda said:


> I'm in heaven now



worth the ~ $200 USD expense?
this and the 800 were on my 11/11 list until I got my VE Sun DICE


----------



## citral23 (Nov 22, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> It is.  I generally find that people are kinder to each other in this thread than they are in a few others.



Indeed. It's like a hippie firecamp where anyone is welcome to sit and ask as many questions as he wants without being ever talked down lol

Regarding donuts, the link posted doesn't work for me on mobile, but if it's not the same I wholeheartedly recommend trig rains :
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/1S0m31zuf
Very good seal

I have their full foams as well, they're ok but not nearly as thick so I don't have a great seal, and they're difficult to fit, easily rip appart. Dense, so good at taming harshness tho.

Enjoy the Turandot Panda, I'm sure they're excellent, but I personally would have to recable them, not keen on that color so not for me. But one day, one day, I'll get a totl earbud


----------



## digititus (Nov 22, 2019)

.


----------



## digititus

Nimweth said:


> I received my Smabat M1 Pro today. I am very impressed by the clarity and soundstage, but do find that positioning is critical for an acceptable bass response. What is the best way to obtain a good seal? I am using the supplied foams. Would donut foams be better, and where can I get some to fit the Smabat M1? TIA!


Use the ear hooks. They make a huge difference. Give them time. The bass will come.


----------



## LordZero

robar said:


> I hope somebody receives the KBear Knight until next friday and share impressions with us  It will be sold for the same as lucky bag price on Ali's BF, it's pretty hard for me to resist haha





ClieOS said:


> Another really good earbud for the price, fairly balanced tonally, if not a little on the warmish / fullish side. Yes, the housing is pretty much all metal and it is not one of those generic housing.



One for me too!


----------



## assassin10000 (Nov 22, 2019)

Nimweth said:


> I received my Smabat M1 Pro today. I am very impressed by the clarity and soundstage, but do find that positioning is critical for an acceptable bass response. What is the best way to obtain a good seal? I am using the supplied foams. Would donut foams be better, and where can I get some to fit the Smabat M1? TIA!



If you were wearing cable down, try wearing over ear? You can also double foam (donut over regular, or even double donut). Plus there is the wings you can try.

Could be the smaller shell design that is 16.1mm dia. is too small with a single foam for you. Do you prefer smaller shell earbuds (pk) or larger (mx500)?


For me they sat perfectly when worn over ear.


----------



## baskingshark

Thanks for everyone on your advises about donut and full foams.

I quite like the NiceHCK ME80 sound signature after more listening with them. 
Other than the Rose Masya Mk 2 that was recommended, are there any other earbuds with the same form factor as the ME80, but maybe a set that is midcentric with good quantity of subbass? Budget ~ 100 USD but maybe can increase it a bit if it is highly recommended.

TIA!!


----------



## BloodyPenguin (Nov 23, 2019)

My thoughts on the *Rose Masya MK2*:

"_A rose by any other name would smell as sweet_" - William Shakespeare

Nothing could be more true of the Masya MK2, as it is a direct evolution of the original.

The silkiest of sound, only tweaked to provide deeper bass and even more clarity. 

The build quality has also been upgraded; the housings are now slightly smaller in depth and have been smoothed to feel even more premium in the hand.

Accessories now include both the OCC cable and a silver-plated copper cable, along with ear guides to allow for more flexible fit.

_*Disclaimer - These might be fancy words, but it is a fancy earbud.  I was provided a sample of this earbud for review and to compare with the original*































--_


----------



## 77asdor77

Can aynone suggest me good earbud under 15$ ? I have snow lotus 1.0 and its pretty good but 
I want to try something new


----------



## dharmasteve

BloodyPenguin said:


> My thoughts on the *Rose Masya Pro*:
> 
> "_A rose by any other name would smell as sweet_" - William Shakespeare
> 
> ...



The Rose Masya MK2 is a top notch earbud.  Not to be confused with the Rose Masya.  Big bass,  nice mids and highs that really respond to equalization for those who like that.  I really like them a lot.


----------



## RobinFood

Finally got the chance to try the Moondrop buds, namely the Liebesleid and the Chaconne.

I first tried the Liebesleid, and had a wow moment. It had amazing resolution, great mids, nice bass, but the stars was the treble sparkle and how emotional the mids sounded. They sounded great, detailed, wide, and sparkly sweet.

The Chaconne had much better fit. I didn't think the Liebesleid was uncomfortable at first, but switching from the Liebesleid to the Chaconne the Liebs felt much more loose and prone to accidentally falling out.

I thought the Chaconne had the same signature open sound and extreme resolution, but it lost the sparkle of the Liebs and the bass also seemed to have ever so slightly less punch. The mids though somehow felt even more resolute and expressive. Female vocals especially were extremely emotional and clear sounding. 

Both sets had top of the line soundstage and positioning. The main difference I felt is that the Liebs are ever so slightly U shaped, with sparkly highs and nice warm bass, while the Chacs felt more expressive for vocals and fit better. If I were to buy one, I would probably get the Liebs. The sparkle on the highs was really special and helped pull out a lot of detail, the mids were still top-of-the-line, and while the fit is the only thing I feel is a little sub par (loose), they are about 100$ cheaper.

Compared to the Smabat ST-10, I feel like the rumble on the Smabat's sub-bass is better, but they sound much colder overall, and the mids on the ST-10 are extremely clear and resolute sounding but sometimes sound sterile and lifeless. The stage and imaging is about the same.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

dharmasteve said:


> The Rose Masya MK2 is a top notch earbud.  Not to be confused with the Rose Masya.  Big bass,  nice mids and highs that really respond to equalization for those who like that.  I really like them a lot.



OMG!  Haaa!  I was so tired when I posted this I labeled it wrong!!!  Haa!  Thank you for the correction, I have edited my post.


----------



## ricesteam

Where do you buy the Rose Masya Mk2? All I can find are Rose Masya Pro.


----------



## Jsingh4

Which earbud has slamming bass and deep soundstage with clear mids?


----------



## LordZero

Can someone compare the nicehck pk2 diy with the B40?


----------



## dharmasteve

ricesteam said:


> Where do you buy the Rose Masya Mk2? All I can find are Rose Masya Pro.



On Penon the Rose Masya Mk 2 is called the Rose Masya Pro.  I bought it from Penon and for some reason they call it the pro.  I had to draw it to their attention that they had the wrong figures up for the Mk2. They have now been corrected.  I have quite a few IEMs and Buds and can say that I listen to two generally.  The Rose Masya Mk2 and the Blon 03. You could very possibly get a discount if you ask.


----------



## robar (Nov 23, 2019)

Jsingh4 said:


> Which earbud has slamming bass and deep soundstage with clear mids?


If you're looking for budget solution and know how to solder, I can recommend this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32980742390.html
Big bass, clear mids, deep soundstage just as you ordered. It beats anything I have or had up to this point (more than a dozen buds under 15usd). Only con is that in stock tuning the 3-5khz range can be a bit sharp depending on your source or individual song. (many earbuds have this trait, depends on foam choice too) I'll experiment with tuning and different shells in the future but for now I leave it as it is because it's already so good.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

dharmasteve said:


> On Penon the Rose Masya Mk 2 is called the Rose Masya Pro.  I bought it from Penon and for some reason they call it the pro.  I had to draw it to their attention that they had the wrong figures up for the Mk2. They have now been corrected.  I have quite a few IEMs and Buds and can say that I listen to two generally.  The Rose Masya Mk2 and the Blon 03. You could very possibly get a discount if you ask.



This is how I got confused.  I was told I was getting the Pro.  It even had the "Pro" photo on the box, but is labled the MK2 and had the MK2 inside.


----------



## HungryPanda

77asdor77 said:


> Can aynone suggest me good earbud under 15$ ? I have snow lotus 1.0 and its pretty good but
> I want to try something new


 Get the K's 300


----------



## dharmasteve

There was never a pro. It was always either the Rose Masya or the Rose Masya Mk2. Penon called them the Pro, but on the box it was Mk2. Don't know what Penon was doing.


----------



## mbwilson111

dharmasteve said:


> There was never a pro. It was always either the Rose Masya or the Rose Masya Mk2. Penon called them the Pro, but on the box it was Mk2. Don't know what Penon was doing.



I bought my Rose Masya from someone else who may have also gotten it used.   Is there a way to know what version this one is?


----------



## dharmasteve

mbwilson111 said:


> I bought my Rose Masya from someone else who may have also gotten it used.   Is there a way to know what version this one is?



I'm no expert but I think those are the original Rose Masya the one before the Mk2/Pro.


----------



## mbwilson111

dharmasteve said:


> I'm no expert but I think those are the original Rose Masya the one before the Mk2/Pro.



Well, whatever they are, they sound amazing.


----------



## dharmasteve

mbwilson111 said:


> Well, whatever they are, they sound amazing.



The only problem with Rose earbuds is they are pretty big and take some getting used to in the ear.  But it's worth it.


----------



## mbwilson111

dharmasteve said:


> The only problem with Rose earbuds is they are pretty big and take some getting used to in the ear.  But it's worth it.



I don't find them to be as big as they look.   That flat outer part is not in the ear.  The part that is in my ear just slots in.  The person I bought mine from could not get a fit.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

dharmasteve said:


> The only problem with Rose earbuds is they are pretty big and take some getting used to in the ear.  But it's worth it.



It is so strange, at first I really struggled with fit, but now they seem just fine.  Though ears do change over time, I must be getting old.


----------



## LordZero

BloodyPenguin said:


> It is so strange, at first I really struggled with fit, but now they seem just fine.  Though ears do change over time, I must be getting old.



Same as me, but now they seem to fit nice. Still waiting for some for the rings of the VE Ex pack. Anyone tried to use them over-ear?


----------



## DBaldock9

BloodyPenguin said:


> It is so strange, at first I really struggled with fit, but now they seem just fine.  Though ears do change over time, I must be getting old.



You'll know you're getting old, when the hair growing out of your ears provides a cushion for your earbuds...


----------



## dharmasteve

BloodyPenguin said:


> It is so strange, at first I really struggled with fit, but now they seem just fine.  Though ears do change over time, I must be getting old.



Maybe all good things require a bit of effort.  The Rose Masya's are well worth that effort.  They are also very efficient and easily driven,  have a 'big' sound and plenty of low end.  Maybe a little pricey but I think they are worth it.


----------



## seanc6441

dharmasteve said:


> The only problem with Rose earbuds is they are pretty big and take some getting used to in the ear.  But it's worth it.


And they break easily.


----------



## dharmasteve

seanc6441 said:


> And they break easily.



Actually that's true.  I got a tiny chip on the varnish the first day I got them.


----------



## seanc6441

dharmasteve said:


> Actually that's true.  I got a tiny chip on the varnish the first day I got them.


The plastic used literally begins to deteriorate in the longterm. Both my Masya and Mojito have showed signs of it.

Hopefully they get their act together for the latests products. They need to change the type of 3d printing matierial they use.


----------



## citral23 (Nov 23, 2019)

dharmasteve said:


> Maybe all good things require a bit of effort.


Out of context, yes generally all good things in life require a bit of effort. Anyone feels better after a day outside than on the couch.

Regarding earphones, yes there are some things out there that are worth experimenting with various tips or foams, and if it's not horrible in the first place, it's always worth spending more time with it, or maybe put it aside and come back to it later.

Our taste changes with time, brain burn-in is real, too, and we can come to love imperfections as well.

I really didn't like the TO200 at first, and it's now my workplace earbud, which says a lot as I spend 7 hours a day there. It's not perfect but it has *something* I love.

The shiro-yuki didn't impress me much at first either, but I found it quite impressive at super low volume today, the tonekings are the opposite and get better as the volume rises.

Give everything a chance, regardless of price imo.

Otoh I've been guilty to absolutely try to like and make crappy iems work because it was hard to admit I made a bad purchase, and it's a complete waste on time. Better just move on.


----------



## Kumonomukou

Just found a deal on AliExpress for K's earphone little black bell. They'll be sold for $17.20 prior coupon. I think this is one of the better deals out there. Make sure to search for ' K's LBB ' instead of ' Ksearphone ', sold by EE Audio Store.

I've sort of stopped buying earbuds after shifted to Bluetooth sets, and these might be my sole purchase for the upcoming sale. Grab them if you're remotely interested. Happy sharing! :]


----------



## citral23

The kbear knight will sell for for 10€ instead of 14 on kbear store, too. As I trust ClieOS's judgement it's in my shopping cart.


----------



## groucho69

Kumonomukou said:


> Just found a deal on AliExpress for K's earphone little black bell. They'll be sold for $17.20 prior coupon. I think this is one of the better deals out there. Make sure to search for ' K's LBB ' instead of ' Ksearphone ', sold by EE Audio Store.
> 
> I've sort of stopped buying earbuds after shifted to Bluetooth sets, and these might be my sole purchase for the upcoming sale. Grab them if you're remotely interested. Happy sharing! :]



In my cart


----------



## Mhog55

Has anyone ordered the Smabat M1 Pro from Amazon? I ordered mine last Sunday, and they haven't even shipped yet. Doesn't seem right. It shows that if I order them today, they would be delivered this coming Tuesday. Seems strange. Never had shipping issues via Amazon.


----------



## waynes world (Nov 23, 2019)

groucho69 said:


> In my cart



I had a glass of wine (dangerous). I like the form factor and the price ($23.73CAD on black friday). They are in my cart as well.

Time to do some searching to find out what the heck they sound like!

Edit: that "kbear" looks very nice as well. No more wine!


----------



## rkw

Mhog55 said:


> Has anyone ordered the Smabat M1 Pro from Amazon? I ordered mine last Sunday, and they haven't even shipped yet. Doesn't seem right.


No it doesn't, especially if you have Prime. What does your order status say?
Their chat customer support system quickly resolved problems for me a few times: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/contact-us/


----------



## LordZero

Kumonomukou said:


> Just found a deal on AliExpress for K's earphone little black bell. They'll be sold for $17.20 prior coupon. I think this is one of the better deals out there. Make sure to search for ' K's LBB ' instead of ' Ksearphone ', sold by EE Audio Store.
> 
> I've sort of stopped buying earbuds after shifted to Bluetooth sets, and these might be my sole purchase for the upcoming sale. Grab them if you're remotely interested. Happy sharing! :]



They look really good for listing music in bed. How do they sound? Can't find reviews.


----------



## robar (Nov 24, 2019)

LordZero said:


> They look really good for listing music in bed. How do they sound? Can't find reviews.


search for K's LBB in this thread. I read a large portion of it because I'm also interested in it, especially because of the shell. My conclusion based on the posts is that it's a nice smooth and light sounding earbud. I think I would need more bass than it provides, so I'll order the Knight personally, looks like a safer bet for me. (For bed I use  Qian39 and ordered Faaeal Z-sound, so the small shell for me is not a necessity at the moment)


----------



## LordZero (Nov 24, 2019)

robar said:


> search for K's LBB in this thread. I read a large portion of it because I'm also interested in it, especially because of the shell. My conclusion based on the posts is that it's a nice smooth and light sounding earbud. I think I would need more bass than it provides, so I'll order the Knight personally, looks like a safer bet for me. (For bed I use  Qian39 and ordered Faaeal Z-sound, so the small shell for me is not a necessity at the moment)



Thank you I think I will order the K's LBB and the Knight.

Also, anyone can recommend a good mmcx cable for the Willsound MkII?


----------



## baskingshark

robar said:


> search for K's LBB in this thread. I read a large portion of it because I'm also interested in it, especially because of the shell. My conclusion based on the posts is that it's a nice smooth and light sounding earbud. I think I would need more bass than it provides, so I'll order the Knight personally, looks like a safer bet for me. (For bed I use  Qian39 and ordered Faaeal Z-sound, so the small shell for me is not a necessity at the moment)



Are there any reviews for the Knight? I am quite interested in it and the BK2 for Black Friday sales.


----------



## robar (Nov 24, 2019)

baskingshark said:


> Are there any reviews for the Knight? I am quite interested in it and the BK2 for Black Friday sales.


ClieOS wrote brief impressions on the prototype, it was quoted a few posts above. If I remember correctly he said it has a balanced, warm, full sound - just what I'm looking for. Also a few members here ordered it on 11.11, so I hope some of them will review it in the next few days 

edit:
If we get 2usd coupons again on aliexpress, the Knight will be only 10usd with free shipping - looks like the best deal of the year for me, if it's really that good.

I found the original post:


ClieOS said:


> Another really good earbud for the price, fairly balanced tonally, if not a little on the warmish / fullish side. Yes, the housing is pretty much all metal and it is not one of those generic housing.


----------



## tendou

waynes world said:


> The last tracking notice for my ANN's was Mar08. And then they magically arrived today.
> 
> 
> I've thrown the silver cabled ANN in my ears, and I really like what I'm hearing. I'm reaching for the hype machine key!



How big is it compared to mx500 shell size?


----------



## HungryPanda

I have the Knight and the BK2 and would reach for the BK2 every time


----------



## HungryPanda

tendou said:


> How big is it compared to mx500 shell size?


 They are practically the same size


----------



## robar (Nov 24, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> I have the Knight and the BK2 and would reach for the BK2 every time


Could you elaborate a bit on the sound signature of the Knight? You might like the BK2 better but it's not really helpful for us because we don't know your preferences and might have different needs or tastes. The BK2 also costs twice as much at discount price and about 3x more at original price, so I'd be glad if you could compare it to other 10usd buds, at least on sound signature level. Thanks in advance


----------



## citral23 (Nov 24, 2019)

robar said:


> Could you elaborate a bit on the sound signature of the Knight? You might like the BK2 better but it's not really helpful for us because we don't know your preferences and might have different needs or tastes. The BK2 also costs twice as much at discount price and 3-4x more at retail price, so I'd be glad if you could compare it to other 10usd buds, at least on sound signature level. Thanks in advance



The BK2 is worth every single penny, at 20€ it has a perfectly fine stock cable, and sounds just superb if you want a general, good at everything earbud. (Movies, acoustic and edm, it does it all great) It sounds warm and friendly to the ears, with great bass extension, texture and quantity, but without being slow, the bass keeps up really well with fast tracks, just the right amount of decay imo (I sometimes wish my tonekings would be more like it in the lows)

Mids are perfect and highs extend well with good detail and clarity but not extraordinary either, it's an overall laid-back and pleasing sound that suits extended sessions very well.

I still have to find something negative about it, but I simply can't.

While I appreciate the technicity of my 60-80$ earbuds, If I had to keep only one, it would be the bk2 tbh. Might change with the TO600 but for now, it's my #1 because it's good at everything.

I actually sent my pair as a present to a good friend, who was curious about earbuds, I think it's the perfect entry into this world, many other options would be lacking in bass for the untrained ear I think. I naturally had to immediately rebuy them


----------



## robar

citral23 said:


> The BK2 is worth every single penny, at 20€ it has a perfectly fine stock cable, and sounds just superb if you want a general, good at everything earbud. It sounds warm and friendly to the ears, with great bass extension, texture and quantity, but without being slow, the bass keeps up really well with fast tracks, just the right amount of decay imo (I sometimes wish my tonekings would be more like it in the lows)
> 
> Mids are perfect and highs extend well with good detail and clarity but not extraordinary either, it's an overall laid-back and pleasing sound that suits extended sessions very well.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the detailed impressions, the BK2 looks very nice indeed. I'll consider it but I'm just not really comfortable with spending that money on stock buds at the moment, I had some big disappointments lately with QC and bass quantity etc. I'm just more interested in the Knight at the moment, especially compared objectively to ry4s, qian69, b40 etc.


----------



## citral23

robar said:


> Thanks for the detailed impressions, the BK2 looks very nice indeed. I'll consider it but I'm just not really comfortable with spending that money on stock buds at the moment, I had some big disappointments lately with QC and bass quantity etc. I'm just more interested in the Knight at the moment, especially compared objectively to ry4s, qian69, b40 etc.



Well you can buy 2 so-so 10$ buds or one great 20$ bud, chose wisely!

I removed the knight from my card following panda's remark. I don't really need "less good" stuff than what I have and still waiting for nameless, to600, ry4S, rw1000 and snow lotus 2.0 lol, this will become quickly difficult to justify ^^

I intend to make more presents tho.


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 24, 2019)




----------



## HungryPanda

The KB EAR Knight is nothing special to me, I prefer K's K64 or K300 which are cheaper. I will burn them in more and take it from there


----------



## Nimweth

I am finally hearing what the Smabat M1s are capable of. After 50 hours burn in and fitting the earhooks (which I have never used before), I am very impressed by the soundstage, timbre and imaging. I am now getting an acceptable bass response. It takes a bit of time to get used to the lack of isolation, and the M1 is very power hungry but I think I am warming to their presentation. Full review coming soon.


----------



## robar (Nov 24, 2019)

citral23 said:


> Well you can buy 2 so-so 10$ buds or one great 20$ bud, chose wisely!
> 
> I removed the knight from my card following panda's remark. I don't really need "less good" stuff than what I have and still waiting for nameless, to600, ry4S, rw1000 and snow lotus 2.0 lol, this will become quickly difficult to justify ^^
> 
> I intend to make more presents tho.


My problem is that I don't trust subjective statements any more for example “I like better than that”. I bought a bunch of hyped earbuds based on these kind of opinions and I either didn't like them at all (ry4c, tc200) or found something annoying about them (ry4s ue, b40). Everyone has different tastes, ears, gears, preferences, use cases etc. so for me the only useful review is a direct comparison with something I know, so in relative terms, not absolute subjective statements. Something like, this bud has deeper bass, brighter mids and tamed highs compared to xy, you know what I mean, so I can interpolate from that. For example, I personally would like something that has deeper stronger bass, cleaner smoother mids and more extended, neutral highs compared to Qian69. I fear that I would found BK2 thin, sharp, as there are controversial reviews, but I couldn't find a direct comparison with something I've had before so I can't know for sure.


----------



## citral23

Best black Friday deal lol


----------



## HungryPanda

best bargain https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32846380457.html


----------



## Mhog55

I would steer clear from ordering the M1 Pro from Amazon. My order was scheduled to be delivered last Tuesday, the 19th, and they still haven't shipped. I attempted to cancel the order, but received a response stating I could not, and delivery schedule was still in the works. This is a prime item, and I am a prime member. I messaged the seller and have not received a response. Their review feedback was stellar up until about 3.5 weeks ago, in which time they have had 4 negative reviews. I'll give them until tomorrow or Tuesday to reply. If I don't, I guess I'll have to file a claim and try to get my money back. 1st time I've ever had an issue with Amazon Prime.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Kumonomukou said:


> Just found a deal on AliExpress for K's earphone little black bell.



Which is better: K's LBB or NICEHCK EB2?


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 24, 2019)

Alex.Grimm said:


> Which is better: K's LBB or NICEHCK EB2?


LBB has weak low end but good mids and highs that are pretty neutral.

EB2 has a bit more mid bass, clear (but a little off sounding tonally) mids, and smooth highs.

Both are clear sounding but the LBB is slighty more detailed. EB2 has wider soundstage.

Not a huge fan of either but if you dont care about bass quantity the LBB is a better earbud technically. But EB2 will sound sweeter because it has some mid bass presence to balance with the upper midrange emphasis.


----------



## KevDzn

Most of the prices for Black Friday sales are much better then the 11.11 on aliexpress. Must be a new strategy to get us poor souls 2 times. Xmas sales round the corner?


----------



## tendou

seanc6441 said:


> LBB has weak low end but good mids and highs that are pretty neutral.
> 
> EB2 has a bit more mid bass, clear (but a little off sounding tonally) mids, and smooth highs.
> 
> ...


So what do you like?


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 25, 2019)

tendou said:


> So what do you like?


At a similar price range?

Kube v2, DIY PK SR2 and other Docomo type earbuds. Willsound mk2 if you stretch the budget slightly.

Those would be the best budget earbuds I've heard. Although the mk2 can easily be considered a mid priced earbud if you go for the more expensive variants. I think its $30 for a stock wired or mmcx mk2 without cable raising up to around $75+ for the premium versions. The other two buds I mentioned are around $10-20.


----------



## Makahl

Hey, can someone compare the ISN Audio Rambo to the Shozy Cygnus? The Cygnus was the first earbud that I got the "wow' factor because of its mids but I sold it after my cable started getting all greenish - and I kinda regret it. So, in this BF I want to buy an earbud with this shell and Rambo seems pretty cool but I couldn't find much info about it.


----------



## tendou

seanc6441 said:


> At a similar price range?
> 
> Kube v2, DIY PK SR2 and other Docomo type earbuds. Willsound mk2 if you stretch the budget slightly.
> 
> Those would be the best budget earbuds I've heard. Although the mk2 can easily be considered a mid priced earbud if you go for the more expensive variants. I think its $30 for a stock wired or mmcx mk2 without cable raising up to around $75+ for the premium versions. The other two buds I mentioned are around $10-20.



Isn't lbb and eb2 just a bit more expensive than the others? I tried a docomo once but it got problems with the cable so I returned it.

Have you heard ann n200?

Also what you think of bk2?

Thanks


----------



## subwoof3r

If someone is interested/curious, I dismantled one (of my two) pairs of *Edifier H180*, you can see how the internal looks *HERE *


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 25, 2019)

tendou said:


> Isn't lbb and eb2 just a bit more expensive than the others? I tried a docomo once but it got problems with the cable so I returned it.
> 
> Have you heard ann n200?
> 
> ...


I haven't heard those as I have not tried any of the budget earbuds this past 6 months since my Tinnitus has been preventing me from using earbuds much lately but I had most of the popular budget earbuds before that so I'm comparing to anything from emx500/ry4sUE/Vido etc

I  think the kube is better balanced throughout the full range than many of those (even if it sounds a bit warm and dark with full foams). It's definitely more of a candidate for modding than a perfect earbud in stock form but its still good as stock, just with some weaknesses like soft treble effecting the detail retreival.

The willsound mk2 is more neutral, slightly V shape but tastefully done. Similar bass to the kube but a little but more mid bassy (imo the kube has slightly better bass linearity) , better detail in the midrange but also slightly more recessed in the vocal range, slightly more treble emphasis too.

The docomo buds are very much for modding, and while the midrange is the highlight in those earbuds, and the sparkly treble, the bass can have some impact if you get the right driver and tuning.


----------



## groucho69

You may be ordering from China even though it is on Amazon. It WILL take longer than most Amazon orders.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

seanc6441 said:


> I haven't heard those as I have not tried any of the budget earbuds this past 6 months since my Tinnitus has been preventing me from using earbuds much lately



Sorry. I also recently had Tinnitus, I went to the doctor, take pills, I think it began to appear less often. But I still listen to music on the way to work


----------



## tendou

seanc6441 said:


> I haven't heard those as I have not tried any of the budget earbuds this past 6 months since my Tinnitus has been preventing me from using earbuds much lately but I had most of the popular budget earbuds before that so I'm comparing to anything from emx500/ry4sUE/Vido etc
> 
> I  think the kube is better balanced throughout the full range than many of those (even if it sounds a bit warm and dark with full foams). It's definitely more of a candidate for modding than a perfect earbud in stock form but its still good as stock, just with some weaknesses like soft treble effecting the detail retreival.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your explanation. I may need to check the kube v2. Hope your tinnitus heal soon.


----------



## Mhog55

mbwilson111 said:


> I would be wondering if something has happened to the person involved with the store.


That, or maybe they're waiting on Smabat... Though it's still showing as in stock.


----------



## Nimweth

QUOTE="Mhog55, post: 15327037, member: 489125"]Yeah, you're the 2nd person to tell me that. For whatever reason, they dropped the ball on my order. I'll attempt a refund tomorrow, and likely go with the DX5 instead.[/QUOTE]
You could try contacting Sunny at this email address:
sunshine_528023@163.com
She is very helpful!


----------



## Mhog55

Nimweth said:


> QUOTE="Mhog55, post: 15327037, member: 489125"]Yeah, you're the 2nd person to tell me that. For whatever reason, they dropped the ball on my order. I'll attempt a refund tomorrow, and likely go with the DX5 instead.


You could try contacting Sunny at this email address:
sunshine_528023@163.com
She is very helpful![/QUOTE]
Very cool. Thank you... Who is Sunny?


----------



## darmanastartes

I'll be getting the Kbear Knight for review and will be able to compare it to the Nicehck ME80.


----------



## robar (Nov 25, 2019)

I'd be interested in the Kube buds, but they cost 20usd with the worst economy shipping to my country, doesn't seem a good value for that money plus shipping risks, so I'll skip them unfortunately :/.



darmanastartes said:


> I'll be getting the Kbear Knight for review and will be able to compare it to the Nicehck ME80.


Great! Will you get it before black friday?  Please compare it to Qian69 too if it's possible, as you did in your ME80 review. By the way, how do you like the Fiio BTR1K as USB DAC for Windows? I'm planning to buy one mainly for that purpose, to use it with my laptop and sometimes with my phone. (BT function is just icing on the cake for me) It'll be sold below 40usd on BF if I remember correctly


----------



## darmanastartes

robar said:


> I'd be interested in the Kube buds, but they cost 20usd with the worst economy shipping to my country, doesn't seem a good value for that money plus shipping risks, so I'll skip them unfortunately :/.
> 
> 
> Great! Will you get it before black friday?  Please compare it to Qian69 too if it's possible, as you did in your ME80 review. By the way, how do you like the Fiio BTR1K as USB DAC for Windows? I'm planning to buy one mainly for that purpose, to use it with my laptop and sometimes with my phone. (BT function is just icing on the cake for me) It'll be sold below 40usd on BF if I remember correctly


Unfortunately I doubt I will get them this week, but I can compare them to the Qian69 as well. 
I would not recommend the BTR1K as a USB DAC for Windows because it turns itself off automatically after a very short period of not playing any audio. It's quite irritating to have to hold down the power button every time that happens.


----------



## robar (Nov 25, 2019)

darmanastartes said:


> Unfortunately I doubt I will get them this week, but I can compare them to the Qian69 as well.
> I would not recommend the BTR1K as a USB DAC for Windows because it turns itself off automatically after a very short period of not playing any audio. It's quite irritating to have to hold down the power button every time that happens.


Hmm, I know this is off topic here, but to keep it short, have you tried adjusting the power settings or usb drivers in windows? Seems like a power setting issue in the OS, like it's putting the usb port to sleep or something like that.  There is a dedicated thread here on headfi for BTR products, where Fiio gives official help for problems like this. But how is the sound quality? Anyways, looking forward to your review


----------



## darmanastartes

robar said:


> Hmm, I know this is off topic here, but to keep it short, have you tried adjusting the power settings or usb drivers in windows? Seems like a power setting issue in the OS, like it's putting the usb port to sleep or something like that. There is a dedicated thread here on headfi for BTR products, where Fiio gives official help for problems like this. But how is the sound quality? Anyways, looking forward to your review


I haven't used it as a USB DAC in a while so I'd need to listen to it in that setting again to give reliable impressions. I've been using it over Apt-X on runs with the Qian69 for the past couple of months. Shoot me a PM and I'll get back to you?


----------



## robar (Nov 25, 2019)

darmanastartes said:


> I haven't used it as a USB DAC in a while so I'd need to listen to it in that setting again to give reliable impressions. I've been using it over Apt-X on runs with the Qian69 for the past couple of months. Shoot me a PM and I'll get back to you?


Ok, thanks! I recommend to search for "disable windows usb selective suspend", I think this might be your problem with the usb connection. I believe you can also turn off usb power management all together for particular devices.


----------



## Mhog55

Does anyone perhaps have a Willsound mk2 mmcx they would be willing to sell?


----------



## silverfishla

Hey guys I’m in Bangkok right now and was wondering if anyone knew where I could check out some earbuds or buy some Kubes out here?  Any help would be very appreciated.  I’m in the Siam Square area.


----------



## chaiyuta

silverfishla said:


> Hey guys I’m in Bangkok right now and was wondering if anyone knew where I could check out some earbuds or buy some Kubes out here?  Any help would be very appreciated.  I’m in the Siam Square area.


Go to Paragon Department store (munkong gadget), or Amarin Plaza (munkong gadget flagship store). You might find demo units of UCOTECH ES-P1, Sunrise SW Dragon, Moondrop, etc.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Mhog55 said:


> Does anyone perhaps have a Willsound mk2 mmcx they would be willing to sell?



I think you should write and ask to do for you



Spoiler



https://www.facebook.com/WillSound-355453261556612/


----------



## Jsingh4 (Nov 26, 2019)

Guys how is DIY Tingo Tc400 any idea they look good also available in 2 colors, i heard that both color sounds different.


----------



## fonkepala

citral23 said:


> Well you can buy 2 so-so 10$ buds or one great 20$ bud, chose wisely!



And there indeed lies the rub 



tendou said:


> Thank you for your explanation. I may need to check the kube v2. Hope your tinnitus heal soon.



I'm getting interested in the Kube2 as well. Searching previous posts here turns out a myriad of opinions, with some saying that it's too dark/warmish sounding, while more recent ones have been more positive. I think I'll take a risk on a pair...or two! Not a fan of the flat cable though.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

tendou said:


> Thank you for your explanation. I may need to check the kube v2.



Earkube EK2 and Kube v1 are 2 different earbuds. I advise you to buy only Kube v1 or Kube v1 Plus Mod by Willsound (has a lot of bass)


----------



## tendou

Alex.Grimm said:


> Earkube EK2 and Kube v1 are 2 different earbuds. I advise you to buy only Kube v1 or Kube v1 Plus Mod by Willsound (has a lot of bass)


I only found kube v2. Willsound mk32 I have asked willsound but it's out of my budget territories


----------



## tendou

fonkepala said:


> And there indeed lies the rub
> 
> 
> 
> I'm getting interested in the Kube2 as well. Searching previous posts here turns out a myriad of opinions, with some saying that it's too dark/warmish sounding, while more recent ones have been more positive. I think I'll take a risk on a pair...or two! Not a fan of the flat cable though.


Only found kube v2 though


----------



## tendou

Bk2 , how big it is compared to mx500 shell?


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 26, 2019)

fonkepala said:


> And there indeed lies the rub
> 
> 
> 
> I'm getting interested in the Kube2 as well. Searching previous posts here turns out a myriad of opinions, with some saying that it's too dark/warmish sounding, while more recent ones have been more positive. I think I'll take a risk on a pair...or two! Not a fan of the flat cable though.


It is a bit dark and warm, a bit narrow staging... In stock form.

This bud has a lot of modding potential I think. It's got extremely impressive bass for $8, much better than the vido bass IMO because it has extension without too much of a peak in the mid bass which means you can get more out of the low end without a ridiculous amount of midbass bloat.

If some shell and tuning mods could bring up the treble slightly it may fix all if not most of these issues.

I haven't been able to do it myself because i cannot use ear buds right now but I would imagine looking at the post made about vido drivers in alternative housings would be a good indicator how most 15.6mm drivers perform in different shells.

Someone needs to transplant a kube v2 driver into a metal shell with a inner chamber design unlike the mx500 design which is more of a hybrid open/semi closed design.

I believe earbuds put into these alternative shell types can show more energy in the midrange 1-3khz and treble if tuned right. Which might help the kube greatly.


----------



## Mhog55

Alex.Grimm said:


> I think you should write and ask to do for you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you mean post in the classifieds section, I have done that. Thank you


----------



## gazzington

Is the yuin pk1 a good purchase these days? I've acquired an altman tera player. Just wondering if these would be a good match


----------



## caracal (Nov 26, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> best bargain https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32846380457.html


Could anybody describe the sound signature of these buds please?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Mhog55 said:


> If you mean post in the classifieds section, I have done that. Thank you



personally to the manufacturer


----------



## Mhog55

Alex.Grimm said:


> personally to the manufacturer


I see. Do you have a link to the website or any contact information.


----------



## Mhog55

Alex.Grimm said:


> personally to the manufacturer


Will this work?


----------



## groucho69

Mhog55 said:


> Will this work?



Yes


----------



## theresanarc (Nov 26, 2019)

Got my 11.11 purchase today.....the Toneking ROS1 for $19. It was recommended on here earlier when I asked about which earbud has a small shell because I find that more comfortable and it feels like the sound is closer to you than an MX500 shell.

Unfortunately, while the shell is definitely smaller in diameter to anything I own, it's not a small shell because of a weirdly bulky thick size so it doesn't fit closely into the ear. I actually still found the Qian39 to fit better despite being maybe a mm+ wider but the shell is thinner. In terms of sound, they haven't 'burned-in' but they sound fairly unremarkable to my pleb DAC-less ears. Not bad at all, maybe on the brighter side but definitely not notably better than the sub-$10 buds I own. They do have a good build quality and maybe they will fit better on others who have a larger ear and they'll get that snug fit that I was hoping for with a smaller shell but I personally now am just gonna buy a bunch of Qian39s and a VE Monk Lite and any other knockoff I can find in that Qian39 shell outside of that HSA-E351 which are sold out everywhere.


----------



## assassin10000

theresanarc said:


> Got my 11.11 purchase today.....the Toneking ROS1 for $19. It was recommended on here earlier when I asked about which earbud has a small shell because I find that more comfortable and it feels like the sound is closer to you than an MX500 shell.
> 
> Unfortunately, while the shell is definitely smaller in diameter to anything I own, it's not a small shell because of a weirdly bulky thick size so it doesn't fit closely into the ear. I actually still found the Qian39 to fit better despite being maybe a mm+ wider but the shell is thinner. In terms of sound, they haven't 'burned-in' but they sound fairly unremarkable to my pleb DAC-less ears. Not bad at all, maybe on the brighter side but definitely not notably better than the sub-$10 buds I own. They do have a good build quality and maybe they will fit better on others who have a larger ear and they'll get that snug fit that I was hoping for with a smaller shell but I personally now am just gonna buy a bunch of Qian39s and a VE Monk Lite and any other knockoff I can find in that Qian39 shell outside of that HSA-E351 which are sold out everywhere.



Is it the smaller diameter or the thiness of the part that 'slot's' into the ear you are looking for?

If thinness, then I'd recommend the ST-10. Diameter maybe the EBX (it's a brighter sound signature though, too bright for me).


For me it's mostly diameter, as the ACG is thick but smaller diameter and is comfortable. I much prefer the PK shell vs a mx500. The only mx500/15.4mm speaker size earbud that I find comfortable enough for extended listening is the ST-10.


----------



## robar (Nov 26, 2019)

theresanarc said:


> Got my 11.11 purchase today.....the Toneking ROS1 for $19. It was recommended on here earlier when I asked about which earbud has a small shell because I find that more comfortable and it feels like the sound is closer to you than an MX500 shell.
> 
> Unfortunately, while the shell is definitely smaller in diameter to anything I own, it's not a small shell because of a weirdly bulky thick size so it doesn't fit closely into the ear. I actually still found the Qian39 to fit better despite being maybe a mm+ wider but the shell is thinner. In terms of sound, they haven't 'burned-in' but they sound fairly unremarkable to my pleb DAC-less ears. Not bad at all, maybe on the brighter side but definitely not notably better than the sub-$10 buds I own. They do have a good build quality and maybe they will fit better on others who have a larger ear and they'll get that snug fit that I was hoping for with a smaller shell but I personally now am just gonna buy a bunch of Qian39s and a VE Monk Lite and any other knockoff I can find in that Qian39 shell outside of that HSA-E351 which are sold out everywhere.


I recommend Qian69 and mx760 shells, have you tried them? They have similar fit to Qian39 in my opinion, should be good for small ears. Qian69 has thin neck which makes it very light in the ear. Mx760 has almost the same shape as Qian39, just a tiny bit bigger and with asymmetric stem. I don't think the plus 1mm diameter would cause problem for you (15.4mm drivers vs 14.8mm), if I understand correctly your main problem is the “neck” shape. Also there is Faaeal Z-sound which I haven't received yet but should be very close to Qian39 size as well, it should have the same diameter too as it's a 14.8mm bud.

edit: I took some pictures quickly


----------



## theresanarc

Mx760 shell looks just as sparse on AE as the Qian39 shell but I see a couple buds that use it so I might order that sometime, seems intriguing. 

It looks very similar to this earbud (DP100 shell?) which has some variants on AE which I assumed was basically just like the Edifier H180 shell: 
https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesal...d=SB_20191126163839&origin=y&SearchText=dp100


----------



## robar (Nov 26, 2019)

theresanarc said:


> Mx760 shell looks just as sparse on AE as the Qian39 shell but I see a couple buds that use it so I might order that sometime, seems intriguing.
> 
> It looks very similar to this earbud (DP100 shell?) which has some variants on AE which I assumed was basically just like the Edifier H180 shell:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesal...d=SB_20191126163839&origin=y&SearchText=dp100


DP100, MX760 and H180 are completely different shells. Many sellers confuse MX760 with DP100, I think the reason is the similar front covers/interchangeable drivers. I actually ordered a DP100 shell for DIY purposes, and plan to move the drivers of my mx760 build to it. When I received it, I'll post a comparison on the shell shapes  Nvertheless, I think Qian69/Knight (very thin necks) and Z-sound shape would suit you more, thinner and more rounded. I think Z sound is your best bet as a budget Q39 shell alternative, I'll shoot side by side pics when I receive it.  My MX760 is from a DIY set on aliexpress, you can find the link in my signature, but you have to buy a cable and solder it separately. The sound is very good, one of the best below 10usd, significantly better than Qian39, however there is a bit sibilance around 4-5khz. (with dense foam it's quite okay) I think there was one stock chinese model with mx760 shell but I haven't tried it and forgot the name (ah, Boarseman K49, seem like it's discontinued). There are also docomo shells, which could work for you, but I have no experience with them.


----------



## tendou (Nov 26, 2019)

citral23 said:


> The BK2 is worth every single penny, at 20€ it has a perfectly fine stock cable, and sounds just superb if you want a general, good at everything earbud. (Movies, acoustic and edm, it does it all great) It sounds warm and friendly to the ears, with great bass extension, texture and quantity, but without being slow, the bass keeps up really well with fast tracks, just the right amount of decay imo (I sometimes wish my tonekings would be more like it in the lows)
> 
> Mids are perfect and highs extend well with good detail and clarity but not extraordinary either, it's an overall laid-back and pleasing sound that suits extended sessions very well.
> 
> ...


Can you tell about the size and fit?


----------



## assassin10000 (Nov 26, 2019)

tendou said:


> Can you tell about the size and fit?



Similar to any mx500 shell but more comfortable with its rounded body, see below:



assassin10000 said:


> Nicehck B40: 16.65-16.70mm
> PT15: 16.35mm (18.3mm wide/thick)
> BK2: 16.8mm (15.35mm wide/thick)
> 
> ...


----------



## Nec3

Hey guys back with another request. 
I loved the nicehck b40's you guys recommended. I also love the apple earpods and fiio em3... If you guys know where I'm getting at. Well, I'm looking for a pair of earbuds that sound good without foam covers. I will be buying a pair for myself and another for a friend who suffers from insomnia and listens to asmr in bed that helps him sleep.


----------



## tendou

assassin10000 said:


> Similar to any mx500 shell but more comfortable with its rounded body, see below:



Mx500 feels too big for me. Even edifier h180 feels big before this.
But among those 4 in your picture it seems the smallest.


----------



## assassin10000 (Nov 26, 2019)

tendou said:


> Mx500 feels too big for me. Even edifier h180 feels big before this.
> But among those 4 in your picture it seems the smallest.



Overall its one of the more comfortable designs. The black color does make it seem smaller than it is. Shape is very similar to the Toneking TOxxx series of buds.

The Smabat M1 pro is similar in the shape that sits in the ear but a smaller 16.1mm diameter like the PK style buds.


----------



## citral23

assassin10000 said:


> Similar to any mx500 shell but more comfortable with its rounded body, see below:



Yes BK2 is on the small side of earbuds, immediately got a good fit and seal.


----------



## EagleWings

*DQSM Turandot - Initial Impressions*
Just wanted to share some quick thoughts on the DQSM Turandot. I’ve been using it with my Hiby R6 and have put a total of 10-12 Hrs on it.

*Hardware and Comfort:*
- Build and finish of the earbud is simply premium
- The shells are quite small but does have a little heft because it’s metal. The plastic Yuin style shell might be more comfortable, but I haven’t had any comfort issues so far. It fits better than the MX500 style buds
- Cable is thin and flexible. No springy feel or cable memory
- Hardware gets a 10/10 from me

*Sound:*
- Using the full foam covers, what I am hearing is a balanced signature, with a slight tilt towards warmth and body
- Overall a pleasant and an enjoyable listen, except for a small lower treble peak, which can make things sound sharp or peaky on a few albums
- Soundstage is large, but not quite on the level of full-size HPs. I’d say it is as big as my LCD-i4’s stage
- Very good overall performance in terms of separation, layering, dynamics and articulation. But I am unable to comment how it compares to other similarly priced earbuds

*Tu-dot vs Monk+:*
The only other earbud I have on me right now is the Monk+. I don't know if it is because of the lack of proper seal or the inherent tuning, but to me, Monk+ lacks bass. Because of the lack of bass and lack of low-end warmth, it sounds shouty in the upper-mids and bright in the treble.

- Compared to the Monk+, Tudot offers better bass in terms of both quantity and quality. So it has better slam and authority and provides sufficient warmth and body
- Tudot is slightly warmer and more bodied in the midrange without the upper-mids being shouty
- Tudot tends to sound peaky on some albums in the treble because of the lower treble peak, whereas the Monk+ is consistently bright across all albums
- When it comes to soundstage and other technical performance, such as separation, layering and articulation, Tudot is noticeably better than the Monk+


----------



## baskingshark

Hi can I check what are the sonic differences between the VE Monk Lite, Monk and Monk plus?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Jsingh4

Anybody how are Tingo TC400


----------



## Jsingh4

Also how are these anyone, available on Chitty's


----------



## fonkepala

baskingshark said:


> Hi can I check what are the sonic differences between the VE Monk Lite, Monk and Monk plus?
> 
> Thanks in advance!



I don't think one can get a hold of the original Monk anymore?

Anyway, I'm not too good at describing sound and all the terms, just a pleb noob...but to me the Monk+ sounds midcentric, spacious soundstage, low end is present but scarce. No piercing treble. Monk Lite sounds brighter, thinner and has even less bass than Monk+. Good details and soundstage, perhaps edges the Monk+ slightly in this regard. Both are good for vocals and instrumentals. Monk Lite benefits greatly from bass boost from DAC/amp/DAP. Hope this helps.


----------



## assassin10000

Nec3 said:


> Hey guys back with another request.
> I loved the nicehck b40's you guys recommended. I also love the apple earpods and fiio em3... If you guys know where I'm getting at. Well, I'm looking for a pair of earbuds that sound good without foam covers. I will be buying a pair for myself and another for a friend who suffers from insomnia and listens to asmr in bed that helps him sleep.



Memt T5 maybe (I haven't heard personally).

PT25 is decent.


----------



## noknok23

Nec3 said:


> Hey guys back with another request.
> I loved the nicehck b40's you guys recommended. I also love the apple earpods and fiio em3... If you guys know where I'm getting at. Well, I'm looking for a pair of earbuds that sound good without foam covers. I will be buying a pair for myself and another for a friend who suffers from insomnia and listens to asmr in bed that helps him sleep.


https://penonaudio.com/shoonth-esep-01bl.html i recc theses. gentle sound with no peaks. I use them naked to listen to the radio or podcasts myself.


----------



## fonkepala

Can someone tell me what are the difference in sound signature between the black Victor & the blue JVC earbud?


----------



## mochill

Kube V1 and kubev1plus , what's the difference


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Nov 27, 2019)

mochill said:


> Kube V1 and kubev1plus , what's the difference



The default Kube V1 has a glimmer signing hope to be modded, it is warm, proper bass quantity and decent treble.
Kube V1 Plus Mod by Willsound: the basic note is the same, warm and fun. The significant improvement comes from in quality of bass which deeper and more accurate. The room is more spacious, relieved and more laid back than the default which very narrow on my ears. The treble and detail is also improved, the sparkle and hi frequency is humble on my ears for long listening.


----------



## robar

Could you tell me more about the Sabia V7? Apart from some recommendations here I haven't found any info about it. No specs, even the impedance is not stated, just some vague and obscure description about it on the homepage, where it's called V8 mistakenly, then there is an apology below that it was mistyped lol. For me who is not familiar with the maker, this looks very sketchy.


----------



## mbwilson111

I received an awesome gift from my husband a couple of days ago


----------



## citral23 (Nov 27, 2019)

Managed to sell some old expensive vaping stuff to have some money for friday, as I can't get enough of the toneking sound atm and greatly apreciate the differences between TO200 and TO400s and think they're both excellent, I'm considering growing the collection with the MrZ Tomahawk, MrZ Ting and TO180. The Ting being the most debatable at 56€ (the TO600 I got for 48€ on 11.11...)

In other news, the hiegi foams came home quickly, as usual with Penon, and yes the full foams are truely worth it on EBX and Shiro-Yuki, tamed the mids just what was needed to make them so much better for me. Their donuts sit on my tonekings, and while it's not night and day with the trig rains they're more dense and help with seal.


----------



## mbwilson111

citral23 said:


> Managed to sell some old expensive vaping stuff to have some money for friday, as I can't get enough of the toneking sound atm and greatly apreciate the differences between TO200 and TO400s and think they're both excellent, I'm considering growing the collection with the MrZ Tomahawk, MrZ Ting and TO150. The Ting being the most debatable at 56€ (the TO600 I got for 48€ on 11.11...)
> 
> In other news, the hiegi foams came home quickly, as usual with Penon, and yes the full foams are truely worth it on EBX and Shiro-Yuki, tamed the mids just what was needed to make them so much better for me. Their donuts sit on my tonekings, and while it's not night and day with the trig rains they're more dense and help with seal.



I have the Ting and I have the Toneking 150 ohm which is listed as TO180 by many sellers.  A bit confusing. I bought mine from NiceHCK for $40.   I love both of them but the form factor is a bit difficult for me to fit because of the thickness.  So even though the Monk shells are wider they fit me more easily.  Diameter is not the whole story.


----------



## citral23

mbwilson111 said:


> I have the Ting and I have the Toneking 150 ohm which is listed as TO180 by many sellers.  A bit confusing. I bought mine from NiceHCK for $40.   I love both of them but the form factor is a bit difficult for me to fit because of the thickness.  So even though the Monk shells are wider they fit me more easily.  Diameter is not the whole story.



Haha you quoted me just before I edited to TO180, confusing indeed. 

I do apreciate the monk form factor too. If I had to wear an earbud while I'm moving, that'd be it, sits much more securely, and thus also makes a better seal without having to fumble. But globally I prefer the premium look and feel of metal.


----------



## baskingshark

citral23 said:


> Managed to sell some old expensive vaping stuff to have some money for friday, as I can't get enough of the toneking sound atm and greatly apreciate the differences between TO200 and TO400s and think they're both excellent, I'm considering growing the collection with the MrZ Tomahawk, MrZ Ting and TO180. The Ting being the most debatable at 56€ (the TO600 I got for 48€ on 11.11...)
> 
> In other news, the hiegi foams came home quickly, as usual with Penon, and yes the full foams are truely worth it on EBX and Shiro-Yuki, tamed the mids just what was needed to make them so much better for me. Their donuts sit on my tonekings, and while it's not night and day with the trig rains they're more dense and help with seal.



Have u recieved your TO600? I'm looking forward to your reviews/impressions on it. Not many reviews on the TO600 on the net, but if there's one toneking bud to get, that is on my wishlist.

I heard Toneking released a IEM version of the Tomahawk, same drivers as the earbud but Archdawg says the tuning of the IEM version is not as good as the earbud version.


----------



## citral23

baskingshark said:


> Have u recieved your TO600? I'm looking forward to your reviews/impressions on it. Not many reviews on the TO600 on the net, but if there's one toneking bud to get, that is on my wishlist.
> 
> I heard Toneking released a IEM version of the Tomahawk, same drivers as the earbud but Archdawg says the tuning of the IEM version is not as good as the earbud version.



Not yet unfortunately, it's departing UK now so won't be in France before next week.

Yeah I've heard so good things about the TO600 it might be wiser to hold on further purchases until I receive it (and the yincrow rw-1000 also). 

I'll make you know about them, have not forgotten to make an additional reply to your PM once I have received everything.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

robar said:


> Could you tell me more about the Sabia V7?





Spoiler



https://www.facebook.com/EliAudioIndonesia/


----------



## ValSilva

mbwilson111 said:


> I received an awesome gift from my husband a couple of days ago


What a gift, wonderful


----------



## Chris674

mbwilson111 said:


> I received an awesome gift from my husband a couple of days ago


Nice! I know there is a difference and I'm not asking you to compare them but I'm curious as to the quality difference between a TOTL bud and something like the EA bud. The EA bud seemed like such a big leap compared to most stuff I own that I decided to not buy as many buds. Not saying that I'm done but Wild Lee himself convinced me to not buy the Sun DICE and get myself a pair of full size headphones. Would something like this convince me to jump back in?


----------



## KevDzn

mbwilson111 said:


> I received an awesome gift from my husband a couple of days ago



Looks even better close up. Too bad its too rich for my blood. You're one lucky lady!


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 27, 2019)

Nec3 said:


> Hey guys back with another request.
> I loved the nicehck b40's you guys recommended. I also love the apple earpods and fiio em3... If you guys know where I'm getting at. Well, I'm looking for a pair of earbuds that sound good without foam covers. I will be buying a pair for myself and another for a friend who suffers from insomnia and listens to asmr in bed that helps him sleep.


that's a difficult one...

There's a lot of things to consider:
Budget?, Comfort size restrictions (will mx500 shell be too big for comfortable sleeping buds?), tuning would have to be dark/warm to compensate for the lack of foams used.

From personal experience, small comfortable shell + soft good quality(non itchy) full foams beats foamless for sleeping. It softens the plastic contact on your ear that would create hotspots after a short while.

There are some reall nice quality velvety feeling foams out there to use and shell wise I'd opt for pk or monk lite/Qian type shells as they are the most comfortable IMO.

If it was me I'd be using pk type earbud mmcx modded to accept a bluetooth cable and using the softest full foams. That would give you a really great sleeping bud experience provided you are streaming from a smartphone which I assume will be the case for your friend if you are on youtube/spotify or whatever. But even a wired pk earbud with soft full foams is great as a sleeping bud. You really dont gain much at all going foamless as the pressure from plastic on your inner ear is much more felt this way.


----------



## oneula

been bouncing between so many buds lately like the FAAEAL Datura Pro, Willsound MK32 black 8 core, Sony 755 mmcx, Willsound MK2 mmcx and my new VE DICE zenll and sun.
But one set that keeps amazing me and I keep coming back to is this silver bodied FENGRU Tingo TC200 32ohm.
I don't know how I found out about these but I'm sure it was from someone on this thread
Anyway they hold their own and have a bigger/wider and brighter presentation than the Moondrop Shiroyuki, the Sony 755 and Willsound MK2

Anyone else try these buds?
Are my ears deceiving me?


----------



## ballog

mbwilson111 said:


> I received an awesome gift from my husband a couple of days ago


@mbwilson111  You meant ...a gift from my AWESOME husband a couple of days ago. Right?


----------



## waynes world

oneula said:


> been bouncing between so many buds lately like the FAAEAL Datura Pro, Willsound MK32 black 8 core, Sony 755 mmcx, Willsound MK2 mmcx and my new VE DICE zenll and sun.
> But one set that keeps amazing me and I keep coming back to is this silver bodied FENGRU Tingo TC200 32ohm.
> I don't know how I found out about these but I'm sure it was from someone on this thread
> Anyway they hold their own and have a bigger/wider and brighter presentation than the Moondrop Shiroyuki, the Sony 755 and Willsound MK2
> ...



I'm sure @wilbur's hype got you hooked on them (like he did to me, also with the sr2's and b40's).

Anyway, the silvers are my sleepytime buds. I listen to them every night, so I suppose I agree with your positive assessment


----------



## waynes world

Alex.Grimm said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/EliAudioIndonesia/



I have a hard time telling them apart from the v6's tbh - they are both great. I think my sabia favorites though are the mmcx v6's with silver cable, or balanced cable.


----------



## Jsingh4

Guys Tingo TC400 are also available they say it's upgrade of TC200


----------



## citral23 (Nov 28, 2019)

First impressions of Moondrop Nameless : a better shiro-yuki, mid-centric too but with better mids, very natural and not slightly grainy like the shiro, much better bass extension with actual sub-bass, and more clarity in treble.

Probably a rare encounter, almost flat sig around 20€? It's cool for vocals, but I wouldn't get this one only, unless one is allergic to bass lol. It's enough to keep the vocal songs going without distracting attention from the mids, but for other genres it's a bit too recessed for me. I actually prefer u-shape for all-rounders, than slightly bumped mids like the nameless. (to be a bit more clear, it's not that the nameless really lacks bass in the absolute, it's that it's overshadowed by the mids)

Overall : good (to great for the price) but reserved to mids lovers, or as an addition to different buds imo.

As usual with Moondrop I'm delected by the packaging (seriously, for 20€, what the hell, this is totally premium) and disapointed to find a soft, and too small, carry pouch, I'd rather have it the other way around.


----------



## mbwilson111

ballog said:


> @mbwilson111  You meant ...a gift from my AWESOME husband a couple of days ago. Right?



Absolutely!  Thank you to my AWESOME husband for this awesome bud.



waynes world said:


> I'm sure @wilbur's hype got you hooked on them (like he did to me, also with the sr2's and b40's).
> 
> Anyway, the silvers are my sleepytime buds. I listen to them every night, so I suppose I agree with your positive assessment



Seems there is more than one wilbur/willber.  @Willber is our bud guy.   Where are you Willber?


----------



## Infoseeker

No datura pro reviews yet?


----------



## Nimweth

Hello folks. I have been evaluating the Smabat M1 Pro earbud and am ready to post a review. However, there is no appropriate page to post the review at the moment. Can someone create one for me? Thanks in advance!


----------



## oneula

Infoseeker said:


> No datura pro reviews yet?



I'm not a reviewer by any sorts so I won't pretend to be
But even as they are really nice sounding earbuds I wouldn't consider them TOTL buds  compared to some of the others I have which are of course cost many times their price.
They are a definite step up from the 64ohm FAAEAL Snow Lotus I've opted over my Monkpluses and used as a caution to the wind daily driver till they shattered when I got up and walked away from my work computer forgetting they were in my ears.
To me they sound about the same as the Willsound MK32 blk 8 core but with a softer and easier to manage cable
But these TC200s come pretty damn close for an off brand I've never heard of before

I've been using them at work switching out with a half dozen or more competing buds to AB test but its a noisy environment
I do know that as of now they will remain in my active rotation lineup and not get thrown into my giant "been there, done that" toy box
Tight now, willsound, FAAEAL, VE, Blur, TY Hi150pros and now the TC200 will be my "keeper" bud brands.


----------



## assassin10000

Nimweth said:


> Hello folks. I have been evaluating the Smabat M1 Pro earbud and am ready to post a review. However, there is no appropriate page to post the review at the moment. Can someone create one for me? Thanks in advance!



Done.


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> Seems there is more than one wilbur/willber.  @Willber is our bud guy.   Where are you Willber?



Thanks for your help! I posted that on my phone, but "@" (which I rely heavily on) was not providing me with the correct "Willber" option lol

p.s. very purdy new buds you got there! I bet they sound as nice as they look


----------



## Narayan23

noknok23 said:


> https://penonaudio.com/shoonth-esep-01bl.html i recc theses. gentle sound with no peaks. *I use them naked *to listen to the radio or podcasts myself.



That´s slightly too much info there noknok


----------



## noknok23

Narayan23 said:


> That´s slightly too much info there noknok


I mean foamless.. 23bro


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> p.s. very purdy new buds you got there! I bet they sound as nice as they look



They do


----------



## Nimweth (Nov 28, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> Done.


Thank you. I will post the review tomorrow. Can you provide a link to that page?


----------



## assassin10000 (Nov 28, 2019)

Nimweth said:


> Thank you. I will post the review tomorrow. Can you provide a link to that page?



Sure, here you go:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-m1-pro.24065/


Just got mine not too long ago. Not sure if I'm gonna make a review though.


----------



## Narayan23

mbwilson111 said:


> They do



Could you rank them vs the rest of your bud collection? Are they in the top 10? Top 5? Top 3?


----------



## mbwilson111

Narayan23 said:


> Could you rank them vs the rest of your bud collection? Are they in the top 10? Top 5? Top 3?



The Turandot is more than a bud to me.  It is a piece of jewelry  So, #1 for beautiy.

For sound, I need much more time.before trying to answer your question. .not only for them but for my others also.  It is quite possible that others including the ones made for me by my husband.sound just as good to me. I appreciate various sound signatures...as long as I can enjoy my music.

I have certainly enjoyed my music during the couple of evenings that I have used the Turendot.

If someone finds a PK shell comfortable and well fitting, likes how these look, has a balanced source and can comfortably afford the cost, I don't think they would be disappointed.

Otherwise we happily  have many wonderful choices available  I enjoy inexpensive buds too.


----------



## Jsingh4

How are **** kp220


----------



## KevDzn

Just received my KP120 from the 11.11 sales. OOTB impressions are positive.
Only listened with the installed black filter with full foams, I'm impressed.
Mid-centric - detailed - airey vocals with clean bass. Great for vocals. A keeper!


----------



## fonkepala

So...what is everyone buying today during the Black Friday sales?


----------



## baskingshark

fonkepala said:


> So...what is everyone buying today during the Black Friday sales?



I better quickly log off and hide somewhere where there's no internet connection.
I've spent too much on audio gear on 11/11, and now another sale comes along just a few days later =(


I promise to be a good boy and get only the BK2 on Black Friday. I promise. Only one purchase.

(unless someone can recommend me a basshead set of earbuds that is midcentric and not harsh on treble).


----------



## wskl

fonkepala said:


> So...what is everyone buying today during the Black Friday sales?



Perhaps nothing, I may skip this Black Friday sale.

But for people who are looking to spend, there are a couple of promo codes that can be used.

Spend $100, get $10 off, promo code "friday10"
Spend $150, get $15 off, promo code "friday15"

Also, Penon Audio have their own sale.
https://penonaudio.com/black-friday-sale

I spotted one good deal, the ISN Audio Rambo is being sold for $45.50 which is cheaper than what is advertised on their Aliexpress store.
https://penonaudio.com/isn-audio-rambo.html


----------



## j4100

Any further BF deals that are actually worth considering? I'm trying to abstain, especially as I have spent a shed load on music (digital, vinyl, gigs), but feeling weak


----------



## baskingshark (Nov 29, 2019)

j4100 said:


> Any further BF deals that are actually worth considering? I'm trying to abstain, especially as I have spent a shed load on music (digital, vinyl, gigs), but feeling weak




I just snagged the BK2 at $22 bucks from AE. With coupons it was about 19+ bucks.
Seen many good reviews about it.

I got the NiceHCK ME80 during 11/11 and I was quite impressed by it. It is now around $12, I got it at $11 on 11/11.
I am new to earbuds, but have been using IEMs for many years and for a earbud the ME80 has quite good subbass extension and quantity, almost comparable to some IEMs. And the mids are quite lush and detailed. A keeper set for me.

I'm still in half a mind about the Kbear Knight, $11ish USD. Anyone got reviews on it?


----------



## XmarX

fonkepala said:


> So...what is everyone buying today during the Black Friday sales?


I'm looking at the HE 150Pro!

Any idea on how it fares against the NiceHCK M80?
According to the reviews, both have good bass!


----------



## wskl

j4100 said:


> Any further BF deals that are actually worth considering? I'm trying to abstain, especially as I have spent a shed load on music (digital, vinyl, gigs), but feeling weak



Feeling weak you say?

There's a really good deal on the DQSM Turandot from the VS Audio Store if you are prepared to spend a bit of money.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000262472866.html

You can get $8 worth of select coupons, grab a $8 store coupon for spending $169, and on top of that apply the "friday15" promo code at checkout, that gives you a $31 discount off the sale price.  I did try it myself to make sure it works and the discounts all stack up.


----------



## fonkepala

baskingshark said:


> I promise to be a good boy and get only the BK2 on Black Friday. I promise. Only one purchase.
> 
> (unless someone can recommend me a basshead set of earbuds that is midcentric and not harsh on treble).



Awww...just the BK2? Are you sure? You know you want to 



wskl said:


> Also, Penon Audio have their own sale.
> https://penonaudio.com/black-friday-sale



Thanks for this link! Although I see some items are cheaper on their AE store.



j4100 said:


> Any further BF deals that are actually worth considering? I'm trying to abstain, especially as I have spent a shed load on music (digital, vinyl, gigs), but feeling weak



Same here, same here. I've spent way more on earbuds and DAC's and DAP's than I expected I would in the past month or so. It's getting out of hand!



baskingshark said:


> I just snagged the BK2 at $22 bucks from AE. With coupons it was about 19+ bucks.



Hmm, how did you get the coupons? I'm on mobile & when I tried checking out some stuff just now, all the coupons I collected couldn't be used  I thought I'd be able to use a couple of the $2 coupons, but no....strange.



XmarX said:


> I'm looking at the HE 150Pro!



I'm going for the HE150 as my first high impedance bud. My wallet couldn't take the HE150Pro :|


----------



## baskingshark

fonkepala said:


> Awww...just the BK2? Are you sure? You know you want to
> 
> Hmm, how did you get the coupons? I'm on mobile & when I tried checking out some stuff just now, all the coupons I collected couldn't be used  I thought I'd be able to use a couple of the $2 coupons, but no....strange.



There are Aliexpress storewide coupons u can exchange coins for (on the app version). The coins can be gotten for playing their app game or doing certain tasks. These coupons are not the lame select coupons that are very common and can only be used in certain stores on certain items. They are a storewide coupon can be used on any product as long as u hit a minimum spend. These storewide coupons are only available on the app at the start of every hour. U need to be quick to exchange the coins, cause within a minute or so, they are all snapped up. I usually miss them cause I'm slow or distracted.


----------



## fonkepala

baskingshark said:


> There are Aliexpress storewide coupons u can exchange coins for (on the app version). The coins can be gotten for playing their app game or doing certain tasks. These coupons are not the lame select coupons that are very common and can only be used in certain stores on certain items. They are a storewide coupon can be used on any product as long as u hit a minimum spend. These storewide coupons are only available on the app at the start of every hour. U need to be quick to exchange the coins, cause within a minute or so, they are all snapped up. I usually miss them cause I'm slow or distracted.



Ah,ok. I'm on desktop. Will hop on to mobile then. Thanks for the info.

BTW, what's the normal selling price for the BK2? From what I'm seeing on AE, the MSRP is $74.99...REALLY?


----------



## tendou

fonkepala said:


> Ah,ok. I'm on desktop. Will hop on to mobile then. Thanks for the info.
> 
> BTW, what's the normal selling price for the BK2? From what I'm seeing on AE, the MSRP is $74.99...REALLY?


You're thinking of bk2? What other earbuds do you have now?


----------



## j4100

fonkepala said:


> Ah,ok. I'm on desktop. Will hop on to mobile then. Thanks for the info.
> 
> BTW, what's the normal selling price for the BK2? From what I'm seeing on AE, the MSRP is $74.99...REALLY?



Some (many?) Sellers artificially quote a high price to make their sale price sound a bargain and often increase the store price leading up to the sale date. We have noticed this for a couple years now.

The Turandot sounds great, but given my experience with earbuds, I doubt I'll really find anything to comprehensively trash my VE ZOE, so will probably avoid expensive buds.


----------



## fonkepala

j4100 said:


> Some (many?) Sellers artificially quote a high price to make their sale price sound a bargain and often increase the store price leading up to the sale date. We have noticed this for a couple years now.



I guess it makes (unethical) sense. Can't blame them. Still, what is the normal MSRP for the BK2, if anyone knows?



tendou said:


> You're thinking of bk2? What other earbuds do you have now?



Yeah, kinda undecided on the BK2. Some posts here gave rave reviews on it. I have a few, not many. None are expensive. Monk Lite 40ohm, Monk+, TY Hi Z 32, SHE3800, blue Vido, Sharp MD, black Docomo, red Vido, JVC Victor, Kube2, recabled black Docomo. The following are on the way: NiceHCK B40, Edifier H180, Qian 69, RY4S UE. Currently, am enamored with the sound I'm getting from the black Docomo. In terms of comfort, I find the SHE3800/H180 shells fit my ears the best & are the most comfortable for me.

In your opinion, will the BK2 sound significantly different/better than the above buds?


----------



## tendou

fonkepala said:


> I guess it makes (unethical) sense. Can't blame them. Still, what is the normal MSRP for the BK2, if anyone knows?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know. I'm new to this game. I only have all colour vido except black. And edifier h101 h180 h185. Returned there black docomo because cable problem. Bought from the same seller you bought from I think.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

NICEHCK EB2 and K's LBB about 17$


Spoiler



https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/K2DRtNz11
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/pFUYe5sjZ


----------



## j4100

Those links are just going to the home page on my phone.

The AliExpress coupons are difficult to get. I tried at 10 and got the "exchange coins for coupon" pop up and clicked ok, but nothing in my coupon folder. Need to try later


----------



## fonkepala

tendou said:


> I don't know. I'm new to this game. I only have all colour vido except black. And edifier h101 h180 h185. Returned there black docomo because cable problem. Bought from the same seller you bought from I think.



PM incoming your way.


----------



## robar

@golov


baskingshark said:


> I just snagged the BK2 at $22 bucks from AE. With coupons it was about 19+ bucks.
> I'm still in half a mind about the Kbear Knight, $11ish USD. Anyone got reviews on it?



Yep I'm in the same shoes, thinking about buying one for 10usd, seems like a great deal. I would like a comfy, sturdy, fixed cable earbud for everyday use, plus it could be a good reference point too. 
If I guess correctly, one of our member posted a review on aliexpress not long ago."Not for bass lovers, but i like it " @golov17 maybe?  I would like something similar to Qian69, just a bit better. Is it similar in your opinion?


----------



## golov17

robar said:


> @golov
> 
> 
> Yep I'm in the same shoes, thinking about buying one for 10usd, seems like a great deal. I would like a comfy, sturdy, fixed cable earbud for everyday use, plus it could be a good reference point too.
> If I guess correctly, one of our member posted a review on aliexpress not long ago."Not for bass lovers, but i like it " @golov17 maybe?  I would like something similar to Qian69, just a bit better. Is it similar in your opinion?


they are still in the process of burning, although female vocals can be piercing on some mastering, but it sounds clear and detailed for my ears, but requires thicker foams and greasy sources, but they are large in diameter for small ears.  Little mid bass but sub bass appears out of nowhere on electronic tracks. Interesting earbuds.


----------



## fonkepala

golov17 said:


> they are still in the process of burning, although female vocals can be piercing on some mastering, but it sounds clear and detailed for my ears, but requires thicker foams and greasy sources, but they are large in diameter for small ears.  Little mid bass but sub bass appears out of nowhere on electronic tracks. Interesting earbuds.



May I know what DAP is that? It looks stunning!


----------



## golov17

fonkepala said:


> May I know what DAP is that? It looks stunning!


Acoustic Research M2


----------



## fonkepala

golov17 said:


> Acoustic Research M2



Ok, that sounds expensive, so I won't google it up


----------



## golov17

fonkepala said:


> Ok, that sounds expensive, so I won't google it up


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/acoustic-research-m2-audiophile-grade-hi-res-portable.754114/


----------



## baskingshark

fonkepala said:


> Ah,ok. I'm on desktop. Will hop on to mobile then. Thanks for the info.
> 
> BTW, what's the normal selling price for the BK2? From what I'm seeing on AE, the MSRP is $74.99...REALLY?



Only 3 shops are selling the BK2 at 22 bucks during Black Friday on AE. The majority are selling it at 55 - 59 bucks, so I think that may be the normal selling price for it.


----------



## golov17

US $22.42  22%OFF | AK REECHO RC ONE Earbud 14mm Dynamic Driver Headset HIFI Metal Bass Earphone Flagship Earbud WithSilver Plated Cable
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bZ3nyl5s


----------



## robar

golov17 said:


> they are still in the process of burning, although female vocals can be piercing on some mastering, but it sounds clear and detailed for my ears, but requires thicker foams and greasy sources, but they are large in diameter for small ears.  Little mid bass but sub bass appears out of nowhere on electronic tracks. Interesting earbuds.


Thanks a lot  Hmm I'm not sure if I want a bass light earbud, I was looking for a warm signature with good midbass, to compensate for the ambient noise while on the go or in an office. That would be the main point for me with this shell design, for sitting still at home in silence, I don't care about the shell so much. May I ask, do you have B40 or Qian25/39/69 to compare the bass levels?


----------



## Nimweth

My review of the Smabat M1 Pro is now available:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-m1-pro.24065/


----------



## golov17 (Nov 29, 2019)

[QUOTE = "robar, post: 15334039, : 517989"][/ QUOTE]
Just got bk2 from Jim NiceHCK


----------



## robar (Nov 29, 2019)

Fun fact: the Z-sound costs 2.75usd again in one of the stores at aliexpress. I haven't received mine yet from 11.11, but for the price of a vido, this might be interesting for people with small ears. Looks like a fun project to mod too, like switching the drivers to some sweet PK-stuff.



golov17 said:


> [QUOTE = "robar, post: 15334039, : 517989"][/ QUOTE]
> Just got bk2 from Jim NiceHCK


Amazing, that's the other one I was thinking about. (Knight, BK2, and maybe HE150(pro) - but I'm not sure my gear would drive those properly, at least Rosemary is too much)  If you have any impressions, I'm very interested! I don't see it in Nicehck store though.


----------



## XmarX (Nov 29, 2019)

Seems like I can't seem to pull the trigger on HE 150PRO!
There are a lot of conflicting reviews and it's messing up my mind!!

So, anyone kind enough to comment on the SQ of that earbud and a better alternative (if any) in the 50-60 USD mark?I
was looking for a flatter (with decent sub-bass) sounding earbud for gaming btw.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Don't ask me why, or how much I had to drink before I bought these.

But I got these *RY Earphone MMCX MX500 Style* Earbuds (from AliExpress).  I asked that they send one white (L) and black (R).  Plus I also asked for a Panda cable.  Sorta a "special" order.

I think they sound very good for the $17USD total I spent.  






--


----------



## Alex.Grimm

XmarX said:


> Seems like I can't seem to pull the trigger on HE 150PRO!
> There are a lot of conflicting reviews and it's messing up my mind!!
> 
> So, anyone kind enough to comment on the SQ of that earbud and a better alternative (if any) in the 50-60 USD mark?I
> was looking for a flatter (with decent sub-bass) sounding earbud for gaming btw.



Try Earbuds Anonymous about 25$ with promocode. But I would recommend more Sabia v7 or Willsound MK2


----------



## Chris674

golov17 said:


> they are still in the process of burning, although female vocals can be piercing on some mastering, but it sounds clear and detailed for my ears, but requires thicker foams and greasy sources, but they are large in diameter for small ears.  Little mid bass but sub bass appears out of nowhere on electronic tracks. Interesting earbuds.


I can confirm everything said here. These are my exact observations. I would add that I think they have a really impressive soundstage. Very wide and deep. I think the B40 is a great comparison for soundstage and imaging but it is not as warm sounding. Very clean and clear. Kind of reminds me of my AKG 701s. Well worth the price


----------



## citral23

The EBX is also like this, very bass light on usual acoustic music but fire some techno tracks and suddenly, huge sub.


----------



## Chris674

robar said:


> Thanks a lot  Hmm I'm not sure if I want a bass light earbud, I was looking for a warm signature with good midbass, to compensate for the ambient noise while on the go or in an office. That would be the main point for me with this shell design, for sitting still at home in silence, I don't care about the shell so much. May I ask, do you have B40 or Qian25/39/69 to compare the bass levels?


The bass on the B40 is a lot warmer. This bud threw me for a loop because, like he said, sometimes it's very bass light on one track and the next it's got a bit of sub rumble. Still, I would classify these as treble focused. Detail and clarity seem to be what these are about. I don't think they're just your average low cost earbud though.


----------



## robar (Nov 29, 2019)

@Chris674 @citral23 Thanks a lot for your thoughts on the Knight  I'll think about it… actually I've just completed the first prototype of my custom DIY build based on Qian69 shell.. and it sounds incredible for my ears, basically much better tonally than anything I've had so far. Deep bass, touch of warmth, smooth natural mids and highs, plus details on the same level as RY4S UE. No sibilance or harshness, everything is where it should be, according to my current taste.  With the fit and comfort of Q69 shell of course plus a 4usd driver, so it sort of knocked out the Knight for me.  Might as well buy better components and upgrade it further. Only problem so far is that it's incredibly easy to drive, can't go further than 1-2 volume steps on my dac, might need higher impedance driver  
What would you call as a reference/well balanced sound in the sub 25usd scene? At this point I would rather need a good benchmark/reference for my diy builds, to evaluate the tuning and to provide with a point of comparison. BK2? Is there anything cheaper with very well balanced sound and good bass extension? Or a biti more expensive that worth saving up to?


----------



## citral23 (Nov 29, 2019)

robar said:


> @Chris674 @citral23 Thanks a lot for your thoughts on the Knight  I'll think about it… actually I've just completed the first prototype of my custom DIY build based on Qian69 shell.. and it sounds incredible for my ears, basically much better tonally than anything I've had so far. Deep bass, touch of warmth, smooth natural mids and highs, plus details on the same level as RY4S UE. No sibilance or harshness, everything is where it should be, according to my current taste.  With the fit and comfort of Q69 shell of course plus a 4usd driver, so it sort of knocked out the Knight for me.  Might as well buy better components and upgrade it further. What would you call as a reference/well balanced sound in the sub 25usd scene? At this point I would rather need a good benchmark/reference for my diy builds, to evaluate the tuning and to provide with a point of comparison. BK2? Is there anything cheaper with very well balanced sound and good bass extension? Or a biti more expensive that worth saving up to?



Mate, you seem to know exactly what you want, and I'm not a shill at all, so let me get this straight again : the BK2 is a great earbud if you come from the IEM world, and want to dip a toe into the earbuds world. You'll get more than adequate amount of sub and mid-bass compared to other offerings in the 20-60$ range, but it's going to be fast and well textured bass, so that will be a change from your average slow bloated crappy cheapo iem bass, and you get the earbuds big soundstage on top. Now if you're already into earbuds and want some very specific technical abilities, it's probably not that one. It does not have amazing resolving power, clarity nor percussion effect that some earbuds have (often to the detriment of bass quantity)


----------



## robar (Nov 29, 2019)

citral23 said:


> Mate, you seem to know exactly what you want, and I'm not a shill at all, so let me get this straight again : the BK2 is a great earbud if you come from the IEM world, and want to dip a toe into the earbuds world. You'll get adequate amount of sub and mid-bass compared to other offerings in the 20-60$ range, but it's going to be fast and well textured bass, so that will be a change from your average slow bloated crappy cheapo iem bass, and you get the earbuds big soundstage on top. Now if you're already into earbuds and want some very specific technical abilities, it's probably not that one. It does not have amazing resolving power, clarity nor percussion effect that some earbuds have (often to the detriment of bass quantity)


Well to be accurate, I know what I definitely NOT want  but need help with what considered to be very good in terms of sound signature by the more experienced folks. I haven't had any higher tier buds so far (above 15usd) and I don't have any fellow earbud lovers here so I can't listen to anything before ordering something, this is my biggest problem. BK2 is definitely on my list! I'm just a bit hesitant about these mmcx buds, mainly quality control and durability of the connections.


----------



## citral23 (Nov 29, 2019)

robar said:


> Well to be accurate, I know what I definitely NOT want  but need help with what considered to be very good in terms of sound signature by the more experienced folks. I haven't had any higher tier buds so far (above 15usd) and I don't have any fellow earbud lovers here so I can't listen to anything before ordering something, this is my biggest problem. BK2 is definitely on my list! I'm just a bit hesitant about these mmcx buds, mainly quality control and durability of the connections.



Mmcx is a non-issue if you don't swap cables tbh. The BK2 stock cable is nothing to write home about but it does the job fine, much better than the T2 cable for example.

If you tell me what you don't want I might be able to help more.


----------



## robar

citral23 said:


> If you tell me what you don't want I might be able to help more.


Got it thanks.  I don't want: weak/passive bass (need depth, impact), bright/thin midrange (I prefer warm/smooth) and any sibilance/harshness in the upper mids. I'm a bit afraid that I would find the BK2 too bright, but that's part of the lottery of course. A frequency response graph would be great if it's next to something I know. I guess you don't have budget earbuds to compare. Apart from this, I don't have sufficient gear to driver 100+ohm buds properly, at least Faael Rosemary 150ohm is unusable for me. My builds are usually very sensitive low impedance units, so I don't really want to invest in amps at this point, my biggest problem is too much volume actually haha.


----------



## Chris674

robar said:


> @Chris674 @citral23 Thanks a lot for your thoughts on the Knight  I'll think about it… actually I've just completed the first prototype of my custom DIY build based on Qian69 shell.. and it sounds incredible for my ears, basically much better tonally than anything I've had so far. Deep bass, touch of warmth, smooth natural mids and highs, plus details on the same level as RY4S UE. No sibilance or harshness, everything is where it should be, according to my current taste.  With the fit and comfort of Q69 shell of course plus a 4usd driver, so it sort of knocked out the Knight for me.  Might as well buy better components and upgrade it further. Only problem so far is that it's incredibly easy to drive, can't go further than 1-2 volume steps on my dac, might need higher impedance driver
> What would you call as a reference/well balanced sound in the sub 25usd scene? At this point I would rather need a good benchmark/reference for my diy builds, to evaluate the tuning and to provide with a point of comparison. BK2? Is there anything cheaper with very well balanced sound and good bass extension? Or a biti more expensive that worth saving up to?


Honestly, the Earbuds Anonymous bud almost ended my search. I told my wife that I was done buying after I heard it. There is a lot of REALLY warm bass. Even though it somewhat dominates the sound signature it doesn't touch the mids at all. They are extremely clear and sit perfectly notched into the bass. It's seriously like the bass wraps around the mids. The treble just floats above. It does somewhat roll off but it's a very good match with the other ranges. I don't own any super high end buds so I don't know how it sits against TOTL buds but I own the Blons, all the Tin Hifi stuff, Sennheiser HD650's, Grados and AKG 701s and these are right up with all my favorites.


----------



## citral23

robar said:


> Got it thanks.  I don't want: weak/passive bass (need depth, impact), bright/thin midrange (I prefer warm/smooth) and any sibilance/harshness in the upper mids. I'm a bit afraid that I would find the BK2 too bright, but that's part of the lottery of course. A frequency response graph would be great if it's next to something I know. I guess you don't have budget earbuds to compare. Apart from this, I don't have sufficient gear to driver 100+ohm buds properly, at least Faael Rosemary 150ohm is unusable for me. My builds are usually very sensitive low impedance units, so I don't really want to invest in amps at this point, my biggest problem is too much volume actually haha.



You sound like a client for the TO400s but I'm not sure why you're afraid of amping. A zishan z3 drives it perfectly fine at 35€, so does a nx1s for about the same price, and any decent dac will do, too.


----------



## Nec3

seanc6441 said:


> that's a difficult one...
> 
> There's a lot of things to consider:
> Budget?, Comfort size restrictions (will mx500 shell be too big for comfortable sleeping buds?), tuning would have to be dark/warm to compensate for the lack of foams used.
> ...



Hi, I know there were more people that replied but I just wanted to use the time I have to say thanks to everyone.
No foams, as my friend said he got annoyed of all the foams he lost back when he used those type of earbuds. I ended up getting the ESEP-01BL that @noknok23 suggested.
Until next time


----------



## Chris674

citral23 said:


> Mate, you seem to know exactly what you want, and I'm not a shill at all, so let me get this straight again : the BK2 is a great earbud if you come from the IEM world, and want to dip a toe into the earbuds world. You'll get more than adequate amount of sub and mid-bass compared to other offerings in the 20-60$ range, but it's going to be fast and well textured bass, so that will be a change from your average slow bloated crappy cheapo iem bass, and you get the earbuds big soundstage on top. Now if you're already into earbuds and want some very specific technical abilities, it's probably not that one. It does not have amazing resolving power, clarity nor percussion effect that some earbuds have (often to the detriment of bass quantity)


You may have just convinced me to give these a try.  Doesn't sound like anything that I've got already.


----------



## robar (Nov 29, 2019)

Chris674 said:


> Honestly, the Earbuds Anonymous bud almost ended my search. I told my wife that I was done buying after I heard it. There is a lot of REALLY warm bass. Even though it somewhat dominates the sound signature it doesn't touch the mids at all. They are extremely clear and sit perfectly notched into the bass. It's seriously like the bass wraps around the mids. The treble just floats above. It does somewhat roll off but it's a very good match with the other ranges. I don't own any super high end buds so I don't know how it sits against TOTL buds but I own the Blons, all the Tin Hifi stuff, Sennheiser HD650's, Grados and AKG 701s and these are right up with all my favorites.


Sounds great, I'll consider getting one. 



citral23 said:


> You sound like a client for the TO400s but I'm not sure why you're afraid of amping. A zishan z3 drives it perfectly fine at 35€, so does a nx1s for about the same price, and any decent dac will do, too.


My fear is that these amps you mentioned have high output impedance, so they'll be useless for the sensitive 32ohm stuff. I'd rather buy a good low impedance bud for the price of zishan, than buy something I don't really need or only useful for one single bud. My puny little SMSL X4 and even my smartphone is getting too loud for some of my builds even at 10-20% volume. I'm actually planning to buy Fiio BTR3 or BTRK1 instead, for a laptop dac/occasional bluetooth recevier.


----------



## citral23

Chris674 said:


> Honestly, the Earbuds Anonymous bud almost ended my search. I told my wife that I was done buying after I heard it. There is a lot of REALLY warm bass. Even though it somewhat dominates the sound signature it doesn't touch the mids at all. They are extremely clear and sit perfectly notched into the bass. It's seriously like the bass wraps around the mids. The treble just floats above. It does somewhat roll off but it's a very good match with the other ranges. I don't own any super high end buds so I don't know how it sits against TOTL buds but I own the Blons, all the Tin Hifi stuff, Sennheiser HD650's, Grados and AKG 701s and these are right up with all my favorites.



Maybe you just need a 9038d in fact, got news on the E1DA discord that it's finally coming (with dsd 256 and 32/384), you'd be able to power absolutely everything you have without amps. I know I'll get one.


----------



## Mhog55

I think the bk2 is an excellent bud for the price. It doesn't really do anything super great, but it doesn't seem to do anything poorly either. I actually use mine quite a bit. As for the mmcx connections, I don't think constantly removing cables is a good thing, but I'm also not willing to purchase multiple balanced cables either


----------



## anvu1992

Thinking between the Rambo, to600, and smabat m1 pro for this Black Friday sale. Could anyone give me some advices on these buds? (or any other suggestions) 

I'm currently using the he150 pro and I enjoy its clarity and soundstage. I listen to classical and jazz a lot. I would love to try all of these but my budget allows one (~$50 USD)

Thanks a lot, this is my first post but I have been following this thread for a while


----------



## citral23

I hope to receive the to600 before the end of the AE sale on 4/12 and tell u what


----------



## robar (Nov 29, 2019)

SHOONTH ESEP-01BL (what a name lol) compared to EA bud anyone? Based on reviews they seem to have quite similar tunings (right up my alley), the shells are also on the same level (comfy generic plastic), price is also similar. (21-25usd) The Shoonth's cable seems very stiff and heavy though. I'm also interested in these versus BK2 and he150pro


----------



## KevDzn

BloodyPenguin said:


> Don't ask me why, or how much I had to drink before I bought these.



Haha...looks like an earbud with two personality/sound signature.


----------



## assassin10000

robar said:


> What would you call as a reference/well balanced sound in the sub 25usd scene? At this point I would rather need a good benchmark/reference for my diy builds, to evaluate the tuning and to provide with a point of comparison. BK2? Is there anything cheaper with very well balanced sound and good bass extension? Or a biti more expensive that worth saving up to?



I wouldn't call the BK2 a referenced/well balanced sound. More a slightly mid-centric bud with some roll off in both the lows and highs.

I haven't heard it, but maybe the Willsound MK2, or his newer MK32.




citral23 said:


> ... It does not have amazing resolving power, clarity nor percussion effect that some earbuds have (often to the detriment of bass quantity)



Agreed, it's a good bud but not the most resolving/detailed and doesn't have the greatest bass.   




robar said:


> Well to be accurate, I know what I definitely NOT want  but need help with what considered to be very good in terms of sound signature by the more experienced folks. I haven't had any higher tier buds so far (above 15usd) and I don't have any fellow earbud lovers here so I can't listen to anything before ordering something, this is my biggest problem. BK2 is definitely on my list! I'm just a bit hesitant about these mmcx buds, mainly quality control and durability of the connections.



The MMCX on these buds, or at least the pair I had, was very tight. Which is a good thing for longevity but I would recommend using a tool for removal of cables. The connections are a non-issue unless you are disconnecting the cables constantly, some people have reported others doing so every time they use their IEM's... 

But if you find a cable you like and never remove it (unless damaged), I don't see there being any issues.




citral23 said:


> Mmcx is a non-issue if you don't swap cables tbh. The BK2 stock cable is nothing to write home about but it does the job fine, much better than the T2 cable for example.



Ditto.




robar said:


> Got it thanks.  I don't want: weak/passive bass (need depth, impact), bright/thin midrange (I prefer warm/smooth) and any sibilance/harshness in the upper mids. I'm a bit afraid that I would find the BK2 too bright, but that's part of the lottery of course. A frequency response graph would be great if it's next to something I know. I guess you don't have budget earbuds to compare. Apart from this, I don't have sufficient gear to driver 100+ohm buds properly, at least Faael Rosemary 150ohm is unusable for me. My builds are usually very sensitive low impedance units, so I don't really want to invest in amps at this point, my biggest problem is too much volume actually haha.



I wouldn't call the BK2 bright at all. I did find the EBX a bit too bright/forward (great detail tho), so I wouldn't recommend it to you.


I'm not sure if you can stretch your budget to the 50-60 (on sale) range, but if so:

ST-10 has excellent subwoofer/IEM like bass with reference like (neutral) mids/highs. It doesn't have a warm sound but it's not bright/thin/harsh either.

The M1-pro is also good and is slightly warmer sounding. Good bass, but not quite the depth of the ST-10.





Chris674 said:


> Honestly, the Earbuds Anonymous bud almost ended my search. I told my wife that I was done buying after I heard it. There is a lot of REALLY warm bass. Even though it somewhat dominates the sound signature it doesn't touch the mids at all. They are extremely clear and sit perfectly notched into the bass. It's seriously like the bass wraps around the mids. The treble just floats above. It does somewhat roll off but it's a very good match with the other ranges. I don't own any super high end buds so I don't know how it sits against TOTL buds but I own the Blons, all the Tin Hifi stuff, Sennheiser HD650's, Grados and AKG 701s and these are right up with all my favorites.





Chris674 said:


> You may have just convinced me to give these a try.  Doesn't sound like anything that I've got already.



Given your description of the EA bud, I think it may be better than the BK2. But I haven't heard the EA bud, so can't say for certain. Especially since we all hear differently  .




anvu1992 said:


> Thinking between the Rambo, to600, and smabat m1 pro for this Black Friday sale. Could anyone give me some advices on these buds? (or any other suggestions)
> 
> I'm currently using the he150 pro and I enjoy its clarity and soundstage. I listen to classical and jazz a lot. I would love to try all of these but my budget allows one (~$50 USD)
> 
> Thanks a lot, this is my first post but I have been following this thread for a while



What is your source(s)?

TO600 will require a good source given it's around 600 ohms. I haven't heard it or the ISN Rambo unfortunately, so I can't compare them. Maybe @HungryPanda can compare the TO600 and M1 Pro, IIRC he has both.

The M1 Pro is a good bud and fairly easy to drive, just finished burning mine in (I like to get around 100hrs of burn in on most).


----------



## anvu1992

assassin10000 said:


> What is your source(s)?
> 
> TO600 will require a good source given it's around 600 ohms. I haven't heard it or the ISN Rambo unfortunately, so I can't compare them. Maybe @HungryPanda can compare the TO600 and M1 Pro, IIRC he has both.
> 
> The M1 Pro is a good bud and fairly easy to drive, just finished burning mine in (I like to get around 100hrs of burn in on most).



My mobile source is Earstudio ES100 and my desktop is ifi Zen dac -> Liquid Spark amp. Would the ES100 be enough to drive to600?


----------



## wskl

golov17 said:


> they are still in the process of burning, although female vocals can be piercing on some mastering, but it sounds clear and detailed for my ears, but requires thicker foams and greasy sources, but they are large in diameter for small ears.  Little mid bass but sub bass appears out of nowhere on electronic tracks. Interesting earbuds.



You are right about the large size of these, I wore them for 10 minutes and my ears are already starting to get sore.  Not a good fit for me unfortunately.


----------



## fonkepala

citral23 said:


> Mate, you seem to know exactly what you want, and I'm not a shill at all, so let me get this straight again : the BK2 is a great earbud if you come from the IEM world, and want to dip a toe into the earbuds world. You'll get more than adequate amount of sub and mid-bass compared to other offerings in the 20-60$ range, but it's going to be fast and well textured bass, so that will be a change from your average slow bloated crappy cheapo iem bass, and you get the earbuds big soundstage on top. Now if you're already into earbuds and want some very specific technical abilities, it's probably not that one. It does not have amazing resolving power, clarity nor percussion effect that some earbuds have (often to the detriment of bass quantity)



Based on this alone, I caved in & bought the BK2  If I keep quiet & isolate myself in a still silent room, I can just about hear my wallet sobbing...



Chris674 said:


> Honestly, the Earbuds Anonymous bud almost ended my search. I told my wife that I was done buying after I heard it. There is a lot of REALLY warm bass. Even though it somewhat dominates the sound signature it doesn't touch the mids at all. They are extremely clear and sit perfectly notched into the bass. It's seriously like the bass wraps around the mids. The treble just floats above. It does somewhat roll off but it's a very good match with the other ranges. I don't own any super high end buds so I don't know how it sits against TOTL buds but I own the Blons, all the Tin Hifi stuff, Sennheiser HD650's, Grados and AKG 701s and these are right up with all my favorites.



And based on the strengths of this post, I think I need to stop buying anymore earbuds so I'm going to buy the EA buds!


----------



## ruffandruff

Hello, Can anybody compare yincrow x6 vs qian39

I have the monks but I find to be extremely bass light. I cant decide between these two, both are said to have nice bass. I tried ty hi z 32ohm, although it is better in terms of bass, its recessed mids really annoy me and also sound sibilant to me compared to the monk+.

Thank you


----------



## Mhog55

assassin10000 said:


> I wouldn't call the BK2 a referenced/well balanced sound. More a slightly mid-centric bud with some roll off in both the lows and highs.
> 
> I haven't heard it, but maybe the Willsound MK2, or his newer MK32.
> 
> ...


What is this mmcx disconnect tool you speak of?


----------



## assassin10000 (Nov 30, 2019)

anvu1992 said:


> My mobile source is Earstudio ES100 and my desktop is ifi Zen dac -> Liquid Spark amp. Would the ES100 be enough to drive to600?



I don't know for sure. Perhaps if using the balanced out would be enough? Maybe check with the ES100 thread or someone here with a TO600 could answer it.



Mhog55 said:


> What is this mmcx disconnect tool you speak of?



It's an automotive pin terminal tool. Got them from AliExpress in the 36 piece one.
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000001635091.html

The small one works in thinner openings and the larger in wider ones. These are the two you want.




Actually there is one more that works but it's prongs are so thin they bend easily. If there is a very small opening these may be the best bet.


----------



## robar (Nov 30, 2019)

@assassin10000 Thanks for your thoughts on the topic, I'll consider your recommendations.  I think I'll postpone the earbud purchase for next year, might save up to a willsound or something in that price range.



ruffandruff said:


> Hello, Can anybody compare yincrow x6 vs qian39
> 
> I have the monks but I find to be extremely bass light. I cant decide between these two, both are said to have nice bass. I tried ty hi z 32ohm, although it is better in terms of bass, its recessed mids really annoy me and also sound sibilant to me compared to the monk+.
> 
> Thank you


I'm not familiar with the yincrow x6 but it's said to be very similar to vido. For about 7.5usd you can buy Qian39 (4.7usd) + Red vido (2.8usd) for example, still cheaper than X6. In my experience the bassiest budget earbud is the new white vido, which you can buy for about 2usd in smaller stores, but the red vido is said to be more balanced with better mids while still having good bass. (yes there are different versions of vido based on color and cable)

Others might be able to suggest other options as well. There is TC200 and RY4S for example. I wasn't a fan of tc200 but it has good bass and above average clarity with decent mids (upper mid dominant but smooth) for the price and seems quite popular here. (less than 5usd) None of these are harsh or sibilant so these are safe choices. Qian39 has good bass but not as deep as bigger shell buds, and the highs are rolled off early. I really like it as sleeping buds, for me the small shell is the selling point of these. If you have a 2usd off per 10usd aliexpress coupon, you can buy 3 of the above for about ten bucks, or alternatively buy something around 10usd discounted to 8usd like Qian69 or many others.


----------



## ruffandruff

robar said:


> @assassin10000 Thanks for your thoughts on the topic, I'll consider your recommendations.  I think I'll postpone the earbud purchase for next year, might save up to a willsound or something in that price range.
> 
> 
> I'm not familiar with the yincrow x6 but it's said to be very similar to vido. For about 7.5usd you can buy Qian39 (4.7usd) + Red vido (2.8usd) for example, still cheaper than X6. In my experience the bassiest budget earbud is the new white vido, which you can buy for about 2usd in smaller stores, but the red vido is said to be more balanced with better mids while still having good bass. (yes there are different versions of vido based on color and cable)
> ...



Thanks a lot man...that cleared it for me....going for the qian39+red vido. Also interested in TC200 but couln't find it in aliexpress. Can you confirm if this is its name FENGRU DIY Tingo TC200. And  if its more to ask how does RY4S sound compared to monk+
Again thank you


----------



## robar

ruffandruff said:


> Thanks a lot man...that cleared it for me....going for the qian39+red vido. Also interested in TC200 but couln't find it in aliexpress. Can you confirm if this is its name FENGRU DIY Tingo TC200. And  if its more to ask how does RY4S sound compared to monk+
> Again thank you


You're welcome! I might try red vido as well, I only have a couple of whites and a blue.
Yep, these are the Fengru Silver/TC200
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32687542028.html


----------



## citral23

TO600 : holy **** this thing is thick as hell, it helps with seal but it feels like getting raped by king-kong for my poor ears when I insert them :/

Out of the box, straight from dsd pro there is a lot of bass bleed, mids are a bit shouty and treble lacks clarity, sounds muddy like the TO200 before burn-in (but with a lot more bass, could be the seal tho)

Amped by nx3s that I received at the same time, bass is much more controlled and it helps clarity a bit, but it's not nearly as good as the TO400s. 

Let's hope it improves with burn-in and I get along with the thickness, can't recommend it as it is, will report again after a few days.


----------



## oneula

ruffandruff said:


> Thanks a lot man...that cleared it for me....going for the qian39+red vido. Also interested in TC200 but couln't find it in aliexpress. Can you confirm if this is its name FENGRU DIY Tingo TC200. And  if its more to ask how does RY4S sound compared to monk+
> Again thank you



This is the one I ought from the CK Lewis Store;

FENGRU DIY Tingo TC200 Earbud Earphone HiFi Noise Cancelling EarBuds Flat Head earphone Pk Mx985 Hifi Bass Sound Earbuds ($4.74)

1. Product Name: FENGRU DIY Tingo TC200 HiFi Bass In-ear earphone
2. Brand: FENGRU
3. Model: TC200
4. Earphone type: In-ear
5. Impedance: 32Ω
6. Earphone sensitivity: 103dB/mW
7. Frequency range: 20-20000Hz
8. Interface: 3.5mm Gilded
9. Plug Type: Straight Plug
10.Cable Length: 1.2m±3cm
11.Color: As Picture
12.Whether with mic: No
13.Driver unit: 1DD driver unit



 

BTW
I just picked up the gold TC400 at to compare (seems like something Mrs Panda would like)

DIY Tingo TC400 Earbud Earphone HiFi Bass Sound Earbuds Flat Head Earphone Pk MX985 EMX500S TC200 Upgrade Version $11.09

1. Product Name: FENGRU DIY Tingo TC400 HiFi Bass In-ear earphone
2. Brand: FENGRU
3. Model: TC400
4. Earphone type: In-ear
5. Impedance: 32Ω
6. Earphone sensitivity: 105dB/mW
7. Frequency range: 20-20000Hz
8. Interface: 3.5mm Gilded
9. Plug Type: Straight Plug
10.Cable Length: 1.2m±3cm
11.Color: Gold/Rose red
12.Whether with mic: No
13.Driver unit: 15.4mm


----------



## citral23

Having received the TO600, I could complete my BF addiction basket :

The cable being better than expected, it will go to my T2, so no need for a new one for that iem.

The TO600 will get a **** 6 core, and the TO180 I'm ordering will get one too.

I bought the tomahawk in black without zircon as well.

I'm done for this year, and the best suited earbud for classical music regardless of price, will be gifted to my father for Christmas. I need to do more A/B but so far I suspect it will be the moondrop nameless.


----------



## ruffandruff

oneula said:


> This is the one I ought from the CK Lewis Store;
> 
> FENGRU DIY Tingo TC200 Earbud Earphone HiFi Noise Cancelling EarBuds Flat Head earphone Pk Mx985 Hifi Bass Sound Earbuds ($4.74)
> 
> ...


thnx bro....i see that u own monk+ can u compare it to the TC200


----------



## ruffandruff

citral23 said:


> TO600 : holy **** this thing is thick as hell, it helps with seal but it feels like getting raped by king-kong for my poor ears when I insert them :/
> 
> Out of the box, straight from dsd pro there is a lot of bass bleed, mids are a bit shouty and treble lacks clarity, sounds muddy like the TO200 before burn-in (but with a lot more bass, could be the seal tho)
> 
> ...


Are TO400s more comfortable(smaller) than these? Do u think TO400s can be driven by lg V40?


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 30, 2019)

citral23 said:


> TO600 : holy **** this thing is thick as hell, it helps with seal but it feels like getting raped by king-kong for my poor ears when I insert them :/
> 
> Out of the box, straight from dsd pro there is a lot of bass bleed, mids are a bit shouty and treble lacks clarity, sounds muddy like the TO200 before burn-in (but with a lot more bass, could be the seal tho)
> 
> ...


TO400s is more neutral and technically better (except that peak around 8-10k which can make some treble sound a bit harsh) but the TO400s has a disappointing bass response, even the To600 bass response doesn't extend as I'd hoped for but it does have much more quantity around 50-200hz (albeit too much bleeds into the mids). I didn't find the to600 shoutiness too bad with full foams, but it is a slightly aggressive upper mid and lower treble range, the fuller low mids help alleviate that though.

I really don't think the to600 is a bad earbud, it's just got a few flaws that make it difficult to recommend for a specific genre or preference. Maybe the tuning could've been done a little differently to relax the upper frequencies or tighten the bass.


----------



## citral23 (Nov 30, 2019)

ruffandruff said:


> Are TO400s more comfortable(smaller) than these? Do u think TO400s can be driven by lg V40?



Yes, they are thinner, more comfortable for the average ear, and sound great out of the box with super extension both on bass and treble. I might revise my opinion on the TO600, but for now, the TO400s would be my recommendation for the "best" mmcx toneking, fit, cable, and sound wise.

Mind you my recommendation is not necessarily what I personally enjoy the most, but what I think would suit most people the best.

I have a personal sweet spot for the TO200, but it doesn't have great bass extension, but for jazz I don't care


----------



## citral23 (Nov 30, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> TO400s is more neutral and technically better (except that peak around 8-10k which can make some treble sound a bit harsh) but the TO400s has a disappointing bass response, even the To600 bass response doesn't extend as I'd hoped for but it does have much more quantity around 50-200hz (albeit too much bleeds into the mids). I didn't find the to600 shoutiness too bad with full foams, but it is a slightly aggressive upper mid and lower treble range, the fuller low mids help alleviate that though.
> 
> I really don't think the to600 is a bad earbud, it's just got a few flaws that make it difficult to recommend for a specific genre or preference. Maybe the tuning could've been done a little differently to relax the upper frequencies or tighten the bass.



For now I wholeheartedly agree, except I find the TO400s bass quantity adequate. When I feel it's lacking I turn the bass boost on my topping amps, and invariably turn it off after a few minutes, it doesn't really need it (the EBX does)


----------



## seanc6441 (Nov 30, 2019)

citral23 said:


> For now I wholeheartedly agree, except I find the TO400s bass quantity adequate. When I feel it's lacking I turn the bass boost on my topping amps, and invariably turn it off after a few minutes, it doesn't really need it (the EBX does)


I found my unit couldn't present almost any sub bass below 75hz well. It really just dropped off a cliff after that. The to600 also has a lot of roll off in the sub bass but it's less noticeable because it has a strong mid bass emphasis.

I'm definitely picky when it comes to bass response but I found the to400s couldnt even take too much EQ in the bass, i think the driver just bottoms out in the deep bass department.

The mids and highs are quiet accurate though, sort of like a shozy bk but with a cleaner midrange and possibly more neutral overall. Doesn't reach the refinement and accuracy of something like the Qurart Ti7 mids as it could be considered a little dull (not quiet as realistic tonally as ti7 but its still impressive nonetheless.

Even the shozy bk has a much better bass response though, it's got more impact and extension.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have been listening to my TO600's for the last few days, playing from Foobar 2000 via Sabaj D5 dac/amp and the bass is excellent if you get the fitment correct. I been listening to a lot of Ambient, IDM and Progressive Rock.


----------



## theresanarc

ruffandruff said:


> Thanks a lot man...that cleared it for me....going for the qian39+red vido. Also interested in TC200 but couln't find it in aliexpress. Can you confirm if this is its name FENGRU DIY Tingo TC200. And  if its more to ask how does RY4S sound compared to monk+
> Again thank you



I think that the $5ish Qian39, $5 Vido, and $10ish Edifier H180 (or NICEHCK B40 if you want a PK shell) are a really good earbud starting point for $20 for three different shells. 

Btw do any of you own the Toneking ROS1? How would you describe the sound signature? I dunno if they need 'burn-in' but it feels like they're overly bright and lacking in bass and I say this as someone who prefers a clearer sound signature and no overpowering bass.


----------



## mbwilson111

theresanarc said:


> Btw do any of you own the Toneking ROS1? How would you describe the sound signature? I dunno if they need 'burn-in' but it feels like they're overly bright and lacking in bass and I say this as someone who prefers a clearer sound signature and no overpowering bass.



I have the ROS1.  I think I need to spend time figuring out how to get a good seal.  Something about the size and shape is making that difficult for me.  Maybe I should try donut foams on top of regular foams.


----------



## theresanarc (Nov 30, 2019)

^ That makes it too wide though which defeats the reason why I bought it (small shell). Also I've never personally gotten a 'seal' from earbuds which is fine, they aren't IEMs. Though some tend to sit more securely while others including the ROS1 are a bit looser on any movement (which is maybe what you mean).

Edit: Okay I took the time to put a pair of the included donut foams on top of the regular foams (what a pain in the ass). It somehow does help with the fit and makes them a bit closer to neutral than tinny/bright sounding. But still....meh.


----------



## citral23 (Dec 1, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> I have been listening to my TO600's for the last few days, playing from Foobar 2000 via Sabaj D5 dac/amp and the bass is excellent if you get the fitment correct. I been listening to a lot of Ambient, IDM and Progressive Rock.



It is, switched to other genres (rock, hard-rock, hip-hop) for some hours, and I ended up forgetting what I had in my ears and enjoying the music.

It's just a much warmer and cozzy sounding earbud than what I expected, while I sort of expected an analytical, tight monster, instead I get a warm bass with some bleed and super polite treble, still surprised. Works well for classic hard-rock.

PS it seems to be doing the TO200 thing, and open up, from muddy and muffled to clear and airy with burn-in. Relief.


----------



## oneula

ruffandruff said:


> thnx bro....i see that u own monk+ can u compare it to the TC200



haven't used my monks in a while
they have a heavy "V" very lively with up front mids
The TC200s are smoother and although they cover the range they don't over emphasize anything like the monks do
But the monks are a "fun" sounding bud
I guess that why people like them aside from their cost


----------



## ruffandruff

citral23 said:


> Yes, they are thinner, more comfortable for the average ear, and sound great out of the box with super extension both on bass and treble. I might revise my opinion on the TO600, but for now, the TO400s would be my recommendation for the "best" mmcx toneking, fit, cable, and sound wise.
> 
> Mind you my recommendation is not necessarily what I personally enjoy the most, but what I think would suit most people the best.
> 
> I have a personal sweet spot for the TO200, but it doesn't have great bass extension, but for jazz I don't care


Thankx bro


----------



## ruffandruff

theresanarc said:


> I think that the $5ish Qian39, $5 Vido, and $10ish Edifier H180 (or NICEHCK B40 if you want a PK shell) are a really good earbud starting point for $20 for three different shells.
> 
> Btw do any of you own the Toneking ROS1? How would you describe the sound signature? I dunno if they need 'burn-in' but it feels like they're overly bright and lacking in bass and I say this as someone who prefers a clearer sound signature and no overpowering bass.


No, I don't own the Toneking ROS1...thnx for the input


----------



## ruffandruff

oneula said:


> haven't used my monks in a while
> they have a heavy "V" very lively with up front mids
> The TC200s are smoother and although they cover the range they don't over emphasize anything like the monks do
> But the monks are a "fun" sounding bud
> I guess that why people like them aside from their cost


thnx for the comparsion...really appreciate it.
I heard that the toneking TO400s are better(smoother,relaxed) than EBX and also have a wide soundstage. I love soundstage.
If its not too much to ask how do you think they compare against the masya and read that masya are prone to sibilance. Soundstage?bass?sibilance (vs TO400s)?
thank u


----------



## fonkepala

oneula said:


> haven't used my monks in a while
> they have a heavy "V" very lively with up front mids
> The TC200s are smoother and although they cover the range they don't over emphasize anything like the monks do
> But the monks are a "fun" sounding bud
> I guess that why people like them aside from their cost



I don't know, it might just be my ears but I wouldn't classify the Monk+ as being 'fun' or having a heavily V-shaped sound signature. To me, they sound more mid-centric, flatter. Still good though.

The Vidos are 'fun'.


----------



## rkw

HungryPanda said:


> I'm in heaven now


Me too. I finally received my 11.11 order.

I'm very impressed. I listen mostly to classical music, and my measure of success is how realistically a product can reproduce the sound of live, unamplified acoustic instruments. My other high end buds are Rose Mojito and Blox YIN. The Turandot easily comes out on top, and also by far the most comfortable.


----------



## cocolinho

@HungryPanda @rkw which foam do you guys use ?


----------



## citral23

ruffandruff said:


> thnx for the comparsion...really appreciate it.
> I heard that the toneking TO400s are better(smoother,relaxed) than EBX and also have a wide soundstage. I love soundstage.
> If its not too much to ask how do you think they compare against the masya and read that masya are prone to sibilance. Soundstage?bass?sibilance (vs TO400s)?
> thank u



Correct for TO400s vs EBX, the EBX has an almost "forced" clarity to my ears, the toneking are no slouch in detail and clarity, but sound more natural, effortless in their presentation.

If you're willing to wait, I'll have the TO180 in 2 to 3 weeks to compare.


----------



## HungryPanda

cocolinho said:


> @HungryPanda @rkw which foam do you guys use ?


 Trig rain ones  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32696147273.html


----------



## ruffandruff

citral23 said:


> Correct for TO400s vs EBX, the EBX has an almost "forced" clarity to my ears, the toneking are no slouch in detail and clarity, but sound more natural, effortless in their presentation.
> 
> If you're willing to wait, I'll have the TO180 in 2 to 3 weeks to compare.


Exactly what I wanted to know, I dont like overly bright forced details, I tend to like warm yet detailed sound with a hint of treble emphasis.

Yes I will wait for your TO180 to arrive...Also can u compare the soundstages of TO400s and EBX. Which is bigger(or wider) in presentation


----------



## citral23

ruffandruff said:


> Exactly what I wanted to know, I dont like overly bright forced details, I tend to like warm yet detailed sound with a hint of treble emphasis.
> 
> Yes I will wait for your TO180 to arrive...Also can u compare the soundstages of TO400s and EBX. Which is bigger(or wider) in presentation



My TO400s is at work so I'll have to bring them back home to compare, if I have not replied by Wednesday please pm me a reminder.


----------



## ruffandruff

citral23 said:


> My TO400s is at work so I'll have to bring them back home to compare, if I have not replied by Wednesday please pm me a reminder.


Thnx a lot man...I will


----------



## spacemanspliff (Dec 1, 2019)

I can't find the BK2 on ae? Any help is appreciated.


----------



## HungryPanda

spacemanspliff said:


> I can't find the BK2 on ae? Any help is appreciated.


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32957710736.html


----------



## rkw

cocolinho said:


> @HungryPanda @rkw which foam do you guys use ?


I put on the ones that came with the Turandot. I haven't had a chance to experiment with different foams.


----------



## toear

I'm trying to resist the urge but... If you were to pick one... 

Smabat m1 pro

Or 

Toneking TO400

...

?

(You should all be answering , 'noooo! Save your money!!')

I'm looking for soundstage, clarity, bass extension (decent amount, neutral at least)... I have the Samara, EB2, B40, me80, ... 

Thanks!


Thanks!


----------



## seanc6441

toear said:


> I'm trying to resist the urge but... If you were to pick one...
> 
> Smabat m1 pro
> 
> ...


Not sure about the M1 but the To400 doesn't have anywhere near neutral bass on my unit. Rolls off pretty substantially almost like the Ourart TI7 but with less mid bass warmth. Hopefully my unit was the exception but I think its just not an earbud with a good bass response to match its impressive neutral mids and highs.


----------



## ironbrewer

toear said:


> (You should all be answering , 'noooo! Save your money!!')



You do realize that at least 99% of the people on this forum are addicted and are enablers!!


----------



## mbwilson111

ironbrewer said:


> You do realize that at least 99% of the people on this forum are addicted and are enablers!!



Are you implying that none of this is normal?


----------



## Con Par (Dec 1, 2019)

Guys the *KBEAR Knight N52 *whorth the money? How about the bass response?
I already have both kube v1 and v2 and Toneking TO600.

*also the same question for the ***** BK2*.


----------



## citral23 (Dec 1, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> Not sure about the M1 but the To400 doesn't have anywhere near neutral bass on my unit. Rolls off pretty substantially almost like the Ourart TI7 but with less mid bass warmth. Hopefully my unit was the exception but I think its just not an earbud with a good bass response to match its impressive neutral mids and highs.



Strange, while the TO400s doesn't have a huge amount of mid-bass (which I like as there's no bleed into mids) I find it to have great extension with good rumble down low, could be units variation definitely. I will see if I can find a frequency test tomorrow and tell you how low mine goes.


----------



## groucho69

[QUOTE="(You should all be answering , 'noooo! Save your money!!')[/QUOTE]


----------



## toear

seanc6441 said:


> Not sure about the M1 but the To400 doesn't have anywhere near neutral bass on my unit. Rolls off pretty substantially almost like the Ourart TI7 but with less mid bass warmth. Hopefully my unit was the exception but I think its just not an earbud with a good bass response to match its impressive neutral mids and highs.




Thanks for the clarification. I think I'm barking up the wrong tree...


----------



## toear

... such jokers! lol! It's good to see such support around here... Lol! Earbuds Round-Up rules!




ironbrewer said:


> You do realize that at least 99% of the people on this forum are addicted and are enablers!!





mbwilson111 said:


> Are you implying that none of this is normal?





groucho69 said:


> [QUOTE="(You should all be answering , 'noooo! Save your money!!')



[/QUOTE]


----------



## assassin10000

toear said:


> I'm trying to resist the urge but... If you were to pick one...
> 
> Smabat m1 pro
> 
> ...




Save your money...












To buy the M1 pro. Bass becomes audible around 36hz when I checked on a frequency test.


----------



## toear

Thank you!




assassin10000 said:


> Save your money...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you


----------



## KevDzn

toear said:


> I'm trying to resist the urge but... If you were to pick one...
> 
> Smabat m1 pro
> 
> ...



Don't wanna sound like an enabler, maybe Smabat ST10 (big bro of m1 pro)? IMHO the to400 really benefits if its swap with a copper cable instead of the stock (copper/silver plated).

Hanging around here makes me normal.


----------



## KevDzn

Con Par said:


> Guys the *KBEAR Knight N52 *whorth the money? How about the bass response?
> I already have both kube v1 and v2 and Toneking TO600.



Still waiting for my KBear Knight from 11.11 sale. The kube1 is really a phenomenal earbud. Bought the orange and black ones first and ended up getting the blue, purple and another orange also as spares.


----------



## citral23

Sub can be heard from 35hz on the TO400s, it's quite rolled-off until 50Hz and sounds plenty at 70hz


----------



## mbwilson111

So many excellent buds in my little collection...and today I am listening to my music with an oldie but goodie... attached to my desktop dac/amp.   My "newest" Sony Ericsson HPM-64 recabled yesterday by my husband @HungryPanda.    

I have several colors with various cables.  I need  new group shot... to include this one, plus I have gifted a couple of my others.  Also I need a group shot of my many colors of Kubev1s

The only bud I use without foams.  They just disappear into my ears.  I can listen for hours and hours.

They do require a recable though...unless you are using them with certain old Sony phones


 For some reason there is no writing on the shells of the silver and also the red that we have... even though these definitely have the same drivers.







This one is the first one that he ever recabled.. and so began the DIY buds.  Bought a bunch of these pink ones for a couple of pounds each for him to practice on.   A few drivers were killed during the process.  This was the first successful pair.  I was listening it couple of weeks ago.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I've got a bunch of my holiday presents ready to give out to my family and friends. 

The (Earbuds Anonymous Earbud or EA Earbud).


----------



## mbwilson111

BloodyPenguin said:


> I've got a bunch of my holiday presents ready to give out to my family and friends.
> 
> The (Earbuds Anonymous Earbud or EA Earbud).




Wow.  I hope they all like music  Such nice earbuds.


----------



## groucho69

BloodyPenguin said:


> I've got a bunch of my holiday presents ready to give out to my family and friends.
> 
> The (Earbuds Anonymous Earbud or EA Earbud).



Still one of my favorites. And wonderful value!


----------



## citral23 (Dec 2, 2019)

ruffandruff said:


> Thnx a lot man...I will



Hi again, clearly the EBX soundstage is quite a bit wider, and slightly deeper. The TO400s is very intimate and puts you in a small room with the musicians, while keeping very good instruments separation, the EBX sounds more like in a small concert hall, if only because there's more detail and clarity so reverbs are much more present.

I received the Yincrow RW-1000 and it is even more spacious than the EBX. My early impressions is that it sounds very hifi, with even greater extension in the highs, but a bit less bass. It's otherwise more similar than different, with a mellow, round sub, and not much of mid-bass slam. No bleed into mids. Sounds maybe a bit dry, which I actually like.

Mids may be more natural, which could avoid the fatigue I get with the EBX on some material, but it's a bit early to say, I'll take them at work tomorrow to see if I can cope with the bright signature for extended sessions.

I will sell my TO600, too much mid-bass bleed into mids for me, can't win everytime at the chifi roulette.


----------



## ruffandruff (Dec 2, 2019)

citral23 said:


> Hi again, clearly the EBX soundstage is quite a bit wider, and slightly deeper. The TO400s is very intimate and puts you in a small room with the musicians, while keeping very good instruments separation, the EBX sounds more like in a small concert hall, if only because there's more detail and clarity so reverbs are much more present.
> 
> I received the Yincrow RW-1000 and it is even more spacious than the EBX. My early impressions is that it sounds very hifi, with even greater extension in the highs, but a bit less bass. It's otherwise more similar than different, with a mellow, round sub, and not much of mid-bass slam. No bleed into mids. Sounds maybe a bit dry, which I actually like.
> 
> ...



thnx man for taking time for the comparison....very clear one.
I really enjoy a big sound stage but i also understand that I can't stand sibilance so I guess the EBX is not for me. Please do update your impressions on Yincrow RW-1000 if its less fatiguing.


----------



## citral23 (Dec 3, 2019)

ruffandruff said:


> thnx man for taking time for the comparison....very clear one.
> I really enjoy a big sound stage but i also understand that I can't stand sibilance so I guess the EBX is not for me. Please do update your impressions on Yincrow RW-1000 if its less fatiguing.



If you can't stand sibilance, and listen to music prone to it, it's really best to avoid the EBX and RW-1000 honestly. It's a very clear difference between the TO400s or BK2 on one side, and the EBX and RW-1000 on the other side, on Jeff Buckley's Grace album for example.

The EBX and RW-1000 pierce my ears on "shhh" syllabs. I can only use those for classical, or mellow jazz albums, movies are great too with the big soundstage, for 1-2 hours sessions, it's golden in this context but I can't stand them on bright albums for extended time.

I never have encountered a situation like I feel agressed and want to turn the volume down or throw the BK2 or TO400s away otoh, even on harsh sounding music.


----------



## kingdixon

Well after receiving my second willsound order from rholupat.

i just want to confirm that the mmcx is the way to go at least for me, i have tried mk2 with normal cable, with vjc old cable (red) and with vjc new black cable ( it is very annoyingly stiff ), 

yet the mmcx version with my cables holds its ground with better clarity tightness and soundstage, also much lower distortion if any at higher volumes, i got like 8 or 9 different willsounds, mk2 mmcx was the way to go.

i tried mk32 with normal and black vjc cables, and still mk2 mmcx stays ahead. (actually the mk32 sounded kinda warmer and veiled compared to mk2 with campfire pure silver cable)

now the cables i tried with mk2 are not that cheap, but at least you will have the option, also i didn't think it would make such a noticeable difference.

anybody know if its easy to mod these shells with mmcx connectors ?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

kingdixon said:


> yet the mmcx version with my cables holds its ground with better clarity tightness and soundstage, also much lower distortion if any at higher volumes, i got like 8 or 9 different willsounds, mk2 mmcx was the way to go.


Which mmcx cable was the best for you?  can you leave a link and cable name?


----------



## kingdixon (Dec 3, 2019)

Alex.Grimm said:


> Which mmcx cable was the best for you?  can you leave a link and cable name?



well, i haven't compared cables on it,

i had 2 mk2 mmcx, the old one i listened to with electro acoustic hybrid cable copper+silver priced around 170$ from aliexpress, and the new one i grabbed the nearest cable which was alo pure silver litz that comes with atlas priced at 249$ (they were priced like 70% lower on blackfriday), both are relatively high in price.

i will try them with some cheaper options and tell you my findings.


----------



## robar

kingdixon said:


> well, i haven't compared cables on it,
> 
> i had 2 mk2 mmcx, the old one i listened to with electro acoustic hybrid cable copper+silver priced around 170$ from aliexpress, and the new one i grabbed the nearest cable which was alo pure silver litz that comes with atlas priced at 249$ (they were priced like 70% lower on blackfriday), both are relatively high in price.


Why do you use such expensive cables with a 40usd earbud? I'm honestly interested, as these cables are in the price range of Turandot and other high end buds.


----------



## kingdixon

robar said:


> Why do you use such expensive cables with a 40usd earbud? I'm honestly interested, as these cables are in the price range of Turandot and other high end buds.



Hahahaha well i didn't buy them specially for the willsound and since i already have them, why not use them ?

the pure silver came with the atlas but it was single ended, so i grabbed the electro acousti one in 4.4 balanced for the atlas also to use with the wm1a.

but i will check them with more budget cables from nicehck to see if they are still better than the fixed cable versions and i think this will be true.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

EBX isn't sibilant. I am treble sensitive and have never heard sibilance or harness from them at all. Female vocals are ridiculous good. They are bright, but done right. And of course foams man. Its all about the foams. I use Heigi donuts because I need to boost a bit more lowend while keeping them mids and detailed highs the way they are. I listen to a lot of Jpop and female vocals with these. Also use them for Punk, Metal and Rock.


----------



## citral23

BadReligionPunk said:


> EBX isn't sibilant. I am treble sensitive and have never heard sibilance or harness from them at all. Female vocals are ridiculous good. They are bright, but done right. And of course foams man. Its all about the foams. I use Heigi donuts because I need to boost a bit more lowend while keeping them mids and detailed highs the way they are. I listen to a lot of Jpop and female vocals with these. Also use them for Punk, Metal and Rock.



My intent wasn't to say the EBX is sibilant in nature, sorry if it wasn't clear. Just that if there is sibilant matierial, it will pass through, whereas the TO400s for example, will tame it.

I'm listening to Mozart's requiem on the RW-1000 atm and boy, is it intense. Extremely emotional and detailed, with 0 harshness on this superbly recorded KV 626. 

For this kind of earbuds, you need the right kind of records imo, and it's annoying me when I have to unplug them and take something else because Miles Davis's trumpet is piercing my ears... 

It's not the best all-rounders for me, but in some special moments with the right material it's divine, to each his own.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

BadReligionPunk said:


> EBX isn't sibilant. I am treble sensitive and have never heard sibilance or harness from them at all. Female vocals are ridiculous good. They are bright, but done right. And of course foams man. Its all about the foams. I use Heigi donuts because I need to boost a bit more lowend while keeping them mids and detailed highs the way they are. I listen to a lot of Jpop and female vocals with these. Also use them for Punk, Metal and Rock.



Do they have a good sub bass?


----------



## DBaldock9

Alex.Grimm said:


> Do they have a good sub bass?



Yes.  The EBX has good low Bass impact.


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> Why do you use such expensive cables with a 40usd earbud? I'm honestly interested, as these cables are in the price range of Turandot and other high end buds.


You probably need to subscribe to *THIS* thread, then you will be (like me) a cable believer in the next few weeks


----------



## robar (Dec 3, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> You probably need to subscribe to *THIS* thread, then you will be (like me) a cable believer in the next few weeks


No no I don't want to be sucked into the cable realm haha  Luckily I don't have mmcx or other interchangeable gear so most of this stuff is irrelevant to me. And in fixed cable setups I can't use thick cables anyway because they wouldn't fit in the shell lol. I haven't seen any fancier cables that are made for soldering by the way, which is a little bit puzzling to me. I'm not sure if I've seen anything worthwhile above 10usd for that purpose, maybe I wasn't looking hard enough. But if I buy an mmcx bud in the future, my wallet proof idea is that I'll stick to that 8usd TRN black/white one from nicehck and call it a day haha



kingdixon said:


> Hahahaha well i didn't buy them specially for the willsound and since i already have them, why not use them ?
> the pure silver came with the atlas but it was single ended, so i grabbed the electro acousti one in 4.4 balanced for the atlas also to use with the wm1a.
> but i will check them with more budget cables from nicehck to see if they are still better than the fixed cable versions and i think this will be true.


Thanks, haha yes I understand now


----------



## Alex.Grimm

DBaldock9 said:


> Yes.  The EBX has good low Bass impact.



It's true? Eb2 has 90-95% of the sound quality of the EBX for less than 1/2 the price


----------



## NStef

So, I was going to order a Rose Masya and started reading about this DQSM Turandot.  This search could probably go on forever.

Does the Turandot need a headphone amp?  Thanks.


----------



## EagleWings

NStef said:


> So, I was going to order a Rose Masya and started reading about this DQSM Turandot.  This search could probably go on forever.
> 
> Does the Turandot need a headphone amp?  Thanks.



Not necessarily. I’m using it with my HibyR6 and it works great. Other positives about the Turandot:
- Large soundstage
- Balanced signature (leaning a bit on the warm side)
- Very comfortable to wear
- Very flexible cable
- Seemingly strong build and very well made overall


----------



## NStef

Thanks for the response EagleWings. 

I just need to make a choice and go for it.  Like my wife told me before we got married, s*** or get off the pot.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Dec 3, 2019)

NStef said:


> So, I was going to order a Rose Masya and started reading about this DQSM Turandot.  This search could probably go on forever.
> 
> Does the Turandot need a headphone amp?  Thanks.



What sources do you have available?  If you don't have any balanced sources you would need to order the Turandot with the adapter.    

If you plan to use a phone I would guess...and I am guessing as I have never used a phone as my source... that you might need to add a portable amp.  I have used my Turandot with my desktop dap/amo while I was burning it in (with an adapter because my desktop system is not balanced)..   Now I am using it with my DAPs that  have balanced output.

I also have the Masya and love that also.  Before you ask,  I am not prepared at this time to try to compare the two.  Too many other things are arriving now from the sales.


----------



## NStef

mbwilson111 said:


> What sources do you have available?  If you don't have any balanced sources you would need to order the Turandot with the adapter.
> 
> If you plan to use a phone I would guess...and I am guessing as I have never used a phone as my source... that you might need to add a portable amp.  I have used my with my desktop dap/amo while I was burning it in (with an adapter because my desktop system is not balanced)..   Now I am using it with my DAPs that  have balanced output.
> 
> I also have the Masya and love that also.  Before you ask,  I am not prepared at this time to try to compare the two.  Too many other things are arriving now from the sales.



Thanks for the response as well.  At first I would use an earbud to listen to digital files on my laptop or maybe even MP3 player.  If that works I would get some kind of amp and used them to listen to CDs and LPs.  I need to scale down my music space but I don't think I can get rid of my stereo totally.  This all makes sense in my head.


----------



## ruffandruff

citral23 said:


> If you can't stand sibilance, and listen to music prone to it, it's really best to avoid the EBX and RW-1000 honestly. It's a very clear difference between the TO400s or BK2 on one side, and the EBX and RW-1000 on the other side, on Jeff Buckley's Grace album for example.
> 
> The EBX and RW-1000 pierce my ears on "shhh" syllabs. I can only use those for classical, or mellow jazz albums, movies are great too with the big soundstage, for 1-2 hours sessions, it's golden in this context but I can't stand them on bright albums for extended time.
> 
> I never have encountered a situation like I feel agressed and want to turn the volume down or throw the BK2 or TO400s away otoh, even on harsh sounding music.



Thats great to hear about the TO400s, which is kinda the sound I am looking for. May be at somepoint I may opt for RW-1000 for movies as you said but not right now. 
As you said in an other comment to BadReligonPunk, I find the Ty hiz 32ohm (L-adapter) very sibilant and harsh on some recordings and I have to lower the volume alot but they have 0 harshness on some. But these have BASS which is why I still prefer them over the monk+. 

thnx man


----------



## waynes world

subwoof3r said:


> You probably need to subscribe to *THIS* thread, then you will be (like me) a cable believer in the next few weeks



Thanks for the warning - that thread is now on my blocked list


----------



## bjk8kds (Dec 3, 2019)

robar said:


> Could you tell me more about the Sabia V7? Apart from some recommendations here I haven't found any info about it. No specs, even the impedance is not stated, just some vague and obscure description about it on the homepage, where it's called V8 mistakenly, then there is an apology below that it was mistyped lol. For me who is not familiar with the maker, this looks very sketchy.


Driver: 14.8 mm
cable: 4N OFC
Jack: 3.5mm L gold plated
FR: 20-20KHz
SP/L: 112 db



Jsingh4 said:


> How are **** kp220


Is it kp120 with "airpod" design or very different driver?



KevDzn said:


> Just received my KP120 from the 11.11 sales. OOTB impressions are positive.
> Only listened with the installed black filter with full foams, I'm impressed.
> Mid-centric - detailed - airey vocals with clean bass. Great for vocals. A keeper!


Mine will arrived in a few days (maybe tomorrow).. cant wait how it sound, since no one had it in my locals. is it better than qian 69 in term sound quality?
Is it still recommended for allrounder with black filter? you say with black filter its already mid-centric? how about red filter, will it reduce low & high even more?
btw, what actual price for kp120? in aliex its priced around $20-30 but i found $13 in my local lazada (shipped from china of course), hope its not a "different" product.


----------



## robar (Dec 3, 2019)

bjk8kds said:


> Driver: 14.8 mm
> cable: 4N OFC
> Jack: 3.5mm L gold plated
> FR: 20-20KHz
> SP/L: 112 d.


Thanks, is it 32ohm? That's the most important info for me. It's strange that it uses 14.8mm in an mx500 shell..


By the way I'm just working on a custom DIY build based on the Qian69 shell. It has awesome acoustic potential, at least the same as mx500 but I think it's even better than that in some ways. (soundstage, fit, overall smooth balanced nature) I put in an entry level DIY driver in it from aliexpress and it sounds incredible now, tiers above my other buds. This is the point when I realized how average are the stock drivers in Qian69 and how much potential is wasted. I can't really understand why the engineers didn't make a Pro version with better drivers and upgraded cable, it could be so simple to make and would easily sell for at least 3-4x the price of the Q69. I'll upgrade my build further with better drivers and cables and write further impressions then. Modding the Qian69 is challenging though, the stock speakers fell apart right when I opened it up, then I encountered several difficulties with the cable holding clamps, had to drill small holes to become larger etc. so it's a bit more advanced project. But the result totally worth it : ) If you have dead Qian69s please don't put them into the trash, just post them to me instead lol


----------



## seanc6441

NStef said:


> Thanks for the response as well.  At first I would use an earbud to listen to digital files on my laptop or maybe even MP3 player.  If that works I would get some kind of amp and used them to listen to CDs and LPs.  I need to scale down my music space but I don't think I can get rid of my stereo totally.  This all makes sense in my head.


You wont need an amp for 99% of these earbuds, whether you want an amp because you hear a difference or want to have extra headroom in the power department is up to you.

I can power my 600ohm TO600 off of an iphone 6s. As long as you phone isn't crap for audio and really weak on the amp it would work fine for now.


----------



## citral23 (Dec 3, 2019)

ruffandruff said:


> Thats great to hear about the TO400s, which is kinda the sound I am looking for. May be at somepoint I may opt for RW-1000 for movies as you said but not right now.
> As you said in an other comment to BadReligonPunk, I find the Ty hiz 32ohm (L-adapter) very sibilant and harsh on some recordings and I have to lower the volume alot but they have 0 harshness on some. But these have BASS which is why I still prefer them over the monk+.
> 
> thnx man



Keep in mind, the TO400s ist still much more audiophile tuned than the average earphone, it's very nice for acoustic music but might leave you a bit hungry for hip-hop, EDM and such bass wise.

In which case my go-to recommendation is still the BK2, which sounds less "audiophile" maybe, but still very nice for acoustic music.

Yet to come : ry4s ue, snow lotus 2.0, tomahawk and TO180


----------



## robar

citral23 said:


> Keep in mind, the TO400s ist still much more audiophile tuned than the average earphone, it's very nice for acoustic music but might leave you a bit hungry for hip-hop, EDM and such bass wise.
> 
> In which case my go-to recommendation is still the BK2, which sounds less "audiophile" maybe, but still very nice for acoustic music.
> 
> Yet to come : ry4s ue, snow lotus 2.0 and TO180


I'll be interested in you ry4s ue vs BK2 comparison.  My second bud was ry4s ue and while I really liked the energy and details of it, I found the vocals/timbre quite thin and not very natural, the overall response leans toward the upper half. The bass is ok, clean and tight with decent depth, just around the minimum bearable quantity for me haha. Highs were a bit sharper than I can tolerate for more than a half an hour. But I have slight fit/seal issues with mx500 shells like most people, I hear more optimal sound when I push them into my ears with my fingers but that's not really a solution haha. (this is why I prefer Qian69 shell, it fixes this issue completely for me) While the blue qian25 is a lower tier earbud with less performance, I much prefer its balance compared to ry4s ue, it basically tilts the signature back to horizontal. (quite neutral and balanced but less aggressive and adds back the missing low mid / bass)


----------



## citral23 (Dec 3, 2019)

robar said:


> I'll be interested in you ry4s ue vs BK2 comparison.  My second bud was ry4s ue and while I really liked the energy and details of it, I found the vocals/timbre quite thin and not very natural, the overall response leans toward the upper half. The bass is ok, clean and tight with decent depth, just around the minimum bearable quantity for me haha. Highs were a bit sharper than I can tolerate for more than a half an hour. But I have slight fit/seal issues with mx500 shells like most people, I hear more optimal sound when I push them into my ears with my fingers but that's not really a solution haha. (this is why I prefer Qian69 shell, it fixes this issue completely for me) While the blue qian25 is a lower tier earbud with less performance, I much prefer its balance compared to ry4s ue, it basically tilts the signature back to horizontal. (quite neutral and balanced but less aggressive and adds back the missing low mid / bass)



Good description, I'll make sure to report on the ry4s so we can see if we hear the same way 

I'm not expecting much, just fishing around to see if I can find a 7-10€ earbud that would sound good for small gifts and otherwise "I don't care if I lose it"

The shiro-yuki is not very versatile, I'll see what the others sound like


----------



## robar

citral23 said:


> Good description, I'll make sure to report on the ry4s so we can see if we hear the same way


Thanks that would be great! I think the ry4s ue is an impressive earbud for the price, I think you will appreciate it. In my opinion they added too dense tuning foam in the shell, adding about 2-3dB in the whole bass/low mid area helps a lot for restoring the balance for me. I retuned it in a similar fashion and it sounded a lot more natural for my ears at least. Of course sample variation, different sources etc. can be factor too. Nowadays I use its drivers as a guinea pig for various experiments/projects haha.


----------



## NStef

seanc6441 thanks for the answer to my DQSM Turandot  question.  Folks on this forum have been very kind to respond to my babble.


----------



## citral23

Bah I thought I was done for the year, but I'm getting another TO200 on sale at 35€ to have a spare, can't get enough of this sound, I want it til the end of my life.


----------



## Mhog55

Still haven't received my Smabat M1 Pro. It's been 3 weeks. Lookin for a little advice. I've requested to both cancel and refund the order on separate occasions. Amazon rep told me that they could do neither, because they were still waiting for the seller to ship the item. I've also emailed the seller twice, and no replies.
This was an Prime item, and reading the reviews, everyone else received their buds on the scheduled delivery date. So, obviously something fell through the cracks, though it's odd the seller won't respond. I suppose it may be time to get a little more direct with Amazon customer service. They told me to message the seller. Shouldn't they be the ones contacting the seller? It's fairly obvious these buds aren't coming, so I don't understand why I can't get a refund.


----------



## assassin10000

Mhog55 said:


> Still haven't received my Smabat M1 Pro. It's been 3 weeks. Lookin for a little advice. I've requested to both cancel and refund the order on separate occasions. Amazon rep told me that they could do neither, because they were still waiting for the seller to ship the item. I've also emailed the seller twice, and no replies.
> This was an Prime item, and reading the reviews, everyone else received their buds on the scheduled delivery date. So, obviously something fell through the cracks, though it's odd the seller won't respond. I suppose it may be time to get a little more direct with Amazon customer service. They told me to message the seller. Shouldn't they be the ones contacting the seller? It's fairly obvious these buds aren't coming, so I don't understand why I can't get a refund.



That's weird. If it hasn't shipped they should cancel. I'd follow up and push Amazon a bit.


----------



## groucho69

Mhog55 said:


> Still haven't received my Smabat M1 Pro. It's been 3 weeks. Lookin for a little advice. I've requested to both cancel and refund the order on separate occasions. Amazon rep told me that they could do neither, because they were still waiting for the seller to ship the item. I've also emailed the seller twice, and no replies.
> This was an Prime item, and reading the reviews, everyone else received their buds on the scheduled delivery date. So, obviously something fell through the cracks, though it's odd the seller won't respond. I suppose it may be time to get a little more direct with Amazon customer service. They told me to message the seller. Shouldn't they be the ones contacting the seller? It's fairly obvious these buds aren't coming, so I don't understand why I can't get a refund.



If it is a Marketplace deal then you are pretty much on your own.


----------



## bjk8kds

robar said:


> Thanks, is it 32ohm? That's the most important info for me. It's strange that it uses 14.8mm in an mx500 shell..
> 
> ...


Yes, its written on the box:


----------



## groucho69

deleted


----------



## Mhog55

groucho69 said:


> If it is a Marketplace deal then you are pretty much on your own.


Huh


----------



## groucho69

Mhog55 said:


> Huh



The only time I've been told to deal directly with the seller is when it is a Marketplace deal. And CS refused to get involved.


----------



## Mhog55

groucho69 said:


> The only time I've been told to deal directly with the seller is when it is a Marketplace deal. And CS refused to get involved.


It wasn't. As I stated, it was an Amazon Prime item. I just got off the phone, and a refund will soon be issued. The rep said that other's are also not receiving their buds. I wouldn't recommend ordering through them.


----------



## KevDzn

@bjk8kds

Hi, bought my kp120 for usd19.99 at Ali but so far price has dropped to usd19 for the black Friday sales. So I'm not surprise if it can even be cheaper on your local lazada site. Well, if it's not as advertise you can always dispute and return it.

The kp120 strenghts is in its mids and sounds great on vocals, acoustics, classic rock, blues and etc. Yeah, the red filter further emphasis on the mids (still usable for me) but the blue filter are a no go for me (sounds kinda weird).

From the seller's site: BLACK-bass, rock/ RED-pop, country, folk/ BLUE-female vocals, instrumental.

I don't have the qian69 so no comments. For an all rounder bud on a budget I would recommend the b40, Me80, toneking tp16, or vidos red.


----------



## waynes world

Gonna mix it up with my new Mixx's (care of some wonderful folk across the pond)....



 

Holy smokes! My usual routine is to give new buds a quick listen without foams, and then quickly go "nope, these need foams". But not so fast with these puppies! I'm listening to the gray variants without foams, and I must say that I'm kinda blown away with how good they sound. Whoa!


----------



## KevDzn (Dec 3, 2019)

KP120 UPDATE.

Was fiddling the KP120 with foams and I must say its sounds GREAT with donuts foam over full foam (donut foam + full foam).
Bass is full, clean and there's even some sub bass and yet its still mid centric.
Initially I was using it with only full foams and it did sound a tad bit bright.


----------



## bjk8kds (Dec 3, 2019)

@KevDzn
Thanks for your reply, I'm already had sabia v7, it's tp16 rival at the same price range (qian 69 too) all have its pros cons, but qian 69 is the best SQ in the price range (for all rounder) based in the review of my domestic forum, if i not mistaken.
I hope kp120 had better SQ than qian 69 price range, maybe I'm too greedy, haha..

Update: just read your update review, it's great! I'm always use donut foam, haha.. It's still preserve bass and also better mid-high details, not muffled.


----------



## robar

I personally enjoy the stock Qian69 more than B40. B40 is smoother with more neutral mids/highs but for me it lacks energy, emotion and bass extension (it's not just sound signature, it's more of a dynamics thing). It's good for walking around or listening to midcentric music, but I just don't feel engaged in anything with it. The Qian69 is far from perfect of course but I would pick it anytime over my particular pair of B40s. Overall I can see them on the same level with different attitudes towards music. That's just my personal opinion,


----------



## ruffandruff

citral23 said:


> Keep in mind, the TO400s ist still much more audiophile tuned than the average earphone, it's very nice for acoustic music but might leave you a bit hungry for hip-hop, EDM and such bass wise.
> 
> In which case my go-to recommendation is still the BK2, which sounds less "audiophile" maybe, but still very nice for acoustic music.
> 
> Yet to come : ry4s ue, snow lotus 2.0, tomahawk and TO180


Got your point about TO400s

BK2? which one? Is there a second version of Shozy BK


----------



## wskl

ruffandruff said:


> Got your point about TO400s
> 
> BK2? which one? Is there a second version of Shozy BK



**** BK2


----------



## KevDzn (Dec 3, 2019)

Recently all this talk on the bk2 has made me itch. Have to refrain from scratching the itch for a bit. Too many, too little time. My KB Knight and EA earbud just hit the local post office.


----------



## Mhog55

How long does it typically take US residents to receive packages from Penon Audio? I just ordered the bgvp dx5.
Also, what is the general consensus on the fit of the Toneking to series.. More specifically, the 200s?


----------



## subwoof3r

Mhog55 said:


> How long does it typically take US residents to receive packages from Penon Audio? I just ordered the bgvp dx5


If it can help, it took me just a week to receive into France, probably the fastest experience from a while (for an order from China). Great experience from Penon Audio.


----------



## HungryPanda

Mhog55 said:


> How long does it typically take US residents to receive packages from Penon Audio? I just ordered the bgvp dx5.
> Also, what is the general consensus on the fit of the Toneking to series.. More specifically, the 200s?


 Penon ship really fast


----------



## davjac84

citral23 said:


> Hi again, clearly the EBX soundstage is quite a bit wider, and slightly deeper. The TO400s is very intimate and puts you in a small room with the musicians, while keeping very good instruments separation, the EBX sounds more like in a small concert hall, if only because there's more detail and clarity so reverbs are much more present.
> 
> I received the Yincrow RW-1000 and it is even more spacious than the EBX. My early impressions is that it sounds very hifi, with even greater extension in the highs, but a bit less bass. It's otherwise more similar than different, with a mellow, round sub, and not much of mid-bass slam. No bleed into mids. Sounds maybe a bit dry, which I actually like.
> 
> ...



Are they properly burned in yet?
I found the bass for TO600 to "bloaty" too when my pair arrived. But after burn in (real or brain I don't know ) they felt much better First time I found a difference with burn-in.
Still not as "buttery-clean" sounding as my TO400s, still not shure which buds I prefer, but leaning towards TO600, the extra bass can be nice for some songs. 
But the TO400s does not lack bass IMHO like some say, more and better than my Ourart ACG, MONK.


----------



## groucho69

HungryPanda said:


> Penon ship really fast



I find the delays are more likely after Penon ships, especially at this time of year due to volume.


----------



## oneula

I think I'm set for budz/iems for the near future. Venture Electronics Sun DICE, Blur Earbud 40-60 PK32, Shouer Tape, TIN P3 (VE Copper cable) with the E1DA 9038S DAC/Amp stick. HiBy R3 and Tempotec V1A to drive with the Cayin N3. I really wanted to listen to the Blurs on my Revamp Acoustics Nuansa P1 but it doesn't have balanced out.


----------



## mbwilson111

oneula said:


> I really wanted to listen to the Blurs on my Revamp Acoustics Nuansa P1 but it doesn't have balanced out.



Surely there is an adapter available that you can use.  Balanced to,SE..


----------



## citral23 (Dec 4, 2019)

davjac84 said:


> Are they properly burned in yet?
> I found the bass for TO600 to "bloaty" too when my pair arrived. But after burn in (real or brain I don't know ) they felt much better First time I found a difference with burn-in.
> Still not as "buttery-clean" sounding as my TO400s, still not shure which buds I prefer, but leaning towards TO600, the extra bass can be nice for some songs.
> But the TO400s does not lack bass IMHO like some say, more and better than my Ourart ACG, MONK.



I put a about 10 hours on them, will follow your advice and give them more time. Also had a "what if" moment today, and remembered I discarded using balanced on my DSD pro because it kills the bass, but that may be what this one needs for me, will try later.

Received a BK2 replacement today, as I had gifted mine to my best friend, and it still rocks so great, especially on hip-hop that the tonekings don't do all that well due to somewhat muddy bass (except TO400s, but it's tuned differently), the BK2 bass is just so great for an earbud, round, extended and natural, works for all genres so well.


----------



## Mhog55

HungryPanda said:


> Penon ship really fast


Thank you. They shipped today. Email said 10 to 15 business days.


----------



## citral23

Okayyy, TO600 on balanced is happy, much tighter bass, really good actually, could have a bit more sparkle but it's fine for evening sessions.

While I'm at tweaking, double full foams (a thin one under the hiegi) is perfect for the RW-1000 for me.

Dat Sound, holy crap, where's the hi-res sticker lol


----------



## davjac84

citral23 said:


> I put a about 10 hours on them, will follow your advice and give them more time. Also had a "what if" moment today, and remembered I discarded using balanced on my DSD pro because it kills the bass, but that may be what this one needs for me, will try later.
> 
> Received a BK2 replacement today, as I had gifted mine to my best friend, and it still rocks so great, especially on hip-hop that the tonekings don't do all that well due to somewhat muddy bass (except TO400s, but it's tuned differently), the BK2 bass is just so great for an earbud, round, extended and natural, works for all genres so well.



For me 10 hours wasn't enough, maybe you too will have the same experience
Or else balanced may do the trick

You liking TO400s as much as you do makes me interested for the BK2, we may like same type of sound characteristics


----------



## davjac84

citral23 said:


> Okayyy, TO600 on balanced is happy, much tighter bass, really good actually, could have a bit more sparkle but it's fine for evening sessions.
> 
> While I'm at tweaking, double full foams (a thin one under the hiegi) is perfect for the RW-1000 for me.
> 
> Dat Sound, holy crap, where's the hi-res sticker lol



Oh, sweet! Too bad I don't have balanced source to try it out my self


----------



## Mhog55

davjac84 said:


> For me 10 hours wasn't enough, maybe you too will have the same experience
> Or else balanced may do the trick
> 
> You liking TO400s as much as you do makes me interested for the BK2, we may like same type of sound characteristics


I'm indecisive between the 200s and 400s. If I really enjoy the bk2, which one would I like better? I haven't heard a ton of buds, but the bk2 is a good, inexpensive all rounder imo. It's kinda like the Meze 99 Classics of earbuds. Obviously they don't sound the same, but they do every genre and frequency nicely. It's handles poor recordings quite well too. I'd really like to find a similar sounding bud, with greater detail retrieval, more air, better separation, and a little more excitement.


----------



## assassin10000

Mhog55 said:


> I'm indecisive between the 200s and 400s. If I really enjoy the bk2, which one would I like better? I haven't heard a ton of buds, but the bk2 is a good, inexpensive all rounder imo. It's kinda like the Meze 99 Classics of earbuds. Obviously they don't sound the same, but they do every genre and frequency nicely. It's handles poor recordings quite well too. I'd really like to find a similar sounding bud, with greater detail retrieval, more air, better separation, and a little more excitement.



M1 pro. Similar mid centric (all rounder) sound but with more clarity and detail.


----------



## Mhog55

assassin10000 said:


> M1 pro. Similar mid centric (all rounder) sound but with more clarity and detail.


I tried! Amazon let me down. Plan on picking them up sooner than later.


----------



## j4100

AK Store are taking their sweet time getting the lucky bag out. I got my NiceHCK B40 and Penon EA buds two weeks ago

Now waiting on Turnadot. I couldn't resist it, plus managed a couple of coupons, though they wouldn't work with the BF 10% (either or).


----------



## davjac84

Mhog55 said:


> I'm indecisive between the 200s and 400s. If I really enjoy the bk2, which one would I like better? I haven't heard a ton of buds, but the bk2 is a good, inexpensive all rounder imo. It's kinda like the Meze 99 Classics of earbuds. Obviously they don't sound the same, but they do every genre and frequency nicely. It's handles poor recordings quite well too. I'd really like to find a similar sounding bud, with greater detail retrieval, more air, better separation, and a little more excitement.



I can not say, I only have 400s and 600 But my toneking buds are by far the best sounding buds i have (and most expensive).
Maybe @citral23 have an opinion


----------



## Mhog55

Anyone own or heard these? I don't see the words subwoofer and earbuds going hand in hand.


----------



## citral23 (Dec 5, 2019)

davjac84 said:


> I can not say, I only have 400s and 600 But my toneking buds are by far the best sounding buds i have (and most expensive).
> Maybe @citral23 have an opinion



Yes, the TO400s is more like the BK2 than the TO200, it has a round sub and bass not unlike the BK2, albeit less in quantity, whereas the TO200 sounds extreeeeeemely dry. The TO200 has more mid-bass slam, a really physical, percussive sound, but no roundness down low.

The TO400s is more airy with more sparkle, and a flatter medium response to my hears, whereas the TO200 is weighted towards low-mids, and can sound a bit thick at times as a result.

So, the TO200 has little to do with the BK2, it's a very specific dry sound that I find extremely exciting and stimulating on small jazz combos but won't be for everyone.

The TO400 to the BK2, is a bit like what the Tin T2 is to the Blon-03, the T2 is more correct, flat sounding, what any audiophile would pick for classical, but the blon is more fun and versatile.

What I find great with the tonekings, especially the TO200/TO600 shells (thus probably TO180) (but also goes for the TO400s albeit less) is that you I crank the volume they just get better and better and "open up" the soundstage and instruments separation, instead of getting shouty.


----------



## robar

Mhog55 said:


> Anyone own or heard these? I don't see the words subwoofer and earbuds going hand in hand.


Wow those look like something from an 80s sci fi movie set


----------



## oneula

i guess this is a misc. question;

but is there some trade secret on how to get your foamies especially the thin ones on your earbuds without going absolutely crazy?

I just have to prep 10 HI TY150Pros with foams for presents and I felt like I'd rather cut my own throat than to suffer trying to put foamies on the next bud.
It's the worst thing about owning earbuds IMHO.

help?


----------



## DBaldock9

oneula said:


> i guess this is a misc. question;
> 
> but is there some trade secret on how to get your foamies especially the thin ones on your earbuds without going absolutely crazy?
> 
> ...




Different folks here on the thread have recommended pre-stretching the foams a bit with your fingers.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

oneula said:


> i guess this is a misc. question;
> 
> but is there some trade secret on how to get your foamies especially the thin ones on your earbuds without going absolutely crazy?





Spoiler


----------



## mbwilson111

oneula said:


> but is there some trade secret on how to get your foamies especially the thin ones on your earbuds without going absolutely crazy?



No.

Sometimes it helps to cry to release a little of the frustration.  After that it suddenly works.

or, ask a nimble fingered child to help.


----------



## cqtek

Hello, everybody.

I would like to share my humble thoughts about the Smabat M1. I hope you like it:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-m1-pro.24065/reviews#review-22989


----------



## cocolinho

Received my *Turandot *from 1111 sales on Ali, paid 150€ for these using seller coupon & ali coupon
I really like what I'm hearing out of my DX160, the tuning is very appealing to me! By the way I'm not using the original foams but a slightly thinner ones, a bit more transparent but not VE transparent (sound too thin).

Sound is warm because of rather elevated upper bass/low mids (good for men vocals) but it keeps good clarity with a bump in the high mids without bringing ANY fatigue, highs are perfect for me, providing some air but they NEVER disturb you. Thanks to this bump and the agility of the driver, sound is dynamic, musical and details retrieval is good. 
They are forgiving of the record, so everything sound good! A huge plus for me.
Soundstage is rather large, not that deep but instruments are well separated, easy to pinpoint and timbres of instruments are natural to me. 

On top of that, they are beautiful & very comfortable I can listen to them for hours!!

For me, they are definitely a keeper and I think I'll use them a lot in the office


----------



## robar (Dec 5, 2019)

oneula said:


> I just have to prep 10 HI TY150Pros with foams for presents and I felt like I'd rather cut my own throat than to suffer trying to put foamies on the next bud.
> It's the worst thing about owning earbuds IMHO.
> help?


Pre-stretch can help. I usually able to put on a pair of new foams in about 30 seconds. (maybe playing guitar in the past helps haha) I push the edge of the earbud into the middle of the foam, then sliding it inside. I push the foam from behind with one of my fingers to help it. I might make quick video if somebody finds it useful. It's also useful to have a very small earbud like qian39 which is very easy to "dress", and you can use it as a preparation for larger buds


----------



## jibberish

robar said:


> Pre-stretch can help. I usually able to put on a pair of new foams in about 30 seconds. (maybe playing guitar in the past helps haha) I push the edge of the earbud into the middle of the foam, then sliding it inside. I push the foam from behind with one of my fingers to help it. I might make quick video if somebody finds it useful. It's also useful to have a very small earbud like qian39 which is very easy to "dress", and you can use it as a preparation for larger buds


That's exactly what I do too, I can get donut foams on pk shell buds quite easily, so I put them on my sr2 to stretch and shape the foams first, then they typically go onto larger buds quite easily after that.


----------



## Mhog55

robar said:


> Wow those look like something from an 80s sci fi movie set


Like something Marty Mcfly would be wearing.


----------



## robar (Dec 5, 2019)

So I looked closely how I install foams, this is they way I do it: I hold the earbud by the stem with my thumb and index finger. I keep one side of the foam in place by my middle finger (on the same hand), pushing it against the earbud (slided in if it's possible). With my other hand, I slide the the foam hole over the earbud's edge, then slowly pulling the foam edge up in a circular fashion. I'm not sure if I described it well, basically you hold the earbud and the foam in place with the same hand, and you slide it up in position with the other. Probably it's better to just film it haha.



Mhog55 said:


> Like something Marty Mcfly would be wearing.


Yep haha that was my first thought. It would look nice in the Millennium Falcon too.


----------



## citral23 (Dec 5, 2019)

After much A/Bing I decided to gift the TO400s to my father for Christmas with an Apple dongle. I tried on a friend's iPhone and the volume is plenty.

He listens almost exclusively to classical, and I feel this is the better earbud for that purpose.

A very serious contender is the moondrop nameless. It is baffling how natural it sounds, and is probably the most accurate representation of what a record is intended to sound like imo, and can probably compete with very expensive speakers.

It is let down by a very microphonics cable, and the build looks overall so fragile, that the TO400s wins this round however for a gift, as I'm not very confident the nameless will still work in one year.

It is excellent to relax statically at night tho, so laid back and transparent, beautiful.

I have decided to keep the TO600 on balanced cable, and to sell the EBX instead, which is too redundant with the RW-1000 that has a better fit (by far), finish, construction and sound.

So I'll be without TO400s until I can afford a new one, let's hope I survive haha


----------



## golov17

Mhog55 said:


> Anyone own or heard these? I don't see the words subwoofer and earbuds going hand in hand.


As I found out, this is just the KC08T version for China, the sound does not differ from the international version without color marks on the housing.


----------



## DBaldock9

citral23 said:


> After much A/Bing I decided to gift the TO400s to my father for Christmas with an Apple dongle. I tried on a friend's iPhone and the volume is plenty.
> 
> He listens almost exclusively to classical, and I feel this is the better earbud for that purpose.
> 
> ...



Does the TO600 have the same amount of really Low Bass Impact that the EBX has?


----------



## citral23

DBaldock9 said:


> Does the TO600 have the same amount of really Low Bass Impact that the EBX has?



It is a bit hard to compare now as my balanced out has much less bass than single-ended, but I would say no.

It is a vastly different sound signature, the EBX has a bright, high definition "modern" sound and the TO600 (like the TO200) has a more rough, organic sound.

Probably less bass extension, but in any case more mid-bass for the TO600.

The EBX is a digital cd sound, and the TO600 a vinyl sound if you like an analogy. You can push the vinyl it will just roar pleasantly, while pushing the cd player will be aggressive.

Dunno if it makes sense but that's how I hear it. Definition and clarity : EBX. Organic sound : Toneking.

Guess what I'll pick to listen to John Lee Hooker ^^


----------



## oneula

Alex.Grimm said:


> Spoiler




Yeah 
from my experience 
that video is a bunch of BS

I end up ripping my VE thin foams just stretching them across halfway
and that frigging little hole just doesn't want to open up, I think you need decent finger nails or small fingers to separate the front and backside of the foams before trying to slide them on
I guess my old, grumpy and impatient side comes out when something so stupid that ends up being feeling like such a waste of time
The thick junk foams you get with the cheapo buds go on real easy
the expensive fancy ones end up being the hardest 
like the ones that make you cuss when you rip them trying to get them on.
I should've just given the KSC75s with the yaxi japanese replacement foams instead of these little TY HE150pro earbuds.

Thanks for the suggestions
someone should make a tool to do this
like those expanding spring clip pliers 
something you could stick in the hole with two teflon half moons and squeeze which would expand the foam which you could then insert the bud and then release


----------



## acroyear

cocolinho said:


> Received my *Turandot *from 1111 sales on Ali, paid 150€ for these using seller coupon & ali coupon
> I really like what I'm hearing out of my DX160, the tuning is very appealing to me! By the way I'm not using the original foams but a slightly thinner ones, a bit more transparent but not VE transparent (sound too thin).
> 
> Sound is warm because of rather elevated upper bass/low mids (good for men vocals) but it keeps good clarity with a bump in the high mids without bringing ANY fatigue, highs are perfect for me, providing some air but they NEVER disturb you. Thanks to this bump and the agility of the driver, sound is dynamic, musical and details retrieval is good.
> ...



Thank you for those impressions!  I just purchased a set, and I'm eagerly awaiting them.  I'm coming from a set of Zoomfreds.  Anyone out there heard both?

Also.. can you tell if the "Turandot" etching on the side is going to fade off, or is it actually engraved in the metal?  Superficial question, I know.. but I'm curious about that gorgeous finish.


----------



## oneula

found something


----------



## robar (Dec 5, 2019)

oneula said:


> I end up ripping my VE thin foams just stretching them across halfway
> and that frigging little hole just doesn't want to open up, I think you need decent finger nails or small fingers to separate the front and backside of the foams before trying to slide them on
> I guess my old, grumpy and impatient side comes out when something so stupid that ends up being feeling like such a waste of time
> The thick junk foams you get with the cheapo buds go on real easy
> the expensive fancy ones end up being the hardest


Interesting, if the material of the VE thin is so inflexible and fragile, why don't they make them bigger? Or this is the business for them, let people rip apart half of the set so they buy more lol? The only plausible option I can imagine is that these foams were designed for smaller shells. Cheaper donut foams are not on option for you by the way? This sounds like a waste of time and money, I sure won't torture myself with these based on your experience


----------



## BadReligionPunk

BadReligionPunk said:


> Okay, So finally am sitting here listening to the ME80. No foams. These things are Female vocals monsters. Very natural. Very forward. I personally like very forward female vocals. Bass is good on these. Not heavy and not light either. Basslines are right where they should be and kicks are clearly audible. Maybe one day I will get to listening to some men sing some stuff, but right now The great Nina Simone has got a spell on me.
> 
> Source is Fiio M11, High Gain, Vol 60



Hasn't been a lot of talk of these lately. Im still hooked. I will be going to bed with Billie Holiday tonight.


----------



## waynes world

BadReligionPunk said:


> Hasn't been a lot of talk of these lately. Im still hooked. I will be going to bed with Billie Holiday tonight.



I will be hooked on them again once they make the rotation back into my ears (which, thanks to your post, might be sooner than later!).

In summary: yes, the ME80's are great.


----------



## DBaldock9

citral23 said:


> It is a bit hard to compare now as my balanced out has much less bass than single-ended, but I would say no.
> 
> It is a vastly different sound signature, the EBX has a bright, high definition "modern" sound and the TO600 (like the TO200) has a more rough, organic sound.
> 
> ...



I'm listening to my EBX right now (Hiegi Donut over Hiegi Full Foams) on the Balanced output of my iBasso PB2 Amp (2x Burson V6 Classic op-amps), and I agree that they have good Bass extension, and then a bit of a recessed Mid-Bass (which robs them of some realism).
If you get a chance, listen to a set of K's 600 earbuds (I've modified mine, by installing a 2.5mm TRRS plug).
They've got really "_real_" sounding Bass.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 5, 2019)

DBaldock9 said:


> I'm listening to my EBX right now (Hiegi Donut over Hiegi Full Foams) on the Balanced output of my iBasso PB2 Amp (2x Burson V6 Classic op-amps), and I agree that they have good Bass extension, and then a bit of a recessed Mid-Bass (which robs them of some realism).
> If you get a chance, listen to a set of K's 600 earbuds (I've modified mine, by installing a 2.5mm TRRS plug).
> They've got really "_real_" sounding Bass.


To600 has a very full mid bass and low mids, the issue for me was there wasn't enough extension below 50hz to balance the heavy mid bass so you do get that bloated bass sound without much depth.

That's with the stock SE cable anyway. I honestly dont know if balanced makes a difference but I think the driver or housing/tuning is limiting the bass depth.

The to600 is a bit mid centric because of this with both a full warm midrange and slightly bright low treble (not very fatiguing just slightly elevated). I'd rather slightly less bloat in the middle frequencies and slightly more energy on each end but that's just me. Although the upper treble is perfectly fine on the to600 as its not too dark, its more about the relation of mid bass/low mids to the sub bass.

Theres one vent on the bottom, so it can be quiet easy to manipulate the sound for a bit tighter bass but you'd probably have to use double foams then because it becomes quiet bright. But the thick shell may not play so well with double foams... Although I would like to hear these drivers in an mx500 shell out of curiosity, might be a completely different beast!


----------



## oneula

the more I listen to my new 40-60 PK32 4.4mm Blurs hand made by Wong Kuan Wae in Singapore the more impressed I become with them especially their sound.
The cable's a little stiff similar to my Willsound MK32 8core black 
but the sound coming of these shells is amazing even if they cost like 5 times the cost of the Willsounds
no comparison 
plus they are very easily driven at 32okm
already pre-burned in by the creator with foamies attached 
just plug. play and enjoy


----------



## the diode

I love the red and white. They look awesome!!!


----------



## citral23

Snow lotus 2.0 sounds like a cheaper SE TO600 out of the box, scales well with volume without becoming harsh, similar sound signature but a bit less refined, and with a smaller soundstage. Good value imo, I prefer them sound and cable wise to the shiro-yuki.


----------



## chaiyuta

Link


----------



## munchzilla

hi Earbuddies,
I've been "out of the audio game" for a while now... but I've been considering something that might seem a little wacko...
I have a really sensitive head and giant ears, so I'm thinking of replacing my full-size headphones with some earbuds which I found comfortable, as I like to listen with speakers most of the time at my desk anyway.
for some reason I get headaches in less than an hour with HD650 - even with new pads and whatnot.

are there any that you would say sounds similar to a HD650, with forward mids / a little warmth, but also a fairly linear treble without any big peaks? dips tend to be more OK but not harsh peaks.

I'm also wondering if they can do soundstage/imaging well...

budget would be preferrably less than $500, and I really need repleaceable cables as I don't want to have to replace the entire earbud if they break.

thank you!


----------



## acroyear

The Zoomfred sound like full size cans to me, but they don't have detachable cables.  The To600 are warm and very full sounding to my ears with zero treble harshness.  They have detachable cables and an excellent build


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Having some fun with the *V-Friend Super Bass* (_Plus+_) and one of the worlds smallest Android phones, the *Unihertz Jelly Pro* (2.4" screen). 






--


----------



## citral23

acroyear said:


> The Zoomfred sound like full size cans to me, but they don't have detachable cables.  The To600 are warm and very full sounding to my ears with zero treble harshness.  They have detachable cables and an excellent build



Yup, the TO600 is very warm, with completely inoffensive highs. TO400s is preferable if OP wants a more linear, less coloured FR with more treble extension, still very comfortable to the ears but a bit brighter.


----------



## HungryPanda

K's K600 is the closest earbud that reminds me of my HD650's


----------



## munchzilla

acroyear said:


> The Zoomfred sound like full size cans to me, but they don't have detachable cables.  The To600 are warm and very full sounding to my ears with zero treble harshness.  They have detachable cables and an excellent build



I did read about the camp/zoom-freds, they seem really interesting. unfortunately the non-detachable cable might be a deal-breaker for me  I really would like to be able to swap out the cable since that tends to be what breaks the first.
have you heard the HD650 - and would you be able to compare it if so? is the detail retrieval good enough etc..? 



citral23 said:


> Yup, the TO600 is very warm, with completely inoffensive highs. TO400s is preferable if OP wants a more linear, less coloured FR with more treble extension, still very comfortable to the ears but a bit brighter.



hmm interesting. I don't really know what the frame of reference is for comfortable for the ears, but if it's more akin to HD600 then I'd probably prefer something a touch more relaxed. the HD600 is a little too bright for my ears.



HungryPanda said:


> K's K600 is the closest earbud that reminds me of my HD650's



interesting! would you say they are at all comparable, except for the obvious drawbacks of extension with earbuds?
a little unfortunate that it's not a detachable cable. but I do like the simple shell it has.

---

thank you very much for the replies!


----------



## citral23

I only have the SHP9500 (with thicker Shure pads) to compare, and the TO600 is comparable in treble quantity.

That headphone was much brighter stock tho. Now its bass is much fuller, more than the TO600 actually (well I'm running it on a bass-shy balanced output, will be more on single ended)

So yeah, the TO600 could be a good bet.


----------



## munchzilla

citral23 said:


> I only have the SHP9500 (with thicker Shure pads) to compare, and the TO600 is comparable in treble quantity.
> 
> That headphone was much brighter stock tho. Now its bass is much fuller, more than the TO600 actually (well I'm running it on a bass-shy balanced output, will be more on single ended)
> 
> So yeah, the TO600 could be a good bet.



ohh hmm, yeah, the SHP9500 stock is very bright to me. I have no idea how it might sound with the Shure pads, but they certainly made my Audio Technica headphones a bit darker.

by the way, I see you have the ZS7 - do the Tonekings have more midrange compared to these? I have heard the ZS7 briefly a while back - a bit too withdrawn midrange and maybe too forward treble.
a comparison here would be great if you could do so please 

and I should perhaps ask... I will be using these with a phone, one of those "apple USB dongles" - would that even work with these Tonekings? they have very low sensitivity and high impedance for an earbud it seems.

thank you very much again! these sure look nice! and people seem to be a fan of their comfort levels.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 7, 2019)

chaiyuta said:


> Link


They look great. Wonder how they sound


HungryPanda said:


> K's K600 is the closest earbud that reminds me of my HD650's


Have you had a chance to listen to the Turandot you gifted to @mbwilson111 ?

If so how does that compare to Hd650 and K's 600. I see it has been described as warm but detailed and with good mids.


----------



## theresanarc (Dec 7, 2019)

Got the Faaeal Z-Sound 32 Ohms today (I'd oredered them with the Toneking ROS1s cos I wanted a cheaper earbud to go with the overpriced Tonekings).  They aren't bad at all for the $2.75 price, not uncomfortable but not as ergonomic as the flatter buds either. Sound signature (with included foams) is a bit too bright for me but people with bigger ears might find it more balanced.

Although my ears are probably changing since I first got VE Monks several years ago. I'd say that I probably prefer that V shaped sound signature that has bass but is also clear more nowadays than the sound signature I always tried to get (flat with no sibilance but clear).


----------



## HungryPanda

seanc6441 said:


> They look great. Wonder how they sound
> 
> Have you had a chance to listen to the Turandot you gifted to @mbwilson111 ?
> 
> If so how does that compare to Hd650 and K's 600. I see it has been described as warm but detailed and with good mids.


The Turandot has to be the best earbud I have heard. Quite lively with great extension at both ends


----------



## EagleWings

Actually Turandot’s signature is quite comparable to the HD650. A little warm in the lows and lower mids. The upper mids not bumped up like a Diffused Field/Harman curve, but has sufficient quantity. Treble is also quite similar with the 650 having slightly better extension. The 2 phones differ in the presentation though. HD650 has a bit of a forward presentation on most amps, whereas the Turandot is a touch relaxed in its presentation. HD650 being a full size headphone creates bigger instrument and vocal images. It also pulls ahead when it comes to dynamics and articulation.


----------



## munchzilla

HungryPanda said:


> The Turandot has to be the best earbud I have heard. Quite lively with great extension at both ends





EagleWings said:


> Actually Turandot’s signature is quite comparable to the HD650. A little warm in the lows and lower mids. The upper mids not bumped up like a Diffused Field/Harman curve, but has sufficient quantity. Treble is also quite similar with the 650 having slightly better extension. The 2 phones differ in the presentation though. HD650 has a bit of a forward presentation on most amps, whereas the Turandot is a touch relaxed in its presentation. HD650 being a full size headphone creates bigger instrument and vocal images. It also pulls ahead when it comes to dynamics and articulation.




reading these posts... really makes me wish this earbud had MMCX connectors and a detachable cable. 
being all-metal it seems like it might not be possible to mod it easily...

do any of you who have tried it know how it compares to something like the Toneking TO600?

and, it's probably not fair to expect full-size imaging/soundstage from an earbud, but I might be wrong!


----------



## citral23 (Dec 8, 2019)

munchzilla said:


> ohh hmm, yeah, the SHP9500 stock is very bright to me. I have no idea how it might sound with the Shure pads, but they certainly made my Audio Technica headphones a bit darker.
> 
> by the way, I see you have the ZS7 - do the Tonekings have more midrange compared to these? I have heard the ZS7 briefly a while back - a bit too withdrawn midrange and maybe too forward treble.
> a comparison here would be great if you could do so please
> ...



It's hard to imagine an earphone that is much further apart from the TO600 than the ZS7, ZS7 has more sub than mid-bass, is v-shaped and has in your face treble, the TO600 I wouldn't call flat, but is more u-shaped I think, soft treble, and prominent mid-bass.

The apple lightning dongle  drive the TO400s fine, but that one has higher sensitivity (112db/mw) than the TO600 (108db/mw) so I can't say for certain it's enough. But I think someone said it works fine in this thread, not so long ago.

I'll get the TO180 in 2 weeks or so I think, could be a good one as reviews say it has more bass than the TO200, which has the same sort of sound than the TO600 but with a very dry bass. At 150 ohms it would be a safe bet to drive from a dongle, will report once I get it.

Don't be afraid, while some people report the Shure pads as 'taming the highs a little' on the SHP9500, it's completely night and day to my ears, not the same headphone at all.


----------



## munchzilla

citral23 said:


> It's hard to imagine an earphone that is much further apart from the TO600 than the ZS7, ZS7 has more sub than mid-bass, is v-shaped and has in your face treble, the TO600 I wouldn't call flat, but is more u-shaped I think, soft treble, and prominent mid-bass.
> 
> The apple lightning dongle  drive the TO400s fine, but that one has higher sensitivity (112db/mw) than the TO600 (108db/mw) so I can't say for certain it's enough. But I think someone said it works fine in this thread, not so long ago.
> 
> ...



ahh interesting... I'm looking for a more mid-forward earbud, so U-shaped might not be ideal. maybe I'm misunderstanding - or if it's a *very* gentle U-shape perhaps it could work.
soft treble is definitely what I like, and a touch of mid-bass, but mostly a flatter midrange for good vocals, and whatever parts are needed for good guitar sounds.
sub-bass isn't at all a big priority, but I do like a little mid-bass without dips in the lower midrange.

I don't listen very loud, so maybe I don't have super high power requirements. I also have the iFi Nano Black Label but that one I don't like to take with me for portable use, it stays on my desktop.

gosh this is very difficult, almost impossible to try these here in Europe... 
if the midrange/vocal range on the TO600 is considered top tier and not too withdrawn/far back, I am a little tempted to pick up a pair for desktop use only... and maybe find something else for portable if the Apple Dongle isn't enough.

if there are any other owners reading this here, feel free to chime in, especially if you have comparisons to anything else - headphones mainly perhaps.
I only have the VIDO currently, but have also owned Shozy BK before, and a BLOX earbud (forgot model name now... BE5 or something?).

thank you very much for the detailed responses, you are being super helpful! just need that last little bit of convincing...


----------



## golov17

munchzilla said:


> hi Earbuddies,
> I've been "out of the audio game" for a while now... but I've been considering something that might seem a little wacko...
> I have a really sensitive head and giant ears, so I'm thinking of replacing my full-size headphones with some earbuds which I found comfortable, as I like to listen with speakers most of the time at my desk anyway.
> for some reason I get headaches in less than an hour with HD650 - even with new pads and whatnot.
> ...


 https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=46


----------



## munchzilla

golov17 said:


> https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=46



ohh this looks nice...
however, I'm not finding much information about these. the only thing I could find was a comparison to VE Zen 2.0 which I haven't heard much...

do you own these?

thank you for the link!


----------



## golov17

munchzilla said:


> ohh this looks nice...
> however, I'm not finding much information about these. the only thing I could find was a comparison to VE Zen 2.0 which I haven't heard much...
> 
> do you own these?
> ...


https://www.facebook.com/groups/832681366809230


----------



## citral23

munchzilla said:


> ahh interesting... I'm looking for a more mid-forward earbud, so U-shaped might not be ideal. maybe I'm misunderstanding - or if it's a *very* gentle U-shape perhaps it could work.
> soft treble is definitely what I like, and a touch of mid-bass, but mostly a flatter midrange for good vocals, and whatever parts are needed for good guitar sounds.
> sub-bass isn't at all a big priority, but I do like a little mid-bass without dips in the lower midrange.
> 
> ...



Maybe before spending 50, 200 or even more you should just get the moondrop nameless, which is as flat as it gets (maybe very slight mids elevation) and has a big soundstage, it has no removable cable but it's cheap and is good to have to relax should you get something else after that.

From there we should be able to help if you want more of this, less of that?


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 8, 2019)

EagleWings said:


> Actually Turandot’s signature is quite comparable to the HD650. A little warm in the lows and lower mids. The upper mids not bumped up like a Diffused Field/Harman curve, but has sufficient quantity. Treble is also quite similar with the 650 having slightly better extension. The 2 phones differ in the presentation though. HD650 has a bit of a forward presentation on most amps, whereas the Turandot is a touch relaxed in its presentation. HD650 being a full size headphone creates bigger instrument and vocal images. It also pulls ahead when it comes to dynamics and articulation.


Oh man if it was a touch forward in the mids it would probably be my ideal signature then. Still sounds like it would be fantastic.

And if they did push the mids forward you'd almost certainly lose perceived soundstage.


----------



## acroyear

munchzilla said:


> reading these posts... really makes me wish this earbud had MMCX connectors and a detachable cable.
> being all-metal it seems like it might not be possible to mod it easily...
> 
> do any of you who have tried it know how it compares to something like the Toneking TO600?
> ...



My Turandots arrive Tuesday.  I have the To600 and the Zoomfred and I can give a comparison.  As it stands now, the Zoomfred is the best earbud I've ever heard.


----------



## EagleWings

munchzilla said:


> and, it's probably not fair to expect full-size imaging/soundstage from an earbud, but I might be wrong!



The size of the soundstage itself is pretty large. Meaning, it is able place instruments far from you. But where it doesn’t match full-size HPs is, the size of the instrument images, which are comparatively smaller on the T-dot.



seanc6441 said:


> Oh man if it was a touch forward in the mids it would probably be my ideal signature then. Still sounds like it would be fantastic.
> 
> And if they did push the mids forward you'd almost certainly lose perceived soundstage.



Actually it’s not that the mids are recessed per se. It’s the entire presentation being slightly relaxed, in direct comparison to the HD650. Please don’t read too much into that. The mids on the T-dot have very good presence and body. I am a midrange lover and I love the midrange on the T-dot.


----------



## EagleWings

acroyear said:


> My Turandots arrive Tuesday.  I have the To600 and the Zoomfred and I can give a comparison.  As it stands now, the Zoomfred is the best earbud I've ever heard.



I’d love to read your comparison with the TO600 and the Zoomfred. Looking forward to it.


----------



## munchzilla

citral23 said:


> Maybe before spending 50, 200 or even more you should just get the moondrop nameless, which is as flat as it gets (maybe very slight mids elevation) and has a big soundstage, it has no removable cable but it's cheap and is good to have to relax should you get something else after that.
> 
> From there we should be able to help if you want more of this, less of that?



while I really think that it is a good and sane idea, the importing fees are really high here in Sweden, which makes buying cheap earbuds a bit of a poor value proposition... if I don't end up liking it, that is, of course.
also, I really don't like making small purchases if I can spend a little bit more to get something that I will be more satisfied with at once... 

sorry if I'm being very picky/difficult - I don't intend to be annoying 
just trying to not have to go through so much of a journey with audio, as I feel like I have spent far too much time in the hobby, and I also feel like I know what kind of sound I enjoy and would like to pursue.
it's just really hard to get a good view of what these things sound like, as you probably know, you yourself 

I wouldn't mind a VIDO that sounded more hi-fi and maybe a touch less mid-bass, and perhaps a little more polite treble - if that is of any help, as a reference point for earbuds.
or Shozy BK with a touch less upper mid-range.



acroyear said:


> My Turandots arrive Tuesday.  I have the To600 and the Zoomfred and I can give a comparison.  As it stands now, the Zoomfred is the best earbud I've ever heard.



ahh. hmm. I've only heard good things about the Fred earbuds... strange name, but also cute.
these don't have detachable cables either unfortunately.

but you would agree that the TO600 is not sibilant/harsh/too bright, right?
no peaks or anything? 



EagleWings said:


> The size of the soundstage itself is pretty large. Meaning, it is able place instruments far from you. But where it doesn’t match full-size HPs is, the size of the instrument images, which are comparatively smaller on the T-dot.



okay that makes sense, so the imaging isn't going to be up there with full-size headphones - kind of like how headphones can't match speaker imaging, I suppose? 

---

thank you again everyone!!


----------



## theresanarc

Out of cuirsity, what is your go-to bud you guys like to use for movies/TV/sports etc? I'm guessing it's more of a disposable bud that is forward sounding and keeps the vocals emphasized over the background noise?


----------



## citral23

theresanarc said:


> Out of cuirsity, what is your go-to bud you guys like to use for movies/TV/sports etc? I'm guessing it's more of a disposable bud that is forward sounding and keeps the vocals emphasized over the background noise?



I like the BK2 because it has a fun sound, with deep bass and warm mids, otherwise the benjie earbuds that came with the S5 do a very good job for YouTube videos, a bit of music, this and that.


----------



## robar (Dec 8, 2019)

theresanarc said:


> Out of cuirsity, what is your go-to bud you guys like to use for movies/TV/sports etc? I'm guessing it's more of a disposable bud that is forward sounding and keeps the vocals emphasized over the background noise?


I use Qian39 all the time for podcasts/youtube/talks/tutorials. It has very clear and forward voice reproduction, and the rolled off highs make bad quality recordings listenable. I wouldn't recommend it for music listening but for your purposes it's neat in my opinion. It exactly does what you need - emphasize voice over anything else. Works well while walking outside, and also quite comfortable as a sleeping bud. For less than 5usd it's a good deal as a purely functional accessory.

edit: for a cheap well balanced all rounder solution I really like the Qian69, for me it's very comfy and the sound is suitable for most uses, music listening included (except bass heavy needs, but it has more bass than B40 for example) The sound is balanced with a little extra midbass plus some clarity around 2.5khz, the highs are gentle and a bit soft. It has decent bass compared to other comfortable buds in this price range. It doesnt push the vocals in your face like the Qian39 but it's much better in terms of musicality, details and imaging.


----------



## Chris674

@munchzilla What color Vidos do you have? The blue have got the most balanced sound. Sounds similar to what you're looking for. Other than that, I've viewed the Earbuds Anonymous bud to be a super upgraded white Vido. It doesn't have less mid bass necessarily but the bass quality is much higher and it doesnt interfere with the mids at all. Mids and treble are very clean and unoffensive.


----------



## munchzilla

Chris674 said:


> @munchzilla What color Vidos do you have? The blue have got the most balanced sound. Sounds similar to what you're looking for. Other than that, I've viewed the Earbuds Anonymous bud to be a super upgraded white Vido. It doesn't have less mid bass necessarily but the bass quality is much higher and it doesnt interfere with the mids at all. Mids and treble are very clean and unoffensive.



I didn't know there were different ones... mine are the blue ones with the remote/microphone. I wanted something I could use for phone calls on the go and thought they seemed nice... 

I'll check out the Earbuds Anonymous, thanks for the recommendation!


----------



## acroyear

munchzilla said:


> while I really think that it is a good and sane idea, the importing fees are really high here in Sweden, which makes buying cheap earbuds a bit of a poor value proposition... if I don't end up liking it, that is, of course.
> also, I really don't like making small purchases if I can spend a little bit more to get something that I will be more satisfied with at once...
> 
> sorry if I'm being very picky/difficult - I don't intend to be annoying
> ...



The Zoomfred aren't labeled "Zoomfred" anywhere anyway, so it actually really doesn't matter.  Just C A X printed in white on each bud.  

As for the To600, I guarantee there is nothing harsh about them.  They're extremely pleasant to listen to.  You do need an amp with them, or a powerful dap to get the most out of them.


----------



## fonkepala

j4100 said:


> AK Store are taking their sweet time getting the lucky bag out. I got my NiceHCK B40 and Penon EA buds two weeks ago



What are your thoughts on the EA buds?



Mhog55 said:


> Anyone own or heard these? I don't see the words subwoofer and earbuds going hand in hand.



Saw this a few pages back. IIRC, CLieOs has the KC08T and likes how they sound. They do look funky though. 



Alex.Grimm said:


> Spoiler




Oh wow, I've never thought of putting foams on that way!  Invert them (inside out) first and then roll them gently onto the shell. Huh. Whowouldvethunk....



Chris674 said:


> @munchzilla What color Vidos do you have? The blue have got the most balanced sound.



I've read that the red Vidos are the ones that are most balanced sounding.


----------



## robar (Dec 9, 2019)

fonkepala said:


> I've read that the red Vidos are the ones that are most balanced sounding.



The new version of blue vido (Y-cable) is very flat sounding, but it's achieved by over dampening plus the driver itself can't really keep up with the sound signature, so it sounds quite soft and mellow, almost muffled. The white is very V-shaped. I haven't heard the red so far but I guess it is something in the middle, so it has a bit v-shape but keeps the mids roughly natural. (I guess it would be the most balanced out of the three in a musical sense)


----------



## jenkinsontherun

Hello all,

I am looking for an earbud with pk shell and sounds good without foam. 

I currently have EMX500 (****), Faaeal rosemary, and Fengru EMX500.

The EMX500 sounds smooth and detailed without the foam, but the layering and soundstage are lackluster.

I am willing to spend up to $100.  I asked Blur creator whether his earbuds sound good without foam, and he said that they do not (they need the foam).

As I understand, many of you don't mind using the foam, but strangely my ears are quite sensitive to long-term pressure, especially from the MX shell, which is straight.

I think that the PK shell will work well as they are smaller in diameter, and their bodies are curved.

How do the Yuin PK series sound without foam?  Shozy stardust is a bit too expensive, and their reviews are with foam, so I can't go with those, but cheaper option is okay.

Just a balanced sound is sufficient, nothing too special.

Thanks so much!


----------



## Nimweth

Smabat ST-10 ordered today. The M1 Pro was excellent, so I am looking forward to hearing the flagship model!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

For those of you who own or are interested in the Earbuds Anonymous Earbud (aka EA Earbud), I would appreciate any feedback, thoughts, photos or questions.

I have started a Thread for them here:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-anonymous-earbud.920882/


Best,

The Designer/Tuner


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I got my hands on the Yincrow RW-1000.  I am impressed with the clarity of the sound.  Though bass and soundstage leave a bit to be had.

Overall it is still a very enjoyable earbud for some classical, vocal or guitar.












--


----------



## waynes world

BloodyPenguin said:


> I got my hands on the Yincrow RW-1000.  I am impressed with the clarity of the sound.  Though bass and soundstage leave a bit to be had.
> 
> Overall it is still a very enjoyable earbud for some classical, vocal or guitar.
> 
> ...



How would you quickly compare them to the EA buds?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

waynes world said:


> How would you quickly compare them to the EA buds?



Complete opposites.

The EA earbud is warmer, with a slight pull to mids and sub-bass, with smooth highs.


----------



## waynes world

BloodyPenguin said:


> The EA earbud is warmer, with a slight pull to mids and sub-bass, with smooth highs.



You're speaking my kinda language there!


----------



## 40760

Just when I thought Kube V1 couldn't get any better, the Kube Plus by Willy are back in my hands after countless weeks of waiting. Well worth it.


----------



## fonkepala

palestofwhite said:


> Just when I thought Kube V1 couldn't get any better, the Kube Plus by Willy are back in my hands after countless weeks of waiting. Well worth it.



How do they sound like?

On the other hand, I'm (trying) to enjoy the sound of the Kube v2.


----------



## j4100

fonkepala said:


> What are your thoughts



No point asking me. I either like them, or I don't. I can't get my head around explaining differences or describing things.


----------



## fonkepala

j4100 said:


> No point asking me. I either like them, or I don't. I can't get my head around explaining differences or describing things.



Oookay.


----------



## HungryPanda

Yincrow RW-1000 in my ears, very comfortable. Tuned quite bright but do go deep just not bass orientated. Sound good with full foams. Will burn them in now by listening.


----------



## 40760

fonkepala said:


> How do they sound like?
> 
> On the other hand, I'm (trying) to enjoy the sound of the Kube v2.



Sounds like an overall more refined version of Kube V1 with a more controlled low end.


----------



## waynes world

j4100 said:


> No point asking me. I either like them, or I don't. I can't get my head around explaining differences or describing things.



Brilliant - consider that blurb to be plagiarized!


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Brilliant - consider that blurb to be plagiarized!



It should be in my signature.


----------



## j4100

fonkepala said:


> Oookay.



I was probably a little blunt there. What I should have said was, I'm useless at it 



waynes world said:


> Brilliant - consider that blurb to be plagiarized!



Plagarise away. I have to say, I did try to compare different buds a few years back and gave up. Some of you are a lot better at this than I. 



mbwilson111 said:


> It should be in my signature.



I was aware that you and I share the love of earbuds, but a dislike of explaining the sound. 

Perhaps I should put something in my signature to save other earbud aficionados from wasting their time asking me stuff about the sound.


----------



## citral23

robar said:


> I'll be interested in you ry4s ue vs BK2 comparison.  My second bud was ry4s ue and while I really liked the energy and details of it, I found the vocals/timbre quite thin and not very natural, the overall response leans toward the upper half. The bass is ok, clean and tight with decent depth, just around the minimum bearable quantity for me haha. Highs were a bit sharper than I can tolerate for more than a half an hour. But I have slight fit/seal issues with mx500 shells like most people, I hear more optimal sound when I push them into my ears with my fingers but that's not really a solution haha. (this is why I prefer Qian69 shell, it fixes this issue completely for me) While the blue qian25 is a lower tier earbud with less performance, I much prefer its balance compared to ry4s ue, it basically tilts the signature back to horizontal. (quite neutral and balanced but less aggressive and adds back the missing low mid / bass)



Finally received the ry4s, I have no problem with the fit at all, sound doesn't change if I try to push them.

I agree that the timbre is not the most natural, bass is quite good, fast and clean, and is on the upper side of my personal liking quantity wise.

I don't find them very detailed however, there's just a bit of a forced sparkle quantity that is slightly irritating, and it's the first earbud I get that barely reacts to different foams, thick full foams don't do much.

That's for the cons, but overall one could do a lot worse for 8€, they sound pretty good actually.

I just generally find plastic shells to not sound the best, probably material related, the comfort and lightweight aspect is however great.

Don't think I'll get more of them, but this one is a good disposable earbud imo, pairs well with what I generally listen to, like "Art Pepper + Eleven".

The sound is more related to the Toneking TO600 than the BK2, which sounds much fuller and rounder to me. However, my replacement BK2 doesn't sound as good as the one I had before, has a bit of shouty mids :/

Maybe needs burn-in or it's driver variation.


----------



## Mhog55

So I'm thinking perhaps going with all mmcx buds might not be the best option. Mmcx seems quite delicate. My reason was because I have two devices I like to use. My V40 has only 3.5mm single ended option, but my dap also has the 2.5mm trrs balanced option. I figured one of each cable would suffice, and I'd just switch them out, depending on which source I wanted to use. So I guess I'm just going to get a few more balanced cables and keep them attached. 
I have a few questions I'd like to ask. The first one is how people are storing their buds. I don't like wrapping my cables up. I don't really want to hang them, as I don't want that tension pulling on the cable because the buds are obviously heavier. My 2nd question I'd like to ask is - what are some of your favorite sub 100 dollar buds, that have a permanently attached 2.5mm balanced cable? I'm open to slightly more expensive buds as well. I prefer buds that's are relatively well rounded for all genres, but more specifically - hard rock music. I know I've asked this previously, but there are so many different buds, it can surely make your head spin.


----------



## seanc6441

jenkinsontherun said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I am looking for an earbud with pk shell and sounds good without foam.
> 
> ...


Have you tried a pk shell bud with foams? I can completely understand not adapting to mx500 + foam as it is quiet bulky for mid-small ears.

Pk shell on the other hand just seems to fit right, even with foams its not bulky.

Alternatively you could get a warm sounding pk bud and use the very thin foams or foamless.

But most stock tuned earbuds sound poor foamless as they need to foam to give a slightly seal for bass response and to dampen the treble slightly.


----------



## seanc6441

citral23 said:


> Finally received the ry4s, I have no problem with the fit at all, sound doesn't change if I try to push them.
> 
> I agree that the timbre is not the most natural, bass is quite good, fast and clean, and is on the upper side of my personal liking quantity wise.
> 
> ...


I really dont think its the plastic but possibly the shell dimensions and ports but not saying you are wrong, mainly I just think its the inherant characteristic of many 15.6mm drivers to have peaks and dips in certain areas, usually  in the mid bass, low mids and presence region.

Its rare to  find earbud drivers with minimal peaks and yet good extension thats not just over dampened.


----------



## robar (Dec 10, 2019)

citral23 said:


> Finally received the ry4s, I have no problem with the fit at all, sound doesn't change if I try to push them.
> 
> I agree that the timbre is not the most natural, bass is quite good, fast and clean, and is on the upper side of my personal liking quantity wise.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your impressions  So I think we agree in most points, apart from the fact that you prefer brighter sound compared to me (might be partly due to different sources or ear shapes really). If the BK2 sounds fuller and rounder, that's very promising for me. Sad to hear about the second copy, these cheap mass produced buds tend to have quite random QC, especially from in house products from bigger stores on Ali. Do you know any brands that have more trustworthy QC? Maybe Penon, Toneking, Willsound? (I dont have experience with them just guessing)



seanc6441 said:


> I really dont think its the plastic but possibly the shell dimensions and ports but not saying you are wrong, mainly I just think its the inherant characteristic of many 15.6mm drivers to have peaks and dips in certain areas, usually  in the mid bass, low mids and presence region.
> Its rare to  find earbud drivers with minimal peaks and yet good extension thats not just over dampened.


I agree mostly, in my opinion it's more about putting cheap generic drivers in cheap generic plastic shells with rushed/inexperienced tuning. More expensive buds can afford to be designed in a more holistic way where every component is tailored to each other. I'm not sure if metal has any inherent benefit over plastic in terms of sound, but I'm not experienced at all in this topic. My guess is that the reason why metal is preferred in more expensive buds is more about maintaining consistent quality + better precision by the manufacturing process, being sturdy and well, looking/feeling more expensive.


----------



## nick n

palestofwhite said:


> Just when I thought Kube V1 couldn't get any better, the Kube Plus by Willy are back in my hands after countless weeks of waiting. Well worth it.


I've been rapidly losing track of the thread here it moves too fast. What happened, did one fail or have issues ?
They are tempting .


----------



## 40760

nick n said:


> I've been rapidly losing track of the thread here it moves too fast. What happened, did one fail or have issues ?
> They are tempting .



No technical issues besides needing some cosmetic fixes from Willy due to my own negligence. I might have snagged another pair before the year ends if not my for my travel plans.


----------



## alvinlim2010

Anyone owns the Moondrop Chaconne? I had the pleasure to audition it in JP at Yodabashi (quite surprised they featured it) and from my brief listen it definitely sounds lush and smooth, yet musical at the same time. Treble is in control and overall really good sounding.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 10, 2019)

robar said:


> Thanks for your impressions  So I think we agree in most points, apart from the fact that you prefer brighter sound compared to me (might be partly due to different sources or ear shapes really). If the BK2 sounds fuller and rounder, that's very promising for me. Sad to hear about the second copy, these cheap mass produced buds tend to have quite random QC, especially from in house products from bigger stores on Ali. Do you know any brands that have more trustworthy QC? Maybe Penon, Toneking, Willsound? (I dont have experience with them just guessing)
> 
> 
> I agree mostly, in my opinion it's more about putting cheap generic drivers in cheap generic plastic shells with rushed/inexperienced tuning. More expensive buds can afford to be designed in a more holistic way where every component is tailored to each other. I'm not sure if metal has any inherent benefit over plastic in terms of sound, but I'm not experienced at all in this topic. My guess is that the reason why metal is preferred in more expensive buds is more about maintaining consistent quality + better precision by the manufacturing process, being sturdy and well, looking/feeling more expensive.


Mostly to do with the premium finish and look I'd imagine, which allows them to charge a premium price 

I prefer well made metal earbuds (ones that keep overall weight and fit in mind to make a good design and comfort or a good plastic either. I'd gladly use high quality plastic as an alternative. For instance the VE monk /zen smokey transparent shells are clearly a higher grade of plastic than the majority of mx500 shells and you can tell instantly just by holding them. Stronger and a smoother finish.

I dont even mind the pk shells but even those have better grade ones like shozys uses compared to the $10 ones. The finish is better and the design is slightly more conforming to my ear.

Kinda like how headphones like Senn HD series use high quality plastic and those headphones have great durability and finish.

I think all materials like plastic metal or wood have their merits but tge design and quality is the most important factor.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 10, 2019)

palestofwhite said:


> Sounds like an overall more refined version of Kube V1 with a more controlled low end.


Sounds like what is needed to improve the stock sound. The staging needs to be a little wider but thats just about getting the mids-treble balance right. Maybe the plus mod does that with tuning.

Still think it would be interesting to hear a kube driver in an alternative shell that's not got an mx500 design.


----------



## baskingshark

robar said:


> I'm not sure if metal has any inherent benefit over plastic in terms of sound, but I'm not experienced at all in this topic. My guess is that the reason why metal is preferred in more expensive buds is more about maintaining consistent quality + better precision by the manufacturing process, being sturdy and well, looking/feeling more expensive.



I'm pretty sure metal shells make a difference to the sound signature due to resonance effects compared to plastic/wood shells. Nozzle diameter/length, shell shape, damping materials, shell materials, driver location are not by accident, they probably influence sound to some extent.

For example, the TFZ No. 3 (regular, made of plastic) and TFZ No. 3 TI (titanium) have different sound signatures according to some reviewers, despite using the same drivers and being of the same shape. 

But definitely metal and wood shells look more premium and maybe would be of better quality then normal plastic ones.


----------



## Mhog55

baskingshark said:


> I'm pretty sure metal shells make a difference to the sound signature due to resonance effects compared to plastic/wood shells. Nozzle diameter/length, shell shape, damping materials, shell materials, driver location are not by accident, they probably influence sound to some extent.
> 
> For example, the TFZ No. 3 (regular, made of plastic) and TFZ No. 3 TI (titanium) have different sound signatures according to some reviewers, despite using the same drivers and being of the same shape.
> 
> But definitely metal and wood shells look more premium and maybe would be of better quality then normal plastic ones.


I would agree with this, only to a lesser extent than full size cans.


----------



## citral23

robar said:


> Thanks for your impressions  So I think we agree in most points, apart from the fact that you prefer brighter sound compared to me (might be partly due to different sources or ear shapes really). If the BK2 sounds fuller and rounder, that's very promising for me. Sad to hear about the second copy, these cheap mass produced buds tend to have quite random QC, especially from in house products from bigger stores on Ali. Do you know any brands that have more trustworthy QC? Maybe Penon, Toneking, Willsound? (I dont have experience with them just guessing)
> 
> 
> I agree mostly, in my opinion it's more about putting cheap generic drivers in cheap generic plastic shells with rushed/inexperienced tuning. More expensive buds can afford to be designed in a more holistic way where every component is tailored to each other. I'm not sure if metal has any inherent benefit over plastic in terms of sound, but I'm not experienced at all in this topic. My guess is that the reason why metal is preferred in more expensive buds is more about maintaining consistent quality + better precision by the manufacturing process, being sturdy and well, looking/feeling more expensive.



I don't find the ry4s overly bright indeed, still going back to the TO600 after half an hour was a bit of a relief personally, there's something sounding rough in the highs.

The point I don't agree with, but I didn't make it very clear, is that I don't think they are very detailed, but that there's a spike somewhere in the highs contributing to a somewhat forced sparkle, which could be mistaken for resolving power.

I find detail to be a quality that is not entirely  dependent of FR, like  timbre if you like, can be emphazised or hidden by FR tuning tho.


----------



## fonkepala

citral23 said:


> However, my replacement BK2 doesn't sound as good as the one I had before, has a bit of shouty mids :/
> 
> Maybe needs burn-in or it's driver variation.



As someone who's waiting for his BK2 to arrive, this is very concerning. I hope it just needs burn in and not down to sample variation.



Mhog55 said:


> My 2nd question I'd like to ask is - what are some of your favorite sub 100 dollar buds, that have a permanently attached 2.5mm balanced cable? .



I think Blur buds come with a 2.5mm balanced out option. They've been well-praised. The maker (Wong Kuan Wae) can be found in the Earbuds Anonymous FB group.



seanc6441 said:


> But most stock tuned earbuds sound poor foamless as they need to foam to give a slightly seal for bass response and to dampen the treble slightly.



Just wondering...does this also apply to buds that are inherently dark/warm-sounding? e.g. the Kube2, H180, etc.


----------



## citral23

fonkepala said:


> As someone who's waiting for his BK2 to arrive, this is very concerning. I hope it just needs burn in and not down to sample variation.



Don't overthink it, it's still totally recommendable and I enjoy it very, very much, I just think I had an extra good one previously, happens with 20€ stuff, can't have the butter and the money for the butter.


----------



## robar (Dec 11, 2019)

citral23 said:


> I don't find the ry4s overly bright indeed, still going back to the TO600 after half an hour was a bit of a relief personally, there's something sounding rough in the highs.
> 
> The point I don't agree with, but I didn't make it very clear, is that I don't think they are very detailed, but that there's a spike somewhere in the highs contributing to a somewhat forced sparkle, which could be mistaken for resolving power.
> 
> I find detail to be a quality that is not entirely  dependent of FR, like  timbre if you like, can be emphazised or hidden by FR tuning tho.


Yep I noticed that, I forgot to address the detail point.  I only said that in relation to the price, at least I find ry4s ue detailed among my other sub 10usd buds. I can totally imagine that there are better resolving buds for similar price, but I haven't encountered one so far, maybe because I mostly have cheaper buds in the sub 10usd range. Can you name something for similar price that is more detailed? Maybe Shiro Yuki?



baskingshark said:


> I'm pretty sure metal shells make a difference to the sound signature due to resonance effects compared to plastic/wood shells. Nozzle diameter/length, shell shape, damping materials, shell materials, driver location are not by accident, they probably influence sound to some extent.
> For example, the TFZ No. 3 (regular, made of plastic) and TFZ No. 3 TI (titanium) have different sound signatures according to some reviewers, despite using the same drivers and being of the same shape.
> But definitely metal and wood shells look more premium and maybe would be of better quality then normal plastic ones.


Yep I totally agree with different materials having different sound characteristics, I just don't think one is inherently better than the other, it all boils down to the overall design/tuning. I DIY earbuds as a hobby and I well aware of the fact that even tiny things can have big effect on the sound. There are even differences between mx500 shells. For example the chrome shell of the Fengru Silver sounds significantly different compared to regular ones. I guess it's due to the shiny coating inside and out. It adds that typical fengru silver flavour (midbass and upper mid dominant sound) to anything I put into it. First I thought it's just the tuning foam but then I moved the tuning to a regular shell and then it sounded like a normal balanced tuning, so the shell itself must be the source of that character.


----------



## fonkepala (Dec 11, 2019)

Currently at work and listening to the Edifier H180 paired with my Stoner Acoustics UD130 dac/amp. Something about the sound from the H180 that I can't stand. It's not as thick sounding as the SHE3800 but there's a weird peak somewhere that irritates me. After about an hour or so, had to switch to the Kube2. Thick as all get out but at least it's bearable.

Edit: I've narrowed down what I don't like about the H180 sound. Mids and vocals are shouty. Shame, the shells are so comfortable.


----------



## HungryPanda

I do prefer the Edifier H185


----------



## fonkepala

HungryPanda said:


> I do prefer the Edifier H185



Thanks for the input. Why the H185? Better sound or better fit? The shells are very different, I see.


----------



## HungryPanda

I find the Edifier H185 very comfortable so fit is good. Bass is pretty good for an earbud. I would call them L-shaped


----------



## ClieOS (Dec 11, 2019)

Dream of a dream

First, I'll like to thank the fellow earbuds lover from Korea in loaning me this little gem. According to him, this is made by a guy who runs one of the oldest IEM/CIEM studio in the country and a fairly well known audiophile in the local community, under the brand name 'Oren 40'. This is sort of an special project for him to create an earbuds that can rival the CAX Red Dragon by Cypherus Audio, which is said to have been quite well received in Korea. As I was told, this particular earbuds has no official English model name, but simply referred as the 'Dream Sound' in rough translation from Korean.

Build quality wise, it is pretty good but nothing really special on the eyes. It has generic MX500 style plastic housing with chrome finish. Cable is thick with fabric sleeve, which as I was told also comes in a few more colors variations. There is also a selection of plug choice, from 3.5mm single-ended to all the common balanced plugs. I have to admit that I am not a fan of thick cable but luckily the cable on the Dream Sound, while still thick, is still decently soft and wieldable

As far as sound signature goes, it is warmish with exceptional openness and layering, very well textured and sweeten mid-range with quite a good, if not slightly smoothed end-to-end extension. While I won't said it is a mid-centric sound, its vocal is clearly the highlight of the presentation, which makes it excel in most mainstream music. Instruments and classical alike ain't bad either, as technically the earbuds is quite capable in all aspects. All in all, it is an ToTL earbuds that has little to no fault, with a sound that reminiscent that of an Sennheiser open-back full sized with a feeling of calm and relaxed, if not a bit of richness and indulgence.

Now comes the parts that hurt - Firstly, I was told this earbud has a price tag of about US$500. This might not be that surprising, consider it is targeting CAX Red Dragon that is also on that price range. Still, that's a lot of money for just an earbud. While the general price of ToTL earbuds are on the rise, I think the sensible price range at current market should be around US$200 or so, US$300 if you really push it (*this doesn't just apply to Dream Sound or Red Dragon, but ToTL earbuds in general IMO). You will have to be absolutely love the sound of a particular earbud to pay US$500 for it. As much as I am a self-proclaimed earbuds lover, I am not sure any earbuds is worth that much money for me personally. Of course, $500 is still almost nothing when compared to ToTL IEM/CIEM - though that's another story on its own. Secondly, the Dream Sound is not easy to drive with its 600ohm transducer. It is an earbuds that demands a good source, or even an amp. But for anyone who are willing to spend that much money on an earbuds, they probably already own a good source or amp, or two.


----------



## Jsingh4

How are the creative aurvana air??


----------



## fonkepala

Has anyone here tried recabling the JVC/Victor earbuds? Anything to be wary of when disassembling?


----------



## chaiyuta

@ClieOS : The "Dream of a dream" sounds promising. By the way, how about your opinion about Yincrow RW-1000 and OURART QJ21? Also, I heard there are new released chinese earbuds e.g. Bell-Blue, ZEVA Silver King 493Ohm and ZEVAXY 32Ohm, etc.


----------



## subwoof3r

$500 for an earbud ?...




...


----------



## ClieOS

chaiyuta said:


> @ClieOS : The "Dream of a dream" sounds promising. By the way, how about your opinion about Yincrow RW-1000 and OURART QJ21? Also, I heard there are new released chinese earbuds e.g. Bell-Blue, ZEVA Silver King 493Ohm and ZEVAXY 32Ohm, etc.



I already posted impression on both RW-1000 and QJ21 in the past, just search my older post. I have the Bell-Blue for awhile now - It has the hallmark of K's house sound - warm and rich with a sweet vocal, well tuned for mainstream music, very much a lower 1st tier, closely follow the Bell-Ti. It is however not the latest from K's anymore, as they are about to release  the 'Onmyoji', which is meant to be a cheaper edition of Bell-Ti. ZEVA Silver King, for what I know, is the silver cable version of Lord.E. There is also a prototype named the 'fire lord' in development as well. The 32ohm you are referring is probably the SuperFire, now comes as either Prime edition (same tuning as original) or Pro edition (new tuning).


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Thanks to *FAAEAL* for sending me their new *Datura Pro*.

For the price, it does provide a very nice detailed sound, with a wide soundstage.  Bass is there, but it is easy on the ears.  Mids are nice and smooth.

Overall it is a good earbud, plus I really like the storage pouch.  
















--


----------



## HungryPanda

I've been waiting for my Datura Pro for so long, ordered in the Pre sale on October 13th, still not here


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 12, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> $500 for an earbud ?...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's a bit cheaper than the earbud it's made to compete with at least but it seems you are paying the full $500 for the driver tuning and cable rather than the design.

The parts probably cost $25 total. But the effort gone into the tuning is worth $475? Only people who have heard it will know


----------



## oneula

Just got in the Tingo TC400  Mx985 EMX500S this week I got the super shiney gold shells
it's supposed to be an upgrade to the TC200

Out of the box comparison to the TC200 listening to Jacob Karlzon's track Open Waters on Qobuz on my Activo CT-10

They sound is "brighter" than the TC200 and easier to drive definite emphasis on the high and upper range but you can still feel the bass. TC200 "feels" smoother
Easier to drive with a 105db sensitivity versus 95db for the TC200

Not sure which one I prefer as I'll need to burn in the TC400 a bit first but these are both great buys for the price. I saw that the Fengru Tingo TC200 is listed at $4.95 just now. Which makes it definitely a MonkPlus challenger. The TC400 is only $11.99 its a steal at these prices. Not sure about loud rock or EDM as that's not my preferred genre.

Both these seem to make a good match up for my Activo

Here's the specs
TC-400

Brand Name: FENGRU
Style: In-Ear
Communication: Wired
Vocalism Principle: Dynamic
Connectors: 3.5mm
Volume Control: No
Control Button: No
Wireless Type: None
Active Noise-Cancellation: No
Codecs: NONE
Sensitivity: 105dB
Support Memory Card: No
Waterproof: No
With Microphone: No
Model Number: TC400
Is wireless: No
Resistance: 32Ω
Line Length: 1.2m
Plug Type: Line Type
Frequency Response Range: 20-20000Hz
TC-200

tyle: In-Ear
Communication: Wired
Connectors: 3.5mm
Wireless Type: None
Vocalism Principle: Dynamic
Control Button: No
Volume Control: No
Active Noise-Cancellation: No
Function: For Mobile Phone
Function: HiFi Headphone
Plug Type: Line Type
Sensitivity: 95dB
Frequency Response Range: 20-20000Hz
Line Length: 1.2m
Resistance: 16Ω
Waterproof: No
Model Number: TC200
Support Memory Card: No
Support APP: No
Is wireless: No
With Microphone: No
Codecs: NONE
Brand Name: FENGRU
Model number: L029


----------



## chaiyuta

ClieOS said:


> I already posted impression on both RW-1000 and QJ21 in the past, just search my older post. I have the Bell-Blue for awhile now - It has the hallmark of K's house sound - warm and rich with a sweet vocal, well tuned for mainstream music, very much a lower 1st tier, closely follow the Bell-Ti. It is however not the latest from K's anymore, as they are about to release  the 'Onmyoji', which is meant to be a cheaper edition of Bell-Ti. ZEVA Silver King, for what I know, is the silver cable version of Lord.E. There is also a prototype named the 'fire lord' in development as well. The 32ohm you are referring is probably the SuperFire, now comes as either Prime edition (same tuning as original) or Pro edition (new tuning).


How do you rank RW-1000 and QJ21? Are they both a same tier level?


----------



## Jsingh4

@ClieOS did you get your hands on Rose Maria yet.


----------



## ClieOS

chaiyuta said:


> How do you rank RW-1000 and QJ21? Are they both a same tier level?



RW-1000 is about a upper 2nd tier or lower 1st tier to my ears, while QJ21 is around a mid to lower 1st tier. So overall I find QJ21 to be just a little better.



Jsingh4 said:


> @ClieOS did you get your hands on Rose Maria yet.



Not yet. The promised shipping date by Rose is on December 20th, so no one has received his/her Maria yet. They did however told us it should be still on schedule at this point as all the parts have arrived at the factory last week and are currently on assembly.


----------



## Jsingh4

Also can you list few top level 1st tier earbuds, i was going to invest in headphones but i think i can also invest in buds.


----------



## silverfishla

HungryPanda said:


> I've been waiting for my Datura Pro for so long, ordered in the Pre sale on October 13th, still not here


Really?  That’s weird because I ordered it on 11/11 and received mine a week ago.  Maybe check with them?  I like them, they are right up the middle and are a good all rounder.


----------



## brianforever (Dec 12, 2019)

robar said:


> The new version of blue vido (Y-cable) is very flat sounding, but it's achieved by over dampening plus the driver itself can't really keep up with the sound signature, so it sounds quite soft and mellow, almost muffled. The white is very V-shaped. I haven't heard the red so far but I guess it is something in the middle, so it has a bit v-shape but keeps the mids roughly natural. (I guess it would be the most balanced out of the three in a musical sense)



I feel that the most balanced and all rounder is the last released Vido Colour, Black
Not the Blue or the Red..Black having less fatigue, esp useful for long commutes, and White still my fav, due to me being a bass head, as it's just fun using it at home


----------



## rkw

Foams on my Turandot. Tore a couple of donuts getting there, but I think this is the best I've ever done.


----------



## seanc6441

rkw said:


> Foams on my Turandot. Tore a couple of donuts getting there, but I think this is the best I've ever done.


Double foams for a better fit and/or for sonic reasons?


----------



## robar (Dec 12, 2019)

brianforever said:


> I feel that the most balanced and all rounder is the last released Vido Colour, Black
> Not the Blue or the Red..Black having less fatigue, esp useful for long commutes, and White still my fav, due to me being a bass head, as it's just fun using it at home


I haven't tried black unfortunately. Do you have the new blue vido with y-cable or the old one? The new blue is very soft and non-offensive (quite dark too), I didn't particularly like the sound but there was zero fatigue with my copy.
My favorite ultra cheap (less than 4-5usd) balanced/neutral sounding earbud is the blue Qian25, better than any Vido imho, more detailed and much better vocals.


----------



## rkw

seanc6441 said:


> Double foams for a better fit and/or for sonic reasons?


Primarily fit, but honestly I haven't evaluated different foam configurations for sonics yet on the Turandot.


----------



## acroyear (Dec 13, 2019)

I really need more time with these Turandots.  I was frustrated with the bass... But I now think maybe I just need a tighter fit?  Putting just single foams on these was actually not easy!  I think I need to double up.


----------



## Mhog55

Bgvp dx5 -
Just received these today. I have to ask, do these require a significant burn in period to open up? Out of the box, not so good. Really veiled and cloudy - quite boring. Not what I would expect from a bud at this price. They have a muddy congested sound. They seem pretty neutral, but distant. Nothing really pops out. My bk2 kills these imo. I'm hoping it's a matter of burn in. I know a lot of people are keen on burn in, but I can't imagine a significant change after however many hours.


----------



## acroyear (Dec 13, 2019)

Ok.  I think I'm beginning to fall in love with these Turandots.  Out of all the earbuds that I have, these really don't compete well with outside noise.  You really need a nice quiet room with these and they're really beautiful sounding.


----------



## fonkepala

Mhog55 said:


> Bgvp dx5 -
> Just received these today. I have to ask, do these require a significant burn in period to open up? Out of the box, not so good. Really veiled and cloudy - quite boring. Not what I would expect from a bud at this price. They have a muddy congested sound. They seem pretty neutral, but distant. Nothing really pops out. My bk2 kills these imo. I'm hoping it's a matter of burn in. I know a lot of people are keen on burn in, but I can't imagine a significant change after however many hours.



Wow, sorry to hear that. I'd have expected better than that from a usd65 bud


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 13, 2019)

Mhog55 said:


> Bgvp dx5 -
> Just received these today. I have to ask, do these require a significant burn in period to open up? Out of the box, not so good. Really veiled and cloudy - quite boring. Not what I would expect from a bud at this price. They have a muddy congested sound. They seem pretty neutral, but distant. Nothing really pops out. My bk2 kills these imo. I'm hoping it's a matter of burn in. I know a lot of people are keen on burn in, but I can't imagine a significant change after however many hours.



It could.

I'd set it aside and play a burn in file or music at normal listening volume for 50-100 hours and see?


Just got my K's LBB in today. Verified both sides work and on burn in now. Didn't listen to music to get an initial impression like I did the M1 pro. The M1 pro (imo) changed significantly with burn in, from a slightly muddy L shaped signature to a cleaner more balanced one.


----------



## mbwilson111

Mhog55 said:


> Bgvp dx5 -
> Just received these today. I have to ask, do these require a significant burn in period to open up? Out of the box, not so good. Really veiled and cloudy - quite boring. Not what I would expect from a bud at this price. They have a muddy congested sound. They seem pretty neutral, but distant. Nothing really pops out. My bk2 kills these imo. I'm hoping it's a matter of burn in. I know a lot of people are keen on burn in, but I can't imagine a significant change after however many hours.



Have you checked to make sure they are in phase?


----------



## brianforever (Dec 13, 2019)

robar said:


> The new version of blue vido (Y-cable) is very flat sounding, but it's achieved by over dampening plus the driver itself can't really keep up with the sound signature, so it sounds quite soft and mellow, almost muffled. The white is very V-shaped. I haven't heard the red so far but I guess it is something in the middle, so it has a bit v-shape but keeps the mids roughly natural. (I guess it would be the most balanced out of the three in a musical sense)





robar said:


> I haven't tried black unfortunately. Do you have the new blue vido with y-cable or the old one? The new blue is very soft and non-offensive (quite dark too), I didn't particularly like the sound but there was zero fatigue with my copy.
> My favorite ultra cheap (less than 4-5usd) balanced/neutral sounding earbud is the blue Qian25, better than any Vido imho, more detailed and much better vocals.


 
I have both the old Blue (Y with Mic) & the new ones too..was told that the reasons for the different sound signatures is the sometimes deformed tuning foams ( Poor QC) within the shells..so perhaps it's also a batch issues with the popular Blue Vido during the last few years to meet the unwary demand from the masses who are purchasing them

As you can see in the below image, the Blue Vido tuning foam is twice the thickness of the White Vido, so yes all different colored Vido sounds different due to this fact


----------



## Mhog55

assassin10000 said:


> It could.
> 
> I'd set it aside and play a burn in file or music at normal listening volume for 50-100 hours and see?
> 
> ...


About 10 hours in. Hoping to hear some improvement after 20 ish.


----------



## Mhog55

mbwilson111 said:


> Have you checked to make sure they are in phase?


I'm not sure what that means, but I'm hoping you'll tell me.


----------



## assassin10000

Mhog55 said:


> I'm not sure what that means, but I'm hoping you'll tell me.



The drivers could be wired so instead of both moving the same direction (in-phase), they move opposite (out of phase). This makes a very large difference in the sound.

Search youtube for a phase test and listen with a known good pair of buds or iems and you'll immediately get it.

I use this one:


----------



## robar (Dec 13, 2019)

brianforever said:


> I have both the old Blue (Y with Mic) & the new ones too..was told that the reasons for the different sound signatures is the sometimes deformed tuning foams ( Poor QC) within the shells..so perhaps it's also a batch issues with the popular Blue Vido during the last few years to meet the unwary demand from the masses who are purchasing them
> 
> As you can see in the below image, the Blue Vido tuning foam is twice the thickness of the White Vido, so yes all different colored Vido sounds different due to this fact


Haha yes I took this photo, as I was the first person who actually opened up and photographed the insides of new vidos after encountering the differences in sound. Actually the new white is also different slightly compared to old ones, it has a bit thinner tuning foam and sound more v shaped with deeper bass. (I had multiple old white vidos which had almost zero variation in sound, only the new one is different) Btw I use the vido shells/tunings with better drivers, and the differences in tuning persist across different speakers.
Personally I'm getting tired of this vido situation, I  don't think they're worth the lot of talk and theorizing recently, just buy blue qian25 or ry4s or tc200 instead haha



Mhog55 said:


> Bgvp dx5 -
> Just received these today. I have to ask, do these require a significant burn in period to open up? Out of the box, not so good. Really veiled and cloudy - quite boring. Not what I would expect from a bud at this price. They have a muddy congested sound. They seem pretty neutral, but distant. Nothing really pops out. My bk2 kills these imo. I'm hoping it's a matter of burn in. I know a lot of people are keen on burn in, but I can't imagine a significant change after however many hours.


Maybe you got a lemon? Let's hope not, but it's a possibility for sure.


----------



## acroyear

I've been into earbuds maybe a year but still don't know if rubber rings are really something people use on their earbuds, and if they work what they DO and where to get them.  I'm suspecting a slight increase in bass presence would occur if my Turandots were just a teeny bit wider in circumference.  Double foams would be an option, but I can't seem to get two of them on in any satisfactory way. If these had a slight increase more in bass, they would be end game for me.  Anyone here use anything besides foams to tighten earbud fit and boost bass quantity?


----------



## rkw

acroyear said:


> I've been into earbuds maybe a year but still don't know if rubber rings are really something people use on their earbuds, and if they work what they DO and where to get them.  I'm suspecting a slight increase in bass presence would occur if my Turandots were just a teeny bit wider in circumference.  Double foams would be an option, but I can't seem to get two of them on in any satisfactory way. If these had a slight increase more in bass, they would be end game for me.  Anyone here use anything besides foams to tighten earbud fit and boost bass quantity?


Rubber rings increase the diameter, which provides a better fit for some people (foams may also still be needed for air seal). I've received some earbuds that included rings along with foams, but someone here may know of a separate source.

Double foams are tough for everybody. I'm pretty good at fine detail dexterity work and it is still hard for me. But I did manage:


rkw said:


> Foams on my Turandot. Tore a couple of donuts getting there, but I think this is the best I've ever done.


----------



## citral23

rkw said:


> Rubber rings increase the diameter, which provides a better fit for some people (foams may also still be needed for air seal). I've received some earbuds that included rings along with foams, but someone here may know of a separate source.
> 
> Double foams are tough for everybody. I'm pretty good at fine detail dexterity work and it is still hard for me. But I did manage:
> ​



Double foams are not difficult if u use foams that don't tear apart easily like trig-rains, and preform the one that will go on top (fit it, remove it, put the slimmer one, and the one u just removed on top)


----------



## acroyear

rkw said:


> Rubber rings increase the diameter, which provides a better fit for some people (foams may also still be needed for air seal). I've received some earbuds that included rings along with foams, but someone here may know of a separate source.
> 
> Double foams are tough for everybody. I'm pretty good at fine detail dexterity work and it is still hard for me. But I did manage:
> ​



That's exactly what I need to do... Did you do that with the donuts and foams the Turandot came with?  Did you attempt to,  if not what brand of foams are those?  Thanks!


----------



## acroyear

citral23 said:


> Double foams are not difficult if u use foams that don't tear apart easily like trig-rains, and preform the one that will go on top (fit it, remove it, put the slimmer one, and the one u just removed on top)



I'm going to try when I get home the way you said.  The Turandot finish is super slippery metal.  Really not easy for me


----------



## mbwilson111

acroyear said:


> I'm going to try when I get home the way you said.  The Turandot finish is super slippery metal.  Really not easy for me



I am lucky that one set of foams is just right for me to have a proper fit.  Like you said, the Turandot is slippery.  I can feel the foams slide a little while I am putting the buds in my ears. Once in place they feel stable... especially after the metal warms op a bit.


----------



## citral23

mbwilson111 said:


> I am lucky that one set of foams is just right for me to have a proper fit.  Like you said, the Turandot is slippery.  I can feel the foams slide a little while I am putting the buds in my ears. Once in place they feel stable... especially after the metal warms op a bit.



That's because you haven't tried the RW-1000 yet


----------



## mbwilson111

citral23 said:


> That's because you haven't tried the RW-1000 yet



Not sure what your point is?.  I love the Turandot.  I was never planning to get the RW-1000.

Have you seen how many buds I have?  Running out of space.


----------



## citral23

mbwilson111 said:


> Not sure what your point is?.  I love the Turandot.  I was never planning to get the RW-1000.
> 
> Have you seen how many buds I have?  Running out of space.



Not trying to make a point, chill. If I'm not mistaken your husband has it, so you'll get to listen it, it's insanely bright to my ears compared to any other earbud, so I need double foams personally, you both will tell us what you think


----------



## mbwilson111

citral23 said:


> Not trying to make a point, chill. If I'm not mistaken your husband has it, so you'll get to listen it, it's insanely bright to my ears compared to any other earbud, so I need double foams personally, you both will tell us what you think



I actually rarely listen his buds.  If they are insanely bright I am not interested.  He can tell you what he thinks.  I like to spend my listening time just enjoying music with my own stuff.


----------



## acroyear

I'm thinking of cutting a loooong narrow piece of packing tape, and just wrapping it around the circumference of the earbud and putting the foam on afterwards.  Is that crazy?  I feel I just need about a milimeter wider...


----------



## citral23

mbwilson111 said:


> I actually rarely listen his buds.  If they are insanely bright I am not interested.  He can tell you what he thinks.  I like to spend my listening time just enjoying music with my own stuff.



Ok. One of your post that striked me lately was that he didn't tell you he was getting x earphone and you were angry because "people need to talk to each other". Carry on, I don't give a ****, but maybe expose less of your private life on public forums in the future instead of becoming defensive later. Cheers.


----------



## mbwilson111

acroyear said:


> I'm thinking of cutting a loooong narrow piece of packing tape, and just wrapping it around the circumference of the earbud and putting the foam on afterwards.  Is that crazy?  I feel I just need about a milimeter wider...



To me they are like a piece of jewelry... I would hate to damage the finish... Might the glue on the tape react with the finish?   Maybe masking tape would be safer?


----------



## mbwilson111

citral23 said:


> Ok. One of your post that striked me lately was that he didn't tell you he was getting x earphone and you were angry because "people need to talk to each other". Carry on, I don't give a ****, but maybe expose less of your private life on public forums in the future instead of becoming defensive later. Cheers.



LOL, I was never being defensive.  I was disappointed and kind of sad because I was planning to buy a certain iem and then found out he already had... a super deal had come up and he was quicker.  That is all.  It doesn't even matter now... I like earbuds better. At least the deal was had... it was less than half price.


----------



## acroyear

Good point.  I'm going to put all my effort into fitting the double foams.  Packing tape left on there for years will most likely ruin the finish.  They ARE like jewelry, I agree.  Photos don't do them justice.


----------



## mbwilson111

acroyear said:


> Good point.  I'm going to put all my effort into fitting the double foams.  Packing tape left on there for years will most likely ruin the finish.  They ARE like jewelry, I agree.  Photos don't do them justice.



I was kind of surprised to find them so slippery.  I have a couple of shiny plastic buds that don't cause the foams to slip...although, when I am wiggling around any bud to get it seated properly, donut foams will shift every  time for me.  I can only use a donut if it is on top of a full foam... luckily I have only needed to do that on a couple of models... can't remember which ones at the moment.


----------



## assassin10000

acroyear said:


> Good point.  I'm going to put all my effort into fitting the double foams.  Packing tape left on there for years will most likely ruin the finish.  They ARE like jewelry, I agree.  Photos don't do them justice.



VE sells the silicone rings in their $5 foam add on packs iirc.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 13, 2019)

acroyear said:


> I really need more time with these Turandots.  I was frustrated with the bass... But I now think maybe I just need a tighter fit?  Putting just single foams on these was actually not easy!  I think I need to double up.


Try hiegi donut foams from the VE ex pack, really thick and dense, great for bigger ears if seal is the issue. In my opinion the play well with pk shell earbuds and really help to seal but keep the middle relatively open so you dont lose too much clarity.

For me 1 full foam usually gives the best seal because my ears are on the smaller side but I can see how double foams helps for some people.


----------



## acroyear

seanc6441 said:


> Try hiegi donut foams from the VE ex pack, really thick and dense, great for bigger ears if seal is the issue. In my opinion the play well with pk shell earbuds and really help to seal but keep the middle relatively open so you dont lose too much clarity.
> 
> For me 1 full foam usually gives the best seal because my ears are on the smaller side but I can see how double foams helps for some people.



I've heard of Heigi foams.. but the VE ex pack?  Where do I get these please?  Thanks!  One thick foam may be perfect


----------



## wskl

acroyear said:


> I've heard of Heigi foams.. but the VE ex pack?  Where do I get these please?  Thanks!  One thick foam may be perfect



https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=14

Also available on their Aliexpress store but you have to go the the Monk Plus/Lite pages to see that option for the Ex Pack.


----------



## rkw

seanc6441 said:


> Try hiegi donut foams from the VE ex pack


Heigi donuts also on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/HieGi-Middle-Cushions-Earphones-Earbuds/dp/B011AXO90C/


----------



## mbwilson111

rkw said:


> Heigi donuts also on Amazon:
> https://www.amazon.com/HieGi-Middle-Cushions-Earphones-Earbuds/dp/B011AXO90C/



Just be aware that those are still shipping from China so they will not be any faster.


----------



## jant71 (Dec 13, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Just be aware that those are still shipping from China so they will not be any faster.



Actually they are there with Prime/ fulfilled by Amazon if you scroll down and click on the second frequently bought together option that says wx-spc12-b for a cheaper $6.39


----------



## mbwilson111

jant71 said:


> Actually they are there with prime if you scroll down and click on the second frequently bought together option that says wx-spc12-b for a cheaper $6.39



That is weird that the Chinese option came up first.


----------



## acroyear (Dec 13, 2019)

jant71 said:


> Actually they are there with Prime/ fulfilled by Amazon if you scroll down and click on the second frequently bought together option that says wx-spc12-b for a cheaper $6.39



Ordered!  Arrives tomorrow.  They're the full foams, which is actually good because I'm  treble sensitive.  Thanks!


----------



## amit3172

Dear All,

I have been reading this thread for quite some days, and there are 3000 pages!

Recently into Hi-Fi music, I have HiFiMan He400i and VE Zen. I pair them with Sabaj DA3. As I read and also felt (little bit) that Sabaj DA3 does not do justice with the headphones. With that I have ordered Drop THX AAA 789 (coming to me in Feb/Mar 2020)

I normally listen to Bollywood music and am looking for a earbud that can enhance my listening experience like instrument separation/placement, clarity, etc. Not a Bass head but decent bass is ok with me.

Even after reading so much on this thread I couldn't make up my mind on what earbuds I should try. I am looking for two pairs, one which goes with my normal Android phone and 2nd which pairs well with the AMP I have purchased.

Appreciate if anyone can help me, enlighten me.

Regards,

Amit


----------



## golov17

acroyear said:


> I'm going to try when I get home the way you said.  The Turandot finish is super slippery metal.  Really not easy for me


Try it http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161088015064


----------



## acroyear

golov17 said:


> Try it http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161088015064



A really kind member messaged me about using silicone plumbers tape and one thick foam.  I'm going to try that, and update with the results.  I really love these already, so if there isn't any significant advantage I'm just going to use them as is.  They're really incredible in clarity and musicality already.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 14, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Have you seen how many buds I have?  Running out of space.


 Never stopped you before 


acroyear said:


> I'm thinking of cutting a loooong narrow piece of packing tape, and just wrapping it around the circumference of the earbud and putting the foam on afterwards.  Is that crazy?  I feel I just need about a milimeter wider...


I've done it but it's not always successful in improving the seal. I really think you should try out the VE thick donuts from the VE expack. My mistake earlier I called them hiegi donuts, those are different and not as sealing IMO. Get the VE ex pack for its thick donuts instead of hiegis!

Hiegi donuts still have their time and place but if I ever need a thick donut foam for pk shells I always choose VE expack donuts first. They are almost bowl shaped (they have more of a structure than most foams thanks to the dense foam used).

Compared to full foams you will get a slightly more clear midrange and the imaging is more centered because of this but the seal is the important factor here so if it seals better for you the bass response will be improved over full foams.


----------



## acroyear

seanc6441 said:


> Never stopped you before
> 
> I've done it but it's not always successful in improving the seal. I really think you should try out the VE thick donuts from the VE expack. My mistake earlier I called them hiegi donuts, those are different and not as sealing IMO. Get the VE ex pack for its thick donuts instead of hiegis!
> 
> ...



I bought the Hiegi foams because I thought the were the VE expack... I gotta find the VE expack somehow.  I really want them now


----------



## mbwilson111

acroyear said:


> I bought the Hiegi foams because I thought the were the VE expack... I gotta find the VE expack somehow.  I really want them now



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32417311324.html

Choose either the ex pack or expack lite...one of the options that says no earphone included...unless you want one.


----------



## fonkepala

My gripe with donuts is how hard they're to put on & also how they often shift around on the earbud shell/face when you're inserting them or trying to get a better seal. Thick full foams are best for my use case.  Not a fan of the porous full foams from VE either.

As a side note, currently listening to the RY4S UE after burn in. They sound great. Impressed with the bass quality and quantity. Details and mids too. No sibilance that i can detect...so far.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

fonkepala said:


> As a side note, currently listening to the RY4S UE after burn in. They sound great. Impressed with the bass quality and quantity. Details and mids too. No sibilance that i can detect...so far.



I had RY4S HI with braided cable, but I would not say that there was good bass, it needed modification, it was possible to drill a bass port.  But recently I tried RY4S Plus MMCX version in which everything is fine with the bass, compared to previous versions


----------



## citral23 (Dec 14, 2019)

fonkepala said:


> My gripe with donuts is how hard they're to put on & also how they often shift around on the earbud shell/face when you're inserting them or trying to get a better seal. Thick full foams are best for my use case.  Not a fan of the porous full foams from VE either.
> 
> As a side note, currently listening to the RY4S UE after burn in. They sound great. Impressed with the bass quality and quantity. Details and mids too. No sibilance that i can detect...so far.



Yes the donuts "slip" on me too, but it's a minor annoyance I'm willing to accept to preserve the trebles of treble-shy earbuds (namely TO200, TO600). The RY4S I'm still unsure, it's not an immediate "this is great" like the nameless, but not a "this is ok, I guess" like the snowlotus 2.0 either, somewhere in-between and I believe it can improve with burn-in.

Once I get my final Chinese packet for 2019 (TO180 and Tomahawk are yet to come) I'm gonna do a mega Roundup review. For what it's worth because we all hear differently, but someone out there might find it valuable.


----------



## robar (Dec 15, 2019)

Alex.Grimm said:


> I had RY4S HI with braided cable, but I would not say that there was good bass, it needed modification, it was possible to drill a bass port.  But recently I tried RY4S Plus MMCX version in which everything is fine with the bass, compared to previous versions


I had similar experience with the RY4S UE. The bass is neutral at best, I can't hear or measure any kind of emphasis or boost in that area, the response is close to flat from 80hz to 1khz at least. The falloff in the lower region is quite slow so it has good definition, but I would prefer about +3-4db below 200hz (concentrated around 50-100hz) for it to sound balanced/realistic to my taste. There might be variations or recently modified tuning, so I can't be 100% sure that they still sound the same. I bought mine in last december.



citral23 said:


> The RY4S I'm still unsure, it's not an immediate "this is great" like the nameless, but not a "this is ok, I guess" like the snowlotus 2.0 either, somewhere in-between and I believe it can improve with burn-in.


Have you tried anything below 20usd that you liked more than ry4s ue? (I know I know, there's bk2 and nameless but I'd be interested more in similar price range alternatives to the ry4s, just curious) If so could you compare them briefly?


----------



## fonkepala

Alex.Grimm said:


> I had RY4S HI with braided cable, but I would not say that there was good bass, it needed modification, it was possible to drill a bass port.  But recently I tried RY4S Plus MMCX version in which everything is fine with the bass, compared to previous versions



The difference between the HI version and the UE version is the cable, right? Maybe that plays a role as well? I wouldn't call the RY4S UE basshead buds, but to me the bass sounds sufficient for the kind of music of music I'm listening to. Certainly not bass-light like the Monk Lite.



citral23 said:


> Yes the donuts "slip" on me too, but it's a minor annoyance I'm willing to accept to preserve the trebles of treble-shy earbuds (namely TO200, TO600). The RY4S I'm still unsure, it's not an immediate "this is great" like the nameless, but not a "this is ok, I guess" like the snowlotus 2.0 either, somewhere in-between and I believe it can improve with burn-in.
> 
> Once I get my final Chinese packet for 2019 (TO180 and Tomahawk are yet to come) I'm gonna do a mega Roundup review. For what it's worth because we all hear differently, but someone out there might find it valuable.



Hmm, interesting. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I'm beginning to think I prefer the sound coming from the RY4S UE over the NiceHCK B40.

Looking forward to your mega review roundup!



robar said:


> I had similar experience with the RY4S UE. The bass is neutral at best, I can't hear or measure any kind of emphasis or boost in that area, the response is close to flat from 80hz to 1khz at least. The falloff in the lower region is quite slow so it has good definition, but I would prefer about +3-4db below 200hz (concentrated around 50-100hz) for it to sound balanced/realistic to my taste. There might be variations or recently modified tuning, so I can't be 100% sure that they still sound the same. I bought mine in last december.



Yes, can't discount the possibility of sample variations and/or revised tuning. Still, it's interesting to know that there are differing opinions regarding the RY4S UE.


----------



## fonkepala (Dec 15, 2019)

amit3172 said:


> Dear All,
> 
> I have been reading this thread for quite some days, and there are 3000 pages!
> 
> ...



I meant to reply to this yesterday but it slipped my mind. I'm no expert, but if I recall correctly Bollywood tunes put emphasis on vocals (mainly female) and rapid percussions. At least the older songs are. Not too sure about current generation of Bollywood songs..maybe as pop-py as anything else. So...perhaps an earbud that emphasises mids and has a bit of rolled off treble (to counter some of the shrill instruments/recording quality)?

You're satisfied with the VE Zen? It could be perfectly up to the job.

Others here might be able to chime in with more substantial input.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 15, 2019)

fonkepala said:


> I meant to reply to this yesterday but it slipped my mind. I'm no expert, but if I recall correctly Bollywood tunes put emphasis on vocals (mainly female) and rapid percussions. At least the older songs are. Not too sure about current generation of Bollywood songs..maybe as pop-py as anything else. So...perhaps an earbud that emphasises mids and has a bit of rolled off treble (to counter some of the shrill instruments/recording quality)?
> 
> You're satisfied with the VE Zen? It could be perfectly up to the job.
> 
> Others here might be able to chime in with more substantial input.


The zen is one of the darkest earbuds available. Considering it sounds dark without foams which most earbuds do not. It definitely has a dip in the upper mids and treble, with prominent mid bass and somewhat elevated low mids. It's not the cleanest nor is it muddy but it has pretty good detail without a hint of sharpness.

If bass impact is not a concern I would advise you to consider the ourart TI7 instead. It has a better refined and detailed midrange and very soft but detailed treble. Like the zen it does not emphasize upper mids but it has a slightly more forward and realistic vocal quality than the zen.

The zen has more bass slightly even without foams but the TI7 has the perfect mids and treble for what you are looking for.

Also the TI7 is $59 and the zen is more than twice that.


----------



## ClieOS

Which generation of Zen are we talking here? The original Zen isn't quite as dark as Zen 2.0.


----------



## amit3172

Thank you so much for your suggestions. Let me check on Ti7.

@ClieOS  I have VE Zen ZOE 3.5 SE (320 Ohm) and VE Standard oyaide 102ssc 0.78mm earphone cable (2.5 trrs). Looks like it is Zen older version.


----------



## ClieOS

amit3172 said:


> Thank you so much for your suggestions. Let me check on Ti7.
> 
> @ClieOS  I have VE Zen ZOE 3.5 SE (320 Ohm) and VE Standard oyaide 102ssc 0.78mm earphone cable (2.5 trrs). Looks like it is Zen older version.



Actually it goes like this Zen > Zen 2.0 > ZOE. Zen 2.0 and ZOE has the same driver, but ZOE with Oyaide cable sounds slightly brighter.


----------



## Solar1971

I know this is a newb question but here goes.
I can see the difference between an "Earbud" and an "IEM"
But what are the advantages / Disadvantages of an Earbud?
They don't look like they would provide as good a quality of sound as an IEM to my eyes.
Is it convenience? Or something else that i'm missing?

Thanks


----------



## baskingshark (Dec 16, 2019)

Solar1971 said:


> I know this is a newb question but here goes.
> I can see the difference between an "Earbud" and an "IEM"
> But what are the advantages / Disadvantages of an Earbud?
> They don't look like they would provide as good a quality of sound as an IEM to my eyes.
> ...



I used to look down on earbuds for years as I'm an IEM guy, I always thought they would have less details and bass than IEMs. Until I tried some buds at the last 11/11 sale and was quite impressed with their technicalities. Now I'm exploring the earbuds rabbithole too.
Compared to IEMs, earbuds generally have poorer isolation (and generally have subbass rolloff) but they have better soundstage than IEMs. So it's like miniheadphones/speakers in your ears when using buds. I like headphones but I can't use them much in my hometown due to the hot humid weather, so buds are an option. Or if you have a ear infection or ear pain with IEMs, buds are a good alternative.

Buds also tend to sound more natural in timbre/tonality than many budget CHIFI multi BA/hybrid IEMs too. But I would stick to homeuse for buds due to the isolation/subbass loss in noisy environments, and some of them have quite high impedance and cannot be easily driven on the go.


----------



## chinmie

baskingshark said:


> I used to look down on earbuds for years as I'm an IEM guy, I always thought they would have less details and bass than IEMs. Until I tried some buds at the last 11/11 sale and was quite impressed with their technicalities. Now I'm exploring the earbuds rabbithole too.
> Compared to IEMs, earbuds generally have poorer isolation (and generally have subbass rolloff) but they have better soundstage than IEMs. So it's like miniheadphones/speakers in your ears when using buds. I like headphones but I can't use them much in my hometown due to the hot humid weather, so buds are an option. Or if you have a ear infection or ear pain with IEMs, buds are a good alternative.
> 
> Buds also tend to sound more natural in timbre/tonality than many budget CHIFI multi BA/hybrid IEMs too. But I would stick to homeuse for buds due to the isolation/subbass loss in noisy environments, and some of them have quite high impedance and cannot be easily driven on the go.



Yes, it's potentially dangerous listening to earbuds in a noisy environment, because we might push the volume too loud to counter the background noise. Some closed IEMs that I've tried and remind me a lot to earbuds sound are the TFZ King and the recent Blon BL03, also the EX1000 and MT100 which both have a bit more leakage in isolation


----------



## GREQ

Solar1971 said:


> I know this is a newb question but here goes.
> I can see the difference between an "Earbud" and an "IEM"
> But what are the advantages / Disadvantages of an Earbud?
> They don't look like they would provide as good a quality of sound as an IEM to my eyes.
> ...


*Pros *of earbuds over IEMs:
• Better tonality from even the cheapest buds (all IEMs that I've ever tried sound wrong to me in one way or another)
• More open/airy sound (bigger difference than going from closed-back headphone to open-back headphone)
• More comfortable (depends on your ear shape - might be more uncomfortable for some)
• Reduced risk of ear damage or infection due to nothing inserted in the ear canal
• More bass!! 
  - this is a big 'pro' for outdoor use - when outdoors, the first thing you lose is bass perception, so very bassy earbuds compete well with moderate outdoor noise
• Foam rolling - use different grades of foam to tune the bud to your taste

*Cons *of earbuds over IEMs:
• reduced isolation - you might be tempted to turn the volume up outdoors and risk ear damage
• micro-details translate better in some IEMs. In some buds, the finer details can get a bit congested. 
• foams might need replacing somewhat frequently - this probably depends greatly on your own personal hygiene ^_^

Problems with both:
• Fit - just like IEMs, you will probably need to try out different combination of foam, or silicone rubber rings to get the best fit and sound


----------



## subwoof3r

fonkepala said:


> My gripe with donuts is how hard they're to put on & *also how they often shift around on the earbud shell/face when you're inserting them or trying to get a better seal*. Thick full foams are best for my use case.


This is also the reason why I don't use donut foams anymore


----------



## Nimweth

Smabat ST-10 arrived today. Took a while to get an acceptable fit. The supplied cable was too springy so used the cable from the M1 Pro and wore the buds cable down with foams plus extra donut foams over the top. Early impressions in this configuration very positive,  the sound is fuller and richer than the M1 Pro without losing the detail and transient attack. I will burn them in before posting further comments and eventually, a review.


----------



## waynes world

Solar1971 said:


> I know this is a newb question but here goes.
> I can see the difference between an "Earbud" and an "IEM"
> But what are the advantages / Disadvantages of an Earbud?
> They don't look like they would provide as good a quality of sound as an IEM to my eyes.
> ...





baskingshark said:


> I used to look down on earbuds for years as I'm an IEM guy, I always thought they would have less details and bass than IEMs. Until I tried some buds at the last 11/11 sale and was quite impressed with their technicalities. Now I'm exploring the earbuds rabbithole too.
> Compared to IEMs, earbuds generally have poorer isolation (and generally have subbass rolloff) but they have better soundstage than IEMs. So it's like miniheadphones/speakers in your ears when using buds. I like headphones but I can't use them much in my hometown due to the hot humid weather, so buds are an option. Or if you have a ear infection or ear pain with IEMs, buds are a good alternative.
> 
> Buds also tend to sound more natural in timbre/tonality than many budget CHIFI multi BA/hybrid IEMs too. But I would stick to homeuse for buds due to the isolation/subbass loss in noisy environments, and some of them have quite high impedance and cannot be easily driven on the go.



+1. And this is the reason I initially got into earbuds (and have never looked back):



> if you have a ear infection or ear pain with IEMs, buds are a good alternative


----------



## Vrač

Just got a set of K.Bear Knights for 12 US$. This will be my return into earbud world after a year of IEMs. Here's to hoping they deliver. I must admit it was either these or the NiceHCK Me80s, because of their 15.4mm drivers.


----------



## citral23

baskingshark said:


> I used to look down on earbuds for years as I'm an IEM guy, I always thought they would have less details and bass than IEMs. Until I tried some buds at the last 11/11 sale and was quite impressed with their technicalities. Now I'm exploring the earbuds rabbithole too.
> Compared to IEMs, earbuds generally have poorer isolation (and generally have subbass rolloff) but they have better soundstage than IEMs. So it's like miniheadphones/speakers in your ears when using buds. I like headphones but I can't use them much in my hometown due to the hot humid weather, so buds are an option. Or if you have a ear infection or ear pain with IEMs, buds are a good alternative.
> 
> Buds also tend to sound more natural in timbre/tonality than many budget CHIFI multi BA/hybrid IEMs too. But I would stick to homeuse for buds due to the isolation/subbass loss in noisy environments, and some of them have quite high impedance and cannot be easily driven on the go.



Even the 8$ earbuds have a much better tonality than 30$ iems indeed, and at 50$ you're already into great, great sound.

Love the soundstage too, and a more physical impact to the sound than iems, can kind of hear the membrane vibrate and produce sound, like speakers. Some people describe it as "tactile", which is another way to describe it.

However going back to my shp9500 lately, I realized how tiny the imaging is on earbuds, while open and airy, it's like listening to a miniature of the stage and instruments. Sounds so much bigger and fuller on headphones.


----------



## acroyear

mbwilson111 said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32417311324.html
> 
> Choose either the ex pack or expack lite...one of the options that says no earphone included...unless you want one.



I got the Hiegi foams today and put them on.. the difference was obvious and a huge step in the right direction.  The bass is fuller and background noise is reduced as well.  I'm thrilled really.  I got some silicon tape to try as well, but I may not do that until I've had some time with my Turandots and these new foams.  It's surprising the slightly thicker foams would make this large an improvement.  I'm happy


----------



## digititus

GREQ said:


> *Pros *of earbuds over IEMs:
> • More bass!!
> - this is a big 'pro' for outdoor use - when outdoors, the first thing you lose is bass perception, so very bassy earbuds compete well with moderate outdoor noise


Have to disagree with this one. IEM's provide substantially more quantitative bass than earbuds IME.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 16, 2019)

digititus said:


> Have to disagree with this one. IEM's provide substantially more quantitative bass than earbuds IME.


Maybe there was a mix up in wording and he meant it the other way around.

Earbuds are not great in any noisy environments and you could damage your hearing easily if you try to compensate for lack of seal by boosting the volume to drown out ambient noise.

Not an IEM guy but maybe earbuds have more bass around 100-200hz and that's about it, with most earbuds being larger drivers usually compared to IEMs and the lack of seal not effecting those frequencies so much.


----------



## GREQ

digititus said:


> Have to disagree with this one. IEM's provide substantially more quantitative bass than earbuds IME.





seanc6441 said:


> Maybe there was a mix up in wording and he meant it the other way around.
> 
> Earbuds are not great in any noisy environments and you could damage your hearing easily if you try to compensate for lack of seal by boosting the volume to drown out ambient noise.
> 
> Not an IEM guy but maybe earbuds have more bass around 100-200hz and that's about it, with most earbuds being larger drivers usually compared to IEMs and the lack of seal not effecting those frequencies so much.


There is no misunderstanding.
To my ears, *earbuds *provide substantially more bass than IEMs and closed-back headphones that are even known to be 'bass-heavy'.
There is no reason to speculate - we all have different ear anatomy so our experiences will naturally differ.
(IEM's I've owned or auditioned: Sennheiser Momentum, KZ ATE/ZS10/ZS10 Pro, Shuoer Tape, Tin P1, RHA T20, Shure SE-846 and a few other lesser known IEMs)

I have directly compared my JVC HA-DX1000 with Sabia V6, and the earbud was bassier. 
Of course, if I take the foam off the Sabia V6, the JVC will be bassier.

If you push your earbuds closer into your ear canals, or simple change the angle of the earbud driver (manually with your hands) you will also be able to hear HUGE amounts of bass too.
It's only fortunate for me that my ear anatomy naturally allows the bud to rest close to this 'very' bass-heavy position.
For outdoor use, I don't need to turn the volume up higher than usual (compared to the volume I would use with closed-back headphones) because I don't miss any of the bass performance.


----------



## genck

GREQ said:


> If you push your earbuds closer into your ear canals, or simple change the angle of the earbud driver (manually with your hands) you will also be able to hear HUGE amounts of bass too..


What are these HUGE bass earbuds, i'd like to try them


----------



## ClieOS

Rose Maria was just sent out from the factory. Will Any luck, I'll get it before end of next week.


----------



## seanc6441

ClieOS said:


> Rose Maria was just sent out from the factory. Will Any luck, I'll get it before end of next week.


This one will have a lot of expectation... Hopefully it will live up to it!


----------



## digititus

GREQ said:


> There is no misunderstanding.
> To my ears, *earbuds *provide substantially more bass than IEMs and closed-back headphones that are even known to be 'bass-heavy'.
> There is no reason to speculate - we all have different ear anatomy so our experiences will naturally differ.
> (IEM's I've owned or auditioned: Sennheiser Momentum, KZ ATE/ZS10/ZS10 Pro, Shuoer Tape, Tin P1, RHA T20, Shure SE-846 and a few other lesser known IEMs)
> ...


I guess I'm lucky, as my ears don't really have a problem with IEM fit or earbuds. To my average ears, there is a night and day difference between the bass output of IEM's compared to buds. It's not even close.


----------



## genck

digititus said:


> I guess I'm lucky, as my ears don't really have a problem with IEM fit or earbuds. To my average ears, there is a night and day difference between the bass output of IEM's compared to buds. It's not even close.


As in IEM's provide MUCH more, right


----------



## baskingshark (Dec 17, 2019)

GREQ said:


> There is no misunderstanding.
> To my ears, *earbuds *provide substantially more bass than IEMs and closed-back headphones that are even known to be 'bass-heavy'.
> There is no reason to speculate - we all have different ear anatomy so our experiences will naturally differ.
> (IEM's I've owned or auditioned: Sennheiser Momentum, KZ ATE/ZS10/ZS10 Pro, Shuoer Tape, Tin P1, RHA T20, Shure SE-846 and a few other lesser known IEMs)
> ...



Actually when you refer to "bass" do you refer to* midbass *or *subbass*? Perhaps we are all referring to different points of reference?

I'm a basshead, and I personally find most earbuds lacking in *subbass* extension and quantity (probably related to poorer isolation of buds, maybe also due to tuning of buds to be more midcentric/bright in general?).  The *subbass* frequencies (which I consider as 60 Hz and below) are usually "felt" rather than "heard" as a visceral rumble. The *midbass* frequencies (which I consider as around 60 - 200 Hz) provides the slam AKA punch AKA thickness in the bass frequencies and are the basslines that one can hear in music when a double bass or bass is playing. Buds can provide quite good *midbass* quantity and "slam" for sure, though I would agree with most of the others that buds in general won't trump most basshead IEMs cause IEMs have a better isolating seal in general (bass frequencies are usually the first to be lost in poorer isolation). Same issue with open back headphones, they generally lack in subbass extension to me.

I've not heard much *subbass* subjectively on my buds in music and objectively with tone generators, they seem to roll off around 60ish Hz, and I'm on the lookout for a earbud with good subbass extension/quantity, anyone can give some recommendations??

Though of course we all hear differently, and have different bass tolerances, different ear anatomies, different music genres (thus requiring different amounts of sub and midbass), different sources, different listening volumes (Fletcher Munson curve affects different frequency loudness with different volumes), so as usual, YMMV.


----------



## digititus

genck said:


> As in IEM's provide MUCH more, right


Right


----------



## genck

digititus said:


> Right


We win


----------



## groucho69

genck said:


> We win


----------



## subwoof3r (Dec 17, 2019)

baskingshark said:


> I'm on the lookout for a earbud with good subbass extension/quantity, anyone can give some recommendations??


Smabat ST-10 
_(currently listening to them at work with my new ES100 MK2)_


----------



## citral23

Clearly, I don't think any earbud can match the sub quantity of a ZS7 tbh, a few earbuds have good extension tho (EBX, RW-1000 for example) and with a bit of eq you can push it.

However I have yet to hear an IEM that has the "physical" mid-bass slam of a TO200, TO600 or some plastic buds, it seems the fact that it's inside the ear canal doesn't allow for the same sound quality to me, it's invariably softer in attack, with no feeling of air being actually, physically moved to me.

The sound of jazz kickdrums invariably makes my day on the TO200, but ymmv.


----------



## Nimweth

subwoof3r said:


> Smabat ST-10
> _(currently listening to them at work with my new ES100 MK2)_


Yes, I agree. ST-10 have great bass (with good fit), Smabat M1 Pro also does well with the Maze labyrinth design.


----------



## pfloyd

I just received the Smabot M1 and are really enjoying it. One of the flattest fr curves I’ve heard with excellent extension on both ends and lots of detail. Cleanses the palate after all these v-shape iems. It’s a breath of fresh air.


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 18, 2019)

Just got around to listening to the K's LBB that came in at the end of last week, they were burning in over the weekend.



They are an unexpectedly dark sounding earbud. Smooth mids and rolled off highs.

Bass rolls off starting around 60hz and becomes barely audible around 35-38hz when testing a frequency sweep at normal (50%) listening volume. Mid-bass is where the bass is most present with an ok amount of bass.

Mids are smooth. Male vocals are more forward than female. Unusual as I was expecting a more balanced sound or even a typical upper mid/lower treble emphasis.

Upper mids and treble seems to taper off smoothly.

It has a completely sibilance free and very smooth dark sound. Probably excellent for night time listening before sleep (or even during  ).


The buds themselves may be the lightest metal shells I've held. They fit well and disappear once in ear. 

My one nitpick is how the cable is held internally, means that you can get some extra noise. The cable has a metal clip pinched to it, to help against snagging and pulling the cable off the driver. Because of that the clip can make some noise against the shell if the cable is jostled.

Also, the black version has a copper cable. It appears the white version is SPC.


----------



## tendou

Fengru silver is effectively using the mx500 shell?


----------



## HungryPanda

tendou said:


> Fengru silver is effectively using the mx500 shell?


 Yes it is


----------



## Mhog55

citral23 said:


> Clearly, I don't think any earbud can match the sub quantity of a ZS7 tbh, a few earbuds have good extension tho (EBX, RW-1000 for example) and with a bit of eq you can push it.
> 
> However I have yet to hear an IEM that has the "physical" mid-bass slam of a TO200, TO600 or some plastic buds, it seems the fact that it's inside the ear canal doesn't allow for the same sound quality to me, it's invariably softer in attack, with no feeling of air being actually, physically moved to me.
> 
> The sound of jazz kickdrums invariably makes my day on the TO200, but ymmv.


SOLD! The 200 is next on my list now. My only concern is fit. All of my buds have a 14.2mm diaphragm, and they fit about perfect with full foams. The 200 has a 15.4mm diaphragm. Only one way to find out I suppose.


----------



## Mhog55

Can anyone compare the Willsound mk2 to the **** Bk2? I've read everything I can find about the mk2, just wondering where this bud kinda fits in - Lower tier / mid tier, and a general idea as to how they sound.


----------



## seanc6441

citral23 said:


> Clearly, I don't think any earbud can match the sub quantity of a ZS7 tbh, a few earbuds have good extension tho (EBX, RW-1000 for example) and with a bit of eq you can push it.
> 
> However I have yet to hear an IEM that has the "physical" mid-bass slam of a TO200, TO600 or some plastic buds, it seems the fact that it's inside the ear canal doesn't allow for the same sound quality to me, it's invariably softer in attack, with no feeling of air being actually, physically moved to me.
> 
> The sound of jazz kickdrums invariably makes my day on the TO200, but ymmv.


The Rose Mojito has some serious mid bass slam too with that dual driver setup. Of course its overall sound signature leaves much to be desired.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 18, 2019)

Mhog55 said:


> Can anyone compare the Willsound mk2 to the **** Bk2? I've read everything I can find about the mk2, just wondering where this bud kinda fits in - Lower tier / mid tier, and a general idea as to how they sound.


It's an earbud that's rough around the edges but has lots of raw power!

Great dynamic sound but the midrange is a bit pedestrian at times. Low treble is nicely in balance though so you won't get any artificial brightness nor is it dark. Vocals are average though on occasion as there is a dip then peak in the 300-2000hz zone so you get some details pushed but the tonality can be a bit off at times IMO. Of course its not severe at all and perfectly listenable on 99% of music just not refined as much as the best midranges ive heard in earbuds.

Definitely atleast mid tier maybe mid + from what I've heard. Off the top of my head I'd say It's in my top 10 but maybe not my top 3. But its also NOT that expensive so its brilliant for the price.


----------



## ValSilva

assassin10000 said:


> It has a completely sibilance free and very smooth dark sound. Probably excellent for night time listening before sleep (or even during  ).


Exactly


----------



## seanc6441

ValSilva said:


> Exactly


You talking about the willsound mk2? I've probably misunderstood the original comment though.


----------



## assassin10000

seanc6441 said:


> You talking about the willsound mk2? I've probably misunderstood the original comment though.



K's LBB


----------



## ValSilva

seanc6441 said:


> You talking about the willsound mk2? I've probably misunderstood the original comment though.


No, @assassin10000 was talking about K's LBB.
I agree with this: K's LBB it's good to sleep with


----------



## Mhog55

seanc6441 said:


> It's an earbud that's rough around the edges but has lots of raw power!
> 
> Great dynamic sound but the midrange is a bit pedestrian at times. Low treble is nicely in balance though so you won't get any artificial brightness nor is it dark. Vocals are average though on occasion as there is a dip then peak in the 300-2000hz zone so you get some details pushed but the tonality can be a bit off at times IMO. Of course its not severe at all and perfectly listenable on 99% of music just not refined as much as the best midranges ive heard in earbuds.
> 
> Definitely atleast mid tier maybe mid + from what I've heard. Off the top of my head I'd say It's in my top 10 but maybe not my top 3. But its also NOT that expensive so its brilliant for the price.


Nice. Thank you. As long as it doesn't sound dark or congested. How would you rate it for hard rock music?


----------



## seanc6441

Mhog55 said:


> Nice. Thank you. As long as it doesn't sound dark or congested. How would you rate it for hard rock music?


Pretty good, it's what id call an all rounder earbud as it can handle most genres but won't specialise in one.


----------



## Mhog55

citral23 said:


> Clearly, I don't think any earbud can match the sub quantity of a ZS7 tbh, a few earbuds have good extension tho (EBX, RW-1000 for example) and with a bit of eq you can push it.
> 
> However I have yet to hear an IEM that has the "physical" mid-bass slam of a TO200, TO600 or some plastic buds, it seems the fact that it's inside the ear canal doesn't allow for the same sound quality to me, it's invariably softer in attack, with no feeling of air being actually, physically moved to me.
> 
> The sound of jazz kickdrums invariably makes my day on the TO200, but ymmv.


Have you compared the to200 to the 150ohm version? Everything I've read would suggest I'd like the 180 better, especially for rock and metal. It sounds like 200 is more analytical in comparison, while the 180 is more fun, engaging, and dynamic with better bass slam.


----------



## SoundChoice

Hi, I'm new to earbuds and a̶m̶ ̶t̶o̶o̶ ̶l̶a̶z̶y̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶d̶ ̶3̶0̶0̶0̶ ̶p̶a̶g̶e̶s̶ I've searched exhaustively and have questions: My non-OEM earbud experience prior to today was the MH755, which is amazing and wonderful. But I gambled on Black Friday and got two pair of Nicehck earbuds with letters and numbers in the model name. Today they arrived. My two questions are stupid ones, the first for which I expect @Slater to post "here dum-dum" images to set me straight. So how exactly are these things worn? I figure the neck of the buds goes in the notch in the lower ear, which means that the driver/speaker is not flush against anything. Coming from IEM-land of implanted nozzles, this feels like it's just resting there out in Siberia, though the sound isn't awful. 

Secondly, what are the colors of foam, and how do they affect sound? I see there are blue and black, some that fully cover the speaker-driver, some that are basically big o-rings of foam. Guessing the foam-rings are more treble, and the full foam covers are to muffle the treble, like T800 dampers. So why are there two colors of each? And is there an easy way to put them on? It's like putting tiny socks on a toy doll, not wanting to rip them.

A fun experiment so far, and I'm not sure they'll take me away from IEMs, but at least now I can say with this new inventory I'm one step closer to being a snobby sneeringly arrogant audiophile*™*


----------



## baskingshark (Dec 18, 2019)

SoundChoice said:


> Hi, I'm new to earbuds and a̶m̶ ̶t̶o̶o̶ ̶l̶a̶z̶y̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶d̶ ̶3̶0̶0̶0̶ ̶p̶a̶g̶e̶s̶ I've searched exhaustively and have questions: My non-OEM earbud experience prior to today was the MH755, which is amazing and wonderful. But I gambled on Black Friday and got two pair of Nicehck earbuds with letters and numbers in the model name. Today they arrived. My two questions are stupid ones, the first for which I expect @Slater to post "here dum-dum" images to set me straight. So how exactly are these things worn? I figure the neck of the buds goes in the notch in the lower ear, which means that the driver/speaker is not flush against anything. Coming from IEM-land of implanted nozzles, this feels like it's just resting there out in Siberia, though the sound isn't awful.
> 
> Secondly, what are the colors of foam, and how do they affect sound? I see there are blue and black, some that fully cover the speaker-driver, some that are basically big o-rings of foam. Guessing the foam-rings are more treble, and the full foam covers are to muffle the treble, like T800 dampers. So why are there two colors of each? And is there an easy way to put them on? It's like putting tiny socks on a toy doll, not wanting to rip them.
> 
> A fun experiment so far, and I'm not sure they'll take me away from IEMs, but at least now I can say with this new inventory I'm one step closer to being a snobby sneeringly arrogant audiophile*™*



Welcome!! Looks like you fell down another big rabbit hole like me from the IEM rabbit hole. Sorry about your wallet in advance!

I asked this question a few weeks ago and these are the helpful responses from the folks here regarding the foam tip colours/donut foams:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3067#post-15321503
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3067#post-15321506
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3067#post-15321507

There's 2 earbud shapes in general:








Yeah as you said, just wear them at the edge of the ear with the cable pointing down. The earpiece doesn't go into the earhole unlike IEMs, just sitting outside the edge. It does feel a bit less secure coming from the world of IEMs, but it will be second nature soon.


----------



## tendou

HungryPanda said:


> Yes it is



Any recommendations of something around that price range that is somewhat neutral, natural and balanced for the price using offset more comfortable shell?

I got some coupon courtesy of AliExpress.


----------



## tendou

seanc6441 said:


> It's an earbud that's rough around the edges but has lots of raw power!
> 
> Great dynamic sound but the midrange is a bit pedestrian at times. Low treble is nicely in balance though so you won't get any artificial brightness nor is it dark. Vocals are average though on occasion as there is a dip then peak in the 300-2000hz zone so you get some details pushed but the tonality can be a bit off at times IMO. Of course its not severe at all and perfectly listenable on 99% of music just not refined as much as the best midranges ive heard in earbuds.
> 
> Definitely atleast mid tier maybe mid + from what I've heard. Off the top of my head I'd say It's in my top 10 but maybe not my top 3. But its also NOT that expensive so its brilliant for the price.


You're talking about mkii here right?

And can you tell what's your favourite 10?


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 19, 2019)

SoundChoice said:


> So how exactly are these things worn? I figure the neck of the buds goes in the notch in the lower ear, which means that the driver/speaker is not flush against anything. Coming from IEM-land of implanted nozzles, this feels like it's just resting there out in Siberia, though the sound isn't awful.
> 
> Secondly, what are the colors of foam, and how do they affect sound? I see there are blue and black, some that fully cover the speaker-driver, some that are basically big o-rings of foam. Guessing the foam-rings are more treble, and the full foam covers are to muffle the treble, like T800 dampers. So why are there two colors of each? And is there an easy way to put them on? It's like putting tiny socks on a toy doll, not wanting to rip them.
> 
> A fun experiment so far, and I'm not sure they'll take me away from IEMs, but at least now I can say with this new inventory I'm one step closer to being a snobby sneeringly arrogant audiophile*™*













For the advanced earbud aficionado:






Foam colors don't matter. Foam density does.

There are iirc about 4 to maybe 6 different density foams. And these are also available as 'donut' style.

In general:

Extra porous/thin = similar to no foams but may retain some bass (cannot verify personally as I never bought these).

Normal thin foams = retains majority of bass but may allow better highs. These can feel itchy.

Normal thicker foams = good all rounders and not itchy.

Extra thick = retains most bass, may muffle mids/highs. Heigi and VE are the thicker ones iirc but I cannot confirm as I haven't purchased them myself.

Extra thin:





Thinner foam:





Normal/thicker:






The 'donut' style of all these allows you to retain bass and keep the mids/highs transparent as it seals around the bud, but keeps the driver exposed to your ear canal. Keep in mind, buds may be tuned with foams in mind.


As far as putting them on, well thats down to dexterity. There are a couple tricks that may help. 
1st pre stretch the foams in multiple directions.
2nd I like to pinch or pull one side of the opening to over on one side and then work the rest of the foam over.
3rd for full foams, if you can't quite get a good pinch/pull, you can blow in the center hole quickly and it may help puff the foam up.

If you decide to double foam, I would recommend using a pre-installed & fully stretched foam over a new one. It can be done but it is a bit difficult. You may have to use tweezers to position the outer foam.


----------



## Mhog55

tendou said:


> You're talking about mkii here right?
> 
> And can you tell what's your favourite 10?


I only have a few buds atm. I have the bgvp dx5 and don't care for it. I have the Smabat M1 incoming. As of right now, my favorite is the **** Bk2.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 19, 2019)

tendou said:


> You're talking about mkii here right?
> 
> And can you tell what's your favourite 10?


Yes the mk2.


No i cant sorry that's why i said its off the top of my head. Meaning it's definitely within the 10 best earbuds ive owned but I couldn't place it anywhere because I've been unable to listen to earbuds much with my tinnitus so cant keep a reliable 'list' of top 10 earbuds. All I can say is its very good and one of the best in its price point.

The mk2 has an interesting driver, it has back ports behind the two driver domes like many headphones do it, not just tge outer dome like most mx500 drivers have. You can actually tune both ports independently, to my knowledge you want both ports to have the same acoustic impedance or resistance to airflow. I found that apply a tiny amount of loose cotton wool into the central port does help control the bass response which is a little bloated in stock tuning (hence why they ship with thin foams as stock to help reduce low end bloat). Anything more than a tiny amount ruins the sound though.


----------



## subwoof3r

seanc6441 said:


> Anything more than a tiny amount ruins the sound though.


Definitely!


----------



## citral23 (Dec 19, 2019)

Mhog55 said:


> Have you compared the to200 to the 150ohm version? Everything I've read would suggest I'd like the 180 better, especially for rock and metal. It sounds like 200 is more analytical in comparison, while the 180 is more fun, engaging, and dynamic with better bass slam.



Hi, I just received the TO180 (the 150 ohms one) and yes it has more bass than the TO200, sounds therefore maybe more "fun" if that's a thing, but definitely quite a bit warmer. Not as warm as the TO600 tho. It has the same kind of physical slam the TO200 has, but with the "bass boost" of my amp turned on if you like. For mids and highs it's difficult to say as I don't have the TO200 at hand and won't before monday, but it seems to me that it's more weighted towards the high mids than the TO200 which is more weighted towards low mids, as pushing the volume results in a bit of discomfort, which doesn't happen on the TO200 (but burn-in might change it a bit, possibly)

The TO180 sounds very, very similar so far to the Tomahawk which was in the same parcel, the latter just being easier to drive (it's a quick impression after a 5 minutes sessions mind you, I'll come back to it this evening, no time for now)


----------



## Mhog55

citral23 said:


> Hi, I just received the TO180 (the 150 ohms one) and yes it has more bass than the TO200, sounds therefore maybe more "fun" if that's a thing, but definitely quite a bit warmer. Not as warm as the TO600 tho. It has the same kind of physical slam the TO200 has, but with the "bass boost" of my amp turned on if you like. For mids and highs it's difficult to say as I don't have the TO200 at hand and won't before monday, but it seems to me that it's more weighted towards the high mids than the TO200 which is more weighted towards low mids, as pushing the volume results in a bit of discomfort, which doesn't happen on the TO200 (but burn-in might change it a bit, possibly)
> 
> The TO180 sounds very, very similar so far to the Tomahawk which was in the same parcel, the latter just being easier to drive (it's a quick impression after a 5 minutes sessions mind you, I'll come back to it this evening, no time for now)


Does the sub bass over power, distort, or bleed into the other frequencies on the 180? And are the high mids too much, causing fatigue and discomfort? I don't want a hot and bright sound, but I also don't want an analytical sound. The mid bass slam is what I'm after - would you say both buds are equal in that regard? I want a warmer sound, but not overly so. My music is primarily hair metal and classic rock. Which would you recommend for this? I'm exchanging an earbud at Penon Audio, and I can't decide between these 2. My primary source will be my Opus#1s balanced.


----------



## tlenbit

Hello guys, I need an advice please!

 I liked monk+ very much. Then I've read that there are better earbuds and tried Edifier H180 (too v shaped for me, loud highs, comfort is the best though), Faaeal iris 32ohm (they are kind of similar - to much highs, little bit painful), RY4S (didn't like thin vocals and also too much highs too), monk lite (didn't like them at all, too unbalanced and unnatural sound). 

And finally yincrow x6 - they are very good, very balanced sound. Little bit too loud shh sounds even with foams, air sounds, metal plates etc are too noticable. The bass, it has power, but not muddy and do not interfere into other frequencies, love it

But still monk+ has noticably better soundstage - distant things are the same, but but close things are much closer in monks. They also sound SO natural! I imagine instruments easily and place them and separate and can pay attention to every instrument. Bass on monks is weak to me, I have to turn bass boost on, using fiio k3, but it still is not the best quality. Monks are good only without foams though, otherwise they get muddy and lack details and sound becomes veiled

Can you please suggest something similar to monks? with not agressive high but with more bass? Highs and mids are perfect for me on monks though

I have only fiio btr3 and fiio k3 to use. Budget is under 200 dollars.


----------



## citral23

Mhog55 said:


> Does the sub bass over power, distort, or bleed into the other frequencies on the 180? And are the high mids too much, causing fatigue and discomfort? I don't want a hot and bright sound, but I also don't want an analytical sound. The mid bass slam is what I'm after - would you say both buds are equal in that regard? I want a warmer sound, but not overly so. My music is primarily hair metal and classic rock. Which would you recommend for this? I'm exchanging an earbud at Penon Audio, and I can't decide between these 2. My primary source will be my Opus#1s balanced.



No, the TO180 is still relatively bass light, it has more quantity than the TO200 for sure but it's still extremely controlled, fast and without bleed or distortion. It might have even more slam actually. My TO200 is at work so can't say for sure, but the TO180 might replace it as a better all-rounder with its decent bass quantity.

For the mids, I can only say it sounds slightly fatiguing at high volume, but might be more appreciable than the TO200 at low and medium vol, the TO200 needs to be cranked up to give it's best.

I use donuts on the TO200 and tried on the TO180, but immediately reverted to full foams, which makes me think the high mids are more prominent, but without a direct comparison it's hard to say.

In any case I find the treble and detail perfectly adequate and it doesn't sound bright to me, just right.


----------



## Mhog55

citral23 said:


> No, the TO180 is still relatively bass light, it has more quantity than the TO200 for sure but it's still extremely controlled, fast and without bleed or distortion. It might have even more slam actually. My TO200 is at work so can't say for sure, but the TO180 might replace it as a better all-rounder with its decent bass quantity.
> 
> For the mids, I can only say it sounds slightly fatiguing at high volume, but might be more appreciable than the TO200 at low and medium vol, the TO200 needs to be cranked up to give it's best.
> 
> ...


Right on. Is it true that the 200 has more air around the instruments, with a wider / deeper Soundstage? Would you describe the 200 as analytical at all, especially compared to the 180? Or would you say they are more similar than different, with the main difference being in the high mids and sub bass? I want to choose the one that sounds best with electric and bass guitars, drums and male vocals. Just looking for a nudge in one direction. I appreciate your replys.


----------



## citral23 (Dec 19, 2019)

Mhog55 said:


> Right on. Is it true that the 200 has more air around the instruments, with a wider / deeper Soundstage? Would you describe the 200 as analytical at all, especially compared to the 180? Or would you say they are more similar than different, with the main difference being in the high mids and sub bass? I want to choose the one that sounds best with electric and bass guitars, drums and male vocals. Just looking for a nudge in one direction. I appreciate your replys.



They are more similar than different, in the way that it's not an analytical clean sound to my hears. It's a bit difficult to describe, but they sound organic, if that means anything. Or lively. With a physical presence. Slightly rough at time in the mids (maybe slightly grainy?) They entertain me endlessly, like some vintage speakers can do. I do appreciate a more analytical, clean sound like the TO400s can have, but the TO180 and 200 definitely have more soul for me.

I'm listening to pink floyd atm on the TO180 and it's pure joy. The drums really benefit from the additional bass and slam, very lively. Guitar is airy and vocals very nice. Bass has some really good weight and texture, but is fast.

I think the TO200 might give more weight to rythm guitars given its low mid presence, but the TO180 highlights solos so... Can't really give you a nudge in one direction except the TO180 is probably a safer bet, don't think the TO200 is for everyone. Metal especially is at risk of sounding thin with the very dry bass.

Can't comment yet on soundstage, will have to wait Monday.


----------



## Mhog55

citral23 said:


> They are more similar than different, in the way that it's not an analytical clean sound to my hears. It's a bit difficult to describe, but they sound organic, if that means anything. Or lively. With a physical presence. Slightly rough at time in the mids (maybe slightly grainy?) They entertain me endlessly, like some vintage speakers can do. I do appreciate a more analytical, clean sound like the TO400s can have, but the TO180 and 200 definitely have more soul for me.
> 
> I'm listening to pink floyd atm on the TO180 and it's pure joy. The drums really benefit from the additional bass and slam, very lively. Guitar is airy and vocals very nice.
> 
> ...


Cool. Thank you


----------



## WendyLi

KB EAR Knight
N52 Magnetic biocomposite diaphragm dynamic driver 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000348335693.html?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.1.31653aa99AiXA2


----------



## tendou

oneula said:


> other than my TY Hi-Z HP150s some of this years CF bud haul(except for Zen Omega) from daily drivers at the top o serious listening high impedance ones like the zen/sun requiring proper amplification
> 
> 1st row L-R:  FAAEAL 64ohm Snow Lotus, Moondrop 32ohm Shiroyuki, FENGRU Tingo 32ohm TC200, Willsound MK2 mmcx
> 2nd row L-R: FAAEAL Datura Pro, Venture Electronic Sun DICE, Venture Electronics Zen2 Omega, Willsound MK32-8


How is snow lotus compared to tc200?


----------



## bjk8kds (Dec 20, 2019)

citral23 said:


> The BK2 is worth every single penny, at 20€ it has a perfectly fine stock cable, and sounds just superb if you want a general, good at everything earbud. (Movies, acoustic and edm, it does it all great) It sounds warm and friendly to the ears, with great bass extension, texture and quantity, but without being slow, the bass keeps up really well with fast tracks, just the right amount of decay imo (I sometimes wish my tonekings would be more like it in the lows)
> 
> Mids are perfect and highs extend well with good detail and clarity but not extraordinary either, it's an overall laid-back and pleasing sound that suits extended sessions very well.
> 
> ...


Wow.. Nice review btw, i searching for all rounder earbud, but i'm on the "basshead" side, not need boomy, not lacking either, need (good) enough bass impact and decay for all genres.
Right now i just had some under $15 earbuds and interesting in bk2 (would buy it in the future), hope the bass, clarity and overall sound signature could satisfy my ears. 
Actually i interested in me80 too, with cheaper price tag, but i think bk2 design more attractive for me.


----------



## subwoof3r (Dec 20, 2019)

Brought to you my best 2019 earbuds synergy/combo  :




Smabat ST-10 (equiped full almost thick foams)

ISN Audio S4 balanced (MMCX reterminated by me)
RadSone ES100 MK2


----------



## baskingshark (Dec 20, 2019)

bjk8kds said:


> Wow.. Nice review btw, i searching for all rounder earbud, but i'm on the "basshead" side, not need boomy, not lacking either, need (good) enough bass impact and decay for all genres.
> Right now i just had some under $15 earbuds and interesting in bk2 (would buy it in the future), hope the bass, clarity and overall sound signature could satisfy my ears.
> Actually i interested in me80 too, with cheaper price tag, but i think bk2 design more attractive for me.



I entered the earbud rabbit hole with the ME80, it's a good set for the price, but I recently got the BK2 and I think the BK2 is an upgrade over the ME80 in technicalities like imaging, instrument separation, clarity, details. Both have quite good midbass thump and decay. The detachable cable of the BK2 is also of better quality than the non detachable cable of ME80 (also good option if you wanna use aftermarket MMCX cables), so if you can chip in the 10 bucks more, I would advise to go for the BK2.



subwoof3r said:


> Brought to you my best 2019 earbuds synergy/combo  :
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice, I have the ST-10 on my wishlist.

How's the subbass extension/quantity on the ST-10? I heard many folks saying it's a bassy earbud, is it comparable to sealed basshead IEMs in the bass department?
And some reviews said the ST-10 has overly recessed mids, do you find it so?

TIA!


----------



## subwoof3r

baskingshark said:


> How's the subbass extension/quantity on the ST-10? I heard many folks saying it's a bassy earbud, is it comparable to sealed basshead IEMs in the bass department?
> And some reviews said the ST-10 has overly recessed mids, do you find it so?


The ST-10 first rev (that I still own, and that you cannot find anymore) was definitely more recessed in the mids especially, other than that, I felt it was also a little more bassy in the subbass department, compared to the second rev (batch) which fixed MMCX issues in both cable and PINs.
That is why I find my synergy extremely good with this S4 cable as it forward a bit more mids, get it even more transparent and brings a little more details in high frequency and tame by a slight margin sub-bass area (typically silver plated cable benefits) 
The subbass can easily be compared to most IEMs (depends which ones) if you get the right seal. Best subbass extension from any earbuds I listened to date (in quantity especially).


----------



## baskingshark (Dec 20, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> The ST-10 first rev (that I still own, and that you cannot find anymore) was definitely more recessed in the mids especially, other than that, I felt it was also a little more bassy in the subbass department, compared to the second rev (batch) which fixed MMCX issues in both cable and PINs.
> That is why I find my synergy extremely good with this S4 cable as it forward a bit more mids, get it even more transparent and brings a little more details in high frequency and tame by a slight margin sub-bass area (typically silver plated cable benefits)
> The subbass can easily be compared to most IEMs (depends which ones) if you get the right seal. Best subbass extension from any earbuds I listened to date (in quantity especially).



Wow thanks for the info, I didn't know there were different versions with different tuning.


----------



## subwoof3r

baskingshark said:


> Wow thanks for the info, I didn't know there were different versions with different tuning.


at least thats what I feel into my two revs, but I really hope that the second batch (rev) is the same for everybody.
There could be some minor tonality variant (as always) between batches, but should not be significant between them (at least between this second rev).
The sound sig of the ST-10 is more like ascending from A to Z (at least to my ears), close to be a L sounding shape.


----------



## stimuz

Do any planar earbuds exist yet?


----------



## HungryPanda

There are small earbud planar drivers available but they are very expensive still


----------



## bjk8kds

baskingshark said:


> I entered the earbud rabbit hole with the ME80, it's a good set for the price, but I recently got the BK2 and I think the BK2 is an upgrade over the ME80 in technicalities like imaging, instrument separation, clarity, details. Both have quite good midbass thump and decay. The detachable cable of the BK2 is also of better quality than the non detachable cable of ME80 (also good option if you wanna use aftermarket MMCX cables), so if you can chip in the 10 bucks more, I would advise to go for the BK2.


Thank in advance for your reply. Makes me more sure to choose bk2. Hehe..


----------



## robar

tlenbit said:


> I have only fiio btr3 and fiio k3 to use.


This is a bit off topic but I'm interested in how do you like the btr3 and k3? Could you compare the two, which one do you like better in terms of sound? (preferably the btr3 in usb mode as well)


----------



## BloodyPenguin

*Happy Holidays from Earbuds Anonymous!  *

_Not creepy at all...  _







--


----------



## darmanastartes

I've been listening to the KBEAR Knight for about two weeks now and I'm not hugely enthused with them. They're bright with a strident upper midrange and a thin lower midrange. I wish they had more bass. Of the earbuds I've heard in the $10-$20 price range (QianYun Qian69, KBEAR Knight, Nicehck ME80) I think the ME80 is the clear winner with the most balanced tuning.


----------



## j4100

darmanastartes said:


> I've been listening to the KBEAR Knight for about two weeks now and I'm not hugely enthused with them. They're bright with a strident upper midrange and a thin lower midrange. I wish they had more bass. Of the earbuds I've heard in the $10-$20 price range (QianYun Qian69, KBEAR Knight, Nicehck ME80) I think the ME80 is the clear winner with the most balanced tuning.



I'm still waiting on mine from 11.11. If they don't turn up by Tuesday, I'll not hear them until the next decade


----------



## baskingshark

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chinese-asian-brand-iem-info-thread.820747/page-1951#post-15372598

This link is my post from the Chinese brands thread, FAAEAL is having a lucky bag on AE now.
Option B is a earbud that according to them is "hot and new" and "more expensive than the price of the lucky bag". Option C is probably the FAAEAL Hibiscus, but since this is a buds thread, won't talk about it further.
I'm guessing option B might be Snow Lotus 64 ohms, Narcissus 2.0 300 ohms or Datura Pro? Possibly the Datura Pro since it is the newest of these? Anyone thinks it's worth a punt?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Recently appeared on sale a lucky bag from FAAEAL $19.9



Spoiler



https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/4000515816813.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.2e183c00Bwm7vC&mp=1


----------



## Trzystatrzy

Hi,
what do you recommend earbuds for $ 80? It is important that the housing is tiny. Yuin type would be perfect. I prefer a warm sound, without sibilation and sharp treble, with a nice bass with a decent rumble, and good detail. The source will be Ibasso DC02.

Cheers!


----------



## Nimweth

My review of the Smabat ST-10 is now available:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-st-10.23718/reviews#review-23056


----------



## BloodyPenguin

My thoughts on the *KB Ear Knight*: 

This is a decent budget earbud.  For around $12USD, you are getting a unique design and a clear sound.  

Bass is light, mids are touch forward and there is a bit of sparkle in the highs.  This can get a tad fatiguing after longer use, as it is tuned to be brighter than warm.  They can also be sibilant with some songs.  Soundstage provides good space. 

Build quality is favorable for this price range.  They feel easy in the ears regardless if they are worn down or over the ear.  

Overall the KB Ear Knight is a different earbud, both in looks and sound tuning.  It is for those who enjoy mids and upper range, but are not looking to spend a lot.
















--


----------



## Chris674

Alex.Grimm said:


> Recently appeared on sale a lucky bag from FAAEAL $19.9


A hot, new product that's worth considerably more than $19.99?. Datura Pro?


----------



## Chris674

@baskingshark I went ahead and jumped in. I'm a Faaeal fan so I'm not too worried. Awesome if it's the Datura Pro but I wouldn't be upset if a Narcissus showed up.


----------



## baskingshark

Chris674 said:


> @baskingshark I went ahead and jumped in. I'm a Faaeal fan so I'm not too worried. Awesome if it's the Datura Pro but I wouldn't be upset if a Narcissus showed up.



Ok I pulled the trigger on the earbud option B too. Keeping fingers crossed it is the Datura Pro.


----------



## Robius

Is it just me or ME80 has one of the best detail retrieval I've ever heard at any price point?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I love the ME80 so much.  Great build,  great looks,  great fit,  good bass,  outstanding female vocals and good detail retrieval. 

It's kind of my go to quiet time bud right now.


----------



## mochill

I'll be getting seahf collection today :-D


----------



## Infoseeker

I finally received my Faaeal Datura pro preorder today. Will make a comment about them later.

They sent me 2 by accident, for some reason. O.o;


----------



## mochill




----------



## Onionlover

Hi, I am looking for a pair of earbuds that has plastic housing (to avoid shock) and with mmcx connectors within the price range of $20. A fairly balanced sound signature. I love Fiio FH7 (treble boosted filter) if that helps.


----------



## assassin10000

Onionlover said:


> Hi, I am looking for a pair of earbuds that has plastic housing (to avoid shock) and with mmcx connectors within the price range of $20. A fairly balanced sound signature. I love Fiio FH7 (treble boosted filter) if that helps.



Most are a mix of metal and plastic. I can't think of one thats all plastic in that price range.

Closest I can think of are the willsound buds (MK3/MK32 & PK16/PK32) with mmcx instead of a cable. But those are about 2x or more than your budget.


----------



## Infoseeker (Dec 24, 2019)

So far the Faaeal Datura Pro, biggest strength is that it has really nice seperation. Bass doesn't bleed into mids. Highs are nice and energetic, doesn't need to be simbilant, to be heard.

Voices are perfect with absolutely no distortion.

Bass is not forward. It not bad, but there are 3 bass ports that can be covered for more bass. Oddly they become V signatured if you cover all 3, ending up simbilant. Maybe just cover 1. Or use medical tape to give a permeable cover.

Again, the amazing feature is the seperation without making the voices sound like it is coming far away. Voices are perfect. Very good natural timbre notes. 

Faaeal like with the Hibiscus, such an amazing cable, way better than the Turandots cable.


----------



## bahamot

X-mas present for me: Turandot in 4.4mm ​


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 24, 2019)

Onionlover said:


> Hi, I am looking for a pair of earbuds that has plastic housing (to avoid shock) and with mmcx connectors within the price range of $20. A fairly balanced sound signature. I love Fiio FH7 (treble boosted filter) if that helps.


Willsound Mk2 MMCX version. It's actually 30usd but it's worth the small jump for a very good all round earbud.


----------



## mochill

Infoseeker said:


> So far the Faaeal Datura Pro, biggest strength is that it has really nice seperation. Bass doesn't bleed into mids. Highs are nice and energetic, doesn't need to be simbilant, to be heard.
> 
> Voices are perfect with absolutely no distortion.
> 
> ...


The graph for dutra pro looks amazing for the bass section . Better extension then all earbuds that I have seen.


----------



## Infoseeker

mochill said:


> The graph for dutra pro looks amazing for the bass section . Better extension then all earbuds that I have seen.



Yeah, the bass transition is perfect. Gives a very nice natural timbre. 

I just wish I had a way to get a better fit with earbuds and my ears. When I press the into the perfect orientation the bass is much better.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Onionlover said:


> Hi, I am looking for a pair of earbuds that has plastic housing (to avoid shock) and with mmcx connectors within the price range of $20. A fairly balanced sound signature. I love Fiio FH7 (treble boosted filter) if that helps.



try RY4S Plus MMCX $7.59 without cable



Spoiler



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.264d33edJZcbIa


----------



## mbwilson111 (Dec 24, 2019)

Onionlover said:


> Hi, I am looking for a pair of earbuds that has plastic housing (to avoid shock) and with mmcx connectors within the price range of $20. A fairly balanced sound signature. I love Fiio FH7 (treble boosted filter) if that helps.





Alex.Grimm said:


> try RY4S Plus MMCX $7.59 without cable
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, the RY4S Plus MMCX is excellent.  Leaves room in the budget to buy a nice cable... or use what you have if you have one already.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Dec 24, 2019)

The $5 cable that they sell in the same store is excellent for the RY4S Plus MMCX. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32977439182.html


----------



## sainteb (Dec 24, 2019)

Greetings. Relatively new to earbuds as I primarily use IEMs. I've been reading this thread for a while and I'm looking for some decent earbuds, preferably with a detachable cable. It seems like the BK2 are quite popular, are there any other alternatives you would recommend under $30? RY4S looks interesting too. As far as sound preferences go, I like relatively neutral headphones.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

sainteb said:


> Greetings. Relatively new to earbuds as I primarily use IEMs. I've been reading this thread for a while and I'm looking for some decent earbuds, preferably with a detachable cable. It seems like the BK2 are quite popular, are there any other alternatives you would recommend under $30? RY4S looks interesting too. As far as sound preferences go, I like relatively neutral headphones.


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32752982333.html


Have always heard people describe them as flat neutral. There is also a PT25 and a KP120. I am pretty sure they may be in your wheelhouse, but others will have to chime in. I am not a neutral fan so them things were mentally swiped left and deleted. 

Ry4S plus MMCX are not neutral, but they do sound good and at $8...


----------



## sainteb

BadReligionPunk said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32752982333.html
> 
> 
> Have always heard people describe them as flat neutral. There is also a PT25 and a KP120. I am pretty sure they may be in your wheelhouse, but others will have to chime in. I am not a neutral fan so them things were mentally swiped left and deleted.
> ...


Thank you. I really like the form of the PT25 actually, I'll try to read a little bit more on them.


----------



## Onionlover

BadReligionPunk said:


> The $5 cable that they sell in the same store is excellent for the RY4S Plus MMCX. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32977439182.html



I actually bought them awhile ago and they went dead on 1 side after like 3 months of usage (it looked so nice though). I am not the most careful user out there so I will get a thicker cable just to be safe.

Oh and thank everyone for the recommendations.


----------



## Raketen (Dec 26, 2019)

Had a stroke of holiday season earbud luck, today found my VE Zen2 that had been missing for almost 3 years, hiding in a box full of smaller empty boxes (actually inside of an even smaller box inside one of the inner boxes) I was keeping for a long forgotten probably asnine reason!

Lesson learned: never store earbuds in boxes in boxes in boxes, or matryoshka dolls, or any other style of nested storage prone to sitting undisturbed in the bottom of a closet for years on end.


----------



## bahamot

Wow, this Turandot really is an eye opener of what earbuds can deliver. Never get the same impression out of Sennheiser MX985.


----------



## mochill

Dutra pro, awesomeness . Bass full , mids full , treble clear . Imaging great as well as soundstage.


----------



## HungryPanda

I want my Datura Pro so bad........... Where is it I wonder


----------



## mochill

On AliExpress


----------



## HungryPanda

I did the presale and I'm still waiting


----------



## genck

HungryPanda said:


> I did the presale and I'm still waiting


they are making sure you get the one that is out of phase


----------



## HungryPanda

genck said:


> they are making sure you get the one that is out of phase


specially wired just to drive me mad


----------



## baskingshark

HungryPanda said:


> I want my Datura Pro so bad........... Where is it I wonder



I think if you order the FAAEAL lucky bag (option B for buds - which I think has a chance of being a Datura Pro @ $19.90), it might even reach you before your preorder does?
I ordered mine 2 days back and it has shipped.

I asked the seller and they refused to reveal to me if it were a Datura Pro =(. Though due to your extensive collection of CHIFI, it's very likely that you already own every product in a lucky/mystery bag from all the AE sellers haha.


----------



## davidmolliere

I am probably late to the party but got the Penon BS-1 home and I like it a lot. I must say out of DX160 those earbuds are really fantastic value for money. The cable is really impressive and the fit is really good they hold perfectly in place and you forget them quickly.


 

Sonically, I actually prefer the BS-1 signature over the more expensive Astrotec Lyra. It’s a full bodied mids with superb bass and most impressive is that treble are very refined as well. This makes for an impressive soundstage and a non fatiguing listen. I’ll be posting a review next week


----------



## seanc6441

davidmolliere said:


> I am probably late to the party but got the Penon BS-1 home and I like it a lot. I must say out of DX160 those earbuds are really fantastic value for money. The cable is really impressive and the fit is really good they hold perfectly in place and you forget them quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> Sonically, I actually prefer the BS-1 signature over the more expensive Astrotec Lyra. It’s a full bodied mids with superb bass and most impressive is that treble are very refined as well. This makes for an impressive soundstage and a non fatiguing listen. I’ll be posting a review next week


The BS1 sound is very nice, the fit is ok and cable weight a little less so...


----------



## davidmolliere

seanc6441 said:


> The BS1 sound is very nice, the fit is ok and cable weight a little less so...



I didn’t find the cable weight to be an issue but I do have big ears so usually better fit than most.


----------



## darmanastartes

My full review of the KB EAR Knight is up on my blog. I stand by my previously posted impressions.


----------



## ClieOS




----------



## BadReligionPunk

So Listening to VUNBUD now and I have to say that its by far the deepest most extended bass I have heard from an earbud. Listening to this phenomenal album right now and I have to say that I'm shocked that they are virtually impossible to find. No Sabia V6 anywhere to be found. V7 is apparently tuned neutral, bleh. Also no willsound MK1 anywhere either. Is there anything out there with more impact then VUNBUD/V6? 

Oh and yea. This album is so dope.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I am just wondering what the top of the mountain is for basshead Earbuds? The VUNBUD/V6(assuming they are the same tuning) is the most Sub bass and mid bass I have heard. I know some of you guys are tuning pros and since most buds seem to use this shell, I figured there was only so much venting and paper tricks to get the differences in signatures. I was thinking that maybe an original design metal shell earbud would be the kings of bass, but I am very limited in earbud knowledge. Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## mochill

The dutra pro is awesome bass , also other are kube V1 v2 , yuin pk1 , shozy xb , docomo, zen v1 ,turnadot ,rose maria??.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

mochill said:


> The dutra pro is awesome bass , also other are kube V1 v2 , yuin pk1 , shozy xb , docomo, zen v1 ,turnadot ,rose maria??.



Any ideas which one of those have the most slam and impact.  Good bass is one thing.  Basshead is another,  and maybe sometimes neither the twain shall meet lol. 
The VUNBUD seem to push as much bass as possible for the shell type.  The mids suffer mightily because of it. They are super fun to listen to instrumental bass heavy genres though.  They can push enough down to 40hz they are still viable for sub bass heavy music. 

I keep thinking that DLC driver all metal shell earbuds from the brand that shall be kept nameless might be the goat with eq.


----------



## mochill

Dutra pro might be too


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Can anybody with Datura and Datura Pro compare them? I had Datura and I couldn't get rid of that thing fast enough. Found it very harsh on female vocals. It did look great and was built like a tank. I just didn't jive with it real good. I also wasn't even trying to thump with buds back then either so didn't even try. I don't even remember it having that much bass either, so never would have thought of it. 

Also was wondering if that Smabat IEM, the first one with the issues was bass dominate?


----------



## cradle emperor

ClieOS said:


>


Hi, Sorry to ask out of the blue, but I pre-ordered the same earbud (Rose Marias) through penon audio on december 5th, with payment, and my order status is still processing. I havent received any emails or updates regarding the order status. I figured I would wait until something changes but I see you've already received your order so I'm wondering if theres something wrong with mine. I dont know who I am supposed to contact to ask for updates. Do you have any ideas?


----------



## ClieOS (Dec 28, 2019)

cradle emperor said:


> Hi, Sorry to ask out of the blue, but I pre-ordered the same earbud (Rose Marias) through penon audio on december 5th, with payment, and my order status is still processing. I havent received any emails or updates regarding the order status. I figured I would wait until something changes but I see you've already received your order so I'm wondering if theres something wrong with mine. I dont know who I am supposed to contact to ask for updates. Do you have any ideas?



I got mine first because I didn't order from Penon, but from Rose Tech. themselves on Nov.11 - the day Maria was first launched and I waited well over a month for it to be made. It was an one-day special for getting the special edition Maria with a much cheaper price and I believe only 30 people ordered. There is also a second batch a few days later, then a general release (which the price goes back to normal). If I am not mistaken, Penon probably is in the general release batch. Currently only the first batch has been shipped, and the second batch is in the process of production while the general release batch is still pending.

Since you order from Penon, they are the only you should contact for update. However, Maria is all hand assembled with custom parts, so everything take time to complete. Be patient, and you will be rewarded - in fact, with one of the best earbuds ever made.


----------



## Raketen

ClieOS said:


> Since you order from Penon, they are the only you should contact for update. However, Maria is all hand assembled with custom parts, so everything take time to complete. Be patient, and you will be rewarded - in fact, with one of the best earbuds ever made.



How do you find the fit/comfort? They almost look like earclip/hook style headphones from the pictures... kept me from impulse preordering at least.


----------



## ClieOS

Raketen said:


> How do you find the fit/comfort? They almost look like earclip/hook style headphones from the pictures... kept me from impulse preordering at least.



Fit is about the same as Mojito / Masya. Not the best as it is, but not the worst either. One I put a silicone ring (*some have been included) over the housing , then foam pad over it, it fits fairly well in my ears. You can probably put a shark fin adapter over it as well, but I prefer foam.


----------



## davidmolliere

cradle emperor said:


> Hi, Sorry to ask out of the blue, but I pre-ordered the same earbud (Rose Marias) through penon audio on december 5th, with payment, and my order status is still processing. I havent received any emails or updates regarding the order status. I figured I would wait until something changes but I see you've already received your order so I'm wondering if theres something wrong with mine. I dont know who I am supposed to contact to ask for updates. Do you have any ideas?



When I check the Penon website it says out of stock for Rose Maria... this one is quite interesting by the way!


----------



## ClieOS




----------



## mochill

Need impression of Maria vs mojito


----------



## davidmolliere

mochill said:


> Need impression of Maria vs mojito



For that we'd need those to be back in stock


----------



## ClieOS (Dec 31, 2019)

mochill said:


> Need impression of Maria vs mojito



Just letting you know that Maria is not a 'Mojito's upgrade' as far as sound signature is concerned. It is more like a 'Masya's upgrade' in its vein.


----------



## baskingshark

Chris674 said:


> @baskingshark I went ahead and jumped in. I'm a Faaeal fan so I'm not too worried. Awesome if it's the Datura Pro but I wouldn't be upset if a Narcissus showed up.



I just got my option B FAAEAL lucky bag and it is indeed the Datura Pro!!! For $19.90 I'm a happy camper. Look forward to your set!


----------



## HungryPanda

Well I never got mine from the pre order after contacting Faaeal so just raised a dispute with aliexpress


----------



## toear

baskingshark said:


> I just got my option B FAAEAL lucky bag and it is indeed the Datura Pro!!! For $19.90 I'm a happy camper. Look forward to your set!



Yes! I'm excited. Mine is inbound!


----------



## baskingshark

HungryPanda said:


> Well I never got mine from the pre order after contacting Faaeal so just raised a dispute with aliexpress



This might turn out to be a blessing in disguise actually. Cause if you get refunded for the datura pro and get the option B lucky bag, it might be cheaper than the preorder price?


----------



## HungryPanda (Dec 31, 2019)

Yes Aliexpress just refunded me so I will, almost half the price of the pre order


----------



## baskingshark (Jan 1, 2020)

HungryPanda said:


> Yes Aliexpress just refunded me so I will, almost half the price of the pre order



Great news. Haha for once u will order a lucky bag and get something you don't already have.

I'm rocking the Datura Pro now and it's probably the best bud i have heard so far other than the BK2 (though I don't own any expensive TOTL buds).

Soundstage not the widest compared to some other buds, but it is midcentric with good technicalities. Great timbre and tonality and great for vocals.

I just wished the subbass was a bit more in quantity and extension (though maybe i'm expecting too much as a basshead). Seems to have a marked roll off below 60 Hz.


----------



## antdroid

ClieOS said:


>



Wow that is much bigger than I thought. Love to hear more impressions of them!


----------



## antdroid

Finally got around to writing a review on the Moondrop Chaconne. Here it is: https://www.antdroid.net/2020/01/moondrop-chaconne-review.html

@csglinux - sorry for this really late impressions. Hope you're still enjoying these too!

I've been using some silicone rings made for earbuds that I picked up on Ali Express a couple months ago. They seem to work pretty well along with a layer of foam. Keeps it in my ear, comfortable and seals well for great sound.


----------



## robar (Jan 1, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Great news. Haha for once u will order a lucky bag and get something you don't already have.
> 
> I'm rocking the Datura Pro now and it's probably the best bud i have heard so far other than the BK2 (though I don't own any expensive TOTL buds).
> 
> ...


That's awesome to hear, as the deal is still on! I'm strongly considering to buy one if it's indeed the Datura pro. Could you compare it to the BK2 or even the B40 in a little bit more detail? Which has more bass quantity, smoother sound sig etc. I realize that all of these are sort of mid centric but I would prefer the one with deeper bass and more accurate timbre with less sibilance/harshness. My gut feeling is that the Faaeal probably has the best QC out of these.  thanks!


----------



## baskingshark

robar said:


> That's awesome to hear, as the deal is still on! I'm strongly considering to buy one if it's indeed the Datura pro. Could you compare it to the BK2 in a little bit more detail? Which has more bass quantity, smoother sound sig etc. I realize that both of these are sort of mid centric but I would prefer the one with more bass and more accurate timbre with less sibilance/harshness. My gut feeling is that the Faaeal probably has better QC though.  thanks!



Yeah I hope the FAAEAL lucky bag thing is still on. Option C of the lucky bag has been confirmed to be the Hibiscus from another thread, also a good deal IMHO, but I've too many single DD IEMs and it looks a bit too basslite for my IEM tastes, so I gave the Hibiscus a miss in the end.

QC wise, the Datura Pro has a non detachable cable, so I'm actually more doubtful of its longevity compared to the detachable one of the BK2. In fact I try not to buy IEMs/earbuds > $20 USD that have non detachable cables as 2 of my midfi IEMs (with non detachable cables) died in the past due to cable failure and I had to reshell/MMCX mod them. I wouldn't have jumped on this earbud lucky bag if it were the normal Datura Pro pricing.

I've only used the Datura Pro for a few hours today, but after doing A/B (both sets using full foams), the BK2 has more bass for sure.
Both are neutralish, but the Datura Pro is more midcentric, with roll off at the subbass. Both have good tonality, no harsh peaks/troughs to my ears. Timbre wise they ain't too far away from each other, as per well tuned buds, but I slightly prefer the BK2 in this area as it has a tinge bit more in note weight.

Maybe the others who have both sets can also chime in?


----------



## robar

baskingshark said:


> Yeah I hope the FAAEAL lucky bag thing is still on. Option C of the lucky bag has been confirmed to be the Hibiscus from another thread, also a good deal IMHO, but I've too many single DD IEMs and it looks a bit too basslite for my IEM tastes, so I gave the Hibiscus a miss in the end.
> 
> QC wise, the Datura Pro has a non detachable cable, so I'm actually more doubtful of its longevity compared to the detachable one of the BK2. In fact I try not to buy IEMs/earbuds > $20 USD that have non detachable cables as 2 of my midfi IEMs (with non detachable cables) died in the past due to cable failure and I had to reshell/MMCX mod them. I wouldn't have jumped on this earbud lucky bag if it were the normal Datura Pro pricing.
> 
> ...


Thanks for you quick answer! So is there any advantage of the Datura Pro over the BK2? You said a bunch of things that the BK2 does better, but is there any selling point of the Datura Pro in terms of sound quality? These roughly cost the same at the moment so they are very interesting alternatives to each other for me.

By QC I was thinking more about actual manufacturing consistency from unit to unit. About the BK2 I read quite a number of complaints from loose mmcx connectors to inconsistent tuning between multiple units etc. Also I had two B40s and none of them were in useable condition when I received them, and I wasn't the only one with problems. I found a number of QC problem feedback about eb2 too. So I would be more comfortable with buying a Faaeal which feels like a more serious/trustworthy manufacturer for me. I have zero problem with fixed cables so that's not a big deal for me.


----------



## csglinux

antdroid said:


> Finally got around to writing a review on the Moondrop Chaconne. Here it is: https://www.antdroid.net/2020/01/moondrop-chaconne-review.html
> 
> @csglinux - sorry for this really late impressions. Hope you're still enjoying these too!
> 
> I've been using some silicone rings made for earbuds that I picked up on Ali Express a couple months ago. They seem to work pretty well along with a layer of foam. Keeps it in my ear, comfortable and seals well for great sound.


Very nice review and better late than never  Seems like we both experienced some initial issues with the fit. But they are beautiful-sounding buds in a very premium finish.

Could you please post a link to those silicone rings you mentioned? They sound like a great idea for the Chaconnes. (Until now, I've been using your double-foam suggestion - donut foam over a full foam.)

P.S. Happy 2020!


----------



## antdroid

csglinux said:


> Very nice review and better late than never  Seems like we both experienced some initial issues with the fit. But they are beautiful-sounding buds in a very premium finish.
> 
> Could you please post a link to those silicone rings you mentioned? They sound like a great idea for the Chaconnes. (Until now, I've been using your double-foam suggestion - donut foam over a full foam.)
> 
> P.S. Happy 2020!



US $4.75  5%OFF | Earphone ear pads Rubber ring of headset size 14.5mm
https://a.aliexpress.com/2ljTaG52

PM me and I can mail you some spares if you want.


----------



## mbwilson111

baskingshark said:


> I'm rocking the Datura Pro now



You have forced me to order the Datura Pro (Lucky Bag).  I had resisted since it was announced....but for $19.69...


----------



## fonkepala

mbwilson111 said:


> You have forced me to order the Datura Pro (Lucky Bag).  I had resisted since it was announced....but for $19.69...



Haha. First purchase of the new year? 

As a side note, can someone compare the Datura Pro to the EA buds?


----------



## mbwilson111

fonkepala said:


> Haha. First purchase of the new year?
> 
> As a side note, can someone compare the Datura Pro to the EA buds?


...or maybe my last?


----------



## csglinux

antdroid said:


> US $4.75  5%OFF | Earphone ear pads Rubber ring of headset size 14.5mm
> https://a.aliexpress.com/2ljTaG52
> 
> PM me and I can mail you some spares if you want.


Thanks for the offer @antdroid - pm on its way....!  Do you use these over the top of a full foam?

BTW, I understand your comment about the difficulty in measuring these earbuds. I use one of these canal extenders. The earbuds rest on the opening in much the same way they'd rest
against the ear-canal opening:


----------



## robar (Jan 1, 2020)

csglinux said:


> Thanks for the offer @antdroid - pm on its way....!  Do you use these over the top of a full foam?
> 
> BTW, I understand your comment about the difficulty in measuring these earbuds. I use one of these canal extenders. The earbuds rest on the opening in much the same way they'd rest
> against the ear-canal opening:



Could you share raw uncompensated measurements in the future? I find it really hard to decipher these kinds of compensated graphs (above 1khz) when the actual compensation curve is unknown to me. Or do you have a graph of the actual compensation itself? This would be really useful to me, thanks


----------



## baskingshark

robar said:


> Thanks for you quick answer! So is there any advantage of the Datura Pro over the BK2? You said a bunch of things that the BK2 does better, but is there any selling point of the Datura Pro in terms of sound quality? These roughly cost the same at the moment so they are very interesting alternatives to each other for me.
> 
> By QC I was thinking more about actual manufacturing consistency from unit to unit. About the BK2 I read quite a number of complaints from loose mmcx connectors to inconsistent tuning between multiple units etc. Also I had two B40s and none of them were in useable condition when I received them, and I wasn't the only one with problems. I found a number of QC problem feedback about eb2 too. So I would be more comfortable with buying a Faaeal which feels like a more serious/trustworthy manufacturer for me. I have zero problem with fixed cables so that's not a big deal for me.



I've only had a day with the Datura Pro, but if I had to choose one, I'll still take the BK2 due to:
1) BK2 has better bass quantity/extension (I'm basshead).
2) The Datura Pro doesn't seem to fit me as well as the BK2.
3) The technicalities (instrument separation, clarity, details, imaging) are better on the BK2, but I suspect I'm also not getting an optimal fit with the Datura Pro.

I think if u want a more midcentric focused tuning, the Datura Pro is better in this area, the lower mids are more forward than the upper mids to me, so it is excellent for male vocals in general. Datura Pro may not be very versatile due to the midcentric focus with bass roll off, BK2 is more suitable for most genres.

QC wise, I read some feedback in the CHIFI thread on headfi that the Hibiscus had some defects on the shell. As for inter unit variation, it is not surprising at the budget CHIFI pricing, so it really is quite luck dependent on what you will get.

The Datura Pro is non detachable, but it does look well built and the cable is very thick and well braided, shell looks sturdy enough for me.



mbwilson111 said:


> You have forced me to order the Datura Pro (Lucky Bag).  I had resisted since it was announced....but for $19.69...



I'm pretty sure you own something higher end than the Datura Pro. Or maybe u can save money by borrowing @HungryPanda 's set to have a listen haha.


----------



## robar (Jan 1, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> I've only had a day with the Datura Pro, but if I had to choose one, I'll still take the BK2 due to:
> 1) BK2 has better bass quantity/extension (I'm basshead).
> 2) The Datura Pro doesn't seem to fit me as well as the BK2.
> 3) The technicalities (instrument separation, clarity, details, imaging) are better on the BK2, but I suspect I'm also not getting an optimal fit with the Datura Pro.
> ...


Thanks for your detailed impressions  I'll probably skip the datura pro then, I prefer a full sound signature that somewhat resembles the experience of headphones/speakers. The mids/highs might be excellent, but if the lower third is lackluster it won't suit my preferences.
Does anyone know if there is something around 20-30usd that is better or at least viable alternative to BK2 that doesn't lack bass and not high impedance? How is the he150pro compared to it btw? Maybe willsounds? Has anyone tried this red black version? http://www.rholupat.com/willsound-mk2-nv1.html


----------



## antdroid

csglinux said:


> Thanks for the offer @antdroid - pm on its way....!  Do you use these over the top of a full foam?
> 
> BTW, I understand your comment about the difficulty in measuring these earbuds. I use one of these canal extenders. The earbuds rest on the opening in much the same way they'd rest
> against the ear-canal opening:



Where did you find the extender? As you probably know, I have the same coupler. I have done some measurements on EARS  with earbuds but I don't think they totally work out right.


----------



## csglinux

robar said:


> Could you share raw uncompensated measurements in the future? I find it really hard to decipher these kinds of compensated graphs (above 1khz) when the actual compensation curve is unknown to me. Or do you have a graph of the actual compensation itself? This would be really useful to me, thanks


Those graphs are raw. No compensation of any kind.



antdroid said:


> Where did you find the extender? As you probably know, I have the same coupler. I have done some measurements on EARS  with earbuds but I don't think they totally work out right.



I just happened to get one included in one of the clone 711 couplers I bought. I think they're available separately on Taobao.


----------



## ClieOS (Jan 2, 2020)

BTR5 balanced out + Maria = Happy camper.


----------



## GREQ

robar said:


> Could you share raw uncompensated measurements in the future? I find it really hard to decipher these kinds of compensated graphs (above 1khz) when the actual compensation curve is unknown to me. Or do you have a graph of the actual compensation itself? This would be really useful to me, thanks


Uncompensated graphs won't make it any easier to read, as the results will still greatly differ from any other measuring system.
The whole point of compensation is to bring the measuring systems closer together. Using uncompensated graphs only sets them further apart. 
Realistically, the only comparison you can ever make is from multiple graphs made by a single system.


----------



## robar (Jan 2, 2020)

csglinux said:


> Those graphs are raw. No compensation of any kind..


Interesting, aren't you using the measurement system's own compensation or something? I see that the overall the graph looks quite natural not skewed like those with the popular compensations, or with "vacuum mics". It's quite similar in the lower and higher regions to what I see usually. But a raw graph should show a big slow bump from 1-2khz peaking at around 3-5khz, we should see something in the middle that resembles the harman curve, a big hump of 5-12dB concentrated on the upper mids/lower treble. I measure with a simple field recorder (tascam dr05) and I get the expected shapes (like Tyll's raw graphs etc) Is it this hump that your gear eliminates? That would be nice actually, but still messes up my mind haha, and the exact amount + range is still unknown.



GREQ said:


> Uncompensated graphs won't make it any easier to read, as the results will still greatly differ from any other measuring system.
> The whole point of compensation is to bring the measuring systems closer together. Using uncompensated graphs only sets them further apart.
> Realistically, the only comparison you can ever make is from multiple graphs made by a single system.


I have to disagree, random compensations that are not disclosed and not used purposefully are just misleading and don't help anybody.  Most types of trendy compensation curves just make a false sense of the actual curve by distoring it heavily, and people who don't have an idea about the processing behind it completely took it for an actual representation of the sound signature. A raw response is the universal language which could be understood easily, just compare it to your favorite target curve like one of the harman curves or the rtings curve. Alternatively the best method would be to compensate with the inverse of an ideal target curve, but in most places they use something completely different like diffuse field or something bundled with the mic. I can quote Tyll's thought on this from innerfidelity, he actually find the raw graphs the most useful and he has a long article analyzing the raw graphs of classic headphones against the harman curve. You can't do anything like this with a vacuum measured plus heavily distorted graph.
"Over time I've come to look much more at the raw, uncompensated curves than the compensated plot, primarily because I know the ID (or DF or FF) compensation curves are not quite correct. When I look at the frequency response plots above with an eye towards understanding its tonal balance, I am primarily looking at the raw response plots and mentally comparing them to what I understand of the Harman Target Response. "
https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-measurements-explained-frequency-response-part-one
https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-measurements-explained-frequency-response-part-two


----------



## GREQ

robar said:


> Interesting, aren't you using the measurement system's own compensation or something? I see that the overall the graph looks quite natural not skewed like those with the popular compensations, or "vacuum mics", similar in the lower and higher regions to what I see usually. But a raw graph should show a big slow bump from 1-2khz peaking at around 3-5khz, we should see something in the middle that resembles the harman curve, a big hump of 5-12dB concentrated on the upper mids/lower treble. I measure with a simple field recorder (tascam dr05) and I get the expected shapes (like Tyll's raw graphs etc) Is it this hump that your gear eliminates? That would be nice actually, but still messes up my mind haha
> 
> 
> I have to disagree, random compensations that are not disclosed and not used purposefully are just misleading and don't help anybody.  Most types of trendy compensation curves just make a false sense of the actual curve by distoring it heavily, and people who don't have an idea about the processing behind it completely took it for an actual representation of the sound signature. A raw response is the universal language which could be understood easily, just compare it to your favorite target curve like one of the harman curves or the rtings curve. Alternatively the best method would be to compensate with the inverse of an ideal target curve, but in most places they use something completely different like diffuse field or something. I can quote Tyll's thought on this from innerfidelity, he actually find the raw graphs the most useful and he has a long article analyzing the raw graphs of classic headphones against the harman curve. You can't do anything like this with a vacuum measured plus heavily distorted graph.
> ...


I have to disagree with your opinion.
Compensated graphs are neither misleading or unhelpful. 
The biggest problem is understanding that there is no standard way to measure earbuds. No existing rig correctly fits an earbud.
Then the following questions arise:
• Do you measure with foam or without form, or both?
• Should there be multiple rig types to account for different methods of how earbuds are worn?
Both of which exponentially spawn more questions that nobody has the answer to.

Also, comparing uncompensated graphs between systems is actually even more misleading, because each system/rig has their own unique faults, leading to different problems in the graphs that make them even less comparable. 
There is no 'actual' representation of the sound signature even in the most expensive systems. The only thing the high-end systems offer is much more accurate repeatability of measurements and higher accuracy of measurements.
How you chose to read them, compensated or uncompensated is purely subjective to your own experiences and what you are used to. There is no right or wrong.

The best solution is one where the earbud foam, pressure around the 'canal'/opening and positions can be tested with accuracy, and a database of measurements created based on this strong foundation of repeatability.
Then it matters little if the graphs are compensated or uncompensated, because graphs will be comparable to a database. Unfortunately, no such solution or database yet exists. 

Remember that graph compensation, especially on these 'hobbyist' level rigs has more to do with 'fixing' microphone, dummy-canal and rig problems than 'distorting the truth' of a measurement.


----------



## robar (Jan 2, 2020)

GREQ said:


> I have to disagree with your opinion.
> Compensated graphs are neither misleading or unhelpful.
> The biggest problem is understanding that there is no standard way to measure earbuds. No existing rig correctly fits an earbud.
> Then the following questions arise:
> ...


this is what I'm not agreeing about - 99% of the compensations I see in review sites, hobbyist etc. doesn't use a compensation that fixes the resonances in the mic, but a compensation that is totally arbitrary or trendy at the moment. (or use mics for iems to measure earbuds) And even with compensation the faults/resonances of the measurement system are often propagated. But in a raw graph with natural seal in my opinion 1-2dB of difference at lets say 10khz is not a deal breaker issue, the general sense of soundsig is preserved. I highly suggest to read the two articles I linked. I don't talk about 100% repeatable and widely comparable scientific measurements, I talk about the kind of measurement graphs that actually say something worthwhile about the sound signature of an earphone - a reviewer's measurement. There will never be a universal solution for earbuds because it's too dependent on the individuals ears etc, but a general sense of how it sounds could be easily achieved. Just by pushing my earbuds with foam against the mic of my tascam I get fairly nice and repeatable results (type of foam has only slight effect here because it's pushed against a flat surface not inside an ear - the seal is formed by pushing) I've just read a comment in another thread where somebody tried to compare the compensated graphs of his favorite  iems to a harman curve and didn't understand what's going on - now this kind of facepalm moments it would be nice to avoid.


----------



## GREQ

robar said:


> this is what I'm not agreeing about - 99% of the compensations I see in review sites, hobbyist etc. doesn't use a compensation that fixes the resonances in the mic, but a compensation that is totally arbitrary or trendy at the moment. .


The problem here, is that I see no evidence of it.
Can you please provide some proof?


----------



## robar (Jan 2, 2020)

GREQ said:


> The problem here, is that I see no evidence of it.
> Can you please provide some proof?


The proof is that you can see very few graphs of earbuds that resembles a proper raw response, or any ideal target curve. They look nothing like measurements from iems/headphones which have well designed mic setups.

I added that probably many people use iem/vacuum (don't know what's the proper term) setups to measure earbuds and that's the main problem, even if the graph itself is raw. Just look at any graph that has a perfectly flat bass response then a heavy roll off towards the treble. Adding an additional compensation on top (which was intended to be used with natural seal measurements) makes things even worse. For example look up the graph of the datura pro on the aliexpress page. Please nobody think that it has a ruler flat bass response like an audeze lol, then a 20dB dip in the midrange, total nonsense to show these kinds of graphs to consumers imho. That's a technical spec but has nothing to do with how it will sound in our ears (in contrast to proper graphs of headphone manufacturers, like massdrop graphs of hd58x) Or compare measurements of iems and earbuds from audiobudget. He is transparent about his process and his raw iem graphs looks nice (similar to rtings raw graphs, apart from the constant dips around 7-8khz) but probably uses the exact same  iem setup with earbuds, and you can see that they look nothing like iem graphs. I can speak of experience that not only the proportions but the landmarks and unique characterestics of the qian69 are totally disappeared from his graph. Of course he stated that his graphs are only comparable to one another etc, but it's still misleading and not useful at all to be honest. And then people start to treat these graphs as proper headphone measurements and start to analyze it at face value, based on skewed data.

So in my opinion a very important step in the earbud field would be to adopt a measuring setup that provides with a natural seal.
Innerfidelity raw graphs are nice and csglinux's graphs are pretty nice too, I just don't understand what happened between 2-6khz haha (I guess it naturally compensates for the bump if it simulates a real ear canal, but it would be nice to reverse engineer exactly what effect it has on the raw response.) I think this is the way to measure buds, to push them against a cylindrical mic about the same diameter as the bud itself or putting it in an artificial ear and posting averaged raw graphs.


----------



## GREQ

I fixed my Sabia V6 'Pearl' with the oxidising cable by adding green foams. 
**toots own horn triumphantly* *


----------



## csglinux

robar said:


> Interesting, aren't you using the measurement system's own compensation or something? I see that the overall the graph looks quite natural not skewed like those with the popular compensations, or with "vacuum mics". It's quite similar in the lower and higher regions to what I see usually. But a raw graph should show a big slow bump from 1-2khz peaking at around 3-5khz, we should see something in the middle that resembles the harman curve, a big hump of 5-12dB concentrated on the upper mids/lower treble.



Two points here:

1) Ok, yes, technically I'm using two compensation curves - one for the sound card (calibrated via loopback) and one for the mic that came in my GRAS RA0045. But both these errors are tiny. If I took those compensations out of the curve, you wouldn't even be able to see the difference with the naked eye.
2) Some compensation curves (e.g. those that InnerFidelity used to use) will _subtract that mid-range bump out_ to make an FR (from a neutral/flat speaker source) look flat at the mic. That bump arises either from the natural resonances of an open ear canal or it's intentially tuned into an in-ear  monitor (one that's designed to seal inside the ear canal and has to compensate for the different resonance inside a sealed ear canal).

Earbuds shouldn't be tuned the same as IEMs, because they don't seal the ear canals like IEMs do. 711 couplers, even with my canal extender, won't do a perfect job of modeling the full extent of an ear canal with a shallow insertion device. But they're not that far off. You could use an anthropometric pinna (GRAS sell them), but even then, there's no guarantee it would match your ear. It's probably slightly better than just using a canal extender though.

The main use of these measurements is just to see the differences between various earbud FRs.


----------



## baskingshark (Jan 2, 2020)

robar said:


> Thanks for your detailed impressions  I'll probably skip the datura pro then, I prefer a full sound signature that somewhat resembles the experience of headphones/speakers. The mids/highs might be excellent, but if the lower third is lackluster it won't suit my preferences.
> Does anyone know if there is something around 20-30usd that is better or at least viable alternative to BK2 that doesn't lack bass and not high impedance? How is the he150pro compared to it btw? Maybe willsounds? Has anyone tried this red black version? http://www.rholupat.com/willsound-mk2-nv1.html



Yeah the Datura Pro lacks quite a bit at the low end especially subbass regions, I'm currently doing some EQ to boost the bass frequencies for general music listening. The mids/trebles are quite sweet and it is a very good set for vocals, classical, jazz. I'm sure those that like a neutralish set will appreciate it.

I don't have any Willsounds, but the HE 150 Pro is more V shaped than the BK2. The HE 150 Pro's midbass thump is quite authoratative and has quite good subbass extension, though IMHO it won't beat basshead IEMs in this area cause of the lack of seal. The treble is slightly more rolled off than the BK2.

I find the mids a bit too recessed on the HE 150 Pro for my liking, the mids are the main reason why I went down the rabbithole of earbuds. There's already a lot of V shaped budget CHIFI IEMs, so the HE 150 Pro sounds more akin to a CHIFI V shaped IEM, except with better tonality/timbre/soundstage. Technicalities wise the BK2 is just slightly better than the HE 150 Pro. Timbre about on par between the 2.
The impedance is quite high on the HE 150 Pro as its name suggests, though it can still be driven by DAPs and smartphones, though you might need a few more rungs on the volume knob. The HE 150 Pro has no detachable cable unlike the BK2, and its non detachable cable is much thinner than the Datura Pro's, so I'm treating it with kid's gloves so that it can last a bit longer at the cable.


----------



## robar (Jan 2, 2020)

csglinux said:


> Two points here:
> 
> 1) Ok, yes, technically I'm using two compensation curves - one for the sound card (calibrated via loopback) and one for the mic that came in my GRAS RA0045. But both these errors are tiny. If I took those compensations out of the curve, you wouldn't even be able to see the difference with the naked eye.
> 2) Some compensation curves (e.g. those that InnerFidelity used to use) will _subtract that mid-range bump out_ to make an FR (from a neutral/flat speaker source) look flat at the mic. That bump arises either from the natural resonances of an open ear canal or it's intentially tuned into an in-ear  monitor (one that's designed to seal inside the ear canal and has to compensate for the different resonance inside a sealed ear canal).
> ...


Thanks for your points. Yes I agree that earbud measurement and ideal target response is finicky to say at least. Though I think earbuds need similar curves compared to headphones, maybe a bit more on the bass and a bit less on the mid-range bump, but not a total flat graph at all. I measure with regular flat condenser mic of the tascam dr-05, and my most natural sounding earbuds all tend to have curves in the mid range that resemble that harman bump, just maybe to a smaller extent (below 10dB probably) I tried to EQ down these bump and measure with the EQ to verify the curve, and if I pull down these bumps too much the vocals become flat and dark. So I still think the overall ideal raw curve should be something like the iem/headphone, it's just not as well defined due to the lack of market/research in this field. (edit: BTW do you have any budget earbuds that you measured? maybe we could compare graphs if we have something in common, just for fun)

Here is a comparison I made. // Please note there is a bit of resonance in my setup at 250hz and 1200hz, there are 2 distinct spots that you can disregard, I draw in with blue how it should look ideally. (I'll try to make a custom compensation to eliminate these, but personally I'm not that bothered by them because I know what to disregard)

Both the blue qian25 and B40 (the one of my collection that probably isn't affected by qc issues)  are sort of smooth neutral/warm earbuds, the blue qian25 is flatter with better bass extension (still average) and with noticeably darker vocals. The B40 has more lively, natural mids with a bit extra on the 4-5khz, plus the bass/mids have a warmth with not a lot of extension. The graphs match my subjective hearing, I only show this to illustrate my point that the midrange bump is indeed there with simple non specialized gear, even if it doesnt show up in your graphs. I heard that someone compared the blue qian25 to the hd58x as a generally similar sounding bud, and if you look at the raw graphs of the hd58x on massdrop they indeed has similar style of bump on the midrange, that slowly starts to build up and maxes out at about 7dB.


----------



## robar

I mean getting usable earbud measurements for modding/tuning purposes is not exactly rocket science, I would argue that it's simpler than measuring iems or headphones. Just get a regular decent quality condenser mic with neutral response that has a suitable size/shape. Portable recorders like tascam, zoom are quite nice. Connect it to an audio interface/line in whatever and it's good for personal use imho. This is my barebones setup, pushing the earbud against the mic of tascam, then I connect the line out of the tascam into my focusrite 2i2.  I measure multiple runs with single sweep, then average them. If I accidentally misplaced the bud it will be very very apparent in the graph so I throw those out. It's repeatable enough for me as I can get the same graph few weeks in between measurements. I don't apply any smoothing, maybe a very small amount would be preferable. That's about it. My experience is that the more natural an earbud sounds to me, the graph better resembles to raw measurements of good headphones/iems, popular target curves etc. I consider this a quite strong evidence and this is why I'm confident about what I'm saying. I just hope it helps somebody and maybe we can have a constructive discussion about this topic that proves to be useful for the earbud community. I'll personally look more into the feaures of REW and learn about the other types of graphs, and continue to build diy buds for the search of ideal sound signatures.


----------



## waynes world

GREQ said:


> I fixed my Sabia V6 'Pearl' with the oxidising cable by adding green foams.
> **toots own horn triumphantly* *



I'm green with envy! They look great (and sound great too!). I'll have to find me some green foams


----------



## GREQ

waynes world said:


> I'm green with envy! They look great (and sound great too!). I'll have to find me some green foams


It's actually temporary (and in truth was meant to be a bit of a joke), the real fix comes out next week(ish)


----------



## Raketen (Jan 2, 2020)

nvm


----------



## csglinux

robar said:


> Thanks for your points. Yes I agree that earbud measurement and ideal target response is finicky to say at least. Though I think earbuds need similar curves compared to headphones, maybe a bit more on the bass and a bit less on the mid-range bump, but not a total flat graph at all. I measure with regular flat condenser mic of the tascam dr-05, and my most natural sounding earbuds all tend to have curves in the mid range that resemble that harman bump, just maybe to a smaller extent (below 10dB probably) I tried to EQ down these bump and measure with the EQ to verify the curve, and if I pull down these bumps too much the vocals become flat and dark. So I still think the overall ideal raw curve should be something like the iem/headphone, it's just not as well defined due to the lack of market/research in this field. (edit: BTW do you have any budget earbuds that you measured? maybe we could compare graphs if we have something in common, just for fun)
> 
> Here is a comparison I made. // Please note there is a bit of resonance in my setup at 250hz and 1200hz, there are 2 distinct spots that you can disregard, I draw in with blue how it should look ideally. (I'll try to make a custom compensation to eliminate these, but personally I'm not that bothered by them because I know what to disregard)
> 
> Both the blue qian25 and B40 (the one of my collection that probably isn't affected by qc issues)  are sort of smooth neutral/warm earbuds, the blue qian25 is flatter with better bass extension (still average) and with noticeably darker vocals. The B40 has more lively, natural mids with a bit extra on the 4-5khz, plus the bass/mids have a warmth with not a lot of extension. The graphs match my subjective hearing, I only show this to illustrate my point that the midrange bump is indeed there with simple non specialized gear, even if it doesnt show up in your graphs. I heard that someone compared the blue qian25 to the hd58x as a generally similar sounding bud, and if you look at the raw graphs of the hd58x on massdrop they indeed has similar style of bump on the midrange, that slowly starts to build up and maxes out at about 7dB.


Interesting stuff. I don't own any of the earbuds you're referring to, so I can't make a direct comparison. Maybe we should try and measure a common model? (A bunch of us, including @antdroid, did this recently for a specific IEM: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ety...phone-for-your-ears-and-your-couplers.908512/ and the agreement amongst those of us with 711 couplers was generally good.)

I've spent a lot of time recently looking at condenser mics for couplers (because they have much lower THD than dynamic/electret mics). In my experience, most are a long way from being flat though. Until you get up to about $500 (the Earthworks mics are very good), you'll notice a lot of roll-offs in the sub-bass and treble (>10 kHz) region, with idiosyncratic peaks and troughs all over the place of a least a few dB. Your mic may be reasonable, but it's tough to verify without a known reference point. Most important question though - what are you using for a coupler?


----------



## robar

csglinux said:


> Interesting stuff. I don't own any of the earbuds you're referring to, so I can't make a direct comparison. Maybe we should try and measure a common model? (A bunch of us, including @antdroid, did this recently for a specific IEM: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ety...phone-for-your-ears-and-your-couplers.908512/ and the agreement amongst those of us with 711 couplers was generally good.)
> 
> I've spent a lot of time recently looking at condenser mics for couplers (because they have much lower THD than dynamic/electret mics). In my experience, most are a long way from being flat though. Until you get up to about $500 (the Earthworks mics are very good), you'll notice a lot of roll-offs in the sub-bass and treble (>10 kHz) region, with idiosyncratic peaks and troughs all over the place of a least a few dB. Your mic may be reasonable, but it's tough to verify without a known reference point. Most important question though - what are you using for a coupler?


I don't need coupler, I push the bud against the barrel of the mic with foams on. As you can see the diameter of the mic barrel matches perfectly the front cover of earbuds, I think its quite similar to how a bud sits in the ear ideally, with even pressure around the edges of the front cover. I'm not sure about exact performance but it should be reasonably good for personal use and for overall comparison of sound signanture in my opinion. I don't have iems unfortunately and they wouldn't work with this setup anyway. This is only for regular earbuds as the diameter match is basically perfect for them.


----------



## csglinux

robar said:


> I don't need coupler, I push the bud against the barrel of the mic with foams on. As you can see the diameter of the mic barrel matches perfectly the front cover of earbuds, I think its quite similar to how a bud sits in the ear ideally, with even pressure around the edges of the front cover. I'm not sure about exact performance but it should be reasonably good for personal use and for overall comparison of sound signanture in my opinion. I don't have iems unfortunately and they wouldn't work with this setup anyway. This is only for regular earbuds as the diameter match is basically perfect for them.


Got it. That should be fine for measuring relative differences between earbuds. But any mid-range bump you see can only arise from the earbud itself, because you'll have no way of accounting for the ear canal resonance. So that particular earbud you showed (the green curve in your graph) must simply have been tuned that way. In practice, that will make that particular earbud a bit more mid-centric, because an open ear canal resonance will tend to boost those frequencies anyway.


----------



## HungryPanda

Just took my Sabia pearls out and they still sound fabulous but I can see a couple of green spots on the cable..........


----------



## robar (Jan 2, 2020)

csglinux said:


> Got it. That should be fine for measuring relative differences between earbuds. But any mid-range bump you see can only arise from the earbud itself, because you'll have no way of accounting for the ear canal resonance. So that particular earbud you showed (the green curve in your graph) must simply have been tuned that way. In practice, that will make that particular earbud a bit more mid-centric, because an open ear canal resonance will tend to boost those frequencies anyway.


Yes this is my point, the midrange bump is a necessary element to have natural sound if you watch  pure raw response. I use these graphs exactly for tuning/modding, this is why raw pure measurements are so useful to me, because I know what to expect  If you take a look at any ideal target curve like harman or rtings for example (or any raw measurements of headphones) it shows a similar midrange bump concentrated around 3-4khz. This way I can check and compare graphs against something that can act as a rough guide and then test how I like it subjectively. Combining this with testing EQ adjusted then re-measured signatures proves to be a really nice way to experiment with tuning for me.


----------



## EagleWings (Jan 2, 2020)

@robar , I think @csglinux agrees with you that 3kHz bump is necessary for the upper-mid to sound correct. There are 2 ways how the 3kHz bump is accounted for in a headphone/earphone:

1) Non-sealing headphones/earphones: For these types of headphones/earphones, the 3kHz bump is not added to the base frequency response of the earphone. But is rather allowed to get naturally reproduced by the open ear-canal resonance, just like how it would for speakers.

2) Ear-canal sealing earphones: For these earphones, the 3kHz bump is artificially added to the base frequency response of the earphones.

From what I understand, most of the earbuds fall under the Type 1 here. So they don’t have a 3kHz bump added to their base frequency response. But if you measured them on a human head simulator, the measurements would actually show a bump at 3kHz. Check out the measurements of earbuds on Innerfidelity. Their measurements actually show the 3kHz for the earbuds. 

The reason the measurements of earbuds from enthusiasts like @csglinux or others don’t show the bump there at 3kHz is because of the limitation of the measuring gear. They are using a 711 coupler and an external adapter/attachment that lets them place the earbud securely on to the rig. If they also had access to a human head and ear simulator like the one Innerfidelity has, their measurements would also show the 3kHz bump.

Now moving on to your Tascam mic. Because the Tascam mic doesn’t look like it simulates a human ear, it shouldn’t show any bump at 3kHz. Which is why @csglinux believes that your B40 must be more mid-centric, because it seems to have a 3kHz bump already tuned into its base frequency response. Now if you were to measure that earbud on a human head and ear simulator, you’d see a very high bump at 4kHz.

Either that, or there is the possibility that the way you are measuring your earbuds with the Tascam, it seems to create a resonant frequency at 4.5kHz.


----------



## csglinux

EagleWings said:


> @robar , I think @csglinux agrees with you that 3kHz bump is necessary for the upper-mid to sound correct. There are 2 ways how the 3kHz bump is accounted for in a headphone/earphone:
> 
> 1) Non-sealing headphones/earphones: For these types of headphones/earphones, the 3kHz bump is not added to the base frequency response of the earphone. But is rather allowed to get naturally reproduced by the open ear-canal resonance, just like how it would for speakers.
> 
> ...


Exactly right. Thank you for saving me a lot of typing


----------



## GREQ

HungryPanda said:


> Just took my Sabia pearls out and they still sound fabulous but I can see a couple of green spots on the cable..........


If only there was someone who could perform perfectly awesome earbud mods for days....


----------



## bjk8kds (Jan 3, 2020)

New year present for myself.. **** bk2
Quite satisfied with the sound signature, low is enough for me, punchy, tight, short decay, but it's bottom borderline bass especially for basshead


----------



## chaiyuta

@ClieOS : How do you rank Rose Maria comparing to OURART QJ21, Bell-Ti, Yincrow RW-1000?


----------



## rangachari

I am curious to know as well on the Rose Maria sound signature with and without amp.  My rig right now is  VEN ZEN 2.0 with Chord Mojo that I am not so satisfied with this combo.


----------



## artpiggo

I got rose maria yesterday and I will test it this evening.


----------



## rangachari

That would be great. I have just crossed my finger. Please give her enough burn in, a minimum of 100 hours before you share her sound signature . She looks beautiful, hope she sounds beautiful too!


----------



## fonkepala

bjk8kds said:


> New year present for myself.. **** bk2
> Quite satisfied with the sound signature, low is enough for me, punchy, tight, short decay, but it's bottom borderline bass especially for basshead



I especially like the BK2 cable. But fit is iffy for me.. seems like the diameter is slightly larger than what I'm used to.



rangachari said:


> I am curious to know as well on the Rose Maria sound signature with and without amp.  My rig right now is  VEN ZEN 2.0 with Chord Mojo that I am not so satisfied with this combo.




What's wrong with that combo.. the Mojo or the Zen?


----------



## rangachari

The ZEN is the problem. The treble is not sparkle. No clearer mids.  And, importantly, everyone knows it is praised for its sound sig everywhere on the net but it cannot boast for the bass response, definitely it is not for the bass heads. With foams, the whole sound get muffled, spoiling the mids even further. Maybe it is a beauty with its siblings amp  Runabout which I do not own nor did I have a chance to test it with.


----------



## bjk8kds

fonkepala said:


> I especially like the BK2 cable. But fit is iffy for me.. seems like the diameter is slightly larger than what I'm used to.


I think the housing diameter is like common housing mx500 etc..
Not comfortable for me but not bad either..


----------



## Raketen (Jan 3, 2020)

rangachari said:


> The ZEN is the problem. The treble is not sparkle. No clearer mids.  And, importantly, everyone knows it is praised for its sound sig everywhere on the net but it cannot boast for the bass response, definitely it is not for the bass heads. With foams, the whole sound get muffled, spoiling the mids even further. Maybe it is a beauty with its siblings amp  Runabout which I do not own nor did I have a chance to test it with.



Personally I prefer without foams but did you try donuts?
idk Runabout - Zen2 do like power, but it doesn't make a night & day difference- I think if you don't like the tonality underdriven you probaby won't  like it properly driven. It will change depending on how they fit your ears too but IMO is a sound signature that flatters certain things but sounds unbalanced with other music... a lot of people enjoy but I would be surpised if very many use only zen2.


----------



## rangachari

I fully agree on the fit.  With donuts, the sound is still muffled to some extent. If you have not noticed it the donuts covers the vents in the back side of the shell which is the reason for the still muffled sound. I fully agree this is one good earbud but it does not cater to my taste, as like I said it does not have clearer mids and sparkle treble. It is only hyped so much on the net, it is not so, at least to me.


----------



## rangachari

And of course, not a reverberating bass like you get it in Yuin PK1. And, again I will not say it is not a good earbud at all, it is a beast with amp, as we know every bud has its own pros and cons.


----------



## robar (Jan 3, 2020)

EagleWings said:


> @robar , I think @csglinux agrees with you that 3kHz bump is necessary for the upper-mid to sound correct. There are 2 ways how the 3kHz bump is accounted for in a headphone/earphone:
> 
> 1) Non-sealing headphones/earphones: For these types of headphones/earphones, the 3kHz bump is not added to the base frequency response of the earphone. But is rather allowed to get naturally reproduced by the open ear-canal resonance, just like how it would for speakers.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much this is very useful stuff. Yes the exact nature of this ear canal resonance in various gears is still a bit of mystery to me. I think my gear does produce a bump but I'm not sure about the exact shape and intensity. if I would EQ an earbud down to a perfectly flat graph with my gear it would sound very dark in the upper mids. The two buds I measured on the image are both relatively nicely tuned good sounding stuff, the blue shell qian25 (red graph) is more neutral overall but the upper mids sound a bit flat and lifeless, so I think an ideal bump with my system should be somewhere in between the two. This is why I'm actively searching for reference points, for example a widely known well tuned bud that I can not only listen to but measure also to see how the proportions are laid out on the graph. (thinking about bk2 or willsound atm) The other useful thing would be to compare measurements of the same earbud model with a more advanced system that I have, and extracting out the difference to pinpoint where are those extra freqs.
@csglinux So do I understand correctly, that in your setup, a technically ruler flat earbud (flat for real, not ideal target-style) should look very similar to a flat line with natural rolloff in the bass? If this is true, it would be really awesome if you could measure a very common cheap earbud for reference, that I or others could use to have a rough estimate on how our setups affect the mids. I thought of something very simple and common below 10usd even below 5usd. I like to use the blue shell qian25 as a baseline because it's quite neutral and very cheap (about 3.7usd) while it has better quality control and sound quality than vidos. But it could be anything cheap if you happen to have something


----------



## headenvelopedinsound (Jan 4, 2020)

Hey all new to the earbud game and just got the Kbear Knight. It's really nice with some eqing. Very mid forward and imho to much mids. With 10band eq I just lowered the 2k down about 3 db and boosted the bass 64/100 both 3db. Sounds great now. Love the sound and for work where I have people talking to me all the time I really like the way I can hear quality sound and everyone around me.

So I looked around and just bought the Smabat M1 Pro as I see it's targeted to be very natural/neutral sound. If you notice in my signature I like Neutral sound for the most part. Any recommendations in the Neutral department or is the M1 Pro a solid choice in that mid-tier price range? I do not have Facebook so MoonBud is out for me... Thanks!


----------



## csglinux

robar said:


> Thank you very much this is very useful stuff. Yes the exact nature of this ear canal resonance in various gears is still a bit of mystery to me. I think my gear does produce a bump but I'm not sure about the exact shape and intensity. if I would EQ an earbud down to a perfectly flat graph with my gear it would sound very dark in the upper mids. The two buds I measured on the image are both relatively nicely tuned good sounding stuff, the blue shell qian25 (red graph) is more neutral overall but the upper mids sound a bit flat and lifeless, so I think an ideal bump with my system should be somewhere in between the two. This is why I'm actively searching for reference points, for example a widely known well tuned bud that I can not only listen to but measure also to see how the proportions are laid out on the graph. (thinking about bk2 or willsound atm) The other useful thing would be to compare measurements of the same earbud model with a more advanced system that I have, and extracting out the difference to pinpoint where are those extra freqs.
> @csglinux So do I understand correctly, that in your setup, a technically ruler flat earbud (flat for real, not ideal target-style) should look very similar to a flat line with natural rolloff in the bass? If this is true, it would be really awesome if you could measure a very common cheap earbud for reference, that I or others could use to have a rough estimate on how our setups affect the mids. I thought of something very simple and common below 10usd even below 5usd. I like to use the blue shell qian25 as a baseline because it's quite neutral and very cheap (about 3.7usd) while it has better quality control and sound quality than vidos. But it could be anything cheap if you happen to have something


My coupler wouldn't show a ruler-flat response, because it accounts for the resonance from the inner part of the ear canal (711 couplers were designed originally for deep-insert hearing aids). In theory, if I took the mic out and put it right up against a flat FR DUT, it would then show a ruler-flat response throughout the spectrum - even in the bass. (But one important word of warning to anybody with a 711 coupler - you're never supposed to take the mics out. They're calibrated as an entity and the coupler resonance chamber volume is carefully adjusted to give the correct transfer impedance. You can destroy your coupler by removing the mic!)

It might be interesting to compare measurements of the same headphone on both our rigs. I do own many cheaper earbuds, but in my experience, unit variance can be pretty large - even on more expensive buds like the Shozys and the Moondrops. The best option would probably be for us to mail the exact same pair of earbuds to one another. Are you, by any chance, in the US?


----------



## fonkepala

rangachari said:


> The ZEN is the problem. The treble is not sparkle. No clearer mids.  And, importantly, everyone knows it is praised for its sound sig everywhere on the net but it cannot boast for the bass response, definitely it is not for the bass heads. With foams, the whole sound get muffled, spoiling the mids even further. Maybe it is a beauty with its siblings amp  Runabout which I do not own nor did I have a chance to test it with.



Ah, I see. The Mojo is plenty powerful already & it should be able to drive the Zen. It also has a warm sound signature with nice slightly boosted bass so I'm surprised you still find the bass of the Zen to be lacking when paired with the Mojo. If the Mojo doesn't provide good synergy between it & the Zen, then I doubt the Runabout will.



bjk8kds said:


> I think the housing diameter is like common housing mx500 etc..
> Not comfortable for me but not bad either..



Really? They do feel very slightly larger to me. It might just be my particular ear anatomy. Anyway, I'll try putting on different foams. Currently using the ones it came with.


----------



## ncristia

headenvelopedinsound said:


> Hey all new to the earbud game and just got the Kbear Knight. It's really nice with some eqing. Very mid forward and imho to much mids. With 10band eq I just lowered the 2k down about 3 db and boosted the bass 64/100 both 3db. Sounds great now. Love the sound and for work where I have people talking to me all the time I really like the way I can hear quality sound and everyone around me.
> 
> So I looked around and just bought the Sambot M1 Pro as I see it's targeted to be very natural/neutral sound. If you notice in my signature I like Neutral sound for the most part. Any recommendations in the Neutral department or is the M1 Pro a solid choice in that mid-tier price range? I do not have Facebook so MoonBud is out for me... Thanks!


Moondrop Nameless


----------



## rangachari

Es


fonkepala said:


> see





fonkepala said:


> Ah, I see. The Mojo is plenty powerful already & it should be able to drive the Zen. It also has a warm sound signature with nice slightly boosted bass so I'm surprised you still find the bass of the Zen to be lacking when paired with the Mojo. If the Mojo doesn't provide good synergy between it & the Zen, then I doubt the Runabout will.



One can not find fault with Mojo, it delivers its own base that has a nice impact with a long decay, no question about it, but in order to get this base you will have to listen at a little higher volume. I am comparing now the base with the Yuin PK1's, it does produce a reverberating punchy base and it is so fun to listen to even at a lower volume and no doubt will definitely bring a smile to anyone's face listening on it which is not the case with Zen 2.0, at least basis my experience.  Of course, again, each bud has its own pros and cons. PS: Lee from Veclan agrees that Mojo does not drive their 2.0 well enough like their Runabout and says many confirmed as much.


----------



## robar (Jan 4, 2020)

csglinux said:


> My coupler wouldn't show a ruler-flat response, because it accounts for the resonance from the inner part of the ear canal (711 couplers were designed originally for deep-insert hearing aids). In theory, if I took the mic out and put it right up against a flat FR DUT, it would then show a ruler-flat response throughout the spectrum - even in the bass. (But one important word of warning to anybody with a 711 coupler - you're never supposed to take the mics out. They're calibrated as an entity and the coupler resonance chamber volume is carefully adjusted to give the correct transfer impedance. You can destroy your coupler by removing the mic!)
> 
> It might be interesting to compare measurements of the same headphone on both our rigs. I do own many cheaper earbuds, but in my experience, unit variance can be pretty large - even on more expensive buds like the Shozys and the Moondrops. The best option would probably be for us to mail the exact same pair of earbuds to one another. Are you, by any chance, in the US?


Thanks for the interesting info! I do notice that the measurement you posted few days ago has a very distinct U-shaped dip at about 7-8khz. I've seen this before with other graphs, could this be an uncompensated part of your measurements or these buds just happen to have a dip there? Mine shows usually flatter more varying graphs at that frequency range, maybe this is one of the main effects of your coupler?
Sadly I don't live in the US, shipping would probably be a pain. I think this experiment would still be interesting even if there is some sample variation involved, (I have graphs about 3 different vidos for example) like if we choose earbuds with very different sound signatures, we could still pinpoint some useful landmarks. What cheap earbuds could you measure? I have graphs about most that are mentioned in my signature likes vidos, qians, silver, b40 etc


----------



## citral23

Battle of the Tonekings






From left to right : Tomahawk, TO180, TO200, TO600
Not present : TO400s (gifted to my father)

The Tomahawk is by far the most fatiguing Toneking of this list, with forward high mids that hurt my head a bit, but I'm really sensitive so YMMV. It's a good choice for someone who wants the toneking sound in an easy to drive and fixed cable package and is performing well for me at low to mid volume with full foams. It has good bass quantity for my taste and sounds fine overall, but if I had to do it again I think I'd skip it.

The TO180 is the second most fatiguing, but it's only very slightly fatiguing in some conditions for me. It's more controlled than the Tomahawk, but still shares the same forward high-mids characteristic, that works very well on some genres and can cause fatigue on others. It has pretty good bass quantity and extension, with no bleed into mids, but a bass that sounds sort of boomy, not the most natural I've heard. It has a big slam tho which creates an exciting sound.

The TO200 is less fatiguing to my ears, with more low mids than high mids, and as a result can be listened to higher volumes, where the big soundstage and superb instument separation really start to shine. It has however the less bass of the bunch, so that won't please everyone, but as you start to turn the volume up you hear more of the bass, so it somewhats mitigates the characteristic. I wouldn't even call it neutral at low volume, more like bass deficient, but it's moving towards neutral at high volume. It has a very good slam on kicks, like the TO180 but with a very dry sound instead of the boomy hit.

The TO600 is by far the least fatiguing of the bunch, with a very warm tonality, emphasized bass that bleeds into low-mids, and very polite mids and treble, it is a really relaxing sound that should please most, but is also the hardest to drive. It performs much better for me on balanced output than SE.

Absent at the moment is the TO400s, which is the only toneking earbud I owned that had a perfect cable. It is also the most neutral of the lot, with the best extension on both ends, reaching deeper in sub and having more sparkle in the highs, but without any kind of fatigue to my ears. It also had much less coloured/grainy mids than the 4 of the picture, which resulted to my ears in a more "correct" listen, but also less exciting for acoustic music. It was however able to reproduce classical in a very, very good manner, and was doing well for genres like hip-hop or EDM where sub is called for.

My preference :
Jazz :  TO200 by far
Rock, Folk etc : TO600 or TO180 depending on mood and material
Classical, Hip-Hop, EDM : TO400s


----------



## acroyear

Anyone know why K's make a $500 earbud with a chin slider that doesn't work?  I've had the Bell Ti for a few days now.  It's the best earbud I've ever heard, but I'm going crazy trying to figure out how to keep the chin slider up.  Yes, I actually use them.  It's so loose it almost immediately slides straight down.  Seems like something they could easily make properly, just making the two holes smaller!


----------



## DBaldock9

acroyear said:


> Anyone know why K's make a $500 earbud with a chin slider that doesn't work?  I've had the Bell Ti for a few days now.  It's the best earbud I've ever heard, but I'm going crazy trying to figure out how to keep the chin slider up.  Yes, I actually use them.  It's so loose it almost immediately slides straight down.  Seems like something they could easily make properly, just making the two holes smaller!



Maybe you could stick thin, black plastic twist ties through the holes, and twist them on the back side - to provide additional friction for the wires in the slider.


----------



## assassin10000

acroyear said:


> Anyone know why K's make a $500 earbud with a chin slider that doesn't work?  I've had the Bell Ti for a few days now.  It's the best earbud I've ever heard, but I'm going crazy trying to figure out how to keep the chin slider up.  Yes, I actually use them.  It's so loose it almost immediately slides straight down.  Seems like something they could easily make properly, just making the two holes smaller!





DBaldock9 said:


> Maybe you could stick thin, black plastic twist ties through the holes, and twist them on the back side - to provide additional friction for the wires in the slider.



Or maybe roll an o-ring over the plug and splitter up to the slider.


----------



## acroyear

assassin10000 said:


> Or maybe roll an o-ring over the plug and splitter up to the slider.



I'm thinking about using some type of wire.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Could use black yarn or some kind of thread?


----------



## acroyear

BadReligionPunk said:


> Could use black yarn or some kind of thread?



I was thinking seriously about using thread.  I just don't know how to finish the wrap so no excess thread hangs off.  I was thinking about a teeny dab of super glue when the thread wrap is finished.. then, I decided maybe the idea was strange an too complicated.  Now, since YOU had the same idea I'm more confident about the idea


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Jan 5, 2020)

acroyear said:


> I was thinking seriously about using thread.  I just don't know how to finish the wrap so no excess thread hangs off.  I was thinking about a teeny dab of super glue when the thread wrap is finished.. then, I decided maybe the idea was strange an too complicated.  Now, since YOU had the same idea I'm more confident about the idea


Yea. I think you could wrap it in a way that looked nice, and then either use a bit of super glue on the bottom of the splitter or maybe use some clear polish. I think that's what girls used back in the day to resize their BF's Class Rings so they would fit them. 

https://www.leaf.tv/articles/how-to-wrap-a-class-ring/


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 5, 2020)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Yea. I think you could wrap it in a way that looked nice, and then either use a bit of super glue on the bottom of the splitter or maybe use some clear polish. I think that's what girls used back in the day to resize their BF's Class Rings so they would fit them.



Angora yarn was used for that... in colors to match the outfit.  Don't ask me how I know... lol

I was thinking  maybe some nice black embroidery thread from a craft/sewing/ yarn shop  The person working at the shop might have some ideas if they were shown the problem.

They might even do it


----------



## sainteb

Can anyone here comment on the microphone quality of **** RW-100 and the likes? I'm currently using a pair of Monk Plus but people are telling me that my mic is really bad and I'd like to replace it with something half-decent like my EarPods' mic.


----------



## acroyear

Thanks everyone!  I used a black twisty tie and it's working, but a little too thick.  When I slide the slider the tight friction twists the wires together.  I think I see why K made the slider loose now, but it's still way TOO loose imo.  Next stop, fabric store.  Titanium colored thread


----------



## headenvelopedinsound (Jan 7, 2020)

Ali sale tomorrow... looking at the Datura Pro and BK2. I have seen a lot of positive stuff on the BK2 but anyone have any experience with the Datura Pro? Saw a few pages back it was noted to be comfy and warm sounding. I like neutral and warm neutral. Seems nice choice. Grabbing a few mid to low mid priced buds to get a feel for them. Smabat M1 pro I expect will be my preferred neutral bud. But we will see. Hard not to grab a lot of these guys up for the sale prices.

*Update* Decided to just grab a cheap pair of RY4S mmcx and some supplies to do a DIY build with a 600ohm Beryllium driver(this is the one I am hyped about).


----------



## larry piencenaves

acroyear said:


> Anyone know why K's make a $500 earbud with a chin slider that doesn't work?  I've had the Bell Ti for a few days now.  It's the best earbud I've ever heard, but I'm going crazy trying to figure out how to keep the chin slider up.  Yes, I actually use them.  It's so loose it almost immediately slides straight down.  Seems like something they could easily make properly, just making the two holes smaller!




Ive been intrigued to that k's earbud for a long time because of the dead flat fr graph shown on their page, hows it sound tho? is the 500bucks worth it?


----------



## robar (Jan 6, 2020)

I've finally received my Faaeal Z-sound which I ordered last november for 2.8usd on a sale. (half of regular price) My first day impressions:

The custom 14.8mm shell is quite comfy for me, though a bit bigger than expected. (the overall size is roughly similar to dp100 or ry4x, just the front cover diameter is slightly smaller) The build quality is decent, the materials are undeniably budget but the finish is nice and the cable is actually decent - normal length with metal plug and splitter, it's a bit stiffer than expected though. The build itself is good for the full price in my opinion.
The overall tuning is a clean midcentric slightly warm one with a bit of midbass punch and rolled off bass/treble, which would be pretty decent again but there is a flaw: a quite aggressive peak around 2-3khz is present which can make the mids shouty/sharp sometimes and can throw off the otherwise good tonal balance. Detail level is good for such an inexpensive bud, but the soundstage is smallish.
If there wasn't that midrange peak, I would be quite content with this Z-sound for the sale price, it could be something like a "poor man's low-fi b40 for third of the price" or something. I'll probably try to open up this one and play with the tuning, as the potential is there in my opinion. In this current state though I'm a bit hesitant to recommend it, I mean a midcentric earbud with a tendency to have sharp midrange? Maybe one can get away with it by thicker full foam or darker smoother source. For 2.8usd sale price this is a nicely built comfortable disposable bud, good for collectors or the casual user who listen to podcasts/youtube/background music.  Let's see if it improves in the upcoming days.
It sounds cleaner compared to qian39, so if somebody wants a smaller comfy midcentric earbud but finds the qian39 muddy and bloated than this can be a nice alternative. Qian39 has deeper bass and better fit though


----------



## rangachari

artpiggo said:


> I got rose maria yesterday and I will test it this evening.


Can you share us the SQ? I am so excited to hear on the feedback.


----------



## csglinux

robar said:


> I do notice that the measurement you posted few days ago has a very distinct U-shaped dip at about 7-8khz. I've seen this before with other graphs, could this be an uncompensated part of your measurements or these buds just happen to have a dip there?


Good observation. So there are two causes of resonance - the driver/bud itself, and the ear canal. There's an interesting new coupler from GRAS (the RA401/RA402 models) that massively damps the ear canal resonances. It's an interesting tool for identifying the cause of the peaks, however, at the end of the day, you're still going to hear them all, so you'd really want to see them all. That dip you see is really two peaks (~6.5 kHz and ~10 kHz) and I suspect both are ear-canal related and a function of canal length. (Primary ear canal resonance is ~13 kHz for deep-insertion IEMs, but drops well below 10 kHz for shallow-insertion devices, and even lower for earbuds which are basically non-insertion devices.) As a result, those peaks are present on all my earbuds:



 

As for a cheap common bud to measure, I have a stock EMX500?


----------



## robar (Jan 6, 2020)

csglinux said:


> Good observation. So there are two causes of resonance - the driver/bud itself, and the ear canal. There's an interesting new coupler from GRAS (the RA401/RA402 models) that massively damps the ear canal resonances. It's an interesting tool for identifying the cause of the peaks, however, at the end of the day, you're still going to hear them all, so you'd really want to see them all. That dip you see is really two peaks (~6.5 kHz and ~10 kHz) and I suspect both are ear-canal related and a function of canal length. (Primary ear canal resonance is ~13 kHz for deep-insertion IEMs, but drops well below 10 kHz for shallow-insertion devices, and even lower for earbuds which are basically non-insertion devices.) As a result, those peaks are present on all my earbuds:
> 
> 
> As for a cheap common bud to measure, I have a stock EMX500?


Very interesting, thanks! I never had stock EMX500 sadly, but I do have EMX500 speakers that I bought separately for diy builds. Actually, I had a very similar build to the emx500 graph on your picture, where I used the speakers from RY4S UE, which are extremely similar to the emx500 (just 1-2dB difference in the low bass and upper mids, but generally the same shape/sound) in the shell of a white vido. I think it should sound very similar to the stock emx500 based on reviews, and the graph is quite similar too, the landmarks are there. (compared to 1khz, 5dB boost of bass centered around 70hz, and about +9dB from 1khz to 2.5khz)

Interestingly enough, the main differences between our graphs are those two spots that we discussed - your graph has a U-shaped dip between 2.5khz and 6khz, and another one from 6.5-10khz. Of course this is not a direct comparison but I think this is a pretty good indicator that compared to your rig my setup probably produces a 5dB bump from 2.5khz to 6khz peaking at about 4.5khz, and draws a roughly flat line around 6-10khz where your setup makes a U shaped curve. (plus I have that little obvious bump at 250hz of course) This is quite close to what I was guessing, as the neutral sounding buds I have does produce something quite similar to that 5dB bump.

Of course this is no direct comparison but it was already useful to me, I think we're much closer to pinpointing the fundamental differences between the two setups.


----------



## GREQ

I fixed the oxidized green silver cable on my sabia v6 if anyone's interested ... https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/page-85#post-15401871


----------



## MonTay

Hi all, looking for a recommendation for a first set of earbuds. I would like something that sounds similar (if possible) to the kph30i (mine broke ). The kph30i had just the right amount of bass compared to my ATH-AD700x's while also having decent clarity and soundstage. They were decently fun and very easy to listen to (no fatigue in everyday, gaming or music use). For music I listen to a variety of dream pop/chill electronic, orchestral, jazz, and vocally focused indie pop or rock. I like to be able to either focus in on the singer's voice or focus in on specific instruments/sounds. I also play competitive video games so soundstage/positioning is important.

Budget wise I would like to spend <$60. I would prefer something with nice metal shell and/or removable cable. I was looking at the OurArt Ti7/ACG and the Toneking Tomahawk but am not sure if they will meet my expectations sound-wise. I have no idea where to start when it comes to the cheaper aliexpress/alibaba stuff.

Looking forward to hearing your suggestions!


----------



## Mhog55

What's the warmest sounding bud you've heard? I'm after a warm, organic set of buds, with good power and energy. Something similar to the 99 Classics without the bass, because I doubt I'll find that in earbud. That being said, I'd still like a solid low end, within the constraints of a bud. I'm hoping to find this with my inbound TK TO180. 

On a side note, does anyone own the Linsoul DTM? Thoughts??


----------



## artpiggo

rangachari said:


> Can you share us the SQ? I am so excited to hear on the feedback.



Now 30 hour burn in, I find vocal very smoother, fuller soundstage, warmer and more forward mid compared to my rose mojito. It does need high power amp to drive it nicely. Still need to burn it more time.

Also need to find a cable matching. Right now, it works best with silver plated copper cable most. It does fulfilled each other.


----------



## rangachari

artpiggo said:


> Now 30 hour burn in, I find vocal very smoother, fuller soundstage, warmer and more forward mid compared to my rose mojito. It does need high power amp to drive it nicely. Still need to burn it more time.
> 
> Also need to find a cable matching. Right now, it works best with silver plated copper cable most. It does fulfilled each other.



Wow. Nice to hear this, hope it sounds better with more burn in.  Yeah, I agree with you, higher power always drive the low impedance earphones nicely. How does it sound with and without foam? What about the soundstage and separation ?


----------



## RobinFood

Mhog55 said:


> What's the warmest sounding bud you've heard? I'm after a warm, organic set of buds, with good power and energy. Something similar to the 99 Classics without the bass, because I doubt I'll find that in earbud. That being said, I'd still like a solid low end, within the constraints of a bud. I'm hoping to find this with my inbound TK TO180.
> 
> On a side note, does anyone own the Linsoul DTM? Thoughts??



Warmest I heard was the Willsound MK2.
Nice and warm, very satisfying.

I am really happy with the bass on the Smabat ST-10 that had a nice and surprising amount of sub bass but the signature is not warm, more neutral/analytical with a sub bass lift for satisfying impact.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have the Linsoul DTM A8 it is a bright airy sounding earbud, very pleasant


----------



## 40760

Still no new earbuds for the new year...

All these discussion made me brought out my newly replaced Shozy B.K. and Cygnus for a burn in, while I enjoy my Kube Plus...


----------



## theresanarc

Where have all the Qian39s gone on AXpress? I only see them from two sellers, was planning to buy the Qian69+39 from the NickeHCK store and they only have the 69 now.


----------



## DBaldock9

I've just pulled out the VE Zen Lite L (that came as a free bonus with my Zen 2.0 Zoe).
.
My Zen Lite L is setup slightly non-standard (so that they're secure & comfortable in my ears) -
1.) I took some of these silicone ear pads, and modified them, by cutting off the "wings", so they're just silicone "rings". [ https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32810617185.html ]
2.) I placed Hiegi Donut Foams over the rings.
.
They're plugged into the 2.5mm TRRS jack on my stock DSD, running as a USB DAC for my work PC (listening to Allison Young & Postmodern Jukebox videos on YouTube), and the earbuds sound great, with the Volume on the DSD set to 14 (in a quiet office cubicle).


----------



## ClieOS

Just a word of caution: If you are not in any hurry, try holding off from buying any particularly expensive gears from China for now, wait till it is 2nd week of February. Chinese New Year is just around the corner and the Chinese will start moving around (going from city back to rural home) in about 2 days. It is generally a bad time to order around this time as there will be a higher change package might go missing or get delayed.


----------



## robar (Jan 7, 2020)

theresanarc said:


> Where have all the Qian39s gone on AXpress? I only see them from two sellers, was planning to buy the Qian69+39 from the NickeHCK store and they only have the 69 now.


There are less and less Qian39 and Qian69 on aliexpress, I bought my Qians in last spring and none of the stores where I bought sell them any more. I suggest you to buy qian39 from ollivan as it offers the cheapest price right now. I don't think you will miss the tin box that is only included in more expensive listings, I don't really find those useful anyway personally. I'm just guessing but these models might have been discontinued, let's hope the reason is that Qian plans to introduce new models in their place. If you really want any qian I think you should order soon. This is just a theory, it would be good to know official info about this


----------



## Jsingh4

Hi guys are there any better earbuds than apple earpods in low impedance and in same price range, i want to use them with phone in bed at night for music. Also the docomo or yuin pk shell don't fit me nicely monk shell fits fine.


----------



## NStef

ClieOS said:


> Just a word of caution: If you are not in any hurry, try holding off from buying any particularly expensive gears from China for now, wait till it is 2nd week of February. Chinese New Year is just around the corner and the Chinese will start moving around (going from city back to rural home) in about 2 days. It is generally a bad time to order around this time as there will be a higher change package might go missing or get delayed.



Thanks for the advice.  I was going to pull the trigger on DQSM Turandot.  I will wait.


----------



## Mhog55

HungryPanda said:


> I have the Linsoul DTM A8 it is a bright airy sounding earbud, very pleasant


So more neutral - analytical than warm and fuzzy? Extended, open highs and all that jazz?


----------



## Mhog55

RobinFood said:


> Warmest I heard was the Willsound MK2.
> Nice and warm, very satisfying.
> 
> I am really happy with the bass on the Smabat ST-10 that had a nice and surprising amount of sub bass but the signature is not warm, more neutral/analytical with a sub bass lift for satisfying impact.


That's kinda how the Smabat M1 sounds, only a more neutral low end. Not really what I'm after. M1 isn't bad, but a touch boring for my taste. I've had the Willsound mk2 on my next up list for a while now. How's the imaging / separation? Does it sound congested or bloated? How are the mids... Hopefully not recessed. Thx


----------



## HungryPanda

Mhog55 said:


> So more neutral - analytical than warm and fuzzy? Extended, open highs and all that jazz?


yes that sound just like I hear


----------



## BloodyPenguin

My thoughts on the *Astrotec Lyra Nature*:

_*I was provided the Lyra Nature from Astrotec for review*  _

Holy Soundstage Batman!  I feel like the tuners asked how much distance do you want and the answer was just "Yes".  Listening to these, I feel like my tiny town-home grew two sizes.

Such an airy and light playback flows which each song.  It very much lives up to its name with a natural feel.  Listening to Pink Floyd's - Paranoid Eyes you are able to hear the distant footsteps and whispers.  Gives you shivers.

The signature is close to neutral.  Bass goes low, mids stay controlled and highs do provide some nice detail.  I did notice that depending on what I'm playing that the reverb takes a little long to diminish, giving away to a touch of congestion.  I feel these are better suited for slower, less complex songs.

Build materials are quite premium.  The Lyra Nature is a beautiful designed earbud.  The grills on both sides of the housings are a work of art.  The included MMCX cable also looks nice, though it is a little sticky and this can be a tad difficult to untangle at times.

Overall the Astrotec Lyra Nature is a great earbud.  With its big Soundstage, great build and neutral playback.


















--


----------



## csglinux

BloodyPenguin said:


> My thoughts on the *Astrotec Lyra Nature*:
> 
> _*I was provided the Lyra Nature from Astrotec for review*  _
> 
> ...


These folks didn't like their sound: 

I don't suppose you've been able to measure them?


----------



## assassin10000

BloodyPenguin said:


> My thoughts on the *Astrotec Lyra Nature*:
> 
> _*I was provided the Lyra Nature from Astrotec for review*  _
> 
> ...



Do you have a caliper to measure the O.D. of them?


----------



## Mhog55

Kind of a weird question - Are there any earbuds with an mmcx cable, that have a reassuring click when connecting the cable? My M1 Pro does this, and it's kind of a nice feature. I haven't discovered any others yet.


----------



## HungryPanda

there are many


----------



## EagleWings

csglinux said:


> These folks didn't like their sound:
> 
> I don't suppose you've been able to measure them?




I don't know if these earbuds change with burn-in. As of right now it has around 10-20hrs. The Turnadot seems to be at least a notch above the Nature (foam donut on the Nature and full foam on the Tu-dot). There is a price difference of $70 between the 2 though. Nature seems to have a mid-centric tuning, with a slightly toned down upper-mids and treble, and quite rolled-off on both ends. This gives the impression of a warm, thick, romantic, but a veiled presentation. In comparison, the Tu-dot is not as rolled-off on either ends, has the right amount of presence in the upper-mids and is more linear/neutral and transparent overall. Tu-dot also has better technical performance than the Nature, with a larger overall stage, and better separation and layering. For these reasons, it works for genres like rock, jazz and vocals, and doesn't work for genres like pop, synthetic, EDM, electro and orchestral.

Nature is not a bad earbud per se. I do like it for its completely smooth, forgiving and romantic sound. But I am not blown away.


----------



## Mhog55

HungryPanda said:


> there are many


Unfortunately, I haven't seen this element listed in any descriptions. Would you be so kind to list those you are familiar with?


----------



## HungryPanda (Jan 8, 2020)

Paiaudio PK1, OurArt Ti7, Toneking TO200, Toneking TO400s, Toneking TO600, Svara-L, Yincrow RW-1000, Smabat ST-10, Pizen KP110, **** PT15, Linsoul DTM A8, RY RY4S mmcx plus, RY RY4S mmcx 300 ohm and BGVP DX3s are all mmcx earbuds that I possess


----------



## rkw

HungryPanda said:


> Paiaudio PK1, OurArt Ti7, Toneking TO200, Toneking TO400s, Toneking TO600, Svara-L, Yincrow RW-1000, Smabat ST-10, Pizen KP110, **** PT15, Linsoul DTM A8, RY RY4S mmcx plus, RY RY4S mmcx 300 ohm and BGVP DX3s are all mmcx earbuds that I possess


@Mhog55's specific question was about mmcx "_that have a reassuring click when connecting the cable_". I think he means which ones have a high quality connector?


----------



## fonkepala

csglinux said:


> These folks didn't like their sound:




I've watched that YouTube channel several times before and the impression I got was that the reviewer tends to be a bit too critical and nitpicky. Of course, to be fair some people may prefer that..and not everyone hears or use equipment the same way. 



Mhog55 said:


> Kind of a weird question - Are there any earbuds with an mmcx cable, that have a reassuring click when connecting the cable? My M1 Pro does this, and it's kind of a nice feature. I haven't discovered any others yet.



My BK2 & **** PT15 has that click.


----------



## HungryPanda

rkw said:


> @Mhog55's specific question was about mmcx "_that have a reassuring click when connecting the cable_". I think he means which ones have a high quality connector?


All of mine are secure with no drop outs


----------



## Mhog55

rkw said:


> @Mhog55's specific question was about mmcx "_that have a reassuring click when connecting the cable_". I think he means which ones have a high quality connector?


Correct. The M1 Pro is the only earbud I've come across, where when you insert the mmcx connections into the buds, they click when fully inserted. This makes for a more secure fit imo. No loose connections, or cables getting accidentally removed.


----------



## Mhog55

fonkepala said:


> I've watched that YouTube channel several times before and the impression I got was that the reviewer tends to be a bit too critical and nitpicky. Of course, to be fair some people may prefer that..and not everyone hears or use equipment the same way.
> 
> 
> 
> My BK2 & **** PT15 has that click.


I have both of those buds, and neither "click" when the cable is fully inserted.


----------



## Mhog55

HungryPanda said:


> All of mine are secure with no drop outs


I get drop outs from time to time. Just looking for a click here. Nothing more, nothing less.


----------



## assassin10000

Mhog55 said:


> I have both of those buds, and neither "click" when the cable is fully inserted.



Could be the cable end as well.


My ACG & ST-10 have a good click on my preferred cable and BT20S.


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm not in the mood to disconnect all my cables but as I'm using the BGVP DX3s right now I did and the connectors are tight to fit and have a loud click on these


----------



## Mhog55

HungryPanda said:


> I'm not in the mood to disconnect all my cables but as I'm using the BGVP DX3s right now I did and the connectors are tight to fit and have a loud click on these


Thank you. Odd the DX5 does not.


----------



## csglinux

fonkepala said:


> I've watched that YouTube channel several times before and the impression I got was that the reviewer tends to be a bit too critical and nitpicky. Of course, to be fair some people may prefer that..and not everyone hears or use equipment the same way.


For sure. However, I trust @EagleWings' opinion and he makes a similar comment about them being a bit rolled off at both ends. I'm a bit surprised that such a signature would be deliberately engineered into a flagship (or at least, a reasonably expensive) product. It's way too easy to create nothing but midrange. You don't need to spend hundreds of dollars for that.


----------



## assassin10000

Anyone here tried these?

"diy earphone head warm sound mmcx socket"
Impedance:32ohms
frequency:18-21khz
Sensitivity: 103db/w
driver:14.2mm

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000131213791.html


----------



## mbwilson111

assassin10000 said:


> Anyone here tried these?
> 
> "diy earphone head warm sound mmcx socket"
> Impedance:32ohms
> ...



I am tempted to try them.  I love the comfort of pods.  My Memt T5 pod sounds excellent.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jan 8, 2020)

mbwilson111 said:


> I am tempted to try them.  I love the comfort of pods.  My Memt T5 pod sounds excellent.



Me too. Came across them looking for diy shells.

Looking at the makes me kinda miss the PT25's I had for a bit. I ended up selling them as the ACG's I got not too long after getting the PT25 are on the next tier.

Makes me hesitant. Trying to keep my 'list' from growing too large... .


----------



## mbwilson111

assassin10000 said:


> Trying to keep my 'list' from growing too large... .



I have failed....


----------



## 40760

Luckily the Shozy B.K and Cygnus are sounding much better with burn in...

Wonder if it is the Kube Plus sounding "fuller" with better lower end that's causing the perceived "hollowness" in the other 2 pairs.

I also remembered the B.K as being the smoothest sounding I've heard, but the Kube Plus has sort of outdone itself once again...


----------



## fonkepala

Mhog55 said:


> I have both of those buds, and neither "click" when the cable is fully inserted.



I stand corrected. I took out my BK2 just now and true enough, no click. But the feeling is so positive & secure I may just have 'heard' the click in my head


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Who has ABnormal Labs Duotres 1.5, can describe the sound? I received but they sound somehow very clean and even, I can't hear surround, although the description said that they have good bass.


----------



## j4100

I joined the club!


----------



## BloodyPenguin

assassin10000 said:


> Anyone here tried these?
> 
> "diy earphone head warm sound mmcx socket"
> Impedance:32ohms
> ...



I've bought from this DIY seller a bunch of times.

Prices are a bit higher, but he does nice work.

I do not have these exact buds you posted, but they look interesting.

--


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Advance Plus



Spoiler



http://www.rholupat.com/indonesian-buds/advance-plus.html


----------



## Mimouille

If anyone is looking I have a pair of Liebesleid for sale. Mint and all. Can't fit them properly but sound awesome.


----------



## SSakul

Hi guys . Any recc for Buds sub 50$ ? Looking for some step up from Nicehck ME80 for my wife .. 

Are Mrz tomahawk still thing ? Or something different around that price point that is worth looking for ? 


My " strange " ears cant fit any classic earbuds ( and my wife cant stand any IEMs ), so .. as i have pretty much zero experience, every tip is welcomed .

Thx for any reply


----------



## ClieOS

Just an head up, DQSM is currently developing an high impedance Turandot. ETA is around February.


----------



## larry piencenaves (Jan 9, 2020)

Hello @ClieOS just wanna ask if you would still recommend the toneking ty2? Im really curious about that earbud for a long time but the lack of reviews and most people saying its just an average sounding with the lack of bass, (although the fr graph showned by toneking itself doesnt reflect what the users say in them so its a bit confusing), and that made me lost interest in it. I have the Toneking Unicorn replaced the cables with the ones on the Ninetails and it sounded amazing. Would it be an upgrade? Or is there any earbud that would be better than ty2 with the same price range? Im looking for a close to neutral sound.


----------



## ClieOS

larry piencenaves said:


> Hello @ClieOS just wanna ask if you would still recommend the toneking ty2? Im really curious about that earbud for a long time but the lack of reviews and most people saying its just an average sounding with the lack of bass, (although the fr graph showned by toneking itself doesnt reflect what the users say in them so its a bit confusing), and that made me lost interest in it. I have the Toneking Unicorn replaced the cables with the ones on the Ninetails and it sounded amazing. Would it be an upgrade? Or is there any earbud that would be better than ty2 with the same price range? Im looking for a close to neutral sound.



Fit is problem with TY2 due to its shape and smooth finishing. You'll get a good sound only if you get a good fit. At this point I am much more inclined to recommend Smabat ST-10 as my top choice of neutral sounding earbud.


----------



## larry piencenaves (Jan 10, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> Fit is problem with TY2 due to its shape and smooth finishing. You'll get a good sound only if you get a good fit. At this point I am much more inclined to recommend Smabat ST-10 as my top choice of neutral sounding earbud.




Im planning to use it  with some sharkfin tips tho for a better fit. So fitting issues might be fixed. Hows the overall resolution of the ty2 btw, any improvements in the bass department tru burn in?  I will also look up for that smabat. Thanks.


Edit: I forgot to mention, I also prefer a wider soundstage, I just looked up on the st-10 reviews here and unfortunately majority of the reviews said it was into more initimate staging (also recessed mids too(?) ). But those graphs presented by smabat says differently so..


----------



## ClieOS

larry piencenaves said:


> Im planning to use it  with some sharkfin tips tho for a better fit. So fitting issues might be fixed. Hows the overall resolution of the ty2 btw, any improvements in the bass department tru burn in?  I will also look up for that smabat. Thanks.
> 
> 
> Edit: I forgot to mention, I also prefer a wider soundstage, I just looked up on the st-10 reviews here and unfortunately majority of the reviews said it was into more initimate staging (also recessed mids too(?) ). But those graphs presented by smabat says differently so..


 
Shark fin eartips might let it sits more securely in your ears, but not necessarily gives it a better seal that will be required for the bass to sound correct. Foam pad is better for TY2, though as I mentioned before, the shape is not particularly good for foam pad to stay on.

I don't find ST-10 soundstage to be intimate. If anything, I find it to be excellent.


----------



## larry piencenaves

ClieOS said:


> Shark fin eartips might let it sits more securely in your ears, but not necessarily gives it a better seal that will be required for the bass to sound correct. Foam pad is better for TY2, though as I mentioned before, the shape is not particularly good for foam pad to stay on.
> 
> I don't find ST-10 soundstage to be intimate. If anything, I find it to be excellent.




Oh i see, thanks, welp, maybe I'll just buy the 2 if both of em goes on sale on chinese new year


----------



## headenvelopedinsound (Jan 10, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> Fit is problem with TY2 due to its shape and smooth finishing. You'll get a good sound only if you get a good fit. At this point I am much more inclined to recommend Smabat ST-10 as my top choice of neutral sounding earbud.



I've caught the earbud bug. So I have the Smabat M1 Pro on order currently. The ST-10 is on sale on Ali right now for about the same price as the M1 Pro is normally. How would you compare these two? I am looking for a pretty much "studio reference" tuning. From what I gathered from reviews the M1 Pro is the one that leans towards that area due to the bass being more flat and no bleed into mids. I don't mind warmth or thickness to mids and bass but to much color and I don't want my ears to "learn" bad behavior if you get me. I have listened to my studio monitors and Ety/Fearless S6 Pro so long now that I look for studio neutral with only flavor in the sub bass to better emulate the physical feeling a sub gives in the room.

PS: I rummaged around your DIY thread and ordered supplies to make a DIY Ety  ER4. Looks to be identical shells but I got mine from Ali and the knowles as well.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jan 10, 2020)

headenvelopedinsound said:


> I've caught the earbud bug. So I have the Smabat M1 Pro on order currently. The ST-10 is on sale on Ali right now for about the same price as the M1 Pro is normally. How would you compare these two? I am looking for a pretty much "studio reference" tuning. From what I gathered from reviews the M1 Pro is the one that leans towards that area due to the bass being more flat and no bleed into mids. I don't mind warmth or thickness to mids and bass but to much color and I don't want my ears to "learn" bad behavior if you get me. I have listened to my studio monitors and Ety/Fearless S6 Pro so long now that *I look for studio neutral with only flavor in the sub bass to better emulate the physical feeling a sub gives in the room.*



M1 pro is the warmer of the two. Slightly less dynamic sounding.

Get the ST-10. Not warm. Neutral with a sub-bass & bass boost. Not mid bass and no bleed. Seems to match what you are saying I quoted in bold.

If you're in the U.S. I have my pair for sale.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

SSakul said:


> Hi guys . Any recc for Buds sub 50$ ? Looking for some step up from Nicehck ME80 for my wife ..
> Are Mrz tomahawk still thing ? Or something different around that price point that is worth looking for ?
> My " strange " ears cant fit any classic earbuds ( and my wife cant stand any IEMs ), so .. as i have pretty much zero experience, every tip is welcomed .
> Thx for any reply



Smabat M1 Pro (sale or coupons), TY Hi-Z F150TS, The KubePlus, Willsound MK2...


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

assassin10000 said:


> M1 pro is the warmer of the two. Slightly less dynamic sounding.
> 
> Get the ST-10. Not warm. Neutral with a sub-bass & bass boost. Not mid bass and no bleed. Seems to match what you are saying I quoted in bold.
> 
> If you're in the U.S. I have my pair for sale.



Ok I am in the US and will consider that. If you DM me to let me know what you are looking for out of them that'd be cool. You can include why you are separating with them as well.


----------



## ClieOS

assassin10000 said:


> M1 pro is the warmer of the two. Slightly less dynamic sounding.
> 
> Get the ST-10. Not warm. Neutral with a sub-bass & bass boost. Not mid bass and no bleed. ...



^^^ that.


----------



## golov17

ClieOS said:


> ^^^ that.


By the way, how are you doing with your Maria?


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> By the way, how are you doing with your Maria?



Over the moon.


----------



## bjk8kds (Jan 11, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> 瑞友MC9D
> BGVP DX5
> K's Earphones 'Smurf' / 'Blue Elf' (蓝精灵)
> Smabat M1 Pro


May I ask, how the comparison about bgvp dx5 vs smabat m1 pro? which one had balanced sound?
Sorry for bothering you, haha, thanks before..


----------



## ClieOS

bjk8kds said:


> May I ask, how the comparison about bgvp dx5 vs smabat m1 pro? which one had balanced sound?
> Sorry for bothering you, haha, thanks before..



M1 definitely sound much more balanced than DX5. M1 is mostly neutral in tone, where DX5 is smooth and warm, if not a bit dull.


----------



## mochill

Want more impression on maria


----------



## ClieOS

Maria has a mostly neutral sound that slightly tilting toward warmth. Good end-to-end reach with an exceptionally opened soundstage, biggest of any earbuds I ever listened to. It can sound slightly lean without foam, and sound more balanced with foam (I also put a silicone ring underneath the foam to get better fit). Unlike Mojito, which is on the brighter and more analytical side of presentation, Maria is closer to the 1st gen Masya in sound signature, but grander in every aspect and pretty much sound like a small full-sized rather than an earbuds. Fit is decent - the outer casing for the bigger driver is large, but doesn't touch the ear nor causing any discomfort. Build quality is significant better than Mojito, though you can still tell it is hand assembled.


----------



## Mhog55

ClieOS said:


> M1 definitely sound much more balanced than DX5. M1 is mostly neutral in tone, where DX5 is smooth and warm, if not a bit dull.


I  agree with this for the most part . I find the M1 the warmer of the two, but it's not overly warm by any means - relatively neutral. And yes, the DX5 I also found dull and boring. I found no warmth, only dips and peaks in bad locations.


----------



## mochill

ClieOS said:


> Maria has a mostly neutral sound that slightly tilting toward warmth. Good end-to-end reach with an exceptionally opened soundstage, biggest of any earbuds I ever listened to. It can sound slightly lean without foam, and sound more balanced with foam (I also put a silicone ring underneath the foam to get better fit). Unlike Mojito, which is on the brighter and more analytical side of presentation, Maria is closer to the 1st gen Masya in sound signature, but grander in every aspect and pretty much sound like a small full-sized rather than an earbuds. Fit is decent - the outer casing for the bigger driver is large, but doesn't touch the ear nor causing any discomfort. Build quality is significant better than Mojito, though you can still tell it is hand assembled.


I must get it


----------



## assassin10000

ClieOS said:


> Maria has a mostly neutral sound that slightly tilting toward warmth. Good end-to-end reach with an exceptionally opened soundstage, biggest of any earbuds I ever listened to. It can sound slightly lean without foam, and sound more balanced with foam (I also put a silicone ring underneath the foam to get better fit). Unlike Mojito, which is on the brighter and more analytical side of presentation, Maria is closer to the 1st gen Masya in sound signature, but grander in every aspect and pretty much sound like a small full-sized rather than an earbuds. Fit is decent - the outer casing for the bigger driver is large, but doesn't touch the ear nor causing any discomfort. Build quality is significant better than Mojito, though you can still tell it is hand assembled.



If you can measure it, what's the O.D. of the part that tucks into the ear?


----------



## ClieOS

assassin10000 said:


> If you can measure it, what's the O.D. of the part that tucks into the ear?



 About 15mm.


----------



## Mezzi

I feel lots of these cheap earphones are great for a couple of months then fail (rattling, etc) I bought 2 EMX500s and both have failed, now my other pair of Vido's have stopped working on one side. 
Good thing I'm not out alot of money but still.


----------



## waynes world

Mezzi said:


> I feel lots of these cheap earphones are great for a couple of months then fail (rattling, etc) I bought 2 EMX500s and both have failed, now my other pair of Vido's have stopped working on one side.
> Good thing I'm not out alot of money but still.



I hear you. One of the drivers of my Silvers (Fengru TC200's) just died. Mind you, I've been using them as my sleeping buds for the last 6 months, which means _mucho_ abuse, so I'm kind of surprised that they lasted as long as they did. I must say that I got a lot of enjoyment out of those $4 buds... and I will again someday! (ie in 39-60 days when my next ones arrive).


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> I hear you. One of the drivers of my Silvers (Fengru TC200's) just died. Mind you, I've been using them as my sleeping buds for the last 6 months, which means _mucho_ abuse, so I'm kind of surprised that they lasted as long as they did. I must say that I got a lot of enjoyment out of those $4 buds... and I will again someday! (ie in 39-60 days when my next ones arrive).



Are you sure it died?  Maybe one of the cables came loose inside.... you could open it,  check, and re-solder if necessary.  Simple, right?  

How does one sleep with buds?  I think all of mine would be destroyed if I did that.  Actually I doubt they would stay in my ears.


----------



## bjk8kds

ClieOS said:


> M1 definitely sound much more balanced than DX5. M1 is mostly neutral in tone, where DX5 is smooth and warm, if not a bit dull.





Mhog55 said:


> I  agree with this for the most part . I find the M1 the warmer of the two, but it's not overly warm by any means - relatively neutral. And yes, the DX5 I also found dull and boring. I found no warmth, only dips and peaks in bad locations.


Thanks!
So, instead wasting my money for DX3S or DX5 better to jump to M1 Pro, right?
Btw, I'm using BK2 for my daily driver now, is M1 Pro the right choice for upgrade (in the future)? Any other advice or precaution? Hehe..


----------



## Knightsfan11

Mezzi said:


> I feel lots of these cheap earphones are great for a couple of months then fail (rattling, etc) I bought 2 EMX500s and both have failed, now my other pair of Vido's have stopped working on one side.
> Good thing I'm not out alot of money but still.


Why not save up, spend a little more on a quality product to get a longer life out of it?


----------



## Mhog55

bjk8kds said:


> Thanks!
> So, instead wasting my money for DX3S or DX5 better to jump to M1 Pro, right?
> Btw, I'm using BK2 for my daily driver now, is M1 Pro the right choice for upgrade (in the future)? Any other advice or precaution? Hehe..


Honestly, I find the M1 more of a side grade than an upgrade to the bk2. I like the bk2 quite a bit. It punches above it's price. I was hoping both the M1 and DX5 would be the upgrade I was looking for. Still searching for that definitive upgrade. Going to try a Toneking next.


----------



## fonkepala

I had the opportunity to audition a Blur earbud today, although I can't recall which model/variation exactly it was. Terminated in 2.5mm balanced. Paired with an E1DA PDv2. It blew my socks off. I might just have found MY endgame bud...or at least something I think is worth saving up for in my case.


----------



## kshelton

He guys. I tried searching the thread but this hasn't been asked in a long time. What would you suggest as the best for around 100? Can go a little over if needed. Thanks!


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> How does one sleep with buds?  I think all of mine would be destroyed if I did that.  Actually I doubt they would stay in my ears.



Easy, get a pk shell one. I use my pandas and I can lie on my side and they don't hurt my ears. Sometimes I wake up hours later to turn off the DAP and put the lot out of the way.


----------



## 40760

Anyone knows if the Turnadot's golden cables are prone to oxidizing?


----------



## EagleWings

Had it here close to 2 months and no oxidation until now.


----------



## jrazmar

ClieOS said:


> Maria has a mostly neutral sound that slightly tilting toward warmth. Good end-to-end reach with an exceptionally opened soundstage, biggest of any earbuds I ever listened to. It can sound slightly lean without foam, and sound more balanced with foam (I also put a silicone ring underneath the foam to get better fit). Unlike Mojito, which is on the brighter and more analytical side of presentation, Maria is closer to the 1st gen Masya in sound signature, but grander in every aspect and pretty much sound like a small full-sized rather than an earbuds. Fit is decent - the outer casing for the bigger driver is large, but doesn't touch the ear nor causing any discomfort. Build quality is significant better than Mojito, though you can still tell it is hand assembled.



Hi ClieOS, how is Turandot vs. Maria? Im coming from the Liebesleid. I like everything about the Moondrop except for the fit which needs some fiddling. Which one to get next? Thanks.


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> Anyone knows if the Turnadot's golden cables are prone to oxidizing?



I never thought about that.  Now you have given me something to stress about!  That would be horrible if it does...it is such a beautiful and comfortable cable.


----------



## baskingshark

Hi this is my amateur review on the FAAEAL Datura Pro: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/faaeal-datura-pro.24124/reviews#review-23148


----------



## ClieOS

palestofwhite said:


> Anyone knows if the Turnadot's golden cables are prone to oxidizing?



Mine should be the oldest pair in the forum, and it doesn't show any sign of oxidization so far. 



jrazmar said:


> Hi ClieOS, how is Turandot vs. Maria? Im coming from the Liebesleid. I like everything about the Moondrop except for the fit which needs some fiddling. Which one to get next? Thanks.



Turandot and Maria are completely different. Turandot is musical and passionate, while Maria is calm and delicate - both are excellent in their own ways. As far as sound signature goes, I reckon Liebesleid is probably closer to Maria. But the truth is they are quite different enough that I don't consider either Turandot or Maria as 'direct upgrade' as far as sound signature goes.


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> Are you sure it died?  Maybe one of the cables came loose inside.... you could open it,  check, and re-solder if necessary.  Simple, right?



Yeah simple... if my first name was Hungry and my last name was Panda! 



> How does one sleep with buds?  I think all of mine would be destroyed if I did that.  Actually I doubt they would stay in my ears.





j4100 said:


> Easy, get a pk shell one. I use my pandas and I can lie on my side and they don't hurt my ears. Sometimes I wake up hours later to turn off the DAP and put the lot out of the way.



Yes, pk shells are more comfortable for sleeping. But, I don't want to bust any of the ones that I have - they're up in the $20 CAD region!


----------



## j4100

waynes world said:


> Yes, pk shells are more comfortable for sleeping. But, I don't want to bust any of the ones that I have - they're up in the $20 CAD region!



Hmmm. I don't have many more than the Pandas I have, as the rest are much more expensive. Looks like I need to buy more, but hopefully there are some cheap variants out there (haven't really looked prior to now). Mine are lasting well, but the cable is starting to have a bit of memory and that's starting to bug me. Kind of thought I was pretty much finished buying buds, but never thought of what happens if my sleepers get busted.

Damn


----------



## waynes world (Jan 13, 2020)

j4100 said:


> Hmmm. I don't have many more than the Pandas I have, as the rest are much more expensive. Looks like I need to buy more, but hopefully there are some cheap variants out there (haven't really looked prior to now). Mine are lasting well, but the cable is starting to have a bit of memory and that's starting to bug me.



Cables that turn into memory cables drive me nuts as well (I'm looking at you, silver cable buds!).



> Kind of thought I was pretty much finished buying buds, but never thought of what happens if my sleepers get busted.
> Damn



Gotta always have a reason to buy more buds!


----------



## fonkepala

waynes world said:


> I hear you. One of the drivers of my Silvers (Fengru TC200's) just died. Mind you, I've been using them as my sleeping buds for the last 6 months, which means _mucho_ abuse, so I'm kind of surprised that they lasted as long as they did. I must say that I got a lot of enjoyment out of those $4 buds... and I will again someday! (ie in 39-60 days when my next ones arrive).



Pity. Those TC200's sound pretty good! Don't quite like the cable though.

P.S: For sleeping, have you tried buds with the Monk Lite-type & Edifier H180-type shells? I find them to be the most comfortable for me by far.


----------



## j4100

Haha. I forgot I have a  couple of pairs of Monk lites. Too many earbuds when you forget what you have. Thanks for the reminder.


----------



## waynes world (Jan 13, 2020)

fonkepala said:


> Pity. Those TC200's sound pretty good! Don't quite like the cable though.
> 
> P.S: For sleeping, have you tried buds with the Monk Lite-type & Edifier H180-type shells? I find them to be the most comfortable for me by far.



Yes, I have Monk lites. Problem is that I fall asleep to trance, and I need to hear some of that "slappa the bass"...
(not that Rush plays trance, but it's a good segway lol)



Spoiler: RIP Neil!


----------



## fonkepala

waynes world said:


> Yes, I have Monk lites. Problem is that I fall asleep to trance, and I need to hear some of that "slappa the bass"...
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: RIP Neil!




Ahhh, I see. Well, I fall asleep listening to BBC Radio 4's shipping forecast. Lucky me, I guess ;p


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> Gotta always have a reason to buy more buds!



We need a reason?



j4100 said:


> Haha. I forgot I have a  couple of pairs of Monk lites. Too many earbuds when you forget what you have. Thanks for the reminder.



This is why I keep my profile list up to date.... and consult it now and again.


----------



## j4100

mbwilson111 said:


> We need a reason?
> 
> This is why I keep my profile list up to date.... and consult it now and again.



I generally keep mine up to date (apart from the last month). I just forget to look at it. 



waynes world said:


> (not that Rush plays trance..



I lost interest in Rush around the time of Hemispheres, but still remember the magic of a 16 year old at his second gig, in the front row at the Glasgow Apollo, listening to By-Tor and the Snow Dog on the Farewell To Kings tour, whilst my innards were being turned to jelly from the PA bass cabs in front of me, but unable to see much through the dry ice. Ahhh! Memories! 

RIP Neil.



fonkepala said:


> Ahhh, I see. Well, I fall asleep listening to BBC Radio 4's shipping forecast. Lucky me, I guess ;p



Understandable, though weird


----------



## j4100

I forgot to mention. My daughter liberated my Asda Mixx buds. She was visiting and broke her usual IEMs with mic, and they were the only ones I had with a mic (apart from some Vidos I couldn't find). Asda, I'm coming back.


----------



## jrazmar

ClieOS said:


> Mine should be the oldest pair in the forum, and it doesn't show any sign of oxidization so far.
> 
> 
> 
> Turandot and Maria are completely different. Turandot is musical and passionate, while Maria is calm and delicate - both are excellent in their own ways. As far as sound signature goes, I reckon Liebesleid is probably closer to Maria. But the truth is they are quite different enough that I don't consider either Turandot or Maria as 'direct upgrade' as far as sound signature goes.



Thanks ClieOS. So in your own opinion, what do you think is a considerable upgrade from Liebesleid? One that has a more friendly fit and has more bass presence?


----------



## fonkepala

j4100 said:


> Understandable, though weird



It's not weird at all  
See: https://mashable.com/article/shipping-forecast-compilations-sleep/


----------



## j4100

fonkepala said:


> It's not weird at all
> See: https://mashable.com/article/shipping-forecast-compilations-sleep/



I have no doubt it works, but it's still weird. 
My personal choice for dropping off is chilled psych or ambient electronica. Each to their own


----------



## Vrač

Hello folks! I've been an IEManiac for the past 6 months or so, but I need the low isolation provided by earbuds for the office. I received my KB Ear Knights a few days ago and I am pleasantly surprised with the sound, build quality and the price. However, I am afraid my ears are too big and while they do not fall out of my ears, they never have a tight fit. I have the black foam donuts that came with them on the earbuds, but I cannot, for the life of me see how to double them up. The bass is much better when they are physically pressed against the ear canal. Please advise if there is any workarounds I should look into, or another, thicker-shelled earbud I should consider.


----------



## ClieOS

jrazmar said:


> Thanks ClieOS. So in your own opinion, what do you think is a considerable upgrade from Liebesleid? One that has a more friendly fit and has more bass presence?



No idea. Liebesleid, for being both airy and detailed, is sort of a kind of its own. Being pretty much flagship level also make upgrading not easy.


----------



## chinmie

jrazmar said:


> Thanks ClieOS. So in your own opinion, what do you think is a considerable upgrade from Liebesleid? One that has a more friendly fit and has more bass presence?





ClieOS said:


> No idea. Liebesleid, for being both airy and detailed, is sort of a kind of its own. Being pretty much flagship level also make upgrading not easy.



agree on this. the only thing that reminds me of the Liebesleid signature is the Tinaudio T2 standard.. but that's more of a downgrade to be frank, especially the treble area. that's why the silver one still stays in my modest stable, because i can't find the worthy replacement yet to this day


----------



## wskl

Vrač said:


> Hello folks! I've been an IEManiac for the past 6 months or so, but I need the low isolation provided by earbuds for the office. I received my KB Ear Knights a few days ago and I am pleasantly surprised with the sound, build quality and the price. However, I am afraid my ears are too big and while they do not fall out of my ears, they never have a tight fit. I have the black foam donuts that came with them on the earbuds, but I cannot, for the life of me see how to double them up. The bass is much better when they are physically pressed against the ear canal. Please advise if there is any workarounds I should look into, or another, thicker-shelled earbud I should consider.



You could try putting silicone rings around the earbud and add foams over it.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32990499815.html

 

If that does not work for you, the only earbud in my collection which I find to be a bit larger than most is the NiceHCK ME80.


----------



## HungryPanda (Jan 14, 2020)

you could go up to MX760 size shells or get a monster like the Toneking TY2. Alternatively wear them over ear


----------



## fonkepala

Vrač said:


> Hello folks! I've been an IEManiac for the past 6 months or so, but I need the low isolation provided by earbuds for the office. I received my KB Ear Knights a few days ago and I am pleasantly surprised with the sound, build quality and the price. However, I am afraid my ears are too big and while they do not fall out of my ears, they never have a tight fit. I have the black foam donuts that came with them on the earbuds, but I cannot, for the life of me see how to double them up. The bass is much better when they are physically pressed against the ear canal. Please advise if there is any workarounds I should look into, or another, thicker-shelled earbud I should consider.



Have you tried just using the 'regular' full foams instead of the donuts? Personally I find that full foams (dense ones, not the porous/very thin ones) gives me a better & fuss-free fit most of the time compared to donuts. Hope this helps.


----------



## dyk828

Hello, I have a Zen 1 with a broken cable.  Looking for recabling advice ... any recommendation on good cable?


----------



## Mhog55

Can someone point me in the right direction, as to where I can find some some of the thinner full foams, or where I can source a variety package? I only have relatively thick ones.


----------



## assassin10000

Mhog55 said:


> Can someone point me in the right direction, as to where I can find some some of the thinner full foams, or where I can source a variety package? I only have relatively thick ones.



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2776#post-14912001


----------



## dialogue (Jan 15, 2020)

hai. i have ourart acg. dominant on high freq & mid freq. and the low freq is weak. and the cable i think is just average. because of that, i think  the potential of this earbud not maximal perform. any reccomend for better cable to upgrade acg? i want to upgrade the low freq especially sub bass. but not really change the authentic tonal / Sound signature from this earbud, which is stay focus on high and mid freq. i hope the micro detil will upgrade too, and soundstage will better wider. thank you very much.

nb. the budget under 45$


----------



## munchzilla

hi again everyone - I finally received my Toneking TO600 after a month or so waiting... and I have a few impressions and questions here:

while I am impressed with how they are performing, I think the sound signature might not be for me. 

they have great imaging/staging for an earbud, and definitely sounds really detailed and clean, even extends really well. technically competent for sure...
"mid"-mids are good too, and the bass is really snappy and quick.
most of midrange is really clean, voices are extremely clear, and they don't sound tinny or nasal at all. and there is no annoying sibilance that I can detect.

but-
to be honest, I was expecting a bit more midrange warmth, I'm not sure if it's because of fit - but the midrange sounds quite thin to me, and there is a little bit of peakiness in 5-6k, that makes some music a little too sparkly/splashy for me.
it's not at all harsh or sibilant, just a little brighter than I was hoping for.

so I'm wondering... is there any earbud that might be smoother and even warmer sounding than this one, that also happens to have a detachable cable? sadly the cable part is really important for me, because there seems to be a lot of good options if you forego this 
I don't have a budget set, but I'd prefer to keep it less than $300 - and these TO600 earbuds did really set a high bar for me now in technical performance.

cheers and thanks everyone for the TO600 impressions, I do find the ones I read about here to be very accurate - I just happen to be even more of a warm-sound-lover, it seems


----------



## Mhog55

munchzilla said:


> hi again everyone - I finally received my Toneking TO600 after a month or so waiting... and I have a few impressions and questions here:
> 
> while I am impressed with how they are performing, I think the sound signature might not be for me.
> 
> ...


You can try the TO180. Your description - reasons are the way I chose to order it. Haven't received it yet, but it's supposed to be the warmest of the bunch. Won't be as technically satisfying though. I think the higher ohm rating you go within the Toneking series, the dryer sound you will get. I could be wrong though.


----------



## munchzilla

Mhog55 said:


> You can try the TO180. Your description - reasons are the way I chose to order it. Haven't received it yet, but it's supposed to be the warmest of the bunch. Won't be as technically satisfying though. I think the higher ohm rating you go within the Toneking series, the dryer sound you will get. I could be wrong though.



that sounds more like my "jam", from reviews and your description...

I did just notice another thing after using them for about 5 more hours to try and get used to them... they're a little bit big with my preferred foams... 

out of curiousity, I wouldn't mind trying something smaller - but I have honestly no idea whatsoever if there even are any available with a warmer sound, and it seems most detachable cable ones are on the larger side of things.

perhaps I could try something without detachable cable, but I'd have to consider if I want to spend much money on that or not...

thank you for the reply!


----------



## Mhog55

munchzilla said:


> that sounds more like my "jam", from reviews and your description...
> 
> I did just notice another thing after using them for about 5 more hours to try and get used to them... they're a little bit big with my preferred foams...
> 
> ...


Have you tried the **** Bk2? Inexpensive, warm and pretty dynamic for an earbud. The Smabat M1 Pro isn't bad either - a little more neutral. Neither are my least favorite 3 D's. Dark - Distant - Dry. Removable cables on both. Another warmer tuned bud that often pops up is the Willsound mk2. I'm actually going to order that right now. Thanks for the reminder hahaha


----------



## munchzilla (Jan 15, 2020)

Mhog55 said:


> Have you tried the **** Bk2? Inexpensive, warm and pretty dynamic for an earbud. The Smabat M1 Pro isn't bad either - a little more neutral. Neither are my least favorite 3 D's. Dark - Distant - Dry. Removable cables on both. Another warmer tuned bud that often pops up is the Willsound mk2. I'm actually going to order that right now. Thanks for the reminder hahaha



to be honest, I'm very much a noob when it comes to earbuds - I have tried a BLOX pair, and Shozy BK (which I really enjoyed, but had a little peakiness to them that I found annoying at times - although I dare say overall I prefer it more than the TO600). and now the Toneking TO600, as well as the NiceHCK Vido (the blue version with microphone).
also tried the VE Monk many years back - but I found the Vido much better overall.

I haven't tried that one, but it does seem like a lot of people really enjoy it at their price point.
however, I did read about them when trying to decide the first purchase, and read that the midrange can be a tad bright - upper midrange and lower treble mostly. I am very sensitive to those regions especially, so it's a bit of a nightmare finding something that I can enjoy for a longer period of time.

the Smabat also seems to suffer from a similar thing, and they seem to be just as large as the Tonekings with a ~15 (.4?) mm driver IIRC - so I'm not entirely sure about these either 

Willsound MK2 from what I've gathered also has a bit aggressive upper-mids... at least in some of the reviews I've read.

sorry if I'm being really picky - it's definitely not easy when there are no earbuds to try out locally... 

edit: I suppose I like one of the "D's" that you mentioned - the Dark one...
I like a little warm, a little darker.


----------



## Mhog55

munchzilla said:


> to be honest, I'm very much a noob when it comes to earbuds - I have tried a BLOX pair, and Shozy BK (which I really enjoyed, but had a little peakiness to them that I found annoying at times - although I dare say overall I prefer it more than the TO600). and now the Toneking TO600, as well as the NiceHCK Vido (the blue version with microphone).
> also tried the VE Monk many years back - but I found the Vido much better overall.
> 
> I haven't tried that one, but it does seem like a lot of people really enjoy it at their price point.
> ...


All of those peaks and dips seem to be fairly simple to EQ in my experience. Most earbuds seem to be tuned with a mids focus. As long as they don't sound light and hollow, you should be good. M1 Pro and Bk2 are both 14.8 mm. The Tonekings are bigger.


----------



## MrFaust

So I've been out of this game for 5-7 years now. I got pulled back in with the recent chi-fi iems like the Blon BL-03 and Tin T4. I'm enjoying how awesome and inexpensive some gear has become since I left this place.  And as much as I enjoy these, I'm curious if anyone can give me ideas on the iems with the best imaging and sound stage. 

I was/am a fan of the Beyerdynamic Tesla T1 (gen1 since gen2 hadn't come out yet) and I'm curious if anyone knows of a set of iems that sound anything similar to those as far as imaging and sound stage.


----------



## baskingshark

MrFaust said:


> So I've been out of this game for 5-7 years now. I got pulled back in with the recent chi-fi iems like the Blon BL-03 and Tin T4. I'm enjoying how awesome and inexpensive some gear has become since I left this place.  And as much as I enjoy these, I'm curious if anyone can give me ideas on the iems with the best imaging and sound stage.
> 
> I was/am a fan of the Beyerdynamic Tesla T1 (gen1 since gen2 hadn't come out yet) and I'm curious if anyone knows of a set of iems that sound anything similar to those as far as imaging and sound stage.



Hi friend, this is a earbuds thread, not really for IEMs. I think u can ask your IEM query here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chinese-asian-brand-iem-info-thread.820747/ or https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...nd-impressions-sharing-reference-list.805930/

TBH most IEMs are weak in soundstage width compared to headphones and buds, simply as a matter of physics as the transducer is inside the ear canal, so it would be hard to find an IEM with comparable soundstage width coming directly from cans (especially open backed headphones). But IEMs are more for their isolation and portability, so different cons and pros between the different transducers (buds vs IEMs vs cans).

Anyways good luck in your search! I could recommend u some IEMs via PM but unfortunately i haven't tried the Beyerdynamic Tesla T1 to compare it.


----------



## munchzilla

Mhog55 said:


> All of those peaks and dips seem to be fairly simple to EQ in my experience. Most earbuds seem to be tuned with a mids focus. As long as they don't sound light and hollow, you should be good. M1 Pro and Bk2 are both 14.8 mm. The Tonekings are bigger.



ahh I see - I thought the next size down would be 14mm! but I suppose that little extra diameter makes a noticeable difference.

I really wish I could do some simple EQ'ing but I have to switch what device I use all the time - I have an iFi USB DAC/amp that I connect to different PC's on a very regular basis, and I use speakers that don't need EQ at home as well.
it gets a little tedious with turning it on/off all the time, unfortunately 

thank you for the suggestion and the size info!


----------



## assassin10000

munchzilla said:


> the Smabat also seems to suffer from a similar thing, and they seem to be just as large as the Tonekings with a ~15 (.4?) mm driver IIRC - so I'm not entirely sure about these either



Is it a diameter issue or a thickness issue that you are having with the tonekings?

Which Smabat? The M1 is a 14.8mm and O.D. & thickness is smaller than the tonekings afaik. The ST-10 is 15.4mm but it's fit is MUCH thinner in how it slots into the ear.


----------



## Mhog55

munchzilla said:


> ahh I see - I thought the next size down would be 14mm! but I suppose that little extra diameter makes a noticeable difference.
> 
> I really wish I could do some simple EQ'ing but I have to switch what device I use all the time - I have an iFi USB DAC/amp that I connect to different PC's on a very regular basis, and I use speakers that don't need EQ at home as well.
> it gets a little tedious with turning it on/off all the time, unfortunately
> ...


I've found only 1 headphone I felt didn't need some minor EQ work... Amongst several. 660s


----------



## munchzilla (Jan 15, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Is it a diameter issue or a thickness issue that you are having with the tonekings?
> 
> Which Smabat? The M1 is a 14.8mm and O.D. & thickness is smaller than the tonekings afaik. The ST-10 is 15.4mm but it's fit is MUCH thinner in how it slots into the ear.



I believe it's diameter, I get a lot of pressure where the earbud touches my ears, and after about an hour I feel it's a little much and feels a bit sore, especially if I move my mouth. the Vido also do, but I never really use them long enough where it's a problem.
my idea was to use the TO600 for work and such during the day, so comfort is a big issue here.

did not experience this with some older earbuds that I had, but they were not hi-fi or even remotely good sounding... 

and it was the M1 Pro, I believe, that was suggested. I really wish I could try these - but, I do fear that the sound won't be for me. some of the reviews here on HF suggest the midrange is a little thin and lower mids are more recessed than upper mids.

thank you very much for the info, I really have to be careful with what I select now 



Mhog55 said:


> I've found only 1 headphone I felt didn't need some minor EQ work... Amongst several. 660s



yeah. I can definitely understand that... HD660s tonal balance is spot on for me.

I've tried a bunch of headphones but have sold off most of my collection after trying speakers at home for a while... 
the LCD-2/3, LCD2 classic, to an extent Focal Clear & Utopia, and HD650/660s are some of the few that I enjoyed a lot without EQ.
and, a few of the STAX offerings.

anyway, got a little Off-Topic here


----------



## larry piencenaves (Jan 16, 2020)

munchzilla said:


> hi again everyone - I finally received my Toneking TO600 after a month or so waiting... and I have a few impressions and questions here:
> 
> while I am impressed with how they are performing, I think the sound signature might not be for me.
> 
> ...



Try the Toneking Unicorn, I think this has the sound signature you're looking for, I find it warm sounding with the stock cables or using pure copper cables


----------



## fonkepala

munchzilla said:


> that sounds more like my "jam", from reviews and your description...
> 
> I did just notice another thing after using them for about 5 more hours to try and get used to them... they're a little bit big with my preferred foams...
> 
> ...



Considering your requirement of a good-sounding, comfortable earbud with detachable cables, have you considered just getting one that has the most comfortable shell for your ears & with a sound signature that you prefer and then have them MMCX-modded? I have one guy locally who does MMCX mods quite frequently and according to him, it's not that difficult to do. On the EA FB group, there are lots of other modders who are able to do this as well. Just a thought.


----------



## munchzilla

fonkepala said:


> Considering your requirement of a good-sounding, comfortable earbud with detachable cables, have you considered just getting one that has the most comfortable shell for your ears & with a sound signature that you prefer and then have them MMCX-modded? I have one guy locally who does MMCX mods quite frequently and according to him, it's not that difficult to do. On the EA FB group, there are lots of other modders who are able to do this as well. Just a thought.



I was just now reading up about how to get it done - definitely considering it!! 

don't know anyone who would be willing to do it, yet... but I'll have to look around.

now, if I do this, I just have to find an earbud that fits my ears and has a good sound signature. the main challenge, I think 

Thank you very much!


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

So I am wondering as of now January 2020 what is considered money is no object TOTL high end earbuds? And are they worth it compared to the sub $125 groupings?


----------



## DivineCurrent

I've been here for a while, yet somehow I failed to notice this dedicated earbuds thread. 
I've been using the Monk Plus for a few years, and last year I got the Clear SPC edition. My original Monk Plus had volume differences in each earbud, left was softer than the right. But the new one sounds just great.

I also was using them only with the foams, but it wasn't till today I took off the foams and listened more carefully. The veil has been lifted so to speak, bass is tighter and highs are clearer. Still rolled off sub bass as to be expected from an earbud. I didn't think taking off the foams would make this big a difference, but it does. I will experiment later with the rubber rings. 

I'm considering the Zen 2.0, but I worry they are significantly warmer than the Monk Plus according to reviews. Can anyone comment on this? I should hope they have just as good detail as the Monks or better, especially for $148.

I'm also looking for something more comfortable than the Monk and Zen shell style, even if it's a sidegrade in sound quality to the Monk.


----------



## the diode

DivineCurrent said:


> I've been here for a while, yet somehow I failed to notice this dedicated earbuds thread.
> I've been using the Monk Plus for a few years, and last year I got the Clear SPC edition. My original Monk Plus had volume differences in each earbud, left was softer than the right. But the new one sounds just great.
> 
> I also was using them only with the foams, but it wasn't till today I took off the foams and listened more carefully. The veil has been lifted so to speak, bass is tighter and highs are clearer. Still rolled off sub bass as to be expected from an earbud. I didn't think taking off the foams would make this big a difference, but it does. I will experiment later with the rubber rings.
> ...



I was in the same position a while back. I love the Zen 2.0 but I dont like the shell that it uses so much. When the Zen Lite and Zen LL came out I gave those a try and Love the Zen LL. Much more secure in the ear and not as warm as the Zen 2.0. I loved them so much I got the Zen LL DICE, basically an upgraded cable. Those have been my go to since I got them. The regular Zen LL isnt priced too high either. Maybe give those a try.  Then post your thoughts here. I will be curious to see what you think.


----------



## DivineCurrent

the diode said:


> I was in the same position a while back. I love the Zen 2.0 but I dont like the shell that it uses so much. When the Zen Lite and Zen LL came out I gave those a try and Love the Zen LL. Much more secure in the ear and not as warm as the Zen 2.0. I loved them so much I got the Zen LL DICE, basically an upgraded cable. Those have been my go to since I got them. The regular Zen LL isnt priced too high either. Maybe give those a try.  Then post your thoughts here. I will be curious to see what you think.


Thanks for the suggestion, they look like they would be a much better fit in the ear. I'll definitely consider them. Do you notice any other sonic differences between the Zen 2.0 and LL besides the LL being not as warm?


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Jan 16, 2020)

Simphonio Dragon 3


Spoiler



https://penonaudio.com/simphonio-dragon-3.html


Aiwa HP-V88


Spoiler



https://m.yoycart.com/Product/567243041610/


----------



## csglinux

headenvelopedinsound said:


> So I am wondering as of now January 2020 what is considered money is no object TOTL high end earbuds? And are they worth it compared to the sub $125 groupings?


Moondrop Chaconne and Shozy BK. To me, they're worth the price difference.


----------



## audiophizile

Was looking at the monk plus. Hard to not buy something so hyped for $10 on Amazon. Is there anything a step up from this in the $25-50 range? I was mainly looking at iems at first but think these may be a better fit for me. I posted this in the iem thread but applies here:

Sound preference is clarity, detail, separation above all.
Prefer speed in the low end. Don't hate a small midbass kick (normie).
Don't really like OVERLY dark and/or warm as that CAN conflict with my main preferences.
Mids clean and not overly recessed, present. Dislike when the lower end of voices (male or female) sound thin.
Highs I like "glassy" (I use this word, I know nobody else does). I like cymbals to have detail and clarity. If anyone here plays the drums, I like to be able distinguish the tones of different types and sizes of cymbals (and snares) and their decay. I feel like not many speakers (or recordings for that matter) do this well.
Don't like a small soundstage. I feel it can go both ways with detail and separation. Too big and airy I feel can be non realistic outside of orchestral recordings and lose small detail. Too small gets congested in complex parts. Congestion bothers me greatly.


----------



## mochill

https://penonaudio.com/simphonio-dragon-3.html

Audiophile basshead earbud???


----------



## Mhog55

mochill said:


> https://penonaudio.com/simphonio-dragon-3.html
> 
> Audiophile basshead earbud???


500 bucks? Nope, never.


----------



## tukangketik

audiophizile said:


> Was looking at the monk plus. Hard to not buy something so hyped for $10 on Amazon. Is there anything a step up from this in the $25-50 range? I was mainly looking at iems at first but think these may be a better fit for me. I posted this in the iem thread but applies here:
> 
> Sound preference is clarity, detail, separation above all.
> Prefer speed in the low end. Don't hate a small midbass kick (normie).
> ...



Boarseman MX98 might suit this description. I often use it to listen (power/prog) metal playlist. if you wanted more soundstage and midbass you can opt for TY-hiz 150S which is more expensive than MX98


----------



## fonkepala

munchzilla said:


> I was just now reading up about how to get it done - definitely considering it!!
> 
> don't know anyone who would be willing to do it, yet... but I'll have to look around.
> 
> ...



You're welcome. Yes, finding an earbud with a comfort level & sound signature that you like is already challenging enough, but finding one that also has detachable cables would have probably been nigh impossible. If you want, I can send you some photos of MMCX-modded earbuds that a friend of mine got recently. The MMCX ports can be attached directly to the shell or alternatively onto a short 'lead' prior to the shell.

Also, I don't know...describing your preferred sound signature certainly helps, but since we all hear differently and that one audiophile term could mean a whole different thing from one person to the next, the extent to which it is helpful probably reaches a limit at some point; point at which it would probably make more sense to go bite the proverbial bullet & go ahead & buy several earbuds that look promising and then test them out, in the hopes that you can A) narrow down your preferred shell & sound signature even more and B) hopefully be one step closer to that 'one bud' that does it all for you. IMO, the probability of getting that one perfect bud just going on what is posted here is rather small, especially when one has very specific tastes & preferences. Just my $0.02, of course. And yes, this would be a lot less economically feasible if your country imposes high customs tax on any audio gear purchased online.



headenvelopedinsound said:


> So I am wondering as of now January 2020 what is considered money is no object TOTL high end earbuds? And are they worth it compared to the sub $125 groupings?



CAX Red Dragon? Also I think ClieOS posted about a $500 earbud a few pages back.


----------



## fonkepala

Alex.Grimm said:


> Simphonio Dragon 3
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



Wow! That AIWA for close to $5000 anyone?


----------



## subwoof3r

fonkepala said:


> Wow! That AIWA for close to $5000 anyone?


1st april is soon, not yet


----------



## rkw (Jan 17, 2020)

fonkepala said:


> Wow! That AIWA for close to $5000 anyone?


They are 30 year old vintage earbuds that have become collectors items. The collectibles market is a subculture in itself with their own pricing structure based on rarity, uniqueness, and age. I suppose that if it is new as advertised, it would be extremely rare. Here is a used one that sold for $777: https://www.ebay.com/itm/AIWA-HP-V9...gendary-100-working-extreme-rare/153742354309


----------



## dyk828

dyk828 said:


> Hello, I have a Zen 1 with a broken cable.  Looking for recabling advice ... any recommendation on good cable?



Hello, any thoughts?  Thanks


----------



## mochill

dyk828 said:


> Hello, any thoughts?  Thanks


Faaeal litz copper cable


----------



## dyk828

mochill said:


> Faaeal litz copper cable



Thanks.  This one https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000400771561.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.1.7db74fdaJ2qyV6 ?


----------



## mochill

dyk828 said:


> Thanks.  This one https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000400771561.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.1.7db74fdaJ2qyV6 ?


Yup


----------



## golov17

@ClieOS, the impedance of Rose Maria is not indicated anywhere, could you measure it?


----------



## ClieOS

golov17 said:


> @ClieOS, the impedance of Rose Maria is not indicated anywhere, could you measure it?



Of course I can




 

A typical spec will probably lists Maria as 10 ohm @ 1kHz, but as with multi-driver IEM, the impedance curve is not a straight line but a curved one, going from around 16ohm @ 20Hz and drop to 10ohm @ 10kHz. This means 2 things: First, you want your source's output impedance to be very low, ideally under 1 ohm so it won't affect Maria's FR curve. Secondly, you want your source to have decent output current as low impedance load like Maria needs more current to sound good.


----------



## theresanarc

Bit of a silly request but can anyone recommend budget tips that sound really good with these two albums without the volume being loud? I might already own them but was curious what's out there.

Keane - Hopes & Fears

The Jezabels - Prisoner


----------



## fonkepala

theresanarc said:


> Bit of a silly request but can anyone recommend budget tips that sound really good with these two albums without the volume being loud? I might already own them but was curious what's out there.
> 
> Keane - Hopes & Fears
> 
> The Jezabels - Prisoner



Budget tips?


----------



## Onionlover

Just received R4YS and they sound good IF I could get a proper fit with them. The shells are too big for my ears.

From reading, I think I will be better of with Yuin PK1 shell earbuds? I think I will go all out now and get the Smabat M1 Pro, so are they the same size as Yuin PK1?


----------



## theresanarc

theresanarc said:


> Bit of a silly request but can anyone recommend budget tips that sound really good with these two albums without the volume being loud? I might already own them but was curious what's out there.
> 
> Keane - Hopes & Fears
> 
> The Jezabels - Prisoner





fonkepala said:


> Budget tips?



Earbuds, I meant to say earbuds.


----------



## ironbrewer

baskingshark said:


> Hi this is my amateur review on the FAAEAL Datura Pro: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/faaeal-datura-pro.24124/reviews#review-23148


I got my Datura pro throught the lucky box, and I was not as lucky as you. My cable is black and thin with a mic. I was so excited when I saw your post. Not sure if it is just lucky box recipients or random use of equipment. They do sound pretty good though.


----------



## baskingshark

ironbrewer said:


> I got my Datura pro throught the lucky box, and I was not as lucky as you. My cable is black and thin with a mic. I was so excited when I saw your post. Not sure if it is just lucky box recipients or random use of equipment. They do sound pretty good though.



That's a bummer. I wasn't aware they had differently cabled sets. It's still non detachable?
But I guess as long as the Datura Pro sounds good, that's fair enough. It is still tuned the same I would presume?


----------



## fonkepala

theresanarc said:


> Earbuds, I meant to say earbuds.



I'm listening to Hopes & Fears right now with the volume turned down lower than my normal listening levels. Will get back to you later with my findings.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

The new Vido Blue+Red no mic  began to be sold in the Philippines, perhaps soon will be available on Aliexpress



Spoiler


----------



## Alex.Grimm

ironbrewer said:


> I got my Datura pro throught the lucky box, and I was not as lucky as you. My cable is black and thin with a mic. I was so excited when I saw your post. Not sure if it is just lucky box recipients or random use of equipment. They do sound pretty good though.



Could you send the photo?


----------



## fonkepala

Alex.Grimm said:


> The new Vido Blue+Red no mic  began to be sold in the Philippines, perhaps soon will be available on Aliexpress
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler



Saw that earlier on the EA FB group, but thought it was the work of a modder. So this is made by the 'original' Vido manufacturer?


----------



## subwoof3r

fonkepala said:


> Saw that earlier on the EA FB group, but thought it was the work of a modder. So this is made by the 'original' Vido manufacturer?


The original post on EA group says that it also has improved highs, I don't think so then..


----------



## subwoof3r

Long time I did not had any new common earbuds (else than DIY ) ! just received today my *ISN Audio Rambo* (from Penon Audio).
It's quite a nice surprise I would say, nice details, a bit on the bright side overall but acceptable with some kind of sparkle and very good details, good mids extension and presence, but a bit bass light thought, while bass is definitely audible.
Large but coherent soundstage. Overall very pleased with this PK alternative.
I will make a full review soon, so time for some burn-in days and see if it makes some sonical changements (or not) 
Cheers'*
*


----------



## ClieOS

ZEVA SuperFire Pro
K's Earphone's Bell-Ti Onmyoji (阴阳师)
K's Earphone's Little Black Bell S (小黑铃s)
Rose Tech Maria


----------



## bjk8kds

ClieOS said:


> 匠音  双动圈平头塞 (dual dynamic)
> Toneking Unicorn
> 调音师 / 宏韵电声 HY1000 (方丈)
> Z&W Panda (PK2S)



HY1000 and HYCK100 is the same?
Is it dual driver?


----------



## ClieOS

bjk8kds said:


> HY1000 and HYCK100 is the same?
> Is it dual driver?



They are the same earbud. I have my doubt that it is a dual drivers, but I never see the inner to say otherwise.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Jan 21, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> They are the same earbud. I have my doubt that it is a dual drivers, but I never see the inner to say otherwise.



It's not FENGRU HYCK100? Its LCK1298 or M1S?


Spoiler



https://a.aliexpress.com/_Ue3i1
https://a.aliexpress.com/_UqwAB


----------



## bjk8kds

Alex.Grimm said:


> FENGRU HYCK100?
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


I mean this unit
https://a.aliexpress.com/_sDK6Zv
Don't know there's other (different) unit with same name(?)
It's confusing, haha..


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Jan 21, 2020)

bjk8kds said:


> Don't know there's other (different) unit with same name(?)
> It's confusing, haha..



I found on taobao this is called DIY LCK1298 or DIY M1S

Your link is correct to the original HYCK100/HY1000


----------



## assassin10000 (Jan 21, 2020)

Modded my K's LBB. 

Does not seem quite as dark once modded, the original cable is not sealed where it goes into the housing. So this mod closes up a large vent.





Probably never doing that again.


----------



## MonTay

Well despite the lack of recommendations on my post in the intro forum I decided to dive in with a few buds after reading wayyyy too much of this thread. I also purchased a fiio x3ii as my first dap since my phone is always out of storage.






These are the Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0+ CE and the Earbuds Anonymous EA buds. I got the EA buds and I thought they sounded good but struggled a bit with irritation from the fit. Then I got the Snow Lotus 1.0+ and wow they sound great. So good, that I haven't really listened to the EA buds very much since. The sound stage and imaging is much better on the Snow Lotus and it also seems to have more bass extension. This is most notable when gaming, I can tell footstep positions much better with the Snow Lotus (on par with my ATH-AD700X). I struggle to tell a difference with sound stage when listening to music. The cable on the EA buds is nicer/lighter but the SL has a more premium feeling 3.5mm jack. Both came with high quality foams and I can't tell a difference between the included and the hiegi ones I ordered (except maybe in QC). I'm using 1 regular + 1 donut on both as I found the extra padding of double foams made them less prone to irritation. I'm not much for describing sound signatures but I can say that I really enjoy the SL.

Still have the R4YS on the way but as far as budget buds, I think I'm pretty happy.


----------



## fonkepala

MonTay said:


> Well despite the lack of recommendations on my post in the intro forum I decided to dive in with a few buds after reading wayyyy too much of this thread. I also purchased a fiio x3ii as my first dap since my phone is always out of storage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you for sharing. What does the CE stand for?


----------



## ballog

MonTay said:


> Well despite the lack of recommendations on my post in the intro forum I decided to dive in with a few buds after reading wayyyy too much of this thread. I also purchased a fiio x3ii as my first dap since my phone is always out of storage.
> These are the Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0+ CE and the Earbuds Anonymous EA buds. I got the EA buds and I thought they sounded good but struggled a bit with irritation from the fit. Then I got the Snow Lotus 1.0+ and wow they sound great. So good, that I haven't really listened to the EA buds very much since. The sound stage and imaging is much better on the Snow Lotus and it also seems to have more bass extension. This is most notable when gaming, I can tell footstep positions much better with the Snow Lotus (on par with my ATH-AD700X). I struggle to tell a difference with sound stage when listening to music. The cable on the EA buds is nicer/lighter but the SL has a more premium feeling 3.5mm jack. Both came with high quality foams and I can't tell a difference between the included and the hiegi ones I ordered (except maybe in QC). I'm using 1 regular + 1 donut on both as I found the extra padding of double foams made them less prone to irritation. I'm not much for describing sound signatures but I can say that I really enjoy the SL.
> 
> Still have the R4YS on the way but as far as budget buds, I think I'm pretty happy.



@MonTay Hey is the Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0+ CE still available on Aliexpress?


----------



## MonTay

fonkepala said:


> Thank you for sharing. What does the CE stand for?



Commemorative Edition.



ballog said:


> @MonTay Hey is the Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0+ CE still available on Aliexpress?



I purchased them on the 7th from the faaeal aliexpress store. Might order another and re-cable it when it arrives in a month.


----------



## subwoof3r

MonTay said:


> Well despite the lack of recommendations on my post in the intro forum I decided to dive in with a few buds after reading wayyyy too much of this thread. I also purchased a fiio x3ii as my first dap since my phone is always out of storage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Snow Lotus 1.0+ is definitely one of the best imaging earbuds I tried yet. Very good mids and treble too, althought a bit bass light for my tastes (so it requires a bit of amp in this section for best results).
Good choice!



MonTay said:


> Might order another and re-cable it when it arrives in a month.


Good luck, because I tried to dismantle 1 of my 2 pairs and I completely scratched one drivers trying to open it, even with a LOT of airdryer (and for a very long time), so I decided to give up.
There seems to have a LOT of glue inside, so beware.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

MonTay said:


> Well despite the lack of recommendations on my post in the intro forum I decided to dive in with a few buds after reading wayyyy too much of this thread.



If you want updates, you can try The Kube v1, RY4S Plus MMCX, Sabia v7, Willsound MK2, The KubePlus


----------



## fonkepala

MonTay said:


> Commemorative Edition.



Ah, ok. Wonder if the regular Snow Lotus 1.0 will sound as good as the CE version. Also, what are the differences between the two...shell?


----------



## subwoof3r

fonkepala said:


> Ah, ok. Wonder if the regular Snow Lotus 1.0 will sound as good as the CE version. Also, what are the differences between the two...shell?


I had 1.0 (before making it MMXC) and the 1.0+ sounds even better than 1.0 (at least to me). Larger and deeper soundstage, better imaging and definition, slightly mids and highs (from what I remember).
FAAEAL claimed that the only difference between 1.0 and 1.0+ is just the cable (OFC for 1.0 and silver plated for 1.0+, from what I read behind the original boxes, everything else remains the exact same specs).


----------



## MonTay

Alex.Grimm said:


> If you want updates, you can try The Kube v1, RY4S Plus MMCX, Sabia v7, Willsound MK2, The KubePlus



yes Willsound MK2 is on my list to try. I hope to also try some of the more expensive options ($100+) because I am curious how much of a difference there is between budget and TOTL. Maybe I will buy on Amazon and then return if I am not impressed.


----------



## ironbrewer (Jan 22, 2020)

Alex.Grimm said:


> Could you send the photo?









Alex.Grimm said:


> Could you send the photo?








Here is a comparison. Sorry it took so long. I was waiting on a replacement phone. My camera was screwed up.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Jan 22, 2020)

ironbrewer said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Have you opened a dispute?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

The Facebook Group *Earbuds Anonymous* I started just over 3 years ago just hit 10,000 members! Such an amazing community!

If you are interested, check it out for yourself: https://www.facebook.com/groups/EarbudsAnonymous/

https://penonaudio.com/earbuds-anonymous.html


----------



## ironbrewer

Alex.Grimm said:


> Have you opened a dispute?



What justification would I have for a dispute? I got it through the luckybox. It is a crapshoot, but saved some money. Honestly had I known I probably would have paid the full price though and gotten the nicer cable.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Jan 22, 2020)

ironbrewer said:


> What justification would I have for a dispute? I got it through the luckybox. It is a crapshoot, but saved some money. Honestly had I known I probably would have paid the full price though and gotten the nicer cable.



To differ from the original in their store, in the reviews for the lucky bag of photos of the received product. I think you would be returned part of the cost



Spoiler


----------



## mbwilson111

ironbrewer said:


> What justification would I have for a dispute? I got it through the luckybox. It is a crapshoot, but saved some money. Honestly had I known I probably would have paid the full price though and gotten the nicer cable.



My husband and I each bought the lucky bag and we each received the Datura Pro with the nice cable as shown in your first photo.  No mic.  I just looked at a few listings and there is no mic option and no black cables.  What did it say on your box?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

mbwilson111 said:


> My husband and I each bought the lucky bag and we each received the Datura Pro with the nice cable as shown in your first photo.  No mic.  I just looked at a few listings and there is no mic option and no black cables.  What did it say on your box?



Its cable from old faaeal 64. maybe someone in the factory decided to joke


----------



## fonkepala

subwoof3r said:


> I had 1.0 (before making it MMXC) and the 1.0+ sounds even better than 1.0 (at least to me). Larger and deeper soundstage, better imaging and definition, slightly mids and highs (from what I remember).
> FAAEAL claimed that the only difference between 1.0 and 1.0+ is just the cable (OFC for 1.0 and silver plated for 1.0+, from what I read behind the original boxes, everything else remains the exact same specs).



Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware there was an SL 1.0 AND SL 1.0+. I think I'll go and order the 1.0+ now


----------



## bjk8kds

Old JVC earbud from JVC pocket radio


----------



## 40760

Seems like no more earbuds till after the Chinese New Year period...


----------



## Alex.Grimm

fonkepala said:


> Saw that earlier on the EA FB group, but thought it was the work of a modder. So this is made by the 'original' Vido manufacturer?





Spoiler


----------



## j4100

Alex.Grimm said:


> Spoiler



Even better than different coloured foams!


----------



## subwoof3r

Alex.Grimm said:


> Spoiler


At least if its made by a modder you can be sure there will always be much better QC ^^


----------



## Alex.Grimm

j4100 said:


> Even better than different coloured foams!



"These new red/blue colorway are some what more neutral to the previous vidos. Bass is much lighter impact/punch/faster than red vidos that I have sub bass are still there but not to deep. Mids are clear more enjoyable. Treble region are airer and shines than the previous vidos." (c) PJ Nanasca


----------



## mbwilson111

Alex.Grimm said:


> "These new red/blue colorway are some what more neutral to the previous vidos. Bass is much lighter impact/punch/faster than red vidos that I have sub bass are still there but not to deep. Mids are clear more enjoyable. Treble region are airer and shines than the previous vidos." (c) PJ Nanasca



I know I would like them.  How can we get them?


----------



## mbwilson111

bjk8kds said:


> Old JVC earbud from JVC pocket radio



I found an old bud in the back of my closet that apparently was bundled with a phone (not smartphone) that I had more than ten years ago.  I don't think I paid any attention to it at the time... it was never taken out of the packaging.  The connector was made for the Samsung E250.

My husband recabled it the other day and I can't stop listening.  I don't know what the drivers are but these sound great to me.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

mbwilson111 said:


> I know I would like them.  How can we get them?


If you have friends from the Philippines. You can ask to buy this for you and send it to you. Or wait for the appearance on sale on Aliexpress


----------



## fonkepala

Alex.Grimm said:


> If you have friends from the Philippines. You can ask to buy this for you and send it to you. Or wait for the appearance on sale on Aliexpress



How come they go on sale in the Philippines earlier than Aliexpress? Were they made by a PH modder?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

fonkepala said:


> How come they go on sale in the Philippines earlier than Aliexpress? Were they made by a PH modder?


I think they are available on taobao too.  On aliexpress, red vido species also appeared after some time


----------



## mbwilson111

Alex.Grimm said:


> I think they are available on taobao too.  On aliexpress, red vido species also appeared after some time



I think I have some buds I can use while I wait.


----------



## DBaldock9

mbwilson111 said:


> I think I have some buds I can use while I wait.




...one or two...


----------



## bjk8kds

mbwilson111 said:


> I found an old bud in the back of my closet that apparently was bundled with a phone (not smartphone) that I had more than ten years ago.  I don't think I paid any attention to it at the time... it was never taken out of the packaging.  The connector was made for the Samsung E250.
> 
> My husband recabled it the other day and I can't stop listening.  I don't know what the drivers are but these sound great to me.


Wow.. Great..! 
Unfortunately, this JVC buds sounds terrible, like old speakers, but at first try, it reminds me of old time, feels nostalgic..


----------



## mbwilson111

bjk8kds said:


> Wow.. Great..!
> Unfortunately, this JVC buds sounds terrible, like old speakers, but at first try, it reminds me of old time, feels nostalgic..



Put some new drivers in it.


----------



## fonkepala

So I'm thinking of getting something from Aliexpress, but due to the coronavirus outbreak in China now, am seriously thinking of holding off on the purchase. Anyone else holding off on their China purchases for now?


----------



## baskingshark

fonkepala said:


> So I'm thinking of getting something from Aliexpress, but due to the coronavirus outbreak in China now, am seriously thinking of holding off on the purchase. Anyone else holding off on their China purchases for now?



Ya i hope everyone recovers well and the virus doesn't become a pandemic. But from what I'm seen in the news, china is currently preventing certain transportation modes in/out of Wuhan where most of the coronavirus cases are for humans and animals. So the city is sort of under quarantine. No mention about preventing transport of inorganic stuff like audio gear, but i would think other cities in china are still able to procure and transport audio gear, though delays might be possible. Most of my previous audio purchases from Aliexpress seem to be sent out from Shenzhen/Beijing/Hong Kong, which aren't quarantined.

I am not an expert but i don't think the virus will survive and come all the way in the packaging over a few weeks when it reaches our mail box, but one can always wipe down the package with alcohol swabs when it comes? Or maybe hold off purchases for a few weeks until this dies down.

I think the fact that most sellers celebrate a week or two off work for chinese new year will likely be a bigger factor in delays for Aliexpress orders?


----------



## fonkepala (Jan 25, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Ya i hope everyone recovers well and the virus doesn't become a pandemic. But from what I'm seen in the news, china is currently preventing certain transportation modes in/out of Wuhan where most of the coronavirus cases are for humans and animals. So the city is sort of under quarantine. No mention about preventing transport of inorganic stuff like audio gear, but i would think other cities in china are still able to procure and transport audio gear, though delays might be possible. Most of my previous audio purchases from Aliexpress seem to be sent out from Shenzhen/Beijing/Hong Kong, which aren't quarantined.
> 
> I am not an expert but i don't think the virus will survive and come all the way in the packaging over a few weeks when it reaches our mail box, but one can always wipe down the package with alcohol swabs when it comes? Or maybe hold off purchases for a few weeks until this dies down.
> 
> I think the fact that most sellers celebrate a week or two off work for chinese new year will likely be a bigger factor in delays for Aliexpress orders?



Good points. However, I did come across a news item somewhere (or maybe it was on the radio) saying something about how the authorities in China are starting to disinfect parcels coming in the postal system, particularly in/out of Wuhan.

Yes, initially I was holding off on purchasing stuff on Ali due to the long Chinese New Year holidays, but now the virus is the main reason.

'Hold off purchases for a few weeks until this dies down' - I fear this will take more than just a few weeks to resolve.

Anyway, let's hope...and pray...for the best.

EDIT: just found this while googling, not sure of its verifiability: https://medicine.news.am/eng/news/24950/can-one-get-coronavirus-through-parcels-from-china.html


----------



## Infoseeker (Jan 25, 2020)

Just want tk say, 2020 the Simphonio Dragon 2 plus is still my favorite ToTL earbud.

Faaeal Datura Pro is worth its price. But no where near the Dragon Simphonio 2 plus soundstage and timbre.

2 plus is amazing for classical music and complicated hiphop music like Jay-Z and 2pac.


Also it has very little distortion on bass and the rest at high volumes.

The DQSM is all impactful midbass and has horrible distortion in comparison and it is not worth it's price.


----------



## headenvelopedinsound (Jan 25, 2020)

Infoseeker said:


> Just want tk say, 2020 the Simphonio Dragon 2 plus is still my favorite ToTL earbud.
> 
> Faaeal Datura Pro is worth its price. But no where near the Dragon Simphonio 2 plus soundstage and timbre.
> 
> ...


Glad you are enjoying those so much. I got both my Smabat St10 and M1 Pro in this week and both are excellent. M1 Pro is like listening to my 5” studio monitors. ST10 is like adding in a sub and has a sound of bigger speakers more like 6.5” studio speakers. And St10 has more detail overall. M1 Pro is more comfy. I see use for keeping them both. One for work and one for home.

How would you describe the Datura Pro? Was considering picking that up next sale that pops up on Ali.

As far as the viral outbreak . Open stuff by the trash can, wash your hands afterwards. Don’t rub your eyes or mouth. And you should be fine. It’s still pretty unknown just how resilient this one is but I can’t see it still living after a month or more in transit. But it has crossed my mind as I’ve already got things coming to me in transit from China. 

I have to say I am enjoying listening to buds more than any other option right now. I’m sitting here watching my son play with his hot wheels track listening to some good tunes and sipping some hot tea. That’s what I call a good Saturday afternoon.


----------



## groucho69

fonkepala said:


> So I'm thinking of getting something from Aliexpress, but due to the coronavirus outbreak in China now, am seriously thinking of holding off on the purchase. Anyone else holding off on their China purchases for now?



No


----------



## crabdog

My expectations were admittedly low but the KBEAR Knight turned out to be a winner IMO. My review is up for anyone interested.


----------



## csglinux

crabdog said:


> My expectations were admittedly low but the KBEAR Knight turned out to be a winner IMO. My review is up for anyone interested.


Beautifully-written review  Amazing that companies can even make a profit by selling such premium-looking headphones at such a low price.


----------



## j4100

crabdog said:


> My expectations were admittedly low but the KBEAR Knight turned out to be a winner IMO. My review is up for anyone interested.



I like them, but with foams on, the right one just pops out of my ear!


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 27, 2020)

I have been enjoying  the MMCX earpods that I bought from the Chitty store on AE.  Sometimes I find pods refreshing because I don't need foams for them to seat securely and of course no tips are being shoved into the ear and there is no dealing with the weight and clamp of headphones.     Very carefree listening.

There was not much info on the site but there is information on the box that maybe someone here can read.  They come without a cable... just the ear heads. 

I  currently have a black cable on them but I am posting this one with the white cable that I first used (while waiting for the other one to arrive) because it is easier to see the pods. These were so difficult to photograph for me.  I am not sure which cable I will stick with.  Does anyone recognize this cable..someone gave it to me so I have no idea what it actually is.







 
...and if anyone can read Chinese, here are the photos of the box



Spoiler: info on the box


----------



## Infoseeker (Jan 27, 2020)

mbwilson111 said:


> I have been enjoying  the MMCX earpods that I bought from the Chitty store on AE.  Sometimes I find pods refreshing because I don't need foams for them to seat securely and of course no tips are being shoved into the ear and there is no dealing with the weight and clamp of headphones.     Very carefree listening.
> 
> There was not much info on the site but there is information on the box that maybe someone here can read.  They come without a cable... just the ear heads.
> 
> ...



I wonder why more companies don't use the earpods form factor. Looks comfortable and convenient.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jan 27, 2020)

mbwilson111 said:


> I have been enjoying  the MMCX earpods that I bought from the Chitty store on AE.  Sometimes I find pods refreshing because I don't need foams for them to seat securely and of course no tips are being shoved into the ear and there is no dealing with the weight and clamp of headphones.     Very carefree listening.
> 
> There was not much info on the site but there is information on the box that maybe someone here can read.  They come without a cable... just the ear heads.
> 
> ...



Cable looks like the one that comes with the PT15. 

What do you think of the sound from them?


Middle area according to google translate:
The correct use of the headset: 1. When connecting the headset to the device, pay attention to insert it in place, so as to avoid poor contact and make the sound intermittent or silent.  2. When using headphones, the volume should be gradually increased from small to large. Do not make the volume suddenly high, so as not to damage the headphones.  3. Do not increase the volume to resist the surrounding noise such as bus, subway, and noise street, so as to avoid danger.

Specs from bottom left:
 Impedance: 32 ohm
 Frequency Response 18-21 (kHz)
 Sensitivity: 103 (dB / W)
 Speaker diameter: 14.2MM


Basically nothing much said. Just usage warnings.


----------



## LordZero

Someone can recommend something similiar to Masya, but a little more dark? (maybe yuin pk2 shape)

I like the Masya, the sound like headphones, but wish it was a little bit more full and and not spark in the treble. I already tried lots of foams(settled on thin full foam and donut Hiegis). Would the Pro version improve this?

Was looking at the BK Cygnus.


----------



## RobinFood (Jan 30, 2020)

LordZero said:


> Someone can recommend something similiar to Masya, but a little more dark? (maybe yuin pk2 shape)
> 
> I like the Masya, the sound like headphones, but wish it was a little bit more full and and not spark in the treble. I already tried lots of foams(settled on thin full foam and donut Hiegis). Would the Pro version improve this?
> 
> Was looking at the BK Cygnus.



Listening to my PureSon Audio Agares 150 balanced off of my es100 right now and they might be what you are looking for.

PK shells with a half and half cable copper-silver plated.

They have great resolution and imaging with a realistic soundstage that is wide and tall. Similar to the Smabat st-10, but the difference is that they are really warm. Bass is at the front. The mids sound amazing but are recessed on the es100 on balanced 1X. They come to the front and get even better at 2X but the es100 battery doesn't last long. The highs are a little shy, which is amazing considering how great the resolution and imaging is, but some cymbals sometimes seem to be missing some sizzle to my ears. I really like the sparkling highs though, so take that with a grain of salt. You can listen to them forever with zero fatigue and still have your breathe taken away from really good stereo.

I haven't heard the Masya specifically, but they are warm buds done extremely well, if you can drive them.


----------



## poppopio

*

Hello everybody I come from Thailand.*


My Name is *Thanat*


I have jewelry factory and Goldsmiths shop .


and I am admin
IN THIS GROUP

*TEF Thai Earphones Fanclub*

https://www.facebook.com/groups/266119590921199/

FACEBOOK GROUP


and I like headphones very much

I can make diy *earbuds* from *Brass,Silver plated gold . in pk and mx basic shell*


I want to show my work to everyone in Head-fi to comment my work.


If you want to talk with me you can direct message to me.






    




Thank you very much


----------



## Alex.Grimm

poppopio said:


> *Hello everybody I come from Thailand. *My Name is *Thanat *and I am admin IN THIS GROUP
> *TEF Thai Earphones Fanclub *https://www.facebook.com/groups/266119590921199/ FACEBOOK GROUP



Hi. I had some earbuds from Thailand *V-Friend Superbass*. And I was disappointed with their sound. I didn’t want to order from Thailand anymore.  Shipping cost 5-7$.
Could you write names a couple of *popular budget earbuds with good sound* from Thailand that are available for sending abroad? Where can we buy them, free delivery or paid (what is the price of delivery)?


----------



## poppopio

Alex.Grimm said:


> Hi. I had some earbuds from Thailand *V-Friend Superbass*. And I was disappointed with their sound. I didn’t want to order from Thailand anymore.  Shipping cost 5-7$.
> Could you write names a couple of *popular budget earbuds with good sound* from Thailand that are available for sending abroad? Where can we buy them, free delivery or paid (what is the price of delivery)?




I can send to you for free in this price range 
I introduce 

Brand Hannjik "karawek"
         Uncle audio "v. 1"

For free
Shipping only 5 usd

For anybody want to try
This two brand starter range from Thailand
I will send for free only 3 pairs

Pls send pm to me


----------



## poppopio (Jan 30, 2020)

I want to introduce


Thai brand earbuds
 with unique sound
And very unique design

For everyone

BRAND
Sen lek nam muek diy

From Thai artist


----------



## subwoof3r (Jan 31, 2020)

Hey everybody,
My *ISN Audio Rambo* review is up !
Hope you'll enjoy 
Cheers'


----------



## Mhog55

My Willsound mk2 mmcx arrived today. Pretty quick shipping from Rholupat. Listened to them for roughly an hour or so - no burn in. These aren't bad for 37 bucks.
Warm and relatively smooth, and they actually have some sense of sub bass. Mid bass is a bit fat and bloated. Surprisingly, there seems to be more focus on decay than attack. Mids throughout are noticeably congested. Not terrible, but a bit more so than the **** Bk2. I found the upper mids a little bit too pushed back, but some EQ helped with that. Top end is definitely rolled off. The upper mids and treble don't seem to be the focus here, unlike most every other earbud I've heard. Perhaps they will come a little more alive in this area after thorough burn in. They sound full with no hollow character. Another nice change from my other buds. After listening EQ free for a while, I had this feeling I should switch to my 99 Classics EQ settings, as these remind me of a mini version. Worked like a charm. Now if I could find a similar sounding bud with better clarity, resolution, extension, and sparkle, I think that would nail it for me. I haven't purchased a whole lot of earbuds thus far, but my keepers are the mk2, bk2, and M1. I'm still waiting on my TK TO180.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Mhog55 said:


> Now if I could find a similar sounding bud with better clarity, resolution, extension, and sparkle, I think that would nail it for me. I haven't purchased a whole lot of earbuds thus far, but my keepers are the mk2, bk2, and M1.



Do you try KubePlus or Willsound MK32 2020 Edition? Still with good subbass and clear sound Smabat ST-10, but it's not as warm as Willsound's earbuds


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

Agreed. Now that I’ve found the right combo of foams for the St-10 it’s my favorite earbud. Very clear and clean with a nice thump in the sub bass. I’ve also got the M1 Pro and would say that it’s similar but slightly warmer, it’s got more lift around 125-250hz and not as much subbass thump. They both aren’t going anywhere.


----------



## Mhog55

Alex.Grimm said:


> Do you try KubePlus or Willsound MK32 2020 Edition? Still with good subbass and clear sound Smabat ST-10, but it's not as warm as Willsound's earbuds


I have not tried the Kube. I likely wouldn't care for the ST-10 If it's less warm than the M1 Pro. The M1 is about as flat and neutral I can handle. I do wish it had the bass from the ST-10 though.


----------



## assassin10000

Mhog55 said:


> I have not tried the Kube. I likely wouldn't care for the ST-10 If it's less warm than the M1 Pro. The M1 is about as flat and neutral I can handle. I do wish it had the bass from the ST-10 though.



I wonder what you'd think of the K's LBB. It's pretty warm sounding.


----------



## 40760

Contemplating getting the ATH-CM200Ti since the price has been lowered and made available at my local store.

Seems to be having some mixed or polarizing reviews on them. Any comments on them?


----------



## Mhog55

assassin10000 said:


> I wonder what you'd think of the K's LBB. It's pretty warm sounding.


Only one way to find out. I see them on Aliexpress. Have you heard the Willsound mk2?


----------



## assassin10000 (Jan 31, 2020)

Mhog55 said:


> Only one way to find out. I see them on Aliexpress. Have you heard the Willsound mk2?



Nope. They're a MX500 shell, which doesn't fit my ears comfortably for long periods so I've skipped them.

I considered a PK16 or PK32... but I prefer an MMCX option that will work with my BT20S.


It's why I converted my LBB to MMCX. Which was a pain.


----------



## golov17

palestofwhite said:


> Seems to be having some mixed or polarizing reviews on them. Any comments on them?


totally dependent on fit in your ears and sensitivity to highs.  Also, if you are a bass lover, you are not to them.  Detail, airiness is their strength


----------



## 40760

golov17 said:


> totally dependent on fit in your ears and sensitivity to highs.  Also, if you are a bass lover, you are not to them.  Detail, airiness is their strength



I can still accept if they are something like the Moondrop Liebesleid...


----------



## golov17

palestofwhite said:


> I can still accept if they are something like the Moondrop Liebesleid...


Which country do you live?  Unfortunately, I cannot send you a private message because of your privacy settings.  To me in PM.


----------



## 40760

golov17 said:


> Which country do you live?  Unfortunately, I cannot send you a private message because of your privacy settings.  To me in PM.



Thanks for pointing that out! I've updated my settings so you can PM me. Anyway the ATH-CM200Ti is for pre-order only and the discount is already over, making them less attractive for me to consider.

What would you recommend for a TOTL earbuds with good bass instead? At this rate, I also don't know if ordering from China would be an option due to the current situation...


----------



## golov17

palestofwhite said:


> Thanks for pointing that out! I've updated my settings so you can PM me. Anyway the ATH-CM200Ti is for pre-order only and the discount is already over, making them less attractive for me to consider.
> 
> What would you recommend for a TOTL earbuds with good bass instead? At this rate, I also don't know if ordering from China would be an option due to the current situation...


Cypherus Audio from Indonesia.  They will not disappoint you.  ZoomFred Pro is great with bass and everything else if you can live with a cryo-copper rigid cable


----------



## 40760

golov17 said:


> Cypherus Audio from Indonesia.  They will not disappoint you.  ZoomFred Pro is great with bass and everything else if you can live with a cryo-copper rigid cable



Thanks! I'll check them out. I for one can live with thick cables if they do not oxidize. Have you any experience with VE's new Sun Dice?


----------



## golov17

palestofwhite said:


> Thanks! I'll check them out. I for one can live with thick cables if they do not oxidize. Have you any experience with VE's new Sun Dice?


 unfortunately no


----------



## brianforever (Feb 1, 2020)

fonkepala said:


> How come they go on sale in the Philippines earlier than Aliexpress? Were they made by a PH modder?



Bang bang Audio PH bought them in bulk from Taobao and resell them in the Philippines
@fonkepala you can also buy from Taobao in Malaysia via a sub agent too

Or write directly to the Company :
*Shenzhen Vido Digital Electronics Co.,Ltd*
http://daisyguo2014.sell.everychina.com/aboutus.html


----------



## 40760 (Feb 1, 2020)

Cancelled...


----------



## fonkepala

brianforever said:


> Bang bang Audio PH bought them in bulk from Taobao and resell them in the Philippines
> @fonkepala you can also buy from Taobao in Malaysia via a sub agent too
> 
> Or write directly to the Company :
> ...



Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## LordZero

Is the Astrotec Lyra natural sold out or discontinued? Can't find them on ali.


----------



## jogawag (Feb 2, 2020)

LordZero said:


> Is the Astrotec Lyra natural sold out or discontinued? Can't find them on ali.



Do you mean "Astrotec Lyra Nature"? If so, you can find it now on aliexpress.


----------



## ClieOS

My advice for those of you who want to picks up a pair of Astrotec is that you need to do your home work first to see if it is the kind of sound signature you are looking for. If you are more or less going in blind, then make sure you are getting a big discount. After 3 pairs of Astrotec, I find them to be fairly underwhelming for the asking price. Build quality is very good though.


----------



## brianforever

fonkepala said:


> Thanks for the heads up!



welcome  let me know if there's a MO going on so I can add my orders


----------



## beyermann

the red sticker for the right earbud on my EB2 is falling appart already.. other than that, it seems to be working.


----------



## 40760 (Feb 4, 2020)

golov17 said:


> unfortunately no



Shipping from China is delayed at the moment. I'm reconsidering the ATH-CM2000Ti, as they are back on a discount again. Should be heading down one of these days to try and get them...


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Marcos Fontana said:


> Anybody has a link or contact where I can buy a new Sabia?





Spoiler



https://www.facebook.com/EliAudioIndonesia/
https://www.facebook.com/rholupat09/
Or ask someone from Indonesia to buy from them on the web market and send you


----------



## waynes world

Been listening a fair amount recently to the Willsound MK2 rev2's. Yup, very satisfying


----------



## fonkepala

I like the **** BK2 stock cable a fair bit. Does anyone know if the cable can be purchased separately by itself? Preferably on Ali.


----------



## waynes world

Side note: I would highly recommend letting your ears get clogged up with ear wax. Once they are cleaned out, you hear details in the music that you forgot you ever heard before! Just like getting an excellent new DAC that makes all your gear sound better. Magic!


----------



## LordZero (Feb 4, 2020)

RobinFood said:


> Listening to my PureSon Audio Agares 150 balanced off of my es100 right now and they might be what you are looking for.
> 
> PK shells with a half and half cable copper-silver plated.
> 
> ...



Thank you very much for your detailed description 
I am interested in trying them, probably will order... but I like treble too( just not ear piercing).
I finally could get a nice fit of the Rose Masya and I am thinking in replacing my Iem(ibasso it01s) for them... I can't get a good fit with any tips I tried  but earbuds you have so much you can try.



jogawag said:


> Do you mean "Astrotec Lyra Nature"? If so, you can find it now on aliexpress.



yes! sorry XD



ClieOS said:


> My advice for those of you who want to picks up a pair of Astrotec is that you need to do your home work first to see if it is the kind of sound signature you are looking for. If you are more or less going in blind, then make sure you are getting a big discount. After 3 pairs of Astrotec, I find them to be fairly underwhelming for the asking price. Build quality is very good though.



Oh  it's a no go then... but bought a 2nd hand rose masya pro/mk2, can't wait...

Wish I could find some reviews comparing the Penon BS1 or Cygnus with the Rose Masya Pro.


----------



## Mhog55

Have to admit, these Willsound mk2 are growing on me. Still not fully burned in, but they are showing signs of improvement. For 37 bucks, I think these are great. I'd definitely recommend them to anyone looking for a warm bud with really good presence in the low end, and a non fatiguing top end - very musical imo.


----------



## fonkepala

waynes world said:


> Side note: I would highly recommend letting your ears get clogged up with ear wax. Once they are cleaned out, you hear details in the music that you forgot you ever heard before! Just like getting an excellent new DAC that makes all your gear sound better. Magic!



Hahaha  We can probably call it the 'Wax DAC'


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Mhog55 said:


> Have to admit, these Willsound mk2 are growing on me. Still not fully burned in, but they are showing signs of improvement. For 37 bucks, I think these are great. I'd definitely recommend them to anyone looking for a warm bud with really good presence in the low end, and a non fatiguing top end - very musical imo.



I also took the MK2 MMCX version and use with cable UP-OCC making the sound even better


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Perhaps for someone it will be useful information.

ELI Audio Sabia (2019 List)


Spoiler



Elibuds Sabia V1
[Baseline Elibuds]

Elibuds Sabia V1
[Actually only Box Change, But people "reporting" sound kinda change too, I guess this is placebo effect. It's exact same earbuds, but since we are running out of box and we have to made a new one at that time]

Elibuds Sabia V2
[V2 is change in the magnet, resulting deeper and bigger bass]

Elibuds Sabia V2 with mic
[It's V2 with Mic Cable]

Elibuds Sabia V3
[V3 is when we change the Jack to L Plug due to our Jack Molder is broken and resulting many faulty Jacks on V2]

Sabia Pro V1 (Based on V3 Driver) [Also Known as Pro Vocal Tuned Limited edition]
[It's based on V3 Driver where we modify a bit the membrain and adding a dampening, resulting smooth treble and deep bass]

Elibuds Sabia V4
[It's Actually same driver with V3, but I think the batch for the driver is different, resulting slight change on the midrange]

Sabia Pro V2 (Based on V4 Driver) [Also known as Anniversary Edition Pro]
[Same modification as Pro on V3, Membrain and Dampening, Resulting forwarder Midrange]

Elibuds Sabia V4 with mic
[It's just V4 with Mic cable, but this time better mic and better cable than the ones use in V2]

Elibuds Sabia V5
[It's a whole new driver, new batches of Membrain, Coil and Magnet and also new housing material, better printing on the housing]

Elibuds Sabia Pro V3 (Based on V5 Driver) [Also known as Sabia Pro 2Gen]
[Same modification as Pro on V3 & V4, Membrain and Dampening, Resulting forwarder Midrange]

Elibuds Sabia V6
[V6 is the experimental driver, we try the new sets of driver. we looking for more better vocal and clarity]

Elibuds Sabia V7
[V7 It's our Best sounding yet! this is the result of our experiments on the V6 and make it better, we even manage to sold this by 2 batches, First Batches Mid 2019 and Second Batches Late 2019]

Maysound TJI-A
[It's a small batches of 50, experimental driver and cable. I was kinda running out of money back then, so I use some unused test driver lying around and make it a product hahaha]

Elibuds Asti v1
[It's an experimental product using YUIN styled housing, I can say this one is fail product, the sound is very bad while production cost it's pretty high, only sold like 10-15 before we plug out the switch]

Elibuds Saida
[It's Prototype of our "High End" earbuds, that cost around $60, and actually most unit were sold internationally, where most buyers are from Thailand, we stop producing it due to high production cost]

Elibuds Eli X Yuzu [Based on V5]
[This is V5 but packed with Merchandise and Photo-pack of Local Famous Photo-model named Salma who is known as Yuzu]

Re:Zero (Doujin)
[This is was V4 (or V5) with Pink and Blue housing]

Sheli SOU (Sound Of U) *
[This was custom made Earbuds, so Buyers can choose their driver, cable and colors of their housing, It's kinda unique, but again we stop the production due to, yeah you guess it "high production cost"]

Elibuds Asti (Crow Audio x ELI Audio) [Discontinue]
[This is same as Asti V1, the actual Asti was made by Local Audio Manufacturer called Crow Audio]

---
Actually we currently preparing for "Mid Range" (by Midrange I mean Mid End) and "High End" Earbuds in Future.


----------



## j4100

waynes world said:


> Been listening a fair amount recently to the Willsound MK2 rev2's. Yup, very satisfying



Haven't listened to mine in ages. Current workhorses are my K64 for use with my phone streaming from bandcamp at lunchtime, my Pandas for sleepy time tunes via my X5ii.


----------



## 40760

Tomorrow is the day... Heading to Audio Technica store to try the ATH-CM2000Ti...


----------



## LordZero

Alex.Grimm said:


> I also took the MK2 MMCX version and use with cable UP-OCC making the sound even better




Can you link me to the specific cable?


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Feb 5, 2020)

LordZero said:


> Can you link me to the specific cable?



Yes, I have a favorite wire/cables store CEMA Electro acousti


Spoiler



I have this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000007820233.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.264d33edJtHlgQ

You can personally make a finished cable or pay about 10$ they will make you finished cable from what you choose in their store (PS. I do not advise taking the cheapest blue MMCX connector, take a little more expensive black or silver)
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/all-wholesale-products/5003206.html

They also have finished cables.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000413868760.html?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.37.5bc64a53Ah2VtY

They also have pure silver 99% cables, cheaper than other stores. I never tried, still a very big price...


----------



## mochill

Just got simphonio dragon sw2+ yesterday and they are awesome and smooth


----------



## waynes world

Alex.Grimm said:


> Perhaps for someone it will be useful information.
> 
> ELI Audio Sabia (2019 List)
> 
> ...



That was useful - thanks!


----------



## rkw

palestofwhite said:


> Tomorrow is the day... Heading to Audio Technica store to try the ATH-CM2000Ti...


I remember someone who tried them said that the store display didn't have foams. Bring your own foams for proper evaluation.


----------



## 40760 (Feb 6, 2020)

rkw said:


> I remember someone who tried them said that the store display didn't have foams. Bring your own foams for proper evaluation.



I didn't bring any along with me... but I guess I'll ask them if they have some later...

Edit: Surprised that I got back with a pair, as these are oddly satisfying to listen to. A very unusual tuning that seem lacking on the low end at first, but is immediately airy and precise. With an upgraded cable, it sounds even fuller, but that will be for another time. They scale with power, and even though rated at 16ohm requires higher volume than my other 32ohm earbuds.

Built quality and accessories are rather excellent and the A2DC connectors are definitely more sturdy than MMCX. Each earpiece is nicely finished and feels solid and nowhere as heavy like the Moondrop Liebesleid when in the ears. I think it will be great to see a wider adoption of titanium for earbud shells.

As of now, these will need to burn in for quite some time for them to open up.


----------



## ShabtabQ

There's some lose wire problem on the jack end of my NiceHCK EB2, I'll have to change the wire or at least the jack, is it possible for wire replacement?


----------



## assassin10000

ShabtabQ said:


> There's some lose wire problem on the jack end of my NiceHCK EB2, I'll have to change the wire or at least the jack, is it possible for wire replacement?



You can possibly repair it if the cable end can be unscrewed. Or you can buy a new end, cut the old one off and put it on.

You can make or buy new a cable with ends on it and fix it that way too.


----------



## ShabtabQ

assassin10000 said:


> You can possibly repair it if the cable end can be unscrewed. Or you can buy a new end, cut the old one off and put it on.
> 
> You can make or buy new a cable with ends on it and fix it that way too.



The problem is that the wire is fixed sort of and I can't seem to take the wire off from the earbud side either and plus the wire is too thin any 3rd part cable won't even fit.


----------



## ClieOS

ShabtabQ said:


> There's some lose wire problem on the jack end of my NiceHCK EB2, I'll have to change the wire or at least the jack, is it possible for wire replacement?



To do it the right way, you need a soldering iron (with some soldering paste / flux) and a new 3.5mm plug for plug replacement. If you want to replace the cable all together, you will also need an hot air gun (*to heat the housing up till the glue inside the housing starts to loosen. Hair dryer, while not ideal, can be used as well) and new cable. Of course, you will also need to learn how to solder.


----------



## fonkepala

Is anyone experiencing more-than-usual delays in receiving their audio stuff from AliExpress currently? Thinking of placing an order but wondering if I should...


----------



## 40760

I


fonkepala said:


> Is anyone experiencing more-than-usual delays in receiving their audio stuff from AliExpress currently? Thinking of placing an order but wondering if I should...



Inevitable delays due to the Coronavirus situation. I've checked with a few sellers and have decided to put all AE or TB purchases on hold.


----------



## fonkepala

palestofwhite said:


> Inevitable delays due to the Coronavirus situation. I've checked with a few sellers and have decided to put all AE or TB purchases on hold.



Yup, as I expected. Will have to do the same, I guess. Thanks.


----------



## ShabtabQ

ClieOS said:


> To do it the right way, you need a soldering iron (with some soldering paste / flux) and a new 3.5mm plug for plug replacement. If you want to replace the cable all together, you will also need an hot air gun (*to heat the housing up till the glue inside the housing starts to loosen. Hair dryer, while not ideal, can be used as well) and new cable. Of course, you will also need to learn how to solder.



I have done soldering before so that is fine, please recommend me a cable that will fit the EB2 housing.


----------



## 40760

ShabtabQ said:


> I have done soldering before so that is fine, please recommend me a cable that will fit the EB2 housing.



Your best bet will be AliExpress... but that's not so ideal as of now...


----------



## ClieOS

ShabtabQ said:


> I have done soldering before so that is fine, please recommend me a cable that will fit the EB2 housing.



With China being the place where most cables are made and the country currently in lockdown, I am not sure I'll be able to recommend you a suitable cable that you can actually get. The easier solution is probably to recycle any old earphone you have or get a very cheap earphone from local shop and use it's cable instead.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 8, 2020)

ShabtabQ said:


> I have done soldering before so that is fine, please recommend me a cable that will fit the EB2 housing.


The cables from RY store can be an option.
KB EAR 4 core copper cable  - just cut off connectors and remove ear hooks.
From DIY Earphone Tribe Store: opt#1(softer cable) and opt#2(stiffer cable)
Copper cable with black or red stripes.


----------



## jogawag (Feb 9, 2020)

Hi @ClieOS, could you answer my questions?
I am now enjoying music with docomo earbuds (2017 NiceHCK DIY PK2 black version 1) and Smabat ST-10.
I feel these two earbuds are on the same tier (the docomo earbuds have fun and the Smabat ST-10 has excellent bass).
How does @ClieOS compare and rank these two earbuds in the whole tiers?

By the way, it seems that white docomo earbuds can be purchased on the following page.
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=4771866


----------



## 40760 (Feb 9, 2020)

3 more pairs of Willsound modded Kubes coming back my way... 

Can anyone confirm if the Sabia V7 sold by Rholupat comes with a mic?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

palestofwhite said:


> Can anyone confirm if the Sabia V7 sold by Rholupat comes with a mic?


Yes


----------



## 40760 (Feb 12, 2020)

Alex.Grimm said:


> Yes



Thanks! I think I'll get a pair for mobile use...

EDIT: Current batch of Sabia V7 from Rholupat are without mic... Guess I'll have to look elsewhere...


----------



## caracal (Feb 9, 2020)

Have anybody tried these archaic earbuds? It's a SYN1301B motorola headset.
Could they be opened and recabled without breaking the shell or drivers?


----------



## ClieOS

jogawag said:


> Hi @ClieOS, could you answer my questions?
> I am now enjoying music with docomo earbuds (2017 NiceHCK DIY PK2 black version 1) and Smabat ST-10.
> I feel these two earbuds are on the same tier (the docomo earbuds have fun and the Smabat ST-10 has excellent bass).
> How does @ClieOS compare and rank these two earbuds in the whole tiers?
> ...



I'll rank them fairly close as well.


----------



## jogawag (Feb 10, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> I'll rank them fairly close as well.


Are they( docomo earbuds and Smabat ST-10 ) the same CONTENDER tier as Shozy Cygnus? Or are they the same CHAMPIONS tier as Shozy BK?


----------



## LordZero

jogawag said:


> By the way, it seems that white docomo earbuds can be purchased on the following page.
> https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=4771866


Is the SQ and seller legit?


----------



## ClieOS

jogawag said:


> Are they( docomo earbuds and Smabat ST-10 ) the same CONTENDER tier as Shozy Cygnus? Or are they the same CHAMPIONS tier as Shozy BK?



I'll say they are right at the top of contender or even lower end of champion. BK on balanced can be stunningly good - but if it is single-ended, it is not that much better than the two.


----------



## jogawag (Feb 10, 2020)

LordZero said:


> Is the SQ and seller legit?



I bought there about a year ago but there was no problem other than a short 60 cm cable.
One problem is that the docomo earbuds have a 4-pole Hifiman-Balanced plug.
In my experience it seems that you can convert it to a 3-pole plug with a 70 cm long ordinary extension cable made of JVC, but I cannot guarantee it.

However, it seems that the white docomo earbuds with the conversion extension cable are sold on the next "Chinese" Taobao page...
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=525653308087


----------



## LordZero

jogawag said:


> I bought there about a year ago but there was no problem other than a short 60 cm cable.
> One problem is that the docomo earbuds have a 4-pole Hifiman-Balanced plug.
> In my experience it seems that you can convert it to a 3-pole plug with a 70 cm long ordinary extension cable made of JVC, but I cannot guarantee it.
> 
> ...




Thanks!
 I see... have to search for that extension. But I can use them in a unbalanced source, right?


----------



## jogawag (Feb 10, 2020)

LordZero said:


> Thanks!
> I see... have to search for that extension. But I can use them in a unbalanced source, right?



The model number of the 70 cm long ordinary extension cable made of JVC is "JVC CN-M70-W".
This cable seems to happen to convert from 4-poles to 3-poles, but it is not explicitly stated that there is a conversion function.
If converted to a 3-pole plug, you can use them in a unbalanced source.


----------



## Ynot1 (Feb 16, 2020)

Search is not working right.

https://www.harmanaudio.com/enhancers/

There is no info.



★★★★★   ★★★★★  5 out of 5 stars.


     · 3 years ago

*    they work...   *

I bought a pair of inspire 100 yurbuds a while ago, love 'em, and just recently I discovered that if I took the silicon piece off, the buds looked the same as some older types of ear buds that I had laying around.  so I decided to try to "upgrade" the older sets, I ordered two pair, got them very quickly, and they worked!  These things are very cleverly, but simply, designed.  they really stay put, I use them on the treadmill, never tried running with them, and they are comfortable and functional.  If there is one issue, I could say that ten bucks for two pair of little silicon molded gizmos is very expensive, but shipping is free, and ten bucks spent now won't keep me from buying that brand new Caddy, anyhow, so what the heck.  saved a shopping trip...wish I knew about these when I used to ride motorcycles...

https://www.harmanaudio.com/sale/JBL+Inspire+100.html?cgid=sale&dwvar_JBL Inspire 100_color=Black-GLOBAL-Current#features_tab

Was on sale and now sold out.

Fit wise I think I can see people with sensitive ears finding discomfort rather quickly. But for people who wrestle for living,ie mma, or participate in contact sports, ie touch football, I think they can get past the comfort level.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/yurbuds-inspire-first-impressions.744211/post-11084838

I kind of disagree with the review in the link because I like sound-stage and warm presentation. Maybe also because the sale price was about $5. But I'm not someone who have no experience with spectacular sound under $5. Lets just say I have experience with the monk.

I put the tip or cover of the JBL on the Ry4s and the sensitivity jump made a huge jump in sound. Basically this tip curbs the highs and boost the mid bass. The sound is like making the ear bud sounds like being inside of a large club.
The efficiency of earbuds is just amazing with this tip. The JBL has the JBL/AKG mid centric sound. But in comparison to the Ry4s, the JBL is not very efficient sounding.

I tried Vido, and Vido sounds the best with this tip. The darker sound of Vido translate better with the increase in mid bass, club sound, and roll off of highs. The sound is much louder and fit is much more secure. I think this tip makes Vido a legitimate work out buds.


----------



## classfolkphile

I've emailed Rholupat twice in the past week enquiring about shipping options beyond "Economy Standard" (which is the only thing that shows up in their order form and takes about a month to the US) and have not received a reply. Any other options for Kube and Willsound earbuds?


----------



## fonkepala

classfolkphile said:


> I've emailed Rholupat twice in the past week enquiring about shipping options beyond "Economy Standard" (which is the only thing that shows up in their order form and takes about a month to the US) and have not received a reply. Any other options for Kube and Willsound earbuds?



AFAIK Willsound buds are also available here: https://shopee.co.id/will_sound

That seller seems to be the maker himself. Not sure if it's open to purchasers beyond Indonesia, however. That site is like Amazon but localized to Indonesia. Do note that quite a number of the models aren't available there for some reason. The Mk2 is most prominently missing from that site. Perhaps you can contact him there & ask.


----------



## classfolkphile

Thank you.


----------



## 40760

Anyone knows if the 1More EO320 is any good?


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Hello, Any recommendation on Earbud under / around $10 / $15 USD that has* a MIC* and Available on Amazon US?


----------



## jogawag

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> Hello, Any recommendation on Earbud under / around $10 / $15 USD that has* a MIC* and Available on Amazon US?


I recommend you Edifier P185.


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> Anyone knows if the 1More EO320 is any good?



Yes it is, although I wish it did not have a mic


----------



## 40760 (Feb 13, 2020)

mbwilson111 said:


> Yes it is, although I wish it did not have a mic



Usually I would have also preferred my earbuds without a mic, but this time I'm specifically looking at something to take calls and communicate when playing some casual games. Do you think it will be a good choice to go with the EO320?

BTW I have already gifted my E1008 to a good friend, and it will be great to know if you can compare their sound? Built wise I feel that they are quite similar, apart from their price and packaged accessories.


----------



## tendou

Mhog55 said:


> My Willsound mk2 mmcx arrived today. Pretty quick shipping from Rholupat. Listened to them for roughly an hour or so - no burn in. These aren't bad for 37 bucks.
> Warm and relatively smooth, and they actually have some sense of sub bass. Mid bass is a bit fat and bloated. Surprisingly, there seems to be more focus on decay than attack. Mids throughout are noticeably congested. Not terrible, but a bit more so than the **** Bk2. I found the upper mids a little bit too pushed back, but some EQ helped with that. Top end is definitely rolled off. The upper mids and treble don't seem to be the focus here, unlike most every other earbud I've heard. Perhaps they will come a little more alive in this area after thorough burn in. They sound full with no hollow character. Another nice change from my other buds. After listening EQ free for a while, I had this feeling I should switch to my 99 Classics EQ settings, as these remind me of a mini version. Worked like a charm. Now if I could find a similar sounding bud with better clarity, resolution, extension, and sparkle, I think that would nail it for me. I haven't purchased a whole lot of earbuds thus far, but my keepers are the mk2, bk2, and M1. I'm still waiting on my TK TO180.



So the bk2 are better to your ears than mk2?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

"It's been a while that we haven't seen Shozy releasing earbuds since the great white and black , and now on the valentine's day we've got news that they will be releasing their latest earbuds very soon. Interesting to see they didn't use the Pk1 shell this time and rather switching to the Dp100 instead. More importantly this will mostly be LIMITED as what we've known so far . Price will be roughly around 888rmb, name TBC."


Spoiler


----------



## ClieOS

New Shozy, no English name yet except for a Chinese name called "little gold". MSRP around US$130.


----------



## captione

I just bought the Headroom MS16 and they sound really great for the cheap price (aside for the questionable bass performance). I can't believe these are just 199 php! (3.94 usd)


----------



## RobinFood

captione said:


> I just bought the Headroom MS16 and they sound really great for the cheap price (aside for the questionable bass performance). I can't believe these are just 199 php! (3.94 usd)



They are my main gaming buds, always connected to my laptop. Biggest soundstage I've ever heard, exaggerated, sure, but it helps a lot in fps games.


----------



## fonkepala

captione said:


> I just bought the Headroom MS16 and they sound really great for the cheap price (aside for the questionable bass performance). I can't believe these are just 199 php! (3.94 usd)



How's the bass & mids?


----------



## captione

RobinFood said:


> They are my main gaming buds, always connected to my laptop. Biggest soundstage I've ever heard, exaggerated, sure, but it helps a lot in fps games.


Yeah, they quite do the sound staging very well, probably due to it's open back nature. 
I usually use the MS16 at home because yeah... Open back and sound leaks. 


fonkepala said:


> How's the bass & mids?


Don't expect fully bodied bass, it lacks the sub bass performance. The mids are kinda warm and really vivid.


----------



## superuser1

Can you guys suggest a pair of earbuds with decent sub bass as well as no rolled off highs within $70 please? Detachable cables are highly preferred at that price point. Thank you!!


----------



## Infoseeker (Feb 15, 2020)

RobinFood said:


> They are my main gaming buds, always connected to my laptop. Biggest soundstage I've ever heard, exaggerated, sure, but it helps a lot in fps games.



For gaming I am using the Dragon Simphonio 2 plus. It has a nice frequency response between harman and U.

But it presents itself like an Hd800s. With an almost speaker like coloring. Really great for gaming; I use them with my Nintendo Switch.

Really great subbass extension. 

... But the price. XD


----------



## RobinFood

Infoseeker said:


> For gaming I am using the Dragon Simphonio 2 plus. It has a nice frequency response between harman and U.
> 
> But it presents itself like an Hd800s. With an almost speaker like coloring. Really great for gaming; I use them with my Nintendo Switch.
> 
> ... But the price. XD



The MS16 is a little but cheaper...


----------



## 40760

RobinFood said:


> The MS16 is a little but cheaper...



I've been holding back from getting a pair for the longest time... seems like I'll have to find somewhere to source for one as AE and TB are no go for me...


----------



## captione

palestofwhite said:


> I've been holding back from getting a pair for the longest time... seems like I'll have to find somewhere to source for one as AE and TB are no go for me...


I hope you get a good deal on somewhere else. They literally sell them here for dirt cheap.


----------



## fonkepala

captione said:


> Yeah, they quite do the sound staging very well, probably due to it's open back nature.
> I usually use the MS16 at home because yeah... Open back and sound leaks.
> 
> Don't expect fully bodied bass, it lacks the sub bass performance. The mids are kinda warm and really vivid.



How about the highs? I'm a bit treble sensitive.

Here it's selling for around US$7


----------



## captione

fonkepala said:


> How about the highs? I'm a bit treble sensitive.
> 
> Here it's selling for around US$7


Real subtle and tonally accurate, it's really transparent sounding when it comes to it. No piercing whatsoever, and no sibilance, as far as my pair goes. 
YMMV because Headroom isn't really reliable for their QC. It's cheap for me though so it doesn't hurt to try.


----------



## fonkepala

captione said:


> Real subtle and tonally accurate, it's really transparent sounding when it comes to it. No piercing whatsoever, and no sibilance, as far as my pair goes.
> YMMV because Headroom isn't really reliable for their QC. It's cheap for me though so it doesn't hurt to try.



Thanks for the input. Looks like I'll have to give it a shot.


----------



## 40760

captione said:


> I hope you get a good deal on somewhere else. They literally sell them here for dirt cheap.



No luck getting it locally. I'll have to put it on hold once again until I'm able to purchase from AE again.


----------



## Infoseeker

mochill said:


> Just got simphonio dragon sw2+ yesterday and they are awesome and smooth



How is it 10 days after the honeymoon phase?


----------



## mochill

Infoseeker said:


> How is it 10 days after the honeymoon phase?


Very good


----------



## beyermann

My EB2 is definitely broken. The left earbud goes on and off as i wiggle the cable. The red plastic is also coming off... a bit disappointed its been like 1 or 2 years of use. Sound is good tho.

Anyone a bit paranoide about buying from alibaba cuz of coronavirus? anyway to buy good earphones outside of china?

Anything good to pick on amazon?


----------



## Infoseeker (Feb 16, 2020)

beyermann said:


> My EB2 is definitely broken. The left earbud goes on and off as i wiggle the cable. The red plastic is also coming off... a bit disappointed its been like 1 or 2 years of use. Sound is good tho.
> 
> Anyone a bit paranoide about buying from alibaba cuz of coronavirus? anyway to buy good earphones outside of china?
> 
> Anything good to pick on amazon?



The virus is unstable. It will die from the uv/radiation alone on an airport transport. Plus the harsh extreme hots and cold conditions.

It requires a human to carry over in their very convenient flesh cases.


----------



## beyermann

Infoseeker said:


> The virus is unstable. It will die from the uv alone on an airport transport. Plus the harsh extreme hots and cold conditions.
> 
> It requires a human to carry over in their very convenient flesh cases.



do they run UV on airports? does the UV laser tresspass all the boxes?..

anyway, how do you rate the VE monk vs the usual suspects here? (pk3 yuin, EB2...) 

https://www.amazon.es/Venture-Elect...rds=Venture+Electronics&qid=1581895613&sr=8-1


----------



## Infoseeker

beyermann said:


> do they run UV on airports? does the UV laser tresspass all the boxes?..
> 
> anyway, how do you rate the VE monk vs the usual suspects here? (pk3 yuin, EB2...)
> 
> https://www.amazon.es/Venture-Elect...rds=Venture+Electronics&qid=1581895613&sr=8-1



No, just the extra radiation you get for being abive the clouds and closer to the atmosphere. 

Not a problem normally, but a virus with nothing but its genes exposed is another matter.


----------



## nxnje

Just reviewed the KBEAR Knight earbuds.
I think these are very good for the price.
I do not own many earbuds, but I feel these sound good. My EB2 from NiceHCK really struggle behind them.

Review up here.
https://audio-monkeys.com/in-ear/kbear-knight-en/


----------



## beyermann

nxnje said:


> Just reviewed the KBEAR Knight earbuds.
> I think these are very good for the price.
> I do not own many earbuds, but I feel these sound good. My EB2 from NiceHCK really struggle behind them.
> 
> ...



any workds on the ve monks plus?


----------



## willywill

If it's free it's for me, I got this free from the 46 Audio booth at CanJam, there is no bass on them but they sound good with the right music genres


----------



## superuser1

superuser1 said:


> Can you guys suggest a pair of earbuds with decent sub bass as well as no rolled off highs within $70 please? Detachable cables are highly preferred at that price point. Thank you!!


Help and suggestions in this regard will be much appreciated. Thanks


----------



## assassin10000

superuser1 said:


> Help and suggestions in this regard will be much appreciated. Thanks



ST-10. It reaches around that price range during sales sometimes. Or occasionally found here used.


----------



## GREQ

beyermann said:


> Anyone a bit paranoide about buying from alibaba cuz of coronavirus? anyway to buy good earphones outside of china?


Flu-type viruses typically only survive on the surface of objects for around 3-5 days maximum.
There is no chance they will survive the usual 4-6 weeks shipping time.


----------



## silverfishla

GREQ said:


> Flu-type viruses typically only survive on the surface of objects for around 3-5 days maximum.
> There is no chance they will survive the usual 4-6 weeks shipping time.


I suppose it would depend on the last guys who touched it before it got to you.  Then your package in cool storage.  Might extend the life of a virus.  But all that is just heresay.


----------



## Infoseeker (Feb 17, 2020)

silverfishla said:


> I suppose it would depend on the last guys who touched it before it got to you.  Then your package in cool storage.  Might extend the life of a virus.  But all that is just heresay.



The flight radiation would still be there despite the cold.

Though I wonder of how significant that is.


----------



## BubisUK

I would really recomend Linklike Classic 2 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Linklike-H...htweight-Earphones-Bright-Black/dp/B07MZ6624S
Usualy they go for 19.99£, but I got them on flash sale for 15£. 
Despite the description about extra bass, you can really only feel booming bass, and I mean booming, when you jam them in your ears and keep them pushed in with your fingers. 
These earbuds are weird, that is the best description I could give them, but I like them, new slipknot album sounded nice throug them today  
When you use them normaly, they sound quite bright, the vocals are really nice and crisp and you can feel the bass present. So that is my 2 british rubls of opinion. Would definitely buy them again.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Yesterday I received HAANJIK Karawek and LungAudio V2 (aka Uncle Audio) from Thailand. I was surprised by the sound, I need to listen better, later I will write more about them.


----------



## nxnje

beyermann said:


> any workds on the ve monks plus?


I don't have the ve monk plus so I dunno.


----------



## DBaldock9

beyermann said:


> any workds on the ve monks plus?



I've got a few different VE Monk Plus earbuds, and the two that I like the best are the Monk Plus Espresso (2.5mm TRRS), which is now discontinued; and the Monk Plus SPC, which is still available for USD$20.00 [ https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=4 ].  I'm not a big fan of the way that the SPC cable tends to coil & tangle, but the earbuds do have a big, open sound - rather than an in-your-head sort of sound.


----------



## fusinato

Hey guys, could you help me with a earbud accident I had?

Yesterday I discovered that I let my B40s in the pocket, and washed it with my clothes... 

Now the buds are working-ish. It doesn't sound like it used to do.

Do you know anything that could be done in this case? Maybe some burn-in or something...


----------



## ClieOS

fusinato said:


> Hey guys, could you help me with a earbud accident I had?
> 
> Yesterday I discovered that I let my B40s in the pocket, and washed it with my clothes...
> 
> ...



You shouldn't have used it immediately after the wash, as it could lead to electrical shorting inside (which could have burnt the voice coil) if there is any moisture left inside. Instead, you should have placed it in a cold dry place (i.e. refrigerator, but not freezer) for a few days so it can be properly dried.


----------



## mbwilson111

fusinato said:


> Hey guys, could you help me with a earbud accident I had?
> 
> Yesterday I discovered that I let my B40s in the pocket, and washed it with my clothes...
> 
> ...


Put them in a sealed container of dry rice for a few days...or use packets of that silica gel that is sometimes in our parcels.


----------



## Gédéon Molle

NiceHCK B40 ordered, I haven't been interested in earbuds for a long time.


----------



## DBaldock9

fusinato said:


> Hey guys, could you help me with a earbud accident I had?
> 
> Yesterday I discovered that I let my B40s in the pocket, and washed it with my clothes...
> 
> ...





ClieOS said:


> You shouldn't have used it immediately after the wash, as it could lead to electrical shorting inside (which could have burnt the voice coil) if there is any moisture left inside. Instead, you should have placed it in a cold dry place (i.e. refrigerator, but not freezer) for a few days so it can be properly dried.



Placing electronics in a sealed plastic bag full of rice (which acts as a desiccant), is another way to dry things out.


----------



## waynes world

Gédéon Molle said:


> NiceHCK B40 ordered, I haven't been interested in earbuds for a long time.



I'm very happy that I have mine


----------



## fusinato

Thanks for all the tips! 

A bit more information: When I found out, the clothes were dry, so as the outside of the buds. Then I just left in my desk for about 24 hours, and plugged in about two hours ago (when I posted my comment). It seemed to improve since!

Will put in a bag of rice for a few hours as you guys said.


----------



## beyermann (Feb 18, 2020)

nxnje said:


> Just reviewed the KBEAR Knight earbuds.
> I think these are very good for the price.
> I do not own many earbuds, but I feel these sound good. My EB2 from NiceHCK really struggle behind them.
> 
> ...



As someone that owns both EB2 and KBEAR knight, I own the EB2, I think the overall sound is balanced, how do you compare the sound curve to the EB2? this guy mentioned its "bass lite":



baskingshark said:


> The kbear knight has quite good reviews on headfi. I don't have it as it looked a bit bass lite from reviews and I'm a basshead. Generally most buds won't be able to give good subbass extension and quantity compared to IEMs, but i guess if u are not particular about bass, that's an option.



If I like the EB2 sound wise, and I think EB2 dose not lack bass, its just decent.. then I will be ok with the KBEAR knight?

And another reference is the PK3. I actually think I enjoyed more the PK3 than the EB2, but it has been a long time so i dont remember.

Btw this guy rated the EB2 above the Knight...

https://audiofool.reviews/2018/10/03/nicehck-eb2-earbud/

https://audiofool.reviews/2020/02/16/kbear-knight/


----------



## baskingshark

beyermann said:


> As someone that owns both EB2 and KBEAR knight, I own the EB2, I think the overall sound is balanced, how do you compare the sound curve to the EB2? this guy mentioned its "bass lite":
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Check out some headfi reviews on the KBEAR Knight here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kb-ear-knight.24133/reviews

Well it's frequently sold at $11 USD during sales so it's not a big investment per se, like just give a couple of Starbucks or MacDonalds meals a miss to get a set to try.


----------



## fonkepala

DBaldock9 said:


> I'm not a big fan of the way that the SPC cable tends to coil & tangle, but the earbuds do have a big, open sound - rather than an in-your-head sort of sound.



Yup, that happens with the Monk Lite 120ohm SPC that I have as well. Not so nice cable. I expected better.


----------



## zikarus (Feb 19, 2020)

Hi guys, can someone please give me a hint to the earbuds that are considered to be the leaders of the pack soundwise atm? Maybe divided into a few categories like

> 400
200-400
100-200
<100

This thread is as long as it is old so it is a bit uneasy to get an overview...

PS I might add that I was quite up to date until Fearless Audio appeared. I ended up at that time with a few IEM of which the S8F and especially the Moondrop Kanas Pro became my daily drivers. Now I am interested in replacing some IEM with 1 or 2 earbuds due to wear issues. Therefore my question since I am a total noob regarding earbuds...


----------



## SiggyFraud

Is it K's Bell LB, or LBB? Or are these two different models? I found two listings on AE with two different names and some differences in specification.
Also, does anyone have these two models of K's 64 Ohm? 1- link, 2- link Are they the same, only with different cable, or are there actual differences between them? Specifications vary a little, but I tend not to trust them too much anyway.


----------



## 40760

Just received a few more custom pairs of Kube Plus... Going to have to test them out tomorrow to make sure that they are in working order.


----------



## captione

I'm glad buying the DIY Fengru Tingos TC200 earbuds. Smooth sounding buds, and this single handedly won my preference for a sound sig soulfinding. Smooth, balanced, wide and warm enough to create a real sense of grit to abrasive genres (Listening to a Japanese post-punk act rn with this) and delicate ones like Ichiko Aoba's 0. All of that for like, 3 to 4 dollars depending where you're from.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 20, 2020)

captione said:


> I'm glad buying the DIY Fengru Tingos TC200 earbuds. Smooth sounding buds, and this single handedly won my preference for a sound sig soulfinding. Smooth, balanced, wide and warm enough to create a real sense of grit to abrasive genres (Listening to a Japanese post-punk act rn with this) and delicate ones like Ichiko Aoba's 0. All of that for like, 3 to 4 dollars depending where you're from.


I skip Tingo TC300 and bought DIY TC200, TC400 (gold and red) and TG-38. TC200 is my second favorite. TG-38  proved to be the best of the Tingo series.
The cable is similar to TC200 but softer. Bass is more refined and treble has slightly more details.
The only thing that bothers me is the sibilance that sometimes appears on some songs.
TC400 uses 16mm driver (not 15.4mm). This driver is inferior in terms of sound with the other two models.
When the driver is removed from the shell, which is glued, the color peels off and you can see below the original silver color.
The shell does not have any "lip" that holds the driver, so it cannot be used for with 15.4mm driver. The best thing here is the incredibly soft cables.
It is very convenient and comfortable for smaller earbuds.


----------



## rkw

@HungryPanda is all set buy a LOT of earbuds. 
https://techcrunch.com/2020/02/20/h...pp-for-chinese-communities-raises-20-million/


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 20, 2020)

rkw said:


> @HungryPanda is all set buy a LOT of earbuds.
> https://techcrunch.com/2020/02/20/h...pp-for-chinese-communities-raises-20-million/



...and maybe a house big enough to fit them all.



furyossa said:


> TG-38 proved to be the best of the Tingo series.
> The cable is similar to TC200 but softer. Bass is more refined and treble has slightly more details.



I am interested in this one but where can I find it?

@palestofwhite I have not forgotten about your 1More question.  I just have not had a chance to try to compare them... something I am not good at anyway.  I can say I like them both with the EO320 being an easier fit for my ears.

This is what I wrote when I put them in my list.  Maybe you already saw that.
1MORE  EO320 - gold  - excellent all rounder
IMORE E1008 -gold - gorgeous


----------



## Mcarto

Hi I'm a new earbuds geek on the forum 
Have a few earbuds [Memt t5, Quian39, Vido, Monk+, Ms16, K's 64] but with help I want to expand my collection with some better ones.
I'm looking for something that will play similar to Monk+ or Ms16 but two class better. Expecting clear wide, detailed soundstage and good bass (I'm not bashed). Consider Shozy Cygnus and  Smabat M1 Pro, Willsound mk32. Shozy may better one but bass?? I'm not shure.
I usually listen rock and symphonic/gothic metal, sometimes jazz, regge...


----------



## furyossa (Feb 20, 2020)

mbwilson111 said:


> I am interested in this one but where can I find it?


DIY Tingo TC200
DIY Tingo TG-38S (this image on Ali was taken from the original model. DIY model on the image below. )
DIY Tingo TC400 (skip this one, color is ok but this is just the paint over silver. BTW ... cable is great)


----------



## mbwilson111

furyossa said:


> DIY Tingo TC400 (skip this one, color is ok but this is just the paint over silver. BTW ... cable is great)



Thanks.

I have had the TC400 for a couple of months. and I think it sounds great with my Daps and with my desktop dac/amp.  Interesting about the paint.  I have the gold one.  I think there others that like them.  It just does not suit your preferences.. that does not make it bad for everyone.

My husband has the TC200 but I don't think I have heard it.  He did make us both some DIY buds using that same silver shell though... actually a couple of different ones.

I am definitely interested in thatTG-38s but I wonder if it has the same drivers that were used a few years ago when it first came out.  A search has turned up some very old conversations about it.


----------



## captione

furyossa said:


> DIY Tingo TC200
> DIY Tingo TG-38S (this image on Ali was taken from the original model. DIY model on the image below. )
> DIY Tingo TC400 (skip this one, color is ok but this is just the paint over silver. BTW ... cable is great)


I'm gonna buy some pair of TG38s.



Do you have the same boxy jack for your DIY TC200 though?


----------



## furyossa

Mcarto said:


> Hi I'm a new earbuds geek on the forum
> Have a few earbuds [Memt t5, Quian39, Vido, Monk+, Ms16, K's 64] but with help I want to expand my collection with some better ones.
> I'm looking for something that will play similar to Monk+ or Ms16 but two class better. Expecting clear wide, detailed soundstage and good bass (I'm not bashed). Consider Shozy Cygnus and  Smabat M1 Pro, Willsound mk32. Shozy may better one but bass?? I'm not shure.
> I usually listen rock and symphonic/gothic metal, sometimes jazz, regge...


You can try HE150. You have the same Pro version there. Basically, it's the same driver except that the driver's cover and shell are different. 
In the pro version, the cable is tangled easily. For me personally HE150 (not pro) sounds slightly better.
I'm interested in Seahf 150ohm. I don't know is it better then HE150.


----------



## furyossa

captione said:


> I'm gonna buy some pair of TG38s.
> 
> Do you have the same boxy jack for your DIY TC200 though?


Yes. Exactly the same. TG-38S has better jack and softer cable


----------



## furyossa (Feb 20, 2020)

mbwilson111 said:


> It just does not suit your preferences.. that does not make it bad for everyone.


You are right. I agree. I didn't say it was a bad driver but no better than TG-38S, at least for me.
It seems to me that TC400 driver does not follow the Tingo sound signature. The TG-38 is similar to the TC200, ie slightly improved version.
As I mentioned earlier the only thing that bothers me is sibilance. After burn-in process sibilance is reduced but sometimes it does appear.


----------



## captione

furyossa said:


> Yes. Exactly the same. TG-38S has better jack and softer cable


Okay. The cable on the TC200 is kind of short so I'd probably buy the TG38s. I saw some "TC200" earbuds on Shopee that has the same design as TG38s, should I jump on it or should I buy the OG version that you linked? I guess the sellers arw getting confused with tons of Tingo variants these days.


The L and R indicators are different from actual DIY TC200s too.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 20, 2020)

captione said:


> Okay. The cable on the TC200 is kind of short so I'd probably buy the TG38s. I saw some "TC200" earbuds on Shopee that has the same design as TG38s, should I jump on it or should I buy the OG version that you linked? I guess the sellers arw getting confused with tons of Tingo variants these days.
> 
> The L and R indicators are different from actual DIY TC200s too.


It looks exactly like my TG-38. L-R markings the same.
Original version of Tingo TG-38 (not DIY)


----------



## Mcarto

furyossa said:


> You can try HE150. You have the same Pro version there. Basically, it's the same driver except that the driver's cover and shell are different.
> In the pro version, the cable is tangled easily. For me personally HE150 (not pro) sounds slightly better.
> I'm interested in Seahf 150ohm. I don't know is it better then HE150.


Think for something more expensive 40-80$. HE150 are similar to my K's 64 as know.


----------



## robar

fusinato said:


> Hey guys, could you help me with a earbud accident I had?
> 
> Yesterday I discovered that I let my B40s in the pocket, and washed it with my clothes...
> 
> ...


Maybe the tuning foam got loose in the shell, happens easily with pk type shells. You can open it up and push it back to place if nothing else helps


----------



## captione

My FAAEAL Iris, Snow Lotus 1.0 and 1.0+ are on the way. The shipping took like nearly a month despite being reasonably near in China. I guess the COVID is affecting the logistics down there.
I'll post some first impressions here once I finally get my hands on it.


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> @palestofwhite I have not forgotten about your 1More question.  I just have not had a chance to try to compare them... something I am not good at anyway.  I can say I like them both with the EO320 being an easier fit for my ears.
> 
> This is what I wrote when I put them in my list.  Maybe you already saw that.
> 1MORE  EO320 - gold  - excellent all rounder
> IMORE E1008 -gold - gorgeous



My order of the EO320 got cancelled, so I'm left to decide if I should get back another pair of E1008 again. I needed something really good with mic and that tends to be harder to find around here...


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> My order of the EO320 got cancelled, so I'm left to decide if I should get back another pair of E1008 again. I needed something really good with mic and that tends to be harder to find around here...



Why did the EO320 get cancelled?  ....and why did you get rid of your E1008?


----------



## mbwilson111

captione said:


> I guess the COVID is affecting the logistics down there



That is an understatement.

It has not been talked about in this thread as much as some of the others but after the long Chinese New Year holiday work was meant to begin on Feb 2nd.    That was extended to Feb 18th because of the virus.  Maybe things are starting to move again now.  It seems like your seller was one of the ones who could not resume work until the 18th.


----------



## 40760

mbwilson111 said:


> Why did the EO320 get cancelled?  ....and why did you get rid of your E1008?



I'm not sure why my order got cancelled but maybe because the seller was not confident of shipping his stock from China. As for the E1008, I gave it to my good friend who loves using earbuds...


----------



## mbwilson111

palestofwhite said:


> I'm not sure why my order got cancelled but maybe because the seller was not confident of shipping his stock from China. As for the E1008, I gave it to my good friend who loves using earbuds...



I bought both from Amazon UK.. £29 and £49..  Can you speak to the seller about possibly ordering again after the problems in China settle down?

Thats cool that you can appreciate the mic.  For me the only thing mics are good for is to help me tell right from left     Sadly, one of my favorite DAPs (iBasso DX120)  will not play properly with a 3pole plug.  I  have to add a short stereo adapter.


----------



## captione

mbwilson111 said:


> That is an understatement.
> 
> It has not been talked about in this thread as much as some of the others but after the long Chinese New Year holiday work was meant to begin on Feb 2nd.    That was extended to Feb 18th because of the virus.  Maybe things are starting to move again now.  It seems like your seller was one of the ones who could not resume work until the 18th.


Ikr? 
Actually I originally bought my FAAEALS to another seller in China (ordered them first week of February), but yeah, since it's Chinese new year and all, I had to cancel them because it's taking too long (there's a preorder status when I ordered, 10 days they said but it took much longer) + I'm just bothering their long vacation.

After that, I tried Fengru and surely enough, they didn't have the preorder status. Cancelled my order there, and voila. Told them to take the orders as slow as they can but I'm glad it's on the receiving side and not stuck in shipping hell lol


----------



## beyermann

Can someone recommend me some cheap earbuds that have a volume control and no microphone? why do they always stick a damn microphone these days? I miss some old sonys I had that ad an analogical volume control (a wheel) so I could control the volume anywhere irrespective of software. Can someone me point me to some earbud like that?


----------



## captione

beyermann said:


> Can someone recommend me some cheap earbuds that have a volume control and no microphone? why do they always stick a damn microphone these days? I miss some old sonys I had that ad an analogical volume control (a wheel) so I could control the volume anywhere irrespective of software. Can someone me point me to some earbud like that?


The OG Sennheiser MX500 lol
But other than that, it's the only earbud that I can think of with only a remote volume control. You might as well buy a cable only earbud giving you more plentiful of options.


----------



## DBaldock9

beyermann said:


> Can someone recommend me some cheap earbuds that have a volume control and no microphone? why do they always stick a damn microphone these days? I miss some old sonys I had that ad an analogical volume control (a wheel) so I could control the volume anywhere irrespective of software. Can someone me point me to some earbud like that?



A few years ago, I bought the Langsdom T16 earbuds from AliExpress, for my Dad. 
They have a slider-type Volume Control, and a Mic at the splitter. 
They're listed as not available on AliExpress, but they are shown here - https://www.ezgiz.com/product/langs...e-headset-with-microphone-for-iphone-samsung/


----------



## robar (Feb 21, 2020)

beyermann said:


> Can someone recommend me some cheap earbuds that have a volume control and no microphone? why do they always stick a damn microphone these days? I miss some old sonys I had that ad an analogical volume control (a wheel) so I could control the volume anywhere irrespective of software. Can someone me point me to some earbud like that?


This one has sony style analog slider (not wheel), but it does have mic as well. The sound in itself is dark and muddy (because they forgot to put in tuning foam) but has  potential, if you happen to have horseshoe tuning foam or medical tape you can put it into the shell over the vents and it will become more balanced, quite ok for the price. Opening up is easy I haven't noticed any glue https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32839983390.html


----------



## ClieOS

Smabat ST-10s. No detail yet but it is coming.


----------



## SiggyFraud

SiggyFraud said:


> Is it K's Bell LB, or LBB? Or are these two different models? I found two listings on AE with two different names and some differences in specification.


Anyone?


----------



## Mcarto

Smabat m1 pro or Willsound mk3 has better bass and details for metal and rock?


----------



## wskl

SiggyFraud said:


> Is it K's Bell LB, or LBB? Or are these two different models? I found two listings on AE with two different names and some differences in specification.



They are the same model, just different wording on the 2 listings.


----------



## ClieOS

wskl said:


> They are the same model, just different wording on the 2 listings.



Also note that the LBB upgraded model, the LBB*s *was released just before CNY, but was caught up by the outbreak and thus haven't made it to the international market yet. It retains mostly the same tuning as LBB, but slightly more lively and upfront. If you are not in any hurry and are interested in LBB, the new LBBs will be the better choice.


----------



## captione

Gottem



I did some testing and right off the bat, Iris really takes the cake, real balanced and natural. The Snow Lotus 1.0 mids are just hollow somehow, with some tinny highs, timbre kinda sucked. I might try these on another source and see if the Snow Lotus 1.0 is scalable. Might be just me.


----------



## baskingshark

ClieOS said:


> Smabat ST-10s. No detail yet but it is coming.



Nice looking forward to it. Hope the BAT coronavirus thingy doesn't delay the SmaBAT too much. And that all the sick folks in china get well soon.


----------



## assassin10000

ClieOS said:


> Smabat ST-10s. No detail yet but it is coming.



Ooooh. Hope it's a 14.8mm driver version.


----------



## captione

So update:
I think there's a real nasty roll off between oncoming upper mids and 5khz to 14khz on the Snow Lotus 1.0
At least spiking some EQ on there with some upper mid lift will make the vocals less nasal and timbre nicer. I think there's a potential for this but dang, It's wasted on the tuning.


----------



## SiggyFraud

wskl said:


> They are the same model, just different wording on the 2 listings.





ClieOS said:


> Also note that the LBB upgraded model, the LBB*s *was released just before CNY, but was caught up by the outbreak and thus haven't made it to the international market yet. It retains mostly the same tuning as LBB, but slightly more lively and upfront. If you are not in any hurry and are interested in LBB, the new LBBs will be the better choice.


Thanks! Really appreciate your feedback.


----------



## golov17

beyermann said:


> Can someone recommend me some cheap earbuds that have a volume control and no microphone? why do they always stick a damn microphone these days? I miss some old sonys I had that ad an analogical volume control (a wheel) so I could control the volume anywhere irrespective of software. Can someone me point me to some earbud like that?


#Aliexpress US $5.70 | EStgoSZ DIY MX500 In Ear Earphone Flat Head Plug Earplugs Stereo Headsets 3.5mm Earbud Bass DJ Earphones Use For Vido Pad Phones
https://a.aliexpress.ru/_eMrvVF


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 22, 2020)

captione said:


> I did some testing and right off the bat, Iris really takes the cake, real balanced and natural. The Snow Lotus 1.0 mids are just hollow somehow, with some tinny highs, timbre kinda sucked. I might try these on another source and see if the Snow Lotus 1.0 is scalable. Might be just me.



Hi, that is not at all the way I hear my Snow Lotus 1.0.  The way you are describing it, I think it could be out of phase.  The first thing I do when I get a new bud or iem is to check they are in phase.  Have you done that?


----------



## captione (Feb 22, 2020)

mbwilson111 said:


> Hi, that is not at all the way I hear my Snow Lotus 1.0.  The way you are describing it, I think it could be out of phase.  The first thing I do when I get a new bud or iem is to check they are in phase.  Have you done that?


Nope, tested it and they were completely fine. Even with the fixed EQ they're also fine. I have music tracks with stereo stunts and I don't really hear the out of phase sensation.

I have the transparent 1.0 version if you're asking. Maybe the SS is different on various shell colors, it's EQ-able and that somehow fixed the sound to my liking.

Update: extensively tested it (thank god for a mono option) and there's nothing wrong with the wiring. The sound is basically just not my preference and some tracks seems off. It's perfectly fine. The lower upcoming to the upper mids are just weird, it's not hollow but a tad bit elevated, and some roll off in the upper and lower treble that makes some tracks (esp vocals) sound real unnatural.


----------



## NStef

How do you check if an earbud is in phase?  Sorry to be so clueless.


----------



## captione

NStef said:


> How do you check if an earbud is in phase?  Sorry to be so clueless.


Here's a more useful guide. 

I can't really explain it properly but if your stereo equipment has mismatched wiring, the stereo image would be mangled up instead of playing in front of you like any 2 set of speakers would.


----------



## SiggyFraud

NStef said:


> How do you check if an earbud is in phase?  Sorry to be so clueless.


I find this website to be extremely helpful, not just for polarity checks: https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php


----------



## NStef

SiggyFraud and captione, thanks for the responses to my question. 

I just received an earbud today, Willsound MK32, so I will check out your suggestions.


----------



## superuser1

Finally ordered Smabat M1 pro... however when the box arrived it said M1 ... are they the same ones. I thought of ST-10 as advised but thought it would be slightly bigger so decided to go with the M1 Pro. It was meant as a gift and the intended receiver says its a little too big for the ears... any other recommendations of a smaller one with detachable cables?


----------



## assassin10000

superuser1 said:


> Finally ordered Smabat M1 pro... however when the box arrived it said M1 ... are they the same ones. I thought of ST-10 as advised but thought it would be slightly bigger so decided to go with the M1 Pro. It was meant as a gift and the intended receiver says its a little too big for the ears... any other recommendations of a smaller one with detachable cables?



Thats what the box says. But it is the M1 pro. They currently only make the ST-10 & M1 pro.

What is too 'large' about it; length, barrel/body, diameter of cover, etc?

The M1 is smaller diameter at 16.1mm vs ST-10 at 16.8mm for the driver. Few and far between for smaller there.


----------



## superuser1

assassin10000 said:


> Thats what the box says. But it is the M1 pro. They currently only make the ST-10 & M1 pro.
> 
> What is too 'large' about it; length, barrel/body, diameter of cover, etc?
> 
> The M1 is smaller diameter at 16.1mm vs ST-10 at 16.8mm for the driver. Few and far between for smaller there.


Thank you for that. I meant smaller diameter.. thats why i choose M1 Pro over ST-10 but still a bit large. Would the BGVP DX5 be smaller?


----------



## captione (Feb 23, 2020)

I just got the FAAEAL Snow Lotus 1.0+ with my Nicehck DB3. 
Protip: Just buy the 1.0+ next time LOL, or Iris for much cheaper.

I like the balance of the 1.0+ over the two. It's delicate but gives enough good extension to both high and lows. Mids are executed well. Sound staging is a bit wide, with nice depth that makes for an engaging listen.


----------



## ClieOS

superuser1 said:


> Thank you for that. I meant smaller diameter.. thats why i choose M1 Pro over ST-10 but still a bit large. Would the BGVP DX5 be smaller?



M1 already used one of the smallest driver around. Any smaller we will be talking about Apple earpod.

...And no, DX5 is larger because of the housing.


----------



## superuser1

ClieOS said:


> M1 already used one of the smallest driver around. Any smaller we will be talking about Apple earpod.
> 
> ...And no, DX5 is larger because of the housing.


Thank you very much. I have no intentions of even losing my way towards Apple pods .. i was thinking of some of the manufacturers used micro drivers or something. Appreciate the information.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Feb 23, 2020)

Still, I was surprised by the earbuds from Thailand

*LungAudio V2 (Uncle audio) / ลุง audio*

The first impression is a mix of Earbuds Anonymous and Willsound MK2.
Sound warm, little bright, smooth and perfect, airy, balance, sweet. The middle is full, has a good mass and sound weight, scene slightly clamped. The treble from a warm, good sparkle and details, the texture is full, clear, good music separation, enough bass.


Spoiler



https://www.facebook.com/LungAudio/
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004032232758






















*HAANJIK Karawek / การเวก*

Metal has never sounded so good in my earbuds as on these. Poorly recorded albums, cutting sounds of musical instruments in metal, everything in these earbuds sounds great and does not tire.
The sound in the middle is not bright, not dark, has a rich texture, highly clear and realistic details, absolutely good separation of music, balance, control, slightly bloom, have an ambiance, high accuracy. The scene feels the dimension, width, depth, dimension that is better than general earbuds at this price. Enough bass. not much and not little. It has an acceptable amount.


Spoiler



https://www.facebook.com/HAANJIK/


















I bought here


Spoiler



https://www.facebook.com/thanat.khongmueng


----------



## golov17

Thailand knows how to please us...


----------



## Gédéon Molle (Feb 23, 2020)

Ahhhh! Blox, I had BE3, great earbuds for a nice price.


----------



## assassin10000

superuser1 said:


> Thank you for that. I meant smaller diameter.. thats why i choose M1 Pro over ST-10 but still a bit large. Would the BGVP DX5 be smaller?



There is the nicehck ebx which is 15.9mm diameter, but has a similar barrel type body. And the ourart acg or ti7 which is 15.75mm dia and has a 5.35mm dia width.

Otherwise maybe the toneking ros1 is supposed to be small but it's not detachable.


----------



## ShabtabQ

beyermann said:


> My EB2 is definitely broken. The left earbud goes on and off as i wiggle the cable. The red plastic is also coming off... a bit disappointed its been like 1 or 2 years of use. Sound is good tho.
> 
> Anyone a bit paranoide about buying from alibaba cuz of coronavirus? anyway to buy good earphones outside of china?
> 
> Anything good to pick on amazon?




Same happened with me broken EB2 not even a year.


----------



## ShabtabQ

So my EB2 broke, can someone recommend me a earbud for under 20 USD for gaming.


----------



## Mcarto

ShabtabQ said:


> So my EB2 broke, can someone recommend me a earbud for under 20 USD for gaming.


Monks+


----------



## cathee

ShabtabQ said:


> So my EB2 broke, can someone recommend me a earbud for under 20 USD for gaming.



I have a pair of 2.5mm Snow Lotus 2.0s - they were ~$18 when I got there, pretty damn decent.


----------



## ShabtabQ

ShabtabQ said:


> Same happened with me broken EB2 not even a year.




I replaced the EB2 cable today with my broken RY4S cable, and I'm enjoying the EB2 again, it does sound really nice tho, feels like it's improved, I really hated the EB2 cable so sticky and tangle guru it was.


----------



## Yobster69

Hi everybody. 
Does anybody own and have any thoughts on the Rose Maria yet? I cannot find any reviews of it and I thought this one would get more mentions than it does. 
TIA


----------



## ShabtabQ

Please recommend some good cushions on Ali recently I bought a pack of 50 ones and they are rubbish.


----------



## jogawag

ShabtabQ said:


> Please recommend some good cushions on Ali recently I bought a pack of 50 ones and they are rubbish.



I recommend you below.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32671911259.html

Below for Donuts.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32683389893.html


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> I recommend you below.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32671911259.html
> 
> Below for Donuts.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32683389893.html


And don't forget "premium" one, the HieGi


----------



## mbwilson111

jogawag said:


> I recommend you below.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32671911259.html
> 
> Below for Donuts.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32683389893.html



That is what I use but we still have to be gentle with any foams... any of them can tear.  I know some people have the knack of doing it quickly but it can take me 10 or 20 minutes to ease them on.


----------



## Mcarto

Ordered Willsound mk3 and **** BK2 (special offers now)


----------



## ClieOS (Feb 26, 2020)

Yobster69 said:


> Hi everybody.
> Does anybody own and have any thoughts on the Rose Maria yet? I cannot find any reviews of it and I thought this one would get more mentions than it does.
> TIA



Exceptionally wide soundstage and basically an evolved 1st gen Rose Masya. It sounds more like a miniaturized open back headphone than an earbud. Not the easiest to drive due to low impedance, but definitely ToTL when driven well.


----------



## Yobster69

ClieOS said:


> Exceptionally wide soundstage and basically an evolved 1st gen Rose Masya. It sounds more like a miniaturized open back headphone than an earned. Not the easiest to drive due to low impedance, but definitely ToTL when driven well.


Thank you ClieOS, much appreciated. 
Are they worth the hefty price tag, IYO?


----------



## ClieOS

Yobster69 said:


> Thank you ClieOS, much appreciated.
> Are they worth the hefty price tag, IYO?



I won't regret paying the full price tag for Maria, and considered it a good deal since I got a good discount as part of the early buyers.


----------



## Infoseeker (Feb 26, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> I won't regret paying the full price tag for Maria, and considered it a good deal since I got a good discount as part of the early buyers.



Pull out the Simphonio Dragon 2 plus and compare. XD

Dqsm durandot has good base that won't need a perfect fit. 

For me it is a speaker like presentation. Though it is female voice/pop focused.


----------



## golov17 (Feb 26, 2020)

HongKong Post has finally works.  My Maria went to me, waiting for the opportunity to get to know each other, lol


----------



## NickL33

ClieOS said:


> I won't regret paying the full price tag for Maria, and considered it a good deal since I got a good discount as part of the early buyers.



How goes the bass and micro detail?


----------



## ClieOS

NickL33 said:


> How goes the bass and micro detail?



Bass is adequate, which is basically how Rose earbuds usually are. It does require a good fit to show, so full foam pad is recommended. Micro detail is very good, well extended treble but not the brightest.


----------



## tendou

Mcarto said:


> Ordered Willsound mk3 and **** BK2 (special offers now)


What special offers?


----------



## captione

You know what the Snow Lotus 1.0 sonically reminds me of? Monk Plus. 

The mids were dry, no wonder why I almost thought they were out of phase. At least it's miles better than the Monk plus, imagine it but with more slight bass and really nice treble performance. I still prefer the more robust 1.0+ sound. Might buy the Snow Lotus 2.0 and Iris 2.0 next time, since I'm really impressed by them.


----------



## baskingshark

captione said:


> You know what the Snow Lotus 1.0 sonically reminds me of? Monk Plus.
> 
> The mids were dry, no wonder why I almost thought they were out of phase. At least it's miles better than the Monk plus, imagine it but with more slight bass and really nice treble performance. I still prefer the more robust 1.0+ sound. Might buy the Snow Lotus 2.0 and Iris 2.0 next time, since I'm really impressed by them.



If u are a mids lover check out the FAAEAL Datura Pro. Very midcentric, with good timbre. But the roll off in the subbass makes it a bit too basslite for my basshead tastes. But I think those that want a neutral bass may appreciate it.


----------



## captione

baskingshark said:


> If u are a mids lover check out the FAAEAL Datura Pro. Very midcentric, with good timbre. But the roll off in the subbass makes it a bit too basslite for my basshead tastes. But I think those that want a neutral bass may appreciate it.


It's already on my buylist for an earbud that isn't an MX500 shell LOL, but I'm glad you recc'd that because I was gonna ask on what y'all thought about Datura Pros.


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> If u are a mids lover check out the FAAEAL Datura Pro. Very midcentric, with good timbre. But the roll off in the subbass makes it a bit too basslite for my basshead tastes. But I think those that want a neutral bass may appreciate it.


Both, Datura Pro and DX5 have the same issue with low end. Their speakers have a lot of potentials, but the poor venting system does not allow that potential to be displayed. 
Obviously the lack of a rear vent causes a lack of sub-bass and narrow soundstage in most cases.


----------



## captione

I think the TY Hi-Z 32ohms had the most sub bass quantity in all of my budding collection. I can comfortably play drone metal without complaining how the drone riffs are too anemic.


----------



## furyossa

captione said:


> I think the TY Hi-Z 32ohms had the most sub bass quantity in all of my budding collection. I can comfortably play drone metal without complaining how the drone riffs are too anemic.


I've been looking at TY Hi-Z 150ohm and TY Hi-Z 320ohm for a while now, but still can not decide which one to buy.
For me the most quantity of sub-bass I achieved with this mod for MX500 shell with DIY 15.4mm 64ohm titanium coated driver. 
And as for the quality sub-bass, HE150 satisfies my personal taste


----------



## Infoseeker (Feb 26, 2020)

furyossa said:


> I've been looking at TY Hi-Z 150ohm and TY Hi-Z 320ohm for a while now, but still can not decide which one to buy.
> For me the most quantity of sub-bass I achieved with this mod for MX500 shell with DIY 15.4mm 64ohm titanium coated driver.
> And as for the quality sub-bass, HE150 satisfies my personal taste



Any AliExpress seller already have those installed in a case?

Would be interesting to compare that to my Simphonio Dragon 2 plus's good subbass but little midbass. .


----------



## Mcarto

tendou said:


> What special offers?


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32957710736.html?spm=a2g0s.12269583.0.0.3bac4bdbKbTARv
Seems good, anyway earbuds coming with silver cable so price is ok.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 26, 2020)

Infoseeker said:


> Any AliExpress seller already have those installed in a case?
> 
> Would be interesting to compare that to my Simphonio Dragon 2 plus's good subbass but little midbass. .


No, I don't think so. This is a cheap driver and It's all about quantity here.
I had a resonance problem in the plastic shell so I switched the speaker to a metal shell.
The resonance was gone, but the clarity of the sound did not improve much.
Great clarity, soundstage, and imaging are probably what sets Simphonio Dragon 2 apart from other models.
Another titanium coated driver that I tested is 10mm 48 ohm with this wooden housing.
This driver represents nice clarity and balance without boomy and harsh sound and it can compete with "big boys".
When I have free time I'll post the making of for this model on DIY Earbuds thread.


----------



## furyossa

Mcarto said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32957710736.html?spm=a2g0s.12269583.0.0.3bac4bdbKbTARv
> Seems good, anyway earbuds coming with silver cable so price is ok.


I can't open this link. Here is the link
The sale price was $22.50


----------



## baskingshark

furyossa said:


> I've been looking at TY Hi-Z 150ohm and TY Hi-Z 320ohm for a while now, but still can not decide which one to buy.
> For me the most quantity of sub-bass I achieved with this mod for MX500 shell with DIY 15.4mm 64ohm titanium coated driver.
> And as for the quality sub-bass, HE150 satisfies my personal taste



Do u know how the HE 150 compares to the pro version?


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> Do u know how the HE 150 compares to the pro version?


My measurement is certainly not precise, but you can see that the "regular" version has a little more detail than the "pro".





I guess that both models use the same driver. Cables and shells are different, but I think that different cover on the driver 
greatly affects the change in sound (metal mesh vs plastic).
The shell on the PRO version seams nice from the outside. I didn't open my PRO but I saw some wrong design decisions for the shell interior
which drastically deteriorate the sound quality. For example HEADROOM MS16 shell is quite reminiscent of HE150Pro but inside it looks like this.




There is no point in listing what is wrong here, mostly everything, this is a nightmare for sound.


----------



## jogawag

baskingshark said:


> Do u know how the HE 150 compares to the pro version?



Previously I had HE150PRO and HE150.

HE150PRO feels like ordinary earbuds with V-Shaped sound.

In comparison, the HE150 has an impressive sub-bus. Also, the vocal and sound itself are thick and bold, and the sound stage is spacious. Given the price, other earbuds don't match this? I feel.

However, according to the link below, the slightly more expensive SEAHF150ohm with the same driver has even better bass because of the excellent cable. . .
http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds/870#post_13394688


----------



## baskingshark

Thanks for the replies guys. So it seems the non pro HE 150 is better than the pro version LoL?


----------



## furyossa (Feb 26, 2020)

jogawag said:


> Previously I had HE150PRO and HE150.
> 
> HE150PRO feels like ordinary earbuds with V-Shaped sound.
> 
> ...


Yup. We share the same opinion about HE150. Also, I'm interested in SEAHF150ohm. 
I broke one driver on HE150 when I tried to remove a driver from the shell to swap another cable. 
I will order again HE150 and SEAHF150ohm.
These older 150ohm drivers are quite remarkable.
Speaking of 150ohm drivers, has anyone tried YINMAN 150ohm? (old & new)
I really like this classic wooden look.


----------



## Infoseeker

Update on my dqsm Turandot , getting another unit now. 

It is much better now. On same tier as the Simphonio Dragon 2 plus. But it is warmer and less fatiguing. 

it is not an airy Soundstage like the Simphonio Dragon 2 plus. It is more like an indoor orchestra soundstage, where sound is far away by still silent when should be. 

Simphonio Dragon 2 plus ismore energetic. Especially for transparency, and especially for female voiced songs. 

DQSM Turandots for other genres and the sound compensates well for not having the perfect fit.


----------



## Mhog55

Not trying to hijack - I can't seem to give these away, so I figured I'd list these deals for earbuds enthusiasts. 
I have a mint Smabat M1 Pro with all accessories for sale. Asking 35 bucks shipped, lower 48 only. 
Also have a brand new Toneking TO180 for sale. 40 dollars. Take both for 70 total. Can also add a free pair of **** PT15s if wanted. Open to offers


----------



## furyossa

Infoseeker said:


> Update on my dqsm Turandot , getting another unit now.
> 
> It is much better now. On same tier as the Simphonio Dragon 2 plus. But it is warmer and less fatiguing.
> 
> ...


You have at least best of both world


----------



## jogawag

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for the replies guys. So it seems the non pro HE 150 is better than the pro version LoL?


Please see the reviews below. HE150 gets higher ratings than HE150PRO.
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/he-150ohm-hifi-earbud.22100/
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/he-150pro-by-he-hi-fi-end.22681/



furyossa said:


> Yup. We share the same opinion about HE150. Also, I'm interested in SEAHF150ohm.
> I broke one driver on HE150 when I tried to remove a driver from the shell to swap another cable.
> I will order again HE150 and SEAHF150ohm.
> These older 150ohm drivers are quite remarkable.
> ...


I tried old YINMAN 150ohm a long time ago.
However, the quality control seemed to be bad. The stamp on the R-L was reversed, and after 2 weeks of use, the driver's part had come off, so I returned it. Sound quality was not so bad.

So, why not buy new YINMAN 150ohm?


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> Please see the reviews below. HE150 gets higher ratings than HE150PRO.
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/he-150ohm-hifi-earbud.22100/
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/he-150pro-by-he-hi-fi-end.22681/
> 
> ...


They right about HE150. After burn-in everything changes, the sound gets better for sure.The cable looks poor but it's not so bad,
On the other hand, HE150Pro cable gets tangled up a lot and it's very annoying.
Probably because of previous "bad" experience with the old YINMAN model, no one dares to buy a new model 
The old model is also upgraded with a new white cable.


----------



## tendou

Mcarto said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32957710736.html?spm=a2g0s.12269583.0.0.3bac4bdbKbTARv
> Seems good, anyway earbuds coming with silver cable so price is ok.


Oh, I thought special offers for willsound. Already got bk2


----------



## captione

Welp, ordered the Monk Lite. Can't really refute the 10% discount voucher. Hope they're good. 
-1 off my buylist finally.


----------



## jant71

Search gave nothing here but anything on the Shozy SG.



Penon only has a price, 32Ohm and 15.4mm driver that's it. Anybody heard it yet? Know it's signature?


----------



## captione (Feb 27, 2020)

I might try these on my pairs.


Spoiler








Looks really interesting.


----------



## furyossa

captione said:


> I might try these on my pairs.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Yup, if you want to reduce "kill" and mids for sure this is the way to go.


----------



## captione

furyossa said:


> Yup, if you want to reduce "kill" and mids for sure this is the way to go.


If that's gonna save some of my dry-as-hell "midcentric" earbuds by literally just "killing" them, then I'm up for that risk. 

Also if that doesn't work I'll probably just give it to my grandpa for the old earpod-style earbuds he uses for his laptop.


----------



## furyossa

captione said:


> Also if that doesn't work I'll probably just give it to my grandpa for the old earpod-style earbuds he uses for his laptop.


It's not a very smart idea


----------



## captione

furyossa said:


> It's not a very smart idea


How? Can you elaborate?


----------



## jogawag (Feb 27, 2020)

captione said:


> I might try these on my pairs.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



Don't you know that introducing such an ear tip that converts earbuds to canal type in this thread will make Mr. @ClieOS or Mr. @furyossa feel bad?


----------



## furyossa (Feb 27, 2020)

captione said:


> How? Can you elaborate?


Are you try to torture your grandfather with earbuds that can not hear? Why man, why?  
Buy him a pair of Monks and grandpa will be totally happy
Also, ask for balanced version


----------



## ClieOS

jogawag said:


> Don't you know that introducing such an ear tip that converts earbuds to canal type in this thread will make Mr. @ClieOS or Mr. @furyossa feel bad?



Not as much if it makes them sound bad


----------



## captione

LOL, I didn't know I was triggering such pet peeves 

I also gave my grandma some white Vidos. I'm glad she really liked them. Maybe when I reduce my stuff down I might give the old man some Monks!


----------



## captione (Feb 29, 2020)

Spoiler










Got my Monk Lites. First impression is BRIGHT. Not bright as hell but the treble is lifted. Oddball sound signature. I like it more than the Monks's pretty balanced but dull mids, although that dry mid part still retained in the overall signature. Bass is nothing special honestly, a sprinkle of sub bass and good punch but that's it.


----------



## cradle emperor (Feb 29, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> Of course I can
> 
> 
> 
> A typical spec will probably lists Maria as 10 ohm @ 1kHz, but as with multi-driver IEM, the impedance curve is not a straight line but a curved one, going from around 16ohm @ 20Hz and drop to 10ohm @ 10kHz. This means 2 things: First, you want your source's output impedance to be very low, ideally under 1 ohm so it won't affect Maria's FR curve. Secondly, you want your source to have decent output current as low impedance load like Maria needs more current to sound good.



How much is considered a decent output current? would 45mA from VE odyssey dongle be insufficient? how about 100mA from the Fiio A3?


----------



## ClieOS

cradle emperor said:


> How much is considered a decent output current? would 45mA from VE odyssey dongle be insufficient? how about 100mA from the Fiio A3?



Very hard to pinpoint a number as it is not about having just a good max output but having high enough output that it can handle complex passage with good authority. 45mA is a good start, more is always better, but anything around or just under 100mA is fine. I'll say 10~20mA (or less) will probably not going to allow Maria to sound at its best.


----------



## Carrow

Hellooooo Earbuds Round-Up! Not been here in a bit. Do any of you have recommendations for a 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter cable/jack converter I can use with balanced buds? For reference, my balanced output is the Fiio X5III. Decent build and price if possible please? Thanks


----------



## furyossa

Carrow said:


> Hellooooo Earbuds Round-Up! Not been here in a bit. Do any of you have recommendations for a 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter cable/jack converter I can use with balanced buds? For reference, my balanced output is the Fiio X5III. Decent build and price if possible please? Thanks


These are the cheapest but with the good build quality
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32951711070.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32963900160.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000086176497.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33047266764.html

I own Fiio BL35 (3.5mm to 2.5mm) and is great adapter. Fiio BL44 is probably at the same level but it's a shame there is no BL25 model


----------



## Carrow

furyossa said:


> These are the cheapest but with the good build quality
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32951711070.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32963900160.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000086176497.html
> ...



Well the BL35 is essentially impossible to come by at the moment - my go-to shops like Penon, AMP3, even Ireland's official FiiO dealer Hifihut are all out, so I'll have a look at those! Thanks! (Though if anyone finds a BL35 in stock somewhere then please hit me up!)


----------



## furyossa (Mar 1, 2020)

Fiio BL is really good quality, I have been using it for over a year. In the meantime, I bought FDBRO 4core (the black one)
and Audiocrast 15cm (2nd link) and I'm satisfied with the quality.
I am currently interested in making slightly longer adapter cables 3.5mm to 2.5mm, 4.4mm to 2.5mm and 4.4mm to 3.5mm.
Does anyone have any schematics on how to solder wires between these plugs?


----------



## jogawag (Mar 3, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> I'll say they are right at the top of contender or even lower end of champion. BK on balanced can be stunningly good - but if it is single-ended, it is not that much better than the two.



Do the people who have original  docomo earbuds  (same as NiceHCK DIY PK2 black version 1) know that they are "HIFIMAN balanced" earbuds with which balanced sound sources can be listened to?

Mr. @ClieOS praised the balanced Shozy BK so much. So I purchased a 2.5mm Male to 3.5mm Female Balanced Convert Adapter and listened to docomo earbudswith a balanced sound source via that adapter.

Then, as if the night sky was clear, it sounded on a wide sound stage full of amazing vibrant stars!

I think Mr. @ClieOS has tried balanced docomo earbuds as well as balanced Shozy BK. Do you think there is a clear difference in sound quality between the balanced two?

[The Adapter is: Geekria Apollo 2.5mm Male to 3.5mm Female Balanced Convert Adapter: https://www.amazon.com//dp/B075FMX9T8?th=1]


----------



## thesheik137

jant71 said:


> Search gave nothing here but anything on the Shozy SG.
> 
> Penon only has a price, 32Ohm and 15.4mm driver that's it. Anybody heard it yet? Know it's signature?



Also very interested in the Shozy SG. Will anyone bite the bullet or should I do it myself lol.


----------



## 40760

thesheik137 said:


> Also very interested in the Shozy SG. Will anyone bite the bullet or should I do it myself lol.



As the owner of both the BK and Cygnus, I'd also very much love to know more about this new Shozy SG...


----------



## ClieOS

jogawag said:


> I think Mr. @ClieOS has tried balanced docomo earbuds as well as balanced Shozy BK. Do you think there is a clear difference in sound quality between the balanced two?
> 
> [The Adapter is: Geekria Apollo 2.5mm Male to 3.5mm Female Balanced Convert Adapter: https://www.amazon.com//dp/B075FMX9T8?th=1]



I won't say it is night and day, but I will say I do prefer BK balanced just a little more.



thesheik137 said:


> Also very interested in the Shozy SG. Will anyone bite the bullet or should I do it myself lol.



Already have, by taking Shozy's old customer offer, and probably will receive it in next few days.


----------



## jant71 (Mar 2, 2020)

thesheik137 said:


> Also very interested in the Shozy SG. Will anyone bite the bullet or should I do it myself lol.



Thought about it but bought the last in stock XB from Amazon. SG should be a higher model but that doesn't always mean better or the right type of sound(usually mean more neutral more of a brighter top end). XB sounded like something I wanted and Docomo shell is better for my ears only behind Senn MX880 housing. Fit takes even higher precedence since if they keeping popping out of my right ear I will sell them on.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Edgun


Spoiler



http://www.rholupat.com/indonesian-buds/edgun-no-1.html
http://www.rholupat.com/indonesian-buds/edgun-no-2.html


----------



## golov17

Fit without problem, but they have bright mid-high frequencies, I put on double thick foams.  Very indicative sound, not for everyone, but for Rose lovers, however, like and ATH-CM2000Ti


----------



## Yobster69

golov17 said:


> Fit without problem, but they have bright mid-high frequencies, I put on double thick foams.  Very indicative sound, not for everyone, but for Rose lovers, however, like and ATH-CM2000Ti


And how’s the bass? Can it be EQ’d like the Masya?
Thank you


----------



## hippotas

Does anyone know anything about this ve zen white edition ??
https://market.m.taobao.com/app/idl...ue&wx_navbar_transparent=true&id=611018707987


----------



## golov17

Yobster69 said:


> And how’s the bass? Can it be EQ’d like the Masya?
> Thank you


Mojito has a more pronounced bass quantitatively, in Maria the bass is low, but does not prevail at all


----------



## Infoseeker (Mar 6, 2020)

@ClieOS

I just received a Simphonio Dragon 2 plus but it was 3.5mm ended.

This seems to be a hidden refresh of Dragon 2. It has much more midbass and mids for other genres.

Not the airy treble reference transparent device that is the 2.5 balanced model.

The cable seems to use the exact cable in the Faaeal Datura Pro in this Dragon 2+ 3.5SE model.

D2+_3.5SE (left) Faaeal Datura Pro (right)


----------



## Lex11180

Hi Guys. I'm a long time lurker, but it's very hard to keep up coming in here every few months to read a few pages so I've decided to register and just ask about things and hope someone can help me. I'm a basshead (the sort that would have SPL setups in cars sort of basshead) and can only assume that I'm not going to get earphone rattling deep sub bass, but I'm curious to hear what is out there. For the record I listen to R&B, Hip Hop, New Jack Swing, DNB, Dubstep (older stuff not the Skrillex kind), Garage, Chillout, Dark Ambient and also kpop/jpop. I can't enjoy any of it without having a decent bass response as to me without it, it drains all of the character out of what I'm listening to, so I really like to look for stuff that has good bass, and would love to find something that has good sub bass that doesn't get drowned out by mids the second you turn it up slightly, or in the case with a couple of my headphones so far... start to rattle.

So far I've got a couple of VE Monks that I picked up a few years ago when I discovered that there were some companies out there making earbuds (I cannot stand IEMs, and don't like cans either) and thought they were great but lacked bottom end. I bought a couple of pairs of Vidos, one blue and one red. The blue one is disappointing, and the red one is better and probably the best super budget earbuds I've heard so far, but still don't think much of the bass. Since then I've got myself some RY4S Plus 32Ohm MMCX versions (blue ones, no idea what the colours signify on the RY4S Plus but would love to know) that I couple with either a 4 core silver cable or my KZ APTX HD bluetooth cable (the only way I've found so far to get earbuds in wireless form, I'd love to know if there are other options). These are the best I've had so far for bass, and sound nicer than the Vidos, but I still wonder if I can do better. Also if I'm at my computer I power my headphones off a Scarlet Solo, otherwise it's out of my Pocophone F1. I know nothing about portable amping options or if I want to dive into that. 

I'm wondering what else is out there, preferable in MMCX form already as I can use it with my existing cables. If there is a good pair that I could buy and attempt to recable them though I could be down with that if it's a fantastic pair of headphones, but it's not totally ideal. Maybe there's a full DIY option? I think I remember reading about a 15.4mm Titanium 64ohm driver from NSC Audio Store on Aliexpress. How would that compare to an RY4S and what would I have to build those into? Maybe buying a Fengru DIY and swapping the drivers out? I'm cool with doing something DIY if it gets me what I want. I don't really want to spend more than $20 max on a pair because I'm quite particular with what I like but can't put that into words or frequencies that I want as I don't understand how to quantify what I'm hearing above like 100hz (so reading frequency graphs goes over my head for the most part), so don't want to risk dropping money on something that I ultimately won't enjoy. I've done that too many times with headphones at this point so I'm just embracing this fun budget option

Thanks!


----------



## golov17

@Lex11180 just buy Smabat ST-10 mmcx


----------



## ClieOS

Infoseeker said:


> I just received a Simphonio Dragon 2 plus but it was 3.5mm ended



Never listened to the SWD2+ 3.5mm SE version before, but it is known to have a different sound than the normal 2.5mm BAL version.


----------



## Qualcheduno

golov17 said:


> @Lex11180 just buy Smabat ST-10 mmcx


@Lex11180  I have the Svara-L, which I enjoy a lot with artists like Carpenter Brut, Gesaffelstein, Perturbator, Danger etc. I've read somewhere in this topic that the Smabat is an improved Svara L with the same FR but better technicalities. So the Smabat gets my vote too


----------



## frogzx

Recently lost my last pair of earbuds, the Symphonized NRG 3.0, and not having any has been driving me crazy at work. Been looking into getting some wireless ones but am a bit overwhelmed by all of the options, what would you all recommend? Ideally want to spend around $100 or so, have been eyeing the Aukey T10 and Jabra 65t's but i've heard the latter are a bit outdated.


----------



## fonkepala

furyossa said:


> For example HEADROOM MS16 shell is quite reminiscent of HE150Pro but inside it looks like this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just to make sure I'm reading this right, are you saying that the MS16 sounds bad due to its shell design?



captione said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Is that the 40ohm version? If yes, you'd be much happier with the 120ohm Monk Lites. I know I am. The 40ohm ones, while being quite detailed with good soundstage, are a bit too bass-lean. If your dac/amp has a bass boost feature, it will enhance the lows quite nicely. I used a Fiio Q1 (Mark I) with my 40ohm Monk Lites and the bass boost turned on and found the sound sig to be fairly good. TL;DR get the 120ohm SPC Lites.



golov17 said:


> @Lex11180 just buy Smabat ST-10 mmcx



I'm pretty sure the OP said he's looking to spend not more than 20 bucks


----------



## furyossa

fonkepala said:


> Just to make sure I'm reading this right, are you saying that the MS16 sounds bad due to its shell design?


MS16 has chip driver and I didn't expect to sound good. I bought it to use this shell with other DIY drivers. DIY 400ohm graphene-coated driver is a very good sounding driver but in MS16 shell sounds congested.


----------



## assassin10000

Lex11180 said:


> Hi Guys. I'm a long time lurker, but it's very hard to keep up coming in here every few months to read a few pages so I've decided to register and just ask about things and hope someone can help me. I'm a basshead (the sort that would have SPL setups in cars sort of basshead) and can only assume that I'm not going to get earphone rattling deep sub bass, but I'm curious to hear what is out there. For the record I listen to R&B, Hip Hop, New Jack Swing, DNB, Dubstep (older stuff not the Skrillex kind), Garage, Chillout, Dark Ambient and also kpop/jpop. I can't enjoy any of it without having a decent bass response as to me without it, it drains all of the character out of what I'm listening to, so I really like to look for stuff that has good bass, and would love to find something that has good sub bass that doesn't get drowned out by mids the second you turn it up slightly, or in the case with a couple of my headphones so far... start to rattle.
> 
> So far I've got a couple of VE Monks that I picked up a few years ago when I discovered that there were some companies out there making earbuds (I cannot stand IEMs, and don't like cans either) and thought they were great but lacked bottom end. I bought a couple of pairs of Vidos, one blue and one red. The blue one is disappointing, and the red one is better and probably the best super budget earbuds I've heard so far, but still don't think much of the bass. Since then I've got myself some RY4S Plus 32Ohm MMCX versions (blue ones, no idea what the colours signify on the RY4S Plus but would love to know) that I couple with either a 4 core silver cable or my KZ APTX HD bluetooth cable (the only way I've found so far to get earbuds in wireless form, I'd love to know if there are other options). These are the best I've had so far for bass, and sound nicer than the Vidos, but I still wonder if I can do better. Also if I'm at my computer I power my headphones off a Scarlet Solo, otherwise it's out of my Pocophone F1. I know nothing about portable amping options or if I want to dive into that.
> 
> ...





golov17 said:


> @Lex11180 just buy Smabat ST-10 mmcx





Qualcheduno said:


> @Lex11180  I have the Svara-L, which I enjoy a lot with artists like Carpenter Brut, Gesaffelstein, Perturbator, Danger etc. I've read somewhere in this topic that the Smabat is an improved Svara L with the same FR but better technicalities. So the Smabat gets my vote too



Agreed, although its much higher than your budget I'd go for the Smabat ST-10. Good mids/highs and great bass. 

Here's a couple I saw FS on the forum too. Dunno if they're still available, they don't come up FS that often.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/smabat-st-10.924607/
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/smabat-st-10-like-new.924307/


There may be a willsound bud that would work too, but I've never heard them. You'd have to contact them on FB. About $35-45ish iirc.


Anyways, probably not going to find a bud with great bass in the $20 and below range. Definitely not with MMCX connectors.


----------



## Lex11180

I think right now I'm just not wanting to take a risk on something that expensive if I don't like it. Is there at least anything on the budget sub $20 end that's considered bassier and better than an RY4S Plus MMCX? As that's my reference point currently.


----------



## baskingshark

Lex11180 said:


> I think right now I'm just not wanting to take a risk on something that expensive if I don't like it. Is there at least anything on the budget sub $20 end that's considered bassier and better than an RY4S Plus MMCX? As that's my reference point currently.



Gonna be tough to find something sub $20 with detachable cables. U can consider the HE 150 Pro, its cables are not detachable though. HE 150 Pro is kinda V shaped with good midbass thump, definitely one of the bassier buds I've used. It actually sounds to me like an IEM rather than a conventional bud due to the tuning and bass.


----------



## Lex11180

baskingshark said:


> Gonna be tough to find something sub $20 with detachable cables. U can consider the HE 150 Pro, its cables are not detachable though. HE 150 Pro is kinda V shaped with good midbass thump, definitely one of the bassier buds I've used. It actually sounds to me like an IEM rather than a conventional bud due to the tuning and bass.



I'd be happy to jump to a wired set if it's a good pair. I could always recable them if it's a set I'm happy with. Is the HE150 Pro better than the regular one? I thought I read the HE 150 was bassier. I should also note that on my RY4S Plus, it's pretty much skirting what I'd consider to be comfortable levels of treble so anything I'm looking for would not be any brighter than those. From looking around on here I've read suggestions of the HE 150, SR2 16ohms TPE Red, NICEHCK B40 and potentially these 15.4mm Titanium 64ohm drivers? for budget bass ones. I'm wondering how they compare with the RY4S Plus MMCX in terms of bass/subbass and brightness.

Also does anyone know if the RY4S Plus MMCXs have different tuning depending on colour? I asked the seller but he just read and didn't give a reply. I might pick up another set just because of how cheap they are anyway on top of trying something else.


----------



## ClieOS

Edifier  LolliPod
MB Quart MB100
Shozy SG (小金)


----------



## mochill

ClieOS said:


> Edifier  LolliPod
> MB Quart MB100
> Shozy SG (小金)


How is sg


----------



## deyong

Infoseeker said:


> @ClieOS
> 
> I just received a Simphonio Dragon 2 plus but it was 3.5mm ended.
> 
> ...



which one sound sig do you prefer, swd2+ bal or se?... never listened to any simphonio buds myself, coz my ordered dragon 3 still on the way..


----------



## mochill

I have 2.5mm balanced


----------



## 40760

golov17 said:


> Fit without problem, but they have bright mid-high frequencies, I put on double thick foams.  Very indicative sound, not for everyone, but for Rose lovers, however, like and ATH-CM2000Ti



For ATH-CM2000Ti lovers? I think I'll have to look into this one...


----------



## 40760

ClieOS said:


> Edifier  LolliPod
> MB Quart MB100
> Shozy SG (小金)



Do you think the cables on the SG will oxidise quickly like the Cygnus?


----------



## Infoseeker (Mar 5, 2020)

deyong said:


> which one sound sig do you prefer, swd2+ bal or se?... never listened to any simphonio buds myself, coz my ordered dragon 3 still on the way..



The Simphonio Dragon 2 plus balanced version is a transparent critical listening style earbuds.

If your idea is you want your earbud to be your hifi solution, then the balanced version.

But I use my earbuds not for critical listening; for casual on the go use. So the bassier tones in the Single-ended version is more suited for rock music is better.  It still has treble highs, but they are smoother and more forgiving, but they also don't give that unique extremely airy hd800 outdoor speaker-like soundstage.


----------



## ClieOS

mochill said:


> How is sg



Overall, good. I'll describe it having a sound signature between Cygnus and BK - smoother and more laid back than Cygnus, but not as sweet as BK. It is more of an enduring sound rather than an impressive sound on first listening. I got it with a big discount for about the same price as Cygnus, which I think it is pretty good. For full price, I think it is a bit on the expensive side. The cable looks very good though, almost like the one on Cygnus Limit Edition, which is pure silver. 



palestofwhite said:


> Do you think the cables on the SG will oxidise quickly like the Cygnus?



This particular cable look almost like the pure silver cable used on Cygnus Limited Edition (normal Cygnus uses silver plated OFC, IIRC) and that cable never turns green. Of course it is merely by the look as Shozy didn't mention what materiel on this cable, so only time will tell whether it will turn green or not.


----------



## assassin10000 (Mar 6, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> Edifier  LolliPod
> MB Quart MB100
> Shozy SG (小金)



Neat. MB Quart now does an earbud. I first knew them from car audio (tho I know they started as headphones).

How do they sound?


----------



## 40760

ClieOS said:


> Overall, good. I'll describe it having a sound signature between Cygnus and BK - smoother and more laid back than Cygnus, but not as sweet as BK. It is more of an enduring sound rather than an impressive sound on first listening. I got it with a big discount for about the same price as Cygnus, which I think it is pretty good. For full price, I think it is a bit on the expensive side. The cable looks very good though, almost like the one on Cygnus Limit Edition, which is pure silver.



That's nice to hear. My BK that got replaced by Shozy doesn't sound quite as good (smooth) as the one that got sent back.

Can I also confirm with you that the length of the BK from earbud to Y-Split is shorter than that of the Cygnus? I find my BK's wires really short... Quite a bit shorter than the Cygnus which is at 1.2m. I'm not sure why...


----------



## ClieOS (Mar 6, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Neat. MB Quart now does an earbud. I first knew them from car audio (tho I know they started as headphones).
> 
> How do they sound?



Not too bad for the USD$58 asking price. My suspicious is that this is coming from MB Quart's Chinese sub-company rather than from MB Quart HQ, as you don't see any mentioning if you go to MB Quart homepage. Beyerdynamic did the same with their China only DP100. It could very well just a model released by OEM under some kind of partnership with minimum involvement from the actual brand.



palestofwhite said:


> That's nice to hear. My BK that got replaced by Shozy doesn't sound quite as good (smooth) as the one that got sent back.
> 
> Can I also confirm with you that the length of the BK from earbud to Y-Split is shorter than that of the Cygnus? I find my BK's wires really short... Quite a bit shorter than the Cygnus which is at 1.2m. I'm not sure why...



Shozy earbuds are mostly hand-built, so it won't be exactly the same length from one to another. Early BK uses a fairly rare OCC cable that Shozy was able to source on limited quantity, which subsequently ran out. Later BK uses a slightly different OCC that was indeed being said to be lesser sounding than the original BK.


----------



## 40760

ClieOS said:


> Shozy earbuds are mostly hand-built, so it won't be exactly the same length from one to another. Early BK uses a fairly rare OCC cable that Shozy was able to source on limited quantity, which subsequently ran out. Later BK uses a slightly different OCC that was indeed being said to be lesser sounding than the original BK.



I guess that is quite unfortunate for my case, but it can't be helped.

Now that I finally own a balanced DAC/Amp, I wish I had gone with the 2.5mm option to experience the benefits you've mentioned earlier.


----------



## furyossa

Lex11180 said:


> I'd be happy to jump to a wired set if it's a good pair. I could always recable them if it's a set I'm happy with. Is the HE150 Pro better than the regular one? I thought I read the HE 150 was bassier. I should also note that on my RY4S Plus, it's pretty much skirting what I'd consider to be comfortable levels of treble so anything I'm looking for would not be any brighter than those. From looking around on here I've read suggestions of the HE 150, SR2 16ohms TPE Red, NICEHCK B40 and potentially these 15.4mm Titanium 64ohm drivers? for budget bass ones. I'm wondering how they compare with the RY4S Plus MMCX in terms of bass/subbass and brightness.
> 
> Also does anyone know if the RY4S Plus MMCXs have different tuning depending on colour? I asked the seller but he just read and didn't give a reply. I might pick up another set just because of how cheap they are anyway on top of trying something else.


I have RY4S Plus MMCX (silver) and I don't think that has a different tuning from other colors. I use TRN balanced cable and I prefer this over HE150Pro. Also, U have a choice to use cooper cable if you want more bass and less treble. 
HE150Pro is not bassier but has better sub-bass then RY4S+, mid-bass is more pronounced with RY4S+, mids are similar and HE150Pro have rolled-off treble. For me, HE150 (MX500) produces better soundstage and detail than HE150Pro and RY4S+.
Titanium 64ohm loses in terms of clarity of sound over the previously mentioned models. Bass is boomier and bleeds over mid-tones.


----------



## Lex11180

furyossa said:


> I have RY4S Plus MMCX (silver) and I don't think that has a different tuning from other colors. I use TRN balanced cable and I prefer this over HE150Pro. Also, U have a choice to use cooper cable if you want more bass and less treble.
> HE150Pro is not bassier but has better sub-bass then RY4S+, mid-bass is more pronounced with RY4S+, mids are similar and HE150Pro have rolled-off treble. For me, HE150 (MX500) produces better soundstage and detail than HE150Pro and RY4S+.
> Titanium 64ohm loses in terms of clarity of sound over the previously mentioned models. Bass is boomier and bleeds over mid-tones.



I'm not sure I understand the correlation between silver plated and regular copper affecting how bassy or trebelled a sound would be. Is there a science to this?


----------



## GREQ

Lex11180 said:


> I'm not sure I understand the correlation between silver plated and regular copper affecting how bassy or trebelled a sound would be. Is there a science to this?


Something about electrons naturally repelling each other, so they tend to travel along the outer edge of a conduit/cable.
Silver is more conductive than copper, so the electrons receive less resistance when travelling along the silver plating, making them happier and brighter and I have no idea what I'm talking about.


----------



## Infoseeker

GREQ said:


> Something about electrons naturally repelling each other, so they tend to travel along the outer edge of a conduit/cable.
> Silver is more conductive than copper, so the electrons receive less resistance when travelling along the silver plating, making them happier and brighter and I have no idea what I'm talking about.



If this was a discord, I would give you appropriate reactions.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Also, made a unique video about EROS and Earbuds?! 

On a more serious note, there's a company called EROS Audio from Thailand, and they make Earbuds. They are not very pricey, about 50 USD a pair, and I made a video review about them. Be careful, I am a bit brutal on them, because to be honest I did not get good comfort, and well... I tried my best being honest...


----------



## cathee

Been out of the hobby for a while, what's the TOTL earbud scene looking like these a days?


----------



## golov17 (Mar 7, 2020)

cathee said:


> Been out of the hobby for a while, what's the TOTL earbud scene looking like these a days?


Maria?


----------



## cathee

golov17 said:


> Maria?



Rose earbuds are always a bit finicky to get a great fit for me and until someone can definitively prove to me that their product can last more than a year, I'm not particularly interested. Would probably prefer going for ZoomFreds or something


----------



## genck

cathee said:


> Rose earbuds are always a bit finicky to get a great fit for me and until someone can definitively prove to me that their product can last more than a year, I'm not particularly interested. Would probably prefer going for ZoomFreds or something


No one can prove that anything can last for a certain timeframe because everyone uses items differently, your post doesn't even make sense.


----------



## cathee

genck said:


> No one can prove that anything can last for a certain timeframe because everyone uses items differently, your post doesn't even make sense.



Yeah, probably came on a little strong there and full disclosure my last pair of Rose earbuds were late 2018 but I've had 5 pairs of their earbuds and they've all failed within the year for some reason or another. I'm willing to take responsibility for some of the wood Masya I used as daily drivers but I'm a pretty careful guy, and the Mojito (which I babied and only used with my home set up) just up and decided to un-glue itself (same thing happened to another pair of the Masya Pros). Zero CS.


----------



## genck

cathee said:


> Yeah, probably came on a little strong there and full disclosure my last pair of Rose earbuds were late 2018 but I've had 5 pairs of their earbuds and they've all failed within the year for some reason or another. I'm willing to take responsibility for some of the wood Masya I used as daily drivers but I'm a pretty careful guy, and the Mojito (which I babied and only used with my home set up) just up and decided to un-glue itself (same thing happened to another pair of the Masya Pros). Zero CS.


Well see there, that's a post with some content. I agree that there is some underlying issue if you had 5 pairs fail in a year, that is ridiculous assuming you're not yanking them, wadding them up, knotting them (you said you are careful with them so I doubt this). Sounds like legit crap.


----------



## cathee

genck said:


> Well see there, that's a post with some content. I agree that there is some underlying issue if you had 5 pairs fail in a year, that is ridiculous assuming you're not yanking them, wadding them up, knotting them (you said you are careful with them so I doubt this). Sounds like legit crap.



Yeah, always used the travel pouch/boxes. And they do sound really amazing, but I'm not really into their stuff anymore.


----------



## bahamot

cathee said:


> Been out of the hobby for a while, what's the TOTL earbud scene looking like these a days?


DQSM Turandot? Moondrop Chaconne?


----------



## golov17

cathee said:


> Rose earbuds are always a bit finicky to get a great fit for me and until someone can definitively prove to me that their product can last more than a year, I'm not particularly interested. Would probably prefer going for ZoomFreds or something


well, just buy a reserve pair, I do this quite often if I'm not sure about the quality or fearing that the release will be stopped ..


----------



## cathee

bahamot said:


> DQSM Turandot? Moondrop Chaconne?



I've tried the Liebeslieds but the weight and form factor didn't work for me. 

First I'm hearing of the DQSM Turandot - looks promising. Thank you for the suggestion, I'll definitely look into them. 



golov17 said:


> well, just buy a reserve pair, I do this quite often if I'm not sure about the quality or fearing that the release will be stopped ..



What is a reserve pair?


----------



## genck

cathee said:


> What is a reserve pair?


It means buying an extra pair/set. When they are unavailable in the future, you have an extra pair handy.


----------



## 40760

I wished I had that kind of money to get multiple units of my favorite equipment...  

I have been becoming more mindful these days on how I spend on audio products these days, and have set several rules before any purchase.


----------



## superuser1

Are there any preferred tips for the standard mx500 shells?


----------



## chinmie

palestofwhite said:


> I wished I had that kind of money to get multiple units of my favorite equipment...
> 
> I have been becoming more mindful these days on how I spend on audio products these days, and have set several rules before any purchase.



i used to think that way, buying several iems/earbuds as backups. but i found out that if i happen to get bored with it, i would have more pile of uneeded gears. now i just buy another one if the old unit breaks. and if it happens to be discontinued, they'll definitely other products that can substitute it


----------



## chinmie

cathee said:


> I've tried the Liebeslieds but the weight and form factor didn't work for me.
> 
> First I'm hearing of the DQSM Turandot - looks promising. Thank you for the suggestion, I'll definitely look into them.
> 
> ...



others might be better to clarify, but the Turandot is also all metal earbuds, so it may be heavy like the Liebesleid 

have you tried the Simphonio Dragons? i haven't heard the version 3, but the version 2 is great sounding earbuds.


----------



## 40760

chinmie said:


> others might be better to clarify, but the Turandot is also all metal earbuds, so it may be heavy like the Liebesleid
> 
> have you tried the Simphonio Dragons? i haven't heard the version 3, but the version 2 is great sounding earbuds.



I have to agree on the Simphonio Dragon 2+, as I thoroughly enjoyed when I had them. I'm interested in the Dragon 3 but was turned away by the exorbitant price tag.


----------



## mochill

I have ordered the shozy sg , fanboy of them


----------



## 40760

mochill said:


> I have ordered the shozy sg , fanboy of them


Looking forward to your impressions of them...


----------



## chinmie

revisiting old love in a new way. still sounds great even for today's standard and after buying and trying loads of earphones. and definitely cheaper than getting airpods


----------



## cathee

genck said:


> It means buying an extra pair/set. When they are unavailable in the future, you have an extra pair handy.



Thank you for the explanation  I'm a dummy



golov17 said:


> well, just buy a reserve pair, I do this quite often if I'm not sure about the quality or fearing that the release will be stopped ..



I don't mean to be disrespectful but now that I know what a "reserve pair" is, this is kind of a ridiculous comment. 

I have no faith in Rose products so your suggestion is to buy two pairs? LM(f)AO - that's a big no thank you from me. 



chinmie said:


> others might be better to clarify, but the Turandot is also all metal earbuds, so it may be heavy like the Liebesleid
> 
> have you tried the Simphonio Dragons? i haven't heard the version 3, but the version 2 is great sounding earbuds.



The problem with the Liebesleid for me was a combination of the weight and geometry. My ear play better with the PK1 style shells, but the standard shells are definitely the best for me. But thank you for the reminder.

I'm probably not up-to-date with the Simphonios but I have heard them before, I'll def look into v3.


----------



## Lex11180

chinmie said:


> revisiting old love in a new way. still sounds great even for today's standard and after buying and trying loads of earphones. and definitely cheaper than getting airpods


can't imagine this one working with an mx500 shell.


----------



## rkw

chinmie said:


> others might be better to clarify, but the Turandot is also all metal earbuds, so it may be heavy like the Liebesleid


The metal PK shells of Turandot are certainly heavier than plastic PK, but I wouldn't describe it as a "heavy" earbud. Very comfortable for me.


----------



## Bitsir

I'm looking for a great, high-end Earbud with maximum stage capabilities and ability to connect to a 2.5mm balanced DAC. 

If it doesn't exist, please give me a list of your top 5 or top 3 Earbuds $200-350.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Could you help me identify the logo/name/brand/diy of the earbud?


----------



## fonkepala

golov17 said:


> well, just buy a reserve pair, I do this quite often if I'm not sure about the quality or fearing that the release will be stopped ..



This suggestion is more valid when the item in question is cheap and/or reasonably priced. For something like what the OP is referring to, in addition to all the alleged QC problems he's been suffering through, this suggestion then becomes outright ridiculous.



cathee said:


> I don't mean to be disrespectful but now that I know what a "reserve pair" is, this is kind of a ridiculous comment.
> 
> I have no faith in Rose products so your suggestion is to buy two pairs? LM(f)AO - that's a big no thank you from me.



+1


----------



## SiggyFraud

Alex.Grimm said:


> Could you help me identify the logo/name/brand/diy of the earbud?


I might be wrong, bu the company seems to be Pentagram. I used to have their BT adapter with the exact same logo.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Mar 8, 2020)

SiggyFraud said:


> I used to have their BT adapter with the exact same logo.


Thanks, you very help me


----------



## chinmie

rkw said:


> The metal PK shells of Turandot are certainly heavier than plastic PK, but I wouldn't describe it as a "heavy" earbud. Very comfortable for me.



do you know what metal the Turandot made of? i personally think even the Liebesleid and that old K's Poseidon to be comfortable to wear. even though they have a bit of heft to them, as long as it's snug in the ears the weight won't be a problem. I'm guessing the Turandot would also be comfortable in my ears


----------



## golov17

I didn’t want to offend anyone, this is my life experience: 4 pcs of Zen1.0, and 2 pcs of Zen2.0, Mojito, Masya, Kinera, AKG K317, K319, beta Asura, Asura2.0, ATH-CM7,700, SWD2 +, Yuins  etc.  Unfortunately, nothing lasts forever under the moon, and if I like their sound, then I am ready to pay for reserve pairs of my favorite earbuds.  At least for me it works this way.


----------



## cathee

chinmie said:


> do you know what metal the Turandot made of? i personally think even the Liebesleid and that old K's Poseidon to be comfortable to wear. even though they have a bit of heft to them, as long as it's snug in the ears the weight won't be a problem. I'm guessing the Turandot would also be comfortable in my ears



Not a lot of information out there in English. I just did a little researching and the only real in-depth stuff have been in Thai(?) or something.



golov17 said:


> I didn’t want to offend anyone, this is my life experience: 4 pcs of Zen1.0, and 2 pcs of Zen2.0, Mojito, Masya, Kinera, AKG K317, K319, beta Asura, Asura2.0, ATH-CM7,700, SWD2 +, Yuins  etc.  *Unfortunately, nothing lasts forever under the moon*, and if I like their sound, then I am ready to pay for reserve pairs of my favorite earbuds.  At least for me it works this way.



Nah, I understood you were coming from a good place and meant to be helpful.

And in theory I do agree with your principle but there's a big difference between regular wear & tear and a $250 product that is not up to QC with little to none CS. Both my Mojitos - one was OG version and one was the *new* shell - both eventually unglued (though still functional to be fair) within the year and similar experiences with the wood Masya, cables frying, the 2-pin connectors breaking ("Maybe you shouldn't plug and unplug them so often" - thanks! That's why I bought removeable cables for!). 

With that said, I'm not gonna sit here and pretend like the Mojitos weren't a top 3 earbud I've ever heard, I'm just not in the habit of throwing money away like that anymore.


----------



## bahamot

chinmie said:


> others might be better to clarify, but the Turandot is also all metal earbuds, so it may be heavy like the Liebesleid
> 
> have you tried the Simphonio Dragons? i haven't heard the version 3, but the version 2 is great sounding earbuds.


I don't have any issue with turandot fitting. It might be a bit heavy but fit into my ears nicely without feeling it might be falling.


----------



## cathee

bahamot said:


> I don't have any issue with turandot fitting. It might be a bit heavy but fit into my ears nicely without feeling it might be falling.



Can I trouble you for some impressions? Not a lot of English literature out there on these earbuds yet.


----------



## captione

Should I go for the PT15 or am I just buying an MMCX'd MS16? lol
I heard they're both open back in design and has some similarities with the mids and (hopefully not) bass. Can anyone give a good synopsis on its sound signature?


----------



## chinmie

Lex11180 said:


> can't imagine this one working with an mx500 shell.



as a matter of fact, it can work with mx500 shell   

i have a couple of mmcx Willsound buds, and I've tried it with the BT20S. it can be quite comfortable, but might be a bit weird to see. also you can use this combo cable down style like regular earbuds, kinda like those Sony xperia ear duo fitting


----------



## rkw (Mar 9, 2020)

chinmie said:


> do you know what metal the Turandot made of?


On Amazon Japan (https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B082V3X5WH/), translated by Google:
_[Zinc-magnesium alloy housing, unique design] Surface vacuum plating, simple and classic design; ergonomic design provides comfortable wearing feeling, no problem for long time use_​It is exactly like the Yuin PK shell, but constructed in metal. If the PK shell fits you well, the Turandot will also.


----------



## jogawag (Mar 9, 2020)

I have buyed diy PK1 MMCX (150ohms red film), but since the bass sound was felt light, I replaced it with docomo earbuds driver by DIY.

As a result of this replacement, not only the sub-bass but also a brilliant treble was obtained.
I was excited and wanted to hear these balanced sounds, so I finally pushed the buy button for a 2.5mm balanced MMCX cable.
(Oh, I'm an idiot, I buyed already converteer of the 3.5mm HIFIMAN balance to the 2.5mm balance and listened the balanced sound of docomo earbuds, but wasted money ...)

Before replace drivers:


After replace drivers:


----------



## jogawag (Mar 9, 2020)

rkw said:


> On Amazon Japan (https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B082V3X5WH/), translated by Google:
> _[Zinc-magnesium alloy housing, unique design] Surface vacuum plating, simple and classic design; ergonomic design provides comfortable wearing feeling, no problem for long time use_​It is exactly like the Yuin PK shell, but constructed in metal. If the PK shell fits you well, the Turandot will also.



I have tried to listen to DQSM Turandot before.
There is no problem with sound quality or PK (docomo) shell design, but the shell is too heavy for me. So I don't even think I could take them with me for a walk, and I felt I needed a silicone ear pad that wouldn't slip off even when sitting indoors and listening.
They have the same problem for me like this as Moondrop Liebesleid which I already sold.


----------



## furyossa (Mar 9, 2020)

jogawag said:


> I have buyed diy PK1 MMCX (150ohms red film), but since the bass sound was felt light, I replaced it with docomo earbuds driver by DIY.
> 
> As a result of this replacement, not only the sub-bass but also a brilliant treble was obtained.
> I was excited and wanted to hear these balanced sounds, so I finally pushed the buy button for a 2.5mm balanced MMCX cable.
> ...


I tried PK1 MMCX (150ohms red film) with PK shell, after that with this metalic shell + MMCX + balanced cable and nothing.
I was not at all pleased with the sound. I ended up buying  DOCOMO shells and Furukawa silver plated wire and I brought them back to life.
The cable is a little stiff but who cares when it contributes to the sound improvement. BTW... You can try with any silver cable


----------



## jogawag (Mar 9, 2020)

furyossa said:


> I tried PK1 MMCX (150ohms red film) with PK shell, after that with this metalic shell + MMCX + balanced cable and nothing.
> I was not at all pleased with the sound. I ended up buying  DOCOMO shells and Furukawa silver plated wire and I brought them back to life.
> The cable is a little stiff but who cares when it contributes to the sound improvement. BTW... You can try with any silver cable



I think your PK1 driver (150 ohms red film) had its bass boosted by the Variant DOCOMO shell and its treble improved by the Furukawa silver plated wire to give a satisfactory sound.

And I feel the treble of my docomo earbuds driver with MMCX copper cable is sufficient, so I don't need silver cable now...


----------



## furyossa (Mar 9, 2020)

jogawag said:


> I think your PK1 driver (150 ohms red film) had its bass boosted by the Variant DOCOMO shell and its treble improved by the Furukawa silver plated wire to give a satisfactory sound.
> 
> And I feel the treble of my docomo earbuds driver with MMCX copper cable is sufficient, so I don't need silver cable now...


Exactly. Before I used Furukawa wire with PK1 "red", the sound is not so clean and PK2 that comes in DOCOMO shell, in my opinion, it had a slightly better sound presentation.
But with silver cable, PK1 sound is more balanced, cleaner and relaxing then PK2 in the same shell. Still, the price difference is huge but this price does not justify that much better sound of PK1.
Both are interesting in their own way: PK2 - more energetic  and PK1 "RED" - more refined .


----------



## golov17

https://h5.m.taobao.com/awp/core/detail.htm?id=612757967340&hybrid=true&toSite=main


----------



## Vannak

ClieOS said:


> PH-10 is a very well made earbud, consider that it only costs $10. It just lacks a bit of airiness and detail to make it to the next level.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...


Hello sir
I already have smabat st 10 and I want to know is yincrow a good compliment along my smabat 
Can you give me your impressions of the yincrow 
Thanks in advance


----------



## jrazmar

cathee said:


> Can I trouble you for some impressions? Not a lot of English literature out there on these earbuds yet.



http://blog.livedoor.jp/headphone_metal/archives/52423023.html

This is originally in Japanese language but you can use Google translate to convert. This has helped me decide to get the Liebesleid before and now the Turandot. It's still on its way to me so cannot give any impression for now.


----------



## ClieOS

Vannak said:


> Hello sir
> I already have smabat st 10 and I want to know is yincrow a good compliment along my smabat
> Can you give me your impressions of the yincrow
> Thanks in advance



Next time, just use @ClieOS and don't quote whole post as that has a lot of pictures in it.

If you are referring to RW-1000 - I'll probably describe it as a warmer, slightly more V-shaped sounding version of ST-10. It can be somewhat of a compliment of ST-10 but it isn't an exact opposite sound signature wise. My idea of a compliment goes closer to having an opposing sound signature, which means a more vocal-centric sound.


----------



## captione

Does the shell material affect the overall sound of an earbud? I'm transferring an earbud driver to save something from it.


----------



## Vannak

ClieOS said:


> Next time, just use @ClieOS and don't quote whole post as that has a lot of pictures in it.
> 
> If you are referring to RW-1000 - I'll probably describe it as a warmer, slightly more V-shaped sounding version of ST-10. It can be somewhat of a compliment of ST-10 but it isn't an exact opposite sound signature wise. My idea of a compliment goes closer to having an opposing sound signature, which means a more vocal-centric sound.


OH sorry I am new
And thank you for your advice and comments


----------



## baskingshark

captione said:


> Does the shell material affect the overall sound of an earbud? I'm transferring an earbud driver to save something from it.



In all likelihood, yes, it will affect the sound and it probably won't sound the same as the original driver.

Driver placement, damper materials, nozzle length/diameter, shell shape/size and shell material all affect the sound and resonances to some extent.


----------



## captione

baskingshark said:


> In all likelihood, yes, it will affect the sound and it probably won't sound the same as the original driver.
> 
> Driver placement, damper materials, nozzle length/diameter, shell shape/size and shell material all affect the sound and resonances to some extent.


Just what I needed to hear, thanks! Also, is there any tutorials on how to safely remove glued up tight drivers from the shells, or just taking MX500 shelled earbuds apart?


----------



## furyossa

captione said:


> Just what I needed to hear, thanks! Also, is there any tutorials on how to safely remove glued up tight drivers from the shells, or just taking MX500 shelled earbuds apart?


There is a risk to damage the driver if the glue has spilled over the backside of the driver. You can try with a hairdryer to warm the shell in order to soften the glue a little but be careful not to overheat.


----------



## captione

furyossa said:


> There is a risk to damage the driver if the glue has spilled over the backside of the driver. You can try with a hairdryer to warm the shell in order to soften the glue a little but be careful not to overheat.


Thanks for the suggestion! I'll definitely try to be careful.


----------



## waynes world

golov17 said:


> 4 pcs of Zen1.0



Now _that_ I can definitely understand!


----------



## golov17

waynes world said:


> Now _that_ I can definitely understand!


yeah, love them


----------



## golov17

Simphonio SA-01 9.90usd


----------



## GREQ

golov17 said:


> Simphonio SA-01 9.90usd



After seeing your post I had to try re-creating this mod through quick 'n dirty means. 

I'm impressed. There is a marked difference in presentation and tonal personality.
Soundstage is immediately the biggest difference. It feels quite a bit bigger and treble is more airy. More space to breath.
Mid-bass is down, but sub-bass remains well extended and present.

In terms of tonal flavour, Vido goes from 'warm/bass-heavy' to 'mostly neutral with tasteful low-bass kick'.

I will certainly be trying this with my other buds, as it opens up A LOT of tuning possibilities - more than ever before with donuts and layering.

Really excellent... thanks for sharing!

(I have another stock Vido with regular full-foams to compare the modded one with directly)


----------



## captione

That pricing is questionable for something you can substitute by going to the hardware store and saving yourself some few bucks.


----------



## 40760

Maybe some Comply Soft Wraps might work too...


----------



## brianforever

GREQ said:


> After seeing your post I had to try re-creating this mod through quick 'n dirty means.
> 
> I'm impressed. There is a marked difference in presentation and tonal personality.
> Soundstage is immediately the biggest difference. It feels quite a bit bigger and treble is more airy. More space to breath.
> ...


Naise..I like what you did there (y)


----------



## golov17

give me the correct translation please..


Spoiler



佩戴这里要和大家推荐一下瑞弦最新推出的海绵胶封条，贴合不难，而且换脱的时候可以不留胶。关键这货简直是高频拯救者。可以说想听平头最佳高频 非这货莫属。因为有海绵封边，基本可以达到好低频还有好高频。这是中空棉无法比拟的。和一般中空棉高频差距可以达到2成。这里我用悟空，大圣 ，D3这三款的时候提升的比较明显。是一耳朵差距回不去那种差距。但我货量不多，所以这里测评所说的声音只有D3是用了这种封条的。特此说明。 其中悟空，大圣我都用了中空，阴阳师，夏空，maria全部用了实心绵。还有除了悟空和大圣我感觉加了胶圈变得不好听之外，另外的耳塞我全部加 胶圈，maria还用了加厚版那种，这样的获得的中低频是最好的。这里是要做说明。


----------



## GREQ

[QUOTE = "seizure after: 15509211 member; 525818"]
That pricing is questionable for something you can substitute by going to the hardware store and saving yourself some few bucks.
[/QUOTE]
In my experience, it's quite difficult to find the correct type of foam for use with acoustic applications in hardware stores, which typically only sell very rigid and thick foams.
I simply chopped up some spare headphone polyurethane.
But your point is still valid, as you can also source various headphone foams cheaply on the internet.


----------



## thesheik137

Quick question, if I found the Shozy BK uncomfortable due to having small ears, should I stay away from earbuds in general? Are there any earbuds of similar quality sound in smaller or more comfortable form factor?


----------



## captione

thesheik137 said:


> Quick question, if I found the Shozy BK uncomfortable due to having small ears, should I stay away from earbuds in general? Are there any earbuds of similar quality sound in smaller or more comfortable form factor?


Try the ones with the Monk Lite shell. Qian39 had the same shell too, idk about other ones too. 
There's also Yuin shells and alot of TOTL earbuds are using that kind of shell, although I haven't tried them yet, still in my buylist.


----------



## brianforever

golov17 said:


> give me the correct translation please..
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


here you go bro
When wearing this, I would like to recommend the latest sponge rubber seals introduced by Ruixian, which is not difficult to fit, and can be left without glue when changing. The point is that this product is simply a high-frequency rescue. It can be said that it's the best high frequency for flat head earbud. Because of the sponge banding, it can basically achieve good low frequency and good high frequency. This is incomparable with hollow cotton. And the general high frequency gap between hollow cotton can reach 20%. Here I use Goku, Dasheng and D3 to improve significantly. It is an ear gap that cannot be returned. But I don’t have a lot of goods, so only the D3 used in the evaluation here uses this seal. Hereby explain. Among them, Goku and Dasheng used hollow, Yin Yang, Xia Kong, and Maria all used solid cotton. In addition to Goku and Dasheng, I felt that adding a cover became unpleasant, and I added all the other earplugs to the covers. Maria also used a thicker version, so the obtained mid-low frequency is the best. .


----------



## golov17 (Mar 12, 2020)

When wearing this, I would like to recommend the latest sponge rubber seals introduced by Ruixian. it  is not difficult to fit, and no glue when changing.

this product is simply a high-frequency rescuer. It can be said that it is the best choice for high frequency .

Because of the sponge banding, it can bring us good low frequency and good high frequency.
It is much better than  hollow cotton. 20% better.  

Here I use Goku, Dasheng, and D3 earphone

Since i don't have much of this sponge, so i only try it with D3, sound is improved significantly.

  I use Goku, Dasheng with  hollow cotton. 

For Yin Yang, Xia Kong, and Maria I  all used solid cotton.

Goku and Dasheng sound not good with rubber ring.  i add rubber rings all on other earphones all, and Maria i i add the thicker rubber ring. And this bring us the best bass and mids.

Thanks @Candice.song


----------



## wskl

thesheik137 said:


> Quick question, if I found the Shozy BK uncomfortable due to having small ears, should I stay away from earbuds in general? Are there any earbuds of similar quality sound in smaller or more comfortable form factor?



In addition to the Monk Lite already mentioned, the NiceHCK EB2 and K's LBB should be a good fit for small ears.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

thesheik137 said:


> Quick question, if I found the Shozy BK uncomfortable due to having small ears, should I stay away from earbuds in general? Are there any earbuds of similar quality sound in smaller or more comfortable form factor?



Smabat M1 Pro?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

captione said:


> There's also Yuin shells and alot of TOTL earbuds are using that kind of shell, although I haven't tried them yet, still in my buylist.


Shozy BK use the same docomo new shells as Yuin


----------



## daid1

golov17 said:


> When wearing this, I would like to recommend the latest sponge rubber seals introduced by Ruixian. it  is not difficult to fit, and no glue when changing.
> 
> this product is simply a high-frequency rescuer. It can be said that it is the best choice for high frequency .
> 
> ...



can I ask, they are

Goku=Sun Dice
Dasheng=Sun copper
D3= Simphonio Dragon 3
Maria=Rose Maria
Xia Kong=Moondrop Chaconne
Yin Yang=K's Earphone Bell Ti

Am I right?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

daid1 said:


> Yin Yang


I know Kanzenoka Yin Yang earbuds


----------



## daid1

Alex.Grimm said:


> I know Kanzenoka Yin Yang earbuds



no no he was referring on a review about top tier earbuds in chinese, the reviewer used alter egos name to call that buds, and I was struggling to understand which was which


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Kanzenoka  Me-Q Finesto and Yucanda Carbonara ready soon at Rholupat


Spoiler


----------



## captione

After messing alot of EQ settings, I finally found some really optimal adjustments for my transparent Snow Lotus 1.0


Spoiler









I finally fixed the hollow and dry sounding mids by reducing dBs from 200 to 500hz, added some air and sparkle at the treble and tweaking some bass to texture it up. I've heard reports of the Transparent 1.0 to have some tin-cannish sound. This finally fixes it for me. Bass is finally textured, bass guitars sound decent. The driver is really capable of amazing dynamics especially with instrumental rock such as Yowie:


Spoiler: to shorten the paragraph 







I'm still trying to tweak some things in the EQ and trying some other genres, I'll probably keep this updated at some point in the future. I hope this is helpful to some transparent SL1.0 owners lol


----------



## Alex.Grimm

captione said:


> I'm still trying to tweak some things in the EQ and trying some other genres, I'll probably keep this updated at some point in the future. I hope this is helpful to some transparent SL1.0 owners lol



I just took and sold my Snow Lotus 1.0 Plus. I bought better earbuds instead.


----------



## captione

Alex.Grimm said:


> I just took and sold my Snow Lotus 1.0 Plus. I bought better earbuds instead.


Honestly though, the Plus is so goood. All rounded clarity throughout. Probably one of my favourites in the bunch.


----------



## brianforever

Alex.Grimm said:


> I just took and sold my Snow Lotus 1.0 Plus. I bought better earbuds instead.


Why ? ..The Snow lotus has so much potential, it just needs some time to grow on you


----------



## Alex.Grimm

brianforever said:


> Why ? ..The Snow lotus has so much potential, it just needs some time to grow on you


Look at my signature, Snow lotus cannot compete with the experience that I have. Maybe it has the potential for modding, but in stock it is so-so.


----------



## Vannak

Alex.Grimm said:


> Look at my signature, Snow lotus cannot compete with the experience that I have. Maybe it has the potential for modding, but in stock it is so-so.


I am newbie 
And would like to ask you how we can mod the earbuds?


----------



## brianforever

Alex.Grimm said:


> Look at my signature, Snow lotus cannot compete with the experience that I have. Maybe it has the potential for modding, but in stock it is so-so.


hahah I understand, to each their own preferences then


----------



## mbwilson111

Alex.Grimm said:


> Look at my signature, Snow lotus cannot compete with the experience that I have. Maybe it has the potential for modding, but in stock it is so-so.



If people would make the font *bold* I would be able to actually read it.  I don't know why they have made the signatures so hard to read.  I do think they expect us to put our list of gear in our profiles... that is why there is a section for that.  I am not just directing this at you... just a general issue that I have been experiencing   

You do have your gear listed in your profile which of course is very easy to read and is the better way for people ot actually see it.  Unfortunately, since the software change. clicking on someones profile does not take us directly to the profile information which includes the gear lists.  We have to click on the "about" tab.  Another thing we should probably mention to the team.

Also, on the profile page I notice that the signature is at the bottom in a much more readable font.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

mbwilson111 said:


> If people would make the font *bold* I would be able to actually read it...


This is a problem of the new design and the font color of the signature, I added a button to the signature


----------



## DBaldock9

Alex.Grimm said:


> Look at my signature, Snow lotus cannot compete with the experience that I have. Maybe it has the potential for modding, but in stock it is so-so.



Just a reminder - if you are accessing the "mobile website", signatures are no longer displayed. You have to switch to the "Desktop" version to see that, and users Stats.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

New Foams soon.....
Ultra thin foams with holes lol.


Spoiler


----------



## mochill




----------



## 40760

Anywhere I can find reviews or impressions of the VE Sun Dice or Copper?


----------



## jogawag (Mar 14, 2020)

Alex.Grimm said:


> New Foams soon.....
> Ultra thin foams with holes lol.
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Do you know when "soon" is?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

jogawag said:


> Do you know when "soon" is?



“The promised three years are waiting, and in the fourth year forget... "


----------



## 40760

Very likely be getting the Sun Copper bundle during their next restock... About more than 2 years since I traded back my Zen Black...


----------



## thesheik137

Got my Smabat M1 Pro thanks to this threads recommendation and another head-fiers used listing, so thanks a lot. So far I'm enjoying the sound as they are quite balanced and refined and the fit seems to be working for me. I will continue listening before providing more impression, but for the price it seems hard to beat.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Sony MDR E-838 Vintage


Spoiler



http://www.rholupat.com/indonesian-buds/sony-mdr-e-838-vintage.html


----------



## oneula

palestofwhite said:


> Anywhere I can find reviews or impressions of the VE Sun Dice or Copper?


check his facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/52vecn/


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Yesterday I received *Edgun*. This is the same *EarC* earbud, only in other colors made for collaboration with Rholupat


Spoiler


----------



## tuanchelseaf4

Hi all 

After long time experience shozy bk and then willsound mk32.i just want to make a change.they both sound good impact bass but im not totally satisfaction.i pefer to listen metal.i know maybe its difficult for earbud.i just look at rose mojito,dragon 2+,3.highly appriceate if anyone share experience about them or other alternative option.


----------



## jant71

tuanchelseaf4 said:


> Hi all
> 
> After long time experience shozy bk and then willsound mk32.i just want to make a change.they both sound good impact bass but im not totally satisfaction.i pefer to listen metal.i know maybe its difficult for earbud.i just look at rose mojito,dragon 2+,3.highly appriceate if anyone share experience about them or other alternative option.



Might be helpful if you say what is lacking in the bass for you. "sound good impact bass" but what isn't good enough that you are looking for?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Shozy SG


Spoiler



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000748618748.html


----------



## jant71

Alex.Grimm said:


> Shozy SG
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



Already spoiled  I asked about it when it popped up a while back on Penon and in the time since ClieOS has gotten hold of one and posted about it. 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3147#post-15500116


----------



## tuanchelseaf4

jant71 said:


> Might be helpful if you say what is lacking in the bass for you. "sound good impact bass" but what isn't good enough that you are looking for?
> [/QUOTE
> Both have good bass, punchy, quantity enough sub bass,but i think i need more bass speed.beside i need more detail and instruments seperation.would you know the best choice for metal ?


----------



## tuanchelseaf4

jant71 said:


> Might be helpful if you say what is lacking in the bass for you. "sound good impact bass" but what isn't good enough that you are looking for?


Both of them have good bass,punchy,quantity enough sub bass but i think i need more bass speed along with detail and instruments separation.


----------



## DrKemikaru

Somebody have listened _****_ earbuds? I can't find any good information about sound of _PT15_,_ PT25_, _KP120_ and _KP220_.
How they in comparison with _Vido_, _VE Monk_, _FAAEAL_ and others?


----------



## jant71

tuanchelseaf4 said:


> Both of them have good bass,punchy,quantity enough sub bass but i think i need more bass speed along with detail and instruments separation.



You might also want to mention your sources since that plays a part. If you go up and get some of your requests you may lose some sub or even quantity/punch since many of the higher end buds go more towards neutral and may rely on more some power to get bass reach and quantity.

So, if someone just gives you a bud suggestion and they don't take source into consideration then you may not hear the same thing if they power it differently than you.  

Have you experimented as well. No foams/different thickness foam, adding some impedance will speed and tighten bass but you don't want to go to much or it can slow and lessen the amount of bass. You may get some suggestions but unlikely no perfect matches so you most likely will still have to test and tweak.


----------



## tuanchelseaf4

jant71 said:


> You might also want to mention your sources since that plays a part. If you go up and get some of your requests you may lose some sub or even quantity/punch since many of the higher end buds go more towards neutral and may rely on more some power to get bass reach and quantity.
> 
> So, if someone just gives you a bud suggestion and they don't take source into consideration then you may not hear the same thing if they power it differently than you.
> 
> Have you experimented as well. No foams/different thickness foam, adding some impedance will speed and tighten bass but you don't want to go to much or it can slow and lessen the amount of bass. You may get some suggestions but unlikely no perfect matches so you most likely will still have to test and tweak.


Thank alot for your advice.I pair it with my dap dx150.that is my feel about these two earbud.maybe not totally correct.it woul be simple if you give me name of earbud suit for metal.that is my goal.dont concern about two earbud i mention.my budget around 200$ for 2nd


----------



## assassin10000

tuanchelseaf4 said:


> Hi all
> 
> After long time experience shozy bk and then willsound mk32.i just want to make a change.they both sound good impact bass but im not totally satisfaction.i pefer to listen metal.i know maybe its difficult for earbud.i just look at rose mojito,dragon 2+,3.highly appriceate if anyone share experience about them or other alternative option.





tuanchelseaf4 said:


> Both of them have good bass,punchy,quantity enough sub bass but i think i need more bass speed along with detail and instruments separation.





tuanchelseaf4 said:


> Thank alot for your advice.I pair it with my dap dx150.that is my feel about these two earbud.maybe not totally correct.it woul be simple if you give me name of earbud suit for metal.that is my goal.dont concern about two earbud i mention.my budget around 200$ for 2nd



If you don't mind a slightly more neutral mid-range and treble with a sub-bass emphasis (L-shaped signature) maybe the ST-10 would work?




DrKemikaru said:


> Somebody have listened earbuds? I can't find any good information about sound of _PT15_,_ PT25_, _KP120_ and _KP220_.
> How they in comparison with _Vido_, _VE Monk_, _FAAEAL_ and others?



I've had the PT15 and PT25. Better than my Vido. 

I haven't had any Monk or Faael buds.


----------



## tuanchelseaf4

assassin10000 said:


> If you don't mind a slightly more neutral mid-range and treble with a sub-bass emphasis (L-shaped signature) maybe the ST-10 would work?
> 
> I never heard it.do you mean smabat.and how about rose mojito.many praise about detail and sound stage


----------



## snip3r77

Need recommendation for something that is good for music( all rounder sound ) + mic ( need to use for zoom )
Nothing too expensive. Sub $20 if possible. Thanks


----------



## DrKemikaru

assassin10000 said:


> I've had the PT15 and PT25. Better than my Vido.



How you could characterize them? What about LF and HF? They have 5-7 kHZ spikes?


----------



## beanxinh

The 10th Anniversary of Aliexpress is comming and I want to buy a new earbud to listen to various genres from pop to classical. I have zone down to DQSM Turandot and K's Ling Brass 2020 can anyone give me a brief comparison between them? And does the K's Bell-Ti worth the extra money (twice Turandot) i heard that they have good bass. Thanks.


----------



## jogawag (Mar 21, 2020)

DrKemikaru said:


> How you could characterize them? What about LF and HF? They have 5-7 kHZ spikes?



You can watch the FR graph of **** PT5 which was made by Mr. @antdroid  in this thread.


----------



## DrKemikaru

jogawag said:


> You can watch the FR graph of **** PT5 which was made by Mr. @antdroid in this thread.



Thanks, but I already saw it.
Also I heard that this earbuds are bright and have some broken glass 5-7 kHZ spikes, but some people claimed that earbuds a bit neutral and not so bright as other hear. This was is confusing for me. So I put PT15 buying off for later now, but I still need normal review on them, cos it's still attractive offer (interesting shell design and, of course, MMCX). Maybe these earbuds can prove themselves in certain specific genres?


----------



## assassin10000

DrKemikaru said:


> How you could characterize them? What about LF and HF? They have 5-7 kHZ spikes?



I don't recall any spikes. It's been months since I've had the PT15 and over a year for the PT25.

Going by my previous notes.
PT15 had a somewhat V-shaped signature.
PT25 was more balanced and neither cold nor warm sounding, but needed foams to have good bass response for me.

Neither was rolled off too badly in the lows or highs, or I would have mentioned it. Personally I liked the PT25 more.


----------



## captione (Mar 21, 2020)

snip3r77 said:


> Need recommendation for something that is good for music( all rounder sound ) + mic ( need to use for zoom )
> Nothing too expensive. Sub $20 if possible. Thanks


White Vidos? I used them for months while finishing up my fairly left-field music backlogs and some electronic and rock, they held up very well.

There's also Fengru Silver (DIY Tingo TC200) which are painfully underrated and I love the whole musicality of the sound signature.


----------



## rangachari

Hello all. I am selling my rig Chord Mojo + VE ZEN 2.0 + iPhone CCK for $450. Chord Mojo and VE ZEN 2.0 are 3 months old, iPhone CCK is 1 month old. If anyone interested, email me narayanan_rangachari at yahoo.com


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Amazing Indonesia 






Spoiler


----------



## DrKemikaru

snip3r77 said:


> Need recommendation for something that is good for music( all rounder sound ) + mic ( need to use for zoom )
> Nothing too expensive. Sub $20 if possible. Thanks



I don't have a big experience in earbud, but I think you should worth paying attention to earphones like a QianYun (25,39,69), oVErrated Monk, Diy earbuds like a EMX500 and similar, maybe FAAEAL, Seahf (large impedance),maybe **** (mmcx connectors), and, of course, Vido (classic of genre). 
If you want choose something not too expensive, but not disappointing in sound you should try Vido, Qian earbuds and VE Monk. All of them cheap, have mic and, at least, a not bad sound. 
P.s. NiceHCK B40 have shell like the Yuin PK's. Maybe it is more comfortable for ears, based on reviews


----------



## BrunoC

K's Little Black Bell + foam + donut + some tracks from 'Grimes' = Sound made in Heaven.


----------



## fraist

Alex.Grimm said:


> Amazing Indonesia


I've been eyeing for willsound for a couple of days and you just bought the whole series. Can't wait for your review.
Could you make a ranking system for the earbuds? I'm particularly interested in elibuds sabia v7, willsound mk150 and qlabs v3 comparisons


----------



## Alex.Grimm

fraist said:


> I've been eyeing for willsound for a couple of days and you just bought the whole series. Can't wait for your review.
> Could you make a ranking system for the earbuds? I'm particularly interested in elibuds sabia v7, willsound mk150 and qlabs v3 comparisons


I do not have MK150 . Qlabs 3 sounds brighter and more detailed then Sabia 7.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Mar 23, 2020)

SMABAT ST10s


Spoiler



https://a.aliexpress.com/_BUPvS7
https://a.aliexpress.com/_BSTB79


----------



## baskingshark

Alex.Grimm said:


> SMABAT ST10s
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



Thanks for the headsup.

The graph looks quite good, maybe except the slight subbass roll off.






Interestingly there is a "black gold" and "black silver" version, both have difference impedances and the "black gold" one is 1.5 times more expensive.


----------



## ClieOS (Mar 24, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for the headsup.
> 
> The graph looks quite good, maybe except the slight subbass roll off.
> 
> ...



Black gold is the limited edition ST-10s with high impedance drivers.

Also, ST-10s has not been official released yet. The planned release date is on April. This is a pre-sale.


----------



## baskingshark

ClieOS said:


> Black gold is the limited edition ST-10s with high impedance drivers.
> 
> Also, ST-10s has not been official released yet. The planned release date is on April. This is a pre-sale.



I'm not a physics/engineering expert, but in practice does the different impedances affect the sound quality in any way between say 2 cans/earbuds with similar designs, just different impedances? 

For me, it looks like the higher impedance stuff was sort of a relic of previous years, but now sources are getting more powerful and more portable. I always thought that if something has very high impedance, maybe it might draw less current from the amplifier, so possibly it doesn't stress the amp as hard, which can result in lower THD, crosstalk, etc. But please correct me if I'm mistaken, TIA!!


----------



## alvinlim2010

I gotten the Moondrop Liebesleid not long ago and I must say I am impressed! Good soundstage and clarity. Definitely not a bassy set though


----------



## ClieOS

baskingshark said:


> I'm not a physics/engineering expert, but in practice does the different impedances affect the sound quality in any way between say 2 cans/earbuds with similar designs, just different impedances?
> 
> For me, it looks like the higher impedance stuff was sort of a relic of previous years, but now sources are getting more powerful and more portable. I always thought that if something has very high impedance, maybe it might draw less current from the amplifier, so possibly it doesn't stress the amp as hard, which can result in lower THD, crosstalk, etc. But please correct me if I'm mistaken, TIA!!



First, have a read on this: https://www.innerfidelity.com/conte...-dt-880-250-ohm-and-dt-880-600-ohm-headphones

In short - if driving power is not an issue while everything else is equal, a higher impedance driver generally will be better in performance. Of course, we need to consider many other factors in real life that sometimes a lower impedance driver just works out better in practice.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

JCALLY JC10


Spoiler



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000394640701.html


----------



## baskingshark

Alex.Grimm said:


> JCALLY JC10
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



Looks nice. On their AE webpage, they call this earbud "classic female poison earplugs".

According to some CHIFI tuners i spoke to like Kopiokaya, the Chinese domestic market likes boosted upper mids/lower treble, cause a lot of their music incorporates female vocals. They use the term "musical poison" 毒音 as such to describe this boosted area.

Westerners may find this fatiguing (I'm one of those), but i guess it also depends on your music genres and hearing health and preferred sound signatures.


----------



## superuser1

baskingshark said:


> Looks nice. On their AE webpage, they call this earbud "classic female poison earplugs".
> 
> According to some CHIFI tuners i spoke to like Kopiokaya, the Chinese domestic market likes boosted upper mids/lower treble, cause a lot of their music incorporates female vocals. They use the term "musical poison" 毒音 as such to describe this boosted area.
> 
> Westerners may find this fatiguing (I'm one of those), but i guess it also depends on your music genres and hearing health and preferred sound signatures.


Biological diaphragm???!!!


----------



## baskingshark

superuser1 said:


> Biological diaphragm???!!!



LOL I think it is some bio cellulose material or something lost in translation.


----------



## brianforever

superuser1 said:


> Biological diaphragm???!!!


----------



## mochill

Shozy sg sound so good


----------



## deyong

Simphonio Dragon 3


----------



## golov17

How did you get them?  mine has been at Hong Kong post since March 3 without traffic


----------



## baskingshark

Do they sell a detachable cable version of the Simphonio Dragon 3?

I've read good stuff about the sound quality, but I'd be a bit hesistant to spend so much on a non detachable set as the cable is usually the first point of failure. Had 2 previous non detachable IEMs die on me at the cable, so I'm a bit wary nowadays.


----------



## 40760

baskingshark said:


> Do they sell a detachable cable version of the Simphonio Dragon 3?
> 
> I've read good stuff about the sound quality, but I'd be a bit hesistant to spend so much on a non detachable set as the cable is usually the first point of failure. Had 2 previous non detachable IEMs die on me at the cable, so I'm a bit wary nowadays.



Don't think so, as the cable should make up much of the tuning for these...


----------



## mochill

I want the dragon 3 , description says bass . I need bass


----------



## FastAndClean

superuser1 said:


> Biological diaphragm???!!!


----------



## ClieOS

Yincrow RW-1000 Bass
HZSound Cymbals
Ocean Pearl OP-139


----------



## rkw

mochill said:


> I want the dragon 3 , description says bass . I need bass


I'm skeptical, because it has a Yuin PK style shell.


----------



## jant71

rkw said:


> I'm skeptical, because it has a Yuin PK style shell.



You can't tell just by looking. It is not the housing as much as how it is vented and how the air flows. Earbuds with MX shells have from bassy to bass deficient signatures and can be the same for the Yuin style shell. I'd be more skeptical cause it is a Simphonio! 

@ClieOS, any chance of a RW-1000 Bass and Shozy XB comparison? Also maybe a thought on how good the cable is on the Yincrow. I am looking for a no memory wire MMCX and maybe I can get a solid cable and some good buds in one purchase.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

jant71 said:


> RW-1000 Bass


RW1000 lack of low
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=175259370572786&id=101362171295840


----------



## jant71

Alex.Grimm said:


> RW1000 lack of low
> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=175259370572786&id=101362171295840



Is that RW-1000 Bass or just the RW-1000? I have seen RW-1000. ClieOS has last years RW1000 in this post...
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3032#post-15259766
A few posts ago it is RW-1000BASS  so pretty sure it is a new Bass version.


----------



## groucho69

mochill said:


> I want the dragon 3 , description says bass . I need bass



Here ya go


----------



## jant71

groucho69 said:


> Here ya go



Umm, He said bass. Not bass. How can you not tell the difference?? 
In other news, no baseball on opening day but I was still tempted to grab my bat and head outside...


----------



## groucho69

jant71 said:


> Umm, He said bass. Not bass. How can you not tell the difference??
> In other news, no baseball on opening day but I was still tempted to grab my bat and head outside...



Bat kissing is how we got COVID 19


----------



## rkw

jant71 said:


> Earbuds with MX shells have from bassy to bass deficient signatures and can be the same for the Yuin style shell.


Are there any bassy Yuin style earbuds? It seems that compared to other styles, the size/shape of Yuin shells makes it more difficult to achieve strong bass output.


----------



## jant71

Yes. this behavior...



...should be curtailed during the current situation.


----------



## jant71

rkw said:


> Are there any bassy Yuin style earbuds? It seems that compared to other styles, the size/shape of Yuin shells makes it more difficult to achieve strong bass output.



A few have had some bass. The magnets, the face of the bud(the arrangement of holes), the mesh/screening or foam dampening behind the face, the back vents etc. are all adjustable to give more bass if you want in most any housing. That most might not have a lot of bass is just due to the trend in tuning them more than they are not capable of it.


----------



## HungryPanda

groucho69 said:


> Bat kissing is how we got COVID 19


 not so....


----------



## ClieOS

jant71 said:


> ....
> @ClieOS, any chance of a RW-1000 Bass and Shozy XB comparison? Also maybe a thought on how good the cable is on the Yincrow. I am looking for a no memory wire MMCX and maybe I can get a solid cable and some good buds in one purchase.



Don't have a XB to compare to.

RW-1000 Bass is pretty much on the same level as the original RW-1000, but tuned slightly warmer. So technically they are almost equally good, but Bass has better sense of musicality - or should I say better suited for mainstream vocal music. RW-1000 on the other hand is more on the neutral side. Between the two, I'll probably go for the RW-1000 Bass myself. Cable is pretty solid. It is not the prettiest cable I have ever seen, but still well above average for a stock cable. 



jant71 said:


> Is that RW-1000 Bass or just the RW-1000? I have seen RW-1000. ClieOS has last years RW1000 in this post...
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3032#post-15259766
> A few posts ago it is RW-1000BASS  so pretty sure it is a new Bass version.



There is no official English name that I know of, but this new RW-1000 has an official Chinese name translates to 'RW-1000 Bass Enhanced Edition' - I just call it RW-1000 Bass for now.

So it definitely is a new model, and definitely not the same sounding as RW-1000.


----------



## jogawag (Mar 27, 2020)

rkw said:


> I'm skeptical, because it has a Yuin PK style shell.





rkw said:


> Are there any bassy Yuin style earbuds? It seems that compared to other styles, the size/shape of Yuin shells makes it more difficult to achieve strong bass output.



In the description of D3, "On the basis of D2 +, the D3 driver is upgraded to a new 15.8mm 4-layer composite diaphragm"、so D3 with Diaphragm of the same size as larger size than MX500's is more advantageous in bass than the original Yuin PK (Docomo) Style with Diaphragm of 14.8mm.

EDIT: "the same size as" => "larger size than"


----------



## golov17 (Mar 26, 2020)

jogawag said:


> In the description of D3, "On the basis of D2 +, the D3 driver is upgraded to a new 15.8mm 4-layer composite diaphragm"、so D3 with Diaphragm of the same size as MX500 is more advantageous in bass than the original Yuin PK (Docomo) Style with Diaphragm of 14.8mm.





the actual impedance is also incorrect, as is the diameter of the driver membrane


----------



## snip3r77

anything you guys aiming for the ali 10th anniversary sales?


----------



## Jsingh4

New Smabat st10s


----------



## golov17

#Aliexpress US $81.84  38%OFF | Smabat ST-10/ST-10S Ear Hook Flagship Earbud HIFI Metal Earphone 15.4mm Dynamic Driver With Detachable MMCX Cable ST10 ST10s M1
https://a.aliexpress.ru/_ePBt8B


----------



## baskingshark

golov17 said:


> #Aliexpress US $81.84  38%OFF | Smabat ST-10/ST-10S Ear Hook Flagship Earbud HIFI Metal Earphone 15.4mm Dynamic Driver With Detachable MMCX Cable ST10 ST10s M1
> https://a.aliexpress.ru/_ePBt8B



I spoke to some sellers today, they said the main difference between the original SMABAT ST10 and the new ST10S is that the longer labyrinth structure thing in the ST10S gives is a bass of lesser quantity than the original ST10.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Mar 27, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> I spoke to some sellers today, they said the main difference between the original SMABAT ST10 and the new ST10S is that the longer labyrinth structure thing in the ST10S gives is a bass of lesser quantity than the original ST10.


Smabat said lows performance is gonna be even better than the st10.

Second-generation ST-10S have the following characteristics than the ST-10: a longer maze-shaped structure, the bass is more flexible than before, the mid and treble are very clear, and the music is very comfortable; the sound field is larger, the instrument and the person Sound positioning is more accurate.


----------



## baskingshark

Alex.Grimm said:


> Smabat said lows performance is gonna be even better than the st10.
> 
> Second-generation ST-10S have the following characteristics than the ST-10: a longer maze-shaped structure, the bass is more flexible than before, the mid and treble are very clear, and the music is very comfortable; the sound field is larger, the instrument and the person Sound positioning is more accurate.



The seller told me the bass is of lesser quantity but better quality in the ST10S. Not sure how legit their info is as they are just sellers and not the actual tuners/manufacturers.

But the AE sellers are quite desperate for sales on AE. Most of the sellers there offered me a straight up 10% discount up front to buy it today (before coupons). I'm a bit hesistant to pull the trigger now as I'm a basshead and now I hear the bass quantity is less.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

baskingshark said:


> I'm a bit hesistant to pull the trigger now as I'm a basshead and now I hear the bass quantity is less.


stay to wait for reviews and summer sales


----------



## Yuuus (Mar 27, 2020)

And which ones are better than Snow Lotus and Yincrow w6 for up to $ 20?


----------



## golov17

baskingshark said:


> I spoke to... ST10S gives is a bass of lesser quantity than the original ST10.


we will check it


----------



## Yuuus

Alex.Grimm said:


> stay to wait for reviews and summer sales


And which ones are better than Snow Lotus and Yincrow w6 for up to $ 20?


----------



## baskingshark

Yuuus said:


> And which ones are better than Snow Lotus and Yincrow w6 for up to $ 20?



Check out the BK2. Pretty balanced set with good technicals. Has detachable MMCX cables too, hardly seen at that price point.
I saw it at $21 - 22 USD during the AE sale, maybe cheaper if u have coupons.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Mar 27, 2020)

Yuuus said:


> And which ones are better than Snow Lotus and Yincrow w6 for up to $ 20?


Which sound signature you like depends on, there are many options. Ry4s Plus MMCX not a bad option and TinGo TC200, Kube v1


----------



## Yuuus

Alex.Grimm said:


> Which sound signature you like depends on, there are many options. Ry4s Plus MMCX not a bad option and TinGo TC200, Kube v1


Dark, Warm, Deep Bass and Wide Space))


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Yuuus said:


> Dark, Warm, Deep Bass and Wide Space))



RY4S Black mmcx plus version $7.19 and good copper mmcx cable (not Silver plating)


Spoiler



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html


----------



## vygas

Hello everyone, I've been lurking around this thread for a long time and finally decided to make an account after purchasing a "couple" pairs of earbuds. I got the PK2 DIY Docomo from Chitty's Store recently and I can say that it is one of my favourite pairs in my collection so far . These and the SR2 DIY are my go-to pairs of earbuds. At least for now...


----------



## rkw

baskingshark said:


> But the AE sellers are quite desperate for sales on AE. Most of the sellers there offered me a straight up 10% discount up front to buy it today (before coupons).


They are not so desperate with only 10% discount. Wait a few weeks and see if they become truly desperate.


----------



## assassin10000

baskingshark said:


> I spoke to some sellers today, they said the main difference between the original SMABAT ST10 and the new ST10S is that the longer labyrinth structure thing in the ST10S gives is a bass of lesser quantity than the original ST10.





Alex.Grimm said:


> Smabat said lows performance is gonna be even better than the st10.
> 
> Second-generation ST-10S have the following characteristics than the ST-10: a longer maze-shaped structure, the bass is more flexible than before, the mid and treble are very clear, and the music is very comfortable; the sound field is larger, the instrument and the person Sound positioning is more accurate.





baskingshark said:


> The seller told me the bass is of lesser quantity but better quality in the ST10S. Not sure how legit their info is as they are just sellers and not the actual tuners/manufacturers.
> 
> But the AE sellers are quite desperate for sales on AE. Most of the sellers there offered me a straight up 10% discount up front to buy it today (before coupons). I'm a bit hesistant to pull the trigger now as I'm a basshead and now I hear the bass quantity is less.



Length changes the resonance peaks. Longer means the peak resonance points become lower in frequency. 
Longer = lower frequency (IE: more sub-bass)
Shorter = higher frequency (IE: more towards mid bass)

Plus maybe new diaphragm, voice coil, magnet and tuning. 

My guess is they've slightly shifted the peak of the bass response of the ST-10S towards or even  into sub-bass. Which would possibly be perceived as less 'bass' but more balanced. Given that audible sub-bass reproduction by earbuds is usually quite rolled off, due to lack of seal. I think when they mentioned 'flexible' its a slight mistranslation and they mean more dynamic or better range. IMO


----------



## snip3r77

is RY4E plus the one I should get? Can't find it at the store?


----------



## tamahome77

Can't seem to find any info on the K's LHF earbuds anywhere.  @ClieOS , Is the K's LHF bling bling 24K gold earbuds an upgrade over the K's k300 Samsara?  Or is the sound quality more or less the same with a nicer shell?   Any impressions are greatly appreciated ~


----------



## rkw

tamahome77 said:


> Can't seem to find any info on the K's LHF earbuds anywhere.  @ClieOS , Is the K's LHF bling bling 24K gold earbuds an upgrade over the K's k300 Samsara?  Or is the sound quality more or less the same with a nicer shell?


It's not even a nicer shell. It's the same plastic shell, just wrapped in a jacket.


----------



## ClieOS (Mar 28, 2020)

tamahome77 said:


> Can't seem to find any info on the K's LHF earbuds anywhere.  @ClieOS , Is the K's LHF bling bling 24K gold earbuds an upgrade over the K's k300 Samsara?  Or is the sound quality more or less the same with a nicer shell?   Any impressions are greatly appreciated ~



I won't say one is noticeably better than the other.



rkw said:


> It's not even a nicer shell. It's the same plastic shell, just wrapped in a jacket.



You want a nicer shell? YOU CAN'T HANDLE A NICER SHELL!!!

/ insert K's Poseidon $4K custom platinum+gold shell /


----------



## Alex.Grimm

snip3r77 said:


> is RY4E plus the one I should get? Can't find it at the store?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3158#post-15529783


----------



## Yuuus

Alex.Grimm said:


> RY4S Black mmcx plus version $7.19 and good copper mmcx cable (not Silver plating)
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


But what about YINCROW RW-9?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Yuuus said:


> But what about YINCROW RW-9?


I have only x6, I bought yesterday to try rw-9


----------



## LordZero

Is there a earbud with the shape and ergonomics of the bk2 but with better sound?under 50€

Also, is this the sr2, people are talking about here? (2nd image)
#Aliexpress US $14.23  11%OFF | diy earphone pk1 pk2 SR2 16ohms/32ohms/150ohms TPE wire
https://a.aliexpress.com/_dVjQEMS


----------



## koyomin

May I know why you removed the ranking list? I searched somewhere and found one but it was discontinued in 2016. Is it too hard to maintain such a long list while also making sure you can be accountable for the rank you have given?


----------



## EH-Yeon

deyong said:


> Simphonio Dragon 3
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Looks nicely built. How does it fare against the earbud in your background?


----------



## vygas

LordZero said:


> Is there a earbud with the shape and ergonomics of the bk2 but with better sound?under 50€
> 
> Also, is this the sr2, people are talking about here? (2nd image)
> #Aliexpress US $14.23  11%OFF | diy earphone pk1 pk2 SR2 16ohms/32ohms/150ohms TPE wire
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_dVjQEMS


Yes, I personally got the white ones but any of the 16ohm listings should be the SR2.


----------



## ValSilva (Mar 28, 2020)

This is my setup for the weekend. I agree with people saying RY4S mmcx plus its really good, specially for the price (US $7.19) + US $11.00 for the cable.




Ibasso DX160 (4.4mm)
RY4S mmcx plus
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html
NICEHCK MMCX/2Pin Connector 3.5/2.5/4.4mm Balanced 8-Core Copper Silver Mixed Cable
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32859444405.html

I hope everybody stay safe and well, cheers!


----------



## twister6

Well, I'm not a big fan of earbuds, the fit, the fiddling to get the sound right, just not my cup of tea.  BUT, got a surprise from Wild Lee.  Actually received some masks from him (he is offering free masks with every VE order), and he also included VE Sun Dice for me to check it out.



Maybe I'm a noob when it comes to earbuds, only have Monk and Zen, but how is it possible for a pair of earbuds with a single DD to sound that good?!? Wide soundstage and a naturally balanced sound sig with a clarity, transparency, resolution, and layering I’m used to hearing from higher end IEMs; and with the right fit and selection of cover pads (using the sponge pad without a donut hole) the bass is there, a little north of neutral and quite articulate. I’m not a big fan of earbuds, but have to make an exception here.  Btw, also got BIE mmcx, but didn't get to it yet.  Still fascinated with Sun Dice.  And apparently they also have Sun Copper version too?


----------



## assassin10000 (Mar 29, 2020)

twister6 said:


> Well, I'm not a big fan of earbuds, the fit, the fiddling to get the sound right, just not my cup of tea.  BUT, got a surprise from Wild Lee.  Actually received some masks from him (he is offering free masks with every VE order), and he also included VE Sun Dice for me to check it out.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe I'm a noob when it comes to earbuds, only have Monk and Zen, but how is it possible for a pair of earbuds with a single DD to sound that good?!? Wide soundstage and a naturally balanced sound sig with a clarity, transparency, resolution, and layering I’m used to hearing from higher end IEMs; and with the right fit and selection of cover pads (using the sponge pad without a donut hole) the bass is there, a little north of neutral and quite articulate. I’m not a big fan of earbuds, but have to make an exception here.  Btw, also got BIE mmcx, but didn't get to it yet.  Still fascinated with Sun Dice.  And apparently they also have Sun Copper version too?



Welcome to the darkside lol.


If I don't need isolation I much prefer earbuds to IEM's. They sound more natural to me and soundstage is 9 times out of 10 better.


----------



## beanxinh

Hi, 
Does anyone here own a Ling brass or Durandot please give a brief review of its sound. I can't find much information about them online.
Thank


----------



## jenkinsontherun

Hello,

Can someone please recommend me an earbud based ONLY on technicalities?  This means not congested during busy tracks, and imaging is good.  Budget is $200, but it would be very nice to find something below $100.  For example, I heard that ZEN performs well technically, but it's also a bit "old" in terms of the earbud game.  Therefore, I am looking for something new and technically proficient.

Thanks.


----------



## assassin10000

jenkinsontherun said:


> Hello,
> 
> Can someone please recommend me an earbud based ONLY on technicalities?  This means not congested during busy tracks, and imaging is good.  Budget is $200, but it would be very nice to find something below $100.  For example, I heard that ZEN performs well technically, but it's also a bit "old" in terms of the earbud game.  Therefore, I am looking for something new and technically proficient.
> 
> Thanks.



Do you also have a sound signature preference? Source may also matter (200-600 ohm buds are out there).

What kind of busy tracks? EDM, metal, symphony?


My go to recommendation typically is the original Smabat ST-10 as it does most things well. But I've not heard TOTL buds like Shozy, Simphonio dragon 2+/3, Rose Maria, etc. 

And now Smabat has come out with 2 new versions...


----------



## vygas

Does anyone in this thread have a pair of the Shozy XB, and if so, what do they sound like? I haven't been able to find much about it but I have a feeling that they will sound a bit similar to my SR2 (which recently died due to the positive cable deciding to break at the solder point). Any info would be much appreciated.


----------



## jant71

vygas said:


> Does anyone in this thread have a pair of the Shozy XB, and if so, what do they sound like? I haven't been able to find much about it but I have a feeling that they will sound a bit similar to my SR2 (which recently died due to the positive cable deciding to break at the solder point). Any info would be much appreciated.



What do the SR2 sound like? I have an XB


----------



## vygas

jant71 said:


> What do the SR2 sound like? I have an XB


I found the SR2 to be a warm earbud that's really good for vocals and things like the Persona 5 OST (which I listened to exclusively with the SR2). They had some nice bass too, but I think my unit may have been a bit meh compared to others on here due to it's highs feeling a bit veiled even after the burn-in and constant use. I feel like they could've benefited from a silver-plated cable but I am not sure if that would've done much.


----------



## jant71 (Mar 29, 2020)

vygas said:


> I found the SR2 to be a warm earbud that's really good for vocals and things like the Persona 5 OST (which I listened to exclusively with the SR2). They had some nice bass too, but I think my unit may have been a bit meh compared to others on here due to it's highs feeling a bit veiled even after the burn-in and constant use. I feel like they could've benefited from a silver-plated cable but I am not sure if that would've done much.



Perhaps similar but not the same. XB is very good. Think they have a balanced general tuning. They do only ship with one pair of donuts on them which is the only issue I have with them. Think the should be used with donuts myself. Take them off and they will be not neutral but not very warm. Put on full foams and I'm sure they will be nice and warm and the treble would be quite polite bordering on muted too much for my taste. Though I do only have more denser foam on hand so that factors in there. Sounds like the XB would have more bass focus and treble than your SR2.

Of course your source choice makes a difference. More neutral clarity based player then foams may be just the trick. It may depend but think they are a good balance with what you get out of the box and can go either way. So, not gonna lean towards a certain preference which is nice.

I actually would have like the shells to be switched funny enough. just the top plastoc part not the face nor the reliefs...



I would like that more curved and cut out seen on the top of the L bud to be facing front and not back. Just in my case but the fit even better that way. Still they are a good fitting earbud. But we still want a bit more if possible and I noticed the better fit trying them out reversed and over ear while putting them through their paces.

The sound, with the stock donuts, is warmer in the bass and the opening in the foams leaves the treble to be a nice balance and have the right amounts of both. So, while I am on board with the choice some spares would have been nice. Nice case and very good buds so at $49 I won't cry but would have been nice for some extra pairs. Sound, with the donuts, is a slight L shape curve with a bit more focus and bass amount that slightly slopes to near even amounts of midrange and treble. Stage is slightly above average but not really large. A 3 or 4 rows back kind of thing. The separation is also not accentuated which helps the warmth but not gonna be lauded for airy and open spacing. Rides the line not be congested but not being spaced out. Bass has good reach and good texture and enough speed even through the foams. A bit analogue and smooth but good detail and texture shows through. Seems to have layered out well enough and your bass range is distinct enough, not smeared, with discernible note in sub, low, and mid bass regions.

On to the mids, they are sweet, warm, and have enough clarity and detail. Won't rival well above the bracket $100 models but again a good balance and of course really clean and clear mids would not work with the donuts and give cohesion issues making the bass be too thick and ruin the bass to mid/vocal transition. Still good vocals for both male and female. Should be happy with them out of most devices. Room to clean up with a big clarity boost w/o going sibilant. More general goodness. Riding the line to please most with the ability and amount of warmth and clarity.

For the treble we don't have the mount or reach that the bass does. I think just right with the donuts. Not lacking in amount but not the focus. Bass is the slight focus but treble hangs right there with the mids. More treble than my Aurvana air with full foams which rolls off and is a bit safer. Still the XB are safe to crank up even unamped. They can take a bit of added brightness and seem free of any troublesome peaks. Brighter source could go to full foams to keep the bass warmth or they can get very balanced and lose the L sig.

I have been very happy with them. Warm enough good low reach. Some feel to the bass. Enough detail and clarity but stays thick enough and are good for outdoors against some noise. Cable is both handsome and well behaved and the little rubber Y is small and light and not bothersome. No slider but doesn't really need it. Could have come with a clip though. With no clip and no spare donuts, accessories are the one area that gets a low grade from me but everything else is very good.


----------



## vygas

jant71 said:


> Perhaps similar but not the same. XB is very good. Think they have a balanced general tuning. They do only ship with one pair of donuts on them which is the only issue I have with them. Think the should be used with donuts myself. Take them off and they will be not neutral but not very warm. Put on full foams and I'm sure they will be nice and warm and the treble would be quite polite bordering on muted too much for my taste. Though I do only have more denser foam on hand so that factors in there. Sounds like the XB would have more bass focus and treble than your SR2.
> 
> Of course your source choice makes a difference. More neutral clarity based player then foams may be just the trick. It may depend but think they are a good balance with what you get out of the box and can go either way. So, not gonna lean towards a certain preference which is nice.
> 
> ...


Wow, thank you for the in-depth look into the XB. I have actually been using the SR2's with donut foams as well so I can get some more of the highs. I feel like the XB may be something I'd really, really enjoy. I do have a lot of the accessories that you say are missing so I wouldn't really mind that at all. Definitely at the top of my considerations for earbuds.


----------



## jant71

vygas said:


> Wow, thank you for the in-depth look into the XB. I have actually been using the SR2's with donut foams as well so I can get some more of the highs. I feel like the XB may be something I'd really, really enjoy. I do have a lot of the accessories that you say are missing so I wouldn't really mind that at all. Definitely at the top of my considerations for earbuds.



You'll like them no doubt. An easy recommendation. I just want to find some gold color donuts that match nice with the cable.


----------



## vygas

jant71 said:


> You'll like them no doubt. An easy recommendation. I just want to find some gold color donuts that match nice with the cable.


I mean, you can always just buy yellow Trig Rain foams and then cut a hole roughly the same size as the other hole. But that can look pretty janky.


----------



## theresanarc

Yikes looks like only one seller left for the Qian69s. Before I order those, has anyone else released something in a similar shell/price-range lately? I mostly still see mx500 shell recommendations in that price range here.


----------



## jenkinsontherun (Mar 29, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Do you also have a sound signature preference? Source may also matter (200-600 ohm buds are out there).
> 
> What kind of busy tracks? EDM, metal, symphony?
> 
> ...



Hi, thanks for your response.

My signature preference, and this sort of goes against the "technical" request, is that the treble is not peaky, and maybe even slightly rolled off.  The thing is, I don't care about the quantity/quality of tone rather than just the earbud being able to perform.  Indeed, IEMs would maybe be better, but I am in a situation where I always need to listen to my surroundings.  So basically, no sound signature.  Any highly technical earbud would be considered.

I have a E17K DAC/amp.   Thanks for recommending ST-10, as I heard good things about it.  However, worn over ear is a con for me .

I know I am asking a lot, but with a budget of ~$150, I hope there are options.

Thanks again.


----------



## DBaldock9

ClieOS said:


> Black gold is the limited edition ST-10s with high impedance drivers.
> 
> Also, ST-10s has not been official released yet. The planned release date is on April. This is a pre-sale.



Ordered a set of the Black/Gold Smabat ST-10s last night.


----------



## mbwilson111

jenkinsontherun said:


> Thanks for recommending ST-10, as I heard good things about it. However, worn over ear is a con for me .



I wear my ST10 cable down with a cable that has no earhooks.


----------



## jenkinsontherun

mbwilson111 said:


> I wear my ST10 cable down with a cable that has no earhooks.


Okay, if able to worn down, then that changes a bit of thing.  With the overwhelming reviews on the ST-10, that's probably what I will go with.  Thank you.


----------



## jenkinsontherun

I can't stress how well the H180 performs.  It outperforms, from a technical and soundstage standpoint, higher end earbuds like the Hifiboy dream.  It has a dryer tone, and separation is great.

The only flaw is that there is a treble peak.  I know most people don't like EQ, but if you EQ down the treble, it's a high proficient earbud.


----------



## emusic13

Was thinking of getting the Turandot since its the 10th anniversary sale on AE. Is $200 actually a good price (3.5 with adaptor)? Or is it a "discount" where they raise the base msrp during this event and give a percentage off?


----------



## wskl

emusic13 said:


> Was thinking of getting the Turandot since its the 10th anniversary sale on AE. Is $200 actually a good price (3.5 with adaptor)? Or is it a "discount" where they raise the base msrp during this event and give a percentage off?



Regular price before sales was around $229 for Turandot with adaptor, don't forget to make use of coupons to get extra discount.


----------



## Jsingh4

DBaldock9 said:


> Ordered a set of the Black/Gold Smabat ST-10s last night.


You ordered it from which store?


----------



## baskingshark

Jsingh4 said:


> You ordered it from which store?



Actually there are quite a few stores selling the black silver and black gold versions on Aliexpress. 

Quite a few are selling the black gold ones at between $96 - $155. For the black silver ones, the price ranges from $84 - 99. With stacking coupons, the prices may be cheaper even. Big variance in pricing especially the black gold ones. Some sellers I spoke to even offered a 10% discount upfront to buy it now, but it only ships somewhere in april 2020. 

Very tempting, I'm still thinking about it. Hahaha, self control!!!!


----------



## LordZero

vygas said:


> Yes, I personally got the white ones but any of the 16ohm listings should be the SR2.


Thank you 

will order some, also the cable you recommended for the mmcx version of the RY4S.


----------



## nxnje

Hello everyone.
Is there someone that knows if there are some sort of adapters that can be mounted on classic earbuds that "transforms" them into an in ear?
I know it's a strange question, but there are lots of Earbud I'd like to try and I can't stand big earbuds (and small earbuds don't have bass nor sub-bass so I suffer when listening to dubstep tracks or similar bass heavy genres).


----------



## DBaldock9

Jsingh4 said:


> You ordered it from which store?



NiceHCK


----------



## vygas

Sadly, the seller of the ANN 100 and Kube V2 on ebay told me my order is cancelled and that they cannot currently ship to the UK . Hopefully I can get my hands on those buds after this whole pandemic stuff. Kind of sucks though, hopefully the same doesn't happen to my ANN N200's.


----------



## vygas

nxnje said:


> Hello everyone.
> Is there someone that knows if there are some sort of adapters that can be mounted on classic earbuds that "transforms" them into an in ear?
> I know it's a strange question, but there are lots of Earbud I'd like to try and I can't stand big earbuds (and small earbuds don't have bass nor sub-bass so I suffer when listening to dubstep tracks or similar bass heavy genres).


I used to have these JBL sports earphones that were essentially earbuds with a whole rubber part to it that made it into an in-ear. Those rubber things didn't fit on any of my buds though as the drivers on the JBL earphones were a lot smaller than PK drivers :/. I am sure there's something out there that does the same but for a bigger driver but I am not sure if it's possible to buy them on their own.


----------



## seanc6441

K's Black Ling in PK shell.


----------



## golov17

nxnje said:


> Hello everyone.
> Is there someone that knows if there are some sort of adapters that can be mounted on classic earbuds that "transforms" them into an in ear?
> I know it's a strange question, but there are lots of Earbud I'd like to try and I can't stand big earbuds (and small earbuds don't have bass nor sub-bass so I suffer when listening to dubstep tracks or similar bass heavy genres).


#Aliexpress US $0.72  36%OFF | New 10pcs/lot Soft Silicone Ear Pads Eartips for Samsung Galaxy S7 S6 Edge 9200 In-ear Headphones Earphone Earpads Ear Pads
https://a.aliexpress.ru/_eKBtdt
#Aliexpress US $0.47  27%OFF | 1 pairs White Silicone Sport Earpad Earphone  Tips Earbuds For Samsung R130 gear circle Earphone Gift
https://a.aliexpress.ru/_eO7nwL
#Aliexpress US $0.53  24%OFF | 1 Pair Suitable for Bluetooth Wireless Headset Ear Cap For Airpods Non-slip Silicone In-ear Earbuds Drop shipping
https://a.aliexpress.ru/_eOANzZ


----------



## ClieOS

nxnje said:


> Hello everyone.
> Is there someone that knows if there are some sort of adapters that can be mounted on classic earbuds that "transforms" them into an in ear?
> I know it's a strange question, but there are lots of Earbud I'd like to try and I can't stand big earbuds (and small earbuds don't have bass nor sub-bass so I suffer when listening to dubstep tracks or similar bass heavy genres).



Generally any of such adapters will ruin the earbuds' sound by 500%.


----------



## golov17

ClieOS said:


> Generally any of such adapters will ruin the earbuds' sound by 500%.


agree with you


----------



## golov17

BTW


----------



## brianforever

nxnje said:


> Hello everyone.
> Is there someone that knows if there are some sort of adapters that can be mounted on classic earbuds that "transforms" them into an in ear?
> I know it's a strange question, but there are lots of Earbud I'd like to try and I can't stand big earbuds (and small earbuds don't have bass nor sub-bass so I suffer when listening to dubstep tracks or similar bass heavy genres).


----------



## GREQ

nxnje said:


> Hello everyone.
> Is there someone that knows if there are some sort of adapters that can be mounted on classic earbuds that "transforms" them into an in ear?
> I know it's a strange question, but there are lots of Earbud I'd like to try and I can't stand big earbuds (and small earbuds don't have bass nor sub-bass so I suffer when listening to dubstep tracks or similar bass heavy genres).


I've tried using those silicone 'pod-adapters' but they don't work with any normal earbuds. They can only be used with pods.
When you put them on regular buds, they don't even provide more sub-bass - just bloated low-mids.

You'll get better sub-bass with a Vido with full-foam, or double-foam, or another well-known bassy earbud.


----------



## jant71 (Apr 1, 2020)

nxnje said:


> Hello everyone.
> Is there someone that knows if there are some sort of adapters that can be mounted on classic earbuds that "transforms" them into an in ear?
> I know it's a strange question, but there are lots of Earbud I'd like to try and I can't stand big earbuds (and small earbuds don't have bass nor sub-bass so I suffer when listening to dubstep tracks or similar bass heavy genres).



The only usable situation, if you can find them, is the Yuin OK buds. Perhaps a WTB thread in the FS forum will get you a pair.


----------



## beanxinh

My small collection of earbuds: Simphonio Dragon3, Moondrop Chaconne, Rose Masya, Willsound mk600, BGDV DX5, Fengru DIY PK1


----------



## beanxinh

I hear a lot of good review of the Black ling but I can't find it on Ali, only the Ling Brass and Bell-Ti so what has the same sound as Black Ling? Thank.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

beanxinh said:


> I hear a lot of good review of the Black ling but I can't find it on Ali, only the Ling Brass and Bell-Ti so what has the same sound as Black Ling? Thank.


No more Black Ling, only K's Ling 195ohm (Bell-WE)
https://a.aliexpress.com/_BUILSX


----------



## Alex.Grimm

found this not sure about the honesty of this site


----------



## beanxinh

Alex.Grimm said:


> No more Black Ling, only K's Ling 195ohm (Bell-WE)
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_BUILSX


Yeah that is the Ling Brass, just that I can't find many review online so I don't know its sound signature.


----------



## theresanarc

Anyone know what type of foam cover setup and type of foam I'd use to reduce the sharp treble on these Toneking ROS1s? They don't have any hole I can see on the back side btw. They look like this:

https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1B0iQbizxK1Rjy1zkq6yHrVXaK.jpg


----------



## mbwilson111

theresanarc said:


> Anyone know what type of foam cover setup and type of foam I'd use to reduce the sharp treble on these Toneking ROS1s? They don't have any hole I can see on the back side btw. They look like this:
> 
> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1B0iQbizxK1Rjy1zkq6yHrVXaK.jpg


Would you get a better seal with a donut on top of a full foam?


----------



## captione

I think those foams that came with the MS16 will do the treble decrease trick. They were made in much denser material (neoprene? I think?) and used it on various bright earbuds. You should combine some full foam + donut too.


----------



## noknok23

beanxinh said:


> My small collection of earbuds: Simphonio Dragon3, Moondrop Chaconne, Rose Masya, Willsound mk600, BGDV DX5, Fengru DIY PK1


Can you rank them? Very nice collection.


----------



## thesoundandthefury

Can anyone recommend me an *earbud* that might compete with my go-to iem, the *mee audio pinnacle p1*? 
For those who haven't heard the p1: your suggestions are still very welcome!

Looking for:

1) something that sounds OK with just a good *smartphone* (xperia z3) 
2) a *neutral* to warm/dark/smooth signature. 
3) lush *fullness* in bass and mids 
4) excellent separation, imaging and *SOUNDSTAGE* (enough to match or surpass that of mee pinnacle p1)
5) a *detachable* cable (necessary if the earbud costs over $100)

Is this asking for too much? My budget is *$350* usd


----------



## beanxinh

noknok23 said:


> Can you rank them? Very nice collection.


From best to worst:
- Simphonio Dragon 3: very large Soundstage, balance sound. 
- Willsound mk600: very good mid, small sound stage suitable for female vocal. 
- Chaconne : good bass but very uncomfortable to wear for a long time. 
- DX5: weak bass, decent mid and trebe a little bit similar to yuin pk2.
- Fengru DIY Pk1: bloated bass


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 2, 2020)

beanxinh said:


> Yeah that is the Ling Brass, just that I can't find many review online so I don't know its sound signature.


I have one (original black ling 195ohm) if you want to hear my two cent and why I've been wanting to mod it since i got it!

Ok, so I've had the earbud for about 2 years now technically, but because of various reasons like being away from earbuds for 8 months due to tinnitus and because of the difficulty of separating the driver cover from the shell I've only recently been able to really know how this driver should perform because of covid-19 lockdown giving me time to mod some earbuds again.

So to start I'll say this about the black ling. Fantastic driver (possibly the most coherant slightly warm tilting frequency response ive heard. Bass depth and impact, midrange tonality and vocal imaging, treble detail and smoothness is all there.

But most of that is not realised with the stock tuning which literally sucks! I don't know if they forgot to add a port somewhere in my unit but the brass shell without back porting or any dampening literally gives the driver a tin can sound effect.

Remove the driver from the shell and just place it to your ear and you start to get the real sound this thing can produce.

Spend about 5 hours tuning a pk shell (same diamter to fit in a pk shell luckily) and you get the earbud you thought you paid for.

I thought the guys at K's would've been adequate at tuning earbuds so im a bit perplexed as to how they can make such a nice driver sound so weird which the fix was reletively easy overall.

But anyways there you have it. Great full frequency range for an earbud, especially nice on guitar, bassy instruments and vocals but can also handle EDM and pop/rock fairly easily because its a clean sound with a hint of warmth and very nice bass separation. Treble is a touch soft for treble heads but its detailed and doesnt dip or fall off a clip, its simply just inline with the overall balanced smooth sound this driver gives out. It has enough energy for the task but is never bright.

Anyway thats my thoughts on the matter. Can't say whether you should buy the product as it is but if they should the drivers separately I'd be very interested in picking up some more!


----------



## beanxinh

seanc6441 said:


> I have one (original black ling 195ohm) if you want to hear my two cent and why I've been wanting to mod it since i got it!
> 
> Ok, so I've had the earbud for about 2 years now technically, but because of various reasons like being away from earbuds for 8 months due to tinnitus and because of the difficulty of separating the driver cover from the shell I've only recently been able to really know how this driver should perform because of covid-19 lockdown giving me time to mod some earbuds again.
> 
> ...


Does remove the driver from the shell difficult, does it delicate? I like what you described about the sound after modding but I have a shaky hand and afraid that I my destroy an 150$ bud .


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 3, 2020)

beanxinh said:


> Does remove the driver from the shell difficult, does it delicate? I like what you described about the sound after modding but I have a shaky hand and afraid that I my destroy an 150$ bud .


Not so easy because its all metal so its difficult to pry the cover open.

Sadly I don't think it's worth the risk and effort if you can buy ready high end pk earbuds like d3 and dsqm turandot which probably have a similar level of sound quality.

But i haven't heard those only whats on my list and this new black ling 'fixed' version which is the best I've heard so far.

The best comparison i can make it to the shozy cygnus, but with better bass depth and impact, and slightly less forward mids and slightly more smooth treble.

Sounds a bit similar to Penon BS1 Official too, but less bright upper mids and less cleaner deeper bass.


----------



## beanxinh

seanc6441 said:


> Not so easy because its all metal so its difficult to pry the cover open.
> 
> Sadly I don't think it's worth the risk and effort if you can buy ready high end pk earbuds like d3 and dsqm turandot which probably have a similar level of sound quality.
> 
> ...


Thanks I guest I'll go with The turandot when I save enough money  , it had been on my list for a while. I almost buy it this week on the 10th anniversary of Ali but in the end I buy the Chaconne because I got a good deal at the local store.


----------



## thesoundandthefury

thesoundandthefury said:


> Can anyone recommend me an *earbud* that might compete with my go-to iem, the *mee audio pinnacle p1*?
> For those who haven't heard the p1: your suggestions are still very welcome!
> 
> Looking for:
> ...



I am veering towards buying the ourart QJ21 - can anyone comment as to whether this might best meet my expectations?


----------



## ClieOS

Smabat ST-10s has began to ship, though international shipping is so slow this days I'll be lucky if I can get it by the end of the month...


----------



## baskingshark

ClieOS said:


> Smabat ST-10s has began to ship, though international shipping is so slow this days I'll be lucky if I can get it by the end of the month...



Did u get the black silver or black gold one?

Look forward to your review!


----------



## thesoundandthefury

Do fixed cables last longer than detachable ones?

Detachable cables usually last me about 4-6 months before one side cuts out when the connection is wiggled slightly. Albeit I am pretty rough with them, wear them in light rain etc. But at least its a cheap fix.

Seeing as the issue seems to be always with the point of connection (to the bud), would I have more luck with a (totl) fixed cable earbud or should I avoid them entirely? The thought of spending $200-500 on symphonio dragon only to have it break in a few months gives me shivers.


----------



## baskingshark

thesoundandthefury said:


> Do fixed cables last longer than detachable ones?
> 
> Detachable cables usually last me about 4-6 months before one side cuts out when the connection is wiggled slightly. Albeit I am pretty rough with them, wear them in light rain etc. But at least its a cheap fix.
> 
> Seeing as the issue seems to be always with the point of connection (to the bud), would I have more luck with a (totl) fixed cable earbud or should I avoid them entirely? The thought of spending $200-500 on symphonio dragon only to have it break in a few months gives me shivers.



I had 2 expensive Westone IEMs (non detachable cables) die on me in 2 years (even though I was babying them and putting them in hardcases when not using and never ever stuffing it in bags/pockets).

These non detachable cables generally are the first point of failure IMHO, so I won't buy any gear more than $30 USD with fixed cables from now on. I mean even a cheapo $20ish set like **** and BK2 can incorporate MMCX connectors, so it is pretty disappointing TOTL sets still come with non detachable cables nowadays. It is just one awkward yank away from dying, but of course everyone has their own opinions on this issue, so as long as you are happy with your gear!!
Well if u have soldering skills then maybe u can recable or MMCX mod your IEMs, but for the general laymen, once the non detachable cable dies, the IEM/bud goes with it.

But more than the non detachable cable dying, sometimes audiophiles want to use aftermarket balanced cables or even cables of different materials (eg copper, silver etc) to change the sound signature subtlely (if u are a cable believer that is).


----------



## Carrow

beanxinh said:


> My small collection of earbuds: Simphonio Dragon3, Moondrop Chaconne, Rose Masya, Willsound mk600, BGDV DX5, Fengru DIY PK1



Is that an original Rose Masya or the Pro/MK2? I had the original and was wondering what you thought of the MK2 (if indeed that's what that is) as I've been thinking about picking them up recently!


----------



## thesoundandthefury

baskingshark said:


> I had 2 expensive Westone IEMs (non detachable cables) die on me in 2 years (even though I was babying them and putting them in hardcases when not using and never ever stuffing it in bags/pockets).
> 
> These non detachable cables generally are the first point of failure IMHO, so I won't buy any gear more than $30 USD with fixed cables from now on. I mean even a cheapo $20ish set like **** and BK2 can incorporate MMCX connectors, so it is pretty disappointing TOTL sets still come with non detachable cables nowadays. It is just one awkward yank away from dying, but of course everyone has their own opinions on this issue, so as long as you are happy with your gear!!
> Well if u have soldering skills then maybe u can recable or MMCX mod your IEMs, but for the general laymen, once the non detachable cable dies, the IEM/bud goes with it.
> ...



Thanks for your input, think I'll pass on the dragons then. Do you have any recs for TOTL mmcx eabuds? My sound priorities were outlined here:


thesoundandthefury said:


> Can anyone recommend me an *earbud* that might compete with my go-to iem, the *mee audio pinnacle p1*?
> For those who haven't heard the p1: your suggestions are still very welcome!
> 
> Looking for:
> ...


----------



## baskingshark

thesoundandthefury said:


> Thanks for your input, think I'll pass on the dragons then. Do you have any recs for TOTL mmcx eabuds? My sound priorities were outlined here:



I haven't tried the Mee Pinnacle P1, but most buds should trump IEMs in the soundstage department (though at the expense of isolation), so don't worry about soundstage in buds in general. I'm more of an IEM guy than earbud guy, so I'm not really the best person for advise on TOTL buds as I haven't bought any bud > $100 USD. I hope the others here can assist u!

FWIW maybe check out the SMABAT ST10S (new version of the SMABAT ST10). The original was a bit V shaped (so not neutral) but had good bass extension/quantity for a bud based on reviews, and looks pretty good on technicalities. I'm waiting for reviews on the SMABAT ST10S too!


----------



## beanxinh

Carrow said:


> Is that an original Rose Masya or the Pro/MK2? I had the original and was wondering what you thought of the MK2 (if indeed that's what that is) as I've been thinking about picking them up recently!


That is the rose Masya MK2. They have decent sub bass (not as much as the Chaconne), the mid is clean a little bit bright, the trebe is airy. I think they are a well rounded earbud but nothing stand out. If you already have the original I think you should skip it and go for different earbud.


----------



## Piorbis

beanxinh said:


> From best to worst:
> - Simphonio Dragon 3: very large Soundstage, balance sound.
> - Willsound mk600: very good mid, small sound stage suitable for female vocal.
> - Chaconne : good bass but very uncomfortable to wear for a long time.
> ...


Is swd3 neutral or warm?


----------



## beanxinh

Piorbis said:


> Is swd3 neutral or warm?


It lean on the warm size but not much.


----------



## Carrow

beanxinh said:


> That is the rose Masya MK2. They have decent sub bass (not as much as the Chaconne), the mid is clean a little bit bright, the trebe is airy. I think they are a well rounded earbud but nothing stand out. If you already have the original I think you should skip it and go for different earbud.



Don't have the MK1 anymore but it doesn't sound like the MK2 would play well with my current source (FiiO X5iii)! Anything in a similar price range you might recommend?


----------



## Bing Hypotenuse

Hey earbud fans! First, thanks for all the info collected here, it's both fun and valuable.   I am interested in comments and reviews about the VE Zen LL Dice. I have seen one review and a few comments from people who were looking forward to receiving them, and am interested in hearing more feedback. 

For me, I like a warm/neutral sound, I'm definitely not a basshead. My earbuds of choice right now are the NiceHCK ME80's, I also like the NiceHCK B40's and the Earbuds Anonymous buds. The EA buds are at the top edge of what I like for bass, I don't think I'd like anything much bassier than those. I am gravitating to the Zen LL Dice because I love the shells. I had the Zen Lites, both 40 and 120, and found them really comfortable but I preferred them for podcasts over music. 

Thanks in advance, I look forward to hearing folks' impressions!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Wanted, recommendations for a *desktop headphone amp* (no DAC) with a low & high gain switch for both ciems/iems (up to ~35Ω) and ear buds (up to ~300Ω). Price range up to USD $2K. The amp needs to play nicely (quietly and not blow up) sensitive ear buds, iems, and ciems.

A few that have been recommended thus far:

_HeadAmp GS-X Mini
Questyle CMA800R
Massdrop THX AAA 789_


----------



## vygas

Also, @mbwilson111, I remember seeing a post about you wanting a pair stock long stem docomo buds, did you ever find any? Since I think that DIY Earphone Tribe Store has some of the black ones with the mic cable. I can post a link to them on this thread if you're still interested in a pair.


----------



## jogawag

vygas said:


> Also, @mbwilson111, I remember seeing a post about you wanting a pair stock long stem docomo buds, did you ever find any? Since I think that DIY Earphone Tribe Store has some of the black ones with the mic cable. I can post a link to them on this thread if you're still interested in a pair.



Are the stock long stem docomo buds the same as this BLACK w/mic version linked below?
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?act=ST&f=132&t=4595690


----------



## mochill

Shozy xb is docomo


----------



## jogawag (Apr 4, 2020)

mochill said:


> Shozy xb is docomo


Specifically, Shozy Cygnus and Shozy BK are docomo shell buds, and Shozy XB is docomo variant shell buds or longstem docomo shell buds.
(Because it is confusing that there are two Shells with the same name ...)


----------



## mochill

It's a long stem docomo

https://penonaudio.com/shozy-xb.htm...3HgyyWODB5fBCDc67abd2fZ1CSaNtyHGLLnDA4ect5LXf


----------



## vygas (Apr 5, 2020)

jogawag said:


> Are the stock long stem docomo buds the same as this BLACK w/mic version linked below?
> https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?act=ST&f=132&t=4595690


Yes they are, I haven't checked how much the lowyat seller would charge for shipping but I'd assume it would come out to being roughly the same price as the listing on ali. I also got the seller to show me what the drivers look like, sadly it doesn't let me upload them properly on mobile but they look like the drivers from the lowyat seller's photos.

Edit : I'm on my computer now, here's the image of the driver sent to me by the DIY Earphone Tribe Store :


----------



## mochill

Also have silver plated cable black docomo


----------



## beanxinh

Carrow said:


> Don't have the MK1 anymore but it doesn't sound like the MK2 would play well with my current source (FiiO X5iii)! Anything in a similar price range you might recommend?


I don't have Fiio X5mk3 so I don't know how it goes with different earbud but at that price range I can recommend Willsound Mk600, they sound warm and intimate, when listening to female vocal I often use it.


----------



## GREQ

Sony HMP-64 
(worth modding with new drivers for absolutely ear-drum shattering, yet tasteful bass)


----------



## cyh03176

GREQ said:


> Sony HMP-64
> (worth modding with new drivers for absolutely ear-drum shattering, yet tasteful bass)


how does it sound compared to me80?


----------



## GREQ

cyh03176 said:


> how does it sound compared to me80?


No idea. I don't have the me80.


----------



## mochill

GREQ said:


> No idea. I don't have the me80.


What driver and is this for sell :-D


----------



## jhawkes (Apr 6, 2020)

Dear Earbud devotees!

Read as much of this incredibly informative thread as I could, but would appreciate some 2020 insight of the earbud market.

I’m looking at the options to replacement my Yuin PK2, which no longer work and don’t have the skills to repair / mod!

To the point — _I’ve got a budget of $100 maximum (USD). Looking for an earbud with a fairly flat / neutral sound signature. I’m not a “basshead”. Listen to jazz, folk, acoustic, singer/songwriter type of thing. Intend to use them to listen to a plenty of podcasts and audiobooks. Looking for something as near to the Yuin PK form factor available.

Any input would be most appreciated!_


Kind regards.


----------



## jogawag (Apr 6, 2020)

jhawkes said:


> Dear Earbud devotees!
> 
> Read as much of this incredibly informative thread as I could, but would appreciate some 2020 insight of the earbud market.
> 
> ...


I recommend  you smabat st-10S.
This is the successor to the smabat st10 (discontinued) with a neutral sound signature.
If you do not like the cable above the ear, you can drop the cable straight down by replacing the left and right shells.


----------



## jhawkes (Apr 6, 2020)

jogawag said:


> I recommend  you smabat st-10S.
> This is the successor to the smabat st10 (discontinued) with a neutral sound signature.
> If you do not like the cable above the ear, you can drop the cable straight down by replacing the left and right shells.



Thank you for the kind response _Jogawag_!

Read about the Smabat you suggest, it does seem fantastic. I am, however, really hoping to buy an earbud that uses the PK shell (or similar).

I’m particularly curious about either the *ISN Audio Rambo*, after reading the handful reviews about it on Head-Fi and elsewhere.

Does anyone have along term experience with the Rambo? Specifically, how it compares with the *Shozy Cygnus*?

These are my two leading candidates and intend to use either with an iPhone 6S (3.5mm FTW!).

Which would you go for?! Thank you for your time.


----------



## mochill

https://penonaudio.com/reecho-rc-one.html

Looks great


----------



## KevDzn

Recently I managed to get my hands on a pair of VE Monk V1. Been listening it for 2-3 days and enjoying it.
The SQ is vastly different from the Monk+, its more of a v-shape. In my personal opinion, a more balanced version of TY hi-Z 32.
A worthy gem for the collection.


----------



## Jsingh4

Has anyone heard about this brand 

- https://penonaudio.com/earphones/ea...xdV5UtipnNrE1l8bB_4Sb83C50d73rBXU3cU0AMN6ctMg

Quite raving review


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 7, 2020)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Wanted, recommendations for a *desktop headphone amp* (no DAC) with a low & high gain switch for both ciems/iems (up to ~35Ω) and ear buds (up to ~300Ω). Price range up to USD $2K. The amp needs to play nicely (quietly and not blow up) sensitive ear buds, iems, and ciems.
> 
> A few that have been recommended thus far:
> 
> ...


*UPDATE:*
Unknowingly, my nephew already bought a Schiit MJOLNIR and is feeding it signal straight from his PS Audio DirectStream DAC. He said it is working great with his sensitive ciems (silent with no hiss), as well as with his collection of ear buds (ranging from 16 up to 600 ohms).  I had forgotten that many of the Schiit amps had iem-level gain settings.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Jsingh4 said:


> Has anyone heard about this brand
> 
> - https://penonaudio.com/earphones/ea...xdV5UtipnNrE1l8bB_4Sb83C50d73rBXU3cU0AMN6ctMg
> 
> Quite raving review


https://www.audiobuko.com/2018/11/shoonth-esep-01bl-review-vocalistic-and.html


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 10, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Crystalcore Audio Kryptonite 150Ω*
> Earbuds received today! Listened to 'em for about six hours now. Very pleased; comfortable, non-fatiguing with a very ear friendly signature thus far . Definitely am liking the smaller Yuin shell type... much better fit in my small ears than my MX500 shelled *Blur*. The low end is much improved due to a tighter fit and those interesting Crystalcore Audio signature bass ports. I believe their sensitivity (dBSPL) may be around 96 to 98 dB/mW as they are nearly as difficult to drive as my Puresounds PS100-600S "Pop" (600Ω) earbuds were whose sensitivity was around 93 dB/mW.
> 
> 
> ...


Closing in on ten (10) months now and my "*Kryptonite 150Ω*" ear buds are performing without a hitch. They have become my daily drivers (eight plus hour days) and boy have they performed admirably! Super comfortable with a very easy on the ears sound signature. Besides my Blurs these are my favorite... more so than my beloved 600Ω PureSounds that died on me


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

So anyone have the new Smabat ST-10s in ear yet? Smabat is my favorite as far as earbuds. I have both the M1 Pro as well as St-10(wearing them now). The new graph from the company shows some bass shift and I am not sure what else to expect. I know they made the bass chamber bigger and the two ohm types. Since I mostly do things from my Dell laptop I will probably just do the Silver unless Gold is really that much better then I'll be going for the gold. Overall still really happy with the old order Smabat kit but of course I am pulled in by the new shiny things.


----------



## mochill

headenvelopedinsound said:


> So anyone have the new Smabat ST-10s in ear yet? Smabat is my favorite as far as earbuds. I have both the M1 Pro as well as St-10(wearing them now). The new graph from the company shows some bass shift and I am not sure what else to expect. I know they made the bass chamber bigger and the two ohm types. Since I mostly do things from my Dell laptop I will probably just do the Silver unless Gold is really that much better then I'll be going for the gold. Overall still really happy with the old order Smabat kit but of course I am pulled in by the new shiny things.


You need that new shiny golden toy


----------



## DBaldock9

mochill said:


> You need that new shiny golden toy



Hear, Hear!


----------



## mochill

headenvelopedinsound said:


> So anyone have the new Smabat ST-10s in ear yet? Smabat is my favorite as far as earbuds. I have both the M1 Pro as well as St-10(wearing them now). The new graph from the company shows some bass shift and I am not sure what else to expect. I know they made the bass chamber bigger and the two ohm types. Since I mostly do things from my Dell laptop I will probably just do the Silver unless Gold is really that much better then I'll be going for the gold. Overall still really happy with the old order Smabat kit but of course I am pulled in by the new shiny things.


You need that new shiny golden toy


----------



## golov17

still waiting for shipment (Smabat's)


----------



## assassin10000 (Apr 7, 2020)

headenvelopedinsound said:


> So anyone have the new Smabat ST-10s in ear yet? Smabat is my favorite as far as earbuds. I have both the M1 Pro as well as St-10(wearing them now). The new graph from the company shows some bass shift and I am not sure what else to expect. I know they made the bass chamber bigger and the two ohm types. Since I mostly do things from my Dell laptop I will probably just do the Silver unless Gold is really that much better then I'll be going for the gold. Overall still really happy with the old order Smabat kit but of course I am pulled in by the new shiny things.





DBaldock9 said:


> Hear, Hear!



Since its laptop driven, I'd go for the Gold. 

150ohm means it can be driven with a bit morr amperage and will give more control. Which imo = possibly better sound. It also will be less susceptible to hiss from higher output impedance sources.

The silver 40ohm appears very similar to the original which is 45ohm iirc. Except for the obviously 'longer' bass port. Longer = lower frequency when it comes to port design.  For example, that means it's emphasis may move from 80hz to 60hz, or something along those lines.


So silver may be more of a sidegrade and gold has a better chance of being an upgrade. At least that's what I'm guessing.


----------



## Survivor (Apr 8, 2020)

Hi, can anyone compare HE150 Pro, Seahf 150 and Faaeal Rosemary?


----------



## bhima

I wish someone would make an Smabat-style earbud but use a PK shell at the end instead of that almost 16mm monstrosity.

I have recently ordered the Final Audio E2000 ( I know, they are IEM's and not earbuds). For fun, after burn in, I'll test them against my Shozy BKs which have been my main daily drivers. 

Also, had to have my Shozy BKs fixed by an engineer buddy of mine since Shozy was non-responsive when I asked to have them repaired (even told them I'd pay). That was the last time I spend really anything over $50 on earphones without detachable cables. They sound great, but I just know they will die at some point.


----------



## golov17

bhima said:


> I wish someone would make an Smabat-style earbud but use a PK shell at the end instead of that almost 16mm monstrosity.
> 
> I have recently ordered the Final Audio E2000 ( I know, they are IEM's and not earbuds). For fun, after burn in, I'll test them against my Shozy BKs which have been my main daily drivers.
> 
> Also, had to have my Shozy BKs fixed by an engineer buddy of mine since Shozy was non-responsive when I asked to have them repaired (even told them I'd pay). That was the last time I spend really anything over $50 on earphones without detachable cables. They sound great, but I just know they will die at some point.


 m1pro has a smaller driver 14.1 mm than 14.8 bk's


----------



## thesoundandthefury

Do people find the Smabat M1 more comfortable than other earbuds? I ordered the M1 instead of the ST-10s assuming a small shell would be more comfortable in my (normal-sized) ears


----------



## bhima

golov17 said:


> m1pro has a smaller driver 14.1 mm than 14.8 bk's


Awesome! I have put these on my wish list. Will look up some reviews and see what the sound signature and quality are like. The BKs are basically TOTL earbuds for me--so, the real reason I would replace them is because I can get an equal quality of sound with detachable cables.


----------



## mochill

bhima said:


> Awesome! I have put these on my wish list. Will look up some reviews and see what the sound signature and quality are like. The BKs are basically TOTL earbuds for me--so, the real reason I would replace them is because I can get an equal quality of sound with detachable cables.


Try the final audio design A8000


----------



## bhima

mochill said:


> Try the final audio design A8000


I'd never spend that kind of money on any headphones ($2,000). If I was going to buy a TOTL IEM, I'd probably buy the latest Flare as it too uses a Berilyum driver and most reviewers believe it is better than Campfire's offerings. Also, I don't like IEMs without big ports, or those that are not designed like small bullets--I can never get them to fit right, and without the port, I can hear my breathing too much--makes me feel like I'm under water.


With regards to the Final Audio E2000 that I just received: I have to burn them in, but what I'm hearing is quite good for $40 though there is WAAAAAAYYYY too much bass currently. Hope it settles down. Also, the soundstage isn't bad for an IEM, but it does not come even close to my Shozy BK in soundstage or separation (separation issues is likely do to the overbearing midbass).


----------



## WoodyLuvr

About ready to pull that rotten trigger for the Smabat ST-10s but which one does me choose... 40Ω  or 150Ω?
For only desktop usage...either 40Ω or 150Ω.
I do have a nice dac/amp... so 150Ω.
But I already have a pair of 150Ω ear buds... so 40Ω.
Decisions, decisions. Help!


----------



## mochill

bhima said:


> I'd never spend that kind of money on any headphones ($2,000). If I was going to buy a TOTL IEM, I'd probably buy the latest Flare as it too uses a Berilyum driver and most reviewers believe it is better than Campfire's offerings. Also, I don't like IEMs without big ports, or those that are not designed like small bullets--I can never get them to fit right, and without the port, I can hear my breathing too much--makes me feel like I'm under water.
> 
> 
> With regards to the Final Audio E2000 that I just received: I have to burn them in, but what I'm hearing is quite good for $40 though there is WAAAAAAYYYY too much bass currently. Hope it settles down. Also, the soundstage isn't bad for an IEM, but it does not come even close to my Shozy BK in soundstage or separation (separation issues is likely do to the overbearing midbass).


E500 then


----------



## bhima

mochill said:


> E500 then



Ehhh... no detatchable cable, its not a bullet style iem and thus, requires fiddling to get it to sit right. Not sure the SQ is up to its pricetag. The new Flares are getting extremely good reviews for a $500 IEM and check all the boxes. Obviously I'm not looking for headphones in that price range though since I'm perfectly happy with my $160 Shozy BK 

Wonder if I could pay to have them modded to have replaceable cables.


----------



## mochill

FAD E500 is bullet style and cost $20


----------



## seanc6441

WoodyLuvr said:


> About ready to pull that rotten trigger for the Smabat ST-10s but which one does me choose... 40Ω  or 150Ω?
> For only desktop usage...either 40Ω or 150Ω.
> I do have a nice dac/amp... so 150Ω.
> But I already have a pair of 150Ω ear buds... so 40Ω.
> Decisions, decisions. Help!


150ohm. Can run off most sources and can scale better with more powerful and/or higher quality amps.

Plus it's GOLD.


----------



## theresanarc

Is there any source other than the one remaining store on Ali to get Qian69's? I ordered them at the end of last month but my order has been 'closed' with no shipment for some reason. I'm really annoyed because this is really the only earbud I wanna buy atm and there only seems to be one source to get it. It says:


"Seller failed to ship your order in time. A full refund will be issued automatically to your original payment method within 3 to 20 business days. "


----------



## cyh03176

theresanarc said:


> Is there any source other than the one remaining store on Ali to get Qian69's? I ordered them at the end of last month but my order has been 'closed' with no shipment for some reason. I'm really annoyed because this is really the only earbud I wanna buy atm and there only seems to be one source to get it. It says:
> 
> 
> "Seller failed to ship your order in time. A full refund will be issued automatically to your original payment method within 3 to 20 business days. "


guess not. you might want to try taobao via a taobao agent like https://baohero.com/taobao-agent-nz

good luck


----------



## willyboyaudio

Hi all..just took delivery of my new Sabia V7..
I've been building budget DIY earbuds and giving them out to friends, so it's nice to have a benchmark in the price range..


----------



## Jsingh4

Can someone not demo the sound of different buds and then post


----------



## RobinFood

Jsingh4 said:


> Can someone not demo the sound of different buds and then post



I think you just did...
I'm not sure what you mean though.


----------



## Jsingh4 (Apr 10, 2020)

RobinFood said:


> I think you just did...
> I'm not sure what you mean though.


Like to record the sound from different buds

Something like -


----------



## GREQ

Jsingh4 said:


> Like to record the sound from different buds
> 
> Something like -



This is almost impossible to do with earbuds.
There just aren't any reliable systems available to make consistent recordings.
I have tried many times to make measurements of earbuds with the miniDSP EARS, and it's a huge pain.
Measurements vary wildly even with tiny adjustments.

Earbuds are already the most subjective audio reproduction tool around due to the variances in our ear anatomy and the variances in foam people are using to keep the bud in-place and tuned to taste, so there just ins't any realistic demand for these kinds of reviews/demos.

I think it's fair to assume that most buds that use the same shell and driver-cap/acoustic-lens, often share characteristics.
So if you like one MX500 based-bud (for example), you're likely to enjoy a few others, provided there are quality drivers inside.


----------



## waynes world

willyboyaudio said:


> Hi all..just took delivery of my new Sabia V7..
> I've been building budget DIY earbuds and giving them out to friends, so it's nice to have a benchmark in the price range..



Congrats! Love the V7's


----------



## WoodyLuvr

seanc6441 said:


> 150ohm. Can run off most sources and can scale better with more powerful and/or higher quality amps.
> Plus it's GOLD.


Gold it is then... Smabat ST-10s 150Ω ordered!


----------



## BrunoC

Damn. The Sabia V7 is sold out. 

I'm listening right now to the Sabia V6 and it's very very good. Exciting listen, quality sound from top to bottom. One of my best earbuds for sure.
I wonder how's the V7's signature and sound quality.


----------



## golov17

Earbuds forever


----------



## seanc6441

golov17 said:


> Earbuds forever


I see you have the Shozy SG, is it similar in sound to the BK or Cygnus?


----------



## waynes world

BrunoC said:


> Damn. The Sabia V7 is sold out.
> 
> I'm listening right now to the Sabia V6 and it's very very good. Exciting listen, quality sound from top to bottom. One of my best earbuds for sure.
> I wonder how's the V7's signature and sound quality.



I haven't listened to them side by side for a while, but the V6 and V7 are very similar and tbh, my non-golden ears have a hard time differentiating them. So be happy with your V6 until the V7 is available again!


----------



## Carrow

Crossposting from EA but: Anyone here know where I can procure some rings for the Sony MDR-E434, or ones that provide an equivalent fit? Vintage buds I lost the original rings for, and they help with the fit - anything that would fit the earbud diameter will do, thanks


----------



## golov17

seanc6441 said:


> I see you have the Shozy SG, is it similar in sound to the BK or Cygnus?


another beast, the most detailed, with a great middle, but not as much bass as BK.  But for vocals, I prefer them in my forehead time of all Shozy


----------



## snowmind

Is the EMX500 still the king of the budget?


----------



## Hnd1710 (Apr 13, 2020)

twister6 said:


> Well, I'm not a big fan of earbuds, the fit, the fiddling to get the sound right, just not my cup of tea.  BUT, got a surprise from Wild Lee.  Actually received some masks from him (he is offering free masks with every VE order), and he also included VE Sun Dice for me to check it out.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe I'm a noob when it comes to earbuds, only have Monk and Zen, but how is it possible for a pair of earbuds with a single DD to sound that good?!? Wide soundstage and a naturally balanced sound sig with a clarity, transparency, resolution, and layering I’m used to hearing from higher end IEMs; and with the right fit and selection of cover pads (using the sponge pad without a donut hole) the bass is there, a little north of neutral and quite articulate. I’m not a big fan of earbuds, but have to make an exception here.  Btw, also got BIE mmcx, but didn't get to it yet.  Still fascinated with Sun Dice.  And apparently they also have Sun Copper version too?


Waiting for a review from you


----------



## Promenadeplatz (Apr 14, 2020)

I take the golden 10s too.


----------



## twister6

Hnd1710 said:


> Waiting for a review from you



Hopefully soon, and will probably get a chance to compare it to Copper edition as well


----------



## bhima

So I burned in the Final E2000 iems and the bass has tightened up some. Detail is decent for female vocals, and soundstage is good for an iem. Bass is still too elevated and male vocals/cellos are not placed properly in front. Its not really a veil, it just feels like that part of the midrange is further back than it should be. For iems, they are the most comfortable both for their size and the fact they are ported in the back--reducing isolation but also reduces the underwater breathing effect I hate. Definitely worth $40, and will be good for sleeping but they do not compare to my Shozy BKs in any way but bass slam--even though there is a huge price disparity.


Will lurk more to see how those smabat s10 sound as I look to find a BK successor with detachable cables.


----------



## golov17

Carrow said:


> Crossposting from EA but: Anyone here know where I can procure some rings for the Sony MDR-E434, or ones that provide an equivalent fit? Vintage buds I lost the original rings for, and they help with the fit - anything that would fit the earbud diameter will do, thanks


#Aliexpress US $4.25  15%OFF | Earphone ear pads Rubber ring of headset size 14.5mm
https://a.aliexpress.ru/_eOyfLd


----------



## gazzington

Hi all. I've been out of the earbuds world for a while and been in the world of expensive world of iems!  What have I missed in a year or so?


----------



## golov17

gazzington said:


> Hi all. I've been out of the earbuds world for a while and been in the world of expensive world of iems!  What have I missed in a year or so?


Simphonio Dragon SWD3, Rose Maria, Shozy SG, Smabat ST-10S two version


----------



## gazzington

golov17 said:


> Simphonio Dragon SWD3, Rose Maria, Shozy SG, Smabat ST-10S two version


Thanks mate. Which are best for multi genre listening?  Wow they are so much cheaper than iems


----------



## Promenadeplatz

Is the gap in terms of purely SQ between those Smabat ST-10 and a similar priced IEM really noticeable?


----------



## golov17

forgot about Turandot from JimNiceHCK


----------



## gazzington

golov17 said:


> forgot about Turandot from JimNiceHCK


Which do you recommend?


----------



## golov17

gazzington said:


> Which do you recommend?


SWD3 firstly


----------



## gazzington

golov17 said:


> SWD3 firstly


After iems I love the prices of earbuds


----------



## Promenadeplatz

Promenadeplatz said:


> I take the golden 10s too.



I cancel my order until I read some review and other fresh impressions of V2 's. I tend now towards Shozy BK than Smabat.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Promenadeplatz said:


> I cancel my order until I read some review and other fresh impressions of V2 's. I tend now towards Shozy BK than Smabat.


Could you send link review of Smabat ST-10S?


----------



## Promenadeplatz (Apr 14, 2020)

Haven't seen any so far.

Be aware, the seller I was ordering from in AliExpress writes "Sambat" as the name of the manfucturer, not Smabat. At the end this could be a fake therefore the cheap prices .... isnt it? .... or might be just a typo?


----------



## rkw

Promenadeplatz said:


> Be aware, the seller I was ordering from in AliExpress writes "Sambat" as the name of the manfucturer, not Smabat. At the end this could be a fake therefore the cheap prices .... isnt it? .... or might be just a typo?


How is it spelled in the photos?


----------



## Promenadeplatz

rkw said:


> How is it spelled in the photos?


In the item description, it says Sambat, not Smabat.


----------



## waynes world

gazzington said:


> Hi all. I've been out of the earbuds world for a while and been in the world of expensive world of iems!  What have I missed in a year or so?



A lot of money?


----------



## gazzington

waynes world said:


> A lot of money?


Lol your right. Iems and and daps are very expensive. Need to sell a few daps and go back to earbuds


----------



## rkw

Promenadeplatz said:


> In the item description, it says Sambat, not Smabat.


Yes, you said that already. I asked about the photo. What does the photo show? If the photo shows Smabat then the description may be a typo.


----------



## bhima

golov17 said:


> Simphonio Dragon SWD3, Rose Maria, Shozy SG, Smabat ST-10S two version


Hey Golov,

Do you know what size the actual part that goes into your ear is on the Rose Maria? I'm somewhat interested, but I realize I am pretty limited on earbud comfort.


----------



## golov17 (Apr 14, 2020)

bhima said:


> Hey Golov,
> 
> Do you know what size the actual part that goes into your ear is on the Rose Maria? I'm somewhat interested, but I realize I am pretty limited on earbud comfort.


Have you tried on a Masya or Mojito fit?


----------



## ClieOS

My gold and silver ST-10s just reached the forwarding warehouse. With any luck, I'll see that in about 2 weeks.


----------



## jenkinsontherun

Can someone please recommend an earbud suitable for long listening sessions?
This means:
-no peaky treble, maybe slightly rolled off
-sounds good without foam
-small and light form factor

I am willing to spend $150 usd.

I was looking to get the ST-10s, but heard they were big, and that they were to be worn with foam .

Any help is appreicated!


----------



## superuser1

ClieOS said:


> My gold and silver ST-10s just reached the forwarding warehouse. With any luck, I'll see that in about 2 weeks.


Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## golov17

jenkinsontherun said:


> Can someone please recommend an earbud suitable for long listening sessions?
> This means:
> -no peaky treble, maybe slightly rolled off
> -sounds good without foam
> ...


#Aliexpress US $160.87  22%OFF | SHOZY Stardust BK (Black) High Fidelity Quality Hi-Fi Earphones Earbuds 2.5mm/3.5mm Connector Balanced Output For HIFI player
https://a.aliexpress.ru/_eMbRnl


----------



## jenkinsontherun

golov17 said:


> #Aliexpress US $160.87  22%OFF | SHOZY Stardust BK (Black) High Fidelity Quality Hi-Fi Earphones Earbuds 2.5mm/3.5mm Connector Balanced Output For HIFI player
> https://a.aliexpress.ru/_eMbRnl


Thanks man


----------



## Promenadeplatz

bhima said:


> Ok ya'll, be prepared for a wall of text because, here comes my
> *HEADPHONE SHOWDOWN
> 
> 
> ...



Do you remeber which was the amp you used to the AKG please?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

ClieOS said:


> My gold and silver ST-10s just reached the forwarding warehouse. With any luck, I'll see that in about 2 weeks.


Me too! Maybe delivery tomorrow or Friday.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 15, 2020)

jenkinsontherun said:


> Can someone please recommend an earbud suitable for long listening sessions?
> This means:
> -no peaky treble, maybe slightly rolled off
> -sounds good without foam
> ...


You might also consider *CrystalCore Audio*... a Thai owned mobile audiophile enthusiast company. My Kryptonites are small shelled, extremely comfortable with or without foam, and offer very,very long-listening, non-fatiguing sound... even better than my PureSounds PS100-600S ear buds! You can read my post about them *here*. If interested you can easily and painlessly order a pair via *Sound Proof Brothers *(great guys and they speak English).


----------



## bhima

Promenadeplatz said:


> Do you remeber which was the amp you used to the AKG please?


I'm using the Fiio Alpen 2 (E17K).


----------



## bhima

golov17 said:


> Have you tried on a Masya or Mojito fit?



Wow, thanks for this. Smaller than the MX500 shell it looks like. Can you put it up to a documo? Also, do you have the Shozy BKs? If not, you need to get them so you can start comparing all the other buds you buy to them--then I will know which others to get haha!


----------



## bhima

jenkinsontherun said:


> Thanks man


Just be aware--my pair of BKs were a bit shouty in the upper midrange for about 100 hours. They have completely been tamed of this problem, and they are now my absolute preferred headphones to use. I like them more than the AKG K7XX because their portrayal of string instruments are insanely accurate imo. Soundstage is pretty decent too. Its one flaw is that the bass can be a little too bloated--not very quick to attack. Its not bleeding into the other frequencies, but its just not as tight and precise as the rest of the frequency range.


----------



## mochill

:'( a great member of the community , your sure will be missed and hope you are at peace and hope no one else suffers


----------



## bhima

Dang, not the Panda. He is an integral piece to this community--which means he is likely an even much more important to those close to him. Very sad news indeed.


----------



## mochill

bhima said:


> Dang, not the Panda. He is an integral piece to this community--which means he is likely an even much more important to those close to him. Very sad news indeed.


I know


----------



## Carrow

That's horrible news. RIP @HungryPanda


----------



## RobinFood

Very sad news 
RIP @HungryPanda , you will be missed.


----------



## ClieOS

RIP @HungryPanda. My condolences @mbwilson111


----------



## KevDzn

RIP @HungryPanda. You will be missed. My deepest condolences @mbwilson111


----------



## assassin10000

Oh no. @HungryPanda you will be missed. A very helpful person and a great part of this community. RIP.

@mbwilson111 my condolences.


----------



## superuser1

My God!! @HungryPanda I cant believe it. My heartfelt and deepest condolences to @mbwilson111 
We have lost a wonderful soul. Rest in peace!!


----------



## jibberish

Oh my goodness.  Shocking and horrible news. I always appreciated his friendly advice and passion for gear, including his own creations.

My thoughts are with mbwilson111, and the rest of their family and friends.


----------



## golov17

RIP


----------



## gazzington

Rip hungry panda.  Really nice man and always helpful to others on here. Condolences to his family


----------



## rkw

Sad news. Rest in peace, @HungryPanda. Condolences to @mbwilson111, family and friends.


----------



## tendou

Very sad news. Hungrypanda.
Condolences mbwilson1111


----------



## purplesun

Condolences to mbwilson111.
RIP hungrypanda, you will be missed.


----------



## somth5016

RIP @HungryPanda.
My condolences @mbwilson111.


----------



## j4100

This is so sad. Hard to believe. 

Sincere condolences @mbwilson111


----------



## GREQ




----------



## purplesun

mbwilson111
I (likely, we) am concerned about your well-being.
In your own time, be it weeks or months, please let us know that you are ok.
Take care, and my deepest condolences for your loss.


----------



## cqtek

Ohh!
I just read this terrible news, which has left me cold. I have sick friends and family, even in the ICU. But I'm confident they'll recover.
But this is really very bad news.
It's very difficult to write anything...
@mbwilson111, I wish you my deepest condolences, at this difficult time.
Please protect yourself very much.


----------



## snip3r77

RIP @HungryPanda.
My condolences @mbwilson111. 

I'm sorry for what has happened. Stay strong!


----------



## Danneq

Damn it! Came here to check up on the thread for the first time in over 1 month and see the terrible news about HungryPanda.

It f*cking sucks!

Hope you are all doing well!

(no new earbuds for me since SWD2+ (?) over 1 year ago...)


----------



## Jsingh4




----------



## Fabi




----------



## ValSilva

My condolences @mbwilson111
Really sad to hear that.


----------



## Narayan23

This is heartbreaking news, Thomas / HungryPanda was an integral part of this community and as strange as it might seem I was always glad when I saw his avatar (the same goes for mbwilson111) in the same way you´re happy when you see your friends / acquaintances when you meet them in person, he made this a friendlier place and I will miss him. My heartfelt condolendces mbwilson111, just know that you´re very much appreciated here, don´t hessitate to shoot me a pm if you read this and need to talk, lots of love.


----------



## Carrow

@mbwilson111 We may only be fellow earbud aficionados but we're here for you if you need us. Sending love and support.


----------



## defbear




----------



## willyboyaudio

@mbwilson111 Deep condolences for your loss. You both have given much to this community, and I (we) hope that our expression of sympathy gives you some comfort in knowing that you have friends who care about you during this difficult time. Take care!


----------



## Jsingh4

RIP @HungryPanda condolences @mbwilson111


----------



## capnjack

R I P @HungryPanda  our thoughts are with @mbwilson111 at this sad time.


----------



## theoutsider (Apr 18, 2020)

RIP Hungry Panda    

My heartfelt condolences go out to you and your family @mbwilson111


----------



## Otto Motor

*The craftsmanship of the HungyPanda I:* the HungryPanda EMX500. It uses a Fengru LCK1308 15.4 mm driver @ 32 ohm and is kept in the Panda colours: black and white. March 2019 model.


----------



## vygas

My condolences go out to @mbwilson111, we can only wish the best for you and your close ones going forwards, we hope you stay safe during these hard times.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 19, 2020)

*HUNGRYPANDA SPECIAL EDITION?*

I thought a HungryPanda earphone, or even better, an earbud, would be a good idea to commemorate Tom. I was asking around and Shozy are considering a HungryPanda Special Edition of either their Shozy zero or Shozy v33 models...laser engraved. OK, these are not earbuds, but this is still the right thread for it as Tom was spending a lot of time here.

Shozy is a reputable HK company.

The issues I see:

1. These models at $50 and $75 (regular issue) respectively, so not cheap to begin with - and not everybody can afford them.

2. I would like to see some of the money going to a covid-19 charity...I am a non-profit guy.

UPDATE: Shozy would commit to charity but they need a certain quantity to make this happen.



Suggestions welcome! Also per pm.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Otto Motor said:


> *HUNGRYPANDA SPECIAL EDITION?*
> Suggestions welcome! Also per pm.


A grand idea!
Another company to consider contacting would be NiceHCK as Tom very much did like Jim and thought well of many of his ear bud models which are also much more modestly priced.


----------



## mbwilson111

Has anyone told Jim?


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 20, 2020)

mbwilson111 said:


> Has anyone told Jim?


I tried and will try again.

UPDATE: I just sent a detailed message to Jim. I was asking for a black and white earbud ("Panda" colour) that is affordable...and that some money should go to charity.

ANOTHER UPDATE:  I wonder whether Jim is still the front guy at NiceHCK. My messages were read but I didn't receive a reply...which is weird.

I put the Shozy idea on hold. These guys are very nice and understanding.


----------



## DrKemikaru

I got FAAEAl Iris - Commemorative Edition yesterday.



First impressions:
Pleasant bass with a good "punch"
Emphasis on upper middle and HF - bright sound
Imaginary scene is wide, but not deep (typical problem)
Good separation of instruments

Full review will be later.

P.s. Rest In Peace, @HungryPanda, we not forget You. Condolences to @mbwilson111.


----------



## thesoundandthefury

My first serious entry into the earbud world arrived today... and frankly im a little underwhelmed. Maybe my standards were set to high after having listened to my Pinnacle P1 for a year.The only earbuds I've owned before were the VE monks+ and the Faalael something-or-rather. 

I bought a Moondrop ShiroYuki (not expecting much) and the Smabat M1 (expecting a big upgrade from the yuki, and a small downgrade from the p1).

For its price the yuki is very impressive. But the $10 yuki and the $65 Smabat sound almost identical. Compared to the p1 they are hugely lacking in clarity, separation and imaging. The loss of detail when shifting between the P1 to the earbuds sounds almost like listening to something in FLAC then listening to it on 144p on youtube. I really hoped the earbuds soundstage would be a greatly redeeming quality but frankly the size feels about the same as the P1 while their lack of clear layering makes music feel significantly less 3D and immersive 

These were tested with high res files on sony xperia z3 and portege laptop. All that being said, they've only burned in for a couple hours and I hope to see some improvements later on. 

Would a $200 earbud like the dragon+ be significantly better competition against my p1 or should I stop here and avoid future disappointment?


----------



## RobinFood

thesoundandthefury said:


> My first serious entry into the earbud world arrived today... and frankly im a little underwhelmed. Maybe my standards were set to high after having listened to my Pinnacle P1 for a year.The only earbuds I've owned before were the VE monks+ and the Faalael something-or-rather.
> 
> I bought a Moondrop ShiroYuki (not expecting much) and the Smabat M1 (expecting a big upgrade from the yuki, and a small downgrade from the p1).
> 
> ...



IEMs and earbuds are hard to switch between. You will always be disappointed coming from one and going to the other suddenly. Overall, IEMs tend to have better bass and better imaging, but a much more narrow soundstage and less comfort. It's usually a good idea to listen to them for a week or two straight, and then go back to the P1 for a better assessment without any bias.

That out of the way, most earbuds have a very soft imaging compared to IEMs, and if you listen in noisy environments you will lose some detail.

The most expensive I tried though, the Smabat ST-10 (90-100$), the Moondrop Liebeslied and Chaconne(350$), and the ATH-CM20000Ti (500$) all have amazing imaging and soundstage that I find rivals my best IEMs. Anything lower in my collection I found has a fuzzier imaging and sound, but even with a fuzzy imaging, I found the Willsound buds to have great resolution. I have the MK2, with shipping they are about 55$


----------



## WoodyLuvr

thesoundandthefury said:


> My first serious entry into the earbud world arrived today... and frankly im a little underwhelmed. Maybe my standards were set to high after having listened to my Pinnacle P1 for a year.The only earbuds I've owned before were the VE monks+ and the Faalael something-or-rather.
> 
> These were tested with high res files on sony xperia z3 and portege laptop. All that being said, they've only burned in for a couple hours and I hope to see some improvements later on.





RobinFood said:


> IEMs and earbuds are hard to switch between. You will always be disappointed coming from one and going to the other suddenly. Overall, IEMs tend to have better bass and better imaging, but a much more narrow soundstage and less comfort. It's usually a good idea to listen to them for a week or two straight, and then go back to the P1 for a better assessment without any bias.


Concur completely with @RobinFood  You definitely need to give it a few days for your ears to adjust to a very different sound signature presentation. Personally, I always found it much easier to go between my earbuds and open back headphones than to an IEM or a closed back. Once you figure out the best fitting/setting, with or without foams, you'll soon see that earbuds although with less bass do offer a much wider soundstage with improved timbre and separation... and via a much more comfortable, cooler, and long listening package.


----------



## ClieOS

RobinFood said:


> ...and the ATH-CM20000Ti...


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 20, 2020)

ClieOS said:


>


*Audio-Technica "Iron Triangle" ATH-CM2000TI*




The line also offers an IEM model* (Audio-Technica "Iron Triangle" ATH-CK2000TI)*


----------



## ClieOS

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Audio-Technica "Iron Triangle" ATH-CM2000TI*



You didn't get the joke...


----------



## WoodyLuvr

ClieOS said:


> You didn't get the joke...


Apologies mate... are they awful sounding?


----------



## RobinFood

WoodyLuvr said:


> Apologies mate... are they awful sounding?



They sound good and imo have great depth imaging, but definitely not 500$ good. At 200$ though they would be very tempting.


----------



## ClieOS

WoodyLuvr said:


> Apologies mate... are they awful sounding?



I don't know actually, since no one but @RobinFood has heard the yet-to-be-released ATH-CM2*0000*Ti


----------



## RobinFood

ClieOS said:


> I don't know actually, since no one but @RobinFood has heard the yet-to-be-released ATH-CM2*0000*Ti



I completely missed it the entire time!
Check yourself before you wreck yourself.


----------



## wskl

ISN Audio Rambo II, if you buy before 1st May you also get the ISN C4 cable for free.

https://penonaudio.com/isn-audio-rambo-ii.html


----------



## groucho69

*(Panda Bamboo) Flagship Audio Technica Iron Triangle ATH-CM2000TI CK2000TI*
Availability: 188 In stock   SKU NO: 585721842830

USD 457.05

https://www.chinahao.com/product/585721842830/


----------



## snowmind

I think the trump card and the victory in the earbuds hobby is the fact that we can get a magnificent sound benefit in exchange for little money.

I am seeing the level increase and the quality does not keep up with costs, so there are some frustrations. That's just an observation ... Good auditions


----------



## thesoundandthefury

snowmind said:


> I think the trump card and the victory in the earbuds hobby is the fact that we can get a magnificent sound benefit in exchange for little money.
> 
> I am seeing the level increase and the quality does not keep up with costs, so there are some frustrations. That's just an observation ... Good auditions



If a $50 *iem* sounds x3 as good as a a $2 one, and a $200 one sounds x2 as good as that, and then (i'm only speculating at this point a $1000 might be x2 as good as the $200 one
How might a rough scale of diminishing returns plot out for* earbuds*?


----------



## thesoundandthefury

thesoundandthefury said:


> If a $50 *iem* sounds x3 as good as a a $2 one, and a $200 one sounds x2 as good as that, and then (i'm only speculating at this point a $1000 might be x2 as good as the $200 one
> How might a rough scale of diminishing returns plot out for* earbuds*?


P.S. assuming each purchase is a good one, and you're buying one of the best options in each pricerange


----------



## chinmie

thesoundandthefury said:


> If a $50 *iem* sounds x3 as good as a a $2 one, and a $200 one sounds x2 as good as that, and then (i'm only speculating at this point a $1000 might be x2 as good as the $200 one
> How might a rough scale of diminishing returns plot out for* earbuds*?



from my view, i think the sweet spot for earbuds is in the 20-30 usd range for the best bang for the buck ratio.


----------



## CT007 (Apr 20, 2020)

RobinFood said:


> The most expensive I tried though, the *Smabat ST-10* (90-100$)... all have amazing imaging and soundstage that I find rivals my best IEMs


Have you tried *Yincrow RW-1000*? I am looking for the best earbud up to ~$100. Big, natural soundstage, strong imaging, clean details, balanced overall signature, non-fatiguing.


----------



## RobinFood

CT007 said:


> Have you tried *Yincrow RW-1000*? I am looking for the best earbud up to ~$100. Big, natural soundstage, strong imaging, clean details, balanced overall signature, non-fatiguing.



Sorry, I haven't tried it. Most of what I try is whatever makes it to the earphone stores here in Japan, or whatever I didn't mind losing money on from Aliexpress. 
I can say though that I absolutely love everything about my Smabat ST-10, so much so that I basically stopped buying earbuds shortly after, and didn't consider the higher priced earbuds worth buying after auditioning them next to one another. It might be a little fatiguing, because it sounds rather cold with a sub-bass lift, but the sound is clean and gives excellent imaging and soundstage.


----------



## jenkinsontherun

wskl said:


> ISN Audio Rambo II, if you buy before 1st May you also get the ISN C4 cable for free.
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/isn-audio-rambo-ii.html


The bell shape looks comfortable akin to the E100.  Although there is significant bulk behind the driver.  Shirt clips may help with this earbud.


----------



## noknok23

jenkinsontherun said:


> The bell shape looks comfortable akin to the E100.  Although there is significant bulk behind the driver.  Shirt clips may help with this earbud.


With the free cable it's a really good deal but I just bought willsound mk32 already (which is pretty nice)


----------



## thesoundandthefury

I'll post some thoughts about my smabat / yuki after a longer trial, hopefully they'll grow on me. 



chinmie said:


> from my view, i think the sweet spot for earbuds is in the 20-30 usd range for the best bang for the buck ratio.



Can a $200 TOTL earbud really compete against the same standards of a $200 TOTL iem? Or are most expensive earbuds mainly marketed towards niche earbud-enthusiasts who might be happy to pay an extra hundred dollars for only nuanced differences that a non-earbud-collector might not really appreciate? 

I've heard a few people here say that while buds might fall short on some things, they should blow any iem out of the water in terms of soundstage. But now I'm starting to wonder whether they're excluding certain iems  ( P1, MDR-7550/800ST, etc) out of that competition...


----------



## jenkinsontherun

thesoundandthefury said:


> I'll post some thoughts about my smabat / yuki after a longer trial, hopefully they'll grow on me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think there's inherent pros and cons for each.  For example, we must give credit to the lightweight, open nature of an earbud, even if the scenario which requires such a configuration is not frequent.  For example, construction workers may want earbuds to listen to their surroundings, and they can't wear headphones over their hats.


----------



## thesoundandthefury

jenkinsontherun said:


> I think there's inherent pros and cons for each.  For example, we must give credit to the lightweight, open nature of an earbud, even if the scenario which requires such a configuration is not frequent.  For example, construction workers may want earbuds to listen to their surroundings, and they can't wear headphones over their hats.


I totally agree thats a big plus for earbuds - its the main reason I'm interested in buying them. However, I'm wondering how much sound quality (in the $150 - $300 range) is necessarily sacrificed for the bonus of comfort and environmentally-specific usability?


----------



## RobinFood

thesoundandthefury said:


> I totally agree thats a big plus for earbuds - its the main reason I'm interested in buying them. However, I'm wondering how much sound quality (in the $150 - $300 range) is necessarily sacrificed for the bonus of comfort and environmentally-specific usability?



Sound quality is so subjective that is hard to answer.

I like the soundstage and imaging better on my Smabat ST-10 (90-100$) than on my ER4XR (350$)
I like the timber better on the ER4XR though.
They are both about as detailed and can retrieve about the same amount of details to my ear.

My favorite sound presentation out of all gear though still goes to the first expensive IEM I bought, the ATH-CKR70 (90$), which got terrible reviews by everyone but me. I still think they sound absolutely amazing. Best horizontal imaging and separation I have ever heard, with an emphasis on female vocals, but the ST-10 has better vertical and depth imaging. 

The thing that really kills IEMs for me these days is how microphonic the cables are. I can't enjoy the music when I hear that grating sound every time I move my head. I know all the tricks to stop microphonics, but at the end of the day it feels like such a chore. Earbuds have a lot less problems with microphonics.


----------



## chinmie

thesoundandthefury said:


> I'll post some thoughts about my smabat / yuki after a longer trial, hopefully they'll grow on me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



for comparison, it is closer for earbuds to headphones in nature than comparing them to IEMs. 
like @RobinFood had mentioned a few post earlier, usually jumping straight from IEM to earbuds (or vice versa) in a single listening session would be drastic. jumping from headphone to earbuds, while there would still be differences, it would not be so drastic. 

200 dollars TOTL earbuds can definitely compare to TOTL headphones and IEM in technicalities. 
well, to be fair, 200 dollars in the IEMs and headphones world is hardly TOTL at all...that would be in the thousands of dollars price bracket. 
TOTL earbuds when compared to the lower tier earbuds, the difference is in refinement of sound. if you can notice the difference and can't stop thinking about it, then it would be a worthy purchase. 

one thing to mind though... price is definitely not a sure sign of sound superiority, and also matching to your personal preference . I've heard some in the thousand dollars range that i don't like.


----------



## CT007 (Apr 25, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> 'Yincrow RW-1000 Bass Enhanced Edition'


"RW-1000 low frequency enhanced version" https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=603651445555 (Could not find on Aliexpress yet, and appears sold out at Taobao[or I don't know how to order lol - help!])

Looks like 4 versions of Yincrow RW-1000:
*3.5mm
4.4mm* balanced
*2.5mm* balanced
"*low frequency enhanced version*" (3.5mm, I was told)

I'm guessing this is the product ad for it, with the "bass = *音*" symbol:





*Apparently the Aliexpress seller "LuckLZ" has this edition, after requesting it - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000412299257.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.1e654c4dJwS0Mi

Will confirm(or try to?) when it arrives.


----------



## jenkinsontherun

chinmie said:


> for comparison, it is closer for earbuds to headphones in nature than comparing them to IEMs.
> like @RobinFood had mentioned a few post earlier, usually jumping straight from IEM to earbuds (or vice versa) in a single listening session would be drastic. jumping from headphone to earbuds, while there would still be differences, it would not be so drastic.
> 
> 200 dollars TOTL earbuds can definitely compare to TOTL headphones and IEM in technicalities.
> ...


We can also note the margin of error in IEMs is high in that price bracket as well.  There are many more "spoiled" IEMs in regard to build quality, tonality, or technicalities than there are earbuds in that price.  More or less, if you pick any $200 earbud, you're going to like it, whereas, with IEMs, it's maybe 50/50 chance lol.

However, this does not compare IEMs with earbuds.  It plays on the fact that we perhaps expect less detail on an earbud, and as a result are content with that result.  It's a great discussion topic nonetheless.


----------



## thesoundandthefury

jenkinsontherun said:


> It plays on the fact that we perhaps expect less detail on an earbud, and as a result are content with that result.


 
Would I be setting myself up for disappointment if I were to drop $200 on a Turandot expecting _as much_ detail, separation and timbre as my favourite $200 iem? My inability to notice any radical difference between my $10 yuki and $65 smabat makes me wonder if I'll appreciate the difference between a $65 bud and a $200 bud?? I desperately want to find a bud that im happy with


----------



## golov17

In da house  

@thesoundandthefury btw, Turandot really have nice, detailed sound, without any problem, 14.8 ohm


----------



## ClieOS

Simphonio D3
ZEVAXY Z1000





Smabat ST-10S Black Gold
Smabat ST-10S


----------



## noknok23

thesoundandthefury said:


> Would I be setting myself up for disappointment if I were to drop $200 on a Turandot expecting _as much_ detail, separation and timbre as my favourite $200 iem? My inability to notice any radical difference between my $10 yuki and $65 smabat makes me wonder if I'll appreciate the difference between a $65 bud and a $200 bud?? I desperately want to find a bud that im happy with


Do you have a good fit with the smabat? Maybe try to play with different foams.
I'd recommend you to get the nicehck b40 before turandot to check the fit. It is cheap but uses the same shell. Some people prefer mx500 shells (like yuki) and others yuin (like Shozy Stardust, Simphonio Dragon)
Turandot and b40 have some kind of bigger yuin shell.
I personally slightly prefer my Willsound MK300 over Magaosi K5 and Ikko OH10. I believe it has better tuning and higher technicalities.
That said, most people seems to prefer IEM sound.


----------



## baskingshark

ClieOS said:


> Simphonio D3
> ZEVAXY Z1000
> 
> 
> ...



Nice!

How does the smabat st10s compare to the regular st10?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## assassin10000

noknok23 said:


> Do you have a good fit with the smabat? Maybe try to play with different foams.
> I'd recommend you to get the nicehck b40 before turandot to check the fit. It is cheap but uses the same shell. Some people prefer mx500 shells (like yuki) and others yuin (like Shozy Stardust, Simphonio Dragon)
> Turandot and b40 have some kind of bigger yuin shell.
> I personally slightly prefer my Willsound MK300 over Magaosi K5 and Ikko OH10. I believe it has better tuning and higher technicalities.
> That said, most people seems to prefer IEM sound.



B40 uses a larger pk style shell/driver than the typical yuin pk shell. 

I sold a b40 to someone that needed to replace a yuin pk1 housing that was damaged, and the driver/cover would not fit. The housing was too large.


----------



## noknok23

assassin10000 said:


> B40 uses a larger pk style shell/driver than the typical yuin pk shell.
> 
> I sold a b40 to someone that needed to replace a yuin pk1 housing that was damaged, and the driver/cover would not fit. The housing was too large.


I think Turandot use the same shell than B40, with different material. Am I wrong?


----------



## golov17

noknok23 said:


> I think Turandot use the same shell than B40, with different material. Am I wrong?


----------



## jenkinsontherun

Monk lite 120 ohm without foams sounds like hd600, tonally.


----------



## thesoundandthefury

noknok23 said:


> Do you have a good fit with the smabat?



Not great, maybe its slightly too small. The yuki feels perfect though, is the yuin / tournadot shell that different? Are there any big name brand cheap earbuds that use yuin shells? I'd prefer to just try one from a local store than wait an extra month for ali to pull through.

Otherwise are there any Totl yuin shells (with: warm/smooth/dark to neutral, lush mids, precise separation, good soundstage) that would be a huge upgrade from smabat m1?


----------



## ClieOS

baskingshark said:


> How does the smabat st10s compare to the regular st10?



Compared to ST-10, ST-10S is slightly less neutral in frequency distribution with a reduction in treble, giving a fainted sense of warmth and smooth. Soundstage has improved but mainly on layering / position - I see these more like trade-off rather than improvement, so basically they remain largely the same technically but tuned differently. So if you love the original ST-10, then perhaps ST-10S is not the direct upgrade you are looking for. But if you find ST-10 a bit too bright, then ST-10S might worth a try.

ST-10S Black Gold however is more like a fully opened up ST-10S, reminds me a lot of Sennheiser HD600. (*though I have not listened to HD600 for awhile, so takes it with a grain of salt). Between the two, I'll definitely recommend Black Gold first and I'll consider it as a proper upgrade of the original ST-10. It is harder to drive though, so you want to make sure you have a decent source first.


----------



## baskingshark

ClieOS said:


> Compared to ST-10, ST-10S is slightly less neutral in frequency distribution with a reduction in treble, giving a fainted sense of warmth and smooth. Soundstage has improved but mainly on layering / position - I see these more like trade-off rather than improvement, so basically they remain largely the same technically but tuned differently. So if you love the original ST-10, then perhaps ST-10S is not the direct upgrade you are looking for. But if you find ST-10 a bit too bright, then ST-10S might worth a try.
> 
> ST-10S Black Gold however is more like a fully opened up ST-10S, reminds me a lot of Sennheiser HD600. (*though I have not listened to HD600 for awhile, so takes it with a grain of salt). Between the two, I'll definitely recommend Black Gold first and I'll consider it as a proper upgrade of the original ST-10. It is harder to drive though, so you want to make sure you have a decent source first.



Thanks for the good info.

How is the subbass extension/quantity on the ST10S? I don't have the original ST10, but many folks here said the subbass was good for a bud.


----------



## DBaldock9 (Apr 22, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for the good info.
> 
> How is the subbass extension/quantity on the ST10S? I don't have the original ST10, but many folks here said the subbass was good for a bud.



I've got the original Svara-L (115Ω) and (32Ω) (precursors of the Smabat ST-10), and the Smabat ST-10 (45Ω).
To me, they rank in "warmth" (most -> least) like this: Svara-L (115Ω), Smabat ST-10 (45Ω), Svara-L (32Ω).
However, for an MMCX earbud that's got even more Sub-Bass, it would be the NiceHCK EBX (32Ω) - but they're not quite as comfortable in my ears.


----------



## baskingshark

DBaldock9 said:


> I've got the original Svara-L (115Ω) and (32Ω) (precursors of the Smabat ST10, and the Smabat ST-10 (45Ω).
> To me, they rank in "warmth" (most -> least) like this: Svara-L (115Ω), Smabat ST-10 (45Ω), Svara-L (32Ω).
> However, for an MMCX earbud that's got even more Sub-Bass, it would be the NiceHCK EBX (32Ω) - but they're not quite as comfortable in my ears.



Thanks for the tips. Do u know if the Svara earbuds are still being sold? Or they ain't in production anymore.


----------



## ClieOS

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for the good info.
> 
> How is the subbass extension/quantity on the ST10S? I don't have the original ST10, but many folks here said the subbass was good for a bud.



Bass remains as good, a little less impactful but better bodied.


----------



## assassin10000 (Apr 22, 2020)

thesoundandthefury said:


> Not great, maybe its slightly too small. The yuki feels perfect though, is the yuin / tournadot shell that different? Are there any big name brand cheap earbuds that use yuin shells? I'd prefer to just try one from a local store than wait an extra month for ali to pull through.
> 
> Otherwise are there any Totl yuin shells (with: warm/smooth/dark to neutral, lush mids, precise separation, good soundstage) that would be a huge upgrade from smabat m1?



The yuin & turandot shell are smaller diameter, similar to the M1 (14.8mm driver). I don't know of any cheap brand name yuin/pk buds.

The yuki that you say fits better is the larger mx500 shell (15.4mm driver).


The newer Smabat ST-10S (150ohm) may be a good choice. Maybe a willsound or k's and there are many many more 15.4mm choices available.


----------



## rkw

assassin10000 said:


> I don't know of any cheap brand name yuin/pk buds.


NiceHCK B40


----------



## assassin10000

rkw said:


> NiceHCK B40



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15572465
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15573013

B40 is a larger sized pk shaped shell of it's own. I It's not the same as any of the other yuin/pk shell buds afaik.


----------



## DBaldock9

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for the tips. Do u know if the Svara earbuds are still being sold? Or they ain't in production anymore.



I'm fairly certain that the Svara-L is no longer available on AliExpress.
I haven't checked any of the other Asian websites, that sometimes gets mentioned here. 
There's also the possibility of someone having a set on eBay.


----------



## waynes world

DBaldock9 said:


> I've got the original Svara-L (115Ω) and (32Ω) (precursors of the Smabat ST-10), and the Smabat ST-10 (45Ω).
> To me, they rank in "warmth" (most -> least) like this: Svara-L (115Ω), Smabat ST-10 (45Ω), Svara-L (32Ω).
> However, for an MMCX earbud that's got even more Sub-Bass, it would be the NiceHCK EBX (32Ω) - but they're not quite as comfortable in my ears.



I have the Svara-L (32Ω) which I love. I'm pretty sure that the Svara-L (115Ω) would be too warm for me, but your remarks still kinda make me want the Smabat ST-10 (45Ω) (or ST-10S I suppose).


----------



## siderak

Just read about Hungry Panda.
RIP brother.
I feel lucky to have run into you here.
My deepest condolences to mbwilson111


----------



## sareer007

ClieOS said:


> Bass remains as good, a little less impactful but better bodied.


Could you compare smabat st10s to yincrow rw-1000 bass enhanced edition ?


----------



## bhima

thesoundandthefury said:


> Would I be setting myself up for disappointment if I were to drop $200 on a Turandot expecting _as much_ detail, separation and timbre as my favourite $200 iem? My inability to notice any radical difference between my $10 yuki and $65 smabat makes me wonder if I'll appreciate the difference between a $65 bud and a $200 bud?? I desperately want to find a bud that im happy with



The answer is its possible, but it depends. Your sound profile that you like sounds to me like Final Audio's house sound (you should consider getting a pair if you don't have some already). I personally am not a big fan of this sound profile, as I like things to have less mid-bass and less lower midrange that makes notes too thick. I currently own the Shozy BK which is a PK shell headphone at $160. Its basically a mini-version of my AKG K7XX headphones. Obviously the soundstage isn't as large, nor is the bass as accurate in the lower regions, but it has a very similar sound signature, with great timbre and much better soundstage than any of my iems (Yamaha EPH100, Final Audio E2000). I'm not saying you should buy the Shozys, as I don't think they fit your profile, but I am saying you can find $200 earbuds that sound as good as a $200 iem--but there will be tradeoffs.


----------



## Chris674

jenkinsontherun said:


> Monk lite 120 ohm without foams sounds like hd600, tonally.


That's interesting. I've got the blue sky edition on the way. Can't wait to hear them.


----------



## ClieOS

sareer007 said:


> Could you compare smabat st10s to yincrow rw-1000 bass enhanced edition ?



ST-10S is neutral tilting toward warmth, where RW-1000 Bass is most definitely warm sounding with a rather forwarded presentation. I won't say one is technically noticeably better than the other, though RW-1000 is the more musical / funner sounding of the two where ST-10S is calmer / more matured sound.

Again however, Black Gold is better than both.


----------



## DBaldock9

waynes world said:


> I have the Svara-L (32Ω) which I love. I'm pretty sure that the Svara-L (115Ω) would be too warm for me, but your remarks still kinda make me want the Smabat ST-10 (45Ω) (or ST-10S I suppose).



I do have a set of the new Black / Gold on order. 
Looking forward to trying them.


----------



## captione

Recabled my white Vidos!


----------



## cqtek

With the amount of earbuds I have, lately I'm looking for ones, that have a lot of clarity in the middle zone, definition, but without losing sight of the lower zone. I like it to have a good amount of bass and sub bass.
I like the middle zone of the EB2, but the profile I'm looking for, is similar to the Smabat M1, but with more definition.
The new Smabat ST-10s silver are on the way, I couldn't get enough money for the gold...maybe I regret it... 
Suggestions?


----------



## RobinFood

ClieOS said:


> Simphonio D3
> ZEVAXY Z1000
> 
> 
> ...



How does the Smabat ST-10S gold compare to the DQSM Turandot?


----------



## thesoundandthefury

Can anyone comment on Campfred (1 or 2) vs Turandot?


----------



## ClieOS

RobinFood said:


> How does the Smabat ST-10S gold compare to the DQSM Turandot?



ST-10S Black Gold for reference and authority, Turandot for fun and musicality.


----------



## RobinFood

ClieOS said:


> ST-10S Black Gold for reference and authority, Turandot for fun and musicality.



Sounds like I need the new ST-10S Black Gold. Do you think the Fiio uTWS1 can power them well? 

I've been thinking of picking them up after the TRN BT20S came and had the MMCX rip out less than 24 hours in. I have a solder iron and wire strippers but I am so bad at using them I don't dare trying to fix it (I've destroyed a lot of practice cables). I somehow think Fiio will have better QC. I expect the sound to be the same though given that they use the same dac/amp chip, and they had a little bit of a hiss with my ST-10, so hopefully the higher impedence will eliminate the ground noise.


----------



## ClieOS

RobinFood said:


> Sounds like I need the new ST-10S Black Gold. Do you think the Fiio uTWS1 can power them well?
> 
> I've been thinking of picking them up after the TRN BT20S came and had the MMCX rip out less than 24 hours in. I have a solder iron and wire strippers but I am so bad at using them I don't dare trying to fix it (I've destroyed a lot of practice cables). I somehow think Fiio will have better QC. I expect the sound to be the same though given that they use the same dac/amp chip, and they had a little bit of a hiss with my ST-10, so hopefully the higher impedence will eliminate the ground noise.



TRN is the OEM for FiiO UTWS1, so hardware difference is minimum. However, I do find UTWS1 to be better than the original BT-20S on the fact that UTWS1 has much less distortion and supports TWS+ mode (*also a lesser output volume, though I already find UTWS1 enough for what I used it for, mainly Smabat M1 pro). It was however speculated that TRN changed the later production BT-20S to be closer to UTWS1, though I can't confirm it myself

You can push UTWS1 loud enough for ST-10S Black Gold, but overall performance will suffer. I'll say you are probably only getting 70~80% of what ST-10S Black Gold is capable of. Not even BTR3K's 3.5mm has the needed power and control for ST-10S Black Gold to sound at its best.


----------



## RobinFood

ClieOS said:


> TRN is the OEM for FiiO UTWS1, so hardware difference is minimum. However, I do find UTWS1 to be better than the original BT-20S on the fact that UTWS1 has much less distortion and supports TWS+ mode (*also a lesser output volume, though I already find UTWS1 enough for what I used it for, mainly Smabat M1 pro). It was however speculated that TRN changed the later production BT-20S to be closer to UTWS1, though I can't confirm it myself
> 
> You can push UTWS1 loud enough for ST-10S Black Gold, but overall performance will suffer. I'll say you are probably only getting 70~80% of what ST-10S Black Gold is capable of. Not even BTR3K's 3.5mm has the needed power and control for ST-10S Black Gold to sound at its best.



Oh, that is too bad. I have a 150 ohm bud (pureson) and I think I know how it would sound on the UTWS1. The Pureson bud I have only sounds "right" when running on the Earstudio in 2X balance mode, the highs just don't come out otherwise.

Do you think the build quality on the UTWS is better than on the BT-20S? The pictures make it look more premium, but it comes out to almost double price locally, and I don't think I will be going Aliexpress after my last try. I might get it for my original ST-10 if it has less ground-noise.

Actually, speaking crazy, but how do you think it would do with an 8 ohm balanced armature driver?


----------



## ClieOS

RobinFood said:


> Oh, that is too bad. I have a 150 ohm bud (pureson) and I think I know how it would sound on the UTWS1. The Pureson bud I have only sounds "right" when running on the Earstudio in 2X balance mode, the highs just don't come out otherwise.
> 
> Do you think the build quality on the UTWS is better than on the BT-20S? The pictures make it look more premium, but it comes out to almost double price locally, and I don't think I will be going Aliexpress after my last try. I might get it for my original ST-10 if it has less ground-noise.
> 
> Actually, speaking crazy, but how do you think it would do with an 8 ohm balanced armature driver?



UTWS1 does have a better MMCX connector (more akin to FiiO design), otherwise the rest is about the same. I personally won't use UTWS1 or BT-20S with anything out of the normal 16 ~ 32 ohm range, and will keep it to a single driver.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Does FAAEAL make good earbuds? Planning on getting the Litz copper cable from them on the coming sale "Refresh and recharge" on Aliexpress and might want to pick up 1 or 2 buds from them. 

Currently I have the Ve Monk lite (also had Plus), HE 150pro and the Moondrop Nameless. Nameless is the only one I like out of them.


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> Does FAAEAL make good earbuds? Planning on getting the Litz copper cable from them on the coming sale "Refresh and recharge" on Aliexpress and might want to pick up 1 or 2 buds from them.
> 
> Currently I have the Ve Monk lite (also had Plus), HE 150pro and the Moondrop Nameless. Nameless is the only one I like out of them.



Well they are more famous for buds than their IEMs, in fact their recent IEM the Hibiscus had mixed reviews.

I have their FAAEAL Datura Pro, supposedly their flagship bud, and I find it not bad, midcentric, great for vocals. Not for bassheads/trebleheads. But at that pricing, there are some other buds that I prefer more like BK2, which are more all rounder. Haven't tried their other buds though.


----------



## Hououin Kyouma

RikudouGoku said:


> Does FAAEAL make good earbuds? Planning on getting the Litz copper cable from them on the coming sale "Refresh and recharge" on Aliexpress and might want to pick up 1 or 2 buds from them.
> 
> Currently I have the Ve Monk lite (also had Plus), HE 150pro and the Moondrop Nameless. Nameless is the only one I like out of them.


Try FAAEAL Snow-lotus 2.5mm Balanced
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32889629399.html
It's the best FAAEAL earbuds. I have a pair of their "flagship" Datura Pro but bruh imho my 6$ FAAEAL iris 2.0 is better and the sl 2.5mm balanced is MUCH better


----------



## sanjaycr

Jazz, bass lover, live orchestra, running/source out of mobile phone and a 6th gen iPod classic, please recommend one of the below smabat st10, turandor, shozy bg, shozy pk, if amp is a must then I do have e1DA Powerdac V2


----------



## ClieOS

sanjaycr said:


> Jazz, bass lover, live orchestra, running/source out of mobile phone and a 6th gen iPod classic, please recommend one of the below smabat st10, turandor, shozy bg, shozy pk, if amp is a must then I do have e1DA Powerdac V2



That particular DAC/amp is going to drain your smartphone pretty quickly (unless you use a splitter to power it up externally) and it won't run from your iPod, so you might want to take that into your consideration.


----------



## sanjaycr

ClieOS said:


> That particular DAC/amp is going to drain your smartphone pretty quickly (unless you use a splitter to power it up externally) and it won't run from your iPod, so you might want to take that into your consideration.


I agree, hence I look for non-power hungry recommendations please to be able to use from phone directly.


----------



## captione

RikudouGoku said:


> Does FAAEAL make good earbuds? Planning on getting the Litz copper cable from them on the coming sale "Refresh and recharge" on Aliexpress and might want to pick up 1 or 2 buds from them.
> 
> Currently I have the Ve Monk lite (also had Plus), HE 150pro and the Moondrop Nameless. Nameless is the only one I like out of them.


They make some really good earbuds, but sometimes alot of their models comes with a hit or a miss, like their Snow Lotus 1.0, which I had a bad experience with. 
I've only tried that, Iris 1.0 and the SL 1.0+ which are both insanely good. Iris had the nicest bass texture among my collection, but the SL 1.0+ does that with more clarity in the signature.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Hououin Kyouma said:


> Try FAAEAL Snow-lotus 2.5mm Balanced
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32889629399.html
> It's the best FAAEAL earbuds. I have a pair of their "flagship" Datura Pro but bruh imho my 6$ FAAEAL iris 2.0 is better and the sl 2.5mm balanced is MUCH better





captione said:


> They make some really good earbuds, but sometimes alot of their models comes with a hit or a miss, like their Snow Lotus 1.0, which I had a bad experience with.
> I've only tried that, Iris 1.0 and the SL 1.0+ which are both insanely good. Iris had the nicest bass texture among my collection, but the SL 1.0+ does that with more clarity in the signature.


I see, seems that the SL is the best then, guess the rosemary is worse? Also there is 4 different versions of the SL and the 2,5mm balanced is double the price but is it the best of them?


----------



## Hououin Kyouma

RikudouGoku said:


> I see, seems that the SL is the best then, guess the rosemary is worse? Also there is 4 different versions of the SL and the 2,5mm balanced is double the price but is it the best of them?


Yes. 2.5mm balanced is the best, then slow-lotus 1.0+. Rosemary is great for basshead, needs a powerful dap/dac to drive. The narcissus 2.0 is good too... I have to say almost FAAEAL buds are good. The Iris 2.0, sl 2.5mm balanced, sl 1.0+ are insanely good for the price. Very great p/p


----------



## RikudouGoku

Hououin Kyouma said:


> Yes. 2.5mm balanced is the best, then slow-lotus 1.0+. Rosemary is great for basshead, needs a powerful dap/dac to drive. The narcissus 2.0 is good too... I have to say almost FAAEAL buds are good. The Iris 2.0, sl 2.5mm balanced, sl 1.0+ are insanely good for the price. Very great p/p


if you could only get one bud which one would you get? Using it with the Fiio M11.  And as far as I know, even buds that should have great bass like the VE Monks are extremely dissapointing for me coming from iems.


----------



## Hououin Kyouma

RikudouGoku said:


> if you could only get one bud which one would you get? Using it with the Fiio M11.  And as far as I know, even buds that should have great bass like the VE Monks are extremely dissapointing for me coming from iems.


Fiio M11? FAAEAL Snow-lotus 2.5mm Balanced! Trust me! You won't regret 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32889629399.html


----------



## RikudouGoku

Hououin Kyouma said:


> Fiio M11? FAAEAL Snow-lotus 2.5mm Balanced! Trust me! You won't regret
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32889629399.html


Thanks, just gonna wait 16 hours for the sale to start.


----------



## cathee

+1 for the Snow Lotus 2.5mm - I prefer it to a lot of other "TOTL" earbuds


----------



## superuser1

Could someone kindly give impressions about the RY4S mmcx interface earbud (300ohm) please.


----------



## Turbulance

ClieOS said:


> Compared to ST-10, ST-10S is slightly less neutral in frequency distribution with a reduction in treble, giving a fainted sense of warmth and smooth. Soundstage has improved but mainly on layering / position - I see these more like trade-off rather than improvement, so basically they remain largely the same technically but tuned differently. So if you love the original ST-10, then perhaps ST-10S is not the direct upgrade you are looking for. But if you find ST-10 a bit too bright, then ST-10S might worth a try.
> 
> ST-10S Black Gold however is more like a fully opened up ST-10S, reminds me a lot of Sennheiser HD600. (*though I have not listened to HD600 for awhile, so takes it with a grain of salt). Between the two, I'll definitely recommend Black Gold first and I'll consider it as a proper upgrade of the original ST-10. It is harder to drive though, so you want to make sure you have a decent source first.



Thank!

I had just got my pair of the older ST-10 earbuds out of the letterbox when I saw a message on AliExpress from NiceHCK informing everyone of the new models. I was a bit annoyed about that but note it looks like I made the right choice.

There are still plenty of the old green ST-10 earbuds for sale. I would recommend them if you want great sound with good bass. You should be able to get them at a discount given they are superseded by the new ST-10s models.


----------



## Promenadeplatz

cathee said:


> +1 for the Snow Lotus 2.5mm - I prefer it to a lot of other "TOTL" earbuds


How much power does your source need though for that to sound decent? .... is 75mW enough?


----------



## DrKemikaru

RikudouGoku said:


> Does FAAEAL make good earbuds? Planning on getting the Litz copper cable from them on the coming sale "Refresh and recharge" on Aliexpress and might want to pick up 1 or 2 buds from them.
> 
> Currently I have the Ve Monk lite (also had Plus), HE 150pro and the Moondrop Nameless. Nameless is the only one I like out of them.


If they are not super, then at least very interesting. I have already spoken about my first impressions of FAAEAL Iris: Commemorative Edition in this thread above (I have already spoken about FAAEAL Iris: Commemorative Edition (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15567661). 



Also I have heard from one user that Snow-Lotus can compete even with VE Monk. Maybe it is true.


----------



## DrKemikaru

DrKemikaru said:


> (I have already spoken about FAAEAL Iris: Commemorative Edition (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15567661).



It was my "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" gaffe, lol.


----------



## RikudouGoku

DrKemikaru said:


> If they are not super, then at least very interesting. I have already spoken about my first impressions of FAAEAL Iris: Commemorative Edition in this thread above (I have already spoken about FAAEAL Iris: Commemorative Edition (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15567661).
> Also I have heard from one user that Snow-Lotus can compete even with VE Monk. Maybe it is true.


I dont like the Monks at all though...so hope they arent similar.


----------



## DrKemikaru

RikudouGoku said:


> I dont like the Monks at all though...so hope they arent similar.



I don't heard the Monks, but this earphones have another sound character. As far as I know, Monk Plus have accent on middle (1-3 kHz). The Iris: CE have upper middle accent (maybe 2-5 kHz) and dedicated HF. They are not universal and not suitable for everyone, but in some music they show themselves well.


----------



## cathee

Promenadeplatz said:


> How much power does your source need though for that to sound decent? .... is 75mW enough?



Since it's 2.5mm, I only use them with the ES100 and the iBasso DC01 dongle. They seem pretty easy to drive?


----------



## willyboyaudio

Hello friends   
I see some Faaeal models are being discussed, with the Iris 2.0 and Snow Lotus 1.0+ being recommended favorably. Would anyone care to share what is different in terms of sound character and rendering? Impedance and sensitivity is not an issue for me. Given adequate power to drive them, how do they sound? Thanks a lot.


----------



## dh0licious (Apr 27, 2020)

I'm looking for a MMCX earbud in the $30 price range.

I mainly listen to melodic house / techno. I've heard good things about the **** BK2 and **** PT15.

Will be powered by Galaxy S10 (and possibly EarStudio ES100 in the future, but not for now).


----------



## Promenadeplatz

cathee said:


> Since it's 2.5mm, I only use them with the ES100 and the iBasso DC01 dongle. They seem pretty easy to drive?


Yes, think I will also go for a dongle once my Black Gold arrives.


----------



## baskingshark (Apr 27, 2020)

dh0licious said:


> I'm looking for a MMCX earbud in the $30 price range.
> 
> I mainly listen to melodic house / techno. I've heard good things about the **** BK2 and **** PT15.
> 
> Will be powered by Galaxy S10 (and possibly EarStudio ES100 in the future, but not for now).



Can't go wrong with the BK2, it is my most used earbud nowadays. Good technicals and balanced tuning for the price. Maybe it lacks in soundstage width, but nothing to complain at the price. Few other buds come with detachable MMCX at that pricing. I think it is $21 USD during the upcoming Aliexpress sale (starts soon today).

Maybe the RY4S MMCX type earbuds? I haven't tried them but am interested based on reviews.


Anyways, does anyone know what are the sonic differences between the RY4S 300 ohm version vs normal vs plus? TIA!


----------



## superuser1

baskingshark said:


> Anyways, does anyone know what are the sonic differences between the RY4S 300 ohm version vs normal vs plus? TIA!


I had the same question a few pages back but no answer yet. Id like to know too...


----------



## Alex.Grimm

dh0licious said:


> I'm looking for a MMCX earbud in the $30 price range.


Willsound MK2 MMCX but have to pay more for shipping


----------



## dh0licious

baskingshark said:


> Can't go wrong with the BK2, it is my most used earbud nowadays. Good technicals and balanced tuning for the price. Maybe it lacks in soundstage width, but nothing to complain at the price. Few other buds come with detachable MMCX at that pricing. I think it is $21 USD during the upcoming Aliexpress sale (starts soon today).
> 
> Maybe the RY4S MMCX type earbuds? I haven't tried them but am interested based on reviews.
> 
> ...



Thanks, I'll go for the BK2.

Question, which I haven't been able to narrow down after searching this thread, are there are recommendations for good tips with earbuds (like there are for IEM's - Comply, Dekoni, Spinfits etc)?

I see a lot of generic foam covers, donut style foam covers and silicone winged eartips on Aliexpress. Wondering what I should try out.


----------



## baskingshark

dh0licious said:


> Thanks, I'll go for the BK2.
> 
> Question, which I haven't been able to narrow down after searching this thread, are there are recommendations for good tips with earbuds (like there are for IEM's - Comply, Dekoni, Spinfits etc)?
> 
> I see a lot of generic foam covers, donut style foam covers and silicone winged eartips on Aliexpress. Wondering what I should try out.



I think there were a few helpful posts here from other headfiers regarding donut foams vs full foams + importance of density of foams:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3067#post-15321503
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3067#post-15321506
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3067#post-15321507

Credit to these guys.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 27, 2020)

dh0licious said:


> Thanks, I'll go for the BK2.
> 
> Question, which I haven't been able to narrow down after searching this thread, are there are recommendations for good tips with earbuds (like there are for IEM's - Comply, Dekoni, Spinfits etc)?
> 
> I see a lot of generic foam covers, donut style foam covers and silicone winged eartips on Aliexpress. Wondering what I should try out.


I have tried nearly everything under the moon when it comes to earbud foams (covers/pads) the past one and a half years. Besides thickness (thin, medium, thick); gauge (small vs large hole); style (full vs. donut); and color (a plethora of available colors... no exaggeration here) I rarely have come across any real major difference between foam brands. Notably, my best foams have been the cheapest ones that I have bought off AliExpress in bulk... go figure! Yes, there have been a few (a very few) that were poorly made but the ultra-common consistency in materials used has led me to believe that only a handful of factories are actually manufacturing them.


----------



## dh0licious

baskingshark said:


> Maybe the RY4S MMCX type earbuds? I haven't tried them but am interested based on reviews.
> 
> Anyways, does anyone know what are the sonic differences between the RY4S 300 ohm version vs normal vs plus? TIA!



I'm also interested to know more about the RY4S (Normal 32ohm vs Plus 32ohm vs 300ohm). I will be driving these of a Samsung Galaxy S10 (and maybe ES100 in the future).


----------



## assassin10000

dh0licious said:


> Thanks, I'll go for the BK2.
> 
> Question, which I haven't been able to narrow down after searching this thread, are there are recommendations for good tips with earbuds (like there are for IEM's - Comply, Dekoni, Spinfits etc)?
> 
> I see a lot of generic foam covers, donut style foam covers and silicone winged eartips on Aliexpress. Wondering what I should try out.



Here's some info:




assassin10000 said:


> Foam colors don't matter. Foam density does.
> 
> There are iirc about 4 to maybe 6 different density foams. And these are also available as 'donut' style.
> 
> ...






assassin10000 said:


> Here you go:
> 
> Store link:
> https://trigrain518946.aliexpress.com/store/group/Foam-ear-pads/518946_509998943.html
> ...


----------



## baskingshark

So there's another aliexpress sale that started today, buds wise I was looking at the SMABAT ST10S black gold and black silver versions.

I spoke to some sellers on Aliexpress, a few can go as low as $120 and $75 USD respectively. Still a bit too pricey for me to pull the trigger, any other cheap and good buds u guys looking at for the sale?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Here is my first review on an earbud, the Moondrop Nameless: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/moondrop-nameless-metal-earbuds.22909/reviews#item-review-23607
Dont kill me on my misstakes  .

Personal grade: B-

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YNuslYM4CrhMPrOLofzTm4ei7HEfP8AI1zxswrMw2ho/edit?usp=sharing
(I only have 3 buds at the moment though)


----------



## dh0licious

Does anyone know where i can get earbud wings (is that what they're called?) exactly like this, or similar? I guess Aliexpress but a link would be great.


----------



## captione

You should try the Vidos. After recabling mine, I honestly almost regret buying alot of earbuds because of this hobby, since I keep coming for em. Insane sound for almost 2 usd. 

I'll probably buy another pair and the other red/blue one since its reported to have a very different signature, might as well recable it when the time comes.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

dh0licious said:


> Does anyone know where i can get earbud wings (is that what they're called?) exactly like this, or similar? I guess Aliexpress but a link would be great.


Ve Ex pack


----------



## DrKemikaru

dh0licious said:


> Does anyone know where i can get earbud wings (is that what they're called?) exactly like this, or similar? I guess Aliexpress but a link would be great.



Maybe something like this?

https://aliexpress.ru/item/32820759455.html
https://aliexpress.ru/item/32695412016.html
https://aliexpress.ru/item/4000039123456.html

Bonus:
https://aliexpress.ru/item/32722076231.html


----------



## Nool

@baskingshark @dh0licious @superuser1

I own both the **** bk2 and the 32ohm RY4S PLUS, they're both decent buds for the price though personally I'd go for the bk2.

The bk2 has better attack/detail, better timbre, and somewhat better treble extension. Bass is flat but has some texture, and the mids are up front followed by the treble. It's a clean, sterile presentation, even more so when you pull the mids down 1-3db.

The 32ohm RY4S+ has much stronger bass presence and a somewhat wider stage which makes it more immersive than the bk2, but without as good attack or timbre leading to lower overall definition. Typical 'fun' v-shaped tuning.

Should also note the cable that comes with the bk2 is quite decent, on par with the 10-15$ cables you can buy on AliExpress, so imo the price of the buds themselves are pretty close.

Also, trying to EQ up the bass in the bk2 led to distortion pretty quickly, so if you're a die-hard basshead probably better to give these a pass.

All these were driven off a Moto g6 via the headphone jack.


----------



## Nool

Also regarding the differences between the RY4S variants, I remember reading the +model as simply having stronger bass, and given the lackluster attack/timbre/treble extension of the 32ohm+ I doubt the 300ohm would be much better. Those are just my thoughts though, I've only heard the 32ohm+ version so take that as you will.


----------



## furyossa

dh0licious said:


> Does anyone know where i can get earbud wings (is that what they're called?) exactly like this, or similar? I guess Aliexpress but a link would be great.


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32695412016.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32722076231.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32820759455.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32899193042.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32805267675.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32876132152.html


----------



## baskingshark

Nool said:


> Also regarding the differences between the RY4S variants, I remember reading the +model as simply having stronger bass, and given the lackluster attack/timbre/treble extension of the 32ohm+ I doubt the 300ohm would be much better. Those are just my thoughts though, I've only heard the 32ohm+ version so take that as you will.



K thanks for your feedback! Helpful stuff. Wide stage sounds good, I found the soundstage width to be average at best on the BK2.

I managed to negotiate a slight discount with one of the aliexpress sellers during the current sale to sell me a bundle of RY4S plus 32 ohm and a RY4S 300 ohm for $18 USD. Will drop my impressions/review once I get them, and maybe compare them with the BK2.


----------



## dh0licious

It is our honour.


----------



## snowmind

B40 improves after several hours of use? I have two units of this button, the one I use daily has great definition and details, the second is totally stuffy.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 29, 2020)

A new accessory for my earbuds... *Meizu HiFi Pro DAC HeadAMP* with a *ddHiFi DD DJ35A* (_2.5mm Balanced Female to 3.5mm Male adapter_). Very impressed with this little device; so powerful and clear as a whistle in such a small form factor. Very pleased.


----------



## CRML (Apr 28, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> Sennheiser MX985, Blox TM7, Venture Electronic Zen 1.0, Rose Technology Mojito.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Man,thats a Beautiful Earbud Colection,this year Ima try **** PT15,HeadRoom MS16,n Some eabuds of my favorite sound brand : Philips Sound.


----------



## CT007 (Nov 14, 2020)

*Yincrow RW-1000* "*Bass Pro Version*" - Mini Initial Review



(More pics here - https://imgur.com/a/erGbGrg )

Got them today. Order was processed through Aliexpress seller, "LuckLZ", on April 22, and delivered April 28(~4 business days of shipping).

Left channel of stock cable is totally dead. Luckily I have the cable from my S en fer D+6 to save the day.

Balance is good, but I find treble presentation too harsh, Grado-like. Details are good, with good/average refinement, and good spaciousness(not a huge sound). Bass seems balanced, but is definitely on the light side. Mid-bass seems to be most prominent. Overall, I am finding them(so far) too treble troublesome, with good yet very average performance. I may indeed prefer the less accurate/neutral RW-9(undecided; still comparing), with its clearer, more effortless treble and greater spaciousness.

Have not heard standard RW-1000, nor ST-10 or similarly priced earbuds, but after hearing this(and very much enjoying RW-9, and to a lesser degree Monk Plus) I have little faith that earbuds can compete with IEMs at hifi levels. Though, still on the way to hope for is Moondrop Nameless and Toneking MrZ Tomahawk.


----------



## RobinFood

CT007 said:


> *Yincrow RW-1000* "*Bass Pro Version*" - Mini Initial Review
> 
> (More pics here - https://imgur.com/a/erGbGrg )
> 
> ...



Sounds like they need fat thick foam, maybe even double foams on them.
Were you listening to them without any foam? For most earbuds that is the equivelant of listening to IEMs without any tips.


----------



## CT007 (Apr 28, 2020)

RobinFood said:


> Sounds like they need fat thick foam, maybe even double foams on them.
> Were you listening to them without any foam? For most earbuds that is the equivelant of listening to IEMs without any tips.


Hm. I noticed some added smoothness when I put the stock donut foams on, 1 layer. I have some silicon/rubber earbud covers on the way, to try yet. I'm not a fan of the common stock foam material(especially not from VE Monk Plus), so ideally there is no foam/covering.

Also, these earbuds come with ear hooks to be worn with the earbud hanging down, like an IEM...but the vents will probably be covered up a lot worn upside down, so I don't see how that makes sense to do.


----------



## BlacLord

Was looking around for new buds and then checked out the **** KP120 and saw it was on sale! Nabbed them for £11.


----------



## RobinFood (Apr 28, 2020)

CT007 said:


> Hm. I noticed some added smoothness when I put the stock donut foams on, 1 layer. I have some silicon/rubber earbud covers on the way, to try yet. I'm not a fan of the common stock foam material(especially not from VE Monk Plus), so ideally there is no foam/covering.
> 
> Also, these earbuds come with ear hooks to be worn with the earbud hanging down, like an IEM...but the vents will probably be covered up a lot worn upside down, so I don't see how that makes sense to do.



Donut foams don't do much to tame the highs, but they do add a seal to get a better bass response. They are usually good if you like the treble amount already, but it sounds like you are not a fan.

The silicone covers tend to not sound so good. They are a little too thick and I always had a hard time getting them to fit right. They will add a lot of bass if you get them to seal, but you will probably be getting similar amounts of treble.

Hiegi makes some of the thicker foams out there. Brand new, foams can be itchy and scratchy which is uncomfortable, but after a few hours of picking up earwax they get pretty comfortable and lose the scratchiness. I think if you try them on you will get the sound you are looking for, and after a week they won't bother you anymore.

The only earbud I know of that is tuned to be used without foam is the Zen. If you really don't want to use foam and want a good sounding earbud that would probably be your best bet. Otherwise almost all earbuds are tuned compensating for a full foam and the seal you get from a good fitting set of foams.


----------



## CT007 (Apr 28, 2020)

RobinFood said:


> The only earbud I know of that is tuned to be used without foam is the Zen


VE Zen? v1? v2? If those are the one(s) you mean, they look identical to RW-9, which I like without foam(simplest fit). How can you tell if they were tuned for foam use or not..? Those VE Zens also come with a full accessory pack of foams, it looks like. Strange?


----------



## RobinFood

CT007 said:


> VE Zen? v1? v2? If those are the one(s) you mean, they look identical to RW-9, which I like without foam(simplest fit). How can you tell if they were tuned for foam use or not..? Those VE Zens also come with a full accessory pack of foams, it looks like. Strange?



Both Zens are tuned to be used without foams. The only way to know if they were tuned to be used with or without foam is to hear it from the maker, but 99 percent of the earbuds are tuned to be used with foams, and the makers recommend using some type of foam to get a seal.

After using a few you will see why, getting a good seal is just as important as getting a good seal on am iem. Otherwise the bass just can't come out and the highs are harsh. It just feels and sounds right when you get that seal.


----------



## theresanarc

I was thinking of getting the Edifier P186 or P190 on Ali instead of trying my luck with another Qian69 shipment, they both look comfortable as well. I do have the H180 and they're pretty decent, thoughts on these other two?


----------



## hippotas (Apr 29, 2020)

RobinFood said:


> Both Zens are tuned to be used without foams. The only way to know if they were tuned to be used with or without foam is to hear it from the maker, but 99 percent of the earbuds are tuned to be used with foams, and the makers recommend using some type of foam to get a seal.
> 
> After using a few you will see why, getting a good seal is just as important as getting a good seal on am iem. Otherwise the bass just can't come out and the highs are harsh. It just feels and sounds right when you get that seal.


Do all zen models use the same driver ?
One of my friends had ve asura pure white but its driver turned out to be the zen driver due to same impedance/frequency graph. Moreover, it used the same glue as ve zen (red one), asura models use blue one


----------



## ClieOS

ISN Rambo II with the free C4 cable, next to Ourart QJ21.


----------



## sutosuto

ClieOS said:


> ISN Rambo II with the free C4 cable, next to Ourart QJ21.


How does the Rambo II sound? I want to upgrade my earbuds, coming from RY4S, prefer something with more bass and bigger soundstage. TIA


----------



## ClieOS

sutosuto said:


> How does the Rambo II sound? I want to upgrade my earbuds, coming from RY4S, prefer something with more bass and bigger soundstage. TIA



Don't have any RY4S to compare to, but Rambo II has sort of the same flavor as QJ21, though not as upfront / fun / energetic, essentially more laid-back with better soundstage. Overall, I'll call its mildly warm sound that is rich and somewhat smooth. Bass is pretty good, but definitely not something I'll call bass-heavy.


----------



## DBaldock9

Found a really good combination today - 
Zishan DSDs (Dual AK4497) [3.5mm TRS] -> Penon "Earbuds Anonymous" earbuds 
. 
Listening to a flac rip of the Gothard Sisters CD, _Story Girl _ (2011) - and the details & clarity of their fiddling, guitars, and hand drums is really nice!


----------



## Sam L

As I deal with the tail end of a persistent ear infection  I have become intrigued with earbuds as an alternative to my iems. I have some Snow Lotus 1.0+ and Yuin pk2's inbound, so I figure I have ultra-budget and mid-ish tier covered.

What do you guys recommend in the $100 to $150 range?

My collections runs the gamut from slight V to neutral-ish, though lately I've been partial to anything tuned to the Harman curve.


----------



## DBaldock9

Sam L said:


> As I deal with the tail end of a persistent ear infection  I have become intrigued with earbuds as an alternative to my iems. I have some Snow Lotus 1.0+ and Yuin pk2's inbound, so I figure I have ultra-budget and mid-ish tier covered.
> 
> What do you guys recommend in the $100 to $150 range?
> 
> My collections runs the gamut from slight V to neutral-ish, though lately I've been partial to anything tuned to the Harman curve.



If it's still available, the K's K600 is around $100.
Has a great, "you're in the room" sound, with good Sound Stage and Bass response.


----------



## Turbulance

Sam L said:


> As I deal with the tail end of a persistent ear infection  I have become intrigued with earbuds as an alternative to my iems. I have some Snow Lotus 1.0+ and Yuin pk2's inbound, so I figure I have ultra-budget and mid-ish tier covered.
> 
> What do you guys recommend in the $100 to $150 range?
> 
> My collections runs the gamut from slight V to neutral-ish, though lately I've been partial to anything tuned to the Harman curve.



I’m in love with the Smabat ST-10 (original / green) earbuds. If you like a healthy controlled bass and neutral mids and treble I recommend these.

From what I’ve heard the new ST-10s silver and gold models have slightly less bass according to a comment in this thread but to date there haven’t been any comprehensive reviews on these new models.


----------



## Sam L

Turbulance said:


> I’m in love with the Smabat ST-10 (original / green) earbuds. If you like a healthy controlled bass and neutral mids and treble I recommend these.
> 
> From what I’ve heard the new ST-10s silver and gold models have slightly less bass according to a comment in this thread but to date there haven’t been any comprehensive reviews on these new models.



Looks to be a fine looking earbud. What about in the $200 to $250 range?


----------



## bhima

Sam L said:


> As I deal with the tail end of a persistent ear infection  I have become intrigued with earbuds as an alternative to my iems. I have some Snow Lotus 1.0+ and Yuin pk2's inbound, so I figure I have ultra-budget and mid-ish tier covered.
> 
> What do you guys recommend in the $100 to $150 range?
> 
> My collections runs the gamut from slight V to neutral-ish, though lately I've been partial to anything tuned to the Harman curve.


You will get many great responses to this but they may miss one thing: fit/comfort. I noticed you ordered essentially a pk shell (yuin) and an MX500 shell earbud (snow lotus). For me, I cannot wear an mx500 shell earbud for long as they just start to hurt. The pk shell is THE most comfortable earbud shell out there. And one of the best, more neutral earbuds with that shell in your price range are the Shozy BK. They are my overall preferred headphone out of my modest lot, but that does include my AKG K7XX.

If the snow lotus fits fine, your options will be quite numerous.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

bhima said:


> You will get many great responses to this but they may miss one thing: fit/comfort. I noticed you ordered essentially a pk shell (yuin) and an MX500 shell earbud (snow lotus). For me, I cannot wear an mx500 shell earbud for long as they just start to hurt. The pk shell is THE most comfortable earbud shell out there.


Concur, I have found the smaller shell types (PK Yuin types) far more comfortable for extended listening.



Sam L said:


> Looks to be a fine looking earbud. What about in the $200 to $250 range?


Many would argue that $200-250 is WELL beyond the point of diminishing returns with earbuds. I myself have found the sweet spot to be around $100-150 though I would readily agree that there are a number of budget earbuds out there that play like tier one buds (e.g. NICEHCK Audio's B40 and ME80). I have always considered the unicorns of earbuds, Moondrop Liebesleid and Simphonio Dragon 2+ / 3, to be outliers, the exceptions to the rule.


----------



## superuser1

I am absolutely surprised by the bang for buck performance of the NiceHCK B40s.. yet to experiment with different foams though.


----------



## SiggyFraud

Can RY4S with UE cable still be purchased on AE? They used to be available here, but the listing seems to be gone. Could it be the one with brown cable? The description indicates this.
I asked the seller, but got no response.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Apr 30, 2020)

SiggyFraud said:


> Can RY4S with UE cable still be purchased on AE? They used to be available here, but the listing seems to be gone. Could it be the one with brown cable? The description indicates this.
> I asked the seller, but got no response.


UE are now colled Hi, actually Hi version with small jack no longer sell


Spoiler



https://a.aliexpress.com/_BUMgmS


----------



## SiggyFraud

Alex.Grimm said:


> UE are now colled Hi, actually Hi version with small jack no longer sell
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Thanks! So basically all the colour/cable options available under your link are UE?


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Apr 30, 2020)

SiggyFraud said:


> Thanks! So basically all the colour/cable options available under your link are UE?


Yes, They used to sell UE and HI. Hi version looked like the picture under the spoiler. But now they only sell UE, but they changed their name to HI. And this is a little confusing.


Spoiler


----------



## kvad

ClieOS said:


> Don't have any RY4S to compare to, but Rambo II has sort of the same flavor as QJ21, though not as upfront / fun / energetic, essentially more laid-back with better soundstage. Overall, I'll call its mildly warm sound that is rich and somewhat smooth. Bass is pretty good, but definitely not something I'll call bass-heavy.



Do you feel there is any merit to the claim _Make Rambo II sound worth USD150+_ with the C4 cable? Can it play in the same division as other buds at that price level?


----------



## SiggyFraud

Alex.Grimm said:


> Yes, They used to sell UE and HI. Hi version looked like the picture under the spoiler. But now they only sell UE, but they changed their name to HI. And this is a little confusing.
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Cheers! That's really helpful.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Alex.Grimm said:


> UE are now colled Hi, actually Hi version with small jack no longer sell
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html
5 usd bud with replaceable cable and we also have the Moondrop chaconne at 320 usd WITHOUT replaceable cable, What???
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33040362551.html


----------



## baskingshark

superuser1 said:


> I am absolutely surprised by the bang for buck performance of the NiceHCK B40s.. yet to experiment with different foams though.



Yes the B40 is a great set. Unfortunately I prefer the shell type of the NiceHCK ME80 in terms of fit, so haven't been giving the B40 much air time, but the sound quality of the B40 is tremendous for the cheap price. The B40 was my first ever purchase in the CHIFI earbuds rabbit hole and it opened my eyes to how good buds are (I was sadly a earbuds snob prior to that).



RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html
> 5 usd bud with replaceable cable and we also have the Moondrop chaconne at 320 usd WITHOUT replaceable cable, What???
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33040362551.html



Yes I just bought the RY4S 32 ohm plus and RY4S 300 ohm from that shop. Can't wait to hear how they sound.

This cable thing is the same issue with IEMs/headphones, we still have midfi priced IEMs today that come with non detachable cables, when there's cheap IEMs like the **** at $16 USD that have detachable cables. I've asked some manufacturers directly about this non detachable cable issue and their answer was fixed cables equals less connectors causing bottlenecks in the signal path, which I think is a lame excuse. It's probably to just save costs, which doesn't really make sense for a TOTL/midfi priced IEM/bud in relation to the cost as some shops are charging $10 - 15ish USD to do a MMCX mod.

In my experience, the cable is usually the first point of failure in these non detachable sets, and maybe even just one awkward yank away from dying. Plus some of us prefer balanced cables or even changing cables to subtly change sound signature (for the non cable skeptics).

I have a phobia with non detachable cables as 2 of my midfi westones died in the cable and became useless within a few months (despite babying them). So I generally won't buy anything more than $30 USD with non detachable cables, but maybe others don't mind. YMMV.


----------



## Hakan Gencer

ClieOS said:


> Don't have any RY4S to compare to, but Rambo II has sort of the same flavor as QJ21, though not as upfront / fun / energetic, essentially more laid-back with better soundstage. Overall, I'll call its mildly warm sound that is rich and somewhat smooth. Bass is pretty good, but definitely not something I'll call bass-heavy.



Is it possible to drive Rambo II with smartphone?


----------



## superuser1

baskingshark said:


> (I was sadly a earbuds snob prior to that)


I was guilty of the same 



baskingshark said:


> Yes I just bought the RY4S 32 ohm plus and RY4S 300 ohm from that shop.


I have purchased the same 32Ω and 300Ω. Lets see how they turn out to be.


----------



## ClieOS

kvad said:


> Do you feel there is any merit to the claim _Make Rambo II sound worth USD150+_ with the C4 cable? Can it play in the same division as other buds at that price level?



I thought it probably can rival some of the big boys on the $150 region. The build quality alone already makes it feels like a $150+ earbud (as you can see with the comparison next to QJ21, which is almost $250). But the point is that it is only $70, so that makes it a real bargain in my book.



Hakan Gencer said:


> Is it possible to drive Rambo II with smartphone?



It is not a particularly difficult to drive earbuds so you should be fine to use it with a smartphone. Then again, it also depends on how good the smartphone's output is.


----------



## FastAndClean

ClieOS said:


> I thought it probably can rival some of the big boys on the $150 region. The build quality alone already makes it feels like a $150+ earbud (as you can see with the comparison next to QJ21, which is almost $250). But the point is that it is only $70, so that makes it a real bargain in my book.
> 
> 
> 
> It is not a particularly difficult to drive earbuds so you should be fine to use it with a smartphone. Then again, it also depends on how good the smartphone's output is.


what kind of driver is in _Rambo II _ ? looks like some sort of a metal coating from the photo


----------



## waynes world

baskingshark said:


> Yes the B40 is a great set. Unfortunately I prefer the shell type of the NiceHCK ME80 in terms of fit, so haven't been giving the B40 much air time, but the sound quality of the B40 is tremendous for the cheap price. The B40 was my first ever purchase in the CHIFI earbuds rabbit hole and it opened my eyes to how good buds are (I was sadly a earbuds snob prior to that).



I think both the B40 and the ME80 are great!
(and if HungryPanda were around, he would agree)


----------



## bhima

RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html



Someone needs to do this with a PK shell that sounds as good or better than a Shozy BK and I'd pay around $250 for it. I cannot for the life of me spend more than $50 on headphones anymore that don't have detachable cables right at the earbud. I almost pulled the trigger on the Flare Audio Pro 2 HD until I saw how they idiotically put the MMCX connector AFTER a bunch of cable--instead of at the IEM's housing where it belongs.


----------



## RikudouGoku

bhima said:


> Someone needs to do this with a PK shell that sounds as good or better than a Shozy BK and I'd pay around $250 for it. I cannot for the life of me spend more than $50 on headphones anymore that don't have detachable cables right at the earbud. I almost pulled the trigger on the Flare Audio Pro 2 HD until I saw how they idiotically put the MMCX connector AFTER a bunch of cable--instead of at the IEM's housing where it belongs.


They need to do this with ALL earbuds lol. There are no excuses for why something that costs 50 usd and above as to why they don't have replaceable cables...


----------



## RobinFood

RikudouGoku said:


> They need to do this with ALL earbuds lol. There are no excuses for why something that costs 50 usd and above as to why they don't have replaceable cables...



I've had more mmcx connectors fail on me than wires since I started putting my earbuds in cases, but that's just me. I don't really trust the quality of some of those connectors.


----------



## baskingshark

RobinFood said:


> I've had more mmcx connectors fail on me than wires since I started putting my earbuds in cases, but that's just me. I don't really trust the quality of some of those connectors.



I gotta agree MMCX tend to have shorter lifespan than 2 pin connectors. Best to just leave a cable on an MMCX type bud/IEM and don't do frequent cable rolling if possible.

But then 2 pin connectors have their own issues such as recessed/elevated housing, QDC/TFZ variants, 0.75 and 0.78 mm variants, angled and non angled variants. And some audio companies have semi proprietary 2 pin types even.

Although we are venting a lot on non detachable cables in TOTL/midfi buds/IEMs, actually looking at the bigger picture, the way CHIFI moves so fast with multiple hypetrains coming out on a monthly (sometimes weekly) basis, in all likelihood we would have bought a new hypetrain by the time the cable of the existing one dies haha.


----------



## ClieOS

FastAndClean said:


> what kind of driver is in _Rambo II _ ? looks like some sort of a metal coating from the photo



No idea.


----------



## KevDzn

ClieOS said:


> I thought it probably can rival some of the big boys on the $150 region. The build quality alone already makes it feels like a $150+ earbud (as you can see with the comparison next to QJ21, which is almost $250). But the point is that it is only $70, so that makes it a real bargain in my book.



Rambo II ordered and it comes free with an additional $50 cable (last day for cable promo - 1st May). Too good to pass.


----------



## FastAndClean

i never had any problems with fixed cables on earphones or earbuds, but i had problems with mmcx connectors, make me question why i am looking for earbuds with removable cable at all


----------



## becritical

Can someone please recommend earphone with tangle free cable and microphone?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 1, 2020)

becritical said:


> Can someone please recommend earphone with tangle free cable and microphone?


*NICEHCK Audio B40 w/ Mic (32Ω)*
I was initially doubtful but it has been more than six months now and my wife has been unable to tangle these buds up... and she is a pro at it! The cable is slick so does not tend to tie up nor does it snag easily. Please do not let the price dissuade you as these are truly "sleepers" and perform well above their price range as many will similarly attest to here on this thread!


----------



## RobinFood

becritical said:


> Can someone please recommend earphone with tangle free cable and microphone?



Sabbat x12 if you want truly tangle free.

Headroom MS16 has a hard to tangle cable. You might still want to lightly loop it like this if you don't use a case...


----------



## RobinFood

Sorry about the picture, I dressed my buds...


----------



## baskingshark

Just to check with the rest of you friends, do u guys and gals prefer earbud cables with an inbuilt mic (if you have a choice from the seller)?

I don't have measuring gear, but I've seen some of my friends reproduce some increased resistance in the side of the IEM/earbud cables with a mic. And it may be a potential source of failure in the signal chain down the line, plus some sellers charge a dollar or two more for buds with mics. Though I know some of us need the mic for work and chat purposes, and to make the bud more multipurpose as such.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

baskingshark said:


> Just to check with the rest of you friends, do u guys and gals prefer earbud cables with an inbuilt mic (if you have a choice from the seller)?


I recabled several earbuds as a headset for my LG smartphone with a DAC. Used these cables. If you want a microphone closer to the chin, you can shorten the wire a little.


Spoiler



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32816172137.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32825140120.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32976692253.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32978985854.html


----------



## groucho69

baskingshark said:


> I gotta agree MMCX tend to have shorter lifespan than 2 pin connectors. Best to just leave a cable on an MMCX type bud/IEM and don't do frequent cable rolling if possible.
> 
> But then 2 pin connectors have their own issues such as recessed/elevated housing, QDC/TFZ variants, 0.75 and 0.78 mm variants, angled and non angled variants. And some audio companies have semi proprietary 2 pin types even.
> 
> Although we are venting a lot on non detachable cables in TOTL/midfi buds/IEMs, actually looking at the bigger picture, the way CHIFI moves so fast with multiple hypetrains coming out on a monthly (sometimes weekly) basis, in all likelihood we would have bought a new hypetrain by the time the cable of the existing one dies haha.




MMCX are not meant to experience multiple insertions. There is a tool that is used for disconnection but that is really meant for repairs, again, not for multiple insertions. Using the tool will likely increase the lifespan of the connector.


----------



## ClieOS

MMCX is not meant for audio, period.


----------



## RobinFood

groucho69 said:


> MMCX are not meant to experience multiple insertions. There is a tool that is used for disconnection but that is really meant for repairs, again, not for multiple insertions. Using the tool will likely increase the lifespan of the connector.



I'm not sure about that. There is also a problem with the free rotation of mmcx, and more of the metal is exposed for oxidation. Poor QC on cheap mmcx means they can actually just get pulled out from a tug, or the solder wires can come loose. 

Overall when dealing with a product you know will have poor QC (like from Aliexpress), I feel wired is safer than mmcx.


----------



## bhima

RobinFood said:


> I'm not sure about that. There is also a problem with the free rotation of mmcx, and more of the metal is exposed for oxidation. Poor QC on cheap mmcx means they can actually just get pulled out from a tug, or the solder wires can come loose.
> 
> Overall when dealing with a product you know will have poor QC (like from Aliexpress), I feel wired is safer than mmcx.


Thing is, in theory, a detachable cable housing molded directly to the shell has the potential to be much stronger than any fully wired set which will eventually just break down. I don't care about testing different wires, I just want to be able to replace one when it inevitably breaks like my BK wire broke (luckily I had an engineer friend on hand to fix it).


----------



## Sam L (May 1, 2020)

KevDzn said:


> Rambo II ordered and it comes free with an additional $50 cable (last day for cable promo - 1st May). Too good to pass.



Argh.... Missed it. It's May 1st still in the US, but not where Penon Audio is located.


----------



## groucho69

RobinFood said:


> I'm not sure about that. There is also a problem with the free rotation of mmcx, and more of the metal is exposed for oxidation. Poor QC on cheap mmcx means they can actually just get pulled out from a tug, or the solder wires can come loose.
> 
> Overall when dealing with a product you know will have poor QC (like from Aliexpress), I feel wired is safer than mmcx.



Having sold this type, manufactured in China, I can tell you that QC can be non-existent. I have have had million $ returns, had them replace and still had to process another return. You tell the factory what is wrong with them and that it needs to be fixes fast and reshipped. The factory says "YES" and then ships product from the same batch with the same issues.


----------



## groucho69

ClieOS said:


> MMCX is not meant for audio, period.



Agreed.


----------



## KevDzn

Sam L said:


> Argh.... Missed it. It's May 1st still in the US, but not where Penon Audio is located.



Maybe you can email them and politely ask them? I'm sure they will be okay with it. Like you said it's still 1st may in your location.


----------



## Promenadeplatz (May 1, 2020)

I was asking for the EBX which are sold out there and got offered the ST-10s Black Gold for $99 at NiceCHK Shop yesterday, just in case it suits someone.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Promenadeplatz said:


> I got offered the ST-10s Black Gold for $99 at NiceCHK Shop yesterday, just in case it suits someone.


sweet price, probably for the elite


----------



## bhima

groucho69 said:


> Having sold this type, manufactured in China, I can tell you that QC can be non-existent. I have have had million $ returns, had them replace and still had to process another return. You tell the factory what is wrong with them and that it needs to be fixes fast and reshipped. The factory says "YES" and then ships product from the same batch with the same issues.



Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong type of connector, but when I see something like Campfire's connection to their IEM: https://campfireaudio.com/

I see a connector molded as one with the shell. The strain should all be in the actual cable itself unless you literally throw these things on the ground with hulk-like force.


----------



## RobinFood

bhima said:


> Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong type of connector, but when I see something like Campfire's connection to their IEM: https://campfireaudio.com/
> 
> I see a connector molded as one with the shell. The strain should all be in the actual cable itself unless you literally throw these things on the ground with hulk-like force.



Just check out "Shure se215 mmcx issues" on Google. From free spinning the mmcx eventually started cutting out, even though the mmcx was molded in the body. 
It also looks like the mmcx on all those earbuds is not molded in the bud, but just kind of glued on.

I don't see cables add inevitably breaking down. I've had 10 year old cables that still work like new. The secret is just treating the earbud better. If you often get the cables tangled then yeah, they won't last more than a few months. If you get a circular earphones case from the dollar store like this ... https://www.google.com/search?q=ear...hWNE4gKHWHuD9sQ_AUoAXoECA4QAg&biw=360&bih=630 ... And coil the wire around three fingers lightly before putting them in, you cable will never break. You will also have time not having to undue knots everytime you want to listen to music.

At the end of the day, I think a one dollar earphone case to protect 150 dollar earbuds is worth it, much more than relying on a false sense of security you get from mmcx connectors.


----------



## bhima

RobinFood said:


> Just check out "Shure se215 mmcx issues" on Google. From free spinning the mmcx eventually started cutting out, even though the mmcx was molded in the body.
> It also looks like the mmcx on all those earbuds is not molded in the bud, but just kind of glued on.
> 
> I don't see cables add inevitably breaking down. I've had 10 year old cables that still work like new. The secret is just treating the earbud better. If you often get the cables tangled then yeah, they won't last more than a few months. If you get a circular earphones case from the dollar store like this ... https://www.google.com/search?q=ear...hWNE4gKHWHuD9sQ_AUoAXoECA4QAg&biw=360&bih=630 ... And coil the wire around three fingers lightly before putting them in, you cable will never break. You will also have time not having to undue knots everytime you want to listen to music.
> ...



I do exactly this with all my good headphones. Still end up with a short in one of the ears after about a year. Funny thing is my cheapo headphones that I just toss around and tug don't seem to break as easily haha.


----------



## RobinFood

bhima said:


> I do exactly this with all my good headphones. Still end up with a short in one of the ears after about a year. Funny thing is my cheapo headphones that I just toss around and tug don't seem to break as easily haha.



Wow that's crazy. I literally have never broken a cable since I started doing that. I used to go through a cheap pair a month just throwing them tangled in my pants though.


----------



## groucho69

FLASH: Most of these are cheap connectors. I sold ones that were recommended for only 5 insertions. CHEAP! Manufacturing tolerances are not tight, and neither are the connectors. Matrox and ATI loved them for the price but they were never meant to be disconnected.


----------



## assassin10000

Except for the original ST-10 I've never had a problem with my MMCX earbuds or IEM's (including my original 2012 se215).

I also don't do much swapping (except a/b on occasion) and keep them stored nicely in a case. I never just wrapped them up and stuffed them in a pocket, bag, etc. 

With my BT20S now I prefer to use my buds as a TWS setup.


----------



## RobinFood

assassin10000 said:


> Except for the original ST-10 I've never had a problem with my MMCX earbuds or IEM's (including my original 2012 se215).
> 
> I also don't do much swapping (except a/b on occasion) and keep them stored nicely in a case. I never just wrapped them up and stuffed them in a pocket, bag, etc.
> 
> With my BT20S now I prefer to use my buds as a TWS setup.



Speak of the devil...


----------



## assassin10000

RobinFood said:


> Speak of the devil...



Doh!

Got soldering skills?

I was trying to 'rotate' the bt20s mmcx connectors 180 degrees and broke the wires internally. I had to replace the earhooks.


----------



## Sam L

Wow. I... Am.... Shook.... 

My snow lotus 1.0+'s just came in. I am blown away at the price to performance ratio these things exude. Amazing.

How am I just discovering the world of earbuds just now? Pk2' s will be in next week. Smabat s10 (silver edition) will roll in 2 or 3 weeks from now. Can't wait.


----------



## Slater (May 2, 2020)

I know the Headroom MS16 is a budget POS, and that there’s way better buds available. But I dug mine out of the junk drawer due to lockdown boredom and came up with a free upgrade that improves the sound 500%...

I already knew that popping off the mesh ‘grille’ on the back of the MS16 improves the sound. I ran it like that for a long time. The tiny pinholes in the mesh grille are extremely restrictive. When you remove the grille, the sound becomes more dynamic, bass is improved, and the hollow/‘head in a garbage can’ midrange that plagues the stock MS16 is removed. What’s underneath the grille is a vent hole that’s roughly 2mm.

Taking this concept even further, I figured that the MS16 driver would perform better if it had an even larger vent from which to breathe.

So I increased the rear hole to 4.0mm, and sure enough the sound improved *considerably*.



It is very easy to hear the sound difference, because while playing music you can gently cover the hole to varying degrees with very light pressure from your finger (just enough to cover the vent hole but not enough to affect the earbud seal).

It’s still a low end budget earbud, and it has flaws. But it is now much more enjoyable to listen to compared to stock.

Finally, the modded MS16 is pretty heavy on the bass, which overpowers the treble. So doughnut foam allows for more pronounced treble and better overall balance.

The best sound, however, is had by running with no foam at all and wearing the earbud sideways (perpendicular) in the ear.


----------



## RobinFood

assassin10000 said:


> Doh!
> 
> Got soldering skills?
> 
> I was trying to 'rotate' the bt20s mmcx connectors 180 degrees and broke the wires internally. I had to replace the earhooks.



I've got a lot of soldering stuff, watched a bunch of videos, practiced some, but I'm the worst at soldering.

My test cables look like Frankenstein monster barbed wire. I did accidentally fix my wife's laptop connector once, but I just can't merge cables together to save my life.


----------



## golov17

New one SWD2, 140 ohm, 999rmb


----------



## mochill

golov17 said:


> New one SWD2, 140 ohm, 999rmb


How does it compare the the dragon II


----------



## emusic13

How do people clean their earbuds? Im sure I'm not the only with this issue but I prefer mine foamless, so some of the holes became clogged.


----------



## RobinFood

emusic13 said:


> How do people clean their earbuds? Im sure I'm not the only with this issue but I prefer mine foamless, so some of the holes became clogged.



I soak a microfiber in hydrogen peroxide and go over any spots with earwax stuck in the grill. I let it sit face down for 5 minutes and then wipe it down with a dry microfiber clothe. Always unplug your buds when cleaning. Grill comes out clean, and then I just do an alcohol wipe down on all the surfaces.


----------



## golov17

mochill said:


> How does it compare the the dragon II


Dont know... only pics


----------



## willyboyaudio

emusic13 said:


> How do people clean their earbuds? Im sure I'm not the only with this issue but I prefer mine foamless, so some of the holes became clogged.


I use blu tack and press them against the holes. They came out like new. Applies also to your phones' charging port, volume buttons, speakers, etc.
Alcohol wipes can follow afterwards. Hope this helps!


----------



## bhima

Sam L said:


> Wow. I... Am.... Shook....
> 
> My snow lotus 1.0+'s just came in. I am blown away at the price to performance ratio these things exude. Amazing.
> 
> How am I just discovering the world of earbuds just now? Pk2' s will be in next week. Smabat s10 (silver edition) will roll in 2 or 3 weeks from now. Can't wait.


How's the fit on the snow lotus for extended listening? If its still comfortable to you, then you have a very wide world of earbuds to explore. I am one of the unlucky ones that loves these products, but can really only wear PK shells comfortably (and yes, that's with a bunch of different types of foams).


----------



## citral23

baskingshark said:


> Just to check with the rest of you friends, do u guys and gals prefer earbud cables with an inbuilt mic (if you have a choice from the seller)?
> 
> I don't have measuring gear, but I've seen some of my friends reproduce some increased resistance in the side of the IEM/earbud cables with a mic. And it may be a potential source of failure in the signal chain down the line, plus some sellers charge a dollar or two more for buds with mics. Though I know some of us need the mic for work and chat purposes, and to make the bud more multipurpose as such.



I just use a cheap mic'ed earbuds for chats and confcalls plugged in the inbuilt soundcard of the laptop or PC but to listen to music I use a dedicated soundcard and earphones that don't have a mic, don't see how that can benefit to the sound it's indeed more stuff in the line.

Wish I had one of those at home for lockdown, forgot how tiring long phone calls can be on the arms/shoulders. 

Ordered a nicehck b40 to remedy this.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

golov17 said:


> New one SWD2, 140 ohm, 999rmb


A pic of the backside of the box please. Thank you. Enjoy!


----------



## waynes world

Sam L said:


> Wow. I... Am.... Shook....
> 
> My snow lotus 1.0+'s just came in. I am blown away at the price to performance ratio these things exude. Amazing.
> 
> How am I just discovering the world of earbuds just now? Pk2' s will be in next week. Smabat s10 (silver edition) will roll in 2 or 3 weeks from now. Can't wait.



No! Don't get the Smabat's! They will ruin all of your other buds!

At least, that's what I tell myself to stop me from getting them lol.


----------



## baskingshark

Anybody tried the Yincrow RW9 bass edition?


----------



## ClieOS

baskingshark said:


> Anybody tried the Yincrow RW9 bass edition?



Don't know that RW9 even has a bass edition.


----------



## baskingshark

ClieOS said:


> Don't know that RW9 even has a bass edition.



Sorry meant the RW1000 bass version, not RW9


----------



## Alex.Grimm (May 4, 2020)

waynes world said:


> No! Don't get the Smabat's! They will ruin all of your other buds!
> 
> At least, that's what I tell myself to stop me from getting them lol.


You're wrong. I had green smabats, I tried to listen to them, I did not like them and I immediately sold them. I know people who prefer other options like penon, shozy, zen or willsound/vido instead of smabat. It all depends on the individual taste of different sound signatures, and this does not mean that you will like an earbuds that costs more, like some of not expensive ones.


----------



## Turbulance

Alex.Grimm said:


> You're wrong. I had green smabats, I tried to listen to them, I did not like them and I immediately sold them. I know people who prefer other options like penon, shozy, zen or willsound/vido instead of smabat. It all depends on the individual taste of different sound signatures, and this does not mean that you will like an earbuds that costs more, like some of not expensive ones.



In this game you should try never tell someone that they are wrong based on your personal experience. I gather you know that because you stated as much later in your post. 

As an example, I love my Smabat Green ST-10 and I found they improved with use but that doesn’t make you wrong for not liking yours.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Turbulance said:


> In this game you should try never tell someone that they are wrong based on your personal experience. I gather you know that because you stated as much later in your post.
> 
> As an example, I love my Smabat Green ST-10 and I found they improved with use but that doesn’t make you wrong for not liking yours.


You do not understand the essence of my post. I meant that buying smabats or other expensive earbuds with a 50/50 probability will violate all your past earbuds.  Because you may not like them, like any new earbuds that we buy for guessing.  Do not stop yourself from buying a new one, but this is always a risk, but it is progress and journey.


----------



## waynes world

Alex.Grimm said:


> You're wrong. I had green smabats, I tried to listen to them, I did not like them and I immediately sold them. I know people who prefer other options like penon, shozy, zen or willsound/vido instead of smabat. It all depends on the individual taste of different sound signatures, and this does not mean that you will like an earbuds that costs more, like some of not expensive ones.



Quit trying to save me money!   

Btw I understood your meaning. Even though I have some more expensive (and great) buds, I'm quite happy with my horde of budget buds and I still listen to them all of the time. Which is great because I can spend more time dwelling on which (more expensive) buds to take a risk on whenever the itch next takes hold. Luckily this thread is a great resource.

What was it about the Smabat's that didn't work for you?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

waynes world said:


> What was it about the Smabat's that didn't work for you?


I lacked warmth, weight and musicality, I did not enjoy music.  I plan to try smabat black silver or gold, they say the sound signature is changed there, maybe in st10s I will find what I was looking for in green


----------



## FastAndClean

the mids on ST10 are a bit dry, thin


----------



## Turbulance

Alex.Grimm said:


> You do not understand the essence of my post. I meant that buying smabats or other expensive earbuds with a 50/50 probability will violate all your past earbuds.  Because you may not like them, like any new earbuds that we buy for guessing.  Do not stop yourself from buying a new one, but this is always a risk, but it is progress and journey.



Oh. Sorry. But I still love my Smabat Greens…


----------



## Turbulance

Turbulance said:


> Oh. Sorry. But I still love my Smabat Greens…



Hum. I wonder what Smabat Greens are made of? …


----------



## bhima

Well, I pulled the trigger on the Final Audio E5000. I almost pulled the trigger on the Flares Pro 2 HD, but having the detachable cable terminated so far down was not desirable--plus they are out of stock.  The Final seems to tick all the boxes I want in a portable form factor (extreme build quality with solid detachable cable terminals, very easy to fit my weird ears--no idea why people buy Universal iems like Campfire, etc. with those annoying ergonomics). I know the sound signature is pretty darn far away from the Shozy BKs that I love, but I have been playing around with my Final E2000 using my Fiio E17K, and I am extremely impressed at how well these respond when I turn down bass by 4db and turn up treble by 2 db on the E17K. Midrange moves closer to where it should, note thickness is still there, though pleasant now--not obese as it is at stock. Timbre is much more natural too. If the cheapo E2000 can scale like this, I have pretty high hopes for the E5000.

Unfortunately, there was no earbud style portable headphone that met my criteria, so I had to go back to IEMs. Still, I'll add a review here of the E5000 vs. the Shozy BK for fun if anyone cares to read it.


----------



## mochill

bhima said:


> Well, I pulled the trigger on the Final Audio E5000. I almost pulled the trigger on the Flares Pro 2 HD, but having the detachable cable terminated so far down was not desirable--plus they are out of stock.  The Final seems to tick all the boxes I want in a portable form factor (extreme build quality with solid detachable cable terminals, very easy to fit my weird ears--no idea why people buy Universal iems like Campfire, etc. with those annoying ergonomics). I know the sound signature is pretty darn far away from the Shozy BKs that I love, but I have been playing around with my Final E2000 using my Fiio E17K, and I am extremely impressed at how well these respond when I turn down bass by 4db and turn up treble by 2 db on the E17K. Midrange moves closer to where it should, note thickness is still there, though pleasant now--not obese as it is at stock. Timbre is much more natural too. If the cheapo E2000 can scale like this, I have pretty high hopes for the E5000.
> 
> Unfortunately, there was no earbud style portable headphone that met my criteria, so I had to go back to IEMs. Still, I'll add a review here of the E5000 vs. the Shozy BK for fun if anyone cares to read it.


Have you tried fad piano forte ii?


----------



## bhima (May 4, 2020)

mochill said:


> Have you tried fad piano forte ii?


I haven't, but I gotta say they look somewhat problematic in terms of fit, and they don't have a detachable cable. I have owned other headphones with that type of form factor and it just took fiddling to get it to work. Now that I am working at home with my wife and kids, I need to be able to yoink out the earphone quickly, answer a question, etc. then put it right back in. I find these small bullet style iems or PK shells to be the most convenient for me as I can always find the fit really fast without thinking about it. Still, they look intriguing for sure! What's your take on them?

Somehow, I have found myself owning 3 different FAD headphones, though I only have 1 in my possession currently: E2000 which I ordered as sleeping iems since they disappear in my ears and offer some isolation that my earbuds don't offer. I ordered the Drop E500 for $17 since they seem to be a bit more neutralish according to reviews, and now I ordered their flagship in this series. I guess I became a FAD fan sorta overnight it seems haha.


----------



## RikudouGoku

bhima said:


> I haven't, but I gotta say they look somewhat problematic in terms of fit, and they don't have a detachable cable. I have owned other headphones with that type of form factor and it just took fiddling to get it to work. Now that I am working at home with my wife and kids, I need to be able to yoink out the earphone quickly, answer a question, etc. then put it right back in. I find these small bullet style iems or PK shells to be the most convenient for me as I can always find the fit really fast without thinking about it. Still, they look intriguing for sure! What's your take on them?
> 
> Somehow, I have found myself owning 3 different FAD headphones, though I only have 1 in my possession currently: E2000 which I ordered as sleeping iems since they disappear in my ears and offer some isolation that my earbuds don't offer. I ordered the Drop E500 for $17 since they seem to be a bit more neutralish according to reviews, and now I ordered their flagship in this series. I guess I became a FAD fan sorta overnight it seems haha.


Damn, that is a good price for the E500 since you are basically getting them for free (the Type E tips costs around 15 usd if im not wrong).


----------



## mochill

bhima said:


> I haven't, but I gotta say they look somewhat problematic in terms of fit, and they don't have a detachable cable. I have owned other headphones with that type of form factor and it just took fiddling to get it to work. Now that I am working at home with my wife and kids, I need to be able to yoink out the earphone quickly, answer a question, etc. then put it right back in. I find these small bullet style iems or PK shells to be the most convenient for me as I can always find the fit really fast without thinking about it. Still, they look intriguing for sure! What's your take on them?
> 
> Somehow, I have found myself owning 3 different FAD headphones, though I only have 1 in my possession currently: E2000 which I ordered as sleeping iems since they disappear in my ears and offer some isolation that my earbuds don't offer. I ordered the Drop E500 for $17 since they seem to be a bit more neutralish according to reviews, and now I ordered their flagship in this series. I guess I became a FAD fan sorta overnight it seems haha.


My first FAD iem was the e500 , the rest is history :-D


----------



## Slater

Any of you earbud guys have a VUNBUD or Sabia V6 you’d be interested in selling? If so, PM me. Thanks!


----------



## ClieOS

mochill said:


> Have you tried fad piano forte ii?



That's is the ergonomically worst earbuds I have ever own, bar none.

The fact that it doesn't sound good also doesn't help.


----------



## JackSkully

Any thoughts on OurArt Qj21 I was considering buying it but I'm not sure if I'll like the sound signature.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

NICEHCK Traceless earbud


Spoiler



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001007193752.html


----------



## SiggyFraud (May 6, 2020)

Alex.Grimm said:


> NICEHCK Traceless earbud
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Is it just me, or do these look like rebranded Vidos? Judging from the looks at least. And Vido just realeased a clear red & blue version. Coindidence?


----------



## KevDzn

Yeah, all the vidos colours are there. Traceless Vidos?


----------



## captione

Maybe Vido is supplying the earbuds? The red and blue Vidos instantly got sold out here and I don't see someone selling it anymore.


----------



## Promenadeplatz

Extreamly poor quality the Qian69 I received, the pads were dry like dust and dissolved when I put on over the buds. Don't recommend Qian anyway.


----------



## captione

Promenadeplatz said:


> Extreamly poor quality the Qian69 I received, the pads were dry like dust and dissolved when I put on over the buds. Don't recommend Qian anyway.


You should buy a pair of foams honestly. Hiegi foams are cheap, comes with a donut form and really good quality. 

I bought earbuds once with bundled foams, the other pair was red, and guess what? They stained my white earbuds because the pigment was starting to fade away.


----------



## ClieOS

captione said:


> Maybe Vido is supplying the earbuds? The red and blue Vidos instantly got sold out here and I don't see someone selling it anymore.



Actually Vido is a computer / Android tablet brand in China and doesn't make its own earbuds. The original Vido earbud is OEMed by another factory and supplied to Vido as their stock earbud on its various tablets / computers at one point. Traceless is made by the same factory -  the two uses the exact same driver and should sound exactly the same, just branded differently.


----------



## captione

ClieOS said:


> Actually Vido is a computer / Android tablet brand in China and doesn't make its own earbuds. The original Vido earbud is OEMed by another factory and supplied to Vido as their stock earbud on its various tablets / computers at one point. Traceless is made by the same factory -  the two uses the exact same driver and should sound exactly the same, just branded differently.


Very interesting. Thanks for clarifying!


----------



## jogawag (May 6, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> Actually Vido is a computer / Android tablet brand in China and doesn't make its own earbuds. The original Vido earbud is OEMed by another factory and supplied to Vido as their stock earbud on its various tablets / computers at one point. Traceless is made by the same factory -  the two uses the exact same driver and should sound exactly the same, just branded differently.



Hi, Mr. @ClieOS, you are very familiar with Vido.
So, I want to ask you about Vido.

I've seen to be written that the white (or red?) Vido sounds particularly good, is that just a rumor?

Also, I've seen that Vido and Yincrow X6 have almost the same FR graph. Do you know if they both have the same driver?


----------



## Alex.Grimm (May 6, 2020)

SiggyFraud said:


> Is it just me, or do these look like rebranded Vidos? Judging from the looks at least. And Vido just realeased a clear red & blue version. Coindidence?


Nickhck Traceless is as excellent as VIDO earbud .
The Customized verison : Clear red+clear blue is very attractive and special
if you love the { VIDO }, you must fall in love our { nicehck traceless }


Spoiler


----------



## baskingshark

Alex.Grimm said:


> Nickhck Traceless is as excellent as VIDO earbud .
> The Customized verison : Clear red+clear blue is very attractive and special
> if you love the { VIDO }, you must fall in love our { nicehck traceless }
> 
> ...



Is there any reason to get this since the VIDO is much cheaper?


----------



## snowmind

baskingshark said:


> Is there any reason to get this since the VIDO is much cheaper?



Considering that they just stamped their name and charged more without offering any benefits like a better cable, for example, my opinion is that it is not worth it. But if in your assessment you want to honor Mr. Jim Nicehck, go ahead. I'm just being cold and rational


----------



## Promenadeplatz

captione said:


> You should buy a pair of foams honestly. Hiegi foams are cheap, comes with a donut form and really good quality.
> 
> I bought earbuds once with bundled foams, the other pair was red, and guess what? They stained my white earbuds because the pigment was starting to fade away.



Thanks god I still have some from the last VE Monk+ purchase as they deliver 4-5 pairs of foams and they are still good! Will order those again!!!


----------



## ClieOS (May 6, 2020)

jogawag said:


> Hi, Mr. @ClieOS, you are very familiar with Vido.
> So, I want to ask you about Vido.
> 
> I've seen to be written that the white (or red?) Vido sounds particularly good, is that just a rumor?
> ...



I am by no mean Vido expert, nor own any white / red Vido to tell you that they are better or otherwsie. I only have the very frist version of Vido, in blue. I have ordered the new Traceless transparent red/blue though, but really more to keep an extra copy, besides the fact that I like the color scheme.

Never compared Vido to X6 directly before - but if they measured the same, then the logical conclusion should be that they use the same driver and even possibly come from the same OEM factory.


----------



## mochill

FAD piano forte ii is awesome , I don't understand what others saying that's it's horrible 🤔


----------



## jogawag

ClieOS said:


> I am by no mean Vido expert, nor own any white / red Vido to tell you that they are better or otherwsie. I only have the very frist version of Vido, in blue. I have ordered the new Traceless transparent red/blue though, but really more to keep an extra copy, besides the fact that I like the color scheme.
> 
> Never compared Vido to X6 directly before - but if they measured the same, then the logical conclusion should be that they use the same driver and even possibly come from the same OEM factory.


Thanks, Mr. @ClieOS.
So do you think Vido and Yincrow X6 have similar sound signatures?
I only have Vido, do you think it's worth buying an additional Yincrow X6?


----------



## ClieOS

jogawag said:


> Thanks, Mr. @ClieOS.
> So do you think Vido and Yincrow X6 have similar sound signatures?
> I only have Vido, do you think it's worth buying an additional Yincrow X6?



That graph say it all. The question you should be asking is what are you expected to gain with an X6?


----------



## mochill

Ok I think I have the piano forte i


----------



## bhima (May 6, 2020)

First impressions of the FAD E5000: I have no idea why people complain about these being dark. Maybe everyone else is just used to 267 BA drivers in their ears, but to my ears, these sound warm and velvety yet clear and extended. Timbre isn't overly darkened either (E2000 is darker to my ears, or if you've ever heard the Sennheiser HD598)--and I listen to some pretty bright/close to neutral headphones in the Shozy BK and AKG K7XX. Soundstage feels large too--at least as large as my AKG K7XX. This is because the AKG K7XX has all of its sound thrown back from your ears, so there isn't as much of a discernable placement of instruments close and far away. Its mostly just 4 ft-8ft, whereas the E5000 sound like they are between 1ft-5ft if that makes sense.

Will wait a few days to get some of the potential sunk cost fallacy from coloring an actual short comparison from the few headphones I have.


----------



## mochill

bhima said:


> First impressions of the FAD E5000: I have no idea why people complain about these being dark. Maybe everyone else is just used to 267 BA drivers in their ears, but to my ears, these sound warm and velvety yet clear and extended. Timbre isn't overly darkened either (E2000 is darker to my ears, or if you've ever heard the Sennheiser HD598)--and I listen to some pretty bright/close to neutral headphones in the Shozy BK and AKG K7XX. Soundstage feels large too--at least as large as my AKG K7XX. This is because the AKG K7XX has all of its sound thrown back from your ears, so there isn't as much of a discernable placement of instruments close and far away. Its mostly just 4 ft-8ft, whereas the E5000 sound like they are between 1ft-5ft if that makes sense.
> 
> Will wait a few days to get some of the potential sunk cost fallacy from coloring an actual short comparison from the few headphones I have.


Glad you like them


----------



## ClieOS

mochill said:


> Ok I think I have the piano forte i



IIRC, Piano Forte I was not a commercial model but a free gift for a magazine.


----------



## RobinFood

ClieOS said:


> IIRC, Piano Forte I was not a commercial model but a free gift for a magazine.



What are your thoughts on the other piano fortes? (VI, IX, X and so on)


----------



## ClieOS

RobinFood said:


> What are your thoughts on the other piano fortes? (VI, IX, X and so on)



I tried two (which I forgot which exact models they are) - I recalled my impression was: good sound with horrible fit, just as bad on pricing.


----------



## JackSkully

Thoughts on zoom Fred Pro???


----------



## SiggyFraud

I know it's already been confirmed by some users, but all Ali sellers who carry the Traceless also corroborate that they're just rebranded Vidos:


----------



## baskingshark

SiggyFraud said:


> I know it's already been confirmed by some users, but all Ali sellers who carry the Traceless also corroborate that they're just rebranded Vidos:



Yes agreed. I asked a few sellers on Aliexpress and they confirmed it is a Vido just with different brand.

Among the Vidos are there different sound signatures among the different colours?


----------



## GREQ

baskingshark said:


> Yes agreed. I asked a few sellers on Aliexpress and they confirmed it is a Vido just with different brand.
> 
> Among the Vidos are there different sound signatures among the different colours?


I've read many times people saying that the reds are more clear/detailed, but these impressions are non-correlative and unreliable.
Reds being the 'new' version also came with* new foams.*

Whenever I put new foams onto a bud the sound also becomes clearer.
Old foam makes them sound a bit bassier and smoother.

From my experience with blue, white and red vido, the only difference is manufacturing variations and age of foam... and the colour of the paint.


----------



## captione (May 7, 2020)

GREQ said:


> I've read many times people saying that the reds are more clear/detailed, but these impressions are non-correlative and unreliable.
> Reds being the 'new' version also came with* new foams.*
> 
> Whenever I put new foams onto a bud the sound also becomes clearer.
> ...


*Well, this question was already answered, how dumb of me. 

So it's basically the same thing with the same tuning, just with different foams. 

I'm planning to do a wood grain reshelled Vido this year and I was hoping I get something of a different flavour since I already have three pairs of white Vidos 😆


----------



## KevDzn (May 7, 2020)

If I'm not mistaken all the colors vido sounds different. So far I've got the blue (lotsa bass), white (slightly less bass) and red (the most balance). There's also the black which I don't have.

And I heard the latest red/blue ones are selling like hot cakes. So i assume these are even better than the reds.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (May 7, 2020)

Black Vido are the worst in the sound of little bass.
White Vido and Blue Vido are the same, such as we always knew them.
Red Vido bass is slightly smaller than white or blue, but the middle is cleaner and better.
Transparent Vido (red/blue) high frequencies are better


----------



## Promenadeplatz

SiggyFraud said:


> I know it's already been confirmed by some users, but all Ali sellers who carry the Traceless also corroborate that they're just rebranded Vidos:


No, but Chinese vendor folks tell you EVERYTHING you want to hear, that's all.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 7, 2020)

What comes to mind for an AIO *desktop dac(+hpa)* that would play nicely with earbuds from 16 to 600Ω with a sensitivity ranging from 93 up to 120 dB/mW?


----------



## Slater

Anyone ever try the MEMT X6S?


----------



## mochill (May 7, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> IIRC, Piano Forte I was not a commercial model but a free gift for a magazine.


----------



## Sam L (May 8, 2020)

K. My Pk2's just came in. At first listen they have better detail retrieval and a noticeably larger soundstage than the snow lotus 1+'s. But the snow lotus' are not far behind at all.

I have a general question. From the two earbuds I have, it seems they are both warmer than my iems. Is that a general observation between iems and earbuds?

Rambo II and smabat silvers still inbound but they'll take a good 3 weeks or so since they were purchased on aliexpress.


----------



## RobinFood

Sam L said:


> K. My Pk2's just came in. At first listen they have better detail retrieval and a noticeably larger soundstage than the snow lotus 1+'s. But the snow lotus' are not far behind at all.
> 
> I have a general question. From the two earbuds I have, it seems they are both warmer than my iems. Is that a general observation between iems and earbuds?
> 
> Rambo II and smabat silvers still inbound but since they be taking some time as they were purchased on aliexpress.



I think most buds are tuned warmer because a lot of bass gets lost because of the seal that is not as good as IEMs or a driver that is not as big as a headphone.

I do have some colder sounding earbuds, but when it is not done well the mids lose a lot of body. 

I think your Smabat will sound closer to your iem sound.


----------



## DBaldock9

Spent most of the day using either the VE Monk Lite (Silver/White, 120Ω), or the VE Monk Lite (Gold/Black, 40Ω) w/Mic & Volume Control. Started out with the Gold/Black (Donut Foams over Full Foams), connected to my work PC, and getting the Mic settings right to use it for WebEx & MS Teams online conferences. Then I switched over to the Silver/White (Donut Foams), and listened to some music. 
. 
The VE Monk Lite is a comfortable size, and both of them sound good.


----------



## cenizas

@ClieOS @golov17 What are your impressions of the swd3 compared to the turandot?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

WoodyLuvr said:


> What comes to mind for an AIO *desktop dac(+hpa)* that would play nicely with earbuds from 16 to 600Ω with a sensitivity ranging from 93 up to 120 dB/mW?


Maybe I didn't propose the topic/question well enough... here it goes for a second try.

If you wanted to sit at a desk and listen to your earbud collection via a PC-based music player or a desktop streaming device what *AIO Desktop DAC (+HPA) *would you want to use? Of course, please do take into consideration the wide range of impedance (16 to 600Ω) and sensitivities (~93 to ~120 dB/mW) that earbuds come in these days . Money no object. I am extremely curious to hear what others believe (or have found) an ultimate desk setup for *earbud* *only* listening would be.


----------



## golov17

cenizas said:


> @ClieOS @golov17 What are your impressions of the swd3 compared to the turandot?





Spoiler


----------



## jogawag (May 8, 2020)

golov17 said:


> Spoiler


Oh, Mr. @golov17, do you like mdr-e848 instead of mdr-e888? And more than SWD3?


----------



## tayo15

I have ve monk + and Sabia v6 as my daily drivers. Is there anything in the budget range that beat these or should I stay with these?? My budget is $50 - $80.


----------



## EagleWings

@golov17 , Does the D3 have fuller or thinner mids than the T-dot?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

tayo15 said:


> I have ve monk + and Sabia v6 as my daily drivers. Is there anything in the budget range that beat these or should I stay with these?? My budget is $50 - $80.



Tingo TC200, Ry4s Plus, Willsound MK2, HAANJIK Karawek, KubePlus, Smabat-ST10


----------



## golov17

jogawag said:


> Oh, Mr. @golov17, do you like mdr-e848 instead of mdr-e888? And more than SWD3?


Fuller? 848>SWD3>Turandot, but IMHO 

SWD3 has some neutrality in the middle, like Shozy BK, which is not always the place for a vocal lover.  Turandot have a festive detailed and sounds of bright side.  Different beasts


----------



## jogawag (May 8, 2020)

golov17 said:


> Fuller? 848>SWD3>Turandot, but IMHO
> 
> SWD3 has some neutrality in the middle, like Shozy BK, which is not always the place for a vocal lover.  Turandot have a festive detailed and sounds of bright side.  Different beasts


I'll ask you again, but MDR-E848> MDR-E888? People say that MDR-E888 is the best Earbuds of Sony.
I just bought the MDR-E848 for $ 80. Can I expect it?


----------



## golov17 (May 8, 2020)

jogawag said:


> I'll ask you again, but MDR-E848> MDR-E888? People say that MDR-E888 is the best Earbuds of Sony.
> I just bought the MDR-E848 for $ 80. Can I expect it?


there are different opinions about better or worse .. a matter of taste.. 
I really like, so I bought a second pair from Japan recently.


----------



## snowmind

Considering a neutral and warm sound signature, is Qian25 still the king of the budget?


----------



## jogawag (May 8, 2020)

golov17 said:


> there are different opinions about better or worse .. a matter of taste..
> I really like, so I bought a second pair from Japan recently.


Maybe you feel the MDR-e848 the best Earbuds, just as I feel the Docomo Earbuds the best Earbuds.
As an Earbuds for Sony (which may be fake?), I have MDR-e808 + and I like it.
I bought the MDR-e848 at the next Sony Earbuds for a very high price. But in your answer, I'm glad I could expect it.


----------



## waynes world

snowmind said:


> Considering a neutral and warm sound signature, is Qian25 still the king of the budget?



There is no king. There are many kings.


----------



## tayo15

Alex.Grimm said:


> Tingo TC200, Ry4s Plus, Willsound MK2, HAANJIK Karawek, KubePlus, Smabat-ST10



thank you, so based on this list, which should I chose if I want an earbud that is a direct upgrade over the zen monk, while being comfortable and not requiring foam donuts? Thank you in advance!


----------



## snowmind

waynes world said:


> There is no king. There are many kings.



This is encouraging, mention these models   

For example, i have buds that provide great retrieval of details, but are of another type of sound signature.


----------



## waynes world

snowmind said:


> This is encouraging, mention these models
> 
> For example, i have buds that provide great retrieval of details, but are of another type of sound signature.



I have the Qian 39 (I think it's good, but for my tastes lacks some dynamics and bass). But I'm not familiar with the Qian 25 sound signature, so sorry, I can't help you. Maybe someone else can chime in.


----------



## waynes world

tayo15 said:


> thank you, so based on this list, which should I chose if I want an earbud that is a direct upgrade over the zen monk, while being comfortable and not requiring foam donuts? Thank you in advance!



When you say "not requiring foam donuts", do you mean "no foams at all"? If so, that's where it's going to get tricky for you. Most buds are meant to be used with foams (to alter the sound, and mainly to get a good seal to get the best sound possible). I use foams on all of my buds except for the Zen V2 and the Mixx Tribute (UK budget wonders lol). Good luck!


----------



## Slater

Speaking of foams, is there a good type of foam from Aliexpress you guys use?

I saw a Venture Electronics assortment kit with a few pairs of varying colors and some plain ones and some doughnuts. But I was wondering if there was any better options.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Speaking of foams, is there a good type of foam from Aliexpress you guys use?
> 
> I saw a Venture Electronics assortment kit with a few pairs of varying colors and some plain ones and some doughnuts. But I was wondering if there was any better options.


Trig Rain foams on aliexpress.They come in many colors.


----------



## digititus

Slater said:


> Speaking of foams, is there a good type of foam from Aliexpress you guys use?
> 
> I saw a Venture Electronics assortment kit with a few pairs of varying colors and some plain ones and some doughnuts. But I was wondering if there was any better options.


Search for "Trig Rain Official Store" on AE. They will have you covered.


----------



## digititus

Beaten to it!


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Slater said:


> I saw a Venture Electronics assortment kit with a few pairs of varying colors and some plain ones and some doughnuts. But I was wondering if there was any better options.


No


----------



## assassin10000

Slater said:


> Speaking of foams, is there a good type of foam from Aliexpress you guys use?
> 
> I saw a Venture Electronics assortment kit with a few pairs of varying colors and some plain ones and some doughnuts. But I was wondering if there was any better options.



As others said, trigrain is good.

If you want some slightly higher quantities of the thicker ones (in black only) for the same or cheaper, I found these to be the same as the trigrain ones.

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32607003829.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/50-...ns-bud-Headphone-Covers-Tips/32607003829.html


Foam info:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15581039


----------



## tayo15

waynes world said:


> When you say "not requiring foam donuts", do you mean "no foams at all"? If so, that's where it's going to get tricky for you. Most buds are meant to be used with foams (to alter the sound, and mainly to get a good seal to get the best sound possible). I use foams on all of my buds except for the Zen V2 and the Mixx Tribute (UK budget wonders lol). Good luck!



I liked the ve monks without the foams. That being said I like their signature. What earbuds would be the next step at $50 - $80 range?? Even with the foams.


----------



## Promenadeplatz

Smabat pm-10


----------



## jogawag

mbwilson111 said:


> Trig Rain foams on aliexpress.They come in many colors.



We can buy regular foam and donut foam at the link below at Trig Rainh.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32671911259.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32683389893.html

But only the red donut foam is temporarily out of stock (more than a month already!).

So we can buy donut foamat FAAEAL at the link below.
This donut foam is a little xpensive and the quality is a little lower, but it can be used for the time being.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32675085018.html


----------



## Slater

jogawag said:


> We can buy regular foam and donut foam at the link below at Trig Rainh.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32671911259.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32683389893.html
> 
> ...



Since they are out of red doughnuts,  I will just buy the regular foam and make some of them into doughnuts. I can use a punch tool and make a hole in the center.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Slater said:


> Speaking of foams, is there a good type of foam from Aliexpress you guys use?
> 
> I saw a Venture Electronics assortment kit with a few pairs of varying colors and some plain ones and some doughnuts. But I was wondering if there was any better options.





WoodyLuvr said:


> I have tried nearly everything under the moon when it comes to earbud foams (covers/pads) the past one and a half years. Besides thickness (thin, medium, thick); gauge (small vs large hole); style (full vs. donut); and color (a plethora of available colors... no exaggeration here) I rarely have come across any real major difference between foam brands. Notably, my best foams have been the cheapest ones that I have bought off AliExpress in bulk... go figure! Yes, there have been a few (a very few) that were poorly made but the ultra-common consistency in materials used has led me to believe that only a handful of factories are actually manufacturing them.


Trig Rain on aliExpress (as recommended by so many others before me) have been good with only a few duds here and there.

Have any of you really noticed , in general, a glaring difference in quality of foams though? I am honestly beginning to believe that these are made in only one or two factories which supply the world.


----------



## CT007 (May 9, 2020)

Toneking MrZ Tomahawk came in yesterday. It sounds really good! Definitely the best earbud I've heard so far, with Moondrop Nameless still coming in the mail yet. I'm quite pleased with it, though it's just a touch too hot for bright music without EQ(I suspect a small treble spike). Really nice, thick mid bass!

RW-9
RW-1000 BE
Monk+


----------



## baskingshark

CT007 said:


> Toneking MrZ Tomahawk came in yesterday. It sounds really good! Definitely the best earbud I've heard yet, with Moondrop Nameless still coming in the mail yet. I'm quite pleased with it, though it's a little too hot for bright music without EQ. Really nice, thick mid bass!
> 
> RW-9
> RW-1000 BE
> ...



**** soundmagic E10 and NiceHCK EP10 are IEMs.






IEMS (picture on the right) sit within the ear canal whereas earbuds are the picture on the left where the transducer doesn't really enter the ear canal.


----------



## RobinFood

WoodyLuvr said:


> Trig Rain on aliExpress (as recommended by so many others before me) have been good with only a few duds here and there.
> 
> Have any of you really noticed , in general, a glaring difference in quality of foams though? I am honestly beginning to believe that these are made in only one or two factories which supply the world.



I have a pack of the famous thin foams. They come in packs of 100 but tear easily and there are a few duds in the pack.

The VE foams are very different, and almost feel like they have some nylon in there.

I also got thick foams when I bought the yincrow x6 that feel like they are made of felt.

All very different, and they all affect the sound differently. Thin foams are my favorite but they break down pretty fast. Luckily the bag never seems to shrink.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 9, 2020)

RobinFood said:


> I have a pack of the famous thin foams. They come in packs of 100 but tear easily and there are a few duds in the pack.
> 
> The VE foams are very different, and almost feel like they have some nylon in there.
> 
> ...


Felt and nylon... I don't think I have yet come across foams like this. Could it be at all possible that you are simply mistaking thickness and gauge as a material difference? I myself have noticed that the thicker foams can be more springy/spongy feeling while the lower gauge (more porous) foams seem stiffer/harder... so I definitely could see why one could think that it is different material composition. I may be totally wrong though... just an observation. Very interested in hearing your and others feedback on it.


----------



## waynes world

waynes world said:


> Is it just me, or are the K's 64's really good? Sheesh, $8. I hadn't listened to them in a while, but they're great. I must admit, it makes me interested in (and scared of) their other offerings!



I hadn't listened to the K 64's in a while, but I did so tonight. The wise man who said those wise words above almost 1 year ago was correct then, and is still correct now!


----------



## DAndrew

Hello everyone! Its been some time since I've been here. Just wanted to put a little project I am starting here. 

So I have found this aiwa and was very excited about it...then I got really disappointed. It's rather awful sounding with a sound alike a very old radio, perhaps that was intended? Anyways I have to say these are very, very comfortable and the shell seems interesting so I will retrofit it with some new drivers I am working on. 
I took it apart to look at the drivers and they are pretty standard. Will try replacing the membrane with one I've been working on and see how that changes sound, but the magnet in these drivers is very weak so I am not sure I will get a good result.

Will post when I am done


----------



## Alex.Grimm (May 9, 2020)

DAndrew said:


> So I have found this aiwa and was very excited about it...then I got really disappointed. It's rather awful sounding with a sound alike a very old radio


I have the same, bad sound deaf


Spoiler


----------



## j4100

waynes world said:


> I hadn't listened to the K 64's in a while, but I did so tonight. The wise man who said those wise words above almost 1 year ago was correct then, and is still correct now!



My K64s are at work. Haven't seen them in 7 weeks. Sad face

However, not like I'm short of earbuds


----------



## j4100

WoodyLuvr said:


> Maybe I didn't propose the topic/question well enough... here it goes for a second try.
> 
> If you wanted to sit at a desk and listen to your earbud collection via a PC-based music player or a desktop streaming device what *AIO Desktop DAC (+HPA) *would you want to use? Of course, please do take into consideration the wide range of impedance (16 to 600Ω) and sensitivities (~93 to ~120 dB/mW) that earbuds come in these days . Money no object. I am extremely curious to hear what others believe (or have found) an ultimate desk setup for *earbud* *only* listening would be.



Me personally? I run my pc into an Audiolab M-DAC with aftermarket power supply, then through my Cyrus Straightline->Densen B300->Shahinian Arcs

The M-DAC has a 1/4" headphone input, so I use an adapter. Makes me happy. Good luck with your search.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

waynes world said:


> Is it just me, or are the K's 64's really good? Sheesh, $8. I hadn't listened to them in a while, but they're great. I must admit, it makes me interested in (and scared of) their other offerings!


Which one 64? K's 64 ohm or K's Earphone 64U or K's 64s?


----------



## mochill

DAndrew said:


> Hello everyone! Its been some time since I've been here. Just wanted to put a little project I am starting here.
> 
> So I have found this aiwa and was very excited about it...then I got really disappointed. It's rather awful sounding with a sound alike a very old radio, perhaps that was intended? Anyways I have to say these are very, very comfortable and the shell seems interesting so I will retrofit it with some new drivers I am working on.
> I took it apart to look at the drivers and they are pretty standard. Will try replacing the membrane with one I've been working on and see how that changes sound, but the magnet in these drivers is very weak so I am not sure I will get a good result.
> ...





Alex.Grimm said:


> I have the same, bad sound deaf
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Those are expensive now


----------



## ClieOS

DAndrew said:


> So I have found this aiwa and was very excited about it...then I got really disappointed. It's rather awful sounding with a sound alike a very old radio, perhaps that was intended?




...or maybe they are just fake. Aiwa earbuds were already widely counterfeited before the company went under.


----------



## mochill

ClieOS said:


> ...or maybe they are just fake. Aiwa earbuds were already widely counterfeited before the company went under.


Thanks for the information , it would be sad to buy one only to find out that it is fake


----------



## ClieOS

mochill said:


> Thanks for the information , it would be sad to buy one only to find out that it is fake



Old Sony and Aiwa are two of the most counterfeited earbuds brand going back to the 90s. So even if it looks old and has old, degraded cable and design, they could still be just new old 'fake' stock. You can only have better confidence if they come from very reliable source, but those often come with very high price tag, easily going from $100~200 to as high as >$500. If you consider that most of these earbuds were sold for well under $50 at its days, you are definitely paying more for the nostalgic factor rather than SQ.


----------



## Slater

ClieOS said:


> If you consider that most of these earbuds were sold for well under $50 at its days, you are definitely paying more for the nostalgic factor rather than SQ.



I agree.

A few years ago I bought a NIB vintage Sony MDR-W20G. I liked it so much I looked for another one, and was shocked to see USED ones were going for stupid ridiculous prices ($150-$200). It was obvious the inflated prices were due to nostalgia factor, because no way in heck is the Sony MDR-W20G worth that kind cheddar.


----------



## genck (May 9, 2020)

Slater said:


> I agree.
> 
> A few years ago I bought a NIB vintage Sony MDR-W20G. I liked it so much I looked for another one, and was shocked to see USED ones were going for stupid ridiculous prices ($150-$200). It was obvious the inflated prices were due to nostalgia factor, because no way in heck is the Sony MDR-W20G worth that kind cheddar.


Same thing happened with the Sony MDR V6, the lowest I see on ebay is $200. I got mine for $80 only 3-4 years ago. lol
edit: new


----------



## mochill

Slater said:


> I agree.
> 
> A few years ago I bought a NIB vintage Sony MDR-W20G. I liked it so much I looked for another one, and was shocked to see USED ones were going for stupid ridiculous prices ($150-$200). It was obvious the inflated prices were due to nostalgia factor, because no way in heck is the Sony MDR-W20G worth that kind cheddar.


I have some collector Sony stuff  , only one I overpaid (xb90ex)


----------



## waynes world

Alex.Grimm said:


> Which one 64? K's 64 ohm or K's Earphone 64U or K's 64s?



64 ohm:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32780855048.html


----------



## Alex.Grimm (May 10, 2020)

waynes world said:


> 64 ohm:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32780855048.html


There were such K's 64 earbuds in our company of friends. Nobody liked. Recommend skipping this model


----------



## suicideup

ClieOS said:


> PH-10 is a very well made earbud, consider that it only costs $10. It just lacks a bit of airiness and detail to make it to the next level.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...



Good Day! What's the Sound of the Ocean Pearl OP139? I can't find any reviews/ impressions of this specific earbud. Thanks!


----------



## ClieOS

suicideup said:


> Good Day! What's the Sound of the Ocean Pearl OP139? I can't find any reviews/ impressions of this specific earbud. Thanks!



Warm, a bit on the full and fun side of things. A bit like the original VE Monk, but not quite as good. Still, it is worth the $5.7 that I paid for, though the cable does look cheap.


----------



## jogawag (May 11, 2020)

golov17 said:


> there are different opinions about better or worse .. a matter of taste..
> I really like, so I bought a second pair from Japan recently.



An unused vintage model Mdr-e848 (about $ 80) arrived at my house and listened for about 18 hours.
The soundstage is wide, transparent sounding, and the double foams provide ample bass, so I'm very happy with this Mdr-e848 as I expected. And I have listened to Turandot and IMHO the Mdr-e848 is certainly better than Turandot.
In my ranking this Mdr-e848 was ranked second after Docomo's earphones!

Sony has Mdr-e868 (a price of about $ 100) and Mdr-e888 (a premium price of about $ 300-400) as high-end models of Mdr-e848.
And according to two old writing on the net, "if the sound quality of the Mdr-e868 is 100, the Mdr-e868's is 70 and the Mdr-e848's is 50".
So I set my next target to Mdr-e888 or Mdr-e868.

Sorry for the dark photo.


----------



## suicideup

Good Day! I am new here in HeadFi and I am starting my Earbud Journey. So recently I found these Transcend Earbuds here in our online shop. I did not find any sound impressions/ reviews regarding on this specific earbud. Does anyone know the sound of this one? Any help will be really appreciated. Thanks!

(https://shopee.ph/Transcend-High-Fidelity-Flat-Head-HiFi-Bass-Sound-Earbuds-i.64655310.1192798836)


----------



## Alex.Grimm

suicideup said:


> Good Day! I am new here in HeadFi and I am starting my Earbud Journey. So recently I found these Transcend Earbuds here in our online shop. I did not find any sound impressions/ reviews regarding on this specific earbud. Does anyone know the sound of this one? Any help will be really appreciated. Thanks!
> 
> (https://shopee.ph/Transcend-High-Fidelity-Flat-Head-HiFi-Bass-Sound-Earbuds-i.64655310.1192798836)



I have one, nice sound, need good dap to drive


----------



## suicideup

Alex.Grimm said:


> I have one, nice sound, need good dap to drive


Good to hear! How's the sound? is it bassy? Warm?


----------



## jogawag

suicideup said:


> Good to hear! How's the sound? is it bassy? Warm?


I have a completely different opinion.
I used to have some Transcend DAPs and their Earbuds.
The Transcend Earbuds Shell is the same as the AKG's famous K312 / K314 Earbuds, but the sound quality is different from that of the AKG, they are crisp and the bass is thin.
Unfortunately, the Earbuds were basically just a DAP bonus and not something I could recommend to many people...


----------



## suicideup

jogawag said:


> I have a completely different opinion.
> I used to have some Transcend DAPs and their Earbuds.
> The Transcend Earbuds Shell is the same as the AKG's famous K312 / K314 Earbuds, but the sound quality is different from that of the AKG, they are crisp and the bass is thin.
> Unfortunately, the Earbuds were basically just a DAP bonus and not something I could recommend to many people...


I see, the closest earbuds that have the same shell is the AKGs and the TY Hi-Z 300 ohms. Very interesting


----------



## Alex.Grimm

suicideup said:


> Good to hear! How's the sound? is it bassy? Warm?


Yep, The sound is a little better than Edifier P180/H180/K180, Philips SHE3800. If the price is very low, you can try.


----------



## DAndrew

mochill said:


> Those are expensive now



That particular model really isnt, well it depends on your definition of expensive


----------



## DAndrew

ClieOS said:


> ...or maybe they are just fake. Aiwa earbuds were already widely counterfeited before the company went under.




I really doubt they were fake, lets not pretend everything aiwa and sony made are gold, just because its vintage doesnt mean it cant be crap. That particular model is just that, crap.


----------



## DAndrew

mochill said:


> Thanks for the information , it would be sad to buy one only to find out that it is fake



You cant really be sure of that, just think of it as that filtering has already been done. Who would keep a crappy fake earbud of all things to listen to for such a long period of time only to sell it on ebay for a profit 20~ years later? If its not a pristine NOS from somewhere in China I would not worry about it too much...

I cant even remember if I ever saw someone complain that they got a fake vintage bud, its not even worth it to think about it unless you are getting the really expensive sony/technics/aiwa buds.


----------



## ClieOS

DAndrew said:


> I really doubt they were fake, lets not pretend everything aiwa and sony made are gold, just because its vintage doesnt mean it cant be crap. That particular model is just that, crap.



The point is there is just no way to tell. There were so many fake back then that some people thought they were truly owning the real thing only to find out they are fake years later, if at all.

In fact, just a few years ago counterfeiters get so good that Shure engineer can't tell just by looking on whether the transparent SE215 sent back for warranty was real or not.


----------



## DAndrew

ClieOS said:


> The point is there is just no way to tell. There were so many fake back then that some people thought they were truly owning the real thing only to find out they are fake years later, if at all.
> 
> In fact, just a few years ago counterfeiters get so good that Shure engineer can't tell just by looking on whether the transparent SE215 sent back for warranty was real or not.



I brought that up in another reply. It's only my opinion but using the metric "if it doesnt sound good its a fake" seems a bit biased. I honestly have not seen a post about fake vintage earbuds, it may have happened then, but I doubt that many fakes survived...people that tend to keep vintage audio know what they have.

"Just a few years ago" is not in the '80 or '90 when the technology wasnt readily available for everyone to make the high ( or low ) quality diaphragms and exotic materials they used for they higher end buds...

You cant judge if a product is fake or not just by looking at the shell, the whole point of counterfeits is to make it dirt cheap for a profit..they WILL cut corners somewhere, else they would just release the same/better product at the same/cheaper price....free market and all that

I've seen people praise everything ( especially on the facebook page ) and it almost seems to fit an agenda.... /rant*


----------



## Sam L (May 11, 2020)

DBaldock9 said:


> Spent most of the day using either the VE Monk Lite (Silver/White, 120Ω), or the VE Monk Lite (Gold/Black, 40Ω) w/Mic & Volume Control. Started out with the Gold/Black (Donut Foams over Full Foams), connected to my work PC, and getting the Mic settings right to use it for WebEx & MS Teams online conferences. Then I switched over to the Silver/White (Donut Foams), and listened to some music.
> .
> The VE Monk Lite is a comfortable size, and both of them sound good.


Is the VE model with mic still available? Could not find it on Amazon or aliexpress.


----------



## ClieOS (May 11, 2020)

DAndrew said:


> I brought that up in another reply. It's only my opinion but using the metric "if it doesnt sound good its a fake" seems a bit biased. I honestly have not seen a post about fake vintage earbuds, it may have happened then, but I doubt that many fakes survived...people that tend to keep vintage audio know what they have.
> ....



I think you might have skipped to a few words out of my first reply. Allow me to repost them so you can read it again:



ClieOS said:


> ...or *maybe* they are just fake. Aiwa earbuds were already widely counterfeited before the company went under.



I have been in the earbuds scene long enough to see really excellently faked earbuds around, from decades ago. They ain't  nearly as commonly discussed here as they are in Taobao / among Chinese earbuds lover as those are issues much closer to their home. I have seen example of very well made fake earbuds being sold a long time ago, from China to oversea market, got picked up by unsuspected international buyer and then only to be resold back to vintage earbuds collector in China years later to be discovered as fake, as it just just so happened the collector already owns a pair of the real earbud and able to compare it to the fake. Assuming fake earbuds must have cut corner is to me not really an proof of anything. Sure, there are many cheap forgery, but it doesn't mean the wasn't any good forgery either. *I am not saying what you have must absolutely be fake, just that it is a possibility.*


----------



## DBaldock9 (May 11, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Is the VE model with mic still available? Could not find it on Amazon or aliexpress.



When I bought my set of Monk Lite w/Mic, they were ordered from the VE website, but it looks like they aren't selling / shipping from the website right now -
https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=24

*EDIT:  *VE used to sell a 3-Button Android Controller (that's the one I have) - but now they only sell a 3-Button iPhone controller. I believe the Mic works on either type of phone, but the Volume Control only works on iPhones.


----------



## larry piencenaves

Hey guys need some help here, hope anyone could answer, thanks

So, Ive got a soldering iron which could go from 100-450 degree celsius, how much only is needed when I solder my earphone driver to wires?. I usually go up to 350 on full sized headphone drivers but I dont know with this earbud driver ones.


----------



## assassin10000

larry piencenaves said:


> Hey guys need some help here, hope anyone could answer, thanks
> 
> So, Ive got a soldering iron which could go from 100-450 degree celsius, how much only is needed when I solder my earphone driver to wires?. I usually go up to 350 on full sized headphone drivers but I dont know with this earbud driver ones.



If you're building earbuds a good resource here is this thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/


Heat is determined by the solder used. You could test what solder you have to find the temp above the solders melting point, where it melts/flows quickly without having to maintain contact. Meaning you can dab the solder to the iron and it will melt immediately.

You want to apply the least amount of time of contact with the soldering iron to the earbud drivers. Heat can and if you are not careful, will damage them. 

I would highly recommend tinning the wires first and when soldering have the iron at temp. Then while holding the wire on the connection point, touch the iron to them just long enough for the solder to flow and connect them. Immediately remove the iron and blow across the driver a few times, this helps with temperature control. Then repeat for the other side.


----------



## RikudouGoku

This song is amazing on the Moondrop Nameless: 

not a problem with the bass either if there is no bass in the song


----------



## 531713 (May 12, 2020)

Willber said:


> Quick answer - they use the same housing.
> I prefer (as I've posted before) the SL 1.0 but would say that the RY4S UE has marginally the better bass definition.
> But the SL is the only bud that I prefer to my AKG K702 which cost 20x the price!


----------



## 531713 (May 12, 2020)

DBaldock9 said:


> Have you had any air traffic controller strikes?


----------



## 531713

mbwilson111 said:


> Two weeks ago my FENGRU DIY EMX500 Bro left the country.  Today it arrived in this country.  That was one long flight!!!!!


Hello, i´m new in the forum and was looking for some info about the fengru EMX 500 Bro. Could you please tell me how does it sound compared to the regular EMX 500? Don´t know which one to get on aliexpress, thanks!


----------



## mbwilson111

Igorfi said:


> Hello, i´m new in the forum and was looking for some info about the fengru EMX 500 Bro. Could you please tell me how does it sound compared to the regular EMX 500? Don´t know which one to get on aliexpress, thanks!



I have not listened to the regular exm500


----------



## 531713

Ok, and hows the sound on the bros? Thanks


----------



## mbwilson111

Igorfi said:


> Ok, and hows the sound on the bros? Thanks


I remember it was good..  That is a very old post you quoted. I hope someone else will answer.  Usually I would get them out and have a listen but I can't.  I have not been able to enjoy music since my husband @HungryPanda died from Covid 19 on April 15th.  It will be long time until I can fully participate here.  I have noticed that most threads ae quieter during this difficult time.


----------



## fleasbaby

mbwilson111 said:


> I remember it was good..  That is a very old post you quoted. I hope someone else will answer.  Usually I would get them out and have a listen but I can't.  I have not been able to enjoy music since my husband @HungryPanda died from Covid 19 on April 15th.  It will be long time until I can fully participate here.  I have noticed that most threads ae quieter during this difficult time.



Please accept my deepest condolences. I am terribly sorry to hear about his passing. I have lurked on this thread for a long time, and always appreciated that there was a husband and wife duo on here, having fun and contributing so actively.


----------



## 531713

mbwilson111 said:


> I remember it was good..  That is a very old post you quoted. I hope someone else will answer.  Usually I would get them out and have a listen but I can't.  I have not been able to enjoy music since my husband @HungryPanda died from Covid 19 on April 15th.  It will be long time until I can fully participate here.  I have noticed that most threads ae quieter during this difficult time.


Oh, my... I´m sorry, I didn´t know... Thanks for the answer, i really appreciate.


----------



## F700 (May 12, 2020)

Hi there

I am settled with IEMs and DAPs, but I would like to try some earbuds 

I have no idea what to expect, and this is exciting! I am sure that one or two experts on that thread could help me a bit.

My criteria, in order of priority:

- Budget USD 200.-... or even a bit more for a true gem
- Sound signature should not be too bright, I trade some top end airness and detail retrieval at the benefit of a nice warm & cozy sound
- Stock cable of sufficient quality (non-removable don't bother me, if the quality is there)
- Isolation? Sound can leak, but maybe not like an AKG K1000 

Well, that's all. Feel free to bring other topic on the table or something I might have forgotten.

Thanks a lot in advance for your wise advices and recommandation. Where I live, there are absolute zero chances to try any model. It will be a blind purchase, hence my trust in you, guys and girls.

Take care


----------



## F700

mbwilson111 said:


> I remember it was good..  That is a very old post you quoted. I hope someone else will answer.  Usually I would get them out and have a listen but I can't.  I have not been able to enjoy music since my husband @HungryPanda died from Covid 19 on April 15th.  It will be long time until I can fully participate here.  I have noticed that most threads ae quieter during this difficult time.


@mbwilson111 : please accept my sincere condoleances... Words are difficult to be found in these circumstances. Very sorry to hear that...


----------



## assassin10000

F700 said:


> Hi there
> 
> I am settled with IEMs and DAPs, but I would like to try some earbuds
> 
> ...



Warm but good sound:

K's LBB (little black bell or little bell), non removable cable.
BK2, has MMCX cable.

Willsound is also reportedly good, I don't have them personally. Plenty of info if you search this thread (mk2 and mk32 were the popular ones iirc).


----------



## F700

assassin10000 said:


> Warm but good sound:
> 
> K's LBB (little black bell or little bell), non removable cable.
> BK2, has MMCX cable.
> ...


Thanks a lot for your input. Much appreciated. To be honest, I am a bit lazy to go such a long thread, I am more active on other ones. That's the reason I am asking for advices. 

I will check your recommandation. 

Stay safe


----------



## DBaldock9

F700 said:


> Hi there
> 
> I am settled with IEMs and DAPs, but I would like to try some earbuds
> 
> ...



If you've got a Facebook account, try contacting Wong Kuan Wae [ https://www.facebook.com/wkuanwae ], and he can assemble some of his Blur earbuds for you, that will provide the type of sound you desire.


----------



## F700

DBaldock9 said:


> If you've got a Facebook account, try contacting Wong Kuan Wae [ https://www.facebook.com/wkuanwae ], and he can assemble some of his Blur earbuds for you, that will provide the type of sound you desire.


Ok, this is next level advice, thanks a lot Sir. I have no social media account, but I can use my wife's one. It wouldn't be the 1st time (with her agreement of course). 

Really nice input, merci beaucoup


----------



## DBaldock9

F700 said:


> Ok, this is next level advice, thanks a lot Sir. I have no social media account, but I can use my wife's one. It wouldn't be the 1st time (with her agreement of course).
> 
> Really nice input, merci beaucoup



I believe that Wong can also be contacted through his wife's Instagram account [ https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/hennagaijin/ ].
There are certainly photos of his earbuds on her account.


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> This song is amazing on the Moondrop Nameless:
> 
> not a problem with the bass either if there is no bass in the song




Does the Moondrop Nameless take well to EQing up the bass frequencies?




F700 said:


> Hi there
> 
> I am settled with IEMs and DAPs, but I would like to try some earbuds
> 
> ...



I think u can try the BK2, around $21 - 22 USD on aliexpress usually, comes with detachable MMCX cable, good technicalities, balanced sound signature with mild upper mids boost. Very comfortable and light, legit timbre. No harsh peaks/sibilance. Only issue is the soundstage is average compared to other earbuds, and subbass is weak (this subbass issue is not uncommon in earbuds due to the lack of isolation).

Isolation is gonna be a big con in majority of earbuds as the transducer is not inside the ear canal per se. Sound might leak and u might also be tempted to drive up the volume in noisy environments/transit, so IMO earbuds are best suited to be used at home in quiet environments. I remember u are an IEM connoisseur, so you will probably notice this stark difference in isolation straight away. But most buds beat IEMs in the area of soundstage, so courses for horses.


----------



## assassin10000

So, I'm finally discovering how good the Yuin PK2's really are. Only after transplanting them in a different shell w/MMCX. (The original shells were sold to someone to repair a PK1.)





PK2 on the right.



They have a warm, analogue sound with good bass and lower mid-range. They're not muddy but its got some heft to it. Upper mids and treble is smooth and treble leans towards almost too polite but still carries some detail. Unfortunately sub-bass below 42-45hz is rolled off, as typical of smaller 14.8mm drivers. 

These things excel at rock genres. Sure, they aren't as resolving as some newer/higher end stuff, but it's not anywhere near bad either. Just 1 tier down (4 of 5). The mids/highs are responsive to EQ, if you wish to change the signature. I tend to prefer a more balanced signature, so I EQ'ed them to where I enjoy them.

This was a pleasant surprise for me, as I don't recall them being this good. I'm thinking either the cable wasn't good or the apple usb-c to 3.5mm wasn't driving these well enough. Another plus of this transplant, is these are known for cable failure, which will no longer be an issue . 


Anyone able to confirm if the pictured drivers are the new or old/original batch?


----------



## Slater

assassin10000 said:


> So, I'm finally discovering how good the Yuin PK2's really are. Only after transplanting them in a different shell w/MMCX. (The original shells were sold to someone to repair a PK1.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I like the look of those new shells. Care to share a link where you got them from?


----------



## assassin10000

Slater said:


> I like the look of those new shells. Care to share a link where you got them from?



https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000298847825.html

These shells appear to be the same as the Nicehck B40. They have a larger 16.7mm diameter, in comparison to the normal PK/Yuin of 16.1mm. They are larger in many ways and take a bit of work to be usable with most 14.8mm drivers that fit normal PK/Yuin shells.

Pics/details here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15605797
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15609131
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15609281
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15610688


----------



## WoodyLuvr

DBaldock9 said:


> If you've got a Facebook account, try contacting Wong Kuan Wae [ https://www.facebook.com/wkuanwae ], and he can assemble some of his Blur earbuds for you, that will provide the type of sound you desire.


Concur with @DBaldock9 recommendation of Blur earbuds... you might check out the Blur thread *here.*


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> Does the Moondrop Nameless take well to EQing up the bass frequencies?


Dont think so, although I suck at EQing so...


----------



## baskingshark

Just got the RY4S plus 32 ohm (MMCX) and RY4S 300 ohm (MMCX) today in the mail.

Fit of the RY4S plus is a bit fiddly for me, but with a good fit, it is above average in technicalities. V shaped, mid bass is quite authoratative, subbass is slightly less than midbass in quantity but not too bad in subbass extension for a bud. Bass isn't the tightest unfortunately, with midbass bleed. Upper mids can occasionally be harsh. Scales better with amping. Soundstage above average. It is ok for the $7 USD asking price, but I'll probably not be using it much due to the fit issues.

RY4S 300 ohm is a power hungry beast as the impedance suggests, but with a powerful enough source, it is a quite balanced tuning with good technicalities. Much tighter bass than the RY4S Plus, though of less quantity bass than the RY4S. Subbass doesn't extend as well as the RY4S plus. Great soundstage and timbre. Don't hear any harsh frequencies so far, but will do further testing. I like this set a lot. I think it may be a tough fight between this and the BK2.


----------



## jogawag (May 16, 2020)

I was lucky to get the target vintage MDR-E888 for about $ 130 at the flea market. I've been listening to it for about 18 hours.





The sound of the MDR-E888 has enough low tone when using the double full foams, and has a little softer low resonance than the MDR-E848 which I previously reported, no other clear difference is found.
I wonder if there isn't much difference because it's the same series, or maybe I don't have the ears to tell the difference...

Well then, as the next target I'll manage to find ,the vintage MDR-E868 (although it rarely seem to be listed in the flea market at a reasonable price as under $120), which is said to have V-shaped sound.  And I'll compare the 3 siblings's sound!

EDIT:
After that  I've seen in many reviews that the MDR-E868 is said to have too sharp treble and to have the least amount of bass in the 3 siblings.
So I change to buy it as the target if it is sold cheaply.


----------



## jogawag (May 13, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> So, I'm finally discovering how good the Yuin PK2's really are. Only after transplanting them in a different shell w/MMCX. (The original shells were sold to someone to repair a PK1.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am interested in tthose new MMCXed shells. Did you make shells MMCXed by your own only?


----------



## assassin10000

jogawag said:


> I am interested in tthose new MMCXed shells. Did you make shells MMCXed by your own only?



Yeah, I made them by modifying the shells I linked above.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15611273


----------



## jogawag (May 14, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Yeah, I made them by modifying the shells I linked above.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15611273



Incredible! You can be a professional Earbuds tuner!

I thought I couldn't do that, so I thought about buying Linsoul DTM Earbuds, but it's not for sale now.

I want to attach my Docomo Earbuds drivers to the MMCXed PK Earbuds by exchanging.

Does anyone know where to buy MMCXed PK Earbuds?


----------



## Otto Motor

Finally got a hold of Jim at NiceHCK...we discussed the HungryPanda earbud...I suggested a special edition of one of their current buds plus a bit of a donation for covid-19 research included. The package should cost somewhere between $7 and $15. The idea is that nobody makes a profit, that everything goes to a good cause, and that it is affordable for everybody.

Jim will have to propose this to his bosses.

The HungryPanda was one of the most popular Head-Fiers who sadly succumbed to covid-19 last month.


----------



## siderak

Just got some simphonio dragon 2+.
I think they sound superb. 
Wide soundstage!
They remind me of the campfred 2’s but a little more refined and neutral.  
I’m hearing a great amount of detail and yet it’s a somewhat relaxed sound. 
Listening to The Clash “London Calling” and D’Angelo “Black Messiah” albums.


----------



## ahauwlim

ClieOS said:


> I already posted impression on both RW-1000 and QJ21 in the past, just search my older post. I have the Bell-Blue for awhile now - It has the hallmark of K's house sound - warm and rich with a sweet vocal, well tuned for mainstream music, very much a lower 1st tier, closely follow the Bell-Ti. It is however not the latest from K's anymore, as they are about to release  the 'Onmyoji', which is meant to be a cheaper edition of Bell-Ti. ZEVA Silver King, for what I know, is the silver cable version of Lord.E. There is also a prototype named the 'fire lord' in development as well. The 32ohm you are referring is probably the SuperFire, now comes as either Prime edition (same tuning as original) or Pro edition (new tuning).


Hi CLie, onmyoji was released already. do you have any idea where i can get a confirmation about this onmyoji is a cheaper version or the upgrade version? my local seller here said it's an upgrade version. thanks


----------



## ClieOS

ahauwlim said:


> Hi CLie, onmyoji was released already. do you have any idea where i can get a confirmation about this onmyoji is a cheaper version or the upgrade version? my local seller here said it's an upgrade version. thanks



Actually it is both - slightly cheaper because Onmyoji uses aluminum shell instead of titanium shell (*Bell-Ti), but SQ improves slightly as well. Sound signature are actually very similar between the two. Onmyoji has a slightly deeper and wider soundstage and a smoother / better textured upper vocal range. The improvement isn't night and day so Bell-Ti owner probably have no need to rush out for an Onmyoji. Though if you are going to get either one, then definitely consider the Onmyoji first.


----------



## ahauwlim

ClieOS said:


> Actually it is both - slightly cheaper because Onmyoji uses aluminum shell instead of titanium shell (*Bell-Ti), but SQ improves slightly as well. Sound signature are actually very similar between the two. Onmyoji has a slightly deeper and wider soundstage and a smoother / better textured upper vocal range. The improvement isn't night and day so Bell-Ti owner probably have no need to rush out for an Onmyoji. Though if you are going to get either one, then definitely consider the Onmyoji first.


i heard that Bell Ti is limited. only 1000 pcs. but the build on Onmyoji is better. so i really confuse here.
the comparison above is based on Bell Ti 30 or 120?


----------



## dh0licious (May 14, 2020)

Just received the Y**yoo BK2. These are my first earbuds after coming from a few Chifi IEM's (KZ Zs10 Pro, Tin T4) and I must say they sound horrible.

I understand they obviously won't provide the isolation that IEMs and it's important to get a good fit/seating, but after reading some of the rave reviews I thought they'd be better than this? I have to really push them into my ears with my hands to hear any bass, and obviously when I let  go I lose all the bass.

https://nobsaudiophile.wordpress.com/2019/05/03/****-bk2-rightly-tuned-wrongly-priced-too-cheap/

https://primeaudio.org/****-bk2-earbuds-review-steadfast/

I haven't burn-in at all. Do the BK2 benefit from burn-in?


----------



## ClieOS

ahauwlim said:


> i heard that Bell Ti is limited. only 1000 pcs. but the build on Onmyoji is better. so i really confuse here.
> the comparison above is based on Bell Ti 30 or 120?



Bell-Ti 30 ohm. I have the Bell-Ti 120 ohm as well, which has a completely different sound signature that is more toward the rich and warmth side, like a improved VE Zen 2. However, technically the 30 ohm and the 120 ohm ain't that far off from each other.

Yes, due to the relatively high cost of the titanium shell, the number of Bell-Ti are limited. While Onmyoji has aluminum shell, K has learned enough from the design of Bell-Ti to improve on the build quality of Onmyoji.


----------



## 1clearhead

Sam L said:


> Wow. I... Am.... Shook....
> 
> My snow lotus 1.0+'s just came in. I am blown away at the price to performance ratio these things exude. Amazing.
> 
> How am I just discovering the world of earbuds just now? Pk2' s will be in next week. Smabat s10 (silver edition) will roll in 2 or 3 weeks from now. Can't wait.


Can anyone send me a "link" to taobao on the "Snow Lotus 1.0"? I would like to look into them more.


----------



## jogawag

1clearhead said:


> Can anyone send me a "link" to taobao on the "Snow Lotus 1.0"? I would like to look into them more.


"link" to taobao on the "Snow Lotus 1.0" is below, but not particularly cheap.
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=538726105250


----------



## ahauwlim

ClieOS said:


> Bell-Ti 30 ohm. I have the Bell-Ti 120 ohm as well, which has a completely different sound signature that is more toward the rich and warmth side, like a improved VE Zen 2. However, technically the 30 ohm and the 120 ohm ain't that far off from each other.
> 
> Yes, due to the relatively high cost of the titanium shell, the number of Bell-Ti are limited. While Onmyoji has aluminum shell, K has learned enough from the design of Bell-Ti to improve on the build quality of Onmyoji.



so you still consider to take Onmyoji over Bell Ti-120? i'm into details and speed a lot. not a basshead.


----------



## ClieOS

ahauwlim said:


> so you still consider to take Onmyoji over Bell Ti-120? i'm into details and speed a lot. not a basshead.



I'll only recommend Bell-Ti 120 ohm if you are more into a rich, warm and smooth sound. Otherwise Onmyoji will have a more versatile sound signature.


----------



## RikudouGoku

ClieOS said:


> I'll only recommend Bell-Ti 120 ohm if you are more into a rich, warm and smooth sound. Otherwise Onmyoji will have a more versatile sound signature.


Can you post a link to the onmyoji? Can only find Anime or historical stuff when I search for it lol.


----------



## ClieOS

RikudouGoku said:


> Can you post a link to the onmyoji? Can only find Anime or historical stuff when I search for it lol.



https://a.aliexpress.com/_d67Tdj7

The black/white version


----------



## RobinFood

Doesn anyone have a cheap amp recommendation to drive 150 ohm earbuds? I can get a hint of how great these buds can be on balanced high output mode that triggers the warning, but it kills the battery so fast, and I feel like they have more potential. With a phone or something smaller I can still get good volume, but it sounds like the highs were chopped off, and like I'm listening to music in a bathroom.


----------



## ClieOS

RobinFood said:


> Doesn anyone have a cheap amp recommendation to drive 150 ohm earbuds? I can get a hint of how great these buds can be on balanced high output mode that triggers the warning, but it kills the battery so fast, and I feel like they have more potential. With a phone or something smaller I can still get good volume, but it sounds like the highs were chopped off, and like I'm listening to music in a bathroom.



What is the source(s) you are going to use?


----------



## ahauwlim

RikudouGoku said:


> Can you post a link to the onmyoji? Can only find Anime or historical stuff when I search for it lol.


this is the problem happened to me, i barely find it as well. but good thing we have master Justin here.


----------



## RobinFood

ClieOS said:


> What is the source(s) you are going to use?



I'd love to be able to use the my phone or shanling m0 as a source to the DAP since that is where I keep my music, but the buds have a stiff cable so I listen to them sitting down usually. I'd just like to have a decent amp that can run more power hungry buds.

The VE Odyssey makes them sound better, but still not perfect...


----------



## Sam L

1clearhead said:


> Can anyone send me a "link" to taobao on the "Snow Lotus 1.0"? I would like to look into them more.


I picked mine up on Amazon in the US. $13 and easily worth it


----------



## assassin10000 (May 14, 2020)

dh0licious said:


> Just received the Y**yoo BK2. These are my first earbuds after coming from a few Chifi IEM's (KZ Zs10 Pro, Tin T4) and I must say they sound horrible.
> 
> I understand they obviously won't provide the isolation that IEMs and it's important to get a good fit/seating, but after reading some of the rave reviews I thought they'd be better than this? I have to really push them into my ears with my hands to hear any bass, and obviously when I let  go I lose all the bass.
> 
> ...



From what I recall these were a smooth, warmish signature with mild treble roll off. Not super detailed or very resolving. Bass was more mid-bassy with a (typical) lack of sub-bass. Good for older poorly mastered recordings and rock.

If you have no bass, are you using foams with them? What you describe sounds like when there is a seal, by pressing them, the bass is there. They need foams or all the bass will be gone, as they provide some sealing. Unless you have a magically perfect fit.

I can't recall if burn-in helped on those or not. But it won't hurt them to do so.


----------



## 1clearhead

jogawag said:


> "link" to taobao on the "Snow Lotus 1.0" is below, but not particularly cheap.
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=538726105250


Thanks! ...Really appreciated!


----------



## robar

dh0licious said:


> Just received the Y**yoo BK2. These are my first earbuds after coming from a few Chifi IEM's (KZ Zs10 Pro, Tin T4) and I must say they sound horrible.
> 
> I understand they obviously won't provide the isolation that IEMs and it's important to get a good fit/seating, but after reading some of the rave reviews I thought they'd be better than this? I have to really push them into my ears with my hands to hear any bass, and obviously when I let  go I lose all the bass.
> 
> ...


Maybe you got a lemon. I had similar experience with the B40 and the SR2. Either the tuning foam got loose inside, or the speaker itself is damaged. If it sounds absolutely bad with literally no bass, then it's very possible that you received a faulty unit. It would help if you'd have an another earbud as a reference. Probably needs replacement


----------



## mbwilson111

robar said:


> Maybe you got a lemon. I had similar experience with the B40 and the SR2. Either the tuning foam got loose inside, or the speaker itself is damaged. If it sounds absolutely bad with literally no bass, then it's very possible that you received a faulty unit. It would help if you'd have an another earbud as a reference. Probably needs replacement



...or they are too big and thus not sealing correctly for the bass.  Having to press them in and hold them would suggest that.  The BK2 is a bit big for me and is not my favorite for that reason.  B40 fits so much better for me.  Everyone is different.


----------



## robar (May 14, 2020)

mbwilson111 said:


> ...or they are too big and thus not sealing correctly for the bass.  Having to press them in and hold them would suggest that.  The BK2 is a bit big for me and is not my favorite for that reason.  B40 fits so much better for me.  Everyone is different.


He said ”I have to really push them into my ears with my hands to hear ANY BASS”. This is why I thought he got a faulty one. Actually this thread and the aliexpress reviews are full of no bass/bad sound claims for these massively produced buds like the EB2, B40, BK2 etc. Sometimes it's fixable, often times its not. (QC is not very consistent in the first place, there are many possibilities for bad performance) Maybe it got damaged internally during shipping, we have no idea how these are handled and what conditions they have to endure. I also received faulty speakers (as individual DIY parts) multiple times in the past few month, needed to ask for replacement or refund quite a few times. 
I just wanted to warn him to no wait for the magic power of burn-in, because if something sounds bad out of the box, it won't turn to gold overnight, but he could loose the opportunity for refund/replacement in the meantime. 

Of course it would be nice to have a different bud for reference, and he should try it with foams definitely. If nothing helps he could also try the good old sucking method as well, sometimes it works


----------



## ClieOS

RobinFood said:


> I'd love to be able to use the my phone or shanling m0 as a source to the DAP since that is where I keep my music, but the buds have a stiff cable so I listen to them sitting down usually. I'd just like to have a decent amp that can run more power hungry buds.
> 
> The VE Odyssey makes them sound better, but still not perfect...



Market as a whole is moving away from small amp but focusing mainly on pig-tail style, no battery DAC/amp or full sized portable, battery powered DAC/amp in general. The formal is going to eat into your battery life (especially the really good one) while the later isn't generally going to be particularly cheap. As a long term investment, I am more inclined to recommend a decent full-sized DAC/amp instead. Generally you will find really good offer at around $150 range.


----------



## Nool (May 15, 2020)

dh0licious said:


> Just received the Y**yoo BK2. These are my first earbuds after coming from a few Chifi IEM's (KZ Zs10 Pro, Tin T4) and I must say they sound horrible.
> 
> I understand they obviously won't provide the isolation that IEMs and it's important to get a good fit/seating, but after reading some of the rave reviews I thought they'd be better than this? I have to really push them into my ears with my hands to hear any bass, and obviously when I let  go I lose all the bass.
> 
> ...



BK2 has hardly any subbass, it's not until 80-120hz or so that it starts picking up in volume. From there I'll still say it has above average timbre and detail, not by much but it's still decent for the price. But yeah it's not something that would satisfy a basshead, not many earbuds would. I believe I stated that in my previous post, sorry if my review came off as misleading.

If you're willing to drop another $8 the RY4S+ was certainly much more bassy, I prefer it over the bk2 when listening to DnB. You could get those and use them on the bk2 cable. At worst you'd have a solid reference point for what earbuds have to offer.

Edit: relistening to the RY4S+, if the bk2's bass didn't satisfy you these might not either. It's certainly heavier and wider but compared to an iem it still leaks a lot of pressure. If you're set on some bass heavy buds ask around some more, I wouldn't really know what to recommend.


----------



## dh0licious

Nool said:


> BK2 has hardly any subbass, it's not until 80-120hz or so that it starts picking up in volume. From there I'll still say it has above average timbre and detail, not by much but it's still decent for the price. But yeah it's not something that would satisfy a basshead, not many earbuds would. I believe I stated that in my previous post, sorry if my review came off as misleading.
> 
> If you're willing to drop another $8 the RY4S+ was certainly much more bassy, I prefer it over the bk2 when listening to DnB. You could get those and use them on the bk2 cable. At worst you'd have a solid reference point for what earbuds have to offer.



That's funny. I have the RY4S+ coming in the mail, ordered same day as BK2


----------



## Nool

dh0licious said:


> That's funny. I have the RY4S+ coming in the mail, ordered same day as BK2



Lol well might not wanna read my edit then.. in either way at least you'll know whether my ears work or not. But yeah if you're after basshead earbuds you might wanna look around some more. Let me know what you think of the RY4S+.


----------



## snowmind

I would say that, in general terms, the MX500's shell, due to its size, still maintains the best acoustics with good tuning possibilities. Smaller shells provide better adjustments within the ear.


----------



## 1clearhead

jogawag said:


> "link" to taobao on the "Snow Lotus 1.0" is below, but not particularly cheap.
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=538726105250


I think it's a great price if they're that good! ...Ordered the black ones! 
Thanks, Cheers!


----------



## Nimweth

ST-10S, black/silver on the way. Should be interesting to compare with M1 pro and green ST-10.


----------



## jogawag

1clearhead said:


> I think it's a great price if they're that good! ...Ordered the black ones!
> Thanks, Cheers!


For my country's exchange rate, the FAAEAL Official Store on AliExpress on AliExpress on the link below is cheaper.
Does it differ depending on the country?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32677773445.html


----------



## 1clearhead

jogawag said:


> For my country's exchange rate, the FAAEAL Official Store on AliExpress on AliExpress on the link below is cheaper.
> Does it differ depending on the country?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32677773445.html


Probably. That's actually slightly cheaper than what they sell in China. But, not by much.
I paid 65 yuan, which is 9.15 in US dollars, while 7.25 US dollars converted to yuan transfers over to 51.48 yuan. So, yes! That seller is selling it slightly cheaper.


----------



## baskingshark (May 15, 2020)

dh0licious said:


> That's funny. I have the RY4S+ coming in the mail, ordered same day as BK2




Having both RY4S plus 32 ohm and BK2, with a good source, I prefer the BK2 in most departments other than bass quantity and soundstage. BK2 for me is better in timbre, technicalities and tonality. BK2 is basslite for me (I'm a basshead), and yeah the subbass is weak, but that is quite a common issue in earbuds. Though the BK2's bass is of good quality in being tight, well textured, whereas the RY4S+ has some midbass bleed and is flabby. RY4S+ also has some occasional harsh upper mids, so female vocals can be fatiguing sometimes (depends on your music genres). BK2 is very smooth across most frequencies, hardly any sibilance or harshness.

The HE150 Pro has good bass quantity and subbass extension for a earbud. Bass quality is quite good too, but it also has upper mids/lower treble harshness, and it is also better in technicalities than RY4S+.

If u can spend a bit more, it is worth considering the RY4S 300 ohm over the RY4S+. The 300 ohm version is more balanced with overall better technicalities, soundstage and good tonality. Though it needs a well powered source.


----------



## Orling

ClieOS said:


> Sennheiser MX985, Blox TM7, Venture Electronic Zen 1.0, Rose Technology Mojito.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Orling

Where is the list. I have checked 3 other websites and nothing. This post got me super interested in earbuds and I might buy one.


----------



## KevDzn

The list is long gone. Too many dispute.


----------



## Orling

KevDzn said:


> The list is long gone. Too many dispute.


Damn, is there any archive of it?


----------



## assassin10000

That list would be at least 4-5 years out of date. Wouldn't be much help as many of the earbuds on it may no longer be available.

Maybe let us know what you are looking for, music or useage, source and any fit issues. Then we can possibly help you narrow down some choices.


----------



## SiggyFraud (May 16, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Having both RY4S plus 32 ohm and BK2, with a good source, I prefer the BK2 in most departments other than bass quantity and soundstage. BK2 for me is better in timbre, technicalities and tonality. BK2 is basslite for me (I'm a basshead), and yeah the subbass is weak, but that is quite a common issue in earbuds. Though the BK2's bass is of good quality in being tight, well textured, whereas the RY4S+ has some midbass bleed and is flabby. RY4S+ also has some occasional harsh upper mids, so female vocals can be fatiguing sometimes (depends on your music genres). BK2 is very smooth across most frequencies, hardly any sibilance or harshness.
> 
> The HE150 Pro has good bass quantity and subbass extension for a earbud. Bass quality is quite good too, but it also has upper mids/lower treble harshness, and it is also better in technicalities than RY4S+.
> 
> If u can spend a bit more, it is worth considering the RY4S 300 ohm over the RY4S+. The 300 ohm version is more balanced with overall better technicalities, soundstage and good tonality. Though it needs a well powered source.


Is this the one? Found it in RY's AE store, but it's called GM500, so I'm not sure 🤔


----------



## baskingshark

SiggyFraud said:


> Is this the one? Found it in RY's AE store, but it's called GM500, so I'm not sure 🤔



I bought my RY4S 300 ohm set here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html

There's an aliexpress sale in 2 days time, so it seems prices will be cheaper if u can wait. I heard the RY4S 300 ohm uses the GM500 driver, can anyone confirm this?


----------



## dh0licious

baskingshark said:


> Having both RY4S plus 32 ohm and BK2, with a good source, I prefer the BK2 in most departments other than bass quantity and soundstage. BK2 for me is better in timbre, technicalities and tonality. BK2 is basslite for me (I'm a basshead), and yeah the subbass is weak, but that is quite a common issue in earbuds. Though the BK2's bass is of good quality in being tight, well textured, whereas the RY4S+ has some midbass bleed and is flabby. RY4S+ also has some occasional harsh upper mids, so female vocals can be fatiguing sometimes (depends on your music genres). BK2 is very smooth across most frequencies, hardly any sibilance or harshness.
> 
> The HE150 Pro has good bass quantity and subbass extension for a earbud. Bass quality is quite good too, but it also has upper mids/lower treble harshness, and it is also better in technicalities than RY4S+.
> 
> If u can spend a bit more, it is worth considering the RY4S 300 ohm over the RY4S+. The 300 ohm version is more balanced with overall better technicalities, soundstage and good tonality. Though it needs a well powered source.



Do you think the Radsone ES100 bluetooth DAC/AMP will be able to power the Ry4S 300 ohm sufficiently?


----------



## baskingshark

dh0licious said:


> Do you think the Radsone ES100 bluetooth DAC/AMP will be able to power the Ry4S 300 ohm sufficiently?



I don't own the ES100. But my humble fiio A3 which has no balanced output can drive it.


----------



## Sam L

Any recommendations in the $200 range? My most frequently used 'phones are blon bl03's, ety er2xr, akg k371.


----------



## assassin10000

Sam L said:


> Any recommendations in the $200 range? My most frequently used 'phones are blon bl03's, ety er2xr, akg k371.



I don't have some of the higher end buds like Shozy, Rose, K's, Ourart QJ21 and Simphonio. So I couldn't say. Perhaps @ClieOS or @golov17 could make a recommendation.

If you want great mids & highs and don't mind a possible lack of bass quantity (very fit dependant), the Ourart ACG are very good. I have a decent fit and there is enough bass for me but I'm not a basshead.

If you want a neutral'ish sound that has bass that reaches deep, the ST-10 may be more to your liking. I had the originals (v1 & v2) but haven't heard the new ones.


You could get both of these for less than your budget.


----------



## DBaldock9

Sam L said:


> Any recommendations in the $200 range? My most frequently used 'phones are blon bl03's, ety er2xr, akg k371.



Some of the Blur earbuds, from Wong Kuan Wae [ https://www.facebook.com/wkuanwae ], are in that price range.  If you contact him, he can create earbuds for you, that have a sound signature to match your requirements.


----------



## RobinFood

Sam L said:


> Any recommendations in the $200 range? My most frequently used 'phones are blon bl03's, ety er2xr, akg k371.



My most listened to iem is the er4xr and I absolutely love the Smabat st-10. It has a very similar sound, dry, clear, detailed with a sub bass lift.


----------



## Nool

RobinFood said:


> My most listened to iem is the er4xr and I absolutely love the Smabat st-10. It has a very similar sound, dry, clear, detailed with a sub bass lift.


That's a pretty interesting statement, considering Etymotic's ER series is highly regarded. I'd be interested in your thoughts on the differences between the two. How's their attack, timbre, and staging/imaging compare? Also how's the treble extension on the st-10, does treble have good air and sparkle, or is it more flat and dull?

Also I'm assuming you have the original 45ohm st-10, if it's the st-10s which ohm variant is it? Thanks for your time.

I really enjoy my bk2, but my two largest complaints are lack of bass and treble sparkle. If the st-10 has those, especially good treble extension, it'll definitely be at the top of my wish list.


----------



## ClieOS

Nool said:


> Also I'm assuming you have the original 45ohm st-10, if it's the st-10s which ohm variant is it? Thanks for your time.



ST-10S Black Gold is _*absolutely stunning*_, but it required a decent source with a bit of power. Driving it from a weak source, while still sounds good, won't likely going to be its best. In comparison, ST-10 is slightly drier - think of it as closer to ER4S tuning while ST-10S Black Glod is somewhere in between ER4P and ER4S.

As for ST-10S Black SIlver - it is more like a smoothed down ER4P. But last I heard, Smabat might be doing a small reversion to improve its treble so it can be closer to the original ST-10 tuning, as requested by many of ST-10 original users.


----------



## baskingshark

ClieOS said:


> ST-10S Black Gold is _*absolutely stunning*_, but it required a decent source with a bit of power. Driving it from a weak source, while still sounds good, won't likely going to be its best. In comparison, ST-10 is slightly drier - think of it as closer to ER4S tuning while ST-10S Black Glod is somewhere in between ER4P and ER4S.
> 
> As for ST-10S Black SIlver - it is more like a smoothed down ER4P. But last I heard, Smabat might be doing a small reversion to improve its treble so it can be closer to the original ST-10 tuning, as requested by many of ST-10 original users.



Thanks for your impressions.

How does ST10S Black Gold compare to some of the TOTL/higher tier earbuds?


----------



## Orling

How do I know what earbuds are good?


----------



## ClieOS

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for your impressions.
> 
> How does ST10S Black Gold compare to some of the TOTL/higher tier earbuds?



It is a ToTL on its own right. While the original ST-10 might sounds a little dry for some, technically it is almost as good as any earbud. ST-10S Black Gold just improves upon its by a slight retuning that gives it just enough warmth without taking away the neutralness, with also an improvement on a more immersive soundstage.



Orling said:


> How do I know what earbuds are good?



You can start by reading a lot of impression and review from this thread and pick one (or a few) that is most likely going to fit your taste, but ultimately the answer is: buy enough of them and find out for yourself.


----------



## DBaldock9

ClieOS said:


> It is a ToTL on its own right. While the original ST-10 might sounds a little dry for some, technically it is almost as good as any earbud. ST-10S Black Gold just improves upon its by a slight retuning that gives it just enough warmth without taking away the neutralness, with also an improvement on a more immersive soundstage.
> ...



I ordered my ST-10s Black/Gold on 11-APR, and according to AliExpress shipping, it was handed over to their Post Office on 12-APR.
There's been no additional tracking info.
So, I'm still looking forward to receiving my earbuds.


----------



## ClieOS

DBaldock9 said:


> I ordered my ST-10s Black/Gold on 11-APR, and according to AliExpress shipping, it was handed over to their Post Office on 12-APR.
> There's been no additional tracking info.
> So, I'm still looking forward to receiving my earbuds.



International shipping is a mess right now due to the pandemic. Most small packages were used to hitch a ride on passenger airplanes in the past for faster delivery, but now most of these kind of flights have stopped and therefore all packages have to wait in long line, general right after all the protection gears needed for emergency.


----------



## cenizas

Does anyone have impressions of the swd3?


----------



## Sam L

ClieOS said:


> ST-10S Black Gold is _*absolutely stunning*_, but it required a decent source with a bit of power. Driving it from a weak source, while still sounds good, won't likely going to be its best. In comparison, ST-10 is slightly drier - think of it as closer to ER4S tuning while ST-10S Black Glod is somewhere in between ER4P and ER4S.
> 
> As for ST-10S Black SIlver - it is more like a smoothed down ER4P. But last I heard, Smabat might be doing a small reversion to improve its treble so it can be closer to the original ST-10 tuning, as requested by many of ST-10 original users.


Aw.. A couple weeks back I ordered the st-10s black silver. I'm wondering if I should of just waited for the revision. Oh well.


----------



## RobinFood

Nool said:


> That's a pretty interesting statement, considering Etymotic's ER series is highly regarded. I'd be interested in your thoughts on the differences between the two. How's their attack, timbre, and staging/imaging compare? Also how's the treble extension on the st-10, does treble have good air and sparkle, or is it more flat and dull?
> 
> Also I'm assuming you have the original 45ohm st-10, if it's the st-10s which ohm variant is it? Thanks for your time.
> 
> I really enjoy my bk2, but my two largest complaints are lack of bass and treble sparkle. If the st-10 has those, especially good treble extension, it'll definitely be at the top of my wish list.




I have the original ST-10.

The attack I feel is really similar. It has a boosted sub bass, if you listen to a frequency sweep you get the same airplane rumble as the ER4XR below 80Hz. The sub bass drops a little, giving it a fast decay and the dryer sound in the same way.

The timbre on the ER4XR is better. The ST-10 sometimes sounds thin, whereas the ER always sounds natural in the mids. It's not always night and day though, but the ER has that little extra something there.

The imaging on the ST-10 is razor sharp, and the soundstage is better. The ER gives me the impression that I am in a small studio room with all the music, which I guess makes sense, since that is probably where they recorded. The ER has good horizontal imaging, but the ST-10 has a wider spacing, and also has a tall soundstage and a better sense of depth.

The treble extension on the ST-10 is better, for better or worse. The ER has natural treble, and the ST-10 has a touch more. It has sparkle, but not glitter (like my KZ ZS6 - glitter bomb...).

Overall, the sound signature is very similar to my ears, even though I nit-pik here and there.
The big difference is the ER4XR has a more natural timber, and the ST-10 has better imaging and soundstage. 
Both are a little uncomfortable, but still better than headphones.


----------



## waynes world

ClieOS said:


> You can start by reading a lot of impression and review from this thread and pick one (or a few) that is most likely going to fit your taste, but ultimately the answer is:* buy enough of them and find out for yourself.*



Spoken like a true master enabler!


----------



## Nool (May 17, 2020)

Thanks a lot for your replies! While I've unfortunately never heard any of the ER series I see that crinacle rates them highly, and comparing his reviews against other stuff that I do own I can get a good enough idea what they're capable of. I'm glad to know they have great attack & some treble extension, which is usually what I find lacking, and so long as there's some proper timbre I'm happy. The fact they can hold up against the ER4's kinda says enough as is.. knowing the ST-10 traits against it is very helpful, thanks for your thorough input.

@ClieOS do you have a source on your statement that the 40ohm ST-10s tuning might get a revision? Also, is the treble on the 150ohm the same as the (current) 40ohm? I prefer a more bright presentation, by the sound of it I might prefer the original ST-10, but if they brighten the 40ohm ST-10s then that'd be an obvious preference.

I'm not totally sold on the 150ohm variant since I use a smartphone with a headphone jack, but I might wind up having to grab a USB-C dongle (either the apple or meizu) if I ever upgrade my phone.. so kinda at an impasse there. Does anyone have any idea what the difference in power consumption would be between the 40 and 150ohm? Or would the dongle consume the same amount of power regardless? If it's negligible then I'd probably just get the 150ohm and reap the benefits of a cleaner source as well. Never had to drive any high-impedance stuff before, much less from a smartphone so I'm not really sure what the tradeoffs are. If anyone has any experience on that I'd be grateful to hear it, I'd rather not have to get a DAP and carry two devices.


----------



## ClieOS

Nool said:


> @ClieOS do you have a source on your statement that the 40ohm ST-10s tuning might get a revision? Also, is the treble on the 150ohm the same as the (current) 40ohm? I prefer a more bright presentation, by the sound of it I might prefer the original ST-10, but if they brighten the 40ohm ST-10s then that'd be an obvious preference.



Straight from the mouth of the maker. In fact, I have a pair of the retuned ST-10S Black Silver coming in about 2 weeks or so and I'll be able to compare it to the first version.

Treble extension on the ST-10S Black Gold is almost just as good the original ST-10, but not as sparkly. If you really prefer a brighter sound, then get the original ST-10 - or wait for my impression on the new ST-10S Black SIlver.



Nool said:


> I'm not totally sold on the 150ohm variant since I use a smartphone with a headphone jack, but I might wind up having to grab a USB-C dongle (either the apple or meizu) if I ever upgrade my phone.. so kinda at an impasse there. Does anyone have any idea what the difference in power consumption would be between the 40 and 150ohm? Or would the dongle consume the same amount of power regardless? If it's negligible then I'd probably just get the 150ohm and reap the benefits of a cleaner source as well. Never had to drive any high-impedance stuff before, much less from a smartphone so I'm not really sure what the tradeoffs are. If anyone has any experience on that I'd be grateful to hear it, I'd rather not have to get a DAP and carry two devices.



A really good Type-C USB DAC dongle will drive ST-10S Black Gold just fine. I am using Audirect HiliDAC atom Pro and Beam 2 - both drive ST-10S Black Gold quite good, specially Beam 2. Of course, the more powerful the dongle, the higher power it will required and the less battery life you will get out of it. I don't have the Meizu but I am going to get an Apple Type-C dongle soon. Hopefully I'll be able to talk more about it once I received it.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Enjoying the unique airy sound of the ISN Audio Rambo II.







--


----------



## Nool

ClieOS said:


> Straight from the mouth of the maker. In fact, I have a pair of the retuned ST-10S Black Silver coming in about 2 weeks or so and I'll be able to compare it to the first version.
> 
> Treble extension on the ST-10S Black Gold is almost just as good the original ST-10, but not as sparkly. If you really prefer a brighter sound, then get the original ST-10 - or wait for my impression on the new ST-10S Black SIlver.
> 
> ...


Awesome, thanks for reading all that. I'll hang back for now and wait for your thoughts on the new 40ohm ST-10s retuning. I'd also be interested to know how well the apple dongle handles it; remember reading somewhere it only does well up to 50ohm.

A bit off-topic but if anyone's searching, I did find this chart of dongle power consumption. I'll probably be going for the meizu pro based on reviews.


----------



## RobinFood

ClieOS said:


> Market as a whole is moving away from small amp but focusing mainly on pig-tail style, no battery DAC/amp or full sized portable, battery powered DAC/amp in general. The formal is going to eat into your battery life (especially the really good one) while the later isn't generally going to be particularly cheap. As a long term investment, I am more inclined to recommend a decent full-sized DAC/amp instead. Generally you will find really good offer at around $150 range.



What would you recommend for either a pig-tail or full-size model?
Also, how would they compare to the ES100? Almost everything seems to be rated in mW @ 16 ohms, but the ES100 shows the power in Vp @ 16 ohms, but I have no idea even after google searches how comparable it is, and if something would actually be an upgrade to just using the ES100 in DAC mode.


----------



## ClieOS (May 18, 2020)

RobinFood said:


> What would you recommend for either a pig-tail or full-size model?
> Also, how would they compare to the ES100? Almost everything seems to be rated in mW @ 16 ohms, but the ES100 shows the power in Vp @ 16 ohms, but I have no idea even after google searches how comparable it is, and if something would actually be an upgrade to just using the ES100 in DAC mode.



Radsone only gives max Vpp without any load, which is about as helpful as asking a blind man on how to drive. Proper power is measured under loud, with a 1kHz pure sine tone and THD+N = 1% (or less). However, we do know what DAC/amp chip it uses (dual AK4375A), so we can estimate - even at the best condition, that ES100 should only manage to be around 40mW @ 16ohm (THD+N = 0.1%) as it is the hardware limit of the chip.

Pig-tail has the benefit of being small, doesn't need to be recharged and generally will support up to 24/384 PCM / DSD64 (*at least the newer pig-tail should). Some even do MQA. The downside is of course they will eat into battery life and there is a limitation of how much power thry can deliver, mostly because that's only that much power can be draw from a USB connection. Full-sized will offer more power without the worry of power draw, just as good a SQ if not batter. Some also offer MQA and even EQ. As a long term investment, full-sized makes more sense as you are more likely going to replace your smartphone in a year or two rather than the DAC/amp, also the fact that you might move on to other headphones in the future. Full-sized will allow more capability for you to choose, instead of need to upgrade the DAC/amp once you change smartphone or have something harder to drive. Pig-tail on the other hand offer convenience. My advice is for you to choose something you are most likely going to use often and keep longer. If you don't foreseen yourself carrying a full-sized around, then it doesn't make sense to buy one just so you don't use it. You will want to put practicality / usability as your top priority.

Anyway, ES100 is limited to 16/44.1 as an USB DAC, which is enough but not going to suffice if you move to Hi-res in the future. For pig-tail, the best I current have is the Audirect HiliDAC Beam 2, which sounds as good as it measured and support full MQA. As full-sized, I am using iFi xDSD at the moment and quite happy with it. But if you don't really need Bluetooth, the newer iFi Hip-DAC will probably be a better choice as it is more or less a scaled down version of xDSD. Topping NX4 also seems to be quite popular, though I have no experience with the brand, just that it has gained a reputation for offering really good value for money.


----------



## Nimweth (May 18, 2020)

ST10s black/silver arrived today. I am A-B'ing them with the original green ST-10. The newer model is better in every way. Soundstage is much bigger and more spacious with more air. Bass is improved and has more "welly" as well as improved texture. Mids are gloriously neutral and  blend into the treble wonderfully. Treble itself is open, detailed and very extended. I am wearing them cable down with left and right reversed, one set of full foams and the ear hooks from the ST-10 (no ear hooks provided with ST-10s!). I'm going to be listening to a lot of music with these! The ST-10s combines the best of the ST-10 and M1Pro and then improves on that!


----------



## RobinFood

ClieOS said:


> Radsone only gives max Vpp without any load, which is about as helpful as asking a blind man on how to drive. Proper power is measured under loud, with a 1kHz pure sine tone and THD+N = 1% (or less). However, we do know what DAC/amp chip it uses (dual AK4375A), so we can estimate - even at the best condition, that ES100 should only manage to be around 40mW @ 16ohm (THD+N = 0.1%) as it is the hardware limit of the chip.
> 
> Pig-tail has the benefit of being small, doesn't need to be recharged and generally will support up to 24/384 PCM / DSD64 (*at least the newer pig-tail should). Some even do MQA. The downside is of course they will eat into battery life and there is a limitation of how much power thry can deliver, mostly because that's only that much power can be draw from a USB connection. Full-sized will offer more power without the worry of power draw, just as good a SQ if not batter. Some also offer MQA and even EQ. As a long term investment, full-sized makes more sense as you are more likely going to replace your smartphone in a year or two rather than the DAC/amp, also the fact that you might move on to other headphones in the future. Full-sized will allow more capability for you to choose, instead of need to upgrade the DAC/amp once you change smartphone or have something harder to drive. Pig-tail on the other hand offer convenience. My advice is for you to choose something you are most likely going to use often and keep longer. If you don't foreseen yourself carrying a full-sized around, then it doesn't make sense to buy one just so you don't use it. You will want to put practicality / usability as your top priority.
> 
> Anyway, ES100 is limited to 16/44.1 as an USB DAC, which is enough but not going to suffice if you move to Hi-res in the future. For pig-tail, the best I current have is the Audirect HiliDAC Beam 2, which sounds as good as it measured and support full MQA. As full-sized, I am using iFi xDSD at the moment and quite happy with it. But if you don't really need Bluetooth, the newer iFi Hip-DAC will probably be a better choice as it is more or less a scaled down version of xDSD. Topping NX4 also seems to be quite popular, though I have no experience with the brand, just that it has gained a reputation for offering really good value for money.



Thank you. That xDSD looks nice but is pretty pricey!
I think I would be more interested in a pig tail style dac-amp. Would the beam 2 be powerful enough to drive something heavy like the VE Zen 2?
I saw that something cheaper like the Hidizs Sonata HD has a power rating of 2*60 mW@32 ohms. Does that mean it has a power rating of 120 mW@32 ohms? Would that be powerful enough for more demanding earbuds?

Is there any lag with the beam 2? Is there any pig tail Dac-amps that are powerful enough and also act as a Bluetooth transmitter?


----------



## ClieOS

RobinFood said:


> Thank you. That xDSD looks nice but is pretty pricey!
> I think I would be more interested in a pig tail style dac-amp. Would the beam 2 be powerful enough to drive something heavy like the VE Zen 2?
> I saw that something cheaper like the Hidizs Sonata HD has a power rating of 2*60 mW@32 ohms. Does that mean it has a power rating of 120 mW@32 ohms? Would that be powerful enough for more demanding earbuds?
> 
> Is there any lag with the beam 2? Is there any pig tail Dac-amps that are powerful enough and also act as a Bluetooth transmitter?



Haven't tried Zen 2.0 on Beam 2 yet, I'll get back to you on that.

2*60mW means 60mW on each channel, you can't add them up together. Power rating usually only applies to single channel. However, you need to be careful on reading specs some (*most) manufacturers like to quote number directly from the data sheet of the chip they used instead of making actual measurement. Quite often is that the real power output is less than what they claims as data sheet number is measured under ideal condition that usually is not the case on the product. This is especially true if manufacturer doesn't list down the testing condition.

Lag is more or less an BT / wireless issue. It is not a problem for directly connected pig-tail DAC/amp. The only BT adapter that has features as good as pigtail DAC/amp is FiiO BTR5.


----------



## RobinFood

ClieOS said:


> Haven't tried Zen 2.0 on Beam 2 yet, I'll get back to you on that.
> 
> 2*60mW means 60mW on each channel, you can't add them up together. Power rating usually only applies to single channel. However, you need to be careful on reading specs some (*most) manufacturers like to quote number directly from the data sheet of the chip they used instead of making actual measurement. Quite often is that the real power output is less than what they claims as data sheet number is measured under ideal condition that usually is not the case on the product. This is especially true if manufacturer doesn't list down the testing condition.
> 
> Lag is more or less an BT / wireless issue. It is not a problem for directly connected pig-tail DAC/amp. The only BT adapter that has features as good as pigtail DAC/amp is FiiO BTR5.



The BTR5 is almost the same price as the Beam 2, and seems almost as powerful. Would the BTR5 be powerful enough to run 150 ohm and 300 ohm earbuds in balance mode? Do you know if you can use it as a dac-Bluetooth transmitter to get ldac quality out of a windows device, for example?

My Shanling M0 in USB dac mode had worst lag than in Bluetooth, like almost 2 seconds. I was very surprised, but don't want to take a chance anything will be that slow since I like gaming with earbuds.


----------



## JackSkully

RobinFood said:


> The BTR5 is almost the same price as the Beam 2, and seems almost as powerful. Would the BTR5 be powerful enough to run 150 ohm and 300 ohm earbuds in balance mode? Do you know if you can use it as a dac-Bluetooth transmitter to get ldac quality out of a windows device, for example?
> 
> My Shanling M0 in USB dac mode had worst lag than in Bluetooth, like almost 2 seconds. I was very surprised, but don't want to take a chance anything will be that slow since I like gaming with earbuds.


It can definitely go up to 150ohm and I think about 300 ohm balanced I'm not sure. But it can definitely power my 300ohm headphones


----------



## ClieOS

RobinFood said:


> The BTR5 is almost the same price as the Beam 2, and seems almost as powerful. Would the BTR5 be powerful enough to run 150 ohm and 300 ohm earbuds in balance mode? Do you know if you can use it as a dac-Bluetooth transmitter to get ldac quality out of a windows device, for example?
> 
> My Shanling M0 in USB dac mode had worst lag than in Bluetooth, like almost 2 seconds. I was very surprised, but don't want to take a chance anything will be that slow since I like gaming with earbuds.



Just tried Beam 2 with Zen 2.0, and I can listen to it comfortably at around 60% volume, so volume is not an issue. BTR5 can drive Zen 2.0 even better than Beam2, so it is also not a problem.

There is currently no USB BT transmitter / dongle that can transmit LDAC. aptX-HD is the best we can do now. I'll imagine Shanling M0 has lagging issue mainly because it has an underlying OS running the device itself as well as handling USB connection. A BT dongle doesn't use OS but instead relies on hardware SoC for a more direct connection and thus should not suffer any lagging issue.


----------



## DBaldock9

ClieOS said:


> Just tried Beam 2 with Zen 2.0, and I can listen to it comfortably at around 60% volume, so volume is not an issue. BTR5 can drive Zen 2.0 even better than Beam2, so it is also not a problem.
> 
> There is currently no USB BT transmitter / dongle that can transmit LDAC. aptX-HD is the best we can do now. I'll imagine Shanling M0 has lagging issue mainly because it has an underlying OS running the device itself as well as handling USB connection. A BT dongle doesn't use OS but instead relies on hardware SoC for a more direct connection and thus should not suffer any lagging issue.



I've seen it mentioned, on a different Forum, that someone had taken the Android / Linux LDAC BT transmitter code, and got it working on a Raspberry Pi. 
. 
But, I haven't seen any write-ups, that detailed the hardware and software configuration steps needed to get the USB -> BT LDAC device working. 
. 
A Raspberry Pi (running its variety of embedded Linux) would inevitably have latency similar to the M0, which also runs embedded Linux. 

Building / selling a stand-alone BT LDAC Transmitter would probably require licensing from Sony (creators of LDAC).


----------



## Nimweth

Sam L said:


> Aw.. A couple weeks back I ordered the st-10s black silver. I'm wondering if I should of just waited for the revision. Oh well.


Don't worry. I have my ST-10s Black/Silver and they outperform the original ST-10. They take the neutrality and soundstage of the M1 Pro and the authority of the green ST-10 and improve on them. Bass is superb and natural timbre very impressive.


----------



## rkw

ClieOS said:


> There is currently no USB BT transmitter / dongle that can transmit LDAC.


I thought Shanling M0 / M2X / M5S, and Hidizs AP80 can transmit LDAC from USB input.


----------



## Sam L

Nimweth said:


> Don't worry. I have my ST-10s Black/Silver and they outperform the original ST-10. They take the neutrality and soundstage of the M1 Pro and the authority of the green ST-10 and improve on them. Bass is superb and natural timbre very impressive.



Good to know. Can't wait to get them.


----------



## RobinFood

rkw said:


> I thought Shanling M0 / M2X / M5S, and Hidizs AP80 can transmit LDAC from USB input.



M0 can act as a dac-Bluetooth transmitter but the lag on windows is completely unacceptable.


----------



## ClieOS (May 19, 2020)

DBaldock9 said:


> Building / selling a stand-alone BT LDAC Transmitter would probably require licensing from Sony (creators of LDAC).



It is not a problem to get license from Sony as it'll only benefit from more third party product support. It also won't add much cost to manufacturers as LDAC license fee is mainly on the decoder side (* = the side that plays the music) rather than the encoder side (* = the side that sends the signal). The problem is that LDAC is not a standard BT codec and therefore it isn't hard-coded into any BT chip. aptX isn't a standard BT codec as well, but it benefit vastly as CSR makes its own BT chips that hard-coded aptX in the first place, before it was bought by Qualcomm, which dominates the smartphone and mobile BT scene. Sony makes the smart move by donating the LDAC code to Android as the company wants every Android to support it (*don't forget Sony is also the main LDAC headphone maker as well), but didn't do so with Microsoft and Apple - I'll imagine this has more to do with big companies trying to fend off each other technology than anything else. Neither Microsoft nor Apple would  want to see LDAC dominating BT market but rather prefer a common standard that either owned by themselves or under public domain / open standard.

Now the real issue is that Sony didn't develop any PC specific LDAC software kit for USB BT dongle maker to use, and most USB BT dongle maker probably don't have the required skill to develop such a kit by themselves either. Microsoft and Apple can probably do this easily, but they just don't have the incentive to help the competition.




rkw said:


> I thought Shanling M0 / M2X / M5S, and Hidizs AP80 can transmit LDAC from USB input.



There are work-around solution involving LDAC supported DAP acting as transmitter, not just from Shanling or Hidizs but also a few others. The problem is they are not the most stable of solution and often has quirk of their own. They can be used as short term solution but too problematic as a long term solution.


----------



## baskingshark

Anybody tried this new earbud: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001000183742.html

Sunrise Dragon 2
$145 USD


----------



## DBaldock9

ClieOS said:


> It is not a problem to get license from Sony as it'll only benefit from more third party product support. It also won't add much cost to manufacturers as LDAC license fee is mainly on the decoder side (* = the side that plays the music) rather than the encoder side (* = the side that sends the signal). The problem is that LDAC is not a standard BT codec and therefore it isn't hard-coded into any BT chip. aptX isn't a standard BT codec as well, but it benefit vastly as CSR makes its own BT chips that hard-coded aptX in the first place, before it was bought by Qualcomm, which dominates the smartphone and mobile BT scene. Sony makes the smart move by donating the LDAC code to Android as the company wants every Android to support it (*don't forget Sony is also the main LDAC headphone maker as well), but didn't do so with Microsoft and Apple - I'll imagine this has more to do with big companies trying to fend off each other technology than anything else. Neither Microsoft nor Apple would  want to see LDAC dominating BT market but rather prefer a common standard that either owned by themselves or under public domain / open standard.
> 
> Now the real issue is that Sony didn't develop any PC specific LDAC software kit for USB BT dongle maker to use, and most USB BT dongle maker probably don't have the required skill to develop such a kit by themselves either. Microsoft and Apple can probably do this easily, but they just don't have the incentive to help the competition.
> 
> ...



My main objective is to find, or build, a device that has SPDIF Optical input, and can transmit BT LDAC.


----------



## groucho69

DBaldock9 said:


> My main objective is to find, or build, a device that has SPDIF Optical input, and can transmit BT LDAC.



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32996995824.html?


----------



## DBaldock9

groucho69 said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32996995824.html?



Thanks, but I don't see anything that specifically says it has SPDIF Optical input.


----------



## groucho69 (May 20, 2020)

DBaldock9 said:


> Thanks, but I don't see anything that specifically says it has SPDIF Optical input.



Closest I've seen. Can you use a SPDIF Digital Coaxial Cable?


----------



## DBaldock9

Page 3200


----------



## DBaldock9

groucho69 said:


> Closest I've seen. Can you use a SPDIF Digital Coaxial Cable?



There are SPDIF Coax to Optical converters. 
. 
But, I think I'm going to try getting a Raspberry Pi, a HiFiBerry Digi+ I/O, and a Kinivo BTD-400 - and see about rolling my own SPDIF Optical -> BT LDAC Transmitter. 
. 
Some of my earbuds have Microphone / Volume Controls, and I wish the portable BT DAC/Amps would pass through the Mic & Controls, when operating in LDAC mode (or any BT mode).


----------



## jogawag

baskingshark said:


> Anybody tried this new earbud: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001000183742.html
> 
> Sunrise Dragon 2
> $145 USD


The original SWD2 isn't a new earbuds, it's been sold for years. It was sold by Penon Audio for about $ 70 last year.
Why is Sunrise now releasing a Limited Edition? I wonder if SWD3 isn't selling well.


----------



## DBaldock9

DBaldock9 said:


> ...
> Some of my earbuds have Microphone / Volume Controls, and I wish the portable BT DAC/Amps would pass through the Mic & Controls, when operating in LDAC mode (or any BT mode).



It turns out that my new FiiO BTR5 BT DAC/Amp _does_ allow the Mic & Music Controls to be passed through to my phone.  
. 
It also has a very good microphone of its own.


----------



## ClieOS

jogawag said:


> The original SWD2 isn't a new earbuds, it's been sold for years. It was sold by Penon Audio for about $ 70 last year.
> Why is Sunrise now releasing a Limited Edition? I wonder if SWD3 isn't selling well.



SWD2 Limited Edition is to celebrate the 10 years anniversary of its release. Simphonio is doing just fine. Their main product is the VR1 anyway, not the SWD3..


----------



## 1clearhead (May 22, 2020)

Okay, after several days with the *Snow-Lotus 1.0 by FAAEAL*, the stage presense are by far the best I've personally ever heard coming from earbuds, IMHO!

I have the Snow-Lotus 1.0 demonstrating a better and overall wider soundstage than the ones below...

TY HI-Z (by Tamrac)
VE MONK
GranVela/Mrice/Baldoor E100
Edifier H185


----------



## letlive

I'm selling my Sabia V6 earbuds, see below.


----------



## Kashtan

What is best earbuds right now or in near future? Dragon 3, CAX Red Dragon, any variants?


----------



## emusic13

Turandot seems to be at its lowest price now (from what I've seen) Is there a big difference if any between 2.5 balanced and 3.5 balanced? I mainly use 3.5 but wouldn't mind using an adapter if I got the 2.5. ( I do listen from 2.5 occasionally)

2.5 seems to be $162 now, 3.5 $178, and 2.5 with 3.5 adapter is $186. Small differences in price but hey, I like to be cheap


----------



## JackSkully

Kashtan said:


> What is best earbuds right now or in near future? Dragon 3, CAX Red Dragon, any variants?


I would say those two or pretty much on top when it comes to totl earbuds. But you might want to also consider how much you want to spend last time I spoke to Herry from cypherusaudio he said the red dragon was at a thousand USD and well the Dragon 3 is 500 if I remember correctly. I have not heard either but they are very well spoken of in the earbud community.


----------



## rkw

emusic13 said:


> Is there a big difference if any between 2.5 balanced and 3.5 balanced? I mainly use 3.5 but wouldn't mind using an adapter if I got the 2.5.


Does your amp have 3.5 balanced output? It's pretty rare and I'm surprised the Turandot even has that option. The adapter is 3.5 unbalanced to 2.5 balanced. If your amp has 3.5 unbalanced output, you have to get the 2.5 with adapter.


----------



## RobinFood (May 23, 2020)

Courtesy of @chinmie on the "Going fully wireless" thread...



chinmie said:


> has anyone tried this app?
> https://www.xda-developers.com/make-your-headphones-sound-better-automatic-eq-wavelet/amp/
> 
> it has an AutoEQ feature to make the curve closer to harman target curve, and supports quite a bunch of selections in its library, even some cheap chifis and TWSs.
> ...



This app doesn't have many earbuds, but it does have the VE Monks Plus.

I have been listening to my Monks all day, and they sound amazing with this EQ.

One thing, I think the EQ was set without foams. They don't sound right with foams, but take them off, set the EQ setting to VE Monks Plus, and suddenly you get deep punchy bass (first time I heard sub-bass on them!), with crystal clear vocals and great details and imaging. Makes the 5$ monks sound amazing, bonus points if you don't like foams.

Edit: doing a frequency test the driver seems to have a hard time and to clip a lot


----------



## palanoid

bought a pair of ToneKing Tomahawk (天魁戰斧). it's some of the most tinny sounding flathead earbuds i've heard in a while. like, the sound comes straight out from a poor quality radio. i am confused when a reviewer said it has a balanced sound.

a pair of DIY 32ohms earbuds by Orin Sound was at the other end of the spectrum by comparison. the Orin has bloated bass that drowns the highest part of the treble, though it's a lot more enjoyable when it comes to pop/rock music.

the saving grace of this tomahawk is probably imaging, which is quite good and helps me at gaming. funny thing is the Orin's are half the price of the Tomahawk. 
i wonder if there are more flathead earbuds that are simply a better version of the Orin's,like bass can be less bloating and deeper. i've had Yuin PK2 but it lacked a bit of width or soundstage you could say.


----------



## Promenadeplatz

palanoid said:


> bought a pair of ToneKing Tomahawk (天魁戰斧). it's some of the most tinny sounding flathead earbuds i've heard in a while. like, the sound comes straight out from a poor quality radio. i am confused when a reviewer said it has a balanced sound.
> 
> a pair of DIY 32ohms earbuds by Orin Sound was at the other end of the spectrum by comparison. the Orin has bloated bass that drowns the highest part of the treble, though it's a lot more enjoyable when it comes to pop/rock music.
> 
> ...


It happens when the sealing is not good enough. Try to insert or push them a little into the ear.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Today I received Smabat ST-10s Black Gold 150Ω, they improved almost everything that I was missing in the usual green ST-10. Perhaps I would just like a little less sub-bass, and a little more mid-bass, but that's my nit-picking.






Spoiler


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Alex.Grimm said:


> Today I received Smabat ST-10s Black Gold 150Ω, they improved almost everything that I was missing in the usual green ST-10. Perhaps I would just like a little less sub-bass, and a little more mid-bass, but that's my nit-picking.


Mine arrived as well; very pleased.


----------



## Raketen (May 23, 2020)

palanoid said:


> bought a pair of ToneKing Tomahawk (天魁戰斧). it's some of the most tinny sounding flathead earbuds i've heard in a while. like, the sound comes straight out from a poor quality radio. i am confused when a reviewer said it has a balanced sound.
> 
> a pair of DIY 32ohms earbuds by Orin Sound was at the other end of the spectrum by comparison. the Orin has bloated bass that drowns the highest part of the treble, though it's a lot more enjoyable when it comes to pop/rock music.
> 
> ...





Promenadeplatz said:


> It happens when the sealing is not good enough. Try to insert or push them a little into the ear.



Also, foams, double foams, dense foams, loose foams, holy foams, donut foams, front filters, rubber rings, earhooks, rubber grilles, rubber pod cones, sugru, ear pinching, avant garde positioning, etc... but mainly foams. Earbud fitting is an adventure (largely foam based) in and of itself


----------



## csglinux

Sad to see the AK EMXs 500 buds seem to have been discontinued   Does anybody know if they were ever replaced by any newer/equivalent model?


----------



## Alex.Grimm (May 23, 2020)

csglinux said:


> Sad to see the AK EMXs 500 buds seem to have been discontinued   Does anybody know if they were ever replaced by any newer/equivalent model?





Spoiler



EMX500s https://a.aliexpress.com/_d9ebp9X and https://a.aliexpress.com/_dTBZ9FT
EMX500 https://a.aliexpress.com/_dXqYDpB and https//a.aliexpress.com/_dWhCCiz
and https://a.aliexpress.com/_dUR2krX


----------



## csglinux

Alex.Grimm said:


> EMX500s https://a.aliexpress.com/_d9ebp9X and https://a.aliexpress.com/_dTBZ9FT
> EMX500 https://a.aliexpress.com/_dXqYDpB


Thank you!


----------



## palanoid

Promenadeplatz said:


> It happens when the sealing is not good enough. Try to insert or push them a little into the ear.





Raketen said:


> Also, foams, double foams, dense foams, loose foams, holy foams, donut foams, front filters, rubber rings, earhooks, rubber grilles, rubber pod cones, sugru, ear pinching, avant garde positioning, etc... but mainly foams. Earbud fitting is an adventure (largely foam based) in and of itself


thank you guys for the suggestion. yes after pushing them in harder i think they do sound better.

i tried looking at taobao for more foams and unfortunately they all look the same lol. i did find the rubber rings and hooks so i will try them in the future.
the regular foams these came with seem to be quite dense.


----------



## ClieOS (May 24, 2020)

Enjoying these right now: ST-10S Back Gold + short balanced cable + FiiO BTR3K.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

ClieOS said:


> Enjoying these right now: ST-10S Back Gold + short balanced cable + FiiO BTR3K.


What mmcx cable do you use? Could you send the name and link where to buy?


----------



## Narayan23

[QUOTE="ClieOS, post: 15634589, member: 11725"

Enjoying these right now: ST-10S Back Gold + short balanced cable + FiiO BTR3K.
[/QUOTE]

How are you liking them? Would they make your top five earbuds list? Are there any noticeable sound differences vs the Silver model? TIA and sorry for that many questions but these have caught my attention.


----------



## Brando

Hello.  I ordered in the smabat st10s (silver black) yesterday for use with my phone on a recommendation.  I undertsand the gold are supposed to be better but have a high impedence which may not be ideal for a phone output so I went with the 40ohm version. My current buds are the yuin pk2.  What can I expect going from the pk2 to the st10s?  Am I headed in the right direction?  At triple the price I'm hoping for a noticeable improvement.


----------



## ClieOS

Alex.Grimm said:


> What mmcx cable do you use? Could you send the name and link where to buy?



Made it myself, using 28AWG silver plated 6N UPOCC cables



Narayan23 said:


> How are you liking them? Would they make your top five earbuds list? Are there any noticeable sound differences vs the Silver model? TIA and sorry for that many questions but these have caught my attention.



This definitely belongs to my ToTL earbuds collection, but I don't keep a top 5 list these days.

The Black SIlver version just got a re-tuning as of May - I have a new version coming in but it will not reach me for a couple more days because of local holidays.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

ClieOS said:


> The Black SIlver version just got a re-tuning as of May - I have a new version coming in but it will not reach me for a couple more days because of local holidays.


How to distinguish the version of the Black Silver and Black Silver new tuning? will there be another name?  it’s not right in relation to the buyer to leave the same name


----------



## ClieOS

Alex.Grimm said:


> How to distinguish the version of the Black Silver and Black Silver new tuning? will there be another name?  it’s not right in relation to the buyer to leave the same name



As far as I know, there is no way to tell them apart. But for what I do know, all Black SIlver manufactured since May should have the new tuning. Again, I haven't received the new Black Silver yet, so I have no idea whether the new tuning is actually significantly different from the old tuning or not.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (May 24, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> As far as I know, there is no way to tell them apart. But for what I do know, all Black SIlver manufactured since May should have the new tuning. Again, I haven't received the new Black Silver yet, so I have no idea whether the new tuning is actually significantly different from the old tuning or not.


I had Green and I have Black Gold now. I read on the site Penon information that Black Silver has a warm sound compared to Black Gold. Is it true?


----------



## ClieOS

Alex.Grimm said:


> I had Green and I have Black Gold now. I read on the site Penon information that Black Silver has a warm sound compared to Black Gold. Is it true?



The original Black Silver, yes. It is mostly neutral but tilting toward a warm and smooth presentation.


----------



## Brando (May 24, 2020)

I got my s10s silver blacks in from amazon today with high hopes.  Tried them with my phone with foam covers as recommended.  They do have a bit of low end which is nice but the high frequencies sound like they're coming from a drive through speaker at jack n the box.  Tried them with my d90 dac and thx 789 amp on low gain to confirm.  Same thing.  Maybe it's the fit?  Couldn't quite cram them in my ear holes but when I apply pressure they sound better.  Bummer.

EDIT: Having them in just right without foam with the equalizer on hip hop mode makes a big difference.  Still deciding.

EDIT 2: EQ and fit seem to be everything with these earbuds.  After tuning and getting the fit as close as possible the sound is pretty good.  I thought they needed less treble but they ended up best with a V shape tuning.  Now they have detail and good bass.  Really surprised how much help they needed to sound right but the drivers themselves seem capable.


----------



## Kashtan

JackSkully said:


> I would say those two or pretty much on top when it comes to totl earbuds. But you might want to also consider how much you want to spend last time I spoke to Herry from cypherusaudio he said the red dragon was at a thousand USD and well the Dragon 3 is 500 if I remember correctly. I have not heard either but they are very well spoken of in the earbud community.


Thank. When I last corresponded with Henry, the red dragon cost $ 600 or 650, was close in signature to the HD800. And what other totl can you name besides these two? Can there be reliable ratings? I have a JH-16, but I want no less detail in a bigger stage.


----------



## golov17




----------



## snip3r77

Got this for the mic ( WFH) , anyone tried this?


----------



## j3n5

BloodyPenguin said:


> Enjoying the unique airy sound of the ISN Audio Rambo II.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sound? Better than BGVP DX5?


----------



## iyanr

Brando said:


> I got my s10s silver blacks in from amazon today with high hopes.  Tried them with my phone with foam covers as recommended.  They do have a bit of low end which is nice but the high frequencies sound like they're coming from a drive through speaker at jack n the box.  Tried them with my d90 dac and thx 789 amp on low gain to confirm.  Same thing.  Maybe it's the fit?  Couldn't quite cram them in my ear holes but when I apply pressure they sound better.  Bummer.
> 
> EDIT: Having them in just right without foam with the equalizer on hip hop mode makes a big difference.  Still deciding.
> 
> EDIT 2: EQ and fit seem to be everything with these earbuds.  After tuning and getting the fit as close as possible the sound is pretty good.  I thought they needed less treble but they ended up best with a V shape tuning.  Now they have detail and good bass.  Really surprised how much help they needed to sound right but the drivers themselves seem capable.


How does it compare to your yuin PK2 ? I use PK2 now, and consider to buy st10s black silver. thanks


----------



## Brando

iyanr said:


> How does it compare to your yuin PK2 ? I use PK2 now, and consider to buy st10s black silver. thanks


After spending some more time tweaking EQ and trying different styles of music I really like them.  Very good build quality and sound once set up.  It's been awhile but thinking back I had to do the same with the pk2 to get them how I like them.  With both buds at maximum potential I would say the st10s is more capable of delivering clean impact and crisp detail.  Everything sounds more clean, punchy and coherent once frequencies are adjusted.  I think the sound variation is a natural side effect of not being able to have this kind of earbud inside your ear and the sound leakage that comes with it.  The st10s to me sounds like raw potential that they never tuned at the factory but is physically capable of sounding how you want.  I'm happy with my purchase and will be keeping them.

TLDR: Crisp and punchy after EQ very good and worth the upgrade


----------



## 1clearhead

Update on the Snow-Lotus 1.0 by FAAEAL

After reaching 100 hours of playtime today, I can reassure that the Snow-Lotus 1.0 does everything right with no EQ involved or bass boost, for that matter! What amazes me is the incredible detail it displays throughout the whole range. Yes, I can even detect great amount of texture and detail in the bass region as if a live band is playing the song right in front of you. I wasn't too much of a big fan of ear buds, but these are a real eye opener for me after comparing them to my other sets of ear buds and also out-staging some of my favorite in-ear monitors, to say the least.

I honestly consider the Snow-Lotus 1.0 a serious game-changer for such a low price, IMHO!

-Clear


----------



## Slater

1clearhead said:


> Update on the Snow-Lotus 1.0 by FAAEAL
> 
> After reaching 100 hours of playtime today, I can reassure that the Snow-Lotus 1.0 does everything right with no EQ involved or bass boost, for that matter! What amazes me is the incredible detail it displays throughout the whole range. Yes, I can even detect great amount of texture and detail in the bass region as if a live band is playing the song right in front of you. I wasn't too much of a big fan of ear buds, but these are a real eye opener for me after comparing them to my other sets of ear buds and also out-staging some of my favorite in-ear monitors, to say the least.
> 
> ...



The regular version, or the balanced version?


----------



## 1clearhead

Slater said:


> The regular version, or the balanced version?


Wait there's two versions? How would I know the difference?
...any help is appreciated!


----------



## RikudouGoku

1clearhead said:


> Wait there's two versions? How would I know the difference?
> ...any help is appreciated!


1.0: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32677773445.html
1.0 balanced: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32889629399.html


----------



## 1clearhead

RikudouGoku said:


> 1.0: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32677773445.html
> 1.0 balanced: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32889629399.html



Oh? Got it!
I bought the original version.👍


----------



## 1clearhead

Now, I'm willing to buy the Snow-lotus 1.0 Plus Blue Commemorative Edition, but I don't see them on Taobao.😓


----------



## KevDzn

1clearhead said:


> Now, I'm willing to buy the Snow-lotus 1.0 Plus Blue Commemorative Edition, but I don't see them on Taobao.😓



Looks like the earbud bug has taken effect on you. Welcome!


----------



## 1clearhead

KevDzn said:


> Looks like the earbud bug has taken effect on you. Welcome!


Haha, sounds like I'm going old-school in retro style!


----------



## Brando

You got me curious.  Amazon had the snow lotus + for $9.99 so I ordered.  Who knows maybe I can get my $180 back if they're that good


----------



## MisterMudd

Brando said:


> You got me curious.  Amazon had the snow lotus + for $9.99 so I ordered.  Who knows maybe I can get my $180 back if they're that good


No. That posting is misleading. The full description describes the regular version in gray only. Amazon is not the only seller posting like that. Plus version sells for more than $9.99.


----------



## Slater

MisterMudd said:


> No. That posting is misleading. The full description describes the regular version in gray only. Amazon is not the only seller posting like that. Plus version sells for more than $9.99.



Whats unique about the plus? Is it just a blue shell?


----------



## Brando

I think these are right.  It says plus in multiple places and it's the official store of the manufacturer. https://www.amazon.com/FAAEAL-Headp...90440510&s=electronics&sr=1-1#customerReviews


----------



## iyanr

Brando said:


> After spending some more time tweaking EQ and trying different styles of music I really like them.  Very good build quality and sound once set up.  It's been awhile but thinking back I had to do the same with the pk2 to get them how I like them.  With both buds at maximum potential I would say the st10s is more capable of delivering clean impact and crisp detail.  Everything sounds more clean, punchy and coherent once frequencies are adjusted.  I think the sound variation is a natural side effect of not being able to have this kind of earbud inside your ear and the sound leakage that comes with it.  The st10s to me sounds like raw potential that they never tuned at the factory but is physically capable of sounding how you want.  I'm happy with my purchase and will be keeping them.
> 
> TLDR: Crisp and punchy after EQ very good and worth the upgrade


thank you 👍


----------



## MisterMudd

Slater said:


> Whats unique about the plus? Is it just a blue shell?


Blue shell, and nicer cloth cable on the plus versus 1.0. They sell for different prices on AliExpress. If it ain’t the blue shell it isn’t the plus version. Even on Amazon. The picture tells all, and I have both versions. I’m too old to say there is a difference in sound quality, but some people on the forum claimed so. The plus version is on Amazon for $13.99 right now, or on sale at AliExpress for $8.99.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

j3n5 said:


> Sound? Better than BGVP DX5?


So strange, I JUST have the BGVP DX5 in transit to me now.  I'll post up my thoughts when it arrives.

--


----------



## Nimweth

My review of the Smabat ST-10s is here:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-st-10s.24278/reviews


----------



## j3n5

BloodyPenguin said:


> So strange, I JUST have the BGVP DX5 in transit to me now.  I'll post up my thoughts when it arrives.
> 
> --


Please do, but still, Rambo 2, how do they sound?


----------



## Sam L

j3n5 said:


> Please do, but still, Rambo 2, how do they sound?


I'm still waiting for my Rambo 2's to come in (ordered May 4th). I'm hoping they'll arrive in the next week or so. I'll post my observations.


----------



## golov17

In the beginning were ...  first earbuds for our hobby  Sony mdr-e252 1982 year


----------



## Sam L

iyanr said:


> How does it compare to your yuin PK2 ? I use PK2 now, and consider to buy st10s black silver. thanks


I have the pk2 as well. Waiting for my st10s black/silver to arrive. I'll post comparisons when I get the st10s


----------



## Brando

I changed my mind. The st10s does sound better with foam.  I dismissed the foam covers at first because I was hearing pre EQ sound and wasn't happy with it.  With eq AND foam they sound just about right.  More balanced and warm.


----------



## golov17

Brando said:


> I changed my mind. The st10s does sound better with foam.  I dismissed the foam covers at first because I was hearing pre EQ sound and wasn't happy with it.  With eq AND foam they sound just about right.  More balanced and warm.


the best combination for me is thick for silver and thin foams for gold


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Smabat ST-10S Black-Gold sounding fine but the larger diameter is physically hurting the entrance area of my rather small ear canals 
Hoping, that I'll adapt to it and the ache goes away with a few more days of wearing them. Double full foams muddied the sound... playing around with double donuts at the moment.


----------



## aertus

what are good earbuds under 50 bucks? im looking at sony or sennheisser


----------



## WoodyLuvr

aertus said:


> what are good earbuds under 50 bucks? im looking at sony or sennheisser


If you mean ear BUDS and not iems then you should consider _*NICEHCK*_* Audio B40 or ME80. *Also well regarded are the *RY4S MMCX; Kube v1; and ELIBUDS ELI AUDIO SABIA V7.*


----------



## dharmasteve

Have been so OCD with my IEMs that I've forgotten about my Buds for ages. Put my Rose Masya Mk2 (Pro's) in for the first time in ages (months). Wow they are good...... easily driven and sound excellent. They sound fresh with superb bass for a Bud. On Ambitionz az a Ridah....2PAC, the bass outdoes any IEM I have.


----------



## dharmasteve

WoodyLuvr said:


> If you mean ear BUDS and not iems then you should consider _*NICEHCK*_* Audio B40 or ME80. *Also well regarded are the *RY4S MMCX; Kube v1; and ELIBUDS ELI AUDIO SABIA V7.*


The Nicehck B40 is amazing for it's cost. Maybe the best value Bud around.


----------



## jogawag

golov17 said:


> In the beginning were ...  first earbuds for our hobby  Sony mdr-e252 1982 year


The first Earbuds in the world developed by Sony! Our vintage! (The old Sony was amazing because the Canal type was developed by Sony as well.)

By the way, isn't mdr-e848 your favorite sound more than the historical mdr-e252?


----------



## ClieOS

The retune ST-10S Black Silver is here. As you can tell from the graph, they are quite different.









The new tuning is closer to that of Black Gold, though I do think Black Gold sounds grander and more effortless


----------



## baskingshark

ClieOS said:


> The retune ST-10S Black Silver is here. As you can tell from the graph, they are quite different.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info! Looks good. But as buyers how will we know which black silver version the seller mails to us?


----------



## ClieOS

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for the info! Looks good. But as buyers how will we know which black silver version the seller mails to us?



That, I have no idea.


----------



## jogawag (May 27, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> The retune ST-10S Black Silver is here. As you can tell from the graph, they are quite different.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mr. @ClieOS, Looking at the graph of the old Green ST-10 you showed in a previous post (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-14910279) , it looks like it's a better bass than the new Silver ST-10S and a lot like the new Gold ST-10S.

In conclusion, if we have an old Green ST-10, we don't even have to buy the new Silver ST-10S or even Gold ST-10S.

Mr. @ClieOS, what do you think about this conclusion?


----------



## ClieOS

jogawag said:


> In conclusion, if we have an old non-Silvber ST-10, we don't need to buy the new Silver/Gold ST-10S.
> 
> Mr. @ClieOS, what do you think about this conclusion?



I think you might have over-read into these graphs. These are not calibrated measurement and thus they can't be compared in absolute terms. They are being centered at 1kHz for convenience and common practice but you can just as well re-center them which ever way that you want.

All 3 graphs below are really the same, but centered at around 10kHz, 1kHz and 100Hz respectably. The actual subjective experience is however likely in between them.


----------



## Promenadeplatz

WoodyLuvr said:


> Smabat ST-10S Black-Gold sounding fine but the larger diameter is physically hurting the entrance area of my rather small ear canals
> Hoping, that I'll adapt to it and the ache goes away with a few more days of wearing them. Double full foams muddied the sound... playing around with double donuts at the moment.


Otherwise consider an Otoplasty aka ear surgery  .........


----------



## Promenadeplatz

aertus said:


> what are good earbuds under 50 bucks? im looking at sony or sennheisser


Sony MH750 (if you find some, rare).


----------



## Promenadeplatz (May 27, 2020)

I did consider the Porta Pro cheap but given what some of those earbuds that you all named here do offer I am thinking now that they are expensive at all !!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Today I got NICEHCK Traceless






Spoiler


----------



## kr0mka

WoodyLuvr said:


> Smabat ST-10S Black-Gold sounding fine but the larger diameter is physically hurting the entrance area of my rather small ear canals
> Hoping, that I'll adapt to it and the ache goes away with a few more days of wearing them. Double full foams muddied the sound... playing around with double donuts at the moment.



Had the same issue, changing the foams didn't help much for me, but in the end the pain went away after like 3 days of usage. The initial discomfort is worth the sound of these IMO


----------



## F700

Completly newbie in the Earbuds world here. I have been through the last 20 or so pages of this thread and pulled the trigger for the Smabat ST-10S Black/Gold. Absolutely no idea what to expect, exciting.

Regarding source and amplification, I think I am ready and well-equipped to welcome these guys


----------



## vygas

Hello everyone, I have a bit of silly question, do the different colours of the monk+ sound (brown, purple and clear) differently, or is it just a different coloured shell? I have heard that the clear ones have a slightly thinner shell than the other colours so I am interested to see if the sound is different.


----------



## BlacLord

Been listening to my **** KP120s for a while now and decided to play with the filters at last; the blue ones are underwhelming, flat. The red ones are pretty good, edging in detail over the black but lacking the bass a little.

Black is best.


----------



## Brando (May 28, 2020)

Got the snow lotus 1.0 plus today.  These are the first buds I've had that sound good without tweaking.  Tbh they make lots of other brands look like a scam.  They're not HiFi or anything but for 13 bucks they're ridiculous. The st10s is still better but not 6x better to match the price.  Pleasantly surprised.  Sorry pk2, off you go!
🗑🧹


----------



## baskingshark

Alex.Grimm said:


> Today I got NICEHCK Traceless
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So does it sound the same as a Vido?


----------



## Brando (May 27, 2020)

damn I just realized amazon charged me double for the st10s.  should have shopped at ali express.  oops! lesson learned.

EDIT:  The seller was kind enough to make it right.  You miss 100% of the shots you don't take!


----------



## Alex.Grimm

baskingshark said:


> So does it sound the same as a Vido?


The sound is similar to the red Vido, maybe even better. No way to compare.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

vygas said:


> Hello everyone, I have a bit of silly question, do the different colours of the monk+ sound (brown, purple and clear) differently, or is it just a different coloured shell? I have heard that the clear ones have a slightly thinner shell than the other colours so I am interested to see if the sound is different.





Spoiler



https://www.qarnej.com/2016/11/does-color-of-ve-monk-affect-its-sound.html?m=1


----------



## Alex.Grimm

BlacLord said:


> Been listening to my **** KP120s for a while now and decided to play with the filters at last; the blue ones are underwhelming, flat. The red ones are pretty good, edging in detail over the black but lacking the bass a little.
> 
> Black is best.


I confirm, I do not understand why they made other filters, it was possible to make a black filter that could not be removed only


----------



## Sam L

curious... are any of you using the Dayton Audio iMM-6 to graph your earbuds? If so, how are you coupling the buds to the mic?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

WoodyLuvr said:


> Smabat ST-10S Black-Gold sounding fine but the larger diameter is physically hurting the entrance area of my rather small ear canals
> Hoping, that I'll adapt to it and the ache goes away with a few more days of wearing them. Double full foams muddied the sound... playing around with double donuts at the moment.





kr0mka said:


> Had the same issue, changing the foams didn't help much for me, but in the end the pain went away after like 3 days of usage. The initial discomfort is worth the sound of these IMO


Pain and discomfort is now subsiding and nearly completely gone


----------



## jogawag

ClieOS said:


> I think you might have over-read into these graphs. These are not calibrated measurement and thus they can't be compared in absolute terms. They are being centered at 1kHz for convenience and common practice but you can just as well re-center them which ever way that you want.
> 
> All 3 graphs below are really the same, but centered at around 10kHz, 1kHz and 100Hz respectably. The actual subjective experience is however likely in between them.


If I look at the 3 comparison graphs of Black Gold ST-10S and Green ST-10 without listening to the actual sound then I would choose  the Green ST-10 which the bass, midrange, and most of the treble are each flat tending.
(You may tell me not to judge without listening to the actual sound, but it is you who brought up the comparative FR graph earlier.)

Wait, Mr. @ ClieOS.
You tried to defend the Black Gold ST-10S by making the 3 comparison graphs.
But you didn't mention the new Black Silver ST-10S at all.
At least you must have implicitly admitted that those who already have the Green ST-10 do not need to buy the new Black Silver ST-10S.


----------



## ClieOS (May 28, 2020)

jogawag said:


> If I look at the 3 comparison graphs of Black Gold ST-10S and Green ST-10 without listening to the actual sound then I would choose  the Green ST-10 which the bass, midrange, and most of the treble are each flat tending.
> (You may tell me not to judge without listening to the actual sound, but it is you who brought up the comparative FR graph earlier.)
> 
> Wait, Mr. @ ClieOS.
> ...



Please DO NOT put words into my mouth.

First thing first - anyone who ever measured earbuds will know that flatness of earbuds in a graph is not that same as flatness of IEM in a graph, because earbuds leak sound in the ear, especially in the bass region, and therefore need extra to compensate. Exactly how much tends to be vary slightly from person to person due to fit / leak - but I have said it before, ST-10 is about as flat as I know for any given earbuds that I have listened to. I never say that ST-10S Black Silver (original) / Gold is as flat as ST-10. So if flatness / neutral is what you are looking for, then my recommendation is still on ST-10. In fact, I believe I have made similar comment regarding ST-10 vs. ST-10S Black Gold in some previous post, even before I received the new ST-10S Black Silver.

Secondly, my 3 graphs are meant to show that the original  2 separated graphs are not calibrated for direct comparison, and therefore shouldn't be used as such. I didn't make them with any other intention or implication. To me, taking any graphs out of context is just as bad as having no graphs at all.

Lastly, I made the new ST-10S Black Silver graphs as soon as I received it (with intention to show that the tuning has been changed fairly dramatically) and haven't actually listened to it for any prolonged period of time nor critically. Generally, I will put most earbuds I get to at least 100 hours of burn-in (*and no because I an a true burn-in believer, but only because I want to rule out any possible burn-in factor, if it dd occur) and at least a few hours of critical listening before I am comfortably discussing its signature. In short - it takes time for me to understand the character of different earbuds, and hastily making conclusion is not how I like to treat my hobby.

_I am out_.


----------



## waynes world

[





F700 said:


> Completly newbie in the Earbuds world here. I have been through the last 20 or so pages of this thread and pulled the trigger for the Smabat ST-10S Black/Gold. Absolutely no idea what to expect, exciting.



Me, I've been through the last 1000 pages, and have been lusting over the Black/Gold's since I read about them, and I _still _haven't pulled the trigger on them. I like your style a lot better than mine LOL! Btw, I have the Svara L 32ohms which I love and are a predecessor of the smabat's, so I can imagine how good the black/golds are. Enjoy!


----------



## F700

waynes world said:


> [
> 
> Me, I've been through the last 1000 pages, and have been lusting over the Black/Gold's since I read about them, and I _still _haven't pulled the trigger on them. I like your style a lot better than mine LOL! Btw, I have the Svara L 32ohms which I love and are a predecessor of the smabat's, so I can imagine how good the black/golds are. Enjoy!


 I thought that spending this money was not a very high risk, as I surely can sell them back for 70 - 80% of their price, if I don't like the sound or the fit.


----------



## jogawag (May 29, 2020)

waynes world said:


> [
> 
> Me, I've been through the last 1000 pages, and have been lusting over the Black/Gold's since I read about them, and I _still _haven't pulled the trigger on them. I like your style a lot better than mine LOL! Btw, I have the Svara L 32ohms which I love and are a predecessor of the smabat's, so I can imagine how good the black/golds are. Enjoy!


The initial type SVARA-L 96Ω (?), which is unusable for out-of-tune sounds, and the initial type SMABAT ST-10, which sometimes breaks the sound due to strange connection of MMCX terminal part, I totaled US $ 180 "I bought them with my own money". And I haven't exchanged both. I have two consecutive painful experiences like these. The present of SMABAT builds on such a dire past.

So I have to be very skeptical of this unconditional compliment to SMABAT BLACK GOLD / SILVER and of the quality control of SMABAT. I think there should be a lot of people who agree with my opinion.


----------



## ClieOS

Just to be clear, I paid for my Smabat as well.


----------



## GREQ

Promenadeplatz said:


> Sony MH750 (if you find some, rare).


These Sonys are not earbuds, but IEMs, so this is in the wrong thread.
They are actually terrible. 
They're 'rare' because most of them get correctly thrown into the trash.   (I actually just gave mine away... maybe that's more evil...hmm..)


----------



## jogawag

ClieOS said:


> Just to be clear, I paid for my Smabat as well.


Please tell me for reference. For SVARS-L, Green ST-10, OLD Black Silver ST-10S, NEW Black Silver ST-10S, Black Gold ST-10S, you paid over $ 80, $ 80, $ 40 (discount for advice fee), $ 130 or more. Is it?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

What's with the _spanish inquisition _against @ClieOS... did we miss something? What is afoul here?

It is worth mentioning that this here ear bud thread has historically been one of, if not, the most friendly, polite, and well-mannered on Head-Fi with very few dramas that I can recall... I certainly do hope it remains so.


----------



## ClieOS (May 29, 2020)

jogawag said:


> Please tell me for reference. For SVARS-L, Green ST-10, OLD Black Silver ST-10S, NEW Black Silver ST-10S, Black Gold ST-10S, you paid over $ 80, $ 80, $ 40 (discount for advice fee), $ 130 or more. Is it?



From on top of my head, pretty sure I paid more since I own multiple pairs of the same model.

If you don't trust me, that's fine. I don't need it anyway. I am out, for good.


----------



## jogawag (May 29, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> From on top of my head, pretty sure I paid more since I own multiple pairs of the same model.
> 
> If you don't trust me, that's fine. I don't need it anyway. I am out, for good.


I am in this thread, so of course I trust you.
I just thought if you got some discount because you are famous.

What I wanted to say in reply to @waynes world was that "Though SMBAT has been annoying buyers twice in the past and SMBAT is only receiving an unconditional compliment on their new products. I am not satisfied as one of the past buyers. "


----------



## Danneq

Kashtan said:


> Thank. When I last corresponded with Henry, the red dragon cost $ 600 or 650, was close in signature to the HD800. And what other totl can you name besides these two? Can there be reliable ratings? I have a JH-16, but I want no less detail in a bigger stage.



On one of my more and more rare visits here. There are more TOTL earbuds than SWD3 and CAX Red Dragon. I remember Herry said that he would not make more Red Dragon because it took too much time and he's got other projects plus a full time job. The first pair was made after a guy asked for a custom made pair of earbuds. I actually own that very pair, and bought it second hand from the original owner. I think he paid close to $700 and I got it for a little over $600. That pair had a sound that was customed to be close to HD800s. At least one more pair has been made, that was sold to a guy in South Korea. If you search this thread, you can probably find info on that.
While I think Red Dragon is far above my other earbuds in SQ, dynamics, detail etc, I am not sure if I would pay that much again for earbuds or headphones. (other earbuds I own are for example SWD2+, Cypherus Campfred 2 & Zoomfred, Blox TM 7 & TM9 & ABnormal Diomnes Lv2). Plus the cable is super stiff which makes difficult to use when moving around. Just move your head slightly and they pop out of your ears.

Prices have gone up the last few years. Still cheaper than IEMs, though.

There are a lot new TOTL earbuds that have come out in the last 1-2 years that I have not heard. They might be quite good. I was close to buying the Ourart QJ21 but after Swedish customs started putting import taxes on EVERYTHING from outside the EU, no matter the value of the parcel, I sort of lost the will to buy stuff from outside the EU.

Lately I've been amazed by the beauty of the earbuds that Korean Dez Kim has custom made and displayed on his Facebook page. Check it out!


----------



## RikudouGoku

Danneq said:


> On one of my more and more rare visits here. There are more TOTL earbuds than SWD3 and CAX Red Dragon. I remember Herry said that he would not make more Red Dragon because it took too much time and he's got other projects plus a full time job. The first pair was made after a guy asked for a custom made pair of earbuds. I actually own that very pair, and bought it second hand from the original owner. I think he paid close to $700 and I got it for a little over $600. That pair had a sound that was customed to be close to HD800s. At least one more pair has been made, that was sold to a guy in South Korea. If you search this thread, you can probably find info on that.
> While I think Red Dragon is far above my other earbuds in SQ, dynamics, detail etc, I am not sure if I would pay that much again for earbuds or headphones. (other earbuds I own are for example SWD2+, Cypherus Campfred 2 & Zoomfred, Blox TM 7 & TM9 & ABnormal Diomnes Lv2). Plus the cable is super stiff which makes difficult to use when moving around. Just move your head slightly and they pop out of your ears.
> 
> Prices have gone up the last few years. Still cheaper than IEMs, though.
> ...


Wow another Swedish headfier!!!

I thought I was alone out here


----------



## Danneq

RikudouGoku said:


> Wow another Swedish headfier!!!
> 
> I thought I was alone out here



Well, perhaps you are these days. I used to be VERY active from around 2010-2018. After that stupid decision to put import taxes on everything from outside the EU I haven't bought many earbuds. My last pair was SWD2+ that I bought from Massdrop in the autumn of 2018. I feel I cannot contribute anything here if I don't buy anything new...

There used to be another Swede here, from Göteborg, but he stopped visiting this forum a while ago, I think...


----------



## superuser1

Esteemed members, does anyone know where i could convert something like the NiceHCK B40 into mmcx @ClieOS


----------



## RobinFood

jogawag said:


> I am in this thread, so of course I trust you.
> I just thought if you got some discount because you are famous.
> 
> What I wanted to say in reply to @waynes world was that "Though SMBAT has been annoying buyers twice in the past and SMBAT is only receiving an unconditional compliment on their new products. I am not satisfied as one of the past buyers. "



I got two faulty Smabat st-10s in a row. Luckily I anticipated it and bought from Amazon. It was more expensive than Aliexpress, but as a prime member I was pretty confident that I could get an easy replacement if there was a problem with them.

The first time I had a faulty mmcx cord. The second time I had rattling in the sun bass region, which is a seriously annoying and common problem with earbuds.

I don't put the fault entirely on Smabat though. I think it's a thing with earbuds and IEMs in general. They are really small and small but annoying qc issues seem to get through. I had similar issues with Sony IEMs and custom hand made earbuds. It's just part of the game, in a way. I almost always make sure I can get easy replacements if I have issues.


----------



## jogawag (May 29, 2020)

RobinFood said:


> I got two faulty Smabat st-10s in a row. Luckily I anticipated it and bought from Amazon. It was more expensive than Aliexpress, but as a prime member I was pretty confident that I could get an easy replacement if there was a problem with them.
> 
> The first time I had a faulty mmcx cord. The second time I had rattling in the sun bass region, which is a seriously annoying and common problem with earbuds.
> 
> I don't put the fault entirely on Smabat though. I think it's a thing with earbuds and IEMs in general. They are really small and small but annoying qc issues seem to get through. I had similar issues with Sony IEMs and custom hand made earbuds. It's just part of the game, in a way. I almost always make sure I can get easy replacements if I have issues.


You were smart to think to buy Smabat st-10s from Amazon, 'cause at that time it was already famous that the quality control of Smabat is poor.
But when I bought faulted SVARA-L and old Smabat st-10 I don't know enough about the poor quality control of Smabat, and they were not sold on Amazon yet. And so far I've bought 3 IEMs and 1 Earbuds for MMCX, but they were all fine...


----------



## baskingshark (May 30, 2020)

Hi earbuds aficionados!

In view of the previous earbuds thread being closed for replies, here's a new one for discussion of all things earbuds related, from cheap $1 USD sets all the way to TOTL ones.

TBH, I've always looked down on earbuds for many years, as I've always liked isolation and subbass response of IEMs. I'm a pretty new convert to the earbuds rabbithole after trying a few in mid 2019, and I've not looked back. Earbuds are like mini headphones, providing good soundstage compared to IEMs, yet without the heat/clamp that traditional headphones give. Granted, they do not have isolation, but they generally have good timbre and even at sub $20, there are many good sounding buds nowadays. Also, for folks that get ear infections/poor fit with IEMs, earbuds are another route to audio nirvana!

As I'm typing this, I'm rocking a RY4S 300 ohm bud in my ears now! I've learnt a lot from the earbuds gurus in the previous thread, so I look forward to your input and experiences with earbuds!






I do hope the old thread gets reopened one of these days though. Mods or ClieOS, please let us know if it is reopened, and I can shut down this one for sure!


----------



## mochill

I'll be first to join this thread. I have been a fan of earbuds since the blox tm7


----------



## IEMusic

I’m not an earbud aficionado, b/c I’ve never been able to get a good fit.  So, I’ll follow this thread to learn!


----------



## baskingshark (May 30, 2020)

IEMusic said:


> I’m not an earbud aficionado, b/c I’ve never been able to get a good fit.  So, I’ll follow this thread to learn!



Well buds generally come in a few shell shapes, the common being categorized into 4 types. These info below is courtesy of @WoodyLuvr and some of the gurus from the old headfi thread, thank you for the excellent info and 100% credit to them, especially @WoodyLuvr who took the time to compile and source the info for us, extremely helpful, thanks once again!

*Type I*; MX500 shell (eg Monks, Yukis) - this mimicks the original Sennheiser MX400/500 Lightweight In-Ear Headphones (c 2001) (it is larger in size and diameter; protrudes outwards more; and has a longer/wider stem than Yuin PK2 shell).

*Type II*; Yuin PK shell (eg PK2, Docomo) - is slightly shorter and narrower stem wise with a smaller diameter and head than the MX500 shell, this mimicks the c2006 Japanese Docomo New Variant earbud series.

*Type III*; bell shaped (_Moondrop Liebesleid, FAAEL Datura Pro, K's Poseidon/Ling/LBB)

*Type IV; *New Variants shell (which includes NiceHCK ME80, Smabat ST10, Rose Technologies Mojito/Maysa, Toneking, DAIK etc)._


*MX500 (left) vs Yuin PK (right)* :



Yuin PK shells typically have two long Cylon-like slots in the middle of the back cover while the MX500 shells typically have a long slot on the top outer rim with some combination of holes and short slots on the left and right side rim. However, there are many slight variants of both to date.


*Type 1: MX500 like shells:*





*Type 2: Yuin PK like shells:*



*Type 3: bell shaped:






Type 4: NiceHCK ME80 shell*




*Type 4: Smabat ST10 shell*







U can possibly get a better fit by putting on thicker foams (or even double layers of foams), much like eartips help the fit of an IEM. Or possibly trying to wear them over ears instead of cable down.


----------



## Brando

I've had the yuin pk2 for a few years and thought they were pretty good until I got a couple new sets last week.  For $13 the snow lotus plus destroys the pk2.  Also got the smabat st10s silver/black and was disappointed at first listen but for some reason I can't explain they keep sounding better the more I use them.  I never believed in break in and maybe I'm brainwashing myself but I swear they sound way better now that I've been using them awhile.  Awesome earbuds!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 3, 2022)

*ꟻ⅃ATHEAD TIME⅃IИƎ*


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Got a Yincrow RW-1000 Bass Pro Version, I liked more than Smabat ST-10s Black Gold






Spoiler


----------



## RikudouGoku

Any good buds with a warmer and more relaxed sound, with good timbre and tight powerful bass with the Type 1 or Type 2 build? 

Since I have no idea how many options there are lets say a budget of 200 usd. (if there are a lot of options then maybe cut it down to 100 usd).

TIA


----------



## baskingshark

Alex.Grimm said:


> Got a Yincrow RW-1000 Bass Pro Version, I liked more than Smabat ST-10s Black Gold
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice! Where did u get it from? Other than boosted bass, how is it different from the original Yincrow RW1000?


----------



## Alex.Grimm (May 30, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Nice! Where did u get it from? Other than boosted bass, how is it different from the original Yincrow RW1000?


I did not have a standard version, because I read the review and they talked about the lack of lows (bass). I was glad when I heard that there will be a version where the bass is present.


----------



## baskingshark

Alex.Grimm said:


> I did not have a standard version, because I read the review and they talked about the lack of lows (bass). I was glad when I heard that there will be a version where the bass is present.



K this set is definitely on my wishlist if it is discounted enough during the next sale. I asked a few sellers on aliexpress about it, and most didn't even know a RW1000 bass version existed LOL.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

baskingshark said:


> K this set is definitely on my wishlist if it is discounted enough during the next sale. I asked a few sellers on aliexpress about it, and most didn't even know a RW1000 bass version existed LOL.



On Aliexpress


Spoiler



LuckLZ Audio Store https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000412299257.html
SA Audio Store https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000419641119.html


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 6, 2020)

Check out our new *HISTORY OF EARBUDS (Key Models Timeline)*


----------



## Brando

Would be nice if there was a loose ranking in the first post. Not a rigid order as much as a short list of the current best with a few notes like "best value for bassheads" or top buds from 100-200 dollars or something along those lines with a few categories to help people out once the thread is way too big to go through.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Brando said:


> Would be nice if there was a loose ranking in the first post. Not a rigid order as much as a short list of the current best with a few notes like "best value for bassheads" or top buds from 100-200 dollars or something along those lines with a few categories to help people out once the thread is way too big to go through.


Although a brilliant suggestion historically rankings have never gone over well... the original earbuds thread had a ranking list years ago but it caused a period of disagreement that it was eventually taken down in order to maintain the peace. No one would could agree to disagree


----------



## mochill

We are forgetting the blox tm5 , anvse , and other .


----------



## WoodyLuvr

mochill said:


> We are forgetting the blox tm5 , anvse , and other .


Blox TM5 is there mate... c2010 

Sure! I will gladly add any others please just provide me by PM the following as best as you can:

*Debut Year --- Brand Name --- Model Name & Number --- Impedance Rating *


----------



## Narayan23

Thank you baskingshark for opening this thread  & WoodyLuvr for your involvement.


----------



## Narayan23

Alex.Grimm said:


> Got a Yincrow RW-1000 Bass Pro Version, I liked more than Smabat ST-10s Black Gold



Hi Alex, could you expand a bit on the differences between the Yincrow and the Smabat that made you like the RW-1000 Bass Pro more? TIA.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Narayan23 said:


> Hi Alex, could you expand a bit on the differences between the Yincrow and the Smabat that made you like the RW-1000 Bass Pro more? TIA.


In ST-10s Gold, the bass fits strongly in the middle and the middle is not as clean as in RW1000 Bass Pro.


----------



## RikudouGoku

are these good?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000858070091.html


----------



## siderak

Thanks for opening this thread!


----------



## assassin10000

RikudouGoku said:


> are these good?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000858070091.html



I'd check the DIY thread. They may know if those drivers sound good. (I think they do, but cannot confirm.)
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/


----------



## RikudouGoku

assassin10000 said:


> I'd check the DIY thread. They may know if those drivers sound good. (I think they do, but cannot confirm.)
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/


Wait do you only get the driver with that?


----------



## assassin10000

RikudouGoku said:


> Wait do you only get the driver with that?



No. 

But NSC sells a lot of DIY components and I'm pretty sure that driver has been used a few times by others in that thread. Good seller, I've used them a few times.


----------



## IEMusic

I would be very interested in seeing pics of people wearing their various ear buds.  I’ve always found fit to be an issue, as they keep falling out of my ears, even when using foam coverings.


----------



## Ron Good

Serious earbud question. I already have these:

Edifier H180, VE Monk Plus, NICEHK B40, FAAEAL Datura Pro, TY Hi-Z HP-32, Earbuds Anonymous 32 and Huawei CM33 half-ins. Although all have their good points (some, very good points), not one of them has the overall warmth or richness--or the lows--of my JVC Gumy HA-F160s.

So, I'm looking for recommendations, with a budget of up to around $50. The JVCs cost me $10 in Canada, so I figure I should be able to get something full, warm and accurate for $50. What should I consider?

With my sincere thanks for any pointers.


----------



## baskingshark (May 30, 2020)

Ron Good said:


> Serious earbud question. I already have these:
> 
> Edifier H180, VE Monk Plus, NICEHK B40, FAAEAL Datura Pro, TY Hi-Z HP-32, Earbuds Anonymous 32 and Huawei CM33 half-ins. Although all have their good points (some, very good points), not one of them has the overall warmth or richness--or the lows--of my JVC Gumy HA-F160s.
> 
> ...



I hope the others can chime in as I'm not that experienced in earbuds, but 2 sets I found that were pretty ok for low end were:

1) HE 150 Pro - V shaped, excellent subbass/midbass thump considering it is a bud. Upper mids/treble can occasionally get sibilant. In fact it sounds like a traditional budget CHIFI IEM rather than a earbud actually. I ain't too pleased with the non detachable cables that are thin like a twig, I'm really scared it can just snap one day LOL.

2) RY4S 300 ohm - Balanced U shaped tuning, subbass extension and midbass ain't as good as HE 150 Pro, midbass thump adequate, but not bad for a bud (considering I'm basshead), slight upper mids boost, good soundstage and timbre and technicalities. Needs amping.

3) RY4S 32 ohm plus - V shaped, more midbass than the 300 ohm version, but bass is muddy, smears and has midbass bleed. Not as good technicals as the 300 ohm version, and upper mids on 32 ohm plus a bit sharp occasionally.

There's an aliexpress summer sale due in mid june 2020, so possibly some good discounts to be had if u wait 2 weeks or so! Good luck with your search. I'm also interested in low ends in a bud, so hopefully there are other suggestions!


----------



## assassin10000

Brando said:


> I've had the yuin pk2 for a few years and thought they were pretty good until I got a couple new sets last week.  For $13 the snow lotus plus destroys the pk2.  Also got the smabat st10s silver/black and was disappointed at first listen but for some reason I can't explain they keep sounding better the more I use them.  I never believed in break in and maybe I'm brainwashing myself but I swear they sound way better now that I've been using them awhile.  Awesome earbuds!



You are probably acclamating to the new sound signature. The brain anticipates a certain sound and can take time to adjust. It's what some call 'brain burn-in' and is probably what you are experiencing imo.




Brando said:


> Would be nice if there was a loose ranking in the first post. Not a rigid order as much as a short list of the current best with a few notes like "best value for bassheads" or top buds from 100-200 dollars or something along those lines with a few categories to help people out once the thread is way too big to go through.





WoodyLuvr said:


> Although a brilliant suggestion historically rankings have never gone over well... the original earbuds thread had a ranking list years ago but it caused a period of disagreement that it was eventually taken down in order to maintain the peace. No one would could agree to disagree



^ this.



Ron Good said:


> Serious earbud question. I already have these:
> 
> Edifier H180, VE Monk Plus, NICEHK B40, FAAEAL Datura Pro, TY Hi-Z HP-32, Earbuds Anonymous 32 and Huawei CM33 half-ins. Although all have their good points (some, very good points), not one of them has the overall warmth or richness--or the lows--of my JVC Gumy HA-F160s.
> 
> ...



What genre's do you typically listen to? What volume level? What lows are you looking for? Do you want massive sub-bass and warmth or just enough to sound natural with ok 'punch'?

The best warm and rich signature bud I've heard is the K's LB (or LBB), which is about $30. It doesn't have the greatest 'air' but still has decent detail without being dull or muffled sounding. Small, comfortable and good sounding. 

Slightly warm tint but not as good sounding for me was the BK2, also cheap and usually $25 or less.

Yuin PK2's also have a warm sound, but the new version is not the same from what others have said.


----------



## captione

Vidos might be your best bet.


----------



## Sunstealer

I used to have loads of Sony earbuds back in the 80s but always recalled them fitting poorly. There's nothing around for me in the IEM game at the moment so took a punt on a pair of RY4S plus 32Ohm. I like the replaceable cable bit. I'll see if I can get them to fit before deciding whether this is the next obsession to get into!


----------



## IEMusic

Would you consider these earbuds?  Growing up, these type of phones were what I always used and really liked.  They had a lot of bass (“Megabass”).  I was upset when they essentially went away, until IEMs came about.


----------



## RikudouGoku

IEMusic said:


> Would you consider these earbuds?  Growing up, these type of phones were what I always used and really liked.  They had a lot of bass (“Megabass”).  I was upset when they essentially went away, until IEMs came about.


wow never seen those before, how do you even wear them?


----------



## Sunstealer

I remember those! They usually folded up and the plastic portion that held the rail would always dislocate then break. Very wierd fit. I think the speaker portion would swivel by 90 degrees? Cannot remember clearly. My best ever Walkman was a WM-A602 - the size of a cassette and only needed one AA battery.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> wow never seen those before, how do you even wear them?


A long time ago, during the the time when telephones had magic wires that went into mysterious holes in our walls, we would place these magic items over our heads... carefully placing the band over and on top of our heads while seating the buds into the outer canals of our ears. At the the other end of the cable was a 3.5mm plug which would then be inserted into a very little Japanese man named "Walk" who only if properly energized would play music via magnetic tapes housed in plastic cassettes. Ahhh, the good ole' days how I do miss them.


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> A long time ago, during the the time when telephones had magic wires that went into mysterious holes in our walls, we would place these magic items over our heads... carefully placing the band over and on top of our heads while seating the buds into the outer canals of our ears. At the the other end of the cable was a 3.5mm plug which would then be inserted into a very little Japanese man named "Walk" who only if properly energized would play music via magnetic tapes housed in plastic cassettes. Ahhh, the good ole' days how I do miss them.


Well I dont remember having those kind of telephones when I was a kid, guess I am too young    (I am 20).


----------



## IEMusic

RikudouGoku said:


> Well I dont remember having those kind of telephones when I was a kid, guess I am too young    (I am 20).


No wonder you haven‘t ever seen those headphones .  The vertical disc-like driver shells go directly into your ear canal.  They don‘t seal, so they really are more like ear buds.  Believe it or not, a lot of them had bass head levels.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 3, 2020)

IEMusic said:


> Believe it or not, a lot of them had bass head levels.


Megaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

As in Sony's *Mega Bass* feature


----------



## RikudouGoku

IEMusic said:


> No wonder you haven‘t ever seen those headphones .  The vertical disc-like driver shells go directly into your ear canal.  They don‘t seal, so they really are more like ear buds.  Believe it or not, a lot of them had bass head levels.


Did earbuds make them extinct?


----------



## IEMusic

RikudouGoku said:


> Did earbuds make them extinct?


Pretty much, but the popularity of on/over ear headphones also contributed.


----------



## Ron Good

assassin10000 said:


> What genre's do you typically listen to? What volume level? What lows are you looking for? Do you want massive sub-bass and warmth or just enough to sound natural with ok 'punch'?



Thank you so much for your detailed answer. Very helpful. I mostly listen--low to mid volume--to C-pop, chill/wave, dream/folk pop, lo-fi, post-rock, IDM, the less aggressive end of shoe gaze, smooth jazz, soul and R&B. Sometimes classic rock. The heaviest is maybe like Prodigy or Pantera, but that's very much like spice on my main courses  



baskingshark said:


> I hope the others can chime in as I'm not that experienced in earbuds...There's an aliexpress summer sale due in mid june 2020, so possibly some good discounts to be had if u wait 2 weeks or so! Good luck with your search. I'm also interested in low ends in a bud, so hopefully there are other suggestions!



Great hint about the summer sale! I appreciate your detailed suggestions, too.


----------



## FastAndClean

why old thread closed? i have ourart acg, they hi res


----------



## AZ Greg (May 31, 2020)

Hi all! First time posting here in quite a bit. Over 10 years ago this place helped me discover the Yuin PK3s which blew me away at the time for the price to value ratio and satisfied my needs.

I recently found myself looking at cheap buds again out of boredom and realized they've come a long way. I ordered another pair of PK3s for nostalgia's sake, but I also ordered and received the NiceHCK EB2s. I'm really enjoying them and it's reminding me of what I've been missing going the full wireless route with my AirPod Pros (Which are good in their own right).

I also have a pair of HE 150PROs on the way that I'm looking forward to. Anyway, I'm just looking for other earbud recommendations in the sub $50 category to try out. What are some of the other best choices that are still available? I listen to a little bit of everything and at sub $50 I don't need specialized recommendations, just anything that stands out in this price group. 

Thanks!


----------



## BadMusicVideos

Can anyone recommend a pair of $20 or less earbuds available within the US? VE monks are out of stock on amazon and such, and I'm looking for a decent pair. Amazon has Edifier P190, Sennheiser MX365 in stock, but I'm wondering if there's anything else available without ordering from China. Ordering from China where I live takes forever and I'd like to pick up something fairly soon. Any suggestions would be helpful.


----------



## baskingshark

BadMusicVideos said:


> Can anyone recommend a pair of $20 or less earbuds available within the US? VE monks are out of stock on amazon and such, and I'm looking for a decent pair. Amazon has Edifier P190, Sennheiser MX365 in stock, but I'm wondering if there's anything else available without ordering from China. Ordering from China where I live takes forever and I'd like to pick up something fairly soon. Any suggestions would be helpful.



Not sure if u can find these from Amazon, and whether they are sub $20 (prices below are Aliexpress prices, and Amazon generally ups prices for more peace of mind for returns/warranties):

1) *FAAEAL Datura Pro* - a midcentric bud. Has treble and subbass roll off, so not the most versatile in terms of tuning, but it is good for vocals if u are a vocal lover. Around $20ish USD.

2) *BK2*, neutralish and balanced set with good technicalities (and comes with detachable cables to boot at $21 USD). Non fatiguing with no harsh frequencies. Though a bit bass lite.

3)* RY4S 300 ohm* ($18ish USD) is pretty hard to drive, but it is also quite balanced, with wide soundstage and above average technicalities. The upper mids can occasionally be harsh, but otherwise it is slightly cheaper than BK2. There's some other cheaper RY4S models below $10 USD such as the *RY4S 32 ohm* and *RY4S 32 ohm Plus*, the latter having added bass boost.

*NiceHCK B40* and *NiceHCK ME80* are also very good at the $10ish USD range, and there are a lot of cheap bang for buck gems u can read reviews about like *Vidos, TY HIz 32ohm, Monk/Monk +, Fengru MX985, Yincrow X6, Yincrow RW9, * and perhaps some cheaper sub $30* Toneking, FAAEAL and Moondrop buds.*

Good luck with your search!


----------



## RikudouGoku

Here is my review on the Moondrop Shiroyuki: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/moondrop-shiroyuki.24393/reviews#item-review-23759

Grade D.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Do you guys think it is correct to have earbuds that don't have a replaceable cable as a con? Personally if it were an iem over 50 usd without replaceable cable it would be quite the big con for me even if the build and sound is outstanding...


----------



## IEMusic

RikudouGoku said:


> Do you guys think it is correct to have earbuds that don't have a replaceable cable as a con? Personally if it were an iem over 50 usd without replaceable cable it would be quite the big con for me even if the build and sound is outstanding...


I think it‘s reasonable for an ear bud to have a fixed cable, unless it’s expensive, $50 or more.


----------



## wskl

RikudouGoku said:


> Do you guys think it is correct to have earbuds that don't have a replaceable cable as a con? Personally if it were an iem over 50 usd without replaceable cable it would be quite the big con for me even if the build and sound is outstanding...



I actually prefer fixed cable earbuds, I find them to be lighter, more comfortable and fit my ears better, perhaps I take care of them well but all of my earbuds since I started this hobby about 4 years ago are still in working condition.  However I totally understand why people would want detachable cables, they can be easily replaced if they break and also good if someone likes to do some cable rolling.  For the detachable earbuds that I own, they have some negatives for one reason or another, e.g.

**** PT15 is a bit heavy
Rose Masya just keep falling out of my ears, can be solved by using ear hooks but I don't like to use them
Smabat ST-10 is a bit bulky
RY4S Plus just do not fit my ears well at all due to the modded design of the MX500 shell, when MMCX cable is attached the stem becomes very long and it just hangs in my ear instead of being fitted in the ear, ideally the stem should just be above the ear lobe but with the RY4S it is practically at a vertical position and moves (swings) around a lot.
Of course, these are my own personal experiences and I know from reading other comments that other people enjoy using detachable earbuds.


----------



## assassin10000

Ron Good said:


> Thank you so much for your detailed answer. Very helpful. I mostly listen--low to mid volume--to C-pop, chill/wave, dream/folk pop, lo-fi, post-rock, IDM, the less aggressive end of shoe gaze, smooth jazz, soul and R&B. Sometimes classic rock. The heaviest is maybe like Prodigy or Pantera, but that's very much like spice on my main courses



Of the 3 I listed... I'd probably choose the K's LB. It's warm, smooth but still detailed. Didn't have the muffled or veiled sound you can get with some warmer tunings.

There may be other good warm buds with the larger 15.4mm drivers but I don't know them. I have smaller ears and typically go for 14.8mm drivers whenever possible. 




RikudouGoku said:


> Do you guys think it is correct to have earbuds that don't have a replaceable cable as a con? Personally if it were an iem over 50 usd without replaceable cable it would be quite the big con for me even if the build and sound is outstanding...



Yes and no. The majority of TOTL buds are not detachable cable. It's a use and preference thing.

I now go with MMCX buds only. But that's only because my phone has no 3.5mm jack. I do have a usb-c to 3.5mm adapter but I'm not a fan of cables after the convenience of no wires. I use my BT20S for buds the majority of the time.


----------



## mochill

RikudouGoku said:


> Do you guys think it is correct to have earbuds that don't have a replaceable cable as a con? Personally if it were an iem over 50 usd without replaceable cable it would be quite the big con for me even if the build and sound is outstanding...


Not a con


----------



## Saoshyant

Personally, in retrospect looking at various high end earbuds I've owned, the lack of detachable cable in most cases has not been a con.  Detachable only would have limited the options for some truly amazing earbuds like the CampFreds for example.  The cable failures I've had all ended up being my fault due to accident, and earbuds that have been properly cared for have had no issues.  The example I can think of is one of the cables for my Mojito due to an accidental drop of a dap it was attached to ended up causing damage.  Now, an earbud like the Red Demun with it's stiff cable has kept it from being listenable for me due to inability to get a proper fit, and the option to change it would have allowed me to get actual use out of it, but worst comes to worst modding is an option.


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> Do you guys think it is correct to have earbuds that don't have a replaceable cable as a con? Personally if it were an iem over 50 usd without replaceable cable it would be quite the big con for me even if the build and sound is outstanding...



Well I respect the views of everyone regarding the non detachable cables in gear > $50 USD, but for me, it is not only an issue of longevity (as I had a few midfi sets die on me at the cable). 

Some of us wanna use balanced connections, some of us prefer different cables for haptic/ergonomic/feel, some of us like different cables to change the sound signature (if u ain't a cable skeptic).


----------



## jenkinsontherun

Good evening all,

Probably no one is asking for this, but I'm gonna post it anyways.

As you may or may not know, the Edifier H180 is a beast of an earbud, and I mean that wholeheartedly.  I just spent the entire day listening to them while working, and don't want to part with them for bed - they are that good.

They have the technicalities and the overall signature is slightly dry but very coherent.  The only critique I have is that the bass quality is not as tight/articulate as I would like it (though quantity is near-perfect), and the existence of a treble peak in the 7.5k range.

Through experimental listening, I have identified where the treble peak is, and therefore have "solved" the second issue I have with the earbuds.

How to do this?  You will need to learn to use a parametric eq.  I know, this is not convenient for those who like earbuds for portable use, but even as a desktop setup, it rivals some of my headphones in tone with its wide and deep staging.

Okay, so on with the fix:  What you will need to do is put one band around the 7600-7650 range to get rid of the treble peak.  I find the settings in the image are quite appropriate for me, with a very slight intolerance to sibilance.  As a note, most 10-band eq's on mobile devices have an 8k band, which is pretty damned close to reaching the effects of a parametric eq, but the last 20% of the improvement should be used with parametric, not fixed band.




With this eq fix, you are looking at an earbud I would place solidly at $100.  It's current price on Amazon is around $10, and even cheaper on aliexpress.

If you don't mind using eq, you really can't go wrong with the H180.  At the very least, give it a try!


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> Well I respect the views of everyone regarding the non detachable cables in gear > $50 USD, but for me, it is not only an issue of longevity (as I had a few midfi sets die on me at the cable).
> 
> Some of us wanna use balanced connections, some of us prefer different cables for haptic/ergonomic/feel, some of us like different cables to change the sound signature (if u ain't a cable skeptic).


Yeah, balanced cables should be even more important for earbuds than iems since they seem to require more power.


----------



## chinerino

hehehe I also did a review on the moondrop shiroyuki at my website! take a look! https://www.perrivanaudio.com/post/moondrop-shiro-yuki-review


----------



## BadMusicVideos

jenkinsontherun said:


> If you don't mind using eq, you really can't go wrong with the H180.  At the very least, give it a try!



I was actually wondering about them because they are readily available on amazon. Have you had a chance to try the H190? I'm wondering if they are upgraded in any way from the H180. I might pick up a pair since there is no way I'm ordering from Aliexpress right now, I need my earbuds pronto! ;p


----------



## Ron Good

assassin10000 said:


> Didn't have the muffled or veiled sound you can get with some warmer tunings



Again, thank you. That's my only issue with the JVC, which is always my sleeping bud, and I like it for that because it's very nice at low volumes--but it sounds too "thick." I'm not sure muffled is the term I'd use, but it's close enough


----------



## jenkinsontherun

BadMusicVideos said:


> I was actually wondering about them because they are readily available on amazon. Have you had a chance to try the H190? I'm wondering if they are upgraded in any way from the H180. I might pick up a pair since there is no way I'm ordering from Aliexpress right now, I need my earbuds pronto! ;p


That's very interesting, I didn't know that there was an H190.  However, I am content with H180 for now, because any change to the tuning (other than an improvement) would ruin the signature for me.  But if there's a good price with Prime shipment, I will consider it .


----------



## bhima

baskingshark said:


> Well I respect the views of everyone regarding the non detachable cables in gear > $50 USD, but for me, it is not only an issue of longevity (as I had a few midfi sets die on me at the cable).
> 
> Some of us wanna use balanced connections, some of us prefer different cables for haptic/ergonomic/feel, some of us like different cables to change the sound signature (if u ain't a cable skeptic).



AND some of us want to be able to use a bluetooth cable to make them wireless. The list of benefits for detachable cables is much longer than the only pro to non-detachable (being lighter). My Shozy BKs are starting to short out in one of the ears--I had a buddy engineer fix it, but its not perfect. Would be nice if I could just replace an MMCX cable instead of trash $160.


----------



## bhima

IEMusic said:


> I’m not an earbud aficionado, b/c I’ve never been able to get a good fit.  So, I’ll follow this thread to learn!


If you are interested, start first with a cheap PK shell earbud from aliexpress and make sure you put thin foams on it. Other than my kids, I haven't had one person that did not like the fit of the PK shells. They are the most comfortable of the shells. The one disadvantage of PK shells is that there are less variety of earbuds on offer with this specific shell.


----------



## waynes world

Alex.Grimm said:


> I did not have a standard version, because I read the review and they talked about the lack of lows (bass). I was glad when I heard that there will be a version where the bass is present.



I really like my RW9's. The  RW-1000 Bass Pro Version is going on my "how will I resist" list!



IEMusic said:


> Would you consider these earbuds?  Growing up, these type of phones were what I always used and really liked.  They had a lot of bass (“Megabass”).  I was upset when they essentially went away, until IEMs came about.



I had similar Sony's. I actually still have them! I'll have to dig them out. I took them for granted at the time, but they were quite good.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

waynes world said:


> I really like my RW9's. The RW-1000 Bass Pro Version is going on my "how will I resist" list!



The RW-1000 Bass Pro sounds more neutral and has a little bit less bass than RW9


----------



## RikudouGoku

Any good buds to pick up during the sale?


----------



## Carrow

Woah, woah, what the heck happened to the round-up thread?

o7


----------



## davjac84

BadMusicVideos said:


> I was actually wondering about them because they are readily available on amazon. Have you had a chance to try the H190? I'm wondering if they are upgraded in any way from the H180. I might pick up a pair since there is no way I'm ordering from Aliexpress right now, I need my earbuds pronto! ;p



I have both. I prefer H180 which are a great earbud. Not 100$ great as some claim tho. My Toneking TO600 (around 100$ i guess) are much better. It feels a little strange to say they are much better..., because H180 are indeed  great 😊
You can't go wrong with H180 if you prefer warmer sound, I bet most people like the comfort of them too. And they are available with mic if you would prefer that.


----------



## mbwilson111

I am relieved to see this thread up and running again.  This has been the thread that I check first for for a long time now.   Also it was a  favorite of  my husband @HungryPanda who, as many of you know, was taken by Covid 19 on April 15th after we had both been fighting it for 10 days.  I hope that over the coming years people will still find and appreciate his comments in here... and maybe mine too... and quite a few photos.  Please never forget him.  He gave a lot of himself here.

This is one of the best threads on headfi and has a long history.


----------



## siderak

Hurray for the Roundup!


----------



## baskingshark

Thanks for reopening this thread! I'll ask the mods to close the temporary earbuds thread that we opened the past week to discuss earbuds stuff while awaiting the status of this one.

Definitely this thread has been a great wealth of knowledge for earbuds and also held much interactions and great advise from hungrypanda. Glad to see it reopened and that nothing was deleted!

Looking forward to more advise here on buds from everyone!


----------



## baskingshark

Hi friends it seems the original earbuds thread has finally been unlocked.

I will ask the mods to close this temporary thread and we can all go back to the original thread to discuss earbuds related stuff. But thanks to everyone who contributed info over the past week here while we were waiting for the status of the original earbuds thread to be fixed. Thanks @WoodyLuvr for your great info and earbuds experience especially!

There's lots more archives of good info and photos over the years for earbuds in the old thread, and that place also held great memories of our esteemed hungrypanda.

Cya guys over there and look forward to more earbuds recs there!


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> I am relieved to see this thread up and running again.  This has been the thread that I check first for for a long time now.   Also it was a  favorite of  my husband @HungryPanda who, as many of you know, was taken by Covid 19 on April 15th after we had both been fighting it for 10 days.  I hope that over the coming years people will still find and appreciate his comments in here... and maybe mine too... and quite a few photos.  Please never forget him.  He gave a lot of himself here.
> 
> This is one of the best threads on headfi and has a long history.



+100. Thanks @ClieOS!



baskingshark said:


> Thanks for reopening this thread! I'll ask the mods to close the temporary earbuds thread that we opened the past week to discuss earbuds stuff while awaiting the status of this one.
> 
> Definitely this thread has been a great wealth of knowledge for earbuds and also held much interactions and great advise from hungrypanda. Glad to see it reopened and that nothing was deleted!
> 
> Looking forward to more advise here on buds from everyone!



You've done a great job baskingshark. Thanks.


----------



## waynes world

Thanks again baskingshark (too bad we can't merge the threads).

Anyway, here's a link to the Earbuds Round-Up thread for continuing discussions:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/

Cheers.


----------



## siderak

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for reopening this thread! I'll ask the mods to close the temporary earbuds thread that we opened the past week to discuss earbuds stuff while awaiting the status of this one.
> 
> Definitely this thread has been a great wealth of knowledge for earbuds and also held much interactions and great advise from hungrypanda. Glad to see it reopened and that nothing was deleted!
> 
> Looking forward to more advise here on buds from everyone!


Can you transfer the info from the new thread? I think the earbuds info and timeline is spectacular.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Now that we are a few weeks away from the big sale, what are you guys looking forward to get? Any good recommendations?


----------



## baskingshark

siderak said:


> Can you transfer the info from the new thread? I think the earbuds info and timeline is spectacular.



I have just pmed the mods to close the new thread and also enquired if they could possibly migrate some relevant posts over, such as those earbuds questions/advise posts done by the community and some great advise from @WoodyLuvr .

If the migration can't be done we'll try to cut and paste the relevant stuff over i guess.


----------



## davjac84

Danneq said:


> Well, perhaps you are these days. I used to be VERY active from around 2010-2018. After that stupid decision to put import taxes on everything from outside the EU I haven't bought many earbuds. My last pair was SWD2+ that I bought from Massdrop in the autumn of 2018. I feel I cannot contribute anything here if I don't buy anything new...
> 
> There used to be another Swede here, from Göteborg, but he stopped visiting this forum a while ago, I think...


I'm a Swede, I live near Göteborg 😊
I've read this forum on and off for many years, but seldom post anything 😝


----------



## 1clearhead

I just ordered the MEMT's latest earbuds, the *MEMT R7* earbud!

They've been getting rave reviews here in China! So, I've got to check what's the rave all about! 








Link: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...sY54W&id=617864666332&ns=1&abbucket=18#detail

I'll keep everyone here up-to-date and see if they dethrone any of my current earbuds.

-Clear


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> I am relieved to see this thread up and running again.  This has been the thread that I check first for for a long time now.   Also it was a  favorite of  my husband @HungryPanda who, as many of you know, was taken by Covid 19 on April 15th after we had both been fighting it for 10 days.  I hope that over the coming years people will still find and appreciate his comments in here... and maybe mine too... and quite a few photos.  Please never forget him.  He gave a lot of himself here.
> 
> This is one of the best threads on headfi and has a long history.



Tom will always be a hero to me


----------



## Alex.Grimm

1clearhead said:


> I just ordered the MEMT's latest earbuds, the *MEMT R7* earbud!



Strange


Spoiler



https://primeaudio.org/review-memt-r7-beautiful-basshead-earphone/


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Shozy SG review


Spoiler



https://www.soundphilereview.com/reviews/shozy-sg-review-9115/


----------



## ClieOS

The thread has been re-opened in honour of Tom's memory. I won't however be posting in here anymore, so PM me if you need to ask me anything. Regard.


----------



## assassin10000

ClieOS said:


> The thread has been re-opened in honour of Tom's memory. I won't however be posting in here anymore, so PM me if you need to ask me anything. Regard.



Thanks for all the info and sharing of your thoughts and pics of your awesome collection of buds. I'm gonna miss your contributions and updates. Sad to see you go.


----------



## groucho69

ClieOS said:


> The thread has been re-opened in honour of Tom's memory. I won't however be posting in here anymore, so PM me if you need to ask me anything. Regard.



Greatly appreciated. You will be missed my friend.


----------



## Promenadeplatz

What's the reason for that @ClieOS ??


----------



## RuFrost (Jun 3, 2020)

Alex.Grimm said:


> Shozy SG review
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


My comment to the reviewer:


"Bro, it is painful to read...you must be very new to the earbud's world,as it very,very different from cans and iems. Consequently, requires some experience, very certain sources (daps,dac/amps...), different types of eartips (materials,brands,forms) and to know tricks of how to put different cases the best into the "earshell".

1) all cons that you describe is related to the thickest donuts (eartips) which is put above the head of earbuds. Shozy put them to BK (owned 6 of them) as well and it is the hugest mistake on their side.
The influence of donuts on the sound of earbuds: cut highs; decrease details,especially micro; add bass and its deepness+quantity; cut the widness of the scene; breaks positioning of the instrument in the space and makes separation worse; hides true potential of clarity and adds the mug to the soundwaves.

Pretty much all what you have experienced with SG is donuts' fault.

2) SG requires thinnest "full-surface" foams. Regular thick full foams does not work (they almost never work), as they decrease micro details and clarity. In contrast, thin full foams represent those parameters in its best!

3) SG need to be listened cable down AND need to be turned a little bit to the ear canal. So they should not sit parallel to the ear, but supposed to have certain angle in the "earshell".

4) there is around 4 kind of earbuds (like full-size cans): opened, closed, semi-opened and "chameleon" (can be both opened and closed).
Closed earbuds must be used with thick donuts foams, otherwise the sounstage, the scene is just corrupted, bass is not full, mids and high sounds off, too close and sharp (abnormallabs Dietris,TY-HZ F150-ts). Opened earbuds hate donuts, requires thin foams or can be used without foams at all (ZEN,monks,BK,SG,ST10). Semi-opened earbuds are something between - they need some experiments in order to find right one or combination of few (Smabat M1 Pro, K'Black Ling). Finally, there are exceptions which good with almost any earbuds (there are non-factory models or chi-fi; those usually hand-crafted and limited in quantity. I know two models as such Atmoshere and Eqvilibrium mk2 by Islam - earbud-genius from Russia. But even those still lean towards some side - usually opened).

5) sources are too unnatural or so-so with earbuds. So better to add some community-approved solutions like aune m1s, DTR1, Dx100, Shanling M2 and so on.

So my friend, please, do the tests again with different foams and can try even without them and trust me, you will receive completely different picture from the one you now have. It will be interesting to see what will it be. In this case additions to your review will be fruitful for all."


----------



## RobinFood

Oh no, I didn't realize this thread was closed, but I see I was one of the last posters before it closed. What happened to trigger the closure? I'm so sorry if I was responsible and I'm happy it is back up and running.


----------



## baskingshark

Tis a big pity @ClieOS to lose your great experience and earbuds knowledge. Do hope to see u back here one day! I definitely learnt a lot about buds from u.

Anyways, shout out to the mods, who have kindly assisted in migrating info from the interim earbuds thread of the last week over here, so all the great suggestions and advise from the community was seamlessly ported!

Glad this place is back and up running!


----------



## bhima

RuFrost said:


> My comment to the reviewer:
> 
> 
> "Bro, it is painful to read...you must be very new to the earbud's world,as it very,very different from cans and iems. Consequently, requires some experience, very certain sources (daps,dac/amps...), different types of eartips (materials,brands,forms) and to know tricks of how to put different cases the best into the "earshell".
> ...



I can confirm with my Shozy BKs: Donuts were TERRIBLE. Bloated bass, narrowed soundstage, etc. Thick foams veiled the sound. The thin foams I got from Aliexpress turned them into the earbuds their price demanded them to be:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32790634729.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.39804c4d3QVla4

Under $1 for 100 of the best foams. All my earbuds sound better with these.


----------



## Slater

bhima said:


> I can confirm with my Shozy BKs: Donuts were TERRIBLE. Bloated bass, narrowed soundstage, etc. Thick foams veiled the sound. The thin foams I got from Aliexpress turned them into the earbuds their price demanded them to be:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32790634729.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.39804c4d3QVla4
> 
> Under $1 for 100 of the best foams. All my earbuds sound better with these.



What about these?


https://a.aliexpress.com/_dZ2jNvh


----------



## bhima

Slater said:


> What about these?
> 
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_dZ2jNvh



I am unsure of those are the standard foams or the thin ones. I know the ones I linked are the thin ones as they were recommended by the vets of this thread.


----------



## Danneq

davjac84 said:


> I'm a Swede, I live near Göteborg 😊
> I've read this forum on and off for many years, but seldom post anything 😝



You've been registered here longer than I have!

No, there's another guy. I know his real name since he bought a pair of earbuds from me but I don't remember what his Head fi name was.


----------



## j4100

Can't believe I was just refreshing this page on my phone and wondering why no one was posting


----------



## RikudouGoku

bhima said:


> I can confirm with my Shozy BKs: Donuts were TERRIBLE. Bloated bass, narrowed soundstage, etc. Thick foams veiled the sound. The thin foams I got from Aliexpress turned them into the earbuds their price demanded them to be:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32790634729.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.39804c4d3QVla4
> 
> Under $1 for 100 of the best foams. All my earbuds sound better with these.


Here is when the local carrier here in sweden is gonna charge me like 8 usd extra for those....


----------



## Carrow

So these took a hella long time to arrive considering I bought them off someone in Greece but they're finally here! Have heard some great things about 'em, anyone else have a pair of these Fontopia E828s?


----------



## siderak

Just received some nicehck b40’s. 
Fairly balanced, neutral sound with unexpectedly decent resolution and soundstage.
Pleasantly surprised!


----------



## baskingshark

siderak said:


> Just received some nicehck b40’s.
> Fairly balanced, neutral sound with unexpectedly decent resolution and soundstage.
> Pleasantly surprised!



It was my first ever bud that I bought, was my gateway into this buds rabbithole. I am still amazed with the price to performance ratio it provides. For the price of a Starbucks coffee to boot! 
Unfortunately, it doesn't fit me that great, if not I would have used it more.


----------



## siderak

baskingshark said:


> It was my first ever bud that I bought, was my gateway into this buds rabbithole. I am still amazed with the price to performance ratio it provides. For the price of a Starbucks coffee to boot!
> Unfortunately, it doesn't fit me that great, if not I would have used it more.


Amen!


----------



## ballog (Jun 5, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> The thread has been re-opened in honour of Tom's memory. I won't however be posting in here anymore, so PM me if you need to ask me anything. Regard.


@ClieOS its so sad - can't imagine this thread without you . You and @HungryPanda will always remain our earbuds knights in shining armour .


----------



## darmanastartes

With some assistance from @Nimweth I was able to get a pair of the Smabat ST-10S for review. First impressions are very positive.


----------



## Nimweth

darmanastartes said:


> With some assistance from @Nimweth I was able to get a pair of the Smabat ST-10S for review. First impressions are very positive.


Looking forward to your review!


----------



## baskingshark

darmanastartes said:


> With some assistance from @Nimweth I was able to get a pair of the Smabat ST-10S for review. First impressions are very positive.



Did u get the black gold or black silver one? (Apparently there's a newer revised tuning for the black silver one too).

Look forward to your reviews, and possibly any comparisons with the original SMABAT ST10!


----------



## darmanastartes

baskingshark said:


> Did u get the black gold or black silver one? (Apparently there's a newer revised tuning for the black silver one too).
> 
> Look forward to your reviews, and possibly any comparisons with the original SMABAT ST10!


Black Silver, and I will definitely compare with the OG ST-10.


----------



## 1clearhead

My update: 
Here are some final comparisons between four(4) earbuds I recently purchased; the *Snow-Lotus 1.0*, *Snow-Lotus plus Blue*, *Yincrow X6*, and my latest *MEMT R7 earbud*. 
Okay, after spending some time during the weekend with the R7 earbuds, I have several comments on the outcome and how they fare with four others from my small collection. They have a smooth and wide soundstage and reminds me of the Snow-Lotus 1.0, but with a more pronounced mid-bass hump and thicker lower MID's providing an interesting texture in this area with good imaging and separation. So, it's a toss-up between the Snow-Lotus 1.0 and the R7 earbuds if you ask me. But, then here comes the Yincrow X6 with a more forward and pronounced midrange and good execution of lower bass. The Snow-Lotus plus Blue provides surprisingly good treble and clarity, but for what it's worth, the earbuds I have by far have its advantages and disadvantages.

Here's what I personally think is best sounding to my ears by sounding mostly natural, coherent, and fun from 1) to 4)...

1) Yincrow X6
PROS: Excellent balance and clarity throughout most of the range
CONS: Lower MID vocals can get shouty at times according to the genre selected

2) Snow-Lotus 1.0 (original)
PROS: Excellent soundstage and clarity
CONS: Lower sub-bass can sound slightly lite according to genre selected

3) Snow-Lotus 1.0 plus Blue (Commemorative Edition)
PROS: Excellent soundstage and clarity
CONS: Treble and overall clarity can sound a little harsh according to genre selected

4) MEMET R7 earbuds
PROS: Nice mid-bass and lower midrange texture with good imaging and separation
CONS: Lower sub-bass can sound slightly lite according to genre selected

Other:
Best overall "built quality with good sound versus price"...
1) MEMT R7 earbuds
2) Snow-Lotus 1.0 plus Blue (Commemorative Edition)
3) Snow-Lotus 1.0
4) Yincrow X6

Best overall "package with storage case"...
1) MEMT R7 earbuds
2) Snow-Lotus 1.0 plus Blue (Commemorative Edition)
3) Snow-Lotus 1.0
4) Yincrow X6

Best overall "solid cable and plug"...
1) Snow-Lotus 1.0 plus Blue (Commemorative Edition)
2) MEMT R7 earbuds
3) Snow-Lotus 1.0
4) Yincrow X6

Hope my comparisons above can help anyone making their next purchase...

-Clear


----------



## baskingshark

1clearhead said:


> My update:
> Here are some final comparisons between four(4) earbuds I recently purchased; the *Snow-Lotus 1.0*, *Snow-Lotus plus Blue*, *Yincrow X6*, and my latest *MEMT R7 earbud*.
> Okay, after spending some time during the weekend with the R7 earbuds, I have several comments on the outcome and how they fare with four others from my small collection. They have a smooth and wide soundstage and reminds me of the Snow-Lotus 1.0, but with a more pronounced mid-bass hump and thicker lower MID's providing an interesting texture in this area with good imaging and separation. So, it's a toss-up between the Snow-Lotus 1.0 and the R7 earbuds if you ask me. But, then here comes the Yincrow X6 with a more forward and pronounced midrange and good execution of lower bass. The Snow-Lotus plus Blue provides surprisingly good treble and clarity, but for what it's worth, the earbuds I have by far have its advantages and disadvantages.
> 
> ...



Nice comparisons, thanks! So is the snow lotus 1.0+ version just more bright than the regular 1.0 snow lotus?

I wonder if anybody can compare snow lotus 2.0 with the 1.0 and 1.0+ versions (if u have heard the 2.0 version). Thanks in advance!


----------



## 1clearhead

baskingshark said:


> Nice comparisons, thanks! So is the snow lotus 1.0+ version just more bright than the regular 1.0 snow lotus?
> 
> I wonder if anybody can compare snow lotus 2.0 with the 1.0 and 1.0+ versions (if u have heard the 2.0 version). Thanks in advance!


Yes, it's just brighter than the original 1.0. 

About the 2.0: I don't have a pair yet.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 10, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Smabat ST-10S Black-Gold sounding fine but the larger diameter is physically hurting the entrance area of my rather small ear canals
> Hoping, that I'll adapt to it and the ache goes away with a few more days of wearing them. Double full foams muddied the sound... playing around with double donuts at the moment.


Thankfully the ache went completely away after the third day or so. Very interesting sound. At first it sounds "tinny" almost "metallic" like. But not in a harsh or sibilant manner. Once my ears adjusted and grew accustomed to it I realized it was another level (different presentation) of clarity I was unaccustomed to. These do appear to scale very well with a HeadAMP. The cable is supple and soft; perfectly weighted with absolutely no micro-phonics to speak of. Very pleased with the *Smabat ST-10S "Black-Gold" (150Ω); 3.5SE Unbalanced* earbuds.

Here they are being driven by a *XDuoo XD-05 Plus Black Edition + 05BL Pro* (DAC HeadAMP w/ Bluetooth Module)







Spoiler: Additional Pic


----------



## baskingshark

WoodyLuvr said:


> Thankfully the ache went completely away after the third day or so. Very interesting sound. At first it sounds "tinny" almost "metallic" like. But not in a harsh or sibilant manner. Once my ears adjusted and grew accustomed to it I realized it was another level (different presentation) of clarity I was unaccustomed to. These do appear to scale very well with a HeadAMP. The cable is supple and soft; perfectly weighted with absolutely no micro-phonics to speak of.
> 
> Very pleased with the Smabat ST-10S Black-Gold 150 Ohms earbuds. Here they are being driven by a *XDuoo XD-05 Plus Black Edition + 05BL Pro* (DAC HeadAMP w/ Bluetooth Module)
> 
> ...



I'm already extremely happy with the regular SMABAT ST10 (non S version), so I think it must be amazing to have the black gold version of the ST10S in your ears!


----------



## DAndrew (Jun 8, 2020)

Hey yall,

This is going to be a critique, I hope this is allowed as I want to shed some light on how these "artisanal" earbuds are made.

So I recently got a pair of Moonbuds Crescent from someone from here. ( will keep it anonymous unless he wants to be known ).
Pair was damaged and wasnt playing sounds on one driver. Didnt take long to see what the problem was haha
 

I went on to try and fix this but I have to say , I was really disappointed in the build quality and material quality.

You can see in the pictures that they didnt really stand the test of time and that anti-repair methods were used when building these...such as using heat gun glue to just glue the cables in the Y splitter and the audio jack. The Y splitter is not even a splitter its just an aluminum tube filled with glue...



The cable was stiff and did not seem of a high quality. I think you can paint a picture.

Moving on to the drivers it seems they are generic cheap chinese drivers, and the "tunning" consists of an extra felt applied to the felt they came with.



The audio jack isnt better, flimsy and already bent, seems to be one of the cheap variant of clones.



Sorry if I come off as too tough but iirc the Crescent was pretty pricey ( too price for this quality, but each his own I guess ).

Overall I would never recommend this builder.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that the drivers were really subpar too, I've heard better drivers from aliexpress that cost 3$...


----------



## RikudouGoku

DAndrew said:


> Hey yall,
> 
> This is going to be a critique, I hope this is allowed as I want to shed some light on how these "artisanal" earbuds are made.
> 
> ...


lol thought that you meant MOONDROP crescent.


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> lol thought that you meant MOONDROP crescent.



Moonbuds is quite a boutique earbuds brand, yeah I initially mistook them for Moondrop! But haven't tried any of the Moondbuds yet, hope to do so one day though.


----------



## bhima

DAndrew said:


> Hey yall,
> 
> This is going to be a critique, I hope this is allowed as I want to shed some light on how these "artisanal" earbuds are made.
> 
> ...



Man, that is disappointing. I had wanted to grab some Moonbuds at one point but I am sticking to my guns on MMCX or bust. This is a pretty good example of a problem that MMCX could fix--though it would not fix the poor sound quality. Honestly, after having purchased a pair of Willsounds that sounded so bad I literally threw them in the trash, I'm pretty much done on playing Russian Roulette with my wallet.


----------



## bigtim

bhima said:


> Man, that is disappointing. I had wanted to grab some Moonbuds at one point but I am sticking to my guns on MMCX or bust. This is a pretty good example of a problem that MMCX could fix--though it would not fix the poor sound quality. Honestly, after having purchased a pair of Willsounds that sounded so bad I literally threw them in the trash, I'm pretty much done on playing Russian Roulette with my wallet.



It's a shame you had a bad experience with Willsound. The Willsound Mk2's are probably my favourite all-round earbud. I have earbuds Willsound / Blurbud / ME-Q and it's a trade off - I could probably do something similar for cheaper with the right materials and time to practice but I don't have the time. In terms of overall SQ the artisinal products may not be that much better than a good pair from Aliexpress or similar but then there's the desirability factor of having something more unique.


----------



## bhima

bigtim said:


> It's a shame you had a bad experience with Willsound. The Willsound Mk2's are probably my favourite all-round earbud. I have earbuds Willsound / Blurbud / ME-Q and it's a trade off - I could probably do something similar for cheaper with the right materials and time to practice but I don't have the time. In terms of overall SQ the artisinal products may not be that much better than a good pair from Aliexpress or similar but then there's the desirability factor of having something more unique.


I can't remember which Willsounds I bought but they were well recommended (PK shell, cable was blue--$40). They looked nice, but they sounded like they were tuned underwater. The $8 rando-PK buds I got off Aliexpress where much better. Honestly would have been mostly happy with them if they just sounded as good as those cheapo ones I got from Ali because they looked nice. But Alas.


----------



## DAndrew

bhima said:


> Man, that is disappointing. I had wanted to grab some Moonbuds at one point but I am sticking to my guns on MMCX or bust. This is a pretty good example of a problem that MMCX could fix--though it would not fix the poor sound quality. Honestly, after having purchased a pair of Willsounds that sounded so bad I literally threw them in the trash, I'm pretty much done on playing Russian Roulette with my wallet.



I wouldnt say you need to only MMCX as the only MMCX earbuds I have ( toneking to400s ) had one driver die before the cable. If its bad quality its bad quality. 

For example looking at this review https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/moonbuds-cresent.23215/reviews , the Moonbuds costed 100$ and "If you want a great musical earbud for a reasonable money, then the Moonbuds Crescent is for you.". Reasonable money? What a joke, my tuned up and recabled vido sounds better than them for 12$.

Only "boutique" store I would buy from is Cypherus Audio and even there I am not fully satisfied with the quality of the cable, at least he supposedly makes the drivers himself but I cannot test that as he uses a very strong glue and you will destroy the driver in the process.


----------



## cenizas

Just wanted to share my impressions of the ST-10s black golds. Really impressive staging and bass response. As others have pointed out about all the ST-10 variants the bass extension is phenomenal. Though there is a slight bit of bass bloom, overall bass resolution is still very good. Resolution through the mids is fantastic, but there is a hump somewhere the skews timbre a bit and does make some instruments sound unnatural, but for the most part I don't consider it a major issue. Treble is my favourite part about this earbud smooth in presentation while still retaining good shimmer and resolution. Respectable extension as well.

All in all, aside from the slight timbral issues, the black golds are extremely technically competent and are an impressive listen. Would definitely recommend giving them a listen if you have the opportunity.


----------



## axhng

Just arrived! My 2nd pair of earbuds after the Vido which I bought last year just for fun because it was so cheap, but ended up actually using it frequently at home. Saw this being mentioned in another thread before it was merged here and the design is right up my alley. Read some reviews and took the plunge. Liking it so far. Sound signature is more to my taste compared to the warmer sounding Vidos.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

axhng said:


> Just arrived! My 2nd pair of earbuds after the Vido which I bought last year just for fun because it was so cheap, but ended up actually using it frequently at home. Saw this being mentioned in another thread before it was merged here and the design is right up my alley. Read some reviews and took the plunge. Liking it so far. Sound signature is more to my taste compared to the warmer sounding Vidos.


Enjoy, these earbuds were promptly swiped from me not once but twice by my wife and then daughter upon arrival!


----------



## Kamen555

Got these yesterday, d Faaeal Datura Pro. Really satisfied with d sound n build. Great for my musical tastes, rock n Funk mainly.


----------



## Promenadeplatz

Kamen555 said:


> Got these yesterday, d Faaeal Datura Pro. Really satisfied with d sound n build. Great for my musical tastes, rock n Funk mainly.


Good cable, nice build, but to me they are simply to thick and don't remain inside the ears. It's a pity.


----------



## Kamen555 (Jun 11, 2020)

Ur right, they're kind of thick, so when out n about I use a repurposed cheap sporty bud earhooks... 😅. But I have no problem with it when listening at home...


----------



## Sam L

Kamen555 said:


> Ur right, they're kind of thick, so when out n about I use a repurposed cheap sporty bud earhooks... 😅. But I have no problem with it when listening at home...


How long did they take to ship?


----------



## prionsarebad

OK....so i am totally new to earbuds. After asking for some advice recently i thought i would test the earbud water, and the FAAEAL Iris 2.0 arrived today.

For $6 I am genuinely, and i mean genuinely, shocked as to how good they sound.....and not only that but i liked the whole pop-in-ear utility while still being to hear ambient sounds.....So i'm now wondering whether i will prefer proper earbuds to proper iems??? Hmmmmm.

To this end i asked around again for some new budget ones to get in the sale and am looking at FAAEAL snow lotus 1.0+ 64ohm commemorative edition. RY4S also possibility.

But now i am thinking whether i should stop messing around with, albeit very good, entry models and just jump to mid-teir.....something along the lines of the Smabat st-10s black/gold version?

So, any advice please from those who have travelled this earbud scaling ladder. Thanks!


----------



## RikudouGoku

prionsarebad said:


> OK....so i am totally new to earbuds. After asking for some advice recently i thought i would test the earbud water, and the FAAEAL Iris 2.0 arrived today.
> 
> For $6 I am genuinely, and i mean genuinely, shocked as to how good they sound.....and not only that but i liked the whole pop-in-ear utility while still being to hear ambient sounds.....So i'm now wondering whether i will prefer proper earbuds to proper iems??? Hmmmmm.
> 
> ...


Welcome aboard


----------



## prionsarebad (Jun 11, 2020)

RikudouGoku said:


> Welcome aboard


I quickly cancelled my bargain ER3SE order ($99) from amazon.com
i figured money was going to be required for this new ear bud money-hole 

The Azla Azel was already shipped, but then i bought it for the tips anyhow!


----------



## RikudouGoku

prionsarebad said:


> OK....so i am totally new to earbuds. After asking for some advice recently i thought i would test the earbud water, and the FAAEAL Iris 2.0 arrived today.
> 
> For $6 I am genuinely, and i mean genuinely, shocked as to how good they sound.....and not only that but i liked the whole pop-in-ear utility while still being to hear ambient sounds.....So i'm now wondering whether i will prefer proper earbuds to proper iems??? Hmmmmm.
> 
> ...


If you want to step up to mid/high tier buds, then the smart thing to do might be to try out the lower priced ones first. To find out which shell type fits you the best (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3207#post-15645387) and then after you know which type is best for you. Jump straight up to the buds around 100 usd. 

Or if you are dumb and impatient like me, just get one of the expensive ones like the DQSM Turandot on the upcoming aliexpress sale


----------



## baskingshark (Jun 11, 2020)

prionsarebad said:


> OK....so i am totally new to earbuds. After asking for some advice recently i thought i would test the earbud water, and the FAAEAL Iris 2.0 arrived today.
> 
> For $6 I am genuinely, and i mean genuinely, shocked as to how good they sound.....and not only that but i liked the whole pop-in-ear utility while still being to hear ambient sounds.....So i'm now wondering whether i will prefer proper earbuds to proper iems??? Hmmmmm.
> 
> ...



Welcome and better take care of your wallet! Earbuds are a totally different ball game from IEMs and headphones. Good news is that they seem to be relatively cheaper than IEMs and cans, though perhaps they suffer at isolation and possibly subbass. @RikudouGoku is right, better find something that fits you first before u dig deeper down the earbuds rabbithole.

If u are getting the RY4S, do note there are a few variants:
- regular RY4S 32 ohm
- RY4S 32 ohm plus ---> bassier version of the RY4S 32 ohm regular. So so for the price of $8ish USD, the midbass and subbass is quite good for a bud. Though the bass is boomy with midbass bleed (and ain't tight). Upper mids a bit hot.
- RY4S 300 ohm plus ---> much more balanced than the 32 ohm plus, less midbass quantity and subbass extension but the bass is tight and accurate with no midbass bleed. There may be a tinge of spiciness in the upper mids but it is more managable for me than the 32 ohm plus. Techincalities are quite good, though it needs amping as the impedance suggests.

I don't have the SMABAT ST10S black gold/black silver, but I have the regular SMABAT ST10 and it is my most used bud now. Great subbass extension for a bud and good technicalities. Fit may be a problem if u have smaller ears, but it can be worn cable up or down so do explore.

Something like the BK2 is also not bad for $21 USD, well balanced, above average technicalities, though soundstage is weak and bass is a bit light for me.


----------



## prionsarebad

RikudouGoku said:


> If you want to step up to mid/high tier buds, then the smart thing to do might be to try out the lower priced ones first. To find out which shell type fits you the best (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3207#post-15645387) and then after you know which type is best for you. Jump straight up to the buds around 100 usd.
> 
> Or if you are dumb and impatient like me, just get one of the expensive ones like the DQSM Turandot on the upcoming aliexpress sale


The Turandot looks certainly looks nice, but for that kind of money i would have to have detachable cable....i'd just be nervous all the time!


----------



## RikudouGoku

prionsarebad said:


> The Turandot looks certainly looks nice, but for that kind of money i would have to have detachable cable....i'd just be nervous all the time!


yeah, that would be great if it had replaceable cable. But for my use, non-detachable earbuds arent as bad as non-detachable iems because I only use my buds at home so the risk of damage is very low.


----------



## prionsarebad

baskingshark said:


> Welcome and better take care of your wallet! Earbuds are a totally different ball game from IEMs and headphones. Good news is that they seem to be relatively cheaper than IEMs and cans, though perhaps they suffer at isolation and possibly subbass. @RikudouGoku is right, better find something that fits you first before u dig deeper down the earbuds rabbithole.
> 
> If u are getting the RY4S, do note there are a few variants:
> - regular RY4S 32 ohm
> ...


Thanks.

Ok, learning your personal fit size makes perfect sense, of course.

 so the Iris 2.0 fit fine and they are 15.4mm.....if i get the snow lotus 1.0+ they are also 15.4mm so i don't learn anything new.

The smabat are also 15.4mm.....am i missing something here or do some earbuds come in larger sizes than 15.4mm? Thanks.


----------



## RikudouGoku

prionsarebad said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Ok, learning your personal fit size makes perfect sense, of course.
> 
> ...


check baskingsharks post here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3207#post-15645387

You can see the different shell types.

The Smabat is using type 4 shells and the Iris is using either 1 or 2 (im unsure which one) so they are completely different.


----------



## Kamen555

Sam L said:


> How long did they take to ship?



Bought it from a local seller so didn't need shipping. 😁


----------



## prionsarebad

RikudouGoku said:


> check baskingsharks post here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3207#post-15645387
> 
> You can see the different shell types.
> 
> The Smabat is using type 4 shells and the Iris is using either 1 or 2 (im unsure which one) so they are completely different.


Aha!

Thanks.

Ok, so i also had MS16 in my cart, which is bell-shaped type 3?

So i need to find a cheap but decent type 4 to mimic the Smabat fit.....any suggestions guys?


----------



## RikudouGoku

prionsarebad said:


> Aha!
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> ...


NiceHCK ME80 kinda looks similar, but im not sure.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jun 11, 2020)

RikudouGoku said:


> NiceHCK ME80 kinda looks similar, but im not sure.



Kinda close. There aren't any cheap matching bud that I can recall that are the same as the Smabat.

This is because they are thin in how they slot into the ear. If you can wear mx500 style shell, then there will be no issues. With how thin they are comfort wise they are between the mx500 and smaller PK shell.

@prionsarebad this means since the snow lotus fits (mx500 style) the Smabat should too


----------



## Sam L

prionsarebad said:


> I quickly cancelled my bargain ER3SE order ($99) from amazon.com
> i figured money was going to be required for this new ear bud money-hole
> 
> The Azla Azel was already shipped, but then i bought it for the tips anyhow!


Good call since you picked the warmest sounding ety, which means you will be even more predisposed towards loving earbuds!


----------



## robar (Jun 11, 2020)

Have you tried this? Looks interesting, one of my online friends said nice things about it (balanced with very good vocals and wide soundstage) At shoppee the listing claims that it uses Foster speakers. The shell looks like an unusual modification of the mx500 shell.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000926521703.html
https://shopee.com.my/🎁Ocean-Pearl-OP139-Foster-MX500-tuning-tri-band-balanced-Earphone-i.15414210.4615315373


----------



## baskingshark

robar said:


> Have you tried this? Looks interesting, one of my online friends said nice things about it (balanced with very good vocals and wide soundstage) At shoppee the listing claims that it uses Foster speakers. The shell looks like an unusual modification of the mx500 shell.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000926521703.html
> https://shopee.com.my/🎁Ocean-Pearl-OP139-Foster-MX500-tuning-tri-band-balanced-Earphone-i.15414210.4615315373



Thanks for the headsup, very interesting, haven't heard of this model.

I'm treble sensitive, but if the store graph is legit, it looks like the treble is missing!


----------



## assassin10000 (Jun 11, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for the headsup, very interesting, haven't heard of this model.
> 
> I'm treble sensitive, but if the store graph is legit, it looks like the treble is missing!



You're probably interpreting it wrong. Earbud graphs read drastically different than IEM graphs.

Graph courtesy of @cqtek


----------



## Sam L

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for the headsup, very interesting, haven't heard of this model.
> 
> I'm treble sensitive, but if the store graph is legit, it looks like the treble is missing!


To be honest, I'm beginning to think that curve in general is pretty common with earbuds but I've only graphed the snow lotus and Pk2. I think earbuds are also generally warmer compared to iems, particularly lately with everyone seeming to go after harman target.


----------



## Sam L (Jun 12, 2020)

prionsarebad said:


> OK....so i am totally new to earbuds. After asking for some advice recently i thought i would test the earbud water, and the FAAEAL Iris 2.0 arrived today.
> 
> For $6 I am genuinely, and i mean genuinely, shocked as to how good they sound.....and not only that but i liked the whole pop-in-ear utility while still being to hear ambient sounds.....So i'm now wondering whether i will prefer proper earbuds to proper iems??? Hmmmmm.
> 
> ...



I recently jumped on the earbud wagon and from what I can tell is that the biggest shock factor is found in the $6 to $16. After that, value diminishes rapidly. I started with the commemorative snow lotus then picked up a Pk2. The Pk2 isn't worth the money, given how good the snow lotus sounds. I still like the Pk2 and listen to them frequently. 

I'm in middle of an interminable wait for the Rambo II and smabat black/silver. 

Comparing iems to earbuds:
- great value / great sound
   IEMs = 30 to 50 dollars 
   Earbuds = $5 to $20

- near totl sound / strong value
   IEMs = $100 to $200
   Earbuds = $50 to $100

- totl / low price to value ratio
   IEMs = $1000+
   Earbuds = $300 to $400


----------



## prionsarebad

Sam L said:


> I recently jumped on the earbud wagon and from what I can tell is that the biggest shock factor is found in the $6 to $16. After that, value diminishes rapidly. I started with the commemorative snow lotus then picked up a Pk2. The Pk2 isn't worth the money, given how good the snow lotus sounds. I still like the Pk2 and listen to them frequently.
> 
> I'm in middle of an interminable wait for the Rambo II and smabat black/silver.
> 
> ...


I've literally spent the last 4 hours covering all earbuds forums....I'm tired, lol.

I can either jump straight to sambat st10s gold....or test further with entry stuff like the commemorative snow lotus and the me80....or I could also try mid tier sambat st10 45 ohm green.

I generally prefer warm, analogue type sound, for classical and choral, jazz, classic 70s/80s pop/rock, the usual.


----------



## assassin10000

prionsarebad said:


> I've literally spent the last 4 hours covering all earbuds forums....I'm tired, lol.
> 
> I can either jump straight to sambat st10s gold....or test further with entry stuff like the commemorative snow lotus and the me80....or I could also try mid tier sambat st10 45 ohm green.
> 
> I generally prefer warm, analogue type sound, for classical and choral, jazz, classic 70s/80s pop/rock, the usual.



The Smabat's are neutral (st-10) or near neutral (st-10s) and if you are looking for a warm signature not what I would recommend.


The best warm bud I've heard is the K's LB or LBB (little bell or little black bell).


----------



## waynes world

prionsarebad said:


> I've literally spent the last 4 hours covering all earbuds forums....I'm tired, lol.
> 
> I can either jump straight to sambat st10s gold....or test further with entry stuff like the commemorative snow lotus and the me80....or I could also try mid tier sambat st10 45 ohm green.
> 
> I generally prefer warm, analogue type sound, for classical and choral, jazz, classic 70s/80s pop/rock, the usual.



I was going to suggest the Sabia V7. I've been listening to them quite a bit over the last few months, and I think you'd like them as they satisfy my analogue and warm requirements as well. But I just checked, and sadly they are out  of stock:
http://www.rholupat.com/sabia-v7.html

Maybe they can be found elsewhere, but I'm not sure.

So, I won't recommend them to you lol. But, the Snow Lotus's and the ME80's are great as well, and I think you'll enjoy them, so you could just play around with them for a while before making your big Smabat purchase!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Sam L said:


> I recently jumped on the earbud wagon and from what I can tell is that the biggest shock factor is found in the $6 to $16. After that, value diminishes rapidly. I started with the commemorative snow lotus then picked up a Pk2. The Pk2 isn't worth the money, given how good the snow lotus sounds. I still like the Pk2 and listen to them frequently.
> 
> I'm in middle of an interminable wait for the Rambo II and smabat black/silver.
> 
> ...


I think some would even argue that the "Great Value/Great Sound" tier level begins much, much lower at around $8-9 for something like the exceptionally good NICEHCK B40 and that "Custom TOTL" tier level earbuds are now starting at around $150-$200.


----------



## kurtextrem

ClieOS said:


> Compared to ST-10, ST-10S is slightly less neutral in frequency distribution with a reduction in treble, giving a fainted sense of warmth and smooth. Soundstage has improved but mainly on layering / position - I see these more like trade-off rather than improvement, so basically they remain largely the same technically but tuned differently. So if you love the original ST-10, then perhaps ST-10S is not the direct upgrade you are looking for. But if you find ST-10 a bit too bright, then ST-10S might worth a try.
> 
> ST-10S Black Gold however is more like a fully opened up ST-10S, reminds me a lot of Sennheiser HD600. (*though I have not listened to HD600 for awhile, so takes it with a grain of salt). Between the two, I'll definitely recommend Black Gold first and I'll consider it as a proper upgrade of the original ST-10. It is harder to drive though, so you want to make sure you have a decent source first.


Do you think the st-10s black gold would be an upgrade over the Liebesleid?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 12, 2020)

kurtextrem said:


> Do you think the st-10s black gold would be an upgrade over the Liebesleid?


In what manner/way? For improved bass and impact yes but for improved mid-range (vocals only) and highs most likely not. It also would be dependent on music genre and typical listening level.


----------



## robar

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for the headsup, very interesting, haven't heard of this model.
> 
> I'm treble sensitive, but if the store graph is legit, it looks like the treble is missing!


Dont't mind the graphs, the are basically useless for the end user. Only useful for those who have a point of reference with the same measurement setup. These are basically measured in unnatural conditions (probably perfect seal which is even hard to achieve with iems) and then they even applied a compensation curve which is totally bonkers because its not designed for these stuff. (Also this is why the treble seems rolled off, its just the adjustment curve applied) But most manufacturers do this, so for them it's valueable, you can see similar graph with diy speakers as well. But don't try to read this as anything remotely similar to what it sounds like.


----------



## prionsarebad (Jun 12, 2020)

Last night I think I discovered the perfect scenario, for me personally, when I will use earbuds.

After the children had gone to bed and the house was quiet, I was chillaxing on the sofa, mentally winding down for an hour or two before going to sleep.....

Normally I would be listening to iems, but I often find their sound too intense for that time of night.......last night listening to the faaeal iris 2.0 for the first time with no ambient noise..... It was so relaxing....the perception of a large soundstage like you are wearing headphones (but without the uncomfortable weight or awkwardness of large headphones), and with a gentle balanced sound that wasn't too stimulating. I felt like I could lay there forever..... This was a new audiophile feeling for me. And once again I was feeling shocked by the sound quality of $6 earbuds.

So, once again, where do I go from here? I think I need to cater towards the situation I had last night....smooth or warm balanced sound profile.... nothing too peaky or intrusive. Some warming bass would have been nice.... Not sub-bass of course.

As I wrote last night but before I had proper time to digest that relaxing experience, currently looking at snow lotus commemorative and ME80 but I'm all ears to any suggestion for warm earbuds with better technicalities that will be good for jazz and classical and rock? Thanks.


----------



## cenizas

prionsarebad said:


> Last night I think I discovered the perfect scenario, for me personally, when I will use earbuds.
> 
> After the children had gone to bed and the house was quiet, I was chillaxing on the sofa, mentally winding down for an hour or two before going to sleep.....
> 
> ...


For the next step up, I would recommend the faaeal datura pro. I think it fits your signature preference and I feel both the sound quality and build quality are extremely solid for the price.


----------



## baskingshark

prionsarebad said:


> Last night I think I discovered the perfect scenario, for me personally, when I will use earbuds.
> 
> After the children had gone to bed and the house was quiet, I was chillaxing on the sofa, mentally winding down for an hour or two before going to sleep.....
> 
> ...




Yes you can try the FAAEAL Datura Pro as @cenizas said. About $20ish. Nice timbre and a midcentric gem. I like it for jazz and classical. Just that the subbass and higher treble is quite rolled off so it is not the best for bass forward music, but it takes to EQ quite well if u wish to EQ the bass up.


----------



## prionsarebad

baskingshark said:


> Yes you can try the FAAEAL Datura Pro as @cenizas said. About $20ish. Nice timbre and a midcentric gem. I like it for jazz and classical. Just that the subbass and higher treble is quite rolled off so it is not the best for bass forward music, but it takes to EQ quite well if u wish to EQ the bass up.


Great, thanks guys. It's in the basket!

If i have both the iris 2.0 and datura pro is there any merit in also getting the commemorative snow lotus now? is there anything it is doing that i cant get with the other two? thanks.


----------



## wskl

prionsarebad said:


> I've literally spent the last 4 hours covering all earbuds forums....I'm tired, lol.
> 
> I can either jump straight to sambat st10s gold....or test further with entry stuff like the commemorative snow lotus and the me80....or I could also try mid tier sambat st10 45 ohm green.
> 
> I generally prefer warm, analogue type sound, for classical and choral, jazz, classic 70s/80s pop/rock, the usual.





prionsarebad said:


> Last night I think I discovered the perfect scenario, for me personally, when I will use earbuds.
> 
> After the children had gone to bed and the house was quiet, I was chillaxing on the sofa, mentally winding down for an hour or two before going to sleep.....
> 
> ...



The Smabat and ME80 won't be suitable for you, they are both clean sounding.

If by warm analogue sound, you are thinking of vinyl, or the analogue sound you get from older classical recordings, particularly from the 1950-70s period, I think you should try the Monk Plus or Monk Plus SPC.  Both have lovely warm analogue sounding mids, a moment ago I was listening to a few Sibelius symphonies with Vanska as conductor, with the Smabat ST-10, technically they are great, expansive soundstage, I can hear all the details in the music but something is missing, it all sounds a bit sterile.

I switch to the Monk Plus SPC and it's like a switch has been flicked, I am enjoying the music much more now and it is down to the Monk's mids.  Sure the Monks cannot technically match many of the recent earbuds from the past year or so but I don't care, everytime I go back to my Monks they put a smile on my face.


----------



## Sam L

WoodyLuvr said:


> I think some would even argue that the "Great Value/Great Sound" tier level begins much, much lower at around $8-9 for something like the exceptionally good NICEHCK B40 and that "Custom TOTL" tier level earbuds are now starting at around $150-$200.


Actually, yes I agree with you. I forgot the gentleman on Facebook who builds custom totl earbuds. I would assume those are pretty much endgame for earbuds.


----------



## wazzupi

Sam L said:


> Actually, yes I agree with you. I forgot the gentleman on Facebook who builds custom totl earbuds. I would assume those are pretty much endgame for earbuds.


who ?


----------



## cenizas

prionsarebad said:


> Great, thanks guys. It's in the basket!
> 
> If i have both the iris 2.0 and datura pro is there any merit in also getting the commemorative snow lotus now? is there anything it is doing that i cant get with the other two? thanks.


I can't speak for that variant but I have the snow lotus 1+ and while it is warm in overall tone, there is a bit of glare in the upper mids that makes vocals sound a bit strained. I also find the datura pro to be technically superior, so personally I'd be fine with giving the snow lotus a pass.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 12, 2020)

wazzupi said:


> who ?


Referring to *Wong Kuan Wae* @ Blur Earbuds  Love me Blurs!

*Instagram@1974_boleh7 
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1515692960
https://m.facebook.com/groups/1776232929304900 *


Link to Blur Earbud thread *HERE*


----------



## Jitu13

Hi everyone. I am a complete noob in earphones. They piqued my interest a month ago and now I want to try some earbuds. I want to buy 3-4 earbuds on this summer sale, my combined budget is 20-25$. I want to try different sound signatures to get a feel as to which one suits me better, so please give me as diversified list as you can. Here's a list I made seeing the post in this thread but I am not sure which to pick from here to cover a lot of signatures. Thanks in advance. 

1.Nicehck ME80 
2.Yincrow X6
3.Nicehck B40
4.Faaeal Snow-Lotus 1.0 plus commemorative
5.Faaeal Snow-Lotus 1.0
6.Faaeal Iris 2.0
7.Headroom MS16
8.Fengru Tingo TC200
9.VE Monk Plus
10.Vido
11. RY4S plus


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Jun 13, 2020)

Jitu13 said:


> please give me as diversified list as you can.



RY4S Plus
Yincrow X6
Qian25
Qian69
Fengru EMX500
Vido White or Red
VE Monk
TinGo TC200


----------



## Jitu13 (Jun 13, 2020)

Alex.Grimm said:


> RY4S Plus
> Yincrow X6
> Qian25
> Qian69
> ...


Thanks a lot, can you tell me a bit about their sound signature? If I buy monk+, Tingo tc200, and Qian25, will I get different sound signatures all together or will they overlap a lot?


----------



## wskl

Jitu13 said:


> Hi everyone. I am a complete noob in earphones. They piqued my interest a month ago and now I want to try some earbuds. I want to buy 3-4 earbuds on this summer sale, my combined budget is 20-25$. I want to try different sound signatures to get a feel as to which one suits me better, so please give me as diversified list as you can. Here's a list I made seeing the post in this thread but I am not sure which to pick from here to cover a lot of signatures. Thanks in advance.
> 
> 1.Nicehck ME80
> 2.Yincrow X6
> ...



Instead of trying different signatures (which is not a bad thing), since you mentioned you are new to earbuds it may make sense to try a few earbuds with different designs because earbuds can be a bit finicky to get the correct fit depending on your ear shape and size.

My 2 cents.

P.S.  With the NiceHCK B40, you can get 2 different signatures on that earbud just by changing the foams.  Donut foam will give you clearer mids, full foam will give you warmer mids and a bit more bass but it may sound a little bloated or muddy when listening to busy sounding music.


----------



## Slater (Jun 13, 2020)

Can anyone compare Astrotec Lyra vs DQSM Turandot?

Or should I just get it over with and go right to something like Ks Bell?


----------



## Jitu13

wskl said:


> Instead of trying different signatures (which is not a bad thing), since you mentioned you are new to earbuds it may make sense to try a few earbuds with different designs because earbuds can be a bit finicky to get the correct fit depending on your ear shape and size.
> 
> My 2 cents.
> 
> P.S.  With the NiceHCK B40, you can get 2 different signatures on that earbud just by changing the foams.  Donut foam will give you clearer mids, full foam will give you warmer mids and a bit more bass but it may sound a little bloated or muddy when listening to busy sounding music.


Thanks, I guess I should try different shells to see the fit. What do you think about the following list, should I order these?
1.ME80
2.B40
3.Fengru Tingo Tc200
4.Monk+/Yincrow X6/MS16
I am not sure about the last one though. I really want to try monk+ or vido(x6) because of their hype, on the other hand, MS16 will basically cover most of the earbuds style. It's really hard to decide on 4!!


----------



## wskl

Jitu13 said:


> Thanks, I guess I should try different shells to see the fit. What do you think about the following list, should I order these?
> 1.ME80
> 2.B40
> 3.Fengru Tingo Tc200
> ...



Sure, seems like a good list to start with, maybe go with the MS16 for #4 so that you can try a different shell.


----------



## Ron Good

prionsarebad said:


> Normally I would be listening to iems, but I often find their sound too intense for that time of night.......last night listening to the faaeal iris 2.0 for the first time with no ambient noise..... It was so relaxing....the perception of a large soundstage like you are wearing headphones (but without the uncomfortable weight or awkwardness of large headphones), and with a gentle balanced sound that wasn't too stimulating. I felt like I could lay there forever..... This was a new audiophile feeling for me. And once again I was feeling shocked by the sound quality of $6 earbuds.



And there you have it--my number one reason for earbuds as opposed to iems: comfortable, relaxed sound, with a soundstage that invites me to listen to the music, not the headphones.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

prionsarebad said:


> Normally I would be listening to iems, but I often find their sound too intense for that time of night.......last night listening to the faaeal iris 2.0 for the first time with no ambient noise..... It was so relaxing....the perception of a large soundstage like you are wearing headphones (but without the uncomfortable weight or awkwardness of large headphones), and with a gentle balanced sound that wasn't too stimulating. I felt like I could lay there forever..... This was a new audiophile feeling for me. And once again I was feeling shocked by the sound quality of $6 earbuds.





Ron Good said:


> And there you have it--my number one reason for earbuds as opposed to iems: comfortable, relaxed sound, with a soundstage that invites me to listen to the music, not the headphones.


@Ron Good  Concur completely!


----------



## Sunstealer (Jun 14, 2020)

Awaiting RY4S plus still. When the AE sale hits tomorrow, picking up Edifier H180, TY HiZ 32, NicehCK B40 and Iris 1.0. Also some prewired MMCX sockets so I can mod any earpieces that fit me and sound good.


----------



## baskingshark

Sunstealer said:


> Awaiting RY4S plus still. When the AE sale hits tomorrow, picking up Edifier H180, TY HiZ 32, NicehCK B40 and Iris 1.0. Also some prewired MMCX sockets that I will mod any earpieces that fit me and I like the sound of.



Nice!

Does anyone know how the FAAEAL Iris 2.0 compares to the 1.0 version?


----------



## MisterMudd

Jitu13 said:


> Thanks, I guess I should try different shells to see the fit. What do you think about the following list, should I order these?
> 1.ME80
> 2.B40
> 3.Fengru Tingo Tc200
> ...


It’s hard to go wrong with the X6. Highly recommended.


----------



## prionsarebad

Ok, so I have been chatting with Wong about his earbuds. Very nice guy; friendly and helpful.

My question is to those of you who have his boutique products; could you compare to some of your commercial high-end earbuds? Or if you have two or more of his ear buds which do you prefer?

Since I have only $6 iris 2.0 should I jump straight to his TOTL magic or would people advise to spend more time exploring cheaper, but popular commercial models as we read here on the forum before deciding which of his models to get at some later point in time?

Thanks!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

prionsarebad said:


> Ok, so I have been chatting with Wong about his earbuds. Very nice guy; friendly and helpful.
> 
> My question is to those of you who have his boutique products; could you compare to some of your commercial high-end earbuds? Or if you have two or more of his ear buds which do you prefer?
> 
> ...


There is nothing like a Blur. Wong is beyond the serious DIY'er and approaches his work as an appreciating artist. He is meticulous and takes his time tuning; there is no rushing him. I honestly do not recall seeing or reading a single post from a disappointed customer who has bought from him... ever. Everyone has been more than pleased with his work. With that said, I honestly don't think there is any real fair comparison to give you as they are so uniquely tuned.


----------



## prionsarebad

WoodyLuvr said:


> There is nothing like a Blur. Wong is beyond the serious DIY'er and approaches his work as an appreciating artist. He is meticulous and takes his time tuning; there is no rushing him. I honestly do not recall seeing or reading a single post from a disappointed customer who has bought from him... ever. Everyone has been more than pleased with his work. With that said, I honestly don't think there is any real fair comparison to give you as they are so uniquely tuned.


Thanks.

Does that mean they are uniquely tuned in a way that makes commercial, cheaper iems seem irrelevant/pointlessly?

Is it possible to describe, from your perspective, the tuning?

Thanks.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 14, 2020)

prionsarebad said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Does that mean they are uniquely tuned in a way that makes commercial, cheaper iems seem irrelevant/pointlessly?
> 
> ...


Simply different. And to be clear there is no comparison with IEMs. Earbuds are much more similar to Open Backs than IEMs... as IEMs are more similar to Closed Backs. Many have likened the Blur house sound to the neutral, well timbre'd, and detailed Sennheiser HD600, I would agree with this. I am extremely sensitive to treble and overly detailed headphones in general... as much as I love my Blurs I can only use them for short one to two hour sessions so they are only used for critical, short day-time listening sessions. Please do not take this as a "con" but rather a personal hearing issue that I have with most headphones.


----------



## Saoshyant

@prionsarebad I'd recommend taking your time working your way up.  Your best values are always going to be early on, with the best compromise between cost and quality probably around $100 USD give or take.  I'd probably recommend getting three starter earbuds to anyone new to this format.  A brassy earbud, one with good mids, and a treble oriented to give you a reference for your tastes.  

Earbuds simply cannot be compared to IEMs or full sized given their nature, so taking your time to learn and enjoy the journey will give you the best idea of exactly what you're seeking when or if you do go to TOTL.  The counterargument is that if you do absolutely know you'll buy TOTL, you'll overall spend less money going straight there, but there's more of a risk of not getting the ideal sound.  I haven't been around for awhile, but in my experience I feel the journey helped me the most figure out what I'm after.

Then again I did spend a large amount for my end game earbud, and also got a decent amount of what might be considered TOTL, so a lot of money could have been saved.


----------



## 1clearhead

Anyone could pitch in...

I am looking for earbuds that has rich deep bass like the MEMT T5 earpods with similar transparent MID's, highs and loudness. Can anyone direct me to such earbuds on Taobao for my next purchase? The cost and range doesn't matter to me, just as long as you have the MEMT T5 to compare it to. I would like to purchase them on the 6/18 sales coming up.

Thanks in advance!

-Clear


----------



## cenizas

Saoshyant said:


> @prionsarebad I'd recommend taking your time working your way up.  Your best values are always going to be early on, with the best compromise between cost and quality probably around $100 USD give or take.  I'd probably recommend getting three starter earbuds to anyone new to this format.  A brassy earbud, one with good mids, and a treble oriented to give you a reference for your tastes.
> 
> Earbuds simply cannot be compared to IEMs or full sized given their nature, so taking your time to learn and enjoy the journey will give you the best idea of exactly what you're seeking when or if you do go to TOTL.  The counterargument is that if you do absolutely know you'll buy TOTL, you'll overall spend less money going straight there, but there's more of a risk of not getting the ideal sound.  I haven't been around for awhile, but in my experience I feel the journey helped me the most figure out what I'm after.
> 
> Then again I did spend a large amount for my end game earbud, and also got a decent amount of what might be considered TOTL, so a lot of money could have been saved.


Just curious, which buds did you end up settling on?


----------



## Saoshyant

cenizas said:


> Just curious, which buds did you end up settling on?



K's Poseidon, although if I had stopped before then, I would have been very happy with either CampFred 1 or 2, Mojito, or a few others.


----------



## jeejack

Hello ! what to start this 10 $ buds adventure?
B40, ME 80, Datura X, RY4S, snow lotus or iris?
I like sound signature on Blon 03, AS10 and CCA C12
Thank you guys!


----------



## Alex.Grimm

jeejack said:


> Hello ! what to start this 10 $ buds adventure?
> B40, ME 80, Datura X, RY4S, snow lotus or iris?
> I like sound signature on Blon 03, AS10 and CCA C12
> Thank you guys!


RY4S Plus MMCX


----------



## jeejack

Alex.Grimm said:


> RY4S Plus MMCX


I ordered them. Thank you!


----------



## DrKemikaru

jeejack said:


> Hello ! what to start this 10 $ buds adventure?
> B40, ME 80, Datura X, RY4S, snow lotus or iris?
> I like sound signature on Blon 03, AS10 and CCA C12
> Thank you guys!



Maybe Vido? It is very cheap earbuds, firstly. Secondly, it have pleasantly tonality. This is not best choise, but this earbuds very nice to listen, it is like home fluffy slippers. 



Can't say about all Iris models, but I have listen to the Iris: CE. It is good bright earbuds with the upper mids accent, and good punch.


----------



## jeejack

I ordered RY4S plus and Vido. Thank you !


----------



## prionsarebad (Jun 15, 2020)

I read Hungry Panda's old posts and ordered Toneking to200  Just $40 these days.


----------



## DBaldock9

prionsarebad said:


> I read Hungry Panda's old posts and ordered Toneking to200  Just $40 these days.



The TO200 is nice, with more of a mid-Bass hump, than a low-Bass boost.


----------



## JPardo

Hello!  I am curious to know what the Shozy XB are like compared to the Willsound MK2 VJC.  I currently own the MK2 and I am happy with them but I have always read good things about the XB in its price range.  I doubt if they would have too similar a profile.


----------



## 1clearhead

Update on my quest for the best sounding earbuds:

First of all, I want to thank 'mbwilson111' for her awesome list of earbuds on her profile page where I was able to follow on some of her favorite choices of earbuds. From her list of favorites, I received one yesterday which I placed an order a week ago that blew me away! ...The *Yincrow RW-9*! These earbuds are no joke! They don't look specifically expensive per say or have special materials and looks that set them apart from those in the upper $100 to $300 dollar range. But, what they do provide is an expensive, mature, holographic-like surrounding signature that one can not resist! These are completely balanced with a good extended low sub-bass coherent rumble, MID's that outshine in excellently on any of my earbuds I currently have, and incredible precision in the hi-end treble that sounds too good for the asking price. I wanted an earbud that will have a similar sound signature to my favorite earpod, the MEMT T5, and WOW! It actually exceeded all expectations and more!

Final thoughts:

Even though, I have a few more earbuds coming my way by delivery. It is very hard to see how they will fair with such an excellent sounding signature like the Yincrow RW-9.

Soon to arrive any day now for comparison:

TONEKING TING
EDIFIER H190 (Gold)

Hope this helps anyone looking for good sounding buds for a low budget price...

-Clear


----------



## waynes world

1clearhead said:


> Update on my quest for the best sounding earbuds:
> 
> First of all, I want to thank 'mbwilson111' for her awesome list of earbuds on her profile page where I was able to follow on some of her favorite choices of earbuds. From her list of favorites, I received one yesterday which I placed an order a week ago that blew me away! ...The *Yincrow RW-9*! These earbuds are no joke! They don't look specifically expensive per say or have special materials and looks that set them apart from those in the upper $100 to $300 dollar range. But, what they do provide is an expensive, mature, holographic-like surrounding signature that one can not resist! These are completely balanced with a good extended low sub-bass coherent rumble, MID's that outshine in excellently on any of my earbuds I currently have, and incredible precision in the hi-end treble that sounds too good for the asking price. I wanted an earbud that will have a similar sound signature to my favorite earpod, the MEMT T5, and WOW! It actually exceeded all expectations and more!
> 
> ...



+100! Glad you're enjoying them! I love the RW9's as well (permanent spot in my favorites list)


----------



## 1clearhead

waynes world said:


> +100! Glad you're enjoying them! I love the RW9's as well (permanent spot in my favorites list)


Cheers!


----------



## kagesama2411

barbazz said:


> Stock cables, in my case, last 1minute
> 
> Here's my second ES10 mod, this time for my son. Yes, I know, crappy picture. Working on that...



Sir, I'm having difficulty opening this buds for recable purposes. Any tips on how you did it?


----------



## mbwilson111

waynes world said:


> +100! Glad you're enjoying them! I love the RW9's as well (permanent spot in my favorites list)



I think you were the reason that I bought the RW9.  You do your job of enabling quite well.


----------



## DrKemikaru (Jun 16, 2020)

jeejack said:


> I ordered RY4S plus and Vido. Thank you !



You are welcome!
Also I need to warn that Vido have a kind of veil. It's not a big problem, but you need to know about it. However, like I said, these earbuds have very pleasant tonality and universality for a lot of music genres.




Good luck in starting in this kind of hobby!


----------



## Zorba

Plan on getting the same combo (RY4S plus mmcx and Vido) for my first dive into earbuds. 
I have read in this thread that in Vido diferent color mean diferent sound (because of diferent foams?), does the same apply to RY4S plus mmcx or are all the same?

Thank you!


----------



## Jsingh4

Anybody know about buds made by them


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> I think you were the reason that I bought the RW9.  You do your job of enabling quite well.



I've learned from the best


----------



## cenizas

Danneq said:


> On one of my more and more rare visits here. There are more TOTL earbuds than SWD3 and CAX Red Dragon. I remember Herry said that he would not make more Red Dragon because it took too much time and he's got other projects plus a full time job. The first pair was made after a guy asked for a custom made pair of earbuds. I actually own that very pair, and bought it second hand from the original owner. I think he paid close to $700 and I got it for a little over $600. That pair had a sound that was customed to be close to HD800s. At least one more pair has been made, that was sold to a guy in South Korea. If you search this thread, you can probably find info on that.
> While I think Red Dragon is far above my other earbuds in SQ, dynamics, detail etc, I am not sure if I would pay that much again for earbuds or headphones. (other earbuds I own are for example SWD2+, Cypherus Campfred 2 & Zoomfred, Blox TM 7 & TM9 & ABnormal Diomnes Lv2). Plus the cable is super stiff which makes difficult to use when moving around. Just move your head slightly and they pop out of your ears.
> 
> Prices have gone up the last few years. Still cheaper than IEMs, though.
> ...


Hey, just curious how the Blox buds compare to the swd2+, any insights you could share? Also, wonder how far off the Bloxs and the swd2+ are from the red dragon in terms of performance.


----------



## voxdub

I did so well, not bought any earbuds for about 8 months, last 24hrs bought Snow Lotus 1.0, Traceless and RW-9 after recent comments on here, really excited to try something new, been using BK2 and RY4S UE for what seems like forever.


----------



## waynes world

voxdub said:


> I did so well, not bought any earbuds for about 8 months, last 24hrs bought Snow Lotus 1.0, Traceless and RW-9 after recent comments on here, really excited to try something new, been using BK2 and RY4S UE for what seems like forever.



Resistance! Is! Futile! 

I'm not familiar with the Traceless, so I'll be interested in how you think they compare.


----------



## voxdub

waynes world said:


> Resistance! Is! Futile!
> 
> I'm not familiar with the Traceless, so I'll be interested in how you think they compare.


I've heard they're essentially Vidos, got the red and blue transparent ones, will be interesting to see how they compare.


----------



## bystander

During recent months I was reminiscing about stock earbuds I had with my Technics cd player as a teen and my first player ever, iriver e10, bought it right at release. Since these were very good memories of innocent music enjoyment I decided to buy some new earbuds in 2020. Two Faaeal models: blue Snow Lotus 1.0+ 64ohm and Datura X. Don't know why I decided to get these exact models, probably because of nice names, decent comments and intuition. Anyway, Snow Lotuses are almost here and Daturas will take a while. I also want earbuds because it's not pleasant to use in-ears after the late evening shower. Looking forward to hearing them and maybe even recreating that teen feeling.


----------



## LordZero

I have been using the **** bk2 everyday, when watching stuff on my phone/tablet at home and need a second pair 

Instead of buying the same... I was looking for a alternative. Is the Chitty's SR2 16ohms still better at 10-20usd price range, or is better?

PS: I ordered the SR2, 2 months ago, but never arrived


----------



## DBaldock9

Received an email today from AliExpress, saying that my Smabat ST-10s (Gold/Black) has arrived at my local Post Office. So, maybe they'll be in my mailbox in the next day or two. 
. 
Looking forward to hearing them. 
. 
Are y'all liking them with - No Foams, Thin Foams, Thick Foams, or Donut Foams?


----------



## assassin10000 (Jun 16, 2020)

LordZero said:


> Instead of buying the same... I was looking for a alternative. Is the Chitty's SR2 16ohms still better at 10-20usd price range, or is better?
> 
> PS: I ordered the SR2, 2 months ago, but never arrived



I tried the single vent shell version, it was not very good. Sounded muffled and veiled. Tried the blowing/suction trick, donut foams, etc and no dice. Worse sounding bud I've heard.

The double vent shell is reportedly decent but I haven't heard it.


----------



## Danneq

cenizas said:


> Hey, just curious how the Blox buds compare to the swd2+, any insights you could share? Also, wonder how far off the Bloxs and the swd2+ are from the red dragon in terms of performance.



It's been a while since I listened to TM7. I think it's slightly better than TM9, even if that's also good. I would pick SWD2+ over both Blox earbuds. The soundstage on SWD2+ and TM9 are about the same. TM7 is slightly smaller. When it comes to instrument placement and layering SWD2+ is slightly better than TM7 which in turn is better than TM9. SWD2+ is slightly bright sounding but not harsh. It's got surprisingly good bass for an earbud with that type of shell. They all are slightly different with SWD2+ being about details, TM9 about soundstage and TM7 about musicality (I always groove when I use TM7, although I do not use it outside anymore since it's an old and rare earbud).

Red Dragon is a pair of full size headphones in MX500 shells. Not really much more I can write about it. You can easily distinguish tiny details in the music, feel the "ambiance" of the room where the music was recorded. It cannot compete with high end headphones, but I'm amazed that a pair of earbuds have such a big and full sound with real weight in all the instruments.

Usually when I go out I choose between SWD2+, Cypherus CampFred 2 and ZoomFred. Those 3 are my main earbuds.

I am so far able to hold back from trying stuff like Ourart QJ21 and DQSM Turandot. If I find them at a good price with not or minimum import taxes added, I might fail to hold back.


----------



## LordZero (Jun 17, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> I tried the single vent shell version, it was not very good. Sounded muffled and veiled. Tried the blowing/suction trick, donut foams, etc and no dice. Worse sounding bud I've heard.
> 
> The double vent shell is reportedly decent but I haven't heard it.



I didn't know there were 2 versions of the SR2 :\ In your opinion what is the best earbud for 20/30usd?

I really like the yinyºº bk2. I was looking at the toneking TO200, but my phone and tablet couldn't drive that at all.


----------



## assassin10000

LordZero said:


> I didn't know there were 2 versions of the SR2 :\ In your opinion what is the best earbud for 20/30usd?



For a warm almost analogue sound that's great for rock, the best I've heard is the K's LB/LBB. Better than the BK2 IMO.

For other sound signatures I'm not too sure. Maybe a willsound mk2, mk3 or mk32, which is a few $ more but I haven't personally heard them.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

LordZero said:


> In your opinion what is the best earbud for 20/30usd?


You might consider the NICEHCK ME80?


----------



## cenizas

Danneq said:


> It's been a while since I listened to TM7. I think it's slightly better than TM9, even if that's also good. I would pick SWD2+ over both Blox earbuds. The soundstage on SWD2+ and TM9 are about the same. TM7 is slightly smaller. When it comes to instrument placement and layering SWD2+ is slightly better than TM7 which in turn is better than TM9. SWD2+ is slightly bright sounding but not harsh. It's got surprisingly good bass for an earbud with that type of shell. They all are slightly different with SWD2+ being about details, TM9 about soundstage and TM7 about musicality (I always groove when I use TM7, although I do not use it outside anymore since it's an old and rare earbud).
> 
> Red Dragon is a pair of full size headphones in MX500 shells. Not really much more I can write about it. You can easily distinguish tiny details in the music, feel the "ambiance" of the room where the music was recorded. It cannot compete with high end headphones, but I'm amazed that a pair of earbuds have such a big and full sound with real weight in all the instruments.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for taking the time to share this! You mentioned the swd2+ being slightly on the bright side. What's the tonality of the TM9, and if I were to get only one between the two which would you recommend? Also curious about how the swd2+ compared to the campfred and zoomfred. And since you're the only person I know who owns both, is the zoomfred really a little red dragon?


----------



## LordZero

assassin10000 said:


> For a warm almost analogue sound that's great for rock, the best I've heard is the K's LB/LBB. Better than the BK2 IMO.
> 
> For other sound signatures I'm not too sure. Maybe a willsound mk2, mk3 or mk32, which is a few $ more but I haven't personally heard them.



Always had my eye on the K's LBB, maybe I will try it, is cheaper now. The Willsound MK2 is a little bit more than I want to spend, also there is so many versions, the MK2 MMCX is the standard one?



WoodyLuvr said:


> You might consider the NICEHCK ME80?



I have it  But the cable and shell doesn't play well with my ears, also I prefer the sound of the BK2.


----------



## bystander (Jun 17, 2020)

Just an hour with Snow Lotus 1.0+ "Commemorative Edition" and I liked them. Not because of nostalgic reasons but they actually sound nice. A tad warm but clean sound with hints of sub bass. Atmospheric and open presentation. I will spend a lot of time with them especially at night when it's quiet. Also unexpectedly good build and cable. Well done, Faaeal.

upd. Not hints in fact, it's a real deal sub bass when it's needed. So that's what ~8$ earbud provides in 2020? Alright...I'm very satisfied.


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

Hey! I am looking for a iem/ earbuds that has huge soundstage and arent to bright! Anyone who can give me a tip? Budget max 100 usd, but flexible. Prefer to shop at aliE or in usedmarket.

Thanks=)


----------



## DBaldock9

DBaldock9 said:


> Received an email today from AliExpress, saying that my Smabat ST-10s (Gold/Black) has arrived at my local Post Office. So, maybe they'll be in my mailbox in the next day or two.
> .
> Looking forward to hearing them.
> .
> Are y'all liking them with - No Foams, Thin Foams, Thick Foams, or Donut Foams?



The ST-10s (Gold/Black) arrived today, and I installed some Thin Foams (probably from a VE Extra Pack).

Started out watching a couple of episodes of "*Midsomer Murders*" (featuring music themed murders...), with them connected this way:
.
*Roku Net Streamer* [TOSLINK] -> *Topping D70 DAC* (Dual AK4497EQ) [XLR] -> *Loxjie P20 Fully Balanced Tube Hybrid Amp* (2x Reflektor 6N3P-DR Tubes (1980 NOS); 4-pair OPA-627AU Op-Amps) [2.5mm TRRS] -> *Impact Audio Cables  Balanced MMCX Cable* (Custom 2-strand Type 6 Copper Litz) -> *Smabat ST-10s (Gold/Black) Earbuds*
.
These ST-10s have a wide open Sound Stage, with an amazing presentation of the ambient sounds.
.
Now, I've switched over to the live concert video that I like so much, "*Joe Broughton's Conservatoire Folk Ensemble at Shrewsbury Folk Festival 2017*" -
Just from these initial few hours of listening - they've definitely moved to the top of my list of favorite earbuds.
(Still need to try them with lower powered DAPs/Amps (Shanling M0, ZiShan DSD, Radsone ES100, FiiO BTR5) and my Phone.)
.


----------



## baskingshark

DBaldock9 said:


> The ST-10s (Gold/Black) arrived today, and I installed some Thin Foams (probably from a VE Extra Pack).
> 
> Started out watching a couple of episodes of "*Midsomer Murders*" (featuring music themed murders...), with them connected this way:
> .
> ...




Nice!

How does it compare to the regular ST10 (non S)? I'm wondering if it is still worth it to get for existing ST10 owners?

I quite like the stage and technicalities the regular ST10 brings to the table, plus the great subbass extension for a bud, though the timbre isn't as great for some acoustic instruments. How's the timbre on this black gold ST10S?

TIA!


----------



## Slater

DBaldock9 said:


> Started out watching a couple of episodes of "*Midsomer Murders*" (featuring music themed murders...)



Like murders set to music?

Or like the story of Kurt Cobain’s murder?


----------



## DBaldock9

Slater said:


> Like murders set to music?
> 
> Or like the story of Kurt Cobain’s murder?





Midsomer Murders - Series 9, Episode 7 (2005-06) - "Death in Chorus"
Midsomer Murders - Series 17, Episode 3 (2015) - "The Ballad of Midsomer County"

There are 3 or 4 more episode that feature a music theme, but these are the two I watched tonight.


----------



## emusic13

Finally ordered the Turandot today. Couldn't pass up the sale price on Aliexpress. Only have to wait a month   
Now to decide if I also want the Smabat gold too since its only $125 now


----------



## 1clearhead

Does anyone know any earbuds that has a better constructive feel to them with detachable cables and sounds similar or exactly like the YINCROW RW-9? Please let me know, only if you own the Yincrow rw-9 and can compare it to other buds.

I am really seeking this form and sound mentioned above.

-Clear


----------



## Danneq

cenizas said:


> Thank you so much for taking the time to share this! You mentioned the swd2+ being slightly on the bright side. What's the tonality of the TM9, and if I were to get only one between the two which would you recommend? Also curious about how the swd2+ compared to the campfred and zoomfred. And since you're the only person I know who owns both, is the zoomfred really a little red dragon?



Yeah, SWD2+ is slightly on the bright side but it doesn't bother me, and I am sensitive to that. TM9 is anything but bright. The highs sound a bit "woolly". It is smooth and laid back, but a bit too smooth and laid back for some. I think I remember there was some criticism when it came out because of the lacking highs so Blox re-tuned it and came out with a new version with another name. Was it Blox Yin? For me TM9 works best with more laid back music. With metal or similar music, it's just not punchy enough.
In a way SWD2+ and Blox TM9 are opposites with SWD2+ focusing on upper mids and highs, with good bass included, and TM9 more being about mids. Not as deep bass and more of a mid bass bump on TM9.

CampFred 2 is a great earbud that works with all types of music. It is quite musical and you just groove with the music, while it still has got good detail and bass. ZoomFred is more "raw" sounding. Bass is VERY deep for a pair of earbuds. ZoomFred has got a more "in your face" presentation of the music than the more musical sounding CampFred 2.

ZoomFred has got similarities to my pair of Red Dragon. Remember that the few Red Dragons that have been made have all been custom tuned, so there is no "Red Dragon sound signature", my pair is tuned toward Sennheiser HD800S. I think a pair made for a guy in South Korea was tuned toward Focal Utopia, if I remember correctly. Haven't heard Focal Utopia, though. Only heard Sennheiser HD800S shortly in a store in Japan a few years ago. In the future I might bring my Red Dragon to Japan and compare it directly.
Hope this damn corona goes away soon...
Perhaps you can call ZoomFred a "mini Red Dragon", but it's much rawer sounding with a bigger bass slam. Bass is more controlled and textured on Red Dragon. The soundstage is wider and deeper with better detail, instrument layering and separation. But ZoomFred is really good, and I heard that ZoomFred Pro is better, and also uses less stiff cable than the regular ZoomFred.


----------



## LordZero

Anyone can compare the  YINCROW RW-9, yiny** bk2 and k's lbb?

Also the cable on the silver K's LBB, seems more springy than the black, is true?


----------



## wskl

LordZero said:


> Anyone can compare the  YINCROW RW-9, yiny** bk2 and k's lbb?
> 
> Also the cable on the silver K's LBB, seems more springy than the black, is true?



I have the silver K's LBB but I don't have the black to compare, but I can confirm that the cable is springy and has memory, also prone to oxidation.

Someone said that the black LBB is warm sounding, the silver has a signature closer to NiceHCK EB2 or Moondrop Shiro-Yuki, i.e. quite balanced sounding but with a slight emphasis on the upper mids and tonality is neutral-bright.


----------



## LordZero

wskl said:


> I have the silver K's LBB but I don't have the black to compare, but I can confirm that the cable is springy and has memory, also prone to oxidation.
> 
> Someone said that the black LBB is warm sounding, the silver has a signature closer to NiceHCK EB2 or Moondrop Shiro-Yuki, i.e. quite balanced sounding but with a slight emphasis on the upper mids and tonality is neutral-bright.



Thank you! Didn't know there was a difference between the black and silver :/ sucks that the cable is like that. One of the reasons I love the bk2 is the cable, very flexible.

Thanks for the feedback, seems that I have to wait for the black to be on stock again.


----------



## bar3336

Hey guys, maybe a weird question...but i"m searching for earbuds that will be good for watching movies and tv shows, headphones are uncomfortable for me because i have a big head and large ears, so earbuds will be a better choice i think, so do i need to spend a lot- like the smabat st10, or another flagship or will it be an overkill? Thx


----------



## voxdub

bar3336 said:


> Hey guys, maybe a weird question...but i"m searching for earbuds that will be good for watching movies and tv shows, headphones are uncomfortable for me because i have a big head and large ears, so earbuds will be a better choice i think, so do i need to spend a lot- like the smabat st10, or another flagship or will it be an overkill? Thx


Probably overkill unless you'll use them for music also, plenty of budget earbuds sound good and would be perfectly fine for TV and film, comfort is why I use earbuds (I have small ears though). I can end up with them in a whole day and absolutely no discomfort which I can't get with headphones or IEMs. If you need some decent low end depending on type of TV and films then the RY4S UE is a good place to start in budget buds.


----------



## bar3336

voxdub said:


> Probably overkill unless you'll use them for music also, plenty of budget earbuds sound good and would be perfectly fine for TV and film, comfort is why I use earbuds (I have small ears though). I can end up with them in a whole day and absolutely no discomfort which I can't get with headphones or IEMs. If you need some decent low end depending on type of TV and films then the RY4S UE is a good place to start in budget buds.



Thx...they don't necessarily need to be budget earbuds, want good quality audio when watching...


----------



## Danneq

bar3336 said:


> Hey guys, maybe a weird question...but i"m searching for earbuds that will be good for watching movies and tv shows, headphones are uncomfortable for me because i have a big head and large ears, so earbuds will be a better choice i think, so do i need to spend a lot- like the smabat st10, or another flagship or will it be an overkill? Thx



Something like a pair of VE Monk+ earbuds will be fine for watching movies. That's what I use my Monk+ for mainly these days...


----------



## bar3336

I'm not watching on a laptop...watching using a good projector on a 120' screen, so i want to match the picture quality with audio quality as best i can considering the limitations of headphones in general and earbuds in specific, so what is my best earbuds choice for premium audio for tv and movies?


----------



## voxdub

bar3336 said:


> I'm not watching on a laptop...watching using a good projector on a 120' screen, so i want to match the picture quality with audio quality as best i can considering the limitations of headphones in general and earbuds in specific, so what is my best earbuds choice for premium audio for tv and movies?



If the excellent and great value RY4S and Monk+ are too cheap perhaps give the Ksearphone Bell-Ti a go, they're a little bit more expensive but will definitely give you a premium feel to go with your projector.


----------



## bar3336

voxdub said:


> If the excellent and great value RY4S and Monk+ are too cheap perhaps give the Ksearphone Bell-Ti a go, they're a little bit more expensive but will definitely give you a premium feel to go with your projector.



A little more expensive? They're like 300$ right? If you guys say the ry4s is good enough then great, appreciate the help


----------



## Slater (Jun 18, 2020)

Received the NiceHCK Traceless today (in transparent red/blue). I really like their fit and sound. Especially when worn sideways, which gives a huge low end boost.

I know they’re just fancy Vidos, but since I don’t have Vidos I can’t compare them to the even cheaper Vidos. But the Traceless sounds great to me, and they were like $5 which is dirt cheap in my book.


----------



## cenizas (Jun 19, 2020)

Danneq said:


> Yeah, SWD2+ is slightly on the bright side but it doesn't bother me, and I am sensitive to that. TM9 is anything but bright. The highs sound a bit "woolly". It is smooth and laid back, but a bit too smooth and laid back for some. I think I remember there was some criticism when it came out because of the lacking highs so Blox re-tuned it and came out with a new version with another name. Was it Blox Yin? For me TM9 works best with more laid back music. With metal or similar music, it's just not punchy enough.
> In a way SWD2+ and Blox TM9 are opposites with SWD2+ focusing on upper mids and highs, with good bass included, and TM9 more being about mids. Not as deep bass and more of a mid bass bump on TM9.
> 
> CampFred 2 is a great earbud that works with all types of music. It is quite musical and you just groove with the music, while it still has got good detail and bass. ZoomFred is more "raw" sounding. Bass is VERY deep for a pair of earbuds. ZoomFred has got a more "in your face" presentation of the music than the more musical sounding CampFred 2.
> ...


Really appreciate the impressions, thanks! I'll probably give the TM9s a pass, sounds very similar to the QJ21. Man, from all the descriptions of the red dragon I would really love to hear one one day, seems to be a tier above all other flagships.


----------



## 1clearhead

Man, talk about bad luck on my orders here in China...

I received the NICEHCK B40, but the left side was busted! It sounded like a rattle snake with a busted rattle! Then, I received the EDIFIER H186P and that sounded like someone traded-off the diaphragms for transistor radio speakers! I'm sure they were fakes! Then after, I received the wrong EDIFIER H190P, which was suppose to be the Gold/Black, but was sent the wrong color, Silver/Black. But, after talking to the seller, he admitted on sending me the Silver/Black on purpose, since they didn't carry the Gold/Black H190P for quite a while. What? The selection clearly showed a picture of the Gold/Black model when selecting the color. You see, in China the Gold/Black cost more than the Silver/Black and Silver/White. Highway robbery, I guess? In the end, the TONEKING TING finally arrived and was well received ...worth every penny! Slightly brighter in the upper MID's than the YINCROW RW-9, plus the soundstage was excellent! Though, the RW-9 will be really hard to beat with its overall extended bass, crystal clear MID's, treble accuracy, and holographic and airy soundstage.

I'm waiting on a few more earbuds to arrive, and hopefully lay my wallet down to rest, soon after.
...But, I'm not making any promises.🤞

-Clear


----------



## Danneq

bar3336 said:


> I'm not watching on a laptop...watching using a good projector on a 120' screen, so i want to match the picture quality with audio quality as best i can considering the limitations of headphones in general and earbuds in specific, so what is my best earbuds choice for premium audio for tv and movies?



My projector is a bit old (Mitsubishi's old flagship HC7000 from 2008), but still quite good for 1080p material. It's also super quiet, only around 17dB in low lamp mode, almost completely silent. I can only project an image at around 80" currently, but it works. (sorry about the projector stuff, folks. It's another hobby of mine)

Monk+ works great for me. I mainly use those when I watch TV-shows on DVD on TV,  and not so often for movies on the projector.

But Monk+ is pretty flat sounding with is good for dialogue. So it would work great for comedies and drama. It might work for action and sci fi as well. But with the low prices you could try a few budget earbuds.
Vido is another good Chinese budget earbud with pretty good (but a bit muddy) bass. It's usually around 3-4 dollars so it might also be worth trying.


----------



## Hartleyhare2020

Hi. Someone suggested I ask here about advice on earbuds. 

I'm trying to find a really high quality VE Monk style of earbud: the type that just hang in the ear without sealing off the outside world.(So without rubber inserts)

I'm currently using a set of Atomic Floyd Airjax Titanium, without the hooks. They're fantastic, but they've stopped making them.

I'm happy to spend 50 to 100 dollars for some well built earbuds with good drivers.

Thanks


----------



## rkw

Hartleyhare2020 said:


> I'm trying to find a really high quality VE Monk style of earbud: the type that just hang in the ear without sealing off the outside world.(So without rubber inserts)


This thread (over 48,000 posts) is entirely devoted to that style of earbud (hang in the ear without sealing off the outside world). There are hundreds of choices covering all price ranges. You need to narrow it down by telling us what type of music you listen to and what is important to you in the sound (e.g. strong bass, emphasize vocals, etc).


----------



## Hartleyhare2020

rkw said:


> This thread (over 48,000 posts) is entirely devoted to that style of earbud (hang in the ear without sealing off the outside world). There are hundreds of choices covering all price ranges. You need to narrow it down by telling us what type of music you listen to and what is important to you in the sound (e.g. strong bass, emphasize vocals, etc).



The type of music would be guitar bands like Wilco, Grateful Dead etc. As for budget, I'm happy to pay decent money for longevity and quality. Most of my stereo equipment is 20 years old and still going strong.


----------



## FireHotStickies (Jun 20, 2020)

Hello,

I'm looking to expand my earbud collection. I currently have the VE Monk+, Philips SHE3800 (think these may be fake) and the Yincrow X6. Out of those three, the Yincrow X6 is my favourite. As my daily driver, I enjoy a warmer sound, with controlled bass and smooth, non harsh or sibilant treble (I'm a bit treble sensitive). I also just want to experiment, trying out different buds/sound sigs.

I was considering getting these, not sure if they are all good choices for me or if there are some that are too similar to each other:

Yiny** BK2
NICEHCK ME80
NICEHCK B40
RY4S - was considering getting the plus version although I hear the UE/HI version is better. May just ditch these tbh, as I've heard the upper mids/low treble can be a bit shouty which is putting me off.
Headroom MS16
Vido - I've heard these are the same as the Yincrow X6, but thought I would get these as a cheap beater pair for out and about. I've heard the red shell version sounds better than the blue/white, can anyone confirm?
Yincrow RW-9
QianYun Qian69 - I wanted to try these but they seem to be out of stock on Ali . Unless there is somewhere else I can buy from?
Any help/thoughts would be much appreciated, thanks in advance.


----------



## Erispedia

Hi, I’m looking for harman-neutral earbuds. Preferably not bass light since the bass in harman-neutral target is somewhat boosted. I like good slam but dislike overly bloom/warmness. My budget can extend to a few hundred dollars if it is really worth it. What are my options?


----------



## RuFrost

bar3336 said:


> I'm not watching on a laptop...watching using a good projector on a 120' screen, so i want to match the picture quality with audio quality as best i can considering the limitations of headphones in general and earbuds in specific, so what is my best earbuds choice for premium audio for tv and movies?


The best earbuds for your purpose would be smabat m1 pro or st10s,due to their acoustic system and general tuning. This acoustic system recreate the feel and experience of the full cinema-hall. 

Do not consider cheap-fi,please. Like monk+, 25,39,69,x6,vido etc. They all have lack of something which in the end of the day makes them unlistenable. Especially,if you have ability to buy good sounding earbuds. Trust me, smabats are the best for the cinema.)) especially with right foams and setting in the ear.


----------



## vetsin

bar3336 said:


> A little more expensive? They're like 300$ right? If you guys say the ry4s is good enough then great, appreciate the help


I came to this forum to get recommendation in 2018 and the RY4S was just picking up popularity. I got that and a ToneKing TO200 and I prefer the RY4S to this day. I don't know where it stands now in terms of popularity as I just logged in today after more than a year of absence but it looks like it's still loved.


----------



## vetsin

mbwilson111 said:


> I am relieved to see this thread up and running again.  This has been the thread that I check first for for a long time now.   Also it was a  favorite of  my husband @HungryPanda who, as many of you know, was taken by Covid 19 on April 15th after we had both been fighting it for 10 days.  I hope that over the coming years people will still find and appreciate his comments in here... and maybe mine too... and quite a few photos.  Please never forget him.  He gave a lot of himself here.
> 
> This is one of the best threads on headfi and has a long history.



I am truly sorry for your loss... The knowledge that you and HungryPanda shared in this thread had been very helpful when I was looking for my earbud of choice. 

Sorry if this is too late of a reply. I just logged in after more than a year. Again, thank you very much and I will keep HungryPanda in mind whenever I use the earbuds that he recommended to me.


----------



## darmanastartes

My review of the Smabat ST-10S is up on my blog: https://medium.com/bedrock-reviews/smabat-st-10s-review-b0898455e43b


----------



## baskingshark

darmanastartes said:


> My review of the Smabat ST-10S is up on my blog: https://medium.com/bedrock-reviews/smabat-st-10s-review-b0898455e43b



Nice review!

I assume this is the black silver variant that you reviewed? Do u happen to know if u got a newer version or the older version - cause it seems there is different tuning between the 2 versions, just that it's gonna be hard for the consumer to know which set the seller gives them.


----------



## darmanastartes

baskingshark said:


> Nice review!
> 
> I assume this is the black silver variant that you reviewed? Do u happen to know if u got a newer version or the older version - cause it seems there is different tuning between the 2 versions, just that it's gonna be hard for the consumer to know which set the seller gives them.


Based on the graphs I have seen of the two variants I can only assume I have the newer version.


----------



## snowmind

I recently received the EMX500 Bro, very fun and detailed, it is certainly the champion of the price range, for 6 bucks it is difficult to fight it, especially in the textured bass.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

darmanastartes said:


> My review of the Smabat ST-10S is up on my blog: https://medium.com/bedrock-reviews/smabat-st-10s-review-b0898455e43b



I sold my ST-10S Gold and also ordered a Silver try. Also, when I was green for a long time, but Gold sounded much better.


----------



## Promenadeplatz (Jun 23, 2020)

I start liking my new snow lotus 1.0 commemorative blue better than the monk+, better build quality, much better plug and cable, immersive, fuller and richer sound!! Think paid 8$ incl shipping .... Amazing value!!!!!


----------



## axhng (Jun 25, 2020)

still waiting for the NiceHCK B40 to try something with pk shell. black vido sounds warmer bass-ier than the traceless.


----------



## Borku

In 2017 I bought a pair of Nicehk graphene earbud, roughly 20 usd or so. 
I like them a lot. I use them with my phone and an HD sonata. Which are your recomentations if I wanted an upgrade from them under 50 usd? And under 100 usd? 
I use the for acoustic and vocal mainly, although I listen to a little bit of all.


----------



## Sam L

Just got my Rambo 2's in. At first listen, the bass on these things are beautiful, very fast and detailed, not to mention very present.

Anyone know what the differences are in SQ between the first Gen and 2nd Gen?


----------



## F700

Got the Smabat ST-10s Gold yesterday. My very first pair of earbuds. I had my bias about earbuds, but after having managed to get a good fit and put the foam on the buds, I plugged them to the Dethonray DTR1. Instant smile on my face, very surprised about the open sound and the pleasing tonality of these guys. Being an IEM enthusiast in the first place, my bias now have disappeared. 

I am really enjoying this set of earbuds.


----------



## jericho7

thinking to get Smabat ST-10s, any owners can confirm it can be worn cable down like usual earbuds if i get a non-earhook cable?


----------



## cqtek (Jun 25, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Just got my Rambo 2's in. At first listen, the bass on these things are beautiful, very fast and detailed, not to mention very present.
> 
> Anyone know what the differences are in SQ between the first Gen and 2nd Gen?



I have the Rambo v1 and, I guess, in a few weeks, v2 will arrive. I'll be able to comment on it then...

But I just got a trinket, which sounds pretty good: NiceHCK Traceless (red and blue).
But I expected the cable to be better...


----------



## F700

jericho7 said:


> thinking to get Smabat ST-10s, any owners can confirm it can be worn cable down like usual earbuds if i get a non-earhook cable?


Yes, I can listen to it both ways.


----------



## assassin10000

axhng said:


> still waiting for the NiceHCK B40 to try something with pk shell. black vido sounds warmer bass-ier than the traceless.



B40 while having a PK shape, is not the same as a PK shell. The B40 is 16.7mm, where as the PK is a much smaller 16.1mm.

Mx500 shells are 16.8mm fyi.


----------



## David Mitchell

In both sound and fit, the Monk+ doesn't work well for me. I've been avoiding other "Type I" shells. Somewhere hereabouts I was recommended the Edifier H185 years ago, which fits great for me (I do use stacked full and donut foams) and has better treble extension. I find it a bit light in the bass, however. I don't like the thicker mid-bass of the Monk, but I do want extension. Any suggestions for me?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

David Mitchell said:


> Any suggestions for me?



Shozy BK


----------



## FastAndClean

F700 said:


> Got the Smabat ST-10s Gold yesterday. My very first pair of earbuds. I had my bias about earbuds, but after having managed to get a good fit and put the foam on the buds, I plugged them to the Dethonray DTR1. Instant smile on my face, very surprised about the open sound and the pleasing tonality of these guys. Being an IEM enthusiast in the first place, my bias now have disappeared.
> 
> I am really enjoying this set of earbuds.


i was skeptical like you before, Ourart ACG changed it for me, never heard faster DD transducer


----------



## F700

FastAndClean said:


> i was skeptical like you before, Ourart ACG changed it for me, never heard faster DD transducer


In the rabbit hole I go...


----------



## Alex.Grimm

FastAndClean said:


> i was skeptical like you before, Ourart ACG changed it for me, never heard faster DD transducer


I like Smabat ST-10s Gold and Yincrow RW-1000 Bass Pro more than Ouart ACG and Penon BS1


----------



## David Mitchell

Alex.Grimm said:


> Shozy BK


Thanks. Worth ten times the price of the H185?

Is there a less expensive (but still worthwhile) way to try out a "Type II" shell?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

David Mitchell said:


> Thanks. Worth ten times the price of the H185?
> 
> Is there a less expensive (but still worthwhile) way to try out a "Type II" shell?



Easy to find: Qian39, VE Monk Lite, VE Zen LL, Nokia HS-23 (need recabling), NiceHCK B40;
Hard to find: Edimun, NNT Docomo (need recabling);


----------



## SenyorC

I hated earbuds and haven't tried any since, well, forever.

For some reason I ended up reading this thread and just got to the end of it when the AE sale kicked in.

I ordered a couple of cheap sets (Vido and RY45) with the hope that I will hate them and escape this rabbit hole before I get sucked in!!

(Oh, I also ordered a bunch of drivers and some shells to mess around with).


----------



## axhng

assassin10000 said:


> B40 while having a PK shape, is not the same as a PK shell. The B40 is 16.7mm, where as the PK is a much smaller 16.1mm.
> 
> Mx500 shells are 16.8mm fyi.



Oh! thanks for the info! MX500 shells has been pretty comfy for me (slightly more so than the ME80), so I guess at least the B40 should fit around the same. But so far I'm still so impressed by the ME80s, especially staging & vocals. Paid like 13USD for them, and I get just as much enjoyment out of them as my ER4XRs. :/


----------



## siderak

Backups have arrived!


----------



## assassin10000

David Mitchell said:


> Thanks. Worth ten times the price of the H185?
> 
> Is there a less expensive (but still worthwhile) way to try out a "Type II" shell?



Used to be the 16Ω diy sr2 on chitty's store on AliExpress. But looks like they're using a different shell now.


----------



## assassin10000

Just saw these while looking around, if anyone else is interested in an earpod shaped earbud.

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000086591147.html


----------



## darmanastartes (Jun 26, 2020)

jericho7 said:


> thinking to get Smabat ST-10s, any owners can confirm it can be worn cable down like usual earbuds if i get a non-earhook cable?


The stock ST-10S (silver) cable does not have earhooks.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

jericho7 said:


> thinking to get Smabat ST-10s, any owners can confirm it can be worn cable down like usual earbuds if i get a non-earhook cable?



Silver - simple quality cable non-earhook
Gold - good quality cable with earhook


----------



## David Mitchell (Jun 26, 2020)

David Mitchell said:


> In both sound and fit, the Monk+ doesn't work well for me. I've been avoiding other "Type I" shells. Somewhere hereabouts I was recommended the Edifier H185 years ago, which fits great for me (I do use stacked full and donut foams) and has better treble extension. I find it a bit light in the bass, however. I don't like the thicker mid-bass of the Monk, but I do want extension. Any suggestions for me?


Well, while I was on a different track last night, looking for a system-wide software crossfeed option, I learned about Equalizer APO. Now I have both crossfeed _and _custom EQ, which has allowed me to add a huge low-bass boost (plus a small bump around 400 Hz — funny how you notice another issue after the first is taken care of) to the H185. Now I think I may stick with them!


----------



## F700 (Jun 26, 2020)

Liking a slightly warm sound signature and needing my bass, which earbud could you recommend with a great fit for normal ears (shape and ear-canal)? Budget is elastic...


----------



## voxdub (Jun 26, 2020)

waynes world said:


> Resistance! Is! Futile!
> 
> I'm not familiar with the Traceless, so I'll be interested in how you think they compare.


They're pretty dull, basically a Vido but without bass, perhaps due to transparent shell plastics (which are gorgeous), I'll probably re-purpose the shells, there are far better options even at the low price of the Traceless.


----------



## axhng

Nicehck trio. ME80 still my favourite out of the lot in terms of sound. Really like how it presents vocals, especially female. though the MX500 shell seems like a more stable fit for me overall.


----------



## assassin10000

Anybody in the U.S. got a pair of black silicone rings for the ve monk earbuds they don't want?

I could order the ve ex pack but I don't want to wait two months if I don't have to.


----------



## chinmie

David Mitchell said:


> Thanks. Worth ten times the price of the H185?



for me, no. in fact i prefer the H185 more


----------



## voxdub

Been listening to the Yincrow RW-9 for the past couple of days, ordered solely because of recent comments on this thread. I'd rate them right up at the top of budget buds alongside the RY4S UE. They have a less pronounced v shape than the RY4S and lack some of airyness that brings. But what they do bring is good presentation across the range with a full on sound which avoids congestion. The bass is the best I've heard on a budget bud, listening to Portishead there's fantastic low end impact whilst Beth's voice remains beautifully up front and Bob Marley & The Wailers are an absolute treat through these buds. Really tempted to see what the RW1000 bass version are like now.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

voxdub said:


> Really tempted to see what the RW1000 bass version are like now.



Have bass, but less than RW-9, more bright with width scene


----------



## Sam L (Jun 27, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Anybody in the U.S. got a pair of black silicone rings for the ve monk earbuds they don't want?
> 
> I could order the ve ex pack but I don't want to wait two months if I don't have to.


Do they sell those silicone rings separately from the pack?

Edit: nm found this
#Aliexpress US $4.30  14%OFF | 10 pcs Earphone ear pads Rubber ring of headset size 15.15mm
https://a.aliexpress.com/_dXEEjZS


----------



## voxdub

Got bored, the RW-9 drivers are now in the Traceless shells with the branding removed. The cable holes are really small on the Traceless shell at the inner part, so I couldn't use the original cable, thought I may as well colour code everything.


----------



## Sam L

Do any of you find that some cables are too heavy for use with earbuds?


----------



## Sam L

Finally, after a 2 month wait!


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Sam L said:


> Do any of you find that some cables are too heavy for use with earbuds?


Yes,  thick veins with heavy splitter


----------



## RikudouGoku

Are there any difference between the NiceHCK MX500 and the B40? Besides the shell difference of course. What are your opinion on the MX500? They are amazing to me.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Well here is my review on the NiceHCK DIY MX500: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-diy-mx500.24457/reviews#item-review-23882

makes moondrop look like an overpriced brand...


----------



## Nec3

RikudouGoku said:


> Are there any difference between the NiceHCK MX500 and the B40? Besides the shell difference of course. What are your opinion on the MX500? They are amazing to me.



Heh, that's funny, I was actually looking to get a pair of earbuds and was looking at the Nicehck MX500 after coming from the Nicehck b40. I should have listened to people and got two pairs. One for work and one for home.

I've actually been looking at the Moondrop Chaconne too, however I can't pull the trigger on it because I am very confident there lies diminishing returns especially when it comes to earbuds. My only problem is that I actually dislike headphones, a lot! I find 250+ grams an excessive weight for my neck and replacing earbud foams every other week is way more hygienic than replacing velour earpads that can cost $60. Specifically talking about the Sennheiser HD600 here. This is the reason I am able to justify the cost of the Moondrop Chaconne so I don't really need to use headphones anymore.

Although I'm kind of hoping someone will point me in the right direction as it seems the Chaconne doesn't look like it is a worthwhile purchase, I wish I had the time to sift through the thousands of information users post on this thread. 
___

Any recommendations for an upgrade from the Nicehck B40 or should I just buy another pair? 
- My budget is $300
- I intend to drive the earphones out of an ODAC/O2
- The type of sound profiles I enjoy reside in the headgear I use in my signature
- I listen to *all* music except for screamo/death metal/mumble rap


----------



## assassin10000 (Jun 28, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Do they sell those silicone rings separately from the pack?
> 
> Edit: nm found this
> #Aliexpress US $4.30  14%OFF | 10 pcs Earphone ear pads Rubber ring of headset size 15.15mm
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_dXEEjZS



VE doesn't. Wish shipping wasn't another $7 lol. Thanks for trying.



Sam L said:


> Do any of you find that some cables are too heavy for use with earbuds?



Yes. Also why I prefer to wear over ear.



Nec3 said:


> Heh, that's funny, I was actually looking to get a pair of earbuds and was looking at the Nicehck MX500 after coming from the Nicehck b40. I should have listened to people and got two pairs. One for work and one for home.
> 
> I've actually been looking at the Moondrop Chaconne too, however I can't pull the trigger on it because I am very confident there lies diminishing returns especially when it comes to earbuds. My only problem is that I actually dislike headphones, a lot! I find 250+ grams an excessive weight for my neck and replacing earbud foams every other week is way more hygienic than replacing velour earpads that can cost $60. Specifically talking about the Sennheiser HD600 here. This is the reason I am able to justify the cost of the Moondrop Chaconne so I don't really need to use headphones anymore.
> 
> ...



ST-10S gold (150Ω) maybe? See here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3174#post-15573641

If you want a more neutral sound then the original ST-10, every now and then a pair will be FS (check the FS forum).


----------



## Nec3

assassin10000 said:


> ST-10S gold (150Ω) maybe? See here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3174#post-15573641
> 
> If you want a more neutral sound then the original ST-10, every now and then a pair will be FS (check the FS forum).



Thanks assassin! I'll add these to my cart and definitely consider them.
By the way is there a general preference towards buying earphones from hifigo or aliexpress?


----------



## Sam L

Nec3 said:


> Heh, that's funny, I was actually looking to get a pair of earbuds and was looking at the Nicehck MX500 after coming from the Nicehck b40. I should have listened to people and got two pairs. One for work and one for home.
> 
> I've actually been looking at the Moondrop Chaconne too, however I can't pull the trigger on it because I am very confident there lies diminishing returns especially when it comes to earbuds. My only problem is that I actually dislike headphones, a lot! I find 250+ grams an excessive weight for my neck and replacing earbud foams every other week is way more hygienic than replacing velour earpads that can cost $60. Specifically talking about the Sennheiser HD600 here. This is the reason I am able to justify the cost of the Moondrop Chaconne so I don't really need to use headphones anymore.
> 
> ...


I was pondering a chaconne purchase a couple months ago when I stumbled on the earbuds rabbit hole. 

In the end I didn't pull the trigger for the following reasons:
1. I refuse to buy any earphone / earbud that does not have a detachable cable (preferably 2 pin) priced over $150.

2. I initially thought the jump to the chaconne meant endgame territory. While that might be true, I ended up pulling the trigger on the Rambo 2 when penon was running a free isn cable deal. And since I needed a mmcx cable, I had no hesitation getting the Rambo 2. I really couldn't find any reviews for the second iteration. It looks like all the reviews are for the older nondetachable Rambo I. I get my smabat black/silvers tomorrow. I think between that and these Rambo 2's, I can confidently proclaim that earbud endgame sound quality can be had for 70-120 usd.


----------



## Sam L

What do you get with the DIY earbuds on aliexpress? Just the earbuds, less cable? Or all the parts for a fully working set after soldering parts together?

Ie:
#Aliexpress US $23.75  5%OFF | DIY pk1 earphone 150ohms transparent film vocal earphone (Selling at a loss)
https://a.aliexpress.com/_d8R7Iv2


----------



## Sam L

assassin10000 said:


> VE doesn't. Wish shipping wasn't another $7 lol. Thanks for trying.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You wear your earbuds over ear like this?


----------



## baskingshark

Nec3 said:


> Thanks assassin! I'll add these to my cart and definitely consider them.
> By the way is there a general preference towards buying earphones from hifigo or aliexpress?



I have bought multiple times from both shops:

Pros of Aliexpress:
- generally cheaper than Hifigo for equivalent gear
- more selection
- more frequent sales/coupons available
- multiple shops to choose from -> just choose a shop that is not brand new and has good reviews (generally I look for shops > 97% rating)
- some shops give free shipping (though see the problems with delivery below under cons for free shipping)
- Aliexpress keeps money in escrow until buyer confirms he/she receives a satisfactory product

Cons of Aliexpress:
- have bad apple shops that sometimes don't deliver or give defective products; returning gear to China is a pain, sometimes the return costs are as much as the gear u bought
- during the last few weeks, deliveries have been slow/cancelled cause of covid, I had 3 out of 10 purchases from March/April sent back to seller as the gear couldn't find its way onto a plane due to the drastic cut in flights

Hifigo has good communication and so far I've gotten everything I bought from them within 2 weeks or so. Their gear is more expensive as above, and they recently cancelled their free shipping service (as there were other customers who complained they didn't get their stuff via the promised time frames via free shipping). So they have resorted to using an expediated shipping service at ~ $15 USD recently IIRC. 

Generally if I can wait and I wanna save some costs via free shipping, I'll buy on Aliexpress. Though there's a chance the gear doesn't come or takes ages to, so YMMV.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jun 28, 2020)

Made some TWS earbuds. 



More details/info here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/page-130#post-15707637




Nec3 said:


> Thanks assassin! I'll add these to my cart and definitely consider them.
> By the way is there a general preference towards buying earphones from hifigo or aliexpress?



I've never used hifigo. Use AliExpress all the time.

Except for a few recent lost packages (covid delay related) it's been relatively painless. I've had a few other items either bad or not show up, but the AE refund process has worked for me (so far).



Sam L said:


> I was pondering a chaconne purchase a couple months ago when I stumbled on the earbuds rabbit hole.
> 
> In the end I didn't pull the trigger for the following reasons:
> 1. I refuse to buy any earphone / earbud that does not have a detachable cable (preferably 2 pin) priced over $150.
> ...



Most detachable cable earbuds are MMCX.

I think Rose (Masya 1 & 2, Maria) are one of the few manufacturers that use 2-pin. Fit didn't appeal to me on them.



Sam L said:


> What do you get with the DIY earbuds on aliexpress? Just the earbuds, less cable? Or all the parts for a fully working set after soldering parts together?
> 
> Ie:
> #Aliexpress US $23.75  5%OFF | DIY pk1 earphone 150ohms transparent film vocal earphone (Selling at a loss)
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_d8R7Iv2



Those are complete units, DIY built by the store selling them.



Sam L said:


> You wear your earbuds over ear like this?



Exactly.

Often with my BT20S, that I modified.


----------



## CRML (Jul 25, 2020)

My SenferPT15 Finally Arrived,
I Was Expecting To Be Way More Bright When Its Acctually Very Neutral...Present Bass N SubBass,Detailed Treble With Barelly No Piercing Feel N Warm/Detailed Vocals With Some Bright On It N Very Clear/Extended Trebles...Its Problity The Second Version With More Balanced Timbre But Still Love Them,Especially Due Tô Its Expansive Sound Stage,They Sound Beautiful...I Recomend.


----------



## SweetEars

1clearhead said:


> I just ordered the MEMT's latest earbuds, the *MEMT R7* earbud!
> 
> They've been getting rave reviews here in China! So, I've got to check what's the rave all about!
> 
> ...


give us a review thanks


----------



## Promenadeplatz

baskingshark said:


> I have bought multiple times from both shops:
> 
> Pros of AliExpress:
> - generally cheaper than Hifigo for equivalent gear
> ...


Agreed. Aliexpress is only good for items around US$ 5 or so.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Well...diminishing return hit me like a truck after going from the NiceHCK DIY MX500 to the Turandot. The SQ definitely is better but no where near what I was hopping with the price increase and it seems that earbuds are physically unable to rumble anywhere near what iems are capable of.

I will definitely review this but was honestly expecting more. 

(those 2 last pictures were taken with a macro lens for my LG G7 and the scratches are not visible to my naked eye.)


----------



## RikudouGoku

Silver cable is from the NiceHCK DIY MX500 and the gold is the DQSM Turandot. The Turandot is just a bit thicker, not enough to compensate for the weight difference. I am definitely not taking the Turandot outside of my house.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

RikudouGoku said:


> Well...diminishing return hit me like a truck after going from the NiceHCK DIY MX500 to the Turandot. The SQ definitely is better but no where near what I was hopping with the price increase and it seems that earbuds are physically unable to rumble anywhere near what iems are capable of.


put on thick foams


----------



## RikudouGoku

Alex.Grimm said:


> put on thick foams


I put on 2 of the Full foams that came with it, certainly helped. Not sure if I have any full foams that is considered thick. (only have stock foams.)


----------



## Sam L

jenkinsontherun said:


> Monk lite 120 ohm without foams sounds like hd600, tonally.


Reading through the thread and just saw this. Really? I have to pick up a pair. Thx


----------



## waynes world

Sam L said:


> Reading through the thread and just saw this. Really? I have to pick up a pair. Thx



This prompted me to break out my 120's (it's been a while). I can't compare to the hd600's, but with some amping, and with a bit of bass boost, they really do sound very good.


----------



## Sam L

snip3r77 said:


> Got this for the mic ( WFH) , anyone tried this?


Bump. Wondering if anyone has tried this earbud?


----------



## Danneq

RikudouGoku said:


> Well...diminishing return hit me like a truck after going from the NiceHCK DIY MX500 to the Turandot. The SQ definitely is better but no where near what I was hopping with the price increase and it seems that earbuds are physically unable to rumble anywhere near what iems are capable of.
> 
> I will definitely review this but was honestly expecting more.
> 
> (those 2 last pictures were taken with a macro lens for my LG G7 and the scratches are not visible to my naked eye.)




How much did you pay in fees and import taxes?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Danneq said:


> How much did you pay in fees and import taxes?


I PM u the details.


----------



## snowmind (Jun 30, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Bump. Wondering if anyone has tried this earbud?



I have this bud, it arrived a month ago. Its signature is flat with an elevation in the highs, it does not have much sub bass. The recovery of the details and the sound stage are good. The mids are good. It is in the opposite direction compared to the EMX500 and Vido, for example.

The next discovery will be the Fengru TC200: https://nobsaudiophile.wordpress.co...x985-incredible-budget-earbuds-emx500-killer/


----------



## Sam L

1clearhead said:


> I just ordered the MEMT's latest earbuds, the *MEMT R7* earbud!
> 
> They've been getting rave reviews here in China! So, I've got to check what's the rave all about!
> 
> ...


Nothing coming up on google or aliexpress yet - just references to the iem R7. 

I'm guessing it's only on taobao?


----------



## Nec3

Anyone familiar with the Fiio EM3S? The lower mids are toned down but the upper mids are amazingly clear and has a big soundstage which results in a big and airy soundstage. The only thing that brings all back together is a flaw in the earbuds and it's the upper bass that kind of bleeds in that I wish wasn't there.The only partial solution is to actually use the EM3S without foams

A user included these earbuds on the side as a gift, however my problem with the EM3Sis that the cable quality sucks and the right channel is quieter than the left. Any alternatives to the EM3S? I've found the Remax RM-303 but in-line mics are a big no no in my book.


----------



## CRML

RikudouGoku said:


> Well...diminishing return hit me like a truck after going from the NiceHCK DIY MX500 to the Turandot. The SQ definitely is better but no where near what I was hopping with the price increase and it seems that earbuds are physically unable to rumble anywhere near what iems are capable of.
> 
> I will definitely review this but was honestly expecting more.
> 
> (those 2 last pictures were taken with a macro lens for my LG G7 and the scratches are not visible to my naked eye.)



Design Looks Amazin',How They Sound Compared To SenferPT15 ???...I Know Its Way More Expensive.


----------



## RikudouGoku

CRML said:


> Design Looks Amazin',How They Sound Compared To SenferPT15 ???...I Know Its Way More Expensive.


No idea, I don't have the pt15.


----------



## bystander

Nec3 said:


> Anyone familiar with the Fiio EM3S? The lower mids are toned down but the upper mids are amazingly clear and has a big soundstage which results in a big and airy soundstage. The only thing that brings all back together is a flaw in the earbuds and it's the upper bass that kind of bleeds in that I wish wasn't there.The only partial solution is to actually use the EM3S without foams
> 
> A user included these earbuds on the side as a gift, however my problem with the EM3Sis that the cable quality sucks and the right channel is quieter than the left. Any alternatives to the EM3S? I've found the Remax RM-303 but in-line mics are a big no no in my book.


I will be familiar with EM3K (no mic version) very soon since they come as a gift with M3 Pro player (if it will actually arrive of course). Can't say I expect much because I have a romance with Faaeal earbuds now.


----------



## waynes world

snowmind said:


> The next discovery will be the Fengru TC200: https://nobsaudiophile.wordpress.co...x985-incredible-budget-earbuds-emx500-killer/



Nice review. Awesome budget bud!


----------



## superuser1

CRML said:


> Design Looks Amazin', how They Sound Compared To SenferPT15 ???...I Know Its Way More Expensive.


I feel NickHCK B40 sounds better than the PT15. It has clearer imaging across the spectrum.


----------



## siderak

superuser1 said:


> I feel NickHCK B40 sounds better than the PT15. It has clearer imaging across the spectrum.


I couldn’t agree more. 
I’m so impressed with the B40’s, I almost feel actual guilt because they’re only $10.
Maybe they aren’t as resolving as some of my top end buds but d@mn if they’re not satisfying.


----------



## pfloyd

siderak said:


> I couldn’t agree more.
> I’m so impressed with the B40’s, I almost feel actual guilt because they’re only $10.
> Maybe they aren’t as resolving as some of my top end buds but d@mn if they’re not satisfying.


I agree as well. Only buds I like better than the b40s are my Smabot M1 pros, but they cost 6 times more.


----------



## Sam L

pfloyd said:


> I agree as well. Only buds I like better than the b40s are my Smabot M1 pros, but they cost 6 times more.


Ordered!


----------



## FireHotStickies

RikudouGoku said:


> Well here is my review on the NiceHCK DIY MX500: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-diy-mx500.24457/reviews#item-review-23882
> 
> makes moondrop look like an overpriced brand...



Very good review! Is this where you purchased them from? Thinking of picking up a pair myself.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


----------



## RikudouGoku

FireHotStickies said:


> Very good review! Is this where you purchased them from? Thinking of picking up a pair myself.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


Thanks bro, that is correct I picked the "black silver MX500" version if that makes any difference lol.


----------



## baskingshark

A few Vidos I purchased during the Aliexpress sale (for $1.90 each) have arrived, with free shipping to boot. Ridiculous price to performance ratio for the cost!! How do these CHIFI manufacturers even break even??!


----------



## Alex.Grimm

baskingshark said:


> A few Vidos I purchased during the Aliexpress sale (for $1.90 each) have arrived, with free shipping to boot. Ridiculous price to performance ratio for the cost!! How do these CHIFI manufacturers even break even??!



I bought yesterday for a  $1.36  for training in soldering.


----------



## digititus (Jul 3, 2020)

My Yincrow RW-9's arrived. First impressions - these have no right to sound so good for the $16 I paid. Absolute steal.

Update: I have ordered a pair for each member of the family


----------



## snowmind

digititus said:


> My Yincrow RW-9's arrived. First impressions - these have no right to sound so good for the $16 I paid. Absolute steal.



Low-cost models are real killers, the benefit you get in exchange for the money is very high.


----------



## emusic13

Turandot finally arrived. A bit tackier looking than I would like but its the sound that matters right? It sounds great!


----------



## Sam L

Been really enjoying the Rambo 2's and Smabat ST-10 black/silver. They actually share a lot of similarities -- good bass and great extension in the highs, very detailed.The Smabats have more bass than the Rambo 2's but not significantly more. I actually prefer the Rambo 2's bass, faster and cleaner bass than the Smabat. The rambos also have a slight bump in the 250-500hz range, compared to the Smabats (2dB-ish). The Rambo's also have a bit more presence in the brilliance range.

Not sure what I prefer more. They are both excellent purchases, but if I had to choose one, at this point, I'd pick the Rambo 2's because they are cheaper.


----------



## bystander

emusic13 said:


> Turandot finally arrived. A bit tackier looking than I would like but its the sound that matters right? It sounds great!


They really nailed it with the design. Shower head and a golden cable create a unique combination.


----------



## baskingshark

emusic13 said:


> Turandot finally arrived. A bit tackier looking than I would like but its the sound that matters right? It sounds great!



They look like golden sunflowers!


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Sam L said:


> Been really enjoying the Rambo 2's and Smabat ST-10 black/silver. They actually share a lot of similarities -- good bass and great extension in the highs, very detailed.The Smabats have more bass than the Rambo 2's but not significantly more. I actually prefer the Rambo 2's bass, faster and cleaner bass than the Smabat. The rambos also have a slight bump in the 250-500hz range, compared to the Smabats (2dB-ish). The Rambo's also have a bit more presence in the brilliance range.
> 
> Not sure what I prefer more. They are both excellent purchases, but if I had to choose one, at this point, I'd pick the Rambo 2's because they are cheaper.


Thanks for review, I had Smabat's (green, silver, gold) Gold was better for me (but they are not perfect for me, a very cold middle). Silver and green I did not like at all. Yincrow RW-1000 Bass Pro I liked it, but their drawback is still not a lot of bass for the bass pro version, but the scene is wide and clean. I now want to try now Rambo II and Turandot.


----------



## waynes world

digititus said:


> My Yincrow RW-9's arrived. First impressions - these have no right to sound so good for the $16 I paid. Absolute steal.
> 
> Update: I have ordered a pair for each member of the family



+100. I love their sound signature, and am quite impressed with the bass. Definitely puts a smile on my face


----------



## Sam L

anyone know if the rose masya mk2 have been discontinued?


----------



## Carrow

Sam L said:


> anyone know if the rose masya mk2 have been discontinued?



Don't know about that but it's no longer listed at Penon Audio.


----------



## emusic13

Alex.Grimm said:


> Thanks for review, I had Smabat's (green, silver, gold) Gold was better for me (but they are not perfect for me, a very cold middle). Silver and green I did not like at all. Yincrow RW-1000 Bass Pro I liked it, but their drawback is still not a lot of bass for the bass pro version, but the scene is wide and clean. I now want to try now Rambo II and Turandot.


Definitely try the Turandot. It sounds so good out of balanced output. It's the first earbud I've heard where the soundstage stood out to me immediately on first listen


----------



## Sam L (Jul 5, 2020)

my quick take on the Yuin PK2...

Out of the box, they sound really messy -- the bass and mids are a real mess. But they EQ really well and after doing so, they are fantastic!




Funny thing is even with the drop in bass and lower mids, the low end still sounds strong. Now the PK2's sound great, with good detail.

**edit: this is on a LG V60. For Android phones with no built in EQ, I recommend PowerEQ in the play store.


----------



## chinmie

Sam L said:


> my quick take on the Yuin PK2...
> 
> Out of the box, they sound really messy -- the bass and mids are a real mess. But they EQ really well and after doing so, they are fantastic!
> 
> ...



do you use foams on your PK2? just a suggestion, seeing your EQ setting, you could try removing the foams and using it bare. it might give closer sound to your EQ adjustment


----------



## Sam L

chinmie said:


> do you use foams on your PK2? just a suggestion, seeing your EQ setting, you could try removing the foams and using it bare. it might give closer sound to your EQ adjustment


Sadly, I need the foams to keep the smaller drivers in place.


----------



## Sunstealer

Sam L said:


> Sadly, I need the foams to keep the smaller drivers in place.


I removed the rectangular vent foams inside my NiceHCK B40 just to see what would change and the bass is reduced with increased airiness (I put them back). This might help with your low-end muddiness.

You also said they were "out of the box"......maybe allow some burn-in time?


----------



## Sam L

I've been pondering how to cheaply couple my calibrated mic to measure earbuds.

I asked awhile back but got no response, so I'll post this again in case it catches someone's eye willing to share thoughts on diy graphing solutions for ear buds. 

Just ordered this:
https://yourdesignmedical.com/produ..._content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic


----------



## Qualcheduno

Hi everyone, sorry to bother you, but I need your advice: I'm searching for a pair of earbuds for a friend of mine. What I'm searching for is something that is:
-easy to drive (she will drive them with an IPhone)
-cable down (she wears glasses)
-good mids/vocals but with enough bass to give the music proper "weight" and authority (think of moondrop starfield or senn's hd650)
-doesn't get too muddy with fast and complex music (she listens to prog metal among the other things)
-around 30-40€ shipped
-good build quality (she will use them when walking around)
Bonus/nice to have but not necessary
-detachable cable
-available on amazon or on a site with relatively fast shipping (eg penon)

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Qualcheduno said:


> Hi everyone, sorry to bother you, but I need your advice: I'm searching for a pair of earbuds for a friend of mine.



Willsound MK32


----------



## Sam L

Alex.Grimm said:


> Willsound MK32


Not seeing willsound on aliexpress anymore.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Sam L said:


> Not seeing willsound on aliexpress anymore.


This is not China this is Indonesia.  You need to write on facebook to Willsound message


----------



## DBaldock9

Qualcheduno said:


> Hi everyone, sorry to bother you, but I need your advice: I'm searching for a pair of earbuds for a friend of mine. What I'm searching for is something that is:
> -easy to drive (she will drive them with an IPhone)
> -cable down (she wears glasses)
> -good mids/vocals but with enough bass to give the music proper "weight" and authority (think of moondrop starfield or senn's hd650)
> ...



You are talking about an iPhone with a 3.5mm audio jack, right?
.
Penon sells the "Earbuds Anonymous" (Facebook group) model, which sounds good.
.
https://penonaudio.com/earbuds-anonymous.html
.
As their web page says, the listed price ($50) is "Informal", and that you can get the reduced price by joining the EA Facebook group.
When I bought mine, the price was $25, when using the "Discount Code" mentioned on the group.
They may be a bit more expensive now.


----------



## baskingshark

Qualcheduno said:


> Hi everyone, sorry to bother you, but I need your advice: I'm searching for a pair of earbuds for a friend of mine. What I'm searching for is something that is:
> -easy to drive (she will drive them with an IPhone)
> -cable down (she wears glasses)
> -good mids/vocals but with enough bass to give the music proper "weight" and authority (think of moondrop starfield or senn's hd650)
> ...



Check out the BK2. It is a bit bass lite for me (I'm a basshead), but it has above average technicalities, is easy to drive, balanced tuning, has good timbre, is non fatiguing and has detachable cable to boot, about $20ish USD.

Though in general, I wouldn't use a earbud for walking about cause they have poor isolation compared to IEMs and bass is usually the first frequencies lost when isolation is bad in an external environment.


----------



## siderak

I was considering selling my Simphonio Dragon 2+ and so glad I didn’t. Decided to try them out of my new fiio btr5 balanced. They’re killer! Fantastic soundstage. They sound so layered and natural. Soooo much better than out of the radsone es100. 
bass and extension is awesome.mids are detailed. Wow.


----------



## chinmie

siderak said:


> I was considering selling my Simphonio Dragon 2+ and so glad I didn’t. Decided to try them out of my new fiio btr5 balanced. They’re killer! Fantastic soundstage. They sound so layered and natural. Soooo much better than out of the radsone es100.
> bass and extension is awesome.mids are detailed. Wow.



glad you didn't. the Dragon 2+ is still a hard beat even in the headphone and IEM realms. haven't heard a substitute that's comparable, let alonr in the cheaper price


----------



## Qualcheduno

Alex.Grimm said:


> This is not China this is Indonesia.  You need to write on facebook to Willsound message





DBaldock9 said:


> You are talking about an iPhone with a 3.5mm audio jack, right?
> .
> Penon sells the "Earbuds Anonymous" (Facebook group) model, which sounds good.
> .
> ...


Thanks, but I don't have a Facebook account, and I don't think I'll make one only to buy a pair of earbuds.


baskingshark said:


> Check out the BK2. It is a bit bass lite for me (I'm a basshead), but it has above average technicalities, is easy to drive, balanced tuning, has good timbre, is non fatiguing and has detachable cable to boot, about $20ish USD.
> 
> Though in general, I wouldn't use a earbud for walking about cause they have poor isolation compared to IEMs and bass is usually the first frequencies lost when isolation is bad in an external environment.


She wants to be aware of her surroundings, and she's one of those people that can't wear iems. So, to compensate I should go for some bassy buds like the HE150 pro?


----------



## KevDzn

Qualcheduno said:


> Thanks, but I don't have a Facebook account, and I don't think I'll make one only to buy a pair of earbuds.



You can also get the Willsound buds from
http://www.rholupat.com/


----------



## baskingshark

Qualcheduno said:


> Thanks, but I don't have a Facebook account, and I don't think I'll make one only to buy a pair of earbuds.
> She wants to be aware of her surroundings, and she's one of those people that can't wear iems. So, to compensate I should go for some bassy buds like the HE150 pro?



Hmm, I guess if she can't wear IEMs, then a closed back headphone may be another option.

I find that using buds outside in transit may not be safe for hearing health long term as one tends to jack up the volume to overcome the external noise, plus bass is lost, so YMMV. HE 150 Pro is a possibility but it is quite power hungry, I can't drive it satisfactorily with a low end smartphone. The HE150 Pro cable is also thin and non detachable, I'm really afraid it wouldn't last long when bringing it out and accidentally tugging on the cable.


----------



## assassin10000

Qualcheduno said:


> Hi everyone, sorry to bother you, but I need your advice: I'm searching for a pair of earbuds for a friend of mine. What I'm searching for is something that is:
> -easy to drive (she will drive them with an IPhone)
> -cable down (she wears glasses)
> -good mids/vocals but with enough bass to give the music proper "weight" and authority (think of moondrop starfield or senn's hd650)
> ...



If she has smaller ears, something with 14.8mm drivers and the smaller 16.1mm covers would be worth looking into. IE: most PK shell shaped buds, the exception being the B40 at 16.7mm.

A bit out of budget (unless on sale) the Smabat M1 Pro may be worth a look.


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> Hmm, I guess if she can't wear IEMs, then a closed back headphone may be another option.
> 
> I find that using buds outside in transit may not be safe for hearing health long term as one tends to jack up the volume to overcome the external noise, plus bass is lost, so YMMV. HE 150 Pro is a possibility but it is quite power hungry, I can't drive it satisfactorily with a low end smartphone. The HE150 Pro cable is also thin and non detachable, I'm really afraid it wouldn't last long when bringing it out and accidentally tugging on the cable.


You’re absolutely right when you talk about wearing "flat head" earbuds outside where the noise is too loud. Due to the mixing of external sound, in most cases, we have to amplify the sound a lot, which creates big problems.
HE150Pro is a great model but this is the first model where the original HE150 (MX500) for me has better SQ. 
Regardless of the different shells, probably is the same driver but the front cover is also different and cable which changes the sound for sure.
Too bad they are right now out of stock


----------



## snowmind

I would like to see Willsound reaching a new level, making its products available on Shopee / Aliexpress. They are already known enough on the scene, there is a demand for that to happen. It seems very amateurish to buy by message via Facebook without the security and support of a professional sales platform. But he certainly takes it just as a hobby, not caring about low sales revenue.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Jul 6, 2020)

snowmind said:


> I would like to see Willsound reaching a new level, making its products available on Shopee / Aliexpress. They are already known enough on the scene, there is a demand for that to happen. It seems very amateurish to buy by message via Facebook without the security and support of a professional sales platform. But he certainly takes it just as a hobby, not caring about low sales revenue.


Shopee: https://shopee.co.id/will_sound
https://shopee.co.id/yonhe8
You can buy from the international Indonesian intermediary/reseller http://rholupat.com with a small margin in price or buy it personally from the manufacturer Willy on Facebook/Instagram, where you can buy versions of MMCX or with any available cable. Also agree on a discount if you take more units of goods. Delivery protection is in PayPal in both cases. Also for any quality problems, you can contact the intermediary or the manufacturer, depending on whom you bought, personally on Facebook and they will return the money to you or offer something in return. During a pandemic, some types of cheap delivery from Indonesia may not work, only expensive.


----------



## NStef

I contacted and bought MK32 earbud from Willsound via e-mail.  Used paypal for payment.  Shipment with tracking number and the whole process took less than two weeks.  Now this was in Feb. before the whole world went nuts, so who can say what ship time is now.

I was very happy with the process and I am happy with the product.  Just my two cents.


----------



## chinmie

snowmind said:


> I would like to see Willsound reaching a new level, making its products available on Shopee / Aliexpress. They are already known enough on the scene, there is a demand for that to happen. It seems very amateurish to buy by message via Facebook without the security and support of a professional sales platform. But he certainly takes it just as a hobby, not caring about low sales revenue.



he's from Indonesia, and a one man company, so he's doing everything on his own. you can purchase it from rholupat.com like @KevDzn  suggested, or you can PM him here @WillSound  if you want to talk to him directly.


----------



## snowmind

In https://shopee.com.br/, the local version of my region (Brazil), there are no products available and it is also not possible through Aliexpress, as already mentioned. I have credits there and would like to take advantage of them. But I understand that there are many other ways to buy, they are just not as accessible for my location, especially now that the entire supply chain has been affected by the virus.


----------



## jibberish

I purchased a set of Willsound buds here: http://www.rholupat.com/willsound-buds/willsound-mk32.html


----------



## Alex.Grimm

jibberish said:


> I purchased a set of Willsound buds here



Willsound MK32 have 3 or 2 different tuning, versions released until 2019 and from 2020. I had all, but I like the freshest.


----------



## cenizas

#Aliexpress US $15.79 21%OFF | FENGRU Diy White lotus S300 In Ear Earphone 300ohm High Impedance 300 Ohm Earbud Earplugs HIFI Earbud Vocal Earbuds
https://a.aliexpress.com/_dZ74jk4

So I decided to give these a try, considering how cheap they are. Managed to get them for about 11usd from shopee, but even at the aliexpress price I'm pretty sure these are the cheapest 300ohm buds you can get. I honestly have no idea how they do it, wouldn't even be surprised if it's just a serial resistor with a lower impedance driver, either way, #justchinathings. Was half expecting it to be a dud, but so far so good, pretty impressed, very mid centric sound but it's mid centric done well. Will post further impressions after burning in and will compare them to the k's 300 and ty hi-z 314 300ohm as well.


----------



## KokushiTsumo (Jul 7, 2020)

Hiya, dropping by the thread to ask what the generally recommended earbuds around 50eur are. Mostly listen to everything and appreciate decent bass. Been eyeing the HIFI BOY Dream on penon audio (price was dropped below 50, thats why I'm considering them). Any others I should look at? Removable cables aren't a must, but they'd be welcome 

Forgot to mention, but I currently own the Moondrop Shiroyukis.


----------



## bystander

Received Faaeal Datura-X. They sound horribly harsh. Snow Lotus is much much better.
Also complementary FiiO EM3K. Better than expected, better than Datura for sure but a bit muddy. Very big soundstage. Sometimes the sound is telephonic kinda.
Won't touch both of them without an emergency.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Got DQSM Turandot and Ocean Pearl OP-139, both pleased with their sound.



Spoiler















Spoiler


----------



## robar

Alex.Grimm said:


> Got DQSM Turandot and Ocean Pearl OP-139, both pleased with their sound.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm really interested in the Ocean Pearl, your personal impressions would be greatly appreciated


----------



## Sam L

Alex.Grimm said:


> Got DQSM Turandot and Ocean Pearl OP-139, both pleased with their sound.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


kinda nutty... such a contrast in price points... only in the world of earbuds.


----------



## Saoshyant

It's good to see that the Turandot is doing so well lately as far as recommendations.  I wouldn't mind giving it a try one day, but with everything I have it'd most likely end up being redundant.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

robar said:


> I'm really interested in the Ocean Pearl, your personal impressions would be greatly appreciated


I could compare it with Yincrow RW9, but the Ocean Pearl has a completely different sound, cleaner and brighter, but with good bass, it most likely looks like an improvement Qian25 maybe.


----------



## vygas

Two of my most recent pickups, the OP139 and what I am assuming is the budget version of the Shozy XB. First impressions of both of them were good, hopefully they both get even better the more time I spend with them.


----------



## cqtek

Hello, everyone.
I hope you're all in good health, these are bad times...
Today I want to share my humble opinion about the Smabat ST-10S Silver.
Let's see what you think.

Thanks for reading!!!

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-st-10s.24278/reviews#item-review-23928


----------



## gooeyrich

Does anyone have familiarity/feedback on Pioneer's offerings?


----------



## jasonhpchu

Anyone knows if there'll be more Elibuds SABIA in the future?
Out of all my buds, I like these the best.
Or at least any alternatives that's similar?  I like that it has decent bass, and it comes with microphone.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

jasonhpchu said:


> Anyone knows if there'll be more Elibuds SABIA in the future?
> Out of all my buds, I like these the best.
> Or at least any alternatives that's similar?  I like that it has decent bass, and it comes with microphone.


Yes,  actually they (Eli audio) currently preparing for " Mid End " and "High End" Earbuds in Future. Sorry, they can't spill out the detail for now for them next project.
Indonesians love bass earbuds, here are some popular brands:
Willsound


Spoiler



https://www.facebook.com/WillSound-355453261556612/
https://www.instagram.com/willsoundaudio/


Qlabs


Spoiler



https://www.facebook.com/QlabsIndonesia/
https://www.instagram.com/qlabsindonesia/


ABnormal Sound


Spoiler



https://www.facebook.com/abnormalsoundlabs/
https://www.instagram.com/abnormal.labs/


RAW


Spoiler



https://www.facebook.com/paupau.james
https://www.instagram.com/rawaudio9/


Avanced Plus 


Spoiler



https://www.facebook.com/wilissuprianto


Edgun [EarC]


Spoiler



https://www.facebook.com/rudi.hirarki


69 Audio Jiwa 


Spoiler



https://www.facebook.com/prayoga.hadiant



also more expensive models:
Crow Audio


Spoiler



https://www.facebook.com/CrowsDen/


Cypherus Audio


Spoiler



https://www.cypherusaudio.com/
https://www.facebook.com/CypherusAudio/
https://www.instagram.com/cypherus18/



there is still one of the inexpensive vocals indicative:
Kanzenoka Audio


Spoiler



https://www.facebook.com/sugeng.kanzenoka



There is also an international store in which there may be different models of Indonesian earbuds, you can also discuss in PM, not only in this store, but also in the manufacturers themselves regarding delivery


Spoiler



http://www.rholupat.com/
https://www.facebook.com/rholupat09/
https://www.instagram.com/rholupat.indonesia/
https://www.facebook.com/adhifebrian.wahyudi


----------



## RikudouGoku

FAAEAL Iris CE: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/faaeal-iris.24482/reviews#item-review-23938

Grade A+


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> FAAEAL Iris CE: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/faaeal-iris.24482/reviews#item-review-23938
> 
> Grade A+


I saw earlier in some post that you use LG G7 camera and you mention a problem with a blue tint. Google Cam for LG is a bit slower but you can get a better photo
https://forum.xda-developers.com/lg-g7-thinq/themes/app-google-camera-gcam-lg-g7-thinq-t3855081


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> I saw earlier in some post that you use LG G7 camera and you mention a problem with a blue tint. Google Cam for LG is a bit slower but you can get a better photo
> https://forum.xda-developers.com/lg-g7-thinq/themes/app-google-camera-gcam-lg-g7-thinq-t3855081


I do have GCam installed but the results werent that much better for me so I just gave up lol.


----------



## KokushiTsumo

Well, ended up ordering the Moondrop Nameless, anyone here have them and the shiroyukis?


----------



## RikudouGoku

KokushiTsumo said:


> Well, ended up ordering the Moondrop Nameless, anyone here have them and the shiroyukis?


yeah lol. Skip the Shiroyukis. The NiceHCK Traceless, DIY MX500 and FAAEAL Iris CE are all better than it.
(They are better than the nameless too, but the price isnt too bad for you to experience Moondrop sound.)


----------



## KokushiTsumo (Jul 11, 2020)

RikudouGoku said:


> yeah lol. Skip the Shiroyukis. The NiceHCK Traceless, DIY MX500 and FAAEAL Iris CE are all better than it.
> (They are better than the nameless too, but the price isnt too bad for you to experience Moondrop sound.)


Yea, I have the shiroyukis right now, "upgrading" from those hopefully. Was actually really impressed with what I got for the price. I'd get any of the other go-to budget earbuds but I'm yet to find a place where I can order them with paypal.

Also hoping for a *little* bit more bass, but I'm pretty sure the Nameless are similarly nobass.


----------



## RikudouGoku

KokushiTsumo said:


> Yea, I have the shiroyukis right now, "upgrading" from those hopefully. Was actually really impressed with what I got for the price. I'd get any of the other go-to budget earbuds but I'm yet to find a place where I can order them with paypal.


You can use paypal with Aliexpress. IF you already have the Shiroyuki the Nameless WILL be better BUT not by much it mainly fixes the technicalitites (instrument separation) that was quite fatal in the Shiroyuki for me. If you are ok with the Shiroyuki then I would not buy the nameless and just get the NiceHCK DIY MX50 or the FAAEAL Iris CE.


----------



## KokushiTsumo

RikudouGoku said:


> You can use paypal with Aliexpress. IF you already have the Shiroyuki the Nameless WILL be better BUT not by much it mainly fixes the technicalitites (instrument separation) that was quite fatal in the Shiroyuki for me. If you are ok with the Shiroyuki then I would not buy the nameless and just get the NiceHCK DIY MX50 or the FAAEAL Iris CE.


Have a link to any of the listings (MX500, Faaeal,...) where I can use paypal on ali?


----------



## RikudouGoku

KokushiTsumo said:


> Have a link to any of the listings (MX500, Faaeal,...) where I can use paypal on ali?


MX500: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32823569005.html

Iris CE: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33041471307.html

You can use paypal on all aliexpress products, just select it in the payment window.


----------



## KokushiTsumo

RikudouGoku said:


> MX500: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32823569005.html
> 
> Iris CE: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33041471307.html
> 
> You can use paypal on all aliexpress products, just select it in the payment window.


Not sure if its country dependent but there is no paypal option for me on any of those, oddly enough.


----------



## RikudouGoku

KokushiTsumo said:


> Not sure if its country dependent but there is no paypal option for me on any of those, oddly enough.


OK looks like I was wrong. I don't have the PayPal options with them either. Some other products have it but guess not everyone has it. 

I have never had any problems with aliexpress before so I wouldnt worry about it. It's also not very expensive either.


----------



## KokushiTsumo

RikudouGoku said:


> OK looks like I was wrong. I don't have the PayPal options with them either. Some other products have it but guess not everyone has it.
> 
> I have never had any problems with aliexpress before so I wouldnt worry about it. It's also not very expensive either.


It's more that I don't have a VISA at the moment, will look for other alternatives. For now I wait for the nameless


----------



## vygas

Despite how ridiculous it looks, the OP139 actually works really, really well with this setup.



Spoiler









But even without this setup, the OP139 is potentially my favourite pair of buds as of now. Such a solid choice for the price.


----------



## axhng

RikudouGoku said:


> yeah lol. Skip the Shiroyukis. The NiceHCK Traceless, DIY MX500 and FAAEAL Iris CE are all better than it.
> (They are better than the nameless too, but the price isnt too bad for you to experience Moondrop sound.)



Thanks for the review! was thinking of trying the shiroyukis, but already have the traceless. now i'm thinking if i should try the FAAEAL Iris CE.


----------



## RikudouGoku

axhng said:


> Thanks for the review! was thinking of trying the shiroyukis, but already have the traceless. now i'm thinking if i should try the FAAEAL Iris CE.


They are an upgrade, but instead of staying in the low budget area it might be better for you to jump straight up to something high-tier. Like Smabat ST10s and others.


----------



## axhng

RikudouGoku said:


> They are an upgrade, but instead of staying in the low budget area it might be better for you to jump straight up to something high-tier. Like Smabat ST10s and others.



That's true, though I would be kinda going in blind since there is no way to try it before I buy it.  whereas with cheaper options, I have less to lose if I don't like how it sounds. Also based on your ratings so far, the law of diminishing returns seems pretty high with earbuds?   I'm still quite happy with the Nicehck ME80 actually, and even with the traceless which I like more than the B40. It's just a little harder to resist something that's cheap and good, especially seeing that it's a bit brighter sounding than the traceless. haha.


----------



## RikudouGoku

axhng said:


> That's true, though I would be kinda going in blind since there is no way to try it before I buy it.  whereas with cheaper options, I have less to lose if I don't like how it sounds. Also based on your ratings so far, the law of diminishing returns seems pretty high with earbuds?   I'm still quite happy with the Nicehck ME80 actually, and even with the traceless which I like more than the B40. It's just a little harder to resist something that's cheap and good, especially seeing that it's a bit brighter sounding than the traceless. haha.


Yes, the diminishing returns are massive in earbuds it seems. I would honestly return the Turandot if I got it from amazon or somewhere it is easy to return. Now dont get me wrong, I dont think they are BAD but they are just not living up to the MASSIVE price increase from something like the NiceHCK DIY MX500 (please give it a damn name lol) or the FAAEAL Iris.


----------



## axhng (Jul 12, 2020)

RikudouGoku said:


> Yes, the diminishing returns are massive in earbuds it seems. I would honestly return the Turandot if I got it from amazon or somewhere it is easy to return. Now dont get me wrong, I dont think they are BAD but they are just not living up to the MASSIVE price increase from something like the NiceHCK DIY MX500 (please give it a damn name lol) or the FAAEAL Iris.



 For me I'm still not quite willing to pay for that diminishing returns just yet. Here in Singapore shops/online retailers typically don't entertain buyer's remorse. Goods sold are non refundable is usually the standard procedure. For IEMs still not a problem since there are plenty of great audio stores around here that I can try before I buy, but not so for the chi-fi stuff, and especially earbuds. I normally get my stuff from a local online shopping site called Shopee, and they have plenty of sellers from China selling chi-fi stuff like the smabats, often at prices lower than even Aliexpress, and with much much much faster shipping since they have their own sorting centre there to ship things over to singapore. But they don't really have a return policy for the sellers, and everything is just as it is. 

Anyway, i would have bought the NiceHCK DIY MX500 already (after reading your review) if it were available on Shopee. Seems like only Nicehck aliexpress store has it since it's a in-house DIY pair. Don't really want to buy anything from aliexpress now since shipping has been so slow. my last order took over 2 months, whereas with shopee it's typically 7-10 days or so. I shall ponder further about that FAAEAL Iris, and the nicehck X49 seems interesting too.


----------



## Hououin Kyouma

RikudouGoku said:


> FAAEAL Iris CE: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/faaeal-iris.24482/reviews#item-review-23938
> 
> Grade A+


Where's your snow lotus 2.5mm balanced - the best faaeal?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Hououin Kyouma said:


> Where's your snow lotus 2.5mm balanced - the best faaeal?


here.....but I returned the Fiio M11 and got the Ibasso DX160 so cant use it...since the DX160 doesnt have a 2,5mm jack looool. Shipping was so slow my old dap got a problem and needed to return/refund it loool.

(I have ordered an adapter from  2,5 to 4,4mm but who knows when that shows up   )


----------



## Hououin Kyouma

RikudouGoku said:


> here.....but I returned the Fiio M11 and got the Ibasso DX160 so cant use it...since the DX160 doesnt have a 2,5mm jack looool. Shipping was so slow my old dap got a problem and needed to return/refund it loool.
> 
> (I have ordered an adapter from  2,5 to 4,4mm but who knows when that shows up   )


Lol at that time you still owned M11. 2 months+? Slowest shipping I've ever heard loolll 


Hououin Kyouma said:


> Fiio M11? FAAEAL Snow-lotus 2.5mm Balanced! Trust me! You won't regret
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32889629399.html


----------



## RikudouGoku

Hououin Kyouma said:


> Lol at that time you still owned M11. 2 months+? Slowest shipping I've ever heard loolll


I had the M11 for an entire year. And the Faaeal package took 74 days from when I ordered it. I was actually about to give up on it, but it just randomly showed up lol.

Now to wait another 74 days for the adapter


----------



## cenizas

Further impressions of the fengru s300 as promised. Tonally this is definitely a midcentric iem with laidback treble and thick, lush mids. Anyone looking for pure resolution or for extra sparkly treble can skip these. Bass is pretty awesome, great micro and macrodynamics despite the thicker signature, and surprisingly good extension. For those not used to this signature bloat might be perceived but personally as someone who really enjoys this signature the bloom just adds body and richness to the lower mids, and if you listen past the bloat, texture and dynamics are still well maintained. Good punch and rumble as well. Mids are exceptional. Rich, lush and extremely well textured. Timbre is spot on as well and tone is lovely, with notes having proper weight behind them. Vocal texture is also handled extremely well. Highly recommended for any mids lovers. Treble it just kind of there, laid back in presentation, lacking a bit of sparkle and extension but that’s typical for this signature, and further directs attention to the lovely mids. Rendering is smooth and texturing is actually pretty solid.

Technicalities wise these aren’t winning any prizes in terms of resolution, but what you do get instead is close to top tier dynamic nuance, texturing and layering. Staging is forward and intimate, but the exceptional layering results in a good sense of space between instruments and lends great depth to the soundstage despite the intimate presentation.

vs ty-hiz 314 300ohms

Tonally the 314 300ohms is warm sounding bud with added treble sparkle. Mids while still warm are not as full bodied and lush as the s300. As a result, resolution is marginally better, but timbre is nowhere near as satisfying as the s300. Treble sparkle and extension are noticeably better on the 314, and staging feels larger as a result of the airier presentation. However, it’s worth noting that although the 314 pushes images further from you than the s300, it doesn’t layer nearly as well and staging as a result is bigger, but flatter and more one dimensional. The s300 while more intimate showcases relative space between instruments far better and hence creates the more dynamic and layered stage. Presentation is not unlike an audeze or hd650, where they image fairly close but show great nuance when it comes to portraying space between instruments.

vs k’s 300

Another budget 300ohm bud, though it’s close to twice the price of the s300. Technically these share a lot of the strengths of the s300, also having excellent layering and dynamics, though with a different tonal presentation. Wouldn’t be surprised if they were using the same driver. The k’s 300 signature is more of slightly warm and dark and slightly bassy, reminiscent of the vido. Lower mids are leaner on the k’s 300, resulting in faster perceived transients and better clarity. It also results in a slightly hollowed out, cavernous effect on the sound, which increases perceived stage size, with a slight cost to tonality. The k’s 300 sounds massive and if anyone is looking for a not too expensive bud that can match some headphones in staging, the k’s 300 is the one I’d recommend. Overall the more neutral presentation through the mids and better resolution means the majority of people likely will prefer the k’s 300 over the s300. But for the select few who love their mids or who want to add a really great rendition of a midcentric sound to their collection, the s300 with its high performance and low cost is a no brainer.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jul 13, 2020)

Rediscovering how great the Ourart ACG Mids & Highs are.

I just got a new USB-C DAC for my phone that lacks a 3.5mm output. These earbuds do scale up.


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

RikudouGoku said:


> I had the M11 for an entire year. And the Faaeal package took 74 days from when I ordered it. I was actually about to give up on it, but it just randomly showed up lol.
> 
> Now to wait another 74 days for the adapter


Hey! Which Faaeal Iris did you buy? 1 or 2?


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

Hey! What is the best entry level earbud to buy from AliE etc? I love soundstage,seperation and bass(not bleeding bass)


----------



## RikudouGoku

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> Hey! Which Faaeal Iris did you buy? 1 or 2?


I got the commemorative edition: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33041471307.html


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

RikudouGoku said:


> I got the commemorative edition: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33041471307.html


Hmm,whats the difference?


----------



## RikudouGoku

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> Hmm,whats the difference?


No idea


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

RikudouGoku said:


> No idea


I bought the blue one with mic.. Thats the only difference. Mic or not=) what is the earbud with the biggest soundstage/stereoeffect. You have experience that isnt expensive? And what do you mean is the best budget earbud? What kind of "tips" is recommended?


----------



## RikudouGoku

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> I bought the blue one with mic.. Thats the only difference. Mic or not=) what is the earbud with the biggest soundstage/stereoeffect. You have experience that isnt expensive? And what do you mean is the best budget earbud? What kind of "tips" is recommended?


I havent heard many earbuds but I think the NiceHCK DIY MX500 and the FAAEAL Iris have equally as big soundstage and both in the top. DQSM Turandot being better but MUUUUUUUUUUCH more expensive so not recommended. 

the tips you are thinking are probably Silicone tips for IEMS, for earbuds I think the stock full foams are perfectly fine.


----------



## Dazrok

Hello, 
My Vido earbuds just broke and I'm looking for a replacement.

Is there any recommended earbuds with sound similar to the vido but with mic included?

Thanks.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Dazrok said:


> Hello,
> My Vido earbuds just broke and I'm looking for a replacement.
> 
> Is there any recommended earbuds with sound similar to the vido but with mic included?
> ...


YINCROW X6 with mic


----------



## jasswolf

Going to start grabbing some earbuds as the smaller AliE coupons roll in, but where should I start:

NiceHCK MX500 (2019 update)
FENGRU/TinGo TC200 MX985
NiceHCK ME80

Also interested in more thoughts on the FENGRU S300, and whether its presentation of the mids is worth reaching for ahead of these three.


----------



## waynes world

jasswolf said:


> Going to start grabbing some earbuds as the smaller AliE coupons roll in, but where should I start:
> 
> NiceHCK MX500 (2019 update)
> FENGRU/TinGo TC200 MX985
> ...



I listen to the TC200's every night when falling asleep. And I've been listening to the ME80's as my primary's for the last few weeks. Get them both  

I'm not familiar with the others, but they are probably good, so get them all!


----------



## F700

Spending an amazing time tonight with the Smabat ST-10s gold/black and the Calyx M. These earbuds are very natural sounding. I get better layering, details retrieval and bass with my custom IEMs, but the Smabats bring this nice airy and delicate sensation into play. Still amazed after a month of use.


----------



## Mboom

Browsed for a bit and placed an order for FAAEAL iris (clear housing/cable) and FAAEAL snow-lotus (clear housing/black cable). They're gonna be replacing a VE monk plus I had and really liked. What should i expect compared to VE monk plus ?


----------



## jasswolf

waynes world said:


> I listen to the TC200's every night when falling asleep. And I've been listening to the ME80's as my primary's for the last few weeks. Get them both
> 
> I'm not familiar with the others, but they are probably good, so get them all!


I'm going to, I just wanted to know where to start. 

Think I'll just go with the TC200 to begin with.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

F700 said:


> Spending an amazing time tonight with the Smabat ST-10s gold/black and the Calyx M. These earbuds are very natural sounding. I get better layering, details retrieval and bass with my custom IEMs, but the Smabats bring this nice airy and delicate sensation into play. Still amazed after a month of use.


I sold my ST-10s Gold in a week it has a very cold middle .... and bought the Turandot


----------



## F700

Alex.Grimm said:


> I sold my ST-10s Gold in a week it has a very cold middle .... and bought the Turandot


The Calyx M is a warm yet detailed source, so I think that the pairing with the ST-10s is great, no complaints at all regarding the mediums. 

How does the Turandot sound compared to the ST-10s? What kind of source(s) do you have?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

F700 said:


> The Calyx M is a warm yet detailed source, so I think that the pairing with the ST-10s is great, no complaints at all regarding the mediums.
> 
> How does the Turandot sound compared to the ST-10s? What kind of source(s) do you have?


HiBy R5 [CS43198], LG G7 One [ES9218P]

I liked Turandot from the first listening, it has a well-balanced sound. Wide stage, warmth in the middle, emotionality, assertive weighty, detailed, bass and high as the doctor attributed. The sound is a little softened, no hurts the hearing.


----------



## F700

Alex.Grimm said:


> HiBy R5 [CS43198], LG G7 One [ES9218P]
> 
> I liked Turandot from the first listening, it has a well-balanced sound. Wide stage, warmth in the middle, emotionality, assertive weighty, detailed, bass and high as the doctor attributed. The sound is a little softened, no hurts the hearing.


Cool! Enjoy it.


----------



## cenizas (Jul 16, 2020)

Hey, I posted a comparison along with measurements of all the different Vido colours, the Yincrow X6 and the Nicehck Traceless on the Yincrow X6 review page to make it easier to reference in the future. Long story short, there are actually differences between the different models, more details in the comparison:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/yincrow-x6.22393/reviews#item-review-23970

Would love to hear more impressions from others who own more than one Vido variant as well!


----------



## waynes world

jasswolf said:


> I'm going to, I just wanted to know where to start.



Right. This is where you should start:

BUY NOW, BUY NOW, BUY NOW, BUY NOW 



> Think I'll just go with the TC200 to begin with.



Or start there! Let us know what you think when you get them.


----------



## CRML

superuser1 said:


> I feel NickHCK B40 sounds better than the PT15. It has clearer imaging across the spectrum.


U Know Why The SenferBrand Name Is Being Censured In The Forun If Typed Alone ???...Example : **** ...It Makes Think That Ima Esquisofrenic N This Brand N Earphones Doest Even Exist...🤣🤣🤣.


----------



## superuser1

CRML said:


> U Know Why The SenferBrand Name Is Being Censured In The Forun If Typed Alone ???...Example : **** ...It Makes Think That Ima Esquisofrenic N This Brand N Earphones Doest Even Exist...🤣🤣🤣.


It is a banned seller/ manufacturer on this forum...Kindly look at @Slater 's signature to know more!


----------



## assassin10000

It's been at least a month (if not 2) since I listened to these but now that I have this nifty little USB-C DAC/Amp I decided to listen to my ST-10's. Man these things are good.

Plus their shape gives them an almost comfortable fit. Which for me is a problem with 99% of 15.4mm drivers.


----------



## morike

assassin10000 said:


> It's been at least a month (if not 2) since I listened to these but now that I have this nifty little USB-C DAC/Amp I decided to listen to my ST-10's. Man these things are good.
> 
> Plus their shape gives them an almost comfortable fit. Which for me is a problem with 99% of 15.4mm drivers.



How are they in terms of imaging and soundstage compared to EBX?


----------



## KeyStar

Dazrok said:


> Hello,
> My Vido earbuds just broke and I'm looking for a replacement.
> 
> Is there any recommended earbuds with sound similar to the vido but with mic included?
> ...



Can't beat a pair of FAAEAL Iris 😉


----------



## assassin10000 (Jul 17, 2020)

morike said:


> How are they in terms of imaging and soundstage compared to EBX?



It's been way too long since I had the EBX, so I couldn't say.

Besides the fact that some earbuds if I hear a track with a door knock or other unanticipated sound makes me think someones knocking on the door or something is outside lol. Even though the sound isn't like what my door actually sounds like when knocked on.


----------



## KeyStar

vygas said:


> Despite how ridiculous it looks, the OP139 actually works really, really well with this setup.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The Ocean Pacific where s real surprise for me two and there price to sound ratio cannot be ignored great buds a solid purchase.


----------



## morike

Ok, does anyone know a good upgrade to EBX with better imaging and good soundstage?
I used the EBX now almost 2 years and latly i felt that i want something with more details/imaging, decent soundstage, good balanced sound and again detachable cable.


----------



## RikudouGoku

What color do you guys use for your buds? I figure I will take red for right side but dont know if the other colors will just look ridiculous on the left (other than black).

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32671911259.html


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> What color do you guys use for your buds? I figure I will take red for right side but dont know if the other colors will just look ridiculous on the left (other than black).
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32671911259.html


red and black, but I ordered some blues for the left side a couple weeks back.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> What color do you guys use for your buds? I figure I will take red for right side but dont know if the other colors will just look ridiculous on the left (other than black).
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32671911259.html


I already have a collection of almost all different colors but I don't know why I only have problems with red, it often happens to me that they fall apart before I put them over driver cover.


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> I already have a collection of almost all different colors but I don't know why I only have problems with red, it often happens to me that they fall apart before I put them over driver cover.


Did you buy the one I linked? Sounds strange that just one color has issues lol. Maybe that particular batch you got is faulty or something?


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Did you buy the one I linked? Sounds strange that just one color has issues lol. Maybe that particular batch you got is faulty or something?


I have one package from that seller and I had a similar problem with some packages that I got with the earbuds. Black, gray, yellow, green, navy blue, orange are all good


----------



## Sam L (Jul 18, 2020)

**edit: nevermind, I see the resistance labeled in the little thumbnail icon.
__________________________________

What did I buy? I think they are the 120 ohm monks? I looked throughout the posting and can't find the details, other than the white gold version being 40 ohm. I purchased the silver white 3.5 spc version 

#Aliexpress US $3.00 | Venture ElectronicsVE Monk Lite Earbud Hifi  Earphone for mobile phone
https://a.aliexpress.com/_d9ESCC3


----------



## Saoshyant

I often to right red left blue for buds.  I think the only notable exception is white right left grey for Poseidon


----------



## 1clearhead

Sam L said:


> Nothing coming up on google or aliexpress yet - just references to the iem R7.
> 
> I'm guessing it's only on taobao?


Yes, unfortunately I've only seen them on Taobao, unless someone else has seen them elsewhere other than you and me.


----------



## 1clearhead

SweetEars said:


> give us a review thanks


You must have missed my quick review on them back at the link below...
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15662597

The MEMT R7 earbuds are well made, but since then, I have received and added more earbuds to that list of better sounding earbuds.

-Clear


----------



## Sam L (Jul 19, 2020)

Just got the Nicehck B40 in today. Another excellent earbud for the price. I'm noticing that most of the sub $20 earbuds I've received all suffer from upper bass to lower mid bloat. They also tend to roll off a bit in the 1k to 3k region as well. 

Obviously every earbud is different but this is the general trend I've seen thus far. 

For the B40, I bumped down 125hz -2db, 250hz and 500hz - 3db, 1k +1db, 2 +2db. 

Perfection for the price of a quick meal.

I should add, i picked up this earbud because of the mic option. Pretty good mic. Very happy and highly recommended.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Qigom S130: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/qigom-s130.24503/reviews#item-review-23986

Beryllium 130 ohm earbud, quite the hidden gem right here.

grade A+


----------



## RikudouGoku (Jul 19, 2020)

Before I forget here is the Turandot finalized with the grade B+ (previously A+) review: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VHqPqJ6GnZT0da18GV2wb9xJYH6FcnLKB0hHJaoJ12U/edit?usp=sharing
(not on headfi since it seems they are banned here but strangely not censured lol).

EDIT: I had accidentally forgotten to give viewing permission to everyone with the link, should be working now sorry.


----------



## Promenadeplatz (Jul 20, 2020)

After a decent amount of time I finally received my Smabat-10s Black-Gold but wait, inside the "Black-Gold"-labeled package there are *silvered* ones inside!!!! What is this ???? Be warned!!!


----------



## baskingshark

Promenadeplatz said:


> After a decent amount of time I finally received my Smabat-10s Black-Gold but wait, inside the "Black-Gold"-labeled package there are *silvered* ones inside!!!! What is this ???? Be warned!!!



Which shop was this from? Sad to hear this.


----------



## Promenadeplatz

Was told that mine could be gold even it is very thin colored like silver-gold.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Here are my gold ones, I would say they have a slight shade of gold, impedance 150ohm


----------



## superuser1

Promenadeplatz said:


> After a decent amount of time I finally received my Smabat-10s Black-Gold but wait, inside the "Black-Gold"-labeled package there are *silvered* ones inside!!!! What is this ???? Be warned!!!


Which shop is it bought from? That's terrible indded.


----------



## Promenadeplatz (Jul 20, 2020)

Let me check first with my multimeter the impedance before I quote a shop name. Will revert asap.



Alex.Grimm said:


> Here are my gold ones, I would say they have a slight shade of gold, impedance 150ohm


Well, those really shine like golden more than mine do.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Promenadeplatz said:


> Well, those really shine like golden more than mine do.


what is written behind the box where is the information and which cable is included?


----------



## digititus

Promenadeplatz said:


> After a decent amount of time I finally received my Smabat-10s Black-Gold but wait, inside the "Black-Gold"-labeled package there are *silvered* ones inside!!!! What is this ???? Be warned!!!


Check which cable you have. They are easy to spot the difference


----------



## Promenadeplatz

Ok, the closer I look the more I think they are golden


----------



## digititus

Promenadeplatz said:


> Ok, the closer I look the more I think they are golden


Well, you do have the correct cable


----------



## mochill

Promenadeplatz said:


> Ok, the closer I look the more I think they are golden


Is anything wrong with the black gold?


----------



## assassin10000

mochill said:


> Is anything wrong with the black gold?



The color of the earbuds was a 'light gold' and not as dark as the rendered pics. Just some initial confusion on which version they received I think.


----------



## Promenadeplatz

Yes, I think they are valid. Not golden gold but more like rhodium.


----------



## KokushiTsumo

Promenadeplatz said:


> Ok, the closer I look the more I think they are golden


Those look gold to me, but the first picture could have fooled anyone. Just to be sure, check the impedence with a multimeter


----------



## Promenadeplatz

KokushiTsumo said:


> Those look gold to me, but the first picture could have fooled anyone. Just to be sure, check the impedence with a multimeter


Yes will do as soon as I get one from a friend of mine.


----------



## Nec3 (Jul 20, 2020)

I now finally have both the Nicehck ME80 and B40 both in my hands, both are new out of the box. Its' been about a full month since I listened to the B40's (I've been using other gear) so I completely forgot how they sounded like.

The ME80's are definitely a donut earphone while the B40's are a full foam for me. The ME80's sound screechy with full covers and the B40's sound screechy with donuts. The B40 also has cheap bass impact (sort of like slapping a door with a rattly doorknob), but it receives the full bass treatment with full covers. However the ME80 is technically better due to the much better sub-bass response. The B40 has almost non-existent sub-bass.

The ME80's are about 20-30% clearer and they sound better with the donuts unlike the B40's with donuts, however the ME80's suffer from upper mid lift which can leave violins sounding too forward and piercing. The B40's are slightly laid back with full covers, but they actually sound more natural than the ME80's with full covers.

The ME80 has _shockingly _tall soundstage and good detail retrieval when it comes to pulling in background details. In most headphones there's usually 1 layer and then there would be sound that would disappear into the background creating depth outside your head, but the ME80 has 2 very distinct layers and it's pretty cool.

Winner goes to the B40 for everyday non-fatiguing usage and ME80's for temporary enjoyment.

P.S. how do you guys cut out your earbud foams to turn them into donuts?


----------



## assassin10000

Nec3 said:


> I now finally have both the Nicehck ME80 and B40 both in my hands, both are new out of the box. Its' been about a full month since I listened to the B40's (I've been using other gear) so I completely forgot how they sounded like.
> 
> The ME80's are definitely a donut earphone while the B40's are a full foam for me. The ME80's sound screechy with full covers and the B40's sound screechy with donuts. The B40 also has cheap bass impact (sort of like slapping a door with a rattly doorknob), but it receives the full bass treatment with full covers. However the ME80 is technically better due to the much better sub-bass response. The B40 has almost non-existent sub-bass.
> 
> ...



Regular type donut foams are made that way. 

You can make offset hole ones like I do or several smaller holes if you want as well.

I use a small hole punch. Insert into foam hole on the backside, then simply press down against a softer surface like a cutting board and rotate my hand in a circular motion (wax on, wax off daniel-san) on the held end while keeping the tip at the same spot, to make sure it evenly cuts the circle. You can also try twisting if you have the end flat against the surface.

I bought several sizes but have settled with using the 3mm size on new foams (hole stretches wider once fitted).


This is with a 4mm punch.




I know others have used hole punch tools. They look like a larger version of a paper hole punch with an end that has 5-6 different size punches you can choose.


----------



## Promenadeplatz

Contacted @smabat they say they are golden, so it's ok. 

Nevertheless any other Faaeal around 9USD comes with a couples of foams, donuts, etc. The Smabat I received had not a single foam inside the package.


----------



## cenizas

Promenadeplatz said:


> Contacted @smabat they say they are golden, so it's ok.
> 
> Nevertheless any other Faaeal around 9USD comes with a couples of foams, donuts, etc. The Smabat I received had not a single foam inside the package.


There are foams on the back of that block the earphones sit in in the packaging.


----------



## Promenadeplatz (Jul 21, 2020)

Actually, not here. Happy that I had some other foams from Faaeal, etc.

I tried y'day a couple of hours on a SR15. It is a very very extreamly capable earbud, it reproduces my reference recordings almost very good, but: It does present the drums not "in the face" that is how I like to perceive the energy and power of a recording. And I dont like how it presents sometimes male voices (to certain extent hollow and soulless), on the other hand it reproduces extreamly well female voices and distorted guitars. Also I found the bass to be not bleeding out, very well controlled. Nevertheless I want to sell the Smabat 10s Black-Gold as I had to wait 3 months for and purchased in the meantime Mee Audio's P1 which I am extreamly fine with. Asking 50€ + p&p to someone in this thread, otherwise 75€ + p&p in the mkt section within the EU so no taxes involved. Thanks!!


----------



## cenizas

Promenadeplatz said:


> Actually, not here. Happy that I had some other foams from Faaeal, etc.
> 
> I tried y'day a couple of hours on a SR15. It is a very very extreamly capable earbud, it reproduces my reference recordings almost very good, but: It does present the drums not "in the face" that is how I like to perceive the energy and power of a recording. And I dont like how it presents sometimes male voices (to certain extent hollow and soulless), on the other hand it reproduces extreamly well female voices and distorted guitars. Also I found the bass to be not bleeding out, very well controlled. Nevertheless I want to sell the Smabat 10s Black-Gold as I had to wait 3 months for and purchased in the meantime Mee Audio's P1 which I am extreamly fine with. Asking 50€ + p&p to someone in this thread, otherwise 75€ + p&p in the mkt section within the EU so no taxes involved. Thanks!!


Strange, that's where they were on mine. Anyways, I only had one pair of full foams, donut foams and silicone covers each with my pair, so agreed that the accessories are a bit lacking especially at this price point.


----------



## KokushiTsumo

Promenadeplatz said:


> Actually, not here. Happy that I had some other foams from Faaeal, etc.
> 
> I tried y'day a couple of hours on a SR15. It is a very very extreamly capable earbud, it reproduces my reference recordings almost very good, but: It does present the drums not "in the face" that is how I like to perceive the energy and power of a recording. And I dont like how it presents sometimes male voices (to certain extent hollow and soulless), on the other hand it reproduces extreamly well female voices and distorted guitars. Also I found the bass to be not bleeding out, very well controlled. Nevertheless I want to sell the Smabat 10s Black-Gold as I had to wait 3 months for and purchased in the meantime Mee Audio's P1 which I am extreamly fine with. Asking 50€ + p&p to someone in this thread, otherwise 75€ + p&p in the mkt section within the EU so no taxes involved. Thanks!!


Sent you a PM


----------



## Promenadeplatz

cenizas said:


> There are foams on the back of that block the earphones sit in in the packaging.


YOU WERE RIGHT, just discovered thos inserted on the backside!!!


----------



## cenizas

Promenadeplatz said:


> YOU WERE RIGHT, just discovered thos inserted on the backside!!!


😂 glad you managed to find them haha


----------



## Promenadeplatz

Sold the Smabat!


----------



## mochill

Promenadeplatz said:


> Sold the Smabat!


----------



## thesoundandthefury

Promenadeplatz said:


> Actually, not here. Happy that I had some other foams from Faaeal, etc.
> 
> I tried y'day a couple of hours on a SR15. It is a very very extreamly capable earbud, it reproduces my reference recordings almost very good, but: It does present the drums not "in the face" that is how I like to perceive the energy and power of a recording. And I dont like how it presents sometimes male voices (to certain extent hollow and soulless), on the other hand it reproduces extreamly well female voices and distorted guitars. Also I found the bass to be not bleeding out, very well controlled. Nevertheless I want to sell the Smabat 10s Black-Gold as I had to wait 3 months for and purchased in the meantime Mee Audio's P1 which I am extreamly fine with. Asking 50€ + p&p to someone in this thread, otherwise 75€ + p&p in the mkt section within the EU so no taxes involved. Thanks!!



Have you tried any earbuds that can seriously rival the Mee P1? The P1 has been my go-to for ages, and a few months ago I bought a smabat m1 to try out. Its OK, but it is no competition in regards to clarity, seperation etc. I've been warned about the big drop of diminishing returns with earbuds, so I've held off from purchasing any TOTLS to avoid future disappointments, but I'd love to know if youve experienced anything that can rival it.


----------



## digititus

thesoundandthefury said:


> Have you tried any earbuds that can seriously rival the Mee P1? The P1 has been my go-to for ages, and a few months ago I bought a smabat m1 to try out. Its OK, but it is no competition in regards to clarity, seperation etc. I've been warned about the big drop of diminishing returns with earbuds, so I've held off from purchasing any TOTLS to avoid future disappointments, but I'd love to know if youve experienced anything that can rival it.


The Mee Audio P1 isn't an earbud as far as I can tell.


----------



## RuFrost

I'm searching to buy Astrotec Lyra Nature and DQSM Turandot. If you have some for sale, let me know))

I have few amazing earbuds for the trade as well: smabat m1 pro, ST10s silver, ABnormallabs Diomnes LV2...pure silver hi-end cable Penon Leo.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

FENGRU PT52


Spoiler



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001264560273.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001263547511.html


----------



## Promenadeplatz (Jul 22, 2020)

thesoundandthefury said:


> Have you tried any earbuds that can seriously rival the Mee P1? The P1 has been my go-to for ages, and a few months ago I bought a smabat m1 to try out. Its OK, but it is no competition in regards to clarity, seperation etc. I've been warned about the big drop of diminishing returns with earbuds, so I've held off from purchasing any TOTLS to avoid future disappointments, but I'd love to know if youve experienced anything that can rival it.


Tried the Smabat only a couple of hours so not really intensive. I can't use earbuds for critical listening where I try to discover every single piece of information. The earbuds are ok for casual listening. I gave up a while ago with the IEM because of the hassle with the tips and sealing or should I better say, no sealing. The P1 is ok but I am still in the process of playing with and finding out the right tips. In real, I don't think I will try real hard for. Too much try and error.


----------



## furyossa

Alex.Grimm said:


> FENGRU PT52
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Nice find. To be realistic, here only a shell with mmcx is worth 15$. It is difficult to expect that the sound, ie. driver is good quality. Anyway it's worth a try


----------



## cenizas

PT32 was pretty interesting with its semi open design. Crazy wide stage let down by woolly bass and general mushiness. Great price for a mmcx bud though.


----------



## wskl (Jul 22, 2020)

Smabat M2 Pro - modular design, looks very interesting

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001267044768.html


----------



## axhng

Finally received the Faaeal Iris CE yesterday. Not sure if it's unit variance but I find mine to be a bit too warm and veiled sounding when using full foam. Even for donuts it seems to "thickens" the lower frequencies too much for my taste. Without foam they sound good though, fuller sounding compared to the Traceless I think. cable is not bad though, just a little sticky for my taste.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Penon Earbuds


Spoiler



https://penonaudio.com/penon-iem.html


----------



## Sam L

jenkinsontherun said:


> Monk lite 120 ohm without foams sounds like hd600, tonally.



Just got them in. I don't have many headphones (all closed) but these sound the most headphone-like out of all the earbuds I've tried thus far. If I got these earlier, I would of skipped the Smabat s10.


----------



## Slater

Man, I’m loving the NiceHCK ME80.

 These are the favorite earbuds I have tried by far. Great fit, meaty bass, clear mids, nice metal build. I wish they were mmcx however.


----------



## axhng (Jul 23, 2020)

Slater said:


> Man, I’m loving the NiceHCK ME80.
> 
> These are the favorite earbuds I have tried by far. Great fit, meaty bass, clear mids, nice metal build. I wish they were mmcx however.



Second this! I've not tried that many yet, but so far the ME80 is still my favourite sounding pair. And probably my favourite looking pair too! For casual listening at home, I enjoy these more than my ER4XR. :/


----------



## jibberish

You all have inspired me to dig out my ME80. I have rarely been listening to any of my buds over the past few months, but these are a treat.


----------



## mochill

#Aliexpress Let's shop together on AliExpress with new user coupons
Your US $1.00 in coupons are here!
https://a.aliexpress.com/_dWkRscl

First modular earbud :-O


----------



## Alex.Grimm

FiiO new earbuds on the way!


Spoiler


----------



## furyossa

Alex.Grimm said:


> FiiO new earbuds on the way!
> 
> 
> Spoiler


This is reminiscent of the phase correction tube. But I don't know if it makes sense to put this tube behind the driver at all


----------



## Slater (Jul 24, 2020)

furyossa said:


> This is reminiscent of the phase correction tube. But I don't know if it makes sense to put this tube behind the driver at all



The FiiO tube is just like the vent tube on a typical bud. They just routed the tube with a gentle radius for a unique look.

Typical bud:


FiiO design:


----------



## furyossa

Slater said:


> The FiiO tube is just like the vent tube on a typical bud. They just routed the tube with a gentle radius for a unique look.
> 
> Typical bud:
> 
> ...


It looks more like a water bucket handle to me


----------



## edoin

I am looking for earbuds with balanced plug and would prefer neutral to bright signatures. Anyone who owns Faaeal Snow Lotus 2.5mm? May I know how's the sound signature of these? I can't seem to find anything online.

I'm also considering Fengru DIY PK1, ISN Rambo, VE Monk Lite SPC. Which of these would you recommend?


----------



## furyossa (Jul 24, 2020)

edoin said:


> I am looking for earbuds with balanced plug and would prefer neutral to bright signatures. Anyone who owns Faaeal Snow Lotus 2.5mm? May I know how's the sound signature of these? I can't seem to find anything online.
> 
> I'm also considering Fengru DIY PK1, ISN Rambo, VE Monk Lite SPC. Which of these would you recommend?


You can always replace the plug on aftermarket earbuds. Maybe VE's are willing to change the plug for you but it will probably cost you more than doing it yourself.
And as for DIY PK1 (especially "red-coated" film) and  ISN Rambo, these don’t have the sound signature you’re looking for. Don't get me wrong, both of these are very good earbuds


----------



## edoin

furyossa said:


> You can always replace the plug on aftermarket earbuds. Maybe VE's are willing to change the plug for you but it will probably cost you more than doing it yourself.
> And as for DIY PK1 (especially "red-coated" film) and  ISN Rambo, these don’t have the sound signature you’re looking for. Don't get me wrong, both of these are very good earbuds



Thanks for the input. Any suggestion on what I can get for the same price range of those buds?
I was hoping those buds have neutral to bright signatures since reviews I read is saying they have good mids, highs and neutral bass.


----------



## furyossa

If you are looking for bright sound I can't help because I'm treble sensitive and I always skip models with like these. Most of the DIY driver on Ali has rolled-off or smooth treble.
PK1 "transparent film" driver is mid-centric, "red film" is a more dynamic sound. 
Tingo TG-38s has very nice bass and treble extension, slightly recessed mids (U-shape), above-average soundstage. Can be sibilant in rare cases.
TY Hi-Z lineup (32-600ohm) can be a nice choice. This is TY Hi-Z 150ohm model but you can find others on Ali and PENON Audio Store.


----------



## assassin10000

edoin said:


> Thanks for the input. Any suggestion on what I can get for the same price range of those buds?
> I was hoping those buds have neutral to bright signatures since reviews I read is saying they have good mids, highs and neutral bass.



The best bright'ish signature buds I've had were the Nicehck EBX. They also had really good mids and good bass too.

The Ourart ACG was also very very good but not quite bright. More like it was DF tuned. Excellent mids and details without being harsh.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> The best bright'ish signature buds I've had were the Nicehck EBX. They also had really good mids and good bass too.


I don't know about that, probably we have totally different models. My unit has solid mid-bass, slightly recesed mids, and smooth treble. 
It's a black shell and I swap the stock cable with NiceHCK Black 16 core 2.5mm (balance) cable


----------



## cenizas (Jul 25, 2020)

Just got the memt r7 and the ocean pearl op139 in. R7 has this under damped housing, cavernous effect, it can make simpler recordings sound bigger but falls apart with more complex stuff. Overall tonality is warm and slightly boxy. Unless you only listen to chamber and simple jazz/acoustic, these are worth skipping imo, there's better and more versatile stuff for the same price and cheaper. Kinda sad, expected more with the good reviews and biocellulose driver.

The oceal pearl is pretty lovely. Super smooth, warm neutral and laid back sounding. It's mid centric with rolloff on both ends which aids its signature but worth noting for the bassheads and trebleheads that might want to avoid. Texturing and dynamics are excellent, which is pretty impressive considering how smooth it is. Resolution is alright but not great, but I feel that aids the signature. Staging is good with nicely balanced width, depth and height, sounds pretty big but layering is not the best. With simpler recordings and any well recorded instrumentation it's excellent and shows refinement well past its price. With more complex stuff like metal the smoothness and relative lack of resolution hampers the layering and there will be come congestion. It's very competent for the price and is very clear in terms of how it wants to sound, with a refined rendition of a specifically defined signature, which I really appreciate instead of the dabbling in everything and not really achieving anything patchwork approach that many buds in this price category suffer from. Overall, I think it's great both as a starter bud or as an addition to a collection, with it's solid execution of a relatively unique signature.


----------



## baskingshark

cenizas said:


> Just got the memt r7 and the ocean pearl op-139 in. R7 has this under damped housing, cavernous effect, it can make simpler recordings sound bigger but falls apart with more complex stuff. Overall tonality is warm and slightly boxy. Unless you only listen to chamber and simple jazz/acoustic, these are worth skipping imo, there's better and more versatile stuff for the same price and cheaper. Kinda sad, expected more with the good reviews and biocellulose driver.
> 
> The oceal pearl is pretty lovely. Super smooth, warm neutral and laid back sounding. It's mid centric with rolloff on both ends which aids its signature but worth noting for the bassheads and trebleheads that might want to avoid. Texturing and dynamics are excellent, which is pretty impressive considering how smooth it is. Resolution is alright but not great, but I feel that aids the signature. Staging is good with nicely balanced width, depth and height, sounds pretty big but layering is not the best. With simpler recordings and any well recorded instrumentation it's excellent and shows refinement well past its price. With more complex stuff like metal the smoothness and relative lack of resolution hampers the layering and there will be come congestion. It's very competent for the price and is very clear in terms of how it wants to sound, with a refined rendition of a specifically defined signature, which I really appreciate instead of the dabbling in everything and not really achieving anything patchwork approach that many buds in this price category suffer from. Overall, I think it's great both as a starter bud or as an addition to a collection, with it's solid execution of a relatively unique signature.



Thanks for the info, how does the Ocean Pearl compare to the Faaeal Datura Pro? Since both of them are midcentric with roll off at both ends?


----------



## cqtek

Very surprised with the new ISN Rambo II. Actually, they are not a version II, they are totally different in their look. Its sound tends to Ourart QJ21 (to make an analogy with something I own), but with a little more low zone, without losing the smoothness. Very very open sound, very clear middle zone, neutral character, with a midcentric feel. They have dethroned my beloved Smabat M1, in this price segment.


----------



## cenizas

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for the info, how does the Ocean Pearl compare to the Faaeal Datura Pro? Since both of them are midcentric with roll off at both ends?


I liken the datura pro to a audeze with the colder darker upper mids and slightly flat presentation with the midbass bump and warmer lowers mids of a hd650. The op is a lighter, sweeter presentation more akin to the hd600, but with smoother highs. Extension wise I find the datura pro extends quite linearly on both ends before falling of a cliff on the extremes, whereas the op is more of a smoother mild n shape. Technicalities wise, in terms of the more immediate aspects like raw resolution and separation, the datura pros are noticeably better, but not by a giant margin. In terms of the more refined aspects like snap, dynamics and texturing, the op really encroaches into totl performance in those particular aspects and kind of dumpsters the datura pro here, but it requires you to be willing to listen past the immediate lack of resolution, which I think some won't be willing to do, it was worth it for me though. At 15usd I'd say it's a fairly safe buy, but if your region has shopee it can be found for about around 11usd and at this price it's pretty fantastic.


----------



## furyossa

cqtek said:


> Very surprised with the new ISN Rambo II. Actually, they are not a version II, they are totally different in their look. Its sound tends to Ourart QJ21 (to make an analogy with something I own), but with a little more low zone, without losing the smoothness. Very very open sound, very clear middle zone, neutral character, with a midcentric feel. They have dethroned my beloved Smabat M1, in this price segment.


Thanks for this short review. I look forward to see the full review. I hope it will be soon.
Can you compare them to Smabat ST-10S?


----------



## wskl

Alex.Grimm said:


> FiiO new earbuds on the way!
> 
> 
> Spoiler



Some info on the FiiO EM5 (in Chinese), not cheap though, around 285usd

https://bbs.fiio.com/note/showNoteContent.do?id=202007251951263241233


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Jul 25, 2020)

wskl said:


> Some info on the FiiO EM5 (in Chinese), not cheap though, around 285usd
> 
> https://bbs.fiio.com/note/showNoteContent.do?id=202007251951263241233


https://hifigo.com/blogs/news/fiio-em5-flagship-earbuds-released?rfsn=3165508.8b9f6
https://hifigo.com/products/fiio-em5


----------



## Sam L

Slater said:


> Man, I’m loving the NiceHCK ME80.
> 
> These are the favorite earbuds I have tried by far. Great fit, meaty bass, clear mids, nice metal build. I wish they were mmcx however.


I just got mine in, along with a bunch of other sub $25 earbuds I've been waiting for a couple months to finally arrive. 

The ME80 is the only earbud in the sub 40 dollar market that has decent 1k to 4k extension without overwhelming bass. The bass still has plenty of punch but pretty decently defined, especially so for a budget earbud. 

My initial observations after listening for 5 mins. I'll open up the other buds and eventually give these the time they deserve.


----------



## Sam L (Jul 25, 2020)

edoin said:


> I am looking for earbuds with balanced plug and would prefer neutral to bright signatures. Anyone who owns Faaeal Snow Lotus 2.5mm? May I know how's the sound signature of these? I can't seem to find anything online.
> 
> I'm also considering Fengru DIY PK1, ISN Rambo, VE Monk Lite SPC. Which of these would you recommend?


I listen predominantly to classical music and find that earbuds present a unique challenge. I love the soundstage and presentation of earbuds but the vast majority of earbuds I've purchased over the last couple months (around 10) have required eq adjustments (lowering) in the 32hz to 125hz range significantly. They are also, by in large deficient in the 2k-3k range.

I just got the ME80 the mids to lower treble on these are excellent.

A bright sounding earbud is rare apparently


----------



## Slater

Sam L said:


> I listen predominantly to classical music and find that earbuds present a unique challenge. I love the soundstage and presentation of earbuds but the vast majority of earbuds I've purchased over the last couple months (around 10) have required eq adjustments (lowering) in the 32hz to 125hz range significantly. They are also, by in large deficient in the 2k-3k range.
> 
> I just got the ME80 the mids to lower treble on these are excellent.
> 
> A bright sounding earbud is rare apparently



Have you tried doughnut foams? That can make them brighter sounding.


----------



## Sam L

Just opened up the Yincrow rw9. Along with the me80, excellent upper mids and nice detail in the lower treble.


----------



## DBaldock9

Sam L said:


> I just got mine in, along with a bunch of other sub $25 earbuds I've been waiting for a couple months to finally arrive.
> 
> The ME80 is the only earbud in the sub 40 dollar market that has decent 1k to 4k extension without overwhelming bass. The bass still has plenty of punch but pretty decently defined, especially so for a budget earbud.
> 
> My initial observations after listening for 5 mins. I'll open up the other buds and eventually give these the time they deserve.



So today, I pulled out my ME80 (purchased during the June 2019 NiceHCK "Lucky Bag" Sale, for $9.90), installed some Hiegi Donut Foams, and they're really clear for listening to TV.  I'm enjoying watching "Campion" [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campion_(TV_series) ] on Acorn.tv, with them connected to my iBasso PB2 amp (OPA1622 op-amps).


----------



## axhng (Jul 26, 2020)

Been giving the Iris CE more listening time and playing around with foams various ways to listen to it. Full foams still doesn't really work for me because it makes it sound veiled, donuts are a bit better, but I would have to make sure it doesn't cover the front of the earbuds. So for me without any foam seems to make it sound closer to what other have described, and does sound pretty capable. Though I still find that the 1kHz regions seems to be a bit too boosted for my taste, making vocals sound a little more congested. EQing down that region makes it more enjoyable to me. But anyway, overall I still enjoy the Nicehck Traceless more, because being able to use foams with them makes them more comfortable for longer listening sessions, and I like default tuning out of the box a bit better. Probably a good chance that there are some variance going on (since these are pretty cheap still) and I got the shorter straw. 

But man.... these looks really nice. Like the clear shell. and the cable is pretty nice too compared to the Traceless especially.


----------



## Promenadeplatz

wskl said:


> Some info on the FiiO EM5 (in Chinese), not cheap though, *around 285usd*


----------



## KokushiTsumo (Jul 26, 2020)

Alright, got the Smabat ST10s 150ohm on friday (thanks a lot for the great deal @Promenadeplatz !). Used them with both full and donut foams so here are some impressions so far.

I've been listening to them for the majority of today, going through most of my music library again (yea, it's one of those upgrades). Not the best at describing sound but here goes nothing (comparing these to the Moondrop Shiroyuki, my previous earbuds). These feel way "fuller" if that makes sense, when compared to the Shiroyukis. From vocals to bass these do everything just better. The thing that surprised me the most was that these earbuds reproduce actual bass and subbass which goes deep...and manages to get close to the bass found on the Starfields, however the bass here is more detailed. These really shine with anything vocal heavy (a great example would be Nirvanas MTV Unplugged concert, sounds amazing here, especially with the wide soundstage.) or even bassy, ranging from electronic to rap. In fact I've had a hard time finding anything that doesn't sound great on these.

Soundstage is pretty earbud like, in other words pretty huge when compared to most IEMs. The sound is also very detailed across the spectrum, but I've noticed that the bass sometimes bleeds into the mids which might be due to me powering them from a relatively bad source (Oneplus X 3.5mm jack), however I have no issues with getting them up to a comfortable volume.  Compared to the Shiroyukis (at 32ohms) I don't have to push the volume much higher for these, ymmv.

My only real gripe with them would have to be the fit, I'm really not used to over the ear cabled earbuds but eh. They're not terribly uncomfortable but I'll definitely need some time to get used to them (as far as I know wearing them cable down doesn't work, at least not with the stock cable).

Anyone here that uses these with a more powerful source? I'd be interested in which changes that brings.


----------



## Promenadeplatz

I wore them cable down with no probs!!


----------



## cqtek

furyossa said:


> Thanks for this short review. I look forward to see the full review. I hope it will be soon.
> Can you compare them to Smabat ST-10S?


Thanks for your words, I'll do it as soon as I can.
But, by memory, they're two different profiles. Smabat has a larger lower zone, but the mids are better on ISN, they sound more balanced.


----------



## KokushiTsumo

Promenadeplatz said:


> I wore them cable down with no probs!!


Yea it kinda works, not that well due to the preformed earhooks. Otherwise its a pretty nice stock cable.


----------



## cenizas

KokushiTsumo said:


> Yea it kinda works, not that well due to the preformed earhooks. Otherwise its a pretty nice stock cable.


You could try cutting the earhooks off with a small scissors like those found in a sewing kit or very carefully with a pen knife, the earhooks are just heat shrink over the cable so as long as you don't knick the cable while cutting you can remove them fairly safely. Also, the shape is baked into the hooks and not the wire so after you cut off the hooks you can wear the cable straight down, which is my preference as well. I also recommend swapping left and right as I feel it fits better straight down.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

do not cut the hooks, the smabat st are designed to be worn behind the ear, this is the best fit for them


----------



## Sam L

furyossa said:


> Thanks for this short review. I look forward to see the full review. I hope it will be soon.
> Can you compare them to Smabat ST-10S?


I got both the Rambo II and the ST-10s black/silver version at the same time about a month ago. I'm listening to the Rambo as I'm writing this. I have not listened to the st-10s since opening the package. That's not to say the st-10s is lacking, but the Rambo's grabbed my attention and has held it since. 

I'll get back to the st-10s someday, once I work my way through all the aliexpress packages that finally got delivered.


----------



## Sam L

cqtek said:


> Thanks for your words, I'll do it as soon as I can.
> But, by memory, they're two different profiles. Smabat has a larger lower zone, but the mids are better on ISN, they sound more balanced.


From what I remember, the st-10s reach deeper but I prefer the quality of the Rambo's bass. The mids are better. There is also a slight bump around 500hz on the Rambo's compared to the Smabats. I could be wrong though. I'm waiting for my iec711 coupler to arrive then I can verify. 

I agree, the Rambo's are more balanced and they are more coherent all across the mids and treble during complex orchestral music (Ie. Beethoven 9th with chorus).


----------



## citral23

assassin10000 said:


> The best bright'ish signature buds I've had were the Nicehck EBX. They also had really good mids and good bass too.
> 
> The Ourart ACG was also very very good but not quite bright. More like it was DF tuned. Excellent mids and details without being harsh.



The Yincrow RW-1000 has much more treble than the EBX, but less shouty mids, excellent for some music (classical...) and too much for other.


----------



## Promenadeplatz

Sam L said:


> From what I remember, the st-10s reach deeper but I prefer the quality of the Rambo's bass. The mids are better. There is also a slight bump around 500hz on the Rambo's compared to the Smabats. I could be wrong though. I'm waiting for my iec711 coupler to arrive then I can verify.
> 
> I agree, the Rambo's are more balanced and they are more coherent all across the mids and treble during complex orchestral music (Ie. Beethoven 9th with chorus).


Any place other than Penon to acquire these?


----------



## waynes world

wskl said:


> Smabat M2 Pro - modular design, looks very interesting
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001267044768.html




I would so be breaking things lol


----------



## Sam L

I wasn't going to post any graphs of earbuds until I get my iec711 coupler, but since that's coming from aliexpress it might take several weeks.

These were generated with the Dayton imm6 at 10mm. Note, readings are horribly *inaccurate below 50hz and above 5khz.*
The Rambo's are my favorite of the bunch, with the Smabat's a close second. I have cleaned up the PK2 with the eq on my v60 but they aren't listened to very often.


----------



## Slater

Sam L said:


> I wasn't going to post any graphs of earbuds until I get my iec711 coupler, but since that's coming from aliexpress it might take several weeks.
> 
> These were generated with the Dayton imm6 at 10mm. Note, readings are horribly *inaccurate below 50hz and above 5khz.*
> The Rambo's are my favorite of the bunch, with the Smabat's a close second. I have cleaned up the PK2 with the eq on my v60 but they aren't listened to very often.



Do you have a plan on how to attach earbuds to a 711 coupler? I’ve wondered this myself.

Blue tax all around I guess would work. The other issue I see is that you don’t want to totally seal earbuds in the coupler, because it would be representative of what it actually sounds like in your ear. Even with foams there is sound leakage. If an earbud is totally sealed in the coupler, I imagine the sub bass would be skewed way off vs what you’d actually hear when wearing the same earbud.

Just curious how others measure their earbuds.


----------



## Sam L

one more with the Harman target compared and PK2 removed


----------



## Sam L

Slater said:


> Do you have a plan on how to attach earbuds to a 711 coupler? I’ve wondered this myself.
> 
> Blue tax all around I guess would work. The other issue I see is that you don’t want to totally seal earbuds in the coupler, because it would be representative of what it actually sounds like in your ear. Even with foams there is sound leakage. If an earbud is totally sealed in the coupler, I imagine the sub bass would be skewed way off vs what you’d actually hear when wearing the same earbud.
> 
> Just curious how others measure their earbuds.


Yeah, I've been pondering on how to connect everything, asked all over too... no answer.    Wondering if people are guarding their proprietary setups?

 Well, here's what I've come up with so far. I ordered this and plan to cannibalize it to accommodate the coupler and seal it at the connecting point (between coupler and ear mold). I'll be mindful to not add much distance on top of the coupler. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000308875071.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.ce6c4c4dWIo6gB


----------



## assassin10000

Sam L said:


> Yeah, I've been pondering on how to connect everything, asked all over too... no answer.    Wondering if people are guarding their proprietary setups?
> 
> Well, here's what I've come up with so far. I ordered this and plan to cannibalize it to accommodate the coupler and seal it at the connecting point (between coupler and ear mold). I'll be mindful to not add much distance on top of the coupler.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000308875071.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.ce6c4c4dWIo6gB



I had been considering getting an imm-6 and using a couple pieces of vinyl tube to neck up to a 17-18mm inner diameter (or whatever the size I need to capture the bud with foam on). Then cutting two quarter sections out of them so it doesn't seal all the way around. Similar to a flat head screw but with a way wider slot. It would look like the top of a 'H' if looking from the side.


Afaik several people just hold the earbud face against their coupler/mic and measure that way.


----------



## cenizas

Slater said:


> Do you have a plan on how to attach earbuds to a 711 coupler? I’ve wondered this myself.
> 
> Blue tax all around I guess would work. The other issue I see is that you don’t want to totally seal earbuds in the coupler, because it would be representative of what it actually sounds like in your ear. Even with foams there is sound leakage. If an earbud is totally sealed in the coupler, I imagine the sub bass would be skewed way off vs what you’d actually hear when wearing the same earbud.
> 
> Just curious how others measure their earbuds.


I tried blu tack, it just creates a full seal that's identical to pressing with force with foams against a flat plate attachment. I've been mulling over this as well, so far the best solution I've come up with is averaging a full seal and no seal. The relative values of bass, mids and treble seem fairly accurate when doing this and it's also very consistent, the only issue is that bass extension is still presented as far better than in reality. I've tried a 75% bias to unsealed as well but that starts screwing with the bass to mid highs balance, though you do get more accurate looking bass response. I'll post some of the graphs when I'm free. Ideally there'd be an affordable option for a b&k or gras pinna simulator, but unfortunately there isn't. @Sam L very interested in how that artifical ear will turn out, do update us. May I also ask how you're planning to cut out the space for the coupler?


----------



## Mboom

Just recieved snow lotus and iris. Snow lotus sounds like tinny crap, and the iris sounds 85 % better with uneven sound. Waste of money. wont be buying anything from them again.

Any other suggestion in the $6 - $50 Range ?


----------



## assassin10000

Anyone with the Yincrow RW-1000 Bass able to measure the O.D. with a caliper?


----------



## Slater

Mboom said:


> Just recieved snow lotus and iris. Snow lotus sounds like tinny crap, and the iris sounds 85 % better with uneven sound. Waste of money. wont be buying anything from them again.
> 
> Any other suggestion in the $6 - $50 Range ?



Just curious which version of the snow lotus you have? 1.0, 2.0, 1.0+ commemorative version, balanced?


----------



## Mboom

Slater said:


> Just curious which version of the snow lotus you have? 1.0, 2.0, 1.0+ commemorative version, balanced?




It was 1.0 clear shell.


----------



## Sam L

*Ex*


Mboom said:


> It was 1.0 clear shell.


Ahh. That's the problem. The commemorative plus version has a beefy, warm sound. Very different from what you're currently hearing


----------



## Sam L

Mboom said:


> Just recieved snow lotus and iris. Snow lotus sounds like tinny crap, and the iris sounds 85 % better with uneven sound. Waste of money. wont be buying anything from them again.
> 
> Any other suggestion in the $6 - $50 Range ?


I got 5 or 6 buds that came in recently in that price range. I'll try to post up recommendations later tonight


----------



## Hououin Kyouma

Mboom said:


> Just recieved snow lotus and iris. Snow lotus sounds like tinny crap, and the iris sounds 85 % better with uneven sound. Waste of money. wont be buying anything from them again.
> 
> Any other suggestion in the $6 - $50 Range ?


Which device did you use to drive the snow lotus? ALL 64ohm faaeal and above NEED enough power to sound right  My sl 1.0 sound really good with xduoo xd-05 plus, sound like crap with phones lmao


----------



## jeejack

AK DIY VIDO. Nice one


----------



## Mboom

Hououin Kyouma said:


> Which device did you use to drive the snow lotus? ALL 64ohm faaeal and above NEED enough power to sound right  My sl 1.0 sound really good with xduoo xd-05 plus, sound like crap with phones lmao



If my HD600's Sound good out of my phone or an ipod, Those earbuds should of. They sounded as if they were pulled away from your ears or like listening to radio. Getting burned Twice by the same company isnt a good look.  I saved the travel bags and foam covers.


----------



## munchzilla

hello!

I'm not sure if this exists, no specific budget - would be nice to keep it under $150 though... but, what I'm looking for is basically:
smaller shell, my ears don't really like the Toneking TO600 or Vido shells that I used to own. 
something  an inoffensive sound, no super spikes in the treble or upper midrange - would be nice to have decent staging though.
bass quality is more important than quantity, not a huge focus though.

for features - I'd like a cable that lasts, or replaceable cables, WITH a microphone! remote isn't super important but would be nice to have 

good build quality would also be nice, but I've never had anything other than a cable fail on me, so not sure how it would be bad...

and I have the Apple USB-C adapter, so nothing tooo demanding in terms of power 

thank you!


----------



## Sam L

munchzilla said:


> hello!
> 
> I'm not sure if this exists, no specific budget - would be nice to keep it under $150 though... but, what I'm looking for is basically:
> smaller shell, my ears don't really like the Toneking TO600 or Vido shells that I used to own.
> ...


I would almost heartily recommend the isn Rambo II's but they might be a tad large for you. I believe the vido's are a mx500 shell? Can anyone confirm?


----------



## furyossa (Aug 1, 2020)

has anyone tried this or any older model T-Music V5s


----------



## munchzilla

Sam L said:


> I would almost heartily recommend the isn Rambo II's but they might be a tad large for you. I believe the vido's are a mx500 shell? Can anyone confirm?



Interesting, never heard of these before!

14mm driver... that's 1.4mm smaller than Vido and Toneking TO600.
if the shell is small enough, this could be a good choice! 

MMCX cables means I can replace the cable with a microphone-enabled one? 

Thank you very much for the recommendation, I'll read up on it!


----------



## fonkepala (Aug 1, 2020)

Sam L said:


> I would almost heartily recommend the isn Rambo II's but they might be a tad large for you. I believe the vido's are a mx500 shell? Can anyone confirm?



Yes, vidos are mx500 shells.



Mboom said:


> Just recieved snow lotus and iris. Snow lotus sounds like tinny crap, and the iris sounds 85 % better with uneven sound. Waste of money. wont be buying anything from them again.
> 
> Any other suggestion in the $6 - $50 Range ?



And which version Iris was that?


----------



## fonkepala (Aug 1, 2020)

-deleted, duplicate post-


----------



## wskl (Aug 1, 2020)

munchzilla said:


> hello!
> 
> I'm not sure if this exists, no specific budget - would be nice to keep it under $150 though... but, what I'm looking for is basically:
> smaller shell, my ears don't really like the Toneking TO600 or Vido shells that I used to own.
> ...



Since you are an Apple user, are you ok with the earpod design?  There are a couple of earpod style earbuds with mmcx cables that might be of interest, **** PT25 and KP220.  If you search this thread, you can find comments on the PT25 but not the KP220.

EDIT: It seems that the brand has been censored, if you do not know what brand I'm talking about, send me a PM


----------



## munchzilla

wskl said:


> Since you are an Apple user, are you ok with the earpod design?  There are a couple of earpod style earbuds with mmcx cables that might be of interest, **** PT25 and KP220.  If you search this thread, you can find comments on the PT25 but not the KP220.
> 
> EDIT: It seems that the brand has been censored, if you do not know what brand I'm talking about, send me a PM



I was able to find them through Google - strange that they would censor it... but, the Earpods fit rather well actually - I used to have an iPhone a few years ago when the earpods were new. Didn't even know there were clones of it, that's really cool. PT25 looks discontinued however, is the KP220 supposed to be an upgrade of the same type of sound? it looks very different and possibly uncomfortable but hard to tell without trying them - they just look like they stick out a lot, but could be fine of course, would have to try them 

Very interesting, I'll have to read up on these as well, thank you for letting me know about them!

BTW, I use an Android phone, but the Apple USB-C adapter works with my phone (a Sony without headphone jack) and I thought it sounded good + it has microphone support, so that's why I got it.


----------



## genck

munchzilla said:


> I was able to find them through Google - strange that they would censor it.


It's not strange, see this post by @Slater 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/post-14135342


----------



## munchzilla

genck said:


> It's not strange, see this post by @Slater
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/post-14135342


ahh alright, I had no idea! that's very understandable then.


----------



## Sam L

Been listening to the monk 120 ohm tonight, I really like the sound quality from these earbuds - very headphone like, punches way above their weight.

What do you guys consider to be the best earbuds in the <$21 range?


----------



## baskingshark

Sam L said:


> Been listening to the monk 120 ohm tonight, I really like the sound quality from these earbuds - very headphone like, punches way above their weight.
> 
> What do you guys consider to be the best earbuds in the <$21 range?



BK2 (can be $21 during Aliexpress sales), RY4S 300 ohm, Faaeal Datura Pro (also can be $21 during sales).


----------



## fonkepala (Aug 2, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Been listening to the monk 120 ohm tonight, I really like the sound quality from these earbuds - very headphone like, punches way above their weight.
> 
> What do you guys consider to be the best earbuds in the <$21 range?



That Monk Lite 120ohm is a gem, imho (except for the cable which is meh). For other buds around $21, my vote goes to the BK2. Some have sung high praise for the ME80 as well and that's even cheaper but I haven't heard it yet so can't confirm. Currently I've fallen back in love with the Kube v2 (sells for ~USD5 where I am).


----------



## Sam L

Has anyone tried these? 

US $14.44  15%OFF | GM500 original in-ear Earphone 15mm music 300ohm  quality sound HIFI Earphone (MX500 style earphone) 3.5mm L Bending hifi cable
https://a.aliexpress.com/_dZ0GeW4


----------



## Edric Li (Aug 3, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> Here is some comparison I wrote for White Bell (*White Ling), Black Bell (*Black Ling) and Poseidon, intended for someplace else but I guess some of us might be interested in reading them as well:
> 
> I got my hands on a couple of K's earbuds over the last few years and they tend to share a similar house sound. Simply put, they more or less all have 'deep bass, sweet mid, smooth high and open soundstage'. All and all they are warm sounding earbuds that are good for mainstream vocal music, focusing on musicality rather than accuracy/details. When it comes to mainstream music, they can sound excellent, especially on conveying emotion, as long as the listener isn't looking for an analytical sound. This also means they are not the best choice for instruments or classical music. When it comes to White and Black Bell or Poseidon, the above still applies. Here is, however, what they are different in - White Bell is by far the most sensitive to how you wear it. While White and Black Bell share the same housing design, White's particular tuning tends to sound a bit hallow and distance if you get a loose fit. The shiny and smooth plated surface and the small housing really doesn't help to get a really good seal, even though it is quite comfortable. I do strongly recommend using foam, particularly donut or multi-holes variant, in order to get the rather full sounding White.to reveal itself. When you get it right, White will have the most upfront mid and the smallest soundstage (though not actually small) of all three of the newer K's, making it the most vocal-centric of the bunch and great for pop and rock. Black, on the other hand, doesn't care as much about fitting as White (though I still recommend donut or multi-holes foam) since its tuning doesn't highlight any particular frequency like the White, and tends to sound more consistent across the whole range with a wider soundstage and thus making it more versatile when it comes to different music genre. While Black's mid might not be as sweet as White, the overall balance is better. The biggest difference I have felt between the two is that White is more energetic where Black is more mature sounding. Poseidon, in comparison, is really more of a mid-point between the two, striking a really good balance while having the best soundstage and musicality of the three. In a way, Poseidon almost sounds like a full size can.
> 
> With this kind of high price tag, talking about price/performance ratio often becomes a moot point. You will definitely find better value in cheaper (though lesser sounding) options than these earbuds. Nonetheless, White and Black are still overall in and around the same high level of SQ as K's previous flagship, the 500ohm Samsara, making them still competitive over the other flagships / second tier. Poseidon, on the other hand, is truly among the best of the best out there. Whether it will suit a person is, however, more than just SQ, but also a preference in music and taste. For example, Liebesleid still excels in female vocal and detail where Poseidon holds more advantage over male vocal, etc.



I had the chance to audition K's "Bell-White E Bass Edition" in Guangzhou about a year ago. It was recommended to me by a shop assistant after I asked him whether there has been any substantial improvements in the earbuds world after MX985, something with more warmth. Saying that it blew my MX985 out of the water was an understatement. The K's was so warm and full, yet still managed to boast an imaging and soundstage 10x better than my MX985. MX985 sounded muffled, congested, plain and un-organic. And the Bell-White did it without a foam. It was such a dramatic improvement that I spent the entire afternoon listening to the Bell-White, before I was told that it wasn't even K's TOTL.

Here's my question: What improvement should I expect comparing the Bell-Ti to Bell-White? From what I understand, Bell-Ti is more balanced-sounding than Bell-White, which is probably not necessarily a plus in my book, as I usually like some warmth in the mids and a dense lower mids and dislike treble sparkles. Is Bell-Ti technically superior to Bell-White, e.g. image better? If price is not a factor, do you recommend me getting Bell-Ti and wear it with foams, or getting Bell-White and be happy with it? Thanks!


----------



## baskingshark (Aug 3, 2020)

I just received a review unit of the SMABAT M2 Pro. This little earbud packs a ton of innovative ideas with regards to customizing its sound signature (see below).






It comes with a silver plated MMCX cable, very well braided and of high quality. MMCX are easy to connect and disconnect (I know the first batch of SMABAT ST10 has MMCX issues). Like the predecessor SMABAT models, this M2 Pro can be worn over ear or cable down, and is light and comfortable.
It comes with a silicone cover and full foams. I find the full foams gives a warmer sound (though with slight loss of details) whereas the silicone covers makes the sound clearer and brighter with better microdetails. The upper mids/lower treble can get a bit hot with the silicone covers though, but I'm treble sensitive, so YMMV, and the basshead in me prefers the full foams.

So with regard to customizing the sound signature, other than the full foams vs silicone covers influencing the sound, the sound can also have multiple permutations:



It comes with 2 pairs of tuning modules in the box (the white circular thing in this picture). There's an option to get 3 aftermarket dome units/drivers (these are not included in the box and can be purchased separately).






The default tuning module which is preinstalled gives the sound a neutralish bright sound signature. Upper mids/lower treble are within my tolerances with full foams, but can be hot with the silicone covers. Bass is quite neutral with this on. (The dot to differentiate the different tuning modules is very very tiny and easy to miss, but this is the preinstalled option).






There's another pair of tuning modules in the box, it gives the sound a mild V shaped tuning. I installed this module cause I like my bass, but even with this, the subbass extends quite deep for a earbud but in terms of quantity is a bit anemic much like most other earbuds. Don't be expecting SMABAT ST10 type subbass quantities. Slight midbass bleed present but I like the added warmth in the lower mids with this module on. 

See this video on how to install the tuning modules:







Now to complicate matters, there is an option to install different driver units for the M2 Pro. The M2 Pro's Stock driver is a 15.4 mm dome titanium driver, but one can buy aftermarket full sized titanium unit, dome titanium membrane or even the ST10S black gold driver (these are not included in the box and u might need soldering skills to install these) (they can be bought from the SMABAT Aliexpress shop separately, details below in the pictures).

U can see this video on soldering and installing the driver units:












I think the SMABAT M2 Pro may indeed be the first earbud to incorporate this modular concept for different tuning modules and driver units, it would make DIYers very happy and give a wealth of tuning options, in addition to using the silicone covers/full foams. Sound quality is very good for a midfi earbud too (though the basshead in me would have liked more subbass). Timbre is great like other buds, vocals sound great without being overbearing on the tuning module type 1. Will do some burn in and leave a formal review soon.


EDIT: the above was tested with just a humble smartphone. With amping, the M2 Pro scales better, with deeper subbass extension and better dynamics.


----------



## cenizas

baskingshark said:


> I just received a review unit of the SMABAT M2 Pro. This little earbud packs a ton of innovative ideas with regards to customizing its sound signature (see below).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Would love a comparison with the st10


----------



## baskingshark

cenizas said:


> Would love a comparison with the st10



K, I read that there may be a retuned version of the ST10? Some say that it has different sound signature after they fixed the first batch with MMCX issues. Not sure which batch I got as I bought my ST10 second hand.

Yep and there are many possible permutations involved though in the M2 Pro's tuning! Too many options! It can be warm and bassy or more neutral and analytical depending on foam/silicone cover or tuning module used. And I initially tested the above M2 Pro with a smartphone, seems it scales better with amping, with better subbass extension and dynamics, so I think amping really lets it shine.

I'll do some more detailed A/B testing with the M2 Pro over the coming week, but FWIW, I just did a brief A/B using M2 Pro with full foams and tuning module 0 (ie V shaped). M2 Pro has better fit than ST10. I think M2 Pro has slightly thicker note weight but sounds more analoguish. The SMABAT ST10's bass is punchier and tighter. With amping, both sets have quite good subbass extension for a bud, maybe SMABAT ST10 has slightly more subbass quantity. M2 Pro has a slight midbass bleed with this tuning module 0 which obscures the mids a bit. Mids are slightly more detailed on SMABAT ST10. Technicalities are very close, will need to do some detailed comparisons to see which is better.


----------



## cenizas (Aug 3, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> K, I read that there may be a retuned version of the ST10? Some say that it has different sound signature after they fixed the first batch with MMCX issues. Not sure which batch I got as I bought my ST10 second hand.
> 
> Yep and there are many possible permutations involved though in the M2 Pro's tuning! Too many options! It can be warm and bassy or more neutral and analytical depending on foam/silicone cover or tuning module used. And I initially tested the above M2 Pro with a smartphone, seems it scales better with amping, with better subbass extension and dynamics, so I think amping really lets it shine.
> 
> I'll do some more detailed A/B testing with the M2 Pro over the coming week, but FWIW, I just did a brief A/B using M2 Pro with full foams and tuning module 0 (ie V shaped). M2 Pro has better fit than ST10. I think M2 Pro has slightly thicker note weight but sounds more analoguish. The SMABAT ST10's bass is punchier and tighter. With amping, both sets have quite good subbass extension for a bud, maybe SMABAT ST10 has slightly more subbass quantity. M2 Pro has a slight midbass bleed with this tuning module 0 which obscures the mids a bit. Mids are slightly more detailed on SMABAT ST10. Technicalities are very close, will need to do some detailed comparisons to see which is better.


Many thanks! Oh man, that does sound good. My only gripe with the black golds were the slightly thin mids and light note weight, the m2pro is starting to sound really promising. Sighhh 💸💸💸


----------



## baskingshark

cenizas said:


> Many thanks! Oh man, that does sound good. My only gripe with the black golds were the slightly thin mids and light note weight, the m2pro is starting to sound really promising. Sighhh 💸💸💸



Wow do u think it is worth it to buy the ST10S Black gold if you already own the original ST10?


----------



## kr0mka

Hey everyone, my ST10s golds are experiencing parasitic buzz when playing the headphone shaker from audiocheck (https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php)
Any way to make it go away? I don't want to damage the earbuds by blowing into them or something  Bought my pair from MissAudio store on aliexpress and the seller started blaming the source even after i mentioned that I've tested this both with my PC and Shanling M5s.


----------



## mochill

kr0mka said:


> Hey everyone, my ST10s golds are experiencing parasitic buzz when playing the headphone shaker from audiocheck (https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php)
> Any way to make it go away? I don't want to damage the earbuds by blowing into them or something  Bought my pair from MissAudio store on aliexpress and the seller started blaming the source even after i mentioned that I've tested this both with my PC and Shanling M5s.


Did you try to clean to plug and connector ?


----------



## robar

Hello guys, has anyone tried these Openheart earbuds?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001180479742.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001185272588.html


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Aug 4, 2020)

robar said:


> Hello guys, has anyone tried these Openheart earbuds?



FENGRU Diy PT52 and FENGRU Diy PT32 its the same without cable?


----------



## cenizas

baskingshark said:


> Wow do u think it is worth it to buy the ST10S Black gold if you already own the original ST10?


I actually haven't heard the original st10, just going based off comparisons between the st10 and st10s from others. I personally would skip the st10s unless you really love the smabat bass extension and don't mind a slightly odd tonality though the mids. The original st10 from impressions seem to have better timbre though the mids despite being thinner sounding. From what I heard from the the st10s, I gather the sweet spot for the smabat stuff is likely the $50-100 range, that's why I'm pretty keen on the m2pro haha


----------



## Slater (Aug 4, 2020)

Alex.Grimm said:


> FENGRU Diy PT52 and FENGRU Diy PT32 its the same without cable?



Do you know for sure? Because those are generic shells. I could buy those shells and some different driver and call them ‘slater audio x99‘. Externally, they would look the same. But the driver and tuning could be very different.

Also, the sensitivity is different between the PT32, PT52, and the openheart. This leads me to believe they’re all using different drivers.


----------



## assassin10000

kr0mka said:


> Hey everyone, my ST10s golds are experiencing parasitic buzz when playing the headphone shaker from audiocheck (https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php)
> Any way to make it go away? I don't want to damage the earbuds by blowing into them or something  Bought my pair from MissAudio store on aliexpress and the seller started blaming the source even after i mentioned that I've tested this both with my PC and Shanling M5s.



Only on the headphone shaker test? Fine with regular music? 

Does it go away if you turn the volume down? If so the driver could be touching the cover if it has enough extension/power.



There could be debris or a hair stuck inside the cover rattling against the driver. You could try facing the driver down and shaking the earbud while it plays a bass heavy song to see if you can get it out.

Blowing or sucking lightly shouldn't damage the drivers. But since if it already has a problem it is worth a shot.


----------



## rprodrigues

Hi there

I would like to get my first earbuds.
Is Toneking Tomahawk a good start point or I could get something better at the same price range ($30) ?


----------



## Sam L

rprodrigues said:


> Hi there
> 
> I would like to get my first earbuds.
> Is Toneking Tomahawk a good start point or I could get something better at the same price range ($30) ?


What kind of sound profile are you looking for? What iems do you currently enjoy?


----------



## kr0mka (Aug 5, 2020)

mochill said:


> Did you try to clean to plug and connector ?



Yes, also 2 different cables, I think this is a mechanical issue.



assassin10000 said:


> Only on the headphone shaker test? Fine with regular music?
> 
> Does it go away if you turn the volume down? If so the driver could be touching the cover if it has enough extension/power.
> 
> ...



It gets noticeable on tracks with a lot of sub bass when there isn't much of other frequencies. But in the main 2 genres I listen to (heavy guitar stuff) it gets masked away. But after hearing it on the bass shaker, the main effect here is the psychological one haha

Yeah, lowering the volume makes it less noticeable to the point of dissapearing. A light blow towards the driver mesh or the bass port gets rid of the buzz for a moment, I've also tried playing the bass shaker for a longer time than just once (10-15 mins) and it also helped. The main thing that's concerning me right now it's that this happens on both earbuds, first it happened on the left one, I started playing around with it and managed to make it go away and now it's happening on the right earbud with the same symptoms.

It's really weird if it's some debris, because I've been using these way shorter and with more care than my PT15 that have pretty similiar mesh on the driver and they don't experience this problem at all.


----------



## fonkepala

rprodrigues said:


> Hi there
> 
> I would like to get my first earbuds.
> Is Toneking Tomahawk a good start point or I could get something better at the same price range ($30) ?





Sam L said:


> What kind of sound profile are you looking for? What iems do you currently enjoy?



What music genres do you listen to? It might help us make better recommendations for you.


----------



## rprodrigues

Sam L said:


> What kind of sound profile are you looking for? What iems do you currently enjoy?



I prefer neutral to slightly warm sound. I like Tin T2, BGVP dh3 and Fiio fh7.


----------



## rprodrigues

fonkepala said:


> What music genres do you listen to? It might help us make better recommendations for you.



Hi there, fonkepala.

Mainly classic, jazz/blues, and rock.


----------



## jasonhpchu

Just gotten the Faaeal Iris:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33041471307.html
Shipping was pretty fast to Canada, compared to my other orders, about 2 weeks.

Build quality is excellent, bass is decent but not as nice (deep?) as the Elibuds Sabia.
But since can't get another Sabia, this will do.
Maybe after some burning in it'll sound nicer. 
I'm no audiophile, but this is still much nicer than any stock buds.


----------



## fonkepala

jasonhpchu said:


> Just gotten the Faaeal Iris:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33041471307.html
> Shipping was pretty fast to Canada, compared to my other orders, about 2 weeks.
> 
> ...



Is that the Iris 1.0 or 2.0? It's not specified on the AE page.


----------



## fonkepala

rprodrigues said:


> Hi there, fonkepala.
> 
> Mainly classic, jazz/blues, and rock.



Based on the buds that I have and for that price range of around USD30 and for listening to those genres with a neutral to slightly warmish sound sig, I'd recommend the EA buds from Penon. If you need detachable cables then the BK2 would be it, although it isn't warm. Hope this helps.


----------



## rprodrigues

fonkepala said:


> Based on the buds that I have and for that price range of around USD30 and for listening to those genres with a neutral to slightly warmish sound sig, I'd recommend the EA buds from Penon. If you need detachable cables then the BK2 would be it, although it isn't warm. Hope this helps.




Thank you!


----------



## fonkepala (Aug 6, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> Thank you!



No problem. Another to consider is the RY4S UE (~USD9) and the NiceHCK B40 (USD10). 

There are other members here with the Tomahawk series of buds (I don't), they might be able to chime in.


----------



## rprodrigues (Aug 6, 2020)

fonkepala said:


> No problem. Another to consider is the RY4S UE (~USD9) and the NiceHCK B40 (USD10).
> 
> There are other members here with the Tomahawk series of buds (I don't), they might be able to chime in.



I've ordered the  NiceHCK  MK500 PK1 and  the Tingo T200 (FENGRU) impulsively yesterday. They are so cheap I could not resist.

Are the more expensive ones really worth it? I mean, should I get any earbuds at $50 to really get a good performance?


----------



## rprodrigues

baskingshark said:


> I just received a review unit of the SMABAT M2 Pro.



Any additional impression about the Smabat M2 Pro?


----------



## baskingshark

rprodrigues said:


> Any additional impression about the Smabat M2 Pro?



I'll come up with a review maybe in the next 1 - 2 weeks or so. Sorry been very busy at work, and I've been testing the Urbanfun YBF and IBasso IT00 a lot this week, so they have taken up most of my listening time.


----------



## fonkepala (Aug 7, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> Are the more expensive ones really worth it? I mean, should I get any earbuds at $50 to really get a good performance?



Well, as with most audio gear, the quality generally improves as price goes up. But, with earbuds, the law of diminishing returns is particularly significant. There are some fantastic earbuds in the $50-$100 range, I'd guess. But there are also some very good earbuds in the under $50 bracket. Does a $100 earbud sound two times better than a $50 bud? Is it worth the doubling in price? Only you (and your wallet) can answer that. 

As with everything else, YMMV. Just my $0.02. Hope this is of assistance.


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 12, 2020)

Got these in last week, fresh off burn in.




These are the K's Bell LB, white version. These came in much larger box than my other ones I ordered last year, which were the black version.

I think these may be the updated ones as the distortion specs are different. Old was <1% and new is <0.5%. They also sound quite different.


The old ones were a somewhat mid-bassy, very warm, smooth analogue signature. Somewhat L-shaped with mids & highs a step back. Great rock buds.

These have more sub-bass, less mid-bass and while still warm, are more towards neutral with warmth in comparison. They have very good bass for a small driver (15mm), amongst the best I've heard for this size (15.0mm and under). The mids and highs are also much more forward and it is a balanced instead of somewhat L-shaped.


I'm quite pleasantly surprised, these lean more towards my preferences in sound sig. Comfort is of course outstanding. O.D. is 16.3mm, not quite as small as the original PK/Yuin/etc. but the superior ergonomics of the shell make them the most comfortable I've worn.


----------



## Zorba (Aug 7, 2020)

Smabat is selling each individual part of the M2 pro on their Aliexpress store.
You can have Smabat M2 Pro with no cable for around 25-33 euros (depending on the drivers you choose) if you already have a soldering iron.
If it is anything close to the ST-10S (Silver/Gold) it seems like great value.
Really interested in the upcoming baskingshark's review 

P.S: I asked and the price in the store is for 2 drivers


----------



## rprodrigues (Aug 7, 2020)

Zorba said:


> Smabat is selling each individual part of the M2 pro on their Aliexpress store.
> You can have Smabat M2 Pro with no cable for around 25-33 euros (depending on the drivers you choose) if you already have a soldering iron.
> If it is anything close to the ST-10S (Silver/Gold) it seems like great value.
> Really interested in the upcoming baskingshark's review
> ...



It sounds very interesting!
Have you asked them about the asked price for tuning filters being for a unit or for a pair?


----------



## Carrow

assassin10000 said:


> Got these in last week, fresh off burn in.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Where'd you get these because I definitely want a pair?


----------



## rprodrigues

Carrow said:


> Where'd you get these because I definitely want a pair?



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html


----------



## assassin10000

Carrow said:


> Where'd you get these because I definitely want a pair?





rprodrigues said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html



^ exactly. If you use the mobile app and follow Nicehck's store its about $4-5 cheaper.


----------



## Sam L (Aug 7, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> I've ordered the  NiceHCK  MK500 PK1 and  the Tingo T200 (FENGRU) impulsively yesterday. They are so cheap I could not resist.
> 
> Are the more expensive ones really worth it? I mean, should I get any earbuds at $50 to really get a good performance?



If you are comfortable with eq'ing your buds, then you'll feel massive diminishing returns at around $20 on. The mk500 you picked up, if memory serves, is v shaped, sounds excellent out of the box, but can be easily tweaked to your perfect preference.

I'm finding that earbuds generally eq well. The B40 is another $10 bud that pretty much captures 90% of the sound quality you can achieve from earbuds at any price


----------



## Slater

Sam L said:


> If you are comfortable with eq'ing your buds, then you'll feel massive diminishing returns at around $20 on. The mk500 you picked up, if memory serves, is v shaped, sounds excellent out of the box, but can be easily tweaked to your perfect preference.
> 
> I'm finding that earbuds generally eq well. The B40 is another $10 bud that pretty much captures 90% of the sound quality you can achieve from earbuds at any price



+1 on B40. After trying a handful of buds, I’m 100% happy with the B40 and don’t feel the need to amass a huge earbud collection. I’m not saying there isn’t better stuff out there, but rather like you said the B40 are about 90% ideal for me, and that’s A-OK in my book.


----------



## fonkepala

Sam L said:


> If you are comfortable with eq'ing your buds, then you'll feel massive diminishing returns at around $20 on. The mk500 you picked up, if memory serves, is v shaped, sounds excellent out of the box, but can be easily tweaked to your perfect preference.
> 
> I'm finding that earbuds generally eq well. The B40 is another $10 bud that pretty much captures 90% of the sound quality you can achieve from earbuds at any price



Can you tell me how to EQ my buds? I tried using the EQ in the Musicolet music app on my Fiio M6 but the results were not satisfactory. For one, there's a big drop in loudness when I turn the EQ on. So I just leave it to 'off'.


----------



## Sam L (Aug 8, 2020)

fonkepala said:


> Can you tell me how to EQ my buds? I tried using the EQ in the Musicolet music app on my Fiio M6 but the results were not satisfactory. For one, there's a big drop in loudness when I turn the EQ on. So I just leave it to 'off'.


Yeah, that drop is from the headroom. Some eq's have more than others and a few will allow you to set headroom parameters.

I use the eq on my v60. I also bounce back and forth between a pixel 4 and a note 10. When I'm on those devices I use the eq in the qudelix 5k. Power eq is an android app on the Google play store that is pretty decent. Lately, I've also been building compensation files for wavelet but that is proving time consuming and won't be very accurate until I get my iec711 coupler 
in.


----------



## fonkepala

Just got a shipment of buds in  Currently listening to the recabled Sony Ericsson HPM64 on the far left.

So. Much. Bass. 

They sound analog-ish, warm, good low end (quite well-controlled too). Not the most resolving or detailed of buds but I think they sound pretty good for the price I paid (about USD9). I'm a happy man  Can't wait to demo all the others after they've finished burn in.


----------



## fonkepala

Sam L said:


> Yeah, that drop is from the headroom. Some eq's have more than others and a few will allow you to set headroom parameters.
> 
> I use the eq on my v60. I also bounce back and forth between a pixel 4 and a note 10. When I'm on those devices I use the eq in the qudelix 5k. Power eq is an android app on the Google play store that is pretty decent. Lately, I've also been building compensation files for wavelet but that is proving time consuming and won't be very accurate until I get my iec711 couple in.



Ok, thanks for the info. I do most of my listening on desktop. Nevertheless, I'll check out Power EQ.


----------



## rprodrigues (Aug 8, 2020)

Sam L said:


> If you are comfortable with eq'ing your buds, then you'll feel massive diminishing returns at around $20 on. The mk500 you picked up, if memory serves, is v shaped, sounds excellent out of the box, but can be easily tweaked to your perfect preference.
> 
> I'm finding that earbuds generally eq well. The B40 is another $10 bud that pretty much captures 90% of the sound quality you can achieve from earbuds at any price




I don't EQ any of my cans and iems. I use them almost right out of the box with various sources as desktop amps, bluetooth DACs and even PS4. For iems, I only do some tips rolling and hardly swap cables.

I'd like to get some good midtier buds instead of stepping up from the bottom ones (please, forget I already ordered two cheaps ones.  ).
Previously, I ended up with about 10 cans and 10 iems until I reached good mid-tiers ones I considerer more than enought for me (fh7 and dh3 as iems and HD6xx, HE4xx, and DT990 pro as cans).


----------



## Sam L

fonkepala said:


> Ok, thanks for the info. I do most of my listening on desktop. Nevertheless, I'll check out Power EQ.


Oh, if you're on desktop, then peace eq is a great option. It's a plug in for apo equalizer.


----------



## Sam L

fonkepala said:


> Just got a shipment of buds in  Currently listening to the recabled Sony Ericsson HPM64 on the far left.
> 
> So. Much. Bass.
> 
> They sound analog-ish, warm, good low end (quite well-controlled too). Not the most resolving or detailed of buds but I think they sound pretty good for the price I paid (about USD9). I'm a happy man  Can't wait to demo all the others after they've finished burn in.



Your observations highlight the general characteristics of earbuds - they are, by in large, analog-ish in sound compared to iems and generally not as detailed. I have a couple of earbuds that might be considered as having strong detail retrieval for earbuds, but then I put on my it00 and realize what real detail retrieval sounds like. 

Yet, we love our earbuds for the unique way that they present sound. I am still maybe 60/40 between listening to music on earbuds vs iems.


----------



## Sam L

fonkepala said:


> That Monk Lite 120ohm is a gem, imho (except for the cable which is meh). For other buds around $21, my vote goes to the BK2. Some have sung high praise for the ME80 as well and that's even cheaper but I haven't heard it yet so can't confirm. Currently I've fallen back in love with the Kube v2 (sells for ~USD5 where I am).


Yeah, the cable on the monk 120 ohm is disappointing, taking forever to work out the memory kinks from being packaged. But I'm finding them a tad easier to handle now.

The me80 at first listen are fantastic.


----------



## Sam L (Aug 8, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> I don't EQ any of my cans and iems. I use them almost right out of the box with various sources as desktop amps, bluetooth DACs and even PS4. For iems, I only do some tips rolling and hardly swap cables.
> 
> I'd like to get some good midtier buds instead of stepping up from the bottom ones (please, forget I already ordered two cheaps ones.  ).
> Previously, I ended up with about 10 cans and 10 iems until I reached good mid-tiers ones I considerer more than enought for me (fh7 and dh3 as iems and HD6xx, HE4xx, and DT990 pro as cans).


You only need these two earbuds, given the equipment you listed and your listening habits.

Monk lite 120 ohm and the ISN Rambo II. Both sound fantastic out of the box. The monks kind of have the sennheiser veil, but it's subtle and easily dismissable


----------



## fonkepala

Sam L said:


> Your observations highlight the general characteristics of earbuds - they are, by in large, analog-ish in sound compared to iems and generally not as detailed. I have a couple of earbuds that might be considered as having strong detail retrieval for earbuds, but then I put on my it00 and realize what real detail retrieval sounds like.
> 
> Yet, we love our earbuds for the unique way that they present sound. I am still maybe 60/40 between listening to music on earbuds vs iems.



Yup, you're right. By and large, more than a fair share of buds have that characteristic. I do like that warm, analog-ish sound. It's non-fatiguing and makes for a fun, easy listen. Some buds have this trait to a greater degree than others, e.g. the ANN N200 and Kube 2, to name a couple. 

But, some days, I'm up for a bit of critical listening and that's when I want to hear more of what's in a track. Since I'm averse to IEM's now, that's when I break out something that's brighter and affords more clarity...say the HE150, JVC Victor or even the TY Hi-Z 32  Lots to choose from. That's a big part of the fun of the earbuds 'game'.



Sam L said:


> Yeah, the cable on the monk 120 ohm is disappointing, taking forever to work out the memory kinks from being packaged. But I'm finding them a tad easier to handle now.
> 
> The me80 at first listen are fantastic.



Yup. I wish VE would've given the Monk Lite 120 a better cable. It's so bad. 

The ME80 is next in line for burn-in. I'm looking forward to having a listen with them. Currently trying the Kube v1


----------



## darmanastartes

kr0mka said:


> Hey everyone, my ST10s golds are experiencing parasitic buzz when playing the headphone shaker from audiocheck (https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php)
> Any way to make it go away? I don't want to damage the earbuds by blowing into them or something  Bought my pair from MissAudio store on aliexpress and the seller started blaming the source even after i mentioned that I've tested this both with my PC and Shanling M5s.


I experienced this with my pair of ST-10's (the original, not the S version). What I had to do to fix it was remove the vent grills and reglue them back on.


----------



## dabaiyan

I got this pair of earbud from penon as one of the free gifts that you can choose when you order from them. Very pleasantly surprised by the quality, it's an all metal build with detachable mmcx cable, the fit is good for my rather small ears, I currently wear them with the cable over my ears. It also comes with 10 pairs of foams and a shirt clip.
The sound is pretty impressive, the bass reaches very deep with good texture and slam, very impressive for an earbud. Mids are forward, bordering on shouty, but it can be fixed with full foams, treble is a airy and smooth, with some good details, and not sibilant . Although it is kind of a closed design with no vent hole, so the soundstage is relatively small for an earbud.
I looked on penon's website and couldn't find which earbud it is, wonder if anyone on the forum knows.


----------



## rprodrigues (Aug 9, 2020)

Sam L said:


> You only need these two earbuds, given the equipment you listed and your listening habits.
> 
> Monk lite 120 ohm and the ISN Rambo II. Both sound fantastic out of the box. The monks kind of have the sennheiser veil, but it's subtle and easily dismissable



Thank you.

I will take a deep look at them.


----------



## jasswolf

Well now I'm confused... I've seen people calling the MX500 neutral and exceptional (perhaps the 2019 update rather than the original), the B40 with strong base performance but awful rolled off treble and now I'm seeing people saying the MX500 is v-shaped and the B40 is the inflexion point for value?

Given the naming schemes are based around shell designs, can we confirm everybody is discussing the same earbuds?


----------



## tuleggi (Aug 10, 2020)

Hi,
I have been out of the scene since a bit. I was lucky enough to find few years ago a pair of old stock sennheiser mx 980 which I still enjoy on a daily basis. Some years ago I have been trying a cheap Chinese earbuds sub-10 dollars on AliExpress - called Monk Plus - that someone in the forum said they were comparable to the sennheiser, they were not by far - they are still in the drawer.
Now my mx980 have the plastic of the cable which is completely opening up, do you know any tricks to save it?
Also have you a serious alternative to suggest please? Be aware that I also loved the sound of the sennheiser mx 880, unfortunately I do not have them anymore but from memory strangely enough I liked them probably more than the mx980.
Cheers!


----------



## fonkepala

jasswolf said:


> Well now I'm confused... I've seen people calling the MX500 neutral and exceptional (perhaps the 2019 update rather than the original), the B40 with strong base performance but awful rolled off treble and now I'm seeing people saying the MX500 is v-shaped and the B40 is the inflexion point for value?
> 
> Given the naming schemes are based around shell designs, can we confirm everybody is discussing the same earbuds?



Probably just a case of unit variation or more likely subjective hearing?


----------



## jasswolf

fonkepala said:


> Probably just a case of unit variation or more likely subjective hearing?


I mean there's definitely been a recent revision of the NiceHCK MX500, complete with a price change.


----------



## kr0mka

darmanastartes said:


> I experienced this with my pair of ST-10's (the original, not the S version). What I had to do to fix it was remove the vent grills and reglue them back on.



Will try that later. Did you use any particular type of glue? Or just remove the grilles, clean the port by blowing some air inside and reglue with same adhesive remaining on the grilles?


----------



## Sam L (Aug 10, 2020)

argh... how far into the "rabbit hole" does this hobby go? Here are the variances between the blue foam that comes with monks vs a generic grey foam. Not a big deal but it's a consistent 2-3dB difference on the lower end


----------



## Nool

Sam L said:


> From what I remember, the st-10s reach deeper but I prefer the quality of the Rambo's bass. The mids are better. There is also a slight bump around 500hz on the Rambo's compared to the Smabats. I could be wrong though. I'm waiting for my iec711 coupler to arrive then I can verify.
> 
> I agree, the Rambo's are more balanced and they are more coherent all across the mids and treble during complex orchestral music (Ie. Beethoven 9th with chorus).



Could you comment on the differences between the attack/detail and timbre of the two? Also just how competent is the treble extension of the Rambo II, do cymbals come in strong and lively, or more cheap and tizzy?

Thanks for your impressions. Was looking at the 40ohm ST10s, though I'm happy to sacrifice bass quantity for better overall timbre & presentation. Being able to wear cable down is a plus as well.


----------



## assassin10000

Sam L said:


> I've been pondering how to cheaply couple my calibrated mic to measure earbuds.
> 
> I asked awhile back but got no response, so I'll post this again in case it catches someone's eye willing to share thoughts on diy graphing solutions for ear buds.
> 
> ...





Sam L said:


> I wasn't going to post any graphs of earbuds until I get my iec711 coupler, but since that's coming from aliexpress it might take several weeks.
> 
> These were generated with the Dayton imm6 at 10mm. Note, readings are horribly *inaccurate below 50hz and above 5khz.*
> The Rambo's are my favorite of the bunch, with the Smabat's a close second. I have cleaned up the PK2 with the eq on my v60 but they aren't listened to very often.





Sam L said:


> Yeah, I've been pondering on how to connect everything, asked all over too... no answer.    Wondering if people are guarding their proprietary setups?
> 
> Well, here's what I've come up with so far. I ordered this and plan to cannibalize it to accommodate the coupler and seal it at the connecting point (between coupler and ear mold). I'll be mindful to not add much distance on top of the coupler.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000308875071.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.ce6c4c4dWIo6gB





Sam L said:


> argh... how far into the "rabbit hole" does this hobby go? Here are the variances between the blue foam that comes with monks vs a generic grey foam. Not a big deal but it's a consistent 2-3dB difference on the lower end



Did you ever figure out a good setup for measuring earbuds? I've got a Dayton IMM-6 on the way.

Also is that last graph with the 711 coupler or IMM-6?


----------



## Sam L

assassin10000 said:


> Did you ever figure out a good setup for measuring earbuds? I've got a Dayton IMM-6 on the way.
> 
> Also is that last graph with the 711 coupler or IMM-6?



1. re: setup for earbuds. 
Still figuring things out. It gets really tricky because there are noticeable variations to the graph depending on how much pressure the bud is held against the mic/coupler. I try to hold them loosely because this approximates real life use case, no one constantly pushes their earbuds against their head.

2. last graph was with coupler, but my sound card wasn't calibrated. Not only do you need to ideally have a calibrated mic (ala imm-6) but sound cards require calibration as well.


----------



## Sam L (Aug 10, 2020)

Nool said:


> Could you comment on the differences between the attack/detail and timbre of the two? Also just how competent is the treble extension of the Rambo II, do cymbals come in strong and lively, or more cheap and tizzy?
> 
> Thanks for your impressions. Was looking at the 40ohm ST10s, though I'm happy to sacrifice bass quantity for better overall timbre & presentation. Being able to wear cable down is a plus as well.


after I calibrate my setup, I'll make graphs of the smabat and rambo. The rambo do not have as much trreble extension as the smabat but the quality of sound coming out of the rambo's is noticeably better across the entire range. From memory, cymbals sadly are not strong and lively, but they are definitely not cheap sounding either, maybe just a tad less forward than the smabats.


----------



## Sam L

Sam L said:


> 1. re: setup for earbuds.
> Still figuring things out. It gets really tricky because there are noticeable variations to the graph depending on how much pressure the bud is held against the mic/coupler. I try to hold them loosely because this approximates real life use case, no one constantly pushes their earbuds against their head.
> 
> 2. last graph was with coupler, but my sound card wasn't calibrated. Not only do you need to ideally have a calibrated mic (ala imm-6) but sound cards require calibration as well.


I'm actually kind of disappointed that the coupler mic has no compensation info. I am considering cannabalizing it for the imm-6 since I have the compensation values for that mic.


----------



## cenizas

Sam L said:


> 1. re: setup for earbuds.
> Still figuring things out. It gets really tricky because there are noticeable variations to the graph depending on how much pressure the bud is held against the mic/coupler. I try to hold them loosely because this approximates real life use case, no one constantly pushes their earbuds against their head.
> 
> 2. last graph was with coupler, but my sound card wasn't calibrated. Not only do you need to ideally have a calibrated mic (ala imm-6) but sound cards require calibration as well.


The issue I've found is that there's no way to hold the buds loosely consistently, when I try that every measurement I take has variation in the bass, have you found a solution for that?


----------



## Sam L

cenizas said:


> The issue I've found is that there's no way to hold the buds loosely consistently, when I try that every measurement I take has variation in the bass, have you found a solution for that?


Yes, it's a tricky problem. I'm waiting for this to mod. 

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000308875071.html


----------



## cqtek

Hi, everybody.

I just posted my latest review, about ISN Rambo II.
I have to admit that I liked them very, very much.
I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/isn-rambo-ii.24542/reviews#item-review-24104


----------



## Alex.Grimm

https://moonstarreviews.net/isn-audio-rambo-ii-review/


----------



## Sam L

cqtek said:


> Hi, everybody.
> 
> I just posted my latest review, about ISN Rambo II.
> I have to admit that I liked them very, very much.
> ...


wow, great review -- obvious you put a ton of work in it! Thank you for posting this. The Rambo II's are my favorite earbuds and they deserve more exposure.


----------



## cqtek

Sam L said:


> wow, great review -- obvious you put a ton of work in it! Thank you for posting this. The Rambo II's are my favorite earbuds and they deserve more exposure.


Thank you. I actually work the same amount of time for all of them, only sometimes some work out better than others...


----------



## tuleggi

cqtek said:


> Thank you. I actually work the same amount of time for all of them, only sometimes some work out better than others...


Hi by chance are you also able to compare with the Seinnheiser mx980? Where those rambo2 would fit in comparison? Thanks - See my question here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15794418


----------



## cqtek

tuleggi said:


> Hi by chance are you also able to compare with the Seinnheiser mx980? Where those rambo2 would fit in comparison? Thanks - See my question here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15794418


Sorry, I don't have this model.


----------



## Slater (Aug 11, 2020)

Got the Snow Lotus 1.0 today. I’m not really feeling it at all. Dark, muddy, veiled, mids and treble are really distant.

And yes, I’m feeding it loads of power (FiiO A5). Amplification is not the problem; the tuning is. Maybe I’m doing something wrong - do these usually require doughnuts? Or did I make and mistake and was supposed to get the Snow Lotus 2.0 instead?

I also got the RY4S Plus. Sounds way better than the Snow Lotus, especially balanced. Treble is a bit dry sounding, and upper mids can get a little shouts on some tracks. But other than that they’re not bad.

My bigger issue with them is that by the time I attach a mmcx cable, it’s about 2.5” long which is ridiculously unruly to wear. Now I know why @assassin10000 cuts down all of his DIY mmcx earbud shells. I’ll have to do the same thing to these, or else they won’t really be usable as is.


----------



## baskingshark

Slater said:


> Got the Snow Lotus 1.0 today. I’m not really feeling it at all. Dark, muddy, veiled, mids and treble are really distant.
> 
> And yes, I’m feeding it loads of power (FiiO A5). Amplification is not the problem; the tuning is. Maybe I’m doing something wrong - do these usually require doughnuts? Or did I make and mistake and was supposed to get the Snow Lotus 2.0 instead?
> 
> ...



If u like the RY4S plus, then consider getting the RY4S 300 ohm. Needs amping, but it is more balanced with better bass speed and quality (though RY4S plus has more bass quantity). RY4S 300 ohm has a slight upper mids boost, but not as harsh as the RY4S plus. The only thing holding the RY4S 300 ohm back from competing with some higher end stuff like the SMABATs is probably the mids lack a bit of detail and the subbass doesn't extend very deep, but I think it is still very good for $15 or so.


----------



## Slater

baskingshark said:


> If u like the RY4S plus, then consider getting the RY4S 300 ohm. Needs amping, but it is more balanced with better bass speed and quality (though RY4S plus has more bass quantity). RY4S 300 ohm has a slight upper mids boost, but not as harsh as the RY4S plus. The only thing holding the RY4S 300 ohm back from competing with some higher end stuff like the SMABATs is probably the mids lack a bit of detail and the subbass doesn't extend very deep, but I think it is still very good for $15 or so.



Sure, I’ll consider it. Thanks for the tip!


----------



## thehientk

Nicehck B40 and Nicehck ME80. I need someone review and compare. Thank.....


----------



## Sam L

Slater said:


> Got the Snow Lotus 1.0 today. I’m not really feeling it at all. Dark, muddy, veiled, mids and treble are really distant.
> 
> And yes, I’m feeding it loads of power (FiiO A5). Amplification is not the problem; the tuning is. Maybe I’m doing something wrong - do these usually require doughnuts? Or did I make and mistake and was supposed to get the Snow Lotus 2.0 instead?
> 
> ...



I'm guessing you didn't get the 1+ commemorative edition? Totally different sound from the 1.0. The commemorative edition is waaaaay better, but it is still a warm sounding bud.


----------



## Slater

Sam L said:


> I'm guessing you didn't get the 1+ commemorative edition? Totally different sound from the 1.0. The commemorative edition is waaaaay better, but it is still a warm sounding bud.



No, I got the regular old 1.0


----------



## assassin10000

Slater said:


> My bigger issue with them is that by the time I attach a mmcx cable, it’s about 2.5” long which is ridiculously unruly to wear. Now I know why @assassin10000 cuts down all of his DIY mmcx earbud shells. I’ll have to do the same thing to these, or else they won’t really be usable as is.



Yeah, partly the reason. Mostly for easy over ear use.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Yeah, partly the reason. Mostly for easy over ear use.


Or MX500 variant https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15456646


----------



## RikudouGoku (Aug 12, 2020)

I finally got my adapter (2.5mm to 4.4mm) so I can finally use my Snow lotus 2.5mm.

And I honestly see no reason to get this over the NiceHCK MX500. Sure the instrument separation and detail is a tiny bit better, but the bass is a bit looser and the cable...has tons of microphonics (without any music, just by touching the cable with your fingers you can hear it quite a lot...).

It costs more than double the price but it doesnt do anything better, they are side-grades. (they are both really good so dont get me wrong, I just wouldnt pay this much for a tiny side-grade (not much different).)

Grade: A+


Wont review it since it is so similar to the mx500, so just read my review on that one to get a picture on this one.

EDIT: 


Spoiler: Snow lotus 2.5mm



















Forgot to mention but the cable is also very sticky, does not look or feel good at all (makes it feel very similar to the 0-10 usd KZ iem cables...)


----------



## bigtim

Yincrow X6 - just cos they look pretty 😍


----------



## fonkepala

Slater said:


> Got the Snow Lotus 1.0 today. I’m not really feeling it at all. Dark, muddy, veiled, mids and treble are really distant.



People say the Snow Lotus 1.0+ Commemorative Edition (blue shells) is where it's at.


----------



## fonkepala

RikudouGoku said:


> I finally got my adapter (2.5mm to 4.4mm) so I can finally use my Snow lotus 2.5mm.
> 
> And I honestly see no reason to get this over the NiceHCK MX500. Sure the instrument separation and detail is a tiny bit better, but the bass is a bit looser and the cable...has tons of microphonics (without any music, just by touching the cable with your fingers you can hear it quite a lot...).
> 
> ...



Ughh, I hate that type of cable. The KZ-ish ones. You're right, they have tons of microphonics and are sticky and quite stiff to boot. Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts on the Snow Lotus 2.5mm.


----------



## kr0mka

RikudouGoku said:


> I finally got my adapter (2.5mm to 4.4mm) so I can finally use my Snow lotus 2.5mm.
> 
> And I honestly see no reason to get this over the NiceHCK MX500. Sure the instrument separation and detail is a tiny bit better, but the bass is a bit looser and the cable...has tons of microphonics (without any music, just by touching the cable with your fingers you can hear it quite a lot...).
> 
> ...



Didn't hear the Snow lotus, but my Rosemary 2.5mm arrived a couple days ago and while I share the same thoughts about the cable, I'm positively surprised by the sound 


Spoiler








Comparing them with the ST-10S Gold they seem to have less sub bass and high sparkle, but more mid bass and mids themself, which makes the guitars sound fuller. Overal the response seems flatter than ST-10S, I'd even say it's HD650-like but I'd need to listen a bit more between the two. The soundstage feels a bit more narrow overall. I use them mainly for rock/metal music and they perform pretty good there 

Yeah, about the cable. It looks nice but it's really stiff and doesn't like to be twisted. The microphonics are pretty bad too.

Overall the Rosemary seems nice, no idea if Faaeal changed anything aside from the cable in this model compared to the regular 3.5 version, but the listing on aliexpress was taken down after I bought this 1 pair, and my order was the only one looking at the archived listing in my order history.

Maybe it was a test run? Is there anyone else here with 2.5 TRRS Rosemary?


----------



## buffalobill

Does anybody use earbuds on high-impedance tube amplifier with good results?


----------



## MisterMudd

fonkepala said:


> People say the Snow Lotus 1.0+ Commemorative Edition (blue shells) is where it's at.


It is!


----------



## Slater

fonkepala said:


> People say the Snow Lotus 1.0+ Commemorative Edition (blue shells) is where it's at.



I’ve read that as well. I hope the commemorative edition is more than just a different cable though, because I can change that myself. But I’ll give the CE a shot during the next Aliexpress sale.


----------



## baskingshark

cenizas said:


> Would love a comparison with the st10



Hi @cenizas, I did further A/B testing this week for the SMABAT M2 Pro vs the original SMABAT ST10.

This is using full foams with tuning module 0 (ie V shaped and bassier tuning module) on the SMABAT M2 Pro:

The ST10 has better bass extension and quantity even with the SMABAT M2 Pro on the most bassy config as above.
The ST10's note weight is slightly thinner with a slightly cooler tonality and less authentic timbre than the SMABAT M2 Pro. M2 Pro sounds more analoguish and nebulous.
SMABAT M2 Pro has slightly more recessed lower mids. 
Technicalities wise, the ST10 is ahead, with better soundstage, better imaging, instrument separation, clarity and details on the ST10. In fact imaging and instrument separation are one step behind on the SMABAT M2 Pro compared to the ST10, especially when it comes to complex tracks.
Fit wise, the ST10 is larger and slightly less comfortable.
Since you own the Black Gold version, which is the supposed successor and upgrade over the original SMABAT ST10, and with the M2 Pro already losing to the ST10 in technicalities, I would suppose the M2 Pro would also be a downgrade for you in the area of technicalities. Never heard the Black Gold or Black Silver ST10S sets, so I'm not sure how their timbre is, but probably SMABAT ST10S Black Gold and Black Silver are still deserving of the flagship status even with the new kid on the block in the M2 Pro.


----------



## assassin10000

Which version of the ST-10 did you compare with, if you know it? (v1, v2 or v3?)


----------



## fonkepala (Aug 13, 2020)

Slater said:


> I’ve read that as well. I hope the commemorative edition is more than just a different cable though, because I can change that myself. But I’ll give the CE a shot during the next Aliexpress sale.



My Snow Lotus CE will arrive in a few days' time. If you want, I can give a short impression of it. However, I don't have a 'vanilla' Snow Lotus (1.0 nor 2.0) to compare it with. I do have an Iris 2.0, though.


----------



## snowmind

EMX500 Bro is a real killer among low-cost buds. It is not as dark as Vido, it is not as light as RY4S, it is not cloudy like Faaeal Iris 1.0.

The sound is soft and fun, it has energy and punch for heavy genres and articulation for calmer songs, with balanced highs and mids, there is also a pleasant and controlled increase of sub-bass. It is a bud that plays almost everything well, with great tonality, layers and separation.

The overall quality surpasses all the buttons mentioned, costing only one coffee depending on your location. When you finish reading this, you should order some units, considering the huge benefit in exchange for little money, it is impossible for you to fail with it.


----------



## fonkepala

snowmind said:


> EMX500 Bro is a real killer among low-cost buds. It is not as dark as Vido, it is not as light as RY4S, it is not cloudy like Faaeal Iris 1.0.
> 
> The sound is soft and fun, it has energy and punch for heavy genres and articulation for calmer songs, with balanced highs and mids, there is also a pleasant and controlled increase of sub-bass. It is a bud that plays almost everything well, with great tonality, layers and separation.
> 
> The overall quality surpasses all the buttons mentioned, costing only one coffee depending on your location. When you finish reading this, you should order some units, considering the huge benefit in exchange for little money, it is impossible for you to fail with it.



Sounds good! Any particular shell color sounds better than others?


----------



## rprodrigues

baskingshark said:


> Hi @cenizas, I did further A/B testing this week for the SMABAT M2 Pro vs the original SMABAT ST10.
> ...



Smabat sells the driver of the black gold version of ST-10s for the M2 Pro. 

It would be a good experiment to see how the M2 Pro with such a driver holds against the same ST-10s version.


----------



## baskingshark

assassin10000 said:


> Which version of the ST-10 did you compare with, if you know it? (v1, v2 or v3?)



Wow there are 3 versions? I only knew about 2 LOL.

I am really not sure which version I have of the ST10 as I bought mine off a second hand shop. The MMCX seem quite sturdy and the tuning seems to be mostly neutralish with a bass boost, so you have any idea which version it could be?



rprodrigues said:


> Smabat sells the driver of the black gold version of ST-10s for the M2 Pro.
> 
> It would be a good experiment to see how the M2 Pro with such a driver holds against the same ST-10s version.



Yeah that would be interesting indeed. However, I have minimal soldering skills haha. So would need some of the more hands on folks here to try this if they have the extra bandwidth to.

Though even with the same driver, I would think other things like shell size/material/shape and damping materials may change the sound signature too.


----------



## rprodrigues

baskingshark said:


> ...
> Though even with the same driver, I would think other things like shell size/material/shape and damping materials may change the sound signature too.



I think that too.


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 13, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Wow there are 3 versions? I only knew about 2 LOL.
> 
> I am really not sure which version I have of the ST10 as I bought mine off a second hand shop. The MMCX seem quite sturdy and the tuning seems to be mostly neutralish with a bass boost, so you have any idea which version it could be?



I put pics up of the new vs old, which would be V1 & V2. I don't know if there is an external way to tell between V2 & V3.

The green anodizing on V2 was not quite as nice as V1 as well, iirc.

Pics:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2809#post-14962463

Versions:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3047#post-15286443


----------



## cenizas

baskingshark said:


> Hi @cenizas, I did further A/B testing this week for the SMABAT M2 Pro vs the original SMABAT ST10.
> 
> This is using full foams with tuning module 0 (ie V shaped and bassier tuning module) on the SMABAT M2 Pro:
> 
> ...


That's really helpful, thanks for the detailed impressions!


----------



## thehientk

I have a question, niceNCK ME80 really need burn in ?


----------



## tuleggi (Aug 14, 2020)

tuleggi said:


> Hi,
> I have been out of the scene since a bit. I was lucky enough to find few years ago a pair of old stock sennheiser mx 980 which I still enjoy on a daily basis. Some years ago I have been trying a cheap Chinese earbuds sub-10 dollars on AliExpress - called Monk Plus - that someone in the forum said they were comparable to the sennheiser, they were not by far - they are still in the drawer.
> Now my mx980 have the plastic of the cable which is completely opening up, do you know any tricks to save it?
> Also have you a serious alternative to suggest please? Be aware that I also loved the sound of the sennheiser mx 880, unfortunately I do not have them anymore but from memory strangely enough I liked them probably more than the mx980.
> Cheers!


Hi, as no-one was able to reply to my questions (you can still do it  ) I have ordered some smabat ST10, hopefully they are good enough in comparison to the sennheiser MX980 I own. I will let you know, even though I am not used to in depth review as some of you I can tell you at least what my ears (similar than yours) prefers or detect 
Before ordering the ST10 I was in doubt with the RamboII which seems to have a large spectrum range but I could not see any comparison of them with the ST10 and it appears from reading the forum the ST10 are top of the line.


----------



## Slater

thehientk said:


> I have a question, niceNCK ME80 really need burn in ?



Mine sounded good right OOTB. But a few hours of burn in certainly isn’t going to hurt anything.


----------



## fonkepala (Aug 14, 2020)

thehientk said:


> I have a question, niceNCK ME80 really need burn in ?



I put all my earbuds (headphones too) through some burn-in period as a matter of course. Won't hurt.


----------



## Mboom

NiceHCK ME80 and Vido arrived. In less than 5 minutes of testing both , already make FAAEL sound even worse. Never again buying from that crap company. Bass wise for both, I'm guessing you'd have to either turn volume up to get a little thump, eq or get an amp ? They sure don't sound like iris and snow lotus radio static junk. Best of all ? No channel imbalance I can detect.


----------



## fonkepala

Mboom said:


> NiceHCK ME80 and Vido arrived. In less than 5 minutes of testing both , already make FAAEL sound even worse. Never again buying from that crap company. Bass wise for both, I'm guessing you'd have to either turn volume up to get a little thump, eq or get an amp ? They sure don't sound like iris and snow lotus radio static junk. Best of all ? No channel imbalance I can detect.



Sorry to hear that. Which iteration of the Snow Lotus and Iris did you have a bad experience with?


----------



## thehientk

Slater said:


> Mine sounded good right OOTB. But a few hours of burn in certainly isn’t going to hurt anything.



I feel better bass after 30 hours burn in.


----------



## fonkepala

Listening to some tunes tonight using the Faaeal Iris 2.0. Good low end, mids are okay but I feel the timbre is slightly off (some instruments sound a bit weird). Vocals are nice and upfront, soundstage is spacious and separation is good as well. Treble sounds smooth and rolled off, no piercing highs, making the overall tone to be warm. I think the Iris 2.0 needs some power to shine. 

When I close my eyes and shut off the lights, I can get lost in the music without paying too much attention to the earbuds and its technicalities and/or capabilities (or lack thereof). That's a win in my book. 

Have a nice weekend everyone.


----------



## thehientk (Aug 15, 2020)

fonkepala said:


> Listening to some tunes tonight using the Faaeal Iris 2.0. Good low end, mids are okay but I feel the timbre is slightly off (some instruments sound a bit weird). Vocals are nice and upfront, soundstage is spacious and separation is good as well. Treble sounds smooth and rolled off, no piercing highs, making the overall tone to be warm. I think the Iris 2.0 needs some power to shine.
> 
> When I close my eyes and shut off the lights, I can get lost in the music without paying too much attention to the earbuds and its technicalities and/or capabilities (or lack thereof). That's a win in my book.
> 
> Have a nice weekend everyone.


Moondrop Shiro-Yuki, Faaeal Iris 2.0, NiceHCK B40 and Yincrow X6
Can you compare them?


----------



## luckyeights (Aug 16, 2020)

Been a long time since iv been on here.  How is everyone?   Last time I was here was maybe a year and a half ago haha so I'm sure alot has happened in the earbud world.  

Anyway i just ordered the blur 173 from wong seems to have alot of hype around it at least from him says its his best yet.   I was originally really interested in the d2+ but apparently the new blur Is better.  So here is hoping it lives up to it.

I'll post a review once I get them.   If anyone also ordered or already has em im curious of your thoughts.


----------



## fonkepala

luckyeights said:


> Been a long time since iv been on here.  How is everyone?   Last time I was here was maybe a year and a half ago haha so I'm sure alot has happened in the earbud world.
> 
> Anyway i just ordered the blur 173 from wong seems to have alot of hype around it at least from him says its his best yet.   I was originally really interested in the d2+ but apparently the new blur Is better.  So here is hoping it lives up to it.
> 
> I'll post a review once I get them.   If anyone also ordered or already has em im curious of your thoughts.



Congrats on your purchase of the Blur! If you don't mind, how much did you pay for it? I contacted him and wanted to get the 173 initially but decided in the end that it was too dear for me at the moment...plus with the current economic climate, overall uncertainty and a family to feed I just couldn't justify spending that much on earbuds  Maybe soon...

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on it. Again, grats!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

luckyeights said:


> Been a long time since iv been on here.  How is everyone?   Last time I was here was maybe a year and a half ago haha so I'm sure alot has happened in the earbud world.
> 
> Anyway i just ordered the blur 173 from wong seems to have alot of hype around it at least from him says its his best yet.   I was originally really interested in the d2+ but apparently the new blur Is better.  So here is hoping it lives up to it.
> 
> I'll post a review once I get them.   If anyone also ordered or already has em im curious of your thoughts.


Awesome! Patiently await to hear your thoughts on them once they arrive.

Blur Thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blur-earbuds-lovers.884062/post-14357627


----------



## fonkepala

thehientk said:


> Moondrop Shiro-Yuki, Faaeal Iris 2.0, NiceHCK B40 and Yincrow X6
> Can you compare them?



Out of those you mentioned, I only have the B40 and Iris 2.0. Will do a quick comparo between the two later. In the meantime, lots of info here on the B40 if you search for it. IIRC, others have reported that the Shiroyuki sounds detailed, bright but too bass-lean and grainy. Not too sure about the X6 but they're probably comparable to the Vidos.


----------



## stephengee77

Is there any list or good place to start getting an idea which earbuds are good? I haven't kept up with earbuds since 2016 and the be monk, and I was wondering what had changed.


----------



## MisterMudd

fonkepala said:


> Out of those you mentioned, I only have the B40 and Iris 2.0. Will do a quick comparo between the two later. In the meantime, lots of info here on the B40 if you search for it. IIRC, others have reported that the Shiroyuki sounds detailed, bright but too bass-lean and grainy. Not too sure about the X6 but they're probably comparable to the Vidos.


The Yincrow X6 by far dominates the Vido in all categories. Don’t get me wrong the Vido is a great budget earbud, but for roughly twice the price the X6 provides a much smoother experience with equally as good, if not better bass.Just my two cents.


----------



## fonkepala

stephengee77 said:


> Is there any list or good place to start getting an idea which earbuds are good? I haven't kept up with earbuds since 2016 and the be monk, and I was wondering what had changed.



A lot has changed. There's a wealth of info on what's cheap and good here in this thread, also lots of info on what's good but not-so-cheap. Which of the two do you prefer?


----------



## fonkepala

MisterMudd said:


> The Yincrow X6 by far dominates the Vido in all categories. Don’t get me wrong the Vido is a great budget earbud, but for roughly twice the price the X6 provides a much smoother experience with equally as good, if not better bass.Just my two cents.



I stand corrected, then. Well, I guess there's only one way to find out


----------



## stephengee77

fonkepala said:


> A lot has changed. There's a wealth of info on what's cheap and good here in this thread, also lots of info on what's good but not-so-cheap. Which of the two do you prefer?


It would be nice to get an idea for both, but probably nicer end if I had to pick.


----------



## fonkepala

stephengee77 said:


> It would be nice to get an idea for both, but probably nicer end if I had to pick.



These are just off the top of my head and based on what I have, so they're not in any way definitive. There are most probably other buds that are comparable and are perfectly viable alternatives. Also, these are what's readily available on Aliexpress & not other localized shopping sites (Shopee, etc).

Real cheap but good: Any Vido (probably already around in 2016?)
Cheap but good: B40 or Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0+ CE
A step up: Earbuds Anonymous (EA) buds or ME80
A step up and with detachable cables: BK2

I can't think of any nice buds ~USD50, probably because I don't own any. Other members might be able to chime in. Hope this helps.


----------



## assassin10000

fonkepala said:


> These are just off the top of my head and based on what I have, so they're not in any way definitive. There are most probably other buds that are comparable and are perfectly viable alternatives. Also, these are what's readily available on Aliexpress & not other localized shopping sites (Shopee, etc).
> 
> Real cheap but good: Any Vido (probably already around in 2016?)
> Cheap but good: B40 or Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0+ CE
> ...



The new 2020 tuning K's LB, currently $40-45ish iirc. 

I've had the vido, ry4s, b40, me80, bk2 and older K's LB (2018/2019? & older). For me, the new K's is better sounding (extension, dynamics, balance, detail, etc). Ymmv.

I haven't heard the EA buds but others say good things about them.


----------



## fonkepala

assassin10000 said:


> The new 2020 tuning K's LB, currently $40-45ish iirc.
> 
> I've had the vido, ry4s, b40, me80, bk2 and older K's LB (2018/2019? & older). For me, the new K's is better sounding (extension, dynamics, balance, detail, etc). Ymmv.
> 
> I haven't heard the EA buds but others say good things about them.



Ah, yes, the K's LBB. I have to check them out sometime.


----------



## thehientk

This is new version K's LBB 2018 ?


----------



## assassin10000

thehientk said:


> This is new version K's LBB 2018 ?



That's who I bought mine through (white version). I'd message to confirm.


----------



## thehientk

assassin10000 said:


> That's who I bought mine through (white version). I'd message to confirm.


K'S Earburd LBB or Ksearphone Bell-LB  ?


----------



## wskl

The new version is called K's LBBs (with an 's' at the end).  I have yet to see it listed on Aliexpress.  You can differentiate it by looking at the cable below the Y-splitter, it uses some kind of fabric material, the old LBB (black version) has the standard PVC material.


----------



## assassin10000

thehientk said:


> K'S Earburd LBB or Ksearphone Bell-LB  ?



On AliExpress could be listed under both. I'd message the seller to confirm.



wskl said:


> The new version is called K's LBBs (with an 's' at the end).  I have yet to see it listed on Aliexpress.  You can differentiate it by looking at the cable below the Y-splitter, it uses some kind of fabric material, the old LBB (black version) has the standard PVC material.



The box/packaging is also different. Old is small, new is large.





Labels on both call it the LB, so not sure about the 'LBBs'? 

In any case, my white version with SPC cable has no nylon sheathing like you say the new the black one does. I can confirm my old black version did not have it.


----------



## fonkepala

wskl said:


> The new version is called K's LBBs (with an 's' at the end).  I have yet to see it listed on Aliexpress.  You can differentiate it by looking at the cable below the Y-splitter, it uses some kind of fabric material, the old LBB (black version) has the standard PVC material.



So where would one purchase this K's LBBs if its not listed on Aliexpress?


----------



## wskl

fonkepala said:


> So where would one purchase this K's LBBs if its not listed on Aliexpress?



Most likely Taobao, I know that ClieOS has it, he may be able to provide you with a link if you ask.


----------



## tuleggi

Hello I read here and there that the ST-10 would benefit (significantly?) from a cable change with a 17-core (copper/silver plated?). Can any owners in this forum conform and explain a bit more please? Just curiosity, I haven’t received yet the ST10 but just to know if I really need to think of an additional possible investment, thanks


----------



## baskingshark

tuleggi said:


> Hello I read here and there that the ST-10 would benefit (significantly?) from a cable change with a 17-core (copper/silver plated?). Can any owners in this forum conform and explain a bit more please? Just curiosity, I haven’t received yet the ST10 but just to know if I really need to think of an additional possible investment, thanks



Cable changing sound signature is a big can of worms! I've seen flamewars erupt over this issue in audio forums, so it is controversial to say the least. There are 2 camps, one camp says there are no measurable changes with cable rolling while the other camp says they can hear audible difference with cable rolling.

Well i respect both camps, and indeed one will actually save a lot of money in this hobby if you don't believe in cables changing the sound. My personal experience (YMMV), is that cables do change the sound signature very subtly for some highly sensitive multi driver type IEMs, but it is not light and day difference to give an entirely new IEM. Maybe this might be due to the cables affecting resistances? Most of the cable believers will say pure copper ones give more warmth and are bassier whereas the silver plated ones tend to be brighter.

Personally, I won't spend more than $30 USD on a cable, though I have audiophile friends who buy $1000 USD cables and pair it with cheaper IEMs and earbuds. Yes, my audiophile friends claim it makes the sound "rich", well it's their money so who am I to judge, and as long as they enjoy the music with it.

With regard to the ST10, I didn't find much change in the sound using silver plated or pure copper cables, so YMMV.


----------



## stephengee77 (Aug 17, 2020)

Thanks for all the advice


----------



## stephengee77

assassin10000 said:


> The new 2020 tuning K's LB, currently $40-45ish iirc.
> 
> I've had the vido, ry4s, b40, me80, bk2 and older K's LB (2018/2019? & older). For me, the new K's is better sounding (extension, dynamics, balance, detail, etc). Ymmv.
> 
> I haven't heard the EA buds but others say good things about them.


Is it possible to get a link for the LB? I cannot seem to find it and it sounds interesting.


----------



## tuleggi

baskingshark said:


> Cable changing sound signature is a big can of worms! I've seen flamewars erupt over this issue in audio forums, so it is controversial to say the least. There are 2 camps, one camp says there are no measurable changes with cable rolling while the other camp says they can hear audible difference with cable rolling.
> 
> Well i respect both camps, and indeed one will actually save a lot of money in this hobby if you don't believe in cables changing the sound. My personal experience (YMMV), is that cables do change the sound signature very subtly for some highly sensitive multi driver type IEMs, but it is not light and day difference to give an entirely new IEM. Maybe this might be due to the cables affecting resistances? Most of the cable believers will say pure copper ones give more warmth and are bassier whereas the silver plated ones tend to be brighter.
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot, quite useful and detailed reply !
PS: I wanted to write 16-core cable, phone typo


----------



## assassin10000

stephengee77 said:


> Is it possible to get a link for the LB? I cannot seem to find it and it sounds interesting.



This is what I bought:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html 

If you use the mobile app and follow the store it may be a few $ cheaper.


----------



## fonkepala

assassin10000 said:


> This is what I bought:
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html
> 
> If you use the mobile app and follow the store it may be a few $ cheaper.



Sorry but I'm a bit confused. Can you clarify whether the version you have (the one that's in the link you gave above) is the new 2020 tuning version?


----------



## assassin10000

fonkepala said:


> Sorry but I'm a bit confused. Can you clarify whether the version you have (the one that's in the link you gave above) is the new 2020 tuning version?



Yes, I ordered this in 'white' as black was sold out and I was sent the new version. Or at least a version with completely different tuning and different packaging than the one I ordered 6 months or so before.


----------



## fonkepala

assassin10000 said:


> Yes, I ordered this in 'white' as black was sold out and I was sent the new version. Or at least a version with completely different tuning and different packaging than the one I ordered 6 months or so before.



Alright, thanks for the clarification. I guess can always ask Jim to send the new version prior to ordering.


----------



## baskingshark

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-m2-pro.24517/reviews#item-review-24141

Hi this is a SMABAT M2 Pro review. Good midfi earbuds for DIYers who wanna explore soldering and tinkering with stuff.


----------



## luckyeights

So what is the current list of totl earbuds?


----------



## wskl

K's earphone Nameless has been listed on NiceHCK store

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001308691119.html


----------



## fonkepala

wskl said:


> K's earphone Nameless has been listed on NiceHCK store
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001308691119.html



So there's the Moondrop Nameless & then there's the K's Nameless  I wonder how they sound like. They do look nice though. Cheers!


----------



## dabaiyan (Aug 19, 2020)

wskl said:


> K's earphone Nameless has been listed on NiceHCK store
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001308691119.html


I saw this as well, heard it's K's clearing out some OEM stock they did for another company that didn't work out. So they are selling at a loss (in China). Gonna grab a pair while it is still available.


----------



## Slater

dabaiyan said:


> I saw this as well, heard it's K's clearing out some OEM stock they did for another company that didn't work out. So they are selling at a loss (in China). Gonna grab a pair while it is still available.



It says they have 9,997
available. So you should be good for a while 

Has anyone heard the Ks Nameless? What’s its signature and characteristics?


----------



## fonkepala (Aug 19, 2020)

For the past week, I've been auditioning several earbuds I've received which includes the Sony Ericsson HPM64, Kube v1, NiceHCK Nameless, ME80 & Faaeal Iris 2.0. Out of all of them, the ME80 has stayed in my ears the longest...I'm having a hard time tearing myself away from 'em! I keep telling myself "Okay, now it's time to audition the other earbuds that just came in the mail" and time and again I find myself putting on the ME80. 

The ME80 sounds the best out of all the ones I've mentioned. I think that the ME80 is 'a better-sounding BK2'. Low end is great and enough for my needs, mids are forward, treble is borderline hot with some music genres but is bearable (could just be me, I'm a bit treble sensitive). Soundstage sounds spacious and wide, imaging seems to be precise as well. Detailed. It sounds even better through the warm Mojo. With the iFi Zen DAC, they sound great as well, probably a wee bit more smooth. Comfort-wise, the shells don't look like they'll be comfortable but once I put them on, they surprisingly are. They just stay snug in my ears and I'm hardly even aware that I have them on sometimes. If there's anything that I can nitpick about, it's the cable. It's fine, just not great. The BK2 cable is better. Also: detachable.

Really, can't believe I didn't get the ME80 sooner in my earbuds journey. As it is, I'm kinda late to the game, but no matter...it is poised to be one of my favourites for a long time to come.

Next up in my to-audition list is the Ocean Pearl 139, Snow Lotus 1.0+ Commemorative, some different coloured Vidos and the EMX500 Bro. Good times!


----------



## Sam L (Sep 16, 2020)

luckyeights said:


> So what is the current list of totl earbuds?





fonkepala said:


> For the past week, I've been auditioning several earbuds I've received which includes the Sony Ericsson HPM64, Kube v1, NiceHCK Nameless, ME80 & Faaeal Iris 2.0. Out of all of them, the ME80 has stayed in my ears the longest...I'm having a hard time tearing myself away from 'em! I keep telling myself "Okay, now it's time to audition the other earbuds that just came in the mail" and time and again I find myself putting on the ME80.
> 
> The ME80 sounds the best out of all the ones I've mentioned. I think that the ME80 is 'a better-sounding BK2'. Low end is great and enough for my needs, mids are forward, treble is borderline hot with some music genres but is bearable (could just be me, I'm a bit treble sensitive). Soundstage sounds spacious and wide, imaging seems to be precise as well. Detailed. It sounds even better through the warm Mojo. With the iFi Zen DAC, they sound great as well, probably a wee bit more smooth. Comfort-wise, the shells don't look like they'll be comfortable but once I put them on, they surprisingly are. They just stay snug in my ears and I'm hardly even aware that I have them on sometimes. If there's anything that I can nitpick about, it's the cable. It's fine, just not great. The BK2 cable is better.
> 
> ...


One of my sub $20 favorites.


----------



## Sam L

dabaiyan said:


> I saw this as well, heard it's K's clearing out some OEM stock they did for another company that didn't work out. So they are selling at a loss (in China). Gonna grab a pair while it is still available.


Interesting.... went ahead and ordered a pair. I'll graph it and post here when it comes in.


----------



## Slater

fonkepala said:


> For the past week, I've been auditioning several earbuds ...
> 
> Out of all of them, the ME80 has stayed in my ears the longest...I'm having a hard time tearing myself away from 'em! I keep telling myself "Okay, now it's time to audition the other earbuds that just came in the mail" and time and again I find myself putting on the ME80.
> 
> ...



That’s exactly what happened to me. The second I put in the ME80, I lost interest in an endless search for other earbuds. Sure, it’s not TOTL or anything, but it gives me exactly what I’ve always looked for in an earbud. The fat/thick shell also fits my ear very securely.


----------



## thehientk

ME80 so good.

- Very nice design.
- Mids is very deep.
- The bass is just enough.

Sometimes I feel the bass is weak, but my friend said the bass is really good and strong


----------



## thehientk

dabaiyan said:


> I saw this as well, heard it's K's clearing out some OEM stock they did for another company that didn't work out. So they are selling at a loss (in China). Gonna grab a pair while it is still available.



Which mean $ 8.90 is the selling at a loss of Ks Nameless,  limited quantity and stop producing ?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Slater said:


> Has anyone heard the Ks Nameless? What’s its signature and characteristics?


Looks like it is an old K's 32ohm with a new design. But need to check it


----------



## fonkepala

Slater said:


> That’s exactly what happened to me. The second I put in the ME80, I lost interest in an endless search for other earbuds. Sure, it’s not TOTL or anything, but it gives me exactly what I’ve always looked for in an earbud. The fat/thick shell also fits my ear very securely.



I agree!  Not TOTL but fantastic nonetheless. Especially considering the price.



thehientk said:


> ME80 so good.
> 
> - Very nice design.
> - Mids is very deep.
> ...



You got that right! I don't think it's bass-shy at all  BTW, did you change the plug on your ME80?



thehientk said:


> Which mean $ 8.90 is the selling at a loss of Ks Nameless,  limited quantity and stop producing ?



Maybe the 'selling at a loss' is only on Taobao and not AE?


----------



## thehientk

fonkepala said:


> You got that right! I don't think it's bass-shy at all  BTW, did you change the plug on your ME80?
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe the 'selling at a loss' is only on Taobao and not AE?




After unboxing, my me80 only heard one side, I checked it and found a jack problem. My friend has replaced the jack, it looks cool. 







I think K's Nameless limited. So I was wondering if me wait for someone review in here, or buy it now before it ran out of stock.


----------



## dabaiyan

thehientk said:


> Which mean $ 8.90 is the selling at a loss of Ks Nameless,  limited quantity and stop producing ?


They are planning to sell these at vido price in China, but I don't think the ali-price is at a loss.


----------



## cenizas

dabaiyan said:


> They are planning to sell these at vido price in China, but I don't think the ali-price is at a loss.


This is probably right, on taobao they're selling 1 pair for $2usd and 5 pairs for slightly over ~$6usd, the Ali sellers probably saw an opportunity to make some money, nothing wrong with that, but if you have access to taobao you might want to buy directly from ksearphone


----------



## thehientk (Aug 20, 2020)

cenizas said:


> This is probably right, on taobao they're selling 1 pair for $2usd and 5 pairs for slightly over ~$6usd, the Ali sellers probably saw an opportunity to make some money, nothing wrong with that, but if you have access to taobao you might want to buy directly from ksearphone


This is K's Nameless ?
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.1-c-s.w4004-3834745469.27.2816344evWJ6Xh&id=625200593132


I think its sound is identical to vido, just with different shell.


----------



## vygas

Has anyone seen these 18 Karat Gold Happy Plugs before?






I kinda think it's funny that these are worth around €9,500... Anyone know a good bank?


----------



## cenizas

thehientk said:


> This is K's Nameless ?
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.1-c-s.w4004-3834745469.27.2816344evWJ6Xh&id=625200593132
> 
> 
> I think its sound is identical to vido, just with different shell.


The listing title has a phrase that translates literally to "no name", along with it looking pretty much identical to the nameless I would assume they are the same. Either way it's a ksearphone for $2, I don't think you can go very wrong, and even if it does go wrong it's not much to lose lol


----------



## Slater

If you guys had to pick the single most universally comfortable earbud shell, what would it be?

In other words, the shell style that’s compatible with the majority of average people.

PK2 style shell?


----------



## assassin10000

Slater said:


> If you guys had to pick the single most universally comfortable earbud shell, what would it be?
> 
> In other words, the shell style that’s compatible with the majority of average people.
> 
> PK2 style shell?



Yep. 

Fits smaller ears better and can be double foamed to fit larger if needed.


The most comfortable I've ever had are the K's bell style shells.


----------



## fonkepala

Slater said:


> If you guys had to pick the single most universally comfortable earbud shell, what would it be?
> 
> In other words, the shell style that’s compatible with the majority of average people.
> 
> PK2 style shell?



I'd say PK2 as well.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

FiiO EM5 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001310441888.html


----------



## rprodrigues

Alex.Grimm said:


> FiiO EM5 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001310441888.html



Well... at that price point....


----------



## baskingshark

Alex.Grimm said:


> FiiO EM5 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001310441888.html





rprodrigues said:


> Well... at that price point....



Hard pass for me at $300, with non detachable cables to boot. I know there's some interchangeable balanced and 3.5 mm jack at the end, but there's no MMCX detachable cable at the housing, and that is a potential source of failure down the line. Not to mention some of us wanna use wireless adapters or other aftermarket balanced cables.

The $300 market is also considered TOTL for earbuds, and Fiio is gonna be facing super tough competition against the other established big boys in the earbuds industry. I know Fiio is trying to ride on the beryllium driver hype, but it isn't even a full beryllium driver, but beryllium plated/coated. I am not too sure it will sell well TBH.


----------



## theresanarc

Quick question, I need to get a new pair of earbuds with a MIC. Something available on amazon.ca with Prime shipping instead of waiting for something to ship from Ali.

What would be better, Edifier H185 or H190 or other? They both have a mic and are around $15-20 CDN. I'm sure the sound quality is solid on both, I'd prefer to go with whichever one is more comfortable fit to wear for long periods for work. For reference, the Qian39s are the most comfortable for me and I also find the Edifier H180 to be perfectly fine but the pair I have doesn't have a mic.


----------



## waynes world

Slater said:


> That’s exactly what happened to me. The second I put in the ME80, I lost interest in an endless search for other earbuds. Sure, it’s not TOTL or anything, but it gives me exactly what I’ve always looked for in an earbud. The fat/thick shell also fits my ear very securely.



+1.. the ME80's rock. I finally switched back to the Sabia V7's after listening extensively to the ME80's for quite a while. The V7's have a very similar signature and also sound awesome. It's too bad they are so hard to come by.


----------



## vygas

theresanarc said:


> Quick question, I need to get a new pair of earbuds with a MIC. Something available on amazon.ca with Prime shipping instead of waiting for something to ship from Ali.
> 
> What would be better, Edifier H185 or H190 or other? They both have a mic and are around $15-20 CDN. I'm sure the sound quality is solid on both, I'd prefer to go with whichever one is more comfortable fit to wear for long periods for work. For reference, the Qian39s are the most comfortable for me and I also find the Edifier H180 to be perfectly fine but the pair I have doesn't have a mic.


If you were able to wait a bit for Ali shipping, I'd recommend this clear pair from NSC Audio Store : https://a.aliexpress.com/_BfgyE6dC, but when it comes to Amazon the only ones I know about are the Mic versions of the H180 called the P180, the other edifier buds could be a good shout though.


----------



## jasswolf

Aside from the K's Nameless, should I be bothering with their low-price offerings on Taobao? The K64 and K300 read as a bit dated, or is there a driver revision every so often?

Away from that, should I steer clear from cable options with a mic, or is the quality of cable roughly the same?


----------



## baskingshark

jasswolf said:


> Aside from the K's Nameless, should I be bothering with their low-price offerings on Taobao? The K64 and K300 read as a bit dated, or is there a driver revision every so often?
> 
> Away from that, should I steer clear from cable options with a mic, or is the quality of cable roughly the same?



I understand sometimes mic cables are convenient for calls and teleconferencing. But for pure music listening, personally I avoid cables with mic. I don't have measuring equipment, but I was shown by my friend who has that sometimes cables on the mic side had increased resistance. It theoretically is also a potential point of failure down the line with an added component in the chain. YMMV.


----------



## gordonderp

Hey guys been using a pair of Headroom MS-16 for a while and really enjoy them. Really enjoy the soundstage and the warm sound signature. Any recommendations for an upgrade from them? Been lurking this thread for a while and the recent talk of the ME80 has interested me.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

waynes world said:


> +1.. the ME80's rock. I finally switched back to the Sabia V7's after listening extensively to the ME80's for quite a while. The V7's have a very similar signature and also sound awesome. It's too bad they are so hard to come by.


I wouldn't say that ME80 is like Sabia v7, but one thing you are right bro Sabia v7 sounds awesome


Spoiler


----------



## thehientk (Aug 21, 2020)

I have a question.
LEORY SD05 AMP and Artextreme SD05 is the same ?


----------



## waynes world

Alex.Grimm said:


> I wouldn't say that ME80 is like Sabia v7, but one thing you are right bro Sabia v7 sounds awesome



Nice collection! You're probably right about the sound sigs - it would require some critical listening (which I'm not good at doing) and some non-bronze ears lol. 

I'd be interested in your sound comparison if you feel inclined in doing it


----------



## fonkepala

gordonderp said:


> Hey guys been using a pair of Headroom MS-16 for a while and really enjoy them. Really enjoy the soundstage and the warm sound signature. Any recommendations for an upgrade from them? Been lurking this thread for a while and the recent talk of the ME80 has interested me.



I haven't heard the MS16 (mine is still on the way) but I think you'll probably be happy with the ME80. One thing though, I wouldn't describe the ME80 as being warm. Other than that, they sound great IMHO.


----------



## daid1 (Aug 21, 2020)

New beauties are coming 




https://www.facebook.com/Tiny.Woodcraft/




https://www.facebook.com/SupremoLub/

when they will come I will write my inpression about it, so far I have to say is a pleasure talking to them, especially Tiny Woodcraft, exquisite person and super friendly, the service is more than impeccable.

Thailand seems the land of earbuds makers, there are quite a lot of beautiful works, yet I don't know how they sound, but there are some reviews


----------



## darmanastartes

I typically use the ME80s when I'm out running (I don't like to expose my IEMs to sweat after a few bad experiences and earbuds are better for situational awareness) and I really don't feel like I'm missing out on all that much compared to my higher end gear in that context.


----------



## fonkepala

So I've been listening to the Ocean Pearl 139 for several days now. Initially bought them based on a couple of glowing reviews and impressions in the EA group on Facebook. Purported to have drivers made by Foster (makers of Fostex). Burned them in for roughly 48 hours before having a listen. 

Right off the bat what struck me was how warm they sounded, bordering right on being dark. Treble is very rolled off while bass is quite well extended, albeit a bit loose. Not boomy, just…not tight. The emphasis seems to be on the mids, although there's a sort of 'veil' in the mids somewhere that makes them lack clarity and detail, almost recessed. I can't for the life of me point out where it is, or maybe I don't trust myself to describe it accurately enough. Vocals do sound quite nice, though. I also noticed sometimes that these tend to sound a bit congested, especially on busy tracks where there's a lot going on at any one time. Soundstage is great, imaging and separation too. 

At first I paired them with the iFi Zen DAC and Mojo then in a bid to maybe counteract the warmth, I started using it with the more-analytical sounding Stoner Acoustics UD130. Not much difference, if at all. Maybe a tad brighter on the UD130, but not enough to matter. I also switched from full foams to donuts and that didn't improve things so I switched back to full foams (Trig Rains). They sound best with full foams, IMO.

I like the angle plug. I also like the cable, while thin it is nicely ribbed (!). I also like the odd shape of the shell. At first glance they appear to be identical to MX500 shells but if one looks closer, they do have slight differences, particularly where the stem flares out. 

So, TL;DR: the Ocean Pearl 139 are okay sounding buds, not great. Worth considering if you're interested in the shell design and/or if you don't mind overly warm-sounding buds. At the equivalent of USD$11 (where I sourced them), they're likely cheap enough to warrant a try. You might like them. I did try very hard to like them, but in the end they sounded alright enough and looked different enough for me to not give them away. 

As always, YMMV. Have a good Sunday ahead everyone.


----------



## wskl

While browsing Aliexpress today, these 2 mmcx earbuds showed up on my page from a store called OpenHeart.  They are cheap and can be bought with or without cables.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001185272588.html




https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001180479742.html
(this one looks like a clone of Fengru PT52)


----------



## lgcubana

baskingshark said:


> Hard pass for me at $300, with non detachable cables to boot. I know there's some interchangeable balanced and 3.5 mm jack at the end, but there's no MMCX detachable cable at the housing, and that is a potential source of failure down the line. Not to mention some of us wanna use wireless adapters or other aftermarket balanced cables.
> 
> The $300 market is also considered TOTL for earbuds, and Fiio is gonna be facing super tough competition against the other established big boys in the earbuds industry. I know Fiio is trying to ride on the beryllium driver hype, but it isn't even a full beryllium driver, but beryllium plated/coated. I am not too sure it will sell well TBH.



@FiiO (link), " As mentioned earlier, *the EM5* is different from other FiiO models and *is not a market-oriented product*. So we don't have to consider its sales and profit. Basically, the pricing follows the principle of hardware cost + reasonable profit. *We assume that the EM5 project will make a negative profit in the end*. But as long as it can fulfill the wishes of us and some loyal fans, it is enough. "


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Alex.Grimm said:


> FiiO EM5 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001310441888.html


Also available already in the official store


Spoiler



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001308929873.html


----------



## baskingshark

lgcubana said:


> @FiiO (link), " As mentioned earlier, *the EM5* is different from other FiiO models and *is not a market-oriented product*. So we don't have to consider its sales and profit. Basically, the pricing follows the principle of hardware cost + reasonable profit. *We assume that the EM5 project will make a negative profit in the end*. But as long as it can fulfill the wishes of us and some loyal fans, it is enough. "



Thanks. So even Fiio themselves think the EM5 earbud isn't gonna sell well. No surprise then for all the stakeholders involved. The TOTL earbud market isn't as big as say the IEM or headphone market, it is still a pretty niche segment, coupled with this covid economy and tough competition against other established TOTL buds, no surprise then if they already expect bad sales. 

But what surprises me is (correct me if I'm wrong) this is the first time I've seen an established audio company release a new product that they expect to have negative profits. I mean some newcomers may sometimes sell stuff at a loss to gain market recognition/sales and perhaps some other companies may sell off older models or unpopular models at a loss, though I haven't seen this for a new product.


----------



## duyanh43

Hi guys, because of changing work environment, I have to dropped IEM for Earbuds and I just bought a Moondrop Chaconne as my first bud (Im kinda fan of Moondrop brand and this bud looks fancy as well). Overall impression was pretty good but I still want more bass like the bass with my previous VE Monk SPC. And the fit is kinda weird too, is there anything like earbuds hook that hold the bud for me to get proper bass impact. Thanks guy.


----------



## digititus

baskingshark said:


> But what surprises me is (correct me if I'm wrong) this is the first time I've seen an established audio company release a new product that they expect to have negative profits.


I speak as someone with a manufacturing business. Products that you think will make a loss for the company are generally not released unless they bring a significant positive marketing impact on other product lines. Therefore, take marketing speak for what it is - marketing! The psychology of the sale.


----------



## Slater

digititus said:


> I speak as someone with a manufacturing business. Products that you think will make a loss for the company are generally not released unless they bring a significant positive marketing impact on other product lines. Therefore, take marketing speak for what it is - marketing! The psychology of the sale.



You beat me to it. I too was in the manufacturing for many years, and that excuse is total BS marketing speak.

What they’re saying is that the price is fixed at $299, so don’t wait for sales, expect the price to drop, ask for a discount, etc.

As far as a Chinese earbud being sold for $299 ‘at a loss’, sorry but that’s comical.


----------



## fonkepala

digititus said:


> I speak as someone with a manufacturing business. Products that you think will make a loss for the company are generally not released unless they bring a significant positive marketing impact on other product lines. Therefore, take marketing speak for what it is - marketing! The psychology of the sale.





Slater said:


> You beat me to it. I too was in the manufacturing for many years, and that excuse is total BS marketing speak.
> 
> What they’re saying is that the price is fixed at $299, so don’t wait for sales, expect the price to drop, ask for a discount, etc.
> 
> As far as a Chinese earbud being sold for $299 ‘at a loss’, sorry but that’s comical.



These are both very enlightening. I guess no one could be expected to do anything if it will come at a loss, more so in this day and age. I wish someone with marketing knowledge would call Fiio out in the official EM5 thread


----------



## Danneq (Aug 24, 2020)

I haven't posted anything in a long time and almost 2 years since I bought new earbuds,  but now I've got 3 new pairs! (well, 2, actually)

I sort of got caught up in the hype around Turandot and bought a pair of from NiceHCK. Also got a pair of NiceHCK B40 for my wife as a spare when her curret pair of NiceHCK DIY (Yuin shells) breaks.
Also recently I received a pair of C Major from ClieOS.

NiceHCK sent the package so that it looked like it was sent to me from the Netherlands. It took a little over 1 month but I didn't need to pay any import taxes or anything. Unfortunately I had to pay that for ClieOs' earbuds, but I'm okay with that.

I no longer have much time for long comparisons, too busy with 2 kids and other hobbies (mainly ripping and digitizing a 700+ collection of DVD and Blu ray movies).
But some brief impressions are: Turandot are quite nice tonally. Slightly warm sounding and a bit "dry" compared to SWD2+. Also the mids seem to be slightly more forward on the Turandot compared to the SWD2+. Bass is there and audible but not deep (I feel that SWD2+ has got slightly deeper bass, for an earbud with Yuin type shells). Bass-wise my earbuds with MX500 shells, mainly Cypherus ZoomFred and also CampFred2, completely obliterate Turandot and SWD2+, but those 2 earbuds have other great qualities and are both top tier. So both are keepers.
NiceHCK B40 is really good sounding for the low price. They are better than the NiceHCK DIY which I bought for $22 in 2017.

C Major are really nice earbuds. I wonder what the impedence is? I compared the 3 new pairs of earbuds and the C Major needed more volume to get on the same level as the NiceHCK B40 and Turandot.
I am actually not a fan of removable cables and it was scary to insert the cable into the MMCX plug, as I needed to use a bit of force (I "popped my cherry" on MMCX plugs with the C Major - but used to own a pair of Rose Mojito).
They do not have the same type of hard hitting bass as some other earbuds with MX500 shells but it's still quite sufficient. I like the slightly "dryish" sound signature. I'm happy to have been given the opportunity to try them out. Thank's ClieOS!

Some pics (sorrt for the poor quality, at least they are not out of focus, well sort of not out of focus...):


----------



## golov17

@Danneq  C Major double drivers earbuds by @ClieOS have 23,2 Ohm


----------



## knightaz (Aug 24, 2020)

Hey y'all, I'm looking for a really good pair of earbuds, don't want to be on the endless chase. Looking to spend up to $150, however would go higher if it's really worth it. Does anyone have suggestions? I was looking at the ME80 and KS LB which were both mentioned recently in the thread, they're obviously fairly cheap, but how good are they really? I've also heard that the Rose Maria are TOTL, but I haven't seen any reviews on them so I'm not sure what I'd be getting (they're quite pricy). I'm a bit a of a bass head, for example, I have a pair of ISN H40 which I think are almost perfect, I also have the Urbanfun YBF which is pretty good. I have the 58X which I quite enjoy too.


----------



## fonkepala

knightaz said:


> Hey y'all, I'm looking for a really good pair of earbuds, don't want to be on the endless chase. Looking to spend up to $150, however would go higher if it's really worth it. Does anyone have suggestions? I was looking at the ME80 and KS LB which were both mentioned recently in the thread, they're obviously fairly cheap, but how good are they really? I've also heard that the Rose Maria are TOTL, but I haven't seen any reviews on them so I'm not sure what I'd be getting (they're quite pricy). I'm a bit a of a bass head, for example, I have a pair of ISN H40 which I think are almost perfect, I also have the Urbanfun YBF which is pretty good. I have the 58X which I quite enjoy too.



Would you be happy having $150 to spend but then only forking out around $20 for the ME80?


----------



## baskingshark (Aug 24, 2020)

knightaz said:


> Hey y'all, I'm looking for a really good pair of earbuds, don't want to be on the endless chase. Looking to spend up to $150, however would go higher if it's really worth it. Does anyone have suggestions? I was looking at the ME80 and KS LB which were both mentioned recently in the thread, they're obviously fairly cheap, but how good are they really? I've also heard that the Rose Maria are TOTL, but I haven't seen any reviews on them so I'm not sure what I'd be getting (they're quite pricy). I'm a bit a of a bass head, for example, I have a pair of ISN H40 which I think are almost perfect, I also have the Urbanfun YBF which is pretty good. I have the 58X which I quite enjoy too.



Hello fellow basshead! Most earbuds won't please bassheads in terms of subbass extension/quantity. They can give good midbass thump, but unfortunately due to a lack of isolation, subbass is generally lost below about 40 or so Hz. Maybe except the HE150 Pro, SMABAT ST10 and SMABAT M2 Pro that I've tried, those have good subbass extension for a earbud, but even so, they can't compete with true basshead IEMs in bass quantity.


----------



## knightaz

fonkepala said:


> Would you be happy having $150 to spend but then only forking out around $20 for the ME80?


If the ME80 legitimately as good as the more expensive earbuds, then for sure, always happy to save some money  



baskingshark said:


> Hello fellow basshead! Most earbuds won't please bassheads in terms of subbass extension/quantity. They can give good midbass thump, but unfortunately due to a lack of isolation, subbass is generally lost below about 40 or so Hz. Maybe except the HE150 Pro, SMABAT ST10 and SMABAT M2 Pro that I've tried, those have good subbass extension for a earbud, but even so, they can't compete with true basshead IEMs in bass quantity.


Thanks for the recommendations! If it's a matter of form factor limitations, then I don't mind a somewhat lacking sub-bass.


----------



## fonkepala

knightaz said:


> If the ME80 legitimately as good as the more expensive earbuds, then for sure, always happy to save some money



Since I don't have any near-TOTL or TOTL buds to compare, then I can't say for certain. But for $20, the ME80 is a really good choice, IMHO. 

Just as an aside, if I had $150 to spend and I'm hell bent to get the best buds out there, I'd spend it all


----------



## thehientk (Aug 24, 2020)

MEMT T5 and Yincrow RW-9
Has anyone used it ?
I am looking for the bass earbuds. I read a few reviews, and both have good bass.


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 24, 2020)

knightaz said:


> Hey y'all, I'm looking for a really good pair of earbuds, don't want to be on the endless chase. Looking to spend up to $150, however would go higher if it's really worth it. Does anyone have suggestions? I was looking at the ME80 and KS LB which were both mentioned recently in the thread, they're obviously fairly cheap, but how good are they really? I've also heard that the Rose Maria are TOTL, but I haven't seen any reviews on them so I'm not sure what I'd be getting (they're quite pricy). I'm a bit a of a bass head, for example, I have a pair of ISN H40 which I think are almost perfect, I also have the Urbanfun YBF which is pretty good. I have the 58X which I quite enjoy too.



Do you prefer clarity and detail along with good sub-bass extension/quantity? Then I'd recommend the original ST-10 (green 45Ω) if you can find a pair.

I haven't heard the new ST-10S but others here have and compared both the black/silver (40Ω) and black/gold (150Ω) models. They said the black/gold was the better of the two but needs a source slightly better than the average cell phone (lg quad dac phones, usb-c dac, bt adapters, etc).

The K's LB is very good but not as satisfying for a bass head as the ST-10 would be. I have both the newer LB and older ST-10. The ST-10 also has way less of a mid-bass hump to its sound sig and with the exception of the bass lift it is a fairly  neutral sound signature.


I also have an ME80 but don't listen to it, as it doesn't fit my ears very well. I prefer smaller shell buds. Been too long since I tried it so can't recall enough for a comparison to the LB & ST-10. I'll try and give a listen later but IIRC its not in the same league.



I haven't heard the Maria but there are others here who have and posted some impressions if you search the thread.


----------



## Nool (Aug 24, 2020)

knightaz said:


> Hey y'all, I'm looking for a really good pair of earbuds, don't want to be on the endless chase. Looking to spend up to $150, however would go higher if it's really worth it. Does anyone have suggestions? I was looking at the ME80 and KS LB which were both mentioned recently in the thread, they're obviously fairly cheap, but how good are they really? I've also heard that the Rose Maria are TOTL, but I haven't seen any reviews on them so I'm not sure what I'd be getting (they're quite pricy). I'm a bit a of a bass head, for example, I have a pair of ISN H40 which I think are almost perfect, I also have the Urbanfun YBF which is pretty good. I have the 58X which I quite enjoy too.



After watching this thread a while it seems the absolute best buds are OurArt QJ21 ($250), ISN Rambo II ($70) and the 150ohm smabat ST-10s ($150). @cqtek has some reviews on the qj21 and r2, as well as the 40ohm ST-10s, scroll to the bottom for numerical scores. https://www.head-fi.org/members/cqtek.451999/#showcase-reviews

I placed an order for the Rambo II recently, it's apparently on par with the qj21 on bass and mids. Apparently the 40ohm ST-10s has more bass quantity, but the quality isn't as good. Dunno about the 150ohm variant though. With earbuds, I'd rather have flat bass with better resolution & timbre. Besides you'll be getting bass and treble rolloff with any earbuds, so good mids, resolution & timbre really are the priority imo.

I should note I've only been watching buds with detachable cables.. the Simphonio Dragon 2+ has good reviews, but a fixed cable.

Also personally, any manufacturer that doesn't explain what materials the transducer is made of probably isn't worth paying attention to.. diaphragm material (polypropylene, aluminum, titanium, berrylium, etc) heavily influences sound quality imo. If they don't explain what the diaphragm's made of (in respect to dynamic drivers here) then I tend to just pass on them.

Edit: Don't know about the Rose Maria either. Also Moondrops been putting out some new earbuds, though their earlier stuff wasn't too notable from what I've read.


----------



## daid1

daid1 said:


> New beauties are coming
> 
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/Tiny.Woodcraft/
> ...









and those from https://www.instagram.com/uairekko/?hl=it

happy kid here


----------



## fonkepala

daid1 said:


> and those from https://www.instagram.com/uairekko/?hl=it
> 
> happy kid here



They sure look funky!


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Q'labs #4


Spoiler



http://www.rholupat.com/indonesian-buds/qlabs-4.html


Kube Yinyang


Spoiler



http://www.rholupat.com/indonesian-buds/kube-yinyang-35mm.html


Kube Black Gold


Spoiler



3.5mm http://www.rholupat.com/indonesian-buds/kube-white-gold-35mm.html
2.5mm http://www.rholupat.com/indonesian-buds/kube-black-gold-25mm.html


----------



## Alex.Grimm

assassin10000 said:


> I haven't heard the new ST-10S but others here have and compared both the black/silver (40Ω) and black/gold (150Ω) models. They said the black/gold was the better of the two but needs a source slightly better than the average cell phone (lg quad dac phones, usb-c dac, bt adapters, etc).


Black/silver (40Ω) hard to drive than black/gold (150Ω). Black/silver (40Ω) worse than ST-10 Green. Black/gold (150Ω) better of all ST-10 and good drive with LG quad DAC phones.


----------



## cqtek

Nool said:


> After watching this thread a while it seems the absolute best buds are OurArt QJ21 ($250), ISN Rambo II ($70) and the 150ohm smabat ST-10s ($150). @cqtek has some reviews on the qj21 and r2, as well as the 40ohm ST-10s, scroll to the bottom for numerical scores. https://www.head-fi.org/members/cqtek.451999/#showcase-reviews
> 
> I placed an order for the Rambo II recently, it's apparently on par with the qj21 on bass and mids. Apparently the 40ohm ST-10s has more bass quantity, but the quality isn't as good. Dunno about the 150ohm variant though. With earbuds, I'd rather have flat bass with better resolution & timbre. Besides you'll be getting bass and treble rolloff with any earbuds, so good mids, resolution & timbre really are the priority imo.
> 
> ...



I just want to point out that the ISN Rambo II is very good in its price range. But the Ouart QJ21's are in a higher range.
My scores cannot be taken as absolute, I take the price range into account. It is also not a measure of quantity, it is a mix between quality and quantity.
ISN Rambo II and Ourart QJ21 have light bass. ISN Rambo II can be tuned, by covering vents with tape, to increase the presence of bass. But it's not comparable to a beast in bass, as ISN H40 are. If you're looking for something like that, I don't think it's possible, but Smabat has better bass response. In my opinion, I prefer the Smabat ST-10 to the ST-10s silver.
If you are looking for clarity and definition, ISN Rambo II has an excellent price/performance ratio. But please don't put them on the same level as the Ouart QJ21.
I have a review pending of the Sunrise Dragon 2 Limited Edition (SWD2LE) 10th Anniversary, which has a higher bass response than the Rambo II, but has a warmer profile, not as clear as the Rambo II. Technically they are different, although I haven't deepened in the SWD2LE, to give more details.

I repeat, I don't want to be a slave of the scores, that's why I think it's necessary to write this clarification.

Greetings.


----------



## luckyeights

Alex.Grimm said:


> Q'labs #4
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



I cant find anything out about kube buds when I do a search is there a review on how they sound?


----------



## luckyeights

Can anyone describe and compare the sound of the willsound mk32 vs the mk2. ?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

luckyeights said:


> Can anyone describe and compare the sound of the willsound mk32 vs the mk2. ?


MK2 warm, air, slightly bright, the middle is slightly clamped, musical
Mk32 v1 2019 warm, no air , more bass, wide stage, musical, vocals are a little blurry
MK32 v2 2020 less bass wide stage, air
MK32 v3 2020 more neutral sounds, air


----------



## fonkepala

luckyeights said:


> I cant find anything out about kube buds when I do a search is there a review on how they sound?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3076#post-15330380

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2908#post-15060176

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2904#post-15055122

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2904#post-15055048

Lots more...try looking in the EA group on Facebook as well.


----------



## mochill

fonkepala said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3076#post-15330380
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2908#post-15060176
> 
> ...


I would buy the ying-yang and white gold


----------



## noknok23

Alex.Grimm said:


> MK2 warm, air, slightly bright, the middle is slightly clamped, musical
> Mk32 v1 2019 warm, no air , more bass, wide stage, musical, vocals are a little blurry
> MK32 v2 2020 less bass wide stage, air
> MK32 v3 2020 more neutral sounds, air



How to know which mk32 version I have? I bought it in March 2020.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

noknok23 said:


> How to know which mk32 version I have? I bought it in March 2020.


Probably MK32 v2 2020


----------



## Saoshyant

@Danneq @golov17 Good to see you both.  Now I'm curious about the C Major.


----------



## Slater

fonkepala said:


> Would you be happy having $150 to spend but then only forking out around $20 for the ME80?



That would leave me $130 left to buy a good bottle of single malt scotch and a couple of nice thick steaks for the grille. So, yes


----------



## Nool (Aug 25, 2020)

@cqtek thanks for the clarification, I didn't realize your scores weren't universal.

As always opinion on audio is mostly subjective; here are the other posts I referenced in making my decision to go with the Rambo II:



ClieOS said:


> ST-10S Black Gold is _*absolutely stunning*_, but it required a decent source with a bit of power. Driving it from a weak source, while still sounds good, won't likely going to be its best. In comparison, ST-10 is slightly drier - think of it as closer to ER4S tuning while ST-10S Black Glod is somewhere in between ER4P and ER4S.





ClieOS said:


> It is a ToTL on its own right. While the original ST-10 might sounds a little dry for some, technically it is almost as good as any earbud. ST-10S Black Gold just improves upon its by a slight retuning that gives it just enough warmth without taking away the neutralness, with also an improvement on a more immersive soundstage.





ClieOS said:


> Don't have any RY4S to compare to, but Rambo II has sort of the same flavor as QJ21, though not as upfront / fun / energetic, essentially more laid-back with better soundstage. Overall, I'll call its mildly warm sound that is rich and somewhat smooth. Bass is pretty good, but definitely not something I'll call bass-heavy.





ClieOS said:


> QJ21 has a laid-back and warmish sound, if not more on the smooth and unassuming side of the presentation. By far the best build quality of all the earbuds I ever own, bar none. But by sound quality, I feel it is technically very strong though just a little too laid-back for its own good. It lacks just that something that could have made it shine over others - one quality that often defines ToTL earbuds over the rest. I'll rank it perhaps top of the second tier or even a lower end of the first tier.





ClieOS said:


> [Referring to the Rambo II] I thought it probably can rival some of the big boys on the $150 region. The build quality alone already makes it feels like a $150+ earbud (as you can see with the comparison next to QJ21, which is almost $250). But the point is that it is only $70, so that makes it a real bargain in my book.
> 
> 
> 
> It is not a particularly difficult to drive earbuds so you should be fine to use it with a smartphone. Then again, it also depends on how good the smartphone's output is.





Sam L said:


> Been really enjoying the Rambo 2's and Smabat ST-10 black/silver. They actually share a lot of similarities -- good bass and great extension in the highs, very detailed.The Smabats have more bass than the Rambo 2's but not significantly more. I actually prefer the Rambo 2's bass, faster and cleaner bass than the Smabat. The rambos also have a slight bump in the 250-500hz range, compared to the Smabats (2dB-ish). The Rambo's also have a bit more presence in the brilliance range.
> 
> Not sure what I prefer more. They are both excellent purchases, but if I had to choose one, at this point, I'd pick the Rambo 2's because they are cheaper.





Sam L said:


> From what I remember, the st-10s reach deeper but I prefer the quality of the Rambo's bass. The mids are better. There is also a slight bump around 500hz on the Rambo's compared to the Smabats. I could be wrong though. I'm waiting for my iec711 coupler to arrive then I can verify.
> 
> I agree, the Rambo's are more balanced and they are more coherent all across the mids and treble during complex orchestral music (Ie. Beethoven 9th with chorus).





Sam L said:


> I wasn't going to post any graphs of earbuds until I get my iec711 coupler, but since that's coming from aliexpress it might take several weeks.
> 
> These were generated with the Dayton imm6 at 10mm. Note, readings are horribly *inaccurate below 50hz and above 5khz.*
> The Rambo's are my favorite of the bunch, with the Smabat's a close second. I have cleaned up the PK2 with the eq on my v60 but they aren't listened to very often.





Sam L said:


> one more with the Harman target compared and PK2 removed



...After these it seems there's only the realm of $250+ wired earbuds, at which point I'd rather just buy IEMs or headphones, or even speakers.

Edit: sorry for the massive post, I thought it'd collapse the quotes. I'll delete it if necessary.


----------



## rprodrigues

@Nool 
Great post!


----------



## Nool (Aug 25, 2020)

Also asked the seller what material the diaphragm is on the Rambo II, "Titanium composite".. will probably have to email ISN directly to get any more details.

@rprodrigues thanks, though I'm probably trying to justify my purchase a bit too much here.. should really wait until I hear it first. I'll post my impressions when it gets here in a few weeks.

Also for anyone reading, note that SamL is referring to the 40ohm black/silver Smabat ST-10s, NOT the 150ohm black/gold. If you're a basshead with the proper gear to drive it the black/gold might be the best choice.


----------



## rprodrigues (Aug 25, 2020)

@cqtek Once Rambo II is at half the price of the ST-10s black/gold, would you say Rambo II is a no brainer?


----------



## fonkepala

Nool said:


> thanks, though I'm probably trying to justify my purchase a bit too much here.. should really wait until I hear it first. I'll post my impressions when it gets here in a few weeks.



Looking forward to your review/impressions of the Rambo II. I do intend to get it sometime in the near future as it seems to be a clear set up from all of my current earbuds.


----------



## fonkepala

mochill said:


> I would buy the ying-yang and white gold



Interesting. Both seems to use the original Kube v1 drivers with no modifications in the tuning, at least that what it says in the description. Do you have any experience with the Kube Plus?


----------



## golov17

Saoshyant said:


> @Danneq @golov17 Good to see you both.  Now I'm curious about the C Major.


sounding interesting although on the bright side in vocals, you can contact ClieOS for details.  I use them with thick foams


----------



## mochill

fonkepala said:


> Interesting. Both seems to use the original Kube v1 drivers with no modifications in the tuning, at least that what it says in the description. Do you have any experience with the Kube Plus?


Yes I do , I have the orange plus as well as regular orange kube and a black one


----------



## fonkepala

mochill said:


> Yes I do , I have the orange plus as well as regular orange kube and a black one



Nice! How different is the regular Kube v1 & the Kube Plus? Which, to you, sounds better? Is the Plus really a 'plus' in terms of SQ? I know the cable is much nicer than the original.


----------



## Sam L

Nool said:


> @cqtek thanks for the clarification, I didn't realize your scores weren't universal.
> 
> As always opinion on audio is mostly subjective; here are the other posts I referenced in making my decision to go with the Rambo II:
> 
> ...



I'll update the Rambo ii and smabat graphs shortly. My coupler came in and I just got my mic and soundcard calibrated.


----------



## fonkepala

I spent last weekend and most of Monday listening to the Snow Lotus 1.0+ Commemorative Edition. Generally, I'm happy with this one. These are great mid-centric buds. Not to say that the bass and treble aren't extended, they are…but the mids takes center stage, literally. The emphasis on mids and upper mids make vocals really nice-sounding and sweet. You'll feel like the singer is standing right in front, up close and personal. Also, jazz tracks from Dexter Gordon & Sonny Rollins sound great when listened to on these. But, I do feel like some of the sub bass bleeds into the mids a tiny bit, making them sound very slightly muffled on certain tracks. 

Other than that, bass sounds ok with adequate punch and speed. Treble isn't rolled off, they're quite present but are in no way piercing or sharp. However, I wouldn't say these are very highly detailed or the most-resolving of buds. I felt a general lack of energy and excitement while listening to these. Soundstage is good but not the greatest, so is imaging. They didn't sound too all-over-the-place or congested even on busier tracks.

Out of all my dac/amps pairings, these sounded best with the Stoner Acoustics UD130. IMHO, the Snow Lotus 1.0+ CE would benefit from a bright source or more-analytical sounding gear down the chain. When paired with the Fiio M6 it sounded good as well. My Qudelix 5K is still stuck in customs, so I didn't have the opportunity to try these with the 5K. 

As for build quality, the blue shells look nice. I *really* love the cable, they're super. Below the splitter, it feels like some kind of fabric. Above the splitter, it's the more common rubberized cord sort of cable we're all used to, but thick and not flimsy. Not tangle-y at all. I wish more cheap earbuds have cables like this one.

In short, the Snow Lotus 1.0+ CE is a very inoffensive pair of buds. They make for a relaxed, sort-of-fun listening session. Not terribly exciting though as they lack a greater degree of detail and transparency. I think these sound sufficiently good so as to fit a lot of people's preferred SS, especially those who are upgrading from beater buds or the crappy ones that come with phones. 

These are perfect for when you're getting some work done and don't want/need to concentrate too much on the music. A keeper for me. 

YMMV.


----------



## Braekfast

My OG VE Monk earbuds finally died after several years of service. I really liked them, which also means I haven't been paying attention to the earbud world at all over the past years. I have some Monk Plus buds, but they're just not quite as good as the monks. I'm kicking myself now for not buying multiple of the OG Monks back then, but there's nothing I can do about that now. 

So I've been looking at what earbuds would be good replacements for my monks, but I'm getting a little lost. So far I've found the NiceHCK ME80, MEMT T5 and NiceHCK DIY MX500 that all seem to have good reviews. But I'm not sure how they compare to the OG Monks, and I'm probably missing some other great models because I looked over them when browsing through the sea of earbud models. But hey, at least there's plenty of choice.


----------



## Sam L

fonkepala said:


> I spent last weekend and most of Monday listening to the Snow Lotus 1.0+ Commemorative Edition. Generally, I'm happy with this one. These are great mid-centric buds. Not to say that the bass and treble aren't extended, they are…but the mids takes center stage, literally. The emphasis on mids and upper mids make vocals really nice-sounding and sweet. You'll feel like the singer is standing right in front, up close and personal. Also, jazz tracks from Dexter Gordon & Sonny Rollins sound great when listened to on these. But, I do feel like some of the sub bass bleeds into the mids a tiny bit, making them sound very slightly muffled on certain tracks.
> 
> Other than that, bass sounds ok with adequate punch and speed. Treble isn't rolled off, they're quite present but are in no way piercing or sharp. However, I wouldn't say these are very highly detailed or the most-resolving of buds. I felt a general lack of energy and excitement while listening to these. Soundstage is good but not the greatest, so is imaging. They didn't sound too all-over-the-place or congested even on busier tracks.
> 
> ...


Great summary, fully agree with your observations. I can't seem to find mine at the moment...


----------



## waynes world

Sam L said:


> Great summary, fully agree with your observations. I can't seem to find mine at the moment...



The ol' "Too many buds, where'd I put them?" syndrome!


----------



## Sam L

random side note, can't recall if I've read this observation before on this thread -- Foam tends to affect FR from 20 to 1.5k mostly, with not so much being affected >2khz.


----------



## mochill

fonkepala said:


> Nice! How different is the regular Kube v1 & the Kube Plus? Which, to you, sounds better? Is the Plus really a 'plus' in terms of SQ? I know the cable is much nicer than the original.


Definitely a plus 😉


----------



## Sam L

waynes world said:


> The ol' "Too many buds, where'd I put them?" syndrome!


LOL. never had that problem until I discovered this thread and found out that you can get awesome SQ for $10.


----------



## Sam L (Aug 25, 2020)

Some things to note regarding these graphs:
- mic is calibrated
- USB soundcard is calibrated
- readings are captured with an iec711 coupler
- these graphs are only for *comparative *purposes between earbuds only. I haven't figured out a way to simulate "real world" readings yet. I have ear molds in my possession to modify but I'm not convinced that even after finding a way to attach the coupler to these molds that the results will be accurate.


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 25, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Some things to note regarding these graphs:
> - mic is calibrated
> - USB soundcard is calibrated
> - readings are captured with an iec711 coupler
> - these graphs are only for *comparative *purposes between earbuds only. I haven't figured out a way to simulate "real world" readings yet. I have ear molds in my possession to modify but I'm not convinced that even after finding a way to attach the coupler to these molds that the results will be accurate.



Are you just holding the bud against the coupler opening currently?

Also are you using REW? If so you can check mark 'include legend' when using the capture feature, if you label the measurements. That way you don't need to go back and edit the picture with labels.


I've just received an IMM-6 and I'm currently trying to sort out a good way to take earbud measurements as well.

More info here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15814280


----------



## Alex.Grimm

fonkepala said:


> Interesting. Both seems to use the original Kube v1 drivers with no modifications in the tuning, at least that what it says in the description. Do you have any experience with the Kube Plus?


KubePlus its mod by Willsound


----------



## Alex.Grimm

fonkepala said:


> Nice! How different is the regular Kube v1 & the Kube Plus? Which, to you, sounds better? Is the Plus really a 'plus' in terms of SQ? I know the cable is much nicer than the original.


KubePlus sounds better and different than original Kube v1. Original Kube good, slightly bright and nice bass, but KubePlus its Willsound mod have big bass and sound like fullsize headphones


----------



## fonkepala

mochill said:


> Definitely a plus 😉





Alex.Grimm said:


> KubePlus its mod by Willsound



Okay, I'll add the Kube Plus to my 'to get' queue then  Thanks.


----------



## fonkepala

Alex.Grimm said:


> KubePlus sounds better and different than original Kube v1. Original Kube good, slightly bright and nice bass, but KubePlus its Willsound mod have big bass and sound like fullsize headphones



Right, thanks! You got me at 'sounds like fullsize headphones'. Anything to not put on my Grados & Senns in this summer heat!


----------



## fonkepala

Sam L said:


> Some things to note regarding these graphs:
> - mic is calibrated
> - USB soundcard is calibrated
> - readings are captured with an iec711 coupler
> - these graphs are only for *comparative *purposes between earbuds only. I haven't figured out a way to simulate "real world" readings yet. I have ear molds in my possession to modify but I'm not convinced that even after finding a way to attach the coupler to these molds that the results will be accurate.



Interesting. So in short the Rambo II has more pronounced mids than the Smabat, except for that hump in the upper mids (2k Hz) that the Smabat has. For bass both are nearly identical so as to probably not matter much?


----------



## Sam L

fonkepala said:


> Interesting. So in short the Rambo II has more pronounced mids than the Smabat, except for that hump in the upper mids (2k Hz) that the Smabat has. For bass both are nearly identical so as to probably not matter much?





Nool said:


> @cqtek thanks for the clarification, I didn't realize your scores weren't universal.
> 
> As always opinion on audio is mostly subjective; here are the other posts I referenced in making my decision to go with the Rambo II:
> 
> ...



I'm still rather new to the whole earbuds experience, so I haven't listened to end game buds, but I'm going to guess that the rambo ii's get the listener really close to end game territory which is remarkable considering the price.


----------



## Sam L

assassin10000 said:


> Are you just holding the bud against the coupler opening currently?
> 
> Also are you using REW? If so you can check mark 'include legend' when using the capture feature, if you label the measurements. That way you don't need to go back and edit the picture with labels.
> 
> ...


Your DYI project is inspiring. Thanks for the REW tip. I'm just holding the earbud against the coupler for now, but feel pretty confident that the readings are fine for comparing different buds. I take three 32 sample readings of each side and average them all, but the variances are fairly minimal.


----------



## SciOC

I'm going to order my first, second and probably third set of buds during this sale since I'm kinda bored ATM.  Will definitely get the b40, me80, but looking for one more expensive set.

2 must haves:. Good bass, detachable cables.  Budget is up to the gold/black st10s which can be had for about $115 during this sale....  Budget is honestly flexible, also considering the original ST10 and Rambo ii.  Any others to consider?


----------



## baskingshark

SciOC said:


> I'm going to order my first, second and probably third set of buds during this sale since I'm kinda bored ATM.  Will definitely get the b40, me80, but looking for one more expensive set.
> 
> 2 must haves:. Good bass, detachable cables.  Budget is up to the gold/black st10s which can be had for about $115 during this sale....  Budget is honestly flexible, also considering the original ST10 and Rambo ii.  Any others to consider?



B40 and ME80 are excellent for the price, and u can see which shape fits u better too. I haven't tried the Black gold ST10S, but the original ST10 is one of the best buds I have in terms of technical performance. Neutralish with bass boost and superb subbass for a bud. Only thing is I find the ST10 a bit cold in tonality with timbre not that natural.
ME80 is not that bassy though, I think u are a fellow basshead and that might not suit your bass tastes, but it is cheap, so why not.

For your criteria, u can consider the SMABAT M2 Pro that just released, it is a younger brother of the ST10 series, better fit and timbre, though worse technicalities. It has tuning modules to give a neutralish bright tuning or V shaped tuning (and if u are brave to solder, u can change the internal driver for even the ST10S black gold driver). On a V shaped tuning module, the SMABAT M2 Pro can hit the subbass quite ok for a bud, but not as good as the original ST10 in extension and bass quantity. It is sort of a mini ST10, just with tuning options.

Also u can check out the RY4S plus 32 ohm or RY4S 300 ohm, they come in detachable versions. The RY4S plus 32 ohm is V shaped, quite good subbass extension but midbass bleeds and upper mids are hot. Bass is a bit flabby too.
RY4S 300 ohm is the more refined bigger brother, more U shaped, not so hot upper mids, but bass doesn't extend as deep as the RY4S plus 32 ohm. Bass is much tighter with no midbass bleed too. Though as the 300 ohm name suggests, it needs amping.

Another option is the HE150 Pro is a V shaped $20 plus IEM, can be a bit sibilant and hot, but the bass actually sounds like a typical IEM bass in extension and quantity. Only thing is it is 150 ohm impedance, needs amping. And this set has non detachable noodle thin cables, the diameter of the cable really doesn't give me confidence it can last, but so far I've had it for 9 months, it is still working, keeping fingers crossed.


----------



## antdroid

I just tried out the Smabat ST-10s GOLD.

I've never tried wearing an earbud over-ears like an IEM before. Actually fits well. I think it has good warm bass response, but its way too shouty and bright. I did some measurements using my IEC711 coupler and made an EQ for it to improve it and give it better subbass performance.

If you own one, this is a standard 10-Band EQ setting for it that I simulated in software first, and then actually measured later (in purple) with the gray color as the default tuning.


----------



## antdroid

Sam L said:


> Some things to note regarding these graphs:
> - mic is calibrated
> - USB soundcard is calibrated
> - readings are captured with an iec711 coupler
> - these graphs are only for *comparative *purposes between earbuds only. I haven't figured out a way to simulate "real world" readings yet. I have ear molds in my possession to modify but I'm not convinced that even after finding a way to attach the coupler to these molds that the results will be accurate.


you st-10 looks generally similar to my graph i just posted above though i have gold version and it has a bit more shouty treble. did you use the coupler add-on for ear buds? I use that, and then just place the ear bud on it without a lot of pressure and use a little bit of tape to hold it in place.


----------



## cqtek

rprodrigues said:


> @cqtek Once Rambo II is at half the price of the ST-10s black/gold, would you say Rambo II is a no brainer?


I will never tire of repeating that Rambo II has an excellent quality/price ratio. But I can't say anything in comparison with the ST-10s black/gold, because I don't have them.


----------



## Sam L (Aug 26, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Some things to note regarding these graphs:
> - mic is calibrated
> - USB soundcard is calibrated
> - readings are captured with an iec711 coupler
> - these graphs are only for *comparative *purposes between earbuds only. I haven't figured out a way to simulate "real world" readings yet. I have ear molds in my possession to modify but I'm not convinced that even after finding a way to attach the coupler to these molds that the results will be accurate.



Actually, here's a more accurate comparison. I realized that I didn't account for differences between the output levels due to individual sensitivity.


----------



## Sam L

antdroid said:


> you st-10 looks generally similar to my graph i just posted above though i have gold version and it has a bit more shouty treble. did you use the coupler add-on for ear buds? I use that, and then just place the ear bud on it without a lot of pressure and use a little bit of tape to hold it in place.


Still trying to figure out how to actually place the bud on the coupler. But for now I hold it gently on the iem add-on. I picked up one of these and will eventually get around to integrating the coupler into it.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000308875071.html


----------



## Sam L

3 budget buds that are frequently mentioned here -- b40, me80 and fengru's version of the mx500. 

My favorite is the me80, but the mx500 sounds FANTASTIC for $3.61 (mic and a pretty decent cable).


----------



## vygas

I re-cabled the Shozy Gen 1, managed to damage the left driver doing so, at least they're something to look at whilst I try get a replacement driver.


----------



## thehientk

Sam L said:


> 3 budget buds that are frequently mentioned here -- b40, me80 and fengru's version of the mx500.
> 
> My favorite is the me80, but the mx500 sounds FANTASTIC for $3.61 (mic and a pretty decent cable).


Me too. My favorite is the me80. Damn it, good earbud.


----------



## antdroid

Sam L said:


> Still trying to figure out how to actually place the bud on the coupler. But for now I hold it gently on the iem add-on. I picked up one of these and will eventually get around to integrating the coupler into it.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000308875071.html



There's an attachment that you can add to the coupler that makes a flat wide round slot for the earbud to fit in. It's a round ring looking thing that came with my coupler.


----------



## fonkepala

Sam L said:


> 3 budget buds that are frequently mentioned here -- b40, me80 and fengru's version of the mx500.
> 
> My favorite is the me80, but the mx500 sounds FANTASTIC for $3.61 (mic and a pretty decent cable).



Very interesting to see the B40 as having the most amount of bass & mids from that FR graph. Offhand, I wouldn't have pegged it as being the bass-iest of the three. And apart from everything above the upper mids, the ME80 and EMX500 seems to be pretty much identical based on the graph. 

Intriguing...


----------



## theresanarc

Any recent contenders to the Qian39 in terms of the form factor of that earbud?


----------



## Slater

Sam L said:


> 3 budget buds that are frequently mentioned here -- b40, me80 and fengru's version of the mx500.
> 
> My favorite is the me80, but the mx500 sounds FANTASTIC for $3.61 (mic and a pretty decent cable).





thehientk said:


> Me too. My favorite is the me80. Damn it, good earbud.



Another fan of the ME80. My favorite earbud by far.


----------



## Nool (Aug 26, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Actually, here's a more accurate comparison. I realized that I didn't account for differences between the output levels due to individual sensitivity.


I am a bit disappointed at the treble rolloff in your measurement of the Rambo II, as I do prefer some brightness. OTOH the ME80  looks very well tuned, and has some pretty impressive treble extension for a $20 earbud.. c'est la vie. Edit: also for anyone reading, a frequency response only outlines the "flavor" of the device. Timbre, imaging, detail etc are different from tonality.

I picked up a ksc75 which seems closer to my preferred signature, I'll do a comparison between it and the Rambo II when they arrive.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

theresanarc said:


> Any recent contenders to the Qian39 in terms of the form factor of that earbud?


Zen ll


----------



## Sam L

Nool said:


> I am a bit disappointed at the treble rolloff in your measurement of the Rambo II, as I do prefer some brightness. OTOH the ME80  looks very well tuned, and has some pretty impressive treble extension for a $20 earbud.. c'est la vie. Edit: also for anyone reading, a frequency response only outlines the "flavor" of the device. Timbre, imaging, detail etc are different from tonality.
> 
> I picked up a ksc75 which seems closer to my preferred signature, I'll do a comparison between it and the Rambo II when they arrive.


Yeah, I measure and re-measured the rambos for that reason -- I couldn't reconcile what I saw on the graph vs. what I was hearing. I prefer bright buds and iems as well. That said, the rambos have laudable detail retrieval. They are just not a "bright" sounding bud. They definitely sound better in person.


----------



## antdroid

The me80 looks promising. I'm still looking for a yincrow x6 replacement with better technical performance and most of these earbuds are too bright or muddy and dark. The x6 seems to have the most balanced sound without eq. Rw9 isn't bad either but maybe a tad too lean.

The dt-10s with eq sounds pretty good though but would prefer not having to eq it.

Prices isn't a concern too much for earbuds pricing. I've owned the chaconne before and isn't my tuning preference and it's fit was hard to get it to stay in without moving around sure to it's weight. I also remember enjoying the rose maysa a lot but it too had odd fit.


----------



## feverfive

Hmmm, I haven't tried an earbud since fruitlessly trying to get a pair of those old school Apple 'buds to seat properly in my ear a few years ago, but for some reason, have a sudden interest in them (maybe the Fiio EM5 release is piquing my interest?).  Anyway, a pair of the above-mentioned ME80 can be had from AE for ~$14USD during their current sale that ends on the 28th.  This might be my first ever AE purchase.


----------



## fonkepala

Nool said:


> I picked up a ksc75 which seems closer to my preferred signature, I'll do a comparison between it and the Rambo II when they arrive.



Looking forward to that KSC75-Rambo II comparo. Thanks in advance.



feverfive said:


> Anyway, a pair of the above-mentioned ME80 can be had from AE for ~$14USD during their current sale that ends on the 28th.  This might be my first ever AE purchase.



I say go for it!


----------



## Cat Music

Is there anything better than VE Zen 2.0?


----------



## SciOC

baskingshark said:


> B40 and ME80 are excellent for the price, and u can see which shape fits u better too. I haven't tried the Black gold ST10S, but the original ST10 is one of the best buds I have in terms of technical performance. Neutralish with bass boost and superb subbass for a bud. Only thing is I find the ST10 a bit cold in tonality with timbre not that natural.
> ME80 is not that bassy though, I think u are a fellow basshead and that might not suit your bass tastes, but it is cheap, so why not.
> 
> For your criteria, u can consider the SMABAT M2 Pro that just released, it is a younger brother of the ST10 series, better fit and timbre, though worse technicalities. It has tuning modules to give a neutralish bright tuning or V shaped tuning (and if u are brave to solder, u can change the internal driver for even the ST10S black gold driver). On a V shaped tuning module, the SMABAT M2 Pro can hit the subbass quite ok for a bud, but not as good as the original ST10 in extension and bass quantity. It is sort of a mini ST10, just with tuning options.
> ...


Yep, basshead but I can appreciate different signatures.  These are all so cheap I may as well buy a bunch. Just having trouble settling on a "higher" end pair.   Figure with all the coupons I have I may as well buy something but don't know if I should jump straight to something like the black and gold st10s or go for the Rambo 2 or original ST10 or any number of others on the market.


----------



## waynes world

Cat Music said:


> Is there anything better than VE Zen 2.0?



VE Zen 1.0


----------



## Nool

Sam L said:


> Yeah, I measure and re-measured the rambos for that reason -- I couldn't reconcile what I saw on the graph vs. what I was hearing. I prefer bright buds and iems as well. That said, the rambos have laudable detail retrieval. They are just not a "bright" sounding bud. They definitely sound better in person.


Could you give a quick comparison of the technical abilities between the Rambo II and the ME80? How's their timbre, detail, imaging etc compare? It seems they both use a titanium plated diaphragm (as does the ksc75), so it'd be interesting to see what exactly is different.


----------



## fonkepala (Aug 26, 2020)

Nool said:


> Could you give a quick comparison of the technical abilities between the Rambo II and the ME80? How's their timbre, detail, imaging etc compare? It seems they both use a titanium plated diaphragm (as does the ksc75), so it'd be interesting to see what exactly is different.



There's also a few detailed reviews on the Rambo II posted here not too long ago. Use the search function and you'll most likely find them.

Here you go: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/isn-rambo-ii.24542/reviews
https://moonstarreviews.net/isn-audio-rambo-ii-review/
https://hiendportable.com/isn-rambo-english-review/

No comparisons to the ME80, however. But may help you form a more detailed impression of the Rambo II.


----------



## Sam L

fonkepala said:


> Very interesting to see the B40 as having the most amount of bass & mids from that FR graph. Offhand, I wouldn't have pegged it as being the bass-iest of the three. And apart from everything above the upper mids, the ME80 and EMX500 seems to be pretty much identical based on the graph.
> 
> Intriguing...


Yeah, in real life, the b40 don't appear to be bassier then the rest, but they do sound noticeably congested with that lower range bump. There's also significant channel imbalance on the b40.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Cat Music said:


> Is there anything better than VE Zen 2.0?


DQSM Turandot but this is a completely different signature. Less warmth and bass, but more detailed and more balanced.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

SciOC said:


> Yep, basshead


If you basshead you should try
-Zen 2.0 300ohm - mid warm, need powerful dap
-Smabat ST-10 or ST-10s Gold 150 ohm (not Silver),  - mid cold, gold better than st-10 green
-Willsound MK2 or KubePlus (from Indonesia)
-Ry4s Plus MMCX cheep option like MK2


----------



## rprodrigues (Aug 26, 2020)

Nool said:


> Could you give a quick comparison of the technical abilities between the Rambo II and the ME80? How's their timbre, detail, imaging etc compare? It seems they both use a titanium plated diaphragm (as does the ksc75), so it'd be interesting to see what exactly is different.



Try reading this https://hiendportable.com/nicehck-me80-english-review/ and then https://hiendportable.com/isn-rambo-ii-english-review/.

I've ordered both but I still don't know if I keep both orders.
I have no earbuds yet.


----------



## assassin10000

Anyone in the US looking for an ME80? It doesn't fit my ears so I'm looking to pass it along. PM me.


Here's a measurement of the ME80 & RY4S I have. Both of which I don't actually use. These were measured with full foams.


----------



## Nool

fonkepala said:


> Looking forward to that KSC75-Rambo II comparo. Thanks in advance.


Don't expect it for another two weeks or so, placed my order for the Rambo II on the 17th, and it still hasn't left China. I'll definitely post it though, I'm quite interested how good the ksc75 really is.


----------



## fonkepala

Nool said:


> Don't expect it for another two weeks or so, placed my order for the Rambo II on the 17th, and it still hasn't left China. I'll definitely post it though, I'm quite interested how good the ksc75 really is.



Great! Looking forward to it. Did you order your Rambo II from Penon?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Are there buds out there with a different driver than a DD?

Or are there some reasons as to why the majority of them use DD?


----------



## Nool

fonkepala said:


> Great! Looking forward to it. Did you order your Rambo II from Penon?


Yup, through their AliExpress page.


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 26, 2020)

RikudouGoku said:


> Are there buds out there with a different driver than a DD?
> 
> Or are there some reasons as to why the majority of them use DD?



There are a very few that aren't DD. @ClieOS made a planar one iirc.

The main reason is with earbuds, DD is the easiest to use and the most efficient. Plus many are easy to drive and match well with portable use, which is what a majority of ear bud users probably want.

No chance to make a decent BA earbud, they just don't work properly without a seal.


----------



## Sam L

Has anyone ordered the fiio em5?


----------



## fonkepala

Nool said:


> Yup, through their AliExpress page.


Strange. Penon usually ships quite fast IIRC.



Sam L said:


> Has anyone ordered the fiio em5?



A dude in the EA Facebook group has 'em, I think.


----------



## wskl

Sam L said:


> Has anyone ordered the fiio em5?



ClieOS already got it
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...d-open-earbuds-fiio-em5.940465/#post-15819813


----------



## luckyeights

Alex.Grimm said:


> KubePlus sounds better and different than original Kube v1. Original Kube good, slightly bright and nice bass, but KubePlus its Willsound mod have big bass and sound like fullsize headphones




Where does one buy a kube plus?


----------



## luckyeights

Also how does the kube plus compare to the willsound buds like the mk2 mk32?  Is the kube plus better?


----------



## jogawag

luckyeights said:


> Where does one buy a kube plus?


https://www.rholupat.com/indonesian-buds/kubeplus-orange.html
https://www.rholupat.com/indonesian-buds/kubeplus-black.html


----------



## antdroid

RikudouGoku said:


> Are there buds out there with a different driver than a DD?
> 
> Or are there some reasons as to why the majority of them use DD?



Dunu made one. alpha i think? it has a BA and DD i believe


----------



## cenizas

RikudouGoku said:


> Are there buds out there with a different driver than a DD?
> 
> Or are there some reasons as to why the majority of them use DD?


There's the pislo earbuds from a Chinese based company mainly selling in mainland China that use a piezo but cost about 7-800usd. I've tried them before, huge stage but resolution wise they're just ok. Unique sound, great looks but the asking price is too tough too tough to swallow.


----------



## baskingshark

cenizas said:


> There's the pislo earbuds from a Chinese based company mainly selling in mainland China that use a piezo but cost about 7-800usd. I've tried them before, huge stage but resolution wise they're just ok. Unique sound, great looks but the asking price is too tough too tough to swallow.



Wow, that's very unique indeed. How was the timbre on that piezo earbud? So far for the budget piezo IEMs that I've tried, most of them were airy and had good transients/technicalities but they had a weird timbre for acoustic instruments, sounded "brittle" to me. Like for example, they had a very quick decay for drums that sounded a bit too unnatural. But for electronic/synthetic music, they were very good. The piezos were also rather power hungry in general, and scaled better with amping.



RikudouGoku said:


> Are there buds out there with a different driver than a DD?
> 
> Or are there some reasons as to why the majority of them use DD?



DD is probably easier to tune and cheaper than BAs, no crossovers etc I suppose. Earbuds look to me to be relatively cheaper than IEMs, so adding BAs will hike up the price? Like for a couple of bucks you can get musical bliss already with stuff like the Vidos, Monks etc. 

BAs used to be very pricey in the past, and were mainly used in hearing aids and military hardware. It is only the past 3 - 4 years or so that CHIFI brought down the prices of BAs, so that we can enjoy some small taste of audiophiledom without needing to sell a kidney. Knowles used to have a stranglehold on the BAs, a single BA western IEM used to go for at least $100 USD and multi BA sets would have been $200 - 300 USD minimum. Now $30 can get u a not to bad sounding multi BA set eg KZ, CCA, TRN, and we gotta thank Bellsing for that. Though the ethics is another issue, there's a big lawsuit now going on in US, with Knowles alledging that Bellsing copied their BAs: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/cxqlje/knowles_files_claim_with_us_trade_commission_to/

But I do like the timbre, tonality and natural bass decay/movement of air that come with these DD earbuds, so that's definitely a good point about using DD.


----------



## Sam L

antdroid said:


> Dunu made one. alpha i think? it has a BA and DD i believe


Interesting, especially considering you'd think the ba would suffer without an iem-like seal.


----------



## Danneq

antdroid said:


> Dunu made one. alpha i think? it has a BA and DD i believe



Pretty good sounding but the worst fit ever.


----------



## RikudouGoku

antdroid said:


> Dunu made one. alpha i think? it has a BA and DD i believe


Damn, 16mm dd + BA. But that fit looks horrible.

I wonder how good the vocals would sound in a planar bud though...


----------



## Danneq

RikudouGoku said:


> Damn, 16mm dd + BA. But that fit looks horrible.
> 
> I wonder how good the vocals would sound in a planar bud though...



I really liked the sound of the Alpha 1, not the best I've heard, but it sounded unique. The DD was for lower frequencies and the BA for upper mids and highs. I think the two drivers went together pretty well.

But I could not get a good fit at all. I think it sounded the best with just donut foams on it, but the buds kept popping out from my ears. Didn't like the rings or hooks. Sold them but was tempted to buy a new pair about 1 year later when a seller on Ebay.uk sold them new for £50. But I soon remembered the poor fit and didn't buy it...


----------



## mochill

I have alpha 1 , fits great in my ears and sound is full and detailed


----------



## Danneq

mochill said:


> I have alpha 1 , fits great in my ears and sound is full and detailed



What do you use? The hooks, rings or foams?


----------



## mochill

Bass foam


----------



## gundam37

Hi all,

Am new here. Been using the supplied apple earpods for the longest time. Don't really like IEMs as I like to be aware of my surroundings when I listen to music. Looking for a pair of earbuds and would like something with lots of PRAT (i.e. Pace, Rhythm and Timing, toe-tapping...).
Did some searching and it seems that the original VE ZEN 1 is what i am looking for but too late, it is discontinued. 
What other alternative earbuds should I be looking at? How is the VE ZEN 2 in terms of PRAT? Is it a worthy contender? People seems to prefer the ZEN 1 in general.
Any advise would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.


----------



## DivineCurrent

gundam37 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Am new here. Been using the supplied apple earpods for the longest time. Don't really like IEMs as I like to be aware of my surroundings when I listen to music. Looking for a pair of earbuds and would like something with lots of PRAT (i.e. Pace, Rhythm and Timing, toe-tapping...).
> Did some searching and it seems that the original VE ZEN 1 is what i am looking for but too late, it is discontinued.
> ...


I am also considering the VE Zen 2.0 as an upgrade to my VE Monks (most people agree it is an upgrade, and I should hope so for the price.)
I also took a look at the new FiiO EM5, which seems to be excellently designed but I don't think I'm willing to spend $300 for an earbud right now.
Anyone with the Zen 2.0 want to chime in?


----------



## Braekfast

Hello, I was kindly redirected here from the budget earphones thread by darmanastartes . I hope it's allright that I'll just copy the text from mypost there:

I'm looking to replace my original VE Monk earbuds, since they died. I got myself a Monk Plus and a Monk Mini, but they both seem to sound worse than the original version. I've been looking around the different forum threads and the ME80 seems to come up quite frequently, but that's the only one I've really found so far. Trying to browse Aliexpress itself has been difficult to say the least, since there are like a million different models.

I was looking to stay under 20 euro originally (mostly to avoid import taxes), though I can bump that up to 50 if a really good option presents itself. I realize I'd probably have an easier time finding an IEM, but my ear canals cannot stand to have any kind of IEM tip in them for longer than like 15 minutes. I've tried.

I tend to listen to rock, orchestral (soundtracks mostly), synthwave, metal and vocal stuff (Longest Johns etc). I'm not sure how to desribe the sound I'm looking for, I can only tell you that I liked the VE Monk just fine, same thing with the sennheiser HD555's I use at my desk. I'll also be driving these from my phone, though I don't think that's a problem for most earbuds. Any recommendations are appreciated.


----------



## gundam37

Alex.Grimm said:


> If you basshead you should try
> -Zen 2.0 300ohm - mid warm, need powerful dap
> -Smabat ST-10 or ST-10s Gold 150 ohm (not Silver),  - mid cold, gold better than st-10 green
> -Willsound MK2 or KubePlus (from Indonesia)
> -Ry4s Plus MMCX cheep option like MK2


Hi @Alex.Grimm , saw your list of recommendations. Would you be able to share their PRAT characteristics and which do you feel has the most PRAT? Thanks.


----------



## Sam L

gundam37 said:


> Hi @Alex.Grimm , saw your list of recommendations. Would you be able to share their PRAT characteristics and which do you feel has the most PRAT? Thanks.


Curious if you are a drummer? PRaT as a term has evolved to more of a esoteric / intensely subjective term.


----------



## Sam L (Aug 27, 2020)

Brief sharing of my morning listening....

I finally got around to opening up a bunch of aliexpress iems and buds that finally came in (mostly sub $20 items). I spent most of last night reading for a few hours, listening to music through my me80's.

What makes the me80 distinctive is the ease of moving from an iem to the me80. The sound profile of the me80 is more harman-ish than nearly every bud I've been snapping up the last couple months (around 7 or 8 buds).

That's not to say that the me80 is even remotely close to harman target, but more of an observation that (from my limited experience) most buds sound warm, have strong lower freq presence with pronounced treble rolloff. Yes, there are brighter-ish buds but when compared to a harman-ish tuned iem, they sound significantly lacking in the treble.

If you're an iem user pondering buds, start with the me80.


----------



## Sam L

Oh hey.... I passed 500 posts finally! 

I don't know how some of you have massed post counts into the thousands, mind-boggling. I've been a member for a number of years but started posting more during the pandemic. 

Thank you all for the learning opportunity and I hope to be an active contributor going forward.


----------



## Sam L

gundam37 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Am new here. Been using the supplied apple earpods for the longest time. Don't really like IEMs as I like to be aware of my surroundings when I listen to music. Looking for a pair of earbuds and would like something with lots of PRAT (i.e. Pace, Rhythm and Timing, toe-tapping...).
> Did some searching and it seems that the original VE ZEN 1 is what i am looking for but too late, it is discontinued.
> ...


What are you using as a source by the way. Synergy can affect PRaT noticeably. Also, I think the zen 2's are 300ohm? That will take some power to drive.

You might want to take a look at the 120 ohm monk lites. One of the best you can get and only $20.


----------



## jogawag (Aug 27, 2020)

Braekfast said:


> Hello, I was kindly redirected here from the budget earphones thread by darmanastartes . I hope it's allright that I'll just copy the text from mypost there:
> 
> I'm looking to replace my original VE Monk earbuds, since they died. I got myself a Monk Plus and a Monk Mini, but they both seem to sound worse than the original version. I've been looking around the different forum threads and the ME80 seems to come up quite frequently, but that's the only one I've really found so far. Trying to browse Aliexpress itself has been difficult to say the least, since there are like a million different models.
> 
> ...



I also don't like VE monk plus, but I don't have listened to original VE monk...
Then I recommend you below.

・quian25 (I heard that this sounds like original VE monk.)
    For reference site: https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4247643

・NiceHCK Traceless (I have clear red & blue no mic version of this.)

Total price is about $12, so you can buy both. : )


----------



## fonkepala

Sam L said:


> Brief sharing of my morning listening....
> 
> I finally got around to opening up a bunch of aliexpress iems and buds that finally came in (mostly sub $20 items). I spent most of last night reading for a few hours, listening to music through my me80's.
> 
> ...



I wholeheartedly agree with your observations on the ME80, aside from the Harman target as I don't know nearly enough in that regard. The ME80 would be great for users who are transitioning from IEMs. I think the most common hang-up people have with them is the iffy fit. And maybe the cable. Other than that, they're pretty much spot on. 



Sam L said:


> You might want to take a look at the 120 ohm monk lites. One of the best you can get and only $20.



Yup, I second that. The Monk Lite 120 is a great 'sleeper' bud (not in the sense it's great for sleeping).


----------



## fonkepala

Braekfast said:


> Hello, I was kindly redirected here from the budget earphones thread by darmanastartes . I hope it's allright that I'll just copy the text from mypost there:
> 
> I'm looking to replace my original VE Monk earbuds, since they died. I got myself a Monk Plus and a Monk Mini, but they both seem to sound worse than the original version. I've been looking around the different forum threads and the ME80 seems to come up quite frequently, but that's the only one I've really found so far. Trying to browse Aliexpress itself has been difficult to say the least, since there are like a million different models.
> 
> ...



I haven't heard the OG Monk, so not totally certain of your preferred SS... But If you're looking to stay under/around $20USD, I don't think you can go wrong with the ME80. Another would be the B40 which is even cheaper. If you intend to get another VE, then I recommend the Monk Lite 120ohm. Also the HE150 from Penon. EA buds is a good one as well.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

gundam37 said:


> Hi @Alex.Grimm , saw your list of recommendations. Would you be able to share their PRAT characteristics and which do you feel has the most PRAT? Thanks.


I can hardly help you with the Pratt Drum, I no longer have a lot from the list, you most likely need an earbud to play fast bass so that the dual pedal can be heard.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

KBEAR Marvel will be released tomorrow!! Let's await it! 


Spoiler


----------



## RikudouGoku

Alex.Grimm said:


> KBEAR Marvel will be released tomorrow!! Let's await it!
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Is this just their own brand on a typical MX500 bud? Cable and build looks similar to the Vido buds.


----------



## Sam L

Alex.Grimm said:


> I can hardly help you with the Pratt Drum, I no longer have a lot from the list, you most likely need an earbud to play fast bass so that the dual pedal can be heard.


Ah... Actually he means PRaT as an acronym for Pace Rhythm and Timing, a term borrowed from old school speaker enthusiasts. For headfiers it has come to identify quality of sound along the lines of musicality, but with a more visceral bias.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

RikudouGoku said:


> Is this just their own brand on a typical MX500 bud? Cable and build looks similar to the Vido buds.


Who knows, maybe this is another Vido rebranding as in NICEHCK Traceless. The photo shows that the jack is the same as that of the Vido, but many cheap Chinese earbuds use this type jack. "It probably isn't a rebranded vido just by looking at the drivers (it's missing the vent hole on the center of the drivers), but I definitely hope it isn't." (c) Ian Medina


----------



## Braekfast (Aug 27, 2020)

jogawag said:


> I also don't like VE monk plus, but I don't have listened to original VE monk...
> Then I recommend you below.
> ・quian25 (I heard that this sounds like original VE monk.)
> For reference site: https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4247643
> ...





fonkepala said:


> I haven't heard the OG Monk, so not totally certain of your preferred SS... But If you're looking to stay under/around $20USD, I don't think you can go wrong with the ME80. Another would be the B40 which is even cheaper. If you intend to get another VE, then I recommend the Monk Lite 120ohm. Also the HE150 from Penon. EA buds is a good one as well.


Thanks for both your answers. The ME80 is atually looking more and more attractive the more I read about it.
I can't seem to find these EA Buds you refer to. Maybe I'm using the wrong search term, is that their full name? 
About the 120ohm monk lite, would that not be difficult to drive off of my smartphone? I don't have any other sources at the moment.

I've also been looking around a bit on aliexpress, and I've seen these buds that all look rather attractive. I'll admit, I'm probably basing this more on their marketing and looks than on performance right now though.
-moondrop shiroyuki
-BK2
-MEMT T5

Having all these options is both a blessing and a curse


----------



## F700

For the ones on the fence to get the Smabat ST-10s Black/Gold, well I really encourage you to get one pair, provided you have a powerful source and the sound signature described in numerous previous posts suits you.

I am an IEM guy, but the Smabat gets a lot of listening time lately. It sounds good to excellent with all genres of music. I particularly like the open presentation of the sound, having hard hitting bass, full vocals, details and no fatiguing highs under the same roof. At USD 150.-, I am impressed.

After I got them, I thought that I would want/need to buy additional pairs of earbuds, but it’s not the case. I hit endgame button right from the start with these. Ignorance is bliss maybe, but I don’t think I need to « test » other earbuds, eventhough Ourart and Simphonio D2+ and D3 make me curious.

Smabat ST-10s Black/Gold driven at their full potential (with my gears):


----------



## RikudouGoku

F700 said:


> For the ones on the fence to get the Smabat ST-10s Black/Gold, well I really encourage you to get one pair, provided you have a powerful source and the sound signature described in numerous previous posts suits you.
> 
> I am an IEM guy, but the Smabat gets a lot of listening time lately. It sounds good to excellent with all genres of music. I particularly like the open presentation of the sound, having hard hitting bass, full vocals, details and no fatiguing highs under the same roof. At USD 150.-, I am impressed.
> 
> ...


You made me search up ourart and what is this supposed to be? A really weird iem or something lol


----------



## F700

RikudouGoku said:


> You made me search up ourart and what is this supposed to be? A really weird iem or something lol


I thought about the QJ21 (USD 245.-)


----------



## Sam L

Braekfast said:


> Hello, I was kindly redirected here from the budget earphones thread by darmanastartes . I hope it's allright that I'll just copy the text from mypost there:
> 
> I'm looking to replace my original VE Monk earbuds, since they died. I got myself a Monk Plus and a Monk Mini, but they both seem to sound worse than the original version. I've been looking around the different forum threads and the ME80 seems to come up quite frequently, but that's the only one I've really found so far. Trying to browse Aliexpress itself has been difficult to say the least, since there are like a million different models.
> 
> ...


I'd consider getting another orig monk?


fonkepala said:


> I haven't heard the OG Monk, so not totally certain of your preferred SS... But If you're looking to stay under/around $20USD, I don't think you can go wrong with the ME80. Another would be the B40 which is even cheaper. If you intend to get another VE, then I recommend the Monk Lite 120ohm. Also the HE150 from Penon. EA buds is a good one as well.



Agree with @fonkepala, all good recommendations. 

What did you not like about the Monk plus? I'm guessing a tad lifeless and missing sub bass rumble? That was my initial impression from opening up a pair this morning. Decent buds for the price but very uninspiring.


----------



## fonkepala

Braekfast said:


> Thanks for both your answers. The ME80 is atually looking more and more attractive the more I read about it.
> I can't seem to find these EA Buds you refer to. Maybe I'm using the wrong search term, is that their full name?
> About the 120ohm monk lite, would that not be difficult to drive off of my smartphone? I don't have any other sources at the moment.
> 
> ...



Link to EA buds on Penon's website: https://penonaudio.com/earbuds-anonymous.html
They're also available on Penon's Aliexpress store. There's a 50% discount for it which used to be available in the EA group on Facebook. Not sure if it's still there, or if the code can still be applied even if it is. I'd try and message Penon before making the purchase to be sure. Tell them you have an EA group discount code and if they're amenable to it, they'll adjust the price of your order accordingly.

As for the Monk Lite 120, not sure how it fares from a phone. Depends on what phone you have, I guess. I think the question isn't if it's difficult to drive from the phone or not, but rather if it can be driven well enough to reach its full potential from a phone. Therein lies the rub. I think as with most high impedance buds, they'd perform best when given enough juice with a good source.

The BK2 is nice too. Big plus point for it is that it has detachable cables. I just think it loses out to the ME80 in terms of SQ. Before I bought the ME80, the BK2 was one of my faves.

Haven't heard the Shiroyuki, but IIRC people say they're overly bright and too bass shy.

No idea about the MEMT T5.

Hope this helps.


----------



## fonkepala

F700 said:


> I thought about the QJ21 (USD 245.-)



The grill on that reminds me of the Rambo II.



Sam L said:


> I'd consider getting another orig monk?
> 
> Agree with @fonkepala, all good recommendations.
> 
> What did you not like about the Monk plus? I'm guessing a tad lifeless and missing sub bass rumble? That was my initial impression from opening up a pair this morning. Decent buds for the price but very uninspiring.



I don't think the original Monk is available for sale anymore. At least not on Ali.

I too found the Monk Plus to be underwhelming. I liked its soundstage but not much else.


----------



## Sam L

Braekfast said:


> Thanks for both your answers. The ME80 is atually looking more and more attractive the more I read about it.
> I can't seem to find these EA Buds you refer to. Maybe I'm using the wrong search term, is that their full name?
> About the 120ohm monk lite, would that not be difficult to drive off of my smartphone? I don't have any other sources at the moment.
> 
> ...


I'd stay away from the monk 120 if you're driving them from a phone. They open up significantly with power.


----------



## waynes world

Sam L said:


> I don't know how some of you have massed post counts into the thousands, mind-boggling. I've been a member for a number of years but started posting more during the pandemic.



For a few years, I had a problem. The problem was called "Head-Fi".

Anyway, congrats on your new-found addiction


----------



## Braekfast

Sam L said:


> I'd consider getting another orig monk?
> 
> 
> Agree with @fonkepala, all good recommendations.
> ...





fonkepala said:


> Link to EA buds on Penon's website: https://penonaudio.com/earbuds-anonymous.html
> They're also available on Penon's Aliexpress store. There's a 50% discount for it which used to be available in the EA group on Facebook. Not sure if it's still there, or if the code can still be applied even if it is. I'd try and message Penon before making the purchase to be sure. Tell them you have an EA group discount code and if they're amenable to it, they'll adjust the price of your order accordingly.
> 
> As for the Monk Lite 120, not sure how it fares from a phone. Depends on what phone you have, I guess. I think the question isn't if it's difficult to drive from the phone or not, but rather if it can be driven well enough to reach its full potential from a phone. Therein lies the rub. I think as with most high impedance buds, they'd perform best when given enough juice with a good source.
> ...


Indeed, soundstage wise they're comparable to the original monks, but the sound quality just sounds lifeless and less detailed in comparison to me. It's a shame the originals aren't being sold anymore.

So far it seems like the ME80 is the way to go for me then. I did find that code for the earbuds anonymous, thanks for the link by the way. How do those compare to the ME80? I'd assume they're better since even with the code they'd be about twice as expensive, but you never know.


----------



## cqtek

RikudouGoku said:


> You made me search up ourart and what is this supposed to be? A really weird iem or something lol


I didn't find its shape so strange, just special and different xD

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ourart-tini.23740/reviews


----------



## nxnje (Aug 27, 2020)

Hello everyone.
After some time with only IEMs I was thinking about trying earbuds one more time.
I'm used to my Pioneer SE-CE11 in terms of size as they're lovely and never fatiguing, while the KBEAR Knight, NiceHCK EB2, VIDO MX500 are too big and cause discomfort in my ears (I can't keep them in my ears for more than 5 minutes and I cannot fit them properly.

I have seen the NiceHCK B40 which has PK1 shell, and I was wondering if it's little just like the SE-CE11 or if it's identical to mx500 size.
Which is the smallest and cheapest earbud you know around 10$? I listen to EDM and subgenres, but I would just rather pick a comfortable one sacrifying the bass if that's needed. I just want comfort while using them at home when I wanna take a break from IEMs.
If you need some photos of the SE-CE11 against the KBEAR, I can provide, so you can tell me if there's something similar in terms of size.

(Little question: is there something similar in terms of size in the lowest price tag possibile or these smaller drivers can only be found in those kind of products? DQSM Turandot
https://it.aliexpress.com/item/4000...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_)


----------



## assassin10000

nxnje said:


> Hello everyone.
> After some time with only IEMs I was thinking about trying earbuds one more time.
> I'm used to my Pioneer SE-CE11 in terms of size as they're lovely and never fatiguing, while the KBEAR Knight, NiceHCK EB2, VIDO MX500 are too big and cause discomfort in my ears (I can't keep them in my ears for more than 5 minutes and I cannot fit them properly.
> 
> ...



B40 is 16.7mm, almost the same size as mx500 shells at 16.8mm. They are not true PK shells, but a larger modofied PK shaped shell.


Yuin/PK shells are typically 16.1mm and much more comfortable.


----------



## wskl

nxnje said:


> Hello everyone.
> After some time with only IEMs I was thinking about trying earbuds one more time.
> I'm used to my Pioneer SE-CE11 in terms of size as they're lovely and never fatiguing, while the KBEAR Knight, NiceHCK EB2, VIDO MX500 are too big and cause discomfort in my ears (I can't keep them in my ears for more than 5 minutes and I cannot fit them properly.
> 
> ...



Quite surprised to hear that you find the NiceHCK EB2 too big because they are what I consider to be a small shell.  I would suggest that you try the VE Monk Lite or the Qian39.

In the past, there was a PK shell earbud that was recommended by quite a few people on the Chitty Store but the link has now been removed.  There is something that has replaced it, it may or may not be the same, it is the 4th option (white SR2 16 ohms) in the link.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32801646835.html


Spoiler


----------



## thehientk

I just want to ask Yincrow X6 and Yincrow RW-9 are there many differences?
I'm using ME80, I need a bass earbud to listen to dance, pop, edm. Should I choose the X6, RW-9 or another earbuds ?


----------



## jogawag

nxnje said:


> Hello everyone.
> After some time with only IEMs I was thinking about trying earbuds one more time.
> I'm used to my Pioneer SE-CE11 in terms of size as they're lovely and never fatiguing, while the KBEAR Knight, NiceHCK EB2, VIDO MX500 are too big and cause discomfort in my ears (I can't keep them in my ears for more than 5 minutes and I cannot fit them properly.
> 
> ...



With the Pioneer SE-CE11, maybe the bass wasn't enough, right?

The white SR2 16 ohm in the Chitty Store recommended by the previous person, which is almost the same size as the SE-CE11, has a sufficient bass and is low price. I also recommend it.

Another recommendation is the DIY pk2 sunrise pro, a new product sold at the DIY Earphone Tribe Store where is a sibling store of the Chitty Store.
This is the above-mentioned white SR2 16 ohm silver-plated soft cable version with enhanced treble. If you negotiate, this price will probably be to $20. So if you can afford I recommend this more.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32818417010.html

Please note that these two earbuds require over 100 hours of burn-in.

As for the DQSM Turandot, the sound quality is great, but I returned it because the shell was so heavy metal that it was hard to keep in my ear. And it is the expensive earbuds for over $200.


----------



## jogawag (Aug 28, 2020)

thehientk said:


> I just want to ask Yincrow X6 and Yincrow RW-9 are there many differences?
> I'm using ME80, I need a bass earbud to listen to dance, pop, edm. Should I choose the X6, RW-9 or another earbuds ?



Yincrow RW-9 has stronger bass than NiceHCK ME80, so I think you can choose Yincrow RW-9.



However, since the bass of Yincrow X6 is emphasized more than that of Yincrow RW-9, I think it is better to select Yincrow X6.

And, Yincrow X6 has the same driver as Vido/NiceHCK Traceless, and only the cables and plugs have been refined, so the sound quality is almost the same.
So if you choose Vido/NiceHCK Traceless, you can add to buy the RY4S below.

The RY4S UE cable is also bass earbuds.
It is the first, second, and fourth options on the following pages.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32820438211.html

You can also enjoy re-cable with RY4S MMCX PLUS.
It is the second, fourth, sixth, eighth and ninth options on the following pages.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html



The HE150 is also highly recommended if you have willing to buy on taobao.
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=541083718151

if you have enough money(about $80), I recommend you SMABAT ST-10 most...

#Last but not least, thank you to the authors of FR Graph.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

1clearhead said:


> I just ordered the MEMT's latest earbuds, the *MEMT R7* earbud!


Now available on Aliexpress https://aliexpress.ru/item/1005001340090139.html


----------



## Alex.Grimm

jogawag said:


> The HE150 is also highly recommended if you have willing to buy on taobao.
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=541083718151


Still available on Aliexpress


Spoiler



HE 150:
https://aliexpress.ru/item/32973377218.html
HE 150PRO:
https://aliexpress.ru/item/32761965304.html
https://aliexpress.ru/item/32828878411.html
https://penonaudio.com/he-150pro.html


----------



## Alex.Grimm

KBEAR Marvel 


Spoiler



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001351336216.html


----------



## jogawag (Aug 28, 2020)

Alex.Grimm said:


> Still available on Aliexpress
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



Well, I want to check various things...

First of all, I had both HE150 and HE150Pro before, and their sounds were different. And the earbuds which I want to recommend is the HE150.




Next, you told me about the Fengru DIY HE150, not the original taobao HE150. (The drivers are different, because the values of Fengru DIY are the Sensitivity: 110dB/mw & Frequency Response Range: 20-20000Hz, and they are different from the values of original taobao HE150 page.)
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=541083718151 (This taobao HE150 page has existed from 2017/04/19 before. )




Last, the sound of the Fengru DIY HE150 may be similar to original taobao HE150's, but I don't know...

#Last but not least, thank you to the authors of FR Graph.


----------



## thehientk (Aug 28, 2020)

jogawag said:


> Yincrow RW-9 has stronger bass than NiceHCK ME80, so I think you can choose Yincrow RW-9.
> ​
> However, since the bass of Yincrow X6 is emphasized more than that of Yincrow RW-9, I think it is better to select Yincrow X6.
> 
> ...


RY4S UE better than Yincow x6 for bass ?
Edifier-H180 FR Graph really good.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

thehientk said:


> RY4S UE better than Yincow x6 for bass ?


No, good bass only in RY4S plus mmcx


----------



## jogawag (Aug 28, 2020)

thehientk said:


> RY4S UE better than Yincow x6 for bass ?
> Edifier-H180 FR Graph really good.


I don't have listen to Edifier-H180 yet.
You can try it!



Alex.Grimm said:


> No, good bass only in RY4S plus mmcx



The FR graph of RY4S mmcx plus is very similar to Edifier-H180's, but I don't know why...



#Last but not least, thank you to the authors of FR Graph.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Aug 28, 2020)

thehientk said:


> I just want to ask Yincrow X6 and Yincrow RW-9 are there many differences?


X6 sound almost like Vido only better sound quality, I'd call it Vido small upgrade. RW-9 has better sound quality than X6, but has a slightly tightened high frequencies, better middle and stage. The Yincrow models are higher than rw-9, do not have such good bass, it has an emphasis on the middle and high frequencies.


----------



## Braekfast

So, looks like I'll be going a bit over the budget I originally set for myself. But what else is new, right? Currently in my shopping cart I've got:
For sure:
- NICEHCK ME80 12€
- KBear Marvel 4.5€
Maybe:
- NICEHCK DIY MX500 11€
- NICEHCK Traceless 5€

Since I don't really know exactly what kind of sound signature I'm looking for, I figured I might as well get at least 3, maybe 4 buds at once. I'm just not sure how similar the MX500 and Traceless are to the ME80, maybe they're similar enough that they're superfluous. Maybe I'd be better off grabbing something like the FAAEAL Snow-lotus instead, or some other earbud?


----------



## baskingshark

Braekfast said:


> So, looks like I'll be going a bit over the budget I originally set for myself. But what else is new, right? Currently in my shopping cart I've got:
> For sure:
> - NICEHCK ME80 12€
> - KBear Marvel 4.5€
> ...



I think another way to go down the earbud rabbithole is to get cheap buds of different shapes, as some may not fit well. It doesn't matter if the sound is heavenly but you can't get a good or comfortable fit.

Credit to @WoodyLuvr for this post, u can check out the various different earbud shapes here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3207#post-15645387

NiceHCK M80 and NiceHCK B40 are good starter sets, very bang for buck.


----------



## Braekfast

baskingshark said:


> I think another way to go down the earbud rabbithole is to get cheap buds of different shapes, as some may not fit well. It doesn't matter if the sound is heavenly but you can't get a good or comfortable fit.
> 
> Credit to @WoodyLuvr for this post, u can check out the various different earbud shapes here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3207#post-15645387
> 
> NiceHCK M80 and NiceHCK B40 are good starter sets, very bang for buck.


Thanks for pointing this out. I do have the monk plus which should be an MX500, and those fit me comfortably. So at least I'm sure about that form factor.


----------



## thehientk

Alex.Grimm said:


> No, good bass only in RY4S plus mmcx



This combo ?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

thehientk said:


> This combo ?


I prefer no silver plated cable, its bright for me, I like more copper cable


----------



## thehientk

Alex.Grimm said:


> I prefer no silver plated cable, its bright for me, I like more copper cable


Are silver cable and copper cable different in sound?


----------



## superuser1

I am sad to report that the 2 RY4S I had ordered never turned up and I had to raise a dispute which was resolved immediately with a refund. Sigh, why does India have to be so regressive when it comes to cross border trade.


----------



## baskingshark

superuser1 said:


> I am sad to report that the 2 RY4S I had ordered never turned up and I had to raise a dispute which was resolved immediately with a refund. Sigh, why does India have to be so regressive when it comes to cross border trade.



That's sad! Could be the border dispute between China and India now that resulted in custom issues? It's sad though that the ordinary citizens and shops get drawn into politics and have to suffer for decisions beyond their control.


----------



## thehientk

baskingshark said:


> That's sad! Could be the border dispute between China and India now that resulted in custom issues? It's sad though that the ordinary citizens and shops get drawn into politics and have to suffer for decisions beyond their control.



I live in Vietnam. Everything about e-commerce and shipping is very good from china. I've heard a lot of Indians complain about the same problem.


----------



## superuser1

baskingshark said:


> That's sad! Could be the border dispute between China and India now that resulted in custom issues? It's sad though that the ordinary citizens and shops get drawn into politics and have to suffer for decisions beyond their control.


That is exactly what the main reason is for this trade embargo. I wholeheartedly agree about ordinary citizens being drawn into petty politics being totally unnecessary. Now it's almost next to impossible to get anything from AE as most of the shops have stopped shipping to India. Woe to the condition of the Indian audiophile.


----------



## baskingshark

superuser1 said:


> That is exactly what the main reason is for this trade embargo. I wholeheartedly agree about ordinary citizens being drawn into petty politics being totally unnecessary. Now it's almost next to impossible to get anything from AE as most of the shops have stopped shipping to India. Woe to the condition of the Indian audiophile.



India is so big, do they have their own Indian-FI? Or at least local shops that sell CHIFI?

I remember reading somewhere that some Indian company makes BQEYZ OEMs?


----------



## Sam L (Aug 28, 2020)

Cat Music said:


> Is there anything better than VE Zen 2.0?


I'd love to


jogawag said:


> Yincrow RW-9 has stronger bass than NiceHCK ME80, so I think you can choose Yincrow RW-9.
> ​
> However, since the bass of Yincrow X6 is emphasized more than that of Yincrow RW-9, I think it is better to select Yincrow X6.
> 
> ...


the tricky think about finding a bass-head bud is finding one where the lower end doesn't bleed and overwhelm the mids. I'm thinking that is hard to pull off coherently on an earbud. The me80's aren't bass light, in my opinion.

One thing you can try is double foams. I've only measured a couple different foams, but they have been consistent in affecting the Frequency Response with a gain of +3 to +7db  in the bass region, without appreciably affecting treble.


----------



## fonkepala

Braekfast said:


> So far it seems like the ME80 is the way to go for me then. I did find that code for the earbuds anonymous, thanks for the link by the way. How do those compare to the ME80? I'd assume they're better since even with the code they'd be about twice as expensive, but you never know.



I wouldn't say that the EA buds are better than the ME80. They're just different. More expensive gear don't necessarily sound better than cheaper gear. One of my favorite amp/dac is an obscure one that I got from Ali that has a vintage DAC chip inside for around $20. It has no case and is basically just a bare PCB with a 3.5mm jack, volume pot and exposed chips & transistors. Sometimes I prefer using it compared to my Mojo or iFi Zen DAC. Just goes to show that price isn't everything in this hobby. Anyway, back to the EA buds, going from memory they're more fun-sounding and warmer than the ME80. More V-shaped. The shells are more comfortable and the cable is marginally better than the ME80. If you want fun-sounding, then the EA is for you. If you want a bit more analytical/cold, then ME80. You might like one or the other....or you might not. Try both  For science! 



nxnje said:


> Which is the smallest and cheapest earbud you know around 10$? I listen to EDM and subgenres, but I would just rather pick a comfortable one sacrifying the bass if that's needed. I just want comfort while using them at home when I wanna take a break from IEMs.



To answer your question, for $10 my pick for comfort with good sound would be the B40. Not the best SQ and bass quantity, but they're comfortable. Another one that you should look into if comfort is your main consideration is the Monk Lite (the 120 has better SQ than the 40ohm). The Qian39 also uses the same shell, IIRC.



wskl said:


> Quite surprised to hear that you find the NiceHCK EB2 too big because they are what I consider to be a small shell.  I would suggest that you try the VE Monk Lite or the Qian39.



I second your Monk Lite suggestion (see above reply)



jogawag said:


> if you have enough money(about $80), I recommend you SMABAT ST-10 most...



May I know which version of the ST-10 that you're recommending for $80? I've heard so much about them but am still unmoved/uninspired to get one. Would you say they're better than the Rambo II?



thehientk said:


> Edifier-H180 FR Graph really good.



Graphs can be insightful at times but do keep in mind that FR graphs don't tell you the whole story. They don't give any info on timbre, coloration, etc. Also, as a side note, I didn't like the H180 at all. I found them to be shouty and too tiring to listen to for longer periods. At least the shells were comfy but that's about it. Its sibling the H185, which was much lauded in a local audiophile group, was probably my worst earbud purchase in recent memory. I couldn't sell them off to be rid of them fast enough.



Braekfast said:


> So, looks like I'll be going a bit over the budget I originally set for myself. But what else is new, right? Currently in my shopping cart I've got:
> For sure:
> - NICEHCK ME80 12€
> - KBear Marvel 4.5€
> ...



I'm sorry for your wallet  I haven't tried the DIY MX500 so can't make a sound suggestion there. But the Traceless is probably close/near-identica in SSl to the newly released Marvel, so my suggestion is to get something else instead. The B40 has a different shell and a different enough tuning from the rest. Should be interesting to compare and see which you like more.



thehientk said:


> Are silver cable and copper cable different in sound?



Silver cable is known/touted to be bright sounding. Conversely, copper = warmer. I'm not experienced enough to tell a difference when I use both types, though. And I don't want to open a whole can of worms re: cable effects on SQ, cable rolling, snake oil (or otherwise), etc. One can spend as little or as much as one wants on cables. Ultimately, it's your call. For the most part, I use the cable that came with the gear that I bought with a few exceptions made with regards to comfort, quality and the like.


----------



## superuser1

baskingshark said:


> India is so big, do they have their own Indian-FI? Or at least local shops that sell CHIFI?
> 
> I remember reading somewhere that some Indian company makes BQEYZ OEMs?


Sadly there ain't no Indian-fi  
If at all BQEYZ is made by some company in India (i highly doubt it), they don't sell any in the local market. There is just one online shop where one can get audiophile stuff, including some chi-fi stuff however, the choice is pretty limited and the pricing is a bit on the higher side. AE was the lifeline for people like me for chi-fi buds, iems and cables. That dream run suddenly came crashing down. Amongst the few who deliver to India are Penon, but the downside is Indian customs charges anything between 50% to 100% as duty.


----------



## abhijollyguy

Is K's LBB's still the best choice under the USD50 budget when it comes to balanced sounding earbud?


----------



## Braekfast (Aug 28, 2020)

fonkepala said:


> I wouldn't say that the EA buds are better than the ME80. They're just different. More expensive gear don't necessarily sound better than cheaper gear. One of my favorite amp/dac is an obscure one that I got from Ali that has a vintage DAC chip inside for around $20. It has no case and is basically just a bare PCB with a 3.5mm jack, volume pot and exposed chips & transistors. Sometimes I prefer using it compared to my Mojo or iFi Zen DAC. Just goes to show that price isn't everything in this hobby. Anyway, back to the EA buds, going from memory they're more fun-sounding and warmer than the ME80. More V-shaped. The shells are more comfortable and the cable is marginally better than the ME80. If you want fun-sounding, then the EA is for you. If you want a bit more analytical/cold, then ME80. You might like one or the other....or you might not. Try both  For science!
> 
> I'm sorry for your wallet  I haven't tried the DIY MX500 so can't make a sound suggestion there. But the Traceless is probably close/near-identica in SSl to the newly released Marvel, so my suggestion is to get something else instead. The B40 has a different shell and a different enough tuning from the rest. Should be interesting to compare and see which you like more.



RIP my wallet indeed, I'm already getting the sinking feeling that this is only the beginnning.
So the ME80 and Marvel are in, Traceless and MX500 are out. The B40's sound interesting as well. I like the idea of more fun sounding earbud with the earbuds anonymous, but I'll have to message the penon store on aliexpress if they'll accept this coupon code I snagged off facebook, 44 euro is just a bit steep for me.
I also found the Snow Lotus 1.0 while browsing around here, any idea how they compare to the ME80 and/or the earbuds anonymous? The people who reviewed the snow lotus seemed really positive about it.

These are the last questions, honest. I swear I'll cut the knot soon and actually order something already


----------



## Sam L

jogawag said:


> Yincrow RW-9 has stronger bass than NiceHCK ME80, so I think you can choose Yincrow RW-9.
> ​
> However, since the bass of Yincrow X6 is emphasized more than that of Yincrow RW-9, I think it is better to select Yincrow X6.
> 
> ...



Curious if you took that reading for the me80? If so, might want to calibrate sound card and mic. I saw similar curves until I found a more stable output (for now settled with using a qudelix 5k) and calibrating my USB mic interface, along with using calibrated mic settings.


----------



## Sam L

Braekfast said:


> RIP my wallet indeed, I'm already getting the sinking feeling that this is only the beginnning.
> So the ME80 and Marvel are in, Traceless and MX500 are out. The B40's sound interesting as well. I like the idea of more fun sounding earbud with the earbuds anonymous, but I'll have to message the penon store on aliexpress if they'll accept this coupon code I snagged off facebook, 44 euro is just a bit steep for me.
> I also found the Snow Lotus 1.0 while browsing around here, any idea how they compare to the ME80 and/or the earbuds anonymous? The people who reviewed the snow lotus seemed really positive about it.
> 
> These are the last questions, honest. I swear I'll cut the knot soon and actually order something already



Regarding the Snow Lotus 1.0, make sure it is the commemorative edition. You will be severely disappointed otherwise. I can't find mine at the moment... wondering if one of my kids ran off with it. From memory, they are much warmer than the me80's, bass is more pronounced and slower than the me80. someone mentioned that the me80 are more analytical sounding -- as a comparative term  within the buds space, I agree. They are not clinical sounding compared to clinical sounding iems (ie.re400), but compared to the majority of earbuds out there, the me80's are most definitely on the clinical/analytical side in terms of SQ.


----------



## Sam L

Sam L said:


> Regarding the Snow Lotus 1.0, make sure it is the commemorative edition. You will be severely disappointed otherwise. I can't find mine at the moment... wondering if one of my kids ran off with it. From memory, they are much warmer than the me80's, bass is more pronounced and slower than the me80. someone mentioned that the me80 are more analytical sounding -- as a comparative term  within the buds space, I agree. They are not clinical sounding compared to clinical sounding iems (ie.re400), but compared to the majority of earbuds out there, the me80's are most definitely on the clinical/analytical side in terms of SQ.


oh, and, yes I heartily recommend the Snow Lotus 1.0+ commemorative edition. great earbud for the price.


----------



## vygas (Aug 28, 2020)

Braekfast said:


> RIP my wallet indeed, I'm already getting the sinking feeling that this is only the beginnning.
> So the ME80 and Marvel are in, Traceless and MX500 are out. The B40's sound interesting as well. I like the idea of more fun sounding earbud with the earbuds anonymous, but I'll have to message the penon store on aliexpress if they'll accept this coupon code I snagged off facebook, 44 euro is just a bit steep for me.
> I also found the Snow Lotus 1.0 while browsing around here, any idea how they compare to the ME80 and/or the earbuds anonymous? The people who reviewed the snow lotus seemed really positive about it.
> 
> These are the last questions, honest. I'll swear I'll cut the knot soon and actually order something already



I second the B40, I used to dislike them heavily but I've recently gave them another go and I actually really enjoy listening to them with music from the likes of Duster and some other rock bands, it's definitely something worth giving a go. About the Snow Lotus though, I only have a pair of the 1.0+ Commemorative Edition and they're pretty damn good. I usually bring them everywhere with me since they work with nearly anything I throw at it. Both are something I'd recommend, that is, if your wallet allows for a 1.0+ CE to creep into your cart .


----------



## luckyeights

Is this the snow lotus everyone keeps talking about?

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32966966924.html?spm=a2g0n.productlist.0.0.6f9c1968oQx319


----------



## vygas

luckyeights said:


> Is this the snow lotus everyone keeps talking about?
> 
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32966966924.html?spm=a2g0n.productlist.0.0.6f9c1968oQx319


That's the one.


----------



## Carrow

File under: things you love to see.


----------



## vygas

Also, has anyone else noticed a new variant of the Iris CE on FAAEAL's store recently? It's grey and the store description goes as follows :
>>The White Transparent Shell Edition -Bass, not too much. -Good Mid and high. -Clear vocal.Warmth and detailed. -Rich details -Good Sound field 

>>The Gray Transparent Shell Edition -More balanced -Good Bass, better than white shell. Warmth,immersing and detailed -Good Mid and high. -Clear and warm vocal. -Soundstage: better than white

Here's the link : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001270397403.html


----------



## Braekfast

Sam L said:


> oh, and, yes I heartily recommend the Snow Lotus 1.0+ commemorative edition. great earbud for the price.





vygas said:


> I second the B40, I used to dislike them heavily but I've recently gave them another go and I actually really enjoy listening to them with music from the likes of Duster and some other rock bands, it's definitely something worth giving a go. About the Snow Lotus though, I only have a pair of the 1.0+ Commemorative Edition and they're pretty damn good. I usually bring them everywhere with me since they work with nearly anything I throw at it. Both are something I'd recommend, that is, if your wallet allows for a 1.0+ CE to creep into your cart .


Thanks for the answers. So the commemorative edition's sound is much better/different from the regular version then? 

Currently I've got the ME80, kbear marvel and the snow lotus commemorative edition in my cart. That combo is about on budget, and seems like a pretty good starting order. Maybe I'll get some extra foam covers and a storage case while I'm at it.


----------



## luckyeights

So i have the vido (blue)  apparently the colors have different sound?  And i have the MX500.    Is the snow lotus 1 commemorative better than those?   Also i see a lot of mentions for the nicehck traceless, yincro rw 9 and faaeal Iris.   Out of these which is better?


----------



## luckyeights

Also still curious about the kube plus vs willsound mk2 vs mk32.  Trying to narrow down what i might want to try.


----------



## fonkepala (Aug 28, 2020)

Braekfast said:


> I also found the Snow Lotus 1.0 while browsing around here, any idea how they compare to the ME80 and/or the earbuds anonymous? The people who reviewed the snow lotus seemed really positive about it.



I wrote my impressions of the Snow Lotus 1.0+ CE recently. Not a comparison to the ME80 per se, but it might help. See it here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15824943



vygas said:


> Also, has anyone else noticed a new variant of the Iris CE on FAAEAL's store recently? It's grey and the store description goes as follows :
> >>The White Transparent Shell Edition -Bass, not too much. -Good Mid and high. -Clear vocal.Warmth and detailed. -Rich details -Good Sound field
> 
> >>The Gray Transparent Shell Edition -More balanced -Good Bass, better than white shell. Warmth,immersing and detailed -Good Mid and high. -Clear and warm vocal. -Soundstage: better than white
> ...



Interesting. I thought the Iris CE only came in that clear transparent shell. They make it sound like the gray version has a different driver than the white/clear shell. This might be worth a try, methinks.



Braekfast said:


> Currently I've got the ME80, kbear marvel and the snow lotus commemorative edition in my cart. That combo is about on budget, and seems like a pretty good starting order. Maybe I'll get some extra foam covers and a storage case while I'm at it.



The KBear Marvel is so new no one yet knows what it is really or how it sounds like. It might be a better idea to sit that one out and see how others like them later. Personally, I'd go for the ME80, B40 and SL 1.0+ CE. They sound different enough from each other and have their own unique traits to be worth checking out. Just my 0.02.




luckyeights said:


> So i have the vido (blue)  apparently the colors have different sound?  And i have the MX500.    Is the snow lotus 1 commemorative better than those?   Also i see a lot of mentions for the nicehck traceless, yincro rw 9 and faaeal Iris.   Out of these which is better?



Can confirm the different color Vidos do indeed have different sound signatures. I'm currently listening to the black one after spending some time with the white one. Plan to share my short impressions on the two soon. Also refer here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/yincrow-x6.22393/reviews

As for the SL 1.0+ CE, see my thoughts on it here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15824943

No idea about the RW9. Traceless for me is just ok but nothing to write home about really.The following are my thoughts on the Traceless from FB:

"So a funny thing happened. When I first tried on the Traceless immediately after burn-in, it sounded straight up bad, so much so that I had this overwhelming urge to rip them out of my ears. Everything sounded off, recessed somehow...like I'm sitting in one room while the music was playing in the other room next door. Mids sounded honky too. But....I gave them another shot the day after and this time, strangely enough they sounded alright! Not mind blowingly good or anything close, but sufficiently decent to make listening to my music fun and quite enjoyable. Not sure what happened, if it's brain burn-in or anything of the sort. I even switched DAC's and amps to make sure....sure it sounded better with the Mojo but with everything else it was close. Yup the cable is nothing to write home about but I guess it's to be expected for so little money. Now, I'd rank them to be at least on par with the Vido. Hope this helps."


----------



## Braekfast

fonkepala said:


> I wrote my impressions of the Snow Lotus 1.0+ CE recently. Not a comparison to the ME80 per se, but it might help. See it here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15824943
> 
> The KBear Marvel is so new no one yet knows what it is really or how it sounds like. It might be a better idea to sit that one out and see how others like them later. Personally, I'd go for the ME80, B40 and SL 1.0+ CE. They sound different enough from each other and have their own unique traits to be worth checking out. Just my 0.02.


Actually, I just noticed that the SL 1.0+ CE is 64ohms, and several other reviews I've read here talk about them needing more power than straight from a smartphone to drive well. I'm getting a bit worried that I won't be able to drive them well now. 

If that's the case, I might go for the ME80, B40 and the Kbear Marvel instead. The first two because they're known to be good, the marvel because it might be good. Roll the dice so to say.


----------



## fonkepala (Aug 28, 2020)

Braekfast said:


> If that's the case, I might go for the ME80, B40 and the Kbear Marvel instead. The first two because they're known to be good, the marvel because it might be good. Roll the dice so to say.



Well, you pays your money and you takes your chances


----------



## digititus

luckyeights said:


> So i have the vido (blue)  apparently the colors have different sound?  And i have the MX500.    Is the snow lotus 1 commemorative better than those?   Also i see a lot of mentions for the nicehck traceless, yincro rw 9 and faaeal Iris.   Out of these which is better?


The Yincrow RW9 is a gem. Haven't listen to anything else for quite some time.


----------



## jogawag (Aug 28, 2020)

luckyeights said:


> So i have the vido (blue)  apparently the colors have different sound?  And i have the MX500.    Is the snow lotus 1 commemorative better than those?   Also i see a lot of mentions for the nicehck traceless, yincro rw 9 and faaeal Iris.   Out of these which is better?


I used to have vido, snow lotus 1 ce, nicehck traceless, yincro rw 9. I didn't have faaeal Iris.  But I recommend you yincro rw 9 as the best choice.
(nicehck traceless is almost vido, they have the same driver(speaker). )



luckyeights said:


> Also still curious about the kube plus vs willsound mk2 vs mk32.  Trying to narrow down what i might want to try.


I used to have only willsound mk2. And willsound mk2 has gotten the firm reputation of good sound (specially bass) in almost members of this thread.

And did you check the price of them?
https://www.rholupat.com/willsound-buds?page=1

Almost of them are too good prices.

So as first, I recommend you below.
https://www.rholupat.com/willsound-buds/willsound-mk2-nv.html
https://www.rholupat.com/willsound-buds/willsound-mk2-nv1.html

Or you don't have MMCX earbuds yet,  I recommend you below (by waiting to be stocked).
You can arrange the sound of earbuds by changing MMCX cable.
https://www.rholupat.com/willsound-buds/willsound-mk2-mmcx-bk.html
https://www.rholupat.com/willsound-buds/willsound-mk2-mmcx-wh.html

And if you must know about willsound mk32 and KubePlus, you must ask to  @Alex.Grimm.
https://www.rholupat.com/indonesian-buds/kubeplus-orange.html
https://www.rholupat.com/indonesian-buds/kubeplus-black.html


----------



## Braekfast

fonkepala said:


> Well, you pays your money and you takes your chances


Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the SL CE is the safer choice compared to the Marvel, and it will probably be better sounding. But that is probably only true if I can drive it well, which I'm not sure my phone will be able to do. It's a redmi note 8t, if that says anything.

Of course, I could just get all four of them... Brb, I think I can hear my wallet screaming downstairs.


----------



## vygas

Braekfast said:


> Actually, I just noticed that the SL 1.0+ CE is 64ohms, and several other reviews I've read here talk about them needing more power than straight from a smartphone to drive well. I'm getting a bit worried that I won't be able to drive them well now.
> 
> If that's the case, I might go for the ME80, B40 and the Kbear Marvel instead. The first two because they're known to be good, the marvel because it might be good. Roll the dice so to say.


That's fair enough, I didn't really take that into account but once you do get a slightly more powerful source, go for 'em.


----------



## fonkepala

Braekfast said:


> Of course, I could just get all four of them... Brb, I think I can hear my wallet screaming downstairs.



My wallet is now merely a shadow of its former self...


----------



## Braekfast

fonkepala said:


> My wallet is now merely a shadow of its former self...


I ended up with the ME80, B40 and Marvel combo. Figured I might give my wallet some reprieve and wait with the SL CE until I get a better source and/or I inevitably start wanting something new after playing around with those three. Though in my rush to buy them I did screw up a bit and ended up ordering the ME80 from VS Audio Store instead of the NiceHCK store on aliexpress, d'oh. Hopefully that won't be problem.

Thanks for all the help and recommendations everyone, I appreciate it. Now I'm going to attempt to stay away from this thread until my buds arrive, lest I be tempted into ordering others in the meantime.


----------



## SciOC

Sam L said:


> Brief sharing of my morning listening....
> 
> I finally got around to opening up a bunch of aliexpress iems and buds that finally came in (mostly sub $20 items). I spent most of last night reading for a few hours, listening to music through my me80's.
> 
> ...


Good to know.  I don't own any buds but just ordered the me80....

And well, ummm, also the smabat st10s gold/black as well.  So hopefully I like buds!  It's weird to me that I paid $100 on sale for what is considered a pretty high end bud in the st10s.  $100 IEMs are still in the budget arena IMO.


----------



## Sam L

digititus said:


> The Yincrow RW9 is a gem. Haven't listen to anything else for quite some time.


Fully agree. Finally got to it today. I know I've been touting the me80 the last couple days, but the RW9 is at worst just as good and, in all likelihood, better. I need more time with it. Problem is too many buds and iems, so I'm not sure that will happen any time soon.


----------



## Sam L

SciOC said:


> Good to know.  I don't own any buds but just ordered the me80....
> 
> And well, ummm, also the smabat st10s gold/black as well.  So hopefully I like buds!  It's weird to me that I paid $100 on sale for what is considered a pretty high end bud in the st10s.  $100 IEMs are still in the budget arena IMO.


lol. That is the immediate learning curve we all went through -- how the earbud pricepoints are vastly different from the iem world. My current feel for the bud market is as follows:

serious bang for the buck. Buds <$5 (ie. fengru emx500). IEMs $15 to $40 range
awesome value, 83% of endgame. Buds = $12-$20 (rw9, me80, monk lite 120ohm). IEMs = $60 to $100 (it00, isn d02)
near endgame, 90% there. Buds = $65 to $120 (isn rambo 2, smabat s10s). IEMs = $300 to $500 (lz a6, h40, aq7, etc)
endgame. Buds = $300ish. IEMs = >1k

This is not to say that the buds in these categories are equivalent in sound to their IEM counterparts -- no way to compare as it's apples to oranges.


----------



## assassin10000

SciOC said:


> Good to know.  I don't own any buds but just ordered the me80....
> 
> And well, ummm, also the smabat st10s gold/black as well.  So hopefully I like buds!  It's weird to me that I paid $100 on sale for what is considered a pretty high end bud in the st10s.  $100 IEMs are still in the budget arena IMO.



Yep. Different ballpark as they say. Buds are much cheaper to produce.

TOTL earbuds seem to be (retail/no sale) $150+
The higher end I think is about 5-600? 


Buds are much more analogue sounding (more speaker like) than IEMs, especially compared to BA sets. If you like soundstage, sometimes warmth and (usually) good timbre you should be pleasantly surprised. Also good for awareness of your surroundings.


----------



## waynes world

Sam L said:


> Fully agree. Finally got to it today. I know I've been touting the me80 the last couple days, but the RW9 is at worst just as good and, in all likelihood, better. I need more time with it. Problem is too many buds and iems, so I'm not sure that will happen any time soon.



Yup. RW9 is great.


----------



## Sam L

Here are the various budget buds you guys have all turned me to. My wallet hates all of you. 
Can't find my Snow Lotus 1.0+ commemorative and still have a handful coming in but I think I'm settled in getting a feel for the quality we have come to expect on the cheap. Buds are currently preferred over IEMs for me, particularly as I've not been in the office in a long while and have no need to tune out my train commute with ANC headphones or well isolating IEMs.




My top 3 of this bunch:
1. Yincrow RW9
2. Monk Lite 120 ohm
3. Nicehck ME80


----------



## RikudouGoku

What are some good looking buds?

I feel like most buds are quite plain and boring, unlike iems where there are variations that will suit everyone.


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> What are some good looking buds?
> 
> I feel like most buds are quite plain and boring, unlike iems where there are variations that will suit everyone.



Haha for me buds have poor isolation so I 99% of the time use them at home, so I don't really care how they look TBH, as long as they sound and fit good.

The Kinera Freya up here looks beautiful but it hasn't the best reviews for sound TBH. I'd take a crap looking audio gear any day that sounds good, over something that is pretty but sounds crap, but different strokes for different folks I guess.

The only thing about buds looking similar to one another is that sometimes I mix them up when listening to them at night in the dark to some chill jazz. I take out the wrong one and realize eh why is the volume so soft, ah this is the 300 ohm RY4S, not the 32 ohm one LOL.


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> What are some good looking buds?
> 
> I feel like most buds are quite plain and boring, unlike iems where there are variations that will suit everyone.


Don't know if we'll see that kind of aesthetic attention until some sort of renaissance happens, along with it some serious innovation.


----------



## Sam L

baskingshark said:


> Haha for me buds have poor isolation so I 99% of the time use them at home, so I don't really care how they look TBH, as long as they sound and fit good.
> 
> The Kinera Freya up here looks beautiful but it hasn't the best reviews for sound TBH. I'd take a crap looking audio gear any day that sounds good, over something that is pretty but sounds crap, but different strokes for different folks I guess.
> 
> The only thing about buds looking similar to one another is that sometimes I mix them up when listening to them at night in the dark to some chill jazz. I take out the wrong one and realize eh why is the volume so soft, ah this is the 300 ohm RY4S, not the 32 ohm one LOL.


Ahaha. Had to laugh at the mix up in the dark. Had that happen to me a couple times.


----------



## SciOC

Sam L said:


> Here are the various budget buds you guys have all turned me to. My wallet hates all of you.
> Can't find my Snow Lotus 1.0+ commemorative and still have a handful coming in but I think I'm settled in getting a feel for the quality we have come to expect on the cheap. Buds are currently preferred over IEMs for me, particularly as I've not been in the office in a long while and have no need to tune out my train commute with ANC headphones or well isolating IEMs.
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, my time is now spent in my home office and I need situational awareness for my kids and emergencies and stuff.  At the office part of my love of IEMs is noise suppression from annoying coworkers and my ability to listen LOUD without bothering anyone, and I couldn't care less about emergencies (I definitely know I'm screwed if there were ever a workplace shooter!)

This is the primary reason I'm wading into buds.  My IEMs are too isolating, my speakers are too loud for everyone else at an acceptable volume for me.  Hopefully buds get me more listening time because honestly I'm actually missing my office because I got so much more listening time there.  

If I'd known good buds were dirt cheap I'd have added one or two onto an Ali order ages ago.  

To be frank, I'm still sceptical....  But I'm hopeful!


----------



## Sam L

SciOC said:


> Yeah, my time is now spent in my home office and I need situational awareness for my kids and emergencies and stuff.  At the office part of my love of IEMs is noise suppression from annoying coworkers and my ability to listen LOUD without bothering anyone, and I couldn't care less about emergencies (I definitely know I'm screwed if there were ever a workplace shooter!)
> 
> This is the primary reason I'm wading into buds.  My IEMs are too isolating, my speakers are too loud for everyone else at an acceptable volume for me.  Hopefully buds get me more listening time because honestly I'm actually missing my office because I got so much more listening time there.
> 
> ...


Wow, my intro to buds is basically identical to yours. Since the lock down, I've been typically in my basement and with my iems I'm unable to hear any of my kids or wife tell me anything down the stairs. I still miss things when the music is louder but not like when I'm enjoying my er2xr's. 

I think the only thing to impress is that the overall all sound profile is very different from iems. I think the variance is easily as distinctive as switching from headphones to iems, perhaps even more of a difference between iems and buds. 

One result of this is my understanding and anticipation as to what looks promising by FR curve has been completely invalidated from my familiarity with iem curves. 

The difference between thevHarman headphone target and iem target are fundamentally similar. If there were ever a harman earbud target, I am convinced it would look substantially different.


----------



## thehientk (Aug 28, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Here are the various budget buds you guys have all turned me to. My wallet hates all of you.
> Can't find my Snow Lotus 1.0+ commemorative and still have a handful coming in but I think I'm settled in getting a feel for the quality we have come to expect on the cheap. Buds are currently preferred over IEMs for me, particularly as I've not been in the office in a long while and have no need to tune out my train commute with ANC headphones or well isolating IEMs.
> 
> 
> ...



Can you rw9 and me80 compare ?
I am having interest with mmcx earbud, you can give suggestions on aliexpress.


----------



## baskingshark

thehientk said:


> I am having interest with mmcx earbud, you can give suggestions on aliexpress.



For MMCX earbuds, check out, from cheapest to priciest I've owned:
1) *RY4S Plus 32 ohm* - V shaped, bassy, upper mids occasionally hot. Bass has midbass bleed but this adds to warmth in lower mids. Cheap
2) *RY4S 300 ohm* - big brother of the above 32 ohm plus set. U shaped, better technicalities. Bass is less in quantity and subass extension but it has tighter bass with no midbass bleed. Not as hot in upper mids. Needs amping due to the 300 ohm impedance.
3) *BK2 *- neutralish bright. Good timbre and technicalities. A bit bass lite. Good build. Soundstage a bit compressed.
4) *SMABAT M2 Pro* - midfi sound quality, has interchangable tuning modules +/- drivers. Good timbre, can change sound from V shaped to neutralish bright. So essentially it is buying more than one earbud with this purchase since u can change the sound signature on the go.
5) *SMABAT ST10* (original non S) - neutralish with subbass boost. Has good subbass extension/quantity for a bud. Cooler tonality and timbre not as great as some earbuds, but it has excellent technicalities.


----------



## rprodrigues

Sam L said:


> My top 3 of this bunch:
> 1. Yincrow RW9
> 2. Monk Lite 120 ohm
> 3. Nicehck ME80



Would you say the Monk Lite is worth the extra cash compared to the ME80?


----------



## assassin10000

Sam L said:


> One result of this is my understanding and anticipation as to what looks promising by FR curve has been completely invalidated from my familiarity with iem curves.
> 
> The difference between thevHarman headphone target and iem target are fundamentally similar. If there were ever a harman earbud target, I am convinced it would look substantially different.



I think thats mostly down to there not being a standard measurement setup for earbuds. Unlike IEMs and headphones. Plus earbuds are much harder to get a consistent measurement from vs IEM/headphones.

I've been tinkering with a couple setups that seem to work decent and provide a measurement more similar to what you're used to seeing than the massively boosted bass/lower mids on a lot of other earbud measurements.


----------



## Sam L (Aug 28, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> Would you say the Monk Lite is worth the extra cash compared to the ME80?


In short, yes. Only because I think the difference is like $7-8 usd?

If I had to pick one, and only one, between the me80 and monk lite 120, I would go with the me80. Mainly because they are easier to drive and has a more familiar sound profile to iem users.

If someone were coming from headphone use, I'd recommend skipping the me80 and going with the monks because a headphone user will have no issues driving the monks and they are also used to a warmer sound profile compared to iem uses. The soundstage is way more engaging on the monks too. Something a headphone user can appreciate.

A couple things I've noticed with the monks. 1. They can sound a tad veiled in the upper mids and lower treble, not unlike the sennheiser veil. 2. The monks eq really well, so fine tuning sound is not an issue.

One more notable difference is the me80 sounds more analytical compared to the monks.


----------



## Sam L

thehientk said:


> Can you rw9 and me80 compare ?
> I am having interest with mmcx earbud, you can give suggestions on aliexpress.


This might sound kind of funny but I really do not like the cable on the me80. It's very resistent to tortion, which some people might like. I do not. I much prefer the braided cable on the rw9. It's very similar to the blue wire used for the old UE iems.

Let me AB the two for details on sound but at first listen, the rw9 are more impressive.


----------



## thehientk

Sam L said:


> This might sound kind of funny but *I really do not like the cable on the me80*. It's very resistent to tortion, which some people might like. I do not. I much prefer the braided cable on the rw9. It's very similar to the blue wire used for the old UE iems.
> 
> Let me AB the two for details on sound but at first listen, the rw9 are more impressive.



bold... me too. 
The ME80 cable is beautiful, durable, but it's actually not elastic and flexible, it's curled up and bent.


----------



## SciOC

Sam L said:


> Wow, my intro to buds is basically identical to yours. Since the lock down, I've been typically in my basement and with my iems I'm unable to hear any of my kids or wife tell me anything down the stairs. I still miss things when the music is louder but not like when I'm enjoying my er2xr's.
> 
> I think the only thing to impress is that the overall all sound profile is very different from iems. I think the variance is easily as distinctive as switching from headphones to iems, perhaps even more of a difference between iems and buds.
> 
> ...


Ha, I am even in the basement too, and at home until at least January due to COVID.  Honestly starting to go insane from lack of listening time.  Hoping buds are the cure.  I really don't care for any over the ear sets I own in comparison to even my cheaper IEMs.

It they aren't, hey, at least I only dropped about $130 total, cables and all.  My speakers I bought were $300, hopefully I get use out of them at some point.


----------



## feverfive

I'm kinda looking at the *Smabat ST-10* (40 ohm because I only own portable gear these days, so not interested in difficult-to-drive stuff). LMAO...going from considering cheap <$20 buds to now looking at ~$100 sets, convincing myself that it's still cheap because "well, you know you'd spend 7x that on a pair of IEMs" as if that's some sort of justification, hahahaha. The only earbids I've ever tried are the old school Apple ones. This hobby man...


----------



## Sam L

feverfive said:


> I'm kinda looking at the *Smabat ST-10* (40 ohm because I only own portable gear these days, so not interested in difficult-to-drive stuff). LMAO...going from considering cheap <$20 buds to now looking at ~$100 sets, convincing myself that it's still cheap because "well, you know you'd spend 7x that on a pair of IEMs" as if that's some sort of justification, hahahaha. The only earbids I've ever tried are the old school Apple ones. This hobby man...


What kind of sound profile you looking for? What are some of your favorite iems?


----------



## Pictograms (Aug 29, 2020)

My Fiio EM5 came in yesterday and I am very impressed wothought foams(of which they give you 3 types) it is neutral with deep precise bass.
definanetly competitive with my Ks Bell-ti and the VE Sun-copper
I haven’t had a chance to try foams yet but the fit is nice, not quite as comfy as the Bell-ti but very close.


----------



## baskingshark

feverfive said:


> I'm kinda looking at the *Smabat ST-10* (40 ohm because I only own portable gear these days, so not interested in difficult-to-drive stuff). LMAO...going from considering cheap <$20 buds to now looking at ~$100 sets, convincing myself that it's still cheap because "well, you know you'd spend 7x that on a pair of IEMs" as if that's some sort of justification, hahahaha. The only earbids I've ever tried are the old school Apple ones. This hobby man...



SMABAT ST10 is a very good set, it is the priciest earbud I've bought so far, but I'm not sure if their successors the SMABAT ST10S black gold/silver are better, haven't heard them, so maybe you might wanna ask the rest if it is worth the slight extra outlay for these successors.

Prior to the ST10, I was playing at the $20 - 30ish region with earbuds such as BK2, HE150 Pro, FAAEAL Datura Pro and RY4S 300 ohm. As per diminishing returns in this hobby, the ST10 is not like 2 - 3 x better than the above $20 gear, but the ST10 is definitely in the midfi league in terms of better technicalities. What also sets it apart from most other earbuds is the excellent subbass extension and quantity, very rare in most earbuds. It can be worn cable down or cable up too. It scales better with amping too.

One thing I didn't like that much about the ST10 was its colder tonality and poorer timbre compared to some of the $20ish buds above.


----------



## jogawag

baskingshark said:


> One thing I didn't like that much about the ST10 was its colder tonality and poorer timbre compared to some of the $20ish buds above.


You may have already tried, but I've improved ST10's cold tonality and poorer timbre by using a cheap MMCX OFC cable under $10.
I feel this has improved the mids in particular.


----------



## jogawag

fonkepala said:


> May I know which version of the ST-10 that you're recommending for $80? I've heard so much about them but am still unmoved/uninspired to get one. Would you say they're better than the Rambo II?



Sorry, I forgot the reply.

First, I don't know about he Rambo II.

The ST-10 version I recommend for $80 is the first green version. This is because I want to use earbuds on smartphones, so I avoid high impedance ones.
I am satisfied with this ST-10 using an OFC cable of less than $10.

I wanted to show you a $80 ST-10 page in a banned store, but now it's gone up to $99.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

baskingshark said:


> One thing I didn't like that much about the ST10 was its colder tonality and poorer timbre compared to some of the $20ish buds above.


For this reason, I sold all my Smabat's, I don't like the cold middle. If someone likes this sound, gold will be the best option, then green, and the last silver.


----------



## jogawag (Aug 29, 2020)

Alex.Grimm said:


> For this reason, I sold all my Smabat's, I don't like the cold middle. If someone likes this sound, gold will be the best option, then green, and the last silver.


Did you try recable?
I have the custom to try recable every MMCX earbuds, because I think that there is possibility that another cable may be more matched to the earbuds for me.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

jogawag said:


> Did you try recable?


I try other mmcx cables


----------



## Slater

thehientk said:


> bold... me too.
> The ME80 cable is beautiful, durable, but it's actually not elastic and flexible, it's curled up and bent.



Mine straightened out after a few days. You can also try gently heating it with a hair dryer, which should do the trick.


----------



## gundam37

Sam L said:


> What are you using as a source by the way. Synergy can affect PRaT noticeably. Also, I think the zen 2's are 300ohm? That will take some power to drive.
> 
> You might want to take a look at the 120 ohm monk lites. One of the best you can get and only $20.



Hi, sorry for the late reply. Was busy with work and the kids.
Ya, was thinking of getting of E1DA 9039s or Fiio BTR5 to drive the Zen 2.
Thanks for the heads up on the 120 ohm Monk lites, will take a look.
Btw, have you ordered anything from Venture Electronics lately? How is their response ? Thanks.


----------



## gundam37

Sam L said:


> Ah... Actually he means PRaT as an acronym for Pace Rhythm and Timing, a term borrowed from old school speaker enthusiasts. For headfiers it has come to identify quality of sound along the lines of musicality, but with a more visceral bias.


Ya @Sam L , you got it right


----------



## gundam37

Sam L said:


> Fully agree. Finally got to it today. I know I've been touting the me80 the last couple days, but the RW9 is at worst just as good and, in all likelihood, better. I need more time with it. Problem is too many buds and iems, so I'm not sure that will happen any time soon.


Hi @Sam L , care to share your views of the RW9 in terms of PRAT ?


----------



## gundam37

waynes world said:


> Yup. RW9 is great.


Hi @waynes world , how would you rate the RW9 in terms of PRAT (Pace Rhythm and Timing) compared to the VE ZEN. I know it's a different price range but just keeping my options open


----------



## fonkepala

gundam37 said:


> Hi, sorry for the late reply. Was busy with work and the kids.
> Ya, was thinking of getting of E1DA 9039s or Fiio BTR5 to drive the Zen 2.
> Thanks for the heads up on the 120 ohm Monk lites, will take a look.
> Btw, have you ordered anything from Venture Electronics lately? How is their response ? Thanks.



I'd really recommend you take a look at the Qudelix 5k instead of the BTR5. I'm very very happy with mine. Previously, I was considering the BTR5 as well but now I'm really glad I went with the Qudelix. The companion app is nice, the devs are really responsive, the size is just right (read:tiny), SQ is great and what probably matters most is the EQ (both graphic and parametric). It's able to apply parametric EQ settings over LDAC. I didn't use EQ at all prior to this, but with the Qudelix's excellent implementation of it, I find that the earbuds I didn't much care for before, are now able to sing.

www.qudelix.com


----------



## gundam37

fonkepala said:


> I'd really recommend you take a look at the Qudelix 5k instead of the BTR5. I'm very very happy with mine. Previously, I was considering the BTR5 as well but now I'm really glad I went with the Qudelix. The companion app is nice, the devs are really responsive, the size is just right (read:tiny), SQ is great and what probably matters most is the EQ (both graphic and parametric). It's able to apply parametric EQ settings over LDAC. I didn't use EQ at all prior to this, but with the Qudelix's excellent implementation of it, I find that the earbuds I didn't much care for before, are now able to sing.
> 
> www.qudelix.com


Thanks for the recommendation. Will look into the Qudelix 5k.
So far for earbuds, the list under consideration is as follows:
1. VE ZEN 2
2. VE Monk Lite 120 ohm
3. Smabat st-10
4. Yincrow rw9
I know, the price range is quite wide. Anyone can give some feedback on how are they in terms of PRAT compared to each other ? Or any other recommendations. Much appreciated.


----------



## fonkepala

Braekfast said:


> Thanks for all the help and recommendations everyone, I appreciate it. Now I'm going to attempt to stay away from this thread until my buds arrive, lest I be tempted into ordering others in the meantime.



Considering how long shipping stuff from Aliexpress usually takes, I bet you'll be back here soon enough  And maybe buy a couple of other buds while you wait for the ME80, B40 & Marvel. You know, to tide you over 



SciOC said:


> Good to know.  I don't own any buds but just ordered the me80....
> 
> And well, ummm, also the smabat st10s gold/black as well.  So hopefully I like buds!  It's weird to me that I paid $100 on sale for what is considered a pretty high end bud in the st10s.  $100 IEMs are still in the budget arena IMO.



Welcome to the rabbit hole! And grats on the ST10s gold/black as well. 



Sam L said:


> Fully agree. Finally got to it today. I know I've been touting the me80 the last couple days, but the RW9 is at worst just as good and, in all likelihood, better.





waynes world said:


> Yup. RW9 is great.



Wow, this makes me want to have a go at the RW9. They're even priced almost identically on the local online shopping site that I use. Looking forward to your A-B between the ME80 & RW9.



SciOC said:


> Yeah, my time is now spent in my home office and I need situational awareness for my kids and emergencies and stuff.  At the office part of my love of IEMs is noise suppression from annoying coworkers and my ability to listen LOUD without bothering anyone, and I couldn't care less about emergencies (I definitely know I'm screwed if there were ever a workplace shooter!)
> 
> This is the primary reason I'm wading into buds.  My IEMs are too isolating, my speakers are too loud for everyone else at an acceptable volume for me.  Hopefully buds get me more listening time because honestly I'm actually missing my office because I got so much more listening time there.
> 
> ...



That 'workplace shooter' quip made me laugh & shiver all at the same time :\ Anyway, my speakers and headphones are getting less and less airtime (eartime?) too these days. I love how my speakers sound, and still use them from time to time when I want to give my ear conchae a break. Occasionally I want to recall what headphones I have so I pull them down from the shelf and maybe have a listen. Apart from that, it's earbuds all day err day.



Sam L said:


> In short, yes. Only because I think the difference is like $7-8 usd?
> 
> If I had to pick one, and only one, between the me80 and monk lite 120, I would go with the me80. Mainly because they are easier to drive and has a more familiar sound profile to iem users.
> 
> ...



Agreed on all fronts.



Sam L said:


> This might sound kind of funny but I really do not like the cable on the me80. It's very resistent to tortion, which some people might like. I do not. I much prefer the braided cable on the rw9. It's very similar to the blue wire used for the old UE iems.
> 
> Let me AB the two for details on sound but at first listen, the rw9 are more impressive.



Yup, this is true for me as well. I did mention it in my short impression/review of the ME80 several pages back. The cable is the most glaring shortcoming of the ME80.



jogawag said:


> Sorry, I forgot the reply.
> 
> First, I don't know about he Rambo II.
> 
> ...



Ok, thank you for your input. Do you have any thoughts on the ST-10S?



Slater said:


> Mine straightened out after a few days. You can also try gently heating it with a hair dryer, which should do the trick.



I simply pin them down under a pile of heavy books for a couple of days. Takes longer but works. Although I have to be careful to not forget that they're there


----------



## Sam L

Pictograms said:


> My Fiio EM5 came in yesterday and I am very impressed wothought foams(of which they give you 3 types) it is neutral with deep precise bass.
> definanetly competitive with my Ks Bell-ti and the VE Sun-copper
> I haven’t had a chance to try foams yet but the fit is nice, not quite as comfy as the Bell-ti but very close.


Please continue sharing what you observer with the em5. I'm sure many of us are super interested. I can only choose one - either the em5 or the audiosense aq7. I'm still undecided.


----------



## jeejack

Until ME80 arrives I will continue to enjoy RY4S plus. I like them very much. They are much better than Vido


----------



## jogawag (Aug 29, 2020)

I have got 2 docomo earbuds MMCXed by @assassin10000. I am only one person who has black and white MMCXed docomo earbuds in the world.(really???)

@assassin10000 is a great earbuds engineer.
I'm very satisfied with everything about MMCXed docomo earbuds outlook and sound.

The docomo earbuds with the single crystal copper MMCX balanced cabel sounds like clearer balanced Shozy BK.
The docomo earbuds with the silver coating copper MMCX cabel sounds like Shozy Cygnus.

A pic with the single crystal copper MMCX balanced cabel and silver coating copper MMCX cable connected.


----------



## Pictograms

Sam L said:


> Please continue sharing what you observer with the em5. I'm sure many of us are super interested. I can only choose one - either the em5 or the audiosense aq7. I'm still undecided.


I’ll try to get around to testing out the foams, but for me the EM5 is the best naked earbud I have used, the Bell-ti is really comfy with no foam but I find its highs piercing. 
It’s making it hard for me to want to test out the foams on the EM5, the shell is soooooo smooth no seam to irritate my ears like on the VE buds or shozy bk


----------



## mochill

Pictograms said:


> I’ll try to get around to testing out the foams, but for me the EM5 is the best naked earbud I have used, the Bell-ti is really comfy with no foam but I find its highs piercing.
> It’s making it hard for me to want to test out the foams on the EM5, the shell is soooooo smooth no seam to irritate my ears like on the VE buds or shozy bk


More impression will be awesome whenever you can ☺️


----------



## Sam L

Alex.Grimm said:


> For this reason, I sold all my Smabat's, I don't like the cold middle. If someone likes this sound, gold will be the best option, then green, and the last silver.


I haven't listened to the older S10 but I would still descibe the mids on the s10s as still being a bit on the cooler side. 



Pictograms said:


> I’ll try to get around to testing out the foams, but for me the EM5 is the best naked earbud I have used, the Bell-ti is really comfy with no foam but I find its highs piercing.
> It’s making it hard for me to want to test out the foams on the EM5, the shell is soooooo smooth no seam to irritate my ears like on the VE buds or shozy bk


Interesting. I'll have to hunt down the exact dimensions of the em5. I'm curious if I can wear them without foams as well.

I have a couple packs of different foams coming in from aliexpress, but from what I've seen from the 4 or 5 variants I've tested so far, foams only affect the 800hz to 10khz range minimally (on the order of  .5-1.25db). Sub bass, bass, lower mids are affected more significantly by +3 to +9db.


----------



## rprodrigues

jeejack said:


> Until ME80 arrives I will continue to enjoy RY4S plus. I like them very much. They are much better than Vido



Is that the stock cable for Tin T2?


----------



## SciOC

So I have my Ali order in and probably will add the yincrow rw9 too.  

Is there anything with getting from Amazon in the states that I could have in 2 days?  Going to be an awful long wait for my Ali orders.....  Aside from having all the smabats (mostly for much much more expensive) I'm not seeing lot of the main stuff talked about in here, only random edifiers, betrons and other ones that don't even have names on Amazon.

Any decent finds out there with prime shipping or at least that ship from the US?


----------



## Sam L

SciOC said:


> So I have my Ali order in and probably will add the yincrow rw9 too.
> 
> Is there anything with getting from Amazon in the states that I could have in 2 days?  Going to be an awful long wait for my Ali orders.....  Aside from having all the smabats (mostly for much much more expensive) I'm not seeing lot of the main stuff talked about in here, only random edifiers, betrons and other ones that don't even have names on Amazon.
> 
> Any decent finds out there with prime shipping or at least that ship from the US?


https://www.amazon.com/FAAEAL-Headp...=snow+lotus+1.0+earbuds&qid=1598769029&sr=8-2


----------



## jeejack

rprodrigues said:


> Is that the stock cable for Tin T2?


Yes


----------



## fonkepala

jogawag said:


> I have got 2 docomo earbuds MMCXed by @assassin10000. I am only one person who has black and white MMCXed docomo earbuds in the world.(really???)
> 
> @assassin10000 is a great earbuds engineer.
> I'm very satisfied with everything about MMCXed docomo earbuds outlook and sound.
> ...



I really like the SS of the black Docomo, but the stock cable is crap. So I got it MMCX-modded, not exactly like what is shown in your photos but pretty close. Afterwards, I wasn't able to get them to seat properly in my ears. They have very long stems to begin with and with the length of the MMCX connectors added in, it became very unwieldy. Previously the long stem kinda sat nicely against my cheek and helped to keep the earbuds secure in my ear, but now with the MMCX connector they just feel like they're flopping around. I sometimes feel like I'm wearing earrings. Pity it detracted from my enjoyment of them, as they sound good IMHO.


----------



## fonkepala (Aug 30, 2020)

Nobody asked for this, but just wanted to share my impressions of the white Vido:
	- Extremely warm, borderline dark. 
	- This thing sounds thicc, bloomy. Bass is neither precise nor fast, just decent. It is punchy, but what is there sounds loose.
	- Too much emphasis in the bass region & lower mids? Kinda muddy-sounding listening to Glitch Mob & Alesso. Doesn't fare well with electronic music? However, it does sound alright with synthwave and chillwave (Makeup And Vanity Set & Asthenic's playlist on Youtube Music). Probably due to the lo-fi overall feel of synthwave & chillwave.
	- Vocals sound good and better than expected, not honky or anything (Johnnyswim, Ella Fitzgerald, Pearl Jam, Little Big Town, The Strokes & Better Than Ezra). Clearly the white Vido's strongest characteristic. But the vocals sometimes sound further away and not that engaging or upfront. Celtic string instruments and most other instruments sound as they should. Upper mids may be lacking due to percussive instruments not having that 'bite' and strong attack (Florence + The Machine).
	- Treble is recessed. Far from detailed. 
	- In spite of all the above, the white Vido somehow manages to sound lively and musical with good energy and presence throughout. I found myself bopping my head to the tunes on more than one occasion. 'Awake' by Tycho is a case in point.
	- Soundstage is so-so and nothing to write home about. Rather closed up.
	- Build quality is like any other Vido. Perfectly fine for the price. 
	- I prefer the blue Vido & red Vido more. But for a buck and change, I can't think of a better alternative.
	- Get it if you prioritize vocals over everything else or if you want to have ALL THE VIDOS  

With the Mojo:
	- Improves the soundstage perceptibly and gives a clearer sense of separation & imaging. I perceive more energy too.

With the iFi Zen DAC:
	- Pairing sounds too laid back for my liking. Improves when PowerMatch is enabled.

In contrast, the black Vido is more balanced and sounds closer to my preferred SS. Vocals on the black Vido is just as nice as on the white. Bass is less in quantity but is more refined. No longer bloomy or thick sounding as the white. Mids are more apparent on the black. Things sound more detailed. However, I'm perceiving a significant channel imbalance in my pair of black Vido, so I've decided to stop listening and will get another pair to replace this one. But from what I can tell from my limited time with the pair I have, I like what I'm hearing. Should do well with some EQ in the subbass region and lower mids.

Again, for a buck and change, can't be beat.


----------



## SciOC

Sam L said:


> https://www.amazon.com/FAAEAL-Headp...=snow+lotus+1.0+earbuds&qid=1598769029&sr=8-2


Thanks, ordered.  The VE monk plus it's also available for $10 with prime shipping, worth getting too?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01J0S4AAS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_p55sFbRN3AW1Q


----------



## Sam L

SciOC said:


> Thanks, ordered.  The VE monk plus it's also available for $10 with prime shipping, worth getting too?
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01J0S4AAS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_p55sFbRN3AW1Q


No, not with the stuff you have coming in.


----------



## ValSilva

jogawag said:


> You can also enjoy re-cable with RY4S MMCX PLUS.
> It is the second, fourth, sixth, eighth and ninth options on the following pages.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html


I have the sixth option. I really love it ❤️


----------



## ValSilva

ValSilva said:


> I have the sixth option. I really love it ❤


----------



## jogawag

ValSilva said:


>



The materials of cables for my two RY4S MMCX PLUS (silver of 8th and blue of 4th) are cheap Single Crystal Copper and cheap Oxygen Free Copper.
What is the material of the cable in your photo?


----------



## ValSilva

jogawag said:


> The materials of cables for my two RY4S MMCX PLUS (silver of 8th and blue of 4th) are cheap Single Crystal Copper and cheap Oxygen Free Copper.
> What is the material of the cable in your photo?


This is a simple NiceHCK 8-Core Copper Silver Mixed Cable - 4.4mm (to Ibasso DX160):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32859444405.html
Nothing fancy


----------



## jogawag

ValSilva said:


> This is a simple NiceHCK 8-Core Copper Silver Mixed Cable - 4.4mm (to Ibasso DX160):
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32859444405.html
> Nothing fancy


What is the sound trend of your Copper Silver Mixed Cable?
And what about the slightly bright treble of RY4S with your Copper Silver Mixed Cable?


----------



## ValSilva (Aug 31, 2020)

jogawag said:


> What is the sound trend of your Copper Silver Mixed Cable?
> And what about the slightly bright treble of RY4S with your Copper Silver Mixed Cable?


I'm not good on describing sound, but I think it got good treble not bright with micro details and decent bass. I also don't think it is V shaped, cause the voices are not left behind.
But remember, I'm not good on describing sound 😸


----------



## sarkar1990

Hi guys! 

Recently got the ISN Rambo II. This is my first earbud and I am simply enjoying it! Source is my phone>sabaj da2>Rambo II

Are there any other highly recommended pairs?


----------



## daid1

Supremo Lub Yarm Choo in da house


----------



## jogawag

sarkar1990 said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> Recently got the ISN Rambo II. This is my first earbud and I am simply enjoying it! Source is my phone>sabaj da2>Rambo II
> 
> Are there any other highly recommended pairs?



First you need to write your favorite music genre. 
Next, you need to write to how you feel when you listen to ISN Rambo II.
Then politely ask for recommendations.

Otherwise, everyone has no hint of what to recommend you even if they are willing to write.


----------



## Sam L

jogawag said:


> First you need to write your favorite music genre.
> Next, you need to write to how you feel when you listen to ISN Rambo II.
> Then politely ask for recommendations.
> 
> Otherwise, everyone has no hint of what to recommend you even if they are willing to write.


agree, all helpful points of information but we can also just throw out highly recommended earbuds and let the conversation ensue? That way I can get my post count higher.... lol can't figure out how some of you have counts in the thousands.


----------



## Sam L

sarkar1990 said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> Recently got the ISN Rambo II. This is my first earbud and I am simply enjoying it! Source is my phone>sabaj da2>Rambo II
> 
> Are there any other highly recommended pairs?


You might already be aware of the Smabat s-10s. However, I prefer the Rambo 2's. The rambo's also eq really, really well so you can really dial in the sound you are looking for easily.  Honestly, if you have the following earbuds, you should be set for a long time:

1. Rambo II
2. Yincrow rw-9
3. Monk lite 120 ohm
4. Nicehck me80


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> You might already be aware of the Smabat s-10s. However, I prefer the Rambo 2's. The rambo's also eq really, really well so you can really dial in the sound you are looking for easily.  Honestly, if you have the following earbuds, you should be set for a long time:
> 
> 1. Rambo II
> 2. Yincrow rw-9
> ...


Why do you prefer the Rambo 2 over the st10s if I may ask?


----------



## KokushiTsumo

daid1 said:


> Supremo Lub Yarm Choo in da house


Incredible looking cable, how are they?


----------



## Sam L (Aug 31, 2020)

RikudouGoku said:


> Why do you prefer the Rambo 2 over the st10s if I may ask?


I really haven't compared the two extensively yet. The s10s just never really "grabbed" me. The Rambo's at first listen were compelling. While the Smabats have deeper bass and a smidge more detail in the trembles, the Rambo's bass is more textured, a bit faster and the mids are more engaging and warmer as well. The Smabat's mids are a tad analytical, which I can appreciate but when considered with the overall SQ, seems lackluster.

Perhaps the biggest factor in favoring the Rambo's is my preference towards earbuds and iems that are distinctive. The Smabats sound uninteresting. The Rambo's sound unique right off the bat. One more thing. The Rambo's have a wider and deeper soundstage than the Smabats.


----------



## jogawag (Aug 31, 2020)

Sam L said:


> I really haven't compared the two extensively yet. The s10s just never really "grabbed" me. The Rambo's at first listen were compelling. While the Smabats have deeper bass and a smidge more detail in the trembles, the Rambo's bass is more textured, a bit faster and the mids are more engaging and warmer as well. The Smabat's mids are a tad analytical, which I can appreciate but when considered with the overall SQ, seems lackluster.
> 
> Perhaps the biggest factor in favoring the Rambo's is my preference towards earbuds and iems that are distinctive. The Smabats sound uninteresting. The Rambo's sound unique right off the bat. One more thing. The Rambo's have a wider and deeper soundstage than the Smabats.



Really?
Does anyone have a second opinion?


----------



## Sam L

jogawag said:


> Really?
> Does anyone have a second opinion?


I might be a little hard on my smabat assessment. I still think they are worth the money and am perfectly happy with my purchase.

One last observation, from looking at the graph, I would of much preferred the Smabats but in real life the Rambo's convey way more qualitative sonic info then their graph indicates.


----------



## waynes world

Sam L said:


> I might be a little hard on my smabat assessment. I still think they are worth the money and am perfectly happy with my purchase.
> 
> One last observation, from looking at the graph, I would of much preferred the Smabats but in real life the Rambo's convey way more qualitative sonic info then their graph indicates.



I have the Svara 32 ohms which I love and which are the precursor to the Smabat's. Therefore I've always lusted after the Smabat's (maybe leaning towards the the black/gold version). But you seem to have similar tastes as mine, so you're getting me intrigued with these "Rambo II's". I also see other distinguished folks such as @ClieOS and @cqtek saying good things about them. Hmm, I see that the are still a bit pricey (ie $100CN) for my frugal tastes. But it might still work if I have a few too many glasses of cheap wine one of these nights


----------



## Nool (Sep 2, 2020)

I just got my Rambo2's today, I'll post my full impressions in the next few days. My biggest complaint is the default tuning, the bass and mids blend into each other causing a fair amount of congestion. Fortunately it does respond to EQ quite well and I was able to lower the mids and raise the treble for a much cleaner presentation. I also agree with @Sam L that the frequency response is a bit misleading; the treble on the Rambo2 is surprisingly competent, even after EQ. One other complaint, albeit minor is the timbre isn't as rich as I hoped, though overall it's still acceptable. Not endgame but still decent. Resolution, soundstage and imaging are all good. I'll post more later.


----------



## Sam L (Sep 1, 2020)

Nool said:


> I just got my Rambo 2's today, I'll post my full impressions in the next few days. My biggest complaint is the default tuning, the bass and mids blend into each other causing a fair amount of congestion. Fortunately it does respond to EQ quite well and I was able to lower the mids and raise the treble for a much cleaner presentation. I also agree with @Sam L that the frequency response is a bit misleading; the treble on the r2 is surprisingly competent, even after EQ. One other complaint, albeit minor is the timbre isn't as rich as I hoped, though overall it's still acceptable. Not endgame but still decent. Resolution, soundstage and imaging are all good. I'll post more later.


Yeah, the default tuning is pretty much par for the course for most earbuds - - sloppy delineation between bass and mids, overall super warm with some obscuring of low end and mid range detail.

I'm typically on a v60 as my source. 


Cleans things up nicely. Great transparency.


----------



## jogawag (Sep 3, 2020)

Nool said:


> I just got my Rambo 2's today, I'll post my full impressions in the next few days. My biggest complaint is the default tuning, the bass and mids blend into each other causing a fair amount of congestion. Fortunately it does respond to EQ quite well and I was able to lower the mids and raise the treble for a much cleaner presentation. I also agree with @Sam L that the frequency response is a bit misleading; the treble on the r2 is surprisingly competent, even after EQ. One other complaint, albeit minor is the timbre isn't as rich as I hoped, though overall it's still acceptable. Not endgame but still decent. Resolution, soundstage and imaging are all good. I'll post more later.



Thanks for your second opinion.
Considering the price of $69.00, this is news.

Thanks for the graphs by @Sam L and @ClieOS.










When I look at these graphs,
Rambo II is decreaseing under 100Hz and it seems to need EQ.
ST 10s silver is decreaseing under 60Hz and it does not seem to need EQ?
ST 10s gold is even more expensive, so is ignored here.
ST 10 green is decreaseing under 50Hz and it does not seem to need EQ, and others are similar to Rambo II.

ST 10 green without EQ is a bit expensive, but may be the best??? at least for me.


----------



## abhijollyguy

Hi Everyone

Is K's LBB's still the best choice under the USD50 budget when it comes to balanced sounding earbud?


----------



## baskingshark

abhijollyguy said:


> Hi Everyone
> 
> Is K's LBB's still the best choice under the USD50 budget when it comes to balanced sounding earbud?



Haven't heard the LBB, but my vote goes to BK2 for a balanced sound. 20 usd during sales with detachable cable.


----------



## daid1

KokushiTsumo said:


> Incredible looking cable, how are they?


quick listen, well balanced, they extend well from the bass to the high without beeing too much or too little, bass going deep or punchy when is needed, and if some recording is not well made or poor compressed you will hear it immediatly mostly on the highs to my ears, the stage is big, or maybe because voices and instrument seems are away from the listener, not too much, but neither directly in face, but this is probably makes the stage seeming big, remains very good the coerence in placing the instrument in the stage, there is a lot of clarity in the sound that helps, and details, but remains a pleasant musicality that spur me to listen more and more rather than changing song on and on, and it happened only few times in my audio jurney. As quick comparison, the Penon BS1 official aren't so coherent in their imaging and the tonalty seems to me sterile and artificial, so I'm very happy with this discovery  looking forward to receive the others


----------



## jogawag (Sep 1, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Haven't heard the LBB, but my vote goes to BK2 for a balanced sound. 20 usd during sales with detachable cable.


The cable included to the BK2 is a silver-plated copper wire, but to make the BK2's bass enough, the cable must be changed to copper wire.
For even more bass, double the foam.


----------



## fonkepala

Sam L said:


> Yeah, the default tuning is pretty much par for the course for most earbuds - - sloppy delineation between bass and mids, overall super warm with some obscuring of low end and mid range detail.
> 
> I'm typically on a v60 as my source.
> 
> Cleans things up nicely. Great transparency.



Judging from your EQ, the Rambo needs a treble boost and a significant cut in the mids?



abhijollyguy said:


> Hi Everyone
> 
> Is K's LBB's still the best choice under the USD50 budget when it comes to balanced sounding earbud?



Do be aware there's a newer version of K's LBBs. Mine should arrive sometime soon.



daid1 said:


> quick listen, well balanced, they extend well from the bass to the high without beeing too much or too little, bass going deep or punchy when is needed, and if some recording is not well made or poor compressed you will hear it immediatly mostly on the highs to my ears, the stage is big, or maybe because voices and instrument seems are away from the listener, not too much, but neither directly in face, but this is probably makes the stage seeming big, remains very good the coerence in placing the instrument in the stage, there is a lot of clarity in the sound that helps, and details, but remains a pleasant musicality that spur me to listen more and more rather than changing song on and on, and it happened only few times in my audio jurney. As quick comparison, the Penon BS1 official aren't so coherent in their imaging and the tonalty seems to me sterile and artificial, so I'm very happy with this discovery  looking forward to receive the others



Just curious, how much did this earbud cost? Cable a bit too thick and heavy, maybe? Other than that, they look lovely.


----------



## Sam L

fonkepala said:


> Judging from your EQ, the Rambo needs a treble boost and a significant cut in the mids?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Re: Rambo 2 eq, I don't listen with this setting all the time, may 30% of the time and mostly when I'm coming from my iems and know that I'm not going to stay with earbuds for more than a single 40-60 minute listening session. 

I target the harman curve with not quite as much treble or bass boost.


----------



## daid1 (Sep 1, 2020)

fonkepala said:


> Just curious, how much did this earbud cost? Cable a bit too thick and heavy, maybe? Other than that, they look lovely.



is not heavy even with the sleeve, but you can ask if you don't want it without sleeve, 125 dollars with the HUM 4.4 jack plus shipping

I don't think I will need anymore the Penon one "unfortunately"


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Someone can tell me what's the difference between K's Bell-LBB, Bell-LBW, Bell-LBS?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

fonkepala said:


> Do be aware there's a newer version of K's LBBs. Mine should arrive sometime soon.


Could you write a link newer version K's?


----------



## Sam L

Has anyone else noticed red foams tearing more easily when putting them on? I picked up a 40pk from a retailer on aliexpress that I've ordered from before (though in black)


----------



## assassin10000

Alex.Grimm said:


> Someone can tell me what's the difference between K's Bell-LBB, Bell-LBW, Bell-LBS?



I think those are the cables/colors. Black, white and with microphone.


At least I assume so given how both the 2018 and 2020 version boxes list them.





Alex.Grimm said:


> Could you write a link newer version K's?



https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html

This now sells the 2020 version. At least it thats how I got my white 2020 one. You can pm them to confirm the box/package is the larger/newer version. Nicehck has always been helpful to me.




Sam L said:


> Has anyone else noticed red foams tearing more easily when putting them on? I picked up a 40pk from a retailer on aliexpress that I've ordered from before (though in black)



Some colored foams may be made with a softer easier to tear foam than the black ones. At least a couple pairs that I've handled felt that way to me.


----------



## wskl

Alex.Grimm said:


> Could you write a link newer version K's?



I found one seller with the new version LBBs (Option C in the link)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001291477653.html

As mentioned by ClieOS, the tuning is only a little different


ClieOS said:


> Also note that the LBB upgraded model, the LBB*s *was released just before CNY, but was caught up by the outbreak and thus haven't made it to the international market yet. It retains mostly the same tuning as LBB, but slightly more lively and upfront. If you are not in any hurry and are interested in LBB, the new LBBs will be the better choice.


----------



## Nool (Sep 2, 2020)

fonkepala said:


> Judging from your EQ, the Rambo needs a treble boost and a significant cut in the mids?



Personally I'd give an emphatic yes to that, I wound up using a similar EQ setting as SamL posted. I've found subbass can be boosted about 2db before starting to hear some distortion on bass-heavy tracks, and treble can be boosted about 3db at most before starting to break up. Jacking the subbass and lowering the midbass/lower mids really cleans up the presentation, and raising the treble results in a slight u-shaped signature without much, if any compromise in sound quality. Though, seeing as I've just gotten the KSC75 and Rambo2 in the past week (as well as the ER2XR), I still need to spend quite a bit of time on all three before I'm comfortable giving any full impressions.

Since you asked relative to the KSC75, my quick and dirty impressions are that (after EQ) the Rambo2 is more resolving, also its soundstage seems to be on par with the KSC75, possibly a little smaller but the presence of subbass sort of counteracts that. Imaging is cleaner thanks to better resolution. The KSC75 might have slightly better timbre but I'm not quite sure yet. KSC75 no doubt has better default tuning, but after EQ I feel fairly certain the Rambo2 is better. Still gotta get used to things though so fair warning, I might change my mind later.

Also, I asked ISN what materials they used for the Rambo2 and they refused to answer, which was kinda funny. Penon replied that the diaphragm is "titanium composite", so it's likely some sort of titanium coated plastic, which seems to be a common configuration (the KSC75 uses titanium coated mylar, apparently).


----------



## Sam L (Sep 1, 2020)

Nool said:


> Personally I'd give an emphatic yes to that, I wound up using a similar EQ setting as SamL posted. I've found subbass can be boosted about 2db before starting to hear some distortion on bass-heavy tracks, and treble can be boosted about 3db at most before starting to break up. Jacking the subbass and lowering the midbass/lower mids really cleans up the presentation, and raising the treble results in a slight u-shaped signature without much, if any compromise in sound quality. Though, seeing as I've just gotten the KSC75 and Rambo2 in the past week (as well as the ER2XR), I still need to spend quite a bit of time on all three before I'm comfortable giving any full impressions.
> 
> Since you asked relative to the KSC75, my quick and dirty impressions are that (after EQ) the R2 is more resolving, also its soundstage seems to be on par with the KSC75, possibly a little smaller but the presence of subbass sort of counteracts that. Imaging is cleaner thanks to better resolution. The KSC75 might have slightly better timbre but I'm not quite sure yet. KSC75 no doubt has better default tuning, but after EQ I feel fairly certain the R2 is better. Still gotta get used to things though so fair warning, I might change my mind later.
> 
> Also, I asked ISN what materials they used for the Rambo2 and they refused to answer, which was kinda funny. Penon replied that the diaphragm is "titanium composite", so it's likely some sort of titanium coated plastic, which seems to be a common configuration (the KSC75 uses titanium coated mylar, apparently).


I'm surprised isn wouldn't give an answer. As you no doubt are aware, just keep in mind as you move back and forth from Rambo's to the etys and Koss, they are really different fundamentally how they all present sound. I picked up those etys when they dropped to $119 earlier this year. Couldn't resist, was pondering a purchase for over a year. The etys are still among my favorite iems, even with all the amazing chifi stuff that followed (picked up the it00, Legacy 3, and awaiting for aq7). I still don't see anything completely displacing the etys.


----------



## fonkepala

Nool said:


> Personally I'd give an emphatic yes to that, I wound up using a similar EQ setting as SamL posted. I've found subbass can be boosted about 2db before starting to hear some distortion on bass-heavy tracks, and treble can be boosted about 3db at most before starting to break up. Jacking the subbass and lowering the midbass/lower mids really cleans up the presentation, and raising the treble results in a slight u-shaped signature without much, if any compromise in sound quality. Though, seeing as I've just gotten the KSC75 and Rambo2 in the past week (as well as the ER2XR), I still need to spend quite a bit of time on all three before I'm comfortable giving any full impressions.
> 
> Since you asked relative to the KSC75, my quick and dirty impressions are that (after EQ) the R2 is more resolving, also its soundstage seems to be on par with the KSC75, possibly a little smaller but the presence of subbass sort of counteracts that. Imaging is cleaner thanks to better resolution. The KSC75 might have slightly better timbre but I'm not quite sure yet. KSC75 no doubt has better default tuning, but after EQ I feel fairly certain the R2 is better. Still gotta get used to things though so fair warning, I might change my mind later.
> 
> Also, I asked ISN what materials they used for the Rambo2 and they refused to answer, which was kinda funny. Penon replied that the diaphragm is "titanium composite", so it's likely some sort of titanium coated plastic, which seems to be a common configuration (the KSC75 uses titanium coated mylar, apparently).



Thanks for your detailed insight. Looking forward to hearing more on the Rambo 2 and the KSC75 as you get more listening time with them.


----------



## Nool (Sep 2, 2020)

Sam L said:


> The etys are still among my favorite iems, even with all the amazing chifi stuff that followed



For sure, the etymotics are superb. This is the first time I've had to critically compare stuff, so currently I'm using the ER2XR to build a small test library and get familiar with all the nuances in each track, after that I'll see how much carries over to the Rambo2 and KSC75. Of course it's unfair to compare an iem to an earbud/earphone, but it's all I have to work with.

I will say I was impressed with how resolving the Rambo2 was coming off the ER2XR, even taking bass response into account. ER2XR is still better but the Rambo2 is no slouch either. Still gonna take me a while to really figure things out.

If the Rambo2 had better default tuning I'd absolutely agree with the $70 price tag, and I'm already pretty cheap. If I weren't in a hurry I'd wait for a sale, maybe ask Penon if they'll ever bundle another cable with it again. The stock cable is a bit flimsy.


----------



## jogawag (Sep 2, 2020)

Nool said:


> For sure, the etymotics are superb. This is the first time I've had to critically compare stuff, so currently I'm using the ER2XR to build a small test library and get familiar with all the nuances in each track, after that I'll see how much carries over to the R2 and KSC75. Of course it's unfair to compare an iem to an earbud/earphone, but it's all I have to work with.
> 
> I will say I was impressed with how resolving the R2 was coming off the ER2XR, even taking bass response into account. ER2 is still better but the R2 is no slouch either. Still gonna take me a while to really figure things out.
> 
> If the R2 had better default tuning I'd absolutely agree with the $70 price tag, and I'm already pretty cheap. If I weren't in a hurry I'd wait for a sale, maybe ask Penon if they'll ever bundle another cable with it again. The stock cable is a bit flimsy.



I would like to confirm that "R2" means Rambo II, and "ER2" means ER2XR?
If so, changing the naming the same sentences without notice would make the person hard to read the sentences with unsure of what it means.


----------



## Nool

jogawag said:


> I would like to confirm that "R2" means Rambo II, and "ER2" means ER2XR?


Correct, I was being lazy. I'll go back and edit the proper names in.


----------



## Sam L (Sep 3, 2020)

I rarely listen to my gear on my laptop after my oppo ha2 and meridian explorer died.   I also picked up an LG v60 at the start of the pandemic and am still in love with the device. But tonight I though I'd connect my qudelix 5k and play with apo/peace eq to see what the results show.

For this experimental session, I tried to make the monk plus mimic the harman target.



How does it sound now? Not bad. A really lean sound since the driver is incapable of producing sub-bass and harman treble tend to be a bit bright to my ears. I could probably get things a bit closer to the harman target but I wanted to keep my eq ranges matched up with the freq ranges on the v60 eq.


----------



## fonkepala

Sam L said:


> I rarely listen to my gear on my laptop after my oppo ha2 and meridian explorer died.   I also picked up an LG v60 at the start of the pandemic and am still in love with the device. But tonight I though I'd connect my qudelix 5k and play with apo/peace eq to see what the results show.
> 
> For this experimental session, I tried to make the monk plus mimic the harman target.
> 
> ...



Did you use the parametric EQ on the Qudelix 5K to do this? If yes, mind sharing your PEQ settings? I want to try this on my 5K myself.


----------



## abhijollyguy (Sep 3, 2020)

Can anyone compare Monk+ to BK2?


----------



## fonkepala (Sep 3, 2020)

abhijollyguy said:


> Can anyone compare Monk+ to BK2?



It's been awhile since I last listened to the Monk Plus, so I'm not sure I trust myself to make a wholly accurate assessment. In a nutshell, I guess overall I'd say the BK2 sounds more balanced. Cleaner. Perhaps the others here might be able to help you out.

Just putting this out there. I enjoyed the past several days that I spent with the EMX500 Bro. They sound pretty good. Not the bassiest but that's alright with me. Treble well extended and controlled. Spacious soundstage. I remember being surprised by instrument placement & separation once or twice. 

Cable is a bit stiff and kinda tangle-y, but other than that I could find little to fault with them. Good underrated earbuds for not much more money than a Vido. These should be more talked about, IMHO.


----------



## Sam L

fonkepala said:


> Did you use the parametric EQ on the Qudelix 5K to do this? If yes, mind sharing your PEQ settings? I want to try this on my 5K myself.


I did not use the eq on the qudelix. Didn't think about that. The eq on the qudelix is great. I just don't use the qudelix that much lately. 

I'll spin things up after some morning coffee and report back here.


----------



## Pictograms

I’ve been taking more time with the EM5 and the different foams(haven’t made it to crisp yet though...) and the bass foams and the balanced foams do pretty much exactly like they say.
With the bass foams the EM5 is quite a bit like the VE sun, nice analog sort of flavour, I would say it has a nice mid bass bum.
The balanced foams are similar to using the EM5 goalless but not quite as strong treble.

Seriously though keep the foams in their containers! The bass and balanced foams seem almost identical! It would be nice if they were different colours or something! But they do give you a good amount of each so that’s nice.

I still think the Bell-ti are more comfortable but the EM5 are close behind, the only thing about them is the whole earbud is quite thick so it pushes my tragus more than then the Bell


----------



## Sam L (Sep 3, 2020)

fonkepala said:


> Did you use the parametric EQ on the Qudelix 5K to do this? If yes, mind sharing your PEQ settings? I want to try this on my 5K myself.



I didn't play with the peq filters, just did quick and dirty settings. It's more listenable than the windows apo eq settings.


----------



## fonkepala

Sam L said:


> I didn't play with the peq filters, just did quick and dirty settings. It's was more listenable than the windows apo eq settings.



Thank you for the PEQ settings. That's a big cut in the lower mids. But I guess it's needed to make the Monk + adhere closer to Harman target. Have you thought about changing the values for Q?


----------



## Sam L

fonkepala said:


> Thank you for the PEQ settings. That's a big cut in the lower mids. But I guess it's needed to make the Monk + adhere closer to Harman target. Have you thought about changing the values for Q?


Not really because I still prefer the eq on my v60. If I ever get back to listening on my laptop I will tweak the values for q.


----------



## Sam L

fonkepala said:


> Thank you for the PEQ settings. That's a big cut in the lower mids. But I guess it's needed to make the Monk + adhere closer to Harman target. Have you thought about changing the values for Q?





abhijollyguy said:


> Can anyone compare Monk+ to BK2?


I have a bk2 coming in. I'm not a fan of the Monk+. Out of the box, they are a really warm (overly so) earbud, with bloated bass that bleeds into the lower mids. Significant sub-bass roll off and if you get the ones with a mic, there's quite a bit of channel imbalance. What are you using for a source? If you're willing to spend some time with eq settings, the monk plus can be salvaged. see below for my settings via qudelix 5k. I can share my v60 settings or peace/apo eq settings if you use either of those.


----------



## Sam L

fonkepala said:


> It's been awhile since I last listened to the Monk Plus, so I'm not sure I trust myself to make a wholly accurate assessment. In a nutshell, I guess overall I'd say the BK2 sounds more balanced. Cleaner. Perhaps the others here might be able to help you out.
> 
> Just putting this out there. I enjoyed the past several days that I spent with the EMX500 Bro. They sound pretty good. Not the bassiest but that's alright with me. Treble well extended and controlled. Spacious soundstage. I remember being surprised by instrument placement & separation once or twice.
> 
> Cable is a bit stiff and kinda tangle-y, but other than that I could find little to fault with them. Good underrated earbuds for not much more money than a Vido. These should be more talked about, IMHO.


Is this the fengru version?


----------



## fonkepala

Sam L said:


> Is this the fengru version?



I bought mine from another store, but I see that Fengru sells one that looks identical. So that's a yes (I think).


----------



## jogawag (Sep 3, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Is this the fengru version?





fonkepala said:


> I bought mine from another store, but I see that Fengru sells one that looks identical. So that's a yes (I think).


Now, as in the link below, the EMX500 Unit by Fengru is for sale, so they will probably be using at least the same Unit (Driver).
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32855404616.html

Below is the MMCX version of the DIY EMX500 arriving at my home today.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33015623626.html


----------



## fokta (Sep 3, 2020)

Hi, new to earbud here.
Any suggestions for earbud, driver size14 ish (not a big ear), jack 4.4 TRRS (plug to DAP, so mobility / portability is important), With tonality more toward to Mid Low sector, good resolution, with good wide and depth soundstage...

edit : I read in some page behind, so I toward from Headphone side... 
if the additional info help..


----------



## Nool

Sam L said:


> I have a bk2 coming in


I really like the bk2, it has pretty good timbre in the upper bass and mids, and can really dig down into dirty edm bass. However the subbass and treble extension is pretty bad, and the staging is worse than average, and overall resolution is just okay. But yeah, it can really shred the upper bass and mids, better than the Rambo2 I think, although the Rambo2 wins in resolution.

Also I finished my Rambo2 review, gonna post it tomorrow. Do you mind if I include your frequency response measurement in it? I'll @ your username underneath it of course.


----------



## Sam L (Sep 3, 2020)

Nool said:


> I really like the bk2, it has pretty good timbre in the upper bass and mids, and can really dig down into dirty edm bass. However the subbass and treble extension is pretty bad, and the staging is worse than average, and overall resolution is just okay. But yeah, it can really shred the upper bass and mids, better than the Rambo2 I think, although the Rambo2 wins in resolution.
> 
> Also I finished my Rambo2 review, gonna post it tomorrow. Do you mind if I include your frequency response measurement in it? I'll @ your username underneath it of course.


absolutely, go ahead and use anything I post

**edit**
actually, let me make a new graph, without any smoothing. I've finally settled on an external sound card and dac with calibration info that gives more stable readings than anything I've posted thus far.

I have to wait til the kids are asleep, though. I'll send something in a couple hours. Email me at samklee at gmail dot com and I'll send graphs as attachments


----------



## jogawag (Sep 4, 2020)

jogawag said:


> Now, as in the link below, the EMX500 Unit by Fengru is for sale, so they will probably be using at least the same Unit (Driver).
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32855404616.html
> 
> Below is the MMCX version of the DIY EMX500 arriving at my home today.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33015623626.html


Below is the DIY EMX500 MMCX arrived at my home today. I attached a cheap(under $5) Single Crystal Copper cable and set Double Foams.

　



I really liked the sound of the Fengru EMX500 (MMCX), which has a wide sound stage and a bright and refreshing sound. So I ordered a spare immediately.
And this sound is a flat version of the bass of the Yincrow RW-9. So if you boost that bass with Double Foams, the sound will be like the Yincrow RW-9.
I highly recommend this earbud.
I am agree with @fonkepala.


Thanks for the author of this graph.(Light blue: Yincrow RW-9, Dark red: Fengru DIY EMX500)


----------



## fonkepala

Sam L said:


> Is this the fengru version?



Here's where I bought mine from.


----------



## Kalli

Hi,

I'm quite new to the earbud world and looking for a starting point to find a pair that fits my needs.
I'm not exactly sure if this is the correct thread, but I'll list some of my needs for the earbuds.


Neutral sound (Listening a lot to classical music. Mainly solo piano or piano with orchestra.)
Would like to have them wireless. Doesn't have to be "true wireless" though. Detachable with a third party Bluetooth module should be fine as well.
As an Android user I would like to have at least aptX or higher.
ANC is nice to have.
Any suggestions would be really nice.
Thanks in advance.


----------



## tuleggi

tuleggi said:


> Hi,
> I have been out of the scene since a bit. I was lucky enough to find few years ago a pair of old stock sennheiser mx 980 which I still enjoy on a daily basis. Some years ago I have been trying a cheap Chinese earbuds sub-10 dollars on AliExpress - called Monk Plus - that someone in the forum said they were comparable to the sennheiser, they were not by far - they are still in the drawer.
> Now my mx980 have the plastic of the cable which is completely opening up, do you know any tricks to save it?
> Also have you a serious alternative to suggest please? Be aware that I also loved the sound of the sennheiser mx 880, unfortunately I do not have them anymore but from memory strangely enough I liked them probably more than the mx980.
> Cheers!





tuleggi said:


> Hi, as no-one was able to reply to my questions (you can still do it  ) I have ordered some smabat ST10, hopefully they are good enough in comparison to the sennheiser MX980 I own. I will let you know, even though I am not used to in depth review as some of you I can tell you at least what my ears (similar than yours) prefers or detect
> Before ordering the ST10 I was in doubt with the RamboII which seems to have a large spectrum range but I could not see any comparison of them with the ST10 and it appears from reading the forum the ST10 are top of the line.



Hello, Smabat received!

Just a small first impressions feedback:

- firstly I didn't get the ST10 but the ST10s silver, simply because the seller was out of stock with the older ST10.

- received with two cables from Smabat, one is the black cable provided with all ST10s and the other is this one silver plated: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

- the first impression is with the earbuds connected with an external DAC and without any burning time

- soundstage: clear winner by far the Sennheiser MX980. The Smabat ST10s is not able to differentiate clearly the switch between left/right ear, at least not as fast and precise as the mx980

- spectrum and notes: also here the winner is the Sennheiser MX980. With the Smabat I feel there is something missing, I of course hear all notes but with the Sennheiser it seems more real. I also hear too much treble and bass with the Smabat, there is no harmony overall of the sound to me. The music also sound less music at the moment with the smabat but more bum bum when there are basses and hiiiiii when there are trebes.

- FYI for those who think that the cable switch would not make a big difference, it is not true. With the standard black cable of the smabat the volume is louder and there are much more basses. With the silver plated cable above instead the treeble are more present, the volume and basses are lower. With either cables the quick analysis made above compared to the Sennheiser MX980 is valid.

I am now burning the new smabat earbuds, hoping to have a different result tomorrow, otherwise they will be open for sales   and I would still have to search for a replacement of the Sennheiser MX980 (of which cable is almost dead)  
PS: I had ordered during a promotion period in aliexpress also the NICEHCK ME80 as well as the NICEHCK DIY MX500, I will test them out but I would be surprised that they would perform better than the more expensive smabat.


----------



## zFlashz

Can anyone know what is the level of this in the first page? I heared Vido, old earpods (with round head), and the current earpods are better, if i remember right. thks


----------



## Nool

fokta said:


> Hi, new to earbud here.
> Any suggestions for earbud, driver size14 ish (not a big ear), jack 4.4 TRRS (plug to DAP, so mobility / portability is important), With tonality more toward to Mid Low sector, good resolution, with good wide and depth soundstage...



If you're coming from the focal elear, you might be disappointed with what earbuds can do. That said, the ISN Rambo 2 definitely has good soundstage and resolution, although I think its timbre is lacking.

I haven't heard it, but you might want to look at the 150ohm Smabat ST-10s black/gold, especially if you have a DAP to drive it. The bass on its frequency response was impressive.

Both are mmcx, so you should be able to use a 4.4 cable with them.



Kalli said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm quite new to the earbud world and looking for a starting point to find a pair that fits my needs.
> I'm not exactly sure if this is the correct thread, but I'll list some of my needs for the earbuds.
> ...



Are you looking for earbuds, or IEMs? Crinacle has a great list of tws IEMs: https://crinacle.com/guide/tws/

Buying a pair of used Galaxy Buds (which are iems, not earbuds) is usually the default recommendation, currently.

If you're after tws earbuds I purchased the QCY T3, which seems to be the same as the QCY T5 which crinacle rated favorably, just in an earbud shell. I haven't received them yet though so I can't tell you if they're any good, if you want I can @ you when they show up.

Most good tws are IEMs, so if you gotta have buds you might have to get something with an mmcx jack and use a bluetooth thing.


----------



## Kalli

Nool said:


> Are you looking for earbuds, or IEMs? Crinacle has a great list of tws IEMs: https://crinacle.com/guide/tws/
> 
> Buying a pair of used Galaxy Buds (which are iems, not earbuds) is usually the default recommendation, currently.
> 
> ...


I'm looking for earbuds (or anything that doesn't go too deep into my ears, since I don't like that.
So either some classic "old school" style earbuds. Or something people reference at "semi-in-ear" sometimes (like the AirPods (non Pro)).

If you could @ me if you write about them that would be really nice.

And MMCX is some kind of a standard connector? Anything to think about it, or its simply one type of connector?
I also saw some 2-pin and 4-pin connectors.


----------



## Nool

Kalli said:


> I'm looking for earbuds (or anything that doesn't go too deep into my ears, since I don't like that.
> So either some classic "old school" style earbuds. Or something people reference at "semi-in-ear" sometimes (like the AirPods (non Pro)).
> 
> If you could @ me if you write about them that would be really nice.
> ...


Will do, and yup mmcx is just a type of connector, and I think is the most common. There's no real difference between them except that mmcx can rotate.


----------



## Nool

@Kalli also fair warning, I placed my order for the T3 about three weeks ago, and tracking says it's still on its way to the US, assuming that's even accurate. Might show up tomorrow, a week from now, or even never. I bought them off aliexpress so that wouldn't be unheard of. Just a heads up.


----------



## fonkepala

Nool said:


> I haven't heard it, but you might want to look at the 150ohm Smabat ST-10s black/gold, especially if you have a DAP to drive it. The bass on its frequency response was impressive.
> 
> Both are mmcx, so you should be able to use a 4.4 cable with them.



Are the Smabats wired for balanced? I mean, if one were to use a 4.4 Pentacon balanced cable with the Smabats, will one be able to reap the benefits of a balanced connection and make full use of the extra power/clarity (supposedly) when it's connected to a dap/amp/dac that has a 4.4 balanced jack? 

I've always been rather confused about this subject. All I know so far is to avoid plugging single-ended stuff into a balanced jack and that's it. Plugging a balanced plug into an SE jack is fine.

Another way to put it: I have the BK2. Say I bought a 2.5mm balanced MMCX cable. Can I use this cable with the BK2 and then plug it into my amp/dac that has 2.5 balanced out to get a truly 'balanced' connection & experience? Or not (because the BK2 isn't 'wired' for balanced, maybe)?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Sam L

Kalli said:


> I'm looking for earbuds (or anything that doesn't go too deep into my ears, since I don't like that.
> So either some classic "old school" style earbuds. Or something people reference at "semi-in-ear" sometimes (like the AirPods (non Pro)).
> 
> If you could @ me if you write about them that would be really nice.
> ...


The top semi-in-ear tws models are:
- sabat x12 pro
- fill cc
- galaxy buds live

I have the fill cc and buds live. Never listened to the x12. I recommend the fill cc. The sound is v-shaped with an incredible amount of bass for a semi-in-ear. But what stands out is the treble, a bit too much for me but easily cut via eq.

I'm in agreement with the observations in this review: https://www.scarbir.com/tws/fiil-cc-review


----------



## Kalli

Sam L said:


> The top semi-in-ear tws models are:
> - sabat x12 pro
> - fill cc
> - galaxy buds live
> ...


Thanks man. Others did already suggest the smabat and samsungs as well.
Which of those would you suggest if I don't want a lot of bass? As neutral as possible for classical music.


----------



## waynes world

Kalli said:


> Would like to have them wireless. Doesn't have to be "true wireless" though. Detachable with a third party Bluetooth module should be fine as well.
> As an Android user I would like to have at least aptX or higher.
> ANC is nice to have.
> Any suggestions would be really nice.
> Thanks in advance.



If a bluetooth receiver would work for you, there are many excellent ones out there now (aptX or LDAC and other codecs) such as the ES100, BTR3K, BTR5, and 5K. This is a great resource.


----------



## Kalli

waynes world said:


> If a bluetooth receiver would work for you, there are many excellent ones out there now (aptX or LDAC and other codecs) such as the ES100, BTR3K, BTR5, and 5K. This is a great resource.


Thanks a lot for that. 
I'm trying to get an overview about my options at the moment. 

So basically there are TWS earbuds, TWS adapters and BT adapters?


----------



## Sam L

Kalli said:


> Thanks man. Others did already suggest the smabat and samsungs as well.
> Which of those would you suggest if I don't want a lot of bass? As neutral as possible for classical music.


I don't recommend the galaxy buds live anymore, the novelty has worn off. You can get much better sound for less. 90% of my listening is with classical music, so I would stay away from the buds live. They aren't terrible, just not great for the price. The buds live bring a fun, v-shaped sound to classical music which sounds great at first but you quickly realize that the music presented sounds nothing like the intent of the recording engineer or the actual situation (live, etc.). They do calls really well, though.

I'm not familiar with what eq apps are on the iPhone, but if you're on an android device, there are a good number that are decent. I recommend powereq. Wavelet is also great, but powereq allows you to save 10 custom settings, so when I'm not on my v60, I rely on powereq to hold profiles for my 10 most listened to iems/buds. (you can also overwrite the 10 presets but can't rename them).

With an eq, I'd recommend the Fiil CC. Though it has strong bass, they don't bleed into the lower mids and the bass is surprisingly refined, fast, and resolving. The mic on the Fiil CC is pretty decent too, which, to be honest is rare for a TWS. 

For calls:
Jawbone products = 10/10 (for a benchmark)
Apple Airpods Pro = 9/10
Galaxy buds live = 8.5/10
Jabra 65t = 8/10
Sony wf-1000xm3 = 8/10
Fiil CC = 7/10
most of the sub $100 TWS = 2.5/10


----------



## Kalli (Sep 4, 2020)

Sam L said:


> I don't recommend the galaxy buds live anymore, the novelty has worn off. You can get much better sound for less. 90% of my listening is with classical music, so I would stay away from the buds live. They aren't terrible, just not great for the price. The buds live bring a fun, v-shaped sound to classical music which sounds great at first but you quickly realize that the music presented sounds nothing like the intent of the recording engineer or the actual situation (live, etc.). They do calls really well, though.
> 
> I'm not familiar with what eq apps are on the iPhone, but if you're on an android device, there are a good number that are decent. I recommend powereq. Wavelet is also great, but powereq allows you to save 10 custom settings, so when I'm not on my v60, I rely on powereq to hold profiles for my 10 most listened to iems/buds. (you can also overwrite the 10 presets but can't rename them).
> 
> ...


Thanks for that detailed response.
I get what you mean with the Galaxy buds. v-shaped just sucks for classical music.
Might just get a decent BT adapter and plug in whatever I want. Since I really like over-ears for not sticking into my brain and having nice sound quality. But for everyday usage it's just way easier to use something small that fits in a pocket.
With the BT adapter there is no ANC though, which comes in quite handy in a train or on a plane.


----------



## Nool (Sep 5, 2020)

fonkepala said:


> Are the Smabats wired for balanced? I mean, if one were to use a 4.4 Pentacon balanced cable with the Smabats, will one be able to reap the benefits of a balanced connection and make full use of the extra power/clarity (supposedly) when it's connected to a dap/amp/dac that has a 4.4 balanced jack?
> 
> I've always been rather confused about this subject. All I know so far is to avoid plugging single-ended stuff into a balanced jack and that's it. Plugging a balanced plug into an SE jack is fine.
> 
> ...


I don't know much about balanced signals but iirc there's no problem using an unbalanced cable with a balanced signal, or vice versa. It'll still "work", you just won't be getting the all the benefits. I remember reading that balancing the signal is only really useful when you're running long lines of cable, and isn't very impactful for personal use, so I sorta lost interest. So I can't really comment on it much.

Edit: wow I'm terribly wrong, using an unbalanced cable with a balanced signal, especially from a dedicated amplifier, will cause a short circuit. Since a balanced output has four leads, the sleeve on a TRS jack (as opposed to a TRRS jack, which has four separate parts, one for each lead) will be resting on two leads in the balanced output simultaneously, causing a short.


----------



## fokta (Sep 4, 2020)

Nool said:


> If you're coming from the focal elear, you might be disappointed with what earbuds can do. That said, the ISN Rambo 2 definitely has good soundstage and resolution, although I think its timbre is lacking.
> 
> I haven't heard it, but you might want to look at the 150ohm Smabat ST-10s black/gold, especially if you have a DAP to drive it. The bass on its frequency response was impressive.
> 
> Both are mmcx, so you should be able to use a 4.4 cable with them.


Thank you for the heads up.
I need earbud that have similar Tonality like headphone.
It will be great for me, since I will be more portable, rather bringing Headphone...

anyway, on my first run for earbud, I tried KkGIS P1, interesting Vocal and quite airy...

Tried Willsound PK32, Laid back and Dark signature IMO. start to get the hang of it, when an offering was given, and I have to sell it.

Try the Local customed earbud using EMX500 driver... still in burn in process...


my eye is looking VE Zen 2...


----------



## waynes world

Kalli said:


> Might just get a decent BT adapter and plug in whatever I want. Since I really like over-ears for not sticking into my brain and having nice sound quality. But for everyday usage it's just way easier to use something small that fits in a pocket.



That is one of the benefits of a BT receiver. Use all of your existing wired headphones if you like. Clip the receiver wherever you like, and if you have headphones with removable cables, you can get shorter cables and clip the receiver to your shirt collar etc.



> With the BT adapter there is no ANC though, which comes in quite handy in a train or on a plane.



True.


----------



## Kalli

waynes world said:


> That is one of the benefits of a BT receiver. Use all of your existing wired headphones if you like. Clip the receiver wherever you like, and if you have headphones with removable cables, you can get shorter cables and clip the receiver to your shirt collar etc.


True.
Can i match the "performance" of 300-400€ Bluetooth over-ear headphones with a Bluetooth adapter + earbuds? Hopefully not more expensive all together and similar SQ.
I have the Shure AONIC 50 (over-ear) at the moment, but will probably sell them because they're too big for me as daily usage headphones.


----------



## Sam L

Question for you Smabat s-10s owners, particularly the black/silver model.

1. What do you love about the sound it produces?
2. What other earbuds do you love?

I spent a full hour tweaking the sound via EQ and find that they are really hard to tune. The biggest hurdle is working around the 2k spike and the huge 9k notch. My EQ philosophy is as follows:

1. simple is better. the fewest adjustments are preferred.
2. cut is better than boost.
3. no PEQ because my main source is my v60. Although I can use the PEQ in the qudelix 5k, I prefer the stock lg eq (it's really good, lots of headroom and very little distortion, not to mention the ability to label custom settings. sadly qudelix app does not allow saving label.)
4. I target the Harman IEM curve but not aggressive so as to compromise #1 and #2. I welcome preserving the individual uniqueness of the iem/bud.

Which brings me to the Smabat s-10s, these cannot be tuned anywhere close to the Harman curve without destroying the SQ. So now I'm going to take a break and read your input to inform what to target when I go at it again in a couple days.


----------



## Nool

I finally posted my review of the ISN Rambo II: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/isn-rambo-ii.24542/reviews

Much thanks to @Sam L for providing the frequency response graphs! They are indispensable imo for comparing different equipment.

Also if anyone has any problems with my review, or any questions, feel free to comment on it and I'll do my best to answer.


----------



## assassin10000

fonkepala said:


> Are the Smabats wired for balanced?
> 
> I've always been rather confused about this subject. All I know so far is to avoid plugging single-ended stuff into a balanced jack and that's it. Plugging a balanced plug into an SE jack is fine.
> 
> Another way to put it: I have the BK2. Say I bought a 2.5mm balanced MMCX cable. Can I use this cable with the BK2 and then plug it into my amp/dac that has 2.5 balanced out to get a truly 'balanced' connection & experience?



The difference between balanced and single ended is the power/ground.

Single ended has 1 power supply and shares the ground.

Balanced has 2 power supplies and separate grounds.


Balanced can be used single ended but single ended cannot be used balanced. Because the shared ground will short or connect the separate circuits.


This is all done through the cable. If your earbud or IEM is detachable you can choose to use either. So yes, you can run the BK2 balanced with a cable change.


----------



## jogawag (Sep 5, 2020)

fonkepala said:


> Are the Smabats wired for balanced? I mean, if one were to use a 4.4 Pentacon balanced cable with the Smabats, will one be able to reap the benefits of a balanced connection and make full use of the extra power/clarity (supposedly) when it's connected to a dap/amp/dac that has a 4.4 balanced jack?
> 
> I've always been rather confused about this subject. All I know so far is to avoid plugging single-ended stuff into a balanced jack and that's it. Plugging a balanced plug into an SE jack is fine.
> 
> ...



All MMCX eabuds will work well when balanced with MMCX balance cables.
If the earbuds don't work well when balanced, the reason may be the amplifier's performance is bad.

I have both BK2 and Smabat ST10(Green), IMO they both work well with balanced with a Single Crystal Copper balance cable.


----------



## jogawag (Sep 5, 2020)

waynes world said:


> If a bluetooth receiver would work for you, there are many excellent ones out there now (aptX or LDAC and other codecs) such as the ES100, BTR3K, BTR5, and 5K. This is a great resource.





assassin10000 said:


> The difference between balanced and single ended is the power/ground.
> 
> Single ended has 1 power supply and shares the ground.
> 
> ...



I have "Shanling UP4" as a blue tooth portable amplifier in addition to BTR5.
And due to UP4's caracterintic function of single end dual dac mode, it makes a great and powerful sound as like balance sound even for earbuds with normal 3.5mm jack.
So I highly recomend Shanling UP4 for user whose most of earbuds are with normal 3.5mm jack.


----------



## zFlashz

Sam L said:


> I don't recommend the galaxy buds live anymore, ...
> For calls:
> Jawbone products = 10/10 (for a benchmark)
> Apple Airpods Pro = 9/10
> ...


Hi Sam L, do you know what is the level of Apple Earpods if we put it in the first page list, thnks


----------



## Sam L

zFlashz said:


> Hi Sam L, do you know what is the level of Apple Earpods if we put it in the first page list, thnks


I'm not exactly sure what you mean. If you mean by call quality, I would rank the apple airpods 8.5/10. If you mean sound quality where I mentioned the top semi-in-ears as being the sabbat x12, fill cc and galaxy buds live, then I would rank the airpods this way:

fill cc = 8/10
buds live = 7/10
sabbat x12 = 7-8/10. I'm guessing here because I have not owned the x12 (there are also several variations of the x12)
airpods = 4/10. I gave my airpods long ago to my daughter because they don't sound that great at all musically. If you compare the bass on the fiil's to the airpods, the difference is shocking.


----------



## dharmasteve

I've started a thread "My guilty pleasure IEMs/BUDs". Anyone brave enough to confess and go through the shame...... come and tell us. IEMs/BUDs under $40. No critiques, purely pleasure. You are in a confession booth.


----------



## dharmasteve

If you feel like confessing about those cheap buds/iems that you shouldn't like but do. The one's you wear in front of a big gun bud/iem..... then confess at

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/my-guilty-pleasure-iems-buds.941633/


----------



## dharmasteve

If you feel like confessing about those cheap buds/iems that you shouldn't like but do. The one's you wear in front of a big gun bud/iem..... then confess at

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/my-guilty-pleasure-iems-buds.941633/


----------



## fonkepala

assassin10000 said:


> The difference between balanced and single ended is the power/ground.
> 
> Single ended has 1 power supply and shares the ground.
> 
> ...





jogawag said:


> All MMCX eabuds will work well when balanced with MMCX balance cables.
> If the earbuds don't work well when balanced, the reason may be the amplifier's performance is bad.
> 
> I have both BK2 and Smabat ST10(Green), IMO they both work well with balanced with a Single Crystal Copper balance cable.



Thanks to you both for your valuable inputs, much appreciated. Basically 'This is all done through the cable' is the answer I'm looking for. And taking into account jogawag's suggestion, I've ordered an MMCX balanced copper cable terminated in 2.5mm for the BK2. Looking forward to hooking it up to my balanced sources.


----------



## cenizas

baskingshark said:


> Wow, that's very unique indeed. How was the timbre on that piezo earbud? So far for the budget piezo IEMs that I've tried, most of them were airy and had good transients/technicalities but they had a weird timbre for acoustic instruments, sounded "brittle" to me. Like for example, they had a very quick decay for drums that sounded a bit too unnatural. But for electronic/synthetic music, they were very good. The piezos were also rather power hungry in general, and scaled better with amping.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Been busy, finally getting around to replying  I feel the same as you in terms of piezo timbre on iems, but surprisingly on the earbuds, it sounds quite natural, though it still has a bit of that piezo zing on the top end, at first I thought it was simply a DD and had to double check the box. I diyed a piezo dynamic hybrid bud that behaved similarly, I think because the sound has to move through more air and the foams, a lot of the ringing that causes the unnaturalness gets dampened so I do believe the earbud form really helps with a lot of the issues the piezo have with iems.


----------



## Vannak

Hello friend 
Has anyone tried the new smabat m2 pro
It looks very interesting


----------



## baskingshark

Vannak said:


> Hello friend
> Has anyone tried the new smabat m2 pro
> It looks very interesting



Wrote a small review here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-m2-pro.24517/reviews#item-review-24141/

It is a good midfi set, especially for those who wanna explore different tuning modules, foam covers, or even soldering different driver types to change the sound signature. So in essence, u are actually getting more than one earbud with purchase, as there are many permutations to the sound. 

Technicalities aren't the best, but it has good timbre, good fit (can be worn over ear or cable down). DIYers will have a field day, but even if you can't solder well to change drivers, the foam covers and tuning modules don't require soldering and u can already get a few sound signatures without soldering.


----------



## Vannak

baskingshark said:


> Wrote a small review here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-m2-pro.24517/reviews#item-review-24141/
> 
> It is a good midfi set, especially for those who wanna explore different tuning modules, foam covers, or even soldering different driver types to change the sound signature. So in essence, u are actually getting more than one earbud with purchase, as there are many permutations to the sound.
> 
> Technicalities aren't the best, but it has good timbre, good fit (can be worn over ear or cable down). DIYers will have a field day, but even if you can't solder well to change drivers, the foam covers and tuning modules don't require soldering and u can already get a few sound signatures without soldering.


Thanks a lot


----------



## XP_98 (Sep 6, 2020)

Any opinion about what are today's very best Mmcx earbuds available ?
Can they beat or equal the best "fixed cable" earbuds ?


----------



## daid1

XP_98 said:


> Any opinion about what are today's very best Mmcx earbuds available ?



Probably, Cax red dragon, Miracle Totem that I never heard unfortunately  , and let's see with Tiny Woodcraft when they arrived


----------



## XP_98

daid1 said:


> Probably, Cax red dragon, Miracle Totem that I never heard unfortunately  , and let's see with Tiny Woodcraft when they arrived


Don't count in Ourart QJ21 ?


----------



## daid1

XP_98 said:


> Don't count in Ourart QJ21 ?


if you ask for the very best so probably nope, but only who has everything can say some more valuable subjective response


----------



## XP_98

daid1 said:


> if you ask for the very best so probably nope, but only who has everything can say some more valuable subjective response


Why do you exclude QJ21 from very best ?
I didn't find a Mmcx version of CAX red Dragon ?
And didn't find Miracle totem at all...


----------



## daid1

XP_98 said:


> Why do you exclude QJ21 from very best ?
> I didn't find a Mmcx version of CAX red Dragon ?
> And didn't find Miracle totem at all...



my bad sorry I had a lapse, the Red Dragon has fixed cable, don't know if upon request they can do mmcx, but is totally customizable so maybe? The Miracle Totem is some obscure Thai item, you can found it in the Thai group on Facebook, if you want to include the QJ21 I think you need to watch also to the ATH CM2000Ti, I was not including it because you ask for the very best and I went straight on item on 700 and over price range


----------



## jogawag

daid1 said:


> my bad sorry I had a lapse, the Red Dragon has fixed cable, don't know if upon request they can do mmcx, but is totally customizable so maybe? The Miracle Totem is some obscure Thai item, you can found it in the Thai group on Facebook, if you want to include the QJ21 I think you need to watch also to the ATH CM2000Ti, I was not including it because you ask for the very best and I went straight on item on 700 and over price range


The ATH CM2000Ti is using the A2DC connector and not MMCX.


----------



## XP_98 (Sep 7, 2020)

Another fundamental question I ask myself : is the classical earbud form factor (Yuin shell, mx500 shell) a limiting factor for sound quality ?
Which means : do the more exotic new shells/bodies (k's Bell ti, ourart qj21, smabat, ...) allow to go further in sound quality ? Or is shell factor not really important, vs driver and fine tuning ?


----------



## baskingshark

XP_98 said:


> Another fundamental question I ask myself : is the classical earbud form factor (Yuin shell, mx500 shell) a limiting factor for sound quality ?
> Which means : do the more exotic new shells/bodies (k's Bell ti, ourart qj21, smabat, ...) allow to go further in sound quality ? Or is shell factor not really important, vs driver and fine tuning ?



For me, firstly the fit is the most important in a earbud. Even if a earbud sounds heavenly but can't give u a good fit, that defeats the purpose doesn't it. We all have different ear anatomy though, so YMMV, some may fit the newer shells better or vice versa. Good thing is some of the newer designs eg SMABAT line can let one wear the cable over ear or hanging down, so that increases fit options. 

I think shell shape definitely influences the sound. Not to mention shell material, shell size, location of driver, damping materials etc, they all affect the resonances and sound signature for sure.


----------



## XP_98

XP_98 said:


> Another fundamental question I ask myself : is the classical earbud form factor (Yuin shell, mx500 shell) a limiting factor for sound quality ?
> Which means : do the more exotic new shells/bodies (k's Bell ti, ourart qj21, smabat, ...) allow to go further in sound quality ? Or is shell factor not really important, vs driver and fine tuning ?


I wonder what HungryPanda would have answered...
@ClieOS maybe ?


----------



## mbwilson111

XP_98 said:


> I wonder what HungryPanda would have answered...
> @ClieOS maybe ?


HungryPanda would have said that the shell does affect the sound.  He sometimes used the same drivers in two or three different shells to see what would happen .

In my list are all the buds he made for me,,, along with all of my other gear.  They are all good.  

I don't know what to do with all the supplies that are here... drivers, shells, tuning materials...

There are unfinished projects.  Some already had names but now they will never exist.  

I have not been listening to much music.  Too painful.  Too emotional.  Plus my left ear hurt for a long time even after I had recovered from covid.  Mostly I just try to keep his garden alive and I binge watch a lot of Netflix series.


----------



## Narayan23 (Sep 7, 2020)

mbwilson111 said:


> HungryPanda would have said that the shell does affect the sound.  He sometimes used the same drivers in two or three different shells to see what would happen .
> 
> In my list are all the buds he made for me,,, along with all of my other gear.  They are all good.
> 
> ...



He was irreplaceable, we all miss him, but I´m sure he´s looking down and wants you to be happy and smile once again. Dealing with loss is hard, in times when I´ve been down I made it it a point to try and end the day with gratitude and a smile, to that end I do as yourself and watch an episode of Brooklyn Nine Nine or a standup comedian that I like on youtube (Dave Chapelle, Bill Burr, Norm McDonald, Steve Hoffsteter and how he deals with hecklers etc) just watch comedians, find one you like and go over his work, you might find yourself doing the unthinkable beforehand and laughing out loud. Regarding the music, well this one´s for you:


----------



## SciOC

baskingshark said:


> For me, firstly the fit is the most important in a earbud. Even if a earbud sounds heavenly but can't give u a good fit, that defeats the purpose doesn't it. We all have different ear anatomy though, so YMMV, some may fit the newer shells better or vice versa. Good thing is some of the newer designs eg SMABAT line can let one wear the cable over ear or hanging down, so that increases fit options.
> 
> I think shell shape definitely influences the sound. Not to mention shell material, shell size, location of driver, damping materials etc, they all affect the resonances and sound signature for sure.


I'm just getting into buds but this is the biggest factor....  and much more difficult for me with buds than IEMs or over the ear sets.  Fit is just wonky.

The FAAEL Snow lotus 1.0+ I have sounds very, very good....  IF I get them to seal ok.  And even when I get them to seal ok it's just ok, not like an IEM seal and I'm still getting maybe 75% optimal performance?

 If I press on them into my ears they sound much much better (and louder) and the bass stops leaking out.  But you can't do that all the time....

I should get my ME80 and smabat st10s (gold) in a few days, but the sacrifices with buds are obvious and finding a "decent" fit is way, way harder for me than with IEMs/headphones.


----------



## Kalli

SciOC said:


> I should get my ME80 and smabat st10s (gold) in a few days, but the sacrifices with buds are obvious and finding a "decent" fit is way, way harder for me than with IEMs/headphones.


Would love to hear your thoughts on the Smabat.


----------



## Kalli

Are earbuds in general a bad idea if I want to use them on the go (street, bus, train, plane)?


----------



## digititus

Kalli said:


> Are earbuds in general a bad idea if I want to use them on the go (street, bus, train, plane)?


If you enjoy sound isolation, then yes. If you want to hear your surroundings, then they are great.


----------



## Kalli

digititus said:


> If you enjoy sound isolation, then yes. If you want to hear your surroundings, then they are great.


That's about 50:50 ...

Hearing my surroundings is fine, since I mostly listen to speakers when I'm at home. And I actually like that. Feels more natural to me. And it's obviously safer when being outside.
On the other hand, isolation/ANC does a pretty nice job if it comes to sound improvement in loud environments.

I had some earbuds in the past, and it was pretty annoying on the train. Pushing the volume up as much as possible to hear at least a bit when things get loud around me.

So it comes down to either earbuds + ANC (probably some TWS all-in-one device (Galaxy buds live?!?)) or IEMs + environment mode (IEM with detachable cable + TWS adapter with ENV mode (Shure TW1 adapter)).

Sound wise I really like the Shure Aonic 50 headphones. Pretty natural and detailed. The only downside is the portability on those. That's why I'm looking for something small. Since I don't like things deep in my ear I was hoping that earbuds are worth to look at.


----------



## digititus

Kalli said:


> That's about 50:50 ...
> 
> Hearing my surroundings is fine, since I mostly listen to speakers when I'm at home. And I actually like that. Feels more natural to me. And it's obviously safer when being outside.
> On the other hand, isolation/ANC does a pretty nice job if it comes to sound improvement in loud environments.
> ...


Personally, I will take IEM's everytime when in public spaces / transport. Earbuds for quiet places only. But that's me


----------



## assassin10000

Kalli said:


> That's about 50:50 ...
> 
> Hearing my surroundings is fine, since I mostly listen to speakers when I'm at home. And I actually like that. Feels more natural to me. And it's obviously safer when being outside.
> On the other hand, isolation/ANC does a pretty nice job if it comes to sound improvement in loud environments.
> ...



The buds live ANC is weak and will not do enough on a train or plane.


Sounds like you may want to get earbuds for most of your usage and then a pair of TWS that are IEM like for isolation for planes and trains.

I like my Mavin Air-XR's as they are a shallower fit IEM design. I use foam tips that just seal the outside/entrance of my ear canal and don't go in deep. Way more comfortable fit than most.


----------



## rkw

Kalli said:


> Are earbuds in general a bad idea if I want to use them on the go (street, bus, train, plane)?


They can work for casual listening (such as podcasts), but earbuds do not block outside sound and it may be difficult to listen to music without turning up the volume, perhaps to unhealthy levels. In a noisy environment such as a plane, isolation or ANC is needed to enjoy your audio.


----------



## antdroid

SciOC said:


> I'm just getting into buds but this is the biggest factor....  and much more difficult for me with buds than IEMs or over the ear sets.  Fit is just wonky.
> 
> The FAAEL Snow lotus 1.0+ I have sounds very, very good....  IF I get them to seal ok.  And even when I get them to seal ok it's just ok, not like an IEM seal and I'm still getting maybe 75% optimal performance?
> 
> ...



Smabat ST10s gold is the closest I've heard to an IEM in terms of sound quality and full frequency response and note weight, so I'm pretty happy with those. I did EQ it a little bit so once you get it I can share my EQ with you if you are interested. It tones down a little bit of the shoutiness at 2KHz and I opted to prioritize subbass over midbass. Its one of the few ear buds I've tried that has low end bass response and good quality sound overall. I use it quite often now!


----------



## Kalli

assassin10000 said:


> Sounds like you may want to get earbuds for most of your usage and then a pair of TWS that are IEM like for isolation for planes and trains.


Since I'm in a train a lot, I should give IEMs a real shot I think.



rkw said:


> They can work for casual listening (such as podcasts), but earbuds do not block outside sound and it may be difficult to listen to music without turning up the volume, perhaps to unhealthy levels. In a noisy environment such as a plane, isolation or ANC is needed to enjoy your audio.


Is IEM isolation on par with over-ear ANC? This would make an IEM + TWS/BT adapter a viable option.


----------



## fokta

I am new & learninh in earbud, and I will not let my eyes close for it. VE Zen 2.0 is great, 
bought used one, still in good shape (but smell, previous owner was a heavy smoker... how you remove this?) 
Got the XLR balance jack, and was thinking to reterminate to 4.4 TRRS... 
sound impression, this earbud really represent Headphone characters... was astonished by the staging and the micro detail... 
good gear for mobile usage... offcourse since its open back, need silence surrounding...


----------



## baskingshark

SciOC said:


> If I press on them into my ears they sound much much better (and louder) and the bass stops leaking out.  But you can't do that all the time....



Are u using full foams or donut foams with your earbud?

One option is to buy aftermarket thicker foams. They sell like a 100 pieces for a dollar or so on Aliexpress. U can bring the foam against a light and see how much light it lets thru, and perhaps u can buy something with thicker density. Otherwise, put a second pair of full foams over the first pair (so u have 2 pairs), this will thicken the foam and perhaps give u a better fit.

One thing I found about buds is that sometimes u might have to wear them with the stem at a weird angle to give optimal fit. SMABATS have the option to be worn cable down or over ear, so hopefully that opens more fit options for u.



Kalli said:


> Are earbuds in general a bad idea if I want to use them on the go (street, bus, train, plane)?



I value hearing protection a lot, and I'd say earbuds are a bad idea for commuting. Transit noise can go to around 85 dB or so, and earbuds have zero isolation, so one may pump up the volumes to overcome the travel noise, not good for hearing health in the long term.

Secondly, most earbuds have poor subbass extension compared to IEMs, and bass is generally lost first in a noisy environment (I'm a basshead so can't be losing my bass haha).

Of course, YMMV, I have friends that want to use earbuds on the go for safety reasons. I'd still use buds for walking down the street, but personally won't use it on buses, trains and airplanes for hearing health.


----------



## rkw

Kalli said:


> Is IEM isolation on par with over-ear ANC?


They vary in isolation depending on the design and type of eartip. The highest isolation is deep insertion style such as Etymotic, which are highly effective and equivalent to wearing earplugs. I suggest that you purchase IEMs from a vendor that has a trial and return policy so that you can check isolation, fit, and comfort.


----------



## XP_98 (Sep 8, 2020)

Considering it's agreed, from all your answers, that the shell affects the sound, I will ask differently :
Do you think (for those who could compare), that the new shells, particularly Ourart QJ21, Bell ti, ..., assuming the fit is ok, can go further than "classical" shell TOTL (Turandot, swd2+, Red Dragon) ?
Do the new shells open doors to go further in SQ ?


----------



## lijing

KBEAR Stellar
15.4mm dynamic driver
Plug type: 3.5mm
Use for: music, games, calls, etc
Price:$3.69 - 3.99
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001351336216.html?spm=2114.12010611.8148356.3.16011640pHOS5D


----------



## darmanastartes

Sam L said:


> Question for you Smabat s-10s owners, particularly the black/silver model.
> 
> 1. What do you love about the sound it produces?
> 2. What other earbuds do you love?
> ...


I reviewed the ST-10S and the OG ST-10. What I liked about the ST-10S was the clarity and detail retrieval in combination with the sub-bass extension. I also thought it was a more mature tuning than the ST-10, which flaunted its bass response and had a more aggressive and exaggerated upper midrange. I loved the unique housing design as well. The OG ST-10 raised the bar in terms of higher-end earbuds having unique housing designs and not just shoving higher impedance drivers into generic shells and charging more.  I appreciated that the MMCX connectors were integrated into the housing design, as opposed to the DIY-type connectors on many other earbuds that look very much tacked on.  
As far as other earbud favorites, I also really like the Nicehck ME80, which is a wonderful starter earbud with a more balanced and agreeable tuning than either the ST-10 or ST-10S. The ME80 is not quite as good as either Smabat earbud in the detail retrieval department.


----------



## cqtek

In my opinion, the Smabat ST-10s Silver didn't look as well-rounded as I expected, as I said in my review.
I see the new M2 Pro, which came to me today, more coherent in the mid zone.


----------



## fonkepala

lijing said:


> KBEAR Stellar
> 15.4mm dynamic driver
> Plug type: 3.5mm
> Use for: music, games, calls, etc
> ...



Another Vido look-alike & sound-alike?


----------



## RikudouGoku

fonkepala said:


> Another Vido look-alike & sound-alike?


It does look like it has a different driver so maybe not? Although the shell does look like a vido...


----------



## theresanarc

Not sure what to buy, I need an upgrade on my Qian39/DIY PK2/Edifiers. I also have some MX500 shell ones but I'm not buying any more of that shell, it's not comfortable.

My plan was to get Qian69s but they don't seem to ship. You guys seem to like SMABATs but I'm a bit hesitant to spend above like $40 or so because of the shipping problems we're having right now plus I'm not sure if that design will be very ergonomic for me.


----------



## waynes world

theresanarc said:


> Not sure what to buy, I need an upgrade on my Qian39/DIY PK2/Edifiers. I also have some MX500 shell ones but I'm not buying any more of that shell, it's not comfortable.
> 
> My plan was to get Qian69s but they don't seem to ship. You guys seem to like SMABATs but I'm a bit hesitant to spend above like $40 or so because of the shipping problems we're having right now plus I'm not sure if that design will be very ergonomic for me.



Get these: NICEHCK B40


----------



## theresanarc

I'll order those B40s but I also noticed that the NICEHCK store is selling Ksearphone Bell-LB and EB2s (I've linked below). Thinking of ordering one of those as well, are they good value for the price? I mainly listen to indie/alternative/pop-rock at low-ish volumes.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/329...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32917468583.html?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.44.271f40c2Fgin2p


----------



## luckyeights

Can anyone identify these buds?


----------



## jogawag (Sep 9, 2020)

luckyeights said:


> Can anyone identify these buds?



The cable junction of these earbuds is probably labeled "CRESYN" on it.
If you can confirm it, these earbuds are a copy product of the Docomo earbuds(drivers) by Cresyn(a Korean company) that I used to buy and have from China.
They sounded better than average, I think.

This product is introduced and sold in the following page. :
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4434963/all


----------



## oxblood

Where to get unmodded Kubes that ships internationally? Looking to recable them myself and they don't seems to be on ebay anymore.


----------



## jao29

Hi! I'm planning to buy the Smabat ST-10s, the 40ohm variant. However, I'am kind of worried because I remember seeing a post here in this forum that the mmcx connectors were loose. Is that still the case now? Many thanks!


----------



## fonkepala

oxblood said:


> Where to get unmodded Kubes that ships internationally? Looking to recable them myself and they don't seems to be on ebay anymore.



Check your PM.


----------



## RikudouGoku (Sep 9, 2020)

Can you guys suggest some earbuds I can upgrade to that is similar to the NiceHCK MX500, traceless or the Faaeal Snow lotus 2.5?

For referrence I dislike the DQSM Turandot, way too unnatural tonality and too bright for me (although that bass is good). I would like to have a similar signature as the 3 above but with better sub-bass (at least somewhat comparable to iems would be nice).

The smabat ST10s seems to have one of the best bass but I am not sure if I would like it since it seems to be a bright bud. L-shaped I guess would be preferred.

EDIT: A replaceable cable would be a huge plus, but NOT required IF the stock cable is decent. (Not like on the Faaeal Iris or the Snow lotus, they feel disgusting.)


----------



## luckyeights

jogawag said:


> The cable junction of these earbuds is probably labeled "CRESYN" on it.
> If you can confirm it, these earbuds are a copy product of the Docomo earbuds(drivers) by Cresyn(a Korean company) that I used to buy and have from China.
> They sounded better than average, I think.
> 
> ...



Wow your good haha.   I was trying to figure this out because this is what wong is using as a donar to make the blur 173.  he is recablling them and doing a burn in and selling it for $175.  He says they are as good if not better than the sw dragon 2+ and on the same playing field as the turandot.


----------



## Sam L

luckyeights said:


> Wow your good haha.   I was trying to figure this out because this is what wong is using as a donar to make the blur 173.  he is recablling them and doing a burn in and selling it for $175.  He says they are as good if not better than the sw dragon 2+ and on the same playing field as the turandot.


If you're implying price gouging, here are some things to consider :

- just the material for a good cable can run 40-60% of the final price, not to mention labor to build the cable. Not difficult, I know, as I've built cables before, but still easily justifies another $10-15 labor to make the cable.

- there's also a premium that should be considered along the lines of an artist commission.

- wong's builds have been highly regarded for quite some time. If they aren't worth the price, the market would of priced him out long ago.

- reviews are not easy to come by, but well regarded head'fiers have vouched for his products.

Good enough for me. And I do not doubt his claims.


----------



## waynes world

theresanarc said:


> I'll order those B40s but I also noticed that the NICEHCK store is selling Ksearphone Bell-LB and EB2s (I've linked below). Thinking of ordering one of those as well, are they good value for the price? I mainly listen to indie/alternative/pop-rock at low-ish volumes.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/329...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32917468583.html?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.44.271f40c2Fgin2p



Yeah, you should probably get those as well lol! Actually, I don't have either of them, so I'll let others comment on them.

But if the form factor is okay for you, the ME80's are definite winners: NICEHCK ME80


----------



## fonkepala

Sam L said:


> If you're implying price gouging, here are some things to consider :
> 
> - just the material for a good cable can run 40-60% of the final price, not to mention labor to build the cable. Not difficult, I know, as I've built cables before, but still easily justifies another $10-15 labor to make the cable.
> 
> ...



+1. I still distinctly remember the time I demo'd one of Wong's creations. It was astounding. I hope to be able to afford a Blur someday.


----------



## Sam L

Spent some time cleaning up the sound from the Yuin PK2.

Even after significant alterations, the graph looks pretty horrendous. The only way to fix this is with using a PEQ, but since I'm mainly doing this for my phone, I stay with graphic eq settings. Not posting graphs since they look so ugly. 

Importantly, what I noticed is that the typical sub-bass roll-off since in many/most buds are significantly less pronounced when you cut the upper bass/lower mids. Not surprising when you consider that many of the bass and mid bloat sounding buds are actually putting out prodigious amounts of low end, it just sounds all muddy (to my ears).




drastic looking, I know...


----------



## KokushiTsumo

RikudouGoku said:


> Can you guys suggest some earbuds I can upgrade to that is similar to the NiceHCK MX500, traceless or the Faaeal Snow lotus 2.5?
> 
> For referrence I dislike the DQSM Turandot, way too unnatural tonality and too bright for me (although that bass is good). I would like to have a similar signature as the 3 above but with better sub-bass (at least somewhat comparable to iems would be nice).
> 
> ...


Sent you a PM if you don't mind. Got a set of ST10s gold from a friendly fellow in this thread for cheap but ended up not using them a whole lot (too high of an impedance for my phone, which is my primary source).


----------



## wskl

jao29 said:


> Hi! I'm planning to buy the Smabat ST-10s, the 40ohm variant. However, I'am kind of worried because I remember seeing a post here in this forum that the mmcx connectors were loose. Is that still the case now? Many thanks!



The loose connectors were only on some early batches in the 1st revision of the original ST-10 (green color).  Pretty sure that it won't be an issue in the newer ST-10s.


----------



## jao29

wskl said:


> The loose connectors were only on some early batches in the 1st revision of the original ST-10 (green color).  Pretty sure that it won't be an issue in the newer ST-10s.



Thanks for the heads up! currently having a hard time deciding whether to buy the ST-10s 40 ohm or the Smabat M2 pro. I  listen to mostly rock, rap, and electronic music. What do you guys suggest should I buy between the two?


----------



## Sam L

jao29 said:


> Thanks for the heads up! currently having a hard time deciding whether to buy the ST-10s 40 ohm or the Smabat M2 pro. I  listen to mostly rock, rap, and electronic music. What do you guys suggest should I buy between the two?


What are some of your favorite IEMs?


----------



## baskingshark

jao29 said:


> Thanks for the heads up! currently having a hard time deciding whether to buy the ST-10s 40 ohm or the Smabat M2 pro. I  listen to mostly rock, rap, and electronic music. What do you guys suggest should I buy between the two?



I haven't heard the SMABAT ST10S 40 ohm (aka black silver), but some members here have said the black gold (150 ohm) version sounds better. Maybe you might wanna top up a bit more for it? Though it might need a powerful source in view of the 150 ohm impedance.

The SMABAT M2 Pro has tuning modules (and even the option to put aftermarket drivers inside but u will need soldering skills), so it sort of gives u more than one earbud with this purchase, cause u can make it V shaped or more neutralish. I would think for your music genres as above, a V shaped sound would have better bass quantity and make the music more "fun". SMABAT M2 Pro on the tuning module that makes it V shaped actually has not bad subbass extension for a earbud, and bass quantity is not bad, though there's a slight midbass bleed.


----------



## jao29

baskingshark said:


> I haven't heard the SMABAT ST10S 40 ohm (aka black silver), but some members here have said the black gold (150 ohm) version sounds better. Maybe you might wanna top up a bit more for it? Though it might need a powerful source in view of the 150 ohm impedance.
> 
> The SMABAT M2 Pro has tuning modules (and even the option to put aftermarket drivers inside but u will need soldering skills), so it sort of gives u more than one earbud with this purchase, cause u can make it V shaped or more neutralish. I would think for your music genres as above, a V shaped sound would have better bass quantity and make the music more "fun". SMABAT M2 Pro on the tuning module that makes it V shaped actually has not bad subbass extension for a earbud, and bass quantity is not bad, though there's a slight midbass bleed.



Hmm My current dap is only an Ipod touch, so the black gold (150 ohm) is out of the question.  Plus, I'm not planning to buy an amp anytime soon. I think I saw a review of the M2 pro's that the pre installed tuning modules are the neutral sounding ones, if that's the case, in your experience, is it difficult to change the tuning modules to the V shaped one? I know there is a video that has a tutorial on how to change the modules, but I'am kind of nervous since I have no experience changing or disassembling earbuds.


----------



## baskingshark

jao29 said:


> Hmm My current dap is only an Ipod touch, so the black gold (150 ohm) is out of the question.  Plus, I'm not planning to buy an amp anytime soon. I think I saw a review of the M2 pro's that the pre installed tuning modules are the neutral sounding ones, if that's the case, in your experience, is it difficult to change the tuning modules to the V shaped one? I know there is a video that has a tutorial on how to change the modules, but I'am kind of nervous since I have no experience changing or disassembling earbuds.



Changing the tuning modules is easy, just use the card key to pull out the module and put the new one in. The only risk is damaging the driver wiring if u accidentally screw the earbud cover on the wire when replacing the cover. It can be easily changed within a minute or so. There's a provided full foams vs silicone cover that can also change the signature, so many permutations even if you don't change drivers. 

If u wanna explore different aftermarket driver types, that one is difficult, it needs soldering skills.

The SMABAT M2 Pro benefits from amping though, it scales better with amping and dynamics get better with more bass quantity/extension. So if you really wanna get the most out of it, it might be good to invest in a cheap DAC/AMP dongle thing.


----------



## Nool

Sam L said:


> Spent some time cleaning up the sound from the Yuin PK2.
> 
> Even after significant alterations, the graph looks pretty horrendous. The only way to fix this is with using a PEQ, but since I'm mainly doing this for my phone, I stay with graphic eq settings. Not posting graphs since they look so ugly.
> 
> ...


I really find it strange how prevalent midbass bloat is, in earbuds and in IEMs. This is the EQ I'm using on the Rambo2:

Raised subbass 2db, pulled the mids down 3.5db, raised >1khz 1-4db. Sounds way cleaner, and the boosted subbass becomes much more notable. I really don't know who would prefer the original tuning.

Also a request, if you're making measurements it'd be cool to add them to their respective head gear entries. Even if it does look like garbage, I've found frequency response graphs are best used for sorting out stuff that's obviously bad. Once I've seen that it has a sane enough tuning I get interested in how capable it really is. It's up to you though, I'm way too cheap to have enough stuff to warrant getting into measurements myself.


----------



## jao29 (Sep 9, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Changing the tuning modules is easy, just use the card key to pull out the module and put the new one in. The only risk is damaging the driver wiring if u accidentally screw the earbud cover on the wire when replacing the cover. It can be easily changed within a minute or so. There's a provided full foams vs silicone cover that can also change the signature, so many permutations even if you don't change drivers.
> 
> If u wanna explore different aftermarket driver types, that one is difficult, it needs soldering skills.
> 
> The SMABAT M2 Pro benefits from amping though, it scales better with amping and dynamics get better with more bass quantity/extension. So if you really wanna get the most out of it, it might be good to invest in a cheap DAC/AMP dongle thing.



Turns out I have a Cozoy takt dongle dac/amp. I think that would be sufficient enough to drive the M2 pro. Will the M2 pro with the pre installed neutral module with full foams be good enough for rock, rap and electronic music? Im not really keen on changing the modules if I ever do buy them this month. Maybe in the future? Once this whole Covid thing is over.  Thanks in advance, you've been really helpful!


----------



## baskingshark

jao29 said:


> Turns out I have a Cozoy takt dongle dac/amp. I think that would be sufficient enough to drive the M2 pro. Will the M2 pro with the pre installed neutral module with full foams be good enough for rock, rap and electronic music? Im not really keen on changing the modules if I ever do buy them this month. Maybe in the future? Once this whole Covid thing is over.  Thanks in advance, you've been really helpful!



I think it would be better to have more bass for rock and rap, cause with the default neutralish bright module, even with full foams, I find it too bass lite for me (but I'm a basshead maybe not the best person to take bass reference from haha, so YMMV). The default neutralish bright module is good for vocals and acoustic stuff though.


----------



## assassin10000

Sam L said:


> Spent some time cleaning up the sound from the Yuin PK2.
> 
> Even after significant alterations, the graph looks pretty horrendous. The only way to fix this is with using a PEQ, but since I'm mainly doing this for my phone, I stay with graphic eq settings. Not posting graphs since they look so ugly.
> 
> ...



Which version of the Yuin PK2? There is the old one and a newer one afaik.


----------



## Sam L

assassin10000 said:


> Which version of the Yuin PK2? There is the old one and a newer one afaik.


Don't know... I got this one:
https://apos.audio/collections/in-e...-earphones/products/yuin-pk2-earbud-earphones

The soundstage after all this eq'ing is incredible.


----------



## jao29

Sam L said:


> What are some of your favorite IEMs?


I like my Andromeda's and Tin T3's. I also like the JVC FXT-90's. But for some reason, I gravitate towards earbuds nowadays because of the ease and comfort of use. haha


----------



## superuser1




----------



## baskingshark

superuser1 said:


>



Haha this looks like an IEM though, not bud. But would be interesting to see what the sound is like. Non detachable cable blah. Their last budget SSR had equivocal reviews for being shouty at the 3 kHz region, and the supposed bassier variant (SSP) is still nowhere in sight.


----------



## Sam L

baskingshark said:


> Haha this looks like an IEM though, not bud. But would be interesting to see what the sound is like. Non detachable cable blah. Their last budget SSR had equivocal reviews for being shouty at the 3 kHz region, and the supposed bassier variant (SSP) is still nowhere in sight.


@Slater has a SSP


----------



## superuser1

baskingshark said:


> Haha this looks like an IEM though, not bud. But would be interesting to see what the sound is like. Non detachable cable blah. Their last budget SSR had equivocal reviews for being shouty at the 3 kHz region, and the supposed bassier variant (SSP) is still nowhere in sight.


Ooops my mistake! I thought i was in the discovery thread 😂


----------



## DBaldock9

superuser1 said:


> Ooops my mistake! I thought i was in the discovery thread 😂



I always try to double-check the URL in the address bar, before clicking the "Post reply" button...


----------



## fonkepala

RikudouGoku said:


> EDIT: A replaceable cable would be a huge plus, but NOT required IF the stock cable is decent. (Not like on the Faaeal Iris or the Snow lotus, they feel disgusting.)



Which Snow Lotus? And what's 'disgusting' about the cable? I actually don't mind the cable that's on the Snow Lotus 1.0+ CE and the Rosemary.



Nool said:


> I really find it strange how prevalent midbass bloat is, in earbuds and in IEMs. This is the EQ I'm using on the Rambo2:
> 
> Raised subbass 2db, pulled the mids down 3.5db, raised >1khz 1-4db. Sounds way cleaner, and the boosted subbass becomes much more notable. I really don't know who would prefer the original tuning.
> 
> Also a request, if you're making measurements it'd be cool to add them to their respective head gear entries. Even if it does look like garbage, I've found frequency response graphs are best used for sorting out stuff that's obviously bad. Once I've seen that it has a sane enough tuning I get interested in how capable it really is. It's up to you though, I'm way too cheap to have enough stuff to warrant getting into measurements myself.



Nice vertical EQ graph. What app/software did you use that has such a graph?


----------



## RikudouGoku

fonkepala said:


> Which Snow Lotus? And what's 'disgusting' about the cable? I actually don't mind the cable that's on the Snow Lotus 1.0+ CE and the Rosemary.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice vertical EQ graph. What app/software did you use that has such a graph?


The snow lotus with the 2.5mm balanced cable. I dont like the feel and look of it, it doesnt feel good I guess it is the very high friction that I dont like or something..


----------



## KokushiTsumo

If anyone here wants a nearly unused pair of smabat ST10s gold (150ohm) with the original box and accessories for 50eur + postage, shoot me a message. Selling due to reasons I specified before (too high of an impedance for my phone)


----------



## Sam L

Tried eq tweaking the sound on the Nicehck B40...

I have the model with mic, which I do not recommend unless you relegate the set to video/voice calls primarily. The channel variance is horrifying.



This setting will get you substantially closer to Harman Target, but it sounds terrible:



I don't have a graph of the outcome yet. I'll put one up later.
Some light compression across the bands yield this:



Sounds much, much better. Makes the B40 more listenable to my ear but I still don't recommend the mic version of the B40.


----------



## theresanarc (Sep 10, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Sounds much, much better. Makes the B40 more listenable to my ear but I still don't recommend the mic version of the B40.



 I just ordered the B40's based on recommendations here and guess which version I ordered like an idiot, the mic'd lmao. I knew I should've just gone with the regular like usual but I thought I could use a pair of backup earbuds since I sometimes need a headset for my job and Edifier P190s are my only mic'd earbud.

Still, I'm not picky and this is the only pair of earbuds for music I've ordered in like an year so I was just dipping my toes in the water, will likely get a bit more of an upgraded PK-shell earbud in a bit.


----------



## luckyeights

Sam L said:


> If you're implying price gouging, here are some things to consider :
> 
> - just the material for a good cable can run 40-60% of the final price, not to mention labor to build the cable. Not difficult, I know, as I've built cables before, but still easily justifies another $10-15 labor to make the cable.
> 
> ...



I wasnt implying anything.  I ordered a pair of his blur 173 hope to get it soon been in the mail for a week. I was just curious of the donar bud so I could see if I could buy it and do a comparison.


----------



## Sam L

luckyeights said:


> I wasnt implying anything.  I ordered a pair of his blur 173 hope to get it soon been in the mail for a week. I was just curious of the donar bud so I could see if I could buy it and do a comparison.


Ah, apologies. 

Do let us know how they are.


----------



## Sam L

theresanarc said:


> I just ordered the B40's based on recommendations here and guess which version I ordered like an idiot, the mic'd lmao. I knew I should've just gone with the regular like usual but I thought I could use a pair of backup earbuds since I sometimes need a headset for my job and Edifier P190s are my only mic'd earbud.
> 
> Still, I'm not picky and this is the only pair of earbuds for music I've ordered in like an year so I was just dipping my toes in the water, will likely get a bit more of an upgraded PK-shell earbud in a bit.


To be honest, even with this much channel variation it's not destructive to the listening experience. In fact, it wasn't obvious to me until I was AB'ing the b40 and the yuin pk2 when I realized that the balance felt weird on the b40. Again nothing obvious like one side was louder than the other, but it was a bit disorienting going back and forth. I don't think I would have picked up on it if I weren't AB testing.

I'd suggest bumping down the lower mids and raising the upper mids a tad.


----------



## Sam L

Has anyone come across a graph of the Fiio em5?


----------



## thehientk

I need everyone to review FENGRU DIY PT52


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Sep 11, 2020)

How long I resisted and did not believe that I might like it. I decided and bought myself SHOZY B.K (STARDUST). Sound Inspired by Oldschool, but very clean well-balanced sound, wide stage, good bass, musical sound, vocals ahead, flaws in recordings are not audible, the details are balanced. Put on and just get high🤩. If you want to hear a lot of nuances in songs then DQSM Turandot. But I like Shozy BK more.


Spoiler


----------



## fonkepala

Alex.Grimm said:


> How long I resisted and did not believe that I might like it. I decided and bought myself SHOZY B.K (STARDUST). Sound Inspired by Oldschool, but very clean well-balanced sound, wide stage, good bass, musical sound, vocals ahead, flaws in recordings are not audible, the details are balanced. Put on and just get high🤩. If you want to hear a lot of nuances in songs then DQSM Turandot. But I like Shozy BK more.
> 
> 
> Spoiler



Grats! Where did you buy it from & for how much?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

fonkepala said:


> Grats! Where did you buy it from & for how much?


I bought for $136.75 on sale at the DD-Audio Store, I hurried a little, then I found for $125 in NAOI Factory outlets store, but it was too late, my order was confirmed. I looked, it is no longer available now in NAOI. It is also available in the Penon store.


Spoiler



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32840627688.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32761532509.html
https://penonaudio.com/shozy-bk-black.html


----------



## RikudouGoku (Sep 11, 2020)

I promised myself to not buy any more *IEMS *for a while but I didnt say anything about *earbuds *so I ordered these:

Ksearphone Nameless
Yincrow X6
Ksearphone Bell-LB
NiceHCK B40


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> I promised myself to not buy any more for a while *IEMS *but I didnt say anything about *earbuds *so I ordered these:
> 
> Ksearphone Nameless
> Yincrow X6
> ...



Very interested in the Bell-LB, let us know how it turns out.


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> Very interested in the Bell-LB, let us know how it turns out.


yeah, that shape is certainly unique.   
I got them with DHL express so hopefully no more than 2 weeks before I get them. (since it is friday and late over there, I doubt they will ship it out until at least monday...)


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> yeah, that shape is certainly unique.
> I got them with DHL express so hopefully no more than 2 weeks before I get them. (since it is friday and late over there, I doubt they will ship it out until at least monday...)



Wow is DHL express almost the cost of the earbud itself?


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> Wow is DHL express almost the cost of the earbud itself?


I paid 30 usd for it.

The earbuds came in at around 70 usd, free shipping is a month or more for me so...


----------



## thehientk

RikudouGoku said:


> I promised myself to not buy any more for a while *IEMS *but I didnt say anything about *earbuds *so I ordered these:
> 
> Ksearphone Nameless
> Yincrow X6
> ...


I hope you will review them all.


----------



## jogawag (Sep 11, 2020)

Alex.Grimm said:


> How long I resisted and did not believe that I might like it. I decided and bought myself SHOZY B.K (STARDUST). Sound Inspired by Oldschool, but very clean well-balanced sound, wide stage, good bass, musical sound, vocals ahead, flaws in recordings are not audible, the details are balanced. Put on and just get high🤩. If you want to hear a lot of nuances in songs then DQSM Turandot. But I like Shozy BK more.
> 
> 
> Spoiler


This is my most favorite earbuds I've ever listened to, consisting of the Docomo earbuds MMCX head and the same MMCX cable (balanced version) as the Shozy BK.
The Docomo earbuds driver is also known as the original untuned version of the driver used in the Shozy BK and Shozy Cygnus.
I like the untuned Docomo earbuds driver better than the Shozy BK's, as it has more treble definition.


----------



## RikudouGoku

thehientk said:


> I hope you will review them all.


Dont know. I only review stuff if they are above a certain rank for me, as it is a waste of time otherwise.

And I did buy them at full price so I am not required to review them either.


----------



## baskingshark

jogawag said:


> This is my favorite earbuds I've ever listened to, consisting of the Docomo earbuds MMCX head and the same MMCX cable (balanced version) as the Shozy BK.
> The Docomo earbuds driver is also known as the original untuned version of the driver used in the Shozy BK and Shozy Cygnus.
> I like the untuned Docomo earbuds driver better than the Shozy BK's, as it has more treble definition.



Any link?


----------



## jogawag (Sep 11, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Any link?


I purchased the Docomo earbuds at a flea market. However, you may still be able to purchase the white version at the following link where I have purchased them
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=4771866

The MMCXed shell of the Docomo earbuds has been previously mentioned below.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15832825

Finally, here's a link to the same MMCX cable (and a balanced version) product as the Shozy BK. However, it doesn't seem to be available anymore.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32801403356.html


----------



## jao29

I decided to listen to my Penon Bs1 official today. And I still don't get the praise that it got. Don't get me wrong, it's a decent earbud,  detail is there, as is good soundstage, but I found the bass to be severely lacking. And this is coming from someone who doesn't mind weak bass. Some of you might call me crazy haha, but I prefer the Monk plus and Toneking Tp16 to the Penon Bs1 official. I also like the Ubiquo Es903 better than the Penon bs1 official. Am I missing something here? Or maybe the bs1 official is not really for me?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

My first acquaintance with YINMAN 600. Sounds like the full size. There is some kind of charm due to the wooden shells.🧙‍♂️


Spoiler


----------



## Alex.Grimm

jao29 said:


> I decided to listen to my Penon Bs1 official today. And I still don't get the praise that it got. Don't get me wrong, it's a decent earbud,  detail is there, as is good soundstage, but I found the bass to be severely lacking. And this is coming from someone who doesn't mind weak bass. Some of you might call me crazy haha, but I prefer the Monk plus and Toneking Tp16 to the Penon Bs1 official. I also like the Ubiquo Es903 better than the Penon bs1 official. Am I missing something here? Or maybe the bs1 official is not really for me?


You are not the only one, for me BS-1 was boring and I sold them. I also like a little more lows. For some, my friends who like metal BS-1 have sharp high frequencies.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Sep 11, 2020)

jogawag said:


> This is my most favorite earbuds I've ever listened to, consisting of the Docomo earbuds MMCX head and the same MMCX cable (balanced version) as the Shozy BK.
> The Docomo earbuds driver is also known as the original untuned version of the driver used in the Shozy BK and Shozy Cygnus.
> I like the untuned Docomo earbuds driver better than the Shozy BK's, as it has more treble definition.


I know that about driver I had Docomo, I didn't like Docomo, Shozy BK sounds like tuned Docomo for me, I like Shozy more. It sounds much better to me.


----------



## Nool

My Faaeal Iris Commemorative Edition showed up today. Gotta say these are impressive for $7. Neutral-bright tuning with usual subbass rolloff, slightly above average resolution, average soundstage/imaging. Timbre is good but comes in very thin.

What impresses me most is the bright-ish tuning, which is rare to find in earbuds. Treble on this is pretty competent. Still sounds thin though, like most cheap buds.


----------



## jogawag

Alex.Grimm said:


> I know that about driver I had Docomo, I didn't like Docomo, Shozy BK sounds like tuned Docomo for me, I like Shozy more. It sounds much better to me.


For those of you who prefer a warm sound, I can see why you prefer the Shozy BK sound.

But what is the earbuds in the attached picture? it just looks like replacing the Shozy Cygnus cables with copper cables...
If you prefer the Shozy BK sound, why don't you attach a picture of the Shozy BK?

By the way, was the Docomo you used to have a true Docomo with a 4pole plug? 
It's not like the Docomo copy of Cresyn that was discussed the other day, is it?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

jogawag said:


> By the way, was the Docomo you used to have a true Docomo with a 4pole plug?


Its Docomo recabled


----------



## jogawag

Alex.Grimm said:


> Its Docomo recabled


Where is your Shozy BK? If you prefer the Shozy BK sound, why don't you attach a picture of the Shozy BK?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

jogawag said:


> Where is your Shozy BK? If you prefer the Shozy BK sound, why don't you attach a picture of the Shozy BK?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3280#post-15856614


----------



## Sam L

The Ksearphone Nameless came in today, the earbuds someone surmised could be excess oem inventory.

These are excellent. I grabbed the package on the way out of the house, so I'll sit down and give them a listen later. Quick impressions are:
- really good tuning out of the box
- strong bass but doesn't bleed into the mids too badly.
- minor lower mid bloat, but really not much
- highs have good detail retrieval and extension.
- mids are on the warm side but not overly so because of the excellent treble.
- cable is cheap but has low memory retention, so I appreciate that.

first thing that came to mind is these are similar to the rw-9 but with better mids.

Best buds under $10 for me, by far


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> I promised myself to not buy any more *IEMS *for a while but I didnt say anything about *earbuds *so I ordered these:
> 
> Ksearphone Nameless
> Yincrow X6
> ...



just got the kseaphone nameless. You will be pleasantly surprised at how good they are for $9


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> The Ksearphone Nameless came in today, the earbuds someone surmised could be excess oem inventory.
> 
> These are excellent. I grabbed the package on the way out of the house, so I'll sit down and give them a listen later. Quick impressions are:
> - really good tuning out of the box
> ...


wow, sounds like I won the lottery then.   

Thanks for the impressions, now you made me very interested in getting them.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Sam L said:


> The Ksearphone Nameless came in today,


I got too, nice budget buds, need compare to k's 32 and qian25


----------



## Sam L

Alex.Grimm said:


> I got too, nice budget buds, need compare to k's 32 and qian25


Ummm. Don't tempt me please. 

What do you consider to be the top 3 buds under $10?


----------



## Sam L

Alex.Grimm said:


> I got too, nice budget buds, need compare to k's 32 and qian25


Found the qian25. Can't locate the k's 32


----------



## Sam L

Sam L said:


> Found the qian25. Can't locate the k's 32


Nm. Found it


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Sam L said:


> Ummm. Don't tempt me please.
> 
> What do you consider to be the top 3 buds under $10?


Need to think, RY4S Plus MMCX version will be on this top


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Sam L said:


> Nm. Found it


no longer on AliExpress


----------



## fonkepala

Sam L said:


> Has anyone come across a graph of the Fiio em5?



Grats on the EM5 acquisition Sam! That aside, I'm interested to know the line of reasoning that you applied in plonking down $300 for it, especially since you're a seasoned earbuds user. Looking forward to your FR graphs pre- & post burn in & also your detailed impressions of it.



Alex.Grimm said:


> I bought for $136.75 on sale at the DD-Audio Store, I hurried a little, then I found for $125 in NAOI Factory outlets store, but it was too late, my order was confirmed. I looked, it is no longer available now in NAOI. It is also available in the Penon store.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



Thanks. So the Shozy BK Black on Penon is exactly the same as the Shozy BK Stardust that you bought?



RikudouGoku said:


> I promised myself to not buy any more *IEMS *for a while but I didnt say anything about *earbuds *so I ordered these:
> 
> Ksearphone Nameless
> Yincrow X6
> ...



My K's Nameless & LBBS have just got off burn in and is now in line to be auditioned. If you're interested, I can share my impression of them here.



Nool said:


> My Faaeal Iris Commemorative Edition showed up today. Gotta say these are impressive for $7. Neutral-bright tuning with usual subbass rolloff, slightly above average resolution, average soundstage/imaging. Timbre is good but comes in very thin.
> 
> What impresses me most is the bright-ish tuning, which is rare to find in earbuds. Treble on this is pretty competent. Still sounds thin though, like most cheap buds.



Which color shell of the Iris CE, transparent clear or transparent gray? It's interesting to note that you found them to be neutral-bright sounding, as the Iris 2.0 that I bought recently tended to be on the warmish & thick side of things. I just bought the Iris CE in transparent gray shell a few days ago, supposedly it has a new revised tuning compared to the transparent clear shell version. Looking forward to try them out when they arrive.



Sam L said:


> just got the kseaphone nameless. You will be pleasantly surprised at how good they are for $9



I got my K's Nameless for just under $2  It's amazing sometimes to see how much Aliexpress prices are jacked up really.



Sam L said:


> Found the qian25. Can't locate the k's 32



I pulled out my Qian 25 (blue shell) yesterday after a long time of being in storage. Felt impressed and enamored by them all over again. I can't remember where I read this but supposedly the Qian 25 in blue is the one with the best SQ. Can't verify though as I don't have any of the other colors. One drawback of the Qian 25 is the noodle thin cable which doesn't instill much confidence. It's even thinner and flimsier than the Vidos.


----------



## RikudouGoku

fonkepala said:


> My K's Nameless & LBBS have just got off burn in and is now in line to be auditioned. If you're interested, I can share my impression of them here.
> 
> Which color shell of the Iris CE, transparent clear or transparent gray? It's interesting to note that you found them to be neutral-bright sounding, as the Iris 2.0 that I bought recently tended to be on the warmish & thick side of things. I just bought the Iris CE in transparent gray shell a few days ago, supposedly it has a new revised tuning compared to the transparent clear shell version. Looking forward to try them out when they arrive.
> 
> I got my K's Nameless for just under $2  It's amazing sometimes to see how much Aliexpress prices are jacked up really.


Sure, would love to hear (hopefully positive) impressions on them.   

I also found the Iris CE to be bright-neutral (transparent clear).

2 usd...wow what a rip off from aliexpress  (was it from taobao?).


----------



## fonkepala

RikudouGoku said:


> Sure, would love to hear (hopefully positive) impressions on them.
> 
> I also found the Iris CE to be bright-neutral (transparent clear).
> 
> 2 usd...wow what a rip off from aliexpress  (was it from taobao?).



Right, will do. Now I'm really curious about how the new Iris CE will sound like. The shop description said it has better bass and better soundstage as well, IIRC.

Yup, from Taobao. Someone here mentioned that the K's Nameless was purportedly selling 'at a loss' to clear off excess stock. I took a look at the AE price and thought to myself 'welp, they're not selling at a loss there'


----------



## Nool

@fonkepala the Faaeal Iris CE I bought has the totally clear shell, same one RikudouGoku posted a head gear review on. Definitely a bright tuning, sorta reminds me of the ksc75, though the timbre and staging on the ksc75 is better.


----------



## fonkepala

Nool said:


> @fonkepala the Faaeal Iris CE I bought has the totally clear shell, same one RikudouGoku posted a head gear review on. Definitely a bright tuning, sorta reminds me of the ksc75, though the timbre and staging on the ksc75 is better.



Okay, thanks for the clarification.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Sep 11, 2020)

fonkepala said:


> Thanks. So the Shozy BK Black on Penon is exactly the same as the Shozy BK Stardust that you bought?


Yes, the same, my BK also black


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Sep 12, 2020)

K's Nameless. A budget top?


----------



## jogawag (Sep 12, 2020)

Black and White Docomo Old Variant earbuds re-drivered with Docomo New Variatnt earbuds' driver and recabled with cheep OCC cable.
The bass of this earbuds is well enhanced than with the original New Docomo Variant shell, perhaps due to the long stems of Docomo Old Variant shell.
I purchased Docomo Old Variant earbuds at a flea market, and cheep OCC cable for $5 in aliexpress.


----------



## fonkepala

I'm not knowledgeable in reading/interpreting FR graphs. Can someone take a look at this and tell me their thoughts or how best to describe the sound signature that this graph implies?


----------



## Nool (Sep 12, 2020)

fonkepala said:


> I'm not knowledgeable in reading/interpreting FR graphs. Can someone take a look at this and tell me their thoughts or how best to describe the sound signature that this graph implies?


Is that an IEM? Crinacle has a huge collection of measurements, you can read through his reviews and get a sense of what the FR conveys. Here's the ER2SE, which is considered neutral tuning (though probably a little bright for some). Generally, neutral is flat with a 1-8khz boost because of the way our ears interpret higher frequencies. So looking at the FR you posted I'd say it's neutral-warm, since the treble would be sunken below the other frequencies. There might be some discrepancies in the way earbuds are measured though.

Also re your earlier question about balanced outputs & cables (which I gave an incorrect impression about), it's been bugging me and I haven't been able to find a concrete answer anywhere, even on an audiophile discord server. But the problem, I *think*, is that a balanced output jack has four leads inside it, designed for a balanced jack with four separate parts (TRRS, tip, two rings, and a sleeve). An unbalanced jack only has three (TRS), making the sleeve longer than a TRRS jack. So when you plug in an unbalanced jack to a balanced output, the longer sleeve will connect the last two leads together, causing a short circuit within the amp itself, which obviously is not good, especially if it's set to push out a lot of power.

I *think* that's what the main problem is. Also TRS jacks are apparently also balanced, I dunno man, but it seems obvious to me that plugging a TRS jack into a socket designed exclusively for TRRS, therefore connecting two leads inside the socket together, is obviously not good. I don't have any gear that requires amping so it's not anything I'm experienced with.

Or, maybe I'm entirely wrong about that. I'm not even sure if a balanced output has four leads in it. Like I said I spent a few hours googling and asking around and that's the best I can figure. So yeah I'm literally just guessing, you'll have to do your own due diligence. If anyone can tell me whether this is right it wrong I'd really appreciate that.


----------



## Sam L

fonkepala said:


> Grats on the EM5 acquisition Sam! That aside, I'm interested to know the line of reasoning that you applied in plonking down $300 for it, especially since you're a seasoned earbuds user. Looking forward to your FR graphs pre- & post burn in & also your detailed impressions of it.



thanks for the compliment, but I'm still very new to the buds scene. I got into it because of the pandemic changed my listening habits. I no longer have to block out a loud train commute and I no longer have to isolate from loud coworkers with my IEMs. I also noticed that when working at home, I have to be able to hear things (kids fighting, wife, etc.). 

I went for the em5 because it was my birthday.    I was actually hoping to pick up an iem in the 300-450 range as a final purchase for some time but couldn't nail down something. My aq7's are returned because one side has issues. Since I didn't feel compelled to stay with the aq7, I decided to go for the em5. 

Another factor is the simple fact that there are a ton of great iems that just came out in the sub $160 market (nm2+, D02, etc). As a result I don't think I'm drawn to a high tier iem at the moment.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> Another factor is the simple fact that there are a ton of great iems that just came out in the sub $160 market (nm2+, D02, etc). As a result I don't think I'm drawn to a high tier iem at the moment.


Hopefully by 11/11/black friday, the newer iems have had enough time to weed out the bad so we know what is good or not.


----------



## fonkepala

Sam L said:


> thanks for the compliment, but I'm still very new to the buds scene. I got into it because of the pandemic changed my listening habits. I no longer have to block out a loud train commute and I no longer have to isolate from loud coworkers with my IEMs. I also noticed that when working at home, I have to be able to hear things (kids fighting, wife, etc.).
> 
> I went for the em5 because it was my birthday.    I was actually hoping to pick up an iem in the 300-450 range as a final purchase for some time but couldn't nail down something. My aq7's are returned because one side has issues. Since I didn't feel compelled to stay with the aq7, I decided to go for the em5.
> 
> Another factor is the simple fact that there are a ton of great iems that just came out in the sub $160 market (nm2+, D02, etc). As a result I don't think I'm drawn to a high tier iem at the moment.



Ah, I see. In that case, happy birthday @Sam L! As always, eagerly anticipating your upcoming thoughts on the EM5.


----------



## SciOC

Sam L said:


> thanks for the compliment, but I'm still very new to the buds scene. I got into it because of the pandemic changed my listening habits. I no longer have to block out a loud train commute and I no longer have to isolate from loud coworkers with my IEMs. I also noticed that when working at home, I have to be able to hear things (kids fighting, wife, etc.).
> 
> I went for the em5 because it was my birthday.    I was actually hoping to pick up an iem in the 300-450 range as a final purchase for some time but couldn't nail down something. My aq7's are returned because one side has issues. Since I didn't feel compelled to stay with the aq7, I decided to go for the em5.
> 
> Another factor is the simple fact that there are a ton of great iems that just came out in the sub $160 market (nm2+, D02, etc). As a result I don't think I'm drawn to a high tier iem at the moment.


I just got the Mofasest Trio ($500).  It's burning in... Still waiting on my stuff from the Ali sale but it's going to be hard going from the bass on the trio to any buds..... 

Only out of necessity for the same reasons you mentioned will I think I'll listen to the buds unless the smabat really blows away my expectations.


----------



## citral23

Lost quite a bit of interest lately cause I'm stuffed, just got the nicehck me80 out of curiosity and don't regret it, very nice budget buds, mids are much more balanced than on the ebx


----------



## fonkepala

citral23 said:


> Lost quite a bit of interest lately cause I'm stuffed, just got the nicehck me80 out of curiosity and don't regret it, very nice budget buds, mids are much more balanced than on the ebx



Long time no see  Yes, agreed that the ME80 is great value for money.


----------



## vygas

I'm not 100% sure if I've ever mentioned these buds on this thread but they were my go-to pair for a while, I call them the NSC Clear's. They use a red dot marked titanium plated driver that they also sell on their store but the price of the drivers is $2-3 more than getting the actual bud itself. I wasn't 100% confident with posting them here when I first got them but after some other people also got their pairs and liked them I've decided to bite the bullet. Here's the link for it :



Spoiler



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000808625788.html



Hopefully the people who order it like it as much as I and some others do. Also, happy birthday Mr. @Sam L, hope you enjoy that "little" gift you got for yourself , can't wait to hear what you think about them.


----------



## fonkepala

vygas said:


> I'm not 100% sure if I've ever mentioned these buds on this thread but they were my go-to pair for a while, I call them the NSC Clear's. They use a red dot marked titanium plated driver that they also sell on their store but the price of the drivers is $2-3 more than getting the actual bud itself. I wasn't 100% confident with posting them here when I first got them but after some other people also got their pairs and liked them I've decided to bite the bullet. Here's the link for it :
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Missing link


----------



## Nool

fonkepala said:


> Nice vertical EQ graph. What app/software did you use that has such a graph?


It's AIMP for Android, a pretty basic music player. It has fixed hz levels for it's EQ though and you have to nudge the graph around manually to get any more precise. I would prefer being able to set custom hz levels but I like AIMPs layout too much to leave it.


----------



## vygas

fonkepala said:


> Missing link


Should be fixed by now, sorry about that.


----------



## Sam L

fonkepala said:


> I'm not knowledgeable in reading/interpreting FR graphs. Can someone take a look at this and tell me their thoughts or how best to describe the sound signature that this graph implies?


If that graph is of an iem it will sound dynamically restricted with very little bass and dull sounding treble. 

If it's an earbud it'll tend to sound bright. 

Graphs are not necessarily predictable of the sound though. For examole the aq7 graph as if they would have strong bass with a v shaped sound overall. They don't have much bass and they are completely neutral sounding to my ears. Great sub-bass though.


----------



## Sam L (Sep 13, 2020)

The em5 came in early. I didn't even know that usps delivered on Sunday.

Initial impressions:
- I thought the cable would feel better, given fiio making a big deal on not going the mmcx route and prioritizing a "good" cable. It's fine, just not as premium feeling as I expected in what they are describing as a $160 cable.

- the bass is extraordinary, particularly for an earbud. I think iem users trying out the em5 will not recognize how impressive the bass is for a bud. Ear bud bass typically never approaches good IEM bass in speed, clarity and texture. The em5 does. (and surpasses some well regarded <$120 iems.

- it's a warm bud, with prominent mids. However because of the full spectrum detail/resolution, bloat is minimal.

- highs are laid back. Some tracks do not sound as sparkly as they should. This is, of course pre-burn in so this will likely change?


----------



## Sam L

200 hour burn in for the em5? 

Wow, that's what fiio is recommending. I'm curious, what earbuds have you guys tried that took awhile before they sounded optimal? 

In general I'm not a proponent of hardware burn-in. I do fully believe that brain burn-in is very real. I'll keep an open mind though.


----------



## baskingshark

Sam L said:


> The em5 came in early. I didn't even know that usps delivered on Sunday.
> 
> Initial impressions:
> - I thought the cable would feel better, given fiio making a big deal on not going the mmcx route and prioritizing a "good" cable. It's fine, just not as premium feeling as I expected in what they are describing as a $160 cable.
> ...



Nice, do u have other midfi/TOTL earbuds to compare them with? Wonder if u have any of the SMABATs to compare with, they are generally known for having good bass for a earbud. Look forward to your final EM5 impressions/review!

FWIW, $300 was too much for me to stomach in this covid economy for the EM5, especially when there are other big boys to compete with at that price, and the final nail in the coffin for me was the non detachable cables at that price. But so far impressions seem quite favourable for it.



Sam L said:


> 200 hour burn in for the em5?
> 
> Wow, that's what fiio is recommending. I'm curious, what earbuds have you guys tried that took awhile before they sounded optimal?
> 
> In general I'm not a proponent of hardware burn-in. I do fully believe that brain burn-in is very real. I'll keep an open mind though.



I do believe in burn in for DD type sets, but 200 hours burn in is really borderline scammish haha. I think they are hoping that maybe "brain burn in" will occur so everyone will love the signature after listening to it for so long, or perhaps a new CHIFI hypetrain would have come in the mail before the 200 hours is up, and attention will be given to the new toy that just arrived?


----------



## Sam L

baskingshark said:


> Nice, do u have other midfi/TOTL earbuds to compare them with? Wonder if u have any of the SMABATs to compare with, they are generally known for having good bass for a earbud. Look forward to your final EM5 impressions/review!
> 
> FWIW, $300 was too much for me to stomach in this covid economy for the EM5, especially when there are other big boys to compete with at that price, and the final nail in the coffin for me was the non detachable cables at that price. But so far impressions seem quite favourable for it.
> 
> ...



I don't have many midfi/totl earbuds and hopefully won't be adding to my collection because the price to value ratio is so high with earbuds and there are many sub $75 options that will bring joy. I wanted the em5 as an endgame purchase. (and partially to satisfy my curiosity). I figured as an amazon prime purchase, I have 30 days to get the em5 burned in and evaluated.

I have the smabat s-10s black/silver. I'm not impressed with them. They're decent. I've written about them before and described them as "uninspiring." I still hold to that description but after getting the em5 I can add some detail. The bass on the smabat is prodigious but sloppy and at times can be overwhelming. I think the worst thing about the Smabat was highlighted by my progression into buds. I went from various cheap buds to the yuin pk2, then the rambo ii. The thing that really grabbed me with buds is the soundstage, which I appreciate particularly as an avid classical music listener. After the rambo 2, I got the smabat and the sound stage on the smabats are anemic. I didn't really realize it at the time and found the rambo 2 taking much of my listening time. Enter the em5, which has a ridiculously large soundstage.

So far after a couple hours of listening to the em5, I walk away super impressed with the bass and the soundstage the most.


----------



## citral23 (Sep 14, 2020)

I don't doubt the EM5 are good but for me there is too much of the price that went to the cable, packaging and marketing.

Fiio themselves claim the cable is around 160$. And it's NOT replacable. You cannot resolder inside this shell, game over. 160$ cable for a 10-30$ driver? That's not a good way to maximize the important component here. From a rational pov, it's not a great way to spend money, given the transducer has much more impact than the cable will ever have. But Fiio said they made it for passion not really for rationality, it will for sure make some people happy, nothing wrong with that quite the opposite 

I'm just too... rational lol.

I have not followed since a long time now, did anything in the 80-150$ range stand out lately?

I have the Yincrow RW-1000 in that range but it's a lot of treble, looking for something less agressive


----------



## fokta

Sam L said:


> I don't have many midfi/totl earbuds and hopefully won't be adding to my collection because the price to value ratio is so high with earbuds and there are many sub $75 options that will bring joy. I wanted the em5 as an endgame purchase. (and partially to satisfy my curiosity). I figured as an amazon prime purchase, I have 30 days to get the em5 burned in and evaluated.
> 
> I have the smabat s-10s black/silver. I'm not impressed with them. They're decent. I've written about them before and described them as "uninspiring." I still hold to that description but after getting the em5 I can add some detail. The bass on the smabat is prodigious but sloppy and at times can be overwhelming. I think the worst thing about the Smabat was highlighted by my progression into buds. I went from various cheap buds to the yuin pk2, then the rambo ii. The thing that really grabbed me with buds is the soundstage, which I appreciate particularly as an avid classical music listener. After the rambo 2, I got the smabat and the sound stage on the smabats are anemic. I didn't really realize it at the time and found the rambo 2 taking much of my listening time. Enter the em5, which has a ridiculously large soundstage.
> 
> So far after a couple hours of listening to the em5, I walk away super impressed with the bass and the soundstage the most.


this got my attentions.. EM5... 
looking forward for your impression, especially compare to PK2...


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> The em5 came in early. I didn't even know that usps delivered on Sunday.
> 
> Initial impressions:
> - I thought the cable would feel better, given fiio making a big deal on not going the mmcx route and prioritizing a "good" cable. It's fine, just not as premium feeling as I expected in what they are describing as a $160 cable.
> ...


How is the fit? It looks really weird lol. Is the bass more sub or mid-bass focused?


----------



## fonkepala

Sam L said:


> I don't have many midfi/totl earbuds and hopefully won't be adding to my collection because the price to value ratio is so high with earbuds and there are many sub $75 options that will bring joy. I wanted the em5 as an endgame purchase. (and partially to satisfy my curiosity). I figured as an amazon prime purchase, I have 30 days to get the em5 burned in and evaluated.
> 
> I have the smabat s-10s black/silver. I'm not impressed with them. They're decent. I've written about them before and described them as "uninspiring." I still hold to that description but after getting the em5 I can add some detail. The bass on the smabat is prodigious but sloppy and at times can be overwhelming. I think the worst thing about the Smabat was highlighted by my progression into buds. I went from various cheap buds to the yuin pk2, then the rambo ii. The thing that really grabbed me with buds is the soundstage, which I appreciate particularly as an avid classical music listener. After the rambo 2, I got the smabat and the sound stage on the smabats are anemic. I didn't really realize it at the time and found the rambo 2 taking much of my listening time. Enter the em5, which has a ridiculously large soundstage.
> 
> So far after a couple hours of listening to the em5, I walk away super impressed with the bass and the soundstage the most.



Appreciate your input on the EM5. Can't wait to hear what you have to say about them after burn in. 

IIRC, ClieOS also recommended at least 200 hours of burn in on the EM5 https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ed-open-earbuds-fiio-em5.940465/post-15819813


----------



## fonkepala

Sam L said:


> If that graph is of an iem it will sound dynamically restricted with very little bass and dull sounding treble.
> 
> If it's an earbud it'll tend to sound bright.
> 
> Graphs are not necessarily predictable of the sound though. For examole the aq7 graph as if they would have strong bass with a v shaped sound overall. They don't have much bass and they are completely neutral sounding to my ears. Great sub-bass though.



It's for an earbud which I recently decided to buy. Bright, huh? Okay, will have to see


----------



## Sam L

fonkepala said:


> Appreciate your input on the EM5. Can't wait to hear what you have to say about them after burn in.
> 
> IIRC, ClieOS also recommended at least 200 hours of burn in on the EM5 https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ed-open-earbuds-fiio-em5.940465/post-15819813


OMG, he's recommending 200 to *300! *Gonna be awhile....


----------



## assassin10000

Sam L said:


> OMG, he's recommending 200 to *300! *Gonna be awhile....



Got an old dap or cellphone? I use one for burn-in with the jlab burn in file (mix of noise, sweeps & silence). I just let it play on repeat.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hbqv1xct0gleroh/JLab Audio Burn-In File.mp3?dl=0


----------



## mochill

https://www.taralabs.com/cascade-no...non of burn-in,effects on a microscopic level.


----------



## SciOC (Sep 14, 2020)

Sam L said:


> OMG, he's recommending 200 to *300! *Gonna be awhile....


Yep, Beryllium DDs and planars take the longest from my experience.  This big of a berry, especially if it's thick, will take a while to fully settle. 

The 7hz i99 I have probably was a 300 hour one so I'd expect that big boy to be similar or even worse.

Find yourself a relatively sound proof box to put them in too.  My damn cats keep disconnecting my power cables on my burn in DAP.


----------



## Sam L (Sep 14, 2020)

RikudouGoku said:


> How is the fit? It looks really weird lol. Is the bass more sub or mid-bass focused?


Fit is good considering how weird the design is. The flute is not centered on the bud, instead, it's offset towards the front. That keeps it away from creating any hotspots in the ear.

Hard to label it as sub or mid-bass focused. Sub-bass focus sounds paradoxical for any earbud since too much leaks out in the sub-bass region. But technically, I'd say lower-mid-bass focused.

The other aspect of the EM5 that complicates simple descriptions concerning it's sound profile is the clarity and texture of the bass. The entire bass area is so resolving and so well placed that it's easy to not describe the EM5 as solidly bass-centric. To be clear, the EM5 has ginormous bass presence but it's unlike any earbud I've heard. My guess is that every bud out there that purports to have legit sub-bass is likely to bleed up into the spectrum. However, I've not heard a bud with legitimate sub-bass other than the EM5.

The mids are warm and a bit forward. It took a while before I realized that the same definition found in the bass is also present in the mids. Again, very well placed and overall highlights the coherency of the EM5 as a whole.

 all these questions are making me think more critically than I'm used to when listening to iems/buds. starting to sound like bits and pieces of an actual review. lol


----------



## Sam L

fokta said:


> this got my attentions.. EM5...
> looking forward for your impression, especially compare to PK2...


One thing I'll say about the PK2. Though I do not particularly like the tuning (too warm), the driver is of high quality with solid technicalities and good soundstage. After listening to the me5 the sub-bass roll off of the PK2 is obvious, but every bud will sound sub-bass deficient against the em5. best to listen to an iem after the em5 or all your buds will be ruined.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> My guess is that every bud out there that purports to have legit sub-bass is likely to bleed up into the spectrum.


That is what I experienced with the He150 pro and the Turandot. Both sacrificed everything else for that bass, which to me is not good.


----------



## Sam L

citral23 said:


> I don't doubt the EM5 are good but for me there is too much of the price that went to the cable, packaging and marketing.
> 
> Fiio themselves claim the cable is around 160$. And it's NOT replacable. You cannot resolder inside this shell, game over. 160$ cable for a 10-30$ driver? That's not a good way to maximize the important component here. From a rational pov, it's not a great way to spend money, given the transducer has much more impact than the cable will ever have. But Fiio said they made it for passion not really for rationality, it will for sure make some people happy, nothing wrong with that quite the opposite
> 
> ...


my favorite in that range is the rambo 2, but I have to cut some of the lower mids to clean up the sound.


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> That is what I experienced with the He150 pro and the Turandot. Both sacrificed everything else for that bass, which to me is not good.


If there's a weakness I see so far, the EM5 does not have jaw dropping treble extension. But the detail is strong despite the graph not showing a strong treble presence. it reminds me of the ibasso it00, which to my ears have excellent detail retrieval, more so than their graph would indicate. The em5 has this characteristic. But to be clear, I'm speaking analogously. The em5 will never compete with iem detail retrieval.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> If there's a weakness I see so far, the EM5 does not have jaw dropping treble extension. But the detail is strong despite the graph not showing a strong treble presence. it reminds me of the ibasso it00, which to my ears have excellent detail retrieval, more so than their graph would indicate. The em5 has this characteristic. But to be clear, I'm speaking analogously. The em5 will never compete with iem detail retrieval.


Does it have as good timbre as some other buds? And how is the tonallity? I found the turandot to have quite bad timbre and tonally too bright.


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Does it have as good timbre as some other buds? And how is the tonallity? I found the turandot to have quite bad timbre and tonally too bright.


Keep in mind I just got these and still haven't put the EM5 through its paces. 

Timbre is good. Bass timbre is freekishly good. The ode to joy double bass solo in beethoven's ninth is accurate. Every bud I have ever heard does not accurately portray a double bass. Mids and treble also have good timbre. 

I won't speak to tonality just yet.


----------



## fonkepala

assassin10000 said:


> Got an old dap or cellphone? I use one for burn-in with the jlab burn in file (mix of noise, sweeps & silence). I just let it play on repeat.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/hbqv1xct0gleroh/JLab Audio Burn-In File.mp3?dl=0



I use that file for burn-in too. It's a good one. I put what I'm burning in inside a padded storage pouch, zip it up and then put the whole shebang inside a drawer. Else it bothers my cat & irritates the wife (not a good combo!).



Sam L said:


> If there's a weakness I see so far, the EM5 does not have jaw dropping treble extension. But the detail is strong despite the graph not showing a strong treble presence.



Is the EM5 as detailed as the ME80? j.k


----------



## dissociativity

soo, after getting my hands on the 1more e1008 earbud, I cannot un-hear that ceramic tweeter's treble, is there any good dual driver chi-fi earbuds out there?

As a heads up, the one Qian69 seller on Aliexpress is legit, but they will give you a fake tracking number before replacing it with a good one when they send late, and the Qian 69 are as incredible as reviews say, I plan on hoarding a couple more like a dragon.


----------



## Nool

@Kalli Got ahold of the QCY T3, it's pretty solid for $20, though the ergonomics aren't very good; I was expecting a tws earbud and instead it's more like a tws iem with bad fit. I'd either have them totally snug and isolating, or fitting loose in which they'd fall out of my ears. I coated them with silicone which helped a lot with that. Still, the fit isn't great, I do have small ears so maybe it's just me.

By my ears it has the same tuning as the QCY T5, which is a proper tws iem. Pretty solid subbass rumble, and rather bad treble rolloff. Probably not what you want for classical music; the bass does get much quieter while wearing them loose, but the treble rolloff really kills the air you want in orchestral pieces. This is more basshead type stuff. The subbass rumble is pretty impressive though.

Resolution and timbre are both pretty good, not the best but totally acceptable. Staging/imaging is average. The battery life is pretty good, I can easily get 5 hours of playtime, and the controls are a bit slow but still usable. Build quality seems fine.

Also there's only one pair of "earbud" tips included, and two pairs of tips that make it fit like an iem. They really shoulda included more tips. All in all though, after coating them with silicone I'm pretty happy with it and will keep using them. But you'll definitely want something with better treble extension for classical music, an iem is really the best way to go for that.


----------



## Sam L

fonkepala said:


> Is the EM5 as detailed as the ME80? j.k



In all honesty, the EM5 is not necessarily more detailed than the ME80. I mean, of course it is, but that's not what stands out against the ME80. It's the timbre of the EM5 that is one of its superpowers. The mids have a particular granularity that is exceptionally accurate. I would describe the impact of this as follows:

1. Oftentimes we describe detail as centered around the information that is conveyed to our ears beyond the fundamentals of whatever note is being articulated, frequencies that reside above the onset of the note. This includes overtones and transients.

2. Timbre, in my opinion, is affected by the quality of the onset note, coupled with the quality of the post-onset information that follows.

3. The EM5 is distinct beyond any earbud I have heard (and possibly iem) in producing really accurate timbre associated with the onset of notes.

4. Because the soundstage of the EM5 is so massive, we see a third factor contribute to the timbre of the EM5. Live orchestral music is conveyed with exceptional accuracy and the soundstage is presented with incredible accuracy as well -- not accuracy in placement but accuracy in how notes are conveyed post-onset with regard to transient information and the ambient acoustics associated with where the soloist/orchestra is playing.

I hope this makes sense. I just completed the entire Mozart Piano Cycle (perahia) and have been pondering why things sound so damn good on these buds.


----------



## fokta

This custom earbud from Local builder, Toxic Mod. using 15.4 EMX500 driver, really something... never miss using headphone or IEM.. 









The Thick Custom M2M, helps increase a bit the rumble detail... 



Felt so open... like open back headphone...


----------



## fonkepala

dissociativity said:


> As a heads up, the one Qian69 seller on Aliexpress is legit, but they will give you a fake tracking number before replacing it with a good one when they send late, and the Qian 69 are as incredible as reviews say, I plan on hoarding a couple more like a dragon.



I heard somewhere at the tail end of last year that the Qian 69 was getting harder to find. Is this true? There's only one Qian69 seller on AE now?




Sam L said:


> In all honesty, the EM5 is not necessarily more detailed than the ME80. I mean, of course it is, but that's not what stands out against the ME80. It's the timbre of the EM5 that is one of its superpowers. The mids have a particular granularity that is exceptionally accurate. I would describe the impact of this as follows:
> 
> 1. Oftentimes we describe detail as centered around the information that is conveyed to our ears beyond the fundamentals of whatever note is being articulated, frequencies that reside above the onset of the note. This includes overtones and transients.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the very detailed (no pun intended or implied) reply. Looks like the EM5 really is something special, then. In your opinion, how do the flutes affect its sound? Maybe the massive soundstage could be attributed to the flutes? O perhaps the impressive lower frequencies?


----------



## Sam L

fokta said:


> This custom earbud from Local builder, Toxic Mod. using 15.4 EMX500 driver, really something... never miss using headphone or IEM..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


very cool. is there a website for more info?


----------



## fokta (Sep 15, 2020)

Sam L said:


> very cool. is there a website for more info?


He only have facebook account..
https://www.facebook.com/zain.audiophile

His main specialist is repairing and customization (like changing 2 pin jack to MMCX etc). But he will accept the challenge if you dont like the sound signature.. 
like mine, already being revised 2 times..


----------



## Sam L

fonkepala said:


> Thanks for the very detailed (no pun intended or implied) reply. Looks like the EM5 really is something special, then. In your opinion, how do the flutes affect its sound? Maybe the massive soundstage could be attributed to the flutes? O perhaps the impressive lower frequencies?



I'm assuming the benefit is for the lower frequencies and perhaps also helps with the soundstage? One of these days, I'll dig out my ancient dslr and use the macro lens for some detailed pictures. At the bottom of the flutes you can see the vent/opening.


----------



## rkw

fonkepala said:


> how do the flutes affect its sound? Maybe the massive soundstage could be attributed to the flutes? O perhaps the impressive lower frequencies?


FiiO specifically said the flutes are for bass. See the EM5 thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-r-d-story-of-beryllium-plated-open-earbuds-fiio-em5.940465/


----------



## fonkepala

rkw said:


> FiiO specifically said the flutes are for bass. See the EM5 thread:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-r-d-story-of-beryllium-plated-open-earbuds-fiio-em5.940465/



Bass flutes it is then


----------



## baskingshark

Bought a second hand SMABAT ST10S Black Gold today. It has great technicalities like the ST10 predecessor but doesn't sound as dry. The Black Gold isn't as bright in the treble as the original, so maybe treble sensitive folks will like it more. It adds a bit more warmth too in having a very hefty subbass, the basshead in me is pleasantly surprised that the Black Gold has even more subbass than the original ST10, that's really quite amazing for a earbud. With amping, the subbass is really quite speaker like, but it is still quite accurate in bass movements in the midbass.

I think soundstage is a bit more intimate than the original ST10 and as the 150 ohm impedance suggest, the Black Gold needs amping, where it scales superbly. Don't run it from a low powered smartphone, it sounds very meh and is not doing the sound justice. This is my endgame earbud, for 2020 at least!


----------



## citral23 (Sep 16, 2020)

Hmm, given what clieos has to say about them, I may have to buy them too. Moreso as my open back headphones are failing apart and I'm tempted to replace them with buds, maybe not permanently at home but at least to travel light and still be able to do some mastering when away.

Was in the market for 80-100$ pair anyway, might as well stretch it a bit.

That gold cable tho.... Urgh

Edit: bought them for 111$ with coupons from nicehck


----------



## Sam L

bk2 came in. really nice bud, comfortable, no mid bloat. problem is i can't really give them a listen until i tire of the em5's


----------



## fokta (Sep 16, 2020)

This local Earbud using PK3 recable using local cable seller, Gendhis (Sugar)...

Really like the whole presentation...
Sound sig Warm...


----------



## Kalli

Nool said:


> @Kalli Got ahold of the QCY T3, it's pretty solid for $20, though the ergonomics aren't very good; I was expecting a tws earbud and instead it's more like a tws iem with bad fit. I'd either have them totally snug and isolating, or fitting loose in which they'd fall out of my ears. I coated them with silicone which helped a lot with that. Still, the fit isn't great, I do have small ears so maybe it's just me.
> 
> By my ears it has the same tuning as the QCY T5, which is a proper tws iem. Pretty solid subbass rumble, and rather bad treble rolloff. Probably not what you want for classical music; the bass does get much quieter while wearing them loose, but the treble rolloff really kills the air you want in orchestral pieces. This is more basshead type stuff. The subbass rumble is pretty impressive though.
> 
> ...


Sorry for the late response and thanks a lot for your thoughts.

I decided to go for wired IEMs +  wireless adapter for sound quality and isolation reasons.
I really like the Moondrop Starfield and ThieAudio Legend 3, but the L3 fit way better.


----------



## fonkepala

Sam L said:


> bk2 came in. really nice bud, comfortable, no mid bloat. problem is i can't really give them a listen until i tire of the em5's



And therein lies the rub


----------



## Sam L

fonkepala said:


> And therein lies the rub


Exactly! 90 hours in the process of burning in the em5's. I switched to balance into the qudelix 5k. Noticeablely better imaging and separation, though slight. Not any difference between this and running 3.5mm into the v60. 

But still nice to know that the easy-to-swap plugs will get used. I think I much prefer swapping plugs than swapping cables.


----------



## jao29

Can anyone help me regarding the mmcx connectors of the smabat m2 pro? I do not know which one is the left and right cables for the earphones. There is a red ring around the cables, does that mean the right side? Or the left side for the earphones? Thanks


----------



## assassin10000

Typically red is for right and blue, white or clear for left.

You can always plug one side in and set sound balance to full left or right to determine which side is which or even test continuity with a multimeter.


----------



## FlowLikeWater (Sep 17, 2020)

Sam L said:


> In all honesty, the EM5 is not necessarily more detailed than the ME80. I mean, of course it is, but that's not what stands out against the ME80. It's the timbre of the EM5 that is one of its superpowers. The mids have a particular granularity that is exceptionally accurate. I would describe the impact of this as follows:
> 
> 1. Oftentimes we describe detail as centered around the information that is conveyed to our ears beyond the fundamentals of whatever note is being articulated, frequencies that reside above the onset of the note. This includes overtones and transients.
> 
> ...



i found this too, EM5 is absurdly engaging with wood instruments/classical/orchestral pieces/vocals

pretty sure i listened to sun and moon - tsfh alone at least 80 times in the past 2 weeks on these....

all things must have a tradeoff tho  in this case it is electro music, this genre needs its subbass lol. i prefer natural instruments/vocals so EM5 is an incontrovertible win for me, all depends on ur preferences tho, ymmv

thnx for ur impressions, enjoying reading other people's opinions and comparisons a lot


----------



## Sam L

FlowLikeWater said:


> i found this too, EM5 is absurdly engaging with wood instruments/classical/orchestral pieces/vocals
> 
> pretty sure i listened to sun and moon - tsfh alone at least 80 times in the past 2 weeks on these....
> 
> ...


Just listened to that track. It's perfect for showcasing the strengths of the em5, a very addicting playback.


----------



## LordZero

Anyone know a good/cheap Earbud with a mic? I have been using a bk2 everyday at home and would love a alternative with mic.

I know I can change the mmcx, but I love the original mmcx (not sticky and very flexible) also some mmcx I have found have earhooks.


----------



## SiggyFraud (Sep 18, 2020)

LordZero said:


> Anyone know a good/cheap Earbud with a mic? I have been using a bk2 everyday at home and would love a alternative with mic.
> 
> I know I can change the mmcx, but I love the original mmcx (not sticky and very flexible) also some mmcx I have found have earhooks.


Nicehck B40 and Traceless both come with mics. Vidos do too, if you're looking for something really cheap. Also Headroom MS16.


----------



## Sam L

LordZero said:


> Anyone know a good/cheap Earbud with a mic? I have been using a bk2 everyday at home and would love a alternative with mic.
> 
> I know I can change the mmcx, but I love the original mmcx (not sticky and very flexible) also some mmcx I have found have earhooks.


The stock bk2 cable is one of the better ones among the bargain buds. I'd keep them as well.


----------



## citral23

I have settled for the B40 as mic'ed buds for my confcalls and they do the job fine, not excellent buds by any means but nothing wrong for casual youtube browsing and such either. People seem to hear me clearly in calls. Comfortable and fine cable, average in everything else.


----------



## Sam L

citral23 said:


> I have settled for the B40 as mic'ed buds for my confcalls and they do the job fine, not excellent buds by any means but nothing wrong for casual youtube browsing and such either. People seem to hear me clearly in calls. Comfortable and fine cable, average in everything else.


The b40 are great buds. Mine have some signicant channel variation though. 

Agreed, good mic on them.


----------



## baskingshark

Bought a Tingo TC200 at $4 USD from Shopee.





Comes with a soft pouch and 3 pairs of foams tips. Good price to performance ratio. It has a warm mild V shaped smooth sound. Scales with amping, but can be driven from a smartphone.

Very good soundstage, this is one of the better soundstages in a earbud. Imaging is surprisingly good at this sub $10 bracket. Other areas of technicalities are average at best. Not the most detailed or clear, but nothing to sniff at since it costs 4 bucks. Instrument separation can get a bit messy with complex tracks.

Mids are slightly recessed and as a result upper mids are not hot at all, with some higher treble rolloff (which is good for treble sensitive folks). But trebleheads and those wanting some sparkle and airiness might need to look elsewhere. Subbass is not as extended as IEMs, but is quite good for a earbud, midbass has quite good punch and thump with surprisingly minimal midbass bleed and is quite tight. 

The bad part is timbre is weak for acoustic instruments compared to some other buds, they sound a bit "glassy" and don't sound as natural to me.

Price to performance ratio is there, but the timbre loses points for me. I value timbre highly for my music, so this set gets 3/5 for me. Perhaps using it with genres without acoustic instruments, it might be a killer, but for classical and jazz type aficionados, it might be an area of contention. I'm gonna burn it in now, but I don't think the timbre is gonna change with burn in unfortunately, if it doesn't sound like a flute, it doesn't. Can't complain for 4 bucks though.


----------



## citral23

Haha last time I was around you were discovering buds now you've caught the virus, still using iems?


----------



## baskingshark (Sep 18, 2020)

citral23 said:


> Haha last time I was around you were discovering buds now you've caught the virus, still using iems?



Yeah still using IEMs outdoors for their isolation, but indoors mostly earbuds cause of their better soundstage. Thanks for introducing us to buds.

Welcome back friend!


----------



## citral23 (Sep 18, 2020)

Cool, I've used almost exclusively my toneking TO400 for a while now, TO180 and 200 now and then. Having a bit of spare time I did a quick listen of my cheap stuff today and I know why 

Altho the RY4s kind of holds its own for the price and I've yet to find something as neutral as the moondrop nameless (but the lack of bass extension is rather bothersome even for a neutral head)

Looking forward for the Smabat black/gold, especially as it'll be my first over-ear bud.


----------



## cenizas

baskingshark said:


> Bought a Tingo TC200 at $4 USD from Shopee.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have a pair too, entirely agree with your impressions, felt similarly about the timbre before and also after burn in. Technicalities are alright though, overall, not for me but decent for the price.


----------



## fonkepala

Sam L said:


> The stock bk2 cable is one of the better ones among the bargain buds. I'd keep them as well.



Agreed. The BK2 cable is a gem among the ~$20 earbuds.



baskingshark said:


> Bought a Tingo TC200 at $4 USD from Shopee.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This one has been hyped up quite a lot recently on Facebook. FWIW, there are reports saying that this is actually called the Tingo TG38s, not the TC200. Something to do with leftover cables and/or confusing naming conventions. See here.



citral23 said:


> Altho the RY4s kind of holds its own for the price and I've yet to find something as neutral as the moondrop nameless (but the lack of bass extension is rather bothersome even for a neutral head)



You mean the RY4S UE or the RY4S Plus/MMCX?


----------



## fokta

Found out, quite surprise by a lot of Customed local Earbud. Even how it can be vary in Tuning, tonality & Soundstage... 

The smoothest


The deepest bass, felt to the chest... 


The musical... 


The vocal

The soundstage



Half of it, I just quick impression check, for my tonality preferences, warm....


----------



## Nool

Sam L said:


> bk2 came in. really nice bud, comfortable, no mid bloat. problem is i can't really give them a listen until i tire of the em5's


I hope you measure the bk2, I keep moving back between it and the rambo2, not sure which one I like more. To my ears the Rambo2 has better treble extension, though I'm not sure just how much. Would be nice to see visually what's going on.


----------



## Sam L

Nool said:


> I hope you measure the bk2, I keep moving back between it and the rambo2, not sure which one I like more. To my ears the Rambo2 has better treble extension, though I'm not sure just how much. Would be nice to see visually what's going on.


I'll sit down and measure the bk2 and the em5 this weekend.


----------



## citral23

fonkepala said:


> You mean the RY4S UE or the RY4S Plus/MMCX?



UE


----------



## fonkepala

citral23 said:


> UE



Great. I like my RY4S UE a fair bit as well.


----------



## fonkepala (Sep 19, 2020)

A quick word on the K's Nameless. My early impression of them is that they're *bloody fantastic*! I started auditioning them 2 nights ago and have yet to switch to any other buds. Prior to that, I was using my old VE Monk + (for nostalgia's sake) and right off the bat I could perceive that the K's Nameless sounded more energetic & lively using the same upstream gear & source. Everything sounds just so *right* with the K's Nameless. When I use them, I stopped fiddling around with my gear, my playlists (stopped skipping tracks and saying 'nah these don't work with this music genre), etc. I just leave everything be & started enjoying the music more (something we should all probably do?).

TL;DR The K's Nameless are just very great sounding buds! I have yet to find a glaring shortcoming with them...in fact, it's pretty safe to say I think that they might not have any. Subtle ones, perhaps yes...but they're not overly glaring.

For the price I paid (south of USD$2), pretty bang for buck I'd say! I recommend anyone on the fence about getting the K's Nameless to just go ahead & buy 'em. These deserved to be hyped more, IMHO.

Of course, YMMV.


----------



## citral23

I think we all have a phase we "tinker" a lot swapping sources, earphones, trying amping, balanced unbalanced it's normal got to reach a satisfying point and make the best pairings (ie I only like my to600 well powered and on the balanced output of my DSD pro because it acts like a HPF and I'm not into eq)

But once settled and conclusions made (like for me amps bring nothing) it's time to sit back and enjoy our best setups and let the music flow.


----------



## DatOrbitDude (Sep 19, 2020)

fonkepala said:


> A quick word on the K's Nameless. My early impression of them is that they're *bloody fantastic*! I started auditioning them 2 nights ago and have yet to switch to any other buds. Prior to that, I was using my old VE Monk + (for nostalgia's sake) and right off the bat I could perceive that the K's Nameless sounded more energetic & lively using the same upstream gear & source. Everything sounds just so *right* with the K's Nameless. When I use them, I stopped fiddling around with my gear, my playlists (stopped skipping tracks and saying 'nah these don't work with this music genre), etc. I just leave everything be & started enjoying the music more (something we should all probably do?).
> 
> TL;DR The K's Nameless are just very great sounding buds! I have yet to find a glaring shortcoming with them...in fact, it's pretty safe to say I think that they might not have any. Subtle ones, perhaps yes...but they're not overly glaring.
> 
> ...



For clarification, are those these?? https://shopee.ph/product/43253829/5851316853?smtt=0.0.9

Also what is its sound signature, notable traits and how does it compare to vido/sharp md?


----------



## Sam L

fonkepala said:


> A quick word on the K's Nameless. My early impression of them is that they're *bloody fantastic*! I started auditioning them 2 nights ago and have yet to switch to any other buds. Prior to that, I was using my old VE Monk + (for nostalgia's sake) and right off the bat I could perceive that the K's Nameless sounded more energetic & lively using the same upstream gear & source. Everything sounds just so *right* with the K's Nameless. When I use them, I stopped fiddling around with my gear, my playlists (stopped skipping tracks and saying 'nah these don't work with this music genre), etc. I just leave everything be & started enjoying the music more (something we should all probably do?).
> 
> TL;DR The K's Nameless are just very great sounding buds! I have yet to find a glaring shortcoming with them...in fact, it's pretty safe to say I think that they might not have any. Subtle ones, perhaps yes...but they're not overly glaring.
> 
> ...


100% agree although I had to pay $9 (including shipping). Fantastic buds and easily top 5 material under $25.


----------



## Sam L (Sep 19, 2020)

I promised earlier to graph the em5 (at 140 hours burn-in) and bk2. No commentary at this time since I'm headed out the door for a weekend hike!


----------



## fonkepala

DatOrbitDude said:


> For clarification, are those these?? https://shopee.ph/product/43253829/5851316853?smtt=0.0.9
> 
> Also what is its sound signature, notable traits and how does it compare to vido/sharp md?



Yes, it's exactly the one in the link. I'm still very early on in my usage of the Nameless, and it's been a while since I've listened to the Sharp MD. Will need some more time before I can give detailed comparisons. All I can say for now is that the Nameless sounds really good. The specific nuances will have to come later.



Sam L said:


> 100% agree although I had to pay $9 (including shipping). Fantastic buds and easily top 5 material under $25.



I'm glad you agree Sam.



Sam L said:


> I promised earlier to graph the em5 (at 140 hours burn-in) and bk2. No commentary at this time since I'm headed out the door for a weekend hike!



Interesting! Right away one can see the EM5 has more bass quantity than the BK2 (which is pretty bass-shy, IMO). Hmm, is that 3k-ish spike bothersome?


----------



## Nool

Sam L said:


> I promised earlier to graph the em5 (at 140 hours burn-in) and bk2. No commentary at this time since I'm headed out the door for a weekend hike!


Heh, goes to show what my ears are worth, looks like the bk2's tuning is pretty on point. It has the same ~12db dip between 8-12khz as the Rambo2. Guess I'll have to keep a/b'ing these, bk2 has better timbre across the mids while rambo2 has a more controlled treble, oddly enough.

Gotta say though for $20 the bk2 is a solid value, especially considering it comes with a quality mmcx cable.

Thanks for posting these graphs! Much appreciated.


----------



## Sam L

Nool said:


> Heh, goes to show what my ears are worth, looks like the bk2's tuning is pretty on point. It has the same ~12db dip between 8-12khz as the Rambo2. Guess I'll have to keep a/b'ing these, bk2 has better timbre across the mids while rambo2 has a more controlled treble, oddly enough.
> 
> Gotta say though for $20 the bk2 is a solid value, especially considering it comes with a quality mmcx cable.
> 
> Thanks for posting these graphs! Much appreciated.


Yeah, the cable is exceptional for this price point. Pretty much on par with what came with my ibasso it00 and way better than the kz/cca cable I got with the ca16.

Re: graph vs reality in SQ. Fairly common to see a striking diff between what we hear vs see on the graph. For example, my graph of the aq7 lines up with audiosense, but they do not sound V-shaped at all, more df/neutral.


----------



## cqtek

Hello.

Today I have the pleasure of presenting a review of some historical earbuds. They are the Sunrise Dragon 2 Limited Edition (SWD2LE) 10th Anniversary.
These are my impressions about them. I hope you like them.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/su...h-anniversary.24649/reviews#item-review-24352


----------



## Sam L

Nool said:


> Heh, goes to show what my ears are worth, looks like the bk2's tuning is pretty on point. It has the same ~12db dip between 8-12khz as the Rambo2. Guess I'll have to keep a/b'ing these, bk2 has better timbre across the mids while rambo2 has a more controlled treble, oddly enough.
> 
> Gotta say though for $20 the bk2 is a solid value, especially considering it comes with a quality mmcx cable.
> 
> Thanks for posting these graphs! Much appreciated.


One of the things I'm staring to value is the ability of a buds driver to handle eq adjustments. Most of the sub $9 distort easily when implementing eq adjustments. The Rambo 2 and em5 respond well, the Pk2 also can take quite a bit of adjustment without any negative impact on the SQ.


----------



## Sam L

Are there any excel/spreadsheet experts here who might want to work with me on a project involving making custom eq profiles for wavelet for some of the popular buds often mentioned here?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> Are there any excel/spreadsheet experts here who might want to work with me on a project involving making custom eq profiles for wavelet for some of the popular buds often mentioned here?


Here you go, thats my database template (you can delete the earbud ranking page if you want and the EQ settings are mine but should give you an example on how to do it).

(hopefully you can open/download the file.)

You should be able to import it into either excel/google-sheet and then publish it.


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Here you go, thats my database template (you can delete the earbud ranking page if you want and the EQ settings are mine but should give you an example on how to do it).
> 
> (hopefully you can open/download the file.)
> 
> You should be able to import it into either excel/google-sheet and then publish it.


Wow thx! I'm still away from my computer but I'll take a look later.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> Wow thx! I'm still away from my computer but I'll take a look later.


NP, you can also publish it with a link that let's others edit the page too if you want to. 

Or if you want it for yourself you can just give view only permissions instead.


----------



## deama (Sep 20, 2020)

Hello,

I'm looking for the best earbuds. I like bass a lot, but I also like there to be treble.
So far I've tried various kinds of earbuds, however the best ones seem to be the apple earpods, they even sound better than my audio technica M20X, if I apply the EQ curve from here:
https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/oratory1990/harman_in-ear_2019v2/Apple EarPods

Anyway, are there any better ones? I'm currently eyeing the Yuin PK1.


----------



## Sam L

deama said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm looking for the best earbuds. I like bass a lot, but I also like there to be treble.
> So far I've tried various kinds of earbuds, however the best ones seem to be the apple earpods, they even sound better than my audio technica M20X, if I apply the EQ curve from here:
> ...


Fiio em5, but you need to burn them in for 200 hours before evaluating them.


----------



## deama

Sam L said:


> Fiio em5, but you need to burn them in for 200 hours before evaluating them.


I guess I can just leave them on for several nights. Any idea how they compare with the Yuin PK1?


----------



## Sam L

I don't have the pk1, just the Pk2.


----------



## deama

Sam L said:


> I don't have the pk1, just the Pk2.


How do the Fiio em5 compare to the Pk2?


----------



## SiggyFraud

I think I just found the K's Nameless for less than 4 bucks, which is half of what other AE stores are asking.
Here's the link, if anyone wants to pick up a pair. I sure will


----------



## fonkepala

SiggyFraud said:


> I think I just found the K's Nameless for less than 4 bucks, which is half of what other AE stores are asking.
> Here's the link, if anyone wants to pick up a pair. I sure will



Those look identical to mine. You should, they sound great.


----------



## baskingshark

fonkepala said:


> Those look identical to mine. You should, they sound great.



Can u compare the K Nameless to any of the common sub $20 earbuds?


----------



## assassin10000

deama said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm looking for the best earbuds. I like bass a lot, but I also like there to be treble.
> So far I've tried various kinds of earbuds, however the best ones seem to be the apple earpods, they even sound better than my audio technica M20X, if I apply the EQ curve from here:
> ...



Budget? What kind of sound do you consider 'best'? What have you tried?

ST-10S black gold & EM5 are two more recent standouts. 


The PK1 has been around for a while, I haven't heard it. I did have an original PK2 which was good but warmer than I personally prefer.


----------



## axhng

Seeing the recent posts on the K's Nameless made me wish i kept it in my cart last week when I ordered some stuff, took it out because already have the KBEAR Stellar and some DIY MX500 with mmcx in the order and didn't want more MX500 shell earbuds around.   Seems like it's a warm sounding pair of earbuds from what I can understand from this review using the auto-translate feature.


----------



## RikudouGoku

SiggyFraud said:


> I think I just found the K's Nameless for less than 4 bucks, which is half of what other AE stores are asking.
> Here's the link, if anyone wants to pick up a pair. I sure will


That is a very good price...feel a bit scammed buying it from niceHCK for like 9 usd lol. (1 pair)

just an FIY: the included foams are garbage, they instantly tear with the slightest force. So you need to use your own foams (not a problem for most of you I guess lol).


----------



## stimuz

RikudouGoku said:


> That is a very good price...feel a bit scammed buying it from niceHCK for like 9 usd lol. (1 pair)
> 
> just an FIY: the included foams are garbage, they instantly tear with the slightest force. So you need to use your own foams (not a problem for most of you I guess lol).



$5 shipping for me


----------



## RikudouGoku

stimuz said:


> $5 shipping for me


Yeah, 9 usd for the buds only. I ordered a lot of stuff so I paid extra for dhl express too.


----------



## fonkepala (Sep 21, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Can u compare the K Nameless to any of the common sub $20 earbuds?



I sure can, although not right now. Am up to my neck in stuff to do, mostly work related and an important upcoming interview. Will post in detail later (probably next week) when I have the time. My apologies. Do remind me about it if I seem to have forgotten.



axhng said:


> Seems like it's a warm sounding pair of earbuds from what I can understand from this review using the auto-translate feature.




Strange. To my ears, the K's Nameless is quite a far cry from being warm.


----------



## fonkepala

Also, a PSA: if anyone encounters an earbud that's labelled as '*Sennheiser MX385i*', please be aware that it's actually a *counterfeit* product.


----------



## fonkepala (Sep 21, 2020)

Have some free time to kill so I'll add a bit more on the subject. The K's Nameless have a surprising level of detail & clarity for the price. They are very forward-sounding. Lively, which I think I've mentioned before. Timbre from instruments sounds natural. Dexter Gordon's sax sounds oh-so-right. Drums, percussion: I can hear how light/hard the drummer is hitting the leather and with what kind of sticks. Cymbals and high hats sound as they should. Strings and woodwinds are perfect. No sibilance or treble that's too hot that I can detect. Bass is adequately extended with good speed. Freddy Mercury's vocals hit me like they always do. Female vocals too, Adele's voice on 'One & Only' has got me nodding my head & truly enjoying the music. IIRC, there was one J-pop song with very complex arrangements on which it all sounded a bit all over the place, but I have an inkling that has more to do with the track rather than the earbuds themselves.

I perceived a wider soundstage & better separation with the iFi Zen DAC. With the Stoner Acoustics UD130, the K's Nameless sounded more intimate. I haven't paired it with the Mojo yet, but I will and I think it will blow me away even more then. So yeah, as with most things, upstream gear in the chain will probably play a substantial part. I didn't drive the K's Nameless directly from my phone and I don't intend to. For those who do, YMMV.

I'm confident I can get the same kind of impression and emotion with some other buds, but in all probability they'll cost more. I'm 100% certain the K's Nameless isn't the first bud to have tick marks in most of the boxes that I care about. It's just that, for the price I paid, I'm just absolutely astounded. Also I'm sure there's some little nuances to the K's Nameless that I'm ignoring or missing out on entirely, but with my gear and to my ears, they just sound so right. There's no other way I can put it.

Yet another highlight of my recent purchases. I have had the K's Nameless jammed in my ears for nigh going on 3-4 days already. I have the K's LBBs waiting in the wings, waiting to be auditioned. The LBBs cost ~ 20-25 times more than the K's Nameless. FWIW, I'm absolutely in no rush to switch to the LBBs. I guess that's saying something.


----------



## deama (Sep 21, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Budget? What kind of sound do you consider 'best'? What have you tried?
> 
> ST-10S black gold & EM5 are two more recent standouts.
> 
> ...


Budget doesn't really matter, I'm looking for the highest end earbuds possible.
So far the apple earpods have been the best for me, the previous best have been the edifier H180 but they lacked bass, whereas the earpods have good bass, even compared to my audio technica M20X headphones.
I've been trying to find high-end earbuds but have been out of luck until I stumbled upon this forum and found ones over £100+, but donno which ones to get.

Not really sure what I want, but some of the problems with the apple earpods I have is that when sound gets very loud and/or very fast, it tends to seem to have some problems, I can pick up some audio glitches, I'd prefer if this wasn't there. I'd also like a bit more bass? I'm aware that the apple earpods roll off on bass below 100hz, but are there earbuds that roll off at 50hz or so? The treble on the apple earpods seem fine, best I've heard, so no clue if it can get better.

Keep in mind I'm new to the audiophile thing, the bestest music I've experienced is from my audio technica m20x headphones, but even then the apple earpods I would say are actually better.

And yes, I have a dedicated DAC, the Focusrite Scarlett Solo 3rd Gen.


----------



## RikudouGoku

New smabat buds.

Smabat EP01: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001457981527.html

Smabat JC01: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001457838181.html


----------



## assassin10000

deama said:


> Budget doesn't really matter, I'm looking for the highest end earbuds possible.
> So far the apple earpods have been the best for me, the previous best have been the edifier H180 but they lacked bass, whereas the earpods have good bass, even compared to my audio technica M20X headphones.
> I've been trying to find high-end earbuds but have been out of luck until I stumbled upon this forum and found ones over £100+, but donno which ones to get.
> 
> ...



Then sounds like you need to narrow down what you prefer in sound signature then choose a high end bud that matches it.

Simphonio, K's, Rose, dqsm, shozy, cypherus and others all make great buds but they may not exactly cater to your preferences.


If you don't have small ears that only like small diameter buds, I'd recommend trying the ME80, RY4S UE, Yincrow RW-9 or other well regarded buds to narrow down your likes and dislikes. Most are sub $20.


As far as bass roll off, some buds don't roll off bass hard below 100-150hz. Rose Maria has a dual driver setup and it is much larger than most, the Smabat ST-10s (black gold) has an interesting tuned port and reaches deep and by all reports the Fiio EM5 also has excellent low end performance. Then there is the dqsm turandot, shozy bk, simphonio swd2+, K's Bell Ti and even tuned to your request high end buds (which I've heard can be $5-600).


----------



## mochill




----------



## axhng

fonkepala said:


> Strange. To my ears, the K's Nameless is quite a far cry from being warm.



The review is for the KBEAR stellar actually. Not sure if I'll like it since normally I prefer less warm sounding buds, but well, it's super cheap too. I'll just wait till the next round of purchase to grab the k's probably. Haha. Thanks for the review!


----------



## axhng (Sep 21, 2020)

RikudouGoku said:


> New smabat buds.
> 
> Smabat EP01: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001457981527.html
> 
> Smabat JC01: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001457838181.html



they looks like these... just way more expensive?

https://shopee.sg/JCALLY-EP01-Vocal...ds-with-OFC-3.5mm-cable-i.66630848.5051988356

https://shopee.sg/JCALLY-JC10-15.4m...e-Classic-female-poison-i.66630848.6751986543

edit: ended up ordering them anyway. lol. KBEAR Stellar should be arriving today.


----------



## Sam L

anyone using wavelet with their buds?


----------



## assassin10000

Sam L said:


> anyone using wavelet with their buds?



I do.


----------



## Sam L (Sep 21, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> I do.


Ok cool, then there's at least one person besides myself who will have some interest in my observations then. 

For those of you not aware, wavelet is an android app that implements compensation files for some 2.5k headphones and earphones.

A couple things to note:
- the autoeq feature doesn't always give good results. Every driver is different and responds to equalization differently. Buds in particular can distort easily but some buds respond well to EQ changes.

- previously, wavelet had an "all or nothing" approach for compensation which made things even more challenging for earbuds because of the tendency for distortion.

- the current wavelet release allows the user to set autoeq strength. This is huge for earbud users.

The process of translating graphs into autoeq compensation files is tedious. Well, more of a pain setting things up initially since I'm not a programmer (i had to try 4 diff python releases before getting things to work.)

I just made an autoeq file for my em5's.

I'm thinking of making a bunch of wavelet files for popular buds. Let me know if this would interest anyone. It's likely that many value buds will only take 25 to 40% strength but it should still clean up the overall sound profile noticeably.


----------



## assassin10000 (Sep 22, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Ok cool, then there's at least one person besides myself who will have some interest in my observations then.
> 
> For those of you not aware, wavelet is an android app that implements compensation files for some 2.5k headphones and earphones.
> 
> ...



There may be others but they may not frequent this thread.

A bunch more use the app on the TWS thread. Only works on Android 9.0+ and the app needs to send a signal that it is playing for Wavelet to work. Fortunately it is free for the Auto EQ & 9-band. If the AutoEQ doesn't sound right to you, you can compensate by using the 9-band at the same time. (I bought the app for the additional bass tuner.)



Neat. I'd be interested in what it took to do so.

Have you come up with your own 'FR' curve to compensate to or are you using the Harman Curve (and if so what year)?


Also part of the problem with the current AutoEQ profiles is the lack of consistency in how earbuds are measured. Many earbud FR source graphs do not come close to how the buds actually sound when in the ear, especially when compared to headphones and IEMs.


----------



## axhng

Just received the KBEAR Stellar. Pretty nice actually. Initial impression is that sounds like a warmer version of the Traceless basically. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ More mid bass and fuller sounding lower mids, but more relaxed and smoother upper mids and treble. So just a matter of personal preference I guess. I'm not much of a basshead, so still like the traceless more.

Oh, build and cable is pretty much identical to the traceless/Vido.


----------



## Sam L (Sep 22, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> There may be others but they may not frequent this thread.
> 
> A bunch more use the app on the TWS thread. Only works on Android 9.0+ and the app needs to send a signal that it is playing for Wavelet to work. Fortunately it is free for the Auto EQ & 9-band. If the AutoEQ doesn't sound right to you, you can compensate by using the 9-band at the same time. (I bought the app for the additional bass tuner.)
> 
> ...


ahh... forgot about the tws group. I think I'll build a compensation file for my 1000xm3's and post the file there.  nm, it's already in the database. lol

I use the innerfidelity_harman_in-ear_2019v2 curve.

re: inconsistency in measuring buds and how buds actually sound, the files I compile will most likely need to be further adjusted to user preference. I think that a buds target curve will eventually need to be put together. (though I'm not sure if that will ever happen.)


----------



## mochill

Any other app like wavelet?


----------



## Sam L

mochill said:


> Any other app like wavelet?


not that I've seen, though, as you can imagine, there are a ton of eq apps for android


----------



## assassin10000

If you are rooted (or can root) you could try Viper4Android.


----------



## onedvt

Sam L said:


> Ok cool, then there's at least one person besides myself who will have some interest in my observations then.
> 
> For those of you not aware, wavelet is an android app that implements compensation files for some 2.5k headphones and earphones.
> 
> ...


I use it for my TWS, and as someone who isn't fluent in EQ literature I would definitely use it for earbuds. Would be such a valuable feature. I hope this takes off.


----------



## RikudouGoku

FIY: the new smabat buds I posted is actually technically not made by smabat, but is actually JCALLY buds that they are selling. Thanks to @ClieOS for letting me know. 




First time I have seen anyone actually using the "female poison" thing I heard @baskingshark talk about lol.


----------



## SiggyFraud

RikudouGoku said:


> FIY: the new smabat buds I posted is actually technically not made by smabat, but is actually JCALLY buds that they are selling. Thanks to @ClieOS for letting me know.
> 
> 
> First time I have seen anyone actually using the "female poison" thing I heard @baskingshark talk about lol.


I'm more interested in the EP01 with their 16mm driver.
I wonder if there's such thing as Smabat house sound, that these could be a budget sample of? I never tried Smabat gear, but would liketo give it a try.


----------



## RikudouGoku

SiggyFraud said:


> I'm more interested in the EP01 with their 16mm driver.
> I wonder if there's such thing as Smabat house sound, that these could be a budget sample of? I never tried Smabat gear, but would liketo give it a try.


The EP01 is actually made by JCALLY too, so both the EP01 and JC10 are not made by Smabat.


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> FIY: the new smabat buds I posted is actually technically not made by smabat, but is actually JCALLY buds that they are selling. Thanks to @ClieOS for letting me know.
> 
> 
> First time I have seen anyone actually using the "female poison" thing I heard @baskingshark talk about lol.



Get ready for a shouty upper mids/lower treble if their "female poison" designation is legit.
I'll give it a miss as such!


----------



## baskingshark (Sep 22, 2020)

Credit to @Dcell7 and @RikudouGoku from other threads, look like there's a earbud lucky bag on Aliexpress now:









The MMCX detachable part rules out quite a few TOTL non detachable buds. So of the MMCX detachable type earbuds with metal shells at $99 USD, I think possibilities could be:
1) Yincrow RW-1000
2) Yincrow RW-1000 bass vesion
3) Smabat ST-10S (Black silver). Unlikely to be Black gold as it is usually above $99 USD
4) TONEKING MusicMaker TY2  - credit to @lgcubana 

Any other possibilities??

It might be cheaper with coupons too. Hmm, I just bought the SMABAT ST10S Black gold, I think my wife will kill me if I buy another expensive earbud in such a short period!


----------



## XP_98 (Sep 22, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Then sounds like you need to narrow down what you prefer in sound signature then choose a high end bud that matches it.
> 
> Simphonio, K's, Rose, dqsm, shozy, cypherus and others all make great buds but they may not exactly cater to your preferences.
> 
> ...


There is also the new Venture Electronics Sun Copper (could not hear it for the moment, not many reviews, the ones I red on Earbuds Anonymous are very positive).


----------



## DBaldock9 (Sep 22, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> If you are rooted (or can root) you could try Viper4Android.



There's a Viper4Android module that's part of the Magisk Rooting app.


----------



## Sam L

baskingshark said:


> Credit to @Dcell7 and @RikudouGoku from other threads, look like there's a earbud lucky bag on Aliexpress now:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hmmm.... decisions.... i have the black silver already, so 3 out of 4 chance I'll get something I dont have with the others on the list.


DBaldock9 said:


> There's a Viper4Android module that's part of the Magisk Rooting app.


I miss v4a dearly, but sadly I'm no longer using a rooted phone -- felt less of a need over the past couple years as performance tweaks aren't brining me the gains I used to see and lately google pay validation is getting more difficult to get around.


----------



## SciOC

So I finally got my purchases from the last Ali sale.  Got the ST10 black/gold and nicehck me80.

I'm just going to go ahead and say that if you're even remotely interested in buds just get the ME80 and go from there.

I'm burning them both in, but the st10s gold does indeed have an odd timbre, and I can't drive it loud so far without it sounding off (hopefully it just needs some burn in, but it could be a remnant of the wave guide stuff and the fact that I listen loud with plenty of power).

I got a bum 4.4mm mmcx cable from nicehck though with the order that made me think the whole thing was defective at first but it was just a bad cable after testing further.

The ME80 is great....  Probably the best bang for your buck I've ever heard in audio, and I'm not even liking buds that much so far....


----------



## Sam L

SciOC said:


> So I finally got my purchases from the last Ali sale.  Got the ST10 black/gold and nicehck me80.
> 
> I'm just going to go ahead and say that if you're even remotely interested in buds just get the ME80 and go from there.
> 
> ...


Yeah, same with the black/silver... the timbre is a tad off. probably not in exactly the same manner as the black/gold but they're not for me. I might sell them off. I'll probably make a wavelet oratory1990 compensation file and see if that improves things.


----------



## Sam L

OK, I'm at 216 hours of burn-in with the FiiO em5's. I want my lg v60 back, so I'm calling it done.

One of the biggest differences is in the accuracy of piano playback. Night and day from pre to post burn-in.


----------



## antdroid

Finally got the Earbuds Anonymous buds and my first impressions are they are quite bassy and lacking treble. Still kinda fun, but sounds rather low-res especially for the price. I was expecting a bit more. Here's some measurements, along with the Yincrow X6 for reference


----------



## antdroid (Sep 22, 2020)

Try my EQ for ST-10s (gold anyway)  This is a 10-band eq preset





upper treble changs are probably not necessary and 32Hz bass can be moved if desired.


----------



## SciOC (Sep 22, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Yeah, same with the black/silver... the timbre is a tad off. probably not in exactly the same manner as the black/gold but they're not for me. I might sell them off. I'll probably make a wavelet oratory1990 compensation file and see if that improves things.


No lie when I say that the ME80 sounds like the clearly better set right out of the box.  Both are running in right now, well see tomorrow....


antdroid said:


> Try my EQ for ST-10s (gold anyway)  This is a 10-band eq preset
> 
> 
> 
> upper treble changs are probably not necessary and 32Hz bass can be moved if desired.


I'll definitely give it a go.  I feel like if I try to EQ the sub bass up that much they'll explode though....  Already seem to be driving them too hard.  I'm worried I have a defective set with how they're distorting.

That's nearly as funky as the isine20 EQ.  Wonky tuning for sure.


----------



## antdroid

SciOC said:


> No lie when I say that the ME80 sounds like the clearly better set right out of the box.  Both are running in right now, well see tomorrow....
> 
> I'll definitely give it a go.  I feel like if I try to EQ the sub bass up that much they'll explode though....  Already seem to be driving them too hard.  I'm worried I have a defective set with how they're distorting.
> 
> That's nearly as funky as the isine20 EQ.  Wonky tuning for sure.



Oh weird, yea mine do not distort. they sound quite good with eq. The main part of the EQ I care about is the midrange, because that's where the funky shouty shrilly tonality is coming from. The subbass is more of a preference thing. I do find with earbuds that I need more bass in general to match the same amount of bass from IEMs and headphones. Perhaps its because of the lack of seal.


----------



## Sam L

antdroid said:


> Oh weird, yea mine do not distort. they sound quite good with eq. The main part of the EQ I care about is the midrange, because that's where the funky shouty shrilly tonality is coming from. The subbass is more of a preference thing. I do find with earbuds that I need more bass in general to match the same amount of bass from IEMs and headphones. Perhaps its because of the lack of seal.


For those with the black/silver version of the Smabat s10-s, here's a wavelet file w/ oratory1990 target. The recent wavelet update lets you set autoeq strength. Mine is at 60%.

Now the smabat's sound about 37X better.


----------



## antdroid

Sam L said:


> For those with the black/silver version of the Smabat s10-s, here's a wavelet file w/ oratory1990 target. The recent wavelet update lets you set autoeq strength. Mine is at 60%.
> 
> Now the smabat's sound about 37X better.



Unfortunately wavelet doesnt work on my DAP for some reason, but Ill give it a try later on my phone. Oratory's targets are for Headphones and IEMs and not ear buds though, and Harman hasn't developed a harman target for ear buds ( dont think they ever will). Did you base it off headphones or IEMs?


----------



## waynes world

fonkepala said:


> Have some free time to kill so I'll add a bit more on the subject. The K's Nameless have a surprising level of detail & clarity for the price. They are very forward-sounding. Lively, which I think I've mentioned before. Timbre from instruments sounds natural. Dexter Gordon's sax sounds oh-so-right. Drums, percussion: I can hear how light/hard the drummer is hitting the leather and with what kind of sticks. Cymbals and high hats sound as they should. Strings and woodwinds are perfect. No sibilance or treble that's too hot that I can detect. Bass is adequately extended with good speed. Freddy Mercury's vocals hit me like they always do. Female vocals too, Adele's voice on 'One & Only' has got me nodding my head & truly enjoying the music. IIRC, there was one J-pop song with very complex arrangements on which it all sounded a bit all over the place, but I have an inkling that has more to do with the track rather than the earbuds themselves.
> 
> I perceived a wider soundstage & better separation with the iFi Zen DAC. With the Stoner Acoustics UD130, the K's Nameless sounded more intimate. I haven't paired it with the Mojo yet, but I will and I think it will blow me away even more then. So yeah, as with most things, upstream gear in the chain will probably play a substantial part. I didn't drive the K's Nameless directly from my phone and I don't intend to. For those who do, YMMV.
> 
> ...



Resistance. Futile. Glass of wine. Buy Now. Done!


----------



## Sam L

antdroid said:


> Unfortunately wavelet doesnt work on my DAP for some reason, but Ill give it a try later on my phone. Oratory's targets are for Headphones and IEMs and not ear buds though, and Harman hasn't developed a harman target for ear buds ( dont think they ever will). Did you base it off headphones or IEMs?


I based it off of oratory's iem target. I agree iem and headphone targets are not a great fit for buds. I'm guessing the ideal target is something along the lines of harman iem but compressed across the spectrum. (think peace / apo compression setting pressed 3 or 4 times).

Im also beginning to think that there are limitations in tuning buds, particularly considering nearly all are a single driver configuration with not alot of design choices when it comes to physically altering the sonic pathway. I think smabat has effectively created a bass monster, now they just need to bring better coherency and balance. (likely something very difficult to manage).

Honestly I think one of the most underexploited tuning resources is in active electronics, think blue headphones with the dac built in (pretty forward thinking at the time.)


----------



## antdroid

Sam L said:


> I based it off of oratory's iem target. I agree iem and headphone targets are not a great fit for buds. I'm guessing the ideal target is something along the lines of harman iem but compressed across the spectrum. (think peace / apo compression setting pressed 3 or 4 times).
> 
> Im also beginning to think that there are limitations in tuning buds, particularly considering nearly all are a single driver configuration with not alot of design choices when it comes to physically altering the sonic pathway. I think smabat has effectively created a bass monster, now they just need to bring better coherency and balance. (likely something very difficult to manage).
> 
> Honestly I think one of the most underexploited tuning resources is in active electronics, think blue headphones with the dac built in (pretty forward thinking at the time.)



Yep. Some companies have totally embraced dap like Audeze.


----------



## Sam L (Sep 22, 2020)

antdroid said:


> Unfortunately wavelet doesnt work on my DAP for some reason, but Ill give it a try later on my phone. Oratory's targets are for Headphones and IEMs and not ear buds though, and Harman hasn't developed a harman target for ear buds ( dont think they ever will). Did you base it off headphones or IEMs?


Yes, try it out on your phone.

My use case for wavelet might be a bit of an outlier. I've been trying to normalize the listening experience of my iems and buds across multiple sources - - desktop/peace/meridian explorer, laptop/oppo ha2, 3 phones (note 10, lg v60 and pixel 4 xl).

My solution leading to exploring Wavelet is currently to make an equalization file that could be used on all my sources.

I measure my iems/buds with an iec711 coupler, plot out the graph, then compile the autoeq file... oratory for now (but might eventually tweak my own target.)

This does limit me to android 9 daps, though. Wavelet is only compatible with android 9+. I asked on the dap forum and it seams there aren't that many out there yet. (a couple sony  models and hiby r8).


----------



## Sam L

OK. I've been listening to the Smabat s10s black/silver for much of the evening. 

The eq file I made makes this thing sound 87% as good as my fiio em5. Before compensation it was 32% as good as the em5.


----------



## baskingshark

Sam L said:


> OK. I've been listening to the Smabat s10s black/silver for much of the evening.
> 
> The eq file I made makes this thing sound 87% as good as my fiio em5. Before compensation it was 32% as good as the em5.



Do u have the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold to compare with the EM5??

From some of the impressions of those that have both Black Gold and Black Silver, they are quite different (I don't have the Black Silver). And Clieo was saying something like there was a retuned version of the Black Silver that released after the first tuning. Quite confusing permutations as such!


----------



## Sam L

baskingshark said:


> Do u have the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold to compare with the EM5??
> 
> From some of the impressions of those that have both Black Gold and Black Silver, they are quite different (I don't have the Black Silver). And Clieo was saying something like there was a retuned version of the Black Silver that released after the first tuning. Quite confusing permutations as such!


Sadly, don't have the black/gold. I should of picked up that version instead of the black/silver. These were my 2nd buds ever, after picking up the snow lotus 1+ off of amazon to get my feet wet in the buds world. 

However, I'm quite certain the black/gold aren't close to the em5. The em5 have insane bass detail and presence (not overpowering but complex). The soundstage is also on another level w/ the em5


----------



## baskingshark

Sam L said:


> Sadly, don't have the black/gold. I should of picked up that version instead of the black/silver. These were my 2nd buds ever, after picking up the snow lotus 1+ off of amazon to get my feet wet in the buds world.
> 
> However, I'm quite certain the black/gold aren't close to the em5. The em5 have insane bass detail and presence (not overpowering but complex). The soundstage is also on another level w/ the em5



K cause of the folks who own both Black Gold and Black Silver, they say the Black Silver is a downgrade.

When amped, the Black Gold has almost jaw rattling subbass, I never ever thought the day would come when I can hear this kinda subbass in a earbud! Basshead approved for sure.
Though maybe the bass isn't that textured and detailed as some IEMs I have used, but still better than some midfi earbuds I've tried. SMABAT ST10S Black Gold' soundstage isn't the best in a earbud, but it has excellent technical performance.


----------



## antdroid

Finally an earbud that has proper subbass and it's deemed a basshead earbud 

I think the ST10s is great with the eq fixes. Wish they toned down that 2K spike. Seems to be a problem on a lot of earbuds though, which is why I love the general tonality of the yincrow x6 since it sounds very proper to me even if it's a tad low resolution.


----------



## assassin10000

antdroid said:


> Try my EQ for ST-10s (gold anyway)  This is a 10-band eq preset



I'm guessing the gray line is the measurement without EQ of your ST-10S black/gold. 


Measured my original ST-10 and it doesn't seem to have as sharp of a 2k spike, nor as compressed looking between 1k & 3k.




Granted this is on my homemade earbud coupler and IMM-6. (7k is the resonant frequency on it.)


----------



## luckyeights

fonkepala said:


> A quick word on the K's Nameless. My early impression of them is that they're *bloody fantastic*! I started auditioning them 2 nights ago and have yet to switch to any other buds. Prior to that, I was using my old VE Monk + (for nostalgia's sake) and right off the bat I could perceive that the K's Nameless sounded more energetic & lively using the same upstream gear & source. Everything sounds just so *right* with the K's Nameless. When I use them, I stopped fiddling around with my gear, my playlists (stopped skipping tracks and saying 'nah these don't work with this music genre), etc. I just leave everything be & started enjoying the music more (something we should all probably do?).
> 
> TL;DR The K's Nameless are just very great sounding buds! I have yet to find a glaring shortcoming with them...in fact, it's pretty safe to say I think that they might not have any. Subtle ones, perhaps yes...but they're not overly glaring.
> 
> ...



Where did you pick these up for 2 usd ?


----------



## SciOC

antdroid said:


> Finally an earbud that has proper subbass and it's deemed a basshead earbud
> 
> I think the ST10s is great with the eq fixes. Wish they toned down that 2K spike. Seems to be a problem on a lot of earbuds though, which is why I love the general tonality of the yincrow x6 since it sounds very proper to me even if it's a tad low resolution.


Yeah, that 8db cut from 2khz is absolutely essential to making them sound less odd. I think they need some more burn, they still sound mediocre at best to me coming from IEMs.

I actually still like the me80 much better as of today.  Would love to get another set and recable them with mmcx so I can use them with a 4.4mm cable to get my balanced power into them....

But, overall, I think this will probably be the extent of my descent into buds.  I just can't get on board with the lack of... Fullness to the sound in comparison to IEMs.  

Different strokes for different folks, but these are not for me, there just is too much musical information missing from how they fit.  I'd love if they made xelastec bud covers, that might help a bit.  But 3 pairs of buds in, plus accessories, for $125 was a worthwhile expense to see what it's all about and get me through this working from home business....


----------



## luckyeights

Hmm im starting to become curious of these k's nameless,  how do they compare to any other buds maybe to vido or mx500 ?   Also where can one purchase them for best price ?


----------



## fonkepala

luckyeights said:


> Where did you pick these up for 2 usd ?



A friend helped me to buy it from Taobao.


----------



## Nool (Sep 23, 2020)

SciOC said:


> Yeah, that 8db cut from 2khz is absolutely essential to making them sound less odd. I think they need some more burn, they still sound mediocre at best to me coming from IEMs.
> 
> I actually still like the me80 much better as of today.  Would love to get another set and recable them with mmcx so I can use them with a 4.4mm cable to get my balanced power into them....
> 
> ...


I've reached the same conclusion, you really can't expect true high fidelity from earbuds, you gotta have some sort of seal around your ears (or just flood the environment with speakers), else you'll be dealing with some bleed in sound pressure. I'm pretty happy with my bk2 and rambo2, and from what I'm reading there really isn't much further to go, even looking at expensive stuff. If I could slap the bk2 timbre on the rambo2 I'd be totally done.

I'll probably still pick up some cheap buds for fun but I feel I understand the limits of what earbuds can offer.


----------



## antdroid

assassin10000 said:


> I'm guessing the gray line is the measurement without EQ of your ST-10S black/gold.
> 
> 
> Measured my original ST-10 and it doesn't seem to have as sharp of a 2k spike, nor as compressed looking between 1k & 3k.
> ...



Nice. I am using a standard IEC711 coupler with the earbud add-on to measure with a piece of tape to hold it down with very light pressure. I havnt tried to measure with IMM6 though I do have one. They do measure a little differently after 1-3KHz range and onward and depends a lot on how you couple it.



SciOC said:


> Yeah, that 8db cut from 2khz is absolutely essential to making them sound less odd. I think they need some more burn, they still sound mediocre at best to me coming from IEMs.
> 
> I actually still like the me80 much better as of today.  Would love to get another set and recable them with mmcx so I can use them with a 4.4mm cable to get my balanced power into them....
> 
> ...



Xelastec ear bud covers.... that would be interesting! The ST-10S does come with silicone covers, but I feel like the tiny little holes arent letting enough sound through, and makes it muffled sounding.

I definitely prefer the sound of IEMs and headphones over earbuds many times over, but there is some convenience of the ear bud's quick in and out and openness that an IEM cant replicate.


----------



## Sam L

one more for rambo 2 owners with an android 9+ device.

wavelet compensation file


----------



## waynes world

fonkepala said:


> Yes, it's exactly the one in the link. I'm still very early on in my usage of the Nameless, and it's been a while since I've listened to the Sharp MD. Will need some more time before I can give detailed comparisons. All I can say for now is that the Nameless sounds really good. The specific nuances will have to come later.



So, these are the ones that you got: https://shopee.ph/product/43253829/5851316853?smtt=0.0.9

And these are the ones that I got: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001304427737.html

I didn't think buds could be more "nameless" then yours are, but apparently mine fit that criteria!

They do visually look the same though, so here's to hoping they sound the same!


----------



## RikudouGoku

Alright wow, simply WOW!

@antdroid Your Yincrow X6 rec is spot on!
Holy crap that bass! AND WITHOUT KILLING THE TIMBRE OR TONALITY THAT EVEN THE DQSM TURANDOT DOES!!

From my short listening with my newest buds, I would say the order is like this:

K Nameless < K Bell-LB < NiceHCK B40 < Yincrow X6

The Nameless sounds like a budget Bell-LB, that is warm.

Bell-LB has better quality and technicalities but most noticeably more air than the nameless, the best value is obviously the nameless and a steal if you can get it at the 2 (?) usd price.

B40 sounds like a warmer and trades the air for bass, in the NiceHCK MX500.

X6.....I will 100% review this, hehe


----------



## antdroid

RikudouGoku said:


> Alright wow, simply WOW!
> 
> @antdroid Your Yincrow X6 rec is spot on!
> Holy crap that bass! AND WITHOUT KILLING THE TIMBRE OR TONALITY THAT EVEN THE DQSM TURANDOT DOES!!
> ...



Still waiting for the X6 killer that I do not have to EQ 

I may pick up that ME10 and try it out.


----------



## RikudouGoku

antdroid said:


> Still waiting for the X6 killer that I do not have to EQ
> 
> I may pick up that ME10 and try it out.


ME10?

I wonder if there is a 4.4mm version on the X6 though...


----------



## Nool (Sep 23, 2020)

@antdroid check out the bk2 if you're willing to spend the $22, I'm really impressed with the timbre. Not sure if I'm crazy or what, but I prefer it over everything else in my signature save for the ER2XR, and even then I think it puts up an honest fight, BK2 sounds somewhat lighter and maybe thinner. Unfortunately it has pretty bad staging that tends to kill off any air or subbass. But it can really shred the upper bass and mids imo. I'd like to hear contesting opinions on it.

I've been emailing the manufacturer to try and find out what material it uses for the diaphragm to no avail. AK Audio on aliexpress says they think it might be titanium, but didn't know for sure.

Edit: also has decent tuning, Sam posted a fr of it a few pages back. Doesn't really need any eq, maybe cut the midbass a few db.


----------



## waynes world (Sep 23, 2020)

RikudouGoku said:


> K Nameless < K Bell-LB < NiceHCK B40 < Yincrow X6
> 
> The Nameless sounds like a budget Bell-LB, that is warm.



Lol - this hobby is great! I just finish buying the Nameless based on convincing hype, and you bring a wrecking ball to the party! Just goes to show you how subjective this hobby is.

p.s. anyone: I have the Yincrow X9  RW9 which I love. Worth getting the X6?


----------



## baskingshark

Nool said:


> @antdroid check out the bk2 if you're willing to spend the $22, I'm really impressed with the timbre. Not sure if I'm crazy or what, but I prefer it over everything else in my signature save for the ER2XR, and even then I think it puts up an honest fight, BK2 sounds somewhat lighter and maybe thinner. Unfortunately it has pretty bad staging that tends to kill off any air or subbass. But it can really shred the upper bass and mids imo. I'd like to hear contesting opinions on it.
> 
> I've been emailing the manufacturer to try and find out what material it uses for the diaphragm to no avail. AK Audio on aliexpress says they think it might be titanium, but didn't know for sure.
> 
> Edit: also has decent tuning, Sam posted a fr of it a few pages back. Doesn't really need any eq, maybe cut the midbass a few db.



BK2 is one of my favourite neutralish buds. Comes with detachable cables too at $20ish, which is stellar, considering some TOTL buds have fixed cables in 2020.
Timbre is good, technicalities above average but not the best, though the bass is a bit too light for me, plus the soundstage isn't good for a earbud as you say. But for $20, excellent sound!

K I would be interested to see what diaphragm material it is too. But of the titanium driver type sets I've tried before, they sounded very fast in transients but had an artificial timbre, so I am a bit doubtful the BK2 uses titanium, but yeah maybe I'll try to dig some more info from the sellers about this.


----------



## theresanarc

theresanarc said:


> I just ordered the B40's based on recommendations here and guess which version I ordered like an idiot, the mic'd lmao. I knew I should've just gone with the regular like usual but I thought I could use a pair of backup earbuds since I sometimes need a headset for my job and Edifier P190s are my only mic'd earbud.
> 
> Still, I'm not picky and this is the only pair of earbuds for music I've ordered in like an year so I was just dipping my toes in the water, will likely get a bit more of an upgraded PK-shell earbud in a bit.



I just got the B40s (surprisingly fast within a few weeks I guess cos they shipped them from within North America directly with AE shipping). I don't hear the channel variation which Sam L was talking about pn the mic'd version but then again, I'm an audio noob who probably can't distinguish it anyways.

Anyways, they sound great, just the right balance which I was looking for. I think I still prefer my Qian39s a bit but these are probably second now.

Btw the mic on them isn't as good as the Edifier H190s which I got last month but it's good enough and the audio is much better.r


----------



## Sam L

waynes world said:


> Lol - this hobby is great! I just finish buying the Nameless based on convincing hype, and you bring a wrecking ball to the party! Just goes to show you how subjective this hobby is.
> 
> p.s. anyone: I have the Yincrow X9  RW9 which I love. Worth getting the X6?


I didn't really get to listen to my x6 yet, came in but so did my lz a7 so that is monopolizing my time. I listened to half a song with the x6 and it strikes me as the same as the rw9 with a worse cable. the rw9 is an exceptional bud


----------



## fonkepala

waynes world said:


> So, these are the ones that you got: https://shopee.ph/product/43253829/5851316853?smtt=0.0.9
> 
> And these are the ones that I got: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001304427737.html
> 
> ...



The buds in both links look identical, so excluding some pretty significant unit variation and/or very poor QC, in all probability they will sound the same as mine. Yup, the K's Nameless are pretty nondescript visually, but not aurally 



waynes world said:


> Lol - this hobby is great! I just finish buying the Nameless based on convincing hype, and you bring a wrecking ball to the party! Just goes to show you how subjective this hobby is.
> 
> p.s. anyone: I have the Yincrow X9  RW9 which I love. Worth getting the X6?



I was pretty conscious of this before I posted my impressions of the K's Nameless here. I detest some of the groups on FB which seem to be all about nothing more than starting hype trains or hyping up the current flavor the month/week. As such, I didn't want to give off the impression that I was 'hyping' the K's Nameless unnecessarily. I gave conscious thought as to how best to convey my feelings and impressions of the K's Nameless without it coming across as pure hype. I hope I was successful in that regard in some measure, but I can understand if some still see it as such.

FWIW, I had to literally *force* myself to stop listening to the K's Nameless last night. I reluctantly put them way in my earbuds storage box and promised myself that I'd move on to auditioning the K's LBBs today, which I'm currently doing.

I have the Yincrow X6 waiting in line to be auditioned and my RW9 will be coming in next week, along with my eagerly awaited Hessian Ansata. 

Enjoy your buds in good health everyone & have a good rest of the week.


----------



## baskingshark

fonkepala said:


> I was pretty conscious of this before I posted my impressions of the K's Nameless here. I detest some of the groups on FB which seem to be all about nothing more than starting hype trains or hyping up the current flavor the month/week. As such, I didn't want to give off the impression that I was 'hyping' the K's Nameless unnecessarily. I gave conscious thought as to how best to convey my feelings and impressions of the K's Nameless without it coming across as pure hype. I hope I was successful in that regard in some measure, but I can understand if some still see it as such.



No worries, I trust your impressions of the K's Nameless!

Yes I know what u mean, the Tingo TC200 earbud is being hyped to the moon in a certain FB group. I bought the Tingo TC200 cause of the hype and was superbly underwhelmed, the timbre is off. Well it is 4 bucks so I just skipped a starbucks coffee for it, and perhaps my expectations were too skewed after seeing the hype. A certain QKZ VK4 is likewise the flavour of the week there, though I haven't tried the VK4 to confirm.


----------



## fonkepala (Sep 24, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> No worries, I trust your impressions of the K's Nameless!
> 
> Yes I know what u mean, the Tingo TC200 earbud is being hyped to the moon in a certain FB group. I bought the Tingo TC200 cause of the hype and was superbly underwhelmed, the timbre is off. Well it is 4 bucks so I just skipped a starbucks coffee for it, and perhaps my expectations were too skewed after seeing the hype. A certain QKZ VK4 is likewise the flavour of the week there, though I haven't tried the VK4 to confirm.



Thank you for the vote of confidence  And yes, *THAT* FB group exactly!  I don't know, it just seems excessive. But where and how does one draw the line between hype and well-deserved praise, and as readers/consumers how can we discern one from the other? I'm not so sure myself, unfortunately.

Edit: Comparing your findings on the TC200/TG38s and all the hype for it in that FB group I'd say there's a significant difference. Ironic, since one of the guys who started the hype train there is supposedly a 'timbre freak'


----------



## Alex.Grimm

About 50$ Lucky bag/Fukubukuro. A huge chance that inside Smabat or Yincrow


Spoiler



https://aliexpress.ru/item/1005001485239820.html


Smabat EP01


Spoiler



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001457981527.html


----------



## fonkepala

Alex.Grimm said:


> Smabat EP01
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



A seller that's local to me is selling this for the equivalent of US$2. However, it's branded as JCally EP01.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

fonkepala said:


> A seller that's local to me is selling this for the equivalent of US$2. However, it's branded as JCally EP01.


Understandably Smabat decided to confuse everyone. There are also such Jcally Jc10


Spoiler



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000394646612.html
https://aliexpress.ru/item/4000394631824.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000394640701.html


----------



## wskl

Smabat are also selling a M2 DIY model where you have to do the assembly and soldering yourself.


Spoiler



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001279758995.html



Another Jcally earbud showed up on their store, the EP05 which has mmcx cable.


Spoiler



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001488584192.html


----------



## fonkepala

wskl said:


> Another Jcally earbud showed up on their store, the EP05 which has mmcx cable.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



So is JCally the official OEM for Smabat's low- to mid-tier earbuds?


----------



## theresanarc

Just a heads up that the Qian69s look like they are shipping now from that single remaining seller on AE who was previously cancelling orders on them before. Some recent reviews from people saying they recieved them on the product page and the one I ordered last week has been shipped (though we'll see if it's a real tracking number and if I actually end up getting them).


----------



## golov17 (Sep 24, 2020)

waynes world said:


> have the Yincrow X9  RW9 which I love. Worth getting the X6?


 no, rw9 much better... 
clearer mids, deeper bass, wider SS (versus recabled x6)


----------



## RikudouGoku

golov17 said:


> no, rw9 much better


Are you serious?   

What is it better at? or is the RW9 simply superior to the X6 in every way while having the same signature?


----------



## fonkepala

RikudouGoku said:


> Are you serious?
> 
> What is it better at? or is the RW9 simply superior to the X6 in every way while having the same signature?



I sense a 'Buy It Now' button will be clicked on somewhere in Sweden soon...


----------



## RikudouGoku

fonkepala said:


> I sense a 'Buy It Now' button will be clicked on somewhere in Sweden soon...


Oh no, not this time.

If I want to get it, I will probably wait for 11/11 to slaughter my wallet.   

Although the Tin Hifi P2 might damage my wallet before that lol.


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Are you serious?
> 
> What is it better at? or is the RW9 simply superior to the X6 in every way while having the same signature?


hmm interesting.... man, I just don't have the time to critically listen to all the cheap buds I had come in the last couple months. Golov17 makes it sounds like the difference is obvious. Now I'm curious. I won't be back til next tues to do a comparison.  until then I just have to settle to listening to my lz a7.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> hmm interesting.... man, I just don't have the time to critically listen to all the cheap buds I had come in the last couple months. Golov17 makes it sounds like the difference is obvious. Now I'm curious. I won't be back til next tues to do a comparison.  until then I just have to settle to listening to my lz a7.


Yeah, with a big claim like that I do want some more information. 

Maybe @antdroid has the rw-9 to compare with the x6? 

It is quite easy for it to just have a different sound signature with more treble and that could be misinterpreted as it having better details. 

Personally If the tonality or timbre is off on an earbud, I couldn't care less about the technicalities. (like with the dqsm turandot...)


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah, with a big claim like that I do want some more information.
> 
> Maybe @antdroid has the rw-9 to compare with the x6?
> 
> ...


I kind of think that earbud technicalities are pretty low priority since they all pretty much suck compared to IEMs. I'm surprised that the turandot didn't impress, given the price point.


----------



## Sam L

Sam L said:


> I kind of think that earbud technicalities are pretty low priority since they all pretty much suck compared to IEMs. I'm surprised that the turandot didn't impress, given the price point.


or more accurately speaking, re: bud's technicalities, after tonality/timbre, the disparity isn't very high with technical aspects that would distinguish one bud as better than another.


----------



## antdroid

RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah, with a big claim like that I do want some more information.
> 
> Maybe @antdroid has the rw-9 to compare with the x6?
> 
> ...



Rw9 is also good! It's a little cleaner sounding but I think less fun. It's got a little crisper treble from memory and a little less mid bass. Unfortunately my rw9 broke and I haven't replaced it yet.


----------



## dissociativity

So the memt T6 and Yincrow RW100 are out, both apple-style semi in-ear, anyone got any impressions? I have high hopes for both.


----------



## golov17 (Sep 24, 2020)

At least of those pairs that I have, they sound exactly different.  Although, now I'm not sure if x6 sounds worse, rather differently..  for me RW-9 as the low-impedance little brother of VE beta Asura ))


----------



## Sam L

If any of you are android users and love earbuds, you eventually need to get onboard with the wavelet app. I have half a mind to create compensation files for all the buds mentioned here.


----------



## Sam L

dissociativity said:


> So the memt T6 and Yincrow RW100 are out, both apple-style semi in-ear, anyone got any impressions? I have high hopes for both.


That's definitely a form factor that could develop into something. I picked up the fiil cc awhile back and the quantity and quality of the bass produced by that semi in-ear is impressive.


----------



## 1Q84 (Sep 25, 2020)

Just out of curiosity, are the Yincrow x6 or rw-9 much better than the free earphones on the samsung s9 and s10 or even the Sony MH755? in terms of resolution and timbre?


----------



## citral23 (Sep 25, 2020)

Just received Smabat black/gold, living to expectations : an overall neutral-ish signature that ressembles the tonekings but with a better definition overall and a much deeper bass extension and gentle growl, without any sort of boominess. Mids are just where they should be, can turn the volume up anytime without being overwhelmed.

Better than expectations: the shells "gold" is more brass than gold, looks less shiny/bling than I thought. Shells are also smaller than pictures had me think. High quality cable, not my favorite color but I'm not sure anymore I'll replace it with a lesser quality matte black one I ordered and haven't received yet.

Paired with dual ak4497eq I received at the same time, it's a good day


----------



## Sam L

1Q84 said:


> Just out of curiosity, are the Yincrow x6 or rw-9 much better than the free earphones on the samsung s9 and s10 or even the Sony MH755? in terms of resolution and timbre?


people might find this surprising but the oem earphones that come with the Samsung phones are actually pretty good. I don't have any in possession at the moment and its been a couple years since I've heard some but I remember that they were pretty decent sounding. If I recall they were fairly neutral sounding? 

I'll let someone else who might have both on hand to compare chime in. I'll also look around. My son might have a pair still.


----------



## fokta (Sep 25, 2020)

Sam L said:


> people might find this surprising but the oem earphones that come with the Samsung phones are actually pretty good. I don't have any in possession at the moment and its been a couple years since I've heard some but I remember that they were pretty decent sounding. If I recall they were fairly neutral sounding?
> 
> I'll let someone else who might have both on hand to compare chime in. I'll also look around. My son might have a pair still.





Yeah. I used to like this, somehow much better from my Apple one..


----------



## vygas

After some patience on eBay, I got a pair of the HDD-1 with the red film driver, for only 5GBP!!! I originally bought a pair of an Italian seller but they were not the ones I was looking for (he claimed it was an Italian market pair). Glad to finally get a pair of these, I love em.



Spoiler


----------



## antdroid

Yes the akg/samsung earphones included with Galaxy phones are pretty good for free. They are a tad bright but have decent tonality and qualities. 

I prefer x6 as it's not as bright and more natural sounding to me.


----------



## daid1 (Sep 25, 2020)

happyness


----------



## Sam L

daid1 said:


> happyness


That's really cool looking!


----------



## fonkepala

HZSound earbuds: 'With wheat to eat chicken subwoofer'

Lol whaaattt?


----------



## dabaiyan

fonkepala said:


> HZSound earbuds: 'With wheat to eat chicken subwoofer'
> 
> Lol whaaattt?


It means has mic and good for playing PUBG... lol


----------



## axhng

1Q84 said:


> Just out of curiosity, are the Yincrow x6 or rw-9 much better than the free earphones on the samsung s9 and s10 or even the Sony MH755? in terms of resolution and timbre?



Sadly I don't have any of the Yincrows, but for what it's worth, I do have the Samsung AKG earphones (USB-C version from Note10), a re-cabled MH755, and the ME80. To my ears at least, my vote goes to the ME80. But take with grain of salt I guess, since there is always a possibility that my DIY re-cabled MH755 sounds different (upper mids is a bit thin & shouty for me), and the USB-C version of the Samsung AKG earphones sounds a bit too bass heavy and warm to me. I used to have the s10's earphones as well and IIRC, the S10's 3.5mm version is more balanced compared to the USB-C version, and a little better when it comes to details.


----------



## Sam L

daid1 said:


> happyness


What are we looking at? I'd love a little more information about your new acquisition! congrats.


----------



## RikudouGoku

NiceHCK B40 rank A.

L-shaped

Bass is amazing. Mids and treble are also pretty good. But the tonality can be a tiny bit too warm, treble air isnt as good as on the MX500.
(They pretty much trade treble air for bass quantity/quantity.)
And is pretty much inferior to the Yincrow while having a very similar signature (bass/treble extension is better on the X6) at around the same price too.

Build is a little bit rough, so its a bit uncomfortable.


----------



## RikudouGoku

K´s earphone Bell-LB rank A

Less air than the NiceHCK MX500 but similar bass. 
The build is tiny so I am not getting a very good fit. But nothing really wrong with it and tonality/timbre is great as expected from an earbud.


----------



## RikudouGoku

K´s earphone Nameless rank B.


Budget Bell-LB with worse extension on both treble/bass and worse SQ/technicalities (warmer than the Bell-LB though since the treble extension is much worse and with less air). Value is great if you can get it at the 2 usd price, but at 10 usd? 
Cant rec it at that price since there are others that are better.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Yincrow X6 rank S.

Bass-boosted neutral

Bass is spectacular, both quality AND quantity are very good on it. Mids and treble are not compromised by the bass either and are very tonally correct and with great timbre. 

First bud I have heard with a bass that is this comparable to iems without it killing everything else. 

I will do a full review of this sooner or later, but this is a big rec from me. (credits to @antdroid of course.)


----------



## daid1

Sam L said:


> What are we looking at? I'd love a little more information about your new acquisition! congrats.



Thanks  Tiny Woodcraft Side Fill model https://instagram.com/tiny_woodcraft?igshid=1kg1dido4q89x


----------



## cappuchino

Hi, head-fi people! I'm new here and the first thing I wanna ask is what dirt-cheap earbuds I should buy. I did some looking up and these are what I can buy in my country (converted everything to USD):

*Headroom MS16 $4: https://shopee.ph/HEADROOM-MS16-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbuds-Headset-With-Mic-i.43253829.1120981937

*EMX500 Bro $4: https://shopee.ph/DIY-EMX500-Bro-HiFi-Heavy-Bass-Sound-Earphone-MX500-Earbuds-i.43253829.1277919638

*Faaeal Iris 1.0 $4: https://shopee.ph/FAAEAL-Iris-1.0-32ohm-HiFi-Earbuds-with-Mic-i.182669784.6144053940

*KB EAR Stellar $3: https://shopee.ph/KBEAR-Stellar-15....arphone-Flagship-Earbud-i.43253829.3250527307

*K's Earphone Nameless $2.50: https://shopee.ph/Ksearphone-Namele...-ShiroYuki-FAAEAL-IRIS-i.283086553.4751297819

*Vido In-ear $2: https://shopee.ph/Vido-In-Ear-Earph...d-Bass-HIFI-Bass-Headset-i.43253829.862284837

*DIY MX500 $4: https://shopee.ph/DIY-MX500-In-ear-Flat-Head-Plug-earbud-DIY-Earphone-i.130831539.2073896970

*Faaeal Iris CE $5: https://shopee.ph/FAAEAL-MX500-(Iri...-HiFi-Earbuds-with-Mic-i.182669784.6644053981

Other recommendations are very much welcome. Oh, and something that comes with a mic is better as I can use it for online classes. Then, I'd be buying a **** 8-core cable for my iem (QKZ VK4). I only have an Iphone 5s as a power source.

I want something with a sound signature of the polar opposite. Thank you so much, Head-fi peeps!


----------



## mochill

daid1 said:


> Thanks  Tiny Woodcraft Side Fill model https://instagram.com/tiny_woodcraft?igshid=1kg1dido4q89x


How does it sound


----------



## baskingshark

fonkepala said:


> HZSound earbuds: 'With wheat to eat chicken subwoofer'
> 
> Lol whaaattt?



Wow i didn't know HZSound does earbuds.

I was very surprised by the HZSound Heart Mirror IEM that recently came out. Neutralish bright with excellent vocals and timbre. Despite the upper mids boost, I found it wasn't that jarring in the upper mids compared to some competitor CHIFI. Excellent technicalities and fast transients. Only thing soundstage was a bit average.

But wow, I'll see if I can buy this HZSound earbud from Ali.


----------



## cappuchino

sub30 said:


> Hi, head-fi people! I'm new here and the first thing I wanna ask is what dirt-cheap earbuds I should buy. I did some looking up and these are what I can buy in my country (converted everything to USD):
> 
> ...


Decided to increase budget...

Nicehck B40 ($7) vs. Yincrow X6 ($7.50) vs. Fengru Silver (MX985)???

Other suggestions are welcome.


----------



## Hououin Kyouma

RikudouGoku said:


> Yincrow X6 rank S.
> 
> Bass-boosted neutral
> 
> ...


Interesting. Yincrow X6 has same driver as 2$ Vido, but better cable and ranked higher than snow lotus 2.5mm balanced? Maybe you love bass but for me X6 is just slightly better than Vido, the lotus 2.5mm is wayyyy better. It sounds like heaven when paired with aune m1s and hiby r6


----------



## vygas

sub30 said:


> Decided to increase budget...
> 
> Nicehck B40 ($7) vs. Yincrow X6 ($7.50) vs. Fengru Silver (MX985)???
> 
> Other suggestions are welcome.


Btw, the Fengru Silver doesn't use a MX985 driver, you can find the exact driver with the green outline sold as "Vido" drivers on Ali. They're still pretty decent buds though.


----------



## cappuchino (Sep 26, 2020)

Hououin Kyouma said:


> Interesting. Yincrow X6 has same driver as 2$ Vido, but better cable and ranked higher than snow lotus 2.5mm balanced? Maybe you love bass but for me X6 is just slightly better than Vido, the lotus 2.5mm is wayyyy better. It sounds like heaven when paired with aune m1s and hiby r6


Is there a drastic difference when the Snow Lotus ($7) is powered by a phone (Iphone 5s)? Oh, and what other earbuds you have that you can recommend? I'm trying to maximize my $10 USD budget.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Hououin Kyouma said:


> Interesting. Yincrow X6 has same driver as 2$ Vido, but better cable and ranked higher than snow lotus 2.5mm balanced? Maybe you love bass but for me X6 is just slightly better than Vido, the lotus 2.5mm is wayyyy better. It sounds like heaven when paired with aune m1s and hiby r6


The snow lotus 2.5mm is around the level of the NiceHCK MX500. With a typical earbud bass.

While the X6 actually has a bass that is comparable to iems, that is a very big deal to me as someone that mainly uses iems.




sub30 said:


> Is there a drastic difference when the Snow Lotus ($7) is powered by a phone (Iphone 5s)? Oh, and what other earbuds you have that you can recommend? I'm trying to maximize my $10 USD budget.


I would remove the NiceHCK B40 and just keep the Yincrow X6 in that candidate list, as the X6 is just superior to the B40 while having a similar signature.

If you like more treble air and a cleaner sound though I would go for the NiceHCK MX500. But otherwise the X6 is my nr 1 rec for earbuds right now.

(FIY: My source is the Ibasso DX160, so dont know how they would sound on a phone.)


----------



## Hououin Kyouma

sub30 said:


> Is there a drastic difference when the Snow Lotus ($7) is powered by a phone (Iphone 5s)? Oh, and what other earbuds you have that you can recommend? I'm trying to maximize my $10 USD budget.


"Good source" is recommended for all faaeal earbuds, even the 32 ohms version. I don't know how they sound with phones but some users (not all) said smth like "muddy" sound when pairing them with phones 



RikudouGoku said:


> The snow lotus 2.5mm is around the level of the NiceHCK MX500. With a typical earbud bass.
> 
> While the X6 actually has a bass that is comparable to iems, that is a very big deal to me as someone that mainly uses iems.


Yeah I respect your taste, also agree X6 has great bass for an earbud


----------



## Sam L (Sep 26, 2020)

K's Nameless!

What a great bud for the price. The interesting thing is the driver on this bud can handle eq really, really well -- very little distortion when I use wavelet's autoeq implementation at 100% strength. So far, out of the 7 or 8 buds I've built autoeq files for, only one can handle 100% strength without distortion. That is the Fiio EM5. YMMV depending on source. I'm running a LG V60. rambo fails at 100%, smabat too, monks distort around 55% me80 fails at around 80%.

The compensation file I've attached can be used for peace (wrapper for apo eq on windows) or on android wavelet app.




parametric file is for PEACE. the other one is for wavelet


----------



## Sam L

wow.... sub-bass and mid bass is really good as well. not particularly fast or detailed (by iem standards) but very present and clearly defined apart from the lower mids.


----------



## cappuchino

Hououin Kyouma said:


> "Good source" is recommended for all faaeal earbuds, even the 32 ohms version. I don't know how they sound with phones but some users (not all) said smth like "muddy" sound when pairing them with phones
> 
> 
> Yeah I respect your taste, also agree X6 has great bass for an earbud


Not having a dedicated source is turning out to be a huge problem in my search for what earbud I should buy. I just really want my first experience to be really good with my money well spent.


----------



## baskingshark

sub30 said:


> Not having a dedicated source is turning out to be a huge problem in my search for what earbud I should buy. I just really want my first experience to be really good with my money well spent.



You can get something like the tempotec sonata HD Pro at around low $30 USD, it can almost hit the same sound quality as my desktop setup. It's a dongle that can go into a desktop or phone. Good sounding set, very transparent. I know $30 USD is relative though, might be cheap for some or expensive for some, but in this hobby I think $30 is on the lower side in the big scheme of things (some dac/amps go for thousands).

But personally, I think there's bigger mileage upgrading the transducer first (ie IEM or headphone or earbud). An experienced audiophile told me to upgrade whatever is closer to the ears first and move downstream from there (less diminishing returns). Ie upgrade the earbud/IEM first, then amp, then DAC. Plus minus source file or cable (if you are a cable believer).


----------



## Hououin Kyouma

sub30 said:


> Not having a dedicated source is turning out to be a huge problem in my search for what earbud I should buy. I just really want my first experience to be really good with my money well spent.


You can buy any amp dongle to pair with phones


----------



## digititus

baskingshark said:


> You can get something like the tempotec sonata HD Pro at around low $30 USD, it can almost hit the same sound quality as my desktop setup. It's a dongle that can go into a desktop or phone. Good sounding set, very transparent. I know $30 USD is relative though, might be cheap for some or expensive for some, but in this hobby I think $30 is on the lower side in the big scheme of things (some dac/amps go for thousands).


Tempotec Sonata HD Pro + Yincrow RW-9 has stopped me from buying anything in months. Used with UAPP, I do most of my home listening with this setup.


----------



## RikudouGoku

digititus said:


> Tempotec Sonata HD Pro + Yincrow RW-9 has stopped me from buying anything in months. Used with UAPP, I do most of my home listening with this setup.


...I aint pushing the buy button yet. Nope.

But I certainly will on 11/11.   

(RW-9)


----------



## fonkepala

Sam L said:


> wow.... sub-bass and mid bass is really good as well. not particularly fast or detailed (by iem standards) but very present and clearly defined apart from the lower mids.



On what buds? K's Nameless?


----------



## Sam L

fonkepala said:


> On what buds? K's Nameless?


Yes, k's nameless with the above compensation file.


----------



## abhijollyguy

Which is the best balanced sounding earbud around $30 mark? 

By balanced means, I am looking bass, mids and treble at equal amount.


----------



## daid1

mochill said:


> How does it sound


For now? Glorious , but is just a quick listen and are busy day so not much time to listen to it, to early to say something more specific


----------



## Nool

Sam L said:


> If any of you are android users and love earbuds, you eventually need to get onboard with the wavelet app. I have half a mind to create compensation files for all the buds mentioned here.


I'm using the eq you posted for the rambo2, it's really nice. Close to what I had but cleaner, I'm going to keep using it. Thanks


----------



## baskingshark

abhijollyguy said:


> Which is the best balanced sounding earbud around $30 mark?
> 
> By balanced means, I am looking bass, mids and treble at equal amount.



I would suggest the BK2. $21 - 22 USD during sales. It is not exactly neutral, maybe there's some slight upper mids boost, but it is quite well balanced for me personally.


----------



## abhijollyguy

baskingshark said:


> I would suggest the BK2. $21 - 22 USD during sales. It is not exactly neutral, maybe there's some slight upper mids boost, but it is quite well balanced for me personally.


What about Bell-LB 2020?


----------



## baskingshark

abhijollyguy said:


> What about Bell-LB 2020?



Haven't tried that, you might need to ask the rest.


----------



## assassin10000 (Sep 27, 2020)

abhijollyguy said:


> What about Bell-LB 2020?





baskingshark said:


> Haven't tried that, you might need to ask the rest.



I've heard both. The 2020 LB is better imo. In both comfort and more importantly SQ.

I found the BK2 to be less resolving and a bit veiled compared to the LB. The LB has better fit and more bass. The BK2 is less forward than the LB, but the LB isn't so forward that it is harsh or stands out too much. BK2 is more flat neutral while LB is more of a mild bass harman neutral.


----------



## imacaverage

Amazing sound!
Can someone tell me - are there in-ear headphones with a similar sound?


----------



## mochill

imacaverage said:


> Amazing sound!
> Can someone tell me - are there in-ear headphones with a similar sound?


Want dragon 3


----------



## waynes world

digititus said:


> Tempotec Sonata HD Pro + Yincrow RW-9 *has stopped me from buying anything in months*. Used with UAPP, I do most of my home listening with this setup.



It's nice when that happens!


----------



## fokta

imacaverage said:


> Amazing sound!
> Can someone tell me - are there in-ear headphones with a similar sound?


have my eyes on that also.. ?? can you describe what sound like with your pairing.... ?


----------



## fonkepala

waynes world said:


> It's nice when that happens!



Wish it would happen to me too!


----------



## axhng (Sep 28, 2020)

just got these. initial impressions... K's nameless has a warm sound with full sounding mids. A little warm for my taste (compared to the nicehck traceless), but paid around 4 SGD for it, so no complaints here. Like it more than the KBEAR stellar, which has a warm tuning too but with thinner sounding mids to me.

Jcally EP01 has more of a brighter tuning. Mids can sound a little thin and sounds like they are being pulled towards the higher frequencies. So male vocals sound brighter than they normally do, and even female vocals sounds a little off to me too. I paid closer to 4 SGD from a seller I'm more familiar with, but i've seen it go as cheaper as 2 SGD on shopee.sg. Maybe folks who likes brighter sound signature will like it since the handful of budget buds I've tried mostly seems to be warmer sounding, but I personally would still prefer the nicehck traceless. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## baskingshark

axhng said:


> just got these. initial impressions... K's nameless has a warm sound with full sounding mids. A little warm for my taste (compared to the nicehck traceless), but paid around 4 SGD for it, so no complaints here. Like it more than the KBEAR stellar, which has a warm tuning too but with thinner sounding mids to me.
> 
> Jcally EP01 has more of a brighter tuning. Mids can sound a little thin and sounds like they are being pulled towards the higher frequencies. So male vocals sound brighter than they normally do, and even female vocals sounds a little off to me too. I paid closer to 4 SGD from a seller I'm more familiar with, but i've seen it go as cheaper as 2 SGD on shopee.sg. Maybe folks who likes brighter sound signature will like it since the handful of budget buds I've tried mostly seems to be warmer sounding, but I personally would still prefer the nicehck traceless. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



Thanks for your impressions. Isn't the NiceHCK Traceless the same as the Vido? Perhaps the different Vidos have different tuning, but not sure if unit variation plays a part.


----------



## axhng

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for your impressions. Isn't the NiceHCK Traceless the same as the Vido? Perhaps the different Vidos have different tuning, but not sure if unit variation plays a part.



It should be the same as the Nicehck red and blue version? but it sounds different from the regular vido to me, at least the blue and the black version i have. The traceless seems to have a more neutral tuning and slightly better clarity to me.


----------



## assassin10000

Most of last week I was enjoying these:




They are my own DIY build, using 120Ω beryllium drivers. Since they are higher impedance / lower sensitivity, they do require a bit more power than most cellphones provide.


----------



## Au13

Hey all, first time posting here. I'm looking for a replacement to my Toneking TO400s, had them for a few months but the right ear keeps giving me trouble and I'm not looking to double up and buy another. Hard to really describe a sound for what I need. I mainly use my buds for gaming and voice, the TO400s were great for what I needed. Having a pair with accurate instrument placement and good soundstage is the best I could describe for what I need. A few I've tried that don't work well for me include

pairs like the:
Apple airpods
FAAEL Iris CE &
Monk plus

I used the Smabat St-10s briefly and they were good overall but the positioning was off with the sound. 

I'm hoping to get some suggestions and would appreciate any. Thank you.


----------



## Sam L

axhng said:


> just got these. initial impressions... K's nameless has a warm sound with full sounding mids. A little warm for my taste (compared to the nicehck traceless), but paid around 4 SGD for it, so no complaints here. Like it more than the KBEAR stellar, which has a warm tuning too but with thinner sounding mids to me.
> 
> Jcally EP01 has more of a brighter tuning. Mids can sound a little thin and sounds like they are being pulled towards the higher frequencies. So male vocals sound brighter than they normally do, and even female vocals sounds a little off to me too. I paid closer to 4 SGD from a seller I'm more familiar with, but i've seen it go as cheaper as 2 SGD on shopee.sg. Maybe folks who likes brighter sound signature will like it since the handful of budget buds I've tried mostly seems to be warmer sounding, but I personally would still prefer the nicehck traceless. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


If you're on an android 9+ device, use this file with wavelet and your nameless earbud will sound about 7X better.

**edit**
and will be one of your top earbuds in sound.


----------



## Sam L

Nool said:


> I'm using the eq you posted for the rambo2, it's really nice. Close to what I had but cleaner, I'm going to keep using it. Thanks


Thanks for trying it out! I really like my rambo 2's with that file. A very iem-friendly sound profile after compensation.


----------



## jogawag

Au13 said:


> Hey all, first time posting here. I'm looking for a replacement to my Toneking TO400s, had them for a few months but the right ear keeps giving me trouble and I'm not looking to double up and buy another. Hard to really describe a sound for what I need. I mainly use my buds for gaming and voice, the TO400s were great for what I needed. Having a pair with accurate instrument placement and good soundstage is the best I could describe for what I need. A few I've tried that don't work well for me include
> 
> pairs like the:
> Apple airpods
> ...



Yincrow RW-9 (about $18 at Aliexpress)
Aurvana Air (about $65 at direct shop)

I think you should try the Yincrow RW-9, which has a good reputation for music first, and if it doesn't suit you, you can buy the Aurvana Air, which has a good reputation for gaming as well.
The Aurvana Air comes with a hook, but the hook can be removed by finding a way to do so on the web.


----------



## fonkepala

axhng said:


> just got these. initial impressions... K's nameless has a warm sound with full sounding mids. A little warm for my taste (compared to the nicehck traceless), but paid around 4 SGD for it, so no complaints here. Like it more than the KBEAR stellar, which has a warm tuning too but with thinner sounding mids to me.
> 
> Jcally EP01 has more of a brighter tuning. Mids can sound a little thin and sounds like they are being pulled towards the higher frequencies. So male vocals sound brighter than they normally do, and even female vocals sounds a little off to me too. I paid closer to 4 SGD from a seller I'm more familiar with, but i've seen it go as cheaper as 2 SGD on shopee.sg. Maybe folks who likes brighter sound signature will like it since the handful of budget buds I've tried mostly seems to be warmer sounding, but I personally would still prefer the nicehck traceless. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



I had an immediate dislike for the Traceless the first time I listened to it, but after some time it didn't sound as bad as it did initially.  I much prefer the K's Nameless ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Just goes to show how differently we all hear & how much our preferences differ sometimes.


----------



## axhng (Sep 28, 2020)

fonkepala said:


> I had an immediate dislike for the Traceless the first time I listened to it, but after some time it didn't sound as bad as it did initially.  I much prefer the K's Nameless ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> 
> Just goes to show how differently we all hear & how much our preferences differ sometimes.



haha. indeed, everyone has got different preferences when it comes to sound and listens to different types of music. For me the nameless is still good just that i personally prefer a bit more upper mids. And since all of these are like super cheap, QC might not be as amazing and there might be some variance between units anyway. It does EQ well like Sam has mentioned though.  will probably be using them alongside the traceless as my daily beater buds.


----------



## XP_98

Sam L said:


> If you're on an android 9+ device, use this file with wavelet and your nameless earbud will sound about 7X better.
> 
> **edit**
> and will be one of your top earbuds in sound.


Could it be converted to a eq profile for Neutron ?


----------



## rprodrigues

Hi there.

Is there any replacement for the TC200  for small ears (shell)?

TC200 (FENGRU DIY Tingo), M2 pro,  and Tomahawk here. All hurt me.


----------



## Au13

jogawag said:


> Yincrow RW-9 (about $18 at Aliexpress)
> Aurvana Air (about $65 at direct shop)
> 
> I think you should try the Yincrow RW-9, which has a good reputation for music first, and if it doesn't suit you, you can buy the Aurvana Air, which has a good reputation for gaming as well.
> The Aurvana Air comes with a hook, but the hook can be removed by finding a way to do so on the web.


The Aurvana Air looks interesting, I'll have to take a look into it. I'll probably pick up the RW-9 at some point if it goes on sale, Thanks for the reply!


----------



## Sam L (Sep 28, 2020)

XP_98 said:


> Could it be converted to a eq profile for Neutron ?


yes, let me re-compile the data and output it to a PEQ file.

**edit**
I don't use neutron, so I'm not sure if it can import this PEQ file. You might have to add the settings manually.

Filter 1: ON PK Fc 27 Hz Gain 6.6 dB Q 0.57
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 205 Hz Gain -3.5 dB Q 0.51
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 631 Hz Gain -3.8 dB Q 0.22
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 931 Hz Gain 2.0 dB Q 1.31
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 1517 Hz Gain 4.1 dB Q 1.17
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 3207 Hz Gain 5.8 dB Q 1.88
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 4901 Hz Gain 5.3 dB Q 2.03
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 8953 Hz Gain 5.1 dB Q 2.85
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 13042 Hz Gain -1.9 dB Q 1.25
Filter 10: ON PK Fc 19774 Hz Gain 5.3 dB Q 0.70


----------



## waynes world

Sam L said:


> If you're on an android 9+ device, use this file with wavelet and your nameless earbud will sound about 7X better.
> 
> **edit**
> and will be one of your top earbuds in sound.



I have an S8 (android 9), so I downloaded wavelet, and I'll try out that file when I get the namelesses. I have a lot of learning to do though, because after I start paying a tune with tidal, when I then go into wavelet it says "No new music sessions have been started yet". But I haven't read any documentation yet, so I'm sure it will become obvious.


----------



## Sam L

waynes world said:


> I have an S8 (android 9), so I downloaded wavelet, and I'll try out that file when I get the namelesses. I have a lot of learning to do though, because after I start paying a tune with tidal, when I then go into wavelet it says "No new music sessions have been started yet". But I haven't read any documentation yet, so I'm sure it will become obvious.


Yeah, there are some peculiarities with wavelet and how audio is routed in Android. I think I have it all sort out now. I prob should write something soon. 

Wavelet was more of an experiment to see what I could do to keep my earphones and buds sounding consistent across multiple sources (mainly phones and computers) but I also picked up a sony nw-a105, so figuring out a solution keeps things all on the same page.

Some PEQ implementations were tempting (neutron, hiby music) but in the end making a single set of autoeq files ended up being the most efficient. Thankfully autoeq works seamlessly with wavelet and peace/apo equalizer and with some adjustment on eqmac2


----------



## assassin10000 (Sep 28, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> Hi there.
> 
> Is there any replacement for the TC200  for small ears (shell)?
> 
> TC200 (FENGRU DIY Tingo), M2 pro,  and Tomahawk here. All hurt me.



You should try smaller drivers and search for dimensions. 

A smaller and excellent fitting bud is the K's LB. Has 14.8mm driver and is about 16.1-16.3mm O.D.

Smabat M1 pro (neutralish signature) is 16.1mm O.D. with a 14 or 14.8mm driver vs the M2 Pro which is 16.8mm O.D. and a 15.4mm driver.

Older PK shell drivers (dual vent) like the Yuin PK1 & PK2, Shozy BK, NTT Docomo, etc. that use 14.8mm drivers are also 16.1mm O.D. 


Avoid the newer modified pk style shells (single vent), they are very close to the larger sized mx500 covers at 16.7mm, such as the Nicehck b40.



waynes world said:


> I have an S8 (android 9), so I downloaded wavelet, and I'll try out that file when I get the namelesses. I have a lot of learning to do though, because after I start paying a tune with tidal, when I then go into wavelet it says "No new music sessions have been started yet". But I haven't read any documentation yet, so I'm sure it will become obvious.



Yeah, if the player app doesn't send a signal that it is playing it won't trigger wavelet to work. There is a 'legacy mode' you can turn on to see if it will register it and start working. It is in the menu settings.


----------



## rprodrigues

assassin10000 said:


> You should try smaller drivers and search for dimensions.
> 
> A smaller and excellent fitting bud is the K's LB. Has 14.8mm driver and is about 16.1-16.3mm O.D.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the advice!
I will search for a cheap set using the old Pk1 shells to test the shape/


----------



## wskl

rprodrigues said:


> Thank you for the advice!
> I will search for a cheap set using the old Pk1 shells to test the shape/



A couple of cheap PK shell earbuds I know of are "NICEHCK DIY MX500 PK1" (last 2 options) and "White SR2 16 ohm" (4th option).

Other small earbuds are NiceHCK EB2, Monk Lite, Qian39.


----------



## rprodrigues

wskl said:


> A couple of cheap PK shell earbuds I know of are "NICEHCK DIY MX500 PK1" (last 2 options) and "White SR2 16 ohm" (4th option).
> 
> Other small earbuds are NiceHCK EB2, Monk Lite, Qian39.



I will try the NICEHCK ones...

Thank you!


----------



## XP_98

Sam L said:


> yes, let me re-compile the data and output it to a PEQ file.
> 
> **edit**
> I don't use neutron, so I'm not sure if it can import this PEQ file. You might have to add the settings manually.
> ...


Thank you, I'll try this


----------



## Sam L

XP_98 said:


> Thank you, I'll try this


Please let me know how it turns out. I'm thinking of compiling autoeq and peq files for a bunch of popular buds.


----------



## Sam L

assassin10000 said:


> You should try smaller drivers and search for dimensions.
> 
> A smaller and excellent fitting bud is the K's LB. Has 14.8mm driver and is about 16.1-16.3mm O.D.
> 
> ...


How you memorize all these measurements? Or have them written down on a spreadsheet. I appreciate your info, as always.


----------



## SiggyFraud

waynes world said:


> I have an S8 (android 9), so I downloaded wavelet, and I'll try out that file when I get the namelesses. I have a lot of learning to do though, because after I start paying a tune with tidal, when I then go into wavelet it says "No new music sessions have been started yet". But I haven't read any documentation yet, so I'm sure it will become obvious.


Yeah, Tidal doesn't work with Wavelet, same with UAPP, as it seems.


Spoiler


----------



## assassin10000

Sam L said:


> How you memorize all these measurements? Or have them written down on a spreadsheet. I appreciate your info, as always.



Couldn't say. I just do. For some numbers just stick in my head. For instance I remember the torque spec for a strut fork pinch bolt is 32 ft lbs on one of my cars, on a different car lower knuckle to strut bolt is 58 ft lbs, carrier bearing cap on a differential is 70 ft lbs, camshaft cap is 7 ft lbs and many others... I also know my trucks vin # but not the license plate for some reason lol.



But earbuds are easy, the majority are either 15.4mm drivers which are 16.8-16.9mm or smaller 14.8mm drivers which are 16.1-16.3mm typically.

I do have them saved as well as posted in this thread. I've searched for my own post in the past.


----------



## Sam L

SiggyFraud said:


> Yeah, Tidal doesn't work with Wavelet, same with UAPP, as it seems.
> 
> 
> Spoiler


It's picky with tidal but works on lg v60 and pixel 4xl. Tested just now in those phones. 

- prep wavelet. Tap Legacy mode to access features. Select your autoeq profile but do not enable autoeq. Unselect graphics eq. Unselect legacy mode. 

- close out tidal by clearing it from your recents list. 

- open tidal 

- open Wavlet and tap Legacy mode

- tap autoeq

Profit. 

For some reason with tidal, the wavelet features are not very responsive. On other apps I can toggle things back and forth to note differences in sound. With tidal I cannot do this. You have to wait for some time to pass before clicking on Legacy mode to hear the features kick in.


----------



## Admor

hey, guys!

I guess I must officialy confess that I am a total earbud fan. Audiophile since ages, with XX loudspeakers and XX amps.. full-size headphones only around ten or so, with IEMs... I guess around three pairs I had. Just cannot grow to like them, just not my thing. As for earbuds.. VE Monk Plus are in my pocket. But yeah, having mid-end gear with speakers 4k$-ish.. my ears are carving for more.

FiiO BTR5 is my great friend.

Looking for eabuds - budget 100-200$. 

Preference? Neultral with just a little pinch of warmth. Must-have? MMCX connector. I regret producers are not using them always.. it is a pity. With much sport and caffeine.. I can get very fast sometimes and by fast I mean not careful moving with high speed, obviously with headphones plugged in.. then moving around, bang, cable is hooked on something.. yeah, ripped out of the headphones. Headphones dead. Happened too many times  DE-TA-CHA-BLE. Always.

First guesses after little research? Astrotec Lyra Nature. SMABAT ST-10S. BGVP DX5 maybe?

Thanks in advance, wish you all the best!


----------



## Sam L

Admor said:


> hey, guys!
> 
> I guess I must officialy confess that I am a total earbud fan. Audiophile since ages, with XX loudspeakers and XX amps.. full-size headphones only around ten or so, with IEMs... I guess around three pairs I had. Just cannot grow to like them, just not my thing. As for earbuds.. VE Monk Plus are in my pocket. But yeah, having mid-end gear with speakers 4k$-ish.. my ears are carving for more.
> 
> ...



what's your typical source for your monk plus'? iPhone? android?


----------



## Sam L

OK. I had a brief distraction with the aq7 and lz a7. both great iems, sent the aq7 back and keeping the lz a7, but going forth I'm pretty much re-focusing on buds!


----------



## baskingshark

Admor said:


> hey, guys!
> 
> I guess I must officialy confess that I am a total earbud fan. Audiophile since ages, with XX loudspeakers and XX amps.. full-size headphones only around ten or so, with IEMs... I guess around three pairs I had. Just cannot grow to like them, just not my thing. As for earbuds.. VE Monk Plus are in my pocket. But yeah, having mid-end gear with speakers 4k$-ish.. my ears are carving for more.
> 
> ...



You can consider these (all have MMCX connectors):
1) SMABAT ST10 (original) - neutralish with subbass boost. Good technicalities. A bit cold in tonality in the mids.
2) SMABAT M2 Pro - has 2 tuning modules and different silicone covers/foams to tune the sound signature, can be neutralish bright to V shaped. If u are adventerous u can also solder drivers on to change the driver, they give different sound signatures. Above average technicalities, good timbre. I generally use it with full foams and the V shaped tuning module, so it is quite warm with good thickness to the mids. Unfortunately, there's a slight midbass bleed with it.
3) SMABAT ST10S Black Gold - neutralish with subbass boost also. Better technicalities than original ST10, but slightly smaller soundstage. Subbass is even more boosted than ST10 (original). Not as harsh in the upper mids region as ST10. Needs amping, 150 ohm impedance doesn't sound good from low powered smart phones. Fiio BTR5 should be able to drive it.

For the SMABAT ST10 Black Silver, I haven't tried it, but a few friends I asked said it is inferior to the Black Gold, and apparently there's 2 version on the market, one was a retuned set that released later, so there is some doubt in which set u can potentially get.


----------



## assassin10000

Admor said:


> hey, guys!
> 
> I guess I must officialy confess that I am a total earbud fan. Audiophile since ages, with XX loudspeakers and XX amps.. full-size headphones only around ten or so, with IEMs... I guess around three pairs I had. Just cannot grow to like them, just not my thing. As for earbuds.. VE Monk Plus are in my pocket. But yeah, having mid-end gear with speakers 4k$-ish.. my ears are carving for more.
> 
> ...



Original ST-10. 

Or perhaps RW-1000 bass, which I haven't heard but another user here preferred over the ST-10S black gold.


Dx5 is colder tonality and bass light according to others. Search this thread, I think a member or two mentioned this previously.


----------



## Sam L (Sep 30, 2020)

Admor said:


> hey, guys!
> 
> I guess I must officialy confess that I am a total earbud fan. Audiophile since ages, with XX loudspeakers and XX amps.. full-size headphones only around ten or so, with IEMs... I guess around three pairs I had. Just cannot grow to like them, just not my thing. As for earbuds.. VE Monk Plus are in my pocket. But yeah, having mid-end gear with speakers 4k$-ish.. my ears are carving for more.
> 
> ...


Honestly, I don't recommend any earbud over $20 until you've dialed in fit and sound expectations.

I totally get the detachable cord need but if you're local to China or southeast Asia you could pick up, for example, 30 K's nameless buds for $65 and throw them out as they get caught on stuff or break down from rough handling.

And they sound good, even better with the compensation file I posted awhile back.

To my ears, the compensated K's nameless sound better than the $100 smabat s-10s black/silver out of the box.

Back to the point of first trying out the sub $20 buds, this is a common pattern that we're all guilty of - coming from headphones or iems and translating a certain level of spend with sound quality. Earbuds blows that completely out of the water.

**edit**
I forget who, but someone compiled a summary of the various sizes of buds.


----------



## Admor

Regarding, RW1000Bass: 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15584151

Regarding DX5 - thanks, that is what I do not like.

Regarding ST10, I do not like cold mids, harsh upper mids. Yeah, everyone likes subbas, but it is just a part of music.. and when mids are cold, bass plays little role to me.

Regarding Astrotec, why nobody is commenting on these? I read all reviews praising them, from what I read, that is exactly sound signature I love.

Regarding ST10S, they remain to be now the only alternative to Astrotec: neultralish with full mids and delicate, yet transparent treble.

Regarding size, I do not care. VE Monk+ is okay, I guess. 

Regarding earbuds non-detachable, I say: never.

Regarding alternatives, anyone? Is there anybody with memory or in possesion of these two and can provide objective comparison?

Regarding being local, no, totally I am not, I live in Poland and partly Switzterland. Wanna see the Alps?

Best Regards, Adam


----------



## assassin10000

Admor said:


> Regarding, RW1000Bass:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15584151
> 
> Regarding DX5 - thanks, that is what I do not like.
> ...



Original ST-10 I don't find cold. Neutral with a bit of warmth. Bass focused but not as much sub-bass as the newer ST-10S black gold (it has a sharper 2k spike).

I posted its graph here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15879616

It has 9-10db pinna gain which I don't find harsh but you may. 12db is where it's too much for me for long usage (4+ hours) and 8db seems a bit smoothed over depending on the song. Ymmv.


ST-10S (black silver) early version was reported cold but was re-tuned.


If you are ok with 2-pin cables there is also the Rose Maria and Masya mk2 iirc.


Hope you find what matches your preferences.


----------



## cappuchino (Sep 30, 2020)

Just pulled the trigger on the K's Nameless and Red Vido. The two together just come a hair over 4 USD (2.40 Nameless + 1.75 Vido) and used a coupon for free shipping. Should arrive after a week. Excited for my first pairs of buds 😋


----------



## fonkepala

sub30 said:


> Just pulled the trigger on the K's Nameless and Red Vido. The two together just come a hair over 4 USD (2.40 Nameless + 1.75 Vido) and used a coupon for free shipping. Should arrive after a week. Excited for my first pairs of buds 😋



Grats! You're going to love 'em!


----------



## fonkepala

Admor said:


> Regarding Astrotec, why nobody is commenting on these? I read all reviews praising them, from what I read, that is exactly sound signature I love.





I'm going to echo what some are saying to you here. Try some of the lower end/budget buds before going for the more expensive stuff. Price does not equate to higher SQ, especially in the earbuds game.


----------



## cappuchino

Does anyone have an equalizer setting for Vidos? Or is it not advisable?


----------



## Admor (Sep 30, 2020)

fonkepala said:


> I'm going to echo what some are saying to you here. Try some of the lower end/budget buds before going for the more expensive stuff. Price does not equate to higher SQ, especially in the earbuds game.



you totally suprised me. What... there are even reviews on head-fi saying opposite. I also found porta.fi in russian.. and this guy is saying also the same good things - opposed to this review you linked. I think this guy did not burn them it.. or received defective pair.

So you all sayin that spending more does not make sense? 

Let's say I still want to spend more. I have birthday in few days, wanna buy myself a present 

So now.. is only Rose is left on the field of earbud worth the money? It would be actually very cool as my three years old daughter has been named by us with the name of this flower


----------



## Sam L (Sep 30, 2020)

Admor said:


> you totally suprised me. What... there are even reviews on head-fi saying opposite. I also found porta.fi in russian.. and this guy is saying also the same good things - opposed to this review you linked. I think this guy did not burn them it.. or received defective pair.
> 
> So you all sayin that spending more does not make sense?
> 
> ...


wow, this review is pretty damaging for anyone considering the lyra. I'm sorry you're not getting the response you want. I'd message @ClieOS and ask him what he thinks of the astrotec lyra's. He pretty much has every earbud ever released. He no longer participates in this channel but has always been very helpful in getting a quick take on an earbud.


----------



## fonkepala (Sep 30, 2020)

Admor said:


> you totally suprised me. What... there are even reviews on head-fi saying opposite. I also found porta.fi in russian.. and this guy is saying also the same good things - opposed to this review you linked. I think this guy did not burn them it.. or received defective pair.
> 
> So you all sayin that spending more does not make sense?
> 
> Let's say I still want to spend more. I have birthday in few days, wanna buy myself a present



Regarding the Astrotec Lyra Nature review on Youtube that I linked to, you could choose to take it at face value or, perhaps more sensibly, you can also choose to take it with a grain of salt & be conservative about the reviewer's views. YMMV. Your experience with the Lyra (should you choose to buy it) might be different compared to his. After all, we all hear differently, have different ear anatomies, sound signature preferences, etc.

Regarding spending more, I don't think that we're trying to say it doesn't make sense. I was trying to impress upon you the fact that the effects of diminishing returns kick in real early on with earbuds especially, as compared to IEM's, headphones, speakers, etc. So if you're new, it might be more sensible to spend a little bit of money on the cheaper buds to get a feel for how they sound like, for how they fit in your ears, for what kind of sound you prefer and so on. IMHO, you won't know what you want until you've at least bought & tried some. Saying that you have a speaker system costing in excess of $4k tells us nothing about what kind of earbuds you will likely be happy with.

If you want to spend more and go right to 'end game' buds, hey it's your call, it's your money and it's your birthday! The latter in particular is worth spending a bit extra on, I'm sure  Go to town! Enjoy!

If you're asking me, my personal 'end game' (urrghh I hate using this term) bud right now is one of the Blur earbuds from Wong Kuan Wae on FB. But that's just me. However, you're out of luck with Blur earbuds if you're dead set on a de-tach-ab-le cable always


----------



## fonkepala

sub30 said:


> Does anyone have an equalizer setting for Vidos? Or is it not advisable?



Which color Vido? I have a PEQ setting for the black Vido that I was quite happy with.


----------



## RikudouGoku

fonkepala said:


> Regarding the Astrotec Lyra Nature review on Youtube that I linked to, you could choose to take it at face value or, perhaps more sensibly, you can also choose to take it with a grain of salt & be conservative about the reviewer's views. YMMV. Your experience with the Lyra (should you choose to buy it) might be different compared to his. After all, we all hear differently, have different ear anatomies, sound signature preferences, etc.
> 
> Regarding spending more, I don't think that we're trying to say it doesn't make sense. I was trying to impress upon you the fact that the effects of diminishing returns kick in real early on with earbuds especially, as compared to IEM's, headphones, speakers, etc. So if you're new, it might be more sensible to spend a little bit of money on the cheaper buds to get a feel for how they sound like, for how they fit in your ears, for what kind of sound you prefer and so on. IMHO, you won't know what you want until you've at least bought & tried some. Saying that you have a speaker system costing in excess of $4k tells us nothing about what kind of earbuds you will likely be happy with.
> 
> ...


agreed, and you have to take into consideration that, that reviewer doesnt seem to have much experience with earbuds at all. I could only find 1 single earbud review on his channel and coming from iems that he is mostly reviewing is very different from earbuds.


----------



## fonkepala

RikudouGoku said:


> agreed, and you have to take into consideration that, that reviewer doesnt seem to have much experience with earbuds at all. I could only find 1 single earbud review on his channel and coming from iems that he is mostly reviewing is very different from earbuds.



Yup. In retrospect I probably shouldn't have linked that video review here but it was the first one that came up when I did a Youtube search  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Anyway, I forgot to add, diminishing returns with regard to earbuds isn't a hard and fast 'rule', rather it's more of a common experience thingy. There are exceptions, of course. I bet @Sam L loves his $300 Fiio EM5 to bits and that's perfectly understandable because by all accounts I've read/seen so far, it's an awesome pair of earbuds *despite* the price


----------



## Sam L

fonkepala said:


> Yup. In retrospect I probably shouldn't have linked that video review here but it was the first one that came up when I did a Youtube search  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> 
> Anyway, I forgot to add, diminishing returns with regard to earbuds isn't a hard and fast 'rule', rather it's more of a common experience thingy. There are exceptions, of course. I bet @Sam L loves his $300 Fiio EM5 to bits and that's perfectly understandable because by all accounts I've read/seen so far, it's an awesome pair of earbuds *despite* the price


That's actually a good proof point, the EM5, regarding the steep diminishing returns with buds. There is no linear price to value ratio when targeting 90% of the performance of something like the em5 (and likely the turandot, etc.).

The biggest, glaring weakness in really "liking an earbud" is its default tuning. Perhaps for those of us who never really got into IEMs, the transition is not that striking. But lately (last 1-2 years), it seems most of the incredible-for-the-price chi-fi IEMs target Harman or something close to it. We don't see that tendency at all with buds. From my still limited experience, I'm seeing 80% of the buds I get to be tuned bass boosted that bloom into the lower mids in pronounced manner. 20% have neutralish bass with good emphasis on upper mids.

This is why I'm such a big fan of "modding" the sound via eq. All of these buds after compensating with oratory1990 target is 90% of my em5:
- K's nameless
- rw9
- me80
- monk lite 120ohm
- bk2
- rambo 2


----------



## rprodrigues

Sam L said:


> ...
> - rambo 2




Don't you think Rambo II is veiled?


----------



## cappuchino

fonkepala said:


> Which color Vido? I have a PEQ setting for the black Vido that I was quite happy with.


I've got the red ones. Though I'm not sure if the colour variance still applies in 2020. May I have the setting? Thanks!


----------



## Sam L

rprodrigues said:


> Don't you think Rambo II is veiled?


Yes, it sort of is but once you bring down the lower mids and raise the upper mids a smidge it cleans up nicely. I posted an autoeq file some pages back. I can also put up a peq file if you want.


----------



## rprodrigues

Sam L said:


> Yes, it sort of is but once you bring down the lower mids and raise the upper mids a smidge it cleans up nicely. I posted an autoeq file some pages back. I can also put up a peq file if you want.



Thank you, but I don't EQ them.


----------



## inbusiness

Can anyone recommend an earbud that have shell size similar to PK?

I kinda want to add some TOTL earbud to mycollection, I have tried Fiio EM5/Moondrop Liebesledied but both are too big to get a good fit in my ear.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 1, 2020)

inbusiness said:


> Can anyone recommend an earbud that have shell size similar to PK?
> 
> I kinda want to add some TOTL earbud to mycollection, I have tried Fiio EM5/Moondrop Liebesledied but both are too big to get a good fit in my ear.



I would recommend the SIMPHONIO DRAGON 3 to you. I think this is the best of the famous and major PK type earbuds.
I had the SIMPHONIO DRAGON 2+ a generation ago and it was great, so I think this one is even better.

https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/simphonio-dragon-3.html


----------



## SiggyFraud

Sam L said:


> If you're on an android 9+ device, use this file with wavelet and your nameless earbud will sound about 7X better.
> 
> **edit**
> and will be one of your top earbuds in sound.


Sorry for the noob question, but how exactly do I use this file?
I got music playing via Spotify, K's Nameless connected and Wavelet open. I successfully import the file thorugh AutoEq, but... nothing's happening? The eq line is flat, headphone model shows as empty and I don't hear any changes in sound.


----------



## fonkepala

sub30 said:


> I've got the red ones. Though I'm not sure if the colour variance still applies in 2020. May I have the setting? Thanks!



From my experience with Vidos, yes there are variations in sound signature across the different colours. I don't have my Qudelix 5K handy at the moment (the PEQ settings are stored on it). I'll PM you the settings once I do.


----------



## cappuchino

fonkepala said:


> From my experience with Vidos, yes there are variations in sound signature across the different colours. I don't have my Qudelix 5K handy at the moment (the PEQ settings are stored on it). I'll PM you the settings once I do.


Thanks!!!


----------



## inbusiness

jogawag said:


> I would recommend the SIMPHONIO DRAGON 3 to you. I think this is the best of the famous and major PK type earbuds.
> I had the SIMPHONIO DRAGON 2+ a generation ago and it was great, so I think this one is even better.
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/simphonio-dragon-3.html


Thank you, I going to try the demo unit at my local store this weekend.
Already read some reviews this buds sound really excting.


----------



## Sam L

SiggyFraud said:


> Sorry for the noob question, but how exactly do I use this file?
> I got music playing via Spotify, K's Nameless connected and Wavelet open. I successfully import the file thorugh AutoEq, but... nothing's happening? The eq line is flat, headphone model shows as empty and I don't hear any changes in sound.


Yeah it's not intuitive. The last step is to do a search for the imported file. You might have to toggle between legacy mode after selecting the file.


----------



## SiggyFraud

Sam L said:


> Yeah it's not intuitive. The last step is to do a search for the imported file. You might have to toggle between legacy mode after selecting the file.


Finally got it to work. Thanks!


----------



## Sam L

SiggyFraud said:


> Finally got it to work. Thanks!


If you click on the autoeq graph you can select strength. Most buds will not tolerate anything above 60 percent, depending on your source.


----------



## XP_98 (Oct 1, 2020)

Sam L said:


> That's actually a good proof point, the EM5, regarding the steep diminishing returns with buds. There is no linear price to value ratio when targeting 90% of the performance of something like the em5 (and likely the turandot, etc.).
> 
> The biggest, glaring weakness in really "liking an earbud" is its default tuning. Perhaps for those of us who never really got into IEMs, the transition is not that striking. But lately (last 1-2 years), it seems most of the incredible-for-the-price chi-fi IEMs target Harman or something close to it. We don't see that tendency at all with buds. From my still limited experience, I'm seeing 80% of the buds I get to be tuned bass boosted that bloom into the lower mids in pronounced manner. 20% have neutralish bass with good emphasis on upper mids.
> 
> ...


Can you please share your "Neutron compatible eq" for me80 and Bk2 ?
Nameless arrived today, burning in for the moment...
And as I also have Monk+ SL, would also be curious about your Monk lite eq...


----------



## Sam L

XP_98 said:


> Can you please share your "Neutron compatible eq" for me80 and Bk2 ?
> Nameless arrived today, burning in for the moment...
> And as I also have Monk+ SL, would also be curious about your Monk lite eq...


Hmm... I haven't made it a regular practice to compile peq files along with my geq and autoeq files. I guess I should do so from now. 

If I could get a group of our buds users to use wavelet, with a single bud (or 2) for test ourposes, I can take a poll as to whether you prefer harman target or oratory. I'm also thinking of using toranku target.


----------



## cappuchino

wskl said:


> Smabat are also selling a M2 DIY model where you have to do the assembly and soldering yourself.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Just saw this and realized Aliexpress is EXTREMELY OVERPRICED! Got my mind blown on the price...

On Aliexpress - Smabat/JCALLY EP05 selling for USD 48.00
On Shopee - Smabat JCALLY EP05 selling for USD 9.00 (https://shopee.ph/JCALLY-EP05-High-...y-OFC-Earbuds-earphone-i.296110688.7754307323)


----------



## rprodrigues

wskl said:


> A couple of cheap PK shell earbuds I know of are "NICEHCK DIY MX500 PK1" (last 2 options) and "White SR2 16 ohm" (4th option).
> 
> Other small earbuds are NiceHCK EB2, Monk Lite, Qian39.




The PK1 shell did the trick! 
Thank you.


----------



## knightaz

Received my ME80 and Rambo II this week. The ME80 is fantastic. I absolutely love it. The Rambo II on the other hand is a major disappointment. I can't get a good fit with it but even when I shove them in my ears the sound is muddy. Definitely regret the purchase. Great build quality on both of them though.


----------



## knightaz

sub30 said:


> Just saw this and realized Aliexpress is EXTREMELY OVERPRICED! Got my mind blown on the price...
> 
> On Aliexpress - Smabat/JCALLY EP05 selling for USD 48.00
> On Shopee - Smabat JCALLY EP05 selling for USD 9.00 (https://shopee.ph/JCALLY-EP05-High-...y-OFC-Earbuds-earphone-i.296110688.7754307323)



Does Shopee ship internationally?


----------



## rprodrigues

knightaz said:


> Received my ME80 and Rambo II this week. The ME80 is fantastic. I absolutely love it. The Rambo II on the other hand is a major disappointment. I can't get a good fit with it but even when I shove them in my ears the sound is muddy. Definitely regret the purchase. Great build quality on both of them though.



You are not alone, unfortunately.

Rambo II is a disaster for me. They are veiled. I regret the purchase too and I will try to return them.


----------



## Sam L (Oct 2, 2020)

XP_98 said:


> Can you please share your "Neutron compatible eq" for me80 and Bk2 ?
> Nameless arrived today, burning in for the moment...
> And as I also have Monk+ SL, would also be curious about your Monk lite eq...


I didn't compile one for the me80 yet, and to be honest, it doesn't need it. the default tuning of the me80 is fantastic. I'll still build one and I'll be sure to post it here when I do.

I'll eventually get around to building a peq and wavelet file for the monk+. I don't have the sl version, though. 

**edit**
adding monk lite 120 peq file


----------



## Sam L (Oct 2, 2020)

RikudouGoku said:


> Well here is my review on the NiceHCK DIY MX500: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-diy-mx500.24457/reviews#item-review-23882
> 
> makes moondrop look like an overpriced brand...


lol... going back to find an old post and just saw this. Yes, that diy mx500 is very under-rated. love mine


----------



## Sam L (Oct 2, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> You are not alone, unfortunately.
> 
> Rambo II is a disaster for me. They are veiled. I regret the purchase too and I will try to return them.


@knightaz

A couple things:

1. Fit. The Rambo 2's are fairly heavy. I too was pretty disappointed with the fit as I got them because of the mmcx only to find when I use any decent cable the buds would displace too easily or fall out. At @assassin10000 's suggestion, I wear many of my buds with the cable over the ear.

2. Sound. The veiled sound stems from two things, the mid-bass bleed and the relaxed upper mids.

Here's the compensation curve the Rambo 2's require:




Here are the files that do this.


----------



## onedvt

Sam L said:


> I didn't compile one for the me80 yet, and to be honest, it doesn't need it. the default tuning of the me80 is fantastic. I'll still build one and I'll be sure to post it here when I do.
> 
> I'll eventually get around to building a peq and wavelet file for the monk+. I don't have the sl version, though.
> 
> ...


Do you mind sharing the autoeq file for the monk lite 120s?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> lol... going back to find an old post and just saw this. Yes, that diy mx500 is very under-rated. love mine


Agreed, If I were to pick 2 buds out of the ones I have to keep. It would be the MX500 and the Yincrow X6 (review is coming up soon on it).


----------



## Sam L

onedvt said:


> Do you mind sharing the autoeq file for the monk lite 120s?


----------



## Sam L

enjoy! The monk lite 120ohms were already a great bud to begin with, but I appreciate the leaner mid bass and better clarity these compensation files bring.


----------



## RikudouGoku (Oct 2, 2020)

Yincrow X6 review: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/yincrow-x6.22393/reviews#item-review-24443

Rank: S

Nr 1 earbud rec at the moment.  

Will probably get the RW-9 during 11/11.


EDIT: NiceHCK B40 rank from A to B.


----------



## fonkepala (Oct 2, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> You are not alone, unfortunately.
> 
> Rambo II is a disaster for me. They are veiled. I regret the purchase too and I will try to return them.



Might be worth checking out the Hessian Ansata. Made by the same guy behind Rambo & Ourart. It even looks quite similar to the Rambo II except for a few minor details (so disregard if you're having fit issues). Cheaper as well. The tuning is also purported to be different than the Rambo II. One drawback is that it's not available on AE (I think) but is instead available on Taobao. Unfortunately, mine has yet to be burned in so I'll have to hold off judgement.


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Yincrow X6 review: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/yincrow-x6.22393/reviews#item-review-24443
> 
> Rank: S
> 
> ...


you need to run my autoeq file on the k's nameless.   cleanest basshead sound profile on a bud ever. The bass is not the cleanest but the overall profile is clean and the bass is tastefully monstrous, and I am not a basshead. I can see why many of us are drawn to a more "fun" sound from time to time.

Agreed on the x6. I still have yet to compare my x6 and rw9. I got distracted by the lz a7


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> you need to run my autoeq file on the k's nameless.   cleanest basshead sound profile on a bud ever. The bass is not the cleanest but the overall profile is clean and the bass is tastefully monstrous, and I am not a basshead. I can see why many of us are drawn to a more "fun" sound from time to time.
> 
> Agreed on the x6. I still have yet to compare my x6 and rw9. I got distracted by the lz a7


Dont use autoeq, but if you can give me the settings you changed I can try. (I use the Neutron Player)


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Yincrow X6 review: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/yincrow-x6.22393/reviews#item-review-24443
> 
> Rank: S
> 
> ...


heahea... I'm laughing at turandot comparison, didn't know you had it in your possession, always thought it was from testing it out. Now I'm really, really glad I didn't get the turandot.


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Dont use autoeq, but if you can give me the settings you changed I can try. (I use the Neutron Player)


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> heahea... I'm laughing at turandot comparison, didn't know you had it in your possession, always thought it was from testing it out. Now I'm really, really glad I didn't get the turandot.


Oh how I wished I could have tested it before I got it...sadly cant test anything being in sweden....

I guess you could tell how I lost hope in it the deeper I got with it lol.


----------



## onedvt

Sam L said:


> enjoy! The monk lite 120ohms were already a great bud to begin with, but I appreciate the leaner mid bass and better clarity these compensation files bring.


Cheers! much appreciated.


----------



## Sam L

fonkepala said:


> Might be worth checking out the Hessian Ansata. Made by the same guy behind Rambo & Ourart. It even looks quite similar to the Rambo II except for a few minor details (so disregard if you're having fit issues). Cheaper as well. The tuning is also purported to be different than the Rambo II. One drawback is that it's not available on AE (I think) but is instead available on Taobao. Unfortunately, mine has yet to be burned in so I'll have to hold off judgement.


very cool, please share observations when you're ready.

did a google search and look what turns up:




pretty sure clieos has every earbud ever made and ever will be made.


----------



## Sam L

onedvt said:


> Cheers! much appreciated.


in all honesty, that bud when eq'd properly has near endgame sound for me. the 120 ohm has a very unique stage presentation to begin with and after the mid bloat is dealt with the sound stage opens up considerably


----------



## fonkepala

Sam L said:


> very cool, please share observations when you're ready.
> 
> did a google search and look what turns up:
> 
> ...





BTW, here's the link to the Hessian Ansata: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=624582501708


----------



## RikudouGoku

@Sam L  Tried your EQ for the nameless and honestly I think it is better on stock since it has better tonality and sounds more natural. Also, i dont know if autoeq adjusts the preamp automatic for you, but otherwise you need a preamp of at least -6.6 db because the bass is distorting a lot..


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> @Sam L  Tried your EQ for the nameless and honestly I think it is better on stock since it has better tonality and sounds more natural. Also, i dont know if autoeq adjusts the preamp automatic for you, but otherwise you need a preamp of at least -6.6 db because the bass is distorting a lot..


yeah unfortunately autoeq doesn't adjust preamp with the settings I had when compiling the file. wavelet's version of adjusting preamp is with "autoeq strength" which I have to set at 50% to avoid distortion. if I had to guess, it's a pretty significant preamp cut in the neighborhood of -10db.


----------



## onedvt

Sam L said:


> in all honesty, that bud when eq'd properly has near endgame sound for me. the 120 ohm has a very unique stage presentation to begin with and after the mid bloat is dealt with the sound stage opens up considerably


what music app do you use it with? managed to import the file but the autoeq isn't kicking in on UAPP, Hiby or Fiio


----------



## Sam L

onedvt said:


> what music app do you use it with? managed to import the file but the autoeq isn't kicking in on UAPP, Hiby or Fiio


For those of you getting stuck with wavelet (it has a couple non-intuitive quirks)

1. save the file anywhere on your phone. ie. /downloads
2. click on autoeq
3. import the file
4. note, the imported file will not show on the pick list until you do a search and then select the recently imported file.
5. profit.
6. if you are getting distortion (source dependent), then click on the autoeq frequency visualization and it will allow you to pick strength. On my note 10 and pixel 4xl, I rarely see buds go above 60 to 70% before distorting badly. IEMs fair much better but do not necessarily sound better, so my autoeq strength ranges from 25% to 75% for the majority of my iems and buds.

Important: (@onedvt)
The audio pathing in android will occasionally mess with wavelet. If you notice the sound is not affected do this:

1. play stream/music app
2. open wavelet and make sure autoeq is check
3. make sure the appropriate autoeq file is selected
4. make sure "legacy mode" is checked in the 3 dot menu, upper right
5. using the "recent apps" button, close out the streaming/music app (while it's still playing)
6. reopen the streaming/music app and restart playing
7. profit


----------



## Sam L

onedvt said:


> what music app do you use it with? managed to import the file but the autoeq isn't kicking in on UAPP, Hiby or Fiio


Try the instructions I just posted. Unfortunately, there are differences in how various manufacturers implement the audio pathing in android. UAPP and Hiby work with wavelet for me on a LG v60. I haven't switch back to my pixel 4xl or note 10 yet to test out on those devices, as I mainly use Spotify on those two phones.


----------



## waynes world

@Sam L helped me get the Monk Lite 120 wavelet eq file imported into my phone and get it working. Thanks Sam!

I know that this is OT, but I'm posting my response to Sam in the spoiler below just in case anyone is interested.



Spoiler: Wavelet thoughts on Samsung S8



I have the monk 120's plugged directly into my phone (I usually use the Fiio BTR3K). Listening to Tidal.

I usually have the Samsung Music "Adapt sound - 30 to 60 years old" turned on which makes everything sound better to me. But I have turned it off to reduce factors (music goes back to sounding "blah").

The wavelet autoeq definitely enhances the sound. Sounds way better than stock. Nice.

And if I turn back on the "Adapt sound - 30 to 60 years old" on top of the Autoeq, it makes a positive difference as well, (although at this point I'm not sure if it is just "louder").

Summary:

(1) Everything off: blah and veiled sounding

(2) only Adapt sound on: much better than (1)

(3) only Autoeq only on: sounds very good! Better than (2).

(4) Autoeq and Adapt sound on: might be even better than (3), but more listening required.

Either way, Autoeq is making the biggest difference.

I'm not usually into EQing because I don't like farting around when switching headphones (aka I'm lazy), but this might change my mind.

Thanks for your help!



Bottom line is that I am really enjoying the 120's right now. And that's what it's all about!


----------



## waynes world

Sam L said:


> you need to run my autoeq file on the k's nameless.  cleanest basshead sound profile on a bud ever. The bass is not the cleanest but the overall profile is clean and the bass is tastefully monstrous, and I am not a basshead. *I can see why many of us are drawn to a more "fun" sound from time to time*.



From time to time?


----------



## kadas152

Anyone tried Smabat M2 Pro with ST10s Gold driver in them?
Would be pretty cheap way of getting ST10s like sound for about half the price using DIY kit...


----------



## cappuchino

knightaz said:


> Does Shopee ship internationally?


I think it's a per country thing. Ships from China or your local store. I know South East Asian countries have them. Not sure with Oceania.


----------



## rprodrigues (Oct 2, 2020)

kadas152 said:


> Anyone tried Smabat M2 Pro with ST10s Gold driver in them?
> Would be pretty cheap way of getting ST10s like sound for about half the price using DIY kit...



I did but since I haven't tested the ST10s Gold, I don't know how close they are. Anyway, for me they are better than my Musicmaker Tomahawk and ISN Rambo II.


----------



## baskingshark

rprodrigues said:


> I did but since I haven't tested the ST10s Gold, I don't know how close they are. Anyway, for me they are better than my Musicmaker Tomahawk and ISN Rambo II.



Nice, did u buy the soldering kit and all and put it in yourself?




kadas152 said:


> Anyone tried Smabat M2 Pro with ST10s Gold driver in them?
> Would be pretty cheap way of getting ST10s like sound for about half the price using DIY kit...



I have poor soldering skills, so I didn't try that, but I would think even if one puts a ST10S black gold driver into the M2 Pro's shell, they may still sound different. Cause of the different shell shape/size, damping materials, shell materials etc, all these have an effect on the sound signature. But if it gets u to 70 - 80% of the ST10S Black gold's performance, then definitely yeah, good deal to do so for half the price.


----------



## rprodrigues (Oct 2, 2020)

@baskingshark
I used my soldering kit to assembly the m2 pro. It is easy.


----------



## Sam L (Oct 2, 2020)

waynes world said:


> @Sam L helped me get the Monk Lite 120 wavelet eq file imported into my phone and get it working. Thanks Sam!
> 
> I know that this is OT, but I'm posting my response to Sam in the spoiler below just in case anyone is interested.
> 
> ...



I forgot about Samsung's sound adapt. I think it's really under-rated. At one point, I used to make Samsung custom profiles for each iem.

I think ve monk fans might find the dramatic difference too much. But I think it sounds significantly better.

Any other monk lite 120 ohm owners with android devices willing to give a shot? @onedvt ?


----------



## theresanarc

For earbuds in the  16Ω  - 32Ω range, would a DAC under $100 make any difference when playing from a phone or laptop? Or would a FiiO $100ish mp3 player be better?


----------



## baskingshark

theresanarc said:


> For earbuds in the  16Ω  - 32Ω range, would a DAC under $100 make any difference when playing from a phone or laptop? Or would a FiiO $100ish mp3 player be better?



My 2 cents is that a dongle DAC/AMP like the Tempotec Sonata HD Pro ($30ish USD) to a phone is more cost effective than a DAP. It can give almost the same sound quality as my desktop setup, just that it can't drive more demanding stuff, so for 16 - 32 ohm stuff in general, that is sufficient. Bringing a second device (DAP) on the go is also a bit inconvenient.

Only 2 problems are that:
1) Battery life of phone is limiting factor, some of these dongles can drain phone battery quite fast. If u have some charging ability on the go, that's good.
2) Memory is another limiting factor for phone, especially if u use a lot of lossless files. Some phones can't utilize memory cards so YMMV.

I do find my Tempotec Sonata HD Pro has better soundstage, details and instrument separation than my humble smart phone, so I don't mind bringing it along when on the go.


----------



## cappuchino

baskingshark said:


> My 2 cents is that a dongle DAC/AMP like the Tempotec Sonata HD Pro ($30ish USD) to a phone is more cost effective than a DAP. It can give almost the same sound quality as my desktop setup, just that it can't drive more demanding stuff, so for 16 - 32 ohm stuff in general, that is sufficient. Bringing a second device (DAP) on the go is also a bit inconvenient.
> 
> Only 2 problems are that:
> 1) Battery life of phone is limiting factor, some of these dongles can drain phone battery quite fast. If u have some charging ability on the go, that's good.
> ...


Can the Sonata HD Pro power 320 ohm decently?


----------



## baskingshark (Oct 3, 2020)

sub30 said:


> Can the Sonata HD Pro power 320 ohm decently?



Nope. Tempotec sonata HD Pro can go up to 2V output but has an auto gain setting based on the impedance of the connected transducer (it can be tricked to go to the max power output by putting a 3.5 mm to 3.5 mm adapter). Even when "tricked" it can play 300 ohm stuff, but not optimal in terms of sound. The music sounds very very flat with higher impedance stuff. I think 150 ohm is also pushing it. Best to keep it to less power hungry IEMs and buds.

There's other dongles that can power 300 ohm stuff though, so u can look around on Aliexpress and Amazon.


----------



## onedvt

Sam L said:


> Try the instructions I just posted. Unfortunately, there are differences in how various manufacturers implement the audio pathing in android. UAPP and Hiby work with wavelet for me on a LG v60. I haven't switch back to my pixel 4xl or note 10 yet to test out on those devices, as I mainly use Spotify on those two phones.


Finally managed to get it to work on both Hiby and UAPP. Turns out exclusive access to the DAC must be disabled (I'm using a OnePlus 8 + NextDrive Spectra X) or the audio will bypass Wavelet and route directly to the DAC. Thanks for this @Sam L, it now sounds much better to my ears – soundstage is more expansive with markedly increased clarity in the highs and mids. Don't think I can go back to default presets


----------



## Miyanovic

Hi. I have seen that some here are using the oratory1990 target curve as a preference for their own earbuds. But I think the same graph will sound very different on an IEM and on an earbuds (in terms of timbre). I have also not seen target curves specifically for earbuds (like Harman, DF, an so on). Out of curiosity, I ask you, do you have a specific target curve to evaluate your earbuds? How do you think the ideal sound of an earbuds would be graphically represented?


----------



## onedvt

Sam L said:


> I forgot about Samsung's sound adapt. I think it's really under-rated. At one point, I used to make Samsung custom profiles for each iem.
> 
> I think ve monk fans might find the dramatic difference too much. But I think it sounds significantly better.
> 
> Any other monk lite 120 ohm owners with android devices willing to give a shot? @onedvt ?


I couldn't find the app in the Play Store so sideloaded it to my OnePlus 8 – but I can't find/open the app after installing. Perhaps it only works with Samsung devices?


----------



## Sam L (Oct 3, 2020)

onedvt said:


> Finally managed to get it to work on both Hiby and UAPP. Turns out exclusive access to the DAC must be disabled (I'm using a OnePlus 8 + NextDrive Spectra X) or the audio will bypass Wavelet and route directly to the DAC. Thanks for this @Sam L, it now sounds much better to my ears – soundstage is more expansive with markedly increased clarity in the highs and mids. Don't think I can go back to default presets


Thanks for trying it out and good info regarding the dac wavelet bypass. I'll keep that in mind for when I use my Oppo ha-2.

Yes, I noticed that too, the sound stage is very different, larger but it almost sounds deeper in particular. I'm usually not one to describe sound stage as wider, taller, etc. But with the monk 120 ohm through wavelet sounds much improved.


----------



## Sam L

onedvt said:


> I couldn't find the app in the Play Store so sideloaded it to my OnePlus 8 – but I can't find/open the app after installing. Perhaps it only works with Samsung devices?


Yes the Samsung adapt sound is only on Samsung phones. Neutralizer on the app store is similar in concept but Samsung's is better.


----------



## Sam L (Oct 3, 2020)

Miyanovic said:


> Hi. I have seen that some here are using the oratory1990 target curve as a preference for their own earbuds. But I think the same graph will sound very different on an IEM and on an earbuds (in terms of timbre). I have also not seen target curves specifically for earbuds (like Harman, DF, an so on). Out of curiosity, I ask you, do you have a specific target curve to evaluate your earbuds? How do you think the ideal sound of an earbuds would be graphically represented?



This has been the one single thing that has consumed my thinking as I started exploring ear buds. I'm starting to form my opinions on a target curve but for now I target oratory and basically compress the compensation changes 25-30%. The timbre changes to much if I implement these compensation files straight up, not to mention wavelet's lack of preamp values means distortion becomes a risk.

I used to target harman but it didn't sound right to my ears.

I'm thinking of assembling a community project with some users here to define a mvp (minimal viable product) earbud target. First it'll require more people using wavelet so I can generate test target curves and get feedback.


----------



## onedvt

Sam L said:


> Thanks for trying it out and good info regarding the dac wavelet bypass. I'll keep that in mind for when I use my Oppo ha-2.
> 
> Yes, I noticed that too, the sound stage is very different, larger but it almost sound deeper in particular. I'm usually not one to describe sound stage as wider, taller, etc. But with the monk 120 ohm through wavelet sounds much improved.


Sitting here marveling at the difference in sound (I'm a noob), it's as if it has opened up across the whole spectrum. No distortion so far even at 100% eq strength.


----------



## Sam L (Oct 3, 2020)

onedvt said:


> Sitting here marveling at the difference in sound (I'm a noob), it's as if it has opened up across the whole spectrum. No distortion so far even at 100% eq strength.


I'm not able to use 100% on the pixel 4 xl or note 10, only on my LG v60. Is that through the oneplus 8?


----------



## onedvt

Sam L said:


> I'm not able to use 100% on the pixel 4 xl or note 10, only on my LG v60. Is that through the oneplus 8?


Yes, paired with the Spectra X. As you've said before it's source and DAC dependent so mileage will vary


----------



## fonkepala

Sam L said:


> I forgot about Samsung's sound adapt. I think it's really under-rated. At one point, I used to make Samsung custom profiles for each iem.
> 
> I think ve monk fans might find the dramatic difference too much. But I think it sounds significantly better.
> 
> Any other monk lite 120 ohm owners with android devices willing to give a shot? @onedvt ?



I'll give Wavelet a go with my Monk Lite 120 soon. Just not right now. Am too busy with other buds


----------



## Sam L

onedvt said:


> Yes, paired with the Spectra X. As you've said before it's source and DAC dependent so mileage will vary


Oh, got it. I thought you went with the oneplus red colored dongle but you're still using the dac, just with exclusive access turned off but still connected to the phone. Yeah, I can definitely see how you can run 100% now. I, too, am amazed at how much better it sounds


----------



## onedvt (Oct 3, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Oh, got it. I thought you went with the oneplus red colored dongle but you're still using the dac, just with exclusive access turned off but still connected to the phone. Yeah, I can definitely see how you can run 100% now. I, too, am amazed at how much better it sounds


I only have two earbuds in rotation at the moment, was mostly using the Earbuds Anonymous until the Monk Lite autoeq preset came along. Will be sticking to these for now. Any chance you own the EAs?


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

thailand earbud diy brand really nice. Noom audio and lamoon audio. Lamoon very nice look as made from unique wood from tree in thailand


----------



## daid1

Green Golden Retriver said:


> thailand earbud diy brand really nice. Noom audio and lamoon audio. Lamoon very nice look as made from unique wood from tree in thailand


Lamoon said to me that they doesen't ship outside Thailand


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

daid1 said:


> Lamoon said to me that they doesen't ship outside Thailand


That’s so unfortunate >< maybe you can get one after Covid if you come vacation in Phuket or pattaya ^^


----------



## superuser1

Green Golden Retriver said:


> That’s so unfortunate >< maybe you can get one after Covid if you come vacation in Phuket or pattaya ^^


Where does one find these earbuds in Bangkok?


----------



## Carrow

So I've been in talks with Cypherus Audio about picking up a balanced Blue Darth set, but EMS shipping to Ireland brings the price to $150/€130 or so, bringing it into competition with the likes of the Shozy BK, some of the Blur buds (I already have the PK32), DQSM Turandot, VE Zen etc. What recommendations around that price might you all have for me, or if you have/have had a Blue Darth pair, is that worth the investment? Thanks


----------



## jogawag (Oct 3, 2020)

I have found that the DIY EMX500 MMCX black earbuds below sound great (silver ones is not so much).  This earbuds has best low end extension by using OFC cable like below.  And the sound stage of this earbuds is much wider than those of the original Smabat ST-10 (which is much more expensive). You can save your money and buy this instead.
Overall, this is specially good MMCX earbuds, and the best value-for-money earbuds I've listened so far.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33015623626.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32974773971.html


By the way, if you feel difficult to remove MMCX connector, I recommend you this FINAL MMCX ASSIST tool.

https://final-audio-design-directshop.com/fs/final/FI-MAY


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

jogawag said:


> I have found that the DIY EMX500 MMCX black earbuds below sound great (silver ones is not so much).  This earbuds has best low end extension by using OFC cable like below.  And the sound stage of this earbuds is much wider than those of the original Smabat ST-10 (which is much more expensive). You can save your money and buy this instead.
> Overall, this is specially good MMCX earbuds, and the best value-for-money earbuds I've listened so far.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33015623626.html
> ...


Nice tool thanks . Se535 mmcx always so difficult to remove unlike the Sony


----------



## axhng (Oct 3, 2020)

jogawag said:


> I have found that the DIY EMX500 MMCX black earbuds below sound great (silver ones is not so much).  This earbuds has best low end extension by using OFC cable like below.  And the sound stage of this earbuds is much wider than those of the original Smabat ST-10 (which is much more expensive). You can save your money and buy this instead.
> Overall, this is specially good MMCX earbuds, and the best value-for-money earbuds I've listened so far.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33015623626.html
> ...



I got these as well, the JieTu EMX500 MMCX in black, and they do sound pretty great for the price. I paid 6.20 SGD (around 4.50 USD) for them since things are normally cheaper on Shopee.sg compared to AE. With full foams, it has a spacious sound with good low end that doesn't muddy up the mids or high. Even if I add in a cheap cable, it would still be good value for money. Out of the handful of budget buds that I've tried, I think this probably comes the closest to the nicehck ME80, though I still think the ME80 sounds noticeably better with fuller sound overall and better treble extension. I think slightly better detail retrieval too. But it is more expensive though, and has non-removable cable.

That said, QC might be a bit of a concern because the pair that I received has channel imbalance with the left side being around 5% softer. A bit of EQ in powerampmusic player fixes that, but it's a bit of a hassle if you switch between different audio gear frequently. But then again, that's a concern with with most cheap buds anyway.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 4, 2020)

axhng said:


> I got these as well, the JieTu EMX500 MMCX in black, and they do sound pretty great for the price. I paid 6.20 SGD (around 4.50 USD) for them since things are normally cheaper on Shopee.sg compared to AE. With full foams, it has a spacious sound with good low end that doesn't muddy up the mids or high. Even if I add in a cheap cable, it would still be good value for money. Out of the handful of budget buds that I've tried, I think this probably comes the closest to the nicehck ME80, though I still think the ME80 sounds noticeably better with fuller sound overall and better treble extension. I think slightly better detail retrieval too. But it is more expensive though, and has non-removable cable.
> 
> That said, QC might be a bit of a concern because the pair that I received has channel imbalance with the left side being around 5% softer. A bit of EQ in powerampmusic player fixes that, but it's a bit of a hassle if you switch between different audio gear frequently. But then again, that's a concern with with most cheap buds anyway.



I agree, the MMCX cables should be better to be replaced not too often.
EDIT:
And the MMCX socket is this product's weakpoint.

And I'm using thin foams now for clear sound.
I feel that the driver of this earbuds is the Fengru EMX500 driver according to the specification.


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

axhng said:


> I got these as well, the JieTu EMX500 MMCX in black, and they do sound pretty great for the price. I paid 6.20 SGD (around 4.50 USD) for them since things are normally cheaper on Shopee.sg compared to AE. With full foams, it has a spacious sound with good low end that doesn't muddy up the mids or high. Even if I add in a cheap cable, it would still be good value for money. Out of the handful of budget buds that I've tried, I think this probably comes the closest to the nicehck ME80, though I still think the ME80 sounds noticeably better with fuller sound overall and better treble extension. I think slightly better detail retrieval too. But it is more expensive though, and has non-removable cable.
> 
> That said, QC might be a bit of a concern because the pair that I received has channel imbalance with the left side being around 5% softer. A bit of EQ in powerampmusic player fixes that, but it's a bit of a hassle if you switch between different audio gear frequently. But then again, that's a concern with with most cheap buds anyway.


Nice thailand shopee got jietu too but it takes sometime 2 weeks to ship from China.
It’s very cheap I might try a pair to compare with the 17 usd Noom audio which looks so similiar but is a fixed cable


----------



## assassin10000 (Oct 4, 2020)

Been listening to these this week, another DIY 14.8mm driver (64Ω N55):



Work well with my BT20S.

_____________________

Also found these browsing taobao:
https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=622698219826&item_id=622698219826


They look like they're better than the rings provided in the VE pack for increasing the diameter of earbuds for those that have larger concha.

I couldn't find them on AliExpress though.


----------



## axhng (Oct 4, 2020)

jogawag said:


> I agree, the MMCX cables should be better to be replaced not too often.
> EDIT:
> And the MMCX socket is this product's weakpoint.
> 
> ...



Yeah. I actually ordered these EMX500 mmcx to try to see if they will work with the BT20S Pro. They work, but the fit was a little weird, and I think because I had to angle them a little too much while experimenting, the mmcx connector for the BT20S Pro started having connection issue after a week or so. So for me it's not really a deal breaker not to have a removable cable for cheaper earbuds. I ordered the Yincrow x6 a day or 2 ago, and the price is pretty close to this EMX500 MMCX + cheap MMCX cable, so fingers crossed for no channel imbalance or QC issues. My luck has been a bit hit or miss so far. :/






these came is a while back too. Was thinking i could use them for some earbuds that I find a bit too warm with full foams, but in the end I still prefer the way foam feels. So will probably just stick with donuts. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯






also... creative SG is selling the aurvana air for 99 SGD (~73USD) with free "Premium MMCX Cable". the design still looks so good after all these years, but wonder how it would stack up against the newer options.

https://sg.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/aurvana-air


----------



## jogawag (Oct 4, 2020)

axhng said:


> Yeah. I actually ordered these EMX500 mmcx to try to see if they will work with the BT20S Pro. They work, but the fit was a little weird, and I think because I had to angle them a little too much while experimenting, the mmcx connector for the BT20S Pro started having connection issue after a week or so. So for me it's not really a deal breaker not to have a removable cable for cheaper earbuds. I ordered the Yincrow x6 a day or 2 ago, and the price is pretty close to this EMX500 MMCX + cheap MMCX cable, so fingers crossed for no channel imbalance or QC issues. My luck has been a bit hit or miss so far. :/
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I used to have Vido, Yincrow X6, Yincrow RW9 and DIY EMX500S etc. but they were washed away in a disaster a year ago along with most of my other earbuds and IEMs.
I was waiting for the MMCX version of Vido to replace them, but now I've purchased the NiceHCK Traceless (red/blue).  I find the Fengru EMX500 to be superior in terms of soundstage size and sub-bass in comparison IMO.

I was also waiting for the MMCX version of the Moondrop Chaconne, as I have experience of breaking the Moondrop Liebesleid cable. But now I've finally bought the regular version of Chaconne this morning. If this MMCX version is announced in this year, I might be shocked and sleep for 8 hours all night (maybe normal...) .
If the Chaconne arrives tomorrow and sounds better than I thought it would, let me report here.


----------



## axhng

jogawag said:


> I used to have Vido, Yincrow X6, Yincrow RW9 and DIY EMX500S etc. but they were washed away in a disaster a year ago along with most of my other earbuds and IEMs.
> I was waiting for the MMCX version of Vido to replace them, but now I've purchased the NiceHCK Traceless (red/blue).  I find the Fengru EMX500 to be superior in terms of soundstage size and sub-bass in comparison IMO.
> 
> I was also waiting for the MMCX version of the Moondrop Chaconne, as I have experience of breaking the Moondrop Liebesleid cable. But now I've finally bought the regular version of Chaconne this morning. If this MMCX version is announced in this year, I might be shocked and sleep for 8 hours all night (maybe normal...) .
> If the Chaconne arrives tomorrow and sounds better than I thought it would, let me report here.



Sorry to hear that man. If the jietu EMX500 mmcx is using the same driver and tuning as the fengru EMX500, then yeah, I think it's a solid step up from the Nicehck Traceless for sure. Just a pity that the ones I have has such a noticeable channel imbalance. I mostly use earbuds at home and I can't EQ the earbuds as easily on my desktop, nor am I willing to change the way I consume music just for these earbuds, so they are probably just going into storage or be used for driver swaps or something like that. Don't really want to spend the money for another pair too since I can just use that money to try something else instead.

I'm still extremely hesitant to jump into TOTL earbuds territory since I'm already plenty happy with the ME80. So shall live vicariously through fellow head-fiers here and look forward to the reviews here.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 4, 2020)

axhng said:


> Sorry to hear that man. If the jietu EMX500 mmcx is using the same driver and tuning as the fengru EMX500, then yeah, I think it's a solid step up from the Nicehck Traceless for sure. Just a pity that the ones I have has such a noticeable channel imbalance. I mostly use earbuds at home and I can't EQ the earbuds as easily on my desktop, nor am I willing to change the way I consume music just for these earbuds, so they are probably just going into storage or be used for driver swaps or something like that. Don't really want to spend the money for another pair too since I can just use that money to try something else instead.
> 
> I'm still extremely hesitant to jump into TOTL earbuds territory since I'm already plenty happy with the ME80. So shall live vicariously through fellow head-fiers here and look forward to the reviews here.



If your EMX500 MMCX has such a noticeable channel imbalance, if you take a video of it and send it to JieTu as an e-mail attachment, then I think he should send you a new one.

I actually bought black and silver EMX500 MMCXs satisfiedly but next day I found the silver left bud became to have no sound. I contacted JieTu for getting the silver left bud and he told me to take a video of it and attach it to an e-mail and send it to him. I did that and he sent me the silver left bud. 
(But JieTu made me buy a foam earpad for $1.2 instead of shipping. He may be a merchant as Shylock...)


----------



## axhng

jogawag said:


> If your EMX500 MMCX has such a noticeable channel imbalance, if you take a video of it and send it to JieTu as an e-mail attachment, then I think he should send you a new one.
> 
> I actually bought black and silver EMX500 MMCXs satisfiedly but next day I found the silver left bud became to have no sound. I contacted JieTu for getting the silver left bud and he told me to take a video of it and attach it to an e-mail and send it to him. I did that and he sent me the silver left bud.
> (But JieTu made me buy a foam earpad for $1.2 instead of shipping. He may be a merchant as Shylock...)



Well, normally shopee doesn't really offer much in terms of buyer protection and often times things are just sold as is. but i guess there is no harm trying, thanks for the suggestion. I've recorded a video already and initiated a chat with them. HTC's voice recorder app with a visualiser coming in handy (using pink noise). so let's see what they can do about it. I initially thought it was more like 5% difference, but that's at lower volume. but if i crank it up a bit, it's more like 10%. lol.


----------



## knightaz

Sam L said:


> @knightaz
> 
> A couple things:
> 
> ...



Thanks, I've tried the eq but nothing is saving these. I've packed them up and will not be using them ever again. Pretty confused about how different our experiences are.


----------



## rprodrigues (Oct 4, 2020)

knightaz said:


> Thanks, I've tried the eq but nothing is saving these. I've packed them up and will not be using them ever again. Pretty confused about how different our experiences are.



You might have received a deffective set.
As I had already pointed out before, in terms of sound quality, my experience with my set is different from the reviews too. That is why I believed my set may be deffective.
In one review, Rambo II is marked as ' Enormous clarity and definition; Soft and delicate trebles, but very detailed and harmonious. '. It is far away from what I get in terms of clarity and details  retrieval. I've ordered both Fiio FH7 and BGVP dh3 after reading reviews on them from the same reviewer, so I trust him.

Since I'm coming from iems, I'm not used to what I can get from earbuds. However, when I hear my TC200, I'm almost sure my Rambo II is deffective, otherwise it is a very bad set for my taste.



@Sam L 

Thank you for all assistance regarding Rambo II.


----------



## rprodrigues

Hi there.

Another advice needed...
Where to go once I got TC200, Tomahawk, Rambo II, and M2 Pro?
Kbear Stellar is coming.


I prefer more neutral signatures although  I like TC200 a lot. I use my buds in stock config and I would not like to step up regarding price (Rambo II were bought at $59).

Are Monk lite 120 ohm a good choice? I've read mixed reviews on them.

It seems ME80 have been praised for some time. Are they really good?


----------



## Sam L

rprodrigues said:


> Hi there.
> 
> Another advice needed...
> Where to go once I got TC200, Tomahawk, Rambo II, and M2 Pro?
> ...


no, don't go for the monk lite 120 if you are not eq'ing. They are similar to the rambo 2 with the lower mid bloat. Haven't listened to the TC200 yet, but in general, none of the buds I've heard have a neutral sound profile. The BK2 comes close, since the bass is not bumped too much and there's the sub-bass rolloff. I think you'll like the me80. It has much cleaner mids, with good treble extension and good bass (without being overwhelming). By the way, I consider the hifiman re400 to be neutral sounding, as well as DF tuned iems with a -3db drop in the pinna gain.


----------



## rprodrigues

@Sam L
I'm not sure I should look for earbuds the same way I get (preferred neutral) iems.

Regarding TC200, I've read elsewhere that TP16 may be an upgrade regarding sound signature.

ME80 are currently out of stock on Ali. I will try to order them on 11.11.


----------



## Nool

The Rambo2 definitely needs EQ to clean up the resolution, but after that I still think it's pretty decent, compared to the other stuff in my signature. Definitely the best bud I own after EQ. The fit does suck though, coating the outside with silicone to hold the earbud foam in place helps.

I'd like to hear the tonality and resolution of the x6 and me80 to get a better idea where the Rambo2 stands, and possibly the 150ohm ST10s, but honestly after reading enough reviews and comparisons, including on stuff I own, the bar for fidelity in earbuds overall seems pretty low. Which is kind of a shame.


----------



## Sam L (Oct 4, 2020)

*On equalizing the Yuin PK2*

When using my wavelet file, I'm noticing that I have to use a lower eq strength to not affect tonality adversely. The drivers in the PK2 can handle very high eq strength in the wavelet app without distortion (100% on my lg v60. didn't test on pixel 4 or note 10 yet, but I suspect it won't go higher than 75%).

I'm still evaluating where I'll land, probably around 40% eq strength.

The most glaring weakness with the pk2 is the upper bass / lower mid bloat. Here's what autoeq generated after compiling my wavelet file.
- black = my raw, measured results of the pk2 through an iec711 coupler.
- light blue = oratory1990 iem target
- blue - equalized result

**edit**
While the resultant sound is significantly better than stock, that -7.5db notch in the 2.5khz region is problematic. Most iems I correct get very close to target, whereas most buds do not correct as accurately (to be expected). The Fiio EM5 is the exception, it corrects with IEM accuracy. I'm on the hunt to see what other buds can do this, not so much from a sound perspective but just technically -- which is to say, it probably won't matter much from a sound perspective. lol


----------



## Sam L (Oct 4, 2020)

Nool said:


> ... the bar for fidelity in earbuds overall seems pretty low. Which is kind of a shame.


agreed. The appeal of buds is clearly very niche and in my mind, falls under two categories:

*1. Soundstage.* Genres that incorporate soundstage as a key component of the recording, such as live orchestral recordings (from a fidelity standpoint.) Other genres of music might not have soundstage as an element of faithful reproduction of the originally recorded musical event but audiophiles might still prefer soundstage as an extra-topical listening element.

*2. Non-musical reasons.* Things like the need to hear surrounding noise, comfort (ie. some people cannot tolerate anything inside their ears, buds as a solution for persistent ear ailments/infections, etc.)

Maybe I'm missing something else, but from my perspective this is it. IEMs excel in everything else.

I'm still learning about the buds world, but I can't help but think there is still a ton of improvement that can be explored, something like the period of innovation that chifi brought in recent years.


----------



## Sam L (Oct 4, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> @Sam L
> I'm not sure I should look for earbuds the same way I get (preferred neutral) iems.
> 
> Regarding TC200, I've read elsewhere that TP16 may be an upgrade regarding sound signature.
> ...


The ME80 is easily one of the best buys in its price range, a clear standout.



**edit**
someone asked about earbud target curves. I will likely plot this curve as a starting point but remove the sub-bass roll-off.


----------



## rprodrigues

Sam L said:


> agreed. The appeal of buds is clearly very niche and in my mind, falls under two categories:
> 
> *1. Soundstage.* Genres that incorporate soundstage as a key component of the recording, such as live orchestral recordings (from a fidelity standpoint.) Other genres of music might not have soundstage as an element of faithful reproduction of the originally recorded musical event but audiophiles might still prefer soundstage as an extra-topical listening element.
> 
> ...



Currently, I would add the price.

The soundstage of my buds are outstanding regarding my iems. Only some of them have a nice but not as good soundstage.


----------



## Sam L

rprodrigues said:


> Currently, I would add the price.
> 
> The soundstage of my buds are outstanding regarding my iems. Only some of them have a nice but not as good soundstage.


Oh, yes, silly that I neglected to highlight that. Those that can get the k's nameless locally for $2 get an insane price to value deal.


----------



## cenizas

@Sam L Do you have the raw frequency response of the em5?


----------



## Sam L (Oct 4, 2020)

cenizas said:


> @Sam L Do you have the raw frequency response of the em5?


Yes, let me see if I can pull it from my phone via Google drive

**edit**
Here you go.


----------



## cenizas

Sam L said:


> Yes, let me see if I can pull it from my phone via Google drive
> 
> **edit**
> Here you go.


Thanks fam


----------



## jogawag (Oct 4, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> @Sam L
> I'm not sure I should look for earbuds the same way I get (preferred neutral) iems.
> 
> Regarding TC200, I've read elsewhere that TP16 may be an upgrade regarding sound signature.
> ...



If you can't wait for the NiceHCK ME80 (and it may be discontinued), I can recommend the Yincrow RW-9 more as a neutral earbuds.
It has vivid details, clarity and a great lowend, but I feel its soundstage is mid rather than wide.


----------



## Sam L

jogawag said:


> If you can't wait for the NiceHCK ME80 (and it may be discontinued), I can recommend the Yincrow RW-9 more as a neutral earbuds.
> It has vivid details, clarity and a great lowend, but I feel its soundstage is mid rather than wide.


Yes, second the rw9. Great earbuds at any price.


----------



## Sam L

jogawag said:


> If you can't wait for the NiceHCK ME80 (and it may be discontinued), I can recommend the Yincrow RW-9 more as a neutral earbuds.
> It has vivid details, clarity and a great lowend, but I feel its soundstage is mid rather than wide.


Wait, what? The me80 could be discontinued? Did you see that somewhere?


----------



## theresanarc

Anyone have a link to some good foam covers? I bought these last time and they're pretty bad, they get very stretched out/loose and fall apart/start to disintegrate plus they tear easy:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/329...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


----------



## rprodrigues

jogawag said:


> If you can't wait for the NiceHCK ME80 (and it may be discontinued), I can recommend the Yincrow RW-9 more as a neutral earbuds.
> ...





Sam L said:


> Yes, second the rw9. Great earbuds at any price.



What one would you get, RW9 or ME80, in respect to comfort?
Are they close enough to be considered as side grades?


----------



## Sam L

rprodrigues said:


> What one would you get, RW9 or ME80, in respect to comfort?
> Are they close enough to be considered as side grades?


Yes close enough to be side grades. Though if I had to choose one, it would be the me80. I prefer the rw9 cable though. It's more flexible and does not have any memory.


----------



## Sam L (Oct 4, 2020)

theresanarc said:


> Anyone have a link to some good foam covers? I bought these last time and they're pretty bad, they get very stretched out/loose and fall apart/start to disintegrate plus they tear easy:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/329...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


People here have recommended foams from trigrain. I'd stay away from the bright  reds though, it seems they tear more easily than blues, blacks, or dark reds - at least from the batch that I bought.

It took me awhile to figure out how to salvage the reds (I got a 50 pack, so I was motivated to figure out how to make them work.) I pre-stretch the foams from center to edge by grabbing the center with one hand and the edge with my other hand. You have to do this carefully and slowly, and rotate the foam around little by little. I found that if I grabbed the foam from edge to edge, the center portion would rip too easily.


----------



## wskl

rprodrigues said:


> What one would you get, RW9 or ME80, in respect to comfort?
> Are they close enough to be considered as side grades?



In terms of comfort, I don't have the RW-9 but as I own other earbuds with the MX500 shell, I find it to be more comfortable for my ears.  The ME80 on the other hand are rather large and have a little weight to them, I can only wear them for short listening sessions (~30mins) which is a shame because they do sound good.

YMMW


----------



## jibberish

wskl said:


> In terms of comfort, I don't have the RW-9 but as I own other earbuds with the MX500 shell, I find it to be more comfortable for my ears.  The ME80 on the other hand are rather large and have a little weight to them, I can only wear them for short listening sessions (~30mins) which is a shame because they do sound good.
> 
> YMMW


I have the same experience.  The RW-9 (or any MX500 earbuds) are more comfortable, lighter, and have a more stable fit than the heavier and larger ME80 shells. 

Both are excellent and are incredible bargains though.


----------



## rkw

theresanarc said:


> Anyone have a link to some good foam covers? I bought these last time and they're pretty bad, they get very stretched out/loose and fall apart/start to disintegrate plus they tear easy


For thicker foams, Hiegi: https://penonaudio.com/hiegi-foam-cushions.html (also available on AliExpress)
For thinner foams, Venture Electronics (maker of Monk buds): https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=14


----------



## jogawag (Oct 4, 2020)

theresanarc said:


> Anyone have a link to some good foam covers? I bought these last time and they're pretty bad, they get very stretched out/loose and fall apart/start to disintegrate plus they tear easy:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/329...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_



Please keep in mind that this Trig Rain official store's foams are great quality and are a regular fixture for the residents of this thread.
These foams are middle thick.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32671911259.html


----------



## rprodrigues

wskl said:


> In terms of comfort, I don't have the RW-9 but as I own other earbuds with the MX500 shell, I find it to be more comfortable for my ears.  The ME80 on the other hand are rather large and have a little weight to them, I can only wear them for short listening sessions (~30mins) which is a shame because they do sound good.
> 
> YMMW





jibberish said:


> I have the same experience.  The RW-9 (or any MX500 earbuds) are more comfortable, lighter, and have a more stable fit than the heavier and larger ME80 shells.
> 
> Both are excellent and are incredible bargains though.



I have fit issues even with MX500 shells, so ME80 might be a problem. 
I need something with a 16mm shell, as the old pk1 shells.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 4, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Wait, what? The me80 could be discontinued? Did you see that somewhere?



Sorry, I just thought it might be discontinued because NiceHCK is leaving it sold out despite its good reputation in this way.
Even though NiceHCK B40 is available in stores that don't seem to have much to do with it.




rprodrigues said:


> I have fit issues even with MX500 shells, so ME80 might be a problem.
> I need something with a 16mm shell, as the old pk1 shells.



Then I recommend you NiceHCK B40 as the pk1 shells’ famous newtral one.


----------



## Sam L

rprodrigues said:


> I have fit issues even with MX500 shells, so ME80 might be a problem.
> I need something with a 16mm shell, as the old pk1 shells.


Ah, bummer... I would be interested in hearing other's suggestions re: their favorite pk shell iems. I have the Pk2 and find them to be extremely comfortable, though I wouldn't recommend them.


----------



## rprodrigues

Sam L said:


> Ah, bummer... I would be interested in hearing other's suggestions re: their favorite pk shell iems. I have the Pk2 and find them to be extremely comfortable, though I wouldn't recommend them.



Why not? Aren't they good?


----------



## Sam L

rprodrigues said:


> Why not? Aren't they good?


More of the same lower mid bloat.


----------



## alvinlim2010

Sam L said:


> People here have recommended foams from trigrain. I'd stay away from the bright  reds though, it seems they tear more easily than blues, blacks, or dark reds - at least from the batch that I bought.
> 
> It took me awhile to figure out how to salvage the reds (I got a 50 pack, so I was motivated to figure out how to make them work.) I pre-stretch the foams from center to edge by grabbing the center with one hand and the edge with my other hand. You have to do this carefully and slowly, and rotate the foam around little by little. I found that if I grabbed the foam from edge to edge, the center portion would rip too easily.


And the red ones do stain if you mix them with white foam


----------



## Sam L

rprodrigues said:


> Why not? Aren't they good?


From the buds I have, these do not suffer from lower mid bloat.
X6
Rw9
Bk2
Me80

These are warmer buds with thicker lower mids.
Monk plus
Monk lite
Faeeal snow lotus 1+
Fengru emx500
Rambo 2
K's nameless


jogawag said:


> Sorry, I just thought it might be discontinued because NiceHCK is leaving it sold out despite its good reputation in this way.
> Even though NiceHCK B40 is available in stores that don't seem to have much to do with it.
> 
> 
> ...


Ah that's right, forgot about the b40. @rprodrigues , the b40 does not have lower mid bloat. I've been meaning to get another pair without mic because mine (w/mic) have upper mid channel imbalance.


----------



## rprodrigues

@Sam L 
Do B40 lack treble?


----------



## Sam L

rprodrigues said:


> Why not? Aren't they good?


For me, this is the main reason I can not recommend the yuin Pk2. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3307#post-15900768

In summary, there's a 2.5khz notch that can't be corrected without messing up other parts of the spectrum. There's always a give and take to work through.


----------



## Sam L

rprodrigues said:


> @Sam L
> Do B40 lack treble?


Ummm... Haven't listened to the b40 In a couple months but if I remember correctly they have decent treble extension. I have a graph of the b40 on my computer at home. I'll put together a frequency comparison of the b40, x6, rw9 and me80 on one graph when I get home.


----------



## assassin10000 (Oct 4, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> I have fit issues even with MX500 shells, so ME80 might be a problem.
> I need something with a 16mm shell, as the old pk1 shells.





jogawag said:


> Then I recommend you NiceHCK B40 as the pk1 shells’ famous newtral one.



B40 is 16.7mm, it has a larger modified shell. It is very close to the 16.8mm of mx500 type shells. I found them uncomfortable for long sessions and sold mine.

It is not 16.1mm like most PK shells.




Sam L said:


> For me, this is the main reason I can not recommend the yuin Pk2.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3307#post-15900768
> 
> In summary, there's a 2.5khz notch that can't be corrected without messing up other parts of the spectrum. There's always a give and take to work through.



Yeah, you must have the newer PK2 drivers. My older version didn't have that problem. I already sold them or I'd remeasure them.


----------



## alvinlim2010

Sam L said:


> For me, this is the main reason I can not recommend the yuin Pk2.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3307#post-15900768
> 
> In summary, there's a 2.5khz notch that can't be corrected without messing up other parts of the spectrum. There's always a give and take to work through.


I dont have that issue with my PK2 too, though i owned it for near a decade i think


----------



## Sam L (Oct 4, 2020)

alvinlim2010 said:


> I dont have that issue with my PK2 too, though i owned it for near a decade i think


Ah, i got mine a couple months ago. I have a feeling the newer pk2's sound different from the older ones.

@assassin10000 did your Pk2 sound more similar to the me80 or the monk plus?


----------



## assassin10000

Sam L said:


> Ah, i got mine a couple months ago. I have a feeling the newer pk2's sound different from the older ones.
> 
> @assassin10000 did your Pk2 sound more similar to the me80 or the monk plus?



It was not similar to the me80. Never heard the monk+ so I couldn't say. It wasn't similar to the either RY4S though, which I found a bit harsh/fatiguing.

It was warm, smooth but still had some detail and treble, easy to listen for long sessions. Had the typical rolled off sub-bass of smaller 14.8mm drivers but bass was in good quantity.


----------



## inbusiness

I just got this buds from Indy company in Thailand.

Neo soul sacrifice from Neosound

Sound brilliant to me for the price (Around 30$) and with mmcx slot too.

I'm not a audiophile so I cant describe sound quality in precise details but

This for me sound a lot better than my Monk Makka,emx500,Pk2

Sweet full mid / Smooth bass / kinda warm


----------



## fokta

Cable do make difference in this MMCX Earbud...
But there some dispute of bottleneck if using MMCX here locally... 

for all Demo, my ear was impress by this local mod, Suwung, using Wood case... the sound was actually Bright, very extend Airy, impressive Soundstage, yet the Vocal felt warm... 
must used without Any Foam... 

in frame : Suwung MMCX wood case, cable 173 CEMA, and DX228EX...


----------



## Alicgmood12 (Oct 5, 2020)

Maybe i choosed wrong thread, but i need some advice in earbuds choosing. I had Sennheiser cx 100 before and it was fantastic! It's broken now (i used warranty and changet it once. After that i fixed it a couple of times, but we have a cat, so... R.I.P.).

I was thinking to get another Sennheiser, but after that i thought that maybe exist other good earbuds producers. So i went to the Google and started to search. And i was confused about how many earbuds on the markets. I found a couple of articles about it 
https://www.techradar.com/news/audio/best-in-ear-headphones-1276925
https://www.bestadvisor.com/earbuds
BUT i still don't know which one to choose. 
ALice


----------



## baskingshark

Alicgmood12 said:


> Maybe i choosed wrong thread, but i need some advice in earbuds choosing. I had Sennheiser cx 100 before and it was fantastic! It's broken now (i used warranty and changet it once. After that i fixed it a couple of times, but we have a cat, so... R.I.P.).
> 
> I was thinking to get another Sennheiser, but after that i thought that maybe exist other good earbuds producers. So i went to the Google and started to search. And i was confused about how many earbuds on the markets. I found a couple of articles about it
> https://www.techradar.com/news/audio/best-in-ear-headphones-1276925
> ...



Perhaps u can answer the following queries so the community can advise better:
1) What are your preferred music genres?
2) What is your preferred sound signature? V shaped, midcentric, neutralish, treblehead/treble sensitive, basshead/bass averse?
3) What's your budget?
4) Do u know what source are u using to drive the earbuds? Ie low powered smartphone, or u have an amp?


----------



## fonkepala

theresanarc said:


> Anyone have a link to some good foam covers? I bought these last time and they're pretty bad, they get very stretched out/loose and fall apart/start to disintegrate plus they tear easy:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/329...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_



Get this.


----------



## Strifeff7

hello,
I really don't anything about earbud,
is there a Blon BL03 equivalent in earbud world?


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

What are the main benefits of using earbud over iem?


----------



## baskingshark (Oct 5, 2020)

Strifeff7 said:


> hello,
> I really don't anything about earbud,
> is there a Blon BL03 equivalent in earbud world?



The BLON BL-03 can be worn like a earbud actually. Just cut the stock cable's plastic cable guides or use a cable without earhooks, swap the left and right earpieces and wear it cable down. That's how I use the BLON BL-03 actually, better fit for me than overears.

As for an "equivalent BLON BL-03", are u asking about a similar sound profile (Harmanish with midbass bump)? Or something that has good price to performance ratio that has good timbre/tonality?



Green Golden Retriver said:


> What are the main benefits of using earbud over iem?




*Pros of earbuds:*
- Earbuds bring better soundstage to the table compared to IEMs.
- They are sort of a compromise from headphones, without the clamp or heat in summer.
- I also prefer earbuds sometimes when having ear infections or abrasions in the ear canal from too long IEM usage.
- Generally good timbre.
- Relatively cheaper than IEMs: $10 - 20ish can get u some pretty good sound for earbuds nowadays. Maybe $50 - 100 can get u a midfi earbud, and TOTL earbuds probably can be obtained at the $200 - 300 mark.

*Cons of earbuds:*
- Generally have poorer subbass extension/quantity compared to IEMs due to lack of seal. So bassheads have to look elsewhere. There are some earbuds like SMABAT ST10S Black Gold and SMABAT ST10 that have good subbass extension, but those are rare.
- No isolation -> so not the best option to be used outside as one might jack up the volume to compensate for poor isolation, which is not safe for hearing health. People may be able to hear what you are playing too as such. Isolation may not be wanted in some cases though, I know friends who purposely want to use earbuds outside for safety reasons.
- Some also have quite high impedance and do need amping to shine.
- Fit of earbuds may be an issue for some. Thankfully, they come in various shapes and sizes, so see what fits you: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3207#post-15645387


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

baskingshark said:


> The BLON BL-03 can be worn like a earbud actually. Just cut the stock cable's plastic cable guides or use a cable without earhooks, swap the left and right earpieces and wear it cable down. That's how I use the BLON BL-03 actually, better fit for me than overears.
> 
> As for an "equivalent BLON BL-03", are u asking about a similar sound profile (Harmanish with midbass bump)? Or something that has good price to performance ratio that has good timbre/tonality?
> 
> ...


Thank you very great pros and cons ^^

btw totl earbud 200 usd to 300 usd will be generally better or worse sounding than iem?

I’m thinking in this price range maybe blessing 2 if iem?


----------



## baskingshark

Green Golden Retriver said:


> Thank you very great pros and cons ^^
> 
> btw totl earbud 200 usd to 300 usd will be generally better or worse sounding than iem?
> 
> I’m thinking in this price range maybe blessing 2 if iem?



Personally I think earbuds and IEMs are very different beasts, they bring different benefits to the table. Earbuds are actually closer to open back headphones than IEMs. So kinda apples to oranges comparison to compare IEMs against earbuds.

FWIW, the most expensive earbud that I bought is the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold (slightly more than $100 USD), even with amping (it is quite power hungry), I don't think it can compete with some midfi CHIFI IEMs in terms of details (it isn't surprising since the IEM goes nearer the ear than earbuds). But the earbuds beat most of these IEMs in soundstage.

I haven't tried Blessing 2 so can't advise. Maybe we can get the advise of @RikudouGoku , he has Blessing 2 IEM and some TOTL earbuds.


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

baskingshark said:


> Personally I think earbuds and IEMs are very different beasts, they bring different benefits to the table. Earbuds are actually closer to open back headphones than IEMs. So kinda apples to oranges comparison to compare IEMs against earbuds.
> 
> FWIW, the most expensive earbud that I bought is the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold (slightly more than $100 USD), even with amping (it is quite power hungry), I don't think it can compete with some midfi CHIFI IEMs in terms of details (it isn't surprising since the IEM goes nearer the ear than earbuds). But the earbuds beat most of these IEMs in soundstage.
> 
> I haven't tried Blessing 2 so can't advise. Maybe we can get the advise of @RikudouGoku , he has Blessing 2 IEM and some TOTL earbuds.


Thanks

I have been researching a lot about iem vs full size open back sound quality.
Do you think the for the ultimate sound quality does totl iem win or full size open back win? Full size definitely sound stage but for overall best sound quality what would you choose 

thanks


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> Personally I think earbuds and IEMs are very different beasts, they bring different benefits to the table. Earbuds are actually closer to open back headphones than IEMs. So kinda apples to oranges comparison to compare IEMs against earbuds.
> 
> FWIW, the most expensive earbud that I bought is the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold (slightly more than $100 USD), even with amping (it is quite power hungry), I don't think it can compete with some midfi CHIFI IEMs in terms of details (it isn't surprising since the IEM goes nearer the ear than earbuds). But the earbuds beat most of these IEMs in soundstage.
> 
> I haven't tried Blessing 2 so can't advise. Maybe we can get the advise of @RikudouGoku , he has Blessing 2 IEM and some TOTL earbuds.





Green Golden Retriver said:


> Thank you very great pros and cons ^^
> 
> btw totl earbud 200 usd to 300 usd will be generally better or worse sounding than iem?
> 
> I’m thinking in this price range maybe blessing 2 if iem?


I dont think the Blessing 2 is that good for an iem that is 300 usd, in that price range you got stuff like the Tanchjim Oxygen, LZ A7/A6 and even the Fiio FH3 that is extremely good.

I only have experience with the DQSM Turandot and that is a dissapointment and I really hope the other buds at that price range is better.

Generally speaking I would say that buds are better than iems in these factors:
Soundstage
Timbre
Tonality
Vocals
Airy but non-fatiguing treble
Value

While iems have these pros over buds:
Detail
Instrument separation
Imaging
Bass quantity/quality
Isolation


So "better" or "worse" is up to you in what you value the most.


----------



## jogawag

Green Golden Retriver said:


> What are the main benefits of using earbud over iem?



The main benefit of earbuds for me is a wide soundstage with ambient sound.


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

jogawag said:


> The main benefit of earbuds for me is a wide soundstage with ambient sound.


I completely agree with you. Ear bud feels very airy


----------



## Sam L

Green Golden Retriver said:


> Thank you very great pros and cons ^^
> 
> btw totl earbud 200 usd to 300 usd will be generally better or worse sounding than iem?
> 
> I’m thinking in this price range maybe blessing 2 if iem?


Different sounding, with worse technicalities.


----------



## Sam L

Sam L said:


> Ummm... Haven't listened to the b40 In a couple months but if I remember correctly they have decent treble extension. I have a graph of the b40 on my computer at home. I'll put together a frequency comparison of the b40, x6, rw9 and me80 on one graph when I get home.


@rprodrigues here you go:


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> @rprodrigues here you go:


oh nice, could you upload a pic of only the RW9 and the X6?


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> oh nice, could you upload a pic of only the RW9 and the X6?


Yep, when I get home. Lol just stepped out.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> Yep, when I get home. Lol just stepped out.


np


----------



## rprodrigues

Sam L said:


> @rprodrigues here you go:



Thank you very much!


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> np


@RikudouGoku , here you go:


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> @RikudouGoku , here you go:


Wow more sub-bass on the RW-9? Kinda looks like the RW-9 is more v-shaped than the X6 lol.


----------



## Sam L

rprodrigues said:


> Thank you very much!


by the way, regarding the b40's, the upper mids don't sound as recessed as the graph shows (at least to my ears).


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Wow more sub-bass on the RW-9? Kinda looks like the RW-9 is more v-shaped than the X6 lol.


Yeah, actually the rw-9 sounds pretty v-shaped for a bud. The bass on the rw-9 can hit hard. It's a bit much for my tastes.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> Yeah, actually the rw-9 sounds pretty v-shaped for a bud. The bass on the rw-9 can hit hard. It's a bit much for my tastes.


Well, cant wait for 11/11 then hehe.


----------



## rprodrigues (Oct 5, 2020)

@Sam L
From the graphs, ME80 seem to be neutral compared to the others. Does it match what you hear?


----------



## Sam L

rprodrigues said:


> @Sam L
> From the graphs, ME80 seems to be neutral compared to the others. Does it match what you hear?


sort of, compared to the others, yes the me80 is the most neutral of the bunch. But it isn't really neutral sounding. There's good bass and treble extension. 

re: buds graphs, I think I can safely say that the Fletcher munson curve does not affect buds as much as it does iems. There's a different equal-loudness contour interaction going on. With this in mid, the b40's treble doesn't sound as recessed as the graph indicates. And the me80 is not as neutral as the graph shows as well. if the me80 frequency response was of an iem, it would be way more neutral sounding.


----------



## rprodrigues

Sam L said:


> sort of, compared to the others, yes the me80 is the most neutral of the bunch. But it isn't really neutral sounding. There's good bass and treble extension.
> 
> re: buds graphs, I think I can safely say that the Fletcher munson curve does not affect buds as much as it does iems. There's a different equal-loudness contour interaction going on. With this in mid, the b40's treble doesn't sound as recessed as the graph indicates. And the me80 is not as neutral as the graph shows as well. if the me80 frequency response was of an iem, it would be way more neutral sounding.



So, I wasn't that wrong when I thought I couldn't look at buds the same way I do with iems...


----------



## Sam L (Oct 5, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> So, I wasn't that wrong when I thought I couldn't look at buds the same way I do with iems...


yes, if you mean by examining frequency graphs. They are very different.

**edit**
not to mention graphs with buds are not consistent because of measurement challenges that are unique to buds. my setup mimics crinacle's when I measure iems, as I have both my mic and soundcard calibrated. However, I don't think we have a "standard" approach to measuring iems because of the lack of a earbud coupler.

I am satisfied that my readings can give a comparison between different earbuds that I measure but I am not as confident when it comes to having my graphs actually represent the accurate FR for these buds.

I read each side 7 times, remove low and high deviations and average both channels.


----------



## rprodrigues

Sam L said:


> yes, if you mean by examining frequency graphs. They are very different.



Yes. Regarding FR graphs.



RikudouGoku said:


> Well, cant wait for 11/11 then hehe.



Me too. 
I'm going to grab the ME80 despite fit issues. Perhaps the EB2 and the X6 too.


----------



## Sam L

hmmm how is it that the monk plus is rated so highly on the EA Facebook group. The ME80 has like 7 votes compared to 36 (Monk plus). I don't understand. I'm so confused...


----------



## rprodrigues

Sam L said:


> hmmm how is it that the monk plus is rated so highly on the EA Facebook group. The ME80 has like 7 votes compared to 36 (Monk plus). I don't understand. I'm so confused...



Aren't Monk plus sold at about 3 dollars? 
If so, that may explain...


----------



## Strifeff7

Sam L said:


> Please let me know how it turns out. I'm thinking of compiling autoeq and peq files for a bunch of popular buds.


hi,
how to create custom wavelet autoeq?
I've tried to manually edit the eq text file,
but it failed to import to wavelet,
when I restore the original eq file,
it successfully imported.


----------



## assassin10000

@Sam L have you considered changing the vertical scale on your graphs from 70db to 50db? Makes it easier to read imo.


----------



## Sam L

assassin10000 said:


> @Sam L have you considered changing the vertical scale on your graphs from 70db to 50db? Makes it easier to read imo.


K. Will do. I didn't really give it much thought. Just captured graphs as the appeared on my desktop. But I should consider how users here would read them. Thanks for the feedback. Really appreciate it.


----------



## Sam L

Strifeff7 said:


> hi,
> how to create custom wavelet autoeq?
> I've tried to manually edit the eq text file,
> but it failed to import to wavelet,
> ...


After you import it, you have to go back and search for the file you just imported. It will then appear on your pick list to use


----------



## Sam L

assassin10000 said:


> @Sam L have you considered changing the vertical scale on your graphs from 70db to 50db? Makes it easier to read imo.


test...




or


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> test...
> 
> 
> 
> or


The bottom one looks better because it is more clear on what the differences are.


----------



## assassin10000

Sam L said:


> test...
> 
> 
> 
> or



2nd. Looks like you went a little closer to 40db, which looks a little exaggerated. 

There is a limit setting button that opens a settings box you can set the scale at for x & y axis. I also try and put the FR towards the center and don't worry if the upper treble (10k+) drops off the graph.


----------



## Sam L

assassin10000 said:


> 2nd. Looks like you went a little closer to 40db, which looks a little exaggerated.
> 
> There is a limit setting button that opens a settings box you can set the scale at for x & y axis. I also try and put the FR towards the center and don't worry if the upper treble (10k+) drops off the graph.


first one was 25 db/decade. second was 50 db/decade



I'll prob just stay with "as plotted" and manually size it before capture:


----------



## digititus

Sam L said:


> Yeah, actually the rw-9 sounds pretty v-shaped for a bud. The bass on the rw-9 can hit hard. It's a bit much for my tastes.


Can confirm. RW-9 does bass. You can never have too much bass.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

RikudouGoku said:


> I only have experience with the DQSM Turandot and that is a dissapointment and I really hope the other buds at that price range is better.


I didn't really like Turandot either, I sold them. But my friends liked it, but they don't listen to heavy music.


----------



## jogawag

rprodrigues said:


> ...
> I'm going to grab the ME80 despite fit issues. Perhaps the EB2 and the X6 too.



The EB2, this choice is a good choice because it has a good reputation for sound and its size is small enough to fit.

Next is the X6. The sound is the same as the Vido, so you might as well save your money and replace it with the FENGRU DIY EMX500 which has wide sound stage. (But I don't know if the both MX500 shells are suitable for it.)

Finally, the ME80, but you may not be able to buy it, in which case you should go with the FENGRU DIY PK2 which has 16.2mm shell.  Your other candidate, the NICEHCK DIY MX500 PK1, which I used to have and it didn't sound very good.


----------



## Sam L (Oct 5, 2020)

K, guys. I'm going to start generating test targets for wavelet and peace/apo equalizer.

So far, I know of these users who use wavelet and might be interested in trying out some target curves?
- @waynes world (monk lite 120ohm)
- @Nool (rambo 2)
- @sub30 (monk lite 120)

Anyone else interested?


----------



## onedvt

Sam L said:


> K, guys. I'm going to start generating test targets for wavelet and peace/apo equalizer.
> 
> So far, I know of these users who use wavelet and might be interested in trying out some target curves?
> - @waynes world (monk lite 120ohm)
> ...


Count me in (Monk Lite 120ohm)


----------



## Nool

Sam L said:


> K, guys. I'm going to start generating test targets for wavelet and peace/apo equalizer.
> 
> So far, I know of these users who use wavelet and might be interested in trying out some target curves?


Sure I'll try some out, I'd be interested in some for the BK2. I also feel the one you provided earlier for the Rambo2 is a tad too bright, was it based around Harman? I attached it here for sake of ease. Thanks for your work!


----------



## rprodrigues

jogawag said:


> The EB2, this choice is a good choice because it has a good reputation for sound and its size is small enough to fit.
> 
> Next is the X6. The sound is the same as the Vido, so you might as well save your money and replace it with the FENGRU DIY EMX500 which has wide sound stage. (But I don't know if the both MX500 shells are suitable for it.)
> 
> Finally, the ME80, but you may not be able to buy it, in which case you should go with the FENGRU DIY PK2 which has 16.2mm shell.  Your other candidate, the NICEHCK DIY MX500 PK1, which I used to have and it didn't sound very good.



Thank you for the advices.

I've just ordered the EB2. Let's see how they fit (small ears here).

About the ME80 and X6, I will wait until 11.11.

Regarding fit issues, I received the NICEHCK DIY MX500 PK1 some days ago (see pic). They were ordered so I could test the fit for pk1 shells . They fit very well (thanks to @wskl ). Contrariwise, they indeed sound bad but I don't call them my worst set of buds because they cost just a fraction of the price of my Rambo II, my current worst set.


----------



## Sam L

yincrow x6 experimental target curve is up. more info here.


----------



## theresanarc

Guess what I finally got my hands on.....Qian69s!!!!

They're a lot brighter than I was expecting. I also have to turn the volume up a bit compared to some of the other buds I use when using them. They're also a decent size, Qian39s are definetely more comfortable. I think I prefer the sound signature of the 39s tbh but I'll let these burn in or whatever and experiment around with some other foam combinations as well, they come with regular foams and the donut kind.

Also thanks to the people who provided me links to get some replacement foams earlier.


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

What are some good options for really light low budget mmcx cable for earbuds? My lamoon audio ear bud classic lover lm047 did not come with cable and I only had the ISN c16 cable on hand which is way way too higher. My other mmcx cable hooks around the ear and are not suitable for ear buds.

Any recommendations appreciated, thanks.


----------



## waynes world

Sam L said:


> K's Nameless!
> 
> What a great bud for the price. The interesting thing is the driver on this bud can handle eq really, really well -- very little distortion when I use wavelet's autoeq implementation at 100% strength. So far, out of the 7 or 8 buds I've built autoeq files for, only one can handle 100% strength without distortion. That is the Fiio EM5. YMMV depending on source. I'm running a LG V60. rambo fails at 100%, smabat too, monks distort around 55% me80 fails at around 80%.
> 
> ...



I just got the namelessnesses (that was pretty quick Aliexpress!), and I'm pumping a bit of Radiohead through them and your wavelet EQ (via S8 and Fiio BTR3K):



Yup, they're good (and so is your EQ)!


----------



## waynes world

Sam L said:


> K, guys. I'm going to start generating test targets for wavelet and peace/apo equalizer.
> 
> So far, I know of these users who use wavelet and might be interested in trying out some target curves?
> - @waynes world (monk lite 120ohm)
> ...



Yup.


----------



## Sam L

waynes world said:


> I just got the namelessnesses (that was pretty quick Aliexpress!), and I'm pumping a bit of Radiohead through them and your wavelet EQ (via S8 and Fiio BTR3K):
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, they're good (and so is your EQ)!



I still can't believe that's a $2 bud in local markets. Unbelievable.


----------



## rprodrigues

Sam L said:


> I still can't believe that's a $2 bud in local markets. Unbelievable.


Are they really that good? 

What sound sig? V-shaped?


----------



## fokta (Oct 5, 2020)

Found this in a stack of unknowns mods earbud customs... and was impressed that even this is much better then my Zen 2.0 in term mobility, just plug to your smartphone (Samsung Note 8 with UAPP) already enjoyable.
you get the detail vocal, good soundstage, nice separation, decent Mid bass and Rumble...

IMO, only in earbud, cable do make sound changes...

edit : similar Toxic Cable, OCC Hybrid litz... 
I guess i am going out the bar of authenticity...


----------



## mochill




----------



## cenizas

Just got my k's nameless in, surprisingly big sound and sense of scale that you usually only get from higher impedance earbuds, impressive stuff. Downward sloping sound signature and warm overall with a decent amount of treble sparkle. Average macro dynamics, good micro dynamics. Average resolution but good for the price. I think these might be too warm for some but I enjoy the signature so it works for me, I feel it's significantly more refined sounding than the vido and monk. Overall great performance for the price!


----------



## Strifeff7

Hello there,
I don't know anything about earbud,
need some recomendation for a huge soundstage, airy but not fatiguing treble for long listening session,
I need those wow effect from earbud,
I have a few iem but zero earbud,
thank you,

much love from Indonesia, ♥


----------



## jogawag

Strifeff7 said:


> Hello there,
> I don't know anything about earbud,
> need some recomendation for a huge soundstage, airy but not fatiguing treble for long listening session,
> I need those wow effect from earbud,
> ...



As these are your first earbuds under conditions of a wide soundstage, airy but not fatiguing treble for long listening sessions, I would recommend three: a small size, a regular size and a top quality one.

The first is the small size Diy SR2 16ohms. select the fourth white one in the color option on the page below.
It requires 100 hours of burn-in.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32801646835.html 

Next is the normal sized FENGRU DIY EMX500. In my experiance Black is the way to go.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32887565850.html

Finally, the Moondrop CHACONNE as TOTL earbuds for the best sound quality. It's a small size so if you can afford it, try this one too.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038001813.html

I hope you like these.


----------



## cappuchino (Oct 6, 2020)

-


----------



## Sam L (Oct 6, 2020)

sub30 said:


> Just received the K's Nameless and Vido (red). From initial listen, the Nameless has "better" bass than the Vido's. Though the Vido's bass is more present in the mix, the Nameless is more controlled and tight. Vocals are also fuller in the Nameless. It's like what the others have said, an improved Vido. One thing to note is that the foam the Nameless comes with is trash. It feels rough. The Vido's (with the foam it comes with) are more comfortable for me even though they use the same MX500 shell.
> 
> The MX500 shell doesn't fit me perfectly, but it's usable. I've only got one other earphone, the QKZ VK4, and having listened to earbuds, I keep on noticing how recessed the mids (vocals) are in these. But, the VK4 still has that sub-bass, the detailed sound, and are way more comfortable. YMMV. I fortunately have not had any health issues with wearing IEMs.
> 
> ...


Yeah, my compensation file for the Nameless is a bit too hot in the upper mids. I just plotted out a v11 target and will now work on re-compiling wavelet and peq files.

** edit **
I'll start with the Nameless first


----------



## Sam L

Just finished revising another earbuds target.

Sam Target v.11
No files generated yet. I'm working on it now as you're reading this!


----------



## cappuchino

Sam L said:


> Yeah, my compensation file for the Nameless is a bit too hot in the upper mids. I just plotted out a v11 target and will now work on re-compiling wavelet and peq files.
> 
> ** edit **
> I'll start with the Nameless first


Awesome! Can't wait to try your improved target.


----------



## Sam L (Oct 6, 2020)

sub30 said:


> Awesome! Can't wait to try your improved target.


added v11 target curve for Namesless here (peq file and wavelet files)

** edit **
@RikudouGoku timbre is much improved with this version. Just an update. I wouldn't quite recommend it for you, since it's a bit of work to get it in neutron player. I'll keep you posted as things improve. I already have ideas for v12 but will hold off until I get files generated for other buds models.


----------



## Sam L (Oct 6, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> Are they really that good?
> 
> What sound sig? V-shaped?



For you, I'd avoid them. Their stock tuning has some mid bass bloat, which I removed with my v11 target.


----------



## sarkar1990

Sam L said:


> K, guys. I'm going to start generating test targets for wavelet and peace/apo equalizer.
> 
> So far, I know of these users who use wavelet and might be interested in trying out some target curves?
> - @waynes world (monk lite 120ohm)
> ...


I am up for the rambo 2 wavelet file. Would really appreciate it.


----------



## Sam L

sarkar1990 said:


> I am up for the rambo 2 wavelet file. Would really appreciate it.


working on that next, just finished monk plus.


----------



## Sam L

V11 target curve for Monk Plus here

*warning:* basshead's dream come true. I can already tell I need to revise sub-bass and bass regions for v12.


----------



## Sam L

sarkar1990 said:


> I am up for the rambo 2 wavelet file. Would really appreciate it.


putting it up on the other thread now. I'm not going to cross post here to keep me from dominating with all the posts here.


----------



## Sam L (Oct 6, 2020)

Ok, last post. bed time.

v.11 target files for Monk Lite 120 Ohm here

** edit **
I'm hoping to get to the Faael Snow Lotus 1+ commemorative, the RW-9 and X6 in the next day or so.


----------



## fonkepala

waynes world said:


> I just got the namelessnesses (that was pretty quick Aliexpress!), and I'm pumping a bit of Radiohead through them and your wavelet EQ (via S8 and Fiio BTR3K):
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, they're good (and so is your EQ)!




What do you think of the Nameless stock (without EQ), and which of the two do you prefer?



mochill said:


>



Grats on the LBBs! I just finished auditioning mine a few days ago. Still ambivalent about recommending it wholeheartedly as I had tremendous fit issues. Might be good for someone with smaller ear anatomies. All the time it played nice & stayed in my ears, I could tell that it had good SQ. Surprised by the amount & quality of the bass. I'd be interested to know your thoughts as well.



cenizas said:


> Just got my k's nameless in, surprisingly big sound and sense of scale that you usually only get from higher impedance earbuds, impressive stuff. Downward sloping sound signature and warm overall with a decent amount of treble sparkle. Average macro dynamics, good micro dynamics. Average resolution but good for the price. I think these might be too warm for some but I enjoy the signature so it works for me, I feel it's significantly more refined sounding than the vido and monk. Overall great performance for the price!



Interesting. I wouldn't characterize the Nameless as being warm. Sure, they're not as neutral-ish sounding as the BK2 or the ME80 but I wouldn't say they're 'too warm for some'. Just goes to show we all hear differently, I guess.



sub30 said:


> Hoping that those four are enough for me 🤣



Good luck  If you succeed, tell me how!


----------



## Sam L

fonkepala said:


> What do you think of the Nameless stock (without EQ), and which of the two do you prefer?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Re: Nameless they're not a warm bud overall because they carry a good deal of energy in the upper mids. The lower mids are a tad forward so I could see how the mids could be described as warm, particularly if someone were coming from IEMs.


----------



## cappuchino

Does anyone have both the non-J cable Vido and the one with the J-cable? Is there a sound difference?


----------



## jogawag (Oct 7, 2020)

sub30 said:


> Does anyone have both the non-J cable Vido and the one with the J-cable? Is there a sound difference?



Speaking of Vido J-cable...
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-13568474
According to the post above by @slappypete, the driver on the left side of the Vido, when all Vido's were J-cable except for the Vido with mic, was about 5db less in the 7.5kHz to 9kHz area.
But, I think it's wrong to ask for excessive QC on $0.5-2 priced earbuds.


----------



## Sam L

plotting v12 curve, but I really should get some work done.


----------



## Sam L

I guess it is inevitable that I get some Vidos? Blacks?


----------



## fonkepala

Sam L said:


> I guess it is inevitable that I get some Vidos? Blacks?



Each color except the white.


----------



## Sam L

fonkepala said:


> Each color except the white.


uh... how many colors are there? and really, I NEED to get all the colors except white?


----------



## fonkepala

Sam L said:


> uh... how many colors are there? and really, I NEED to get all the colors except white?



Red, blue, white & black. And yup, because they sound different. Just get 'em all, for science! And they're so cheap (equivalent to USD$1 where I am). If you're a completionist, there's the J-cord version as well. Some say the J-corded ones sound better & are the 'OG' Vido sound.

BTW, I'm the one who rec'd you to contact Bisoy Siosan on FB if you're looking for a custom earbud maker in the CONUS.


----------



## Sam L

fonkepala said:


> Red, blue, white & black. And yup, because they sound different. Just get 'em all, for science! And they're so cheap (equivalent to USD$1 where I am). If you're a completionist, there's the J-cord version as well. Some say the J-corded ones sound better & are the 'OG' Vido sound.
> 
> BTW, I'm the one who rec'd you to contact Bisoy Siosan on FB if you're looking for a custom earbud maker in the CONUS.


lol... "for science"... thx for the recommendation.


----------



## Sam L

This one shows real promise, v1.2 target.

But I'm going to hold off posting files until I can streamline participation. Won't do any good if I'm the only one testing these target curves. 

I will likely do some quiet experimentation and stay ahead one or two releases. If any of you find my work of personal interest, drop me a line anytime and I'll be happy to send you files before they're released.


----------



## Sam L

Monk lite 120 ohm


----------



## cappuchino

Just wanna ask if there's a way to make MX500 shells fit more comfortably? They feel a tad bit to large for my ears. Thanks.


----------



## Sam L (Oct 6, 2020)

monk lite 120

v1.1 target vs. 1.2
I really like 1.2 for my ears.



** edit **
Funny thing is, even thought the graph shows sub and mid bass as flat, there's plenty of bass coming through, plenty.


----------



## Sam L

need to maintain my "most posts this week" on the leaderboard... j/k

what the above v1.2 monk lite 120 graph teaches me is that an earbuds frequency response between 20hz to 1.25khz can be pretty ruler flat and still present tons of bass in playback.


----------



## DBaldock9

@Sam L  - When Wavelet is installed on Android, does it have to be displaying AutoEQ, in order to take advantage of your compensation files?


----------



## assassin10000

Sam L said:


> This one shows real promise, v1.2 target.
> 
> But I'm going to hold off posting files until I can streamline participation. Won't do any good if I'm the only one testing these target curves.
> 
> I will likely do some quiet experimentation and stay ahead one or two releases. If any of you find my work of personal interest, drop me a line anytime and I'll be happy to send you files before they're released.





Sam L said:


> monk lite 120
> 
> v1.1 target vs. 1.2
> I really like 1.2 for my ears.
> ...



I personally like the bass rise to start about 125-150hz instead of 200hz. I'll typically drop about 1-2db there with EQ as it really makes the bass sound 'clean' to me. Ymmv.

The 8-10db pinna gain looks good though, within where I like it. Less than that it becomes dull sounding for the upper mids/lower treble and more than that shouty and fatiguing.


----------



## rprodrigues

sub30 said:


> Just wanna ask if there's a way to make MX500 shells fit more comfortably? They feel a tad bit to large for my ears. Thanks.



Small ears here too.
I've already tried a lot of things, but I got no success.


----------



## Sam L

DBaldock9 said:


> @Sam L  - When Wavelet is installed on Android, does it have to be displaying AutoEQ, in order to take advantage of your compensation files?


Yes.


----------



## DBaldock9

Sam L said:


> Yes.



I'm using an LG V30, which is rooted and running Lineage OS.
Wavelet installs, but there's no AutoEQ displayed when I start it, even with Legacy selected.


----------



## Sam L (Oct 6, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> I personally like the bass rise to start about 125-150hz instead of 200hz. I'll typically drop about 1-2db there with EQ as it really makes the bass sound 'clean' to me. Ymmv.
> 
> The 8-10db pinna gain looks good though, within where I like it. Less than that it becomes dull sounding for the upper mids/lower treble and more than that shouty and fatiguing.


For v1.3 I'll start the bass rise at 125hz. Honestly, I don't think it needs to go up more than +1 to +2.5db.


----------



## assassin10000

DBaldock9 said:


> I'm using an LG V30, which is rooted and running Lineage OS.
> Wavelet installs, but there's no AutoEQ displayed when I start it, even with Legacy selected.



What sound app? Have you tried ones that are known to work with it?


----------



## Sam L

DBaldock9 said:


> I'm using an LG V30, which is rooted and running Lineage OS.
> Wavelet installs, but there's no AutoEQ displayed when I start it, even with Legacy selected.


Hmm. I'm pretty sure lineage alters the audio pathway, unfortunately. 

I was a long time lineage / cyanogen user mainly to get viper4android running. 

My work won't improve on that experience. It'll just be more convenient for bringing iems and buds across platforms with consistency. 

Are you running magisk?


----------



## Sam L

Oh my... FIIO EM5 with v1.2 target. Heavenly...


----------



## Nool

DBaldock9 said:


> I'm using an LG V30, which is rooted and running Lineage OS.
> Wavelet installs, but there's no AutoEQ displayed when I start it, even with Legacy selected.


Force close your audio app, open wavelet, then open the audio app. I found that worked on my moto g6 and galaxy s9+, both stock.


----------



## DBaldock9

assassin10000 said:


> What sound app? Have you tried ones that are known to work with it?



I was just doing a quick check, after installing Wavelet, by running Spotify - but since AutoEQ doesn't display, I don't think there's any way to use Sam's compensation files. 



Sam L said:


> Hmm. I'm pretty sure lineage alters the audio pathway, unfortunately.
> 
> I was a long time lineage / cyanogen user mainly to get viper4android running.
> 
> ...



Yes, I am running Magisk - and I've installed Viper4Android, but the interface has changed quite a bit, from when I used to use it on my Nexus 5 - so I haven't really tried to fool with it very much on the V30.


----------



## Sam L

DBaldock9 said:


> I was just doing a quick check, after installing Wavelet, by running Spotify - but since AutoEQ doesn't display, I don't think there's any way to use Sam's compensation files.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I am running Magisk - and I've installed Viper4Android, but the interface has changed quite a bit, from when I used to use it on my Nexus 5 - so I haven't really tried to fool with it very much on the V30.



There are a couple possible options. 
1. there are a couple apps in the Magisk repository that can restore audio compatibility. I forget which ones. I'll try to look it up.

2. If you have a reasonable number of buds you want profiles for, I can generate convolution eq settings that should be able to be imported as a convolver file in viper4android.

I got off rooted phones a couple years back, so I'm a little fuzzy on the details but I've done it before.


----------



## fokta

just want to share...

a kind collector send me 6 units of old Monk earbud.. I blind try this... and find quite interesting finding on my own..



Find this in original form, still 3.5 SE very impressive sounding, in term of resolution, really dense, tends to ZEN 2.0 in drivable manner (must plug to amp).

it was not the most detail one, not the widest Soundstage one... but it gave that depth of resolution like ZEN 2.0... headphone alike signature... and it was just plug via my Smartphone...

curious more to compare, there are other same OLD Monk earbud in same condition, do the comparison, find that it was different sound.

The more better condition (the below one), sound more airy to extend that it was border of my ear to accept... it was more bright signature, with wide soundstage...

seems OLD monk Driver is a bit gatcha. IMO...
again quite a good experience for me...


----------



## Sam L

DBaldock9 said:


> I was just doing a quick check, after installing Wavelet, by running Spotify - but since AutoEQ doesn't display, I don't think there's any way to use Sam's compensation files.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I am running Magisk - and I've installed Viper4Android, but the interface has changed quite a bit, from when I used to use it on my Nexus 5 - so I haven't really tried to fool with it very much on the V30.


Also in rare cases, you actually need some headphones plugged into the phone before the autoeq option shows up.


----------



## assassin10000

DBaldock9 said:


> I was just doing a quick check, after installing Wavelet, by running Spotify - but since AutoEQ doesn't display, I don't think there's any way to use Sam's compensation files.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I am running Magisk - and I've installed Viper4Android, but the interface has changed quite a bit, from when I used to use it on my Nexus 5 - so I haven't really tried to fool with it very much on the V30.



Ah.

If you want the older style 'skin' I have the apk I can email you (3mb). Iirc both use the same 2.5.0.4 driver.


----------



## XP_98

Some pictures and impressions about Venture Electronics Sun Copper here : Sun Copper


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> Hmm. I'm pretty sure lineage alters the audio pathway, unfortunately.
> 
> I was a long time lineage / cyanogen user mainly to get viper4android running.
> 
> ...


oh wow nostalgic. I remember how much I loved using the cyanogen mod OS on my LG G2. (Still have it and still working lol, its my manga reader and wake up alarm phone now.)

Viper4android was also something I loved a lot, loved boosting the bass and treble to the extremes with my Xiaomi piston 2.


----------



## fonkepala

RikudouGoku said:


> Viper4android was also something I loved a lot, loved boosting the bass and treble to the extremes with my Xiaomi piston 2.



Now that Xiaomi Piston 2 brings back memories! I still have it somewhere. Loved the thing.


----------



## RikudouGoku

fonkepala said:


> Now that Xiaomi Piston 2 brings back memories! I still have it somewhere. Loved the thing.


I used it for a year and then the cable died sadly. I upgradde to their hybrid lineup after that, but the cables always died in months so I think I replaced xiaomi iems like 4-5 times lol. Got tired of it and searched for a new brand and came across KZ ZS6 and the addiction started from there.


----------



## cenizas

Fiio EM5 ordered! Managed to get a nice price on them, will compare them to the rest of the flagships in my stable once I get them


----------



## rprodrigues

@Sam L 
Did you burn in your Rambo II? 
If so, did you get any improvements?


----------



## jasswolf

Sam L said:


> lol... going back to find an old post and just saw this. Yes, that diy mx500 is very under-rated. love mine


These are special... been enjoying them for a couple of days now. Appreciate the thorough review, @RikudouGoku, really sold me on these.

Interested on both your thoughts re: the Yincrow X6 vs these, as well as where they fit in with NiceHCK ME80 and the Yincrow RW-9. I feel like the imaging, separation, detail, timbre and soundstage would be very hard to beat, because the NiceHCK DIY MX500 are spectacular.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jasswolf said:


> These are special... been enjoying them for a couple of days now. Appreciate the thorough review, @RikudouGoku, really sold me on these.
> 
> Interested on both your thoughts re: the Yincrow X6 vs these, as well as where they fit in with NiceHCK ME80 and the Yincrow RW-9. I feel like the imaging, separation, detail, timbre and soundstage would be very hard to beat, because the NiceHCK DIY MX500 are spectacular.


The technicalities definitely are hard to beat on the MX500, thats where they beat the X6 no contest. But I love the X6 due to how "complete" it sounds with the bass. When I use the MX500 I am constantly wondering where the bass is, no such thoughts with the X6. 

Will most likely get the RW-9 on 11/11 but cant comment on it right now.


----------



## Sam L (Oct 7, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> @Sam L
> Did you burn in your Rambo II?
> If so, did you get any improvements?


I did, but at the time I didn't really believe in burn in. I did 40 hours. My opinion changed with the Fiio em5, which I burned in for 200 hours. That made a huge difference.

The rambo 2 not so much, but it did help some with overall clarity. The difference was subtle and I leave room for the possibility that it was "brain burn-in."


----------



## mochill

cenizas said:


> Fiio EM5 ordered! Managed to get a nice price on them, will compare them to the rest of the flagships in my stable once I get them


Where and how much 😃


----------



## Sam L

cenizas said:


> Fiio EM5 ordered! Managed to get a nice price on them, will compare them to the rest of the flagships in my stable once I get them


Congrats! What other flagship buds do you use?


----------



## vygas

So, FAAEAL listed a version of the Snow Lotus 1.0+ Commemorative Edition with a Mic for anyone who wanted it, link in the spoiler below.



Spoiler



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001400321063.html


----------



## Sam L

vygas said:


> So, FAAEAL listed a version of the Snow Lotus 1.0+ Commemorative Edition with a Mic for anyone who wanted it, link in the spoiler below.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice! I actually just recently found my non-mic version after losing it for 3 months.   I'm going to measure it and make a compensation file for it and see how it turns out.

Thanks for the info!


----------



## vygas

Sam L said:


> Nice! I actually just recently found my non-mic version after losing it for 3 months.   I'm going to measure it and make a compensation file for it and see how it turns out.
> 
> Thanks for the info!


I'd be pretty interested in the results of your experiment . Glad you found your pair though.


----------



## Sam L

anyone in the SF Bay area with a bunch of earbuds?

I'd love to meet up and graph the most popular models to build compensation files for them.


----------



## rprodrigues

Regarding ME80...


----------



## Sam L

rprodrigues said:


> Regarding ME80...


What?! Ummm... Sad to see one of their best buds retired.


----------



## Sam L (Oct 8, 2020)

K's Nameless users with wavelet or peace / apo.

Here are new files based on v1.3 target curve

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbud-target-curve-tests.944006/page-2#post-15907058


----------



## Sam L

Sam L said:


> K's Nameless users with wavelet or peace / apo.
> 
> Here's are new files based on v1.3 target curve
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbud-target-curve-tests.944006/page-2#post-15907058


I just generated this so I'm still testing it. I tested the v1.3 target curve a bit on the Monk Lite 120 earlier yesterday. @assassin10000 v1.3 starts the bass rise from 125hz per your suggestion.

I think this file came out great for the K's Nameless. I'd love to hear other opinions!

v1.3 target:


----------



## Sam L

I'll graph the K's compensated later tonight. I'm kind of surprised how good the bass is even with such a smooth bass target curve in v1.3.

After the bass bloat is removed, the soundstage opens up even more, a fresh reminder of how much value buds bring to the audiophile community. Love it.


----------



## assassin10000

Sam L said:


> I'll graph the K's compensated later tonight. I'm kind of surprised how good the bass is even with such a smooth bass target curve in v1.3.
> 
> After the bass bloat is removed, the soundstage opens up even more, a fresh reminder of how much value buds bring to the audiophile community. Love it.



Maybe for earbuds the low end / bass response is more like headphones where flat is good but still needs some pinna gain like IEMs?


----------



## Sam L

assassin10000 said:


> Maybe for earbuds the low end / bass response is more like headphones where flat is good but still needs some pinna gain like IEMs?


Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I'm sure there are some other variables at play, ie. venting and shell material (the bk2 doesn't have this much bass with compensation.) I can't find my bk2 at the moment to test v1.3 with.


----------



## onedvt

Sam L said:


> I just generated this so I'm still testing it. I tested the v1.3 target curve a bit on the Monk Lite 120 earlier yesterday. @assassin10000 v1.3 starts the bass rise from 125hz per your suggestion.
> 
> I think this file came out great for the K's Nameless. I'd love to hear other opinions!
> 
> v1.3 target:


How did v1.3 go with the Monk Lite 120s?


----------



## Sam L

onedvt said:


> How did v1.3 go with the Monk Lite 120s?


oops I thought I sent it to you already. I think it's the best so far. Let me know what you think.


----------



## fokta

fokta said:


> just want to share...
> 
> a kind collector send me 6 units of old Monk earbud.. I blind try this... and find quite interesting finding on my own..
> 
> ...



And I pull the trigger, trade some of my cable collections for this OLD Monk.. 




in Frame : Unknown local earbud (Diomnes Lv2 wanna be) & VE Monk (middle batch) 

Earbud is quite unique and fascinating...


----------



## rprodrigues

Anyone with both Fengru Diy MX500 and Nicehck diy mx500?

If so, are they so different?


----------



## onedvt (Oct 8, 2020)

Sam L said:


> oops I thought I sent it to you already. I think it's the best so far. Let me know what you think.


Thanks! Had to give it a thorough listen as the changes were ever so slightly distinct compared to v1.2. To my untrained ears the bass is a bit tighter and feels faster, with better separation from the mids. Upper mids and highs sound a bit more refined. Definitely the most 'neutral' one so far? Will be using this one for now.

EDIT: there's a bit of sibilance in some tracks. not harsh, just sounds like the singer has a lisp


----------



## Sam L

onedvt said:


> Thanks! Had to give it a thorough listen as the changes were ever so slightly distinct compared to v1.2. To my untrained ears the bass is a bit tighter and feels faster, with better separation from the mids. Upper mids and highs sound a bit more refined. Definitely the most 'neutral' one so far? Will be using this one for now.
> 
> EDIT: there's a bit of sibilance in some tracks. not harsh, just sounds like the singer has a lisp


Yes, v.1.3 is the most neutral and balanced so far. But in the world of IEMs it's far from a neutral tonality. I agree, I think it's the best so far and my main target curve.

If there's a spotify or youtube track of the song you're hearing sibilance in, can you post that here with a timestamp? I want to make a note of it and see how it plays out in other instances. 

After I get a stable target curve, I'll likely create two sets of compensation files -- one that is neutral-ish and another that is bass-oriented for people like @RikudouGoku


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> Yes, v.1.3 is the most neutral and balanced so far. But in the world of IEMs it's far from a neutral tonality. I agree, I think it's the best so far and my main target curve.
> 
> If there's a spotify or youtube track of the song you're hearing sibilance in, can you post that here with a timestamp? I want to make a note of it and see how it plays out in other instances.
> 
> After I get a stable target curve, I'll likely create two sets of compensation files -- one that is neutral-ish and another that is bass-oriented for people like @RikudouGoku


Nice, I wouldnt exactly call myself a basshead but I do appreciate and like to have some bass quantity (especially bass that is similar to iems in earbuds). Although if quality drops then I want nothing to do with it lol.

A nice balance of quality/quantity is probably my ideal for the bass in both iems/buds.


----------



## onedvt

Sam L said:


> Yes, v.1.3 is the most neutral and balanced so far. But in the world of IEMs it's far from a neutral tonality. I agree, I think it's the best so far and my main target curve.
> 
> If there's a spotify or youtube track of the song you're hearing sibilance in, can you post that here with a timestamp? I want to make a note of it and see how it plays out in other instances.
> 
> After I get a stable target curve, I'll likely create two sets of compensation files -- one that is neutral-ish and another that is bass-oriented for people like @RikudouGoku


OK, false alarm. The sibilance jumps out only when the autoeq strength is set to 100%, which I should've realized is a given as it sounds unnatural (and metallic?) when its maxed out. 40% seems to be the sweet spot for me personally. Sounds more natural. At 40% I don't find any sibilance at all, maybe just a little hissy but definitely not uncomfortable. Bear in mind I'm still new and at a point where I'm only starting to get used to brighter sound profiles, so I don't really have a clear idea of what 'quality' treble sounds like yet. For reference purposes here's a sample track (start at 0.32).

Having two sets of compensation files would be nice though, I'd alternate between the two depending on the music that's playing.


----------



## waynes world

rprodrigues said:


> Regarding ME80...



Time to go into extreme pamper mode!


----------



## Sam L

waynes world said:


> Time to go into extreme pamper mode!


serious... at least the build is pretty robust with the all metal shell and stems.


----------



## waynes world

onedvt said:


> OK, false alarm. The sibilance jumps out only when the autoeq strength is set to 100%, which I should've realized is a given as it sounds unnatural (and metallic?) when its maxed out. 40% seems to be the sweet spot for me personally. Sounds more natural. At 40% I don't find any sibilance at all, maybe just a little hissy but definitely not uncomfortable. Bear in mind I'm still new and at a point where I'm only starting to get used to brighter sound profiles, so I don't really have a clear idea of what 'quality' treble sounds like yet. For reference purposes here's a sample track (start at 0.32).



I'm not sure that track would be prone to sibilance, but are you referring to her voice? There definitely is some bass/sub-bass kicking in around the 0.32 mark though, and that could result in distortion with the autoeq strength set too high. 

p.s. cool track!


----------



## jogawag (Oct 8, 2020)

Sam L said:


> serious... at least the build is pretty robust with the all metal shell and stems.



I'm not sure if it's available from your country, but the ME80 is still available at the following sites now.

https://www.tokopedia.com/wedangjah...hifi-metal-earbud-15-4mm-dynamic-driver-metal

https://www.amazon.co.jp//dp/B07TC33XB3


----------



## Sam L

waynes world said:


> I'm not sure that track would be prone to sibilance, but are you referring to her voice? There definitely is some bass/sub-bass kicking in around the 0.32 mark though, and that could result in distortion with the autoeq strength set too high.
> 
> p.s. cool track!


I gave the track a listen. A couple things to note:

- I agree with @waynes world world the deep bass all over the track can cause some distortion that can affect how we hear other parts of the FR.
- @onedvt you might be more sensitive to sibilance at different parts of the spectrum. The most common area of sibilance is in the 6k range, but some people can be affected down to as low as around 4.5k. I'm guessing @waynes world is not-as-young and won't hear it as much as you. I'm old (51) so it takes alot for me to hear sibilance.

Going foward, I presume eq strength will be lowered manually as needed. I tend to use it in the 60-75% range. I haven't really given any thought if I should investigate adding a negative value preamp setting to a wavelet file.


----------



## waynes world

Sam L said:


> I gave the track a listen. A couple things to note:
> 
> - I agree with @waynes world world the deep bass all over the track can cause some distortion that can affect how we hear other parts of the FR.
> - @onedvt you might be more sensitive to sibilance at different parts of the spectrum. The most common area of sibilance is in the 6k range, but some people can be affected down to as low as around 4.5k. *I'm guessing @waynes world is not-as-young and won't hear it as much as you. I'm old (51) so it takes alot for me to hear sibilance.*



You guessed right. I'm ancient (56). Leaden ears unite!


----------



## onedvt (Oct 9, 2020)

waynes world said:


> I'm not sure that track would be prone to sibilance, but are you referring to her voice? There definitely is some bass/sub-bass kicking in around the 0.32 mark though, and that could result in distortion with the autoeq strength set too high.
> 
> p.s. cool track!


Oh, yeah I'm referring to her voice (does that count as sibilance?). It is catchy


----------



## onedvt

Sam L said:


> I gave the track a listen. A couple things to note:
> 
> - I agree with @waynes world world the deep bass all over the track can cause some distortion that can affect how we hear other parts of the FR.
> - @onedvt you might be more sensitive to sibilance at different parts of the spectrum. The most common area of sibilance is in the 6k range, but some people can be affected down to as low as around 4.5k. I'm guessing @waynes world is not-as-young and won't hear it as much as you. I'm old (51) so it takes alot for me to hear sibilance.
> ...


Interesting. Never occured to me that distortion from deep bass can affect how we hear other frequencies. As I mentioned before it's not quite sibilance I'm hearing - perhaps treble extension? (sorry, still learning the vernacular) Will try setting autoeq at the strength you mentioned.


----------



## axhng

This was one of the last sellers on shopee.sg that listed the item and my friend ordered one hoping they would have some in inventory. But in the end as suspected they just forgot to update the listing.


----------



## rprodrigues

axhng said:


> This was one of the last sellers on shopee.sg that listed the item and my friend ordered one hoping they would have some in inventory. But in the end as suspected they just forgot to update the listing.



What a pity!
I was going to order from the same seller.


----------



## SiggyFraud

ME80 is still available at the official Nicehck store on Ali.


----------



## povidlo

SiggyFraud said:


> ME80 is still available at the official Nicehck store on Ali.


No, it's out of stock!


----------



## rprodrigues

R.I.P. ME80...

Since ME80 has gone, what buds would be a nice replacement for them (sound wise)?
Would Toneking TP16 be a good replacement?


----------



## SiggyFraud

povidlo said:


> No, it's out of stock!


You're right. It was still available when I posted the link.


----------



## wskl

Maybe NiceHCK have found a few more units of the ME80 (5 left)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33041694447.html


----------



## rprodrigues

wskl said:


> Maybe NiceHCK have found a few more units of the ME80 (5 left)



I've just ordered mine.
Thank you for sharing!


----------



## povidlo

wskl said:


> Maybe NiceHCK have found a few more units of the ME80 (5 left)
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33041694447.html


Ordered! Thank you!


----------



## povidlo

SiggyFraud said:


> You're right. It was still available when I posted the link.


Sorry, didn't realize it's coming back in stock intermittently.


----------



## baskingshark

I asked some Aliexpress sellers and manufcaturers why they don't wanna restart production for out of stock gear that is well regarded, for example this ME80. And instead, they go on to produce a different line of products once something is sold out.

So they say they in general they make stuff by batches, this includes the mould and shells and drivers and cables etc. They for example ask factory A to make 1000 shells, and factory B to make 1000 drivers, and factory C to make 1000 cables. They then assemble these items to be the final product. So once they sell out these 1000 pieces, they have to go source from these different factories A, B, C for the same parts to reassemble the IEM/earbud. And sometimes the driver or shell is no longer available, or maybe factory A has wound up, so there is no way that the same item can be remade as it was.

And these manufacturers also say it costs cheaper per piece to make more pieces of an IEM/earbud than just to make a few pieces only. So if they sold out the 1000 pieces, they ain't keen to just ask the different factories A, B and C to re open just to make a few more pieces to cater to a few requests. They would rather spam 1000 pieces at one shot, but they ain't sure there'll be demand for so many.

Interesting stuff, but I'm sad to see the ME80 being phased out as such. I don't hold high hopes for seeing the ME80 being sold in new batches, but hopefully their new models are better! Or one can keep their fingers crossed for a ME80 Pro???


----------



## Sam L

baskingshark said:


> I asked some Aliexpress sellers and manufcaturers why they don't wanna restart production for out of stock gear that is well regarded, for example this ME80. And instead, they go on to produce a different line of products once something is sold out.
> 
> So they say they in general they make stuff by batches, this includes the mould and shells and drivers and cables etc. They for example ask factory A to make 1000 shells, and factory B to make 1000 drivers, and factory C to make 1000 cables. They then assemble these items to be the final product. So once they sell out these 1000 pieces, they have to go source from these different factories A, B, C for the same parts to reassemble the IEM/earbud. And sometimes the driver or shell is no longer available, or maybe factory A has wound up, so there is no way that the same item can be remade as it was.
> 
> ...


interesting info, thanks for sharing.


----------



## rprodrigues

@baskingshark 
That explains why the well accepted kb04 ,  from KBear, have been early replaced by the not-so-good ks2.


----------



## baskingshark (Oct 9, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> @baskingshark
> That explains why the well accepted kb04 ,  from KBear, have been early replaced by the not-so-good ks2.



Yeah I was wondering why they were trying to undercut their own sales by releasing a similarly priced V shaped IEM haha.
I personally felt the KBEAR KS2 wasn't as good as the KB04 too.

Oh wells, for the current ME80 owners, better hold on to it. It might fetch a good price at a second hand sales site! Or maybe even in a museum hall of fame haha.


----------



## 1Q84

baskingshark said:


> Yeah I was wondering why they were trying to undercut their own sales by releasing a similarly priced V shaped IEM haha.
> I personally felt the KBEAR KS2 wasn't as good as the KB04 too.
> 
> Oh wells, for the current ME80 owners, better hold on to it. It might fetch a bargain a second hand sales site! Or maybe even in a museum hall of fame haha.


are there any other buds that can compare with ME80 timbre and details? was about to pull the trigger the day they got sold out. got the koss ksc75 instead.


----------



## Sam L

1Q84 said:


> are there any other buds that can compare with ME80 timbre and details? was about to pull the trigger the day they got sold out. got the koss ksc75 instead.


Ummm. I have to think about that. It was a pretty unique bud. The bk2 might be similiar-ish but the bass on the bk2 is a bit more laid back than the me80. I can't find my bk2 at the moment.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 10, 2020)

The BK2's bass is more present if you replace the included silver plated MMCX cable with a copper MMCX cable.

By the way, I finally bought the Moondrop CHACONNE after all this time. I've avoided CHACONNE for a while, because the cable of Liebesleid broke while I was fiddling with Liebesleid which has heavy and uncomfortable fit before.
But the CHACONNE had an improved fit, and the cable seems to be hard to break. And as expected of about $300 earbuds, the sound is crystal clear and the bass is good enough with the silicon ring.

But it's the same as me buying about $550($300+$250) earbuds, and I can't help but think that the biggest winner was Moondrop at the end of the game.   

Also by the way, the TOTL earbuds that @ClieOS mentions contain a lot of bad fitting bombs, don't they? Most earbuds can't be tried and tested, so I also have had painful experiences many times with the Liebesleid, Rose Mojito/Masya, Sennheiser MX985 and DQSM Turandot, among others.  😭😭😭
A good fit of earbuds leads to good sound, so I I don't want @ClieOS to include these ones in TOTL earbuds.


----------



## digititus

baskingshark said:


> And these manufacturers also say it costs cheaper per piece to make more pieces of an IEM/earbud than just to make a few pieces only. So if they sold out the 1000 pieces, they ain't keen to just ask the different factories A, B and C to re open just to make a few more pieces to cater to a few requests. They would rather spam 1000 pieces at one shot, but they ain't sure there'll be demand for so many.


From experience, this is 100% correct. Unless you are a full cycle producer (you produce all the parts), then this is essentially how the manufacturing process works.


----------



## fokta

Got friend lend me BK2 only. so I pair with my cable collections...
Quite impressive how cable can affect sound sig...
I like the Detail Bass, puncy yet tight. and not over laying vocal. Not a treble lover earbud...
pairing with CEMA 173 cable (in pic the cable is PW5) ... this BK2 really impress me...


----------



## docentore

rprodrigues said:


> R.I.P. ME80...
> 
> Since ME80 has gone, what buds would be a nice replacement for them (sound wise)?
> Would Toneking TP16 be a good replacement?


Toneking tp16 is decent bud.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 10, 2020)

fokta said:


> Got friend lend me BK2 only. so I pair with my cable collections...
> Quite impressive how cable can affect sound sig...
> I like the Detail Bass, puncy yet tight. and not over laying vocal. Not a treble lover earbud...
> pairing with CEMA 173 cable (in pic the cable is PW5) ... this BK2 really impress me...



The BK2 will have more deep bass and feel better if you use double foam  (donut foam on full foam) for BK2 with $5 OFC copper MMCX cable.

And for reference, the original Smabat ST-10's mid and treble become warm enough with $5 OCC copper MMCX cable.

Please try them!


----------



## rprodrigues (Oct 10, 2020)

Is there any hd650-like earbuds below $ 20 ?

I've read some posts before that say that the Faaeal Rosemary (balanced version) has a similar signature.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 10, 2020)

impedance 120Ω
Misprint?  New version? Old prototype? This is an image I picked up on SNS.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

jogawag said:


> impedance 120Ω
> Misprint?  New version? Old prototype? This is an image I picked up on SNS.


Misprint


----------



## povidlo

Alex.Grimm said:


> Misprint


Manual sheet in the box says 40 ohm


----------



## Alex.Grimm

povidlo said:


> Manual sheet in the box says 40 ohm


Yes, I remember , lol


----------



## povidlo

Just the other day picked up my first earbud in a while: ST-10s Gold  

Thanks to @DBaldock9 @golov17 and other members who kindly have shared their thoughts on these buds across the web. 

I'm very, very happy so far. Listening right now to Bass Box playlist on Amazon HD through Liquid Platinum, the experience is just awesome. Excellent all-around, especially the low end and soundstage stand out so far. Just 5-10 hours in, they sound warm, a bit veiled, but still detailed and fast. 

Stock cable is nice but I swapped for the stock cable that comes with Shouer Tape in order to go balanced. 

To be honest, looking back now they sounded just OK (read: bad) when I initially tried them with my DAPs and portable amps. Not sure if it's specifically a synergy thingy with Liquid Platinum or not but it does appear that at 150 ohms they need lots of juice. 

Ordered ME-80, and eyeing few other ones for 11/11 or for the coming "Amazin' Day" sale on Ali that starts on Monday (no relation to Prime Day haha): BK2, RW-9, Monk Lite 120, Bell-LB, Iris CE, Snow Lotus 2.5mm, DIY MX500, X6, Traceless, Nameless, Vido Red. All these seems to be fairly universally well-reviewed. 

If anyone has both ST-10s Gold and Zen Lite, please share your thoughts. I'm also eyeing Zen Lite 2.5mm which has been discounted by a lot, but couldn't find much feedback on it.


----------



## DBaldock9

jogawag said:


> impedance 120Ω
> Misprint?  New version? Old prototype? This is an image I picked up on SNS.



After seeing this, I used my Ohmmeter on my Smabat ST-10s (Gold/Black), and they actually measured 300-Ω, rather than the 120-Ω that was originally advertised.


----------



## OklahKekW

Isn't the ST-10S silver one 40Ω and gold one 150Ω (2020 version)


----------



## povidlo

DBaldock9 said:


> After seeing this, I used my Ohmmeter on my Smabat ST-10s (Gold/Black), and they actually measured 300-Ω, rather than the 120-Ω that was originally advertised.


I think they're advertised as 150. I can totally see them being 300 based on my experience.  Thank you for measuring.


----------



## mkz

jogawag said:


> The BK2 will have more deep bass and feel better if you use double foam  (donut foam on full foam) for BK2 with $5 OFC copper MMCX cable.
> 
> And for reference, the original Smabat ST-10's mid and treble become warm enough with $5 OCC copper MMCX cable.
> 
> Please try them!



Do you have a link for those copper MMCX cable? Thanks.


----------



## DBaldock9

OklahKekW said:


> Isn't the ST-10S silver one 40Ω and gold one 150Ω (2020 version)





povidlo said:


> I think they're advertised as 150. I can totally see them being 300 based on my experience.  Thank you for measuring.



Here's a quote from the screenshot that AliExpress made, when I placed my order in March -
~~~
*5. *Impedance: 45Ω(ST-10) */* 40Ω(ST-10s Silver) */*120Ω(ST-10s Gold)
~~~


----------



## povidlo

DBaldock9 said:


> Here's a quote from the screenshot that AliExpress made, when I placed my order in March -
> ~~~
> *5. *Impedance: 45Ω(ST-10) */* 40Ω(ST-10s Silver) */*120Ω(ST-10s Gold)
> ~~~



NiceHCK store on Aliexpress has them listed at 150 now. It's all over the place. Sheet in the box says 40.


----------



## jogawag

mkz said:


> Do you have a link for those copper MMCX cable? Thanks.



OFC MMCX cable in Aliexpress is a bit more expensive than in my country:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32974773971.html

OCC MMCX cable in Aliexpress:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32977455076.html

Please try them.


----------



## mkz

jogawag said:


> OFC MMCX cable in Aliexpress is a bit more expensive than in my country:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32974773971.html
> 
> OCC MMCX cable in Aliexpress:
> ...



Thanks. Appreciate it.


----------



## vygas (Oct 10, 2020)

Got my late night impulse buy from eBay this morning, a lot of 4 FAAEAL buds for £20.



Spoiler









The top pair is my personal pair of SL 1.0+ CE's whilst the bottom row are (in order) the Rosemary, SL 2.0, Narcissus 2.0 and another pair of SL 1.0+ CE's. Favourite out of the bunch is definitely the Narcissus 2.0, they seem to run well off my G8X too. Anyone else here still have their pair of the Narcissus 2.0?


----------



## fokta

jogawag said:


> The BK2 will have more deep bass and feel better if you use double foam  (donut foam on full foam) for BK2 with $5 OFC copper MMCX cable.
> 
> And for reference, the original Smabat ST-10's mid and treble become warm enough with $5 OCC copper MMCX cable.
> 
> Please try them!


hmm.. Cost me 1 foam broken.... but worthy to try. 
I prefer 1 full foam.. much more controllable bass..


----------



## jogawag (Oct 10, 2020)

fokta said:


> hmm.. Cost me 1 foam broken.... but worthy to try.
> I prefer 1 full foam.. much more controllable bass..



The BK2 has fairly small PK shell and can be used with double foams.
The second donut foam should be fully loosened before you put it on.


----------



## baskingshark

DBaldock9 said:


> After seeing this, I used my Ohmmeter on my Smabat ST-10s (Gold/Black), and they actually measured 300-Ω, rather than the 120-Ω that was originally advertised.



Actually I think @DBaldock9 is right, the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold impedance is probably more than the advertised 120 ohm. I don't have measuring gear, but the Black Gold is the hardest to drive in my earbud collection, takes even more juice than the HE 150 Pro (150 ohm) and the RY4S 300 ohm (300 ohm as per the name). Definitely sounds meh from low powered smartphones, needs amping to realize its true potential.


----------



## Sam L

baskingshark said:


> Actually I think @DBaldock9 is right, the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold impedance is probably more than the advertised 120 ohm. I don't have measuring gear, but the Black Gold is the hardest to drive in my earbud collection, takes even more juice than the HE 150 Pro (150 ohm) and the RY4S 300 ohm (300 ohm as per the name). Definitely sounds meh from low powered smartphones, needs amping to realize its true potential.


Hmm. Good to know. I've been thinking about that model. I'm still waiting on delivery of my Sony nw-a105. I need to double check if that can even drive 300 ohms decently. Anyone try?


----------



## povidlo

Sam L said:


> Hmm. Good to know. I've been thinking about that model. I'm still waiting on delivery of my Sony nw-a105. I need to double check if that can even drive 300 ohms decently. Anyone try?


My EU volume-capped nwa105 drove them to good volume, but had to use ClearAudio+ DSP to get decent dynamics.


----------



## Sam L

povidlo said:


> My EU volume-capped nwa105 drove them to good volume, but had to use ClearAudio+ DSP to get decent dynamics.


Ah. Thank you for the info!


----------



## assassin10000

jogawag said:


> The BK2 has fairly small PK shell and can be used with double foams.
> The second donut foam should be fully loosened before you put it on.



BK2 is not PK sized shell. The driver is listed as 14.8mm but the diameter is not PK size. It is a slightly thicker MX500 size. I measured mine with digital calipers at 16.8mm


----------



## Sam L

assassin10000 said:


> BK2 is not PK sized shell. The driver is listed as 14.8mm but the diameter is not PK size. It is a slightly thicker MX500 size. I measured mine with digital calipers at 16.8mm


Damn, all this bk2 talk makes me frustrated I can't find mine. grrrr.


----------



## assassin10000

rprodrigues said:


> Is there any hd650-like earbuds below $ 20 ?
> 
> I've read some posts before that say that the Faaeal Rosemary (balanced version) has a similar signature.



I'm not a headphone guy but can you describe the sound you're looking for? And maybe include an FR graph.

Might help someone here narrow down some choices for you.


----------



## jogawag

Sam L said:


> Damn, all this bk2 talk makes me frustrated I can't find mine. grrrr.



I don't think it's a problem for you to get the BK2.
I have the DIY SR2 and docomo earbuds, which are the same size as the Yuin PK1/2.
And the BK2 is about the same size as the DIY SR2 and Docomo earbuds. And the BK2 is thinner than the MX500.
At least the BK2 is smaller than NiceHCK B40.

Maybe @assassin10000 had their parents killed by earbuds bigger than the size of the Yuin PK1/2 (????). And maybe he just became not to like earbuds that are any larger than the Yuin PK1/2.


----------



## assassin10000

jogawag said:


> I don't think it's a problem for you to get the BK2.
> I have the DIY SR2 and docomo earbuds, which are the same size as the Yuin PK1/2.
> And the BK2 is about the same size as the DIY SR2 and Docomo earbuds. And the BK2 is thinner than the MX500.
> At least the BK2 is smaller than NiceHCK B40.
> ...



So far anything 16.7/16.8mm is uncomfortable for me. The best of these are the Smabat ST-10, as it's thinner design gives the best fit of the larger diameter buds, at least for me.

I thought the BK2 with the 14.8mm driver would be smaller diameter like LBB/PK shells. As I found out, it is not. It was uncomfortable for me and that is why I measured them. Ymmv, depending on your ear shape.


----------



## jogawag

assassin10000 said:


> So far anything 16.7/16.8mm is uncomfortable for me. The best of these are the Smabat ST-10, as it's thinner design gives the best fit of the larger diameter buds, at least for me.
> 
> I thought the BK2 with the 14.8mm driver would be smaller diameter like LBB/PK shells. As I found out, it is not. It was uncomfortable for me and that is why I measured them. Ymmv, depending on your ear shape.



I bought the calipers today and will receive them tomorrow.
You don't have a BK2 anymore, do you? Instead I will measure its diameter and post it tomorrow.


----------



## slex

My last pair of buds is Penon BS-1 from almost 2 years back. Any owners replaced them yet? If so, what buds did you replace? And what made them better? Thanks


----------



## jogawag (Oct 12, 2020)

This is the diameter of each earbuds measured with a caliper.

docomo :16.2mm
DIY SR2 :16.2mm
BK2 :16.4mm
B40 :16.5mm
MX500:16.7mm

However, the edges of the speaker are thin, so the diameter of the BK2 feels like 16.2mm for my fit.


----------



## rprodrigues

assassin10000 said:


> I'm not a headphone guy but can you describe the sound you're looking for? And maybe include an FR graph.
> 
> Might help someone here narrow down some choices for you.



Here it is:


Spoiler: hd650 FR








By the way, since the Nicehck DIY MX500 PK1 sound too bad, I'm going to replace their drivers. 
What ones do you recommend? Are the PK red film a good alternative?


----------



## Nool

Anyone know what material the diaphragm is in the Yincrow RW-9? The X6 clearly states it's biocellulose (which is the same type used in the Sony MH755), but there's nothing explicit in any of the RW-9 listings on AliExpress, other than the word "metal" in its title which makes me suspect titanium coated plastic.

Also if anyone can comment the differences between the me80 and RW-9, that would be appreciated. They seem to have a similar neutral tuning with the RW-9 being more warm. If the technicals are the same that might be a hint.

I have both in my cart, just waiting for the Moondrop SSP to be released then I'll probably buy all that at once, hopefully during 11.11. I'm also grabbing this cheapo pair recommended by another user here (dunno if he wants to be @'d here) https://a.aliexpress.com/_m047YvD
Apparently that's got a titanium (probably titanium composite) diaphragm, I'll gamble on it.

I'm gonna be amused if any of these wind up replacing my Rambo2.


----------



## assassin10000 (Oct 12, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> Here it is:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: hd650 FR
> ...



Looks like it has a bit of warmth with bass roll off and neutral/flat mids and highs with good extension. Would that description match how you hear the hd650? I'm not 100% up on how to interpret headphone graphs, so just making sure.

Do you know how much pinna gain you might prefer (maybe with IEMs)? Some prefer 6-8db, 8-10db, 10-12db or more, depending on their sensitivity and ear anatomy.


The 150Ω redfilm are great drivers but can/does have more bass extension/less roll off than the hd650. Not 100% sure its what I would recommend if trying to match the hd650.


----------



## rprodrigues (Oct 12, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Looks like it has a bit of warmth with bass roll off and neutral/flat mids and highs with good extension. Would that description match how you hear the hd650? I'm not 100% up on how to interpret headphone graphs, so just making sure.
> 
> Do you know how much pinna gain you might prefer (maybe with IEMs)? Some prefer 6-8db, 8-10db, 10-11db or more, depending on their sensitivity and ear anatomy.




Yeah. Your description matches what I hear.

About the pinna gain, I don't know.

About the redfilm drivers, the bass extension is not a problem. In this case I just want to get better drives for my nicehck mx500 pk1 since they sound so veiled.


----------



## assassin10000

rprodrigues said:


> Yeah. Your description matches what I hear.
> 
> About the pinna gain, I don't know.
> 
> About the redfilm drivers, the bass extension is not a problem. In this case I just want to get better drives for my nicehck mx500 pk1 since they sound so veiled.



Of the buds I've heard, I'd probably go with the 2020 K's LBB or maybe the me80 if you can find one. The me80 may be a bit lean or cold tho.


Is the nicehck mx500 pk1 a sennheiser type shell with 15.4mm driver or a yuin type shell with 14.8mm driver?


----------



## rprodrigues (Oct 12, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Of the buds I've heard, I'd probably go with the 2020 K's LBB or maybe the me80 if you can find one. The me80 may be a bit lean or cold tho.
> 
> 
> Is the nicehck mx500 pk1 a sennheiser type shell with 15.4mm driver or a yuin type shell with 14.8mm driver?



It is very nice because I've already ordered the me80 some days ago.
Thank you for the suggestion!

The nicehck mx500 pk1 use yuin shells.


----------



## assassin10000

rprodrigues said:


> It is very nice because I've already ordered the me80 some days ago.
> Thank you for the suggestion!
> 
> The nicehck mx500 pk1 use yuin shells.



I'd try the 64Ω n55 drivers. They're tied for my second favorite DIY 14.8mm driver. Bass rolls off similar to the hd650 but mids & highs are good. As with all diy though, it most likely will require some tuning.

These are the ones I have:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32978993535.html


----------



## Sam L

assassin10000 said:


> Looks like it has a bit of warmth with bass roll off and neutral/flat mids and highs with good extension. Would that description match how you hear the hd650? I'm not 100% up on how to interpret headphone graphs, so just making sure.
> 
> Do you know how much pinna gain you might prefer (maybe with IEMs)? Some prefer 6-8db, 8-10db, 10-12db or more, depending on their sensitivity and ear anatomy.
> 
> ...


autoeq has a switch to generate compensation files that generates eq files to match the signature of another headphone. But then the challenge is figure out how to translate FR graphs between headphones, iems and earbuds.  

After I arrive at a decent earbud target, I hope that things will be more clear at what those differences are.

@rprodrigues if you haven't already, you might want to share what your favorite iems are so the nature of the pinna gain you prefer is more defined. Not only is the slope of the pinna gain a consideration but so is the termination point, ie. 1k to 2k (crin), 1k to 3k, etc.


----------



## Sam L

assassin10000 said:


> I'd try the 64Ω n55 drivers. They're tied for my second favorite DIY 14.8mm driver. Bass rolls off similar to the hd650 but mids & highs are good. As with all diy though, it most likely will require some tuning.
> 
> These are the ones I have:
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32978993535.html


@assassin10000 in your opinion which has more tuning options at the manufacturing level, iems or earbuds?  I'm guessing iems?


----------



## Sam L

rprodrigues said:


> It is very nice because I've already ordered the me80 some days ago.
> Thank you for the suggestion!
> 
> The nicehck mx500 pk1 use yuin shells.


nice, you found a me80 then? one of the last ones...


----------



## rprodrigues (Oct 12, 2020)

Sam L said:


> ...
> @rprodrigues if you haven't already, you might want to share what your favorite iems are so the nature of the pinna gain you prefer is more defined. Not only is the slope of the pinna gain a consideration but so is the termination point, ie. 1k to 2k (crin), 1k to 3k, etc.



The prefered ones are the Fiio FH7 and the BGVP DH3, both neutral iems, but I also like Fiio FD1 (v-shaped), Tin T2 (neutral ?), Tin T2 Plus (warm neutral), and Tri I3 (lack treble however they are so smoootthhhhh).




Sam L said:


> nice, you found a me80 then? one of the last ones...



Yeah. Thanks to @wskl who told us about some remaining units.


----------



## assassin10000

Sam L said:


> @assassin10000 in your opinion which has more tuning options at the manufacturing level, iems or earbuds?  I'm guessing iems?



IEMs. Given the amazing amount and kind of drivers available. Plus not just shell but nozzle tuning as well.


----------



## Sam L

assassin10000 said:


> IEMs. Given the amazing amount and kind of drivers available. Plus not just shell but nozzle tuning as well.


Aside from driver type, what can earbud manufacturers do to change tuning? Smabat resonance chamber, bass tubes. What else?


----------



## assassin10000

Sam L said:


> Aside from driver type, what can earbud manufacturers do to change tuning? Smabat resonance chamber, bass tubes. What else?



Driver venting, ports, shell venting.


----------



## Sam L

Bk2

Before I plot out a new v1.4 target to test, I figured I would give the bk2 some attention. What an excellent bud. It required very little to align with my 1.3 target.


----------



## Nool

Sam L said:


> Bk2
> 
> Before I plot out a new v1.4 target to test, I figured I would give the bk2 some attention. What an excellent bud. It required very little to align with my 1.3 target.


I'll take a wavelet file if you're interested, since I'm already using the Rambo2 setting you made. The bk2 does have solid tuning, just the awful staging seems to crowd out subbass entirely, no matter how much I tried to boost it.


----------



## Sam L

Nool said:


> I'll take a wavelet file if you're interested, since I'm already using the Rambo2 setting you made. The bk2 does have solid tuning, just the awful staging seems to crowd out subbass entirely, no matter how much I tried to boost it.


you got it! I'm actually in middle of re-building the bk2 files


----------



## cqtek

Hello, everybody.

Here I leave you my humble opinion, about the Smabat M2 Pro.
I hope you like it.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-m2-pro.24517/reviews#item-review-24521


----------



## Sam L (Oct 12, 2020)

Nool said:


> I'll take a wavelet file if you're interested, since I'm already using the Rambo2 setting you made. The bk2 does have solid tuning, just the awful staging seems to crowd out subbass entirely, no matter how much I tried to boost it.



The BK2 is wonky with eq. [edit] Actually not wonky with eq, but responds to eq weirdly. It actually sounds great with (and without) compensation. That sub-bass dip is less of a problem than it looks on the graph. The interesting thing is the 1k rise is basically non-existent. (well, technically +1dB to 3k). I'm going to write in a separate post why this is really confusing.

I think it's the 13k spike that messes with the headroom and the autoeq algorithm. Later tonight, I'll make a correction file that terminates at 10khz. I'm still going to attach some files, as imperfect as they are since I spent time on it.

**edit: re-read my post and it makes no sense. lol. That 13k spike doesn't stretch the dynamic range and isn't an issue for the autoeq algorithm. I'm going to tentatively conclude that the BK2 driver doesn't compensate very well. That said, the default tuning is quite good.


----------



## Sam L (Dec 7, 2020)

Ok, I mentioned in my previous post how the BK2 graph highlights some things about earbuds that seem really confusing to understand in relation to IEMs and headphones.

Context here

*On Pinna Gain and Earbuds...*

In case new users are not familiar with what "pinna gain" is, here's my explanation. The short description is along the lines of, "there should be a gain centered around 3khz because of how our ear hears sound." Without this gain, earphones will sound lifeless and flat. For the purposes of our earbuds discussion, it's worth digging a bit deeper into this pinna gain. Similar to pinna gain, is a concept of head gain where sound emanating from headphones pass through the ear even differently from IEMs and require a gain as well (different from IEMs, typically a bit higher in frequency). The differences between pinna and head gain are well understood and pretty obvious if you think about it -- iems, with their insertion into the ear canal, actually bypass the pinna which affects how we hear differently from headphones.

All this to say, this is why IEM curves are different from Headphone curves. But we already knew this.

One more thing to highlight with earbuds and target curves. There is also a pinna notch, typically around 10k but can occur anywhere between 6k to 15k. This notch is due to a combination of phase cancellation affects that occur as sound enters our ear. The impact of this phenomenon can result in some users having treble sensitivity -- these users' pinna notch may be much higher in the spectrum or less impactful to where they actually hear more treble because of less pinna cancellation. So when these users hear an IEM producing upper frequencies that are near a notch region (for other users) of the graph, it can be overwhelming and fatiguing. This can also explain why various dips and notches in measurements do not affect some users at all, while negatively affecting other users.

*Back to Earbuds...*

I'm left with these questions to explore.
- Should an earbud target mimic head gain over pinna gain?
- The BK2 has virtually no pinna gain, yet it sounds great in the upper mids. How?
- It there such a thing of an earbuds version of pinna gain, maybe we should coin the term, earbud gain?
- Since the bud rests outside of our ear canal how do earbud graphs interact with our pinna notch?
- Should there even be a pinna notch with earbuds?


so many questions....


----------



## Nool (Oct 12, 2020)

@Sam L Yeah, I've found using EQ doesn't have much effect over the stock tuning. Cutting the mids seems to carry the most effect, but the bass seems pretty resilient to change (I really suspect it's due to poor staging, but I wouldn't know for sure), and treble is always hard to get right.

Also I want to ask, any reason for that massive treble roll off? I know it's common in Harman, DF etc but it seems to kill a lot of air, and in combination with the 1-8k boost I think it makes treble sound thin and shrill. I have a 3.2db boost at 5khz and 10khz, and left >10khz alone, that's about as bright as I care for. Pinpointing the treble frequencies is very tricky. I'm not overly bothered with getting it exactly right if that's even doable, stock tuning on the bk2 is good enough, I've found cutting the mids and a mild treble boost to be sufficient for it.

Edit: just read your last post. I agree that the largest quandary here is how treble works in earbuds, though as to what ends I haven't a clue.


----------



## Sam L

Nool said:


> @Sam L Yeah, I've found using EQ doesn't have much effect over the stock tuning. Cutting the mids seems to carry the most effect, but the bass seems pretty resilient to change (I really suspect it's due to poor staging, but I wouldn't know for sure), and treble is always hard to get right.
> 
> Also I want to ask, any reason for that massive treble roll off? I know it's common in Harman, DF etc but it seems to kill a lot of air, and in combination with the 1-8k boost I think it makes treble sound thin and shrill. I have a 3.2db boost at 5khz and 10khz, and left >10khz alone, that's about as bright as I care for. Pinpointing the treble frequencies is very tricky. I'm not overly bothered with getting it exactly right if that's even doable, stock tuning on the bk2 is good enough, I've found cutting the mids and a mild treble boost to be sufficient for it.


agreed, the bk2 is a resistant bud! That treble roll-off is there for a bunch of reasons, among there are:
1. the pinna notch interactions i just wrote about in the post above. 
2. the amount of volume at post 10k required to actually make a really noticeable difference would be so high that all the other parts of the graph would suffer tremendously.


----------



## Nool

Sam L said:


> agreed, the bk2 is a resistant bud! That treble roll-off is there for a bunch of reasons, among there are:
> 1. the pinna notch interactions i just wrote about in the post above.
> 2. the amount of volume at post 10k required to actually make a really noticeable difference would be so high that all the other parts of the graph would suffer tremendously.


Well, I lack understanding of the context there, but I do feel treble rolloff from 8k-20khz has some real negative effects. The way I understand it is that the notes we hear aren't just one frequency but a range that peaks at said frequency. For example, based on this chart hitting the highest E on a piano would resonate _around_ 10khz, so cutting off everything after 10-11khz would make it sound much more flat and lifeless.

That's just an assumption on my part though. But I definitely notice a difference nuking 12.5-20khz by 15db, for example on Creedence's "Up Around the Bend", the pickup on the guitar strums get a lot more clicky, and the vocals come in more flat, generally just less body to higher pitched notes.


----------



## baskingshark

rprodrigues said:


> The prefered ones are the Fiio FH7 and the BGVP DH3, both neutral iems, but I also like Fiio FD1 (v-shaped), Tin T2 (neutral ?), Tin T2 Plus (warm neutral), and Tri I3 (lack treble however they are so smoootthhhhh).
> 
> Yeah. Thanks to @wskl who told us about some remaining units.



I am treble sensitive and I do find the TRI I3 lacking in treble sparkle and extension. But perhaps u can try using wider bore tips eg Tenmark Whirlwinds, they tend to boost treble for me. Or if u believe in cables, u can try a silver cable with it.



Sam L said:


> Ok, I mentioned in my previous post how the BK2 graph highlights some things about earbuds that seem really confusing to understand in relation to IEMs and headphones.
> 
> Context here
> 
> ...



This pinna gain thing is quite interesting (for IEMs), thanks for the explanation. I guess everyone has different ear anatomies, and that may explain why some are more sensitive to the upper mids 3 kHz area than others (eg Moondrop SSR). 

I think the Fletcher Munson curve does apply to earbuds. I find the sound on earbuds is perceived as V shaped at higher volumes, compared to U shaped at softer volumes.


----------



## mochill

https://www.head-fi.org/members/mochill.290781/#showcase-reviews


----------



## Sam L

Nool said:


> Well, I lack understanding of the context there, but I do feel treble rolloff from 8k-20khz has some real negative effects. The way I understand it is that the notes we hear aren't just one frequency but a range that peaks at said frequency.
> 
> Partially correct. The notes we hear rarely peaks at the named frequency. Instead, there is a fundamental which is mostly defined by the onset of the note, followed by harmonic material that follows. Depending on the instrument, the harmonic interactions that follow can be very complicated and is further nuanced by the instrument emitting the sound. For example on a violin when a note is played, the fundamental resides at the actual pitch that is played and is followed by harmonic resonances that can originate from the rest of the string, as well as the cavity of the instrument. In addition to this, there are circumstances where harmonic overtones can extend above and below the fundamental note. (ie. two notes played together in perfect intonation will activate harmonic over and under tones of the G string.)
> 
> ...


----------



## Sam L

v1.4 target is up.

Info and Monk lite 120 files are here.

@waynes world , @onedvt


----------



## Sam L

Sam L said:


> The BK2 is wonky with eq. [edit] Actually not wonky with eq, but responds to eq weirdly. It actually sounds great with (and without) compensation. That sub-bass dip is less of a problem than it looks on the graph. The interesting thing is the 1k rise is basically non-existent. (well, technically +1dB to 3k). I'm going to write in a separate post why this is really confusing.
> 
> I think it's the 13k spike that messes with the headroom and the autoeq algorithm. Later tonight, I'll make a correction file that terminates at 10khz. I'm still going to attach some files, as imperfect as they are since I spent time on it.
> 
> **edit: re-read my post and it makes no sense. lol. That 13k spike doesn't stretch the dynamic range and isn't an issue for the autoeq algorithm. I'm going to tentatively conclude that the BK2 driver doesn't compensate very well. That said, the default tuning is quite good.



Here's v1.4 for the bk2. Less treble roll off. Lot more detail retrieval now. I'm still listening and evaluating. 

Let me know what you think @Nool


----------



## axhng

Yincrow x6 is finally here. bass is indeed one of the punchiest I've heard from the handful of earbuds that I have tried. but well, not really my cup of tea ultimately. haha. not sure if colour matters just like for vidos, but for this unit at least, I feel like the upper mids and highs are a little duller. Like in this track I feel like the double bass sounds a bit too prominent and the violin sounds a little dull for my taste.


the short version, I definitely still prefer the ME80 over these.






side note. Tried to get my faulty jietu EMX500 MMCX replaced with the seller, but it just ended up being a massive pain. Seller agreed to replace it after providing evidence, but i have to place an order on a listing for "replacement service", and had to pay like 2 SGD for it including shipping. No biggie. Decided to add in a cheap TRN MMCX cable that I would just leave connected to the EMX500 since I'm paying for shipping anyway.

The package arrived a day or 2 ago but the DIY EMX500 MMCX were nowhere to be found. Instead I was sent another pair of KBEAR Stellar. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ gave up and just requested for refund. Seller tried to refuse the claim saying they replace my faulty Stellar. lol. Shopee stepped in, and I provided them all the evidence of me making it crystal clear to the seller (screenshots of the chats, my comment on the order, etc.) that it was the EMX500 and it was the seller's fault. Got the refund for the 2nd order only since the EMX500 were considered "settled". So in the end I still ended up paying for a cable that I have no use for, and another pair of KBEAR Stellar that I have no intentions of using.


----------



## rprodrigues

@axhng

It is very nice to know your prefer the ME80 over the X6. I was between the two, but I finished ordering the ME80 since I prefer a more neutral signature.

What a bad experience you had on Shopee! I'm sorry for that.
I've been ordering some things from Shopee lately. I will thus avoid ordering from Jietu's store.


----------



## axhng

rprodrigues said:


> @axhng
> 
> It is very nice to know your prefer the ME80 over the X6. I was between the two, but I finished ordering the ME80 since I prefer a more neutral signature.
> 
> ...



 well, i wouldn't specifically avoid jietu's store still. I've bought from them a number of times already and most of the time there are no issues at all. If they sent the right item for replacement, there would have been no issues this time round too. It's just unfortunate that they sent the wrong item but didn't want to own up to their mistake. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## povidlo

Any suggestions for good tips for ST-10s Gold?

They're most comfy naked, but seal is poor. 

I prefer full fuzzies out of stock tips in the box, but they give a bit of an ear ache after a while.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 13, 2020)

povidlo said:


> Any suggestions for good tips for ST-10s Gold?
> 
> They're most comfy naked, but seal is poor.
> 
> I prefer full fuzzies out of stock tips in the box, but they give a bit of an ear ache after a while.



You can use double donut foams for soft fit.


----------



## povidlo

jogawag said:


> You can use double donut foams for soft fit.


Didn't like the donuts on their own. Sorry, are you saying to put the donuts on top of full ones?


----------



## jogawag (Oct 13, 2020)

povidlo said:


> Didn't like the donuts on their own. Sorry, are you saying to put the donuts on top of full ones?



If you put the donuts on top of full ones, bass of ST-10S may sound too much.


----------



## povidlo

jogawag said:


> If you put the donuts on top of full ones, bass of ST-10S may sound too much.


What are double donut foams then?

Pardon the earbud newbie.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 13, 2020)

povidlo said:


> What are double donut foams then?
> 
> Pardon the earbud newbie.



I'm sorry I didn't explain it well enough.
Double donut foams mean setting donut foam over donut foam on one earbud.
If you prefer more bass, you can set the donut foam over full  foam.


----------



## mag8

Can someone please help me find a MMCX CTIA cable?

I would like to use my trusty **** PT15 connected to an Xbox Controller so i can route the audio through it, and also use it as a convenient Skype soundcard when needed.The cable i amcurrently using is apparently the other standard, and when i look online, it's hard to figure out if another cable would be CTIA compatible


----------



## mkz

Any recommendation for original ve monk cable? Is it worth trying to save? Thanks.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32802389296.html?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.1.2d7f6537wSaYjf
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000430565757.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.7ae13c00dpAnTE&mp=1
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000935560120.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.7ae13c00dpAnTE&mp=1


----------



## cenizas (Oct 13, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Congrats! What other flagship buds do you use?


Sorry, missed you message. Saw it while searching to reference your curve haha. I own the Turandot, Maria, Sony MDR-E888 and QJ21, preciously owned a Smabat ST10s and BGVP DX5, sold both but I can probably get in touch with the new owners if they still have them to measure, both were fellow enthusiasts.


----------



## cenizas (Oct 13, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Yes, let me see if I can pull it from my phone via Google drive
> 
> **edit**
> Here you go.






Here's my measurement of the EM5 and I quoted @Sam L's earlier measurement for easy referencing. QC seems pretty consistent and channel matching is excellent. Nice work by fiio. Even straight out of the box they sound pretty awesome, will write more detailed impressions as I burn them in and get more listening on them.


----------



## DBaldock9

mag8 said:


> Can someone please help me find a MMCX CTIA cable?
> 
> I would like to use my trusty **** PT15 connected to an Xbox Controller so i can route the audio through it, and also use it as a convenient Skype soundcard when needed.The cable i amcurrently using is apparently the other standard, and when i look online, it's hard to figure out if another cable would be CTIA compatible



I ordered a pair of adapter plugs from Amazon, that just swap Ring-2 and Sleeve on the 3.5mm TRRS plug. 
. 
They were for being able to connect earphone cables w/Mic to the phone or PC at work, when all of the meetings went "virtual", back in the Spring.


----------



## mag8

DBaldock9 said:


> I ordered a pair of adapter plugs from Amazon, that just swap Ring-2 and Sleeve on the 3.5mm TRRS plug.
> .
> They were for being able to connect earphone cables w/Mic to the phone or PC at work, when all of the meetings went "virtual", back in the Spring.



I rather not add any more weight/length to my current cable


----------



## jogawag (Oct 13, 2020)

mag8 said:


> I rather not add any more weight/length to my current cable


Hi, why are you asking about "MMCX CTIA cables" in this  "Earbuds thread"?
Maybe there's another thread that's better suited for asking it, so you should ask in that thread.


----------



## Sam L

cenizas said:


> Here's my measurement of the EM5 and I quoted @Sam L's earlier measurement for easy referencing. QC seems pretty consistent and channel matching is excellent. Nice work by fiio. Even straight out of the box they sound pretty awesome, will write more detailed impressions as I burn them in and get more listening on them.


Looks to be really close to my measurements. You have the same 13k coupler resonant point too.


----------



## vygas (Oct 13, 2020)

Finally got a second pair of these, around £10 for both of these (PK1 Red Film) HDD-1's .



Spoiler









If anyone else here is from the UK (or is able to get the seller to ship to other parts of Europe) and is interested in a pair, the seller still has a couple pairs up on eBay if you search "Nokia HDD-1", make sure it's not an Italian seller though, he sells a "different version" as one would say. These and the Narcissus 2.0 are great as daily drivers .

EDIT : I forgot to mention but it might be clear from the photo that these do require a re-cable, sure they work off a 2.5mm jack but they benefit from a proper cable.


----------



## rkw

Hahaha, EM5 on AliExpress... you can get it at 10% off, 18% off, 21% off... but they're all $299.99


----------



## theresanarc

Okay I've officially lost my pair of B40s despite them not leaving my small bedroom. I'm sure they'll turn up some year.

Looking for a replacement PK shell earbud, I wouldn't mind going up in price actually. I've so far had the Yuin PK2s (meh), and DIY PK2s (the red ones). They were all pretty damn good but I wanna see if there's any that can take it up a notch and give my Qian69s a run.


----------



## jogawag

theresanarc said:


> Okay I've officially lost my pair of B40s despite them not leaving my small bedroom. I'm sure they'll turn up some year.
> 
> Looking for a replacement PK shell earbud, I wouldn't mind going up in price actually. I've so far had the Yuin PK2s (meh), and DIY PK2s (the red ones). They were all pretty damn good but I wanna see if there's any that can take it up a notch and give my Qian69s a run.



I recommend you Simphonio Dragon 2+ which has clear treble, deep bass and 3-D sound stage.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32861950448.html


----------



## povidlo

rkw said:


> Hahaha, EM5 on AliExpress... you can get it at 10% off, 18% off, 21% off... but they're all $299.99


Best deal I'm seeing is from 'first Fashion store'. Including store coupons, it comes to 8% off at $276 USD. 

Better hurry, the sale ends in less than 48hrs!


----------



## DBaldock9

mag8 said:


> I rather not add any more weight/length to my current cable



CTIA is basically the standard, since most current Android and iPhones use it.
I've bought several of these cables for my various MMCX earbuds, to use with Android phones - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32702459857.html


----------



## Sam L

jogawag said:


> I recommend you Simphonio Dragon 2+ which has clear treble, deep bass and 3-D sound stage.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32861950448.html


Are there less pricey recommendations?


----------



## baskingshark

rkw said:


> Hahaha, EM5 on AliExpress... you can get it at 10% off, 18% off, 21% off... but they're all $299.99







povidlo said:


> Best deal I'm seeing is from 'first Fashion store'. Including store coupons, it comes to 8% off at $276 USD.
> 
> Better hurry, the sale ends in less than 48hrs!




Haha, that is a standard aliexpress trick to give "big" discounts that may not be that far off from the baseline prices.

In fact 11/11 is coming and just watch. A few days prior to the sale, they will jack up the baseline prices, but offer a "big" 70% discount during 11/11. It is a big psychological trick, but on checking the final price, it isn't that different from the baseline.

Probably more important is that 11/11 gives a lot of coupons, and with stacking, that can possibly shave off $10 - 20 USD off an item, on top of the discounted prices, so might be worth waiting to see how good the deal is on 11/11.


----------



## jasswolf

baskingshark said:


> Haha, that is a standard aliexpress trick to give "big" discounts that may not be that far off from the baseline prices.
> 
> In fact 11/11 is coming and just watch. A few days prior to the sale, they will jack up the baseline prices, but offer a "big" 70% discount during 11/11. It is a big psychological trick, but on checking the final price, it isn't that different from the baseline.
> 
> Probably more important is that 11/11 gives a lot of coupons, and with stacking, that can possibly shave off $10 - 20 USD off an item, on top of the discounted prices, so might be worth waiting to see how good the deal is on 11/11.


PriceArchive is your friend here.


----------



## rprodrigues

theresanarc said:


> Okay I've officially lost my pair of B40s despite them not leaving my small bedroom. I'm sure they'll turn up some year.
> 
> Looking for a replacement PK shell earbud, I wouldn't mind going up in price actually. I've so far had the Yuin PK2s (meh), and DIY PK2s (the red ones). They were all pretty damn good but I wanna see if there's any that can take it up a notch and give my Qian69s a run.



Do you mean the red film ones?


----------



## jogawag (Oct 14, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Are there less pricey recommendations?



Then I recommend SHOZY Cygnus.
However, Penon Audio is sold out, so please wait for stock or try purchasing at the following site.
https://shopee.com.my/SHOZY-Cygnus-...diophile-Earbud-Earphone-i.33520534.645030294
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.1.72f95efcZ2Fojo&id=609666208714&ns=1


----------



## baskingshark (Oct 14, 2020)

For our earbud friends here, what is the most basshead earbud you guys have tried (assuming with adequate amping/source)?






My vote goes to the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold. With amping, it has even more subbass quantity/extension than the regular ST10, which was my previous winner of the earbud basshead award.

I know subbass is usually a weakness in most buds and I'm very happy to have the Black Gold as my endgame earbud (basshead here), but am wondering if there's any other earbud with greater bass extension/quantity. Curiosity killed the cat and wallet, yes.


----------



## mag8

jogawag said:


> Hi, why are you asking about "MMCX CTIA cables" in this  "Earbuds thread"?
> Maybe there's another thread that's better suited for asking it, so you should ask in that thread.


Simple.

I need to use it with my current PT15 earbuds


----------



## rkw

mag8 said:


> Can someone please help me find a MMCX CTIA cable?
> 
> I would like to use my trusty **** PT15 connected to an Xbox Controller so i can route the audio through it, and also use it as a convenient Skype soundcard when needed.The cable i amcurrently using is apparently the other standard, and when i look online, it's hard to figure out if another cable would be CTIA compatible


To clarify... are you looking for an MMCX cable with microphone? If it's meant to plug into a 3.5mm jack on a cellphone, it should be CTIA, correct?
https://www.amazon.com/mmcx-cable-mic-Electronics/s?k=mmcx+cable+with+mic


----------



## jogawag (Oct 14, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> For our earbud friends here, what is the most basshead earbud you guys have tried (assuming with adequate amping/source)?
> ...
> My vote goes to the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold. With amping, it has even more subbass quantity/extension than the regular ST10, which was my previous winner of the earbud basshead award.
> 
> I know subbass is usually a weakness in most buds and I'm very happy to have the Black Gold as my endgame earbud (basshead here), but am wondering if there's any other earbud with greater bass extension/quantity. Curiosity killed the cat and wallet, yes.



You may think otherwise, but the most bass-headed earbuds I've tried are the Moondrop CHACONNEs, which are sealed completely with donut foam over silicone ring (SENNHEISER 563605).
If you want to enjoy the deep bass with the CHACONNE, give it a try.

By the way, I only have the original Smabat ST-10 in Smabat products. (And the awful sounding Svara L (115Ω)...)

FR Graph of Liebesleid and CHACONNE


----------



## rprodrigues (Oct 14, 2020)

People,

I have the Nicehck MX500 PK1 version and I didn't like them very much, but I'm intrigued by the amount of posts here about PKs ...

So, what are all that PKx stuff about? 
I've read mixed reviews on them. Are they mainly mid centric buds (sound wise)?

What about the retired beauty Panda PK2s (the white ones) and all the related DIY versions on Taobao? 
Are the Pandas worth it?

In a few word, should I give some Pks a try?
Have they already been overcome by newer stuff?


----------



## vygas (Oct 14, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> People,
> 
> I have the Nicehck MX500 PK1 version and I didn't like them very much, but I'm intrigued by the amount of posts here about PKs ...
> 
> ...


The PK series are essentially mid centric with the sound becoming thinner the higher the number, which is why I really dislike pair of PK3's (slight exaggeration but not far from reality). In my opinion, the Z&W PK2 Panda are definitely a better buy than the PK3. I also have a HDD-1 which is essentially just a PK1 inside a long docomo shell and it's probably one of my, if not the, favourite pairs I own. But, you should definitely should give these styles of bud a shot (maybe slip in a long docomo shell too), even if it's just because of their decreased size being slightly comfier   .


----------



## jogawag (Oct 14, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> People,
> 
> I have the Nicehck MX500 PK1 version and I didn't like them very much, but I'm intrigued by the amount of posts here about PKs ...
> 
> ...



In contrast to the slightly larger MX500 type shell, the PK type shell is popular as smaller type shell.

To understand PK types, you should first read @WoodyLuvr's hard work on the *History of EARBUDS (Key Models Timeline)* post.

*SILVER AGE*
As first PK type shaped earbuds, the "2006 - NTT DoCoMo New Variant (16Ω)" which was an accessory of the NTT DoCoMo mobile phones was quietly released in Japan. This is now known as "docomo earbuds" and their driver is known as "docomo driver".

Next, the "2006 - Yuin PK Series (PK1 150Ω; PK2 16Ω; PK3 32Ω)" were released in China, which was a copy of the "docomo earbuds" shape. The Yuin PK1 150Ω became especially popular and this series is still on sale.
The driver for the Yuin PK1 150Ω is called the red film driver, and it is also sold as the red film DIY PK1.

And a modified version of the Yuin PK1 is still available as "2008 - Yuin OK1 (150Ω)".

Next, a slightly larger version of the PK type "2013 - Sunrise Dragon 2 aka SWD2 (120 ohm)" was released from Sunrize and the anniversary edition is still available.

*MODERN AGE*
The following 2 earbuds with the PK type of "docomo earbuds" shape and with the drivers "docomo driver" were released from Shozy who found that "docomo driver" sounds great. And now they are known as masterpieces and are still sold today, with occasional shortages.
"2016 - Shozy Cygnus (18Ω)"
"2016 - Shozy BK Stardust (16Ω; NTT DoCoMo New Variant driver)"

And the successor to the Sunrise Dragon 2 aka SWD2 has been released and is still available as "2017 - Simphonio (Sunrise) Dragon 2 Plus aka SWD2+ (16Ω)".

Although not in this timeline, the "2017 - NiceHCK DIY PK2" using the "docomo earbuds" or "docomo driver" as parts was released but sold out on Taobao and Aliexpress.
I think that other than this NiceHCK DIY PK2, no other products with the DIY PK2 name use the "docomo driver" after this.

Many kinds of PK type earbuds are released...

Now, "2019 - NiceHCK B40", a slightly larger version of the PK type, is on the market.


----------



## jibberish

baskingshark said:


> For our earbud friends here, what is the most basshead earbud you guys have tried (assuming with adequate amping/source)?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Willsound MK2, for me. They are actually outstanding when it comes to many aspects, including vocals, soundstage and separation. Above all else however, the bass dominates the tuning. Depending on the song, it can either be a lot of fun, or it can overwhelm the  mids.

If it had more sub bass emphasis instead of the mid bass emphasis it has, I think it would be incredible. As is, however, its difficult to use as an all-rounder.

One of these days I need to try one of their other models that has less bass. All the other technical aspects are fantastic, and the cable is very nice as well.


----------



## Nool (Oct 14, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Here's v1.4 for the bk2. Less treble roll off. Lot more detail retrieval now. I'm still listening and evaluating.
> 
> Let me know what you think @Nool


Definitely sounds better without the 10k+ rolloff. Also 4-8k still sounds a tad too hot to me, I'd lower it maybe 1, 1.5db but that's just me. It's only really apparent on sharp drum hits like in this track  (not my favorite tune but works well as a test track), just a tad sibilant imo.

One thing I think is a safe catch-all, you can boost the subbass 2-3db. The poor staging still sort of neuters it but it does add some overall warmth. Not sure how sharp the transition to the mids should be but I figure a boost out to 50hz or so is appropriate. You'll hear an apparant difference starting at 1:25 here 

The mids seem okay, overall it sounds a bit thin to me but I'm not sure how warm/thick it'd sound with slightly less treble and a subbass boost.

Of course all this is my subjective opinion, don't beat yourself up trying to get it perfect, cuz that's probably impossible lol. I'm pretty happy with the AIMP eq I posted earlier, after hearing this I might try lowering the mids another decibel, and refocus where the treble is boosted. Though honestly I don't use my bk2 much, I'm mostly on the Rambo2, I'm surprised how much soundstage can impact things. The EQ you provided for that seems spot on to me, though I'd cut the treble on that by another db or so as well.


----------



## rkw

jogawag said:


> In contrast to the slightly larger MX500 type shell, the PK type shell is popular as smaller type shell.
> 
> To understand PK types, you should first read @WoodyLuvr's hard work on the "*History of EARBUDS (Key Models Timeline)*" post.
> 
> ...


DQSM Turandot (2019) should also be on this list, uniquely a PK style made of metal.


----------



## rprodrigues (Oct 14, 2020)

jogawag said:


> In contrast to the slightly larger MX500 type shell, the PK type shell is popular as smaller type shell.
> 
> To understand PK types, you should first read @WoodyLuvr's hard work on the "*History of EARBUDS (Key Models Timeline)*" post.
> 
> ...



Impressive!
Thank you!

By the way, it is a pity that models from Shozy are that expensive, otherwise I would try them.


----------



## assassin10000

My new silicone rings showed up. IMO way better than the ones Venture Electronics has, as these do not have a hard edge on the backside.

Had to order on taobao, which is kind of a pain.


----------



## baskingshark

assassin10000 said:


> My new silicone rings showed up. IMO way better than the ones Venture Electronics has, as these do not have a hard edge on the backside.
> 
> Had to order on taobao, which is kind of a pain.




Do u have a link for this one?

I see SMABAT selling some of them on their Aliexpress shop, I usually get mine from there, but if there's a cheaper option why not.


----------



## assassin10000

baskingshark said:


> Do u have a link for this one?
> 
> I see SMABAT selling some of them on their Aliexpress shop, I usually get mine from there, but if there's a cheaper option why not.



Posted them here:


assassin10000 said:


> Been listening to these this week, another DIY 14.8mm driver (64Ω N55):
> 
> 
> Work well with my BT20S.
> ...


----------



## baskingshark

So just got the KBEAR Stellar.





Below impressions are with amping, this set is easy to drive, but scales better with amping compared to a low powered smartphone. I know it may seem a bit of an overkill to pair a $3ish USD earbud with an amp that is more expensive haha, but I'm a believer in amping dynamic drivers to get their best potential. Also this is with full foams used.

*OOTB:*
- U shaped set, with a tinge of warmth. 
- Midbass > subbass, in fact it has the usual subbass roll off in most typical earbuds. Subass is neutral and a bit on the anaemic side, midbass is just a tinge north of neutral. Bass is actually pretty fast and tight, with above average texturing. Not one for bassheads, but neutral bass lovers will appreciate this.
- Vocals and mids are probably my favourite part about this earbud. Female vocals are more forward than male ones, without being overly harsh. By and large it is very smooth and non fatiguing for me at moderate volumes. Details in the mids are actually quite good when amped, was surprised in this aspect.
- There's a slight lower treble boost, but this set is not sibilant and harsh in the upper treble. In fact it doesn't have that great treble extension and isn't an airy set.
- Left/right imaging is quite good, instrument separation is pretty well done. Soundstage is average for a earbud, nothing to write home about, but music didn't sound congested on the Stellar.
- Timbre is good like typical DD earbuds for acoustic instruments and vocals.

I think at this price bracket, the competitors would be stuff like Vido, Nameless, Tingo TC200, RY4S+, maybe NiceHCK B40? Will do some burn in and A/B testing against these other buds and report back.
KBEAR Stellar will be a good set for midlovers. Maybe trebleheads and bassheads will need to look elsewhere, but I wouldn't mind stocking up on a few Stellars as Christmas presents. No biggie just skipping a starbucks coffee or two for this, it has great price to performance ratio.


----------



## rprodrigues

assassin10000 said:


> My new silicone rings showed up. IMO way better than the ones Venture Electronics has, as these do not have a hard edge on the backside.
> 
> Had to order on taobao, which is kind of a pain.



Have you already tried the following kind of rings?


----------



## Carrow

golov17 said:


> #Aliexpress US $4.25  15%OFF | Earphone ear pads Rubber ring of headset size 14.5mm
> https://a.aliexpress.ru/_eOyfLd



These are no longer available from that seller - I was just reminded of this today, do you have another source for a set of 14.5mm rubber rings for the MDR-E434? Thanks again


----------



## assassin10000 (Oct 15, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> Have you already tried the following kind of rings?



Yes. Same as the Smabat covers, they muffle the sound IMO.


----------



## DBaldock9

assassin10000 said:


> My new silicone rings showed up. IMO way better than the ones Venture Electronics has, as these do not have a hard edge on the backside.
> 
> Had to order on taobao, which is kind of a pain.





rprodrigues said:


> Have you already tried the following kind of rings?



I don't have the link handy,  but I bought some that are similar to the black ones (being open all the way through), and similar to the white ones (wrapping more securely around the earbuds than the VE rings) - but they also have a "wing", which I had to carefully slice off with an Xacto knife.


----------



## assassin10000 (Oct 15, 2020)

DBaldock9 said:


> I don't have the link handy,  but I bought some that are similar to the black ones (being open all the way through), and similar to the white ones (wrapping more securely around the earbuds than the VE rings) - but they also have a "wing", which I had to carefully slice off with an Xacto knife.



I've got those too. Had them for a month or so but don't use them.
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32810617185.html



If anyone is interested in these or the VE ones, PM me if you're in the U.S.


----------



## rprodrigues

assassin10000 said:


> Yes. Same as the Smabat covers, they muffle the sound IMO.




Have you tried this beautiful workaround?



Spoiler: Spoiler


----------



## jogawag (Oct 17, 2020)

My Moondrop CHACONNE (shell diameter: 16.0mm) and Silicon Ring (SENNHEISER 563605)


----------



## inevitableso

Good day, I posted my take on the KBEAR Stellar 😁 https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kbear-stellar.24668/reviews


----------



## mag8

DBaldock9 said:


> CTIA is basically the standard, since most current Android and iPhones use it.
> I've bought several of these cables for my various MMCX earbuds, to use with Android phones - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32702459857.html



Thanks, ordered!

What I also noticed is that i have a pair of KZ IEMs with mic. The cable does not have the volume up/down buttons, just a single button. That cable works for my purposes, so it is CTIA compliant. 
Perhaps cables with 1 button only are a safer bet.


----------



## dissociativity

I've had an issue with earbuds insofar as innovation goes, it doesn't really seem to exist, tuning is getting more impressive of course, but we've got planar IEMs, electrostatic IEMs, some even try for a ceramic tweeter with good results (and sometimes terrible)
The Smabat M2 Pro impresses with it's DIY modularity, but nothing really excites me like the ceramic tweeter in the 1more E1008 does when it shines, the entire earbud physically vibrates, which is a large part of what creates it's incredibly ethereal soundstage, and very lovely mid and subbass.

Are there any more dual driver earbuds, or earbuds trying something more unique? what's special about them?
Does anyone have any impressions around the musicmaker toneking ty2 dual driver earbud?


----------



## DatOrbitDude

Hello everyone! Are these the same as the DIY EMX500 that some people have mentioned? FENGRU from shopee only has the black earbud variant.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 21, 2020)

DatOrbitDude said:


> Hello everyone! Are these the same as the DIY EMX500 that some people have mentioned? FENGRU from shopee only has the black earbud variant.



The earbuds you've shown are likely the same earbuds I've mentioned below.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15902969

The FENGRU DIY EMX500 has impressive deep  bass and wide soundstage.


----------



## DatOrbitDude

jogawag said:


> The earbuds you've shown are likely the same earbuds I've mentioned below.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15902969
> 
> The FENGRU DIY EMX500 has impressive deep  bass and a very wide soundstage.


Thanks for the clarification! The reason I asked is because I came across a youtube video about the transparent variant of the DIY EMX500 thats is only available on Aliexpress, and in that video the creator said that when they tested the black ones, they sounded bad compared to the transparent one 🤔🤔. I hope someone could clear that up for me but I digress, Im gonna order these anyways hahah! Cheers! 😁😁


----------



## macunaima

hey which one is worth more? the fiio em5 or the chaconne? id love to hear some amazing vocals


----------



## Trzystatrzy

Can you recommend any good and small buds around 40-50 bucks? Ve monk shell is awfully uncomfortable for me


----------



## rprodrigues

Trzystatrzy said:


> Can you recommend any good and small buds around 40-50 bucks? Ve monk shell is awfully uncomfortable for me



Try looking for buds with PK style shells.


----------



## Trzystatrzy (Oct 18, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> Try looking for buds with PK style shells.


are PK2 still good after many newer buds? i had pk3 long time ago, very comf, but little too muddy sound. i have also Monk Lite 120, but they are like Nighthawk - detailet, but soooo muddy...


----------



## rprodrigues

Trzystatrzy said:


> are PK2 still good after many newer buds? i had pk3 long time ago, very comf, but little too muddy sound. i have also Monk Lite 120, but they are like Nighthawk - detailet, but soooo muddy...



Other users may answer your question so since I only own a diy pk1 version from Nicehck and it's not worth it.

Anyway, It is possible to order 'supposed' genuine Pk2 buds on Aliexpress at about $45. 

You may also take a look at ISN Rambo or even Rambo II. Both have small shells. Rambo may be ordered at ~ $50 whereas the version ll may be grabbed at around $70. I own this second version but I do not like them due to their veiled sound and also to fitting issues.


----------



## Sam L

Trzystatrzy said:


> are PK2 still good after many newer buds? i had pk3 long time ago, very comf, but little too muddy sound. i have also Monk Lite 120, but they are like Nighthawk - detailet, but soooo muddy...


Are you on an android 9+ device/phone?


----------



## jogawag

Trzystatrzy said:


> are PK2 still good after many newer buds? i had pk3 long time ago, very comf, but little too muddy sound. i have also Monk Lite 120, but they are like Nighthawk - detailet, but soooo muddy...



 At Penon Audio in AliExpress you can perchase Shozy XB which shell is as small as PK shell. 
The link below is wonderful review of Shozy XB by @jant71.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15532510

Or you can push to $90 and try popular Shozy Cygnus.
However, Cygnus is sold out at Penon Audio, so please wait for stock or try purchasing at the following site.
https://shopee.com.my/SHOZY-Cygnus-...diophile-Earbud-Earphone-i.33520534.645030294
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.1.72f95efcZ2Fojo&id=609666208714&ns=1


----------



## jant71

jogawag said:


> At Penon Audio in AliExpress you can perchase Shozy XB which shell is as small as PK shell.
> The link below is wonderful review of Shozy XB by @jant71.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15532510
> 
> ...



Actually I will update my XB experience since I went back and acquired a Sony A26 MP3. Nice jump up as the A26 and XB synergize so very well. If you go Sony esp. with those new firmwares that up the sound the XB can be really something and a a hell of a deal for the $50. 

Remember the PK2 had nice synergy with the Sony esp. on the older HEAVY preset that was a "V" adding amounts of bass and treble. The two are still similar in that way except the XB needs less treble unless you go to full foams and is the more capable driver. 

Still haven't heard the Cygnus to see how it matches up with the signature myself but it just sounds from the reports it is more toward neutral so might need more warmth/bass added to get to that signature.


----------



## Redvic

Hi can someone give me a comparation about k's lbbs 2020 with st10s black/gold? How would they fare?


----------



## inevitableso

Just finished up reviewing this beauty 😁😁😁
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/bgvp-dx5.24004/reviews


----------



## rprodrigues (Oct 19, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Most of last week I was enjoying these:
> 
> 
> 
> They are my own DIY build, using 120Ω beryllium drivers. Since they are higher impedance / lower sensitivity, they do require a bit more power than most cellphones provide.



Are they from this listing https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001271576204.html, right?

Do they lack bass?


----------



## assassin10000 (Oct 19, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> Are they from this listing https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001271576204.html, right?
> 
> Do they lack bass?




Yep, that is the listing for those.

I swapped them into different covers (the stainless mesh style) and obviously modified the housings by removing the stem and added MMCX connectors.

They have the typical bass roll off of earbuds, starting from around 60-80hz. Not terribly rolled off but not the best quantity I've heard either.



If you want good sub-bass extension and don't mind treble a step back, the 40Ω Ti drivers would be better.
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4001146843093.html


----------



## rprodrigues (Oct 19, 2020)

@assassin10000

Thank you.

Inspired by your work on DIY Pk-based buds, I will try to assembly a diy pk for me.

According to some of your posts, the red film drivers are the ones that most resemble the original drivers, so I might order them besides some cheaper ones.

Was it you who linked true 14.8mm pk shells on Aliexpress? I've read a post linking them but I can't find the it again.

Have you noticed any SQ improvement with your diy MMCX  buds regarding cables?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Reposting the important parts of my post here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rik...-list-statistics.925319/page-34#post-15928727
(about my updated review scores)

*EARBUDS*:* I have to apologize for my review of these buds, as they are not as good as I though back then when I didn’t have many buds. I sincerely apologize to anyone that got them based on my review and were disappointed.

Moondrop Shiroyuki*: From 3.5/5 to 3/5. Surpassed in every way by the NiceHCK DIY MX500 that is also cheaper.

*Moondrop Nameless*: From 4.5/5 to 4/5. Surpassed in almost every way (sound) by the NiceHCK DIY MX500 that is also cheaper. But the build and cable quality on the Nameless is very good.

*Moondrop VX Classic*: From 4.5/5 to 3.5/5. Surpassed by the NiceHCK DIY MX500 that is much cheaper, while the K´s Bell-LB is on a similar SQ (better technicalities in the VX classic) and has similar shape while it is cheaper.

*Qigom S130*: From 4.5/5 to 4/5. Surpassed by the Yincrow X6, cleaner and more fun with a MUCH better bass. Although technicalities on the S130 is better than the X6 and is still very good, but the price of the S130 makes it drop in score.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 20, 2020)

macunaima said:


> hey which one is worth more? the fiio em5 or the chaconne? id love to hear some amazing vocals



Hi, sorry I'm late, but I have only the Moondrop Chaconne.
First, the Chacnne is a bit heavy, but it's fine for listening at home.
Then, in terms of sound, I think the Chaconne is suited for female vocals, as it has warm clarity in the mid and treble and better detailed separation of sound.
If you want to hear enough bass, you can use a silicone ring such as the "SENNHEISER 563605" to get a good seal.
Chaconne's review can be found at:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/moondrop-chaconne.24110/

As for the Fiio EM5, I read the following review says it's good at bass, but you'll have to read it for yourself.
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/fiio-em5.24708/

I hope this is helpful.


----------



## silverre

Hi is anyone experiencing the smabat st10s shocking your ears when using with anything connected to a power. 
I was using it when charging my se100 and literally got shocked. this was the same when plugging it into my cavalli tube hybrid.. I do see some people using it with desktop amps so just checking if anyone else has experiend the same as me.


----------



## baskingshark

silverre said:


> Hi is anyone experiencing the smabat st10s shocking your ears when using with anything connected to a power.
> I was using it when charging my se100 and literally got shocked. this was the same when plugging it into my cavalli tube hybrid.. I do see some people using it with desktop amps so just checking if anyone else has experiend the same as me.



I have tried the black gold st10s on a few desktop amps to phones to dongles to daps. Never got shocked before. But i never charge and use my source at the same time.

I think one possibility might have to do with u charging and using the source at the same time. Is that safe for equipment in general?


----------



## rprodrigues

baskingshark said:


> ... Is that safe for equipment in general?



Not at all.
He must avoid it.


----------



## DBaldock9

baskingshark said:


> I have tried the black gold st10s on a few desktop amps to phones to dongles to daps. Never got shocked before. But i never charge and use my source at the same time.
> 
> I think one possibility might have to do with u charging and using the source at the same time. Is that safe for equipment in general?





rprodrigues said:


> Not at all.
> He must avoid it.



If you are using a DAP as a USB DAC, you can't actually avoid listening to it while it's charging - unless it has separate data & charge ports.


----------



## baskingshark

DBaldock9 said:


> If you are using a DAP as a USB DAC, you can't actually avoid listening to it while it's charging - unless it has separate data & charge ports.



Yeah i guess if it is used as a USB DAC that's true, but for other general uses, eg just using a DAP as a DAP, or using a portable amp, will charging and listening to music at the same time be risky? I'm not an expert in electronics, so just wondering.


----------



## rprodrigues

DBaldock9 said:


> If you are using a DAP as a USB DAC, you can't actually avoid listening to it while it's charging - unless it has separate data & charge ports.



You are right.

I thought he was using smartphones but he said the problem happens "with anything connected to a power".





baskingshark said:


> Yeah i guess if it is used as a USB DAC that's true, but for other general uses, eg just using a DAP as a DAP, or using a portable amp, will charging and listening to music at the same time be risky? I'm not an expert in electronics, so just wondering.



Usually, the risks are related to the connection to an outlet.


----------



## pr0b3r

Haven't posted for a long time. I think I'm still okay with my Korven DIY earbuds (by Kris Sumabat) paired with a 5.5G iPod Classic (with 256GB mSATA drive). That is until I get a Blur earbuds by Mr. Wong.


----------



## dissociativity (Oct 21, 2020)

So I've taken an interest in dual driver earbuds after trying and loving my 1more e1008 once more, how are the toneking ty2?
Are there any other dual driver earbuds I should know about?
How do they compare to other earbuds?

Is is there another place to find Rose dual driver eabuds? Only the Maria seems to be available and it's a pricier flagship, though I have no doubt it's worth the spend with the 20mm driver and such.

In other news I just got the jcally/smabat ep01, will wait a little to give impressions, thus far they seem bright and compareable to the moondrop nameless, anecdotally I think the nameless have a bit better imaging and resolution.

I'm also curious if the moondrop vx classic are a worthwhile spend as an upgrade to the nameless, how much better are they?

my next slightly pricier earbud purchase will likely be the smabat m2 pro DIY kit since I've got this lovely soldering iron to play with.


----------



## silverre

baskingshark said:


> I have tried the black gold st10s on a few desktop amps to phones to dongles to daps. Never got shocked before. But i never charge and use my source at the same time.
> 
> I think one possibility might have to do with u charging and using the source at the same time. Is that safe for equipment in general?



The se100 when connected to the CTH will also shock my ears when using them. the CTH draws power from the power outlet cause its a desktop amp. my other non chifi iems do not have these issue.

but i can use them with my portable amps like the a100 with no issues when not connected to a power outlet though..


----------



## baskingshark

silverre said:


> The se100 when connected to the CTH will also shock my ears when using them. the CTH draws power from the power outlet cause its a desktop amp. my other non chifi iems do not have these issue.
> 
> but i can use them with my portable amps like the a100 with no issues when not connected to a power outlet though..



Have u tried a different cable? I have encountered getting shocked once on another IEM that had a cable with some wonky soldering/grounding possibly. I swapped it out for an aftermarket cable and no more shocks. But I think some of the others here have to advise though, I'm not an expert in electronics.


----------



## silverre

baskingshark said:


> Have u tried a different cable? I have encountered getting shocked once on another IEM that had a cable with some wonky soldering/grounding possibly. I swapped it out for an aftermarket cable and no more shocks. But I think some of the others here have to advise though, I'm not an expert in electronics.



I see. I have only tried another chifi cable i bought off aliexpress. I dont have much mmcx headphones cos its mmcx lol. 
let me see if i can grab a cheap EA cable locally..

Thanks for all your help.


----------



## rprodrigues (Oct 22, 2020)

Nicehck EB2 and KBEar Stellar here.
What a great surprise they are!

EB2, due to their size, are amazing for my small ears. Sound wise, they are very good compared to my current set of earbuds. Stellar is a fun set and very impressive regarding its price point.

Thank you everyone for suggesting EB2.


----------



## tamtrum

The yincrow x6 seriously impresses me. For $10 from Aliexpress it punches way above its belt. The low end response that you get from it is satisfying if you’re into EDM. Picture here is the Yincrow X6 hooked up to the Bryston BHA-1 for maximum slam (for schiits and giggles). Normally I have the yincrows powered by the Apple dongle but decided it’ll be fun to try the Yincrows on a $2K headphone amp.


----------



## RikudouGoku

tamtrum said:


> The yincrow x6 seriously impresses me. For $10 from Aliexpress it punches way above its belt. The low end response that you get from it is satisfying if you’re into EDM. Picture here is the Yincrow X6 hooked up to the Bryston BHA-1 for maximum slam (for schiits and giggles). Normally I have the yincrows powered by the Apple dongle but decided it’ll be fun to try the Yincrows on a $2K headphone amp.


Makes you wonder if the Yincrow RW-9 really is better than the X6. But I will get it on 11/11 so we shall see.


----------



## ImFilippo

Hi guys, which earbuds do you recommend under 20$?


----------



## rprodrigues

ImFilippo said:


> Hi guys, which earbuds do you recommend under 20$?



Do you have any prefered sound signature? 
If not, try to get a Nicehck DIY MX500. However, if you prefer a more neutral signature, maybe the Nicehck EB2.


----------



## ImFilippo

rprodrigues said:


> Do you have any prefered sound signature?
> If not, try to get a Nicehck DIY MX500. However, if you prefer a more neutral signature, maybe the Nicehck EB2.


i like the Harman target; my daily IEM are the moondrop starfields, I would like earbuds with a similar target if they exist


----------



## rprodrigues

ImFilippo said:


> i like the Harman target; my daily IEM are the moondrop starfields, I would like earbuds with a similar target if they exist



Unfortunately, I haven't auditioned such iem, so I can't suggest a similar set of earbuds.

People here may help you. Just wait a little bit more...


----------



## ImFilippo

Yeah no problem. On aliexpress i have found also these earbuds but the ones you recommended to me are even better?:

*Venture Electronics VE Monk Plus *
*Moondrop ShiroYuki*
*Moondrop Nameless*


----------



## RikudouGoku

ImFilippo said:


> Yeah no problem. On aliexpress i have found also these earbuds but the ones you recommended to me are even better?:
> 
> *Venture Electronics VE Monk Plus *
> *Moondrop ShiroYuki*
> *Moondrop Nameless*


I got them all but dont rec them.

NiceHCK DIY MX500: airy and huge soundstage
NiceHCK ME80: Tonality and timbre are excellent
Yincrow X6: Most similar to iems in bass and most "complete" package (bass, mids and treble are all present).

Those are much better.


----------



## rprodrigues

@RikudouGoku 

NiceHCK ME80 are gone.


----------



## RikudouGoku

rprodrigues said:


> @RikudouGoku
> 
> NiceHCK ME80 are gone.


You can get them from amazon japan:
https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/gp/product/B07TC33XB3


----------



## macunaima

silverre said:


> Hi is anyone experiencing the smabat st10s shocking your ears when using with anything connected to a power.
> I was using it when charging my se100 and literally got shocked. this was the same when plugging it into my cavalli tube hybrid.. I do see some people using it with desktop amps so just checking if anyone else has experiend the same as me.


----------



## macunaima

Hey i have a moondrop nameless for some time now i love them but i hate like one thing about them, in congested music theyre soooo bad , in technicallities in general id say, the sound is soft but they lack that sparkle my  st-10's have, i want to make a driver swap on them, is it worth? can you guys recommend me a driver? I have some experience in eletronics


----------



## furyossa

ImFilippo said:


> Yeah no problem. On aliexpress i have found also these earbuds but the ones you recommended to me are even better?:
> 
> *Venture Electronics VE Monk Plus *
> *Moondrop ShiroYuki*
> *Moondrop Nameless*


This would be my choice below $30 which I would recommend:

*ShoonTH ESEP-01BL* (fast bass, forward mids, smooth treble, wide soundstage with above-average imaging). This is my modded version 
This and other more expensive models of this brand you can find also here.

*HE150* (great sub-bass and very spacious sound) I don't know is this original version. It looks the same, shell and cable. It has a 150ohm.
The original version is currently out of stock on Penon Audio Store. Also, there is a Pro version but this MX500 version sounds better IMHO.

*RY4S Plus version* (probably the best "energetic" sound U can find for this money + mmcx)


----------



## jasswolf

ImFilippo said:


> i like the Harman target; my daily IEM are the moondrop starfields, I would like earbuds with a similar target if they exist





rprodrigues said:


> Unfortunately, I haven't auditioned such iem, so I can't suggest a similar set of earbuds.
> 
> People here may help you. Just wait a little bit more...


As someone with the Starfield and the latest NiceHCK MX500, I can say that while they aren't identical, you won't be disappointed in having the MX500.

Timbre is excellent and they have very little grain and distortion despite the limitations of an earbud, but decent amplification cleans this up substantially. So solid out of a phone, but better out of proper gear. If I'm being picky, there are some issues in the middle-band of the mid-range (aforementioned grain), but overall they are very pretty and have fantastic presentation for the price.

You will not be unhappy with these in the slightest.


----------



## dissociativity

Can't believe I missed out on Rose Mojito, Masya and Masya pro.
Anyone have any of these they'd be willing to part with?
The Maria, which still has stock sounds lovely, but that incredibly high flagship price isn't terribly affordable.


----------



## ImFilippo

Thank you all for the advice , i think i will opt for these: *NICEHCK MX500*


----------



## rprodrigues

ImFilippo said:


> Thank you all for the advice , i think i will opt for these: *NICEHCK MX500*



Here a review on them thanks to @RikudouGoku 
Be aware that there are more than a version for them.


----------



## RikudouGoku

ImFilippo said:


> Thank you all for the advice , i think i will opt for these: *NICEHCK MX500*


I got the "black silver mx500", not sure if the other colors are the same sound wise but the PK1 is different so be sure to pick the right one.


----------



## ImFilippo

RikudouGoku said:


> I got the "black silver mx500", not sure if the other colors are the same sound wise but the PK1 is different so be sure to pick the right one.


thanks a lot, i was about to make the mistake and buy the pk1 🙄


----------



## vygas (Oct 23, 2020)

Box'o'buds has arrived!



Spoiler









Here's what I got in the box : Nicehck ME80, K's 64ohm, DIY MX760's, Dasetn MC5, Tingo TG-38s, Edifier H180 and the Awei ES10. Pretty nice selection of stuff, thanks again @rymd for making this possible!


----------



## RikudouGoku

vygas said:


> Box'o'buds has arrived!
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


What you get?


----------



## vygas

RikudouGoku said:


> What you get?


I updated the post so it should say what I got in the box .


----------



## waynes world

RikudouGoku said:


> I got the "black silver mx500", not sure if the other colors are the same sound wise but the PK1 is different so be sure to pick the right one.



You say "but the PK1 is different so be sure to pick the right one". Strange that they all say "PK1" in the description, so yes, you do have to be careful.

Anyway, all of this MX500 talk forced me to buy a pair. To be safe, I got the "black silver" as well.


----------



## rprodrigues

@waynes world
I have the pk1 version. Well, unless I got a faulty pair, they sound bad.


----------



## furyossa

vygas said:


> Box'o'buds has arrived!
> Here's what I got in the box : Nicehck ME80, K's 64ohm, DIY MX760's, Dasetn MC5, Tingo TG-38s, Edifier H180 and the Awei ES10. Pretty nice selection of stuff, thanks again @rymd for making this possible!


My favorite from that pack is of course Tingo TG-38s. One of my favorite earbuds. Need some burn-in time but after that ... you will enjoy it. 
Can be sibilant on some songs but rarely, the sub-bass and bass are tuned beautifully, and highs are not offensive, only I can tell ... nice details.
MX500 silver shell is not cheap plastic but some kind of aluminum-plastic alloy, only on the original model. Can you do a close-up?


----------



## RikudouGoku

rprodrigues said:


> @waynes world
> I have the pk1 version. Well, unless I got a faulty pair, they sound bad.


Since it does have a different shell shape, it will sound different from the mx500 version.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Since it does have a different shell shape, it will sound different from the mx500 version.


Yup PK1 is a smaller shell for 14.8mm drivers. It has good ergonomics so it fits better in the ear compared to MX500 which is for 15.4mm drivers.


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Yup PK1 is a smaller shell for 14.8mm drivers. It has good ergonomics so it fits better in the ear compared to MX500 which is for 15.4mm drivers.


NiceHCK really should separate their listing for the MX500 and the PK1.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> NiceHCK really should separate their listing for the MX500 and the PK1.


Sennheiser (MX500) and YUIN (PK) have set a standard for earbud shells.
Anyone who uses them can rarely go wrong when it comes to ergonomics and interior design for airflow
Also, we can count DP100 and Docomo shells in this group. For me, Docomo is the most comfortable and provides the best sealing.
You’ve probably noticed yourself that many manufacturers rarely stick to the same shell design for new models, which I don’t like.
Some models deserve to be kept with possible small changes. On the other hand, you can often see some strange shell shapes that, 
no matter how good they sound, destroy the overall impression, and experience with poor comfort.


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Sennheiser (MX500) and YUIN (PK) have set a standard for earbud shells.
> Anyone who uses them can rarely go wrong when it comes to ergonomics and interior design for airflow
> Also, we can count DP100 and Docomo shells in this group. For me, Docomo is the most comfortable and provides the best sealing.
> You’ve probably noticed yourself that many manufacturers rarely stick to the same shell design for new models, which I don’t like.
> ...


yeah, dont change it if it works should be applied more.

But I do think having more shell types will make it so that more people can get a good fit, as everyone has different ears.
(for me the mx500 shape fits the best)


----------



## Sam L

Hey everyone, haven't been posting as much lately. I have to set up an old laptop with a light dev environment in order to continue generating more compensation files for earbuds. I hope to get that up and running in the next couple days.

Have a great weekend!


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> yeah, dont change it if it works should be applied more.
> 
> But I do think having more shell types will make it so that more people can get a good fit, as everyone has different ears.
> (for me the mx500 shape fits the best)


Yes, I agree with you, but obviously, it is rare for a good model to be repeated again.
Has anyone tried these models. 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33037097624.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000342881967.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000596071123.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32862696536.html

Audio Technica black shell looks very cool. Beautiful, simplistic, and clean design.
I like this T-Music V5, it can be seen that they made an effort to improve quality through each subsequent version


----------



## vygas

furyossa said:


> Yes, I agree with you, but obviously, it is rare for a good model to be repeated again.
> Has anyone tried these models.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33037097624.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000342881967.html
> ...


I was actually eyeing some of the newer T-Music buds, especially their 32 ohm and 130ohm beryllium driver models. Might try order a couple pairs from them on 11.11 .


----------



## furyossa

vygas said:


> I was actually eyeing some of the newer T-Music buds, especially their 32 ohm and 130ohm beryllium driver models. Might try order a couple pairs from them on 11.11 .


Cool. 130ohm "Bery" is probably in the top 5 list of DIY drivers. That is also the reason why I build 3 different versions


----------



## waynes world

Sam L said:


> Hey everyone, haven't been posting as much lately. I have to set up an old laptop with a light dev environment in order to continue generating more compensation files for earbuds. I hope to get that up and running in the next couple days.
> 
> Have a great weekend!



Was wondering where you've been! Hurry up an get some files done up for all of my earbuds, will ya? 

 You might as well start with the RW9's, followed by the Kube V1, I'll let you know which others you should work on when you've got those ones done


----------



## waynes world

RikudouGoku said:


> NiceHCK really should separate their listing for the MX500 and the PK1.



Btw, I have the 2017 MX500's: AK New Arrival DIY MX500 In-ear Earphones

One of the drivers rattles (and no amount of sucking will fix it lol), so I haven't listened to them in a while. But I thought they were really great for the price.

After I got them, I was wondering how they compared to the "2017 New NICEHCK DIY MX500 PK1 Earbuds"

And now, I am wondering how they will compare to the  the "2019 New NICEHCK DIY MX500 PK1 Earbuds" lol

If they sound as good as my initial ones, then I'll be happy enough. But I suspect they will be even better (ie more refined).


----------



## mochill

New toneking buds looks good


----------



## golov17

mochill said:


> New toneking buds looks good


This?


----------



## mochill

golov17 said:


> This?


Yes bro


----------



## 1Q84

Hi @antdroid , I remember you also like the galaxy buds, which has good timbre. Do the yincrow x6 have better resolution and technicalities than them? Planning to get them on 11.11. Thanks


----------



## antdroid

1Q84 said:


> Hi @antdroid , I remember you also like the galaxy buds, which has good timbre. Do the yincrow x6 have better resolution and technicalities than them? Planning to get them on 11.11. Thanks



comparable but i think soundstage is bigger because earbuds


----------



## jogawag

mochill said:


> New toneking buds looks good



This?
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=628571711912


----------



## povidlo

NiceHCK store listing on AE:

TONEKING Dendroaspis Viridis Metal HIFI Earbud Three Diaphragm Dynamic Physical Frequency Division Earphone MMCX Cable Headset
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mrshJjB


----------



## furyossa

povidlo said:


> NiceHCK store listing on AE:
> 
> TONEKING Dendroaspis Viridis Metal HIFI Earbud Three Diaphragm Dynamic Physical Frequency Division Earphone MMCX Cable Headset
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mrshJjB


If I understood correctly, TONEKING D.V. uses a hybrid diaphragm driver (3 layers) where "PU" is used for Low frequencies, PEEK for mids, and Ti (Titanium) for highs?


----------



## Sam L

waynes world said:


> Was wondering where you've been! Hurry up an get some files done up for all of my earbuds, will ya?
> 
> You might as well start with the RW9's, followed by the Kube V1, I'll let you know which others you should work on when you've got those ones done


I'll definitely get the rw9 file together for you! 

Don't have the kube v1. I'll look around to pick that up for the 11/11 sale. Is it a currently produced buzd? 

I think v1.4 has been good. I'll most likely make a version with more sub bass and bass as wel and offer two compensation files from now on. They'll eventually all be avail on my blog site when I get that up and running.


----------



## dissociativity

Are there any other PK shell earbuds I should try? I'm enjoying the nicehck b40 immensely for listening in bed and sleeping, at low volumes, very cozy, sound profile is rather mellow, but with more subbass than I've heard on any other earbud thus far.
Is the Yuin PK2 and PK1 originals still worth the cost? I've heard the DIY versions that are cheaper don't sound as good.

I ordered the smabat m2 pro diy stuff, with the black gold driver, I considered the ST10s, but given I can try the fancy black gold driver for cheaper than the base st-10s, I bit the bullet there.
Will give impressions when it eventually arrives.

Supposedly my yincrow RW-100 and Memt T6 are in the country, as are the other jcally/smabat cheaper bud, the jc10, so I'll give impressions of those when they arrive, I have a feeling the jc10 will be far better than the ec01

The Jcally/Smabat EC01 are okay, they distort at high volumes however and are overall bright, with decent enough tuning, with foams there's a bit of midbass so it's not aneamic, I think the shell would be great for small ears, smaller than the PK shell, but I think I'll put a better driver in them in future so they sound better, as the current one just feels pretty mediocre to me.
There's definitely far better value buds around for the money, even if the EC01 come with a lovely soft earbud case, and have a rather nice feeling cable, feel and look reasonably premium.


----------



## mochill

Just ordered the new toneking buds


----------



## dissociativity

Got the Jcally/Smabat JC10, and while the 'female poison' part may mean they're bright, first impressions are actually quite positive.
Nicer cable than the ep01, doesn't distort at full volume on my xiaomi mi max 3 (which has quite good stock audio output I may add) like the ep01 did, overall sounds higher resolution.

As a fun note, both jcally buds come with a lovely pleather case with a little loop for keychains and such, very high quality foamies, and some kind of ear clip attachment to help them stay on which I haven't tried.

I got the non-mmcx version, if these improve after the burn-in they may very well be worth paying the extra for mmcx. 
The build and wire quality I'd say is a little worse than say, the moondrop nameless or nicehck me80, I seem to have misplaced (and also dislike the me80), but I'll compare them to the moondrop nameless later, which have quite good resolution with a similarly bright tuning.

I'm going to give them a burn in with some pink, then white noise for a while, I find 6 hours or so is plenty to make a reasonable improvement, where longer may steadily change it up when burn-in does actually change anything.

I also recieved the new cardboard/plastic boxed qian 69 in the mail today, those I'll give some burn-in before trying too, initial impressions say they're worse than my old qian 69 that came in a little metal tin, but we shall see if that's just a combination of foamies and long-term burn-in through use.


----------



## davjac84

mochill said:


> Just ordered the new toneking buds


Really looking foreward to your impressions. I love Toneking! These new look cool, but I worry about comfort 😛


----------



## dissociativity (Oct 26, 2020)

after some white noise burn-in at full volume and some full foamies the new qian69 improved a lot, I'll compare em with my old set tomorrow after some more burn-in for a fairer comparison.

Need to be sure they're the same or at least very similar drivers to the ones that came in the aluminium tin.
I plan on re-cabling the qian 69, as I feel it's pretty mediocre cable is hindering it's wonderful sound, anyone got any impressions on that front?


----------



## dissociativity (Oct 26, 2020)

okay, the jcally jc10 are warmer than the moondrop nameless, but lower fidelity, both the subbass and midbass is about as average as the moondrop nameless, but with lower resolution, the mids are more forward and warm, and the treble isn't actually as prevelant.

In hindsight I wouldn't call them particularly bright, brighter than the nicehck b40? of course, qian69? that too, but these are more mid-heavy buds.
I find rock/metal more enjoyable on these than the nameless, even if the nameless sound 'better' and certainly has more fidelity.
The BK2 would probably still be the better choice for a bud with MMCX, but if buying without MMCX for cheaper it feels decent enough value unlike the EC01 which was fairly mediocre quality and distorted easily.

What makes this bud actually worthwhile (at least without paying a premium for the mmcx), is the cable quality, which feels quite high, not BK2 high, but certainly above it's price high, the bud is metal, but the plastic strain relief, while feeling like it has a quality flexible plastic as material, seems to have small aesthetic problems that make it feel a little lower quality.
The included nice pleather bag, ear hooks, and quite high quality feeling foamies (sadly only one pair of full foamies) also are a plus.

In this price range I'd still buy the nicehck B40 or the qian 69 personally, even if I dislike the qian's cable, nothing has beat it's tuning thus far for me other than the b40 when I need the extra bass and mellow sound.


----------



## rprodrigues (Oct 26, 2020)

dissociativity said:


> ...
> Is the Yuin PK2 and PK1 originals still worth the cost?
> ...



Same question here...
There are still some  (supposed) genuine  Pk2 on Aliexpress.

I already have a DIY PK2 from Fengru on its way to me but I'd like to taste the genuine one.


----------



## axhng (Oct 26, 2020)

Bought these for fun since my Jietu EMX500 MMCX was just rotting away with channel imbalance. So thought I could swap the drivers.
https://shopee.sg/product/168051912/2752145415

Wasn't expecting much, but they sound surprisingly good. Reminds me of the ME80, so still balanced sounding overall, just with a slightly smoother sound and a bit less upper mids and treble. Still good technicalities and details. Tonality is pretty nice too. I'm using them with full foams, and since the driver itself already has a layer of inner foam attached, i didn't use the extra foam they provided. 4.90 SGD for this is a steal if you are willing to DIY a little (since all you need is another DIY 3.5mm cable which is dirt cheap).


----------



## cappuchino

Hey guys! Need some help. Asked in the DIY Earbuds thread but I don't think its that active...

So...

Would this fit in an MX500 shell?



---

Here's my post on the DIY thread: HELP


----------



## assassin10000

dissociativity said:


> Are there any other PK shell earbuds I should try?
> 
> Is the Yuin PK2 and PK1 originals still worth the cost? I've heard the DIY versions that are cheaper don't sound as good.





rprodrigues said:


> Same question here...
> There are still some  (supposed) genuine  Pk2 on Aliexpress.
> 
> I already have a DIY PK2 from Fengru on its way to me but I'd like to taste the genuine one.



Not sure if they are still available but the pk16 or pk32 from willsound. There were a few from chitty on AliExpress but looks like they've transitioned most to a different and possibly poorer sounding shell.

The majority of the DIY PK1/PK2 ones just use the name to be more relevant when searching. 

There are a few DIY PK1 150Ω redfilm ones that use the best DIY driver I've heard. It's pretty much one of my favorite drivers. They go for around $50-60 on AE.



I had an original Yuin PK2 and it was quite good. Not top tier but maybe lower to middle of the pack in the 2nd tier out of 5. 

They have a different driver now afaik, I'm not sure how the new one sounds. There was a thread about it a while ago, I'm sure it can be found with a search.


The Yuin PK1 may also be very good or excellent but I haven't heard it.


----------



## vygas (Oct 26, 2020)

dissociativity said:


> Are there any other PK shell earbuds I should try? I'm enjoying the nicehck b40 immensely for listening in bed and sleeping, at low volumes, very cozy, sound profile is rather mellow, but with more subbass than I've heard on any other earbud thus far.
> Is the Yuin PK2 and PK1 originals still worth the cost? I've heard the DIY versions that are cheaper don't sound as good.
> 
> I ordered the smabat m2 pro diy stuff, with the black gold driver, I considered the ST10s, but given I can try the fancy black gold driver for cheaper than the base st-10s, I bit the bullet there.
> ...





assassin10000 said:


> Not sure if they are still available but the pk16 or pk32 from willsound. There were a few from chitty on AliExpress but looks like they've transitioned most to a different and possibly poorer sounding shell.
> 
> The majority of the DIY PK1/PK2 ones just use the name to be more relevant when searching.
> 
> ...


The newer PK3 was terrible, I own a newer PK3 which also has a new driver afaik and they are not worth it at all. I did re-cable it but it just polished a turd instead of making it shine. I assume the PK2 also has a similar story going from a good driver to a bad one so it's not worth it. If I were to recommend getting some of the PK type buds then I'd just go for the Nokia buds that Yuin sourced their drivers from (HS-23, HDD-1 and (maybe) the HDD-2) and just re-cable them.


----------



## mochill

davjac84 said:


> Really looking foreward to your impressions. I love Toneking! These new look cool, but I worry about comfort 😛


Will be my first toneking


----------



## davjac84

mochill said:


> Will be my first toneking


Omg, and the first one you try is this "strange" and big bud 🤪 hopefully they are their best buds yet 👌


----------



## lackOfInspiration (Oct 26, 2020)

Hello there,
I've been following this thread quietly for a moment now, while experimenting with earbuds on my own. I learned a lot reding about your journey guys so thank you very much (especially @assassin10000  and @Sam L and all of you who attempted to produce easy to read measurments)

I just came across this post which I found very interesting:



Sam L said:


> Ok, I mentioned in my previous post how the BK2 graph highlights some things about earbuds that seem really confusing to understand in relation to IEMs and headphones.
> 
> Context here
> 
> ...



I have some thoughts on the matter that I think are worth sharing, as the questions you ask here have been bothering me for quite some time now.

The more I spend time with earbuds the more I'm convinced that earbuds should be tuned closer to IEMs, not much like Headphone (which seems to be the standard way of doing). Amoung all the earbuds I have (Ty 32Ohm, Auglamour RX1, Philips SHE3800, VE Monk +, VIdos (White and blue), Moondrop Shiroyuki & Nameless, Headroom MS16), solely ONE managed to sound tonally ok (TY 32Ohm). I found all the others to be strangely off, all in the same way, and so I started to investigate their frequency response.

The detail of the less than scientific method I ran through:


Spoiler: methodology



*1. Finding measurments and interprete them: *
Normally this not that hard, as most popular headphones and IEMs are very comonly measured by reviewers, via well-thought standardized method and instruments (GRAS for headphone, 711 couplers for IEMs etc..). The way IEMs and Headphones should be measured are widely discussed, you can easely find the pieces of information you need to understand measurments. Websites like Rtings, ScienceAudioReview, DIYAudioHeaven and many others are goldmines. But when it comes to cheap earbuds, I found myself with almost nothing to work with, except very wierd looking 711 measurments, like those found on Hiendportable and Audiobudget. I had a hard time extracting anything from those. My guess here was that apart from the massive 0-600khz shelf boost steming from the perfect seal, they were pretty good at showing the intrinsic earbud tuning if you forget the 7k peak of the coupler (In real life, there is of course your auditory canal resonating, but probably very very differently, we don't know yet..). In other words it gives me the transfere founction of the earbud alone in the 1k-7k region

*2. Frequency sweeps are my best friends: correlate measurments with what I actually hear.*
So I decided to rely on my ears and  I spent hours and hours scanning my collection through frequency sweeps, trying to build an EQ settings that make me percieve every frequency equally loud. Obviously this requires a very precise volume matching, because as you noticed, a sort of Fletcher countour kicks in to make my life harder. Here is a dirty quick hand drawn compilation of what I found. I apologize for this terrible results presentation, but might still be easier to read than the filters values 
Why do I EQ to a percieved flat? Because the EQ profile I get is just the opposite of the system [earbud + my ear + my auditory canal] transfere fonction. 711 type measurments allow me to approximately remove the earbud from the equation in the focused region (1-7k), so I'm left with my ear and canal transfere fonctions, which tell me how the earbud is interacting with my anatomy. We have those two reference cases to interprete this foounction:
- If it's flat with a sharp 7k spike, it's like IEMs, and therefore should be tuned alike (compensation for the lack of pinnea interaction in the forms of a massiv 3k mountain gently slopes down towards high frequencies)
- If it raughly ressembles the Head Related Founction in diffuse field, it means it's closer to headphones, and so should be tuned like them.
It's reasonable to think that we will fall in-between, just the fact that I had to consider the equal loudness contour means there is some sort of outer ear interaction.
I also looked at this this paper, asuming that earbuds interact with the inner part of the concha (cavum concha), I thought it could give me an idea of what to expect (it know it is naif, but my hole approach is utterly naïve...). Very interesting read if you want to dig the subject.
In the end this is what I found

Massive 5khz peak which can be modelized by a [+8dB @5000hz Q=3.0] filter
Important 9khz Narrow peak which a [+6 dB @900h0z Q=4.5] filter modelizes fairly enough
small hill which slightly elevates the 2-6khz zone like a [+2.5db @4000hz Q=0.6] would.




*3. Conclusion

Earbuds do interact with outer ear *(probably mainly concha) in a significant manner. *But you still need important compensation *to match HRTF in diffuse field/studio conditions. As far as my ears are concerned, A massive boost at 3k and a narrow one att 7k are needed. *Basically a standard Harman-like IEM tuning with a compensation for what I assume is concha resonance (deep 5k notch) would suit perfectly*. TY 32Ohm is close to deliver such a tuning, with an elevated 2-7k zone and important 2.5K peak on the top of that. Far from perfect but fair enough. MS16 does something similar but still sounds bloated to me. Though now I can understand why it sounds open and realistic to some..
Bottom line is good earbuds should measure on 711 type couplers like smabat *M2/M1/ST10/ME80/BK40/VE MONK 1.0* etc... We want this 2.5-4Khz elevation. And preferaby low frequency shelf dropping from 500-600hz, not 800 as can be seen nasty mellow monstruosity like the monk +  (that said I am still able to enjoy them if I try hard enough)

Now @Sam L, if The BK2 sounds good to you it might just be because the fit is lose enough to elevate the 2-7khz area correctly, and your brain compensates for the peak being offset to 5Khz instead of 3. I think I can enjoy the RX1 for the same reason. I think brain compensation is often a dangerously underestimated phenomenon thats helps making things sound normal and average, hiding the defects. However I bet you could tell if a device matches your personal HRTF the second you hear it.

In the end I just don't understand why so many earbuds are tuned dead flat, even compensating marginally for the 5k peak, showing that designers are aware of it's existance. May be the idea that flat response suits nothing but speakers has not made it to everybody yet.

Again *my tests are less than robust and my conclusions are not worth much at all. *
Hope some might find this post helpfull though


----------



## rprodrigues

assassin10000 said:


> The majority of the DIY PK1/PK2 ones just use the name to be more relevant when searching.
> ...
> There are a few DIY PK1 150Ω redfilm ones that use the best DIY driver I've heard. It's pretty much one of my favorite drivers. They go for around $50-60 on AE.
> ...
> They have a different driver now afaik, I'm not sure how the new one sounds. There was a thread about it a while ago, I'm sure it can be found with a search.



Well, that changes everything for me. I really thought that the DIY versions were trying to mimic the genuine version.

It seems that the DIY PK1 150Ω drivers (as spare parts) are out of stock on Aliexpress but there is still a 32 Ohm version.

The following topic talks a little bit about supposed new drivers..
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new-yuin-pk2-fake.928616/


----------



## rprodrigues

mochill said:


> I think the shozy xB has extra bass



How is their sound signature? 
Do they lack treble?


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

ANy impressions on the JCALLY EP05??
Its 13$ on ALI and it include a 5N silver plated mmcx cable. Big ass 16mm drivers... Construction look great...it sell at double the price in other shop.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001547137732.html
I'm very curious about these.

And i guess the Tingo TC200 is well known here too...get quite mass-hyped on NBBA group nowadays lol...t'was about time!


----------



## moonnugs

So...i got the Fiio EM5 earbuds yesterday, and though im still waiting the manufacturer recommended 200 hours of burn-in time before i give my impressions -- my first thought is HOLY crap. I listened to these for 3 hours yesterday, totally lost in the music. In fact, while listening to recordings of some live performances -- these sounded so good, that i actually cried a bit because it felt like i was in the audience. Are they better than headphones or IEMs? They're different. The music feels like its living outside of me, despite still having excellent imaging, instead of feeling like its inside of my head so they're perfect for going about your day and not NEEDING to be 100% focused on the music. However, if you sit down and let the buds take you away...you're in for a treat. Seriously. Right now i can say that i would recommend these to anyone that wants to see what spectacular EARBUDS can do -- worst case, you hate them and return them. 

Heres my question though -- these buds dont come with ear hooks (bummer, since i paid $300 for these) and so when i move around too much they fall out of place just a little (i have tiny ears..ear canals are normal but my physical ears are like a child's lol) does anyone know where i can get some ear hooks for these? @FiiO ? I tried putting some silicone ear hooks on these but all it did was make the sound SUPER SUPER muddy.

Alternatively, are there flat buds out there with ear-hooks that ya'll would recommend?


----------



## Sam L

lackOfInspiration said:


> Hello there,
> I've been following this thread quietly for a moment now, while experimenting with earbuds on my own. I learned a lot reding about your journey guys so thank you very much (especially @assassin10000  and @Sam L and all of you who attempted to produce easy to read measurments)
> 
> I just came across this post which I found very interesting:
> ...


wow, thx for all the effort behind this post. I really appreciate it. It goes with out saying that a good number of us really want to spur innovation in the earbuds space and a big part of that requires making earbuds attractive enough to persuade more iem users to join us. 

I'll have to sit down and read through your post more carefully before I respond with some thoughts of my own. By the way, when you say a "massive boost at 3k and a narrow one at 7k" are you referring to a lower q value at 7k or a smaller increase in dB? I'm guessing dB?


----------



## rprodrigues

@moonnugs 

Could you measure its shell diameter (the cover of the driver)?


----------



## moonnugs

rprodrigues said:


> @moonnugs
> 
> Could you measure its shell diameter (the cover of the driver)?


Yeah! It’s 18mm I believe.


----------



## rprodrigues (Oct 27, 2020)

NiceHCK DIY MX500 and ME80 here...
both are amazing earbuds!


What is weird is that ME80 dont hurt me, even being wider than some of my other buds.
Thank you all for suggesting them.



Spoiler: See me 








I still have a Toneking P16 and a DIY Pk2 on their way to me.


----------



## Sam L

I'm curious about what to expect on 11/11 with earbuds. Are there still good discounts on buds <$20? I can't imagine seeing that much of a discount. It'll be my first 11/11 sale I participate in.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> I'm curious about what to expect on 11/11 with earbuds. Are there still good discounts on buds <$20? I can't imagine seeing that much of a discount. It'll be my first 11/11 sale I participate in.


If there arent any big deals on a specific item, the way you usually save money is from coupons.



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-discovery-thread.586909/page-3295#post-15826460
(that wasnt even on 11/11 but huge savings due to coupon stacking)


----------



## rprodrigues

Sam L said:


> I'm curious about what to expect on 11/11 with earbuds. Are there still good discounts on buds <$20? I can't imagine seeing that much of a discount. It'll be my first 11/11 sale I participate in.



Don't expect huge direct discounts. 
As  @RikudouGoku said,  the way to go is to try to stack coupons.

During the sales, I'm used to look for coupons here. That page is constantly updated.


----------



## lackOfInspiration

Sam L said:


> wow, thx for all the effort behind this post. I really appreciate it. It goes with out saying that a good number of us really want to spur innovation in the earbuds space and a big part of that requires making earbuds attractive enough to persuade more iem users to join us.
> 
> I'll have to sit down and read through your post more carefully before I respond with some thoughts of my own. By the way, when you say a "massive boost at 3k and a narrow one at 7k" are you referring to a lower q value at 7k or a smaller increase in dB? I'm guessing dB?



You're welcome, glad you appreciate it! 
I'ms sure earbuds have the potential to interest a lot of users. Their price/performance ratio is so wild. After all, the original monk started a revival nobody expected.

Well I mean a higher Q value (around 4) and in fact ther's also a lower increase in DB: so narower and smaller compered to the 3k one. I admit there's nothing to make visualization easy here.


----------



## jasswolf

rprodrigues said:


> NiceHCK DIY MX500 and ME80 here...
> both are amazing earbuds!
> 
> 
> ...


Nice! Looking forward to your comparisons between the ME80 and the MX500.


----------



## mochill

RikudouGoku said:


> If there arent any big deals on a specific item, the way you usually save money is from coupons.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-discovery-thread.586909/page-3295#post-15826460
> (that wasnt even on 11/11 but huge savings due to coupon stacking)


If I got that price, I'd buy them too 😯


----------



## RikudouGoku

mochill said:


> If I got that price, I'd buy them too 😯


yeah, a steal! 

Wonder if it will be discounted like that on 11/11.


----------



## Sam L

rprodrigues said:


> NiceHCK DIY MX500 and ME80 here...
> both are amazing earbuds!
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, it's weird, the me80 are decently substantial in size but don't feel like it in ear. I also appreciate the metal stem, makes it easy to manipulate, insert, remove, etc.


----------



## baskingshark

Seems there's a new Toneking T0400S. On multiple shops on Aliexpress. $56 USD.
Wonder what is the upgrade from the regular T0400, anybody tried it yet?





This is not the green Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis set, which is more expensive and is actually a West African Green Mamba.


----------



## jogawag

*New Yincrow!
Yincrow RW-2000 Flagship HIFI Metal CNC Earphone 15mm Dynamic Drive Earbud MMCX 2.5mm/4.4mm Balanced


*


----------



## dissociativity

and so the yincrow rw-100 arrived, and I'd say it has IEM tier bass while having a comfy fit unlike mx500 shells, clean and reasonably fast too.
Just got it, soo look forward to more impressions.

It has less resolution than the qian 69, moondrop nameless still, but given how cheap it is, maybe that doesn't matter, the overall tuning definitely doesn't have recessed mids and highs like the nicehck b40 does (which I enjoy for mellow listening before bed, or youtube videos), but that reveals that the clarity and detail (beyond the clean sounding strong bass) isn't impressing.


----------



## dissociativity

NymPHONOmaniac said:


> ANy impressions on the JCALLY EP05??
> Its 13$ on ALI and it include a 5N silver plated mmcx cable. Big ass 16mm drivers... Construction look great...it sell at double the price in other shop.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001547137732.html
> I'm very curious about these.
> ...


the JC10 is good and looks idential to the EP05 but without mmcx, the build and cable are decent, sound kinda like the qian69, but with less bass and slightly lower fidelity. 

The EP01 however has fairly mediocre fidelity, pretty bad for the price and distorts at higher volumes.

I'm unsure if the EP05 isn't just a JC10 with mmcx, but if it is that cheap with mmcx and you really desire an mmcx bud, go for it.

Else I'd grab two pairs of the last of the qian 69 before they  disappear forever, the one seller is reputeable and sound-wise they do everything better than both jcally buds I've tried.
qian 69 are surprisingly sturdy, I've had a pair since they came out, 2? years now?


----------



## moonnugs

jogawag said:


> *New Yincrow!
> Yincrow RW-2000 Flagship HIFI Metal CNC Earphone 15mm Dynamic Drive Earbud MMCX 2.5mm/4.4mm Balanced*


Just put in my order! Ive been rocking the X6's for a couple of years now (lol) and i love them, but i wanna see what their high end stuff is like. This is their new "bison" flagship (according to my google translate app). Ill be comparing these and the Fiio EM5's, which i got a couple of days ago. It'll probably take a week to put them through their burn in period and get a real assessment.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 28, 2020)

moonnugs said:


> Just put in my order! Ive been rocking the X6's for a couple of years now (lol) and i love them, but i wanna see what their high end stuff is like. This is their new "bison" flagship (according to my google translate app). Ill be comparing these and the Fiio EM5's, which i got a couple of days ago. It'll probably take a week to put them through their burn in period and get a real assessment.



I am looking forward to your comparisons.


----------



## noknok23

moonnugs said:


> So...i got the Fiio EM5 earbuds yesterday, and though im still waiting the manufacturer recommended 200 hours of burn-in time before i give my impressions -- my first thought is HOLY crap. I listened to these for 3 hours yesterday, totally lost in the music. In fact, while listening to recordings of some live performances -- these sounded so good, that i actually cried a bit because it felt like i was in the audience. Are they better than headphones or IEMs? They're different. The music feels like its living outside of me, despite still having excellent imaging, instead of feeling like its inside of my head so they're perfect for going about your day and not NEEDING to be 100% focused on the music. However, if you sit down and let the buds take you away...you're in for a treat. Seriously. Right now i can say that i would recommend these to anyone that wants to see what spectacular EARBUDS can do -- worst case, you hate them and return them.
> 
> Heres my question though -- these buds dont come with ear hooks (bummer, since i paid $300 for these) and so when i move around too much they fall out of place just a little (i have tiny ears..ear canals are normal but my physical ears are like a child's lol) does anyone know where i can get some ear hooks for these? @FiiO ? I tried putting some silicone ear hooks on these but all it did was make the sound SUPER SUPER muddy.
> 
> Alternatively, are there flat buds out there with ear-hooks that ya'll would recommend?


Personally, I prefer to attach the cable to a shirt clip to keep my earbuds in place because earhooks change the sound too much.


----------



## superuser1

moonnugs said:


> Just put in my order! Ive been rocking the X6's for a couple of years now (lol) and i love them, but i wanna see what their high end stuff is like. This is their new "bison" flagship (according to my google translate app). Ill be comparing these and the Fiio EM5's, which i got a couple of days ago. It'll probably take a week to put them through their burn in period and get a real assessment.


I couldn't find it on AliExpress, would you mind sharing the link, please.


----------



## rprodrigues (Oct 28, 2020)

superuser1 said:


> I couldn't find it on AliExpress, would you mind sharing the link, please.



Try pasting this URL on your browser... www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001657660869.html

Ask the seller a huge discount.


----------



## RikudouGoku

rprodrigues said:


> Try pasting this URL on your browser... www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001657660869.html
> 
> Ask the seller a huge discount.


Pretty expensive...but interesting. Wonder if the bass is at the very least as good as the X6.


----------



## jasswolf

RikudouGoku said:


> Pretty expensive...but interesting. Wonder if the bass is at the very least as good as the X6.


Reading more about the X6, seems the bio-cellulose driver may be a factor there.

Does anyone know if the RW-9 has a similar driver?


----------



## furyossa (Oct 28, 2020)

RikudouGoku said:


> Pretty expensive...but interesting. Wonder if the bass is at the very least as good as the X6.


The huge price difference between RW-1000 and RW-2000. Both drivers use Titanium diaphragm, on the newer version they increase sensitivity from 110 to 112dB and lower the impedance from 24 to 16ohm, so more mobile-friendly. The frequency range is the same 10Hz-40kHz.
I don’t see any significant improvement that would justify the $100 price difference


----------



## Sam L

furyossa said:


> The huge price difference between RW-1000 and RW-2000. Both drivers use Titanium diaphragm, on the newer version they increase sensitivity from 110 to 112dB and lower the impedance from 24 to 16ohm, so more mobile-friendly. Frequency Rande the same 10Hz-40kHz.
> I don’t see any significant improvement that would justify the $100 price difference


good to know. I'm going to ignore the rw-2000 then.


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Pretty expensive...but interesting. Wonder if the bass is at the very least as good as the X6.


doesn't matter for you, because the bass will never approach your z5!


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> doesn't matter for you, because the bass will never approach your z5!


hahaah yeah, I wont bother with it due to the price. But I still want the RW-9. 

(and the Shuoer Tape pro)

Not much I want for this 11/11 on the chi-fi side.


----------



## rprodrigues

RikudouGoku said:


> hahaah yeah, I wont bother with it due to the price. But I still want the RW-9.
> 
> (and the Shuoer Tape pro)
> 
> Not much I want for this 11/11 on the chi-fi side.



I was going to buy a (supposedly) genuine PK2 but after the last statements here, I just gave up.
It is possible I end up ordering a Shozy XB, but I still haven't found any review on them.


----------



## Sam L

rprodrigues said:


> I was going to buy a (supposedly) genuine PK2 but after the last statements here, I just gave up.
> It is possible I end up ordering a Shozy XB, but I still haven't found any review on them.


Yeah, don't get the pk2, even the genuine version. It was one of my first buds purchases. It's a capable bud but mine has awful lower mid bloat, like really bad. I believe the earlier versions had a different sound profile.


----------



## dissociativity

How is the Yincrow RW-777 or the RW-1000 anyway? I see little about them, since everyone is so enthralled by the sub-20 dollar sector, I don't hear a whole lot about mid-range priced sorta buds.


----------



## dissociativity (Oct 28, 2020)

Got the Memt T6, tuning feels like vocals and treble is?? cupped, like it's playing out of a plastic cup lol? very odd tuning.
Smells like strawberrries, lovely packaging and little semi-rigid magnetically closed bag, but the sound is rather disappointing.
the yincrow RW100 definitely beat these by far in terms of semi in-ears and are a perfectly good option for cheap for those who like that style of earbud.
Definite downgrade from the memt t5.

I'd call the sound fuzzy with a peak at? 6k I'm guessing? if anything, it doesn't distort at higher volumes or anything, the tuning is just bad.
I can hear in the mid-bass that the driver doesn't feel like it's bad, just badly tuned.

So I butchered them with a hairdryer and a knife to pry them open, and they sound substantially better without dampening foam, if too bright.
Still not worth it, but not overly cupped sounding anymore.

I guess I'll recycle the cable for a DIY'd earbud, you win some you lose some.
I got some apple buds with lightning input, are those worth recabling to 3.5mm?


----------



## jogawag

dissociativity said:


> How is the Yincrow RW-777 or the RW-1000 anyway? I see little about them, since everyone is so enthralled by the sub-20 dollar sector, I don't hear a whole lot about mid-range priced sorta buds.


You can key in rw-777 or rw-1000 in the "Search this thread ..." text area at the top of this page to get a lot of information about them.


----------



## superuser1

This is the graph for TONEKING Dendroaspis Viridis, the mid bass look pretty strong? Anyone else have their eyes set on these?


----------



## furyossa (Oct 29, 2020)

superuser1 said:


> This is the graph for TONEKING Dendroaspis Viridis, the mid bass look pretty strong? Anyone else have their eyes set on these?


The choice of color and name was taken from this snake



If you look at these two DIY composite Ti drivers (PU+Ti) you will see down below on these graphs what is the main "feature".
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000177042681.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001146843093.html
Toneking driver use one more coat over the diaphragm, PEEK (thermal plastic)
Hmmm...maybe this snake have PEEK skin...who knows


----------



## rprodrigues (Oct 29, 2020)

Toneking TP16 are here. I love them.



Spoiler: TP16







A MX500 and Pk2, both diy versions from Fengru, are also comming.

Currently, I have TP16, Tomahawk, EB2, ME80, diy MX500 and diy PK1 from Nicehck, KBEar Stellar, TC200 (also a diy), and ISN Rambo II (a real deception for me).

For me, the more impressive are EB2 (likely due to its small size), ME80,  and TP16.
I'm really impressed with earbuds mostly due to their soundstage and confort compared to iems. The cons are the lack, to some extent, of clarity.

If I move to an upper tier, would I get any buds able to justify the gap from the $ 20 bracket (ISN Rambo II can't)?


----------



## Sam L

dissociativity said:


> How is the Yincrow RW-777 or the RW-1000 anyway? I see little about them, since everyone is so enthralled by the sub-20 dollar sector, I don't hear a whole lot about mid-range priced sorta buds.


Yeah the issue is there are some really cheap buds that sound so good that there isn't a real appetite to pay more. I'm slowly winning over some people to how awesome the Nameless sounds with my v1.4 target curve. Same to be said for the Monk lite 120ohm with the v1.4 compensation file -- both 96% end game sound. no joke.


----------



## Sam L

rprodrigues said:


> Toneking TP16 are here. I love them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ah, forgot about the eb2! I have another one to add to my cart for 11/11, thx!


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> Toneking TP16 are here. I love them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So you are not satisfied with Rambo II? I mean sound and performance. 
It seems to me that BGVP DX5 leaves the same impression. 
Build quality is fantastic, a lot of accessories but how they sound (since it uses DLC driver), nothing special at least for me.


----------



## rprodrigues (Oct 29, 2020)

furyossa said:


> So you are not satisfied with Rambo II? I mean sound and performance.
> It seems to me that BGVP DX5 leaves the same impression.
> Build quality is fantastic, a lot of accessories but how they sound (since it uses DLC driver), nothing special at least for me.



Not at all.

I had high expectations on them due to some reviews I read before placing the order. They are praised on such reviews, but they are mid centric with poor extension for booth high and low ends. For me, they don't match the reviews at all. Besides, they are heavy and fit badly despite being small enough for my small ears. In addition, I tried to return themv to Penonadio but I didn't trust what I was asked for. So, it was a very bad experience for a set of buds at 70 bucks which is resting in my drawer


----------



## mochill

superuser1 said:


> This is the graph for TONEKING Dendroaspis Viridis, the mid bass look pretty strong? Anyone else have their eyes set on these?


Mine shipped


----------



## furyossa (Oct 29, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> Not at all.
> 
> I had high expectations on them due to some reviews I read before placing the order. They are praised on such reviews, but they are mid centric with poor extension for booth high and low ends. For me, they don't match the reviews at all. Besides, they are heavy and fit badly despite being small enough for my small ears. In addition, I tried to return themv to Penonadio but I didn't trust what I was asked for. So, it was a very bad experience for a set of buds at 70 bucks which is resting in my drawer


I had the same problem with DX5. At least yours are in the drawer, mine are disassembled   I was planning to do some mod but it stayed on that. Maybe someday.


----------



## povidlo

rprodrigues said:


> For me, the more impressive are EB2 (likely due to its small size), ME80,  and TP16.
> I'm really impressed with earbuds mostly due to their soundstage and confort compared to iems. The cons are the lack, to some extent, of clarity.
> 
> If I move to an upper tier, would I get any buds able to justify the gap from the $ 20 bracket (ISN Rambo II can't)?



I personally own just two earbuds at the moment: ME80 and ST-10s Gold. 

ME80 are very nice for the price! Glad I was able to snag a pair before their apparent discontinuation. 

I would highly recommend Smabat ST-10s Gold though if you have a powerful headphone amplifier. I feel like they're a major step-up from ME80 when properly amplified, especially with a tube amplifier. 

Most prominently to me, they deliver a hefty low-end with a wide soundstage.

For under $100 USD they're going to be available for 11.11, I think it's a steal.


----------



## Sam L

oh, hey just noticed I broke 1k posts recently! How many do I need to get "supremus"?


----------



## moonnugs

povidlo said:


> I personally own just two earbuds at the moment: ME80 and ST-10s Gold.
> 
> ME80 are very nice for the price! Glad I was able to snag a pair before their apparent discontinuation.
> 
> ...



Would you also recommend the silver ones? (impedance of 40 ohm). Or would much of the value of the ST-10s be lost at the lower impedance?


----------



## povidlo

moonnugs said:


> Would you also recommend the silver ones? (impedance of 40 ohm). Or would much of the value of the ST-10s be lost at the lower impedance?


Sorry, never tried the silver ones.


----------



## tgx78

Sam L said:


> oh, hey just noticed I broke 1k posts recently! How many do I need to get "supremus"?



👍 1500


----------



## Sam L

moonnugs said:


> Would you also recommend the silver ones? (impedance of 40 ohm). Or would much of the value of the ST-10s be lost at the lower impedance?


If you are on an android 9+ source, I so not recommend the silver version. There are a number of earbuds in the sub-$15 category that with Wavelet compensation sound better than the silver s-10s.


----------



## Sam L

tgx78 said:


> 👍 1500


Ah, only 105 more for you!


----------



## moonnugs

Sam L said:


> If you are on an android 9+ source, I so not recommend the silver version. There are a number of earbuds in the sub-$15 category that with Wavelet compensation sound better than the silver s-10s.



really? please id love your recommendation. Im willing to spend up to $150 for a great pair of earbuds (flat) that you can wear over the ear, that have a slightly warm presentation, and arent TOO large (for example, i just had to return the $300 Fiio EM5 because they kept falling out of my ears and were just really uncomfortable). Also, i have a dac/amp (Fiio BTR5) that i carry with me so buds on the higher end of the impedance spectrum arent a problem -- i just like to have the _option _of being able to run them from my ipod touch.


----------



## rprodrigues (Oct 29, 2020)

jasswolf said:


> Nice! Looking forward to your comparisons between the ME80 and the MX500.




Sorry for the late reply.
For me, ME80 is a better set due to its more neutral signature compared to MX500. However, MX500 is a steal due to their  price/SQ ratio.
Since I'm not good on describing sound characteristics, I think @RikudouGoku can give you a good description about their difference.





povidlo said:


> I personally own just two earbuds at the moment: ME80 and ST-10s Gold.
> 
> ME80 are very nice for the price! Glad I was able to snag a pair before their apparent discontinuation.
> 
> ...



My bad here!
I forgot I have a M2 Pro with drivers from the gold ST-10s.



Spoiler: Hi there, I'm here...









For me, the set is amazing due to its low-end extension. C contrariwise, it seems they lack a little bit of the treble extension I like. Anyway, due to the shape of the shells, I'm pretty sure they sound different than the original ST-10s.

In addition, they are a little bit more large than my ears would like...

How would you compare the treble in your ME80 and ST-10s?


----------



## RikudouGoku

rprodrigues said:


> Sorry for the late reply.
> For me, ME80 is a better set due to its more neutral signature compared to MX500. However, MX500 is a steal due to their  price/SQ ratio.
> Since I'm not good on describing sound characteristics, I think @RikudouGoku can give you a good description about their difference.


I might review the ME80 (and hopefully before the sale starts) since I havent had the time to carefully analyze the sound. 

But from what I have gotten from just listening to it normally, is that it is a timbre and tonality king amongst my buds. But that the MX500 has a more airy sound and better technicalities.

(Take it with a grain of salt.)


----------



## jogawag (Oct 31, 2020)

I used to have the qian69 and thought it was a good design but normal earbuds.

This time I bought the qian39, a smaller earbuds with a PK shell diameter of 16.2mm, because I was curious about them.
The fit is great, but when right out of the box the sound was blurry and the bass was bloated.
After 30 hours of burn-in, with full earpads the bass was a little loud but the mid and treble were clearer and the overall sound was well balanced and satisfying.

If you're looking for PK shell earbuds in this thread due to fitment issues, I would definitely recommend this qian39 as budget earbuds for about $6, which is the same size and balanced sound.
EDIT:
What's more, it's a wide soundstage, a warm sound that you can listen to all night long while you sleep.
If you feel the sound too warm, you might want to use donut earpads. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32824719611.html








Thanks to @cqtek for the graph.


----------



## dissociativity

jogawag said:


> I used to have the qian69 and thought it was a good design but normal earbuds.
> 
> This time I bought the qian39, a smaller earbuds with a PK shell diameter of 16.2mm, because I was curious about them.
> The fit is great, but when right out of the box the sound was blurry and the bass was bloated.
> ...


qian 69 sound like a fuller, higher resolution qian 39.
I assure you the 39 isn't better, but the small shell is lovely.


----------



## povidlo

rprodrigues said:


> My bad here!
> I forgot I have a M2 Pro with drivers from the gold ST-10s.
> 
> 
> ...


M2 Pro is an interesting concept! Glad you got them.

Agreed on comfort. ME80 are more comfortable vs ST-10s for me as well, just like you feel vs M2 Pro.

For treble, doing a bit of A/B testing this morning on Paw S1 (which I don't think brings ST-10s Gold to their full potential but still sounds great) listening to Rejoice by Tony Allen, Hugh Masekela. 

Signature-wise, ME80 sound brighter so at first seems like they have better treble extension. ST-10s have almost Sennheiser-like, darker tuning profile. However a proper listen shows that ST-10s Gold are generally better in the treble area, too. Notes coming from Masekala's flugelhorn have more texture and quality. Treble quantity and extension (I find both a little rolled off up there) are similar. To me, lows and mids on ST-10s are on another level, so treble appears less pronounced than on ME80.

ST-10s have an advantage of going balanced due to swappable cable. I use mine strictly balanced. Have you tried M2 Pro with a balanced connection to see if there's an improvement in treble extension?


----------



## Sam L

povidlo said:


> M2 Pro is an interesting concept! Glad you got them.
> 
> Agreed on comfort. ME80 are more comfortable vs ST-10s for me as well, just like you feel vs M2 Pro.
> 
> ...


are you running that into a macbook?


----------



## povidlo

Sam L said:


> are you running that into a macbook?


Razer Blade Stealth (2017, gunmetal). It's like a Windows version of MacBook in terms of form factor.


----------



## Blackwolf14

Currently, I have ME80, B40 and RY4S UE. I like RY4S UE rather than others. But I have one issue. The left earbud louder than the right. Maybe the problem is 3.5mm jack. I don't know exactly. I am interested in RY4S Mmcx Plus and 300 Ohm version. Anybody faced this issue on Mmcx versions?


----------



## rprodrigues

@povidlo 

Thank you for the comparison.

My M2 set also sounds a  little bit dark. 
It was assembled with a (supposedly) flat tuning filter but there is another tuning filter available. According to Smabat, that filter improves both mid and high regions. I will order it.
I've just done an A/B test with M2 and ME80. This is my first A/B test with them.  M2 sounds indeed more refined. It is a pitty its shells hurst me after a while.

I've been using M2 single-ended with my Fiio K5 pro, which is a powerfull and very clean amp/dac set.  Anyway, I will test the M2 with my E1DA 9038s as soon as I mod one of my spare cables.


----------



## moonnugs

With 11.11 coming up, i put together a shopping cart on Aliexpress filled with buds i wanna try... im new to this and have a bit of money ive been saving up so i wanna try as many as possible. Would any of ya'll be willing to look through this list and let me know if i have any redundancies? 

- Toneking MrZ Ting
- Astrotec Lyra Nature
- DIY EMX500
- Toneking TO65
- Smabat ST-10s
- VE Monk Plus
- Yincrow RW-9 (ive got the x6 already)
- Qian39


----------



## rprodrigues

@moonnugs 
I guess DIY EMX500 and VE Monk Plus are redundancies.


----------



## moonnugs

rprodrigues said:


> @moonnugs
> I guess DIY EMX500 and VE Monk Plus are redundancies.


Thank you! ill probably just get the DIY then.


----------



## mbwilson111

rprodrigues said:


> @moonnugs
> I guess DIY EMX500 and VE Monk Plus are redundancies.



They have the same shape shell but surely the drivers are different... and the tuning.  I do not find them to be the same.


----------



## moonnugs

mbwilson111 said:


> They have the same shape shell but surely the drivers are different... and the tuning.  I do not find them to be the same.



which of the two would you consider to have a "warmer" sound? (for example, i love the Porta Pros sound signature)


----------



## Sam L

mbwilson111 said:


> They have the same shape shell but surely the drivers are different... and the tuning.  I do not find them to be the same.


Agreed. Very different sound. I much prefer the emx500. In fact, I hate the monk plus. Lol


----------



## Sam L

moonnugs said:


> which of the two would you consider to have a "warmer" sound? (for example, i love the Porta Pros sound signature)


The monk plus is warmer, but egregiously so - - lots of lower mid bloat. I have graphs of both models in this thread if you do a search.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> Agreed. Very different sound. I much prefer the emx500. In fact, I hate the monk plus. Lol


I hated both the monk plus and the lite. I even gave the plus away because of that. 

The MX500 is outclassing them both.


----------



## waynes world (Oct 30, 2020)

mbwilson111 said:


> They have the same shape shell but surely the drivers are different... and the tuning.  I do not find them to be the same.





Sam L said:


> Agreed. Very different sound. I much prefer the emx500. In fact, I hate the monk plus. Lol



Yup. And Yup.

Well, I don't hate the monk plus, and I haven't heard the new MX500's, but I still stand behind my Yups!


----------



## lackOfInspiration (Oct 30, 2020)

moonnugs said:


> which of the two would you consider to have a "warmer" sound? (for example, i love the Porta Pros sound signature)


If you're interested in a portapro-like axperience I think the HI-Z TY 32Ohm could make you happy. I said earlier they are the only buds I'd really recommend for the moment. If you have ok seal with mx500 shells, what you have is virtually a 7$ porta pro. As I hear it, they are very very close, they fallow the same frequency response up to the early 2K elevation, the 4k dip and 5k peak (and even after that the 9 an 10k peaks). Athough you might hear it defferently because ear's geometry changes percieved response hugely above 6k, I think it's a relevant purchase. Also, I'd be very happy to read about how you think they compare.

And by the way I'd say like the others that MONK + are dark and bloated and not worth much (not even 5$?).


----------



## rprodrigues

@moonnugs 

My bad. Sorry.

My guessing was based on the fact that it seems that Monk plus has a v-shaped signature as well as Diy Mx500. 

By the way, the praised Diy Mx500 version some here have, including me, is the one with black shells and silver cable from Nicehck. Avoid the pk1 version which is also present on the same listing on Aliexpress.


----------



## classfolkphile (Oct 31, 2020)

Please help.

I'm looking for a pair of earbuds under $200 that have a sound quality and signature close to the Shozy BK Black I have but that are more sturdy. I've had a number of buds that have a similar construction to the Shozy that have had the caps repeatedly come off leading to a channel eventually shorting out, i.e., several pairs of Monk +, a Monk Copper, and a Shozy XB.

This has not happened with any of the several Faaeal or Sennheiser buds I have had so there must be something out there that fills my requirements. I hope. Unfortunately it seems almost all of the reviews of higher end earbuds I've read here describe a bright or analytical (or at least a mid-range recessed) sound signature which I'm allergic to. So is there anything that's balanced - but somewhat warm - and *durable*?

Thanks in advance.

Edit: Shozy XB, not EB.


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> I hated both the monk plus and the lite. I even gave the plus away because of that.
> 
> The MX500 is outclassing them both.


ummmm... ok, I agree. hesitancy is because I only listen to the lite 120 compensated, which dramatically changes the sound quality for the better. But at default, stock tuning, I'll agree that the mx500 is better than the plus or lite.


----------



## moonnugs

mbwilson111 said:


> They have the same shape shell but surely the drivers are different... and the tuning.  I do not find them to be the same.





Sam L said:


> The monk plus is warmer, but egregiously so - - lots of lower mid bloat. I have graphs of both models in this thread if you do a search.


Thank you both for the clarification!



lackOfInspiration said:


> If you're interested in a portapro-like axperience I think the HI-Z TY 32Ohm could make you happy. I said earlier they are the only buds I'd really recommend for the moment. If you have ok seal with mx500 shells, what you have is virtually a 7$ porta pro. As I hear it, they are very very close, they fallow the same frequency response up to the early 2K elevation, the 4k dip and 5k peak (and even after that the 9 an 10k peaks). Athough you might hear it defferently because ear's geometry changes percieved response hugely above 6k, I think it's a relevant purchase. Also, I'd be very happy to read about how you think they compare.
> 
> And by the way I'd say like the others that MONK + are dark and bloated and not worth much (not even 5$?).


Hell yea! HI-Z TY 32oHm dropping into my shopping cart right now! Yeah, im wearing my Yincrow x6 right now (been wearing them all day) and id say i definitely have a fairly decent seal. Im excited to try out your recommendation! Buds that sound like Porta Pros would be my end game, lol. Now if only i could get a (portable) set of closed headphones that sound similarly, and i'd be SETTTTT for life. 



rprodrigues said:


> @moonnugs
> 
> My bad. Sorry.
> 
> ...


All good! no apologies necessary, i appreciate your response to begin with. And thank you very very much for the tip about Nicehck, i just adjusted my shopping cart with your recommendation! 

Ya'll...im going to have so many buds to listen to and review...quarantine times are suddenly looking a little less quiet.


----------



## baskingshark

Blackwolf14 said:


> Currently, I have ME80, B40 and RY4S UE. I like RY4S UE rather than others. But I have one issue. The left earbud louder than the right. Maybe the problem is 3.5mm jack. I don't know exactly. I am interested in RY4S Mmcx Plus and 300 Ohm version. Anybody faced this issue on Mmcx versions?



I bought the RY4S plus and 300 ohm versions (both MMCXed), no issues with channel imbalance. Well CHIFI is not a paragon of good QC, so sometimes it is a crapshoot for QC control for their cheaper gear (and even sometimes more expensive gear).



moonnugs said:


> With 11.11 coming up, i put together a shopping cart on Aliexpress filled with buds i wanna try... im new to this and have a bit of money ive been saving up so i wanna try as many as possible. Would any of ya'll be willing to look through this list and let me know if i have any redundancies?
> 
> - Toneking MrZ Ting
> - Astrotec Lyra Nature
> ...



Which SMABAT ST10S are u intending to get? The black silver and black gold are quite different sounding. I don't have the black silver but those that own both say the black gold is better (though more expensive).


----------



## moonnugs

baskingshark said:


> Which SMABAT ST10S are u intending to get? The black silver and black gold are quite different sounding. I don't have the black silver but those that own both say the black gold is better (though more expensive).



Haha, oops, yeah i was thinking of getting the black-silver since the black-gold has a much higher impedance. Not a problem, since i have the fio btr5 amp/dac but i like to have the option of a headphone that isnt terribly hard to push. I've also heard the black-gold is better, though im wondering if how much better it is would be worth the price diff.


----------



## Stereo Skunk

How the hell am I just finding out about this thread now???

I hated the Fiio EM5 and AT CM2000Ti.

There's no way I can read through 3300 pages... damn can someone catch me up?

The problems I found with them seemed to stem from a misalignment of the earbud driver and the ear canal, disrupting the wavefront? Also they weren't comfortable. AT build quality was good, Fiio build quality was miserable.

The earbuds for me to beat right now are the Apple Airpods. Comfortable, wireless, sound great. They also seem to direct sound out of the "side" of the earbud toward the canal.

Does anyone know of earbuds that can beat the Apple Airpods (it has to be "better" in order to justify the cable)

What is "better"? Iono. You guys are the experts.

Edit: Hi @baskingshark !!!


----------



## baskingshark

Stereo Skunk said:


> How the hell am I just finding out about this thread now???
> 
> I hated the Fiio EM5 and AT CM2000Ti.
> 
> ...



Earbuds come in various shapes and sizes, so maybe u can check out this link: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3207#post-15645387
Might be a good idea to maybe buy some cheap sub $10 sets for various sized earbuds to see what fits well, then perhaps upgrade from there.

Do you have any particular budget, sound signature preference or preferred music genres? Maybe that will be easier for the community to fine tune their recommendations!


----------



## lackOfInspiration

moonnugs said:


> Ya'll...im going to have so many buds to listen to and review...quarantine times are suddenly looking a little less quiet.


Ahaha I was thinking axactly the same thing. 
Can't wait to read your reviews!


----------



## Stereo Skunk

baskingshark said:


> Earbuds come in various shapes and sizes, so maybe u can check out this link: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3207#post-15645387
> Might be a good idea to maybe buy some cheap sub $10 sets for various sized earbuds to see what fits well, then perhaps upgrade from there.
> 
> Do you have any particular budget, sound signature preference or preferred music genres? Maybe that will be easier for the community to fine tune their recommendations!



Oh god. You guys are gonna make me want the MDR-E252, aren't you? 

Max US$500 on the earbuds. I'd be too scared to use them (or not use them all the time) if they were worth more than that. 

Regarding sound signature... I guess something well balanced like Harman neutral. I'm trying not to be that picky about sound. Just something where it doesn't have a jarring defect that you feel you must EQ. Smooth. Yes. Smooth.


----------



## baskingshark (Oct 30, 2020)

Stereo Skunk said:


> Oh god. You guys are gonna make me want the MDR-E252, aren't you?
> 
> Max US$500 on the earbuds. I'd be too scared to use them (or not use them all the time) if they were worth more than that.
> 
> Regarding sound signature... I guess something well balanced like Harman neutral. I'm trying not to be that picky about sound. Just something where it doesn't have a jarring defect that you feel you must EQ. Smooth. Yes. Smooth.



Haha I don't think u need to spend so much on earbuds! They are relatively cheaper than IEMs/headphones for the sound. TOTL earbuds can be gotten from $100 - 200ish. TBH even $20 can get u pretty decent sound nowadays, and as per most things in this hobby, diminishing returns exist the higher up you go.

My most expensive earbud is the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold, I think it is around $100 at the current 11/11 aliexpress sales. It is rather neutralish with subbass boost. It has good subbass extension/quantity (for a earbud). I'm basshead and I find most other buds are lacking in subbass, so YMMV. Technicalities are good for a earbud, but it won't compare with IEMs in clarity and details as there is no seal. It is quite smooth sounding to me, but a few of the others here have fit issues with it as it is quite big for a earbud. The Black Gold needs amping, as per the 150 ohm impedance suggests (@DBaldock9 measured it and I think he reported an even higher impedance than the 150 ohm advertised values). The bass is not the most textured too, if it was a bit more, it would be my end game earbud for sure.


----------



## Stereo Skunk

baskingshark said:


> Haha I don't think u need to spend so much on earbuds! They are relatively cheaper than IEMs/headphones for the sound. TOTL earbuds can be gotten from $100 - 200ish. TBH even $20 can get u pretty decent sound nowadays, and as per most things in this hobby, diminishing returns exist the higher up you go.
> 
> My most expensive earbud is the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold, I think it is around $100 at the current 11/11 aliexpress sales. It is rather neutralish with good subbass extension/quantity (for a earbud). I'm basshead and I find most other buds are lacking in subbass, so YMMV. Technicalities are good for a earbud, but it won't compare with IEMs in clarity and details as there is no seal. It is quite smooth sounding to me, but a few of the others here have fit issues with it as it is quite big for a earbud. The Black Gold needs amping, as per the 150 ohm impedance suggests (@DBaldock9 measured it and I think he reported an even higher impedance than the 150 ohm advertised values). The bass is not the most textured too, if it was a bit more, it would be my end game earbud for sure.



I feel I must try those now. You are right on the comfort. I did not find the Fiio comfortable. 

I see Amazon has one for $160, which is more than Ali. How is shopping on Ali? What are the ship times and how are the returns?


----------



## baskingshark

Stereo Skunk said:


> I feel I must try those now. You are right on the comfort. I did not find the Fiio comfortable.
> 
> I see Amazon has one for $160, which is more than Ali. How is shopping on Ali? What are the ship times and how are the returns?



Aliexpress is generally cheaper than Amazon, but returning stuff for defects/warranty is a pain, you might need to ship stuff back to China, which costs a lot of time and money.
The good thing is Aliexpress keeps the money in escrow until you the buyer confirm that you received a satisfactory product, before releasing the money to the shop.

Just buy from Aliexpress shops with positive ratings > 97% and also don't buy from brand new shops that have 0 reviews. I've bought almost 200 items so far, maybe 5% weren't delivered (eg during the covid period) or had defects, mostly managed to get a refund via taking photos and showing Aliexpress evidence of shipment not reaching me/defects. Transport time is a crapshoot, sometimes it can take a month or more to come, especially in this covid climate.

But if u want a peace of mind for good returns policy and CS, then maybe Amazon is the way to go, for a bit higher premium. FWIW, Aliexpress is having a mega sale on 11/11. If u collect coupons via their app (playing their lame games), the prices stack on top of the discounted prices, so quite significant savings. 

Here's a post about the different coupons you can get and stack: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-discovery-thread.586909/page-3420#post-15944621
Here's a post about an example of how to synergistically stack coupons to lower the price on top of the discounted price: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chinese-asian-brand-iem-info-thread.820747/page-2154#post-15943521 

If u are interested in the SMABAT ST10S, get the black gold version, it is supposedly better (but more expensive) than the black silver one (don't have the black silver).


----------



## rprodrigues (Oct 30, 2020)

Anyone already auditioned these Diy Shozy? They  resemble the Shozy Xb (same shell) but supposedly have a different impedance.


----------



## Sam L

Stereo Skunk said:


> How the hell am I just finding out about this thread now???
> 
> I hated the Fiio EM5 and AT CM2000Ti.
> 
> ...


Ummm. I can understand fit issues with the em5. That's an issue overall with earbuds, particularly since they come in all sorts of sizes. @baskingshark does a great job of providing the details. 

In regard to sound quality, did you do a full 200 hour burn in?


----------



## DBaldock9

baskingshark said:


> Haha I don't think u need to spend so much on earbuds! They are relatively cheaper than IEMs/headphones for the sound. TOTL earbuds can be gotten from $100 - 200ish. TBH even $20 can get u pretty decent sound nowadays, and as per most things in this hobby, diminishing returns exist the higher up you go.
> 
> My most expensive earbud is the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold, I think it is around $100 at the current 11/11 aliexpress sales. It is rather neutralish with subbass boost. It has good subbass extension/quantity (for a earbud). I'm basshead and I find most other buds are lacking in subbass, so YMMV. Technicalities are good for a earbud, but it won't compare with IEMs in clarity and details as there is no seal. It is quite smooth sounding to me, but a few of the others here have fit issues with it as it is quite big for a earbud. The Black Gold needs amping, as per the 150 ohm impedance suggests (@DBaldock9 measured it and I think he reported an even higher impedance than the 150 ohm advertised values). The bass is not the most textured too, if it was a bit more, it would be my end game earbud for sure.



In my post, I mentioned measuring 300-Ω -
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15911951


----------



## Sam L (Oct 30, 2020)

DBaldock9 said:


> In my post, I mentioned measuring 300-Ω -
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15911951


That's right, I remember reading that before. Thank you for bringing that to attention.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 31, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> Anyone already auditioned these Diy Shozy? They  resemble the Shozy Xb (same shell) but supposedly have a different impedance.



I haven't auditioned Diy Shozy, but I think that is DIY versions of "Shozy Earbuds 1st Gen (2015)" reviewed on the following sites.
https://kingrudi0504.blogspot.com/2015/12/shozy-earbud-unboxing-and-impressions.html

The shell shape is the same as "2005 - NTT DoCoMo Old Variant (16Ω) OEMed by Mitsubishi" that is named in the list of
*HISTORY OF EARBUDS (Key Models Timeline)*.


----------



## mochill

rprodrigues said:


> Anyone already auditioned these Diy Shozy? They  resemble the Shozy Xb (same shell) but supposedly have a different impedance.


Shozy had a earbud before the cygnus called diy but these have koss cable 🤔


----------



## rprodrigues (Oct 31, 2020)

jogawag said:


> I haven't auditioned Diy Shozy, but I think that is DIY versions of "Shozy Earbuds 1st Gen (2015)" reviewed on the following sites.
> https://kingrudi0504.blogspot.com/2015/12/shozy-earbud-unboxing-and-impressions.html
> 
> The shell shape is the same as "2005 - NTT DoCoMo Old Variant (16Ω) OEMed by Mitsubishi" that is named in the list of
> *HISTORY OF EARBUDS (Key Models Timeline)*.



Wow! Thank you!

According to the review you linked, they are meh, but there is a 'newer' and better generation. 
You've just saved me some bucks!

I thought they could resemble Shozy XB soundwise.
I'm avoinding to order the XB itself since Penonaudio seems to be the current sole seller for them.

I've just ordered the white SR2 from this listing.



mochill said:


> Shozy had a earbud before the cygnus called diy but these have koss cable 🤔



According to the review linked by @jogawag, they do have the koss cable,  what is indeed weird.


----------



## Blackwolf14

baskingshark said:


> I bought the RY4S plus and 300 ohm versions (both MMCXed), no issues with channel imbalance. Well CHIFI is not a paragon of good QC, so sometimes it is a crapshoot for QC control for their cheaper gear (and even sometimes more expensive gear).


Thank you for the answer. I agree with you. I didn't notice that when the earbud arrived me. After a couple month the issue appeared.

Also I would to say something about B40. I paired my phone and B40 and I enjoy listening to music with EQ. In my humble opinion, B40 and ME80 without EQ its too flat for me. RY4S is more detailed, energytic. I have basic tools: Spotify, Vention usb sound card and DD TC35. Maybe both earbuds(B40 and ME80) needs to drive.


----------



## jogawag

rprodrigues said:


> ...
> I've just ordered the white SR2 from this listing.
> ...



Please note that the SR2 you bought needs 100 hours of burn-in.
Also, the SR2 have a wide soundstage and the sound signature is L-shaped, so you might want to use donut earpads.


----------



## Stereo Skunk

Sam L said:


> Ummm. I can understand fit issues with the em5. That's an issue overall with earbuds, particularly since they come in all sorts of sizes. @baskingshark does a great job of providing the details.
> 
> In regard to sound quality, did you do a full 200 hour burn in?



I didn't but I thought the sound quality issues were due to the earbud being off-axis to the ear canal. Not something that burn in could fix. Plus, I need comfort first, then sound then aesthetics/build quality. 

That makes me wonder. Not that this is a requirement of mine, but has anyone gotten really precise localization with earbuds? Like you could pinpoint where it was coming from inside your head?


----------



## baskingshark

Stereo Skunk said:


> I didn't but I thought the sound quality issues were due to the earbud being off-axis to the ear canal. Not something that burn in could fix. Plus, I need comfort first, then sound then aesthetics/build quality.
> 
> That makes me wonder. Not that this is a requirement of mine, but has anyone gotten really precise localization with earbuds? Like you could pinpoint where it was coming from inside your head?



I find some earbuds need to be angled with the stem sometimes in a 45 degree position rather than facing down to get optimal fit. Some buds also require me to put 2 layers of full foams to thicken the foam cover to get a better seal.

Some IEMs like the SMABAT series can be worn over ear or cable down, so that increases fit options. 

But gotta agree with you, it doesn't matter how heavenly an IEM or earbud sounds, if u can't get a good fit/comfort and can't use it for more than a few minutes, then the sound is kind of a moot point.

Earbuds are kinda different from IEMs in soundstage, IEMs are generally more in your head, whereas some earbuds can give an out of head positioning for soundstage, somewhat akin to headphones. I don't have any TOTL earbuds, but I would say in general some midfi IEMs have better details and imaging localization than the midfi earbuds I've tried. But maybe those that own TOTL earbuds can advise better.


----------



## Stereo Skunk

There are such a dizzying array of IEMs and earbuds now. It's so great to see so many different variations and solutions in the market, but it is so hard to narrow them down. Then there are those that were produced in history.

I don't want to search through all of them to find the perfect one. I won't even like it after I do that.


----------



## Sam L (Oct 31, 2020)

Stereo Skunk said:


> I didn't but I thought the sound quality issues were due to the earbud being off-axis to the ear canal. Not something that burn in could fix. Plus, I need comfort first, then sound then aesthetics/build quality.
> 
> That makes me wonder. Not that this is a requirement of mine, but has anyone gotten really precise localization with earbuds? Like you could pinpoint where it was coming from inside your head?


Completely agree that comfort is the primary concern. However, the beryllium driver in the em5 is ridiculously huge and actually changes quite a bit of burn-in. I wasn't a believer in burn-in until the em5. I would of returned it as well, if not for @ClieOS warning to not evaluate the em5 on initial hearing.

Most of what you are describing about sound being "off-axis to the ear canal" is common to all audio and is fundamentally described as Anatomical Transfer Function. More specifically for headphone/iem/buds users, Head Related Transfer Function (HRTF). Our ear anatomy creates all sorts of reflections, cancellations, spikes etc. I wrote in depth about my theories regarding pinna notch and pinna gain interactions with earbuds. (do a search for "pinna notch").

What do you mean by "precise localization"? Are you referring to the position of the instruments as rendered in playback (soundstage) or the position of the sound origin as produced by the drivers? The drivers in buds will never sound like the music is coming from inside your head, which is one of the appeals of earbuds -- they represent sound in a more headphone-like manner than iems. The other advantage of buds are that the soundstage is almost always more expansive than IEMs.


----------



## Sam L

povidlo said:


> Razer Blade Stealth (2017, gunmetal). It's like a Windows version of MacBook in terms of form factor.


Nice! I love that laptop. I asked because since you're on a windows laptop, I encourage you to install apo equalizer and the peace gui. Then you can easily load up either of these PEQ settings and try them out. 

v.1.1 target curve info is here.
v1.4 here.

Sadly I don't have v.1.3 (my laptop was stolen), which would be a good one to try out aside from the more neutral v1.4. I personally don't like v1.1 but it gives you a sense of the various differences apo and autoeq can make from the default tuning. 

If I can finish my weekend home care projects, I'll try to get my dev environment setup and start generating new target curve files.


----------



## Sam L

waynes world said:


> Yup. And Yup.
> 
> Well, I don't hate the monk plus, and I haven't heard the new MX500's, but I still stand behind my Yups!


well, ok, I need to reserve judgement on the monk plus since my wife thinks they are amazing. lol


----------



## povidlo

Sam L said:


> Nice! I love that laptop. I asked because since you're on a windows laptop, I encourage you to install apo equalizer and the peace gui. Then you can easily load up either of these PEQ settings and try them out.
> 
> v.1.1 target curve info is here.
> v1.4 here.
> ...


Thanks, mate.

QQ: on NW-A105, Wavelet AutoEq works fine when Tidal is streamed through UAPP.

On my laptop, I'm using Tidal application (without Roon or anything) straight up. It uses the external DAC in Exclusive Mode. Unfortunately Peace doesn't change the sound as result. Is there a workaround?


----------



## povidlo

New toy in!

Had to try these.... being a Canadian. 

Thanks to OGs for feedback regarding H185 in this thread from 2016.


----------



## rkw

Stereo Skunk said:


> I don't want to search through all of them to find the perfect one.


There is no "perfect one". It's all about compromise and personal preferences. You can even see in this thread that people purchase multiple earbuds and switch back and forth between them depending their mood and type of music.

If you try to pin down a single earbud based only on what you read, you will likely be disappointed. It is a process of discovering what works for you. Start with a few lower priced earbuds to get a sense what sound and fit you like, then you'll have a better idea of what direction you want to go for higher quality.


----------



## mkz

Sam L said:


> Nice! I love that laptop. I asked because since you're on a windows laptop, I encourage you to install apo equalizer and the peace gui. Then you can easily load up either of these PEQ settings and try them out.
> 
> v.1.1 target curve info is here.
> v1.4 here.
> ...



Thank you Sam. Downloaded and trying now.


----------



## LordZero

Someone can give a good EQ Preset for the Rose Masya MK2? Wanted something like the oratory1990’s list of EQ Presets, but can't find it.


----------



## Sam L

povidlo said:


> Thanks, mate.
> 
> QQ: on NW-A105, Wavelet AutoEq works fine when Tidal is streamed through UAPP.
> 
> On my laptop, I'm using Tidal application (without Roon or anything) straight up. It uses the external DAC in Exclusive Mode. Unfortunately Peace doesn't change the sound as result. Is there a workaround?





povidlo said:


> Thanks, mate.
> 
> QQ: on NW-A105, Wavelet AutoEq works fine when Tidal is streamed through UAPP.
> 
> On my laptop, I'm using Tidal application (without Roon or anything) straight up. It uses the external DAC in Exclusive Mode. Unfortunately Peace doesn't change the sound as result. Is there a workaround?


I also got the a105 solely to run wavelet and my compensation files. I like to keep things consistent across all my listening platforms - dap, laptop, desktop, phones. 

There is another user who had the same issue with exclusive mode. It seems to break compatibility. But honestly, the autoeq files have way more positive impact than running thing through exclusive mode.


----------



## Sam L

LordZero said:


> Someone can give a good EQ Preset for the Rose Masya MK2? Wanted something like the oratory1990’s list of EQ Presets, but can't find it.


You're not going to find much by way of eq settings for buds other than my work. I'm a big fan of oratory target and make compensation files for all of my iems to his target. My initial v1.1 was based off of his curve to a degree. It wasn't a good fit for buds. If you have the FR for the masya I can run it though autoeq since oratory target is already mapped out in the autoeq package.


----------



## Sam L (Oct 31, 2020)

mkz said:


> Thank you Sam. Downloaded and trying now.


Let me know what you think. By the way, you'll likely need to use a preamp value of - 7dB (or something in that neighborhood). 

I'm noting user observations to inform the changes that will go into v1.5. Thanks


----------



## lackOfInspiration (Oct 31, 2020)

Spent the day with Headroom MS16 because I had the feeling I was missing something. I found they were correctly tuned in the critical 1-10k area but couldn't manage to enjoy them.
I came to the conlusion that they are probably made to be used without foams (that is to say no seal at all). They are indeed very natural sounding all of a soudden. I used to audition those with dunuts foams which give me a pretty strong seal and it was a terrible mistake.
Looking at measurments from audiobudget I can see that the low frequency shelf extends way to far into the midrange and it is an indication that a lose fit is needed I think.

Looking closely it's a pretty wisely designed bud. Its openness is its main strentgh and allows a level of interraction with the outer ear that I've not experienced with any other set (and a good seal just destroyes the effect). It's also vital for the driver, closing the rear of the shell makes the sound unbearable.
I did a fun little experiment to convince my self the pinnea was playin a major role in the sound presentation of these earbuds: I occluded my left outer ear with a good quantity of cotton held in place by some tape. The cavum concha and ear canal are left free of course. (I kept my right ear unoccluded for comparaison). First I must say it makes averything sound so ridiculus everywhere around you. And well the sound of the MS16 is transformed in a noticable manner, becoming oddly midcentric. My other buds don't show such obvious transformations. Well I could have just partially hide my ears with my hands and obtain pretty muh the same result. But quarantine and boredome you all know...

In the end, with a little [40:150]hz bass bosst and a little taiming of the 5k peak (not easy to obtain, MS16 react HORRIBLY to EQ) it's just excellent. Expensive soundstage and very realistic. At higher volume, the tonal flaws in the 3k zone stand out though (and the shortcomings of the driver as well).

A similar design with a better driver could give something crazy. I'm waiting for the unheard-of openheart which seems equally open. We'll see!


----------



## Sam L

lackOfInspiration said:


> Spent the day with Headroom MS16 because I had the feeling I was missing something. I found they were correctly tuned in the critical 1-10k area but couldn't manage to enjoy them.
> I came to the conlusion that they are probably made to be used without foams (that is to say no seal at all). They are indeed very natural sounding all of a soudden. I used to audition those with dunuts foams which give me a pretty strong seal and it was a terrible mistake.
> Looking at measurments from audiobudget I can see that the low frequency shelf extends way to far into the midrange and it is an indication that a lose fit is needed I think.
> 
> ...


Awesome post! Gives me quite a few things to think through. 

Are you on any platforms that support autoeq files? Android 9+ or windows 10 laptop? @cenizas is partnering with me to build a database of earbud FR graphs from which I'll be building compensation files. I'd love your input. We can prioritize the buds you have in your possession.


----------



## lackOfInspiration

Sam L said:


> Awesome post! Gives me quite a few things to think through.
> 
> Are you on any platforms that support autoeq files? Android 9+ or windows 10 laptop? @cenizas is partnering with me to build a database of earbud FR graphs from which I'll be building compensation files. I'd love your input. We can prioritize the buds you have in your possession.



Unfortunately I use only Libre softwares so no gapps and no windows. Nevertheless I can easely translate the files you produce into something compatible with Vyper/pulseaudio-peq/Rockbox (the 3 solutions I use on my smartphone, laptop and DAP respectively).

But that's such an amazing work you two are doing. Great project really. I'd be super happy to help but I'm no sure how. I have no measurment rig for the moment (Although I'm working on it), so my EQ profiles are not worth much. That said the software I plan to use for my measurments should recieve the auto eq profile computation feature (Might investigate how feasible it is to implement the feature myself if I don't want to wait)

By the way, how are your measurent rigs like? I'm just amazed by the aptness of your graphs.


----------



## LordZero

Sam L said:


> You're not going to find much by way of eq settings for buds other than my work. I'm a big fan of oratory target and make compensation files for all of my iems to his target. My initial v1.1 was based off of his curve to a degree. It wasn't a good fit for buds. If you have the FR for the masya I can run it though autoeq since oratory target is already mapped out in the autoeq package.


 Thank you!
Unfortunately, I can't find fhe FR for the masya anywhere 
I have been searching a lot, even tried to ask in their Facebook.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

furyossa said:


> The huge price difference between RW-1000 and RW-2000. Both drivers use Titanium diaphragm, on the newer version they increase sensitivity from 110 to 112dB and lower the impedance from 24 to 16ohm, so more mobile-friendly. The frequency range is the same 10Hz-40kHz.
> I don’t see any significant improvement that would justify the $100 price difference


Do you claim that there is no difference in sounding?  is it the same level and presentation of the sound?


----------



## Sam L

lackOfInspiration said:


> Unfortunately I use only Libre softwares so no gapps and no windows. Nevertheless I can easely translate the files you produce into something compatible with Vyper/pulseaudio-peq/Rockbox (the 3 solutions I use on my smartphone, laptop and DAP respectively).
> 
> But that's such an amazing work you two are doing. Great project really. I'd be super happy to help but I'm no sure how. I have no measurment rig for the moment (Although I'm working on it), so my EQ profiles are not worth much. That said the software I plan to use for my measurments should recieve the auto eq profile computation feature (Might investigate how feasible it is to implement the feature myself if I don't want to wait)
> 
> By the way, how are your measurent rigs like? I'm just amazed by the aptness of your graphs.


pulseaudio has a module to import autoeq files. It's mentioned somewhere on the autoeq github. Are you on the Librem pureos phone? I thought that didn't come out yet?


----------



## Danneq

Stereo Skunk said:


> How the hell am I just finding out about this thread now???
> 
> I hated the Fiio EM5 and AT CM2000Ti.
> 
> ...




About the EM5, are they too small or too big for your ears? For smaller ears, something using the same shells as the Yuin PK series usually work well. For those with bigger ears earbuds using the Sennheiser MX 400/500 shells work well. Then there are custom shells. I'm familiar with some of them. Not the most recent ones. However, I got a pair of Fiio EM5 last week and the fit is perfect for my ears.

Not many earbuds are designed in a similar fashion as the Airpods. **** has released a cheap earbud with a similar design.

The earbud market is still small, even if more brands and models are coming out. Many of the current makers are Chinese and design is not always the focus. I love Indonesian DIY boutiques, and they almost always use standard MX shells. However the earbuds can sound great even if they look plain.


----------



## rprodrigues (Nov 1, 2020)

@Danneq

According to Fiio, EM5 has shells with diameter of 16.2mm.
They are already pretty small, however the general shape of the shells might be a problem.


----------



## rkw

Stereo Skunk said:


> The earbuds for me to beat right now are the Apple Airpods. Comfortable, wireless, sound great. They also seem to direct sound out of the "side" of the earbud toward the canal.


**** PT25 has that style of design, with sound directed to the side. Search the thread for reactions.
https://www.aliexpress.com/i/33009752274.html


----------



## vygas

jogawag said:


> I haven't auditioned Diy Shozy, but I think that is DIY versions of "Shozy Earbuds 1st Gen (2015)" reviewed on the following sites.
> https://kingrudi0504.blogspot.com/2015/12/shozy-earbud-unboxing-and-impressions.html
> 
> The shell shape is the same as "2005 - NTT DoCoMo Old Variant (16Ω) OEMed by Mitsubishi" that is named in the list of
> *HISTORY OF EARBUDS (Key Models Timeline)*.


IIRC, these are actually the Shozy Gen 1 (first Shozy bud), I bought these as soon as I found out they were available, they use the same drivers as the long white DoCoMo (which is what I assume the XB uses). I had an old photo on here of these and an OP139 in the case the Shozy Gen 1 and another one of the bud re-cabled, sadly the driver blew on those but what I can say is that they were very warm and, from what I read on a review on this thread a while back, felt like they were literally just an XB with a worse cable. Hope all this info helped . (P.S. the Shozy Gen 1 can either come with that Koss cable or a cable similar to the White Vido.)


----------



## Danneq

After reading about the EM5, my fingers got itchy and I could not contain myself when I found a seller in Poland on Ebay. There's nothing better than spending money you don't really have on things that you don't really need.

I received the EM5 last week and have been burning them in from thursday night until now. 70+ hours will have to do. Soundwise Fiio have hit a homerun with these. They are a bit distant sounding, like you are back at 10th row or something at a concert, and the soundstage is the widest and deepest I've heard in a pair of earbuds yet. The EM5 are definitely in my top 5 and perhaps even top 3 ever when it comes to earbuds. I have only compared them directly to Cypherus Zoomfred and Red Dragon. Zoomfred is much more in your face. They are almost like a mule-kick to your head with the energy and very deep bass. EM5 have got quite deep bass for a pair of earbuds. Between the Zoomfred and EM5 it's a tie. The presentation is very different. EM5 is more refined. While it's not exactly analytical, it has got more of that sort of character than the Zoomfred which is warmer sounding (while still having great instrument separation and detail).
Red Dragon is more refined than Zoomfred and less in your face. It beats both EM5 and Zoomfred easily, but EM5 really excells in the soundstage.

I'm using the balanced foams and when switching between the EM5 and Zoomfred I notice there's more sparkle in the Zoomfred's treble. I just plugged in my SWD2+ and they also have more sparkle even when I try to volume match them. So something like Zoomfred and SWD2+ might sound more lively than the EM5, but the EM5 are very engaging.



Spoiler: Picture


----------



## Danneq

rprodrigues said:


> @Danneq
> 
> According to Fiio, EM5 has shells with diameter of 16.2mm.
> They are already pretty small, however the general shape of the shells might be a problem.



For once, I'm lucky when it comes to fit. Sennheiser MX980/985 never worked great for me. Toneking/Musicmaker Ting didn't work either. Sennheiser MX shells are only okay if I use foams that stop them from slipping out from my ears.


----------



## cenizas

Got around to measuring the Yincrow RW9 and X6. Probably using the same driver, ie the vido driver, and slightly retuned.


----------



## moonnugs

Danneq said:


> After reading about the EM5, my fingers got itchy and I could not contain myself when I found a seller in Poland on Ebay. There's nothing better than spending money you don't really have on things that you don't really need.
> 
> I received the EM5 last week and have been burning them in from thursday night until now. 70+ hours will have to do. Soundwise Fiio have hit a homerun with these. They are a bit distant sounding, like you are back at 10th row or something at a concert, and the soundstage is the widest and deepest I've heard in a pair of earbuds yet. The EM5 are definitely in my top 5 and perhaps even top 3 ever when it comes to earbuds. I have only compared them directly to Cypherus Zoomfred and Red Dragon. Zoomfred is much more in your face. They are almost like a mule-kick to your head with the energy and very deep bass. EM5 have got quite deep bass for a pair of earbuds. Between the Zoomfred and EM5 it's a tie. The presentation is very different. EM5 is more refined. While it's not exactly analytical, it has got more of that sort of character than the Zoomfred which is warmer sounding (while still having great instrument separation and detail).
> Red Dragon is more refined than Zoomfred and less in your face. It beats both EM5 and Zoomfred easily, but EM5 really excells in the soundstage.
> ...



Yeppp totally agree with your review of the sound quality on the EM5! I absolutely loved them -- the dealbreaker for me was the shape/size. They refused to stay in my ears, and the ear-wings i have are super uncomfortable (even the smallest size) and dig into my ear bones. =[ really really bummed.


----------



## assassin10000

moonnugs said:


> Yeppp totally agree with your review of the sound quality on the EM5! I absolutely loved them -- the dealbreaker for me was the shape/size. They refused to stay in my ears, and the ear-wings i have are super uncomfortable (even the smallest size) and dig into my ear bones. =[ really really bummed.



Did you try wearing it with the cable over ear? Sometimes that works for people with difficult to fit earbuds and/or IEMs.


----------



## moonnugs

assassin10000 said:


> Did you try wearing it with the cable over ear? Sometimes that works for people with difficult to fit earbuds and/or IEMs.


Unfortunately, the shape of the buds and the stiffness of the cable didn't allow for over-ear wear =[ really bummed. I would recommend these to anyone (provided it fits, of course).


----------



## Sam L

cenizas said:


> Got around to measuring the Yincrow RW9 and X6. Probably using the same driver, ie the vido driver, and slightly retuned.


My comparison is very similar but in my sets there's some difference in the 2k region.


----------



## jogawag

moonnugs said:


> Yeppp totally agree with your review of the sound quality on the EM5! I absolutely loved them -- the dealbreaker for me was the shape/size. They refused to stay in my ears, and the ear-wings i have are super uncomfortable (even the smallest size) and dig into my ear bones. =[ really really bummed.



If "ear-wings" means the two bulges behind the earbud stems, you may have to swap the left and right sides of the earbuds and use them with patience.
If that's not the case and the 16.2mm diameter of the shell is too small, you may want to use the Silicon Ring (SENNHEISER 563605).


----------



## rprodrigues

@vygas

Thank you for your reply regarding the Shozy DIY.

You are not the first one who says that, sound wise,  Shozy DIY and Docomo, and thus Shozy XB, are related.
One user on EA group told me that the XB would be a better tuned Docomo.


Is the review you had read on the XB this one here?


----------



## cenizas

Sam L said:


> My comparison is very similar but in my sets there's some difference in the 2k region.


I actually have quite a bit of variance between L and R on my sets, averaged the two in my comparison, though when listening it's not very apparent. One side of my RW9 looks more similar to yours. At this price it's perfectly acceptable to me as long as it's not terribly obvious when listening. How's the channel matching on yours?


----------



## moonnugs

If I can only get one, the Shozy BK or the Astrotec Lyra Nature -- which one would you all recommend?


----------



## BrunoC

How about the older ST-10 ?


----------



## moonnugs

BrunoC said:


> How about the older ST-10 ?


The ST-10S (silver and black. i dont have/want a proper amp at the moment) is in my cart right now! Is there an advantage to the ST-10 vs the ST-10s?


----------



## InstantSilence

What are the best earphones as far as no fatiguing sound, an easy listen with clarity and good resolution? Cost no object? Earbuds only, not interested in iems


----------



## davjac84

Looking for a decent mmcx cable with mic/remote (1 or 3 button). I would like something that's not to stiff/springy, it should be supple. Not to heavy. Limited amount of microphonics. Some what durable if it's a more expensive one (over 100 bucks). 

I'm eying the cable that's included in Xelento Remote IEMS. Anyone that's tried it for earbuds, wearing them down and not back the ears? The connector is not straight buy I guess they should work fine anyway?
How about the feeling of the cable, it seems kind of springy? How's the remote?
Are there fakes out there on eBay or aliexpress?


Do you guys know of any other good cables to recommend? Budget 150$. Live in Europe/Sweden.


----------



## RikudouGoku

davjac84 said:


> Looking for a decent mmcx cable with mic/remote (1 or 3 button). I would like something that's not to stiff/springy, it should be supple. Not to heavy. Limited amount of microphonics. Some what durable if it's a more expensive one (over 100 bucks).
> 
> I'm eying the cable that's included in Xelento Remote IEMS. Anyone that's tried it for earbuds, wearing them down and not back the ears? The connector is not straight buy I guess they should work fine anyway?
> How about the feeling of the cable, it seems kind of springy? How's the remote?
> ...


Faaeal litz copper: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000400771561.html

Tri Through SPC: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001514590570.html

Kbear Rhyme UPOCC (dont think it is UPOCC): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001244591805.html

Kbear Limpid pure silver: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001244034183.html

Pick your poison.


----------



## furyossa (Nov 2, 2020)

@davjac84
If you looking for a bit better quality Xiaifan store has a nice offer


----------



## InstantSilence

Anyone?


----------



## jogawag (Nov 3, 2020)

InstantSilence said:


> What are the best earphones as far as no fatiguing sound, an easy listen with clarity and good resolution? Cost no object? Earbuds only, not interested in iems





InstantSilence said:


> Anyone?



I recommend Moondrop CHACONNE as TOTL earbuds for no fatiguing sound, clarity and good resolution, if you don't mind the earbuds being a bit heavy and used at home.
And, for a better fit I would recommend using the silicone ring (SENNHEISER 563605).


----------



## baskingshark

moonnugs said:


> The ST-10S (silver and black. i dont have/want a proper amp at the moment) is in my cart right now! Is there an advantage to the ST-10 vs the ST-10s?



The ST10S has a Black Gold and Black Silver version. They are differently tuned and have different impedances (ST10S Black Silver is easier to drive). So depends which ST10S u are referring to. I don't have the Black Silver one, but a few here who had both mentioned the Black Gold is better.

I have the ST10 (original) and the ST10S Black Gold, the Black Gold is superior when amped, but there's of course diminishing returns in this hobby. In terms of technicalities and subbass extension and tonality, the Black Gold is better. I found the original ST10 to be a bit cold in the mids and poorer in timbre. ST10S Black Gold can be almost basshead when amped in the subbass, and it has a less peaky upper mids/treble.
The ST10 (original) has better soundstage though, and is easier to drive. U really need an amp to drive the Black Gold, it sounds meh from a low powered source, so that's something to bear in mind since u don't want an amp as per your OP.


----------



## furyossa (Nov 2, 2020)

jogawag said:


> I recommend Moondrop CHACONNE for no fatiguing sound, clarity and good resolution, if you don't mind your earbuds being a bit heavy for your home use.
> And, for a better fit I would recommend using the silicone ring (SENNHEISER 563605).


Nice suggestion. Here are a few more add-ons for secure fit.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32443992286.html
These are also good for tuning. You can add a piece of foam in between the cover and rubber ring.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001300660742.html
For more secure fit.I tried these but I had to cut the part that covers the holes on the lid
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32990499815.html
This ring will increase the diameter but if you did not want that then maybe something like this can help https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32995236656.html
And of course, quality foams https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32753761717.html
Or maybe this "transparent"  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32881765999.html


----------



## superuser1

furyossa said:


> @davjac84
> If you looking for a bit better quality Xiaifan store has a nice offer


Which cables have you tried? Please let me know your impressions as I was interested in buying some from xiaofan. I tried talking to the seller to give a $2 discount but he didn't budge 
Hvala


----------



## furyossa (Nov 2, 2020)

superuser1 said:


> Which cables have you tried? Please let me know your impressions as I was interested in buying some from xiaofan. I tried talking to the seller to give a $2 discount but he didn't budge
> Hvala


No more of those cables in stock. There were two cables one with red-black and one with blue-black wires, very nicely knitted.
The price was about $30 each. I ordered them before the new year but they didn't arrive.


----------



## moonnugs

baskingshark said:


> The ST10S has a Black Gold and Black Silver version. They are differently tuned and have different impedances (ST10S Black Silver is easier to drive). So depends which ST10S u are referring to. I don't have the Black Silver one, but a few here who had both mentioned the Black Gold is better.
> 
> I have the ST10 (original) and the ST10S Black Gold, the Black Gold is superior when amped, but there's of course diminishing returns in this hobby. In terms of technicalities and subbass extension and tonality, the Black Gold is better. I found the original ST10 to be a bit cold in the mids and poorer in timbre. ST10S Black Gold can be almost basshead when amped in the subbass, and it has a less peaky upper mids/treble.
> The ST10 (original) has better soundstage though, and is easier to drive. U really need an amp to drive the Black Gold, it sounds meh from a low powered source, so that's something to bear in mind since u don't want an amp as per your OP.


Thank you so much for the info! They’re gonna be about $100 during the 11.11 sale so maybeeee I’ll pick them up and amp them with my BTR5?


----------



## davjac84

RikudouGoku said:


> Faaeal litz copper: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000400771561.html
> 
> Tri Through SPC: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001514590570.html
> 
> ...


None of those are with mic/remote. Thanks anyway.


----------



## davjac84

furyossa said:


> @davjac84
> If you looking for a bit better quality Xiaifan store has a nice offer


If I'm not mistaken they have no cables with inline mic/remote.


----------



## davjac84

superuser1 said:


> Which cables have you tried? Please let me know your impressions as I was interested in buying some from xiaofan. I tried talking to the seller to give a $2 discount but he didn't budge
> Hvala


Do you want a cable with an inline mic or not? I'm after one with, the suggestions I got where cables without...


----------



## furyossa (Nov 3, 2020)

InstantSilence said:


> What are the best earphones as far as no fatiguing sound, an easy listen with clarity and good resolution? Cost no object? Earbuds only, not interested in iems


There is no such thing as the best earphone, also a higher price does not dictate a better product.
Each of us hears differently and each suggestion is a purely subjective opinion of each of us, so even if someone recommends a good model,it does not necessarily mean that it will suit you.


----------



## furyossa (Nov 3, 2020)

Speaking of recommendations for 11.11 here are a few models that are characterized by extended freq. ranges, higher impedance, different driver types etc
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32862767390.html (great extension, graphene-coated, mobile-friendly and nice looking buds)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32821448115.html (probably is the same driver as the previous model, but this model is good for MMCX mod  )
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001623082745.html (another graphene-coated 400ohm, it seems to me that this is a DIY driver which sound really good. looks great)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001589119116.html (probably most affordable beryllium coated earphone)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001426990724.html (affordable, low sensitivity, mic-option)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32879372064.html (a bit serious specs, this one require amping)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32860725175.html (affordable, old-school with nice specs)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001340017241.html (metal shell, mic-option, Japanese biological diaphragm)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001547137732.html (looks promising but the only thing that worries me are too many openings on the shell. Hmmm...)


----------



## rprodrigues

@furyossa 

Have you already auditioned the first one?
It indeed looks very nice and if it sounds as nice as it looks, it is a no brainer...


----------



## furyossa (Nov 3, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> @furyossa
> 
> Have you already auditioned the first one?
> It indeed looks very nice and if it sounds as nice as it looks, it is a no brainer...


I already have a pair that looks similar. My earphones use a driver made by Foster Electric and I think it uses a fiber biological diaphragm.
I'm a bit more interested in high-impedance models. Model from 3rd link above use 400ohm graphene driver which is IMHO one of the best DIY drivers out there.
I use the same driver in combination with the metal shell. Wood will add a bit more warmth to the overall sound.
My current favorite from the list above is the model #6. Maybe I'll order it on 11.11.


----------



## povidlo

furyossa said:


> Speaking of recommendations for 11.11 here are a few models that are characterized by extended freq. ranges, higher impedance, different driver types etc
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32862767390.html (great extension, graphene-coated, mobile-friendly and nice looking buds)
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32821448115.html (probably is the same driver as the previous model, but this model is good for MMCX mod  )
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001623082745.html (another graphene-coated 400ohm, it seems to me that this is a DIY driver which sound really good. looks great)
> ...


I'm eyeing this one, looks like their latest model.
Graphene, mmcx, high impedance. 

Doesn't look like it's going to be on sale though.


----------



## rprodrigues (Nov 3, 2020)

@furyossa

but....

what improvements a graphene driver with high impedance would bring to the table?  Better low and high extensions? Faster bass response? Are they better than berillyum ones?


----------



## BrunoC

I have the 1st one (Graphene) and I don't recommend. No bass, thin sound. It's also the champion earbud for sound leakeage - incredible. 
It's called the 'Old Graphene' earbud. It's like 3 years old. EMX500, Vido, RY4X, RY4S eats it for breakfast.


----------



## furyossa

BrunoC said:


> I have the 1st one (Graphene) and I don't recommend. No bass, thin sound. It's also the champion earbud for sound leakeage - incredible.
> It's called the 'Old Graphene' earbud. It's like 3 years old. EMX500, Vido, RY4X, RY4S eats it for breakfast.


Probably is not well-tuned. Vido, EMX500 is older models, also some old-school drivers sound very good.


----------



## furyossa (Nov 3, 2020)

povidlo said:


> I'm eyeing this one, looks like their latest model.
> Graphene, mmcx, high impedance.
> 
> Doesn't look like it's going to be on sale though.


These are the prices of 400ohm driver (20-30$). For the wood shell with mmcx. (~10$), and 4-core mmcx cable (8-10$).
So the price of assembled earphones, in this case for the 400ohm driver is not so bad. For 600ohm beryllium is a different story.


----------



## furyossa (Nov 3, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> @furyossa
> 
> but....
> 
> what improvements a graphene driver with high impedance would bring to the table?  Better low and high extensions? Faster bass response? Are they better than berillyum ones?


With high impedance you can get cleaner sound, lower distortion, and can benefit from the balanced output. Also not harsh sound when you increase volume level.
400ohm is easier to drive than 600ohm. Both drivers are different in terms of sound signature, graphene has more balanced sound, beryllium has authoritative bass and smoother treble. The only thing they have in common is that both drivers are really good and  the price is completely correct


----------



## rprodrigues

furyossa said:


> With high impedance you can get cleaner sound, lower distortion, and can benefit from the balanced output. Also not harsh sound when you increase volume level.
> 400ohm is easier to drive than 600ohm. Both drivers are different in terms of sound signature, graphene has more balanced sound, beryllium has authoritative bass and smoother treble. The only thing they have in common is that both drivers are really good and  the price is completely correct




Thank you!
I will try to order both a graphene and a beryllium based earbuds during this 11.11.

Would you suggest a good budge beryllium earbuds?


----------



## wskl

rprodrigues said:


> Thank you!
> I will try to order both a graphene and a beryllium based earbuds during this 11.11.
> 
> Would you suggest a good budge beryllium earbuds?



There is a budget 32 ohm beryllium earbud, available in MX500 and wooden shell.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001589119116.html

No idea if it is any good though.


----------



## furyossa

wskl said:


> There is a budget 32 ohm beryllium earbud, available in MX500 and wooden shell.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001589119116.html
> 
> No idea if it is any good though.


I already posted that link in the list above. Based on @BrunoC 's comments sometimes it happens that the earphones assembled from DIY parts by the seller himself can
be a risky choice. There is no quality control, which is in a way understandable given the low price. On the other hand, we also have cases where more expensive parts are used, so the price is higher, which does not mean that quality control has been performed.
My suggestion is for those who want to try these so-called "exotic" DIY drivers to buy these separately. In the package, you will get also pair of tuning foams and MX500 or PK shell. The only thing that you need is a cable which you can buy in the same store or some other place. There are several such shops on Ali, where the price for these parts can vary. NSC Audio Store is a reliable store and has a very diverse range of DIY parts.
This way you can save money and at the same time avoid the previous problem with bad tuning.


----------



## DBaldock9

furyossa said:


> I already have a pair that looks similar. My earphones use a driver made by Foster Electric and I think it uses a fiber biological diaphragm.
> I'm a bit more interested in high-impedance models. Model from 3rd link above use 400ohm graphene driver which is IMHO one of the best DIY drivers out there.
> I use the same driver in combination with the metal shell. Wood will add a bit more warmth to the overall sound.
> My current favorite from the list above is the model #6. Maybe I'll order it on 11.11.





furyossa said:


> These are the prices of 400ohm driver (20-30$). For the wood shell with mmcx. (~10$), and 4-core mmcx cable (8-10$).
> So the price of assembled earphones, in this case for the 400ohm driver is not so bad. For 600ohm beryllium is a different story.




Back in April of last year, I made this post about assembling a set of earbuds, using 400-Ω Graphene drivers -
.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-14924894
.
They sound good, although the cable I used has turned a bit green where it wraps around my ears (I wear pretty much all of my earphones & earbuds with the cables over the ear).


----------



## furyossa

DBaldock9 said:


> Back in April of last year, I made this post about assembling a set of earbuds, using 400-Ω Graphene drivers -
> .
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-14924894
> .
> They sound good, although the cable I used has turned a bit green where it wraps around my ears (I wear pretty much all of my earphones & earbuds with the cables over the ear).


Yup. I remember that post. Same here, Over-ear is the way to go 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15463161
They sound very good. that's why I called them  "*Hellboy*"  
I can drive them easily on LG G7, while beryllium (600ohm) requires a little more juice


----------



## lackOfInspiration

Currently working on making a measurment set up (hardware stores are closed because of quarantine hence it's a lot of impro). I ambition to simulate outer ear in addition to ear canal (well simulate is a grand word I'm doing it for fun more than anything else). This is what I have for the moment with my TY32Ohm :




It matches what I drew auditioning frequency sweeps pretty closely from 1k. But the the low are just so off. There is no tight seal involved so no clue why it's that elevated. My audio interface is responsible for the roll off below 60hz (it's very well extended in reality).

Auto-eqing from such measurments is off the table obviously. I'm much more confident in building EQ using my own ears and frequency sweeps. At this point measuring seems like gambling to me. I'll have to get way more serious if I want things worth sharing.


----------



## jasswolf

Any recommendations for wireless or TWS earbuds? Difficult thing to search for without drowning in in-ear options.


----------



## furyossa

jasswolf said:


> Any recommendations for wireless or TWS earbuds? Difficult thing to search for without drowning in in-ear options.


TWS earbuds? I never saw a better solution than this


----------



## moonnugs

furyossa said:


> TWS earbuds? I never saw a better solution than this


Oh crap. Then can I do this to any earbud that you wear over-the-ear and also have the mmxc connectors? Or do I need ones with the 2pin?


----------



## assassin10000 (Nov 3, 2020)

jasswolf said:


> Any recommendations for wireless or TWS earbuds? Difficult thing to search for without drowning in in-ear options.



Some MMCX earbuds can be used with TWS type adapters.





As far as actual TWS that are earbud style, the only ones I can think to recommend are the Sabbat X12 Ultra (better than the older X12 Pro) or the Samsung Buds Live.






The Buds Live may sound a bit thinner and lack warmth compared to many earbuds though. Ymmv.



moonnugs said:


> Oh crap. Then can I do this to any earbud that you wear over-the-ear and also have the mmxc connectors? Or do I need ones with the 2pin?



Your choice. Either can work.


----------



## rprodrigues

@furyossa, @DBaldock9

Impressive DIY work you both did!
Your buds are indeed impressive. 

DBaldock9, it seems your buds ended up being a little bit expensive. 
Are they worth it?


A questions for both, please...
Are the PK (diy also) buds too behind the high impedance graphene drivers in terms of bass and sub bass, treble extension and overall clarity?


----------



## furyossa (Nov 3, 2020)

Uh...I hope no one will ask: And what about ANC?
This is my current choice. The very impressive driver they pack in it and app is also a cool addition


----------



## moonnugs

assassin10000 said:


> Some MMCX earbuds can be used with TWS type adapters.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice!! I’m about to order the Smabat buds on 11.11. How do you like that TRN adapter?


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> Are the PK (diy also) buds too behind the high impedance graphene drivers in terms of bass and sub bass, treble extension and overall clarity?


PK1 "red film" is also a "top-level" DIY driver. For me, it has a better low end than graphene, but not treble and clarity.


----------



## assassin10000 (Nov 4, 2020)

moonnugs said:


> Nice!! I’m about to order the Smabat buds on 11.11. How do you like that TRN adapter?



I like them. One is the original BT20 (with EBX), the other is the BT20S (with ST-10).

BT20S is good for dynamic IEMs and earbuds. Not good for high sensitivity BA IEMs. Has water/sweat resistance via a coating. Longer battery and has APT-X, which is good with my Android phone.


I'd probably get the newest BT20S Pro instead, given interchangeable soft ear hooks and charging case. Also may hiss less IIRC.



I broke the ear hooks but ended up modding them to be more comfortable than stock. Changed to soft ear hook style with straight connectors. Lets me use them with center type MMCX earbuds and not just offset style as previously pictured.







furyossa said:


> PK1 "red film" is also a "top-level" DIY driver. For me, it has a better low end than graphene, but not treble and clarity.



It depends on the tuning and which graphene driver I guess. 

I find the redfilm has really good clarity and treble. But I did tune mine towards clarity/vocals, without sub-bass roll off and also removing the mid-bass/lower mids bloat.


----------



## superuser1

davjac84 said:


> Do you want a cable with an inline mic or not? I'm after one with, the suggestions I got where cables without...


Definitely without a mic... I would never use iems for calls as I prefer earbuds.


----------



## furyossa (Nov 4, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> It depends on the tuning and which graphene driver I guess.
> I find the redfilm has really good clarity and treble. But I did tune mine towards clarity/vocals, without sub-bass roll off and also removing the mid-bass/lower mids bloat.


Yup. It depends on the tuning of course. Don't get me wrong, "RedFilm" has no problem with treble and clarity but I think the graphene has a slightly cleaner sound especially when the sound is amplified.
All 3 drivers (150ohm RedFilm, 400ohm graphene. 600ohm beryllium) have great performance, it is very difficult to say which is better because each of these has a specific note that elevates them in its own unique way.
Anyway...at the end of the day, everything depends on personal taste and current mood


----------



## rprodrigues (Nov 4, 2020)

There are too many options for this upcoming 11.11.
I would order the 150ohm redfilm drivers for pk shells but they are out off stock on Aliexpress. Now, 400 ohm graphene drivers seem to be a good choice, even thought I have to move to bigger shells.

@assassin10000
Have you already tested either Shozy XB or the diy sr2? If so, would you consider the 150ohm redfilm driver a sidegrade for them?

@furyossa
Do you know of a 14.8 mm driver with a sound signature similar to the Tp16?


----------



## Sam L

moonnugs said:


> Oh crap. Then can I do this to any earbud that you wear over-the-ear and also have the mmxc connectors? Or do I need ones with the 2pin?


You can't do this unless you are @ClieOS.     of if you have good soldering skills and experience taking apart earbuds.


----------



## Sam L

lackOfInspiration said:


> Currently working on making a measurment set up (hardware stores are closed because of quarantine hence it's a lot of impro). I ambition to simulate outer ear in addition to ear canal (well simulate is a grand word I'm doing it for fun more than anything else). This is what I have for the moment with my TY32Ohm :
> 
> It matches what I drew auditioning frequency sweeps pretty closely from 1k. But the the low are just so off. There is no tight seal involved so no clue why it's that elevated. My audio interface is responsible for the roll off below 60hz (it's very well extended in reality).
> 
> Auto-eqing from such measurments is off the table obviously. I'm much more confident in building EQ using my own ears and frequency sweeps. At this point measuring seems like gambling to me. I'll have to get way more serious if I want things worth sharing.


That graph looks like you're off to a good start. My early graphs were pretty horrid. In fact, I prob should go back and remove them. 

If you haven't already done so, be sure to at least calibrate your sound card and, if possible, your mic.


----------



## Sam L

assassin10000 said:


> Some MMCX earbuds can be used with TWS type adapters.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I re-purchased the buds live because the call quality is so good.


----------



## davjac84

superuser1 said:


> Definitely without a mic... I would never use iems for calls as I prefer earbuds.


Who have said anything about iems?
I have no suggestion then if you want without mic 😛


----------



## assassin10000

rprodrigues said:


> There are too many options for this upcoming 11.11.
> I would order the 150ohm redfilm drivers for pk shells but they are out off stock on Aliexpress. Now, 400 ohm graphene drivers seem to be a good choice, even thought I have to move to bigger shells.
> 
> @assassin10000
> ...



AE hasn't had redfilm drivers for most of the year. They may not ever get them back in stock at this rate.

I haven't heard the Shozy XB, but I did own the single vent 16ohm SR2 from Chitty's store on AE as well as purchasing the DIY SR2 driver from them. I found them both to be tier 2/3 of 5, after the 100-150+ hours of burn-in which was recommended. Ok but nothing special. Bass could be EQ'd to ok levels but I found mids/highs lacking in quantity and resolution. 

The redfilm seems better for everything lol. Sub-bass extension, clarity/transparency, vocals, treble and mids quantity and quality, treble extension, etc. They are on completely different levels IMO.


----------



## Safinn (Nov 5, 2020)

Hey, just stumbled across this thread after searching for some earbuds (not IEMs) for a while now. The seem to very rare to come by these days.
I'v been using apple earbuds with a third party usb-c adapter for my phone which is finicky and the controls (skip, go back) don't work properly and when they broke I got cheap apple clones that are usb-c but mic and sound are awful.

Im looking for wired earbuds with a good mic as I use them to take work calls on the laptop, controls are optional. Also a good USB-C adapter suggestion would be great as I believe good USB-C earbuds are extremely hard to find. My budget would be £50.

For sound, I'd lean towards being neutralish, treblesensitive and possibly a little midcentric (very beginner in audio ). Music genres include Jazz, House and Pop mainly but my taste varies a lot on mood.

After reading through many pages in this thread I think im further confused


----------



## baskingshark

Safinn said:


> Hey, just stumbled across this thread after searching for some earbuds (not IEMs) for a while now. The seem to very rare to come by these days.
> I'v been using apple earbuds with a third party usb-c adapter for my phone which is finicky and the controls (skip, go back) don't work properly and when they broke I got cheap apple clones that are usb-c but mic and sound are awful.
> 
> Im looking for wired earbuds with a good mic, controls are optional. Also a good USB-C adapter suggestion would be great as I believe good USB-C earbuds are extremely hard to find. My budget would be £50.
> After reading through many pages in this thread I think if further confused



My go to USB C adapter is the tempotec sonata HD Pro. No frills, good sounds, no noise, low output impedance, quite neutral. Doesn't get hot too. It can't power more demanding earbuds though. I got mine at $34 USD in the june aliexpress sale.

For the earbuds, it would be good if u could state your music genre preferences eg neutralish, V shaped, midcentric, basshead/bass averse, or treblehead/treblesensitive + preferred music genres, so the community can advise better.


----------



## Safinn (Nov 5, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> My go to USB C adapter is the tempotec sonata HD Pro. No frills, good sounds, no noise, low output impedance, quite neutral. Doesn't get hot too. It can't power more demanding earbuds though. I got mine at $34 USD in the june aliexpress sale.
> 
> For the earbuds, it would be good if u could state your music genre preferences eg neutralish, V shaped, midcentric, basshead/bass averse, or treblehead/treblesensitive + preferred music genres, so the community can advise better.



Thanks for the usb-c adapter recommendation. I'll check it out and make sure it can power the earbuds I end up deciding on.
For sound, I'd lean towards being neutralish, treblesensitive and possibly a little midcentric (very beginner in audio ). Music genres include Jazz, House and Pop mainly but my taste varies a lot on mood.
I'll add this to my previous post as well.


----------



## baskingshark

Safinn said:


> Thanks for the usb-c adapter recommendation. I'll check it out and make sure it can power the earbuds I end up deciding on.
> For sound, I'd lean towards being neutralish, treblesensitive and possibly a little midcentric (very beginner in audio ). Music genres include Jazz, House and Pop mainly but my taste varies a lot on mood.
> I'll add this to my previous post as well.



Check out these stuff:
- NiceHCK ME80 (seems to be out of production, but maybe some less famous sellers or second hand shops may have it)
- BK2
- FAAEAL Datura Pro

These are all easy to drive, neutral/midecentric sets. They all don't need powerful sources.


----------



## wskl

baskingshark said:


> Check out these stuff:
> - NiceHCK ME80 (seems to be out of production, but maybe some less famous sellers or second hand shops may have it)
> - BK2
> - FAAEAL Datura Pro
> ...



One of the requirements is that he wants the earbud to have a mic


----------



## baskingshark

wskl said:


> One of the requirements is that he wants the earbud to have a mic



Ah sorry, missed that part.

Well, he can probably get an aftermarket mic cable for the BK2 I suppose. Sorry @Safinn , if it is mic stuff, you might need to ask the rest, as I always choose the non mic option. I tend to avoid mic cables as they are a potential source of failure down the line, and sometimes they add resistance to the side of the cable the mic is on. Though I can see they may be useful for calls I suppose.


----------



## rprodrigues

assassin10000 said:


> AE hasn't had redfilm drivers for most of the year. They may not ever get them back in stock at this rate.
> ..
> The redfilm seems better for everything lol. Sub-bass extension, clarity/transparency, vocals, treble and mids quantity and quality, treble extension, etc. They are on completely different levels IMO.



It seems that there are some available on Taobao.

Drivers (thanks to @jogawag):
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=572623588063
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=569489997267

Some built buds:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=583333830831
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=579861486028
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=579178564169 (mmcx version)


----------



## furyossa (Nov 5, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Ah sorry, missed that part.
> 
> Well, he can probably get an aftermarket mic cable for the BK2 I suppose. Sorry @Safinn , if it is mic stuff, you might need to ask the rest, as I always choose the non mic option. I tend to avoid mic cables as they are a potential source of failure down the line, and sometimes they add resistance to the side of the cable the mic is on. Though I can see they may be useful for calls I suppose.


You just forgot to mention how "good" the microphone sound  quality is  .
Mostly all the microphones on these cables are cheap and not only is the sound quality poor but they also deteriorate quickly.
BK2 +  2-3 spare cables with mic (or without) in this case sounds like a reasonable choice to me because no matter what happens to the cable you can always change it.


----------



## RikudouGoku

2020-11-05: Review for the NiceHCK ME80 is up: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-me80.23837/reviews#item-review-24688

And K´s earphone Bell-LB from A to B: Bass quality is pretty bad.


----------



## vygas

rprodrigues said:


> There are too many options for this upcoming 11.11.
> I would order the 150ohm redfilm drivers for pk shells but they are out off stock on Aliexpress. Now, 400 ohm graphene drivers seem to be a good choice, even thought I have to move to bigger shells.
> 
> @assassin10000
> ...


Not 100% sure but, I have heard that the Z&W Panda PK2 sounds similar to the TP16, just brighter and with a lil bit less soundstage. I don't have a pair of the TP16 to compare it with though.


----------



## rprodrigues (Nov 5, 2020)

vygas said:


> Not 100% sure but, I have heard that the Z&W Panda PK2 sounds similar to the TP16, just brighter and with a lil bit less soundstage. I don't have a pair of the TP16 to compare it with though.




You might be right according to this review.
Thank you!

Since I love my TP16, I will grab a Panda PK2. My small ears will love a 'TP16 in a small capsule'..


----------



## coflaes

Hi guys, i really need to buy a nicehck me80, where i can fin them? thank u!


----------



## RikudouGoku

coflaes said:


> Hi guys, i really need to buy a nicehck me80, where i can fin them? thank u!


https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B07TC33XB3


----------



## rprodrigues

coflaes said:


> Hi guys, i really need to buy a nicehck me80, where i can fin them? thank u!



They are retired and already are out of stock on Aliexpress, but it is possible that you find them in some smaller online stores or even local shops.


@RikudouGoku shared a link to them on Amazon Japan (https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B07TC33XB3)


----------



## fogside

what 100$ buds 500-600ohm are best for extreme music?


----------



## Sam L

baskingshark said:


> My go to USB C adapter is the tempotec sonata HD Pro. No frills, good sounds, no noise, low output impedance, quite neutral. Doesn't get hot too. It can't power more demanding earbuds though. I got mine at $34 USD in the june aliexpress sale.
> 
> For the earbuds, it would be good if u could state your music genre preferences eg neutralish, V shaped, midcentric, basshead/bass averse, or treblehead/treblesensitive + preferred music genres, so the community can advise better.


thx for for recommendation. the sonata hd pro is in my cart for 11/11


----------



## rkw

coflaes said:


> Hi guys, i really need to buy a nicehck me80, where i can fin them? thank u!


 the Head-Fi disease, "I really need to buy"


----------



## furyossa

fogside said:


> what 100$ buds 500-600ohm are best for extreme music?


*TY Hi-Z HP-650* (TY Hi-Z has a very nice offer in range 32, 150, 300, 400, 600ohm)
*TONEKING TO600* (As the previous model U can choose models with different impedance)
*YINMAN 600ohm* (only 3 models: two models are 150ohm and this one is 600ohm )
The last model is the DIY model and it depends on how much money you want to spend because both earphones use the same driver (600ohm beryllium) 
You can choose between the assembled version *FENGRU Diy KunLun S600* (this is a *model* with pure silver cable) or 
this combo (*shell+driver*) and *TRN pure silver cable *and build earphones by yourself


----------



## furyossa

rkw said:


> the Head-Fi disease, "I really need to buy"


It's a life or death situation


----------



## RikudouGoku

Since we are getting closer to 11/11, what are your top 3 recommendations? 

For me its:

1. Yincrow X6 
2. NiceHCK diy MX500
3. NiceHCK ME80


----------



## Sam L

fogside said:


> what 100$ buds 500-600ohm are best for extreme music?


curious, what will you be driving them with?


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Since we are getting closer to 11/11, what are your top 3 recommendations?
> 
> For me its:
> 
> ...



that is a good list.


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> curious, what will you be driving them with?


I drive my "Bery 600ohm" with iFi Zen DAC in single-ended mode. But balanced mode will be great but I need a 4.4mm cable. 
It's funny because I have 10 cables 2.5mm and I forget to buy at least one 2.5mm to 4.4mm adapter


----------



## furyossa (Nov 5, 2020)

RikudouGoku said:


> Since we are getting closer to 11/11, what are your top 3 recommendations?
> 
> For me its:
> 
> ...


In what price range?

_This is my top 3 (around $100)_
1. *ShoonTH ESEP-01BLE*
2. *TY Hi-Z HP-650*
3. *YINMAN 150ohm *(NEW)

_And top 3 (around $50)_
1. *Musicmaker MrZ Tomahawk Z*
2. *T-Music V5s*
3. *YINMAN 150ohm *(OG)

_And lastly, top 3 (around $20) _
1. *HE150 150ohm*
2. *TY Hi-Z 150ohm*
3.* MEMT R7*


----------



## dissociativity (Nov 6, 2020)

Anyone tried Sennheiser IE1 earbuds? can't find info on them, but can get them for relatively cheap.
They literaly have 'IE1' in large print on one side, it seems there's info on pretty much every 'mx' series earbud, but not these.

Also got these Yamaha buds coming, no idea how they are or even their model


----------



## cenizas

dissociativity said:


> Anyone tried Sennheiser IE1 earbuds? can't find info on them, but can get them for relatively cheap.
> They literaly have 'IE1' in large print on one side, it seems there's info on pretty much every 'mx' series earbud, but not these.
> 
> Also got these Yamaha buds coming, no idea how they are or even their model


Any link for the yamahas? They look interesting


----------



## LordZero

Anyone, had problems with taking schocks from mmcx cables? Is there any fix?

I know is probabbly from using the cable with the fiio e10k on my laptop, while charging, but only happens with this RX cable from " CEMA Electro acousti Store Store "


----------



## dissociativity

cenizas said:


> Any link for the yamahas? They look interesting


importing them from zenmarket, yahoo auctions japan, I imagine they're entirely discontinued and at least a decade old like these sennheisers.


----------



## dissociativity (Nov 6, 2020)

LordZero said:


> Anyone, had problems with taking schocks from mmcx cables? Is there any fix?
> 
> I know is probabbly from using the cable with the fiio e10k on my laptop, while charging, but only happens with this RX cable from " CEMA Electro acousti Store Store "


is your laptop made of metal? metal devices often have a low level current running through the chassis when plugged in, it's a pain in the ass.
try it while the laptop is unplugged and report back?
Next time get a thinkpad or other business laptop not made of aluminium cans probably if you wanna avoid this, I /think/ there are specialized externally powered usb extension cables for better grounding, but a cheap powered hub and then a usb DAC on that may work.


----------



## fogside

Sam L said:


> curious, what will you be driving them with?


ibasso dx160


----------



## TwoPalms

Poisonous green snake. On a par with bery 400ohm


----------



## baskingshark

LordZero said:


> Anyone, had problems with taking schocks from mmcx cables? Is there any fix?
> 
> I know is probabbly from using the cable with the fiio e10k on my laptop, while charging, but only happens with this RX cable from " CEMA Electro acousti Store Store "



I don't think it is safe to use the stuff while charging, unless it is a dedicated desktop amp. Do u still get shocked when not charging concurrently?



TwoPalms said:


> Poisonous green snake. On a par with bery 400ohm



How's the sound like?
Any harsh upper mids? And how's the subbass extension?

TIA!


----------



## furyossa

TwoPalms said:


> Poisonous green snake. On a par with bery 400ohm


More info? Bery 400ohm?


----------



## TwoPalms

furyossa said:


> More info? Bery 400ohm?


DIY beryllium 400 ohm


----------



## TwoPalms

baskingshark said:


> I don't think it is safe to use the stuff while charging, unless it is a dedicated desktop amp. Do u still get shocked when not charging concurrently?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No harsh upper mids, smooth, maybe the best part of this buds. Subbass is also good.


----------



## furyossa

TwoPalms said:


> DIY beryllium 400 ohm


Hmmm... first time hear about that one. I know only about DIY 600ohm beryllium and DIY drivers with impedance 400-500ohm are use graphene coat.
Did I miss something?


----------



## furyossa (Nov 6, 2020)

TwoPalms said:


> No harsh upper mids, smooth, maybe the best part of this buds. Subbass is also good.


Can you compare it with Tomahawk? I'm interested in Tomahawk, it has a good discount on the 11.11 sale.
Are you recommend these or the "Green Goblin" ones?


----------



## TwoPalms

furyossa said:


> Hmmm... first time hear about that one. I know only about DIY 600ohm beryllium and DIY drivers with impedance 400-500ohm are use graphene coat.
> Did I miss something?


U are right 400ohm is graphene coat


----------



## TwoPalms

furyossa said:


> Can you compare it with Tomahawk? I'm interested in Tomahawk, it has a good discount on the 11.11 sale.
> Are you recommend these or the "Green Goblin" ones?


In my memory, tomahawk is bright, fast, not enogh bass. Tomahawk and Green are different. For me Green is better. Good build & very soft cable.


----------



## cenizas

TwoPalms said:


> In my memory, tomahawk is bright, fast, not enogh bass. Tomahawk and Green are different. For me Green is better. Good build & very soft cable.


What's the sound signature? Warm? How's the staging?


----------



## TwoPalms

cenizas said:


> What's the sound signature? Warm? How's the staging?


Sound signature neutral to warm, decent soundtage.Compared to 32ohm willsound mk2. Better imaging than mk2, no midbass bleed,  more upfront mids on green.


----------



## rprodrigues (Nov 6, 2020)

Any idea about the diameter of the shells for TO200, TO400s, and TO600?

I've asked two sellers on AE, including Toneking store, and both told me they have 15.4mm, but I think it's the diameter of the drivers.


----------



## furyossa (Nov 6, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> Any idea about the diameter of the shells for TO200, TO400s, and TO600?
> 
> I've asked two sellers on AE, including the Timeline store, and both told me they have 15.4mm, but I think it's the diameter of the drivers.


Yup is 15.4mm driver + plastic cover = > 16mm. But the main problem is not the diameter of the driver but the shell shape which is characteristic for all TONEKING buds.
I have a fit issue with MX500 (15.4mm drivers). The only shell for this type of driver which fits nicely in my ear is DP100 type and some metal shells with "concave arc" shape.
See this post where I explained what the problem was with different shapes. Even 14.8mm driver with "convex arc" shape like Nicehck EBX can cause a fit issue


----------



## rprodrigues (Nov 6, 2020)

furyossa said:


> ...
> I have a fit issue with MX500 (15.4mm drivers). The only shell for this type of driver which fits nicely in my ear is DP100 type and some metal shells with "concave arc" shape.
> ...




What is weird in my case is that my Tomahawk don't give me big fit issues whereas the ISN Rambo II, which have shells with about 16mm, have the worst fit no matter which and how many foams I put on them. They are far from my best fit yet (diy pk1 from Nicehck).


----------



## moonnugs

TwoPalms said:


> Poisonous green snake. On a par with bery 400ohm



whoaaa nice, whats the model name/make of these?


----------



## davjac84

TwoPalms said:


> Poisonous green snake. On a par with bery 400ohm


How's the fit with these "elongated" buds? 😋


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> What is weird in my case is that my Tomawank don't give me big fit issues whereas the ISN Rambo II, which have shells with about 16mm, have the worst fit no matter which and how many foams I put on them. They are far from my best fit yet (diy pk1 from Nicehck).


Yes, the MX500 cover has a 16.8mm  diameter. Rambo II has a custom non-standard cover and smaller driver.
The problem with Rambo II is that the stem is quite far from the driver and is long that together with the MMCX connector it has more weight outside the ear 
and thus pulling the buds out of the ear, while with Toneking, the ear (Antitragus) carries the heavier part of the shell, ie. balance is better.


----------



## jogawag

moonnugs said:


> whoaaa nice, whats the model name/make of these?



TONEKING Dendroaspis Viridis
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001640523103.html


----------



## moonnugs

furyossa said:


> Yup is 15.4mm driver + plastic cover = > 16mm. But the main problem is not the diameter of the driver but the shell shape which is characteristic for all TONEKING buds.
> I have a fit issue with MX500 (15.4mm drivers). The only shell for this type of driver which fits nicely in my ear is DP100 type and some metal shells with "concave arc" shape.
> See this post where I explained what the problem was with different shapes. Even 14.8mm driver with "convex arc" shape like Nicehck EBX can cause a fit issue


What metal buds would you recommend that have the "concave arc"?


----------



## furyossa

moonnugs said:


> What metal buds would you recommend that have the "concave arc"?


On this DIY Earbuds thread, you can find some of my DIY mods where I did shell analysis. 
One of the more interesting models with MMCX is this and for the cable version, model from part 2
But you need to know that almost every custom shell needs some workaround to make it "perfect"  and really worth every effort


----------



## moonnugs

furyossa said:


> On this DIY Earbuds thread, you can find some of my DIY mods where I did shell analysis.
> One of the more interesting models with MMCX is this and for the cable version, model from part 2
> But you need to know that almost every custom shell needs some workaround to make it "perfect"  and really worth every effort


Oh wow, thank you so much for the links. I’ll look through the DIY mods now


----------



## TwoPalms

davjac84 said:


> How's the fit with these "elongated" buds? 😋


MX500 shell fits me well


----------



## Alex.Grimm

TwoPalms said:


> Tomahawk and Green are different. For me Green is better. Good build & very soft cable.



what do you mean by green, could you send me a link?


----------



## TwoPalms

Alex.Grimm said:


> what do you mean by green, could you send me a link?


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001640523103.html


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Nov 7, 2020)

TwoPalms said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001640523103.html


Its toneking, oh you mean tomahawk, sorry


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Del


----------



## davjac84

TwoPalms said:


> MX500 shell fits me well


OK, are they more like MX500 than Tonekings other buds?
I'm not really thinking about the part that you shove in to the ear, but more the depth of the buds. They potrude very much compared to most other buds. Don't they get kind of heavy and fall out or so? I guess that the hooks help with that, without them not so good I bet?


----------



## rprodrigues

Are Toneking TO400s still a good choice at the price of $55? 

Can they face newer graphene earbuds at the same price bracket?


----------



## furyossa (Nov 7, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> Are Toneking TO400s still a good choice at the price of $55?
> 
> Can they face newer graphene earbuds at the same price bracket?


I don't have the TO400s to compare but looking to spec. TO400s has a better extension on both ends and 10db higher sensitivity so easier to drive.
You have to take into account that it is tuned by Tonekng. For $53 this is nice.
Maybe it's better to wait and see how this new "green" model turned out. The driver, however, uses modern technology.


----------



## theresanarc

Has anyone ever re-cabled Qian39s? Is it easy/do-able? I'm thinking of ordering a few extra pairs and doing it because the included wire kinda sucks, the one on mine starting splitting so I wouldn't mind re-cabling with a shorter wire. Any improvement in sound quality would also be a nice bonus.


----------



## furyossa

theresanarc said:


> Has anyone ever re-cabled Qian39s? Is it easy/do-able? I'm thinking of ordering a few extra pairs and doing it because the included wire kinda sucks, the one on mine starting splitting so I wouldn't mind re-cabling with a shorter wire. Any improvement in sound quality would also be a nice bonus.


Try to ask on DIY Earbuds thread.


----------



## DBaldock9

theresanarc said:


> Has anyone ever re-cabled Qian39s? Is it easy/do-able? I'm thinking of ordering a few extra pairs and doing it because the included wire kinda sucks, the one on mine starting splitting so I wouldn't mind re-cabling with a shorter wire. Any improvement in sound quality would also be a nice bonus.



One of the first earbuds that I re-wired, back in March of 2017, was a set of QianYun Qian39.
I used some costly soft Copper wire - but have found some less expensive wire since then, that should work, as well.
.


----------



## rprodrigues

DBaldock9 said:


> One of the first earbuds that I re-wired, back in March of 2017, was a set of QianYun Qian39.
> I used some costly soft Copper wire - but have found some less expensive wire since then, that should work, as well.
> .



What a beautiful set!
Did you get any sound improvement?

Would you mind sharing links to such cables if they are from AE?


----------



## furyossa (Nov 8, 2020)

DBaldock9 said:


> One of the first earbuds that I re-wired, back in March of 2017, was a set of QianYun Qian39.
> I used some costly soft Copper wire - but have found some less expensive wire since then, that should work, as well.
> .


Beautiful 4-core cable. It's ideal for buds. Another chip and very good cable for IEM and buds (6core) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33001822584.html
I really regret not taking a couple of pieces, but because of the prices I thought it was below average 
Your cable is quite reminiscent of these two pairs
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000097502378.html (good discount)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000297658368.html
This is a good wire for DIY https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32612774761.html
I have a 4-core version which I used for balanced cable.


----------



## DBaldock9

rprodrigues said:


> What a beautiful set!
> Did you get any sound improvement?
> 
> Would you mind sharing links to such cables if they are from AE?





furyossa said:


> Beautiful 4-core cable. It's ideal for buds. Another chip and very good cable for IEM and buds (6core) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33001822584.html
> I really regret not taking a couple of pieces, but because of the prices I thought it was below average
> Your cable is quite reminiscent of these two pairs
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000097502378.html (good discount)
> ...



The wire was $45 from Chitty's Store, but their price has gone up to $68.87 - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000248433914.html
.
Yuming Store has it for $47.41 - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32947805095.html


----------



## Nec3

Any earbuds not meant to be used with foams? So far a quick search has lead to the Headroom MS16 and that's pretty much it. VE Zen is way out of my price bracket.


----------



## baskingshark

Nec3 said:


> Any earbuds not meant to be used with foams? So far a quick search has lead to the Headroom MS16 and that's pretty much it. VE Zen is way out of my price bracket.



Some earbuds like the SMABATs can be used with silicone covers (I find the silicone covers make the sound less warm/bassy), YMMV.
I know some friends also use earbuds without any covers or foams, just the earpiece it self.


----------



## furyossa

DBaldock9 said:


> The wire was $45 from Chitty's Store, but their price has gone up to $68.87 - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000248433914.html
> .
> Yuming Store has it for $47.41 - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32947805095.html


Smells like quality. This is the standard for Chitty's Store, always 10-20$ above the rest.


----------



## lackOfInspiration

Nec3 said:


> Any earbuds not meant to be used with foams? So far a quick search has lead to the Headroom MS16 and that's pretty much it. VE Zen is way out of my price bracket.


MS16 indeed, and I believe you can expect all models that share the same designe to perform very well (if not best) without foams. I got the openheart recently and they are definitly meant to be used this way. (By the way they are cheap, well built and sound good. Not sure if I'd recommend them over the MS16 yet but worth mentioning)


----------



## lackOfInspiration

Sam L said:


> That graph looks like you're off to a good start. My early graphs were pretty horrid. In fact, I prob should go back and remove them.
> 
> If you haven't already done so, be sure to at least calibrate your sound card and, if possible, your mic.


Aha, you should keep them available for documentation sake.

Soundcard calibration done, but I have no reference to calibrate my mic. It has a pretty obvious bass roll off but hard to quantify actually :/ 
The rig is getting better though, I found the capsule I wired was in fact cardioid, and proximity effect was responsible for the bass elevation. An omni insted and it's gone!


----------



## Sam L

For version 1.5 target curve, I'll be generating 2 versions -- a bass edition and a more lean/neutral profile. I have yet to plot out the neutral version.

Graphs and files for the Fiio EM5 are here. @cenizas let me know what you think!


----------



## Sam L

v.1.5 for the K's Nameless here.

For those of you who have used my compensation files before, can you test this out and let me know what you think? My Nameless was in my backpack that was stolen.  
So I haven't tested this out yet. I have another incoming. I'll generate a neutral version of v1.5 if someone wants to try that version out.


----------



## povidlo (Nov 9, 2020)

@Sam L tried 1.4 made for me80. Liked it a lot. First, I was surprised bass gets a reduction since me80 is not bassy to begin with. But it was enjoyable to listen to soft rock/ jazz late at night when I'm bass-sensitive.


----------



## Sam L (Nov 9, 2020)

povidlo said:


> @Sam L tried 1.4 made for me80. Liked it a lot. First, I was surprised bass gets a reduction since me80 is not bassy to begin with. But it was enjoyable to listen to soft rock/ jazz late at night when I'm bass-sensitive.


Good to hear that it was positive for you. 1.4 was more focused on tweaking upper mids and treble. You're right in that it seems counterintuitive to lower bass on the me80, particularly because it's not a bass heavy earbud. However, the upper mids are recessed a bit in the stock tuning, so in raising that up, the overall sound profile ends up not being as bass enemic as the compensation file might suggest.

***edit***
to clarify, with the me80's there is good earbud pinna gain from 1k to 3k by +2db, close to my +3dB ideal for buds, but the subsequent 4k notch is the area I consider overly recessed. I also corrected for a huge notch at 9k.

For those that follow my buds target curve experiments, I'm finding that the 10k region should be around -3db from 1k. In the iem world, Tyll (innerfidelity fame, now retired) historically describes 10k as being matched with 1k as a rule of thumb of sorts. I'm finding that with earbuds overall the FR graph translates to much more energy when compared with IEM graphs. This is one of the reasons why I use a much less aggressive pinna gain, as well as introducing the peak earlier at 2k.


----------



## Sam L

povidlo said:


> @Sam L tried 1.4 made for me80. Liked it a lot. First, I was surprised bass gets a reduction since me80 is not bassy to begin with. But it was enjoyable to listen to soft rock/ jazz late at night when I'm bass-sensitive.


version 1.5 for the Nicehck ME80 is up.

here


----------



## Sam L

povidlo said:


> @Sam L tried 1.4 made for me80. Liked it a lot. First, I was surprised bass gets a reduction since me80 is not bassy to begin with. But it was enjoyable to listen to soft rock/ jazz late at night when I'm bass-sensitive.


One more interesting observation with 1.4 and the me80, as another user noted, the sound stage becomes noticeably expansive to my ears, which was a pleasant surprise since the me80 is already so well tuned. Sad to see it discontinued.


----------



## Sam L

ok, one more:

Version 1.5 bass edition for the *Nicehck b40* here.


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> One more interesting observation with 1.4 and the me80, as another user noted, the sound stage becomes noticeably expansive to my ears, which was a pleasant surprise since the me80 is already so well tuned. Sad to see it discontinued.


You are a very busy man, keep up the good work. This is a really interesting topic even for people that not use EQ.
Any effort to improve the sound whether it is through modding or with EQ should be appreciated, as we appreciate this hobby.
Modification can eliminate some omissions in order to enable the driver to function in the best possible conditions, which of course affects the improvement of the sound, 
while EQ represents the final touch ie. "cherry on top" 
I will like to see in the future your EQ mastery for some buds like FAAEAL Datura Pro, BGVP DX5, HE150PRO, Tingo TG-38, RY4S Plus


----------



## cenizas

furyossa said:


> You are a very busy man, keep up the good work. This is a really interesting topic even for people that not use EQ.
> Any effort to improve the sound whether it is through modding or with EQ should be appreciated, as we appreciate this hobby.
> Modification can eliminate some omissions in order to enable the driver to function in the best possible conditions, which of course affects the improvement of the sound,
> while EQ represents the final touch ie. "cherry on top"
> I will like to see in the future your EQ mastery for some buds like FAAEAL Datura Pro, BGVP DX5, HE150PRO, Tingo TG-38, RY4S Plus


I have a bunch of those, I'll send Sam the measurements when I'm free and I'm sure he'll be happy to generate the eq files for those.


----------



## Sam L (Nov 9, 2020)

cenizas said:


> I have a bunch of those, I'll send Sam the measurements when I'm free and I'm sure he'll be happy to generate the eq files for those.


Yep, thank you @cenizas.

I'm partnered with @cenizas to try and expand coverage. His measurement rig matches mine closely.

Anyone with a request, just include @cenivas in the post. There's a good chance he might have a measurement. If not, he lives in a part of the world where earbuds abound. Sadly, very few earbud fans in the SF Bay Area.


----------



## furyossa (Nov 9, 2020)

cenizas said:


> I have a bunch of those, I'll send Sam the measurements when I'm free and I'm sure he'll be happy to generate the eq files for those.


That would be really great. Thanks.
I left some of these earbuds aside because I’m not exactly thrilled with the sound signature. The last three pairs that I mentioned earlier are fine.
Datura Pro has a beautiful look and fantastic build quality but tuning is below average. This driver can do it better for sure.
BGVP DX5, the same story. Everything is amazing, package and accessories, build, ergonomics, driver characteristics but internal tuning makes me cry.
This definitely needs some shell modifications. I posted some images here.


----------



## talponne

Has anyone tried both BK2 and Smabat M2 Pro and can do a short comparison?

I own BK2 and I like them but I feel they need some sub bass and I would not mind some extra resolution.

Thank you!


----------



## Sam L

talponne said:


> Has anyone tried both BK2 and Smabat M2 Pro and can do a short comparison?
> 
> I own BK2 and I like them but I feel they need some sub bass and I would not mind some extra resolution.
> 
> Thank you!


If you're on an android 9+ phone or on windows 10, I have a compensation file that helps some. I have a new target curve, v1.5, but haven't generated a file yet for the bk2. It's a bud I listen to frequently, so I'll make a file soon.


----------



## talponne (Nov 9, 2020)

Sam L said:


> If you're on an android 9+ phone or on windows 10, I have a compensation file that helps some. I have a new target curve, v1.5, but haven't generated a file yet for the bk2. It's a bud I listen to frequently, so I'll make a file soon.


I don’t own either.
I use them daily with a BTR1K connected to my iphone for short listening sessions, calls and videos and when I get home I use them on the playstation.
That’s why I would like a pair of buds which don’t really need EQ

Edit
I don’t want to leave the wrong impression because these buds are great and I like them but I would like an extra pair with some sub bass and searching I came across the M2 Pro which seem attractive.


----------



## Sam L

version 1.5 target curve
ISN Rambo 2 files here

I'm only a couple songs in, but so far I can run this on wavelet at 100% strength. I'm really proud of this most recent effort, really amazing sound. Almost as much of a stark contrast (for the better) as the compensation files for the Monk lite 120 ohm (another one I'm waiting for the replacement to arrive.) I'll make a v1.5 for the Monk Lite 120ohm later tonight.


----------



## Sam L

talponne said:


> I don’t own either.
> I use them daily with a BTR1K connected to my iphone for short listening sessions, calls and videos and when I get home I use them on the playstation.
> That’s why I would like a pair of buds which don’t really need EQ
> 
> ...


I don't have the m2 but the s-10s black/silver have monstrous bass and sub bass (for an earbud.) I'm almost positive the m2 pro will have some good bass extension.


----------



## Sam L (Nov 10, 2020)

furyossa said:


> You are a very busy man, keep up the good work. This is a really interesting topic even for people that not use EQ.
> Any effort to improve the sound whether it is through modding or with EQ should be appreciated, as we appreciate this hobby.
> Modification can eliminate some omissions in order to enable the driver to function in the best possible conditions, which of course affects the improvement of the sound,
> while EQ represents the final touch ie. "cherry on top"
> I will like to see in the future your EQ mastery for some buds like FAAEAL Datura Pro, BGVP DX5, HE150PRO, Tingo TG-38, RY4S Plus


Agreed! I would also add that the "cherry on top" can also be the easier mod to implement for many users. The good news is that most of the earbuds I've built compensation files for respond well to eq'ing.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Nov 9, 2020)

I really like the Willsound MK2 *very airy extended treble* and great bass, the mids are present and lively as well.

I wanted to order another MK2, but the MK32 was recommended to try.
Any comparisons/recommendations between the two?

Or, any other recommendations on some other earbuds easily found on Amazon USA for less than $100 (give or take) that may be a bit of an upgrade?
The shipping charge and time to ship to USA for Willsound is kind of a buzzkill.


----------



## jogawag (Nov 9, 2020)

talponne said:


> I don’t own either.
> I use them daily with a BTR1K connected to my iphone for short listening sessions, calls and videos and when I get home I use them on the playstation.
> That’s why I would like a pair of buds which don’t really need EQ
> 
> ...



I have a BK2 and a smabat ST-10.

The BK2 has more bass if you use double foam (donut foam on top of full foam).

And you can replace the included silver-plated cable with a cheap OFC (copper) MMCX cable for even more bass.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32974773971.html

Edit:
Or you can replace the included silver-plated cable with a cheap OCC (copper) MMCX cable for even more bass.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32977455076.html


----------



## Sam L

jogawag said:


> I have a BK2 and a smabat ST-10.
> 
> The BK2 has more bass if you use double foam (donut foam on top of full foam).
> 
> ...


You mean more bass than with single foam but not more bass than the smabat, right?


----------



## jogawag

Sam L said:


> You mean more bass than with single foam but not more bass than the smabat, right?



Yes, BK2 with double foam has not more bass than the smabat st-10.


----------



## Sam L

Blueshound24 said:


> I really like the Willsound MK2 *very airy extended treble* and great bass, the mids are present and lively as well.
> 
> I wanted to order another MK2, but the MK32 was recommended to try.
> Any comparisons/recommendations between the two?
> ...


Yeah, they shipping cost and time is a friction point with all the wonderful buds in Indonesia and the Philippines. 

I've been eyeing the Willsound brand for some time.


----------



## jasswolf

So any final word on the Yincrow X6 vs the RW-9, @Sam L ?


----------



## Sam L (Nov 9, 2020)

jasswolf said:


> So any final word on the Yincrow X6 vs the RW-9, @Sam L ?


ummm, man that's a tough one, especially since I don't listen to either without compensation.

But here goes:
- rw9 bass is a smidge tighter and faster. but this is comparatively speaking, i don't consider either to have fast, tight bass.
- x6, though graphs with less bass, actually feels more present because it's also a tad warmer overall compared to the rw9.
- x6 is more mid forward than rw9
- x6 soundstage is more intimate than rw9. rw9 sounds a tad, tad bit more airy but both don't really have much treble extension.
- the rw9 sounds more iem-like and the x6 is a well tuned earbud sound profile.

** edit **
rw9 bass can be overwhelming at times. Bassheads will much prefer the rw9.


----------



## Sam L

Sam L said:


> ummm, man that's a tough one, especially since I don't listen to either without compensation.
> 
> But here goes:
> - rw9 bass is a smidge tighter and faster. but this is comparatively speaking, i don't consider either to have fast, tight bass.
> ...


Honestly, if I had to choose just one, I'd go with the x6 but only because it's rare to find a cheap bud that maintains a good, warm, analogue-ish sound without sounding overly sloppy in the lower mids. Compared to the x6, the rw9 sounds more v-shaped.


----------



## Sam L

Sam L said:


> ummm, man that's a tough one, especially since I don't listen to either without compensation.
> 
> But here goes:
> - rw9 bass is a smidge tighter and faster. but this is comparatively speaking, i don't consider either to have fast, tight bass.
> ...


One more thing about the bass. There's more on the rw9 but the lower end balance is better in the X6 so the bass on the X6 comes across as more refined and coherent


----------



## Ausemere

NiceHCK DIY MX500 (black shell / silver wire) *versus* QianYun Qian25. Both around the same price on Ali 11/11. I can't decide between those 2 (not many reviews for either)! Can someone who has listened to both help me decide? I mostly listen to rock, metal and a little j-pop. Some gaming (multiplayer FPS) as well, but that's secondary to the music.


----------



## baskingshark

talponne said:


> Has anyone tried both BK2 and Smabat M2 Pro and can do a short comparison?
> 
> I own BK2 and I like them but I feel they need some sub bass and I would not mind some extra resolution.
> 
> Thank you!



The SMABAT M2 Pro has 2 tuning modules, one gives it a neutralish bright tuning, the other is more V shaped. The neutralish bright tuning version has quite a neutral and anemic subbass, so let's leave it out of the comparison here.

With amping, the SMABAT M2 Pro on the V shaped tuning module, with full foams (not the silicone cover provided), and with the standard driver (no aftermarket drivers soldered in), has better subbass extension than the BK2, a warmer and thicker sound and a slightly better timbre. Soundstage I think the M2 Pro is also better, technicalities maybe BK2 edges it a bit. For a earbud, the V shaped tuning module gives quite ok subbass extension, but it still won't beat the SMABAT ST10 and ST10S Black Gold in subbass extension/quantity. These latter 2 SMABATs also have better technical performance than BK2. Also with a lower powered source, the subbass extension isn't that great on the V shaped module of the M2 Pro, so best to get an adequately powered source.


----------



## jasswolf

Ausemere said:


> NiceHCK DIY MX500 (black shell / silver wire) *versus* QianYun Qian25. Both around the same price on Ali 11/11. I can't decide between those 2 (not many reviews for either)! Can someone who has listened to both help me decide? I mostly listen to rock, metal and a little j-pop. Some gaming (multiplayer FPS) as well, but that's secondary to the music.


I'm looking now and I'm seeing the Qian25 for a third of the price of the MX500 from NiceHCK... it's like $4 versus $12 (USD).

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32823569005.html

This is the listing you're looking at for the MX500, yes? There's a lot of similar listings to this, because MX500 is a shell, but if you look carefully you'll notice these are other brands and driver variations.

From what I understand of Qian earbuds, they're all fairly dated, and IEM/earbud DD driver tech has moved past a lot of what they have to offer.

Consider instead the Yincrow X6 up against the 2019 NiceHCK MX500. I have the latter, and highly recommend it, though I recognise it has noticeable roll off in the lower bass frequencies. That will eat into your experience with some EDM-heavy pop, and perhaps gaming.

The X6 will tidy that up a lot, but it will lose a bit elsewhere as a result. Buying both might prove to be excellent value, just don't expect oodles of detail if you're searching for footsteps in a shooter, especially if you're using a sub-standard amp.


----------



## talponne

jogawag said:


> I have a BK2 and a smabat ST-10.
> 
> The BK2 has more bass if you use double foam (donut foam on top of full foam).
> 
> ...


I’ve tried using double foam but the sound gets muffled and I prefer using just a layer.


----------



## talponne

baskingshark said:


> The SMABAT M2 Pro has 2 tuning modules, one gives it a neutralish bright tuning, the other is more V shaped. The neutralish bright tuning version has quite a neutral and anemic subbass, so let's leave it out of the comparison here.
> 
> With amping, the SMABAT M2 Pro on the V shaped tuning module, with full foams (not the silicone cover provided), and with the standard driver (no aftermarket drivers soldered in), has better subbass extension than the BK2, a warmer and thicker sound and a slightly better timbre. Soundstage I think the M2 Pro is also better, technicalities maybe BK2 edges it a bit. For a earbud, the V shaped tuning module gives quite ok subbass extension, but it still won't beat the SMABAT ST10 and ST10S Black Gold in subbass extension/quantity. These latter 2 SMABATs also have better technical performance than BK2. Also with a lower powered source, the subbass extension isn't that great on the V shaped module of the M2 Pro, so best to get an adequately powered source.


So I should look at these instead.
I like the idea of having removable cable because I can add a microphone and I would choose a lower impedance because I will not use a great amp for them.
I have a Mojo but I will use these with a BTR1K or iphone dongle.
I may upgrade later to BTR5 or Qudelix.

Thanks guys!


----------



## baskingshark

talponne said:


> So I should look at these instead.
> I like the idea of having removable cable because I can add a microphone and I would choose a lower impedance because I will not use a great amp for them.
> I have a Mojo but I will use these with a BTR1K or iphone dongle.
> I may upgrade later to BTR5 or Qudelix.
> ...



The SMABAT ST10S Black Gold needs good amping to scale better. @DBaldock9 helped our community by measuring the impedance of the ST10S Black Gold and it was apparently 300 ohm instead of the advertised 150 ohm! It sounds flat and lifeless from a lower powered source.

ST10 (regular) doesn't really need amping per se, but it does scale better with more powerful sources.


----------



## talponne

baskingshark said:


> The SMABAT ST10S Black Gold needs good amping to scale better. @DBaldock9 helped our community by measuring the impedance of the ST10S Black Gold and it was apparently 300 ohm instead of the advertised 150 ohm! It sounds flat and lifeless from a lower powered source.
> 
> ST10 (regular) doesn't really need amping per se, but it does scale better with more powerful sources.


So the ST10 or I should pick a pair of airpods like.
Does the ST10 worth the 2x price in comparison with BK2?


----------



## baskingshark

talponne said:


> So the ST10 or I should pick a pair of airpods like.
> Does the ST10 worth the 2x price in comparison with BK2?



ST10 is like 3 - 4x the price of the BK2. As usual, the higher you go up, there are more diminishing returns for earbuds.

I can't really quote a figure, but ST10 is for sure in a higher league than BK2. ST10 has better soundstage and technicalities than the BK2. It has 2 ways to be worn too (over ear and cable down). Maybe ST10 has a bit weaker timbre, it is a bit cold in the mids, but it has much better subbass extension/quantity than the BK2, the ST10's subbass is very atypical for a earbud.


----------



## mochill

baskingshark said:


> The SMABAT ST10S Black Gold needs good amping to scale better. @DBaldock9 helped our community by measuring the impedance of the ST10S Black Gold and it was apparently 300 ohm instead of the advertised 150 ohm! It sounds flat and lifeless from a lower powered source.
> 
> ST10 (regular) doesn't really need amping per se, but it does scale better with more powerful sources.


St10s black gold is 300ohm 😯


----------



## talponne

baskingshark said:


> ST10 is like 3 - 4x the price of the BK2. As usual, the higher you go up, there are more diminishing returns for earbuds.
> 
> I can't really quote a figure, but ST10 is for sure in a higher league than BK2. ST10 has better soundstage and technicalities than the BK2. It has 2 ways to be worn too (over ear and cable down). Maybe ST10 has a bit weaker timbre, it is a bit cold in the mids, but it has much better subbass extension/quantity than the BK2, the ST10's subbass is very atypical for a earbud.


I like what you wrote here 
You described the signature that I enjoy.

Lately I prefer cable down because for me it feels more comfortable and that's one of the reasons I'm selling my IEMs.

Now that I've stepped in another price region I will kindly ask about some more buds on my list:
Yincrow RW 1000 Bass
TONEKING Dendroaspis


----------



## Sam L

This is how the Yincrow X6 should sound.


----------



## jao29

talponne said:


> I like what you wrote here
> You described the signature that I enjoy.
> 
> Lately I prefer cable down because for me it feels more comfortable and that's one of the reasons I'm selling my IEMs.
> ...



+1 on this. Currently interested in both the Toneking Dendroaspis and the Yincrow RW 2000 because I enjoyed the toneking tp16 and yincrow rw9. I hope seasoned earbud lovers can shed a light on these 2 models as they are on the more expensive side of earbuds.


----------



## DBaldock9 (Nov 10, 2020)

talponne said:


> So I should look at these instead.
> I like the idea of having removable cable because I can add a microphone and I would choose a lower impedance because I will not use a great amp for them.
> I have a Mojo but I will use these with a BTR1K or iphone dongle.
> I may upgrade later to BTR5 or Qudelix.
> ...





baskingshark said:


> The SMABAT ST10S Black Gold needs good amping to scale better. @DBaldock9 helped our community by measuring the impedance of the ST10S Black Gold and it was apparently 300 ohm instead of the advertised 150 ohm! It sounds flat and lifeless from a lower powered source.
> 
> ST10 (regular) doesn't really need amping per se, but it does scale better with more powerful sources.



When I'm listening to my Smabat ST-10s (Gold/Black), or any of my other earbuds, they're usually connected to -
1.) Walnut F2 [Modded: 1x Dual OPA627AU, 4x MUSES8920E, 2x SSM2142SZ], operating as a USB DAC for my work PC
2.) FiiO BTR5, operating as a USB DAC for my work PC & as BT DAC for my LG V30
3.) Radsone ES100, operating as a USB DAC for my work PC & as BT DAC for my LG V30
4.) Loxjie P20 [Modded: 2x Reflektor 6N3P-DR Tubes (1980 NOS), 4x Dual OPA627AU Op-Amps], home amp w/input from Topping D70 DAC
5.) Walnut F1 [Modded: 1x ADA4627-1BRZ, 2x SSM2142], "home" amp w/input from Topping D70 DAC
6.) LG V30, directly connected to my phone, every once in a while

I like how they sound, with any of these connections.


----------



## dissociativity

jao29 said:


> +1 on this. Currently interested in both the Toneking Dendroaspis and the Yincrow RW 2000 because I enjoyed the toneking tp16 and yincrow rw9. I hope seasoned earbud lovers can shed a light on these 2 models as they are on the more expensive side of earbuds.


as someone recently says, the rw-2000 is basically just the rw-1000 re-labelled for higher price.


----------



## jogawag (Nov 10, 2020)

dissociativity said:


> as someone recently says, the rw-2000 is basically just the rw-1000 re-labelled for higher price.



As ClieOS recently says:
rw-2000 is great. In short, it is the re-evolution of the rw-1000 low-frequency version, which is a popular weapon.
In terms of cost/performance ratio, the rw-1000 is of course much higher. The rw-2000 is more like a combination of the analysis of the original rw-1000 and the low-frequency version of the rw-1000's pop tuning after the comprehensive re-evolution. The original two versions of the rw-1000 are actually very good, so the rw-2000 can not be regarded as a leapfrogging type of rapid progress but more of the perfection of various details. But it also doesn't feel like any significant shortcomings compared to other flagships in its price range. The workmanship is also slightly better than the rw-1000.


----------



## furyossa (Nov 10, 2020)

jogawag said:


> As ClieOS recently says:
> In terms of cost/performance ratio, the rw-1000 is of course much higher. The rw-2000 is more like a combination of the analysis of the original rw-1000 and the low-frequency version of the rw-1000's pop tuning after the comprehensive re-evolution. The original two versions of the rw-1000 are actually very good, so the rw-2000 can not be regarded as a leapfrogging type of rapid progress but more of the perfection of various details. But it also doesn't feel like any significant shortcomings compared to other flagships in its price range. The workmanship is also slightly better than the rw-1000.


Impedance, the color of the shell, and cable.
I agree, there are some changes but let's be honest, twice the price???
Same thing with TinHiFi P1 vs P2. At least they are dealing with a more complex driver that requires more attention. And the shape of the IEM itself is different, as are the cables.


----------



## dissociativity

my bad, I fail to remember names at the best of times, my will to convince people to not spend money on deminishing returns is stronger than the one to remember names


----------



## furyossa

dissociativity said:


> my bad, I fail to remember names at the best of times, my will to convince people to not spend money on diminishing returns is stronger than the one to remember names


I really respect that when the company wants to improve the previous series of products. That means they listen to their users. A great example is Moondrop with the Kanas model and Kanas Pro, also Shuoer with the Tape model. The question is why they did not raise prices drastically for their popular models? They could but ...
Experimenting and constantly releasing new models can be a big expense for some.


----------



## cenizas

Couple of recommendation for anyone shopping on taobao this 1111, not particularly good deals on them, but worth picking up if you're shipping other stuff already.

Hana DIY: 
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...1KSP9&id=601978706007&ns=1&abbucket=13#detail




An earbud with actual pinna gain, the rise is a bit late but magnitude is good, overall good technicalities, a bit pricey but well tuned and good technical performance puts this at upper second tier or lower first tier in my book. Gives a lot of flagship qualities at midrange price.

HE 150PRO:



I don't known why this has been on my shelf forgotten for so long, it's an awesome sounding bud. I remember considering it slightly honky, but I think that was just me not being used to an earbud with pinna gain, there does seem to be some chamber resonance though, so maybe that contributed as well. The graph is beautiful and it sounds as good as it looks, pinna gain positions mids correctly, if not a bit forward and aggressive, technicalities are not bad, good treble extension and surprisingly good bass extension and good punch. Awesome staging due to the open back design, might be one of the biggest stages in terms of raw size for earbuds, but unlike flagships like the EM5 and Turandot, it lacks the sense of scale to back up the stage size. Idiot me dropped it and damaged the left driver right after listening to it again and measuring it, but I like it enough that I'll be ordering another


----------



## furyossa

cenizas said:


> Couple of recommendation for anyone shopping on taobao this 1111, not particularly good deals on them, but worth picking up if you're shipping other stuff already.
> 
> Hana DIY:
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...1KSP9&id=601978706007&ns=1&abbucket=13#detail
> ...


HE150Pro is really great earbuds. I'm still wondering if the same driver was used in the original version and the pro version. For me, HE150 sounds better than HE150Pro.
If both models use the same driver then it is probably a problem in the shell. HE150Pro has a similar shell as MS16 buds. But cavity can look like this and that is a major problem, or maybe HE150 driver works better with MX500 shell. Penon Audio Store doesn't have them in stock at the moment, but they can be found here.
I damaged my HE150 (MX500 shell) trying to disassemble them because I decided for some reason to change the cables.  The original version has cheap cables but does not twist, unlike the pro model.
I hope to see the compensation file soon


----------



## theresanarc

Interesting, didn't know the Sennheiser MX375s (or an imitation using the same shell) were listed on Ali. $17 on sale isn't bad either, though I would think there are better earbuds even in that price range nowadays:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

Also, anyone see anything else using the PK2 shell on sale at the moment? I still only see the $10 B40 and a Fengruu DIY then the prices jump above like $50 excluding the actual Yuin PK2 which imo is mediocre.


----------



## rprodrigues

theresanarc said:


> Interesting, didn't know the Sennheiser MX375s (or an imitation using the same shell) were listed on Ali. $17 on sale isn't bad either, though I would think there are better earbuds even in that price range nowadays:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_
> 
> Also, anyone see anything else using the PK2 shell on sale at the moment? I still only see the $10 B40 and a Fengruu DIY then the prices jump above like $50 excluding the actual Yuin PK2 which imo is mediocre.




Just forget Fengru DIY pk sets. They are too mediocre to deserve a try.


----------



## Sam L

furyossa said:


> HE150Pro is really great earbuds. I'm still wondering if the same driver was used in the original version and the pro version. For me, HE150 sounds better than HE150Pro.
> If both models use the same driver then it is probably a problem in the shell. HE150Pro has a similar shell as MS16 buds. But cavity can look like this and that is a major problem, or maybe HE150 driver works better with MX500 shell. Penon Audio Store doesn't have them in stock at the moment, but they can be found here.
> I damaged my HE150 (MX500 shell) trying to disassemble them because I decided for some reason to change the cables.  The original version has cheap cables but does not twist, unlike the pro model.
> I hope to see the compensation file soon


@cenizas sent me the FR of the HE150pro, I'll try to generate a file later tonight.


----------



## lackOfInspiration

I recieved the DIY MX500 2 days ago, and here are my quick impressions:
They sound completely off. No pinnea gain there, and there's an important deep at 6k which doesn't help (and I can't get it EQed so it's a major issue). But admittedly tehy sound "fast" and have a very enjoyable response in the lower part of the spectrum. They seem to perform best with a somewhat loose seal, where the bass are linear (but still extanded) and distortion free.

I'd love to know about cheap buds tuned with a pinnea gain if you guys have suggestions (many thanks to @cenizas who did it already). So far I have MS16, Openheart and Ty 32 as winners in my book (all well worth their low price if you don't have them yet)


----------



## DAndrew

rprodrigues said:


> Are Toneking TO400s still a good choice at the price of $55?
> 
> Can they face newer graphene earbuds at the same price bracket?



Went back in the thread to get updated since I have been mia for a while. I have owned the TO400s since they were released, I do not recommend them unless you really want to hear what they sound like. Bad quality with the cable arriving with a problem and one driver dying within half a year. Their sound quality is also meh, you can do better for the money...


----------



## DAndrew

furyossa said:


> I don't have the TO400s to compare but looking to spec. TO400s has a better extension on both ends and 10db higher sensitivity so easier to drive.
> You have to take into account that it is tuned by Tonekng. For $53 this is nice.
> Maybe it's better to wait and see how this new "green" model turned out. The driver, however, uses modern technology.



"You have to take into account that it is tuned by Tonekng." dont want to stir up anything but what do you mean by this? The TO400s are mediocre at best


----------



## rprodrigues

@DAndrew

Would you recommend any graphene set at the same price bracket?


----------



## Au13

DAndrew said:


> Went back in the thread to get updated since I have been mia for a while. I have owned the TO400s since they were released, I do not recommend them unless you really want to hear what they sound like. Bad quality with the cable arriving with a problem and one driver dying within half a year. Their sound quality is also meh, you can do better for the money...


I also received my TO400s a few months ago with the right connector being loose, the cable would fall right out while wearing them, had to buy an additional mmcx cable and if they are moved too much while in ear the right cuts out.


----------



## rprodrigues

Au13 said:


> I also received my TO400s a few months ago with the right connector being loose, the cable would fall right out while wearing them, had to buy an additional mmcx cable and if they are moved too much while in ear the right cuts out.



I ordered them today... 

What are your thoughts on them in terms of sound?


----------



## furyossa

DAndrew said:


> "You have to take into account that it is tuned by Tonekng." dont want to stir up anything but what do you mean by this? The TO400s are mediocre at best


I mean DiY400ohm u can tune by yourself with your build (shell+cable), but if it is tuned by the manufacturer then you can expect either better or worse
obviously as you say about TO400 is something in between ie. mediocre. BTW DIY400 is not "mediocre" for sure


----------



## Au13

rprodrigues said:


> I ordered them today...
> 
> What are your thoughts on them in terms of sound?


I use them almost entirely for gaming so I can't really help in detail with describing the sound, but I use them because they do what I want better than others. Plenty of space, feels very clean/clear


----------



## kadas152

Smabat Store on AE has pretty good sale price for DIY M2 Pro especially the ST10S Gold driver. I was able to get custom M2 Pro set with ST10S driver and both tuning models for less than $30 
Unfortunately they have one item per customer limitations set up on those DIY components which effectively means its impossible to buy tuning filters and M2 Main Module together. But if you write the store they can arrange it for you


----------



## Philimon

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/yincrow-x6.22393/
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32809743166.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail

Does Yincrow X6 actually use biocellulose drivers as advertised?

Yincrow X6 is similar to old Vido earbuds. Vido earbuds show some frequency response variation based on build/color (or possibly just quality control), so does Yincrow have similar idiosyncracies or inconsistencies?

I ordered three different colors to test (yincrow). Will share findings.


----------



## davjac84

DAndrew said:


> Went back in the thread to get updated since I have been mia for a while. I have owned the TO400s since they were released, I do not recommend them unless you really want to hear what they sound like. Bad quality with the cable arriving with a problem and one driver dying within half a year. Their sound quality is also meh, you can do better for the money...


I think these buds sound terriffic! I don't have that many buds (Ourart ACG, Memt T5 and some others), but compared to those I have they certainly are much better, not counting TO600 that is. TO400s are fantastic, but TO600 are even better, atleast if you like a bit more oomph in the bass department. Even compared to my HD600 I still love these two buds!
Regarding the build quality you are right, it could be better. But both my 400 and 600 are still rocking after owning them a couple of years, so not that bad experience for me.


----------



## cenizas

lackOfInspiration said:


> I recieved the DIY MX500 2 days ago, and here are my quick impressions:
> They sound completely off. No pinnea gain there, and there's an important deep at 6k which doesn't help (and I can't get it EQed so it's a major issue). But admittedly tehy sound "fast" and have a very enjoyable response in the lower part of the spectrum. They seem to perform best with a somewhat loose seal, where the bass are linear (but still extanded) and distortion free.
> 
> I'd love to know about cheap buds tuned with a pinnea gain if you guys have suggestions (many thanks to @cenizas who did it already). So far I have MS16, Openheart and Ty 32 as winners in my book (all well worth their low price if you don't have them yet)


I think it's a dilemma, had this discussion with @Sam L awhile back and we concluded that tuners and those figuring out a target curve are stuck between a rock and a hard place because most bud users are used to having little to no pinna gain and actually like that more laid back presentation. So tuning for pinna gain might actually be shooting yourself in the foot with the core earbud lovers. It's a tough decision since most tuning gains can be made with the implementation of better bass control and introducing some pinna gain.

On the same note, I think there's also the case to be made that pinna gain is not always necessary and preference wise that are those like myself who can sometimes even prefer the laid back presentation of low to no pinna gain. You see this in iems too, a lot of reference monitors, uerm/rr, qdc8ss and 4ss, itsfit r3, pears sh2 etc have low to no pinna gain, and still sound very tonally correct. So I think the position that pinna gain is absolutely necessary to sound good is also not entirely true. I'm still trying to get a better understanding of it too. That being said, bud tunings in general are still pretty atrocious and there are a lot of other improvements that can be made even before touching pinna gain.


----------



## cenizas

Philimon said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/yincrow-x6.22393/
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32809743166.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail
> 
> Does Yincrow X6 actually use biocellulose drivers as advertised?
> ...


I doubt it. Very likely the same driver as vido, so mylar/PET. But it's China, so it's fairly doable to do a production run of a vido driver and change the diaphragm material so it's hard to say with 100% certainty.


----------



## baskingshark

Has anybody tried this earbud? Purported to have beryllium in the driver and quite cheap.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001589119116.html







Might consider getting it for 11/11!


----------



## baskingshark

Earbuds anonymous is going at $25 USD on Aliexpress for 11/11: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000286590083.html

Seen many good reviews about it. I think original price is $50 USD. Anyone can advise how does it compare to some midfi earbuds?


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> Earbuds anonymous is going at $25 USD on Aliexpress for 11/11: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000286590083.html
> 
> Seen many good reviews about it. I think original price is $50 USD. Anyone can advise how does it compare to some midfi earbuds?


I believe 50 usd is the price without the discount that is available in the facebook group:



Although I have no idea if the "official" price is 25 usd or somewhere in between.


----------



## rprodrigues (Nov 12, 2020)

For those who would like to compare Frengru DIY and NICEHCK DIY MX500 buds, these photos are from Frengru's version...
They are similar build wise. In terms of sound, version from NICEHCK is a little warmer. However, that might be due to some unit variance.



Spoiler: Fengru











I also have DIY Pk1 from NICEHCK as well as DIY Pk2 from Frengru. Both have the same sound reproduction and are identical build wise.


----------



## RikudouGoku

rprodrigues said:


> For those who would like to compare Frengru DIY and NICEHCK DIY MX500 buds, these photos are from Frengru's version...
> They are similar build wise. In terms of sound, version from NICEHCK is a little warmer. However, that might be due to some unit variance.
> 
> 
> ...


Honestly dont get why they dont have a proper model name for them.


----------



## rprodrigues

RikudouGoku said:


> Honestly dont get why they dont have a proper model name for them.



Chifi world has too many mysteries...


----------



## RikudouGoku

rprodrigues said:


> Chifi world has too many mysteries...


yeah, a bad name is better than no name...

It would be like if mcdonalds made a new burger called "hamburger" and some other burger store also has one called "hamburger". It be confusing....


----------



## RikudouGoku

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001639756669.html

Looks like an interesting method. I would expect that the center filter is for the bass instead of the treble, but its the reverse here.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001639756669.html
> 
> Looks like an interesting method. I would expect that the center filter is for the bass instead of the treble, but its the reverse here.


Same. As I know the center of diaphragm dome produces bass and sides, hights. Reversed? Hmmm...


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Same. As I know the center of diaphragm dome produces bass and sides, hights. Reversed? Hmmm...


Which Is why I thought that maybe the translation is wrong. But it doesnt seem to be the case, since google translate also translated it to that.


----------



## rprodrigues

RikudouGoku said:


> I believe 50 usd is the price without the discount that is available in the facebook group:
> 
> Although I have no idea if the "official" price is 25 usd or somewhere in between.



I'd like to test them but I can't discover the diameter of their shells. 

I had asked how to get the 'official' price some time ago, but I got no answer at all.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Which Is why I thought that maybe the translation is wrong. But it doesnt seem to be the case, since google translate also translated it to that.


I think it's their typo. The center part not vibrating so much as the side of the diaphragm and that vibration produce high frequencies. 
I don’t know but for me it makes sense


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> I'd like to test them but I can't discover the diameter of their shells.
> 
> I had asked how to get the 'official' price some time ago, but I got no answer at all.


Same size as for MX500 shells (15.4mm)


----------



## lackOfInspiration

cenizas said:


> I think it's a dilemma, had this discussion with @Sam L awhile back and we concluded that tuners and those figuring out a target curve are stuck between a rock and a hard place because most bud users are used to having little to no pinna gain and actually like that more laid back presentation. So tuning for pinna gain might actually be shooting yourself in the foot with the core earbud lovers. It's a tough decision since most tuning gains can be made with the implementation of better bass control and introducing some pinna gain.



Oh I really appreciate your post, and I guess you're right, niche market often fall into this. But maybe earbuds lovers are not that narrow minded: MS16, original monk (and others I guess) were highly hyped and tuned with compensation for lack of ineratction with the outer ear in mind.



> On the same note, I think there's also the case to be made that pinna gain is not always necessary and preference wise that are those like myself who can sometimes even prefer the laid back presentation of low to no pinna gain. You see this in iems too, a lot of reference monitors, uerm/rr, qdc8ss and 4ss, itsfit r3, pears sh2 etc have low to no pinna gain, and still sound very tonally correct. So I think the position that pinna gain is absolutely necessary to sound good is also not entirely true. I'm still trying to get a better understanding of it too. That being said, bud tunings in general are still pretty atrocious and there are a lot of other improvements that can be made even before touching pinna gain.



I can't really agree with this 



Spoiler: Why I do so



I can't get away of the idea that *Compensation is (almost) a necessity:*
Obviously we like what we're used to, audio reproduction is about tricking your mind and the force of habit is surely an adequate tool for that (although almost impossible to quantify and highly impretictable). Nevertheless pseudo accuracy is a way shorter (and safer) path to good sound I believe. Having a response at your eardrums matching what you'd have in diffuse field (or in front of studio monitors, or whatever depending on what you want to reproduce) seems to be the rational goal to pursue. It's almost trivial, no mysticism here. It's very hard to get exactly there for many reasons, so there are still many compromises to be made (that's why I'm talking abour pseudo accuracy), but as time goes by science does it's job and there are more and more results to lean on to designe products. So I can't say compensation to match the average human's HRTF (what I usually call pinnea gain) is the absolute graal, but I can say for sure that it is very likely to make the sound good. And if it is a compensation for your personal HRTF it is very very very very likely. 

At this point I think it sould be worth saying that *frequency response is almost everything*: What I mean is that the impulse response is sufficient to fully caracterize a system. It contains all the information. (Frequency response and distortion are derived from it for vizualization). *So there is no underlying quality that allows a system to sound "tonnally" ok inspite of a bad frequency response. *There could be brain compensation though, or any purely psyochological mecanism that is beyound the scope of phyisics (I can't see any other though). Probably worth investigating but establishing a method for that seems so hard.


So in the end what are the "other improvments" you're talking about? 

I realize we are probably in agreement and that you're just saying that as far as music listening is concerned you can enjoy without staying true to the recording at all. Which can be true for sure. Is this the case?


----------



## rprodrigues

furyossa said:


> Are you read my last attempt to do the same. I don't care if is expensive as much as it sounds good and worth playing with it. I destroy the shell of BGVP DX5 (fortunately
> driver works) but I don't care as much as the HE150 which is 5 times cheaper but is rare to find and it sounds IMHO 5 times better.
> If you do not have the Pro version and you love good soundstage and sub-bass this is my recommendation.
> It looks like the original 100%. I bought mine on Penon Audio but they are no longer in stock. The package is so poor, a plain carton box, and pouch.



Yes, I read your post about your DIY work on the ShoonTH ESEP-01BL. 
It is great!

I will take a look at the DIY HE150 from Fengru.





robar said:


> I have 5 pairs  Balanced, slightly U-shaped sound, tight deep bass and extended treble. The sound is more dynamic with better extension compared to any other similarly priced model. Very easy to drive and don't distort. For me it's the price-performance champion.



Sounds like a must-have!
Are you talking about the drivers in http://aliexpress.com/item/4000281063945.html ?


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> Yes, I read your post about your DIY work on the ShoonTH ESEP-01BL.
> It is great!
> 
> I will take a look at the DIY HE150 from Fengru.
> ...


Wrong thread. Yup. That is "famous" driver


----------



## DAndrew

rprodrigues said:


> @DAndrew
> 
> Would you recommend any graphene set at the same price bracket?



Why do you want a "Graphene" earbud? its all a gimmick. Its not a graphene diaphragm, its supposed to be coated in graphene at most but i really doubt its even coated, I might take the TO400s apart to check if people here really want to.

If you really want something with a coated driver I would go for sony vintage buds instead of chinese earbuds


----------



## DAndrew

furyossa said:


> I mean DiY400ohm u can tune by yourself with your build (shell+cable), but if it is tuned by the manufacturer then you can expect either better or worse
> obviously as you say about TO400 is something in between ie. mediocre. BTW DIY400 is not "mediocre" for sure



This statement only further confuses me; there was no DiY400ohm in the discussion and I dont know how it sounds, I dont even know what earbud you are talking about. 

Regarding tuning, there is only so much you can do; 80-85% of the sound quality comes from the driver


----------



## rprodrigues

DAndrew said:


> Why do you want a "Graphene" earbud? its all a gimmick. Its not a graphene diaphragm, its supposed to be coated in graphene at most but i really doubt its even coated, I might take the TO400s apart to check if people here really want to.
> 
> If you really want something with a coated driver I would go for sony vintage buds instead of chinese earbuds



They supposedly have good low and high extensions acording to some post regarding DIY drivers.


----------



## DAndrew

Philimon said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/yincrow-x6.22393/
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32809743166.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail
> 
> Does Yincrow X6 actually use biocellulose drivers as advertised?
> ...



No, it does not have biocellulose drivers, its just a re-shelled and re-cabled vido. At least it was for the old batches


----------



## DAndrew

rprodrigues said:


> They supposedly have good low and high extensions acording to some post regarding DIY drivers.



You should take everything with a grain of salt, especially when its about DIY eabuds. And regarding drivers if you really want something that has good high and low extension save some money for Cypherus earbuds


----------



## waynes world

RikudouGoku said:


> yeah, a bad name is better than no name...
> 
> It would be like if mcdonalds made a new burger called "hamburger" and some other burger store also has one called "hamburger". It be confusing....



Lol! Actually, I wonder if no name would be better than a bad name. At least then one would know that they are supposed to be clueless and confused!


----------



## RikudouGoku

rprodrigues said:


> They supposedly have good low and high extensions acording to some post regarding DIY drivers.


You shouldnt just buy it based on the driver, tuning is much more important.

My S130 (beryllium) is 4 times more expensive than my X6 and the X6 beats it pretty hard on what a beryllium is supposed to do best with, the bass.


----------



## RikudouGoku

waynes world said:


> Lol! Actually, I wonder if no name would be better than a bad name. At least then one would know that they are supposed to be clueless and confused!


I take a bad name over no name. Much easier when you are refering to it. (at least if the brand has more than 1 product.)


----------



## DAndrew

cenizas said:


> I think it's a dilemma, had this discussion with @Sam L awhile back and we concluded that tuners and those figuring out a target curve are stuck between a rock and a hard place because most bud users are used to having little to no pinna gain and actually like that more laid back presentation. So tuning for pinna gain might actually be shooting yourself in the foot with the core earbud lovers. It's a tough decision since most tuning gains can be made with the implementation of better bass control and introducing some pinna gain.
> 
> On the same note, I think there's also the case to be made that pinna gain is not always necessary and preference wise that are those like myself who can sometimes even prefer the laid back presentation of low to no pinna gain. You see this in iems too, a lot of reference monitors, uerm/rr, qdc8ss and 4ss, itsfit r3, pears sh2 etc have low to no pinna gain, and still sound very tonally correct. So I think the position that pinna gain is absolutely necessary to sound good is also not entirely true. I'm still trying to get a better understanding of it too. That being said, bud tunings in general are still pretty atrocious and there are a lot of other improvements that can be made even before touching pinna gain.



I actually had to google what a "pinna gain" is since I dont remember seeing it here before. I have to say its all really silly to me. Pinna for an...earbud? Is the pinna not like the external ear..? Or am I missing something?

And why are you trying to correct all earbuds to respond to that curve? Is the point of different earbuds not to sound different? Why would you want multiple earbuds that sound the same?


----------



## DAndrew

RikudouGoku said:


> You shouldnt just buy it based on the driver, tuning is much more important.
> 
> My S130 (beryllium) is 4 times more expensive than my X6 and the X6 beats it pretty hard on what a beryllium is supposed to do best with, the bass.



Price is not everything, if you dont build the cabinet well even more expensive speaker drivers can be outperformed by cheaper builds. I would also take everything chinese sellers are saying with a grain of salt. Is it really beryllium? Is it coated? Who knows you have to go with what the seller says...


----------



## RikudouGoku

DAndrew said:


> Price is not everything, if you dont build the cabinet well even more expensive speaker drivers can be outperformed by cheaper builds. I would also take everything chinese sellers are saying with a grain of salt. Is it really beryllium? Is it coated? Who knows you have to go with what the seller says...


yeah that is also something to keep in mind. I am more than aware that price is not everything.


----------



## macunaima

hey guys ordered a pair of yy bk2 today, hope theyre good, and unfortunaly my pair of st-10 is with a  bit of bass cracking noise on the left driver dont think theyll last long i only used them for around 300-400 hours so far


----------



## lackOfInspiration

DAndrew said:


> I actually had to google what a "pinna gain" is since I dont remember seeing it here before. I have to say its all really silly to me. Pinna for an...earbud? Is the pinna not like the external ear..? Or am I missing something?



Indeed it's the outer ear, and indeed earbud interact only partially with it. This is precisely what this gain is compensating for. When hearing sounds in the nature, soundwaves interacts very significantly with the differents parts of the ear befor to reach the eardrum. The sound field is also modified by the presence of your head and body... This is why you're never percieving sounds the way they were generated. For music, the point of reference for neutrality is what you hear sitting in front of very flat speakers in a well treated room (like in a studio). So a headset, IEMs and earbuds need to simulate such conditions to sound neutral, which means compensating for body/head/ear interaction with soundwaves by amplifying certain freqeuncies. Knowing which frequencies need to be amplified is not easy and it varies on a per device AND per ear basis. Target curves are comprimises and only show the response you should have at the eardrum for the average human. 



> And why are you trying to correct all earbuds to respond to that curve? Is the point of different earbuds not to sound different? Why would you want multiple earbuds that sound the same?


You get a point here x) I'd say as every set react to EQ differently, you're still left with different sounding buds...


----------



## BrunoC

macunaima said:


> hey guys ordered a pair of yy bk2 today, hope theyre good, and unfortunaly my pair of st-10 is with a  bit of bass cracking noise on the left driver dont think theyll last long i only used them for around 300-400 hours so far



The BK2 is very different from the ST-10. Very bass-light and a bit harsh due to upper mids boost. I really didn't like it at all, and I tried believe me. Good build though.
The $4 Vido is much better.
Bottom line: The ST-10 is from another league completely.


----------



## DAndrew

lackOfInspiration said:


> Indeed it's the outer ear, and indeed earbud interact only partially with it. This is precisely what this gain is compensating for. When hearing sounds in the nature, soundwaves interacts very significantly with the differents parts of the ear befor to reach the eardrum. The sound field is also modified by the presence of your head and body... This is why you're never percieving sounds the way they were generated. For music, the point of reference for neutrality is what you hear sitting in front of very flat speakers in a well treated room (like in a studio). So a headset, IEMs and earbuds need to simulate such conditions to sound neutral, which means compensating for body/head/ear interaction with soundwaves by amplifying certain freqeuncies. Knowing which frequencies need to be amplified is not easy and it varies on a per device AND per ear basis. Target curves are comprimises and only show the response you should have at the eardrum for the average human.
> 
> 
> You get a point here x) I'd say as every set react to EQ differently, you're still left with different sounding buds...



Thanks for the explanation 

I guess I can understand where you are coming from but from a quick google it seems the brain already takes into account the ear cannal resonance so it is not heard anyways...why bother so much for something that is not perceived anyways? Seems like needless double filtering to me...these are earbuds for gods sake if you want accurate representation with the pinna or w/e go full size


----------



## macunaima

BrunoC said:


> The BK2 is very different from the ST-10. Very bass-light and a bit harsh due to upper mids boost. I really didn't like it at all, and I tried believe me. Good build though.
> The $4 Vido is much better.
> Bottom line: The ST-10 is from another league completely.


i know theyre not in the same league, i just like to test new stuff, i have a bunch of earbuds and iems, love my st-10 the technicallities on this earbud are fenomenal, the biggest drawback is the thin mids, for vocals i prefer my set o tfz no.3 and sometimes on vocal "exclusive" music i use the moondrop nameless(you can say wathever you want but i love the relaxed signature of them).


----------



## BrunoC

Yes, I also love the Moondrop Nameless, with its incredible soundstage and diffuse-field llke sound, without a hint of harshness.


----------



## lackOfInspiration

DAndrew said:


> Thanks for the explanation
> 
> I guess I can understand where you are coming from but from a quick google it seems the brain already takes into account the ear cannal resonance so it is not heard anyways...why bother so much for something that is not perceived anyways? Seems like needless double filtering to me...these are earbuds for gods sake if you want accurate representation with the pinna or w/e go full size



I'm not sure what you mean by "takes into account". I'm curious if you have some links. 
I'm not sur I understand your reasoning either. Why would the ability to percieve tonal differencies be taken away by the brain accommodation mecanism? Brains doesn't compensate for anything instantaneously... Why double filtering? Double filtering would be listening to binaural recordings on speakers or somethink like that.
Clearly going "full size" make things easier in this regard. But I find it fun to dig the question of how should earbuds be tuned, to understand why some sound good and others not so much. I think I can learn a lot along the way discussing it with others as well, so I don't find it bothersome.



BrunoC said:


> Yes, I also love the Moondrop Nameless, with its incredible soundstage and diffuse-field llke sound, without a hint of harshness.


I always forget to mention them but it's true that with loose fit and at higher volumes they sound very good. (By the way it's been one year I got them and the (wonderful) cable is turning greenish... Anyone with the same issue?)


----------



## Sam L (Nov 12, 2020)

DAndrew said:


> *I actually had to google what a "pinna gain" is since I dont remember seeing it here before.*


I might be at least partially guilty of all this pinna gain talk with earbuds. At some point we might need to arrive at more accurate nomenclature in describing HRTF interactions with earbuds. Until then, in my mind, "pinna gain" as it relates to earbuds is more of a borrowed term from headphones and iems to describe the generic rise from 1k to 3-4k.

*And why are you trying to correct all earbuds to respond to that curve?*

With regards to the work I've been doing:
1. I think there is value in trying to discover a target curve for earbuds ala Harman target, diffuse field, etc. 
2. In determining that eventual target curve, I strongly believe (as does @cenivas) that it will be instrumental in persuading IEM and headphone users to see the unique value proposition buds bring to the audiophile world. 
3. Most default tuning for buds are, quite frankly, so far from reality that I can understand why earbuds are a niche product.

I want to see a global revival, hence more innovation, with earbuds.* 

Is the point of different earbuds not to sound different? Why would you want multiple earbuds that sound the same?*

A target curve is not a 100% effective forcing function -- the results even when targeting a particular curve still allows for a great diversity in sound and distinctiveness between manufacturers and models. FR is only one aspect of the resultant sound we hear. We see this all over the IEM world with earphones that target Harman but sound very different from each other.


----------



## Sam L

DAndrew said:


> Thanks for the explanation
> 
> I guess I can understand where you are coming from but from a quick google it seems the brain already takes into account the ear cannal resonance so it is not heard anyways...why bother so much for something that is not perceived anyways? Seems like needless double filtering to me...these are earbuds for gods sake if you want accurate representation with the pinna or w/e go full size




My friend, if you have have a K's Nameless and an Android 9+ device running wavelet, you will be SHOCKED at how much my compensation file improves the sound quality. SHOCKED. Or for that matter, the following earbuds are easily improved by a whole tier or two with compensation:
- rambo II
- fiio em5
- me80
- x6


----------



## DAndrew

lackOfInspiration said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by "takes into account". I'm curious if you have some links.
> I'm not sur I understand your reasoning either. Why would the ability to percieve tonal differencies be taken away by the brain accommodation mecanism? Brains doesn't compensate for anything instantaneously... Why double filtering? Double filtering would be listening to binaural recordings on speakers or somethink like that.
> Clearly going "full size" make things easier in this regard. But I find it fun to dig the question of how should earbuds be tuned, to understand why some sound good and others not so much. I think I can learn a lot along the way discussing it with others as well, so I don't find it bothersome.
> 
> ...



If you google "pinna gain earbuds" the first link: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hea...-or-not-to-pinna-that-is-the-question.636885/ I basically quoted the guy there. There seem to be more articles but I dont have the time to go through them right now.

I disagree, your brains filters a lot of things in real time...noise being one of those things too. Reasoning for double filtering: I base this off the claim that guy made in the thread - If your brain filters the pinna thingy you introduce it only for it to be filtered again, ergo double filtering - or thats how my reasoning is anyways.

If you really want to see the pinnacle of earbuds buy a ZoomFred, I have owned one and its as close to full sized headphones as any earbuds I have heard ( yet ).

As for your question on why sound good and some not, its because because of the driver pretty much


----------



## dissociativity

macunaima said:


> hey guys ordered a pair of yy bk2 today, hope theyre good, and unfortunaly my pair of st-10 is with a  bit of bass cracking noise on the left driver dont think theyll last long i only used them for around 300-400 hours so far


just use a hairdryer to pull the driver off and blow off any debris, then perhaps resolder the contacts, I have no skills at all and managed to DIY the black gold m2 pro fine with a cheap iron.


----------



## DAndrew

Sam L said:


> I might be at least partially guilty of all this pinna gain talk with earbuds. At some point we might need to arrive at more accurate nomenclature in describing HRTF interactions with earbuds. Until then, in my mind, "pinna gain" as it relates to earbuds is more of a borrowed term from headphones and iems to describe the generic rise from 1k to 3-4k.
> 
> *And why are you trying to correct all earbuds to respond to that curve?*
> 
> ...



I dislike applying filters to achieve a preset target curve, I find each earbud tonality more interesting to hear ( good earbuds at least... ), particularly vintage buds ( and players ). While writing this I am also cleaning a pair of vintage AIWA earbuds I found at the flea market, curious on how they sound 

I agree with you that earbuds should be more popular for a lot of reasons but I am not sure how applying a filter will achieve that for the layman. Developing good products will achieve that.

I have actually made a diaphragm press and have had success making tiny biocellulose, aluminum and copper diaphragms for earbuds but I have not had time to also develop a driver body because of covid and sourcing classic driver bodies from china will take ages now..

Recently I have been thinking of making planar drivers for earbuds and have began designing a shell, will post here when I have some real results


----------



## cenizas (Nov 12, 2020)

lackOfInspiration said:


> Oh I really appreciate your post, and I guess you're right, niche market often fall into this. But maybe earbuds lovers are not that narrow minded: MS16, original monk (and others I guess) were highly hyped and tuned with compensation for lack of ineratction with the outer ear in mind.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think me from a few years ago would've entirely agreed with you. However, now that I've sampled more earphones my position has changed. I think we both agree that having a good frequency response is vital to good sound, I think where we disagree is what a good frequency response should look like. I'm just no longer convinced that the levels of pinna gain that conventional targets strive for is entirely necessary. The mechanisms behind this I'm not entire sure of and would definitely like to see more research into, but just speaking in general I don't think this position is solely held by me. Pinna gain targets have been trending down for years now, remember, the original theoretical diffuse field provided for a whopping 15.5db of pinna gain, which at this point I'm sure most listeners would agree sounds miles from accurate. Etymotic updated the diffuse field providing for 13db thereabouts and Harman further reduced it to 12db and then to 11db. Even at 11db there are still many who find this unnatural and shouty. On the flip side, earlier target curves of experienced listeners like crin and toranku provided for about 5-7db of pinna gain, that is to say at 5db sounded natural enough to them at one point to be sufficient, despite the fact that they've both now revised their targets to about 8db. And it's not just audiophiles as well, the studio monitors I mentioned, namely the the qdc8ss and 4ss, UERM/RR, the PEARs SH2 and another that comes to mind is the FitEar MH334SR, were all tuned with feedback from producers, engineers and musicians and referenced studio monitors. I have personally also spent quite a lot of time with studio monitors, having owned Adams, Eves, borrowing a friend's Focal Solo Be6 and extensively trying JBLs, Yamahas, and KRKs, and the closest thing I've heard IEM wise that I'd trust as much as the Eve and Focal to reference on is the qdc8ss with its measly 3db pinna gain. So my position is not that frequency response does not matter, but merely that the levels of pinna gain strived for by current targets may not be ideal and I get the feeling pinna gain in general may scarcely be needed at all, or may be ideal at levels low enough that no pinna gain will still be an acceptable preferential variance. As I mentioned it earlier there's no research supporting this so it's purely anecdotal at this point, but I do get the feeling that there's a whole bunch of psychoacoustics in play and that the brain compensates a lot more than the current targets suggest. So what I'm saying isn't that frequency response isn't important, but rather that what an ideal frequency response is still needs a hard looking into.

In terms of other improvements I was referring more to non pinna related issues regarding frequency response, for example, the lack of sub bass and the excess mid bass that many earbuds have as well as poor balancing of bass, mids and highs in general. It doesn't matter how much pinna gain you have, if your bass rise is 20db or treble shelf is -15db the bud is still going to sound like muddy crap. Hope this provides more clarity.


----------



## cenizas (Nov 12, 2020)

DAndrew said:


> I dislike applying filters to achieve a preset target curve, I find each earbud tonality more interesting to hear ( good earbuds at least... ), particularly vintage buds ( and players ). While writing this I am also cleaning a pair of vintage AIWA earbuds I found at the flea market, curious on how they sound


I actually agree with you on this, while I don't dislike eqing, I do still enjoy hearing the true character of each bud. Anyways, always nice to meet another vintage bud lover!



DAndrew said:


> I agree with you that earbuds should be more popular for a lot of reasons but I am not sure how applying a filter will achieve that for the layman. Developing good products will achieve that.


Here what Sam and I are trying to achieve is to create general standards that we can agree upon not as an absolute, but more as a move in the right direction. Somewhat like how for budget chi-fi IEMs, tuning was a mess until they understood the importance of targets like harman and started referencing those. You still get variety, for example in addition to Moondrop and Tanchjim referencing Harman, you also get IEMs like the new Blon BL01 and Tin T2 Plus which are great examples of good tunings that came as a result of the first wave of Harman tunings but are not completely compliant to Harman themselves, so more of a development from that baseline of Harman, that's what we hope to achieve in the earbud space as well.  We don't disagree that developing good products will help, but we also believe that alongside good product development and technological advancements, it is crucial to improve tuning as well.

In terms of outreach to the layman, in addition to better tunings sounding, well, better, hitting a more IEM like response with some pinna and more controlled bass and treble profile will be more acceptable to a wider audience and perhaps pull over some non bud using audiophiles. I'm not sure if Sam is on the same page as me on this note, but I believe the current warm style tunings of buds will always exist due to that sound being the easiest to tune for buds (kind of like the old chi-fi generic v-shaped tuning almost all legacy Chi-fi IEMs had, still around aplenty despite Harman). But what we're trying to achieve is more variance from that common and conventional style, with slightly more congruence with commonly accepted headphone and IEM tunings and hence more variety as a whole due to developments in tuning conventions. What we're not trying to do is kill variety and classic bud tunings, rather, we're gunning for progress in what we view as a manufacturing and design landscape that has stagnated, which will hopefully lead to better developed tuning which might actually result in more overall variety from all the potential offshoots from those tunings. Hope this helps to clarify.


----------



## macunaima

hey guys im searching for a very good soundstage earbud at max 150usd, which one should i  get? maybe i can save and buy a fiio em5 later too


----------



## assassin10000 (Nov 12, 2020)

Just my 2 cents on pinna gain. I've tried flat tunings to 12db+ and most points in between on my DIY earbuds. I've settled on a range of about +8 to +10db, anything less I find is missing something and any more can be a bit too much; IF the bass/mids are relatively flat. If the sound sig is more V or U-shaped this my change things. Also dependant on song/genre/recording too of course, ymmv.

I also tend to try and tune the typical overly warm sound of many earbuds out. They typically rise from the bass/sub-bass and peak somewhere between 150-300hz before dipping in the mids. I like this range more flat or with a hint of warmth.


Here's a graph from my older measurement setup, it has a 2.5k dip that isn't real and the resonant peak is around 7k iirc. Of these the ME80 had the better bass/mids for a natural sound (80-800hz) and the pinna gain is around +10db. Possibly why it is so well liked. Wish it had a better fit for me but it found a new home with another headfier.


----------



## lackOfInspiration (Nov 12, 2020)

cenizas said:


> I think me from a few years ago would've entirely agreed with you. However, now that I've sampled more earphones my position has changed. I think we both agree that having a good frequency response is vital to good sound, I think where we disagree is what a good frequency response should look like. I'm just no longer convinced that the levels of pinna gain that conventional targets strive for is entirely necessary. The mechanisms behind this I'm not entire sure of and would definitely like to see more research into, but just speaking in general I don't think this position is solely held by me. Pinna gain targets have been trending down for years now, remember, the original theoretical diffuse field provided for a whopping 15.5db of pinna gain, which at this point I'm sure most listeners would agree sounds miles from accurate. Etymotic updated the diffuse field providing for 13db thereabouts and Harman further reduced it to 12db and then to 11db. Even at 11db there are still many who find this unnatural and shouty. On the flip side, earlier target curves of experienced listeners like crin and toranku provided for about 5-7db of pinna gain, that is to say at 5db sounded natural enough to them at one point to be sufficient, despite the fact that they've both now revised their targets to about 8db. And it's not just audiophiles as well, the studio monitors I mentions, namely the the qdc8ss and 4ss, UERM/RR, the PEARs SH2 and another that comes to mind is the FitEar MH334SR, were all tuned with feedback from producers, engineers and musicians and referenced studio monitors. I have personally also spent quite a lot of time with studio monitors, having owned Adams, Eves, borrowing a friend's Focal Solo Be6 and extensively trying JBLs, Yamahas, and KRKs, and the closest thing I've heard IEM wise that I'd trust as much as the Eve and Focal to reference on is the qdc8ss with its measly 3db pinna gain. So my position is not that frequency response does not matter, but merely that the levels of pinna gain strived for by current targets may not be ideal and I get the feeling pinna gain in general may scarcely be needed at all, or may be ideal at levels low enough that no pinna gain will still be an acceptable preferential variance. As I mentioned it earlier there's no research supporting this so it's purely anecdotal at this point, but I do get the feeling that there's a whole bunch of psychoacoustics in play and that the brain compensates a lot more than the current targets suggest. So what I'm saying isn't that frequency response isn't important, but rather that what an ideal frequency response is still needs a hard looking into.
> 
> In terms of other improvements I was referring more to non pinna related issues regarding frequency response, for example, the lack of sub bass and the excess mid bass that many earbuds have as well as poor balancing of bass, mids and highs in general. It doesn't matter how much pinna gain you have, if your bass rise is 20db or treble shelf is -15db the bud is still going to sound like muddy crap. Hope this provides more clarity.



Definitely I misunderstood you, hence sorry for that really. I feared you were invoking some kind of magical concept between the lines... but not at all. Apologize

Now, I think like you the currentt 3k mountain reappraisal that is happening in the IEM world is justified (at least when trying to establishe a target as universal as possible). Crinacle indeed set the trend for this, and recently his review of the Moondrop SSR, an IEM that would have been praised by someone like Rin Choi in the past, made me realize DF tuning is not that strong at all. I came to this realization pretty late because my ears just like the DF target. I think I have a pretty good idea of my personal HRTF (I experimented with EQ and IEMs a LOT and tried to measure it several times with in ear mics, and even molded my right ear just to see) and it's clearly "shouty" if I can say, and pretty smooth. When I EQ my RE-400 after what I know of my HRTF with a tilt down of 1-2dB/octave from 100hz it just works. Like when I tried a VR set, but for audio. I red on Audiosciencereview about a system which EQs a headphone to you personal HRTF in your personal speaker set up and adds head tracking on the top of that to complete the illusion: Reportedly the illusion is strong.
Nevertheless my belief that an exact match of personal HRTF in studio is the best possible experience is largely weaker than before. Like many I'm waiting for some results about psychoacoustics, but so hard to investigate scientifically. Though I think one mistake when trying to investigate psychoacoustics is to build the methodology around preferences rather than differencies.

Yea, the approach "clean up the lower frequencies as much as possible and bring up the higher ones as little as possible" is probably a good one that might help to avoid super shouty targets. I think the Harman target with its little notch @200Hz in addition to the upward sloping low-mids does just that. But it seems it could be woth going even further.

Reading you I just understand how relevant is your approach, and the work you're making with @Sam L  really is what I was looking for (and trying to do by my own to some extent) if little ambitious maybe. But I'd be glad to  help!


----------



## cenizas

assassin10000 said:


> Just my 2 cents on pinna gain. I've tried flat tunings to 12db+ and most points in between on my DIY earbuds. I've settled on a range of about +8 to +10db, anything less I find is missing something and any more can be a bit too much; IF the bass/mids are relatively flat. If the sound sig is more V or U-shaped this my change things. Also dependant on song/genre/recording too of course, ymmv.
> 
> I also tend to try and tune the typical overly warm sound of many earbuds out. They typically rise from the bass/sub-bass and peak somewhere between 150-300hz before dipping in the mids. I like this range more flat or with a hint of warmth.
> 
> ...


Agreed, 8-10db is extremely safe and is what will work for most people I think. To include those who prefer warmer tunings I think 5-10db is a good extension of that.


----------



## cenizas

lackOfInspiration said:


> Definitely I misunderstood you, hence sorry for that really. I feared you were invoking some kind of magical concept between the lines... but not at all. Apologize
> 
> Now, I think like you the currentt 3k mountain reappraisal that is happening in the IEM world is justified (at least when trying to establishe a target as universal as possible). Crinacle indeed set the trend for this, and recently his review of the Moondrop SSR, an IEM that would have been praised by someone like Rin Choi in the past, made me realize DF tuning is not that strong at all. I came to this realization pretty late because my ears just like the DF target. I think I have a pretty good idea of my personal HRTF (I experimented with EQ and IEMs a LOT and tried to measure it several times with in ear mics, and even molded my right ear just to see) and it's clearly "shouty" if I can say, and pretty smooth. When I EQ my RE-400 after what I know of my HRTF with a tilt down of 1-2dB/octave drom 100hz it just works. Like when I tried a VR set, but for audio. I red on Audiosciencereview about a system which EQs a headphone to you personal HRTF in your personal speaker set up and adds head tracking on the top of that to complete the illusion: Reportedly the illusion is strong.
> Nevertheless my belief that an exact match of personal HRTF in studio is the best possible experience is largely weaker than before. Like many I'm waiting for some results about psychoacoustics, but so hard to investigate scientifically. Though I think one mistake when trying to investigate psychoacoustics is to build the methodology around preferences rather than differencies.
> ...


Yup, Rin was a purist through and through, so his love for DF is understandable, absolutely nothing wrong there, but might not be entirely relevant in determining what sounds good to a general audience. VR for audio is an experience I'd definitely love to have and also great job figuring out your personal HRTF, I should probably work on that as well haha. Agree with you on the research part, even for Harman it was preference based, I'd like to see something with more concrete backing with a fundamental baseline for comparison focused on differences as well. Sam is still exploring the curve and is taking feedback from everyone! So if convenient do give his eq compensation files a try and share some of your thoughts. Currently it's not really bring the higher frequencies up as little as possible, we're just trying to find the sweet spot with pinna and the upper registers in general to still keep what bud lovers like about buds around while making it more familiar to IEM users. 

Help wise feedback and knowledge is always welcome and we're also looking to create a measurement method that's easy to replicate (we already have one that works fairly well just with the IEC711 coupler but we'll be looking to include proper pinna simulation in the future) and a frequency response database for buds, so if yourself or anyone else has, is willing to procure or has access to a 711 coupler and some buds or are in our locality, have some buds and are willing to contribute to the database, do send Sam or me a DM


----------



## superuser1

RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001639756669.html
> 
> Looks like an interesting method. I would expect that the center filter is for the bass instead of the treble, but its the reverse here.


I am waiting for you to get one and enlighten us!


----------



## Sam L

BrunoC said:


> The BK2 is very different from the ST-10. Very bass-light and a bit harsh due to upper mids boost. I really didn't like it at all, and I tried believe me. Good build though.
> The $4 Vido is much better.
> Bottom line: The ST-10 is from another league completely.


Agreed, the BK2 is really, really different from the st-10s. In my opinion the biggest issue with the BK2 is the aggressiveness of the pinna gain couple with a huge notch at 10k that is one of the biggest I've seen ever. When Tyll describes 10k behavior he often describes that particular region should normalize roughly to where the graph is at 1k. I'm finding that for earbuds it's more in the -3dB to -5dB area below the 1k value.


----------



## Sam L

macunaima said:


> hey guys im searching for a very good soundstage earbud at max 150usd, which one should i  get? maybe i can save and buy a fiio em5 later too


Get a yincrow x6 and use my compensation file. 

In all honesty, I'm finding that most of the sub $20 buds eq really well so I'd recommend enjoying them and not bother with mid tier buds, just save up and jump straight to end game models later.


----------



## theresanarc

I was thinking of trying another cheapo MX500 shell since the Vidos are the only ones I have, are the Faaeal Snow Lotus 64 ohms a good choice? I don't have any 64 ohm buds so that's why those intrigued me.

Also, anyone tried these Openeart Metal earbuds before? Any thoughts?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001180479742.html


----------



## Sam L

Sam L said:


> Agreed, the BK2 is really, really different from the st-10s. In my opinion the biggest issue with the BK2 is the aggressiveness of the pinna gain couple with a huge notch at 10k that is one of the biggest I've seen ever. When Tyll describes 10k behavior he often describes that particular region should normalize roughly to where the graph is at 1k. I'm finding that for earbuds it's more in the -3dB to -5dB area below the 1k value.


my bad... I found an old graph of the bk2. I didn't remember it correctly. Notch was accurate, the slope from 1k to 3k isn't steep. I'm going to re-measure it.


----------



## baskingshark

baskingshark said:


> Has anybody tried this earbud? Purported to have beryllium in the driver and quite cheap.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001589119116.html
> 
> ...



Fellow earbud connoisseurs. What is your earbud haul for 11/11?

I bought the above supposed cheap beryllium earbud (wooden shell) and a Earbuds Anonymous earbud. Now, just need to get it smuggled past my wife when they arrive. Good thing is earbuds generally don't come in big boxes, and ain't as obvious as headphones =)


----------



## Sam L

Sam L said:


> my bad... I found an old graph of the bk2. I didn't remember it correctly. Notch was accurate, the slope from 1k to 3k isn't steep. I'm going to re-measure it.


version 1.5 target wavelet and PEQ files for the BK2 is on the earbuds test curve thread.


----------



## Sam L (Nov 13, 2020)

There are a handful of you guys running v1.4 for the Monk Lite 120 ohm.

Here's an updated v1.5:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbud-target-curve-tests.944006/page-5#post-15973252

Let me know how it sounds. I am unable to hear the results since I'm still waiting for a new set to arrive via aliexpress.


----------



## Sam L

baskingshark said:


> Fellow earbud connoisseurs. What is your earbud haul for 11/11?
> 
> I bought the above supposed cheap beryllium earbud (wooden shell) and a Earbuds Anonymous earbud. Now, just need to get it smuggled past my wife when they arrive. Good thing is earbuds generally don't come in big boxes, and ain't as obvious as headphones =)


Mostly replacing the sets that were stolen. Nameless, monk lite 120, monk plus and a couple new ones (all under $9). I didn't re-purchase the LZ A7, though. I miss that set dearly.


----------



## dissociativity

I got the 30 ohm beryllium wooden earbud, actually got my smabat m2 pro DIY with black gold before 11.11, seperate parts ordered seperately
also got a nicehck b40 with mic for calls since voices sound so laid back on them, total opposite of fatiguing


----------



## DAndrew

So I finished cleaning and disinfecting the aiwa : https://i.imgur.com/7u9uu8O.jpg

To be honest I had no expectations from them since the last vintage aiwa I got was like an old school radio, and not to my taste. This one however is really nice, I have misplaced my foam bag so I am listening without any foam and they sound pretty good, especially for vocals


----------



## RikudouGoku

superuser1 said:


> I am waiting for you to get one and enlighten us!


That seems likely.


----------



## theresanarc

There used to be a very popular Fengru Silver didn't there? I think it's this one?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32687542028.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.18973c006XU2PJ&mp=1


----------



## lackOfInspiration

theresanarc said:


> Also, anyone tried these Openeart Metal earbuds before? Any thoughts?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001180479742.html


I have the cheapest of their two models (again it would be nice to give actual names to earbuds) and it is excellent. Like to the point I was not even thinking about EQing them (ended up doing it still but you get the picture). Like the MS16 they benefit from their open designe, so the closed back more expensive version should sound and feel different. It's likely that both use the same driver, and to my ears it's a capable driver. They can handle higher volumes without sounding thin or canny which is a clear advantage over the MS16. They are well built, but heavy, so not the most confortable despite their pretty low profile. I like the cable.
I'm very curious about the closed version!


----------



## talponne

baskingshark said:


> Fellow earbud connoisseurs. What is your earbud haul for 11/11?
> 
> I bought the above supposed cheap beryllium earbud (wooden shell) and a Earbuds Anonymous earbud. Now, just need to get it smuggled past my wife when they arrive. Good thing is earbuds generally don't come in big boxes, and ain't as obvious as headphones =)


Got the Smabat M2 Pro DIY kit and the ST10s Gold driver.
Really excited about these


----------



## furyossa

L


theresanarc said:


> There used to be a very popular Fengru Silver didn't there? I think it's this one?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32687542028.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.18973c006XU2PJ&mp=1


Yes, their name is Tingo TC200,  also Tingo TC300 (label on Aliexpress is not correct) and the best model is Tingo TG-38s. 
And this model is not Tingo, because of shiny shell they call it TC400


----------



## povidlo

baskingshark said:


> Fellow earbud connoisseurs. What is your earbud haul for 11/11?
> 
> I bought the above supposed cheap beryllium earbud (wooden shell) and a Earbuds Anonymous earbud. Now, just need to get it smuggled past my wife when they arrive. Good thing is earbuds generally don't come in big boxes, and ain't as obvious as headphones =)


TMusic EP3 looks nice! Been eyeing EP6 myself but haven't pulled the trigger.

Bit on Dendroaspis Viridis, no pun intended   

Also picked up the widely praised: NiceHCK DIY MX500 (black silver), YINCROW X6 & RW-9.


----------



## digititus

baskingshark said:


> Fellow earbud connoisseurs. What is your earbud haul for 11/11?


I'm so impressed with the Yincrow RW9, I decided to see what the higher end RW-1000 bass version has to offer. Read mixed reviews, but the 11.11 deals made it too tempting


----------



## Sam L

Sam L said:


> version 1.5 target wavelet and PEQ files for the BK2 is on the earbuds test curve thread.


hmm... it might be good to disregard this graph. I'm starting to notice differences between how my files are implemented in peace/apo vs. wavelet. I haven't found a way to measure wavelet output through my laptop, so I graphed the above with peace/apo via rew. I suppose I could go back to audiotools but the android version isn't nearly as readable as the ios version. 

Stay tuned, I'm going to re-measure with the peq values inputted into the qudelix5k (much better implementation to my ears).


----------



## Sam L

Sam L said:


> hmm... it might be good to disregard this graph. I'm starting to notice differences between how my files are implemented in peace/apo vs. wavelet. I haven't found a way to measure wavelet output through my laptop, so I graphed the above with peace/apo via rew. I suppose I could go back to audiotools but the android version isn't nearly as readable as the ios version.
> 
> Stay tuned, I'm going to re-measure with the peq values inputted into the qudelix5k (much better implementation to my ears).



This is a more accurate graph of version 1.5 target compensation for the BK2. If you use my PEQ files, I posted a warning my thread here.


----------



## Sam L

Version 1.5 target
Y**Y*** BK2

Before compensation:


After:


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> Version 1.5 target
> Y**Y*** BK2
> 
> Before compensation:
> ...


Do you plan to do compensation files for Tingo buds? HE150pro maybe?


----------



## Sam L

furyossa said:


> Do you plan to do compensation files for Tingo buds? HE150pro maybe?


Yes, I'll do the HE150pro for sure. Just haven't been able to sit down and plot the curve out. I have the measurements from cenizas.


----------



## Sam L (Nov 13, 2020)

Any interest in doing a virtual earbud meetup?

If there's enough interest, I'd love to get something together quickly before thanksgiving. A possible agenda would be as follows:

pre-meet = allow participants to enter the zoom room up to 30 mins prior to the meetup to chill and introduce ourselves.

meeting agenda (rough draft):
- knowledge dump for people just entering the buds market (10 mins)
- share recent aquisitions and impressions (20 mins)
- share thoughts anything bud related (source, mods, amplification, etc, historical models) - (15 mins)
- ???

Maybe if there's a worthwhile response, we could invite a guest in the future meetup (@ClieOS?, a bud maker from indonesia, a Fiio employee to share their bud R&D???)


----------



## theresanarc

After a couple weeks of listening to the Qian69s, I can say that I understand why they're highly rated but maybe they aren't the right one for me, I prefer a strong emphasis on the vocals since I listen mostly to just indie/alt/pop rock. Probably why I prefer the Qian39s, I've been enjoying the B40s too but they're maybe a bit too bright?

I think I'll go ahead and experiment with that Openheart metal earbud I posted earlier and maybe try another cheapo MX500 shell bud for a different sound signature.


----------



## Blueshound24

Sorry, I posted this before but didn't get much input, so I thought I'd ask again.

I really like the Willsound MK2 *very airy extended treble* and great bass, the mids are present and lively as well.

I wanted to order another MK2, but the MK32 was recommended to try.
Any comparisons/recommendations between the two?


*Or*, any other recommendations on some other earbuds easily found on Amazon USA for less than $100 (give or take) that may be a bit of an upgrade to the MK2?

The shipping charge and time to ship to USA for Willsound is kind of a buzzkill, so looking for a easy buy from Amazon.

TIA


----------



## macunaima

Hey guys its me again, does anyone here know how to get a better fit whith the smabat st-10? Theyre looser on my left ear and the sound is kinda different, i tried to put 2 full foam tips but the trebble suffers too much from it and i lose that sparkle this set have


----------



## theresanarc

Auglamour RX-1s still a good option for non-fatiguing buds or is there something with better value nowadays? They're $23 from the Penon Audio store.


----------



## furyossa

macunaima said:


> Hey guys its me again, does anyone here know how to get a better fit whith the smabat st-10? Theyre looser on my left ear and the sound is kinda different, i tried to put 2 full foam tips but the trebble suffers too much from it and i lose that sparkle this set have


Maybe something from this post can help


----------



## furyossa

theresanarc said:


> Auglamour RX-1s still a good option for non-fatiguing buds or is there something with better value nowadays? They're $23 from the Penon Audio store.


You can read at least the last 10 pages of this thread and you can find many different suggestions. My last order from Penon Audio. This is a review.
And this is the mod


----------



## baskingshark

povidlo said:


> TMusic EP3 looks nice! Been eyeing EP6 myself but haven't pulled the trigger.
> 
> Bit on Dendroaspis Viridis, no pun intended
> 
> Also picked up the widely praised: NiceHCK DIY MX500 (black silver), YINCROW X6 & RW-9.



Nice, we look forward to your Dendroaspsis Viridis impressions with anticipation! 

I am also eyeing the EP6, I like that it is detachable MMCX, not many detachable buds at that price point.



macunaima said:


> Hey guys its me again, does anyone here know how to get a better fit whith the smabat st-10? Theyre looser on my left ear and the sound is kinda different, i tried to put 2 full foam tips but the trebble suffers too much from it and i lose that sparkle this set have



Do u wear it over ear or cable down?

Personally I also find the SMABAT ST10 a bit hard to fit, but I wear it cable down and angle the stem of the earbud about 45 degrees forward and I get a good fit thereafter (so the stem is not totally pointing downwards). Looks weird but I generally use earbuds at home so nobody is gonna see that haha.


----------



## RikudouGoku

povidlo said:


> TMusic EP3 looks nice! Been eyeing EP6 myself but haven't pulled the trigger.
> 
> Bit on Dendroaspis Viridis, no pun intended
> 
> Also picked up the widely praised: NiceHCK DIY MX500 (black silver), YINCROW X6 & RW-9.


Yup, I bit on the viridis myself. So for earbuds I got the Rw-9 and the viridis coming.


----------



## dissociativity

are the smabat black gold drivers this bright on the st-10s?
They're definitely the highest resolution earbud I own, the m2 pro with black gold, but there's definitely a mildly annoying peak and less warmness than the nicehck b40 or qian 69.


----------



## dissociativity

Wish more people owned the 1more e1008, it could definitely benefit from wavelet profiles.


----------



## assassin10000

macunaima said:


> Hey guys its me again, does anyone here know how to get a better fit whith the smabat st-10? Theyre looser on my left ear and the sound is kinda different, i tried to put 2 full foam tips but the trebble suffers too much from it and i lose that sparkle this set have



You could fit a silicone ring under a full foam or a donut foam over a full foam. Either way will increase size but only have 1 layer of foam over the earbud driver.


----------



## cheebs (Nov 13, 2020)

Earbuds vs open back over-ears in terms of soundstage?


----------



## Sam L

cheebs said:


> Earbuds vs open back over-ears in terms of soundstage?


Open back


----------



## WanAudio

Hi guys, just wondering if anyone here have tried JCALLY newest line-up (I assume) of earbuds? The EP05, JC10 and EP01? Had the JC10 and EP01 but I'm not sure if the EP05 worth the extra cash just for a detachable MMCX connector.


----------



## noknok23

Blueshound24 said:


> Sorry, I posted this before but didn't get much input, so I thought I'd ask again.
> 
> I really like the Willsound MK2 *very airy extended treble* and great bass, the mids are present and lively as well.
> 
> ...


I think mk32 sounds really good. Its my favorite under $100,  how much is shipping and price in total? I paid $50 for mine all inc. But the new version is something like 65 or 75. Haven't bought yet.
Shipping was faster than aliexpress.


----------



## robar (Nov 14, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> Sounds like a must-have!
> Are you talking about the drivers in http://aliexpress.com/item/4000281063945.html ?


Sorry for the late answer, yes this is it, I have several feedbacks on this listing as well  I tried these speakers in many shells, all sound good but my current favorite builds are using the simple mx500 shells (sold in 5 pair bundles) and the Qian69 shell. (just for reference, the improvement compared to stock qian69 sound is incredible) I suggest to order at least 2 pairs to be safe and find the best matching pair of speakers. There can be slight variation in sound (a few sound a bit brighter) but fortunately I haven't received any faulty ones from with model so far. (I had problems with other speaker models like the titanium 64ohm, but NSC store is very supportive and always send replacement)


----------



## rprodrigues

theresanarc said:


> There used to be a very popular Fengru Silver didn't there? I think it's this one?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32687542028.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.18973c006XU2PJ&mp=1



TC200 is very good. They deserve a better cable.



robar said:


> Sorry for the late answer, yes this is it, I have several feedbacks on this listing as well  I tried these speakers in many shells, all sound good but my current favorite builds are using the simple mx500 shells (sold in 5 pair bundles) and the Qian69 shell. (just for reference, the improvement compared to stock qian69 sound is incredible) I suggest to order at least 2 pairs to be safe and find the best matching pair of speakers. There can be slight variation in sound (a few sound a bit brighter) but fortunately I haven't received any faulty ones from with model so far. (I had problems with other speaker models like the titanium 64ohm, but NSC store is very supportive and always send replacement)



I ordered 5 pairs and MX500 shells for them! Let's assemble them!
Would you recommend any special type of cables (OFC, OOC, SPC, etc) for them?

Thank you.


----------



## theresanarc

furyossa said:


> You can read at least the last 10 pages of this thread and you can find many different suggestions. My last order from Penon Audio. This is a review.
> And this is the mod



This doesn't really answer the question I initially asked on the last page about Auglamour RX-1s or similar buds but I'll give these a try, they look intriguing.


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Yup, I bit on the viridis myself. So for earbuds I got the Rw-9 and the viridis coming.


very curious about the viridis. I'm not sure you'll prefer the rw9 over the x6, though.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> very curious about the viridis. I'm not sure you'll prefer the rw9 over the x6, though.


Well, the cable on the RW-9 is better than the X6 at least. And it is discontinued so I grabbed it while I could.


----------



## fogside

My toneking dendroaspis veridis is come  The headphones are not heavy, they sit comfortably in the ear. In terms of sound, the stage and positioning of the instruments are good both in width and depth, also excellent separation of instruments - no mess even on extreme music, quite even in frequencies, the bass is fast, biting and unobtrusive, high perfectly worked out in detail - the cymbals and bells are simply amazing and with all the after-sounds, the bass guitar in the compositions is audible and perfectly readable.


----------



## RikudouGoku

fogside said:


> My toneking dendroaspis veridis is come  The headphones are not heavy, they sit comfortably in the ear. In terms of sound, the stage and positioning of the instruments are good both in width and depth, also excellent separation of instruments - no mess even on extreme music, quite even in frequencies, the bass is fast, biting and unobtrusive, high perfectly worked out in detail - the cymbals and bells are simply amazing and with all the after-sounds, the bass guitar in the compositions is audible and perfectly readable.


Do you have any other bud to compare to?


----------



## fogside

RikudouGoku said:


> Do you have any other bud to compare to?


Ve Zen LL , Puresound 100-500, Sone MDR-E472, and a lot of budget earbuds


----------



## RikudouGoku

fogside said:


> Ve Zen LL , Puresound 100-500, Sone MDR-E472, and a lot of budget earbuds


What is the sound signature of the viridis?


----------



## fogside

RikudouGoku said:


> What is the sound signature of the viridis?


IMO warm and smooth


----------



## RikudouGoku

fogside said:


> IMO warm and smooth


Sounds like I should enjoy it then. Thanks.


----------



## robar

rprodrigues said:


> I ordered 5 pairs and MX500 shells for them! Let's assemble them!
> Would you recommend any special type of cables (OFC, OOC, SPC, etc) for them?
> 
> Thank you.


Wow, I hope you'll like them! I'm not a big cable guy myself, just use some cheap but decent 3-4usd ones at the moment.


----------



## furyossa

theresanarc said:


> This doesn't really answer the question I initially asked on the last page about Auglamour RX-1s or similar buds but I'll give these a try, they look intriguing.


If I understood you correctly, you asked for some recommendations for "non-fatiguing" buds? For me personally, earphones with "bright" hights are fatiguing and in some cases with overemphasized bass. The earphones that I recommended are characterized by fast bass, clean mids, wide soundstage, and nice imaging. 
Of course, this is subjective, maybe you are looking for something else,  but on the previous pages there are a lot of good recommendations


----------



## furyossa (Nov 14, 2020)

robar said:


> Wow, I hope you'll like them! I'm not a big cable guy myself, just use some cheap but decent 3-4usd ones at the moment.


You have studied this driver the best so far. I haven't had a chance to get it, but I believe it's really good.


rprodrigues said:


> I ordered 5 pairs and MX500 shells for them! Let's assemble them!
> Would you recommend any special type of cables (OFC, OOC, SPC, etc) for them?


If you didn't plan to build the cable from scratch RY Earphone Store has a nice collection of light and cheap cable for DIY.
I own RY-c10, c11,c12,c15, and not have any problem for now.


----------



## robar (Nov 14, 2020)

furyossa said:


> You have studied this driver the best so far. I haven't had a chance to get it, but I believe it's really good.
> 
> If you didn't plan to make the cable from scratch RY Earphone Store has a nice collection of light and cheap cable for DIY.
> I own RY-c10, c11,c12,c15, and not have any problem for now.


I agree, I also have RY-C10 and it's nice, cklewis and NSC also has nice cheap cables. Anyways, I think we're talking in the wrong thread haha 
@rprodrigues
The basic mx500 set and 19-21 driver creates a nice, tight, slightly analytical sound, and I believe you will be able to play around a lot with the vents and tuning foams with good success.  I have a new build with these drivers, based on the bundled type of mx500 and some vent mod, will share it soon. It has a fun, smoother, warmer sound with punchy midbass, very enjoyable as well.


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Well, the cable on the RW-9 is better than the X6 at least. And it is discontinued so I grabbed it while I could.


Yes the cable is pretty much the same as the old school ue900 cable Logitech released right around the time they acquired UE


----------



## furyossa (Nov 14, 2020)

robar said:


> I agree, I also have RY-C10 and it's nice, cklewis and NSC also has nice cheap cables. Anyways, I think we're talking in the wrong thread haha
> @rprodrigues
> The basic mx500 set and 19-21 driver creates a nice, tight, slightly analytical sound, and I believe you will be able to play around a lot with the vents and tuning foams with good success.  I have a new build with these drivers, based on the bundled type of mx500 and some vent mod, will share it soon. It has a fun, smoother, warmer sound with punchy midbass, very enjoyable as well.


It's good that you noticed, I wanted to tell you right after the first post, but it doesn't matter. I hope they don't mind, this is a thread about earbuds anyway


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> Yes the cable is pretty much the same as the old school ue900 cable Logitech released right around the time they acquired UE


Not familiar with the UE900 nor UE lol.


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Well, the cable on the RW-9 is better than the X6 at least. And it is discontinued so I grabbed it while I could.


Wait, what?! The RW-9 is discontinued? Wow, first the me80 then the RW-9. Really fruatrating


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> Wait, what?! The RW-9 is discontinued? Wow, first the me80 then the RW-9. Really fruatrating


Yeah, according to niceHCK (I asked why they didnt have it) and they said it was discontinued. Better get it while you can!


----------



## digititus

RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah, according to niceHCK (I asked why they didnt have it) and they said it was discontinued. Better get it while you can!


I have 3 pairs!


----------



## Fabi

Blueshound24 said:


> Sorry, I posted this before but didn't get much input, so I thought I'd ask again.
> 
> I really like the Willsound MK2 *very airy extended treble* and great bass, the mids are present and lively as well.
> 
> ...


I own both in MMCX versions.
If we say MK2 have a rather "in your face" sound, MK32 sound more distant, laid back, slightly more detailed and refined.


----------



## macunaima

this willsound mk32  looks very interesting, where can i buy it with international delivery?


----------



## sarkar1990

macunaima said:


> this willsound mk32  looks very interesting, where can i buy it with international delivery?


You may contact WillSound on Facebook.


----------



## sarkar1990

Received the WillSound MK32 Special Edition few days back.

On a quick listen, sound is warm.. and laidback.. 

Will listen to it some more and get back with a detailed view on the buds.


----------



## baskingshark

fogside said:


> My toneking dendroaspis veridis is come  The headphones are not heavy, they sit comfortably in the ear. In terms of sound, the stage and positioning of the instruments are good both in width and depth, also excellent separation of instruments - no mess even on extreme music, quite even in frequencies, the bass is fast, biting and unobtrusive, high perfectly worked out in detail - the cymbals and bells are simply amazing and with all the after-sounds, the bass guitar in the compositions is audible and perfectly readable.



Nice impressions!

How is the subbass extension for a earbud? Sorry basshead here, always looking for better subbass extension in earbuds (my current gold standard is the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold).


----------



## fogside

baskingshark said:


> Nice impressions!
> 
> How is the subbass extension for a earbud? Sorry basshead here, always looking for better subbass extension in earbuds (my current gold standard is the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold).


for bassheads st10s better


----------



## furyossa (Nov 16, 2020)

Double post


----------



## furyossa (Nov 16, 2020)

fogside said:


> How is the subbass extension for a earbud? Sorry basshead here, always looking for better subbass extension in earbuds (my current gold standard is the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold).
> for bassheads st10s better


About  Toneking Dendroaspis 
I think it has a lot to do with the central opening on the front cover, where is mesh.
Reducing this opening would increase the pressure in the space between the diaphragm and the cover, and thus the sub-bass.
Also, the back-vent will help. Does it exist at all?


----------



## antdroid

I dont write a lot of reviews on ear buds, but here's my latest one on the Smabat ST-10S Gold 150 Ohm 
https://www.audiodiscourse.com/2020/11/smabat-st-10s-gold-ear-buds-review.html


----------



## Vannak

furyossa said:


> Speaking of recommendations for 11.11 here are a few models that are characterized by extended freq. ranges, higher impedance, different driver types etc
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32862767390.html (great extension, graphene-coated, mobile-friendly and nice looking buds)
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32821448115.html (probably is the same driver as the previous model, but this model is good for MMCX mod  )
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001623082745.html (another graphene-coated 400ohm, it seems to me that this is a DIY driver which sound really good. looks great)
> ...


Thanks for the links


----------



## gazzington

I have not used earbuds for quite a long while but this morning im using a hugo2 with ve zen omega earbuds.  Sounds fantastic   Are those newer sun earbuds a big upgrade or are their other earbuds that I should look at?


----------



## ImFilippo

I just got my first earbuds (yincrow x6) and with them there are also these to put around (two complete black while the others blue and red pierced in the center).
Should i use them? What's the difference between them?


----------



## jogawag

ImFilippo said:


> I just got my first earbuds (yincrow x6) and with them there are also these to put around (two complete black while the others blue and red pierced in the center).
> Should i use them? What's the difference between them?


Generally, when you wear your earbuds, you put the foams over the earbuds to keep the sound in your ears.
A through hole foam is called donut foam and a non-through hole foam is called full foam.
Full foam emphasizes the bass and slightly reduces the treble while donut foam emphasizes only the bass.
Finally, if you have red and blue foam, use Red for Right and bLue for Left.


----------



## ImFilippo

jogawag said:


> Generally, when you wear your earbuds, you put the foams over the earbuds to keep the sound in your ears.
> A through hole foam is called donut foam and a non-through hole foam is called full foam.
> Full foam emphasizes the bass and slightly reduces the treble while donut foam emphasizes only the bass.
> Finally, if you have red and blue foam, use Red for Right and bLue for Left.


thank you!


----------



## theresanarc

I finally came across another PK shell earbud that's under $50...Willsound PK32 for $43. I was actually looking up the Willsound earbuds which you guys are always recommending but decided against one because I didn't wanna spend more than $20 on an MX500 shell bud since I know I won't use it much. These ones on the other hand look intriguing, I just don't see very many reviews for them anywhere.

https://www.rholupat.com/willsound-buds/pk32-gendhis.html


----------



## Sam L

digititus said:


> I have 3 pairs!


Had I read your post a couple months ago, I would of chuckled, shaking my head, thinking "how silly." I'm not laughing now...     I should of bought a couple pairs of the me80 awhile back.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> Had I read your post a couple months ago, I would of chuckled, shaking my head, thinking "how silly." I'm not laughing now...     I should of bought a couple pairs of the me80 awhile back.


Still in stock at amazon japan: https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B07TC33XB3


----------



## Sam L

baskingshark said:


> Nice impressions!
> 
> How is the subbass extension for a earbud? Sorry basshead here, always looking for better subbass extension in earbuds (my current gold standard is the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold).


To be honest, I don't think you'll ever find something that matches the smabat's bass, really prodigious bass


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Still in stock at amazon japan: https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B07TC33XB3


yeah saw that, my us-based amazon account login doesn't work.   I'm not sure what the international shipping costs would be if they do sell international.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> yeah saw that, my us-based amazon account login doesn't work.   I'm not sure what the international shipping costs would be if they do sell international.


here is my order:





Shipping is actually very cheap considering that they are using dhl express. "import fees deposit" is the 25% VAT that sweden has...


----------



## digititus

Sam L said:


> Had I read your post a couple months ago, I would of chuckled, shaking my head, thinking "how silly." I'm not laughing now...     I should of bought a couple pairs of the me80 awhile back.


I like to share the love. They were gifted to family members


----------



## jogawag (Nov 17, 2020)

theresanarc said:


> I finally came across another PK shell earbud that's under $50...Willsound PK32 for $43. I was actually looking up the Willsound earbuds which you guys are always recommending but decided against one because I didn't wanna spend more than $20 on an MX500 shell bud since I know I won't use it much. These ones on the other hand look intriguing, I just don't see very many reviews for them anywhere.
> 
> https://www.rholupat.com/willsound-buds/pk32-gendhis.html



It's a bit old, but below is a comparative review of each WillSound model. (It is not written by me.)
https://aftersoundblog.wordpress.co...n-english-review-mk1-mk2-mk3-mk300-pk16-pk32/


----------



## chompchomps

Hey guys, 
I'm trying to look for a earbud with a budget of $80.. I'll primarily use it for gaming (When I'm sweaty and do not want to put on headphones yet). Looking for something with more bass and a more comfortable shell than VE's monk plus. 

I currently shortlisted the ZEN lite as the original Zen's sounded amazing and I wish to have something better than the monks. Not sure if there's something out there that you guys can easily recommend?


----------



## lalama

Sam L said:


> yeah saw that, my us-based amazon account login doesn't work.   I'm not sure what the international shipping costs would be if they do sell international.


 
I’m in the US and I picked up a pair of the ME80 off of Amazon Japan for $31 shipped. You have to create a new account on Amazon Japan, as your US Amazon account won’t work.  My order arrived in 7 days (west coast).


----------



## bhima

Sam L said:


> Open back



Technically yes. But what I find is that open back headphones tend to throw back ALL the sound farther around the soundstage. To me, there is less 3D sound or separation between instruments with openbacks that are really wide--or at least this is the case for me with my AKG K7XX that do have what many consider a large sound stage. I don't actually like their presentation of instrument placement even though the stage is larger than the Flares I own or the E5000's I used to own. Honestly, the Final E5000 is near a perfect blend of Soundstage size and instrument placement within that stage.


----------



## theresanarc

chompchomps said:


> Hey guys,
> I'm trying to look for a earbud with a budget of $80.. I'll primarily use it for gaming (When I'm sweaty and do not want to put on headphones yet). Looking for something with more bass and a more comfortable shell than VE's monk plus.
> 
> I currently shortlisted the ZEN lite as the original Zen's sounded amazing and I wish to have something better than the monks. Not sure if there's something out there that you guys can easily recommend?



Do you need a mic? I think the VE Monk Lite 40 ohm comes with a mic'd version and it's not the absolute best for music but very comfortable shell though you have to buy it from their website I think because the mic version is not on AE.

If you don't need a mic then the Qian39 is cheap, has solid bass, and uses that some comfortable shell plus is very good I find for dialogue or music.


----------



## Sam L

chompchomps said:


> Hey guys,
> I'm trying to look for a earbud with a budget of $80.. I'll primarily use it for gaming (When I'm sweaty and do not want to put on headphones yet). Looking for something with more bass and a more comfortable shell than VE's monk plus.
> 
> I currently shortlisted the ZEN lite as the original Zen's sounded amazing and I wish to have something better than the monks. Not sure if there's something out there that you guys can easily recommend?


what platform are you gaming on?


----------



## dissociativity

I've found the qian 69 amazing for gaming personally


----------



## superuser1

@RikudouGoku Are you still planning on getting the Toneking Green Mamba?


----------



## RikudouGoku

superuser1 said:


> @RikudouGoku Are you still planning on getting the Toneking Green Mamba?


Planning? No, I have ordered it already.


----------



## superuser1

RikudouGoku said:


> Planning? No, I have ordered it already.


You are awesome ... can't wait!


----------



## furyossa (Nov 17, 2020)

superuser1 said:


> @RikudouGoku Are you still planning on getting the Toneking Green Mamba?


@ClieOS it’s not here right now so someone should take matters into their own hands. @RikudouGoku is obviously our only hope


----------



## chompchomps

theresanarc said:


> Do you need a mic? I think the VE Monk Lite 40 ohm comes with a mic'd version and it's not the absolute best for music but very comfortable shell though you have to buy it from their website I think because the mic version is not on AE.
> 
> If you don't need a mic then the Qian39 is cheap, has solid bass, and uses that some comfortable shell plus is very good I find for dialogue or music.



I don't really need a mic, I currently use the HD58X and a Modmic attached to it. It goes to my USB DAC with a separate mic and audio input so.. I think no earbud has that feature yet.. So just audio would do. 

I guess the VE Monk Lite is good enough yah? Would the ZEN lite be a good upgrade? with more soundstage and bass?


----------



## chompchomps

dissociativity said:


> I've found the qian 69 amazing for gaming personally



Is this on Aliexpress?


----------



## chompchomps

Sam L said:


> what platform are you gaming on?



PC!


----------



## Sam L

I'm thinking of picking up some 600ohm earbuds, just need to figure out how I'm going to drive them. haha

Has anyone tried any?


----------



## baskingshark

Sam L said:


> I'm thinking of picking up some 600ohm earbuds, just need to figure out how I'm going to drive them. haha
> 
> Has anyone tried any?



The most I've tried is a few 300 ohm buds, yeah they do need amping, but most desktop amps should be powerful enough. Though I realize that actually the sensitivity is the more important component in drivability, the impedance is of a lesser importance for drivability, and maybe another variable is the driver type.

Maybe some physics experts can advise, but I've tried a few IEMs that have sub 100 dB/MW sensitivity, and they were quite a pain to drive eg Final Audio E5000 - Sensitivity: 93dB, but impedance 14Ω, and let's not mention some planars like the Tin P1. On paper the E5000's 14 ohm impedance looks like a pushover to drive, but the low sensitivity is probably the one that is the power hungry component.

Buds are mostly DD, so maybe less variable in driver types, but even among DD they do use different materials, assuming they ain't marketing gimmicks.


----------



## Sam L

baskingshark said:


> The most I've tried is a few 300 ohm buds, yeah they do need amping, but most desktop amps should be powerful enough. Though I realize that actually the sensitivity is the more important component in drivability, the impedance is of a lesser importance for drivability, and maybe another variable is the driver type.
> 
> Maybe some physics experts can advise, but I've tried a few IEMs that have sub 100 dB/MW sensitivity, and they were quite a pain to drive eg Final Audio E5000 - Sensitivity: 93dB, but impedance 14Ω, and let's not mention some planars like the Tin P1. On paper the E5000's 14 ohm impedance looks like a pushover to drive, but the low sensitivity is probably the one that is the power hungry component.
> 
> Buds are mostly DD, so maybe less variable in driver types, but even among DD they do use different materials, assuming they ain't marketing gimmicks.


I've been pondering a p1 purchase for some time but stayed away because I only have dongle dac/amps at the moment. I'll prob either get the ifi zen can or jds atom. Still debating if I'll actually use the zen can in a semi portable manner (usb --> barrel plug cable into battery pack) or just commit to a desktop amp through my computer.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> I've been pondering a p1 purchase for some time but stayed away because I only have dongle dac/amps at the moment. I'll prob either get the ifi zen can or jds atom. Still debating if I'll actually use the zen can in a semi portable manner (usb --> barrel plug cable into battery pack) or just commit to a desktop amp through my computer.


The e1da 9038s should be able to drive the P1.

And maybe you can change the Atom for the Topping L30.


----------



## mochill




----------



## superuser1

mochill said:


>


Impressions please and do take your time. also, is the ear clip absolutely necessary for the bud to stay in?


----------



## lackOfInspiration

baskingshark said:


> The most I've tried is a few 300 ohm buds, yeah they do need amping, but most desktop amps should be powerful enough. Though I realize that actually the sensitivity is the more important component in drivability, the impedance is of a lesser importance for drivability, and maybe another variable is the driver type.
> 
> Maybe some physics experts can advise, but I've tried a few IEMs that have sub 100 dB/MW sensitivity, and they were quite a pain to drive eg Final Audio E5000 - Sensitivity: 93dB, but impedance 14Ω, and let's not mention some planars like the Tin P1. On paper the E5000's 14 ohm impedance looks like a pushover to drive, but the low sensitivity is probably the one that is the power hungry component.
> 
> Buds are mostly DD, so maybe less variable in driver types, but even among DD they do use different materials, assuming they ain't marketing gimmicks.


If you don't know about it yet you can read the Solderdude's article which is very well made. You don't need much more physics than P=UI and U=RI. What I find very painfull nevertheless is to get accurate specs for amps and headphones from Aliexpress


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> I'm thinking of picking up some 600ohm earbuds, just need to figure out how I'm going to drive them. haha
> 
> Has anyone tried any?


Yup. I build these two (400ohm graphene (102dB) and 600ohm beryllium coated (100dB) ). Graphene you can drive with an LG (Quad Dac) phone but 600ohm requires a bit more power.
But I mostly use them with iFi Zen DAC. Both are very well balanced (they have a similar frequency graph), but beryllium has an authoritative low end.
Who knows how theses would sound with yours compensation files


----------



## mochill

superuser1 said:


> Impressions please and do take your time. also, is the ear clip absolutely necessary for the bud to stay in?


Definitely secure with earhook , sound without foam is natural with tight texutured bass and treble is clear and smooth mids are full , sound wide and airy


----------



## Sam L (Nov 17, 2020)

version 1.5 target for the HE 150pro is up here.

**edit**
I don't believe the requester for this file has wavelet running yet. Anyone HE 150pro users with wavelet running, can you let me know how this file sounds? Thank you!

***edit***
This is what my compensation file is doing to the default FR, by the way:


----------



## Sam L (Nov 18, 2020)

chompchomps said:


> PC!


Then I'd recommend grabbing my v1.5 peq file for the monk lite 120ohm and importing that into peace / apo equalizer. You will likely need to tweak the PEQ with the "flatten" *"compress"* feature but in the end you will be rewarded with near TOTL tuning. There are 4 or 5 of us using v1.5 on android devices for that bud and they all agree that the results are pretty damn impressive.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbud-target-curve-tests.944006/page-5#post-15973252


----------



## Sam L

furyossa said:


> Yup. I build these two (400ohm graphene (102dB) and 600ohm beryllium coated (100dB) ). Graphene you can drive with an LG (Quad Dac) phone but 600ohm requires a bit more power.
> But I mostly use them with iFi Zen DAC. Both are very well balanced (they have a similar frequency graph), but beryllium has an authoritative low end.
> Who knows how theses would sound with yours compensation files


Does the zen dac drive the 600ohm well? You don't see usb powered amps driving 600ohm well that often.


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> Does the zen dac drive the 600ohm well? You don't see usb powered amps driving 600ohm well that often.







I don't have 600ohm headphones for testing, but high impedance earphones (150-600ohm) have greater sensitivity and can be driven even on SE output (with or without high gain). 600ohm "Bery" love high gain mode for sure  This is my daily setup. For now, I connect these two with 2xRCA to 3.5mm cable (SE). iFi has a 4.4mm balanced output on the backside and  Samson QH4 has 2 x 6.35mm balanced input. I need to build this kind of cable to get the full potential of these two devices.
I have a few portable devices with Sabre and AK chips but IMHO, iFi's  Burr-Brown chip is the "best of both world"


----------



## rprodrigues (Nov 17, 2020)

These little babies arrived today (16ohm sr2 )...


I'm aware that they need some burn-in to reach their best sound...
Is there a proper way to do the burn-in? Is a pink noise track running for a long time all that I need?


----------



## furyossa (Nov 17, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> These little babies arrived today (16ohm sr2 )...
> 
> 
> I'm aware that they need some burn-in to reach their better sound...
> Is there a proper way to do the burn-in? Is a pink noise track running for a long time all that I need?


Refined sound, sure. See PM
Is this your first build?


----------



## DBaldock9

antdroid said:


> I dont write a lot of reviews on ear buds, but here's my latest one on the Smabat ST-10S Gold 150 Ohm
> https://www.audiodiscourse.com/2020/11/smabat-st-10s-gold-ear-buds-review.html



When I checked my set with an Ohmmeter, they measured about 297-Ohms - which was a bit surprising, since they're advertised as 150-Ohms.


----------



## digititus

DBaldock9 said:


> When I checked my set with an Ohmmeter, they measured about 297-Ohms - which was a bit surprising, since they're advertised as 150-Ohms.


150 for each bud


----------



## rprodrigues (Nov 18, 2020)

deleted

wrong thread...


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Nov 18, 2020)

7 HZ (Seven Hertz) P-twos Beatles
Driver: NANO ZnO Crystal Diaphragm





https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001764783264.html


----------



## baskingshark

Alex.Grimm said:


> 7 HZ (Seven Hertz) P-twos Beatles
> Driver: NANO ZnO Crystal Diaphragm
> 
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001764783264.html



Dang that looks like the shower head in my toilet. I think this brand also made the HZ7 i77, i88 and i99 IEMs? Seemed to have a bit of a cult following for the IEMs but I think too expensive for most to do a blind purchase.


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> It is not my build...
> I ordered them from Chitty's Store  (www.aliexpress.com/item/32801646835.html)


Wrong thread again


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> Dang that looks like the shower head in my toilet. I think this brand also made the HZ7 i77, i88 and i99 IEMs? Seemed to have a bit of a cult following for the IEMs but I think too expensive for most to do a blind purchase.


They are very reminiscent of BGVP DX5.


----------



## furyossa

DBaldock9 said:


> When I checked my set with an Ohmmeter, they measured about 297-Ohms - which was a bit surprising, since they're advertised as 150-Ohms.


They got a little carried away as they rolled the voice coil


----------



## KeyStar (Nov 18, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Fellow earbud connoisseurs. What is your earbud haul for 11/11?
> 
> 
> 
> I bought the above supposed cheap beryllium earbud (wooden shell) and a Earbuds Anonymous earbud. Now, just need to get it smuggled past my wife when they arrive. Good thing is earbuds generally don't come in big boxes, and ain't as obvious as headphones =)


Just burning them in and yes you get that beryllium kick straight of the bat..Waterfront - Simple Minds,The Rover - Zep ..then Held together by gravity- Carbon Based lifeforms ..more I listen there more I'm impressed needs some burning in but female vocals are great and great so far with Classical and folk.
Impressive so far I'll say.


----------



## Sam L

KeyStar said:


> Just burning them in and yes you get that beryllium kick straight of the bat..Waterfront - Simple Minds,The Rover - Zep ..then Held together - gravity Carbon Based lifeforms ..more I listen there more I'm impressed needs some burning in but female vocals are great and great so far with Classical and folk.
> Impressive so far I'll say.


That wooden shell bud looks fantastic. I mostly re-purchased buds that were stolen -- k's nameless, monk lite 120, qian39.


----------



## Sam L

baskingshark said:


> Fellow earbud connoisseurs. What is your earbud haul for 11/11?
> 
> I bought the above supposed cheap beryllium earbud (wooden shell) and a Earbuds Anonymous earbud. Now, just need to get it smuggled past my wife when they arrive. Good thing is earbuds generally don't come in big boxes, and ain't as obvious as headphones =)


lol  I saw your pic in someone else's post and didn't realize that the wood shell bud is $13... thought it was $40 or $50. the value prop of buds is so awesome!


----------



## KeyStar

Sam L said:


> That wooden shell bud looks fantastic. I mostly re-purchased buds that were stolen -- k's nameless, monk lite 120, qian39.


One of my favourite chillstep/dupstep tracks which I no with a passion Mr FijiWiji - Cynical (feat. CoMa) I've never heard it sound so spot on an earbud,bass,miss,treble just sound full stage is also wide and anything with atmosphere just reasonates.
The wooden seems well made and construction is solid cable seems decent to.


----------



## baskingshark

Sam L said:


> lol  I saw your pic in someone else's post and didn't realize that the wood shell bud is $13... thought it was $40 or $50. the value prop of buds is so awesome!



I bought that wooden beryllium one at $11 on 11/11 LOL. Thanks @KeyStar for your positive impressions, blind purchased it cause it looked so nice. Still waiting for it.

I'm actually considering getting their higher end graphene $30 USD 400 ohm wooden bud: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001623082745.html
Haha hope it will be discounted sufficiently on Black Friday.

Yeah @Sam L , agreed earbuds have greater price to performance ratio to IEMs, especially at the sub $20 region. Nowadays, I seem to be using earbuds at home more than IEMs, cause of their bigger soundstage and generally good timbre.


----------



## KeyStar (Nov 18, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> I bought that wooden beryllium one at $11 on 11/11 LOL. Thanks @KeyStar for your positive impressions, blind purchased it cause it looked so nice. Still waiting for it.
> 
> I'm actually considering getting their higher end graphene $30 USD 400 ohm wooden bud: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001623082745.html
> Haha hope it will be discounted sufficiently on Black Friday.
> ...


Yes and seeing there's a sale on the 23rd it is tempting looking at that,I've over 40 earbuds and must say these are the first earbuds the made me sit up and take notice straight away in a long time can't wait for you to hear them and see what you think.
Not mentioned before but isolation is excellent.👍


----------



## KeyStar (Nov 18, 2020)

Sam L said:


> lol  I saw your pic in someone else's post and didn't realize that the wood shell bud is $13... thought it was $40 or $50. the value prop of buds is so awesome!


Value and Quality your spot on with that with earbuds just love them, iem I'm very picky with them as sometimes there not very comfortable and my ears are getting old lol.
Earbuds are like old friends and they can make you smile to as In most circumstances they give so much for such little cost.


----------



## Sam L (Nov 18, 2020)

*How to make your Nicehck B40's sound 2.58X better (windows 10 users)*

- install apo equalizer and the peace gui
- download the peq file here. Set your pre amp value in peace to -15dB

do this:



and it will compensate in this manner:



sublime sound!


----------



## theresanarc (Nov 18, 2020)

I'm gonna try installing that Sam L and applying to my B40s, I had Viper4Windows previously but it no longer seems to be working with Windows 10. I'm also hopeless and confused at EQs and stuff so it's nice to just have a visual I can copy.

edit: Tried it, too much treble.


----------



## Sam L

theresanarc said:


> I'm gonna try installing that Sam L and applying to my B40s, I had Viper4Windows previously but it no longer seems to be working with Windows 10. I'm also hopeless and confused at EQs and stuff so it's nice to just have a visual I can copy.
> 
> edit: Tried it, too much treble.


How many times did you press "compress"?


----------



## mochill

Alex.Grimm said:


> 7 HZ (Seven Hertz) P-twos Beatles
> Driver: NANO ZnO Crystal Diaphragm
> 
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001764783264.html


$204 , I'll wait for cheaper price 😅


----------



## Sam L

theresanarc said:


> I'm gonna try installing that Sam L and applying to my B40s, I had Viper4Windows previously but it no longer seems to be working with Windows 10. I'm also hopeless and confused at EQs and stuff so it's nice to just have a visual I can copy.
> 
> edit: Tried it, too much treble.


Thanks for your feedback. I have two observations:

1. I've noticed that the peq files sometimes do not provide good results in peace/apo. With the wavelet files, the general consensus is the sweet spot across all the earbud models is 40% to 75% eq strength. I expect for some earbuds that the same approach would be required with the peq settings in peace. This means the "compress" button has to be pressed anywhere from 2 to 7 times to achieve that "sweet spot," depending on how much is being corrected. 

2. There's some wonkiness in my measurements of the b40 in the upper treble region that is resulting in an over-correction. I'll likely have to re-measure the b40, but I'll hold off until my non-mic version arrives via aliexpress. Additionally, I might also have to apply general tweaks to4 the 3k to 4k area and 9k region for the version 1.6 target curve.


----------



## cenizas

Some more frequency responses
Edifier H180:




Tingo TC200/Fengru SIlver:


----------



## baskingshark

cenizas said:


> Some more frequency responses
> Edifier H180:
> 
> Tingo TC200/Fengru SIlver:



For the Tingo TC200, is the 6 kHz area a coupler resonsance peak?

Anyways I think Tingo TC200 has good imaging and soundstage and tonality, but a dealbreaker for me is that I find its timbre for acoustic instruments quite artificial. Might be a good set for all other genres other than those that have predominantly acoustic instruments. I know it is being hyped to the moon in some other earbuds FB threads, but unfortunately I listen to a lot of jazz and classical, so it gets the least airtime of my earbuds.


----------



## Vannak

baskingshark said:


> For the Tingo TC200, is the 6 kHz area a coupler resonsance peak?
> 
> Anyways I think Tingo TC200 has good imaging and soundstage and tonality, but a dealbreaker for me is that I find its timbre for acoustic instruments quite artificial. Might be a good set for all other genres other than those that have predominantly acoustic instruments. I know it is being hyped to the moon in some other earbuds FB threads, but unfortunately I listen to a lot of jazz and classical, so it gets the least airtime of my earbuds.


Hello
I am new with this earbuds 
I would like your suggestions with the beginner earbuds sub 50 with nice (accurate) timbre for jazz and acoustic 
Right now I am using the kbear stellar and prefer it's shape (MX500?) 
Thanks in advance 
Added 
I also have the smabat m1 pro but I don't like the shape 😕


----------



## baskingshark

Vannak said:


> Hello
> I am new with this earbuds
> I would like your suggestions with the beginner earbuds sub 50 with nice (accurate) timbre for jazz and acoustic
> Right now I am using the kbear stellar and prefer it's shape (MX500?)
> ...



Haha maybe the rest can give their advise too as I'm rather new to earbuds (less than 1 year experience with em). I like KBear stellar too, very good value for the price.

Some sets u can read about would be the BK2, RY4S 300 ohm, Faaeal Datura Pro. I find the timbre on those rather good for sub $20 usd.
@KeyStar has good things to say about the beryllium wooden earbud ($13 usd normally, but can be lower during sales). I bought one on 11/11, still waiting for it with anticipation.


----------



## jogawag

Vannak said:


> Hello
> I am new with this earbuds
> I would like your suggestions with the beginner earbuds sub 50 with nice (accurate) timbre for jazz and acoustic
> Right now I am using the kbear stellar and prefer it's shape (MX500?)
> ...



Earbuds for jazz and acoustic with MX500-type shells for sub $50, I can recommend the yincrow rw-9 (about $18), which is the smooth and sophisticated version of the Vido family (KBear stellar, NICEHCK traceless, yincrow X6).
If you want to buy it, be quick about it as it is no longer in production.


----------



## KeyStar

Vannak said:


> Hello
> I am new with this earbuds
> I would like your suggestions with the beginner earbuds sub 50 with nice (accurate) timbre for jazz and acoustic
> Right now I am using the kbear stellar and prefer it's shape (MX500?)
> ...


Well because you love the MX500 shell type there is a great deal of choice but for your needs there are plenty of buds that you will be happy with and the stellar was a good choice as it has a great timbre and a slightly vido sound to them they certainly are good but poor cableing to the bud as it's s bit thin.
Also with earbuds its not you have to spend a fortune to get great sound..infact the sound benefits are minimal as you go up the price scale but there a few that are amazing.
My recs for you for jazz,acoustic.


RY4S.

YINCROW X6.

FAAEAL Rosemary 150ohms (Amping needed to make these shine.)

FAAEALSnow-lotus 1.0+/1.0 Plus Blue Commemorative Edition.

TMUSIC Earphones  Beryllium Diaphragm Wired Bass Earbuds (wooden)..these have a great all-round sound and bass..yes decent bass on an earbud my favourite new earbud in a longtime.
They also have a more expensive grapheme version that may have potential.


----------



## Vannak

baskingshark said:


> Haha maybe the rest can give their advise too as I'm rather new to earbuds (less than 1 year experience with em). I like KBear stellar too, very good value for the price.
> 
> Some sets u can read about would be the BK2, RY4S 300 ohm, Faaeal Datura Pro. I find the timbre on those rather good for sub $20 usd.
> @KeyStar has good things to say about the beryllium wooden earbud ($13 usd normally, but can be lower during sales). I bought one on 11/11, still waiting for it with anticipation.


Thanks!


----------



## Vannak

jogawag said:


> Earbuds for jazz and acoustic with MX500-type shells for sub $50, I can recommend the yincrow rw-9 (about $18), which is the smooth and sophisticated version of the Vido family (KBear stellar, NICEHCK traceless, yincrow X6).
> If you want to buy it, be quick about it as it is no longer in production.


Thanks! 
I buy one now!


----------



## cenizas

baskingshark said:


> For the Tingo TC200, is the 6 kHz area a coupler resonsance peak?
> 
> Anyways I think Tingo TC200 has good imaging and soundstage and tonality, but a dealbreaker for me is that I find its timbre for acoustic instruments quite artificial. Might be a good set for all other genres other than those that have predominantly acoustic instruments. I know it is being hyped to the moon in some other earbuds FB threads, but unfortunately I listen to a lot of jazz and classical, so it gets the least airtime of my earbuds.


No it's not, that's just the character of the bud. I also find the midrange tonality weird, I think that 6k peak followed by a treble shelf is doing that, technically it's ok, but similarly it doesn't get much eartime on my end due to the off timbre and tonality. Maybe eq can fix it since the driver seems quite capable.


----------



## KeyStar

jogawag said:


> Earbuds for jazz and acoustic with MX500-type shells for sub $50, I can recommend the yincrow rw-9 (about $18), which is the smooth and sophisticated version of the Vido family (KBear stellar, NICEHCK traceless, yincrow X6).
> If you want to buy it, be quick about it as it is no longer in production.


Yes the RW9 is a great bud I have days I like it more that the X6 and days when the X6 has the upper hand.🙂


----------



## baskingshark

cenizas said:


> No it's not, that's just the character of the bud. I also find the midrange tonality weird, I think that 6k peak followed by a treble shelf is doing that, technically it's ok, but similarly it doesn't get much eartime on my end due to the off timbre and tonality. Maybe eq can fix it since the driver seems quite capable.



K thanks for the input. Ya i tried EQing the Tingo TC200, it can take EQ well, but EQ doesn't fix the timbre. If a flute don't sound like a flute, it doesn't haha. Will probably sell it away.

Anyways wanna say appreciate yours and @Sam L 's earbud EQs and graphs and all the good advise about buds from the rest of the folks in this thread. I have to say this earbuds thread is one of the most helpful and friendly threads here on headfi.

Good thing about buds is the entry level is so low compared to other transducers, like even $1 can give happiness in the vido. Sub $20 can give superb sound and there's so many options and unknown gems to unearth on places like taobao and aliexpress. Even TOTL buds (which admittedly i haven't tried) can be gotten at $100 - 200, which would be entry midfi level for IEMs.


----------



## LordZero

After almost an year of everyday use, my bk2 are doing a strang buzz. They didn't have the sound sig that i liked, but for watching youtube, bed, movies, etc, they were amazing, very confy and flexible cable, nice to hear. 
I doubt they have 1 year warranty, so i need a new replacement.

Is there a better thing that the bk2 with a flexible cable at the same price? I dig the OPENHEART earbuds, but are they good? Or I am better of buying another bk2?

Btw, tried the bk2 cable with the Vido MMCX, very confy but they got really shouty.


----------



## jogawag

LordZero said:


> After almost an year of everyday use, my bk2 are doing a strang buzz. They didn't have the sound sig that i liked, but for watching youtube, bed, movies, etc, they were amazing, very confy and flexible cable, nice to hear.
> I doubt they have 1 year warranty, so i need a new replacement.
> 
> Is there a better thing that the bk2 with a flexible cable at the same price? I dig the OPENHEART earbuds, but are they good? Or I am better of buying another bk2?
> ...



The bk2 has a strange peak at 12kHz, which may make the treble jarring. Also, the attached cable of bk2 is silver-plated, so the treble is emphasized.
So I use the following MMCX single crystal copper cable (about $ 5) on bk2 to increase the bass and soften the treble.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32977455076.html

I think using this cable for your Vido MMCX will also help soften the treble.

Also, I saw on another site that OpenHeart is good, but this attached cable is also silver-plated.

By the way, where did you buy your Vido MMCX? Or is it DIY?


----------



## LordZero

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html


jogawag said:


> The bk2 has a strange peak at 12kHz, which may make the treble jarring. Also, the attached cable of bk2 is silver-plated, so the treble is emphasized.
> So I use the following MMCX single crystal copper cable (about $ 5) on bk2 to increase the bass and soften the treble.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32977455076.html
> 
> ...



Thank you! that cable looks nice, how is the flexibility compared with the bk2 original cable?


jogawag said:


> By the way, where did you buy your Vido MMCX? Or is it DIY?



Sorry, it was a gift from a user here, when i bought a earbud from him.
I think it is a RY4S, but is the same thing as Vido, right?
I think it is this one:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html


----------



## jogawag (Nov 19, 2020)

LordZero said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html
> 
> Thank you! that cable looks nice, how is the flexibility compared with the bk2 original cable?


That's a bit stiff.



LordZero said:


> Sorry, it was a gift from a user here, when i bought a earbud from him.
> I think it is a RY4S, but is the same thing as Vido, right?
> I think it is this one:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html


Eh, RY4S uses Vido's driver? I did not know...


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> Eh, RY4S uses Vido's driver? I did not know...


Normal version of RY4S probably uses vido's, but "PLUS" no.


----------



## SiggyFraud

If one wanted to try a 150 Ohm earbud, would FAAEAL Rosemary be a good first choice? It was mentioned just a few posts back, and they have some really good reviews on AE. I was also thinking about picking up these 15.4mm drivers (1, 2), since I think that they're the same as in the Rosemarys.
I'll appreciate any input about the FAAEALs or the drivers


----------



## macunaima

Any thoughts on the ourart ti7 ? Looks very interesting


----------



## Sam L

Sam L said:


> *How to make your Nicehck B40's sound 2.58X better (windows 10 users)*
> 
> - install apo equalizer and the peace gui
> - download the peq file here. Set your pre amp value in peace to -15dB
> ...


Ok, I know what's going on with peace/apo vs. wavelet implementation of my files. For some measurements the adjustments required beyond 13k to match my target curve are so dramatic that it affects a number of things negatively in the output values. The biggest hit is to tonality past 5k to 20k. For buds that measure with less drop off in the brilliance range the compensation values are accurate.

What this means is that for a number of buds, I'm going to have to compensate to my target up to 10k to maintain accuracy in my PEQ files. Wavelet seems to be more forgiving for some reason.

Here are the correct B40 compensation files, v.1.5 bass edition. I'm hoping wrap up a neutral bass version 1.5 today and start generating correction files for my most listened to buds (to start) -- em5, rambo ii, x6.

@theresanarc, try this file out. Still stay with -15dB for preamp and start with hitting the "compress" button 3 times. Let me know what you think.


----------



## Sam L

KeyStar said:


> One of my favourite chillstep/dupstep tracks which I no with a passion Mr FijiWiji - Cynical (feat. CoMa) I've never heard it sound so spot on an earbud,bass,miss,treble just sound full stage is also wide and anything with atmosphere just reasonates.
> The wooden seems well made and construction is solid cable seems decent to.



Hmmm, you're doing an excellent job of selling the merits of this bud. Do you have wavelet? If you do, I'll buy the bud, measure it and make compensation files if you agree to give input. I'm curious if I can improve on the sound stage even more.


----------



## Sam L

cenizas said:


> No it's not, that's just the character of the bud. I also find the midrange tonality weird, I think that 6k peak followed by a treble shelf is doing that, technically it's ok, but similarly it doesn't get much eartime on my end due to the off timbre and tonality. Maybe eq can fix it since the driver seems quite capable.


Even without listening to the bud, I'm almost 100% sure you are correct. On top of your observation, midrange deficiency is already an inherent flaw with earbuds in their default tuning.


----------



## Sam L

KeyStar said:


> Yes the RW9 is a great bud I have days I like it more that the X6 and days when the X6 has the upper hand.🙂


Yeah, I have the same feelings about those two buds. But if I had to choose one, I'd still go with the x6. Everyone needs to get the rw9 before they are all gone.


----------



## Sam L

baskingshark said:


> K thanks for the input. Ya i tried EQing the Tingo TC200, it can take EQ well, but EQ doesn't fix the timbre. If a flute don't sound like a flute, it doesn't haha. Will probably sell it away.
> 
> Anyways wanna say appreciate yours and @Sam L 's earbud EQs and graphs and all the good advise about buds from the rest of the folks in this thread. I have to say this earbuds thread is one of the most helpful and friendly threads here on headfi.
> 
> Good thing about buds is the entry level is so low compared to other transducers, like even $1 can give happiness in the vido. Sub $20 can give superb sound and there's so many options and unknown gems to unearth on places like taobao and aliexpress. Even TOTL buds (which admittedly i haven't tried) can be gotten at $100 - 200, which would be entry midfi level for IEMs.


Agreed, this is a great thread. It would be awesome if we all could turn this into the most watched/active thread on headfi -- all in the effort to push the value and advantages of buds to the audiophile world at large. How awesome would it be if we could be a part of creating global demand (outside of china/indonesia/philippines for buds and see manufacturers respond in kind and start innovating on the format. That would be so fun to see.

I'll make some eq files for the tc200 later this morning and see if there's any improvement.

I completely agree, $20 and under should be the entry point for new earbuds users. No need to go beyond that, especially if they use wavelet. One last thing, @baskingshark thank you for the kind words. Like you, I'm fairly new to buds. It all started with the pandemic and you were helpful in my education with your quick response to my first post in here. I appreciate your post on sizes. It really helped to get a sense of how to navigate the world of buds.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> Agreed, this is a great thread. It would be awesome if we all could turn this into the most watched/active thread on headfi -- all in the effort to push the value and advantages of buds to the audiophile world at large. How awesome would it be if we could be a part of creating global demand (outside of china/indonesia/philippines for buds and see manufacturers respond in kind and start innovating on the format. That would be so fun to see.
> 
> I'll make some eq files for the tc200 later this morning and see if there's any improvement.
> 
> I completely agree, $20 and under should be the entry point for new earbuds users. No need to go beyond that, especially if they use wavelet. One last thing, @baskingshark thank you for the kind words. Like you, I'm fairly new to buds. It all started with the pandemic and you were helpful in my education with your quick response to my first post in here. I appreciate your post on sizes. It really helped to get a sense of how to navigate the world of buds.


I agree with @baskingshark that EQ doesnt fix timbre, it can help with the overall naturality of the sound due to it making the tonality better for that particular instrument. But EQ cant fix timbre unfortunately.


----------



## rprodrigues

SiggyFraud said:


> If one wanted to try a 150 Ohm earbud, would FAAEAL Rosemary be a good first choice? It was mentioned just a few posts back, and they have some really good reviews on AE. I was also thinking about picking up these 15.4mm drivers (1, 2), since I think that they're the same as in the Rosemarys.
> I'll appreciate any input about the FAAEALs or the drivers




There might be some direction here (EA group on facebook)


----------



## Sam L

RW-9 wavelet and PEQ files v.1.5 target is up here.

Let me know what you think!


----------



## Sam L

time to give the Smabat s-10s some love...

wavelet and PEQ files, v1.5, are uploaded here.


----------



## Sam L

Let's have some fun! (well, fun for me and one other individual)  

Any wavelet users of my test curves, let me know what bud you use and I'll generate my first v1.5 bass neutral version for your bud (provided it's one I have a graph of.) Let me know!


----------



## assassin10000

macunaima said:


> Any thoughts on the ourart ti7 ? Looks very interesting



IIRC from prior posts amazing mids and soundstage, but polite treble and bass is either very light or adequate depending on fit and your sound signature preferences. 

I had 2 of the ACG which had the brighter treble of the sister earbuds.


----------



## sebek

@baskingshark where is your post on sizes?

Are there any earbuds with a 2 pin connector that I can use on balanced output with the 2.5mm balanced cables I use for the iems?

Besides this feature I'd like something with:

- Very large soundstage
- Natural timbre
- Good technicalities and detail
- Able to keep up with fast music like Metal


----------



## RikudouGoku

sebek said:


> @baskingshark where is your post on sizes?
> 
> Are there any earbuds with a 2 pin connector that I can use on balanced output with the 2.5mm balanced cables I use for the iems?
> 
> ...


Do you mean this post?
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3207#post-15645387

I havent seen any earbuds with 2 pin connectors, its quite rare that they even got replaceable cables at all and if they do it is mmcx.
(you could use a mmcx to 2pin adapter though.)


----------



## assassin10000

sebek said:


> @baskingshark where is your post on sizes?
> 
> Are there any earbuds with a 2 pin connector that I can use on balanced output with the 2.5mm balanced cables I use for the iems?
> 
> ...



Rose Maria and Masya MK2 are 2-pin, but they are pricier. I'm not certain how well they'd do with metal and fast music though.


----------



## sebek

RikudouGoku said:


> Do you mean this post?
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3207#post-15645387
> 
> I havent seen any earbuds with 2 pin connectors, its quite rare that they even got replaceable cables at all and if they do it is mmcx.
> (you could use a mmcx to 2pin adapter though.)


Yes thanks, very useful

No 2 pins then, MCX generally try to avoid them as I have read in reviews that it is fragile and tends to break easily

Can an earbud with MCX connector still be used on balanced output with a normal NICEHCK MCX 2.5 mm cable?


----------



## RikudouGoku

sebek said:


> Yes thanks, very useful
> 
> No 2 pins then, MCX generally try to avoid them as I have read in reviews that it is fragile and tends to break easily
> 
> Can an earbud with MCX connector still be used on balanced output with a normal NICEHCK MCX 2.5 mm cable?


yes it works, if you got a 2.5mm or a 4.4mm mmcx cable it will work. 

I avoid changing cables on mmcx iems/buds because they tend to get looser and looser and then in the end they can detach by gravity itself.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Btw I know this isnt an earbud but I can still recommend it to bud users. 
The Koss KSC75, I just finished my review on it and it sounds amazing for acoustic music.
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ko...one-headphones.6373/reviews#item-review-24765

(comparison with the NiceHCK DIY MX500 is in the review.)


----------



## assassin10000 (Nov 19, 2020)

sebek said:


> Yes thanks, very useful
> 
> No 2 pins then, MCX generally try to avoid them as I have read in reviews that it is fragile and tends to break easily
> 
> Can an earbud with MCX connector still be used on balanced output with a normal NICEHCK MCX 2.5 mm cable?



With individual pieces the earbuds being balanced or not is dependant on the cable.

If you get MMCX to 2-pin adapters and leave them attatched to MMCX buds you can freely swap 2-pin cables, without disconnecting the MMCX adapters from the earbuds. This would help prevent excess wear or potential failure.


I've had very problems with MMCX but ymmv. I tend to use split style upgraded MMCX cable ends that don't have a looseness problem and I'm not one for cable swapping. I do however swap which earbuds I use on my BT20S a fair bit, with no issues (either fingernail pinch or with removal tools).


----------



## LordZero

RikudouGoku said:


> Btw I know this isnt an earbud but I can still recommend it to bud users.
> The Koss KSC75, I just finished my review on it and it sounds amazing for acoustic music.
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ko...one-headphones.6373/reviews#item-review-24765
> 
> (comparison with the NiceHCK DIY MX500 is in the review.)



Ordered them yesterday with some yaxi pads 😁 Love the Porta pro, but find them too dark.

 Great review! I was afraid of them being too bright, but now i can't wait!


----------



## RikudouGoku

LordZero said:


> Ordered them yesterday with some yaxi pads 😁 Love the Porta pro, but find them too dark.
> 
> Great review! I was afraid of them being too bright, but now i can't wait!


Thanks!

I doubt many people will have problems with it being too bright despite the very low bass quantity.


----------



## DBaldock9

RikudouGoku said:


> Do you mean this post?
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3207#post-15645387
> 
> I havent seen any earbuds with 2 pin connectors, its quite rare that they even got replaceable cables at all and if they do it is mmcx.
> (you could use a mmcx to 2pin adapter though.)





assassin10000 said:


> Rose Maria and Masya MK2 are 2-pin, but they are pricier. I'm not certain how well they'd do with metal and fast music though.



The two earbuds that I've got, which have 2-pin connectors, are the VE Zen 2.0 ZOE and the VE Asura 2.0s AOE.
I haven't checked the VE website recently, so I don't know whether Lee is still selling these models.


----------



## theresanarc

Sam L said:


> Ok, I know what's going on with peace/apo vs. wavelet implementation of my files. For some measurements the adjustments required beyond 13k to match my target curve are so dramatic that it affects a number of things negatively in the output values. The biggest hit is to tonality past 5k to 20k. For buds that measure with less drop off in the brilliance range the compensation values are accurate.
> 
> What this means is that for a number of buds, I'm going to have to compensate to my target up to 10k to maintain accuracy in my PEQ files. Wavelet seems to be more forgiving for some reason.
> 
> ...



I wouldn't call it bassy but it does sound better now. Vocals sound better and everything is a bit clearer.

What's the reasoning behind turning the pre-amp down to -15?


----------



## baskingshark

Sam L said:


> Agreed, this is a great thread. It would be awesome if we all could turn this into the most watched/active thread on headfi -- all in the effort to push the value and advantages of buds to the audiophile world at large. How awesome would it be if we could be a part of creating global demand (outside of china/indonesia/philippines for buds and see manufacturers respond in kind and start innovating on the format. That would be so fun to see.
> 
> I'll make some eq files for the tc200 later this morning and see if there's any improvement.
> 
> I completely agree, $20 and under should be the entry point for new earbuds users. No need to go beyond that, especially if they use wavelet. One last thing, @baskingshark thank you for the kind words. Like you, I'm fairly new to buds. It all started with the pandemic and you were helpful in my education with your quick response to my first post in here. I appreciate your post on sizes. It really helped to get a sense of how to navigate the world of buds.



I have tried introducing earbuds to some audiophiles at a local audiophile meetup (before covid screwed everything). Most of em gave a snob face and declined to even try it. Their general impression is that earbuds are inferior IEMs/headphones, with no isolation and no bass, and are mostly cheap stuff bundled with smartphones. And to make matters worse, those that did try it at the meetups can't get good sound quality due to the lack of isolation, so they walked away reinforcing their belief that earbuds are cheap stuff.

I admit I was one of em previously, I looked down on earbuds for a decade or so. But thanks to @mbwilson111 who introduced earbuds to me last year, this is an awesome rabbithole. Earbuds are pretty cheap compared to cans and IEMs as we discussed, and most of them have very good timbre and soundstage compared to IEMs. Isolation is lacking yeah, and subbass may have a roll off on most earbuds, but I really like them as a substitute for headphones as it is too hot to use headphones in my country for long sessions.

I have a feeling earbuds will remain quite niche for the foreseeable future, but so be it, we can enjoy our little bubble of bliss here discussing these little gems. Sometimes if things get overhyped and famous, who knows, will sellers jack up their prices? Or start churning out weekly sidegrade iterations of earbuds like KZ, and go for quantity over quality?


----------



## Sam L

theresanarc said:


> I wouldn't call it bassy but it does sound better now. Vocals sound better and everything is a bit clearer.
> 
> What's the reasoning behind turning the pre-amp down to -15?


To avoid distortion. You can raise that if you like but my guess is that it won't be able to go higher than - 7 dB without distortion. In peace there's a meter that shows if clipping is occurring. You can use that to guage your computer 's tolerance.


----------



## Sam L

theresanarc said:


> I wouldn't call it bassy but it does sound better now. Vocals sound better and everything is a bit clearer.
> 
> What's the reasoning behind turning the pre-amp down to -15?


thanks for giving it a go. My main goal is to clean up lower mid bleed and bring some additional clarity with the hope of increasing soundstage.


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> To avoid distortion. You can raise that if you like but my guess is that it won't be able to go higher than - 7 dB without distortion. In peace there's a meter that shows if clipping is occurring. You can use that to guage your computer 's tolerance.


So with the PEQ files, we need to setup a preamp value under -6dB (around -7dB)?


----------



## chinmie

haven't posted here for a while now, i hope everyone's doing well 

i haven't purchased any new earbuds, I've seem to settled in with my existing collections for now. 

i do however purchased some TWS earbuds recently, the Soundpeats Trueair2 and Tronsmart Onyx Ace. i can say they are quite good sounding for the price. i especially like the more "analog" and airy sounding Onyx Ace, while the Trueair2 sounded more like an IEM and more brittle on the treble for my taste, but still good sounding. i even like the Onyx Ace more than my old Sabbat X12

the only problem that i have with both of them is they both sometimes have hiccups in connection, especially the Trueair2, which even when i touch the stem to adjust in my ears would cause the signal to drop in one of them. the Onyx Ace have much less signal dropouts, but still more frequent compared to my other IEM TWS. it might be because of my older phone and tablet, but still worth to mention


----------



## rprodrigues (Nov 20, 2020)

deleted.

Sorry


----------



## emgeebee

I've just started using buds, thanks to working from home and not needing isolation on the train or in the office. I bought some yincrow rw-9, which sound great for the price so thanks to everyone who has recommended those in earlier posts! I was thinking about trying to go up the ladder a little though, but its difficult to find direct comparisons of the buds at the top of the tree. Everyone seems to love the st10s (black and gold), but how do they compare to the new fiio's, the chacone's, or even the 1more E1008 (the most easily available for me)?

My source is a chord mojo and I enjoy the sound signature from my yincrow's, and also my nighthawks and the various B&O over ears that I have...

tia for any insights


----------



## Sam L

furyossa said:


> So with the PEQ files, we need to setup a preamp value under -6dB (around -7dB)?


It varies depending on the correction values in the compensation file (as well as the headroom required). Autoeq generates a log file of sorts that gives guidance as to what it things the preamp value should be. However, there is also a good deal of variability dependent on the sound card of the computer/laptop. I haven't yet come across any compensation files generated by autoeq that doesn't require utilizing a negative preamp value on my 2 laptops (the one that was stolen and the one I'm currently on) and desktop. That value can be wide-ranging. I think I have a bud that requires -17dB and others that are find around -5dB.

oh, and sensitivity will also affect what the preamp value should be.


----------



## Sam L

emgeebee said:


> I've just started using buds, thanks to working from home and not needing isolation on the train or in the office. I bought some yincrow rw-9, which sound great for the price so thanks to everyone who has recommended those in earlier posts! I was thinking about trying to go up the ladder a little though, but its difficult to find direct comparisons of the buds at the top of the tree. Everyone seems to love the st10s (black and gold), but how do they compare to the new fiio's, the chacone's, or even the 1more E1008 (the most easily available for me)?
> 
> My source is a chord mojo and I enjoy the sound signature from my yincrow's, and also my nighthawks and the various B&O over ears that I have...
> 
> tia for any insights


Welcome!

Quite a few of us got our start fairly recently for the exact same reasons you outlined and add one more for me -- I work(ed) down in the basement of my condo and could not hear my kids or wife calling out to me with my iems, hence my introduction to buds (well, one more reason... I had an inner and middle ear infection for several weeks and had to avoid iems for quite a while.)

I have some opinions on totl earbuds but I'll let others chime in as I have an interview to prep for!


----------



## Sam L

theresanarc said:


> I wouldn't call it bassy but it does sound better now. Vocals sound better and everything is a bit clearer.
> 
> What's the reasoning behind turning the pre-amp down to -15?


correct, my bass edition files are not bassy for bassheads or for people already familiar with the earbud world (since buds tend to have detrimentally large amounts of bass, with severe bleed). I only call it that because my neutral versions will be completely flat through the lower mids into the sub-bass regions (like my v1.4 was). Ironically, for buds, bass is still very present when normalizing things to that target curve, but it is more analytical-ish / reference sounding.


----------



## rprodrigues

Anyone here with the K300 from the Nicehck store (they are supposedly K's K300)?
(aliexpress.com/item/32783590564.html)

I'm about to order them as my first 300 Ohm buds, but I can find reviews on them.


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

Howdy all. Prepping for next weeks ali sale. Looking at Smabat ST10s gold and or doing the DIY M2pro kit and getting the 150ohm driver with it. Anyone had experience with the M2 pro with 150ohm driver? The kit has me really curious anyway, have been wondering what my 400ohm and 600ohm drivers would sound like in that M2 shell/filters. Looks like St10s Gold will be around $100 and the DIY kit is at $40 plus $35 for the 150ohm driver. Not interested in the St10s Silver at this time. 

Anything in this price range that I am overlooking that's new in the last few months?


----------



## rprodrigues

@headenvelopedinsound

I did the M2 Pro kit using the gold driver. I like them a lot because they have the best low extension among my buds (TP16, Rambo II, ME80, DIY Mx500, DIY TC200, DIY pk2, DIY pk1, etc...). However, I wonder how they compare to the ST-10s (gold drivers) due to the different shells.

Be aware that it was possible to order the same kit at about $ 30 during the last 11.11. It is then possible that they may put them on sale again for the next BF.


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

rprodrigues said:


> @headenvelopedinsound
> 
> I did the M2 Pro kit using the gold driver. I like them a lot because they have the best low extension among my buds (TP16, Rambo II, ME80, DIY Mx500, DIY TC200, DIY pk2, DIY pk1, etc...). However, I wonder how they compare to the ST-10s (gold drivers) due to the different shells.
> 
> Be aware that it was possible to order the same kit at about $ 30 during the last 11.11. It is then possible that they may put them on sale again for the next BF.



If they do put them on sale for $30 I may just get the standard M2 pro kit and the ST10s Gold. Thanks for the heads up! The main interest in the kit is to put my other drivers in that shell. Nothing wrong with my M1 pro or ST10, just want more buds to hang with.


----------



## Muniek66

I prepare to upgrade earbuds on Black Friday. I currently have an* Ry4S* with a silver cable (fixed) which play well with the FiiO BTR3. Their sound signature suits me in general, maybe they could be a bit more weighted. Of the other earbuds I've had, I liked the sound of the *Vido MX500* and the *VE Monk Candy*.

The new earbuds will play with Shanling UP4 or FiiO BTR5.

Budget: 30-40 $ max.

I was thinking of buying *RY4S mmcx + 2.5mm cable*, *QianYun Qian69*, *Yinyooo BK2* or increasing the budget and buying the* Smabat M2 Pro*.

I reject the Senfers PT25 because I had PT15 and their sound did not suit me.

What can you recommend? Thank you in advance for your help!


----------



## thesheik137 (Nov 20, 2020)

Yincrow RW-1000 Bass Pro


----------



## headenvelopedinsound (Nov 20, 2020)

Muniek66 said:


> I prepare to upgrade earbuds on Black Friday. I currently have an* Ry4S* with a silver cable (fixed) which play well with the FiiO BTR3. Their sound signature suits me in general, maybe they could be a bit more weighted. Of the other earbuds I've had, I liked the sound of the *Vido MX500* and the *VE Monk Candy*.
> 
> The new earbuds will play with Shanling UP4 or FiiO BTR5.
> 
> ...



I have the RY4S mmcx and don’t really find balanced to be a big benefit for that set. Go for the M2pro(with just the knowledge of what the M1 and St10 sound like) or the yin crow x6 as suggested above.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

thesheik137 said:


> Yincrow X6 Bass Pro



RW-1000 Bass Pro


----------



## digititus

thesheik137 said:


> Yincrow X6 Bass Pro


How do you like them? Waiting on mine


----------



## thesheik137

digititus said:


> How do you like them? Waiting on mine



I don't have much earbud experience but these are my favorites so far. Even more than shozy bk but I had those a while ago. Nicely v shaped but also balanced and not sibilant at all to my ears. Really good for lower volume listening.


----------



## RikudouGoku (Nov 20, 2020)

thesheik137 said:


> Yincrow X6 Bass Pro


Link? Couldnt find it.

EDIT: Isnt it the RW1000?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

RikudouGoku said:


> Link? Couldnt find it.



https://a.aliexpress.com/_ABFiq6
https://a.aliexpress.com/_Af5TVG


----------



## thesheik137

RikudouGoku said:


> Link? Couldnt find it.
> 
> EDIT: Isnt it the RW1000?


Yes my bad, edited my post. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## furyossa (Nov 20, 2020)

thesheik137 said:


> I don't have much earbud experience but these are my favorites so far. Even more than shozy bk but I had those a while ago. Nicely v shaped but also balanced and not sibilant at all to my ears. Really good for lower volume listening.


When we compare models such as RW-1000, BGVP DX6, ISN RAMBO II, we notice that each of these lacks in the low-end especially sub-bass.
Build, cable, diver specs on these models are good. But why we have a problem with bass? There are several reasons for this, and I will not talk about the MX500 and PK style of the shell but the different designs of shells used in these models
1. Open design at the front cover (Rambo II, Ourart ACG), like an rim of the wheel. 95% aerodynamics and 5% bass 
2. Vents on the front side of the shell, just behind the driver are for tuning the mids. If they are not covered with tuning foam then the sound is hollow, and with foam, we can easily control the middle tones and even the bass (to a lesser extent). Most likely this simple method was used for tuning the bass on RW-1000 but this is not the right way.
3. Now let's look at models that have fair sub-bass quantity vs quality ratio. The first model is, of course, Smabat ST10. It has the same "front" vents for mids but there is also a "rear" vent for the bass. The transmission Line (TS) design here probably doesn't have much significance because we know that the length of this "LINE" should certainly be more than twice as long in this case. But what is significant here is that with the existence of a "rear" vent there is no build-up of pressure behind the diver, in other words, the goal is to equalize the pressure on both sides of the driver to create ideal conditions for sound reproduction.
Another model Is HE150Pro which has a more simplistic design, without any "front" vents, just one "rear" vent.
From this, we can only conclude that it is not necessary to invest in some complicated design when simple solutions can give the same or better result.
That is why the correct layout and position of the vents are of great importance, and not only for bass but for SQ in general


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

furyossa said:


> When we compare models such as RW-1000, BGVP DX6, ISN RAMBO II, we notice that each of these lacks in the low end especially sub-bass.
> Build, cable, diver specs on these models are good. But why we have a problem with bass? There are several reasons for this, and I will not talk about the MX500 and PK style of the shell but the different designs of shells used in these models
> 1. Open design at the front cover (Rambo II, Ourart ACG), like an rim of the wheel. 95% aerodynamics and 5% bass
> 2. Vents on the front side of the shell, just behind the driver are for tuning the mids. If they are not covered with tuning foam then the sound is hollow, and with foam, we can easily control the middle tones and even the bass (to a lesser extent). Most likely this simple method was used for tuning the bass on RW-1000 but this is not the right way.
> ...



Have to jump over the the diy thread to scan it, but have you done any vent experiments on your 400ohm and 600ohm drivers? Just had an itch to experiment some more, test out some new flavors. If the DIY version of the M2Pro goes on sale I think it would be interesting to do some driver swaps in that shell. Take some measurements of the original driver in a standard MX500 shell then compare.
I am finding I use my 600ohm Beryllium and M1Pro more than anything.


----------



## furyossa

headenvelopedinsound said:


> Have to jump over the the diy thread to scan it, but have you done any vent experiments on your 400ohm and 600ohm drivers? Just had an itch to experiment some more, test out some new flavors. If the DIY version of the M2Pro goes on sale I think it would be interesting to do some driver swaps in that shell. Take some measurements of the original driver in a standard MX500 shell then compare.
> I am finding I use my 600ohm Beryllium and M1Pro more than anything.


I tortured both drivers (400&600ohm) a lot by "walking" them from one shell to another. I posted only my final build. For now, I'm happy with these shells, so I don't believe I'm going to change anything. Only if some new shells come out


----------



## Au13

Speaking of shells and vents, if you ever have your hands on Airpods. Cover the rear vent. It’s an experience


----------



## furyossa (Nov 20, 2020)

Au13 said:


> Speaking of shells and vents, if you ever have your hands on Airpods. Cover the rear vent. It’s an experience



I’m not a fan of those shells at all. But you can see for yourself how they solved vents behind. Sony, Philips, and many brands use a similar concept.
But they kill the sound with the front cover
Anyway ... with this one I don't need to cover anything


----------



## Au13

furyossa said:


> I’m not a fan of those shells at all. But you can see for yourself how they solved vents behind. Sony, Philips, and many brands use a similar concept.
> But they kill the sound with the front cover


With the left ear. Sometimes I forget I have it in, I’ll look for it only to realize it was in my ear. The right though becomes noticeable after awhile.


----------



## lackOfInspiration (Nov 20, 2020)

Quick Mea Culpa: DIY MX500 are great buds. Just needed very very porous foam. Earbud's heavy seal-dependency can be so misleading at times, even when aware of it...
That said I recieved a variety of foams from Ali and It really is a game changer as I can have a decent control over the seal now (and so the elevation below 2K). I was expecting a lot and I'm not disapointed.

Edit: Just came across this very informative post from Oratory which highlights brillantly how critical foams and positiong are when it comes to buds. It also probably shows the most reliable measurments ever made for a bud x) Can be a good point of reference.


----------



## Muniek66

headenvelopedinsound said:


> I have the RY4S mmcx and don’t really find balanced to be a big benefit for that set. Go for the M2pro(with just the knowledge of what the M1 and St10 sound like) or the yin crow x6 as suggested above.




I will choose the Smabat M2 Pro  

Does anyone know where to buy these earbuds with additional drivers at the best price during Black Friday?

The second thing - is it possible to buy a mmcx cable with a 2.5 mm plug to connect them to the balanced output?


----------



## baskingshark

Muniek66 said:


> I will choose the Smabat M2 Pro
> 
> Does anyone know where to buy these earbuds with additional drivers at the best price during Black Friday?
> 
> The second thing - is it possible to buy a mmcx cable with a 2.5 mm plug to connect them to the balanced output?



U can find the drivers for sale on the Aliexpress "SMABAT store". I think they have a few different types of drivers available (and their purported effects on sound):












Do remember to collect coupons and stack them on top of the discounted price for more savings! Yes u can use a 2.5 mm MMCX cable on the M2 Pro to get balanced output. Though I find the stock cable with the M2 Pro (3.5 mm) is already quite good haptically and sonically. Look forward to your different experiments with the various drivers, let us know how they sound!


----------



## sebek

Under 20 € the best earbud is BK2? Or what else do you recommend?


----------



## baskingshark

sebek said:


> Under 20 € the best earbud is BK2? Or what else do you recommend?



RY4S 300 ohm is not bad, U shaped, good timbre and tonality, but lacks subbass like most buds. Mids also a big congested, technicalities are not the best. But non fatiguing. It needs amping though as per the 300 ohm impedance.

Faaeal Datura Pro is a midcentric set, good for mid and vocal lovers. Good timbre. Technicalities average. Has subbass and higher treble roll off, so not that all rounder.

The beryllium wooden cheap earbud that @KeyStar recommends looks nice too. I ordered one on 11/11, yet to arrive.


----------



## RikudouGoku

sebek said:


> Under 20 € the best earbud is BK2? Or what else do you recommend?


Yincrow X6


----------



## povidlo

sebek said:


> Under 20 € the best earbud is BK2? Or what else do you recommend?


Edifier H185


----------



## sebek

Thanks, I think I'll try with Yincrow X6


----------



## jogawag

sebek said:


> Under 20 € the best earbud is BK2? Or what else do you recommend?


I recommend you the Yincrow rw-9, which has a wide soundstage and smooth sound.


----------



## Vannak

baskingshark said:


> RY4S 300 ohm is not bad, U shaped, good timbre and tonality, but lacks subbass like most buds. Mids also a big congested, technicalities are not the best. But non fatiguing. It needs amping though as per the 300 ohm impedance.
> 
> Faaeal Datura Pro is a midcentric set, good for mid and vocal lovers. Good timbre. Technicalities average. Has subbass and higher treble roll off, so not that all rounder.
> 
> The beryllium wooden cheap earbud that @KeyStar recommends looks nice too. I ordered one on 11/11, yet to arrive.


Yup
My Ry4s 300ohm is still in transit 😁


----------



## theresanarc

sebek said:


> Under 20 € the best earbud is BK2? Or what else do you recommend?



I'm looking at the **** store and you can get the Yincrow X6 + DIY Vido + KBEAR Stellar for less than $20 COMBINED. They're all that boring MX500 shell but that's still pretty good value. I'm of the belief that the best earbud is completely dependent on your ears and listening habits in this price range so the more quantity you can get to try out the better.

The best ones I've ever had under $20 were Qian39s, the 69s I can appreciate as probably being the better buds but I prefer the sound signature and ridiculous comfort of the 39s.

Edit: Apparently **** is censored on here? Not sure why but if you search Yincrow X6 on Ali then it's the seller that's sold 300+ of them.


----------



## baskingshark

theresanarc said:


> I'm looking at the **** store and you can get the Yincrow X6 + DIY Vido + KBEAR Stellar for less than $20 COMBINED. They're all that boring MX500 shell but that's still pretty good value. I'm of the belief that the best earbud is completely dependent on your ears and listening habits in this price range so the more quantity you can get to try out the better.
> 
> The best ones I've ever had under $20 were Qian39s, the 69s I can appreciate as probably being the better buds but I prefer the sound signature and ridiculous comfort of the 39s.
> 
> Edit: Apparently **** is censored on here? Not sure why but if you search Yincrow X6 on Ali then it's the seller that's sold 300+ of them.



Thanks for the headsup.

Anyone has the Yincrow X6 to compare with the Yincrow RW9? Thanks in advance!


----------



## Sam L

sebek said:


> Under 20 € the best earbud is BK2? Or what else do you recommend?


I like the Bk2 but be aware that it has pretty lean almost analytical sound, especially for an earbud. It's pretty bass light as well. So the appeal of the bk2 will depend alot on what kind of music you listen too


----------



## Sam L

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for the headsup.
> 
> Anyone has the Yincrow X6 to compare with the Yincrow RW9? Thanks in advance!


RW9 is more fun, more v-shaped than X6. X6 actually sounds more balanced and a bit more mature/refined than rw9. Both have good amounts of bass, with a slight edge to the rw9. They are complimentary, so getting both has appeal. If I had to choose one, I'd go with the X6 (narrowly).


----------



## Sam L

Are we sure the rw9 is discontinued? 



I suppose those inventory numbers could also be bogus.


----------



## Nec3

theresanarc said:


> I'm looking at the **** store and you can get the Yincrow X6 + DIY Vido + KBEAR Stellar for less than $20 COMBINED. They're all that boring MX500 shell but that's still pretty good value. I'm of the belief that the best earbud is completely dependent on your ears and listening habits in this price range so the more quantity you can get to try out the better.
> 
> The best ones I've ever had under $20 were Qian39s, the 69s I can appreciate as probably being the better buds but I prefer the sound signature and ridiculous comfort of the 39s.
> 
> Edit: Apparently **** is censored on here? Not sure why but if you search Yincrow X6 on Ali then it's the seller that's sold 300+ of them.




I actually have 3 pairs of Qian39's for the reasons you might not expect. These are the best sleep-phones I've had, ever. Without the foam covers, everything sounds so light, airy and transparent when it comes to soft individual (ASMR) sounds that it's very easy to fall asleep with them in my ears. The shape also allows me to roll around my pillows with absolute comfort. I bought 3 pairs expecting one of them would break because I roll around my bed a lot and subconsciously yank the wires out of my ears when I'm asleep, so I don't baby these at all. But here I am, still on my first pair, expecting them to break after 1.2 years of usage.

With thick foams, the 39's sound technically pleasing. You can hear the bass, and technical capabilities of a clear midrange. However the foams that I love so much might actually be hindering the 39's ability to get that last 20%. The sub-bass sounds like I shoved a subwoofer into the closet, I can hear the rumble and punch but it's behind a hollow door thumping away.
...
Hold on.
Lemme grab my donuts.
Hello 20%!
The treble is still soft when it comes to instruments, but the treble is there specifically for vocals. The bass is nice and rumbly, and the midrange is very clear. However there's a 1-2khz bump that kind of takes the front stage and blocks the potential extension in the 2-3.5khz area.


I've also own 2, wait no sorry I own 1. 1 pair of Nicehck B40's because my cat stole the other one. The B40's are what they say an HD650 in an earbud and they very much are. Bass isn't its' strong suit but it's very smooth and warm, I prefer to use the B40's at my desktop.


I also own a pair of Yincrow RW9's. I dislike the emphasis of the 2-3khz area, I think it's too much. However I lowered these by 2-4db on my phone and now I love to use the RW9 at work. The treble is very airy, I remember having to spend $150 on headphones to get this same amount of air, and the sub-bass is satisfying too. Mids are relatively clear, not as clear as the Qian39's but they're a very fun earphone and they keep me awake at work. Not to mention the blue RW9 looks very good with orange foam covers.


----------



## Sam L (Nov 22, 2020)

Nec3 said:


> I actually have 3 pairs of Qian39's for the reasons you might not expect. These are the best sleep-phones I've had, ever. Without the foam covers, everything sounds so light, airy and transparent when it comes to soft individual (ASMR) sounds that it's very easy to fall asleep with them in my ears. The shape also allows me to roll around my pillows with absolute comfort. I bought 3 pairs expecting one of them would break because I roll around my bed a lot and subconsciously yank the wires out of my ears when I'm asleep, so I don't baby these at all. But here I am, still on my first pair, expecting them to break after 1.2 years of usage.
> 
> With thick foams, the 39's sound technically pleasing. You can hear the bass, and technical capabilities of a clear midrange. However the foams that I love so much might actually be hindering the 39's ability to get that last 20%. The sub-bass sounds like I shoved a subwoofer into the closet, I can hear the rumble and punch but it's behind a hollow door thumping away.
> ...
> ...


Thank you for sharing your observations, very helpful.

I agree with your characterizations of the rw9. Additionally, I've noticed a couple other things about that 2-3k region.

1. I agree that the rise is too agressive. It also highlights an interesting aspect of earbud pinna gain. The rw9 is +5.25dB from 1k to 2k. My current target curve places the rise from 1k to 2k at 2dB. It seems like it would be too small but thats what works best so far. (I'm officially at 5 interations of my curve, but unofficially I've plotted and generated files for around 10 or so variations.)

2. That 2k emphasis is even more forward because of the notch that follows at 3k.


----------



## chompy

Hi,

I've been out of earbud world for a while and I keep using my Tomahawks (which I prefer to the Yun Pk3, Edifier H180, Edifier H185 and original VE Monk that I also have)... I see there are lots of new options since then, but could you please help me telling me what are the best options right now if I'm looking for a V shaped earbud (I like extended deep powerfull bass but with nice and cristal clear highs)?

My ears are on the smaller side, I don't know if anything bigger than my Tomahawks would fit and I don't want a high impedance buds as I'll use them with a FiiO X3II.

Thanks


----------



## lackOfInspiration

Sam L said:


> Thank you for sharing your observations, very helpful.
> 
> I agree with your characterizations of the rw9. Additionally, I've noticed a couple other things about that 2-3k region.
> 
> ...


I'm not astonished you found 2db to be enough: it just shows the relation between your measurment set up and your ears. You inegrated feedbacks from other users so actually it's slightly better than that. With more feedbacks we could have good rules of thumb to discriminate earbuds that are likely to sound good from others: "If it's elevated by 2db on Sam L measurments then you might find it fine".  I think those kind of rules could do the trick as there are not many different designes, and in the worst case having theme valid only for let's say MX500 shells would still be super helpfull. 

Talking about feedbacks, If you have compensation files for any of the following buds I'll do extensive testing: DIY MX500, Auglamour RX1, Qian 69, RY4S Plus, MONK +, VIDO (Blue and White). I'll buy some you already posted compensation for as well.


----------



## Muniek66

baskingshark said:


> U can find the drivers for sale on the Aliexpress "SMABAT store". I think they have a few different types of drivers available (and their purported effects on sound):
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Currently, additional drivers can be purchased cheaper on the official Smabat website (apart from Aliexpress). In addition, only two models are available on Aliexpress.

Maybe that will change during Black Week.

I am thinking about the 2.5 mm MMCX cable for the Smabat M2 Pro because the FiiO BTR5 and Shanling UP4 are said to be better for balanced output.

Can you recommend some nice 2.5 mm MMCX cable for Smabat M2 Pro?


----------



## baskingshark

Muniek66 said:


> Currently, additional drivers can be purchased cheaper on the official Smabat website (apart from Aliexpress). In addition, only two models are available on Aliexpress.
> 
> Maybe that will change during Black Week.
> 
> ...



You might wanna ask the rest for their recommendations in this cable thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low-end-cheap-generic-otherwise-bang-for-buck-cable-thread.891911/

Personally, I use the NiceHCK 8 or 16 core copper cables on most of my gear, they measure very low on resistances and are cheap, like around $10 USD during sales. I have about 10 of em, not a single one failed me, some are almost 2 years old. These cables have a earhook but I use the SMABAT M2 Pro over ears. If u are using the M2 Pro cable down, you might wanna cut the earhook guides off and use a hairdryer to mould the earhook area straight, or just buy a cable that has no earhooks. Maybe the rest here, or in that above thread can add their advise on cables too.


----------



## Muniek66

baskingshark said:


> You might wanna ask the rest for their recommendations in this cable thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low-end-cheap-generic-otherwise-bang-for-buck-cable-thread.891911/
> 
> Personally, I use the NiceHCK 8 or 16 core copper cables on most of my gear, they measure very low on resistances and are cheap, like around $10 USD during sales. I have about 10 of em, not a single one failed me, some are almost 2 years old. These cables have a earhook but I use the SMABAT M2 Pro over ears. If u are using the M2 Pro cable down, you might wanna cut the earhook guides off and use a hairdryer to mould the earhook area straight, or just buy a cable that has no earhooks. Maybe the rest here, or in that above thread can add their advise on cables too.




Ok. Many thanks 

Quick question: does anyone have a Smabat M2 Pro vs Yincrow RW-1000 comparison?

I started considering buying Yincrow


----------



## rprodrigues

So?
Should I save some cash for 12.12?


----------



## furyossa (Nov 22, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> So?
> Should I save some cash for 12.12?


The legend is reborn!. I really like the original EBX model. This was my first non-MX500 buds.
I’m just curious what the new model will look like.


----------



## Sam L

rprodrigues said:


> So?
> Should I save some cash for 12.12?


Lol. Basically save cash every month for an Aliexpress sale? Aren't we all glad buds are generally really cheap? Love it.


----------



## furyossa (Nov 22, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Lol. Basically save cash every month for an Aliexpress sale? Aren't we all glad buds are generally really cheap? Love it.


The original model was over $100. As I remember I bought mine on sale for around $80.
After that, Nickhck had an offer with a new cable, and it was also possible to buy earphones without a cable for $95.
Could you make a compensation file for the original EBX model? EBX has a V-shape sound signature. The low end is present and has a good ratio of quantity and quality. The mids are recessed and the treble could be softened a bit.

I matched them with a 16-core balanced cable because they deserve this kind of "luxury"


----------



## Sam L (Nov 22, 2020)

furyossa said:


> The original model was over $100. As I remember I bought mine on sale for around $80.
> After that, Nickhck had an offer with a new cable, and it was also possible to buy earphones without a cable for $95.
> Could you make a compensation file for the original EBX model? EBX has a V-shape sound signature. The low end is present and has a good ratio of quantity and quality. The mids are recessed and the treble could be softened a bit.
> 
> I matched them with a 16-core balanced cable because they deserve this kind of "luxury"


Absolutely, if I can get measurements or a graph (I can digitally plot them.)

@cenizas is this an earbud you have access to?

Everyone, i have an idea how to calibrate anyone's measurements so I can use them to generate compensation files. I'll elaborate when I get home.


----------



## cenizas

Sam L said:


> Absolutely, if I can get measurements or a graph (I can digitally plot them.)
> 
> @cenizas is this an earbud you have access to?
> 
> Everyone, i have an idea how to calibrate anyone's measurements so I can use them to generate compensation files. I'll elaborate when I get home.


Unfortunately that's not one that's in my collection.


----------



## dissociativity (Nov 23, 2020)

got the 32 ohms wooden shell berylls today, first impression is: wow they have bass and the tuning feels good?, going to actually listen to them properly after I'm out for an hour or two because I find the most substantial settling for burn-in happens fairly quickly for getting actual decent impressions.
Edit: couldn't resist temptation, these remind me a lot of the qian 69, and are now up there with my favorites with it.

Edit2: Wooden shell isn't as comfortable as mx500, for me anyway, get the mx500 version.
Wooden shell version's cable also has strong microphonics for an earbud, it's high quality and all, but rather stuff and a more grippy rubbery, not the more slippery easy to untangle nicehck me80 or moondrop nameless style cable I prefer.
The mx500 one has a braided cable that looks like nicehck b40 or the he150 pro's, which shouldn't have any microphonics issues whatsoever.

I'd say, unless it butchers the sound somehow, the mx500 shell cheaper beryllium 32 ohm earbud is probably a qian 69 killer, though I'll need to compare them side by side, the tuning feels similar to me, everything feels just right in tuning for my ideal (qian 69 style tuning), but with more resolution, maybe the sound stage is a tiny touch worse than the qian 69 but I suspect the mx500 shell version may fix that.

I'll have to wait til february to review the mx500 shell version I just ordered sadly as I'm working interstate, but I ordered it under my houemate's name.


----------



## rprodrigues

cenizas said:


> Further impressions of the fengru s300 as promised. Tonally this is definitely a midcentric iem with laidback treble and thick, lush mids. Anyone looking for pure resolution or for extra sparkly treble can skip these. Bass is pretty awesome, great micro and macrodynamics despite the thicker signature, and surprisingly good extension. For those not used to this signature bloat might be perceived but personally as someone who really enjoys this signature the bloom just adds body and richness to the lower mids, and if you listen past the bloat, texture and dynamics are still well maintained. Good punch and rumble as well. Mids are exceptional. Rich, lush and extremely well textured. Timbre is spot on as well and tone is lovely, with notes having proper weight behind them. Vocal texture is also handled extremely well. Highly recommended for any mids lovers. Treble it just kind of there, laid back in presentation, lacking a bit of sparkle and extension but that’s typical for this signature, and further directs attention to the lovely mids. Rendering is smooth and texturing is actually pretty solid.
> 
> Technicalities wise these aren’t winning any prizes in terms of resolution, but what you do get instead is close to top tier dynamic nuance, texturing and layering. Staging is forward and intimate, but the exceptional layering results in a good sense of space between instruments and lends great depth to the soundstage despite the intimate presentation.
> 
> ...



What a great comparison! 
Thank you for sharing it. 

Would you order the k300 or the s300 if they were at the same price bracket?


----------



## cenizas

rprodrigues said:


> What a great comparison!
> Thank you for sharing it.
> 
> Would you order the k300 or the s300 if they were at the same price bracket?


They're really equals imo (which really makes the s300 ultra value considering it's cheaper, both are well worth the k300's price) just down to signature preference. If you like something warmer and more intimate then s300, if you want something more balanced and grander sounding then k300. Both are great, excellent for their prices, can't go very wrong with either.


----------



## baskingshark (Nov 23, 2020)

Just received the Earbuds Anonymous I bought at $25 USD for 11/11.



Comes with 2 pairs of donut foams and 2 pairs of full foams and a carrying case. Non detachable cable.

OOTB impressions with full foams on: this is an L shaped set, warm, bassy and smooth with rolled off treble. The bass is midbass focused and north of neutral, with slight subbass roll off. Still better than most other buds in subbass extension, but not as well extended in the bass as the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold. Bass bleeds a bit into mids. Lower mids are depressed slightly with a slight boost in the upper mids, which are nevertheless quite smooth and transparent. Minimal shoutiness in the upper mids unlike some other CHIFI tuned IEMs/earbuds. The treble is rolled off as discussed, with some loss of microdetails in the treble frequencies. No sibilance.

Timbre is very good for acoustic instruments. Technicalities are at least above average, but will need to do further A/B testing against other midfi sets.

Trebleheads best give this set a miss, but treblesensitive folks and bassheads will like it. Very non fatiguing and can be used for hours. Maybe trebleheads can still use it without foam covers to add some clarity and treble to the mix. It may be a bit muddy and overly bass focused with full foams on and this is coming from a basshead.

At the original price of $50 USD (which I would consider as midfi earbuds pricing), there's lots of tough competition from other midfi buds. I would be quite hesistant to recommend the Earbuds Anonymous at this $50 USD price point, and also we have to factor in that it has a non detachable cable (which may be a point of failure down the line). If you can get it for the $25 USD price I got it for, that's quite a nice sounding earbud for the price, especially for bassheads and treblesensitive folk.


----------



## cheebs

Is the Rose Masya still competetive in today's earbud market? If not, what other buds would provide a similar signature/experience to it? Maybe at or below 150 price point?


----------



## rprodrigues

@baskingshark

Thank you for sharing your OOTB impressions on them.
It seems the actual price is $ 25 (due to the statement at its listing on Penon's website).

I ordered them during last 11.11 too but I was expecting a non rolled off treble...  
How do they compare to ST-10s regarding treble extension? Are EA buds much more rolled off?


----------



## baskingshark

rprodrigues said:


> @baskingshark
> 
> Thank you for sharing your OOTB impressions on them.
> It seems the actual price is $ 25 (due to the statement at its listing on Penon's website).
> ...



Yeah it is much more rolled off in the treble than ST10S. U can try taking off the foams and just using the bud without any covers, it helps treble extension a bit.


----------



## kurtextrem (Nov 23, 2020)

Hello everyone, do you guys think the Rose Maria is an upgrade to the MoonDrop Liebesleid; and if so, what is better: MoonDrop Chaconne or Rose Maria?

Also... the Rose earbuds all have a weird fit, but the Maria looks smaller than the others. Do you need an ear-hook for it to stay in the ear or are foams fine?
(tagging @ClieOS @golov17 as they two are the only one owning the Maria as far as I know...)

And last question: This reviewer http://headphonemetal.ldblog.jp/archives/52320906.html says the K's Bell-Ti 120 Ohm does have a small soundstage (feels closed) or at least Google Translator says he wrote it. Is that true?


----------



## Sam L

@ro


baskingshark said:


> Just received the Earbuds Anonymous I bought at $25 USD for 11/11.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing your observations and saving me money. I'll only pick one up eventually if the drivers take eq well.


----------



## Sam L

cheebs said:


> Is the Rose Masya still competetive in today's earbud market? If not, what other buds would provide a similar signature/experience to it? Maybe at or below 150 price point?


If it was competitive before, it still is today. My way of saying there's not enough innovation in the earbuds market.


----------



## cheebs

Sam L said:


> If it was competitive before, it still is today. My way of saying there's not enough innovation in the earbuds market.



Which is why I also got the M2 Pro, cause it did something different. And why I'm attracted to the rose stuff, they're doing something great here. Great news to me though, if I can find one anywhere.


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> Everyone, i have an idea how to calibrate anyone's measurements so I can use them to generate compensation files. I'll elaborate when I get home.


We are still waiting ... patiently


----------



## Sam L (Nov 23, 2020)

furyossa said:


> We are still waiting ... patiently


This is what I propose, and it will require someone (the more the merrier) two things:
1. submitting a measurement of a common, easily accessible bud (monk plus?) that they've measured following some clean measurement practices. quality of the rig and proper calibration is not needed. I just need consistency.

2. Someone with one of the following eq implementations working:
A. wavelet
B. peace/apo for windows users
C. mac os users -- there are a number of PEQ and convolver modules that work. I haven't uploaded any convolver files yet, but I've been generating them along with my wavelet and PEQ files. More info here:
https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq
D. linux users can use PulseEffects

I will then:
1. compare the submitted baseline measurement with mine and cenizas' rig outputs and create a compensation file for correction purposes.
2. create compensation files of the desired bud
3. correct the output of #2 with the correction file to adjust for any deviations from uncorrected mics/soundcards.

Any takers?

**edit**
If anyone wants to help out, message me. I don't want to hunt down responses inside the thread. thanks!


----------



## theresanarc

Are there any Youtube tutorials or something on what is needed to do a measurement? I have a Qian69 and 39 I'd really be curious having it done for but I have no idea how, I have PeaceEQ/APO installed.


----------



## vygas

Ending my Monday with a mean, (slightly) green, mids machine 



Spoiler










Though I do have a question, has anyone here worked on re-cabling the Cygnus before and was it difficult? I'm planning on doing so down the line and just wanted to know if it was something worth doing (as in, wouldn't need to worry about having a spare driver or etc)? Hope you all had a good Monday regardless   .


----------



## dissociativity (Nov 23, 2020)

kurtextrem said:


> Hello everyone, do you guys think the Rose Maria is an upgrade to the MoonDrop Liebesleid; and if so, what is better: MoonDrop Chaconne or Rose Maria?
> 
> Also... the Rose earbuds all have a weird fit, but the Maria looks smaller than the others. Do you need an ear-hook for it to stay in the ear or are foams fine?
> (tagging @ClieOS @golov17 as they two are the only one owning the Maria as far as I know...)
> ...


on paper it should be substantially better, how good the tuning is, is anyone's guess however, but from what I've heard of the masya, the maria is likely better than the moondrops.

I myself have a Masya waiting for me in the US for whenever shipping becomes sanely priced again at a friend's place and keep eying the Maria for it's sheer innovation.

Nothing beats the comfiness and ability to just put them in and vibe of earbuds lol.


----------



## lackOfInspiration

theresanarc said:


> Are there any Youtube tutorials or something on what is needed to do a measurement? I have a Qian69 and 39 I'd really be curious having it done for but I have no idea how, I have PeaceEQ/APO installed.



Producing a graph is a fairly easy thing (even more so when using softwares like Room EQ Wizards.  If that's all you want to know this site says it all, it's definetly the best place to start.). You really need nothing but an omni microphone and a soundcard. But producing a graph that actually means anything at all is oustandingly difficult even when not aiming for the bear minimum of accuracy and precision science (or just intellectual honesty) would require.

However if you're intersted in this, just start reading and experimenting, you will learn a lot really. And from my point of view education on the matter is just vital, you'll become a far better listener/producer/musiclover or whatever.


----------



## jogawag

vygas said:


> Ending my Monday with a mean, (slightly) green, mids machine
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've worked on re-cabling Cygnus before and it was difficult to run a new thick OCC cable through the stem of the shell, but I think it was worth the effort.


----------



## lackOfInspiration

Sam L said:


> This is what I propose, and it will require someone (the more the merrier) two things:
> 1. submitting a measurement of a common, easily accessible bud (monk plus?) that they've measured following some clean measurement practices. quality of the rig and proper calibration is not needed. I just need consistency.
> 
> 2. Someone with one of the following eq implementations working:
> ...


Here is my not-worth-much criticism (if it's out of place please tell me)
What do you mean by clean measurment practices? Why would the quality of the rig not matter? If you want sytematic deviations, rigs should be at least the same in principle (I believe your rig and Ceniza's are based on a IEC711 compliant coupler and an adaptater that gives a partial seal for earbuds (?)). Very similar rigs can produce comparable measurments that might be linked by a simple linear founction indeed. But it needs to be investigated. Do you plan to do so?
To me the value of your EQ files is that they're all based on measurments from the same rig. If people want to build EQ files temselves they can, and I'd be glad they share their results. But if your database is not kept clean it will just add confusion and lessen the meaning of your work.


----------



## Sam L

theresanarc said:


> Are there any Youtube tutorials or something on what is needed to do a measurement? I have a Qian69 and 39 I'd really be curious having it done for but I have no idea how, I have PeaceEQ/APO installed.


Sadly, the info is scattered across various thread and websites. I haven't really seen anything on youtube that is helpful. 

A good starting point is to get a Dayton imm-6 calibrated mic and some tubing to simulate the ear canal.
https://www.amazon.com/Dayton-Audio-iMM-6-Calibrated-Measurement/dp/B00ADR2B84

Room EQ Wizard is free software to graph that will play sine wave sweeps or measure iems/earbuds.

@theresanarc I plan to carve out some time one of these weekends and put up a website that will have all this info w/ screenshots. It'll also be a central repository for earbud measurements and correction files.


----------



## Sam L

lackOfInspiration said:


> Here is my not-worth-much criticism (if it's out of place please tell me)
> What do you mean by clean measurment practices? Why would the quality of the rig not matter? If you want sytematic deviations, rigs should be at least the same in principle (I believe your rig and Ceniza's are based on a IEC711 compliant coupler and an adaptater that gives a partial seal for earbuds (?)). Very similar rigs can produce comparable measurments that might be linked by a simple linear founction indeed. But it needs to be investigated. Do you plan to do so?
> To me the value of your EQ files is that they're all based on measurments from the same rig. If people want to build EQ files temselves they can, and I'd be glad they share their results. But if your database is not kept clean it will just add confusion and lessen the meaning of your work.



You are correct in that the accuracy of the measurement setup is important but what I'm proposing is a workflow for community-based submissions that can still offer some advantage to earbud users at large with compensation files based on community submissions. The goal I have in mind is faster adoption and coverage of all the various earbuds out there.  I plan on creating a repository centralizing all these files. Community based submissions will be limited to 20hz to 10khz, which should be fine since measurements post 10khz are notoriously inaccurate anyways.

By the way, I think after increasing interest and data there will likely be several target curves that cover the vast majority of the preferences of earbud users. Something that parallels the variety we have in the IEM space (ala diffuse field, harman, oratory, etc.) Though I think a bass oriented target and a more neutral target is a good start.


----------



## superuser1

@RikudouGoku Any update on the Dendroaspis??


----------



## assassin10000

If you pick up a Dayton IMM-6 mic and have some basic DIY skills you could make an adapter which can help with way more consistent measurements.

Top center in this pic is the DIY adapter:


Bottom row is 5 of 17 different tries to match measurements of my prior adapter which was based on a mold of my actual ear.


Spoiler: Prior adapter









I staggered the lengths a bit to give a similar volume to my ears after my first few attempts at a DIY adapter.

Razor blade/tubing cutter, an exacto knife and hot glue gun are needed. The claw or crown has hot glue that is used create 'tips' that hold the earbud.


----------



## cheebs

Just saw the Toneking TY2, also has dual drivers. How does it compare to the Rose Masya, or even Mojito?


----------



## RikudouGoku

superuser1 said:


> @RikudouGoku Any update on the Dendroaspis??


Shipped, it is the only package I ordered that has been sent....11/11 sure is delaying a ton of orders and now it is black friday...guess there might be more delays.


----------



## baskingshark

Any good earbud deals you guys see for Black Friday?

The TONEKING Dendroaspis Viridis is going at around $66 USD on a few shops on Aliexpress with stacking coupons. We have some good first impressions about it, but I would consider this midfi pricing for a bud, not that cheap to rush into a blind buy for most. Waiting for @RikudouGoku , the patron saint of buying IEMs/earbuds to give his valuable input!!!


----------



## povidlo

Received 1MORE EO320 over the weekend, purchased from Amazon.it.

Packaging and accessories are above average. Using foamies, they are very comfortable to wear, probably the most comfortable earbuds I've tried so far. Cord is braided until Y-split. 

They are V-shape tuned, with nice bass and treble extension. Mids are a bit recessed and vocals are a somewhat behind the sound. Simple, 2D soundstage but instrument / layer separation is quite decent.  

Low-end is the highlight so far. EO320 are capable of producing pounding, controlled bass. EQ/DSP can make them very bassy, on top of their default V sound sig. They don't get boomy though, and bass is well separated from mids, sounds like due to a bit of a drop off around low mids area.

Good choice for some thumpin' techno on the go!


----------



## furyossa

povidlo said:


> Received 1MORE EO320 over the weekend, purchased from Amazon.it.
> 
> Packaging and accessories are above average. Using foamies, they are very comfortable to wear, probably the most comfortable earbuds I've tried so far. Cord is braided until Y-split.
> 
> ...


DIY Aerospace-Grade Titanium  




https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000177042681.html


----------



## lackOfInspiration

Sam L said:


> You are correct in that the accuracy of the measurement setup is important but what I'm proposing is a workflow for community-based submissions that can still offer some advantage to earbud users at large with compensation files based on community submissions. The goal I have in mind is faster adoption and coverage of all the various earbuds out there.  I plan on creating a repository centralizing all these files. Community based submissions will be limited to 20hz to 10khz, which should be fine since measurements post 10khz are notoriously inaccurate anyways.
> 
> By the way, I think after increasing interest and data there will likely be several target curves that cover the vast majority of the preferences of earbud users. Something that parallels the variety we have in the IEM space (ala diffuse field, harman, oratory, etc.) Though I think a bass oriented target and a more neutral target is a good start.


I'm absolutely ok with the idea that community submissions are beneficial, but my point is that it seems risky to say the least to use them this way. It's all a question of how you build the data base then, but personally when reading a graph I want absolute transparency on how it was produced. Putting all measurments in the same basket with nothink but a linear compensation would let the user think all the rigs are comparable, this is not very honest to me. But you're probably well aware of this so I'm stopping there.

Yet I have a grip on what you're trying to achieve with targets. The unknown in our case is not what we should have at the eardrum (this is already well established) but what we should measure on the rigs we have available. If we had fixtures like 43AG we could directly use the harman target as is.


----------



## Sam L

lackOfInspiration said:


> I'm absolutely ok with the idea that community submissions are beneficial, but my point is that it seems risky to say the least to use them this way. It's all a question of how you build the data base then, but personally when reading a graph I want absolute transparency on how it was produced. Putting all measurments in the same basket with nothink but a linear compensation would let the user think all the rigs are comparable, this is not very honest to me. But you're probably well aware of this so I'm stopping there.
> 
> Yet I have a grip on what you're trying to achieve with targets. The unknown in our case is not what we should have at the eardrum (this is already well established) but what we should measure on the rigs we have available. If we had fixtures like 43AG we could directly use the harman target as is.



I understand your concerns and we're on the same page. I'm thinking iteratively and how can we kick start a movement of sorts that will actually achieve these sorts of impacts:

1. See the sort of innovation we see in the chi-fi iem space.
2. Have every manufacturer sell buds with growing market share quarter after quarter. (and to see these buds models with stronger placement in their lineup, not like after thoughts or loss leaders. ie. fiio admitting they they won't make money on the em5...)
3. This thread have on average 200 to 500 concurrent guests and users at any given time of day.

All the measurements will not be in the "same basket," for sure. They will reside in a user submitted category. My original thought was having something was better than nothing. I still think this approach is sound but I'll definitely give some more thought as to how this will work out in practice.

As always, I appreciate the feedback and keep them coming!


----------



## sebek

I've read good things about these: 

MusicMaker MrZ Tomahawk https://it.aliexpress.com/item/32591304629.html 

Are they very good? Is there even better under 30 euros? 

What is the difference between zircon and no zircon?


----------



## furyossa (Nov 24, 2020)

sebek said:


> What is the difference between zircon and no zircon?


Unisex vs For Men, probably


----------



## Penon

Hello everyone, 2020 Black Friday deals is now going on .

There are more products , please click : https://penonaudio.com/black-friday


----------



## jogawag (Nov 27, 2020)

Yincrow rw-2000 has arrived.
Impressions after 8 hours of burn-in.

Sound Sig:
Harmonious high resolution sound.
The bass has weight, and the mid-high range has a sense of transparency.
A wide and airy sound stage.
Impressive female vocal.
It's a bit like the sound of Moondrop Chaconne.

Good point:
The 15mm driver can be used by people with small ears.
Bad points:
I negotiated and bought it for $ 135, but now it is sold for $ 133.



Postscript:
About 40 hours to the end of the burn-in.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jogawag said:


> Yincrow rw-2000 has arrived.
> Impressions after 8 hours of burn-in.
> 
> Sound Sig:
> ...


Is the bass similar to the X6?


----------



## jogawag

RikudouGoku said:


> Is the bass similar to the X6?


Yes,  the bass is similar to the X6.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jogawag said:


> Yes,  the bass is similar to the X6.


NICE! 

Is the timbre and tonality very natural as well (like the X6)? Since my other buds with similar bass to the X6 have all sacrificed their timbre,tonality, mids and treble for it (Turandot, HE150pro).

If I like the RW-9, I might go for the RW-1000 or RW-2000.


----------



## jogawag

RikudouGoku said:


> NICE!
> 
> Is the timbre and tonality very natural as well (like the X6)? Since my other buds with similar bass to the X6 have all sacrificed their timbre,tonality, mids and treble for it (Turandot, HE150pro).
> 
> If I like the RW-9, I might go for the RW-1000 or RW-2000.


The timbre has a sense of transparency, and tonality very natural as well (like the X6).


----------



## RikudouGoku

jogawag said:


> The timbre has a sense of transparency, and tonality very natural as well (like the X6).


Is it brighter than the X6? Do you have the RW1000 to compare with?


----------



## jogawag

RikudouGoku said:


> Is it brighter than the X6? Do you have the RW1000 to compare with?


The X6 is darker than rw-2000.
Sorry, I don't have rw-1000.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jogawag said:


> The X6 is darker than rw-2000.
> Sorry, I don't have rw-1000.


Do you have the nicehck diy MX500? Is it brighter than that one?


----------



## jogawag

RikudouGoku said:


> Do you have the nicehck diy MX500? Is it brighter than that one?


Sorry, I don't have the nicehck diy MX500.
If I compare rw-2000 to the Fengru diy EMX500 instead, the rw-2000 is brighter, or rather clearer.


----------



## assassin10000

jogawag said:


> Yincrow rw-2000 has arrived.
> Impressions after 8 hours of burn-in.
> 
> Sound Sig:
> ...



Can you check the O.D. with your calipers? Thanks.


----------



## Sam L

lackOfInspiration said:


> Yet I have a grip on what you're trying to achieve with targets. The unknown in our case is not what we should have at the eardrum (this is already well established) but what we should measure on the rigs we have available. If we had fixtures like 43AG we could directly use the harman target as is.



Before getting exposed into the world of buds, I really thought measurements and their impact on user-perceived sound would see "end game" conclusions as we see more and more gras measurements (including crin getting his 43ag-7.) But the reality is there's always the inescapable user variable dependent on ear anatomy.

I agree we are getting closer to ear drum accuracy and we are starting to see consolidated opinions as to what sounds good (generally) with iems and headphones. But with earbuds, there's a disturbing lack of regard for the format. Someone on another thread mention bringing up earbuds at a headphone meetup only to be summarily dismissed.


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Btw I know this isnt an earbud but I can still recommend it to bud users.
> The Koss KSC75, I just finished my review on it and it sounds amazing for acoustic music.
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ko...one-headphones.6373/reviews#item-review-24765
> 
> (comparison with the NiceHCK DIY MX500 is in the review.)


I picked up a Shini q140 awhile back for something like $1.96 and shipping was $1.05 to the US. Opened my eyes to the format.


----------



## digititus

jogawag said:


> Yincrow rw-2000 has arrived.
> Impressions after 8 hours of burn-in.
> 
> Sound Sig:
> ...


Congrats! I just received the RW-1000 bass version. Really enjoying it so far. Similar impressions to yours. Enjoy


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> I picked up a Shini q140 awhile back for something like $1.96 and shipping was $1.05 to the US. Opened my eyes to the format.


Yeah, I knew about that one. Sadly with how import fees in Sweden works, the cost would be around 10 usd in total for that one so I went straight for the KSC75 instead.


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah, I knew about that one. Sadly with how import fees in Sweden works, the cost would be around 10 usd in total for that one so I went straight for the KSC75 instead.


wow, that's borderline criminal. I need to stay away from these cause then I'll have more to obsess about. Earbuds and iems keep me occupied plenty.


----------



## Sam L

digititus said:


> Congrats! I just received the RW-1000 bass version. Really enjoying it so far. Similar impressions to yours. Enjoy


hmmm.... now I'm really curious as to how the sound is different between the rw1000 and rw2000.


----------



## Sam L

possibly inconsequential update: I've dusted off my old macbook and will be testing system-wide eq implementations.

Mac OS users, what are you using?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> wow, that's borderline criminal. I need to stay away from these cause then I'll have more to obsess about. Earbuds and iems keep me occupied plenty.


Your wallet will be happier if you havent been sucked into too many holes lol.

I just fell into the headphone hole and I am already in the iem/earbud hole.....my wallet doesnt like it at all.


----------



## digititus

Sam L said:


> hmmm.... now I'm really curious as to how the sound is different between the rw1000 and rw2000.


The RW-1000 bass is similar to RW-9. Less bass emphasis, but it is there if you play bass heavy tracks. It's more detailed and at higher volume has more control. I would summarize by saying a more professional and accurate sound. I'm guessing the 2000 is a refinement of this sound.


----------



## jogawag

assassin10000 said:


> Can you check the O.D. with your calipers? Thanks.



The O.D. of the yincrow rw-2000 is 16.7 mm, the same as the Smabat ST-10 whose shell shape is similar when turned over.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jogawag said:


> The O.D. of the yincrow rw-2000 is 16.7 mm, the same as the Smabat ST-10 whose shell shape is similar when turned over.


how does the bass on the RW-2000 compare to the ST-10?


----------



## jogawag

RikudouGoku said:


> how does the bass on the RW-2000 compare to the ST-10?


The bass on the RW-2000 is about the same as the ST-10's, but the mid-treble on the RW-2000 is crisper.


----------



## cheebs

Sam L said:


> Before getting exposed into the world of buds, I really thought measurements and their impact on user-perceived sound would see "end game" conclusions as we see more and more gras measurements (including crin getting his 43ag-7.) But the reality is there's always the inescapable user variable dependent on ear anatomy.
> 
> I agree we are getting closer to ear drum accuracy and we are starting to see consolidated opinions as to what sounds good (generally) with iems and headphones. But with earbuds, there's a disturbing lack of regard for the format. Someone on another thread mention bringing up earbuds at a headphone meetup only to be summarily dismissed.



I'd like to think that with more measurements, more people would start to try out more buds, and research more into the form factor. And with more people trying this out, there'd be a lot more attention that manufacturers draw to this side of the hobby. Just like crin and tyll did with their measurements, they just hold manufacturers more accountable with their tuning at the very least. They'd have to find more solutions to creating a better measuring earbud, especially when there's a target that they must achieve. Leading to more innovation in this space, or at the very least a lot more safe tuning options in the market.


----------



## 1clearhead

RikudouGoku said:


> NICE!
> 
> Is the timbre and tonality very natural as well (like the X6)? Since my other buds with similar bass to the X6 have all sacrificed their timbre,tonality, mids and treble for it (Turandot, HE150pro).
> 
> If I like the RW-9, I might go for the RW-1000 or RW-2000.


The RW-9 are spectacular sounding ear buds. They are on another level of clarity and enjoyment for such a low asking price. You wont' be disappointed!


----------



## cheebs

Any suggestions for Etymotic-like sound signature? Flat, but not too rolled off bass, mids emphasis is fine, treble well-extended. Preferably with replaceable cable, but sound quality is the priority.
Would also like to try PK shelled, but I can fit any earbud fine.


----------



## assassin10000

jogawag said:


> The bass on the RW-2000 is about the same as the ST-10's, but the mid-treble on the RW-2000 is crisper.



Good to know. Is it also a bit brighter (more treble) or is it just more defined/detailed (same amount of treble)?


----------



## chocolates

any opinions on the fitear iems? there's not a whole ton of english info on these (i'm curious about the TG334 specifically, though anything works i suppose)


----------



## cheebs

chocolates said:


> any opinions on the fitear iems? there's not a whole ton of english info on these (i'm curious about the TG334 specifically, though anything works i suppose)


Wrong thread?


----------



## chocolates

oops, yeah  wasn't paying attention to the thread i had opened; sorry about that!


----------



## jogawag

assassin10000 said:


> Good to know. Is it also a bit brighter (more treble) or is it just more defined/detailed (same amount of treble)?


I feel rw-2000 is a bit brighter and more defined/detailed, both by more treble, beacuse rw-2000's include cable is OCC&Silver Foil Wire Mixed.


----------



## brianforever (Nov 26, 2020)

povidlo said:


> Received 1MORE EO320 over the weekend, purchased from Amazon.it.
> 
> Packaging and accessories are above average. Using foamies, they are very comfortable to wear, probably the most comfortable earbuds I've tried so far. Cord is braided until Y-split.
> 
> ...


I believe this is an overpriced version of the lower-priced Headroom MS16


----------



## talponne

Sam L said:


> possibly inconsequential update: I've dusted off my old macbook and will be testing system-wide eq implementations.
> 
> Mac OS users, what are you using?


I use JRiver as a player,
but I don't use a system-wide eq.


----------



## furyossa

brianforever said:


> I believe this is an overpriced version of the lower-priced Headroom MS16


Just "run away" the next time you come across these shells. They kill the sound
see this post


----------



## cheebs

furyossa said:


> Just "run away" the next time you come across these shells. They kill the sound
> see this post


Personally experimented with this, and it's true.


----------



## furyossa

cheebs said:


> Personally experimented with this, and it's true.


Looks can be deceiving. I couldn't believe it when I opened them. The design is a total failure


----------



## brianforever

furyossa said:


> Just "run away" the next time you come across these shells. They kill the sound
> see this post


haha, you don't see me running  this is just one of my favourite earbuds, in fact, my top 10s..your image and your post had other earbuds and even the described image stating the MS16 is not showing the same shell shape at all, this is the case of mistaken identity,(wrong earbuds you're calling out)

Everyone I know who owns it has stellar comments on it


----------



## povidlo

brianforever said:


> I believe this is an overpriced version of the lower-priced Headroom MS16


Haven't tried MS16, I don't think so though. 

They have different specs.

MS16 
Sensitivity:115±3dBdB
Resistance:16Ω

EO320
Sensitivity:107dBdB
Resistance:32Ω

MS16 is also reviewed to have good mids: "The mids are amazingly clear and crisp" . I hear completely opposite with EO320 whereas the mids sound like the weakest part of the spectrum.

Looks like they're using similar shells though. Not something uncommon with earbuds, there are few shell variations around generally.


----------



## furyossa

brianforever said:


> haha, you don't see me running  this is just one of my favourite earbuds, in fact, my top 10s..your image and your post had other earbuds and even the described image stating the MS16 is not showing the same shell shape at all, this is the case of mistaken identity,(wrong earbuds you're calling out)
> 
> Everyone I know who owns it has stellar comments on it


I didn't talk about the driver, which is ok for budget-friendly earbuds, but about the shells. I tried a few high impedance DIY drivers, like 400ohm graphene and 
600ohm beryllium and the sound is very congested.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Can anyone compare TONEKING Dendroaspis Viridis and TO600?


----------



## 1Q84

Just received the yincrow X6, its okay for its price, but for price to performance ratio I'd still consider the Koss line-up more bang for the buck.

Does the X6's need burn-in? so far liking the donut foams more than the full foams, more transparent overall though mid bass I think is more boomy, but better tonality than full foams, YMMV.


----------



## furyossa

1Q84 said:


> Just received the yincrow X6, its okay for its price, but for price to performance ratio I'd still consider the Koss line-up more bang for the buck.
> 
> Does the X6's need burn-in? so far liking the donut foams more than the full foams, more transparent overall though mid bass I think is more boomy, but better tonality than full foams, YMMV.


It costs you nothing to try. Most of the earphones can benefit from a break-in process.


----------



## cheebs

Budget PK shelled, preferably flat sound signature?


----------



## jogawag

cheebs said:


> Budget PK shelled, preferably flat sound signature?


NiceHCK B40


----------



## cheebs

jogawag said:


> NiceHCK B40



That's bigger than PK though.


----------



## jogawag

cheebs said:


> That's bigger than PK though.


But smaller than MX500 shell.


----------



## cheebs

jogawag said:


> But smaller than MX500 shell.



Looking specifically for the PK shell size, to try.


----------



## furyossa (Nov 27, 2020)

cheebs said:


> Budget PK shelled, preferably flat sound signature?


If you are interested in build your unique PK model I will gladly suggest this shell and driver
Best PK driver (150ohm "red film" you can't find on Ali anymore, but Taobao still have them)

Another choice will be
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32655431609.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32801890526.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32811888693.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32993083989.html


----------



## jogawag

cheebs said:


> Looking specifically for the PK shell size, to try.


So, you can try this.
https://www.rholupat.com/willsound-buds/pk32-gendhis.html


----------



## cheebs

furyossa said:


> If you are interested in build your unique PK model I will gladly suggest this shell and driver
> Another choice will be
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32655431609.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32801890526.html
> ...



Might try these out in the future, no time to solder for now.


----------



## sutosuto

Thanks @baskingshark I ordered after seeing your posting. I like this Beryllium earbud more than my Fengru TC200 and RY4S. To my ears, they sound more "real" (do not know how to describe it) and also get more bass.


----------



## baskingshark

sutosuto said:


> Thanks @baskingshark I ordered after seeing your posting. I like this Beryllium earbud more than my Fengru TC200 and RY4S. To my ears, they sound more "real" (do not know how to describe it) and also get more bass.



Good stuff, we gotta thank @KeyStar too for his positive impressions. Are they difficult to drive? I'm still waiting for my set from 11/11 =(


----------



## sutosuto

P


baskingshark said:


> Good stuff, we gotta thank @KeyStar too for his positive impressions. Are they difficult to drive? I'm still waiting for my set from 11/11 =(


My listening volume for my iems such as A6 on my Hiby R5 usually is 40, for this Be, I play at 50 while Fengru I need up to 60.


----------



## Futureproof20

Hi folks,
I have _*Liberty Air 2*_ at the moment which I am not happy with as the mic is not the best! I am being asked by my family and friends to use loudspeaker or the wired headphones since what I say is not clear on the other side of the line!
Can you suggest *a wireless earbuds or headphone or headset preferably below $150 USD* and with EU delivery? If there is any black Friday deal option that would be appreciate too!
Before Liberty Air 2 I had *Creative Outlier Air *which I believe both are very similar, I believe it is time for a little upgrade 
My main use would be Whatsapp calls on Android if I can use it for Zoom and Teams phone call on laptop would be great!
Thanks


----------



## furyossa (Nov 27, 2020)

Futureproof20 said:


> Hi folks,
> I have _*Liberty Air 2*_ at the moment which I am not happy with as the mic is not the best! I am being asked by my family and friends to use loudspeaker or the wired headphones since what I say is not clear on the other side of the line!
> Can you suggest *a wireless earbuds or headphone or headset preferably below $150 USD* and with EU delivery? If there is any black Friday deal option that would be appreciate too!
> Before Liberty Air 2 I had *Creative Outlier Air *which I believe both are very similar, I believe it is time for a little upgrade
> ...


I have the same experience with Liberty Air 2, the sound is very good but the mic is below average although it is advertised as:
_Perfect for Home Offices: Each earbud is equipped with two microphones and cVc 8.0 noise reduction technology. 
Environmental noises are reduced by 60%, while 95% of your voice is retained so you sound louder and clearer on the other end._
Yeah right 
Even if you go with Sony or Bose you will probably get a slightly better mic performance but it's not worth the money, especially if you plan to use them for conferences and calls. Also, these are not even close to the quality that has Gaming headset or stand-alone mic and will cost you less


----------



## dissociativity

sutosuto said:


> Thanks @baskingshark I ordered after seeing your posting. I like this Beryllium earbud more than my Fengru TC200 and RY4S. To my ears, they sound more "real" (do not know how to describe it) and also get more bass.


As I said before, the wooden shell is horrible for fit, slippery and overly long after the the end where the driver sits, instead of going inwards for better fit like a qian69, he150 pro or headroom ms16, I highly recommend ordering the cheaper mx500 shell model without such an almost 'sticky' rubbery horrible microphonic cable.

I do love the sound of the 32 ohm bery though, it's definitely the budget winner of 2020 for me, finally a competitor for the qian 69 for the first time.


----------



## furyossa

dissociativity said:


> As I said before, the wooden shell is horrible for fit, slippery and overly long after the the end where the driver sits, instead of going inwards for better fit like a qian69, he150 pro or headroom ms16, I highly recommend ordering the cheaper mx500 shell model without such an almost 'sticky' rubbery horrible microphonic cable.
> 
> I do love the sound of the 32 ohm bery though, it's definitely the budget winner of 2020 for me, finally a competitor for the qian 69 for the first time.


This post explains your problem


----------



## Futureproof20

furyossa said:


> I have the same experience with Liberty Air 2, the sound is very good but the mic is below average although it is advertised as:
> _Perfect for Home Offices: Each earbud is equipped with two microphones and cVc 8.0 noise reduction technology.
> Environmental noises are reduced by 60%, while 95% of your voice is retained so you sound louder and clearer on the other end._
> Yeah right
> Even if you go with Sony or Bose you will probably get a slightly better mic performance but it's not worth the money, especially if you plan to use them for conferences and calls. Also, these are not even close to the quality that has Gaming headset or stand-alone mic and will cost you less



Thanks for the suggestions, do you have any specific model in mind? Which type of wireless headphone (earbud, overhead headsets or and for what use you think is best fit for conference calls via laptop or via phone as well as Corona calls and video calls with family and friends?


----------



## furyossa

Futureproof20 said:


> Thanks for the suggestions, do you have any specific model in mind? Which type of wireless headphone (earbud, overhead headsets or and for what use you think is best fit for conference calls via laptop or via phone as well as Corona calls and video calls with family and friends?


HyperX Cloud Flight series is around $150. There a few different models so before you decide, watch some reviews on YT to see all features
If I'm not mistaken, it seems to me that Cloud Flight S is the latest model. Probably you can get some of these in your country
https://www.hyperxgaming.com/us/headsets/cloud-gaming-headset?partnum=HHSC2X-BA-RD/G#atc
https://www.hyperxgaming.com/us/headsets/cloud-flight-wireless-gaming-headset.
Also, Roccat has a nice offer


----------



## sutosuto

dissociativity said:


> As I said before, the wooden shell is horrible for fit, slippery and overly long after the the end where the driver sits, instead of going inwards for better fit like a qian69, he150 pro or headroom ms16, I highly recommend ordering the cheaper mx500 shell model without such an almost 'sticky' rubbery horrible microphonic cable.
> 
> I do love the sound of the 32 ohm bery though, it's definitely the budget winner of 2020 for me, finally a competitor for the qian 69 for the first time.


I always have a fit problem with all my earbuds even for the smaller shell DIY PK2 I bought from Chitty. I never use wear earbuds for long hours listening.

Regarding the sound of the Be, it sounds meh with phone, S8, as my source this morning.


----------



## Sam L

1Q84 said:


> Just received the yincrow X6, its okay for its price, but for price to performance ratio I'd still consider the Koss line-up more bang for the buck.
> 
> Does the X6's need burn-in? so far liking the donut foams more than the full foams, more transparent overall though mid bass I think is more boomy, but better tonality than full foams, YMMV.


Which Koss are you talking about? Do they still make ear buds?


----------



## Sam L

cheebs said:


> Any suggestions for Etymotic-like sound signature? Flat, but not too rolled off bass, mids emphasis is fine, treble well-extended. Preferably with replaceable cable, but sound quality is the priority.
> Would also like to try PK shelled, but I can fit any earbud fine.


Were you the one who posted on the earbuds anonymous fb group? 

Earbuds, by in large, are far from ety tuning. The closest you'll get is in eq'ing your smabat s10s


----------



## cheebs

Sam L said:


> Were you the one who posted on the earbuds anonymous fb group?
> 
> Earbuds, by in large, are far from ety tuning. The closest you'll get is in eq'ing your smabat s10s



Yeah, I got my buds kinda close. I'm exploring the DIY side of this hobby now, I'm just not satisfied with the current options, and I don't like to EQ. Hoping to know how to tune these things, and getting a measurement rig by next year. I'm going to try and get a diffuse field tuning, because DF is just perfect to my ears.


----------



## KeyStar

sutosuto said:


> Thanks @baskingshark I ordered after seeing your posting. I like this Beryllium earbud more than my Fengru TC200 and RY4S. To my ears, they sound more "real" (do not know how to describe it) and also get more bass.


Yes they get better with burnin to great value buds.


----------



## KeyStar

dissociativity said:


> As I said before, the wooden shell is horrible for fit, slippery and overly long after the the end where the driver sits, instead of going inwards for better fit like a qian69, he150 pro or headroom ms16, I highly recommend ordering the cheaper mx500 shell model without such an almost 'sticky' rubbery horrible microphonic cable.
> 
> I do love the sound of the 32 ohm bery though, it's definitely the budget winner of 2020 for me, finally a competitor for the qian 69 for the first time.


Have no fit issues here but understand your issue and I have the same with some large metal buds in the past.


----------



## jasswolf

Sam L said:


> Which Koss are you talking about? Do they still make ear buds?


In the context of earbuds, probably the KSC75. I disagree when I'm comparing that to the 2019 NiceHCK MX500, but both are great value for money.

My Yincrow X6 is due early next week, so I'll be sure to compare to my KSC75X.


----------



## povidlo

KOSS does offer traditional earbuds.

Check out KE7 and KE10.


----------



## RikudouGoku

First impressions on the Toneking Dendroaspis Virids:

Bass is just a typical earbud bass and nothing special.

Mids/treble and especially female vocals however...oh boy, absolutely stunningly good. Very clean and detailed as well, with a holographic soundstage (which I have never experienced with buds before) that is huge in both width/depth.

Technicalities are extremely good as well.

Take these statements with a grain of salt as this is still early impressions: but I think that the Viridis has the best technicalites, mids and treble out of all my buds.


----------



## superuser1

RikudouGoku said:


> First impressions on the Toneking Dendroaspis Virids:
> 
> Bass is just a typical earbud bass and nothing special.
> 
> ...


How is the fit and I think you should let it burn in for 50 at least?


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> First impressions on the Toneking Dendroaspis Virids:
> 
> Bass is just a typical earbud bass and nothing special.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the impressions. Is it even better in technical performance than the more expensive Turandot?


----------



## waynes world

jasswolf said:


> In the context of earbuds, probably the KSC75. I disagree when I'm comparing that to the 2019 NiceHCK MX500, but both are great value for money.
> 
> My Yincrow X6 is due early next week, so I'll be sure to compare to my KSC75X.



I've had the KSC75's (on parts express headband) for years, and they are definitely classics (although personally I prefer the portapro/sportapro drivers on parts express headband for a little more bass).

I've had the 2019 NiceHCK MX500's for a week, and they are definitely awesome as well! I'm really happy with how they sound.

So yes, both are awesome value for the money


----------



## chompy

How does Toneking Tomahawk sound signature compare to Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis, Yincrow RW-1000 Bass Pro, Smabat M2Pro and Smabat ST-10s?

If I want to improve my Toneking Tomahawk and I'm after a fun V shaped earbud, which one would you recommend me?


----------



## RikudouGoku

chompy said:


> How does Toneking Tomahawk sound signature compare to Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis, Yincrow RW-1000 Bass Pro, Smabat M2Pro and Smabat ST-10s?
> 
> If I want to improve my Toneking Tomahawk and I'm after a fun V shaped earbud, which one would you recommend me?


If you want a V-shaped bud you can scratch the Viridis.


----------



## Con Par (Nov 29, 2020)

*Guys can you suggest something like this?*




Im looking for earbud style and the ability to add foam pads .
Thank you!


----------



## rprodrigues

Con Par said:


> *Guys can you suggest something like this?*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would go with some set as BT20s + earbuds with MMCX connector.



Spoiler: Click here...


----------



## Sam L

Con Par said:


> *Guys can you suggest something like this?*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wouldn't recommend that format for audio fidelity. And I'm a big fan of this type of semi-open design. I use them for running and podcasts. But if you insist, I recommend the fiil cc. They'll need some eq work to bring down the upper mids though. The bass on the cc is quite huge, easily comparable to earbuds.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Lowered all earbuds ranks by 1 (except the DQSM Turandot which got dropped from B+ to C-) and added the Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis rank S.
Consider it a teaser for my upcoming review of the Viridis.


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Lowered all earbuds ranks by 1 (except the DQSM Turandot which got dropped from B+ to C-) and added the Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis rank S.
> Consider it a teaser for my upcoming review of the Viridis.


By the way, thank you for reviewing earbuds. I'm sure we all appreciate your efforts to bring more exposure to the format.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> By the way, thank you for reviewing earbuds. I'm sure we all appreciate your efforts to bring more exposure to the format.


Np, I agree that earbuds and headphones as well needs more exposure when it comes to chi-fi. (headphones are dominated by non-chifi brands while buds....dont get a lot of new buds at all...)


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Lowered all earbuds ranks by 1 (except the DQSM Turandot which got dropped from B+ to C-) and added the Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis rank S.
> Consider it a teaser for my upcoming review of the Viridis.


Thanks for sharing this with us. You mentioned earlier (first impression) that bass has average quality. I hope that will change a little later, after the break-in period.
We recently discussed about bass vent on the front cover. I wonder if the diameter of the hole is reduced, whether it will affect the bass quantity itself. 
This can be done with insulating tape and a small hole in the middle.


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Thanks for sharing this with us. You mentioned earlier (first impression) that bass has average quality. I hope that will change a little later, after the break-in period.
> We recently discussed about bass vent on the front cover. I wonder if the diameter of the hole is reduced, whether it will affect the bass quantity itself.
> This can be done with insulating tape and a small hole in the middle.






It looks like the bass isnt coming from the center though. And I very much doubt the bass quantity will increase (i am not a believer of burn in) and if it did, it has to increase by a lot to make a difference on recing it or not (for bassy genres, like Hip-hop, EDM).


The vocals on these are really intoxicating.


----------



## furyossa (Nov 29, 2020)

RikudouGoku said:


> It looks like the bass isnt coming from the center though. And I very much doubt the bass quantity will increase (i am not a believer of burn in) and if it did, it has to increase by a lot to make a difference on recing it or not (for bassy genres, like Hip-hop, EDM).
> 
> 
> The vocals on these are really intoxicating.



I'm still amazed with that positioning  
This type of shell, especially when there is no vent at the rear side, in most cases allow for a little more intimate sound, better mids,  precise imaging, and wide soundstage.
Of course, it also depends on the driver itself. Is it the same in this case?


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> I'm still amazed with that positioning
> This type of shell, especially when there is no vent at the rear side, in most cases allow for a little more intimate sound, better mids,  precise imaging, and wide soundstage.
> Of course, it also depends on the driver itself. Is it the same in this case?


Soundstage isnt much wider than the NiceHCK MX500 but it is deeper and is the first bud I have experienced some slight holographic effect with.

Imaging isnt anything special, sure it is better than the ones I have but it wont make you go wow over it...(guess the LZ A7 has increased my standards a lot lol)

Mids are godly though, the best of all my buds.


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> It looks like the bass isnt coming from the center though. And I very much doubt the bass quantity will increase (i am not a believer of burn in) and if it did, it has to increase by a lot to make a difference on recing it or not (for bassy genres, like Hip-hop, EDM).
> 
> 
> The vocals on these are really intoxicating.


I would think the bass would be focused in the center?


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> I would think the bass would be focused in the center?


The marking in this picture is very strange. I hope someone who is an expert for speakers can explain this positioning


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> The marking in this picture is very strange. I hope someone who is an expert for speakers can explain this positioning


yeah, I got confused as well. Since I believe on 2.0 speakers, the bigger hole should be taking care of the bass. But on those pictures the treble is coming out of the center hole and then mids, bass the further away you are.


----------



## assassin10000 (Nov 29, 2020)

There is probably no separation of where bass/mids/treble exits. The diaphragm moves air to produce sound waves and it comes out all 3 areas. It's not like it has 3 BA drivers and sound tubes.

Maybe in slightly different quantities due to the size of the openings, as the larger center will allow easier airflow due to less resistance. But all frequencies will be included. IMO.



Also @furyossa there is a rear vent. Just hard to see in most of their stock photos.  toneking likes their vent near the connector and on the backside of the driver on many of their designs.


----------



## RikudouGoku

assassin10000 said:


> There is probably no separation of where bass/mids/treble exits. The diaphragm moves air to produce sound waves and it comes out all 3 areas. It's not like it has 3 BA drivers and sound tubes.
> 
> Maybe in slightly different quantities due to the size of the openings, as the larger center will allow easier airflow due to less resistance. But all frequencies will be included. IMO.
> 
> ...


hahaha, just noticed that vent lol. It is covered by the foam though.


----------



## assassin10000

RikudouGoku said:


> hahaha, just noticed that vent lol. It is covered by the foam though.



Yeah, earbud foams are porous enough that it should have very little to no effect on how the earbud sounds. At least in my experience after tuning DIY earbuds.


_________________________


I've been enjoying my DIY TWS buds made with a pair of X12 Pro and a 14.8mm 40Ω PU/Ti driver the last couple of days.


----------



## furyossa (Nov 29, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Also @furyossa there is a rear vent. Just hard to see in most of their stock photos.  toneking likes their vent near the connector and on the backside of the driver on many of their designs.


You already know what I mean by "rear" vent.   Not that vent. Also, this vent is 80% blocked by ear especially if worn str8-up


----------



## assassin10000 (Nov 29, 2020)

furyossa said:


> You already know what I mean by "rear" vent.   Not that vent. Also, this vent is 80% blocked by ear especially if worn str8-up



Yeah. Your style rear vent makes (to me) an overly warm muddy sound signature. But that could just be the drivers I tried it with didn't pair well with that kind of rear air flow.

Or you know, just our personal preferences differ. 


Give that the vent is aligned with the mmcx, the vent sits at the intertragic notch when worn down and probably exposed enough to work properly. They use the same spot on many of their buds. If it was on the left or right I'd be worried.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> There is probably no separation of where bass/mids/treble exits. The diaphragm moves air to produce sound waves and it comes out all 3 areas. It's not like it has 3 BA drivers and sound tubes.
> 
> Maybe in slightly different quantities due to the size of the openings, as the larger center will allow easier airflow due to less resistance. But all frequencies will be included. IMO.


And you are right about this. There is literally no way to perform 3 frequency separation here. 
In this way, the amount of sound wave is only directed more centrally than laterally, as is the case with MX500 or PK cover.


----------



## furyossa (Nov 29, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Yeah. Your style rear vent makes (to me) an overly warm muddy sound signature. But that could just be the drivers I tried it with didn't pair well with that kind of rear air flow.
> 
> Or you know, just our personal preferences differ.
> 
> ...


Yes, this rear vent, generally serves more to regulate the pressure from the back wave, so the diameter is quite important. On the MX500 shell, we have a rear vent at the point where the cables pass so that the cables themselves regulate the diameter. On DIY metal shells, we usually have a vent on the back that is covered with metal mesh from outside but from inside I also place some foam and punch a hole (starts with a small diameter). It all depends on the driver itself as you noticed. For some drivers works well and for some not (150ohm red film for example)


----------



## furyossa (Nov 29, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> I've been enjoying my DIY TWS buds made with a pair of X12 Pro and a 14.8mm 40Ω PU/Ti driver the last couple of days.


*The best DIY project ie functional prototype this year  *
This is my earlier comment about these gems


----------



## jasswolf (Nov 29, 2020)

jasswolf said:


> In the context of earbuds, probably the KSC75. I disagree when I'm comparing that to the 2019 NiceHCK MX500, but both are great value for money.
> 
> My Yincrow X6 is due early next week, so I'll be sure to compare to my KSC75X.





waynes world said:


> I've had the KSC75's (on parts express headband) for years, and they are definitely classics (although personally I prefer the portapro/sportapro drivers on parts express headband for a little more bass).
> 
> I've had the 2019 NiceHCK MX500's for a week, and they are definitely awesome as well! I'm really happy with how they sound.
> 
> So yes, both are awesome value for the money


Yincrow X6 are here, and they are shaping up to be excellent value as well.

Sans foams, bass is clean but lacks a little authority and the lower mids feel sucked out. Highs are clean and the lower treble and upper mids are balanced.
Donut foams fixes the bass and lower mids, but the contrast between the upper mids and the lower treble makes upper register vocals sound very hot to the point of piercing.
Full foams offers the best balance, at the expense of a tiny bit of mid detail.

Comparative to the MX500, the MX500 are great with donut foams while only touching the edge of sibilance via the same mechanisms, and are outright euphoric without foams if you're listening to something almost entirely devoid of anything below 100Hz. Full foams dampen the soundstage and bring the lower mids forward a bit more. As has been identified before, the X6 brings the bass, and eats into the detail level a touch with the highs and mids. Both are great, and both have their place, with the X6 being more versatile.

Compared to the KSC75s, the X6 offers better bass compared to the standard KSC75 fitment, and weaker treble extension. The X6 wins on bass clarity, but loses on mid clarity and treble clarity, but the KSC75s accomplish this with more sibilance and perhaps too much of a bite on vocals due to the presence/lower treble boosts. Pressing the KSC75 closer to represent a headband fit, the bass hump and lack of clarity becomes more apparent and the soundstage narrows a tad, but the mids and highs remain clear.

Frankly, all three are great, and you can't go wrong with any of them, but I would describe the two earbuds as being more fun for more genres of music. The KSC75 when it hits its stride though, you really can enjoy the tuning without caring about and blass bloat or detail issues: it's quite euphoric.

I think most people would enjoy swapping between the X6 and MX500, and that the two basically have the KSC75 covered at the same price, with the MX500 reaching further than the KSC75 in most of what its signature does minus a presence boost, and the Yincrow X6 beating it in the genres where the KSC75 tonality and technicalities fall behind.


----------



## Sam L

My HA-2 sat in my graveyard of battery dac/amps for about a year. I finally sourced a battery and now it's up and running for my journey into high impedance earbuds.

Today's setup will be between the rw-9 and another piece of equipment I shook the dust off of -- beoplay h6 1st gen headphones.



Happy listening!


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> My HA-2 sat in my graveyard of battery dac/amps for about a year. I finally sourced a battery and now it's up and running for my journey into high impedance earbuds.
> 
> Today's setup will be between the rw-9 and another piece of equipment I shook the dust off of -- beoplay h6 1st gen headphones.
> 
> ...


I always liked the classy look of Oppo. A real DAC/AMP gem. 
BTW ... I'm in a similar mood today... but with SMSL IQ (balanced mode) and DIY 130ohm Beryllium sparky


----------



## RikudouGoku

Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis review is up: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/toneking-dendroaspis-viridis.24788/reviews#item-review-24838

Rank: S


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis review is up: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/toneking-dendroaspis-viridis.24788/reviews#item-review-24838
> 
> Rank: S


damn... temptation dangling in front of my face with your link.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> damn... temptation dangling in front of my face with your link.


hahah, you already got tons of buds though. Maybe save up to replace your stolen A7 again.


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> hahah, you already got tons of buds though. Maybe save up to replace your stolen A7 again.


argh. ok. you're right. Nice line in the review by the way, "The Viridis is very similar to the ME80 and I would say it is the upgrade to it with better quality across the entire spectrum." Excellent and comprehensive review, as always.

ME80 fans, time to save up and get the Viridis.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> argh. ok. you're right. Nice line in the review by the way, "The Viridis is very similar to the ME80 and I would say it is the upgrade to it with better quality across the entire spectrum." Excellent and comprehensive review, as always.
> 
> ME80 fans, time to save up and get the Viridis.


What a coincidence that the ME80 is discontinued right?


----------



## Sam L

how are polls posted in here? I'm guessing only moderators can do so?


----------



## RikudouGoku (Nov 30, 2020)

Sam L said:


> how are polls posted in here? I'm guessing only moderators can do so?


I think you have to create a whole new thread for the poll.

Edit: but you can use something like this to create one. https://strawpoll.com/create


----------



## furyossa

Perfect match for Viridis https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33041981078.html
But it is difficult to find other parts for cables in green. Black will be fine


----------



## RuFrost (Nov 30, 2020)

I want to find\buy\have\own DQSM Turandot and have ABnormal Diomnes LV2 and shozy SG for trade or sale (not desirable...last experiments and quit). PM who is interested))


----------



## rprodrigues

RikudouGoku said:


> What a coincidence that the ME80 is discontinued right?



ME80 (R.I.P.) may have made room for the upcoming EBX Pro...


----------



## twheshka

cenizas said:


> #Aliexpress US $15.79 21%OFF | FENGRU Diy White lotus S300 In Ear Earphone 300ohm High Impedance 300 Ohm Earbud Earplugs HIFI Earbud Vocal Earbuds
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_dZ74jk4
> ..... Will post further impressions after burning in and will compare them to the k's 300 and ty hi-z 314 300ohm as well.


Do you have any further impressions about the White lotus? What would you consider an adequate burn in period? Thank you for your homework.
Tim


----------



## rprodrigues

twheshka said:


> Do you have any further impressions about the White lotus? What would you consider an adequate burn in period? Thank you for your homework.
> Tim



Try here


----------



## Abu144Hz

Hey guys I want some recommedations and I also have a few questions. Rn I own a NiceHCK B40, toneking tp16, a broken tingo tc200 and a broken ve monk+ . What other earbuds should I buy? Im considering buying vidos and recabling them, but i've heard yincrow x6 is similar but better from this one thread. Is the vido gonna be equally good if i recable them? Also im considering re-purchasing the tingo tc200s, should I or should I not? Is there a better alternative?


----------



## furyossa

Abu144Hz said:


> Hey guys I want some recommedations and I also have a few questions. Rn I own a NiceHCK B40, toneking tp16, a broken tingo tc200 and a broken ve monk+ . What other earbuds should I buy? Im considering buying vidos and recabling them, but i've heard yincrow x6 is similar but better from this one thread. Is the vido gonna be equally good if i recable them? Also im considering re-purchasing the tingo tc200s, should I or should I not? Is there a better alternative?


Use Vido for recabling and enjoy with these two (TG-38s is better then TC200, TC300, TC400)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32809387979.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32435966900.html


----------



## Nimweth

moonnugs said:


> The ST-10S (silver and black. i dont have/want a proper amp at the moment) is in my cart right now! Is there an advantage to the ST-10 vs the ST-10s?


The ST-10s is more resolving and natural sounding. The ST-10 is warmer and more bass focused.


----------



## Nimweth

InstantSilence said:


> What are the best earphones as far as no fatiguing sound, an easy listen with clarity and good resolution? Cost no object? Earbuds only, not interested in iems


I would recommend the Smabat ST-10s (black/silver).


----------



## heero01

Which would be said to have the best bass with out to much bleed into the mids ?


----------



## Sam L (Dec 1, 2020)

heero01 said:


> Which would be said to have the best bass with out to much bleed into the mids ?


there's really only a handful that meet that requirement. Most buds have lower mid bloat. These come to mind

Nicehck me80 (discontinued)
yincrow rw-9 (rumored to be recently discontinued?)
yiincrow x6 (one of my favorites)
Y**y** bk2 (not much bass though)
Smabat s-10s (i have the blk/silver version)

**edit**
Just realized you want both bass and no lower mid bloat. X6 get's my vote.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> there's really only a handful that meet that requirement. Most buds have lower mid bloat. These come to mind
> 
> Nicehck me80 (discontinued)
> yincrow rw-9 (rumored to be recently discontinued?)
> ...


I was told by nicehck when I asked why they didnt sell the RW-9, that it was discontinued. 


+1 for the X6.


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> I was told by nicehck when I asked why they didnt sell the RW-9, that it was discontinued.
> 
> 
> +1 for the X6.


got it. Thanks for the confirmation. That's just silly. The rw-9 sounds better than 90% of the earbuds out there. I really don't get the listening expectations for the majority of the users in the earbud market. I remember awhile back looking at the poll on the EA FB group and seeing the me80 receiving something like 4 votes, while the monk plus had more than 30 votes. Just doesn't make sense...


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> got it. Thanks for the confirmation. That's just silly. The rw-9 sounds better than 90% of the earbuds out there. I really don't get the listening expectations for the majority of the users in the earbud market. I remember awhile back looking at the poll on the EA FB group and seeing the me80 receiving something like 4 votes, while the monk plus had more than 30 votes. Just doesn't make sense...


Yeah, I have the monk plus and lite and they both suck.


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> got it. Thanks for the confirmation. That's just silly. The rw-9 sounds better than 90% of the earbuds out there. I really don't get the listening expectations for the majority of the users in the earbud market. I remember awhile back looking at the poll on the EA FB group and seeing the me80 receiving something like 4 votes, while the monk plus had more than 30 votes. Just doesn't make sense...


Probably because Monk has been present for several years and has more users. me80 is a "lucky bag" model from last year


----------



## Sam L

Need to keep posting... Lol

Today's setup at the co-working space.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> Need to keep posting... Lol
> 
> Today's setup at the co-working space.


What amp and bud is that?


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> What amp and bud is that?


I've decided to not purchase a new amp for high impedance earbuds. Instead I'm turning to older stuff or resurrecting things from my dac/amp graveyard (dead batteries). This one is old school -- headamp pico dac/amp. Not a high res dac but it still does the job fine and power is pretty beefy for such a small package (.7w per channel @ 32ohms).

Buds are a gift. DYI 120 ohm beryllium with excellent stock tuning (zero lower mid bloat.)


----------



## heero01

Sam L said:


> there's really only a handful that meet that requirement. Most buds have lower mid bloat. These come to mind
> 
> Nicehck me80 (discontinued)
> yincrow rw-9 (rumored to be recently discontinued?)
> ...



Thanks for helping me.


----------



## axhng

assassin10000 said:


> Yeah, earbud foams are porous enough that it should have very little to no effect on how the earbud sounds. At least in my experience after tuning DIY earbuds.
> 
> 
> _________________________
> ...



inspired by assassin10000's DIY TWS earbuds, tried to do something similar too with a pair of Mifo O2 and vido I had lying around. So if it doesn't work, i won't miss either of them. Anyway, it took way more work to complete, and even though it does work, the payoff just isn't worth it imo. haha. While it does sound decent, and noticeably nicer than the Mifo originally was, it loses a bit of the lower mids that made the Vido enjoyable. I had to trim and reshape the earbuds shell a little, and had to use quite a bit of adhesive to secure it in place. The charging case had to be modded as well so that it would still fit (even with some foams), and I had to trim a lot of the plastic pieces away because it just wouldn't make proper contact with the charging contacts, and it took a lot of time to adjust it so that it would charge properly. So definitely wouldn't recommend using the Mifo O2 as a base. lol. But ngl, it is quite nice to have earbuds that are truly wireless. Really hope someday, some TWS maker will do something like this instead of the usual half in-ears.


----------



## furyossa

axhng said:


> inspired by assassin10000's DIY TWS earbuds, tried to do something similar too with a pair of Mifo O2 and vido I had lying around. So if it doesn't work, i won't miss either of them. Anyway, it took way more work to complete, and even though it does work, the payoff just isn't worth it imo. haha. While it does sound decent, and noticeably nicer than the Mifo originally was, it loses a bit of the lower mids that made the Vido enjoyable. I had to trim and reshape the earbuds shell a little, and had to use quite a bit of adhesive to secure it in place. The charging case had to be modded as well so that it would still fit (even with some foams), and I had to trim a lot of the plastic pieces away because it just wouldn't make proper contact with the charging contacts, and it took a lot of time to adjust it so that it would charge properly. So definitely wouldn't recommend using the Mifo O2 as a base. lol. But ngl, it is quite nice to have earbuds that are truly wireless. Really hope someday, some TWS maker will do something like this instead of the usual half in-ears.


Are you trying to dethrone the king? 
Hey man, seriously, you did this very well. Even if it didn't work out, it counts that you at least tried it. 
Post this mod on the *DIY Earbuds* thread


----------



## Sam L

axhng said:


> inspired by assassin10000's DIY TWS earbuds, tried to do something similar too with a pair of Mifo O2 and vido I had lying around. So if it doesn't work, i won't miss either of them. Anyway, it took way more work to complete, and even though it does work, the payoff just isn't worth it imo. haha. While it does sound decent, and noticeably nicer than the Mifo originally was, it loses a bit of the lower mids that made the Vido enjoyable. I had to trim and reshape the earbuds shell a little, and had to use quite a bit of adhesive to secure it in place. The charging case had to be modded as well so that it would still fit (even with some foams), and I had to trim a lot of the plastic pieces away because it just wouldn't make proper contact with the charging contacts, and it took a lot of time to adjust it so that it would charge properly. So definitely wouldn't recommend using the Mifo O2 as a base. lol. But ngl, it is quite nice to have earbuds that are truly wireless. Really hope someday, some TWS maker will do something like this instead of the usual half in-ears.


Good job. I love the Mifo 02 form factor but the sound quality is terrible so no loss there in using them experimentally.


----------



## axhng

furyossa said:


> Are you trying to dethrone the king?
> Hey man, seriously, you did this very well. Even if it didn't work out, it counts that you at least tried it.
> Post this mod on the *DIY Earbuds* thread



haha. thanks!! will do that in a bit!



Sam L said:


> Good job. I love the Mifo 02 form factor but the sound quality is terrible so no loss there in using them experimentally.



Thanks!!! Indeed. The form factor and design were great, which is why i bought them previously. but the excitement went away immediately after i started listening to them. lol. So no loss here if I mess it up.

On a slightly unrelated note, really enjoyed the previous pair of drivers i bought on shopee, so bought 2 extra pairs plus DIY cable so I can gift them to friends I know will enjoy them. sadly 1 of the driver started becoming softer a few mins into testing them and eventually just died. Not sure if i messed something up or the driver were faulty to begin with, but either way, quite happy with how the other pair turned out.


----------



## cappuchino

Has anyone had any experience with these DIY MX500s?About $3.00 with mic.


Spoiler: Buds


----------



## axhng (Dec 2, 2020)

okay, so the creative aurvana air is not going for like S$69 (+$10 shipping) in singapore, so around 60USD. the deal is tempting, but it is over a decade old afterall. Does anyone know how they stack up against newer earbuds like the ME80 for example? TIA!

https://sg.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/aurvana-air


----------



## Abu144Hz (Dec 2, 2020)

Hey guys you know anything analytical and cheap? Something neutral and accurate for mixing purposes and whatnot. My budget is below 5 usd. Idk if there even is such an earbud, so if it doesnt then its fine


----------



## baskingshark

Abu144Hz said:


> Hey guys you know anything analytical and cheap? Something neutral and accurate for mixing purposes and whatnot. My budget is below 5 usd. Idk if there even is such an earbud, so if it doesnt then its fine



I would say BK2, but that's about $20 USD. Below 5 bucks the good stuff is like Vidos, KBEAR Stellar, but most of them are not neutral and are slightly coloured. Even BK2 has some boost in the upper mids area. Perhaps if you can EQ to make the earbud more flat, then that's an option. U can ask the other esteemed members here who have some EQ profiles and equipment for their advise.

Though personally I wouldn't use earbuds for mixing as most of them have subbass roll off so you may not be getting an accurate picture of the bass, plus the earbuds lack isolation. Might be better to use headphones for mixing purposes, but YMMV of course.


----------



## chinmie

Abu144Hz said:


> Hey guys you know anything analytical and cheap? Something neutral and accurate for mixing purposes and whatnot. My budget is below 5 usd. Idk if there even is such an earbud, so if it doesnt then its fine



in a pinch, i prefer to use IEMs to mix than earbuds. the cheapest "neutral" sounding earbuds that i can think of would be the PT15, but that's still a little above $10 usd. 

if $5 is the limit, might as well get the vido and EQ them like @baskingshark suggested


----------



## jao29

RikudouGoku said:


> Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis review is up: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/toneking-dendroaspis-viridis.24788/reviews#item-review-24838
> 
> Rank: S


Would you still recommend the Viridis if my main genres are rock, rap and electronic music?


----------



## RikudouGoku

jao29 said:


> Would you still recommend the Viridis if my main genres are rock, rap and electronic music?


probably not. Rock is fine not bad or good, rap is pretty decent with its clean and fast sound. But electronic music will lack bass quantity. 

I recommend the Yincrow X6 for your genres if you want an earbud.


----------



## jao29

RikudouGoku said:


> probably not. Rock is fine not bad or good, rap is pretty decent with its clean and fast sound. But electronic music will lack bass quantity.
> 
> I recommend the Yincrow X6 for your genres if you want an earbud.


Thanks for this. I already have the rw9. Should I still buy the X6? Are their sound signatures that different to warrant the purchase?


----------



## RikudouGoku

jao29 said:


> Thanks for this. I already have the rw9. Should I still buy the X6? Are their sound signatures that different to warrant the purchase?


No idea, I myself will be getting my RW-9 soon so I will be able to finally find out what the differences are.


----------



## jao29

RikudouGoku said:


> No idea, I myself will be getting my RW-9 soon so I will be able to finally find out what the differences are.


Im looking forward in hearing your impressions on the rw9.  Thanks again


----------



## RikudouGoku

jao29 said:


> Im looking forward in hearing your impressions on the rw9.  Thanks again


yeah np. If I am lucky I might get it this week, if not I get it next week.


----------



## Abu144Hz

Sorry im being too overly active/asking too much questions here, but can somebody compare k's nameless and toneking tp16? I've heard someone say tp16 sounds like it but with better bass and slightly less highs. I already have tp16 so im worried if i pull the trigger i might be dissapointed that it sounds similar or worse than the tp16.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Sorry I used a translator

A week ago, I received 2 earbuds, and there was no time to write about them.

Prehistory:
There are 2 versions: Yincrow RW-1000 (Daniel) and then the Yincrow RW-1000 Bass Pro (Daniel) was released since there is a simple lack of bass.
The RW-1000 Bass Pro is on the same level as the regular RW-1000 but tuned a little warmer, so they are technically almost equally good. The Bass Pro has a better sense of musicality, while the regular RW-1000 is more neutral.

*Yincrow RW-2000 (Bison)* is an evolution of the Yincrow RW-1000 Bass Pro, which is popular





This is not a jump, but simply improved various details in the sound, weight/mass in the sound appeared, the bass became more than in Bass Pro, the highs were softened a little for comfort, but the cymbals are still heard well, the clatter and all that, the scene remained just as good, but in Bass Pro, it seemed to be wider. I used thin foam rubber, it fits well with foam rubber.





About *Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis*, it's good to sit down with hooks, after warming up there is bass, there are details, the stage is wide, the sound is a little dry, on the contrary, the RW-2000 has a noticeable weight in the sound. Compared to the lightly pressed tops of the RW-2000, on the contrary, they emit Sssssss like a green snake and have bright cymbal attacks. I used thick foam. In general, the headphones turned out to be quite good considering the sale price; for those who do not like the upper middle, they may not be suitable. In terms of sound level, this pushes Silver and Green Smabats, but I would say I liked the Gold ones better, but they are pressed against the gold tops, and the fit only fits well behind the ear.


----------



## Sam L (Dec 2, 2020)

Today's mobile listening setup.

I will be spending a good deal of time in the morning with my headphones, H6 1st gen, then move on to the Faaeals. I compensate the headphones to oratory1990 curve and use them as my main reference when I'm tweaking my earbud target curves.


----------



## Sam L

Alex.Grimm said:


> Sorry I used a translator
> 
> A week ago, I received 2 earbuds, and there was no time to write about them.
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing your observations. I'm going to hold off indefinitely my plans to get this bud. I'm happy with what I have and will devote attention to sub $20 earbuds for now.


----------



## Sam L (Dec 2, 2020)

*Virtual Earbud Meet-up!*

Hey All, last week I asked if anyone would be interested in a virtual meet-up to discuss, share various topics regarding our passion for earbuds.

There seems to be decent interest from users over on the FB group, so I feel good about moving forward.

Description and sample agenda is in the calendar poll.

https://xoyondo.com/dp/oPjVdpUr5iXtilP


----------



## Sam L

Abu144Hz said:


> Sorry im being too overly active/asking too much questions here, but can somebody compare k's nameless and toneking tp16? I've heard someone say tp16 sounds like it but with better bass and slightly less highs. I already have tp16 so im worried if i pull the trigger i might be dissapointed that it sounds similar or worse than the tp16.


you can never ask too many questions here. keep the questions coming!

I have a toneking tp16 inbound. When I get it i'll compare it with the Nameless.


----------



## macunaima

Hey guys any thoughts on the fiio em5? im really interested in a big soundstage and imaging are they good ofr that?


----------



## macunaima

macunaima said:


> Hey guys any thoughts on the fiio em5? im really interested in a big soundstage and imaging are they good ofr that?


i currently have a smabat st-10 as my "flagship " and i love the imaging and sound signature of them(the fit is kinda bad thought), but i found the soundstage to be very underwhelming and i would like to step up my game, i love a neutral sound so i dont mind if the em5's have a very neutral sound signature for what ive heard other people saying


----------



## waynes world

Abu144Hz said:


> Hey guys I want some recommedations and I also have a few questions. Rn I own a NiceHCK B40, toneking tp16, a broken tingo tc200 and a broken ve monk+ . What other earbuds should I buy? Im considering buying vidos and recabling them, but i've heard yincrow x6 is similar but better from this one thread. Is the vido gonna be equally good if i recable them? Also im considering re-purchasing the tingo tc200s, should I or should I not? Is there a better alternative?



I have the TC200's but not the X6's, I like the TC200's, but I think I'm going to like the X6's more  



Sam L said:


> there's really only a handful that meet that requirement. Most buds have lower mid bloat. These come to mind
> 
> Nicehck me80 (discontinued)
> yincrow rw-9 (rumored to be recently discontinued?)
> ...



X6's on the way!

Btw, do you have the MX500's? I'm surprised how good they are.


----------



## jogawag

waynes world said:


> ...
> 
> Btw, do you have the MX500's? I'm surprised how good they are.


Please tell me the link of the surprised MX500. Also, if there is an MMCX version, please tell me the link.


----------



## Sam L

waynes world said:


> I have the TC200's but not the X6's, I like the TC200's, but I think I'm going to like the X6's more
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have the fengru version of the mx500. Excellent buds. That should be on my previous list as well.


----------



## Sam L

macunaima said:


> i currently have a smabat st-10 as my "flagship " and i love the imaging and sound signature of them(the fit is kinda bad thought), but i found the soundstage to be very underwhelming and i would like to step up my game, i love a neutral sound so i dont mind if the em5's have a very neutral sound signature for what ive heard other people saying


The em5's are far from a neutral sound signature. They are a warm bud, with strong but controlled bass and decent clarity in the upper mids and treble (though not very bright). The most neutral bud I've heard so far is the bk2. I could see, possibly, how monk plus fans would consider the em5 neutral but anyone coming from the iem world would not agree. Sound stage is good. I haven't listened to mine in several weeks but don't recall thinking they were exceptional in sound stage, but that is in part due to a good handful of buds I've compensated with some of my target curves that have expansive sound stage. However, the em5 has outstanding imaging and particularly fantastic bass texture.


----------



## Sam L (Dec 3, 2020)

macunaima said:


> i currently have a smabat st-10 as my "flagship " and i love the imaging and sound signature of them(the fit is kinda bad thought), but i found the soundstage to be very underwhelming and i would like to step up my game, i love a neutral sound so i dont mind if the em5's have a very neutral sound signature for what ive heard other people saying


one more thing, if you're on windows or an android 9+ phone, these files will increase your sound stage noticeably.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbud-target-curve-tests.944006/page-9#post-15986035

**edit**
or not. I just realized you have the older s-10 version? I don't have any measurements of that bud to generate autoeq files.


----------



## macunaima

Sam L said:


> you can never ask too many questions here. keep the questions coming!
> 
> I have a toneking tp16 inbound. When I get it i'll compare it with the Nameless.


i reallly like how smooth the nameless is


Sam L said:


> one more thing, if you're on windows or an android 9+ phone, these files will increase your sound stage noticeably.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbud-target-curve-tests.944006/page-9#post-15986035
> 
> ...


Yes i have the older st-10 but anyway im trying this one to see if i get any improvements or not


----------



## Sam L

macunaima said:


> i reallly like how smooth the nameless is
> 
> Yes i have the older st-10 but anyway im trying this one to see if i get any improvements or not


ah, the Nameless eq really, really well. Use this and you might find your appetite satified (for now). One of my favorite compensated buds.


----------



## macunaima

Sam L said:


> ah, the Nameless eq really, really well. Use this and you might find your appetite satified (for now). One of my favorite compensated buds.


Thanks ill test it out later, how did you manageg to get to the target curve on your earbuds? Do you have measure equipment or something?


----------



## Sam L

macunaima said:


> Thanks ill test it out later, how did you manageg to get to the target curve on your earbuds? Do you have measure equipment or something?


I measure my buds then run autoeq to compile a variety of eq files that are normalized to test curves that I've manually plotted based off of user input and experimentation.

*edit**
will you be running wavelet or peace/apo?


----------



## macunaima

macunaima said:


> Thanks ill test i





Sam L said:


> I measure my buds then run autoeq to compile a variety of eq files that are normalized to test curves that I've manually plotted based off of user input and experimentation.
> 
> *edit**
> will you be running wavelet or peace/apo?


Im running wavelet


----------



## Sam L (Dec 3, 2020)

macunaima said:


> Im running wavelet


oh, you're in for a surprise with the nameless then. after you load the wavelet file, click on the graph and set the eq strength to 50% to start.

*edit*
I encourage you to share your observations in the test curve thread since I'm pondering what changes I will introduce in version 1.6. Thanks!


----------



## macunaima

Sam L said:


> oh, you're in for a surprise with the nameless then. after you load the wavelet file, click on the graph and set the eq strength to 50% to start.
> 
> *edit*
> I encourage you to share your observations in the test curve thread since I'm pondering what changes I will introduce in version 1.6. Thanks!


Yes i will


----------



## Sam L (Dec 3, 2020)

*Target Curve v1.5 for the Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0+ Commemorative Edition*

These buds were my first pair, mainly because they are readily available in my area on Amazon Prime ($13.99 including pretty fast delivery). I've mentioned this before. I'm generating two options for each version release -- a "bass" version and a "neutral" version. Interestingly, the differences are subtle but noticeable upon critical listening.

Funny thing about getting to this point after 9 months of experimenting, there's one simple conclusion: the FR for buds from 20hz to 1k should fundamentally be flat, with some variation in a bass shelf depending on personal taste.

LOL    I should of just started with headphone targets in the beginning... stupid me...

Even with a flat 20-1khz FR, there's still plenty of bass.




**edit**
I'm going to hold off on uploading files because I have no way to track if anyone is actually using them and hence gather feedback. I'll put up a web page soon so I can track download counts and consolidate information so new users don't have to hunt all over the tread to get caught up on what these target curves are all about.

private message me if you want the files, I'm happy to send them over to you as long as you give feedback (can be simple as, "I hate it." "It's ok" "This is awesome!.").


----------



## Sam L

How do these compare to the commemorative edition?

Nice to see Amazon back with same day delivery!


----------



## furyossa (Dec 3, 2020)

Sam L said:


> How do these compare to the commemorative edition?
> 
> Nice to see Amazon back with same day delivery!


The hardware specification is the same between OG and C-Edition
The only difference is in the cable. Commemorative edition has the same cable as FAAEAL Rosemary


----------



## furyossa (Dec 3, 2020)

Speaking of FAAEAL, are you planning to make a compensation file for FAAEAL Datura Pro.
It’s a shame they don’t sound as good as they look. The driver has potential but is not very well tuned.





DUNU Luna Info : diafragm material comparation


----------



## Sam L (Dec 3, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Speaking of FAAEAL, are you planning to make a compensation file for FAAEAL Datura Pro.
> It’s a shame they don’t sound as good as they look. The driver has potential but is not very well tuned.


Do you have a link for where you saw that graph?

I can plot it and build a file for you.

**edit**
I'm curious about how the datura pro sounds compensated as well. I've had my eye on it for some time.


----------



## cenizas

Sam L said:


> Do you have a link for where you saw that graph?
> 
> I can plot it and build a file for you.


I sent you the measurement previously haha, check ya inbox


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> Do you have a link for where you saw that graph?
> 
> I can plot it and build a file for you.
> 
> ...


The graph is from the official page but I don't know is accurate
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000234719620.html


cenizas said:


> I sent you the measurement previously haha, check ya inbox


Thanks


----------



## cqtek

Sam L said:


> Today's mobile listening setup.
> 
> I will be spending a good deal of time in the morning with my headphones, H6 1st gen, then move on to the Faaeals. I compensate the headphones to oratory1990 curve and use them as my main reference when I'm tweaking my earbud target curves.


Hello, which amplifier is that small one? I can't quite see its name. Where can I get it?
Thank you.


----------



## Sam L

cqtek said:


> Hello, which amplifier is that small one? I can't quite see its name. Where can I get it?
> Thank you.


Pico amp w/ dac option. It's an old product and the dac isn't hi res but it puts out good, clean power for such a small package. It's sold on headamp.com


----------



## Sam L (Dec 3, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Speaking of FAAEAL, are you planning to make a compensation file for FAAEAL Datura Pro.
> It’s a shame they don’t sound as good as they look. The driver has potential but is not very well tuned.
> 
> 
> ...


 graph from @cenizas of the Datura Pro



You might not hear much of a difference between these two files because that bass drop-off is pretty significant. As always, for the PEQ, starting off with hitting the compress button 2 or 3 times is recommended. In wavelet, 50% to 75% is typically a good range for the eq strength.


----------



## Sam L (Dec 3, 2020)

Definitely a good looking earbud, Datura Pro. And reasonably priced if the build quality is as good as it looks.



**edit**
@furyossa, I'm holding my breath wondering how it sounds corrected? The correction looks pretty extreme. I'm wondering if you have to hit compress 3 or 4 times. 

@cenizas, when you get a chance, can you try it out on wavelet? Thx!


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> @cenizas graph of the Datura Pro
> 
> 
> 
> You might not hear much of a difference between these two files because that bass drop-off is pretty significant. As always, for the PEQ, starting off with hitting the compress button 2 or 3 times is recommended. In wavelet, 50% to 75% is typically a good range for the eq strength.


You can add these files to your thread. I will post there my impressions. For now ... wait I will tell you later. I need to go through the list of songs first.   
After that, you can decide whether to order this model or not


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> Definitely a good looking earbud, Datura Pro. And reasonably priced if the build quality is as good as it looks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Build quality is superb, only sound need fix


----------



## Sam L

Wavelet users... 

Looks like the Faaeal Datura Pro responds to eq exceptionally well. @furyossa wrote up some observations here.

Good enough for me. I went ahead and put my order in!


----------



## baskingshark (Dec 3, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Wavelet users...
> 
> Looks like the Faaeal Datura Pro responds to eq exceptionally well. @furyossa wrote up some observations here.
> 
> Good enough for me. I went ahead and put my order in!



The FAAEAL Datura Pro is a midcentric set, good for vocal lovers. Just that it has a treble slight roll off and massive bass roll off, so not that all rounder for some genres that are bass heavy.
FWIW, midcentric tunings are very niche, so it's kind of a love or hate it tuning. But indeed, it does take to EQ quite well, and build is good (though cable is not detachable). At original launch pricing of $30ish - 40ish USD, I wouldn't recommend it. But at the usual $20 during sales, it is a soft recommendation if you know you want a midcentric tuning, or you have EQ to play with.


----------



## theresanarc

My DIY PK2 16 ohms from Chitty's store have developed a rattle on one side after an year and a half of owning them while rotating with other earbuds. The Yuin PK2 shells I had strangely also developed this exact rattle in one year after an ear though not to the same extent.

Are these basically done or would changing the wire fix this?


----------



## furyossa (Dec 3, 2020)

theresanarc said:


> My DIY PK2 16 ohms from Chitty's store have developed a rattle on one side after an year and a half of owning them while rotating with other earbuds. The Yuin PK2 shells I had strangely also developed this exact rattle in one year after an ear though not to the same extent.
> 
> Are these basically done or would changing the wire fix this?


In addition to the rattle, there is also the problem that one of the drivers loses sound.
Try first with cable. Unsolder cable from the driver, cut the tops, and solder again. Sometimes a plug can cause the problem. The worst-case scenario would be a broken voice coil wire. In that case, count on buying new drivers


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> The FAAEAL Datura Pro is a midcentric set, good for vocal lovers. Just that it has a treble slight roll off and massive bass roll off, so not that all rounder for some genres that are bass heavy.
> FWIW, midcentric tunings are very niche, so it's kind of a love or hate it tuning. But indeed, it does take to EQ quite well, and build is good (though cable is not detachable). At original launch pricing of $30ish - 40ish USD, I wouldn't recommend it. But at the usual $20 during sales, it is a soft recommendation if you know you want a midcentric tuning, or you have EQ to play with.


It is no longer such a sound signature after the @Sam_L compensation file. If you have the opportunity, try this EQ correction, you will be surprised how good can sound this aluminum-coated driver.


----------



## Sam L

furyossa said:


> It is no longer such a sound signature after the @Sam_L compensation file. If you have the opportunity, try this EQ correction, you will be surprised how good can sound this aluminum-coated driver.


I'm excited to try it out. Shipping estimate is by Jan.9.  

and so the waiting game begins.


----------



## Sam L

baskingshark said:


> The FAAEAL Datura Pro is a midcentric set, good for vocal lovers. Just that it has a treble slight roll off and massive bass roll off, so not that all rounder for some genres that are bass heavy.
> FWIW, midcentric tunings are very niche, so it's kind of a love or hate it tuning. But indeed, it does take to EQ quite well, and build is good (though cable is not detachable). At original launch pricing of $30ish - 40ish USD, I wouldn't recommend it. But at the usual $20 during sales, it is a soft recommendation if you know you want a midcentric tuning, or you have EQ to play with.


Thanks for the observations, matches what I would guess it to sound like from the graph. I'll be running them exclusively on wavelet compensation.


----------



## lackOfInspiration

Ok just found some actual earbuds measurments made with a 5128. My measurment of the ty 32 was not that bad actually  It also shows the Lotus in all it's glory. It's soooooooooo cool! Seriously I have no idea where this comes from, I'm a bit supicious but my hearth wants to believe. They seem to collaborate with the guy from soundexpert (who produces very neet articles but is a little obstinate) so I guess it's real. Anyone who knew about this database?


----------



## furyossa

lackOfInspiration said:


> Ok just found some actual earbuds measurments made with a 5128. My measurment of the ty 32 was not that bad actually  It also shows the Lotus in all it's glory. It's soooooooooo cool! Seriously I have no idea where this comes from, I'm a bit supicious but my hearth wants to believe. They seem to collaborate with the guy from soundexpert (who produces very neet articles but is a little obstinate) so I guess it's real. Anyone who knew about this database?


Nice find.


----------



## ce3eoa

DBaldock9 said:


> When I checked my set with an Ohmmeter, they measured about 297-Ohms - which was a bit surprising, since they're advertised as 150-Ohms.


I received my Smabat ST10s Gold last week and  measured the resistance of both drivers, one is 159.6 Ohms and the other 159.8 Ohms, which is closed to  the advertised 150 Ohms


----------



## DBaldock9

ce3eoa said:


> I received my Smabat ST10s Gold last week and  measured the resistance of both drivers, one is 159.6 Ohms and the other 159.8 Ohms, which is closed to  the advertised 150 Ohms



I'm going to check again, with both of my Ohmmeters.


----------



## Sam L

DBaldock9 said:


> I'm going to check again, with both of my Ohmmeters.


or maybe you got a unique mistake in your buds!


----------



## RikudouGoku

Well I have spent some time with the RW-9 now and honestly I think the X6 is better.

The bass on the RW-9 has more quantity but quality cant keep up and it is bleeding a bit into the mids. Although it does extend a bit lower and also has rumbles a bit more than the X6, but the X6 is faster, tighter and more textured.

Mids are slightly recessed so it gives it a v-shaped sound profile but quality is very similar.

Treble quality is also very similar but has a bit more quantity on the RW-9 However the tonality is still pretty similar because of that bass quantity that balances out the extra treble quantity. 

Technicalities are similar on timbre, soundstage, imaging. But details is a bit better on the RW-9 (probably "fake details" with the added treble quantity) while instrument separation is a bit better on the X6 due to the cleaner bass.


Which one do I rec? Both of them are on the same level to me so the only differences are the sound profile (X6 = bass boosted neutral, RW-9 = V-shaped) and the cable that feels/looks better on the RW-9 (although it is quite thin). So based on my own preferences leaning towards the X6 AND because it is half the price (also not discontinued) I rec the X6 over the RW-9. 


RW-9: rank A+


----------



## jao29

RikudouGoku said:


> Well I have spent some time with the RW-9 now and honestly I think the X6 is better.
> 
> The bass on the RW-9 has more quantity but quality cant keep up and it is bleeding a bit into the mids. Although it does extend a bit lower and also has rumbles a bit more than the X6, but the X6 is faster, tighter and more textured.
> 
> ...


Guess Im going to probably get the X6 now.
Lol.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jao29 said:


> Guess Im going to probably get the X6 now.
> Lol.


yup, its epic. 

(although for any yincrow fans out there, it might be wise to get the RW-9 sooner than later since it is discontinued.)


----------



## usergate

ce3eoa said:


> I received my Smabat ST10s Gold last week and  measured the resistance of both drivers, one is 159.6 Ohms and the other 159.8 Ohms, which is closed to  the advertised 150 Ohms


I ordered 2 pairs. One pair has an *active* resistance of 156 ohms, the other 152 (approximately the same for both drivers, apparently, there is a spread and they select similar drivers).


----------



## iemhater

Can someone recommend a flat frequency response earbud with good imaging below $30? I was using the Sennheiser mx365 for many years until it broke. Decided to get a ve monk plus since it is raved about everywhere but found the bass too boomy and seems to ruin the imaging. I tried using Peace equalizer to reduce the bass, but the imaging seems noticeably bad to me.


----------



## furyossa

iemhater said:


> Can someone recommend a flat frequency response earbud with good imaging below $30? I was using the Sennheiser mx365 for many years until it broke. Decided to get a ve monk plus since it is raved about everywhere but found the bass too boomy and seems to ruin the imaging. I tried using Peace equalizer to reduce the bass, but the imaging seems noticeably bad to me.


This model has nice imaging https://penonaudio.com/shoonth-esep-01bl.html?search=ShoonTH.
Also, read this review. And if you want to change the cable or play with tuning, maybe this mod can help


----------



## iemhater

furyossa said:


> This model has nice imaging https://penonaudio.com/shoonth-esep-01bl.html?search=ShoonTH.
> Also, read this review. And if you want to change the cable or play with tuning, maybe this mod can help



Thanks for the recommendation. Is the modding required to get the good imaging?

I don't know if I'm expecting too much for the budget but it seems like the reviews are saying the imaging on this earbud is "quite good/enough" but not outstanding. Is there really no better alternative?


----------



## furyossa

iemhater said:


> Thanks for the recommendation. Is the modding required to get the good imaging?
> 
> I don't know if I'm expecting too much for the budget but it seems like the reviews are saying the imaging on this earbud is "quite good/enough" but not outstanding. Is there really no better alternative?


Nope. Imaging doesn't depend on the cable here. I replace the cable because I don't like the look & feel
I changed the stock tuning because I prefer a more spacious sound.
If you saw expensive models from the ShoonTH lineup you probably notice a much better quality cable and high impedance driver.
Characteristic of this "budget" model:
- fast bass response
- mid-centric
- intimate sound with "closed-back headphone" feel
- wide soundstage
- imaging is slightly better than regular buds in this price range


----------



## mochill

I'll be getting a rare earbud soon , airman 180ohm vent aka king of bass


----------



## furyossa

mochill said:


> I'll be getting a rare earbud soon , airman 180ohm vent aka king of bass


Can you post some links?


----------



## baskingshark

mochill said:


> I'll be getting a rare earbud soon , airman 180ohm vent aka king of bass



Yeah Link?

Dang I see "king of bass" and I'm very interested. Now need to think of an excuse to give my wife when ordering another earbud.

BTW have u tried the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold? If any earbud I've heard deserves the title "king of bass", I've to give it to the Black Gold. Superb subbass extension and quantity when amped adequately.


----------



## mochill

Was diy earbuds back in the day. Guy doesn't make it anymore


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> Yeah Link?
> 
> Dang I see "king of bass" and I'm very interested. Now need to think of an excuse to give my wife when ordering another earbud.
> 
> BTW have u tried the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold? If any earbud I've heard deserves the title "king of bass", I've to give it to the Black Gold. Superb subbass extension and quantity when amped adequately.


Bass king in what? Quantity or quality or both? I can tell that the DIY 64ohm full titanium driver received a crown for quantity. "thunder bass"
For quality (bass and sub-bass), yes that would be SMABAT ST10S Black Gold, also HE150Pro is a step behind


----------



## furyossa

mochill said:


> Was diy earbuds back in the day. Guy doesn't make it anymore


Share your opinion and post a few pictures when they arrive


----------



## mochill




----------



## Vannak

furyossa said:


> Nope. Imaging doesn't depend on the cable here. I replace the cable because I don't like the look & feel
> I changed the stock tuning because I prefer a more spacious sound.
> If you saw expensive models from the ShoonTH lineup you probably notice a much better quality cable and high impedance driver.
> Characteristic of this "budget" model:
> ...


Sorry but I can't find your mod 🙏


----------



## furyossa

Vannak said:


> Sorry but I can't find your mod 🙏


You can look in my "inventory" I use >>> #1
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15923743


----------



## DBaldock9

DBaldock9 said:


> I'm going to check again, with both of my Ohmmeters.



My older Ohmmeter (purchased in 1985) measures my Smabat ST-10s as 301-Ω & 302-Ω.
My new Ohmmeter (purchased in 2019) measures my Smatbat ST-10s as 298-Ω & 299-Ω.

Am I going to have to order another set of Smabat ST-10s, to find out how the 150-Ω model sounds?


----------



## assassin10000

DBaldock9 said:


> My older Ohmmeter (purchased in 1985) measures my Smabat ST-10s as 301-Ω & 302-Ω.
> My new Ohmmeter (purchased in 2019) measures my Smatbat ST-10s as 298-Ω & 299-Ω.
> 
> Am I going to have to order another set of Smabat ST-10s, to find out how the 150-Ω model sounds?



Hmmm.  Maybe you got the secret drivers. ST-10SD


----------



## iemhater

furyossa said:


> - intimate sound with "closed-back headphone" feel
> - wide soundstage
> - imaging is slightly better than regular buds in this price range



Doesn't intimate sound mean a small soundstage?

Also would you say the imaging quality goes up as price does linearly?


----------



## Sam L

iemhater said:


> Doesn't intimate sound mean a small soundstage?
> 
> Also would you say the imaging quality goes up as price does linearly?


In general, yes, intimate typically means a smaller soundstage in width. But in some cases depth and imaging can still be pronounced within a narrow soundstage.

No, imaging quality does not go up as price goes up. It's pretty unpredictable because sound stage is heavily influenced by tuning and tuning is all over the place with buds (regardless of price). This is one of the reasons I spend so much time measuring, experimenting and uploading compensation files.

My recent work involved correcting the datura pro. It appears the sound is significantly improved but I suspect the staging will also be vastly improved as well. I have one incoming, so I have yet to test it out. 

You can read about it here.


----------



## EndAllBeAll

Hi! Can you recommend a good set of earbuds for me?

I listen to mostly classical type of music, usually I prioritize mid-range, prefer a sound signature that is warm but not repressed mids or highs, detailed and big sounding(it can be intimate or have large soundstage, I like both for different reasons). I'm sensitive to any harsh treble or sibilance, but love the airiness and liveliness of good quality treble. I hate boomy base, but love detailed and smooth bass.

My current favorites are tin p1 and rha ma750(hated these before burn-in).

I'm looking for something to complement my previous sets. I have good enough portable source, so they can have high impedance and low sensitivity as long as they sound good. I'm considering VE Zen 2.0 at the moment.

My budget would be under 500usd. Value for money is more important but I can stretch my budget if they sound really good to me. If I can’t afford them, maybe I would wait longer.


----------



## Sam L

EndAllBeAll said:


> Hi! Can you recommend a good set of earbuds for me?
> 
> I listen to mostly classical type of music, usually I prioritize mid-range, prefer a sound signature that is warm but not repressed mids or highs, detailed and big sounding(it can be intimate or have large soundstage, I like both for different reasons). I'm sensitive to any harsh treble or sibilance, but love the airiness and liveliness of good quality treble. I hate boomy base, but love detailed and smooth bass.
> 
> ...


Paging @baskingshark


----------



## Vannak

furyossa said:


> You can look in my "inventory" I use >>> #1
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15923743


Thanks! 
So useful sir👍


----------



## jogawag

EndAllBeAll said:


> Hi! Can you recommend a good set of earbuds for me?
> 
> I listen to mostly classical type of music, usually I prioritize mid-range, prefer a sound signature that is warm but not repressed mids or highs, detailed and big sounding(it can be intimate or have large soundstage, I like both for different reasons). I'm sensitive to any harsh treble or sibilance, but love the airiness and liveliness of good quality treble. I hate boomy base, but love detailed and smooth bass.
> 
> ...


The VE Zen 2.0 you are considering has a bass-heavy sound.
I recommend to you the Moondrop Chaconne with its crystal clear mids and highs.
Here is a review of the Moondrop Chaconne on head-fi. 
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/moondrop-chaconne.24110/


----------



## baskingshark

Sam L said:


> Paging @baskingshark



Haha i actually recommended the OP to post here to ask for recommendations (from the general headfi rec thread. I don't have any earbuds in mind that can fit the OP's criteria but perhaps you and the other esteemed members can give good recs, like jogawag has.


----------



## rprodrigues (Dec 6, 2020)

DBaldock9 said:


> My older Ohmmeter (purchased in 1985) measures my Smabat ST-10s as 301-Ω & 302-Ω.
> My new Ohmmeter (purchased in 2019) measures my Smatbat ST-10s as 298-Ω & 299-Ω.
> 
> Am I going to have to order another set of Smabat ST-10s, to find out how the 150-Ω model sounds?




You really got a special version... 

My m2 pro with black/gold st-10s drivers have 156 Ω for both sides.


----------



## furyossa (Dec 6, 2020)

iemhater said:


> Doesn't intimate sound mean a small soundstage?
> Also would you say the imaging quality goes up as price does linearly?





Sam L said:


> In general, yes, intimate typically means a smaller soundstage in width. But in some cases depth and imaging can still be pronounced within a narrow soundstage.
> 
> No, imaging quality does not go up as price goes up. It's pretty unpredictable because sound stage is heavily influenced by tuning and tuning is all over the place with buds (regardless of price). This is one of the reasons I spend so much time measuring, experimenting and uploading compensation files.
> 
> ...


@Sam L  very good explanation
In the case of ShoonTH ESEP-01BL, they use a special way to tune it. One side of the rear port is sealed with hot glue and that way you hear less external noise,
which further increases the effect of the closure.
I look at it this way. Imaging is a special characteristic of the driver and I don't know if it can be improved directly at all but you can influence other things to increase the overall sound quality. Imagine you have a photo. The resolution of this photo represents imaging. You can edit this photo and eliminate blur, image noise, artifacts, etc which will only visually increase the image quality but not its resolution. To get a better image resolution you need to take another photo with other (high) settings. For that, you don't need to buy another expensive camera (only in case you don’t want something "ultra-high")  
So it depends, if you want the overall better sound quality, then the price increases with the SQ, but if we look separately only at the imaging, then not really.


----------



## Sam L

baskingshark said:


> Haha i actually recommended the OP to post here to ask for recommendations (from the general headfi rec thread. I don't have any earbuds in mind that can fit the OP's criteria but perhaps you and the other esteemed members can give good recs, like jogawag has.


Oh. I was thinking about the general intro - price breakdowns and sizes, etc.


----------



## Sam L

Sam L said:


> *Virtual Earbud Meet-up!*
> 
> Hey All, last week I asked if anyone would be interested in a virtual meet-up to discuss, share various topics regarding our passion for earbuds.
> 
> ...


Bump. 

Anyone else interested? It's looking like Sat (12/12) is the best option.


----------



## Sam L

EndAllBeAll said:


> Hi! Can you recommend a good set of earbuds for me?
> 
> I listen to mostly classical type of music, usually I prioritize mid-range, prefer a sound signature that is warm but not repressed mids or highs, detailed and big sounding(it can be intimate or have large soundstage, I like both for different reasons). I'm sensitive to any harsh treble or sibilance, but love the airiness and liveliness of good quality treble. I hate boomy base, but love detailed and smooth bass.
> 
> ...


I mainly listen to classical music. The description of what you're looking for fits the fiio em5 perfectly. Though the marketing hype suggests awesome bass, it doesn't have more than my smabat s-10s (silver) however the texture in the low end is unparalleled. The em5 were the first (and so far only) bud that presents the double bass solo in beethoven's 9th accurately and with distinction from the cello section.


----------



## macunaima

hey do you guys know a good portable amp for earbuds? Im craving for some high impendance ones, so that would be a must, i currently have a fiio btr3k but the low output makes higher impedance headphones not loud enough,I want something at max 100$


----------



## cowtter (Dec 6, 2020)

I've been using the apple v2 earbuds for years, as for action sports stuff being able to hear what's going on around me is super important. I had a stockpile of the 3.5mm ones from friends phones but am down to my last one. Usually I kill the cable where it meets the jack and one ear will start to go in and out.

I just ordered these as I figured they would be a good start

https://www.amazon.com/Venture-Elec...ds=ve+monk+earbuds+mic&qid=1607286454&sr=8-16


After seeing all the discussion here, and the low prices I really want to try some more out as well. I'd like to stick around the <20 mark at first but I feel like with everything else I am going to end up with some 300 dollar earbuds in a few years anyways.

Most of the ones discussed here seemed discontinued, so these were just some random ones I threw in my cart from brands that I remembered as I had been browsing has anyone tried them?
https://imgur.com/a/HqC7yqK

If you have any recommendations, guides, or good technical youtubers to explain what it is I should be looking for that would be great.

Ideally I need at least one button for play/pause, and to be as durable as possible. As far as the sound, I do have a bit of a hard time with high treble but usually I can mess with the EQ on my v30.


Thanks!


----------



## rkw

Sam L said:


> I mainly listen to classical music. The description of what you're looking for fits the fiio em5 perfectly. Though the marketing hype suggests awesome bass, it doesn't have more than my smabat s-10s (silver) however the texture in the low end is unparalleled. The em5 were the first (and so far only) bud that presents the double bass solo in beethoven's 9th accurately and with distinction from the cello section.


I've had a FiiO EM5 for a few weeks and my listening is 90% classical music. The EM5 has the best bass I've heard from an earbud. However, I'm finding the treble (notably in violins, both solo and ensemble) to be too bright and harsh. I'm hoping burning in will help but I probably have 100 hours on it already.


----------



## Sam L

cowtter said:


> I've been using the apple v2 earbuds for years, as for action sports stuff being able to hear what's going on around me is super important. I had a stockpile of the 3.5mm ones from friends phones but am down to my last one. Usually I kill the cable where it meets the jack and one ear will start to go in and out.
> 
> I just ordered these as I figured they would be a good start
> 
> ...


Noooo. Stay far away from that monk plus. Sounds way worse than the apple buds. Cant type out a thoughtful response at the moment, but simple answer is get the Yincrow x6


----------



## lackOfInspiration

furyossa said:


> @Sam L  very good explanation
> In the case of ShoonTH ESEP-01BL, they use a special way to tune it. One side of the rear port is sealed with hot glue and that way you hear less external noise,
> which further increases the effect of the closure.
> I look at it this way. Imaging is a special characteristic of the driver and I don't know if it can be improved directly at all but you can influence other things to increase the overall sound quality. Imagine you have a photo. The resolution of this photo represents imaging. You can edit this photo and eliminate blur, image noise, artifacts, etc which will only visually increase the image quality but not its resolution. To get a better image resolution you need to take another photo with other (high) settings. For that, you don't need to buy another camera (only in case you don’t want something "ultra-high")
> So it depends, if you want the overall better sound quality, then the price increases with the SQ, but if we look separately only at the imaging, then not really.


I couldn't resist and write down some funny (I think?) thoughts in reaction to your post.

Indeed trying to apply optical reasoning is very very wise as light and sound can be described by the same formalism (and ultimatly are juste waves, light duality put apart).But if you want to compare a driver to an optical system, I think it has to be a set of lenses for exemple. You have to keep digital consideration like resolution (number of pixels) out of the equation because the sonic equivalent is sampling frequency/number of bits which we don't considere here. You should do pure analog vs pure analog. *The equivalent of transducers are lenses. The equivalent of a speaker/headphone is a projector and the equivalent of a microphone is a camera (both not digital, with films and stuff)*. And yes the notion of resolution exists for lenses but it's very different from the digital resolution and is in fact limited by diffraction (the upper boundary is defined by a simple equation). It's unrelated to the quality of the lenses.
Note the following fun fact: The equivalent of a LCD screen is a sound systeme with one speaker for each frequency (the step between the different frequencies corresponds to definition). Anyone ready to buid this up with thousands of BAs?
Also Now that I think of it CRTs might be a very good equivalent for speakers/headphone.... In fact stereo audio would be doing VR with CRTs  This thought really made my day.

So let's considere our projector. If it has bad lenses, you will observe geometry errors blur and speckle noise on the image (the lenses are not well shaped and not well polished). This is the exact equivalent of distortion and noise in audio. *The amount of detail is always the same no matter the system but it's rendered more or less distorted.* So to judge the quality of the projector we would like to see if the lense deviates every ray of light the right way (according to Snell laws) no matter the angle the ray comes from. Believe it or not the angle paramter is called spatial frequency and is  the exact equivalent of frequency in audio. (Optic is magis because you can check how the projector behaves super easely (adding other lenses asumed to be perfect lol) and actually see a figure with your eyes that shows how the systeme behaves for every single spatial frequency. This is indeed a spectre, and is no different from frequency reponse in audio.)
Now keep in mind the details on the image printed on the film difract the light widely (they spread the light a lot because there are small obstacles) so the rays of light containing the information for details reach the outer part of the lens: they are coming from high angles and therfore correspondes to high spatial frequencies! *In the end to see if the projector is "detailed" we just have to look at the spectre and see if the high frequencies are correctly handled or not. *In practice this in not so easy to do, but in theory this is it. If you have the power to change the spectre (with filters) you can correct its behavior to make it better (exactly what you said with photo editing). If the filters are perfect and you can make theme inifnitely complex you can fully correct the lenses.
So you're right about everything except when you say that there is a quality that is inherent to the driver/lenses and is out of reach/hidden.

Regarding soudstage I think the problem is not how faithfully the signal is reproduced. It's more about what the signal should be, or/and how much of our ear distinsctive features is kept during the travel of the waves to our eardurm.

I omitted a lot of things (phase; coherence...) and I doubt I explained that well... I just wanted to show that making analogy to understand sound (you could do it with electricity as well) is both fun and revealing. The links are deeper than most people probably think, so I really honor the fact that you did borrow this path to explain your point.


----------



## furyossa

lackOfInspiration said:


> I couldn't resist and write down some funny (I think?) thoughts in reaction to your post.
> 
> Indeed trying to apply optical reasoning is very very wise as light and sound can be described by the same formalism (and ultimatly are juste waves, light duality put apart).But if you want to compare a driver to an optical system, I think it has to be a set of lenses for exemple. You have to keep digital consideration like resolution (number of pixels) out of the equation because the sonic equivalent is sampling frequency/number of bits which we don't considere here. You should do pure analog vs pure analog. *The equivalent of transducers are lenses. The equivalent of a speaker/headphone is a projector and the equivalent of a microphone is a camera (both not digital, with films and stuff)*. And yes the notion of resolution exists for lenses but it's very different from the digital resolution and is in fact limited by diffraction (the upper boundary is defined by a simple equation). It's unrelated to the quality of the lenses.
> Note the following fun fact: The equivalent of a LCD screen is a sound systeme with one speaker for each frequency (the step between the different frequencies corresponds to definition). Anyone ready to buid this up with thousands of BAs?
> ...


Wow. Of course, you can write down some funny thoughts but this is too much information.  
You just took the time to explain everything in detail. Professional level. I really respect that.


----------



## cowtter

Sam L said:


> Noooo. Stay far away from that monk plus. Sounds way worse than the apple buds. Cant type out a thoughtful response at the moment, but simple answer is get the Yincrow x6


Why those specifically?


----------



## EndAllBeAll

How does FiiO EM5 compare to Moondrop Chaconne?


----------



## lackOfInspiration (Dec 6, 2020)

cowtter said:


> I've been using the apple v2 earbuds for years, as for action sports stuff being able to hear what's going on around me is super important. I had a stockpile of the 3.5mm ones from friends phones but am down to my last one. Usually I kill the cable where it meets the jack and one ear will start to go in and out.
> 
> I just ordered these as I figured they would be a good start
> 
> ...


As shown here the Apple earpods surely are very good; especially wih foams (if you can do with the lack of bass) and you will have a hard time finding another bud that is so well tuned (there are a few though).




Now they are overpriced end fragile and most earbuds discussed here offer better bass. Here are some alternatives: (the graphs here must be compared with care as they are done wih different pieces of (very high end) equipment, but both include full pinnea simulation. Also note that the target is different, one is diffuse field, the other is Harman (essentially a tilted down diffuse filed + bass boost)).



You can see that most lack clarity. Some like it and you may will (I don't). Vidos + EQ offer great sound quality (with great bass response) and the wildest price/SQ ration in the game (sub 1$!!!). Personnaly I'm a big fan of the TY Hi-Z 32 (7$), their sound signature is very well suited to outdoor use cases (I mainly use theme on the go myself). They are my Porta Pro substitute.
You can see The Monk + seem to sound good here compare to others but the +5db @200hz combines with the nasty null @6khz make it sound muddy yet bass lite. Having small ears hence good seal with MX500 shells I hear the 200hz bump 2 or 3db higher and this really is awfull.
Keep in mind that earbuds are extremely sensible to placement and ear anatomy, and that you can gain/lose clarity/bass changing the foam you use. (The tighter the seal the more bass you get.). A lot of people here give valuable impressions that reflect this variability.


----------



## cowtter

lackOfInspiration said:


> As shown here the Apple earpods surely are very good; especially wih foams (if you can do with the lack of bass) and you will have a hard time finding another bud that is so well tuned (there are a few though).



Wow thanks that's a ton of information. So basically don't expect those monks to blow the apple ones out of the water. TY Hi-Z 32 look nice but unless I'm looking in the wrong places I don't see one with a play/pause.


So are the monks just old? A ton of the information I was seeing was praising them as some of the best budget buds. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wGTZnKX1aP29c1bzs5JWgqSUlPzZqV9p_cw79VfRBpQ/pub I was looking at this one and they seemed to place ok. 

Already ordered them so will just have to see how they work for me and if not keep looking.


----------



## Sam L

lackOfInspiration said:


> As shown here the Apple earpods surely are very good; especially wih foams (if you can do with the lack of bass) and you will have a hard time finding another bud that is so well tuned (there are a few though).
> 
> Now they are overpriced end fragile and most earbuds discussed here offer better bass. Here are some alternatives: (the graphs here must be compared with care as they are done wih different pieces of (very high end) equipment, but both include full pinnea simulation. Also note that the target is different, one is diffuse field, the other is Harman (essentially a tilted down diffuse filed + bass boost)).
> 
> ...


what software is that? REW dark mode?


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> what software is that? REW dark mode?


You mean this https://www.hypethesonics.com/howto/


----------



## Sam L

furyossa said:


> You mean this https://www.hypethesonics.com/howto/


Interesting. Is the site owner on headfi?


----------



## lackOfInspiration (Dec 6, 2020)

cowtter said:


> Wow thanks that's a ton of information. So basically don't expect those monks to blow the apple ones out of the water. TY Hi-Z 32 look nice but unless I'm looking in the wrong places I don't see one with a play/pause.
> 
> 
> So are the monks just old? A ton of the information I was seeing was praising them as some of the best budget buds. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wGTZnKX1aP29c1bzs5JWgqSUlPzZqV9p_cw79VfRBpQ/pub I was looking at this one and they seemed to place ok.
> ...


Indeed no mic/remote fore the Ty :/ I forgot to include this criterion, sorry.

Well I don't think it's about being old. They were juste over-hyped, and also the former Monks were better so the name might have come into play. It's still great as a point of reference because they are ubiquitous. Moreover you should trust your hear, earbuds are the hardest devices to measure. I Think spending time comparing Apple buds and the monk + will teach you a lot. See if what you hear correlates with measurments, identify what part of the spectrum is critical to you... And in the end it is possible that you prefere the Monk +. But I think they are far from being a universal recomendation even if it can sound good to some ears.

So with mic and remote, you could give a try to the MS16. With a lose seal and at lower volumes they can give this very pleasent out of the head feeling. They don't lack clarity for sure, but are not as tonally accurate as the apple, and won't offer much more bass. I like them though and I guess most people would. They are crazy comfortable as well. Outdoor with noises from the street and all, voices stick out nicely but hard to hear the low frequencies.



Sam L said:


> Interesting. Is the site owner on headfi?


Ah I'd like to know! As I said previously this database is crazy but seems to be out of nowhere.... They have a contact page and seem to be very open to discussion.


----------



## jogawag (Dec 6, 2020)

EndAllBeAll said:


> How does FiiO EM5 compare to Moondrop Chaconne?


I don't have a Fiio EM5, but I found the following review:
The Fiio EM5 has a thick sound in the mid and low range, with a reasonably spacious and dense sound, but the treble range is a bit lacking.
If you are a fan of the Moondrop CHACONNE, you may find the sound a bit lacking in clarity and vividness.
The Fiio EM5's mid-to-low range texture is one of the best earbuds available, and I would recommend it to anyone looking for a laid-back, expansive sounding earbuds that doesn't find the Moondrop CHACONNE's treble too exciting.


----------



## jogawag (Dec 6, 2020)

RikudouGoku said:


> Well I have spent some time with the RW-9 now and honestly I think the X6 is better.
> 
> The bass on the RW-9 has more quantity but quality cant keep up and it is bleeding a bit into the mids. Although it does extend a bit lower and also has rumbles a bit more than the X6, but the X6 is faster, tighter and more textured.
> 
> ...


Certainly the RW-9 has too much volume and it is bleeding a bit into the mids.
So I sealed the six vents on each side behind the RW-9's MX500 shell. (sealing the top slit vent on the back is overkill)  The resulted in moderately tighter bass and a best sound atmospherically close to the RW-2000.
If you have a RW-9, give it a try!


----------



## cappuchino

jogawag said:


> Certainly the RW-9 has too much volume and it is bleeding a bit into the mids.
> So I sealed the six vents on each side behind the RW-9's MX500 shell. (sealing the top slit vent on the back is overkill)  The resulted in moderately tighter bass and a best sound atmospherically close to the RW-2000.
> If you have a RW-9, give it a try!


How did you seal the vents? I've got a K's Nameless and I'm planning to do easy mods to change the sound. Is there a link for those mods?


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> Certainly the RW-9 has too much volume and it is bleeding a bit into the mids.
> So I sealed the six vents on each side behind the RW-9's MX500 shell. (sealing the top slit vent on the back is overkill)  The resulted in moderately tighter bass and a best sound atmospherically close to the RW-2000.
> If you have a RW-9, give it a try!


Post your impression and mod photos in the DIY Earbuds thread if it's not a problem


----------



## jogawag

sub30 said:


> How did you seal the vents? I've got a K's Nameless and I'm planning to do easy mods to change the sound. Is there a link for those mods?





furyossa said:


> Post your impression and mod photos in the DIY Earbuds thread if it's not a problem


I'm sorry for this too simple mod, but I just put two 8mm diameter circular masking paper tape paches on both sides of the shell...
It looks bad, but I don't care about it because it is hidden by foam.


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> The Fiio EM5 has a thick sound in the mid and low range, with a reasonably spacious and dense sound, but the treble range is a bit lacking.


This description reminds me of a DIY 600ohm beryllium-coated driver.
Ok EM5 and CHACONNE are the first two contestants for "the best of the best" competition.
I would love to hear some experience with the lady Rose Maria
And what about the bad girls from K's Bell lineup: Bell-Ti, Bell-Blue, and Bell-We. Has anyone "dated" these girls?
Joke aside for me when it comes to industrial design, this is the most beautiful model so far.


----------



## jogawag

furyossa said:


> And what about the bad girls from K's Bell lineup: Bell-Ti, Bell-Blue, and Bell-We. Has anyone "dated" these girls?


I found the following review. Please display them on Chorome browser.: 
http://headphonemetal.ldblog.jp/archives/52427612.html
http://headphonemetal.ldblog.jp/archives/52427635.html
http://headphonemetal.ldblog.jp/archives/52389687.html


----------



## Sam L

macunaima said:


> hey do you guys know a good portable amp for earbuds? Im craving for some high impendance ones, so that would be a must, i currently have a fiio btr3k but the low output makes higher impedance headphones not loud enough,I want something at max 100$


I had similar requirements, but was willing to stretch to $150. I almost went for an ifi zen dac but in the end decided to save my money and resurrect my oppo ha2 with a new battery. Turns out the oneplus 1 battery fits perfectly. The other portable amp I use is the headamp pico amp/dac. But that one is a bit out of your price range, $499 new, around $300 used.


----------



## Sam L

lackOfInspiration said:


> As shown here the Apple earpods surely are very good; especially wih foams (if you can do with the lack of bass) and you will have a hard time finding another bud that is so well tuned (there are a few though).
> 
> Now they are overpriced end fragile and most earbuds discussed here offer better bass. Here are some alternatives: (the graphs here must be compared with care as they are done wih different pieces of (very high end) equipment, but both include full pinnea simulation. Also note that the target is different, one is diffuse field, the other is Harman (essentially a tilted down diffuse filed + bass boost)).
> 
> ...


I want to get more info on how those measurements are taken (what mic, soundcard, etc.) Looking through that database, I'm seeing quite a few that match with mine but others that are quite a bit off.

The monk plus, for example, do not sound at all like that graph. It sounds like my FR.


----------



## Sam L

cowtter said:


> I've been using the apple v2 earbuds for years, as for action sports stuff being able to hear what's going on around me is super important. I had a stockpile of the 3.5mm ones from friends phones but am down to my last one. Usually I kill the cable where it meets the jack and one ear will start to go in and out.
> 
> I just ordered these as I figured they would be a good start
> 
> ...


just re-read your post. If you have a v30, then you can run wavelet app and run any number of my files in this thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbud-target-curve-tests.944006/page-12

I'd recommend the datura pro. I'm still waiting for mine but @furyossa has tested the compensation file on it already and gives it a strong recommendation. I'm guessing, compensated, its 90% end game sound quality.


----------



## baskingshark

baskingshark said:


> Has anybody tried this earbud? Purported to have beryllium in the driver and quite cheap.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001589119116.html
> 
> ...



Buyer beware! I realized I got a fake tracking number for this order when I bought it on 11/11, it was sent to somewhere in Russia (found it so on track17.net) and claimed to be delivered to me in Singapore. I just opened a dispute on aliexpress about fake tracking.

A pity as the reviews for it seem to be positive, I dunno if they had logistics problems due to 11/11, but sending a fake tracking number is not cool. =(


----------



## jogawag

macunaima said:


> hey do you guys know a good portable amp for earbuds? Im craving for some high impendance ones, so that would be a must, i currently have a fiio btr3k but the low output makes higher impedance headphones not loud enough,I want something at max 100$


How about SHANLING UP4?


----------



## Sam L

lackOfInspiration said:


> As shown here the Apple earpods surely are very good; especially wih foams (if you can do with the lack of bass) and you will have a hard time finding another bud that is so well tuned (there are a few though).
> 
> Now they are overpriced end fragile and most earbuds discussed here offer better bass. Here are some alternatives: (the graphs here must be compared with care as they are done wih different pieces of (very high end) equipment, but both include full pinnea simulation. Also note that the target is different, one is diffuse field, the other is Harman (essentially a tilted down diffuse filed + bass boost)).
> 
> ...


Interesting measurements in that dark, aggregated screen shot. There are coupler resonance points at 5k and 8.75khz that are not typical of a iec711 coupler. I'm wondering what this rig is comprised of. I'll reach out and let you guys know what I find.


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> I had similar requirements, but was willing to stretch to $150. I almost went for an ifi zen dac but in the end decided to save my money and resurrect my oppo ha2 with a new battery. Turns out the oneplus 1 battery fits perfectly. The other portable amp I use is the headamp pico amp/dac. But that one is a bit out of your price range, $499 new, around $300 used.


for these models, a little stretching really pays off. They may have a New Year's discount
https://e1dashz.wixsite.com/index
https://ifi-audio.com/products/hip-dac/
https://www.fiio.com/q3
BTW...iFi Zen DAC is a very affordable device and is a good choice for desktop DAC/AMP


----------



## Sam L

baskingshark said:


> Buyer beware! I realized I got a fake tracking number for this order when I bought it on 11/11, it was sent to somewhere in Russia (found it so on track17.net) and claimed to be delivered to me in Singapore. I just opened a dispute on aliexpress about fake tracking.
> 
> A pity as the reviews for it seem to be positive, I dunno if they had logistics problems due to 11/11, but sending a fake tracking number is not cool. =(


wow, that's a bummer. that's frustrating.


----------



## Sam L

furyossa said:


> for these models, a little stretching really pays off. They may have a New Year's discount
> https://e1dashz.wixsite.com/index
> https://ifi-audio.com/products/hip-dac/
> https://www.fiio.com/q3
> BTW...iFi Zen DAC is a very affordable device and is a good choice for desktop DAC/AMP


ooooohhh nice! I didn't know that e1da powerdac will have a 3.5mm version. That will be a good one.


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> How about SHANLING UP4?


It's a good choice but we don't know @macunaima output power requirement and the need for balanced output


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> ooooohhh nice! I didn't know that e1da powerdac will have a 3.5mm version. That will be a good one.


Yup. I think they have 3 different devices and a great mobile app HPTOY.
Still, I will probably go with iFi


----------



## Sam L

Yuin Pk2 with version 1.5 correction. Finally fixed the sound on this thing. Great bud for classical music corrected.


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> Yuin Pk2 with version 1.5 correction. Finally fixed the sound on this thing. Great bud for classical music corrected.


I have DIY PK2 driver, the question is whether it is the same driver at all. Anyway, it costs nothing to try the PEQ file


----------



## Sam L

furyossa said:


> I have DIY PK2 driver, the question is whether it is the same driver at all. Anyway, it costs nothing to try the PEQ file


Very true. Haven't tried the PEQ file yet but I'm guessing preamp = - 7db. Hit compress twice as a start.


----------



## Sam L

Sam L said:


> Yuin Pk2 with version 1.5 correction. Finally fixed the sound on this thing. Great bud for classical music corrected.


Pretty dramatic re-work of the mids.


----------



## dissociativity

I'm honestly feel incredibly lucky to be getting a Masya, won't be able to get it from my american friend til February when I'm back home from interstate work however.
If I fall in love with it I may just save up for the Maria, the technical aspects it offers (namely the dual drivers with one being a GIGANTIC 20mm driver) should in theory be unrivaled.
I also wanna get my hands on the toneking ty2 in feb, I'm very bored of earbuds being same-y, the 1more e1008 is the only thing exciting and different I own, Qian69, Nicehck B40, Moondrop Nameless, 120ohm berry DIY, m2 pro with black gold driver, all are fine and all, but the 1more is the only thing with an addictive sound with something truly special about it.

I want to love the black gold driver m2 pro, but the tuning is too bright as it's clearly designed around the st10s's resonance chamber, though it's clearly higher end than anything I own but the e1008.

IEMs are having more fun with innovation and here we are with boring single DD earbuds.


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> How about SHANLING UP4?


This one is very powerful for SE output https://www.xduoo.net/product/link2/


----------



## Sam L

furyossa said:


> You mean this https://www.hypethesonics.com/howto/


Ok, I played around with the graphing database feature on this site and it is exceptionally well done. It's based on the open source package, cringraph, that crinacle uses on his site, but has some extended features. If the site owner is on head-fi and eventually sees this post, kudo's to you! Exciting to see tools like this emerging.


----------



## lackOfInspiration (Dec 7, 2020)

Sam L said:


> I want to get more info on how those measurements are taken (what mic, soundcard, etc.) Looking through that database, I'm seeing quite a few that match with mine but others that are quite a bit off.
> 
> The monk plus, for example, do not sound at all like that graph. It sounds like my FR.


The measurments were made with a 5128. I believe they had the chance to try it out for a period of time because they were interested in buying it (like Amirm from ASR could). If the database keep extending it would mean they have one for real and that would be crazy. The rest of their database is simply made with a gras RA00045 (but there's only IEMs so it's good).

Concerning the Monk I tend to find find Oratory's measurment and the one made with the 5128 (both show comparable results) to be a bit too good compared to what I hear. I'll tend to agree more with your measurment because of the dirty midbass bump being put in good light, but I still hear the 2k & 5k resonance like what can be seen on the other graphs (and then the 6-10k zone terribly recessed).

EDIT: Note their warning in the "about this database" page: "N.B. This database is tentative and contains certain measurements (particularly for earbuds) that we don’t yet entirely understand or consider fully reliable."


----------



## Sam L

Today's remote setup. Been awhile since I've taken these out of the house...


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> Today's remote setup. Been awhile since I've taken these out of the house...


Using buds outside? Arent they going to leak (disturb others) and with a poor isolation so you want to increase volume, thus risking hearing damage?


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Using buds outside? Arent they going to leak (disturb others) and with a poor isolation so you want to increase volume, thus risking hearing damage?


Well, buds outside of the house and inside a pretty quiet co-working space.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> Well, buds outside of the house and inside a pretty quiet co-working space.


Are you "sharing" your music with the other people there then?


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Using buds outside? Arent they going to leak (disturb others) and with a poor isolation so you want to increase volume, thus risking hearing damage?


This is a good recipe for tinnitus, I followed it and I got it. How harmless it sounds, believe me, it's not pleasant at all.
Earbuds or any open-back headphones, no matter how much you like to use these, just forget to use these outdoors


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> This is a good recipe for tinnitus, I followed it and I got it. How harmless it sounds, believe me, it's not pleasant at all.
> Earbuds or any open-back headphones, no matter how much you like to use these, just forget to use these outdoors


yeah, I tried earbuds outside once and felt the need to raise the volume. Thankfully I managed to hold back on doing that. outside = iems, no questions about that.


----------



## dissociativity

I find earbuds outside are only for quieter listening when I'm riding a bike, podcast type things, nothing you'll wanna pump up.

Nicehck b40 have the perfect signature for even terribly recorded voices on YouTube and podcasts, no spikes, no painful "sss" sounds.


----------



## furyossa

dissociativity said:


> I find earbuds outside are only for quieter listening when I'm riding a bike, podcast type things, nothing you'll wanna pump up.
> 
> Nicehck b40 have the perfect signature for even terribly recorded voices on YouTube and podcasts, no spikes, no painful "sss" sounds.


I agree. Also, you have a better awareness of the environment that surrounds you. Yes, there are some advantages


----------



## iemhater

furyossa said:


> In the case of ShoonTH ESEP-01BL, they use a special way to tune it. One side of the rear port is sealed with hot glue and that way you hear less external noise,
> which further increases the effect of the closure.



I'm kind of worried about one of the ports being sealed. I would rather have a larger soundstage/imaging than better isolation since I use earbuds in a quiet environment most of the time.

Would you happen to know how the ShoonTH compares to something like the MrZ MusicMaker Tomahawk? The reason I ask is because it seems to have much more reviews with most people saying the soundstage and imaging on it are very good, but it is from 2016 so I don't know if newer buds would have technological improvements over them and I can't find any reviews comparing recent buds to them, or compared to the ShoonTH.


----------



## furyossa

iemhater said:


> I'm kind of worried about one of the ports being sealed. I would rather have a larger soundstage/imaging than better isolation since I use earbuds in a quiet environment most of the time.
> 
> Would you happen to know how the ShoonTH compares to something like the MrZ MusicMaker Tomahawk? The reason I ask is because it seems to have much more reviews with most people saying the soundstage and imaging on it are very good, but it is from 2016 so I don't know if newer buds would have technological improvements over them and I can't find any reviews comparing recent buds to them, or compared to the ShoonTH.



That's why I removed glue. Yesterday @robar discover that this driver looks exactly the same as ShoonTH ESEP-01BL. This is a better offer for 5 pairs.
With the cable (similarly braided as FAAEAL brown cable) and the shell (DP100), U can build your similar model for half the price
ShoonTH is also an old model. You can tell by the driver itself. It uses 17 holes (old-school style) on the back.

Sorry but I don't have MrZ MusicMaker Tomahawk to compare.


----------



## iemhater

furyossa said:


> That's why I removed glue. Yesterday @robar discover that this driver looks exactly the same as ShoonTH ESEP-01BL. This is a better offer for 5 pairs.
> With the cable (similarly braided as FAAEAL brown cable) and the shell (DP100), U can build your similar model for half the price
> ShoonTH is also an old model. You can tell by the driver itself. It uses 17 holes (old-school style) on the back.
> 
> Sorry but I don't have MrZ MusicMaker Tomahawk to compare.



Oh ok thanks but I don't have the tools to be making mods to my earbuds and I would be afraid of breaking something that takes over a month to ship.


----------



## furyossa

Are these new models from FAAEAL?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32702152967.html (this is not Snow-lotus 64ohm). The new driver has better specs.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001812694871.html I haven't seen this "Poppy" either


----------



## furyossa

iemhater said:


> Oh ok thanks but I don't have the tools to be making mods to my earbuds and I would be afraid of breaking something that takes over a month to ship.


Fair enough  Don't worry, these parts are not as delicate as they seem


----------



## Sam L (Dec 7, 2020)

hmm...
Can't find my last post inviting people to a virtual meet. I'm guess that's not allowed in this thread?

nevermind, found the older post.


----------



## Sam L (Dec 7, 2020)

Last call to give input on a virtual gathering time!

https://xoyondo.com/dp/oPjVdpUr5iXtilP


----------



## iemhater

furyossa said:


> Fair enough  Don't worry, these parts are not as delicate as they seem



The idea of DIY earbuds is interesting to me but I don't like the idea of buying a bunch of tools for it and the shipping times are too long for me. Would you happen to know if newer earbuds have technical improvements over older ones? Or is it not really like cellphones that improve every year?


----------



## jogawag (Dec 8, 2020)

iemhater said:


> Can someone recommend a flat frequency response earbud with good imaging below $30? I was using the Sennheiser mx365 for many years until it broke. Decided to get a ve monk plus since it is raved about everywhere but found the bass too boomy and seems to ruin the imaging. I tried using Peace equalizer to reduce the bass, but the imaging seems noticeably bad to me.


I recommend to you  Edifier H185 or Qian69 or NICEHCK B40.
They sound clear and not boomy.


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> That's why I removed glue. Yesterday @robar discover that this driver looks exactly the same as ShoonTH ESEP-01BL. This is a better offer for 5 pairs.
> With the cable (similarly braided as FAAEAL brown cable) and the shell (DP100), U can build your similar model for half the price
> ShoonTH is also an old model. You can tell by the driver itself. It uses 17 holes (old-school style) on the back.
> 
> Sorry but I don't have MrZ MusicMaker Tomahawk to compare.


I'm not sure that those listings have the exact same model, somebody needs to try both out  My guess is that both worse than the N50 red rim, which has similar form factor and price. And ofc 19-21 is clearly better than that


----------



## furyossa (Dec 8, 2020)

iemhater said:


> The idea of DIY earbuds is interesting to me but I don't like the idea of buying a bunch of tools for it and the shipping times are too long for me. Would you happen to know if newer earbuds have technical improvements over older ones? Or is it not really like cellphones that improve every year?


Yes and no. Every year new models are released that use more advanced technology, with earbuds it is mostly a new diaphragm material.
Last year, the DLC (diamond-like carbon) driver was presented, which gained great popularity with some IEMs and Earbuds. This year, the first DD that uses pure beryllium was introduced, unfortunately not with earbuds.  All these new technologies are expensive and drastically raise the price of the product.
In most cases, a higher price does not justify quality control, especially for products coming from China.
These drivers have great potential but that doesn’t mean every model that uses them has good sound.
I think that in the past, much more attention and time was devoted to tuning the sound than today
If you follow this forum, you have probably noticed that older models are mentioned a lot.
People love them, not because of fancy materials but because of the great "nostalgic" sound 
BTW... I don’t like older cell phones as much as older buds


----------



## axhng

talking about older models.... finally got my hands on these...


----------



## povidlo

axhng said:


> talking about older models.... finally got my hands on these...


Looking forward to your impressions!


----------



## furyossa

axhng said:


> talking about older models.... finally got my hands on these...


And? How comfortable they are? Sound signature?
If I'm not mistaken, the original design was taken from Sony?
These two has a similar "hook" design
https://www.amazon.com/Philips-Headphones-SHS3300BK-drivers-open-back/dp/B01564J0LO
https://www.amazon.de/-/en/THOMSON-HED161-N-Sport-Clip-On-Headphones/dp/B000VS3NCS


----------



## axhng

furyossa said:


> And? How comfortable they are? Sound signature?
> If I'm not mistaken, the original design was taken from Sony?
> These two has a similar "hook" design
> https://www.amazon.com/Philips-Headphones-SHS3300BK-drivers-open-back/dp/B01564J0LO
> https://www.amazon.de/-/en/THOMSON-HED161-N-Sport-Clip-On-Headphones/dp/B000VS3NCS



oh man, i just remember I actually had that exact philips earbuds many many years ago. don't remember anything of it though, just that i used it while jogging. lol.

for the A.Air, haven't spend too much time with them, but initial impressions are that it sounds fairly neutral. soundstage is probably the highlight here with good details, but feels like that airiness does make it sound a little lean overall. Treble is decently extended too, so instruments like violins, cymbals, all sounds natural to me. Though upper mids is a little subdued for my personal taste and music preference. For example, the nicehck ME80 has more upper mids than the A.Air, and it's at a level that is just nice for me. So maybe anyone who finds the ME80 a bit too shouty might enjoy this a bit more, but i think for now i'm still leaning towards the ME80 a bit more. Both are really enjoyable in their own way though. I was expecting it to be competent, but maybe not the most value for money now (since it is over a decade old now), and that's pretty much the case. the non-removable cable probably doesn't help too. But have to give it to Creative for their packaging though. great presentation, nice carrying case, and all. Also kudos to them for still making these for sale. I was expecting to get really old "clearance" stocks, but my unit's "QA Passed" date on the bottom of the box is 12/2019, which is more recent than I thought they would be. lol.






the earhooks are a nightmare for me though especially because i'm wearing glass already. So instead of keeping the earbuds in place, it's pushing it out. I was only able to get a good fit after removing the hooks, and after that it's great. the left/right markings are on the hooks though. the shorter stem makes it a little harder to handle while putting them on, but once in place they feel weightless. since they're lighter than the ME80. That's about it for now. will update if my impression changes as I use them more.


----------



## furyossa

axhng said:


> oh man, i just remember I actually had that exact philips earbuds many many years ago. don't remember anything of it though, just that i used it while jogging. lol.
> 
> for the A.Air, haven't spend too much time with them, but initial impressions are that it sounds fairly neutral. soundstage is probably the highlight here with good details, but feels like that airiness does make it sound a little lean overall. Treble is decently extended too, so instruments like violins, cymbals, all sounds natural to me. Though upper mids is a little subdued for my personal taste and music preference. For example, the nicehck ME80 has more upper mids than the A.Air, and it's at a level that is just nice for me. So maybe anyone who finds the ME80 a bit too shouty might enjoy this a bit more, but i think for now i'm still leaning towards the ME80 a bit more. Both are really enjoyable in their own way though. I was expecting it to be competent, but maybe not the most value for money now (since it is over a decade old now), and that's pretty much the case. the non-removable cable probably doesn't help too. But have to give it to Creative for their packaging though. great presentation, nice carrying case, and all. Also kudos to them for still making these for sale. I was expecting to get really old "clearance" stocks, but my unit's "QA Passed" date on the bottom of the box is 12/2019, which is more recent than I thought they would be. lol.
> 
> ...


Thanks man. This is a very nice review and presentation. Are you sponsored perhaps by Creative?


----------



## axhng

furyossa said:


> Thanks man. This is a very nice review and presentation. Are you sponsored perhaps by Creative?



thanks! but no, not sponsored. haha. I just like taking photos of stuff? 
or maybe it's just from being used to reviewing other stuff like phones. lol.


----------



## furyossa

Very cool. We all know that a good presentation sells the product.  
For background, you are using "EVA" foam in different colors or ...? 
Yamaha buds (+ mmcx) look awesome. They remind me of Kinera TYR, except that Kinera uses a micro DD 6mm. I guess Yamaha has a BA.


----------



## axhng

furyossa said:


> Very cool. We all know that a good presentation sells the product.
> For background, you are using "EVA" foam in different colors or ...?
> Yamaha buds (+ mmcx) look awesome. They remind me of Kinera TYR, except that Kinera uses a micro DD 6mm. I guess Yamaha has a BA.



 the background is just from a pack of A3 sized construction paper in different colours. The yamaha eph-200 are using 6mm DD as well actually, but yeah, the design was a big part of why i bought them.


----------



## FantaStik

Wonderfull. It's really great collection!


----------



## furyossa

axhng said:


> the background is just from a pack of A3 sized construction paper in different colours. The yamaha eph-200 are using 6mm DD as well actually, but yeah, the design was a big part of why i bought them.


You said 6mm micro DD. Interesting. Do you know how the eph-200 compares to Kinera TYR?
I love the small DD buds. My current favorite is the Meze Audio lineup.

It's also very challenging to tune them. Last year I bought MSUR C210 for my DIY project. It uses an 8mm beryllium coated driver, the quality of the workmanship is excellent except for the cable. This model is the worst tuned earbuds I've ever tried. More challenge for me
The main problem is channel imbalance and the bass bleeds across all frequencies (bass through the roof). This is the power of beryllium when it is not adjusted properly
I replaced the stock cable and start "burn-in" for a few days. This mod will fix the channel imbalance but the bass is still too strong. The vent on the backside is too open.
I added some wool and foam material inside the shell to reduce the inner cavity and seal a bit the back vent. This softens the bass and also pushes the mids slightly forward,
but for Bery, this is not enough. The next step was to drill a hole in front of the driver (near the nozzle) to release the pressure. 
There I made a stupid mistake and accidentally punctured the driver with a drill  
No matter how it ended, I learned a lot from this project so the next one went well. 
These small drivers are stubborn and much more challenging than classic MX500 and PK drivers.


----------



## MelodyMood

*Hello Friends. Hope all are doing well. I am facing some issue and I am sure you all will be encountering the same. As you know that now Mobile Companies started following Apple blindly and not providing 3.5mm Jack, it has become almost impossible for me to buy new phone as I use phone (and a paid Music Player Software) to listen to the songs. But the phone needs upgrade now. One option is to buy 1-2 years old model like S10 or S10+ and see if any good phone comes with headphone jack in next 3-4 years. I have few earbuds and I don't want to use connector and don't want to just leave them too. I have Monk+, TP-16, FiiO EM3, Fengru etc. and many more earbuds. But none will be compatible with latest phones. I don't want to use Bluetooth even if Samsung or these companies made me Brand Ambassador and pay me Millions of $$$s to use them their phone with Bluetooth. And 1-2 phones which are having 3.5mm Jack, wither they are very basic with poor specs or too heavy to carry (much more than 170 grams).*
*
Does anyone knows if these earbuds are available with C Type Connector also. Or similar earbuds which has good bass and with Mic are available in C Type? Any help will be highly appreciated. If none is available, then I will buy S10 or S10+. 
*
*I am also wondering if we can order and built our own High end Phones with the specs these companies provide. I know that the cost of the phone for these companies are not more than $200-300 so even if we build one set only, it will not cost more than $1000. But not sure how and where to order the parts required for that? Thanks.*


----------



## MelodyMood (Dec 8, 2020)

MelodyMood said:


> *Hello Friends. Hope all are doing well. I am facing some issue and I am sure you all will be encountering the same. As you know that now Mobile Companies started following Apple blindly and not providing 3.5mm Jack, it has become almost impossible for me to buy new phone as I use phone (and a paid Music Player Software) to listen to the songs. But the phone needs upgrade now. One option is to buy 1-2 years old model like S10 or S10+ and see if any good phone comes with headphone jack in next 3-4 years. I have few earbuds and I don't want to use connector and don't want to just leave them too. I have Monk+, TP-16, FiiO EM3, Fengru etc. and many more earbuds. But none will be compatible with latest phones. I don't want to use Bluetooth even if Samsung or these companies made me Brand Ambassador and pay me Millions of $$$s to use them their phone with Bluetooth. And 1-2 phones which are having 3.5mm Jack, wither they are very basic with poor specs or too heavy to carry (much more than 170 grams).*
> 
> *Does anyone knows if these earbuds are available with C Type Connector also. Or similar earbuds which has good bass and with Mic are available in C Type? Any help will be highly appreciated. If none is available, then I will buy S10 or S10+. *
> 
> *I am also wondering if we can order and built our own High end Phones with the specs these companies provide. I know that the cost of the phone for these companies are not more than $200-300 so even if we build one set only, it will not cost more than $1000. But not sure how and where to order the parts required for that? Thanks.*



Another query is if USB C Type earbuds will sound poor than 3.5mm? I think so. But not too sure about it. And there are few Earphones with C Type connector but they all are in-ear ones and no earbuds at all.


----------



## RikudouGoku

MelodyMood said:


> *Hello Friends. Hope all are doing well. I am facing some issue and I am sure you all will be encountering the same. As you know that now Mobile Companies started following Apple blindly and not providing 3.5mm Jack, it has become almost impossible for me to buy new phone as I use phone (and a paid Music Player Software) to listen to the songs. But the phone needs upgrade now. One option is to buy 1-2 years old model like S10 or S10+ and see if any good phone comes with headphone jack in next 3-4 years. I have few earbuds and I don't want to use connector and don't want to just leave them too. I have Monk+, TP-16, FiiO EM3, Fengru etc. and many more earbuds. But none will be compatible with latest phones. I don't want to use Bluetooth even if Samsung or these companies made me Brand Ambassador and pay me Millions of $$$s to use them their phone with Bluetooth. And 1-2 phones which are having 3.5mm Jack, wither they are very basic with poor specs or too heavy to carry (much more than 170 grams).*
> 
> *Does anyone knows if these earbuds are available with C Type Connector also. Or similar earbuds which has good bass and with Mic are available in C Type? Any help will be highly appreciated. If none is available, then I will buy S10 or S10+. *
> 
> *I am also wondering if we can order and built our own High end Phones with the specs these companies provide. I know that the cost of the phone for these companies are not more than $200-300 so even if we build one set only, it will not cost more than $1000. But not sure how and where to order the parts required for that? Thanks.*


I suggest either going the Fiio BTR5/qudelx 5k route OR a simple dongle like the Sonata HD pro.

LG phones (V and G series) have the 3.5mm jack left and has a very good quad dac in them, so check them out. Otherwise I would go with the dongle/bluetooth-dac/amp route and just get a budget phone from redmi, honor, xiaomi, Oppo, realme, vivo or poco phones. 

(unless you can go with daps)


----------



## MelodyMood

RikudouGoku said:


> I suggest either going the Fiio BTR5/qudelx 5k route OR a simple dongle like the Sonata HD pro.
> 
> LG phones (V and G series) have the 3.5mm jack left and has a very good quad dac in them, so check them out. Otherwise I would go with the dongle/bluetooth-dac/amp route and just get a budget phone from redmi, honor, xiaomi, Oppo, realme, vivo or poco phones.
> 
> (unless you can go with daps)


Yes. LG Phones are still providing Headphone Jack. I am waiting for V70 which will be released in Jan I guess. V60 is good too but the issue is that they are making phones to heavy. They all are 210 grams. My current phone is 153 gram and S10 is 157 and S10+ is also around 170. Even Budget phones RedMi, Honor, Oppo, Vivo etc. not providing 3.5mm Jack. They are bunch of fools who are just following Apple without thinking and many fools are even buying these phones too. I really want some Consumer Court to fine them Billions of $$$s for not providing 3.5mm Jack, I wish if that can happen.


----------



## RikudouGoku

MelodyMood said:


> Yes. LG Phones are still providing Headphone Jack. I am waiting for V70 which will be released in Jan I guess. V60 is good too but the issue is that they are making phones to heavy. They all are 210 grams. My current phone is 153 gram and S10 is 157 and S10+ is also around 170. Even Budget phones RedMi, Honor, Oppo, Vivo etc. not providing 3.5mm Jack. They are bunch of fools who are just following Apple without thinking and many fools are even buying these phones too. I really want some Consumer Court to fine them Billions of $$$s for not providing 3.5mm Jack, I wish if that can happen.


It is a sad reality, but I think you need to get used to not having a headphone jack in phones. (and soon no adapter, iems at all lol.)

Get a dongle or a bluetooth dac/amp then. Sound wise those bluetooth dac/amps are very good.


----------



## MelodyMood

RikudouGoku said:


> It is a sad reality, but I think you need to get used to not having a headphone jack in phones. (and soon no adapter, iems at all lol.)
> 
> Get a dongle or a bluetooth dac/amp then. Sound wise those bluetooth dac/amps are very good.


Then I will be fine with buying older models. Cannot use in ear. In fact this group/forum with over 3300 pages are only about earbuds. Not in-ear.


----------



## RikudouGoku

MelodyMood said:


> Then I will be fine with buying older models. Cannot use in ear. In fact this group/forum with over 3300 pages are only about earbuds. Not in-ear.


You do know that you can use earbuds with dongles/bluetooth-dac/amps? I wasnt talking about iems.


----------



## furyossa

This new Samsung M51 is a good solution for dongles or devices without an internal battery.
https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_m51-10148.php  just look at the battery specification


----------



## MelodyMood

furyossa said:


> This new Samsung M51 is a good solution for dongles or devices without an internal battery.
> https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_m51-10148.php  just look at the battery specification


 New Samsung phones with 3.5mm Jack are too big and heavy and does not have good Processor as well. Very mediocre quality as well.


----------



## lackOfInspiration (Dec 8, 2020)

I recieved and soldered my Smabat M2 Pro kit yersterday. I got it for 30$, which I think is reasonable, and I like the idea of paying less for a kit (that said I could have done without the USB soldering iron, it's pure waste). I had the basic titanium coated driver and only one type of tuning mudule (type 0).

Here is a rough estimation of how they sound to me at around 60 Phons (I used frequency sweeps and 10 bands of noise covering 20-10k bandwidth. I quickly modelized with some parametric filters so it's pleasing to look at, and left the parametres values so you can see the frequencies the peaks are centered on. Please ignore the red curve. Be aware of the fact this is what I hear so you should at least substract the equal loudness contour to have an idea of the absolute response)





As you can see it sounds good... but shouty. And i'm usally not against a little 2-3k spiciness. I thought this was because of tuning module misplacement but it kept sounding the same on both chanels even after adjusting them. I think It could be addressed easely making some tweaks to the modules themselves. For the moment Eq does the job nicely.

A part from that it's the best pair of buds I had the chance to hear, and by far. The bass response is absolutely excellent and no need to force a strong seal to get there (which also means no compromises in regard to clarity). Sub 100hz boost, no bloat, no bass bleed whatsoever, that is close to ideal in my book (for an open device). Treble is excellent as well, no nasty high Q peak at 5k as we usually see. Everything is smooth and it's extended beyond 18khz (my hearing threshold).

The result of this nice frequency response is a clean, detailed and satisfactory sound. Soundstage is good, althought I don't find super relevent to comment on this aspect. It reproduces quasi-binaural recordings beatifully though, like a good headphone would. For those who are into binaural post treatment (like Haas effect and complexe reverbs applied to non binaural recordings), the 2.7khz peak is helpful as it prevents the recordings to sound overly dark and the voices to be shifted on on side of the image.

When it comes to the fit I have no complain for the moment. I like the cable and the look (although I would have like it a little more discreet).

In the end it's quite the opposite of what we commonly get. And it's clearly for the better (imo)!


----------



## macunaima

lackOfInspiration said:


> I recieved and soldered my Smabat M2 Pro kit yersterday. I got it for 30$, which I think is reasonable, and I like the idea of paying less for a kit (that said I could have done without the USB soldering iron, it's pure waste). I had the basic titanium coated driver and only one type of tuning mudule (type 0).
> 
> Here is a rough estimation of how they sound to me at around 60 Phons (I used frequency sweeps and 10 bands of noise covering 20-10k bandwidth. I quickly modelized with some parametric filters so it's pleasing to look at, and left the parametres values so you can see the frequencies the peaks are centered on. Please ignore the red curve. Be aware of the fact this is what I hear so you should at least substract the equal loudness contour to have an idea of the absolute response)
> 
> ...


these look shouty af, glad i didnt buy these based  on the graph of course


----------



## waynes world

MelodyMood said:


> *Hello Friends. Hope all are doing well. I am facing some issue and I am sure you all will be encountering the same. As you know that now Mobile Companies started following Apple blindly and not providing 3.5mm Jack, it has become almost impossible for me to buy new phone as I use phone (and a paid Music Player Software) to listen to the songs. But the phone needs upgrade now. One option is to buy 1-2 years old model like S10 or S10+ and see if any good phone comes with headphone jack in next 3-4 years. I have few earbuds and I don't want to use connector and don't want to just leave them too. I have Monk+, TP-16, FiiO EM3, Fengru etc. and many more earbuds. But none will be compatible with latest phones. I don't want to use Bluetooth even if Samsung or these companies made me Brand Ambassador and pay me Millions of $$$s to use them their phone with Bluetooth. And 1-2 phones which are having 3.5mm Jack, wither they are very basic with poor specs or too heavy to carry (much more than 170 grams).*
> 
> *Does anyone knows if these earbuds are available with C Type Connector also. Or similar earbuds which has good bass and with Mic are available in C Type? Any help will be highly appreciated. If none is available, then I will buy S10 or S10+. *
> 
> *I am also wondering if we can order and built our own High end Phones with the specs these companies provide. I know that the cost of the phone for these companies are not more than $200-300 so even if we build one set only, it will not cost more than $1000. But not sure how and where to order the parts required for that? Thanks.*



I understand your annoyance with the phone companies removing the headphone jacks, but why don't you want to use a bluetooth receiver? They have excellent sound quality these days. The BTR3K is very good (as is the Radsone ES100 that I had before), and apparently the BTR5 and Qudelx 5k are very very good.

I have an S8, so I have a headphone jack which I really like having as a backup in case my BTR3K's battery dies (which isn't too often because it's battery life is quite good). But I generally I listen to all of my wired earbuds using the BTR3K and my phone, so it's not like I couldn't live without the headphone jack now.


----------



## MelodyMood

waynes world said:


> I understand your annoyance with the phone companies removing the headphone jacks, but why don't you want to use a bluetooth receiver? They have excellent sound quality these days. The BTR3K is very good (as is the Radsone ES100 that I had before), and apparently the BTR5 and Qudelx 5k are very very good.
> 
> I have an S8, so I have a headphone jack which I really like having as a backup in case my BTR3K's battery dies (which isn't too often because it's battery life is quite good). But I generally I listen to all of my wired earbuds using the BTR3K and my phone, so it's not like I couldn't live without the headphone jack now.


Couple of reasons for not using Bluetooth. 


It is really harmful for health. 99.9% people may not be aware of that but the effects, especially on one's mental health, will be visible after longer period only. Like 15-20 years. 
I don't want to keep Bluetooth on and drain the batter in few hours.
Every day you need to charge your Bluetooth headphone also. One day you forget, then you are gone if you are not able to charge it for some reason. 
All Bluetooth earphones are in-ear only. I have not seen any earbud yet.
These are only few reasons. I can surely list few more easily.

And on top of that, there is not a single reason which is actually valid for not providing 3.5mm Jack. These companies are only making people fool and not anything else. Their logic of slimmer phone or water resistant phone are useless. I am yet to see  a phone which is 4mm in thickness. And there are number of phnes which has headphone jack and still water resistant.


----------



## MelodyMood

waynes world said:


> I understand your annoyance with the phone companies removing the headphone jacks, but why don't you want to use a bluetooth receiver? They have excellent sound quality these days. The BTR3K is very good (as is the Radsone ES100 that I had before), and apparently the BTR5 and Qudelx 5k are very very good.
> 
> I have an S8, so I have a headphone jack which I really like having as a backup in case my BTR3K's battery dies (which isn't too often because it's battery life is quite good). But I generally I listen to all of my wired earbuds using the BTR3K and my phone, so it's not like I couldn't live without the headphone jack now.


Also, I don't want to carry too many devices and connectors etc. I am usually on phone for one of more reason related to the work so need a phone which I can use to talk also. Even if I use DAC or any other device, these phones will still be useless for me as I cannot use them to talk. I prefer headset/earphones only to talk so my hands are free to do other works as well. I cannot keep talking only for ~2 hours in a day and do nothing at that time.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada (Dec 8, 2020)

Hey everyone, I haven't posted in this forum for years. Used to be really active back in the day. Thanks to another member here, my Shozy Cygnus earbuds' drivers were repaired and a new silver plated cable attached (they work like a charm ever since).

To date I use an Astellnkern AK70 DAP along with Shozy Cygnus (mainly for office use, or vocal-heavy music) and Rose Mojito earbuds (mainly for electronic music and jazz, where they really shine). Used to own Shozy Stardust as well, but really the Cygnus are better.

Have earbuds really progressed since then? Anything similar to the Rose Mojito in the earbud world? By that I mean an almost electrostatic headphones-like sound with insanely good treble, a sub-bass that really kicks, and extreme detailing and soundstage.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

axhng said:


> talking about older models.... finally got my hands on these...


Used to own these. Until they literally fell apart. Those ear things broke, and the drivers died. Very poor design in my opinion. As for the sound, not bad but not great. Somewhat detailed but low end was lacking.


----------



## dissociativity

Tayyab Pirzada said:


> Hey everyone, I haven't posted in this forum for years. Used to be really active back in the day. Thanks to another member here, my Shozy Cygnus earbuds' drivers were repaired and a new silver plated cable attached (they work like a charm ever since).
> 
> To date I use an Astellnkern AK70 DAP along with Shozy Cygnus (mainly for office use, or vocal-heavy music) and Rose Mojito earbuds (mainly for electronic music and jazz, where they really shine). Used to own Shozy Stardust as well, but really the Cygnus are better.
> 
> Have earbuds really progressed since then? Anything similar to the Rose Mojito in the earbud world? By that I mean an almost electrostatic headphones-like sound with insanely good treble, a sub-bass that really kicks, and extreme detailing and soundstage.


unfortunately I don't think anything has surpassed the dual driver Rose earbuds, their expensive flagship, the Rose Maria certainly will no doubt, but maybe try the 1more e1008? The piezio can really shine sometimes, it's addictive and I keep coming back to it.
Downside is no replacable cable for it unfortunately and I imagine the complex and very fine design would make any repairs hard if the cable did break, at least repairs that looks seamless and not janky.

I'm incredibly excited to recieve some Masyas in february, american friend is holding onto them for me til I'm back home then!

I'm going to buy the Toneking Ty2 too, since innovation in earbuds is severely lacking, but that's the only impressive innovation I've seen in earbuds beyond DIYing with the 14mm planar driver one can buy and making a planar earbud (tuning is probably a nightmare and having to solder it all up, find a shell, ect yourself is also an obstacle).


----------



## chinmie

MelodyMood said:


> Also, I don't want to carry too many devices and connectors etc. I am usually on phone for one of more reason related to the work so need a phone which I can use to talk also. Even if I use DAC or any other device, these phones will still be useless for me as I cannot use them to talk. I prefer headset/earphones only to talk so my hands are free to do other works as well. I cannot keep talking only for ~2 hours in a day and do nothing at that time.



most bluetooth dacs usually can still make phone calls as they would have built-in mic on them


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

What are the Rose Marias like? Anyone tried? And are there any triple dynamic driver buds out there yet? Or dare I say, planar magnetic?


----------



## furyossa

Tayyab Pirzada said:


> What are the Rose Marias like? Anyone tried? And are there any triple dynamic driver buds out there yet? Or dare I say, planar magnetic?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cli...uly-21-20-tws-earbud-mod.899252/post-14937629


----------



## rkw

Tayyab Pirzada said:


> Have earbuds really progressed since then? Anything similar to the Rose Mojito in the earbud world? By that I mean an almost electrostatic headphones-like sound with insanely good treble, a sub-bass that really kicks, and extreme detailing and soundstage.


For sound quality, Rose Mojito is still competitive today. FiiO EM5 has even better bass but its treble is a bit too aggressive for me. My problem with Rose Mojito is that it is large and not the best fit for my ears.


----------



## waynes world

MelodyMood said:


> Couple of reasons for not using Bluetooth.
> 
> 
> It is really harmful for health. 99.9% people may not be aware of that but the effects, especially on one's mental health, will be visible after longer period only. Like 15-20 years.
> ...



Thanks for your detailed response. Fyi, I was referring to bluetooth receivers, not bluetooth IEMs or headphones. I clip my btr3k onto my belt and have my regular wired earbuds plugged into it, so no bluetooth near my head.


----------



## rkw

waynes world said:


> I clip my btr3k onto my belt and have my regular wired earbuds plugged into it, so no bluetooth near my head.


Oh yes there is. Your receiver may not be close to your head, but the Bluetooth signal is there (30 ft range, or further for BT 5). Anyway I'm skeptical about health effects. Bluetooth operates around 2.4 GHz which WiFi also uses, and we are constantly showered with 2.4 GHz radio waves.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

rkw said:


> For sound quality, Rose Mojito is still competitive today. FiiO EM5 has even better bass but its treble is a bit too aggressive for me. My problem with Rose Mojito is that it is large and not the best fit for my ears.


Mojitos fit me perfectly actually. Some earbud housing don't fit me that well, or are uncomfortable...like the VE Zen 2.0 or Monks.


----------



## waynes world

MelodyMood said:


> Also, I don't want to carry too many devices and connectors etc. I am usually on phone for one of more reason related to the work so need a phone which I can use to talk also. Even if I use DAC or any other device, these phones will still be useless for me as I cannot use them to talk. I prefer headset/earphones only to talk so my hands are free to do other works as well. I cannot keep talking only for ~2 hours in a day and do nothing at that time.



I forgot to mention that one of the main reason I went with a bluetooth receiver was because I prefer not to have my phone tethered - I like my phone to be un-encumbered so that it does NOT get pulled off the counter and crash to the floor lol. And as Chinmie said, you can use the bluetooth receiver's mic for phone calls. Ultimately though it's a personal choice, so I wish you luck with your search.



rkw said:


> Oh yes there is. Your receiver may not be close to your head, but the Bluetooth signal is there (30 ft range, or further for BT 5). Anyway I'm skeptical about health effects. Bluetooth operates around 2.4 GHz which WiFi also uses, and we are constantly showered with 2.4 GHz radio waves.



Good points. Possibly it is safer though than having the receivers in the ears. But I'm either a hypocrite or also skeptical about the health effects, because I have other bluetooth iems and headphones that I occasionally do use to get blasted by the death rays


----------



## ShaneyMac

MelodyMood said:


> It is really harmful for health. 99.9% people may not be aware of that but the effects, especially on one's mental health, will be visible after longer period only. Like 15-20 years.



Do you have any proofs for this statement? Any links to scientific researches or medical articles? Or you have empirical evidence for this? 
Just asking...


----------



## digititus

MelodyMood said:


> Couple of reasons for not using Bluetooth.
> 
> 
> It is really harmful for health. 99.9% people may not be aware of that but the effects, especially on one's mental health, will be visible after longer period only. Like 15-20 years.


The 2 other radio transmitters in your phone are outputting much high power. Bluetooth is the least of your worries.


----------



## cowtter

Are there any alternatives for the EXpack from VE? I'm assuming that will work on any MX500 body, correct?


----------



## furyossa

EXpack? Do you mean ear foams from VE? 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32881765999.html


----------



## MelodyMood

chinmie said:


> most bluetooth dacs usually can still make phone calls as they would have built-in mic on them


Brother, I don't want to use Bluetooth headphone or any device. I am not comfortable in using them for health reasons. That's why I wanted to know if we have earbuds (not in-ear) with C Type connector also otherwise, is there any way that we can order each and  every required Mobile parts to built a High End phone (Like S20 or P40 Pro or Find X2 etc.) on our own. I am sure it can be done but have no clue where to find them?


----------



## cowtter

furyossa said:


> EXpack? Do you mean ear foams from VE?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32881765999.html



More so looking for this part of it. https://audioprimate.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/42172539170_5653f98e72_b.jpg?w=1024


----------



## Carrow

cowtter said:


> More so looking for this part of it. https://audioprimate.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/42172539170_5653f98e72_b.jpg?w=1024



EX pack available here


----------



## furyossa

cowtter said:


> More so looking for this part of it. https://audioprimate.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/42172539170_5653f98e72_b.jpg?w=1024


Here you can find some links
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15954125
Also this 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32695412016.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000039123456.html


----------



## chinmie

MelodyMood said:


> Brother, I don't want to use Bluetooth headphone or any device. I am not comfortable in using them for health reasons. That's why I wanted to know if we have earbuds (not in-ear) with C Type connector also otherwise, is there any way that we can order each and  every required Mobile parts to built a High End phone (Like S20 or P40 Pro or Find X2 etc.) on our own. I am sure it can be done but have no clue where to find them?



if that's the case, I'm afraid the options would be limited to this model of earbuds (as far as i know) 


Spoiler








if you want to use your wired earbuds, you can use the usb c dacs, but i don't think it allows phone calls from the earbuds.. 

custom build phones is a more complex and expensive idea, if that's possible at all..


----------



## furyossa (Dec 9, 2020)

chinmie said:


> if that's the case, I'm afraid the options would be limited to this model of earbuds (as far as i know)
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Chitty's Store has some USP-C models. Probably they can change driver or mic at your request
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32999497318.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32950707500.html


----------



## furyossa

axhng said:


> talking about older models.... finally got my hands on these...


Another one




https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32213408775.html


----------



## cowtter (Dec 9, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Chitty's Store has some USP-C models. Probably they can change driver or mic at your request
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32999497318.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32950707500.html




Saw these on that page and am somewhat intrigued, would I just need to pick up a cable for these? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000131213791.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.1e8b3c003fBmqg&mp=1

Is their stuff usually pretty solid?


----------



## Carrow (Dec 10, 2020)

Had a pair of Sony MDR-ED21LP buds ages back. Lost them. Found them. Lost them _again_. Only ever found pairs going on eBay for like €200 or whatever. Stumbled across a listing where they were being sold with a Discman, but the seller was open to just selling the buds and I just got them for €90 or so, let's goooooooo.


----------



## Abu144Hz

I just got my K's Nameless and I don't quite like it. Its too warm and it has little clarity, it kinda sounds veiled. Cymbals and clean electric guitar dont shine with it. The imaging and instrument seperation is also not that good. But it is still decent in some tracks. I payed just $2.50 for this tho. I know a friend that might enjoy it though, so im giving it to him. 
Now to wait for my two vidos and kbear stellar, and also replacement cables for my tp16 and b40


----------



## cappuchino

Abu144Hz said:


> I just got my K's Nameless and I don't quite like it. Its too warm and it has little clarity, it kinda sounds veiled. Cymbals and clean electric guitar dont shine with it. The imaging and instrument seperation is also not that good. But it is still decent in some tracks. I payed just $2.50 for this tho. I know a friend that might enjoy it though, so im giving it to him.
> Now to wait for my two vidos and kbear stellar, and also replacement cables for my tp16 and b40


Use @Sam L 's target. It's some kind of voodoo magic.


----------



## warbles

usergate said:


> I ordered 2 pairs. One pair has an *active* resistance of 156 ohms, the other 152 (approximately the same for both drivers, apparently, there is a spread and they select similar drivers).


Hellooo! Can i ask if you know whether an amp such as my Aune B1 will drive the Smabat ST10 Black & Gold optimally? I am a total technoramus but all my regular IEMs so far distort when plugged into this potent unit.. I attach screenshot of original Aune B1 specs listing from PenonAudio. Oops, no i don't . Doesn't work! For headphone power output it says "@3000 84mW"


----------



## baskingshark (Dec 10, 2020)

warbles said:


> Hellooo! Can i ask if you know whether an amp such as my Aune B1 will drive the Smabat ST10 Black & Gold optimally? I am a total technoramus but all my regular IEMs so far distort when plugged into this potent unit.. I attach screenshot of original Aune B1 specs listing from PenonAudio. Oops, no i don't . Doesn't work! For headphone power output it says "@3000 84mW"



Hi @warbles the advertised specs output for the Aune B1 are as such:

100mW @ 300 Ohm
50mW @ 32 Ohm
25mW @ 16 Ohm

I hope the rest who do have the Aune B1 can help advise you as I don't have it, but IMHO that's not the best for the 150 ohm Black Gold.


----------



## warbles

baskingshark said:


> Hi @warbles the advertised specs output for the Aune B1 are as such:
> 
> 100mW @ 300 Ohm
> 50mW @ 32 Ohm
> ...


Whoa..i see..thankyou...so crazy to be stuck between a rock and a fhard place with this thing! It's too powerful for normal, sensitive IEMs, but too weak for when a


----------



## warbles

baskingshark said:


> Hi @warbles the advertised specs output for the Aune B1 are as such:
> 
> 100mW @ 300 Ohm
> 50mW @ 32 Ohm
> ...


Whoa! Stuck between a rock and a hard place with this thing! Too powerful for all my regular, sensitive IEMs, but not powerful enough when that rare, high impedance set comes along! Thankyou for your response..


----------



## RikudouGoku

warbles said:


> Whoa..i see..thankyou...so crazy to be stuck between a rock and a fhard place with this thing! It's too powerful for normal, sensitive IEMs, but too weak for when a


The B1 has an output impedance of 10 ohms (or if you have the 2016 version it is 3 ohm) which is very high and your iems will hiss with it. Power wise it is quite weak as well. Entry level amps like the JDS atom or the Topping L30 will be much better for your iems and earbuds.


----------



## baskingshark

warbles said:


> Whoa..i see..thankyou...so crazy to be stuck between a rock and a fhard place with this thing! It's too powerful for normal, sensitive IEMs, but too weak for when a



The Aune B1 seems to be an older amp?

Generally for IEMs most folks nowadays use DAPs or DAC/AMP dongles. Something cheap like the Tempotec Sonata HD Pro (around $30ish USD) can give very good sound and are an excellent pairing for highly sensitive IEMs. Very dark background, neutralish, no hiss, very low output impedance. But if u need more power like for planars or very high impedance gear then the Tempotec Sonata HD Pro can't do that.

I used to face this issue of source being suitable for IEMs, but having not enough power for hungrier gear. But then another source that can drive hungry headphones hisses like mad with sensitive IEMs. I finally solved this issue by buying the Topping L30 recently. It has 3 gain switches (-9 db to 0 db to 9 dB) so it can drive everything without hiss and without lack of headroom.

Perhaps if u are lacking power, u can consider the Smabat ST10S Black Silver version. Seems to have a lower impedance than Black Gold but most folks say the Black Gold is still an upgrade if u have a suitable source for it.


----------



## Abu144Hz

sub30 said:


> Use @Sam L 's target. It's some kind of voodoo magic.


I used the v1.5 compensation file for them, and they still kinda sound bad. Am i using the wrong file? I used them with full foams that came in the box. Am i doing it incorrectly? Please guide me, lead me to the magic sir


----------



## warbles (Dec 10, 2020)

RikudouGoku said:


> The B1 has an output impedance of 10 ohms (or if you have the 2016 version it is 3 ohm) which is very high and your iems will hiss with it. Power wise it is quite weak as well. Entry level amps like the JDS atom or the Topping L30 will be much better for your iems and earbuds.


I don't know what you mean by "hiss". I don't hear any hiss, just various distortions. I also have JDS Labs Atom & Atom DAC, Sabaj DAC and a Topping NX3S, but when it doesn't distort, the Aune does something remarkably beautiful to the sound that those other amps can't compare to. So, tricky for me to know what i can do with it!


----------



## RikudouGoku

warbles said:


> I don't know what you mean by "hiss". I don't hear any hiss, just various distortions. I also have JDS Labs Atom, Sabaj DAC and a Topping NX3S, but when it doesn't distort, the Aune does something remarkably beautiful to the sound that those other amps can't compare to. So, tricky for me to know what i can do with it!


It sounds different because having a high OI will change the FR of the transducer (particularly iems and buds). Hiss is something you can tell if it has by playing a track and then pausing it and then listen if you hear something. If you hear something and then disconnect the cable from the amp and the noise is gone, that is hiss.


----------



## warbles

RikudouGoku said:


> It sounds different because having a high OI will change the FR of the transducer (particularly iems and buds). Hiss is something you can tell if it has by playing a track and then pausing it and then listen if you hear something. If you hear something and then disconnect the cable from the amp and the noise is gone, that is hiss.


Okay i think i get that now.. So.. what on earrh _would_ be the best thing to pair with the Aune?


----------



## RikudouGoku

warbles said:


> Okay i think i get that now.. So.. what on earrh _would_ be the best thing to pair with the Aune?


No idea what they designed it for... 

Too high OI for iems. 
Too low output power for headphones and earbuds.


----------



## Sam L

Abu144Hz said:


> I used the v1.5 compensation file for them, and they still kinda sound bad. Am i using the wrong file? I used them with full foams that came in the box. Am i doing it incorrectly? Please guide me, lead me to the magic sir


Are you on wavelet or peace/apo? The nameless compensated with v1.5 neutral version sounds 10x better than default tuning. No joke


----------



## furyossa (Dec 10, 2020)

Carrow said:


> Had a pair of Sony MDR-ED21LP buds ages back. Lost them. Found them. Lost them _again_. Only ever found pairs going on eBay for like €200 or whatever. Stumbled across a listing where they were being sold with a Discman, but the seller was open to just selling the buds and I just got them for €90 or so, let's goooooooo.


And what happened, in the end, did you find them again.
It's a sneaky bud, for sure, and needs to be kept in a box with a padlock.
Also, it requires cable replacement and this kind of cable is a must 









A few euros, up or down, for extra security, it's not out of the question


----------



## Carrow

furyossa said:


> And what happened, in the end, did you find them again.
> It's a sneaky bud, for sure, and needs to be kept in a box with a padlock.
> Also, it requires cable replacement and this kind of cable is a must
> 
> ...



Haven't found them so a second hand pair of maybe not the best earbuds I've ever used but certainly the most sonically impressive is the way to go. I was thinking of getting this pair's cable replaced next year, maybe an MMCX or balanced (or both?) cable installed


----------



## furyossa

Carrow said:


> Haven't found them so a second hand pair of maybe not the best earbuds I've ever used but certainly the most sonically impressive is the way to go. I was thinking of getting this pair's cable replaced next year, maybe an MMCX or balanced (or both?) cable installed


Or maybe modular "AIO" cable (see some links for the parts here)


----------



## Sam L

furyossa said:


> And what happened, in the end, did you find them again.
> It's a sneaky bud, for sure, and needs to be kept in a box with a padlock.
> Also, it requires cable replacement and this kind of cable is a must
> 
> ...


lol  that's awesome. Is that for real?


----------



## furyossa (Dec 10, 2020)

Sam L said:


> lol  that's awesome. Is that for real?


Unfortunately, yes  
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32793123812.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32850112352.html
and they fit nicely with this video


----------



## Sam L

*Virtual Meetup #1*

Date:     Dec. 12
Time:    10pm to 10:50pm PST
Where:  Google Meet. (message me to be added to the calendar invite)

Tentative Agenda:
- Introductions (15 mins.) Love to hear how you got started in the world of earbuds.
- Show and Tell (15-20 mins.) Share new acquisitions, favorite earbuds, what they sound like, how do they compare to other earbuds, etc.
- Mods and DIY (10-15 mins.) Continue with sharing, focused on projects to improve buds sound quality, either hardware or software/eq. Source/amp/bud synergies.
- Any suggestions to add to the agenda welcome! (email me at sam at earbudfi.com)


----------



## chinmie

you know, this thing sounds fine without foams, but once i put one on it, it really quite good!


----------



## furyossa

chinmie said:


> you know, this thing sounds fine without foams, but once i put one on it, it really quite good!


And these are?


----------



## chinmie

furyossa said:


> And these are?



sorry for that, it's the Tronsmart Onyx Ace   
I'm curious if anyone here has tried the Fiil CC2 yet?


----------



## SiggyFraud (Dec 11, 2020)

furyossa said:


> And these are?


@chinmie beat me to it


----------



## Abu144Hz

Sam L said:


> Are you on wavelet or peace/apo? The nameless compensated with v1.5 neutral version sounds 10x better than default tuning. No joke
> [/QUOTE/]
> Peace/apo on windows 10


----------



## furyossa (Dec 11, 2020)

chinmie said:


> sorry for that, it's the Tronsmart Onyx Ace
> I'm curious if anyone here has tried the Fiil CC2 yet?


Fiil CC2 has a very beautiful minimalistic design. They remind me a little of Edifier H190. I like the app but I think there is only a Chinese version 
Not taking into account the quality of the mic, which is far away from decent, I think that TWS earbuds have really improved, in terms of sound quality,
over the last two years, especially budget models. In many models. We can see more and more advanced drivers such as Ti, Graphene, DLC,
also many of these have their own apps with great features for additional tuning which is very important IMO.


----------



## chinmie

furyossa said:


> Fiil CC2 has a very beautiful minimalistic design. They remind me a little of Edifier H190. I like the app but I think there is only a Chinese version
> Not taking into account the quality of the mic, which is far away from decent, I think that TWS earbuds have really improved, in terms of sound quality,
> over the last two years, especially budget models. In many models. We can see more and more advanced drivers such as Ti, Graphene, DLC,
> also many of these have their own apps with great features for additional tuning which is very important IMO.



have you tried the CC2? i wonder how's the connection strength? this Onyx Ace has weaker signal than typical IEM TWS as it sometimes stutter on one side.. might be because of my devices haven't supported TWS+ yet, but then again, i never have any dropouts problem with my other IEM TWS.

The Soundpeats Trueair2 that I've tried had even worse signal dropouts, as simply touching the stem to adjust it would immediately cut out the signal on one /both side. it's a shame because i like the size and fit of it, and the sound is also not bad at all.


----------



## furyossa

chinmie said:


> have you tried the CC2? i wonder how's the connection strength? this Onyx Ace has weaker signal than typical IEM TWS as it sometimes stutter on one side.. might be because of my devices haven't supported TWS+ yet, but then again, i never have any dropouts problem with my other IEM TWS.
> 
> The Soundpeats Trueair2 that I've tried had even worse signal dropouts, as simply touching the stem to adjust it would immediately cut out the signal on one /both side. it's a shame because i like the size and fit of it, and the sound is also not bad at all.


I didn't try CC2. Personally, I don't like airport style cover and already I mention only the Chinese version of the app.
My friend has Soundpeats Trueair2, I only tried them for a short time and I know about the issue with signal dropouts.
I am currently using Soundcore Liberty Air 2 with which I am really pleased. The app is really cool, u can nicely fine-tune the sound.
Also, sound isolation is very good. It provides a "vacuum" seal because of its ergonomic shell design which for some will not be pleasant due to the pressure and echo effect.
I tried many different eartips and for me, KZ "star-tips" and S.e.n.f.e.r_DT6 "groove-tips" which I currently use, are the best option


----------



## jogawag

furyossa said:


> I didn't try CC2. Personally, I don't like airport style cover and already I mention only the Chinese version of the app.
> My friend has Soundpeats Trueair2, I only tried them for a short time and I know about the issue with signal dropouts.
> I am currently using Soundcore Liberty Air 2 with which I am really pleased. The app is really cool, u can nicely fine-tune the sound.
> Also, sound isolation is very good. It provides a "vacuum" seal because of its ergonomic shell design which for some will not be pleasant due to the pressure and echo effect.
> I tried many different eartips and for me, KZ "star-tips" and S.e.n.f.e.r_DT6 "groove-tips" which I currently use, are the best option


Sorry That's in ear canal type earphone, not earbuds...


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> Sorry That's in ear canal type earphone, not earbuds...


Sorry I will be much careful the next time


----------



## usergate (Dec 11, 2020)

warbles said:


> Hellooo! Can i ask if you know whether an amp such as my Aune B1 will drive the Smabat ST10 Black & Gold optimally? I am a total technoramus but all my regular IEMs so far distort when plugged into this potent unit.. I attach screenshot of original Aune B1 specs listing from PenonAudio. Oops, no i don't . Doesn't work! For headphone power output it says "@3000 84mW"


Earbuds sound good enough on a DAP (for 150 ohms - balanced 200 mW, single-end 170 mW), but with an amplifier (600 mW) everything is better.


----------



## Sam L

chinmie said:


> have you tried the CC2? i wonder how's the connection strength? this Onyx Ace has weaker signal than typical IEM TWS as it sometimes stutter on one side.. might be because of my devices haven't supported TWS+ yet, but then again, i never have any dropouts problem with my other IEM TWS.
> 
> The Soundpeats Trueair2 that I've tried had even worse signal dropouts, as simply touching the stem to adjust it would immediately cut out the signal on one /both side. it's a shame because i like the size and fit of it, and the sound is also not bad at all.


I had the CC gen 1 (was stolen along with my backpack). One of my favorite TWS earphones.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Anyone know of full size cans that have the lush, velvety mids of VE Zen 2.0's? Meze 99's seem to be the only ones I've found like that so far.


----------



## lackOfInspiration

Came across measurments of a pair of Rose Mojito made on a GRAS 45-CA... Is the legend really up to its reputation? At least I guess no one could call them dark


----------



## furyossa

lackOfInspiration said:


> Came across measurments of a pair of Rose Mojito made on a GRAS 45-CA... Is the legend really up to its reputation? At least I guess no one could call them dark


Rose Maria looks great and probably sounds as good as it looks. The size of the shell is too big for earbuds. I hope that the price justify overall quality.
Before the model of Maria came out, I expected that ROSE would work only on the build quality and release a Pro version for Mesya and Mojito.
These two models just need a "new suit" to shine again


----------



## jogawag

lackOfInspiration said:


> Came across measurments of a pair of Rose Mojito made on a GRAS 45-CA... Is the legend really up to its reputation? At least I guess no one could call them dark


This is an RF graph I found when I used to have a Rose Mjito.
The highs and lows don't seem to measure up to the extremes.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

lackOfInspiration said:


> Came across measurments of a pair of Rose Mojito made on a GRAS 45-CA... Is the legend really up to its reputation? At least I guess no one could call them dark


Mojitos are fairly bright and analytical to my ears


----------



## jogawag

furyossa said:


> Rose Maria looks great and probably sounds as good as it looks. The size of the shell is too big for earbuds. I hope that the price justify overall quality.
> Before the model of Maria came out, I expected that ROSE would work only on the build quality and release a Pro version for Mesya and Mojito.
> These two models just need a "new suit" to shine again


Rose Maria2 is coming out and it can be considered as an improved version of the first one in the mid and low range.
The shell seems to be all metal and even heavier.

The source is as follows
http://www.erji.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2210659


----------



## Au13

Fresh out of the box


----------



## furyossa

Au13 said:


> Fresh out of the box


Probably they smell very nice   Happy listening


----------



## Sam L

lackOfInspiration said:


> Came across measurments of a pair of Rose Mojito made on a GRAS 45-CA... Is the legend really up to its reputation? At least I guess no one could call them dark


nice find but those df compensated graphs don't look right -- they're obviously raw


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> Rose Maria2 is coming out and it can be considered as an improved version of the first one in the mid and low range.
> The shell seems to be all metal and even heavier.
> 
> The source is as follows
> http://www.erji.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2210659


And looks like It's smaller? Black and silver color scheme will be nice, what do you think?


----------



## Sam L

*VE Monk Lite 120ohm
v1.5 neutral version*

here


----------



## lackOfInspiration (Dec 11, 2020)

jogawag said:


> This is an RF graph I found when I used to have a Rose Mjito.
> The highs and lows don't seem to measure up to the extremes.


How is this measured? It might not be incompatible with the measurments I linked.



Sam L said:


> nice find but those df compensated graphs don't look right -- they're obviously raw


Yes I also think compensation error is a possibility here. But the raw is in light gray on the first graph and the impedance vs frequency suggests an intense high frequencies boost as well. If it really souds like this it's unlistanable: what do people who actually heard them think of it? For the moment I'would stick with the compensation error hypothesis even though this blog is usually very reliable.


----------



## rkw

jogawag said:


> Rose Maria2 is coming out and it can be considered as an improved version of the first one in the mid and low range.
> The shell seems to be all metal and even heavier.
> 
> The source is as follows
> http://www.erji.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2210659


https://taingheviet.com/rose-maria-ii-pr9177.html


----------



## furyossa

rkw said:


> https://taingheviet.com/rose-maria-ii-pr9177.html


There is no need to comment on this. I just ran out of words 
Two blue sapphires


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

rkw said:


> https://taingheviet.com/rose-maria-ii-pr9177.html


Must buy for me. Mojitos are my favourite audio monitors period, full size headphones included.


----------



## cowtter (Dec 12, 2020)

cowtter said:


> Saw these on that page and am somewhat intrigued, would I just need to pick up a cable for these? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000131213791.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.1e8b3c003fBmqg&mp=1
> 
> Is their stuff usually pretty solid?




Anyone have a take on these or a cable recommendation?

Really new to this stuff, but knowing how well the apple earbuds have done for me I feel like this would be a solid base assuming the specs are right. They list the brand as Leagginal but I can't find too much about them.


Saw these as well, planning on going with them unless there is something I am missing that stands out to you guys

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...0o.store_home.smartJustForYou_2000020839078.7

I talked to the store and they said these have different drivers that the ones I linked before, but I really don't know what I should be looking for.

Sorry again, just feel like I am jumping into the deep end learning about this stuff and don't wanna end up with 100 pairs before I know what i'm doing.


----------



## Sam L

*Toneking tp16*

opened up the tp16 just now. Haven't given them a listen quite yet but I'm already impressed with the value you get at $13. Cable has low memory retention. A welcome nod to quality compared to the cable on the Monk Lite 120ohm. That cable retain all the kinks from packaging for a long time. It will take a while to straighten out. Annoying. I also love that Toneking provides 12 foams, nice touch.


----------



## dissociativity

Tayyab Pirzada said:


> Must buy for me. Mojitos are my favourite audio monitors period, full size headphones included.


Wasn't aware there was a Maria 2, here I was thinking of saving up for and crying at my burnt $$$$ on a maria 1.

I've got a masya coming that I should really settle for though, must be conscious of savings for the year given the state of the world.


----------



## Sam L

jogawag said:


> This is an RF graph I found when I used to have a Rose Mjito.
> The highs and lows don't seem to measure up to the extremes.


Your graph is much more believable than the one in the link.


----------



## Sam L

rkw said:


> https://taingheviet.com/rose-maria-ii-pr9177.html


I'm thinking that the heavier buds, along with such a beefy cable, might contribute to a fit that is easily displaced. Regardless, beautiful looking buds!


----------



## rprodrigues

Any sign of the EBX Pro? 

I was told by Nicehck staff that they would be released this 12.12...


----------



## 1clearhead (Dec 12, 2020)

About: Yincrow RW-9 and Yincrow X6

After owning and listening to both the X6 and RW-9 for over 6 months, I can say that I find the RW-9 more revealing and more extended with plenty of details on both ends. Don't get me wrong, the X6 are a lot of fun to listen to with plenty of bass to go around, but the RW-9 just takes details and overall soundstage to another level. Now, even though the bass is not as fast or louder than the X6, in my opinion is because the RW-9's sub-bass plays on a sweeter level with more convincing texture and rumble. Here in China, the RW-9 is doing very well with sales with plenty to go around, especially in taobao. So, it's odd to me that the RW-9's are fading away anytime soon. But, if it's fading overseas do to lack of demand, I suggest everyone here should really jump on a pair, before they become really hard to get.

-Clear


----------



## mtl171

*FAAEAL Snow Lotus 1.0+ Blue CE (64 ohms)*

This is my first earbud since using Apple earbuds roughly 8 or so years ago. I'm seriously impressed by the quality of sound that comes of this $12 bud. The treble was initially piercing and the bass a bit weak, through throwing on a set of full foams tamed the highs and boosted the lows for a relatively balanced sound. To my ear (vs HD650s and ER4XRs), it comes off as being slightly warm with a minor boost in the upper mids (which make female vocals pop). All things considered, I'm very impressed for the cost especially with how relatively tame the tuning is vs IEMs in a similar price bracket (KZ IEMs looking at you).

I am definitely looking forward to trying new buds. If anyone has any other suggestion for mid focused buds with decent bass, I'm all ears! I'm currently considering the: Penon Audio EA buds as well as the Smabat ST-10S gold.


----------



## jogawag

mtl171 said:


> *FAAEAL Snow Lotus 1.0+ Blue CE (64 ohms)*
> 
> This is my first earbud since using Apple earbuds roughly 8 or so years ago. I'm seriously impressed by the quality of sound that comes of this $12 bud. The treble was initially piercing and the bass a bit weak, through throwing on a set of full foams tamed the highs and boosted the lows for a relatively balanced sound. To my ear (vs HD650s and ER4XRs), it comes off as being slightly warm with a minor boost in the upper mids (which make female vocals pop). All things considered, I'm very impressed for the cost especially with how relatively tame the tuning is vs IEMs in a similar price bracket (KZ IEMs looking at you).
> 
> I am definitely looking forward to trying new buds. If anyone has any other suggestion for mid focused buds with decent bass, I'm all ears! I'm currently considering the: Penon Audio EA buds as well as the Smabat ST-10S gold.


The Smabat ST-10S gold may be bass focused buds.
You can try low-cost NICEHCK B40 instead.


----------



## Multiverso (Dec 12, 2020)

mtl171 said:


> *FAAEAL Snow Lotus 1.0+ Blue CE (64 ohms)*
> 
> This is my first earbud since using Apple earbuds roughly 8 or so years ago. I'm seriously impressed by the quality of sound that comes of this $12 bud. The treble was initially piercing and the bass a bit weak, through throwing on a set of full foams tamed the highs and boosted the lows for a relatively balanced sound. To my ear (vs HD650s and ER4XRs), it comes off as being slightly warm with a minor boost in the upper mids (which make female vocals pop). All things considered, I'm very impressed for the cost especially with how relatively tame the tuning is vs IEMs in a similar price bracket (KZ IEMs looking at you).
> 
> I am definitely looking forward to trying new buds. If anyone has any other suggestion for mid focused buds with decent bass, I'm all ears! I'm currently considering the: Penon Audio EA buds as well as the Smabat ST-10S gold.


EMX500 (brown cable) - outstanding separation and imaging; remarkable in every aspects, except the life expectancy of the drivers.
Like a convertible V8 engine in a sunset drive.

EMX500S (black or blue shell) - as the old brother, except this S version has: upper mids a tad forward (take in account for long sessions), better life expectancy of the drivers, but cable is quite stiff.
Like a V8 engine in a track race.

(I have the Snow Lotus 1.0+ blue 64 Ohms, very good build and SQ earbuds, and with a lovely color. But those EMX500/S are a step up in SQ, IMO.)
Cheers.


----------



## baskingshark

mtl171 said:


> *FAAEAL Snow Lotus 1.0+ Blue CE (64 ohms)*
> 
> This is my first earbud since using Apple earbuds roughly 8 or so years ago. I'm seriously impressed by the quality of sound that comes of this $12 bud. The treble was initially piercing and the bass a bit weak, through throwing on a set of full foams tamed the highs and boosted the lows for a relatively balanced sound. To my ear (vs HD650s and ER4XRs), it comes off as being slightly warm with a minor boost in the upper mids (which make female vocals pop). All things considered, I'm very impressed for the cost especially with how relatively tame the tuning is vs IEMs in a similar price bracket (KZ IEMs looking at you).
> 
> I am definitely looking forward to trying new buds. If anyone has any other suggestion for mid focused buds with decent bass, I'm all ears! I'm currently considering the: Penon Audio EA buds as well as the Smabat ST-10S gold.



Just my 2 cents for your queries:

1) *Penon Audio Earbuds Anonymous* - this is an L shaped set, warm, bassy and smooth with rolled off treble. The bass is midbass focused and north of neutral, with slight subbass roll off. Still better than most other buds in subbass extension, but not as well extended in the bass as the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold. Bass bleeds a bit into mids. Lower mids are depressed slightly with a slight boost in the upper mids, which are nevertheless quite smooth and transparent. Minimal shoutiness in the upper mids unlike some other CHIFI tuned IEMs/earbuds. Timbre and technicalities are above average.

The treble is rolled off as discussed and hence treble nuances and microdetails are actually missing in a lot of songs I'm familiar with. So if you like sparkle and air in your music and like treble details, best to look elsewhere. The EA is a niche tuning as such, maybe for bassheads that are treble sensitive. It sells at $50 USD usually, but if you are their FB member or on some sales it can go at $25 USD. I wouldn't recommend it at full price for sure, unless this is a tuning you are sure you want. Very anonymous as per its namesake. 



2)* SMABAT ST10S Black Gold* - neutralish set with a slight upper mids and subbass boost. The best earbud I have heard for subbass extension and quantity. It needs amping though, very high impedance. Excellent technicalities and my current end game earbud. It isn't as cold in the mids and timbre as the predecessor the SMABAT ST10 (non S). Detachable too, a lot of TOTL earbuds even in 2020 have non detachable cables, which are a potential source of failure. Can be worn over ears and cable down, so multiple fit options. Not to be mixed up with the SMABAT ST10S Black Silver, which is tuned differently (and has lower impedance).


----------



## waynes world

1clearhead said:


> About: Yincrow RW-9 and Yincrow X6
> 
> After owning and listening to both the X6 and RW-9 for over 6 months, I can say that I find the RW-9 more revealing and more extended with plenty of details on both ends. Don't get me wrong, the RW-6 are a lot of fun to listen to with plenty of bass to go around, but the RW-9 just takes details and overall soundstage to another level. Now, even though the bass is not as fast or louder than the X6, in my opinion is because the RW-9's sub-bass plays on a sweeter level with more convincing texture and rumble. Here in China, the RW-9 is doing very well with sales with plenty to go around, especially in taobao. So, it's odd to me that the RW-9's are fading away anytime soon. But, if it's fading overseas do to lack of demand, I suggest everyone here should really jump on a pair, before they become really hard to get.
> 
> -Clear



Love the RW-9's. Have the X6's on the way, and have too many buds and usually don't buy backups. But I might buy a backup pair of the RW-9's (your post isn't helping lol).



Multiverso said:


> EMX500 (brown cable) - outstanding separation and imaging; remarkable in every aspects, except the life expectancy of the drivers.
> Like a convertible V8 engine in a sunset drive.



I have the white cable variant:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32823569005.html

Have been listening to them for 3 weeks since getting them, and I love them as well.


----------



## Sam L

Multiverso said:


> EMX500 (brown cable) - outstanding separation and imaging; remarkable in every aspects, except the life expectancy of the drivers.
> Like a convertible V8 engine in a sunset drive.
> 
> EMX500S (black or blue shell) - as the old brother, except this S version has: upper mids a tad forward (take in account for long sessions), better life expectancy of the drivers, but cable is quite stiff.
> ...


The emx500 is one of my favorites. I didn't know there was an issue with the longevity of the drivers. What is the issue? Do they tend to die near end of life? what timeframe? I'm relatively new to earbuds so never really heard about drivers dying out (well, maybe biocellulose).


----------



## Sam L

waynes world said:


> Love the RW-9's. Have the X6's on the way, and have too many buds and usually don't buy backups. But I might buy a backup pair of the RW-9's (your post isn't helping lol).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, the rw-9's are fantastic, though I still prefer the x6's a tad. But if I'm being honest, the rw-9's are more iem friendly in sound.


----------



## Sam L

If anyone is on in 90 minutes and want to join us in our virtual meetup, PM me and I'll give you the meeting link.

We'll be on at 10pm PST.


----------



## baskingshark

Sam L said:


> The emx500 is one of my favorites. I didn't know there was an issue with the longevity of the drivers. What is the issue? Do they tend to die near end of life? what timeframe? I'm relatively new to earbuds so never really heard about drivers dying out (well, maybe biocellulose).



I'm relatively new to earbuds but have been using IEMs and headphones for about close to 20 years and I suppose the drivers can be postulated to work similarly for single DD types (which majority of earbuds are). In my journey so far, the cable is generally first area to die rather than drivers. I'm a bit wary of TOTL earbuds that come in non detachable cables even in 2020 for the above reasons. I'm quite afraid they will be a point of failure down the line, maybe unless you have the skills to recable/do MMCX mods. So I generally try not to buy anything more than $50 USD without detachable cables, YMMV.

Assuming u treat your drivers well, they can last a long time, eg no excessive sweating/humidity/temperature changes and dropping them etc, keep them in hard cases etc. I find DD in general more robust than BA drivers and I have a few IEMs that are actually almost 20 years old and are still working fine today! Biocellulose is another story though, I only have a few sets that have this material, but they are like < 2 years old so not sure what is their expected lifespan.

Anyway with how fast this rabbithole moves, nowadays we will likely get a new hypetrain in the mail way before any driver dies haha.


----------



## mtl171

jogawag said:


> The Smabat ST-10S gold may be bass focused buds.
> You can try low-cost NICEHCK B40 instead.


Thanks for the recommendation! The NiceHCK B40 has been waiting in my cart as a yuin shell demo so just happens to work out. I heard the gold is less warm then the silver, though I'll have to look into it more.



Multiverso said:


> EMX500 (brown cable) - outstanding separation and imaging; remarkable in every aspects, except the life expectancy of the drivers.
> Like a convertible V8 engine in a sunset drive.
> 
> EMX500S (black or blue shell) - as the old brother, except this S version has: upper mids a tad forward (take in account for long sessions), better life expectancy of the drivers, but cable is quite stiff.
> ...


Thanks for the recommendation! I haven't heard anything about the EMX500 buds so will need to look into those as well. I definitely have noticed that the Snow Lotus are a bit slow with fast bass but for the price I can't complain 



baskingshark said:


> Just my 2 cents for your queries:
> 
> 1) *Penon Audio Earbuds Anonymous* - this is an L shaped set, warm, bassy and smooth with rolled off treble. The bass is midbass focused and north of neutral, with slight subbass roll off. Still better than most other buds in subbass extension, but not as well extended in the bass as the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold. Bass bleeds a bit into mids. Lower mids are depressed slightly with a slight boost in the upper mids, which are nevertheless quite smooth and transparent. Minimal shoutiness in the upper mids unlike some other CHIFI tuned IEMs/earbuds. Timbre and technicalities are above average.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the write up! I've been really curious about the EA buds as I've heard them talked about often on the EA group, but people don't really mention how they sound. I guess that crossing them off my list. The smambat st10s sounds like itll have a sound signature i'd appreciate plus the price and detacchable cable is a nice bonus. I do have a oppo ha2se right now, though I'm open to picking up a new amp (have my eye on a JDS atom) if need be.


----------



## Sam L (Dec 13, 2020)

If anyone wants to drop in and say "Hi".


Join with Google Meet
meet.google.com/dzd-zprr-jga


----------



## Alteria (Dec 13, 2020)

Just got the NiceHCK DIY MX500 with the white cable and I love it! It's my first one and I'm surprised at how good it sounds. Been using it a lot more than my headphones now.

Would love to grab more earbuds around 10USD and need some recommendations. If possible something a bit on the bright side.


----------



## iemhater

waynes world said:


> Multiverso said:
> 
> 
> > EMX500 (brown cable) - outstanding separation and imaging; remarkable in every aspects, except the life expectancy of the drivers.
> ...



Aren't the mx500s different from each vendor? They buy the mx500 shells wholesale and put a mystery driver inside them. They could even vary between each purchase or each year.

I myself bought a Nicehck one from all the recommendations here.



baskingshark said:


> In my journey so far, the cable is generally first area to die rather than drivers



How do you tell if the cable is at fault? To me it seems like the cable is much less likely to be damaged, it is a very simple thing compared to a driver. The circuitry could fail, the diaphragm could be perforated or detached etc... The cable should work unless it is cut. The buds I've had that failed I assumed the driver was at fault since I couldn't see any damage on the cables.


----------



## baskingshark (Dec 13, 2020)

iemhater said:


> How do you tell if the cable is at fault? To me it seems like the cable is much less likely to be damaged, it is a very simple thing compared to a driver. The circuitry could fail, the diaphragm could be perforated or detached etc... The cable should work unless it is cut. The buds I've had that failed I assumed the driver was at fault since I couldn't see any damage on the cables.



For detachable cable gear it is easy to tell if the cable is faulty, if there's no sound with the faulty cable, u swap a new one in and it works.

For non detachable cable that is faulty, u can tell it is the issue in a few ways
- Eg it doesn't seem to work, but you get sound by angling the cable at certain directions
- Eg u can use measuring equipment in shops (or if u have the expertise) to tell that there is no signal via the cable. I've brought a few to the shop (non detachable sets that failed at cable) and they did a MMCX or recabling mod and viola it works again.

The cable can actually look intact but it may have lost soldering points or something internally. From my experience ( i had 5 non detachable IEMs die at the cable), they usually die at the cable insertion point to the IEM housing, as that's where it bends the most I suppose. For detachable sets, they usually fail at the MMCX point (become too loose and start spinning like a wind vane).


----------



## Multiverso

Sam L said:


> The emx500 is one of my favorites. I didn't know there was an issue with the longevity of the drivers. What is the issue? Do they tend to die near end of life? what timeframe? I'm relatively new to earbuds so never really heard about drivers dying out (well, maybe biocellulose).


Hi. Well, i just saw my order history in Aliexpress for the EMX500 version (not the S version). The first was in 14-July-2017, in a total of 13 units (one is on the way).

For the 12 units used, i would say about 8 to 9 of them ended up having the same problem: reverberation in low and sub-low notes, at least in one of the drivers (sometimes in the left, other times in the right driver).

It can happen in the first week, the first month or in the following months. But i'm pretty sure that one variable is determinant to make it happen: the volume. More specifically, the louder volume with bass and sub-bass notes among it. Or using technical terms, the more SPL (Sound Pressure Level) present in listening music sessions, the more likelihood for the reverberation arises.

Very likely the problem is located in the diaphragm (membrane), which being dynamic driver is much more evident when the low notes are being produced.

(In a speculative sentence, perhaps their biggest strength, could simultaneously be their biggest weakness.)

Some say to take off the shell and try to make a soft blow with the mouth to remove any possible dust or microscopic hair, but that never worked for me.

For the last and more recent units i tried to give them purposefully an initial burn-in in a very moderate volume to see if there's any kind of strengthen/adaptation of the diaphragms, but still hard to say if it works because the sample is small.

Other minor problem is the trend to microphonics (small noises of the wires inside the shell), but only when we are on the move, in body movement like walking or running.

Despite all of this, it's delightful what they provide! In love since the first pair.


----------



## jogawag

Multiverso said:


> Hi. Well, i just saw my order history in Aliexpress for the EMX500 version (not the S version). The first was in 14-July-2017, in a total of 13 units (one is on the way).
> 
> For the 12 units used, i would say about 8 to 9 of them ended up having the same problem: reverberation in low and sub-low notes, at least in one of the drivers (sometimes in the left, other times in the right driver).
> 
> ...



I don't know what kind of loud volume listening to the EMX500 will break the driver, but for you, I recommend the FENGRU DIY MMCX MX500 and the following MMCX OFC cable.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000455867566.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32974773971.html

If you buy 4 pairs of FENGRU DIY MMCX MX500 and one cable for about $29, you can survive 6 broken drivers.


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> I don't know what kind of loud volume listening to the EMX500 will break the driver, but for you, I recommend the FENGRU DIY MMCX MX500 and the following MMCX OFC cable.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000455867566.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32974773971.html
> 
> If you buy 4 pairs of FENGRU DIY MMCX MX500 and one cable for about $29, you can survive 6 broken drivers.


You figured this out really well  
If you want to go even lower, then it is better to take the cables in the same store. Here he can find probably something at a good price
https://gratituding.aliexpress.com/store/group/Headphone-Accessories/1422180_511085230.html


----------



## furyossa

@jogawag Did you do that "port" mod for RW-9.? How it turned out in the end?


----------



## jogawag (Dec 15, 2020)

furyossa said:


> @jogawag Did you do that "port" mod for RW-9.? How it turned out in the end?


>Try to seal one side (3 ports) or all 6 and then punch a small hole on each side.
In the end, I didn't use hot glue or BLU-TACK, instead I sealed the 2 ports on each side with round tape.
The bass became a little more, but not enough to bleed into the mids, to sound good.


----------



## jogawag

Alteria said:


> Just got the NiceHCK DIY MX500 with the white cable and I love it! It's my first one and I'm surprised at how good it sounds. Been using it a lot more than my headphones now.
> 
> Would love to grab more earbuds around 10USD and need some recommendations. If possible something a bit on the bright side.


I recommend to you NiceHCK Traceless(red and blue shell).


----------



## superuser1

Any thoughts on the Edifier H180?


----------



## Multiverso (Dec 15, 2020)

jogawag said:


> I don't know what kind of loud volume listening to the EMX500 will break the driver, but for you, I recommend the FENGRU DIY MMCX MX500 and the following MMCX OFC cable.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000455867566.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32974773971.html
> 
> If you buy 4 pairs of FENGRU DIY MMCX MX500 and one cable for about $29, you can survive 6 broken drivers.


My friend, that doesn't include the drivers. It's only the shells and cable, which are not needed.

Almost forgot, one year ago i ordered 5 pair of drivers, but lacks time and resolution to get hands on the job.


----------



## Alteria

jogawag said:


> I recommend to you NiceHCK Traceless(red and blue shell).



Thank you so much! Will be looking forward to trying this one out.


----------



## povidlo

superuser1 said:


> Any thoughts on the Edifier H180?


Plenty. Search for "H180" in this thread.

I personally went with H185 after reading the feedback here.


----------



## chinmie

superuser1 said:


> Any thoughts on the Edifier H180?



if you like warm sound and big bass, it's worth checking out. the H185 on the other hand sounds similar to the Koss KSC75: bright and airy


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Does anyone have any additions and/or corrections they would like me to make to the following earbuds timeline?



WoodyLuvr said:


> *HISTORY OF EARBUDS (Key Models Timeline)*
> 
> *GOLDEN AGE*
> 1981 - Kenwood KH-0.5 "Petit Horn" (32Ω)
> ...


----------



## assassin10000

WoodyLuvr said:


> Does anyone have any additions and/or corrections they would like me to make to the following earbuds timeline?



Nicehck EBX 2017
Ourart ACG 2017 or 2018?
K's Little Bell/LBB (original version) 2016-2018?
Rose Maria 2019
Smabat M1 Pro 2019
K's Little Bell/LBB (new version) 2020
Smabat M2 Pro 2020
Rose Maria II 2020


----------



## WoodyLuvr

assassin10000 said:


> Nicehck EBX 2017
> Ourart ACG 2017 or 2018?
> K's Little Bell/LBB (original version) 2016-2018?
> Rose Maria 2019
> ...


Nice; once I figure out the impedances I will add 'em!


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Does anyone have any additions and/or corrections they would like me to make to the following earbuds timeline?


Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis (2020)
Yincrow RW-9 and X6 (not sure about release dates) 
Moondrop Chaconne (2019?)


----------



## furyossa (Dec 15, 2020)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Nice; once I figure out the impedances I will add 'em!


Nickhck EBX (2017) uses 14.8mm driver (PET), sensitivity: 120dB ;  impedance: 32ohm ; freq.range:20Hz-20kHz
FAAEAL DATURA PRO (2019) uses 14.8mm driver (Al film) Sensitivity: 106dB ; impedance: 16ohm ; freq.range:18Hz – 20kHz
BGVP DX5 (2019) uses 14.2mm driver (DLC) Sensitivity: 111dB ; impedance: 30ohm ; freq.range:10Hz – 45kHz


----------



## snowmind

Between RY4S MMCX vs RY4S MMCX Plus, what is the difference besides the price?


----------



## RikudouGoku

snowmind said:


> Between RY4S MMCX vs RY4S MMCX Plus, what is the difference besides the price?


Some info here: https://forum.hifiguides.com/t/rice-guru-s-earbud-adventure-electric-boogaloo/10590


----------



## snowmind

RikudouGoku said:


> Some info here: https://forum.hifiguides.com/t/rice-guru-s-earbud-adventure-electric-boogaloo/10590



Thanks for your tip, it seems like a good shortcut to get to the answer. Pinned to read later.


----------



## Sam L (Dec 15, 2020)

*Thoughts on system-wide EQ for the Mac OS*

I've switched over to a macbook for the next month or so... a habit from designing customer support systems where I switch back and forth between a windows laptop and a macbook regularly. (Not necessary nowadays but old habits die hard.)

It's been a pain to find a good system-wide PEQ implementation that will allow me to save and select 20+ custom settings. I've tried BlackHole, Soundflower, Host AU, AU labs and a couple others whose names escape me.

The most promising is SoundSource (not free though).

Pros:
- can access apple system filters
- can save unlimited 10 band GEQ settings
- has autoeq (they call it "headphone eq") integration with access to the online Harman corrected database.
- in active development, so improvements are coming(?)

Cons:
- no PEQ
- cannot load custom autoeq files
- no ability to set pre-amp values.


----------



## iemhater

Does anyone know where this list came from and if it can be trusted?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...xCllewXP8cfC2RK-1_XnAo/pubhtml?gid=1362510242

It seems to go against many of the ratings on here like Yincrow x6 and Tomahawk being rated relatively low.


----------



## wskl

iemhater said:


> Does anyone know where this list came from and if it can be trusted?
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...xCllewXP8cfC2RK-1_XnAo/pubhtml?gid=1362510242
> 
> It seems to go against many of the ratings on here like Yincrow x6 and Tomahawk being rated relatively low.



When ClieOS decided to stop his earbud ranking, someone on head-fi created this survey, most of the votes are from head-fi members.  The tier system is based on price, '1' being the higher price tier, and '5' is low budget.

In this hobby, everyone's opinion is subjective, someone may like earbud X but yourself may not like it, I would just use the survey as a guide.  As always the only way for you to really test a product is to buy yourself, trust your own ears.


----------



## iemhater (Dec 15, 2020)

wskl said:


> When ClieOS decided to stop his earbud ranking, someone on head-fi created this survey, most of the votes are from head-fi members.  The tier system is based on price, '1' being the higher price tier, and '5' is low budget.
> 
> In this hobby, everyone's opinion is subjective, someone may like earbud X but yourself may not like it, I would just use the survey as a guide.  As always the only way for you to really test a product is to buy yourself, trust your own ears.



Yeah I understand that opinion would be subjective, but I would have thought that better buds would on average be a little higher and not near the bottom of the list. Nearly every review I've seen rated yincrow x6 near the top yet in this survey it is near the bottom. If both this survey and the reviews here are equally trustable, that means both are useless for ranking earbuds if they are giving complete opposite ranks.


----------



## baskingshark

snowmind said:


> Between RY4S MMCX vs RY4S MMCX Plus, what is the difference besides the price?



The Plus version is bassier.

If u can top up a bit, go for the RY4S 300 ohm version. That one has a more refined and balanced tuning, tighter bass, better technicalities. Though it needs amping due to the 300 ohm impedance.


----------



## povidlo

One lovely Rose Maria has arrived 😍


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I just have to say, even after years of tying headphones, the Rose Mojitos stand at the absolute top of the mountain for me. And I'm comparing them even to full-size cans. I haven't heard something as good as them in that market.

They have a slightly U shaped sound signature with slightly recessed/distant mids, sparkly treble, and an extremely tight and extended bass going all the way to the bottom, with a lot of punch in the sub-bass and also good mid-bass rumble. The sound signature is bright and analytical. And the sound stage is HUGE, like you're sitting in a concert hall.

The technical prowess of these earbuds is that they have amazing bass at the same time as having amazing treble and amazing soundstage. Usually you either choose big soundstage and good treble, or good bass, but not both. Mojitos do both at the same time. The only fault is maybe the mids with the distant vocals, but I generally just switch to other buds when I want velvelty and intimate vocals (like the Shozy Cygnus which shines for this). 

I showed the Mojitos to my brother the other day (who is more of a gamer than an audiophile but he uses Sennheiser Momentum 2's as his daily driver) and he said "these earbuds sound like full size headphones. It's kind of astonishing actually".

Does anyone here know of full-size headphones that sound similar to the Mojitos? I've been in search for such a pair for years now. Perhaps the Sennheiser HD700's or 800's? Haven't tried those yet...


----------



## Xzephyr23

ClieOS said:


> RW-1000 is about a upper 2nd tier or lower 1st tier to my ears, while QJ21 is around a mid to lower 1st tier. So overall I find QJ21 to be just a little better.
> 
> 
> 
> Not yet. The promised shipping date by Rose is on December 20th, so no one has received his/her Maria yet. They did however told us it should be still on schedule at this point as all the parts have arrived at the factory last week and are currently on assembly.



I completely agree! What do you consider to be better than the QJ21? I am on a search! Please help! Thank you very much


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Dec 16, 2020)

*@assassin10000 @RikudouGoku @furyossa *

All your submissions have been duly added 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15645663


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

do people here think the big manufacturers will make a return to earbuds or no? I personally really dislike IEm's because they hurt my ears. what do people think of the new Audio Technica earbuds that cost like $400?


----------



## baskingshark

Tayyab Pirzada said:


> do people here think the big manufacturers will make a return to earbuds or no? I personally really dislike IEm's because they hurt my ears. what do people think of the new Audio Technica earbuds that cost like $400?



Fiio recently went to do the expensive EM5 earbud, but I think by and large, earbuds are very niche, and are seen by most consumers (and probably manufacturers) as not a big seller compared to traditional IEMs and headphones. Most of my audiophile friends snob at earbuds when I offer them a listen.

Indeed most earbuds are relatively cheaper than IEMs and headphones for similar sound quality, and if you look at TOTL earbuds, they are way way cheaper than IEMs and headphones.


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

baskingshark said:


> Fiio recently went to do the expensive EM5 earbud, but I think by and large, earbuds are very niche, and are seen by most consumers (and probably manufacturers) as not a big seller compared to traditional IEMs and headphones. Most of my audiophile friends snob at earbuds when I offer them a listen.
> 
> Indeed most earbuds are relatively cheaper than IEMs and headphones for similar sound quality, and if you look at TOTL earbuds, they are way way cheaper than IEMs and headphones.



true...more for us then i guess haha


----------



## furyossa (Dec 16, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Fiio recently went to do the expensive EM5 earbud, but I think by and large, earbuds are very niche, and are seen by most consumers (and probably manufacturers) as not a big seller compared to traditional IEMs and headphones. Most of my audiophile friends snob at earbuds when I offer them a listen.
> 
> Indeed most earbuds are relatively cheaper than IEMs and headphones for similar sound quality, and if you look at TOTL earbuds, they are way way cheaper than IEMs and headphones.


I respect manufacturers who have consistency in the production of several models per year with different quality and prices for their products.
On the other hand, we have a case where new manufacturers appear who start from the very beginning with very high prices and some stupid advertisements for a product where everything is "shocking" and "superb".
The next case are "well-established" manufacturers who are known for various devices, not just headphones. Some of them constantly keep the price high, but in most cases, that price does not justify the overall quality of the device itself.
Like you sad, there are much cheaper ones, almost every day we see new models and new technologies so the choice is enormous and IMO it's absurd to chase models with an excessively high price, regardless of the type of device and especially when the product has not yet seen "the light of day".
I like to use earbuds, they are my primary choice for everyday listening, but that doesn't mean I don't like IEM's and headphones. It mostly depends on my mood and the type of music I listen to. Also, outside I don't use earbuds and headphones at all.
Many of us certainly have models in their collection that are cheap in every sense: cheap materials and not so good build quality but the sound is surprisingly good. These models usually sit on the table in front of you and not in a drawer that you rarely open. I would rather choose such a model than some fancy looking with "superb - indestructible" build and a driver made of " Kryptonite" who tries to imitate some specific sound signature which was accepted by some scientist and I'm constantly trying to convince myself that it sounds good while my ears are bleeding


----------



## Sam L (Dec 16, 2020)

Are any of you on a macbook when taking measurements?

I'm having trouble establishing a clean signal path to calibrate my sound card. Tried laptop card, usb dacs, different dongles, docks, cables. All terrible compared to my windows rig.


----------



## jogawag

WoodyLuvr said:


> Does anyone have any additions and/or corrections they would like me to make to the following earbuds timeline?


Sorry I'm late. 
2012 - Vido (32Ω)
2018 - Blox TM9 (32Ω)
2020 - Fiio EM5 (32Ω)
2020 - Yincrow RW-2000 (16Ω)


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> Are any of you on a macbook when taking measurements?
> 
> I'm haven't trouble establishing a clean signal path to calibrate my sound card. Tried laptop card, usb dacs, different dongles, docks, cables. All terrible compared to my windows rig.


I have a problem with my old laptop (win 8.1), weak and bad signal. It works well with portable DAC/AMP but when I try to calibrate mic and DAC with REW it not work.
On my new laptop (win 10) I don't have that problem. It acts like the older laptop doesn't have enough volume power to do the calibration. I can't figure out what's going on


----------



## macunaima

My BK2 is arriving today or tomorrow, what do you guys recommend to listen with it?


----------



## furyossa

macunaima said:


> My BK2 is arriving today or tomorrow, what do you guys recommend to listen with it?


Sorry man, but this is a bit funny. Don't you have a selection of songs that you like to listen to?
I don't know if they are good for classical music, but for other genres they probably are.


----------



## rkw

Tayyab Pirzada said:


> what do people think of the new Audio Technica earbuds that cost like $400?


ATH-CM2000Ti. It isn't new (at least 2 years old). Search for it in this thread. It has not been well received.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

*@jogawag*
No problem; duly added! 


jogawag said:


> Sorry I'm late.
> 2012 - Vido (32Ω)
> 2018 - Blox TM9 (32Ω)
> 2020 - Fiio EM5 (32Ω)
> 2020 - Yincrow RW-2000 (16Ω)


----------



## macunaima (Dec 16, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Sorry man, but this is a bit funny. Don't you have a selection of songs that you like to listen to?
> I don't know if they are good for classical music, but for other genres they probably are.


Actually i enjoy a lot of music i just want music theyre meant to soud their best to have a good idea of what they are capable and what foams go best with them. Edit: by a lot of music i mean i enjoy almost everything (some more than others), basically i dont dont like any music


----------



## furyossa

macunaima said:


> Actually i enjoy a lot of music i just want music theyre meant to soud their best to have a good idea of what they are capable and what foams go best with them. Edit: by a lot of music i mean i enjoy almost everything (some more than others), basically i dont dont like any music


I never suggest not use any foams with earbuds. You can forget about the bass in that case and the treble can be a little overemphasized. In short, the sound is not good and after a while, you will feel discomfort. The foam also protects the earphones from direct exposure to moisture
Always is a good choice to start with "donut" foams. 
If some frequencies are more pronounced than you like, you can "soften" them a bit by using full foams.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32881765999.html (less dense)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32671911259.html (different colors) 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32753761717.html (best quality)


----------



## theresanarc

Looking to try out PeaceEQ files for any of the following earbuds if someone can post them if they have a summary link, I already got the one for the NiceHCK B40:

Qian 39 & 69
Edifier H180 or P190
Yincrow X6
KBear Stellar
Vido regular
Shoonth $25 one


----------



## Sam L (Dec 16, 2020)

macunaima said:


> My BK2 is arriving today or tomorrow, what do you guys recommend to listen with it?


The BK2's stock tuning is relatively decent, none of the common lower mid bloat. They are an excellent bud for classical music, but really can play most any genre well. The only main downside is that they do not EQ well at all. Autoeq's magic is pretty lackluster on these buds, maybe a 17% improvement compared to the 5x improvement on the Monk Lite 120ohm when compensated. I think I posted the wavelet and peq files here or on my thread.

oh, one more thing, the cable alone is worth $15.


----------



## baskingshark

macunaima said:


> My BK2 is arriving today or tomorrow, what do you guys recommend to listen with it?



BK2 does well with most stuff except bass heavy music. Cause it is bass lite and as @Sam L said they don't really take to EQ well.

I usually use it for jazz and classical.


----------



## jao29

How is the fit of the BK2’s? Ive heard that the housings are on the bigger side. For reference, I found the Headroom ms16 pretty uncomfortable, while the mx500 shells suit me fine.


----------



## Sam L (Dec 17, 2020)

theresanarc said:


> Looking to try out PeaceEQ files for any of the following earbuds if someone can post them if they have a summary link, I already got the one for the NiceHCK B40:
> 
> Qian 39 & 69
> Edifier H180 or P190
> ...


I just got the qian 39's. I'll try to measure them and generate some files later tonight.


----------



## Sam L (Dec 17, 2020)

Qian 39 FR Graph


----------



## Sam L

theresanarc said:


> Looking to try out PeaceEQ files for any of the following earbuds if someone can post them if they have a summary link, I already got the one for the NiceHCK B40:
> 
> Qian 39 & 69
> Edifier H180 or P190
> ...


Here you go... Qian 39 compensation files. Let me know in the other thread what you think.


----------



## Sam L

Another supreme value with the Qian 39's, especially given that they take EQ well.


----------



## Sam L (Dec 17, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Another supreme value with the Qian 39's, especially given that they take EQ well.


umm.. ok.... wow... there's actually some legit sub-bass on these. I'm listening with v1.5 bass target. Ridiculous value for $5.99.


----------



## waynes world

Sam L said:


> Another supreme value with the Qian 39's, especially given that they take EQ well.



Time to dust my Qian 39's off I see!


----------



## Sam L (Dec 17, 2020)

waynes world said:


> Time to dust my Qian 39's off I see!


yeah, these are the real deal. I think the bass might be more extended and faster than the Monk Lite 120ohm's on v1.5 bass target. I'm not certain. I have to get it a more critical listen.

**edit**
Yeah, the 39's reach deeper than the Monk 120's compensated with the same target.

***edit***
The 39's compensated have some of the best bass I've heard on an earbud -- good sub-bass extension, really fast, tight bass.


----------



## jogawag

jao29 said:


> How is the fit of the BK2’s? Ive heard that the housings are on the bigger side. For reference, I found the Headroom ms16 pretty uncomfortable, while the mx500 shells suit me fine.


If the mx500 shells suit you fine,  the BK2 shells should suit you fine too.


----------



## Sam L

jogawag said:


> If the mx500 shells suit you fine,  the BK2 shells should suit you fine too.


agreed. the bk2 shell fits pretty compactly in the ear (or at least mine) partly due to the lack of a stem. They feel comparable or maybe a tad smaller in the ear as compared to the mx500 shell for me.


----------



## wskl

rprodrigues said:


> Any sign of the EBX Pro?
> 
> I was told by Nicehck staff that they would be released this 12.12...



It could be released soon but the name may have changed to EBX21, he posted following image on his FB.



Spoiler


----------



## baskingshark

wskl said:


> It could be released soon but the name may have changed to EBX21, he posted following image on his FB.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler



I've not tried the original EBX, was it good?


----------



## wskl

baskingshark said:


> I've not tried the original EBX, was it good?



Same, I never tried it but it was well received by others, I think it was upper mid-tier level.


----------



## furyossa

wskl said:


> It could be released soon but the name may have changed to EBX21, he posted following image on his FB.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


I like it already 
I don't think they will look exactly like this because NickHCK usually uses better cables for their own flagships


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> I've not tried the original EBX, was it good?


V-shape sound, strong build quality, I don't like mmcx sockets. They use the same connectors as the first edition of ST-10 before the change them.


----------



## chaiyuta

Rose Maria II is very interesting. there are 2 size. The 16 mm size is my sweet spot.


----------



## furyossa

wskl said:


> Same, I never tried it but it was well received by others, I think it was upper mid-tier level.


I don’t know why everyone says they are upper mid-centric. I remember buying my model a month after it came out. For me, they are more mid-bass centric with slightly recessed mids and the treble is really decent. EBX can rank easily with earbuds in the price range of $50-$100


----------



## Sam L

Here's an interesting one... You'd think that the EQ changes on this bud would sound really different from stock tuning -- not really the case. The changes are subtle and not very pronounced.


----------



## PeterMac

Can I find better earbuds now days than Sennheiser MX985 ?


----------



## Carrow

PeterMac said:


> Can I find better earbuds now days than Sennheiser MX985 ?



If you can even find those because I sure as heck can't.


----------



## snowmind

baskingshark said:


> The Plus version is bassier.
> 
> If u can top up a bit, go for the RY4S 300 ohm version. That one has a more refined and balanced tuning, tighter bass, better technicalities. Though it needs amping due to the 300 ohm impedance.



Thankful for your words. I already have the normal version (RY4S MMCX), and I like it, it seems superior to the RY4S with fixed cable (not yet confirmed). Additionally, I would like to try the sound signature of the Plus version. I ordered a unit. If I had dedicated amplification, I would also do an experiment with the 300 ohm version.

In my honest opinion, the enthusiasm and challenge of the hobby is precisely in the low budget.


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> Here's an interesting one... You'd think that the EQ changes on this bud would sound really different from stock tuning -- not really the case. The changes are subtle and not very pronounced.


Which model it is?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Curious to know if any desktop amps have landed recently that play nicely with ear buds ranging from 16 to 300 ohms?


----------



## Sam L

furyossa said:


> Which model it is?


kbear knight


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> kbear knight


Hmmm...interesting tuning. Correct me if I'm wrong, does the knight use a titanium driver?


----------



## PeterMac

Carrow said:


> If you can even find those because I sure as heck can't.


No, I can't find them anymore  looking for something similar in SQ.


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Curious to know if any desktop amps have landed recently that play nicely with ear buds ranging from 16 to 300 ohms?


Jds Atom
Schiit magni 3+
Topping L30

Or if you can go higher, the Schiit Asgard 3.


----------



## Sam L

furyossa said:


> Hmmm...interesting tuning. Correct me if I'm wrong, does the knight use a titanium driver?


Their aliexpress site says it's bio-composite. So I'm guessing bio-cellulose?


----------



## furyossa (Dec 17, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Their aliexpress site says it's bio-composite. So I'm guessing bio-cellulose?


Yup. You are right. They look like the perfect candidate for the MMCX mod
KBEAR has really good cables in its offer. They could go with MMCX or 2Pin variant from the very beginning.
Maybe they have a Pro version planned soon, who knows
Speaking of connectors, I prefer 2Pin sockets but when it comes to earbuds, it is better to use mmcx sockets because they have the ability to rotate and thus do not pull the cables as much as is the case with a rigid connection with 2pins. In case the cables are worn over the ears then it doesn't matter what type of connector is used


----------



## DBaldock9

baskingshark said:


> I've not tried the original EBX, was it good?



I've got the EBX, and it seems like they reach a bit deeper than even my ST-10s (Gold/Black) (with the oddball 300-Ohm drivers) - but the ST-10s has better Mid-Bass & Midrange. The ST-10s also fits my ears a little more comfortably - wearing both with cables over the ear.


----------



## baskingshark

WoodyLuvr said:


> Curious to know if any desktop amps have landed recently that play nicely with ear buds ranging from 16 to 300 ohms?



My go to is the Topping L30 amp.
It is very neutral and transparent, so no colouring of any frequencies. Dark background, no hiss at all.

What I like about it is that it has 3 gain settings, from -9 dB to 0 dB to +9 dB, so it can drive anything from highly sensitive multi BA all the way to full size power hungry cans and planars. Single ended.

Only issue for me is that it gets a bit warm when used for longer sessions at high gain, but it isn't as hot as tube amps.


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> My go to is the Topping L30 amp.
> It is very neutral and transparent, so no colouring of any frequencies. Dark background, no hiss at all.
> 
> What I like about it is that it has 3 gain settings, from -9 dB to 0 dB to +9 dB, so it can drive anything from highly sensitive multi BA all the way to full size power hungry cans and planars. Single ended.
> ...


For a similar price iFi Zen DAC can be a good choice to consider 
Some random review for L30 https://audiofool.reviews/2020/09/12/topping-l30/


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> Jds Atom
> Schiit magni 3+
> Topping L30
> Or if you can go higher, the Schiit Asgard 3.





baskingshark said:


> My go to is the Topping L30 amp.





furyossa said:


> For a similar price iFi Zen DAC can be a good choice to consider
> Some random review for L30 https://audiofool.reviews/2020/09/12/topping-l30/


I had seriously considered the Topping L30... patiently awaited it's arrival but was disappointed with the volume knob & control (I am rather picky in that regard). The same issue with the Topping A50s and the A90 as well. I have been leaning towards the Schiit Asgard 3... very powerful and I liked the volume control. I'll need to track down a iFi Zen to test. Thank you.


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> I had seriously considered the Topping L30... patiently awaited it's arrival but was disappointed with the volume knob & control (I am rather picky in that regard). The same issue with the Topping A50s and the A90 as well. I have been leaning towards the Schiit Asgard 3... very powerful and I liked the volume control. I'll need to track down a iFi Zen to test. Thank you.


I have one on the way (Asgard 3). Definitely looking forward to it. Tons of power and the build quality looks excellent.


----------



## macunaima

Bk2 arrived, liked its sound i was really expecting more noticed a slight hiss on the background but im sure thats my dac, but the fit is just godlike, they fit so well in my ears


----------



## macunaima

macunaima said:


> Bk2 arrived, liked its sound i was really expecting more noticed a slight hiss on the background but im sure thats my dac, but the fit is just godlike, they fit so well in my ears


I dont feel like theyre natural, the vocals i heared with them have something that i cant tell, like a metallic hint thats not very enjoyable, the sound is very light lacks power on the notes, liked the imaging the soundstage i average at best, the cable is very nice, loved the pouch, the foam tips i didnt even touched because i have the ones i like better, overall after 30 minutes listening to them id give a 7/10


----------



## furyossa

macunaima said:


> I dont feel like theyre natural, the vocals i heared with them have something that i cant tell, like a metallic hint thats not very enjoyable, the sound is very light lacks power on the notes, liked the imaging the soundstage i average at best, the cable is very nice, loved the pouch, the foam tips i didnt even touched because i have the ones i like better, overall after 30 minutes listening to them id give a 7/10


Be patient. Give them some time.
Let some music pass through and "shake" them up


----------



## macunaima

furyossa said:


> Be patient. Give them some time.
> Let some music pass through and "shake" them up


Hope they grow on me over time, loved the fit so much


----------



## macunaima (Dec 18, 2020)

macunaima said:


> Hope they grow on me over time, loved the fit so much


For example i used to find the smabat st-10 not that good when i first listened to them but now, i fcking love them, my favorite earbuds, just had to change that cable, these made me a believer of burn in because it really changed, they were really harsh when i first listened to them


----------



## jogawag

macunaima said:


> For example i used to find the smabat st-10 not that good when i first listened to them but now, i fcking love them, my favorite earbuds, just had to change that cable, these made me a believer of burn in because it really changed, they were really harsh when i first listened to them


The BK2 has a treble-centric sound signature, with a peak at 12 kHz.
So to cover these, I used double foam (donut foam on full foam). I also switched from the included Silver Plated cable to the cheaper Single Crystal Copper cable below for more bass power.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32977455076.html
I hope this helps.


----------



## Sam L (Dec 18, 2020)

macunaima said:


> Hope they grow on me over time, loved the fit so much


Yeah as jogawag mentioned there's a pronounced 12k spike and sadly they don't eq well. I have some compensation files up either on this thread and/or the earbud test curve thread.

I'll try again to fix things on the bk2 and post results later.


----------



## Nool

Haven't posted in a while, I just got the Yincrow x6, as well as NSC 'clear' buds (https://h5.aliexpress.com/item/4000808625788.html) that vygas recommended which are pretty good. Also got the rw-9 which is currently stuck in USPS covid purgatory.

Bk2 still has the best neutral tuning imo. Yincrow x6 definitely has the "fun" tuning down with a well-executed bass boost, though the resolution could be better. Should also note the subbass is still pretty weak, as is the case with most buds. The NSC clear are somewhere in between, good timbre with a very slight bass boost, also seems to be a bit more airy. Bouncing between it and the bk2, not sure which I prefer. They're all pretty good.


----------



## macunaima (Dec 19, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Yeah as jogawag mentioned there's a pronounced 12k spike and sadly they don't eq well. I have some compensation files up either on this thread and/or the earbud test curve thread.
> 
> I'll try again to fix things on the bk2 and post results later.


Ive tested your file and it didnt sound right, not because of your compensation but because they really are not good with eq, i loved the nameless one btw, i forgot to comment on your post


----------



## Sam L

macunaima said:


> Ive tested your file and it didnt sound right, not because of your compensation but because they really are not good with eq, i loved the nameless one btw, i forgot to comment on your post


Yeah, I think I'm going to recommend keeping the bk2 at stock tuning, no eq. They fall apart with eq and on some sources distort easily. I still use my wavelet file on them at 40% though.

A completely opposite experience with the Datura Pro's I just got in today. These transform into an incredible bud after eq. I think they are currently at the top of my list of best compensated buds. It's not just the sound that improves. The soundstage comes alive after compensation.


----------



## macunaima

Sam L said:


> Yeah, I think I'm going to recommend keeping the bk2 at stock tuning, no eq. They fall apart with eq and on some sources distort easily. I still use my wavelet file on them at 40% though.
> 
> A completely opposite experience with the Datura Pro's I just got in today. These transform into an incredible bud after eq. I think they are currently at the top of my list of best compensated buds. It's not just the sound that improves. The soundstage comes alive after compensation.


how does the datura pro sound? they look interesting, would love an earbud with a very good soundstage


----------



## Sam L

macunaima said:


> how does the datura pro sound? they look interesting, would love an earbud with a very good soundstage


I'm still going through my library. The datura pro sound terrible with stock tuning - lower mid bloat and a congested sound overall. Out of the box they sound like $5 buds with good build quality. Compensated they sound... I don't even know what price to put on it because if they were $200 and sounded like they do with v1.5 bass target, I wouldn't be disappointed.


----------



## Sam L (Dec 20, 2020)

ok... still on the Datura Pro's with v1.5 bass target. These are easily one of the most headphone like buds I've ever heard.

Here are my top buds when compensated:

1. Datura Pro
2. Qian 29
3. Rambo II
4. Monk lite 120ohm
5. K's Nameless

Each of these buds literally transform into an entirely different listening experience (for the better.) The Nameless and Qian 39 are amazing because they cost so little and still take EQ well. The Monk Lite is still one of my favorite compensated buds, but for essentially the same price, the Datura Pro is much, much better. The Monk's, even after compensation, have this "sennheiser-like" veil. It's subtle but there. The Datura Pro's are incredibly transparent across the entire spectrum. Bass is fast and deep, with borderline legit sub-bass. Mids are perfectly placed and the upper registers are clean and well extended.

**edit**
I've listened to the Datura Pro's all night and adjust my assessment on the sub-bass response. There's is still roll-off in the sub-bass area but it's nowhere near as bad is it is on default tuning. The mid bass is fast and hits hard when the music calls for it, so much so it almost sounds like sub-bass but the rumble isn't really there and it has become clear to me that there simply isn't enough air being moved in the 20hz-50hz area.


----------



## Sam L

@furyossa pointed out the merits of Aluminum coated drivers, which is what the Datura Pro has. I'm wondering what other buds have a similar driver?


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> @furyossa pointed out the merits of Aluminum coated drivers, which is what the Datura Pro has. I'm wondering what other buds have a similar driver?


No earbuds have an Al driver so far, except for DaturaPro. Meze Rai Solo has advanced "in-house-made"  Al driver but that's another story


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Dec 20, 2020)

Seriously mulling over the newly released *Rose Technics Maria II *so much so that I have now delayed buying the slightly older Simphonio Dragon 3. Any feedback on the Maria 2 would be sincerely appreciated.


----------



## Sam L (Dec 20, 2020)

*Datura Pro owners*

If you use peace/apo or wavelet please try these settings and let me know what you think. If anyone else wants to try EQ on these buds, I'm adding 10 band GEQ settings to this post.

Filter 1: ON PK Fc 31 Hz Gain 6.9 dB Q 1.41
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 62 Hz Gain 4.1 dB Q 1.41
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 125 Hz Gain -4.3 dB Q 1.41
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 250 Hz Gain -6.0 dB Q 1.41
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 500 Hz Gain -3.4 dB Q 1.41
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 1000 Hz Gain 1.7 dB Q 1.41
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 2000 Hz Gain 4.7 dB Q 1.41
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 4000 Hz Gain 0.2 dB Q 1.41
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 8000 Hz Gain 4.7 dB Q 1.41
Filter 10: ON PK Fc 16000 Hz Gain 6.0 dB Q 1.41


----------



## jogawag

WoodyLuvr said:


> Seriously mulling over the newly released *Rose Technics Maria II *so much so that I have now delayed buying the slightly older Simphonio Dragon 3. Any feedback on the Maria 2 would be sincerely appreciated.


This is a previous post... 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16032109


----------



## MelodyMood

chinmie said:


> most bluetooth dacs usually can still make phone calls as they would have built-in mic on them


 I do not want to use Bluetooth at all. And also not additional device. Is there no earbud with C Type Connector? Or how about buying cable and try to upgrade myself? I have never done that but can try that. Or if someone can do, I can pay too.


----------



## MelodyMood

digititus said:


> The 2 other radio transmitters in your phone are outputting much high power. Bluetooth is the least of your worries.


 I doubt that. There are many radiations and frequencies which may be harmful but in case of Bluetooth, you insert it directly into your ear canal which is most harmful. That's why they say keep the phones away especially when you are sleeping as the radiation will harm you in long run. But now people started using even worst way to consume those harmful radiations. How can people be so fool, I am wondering?


----------



## MelodyMood

ShaneyMac said:


> Do you have any proofs for this statement? Any links to scientific researches or medical articles? Or you have empirical evidence for this?
> Just asking...


 There are actually many. Just found this one and it has link to some more other studies: https://www.radiationhealthrisks.com/bluetooth-technology-radiation/


----------



## MelodyMood

chinmie said:


> if that's the case, I'm afraid the options would be limited to this model of earbuds (as far as i know)
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


 That's sad. They are not earbuds. In fact they are even more uncomfortable than in ear ones. I remember using Apple Earbud with 3.5mm Jack cpl of years ago, I could hardly use it for 30-34 min and after that, my ears were in great pain for next many hours.


----------



## MelodyMood

chinmie said:


> if that's the case, I'm afraid the options would be limited to this model of earbuds (as far as i know)
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


 So there is no Earbud like TP16 or Monk+ or EM3 which has C Type cable? Why no one is thinking towards that? Are there C Type cable available that I can upgrade my earbuds? Or if someone can do it and I can pay?


----------



## macunaima

MelodyMood said:


> There are actually many. Just found this one and it has link to some more other studies: https://www.radiationhealthrisks.com/bluetooth-technology-radiation/


i dont think you should care about this mate, you probably consume stuff that will harm you way more in the long term like processed foods, radiation is basically part of our day to day now


----------



## MelodyMood

furyossa said:


> Chitty's Store has some USP-C models. Probably they can change driver or mic at your request
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32999497318.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32950707500.html


 Thanks. Looks good. I can check with them if they can put mic or have any option with mic too. But need many more. Especially the same sound quality of TP16 or others with C Type version.


----------



## MelodyMood

macunaima said:


> i dont think you should care about this mate, you probably consume stuff that will harm you way more in the long term like processed foods, radiation is basically part of our day to day now


 I don't think so. IN the Form of Bluetooth, you are being exposed to harmful radiations directly and ultra close distance. Also, even if there is no harm and they have BT Flat Ear earphones, I will not be comfortable in using that. I will always be worried that they will come out any time and lost. 2nd, if they are not charged, then it will be another big issue. One of my friends lost Apple Earbod with Charges case twice. He paid around $200+ for them each and now going to buy another as no other option.


----------



## furyossa

MelodyMood said:


> I do not want to use Bluetooth at all. And also not additional device. Is there no earbud with C Type Connector? Or how about buying cable and try to upgrade myself? I have never done that but can try that. Or if someone can do, I can pay too.


I already posted a few links for earbuds with type -c cable last time. It's not hard to find this.
Chitty's Store has it and you can ask to build another model 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32950707500.html
If that is not enough for you then buy one of these, cut connectors, and build your own model
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001672630653.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000922173020.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001425269382.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001669984389.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001773741292.html


----------



## MelodyMood

Sam L said:


> *Toneking tp16*
> 
> opened up the tp16 just now. Haven't given them a listen quite yet but I'm already impressed with the value you get at $13. Cable has low memory retention. A welcome nod to quality compared to the cable on the Monk Lite 120ohm. That cable retain all the kinks from packaging for a long time. It will take a while to straighten out. Annoying. I also love that Toneking provides 12 foams, nice touch.


 TP16 is one my favourites. They have very good sound. I am yet to find anything better than that within this range or below $20.


----------



## MelodyMood

furyossa said:


> Fiil CC2 has a very beautiful minimalistic design. They remind me a little of Edifier H190. I like the app but I think there is only a Chinese version
> Not taking into account the quality of the mic, which is far away from decent, I think that TWS earbuds have really improved, in terms of sound quality,
> over the last two years, especially budget models. In many models. We can see more and more advanced drivers such as Ti, Graphene, DLC,
> also many of these have their own apps with great features for additional tuning which is very important IMO.



How is H190? And also P190? I had H180 but lost them. They were Ok. Cable was long and tangled frequently.


----------



## furyossa

MelodyMood said:


> How is H190? And also P190? I had H180 but lost them. They were Ok. Cable was long and tangled frequently.


I don't have H190, I was just comparing the design. Probably not so much difference between H180 and H190 in terms of SQ. Only $2 difference in price.
I will probably pick H190 because of the look and change the cable immediately  But that's me


----------



## chinmie

MelodyMood said:


> So there is no Earbud like TP16 or Monk+ or EM3 which has C Type cable? Why no one is thinking towards that? Are there C Type cable available that I can upgrade my earbuds? Or if someone can do it and I can pay?



i saw a post once from Bengkel Macro (the builder of Edimun earbuds) making Edimun with usb-c




if you're thinking of building one yourself with other earbuds, you can buy the ALC4050 jack (the same as what that Edimun uses) from AliExpress, or maybe search your local stores


----------



## MelodyMood

chinmie said:


> i saw a post once from Bengkel Macro (the builder of Edimun earbuds) making Edimun with usb-c
> 
> 
> 
> if you're thinking of building one yourself with other earbuds, you can buy the ALC4050 jack (the same as what that Edimun uses) from AliExpress, or maybe search your local stores


 Thanks Brother. This is the 2nd one I got today. Not sure how is the  sound quality in comparison to TP16 or Monk+ or EM3 etc. Also, I am not looking for  ALC4050 connector. I am trying to avoid that actually and it will only distort the sound quality + carry additional device and keep inserting it whenever earphone cable is accidentally pulled from the connector.

Best option is to either buy earbuds with C Type Cable or Re-Cable it and put C Type Cable or replace the only 3.5mm connector to C Type. Not sure if that is possible. But  from all these options, only buying is the one which I think is possible as I don't know how to change the cable or replace 3.5mm and put C Type connector.


----------



## MelodyMood

I found this one on AE: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000645749193.html 

But not sure if this will affect the sound quality. I think so. I am wondering if there is C Type Plug which I can use to replace 3.5mm Plug? Means my earphones will be of C Type earphones but without absolutely  zero compromise of the sound quality. Can someone pls guide on this?


----------



## MelodyMood

One more query, I saw many Audio-Technica earbuds on AE now a days? Did anyone try them? How good they are? Are they good in terms of smooth sound and good bass+sub-bass too?


----------



## chinmie

MelodyMood said:


> Thanks Brother. This is the 2nd one I got today. Not sure how is the  sound quality in comparison to TP16 or Monk+ or EM3 etc. Also, I am not looking for  ALC4050 connector. I am trying to avoid that actually and it will only distort the sound quality + carry additional device and keep inserting it whenever earphone cable is accidentally pulled from the connector.
> 
> Best option is to either buy earbuds with C Type Cable or Re-Cable it and put C Type Cable or replace the only 3.5mm connector to C Type. Not sure if that is possible. But  from all these options, only buying is the one which I think is possible as I don't know how to change the cable or replace 3.5mm and put C Type connector.



you can buy just the ALC4050 jack, so you can solder them directly to your own earbuds


you can search for ALC4050 and find many other products like that


----------



## furyossa

chinmie said:


> you can buy just the ALC4050 jack, so you can solder them directly to your own earbuds
> 
> 
> you can search for ALC4050 and find many other products like that


I will not recommend a USB-C jack with some random chips because most of them only support Qualcomm smartphones and for the others or they will not work at all or produce background noise


----------



## chinmie

furyossa said:


> I will not recommend a USB-C jack with some random chips because most of them only support Qualcomm smartphones and for the others or they will not work at all or produce background noise



from the description it uses Realtek chip, which should mean it could support most of phones.


----------



## MelodyMood

chinmie said:


> you can buy just the ALC4050 jack, so you can solder them directly to your own earbuds
> 
> 
> you can search for ALC4050 and find many other products like that


 Any impact on sound? What I read so far and know, sound quality is at poorest with USB C Type. In this connector, it seems it is just to plug rather than solder them? isn't it?


----------



## furyossa (Dec 21, 2020)

chinmie said:


> from the description it uses Realtek chip, which should mean it could support most of phones.


That's what I'm afraid of. Two years ago I bought the Ugreen cables with the same chip for my Huawei Mate10 (Kirin processor) to replace the small and thin dongle cable that came with it.
With Ugreen cable background noise is very pronounced and every time I use cables I get a warning message to use original cables. This is my personal experience. it may not be a problem with other processors, who knows.


----------



## chinmie

MelodyMood said:


> Any impact on sound? What I read so far and know, sound quality is at poorest with USB C Type. In this connector, it seems it is just to plug rather than solder them? isn't it?



can't comment on the sound. it is a solder jack reading by the description. 

it's a compromise that you must decide for yourself I'm afraid.. those small type of usb-c unit (solder or plug in types) would decode the signal, but usually would have really basic amp section. 

me personally i would choose BT units like the BTR5, Qudelix, ES100, etc than direct usb-c solution, because the amp section would usually more robust and better sounding. 

But as you would prefer to avoid them, I'm afraid that kind of usb-c jacks would be the most viable solution


----------



## MelodyMood

chinmie said:


> can't comment on the sound. it is a solder jack reading by the description.
> 
> it's a compromise that you must decide for yourself I'm afraid.. those small type of usb-c unit (solder or plug in types) would decode the signal, but usually would have really basic amp section.
> 
> ...


It seems that USB C Type plug or the jack you mentioned has very bad impact on sound quality and as mentioned by furyossa, some issue with background noise etc. too. I guess it will be better if I just upgrade to S10/S10+ and wait for next few years to see if some phone better than S10 comes up which has 3.5mm Jack. If I am understanding correct, USB C Type plug are not 100% compatible with phone calls and also impact the sound quality too. Is that right?


----------



## MelodyMood

furyossa said:


> That's what I'm afraid of. Two years ago I bought the Ugreen cables with the same chip for my Huawei Mate10 (Kirin processor) to replace the small and thin dongle cable
> that came with it. With Ugreen cable background noise is very pronounced and every time I use cables I get a warning message to use original cables.
> This is my personal experience. it may not be a problem with other processors, who knows.


 By reading your post, it seems  that USB C type is not good for phone calls as well as for music/sound. It is only good for charging the phone it seems. Very poor decision by these bogus phone companies to remove 3.5mm jack, They should be sued and closed down completely for doing that.


----------



## furyossa

MelodyMood said:


> By reading your post, it seems  that USB C type is not good for phone calls as well as for music/sound. It is only good for charging the phone it seems. Very poor decision by these bogus phone companies to remove 3.5mm jack, They should be sued and closed down completely for doing that.


No I said that for a cheap one with Realtek chip. You have also dongle cables with quality DAC chip. Your S10 has a Qualcomm processor so this will work
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/hidizs-sonata-hd-dac-cable.23421/reviews#item-review-21160
U can use it also with a PC/Laptop. These cables consume a little more battery, but you have better sound and support for 3.5mm plug.


----------



## MelodyMood

furyossa said:


> No I said that for a cheap one with Realtek chip. You have also dongle cables with quality DAC chip. Your S10 has a Qualcomm processor so this will work
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/hidizs-sonata-hd-dac-cable.23421/reviews#item-review-21160
> U can use it also with a PC/Laptop. These cables consume a little more battery, but you have better sound and support for 3.5mm plug.


 With S10 or S10+, I do not need it as these phone has 3.5mm Jack already. And most likely I will go for that only. But in case if I buy any other phone like S20 or something else, then they don't have 3.5mm jack and then only all problem starts.


----------



## MelodyMood

furyossa said:


> No I said that for a cheap one with Realtek chip. You have also dongle cables with quality DAC chip. Your S10 has a Qualcomm processor so this will work
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/hidizs-sonata-hd-dac-cable.23421/reviews#item-review-21160
> U can use it also with a PC/Laptop. These cables consume a little more battery, but you have better sound and support for 3.5mm plug.


 With these kind of plug, I will need to insert my 3.5mm plug into one side of the DAC. The issue is that it will be additional device to carry or I need to buy 10 DAC for 10 earphones and that too if they fit so tight that cannot be removed easily. Otherwise every now and then they will be lost. I want some permanent solution for this actually. Is there any DAC is similar to one I shown and can be fit like permanently into my 3.5mm Earbuds? 


Something like this one but with DAC and very strong fit that it looks like it is permanent fix for my 3.5mm earbud:  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000645749193.html


----------



## WoodyLuvr

WoodyLuvr said:


> Seriously mulling over the newly released *Rose Technics Maria II *so much so that I have now delayed buying the slightly older Simphonio Dragon 3. Any feedback on the Maria 2 would be sincerely appreciated.





jogawag said:


> This is a previous post...
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16032109


*@jogawag*  Thank you for the response and helpful link   

I received the following and very informative reply from* @ClieOS*

_Got my Maria II the same way as with all my Rose Technics' earbuds - by buying them directly from Rose Technics' official Taobao store in China and have it forwarded to my country. It is part of the first batch of pre-order, which I think there are less than 50 made.You can probably ask Penon if they will carry Maria II as I know Penon has a pretty close business relationship with Rose Technics. One thing to note before ordering is that there are two version of Maria II - one with 14.8mm nozzle size (same size as original Maria and Mojito) and one with 16mm nozzle side (similar to that of MX500 shell). Both version sound exactly the same and the nozzle size only affects the fit. For most people, 16mm is probably going to be the better choice but I ordered the 14.8mm myself (as I have found a way to get them to fit me perfectly with Maria and Mojito)._
_
As for sound - think of it with a sound signature between D2+ and D3 - bright and very well extended treble, somewhat warm on the mid range, good deep punching but moderate low-end with a super massive soundstage. Listening to it pretty much equal to listening a miniature open back on-ear rather than an earbud.because of how 'out-of-the-ear' it sounds, even wider than the original Maria and definitely the widest sounding earbud in the market.

Sensitivity: 104 dB_
_Impedance: 14 ohm_

https://world.taobao.com/item/630980284783.htm?spm=a21wu.11804641-tw.0.0.467d4c64RyeKuZ


----------



## furyossa

MelodyMood said:


> With S10 or S10+, I do not need it as these phone has 3.5mm Jack already. And most likely I will go for that only. But in case if I buy any other phone like S20 or something else, then they don't have 3.5mm jack and then only all problem starts.


Not really. LG "V" and "G" series use similar DAC chips like previously mentioned HiFi dongles. Sony also has a good DAC chip. Both company still uses 3.5mm output.
For other smartphones integrated sound solutions are not as good as these dongles. So if you want to use your phone as "DAP" device the cheapest solution is dongle and the best will be BT DAC/AMP, which you do not want to consider, or DAC/AMP device with an internal battery (Fiio Q3, iFi Hip DAC, etc)


----------



## MelodyMood (Dec 21, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Not really. LG "V" and "G" series use similar DAC chips like previously mentioned HiFi dongles. Sony also has a good DAC chip. Both company still uses 3.5mm output.
> For other smartphones integrated sound solutions are not as good as these dongles. So if you want to use your phone as "DAP" device the cheapest solution is dongle and the best will be BT DAC/AMP, which you do not want to consider, or DAC/AMP device with an internal battery (Fiio Q3, iFi Hip DAC, etc)


 I actually heard about that. LG and Sony has much better sound quality. I guess due to these in-built DAC. I am waiting for LG V70 or G9 series actually. Sony Xperia 5 II is good and tick all boxes except one which is that it has 3.5mm port on Top of the phone which is awkward in my view. Also, Sony phones are not sold in my country 

Also, it seems V70 will be too heavy and big to actually carry on day to day basis. Let's see.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

*@ClieOS *had this also to share:

_Rose (Technics) has another earbud that will be released soonish. It is called *Maxim* and probably will serve as their 2nd flagship model._

_Here is the prototype:_


----------



## frix

hi guys, I have been long out of the earbud game. My last earbuds were yuin pk3 and sennheiser mx980. I really liked both until they broke down.
What's your recommendation for sub $100. Whats your opinion on the fiio em5, worth it?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

frix said:


> hi guys, I have been long out of the earbud game. My last earbuds were yuin pk3 and sennheiser mx980. I really liked both until they broke down.
> What's your recommendation for sub $100. Whats your opinion on the fiio em5, worth it?


You couldn't go wrong with either the the NICEHCK Audio B40 or NICEHCK Audio ME80... both punch well above their price points nearly entering god tier. You will be pleasantly surprised how far earbuds have come


----------



## Sam L

MelodyMood said:


> Any impact on sound? What I read so far and know, sound quality is at poorest with USB C Type. In this connector, it seems it is just to plug rather than solder them? isn't it?


why not just get a sonata dongle dac? The non HD version can be firmware swapped to enable mic use


----------



## gordonderp

Hey guys been using the ME80 and really enjoying them. I EQd them to have a lil more sub-bass which I find a lot of earbuds lack and have been really enjoying these. Unforunately I damaged the cable on these and now I need to the headphone wiggle for them to work properly. 

Just wondering if you guys have any reccomendations for similar earbuds to the ME80 with a nicer cable, otherwise I'll just buy another pair of ME80s.


----------



## RikudouGoku

gordonderp said:


> Hey guys been using the ME80 and really enjoying them. I EQd them to have a lil more sub-bass which I find a lot of earbuds lack and have been really enjoying these. Unforunately I damaged the cable on these and now I need to the headphone wiggle for them to work properly.
> 
> Just wondering if you guys have any reccomendations for similar earbuds to the ME80 with a nicer cable, otherwise I'll just buy another pair of ME80s.


The ME80 is discontinued now so if you want another one, best to get one sooner than later.

If you want more sub-bass (bass overall) I recommend the Yincrow X6.


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> why not just get a sonata dongle dac? The non HD version can be firmware swapped to enable mic use


Also, SonataHD uses 3 types of firmware, one or two of them have support for the mic. but the installation is inconvenient


----------



## sebek

Yincrow X6 is very bass oriented, for a different and complementary signature in the same price range what can you get?


----------



## jogawag (Dec 21, 2020)

gordonderp said:


> Hey guys been using the ME80 and really enjoying them. I EQd them to have a lil more sub-bass which I find a lot of earbuds lack and have been really enjoying these. Unforunately I damaged the cable on these and now I need to the headphone wiggle for them to work properly.
> 
> Just wondering if you guys have any reccomendations for similar earbuds to the ME80 with a nicer cable, otherwise I'll just buy another pair of ME80s.


For those of you who are increasing the sub-bass with EQ on the ME80 and damaged the cable, I recommend the Yincrow RW-9, which has a more sub-bass and a braided cable.
However, both the ME80 and the Yincrow RW-9 have been discontinued, so it might be a good idea to buy both soon.

Edit:
ME80 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33041694447.html
RW-9 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32869530104.html


----------



## RikudouGoku

sebek said:


> Yincrow X6 is very bass oriented, for a different and complementary signature in the same price range what can you get?


NiceHCK MX500
NiceHCK ME80
Yincrow X6

Those are my 3 recs.


----------



## Sam L

gordonderp said:


> Hey guys been using the ME80 and really enjoying them. I EQd them to have a lil more sub-bass which I find a lot of earbuds lack and have been really enjoying these. Unforunately I damaged the cable on these and now I need to the headphone wiggle for them to work properly.
> 
> Just wondering if you guys have any reccomendations for similar earbuds to the ME80 with a nicer cable, otherwise I'll just buy another pair of ME80s.


sadly, the me80 has been discontinued. If you search the thread, @RikudouGoku posted a couple times a link to amazon japan. The me80 is also one of my favorite earbuds. If you want a upgrade that costs $26, get the Datura Pro and compensate them with one of my wavelet or peace/apo files. I also put up 10 band eq settings as well.


----------



## MelodyMood

WoodyLuvr said:


> You couldn't go wrong with either the the NICEHCK Audio B40 or NICEHCK Audio ME80... both punch well above their price points nearly entering god tier. You will be pleasantly surprised how far earbuds have come


 B40 is crap. He sent me that as Surpsised release (or something) and I did not like that. There is no Bass at all. Very thin sounding. Cable is also not that great. It costed me around 15-16 AUD but not worth even 5 AUD.


----------



## MelodyMood (Dec 21, 2020)

frix said:


> hi guys, I have been long out of the earbud game. My last earbuds were yuin pk3 and sennheiser mx980. I really liked both until they broke down.
> What's your recommendation for sub $100. Whats your opinion on the fiio em5, worth it?


 Go with TP16. You would love that.


----------



## MelodyMood

gordonderp said:


> Hey guys been using the ME80 and really enjoying them. I EQd them to have a lil more sub-bass which I find a lot of earbuds lack and have been really enjoying these. Unforunately I damaged the cable on these and now I need to the headphone wiggle for them to work properly.
> 
> Just wondering if you guys have any reccomendations for similar earbuds to the ME80 with a nicer cable, otherwise I'll just buy another pair of ME80s.


 I cannot see ME80 anywhere on AE. Do you have link pls? Like to see that and if there is any review, even good. But hope it is not very expensive.


----------



## baskingshark

MelodyMood said:


> I cannot see ME80 anywhere on AE. Do you have link pls? Like to see that and if there is any review, even good. But hope it is not very expensive.



ME80 has sadly been discontinued from production. Your best bet is to find it on some places like Amazon or other sites.


----------



## MelodyMood

Any Metal Earbuds which has slightly better sound quality than TP16 or different sound which is smooth with some sub-bass too?


----------



## baskingshark

MelodyMood said:


> Any Metal Earbuds which has slightly better sound quality than TP16 or different sound which is smooth with some sub-bass too?



Not many earbuds have good subbass extension/quantity, it is sort of a general weakness of earbuds due to the lack of seal/isolation.

U can check out the SMABAT ST10 (regular) or SMABAT ST10S Black Gold, they are my go to for good subbass extension/quantity in a earbud. The Black Gold needs amping though. They are made of metal too.


----------



## macunaima

baskingshark said:


> Not many earbuds have good subbass extension/quantity, it is sort of a general weakness of earbuds due to the lack of seal/isolation.
> 
> U can check out the SMABAT ST10 (regular) or SMABAT ST10S Black Gold, they are my go to for good subbass extension/quantity in a earbud. The Black Gold needs amping though. They are made of metal too.


The st-10 is a great one just dont forget to buy foam covers and a decent cable because the stock cable is not good


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Dec 22, 2020)

macunaima said:


> The st-10 is a great one just dont forget to buy foam covers and a decent cable because the stock cable is not good


Is there a cable that you would recommend?


----------



## sutosuto

baskingshark said:


> SMABAT ST10S Black Gold


Seeing the Smabat st10s B/G got good words, am thinking to get one if price is less than $100. Anyone know how much it cost during the sales? The current price is still above $100.


----------



## jogawag

sutosuto said:


> Seeing the Smabat st10s B/G got good words, am thinking to get one if price is less than $100. Anyone know how much it cost during the sales? The current price is still above $100.


The current price of SMABAT ST10S Black Gold seems under $100 at this store.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001864177637.html


----------



## sutosuto

jogawag said:


> The current price of SMABAT ST10S Black Gold seems under $100 at this store.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001864177637.html


Thank you @jogawag , any idea what the price during the sales is?
I am not in rush to get one but if above price is same as the discounted price during the 11.11 or BF then why not.

Thanks


----------



## jogawag (Dec 22, 2020)

sutosuto said:


> Thank you @jogawag , any idea what the price during the sales is?
> I am not in rush to get one but if above price is same as the discounted price during the 11.11 or BF then why not.
> 
> Thanks


I don't know why it's cheap.
Why don't you ask the store directly why?


----------



## sutosuto

jogawag said:


> I don't know why it's so cheap.
> Why don't you ask the store directly why?


Hahaha it is better not to ask because probably they forget to remove the promo price. I notice this store has the same item listed but more expensive


----------



## baskingshark

sutosuto said:


> Seeing the Smabat st10s B/G got good words, am thinking to get one if price is less than $100. Anyone know how much it cost during the sales? The current price is still above $100.



I recall seeing the black gold at $86 usd or so during 11/11 Aliexpress sales. But that was with stacking a lot of coupons. Just wait for a good price at the next sale, there's always Aliexpress sales year round and audio stuff tends to depreciate in price generally with time.

FWIW, I bought mine from a second hand shop locally at $60 usd.


----------



## sutosuto

Thanks @baskingshark


----------



## macunaima (Dec 22, 2020)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Is there a cable that you would recommend?


Kbear 16 core, i dont know if they have it in mmcx connectors but i think they do, rrally well behaved and very pretty cable


----------



## furyossa

macunaima said:


> Kbear 16 core, i dont know if they have it in mmcx connectors but i think they do, rrally well behaved and very pretty cable


Most of the Kbear cables have multiple sockets and plug options https://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/Cable/119089_508488031.html


----------



## macunaima

macunaima said:


> Kbear 16 core, i dont know if they have it in mmcx connectors but i think they do, rrally well behaved and very pretty cable


I have this one  Ak kbear 16 núcleo atualizado prata chapeado cabo de cobre 2.5/3.5/4.4mm com conector mmcx/2pin/qdc tfz para kz zs10 zsn pro as16 zsx|Fones de ouvido| - AliExpress  and i love this cable, really good build quality for the price


----------



## furyossa (Dec 22, 2020)

macunaima said:


> I have this one  Ak kbear 16 núcleo atualizado prata chapeado cabo de cobre 2.5/3.5/4.4mm com conector mmcx/2pin/qdc tfz para kz zs10 zsn pro as16 zsx|Fones de ouvido| - AliExpress  and i love this cable, really good build quality for the price


Sure, these 16core cables look nice, the braids are very well done. I own a couple of NiceHCK and Yinyooo 16core balanced cables.
I look more at these cables as a decoration, mostly for IEM. For buds, I do not recommend this, especially for models like PK or MX500, where the cables are not worn over the ears. Also, It's difficult to notice a difference in sound at all, and weight is also a big problem. I rather prefer 4 or 6 cores. This 6 core is the softest cable I have in my collection.

Speaking of decoration, Xiaofan cables are probably the most prestigious on Ali. 💎
Of course, we should not forget probably "the best" combo on Ali so far xiaofan Ortiz 8 & TRN VX Gpld 🥇


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

Anyone here tried the Cyphereus Red Dragons?


----------



## macunaima

furyossa said:


> Sure, these 16core cables look nice, the braids are very well done. I own a couple of NiceHCK and Yinyooo 16core balanced cables.
> I look more at these cables as a decoration, mostly for IEM. For buds, I do not recommend this, especially for models like PK or MX500, where the cables are not worn over the ears. Also, It's difficult to notice a difference in sound at all, and weight is also a big problem. I rather prefer 4 or 6 cores. This 6 core is the softest cable I have in my collection.
> 
> Speaking of decoration, Xiaofan cables are probably the most prestigious on Ali. 💎
> Of course, we should not forget probably "the best" combo on Ali so far xiaofan Ortiz 8 & TRN VX Gpld 🥇


I like their fit on iems and on over ear style buds like the st-10, i can really understand why they wouldnt be good for buds mx500 style fit, the weight is truly a concern and in time they would probably break in this case


----------



## furyossa

macunaima said:


> I like their fit on iems and on over ear style buds like the st-10, i can really understand why they wouldnt be good for buds mx500 style fit, the weight is truly a concern and in time they would probably break in this case


Exactly, it's really not necessary to add any weight because it is still difficult to achieve a good seal with earbuds


----------



## Blackwolf14

My TMusic Beryllium is arrived yesterday. I like them.


----------



## usergate (Dec 22, 2020)

sutosuto said:


> Seeing the Smabat st10s B/G got good words, am thinking to get one if price is less than $100. Anyone know how much it cost during the sales? The current price is still above $100.


Good sellers with a coupon gave 11-11 away for $ 85-90.  I bought  Smabat silver for $ 51 and gold drivers separately for $ 7.  10 minutes of work if you can hold a soldering iron in your hands.


----------



## furyossa

Blackwolf14 said:


> My TMusic Beryllium is arrived yesterday. I like them.


The wood is reminiscent of chocolate and the cables are reminiscent of caramel. Yum Yum  
I didn't know about the 32ohm beryllium edition. Is this your model?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001589119116.html


----------



## furyossa

usergate said:


> Good sellers with a coupon gave 11-11 away for $ 85-90.  I bought  Smabat silver for $ 51 and gold drivers separately for $ 7.  10 minutes of work if you can hold a soldering iron in your hands.


Do you know which type of driver uses "silver" and "gold"?


----------



## rkw

Tayyab Pirzada said:


> Anyone here tried the Cyphereus Red Dragons?


They are custom made and only a few in existence. @Danneq has one:



Danneq said:


> Nope, I've owned Red Dragon for over 1 year but it was just about 2 weeks ago I got to know what full sized head phones they were tuned to resemble. It goes without saying that they easily blow away every single other earbud I've heard. You can check my profile to check all of the earbuds I own or have owned. Still I keep trying new ones out. It's a wonderful hobby/addiction.
> 
> I don't know how Herry of Cypherus does it, if he's a magician at tuning earbuds or if he sprinkles pixie dust on the drivers, but my Red Dragon really do sound like full size headphones. It's almost a bit strange that you get a headphone sound without feeling the pressure of the pads on your ears.
> 
> Edit: And the person who orders the Red Dragon can ask to have them tuned to resemble a pair of full size headphones. It's not really a line of earbuds like the other Cypherus earbuds such as CampFred, ZoomFred or CAX Black or White CampFred.


----------



## Blackwolf14 (Dec 22, 2020)

furyossa said:


> The wood is reminiscent of chocolate and the cables are reminiscent of caramel. Yum Yum
> I didn't know about the 32ohm beryllium edition. Is this your model?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001589119116.html


Yep, this one's mine. By the way, there are a little glue on the buds but I don't mind.


----------



## gordonderp

Thanks for the advice guys I think I may gotten the last pair of ME80s a few days ago when I ordered lol


----------



## davidmolliere

So I have had the chance to review Rose Maria and here is my take on it : https://iem.reviews/2020/12/15/rose-maria/





Rose Technics obviously chose to tune it very differently from the typical earbud and if you’re looking for a clear, bright and vibrant earbud with a lot of bite, superb soundstage with great separation and air and impressive resolution as well as fast and clean bass then the Rose Maria is an earbud you want to look at


----------



## macunaima

Yeah guys my journey with the Bk2 ended today, i ended up giving them to my brother becuse they really were not for me, i kept the cable and the case though, gave him with the cable that came with my st-10 hehe. For my 2021 im aiming to venture myself more on the iem and open backs world will probably not aquire any earbud for a while, aiming for the dunu sa6(iem) and a sennheiser open back, probably the hd6xx or the hd660


----------



## usergate (Dec 23, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Do you know which type of driver uses "silver" and "gold"?


For me, the main thing here is that the cases are the same, except for the gold stripe. Oddly, though, Smabat was selling them 11-11 for $ 8, excluding coupons. And the drivers fit perfectly into the "silver" case.  What can not be said about the "installation" in the ears. The earsbuds are big, not for all ears.


----------



## mochill

Newbsound 32ohm @irv003 , these are reincarnation forge the blox tm9 for cheap 😁


----------



## furyossa

For anyone looking for a good low-end, clean mids and a huge soundstage, *Superlux HD381* series are a great candidate for an Oscar. This 10-year-old buds still can be found in some music stores. IMHO, these models are the something closest between IEM and headphones when it comes to sound., but because of their open design (on the front of the lid), they look a lot like earbuds,  better said IEB (in-ear buds)


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Dec 24, 2020)

furyossa said:


> For anyone looking for a good low-end, clean mids and a huge soundstage, *Superlux HD381* series are a great candidate for an Oscar. This 10-year-old buds still can be found in some music stores. IMHO, these models are the something closest between IEM and headphones when it comes to sound., but because of their open design (on the front of the lid), *they look a lot like earbuds*,  better said IEB (in-ear buds)


Pretender! Sacrilege! Heretic! Burn the inner-ear lover!


----------



## wskl

Sharing a link which was posted in the EA group.

S****R PT2021 - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001936404216.html



Spoiler


----------



## baskingshark

wskl said:


> Sharing a link which was posted in the EA group.
> 
> S****R PT2021 - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001936404216.html
> 
> ...



Very interesting tech:  Tungsten Plated Diaphragm 

Haven't seen that before!


----------



## viktor3000

Guys want to buy yincrow rw2000. Will there be a big increase in comparison with k's K300? I like the layered bass and good mids like in the k's K300. Would an acquisition of 2000 be justified or something else to look at? The main thing is that there are no protrusions at the low-high-frequency junction as in veridis, and a bulging middle as in penon bs1. So what headphones to choose similar to k's K300. Player ibasso dx 160 ....


----------



## davidmolliere

baskingshark said:


> Very interesting tech:  Tungsten Plated Diaphragm
> Haven't seen that before!



Rose Maria mids and high driver is tungsten plated, took 400 hours to burn in btw


----------



## povidlo

davidmolliere said:


> Rose Maria mids and high driver is tungsten plated, took 400 hours to burn in btw


I am still burning mine in...FML.

Interesting that you like them worn over ear. Not for me. Best fit has been cable down, using combo of a silicone ring and two full foamies on each bud.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Dec 24, 2020)

MelodyMood said:


> B40 is crap. He sent me that as Surpsised release (or something) and I did not like that. There is no Bass at all. Very thin sounding. Cable is also not that great. It costed me around 15-16 AUD but not worth even 5 AUD.


B40 is one of those earbuds where "fit is everything". It truly needs to be perfect (proper fit) for the bass to come out and play. Did you try different foam types and thicknesses? Many have had luck with double foaming (using thin types) or a donut foam on top of a full foam... you might try that and see if that "thin sound" is solved  . They were a tad frustrating (disappointing) for me as well until I figured the fit out. Cheers.


----------



## furyossa

wskl said:


> Sharing a link which was posted in the EA group.
> 
> S****R PT2021 - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001936404216.html
> 
> ...


This is a different concept then EM5 ... hmmm... BTW....looks nice and the price is not so bad.
About tungsten ... I don't know what impact it has on driver performance. It's often used for professional darts barrels due to twice the density (and weight) than brass.
It is a very strange feeling when you hold a dart that is very thin and has a lot of weight in relation to the size.
Congrats S.e.n.f.e.r. This is the right way to start the new 2021 year


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 25, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Seriously mulling over the newly released *Rose Technics Maria II *so much so that I have now delayed buying the slightly older Simphonio Dragon 3. Any feedback on the Maria 2 would be sincerely appreciated.


With kind patience and sound expertise from @ClieOS I narrowed my TOTL Ear Bud list down to the Rose Technics Maria II; Simphonio Dragon 3; and the **** Audio Turandot. Ended up ordering a pair of ***** Audio Turandot 2.5mm Balanced* earbuds. Now the wait begins .


----------



## furyossa (Dec 24, 2020)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Pretender! Sacrilege! Heretic! Burn the inner-ear lover!





WoodyLuvr said:


> B40 is one of those earbuds where "fit is everything". It truly needs to be perfect (proper fit) for the bass to come out in play. Did you try different foam types and thicknesses? Many have had luck with double foaming (using thin types) or a donut foam on top of a full foam... you might try that and see if that "thin sound" is solved . They were a tad frustrating (disappointing) for me as well until I figured the fit out. Cheers.


That's why I suggest HD381 Just kidding 
We all love PK shells because of their fit and their appearance is in 2nd place. These shells are designed for 14.2mm and 14.8mm drivers and not for > 15mm.
I often see non-standard sizes of MX500 shells on Ali. This is a big problem if you are dealing with it DIY stuffs. We have damaged several drivers because of this.


----------



## mochill

povidlo said:


> I am still burning mine in...FML.
> 
> Interesting that you like them worn over ear. Not for me. Best fit has been cable down, using combo of a silicone ring and two full foamies on each bud.


Im guessing 1khr minimum


----------



## jogawag (Dec 24, 2020)

viktor3000 said:


> Guys want to buy yincrow rw2000. Will there be a big increase in comparison with k's K300? I like the layered bass and good mids like in the k's K300. Would an acquisition of 2000 be justified or something else to look at? The main thing is that there are no protrusions at the low-high-frequency junction as in veridis, and a bulging middle as in penon bs1. So what headphones to choose similar to k's K300. Player ibasso dx 160 ....


Telling about sound of the Yincrow rw-2000.
・Harmonious high resolution sound.
・The bass has weight, and the mid-high range has a sense of transparency.
・A wide and airy sound stage.
・Impressive female vocal.

I do not have the K's earphone, so I can not compare.

I feel that there are no protrusions at the low-high-frequency junction, and a flatter middle than in Penon BS1.


----------



## jogawag

furyossa said:


> ...
> I often see non-standard sizes of MX500 shells on Ali. This is a big problem if you are dealing with it DIY stuffs. We have damaged several drivers because of this.


Please tell me what MX500 type earbuds product is non-standard sizes of MX500 shells on Ali.


----------



## furyossa (Dec 24, 2020)

jogawag said:


> Please tell me what MX500 type earbuds product is non-standard sizes of MX500 shells on Ali.


Oh, well where to start. Basically 99% of metal shells that I tried, have a smaller diameter at the place where the driver is placed, I will call it "LIP", especially for MX500 drivers.
If you look in mine "inventory" you will find links of some mod's (>>> #1, #2...) where I used a couple of metals shells. All shells require using glue, which I hate,
except shells that I used for DIY 400ohm and 600ohm drivers. These shells require using the file 

@Themilkman46290 reported some problems with "silver" MX500 shells here.
I disassembled this two Tingo TC400 models, the first problem the paint peels off, 2nd problem, LIP not exists. They glued the driver cover directly on the shell.
The OG Tingo shells are made of an alloy of aluminum and plastic and not of cheap recycled plastic and acrylic gold paint.

Also, this type of shells are driver destroyer. I mean these shells and not earbuds. I bought a set of 5 pairs (separate shells and covers without driver)
They have a thin lip that surrounds the entire opening, and it's very difficult to remove it with a file.
Even the original covers can't be fitted and the MX500 covers are even smaller.


----------



## Yurikka

Hello and sorry if i have bad english. I have some earbuds like b40, tingo tc400, emx500s, ry4s mmcx, ... and my favorite is the Tingo TC400 (better than B40 in my opinion) because of the bright + mid/vocals forward audio signature and good instrument separation. TC400 are 10$  but sometime they have a bit of sibilance and it's annoy me. Do you have some recommendations for  a 10 to 50$ bright and vocal forward earbud that can be better than the tingos, i want to listen music with high volume and without sibilance but i don't know if it's possible at this price and with this kind of products that's why i decided to ask here. Sorry again if my english is not good and thank you in advance.


----------



## furyossa

Yurikka said:


> Hello and sorry if i have bad english. I have some earbuds like b40, tingo tc400, emx500s, ry4s mmcx, ... and my favorite is the Tingo TC400 (better than B40 in my opinion) because of the bright + mid/vocals forward audio signature and good instrument separation. TC400 are 10$  but sometime they have a bit of sibilance and it's annoy me. Do you have some recommendations for  a 10 to 50$ bright and vocal forward earbud that can be better than the tingos, i want to listen music with high volume and without sibilance but i don't know if it's possible at this price and with this kind of products that's why i decided to ask here. Sorry again if my english is not good and thank you in advance.


Tingo TC400 buds from Ali have below the average sound quality compared to TC200, TC300, TG-38s. I don't have TC300, TC200 is fine and TG-38s are the best in Tingo lineup. TG-38s has better sub-bass and details, you can hear slight sibilance in some songs, but if the songs themselves are prone to that, 
otherwise, they have very nice tuning but not too much forward mids, also cable is better than TC200. 
ShoonTH ESEP-01BL buds have fast bass, forward mids, wide sounstage and above average imaging.
YINCROW X6 and RW-9 are good buds also.


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 24, 2020)

Yurikka said:


> Hello and sorry if i have bad english. I have some earbuds like b40, tingo tc400, emx500s, ry4s mmcx, ... and my favorite is the Tingo TC400 (better than B40 in my opinion) because of the bright + mid/vocals forward audio signature and good instrument separation. TC400 are 10$  but sometime they have a bit of sibilance and it's annoy me. Do you have some recommendations for  a 10 to 50$ bright and vocal forward earbud that can be better than the tingos, i want to listen music with high volume and without sibilance but i don't know if it's possible at this price and with this kind of products that's why i decided to ask here. Sorry again if my english is not good and thank you in advance.



If you don't mind potentially bass light to just ok bass (depending on fit) the Ourart ACG has outstanding mids, great vocals and very good stage.

I'd equate its sound signature to an er4sr in earbuds


----------



## povidlo

mochill said:


> Im guessing 1khr minimum


1,000 hours.......by the time Maria arrived from black friday sale Maria II was announced; by the time burn-in complete III will be out...


----------



## Bitsir

Can anyone provide more information and impressions on the FiiO EM5? I'm seriously considering purchasing it.

The Urbanfun YBF-ISS014 made me a believer in Beryllium. It's so fast and vibrant, dynamic. That little $60 IEM is the best medium for audio that I own and I have IEMs, headphones and speakers ranging from $150 to $1000. It's closed though so that's what made me interested in the FiiO EM5, along with the ease of the form factor.

I'm still a little nervous about the bass quantity not being enough for the sort of music i typically listen to.

The bass *quality* is said to be very good (I'm still not sure if it's good period or good "for being an earbud") and extremely well separated, allowing you to sense it on its own. I hope this does not mean that the bass is separated from the instruments themselves if that makes sense. 

I'm also hearing conflicting reports on the treble. Some experience the treble as sharp and intense, others say it's quite gentle? I understand that the foams have an impact. 
What about the resolution of the treble? Even if it is not quite as extended as most IEMs; does it resolve and behave well?

Appreciate any input.


----------



## lackOfInspiration (Dec 26, 2020)

Hi there, I thought it would be nice to write a little Christmas review comfortably sat next to the fireplace. 
So here we go with the popular *Qian69*, that (spoiler) are surely up to their reputation.

I baught them back in November and have been listening to them every now and then till last week when I began to dive deep into their sound.

I'll start with the *fit*, as it has a huge impact on sound and should always be taken into account when reading impressions. I got a very comfortable fit easely, using full foam and wearing over ear. I was able to adjust the strength of the seal nicely playing with the placement in my concha. So far so good.

Now we get to the *sound profile*, estimated by ear auditioning logarithmics frequency sweeps and white noise bands at roughly 50 Phons. Here is th inverse of the EQ i need to apply to get a percieved flat all through the spectrum. You should at least considere the equal loudness contoure to read the graph (although it has less of an impact that one might think in this precise case) . *It's not much worth and by no mean equivalent to proper measurments made with proper gear*. Please ignore the red curve and everything below 20hz / above 15khz.



​So this is our typical "OK-Tuned" earbud response in the high mids/low highs. It doesn't lack clarity although the 3.5kHz notch changes the timbre. Guitars, voices, violons etc.. are not accurately reproduced and are somewhat less "detailled", but dont sound bad at all. Nothing shouty, very smooth and clear. So nothing dramatic, definitly good enough for music enjoyment, and every single earbud I heard share this 3k+5k peaks profile (exception made for the Smabat M2 Pro and the Apple earpods). I'd even say* it is as good as it can be with this kind of profile*. It's surely helped by the fact the lower part of the spectrum is extremely disciplined. No midbass bloat, reasonably well extended bass (HD600ish level) that allow the mids to shine. The treble are also super well done, being Harmanish in trand but with 9-10khz sparkle added to the mix. Innoffensive yet exciting.

Most of the drawbacks described above can be corrected with EQ without problems. My unit handled a 4db bass boost beautifully. I added a 3.5khz boost on the top of that, and the result was very satisfying. (small edit for those interested, my EQ settings are the following: Low shelf +4dB @ 50Hz Q=0.6 ; Peak +4dB @3500hz Q=3.0; High Shelf +2dB @3000hz  Q=0.6)

That's it fot the Qian69, I hope it will be usefull to some.

Merry Christmas to all of you, take care, and enjoy the music!


----------



## Sam L (Dec 25, 2020)

lackOfInspiration said:


> Hi there, I thought it would be nice to write a little Christmas review comfortably sat next to the fireplace.
> So here we go with the popular *Qian69*, that (spoiler) are surely up to their reputation.
> 
> I baught them back in November and have been listening to them every now and then till last week when I began to dive deep into their sound.
> ...


Excellent post, as always.

I have seen the same thing with the peaks between 1k to 10k, there are consistently two as you indicated at 3k-ish and 5k-ish. Here are some of my observations re: those two peaks:

rarely does the "pinna" gain plateau at 3k (as is more common with iems). Most earbuds plateau between 2k to 2.7k, with most buds setting around 2.5k to 2.7.
I agree the following notch affects "tonality" for voices, guitar, etc. as you mentioned, but I think the observations you are detailing are more descriptive of weaknesses in timbre. These are seemingly insignificant semantic nuances but they are important in describing the following two details in describing sounds in particular regions of the frequency response: (frankly I don't care what label(s) are given to describe each concept, just as long as the concepts are differentiated)
"tonality" - in the audiophile world, has come to mean a generalized description of the overall accuracy from an FR perspective of a headphone, iem, etc. It has also become commonplace to describe the accuracy of regions of the spectrum, ie. mid range tonality, treble tonality, etc.
"timbre" is a more detailed description of sound where it occupies the FR as well as it's envelope (which is comprised of time dynamics - sustain, decay, release, etc.)

The notch immediately following the 3k rise most definitely affects timbre for many instruments, but I've also heard tonality affected by placement of the second peak, which is often pushed out to 6k or even 7k.
The 2nd peak for buds is rarely < 5k and most often between 6k to 7k. (the fiio em5's second peak is at 6.5k, for example)

Currently, for my v1.6 target I've been pondering the relationship between these two peaks. The questions I'm examining are:

What are the properties of "good" negative slopes after these two peaks?
How far should they go down?
Where should 10k terminate before sloping upwards? Headphones tend to match 1k. I'm leaning towards a -5dB differential.
What are the ideal peak points for these first 2 peaks? The smabat s10s silver is 1.8k and 6k. I like the stock tuning of the upper mids and lower treble of the Qian 39, who's first 2 peaks are at 3.3k and 6k. The fiio em5 and the Y**Y** bk2 share simliar peaks at 2.8k and 6.5k, although their amplitudes are completely different.


----------



## kurtextrem (Dec 25, 2020)

Oh boy, the Rose Maria is somewhat hard to fit. Glad that I know this forum for so long, so after trying 1 foam & 1 foam + O-Ring I went to double foam and now it finally stays in my ear in a good position. The sound is comparable to the Moondrop Liebesleid, BUT the bass is *way* better. Sadly can't compare to Moondrop Chaconne.
The sound of Rose Maria is more distant. I think bigger soundstage.


----------



## lackOfInspiration

Sam L said:


> Excellent post, as always.
> 
> I have seen the same thing with the peaks between 1k to 10k, there are consistently two as you indicated at 3k-ish and 5k-ish. Here are some of my observations re: those two peaks:
> 
> ...


Yes you're absolutely right, my point was that it changes the _timbre _of those instruments, as it is just a very localized variation that is likely to affect harmonic content of instruments rather than the fondamental. I also think the distinction is a matter of scale. I'll edit the original post, thanks!


> Currently, for my v1.6 target I've been pondering the relationship between these two peaks. The questions I'm examining are:
> 
> What are the properties of "good" negative slopes after these two peaks?
> How far should they go down?
> ...



One approach would be to try to figure this out playing with EQ and a dead flat set of buds. I'll do that in the near future and telle you what I get if it can help.
But certainly being conservativ post 10k is often preferable imo. And my guess is that 3k + 5k is a good combo, but I have the feeling the position of the second peak can vary depending on ear anatomy.


----------



## dharmasteve

Got the feeling to put my Rose Masya Mk11 (Pro) on my HiBy R5 with a balanced 4.4 copper cable....it's been a while. They have really good..big...bass. On Ornette Coleman's 'Focus on Sanity' the double bass on all my IEMs doesn't quite make it as the focus. The Rose Masya's do everything right with the bass. The breadth and depths of the notes are very realistic. The thing that stops me using them against my IEMs is a very slight veil that is noticable to me. Has anyone compared the Rose Masya Pro (Mk 11) with the Rose Maria and how do they compare?


----------



## povidlo

🐍 chillin on 🎄 

Happy holidays, earbuds lovers!


----------



## furyossa (Dec 26, 2020)

povidlo said:


> 🐍 chillin on 🎄
> 
> Happy holidays, earbuds lovers!


Camo BT Christmas mode. I didn't see them at first


----------



## Au13

Not a reviewer but I’ve been switching between these and finally have thoughts.  The Viridis feels like an improvement over the TO400s. To me the sound signature/tuning isn’t much different. Part of me expected an entirely different bud and not an enhanced version of the TO400s. I hear more space in the green Viridis. The placement of instruments in each channel (L) and (R) feels more pronounced than in the TO400s. Fit is a little weird, sometime they stay fine and other times they’ll shift. I think with double foams it would stay put but I’m not really a foam lover. Ear hooks  work great as well but as stated previously you sacrifice comfort.


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 26, 2020)

For those of you that don't frequent the TWS or DIY threads, I made another pair of TWS earbuds. Even more convenient in these unfortunate times having to wear masks.






Drivers are 14.8mm diameter, w/N55 magnets and are 64Ω. 
Original drivers are bio-cellulose, 14.2mm and 32Ω.


Spoiler: Drivers



Pic of my other pair of the same drivers when I made a different pair of earbuds.


Sabbat oem driver, courtesy of 52audio
http://www.52audio.com/archives/6752.html


----------



## Timoteew

cenizas said:


> Couple of recommendation for anyone shopping on taobao this 1111, not particularly good deals on them, but worth picking up if you're shipping other stuff already.
> 
> Hana DIY:
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...1KSP9&id=601978706007&ns=1&abbucket=13#detail
> ...


Any chance you'd be able to graph the EM5 and compare FR with HE 150PRO?


----------



## elvispreasley (Dec 27, 2020)

Can anyone share opinion about the difference in sound between Smabat ST-10s black/silver vs black/gold?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Dec 27, 2020)

elvispreasley said:


> Can anyone share opinion about the difference in sound between Smabat ST-10s black/silver vs black/gold?


There have been some very nice and "well-trusted" comparisons posted earlier in this thread. Quite numerous in fact as it is/was a very popular earbud. Using the thread search window simply type in "*Smabat ST-10s black/silver black/gold*" or some variant of that and you will find your requested comparisons


----------



## elvispreasley (Dec 28, 2020)

Got it, thnx) Have another question for experienced erbuds users: what earbuds, to your opinion,  reminds you the most - the performance and overall feeling of the "classical" OEM, like HD600/650/800?
I'm mostly listening OEM for the last few years and now want to start the quest with earbuds, as I heard that some of them might be really close to OEM in terms of overall sound feeling and signature.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

elvispreasley said:


> Got it, thnx) Have another question for experienced erbuds users: what earbuds, to your opinion,  reminds you the most - the performance and overall feeling of the "classical" OEM, like HD600/650/800?
> I'm mostly listening OEM for the last few years and now want to start the quest with earbuds, as I heard that some of them might be really close to OEM in terms of overall sound feeling and signature.


Yes, earbuds are closer to open-backs while IEMs tend to be more similar to closed-back headphones in their designed/offered sound signature. Where earbuds tend to really shine is in: soundstage (larger/wider); imaging (improved/clearer timbre); and comfort (cooler, lighter, less irritating).

Many have likened the *Blur* house sound to the neutral, well timbre'd, and detailed Sennheiser HD600, I would agree with this (more about Blur *here*)
Many here on this thread have described the *VE Zen 2* as being close to the sound signature of HD650.
Other earbuds that many consider to mimic the Sennheiser house sound (YMMV) are *Shozy BK*;* Ks 600*;* Ty HP-650*; *Toneking TO600*; and the* Yinman 600 *(please note that these are all high impedance besides the Shozy  ).


----------



## elvispreasley

First of all, thank you for a prompt reply with many suggestions!
Second, this is my kinda second attempt - to jump into "buds world", as my previous one (about 2 years ago) didn't achieved much success: I purchased several earbuds and was never impressed with the sound any of them.
I heard about VE Zen 2 and Shozy BK and they are on my list (still considering - which one of 2 will give me better experience). 
I'm really surprised about TO600, as I already have it and...can't say that I might describe it's sound signature anything close to HD650...They are actually the best sounding earbuds I ever tried, but still far away from full sized cans in terms of soundstage, details and bass quality/response.


----------



## Sam L

elvispreasley said:


> First of all, thank you for a prompt reply with many suggestions!
> Second, this is my kinda second attempt - to jump into "buds world", as my previous one (about 2 years ago) didn't achieved much success: I purchased several earbuds and was never impressed with the sound any of them.
> I heard about VE Zen 2 and Shozy BK and they are on my list (still considering - which one of 2 will give me better experience).
> I'm really surprised about TO600, as I already have it and...can't say that I might describe it's sound signature anything close to HD650...They are actually the best sounding earbuds I ever tried, but still far away from full sized cans in terms of soundstage, details and bass quality/response.



If you are amenable to eq, get the datura pro and use this post for eq files. I have peace/apo PEQ, wavelet and GEQ files.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbud-target-curve-tests.944006/page-10#post-16015098

The result will easily be in the tier of any of the earbuds mentioned.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Dec 28, 2020)

@elvispreasley  All about "the fit" most times when it comes to earbuds. This may or may not explain the Toneking... also, this particular area/subject can be rather subjective at times and most definitely varies from person to person. Although, there are definitely some very bass friendly earbuds out there (e.g. Smabat ST-10s) this is one area (especially deep thumping bass) that earbuds tend to struggle with and a proper fit is super critical here... paramount in fact. This is why IEMs typically trump earbuds in this regard. While detailed bass can be gotten via an earbud a "basshead" would probably prefer to turn to an IEM or closed-back instead.


----------



## Sam L (Dec 28, 2020)

Timoteew said:


> Any chance you'd be able to graph the EM5 and compare FR with HE 150PRO?


I have those graphs in my thread, earbuds test curves.

*edit*
I don't have the he 150pro graph in that thread, just the compensation files. Here it is.


----------



## Ithilstone

Hi there - hope you don't mind me asking 
where did you sourced those drivers?


assassin10000 said:


> Drivers are 14.8mm diameter, w/N55 magnets and are 64Ω.


I have Ksearphone bell-lb where one side failed - as there is no chance to source original drivers I am thinking of transplant, to resurrect Ksearphone bells in different form.
Or any other suggestions for pair of drivers that would be similar?
Thanx!


----------



## elvispreasley (Dec 28, 2020)

@WoodyLuvr, it's hard to disagree.  Well, I placed an order on Smabat st-10s black/silver, so we'll see how there's actually sounding, in a few month.
Meantime I'm really tempting about Shozy BK...


----------



## assassin10000

Ithilstone said:


> Hi there - hope you don't mind me asking
> where did you sourced those drivers?
> 
> I have Ksearphone bell-lb where one side failed - as there is no chance to source original drivers I am thinking of transplant, to resurrect Ksearphone bells in different form.
> ...



NSC audio store on AliExpress.


Which version of the K's LB do you have? The older warmer one or the newer V-shaped 2020 one? 

If you have the older one and want a warmer bassier signature I'd go with the 40Ω Ti. Treble just takes a step back after 4-6k by about 3-5db. 

The 64Ω N55 is more balanced. Well, depending on tuning.


64Ω N55
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32978993535.html

40Ω Ti
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4001146843093.html


More info here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/


----------



## Pxncture

What would be a good MMCX warm analog sounding earbud I could find on Amazon for under 150usd? Christmas amazon gift card that needs to be used.


----------



## Timoteew

Sam L said:


> I have those graphs in my thread, earbuds test curves.
> 
> *edit*
> I don't have the he 150pro graph in that thread, just the compensation files. Here it is.


Amazing cheers for that - they look remarkably similar!


----------



## povidlo

Smabat ST-10s Silver matches your description.
https://www.amazon.com/Earphone-HIFIHEAR-Diaphragm-Maze-Shaped-Detachable/dp/B086MLHP23

Just keep in mind:
-there's a "better" Gold version of this earbud that's costlier but doesn't look like is available on Amazon.com. I've only tried Gold, which is great, but based on reviews Silver should sound similar just a bit worse technically due to a different lower impedance driver used.
-$120 USD is not a good price for Silver version, it can be had for lower on Aliexpress.


----------



## Sam L

Broke out a camera I haven't used for years (nikon d50), figured I might as well start taking pics of earbuds.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Regarding above pic... for those that don't know... 2019 - NICEHCK Audio ME80 (34Ω)


----------



## baskingshark

WoodyLuvr said:


> Regarding above pic... for those that don't know... 2019 - NICEHCK Audio ME80 (34Ω)



One of the best budget earbuds. Too bad it is no more in production. If they came out with a successor or Pro version of this, will be a day one purchase for me surely.


----------



## Ithilstone (Dec 29, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Which version of the K's LB do you have? The older warmer one or the newer V-shaped 2020 one?



Thank you!
I believe I have older version with silver cable (no Mic)
they came broken - from left channel only I like what I hear but really it is hard to evaluate;]
Will read up more and pick one of the 2 you suggested

p/s it is funny but just from pictures I picked those same drivers and added to "like" drivers to read about them later - soo great to get confirmation from you it is what I am looking for


----------



## assassin10000

Ithilstone said:


> Thank you!
> I believe I have older version with silver cable (no Mic)
> they came broken - from left channel only I like what I hear but really it is hard to evaluate;]
> Will read up more and pick one of the 2 you suggested
> ...



No problem.

I have had both versions of the K's LB and I have both DIY drivers. Actually both are on my modded TWS, the Ti is on my X12 Pro and one pair of N55 is on my X12 Ultra now lol.


----------



## jant71

What do we know about this one yet?



Only could screen cap this. Just coming soon and clicking gives nothing just yet.


----------



## dabaiyan

jant71 said:


> What do we know about this one yet?
> 
> Only could screen cap this. Just coming soon and clicking gives nothing just yet.


It's their new flagship, already selling in China, will probably be around $200


----------



## Pxncture

povidlo said:


> Smabat ST-10s Silver matches your description.
> https://www.amazon.com/Earphone-HIFIHEAR-Diaphragm-Maze-Shaped-Detachable/dp/B086MLHP23
> 
> Just keep in mind:
> ...


Thank you for the recommendation, unfortunately more pressing matters occured so I had to spend the card on a matress frame, but I wasn't buying something with it without buying audio gear so I picked up a spring lotus 1.0 for 10usd as well


----------



## LordZero

My **** bk2 just died. Is anything better or equal for the same price? 20€

I loved the fit, the flexible cable and sound. My problem with other earbuds is the cable, it's always stiff, rubbery or tangled easily, but the bk2 cable was perfect.


----------



## mtl171

*FAAEL Datura Pro (with black foams)*

I just got my datura pros after hearing it suggested by Sam L, furyossa, and Basking Shark for being mid focused. I honestly did not believe the posts about how bad the bass roll off would be. Its seriously terrible stock. Upper bass is light but fine, Mid bass is barely tolerable, but anything beneath that is nonexistent. Mids are definitely pronounced as expected, though the treble is the closest I've heard to sibilant in any earbud/IEM/headphone even after applying black foams. It's actually piercing with some higher pitched vocalist. Strings violin/guitars also have this weird twang (?) sound to them which just sounds off.

I ended up applying Sam L's neutral EQ tuning. Overall I find the treble/mids is smoothed out a bit which make these wayyyyy more tolerable. It lacks the sparkle from the original but I would not say vocals sound thin. The bass is less then the Snow Lotus CE, though theres enough for me and its surprisingly well done and punchy. Strings also sound much more natural. My only gripe with these buds is some distortion in the extreme highs though I doubt thats fault of the EQ. If you're willing to EQ and looking for something that shines with vocals, I'd definitely recommend these.

Next up: Smabat ST-10s Gold


----------



## baskingshark

mtl171 said:


> *FAAEL Datura Pro (with black foams)*
> 
> I just got my datura pros after hearing it suggested by Sam L, furyossa, and Basking Shark for being mid focused. I honestly did not believe the posts about how bad the bass roll off would be. Its seriously terrible stock. Upper bass is light but fine, Mid bass is barely tolerable, but anything beneath that is nonexistent. Mids are definitely pronounced as expected, though the treble is the closest I've heard to sibilant in any earbud/IEM/headphone even after applying black foams. It's actually piercing with some higher pitched vocalist. Strings violin/guitars also have this weird twang (?) sound to them which just sounds off.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your impressions! The Datura Pro is also quite ill fitting for me, I have to angle the stem about 60 degrees anteriorly to get a proper seal (and I have to use two full foams, one over the other) to achieve a good seal to get a sufficient bass. Luckily it takes to EQ well, so that's an option.

U need an amp with the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold. I think there's an aliexpress sale coming in 1 - 2 days time, so hopefully it will be sufficiently discounted then.


----------



## mtl171

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for your impressions! The Datura Pro is also quite ill fitting for me, I have to angle the stem about 60 degrees anteriorly to get a proper seal (and I have to use two full foams, one over the other) to achieve a good seal to get a sufficient bass. Luckily it takes to EQ well, so that's an option.
> 
> U need an amp with the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold. I think there's an aliexpress sale coming in 1 - 2 days time, so hopefully it will be sufficiently discounted then.


I definitely found myself tilting the stems as well with the Datura Pro. I was a bit worried that double foams woulds muffle the highs too much, though its something I'd consider if I get more foams. 

Do you have any recommendations for amps on AliExpress? I was hoping my portable Oppo Ha2se or LG v40 would suffice.


----------



## baskingshark

mtl171 said:


> I definitely found myself tilting the stems as well with the Datura Pro. I was a bit worried that double foams woulds muffle the highs too much, though its something I'd consider if I get more foams.
> 
> Do you have any recommendations for amps on AliExpress? I was hoping my portable Oppo Ha2se or LG v40 would suffice.



Double foams does muffle the highs a bit, you are right. Sometimes I use a silicone cover/donut foam in the inner layer, and I put a full foam over the outer layer. That generally doesn't tame the treble too much.

For amps, I haven't tried the Oppo Ha2se or LG v40, so I do hope the others can advise u, but I use a desktop amp Topping L30 (high gain) with the ST10S Black Gold. Most of my other dongles and portable amps/DAPs don't really do it much justice in sound.


----------



## furyossa (Dec 29, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for your impressions! The Datura Pro is also quite ill fitting for me, I have to angle the stem about 60 degrees anteriorly to get a proper seal (and I have to use two full foams, one over the other) to achieve a good seal to get a sufficient bass. Luckily it takes to EQ well, so that's an option.
> 
> U need an amp with the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold. I think there's an aliexpress sale coming in 1 - 2 days time, so hopefully it will be sufficiently discounted then.



It may look a little weird, but I wear them over-ears because the cables are a little heavier than with other standard buds and pull them out of my ears.
And yes, stock tuning is  very disappointing but considering the beautiful design, build quality and excellent tuning capability I am very pleased
with the price-value ratio that this earbud provides.
After all the fact is that there is no perfect pair of earbuds, but there are always "gems", like this one, that appear from time to time and that make this hobby interesting


----------



## baskingshark

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001291591406.html

*2020 ksearphone reincarnation edition*

Bling bling! Price is also crazily expensive! Fit for golden ears who can hear fine nuances in the music!


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001291591406.html
> 
> *2020 ksearphone reincarnation edition*
> 
> Bling bling! Price is also crazily expensive! Fit for golden ears who can hear fine nuances in the music!


It's too much. Maybe they use gold coat for drver diaphragm


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 3, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> U need an amp with the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold.


I keep forgetting to ask did we ever get a final confirmation on the correct specs for ST-10S Black-Gold? I am very curious about this.

I remember there was quite a confusing period there where the advertised specs were saying either 120Ω  or 150Ω and then if I recall correctly @DBaldock9 after testing discovered that his pair had an impedance of 300Ω or higher. I too have seriously questioned and doubt the given 150Ω impedance and 115 dB/mW sensitivity rating and do believe that mine are closer to 300Ω with a sensitivity maybe in the mid to high 90s only.

If they are indeed 150Ω / 115 dB/mW it doesn't explain at all why they sound better (less anemic) when amp'd as 110 dB SPL can be easily reached with only 0.22 volts; a current of only 1.45 mA; and require power of only 0.32 mW which is available from nearly all mobile sources that I can think of.



 



But if the impedance is indeed much higher and the sensitivity much lower this would then explain the need for them to be amp'd... I created this scenario as follows:


----------



## baskingshark

WoodyLuvr said:


> I keep forgetting to ask did we ever get a final confirmation on the correct specs for ST-10S Black-Gold? I am very curious about this.
> 
> I remember there was quite a confusing period there where the advertised specs were saying either 120Ω  or 150Ω and then if I recall correctly @DBaldock9 after testing discovered that his pair had an impedance of 300Ω or higher. I too have seriously questioned and doubt the given 150Ω impedance and 110 dB/mW sensitivity rating and do believe that mine are closer to 300Ω with a sensitivity maybe in the mid to high 90s only.
> 
> ...



Haha we gotta ask @DBaldock9 and the rest who have measuring gear, I unfortunately don't. But I also do think it is probably more than the advertised 150 ohm impedance, and the sensitivity might be lower. Black Gold is tough to drive for sure. Though drivability as you pointed out, is more dependent on sensitivity, and to a lesser extent impedance.

It is not a matter of loudness too, one can easily put the Black Gold on a low powered smartphone and just pump up the volume. It is more that amping increases dynamics, bass tightness/texture, perhaps microdetails and soundstage.


----------



## Nool (Dec 30, 2020)

Gotta say I'm rather disappointed with the yincrow rw-9, the tuning is alright but it still sounds thin, which is a complaint I have with a lot of buds. The YY BK2 has a healthier note weight to it, better timbre, and overall better neutral tuning for the price. Better cable, too.




LordZero said:


> My **** bk2 just died. Is anything better or equal for the same price? 20€
> 
> I loved the fit, the flexible cable and sound. My problem with other earbuds is the cable, it's always stiff, rubbery or tangled easily, but the bk2 cable was perfect.



Yeah, another BK2, lol. Easily the best neutral tuning & timbre I've heard, though very bass-light and cramped staging. You could also try the NSC Clear buds I posted a link to earlier, which are a little less resolving imo but has some bass presence which the BK2 clearly lacks. Sounds a bit thinner as well but still pretty good, with good enough timbre. If you want straight warmth go with the yincrow x6, less resolution than the other two but it has a well executed bass emphasis and fair timbre. Out of what's in my signature those three are what I'd recommend, for price/quality.

Edit: Yeah, the rw-9 is pretty similar to the NSC clear, but the mids on the rw-9 are recessed somewhat.


----------



## LordZero

Nool said:


> Yeah, another BK2, lol. Easily the best neutral tuning & timbre I've heard, though very bass-light and cramped staging. You could also try the NSC Clear buds I posted a link to earlier, which are a little less resolving imo but has some bass presence which the BK2 clearly lacks. Sounds a bit thinner as well but still pretty good, with good enough timbre. If you want straight warmth go with the yincrow x6, less resolution than the other two but it has a well executed bass emphasis and fair timbre. Out of what's in my signature those three are what I'd recommend, for price/quality.


Thank you 
Yeah, I am thinking in another bk2...The problem with my unit is the left driver, sometimes buzzs and drives me crazy. Don't know how to fix.
I have the Yincrow X6 they are nice, but the cable is what I don't like :\ the NSC Clear are cheap and seem nice, will order one to test it out


----------



## Nool

@LordZero See if there's any hair stuck in the earbuds grill, sometimes a strand gets in there and interferes with the diaphragms vibrations. You could also try gently blowing through the grill and back vent with a can of compressed air, though I dunno how safe that'd be.

The cable on the NSC clear isn't much better than the x6, and imo they all break anyway. You could buy some mmcx jacks and mod them if you want, I'd have done so already but the bk2 works well enough for me.

One last thing about the NSC clear, it's definitely brighter than the bk2, and I do hear some slight sibilance sometimes. I killed 8-20khz by a few decibels and found that helps clear out some of the air. Overall though the tuning is nice, pretty well done U-shape, they just overshot the treble a bit too much I think. The bass is a welcome presence coming from the bk2.


----------



## rprodrigues (Dec 30, 2020)

Ebx21 at about $210 on Taobao. Besides the price, their shape reminds me the shape of Rambo II (the worst fit among all my buds)... so, they are indeed a no go for me.


----------



## buzzyman

But if the impedance is indeed much higher and the sensitivity much lower this would then explain the need for them to be amp'd... I created this scenario as follows:

 
[/QUOTE]


WoodyLuvr said:


> I keep forgetting to ask did we ever get a final confirmation on the correct specs for ST-10S Black-Gold? I am very curious about this.
> 
> I remember there was quite a confusing period there where the advertised specs were saying either 120Ω  or 150Ω and then if I recall correctly @DBaldock9 after testing discovered that his pair had an impedance of 300Ω or higher. I too have seriously questioned and doubt the given 150Ω impedance and 110 dB/mW sensitivity rating and do believe that mine are closer to 300Ω with a sensitivity maybe in the mid to high 90s only.
> 
> ...


I have a smabat m2 pro with drivers from st10s black gold.  I measured the resistance and I have 156 ohms.


----------



## buzzyman




----------



## waynes world

Nool said:


> Gotta say I'm rather disappointed with the yincrow rw-9, the tuning is alright but it still sounds thin, which is a complaint I have with a lot of buds. The YY BK2 has a healthier note weight to it, better timbre, and overall better neutral tuning for the price. Better cable, too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting - I don't find the rw-9's to sound thin at all (with a donut foams and a good fit), so you've got me looking even more forward to receiving the x6's to compare.


----------



## Nool

rprodrigues said:


> Ebx21 at about $210 on Taobao. Besides the price, their shape reminds me the shape of Rambo II (the worst fit among all my buds)... so, they are indeed a no go for me.


I have to agree with the Rambo 2's fit, the EBX21 looks like it'd have the same problem with being too heavy. A cheap, light plastic mx500 shell is much comfier.

That diaphragm looks hot though, Japanese imported LCP. IIRC Sony uses the same material in some of their IEMs; Moondrop is also making a sub-$20 LCP IEM as well I believe, so yeah I don't think that alone justifies a $200 price tag.


----------



## furyossa (Dec 30, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> Ebx21 at about $210 on Taobao. Besides the price, their shape reminds me the shape of Rambo II (the worst fit among all my buds)... so, they are indeed a no go for me.


Hmmm...I don't see anything special that can justify the price.
It has the same cable as this one ($109). Only the earbuds worth around $100.
I own EBX OG  and what I mentioned earlier my only complaint are the MMCX sockets.
The good thing is that EBX21 uses smaller driver size like OG.
Back vent has wrong placement for sure.
Sensitivity is too high 121dB
Material of the shell???? I hope is not the plastic. Maybe magnesium-zinc alloy?


----------



## Nool

waynes world said:


> Interesting - I don't find the rw-9's to sound thin at all (with a donut foams and a good fit), so you've got me looking even more forward to receiving the x6's to compare.


They're not terrible, just that I think some others are better. The Rambo 2's actually have the best note weight to me, but it's got a lot against it as well, mainly the tuning and timbre.

And for the record, the differences between these buds is maybe 10-15%, not really worth stressing over, especially at higher prices where you know you'll be getting much better fidelity in IEMs.

For the record I think the x6 is less resolving, but that's probably due to the bass boost and quieter treble. Also if I didn't hear the NSC Clear the rw-9 probably would've taken its place, they're pretty close I just think the mids on the rw-9 are more recessed. Again, the differences between these are pretty minor; I've been buying buds that are already acclaimed here, so it's not surprising I haven't heard anything that sounds like outright garbage, like some of the generic "complimentary" earbuds we randomly find laying around the house, you know


----------



## mochill

Ebx21 for $100 or less then I'll take them


----------



## furyossa (Dec 30, 2020)

mochill said:


> Ebx21 for $100 or less then I'll take them


 Are you sure? 
NiceHCK initially sold the original EBX model with a simple cable, and later when they started making their own cables,
they made an offer with or without a cable (earbuds only).
It seems to me that EBX21 wants to compete with this model


----------



## mochill

I'd buy it if that was a deal for cheap


----------



## cqtek

Hello to all.

I've been looking for information about OpenHeart earbuds, but I haven't found much here, just some comments about them being generic capsules. Has anyone been able to try them out? They don't look bad.
Thanks in advance.

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/4001180479742.html?


----------



## furyossa (Dec 30, 2020)

Currently, the most interesting offer, IMO, is S.e.n.f.e.r PT2021 with nice price. If the sound quality is 50% similar to Fiio EM5, it pays off again.
I saw that Fiio included this tool in his flagship package which is very convenient.

Is this the "new kid on the block"?






https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001902171423.html


----------



## mtl171

WoodyLuvr said:


> I keep forgetting to ask did we ever get a final confirmation on the correct specs for ST-10S Black-Gold? I am very curious about this.
> 
> I remember there was quite a confusing period there where the advertised specs were saying either 120Ω  or 150Ω and then if I recall correctly @DBaldock9 after testing discovered that his pair had an impedance of 300Ω or higher. I too have seriously questioned and doubt the given 150Ω impedance and 110 dB/mW sensitivity rating and do believe that mine are closer to 300Ω with a sensitivity maybe in the mid to high 90s only.
> 
> ...


This was definitely intriguing. I definitely hear a difference between my iPad Pro and Oppo HA2se (both 1 Vrms, though latter puts at 30mW into 300 ohm). Bass is noticeably less prominent and treble thinner with the former. I'm surprised as I always was of the belief that amp-ing was primarily for loudness. Kudos to baskingshark for emphasizing how a big of a difference amp made. It really makes these come alive.


----------



## Ithilstone

mtl171 said:


> . I'm surprised as I always was of the belief that amp-ing was primarily for loudness.



Loudness is a factor of distortion not power, so no one should listen too "loud".

A half watt radio may be 'too loud' at 70db
A biamped 80w system may not be at all 'loud' at 85db


----------



## furyossa (Dec 30, 2020)

cqtek said:


> Hello to all.
> 
> I've been looking for information about OpenHeart earbuds, but I haven't found much here, just some comments about them being generic capsules. Has anyone been able to try them out? They don't look bad.
> Thanks in advance.
> ...


It's a bit strange. First of all these buds are assembled from DIY parts that can be found in few stores on Ali. This version of OPENHEART is exactly the same as this DIY bud on CKLewis Audio Store. They make a typo for sensitivity. It's 105dB and not 99dB.
The same driver is used for the version that you posted (shells).  I can't find these 32ohm graphene drivers anywhere that can be purchased separately except 68ohm, 400ohm and 500ohm. There is another 220ohm "branded" version here.
I own only 400ohm graphene driver. This is my build. 500ohm have similar freq. graph like 600ohm beryllium and 68ohm is a relatively new driver.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Dec 31, 2020)

buzzyman said:


> I have a smabat m2 pro with drivers from st10s black gold.  I measured the resistance and I have 156 ohms.


@buzzyman Thank you for sharing that. I have a feeling that there may have been a huge variance with driver impedance on the initial run as I finally found @DBaldock9 's post stating that his were testing @ 300 ohms. Do you have any thoughts regarding the sensitivity rating being much lower than the stated 110 dB/mW? Cheers.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Happy New Year!


----------



## buzzyman

WoodyLuvr said:


> @buzzyman Thank you for sharing that. I have a feeling that there may have been a huge variance with driver impedance on the initial run as I finally found @DBaldock9 's post stating that his were testing @ 300 ohms. Do you have any thoughts regarding the sensitivity rating being much lower than the stated 110 dB/mW? Cheers.


It seems to me that the sensitivity of my 150 ohms drivers is slightly lower than 110 db.  Because I listen to them on a portable dac Topping nx4 dsd using hi gain.  I think the sensitivity is closer to 96 db / mw.


----------



## emusic13

Looks like a new earbud? Xiao fan T2. Ceramic like Diaphragm.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

emusic13 said:


> Looks like a new earbud? Xiao fan T2. Ceramic like Diaphragm.


Yep, new. Looks like BGVP DX5


----------



## cappuchino

New Year, New Gear Recommendation?

For my first purchase this 2021, I'd like to ask some recommendations for earbuds under $20. I had a Red Vido which I unfortunately damaged with an attempt at recabling and a K's Nameless which I still have. Thanks!


----------



## baskingshark

sub30 said:


> New Year, New Gear Recommendation?
> 
> For my first purchase this 2021, I'd like to ask some recommendations for earbuds under $20. I had a Red Vido which I unfortunately damaged with an attempt at recabling and a K's Nameless which I still have. Thanks!



Would be good if u could give more info so the community can fine tune recommendations better:

1) Preferred music genres?
2) Preferred sound signature? Neutral, V shaped, midcentric, basshead/bass averse, treblehead/treble sensitive?
3) What source are you using with it? Ie is drivability important?


----------



## cappuchino

baskingshark said:


> Would be good if u could give more info so the community can fine tune recommendations better:
> 
> 1) Preferred music genres?
> 2) Preferred sound signature? Neutral, V shaped, midcentric, basshead/bass averse, treblehead/treble sensitive?
> 3) What source are you using with it? Ie is drivability important?


I intentionally left those 2 first questions out as I wanted to receive every possible recommendation. But I forgot about drivability - I prefer those that can be driven by a phone. Thanks.


----------



## furyossa

sub30 said:


> I intentionally left those 2 first questions out as I wanted to receive every possible recommendation. But I forgot about drivability - I prefer those that can be driven by a phone. Thanks.


These two questions are very important because there are a lot of different models and that price range. It would be the same as if we recommended that you start reading 
all earlier comments from this thread.


----------



## cappuchino

furyossa said:


> These two questions are very important because there are a lot of different models and that price range. It would be the same as if we recommended that you start reading
> all earlier comments from this thread.


Okay, so here goes:

1) Preferred music genres? I mostly listen to alternative/indie, 80s/90s rock, pop, classical, EDM
2) Preferred sound signature? Neutral, V shaped, midcentric, basshead/bass averse, treblehead/treble sensitive? Still haven't decided yet as I haven't heard all signatures.


----------



## furyossa

SO U need some buds with sensitivity more than 100dB and impedance around or below 64ohm. This is the random order;
- Yincrow X6
- FAAEAL 64ohm
- TONEKING TP16
- Tingo TG-38s
- RY4S Plus version and in the same store U can buy the cable (look or ask for mmcx version)
- DIY PK2 (you can pick different cable)
- FAAEAL Datura pro (It's $26 on sale and if you use EQ this pair is class above from all models in the list)


----------



## cappuchino

furyossa said:


> SO U need some buds with sensitivity more than 100dB and impedance around or below 64ohm. This is the random order;
> - Yincrow X6
> - FAAEAL 64ohm
> - TONEKING TP16
> ...


Thanks! These are the ones I am interested in:

Yincrow X6 ($6)
Faaeal 64 ohm/Snow Lotus ($6.60)
Tingo TG-38s - is this the same as the TC200? ($5)

Between these three, which do you most prefer?


----------



## furyossa

On Ali, Yincrow x6 is around $11 not $6. 
This new model Faaeal 64ohm is different from SnowLotus. Check specification.
Tingo TG-38s is not TC-200. It's better version


----------



## cappuchino

furyossa said:


> On Ali, Yincrow x6 is around $11 not $6.
> This new model Faaeal 64ohm is different from SnowLotus. Check specification.
> Tingo TG-38s is not TC-200. It's better version


Oh, I see. I guess TC-200's out of the list. I'm not on Ali. I use Shopee for online shopping and the X6 is sold for $6 and I could still get discounts. Thanks!


----------



## DBaldock9

DBaldock9 said:


> I'm using an LG V30, which is rooted and running Lineage OS.
> Wavelet installs, but there's no AutoEQ displayed when I start it, even with Legacy selected.



When searching for why Wavelet wasn't working on my LG V30, I found that some alternate ROMs don't correctly configure the DynamicsProcessing library, which was added to Android 9/Pie - especially when developers did a quick upgrade/conversion of their Android 8 to Android 9.  That's apparently what happened with the LineageOS 16.0 (9/Pie) "Unofficial" release for my LG V30.
.
People who are running "Official" releases of LineageOS 16.0 on other phone models (which correctly configures the DynamicsProcessing library), report that Wavelet works fine.


----------



## cappuchino

Anyone still using Headroom MS16? The open-back design is quite intriguing.


----------



## orys

How does the Moondrop Liebesleid compare to today's earbuds guys?
Thinking of getting some Yurdbud covers to secure it better on my ear and direct the sound in the ear canal.
Any other cover alternatives?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

orys said:


> How does the Moondrop Liebesleid compare to today's earbuds guys?


They are in the Chine top earbuds:
1. K's earphone ti bell 120Ω
2. Moondrop CHACONNE
3. K's earphone Ti bell Onmyoji 30Ω
4. Moondrop Liebesleid
5. Dez No.7
6. DQSM Turandot
7. Fiio EM5


----------



## orys

Alex.Grimm said:


> They are in the Chine top earbuds:
> 1. K's earphone ti bell 120Ω
> 2. Moondrop CHACONNE
> 3. K's earphone Ti bell Onmyoji 30Ω
> ...



Wow! Cool!
Any suggestion on tips?


----------



## rkw

Alex.Grimm said:


> They are in the Chine top earbuds:
> 1. K's earphone ti bell 120Ω
> 2. Moondrop CHACONNE
> 3. K's earphone Ti bell Onmyoji 30Ω
> ...


What is this list? Is it your ranking?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

rkw said:


> What is this list? Is it your ranking?


Is not mine http://headphonemetal.ldblog.jp/archives/52320906.html


----------



## furyossa

DBaldock9 said:


> When searching for why Wavelet wasn't working on my LG V30, I found that some alternate ROMs don't correctly configure the DynamicsProcessing library, which was added to Android 9/Pie - especially when developers did a quick upgrade/conversion of their Android 8 to Android 9.  That's apparently what happened with the LineageOS 16.0 (9/Pie) "Unofficial" release for my LG V30.
> .
> People who are running "Official" releases of LineageOS 16.0 on other phone models (which correctly configures the DynamicsProcessing library), report that Wavelet works fine.


I was thinking about LineageOS 16 for my LG G7 (android 8) but because I already have 3 dongle DAC/amp, I decide to buy a new phone. G7 has 3000mAh and with any dongle battery runs out very fast, and also because of LG Quad DAC these dongles don’t contribute much in terms of sound improvement. I find that Samsung M51 has very nice spec at a good price and IMO this is probably one of the best solution to use with any portable DAC/AMP device without internal battery.
 Of course, the selling point is battery capacity 7K mAh


----------



## theresanarc

I got my ShoonTH ESEP-01BL finally, just burning them in now. They do sound decent out of the box but they're too big for me to really enjoy. In fairness, the description did say large diameter so I should've read rather than going blindly off recommendations. Anyways, they have a good sound but I think they'll be one of the ones I listen to occasionally rather than frequently because of size.

I listened on my Qian39s afterwards and they pack as much of a punch while being so much more comfortable and fitting so much more perfectly. Qian39s are love, Qian39s are life.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 1, 2021)

theresanarc said:


> I got my ShoonTH ESEP-01BL finally, just burning them in now. They do sound decent out of the box but they're too big for me to really enjoy. In fairness, the description did say large diameter so I should've read rather than going blindly off recommendations. Anyways, they have a good sound but I think they'll be one of the ones I listen to occasionally rather than frequently because of size.
> 
> I listened on my Qian39s afterwards and they pack as much of a punch while being so much more comfortable and fitting so much more perfectly. Qian39s are love, Qian39s are life.


They 15.4 mm driver size but this DP100 shell has better ergonomics then MX500. Also, DP100 shell tend to push mids a bit forward. I changed the cable and open side vent which is closed with hot glue This mod will remove "closed-back" effect and expands the soundstage. I will not suggest doing this if you not experience with DIY stuff.
Anyway... I love this pair. It's one of the better mid-centric buds out there.

Mr. @robar find out that ShoonTH driver can be found here, and here (5 pairs). Shells only here.
ShoonTH also have two more expensive models which use the same driver (32ohm) and use this trick to build 150ohm version


----------



## JWAR1976

Happy new year everyone, I have decided to get myself some decent Earbuds as my current cheap generic ones are temperamental with controls, but need them to have good compatibility with both my iPhone 12 Pro (clear sound and mic, Siri even with button push if need be) and my Sony NW-A45.  I am happy to spend up to £200 for some.  Can anyone recommend some, which are suitable for use or either my devices ?

Many thanks


----------



## DBaldock9 (Jan 2, 2021)

furyossa said:


> I was thinking about LineageOS 16 for my LG G7 (android 8) but because I already have 3 dongle DAC/amp, I decide to buy a new phone. G7 has 3000mAh and with any dongle battery runs out very fast, and also because of LG Quad DAC these dongles don’t contribute much in terms of sound improvement. I find that Samsung M51 has very nice spec at a good price and IMO this is probably one of the best solution to use with any portable DAC/AMP device without internal battery.
> Of course, the selling point is battery capacity 7K mAh



*EDIT:*  LineageOS 16.0 is actually Android 9 / Pie.

Wow, the 6.7" screen on that Samsung M51 is almost as large as my Nexus 7 Tablet!
I'm just so used to having control of my rooted Android devices, that I'm a bit wary of looking at brand new devices.
But after checking the xda-developers forums, I see that apparently, it's already possible to root the M51.
.
I'm beginning to think that it might be better to root the stock Android OS on a phone, since it's likely to be more compatible (which some alternate ROMs aren't), and you can install things like Titanium Backup - which can "Freeze" apps, including the cruft that comes preinstalled by the manufacturers.  Being rooted also means you can make low level changes to the system, and modify the GUI.
.
Since Wavelet runs on stock Android, the sound of the M51 could be modified to complement your earbuds.


----------



## mtl171 (Jan 3, 2021)

*Smabat ST-10S Gold (with black foams)*

Source: Tidal/Apple Music -> Oppo HA2se (high gain)

I really really like these. After plugging them into my amp and giving them ample juice, they became my go to pair of listening things at my desk and replaced my HD650s for a while. The bass coming of things things is clean, prominent, and distinct and serves to give male vocals a very nice fullness. This also helps out a ton with certain string instruments such as cellos and violas. I find the bass also extends low enough to give you some very unexpected by appreciated subbass. While the mids aren't as pronounced as say the Datura Pro, theyre more then enough to make female vocals not feel lacking. I do wish upper mids were a bit pronounced though thats more of a personal preference. Overall, I found it was a very fun combo for listening to the Kpop.

My major gripe for the Smabat come from the treble. It definitely is a bit rolled off, which doesnt present a problem unless I'm listening to higher octave violins, flutes or horns. While you can still discern them, the timbre sounds off. I'm not quite sure how to describe it aside from that flutes too airy, and horns lacked that edge you get in real life. This did disappoint me a bit as otherwise the bass of the Smabat made the rest of the orchestra sound so good. At this point, I really had to nitpick and switch back and forth between my benchmark IEMs so I wouldn't hold it against the Smabat especially at the price point. I'm seriously impressed by how well these earbuds sound for general musical listening.

TL,DR; Amp these well and you will be in for a serious treat

EDIT2: It crossed my mind to try donut foams. upper string/woodwinds sound pretty close now, though horns are now too harsh


----------



## tgx78

Any initial impression on these?


----------



## rkw

tgx78 said:


> Any initial impression on these?


Here is the product page: https://www.linsoul.com/products/7hz-beatles
I doubt they asked permission to use the name "Beatles"  and they could get in trouble...


----------



## dissociativity

DBaldock9 said:


> Wow, the 6.7" screen on that Samsung M51 is almost as large as my Nexus 7 Tablet!


I assure you it's barely bigger than old 16:9 6" phones.


----------



## furyossa

rkw said:


> Here is the product page: https://www.linsoul.com/products/7hz-beatles
> I doubt they asked permission to use the name "Beatles"  and they could get in trouble...


Yeah right, maybe in England  In China "everything" is possible.
BTW... is ISN Audio ask Stallone for Rambo and Rambo 2  
Also, they look very similar


----------



## RikudouGoku

https://hifigo.com/blogs/news/nicehck-ebx21-latest-flagship-mmcx-in-ear-earphones-revealed



220 usd


LCP diaphragm, love it.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 1, 2022)

*Flathead Earbud Shell Types*
*by @baskingshark; @furyossa; and @WoodyLuvr*
*Picture Source: Head-Fi Archive Mostly*

_*@baskingshark* and I have greatly expanded our original post regarding earbud shell types; enjoy!
Any/all corrections and/or submissions are of course most welcome!_

*INTRO*

Since the introduction of the *Trio-Kenwood KH-0.5 “Petitphones” (32Ω)* in December 1981 and the much more well-known *Sony MDR-E252 “Fontopia” (18Ω)* in early 1982, flatheads aka earbuds have come in a wide variety of sizes and a vast array of shell housings. Many of which are actually clones of another company's original design (e.g. _Sennheiser MX500_; _NTT Docomo New Variant_; _AKG K 312_).

_*Trio-Kenwood KH-0.5 (on left); Sony MDR-E252 (on right)*_


 


*TYPES*

Earbud shells are typically categorized into four (4) general styles:

*Type I: MX500 Style* (_VE Monk; Moondrop Shiro Yuki; TY Hi-Z_) – mimicking the shell of the original _Sennheiser 2001 MX Series (MX200/300/400/500_) which along with the _AKG K 612_ shell was originally OEM’d by Foster. The MX500 shell is larger in size and diameter; protrudes outwards more; and has a longer/wider stem than a PK style shell (see comparison pic down below). MX500 has a ~16.8mm head diameter and supports a ~15.4mm driver. Please note there are many, many "other variants" which heavily borrow from and are often mistaken as being MX500 due to similar front covers, stems, and interchangeable drivers but are not (see "Type IV: Other Variants").​​​*Type II: PK Style* (_Yuin PK#; Shozy BK Stardust; Simphonio Dragon 3_) – mimicking the _New Variant NTT Docomo_ earbud circa 2006. There were actually two different types of Docomo shells developed as an accessory for a NTT Docomo mobile phone: an Old (Variant) Docomo shell (released 2005 in Japan) and a New (Variant) Docomo shell (released 2006 in Japan). The Old (Variant) Docomo shell has a long stem for the bass boost mechanism. The New Docomo shell has a flat head, a much shorter stem and has become famous for being copied and sold as the "_Yuin PK_" type shell… in fact “_Yuin PK_” was so popular that it virtually captured the shell type name as it's own. This shell type is slightly shorter with a narrower stem and a smaller diameter and head than a MX500 styled shell. The general PK shell has a ~16.1mm diameter head and is compatible with ~14.6-14.8mm drivers. Like the MX500 there are also numerous variants of the PK style (e.g. a newer variant like that used in the _NiceHCK B40 _is actually a larger modified PK-shaped shell measuring ~16.7mm nearing the size of a MX500 shell!).​​​*Type III: Bell* (_Moondrop Liebesleid; FAAEL Datura Pro; K's Poseidon/Ling_) – literally bell-shaped in shell design many would argue that before the arrival of _Moondrop’s Liebesleid_ or _K’s w/ Final Acoustics Poseidon_ there was the _Sennheiser MX98x Series (MX980/OMX980 in 2010 and in 2013 the MX985)_... the grandfather of the “bell design”? You be the judge.​​​*Type IV: Other Variant* (_Svara L_; _FiiO EM5; NiceHCK ME80;_ _Smabat ST10S Black-Gold; Rose Technics Maria; Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis; Daik DK-Song_) – this ever-expanding category includes those earbuds of radical and innovative design totally unlike that of the MX500 and PK styles to those with shells that are often mistaken as being MX500 (e.g. _Sennheiser MX760; Beyerdynamic DP100; Edifier H180 (Philips SHE3800); AKG by Harman K312 (Transcend); Qian69; Qian39 (VE Zen LL/Lite, Monk Lite, Edifier H180); RY4X_) and in some cases are mistaken for one another (e.g._ Beyerdynamic DP100 _vs_ Sennheiser MX760_). Also included in this category would be all the older earbud designs we see in the early Golden Age (1980s) to include the before mentioned _Trio-Kenwood KH-0.5_ and _Sony MDR-E252_, as well as, the _Bang & Olufsen A8_, _Aiwa HP-V743_, and the much later _Apple iPod/iPhone_ earbud models.​

*EXAMPLE PICS

Type I & II: MX500  vs  PK*
The smaller PK shell typically has two long "Cylon" looking slots/vents in the middle of the back cover while the larger MX500 shell typically has a long slot on the top outer rim with some combination of holes and short slots on the left and right side rim. However, as mentioned before, there are many slight variants of both of these shell types with various air vent, slot, and hole combinations.

*         MX500 vs. PK *(left pic)   *         MX500 (VE Monk)* (center pic)*          PK (Yuin) *(right pic)            


 

 



*NTT Docomo Old Variant = PK *(left)*                 NTT Docomo New Variant = PK *(center)*                Shozy BK Stardust = PK *(right)* 


 

 

*​*TYPE III: Bell*

*2013 Sennheiser MX985... The Original Bell? *(left)*        Moondrop Liebesleid *(center)*               K's Poseidon-Silver Edition *(right)         


 

 


*Type IV: Other Variant*

*      NiceHCK ME80* (left)*                      Smabat ST10S Black-Gold *(center)*                 Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis *(right)


 

 



*Rose Technics Maria II *(left) *and Apple Classic Earbuds *(right)
*

 




Other Variants That Are Commonly Mistaken As Being MX500

 Beyerdynamic DP100 *(Left)  * Sennheiser MX760 *(center)  *                RY4X *(right)                   


 

 

​*           AKG by HARMAN K312 *(left)*                                                                        Qian69 *(right)


 

​*                            Edifier H180 *(left)    *                                      Philips SHE3800* (center)     *            Qian39/VE Monk Lite *(right)


 

 



*COMPARISION - A Nice Example of Multiple Shell Types w/ Their Head Diameter Measurements*


----------



## sutosuto

WoodyLuvr said:


> Earbud Shell Types


Is there any way to stick this posting so it will be easy for anyone to find it among thousand postings?
Thanks


----------



## furyossa

DBaldock9 said:


> *EDIT:*  LineageOS 16.0 is actually Android 9 / Pie.
> 
> Wow, the 6.7" screen on that Samsung M51 is almost as large as my Nexus 7 Tablet!
> I'm just so used to having control of my rooted Android devices, that I'm a bit wary of looking at brand new devices.
> ...


Yup. M51 don't have a flagship processor, but all specs are more than enough if you plan to use this phone mainly for the music, and I don't think that any DAP can match the speed with this smartphone. Of course, DAP devices have other advantages.
I have no experience with rooting, and that's another reason why I want to buy a new phone. M51 will probably have support for android 11. 
I will try to root LG after I receive M51. I really like to try Wavelet. Also, It would be convenient if the USB Audio Player PRO has an integrated Wavelet.
Parametric EQ by ToneBoosters is not so bad, but Wavelet is better for sure


----------



## furyossa (Jan 2, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Earbud Shell Types*
> *by @baskingshark and @WoodyLuvr*
> *Picture Source: Head-Fi Archive Mostly*
> 
> ...


You make my day with this "memory lane" post.
I am also a big fan of shell design and I like to analyze certain aspects related to aesthetics, ergonomics, interior space, venting system etc.
Evolution of earphones is quite remarkable  It can be seen that over time they got their unique form that separates them from the original "headphone cans" look.
This certainly had to happen because the anatomy of the driver itself is quite simplified compared to headphones
Take for example Sennheiser HD414 cans. It looks very similar to Kenwood KH-0.5 shells.




Nowadays, we can see some new innovations in design, most of which are purely due to aesthetics and have no impact on the sound itself as advertised by the manufacturer. These are intended for consumers who care more about fashion than sound itself.
There are also new organic forms that use some new technologies that we don't see with headphones and vice versa. Fiio EM5 and S.e.n.f.e.r. PT2021 are the only representatives, for now, in this specific category.


----------



## DBaldock9

furyossa said:


> Yup. M51 don't have a flagship processor, but all specs are more than enough if you plan to use this phone mainly for the music, and I don't think that any DAP can match the speed with this smartphone. Of course, DAP devices have other advantages.
> I have no experience with rooting, and that's another reason why I want to buy a new phone. M51 will probably have support for android 11.
> I will try to root LG after I receive M51. I really like to try Wavelet. Also, It would be convenient if the USB Audio Player PRO has an integrated Wavelet.
> Parametric EQ by ToneBoosters is not so bad, but Wavelet is better for sure



Fortunately for you, I believe the European version of the LG V30 has a fairly easy to unlock Bootloader, so you can install TWRP and root the OS - if you want to.
Since Wavelet doesn't require a rooted phone, you should be able to get the desired sound mods for your earbuds, while using the stock OS.


----------



## furyossa

DBaldock9 said:


> Fortunately for you, I believe the European version of the LG V30 has a fairly easy to unlock Bootloader, so you can install TWRP and root the OS - if you want to.
> Since Wavelet doesn't require a rooted phone, you should be able to get the desired sound mods for your earbuds, while using the stock OS.


Thanks for the advice. 
About TWRP you mean this list. I have LG G7 and is not in the list. LG G7 ThinQ and V35 ThinQ are exactly the same except battery


----------



## DBaldock9

furyossa said:


> Thanks for the advice.
> About TWRP you mean this list. I have LG G7 and is not in the list. LG G7 ThinQ and V35 ThinQ are exactly the same except battery



When there's not an "Official" release, you have to go to the xda-developers forum, and get the "Unofficial" downloads of TWRP and LineageOS.


----------



## assassin10000

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Earbud Shell Types*
> *by @baskingshark and @WoodyLuvr*
> *Picture Source: Head-Fi Archive Mostly*
> 
> ...



You list mx500 as 16.2mm o.d. but they measure 16.8mm ± .1mm


Also there are the older PK variants which use 16.1mm shell o.d. (yuin pk) and the newer variant which are 16.7mm (b40).


----------



## mtl171

dissociativity said:


> I assure you it's barely bigger than old 16:9 6" phones.


For real. I had a LG v20 for a short while and I was shocked by how large it felt just due to its width. I guess I’m too use to taller/narrower phones. Super thin modern phone bezels also help a ton.


----------



## vygas

Nool said:


> They're not terrible, just that I think some others are better. The Rambo 2's actually have the best note weight to me, but it's got a lot against it as well, mainly the tuning and timbre.
> 
> And for the record, the differences between these buds is maybe 10-15%, not really worth stressing over, especially at higher prices where you know you'll be getting much better fidelity in IEMs.
> 
> For the record I think the x6 is less resolving, but that's probably due to the bass boost and quieter treble. Also if I didn't hear the NSC Clear the rw-9 probably would've taken its place, they're pretty close I just think the mids on the rw-9 are more recessed. Again, the differences between these are pretty minor; I've been buying buds that are already acclaimed here, so it's not surprising I haven't heard anything that sounds like outright garbage, like some of the generic "complimentary" earbuds we randomly find laying around the house, you know


Glad I sent a link to the NSC Clear your way, though I'd be interested to see how they measure on a graph. Did anyone else on this thread end up buying a pair?


----------



## baskingshark

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Earbud Shell Types*
> *by @baskingshark and @WoodyLuvr*
> *Picture Source: Head-Fi Archive Mostly*
> 
> ...



Thanks @WoodyLuvr for revamping and updating this earbud shell type post. Gotta give credit to you, you did almost 100% of the work!!! Very detailed and the pics are very useful. Hope this will benefit all earbuds enthusiasts, new and seasoned.

I think fit is a very important but overlooked aspect of earbuds, maybe even more so than IEMs. Crap fit = crap sound, no matter how good other's reviews and impressions are. Might be good to buy a few shapes of various cheap earbuds, like sub $10 USD sets, then see if the fit is suitable, then upgrade from there. I had a few friends who straight away went to buy higher end SMABAT type shells and realized they couldn't get a fit and had to sell them off.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 2, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> I think fit is a very important but overlooked aspect of earbuds, maybe even more so than IEMs. Crap fit = crap sound, no matter how good other's reviews and impressions are. Might be good to buy a few shapes of various cheap earbuds, like sub $10 USD sets, then see if the fit is suitable, then upgrade from there. I had a few friends who straight away went to buy higher end SMABAT type shells and realized they couldn't get a fit and had to sell them off.


That's exactly what I'm talking about: wasting time and money for what?
The worst thing is that some models hype so much even before they appear on sale, and their "fame" often fades before the "brake-in" period.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 2, 2021)

assassin10000 said:


> You list mx500 as 16.2mm o.d. but they measure 16.8mm ± .1mm
> 
> Also there are the older PK variants which use 16.1mm shell o.d. (yuin pk) and the newer variant which are 16.7mm (b40).


Corrected!    Thank you I was getting tired there at the end when I was inputting sizes. The MX500 head diameter was an inadvertent typo; fixed! Interesting, I honestly always thought PK was ~16.2mm but I have corrected it to ~16.1mm as you have kindly suggested. Damn, I had completely forgotten to mention the odd-ball B40... I have added a note regarding this larger variant. Unfortunately, I am unable to add any more example pics due to 25 attachment limit . Cheers.


----------



## assassin10000

WoodyLuvr said:


> Corrected!    Thank you I was getting tired there at the end when I was inputting sizes. The MX500 head diameter was an inadvertent typo; fixed! Interesting, I honestly always thought PK was ~16.2mm but I have corrected it to ~16.1mm as you have kindly suggested. Damn, I had completely forgotten to mention the odd-ball B40... I have added a note regarding this larger variant. Unfortunately, I am unable to add any more example pics due to 25 attachment limit . Cheers.



Make collage photos  fit 3-4 or more in each pic.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

assassin10000 said:


> Make collage photos  fit 3-4 or more in each pic.


Yes, that literally had just occurred to me... the ole gray matter was failing me there. Thanks.


----------



## setekh (Jan 3, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Earbud Shell Types*
> *by @baskingshark and @WoodyLuvr*
> *Picture Source: Head-Fi Archive Mostly*
> 
> ...


This is just plain awesome (and now part of my bookmarks).

Any chance you may be aware of current models using the AKG K312 type shell?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

setekh said:


> Any chance you may be aware of current models using the AKG K312 type shell?


None that I know of currently. *@jogawag *had mentioned in *this post* that K312 shell style was used by Transcend for the earbuds supplied with their DAPs back in the 2000s.


----------



## jogawag

WoodyLuvr said:


> setekh said:
> 
> 
> > This is just plain awesome (and now part of my bookmarks).
> ...


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32873676228.html


----------



## furyossa (Jan 4, 2021)

jogawag said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32873676228.html


This is the description for all TY Hi-Z family members. 
Hmmm...  the price used to be around $10 dollars and now it is $24. I like more black model in description


----------



## Mitch_maio

@WoodyLuvr sir, just to clarify, i suppose Simphonio Dragon 3 are PK-style shells, not mx500, is it correct?


----------



## The3DCie

Hi all, long time lurker and finally decided to register to Head-Fi forums, as it's such a great community for a great (and costly!) hobby.  

This is my first post here and it couldn't be anywhere else than in the earbuds thread, as I have literally discovered what an earbud could sound like through this forum!
I was mainly an IEM guy when coming here for the first time, just to see that I actually like earbuds so much more!  

I am now the proud owner of a bunch of earbuds, including Smabat M2 Pro, Yincrow RW777, TY Hi-Z32, K'S LBB, Faaeal Iris CE (the transparent one, by reading @RikudouGoku review  ), TMusic Beryllium (the wooden one), MEMT T5 (I love semi in-ear form factor, like the earpods, and have another one coming my way that I can't name here as the brand is banned it seems), Faaeal Datura X; Faaeal Datura Pro (love Faaeal stuff, my Iris CE transparent gray is on its way!), NiceHCK B40, JCALLY EP05 (the one that is sold on Smabat shop on AliExpress) and much more that I have given when they weren't to my taste.

I have a question for you earbuds lovers, how do you wear your earbuds mostly?
I have to admit that, to ensure a good seal and plenty of bass, I wear them all over ear, with the speaker turned in the direction of the ear canal, except for the JCALLY EP05 which is too large and have enough bass to be worn in a "traditional" way.

I'll try to post a photo later of the way I wear my earbuds, even if I'm sure I can't be the only one to wear them this way!

Anyway, it's a pleasure to be part of the community, and sorry for my first post, way too long for a start!


----------



## baskingshark

The3DCie said:


> Hi all, long time lurker and finally decided to register to Head-Fi forums, as it's such a great community for a great (and costly!) hobby.
> 
> This is my first post here and it couldn't be anywhere else than in the earbuds thread, as I have literally discovered what an earbud could sound like through this forum!
> I was mainly an IEM guy when coming here for the first time, just to see that I actually like earbuds so much more!
> ...



Welcome and sorry about your wallet. Thankfully, earbuds seem cheaper than headphones and IEMs in general, so probably a more affordable rabbithole to venture into?

Earbuds are difficult to give a one size fits all approach (no pun intended) when it comes to wearing them, as we have different ear anatomies. As @WoodyLuvr painstakingly described in this post (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3419#post-16078122), there are different sized shells, some may fit you, some may not. FWIW, I wear some of my earbuds with the stem facing 60 degrees anteriorly to get a better bass response. Sometimes if I feel the fit is loose (as in the bass feels distant and you can press the earbud deeper into the ear to get more bass), then I add another full foam or donut foam inside to give 2 layers of foams so as to give more padding to fit the ear.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Mitch_maio said:


> @WoodyLuvr sir, just to clarify, i suppose Simphonio Dragon 3 are PK-style shells, not mx500, is it correct?


Yes, that is indeed correct. The Simphonio Dragons use the Type II: PK Style shell. Apologies, I have no idea why I put them under MX500 ... corrected


----------



## The3DCie

baskingshark said:


> Welcome and sorry about your wallet. Thankfully, earbuds seem cheaper than headphones and IEMs in general, so probably a more affordable rabbithole to venture into?
> 
> Earbuds are difficult to give a one size fits all approach (no pun intended) when it comes to wearing them, as we have different ear anatomies. As @WoodyLuvr painstakingly described in this post (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3419#post-16078122), there are different sized shells, some may fit you, some may not. FWIW, I wear some of my earbuds with the stem facing 60 degrees anteriorly to get a better bass response. Sometimes if I feel the fit is loose (as in the bass feels distant and you can press the earbud deeper into the ear to get more bass), then I add another full foam or donut foam inside to give 2 layers of foams so as to give more padding to fit the ear.


Hi @baskingshark and thank you for your warm welcome!  

My wallet is already quite depleted now, reading these forums for about one year and a half and always "finding" new toys to test!  
But you're right, I'm fortunate enough to have fallen into the less expensive of all rabbit holes on Head-Fi, most of the good earbuds being just a few dollars.  
(which, multiplied by the number of buds to test, represents quite a few buck, but less than most IEMs which are more expensive than my whole collection!)

I've read about all the shapes from the great post done by @WoodyLuvr and you, which should be a sticky in front of this thread given its interest!  
The bell type is probably the most comfortable for me (and the less remarkable when worn outside, especially given the way I wear them...), but the MX500 and PK shells are really comfy too, it's just that you see the stem protruding when you're walking in the street, so people think you probably don't know how to use earbuds!!  

As for foams I try to use donuts foams as much as possible, to keep clarity and details to the max, but I almost always use a full foam as well to help seal better.

I even use silicon rings with my Faaeal Datura Pro (https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/4001146948880.html) to help keep the foams in place, as the all metal construction is extremely slippy on those.


----------



## rkw

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Type IV: Other Variant* (_NiceHCK ME80;_ _Smabat ST10S Black-Gold; Rose Technics Maria; Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis; Daik DK-Song_) – this ever-expanding category includes those earbuds of radical and innovative design. Surprisingly many other earbuds also fall into this category to include those with shells that are often mistaken as being "Type I: MX500" (e.g. _Sennheiser MX760; Beyerdynamic DP100; Edifier H180 (Philips SHE3800); AKG by Harman K312 (Transcend); Qian69; Qian39 (VE Zen LL/Lite); RY4X_) and/or in some cases are also mistaken for one another (e.g._ Beyerdynamic DP100 _vs_ Sennheiser MX760_). Also included would be older earbud designs to include the before mentioned _Kenwood KH-0.5_ and _Sony MDR-E252_, as well as, the _Bang & Olufsen A8_, _Aiwa HP-V743_, and all _Apple iPod Earbud_ models.​


One more for the Other Variant category: FiiO EM5


----------



## setekh

WoodyLuvr said:


> None that I know of currently. *@jogawag *had mentioned in *this post* that K312 shell style was used by Transcend for the earbuds supplied with their DAPs back in the 2000s.





jogawag said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32873676228.html





furyossa said:


> This is the description for all TY Hi-Z family members.
> Hmmm...  the price used to be around $10 dollars and now it is $24. I like more black model in description


Thanks for that!

It's a shame that the shells have basically disappeared. I find them really quite comfortable.

In any case, I at least have a couple of leads now.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

rkw said:


> One more for the Other Variant category: FiiO EM5


Added!


----------



## furyossa

setekh said:


> Thanks for that!
> 
> It's a shame that the shells have basically disappeared. I find them really quite comfortable.
> 
> In any case, I at least have a couple of leads now.


Particularly this kind of concave form increases comfort and fit, and this is rarely found with plastic shells.





Metal shells often apply a concave shape especially "Horn" type like these models




and my favorite DIY shells


----------



## furyossa (Jan 4, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Added!


And don't forget to add this one https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001936404216.html

This is the new model created from DIY shells (Reminiscent of DaturaPro)

*FENGRU ASTRAEA *
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001942449372.html


----------



## dissociativity

new PT2021? Looks like EM5 clone?


----------



## furyossa

dissociativity said:


> new PT2021? Looks like EM5 clone?


Not really but similar concept for sure


----------



## elvispreasley

Anyone listened PT2021 already, btw?


----------



## setekh

furyossa said:


> Particularly this kind of concave form increases comfort and fit, and this is rarely found with plastic shells.
> 
> 
> Metal shells often apply a concave shape especially "Horn" type like these models
> ...


OK, colour me interested. I would be up for taking a chance on one of those metal shell formats.

When you say DIY do you mean the Aliexpress type of DIY, or you with a soldering iron DIY?


----------



## wskl

furyossa said:


> And don't forget to add this one https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001936404216.html
> 
> This is the new model created from DIY shells (Reminiscent of DaturaPro)
> 
> ...



I asked ClieOS about the ASTRAEA previously, in his own words "Nothing particularly special about its sound and build quality isn't good enough to worth a recommendation".


----------



## povidlo

Trying something new with my 'buds: JVC silicone earpieces. (I typically use foamies)

Picked up JVC HA-EN10 Gumy Sport earbuds to strip them off the earpieces. They come with two sets of earpieces in different size.

Pretty pleased so far with almost iem-like improved isolation. Trying them here with Edifier H185 and Smabat ST10s Gold. 





(Pardon the color of earpieces, I'll be getting black/white ones soon. )


----------



## furyossa (Jan 4, 2021)

setekh said:


> OK, colour me interested. I would be up for taking a chance on one of those metal shell formats.
> 
> When you say DIY do you mean the Aliexpress type of DIY, or you with a soldering iron DIY?


DIY shells and parts are from Ali but assembled and tuned by me (Yes solder iron and other mambo-jumbo stuffs)
This is the list of Ali stores where you can find any part for DIY builds if you are interested in these stuffs.


----------



## furyossa

wskl said:


> I asked ClieOS about the ASTRAEA previously, in his own words "Nothing particularly special about its sound and build quality isn't good enough to worth a recommendation".


They only look good on paper, as I guessed. Price is a bit high.


----------



## hongky

povidlo said:


> Trying something new with my 'buds: JVC silicone earpieces. (I typically use foamies)
> 
> Picked up JVC HA-EN10 Gumy Sport earbuds to strip them off the earpieces. They come with two sets of earpieces in different size.
> 
> ...


Does it make the bass boomy ?


----------



## povidlo

hongky said:


> Does it make the bass boomy ?


I'd say the opposite, they make bass slightly less boomy than with foamies.

Maybe soundstage is a smidge smaller.

Generally, they're having a positive effect musically due to better seal. Less veil/more clarity. Noise isolation improved as well.


----------



## furyossa

povidlo said:


> I'd say the opposite, they make bass slightly less boomy than with foamies.
> 
> Maybe soundstage is a smidge smaller.
> 
> Generally, they're having a positive effect musically due to better seal. Less veil/more clarity. Noise isolation improved as well.


Great option for listening outside


----------



## elvispreasley

_c_


povidlo said:


> Trying something new with my 'buds: JVC silicone earpieces. (I typically use foamies)
> 
> Picked up JVC HA-EN10 Gumy Sport earbuds to strip them off the earpieces. They come with two sets of earpieces in different size.
> 
> ...



Looks like Yurbuds, but little more simple in design

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yurbuds-Re...-/381607067691?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 5, 2021)

Just arrived... the most important accessory for an earbud addict, bar none! ---_I was referring to earbud foams in general and not the Hiegi brand specifically_





*HongKong Hiegi Electronics Co.,Limited*


----------



## furyossa (Jan 5, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Just arrived... the most important accessory for an earbud addict, bar none!
> 
> 
> *HongKong Hiegi Electronics Co.,Limited*


And they are definitely for listening indoors  . Can you describe the difference in foam material between them and these standard ones that come with earbuds?
I'm surprised that no one has yet thought of making a hybrid version: where the material around the rim would be rubberized and on the front as foam


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 30, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Can you describe the difference in foam material between them and these standard ones that come with earbuds?
> I'm surprised that no one has yet thought of making a hybrid version: where the material around the rim would be rubberized and on the front as foam





WoodyLuvr said:


> I have tried nearly everything under the moon when it comes to earbud foams (covers/pads) the past one and a half years. Besides thickness (thin, medium, thick); gauge (small vs large hole); style (full vs. donut); and color (a plethora of available colors... no exaggeration here) I rarely have come across any real major difference between foam brands. Notably, my best foams have been the cheapest ones that I have bought off AliExpress in bulk... go figure! Yes, there have been a few (a very few) that were poorly made but the ultra-common consistency in materials used has led me to believe that only a handful of factories are actually manufacturing them.


For me there has not been that much of a sonic and/or material difference between foam brands (though please note that I have poor hearing from a combination of malarial fever and exposure to bomb blasts/gun-fire/helicopters). With that said, I have found that the material quality of Hiegi is ever so slightly better. Here in the tropics the Hiegi foams tend to rip less easily as I have found them to be less susceptible to dry rot (from being in air conditioned environments). I really do believe that there may be only 2-3 factories producing the foam material (of very limited difference) used by only a handful of factories manufacturing earbud foams.


----------



## RikudouGoku

povidlo said:


> Trying something new with my 'buds: JVC silicone earpieces. (I typically use foamies)
> 
> Picked up JVC HA-EN10 Gumy Sport earbuds to strip them off the earpieces. They come with two sets of earpieces in different size.
> 
> ...


Can you buy those "tips" separately?


----------



## povidlo

RikudouGoku said:


> Can you buy those "tips" separately?



Looked, no luck.

Yurbuds tips are sold separately but it works out to be even costlier than stripping JVCs off of theirs. Have not tried those yet.

Looks like you have some good deals locally: (there are two sets of different size tips included in each package) 
https://www.amazon.se/JVC-Ear-hörlurar-fjärrkontroll-mikrofon/dp/B01N3A3S22
https://www.amazon.se/JVC-Ear-hörlurar-fjärrkontroll-mikrofon/dp/B01MTF8Z10


----------



## RikudouGoku

povidlo said:


> Looked, no luck.
> 
> Yurbuds tips are sold separately but it works out to be even costlier than stripping JVCs off of theirs. Have not tried those yet.
> 
> ...


Probably fakes though.




Since those on amazon costs around 7 usd lol.


----------



## povidlo

RikudouGoku said:


> Probably fakes though.
> 
> 
> Since those on amazon costs around 7 usd lol.


Might be. Could order from Amazon directly for a bit more, but should be safe then.


----------



## RikudouGoku

povidlo said:


> Might be. Could order from Amazon directly for a bit more, but should be safe then.


Although to be honest. After getting the Victor HA-MX100V (headphones), it pretty much killed the purpose of my earbuds lol.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 5, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Although to be honest. After getting the Victor HA-MX100V (headphones), it pretty much killed the purpose of my earbuds lol.


Said as both your Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis and Yincrow X6 earbuds skip town searching for a new home... completely your fault as you well know how sensitive earbuds can be! No pun intended.

I believe a keelhauling is in order to help straighten out your priorities sir.


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Said as both your Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis and Yincrow X6 earbuds skip town searching for a new home... completely your fault as you well know how sensitive earbuds can be! No pun intended.


Well, at least the X6 has a different sound than the vocal/acoustic music focused MX100V.


----------



## The3DCie (Jan 5, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Although to be honest. After getting the Victor HA-MX100V (headphones), it pretty much killed the purpose of my earbuds lol.


For me it's the exact opposite, since I finally tried earbuds (after dismissing them for so long, thinking it was a thing of the past!) my other gears collect dust, be they headphones (yet I have some I really love) or IEMs.

It's quite simple, I almost never buy a new IEM these days (and even less headphones, the last one was the famous Fidelio X2HR, which I liked but it was too big for my head), the last I have been getting were either not worth it for me (CCA CA16, TRN V90s...) or I like how they sound but there is always this fit problem ("stethoscope effect" sometimes or I have to put them back in place too often when walking, which is a BIG let down).

With earbuds I don't have any of those problems above, they fit well (except Smabat earbuds, unfortunately for me, as they sound so good) and have sound profiles I like, even if they aren't probably as technical as IEMs. But when I'm listening to my music, I'm rarely in "analyze mode" and I just enjoy what plays at that moment.
And sometimes earbuds help me to ear things that are masked by other frequencies on IEMs and you rediscover your music.   

Anyway I really can't complain, I have found (via Head-Fi, thanks again to all of you and your great talk about these earbuds!) what suits me best  and I'm fortunate enough to like the least expensive gears in this hobby, perfect for my wallet!


----------



## BigErik

Hey just to give you guys the heads up between 1:11 and 1:15 nice hck is releasing the ebx21.what's the nice store on alley that has like 35,000 followers and that is another nice store that has like 1500 followers. As far as I know the one that has 35,000 even though the other one is advertising it but not saying anything. Erik


----------



## iemhater

RikudouGoku said:


> Well, at least the X6 has a different sound than the vocal/acoustic music focused MX100V.



Just got my shipment of earbuds today.

Thanks for recommending the diy nicehck mx500. It is much better than my ve monk plus and I can hear the bass down to 25 hz while the ve monk is inaudible at below 70 hz. It sounds almost as good as tomahawk at 1/3rd the price.


----------



## waynes world

RikudouGoku said:


> Well, at least the X6 has a different sound than the vocal/acoustic music focused MX100V.



Just got my X6's. Huh!


----------



## The3DCie

waynes world said:


> Just got my X6's. Huh!


I wonder if I should try those Yincrow?

Even if I own the Faaeal Iris CE transparent white and have the Faaeal Iris CE transparent gray coming in a few days (as they are said on Faaeal shop on AE to have different tuning?), my preferred MX500 earbud is by far the TY Hi-Z 32, which are a pure gem to my ears!  
And I will have to buy another pair as I don't seem to find where I put them the last time I used them, could I have lost them???


----------



## waynes world

The3DCie said:


> I wonder if I should try those Yincrow?
> 
> Even if I own the Faaeal Iris CE transparent white and have the Faaeal Iris CE transparent gray coming in a few days (as they are said on Faaeal shop on AE to have different tuning?), my preferred MX500 earbud is by far the TY Hi-Z 32, which are a pure gem to my ears!
> And I will have to buy another pair as I don't seem to find where I put them the last time I used them, could I have lost them???



I need more time with them to be sure that I love them as much as I initially think I do


----------



## MelodyMood

WoodyLuvr said:


> B40 is one of those earbuds where "fit is everything". It truly needs to be perfect (proper fit) for the bass to come out and play. Did you try different foam types and thicknesses? Many have had luck with double foaming (using thin types) or a donut foam on top of a full foam... you might try that and see if that "thin sound" is solved  . They were a tad frustrating (disappointing) for me as well until I figured the fit out. Cheers.



It is earbud so I don't think it has any fitting issue. You cannot push it inside your ear canal that it will have more bass or sound.  I did not try Double Foam but will try. However, that will make it more inconvenient to use in my view.


----------



## mtl171 (Jan 24, 2021)

*TY Hi-Z HP-32 (with foams) 2.5mm*

Source: Apple Music (PC) -> Shanling M3S (2.5mm balanced out) -> Earbuds
This one was recommended to me by another member on the thread, lackOfInspiration. I'm not the biggest fan of these. Personally I find the sound signature is a bit too rolled off near the top especially in the treble. In some cases, the roll off is severe enough to almost completing removing horns in some orchestral pieces and changing the tone of female vocalists. However, these work well with EDM tracks or other male vocalists or anything that leverages bass/lower mids. The bass is decent and not muddy. I did run into some clipping with uppermids at my normal listening volume though I'm not sure if thats just my sample or a common problem. If you're looking for something affordable and prefer a warmer sound signature, these will probably fit the bill. However, if you prefer a more mid/vocal emphasis I'd still suggest the Faael Snow Lotus 1.0+ CE.

EDIT2: It turns out I had a combination of driver issues using my DAP as a DAC, and not turning the volume up enough oops. Turned up to proper listening volume, these balance themselves out quite a bit. You end up with decent mids and a nice prominent bass. The upper mids can be a bit piercy if you crank it up the volume too much tho. I still wouldnt recommend this for orchestral musics as it feels like the driver can be a bit overwhelmed. However, it does great with a bass line in pop music.

EDIT: I did try them without foams. It just sounded really odd (warm plus sharp thin treble) and didn't help much.


----------



## cappuchino (Jan 7, 2021)

Been listening to the *Headroom MS16 *and I do think it's quite good for the $4 I paid. I'm going foamless and grill-less on these (see pic below). In my case, these are very comfortable and disappear in your ear. Bass is clean and isn't overly done (e.g. midbass elevation in red Vido). Early roll-off as reminiscent of buds in this price range. Distortion at higher volumes and heavy load but I usually listen at low volume, so not a problem. Mids are rich and lush. Very forward. I might even say that these may even be midcentric. Highs are polite and soft. Not splashy but definitely takes a step back. Soundstage and imaging is what sets these apart from my other buds. Holographic. Separation is so-so, may be average to below average.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

MelodyMood said:


> It is earbud so I don't think it has any fitting issue. You cannot push it inside your ear canal that it will have more bass or sound.  I did not try Double Foam but will try. However, that will make it more inconvenient to use in my view.


Good day. I believe you may have misunderstood my point (apologies if I was unclear). Perhaps the B40 shell type may not fit *your ear *and/or it may require some serious fiddling around with foams to get a better fit to your ear. I was not implying that an earbud should be fitted like an IEM. Earbuds however do have their own fitting requirements... not nearly as critical as with IEMs but nonetheless do require a proper fit in their own right as do all head/earphones. This has been discussed, at great lengths, throughout the history of this thread (here are two examples that you might find helpful regarding "earbud fitting": *Post #26,082* and *Post #22,897*. I do encourage you to try various foam combinations to see if that helps. I am unclear as to why "double foam" would be an "inconvenience"? Please explain further so I may offer some input on that  . Cheers.


----------



## Toom

Cross-posting from the EM5 thread :

Received the EM5s today and using the balanced foams, I find them to be an easy fit and to sound really great, very natural and musical. Certainly the best sounding set of earbuds I have used - best I had before these being the Senn MX985s.

What I love about these - and earbuds in general - over IEMs is that sense of natural space they bring to music. Even the best IEMs - I have the Solaris 2020 for example - struggle to transcend a kind of claustrophobic, inside the head presentation that earbuds by dint of their open nature tend not to have. The soundstage of the EM5s is much more expansive than the Solaris, while at the same time having a mid-forward signature that doesn't sacrifice intimacy.

Where the Solaris beat it is in resolution and clarity - the EM5s can't compete on that front. But they do have a more musical flavour that is arguably more enjoyable.

Overall, early impressions are hugely positive.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 7, 2021)

Toom said:


> Cross-posting from the EM5 thread :
> 
> Received the EM5s today and using the balanced foams, I find them to be an easy fit and to sound really great, very natural and musical. Certainly the best sounding set of earbuds I have used - best I had before these being the Senn MX985s.
> 
> ...


Outstanding! Always nice when one stumbles upon a gem . My DQSM Audio Turandots just arrived today; looking forward to using them here shortly.

What model year are (were) your Senn MX985 earbuds as I have heard that certain model years are more "tinny" sounding than others and that the debut year model (c2013) is considered the best sounding (if at all true).


----------



## Toom

WoodyLuvr said:


> Outstanding! Always nice when one stumbles upon a gem . My DQSM Audio Turandots just arrived today; looking forward to using them here shortly.
> 
> What model year are (were) your Senn MX985 earbuds as I have heard that certain model years are more "tinny" sounding than others and that the debut year model (c2013) is considered the best sounding (if at all true).



Ah, I don't have the Senns anymore so no idea in that. They didn't sound tinny at all though. it was a few years ago now, and I have been an IEM guy since then, so the EM5s are like a blast from the past but also a refreshing change.


----------



## baskingshark

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001949287345.html

Cat Ear Mimi earbuds
$15 USD











Anybody tried this set? Looks affordable enough to do a blind purchase. May get it at the next sale.


----------



## The3DCie

baskingshark said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001949287345.html
> 
> Cat Ear Mimi earbuds
> $15 USD
> ...


Don't like the shell but I'd be interested to hear (pun intended) about how they sound!


----------



## baskingshark

The3DCie said:


> Don't like the shell but I'd be interested to hear (pun intended) about how they sound!



I think this Cat Ear brand is relatively new, haven't seen them churn out earbuds before. I'll probably be buying this earbud at the next sale if the discount is good enough (and must hide it from the wife when it comes!)

The Cat Ear brand did release an IEM recently called the Cat Ear Mia: https://hifigo.com/products/catear-mia

One of the rare reviews here: https://www.audioreviews.org/cat-ear-mia-review-kmm/
Seems to be a V shaped IEM and from reviews, looks meh (haven't heard it though, but gave it a miss after reading reviews). Interestingly, for this Cat Ear Mia IEM, they were mewing (no pun intended) about using -196℃ cryogenic treatment for the cable, connectors and driver units. Smells gimmickish. While diehard audiophiles are doing "burn in" for their gear, this company is doing "freeze in" LOL.


----------



## wskl

baskingshark said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001949287345.html
> 
> Cat Ear Mimi earbuds
> $15 USD
> ...



A few reviews here:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/cat-ear-audio-mimi.24833/reviews


----------



## The3DCie (Jan 7, 2021)

Ok, coming back to my first post here, I thought it might be the time to show of how I'm wearing almost all of my earbuds, the exception being the JCALLY EP-05, which is too big to be worn as the others in my collection and even sounds better worn "the classic way" as it's too bassy otherwise.

So here are a couple of photos of the various buds in my ear (sorry, I'm not a top-model!) :


Spoiler: My ears with a lot of different earbuds!



Faaeal Iris CE:


Better have a transparent shell with the MX500 style as you will look weird in the street!  

Faaeal Datura Pro:


HeadRoom MS16:


K'S LBW:

That's why I prefer earbuds without stem, they are the most comfortable for the way I wear them, and they sound great!

MEMT T5:

The "Earpod style" can be worn cable down without a problem but you get better bass this way, at least that's the case for me.

NiceHCK B40:

The shorter stem of PK shell is more comfortable for me.

TMusic Beryllium:

Again, almost no stem=winner!

Yincrow RW-777:

Love those!

And, for the record, the weirdest looking earbuds when worn cable up, Apple Earpods themselves!

Those have tremendous bass when worn this way, don't forget to put a beany on your head if you're out in the street!!


That's it for now, hope it can help some of you that would think, like me the first time I used earbuds, that they lack bass or everything!
It was an eye-opener for me and I wouldn't want to go back after that.  

P.S. : Sorry for the long post and all those photos of my ears, I'd have much preferred to find another way to show this wearing style!...


----------



## WoodyLuvr

The3DCie said:


> P.S. : Sorry for the long post and all those photos of my ears, I'd have much preferred to find another way to show this wearing style!...


Great post; thank you for sharing! If you feel a post is a bit too lengthy you can always re-edit and insert a clickable Spoiler... maybe just above the first pic... that way the pics are hidden until the Spoiler is opened (clicked) by the viewer.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 7, 2021)

The3DCie said:


> Ok, coming back to my first post here, I thought it might be the time to show of how I'm wearing almost all of my earbuds, the exception being the JCALLY EP-05, which is too big to be worn as the others in my collection and even sounds better worn "the classic way" as it's too bassy otherwise.
> 
> So here are a couple of photos of the various buds in my ear (sorry, I'm not a top-model!) :
> 
> ...


Thanx for these photos. Good timing
Right now I'm working on my DIY coupler for imm-6 mic and your photos are good references. They make it easier to see the driver's orientation towards the ear canal. 30-60% of the sound goes directly into the ear canal, and in most cases where there are side vents, 50% of the vents is blocked by the ear, for example MX500 shells (one side is free and the other is blocked)


----------



## rprodrigues

baskingshark said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001949287345.html
> 
> Cat Ear Mimi earbuds
> $15 USD
> ...



Here...


----------



## The3DCie

WoodyLuvr said:


> Great post; thank you for sharing! If you feel a post is a bit too lengthy you can always re-edit and insert a clickable Spoiler... maybe just above the first pic... that way the pics are hidden until the Spoiler is opened (clicked) by the viewer.


Done, thanks, it's much better like this!


----------



## TnV26

Hi guys, I need a suggestion which earbuds to buy.

First of all, sorry if my English and explanation is messed up.

I normally use IEM and headphone but now looking for the earbuds for listening before bed and can aware of the surrounding. I just bought VE Monk+ for test, it's quite OK but I want something sound better and smaller shell is a plus.

I listen to many genres but mainly rock. The budget is around 100$ - 200$ or lower.

The sound signature I am looking for are:
- can feel some sub-bass (I know it kinda hard for earbuds)
- good bass impact
- quite flat (no boost in any region too much)
- good on note separation and micro details

As a reference, my gears are
Source: Dethonray DTR1, Lotoo P6k, Qudelix 5k
IEM/HP: InEar PP8, ER2XR, Hifiman Ananda.

Please provide the recommendations, anything on par with ER2XR is good for me.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Toom

TnV26 said:


> Hi guys, I need a suggestion which earbuds to buy.
> 
> First of all, sorry if my English and explanation is messed up.
> 
> ...



Fiio EM5. Outside your budget, but I can recommend them totally.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Dec 22, 2021)

I received my *DQSM Audio Turandot (16Ω); 2.5TRRS Balanced *earbuds (_112 dB/mW; 13.5mm Carbon Nanotube Dynamic Driver; Zinc-Magnesium Alloy PK Style Shell; 2.5mm Balanced Plug_) from Jim @ NiceHCK Audio Store. Very speedy delivery as always!




_via *FiiO BTR5* 2.5mm balanced output_​
These earbuds are aptly named after the Puccini (Alfano) three act opera Turandot which includes the best-known aria "Nessun dorma".



Slippery boogers when trying to fit 'em with foams, most especially if donuts... oh my what a chore as my fingers are none too nimble!   A very well made earbud; extremely comfortable to wear; and they sound exceptional. Their sound reminds me a little bit of my Blurs but not as mid-centric... definitely more mid-forward the DQSM Audio Turandots are neither overly bright nor overly warm, although perhaps they can be a tad aggressive. The midrange and treble initially sound similar to the Sennhesier HD600/650 but with time you can tell they are actually mid-forward... slightly thicker in the lower-mids and dry sounding (which can come across boring to some)... inoffensively more prominent in the middle-mids... aggressive in the upper-mids... and noticeably peaky in the treble but again not necessarily sibilant or overly bright. They offer a very large soundstage and good timbre (especially in the separation of instruments). Sub-bass and bass of course is no where to that of the Smabat ST-10S as it lacks some heft in the notes (it has no punch/impact, like most earbuds), but the bass is still very defined, clear, and enjoyable. Truly an all-rounder for most music genres. I have been using them now for over five months and there has been absolutely no fatigue to speak of which was exactly what I was after... thank you @ClieOS for, yet again, another spot-on recommendation.


Spoiler: Turandot Porn



*DQSM Audio Turandot via balanced 2.5TRRS Balanced output on a FiiO BTR5 USB BT DAC headAMP*





*Fiio BTR5 USB BT DAC headAMP *specs:
DAC: Dual ESS 9218PC
BT: CSR8675 BT 5.0
USB: XMOS XUF208
Single-Ended Ouput (3.5mm SE): Max Output (Vrms): 1.6V; 80 mW @ 32Ω; 8.5mW @ 300Ω
Balanced Output (2.5mm TRRS): Max Output (Vrms): 2.8V; 240mW @ 32Ω; 26mW @ 300Ω


----------



## WoodyLuvr

TnV26 said:


> Hi guys, I need a suggestion which earbuds to buy.
> 
> First of all, sorry if my English and explanation is messed up.
> 
> ...


*Smabat ST-10s*


----------



## TnV26

Toom said:


> Fiio EM5. Outside your budget, but I can recommend them totally.



Thanks for the suggestion. I maybe looking for the used one.



WoodyLuvr said:


> *Smabat ST-10s*



Very interesting. Just search and found that it have 2 versions (40 and 150 Ohm). 
Does it sound different?
Is the 150 Ohm is better due to it pricier?


----------



## The3DCie (Jan 7, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> I received my *DQSM Turandot 2.5TRRS Balanced (16Ω; 112 dB/mW; 13.5mm Carbon Nanotube Dynamic Driver; Zinc-Magnesium Alloy PK Style Shell)* earbuds from Jim @ NiceHCK Audio Store. Very speedy delivery as always!
> 
> Slippery boogers when trying to fit 'em with foams, most especially if donuts... oh my what a chore as my fingers are none too nimble!


Ha ha, I know what you mean, I had the exact same problem with my Faaeal Datura Pro, which are made entirely of metal (unlike the Datura X, which have a rubber ring in addition to the plastic front shelf) and are slippery as hell!   
I even bought rubber rings on AE to help keep the donut foams in place.  


Edit: And I'd love to hear those DQSM Turandot, they look gorgeous and I really like the PK style shell!  
But they are still a lot pricier than what I can shell out for a pair of buds, plus I have to admit those I already own fill more than what I need!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 7, 2021)

TnV26 said:


> Very interesting. Just search and found that it have 2 versions (40 and 150 Ohm).
> Does it sound different?
> Is the 150 Ohm is better due to it pricier?


Price is not the answer here but rather the effect of impedance. Many believe the Black-Gold 150Ω requires an amp to sound its best. So if you are planning to use it from a mobile source like a smartphone or a weak DAP then we would recommend the 40Ω model instead.  The following are some nice comparisons between the models posted by our resident expert (god-tier level earbud authority) known as @ClieOS



ClieOS said:


> ST-10S Black Gold is _*absolutely stunning*_, but it required a decent source with a bit of power. Driving it from a weak source, while still sounds good, won't likely going to be its best. In comparison, ST-10 is slightly drier - think of it as closer to ER4S tuning while ST-10S Black Glod is somewhere in between ER4P and ER4S.
> 
> As for ST-10S Black SIlver - it is more like a smoothed down ER4P. But last I heard, Smabat might be doing a small reversion to improve its treble so it can be closer to the original ST-10 tuning, as requested by many of ST-10 original users.





ClieOS said:


> It is a ToTL on its own right. While the original ST-10 might sounds a little dry for some, technically it is almost as good as any earbud. ST-10S Black Gold just improves upon its by a slight retuning that gives it just enough warmth without taking away the neutralness, with also an improvement on a more immersive soundstage.


----------



## mtl171

TnV26 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. I maybe looking for the used one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There's a full comparison between the gold and silver somewhere in this thread, though I can't find the actual post right now. From what I remember reading, the black gold is warmer but requires a amp to reach full potential.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3197#post-15619341

I do own the Smabat ST-10s black/gold and comes close to your criteria for sound signature. However, it is slightly rolled off in the treble and it definitely has a warm tilt. I can't speak for if its comparable to your ER2XR. Though I will say it was good enough to not have me reaching for my ER4XR and HD650.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

NiceHCK EBX21
https://a.aliexpress.com/_A6DjPv


----------



## furyossa

Alex.Grimm said:


> NiceHCK EBX21
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_A6DjPv


The "REAL"  price is really fascinating. Last week the price was $209 and now with a 30% discount it is $229


----------



## Nool

Wow, several months later they replied. Looks like the YY BK2 uses a plain PET diaphragm. Interesting.

Also I moved the yincrow RW-9 up in my list, they're all good. I'm noticing some midbass on the NSC clear that seems to be absent from the RW-9, leading to better low-end presentation on the RW-9, though I enjoy the accentuated mids/treble on the NSC clear. It really comes down to preference.

Tl;dr
X6 for bassheads, plain warm with well executed bass boost. Overall resolution is just average.

RW-9 is similar to X6 with a little less bass and a little more upper mids/treble. Slightly better resolution.

NSC Clear has less bass than RW-9 but mids are more prominent. Might have too much midbass; the bass on the RW-9 seems better controlled. About the same resolution as the RW-9. It also sounds more airy, probably a spike somewhere 10khz-20khz range. Neutral with a little warmth.

All three have similar soundstage.

I still think the BK2 is the best choice for anyone who wants a clean neutral signature, though it has no warmth to its bass, so definitely not for bassheads, and it also has a smaller soundstage. But it has the best resolution and timbre imo.

If I had to recommend anything it'd be the RW-9 and BK2. At higher prices, you're going to get much better fidelity in IEMs.

Also found this old comparison of the X6 and RW-9 posted by Sam L, figure I'd repost it, seems accurate to my ears.


----------



## baskingshark

furyossa said:


> The "REAL"  price is really fascinating. Last week the price was $209 and now with a 30% discount it is $229



Usual Aliexpress tricks. I've noticed before a big sale, they suddenly jack up the price by 50% or more, then they put a "50% discount" for the actual sale, so it evens out LOL. Some new folks to the hobby will see 50% discount and pull the trigger unwittingly.


----------



## povidlo

baskingshark said:


> Usual Aliexpress tricks. I've noticed before a big sale, they suddenly jack up the price by 50% or more, then they put a "50% discount" for the actual sale, so it evens out LOL. Some new folks to the hobby will see 50% discount and pull the trigger unwittingly.


Price history for Aliexpress:
https://www.pricearchive.org/


----------



## cappuchino

There's a shop selling the Tingo TC200 drivers - 5 pairs for $8. Don't know if they're just riding on the hype on these but they _are_ a well known and reliable shop... link 



Spoiler: TC200 Driver


----------



## furyossa

sub30 said:


> There's a shop selling the Tingo TC200 drivers - 5 pairs for $8. Don't know if they're just riding on the hype on these but they _are_ a well known and reliable shop... link
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: TC200 Driver


This is original TC200 driver (shell is modified MX500)


----------



## cappuchino

furyossa said:


> This is original TC200 driver (shell is modified MX500)


Looks quite similar to me.


----------



## furyossa

sub30 said:


> Looks quite similar to me.


Yup. The glue is the only difference that I noticed but be sure to check the specs


----------



## TnV26

WoodyLuvr said:


> Price is not the answer here but rather the effect of impedance. Many believe the Black-Gold 150Ω requires an amp to sound its best. So if you are planning to use it from a mobile source like a smartphone or a weak DAP then we would recommend the 40Ω model instead.  The following are some nice comparisons between the models posted by our resident expert (god-tier level earbud authority) known as @ClieOS



Thanks for the input and quote from ClieOS. Really appreciated 



mtl171 said:


> There's a full comparison between the gold and silver somewhere in this thread, though I can't find the actual post right now. From what I remember reading, the black gold is warmer but requires a amp to reach full potential.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3197#post-15619341
> 
> I do own the Smabat ST-10s black/gold and comes close to your criteria for sound signature. However, it is slightly rolled off in the treble and it definitely has a warm tilt. I can't speak for if its comparable to your ER2XR. Though I will say it was good enough to not have me reaching for my ER4XR and HD650.



I'm sold when you say ST-10s make you not reaching for the ER4XR, that also one of my favorite IEM.

Just ordered the Black/Gold version from Aliexpress for 97$. I don't know it's good deal or not but the price is acceptable.

Thanks again for all the advice


----------



## mtl171

TnV26 said:


> I'm sold when you say ST-10s make you not reaching for the ER4XR, that also one of my favorite IEM.
> 
> Just ordered the Black/Gold version from Aliexpress for 97$. I don't know it's good deal or not but the price is acceptable.
> 
> Thanks again for all the advice


Its a different sound for sure but still fun to listen to in its own way. If I had to come up with a comparison, I'd probably say similar to HD650s with better quality bass. You can even get decent treble extension if you opt for donut foams but it does get a sibilant at time.

Thats a great price! I paid $149 shipped on Penon Audio a month ago. Hope you get them soon!


----------



## waynes world

TnV26 said:


> Thanks for the input and quote from ClieOS. Really appreciated
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Seems like a good price for the Black/Gold's! Link please?


----------



## TnV26

mtl171 said:


> Its a different sound for sure but still fun to listen to in its own way. If I had to come up with a comparison, I'd probably say similar to HD650s with better quality bass. You can even get decent treble extension if you opt for donut foams but it does get a sibilant at time.
> 
> Thats a great price! I paid $149 shipped on Penon Audio a month ago. Hope you get them soon!



Well, it should be great for the price and having HD650 sound signature.



waynes world said:


> Seems like a good price for the Black/Gold's! Link please?



Here the link: https://a.aliexpress.com/_msLhiih

You will get total 14$ discount by collect the store coupon for 4$ discount and use the code during check out for another 10$ discount.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

TnV26 said:


> Here the link: https://a.aliexpress.com/_msLhiih
> 
> You will get total 14$ discount by collect the store coupon for 4$ discount and use the code during check out for another 10$ discount.


This is just one example (of many) of the helpful camaraderie and friendliness of our group and why we have the most "bad a@$!" thread on Head-Fi. I really appreciate and am sincerely thankful of that as it makes my day, everyday to visit the thread. Cheers and respects to all.


----------



## waynes world

TnV26 said:


> Well, it should be great for the price and having HD650 sound signature.
> Here the link: https://a.aliexpress.com/_msLhiih
> You will get total 14$ discount by collect the store coupon for 4$ discount and use the code during check out for another 10$ discount.



Thanks a lot!!! My favorite store too! It comes out to $128.44 CAD, which is the best price I've seen for them. They would be my most expensive buds, but I've been lusting after them for a while (I have their ancestors, the Svara L 32 omh which I love), so now might be time (re-reading those quotes from ClieOS are not helping lol).

Anyway, done! I think I deserve them  



WoodyLuvr said:


> Price is not the answer here but rather the effect of impedance. Many believe the Black-Gold 150Ω requires an amp to sound its best. So if you are planning to use it from a mobile source like a smartphone or a weak DAP then we would recommend the 40Ω model instead.  The following are some nice comparisons between the models posted by our resident expert (god-tier level earbud authority) known as @ClieOS



They will indeed sound awesome off of my desktop amp. And hopefully they will sound okay off of my bluetooth receiver (BTRK3 balanced). Someday I hope to also get the Qudelix 5K which will hopefully push them nicely.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

waynes world said:


> Anyway, done! I think I deserve them


You sure do!


waynes world said:


> They will indeed sound awesome off of my desktop amp. And hopefully they will sound okay off of my bluetooth receiver (BTRK3 balanced). Someday I hope to also get the Qudelix 5K which will hopefully push them nicely.


*FYI* - Last night I compared my new BTR5 with my buddy's older BTR3K with all my earbuds and I honestly could not differentiate between the two (disclaimer: I suffer minor hearing loss and tinnitus). With that said, I do believe your BTR3K will drive your incoming Smabat ST-10S Black-Gold 150Ω earbuds beautifully.


----------



## sutosuto

There will be AE winter sale coming in 3 days if you can wait for cheaper price.


----------



## TnV26

sutosuto said:


> There will be AE winter sale coming in 3 days if you can wait for cheaper price.



Hmmm...seem like I need another earbuds recommendation


----------



## wskl

sutosuto said:


> There will be AE winter sale coming in 3 days if you can wait for cheaper price.



You are absolutely correct, I just checked NiceHCK store and they have displayed their Winter sale prices.

ST-10s black/gold will be selling for $83, even cheaper with coupons.






Tagging @waynes world


----------



## Toom

Are there any hooks or equivalent that would work with the Fiio EM5?


----------



## TnV26

wskl said:


> You are absolutely correct, I just checked NiceHCK store and they have displayed their Winter sale prices.
> 
> ST-10s black/gold will be selling for $83, even cheaper with coupons.
> 
> Tagging @waynes world



The discount banner didn't show up before I ordered it.

So, I was surprised that they manage to ship my order so fast after an hour of purchased. They don't want me to cancel the order 

@waynes world hope you can manage to cancel and re-order after sell.


----------



## baskingshark (Jan 8, 2021)

wskl said:


> You are absolutely correct, I just checked NiceHCK store and they have displayed their Winter sale prices.
> 
> ST-10s black/gold will be selling for $83, even cheaper with coupons.
> 
> ...



$83 USD *before* stacking coupons for the Black Gold is a superb price! Dang!
FWIW I saw it at $86 *after *a lot of coupon gymnastics at the 11/11 sale.


----------



## baskingshark

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001942449372.html

Fengru Astraea
Looks like a Faaeal Datura Pro, but detachable!


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> You sure do!
> 
> *FYI* - Last night I compared my new BTR5 with my buddy's older BTR3K with all my earbuds and I honestly could not differentiate between the two (disclaimer: I suffer minor hearing loss and tinnitus). With that said, I do believe your BTR3K will drive your incoming Smabat ST-10S Black-Gold 150Ω earbuds beautifully.


Is there any difference between  BTR3K and BTR5 other than the appearance?


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Is there any difference between  BTR3K and BTR5 other than the appearance?


You can check this thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...-8-jul-20-qudelix-5k-impression-added.906655/


----------



## furyossa (Jan 8, 2021)

It seems to me that these are "new arrivals" DAC/AMP ... or not 
- DDHiFi TC44B (USB-C to 2.5mm/4.4mm) - unusual decision to use 2 balanced outputs without SE option
- iBasso DC04 (USB-C to 4.4mm)
- Hidizs H2 (BT 5.0 Rx)
- LOCONAQ A1 (USB-C TypeC to 3.5mm)
- HiBy FD1 (USB-C to 3.5mm/4.4mm


----------



## furyossa (Jan 8, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001942449372.html
> 
> Fengru Astraea
> Looks like a Faaeal Datura Pro, but detachable!


We already commented on this model the other day. About design: It's more something between Datura Pro and Datura X (discontinued model)
Datura X also have vent on the bottom (3 holes). Datura X steam is long and narrow and on Astraea we have MMCX sockets so there is no additional vent.
Datura Pro has better vent system as traditional 2 x 3 vent holes (on the side walls of the shell) and stem is additional vent


----------



## waynes world

WoodyLuvr said:


> You sure do!
> 
> *FYI* - Last night I compared my new BTR5 with my buddy's older BTR3K with all my earbuds and I honestly could not differentiate between the two (disclaimer: I suffer minor hearing loss and tinnitus). With that said, I do believe your BTR3K will drive your incoming Smabat ST-10S Black-Gold 150Ω earbuds beautifully.



Awesome! Thanks.



wskl said:


> You are absolutely correct, I just checked NiceHCK store and they have displayed their Winter sale prices.
> 
> ST-10s black/gold will be selling for $83, even cheaper with coupons.
> 
> ...



Thank you! They have great customer support, so I left them a message. But around the same time I was leaving the message, I got an email indicating that they've been shipped, so I doubt anything can be done. I'm good though, and I'm happy for others who get them for that great price!


----------



## TnV26

Toom said:


> Fiio EM5. Outside your budget, but I can recommend them totally.





waynes world said:


> Thank you! They have great customer support, so I left them a message. But around the same time I was leaving the message, I got an email indicating that they've been shipped, so I doubt anything can be done. I'm good though, and I'm happy for others who get them for that great price!



I'm thinking that I may be buy another silver one for comparison if it has a really good deal.

By the way, I saw someone mentioned about the AliExpress seller increase the price before the sale period and here what I found.




What are their marketing strategy? 
Maybe "Buy it NOW! before we increase the price on sale event"


----------



## RikudouGoku

TnV26 said:


> I'm thinking that I may be buy another silver one for comparison if it has a really good deal.
> 
> By the way, I saw someone mentioned about the AliExpress seller increase the price before the sale period and here what I found.
> 
> ...


Probably because during sales, coupons are available so it should still be cheaper than normal. 

But this strategy is quite new I think, I dont remember this being used over a year ago...


----------



## furyossa (Jan 8, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Probably because during sales, coupons are available so it should still be cheaper than normal.
> 
> But this strategy is quite new I think, I dont remember this being used over a year ago...


You probably didn't pay attention earlier, but it has been around for a while, now there are a lot of browser extensions like AliPrice Price Tracker which help a lot


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> You probably didn't pay attention earlier, but it has been around for a while, now there are a lot of browser extensions like AliPrice Price Tracker which help a lot


Yeah probably. Those price tracker sites/add-ons are great.


----------



## furyossa

TnV26 said:


> By the way, I saw someone mentioned about the AliExpress seller increase the price before the sale period and here what I found.


I mention that. We talk about real price of EBX21 around $209. NiceHCK sale similar cable for $109 so only bugs should be worth $100. The reason I mention the split price is because the original model, before being discontinued, was sold separately from the cable.


----------



## The3DCie

furyossa said:


> Thanx for these photos. Good timing
> Right now I'm working on my DIY coupler for imm-6 mic and your photos are good references. They make it easier to see the driver's orientation towards the ear canal. 30-60% of the sound goes directly into the ear canal, and in most cases where there are side vents, 50% of the vents is blocked by the ear, for example MX500 shells (one side is free and the other is blocked)


You're welcome!  
In fact I listen to all of my buds this way because it enhances sound perception without having to crank up the volume (I'm mostly listening to my music at a whopping 60dB, sometimes 70dB -peak- when I'm going crazy!   ), while it also helps a lot with isolation, even if it's never going to be like a good IEM in that department!
I'm able to listen to my buds in the streets without much problems, and they stay so well in position!

I wasn't aware of blocking vents when using them that way, even if there is, of course, a noticeable increase in bass and warmth.
I was attributing that warmth to the better seal and direct to ear canal flow, that's good to know, thanks!


----------



## The3DCie

So, for those of you who have bought TMusic Beryllium, how do you find them?


Spoiler: TMusic Beryllium wooden shell







I received them about one month ago and I really like how they sound. They have a very good bass, in quantity (I think I've read that it was one of the quality usually associated to beryllium driver?    ) as well as quality. It's a warm pair of buds but they don't sound veiled or dark, even if they are obviously well equipped in the low end of the spectrum!

Perhaps what some of you call a L-shaped FR? I'm really bad at defining what I hear, i'm not a reviewer by any means but I can say that I'm happy I spent $14 on them, they are well worth it!  
They come with a few foams and a hard case, the wooden shell is really good and I quite like the cable, perhaps a bit stiff but of good quality and it even has a cinch slider, which is missing too often on a lot of cables.
And with almost no stem they are very comfortable in my ears, thanks a lot to whoever found them and exposed them here on Head-Fi!


----------



## furyossa

The3DCie said:


> You're welcome!
> In fact I listen to all of my buds this way because it enhances sound perception without having to crank up the volume (I'm mostly listening to my music at a whopping 60dB, sometimes 70dB -peak- when I'm going crazy!   ), while it also helps a lot with isolation, even if it's never going to be like a good IEM in that department!
> I'm able to listen to my buds in the streets without much problems, and they stay so well in position!
> 
> ...


Same here. I wear all my earbuds with metal shell over-ear for the same reason. You are lucky, my ear don't allow orienting buds this way (toward the ear canal).
Again is almost impossible to get 100% direct ear canal flow like with IEM. I saw that you use MX500 type of buds (with long stem) over-ear which is a bit unusual.  
Recently I build "over-ear" mod for Tingo TC200 in standard MX500 shell and this is the prototype


----------



## furyossa (Jan 8, 2021)

The3DCie said:


> So, for those of you who have bought TMusic Beryllium, how do you find them?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: TMusic Beryllium wooden shell
> ...


You mean this model? Beryllium coated drivers are well known for their nicely defined lowend frequencies. Also I noticed that the bass is even better on high impedance models like 130ohm and 600ohm. And yes, the bass has authority, mids are neutral and treble is smooth  but I can't say they have anything to do with L-shape sound signature. You should also consider a wooden shell that gives extra warmth to the sound itself in a good way of course.
Another advantage of wooden shells is that you can very easily take off the driver and change the cables. Rubber stem is nice addition because of elastic connection with the shell which I prefer on this types of shells more then rigid MMCX
For now, enjoy listening to your favorite lists and "don't go crazy" with 70dB+ because sneaky tinnitus waits behind the corner


----------



## baskingshark

The3DCie said:


> So, for those of you who have bought TMusic Beryllium, how do you find them?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: TMusic Beryllium wooden shell
> ...



I thought it was a cheap purported beryllium earbud and ordered it on 11/11 and asked the rest about it on this thread, seems a lot of folks like it. I was really quite excited to receive this set, but a big pity I never got my set. The shop on Aliexpress  (TMusic store) played me out bigtime. Firstly they took like 2 - 3 weeks to ship it out. I messaged them to enquire, they claimed they were making each earbud by hand individually and not to worry. Thereafter they gave me a fake tracking number. It was claimed to be delivered to me in Singapore (but on checking some global tracking services like track17 net I realized that the fake tracking code was sent to somewhere in Siberia (Russia) LOL.

So I messaged them again, they claimed their worker inputted a wrong tracking code (Yes I've seen this usual lame excuse a few times in the past). But giving them the benefit of the doubt, I told them to ship it out with a new tracking number, I won't open a dispute as I would still want this earbud (by now it is 4 weeks from the order date). The shop promised to ship within 24 hours. So lies and more lies, after 3 days from that conversation, it wasn't shipped, Aliexpress was gonna close the deal as they claimed it was delivered a week before. I don't like to open disputes, and I understand that 11/11 can pose logistics challenges for shops, but I did so in this case cause the store is obviously not truthful despite giving them chances. I would rather they be truthful and tell me they can't meet demand or there's gonna be delays, rather than faking tracking numbers or making promises they cannot keep.

Anyways, glad to read your review, I'll see if I can order it again from another shop on Aliexpress at the next sale, but I'm boycotting that TMusic store for sure.


----------



## sutosuto

The3DCie said:


> So, for those of you who have bought TMusic Beryllium


Mine only lasted for around 2 weeks, no sound on the left although I used the units only few times.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

sutosuto said:


> Mine only lasted for around 2 weeks, no sound on the left although I used the units only few times.


That is too bad. Thank you for sharing your unfortunate experience as I was actually considering to purchase a pair.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 9, 2021)

sutosuto said:


> Mine only lasted for around 2 weeks, no sound on the left although I used the units only few times.


This model is also one of the buds which is assembled from DIY parts. The risk is similar when parts are purchased separately, there is a 50/50 chance of getting a bad copy. Sometimes it happens that it is a bad soldering. 
Here's what you can try: unsolder the driver from the cables and test the correctness of the driver with a multimeter.


----------



## furyossa

The3DCie said:


> Ok, coming back to my first post here, I thought it might be the time to show of how I'm wearing almost all of my earbuds, the exception being the JCALLY EP-05, which is too big to be worn as the others in my collection and even sounds better worn "the classic way" as it's too bassy otherwise.
> 
> So here are a couple of photos of the various buds in my ear (sorry, I'm not a top-model!) :
> 
> ...


I hope you don’t mind that I used a couple of your pictures to explain my little experiment


----------



## jogawag (Jan 10, 2021)

The3DCie said:


> Ok, coming back to my first post here, I thought it might be the time to show of how I'm wearing almost all of my earbuds, the exception being the JCALLY EP-05, which is too big to be worn as the others in my collection and even sounds better worn "the classic way" as it's too bassy otherwise.
> 
> So here are a couple of photos of the various buds in my ear (sorry, I'm not a top-model!) :
> 
> ...



I wear my earbuds in a special way too, with the cord hanging downward as usual, and the speaker side facing forward, pressing against the tragus.
This makes the bass emphasized, so if you're interested, try it this way.

Sorry for the dirty ears in the photo.


----------



## PeterMac

Any earphones on market with same drivers from Sennheiser MX985 ?


----------



## The3DCie

furyossa said:


> Same here. I wear all my earbuds with metal shell over-ear for the same reason. You are lucky, my ear don't allow orienting buds this way (toward the ear canal).
> Again is almost impossible to get 100% direct ear canal flow like with IEM. I saw that you use MX500 type of buds (with long stem) over-ear which is a bit unusual.
> Recently I build "over-ear" mod for Tingo TC200 in standard MX500 shell and this is the prototype


Yeah, I accidentally tried that way of wearing buds when I got my first ones and was so disappointed by what I was hearing!   

And, like I said, don't forget to wear a beany when you go outside with a MX500 shell (or, worst, Earpods!) in your ears!!  

I really like short stems for that, they sit flush in the ears and aren't too noticeable, in addition to being a lot more comfortable, your prototype looks good and I hope it sounds as good!


----------



## The3DCie

furyossa said:


> We already commented on this model the other day. About design: It's more something between Datura Pro and Datura X (discontinued model)
> Datura X also have vent on the bottom (3 holes). Datura X steam is long and narrow and on Astraea we have MMCX sockets so there is no additional vent.
> Datura Pro has better vent system as traditional 2 x 3 vent holes (on the side walls of the shell) and stem is additional vent


I liked Datura X for its lively sound (still have it, it's in the next batch of "gifted to charity" buds) and very good isolation (for earbuds, of course), probably due to the metal shell which is quite heavy! (a lot heavier than Datura Pro, for example)
The only thing that I don't like is the cable, which is quite thin but also quite rigid, which is painful when wearing them over the ear as they almost "cut" the back of my ears!  

The Datura Pro is now probably the best sounding audio gear I have, with @Sam L EQ!  
I was quite liking the original tuning, although it was very mid-centric, but with @Sam L  EQ (and with your help it seems) they sound no less than fantastic, a revelation!!  

I see that @Sam L hasn't posted for a few days now, I hope he is well!


----------



## The3DCie

furyossa said:


> You mean this model? Beryllium coated drivers are well known for their nicely defined lowend frequencies. Also I noticed that the bass is even better on high impedance models like 130ohm and 600ohm. And yes, the bass has authority, mids are neutral and treble is smooth  but I can't say they have anything to do with L-shape sound signature. You should also consider a wooden shell that gives extra warmth to the sound itself in a good way of course.
> Another advantage of wooden shells is that you can very easily take off the driver and change the cables. Rubber stem is nice addition because of elastic connection with the shell which I prefer on this types of shells more then rigid MMCX
> For now, enjoy listening to your favorite lists and "don't go crazy" with 70dB+ because sneaky tinnitus waits behind the corner


Yes, it's this one, a really good buy if you ask me!


----------



## The3DCie

baskingshark said:


> I thought it was a cheap purported beryllium earbud and ordered it on 11/11 and asked the rest about it on this thread, seems a lot of folks like it. I was really quite excited to receive this set, but a big pity I never got my set. The shop on Aliexpress  (TMusic store) played me out bigtime. Firstly they took like 2 - 3 weeks to ship it out. I messaged them to enquire, they claimed they were making each earbud by hand individually and not to worry. Thereafter they gave me a fake tracking number. It was claimed to be delivered to me in Singapore (but on checking some global tracking services like track17 net I realized that the fake tracking code was sent to somewhere in Siberia (Russia) LOL.
> 
> So I messaged them again, they claimed their worker inputted a wrong tracking code (Yes I've seen this usual lame excuse a few times in the past). But giving them the benefit of the doubt, I told them to ship it out with a new tracking number, I won't open a dispute as I would still want this earbud (by now it is 4 weeks from the order date). The shop promised to ship within 24 hours. So lies and more lies, after 3 days from that conversation, it wasn't shipped, Aliexpress was gonna close the deal as they claimed it was delivered a week before. I don't like to open disputes, and I understand that 11/11 can pose logistics challenges for shops, but I did so in this case cause the store is obviously not truthful despite giving them chances. I would rather they be truthful and tell me they can't meet demand or there's gonna be delays, rather than faking tracking numbers or making promises they cannot keep.
> 
> Anyways, glad to read your review, I'll see if I can order it again from another shop on Aliexpress at the next sale, but I'm boycotting that TMusic store for sure.


Wow, I guess I have been lucky then , as mine has arrived quite quickly, after a long time to start as well. (I think I remember the seller sent them the last day before AE would cancel the order due to too long time before shipping?  )

And I really like how they sound, beside having no QC problem at all.


----------



## The3DCie

sutosuto said:


> Mine only lasted for around 2 weeks, no sound on the left although I used the units only few times.


Wow, sorry to read this, is there only one of their buds that has no problem? In which case I would be the "lucky boy"?


----------



## The3DCie

WoodyLuvr said:


> That is too bad. Thank you for sharing your unfortunate experience as I was actually considering to purchase a pair.


I don't think I can recommend it now with what seems like a real concern about QC or even reliability of the store, but it's a shame as they are really good!


----------



## The3DCie

furyossa said:


> I hope you don’t mind that I used a couple of your pictures to explain my little experiment


Not at all, you're welcome!  

In fact it's even an honor if my photos can be of any help!  

The only thing I'd say is that the first picture you took for your example is misleading (I'm sure it wasn't your intention, just that I didn't explain better that it was MEMT T5), as the buds shown on that photo are Earpods like, so the sound flow is directed exactly to the ear canal!  
Even if, I agree, it looks weird this way...

Edit: Wow, guys, sorry for the flood of posts, there was a lot to read and answer and I didn't see that I had like 7 posts in a row!...


----------



## furyossa

The3DCie said:


> I liked Datura X for its lively sound (still have it, it's in the next batch of "gifted to charity" buds) and very good isolation (for earbuds, of course), probably due to the metal shell which is quite heavy! (a lot heavier than Datura Pro, for example)
> The only thing that I don't like is the cable, which is quite thin but also quite rigid, which is painful when wearing them over the ear as they almost "cut" the back of my ears!
> 
> The Datura Pro is now probably the best sounding audio gear I have, with @Sam L EQ!
> ...


I skip *DaturaX *because of large shell, but I really like their retro look. The shell is heavy because they do not use aluminum shell as *DaturaPro*, looks like brass, but I'm not sure if it's just a finish or pure brass?
On the other hand, *DaturaPro *is a really improved version of *DaturaX *in every sense, maybe not in tuning but with the help of EQ and this problem is solved although I think there is still room for sound improvement (also design  ) due to the surprising capabilities of the aluminum-coated driver.


----------



## furyossa

The3DCie said:


> I don't think I can recommend it now with what seems like a real concern about QC or even reliability of the store, but it's a shame as they are really good!


Hmm... I will recommend instead to buy all separately (driver, shells and cable). For around $25 you will get a really nice pair of buds
All these parts can be bought in one place
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33047315914.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000808713210.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001613178617.html


----------



## baskingshark

furyossa said:


> Hmm... I will recommend instead to buy all separately (driver, shells and cable). For around $25 you will get a really nice pair of buds
> All these parts can be bought in one place
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33047315914.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000808713210.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001613178617.html



Is it dangerous to work with beryllium materials? Heard they can be toxic when the particles are inhaled!


----------



## furyossa (Jan 10, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Is it dangerous to work with beryllium materials? Heard they can be toxic when the particles are inhaled!


It's protected by the cover, so you not need to worry About beryllium. but this also applies to other metals
I would care more about the "toxicity" of the sound it produces. It's obviously addictive because people are increasingly buying headphone, IEMs and buds with this driver


----------



## Hououin Kyouma

Has anyone here tried this Victor Classic? What is its soudsig? Thanks


----------



## baskingshark

furyossa said:


> It's protected by the cover, so you not need to worry About beryllium. but this also applies to other metals
> I would care more about the "toxicity" of the sound it produces. It's obviously addictive because people are increasingly buying headphone, IEMs and buds with this driver



True, 2020 is indeed the year of the beryllium hypetrain in CHIFI. Though, I have a sneaky suspicion that for some of these budget beryllium sets, the CHIFI companies may be using this material as a marketing gimmick to stand out from the fierce competition at that price range.

The official DUNU folks here on headfi made some interesting comments about the lining/material of drivers for beryllium: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-discovery-thread.586909/page-2968#post-15288735
*"The PVD layer has to be thick enough and the microscopic grain pattern has to be regular enough to confer that pistonic motion beryllium is so famous for. That's why our sub-$100 products (DM-380 and DM-480) are still titanium drivers. Even the TITAN 6, at $139, is only coated on one side."*

DUNU says they have difficulty implementing this Beryllium coating in their sub $100 USD gear. And we already see unit variation in macroscopic areas in budget CHIFI in terms of sound and build, so I'm not confident that some of these fly by night CHIFI budget IEMs/earbuds can ensure good QC for all their units when it comes to microscopic application of beryllium in the proper layering. For all we know they are just sprinkling a few flakes of certain coatings on their drivers instead of uniformly applying it in the prescribed quantities to truly be effective. In fact if one coats it wrongly, it may possibly make the driver sound worse by affecting its physical properties. There was also a BGVP DN2 saga recently where the company purported to use beryllium drivers, but someone opened the shell and proved it was a fake claim (BGVP had to withdraw the product). Though who knows, maybe with economies of scale and the evolution of CHIFI and cheap labour/materials in China, maybe these budget CHIFI companies can still turn a profit with these coatings that are implemented professionally.

That's why I was a bit surprised the TMusic Beryllium earbud can be sold at $11 USD!


----------



## The3DCie

furyossa said:


> Hmm... I will recommend instead to buy all separately (driver, shells and cable). For around $25 you will get a really nice pair of buds
> All these parts can be bought in one place
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33047315914.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000808713210.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001613178617.html


Given my (absence of) abilities to solder or even open and tweak an earphone (be it in buds or IEMs form...) I think I'll consider myself lucky enough to have a functional (and really good!) set with this TMusic Beryllium!   
I also think that the one I have isn't a 130 ohms driver, more like a 32 ohms or something?


----------



## JPardo

How does the Smabat ST-10s gold compare to the Yincrow RW-1000 (bass edition)? I am undecided between the two, I know that in the case of the ST-10s I will need an extra power for its 150ohm

How about the FiiO BTR3K for the Smabat? In theory it is intended for a maximum of 100ohm but I have read other opinions saying that it would work well.


----------



## Blackwolf14

sutosuto said:


> Mine only lasted for around 2 weeks, no sound on the left although I used the units only few times.


@sutosuto and @baskingshark
Thank you for sharing your unfortunate experience. Its very frustrating.

I have TMusic Beryllium too. I paired with DD TC35. Mine's working fine but that doesn't mean it never breaks.


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> True, 2020 is indeed the year of the beryllium hypetrain in CHIFI. Though, I have a sneaky suspicion that for some of these budget beryllium sets, the CHIFI companies may be using this material as a marketing gimmick to stand out from the fierce competition at that price range.
> 
> The official DUNU folks here on headfi made some interesting comments about the lining/material of drivers for beryllium: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-discovery-thread.586909/page-2968#post-15288735
> *"The PVD layer has to be thick enough and the microscopic grain pattern has to be regular enough to confer that pistonic motion beryllium is so famous for. That's why our sub-$100 products (DM-380 and DM-480) are still titanium drivers. Even the TITAN 6, at $139, is only coated on one side."*
> ...


I agree with your statement. All these cheap "Bery" drivers use probably one-side coat. This layer increases the stiffness of the diaphragm and certainly gives better sound characteristics compared to the usual PU diaphragm, of course this also applies to other coatings and not just beryllium. We also have the case with PK1 150ohm "red film" driver where this red filling is actually a kind of elastic gel that increases the mass of the diaphragm and reduces the ripple-like deformations (reducing distortion).That's why PK1 has more refined sound than PK2.
Branded companies certainly have better technology and spend more time for testing and tuning. It's difficult to compare their drivers with mass-produced aka "savage" drivers.
I’m not saying the "savage" drivers are bad, but they definitely lag behind in terms of sound clarity and resolution. These drivers are good for DIY experimentation, they have a noticeable difference when it comes to different coatings (Ti, graphene, beryllium etc) which is good. Also, they are 100% better than any branded consumer model that is sold at the same price.
I honestly don't think it's bad when pre-assembled models of DIY parts are sold like let's say Openheart, FENGRU etc. That way anyone who doesn't want to assemble their own models or has no experience with it, can try these cheaper solutions that really sound good. Of course the risk always exists due to the lack of quality control.
But what is really sad and rude is when someone from well-known branded manufacturers uses these cheap parts and tries to sell them at a great price
For me they all instantly lose respect


----------



## furyossa

JPardo said:


> How about the FiiO BTR3K for the Smabat? In theory it is intended for a maximum of 100ohm but I have read other opinions saying that it would work well.


Maximum of 100ohm applies to headphones. Earbuds have greater sensitivity and require less power than headphones


----------



## The3DCie

furyossa said:


> Maximum of 100ohm applies to headphones. Earbuds have greater sensitivity and require less power than headphones


Agree, FWIW I have no problem driving any of buds or IEMs with the (very) low powered Fiio uBTR!   

And on the driver type (to avoid another flood of posts...), I must admit that, even if I'm looking at this type of informations from a geek PoV, I really don't care what they are made of as long as they sound good!  
But It's easier to say that when you buy almost always cheap stuff, I think I'd be disappointed, to say the least, if I was buying pricier gears supposed to have some exotic material (that would in part explain why they're so expensive), just to discover they are made of standard material...


----------



## usergate (Jan 10, 2021)

Wrong topic. Removed.


----------



## waynes world

JPardo said:


> How about the FiiO BTR3K for the Smabat? In theory it is intended for a maximum of 100ohm but I have read other opinions saying that it would work well.



Seems like it will be fine:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16091034


Spoiler










https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...elix-5k-impression-added.906655/post-16093417


Spoiler


----------



## povidlo

@JPardo Btr3k outputs 25mW in single-ended and 78mW in balanced. St-10s Gold will sound decent but nowhere near its capability. You'd want something with at least 250mw imo due to its high impedance. I think Silver version would pair better with your Btr3k.


----------



## RikudouGoku

povidlo said:


> @JPardo Btr3k outputs 25mW in single-ended and 78mW in balanced. St-10s Gold will sound decent but nowhere near its capability. You'd want something with at least 250mw imo due to its high impedance. I think Silver version would pair better with your Btr3k.


With high resistance, rather than low sensitivity. You want a higher voltage rather than the mw (current). Which is not something portable amps do well since they are powered with batteries.


----------



## povidlo

RikudouGoku said:


> With high resistance, rather than low sensitivity. You want a higher voltage rather than the mw (current). Which is not something portable amps do well since they are powered with batteries.



How come power output ratings are usually listed vs resistance?

e.g.


----------



## RikudouGoku

povidlo said:


> How come power output ratings are usually listed vs resistance?
> 
> e.g.


Dont really know. Could be because impedances are less random in value than with sensitivity.


----------



## The3DCie

jogawag said:


> I wear my earbuds in a special way too, with the cord hanging downward as usual, and the speaker side facing forward, pressing against the tragus.
> This makes the bass emphasized, so if you're interested, try it this way.
> 
> Sorry for the dirty ears in the photo.


I might try that way too, even if I like over the ear wearing, it ensures there is no tension on the cable so the earbuds stay firm in place.   
But perhaps should I try wearing the Smabat M2 Pro that way, as it's a No-Go for me over ear? Anyway I am selling it as it seems Smabat earbuds are not for me, despite their great sound quality!  

Speaking of Smabat, am I the only one to find that M1 Pro sounds better overall than M2 Pro?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 10, 2021)

povidlo said:


> @JPardo Btr3k outputs 25mW in single-ended and 78mW in balanced. St-10s Gold will sound decent but nowhere near its capability. You'd want something with at least 250mw imo due to its high impedance. I think Silver version would pair better with your Btr3k.


Holy cow I hope so! 250 mW would bring Smabat Black-Golds to 139 dB SPL and well over 120 dB SPL if their sensitivity is lower than the listed 115 dB/mW as some of us believe they may have a sensitivity as low as 96 dB/mW.


----------



## JPardo

furyossa said:


> Maximum of 100ohm applies to headphones. Earbuds have greater sensitivity and require less power than headphones



Thank you, I will have that data for reference.



waynes world said:


> Seems like it will be fine:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16091034
> 
> ...



Thanks! I saw those two comments while researching the Smabat ST-10s and the FiiO BTR3K. I even think I saw a @ClieOS post where I had them connected to the FiiO.



povidlo said:


> @JPardo Btr3k outputs 25mW in single-ended and 78mW in balanced. St-10s Gold will sound decent but nowhere near its capability. You'd want something with at least 250mw imo due to its high impedance. I think Silver version would pair better with your Btr3k.





RikudouGoku said:


> With high resistance, rather than low sensitivity. You want a higher voltage rather than the mw (current). Which is not something portable amps do well since they are powered with batteries.



This is one of the aspects that worries me, although it would almost always be used as a dac connected to a pc, the bluetooth function being a more secondary aspect. Another option would be to consider another compact size dac that is portable. Right now I have the BTR3K in my shopping cart for € 58, any similar priced option with more power?


----------



## RikudouGoku

JPardo said:


> Thank you, I will have that data for reference.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can take a look here for more bluetooth options: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...-8-jul-20-qudelix-5k-impression-added.906655/

(FIY: it is the amp you should be looking at, not the dac. As that doesnt make any differences as far as the ones I have tried.)


----------



## The3DCie

JPardo said:


> This is one of the aspects that worries me, although it would almost always be used as a dac connected to a pc, the bluetooth function being a more secondary aspect. Another option would be to consider another compact size dac that is portable. Right now I have the BTR3K in my shopping cart for € 58, any similar priced option with more power?


I know it doesn't have a balanced output but the Shanling UP2 is about the same price as Fiio BTR3K and its single ended output power is the same as the balanced output power of Fiio BTR3K so that could be an option as well.   

I think they have more or less the same functionalities on BT or USB DAC front...


----------



## povidlo

WoodyLuvr said:


> Holy cow I hope so! 250 mW would bring Smabat Black-Golds to 139 dB SPL and well over 120 dB SPL if their sensitivity is lower than the listed 115 dB/mW as some of us believe they may have a sensitivity as low as 96 dB/mW.


Sorry, I was attempting to say: use at least "250 mW-rated devices"- as in something that has a max power output of at least 250 mW. 

Nobody should try to push 250 mW into anything......🤯🤯🤯


----------



## The3DCie

furyossa said:


> For now, enjoy listening to your favorite lists and "don't go crazy" with 70dB+ because sneaky tinnitus waits behind the corner


Ha ha, no worries here, my ears don't like anything loud, even good music!   
When I'm going to a concert (well, when there actually are concerts, which are hard to find right now!...  ) I always wear ear protections to avoid tinnitus when going back home.


----------



## furyossa

povidlo said:


> Nobody should try to push 250 mW into anything......🤯🤯🤯


Planar's and DJ headphones are power hungry and some old-school models


----------



## furyossa (Jan 10, 2021)

The3DCie said:


> Ha ha, no worries here, my ears don't like anything loud, even good music!
> When I'm going to a concert (well, when there actually are concerts, which are hard to find right now!...  ) I always wear ear protections to avoid tinnitus when going back home.


Busy street + earbuds it’s pretty much like you’re at a concert. Same thing for open-back headphones.
External noise and the music mix with each other and all this energy negatively affects hearing
IEM's are for outside,if you really have to listen to music, their main purpose is to block the external noise at least  -15dB to -30dB (passive noise isolation)
ANC headphones are another solution but most of these not sound good when ANC is ON.


----------



## The3DCie

furyossa said:


> Busy street + earbuds it’s pretty much like you’re at a concert. Same thing for open-back headphones.
> External noise and the music mix with each other and all this energy negatively affects hearing
> IEM's are for outside,if you really have to listen to music, their main purpose is to block the external noise at least  -15dB to -30dB (passive noise isolation)
> ANC headphones are another solution but most of these not sound good when ANC is ON.


Nah, it's just the force of habit: I'm hearing what I can hear of my music (which I know so well my brain reconstruct the sections I can't really hear!  ) and enjoy fully at other moments when external noise isn't as pronounced. 

Anyway, no matter what, my iPhone or iPod never go above 40/50 % of volume, and the buds act as some sort of ear protections instead, even if (a lot) less effective than any IEM!
But I'll trade sounds from the street with that "stethoscope" effect I don't like when walking with IEMs in my ears 100% of the time!


----------



## furyossa

The3DCie said:


> Nah, it's just the force of habit: I'm hearing what I can hear of my music (which I know so well my brain reconstruct the sections I can't really hear!  ) and enjoy fully at other moments when external noise isn't as pronounced.
> 
> Anyway, no matter what, my iPhone or iPod never go above 40/50 % of volume, and the buds act as some sort of ear protections instead, even if (a lot) less effective than any IEM!
> But I'll trade sounds from the street with that "stethoscope" effect I don't like when walking with IEMs in my ears 100% of the time!


You are 100% right. That's why I mentioned: "_if you really have to listen music outside_". 
The "stethoscope" effect is the reason why I much prefer earbuds over big IEM's. 
I like small IEM's where the mentioned effect is less pronounced. Still my favorite pair that I don't even consider IEM is Superlux HD381. 
There are a lot of old models that look quite similar and use a 13.5mm driver (Sony, Philips etc) but are hard to find since they have been discontinued.  
Nozzle + open front cover design is rarely used nowadays because there is no sound insulation but the sound effect (in this case the soundstage) is what really fascinates me


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> You are 100% right. That's why I mentioned: "_if you really have to listen music outside_".
> The "stethoscope" effect is the reason why I much prefer earbuds over big IEM's.
> I like small IEM's where the mentioned effect is less pronounced. Still my favorite pair that I don't even consider IEM is Superlux HD381.
> There are a lot of old models that look quite similar and use a 13.5mm driver (Sony, Philips etc) but are hard to find since they have been discontinued.
> Nozzle + open front cover design is rarely used nowadays because there is no sound insulation but the sound effect (in this case the soundstage) is what really fascinates me


The Fiio FD5 should be interesting to you then. Semi-open (doesnt affect sound, only to remove pressure) and a huge and airy soundstage.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> The Fiio FD5 should be interesting to you then. Semi-open (doesnt affect sound, only to remove pressure) and a huge and airy soundstage.


I know about FD5, but they are a little above my budget  BTW... I really like the design and the technology they used in this model, and it doesn't seem gimmicky to me.
Also, this is not a design that I mentioned in the previous post. FD5 has semi-open-back design. By "*open-front cover*" I mean this one. The open surface on the front side may be larger than the  cover of ordinary earbuds.


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> I know about FD5, but they are a little above my budget  BTW... I really like the design and the technology they used in this model, and it doesn't seem gimmicky to me.
> Also, this is not a design that I mentioned in the previous post. FD5 has semi-open-back design. By "*open-front cover*" I mean this one. The open surface on the front side may be larger than the  cover of ordinary earbuds.


Havent seen that type of vents on iems before lol. 

Not sure if I call the FD5 vents a gimmick or not. Because they dont really affect the sound much and is more for pressure allevation.


----------



## llysender

Not sure if this is the right place to ask but are there any earbuds with thinish/neutural bass with high slam and vocal focused?


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Not sure if I call the FD5 vents a gimmick or not. Because they dont really affect the sound much and is more for pressure allevation.


Exactly these back vents are for pressure relief. How do you rank FD5 and compare with KBEAR Believe?


RikudouGoku said:


> Havent seen that type of vents on iems before lol.


You can find many similar earphones that have this design, but they have 1-3 small holes at the front for pressure relief.
On Superlux and other models which I showed a moment ago, the openings at the front let sound through. 
Some see this as a negative trait (sound leakage) and probably because of that this design is less used. 
But because sound leak from the front and goes towards the ear canal, if an ear tip is used that does not seal the ear 100% then an additional sound is heard
which is very interesting.


----------



## Sam L (Jan 10, 2021)

The3DCie said:


> I liked Datura X for its lively sound (still have it, it's in the next batch of "gifted to charity" buds) and very good isolation (for earbuds, of course), probably due to the metal shell which is quite heavy! (a lot heavier than Datura Pro, for example)
> The only thing that I don't like is the cable, which is quite thin but also quite rigid, which is painful when wearing them over the ear as they almost "cut" the back of my ears!
> 
> The Datura Pro is now probably the best sounding audio gear I have, with @Sam L EQ!
> ...


Thx for the concern! I'm alive and well, just been super busy looking for a job, while hustling on the side to make ends meet.

Glad you got to experience the Datura Pro compensated and thanks to @furyossa for constantly highlighting the virtues of the driver in it. After the FR is adjusted, the Datura Pro is such a phenomenal value. I don't have very many high end earbuds to compare to but I'd take the compensated Datura Pro over my smabat s10s (blk/silver) or my rambo II, no contest.


----------



## baskingshark

llysender said:


> Not sure if this is the right place to ask but are there any earbuds with thinish/neutural bass with high slam and vocal focused?



- FAAEAL Datura Pro (non EQ version).
- Ry4S 300 ohm (needs amping as per the high impedance).
- perhaps BK2.


----------



## DBaldock9

furyossa said:


> Planar's and DJ headphones are power hungry and some old-school models



I've got some 20 year old Beyerdynamic DT-831 Headphones (250-Ω, 96dB/mW), that require a fair amount of power, to play with a sound of "authority".


----------



## furyossa (Jan 11, 2021)

DBaldock9 said:


> I've got some 20 year old Beyerdynamic DT-831 Headphones (250-Ω, 96dB/mW), that require a fair amount of power, to play with a sound of "authority".


Wow! They look really cool. I like "stained-glass cross-shaped" cuts on the cups, Semi-open back?
I think the designers were inspired by the windmill   









I will post this also


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 11, 2021)

DBaldock9 said:


> I've got some 20 year old Beyerdynamic DT-831 Headphones (250-Ω, 96dB/mW), that require a fair amount of power, to play with a sound of "authority".


I see why... 25 mW @ *2.5V* to reach 110 dB SPL and 251 mW @ *~8Volts!!!* to reach 120 dB SPL. All about the voltage requirement with these cans   !


----------



## furyossa (Jan 11, 2021)

I came across this model, and I am thinking of pulling the trigger





This was written by the owner: _I am selling new or as new legendary Sennheiser headphones, bought back in 1978. Complete with box, invoice and catalog but without foams._

They are older than me  Funny question: Has anyone tried this model?
*Sennheiser HD 414 X specs *This *"X" *probably stands for extreme impedance 

Frequency Response: 20Hz - 20kHz.
Impedance: *2000 *ohm
Nominal SPL (DIN 45 580): *94* dB.
Weight without cable: 125 g.
Cable length: 3 m.
I hope they are still under warranty


----------



## baskingshark

furyossa said:


> I came across this model, and I am thinking of pulling the trigger
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LOL is the 2000 ohm a typo??!

Anyways this can probably be in a museum! But retro gear can easily be sold on to collectors at a higher price next time!


----------



## DBaldock9

furyossa said:


> Wow! They look really cool. I like "stained-glass cross-shaped" cuts on the cups, Semi-open back?
> I think the designers were inspired by the windmill
> 
> 
> ...



They're sealed back headphones, with good isolation.
.
We have drifted a far bit OT here...


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> LOL is the 2000 ohm a typo??!
> 
> Anyways this can probably be in a museum! But retro gear can easily be sold on to collectors at a higher price next time!


2K ohm / 94dB this is not extreme but INSANE. You're right. This is just to buy and frame it as a picture.
I wonder what kind of device they used at the time to run this "hungry guy". Nuclear reactor?


----------



## DBaldock9

furyossa said:


> 2K ohm / 94dB this is not extreme but INSANE. You're right. This is just to buy and frame it as a picture.
> I wonder what kind of device they used at the time to run this "hungry guy". Nuclear reactor?



Back in the '70s, most of the headphone jacks on receivers and integrated amps, were driven by the main amplifier channels (through a resistor voltage divider) - which could have power rails that ranged anywhere from ±25VDC to ±60VDC, or more.  So, if the resistor padding for the headphone jack was too much, just hook those headphones directly to the speaker jacks.


----------



## baskingshark

Anybody knows anything about this Xiaofan T2 earbud?

It is going at $99 USD usually for some Aliexpress shops, but for the upcoming sale, it seems some shops are selling it at $69 USD prior to coupons.











The shops are calling it an IEM, but it looks like a earbud TBH.
Anyway, Xiaofan is the company that sells crazily expensive cables, which according to their store page, is meant for only the king of gods:


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 11, 2021)

furyossa said:


> I came across this model, and I am thinking of pulling the trigger
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If decently priced I say go for it... nice to have a piece of history! There are a variety of replacement foams that you can use with them. I do miss my HD414s (600Ω; c 1974/75) that an older cousin had passed on to me ~1977. They were the world's first on-ear open-back headphone that originally debuted in 1968 with the model-line produced until the early 80s if I am not mistaken. Sennheiser originally called them "Open Aire" headphones. I think the HD414X variant debut 1977/1978. Though do be very prepared to have to drive those via a powerful headAMP as that 2000-ohm impedance coupled with a low sensitivity of 94 dB/mW will indeed be a challenge to drive with any authority from a mobile device... Nearly 9 volts is required to reach 110 dB SPL... 15 volts to reach 115 dB SPL!  With that said, if you listen to your music at around 65 dB SPL, taking into account a generous 35 dB in headroom for the most dynamic recordings, you will only need 2.8V (4mW) which is still a challenge for most mobile sources/devices.


----------



## furyossa

DBaldock9 said:


> Back in the '70s, most of the headphone jacks on receivers and integrated amps, were driven by the main amplifier channels (through a resistor voltage divider) - which could have power rails that ranged anywhere from ±25VDC to ±60VDC, or more.  So, if the resistor padding for the headphone jack was too much, just hook those headphones directly to the speaker jacks.


Thanks for info. I didn't know that.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 11, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Anybody knows anything about this Xiaofan T2 earbud?
> 
> It is going at $99 USD usually for some Aliexpress shops, but for the upcoming sale, it seems some shops are selling it at $69 USD prior to coupons.
> 
> ...


I mentioned Ortiz cable here. But you found another gem. So we have a new winner for the best combo:
xiaofan OKU & TRN VX Gold 🥇


----------



## The3DCie

baskingshark said:


> Anybody knows anything about this Xiaofan T2 earbud?
> 
> It is going at $99 USD usually for some Aliexpress shops, but for the upcoming sale, it seems some shops are selling it at $69 USD prior to coupons.
> 
> ...


They look really cool, but I wouldn't pull the trigger on so expensive earbuds without being "sure" of what I get in return.
Especially coming from a company with such ridiculously priced cables!!


----------



## TnV26

Well, I don't know any other earbuds than ST-10s to looking for during AliExpress winter sale.

So, just for the heads up. You can get the ST-10s on NiceHCK store as low as
Gold  -> 62.56$
Silver -> 45.66$

Collect the Store coupon and applied the store code during check out. That 25$ cheaper for the Gold that I ordered few days ago.


----------



## The3DCie

TnV26 said:


> Well, I don't know any other earbuds than ST-10s to looking for during AliExpress winter sale.
> 
> So, just for the heads up. You can get the ST-10s on NiceHCK store as low as
> Gold  -> 62.56$
> ...


What is this promo code you have there?


----------



## JPardo

RikudouGoku said:


> You can take a look here for more bluetooth options: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...-8-jul-20-qudelix-5k-impression-added.906655/
> 
> (FIY: it is the amp you should be looking at, not the dac. As that doesnt make any differences as far as the ones I have tried.)



Thanks for the recommendation, I was taking a look. About the term DAC, you are right, it was a mistake when expressing myself




The3DCie said:


> I know it doesn't have a balanced output but the Shanling UP2 is about the same price as Fiio BTR3K and its single ended output power is the same as the balanced output power of Fiio BTR3K so that could be an option as well.
> 
> I think they have more or less the same functionalities on BT or USB DAC front...



Thank you for your comment.  I've been looking at it and also the top version, the UP4, competing with the FiiO BTR5 in terms of specs.

For now, what I have bought with the AliExpress sales by collecting several coupons has been the Smbat ST-10s Gold for 50€, crazy at that price.


----------



## TnV26

The3DCie said:


> What is this promo code you have there?



I see sometime the code disappeared from the store coupon screen.

Here the code: 6YEC1K2SM9Q6

10$ discount when order over 50$


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Exactly these back vents are for pressure relief. How do you rank FD5 and compare with KBEAR Believe?


Havent tried the BElieve. But the FD5 is currently my best iem in terms of sq. (although personal taste leans towards something like the Sony XBA-N3 more, huge bass but relaxed treble.)


----------



## The3DCie

TnV26 said:


> I see sometime the code disappeared from the store coupon screen.
> 
> Here the code: 6YEC1K2SM9Q6
> 
> 10$ discount when order over 50$


Thanks, unfortunately it didn't work for me, but I finally found another one that gave me a great... $4 of discount!


----------



## TnV26

When I think "just one earbuds" is enough. The another one and upgrade cable is on the way.

This hobby is scary


----------



## waynes world (Jan 11, 2021)

TnV26 said:


> When I think "just one earbuds" is enough. The another one and upgrade cable is on the way.
> 
> This hobby is scary



Ha ha yes, scary indeed! Do you know much about that cable?


----------



## furyossa (Jan 12, 2021)

waynes world said:


> Ha ha yes, scary indeed! Do you know much about that cable?


This is the info for *Litz wires*. NiceHCK cable have ok price for pure silver cable. *4N* (99.99%) refers to the purity of copper, but I don't know is it the same for the silver, maybe this cable is just silver plated. Down below in the list, you will find some 7N (99.99999%) cables

These are some cheap Litz cables:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000377697908.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001586436450.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001967414576.html (latest TRN cable)

For pure silver cables, *KBEAR-limpid* still has the cheapest offer and here are some more budget variants:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001244561669.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000516021888.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001963475162.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33001600894.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32918690187.html


----------



## Alex.Grimm

furyossa said:


> For pure silver cables, *KBEAR-limpid* still has the cheapest offer and here are some more budget variants:


Lol, fake pure silver for this price


----------



## furyossa

Alex.Grimm said:


> Lol, fake pure silver for this price


It's 4 core who knows. TRN is 8 core, and it's a little more expensive.
The question is how much of this is pure silver but for this price is good for earbuds


----------



## RikudouGoku

Alex.Grimm said:


> Lol, fake pure silver for this price


It is legit




https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001244034183.html

They also have an 8-core version of that cable.



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001722934298.html


----------



## goodwinds

hello to fans of earbuds!
Advise the best sound quality model, with mmcx? Of course, according to your taste, but based on personal listening experience.


----------



## Miyanovic

I don't know if this was done by someone before, but Have you tried doing this mod on the VIDO? You add cotton and micropore tape to the holes on one side, as seen in the photo. Then you just put the stock foams. It's amazing how it improves the sound. Improves treble by increasing between 2khz and 4 khz.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 11, 2021)

Miyanovic said:


> I don't know if this was done by someone before, but Have you tried doing this mod on the VIDO? You add cotton and micropore tape to the holes on one side, as seen in the photo. Then you just put the stock foams. It's amazing how it improves the sound. Improves treble by increasing between 2khz and 4 khz.


Stock version of* ShoonTH ESEP-01BL* uses a similar trick. Depending on the position of the earbud in the ear, the *tragus *partially closes one side of the vents.




ShoonTH used hot glue to completely close this side of the vents and other side which is not covered by the ear is free. You taped that side so you basically have mutually closed vents.
Also, should be taken into account horseshoe black foam which covers the vents on the inside.
This way you got more intimate sound like closed-back headphones.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 11, 2021)

Miyanovic said:


> I don't know if this was done by someone before, but Have you tried doing this mod on the VIDO? You add cotton and micropore tape to the holes on one side, as seen in the photo. Then you just put the stock foams. It's amazing how it improves the sound. Improves treble by increasing between 2khz and 4 khz.


You can try this also: Add tape on the other side (seal both side). Use a needle to drill a hole to start. Test and see if more holes are needed, or you can just increase the diameter of one hole.
Do this on the side which is not covered by ear


----------



## The3DCie

Hey, look at what did arrive last Saturday!   


Spoiler: Faaeal Iris CE transparent gray









Spoiler: MEMT R7











Spoiler: S**f*r PT25







Ordered the 3 the same day 12 days ago and they arrived the same day as well, which is a first in my case.
And that's not the best thing since you have to chose which one you will listen to...  

Anyway, let's start with the (really) bad news, my MEMT R7 was probably borked from the beginning, or the tuner of this earbuds almost forgot there can be some sound coming out of music instruments under 200Hz, because there was NO BASS at all!!  
And I'm not a basshead by any mean but here it was so bad that it was totally un-listenable.
Ok, the fit was bad, a bit like what I'm getting with Smabat earbuds, they don't want to stay in my ears and you lose a big part of the sound, but I never experienced something like this before, weird...  

But I'm a lucky guy and I discovered that they were some of the (very) few items you can send back to AE free of charge! (they get back to a facility in your country, in my case France, and they get them back to China I guess...)
So they already are on their way to home, it was quick!
That's still disappointing though, as they are gorgeous and perfectly built, I would have loved them even if they had sounded average!...

On to Faaeal Iris CE transparent gray, which is really different from the transparent version.
They have similarities of course, but they are easily distinguishable from each other and I must say I prefer this transparent gray version to the transparent one.
The transparent gray have less mid-bass and as such sounds a lot less boomy, while digging deeper in sub-bass. Transparent gray is more balanced to my ears, even if those two earbuds are on the warm side. (take into account my way of wearing buds, though, ymmv)
Details and high-end of the spectrum seem to be more or less the same, so, overall, I think the transparent gray is the best sounding of the two, to my ears at least.  

Ok, now on to the PT25, which is an "Earpod like" pair of buds. To me they are extremely good, clarity, bass, mids, trebles, they are all there, in place, everything is flowing like it should and I just get lost in me music, which is the best compliment I can give to an audio gear!  
They are very comfortable as well (I must say I dig Earpod like format, so keep that in mind) and, even though the cable is sonically ok, they deserve a better cable so I just bought a new KBEAR Limpid MMCX just for them, it says a lot coming from me!  

That's it for now, coming back later with some more impressions!


----------



## Nool (Jan 11, 2021)

goodwinds said:


> hello to fans of earbuds!
> Advise the best sound quality model, with mmcx? Of course, according to your taste, but based on personal listening experience.


I would say Y--Y-- BK2, neutral tuning. No bass warmth, but good resolution & timbre. $22USD, included mmcx cable is worth at least $10 as well, so any buyers remorse would be minimal.

Edit: Misread the question, it seems price isn't a factor.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 11, 2021)

The3DCie said:


> Hey, look at what did arrive last Saturday!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Faaeal Iris CE transparent gray
> ...


Nice man. Congrats!
Let them to break-in a few days now when you know which pair will stay with you. You are really lucky guy, you know. 

As for the Faaeal buds I don't have experience with other MX500 models. I mostly avoid buying MX500 models, except in rare cases, because of the fit which is not so good for me unfortunately. I'm a fan of metal shells and when DaturaPro appeared I couldn't resist. At first I was very disappointed with the stock tuning, I gave them a chance, but it was not worth it. They ended up in a box right after 2 days of listening. After a year I saw that @Sam L performed some "voodoo" magic on some famous earbuds, so I asked him to try to "enchant" several models which I own in my collection, among which was DaturaPro  
Other models had 60-80% improvement with PEQ but DaturaPro 99.99999999999%. Voodoo baby!  The real "Cinderella transformation".
Now this is really a complete package: build quality, looks, SQ, comfort.

About S.e.n.f.e.r. IMO  one of the most innovative companies with the best product price. Period.
They started by copying famous IEM models and maybe 2-3 years ago they started with their own design. *D.T.8* is the first IEM with original design, *D.T.6* is 2nd and *PT25* is 3rd. All 3 looks beautiful, build quality is also nice. They are not engaged in the production of quality cables but still try to put at least something that can be used temporarily
with the intention of not raising the price of the product. All in all I am currently very interested in the new *PT2021* model but shipping for my country is the main problem which has been going on since March 2020   





Anyway, I'm glad you're happy with the new models, it's important that they are all work well. Enjoy


----------



## cappuchino

Don't know if it's right to post this her3, but I need help. Is this still repairable??? I'm also not sure if I burnt anything (there's a black spot) during my recable attempt.

Thanks!


----------



## furyossa

sub30 said:


> Don't know if it's right to post this her3, but I need help. Is this still repairable??? I'm also not sure if I burnt anything (there's a black spot) during my recable attempt.
> 
> Thanks!


Post on  DIY Earbuds thread


----------



## cappuchino

Th


furyossa said:


> Post on  DIY Earbuds thread


Thanks!


----------



## baskingshark

Any owners of the K's Nameless here?

I haven't had much time to spend with it since getting it, but I realize is sounds super muffled in the bass when full foams or donut foams are used. Have to use it totally without any covers then the clarity in the bass comes back. I suspect the foams is covering a vent or something. Without foam covers it is quite a well balanced U shaped set, kind of reminds me of the RY4S 300 ohm in tuning, just that it is much easier to drive and is a slightly less refined version of it.


----------



## cappuchino

baskingshark said:


> Any owners of the K's Nameless here?
> 
> I haven't had much time to spend with it since getting it, but I realize is sounds super muffled in the bass when full foams or donut foams are used. Have to use it totally without any covers then the clarity in the bass comes back. I suspect the foams is covering a vent or something. Without foam covers it is quite a well balanced U shaped set, kind of reminds me of the RY4S 300 ohm in tuning, just that it is much easier to drive and is a slightly less refined version of it.


I have them. Bought it for $2. For me, they're better than my Red Vidos. I, however, use them with @Sam L compensation.


----------



## baskingshark

sub30 said:


> I have them. Bought it for $2. For me, they're better than my Red Vidos. I, however, use them with @Sam L compensation.



Do u find them over muddy with full foam covers?


----------



## cappuchino

baskingshark said:


> Do u find them over muddy with full foam covers?


Without eq? Definitely warm. But with his file and full foam, it's a great listening experience. The soundstage is just insane for the price.


----------



## baskingshark

sub30 said:


> Without eq? Definitely warm. But with his file and full foam, it's a great listening experience. The soundstage is just insane for the price.



It is quite a nice set for the price for sure.


----------



## TnV26

waynes world said:


> Ha ha yes, scary indeed! Do you know much about that cable?



I found the reviews on this site Here and also the 4 cores version Here. 

So, I decided to go with 8 cores version as it seem an upgraded in SQ compared to 4 core with more durability, the 4 core look a bit too thin for my liking.


----------



## Sam L

baskingshark said:


> Do u find them over muddy with full foam covers?


yes, my k's nameless bass is sloppy and all over the place... The bass bloat peaks at around 125hz, but the bloat persists up til around 400hz. Those are the problem areas I addressed with the peq and wavelet files. There's also some sonically damaging recession around 3200hz.


----------



## Sam L

furyossa said:


> Nice man. Congrats!
> Let them to break-in a few days now when you know which pair will stay with you. You are really lucky guy, you know.
> 
> As for the Faaeal buds I don't have experience with other MX500 models. I mostly avoid buying MX500 models, except in rare cases, because of the fit which is not so good for me unfortunately. I'm a fan of metal shells and when DaturaPro appeared I couldn't resist. At first I was very disappointed with the stock tuning, I gave them a chance, but it was not worth it. They ended up in a box right after 2 days of listening. After a year I saw that @Sam L performed some "voodoo" magic on some famous earbuds, so I asked him to try to "enchant" several models which I own in my collection, among which was DaturaPro
> ...


@furyossa, I'm going to be continually thanking you for your persistence in encouraging me to eq the Datura Pro with @cenizas measurements since I didn't order a pair yet. The build quality is unrivaled at $24 -- shells are light yet extremely durable, there's a nice chin slider and the cable is excellent. 

The top two transformative earbuds I've worked on w/ eq is the Datura Pro and the Fiio EM5 (though the EM5 sounds great without correction as well). The EM5 transforms into two different sound profiles with my v1.5 target, both great. The Datura Pro transforms from trash to greatness. Well, I might be a bit harsh in describing the Datura Pro's stock tuning as trash, but the difference is so striking that there is no way anyone would prefer the stock over v1.5 target. Again, $24! Got to love earbuds!


----------



## Sam L

sub30 said:


> I have them. Bought it for $2. For me, they're better than my Red Vidos. I, however, use them with @Sam L compensation.


I can't believe they're available locally for $2. That's absolutely crazy.


----------



## The3DCie

llysender said:


> Not sure if this is the right place to ask but are there any earbuds with thinish/neutural bass with high slam and vocal focused?


Don't think I can recommend it, but if you want bass light earbuds MEMT R7 is for you, as they have almost NO bass at all!  

Just kidding of course, I can't recommend MEMT R7 at all, at least from the one I've had, which was probably defective to start with.
I think a good neutral and bass light pair of buds would be Y**y** BK2, which, while I didn't particularly liked them, have good technicalities and are quite cheap but well built.


----------



## The3DCie

Sam L said:


> Thx for the concern! I'm alive and well, just been super busy looking for a job, while hustling on the side to make ends meet.
> 
> Glad you got to experience the Datura Pro compensated and thanks to @furyossa for constantly highlighting the virtues of the driver in it. After the FR is adjusted, the Datura Pro is such a phenomenal value. I don't have very many high end earbuds to compare to but I'd take the compensated Datura Pro over my smabat s10s (blk/silver) or my rambo II, no contest.


I can't agree more that Datura Pro when EQ'd is fantastic sounding!  

Don't use your compensation file as I don't think I can use it on my iPhone (?), or at least I don't know how to use it, but I took your FR compensation picture (quite extreme if you ask me, but does wonderfully transform the Datura Pro!) and try to mimic it as much as I could on Onkyo HF player and Neutron player, and the magic happened!  

Perhaps there is even more than the FR compensation when using your files?
Anyway it's already a gem as is, thanks again for this to you and @furyossa !


----------



## furyossa

The3DCie said:


> I can't agree more that Datura Pro when EQ'd is fantastic sounding!
> 
> Don't use your compensation file as I don't think I can use it on my iPhone (?), or at least I don't know how to use it, but I took your FR compensation picture (quite extreme if you ask me, but does wonderfully transform the Datura Pro!) and try to mimic it as much as I could on Onkyo HF player and Neutron player, and the magic happened!
> 
> ...


What about sources other than the iPhone? Laptop, PC?


----------



## goodwinds

my current set of earbud: smabat m2pro + 150ohms black gold driver module with fw1500 stock cable.


Spoiler


----------



## The3DCie

furyossa said:


> What about sources other than the iPhone? Laptop, PC?


I have bought recently a Hiby R2 which sounds great but I'm selling it as I'm too used to Apple UI and really don't like the way it operates.
And I just saw, after getting it mostly to try MSEB that there was an app on the AppStore (from Hiby) that does just that!...   

But really, my main source isn't even my iPhone, it's my little tiny iPod Shuffle 2GB, which drives even headphones surprisingly well!!  
And it's so small that you forget you have that in your pocket, my hidden gem!


----------



## The3DCie

goodwinds said:


> my current set of earbud: smabat m2pro + 150ohms black gold driver module with fw1500 stock cable.
> 
> 
> Spoiler


How do you like them?
They fit me badly and are uncomfortable to a point I even don't understand why!...  

And I tried the 2 tuning filters without hearing a big difference to be honest.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 12, 2021)

Does anyone else use the foobar2K effect plugin with their earbuds called RBE Bass Exciter ( *foo_dsp_bassexciter* )? Just curious what settings others may be using. Having more luck with this than using an equalizer with most of my earbuds. The following is what I am currently using:

Threshold Frequency    1200Hz
Harmonic Frequency      60Hz
Harmonic Bandwidth      80Hz
Harmonic Energy          *26-30dB*
Above Pre-Wave Decay  -92dB
Below Pre-Wave Decay  -10dB


----------



## Sam L

time to give the r4ys 300 ohm some eq love!

Here's the graph of the stock tuning:




grab the peq, geq and wavelet files here


----------



## Sam L (Jan 12, 2021)

The3DCie said:


> I can't agree more that Datura Pro when EQ'd is fantastic sounding!
> 
> Don't use your compensation file as I don't think I can use it on my iPhone (?), or at least I don't know how to use it, but I took your FR compensation picture (quite extreme if you ask me, but does wonderfully transform the Datura Pro!) and try to mimic it as much as I could on Onkyo HF player and Neutron player, and the magic happened!


no need to eyeball things from the picture, the datura pro post has a fixedbandeq txt file that is for a 10 band GEQ. You can enter in those values in any eq, just ignore the q values.


The3DCie said:


> Perhaps there is even more than the FR compensation when using your files?


For some reason the wavelet files produce better outcomes consistently. I'm not sure why.


----------



## The3DCie

Thanks I'm eyeballing the graph from this post: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16015064

I thought it would be more precise than a 10 band EQ since we have free curve EQ on Onkyo HF Player & Neutron Player apps on iPhone.    
I'll try with the 10 band EQ to see if it makes a difference, thanks!  

What I can tell for sure is that this "eyeballed" EQ DOES make a HUGE difference on Datura Pro!!
On that I can only agree 1000% on what you said earlier today, even though I don't have EM5 to hear if the difference in sound is as pronounced. But Faaeal Datura Pro with your settings is sounding exceptional, no other word I can find to define it, without a doubt the best in my collection!  
And they look gorgeous too and are well built, what can I ask more for only $20?


----------



## Sam L

The3DCie said:


> Thanks I'm eyeballing the graph from this post: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16015064
> 
> I thought it would be more precise than a 10 band EQ since we have free curve EQ on Onkyo HF Player & Neutron Player apps on iPhone.
> I'll try with the 10 band EQ to see if it makes a difference, thanks!
> ...


ah, didn't know about the free curve implementations on those apps. You'll likely not hear a difference then unless the scale is really different. lol we might need to back off the hype before people think we're being overly dramatic. But I'll say it one more time: The cinderella change with the datura pro is so dramatic that anyone new to the thread (coming over from iems) asking for what to buy in the $100 to $150 range should just get the datura pro instead. Unless of course they are really against eq, then I can only say they are missing out on the best $26 I've spent in audio ever.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 12, 2021)

The3DCie said:


> And they look gorgeous too and are well built, what can I ask more for only $20?


What can you ask ... well if we're not taking $20 into account ... maybe *DaturaPro'21* ("2021" has already become a trend in the name of every new model) with new features:
- modular cable with switchable plugs (2.5mm, 3.5mm, 4.4mm, USB-C)
- better shell finish (the existing shell is too slippery and does not hold foam well. Cerakote coating is one of the options)
- MMCX version (this is optional, the stock cable is good and MMCX will only add unnecessary weight. Also, Hibiscus cable can be a good choice.)
- higher driver impedance (32ohm - 150ohm)
- and of course new stock tuning by @Sam L 

Nowadays we often see modular models with different accessories. So it would be nice to be able to add a chip that would store the EQ settings as we see with some BT models.


----------



## goodwinds (Jan 12, 2021)

The3DCie said:


> How do you like them?
> They fit me badly and are uncomfortable to a point I even don't understand why!...
> 
> And I tried the 2 tuning filters without hearing a big difference to be honest.


Now it's great, after burning up and selecting the paralon nozzles, which is in the photo. They sit very comfortably, using a classic cable-down fit. The difference between replaceable filters is very much audible to me, maybe I or you installed them incorrectly, since we have the opposite experience. Have you tried listening to the difference between filters in rubber nozzles? It was noticeable both on the standard driver module and on the 150th module.


----------



## LordZero

How is the fit and the flexibility of the cable of the datura pro compared to the bk2? I wanted something to watch youtube, movies, some music while studying, and the bk2 were perfect, but a little treble centric.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 13, 2021)

LordZero said:


> How is the fit and the flexibility of the cable of the datura pro compared to the bk2? I wanted something to watch youtube, movies, some music while studying, and the bk2 were perfect, but a little treble centric.


Cable has very good quality and beautifully woven, you can wear buds both way, over-ears or cable-down.
To get full potential and best SQ (balanced sound signature) you need to use compensation files for PEQ or GraphicEQ created by @Sam L


----------



## Sam L

LordZero said:


> How is the fit and the flexibility of the cable of the datura pro compared to the bk2? I wanted something to watch youtube, movies, some music while studying, and the bk2 were perfect, but a little treble centric.


The BK2 is one of my favorite buds and I think the only one I listen to without eq (besides the drivers don't take eq well at all.) The cable on the bk2 is softer and more flexible, but the Datura Pro cable is still excellent. As far as sound quality (if you're willing to use eq on the datura pro), they are not in the same league at all, despite being similarly priced. The datura pro sounds much, much  better than the bk2.


----------



## LordZero

furyossa said:


> Cable has very good quality and beautifully woven, you can wear buds both way, over-ears or cable-down.
> To get full potential and best SQ (balanced sound signature) you need to use compensation files for PEQ or GraphicEQ created by @Sam L



Thank you! Is there something for android where i can use those files? Or at least have a similiar eq.



Sam L said:


> The BK2 is one of my favorite buds and I think the only one I listen to without eq (besides the drivers don't take eq well at all.) The cable on the bk2 is softer and more flexible, but the Datura Pro cable is still excellent. As far as sound quality (if you're willing to use eq on the datura pro), they are not in the same league at all, despite being similarly priced. The datura pro sounds much, much  better than the bk2.



Thanks! I love bk2 too, but cable is broken and the left side sometimes buzz, I didn't found any hair in the tiny holes, so maybe the drive is just bad or loose. Wish that i know how to open them without breaking everything.

So, I was looking for something diferent and better, the Datura Pro, looks like that 

Also, without eq they sound better than the bk2?


----------



## furyossa (Jan 13, 2021)

LordZero said:


> Thank you! Is there something for android where i can use those files? Or at least have a similiar eq.


I you are Windows user than you can try Equalizer APO with Peace as GUI.
If you are familiar with VST plugins for audio programs u can load these and use whit EquilizerAPO
For Android 9 and above the best choice is Wavelet app.
For Android 8 and below RE Equalizer or Eqfy Equalizer (10-Band graphic equalizer) but for these I manually change the settings.
And one of the most important things is that all these EQs are free.


LordZero said:


> Also, without eq they sound better than the bk2?


Let me explain you this way, build quality and overall looks of this model is worth between $25-$35 without a doubt
About tuning: DaturaPRO without EQ correction (stock tuning) is worth *$1* (the VIDO is $2-$3) and with EQ, exceeds over *$100.*
This is currently the low price at which this model has been sold so far ($23.94)


----------



## The3DCie (Jan 13, 2021)

furyossa said:


> I skip *DaturaX *because of large shell, but I really like their retro look. The shell is heavy because they do not use aluminum shell as *DaturaPro*, looks like brass, but I'm not sure if it's just a finish or pure brass?
> On the other hand, *DaturaPro *is a really improved version of *DaturaX *in every sense, maybe not in tuning but with the help of EQ and this problem is solved although I think there is still room for sound improvement (also design  ) due to the surprising capabilities of the aluminum-coated driver.


Datura X & Datura Pro are the exact same size, the only "big" differences are the stem, which is thinner and seems longer (only seems as they are the same length actually), and the integrated rubber ring on Datura X, whereas Datura Pro is slippery as hell, hence the rubber rings I have put on mine (on the photo you cn see one side with the rubber ring and the other without it, to show the difference), as I use them with donuts foams and those foams have no chance at all to stay in place given the metal shell of Datura Pro.

I can confirm as well that Datura X are made of brass (or any other heavy metal if it ever wasn't brass!) and given how heavy they are compared to Datura Pro I can assure you it's not just finish!   

Anyway they look great as well and they sound totally different from Datura Pro, I would say that they are a "fun listen" if it ever means anything!  

Here are the 2 pairs side by side:


----------



## The3DCie

baskingshark said:


> Any owners of the K's Nameless here?
> 
> I haven't had much time to spend with it since getting it, but I realize is sounds super muffled in the bass when full foams or donut foams are used. Have to use it totally without any covers then the clarity in the bass comes back. I suspect the foams is covering a vent or something. Without foam covers it is quite a well balanced U shaped set, kind of reminds me of the RY4S 300 ohm in tuning, just that it is much easier to drive and is a slightly less refined version of it.


I thought of giving them a try on Monday when I took advantage of the new sale on AE (as well as KBear Stellar, which seem interesting to me), but I finally decide that I had enough MX500 shells already, and I even have to buy TY Hi-Z 32 again as I lost my pair.  

I think a lot of MX500 buds (at least from those I tried) are almost all on the warm side, the exception being TY Hi-Z 32 which is very clear sounding (probably even a bit thin sometimes), with great extension on both end, I really dig them!


----------



## The3DCie

furyossa said:


> What can you ask ... well if we're not taking $20 into account ... maybe *DaturaPro'21* ("2021" has already become a trend in the name of every new model) with new features:
> - modular cable with switchable plugs (2.5mm, 3.5mm, 4.4mm, USB-C)
> - better shell finish (the existing shell is too slippery and does not hold foam well. Cerakote coating is one of the options)
> - MMCX version (this is optional, the stock cable is good and MMCX will only add unnecessary weight. Also, Hibiscus cable can be a good choice.)
> ...


Ha ha, that's a nice wishlist, for sure!   

• As for the modular cable that would be cool as few earbuds can be used from balanced sources! (I don't have any balanced source but the more option, the better)
• I'm finding the shell finish gorgeous!   But I agree it's really slippery, even more when you try to stick donuts foams only! In that case I have installed rubber rings and it works wonderfully, those Datura Pro are so good that they're worth the effort to get the best out of them! 
• I'm sure @baskingshark will agree with you 1000% on detachable cable as he seems to be very careful about that! (though I think that, if given the choice, he would probably opt for 2pin rather than MMCX...  ) I'm used to non-detachable cables, as it's somewhat the norm with earbuds (even pricier ones!), and I must be lucky (again!) as I never experienced any problem with cables as of yet! (and now that I've said it, it will arrive...)
• As for the higher impedance I'm not too sure as I'm driving my earbuds with low powered sources...  
• On the last point, I have nothing to say than a BIG *YES!!!    *


----------



## furyossa (Jan 13, 2021)

The3DCie said:


> Datura X & Datura Pro are the exact same size, the only "big" differences are the stem, which is thinner and seems longer (only seems as they are the same length actually), and the integrated rubber ring on Datura X, whereas Datura Pro is slippery as hell, hence the rubber rings I have put on mine (on the photo you cn see one side with the rubber ring and the other without it, to show the difference), as I use them with donuts foams and those foams have no chance at all to stay in place given the metal shell of Datura Pro.
> 
> I can confirm as well that Datura X are made of brass (or any other heavy metal if it ever wasn't brass!) and given how heavy they are compared to Datura Pro I can assure you it's not just finish!
> 
> ...


Yup. DaturaX has brass shell, and it seems to me that the driver is a little bigger too. "Concave arc" shape can affect the fit.
I think that future DaturaPro'21 will have "concave arc" shape if we follow evolution the first two versions


----------



## furyossa

The3DCie said:


> I thought of giving them a try on Monday when I took advantage of the new sale on AE (as well as KBear Stellar, which seem interesting to me), but I finally decide that I had enough MX500 shells already, and I even have to buy TY Hi-Z 32 again as I lost my pair.
> 
> I think a lot of MX500 buds (at least from those I tried) are almost all on the warm side, the exception being TY Hi-Z 32 which is very clear sounding (probably even a bit thin sometimes), with great extension on both end, I really dig them!


There really are a lot of TY Hi-Z models, like some tribe
According to this review, it seems to me that models with higher impedance dominate in terms of SQ as well


----------



## furyossa

The3DCie said:


> Ha ha, that's a nice wishlist, for sure!
> 
> • As for the modular cable that would be cool as few earbuds can be used from balanced sources! (I don't have any balanced source but the more option, the better)
> • I'm finding the shell finish gorgeous!   But I agree it's really slippery, even more when you try to stick donuts foams only! In that case I have installed rubber rings and it works wonderfully, those Datura Pro are so good that they're worth the effort to get the best out of them!
> ...



That's why I didn't mention lighting plug  USB-C will be used only to store EQ settings 
Don't get me wrong, the shell is nice, but it is too polished, so that friction does not exist. The rubber rings increase the diameter so that it will not suit everyone.
They need to re-design the shell stem to be the wider for any detachable connection which will disrupt the aesthetics and function of the vent system through the stem. I agree with you about non-detachable cable
higher impedance = less distortion on higher  volume levels but there are many other benefits


----------



## The3DCie

furyossa said:


> There really are a lot of TY Hi-Z models, like some tribe
> According to this review, it seems to me that models with higher impedance dominate in terms of SQ as well


That's for sure, I did read these mini-reviews of the lineup and I quite agree with his take on Ty Hi-Z 32, can' comment on the other ones as I didn't get to listen to them!   

One thing I know is that I really like Ty Hi-Z 32 sound and if I had to keep only one MX500 shell (which might be the case as they are quite weird to wear over ear, even if they are really comfortable to wear like this...) it would definitely be this one.


----------



## baskingshark

furyossa said:


> higher impedance = less distortion on higher volume levels but there are many other benefits



Agree with the less distortion. But what are the other benefits with higher impedance gear? Am keen to learn too about this.
If that's the case, if one has the source to back it up, should we choose the higher impedance option if say a particular earbud comes in a few difference impedances?


----------



## LordZero

furyossa said:


> I you are Windows user than you can try Equalizer APO with Peace as GUI.
> If you are familiar with VST plugins for audio programs u can load these and use whit EquilizerAPO
> For Android 9 and above the best choice is Wavelet app.
> For Android 8 and below RE Equalizer or Eqfy Equalizer (10-Band graphic equalizer) but for these I manually change the settings.
> ...



Thank you very much! Very helpful! I will order one


----------



## The3DCie

furyossa said:


> Let me explain you this way, build quality and overall looks of this model is worth between $25-$35 without a doubt
> About tuning: DaturaPRO without EQ correction (stock tuning) is worth *$1* (the VIDO is $2-$3) and with EQ, exceeds over *$100.*
> This is currently the low price at which this model has been sold so far ($23.94)


I can only agree 100% with that statement (even though I quite liked the original tuning as well, wouldn’t have called them $1 earbuds!), those are GREAT with @Sam L EQ, it’s almost unreal!
I can’t tell about TOTL sounding earbuds as I don’t have any in my collection but I can say without a doubt that they are, with this EQ, the absolute best sounding earphones I´ve the pleasure to listen to.    

And as @Sam L says I will stop here or we all will look like fanboys, or worst, like affiliated shameless promoters!!


----------



## ThanosD

Hi, I am looking for a recommendation. Right now, I own a pair of S****r PT15, but I feel I want more bass, and also a bit more detailed treble. I want to spend around 30$. E detachable cable (mmcx) is a plus, and I don't have a problem assembling a set, or modding a set regarding the detachable cable, but I don't want to mess with tuning, foams and such. Also, I won't be using any eq


----------



## The3DCie

ThanosD said:


> Hi, I am looking for a recommendation. Right now, I own a pair of S****r PT15, but I feel I want more bass, and also a bit more detailed treble. I want to spend around 30$. E detachable cable (mmcx) is a plus, and I don't have a problem assembling a set, or modding a set regarding the detachable cable, but I don't want to mess with tuning, foams and such. Also, I won't be using any eq


Don't know the PT15 (I own PT25 though, which is excellent, but it's an Earpods like shell) but if you want bass and (very very) good overall sound, with MMCX, I can recommend JCALLY EP05, which are the only earbuds I wear cable down (or over ear if I really want lots of bass!) and are warm sounding, have good bass in quantity as well as quality, and are airy and detailed in the high-end of the spectrum, one of my preferred set right now, I even bought the entire line of JCALLY products (JC10 and EP01) on Monday to see if they were as good as their siblings!    

Worth a try and they are only $13 or $14 on AE so you don't take a great risk.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 14, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Agree with the less distortion. But what are the other benefits with higher impedance gear? Am keen to learn too about this.
> If that's the case, if one has the source to back it up, should we choose the higher impedance option if say a particular earbud comes in a few difference impedances?


Drivers with an impedance greater than 50ohm are considered high impedance drivers. Probably because of that LG smartphones require >50ohm to be able to use Quad DAC.
The main difference between low (short *L.I.D*) and high impedance drivers (short *H.I.D*) is voice coil. H.I.D. uses very thin wire (thinner than hair strand) with more windings than L.I.D.
I will let an expert to explain how the whole system works.
To be able to get all benefits from these drivers we need also good source ie amplifier which will provide them adequate power.
In my experience all high impedance drivers which I tried, in the case when we have a lineup of models with different impedance, sound better than low impedance models.
As I mention earlier, first we have less distortion, low frequencies are more refined and have better definition, sound is more spacious, clean and transparent.
Adjusting the volume is much more precise and what I liked most was how well they work with tube amplifier.
Also, what I would recommend to use balanced cables for models with these drivers, primarily due to the higher output power of amplifier


----------



## Sam L

LordZero said:


> Thank you very much! Very helpful! I will order one


you won't be disappointed! I'm in full agreement with @furyossa, but I'm not as harsh in describing the datura pro stock tuning as worth $1. My guess is that he came into his purchase with some baseline expectations that weren't met, far from it. I'd put the stock sound profile being similar to the monk+, which I consider garbage. But maybe valued at $5 worth of sound for me.


----------



## Sam L

ThanosD said:


> Hi, I am looking for a recommendation. Right now, I own a pair of S****r PT15, but I feel I want more bass, and also a bit more detailed treble. I want to spend around 30$. E detachable cable (mmcx) is a plus, and I don't have a problem assembling a set, or modding a set regarding the detachable cable, but I don't want to mess with tuning, foams and such. Also, I won't be using any eq


oh wait, is Sen**r a censored brand here on headfi? I prob should hunt down the banned brands list...


----------



## Sam L

Good morning everyone! (or night for many of you) 2 to 3 times a week I head over to a co-working space and hit the job search. Lately I've been bringing a monitor with me. 

But, of course, the most important work equipment is our earbuds! Here's today's sampling. I tend to rotate between 3 or 4 buds each day. Thanks for the sonata hd dac recommendation. Excellent dac for the laptop, though it can't drive any of my high impedance buds.


----------



## ThanosD

The3DCie said:


> Don't know the PT15 (I own PT25 though, which is excellent, but it's an Earpods like shell) but if you want bass and (very very) good overall sound, with MMCX, I can recommend JCALLY EP05, which are the only earbuds I wear cable down (or over ear if I really want lots of bass!) and are warm sounding, have good bass in quantity as well as quality, and are airy and detailed in the high-end of the spectrum, one of my preferred set right now, I even bought the entire line of JCALLY products (JC10 and EP01) on Monday to see if they were as good as their siblings!
> 
> Worth a try and they are only $13 or $14 on AE so you don't take a great risk.


Hmm, they seem to meet a lot of my criteria, and yeah, at that price there is no risk. 

Reading a bit around here, I saw a few other earbuds, like TMusic Beryllium, FENGRU DIY EMX500, that might also meet my criteria, and I was wandering if you, or anybody else would recommend any of those against the EP05, even though I will probably order both the EP05, and the EMX500, and see what I like the best


----------



## mtl171

Sam L said:


> Good morning everyone! (or night for many of you) 2 to 3 times a week I head over to a co-working space and hit the job search. Lately I've been bringing a monitor with me.
> 
> But, of course, the most important work equipment is our earbuds! Here's today's sampling. I tend to rotate between 3 or 4 buds each day. Thanks for the sonata hd dac recommendation. Excellent dac for the laptop, though it can't drive any of my high impedance buds.


Oppo HA2! My favorite portable amp that I haven't been able to find a suitable replacement for. Whats the white cabled earbuds?

On another topic, I recently learned that the reasons I think my HD650s sound so bad is cause I didn't listen to them loud enough (had them at 50dB when I really should have had them at mid 60s). With that in mind, what dB level to you listen to your earbuds at? I find it tricky to gauge volume with buds as the sound leakage makes mid 70dB sound like 60dB to me (too used to IEM seal).


----------



## Sam L

mtl171 said:


> Oppo HA2! My favorite portable amp that I haven't been able to find a suitable replacement for. Whats the white cabled earbuds?
> 
> On another topic, I recently learned that the reasons I think my HD650s sound so bad is cause I didn't listen to them loud enough (had them at 50dB when I really should have had them at mid 60s). With that in mind, what dB level to you listen to your earbuds at? I find it tricky to gauge volume with buds as the sound leakage makes mid 70dB sound like 60dB to me (too used to IEM seal).


Agreed, the HA2 is an exceptional portable amp. I gave up finding a true replacement for it when my battery died and instead chose to just replace the battery.

It took a while to hunt down a battery that worked. I detail replacement here.


----------



## Sam L (Jan 14, 2021)

The3DCie said:


> I can only agree 100% with that statement (even though I quite liked the original tuning as well, wouldn’t have called them $1 earbuds!), those are GREAT with @Sam L EQ, it’s almost unreal!
> I can’t tell about TOTL sounding earbuds as I don’t have any in my collection but I can say without a doubt that they are, with this EQ, the absolute best sounding earphones I´ve the pleasure to listen to.
> 
> And as @Sam L says I will stop here or we all will look like fanboys, or worst, like affiliated shameless promoters!!


I'm just happy that there are a few more users here on head-fi willing to try some eq profiles out on earbuds. At the start of the pandemic, I felt lonely putting up all these measurements and eq settings. I also posted on occasion on the EA group on FB, but there's no interest in EQ'ing buds over there.

I'm still relatively new to the world of earbuds, so I'm not very familiar with how TOTL earbud sound, though I picked up the Fiio EM5 to satisfy my curiosity. When I get a new job, I plan on pickup up quite a few higher-end buds, not for their sound, but just to add credibility to my work on budget buds.

**edit** regarding eventually getting higher-end buds, I'll also get them because I'm curious if they are really that much better than say, a compensated datura pro.


----------



## Sam L

mtl171 said:


> Whats the white cabled earbuds?


K's Nameless!


----------



## Sam L

mtl171 said:


> Oppo HA2! My favorite portable amp that I haven't been able to find a suitable replacement for. Whats the white cabled earbuds?
> 
> On another topic, I recently learned that the reasons I think my HD650s sound so bad is cause I didn't listen to them loud enough (had them at 50dB when I really should have had them at mid 60s). With that in mind, what dB level to you listen to your earbuds at? I find it tricky to gauge volume with buds as the sound leakage makes mid 70dB sound like 60dB to me (too used to IEM seal).


That's an interesting question. I've heard the same regarding the HD650's. I was about to pull the trigger on a set before I got sucked into earbuds. My volume levels are all over the place, but in general I've not noticed that much sound degradation from lowered volumes with earbuds, other than Fletcher Munson impact (which I don't classify as a degradation). 

I just switched to the smabat s10s just now and am listening to them at quite a bit higher volume than the faaeals I was just listening too, but that's because on occasion, I'll wear my smabat's really loosely (but over ear) and the extra volume is required. bass takes a hit, but since I'm launching into Perahia's Mozart Piano Concerto cycle, I don't need any bass slam.


----------



## furyossa

The3DCie said:


> I can only agree 100% with that statement (even though I quite liked the original tuning as well, wouldn’t have called them $1 earbuds!), those are GREAT with @Sam L EQ, it’s almost unreal!
> I can’t tell about TOTL sounding earbuds as I don’t have any in my collection but I can say without a doubt that they are, with this EQ, the absolute best sounding earphones I´ve the pleasure to listen to.



What I consider $1 tuning. We all hear differently, some tastes match and some don’t and every comment is based on personal experience and subjective thinking. 
There are some buds in range $2-$5 that sound decent, but on the other hand, there are models that simply cannot be tolerated. The sound just isn't good in the sense that you feel uncomfortable listening during a 15min period. 
While I'm at work, I often use my four-channel Amp with 3-4 pairs of buds that I randomly swap without minding which pair I'm listening. In this way, it's very easy to spot a pair who have a "low level of tolerance", especially if you're focused on work
If you listen to famous songs that you enjoy and if you are disturbed because the sound of the buds is not good (bad tuning) then I can't rank them with models worth $2-$5. 
A better definition for "$1 tuning" buds will be : put the driver in the shell, wrap it up and sell it.
BTW... I don't believe in TOTL nor in the "end game" gear because, as I mentioned earlier, sound is a subjective thing. Every day we see new gear, new innovations and technologies, constantly chasing perfection.
But of course we will always have a division into high-end and low-end and something in between. 




Sam L said:


> you won't be disappointed! I'm in full agreement with @furyossa, but I'm not as harsh in describing the datura pro stock tuning as worth $1. My guess is that he came into his purchase with some baseline expectations that weren't met, far from it. I'd put the stock sound profile being similar to the monk+, which I consider garbage. But maybe valued at $5 worth of sound for me.


I had no expectations for this model because I don't own any Faaeal model and I don't know what theirs "house" signature is. 
The only model I had high expectations based on the DLC driver that performed well with the BLON BL-03, is BGVP DX5 and I regret it because of that


----------



## furyossa

ThanosD said:


> Hi, I am looking for a recommendation. Right now, I own a pair of S****r PT15, but I feel I want more bass, and also a bit more detailed treble. I want to spend around 30$. E detachable cable (mmcx) is a plus, and I don't have a problem assembling a set, or modding a set regarding the detachable cable, but I don't want to mess with tuning, foams and such. Also, I won't be using any eq


Go str8 to the latest model PT2021, Be the first to pull the trigger Just kidding
I don't see any MMCX model in that price range (<$30). RY4S Plus is not bad at all especially for $7.51. Better low-end but smooth treble HE 150Pro.


----------



## mtl171

Sam L said:


> That's an interesting question. I've heard the same regarding the HD650's. I was about to pull the trigger on a set before I got sucked into earbuds. My volume levels are all over the place, but in general I've not noticed that much sound degradation from lowered volumes with earbuds, other than Fletcher Munson impact (which I don't classify as a degradation).
> 
> I just switched to the smabat s10s just now and am listening to them at quite a bit higher volume than the faaeals I was just listening too, but that's because on occasion, I'll wear my smabat's really loosely (but over ear) and the extra volume is required. bass takes a hit, but since I'm launching into Perahia's Mozart Piano Concerto cycle, I don't need any bass slam.


My hunch is that most earbuds are tuned to be a more V shape to compensate for less seal and sound leakage so they sound a bit better at lower volumes. There are certain listening things on the market that do take volume of playback into account when doing adaptive EQ  for fletcher munson compensation (airpod pros and qc35 come to mind), though not quite sure that would benefit earbuds much due to lack of seal.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 14, 2021)

ThanosD said:


> Hmm, they seem to meet a lot of my criteria, and yeah, at that price there is no risk.
> 
> Reading a bit around here, I saw a few other earbuds, like TMusic Beryllium, FENGRU DIY EMX500, that might also meet my criteria, and I was wandering if you, or anybody else would recommend any of those against the EP05, even though I will probably order both the EP05, and the EMX500, and see what I like the best


You mentioned that you not mind doing some DIY work, right? Be sure to check DIY Earbuds thread for more recommendations. All these models by OpenHeart , FENGRU are assembled from DIY parts. Also, all parts and other useful info you can find in this post.


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> I'm just happy that there are a few more users here on head-fi willing to try some eq profiles out on earbuds. At the start of the pandemic, I felt lonely putting up all these measurements and eq settings. I also posted on occasion on the EA group on FB, but there's no interest in EQ'ing buds over there.
> 
> I'm still relatively new to the world of earbuds, so I'm not very familiar with how TOTL earbud sound, though I picked up the Fiio EM5 to satisfy my curiosity. When I get a new job, I plan on pickup up quite a few higher-end buds, not for their sound, but just to add credibility to my work on budget buds.
> 
> **edit** regarding eventually getting higher-end buds, I'll also get them because I'm curious if they are really that much better than say, a compensated datura pro.


I strongly believe some high impedance DIY drivers with "exotic" coating, and with right EQ tuning can reach the level on some flagship branded models, when it comes to sound quality. Even if it is 80% I will be satisfied because the price-quality ratio is still a big advantage.
I care more about fit and comfort than what material the shell is made of. Also, you can always add expensive cable as "cherry on the top"


----------



## ThanosD

furyossa said:


> You mentioned that you not mind doing some DIY work, right? Be sure to check DIY Earbuds thread for more recommendations. All these models by OpenHeart , FENGRU are assembled from DIY parts. Also, all parts and other useful info you can find in this post.


Alright, thanks a lot, I will post my question there too! Although, if I can get the already assembled earbuds for like, 10$, why should I bother assembling them? Also, do you have any particular recommendations for a DIY set?


----------



## furyossa

ThanosD said:


> Alright, thanks a lot, I will post my question there too! Although, if I can get the already assembled earbuds for like, 10$, why should I bother assembling them? Also, do you have any particular recommendations for a DIY set?


Because it's so much more fun, you can experiment and try more different things  see my inventory, I tagged the links with # 1, # 2 ....
also go trough the DIY earbuds thread, there are very cool mods by different DIY-ers


----------



## baskingshark

Sam L said:


> oh wait, is Sen**r a censored brand here on headfi? I prob should hunt down the banned brands list...



U can look at @Slater 's signature to see the details and reasons for the banned CHIFI brands and shops on Headfi.


----------



## slex

Looks interesting, I wonder it can hook up to bluetooth adapters like BT20S Pro. Btw, it's XXXXXF. 😄


----------



## chinmie

slex said:


> Looks interesting, I wonder it can hook up to bluetooth adapters like BT20S Pro. Btw, it's XXXXXF. 😄



you can, and you can choose whether to wear it from over ear or under


----------



## slex

chinmie said:


> you can, and you can choose whether to wear it from over ear or under


Great! Sounds like a miniature full HP☺️👍


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Head's Up!  *@ClieOS* has posted a few more earbuds pics over on *Earbuds Paradise*


----------



## slex

WoodyLuvr said:


> Head's Up!  *@ClieOS* has posted a few more earbuds pics over on *Earbuds Paradise*






I like!😄


----------



## furyossa (Jan 15, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Head's Up!  *@ClieOS* has posted a few more earbuds pics over on *Earbuds Paradise*


What a privilege when you are God in earbuds paradise
BTW ... PT2021 cable looks amazing 
Hmmm... EBX21 buds looks cool but when I look at them with a cable something doesn’t fit properly. 
They could definitely shorten the MMCX housing on the cable and match the same cross-section shape (truncated circle) with shell stem.
All in all I hope to see some reviews for these two '21 pairs


----------



## RuFrost

Does anybody have some earbuds from "Rose" for sale\trade?
Like Rose Masya (1,2), Rose Mojito, Rose Maria (1,2)...

PM me, please, if you have one))


----------



## vygas

So I ended up snagging my first pair of Monk+, someone in Portugal was selling a sealed Red Monk+ and an unsealed one on eBay so I bought the sealed one for the same price as the normal one on Amazon. I'll provide some pictures once I get my pair in a week or so, I hope everyone here has a good weekend  .


----------



## WoodyLuvr

chinmie said:


> you can, and you can choose whether to wear it from over ear or under


Have you had a chance to demo the ****** PT2021 earbuds yet?


----------



## povidlo

NiceHCK ME80 + Yurbuds covers = bass and treble are more pronounced with taller but less wide soundstage. Good synergy due to ME80 being mid-focused. Similar effect to modding over-ear headphones with angled pads. 



Spoiler: Pics


----------



## jogawag (Jan 16, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Head's Up!  *@ClieOS* has posted a few more earbuds pics over on *Earbuds Paradise*


"Another excellent ToTL earbuds from Yincrow, the RW-2000. #Yincrow"
I see that the Yincrow RW-2000 has been declared a ToTL on Earbuds Paradise. I have RW-2000 and I am happy about it.


----------



## The3DCie

Sam L said:


> I'm just happy that there are a few more users here on head-fi willing to try some eq profiles out on earbuds. At the start of the pandemic, I felt lonely putting up all these measurements and eq settings. I also posted on occasion on the EA group on FB, but there's no interest in EQ'ing buds over there.


I agree it's a pity to overlook EQ'ing as a bad thing, because sometimes you can have a great base that just needs an extra step to sound fantastic, the best example being once again Faaeal Datura Pro!   

And I think we are only at the beginning, EQ'ing being almost "stone age" when the real revolution is / will be real time DSP sound processing taking into account the surrounding of audio gears!

The only thing I can understand one want an excellent OOTB sounding earbud or IEM is when used with no EQ gears, like when I'm listening to my iPod Suffle, I want already good sounding buds, Datura Pro being a "No Go" now...


----------



## The3DCie

povidlo said:


> NiceHCK ME80 + Yurbuds covers = bass and treble are more pronounced with taller but less wide soundstage. Good synergy due to ME80 being mid-focused. Similar effect to modding over-ear headphones with angled pads.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Pics


NiceHCK ME80 are really excellent earbuds, that unfortunately didn't fit my ears so I didn't keep them.   
But I got BK2 at the same time (that I didn't keep either) and there was a BIG difference in sound quality to my ears, ME80 being a lot better in about every department!  

It's great to see you enjoy them, they're totally worth it and the build quality at that price point was very impressive as well!


----------



## The3DCie

jogawag said:


> Another excellent ToTL earbuds from Yincrow, the RW-2000. #Yincrow
> I see that the Yincrow RW-2000 has been declared a ToTL on Earbuds Paradise. I have RW-2000 and I am happy about it.


I like Yincrow, I have RW-777 and enjoy them a lot!  

I might get a pair of RW-1000 or RW-2000 later, though I wish RW-2000 come in any other color than this blue one, I couldn't buy them just because of that!...


----------



## furyossa

The3DCie said:


> I agree it's a pity to overlook EQ'ing as a bad thing, because sometimes you can have a great base that just needs an extra step to sound fantastic, the best example being once again Faaeal Datura Pro!
> 
> And I think we are only at the beginning, EQ'ing being almost "stone age" when the real revolution is / will be real time DSP sound processing taking into account the surrounding of audio gears!
> 
> The only thing I can understand one want an excellent OOTB sounding earbud or IEM is when used with no EQ gears, like when I'm listening to my iPod Suffle, I want already good sounding buds, Datura Pro being a "No Go" now...


Yup. I completely agree. It is very important that the stock tuning is good,  because it is not a solution to rely constantly on EQ correction. Also, it's not a solution to disassemble the buds and do mods to regulate some shortcomings, because there is a risk that something will go wrong in the process. This applies to ToTl buds.
When it comes to budget models, there's a different story. Because I like to experiment and try different things, for me personally these cheaper models have great value.
This confirms the fact that there is more talk about these models, here on the forum, than about "ToTL" buds.


----------



## furyossa

The3DCie said:


> I like Yincrow, I have RW-777 and enjoy them a lot!
> 
> I might get a pair of RW-1000 or RW-2000 later, though I wish RW-2000 come in any other color than this blue one, I couldn't buy them just because of that!...


Can you describe Yincrow RW-777 sound signature? Because of these buds I bought DIY shell which is very similar. Currently, I use 130ohm beryllium driver with it.


----------



## The3DCie

furyossa said:


> Yup. I completely agree. It is very important that the stock tuning is good,  because it is not a solution to rely constantly on EQ correction. Also, it's not a solution to disassemble the buds and do mods to regulate some shortcomings, because there is a risk that something will go wrong in the process. This applies to ToTl buds.
> When it comes to budget models, there's a different story. Because I like to experiment and try different things, for me personally these cheaper models have great value.
> This confirms the fact that there is more talk about these models, here on the forum, than about "ToTL" buds.


Yeah, a good tuning OOTB doesn't hurt, that's for sure!      
As for the talk about budget models than TOTL buds, I also think it has a lot to do with the fact that even $2 buds can sound fantastic (in fact almost all earbuds I have tried sound good to really really good) and that the "diminishing return" is even greater with buds!
Why would one want to go higher when what they have is already great, except curiosity, of course?  

I for one dig the JCALLY EP-05 sound and have bought the other gears in the lineup, even EP-01 which are $2 buds in an interesting shape, will find out how they sound and report back when they have arrived.


----------



## The3DCie

furyossa said:


> Can you describe Yincrow RW-777 sound signature? Because of these buds I bought DIY shell which is very similar. Currently, I use 130ohm beryllium driver with it.


Yours sound probably even better than the "original" RW-777 with 130ohms beryllium drivers!  

As for the sound signature (taking into account the way I wear my buds, as always!), I find them very balanced, on the warm side (as most earbuds when worn over-ear, with the driver pointing towards the ear canal), with good details (but not analytical by any means), they are quite soft on trebles (not too much sparkle, but a well extended FR as far as I can tell) and have good bass, quite quick and not too rolled of, even though they are far from being my bassier set.

Overall I like their relaxed sound, which, coupled with great fit (they disappear completely in my ears!), make them great to listen to for long period of times without worrying about anything else than music.

If I had to compare I would say that K's LBW, which are in the same price range and almost the same size (though not totally the same shell), are perhaps a bit more lively and extend better in bass, but I quite prefer Yincrow for long sessions and classical music. K's for jazz and electro, when fun comes into play.


----------



## furyossa

The3DCie said:


> Why would one want to go higher when what they have is already great, except curiosity, of course?


Curiosity can be detrimental to the wallet...sometimes  The look can be deceiving, uses a magnifying glass  at all times


----------



## furyossa (Jan 17, 2021)

The3DCie said:


> Yours sound probably even better than the "original" RW-777 with 130ohms beryllium drivers!


Yes, 100% sound better but not in this shell. Bery 130ohm aka. "6-pack" works better in medium-cavity-size shells. In this "RW-777 like" shell (small-cavity-size shell) the sub-bass is rolled off and sound more intimate like closed-back headphones. Overall sound is not bad but I don't really like this kind of sound i.e. tune that much


----------



## kakaworu (Jan 16, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Yes, 100% sound better but not in this shell. Bery 130ohm aka. "6-pack" works better in medium-cavity-size shells. In this "RW-777 like" shell (small-cavity-size shell) the sub-bass is rolled off and
> sound more intimate like closed-back headphones. Overall sound is not bad but I don't really like this kind of sound i.e. tune that much


Thanks for letting us know about the influence of cavity size . I wonder if you have a classification of common shells? I also have 130ohm bery drivers in MX500 shells and one kind of wood shells. I found the Mx500 sounds much more bassy than the wood one. And the wood one has some kind of holographic effect that MX500 shell just can't reach. But the comfort of the mx500 shell is unbeatable.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 17, 2021)

kakaworu said:


> Thanks for letting us know about the influence of cavity size . I wonder if you have a classification of common shells? I also have 130ohm bery drivers in MX500 shells and one kind of wood shells. I found the Mx500 sounds much more bassy than the wood one. And the wood one has some kind of holographic effect that MX500 shell just can't reach.


I did't try wooden shell with Bery. Also, that shell has more "room" than Mx500 and I noticed that this driver works better in such conditions. This is my subjective opinion.
Probably the resonance of wood creates a slightly warmer feeling and in your example holographic effect which is nice.
A agree about the comfort of Mx500 shell, ergonomics is better for sure. DP100 shell has better comfort then MX500 shell
My personal favorite shells,  when it comes to comfort , are these. Also, you don't need to use glue. I use these for 600ohm Bery.
BTW...In my inventory you can find links for all 3 mods for 130ohm Bery (they are marked with #1, #2, #3)


----------



## furyossa (Jan 17, 2021)

kakaworu said:


> Thanks for letting us know about the influence of cavity size . I wonder if you have a classification of common shells? I also have 130ohm bery drivers in MX500 shells and one kind of wood shells. I found the Mx500 sounds much more bassy than the wood one. And the wood one has some kind of holographic effect that MX500 shell just can't reach. But the comfort of the mx500 shell is unbeatable.


One suggestion. You can achieve better comfort and appearance with a 4-core cable and these small mmcx connectors. This is 90 degree version
Edit: we talk about "tiger" cable here which is very nice. IMO It fits perfectly with small mmcx connectors and wooden shells


----------



## Alex.Grimm

jogawag said:


> "Another excellent ToTL earbuds from Yincrow, the RW-2000. #Yincrow"
> I see that the Yincrow RW-2000 has been declared a ToTL on Earbuds Paradise. I have RW-2000 and I am happy about it.


Yes, nice buds, better than all Smabat's


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 17, 2021)

Alex.Grimm said:


> Yes, nice buds, better than all Smabat's


Drats!  I curse you sir... I now have these on my mind! You are a very, very bad influence !


----------



## Alex.Grimm

WoodyLuvr said:


> Drats!  I curse you sir... I now have these on my mind! You are a very, very bad influence !


I had all ST-10 Smabat's, it have good drivers, but this company does not know how to properly configure them. All three versions have a terrible setup. Gold Driver potential is not revealed. We in a group of Russian adiophiles were able to achieve much better sound using this gold driver and mx500 shell.


----------



## FranQL (Jan 17, 2021)

Hello! I was looking for information on the shade of Dendroaspis Viridis Green Mamba as I was thinking of buying one, but I hardly find any information.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

FranQL said:


> ¡Hola! Estaba buscando información sobre el tono del Dendroaspis Viridis Green Mamba, ya que estaba pensando en comprarme uno, pero apenas encuentro información.


The good sound requires a long burn up. Its good for instrumental music, sound airy/transparent, bright, widely stage, there is a lack of weight in the sound. For the discount price 56$ this is the top. But personally I do not like this manner of sound, I like full-bodied sound.


----------



## FranQL (Jan 17, 2021)

[QUOTE = "Alex.Grimm, publicación: 16112579, miembro: 514658"]
El buen sonido requiere una larga duración. Es bueno para la música instrumental, suena aireado / transparente, brillante, ampliamente en el escenario, hay una falta de peso en el sonido. Por el precio de descuento 56 $ este es el top. Pero personalmente no me gusta esta forma de sonido, me gusta el sonido con cuerpo.
[/CITAR]



Alex.Grimm said:


> The good sound requires a long burn up. Its good for instrumental music, sound airy/transparent, bright, widely stage, there is a lack of weight in the sound. For the discount price 56$ this is the top. But personally I do not like this manner of sound, I like full-bodied sound.


where did you find them at that price?

Thank you! I only have one earphone in my collection, it is RY4S, and it is uncomfortable (too big), I was looking for something with a better fit and of course better sound, so I accept recommendations, one after all I only have experience with iem.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Jan 17, 2021)

FranQL said:


> Thank you! I only have one earphone in my collection, it is RY4S, and it is uncomfortable (too big), I was looking for something with a better fit and of course better sound, so I accept recommendations, one after all I only have experience with iem.


If you want comfortable shell you can try Shozy BK or VE Zen LL (need amp or powerful dap)
If you need cheep variants then Qian39, Ve monk lite, Edifier h180


----------



## FranQL

I was looking at Zen lite, for amplification I have E1DA 9038 sg3, so it is not a problem, but today buying without interchangeable cables does not convince me.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Jan 17, 2021)

FranQL said:


> but today buying without interchangeable cables does not convince me.


Mmcx cable good for shell without leg, otherwise it is not comfortable


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Jan 17, 2021)

FranQL said:


> I was looking at Zen lite, for amplification I have E1DA 9038 sg3, so it is not a problem


Zen lite 300 and LL 150 have different impedance. Yes e1da good for drive


----------



## FranQL (Jan 17, 2021)

Zen LL had understood that it is oriented to multimedia content, I'm sure I'm wrong, between lite and LL your preference is LL?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

FranQL said:


> Zen LL had understood that it is oriented to multimedia content, I'm sure I'm wrong, between lite and LL your preference is LL?


I didn't try Lite, only LL


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> [QUOTE = "Alex.Grimm, publicación: 16112579, miembro: 514658"]
> El buen sonido requiere una larga duración. Es bueno para la música instrumental, suena aireado / transparente, brillante, ampliamente en el escenario, hay una falta de peso en el sonido. Por el precio de descuento 56 $ este es el top. Pero personalmente no me gusta esta forma de sonido, me gusta el sonido con cuerpo.
> [/CITAR]
> 
> ...


RY4S model has MX500 shell supports 15.4mm driver. I mention earlier that the only shell that uses the same driver size but has better ergonomics is the DP100.
@Alex.Grimm suggested  VE Zen LL which has also a bit smaller shell then MX500. But if you don't have a good source then feel free to skip this model.
On the other hand Shozy BK uses PK type of shell which supports 14.8mm driver and for you this buds are the right choice if you are looking for a pair with a great SQ,
of course if price is not an issue. Quan69 has unique shell which has one of the best ergonomics, but it’s a little harder to find these days.
PK2 with DOCOMO shells represents another champion in comfort category


----------



## FranQL (Jan 17, 2021)

Shozy BK seems very expensive to me, that is, as a reference for my budget, and after reading pages and pages of this thread, in my Ali basket: toneking to600, to400, dendroaspis,  BGVP DX5.. of your recommendations: Zen LL, I am not convinced, € 60. Quian39, these seem very cheap to me (€ 7). edifier, between € 8-14, never heard of them (speaker only) but for the price I can try. pk2 / do as I only find niceHCK


----------



## Braekfast

I've tried a couple of earbuds so far (ME80, B40, Monks [original, plus, lite], Kbear stellar) and so far I like the B40 the most. The sound signature just feels great to me when listening to youtube videos in bed or when listening to music while reading a book. It's very all-round to me, anything I throw at it sounds nice to listen to. 

So now I'm trying to find other earbuds that are similar to it, but I lack the knowledge/vocabulary to find good options. I'm just not sure how to compare earbuds/headphones without having listened to them yet. I'm trying to get a grasp on how frequency charts work, but it's not exactly smooth sailing. So I'm hoping you guys might have some reccommendations for me. I'm open to going for more expensive models, but do keep in mind that so far I'm running it straight off my smartphone, so anything with high(er) impedance will necessitate also buying an amp.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Braekfast said:


> I've tried a couple of earbuds so far (ME80, B40, Monks [original, plus, lite], Kbear stellar) and so far I like the B40 the most. The sound signature just feels great to me when listening to youtube videos in bed or when listening to music while reading a book. It's very all-round to me, anything I throw at it sounds nice to listen to.
> 
> So now I'm trying to find other earbuds that are similar to it, but I lack the knowledge/vocabulary to find good options. I'm just not sure how to compare earbuds/headphones without having listened to them yet. I'm trying to get a grasp on how frequency charts work, but it's not exactly smooth sailing. So I'm hoping you guys might have some reccommendations for me. I'm open to going for more expensive models, but do keep in mind that so far I'm running it straight off my smartphone, so anything with high(er) impedance will necessitate also buying an amp.


DQSM Turandot


----------



## RikudouGoku

Alex.Grimm said:


> DQSM Turandot


The turandot is VERY different from the B40.

I would rec the Yincrow X6.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

RikudouGoku said:


> The turandot is VERY different from the B40.


B40 its Turandot on minimal


----------



## The3DCie

FranQL said:


> Shozy BK seems very expensive to me, that is, as a reference for my budget, and after reading pages and pages of this thread, in my Ali basket: toneking to600, to400, dendroaspis,  BGVP DX5.. of your recommendations: Zen LL, I am not convinced, € 60. Quian39, these seem very cheap to me (€ 7). edifier, between € 8-14, never heard of them (speaker only) but for the price I can try. pk2 / do as I only find niceHCK


Hi.

Just remember that in "earbuds land" you can easily find great sounding buds for as little as a few bucks, so Qian39 @ $7 doesn't necessarily means that it's crap!
In fact there are models which sell for less which do sound really great!
I'm not saying that Qian39 sounds great either, as I didn't have the chance to try it, just a general remark about buds sounding great at about any price.

I know you don't seem to like MX500 shells (they aren't my favorites either, not because of comfort, which is excellent, but because of the way I wear my earbuds, MX500 shells look really weird when used over ear!...   ) but for example TY Hi-Z 32 is a real gem (to my ears at least) for $5! 

You could try NiceHCK B40, which usually sell for around $8/9, they have smaller shells and should fit comfortably in almost any ears.
Or, for a bit more you have K's LBB (or LBW, depending on the cable color) if you can still find them.

I would recommend without a problem JCALLY EP-05 but they are quite on the larger size for earbuds so fit might be a concern.

Ultimately you have TMusic Beryllium (wooden version) which are really excellent buds for around $13, but I have seen a lot of complain, either for QC problems or for orders that never arrived so I'm not sure I can fully recommend them, even if I have only praises to make about them.


----------



## The3DCie

RikudouGoku said:


> The turandot is VERY different from the B40.
> 
> I would rec the Yincrow X6.


And they are VERY far in prices as well!   

I didn't ear Yincrow X6, only that they really seem to sound great, might try them!


----------



## RikudouGoku

The3DCie said:


> And they are VERY far in prices as well!
> 
> I didn't ear Yincrow X6, only that they really seem to sound great, might try them!


The X6 is also different from the B40, but MUCH closer to it than the turandot at least. But yeah, it is epic, go get it if you dont have it.


----------



## The3DCie

Braekfast said:


> I've tried a couple of earbuds so far (ME80, B40, Monks [original, plus, lite], Kbear stellar) and so far I like the B40 the most. The sound signature just feels great to me when listening to youtube videos in bed or when listening to music while reading a book. It's very all-round to me, anything I throw at it sounds nice to listen to.
> 
> So now I'm trying to find other earbuds that are similar to it, but I lack the knowledge/vocabulary to find good options. I'm just not sure how to compare earbuds/headphones without having listened to them yet. I'm trying to get a grasp on how frequency charts work, but it's not exactly smooth sailing. So I'm hoping you guys might have some reccommendations for me. I'm open to going for more expensive models, but do keep in mind that so far I'm running it straight off my smartphone, so anything with high(er) impedance will necessitate also buying an amp.


As said earlier in my previous reply, you might want to look @ JCALLY EP-05 (but be aware they are quite big), K's LBB or LBW (very difficult to find now, I think, but they are some of the best earbuds I have and they are very comfortable!), Yincrow RW-777 (same as K's I don't think they're easy to find now...) or TMusic Beryllium.

If you're willing to EQ, just grab Faaeal Datura Pro, it's unbelievable how good they can sound when tuning is done right (aka @Sam L EQ!   ), you will hardly find anything better unless you are willing to shell out BIG money! (and I'm not even sure about that, never heard any TOTL earbuds...)

And welcome in the wonderful world of earbuds, where you can find and test real gems for very little money!


----------



## The3DCie

RikudouGoku said:


> The X6 is also different from the B40, but MUCH closer to it than the turandot at least. But yeah, it is epic, go get it if you dont have it.


Will do, thanks for recommendation!


----------



## furyossa (Jan 17, 2021)

FranQL said:


> Shozy BK seems very expensive to me, that is, as a reference for my budget, and after reading pages and pages of this thread, in my Ali basket: toneking to600, to400, dendroaspis,  BGVP DX5.. of your recommendations: Zen LL, I am not convinced, € 60. Quian39, these seem very cheap to me (€ 7). edifier, between € 8-14, never heard of them (speaker only) but for the price I can try. pk2 / do as I only find niceHCK


Skip BGVP DX5 believe me, you will be disappointed with the tuning. Much cheaper models sound better. DaturaPro has really good SQ with @Sam_L compensation files for EQ. HE150Pro is another good model worth mentioning. Also don't miss Yincrow RW-9 and X6


----------



## Alex.Grimm

furyossa said:


> Skip BGVP DX5 believe me the you will be disappointed with the tuning. Much cheaper models sound better. DaturaPro has really good SQ with @Sam_L compensation files for EQ. HE150Pro is another good model worth mentioning.
> Also don't miss Yincrow RW-9 and X6


He said that he was not comfortable with large shells. DaturaPro also have terrible tuning


----------



## FranQL

my mother, what madness! I have a major mess, but it is true that I am tired of the iems and over-ear headphones (with which I have never been comfortable), so I want a set of round headphones.


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> Skip BGVP DX5 believe me, you will be disappointed with the tuning. Much cheaper models sound better. DaturaPro has really good SQ with @Sam_L compensation files for EQ. HE150Pro is another good model worth mentioning. Also don't miss Yincrow RW-9 and X6


ok, discarded BGVP


----------



## FranQL

The3DCie said:


> Hi.
> 
> Just remember that in "earbuds land" you can easily find great sounding buds for as little as a few bucks, so Qian39 @ $7 doesn't necessarily means that it's crap!
> In fact there are models which sell for less which do sound really great!
> ...





The3DCie said:


> Hi.
> 
> Just remember that in "earbuds land" you can easily find great sounding buds for as little as a few bucks, so Qian39 @ $7 doesn't necessarily means that it's crap!
> In fact there are models which sell for less which do sound really great!
> ...




Thank you very much for the recommendations. I save all the products to read the reviews in advance. I know that here the price does not determine the quality of the product, we are also talking about low prices even for TOLT, which is what I like. But I also don't want to rack up headphones like I did in his crazy moment with IEM ...


----------



## furyossa

Alex.Grimm said:


> He said that he was not comfortable with large shells. DaturaPro also have terrible tuning


 DaturaPro use 14.8mm driver and I mention that he need to use @Sam_L compensation files. I already commented a couple of times how $hity is stock tuning but with proper EQ-ing $25 set become $100 set


----------



## Alex.Grimm

furyossa said:


> DaturaPro use 14.8mm driver and I mention that he need to use @Sam_L compensation files. I already commented a couple of times how $hity is stock tuning but with proper EQ-ing $25 set become $100 set


True audiophile doesn't use EQ)
Toneking Viridis with Xduoo link2 with bass boost on, also sound around 100$ lol


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> my mother, what madness! I have a major mess, but it is true that I am tired of the iems and over-ear headphones (with which I have never been comfortable), so I want a set of round headphones.


If you have soldering skills you can try some DIY drivers especially high impedance models with "exotic" coating


----------



## RikudouGoku

Alex.Grimm said:


> True audiophile doesn't use EQ)
> Toneking Viridis with Xduoo link2 with bass boost on, also sound around 100$ lol


 hardware bass boost IS eq...

If you allow yourself to use a function like that, eq should be avaliable as well.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

RikudouGoku said:


> hardware bass boost IS eq...
> 
> If you allow yourself to use a function like that, eq should be avaliable as well.


I do not allow, I set an example. I don't us EQ and boost. I like pure sound


----------



## furyossa (Jan 17, 2021)

Alex.Grimm said:


> True audiophile doesn't use EQ)
> Toneking Viridis with Xduoo link2 with bass boost on, also sound around 100$ lol


True audiophile? Yes, they use also extensive gear. And we talk about budget models (@FranQL said that Shozy BK is a little more expensive)
Now if we look at the price vs SQ (current price) and let say PC as main source
Toneking Viridis (76) + XDoo Link2 ($109)  vs DaturaPro ($25) + EquilizerAPO (free).
Hmmm... for $100 SQ which one has great value?


----------



## FranQL

I don't usually use eq, and if I do it is to try recommendations (foobar with mathaudio), but at the end of the day I always listen to the source directly or profitably, I have dap like xduoo x3ii, or sony mw105, tempotec V1, and dac like sonata hd pro, or 9038sg3. But I take into account the recommendations, yingrow rw777 I do not see the diameter, but I have found it. The x6 you have aroused my curiosity, just like the wooden TMusic


----------



## The3DCie

Alex.Grimm said:


> True audiophile doesn't use EQ)


Why would it be so?   
"True" audiophile (I personnaly don't consider myself as an audiophile, just someone who loves music and try listening with best gear -to my ears- as I can) aren't supposed to search for the best fidelity possible?
If that's the case, any way to enhance gear's capacities should be welcome, no?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Alex.Grimm said:


> I do not allow, I set an example. I don't us EQ and boost. I like pure sound


You will never get a pure sound, on any transducer. Because your source, tips/foams and cables (different resistance if you change from stock) will change it.


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> I don't usually use eq, and if I do it is to try recommendations (foobar with mathaudio), but at the end of the day I always listen to the source directly or profitably, I have dap like xduoo x3ii, or sony mw105, tempotec V1, and dac like sonata hd pro, or 9038sg3. But I take into account the recommendations, yingrow rw777 I do not see the diameter, but I have found it. The x6 you have aroused my curiosity, just like the wooden TMusic


Why didn't you mention it right away and spare us the trouble  Are you audiofile, maybe ?


----------



## povidlo

Thread heating up quickly, 🍿 🍿🍿 ready.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

povidlo said:


> Thread heating up quickly, 🍿 🍿🍿 ready.


I won't fire up burning asses, just going to sleep) Zzzz


----------



## The3DCie

FranQL said:


> I don't usually use eq, and if I do it is to try recommendations (foobar with mathaudio), but at the end of the day I always listen to the source directly or profitably, I have dap like xduoo x3ii, or sony mw105, tempotec V1, and dac like sonata hd pro, or 9038sg3. But I take into account the recommendations, yingrow rw777 I do not see the diameter, but I have found it. The x6 you have aroused my curiosity, just like the wooden TMusic


Frankly I really don't understand (other than usability, I don't have EQ on my iPod shuffle, for example...) why one wouldn't want to enhance his gear's capacities with EQ?
It's like riding a bike without ever changing gears, just because it's not "pure", that doesn't makes sense to me?   
If you ever buy Faaeal Datura pro, which I encourage you to do, you'll notice how drastically a gear can transform while using proper EQ, you should try and see by yourself!


----------



## furyossa

povidlo said:


> Thread heating up quickly, 🍿 🍿🍿 ready.


In this cold weather it is the only choice


----------



## FranQL

I have verified with eq how iem and complete headphones that sounded regular can sound good and some that sound good can sound better with eq (with measurements from people who know, if I do it, everything always sounds worse). I mean if I don't use eq, it is for simple convenience.


----------



## The3DCie

FranQL said:


> I have verified with eq how iem and complete headphones that sounded regular can sound good and some that sound good can sound better with eq (with measurements from people who know, if I do it, everything always sounds worse). I mean if I don't use eq, it is for simple convenience.


Do as I do, then, let masters (@Sam L of course!) mastering the technique and just use their knowledge and files!


----------



## RikudouGoku

FranQL said:


> I have verified with eq how iem and complete headphones that sounded regular can sound good and some that sound good can sound better with eq (with measurements from people who know, if I do it, everything always sounds worse). I mean if I don't use eq, it is for simple convenience.


If you dont know how to eq, it is kinda obvious it wont be good. But used well, you cant tell the difference...


----------



## furyossa

The3DCie said:


> Frankly I really don't understand (other than usability, I don't have EQ on my iPod shuffle, for example...) why one wouldn't want to enhance his gear's capacities with EQ?
> It's like riding a bike without ever changing gears, just because it's not "pure", that doesn't makes sense to me?
> If you ever buy Faaeal Datura pro, which I encourage you to do, you'll notice how drastically a gear can transform while using proper EQ, you should try and see by yourself!


I want to mention great potential of Aluminum coating driver. Not to be underestimated at all 


FranQL said:


> He comprobado con eq cómo iem y unos auriculares completos que sonaban regulares pueden sonar bien y algunos que suenan bien pueden sonar mejor con eq (con medidas de gente que sabe, si lo hago, todo siempre suena peor). Quiero decir, si no uso eq, es por simple conveniencia.


Use Google Translate. It's similar as EQ


----------



## FranQL

it was not my intention to open a discussion for or against eq ... but if I know your opinion of headphones that I have no idea.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> If you dont know how to eq, it is kinda obvious it wont be good. But used well, you cant tell the difference...


I don't like to depend on EQ but if a model has potential and can sound better than I don't see a reason why I wouldn't try it. Also, @Sam_L compensation files are based on real measurement and many times tested Target curve for earbuds


----------



## furyossa (Jan 17, 2021)

FranQL said:


> it was not my intention to open a discussion for or against eq ... but if I know your opinion of headphones that I have no idea.


You ask the questions we answer. That's the deal. 
So you have to provide all the necessary information:
- gear that you mostly use (source, DAC, AMP etc.)
- price limit for the earbuds
- type of sound that you're looking for
- low or high impedance model
- whether you use EQ or not
- and most importantly: are you an audiophile or not?  
BTW thank you all for the "*HOT*" discussion.   
Now I can turn off the heating in the apartment


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> You ask the questions we answer. That's the deal.
> So you have to provide all the necessary information.
> BTW thank you all for the "*HOT*" discussion.
> Now I can turn off the heating in the apartment


right, I have a good list of shoots, now I have to decide.


----------



## FranQL

and also learn English ....


----------



## furyossa (Jan 17, 2021)

FranQL said:


> right, I have a good list of shoots, now I have to decide.


All right, the "case" is closed. 
You have to understand that each of us has a personal favorite pair of gear and the way he likes to use them, so it's a little hard to be unbiased.
But when the dust comes down then the one who asks always gets the clear answer. But it's up to you to decide anyway.


----------



## mrfashion

I do find EQ kinda frustrating.. like it weighs over me a bit.
Using headphones as an example... to my ears, my HD599's and HD560s' sound nigh-on identical after using Oratory1990's EQ settings. This makes the HD599's incredible value when seen on sale.

However that's only useful when running from a source which allows parametric EQ control. When I want to run off my PS5 / Series X controllers... all of a sudden stock tuning really matters (in this particular example, I find the HD560s' far superior).

Which brings me to where I am now. Looking for a pair of earbuds with the best stock tuning for this usage... which I can perhaps "tune-up" a little via EQ when listening from other sources (like my Qudelix 5K).

This is proving quite difficult.

Currently considering the:

-Fiio EM5, 
-Shozy BK; and
-Moondrop Chaconne (Gen 2)

I also have some Yincrow X6 and RW-9's on order from Aliexpress, which should arrive sometime within the next 1- 9 months. (*sigh*)
But from what I've read so far, if you're usage always allows EQ, the FAAEAL Datura Pro's are hard to beat value-wise.


----------



## furyossa

mrfashion said:


> I do find EQ kinda frustrating.. like it weighs over me a bit.
> Using headphones as an example... to my ears, my HD599's and HD560s' sound nigh-on identical after using Oratory1990's EQ settings. This makes the HD599's incredible value when seen on sale.
> 
> However that's only useful when running from a source which allows parametric EQ control. When I want to run off my PS5 / Series X controllers... all of a sudden stock tuning really matters (in this particular example, I find the HD560s' far superior).
> ...


Nicely said.   
This is my earlier comment on all of that


furyossa said:


> Yup. I completely agree. It is very important that the stock tuning is good, because it is not a solution to rely constantly on EQ correction. Also, it's not a solution to disassemble the buds and do mods to regulate some shortcomings, because there is a risk that something will go wrong in the process. This applies to ToTl buds.
> When it comes to budget models, there's a different story. Because I like to experiment and try different things, for me personally these cheaper models have great value.
> This confirms the fact that there is more talk about these models, here on the forum, than about "ToTL" buds.





mrfashion said:


> But from what I've read so far, if you're usage always allows EQ, the FAAEAL Datura Pro's are hard to beat value-wise.


True. This buds have all the positive characteristics of a high-end model: build quality, beautiful design, great cable, powerful driver with huge potential.
The only drawback is tuning (probably the guy who tuned them was drunk)  Fortunately, all this can be corrected in a free and easy way.
I don't want to compare this model with the models you listed, that's not the point. Some people on this forum are fans of music and the hobby in general, 
but not everyone has the opportunity to purchase expensive models. DaturaPro is a model that provides a similar experience as expensive models but at a very affordable price and in my opinion that is the main value here.
Anyway very nice list you have there. Fiio EM5 is winner without doubt. Fiio did his best to tune the Beryllium coated driver. 
Moondrop has more prestige look but the question is whether it sounds better than EM5. Do you perhaps know what the difference is between Gen1 and Gen2?


----------



## jogawag

furyossa said:


> Do you perhaps know what the difference is between Gen1 and Gen2?


My impression of Moondrop Chaconne (Gen 2) is that it is a higher resolution version of Moondrop Liebesleid (Gen 1), with top class resolution and treble delicacy as earbuds, and each tone is really clear and beautiful.
However, I feel the sound stage of Liebesleid is wider than Chaconne.


----------



## 40760

All these talk is making me want a pair of EM5 for 2021...


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 18, 2021)

mrfashion said:


> Which brings me to where I am now. Looking for a pair of earbuds with the best stock tuning for this usage... which I can perhaps "tune-up" a little via EQ when listening from other sources (like my Qudelix 5K).
> 
> This is proving quite difficult.


I believe that both @furyossa @jogawag and many others would agree with me that what also proves difficult in finding that perfect earbud is "the fit". Earbuds are prone to fitting issues due to mostly ear size but also anatomical variances between individuals. The use of foams to improve "the fit" can and does change the sound signature... sometimes drastically for better or worse and thus needs to be seriously factored in as accordingly. Unfortunately, it usually comes down to "trial and error" with earbuds and the simple fact of individual preference, which varies immensely, as @furyossa has rightly stressed over and over again in this thread.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Jan 18, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Fiio EM5 is winner without doubt. Fiio did his best to tune the Beryllium coated driver.
> Moondrop has more prestige look but the question is whether it sounds better than EM5. Do you perhaps know what the difference is between Gen1 and Gen2?


I personally did not listen to the EM5. But in our local group, there is a person who bought Fiio EM5 and was very disappointed with the sound.  He did not recommend them to anyone.

Based on the Earbuds Ranking 2020/07/22更新, the Moondrop bypasses the Fiio EM5 in sound level:
1. Ksearphone Bell Ti 120Ω
2. Moondrop CHACONNE
3. Ksearphone Bell Tі Onmyoji 30Ω
4. Moondrop Liebesleid
5. Dez No.7 New
6. DQSM Turandot　
7. Fiio EM5

But this ranking does not have all the earbuds in stock, I think this list could be Ksearphone Bell-Blue and Simphonio Dragon 3


----------



## The3DCie

mrfashion said:


> I do find EQ kinda frustrating.. like it weighs over me a bit.
> ...
> However that's only useful when running from a source which allows parametric EQ control. When I want to run off my PS5 / Series X controllers... all of a sudden stock tuning really matters (in this particular example, I find the HD560s' far superior).


I agree with you that good tuning OOTB is a given, as some situations don't permit the use of an EQ. (in my case, I can't listen to Faaeal Datura Pro on my iPod shuffle, which doesn't have an EQ)

But what I fail to understand is why someone who has the choice to make his pair of earbuds sound great (again, Datura Pro comes to mind immediately! Sorry, I probably sound like a Faaeal rep. so I'll stop talking about them!...) wouldn't go that way?
If you can have "like TOTL" sound for $25 with a bit of EQ, why on earth wouldn't you try?   
(just to clarify, I'm not talking about you in particular, even if I quoted some part of your post, but generally speaking...  )


----------



## The3DCie

WoodyLuvr said:


> I believe that both @furyossa @jogawag and many others would agree with me that what also proves difficult in finding that perfect earbud is "the fit". Earbuds are prone to fitting issues due to mostly ear size but also anatomical variances between individuals. The use of foams to improve "the fit" can and does change the sound signature... sometimes drastically for better or worse and thus needs to be seriously factored in as accordingly. Unfortunately, it usually comes down to "trial and error" with earbuds and the simple fact of individual preference, which varies immensely, as @furyossa has rightly stressed over and over again in this thread.


I can't agree more, Smabat's lineup, for example, even if it sounds great and detailed, is a "No Go" for me, due to problems with fit...


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> My impression of Moondrop Chaconne (Gen 2) is that it is a higher resolution version of Moondrop Liebesleid (Gen 1), with top class resolution and treble delicacy as earbuds, and each tone is really clear and beautiful.
> However, I feel the sound stage of Liebesleid is wider than Chaconne.


Thanks for the info. I hope that one day they will be able to equalize the sound quality of their buds with their IEMs since they have already achieved that with the price.
After all they are a TOP class company. 
I really appreciate good resolution and sound clarity, but soundstage is one of the things that fascinates me the most when it comes to buds. 
Your comment proves the fact that there are not perfect buds


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> I believe that both @furyossa @jogawag and many others would agree with me that what also proves difficult in finding that perfect earbud is "the fit". Earbuds are prone to fitting issues due to mostly ear size but also anatomical variances between individuals. The use of foams to improve "the fit" can and does change the sound signature... sometimes drastically for better or worse and thus needs to be seriously factored in as accordingly. Unfortunately, it usually comes down to "trial and error" with earbuds and the simple fact of individual preference, which varies immensely, as @furyossa has rightly stressed over and over again in this thread.


Yup I agree 100%. Ear foams, ear hooks, silicone rings etc. are just aids to achieve better fit and sealing. The same goes for EQ when it comes to sound correction.
But previous comments confirm that this is more of a negative than a positive thing.
Many companies neglect earbud ergonomics which is a very important factor and goes hand in hand with sound quality.
The formula is very simple: nice look + good ergonomics = excellent design


----------



## furyossa

The3DCie said:


> If you can have "like TOTL" sound for $25 with a bit of EQ, why on earth wouldn't you try?
> (just to clarify, I'm not talking about you in particular, even if I quoted some part of your post, but generally speaking... )








The3DCie said:


> I can't agree more, Smabat's lineup, for example, even if it sounds great and detailed, is a "No Go" for me, due to problems with fit...


The same goes for me. I really like the modular design of the M2 Pro series, and it's very practical


----------



## jant71

povidlo said:


> I am still burning mine in...FML.
> 
> Interesting that you like them worn over ear. Not for me. Best fit has been cable down, using combo of a silicone ring and two full foamies on each bud.





WoodyLuvr said:


> With kind patience and sound expertise from @ClieOS I narrowed my TOTL Ear Bud list down to the Rose Technics Maria II; Simphonio Dragon 3; and the **** Turandot. Ended up ordering a pair of ***** Turandot 2.5mm Balanced* earbuds. Now the wait begins .



Was looking at the Maria II. Two big questions would be the over ear fit cause I would use a BT cable which is over ear and wind noise with that design. Never had that design and use buds outside more than in. Looks like the outer part would be too far out and have a wind noise problem. Anybody can comment on the wind thing?


----------



## The3DCie

furyossa said:


>


Ha ha, scary how heated discussions can lead to psychopath behavior!!    


furyossa said:


> The same goes for me. I really like the modular design of the M2 Pro series, and it's very practical


Yeah, I bought M2 Pro for that, as well as hoping they would fit me better, as they are bigger than M1 Pro (which were too small to stay in place in my ears, unfortunately, yet they had a definitive premium sound when the fit was perfect, a shame, really...  ), but it was the same, no way of getting stable fit with them either, so for sale they go!... 

Great if you have a good fit with them, although, to be honest, I quite preferred M1 Pro sound to M2 Pro.


----------



## furyossa

Alex.Grimm said:


> I personally did not listen to the EM5. But in our local group, there is a person who bought Fiio EM5 and was very disappointed with the sound.  He did not recommend them to anyone.
> 
> Based on the Earbuds Ranking 2020/07/22更新, the Moondrop bypasses the Fiio EM5 in sound level:
> 1. Ksearphone Bell Ti 120Ω
> ...


Hmmm… that's the first. I mostly came across positive reviews, maybe it was an initial impression only.🤔
K's Bell Ti 120Ω  is really beautiful pair of buds. I love their simplistic design
After reading these reviews, I still haven't changed my mind about them


jogawag said:


> I found the following review. Please display them on Chorome browser.:
> http://headphonemetal.ldblog.jp/archives/52427612.html
> http://headphonemetal.ldblog.jp/archives/52427635.html
> http://headphonemetal.ldblog.jp/archives/52389687.html


----------



## furyossa

The3DCie said:


> Ha ha, scary how heated discussions can lead to psychopath behavior!!
> 
> Yeah, I bought M2 Pro for that, as well as hoping they would fit me better, as they are bigger than M1 Pro (which were too small to stay in place in my ears, unfortunately, yet they had a definitive premium sound when the fit was perfect, a shame, really...  ), but it was the same, no way of getting stable fit with them either, so for sale they go!...
> 
> Great if you have a good fit with them, although, to be honest, I quite preferred M1 Pro sound to M2 Pro.


It’s very weird that they have a bad fit even though I know you prefer an over-ear style of wearing earphones.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but looking at the design of the Smabat buds, it seems to me that the rear part of shell with its weight, plus the weight of the mmcx housing 
pulls the bugs out of the ear?
M2 Pro uses 15.4mm drivers which is good because there are a number of drivers that can be tried especially DIY drivers 
It is a pity that we do not have a greater variety for 14.8 mm,14.2 mm and 13.5 mm drivers


----------



## uneri (Jun 24, 2021)

‎


----------



## furyossa

uneri said:


> I have both the Turandot & Yincrow RW-2000, and I highly recommend them as both have a fairly balanced stock sound that can be easily enjoyed without any EQ.
> 
> The RW-2000 is a little more well extended in the bass and treble region than the Turandot, while the latter has thicker sounding mids.
> Both have excellent resolution, are non-fatiguing sounding and can be easily driven.
> ...


Welcome to the forum. Thanks for sharing this with us 
BTW... Can you describe the soundstage and imaging of these two pairs?


----------



## Braekfast

The3DCie said:


> As said earlier in my previous reply, you might want to look @ JCALLY EP-05 (but be aware they are quite big), K's LBB or LBW (very difficult to find now, I think, but they are some of the best earbuds I have and they are very comfortable!), Yincrow RW-777 (same as K's I don't think they're easy to find now...) or TMusic Beryllium.
> 
> If you're willing to EQ, just grab Faaeal Datura Pro, it's unbelievable how good they can sound when tuning is done right (aka @Sam L EQ!   ), you will hardly find anything better unless you are willing to shell out BIG money! (and I'm not even sure about that, never heard any TOTL earbuds...)
> 
> And welcome in the wonderful world of earbuds, where you can find and test real gems for very little money!


Thanks for the reccommendations. The EP-05 and TMusic Beryllium I've found. Though the Tmusic seems to come in both a black plastic and sort of wood-like housing, any difference between the two except for looks?
I can't seem to find the K's or Yincrow right away. 

I'm willing to try EQ, but I've never done so before. I'm assuming that's via the wavelet app? 

After making my post last night, I decided to go through all my earbuds again for funsies. Coming to the Kbear Marvel (I said Stellar before, but I was mistaken. All these names are getting confusing) I was like "Wait a sec, I don't remember this thing sounding so good?". Quite enjoyed it actually. The B40 still has a better high end and vocals to me, but the Kbear definitely has the edge when it comes to lows and mids. Taking a track like Starlight Brigade from TWRP the Kbear really lets you feel those synth sounds and the bass, but Dan's voice just doesn't shine through and falls kinda flat. The B40 meanwhile let's Dan's voice really shine when he holds those higher notes, but you lose all the warmth from the synths.

Now if I could just Yu-gi-oh fusion card the best parts of the B40 and the Kbear together


----------



## daanbr78

I have a Grado RS2. And as much as I want to love this headphone, I seem to can’t. The sound is not great enough for me to endure the uncomfort over my ears. My ears can’t take onear and overear headphones. My ears get hot, my head gets hot and I feel enclosed.



Inear monitors I also can’t stand. I hate the vacuum and hearing myself breath. So I see myself grabbing my Apple Airpods 2 (the wireless ones). They actually do not sound all that bad. But I want more. Better. More ‘audiophile’ soundstage, detail etc.



So looking for earbuds that are amazing. My selfemposed budget is till euro 200.



I can’t seem to find any. It’s a jungle out there. Lots of endless reviews on earbuds that don’t seem to be available anywhere anymore.... Or reading review on the Apple Airpods 2 hoping for better alternatives it usually only states “there are better earbuds available for the price” but no mention of which.....

They need to be able to be driven by an iPhone as this is my primary on the go, in the bed, on the sofa device. No need to be wireless



Any tips? More than welcome. Thanks in advance!!


----------



## RikudouGoku

Braekfast said:


> Thanks for the reccommendations. The EP-05 and TMusic Beryllium I've found. Though the Tmusic seems to come in both a black plastic and sort of wood-like housing, any difference between the two except for looks?
> I can't seem to find the K's or Yincrow right away.
> 
> I'm willing to try EQ, but I've never done so before. I'm assuming that's via the wavelet app?
> ...


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32807226027.html

If you are on android and using local files, you can use the neutron player or UAPP for their PEQ.


----------



## baskingshark

Braekfast said:


> Thanks for the reccommendations. The EP-05 and TMusic Beryllium I've found. Though the Tmusic seems to come in both a black plastic and sort of wood-like housing, any difference between the two except for looks?
> I can't seem to find the K's or Yincrow right away.
> 
> I'm willing to try EQ, but I've never done so before. I'm assuming that's via the wavelet app?
> ...



I read in audio forums that KBEAR really initially called their earbud the "Marvel" but they were issued some warning from Marvel (the comic) for copyright, so they had to rename it to "Stellar". 

As for the TMusic earbud, do be aware of some QC issues reported, and a fake delivery (for my case), so try to buy it with a credit card or something in case u get scammed (then at least u can file a dispute or something). But seems a lot of folks here got their set delivered and like it. Anyways, wood and plastic housing will likely affect the sound, due to resonance of shell materials and different shapes (Even though drivers are the same).


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> Anyways, wood and plastic housing will likely affect the sound, due to resonance of shell materials and different shapes (Even though drivers are the same).


Yup, wood has "pleasant" resonance and plastic "horrible"  Of course, again, everything depends on the type, ie the quality of these materials


----------



## furyossa

Braekfast said:


> I'm willing to try EQ, but I've never done so before. I'm assuming that's via the wavelet app?


For Android 9 and up wavelet app is the right choice, and for Android 8 and below U can use RE Equalizer
Also, for local files @RikudouGoku already suggested two most powerful player apps and I will add also:
- Onkyo HF Player (Precision "free curve" EQ) comercial app
- Hiby App (MSEB tuner) free app
- FiiO Music free app


----------



## furyossa (Jan 18, 2021)

daanbr78 said:


> ...
> But I want more. Better. More ‘audiophile’ soundstage, detail etc.
> ...
> They need to be able to be driven by an iPhone as this is my primary on the go, in the bed, on the sofa device. No need to be wireless
> ..


Hmmm... first, you need to consider buying a DAC / AMP device because the iPhone or any other phone (except LG and Sony) will not be able to provide you with the 'audiophile’ experience no matter what earphones you use. Then read the last 30-ish pages on this forum. There are already a lot of recommendations, so you don't have to spend money on new AirPods 2 which in my opinion have a really exaggerated price


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Hmmm... first, you need to consider buying a DAC / AMP device because the iPhone or any other phone (except LG and Sony) will not be able to provide you with the 'audiophile’ experience no matter what earphones you use. Then read the last 30-ish pages on this forum. There are already a lot of recommendations, so you don't have to spend money on new AirPods 2 which in my opinion have a really exaggerated price


yeah, a better dac/amp will be very useful. For convenience, stuff like the Fiio BTR5 and the qudelix 5k are some good recs for bluetooth dac/amps. You can also consider a portable dac/amp like the Ifi Hip-dac or perhaps just a sonata hd pro dongle.

For buds I would rec:

Yincrow X6
NiceHCK MX500
NiceHCK ME80


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> yeah, a better dac/amp will be very useful. For convenience, stuff like the Fiio BTR5 and the qudelix 5k are some good recs for bluetooth dac/amps. You can also consider a portable dac/amp like the Ifi Hip-dac or perhaps just a sonata hd pro dongle.
> 
> For buds I would rec:
> 
> ...


Around $100 for BT or Portable/dongle DAC/AMP, it pays to spend.
Most of them have volume and playback control which is bonus, also MQA support.
Ok, you suggested MX500 type of buds. This will be the list for non-mx500
- Smabat lineup
- Toneking lineup
- Astrotec lineup
- K's Bell lineup
- Moondrop lineup
- OURART lineup
- Yincrow RW lineup
- ShoonTH lineup
- HIFI BOY Dream
- HE150 Pro
- TY HI-Z F300M


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Around $100 for BT or Portable/dongle DAC/AMP, it pays to spend.
> Most of them have volume and playback control which is bonus, also MQA support.
> Ok, you suggested MX500 type of buds. This will be the list for non-mx500
> - Smabat lineup
> ...


Those are just my personal top 3 recs, that they are all mx500 is a coincidence lol.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Those are just my personal top 3 recs, that they are all mx500 is a coincidence lol.


I noticed that first, it's definitely a great choice.  
I just listed a random  models in case anyone is interested in a different solution. Of course many of these models can also be worn over-ears so those who like IEMs will have no problem with these earbuds


----------



## daanbr78

Thanks so far!

for @living room I have FX-Audio DAC X6 (with correct OPA2134 chip — it had a fake one like most seem to have).
I ordered a Wincrow x6 and a Nicechk MX500.

I’ll keep following this thread with much interest.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 18, 2021)

daanbr78 said:


> Thanks so far!
> 
> for @living room I have FX-Audio DAC X6 (with correct OPA2134 chip — it had a fake one like most seem to have).
> I ordered a Wincrow x6 and a Nicechk MX500.
> ...


Do allow your ears and your brain an "adjustment" period of a few days to a week... earbuds, although very similar to full-size open-back headphones, will/may sound different to you. Do try various combinations, with and without foams, to see which fit and sound signature is best for that particular bud you are using. Best to avoid all EQ and DSP during this introductory period so as to correctly ascertain what you are hearing. Also, it is highly recommended that you also listen at a slightly reduced volume during this initial period as sometimes people tend to crank up the volume, dangerously so, as earbuds do not isolate well and it will take your ears sometime to get use to that and adjust accordingly... meaning after a week or so you will find it easier to listen at lower volume levels.


----------



## daanbr78

@WoodyLuvr 🙏


----------



## The3DCie

Braekfast said:


> Thanks for the reccommendations. The EP-05 and TMusic Beryllium I've found. Though the Tmusic seems to come in both a black plastic and sort of wood-like housing, any difference between the two except for looks?
> I can't seem to find the K's or Yincrow right away.
> 
> I'm willing to try EQ, but I've never done so before. I'm assuming that's via the wavelet app?
> ...


You're welcome, I see that you've had a fair bit of recommendations by fellow earbuds experts in the meantime, in advance sorry for your wallet with all this choice to go through!!  
Fortunately enough, earbuds are on the cheaper side (compared to full-size headphones or IEMs), even for TOTL buds, which would be considered lower mid-Fi in term of price.  

As for Yincrow, you can find them here : https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/32902306950.html  (only 2 left according to the page, hurry up if you want one!), that's where I got mine from.
K's LBB (or LBW) can be found here : https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/32902306950.html (again, only 2 LBW -with the white cable- and 3 LBB -black cable with mic-, I have LBW, so the white cable one...), I got mine from this seller too, a well recognized shop on Head-Fi.
TMusic I got from here : https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005001589119116.html and yes I got the wooden version (real wood btw, not wood-like or whatever!  ) and got no problem with them, though @baskingshark did get a fake tracking number and never got his set and some other have mentioned QC problems, so be aware of that! I have only praises to make about them, though. 
JCALLY EP-05 : https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005001547137732.html Don't buy them from Smabat official store, where they are almost double the price! I've got mine from this seller and delivery was quick, I'm waiting for the rest of JCALLY lineup from the same seller, should have them next week.  

As for EQ I'm using Neutron Player or Onkyo HF Player on my iPhone and they are really good with a free curve EQ, very versatile.


----------



## The3DCie

furyossa said:


> It’s very weird that they have a bad fit even though I know you prefer an over-ear style of wearing earphones.
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but looking at the design of the Smabat buds, it seems to me that the rear part of shell with its weight, plus the weight of the mmcx housing
> pulls the bugs out of the ear?
> M2 Pro uses 15.4mm drivers which is good because there are a number of drivers that can be tried especially DIY drivers
> It is a pity that we do not have a greater variety for 14.8 mm,14.2 mm and 13.5 mm drivers


Yeah, for whatever reason, they keep coming out of my ears, they don't want to stay in place, very frustrating, i even tried different positions (and the "normal" one, ti be sure, as JCALLY EP-05 sounds good that way for me) to no available, so I decided to give up on Smabat, I have so much great other gears to listen to that it's not worth me losing time on this.


----------



## Braekfast

Thanks for all the reccommendations guys. My shopping list of possible new buds is growing, uh, concerningly large 

Does anyone have an opinion on the Openheart earbuds? I know their headphone got some good reviews a while back, but I don't think I've seen much said about their two earbud models.

And is a amp/dac going to have much influence for earbuds of 16/32ohm? I did order a sonata hd pro a while ago since it had good reviews and is within my comfortable pricerange, but it arrived defective and just straight up didn't work 😥. Got a refund though by disputing, so that's nice.




The3DCie said:


> You're welcome, I see that you've had a fair bit of recommendations by fellow earbuds experts in the meantime, in advance sorry for your wallet with all this choice to go through!!
> Fortunately enough, earbuds are on the cheaper side (compared to full-size headphones or IEMs), even for TOTL buds, which would be considered lower mid-Fi in term of price.
> 
> As for Yincrow, you can find them here : https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/32902306950.html  (only 2 left according to the page, hurry up if you want one!), that's where I got mine from.
> ...



Thanks for the links! Not sure how I managed to miss those on aliexpress. Now I gotta go through all of these options and figure out which I want . Ideally I'd get something like my HD555 but with just an extra scoop of low end. Of course no earbud can be the same as big open headphones, but it's the pair I've been wearing every day for a decade now, so I automatically compare everything to them.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 18, 2021)

furyossa said:


> For Android 9 and up wavelet app is the right choice, and for Android 8 and below U can use RE Equalizer
> Also, for local files @RikudouGoku already suggested two most powerful player apps and I will add also:
> - Onkyo HF Player (Precision "free curve" EQ) comercial app
> - Hiby App (MSEB tuner) free app
> - FiiO Music free app


I don't know what iOS offers in terms of EQ solution, but for Windows OS there are several interesting options.
Probably one of the best free EQ for Win is EquilizerAPO + Peace (GUI). It offers a number of options like GraphicEQ, ParametricEQ, VSTpluging (proffesional EQ plugins) etc.
When it comes to commercial solutions, which in addition to EQ have several additional functions, I would single out 2.
NOTE: to be clear, this is not a recommendation for audiophiles   For gaming and movie lovers, sure.
I don't know if anyone remembers the famous plugin DFX Audio Enhancer for good old Winamp. This plugin has evolved into FX Sound and now we have 2nd edition.
The GUI looks really nice , 10 or 20 bands EQ and some additional boosters : Fidelity, Ambience, 2D surroundm, Dynamic Boost and Bass. For now only Win version.






Another similar program is Boom3D. Works good on Win10 and there is also a version for Mac users and smartphone app


----------



## The3DCie

daanbr78 said:


> I have a Grado RS2. And as much as I want to love this headphone, I seem to can’t. The sound is not great enough for me to endure the uncomfort over my ears. My ears can’t take onear and overear headphones. My ears get hot, my head gets hot and I feel enclosed.
> 
> In ear monitors I also can’t stand. I hate the vacuum and hearing myself breath. So I see myself grabbing my Apple Airpods 2 (the wireless ones). They actually do not sound all that bad. But I want more. Better. More ‘audiophile’ soundstage, detail etc.
> 
> ...


As an iPhone XS owner I'll have a dissonant voice here to say that all earbuds I've tried as of yet sound really good out of Apple's adapter.   
I have compared with Hiby R2, which has more power than my iPhone and I don't find a great difference, if any at all, between the two, that's why I'm selling my Hiby because I'm to used to a "real" GUI and good tactile feedback...

Ok, Hiby R2 isn't a power monster so perhaps are there any (really expensive) DAP which will show a greater difference, but that has been my experience so far so I thought I would share it.
Do notice, though, that I'm choosing my buds accordingly and I avoid 200-600 ohms earbuds for that reason, fearing that my iPhone's adapter won't be able to drive them to their full potential...

In that case I've found that, weirdly, my iPod shuffle seems to output much more power than my iPhone! My full-size can is much more lively with iPod shuffle than it is with my iPhone, go figure!...  

Otherwise I do think that a "simple" Bluetooth adapter, like Fiio BTR3K, Qudelix 5K or Shanling UP2/UP4 can be a good thing, you keep your iPhone as a DAP and you have much more power to drive your gears!  
Even my little Fiio uBTR is really great with them all.  

As for EarPods (or AirPods in your case), they are much better than the general consensus about them would like you to believe, and they come free (well, they came, as Apple has again surpassed itself in removing those from their new iPhone lineup...  ) of charge! They have great bass and are on the warm side, they just lack details and are a bit fuzzy about placement but in exchange they have a WIDE soundstage! They don't sound veiled at all, even if they are really on the warmer side of tuning.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 18, 2021)

*@The3DCie*  A many audiophile has/have had great success in achieving listening pleasure via an Apple USB DAC dongle, iPod, and even iPhone


----------



## The3DCie

furyossa said:


> I don't know what iOS offers in terms of EQ solution, but for Windows OS there are several interesting options.


As said in my earlier post, you have Neutron Player and Onkyo HF Player on iOS, with free curve EQ, really good!   


furyossa said:


> 3787995[/ATTACH]


Yeah, Boom 3D also available on iOS, great if you want to try different ambiances, although we are far from what audiophiles would consider acceptable, given all the DSP involved here!...  

Another (bad) thing is that it's rental based and it can cost quite a few bucks if you want to use it extensively...


----------



## The3DCie

WoodyLuvr said:


> A many audiophile has/have had great success in achieving listening pleasure via an Apple USB DAC dongle, iPod, and even iPhone


You are preaching to a convinced guy, my friend!


----------



## The3DCie

furyossa said:


> Around $100 for BT or Portable/dongle DAC/AMP, it pays to spend.
> Most of them have volume and playback control which is bonus, also MQA support.
> Ok, you suggested MX500 type of buds. This will be the list for non-mx500
> - Smabat lineup
> ...


Now that's a list to keep anyone occupied for a few years!!


----------



## furyossa (Jan 19, 2021)

Braekfast said:


> Thanks for all the reccommendations guys. My shopping list of possible new buds is growing, uh, concerningly large
> 
> Does anyone have an opinion on the Openheart earbuds? I know their headphone got some good reviews a while back, but I don't think I've seen much said about their two earbud models.
> 
> ...


Yes. If you use LG V or G series phone QuadDac will not work for low impedance buds (below 50ohms). If you listen FLAC files (above CD quality) then yes.
On the PC or laptop the integrated sound card is very $hity. In both cases (PC or phone) without DAC/AMP you will get enough power to drive 16/32ohm earbuds but don't expect better sound quality

Edit: About LG phone : High Impedance mode or "Auto Gain" mode will activate only if impedance of the buds exceeds 50ohms


----------



## furyossa

The3DCie said:


> Now that's a list to keep anyone occupied for a few years!!


One step at a time or in this case one lineup at the year...or maybe two


----------



## furyossa

The3DCie said:


> Another (bad) thing is that it's rental based and it can cost quite a few bucks if you want to use it extensively...


For Windows, Boom3D have lifetime license around $7 (75% discount)
For android i'm not sure.
FxSound 2 is subscription based


----------



## Braekfast

furyossa said:


> If you listen FLAC files (above CD quality) then yes.


I mostly listen to spotify these days, to be honest. After losing my library due to hard drive failure quite a while ago, the convenience is just nice. 
Would you say EQ'ing via Sam L's profiles is a good first step before I consider getting an amp/dac?

Also, I noticed that in your previous post the bluetooth devices your reccommended tend to hover around 100 dollar (which translates into around 120 euro, unfortunately). Are lower prices options also worth considering? I'm thinking of stuff like the Fiio uBTR around 30 euro and that apple dongle around 10. Those are the only two I know of though, I might be missing other great options. I did order a sonata hd pro as I mentioned, but it arrived defective so I never got to use it.


----------



## daanbr78

Do you have a recommendation for a relatively good lightning-port DAC that is small, something like the image below. And that is a significant upgrade to the iPhone internal DAC?






furyossa said:


> Yes. If you use LG V or G series phone QuadDac will not work for low impedance buds (below 50ohms). If you listen FLAC files (above CD quality) then yes.
> On the PC or laptop the integrated sound card is very $hity. In both cases (PC or phone) without DAC/AMP you will get enough power to drive 16/32ohm earbuds but don't expect better sound quality


----------



## RikudouGoku

daanbr78 said:


> Do you have a recommendation for a relatively good lightning-port DAC that is small, something like the image below. And that is a significant upgrade to the iPhone internal DAC?


Tempotec sonata hd pro


----------



## Sam L

The3DCie said:


> And they are VERY far in prices as well!
> 
> I didn't ear Yincrow X6, only that they really seem to sound great, might try them!


the x6 are excellent buds and are well-tuned stock. but honestly, they don't come near the compensated datura pro. However, I'd recommend them for your use case (iPod shuffle)


----------



## Sam L

furyossa said:


> I want to mention great potential of Aluminum coating driver. Not to be underestimated at all
> 
> Use Google Translate. It's similar as EQ


LOL. made me laugh while reading this!


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> LOL. made me laugh while reading this!


We had a very heated discussion yesterday. We overheated this forum in a short period of time


----------



## assassin10000

daanbr78 said:


> Do you have a recommendation for a relatively good lightning-port DAC that is small, something like the image below. And that is a significant upgrade to the iPhone internal DAC?



Small? DD HiFi TC35i.

I use a TC35B as its the same but with usb-c.


----------



## Sam L

mrfashion said:


> I do find EQ kinda frustrating.. like it weighs over me a bit.
> Using headphones as an example... to my ears, my HD599's and HD560s' sound nigh-on identical after using Oratory1990's EQ settings. This makes the HD599's incredible value when seen on sale.
> 
> However that's only useful when running from a source which allows parametric EQ control. When I want to run off my PS5 / Series X controllers... all of a sudden stock tuning really matters (in this particular example, I find the HD560s' far superior).
> ...


Ok, I've just read through 6 or 7 pages, trying to catch up on posts in this thread before I got to your post. I'm going to respond because you've ordered some awesome buds with good stock tuning (rw9 and x6), and you're also considering higher tier buds, like the EM5 (which I own and have listened to extensively (since release) after burning them in for a full 200 hours, per @ClieOS recommendation.)

I'm going to weigh in here with my opinion regarding EQ and also try to bring some clarity as to what my approach is with earbuds.

I realize historically "audiophiles" disdain EQ'ing their audio equipment, especially at the termination of their audio chain. To @RikudouGoku's point, there are a number of things "audiophiles" utilize that are fundamentally "eq'ing" their sound -- from bass boost, to installing acoustic foam in their listening rooms, to spending tons of money on cables and tube amps. All of these things add coloration to the sound in a manner that is specific to the "audiophile's" listening tastes. They are equalizing the sound to an expectation in their mind. That said, there are the few "purists," like @Alex.Grimm, do whatever it takes to maintain a level of purity through out their entire chain. This is hard to do and requires a lot of money to pull off well. I was this sort of "purist" years ago but gave up quickly since the amount of money it would take to match my ears with the expectations of playing in symphony orchestras for 10+ years would have required around $150k in equipment and retrofitting my room.

*So let's be clear, most "audiophiles" do not have a problem with the fundamental concept of EQ -- they have issues with software-based EQ.*

And I get it, to the mind of the "purist" software alterations to sound is more troubling than hardware influences to sound. You'll never hear me argue that software eq is the better approach, even though it is. j/k (I couldn't resist adding a bit of levity to this topic) 

I'm a strong proponent for software EQ. A good number of audiophiles will never accept that and I'm ok with that. I likely won't ever convince them to see otherwise and that doesn't bother me. I'm more focused on trying to encourage new fans of earbuds to hear the possibility of jaw-dropping sound quality because of EQ to really affordable buds. By the way, @furyossa is not the software EQ freak that I am -- he's a bit of both worlds and has one foot in the hardware side of things and another foot in the software "world."

There are users here who will never accept software EQ. I think this also has to do with their typical daily source usage. In my case, all my listening is done on the following devices: Pixel 4a 5g, Pixel 4XL (likely will be trading in for a Samsung S21 via the t-mobile $800 credit deal!), Note 10, Sony nw-a105, windows laptop, windows desktop, and older MacBook pro. 

*Why I am a big proponent of EQ'ing earbuds:*
1. With my compensation files, it's easy to maintain consistency across various platforms and sources. It is also restrictive, for many users, sadly. (ie. iPhone users.)
2. Compensation files allow for quick, easy experimentation with various target curves. Click one file, click another, etc. 
3. The improvement can be dramatic, especially with some earbud drivers. ie. datura pro. 

*Last words....*
EQ'ing can be a pretty daunting task in and of itself. If I didn't have measuring equipment, I'd be lost completely. There are so many synergies and unpredictable elements as to how changes in one part of the FR affects others. A big motivation for my work is two-fold:

Trying to understand if there can be a rough target that improves the sound of earbuds, ala harman target, oratory1990, toranku, diffuse-field, etc.
Take the heavy lifting out of what sounds great and allow users to quickly improve their earbuds and make the more specific adjustments themselves.


----------



## FranQL (Jan 18, 2021)

The3DCie said:


> You're welcome, I see that you've had a fair bit of recommendations by fellow earbuds experts in the meantime, in advance sorry for your wallet with all this choice to go through!!
> Fortunately enough, earbuds are on the cheaper side (compared to full-size headphones or IEMs), even for TOTL buds, which would be considered lower mid-Fi in term of price.
> 
> As for Yincrow, you can find them here : https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/32902306950.html  (only 2 left according to the page, hurry up if you want one!), that's where I got mine from.
> ...



Between Yincrow and jcally, which is your favorite?

Even though I keep spinning the green toneking. 

Edit: I just saw that JCALLY is 16mm, that's really big.


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32807226027.html
> 
> If you are on android and using local files, you can use the neutron player or UAPP for their PEQ.


If you're on android 9+, then wavelet is an excellent option. It's systemwide, so you can run local and streaming music. Some devices will require enabling "legacy mode" in wavelet, though. The wavelet files are more granular in FR impact than PEQ settings in general and wavelet's "eq strength" allows for really easy amplitude adjustments to the overall correction curve. If you're able to run wavelet, it's game-changing, at least for me.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> If you're on android 9+, then wavelet is an excellent option. It's systemwide, so you can run local and streaming music. Some devices will require enabling "legacy mode" in wavelet, though. The wavelet files are more granular in FR impact than PEQ settings in general and wavelet's "eq strength" allows for really easy amplitude adjustments to the overall correction curve. If you're able to run wavelet, it's game-changing, at least for me.


Im happy with the neutron players peq. I dont use eq on it that much though so I dont really need anything better.


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Im happy with the neutron players peq. I dont use eq on it that much though so I dont really need anything better.


oops.... responded to your post but meant for my info to be directed to @Braekfast!


----------



## FranQL

Sam L said:


> LOL. made me laugh while reading this!


----------



## Braekfast

Sam L said:


> oops.... responded to your post but meant for my info to be directed to @Braekfast!


I was actually just in the process of installing wavelet. I've only used it for my KSC75 right now. But wow, the difference is really noticeable. They just sound a lot fuller right off the bat. I'm already stoked to use it on my different earbuds. 
I'm totally going to look for an option on my PC as well for EQ. If the difference on my HD555's is the same as on the KSC75 right now, I'm going to feel real silly about not looking into this sooner.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Braekfast said:


> I was actually just in the process of installing wavelet. I've only used it for my KSC75 right now. But wow, the difference is really noticeable. They just sound a lot fuller right off the bat. I'm already stoked to use it on my different earbuds.
> I'm totally going to look for an option on my PC as well for EQ. If the difference on my HD555's is the same as on the KSC75 right now, I'm going to feel real silly about not looking into this sooner.


For windows, Jriver has an inbuilt PEQ.


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> By the way, @furyossa is not the software EQ freak that I am -- he's a bit of both worlds and has one foot in the hardware side of things and another foot in the software "world."


You described me very well.   
I'm the worst case for sure.


----------



## Toom

furyossa said:


> . If you use LG V or G series phone QuadDac will not work for low impedance buds (below 50ohms).



That's not true - the quad dac is switchable on or off manually by the user, but if on then it works regardless of the impedence of the earphones. You are mistaking the quad dac for the high impedence mode, which kicks in when the earphone is 50ohms or above, to provide more juice to them.


----------



## furyossa

Toom said:


> That's not true - the quad dac is switchable on or off manually by the user, but if on then it works regardless of the impedence of the earphones. You are mistaking the quad dac for the high impedence mode, which kicks in when the earphone is 50ohms or above, to provide more juice to them.


Yup. My bad. "Gain" mode over 50ohm


----------



## The3DCie

Braekfast said:


> I mostly listen to spotify these days, to be honest. After losing my library due to hard drive failure quite a while ago, the convenience is just nice.
> Would you say EQ'ing via Sam L's profiles is a good first step before I consider getting an amp/dac?
> 
> Also, I noticed that in your previous post the bluetooth devices your reccommended tend to hover around 100 dollar (which translates into around 120 euro, unfortunately). Are lower prices options also worth considering? I'm thinking of stuff like the Fiio uBTR around 30 euro and that apple dongle around 10. Those are the only two I know of though, I might be missing other great options. I did order a sonata hd pro as I mentioned, but it arrived defective so I never got to use it.


Frankly, I know other will probably disagree as they keep advise for powerful (and, of course, pricier) DAP/DAC/AMP but I can confirm, at least to my ears (and keeping in mind I'm listening at low volumes), that even uBTR is able to drive all the buds I have (as already mentionned I don't own 200-600 ohms earbuds, though, on purpose...), without any problem and with a delightful sound quality, more than enough to enjoy any music!  

If you want to have more room for more demanding earbuds, you can try Shanling UP2, which is around $70 I think, and is much more powerful already.


----------



## The3DCie

daanbr78 said:


> Do you have a recommendation for a relatively good lightning-port DAC that is small, something like the image below. And that is a significant upgrade to the iPhone internal DAC?


I think I remember a long post somewhere (was it on Reddit?) that did measure Apple dongle, just to discover that it was among the best one can find on the market!
Not to say it can't be improved or that there is no need for more power, but I wouldn't dismiss Apple dongle so quickly.


----------



## Sam L

Braekfast said:


> I was actually just in the process of installing wavelet. I've only used it for my KSC75 right now. But wow, the difference is really noticeable. They just sound a lot fuller right off the bat. I'm already stoked to use it on my different earbuds.
> I'm totally going to look for an option on my PC as well for EQ. If the difference on my HD555's is the same as on the KSC75 right now, I'm going to feel real silly about not looking into this sooner.


a lot of us use peace gui for apo equalizer. Peace allows point and click importing of PEQ files and the "compress" feature is similar to wavelet's "eq strength". Peace and APO are free.


----------



## RikudouGoku

The3DCie said:


> I think I remember a long post somewhere (was it on Reddit?) that did measure Apple dongle, just to discover that it was among the best one can find on the market!
> Not to say it can't be improved or that there is no need for more power, but I wouldn't dismiss Apple dongle so quickly.


yeah, the apple dongle is actually a good dac. BUT, the important part is the amp which isnt anything special on the apple dongle and is the reason why I rec stuff that is a bit pricy since they are quite powerful.
Because dacs dont make a difference in sound at all. 

(tested the dacs in the Ibasso DX160, Fiio M11, LG G7, Topping E30 with the jds ol switch that allows switching between sources in an instant)


----------



## The3DCie

Sam L said:


> the x6 are excellent buds and are well-tuned stock. but honestly, they don't come near the compensated datura pro. However, I'd recommend them for your use case (iPod shuffle)


Thanks! Between you and @RikudouGoku I think it will be hard to pass on this one!  


furyossa said:


> We had a very heated discussion yesterday. We overheated this forum in a short period of time


Ha ha, yeah that was fun, let the temperature raise for a moment, it's so cold outside!  


Sam L said:


> Ok, I've just read through 6 or 7 pages, trying to catch up on posts in this thread before I got to your post. I'm going to respond because you've ordered some awesome buds with good stock tuning (rw9 and x6), and you're also considering higher tier buds, like the EM5 (which I own and have listened to extensively (since release) after burning them in for a full 200 hours, per @ClieOS recommendation.)
> 
> I'm going to weigh in here with my opinion regarding EQ and also try to bring some clarity as to what my approach is with earbuds.
> 
> ...


Quoted for full agreement, a great explanation, thanks for taking the time to write this!


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> a lot of us use peace gui for apo equalizer. Peace allows point and click importing of PEQ files and the "compress" feature is similar to wavelet's "eq strength". Peace and APO are free.


Not only are they free, but the functionality itself is at a high level. They offer a lot of options, and it's very easy to use. Interface seems a little out of date but for free EQ is perfect


----------



## The3DCie

FranQL said:


>


Don't be sad, all this is just a hobby and I'm sure @furyossa wasn't joking at you for your English (we are a lot here for which English isn't our native language, and it doesn't affect the way we share our passion for music!), just finding a funny analogy to cool down the temperature in the middle of our heated discussion!   


Braekfast said:


> I was actually just in the process of installing wavelet. I've only used it for my KSC75 right now. But wow, the difference is really noticeable. They just sound a lot fuller right off the bat. I'm already stoked to use it on my different earbuds.
> I'm totally going to look for an option on my PC as well for EQ. If the difference on my HD555's is the same as on the KSC75 right now, I'm going to feel real silly about not looking into this sooner.


You don't have to feel silly for discovering new things!  
In fact we all discover or learn new things everyday, the right behavior is to be open minded about those new things and that's exactly what you're doing.  


RikudouGoku said:


> yeah, the apple dongle is actually a good dac. BUT, the important part is the amp which isnt anything special on the apple dongle and is the reason why I rec stuff that is a bit pricy since they are quite powerful.
> Because dacs dont make a difference in sound at all.
> 
> (tested the dacs in the Ibasso DX160, Fiio M11, LG G7, Topping E30 with the jds ol switch that allows switching between sources in an instant)


Yeah, you're right about power being the most important thing and I'm sure that the Apple dongle isn't the best in this case, probably far from it even.
In that case I would use a small amp, like Xduoo XQ10, extremely lightweight and small, while bringing a good amount of power (100 mW @ 32 ohms IIRC), and all that for a whoping $35!


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> (tested the dacs in the Ibasso DX160, Fiio M11, LG G7, Topping E30 with the jds ol switch that allows switching between sources in an instant)


Functionality and feature wise which one you prefer DX160 or M11?


----------



## The3DCie

FranQL said:


> Between Yincrow and jcally, which is your favorite?
> 
> Even though I keep spinning the green toneking.
> 
> Edit: I just saw that JCALLY is 16mm, that's really big.


Well, I would say both!   

Ok, I know it's not the answer you were waiting for so let me develop a bit.

JCALLY EP-05 are more "WOW" earbuds, in the sense they have big bass (but well controlled to my ears, not overwhelming or boomy, and great clarity throughout the spectrum. So they are quite fun to listen to, while having really good technicalities. The downside is, as you pointed, that they have a big driver (that was the reason I bought them, even if I wasn't sure they would fit me) and can be quite big in your ears. I know they are the only one i wear the "normal way", every other earbuds I have I wear them over the ear, as shown in this post: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3423#post-16089375

Yincrow RW-777 are a lot more relaxed sounding, in that they have a balanced sound, still on the warm side but not overdone. They have excellent technicalities and are a pleasure to listen to for hours, first because of their great comfort (they are so tiny), and because that relaxed sound just flows in your ears, with everything in place.  
The "downside" being they are earbuds that reveal themselves in the long run, as they don't have, to my ears, any "WOW" effect. They're not boring at all, though, I immediately knew when listening to them the first time, that they would be a keeper. And they are always in my listening rotation.

Hope it helps a bit!


----------



## furyossa (Jan 18, 2021)

The3DCie said:


> Don't be sad, all this is just a hobby and I'm sure @furyossa wasn't joking at you for your English (we are a lot here for which English isn't our native language, and it doesn't affect the way we share our passion for music!), just finding a funny analogy to cool down the temperature in the middle of our heated discussion!


No, I wasn't kidding, I only made a suggestion, because I also mostly use G.T. My English is much worse.
I had no bad intentions. 
Otherwise, I like to joke because too serious a conversation can cause overheating even a Supernova


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Functionality and feature wise which one you prefer DX160 or M11?


M11 by a long shot. 

Dx160 is super laggy and build quality feels cheap in comparison...


----------



## Sam L

furyossa said:


> No, I wasn't kidding, I only made a suggestion, because I also mostly use G.T. My English is much worse.
> I had no bad intentions.
> Otherwise, I like to joke because too serious a conversation can cause overheating even a Supernova


I was fooled by the high level of your English. By the way, I'm still working through your PM to me. It is filled with a lot of deep, high-quality insights. Not an easy read, even for English-speaking native.


----------



## FranQL (Jan 19, 2021)

I finally ordered these and the green tonekings, but I've left the rest of the recommendations on my list just in case.

€ 32,32 35%OFF | Ksearphone-auricular de Metal HIFI con controlador dinámico para DJ, auricular de 3,5mm, 15mm https://a.aliexpress.com/_B1k86v


Later I will try something with high impedance type rosemary or zen lite, just to test. Although this thread is about headphones, the sources are important and help to know what you can drive and what not when choosing, I think it is complementary and useful information.

If they are comfortable I hope to use them while I work at home and by not isolating anything from anything is what I was looking for, once my brain has burned I am sure they will be the ones I use the most. Some time ago I used pt15 that I did not like at all (my fault for sure, I barely used them) and Ry4s, that I am not able to wear them more than 1 hour. The thread has helped me a lot, so I will continue here.


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> I finally ordered these and the green tonekings, but I've left the rest of the recommendations on my list just in case.
> 
> € 32,32 35%OFF | Ksearphone-auricular de Metal HIFI con controlador dinámico para DJ, auricular de 3,5mm, 15mm https://a.aliexpress.com/_B1k86v
> 
> ...


You will be happy with K's Bell-LB (2020 edition) comfort wise. Ergonomics are ok, but I can't say the same about Toneking.
Both models have "concave arc" shell type  (see the scheme in this  post), but with the K's model the arc is quite relaxed plus the weight of the buds is concentrated in the front (where is driver) and with Toneking at the back part of shell (where is MMCX socket), so over-ear wearing in your case will achieve more sealing and better fit.

And as for the sound, I can't say anything. I had  K's Bell-LB (2018 edition) and I didn't like it because very weak low-end and
narrow soundstage but I heard that this newer 2020 version is much better. 
Anyway... you chose interesting models


----------



## The3DCie

FranQL said:


> I finally ordered these and the green tonekings, but I've left the rest of the recommendations on my list just in case.
> 
> € 32,32 35%OFF | Ksearphone-auricular de Metal HIFI con controlador dinámico para DJ, auricular de 3,5mm, 15mm https://a.aliexpress.com/_B1k86v
> 
> ...


Great choice about K's LBW, I'm sure you'll like them!   
And if by any chance you don't I'll buy them back from you, I like them that much.  

About ToneKing Dendroaspis Viridis I can't say as I didn't have the chance to try them but they seem to be praised a lot by those who have them so you should have a good pair of different buds to try, you'll tell us how you like them.
Toneking is one of those brand I want to test for a long time now, might pull the trigger on TO200 one day or the other!


----------



## furyossa (Jan 19, 2021)

The3DCie said:


> Great choice about K's LBW, I'm sure you'll like them!
> And if by any chance you don't I'll buy them back from you, I like them that much.
> 
> About ToneKing Dendroaspis Viridis I can't say as I didn't have the chance to try them but they seem to be praised a lot by those who have them so you should have a good pair of different buds to try, you'll tell us how you like them.
> Toneking is one of those brand I want to test for a long time now, might pull the trigger on TO200 one day or the other!








My only concern here is the type of female MMCX socket. The thin walls of this connector can deform over the time ie they become loose
My OG NiceHCK EBX has the same type, and it happens that I occasionally lose the signal on the right side.
Smabat ST-10 (first version) had a similar problem, and then they changed the connectors in the next version


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 19, 2021)

furyossa said:


> My only concern here is the type of female MMCX socket. The thin walls of this connector can deform over the time ie they become loose
> My OG NiceHCK EBX has the same type, and it happens that I occasionally lose the signal on the right side.
> Smabat ST-10 (first version) had a similar problem, and then they changed the connectors in the next version


Totally concur regarding certain types (female vs male and varying quality levels) of MMCX connectors. One must indeed be very careful with certain types. I had issues with the connectors on my original pairs of Shure SE215 and SE215LTD-A IEMs. Luckily they were replaced by Shure both times without issue and with their profuse apologies. I never had the problem again with either replacement pair. Strange but it was most likely my not being careful enough though I am never mobile with my headgear but rather stationary at a desk so hard to say what really happened though I suspect they were rather weak ("thin walled" as you mentioned). I never had any MMCX problems with my Shure SE535s which I had expected but never came to fruition. With my Smabats I don't even touch the connectors nor do I even dare look at 'em... you know just in case I jinx them!


----------



## furyossa

furyossa said:


> My only concern here is the type of female MMCX socket. The thin walls of this connector can deform over the time ie they become loose
> My OG NiceHCK EBX has the same type, and it happens that I occasionally lose the signal on the right side.
> Smabat ST-10 (first version) had a similar problem, and then they changed the connectors in the next version


How to check if the Toneking shell suits you. Buy a pack of Mentos Mint Candy and put in the ear.  If they don’t fall out within 60s then that’s a good sign


----------



## baskingshark

WoodyLuvr said:


> Totally concur regarding certain types (female vs male and varying quality levels) of MMCX connectors. One must indeed be very careful with certain types. I had issues with the connectors on my original pairs of Shure SE215 and SE215LTD-A IEMs. Luckily they were replaced by Shure both times without issue and with their profuse apologies. I never had the problem again with either replacement pair. Strange but it was most likely my not being careful enough though I am never mobile with my headgear but rather stationary at a desk so hard to say what really happened though I suspect they were rather weak ("thin walled" as you mentioned). I never had any MMCX problems with my Shure SE535s which I had expected but never came to fruition. With my Smabats I don't even touch the connectors nor do I even dare look at 'em... you know just in case I jinx them!



Speaking about MMCX connectors, are there any earbuds that use 2 pin connectors? MMCX of course has its issues (usually lesser lifespan) with frequent cable changing, but they are at least less variable in compatibility than 2 pin types, which come in quite mindboggling permutations eg recessed/protruding housing, angled/straight, 0.75mm/0.78mm, QDC/TFZ etc.

I find it strange that quite a number of modern TOTL earbuds still come with non detachable cables even in 2020. It's not only a potential point of failure down the line, but some of us may wanna use aftermarket balanced cables, BT dongles or even just other aftermarket cables for haptic or asthetics or even sonic upgrades. For budget sets to have non detachable cables is par for the course, but in the big scheme of things, to add a MMCX connector in for a TOTL set doesn't add too much to the price, shouldn't it?


----------



## mrfashion

baskingshark said:


> I find it strange that quite a number of modern TOTL earbuds still come with non detachable cables even in 2020.



Fiio’s reasoning with the EM5 was that their head tuner decided it sounds best with that particular silver litz cable. They didn’t want to compromise the sound quality by allowing users to attach different cables.

I might be in the minority, but I find it troubling that Fiio’s (head?) tuner thinks this way.


----------



## wskl

baskingshark said:


> Speaking about MMCX connectors, are there any earbuds that use 2 pin connectors? MMCX of course has its issues (usually lesser lifespan) with frequent cable changing, but they are at least less variable in compatibility than 2 pin types, which come in quite mindboggling permutations eg recessed/protruding housing, angled/straight, 0.75mm/0.78mm, QDC/TFZ etc.
> 
> I find it strange that quite a number of modern TOTL earbuds still come with non detachable cables even in 2020. It's not only a potential point of failure down the line, but some of us may wanna use aftermarket balanced cables, BT dongles or even just other aftermarket cables for haptic or asthetics or even sonic upgrades. For budget sets to have non detachable cables is par for the course, but in the big scheme of things, to add a MMCX connector in for a TOTL set doesn't add too much to the price, shouldn't it?



For 2-pin, you can look at the Rose earbuds such as the Masya and Maria.

Also, VE used to sell Omega Editions of their earbuds but now discontinued, perhaps you can look for a used pair.


----------



## baskingshark

mrfashion said:


> Fiio’s reasoning with the EM5 was that their head tuner decided it sounds best with that particular silver litz cable. They didn’t want to compromise the sound quality by allowing users to attach different cables.
> 
> I might be in the minority, but I find it troubling that Fiio’s (head?) tuner thinks this way.



On the Fiio thread, I actually asked the rep about this. He kept harping that the non detachable cable has a modular system to switch to balanced or unbalanced options. Fair enough, but I asked him that considering this is TOTL pricing, what if the cable dies at the non detachable part near the insertion to the earbud housing (which is a potential point of failure with frequent flexing), he didn't reply. I am quite fearful to buy any IEM or earbud more than $50 with non detachable cables as I had a few midfi Westones that died on me in the past (non detachable) at the cable.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 19, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Speaking about MMCX connectors, are there any earbuds that use 2 pin connectors? MMCX of course has its issues (usually lesser lifespan) with frequent cable changing, but they are at least less variable in compatibility than 2 pin types, which come in quite mindboggling permutations eg recessed/protruding housing, angled/straight, 0.75mm/0.78mm, QDC/TFZ etc.
> 
> I find it strange that quite a number of modern TOTL earbuds still come with non detachable cables even in 2020. It's not only a potential point of failure down the line, but some of us may wanna use aftermarket balanced cables, BT dongles or even just other aftermarket cables for haptic or asthetics or even sonic upgrades. For budget sets to have non detachable cables is par for the course, but in the big scheme of things, to add a MMCX connector in for a TOTL set doesn't add too much to the price, shouldn't it?


There are various advantages and disadvantages regarding flexible connection (where the cable is connected directly to the driver) and rigid connection (via MMCX,2-pin, mini XLR connector)
IMHO flexible connection is practical with all buds that have longer stem. The added weight by connector and also housing of the connector only compromises the fit.
On the other hand, connectors are practical for buds without or with short stem. 2-pin is lighter but does not allow any rotation which is otherwise the only advantage of MMCX. It annoys me a lot when I see non-standard MMCX connectors on some models as with Shure models and oBravo Cupid for example Luckily they have good support 
The mini XLR is the safest connection, but due to its size, it increases the weight a lot. 
Ok we started the topic about MMCX, so I would like to add this. Here are a few links about the types I outlined in the picture
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32892212454.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32892074243.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32957056187.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001593330598.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000144363063.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000162777437.html




*1.* This type of MMCX is often used for IEMs. The side walls are quite reinforced and the profile itself fits well into the shell.
*2*. I can't remember which model uses this type but this is one of the examples that should be avoided because of the thin walls.
*3*. A similar case as 2nd type.
*4.5.6* Are the types that can often be seen on earbuds and are very practical for DIY mmcx mod's.
For me *6*.type is the best but due to its larger diameter it cannot be used with all types of shells like type 4 and 5. The wires are easily soldered and do not protrude
Type *4* is currently the most widely used and is very easy to install in the MX500 and PK shells. The main drawback is the large length of the "neck", and it is not practical at all for shells without a stem.
Type *5* is an improved type 4 version. It has a shorter "neck" and a slot located on the front makes it easier to hold while removing the cable i.e. male mmcx socket.


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> My only concern here is the type of female MMCX socket. The thin walls of this connector can deform over the time ie they become loose
> My OG NiceHCK EBX has the same type, and it happens that I occasionally lose the signal on the right side.
> Smabat ST-10 (first version) had a similar problem, and then they changed the connectors in the next version


This problem I have only had with 2 iem of tinhifi, the rest have never been loosened.


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> On the Fiio thread, I actually asked the rep about this. He kept harping that the non detachable cable has a modular system to switch to balanced or unbalanced options. Fair enough, but I asked him that considering this is TOTL pricing, what if the cable dies at the non detachable part near the insertion to the earbud housing (which is a potential point of failure with frequent flexing), he didn't reply. I am quite fearful to buy any IEM or earbud more than $50 with non detachable cables as I had a few midfi Westones that died on me in the past (non detachable) at the cable.


We see so many new innovations every day when it comes to the design of drivers, shells, cables etc
I really don't know why it's so hard to invent a new connection, ie a system that will be much more secure than these connectors that have been used for years.
I'm not saying that they are not good, but there is always the possibility of something being improved and standardized


----------



## povidlo (Jan 19, 2021)

jant71 said:


> Was looking at the Maria II. Two big questions would be the over ear fit cause I would use a BT cable which is over ear and wind noise with that design. Never had that design and use buds outside more than in. Looks like the outer part would be too far out and have a wind noise problem. Anybody can comment on the wind thing?


I prefer to wear Maria I cable down. With newly-arrived Hiegi full foams, the fit is great. Over-ear, it's hard for me to position the blob with 20mm driver so the earbud is angled towards the ear canal. I don't get extra/less wind outside than with other earbuds, however for me personally there's more outside noise/wind if worn over-ear due to poor seal.

I've ordered Fiio UTWS3 2-pin version and will be trying my Maria with them as well.

Might be a bit different story with Maria II which is reportedly heavier due to all-metal build.


----------



## mrfashion

baskingshark said:


> I am quite fearful to buy any IEM or earbud more than $50 with non detachable cables as I had a few midfi Westones that died on me in the past



It’s only this which is preventing me from buying the Fiio EM5 right now.

To be honest, it wouldn’t have bothered me too much a few years back... but I keep having horror premonitions of my toddler tearing the cable apart like warm bread.


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> We see so many new innovations every day when it comes to the design of drivers, shells, cables etc
> I really don't know why it's so hard to invent a new connection, ie a system that will be much more secure than these connectors that have been used for years.
> I'm not saying that they are not good, but there is always the possibility of something being improved and standardized



the connection of two recessed pins is the safest or least exposed to breakage, but yes, with everything that is innovated it is striking that it is so difficult to get a good fit.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 19, 2021)

furyossa said:


> There are various advantages and disadvantages regarding flexible connection (where the cable is connected directly to the driver) and rigid connection (via MMCX,2-pin, mini XLR connector)
> IMHO flexible connection is practical with all buds that have longer stem. The added weight by connector and also housing of the connector only compromises the fit.
> On the other hand, connectors are practical for buds without or with short stem. 2-pin is lighter but does not allow any rotation which is otherwise the only advantage of MMCX. It annoys me a lot when I see non-standard MMCX connectors on some models as with Shure models and oBravo Cupid for example Luckily they have good support
> The mini XLR is the safest connection, but due to its size, it increases the weight a lot.


Concur and fully appreciate all "detachable cable" opinions offered and shared. I most definitely see the need for detachable connectors for those mobile users pushing the limits of fixed cabling. That said, my being completely stationary while listening, I rarely, if ever, test my earbuds' cable integrity limits. Besides the two Shure IEMs I mentioned before and a second-hand pair of Puresounds that were heavily used before my time, I have had zero issues with cables and prefer my earbuds to be as light as possible for a securer fit.


furyossa said:


> We see so many new innovations every day when it comes to the design of drivers, shells, cables etc
> I really don't know why it's so hard to invent a new connection, ie a system that will be much more secure than these connectors that have been used for years.
> I'm not saying that they are not good, but there is always the possibility of something being improved and standardized


Yes, it too amazes me that besides Audio-Technica's developed A2DC connector pretty much all other IEM/earbud connectors used are based off of coaxial RF connectors for antennas.


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> the connection of two recessed pins is the safest or least exposed to breakage, but yes, with everything that is innovated it is striking that it is so difficult to get a good fit.


When I mentioned the new connection system I meant an innovative modular system that will not compromise the fit and can be easily changed. Just to mention it refers to the connection of the cable to the shell only.
For example modular cable system with interchangeable plugs invented by Dita Audio company it is slowly beginning to have wide application.
This technology was taken over by DUNU and applied on its famous CHORD, HULK, BLANCHE and NOBLE cables. 
And Fiio was the first to apply the same system on earbuds (EM5 model). 
Also this modular system plugs can be purchased separately


Spoiler: Modular system plugs



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32993028884.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32921422302.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001463529250.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000858622753.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000500282380.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001115319549.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000021771334.html


An interesting solution that could be applied to earbuds is* twist-to-lock design* which secures the connection firmly. 
Many companies have been using this system with headphones for a long time


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> When I mentioned the new connection system I meant an innovative modular system that will not compromise the fit and can be easily changed. Just to mention it refers to the connection of the cable to the shell only.
> For example modular cable system with interchangeable plugs invented by Dita Audio company it is slowly beginning to have wide application.
> This technology was taken over by DUNU and applied on its famous CHORD, HULK, BLANCHE and NOBLE cables.
> And Fiio was the first to apply the same system on earbuds (EM5 model).
> ...


Now thats a good idea! 

Twist-lock designs seems to a good alternative to traditional 2pin/mmcx connectors for iems/buds.


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur and fully appreciate all "detachable cable" opinions offered and shared. I most definitely see the need for detachable connectors for those mobile users pushing the limits of fixed cabling. That said, my being completely stationary while listening, I rarely, if ever, test my earbuds' cable integrity limits. Besides the two Shure IEMs I mentioned before and a second-hand pair of Puresounds that were heavily used before my time, I have had zero issues with cables and prefer my earbuds to be as light as possible for a securer fit.
> 
> Yes, it too amazes me that besides Audio-Technica's developed A2DC connector pretty much all other IEM/earbud connectors used are based off of coaxial RF connectors for antennas.


I use my earbuds the same way. Even outside I avoid listening to music, but I use BT buds from time to time.  Do you mean this Puresound model?
Yup. A.T. has superb connectors for both IEM's and headphones. But only their models use these connectors?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 19, 2021)

furyossa said:


> I use my earbuds the same way. Even outside I avoid listening to music, but I use BT buds from time to time.  Do you mean this Puresound model?


No, my model was the discontinued *PureSounds PS100-600S 600Ω ear buds ("Pop" Tuned Edition; 2.5mm balanced plug; 600-core copper cable)*.
I acquired them second-hand from a fellow member here. They were heavenly; absolutely no fatigue to speak of. Super smooth.....................


furyossa said:


> Yup. A.T. has superb connectors for both IEM's and headphones. But only their models use these connectors?


I believe so.


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> No, my model was the discontinued *PureSounds PS100-600S 600Ω ear buds ("Pop" Tuned Edition; 2.5mm balanced plug; 600-core copper cable)*.
> I acquired them second-hand from a fellow member here. They were heavenly; absolutely no fatigue to speak of.
> 
> I believe so.


Wow man  What is that thing It's look A M A I Z I N G !!! "*Steampunk*"  Like candy-music box
Well that's a real DAC / Amp and not all this fancy devices that we see these days.
You really surprised me...BTW what's under the hood


----------



## Sam L

Normally have 4-6 buds in my backpack. Today it's just these two:




Both of them used to be the most dramatically improved by my compensation files until the Datura Pro came along.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

https://penonaudio.com/rose-maria-ii.html


----------



## gordonderp

Hey guys thinking about getting the Smabat ST10s just wondering the difference between the 150 ohms and 40 ohms versions besides the impedence of course. If it matters I'm just gonna be driving them through my PC no external amp or dac.


----------



## furyossa

gordonderp said:


> Hey guys thinking about getting the Smabat ST10s just wondering the difference between the 150 ohms and 40 ohms versions besides the impedence of course. If it matters I'm just gonna be driving them through my PC no external amp or dac.


In that case go with 40ohm. The only difference you will notice is that 150ohm at the same volume level is heard quieter


----------



## WoodyLuvr

furyossa said:


> Wow man  What is that thing It's look A M A I Z I N G !!! "*Steampunk*"  Like candy-music box
> Well that's a real DAC / Amp and not all this fancy devices that we see these days.
> You really surprised me...BTW what's under the hood


Thank you! Steampunk was a DIY project of mine... unfortunately, I accidently drowned it one day trying to upgrade the pot  so it is no more. The box is now simply used to store my earbud accessories in. You can read about the full build *here*


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Thank you! Steampunk was a DIY project of mine... unfortunately, I accidently drowned it one day trying to upgrade the pot  so it is no more. The box is now simply used to store my earbud accessories in. You can read about the full build *here*


This is the beast! I didn't know you like to play with DIY stuff too. Honestly, I haven't seen a nicer DIY device so far, seriously. Great work  
I'm sorry it turned out that way, but at least the box can be used for "jewels", .... sorry, i mean buds


----------



## iemhater

Sam L said:


> Normally have 4-6 buds in my backpack. Today it's just these two:
> Both of them used to be the most dramatically improved by my compensation files until the Datura Pro came along.



How does the datura pro compare to the smabat s10s or fiio em5?


----------



## rprodrigues (Jan 19, 2021)

.


----------



## baskingshark (Jan 19, 2021)

iemhater said:


> How does the datura pro compare to the smabat s10s or fiio em5?



Don't have the Fiio EM5.

But the Datura Pro in stock form is midcentric with a roll off at the bass (quite marked) and a treble roll off. It is a very niche tuning as such that is best for vocal/acoustic type genres. Timbre is good, technicalities are average. Doesn't do well with some genres that have bass forward music. With @Sam L 's EQ, it becomes a beast.

The SMABAT ST10S (Black Gold), is neutralish with a subbass boost. I don't have the black silver which is a different tuning. The Black Gold needs amping, don't try a low powered smartphone with it. It has very good technicalities, and the subbass is the best I've heard in a earbud (which is usually an area of weakness in most buds). Timbre is okay, but it costs way more than the Datura Pro, so not really a fair comparison, very different tuning and power requirements too.


----------



## iemhater

baskingshark said:


> Don't have the Fiio EM5.
> 
> But the Datura Pro in stock form is midcentric with a roll off at the bass (quite marked) and a treble roll off. It is a very niche tuning as such that is best for vocal/acoustic type genres. Timbre is good, technicalities are average. Doesn't do well with some genres that have bass forward music. With @Sam L 's EQ, it becomes a beast.
> 
> The SMABAT ST10S (Black Gold), is neutralish with a subbass boost. I don't have the black silver which is a different tuning. The Black Gold needs amping, don't try a low powered smartphone with it. It has very good technicalities, and the subbass is the best I've heard in a earbud (which is usually an area of weakness in most buds). Timbre is okay, but it costs way more than the Datura Pro, so not really a fair comparison, very different tuning and power requirements too.



I want to know how it compares to the equalized datura pro.


----------



## Sam L

iemhater said:


> I want to know how it compares to the equalized datura pro.


I'll do a write up later tonight.


----------



## Sam L (Jan 20, 2021)

gonna post observations as I go along with my critical listening of the Smabat s-10s, Datura Pro and Fiio EM5. (LOL... my shameless approach to getting to supremus status. I'm almost there!)

This is going to be a bit more involving than I anticipated because I don't listen to most of my buds with stock tuning anymore. There is really only a small handful that I can tolerate w/ stock tuning. Regarding the Smabat s-10s black/silver version, there's an obnoxious notch at 9k that really is quite destructive to the overall sound quality. I suspect that it isn't there with the higher impedance black/gold version. I didn't notice it previously that much since I only listen to my Smabat with correction.

I'm definitely going to have to eventually pick up the black/gold version one of these days...


----------



## mtl171 (Jan 20, 2021)

iemhater said:


> I want to know how it compares to the equalized datura pro.


I only have the Smabat ST-10s black/gold, though I have been listening to the Datura Pros EQ'ed over the past week. Like BaskingShark said, the black/gold is neutralish with a warm tilt. I do find it to have suprisingly good bass extension and enough upper bass to warm up male vocals. Mids are a bit rolled off near the upper end and turning up the volume just results in treble piercing your eardrum (with full foams). In this way, it kind of reminds me of the HD650 with tighter bass when listened to at a normal volume (granted the HD650 doesnt have a treble spike).

The EQ'ed Datura Pros remind me more of Etymotics ER4XR. On SamL's neutral preset, you still keep the mids/treble the Datura were praised for but you also gain back enough upper bass/mid bass to make things sound right. It definitely does lean more colder, and I ended up EQing in more bass for pop music. Though I'd hardly say they're bass deficient (but I'm more of a trouble head). Oh and the EQ'ed Datura Pros on default handle volume adjustments much better as theres no sudden treble spike.


Sam L said:


> gonna post observations as I go along with my critical listening of the Smabat s-10s, Datura Pro and Fiio EM5. (LOL... my shameless approach to getting to supremus status. I'm almost there!)
> 
> This is going to be a bit more involving than I anticipated because I don't listen to most of my bud with stock tuning anymore. There is really only a small handful that I can tolerate w/ stock tuning. Regarding the Smabat s-10s black/silver version, there's an obnoxious notch at 9k that really is quite destructive to the overall sound quality. I suspect that it isn't there with the higher impedance black/gold version. I didn't notice it previously that much since I only listen to my Smabat with correction.
> 
> I'm definitely going to have to eventually pick up the black/gold version one of these days...


They were half price on AliExpress for a while! Though reading some of these last few posts, I wonder if I shouldve got the Yincrow RW2000...


----------



## Sam L

more smabat s-10s black silver ramblings as I work through my library with stock tuning...

I am absolutely certain the single, glaring issue with the stock tuning is the 9k notch. Because of it, snares sound lifeless, staging suffers and piano timbre is affected in the upper registers of the instrument. Violin timbre is also affected noticeably, particularly e string notes.


----------



## Sam L

Smabat s-10s silver owners, who don't run my compensation file, just do this and your buds will sound 3x better:


----------



## baskingshark

Sam L said:


> more smabat s-10s black silver ramblings as I work through my library with stock tuning...
> 
> I am absolutely certain the single, glaring issue with the stock tuning is the 9k notch. Because of it, snares sound lifeless, staging suffers and piano timbre is affected in the upper registers of the instrument. Violin timbre is also affected noticeably, particularly e string notes.



I don't have the Black Silver, but my Black Gold doesn't have a 9 Khz area peak. Black Gold does have a peak around the 2 khz area. I find this peak can get hot with poorly recorded materials for trumpets for example, or with louder volumes (fletcher munson curve), but by and large it isn't shouty with normal listening volumes or with good material, and assuming adequate power is fed in the source.

Timbre for the Black Gold is quite good, better than the SMABAT ST10 predecessor, but I've heard better timbre in some other single DD IEMs/earbuds. Technicalities are really very good in the Black Gold, though I haven't tried anything more expensive than it, so perhaps TOTL buds may still trump it in this area.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 20, 2021)

Sam L said:


> Regarding the Smabat s-10s black/silver version, there's an obnoxious notch at 9k that really is quite destructive to the overall sound quality. I suspect that it isn't there with the higher impedance black/gold version. I didn't notice it previously that much since I only listen to my Smabat with correction.
> 
> I'm definitely going to have to eventually pick up the black/gold version one of these days...


Regarding my Black-Golds I don't hear any sibilance or brightness or lack thereof at 9kHz or really anywhere in the upper treble region for that matter... though I do suffer some hearing loss which effects the middle range (~275 Hz to ~1500 Hz) and middle treble (~4000 Hz). Though there are many that experience some achy high treble with the Black-Gold so I might not have the hearing capacity to catch it... lucky me.


----------



## Sam L (Jan 20, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> I don't have the Black Silver, but my Black Gold doesn't have a 9 Khz area peak. Black Gold does have a peak around the 2 khz area. I find this peak can get hot with poorly recorded materials for trumpets for example, or with louder volumes (fletcher munson curve), but by and large it isn't shouty with normal listening volumes or with good material, and assuming adequate power is fed in the source.
> 
> Timbre for the Black Gold is quite good, better than the SMABAT ST10 predecessor, but I've heard better timbre in some other single DD IEMs/earbuds. Technicalities are really very good in the Black Gold, though I haven't tried anything more expensive than it, so perhaps TOTL buds may still trump it in this area.


The silver has the same 2k peak you're describing with the gold version. The 9k issue I'm describing is a gigantic notch (valley/trough). I think it's clear that the gold version is a much better bud than the silver one.


----------



## jogawag

WoodyLuvr said:


> Regarding my Black-Golds I don't hear any sibilance or brightness or lack thereof at 9kHz or really anywhere in the upper treble region for that matter... though I do suffer some hearing loss which effects the middle range (~275 Hz to ~1500 Hz) and middle treble (~4000 Hz). Though there are many that experience some achy high treble with the Black-Gold so I might not have the hearing capacity to catch it... lucky me.


As reference: smabat st-10s silver retune vs gold


----------



## mtl171

baskingshark said:


> I don't have the Black Silver, but my Black Gold doesn't have a 9 Khz area peak. Black Gold does have a peak around the 2 khz area. I find this peak can get hot with poorly recorded materials for trumpets for example, or with louder volumes (fletcher munson curve), but by and large it isn't shouty with normal listening volumes or with good material, and assuming adequate power is fed in the source.
> 
> Timbre for the Black Gold is quite good, better than the SMABAT ST10 predecessor, but I've heard better timbre in some other single DD IEMs/earbuds. Technicalities are really very good in the Black Gold, though I haven't tried anything more expensive than it, so perhaps TOTL buds may still trump it in this area.


Welp that explains a lot. I guess this calls for some EQing and yet another reason click buy on that Dayton imm6 I have sitting in my amazon cart.


jogawag said:


> As reference: smabat st-10s silver retune vs gold


Oh yikes. That peak is sharper then I expected :O


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Could someone offer a basic EQ correction for the Black-Gold then... I be very interested in seeing that.


----------



## Sam L

jogawag said:


> As reference: smabat st-10s silver retune vs gold


Interesting.... There's a concept that I'm going to call the "10k to 1k margin" that is healthier with the gold than the silver. I'm not sure what the proper nomenclature is, but with headphones and iems the 10khz value should be roughly in the same area as the 1khz reading. My current thinking, as I consider version 1.6 target, is that buds can be more forgiving, just as long as the differential is within 3-7dB when comparing 1k and 10k. 

With your graph, the silver verison's 10k terminal point is a good -20dB from 1k, which is detrimental. My graph is a bit different, but highlights things similarly. Your Smabat silver reading has a significant valley at 8k, which is what I'm hearing with my unit as well. I'll probably have to break out my measuring rig, double check calibration and re-measure my smabat silver's again.

@jogawag is your reading an average of both sides? How many re-seats did you do per side? Re-seat = taking the bud off the coupler and putting it back on for measurement.


----------



## Sam L (Jan 20, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Could someone offer a basic EQ correction for the Black-Gold then... I be very interested in seeing that.


I can compile a correction off of jogawag's graph, either by plotting his graph or if he sends me his arta file. I'm a little hesitant to generate compensation files because his post 10k reading is absent a resonant point for iec711 couplers. @jogawag what coupler are you using?

**edit** @cenizas' rig outputs results nearly identical to mine. @cenizas do you have measurements for the Smabat s-10s Black Gold?


----------



## jogawag (Jan 20, 2021)

Sam L said:


> @jogawag is your reading an average of both sides? How many re-seats did you do per side? Re-seat = taking the bud off the coupler and putting it back on for measurement.





Sam L said:


> I can compile a correction off of jogawag's graph, either by plotting his graph or if he sends me his arta file. I'm a little hesitant to generate compensation files because his post 10k reading is absent a resonant point for iec711 couplers. @jogawag what coupler are you using?
> 
> **edit** @cenizas' rig outputs results nearly identical to mine. @cenizas do you have measurements for the Smabat s-10s Black Gold?



Sorry, this FR graph was measured by @ClieOS. I do not have the Smabat s-10s Black Gold...


----------



## furyossa

How about using other drivers, such as one of the DIY models with modular parts and an M2Pro shell. Has anyone tried it?
I wonder if the M2 Pro shell provides adequate conditions for any driver and not just for silver and gold type from their offer?


----------



## Sam L

anyone know who runs this site?

https://hiendportable.com/

Curious if he/she is on headfi. I want to get more info on the measurement rig used for their graph of the Smabat s-10s silver


----------



## rprodrigues

Sam L said:


> anyone know who runs this site?
> 
> https://hiendportable.com/
> 
> Curious if he/she is on headfi. I want to get more info on the measurement rig used for their graph of the Smabat s-10s silver



@cqtek


----------



## Sam L

rprodrigues said:


> @cqtek


Thank you!


----------



## cqtek (Jan 20, 2021)

rprodrigues said:


> @cqtek





Sam L said:


> Thank you!




Don't pay much attention to the following graphic, because I don't have a suitable coupler for the new micro I use now (before I used the miniDSP UMIK-1 Calibrated Microphone with a vinyl coupler...) But you can see that the drop at 9kHz is similar.


----------



## The3DCie

furyossa said:


> How to check if the Toneking shell suits you. Buy a pack of Mentos Mint Candy and put in the ear.  If they don’t fall out within 60s then that’s a good sign


Ha ha, I couldn't do that, I love my earbuds but I wouldn't lose any food to see if they match or not!   
I guess I'll still have to buy the ones I'd like to see if they fit or not...  


baskingshark said:


> I find it strange that quite a number of modern TOTL earbuds still come with non detachable cables even in 2020. It's not only a potential point of failure down the line, but some of us may wanna use aftermarket balanced cables, BT dongles or even just other aftermarket cables for haptic or asthetics or even sonic upgrades. For budget sets to have non detachable cables is par for the course, but in the big scheme of things, to add a MMCX connector in for a TOTL set doesn't add too much to the price, shouldn't it?


I for one like the fact that some earbuds have non detachable cables, that makes them so tiny and comfortable in my ears, e.g. Yincrow RW-777 or K' LBW.
But I'm also probably saying this because I've never had any failure at the cable level with any of my gears as of yet, hope this trend will continue.  🤞


baskingshark said:


> On the Fiio thread, I actually asked the rep about this. He kept harping that the non detachable cable has a modular system to switch to balanced or unbalanced options. Fair enough, but I asked him that considering this is TOTL pricing, what if the cable dies at the non detachable part near the insertion to the earbud housing (which is a potential point of failure with frequent flexing), he didn't reply. I am quite fearful to buy any IEM or earbud more than $50 with non detachable cables as I had a few midfi Westones that died on me in the past (non detachable) at the cable.


Yeah, having the possibility to change the cable on very expensive gears is quite a given actually, especially when you see that almost any IEM comes with a detachable cable now! It makes for sure for greater lasting life, in addition to improved aesthetic or comfort.  
(I'm not talking about sound quality as I'm not a cable believer)
But it seems earbuds world is still quite far from this, probably due to the fact that the market here is still mostly in the $2 to $10 range?  


Sam L said:


> Normally have 4-6 buds in my backpack. Today it's just these two:
> 
> 
> 
> Both of them used to be the most dramatically improved by my compensation files until the Datura Pro came along.


I have been lurking ISN Rambo II since they came out, but if you're finding that Datura Pro EQ'd are better all along I might skip them!   


iemhater said:


> I want to know how it compares to the equalized datura pro.


I think @baskingshark replied exactly to you request if you read his post carefully!


----------



## RikudouGoku

The3DCie said:


> Yeah, having the possibility to change the cable on very expensive gears is quite a given actually, especially when you see that almost any IEM comes with a detachable cable now! It makes for sure for greater lasting life, in addition to improved aesthetic or comfort.
> (I'm not talking about sound quality as I'm not a cable believer)
> But it seems earbuds world is still quite far from this, probably due to the fact that the market here is still mostly in the $2 to $10 range?


Ironically, buds usually needs more power than iems. Where a replaceable cable to get access to a balanced cable would be very beneficial lol.


----------



## The3DCie

RikudouGoku said:


> Ironically, buds usually needs more power than iems. Where a replaceable cable to get access to a balanced cable would be very beneficial lol.


Yeah you're right!   

Though you can still have amps with good power while just single-ended.  
But balanced output will always gives more power, no doubt.


----------



## furyossa

The3DCie said:


> Ha ha, I couldn't do that, I love my earbuds but I wouldn't lose any food to see if they match or not!
> I guess I'll still have to buy the ones I'd like to see if they fit or not...


Why not? Only 60s test. BTW ... just be careful not to start sweating because of the menthol coat on the "shells" .


----------



## RikudouGoku

The3DCie said:


> Yeah you're right!
> 
> Though you can still have amps with good power while just single-ended.
> But balanced output will always gives more power, no doubt.


Desktop amps will definitely have good power with SE. 

Looking at my Asgard 3 with:




But in terms of balanced output always giving more power..while the results is true, that you do get more power from the balanced output. It is because if an amp has both SE and balanced, the developer will put more effort into the balanced output itself. So the implementation of it is better than the one for SE, because...well people buy balanced amps to use the balanced output, so at that point the SE output is more of a "bonus" lol.


----------



## Sam L

Ok, I finally finished my comparison between the Smabat s-10s silver, the Faaeal Datura Pro, and the Fiio EM5.

It's a long one and you can find it here.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbud-target-curve-tests.944006/page-17#post-16120062


----------



## Sam L

on a separate note, I have a KBear Stellar w/ mic inbound. I'll review it when I get it and of course measure and build compensation files for it, if needed.


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> on a separate note, I have a KBear Stellar w/ mic inbound. I'll review it when I get it and of course measure and build compensation files for it, if needed.


Wow! This model has 1475 customer reviews on Ali. It reached great popularity in a short time. Interesting  Congrats!


----------



## rprodrigues (Jan 20, 2021)

Moved...
wrong thread... sorry


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Wow! This model has 1475 customer reviews on Ali. It reached great popularity in a short time. Interesting  Congrats!


one factor for that is probably because kbear is known for their iems and also some of their cables. So I guess that a lot of those orders come from people adding the bud along with the rest of the orders or that it is simply due to kbear´s reputation for those other stuff they make.


----------



## Sam L

furyossa said:


> Wow! This model has 1475 customer reviews on Ali. It reached great popularity in a short time. Interesting  Congrats!


Yeah, I don't know where this model came from. It's like it appeared overnight for me. The mic version is the new one, apparently the non-mic version has been around a bit longer.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> one factor for that is probably because kbear is known for their iems and also some of their cables. So I guess that a lot of those orders come from people adding the bud along with the rest of the orders or that it is simply due to kbear´s reputation for those other stuff they make.


Yup. We share the same opinion.  
Correct me if I'm wrong, they have 2 pairs of earbuds for now,  Knight and Stellar right?


----------



## baskingshark

Sam L said:


> Yeah, I don't know where this model came from. It's like it appeared overnight for me. The mic version is the new one, apparently the non-mic version has been around a bit longer.



The KBEAR Stellar is quite a cheap and good set. I haven't tried the mic version, not sure if they retuned anything, but for the non mic version:

*Pros: *
Cheap as chips, good price to performance ratio.
Light and comfortable.
Non fatiguing, smooth. Good for long listening sessions.
Good imaging and instrument separation for the sub $10 market.
Good timbre.

*Cons:*
Average soundstage.
Higher treble rolloff. Not the best option for trebleheads.
Slight midbass bleed.


----------



## mochill

WoodyLuvr said:


> No, my model was the discontinued *PureSounds PS100-600S 600Ω ear buds ("Pop" Tuned Edition; 2.5mm balanced plug; 600-core copper cable)*.
> I acquired them second-hand from a fellow member here. They were heavenly; absolutely no fatigue to speak of. Super smooth.....................
> 
> I believe so.


If you still have ps600 600 core I'll be interested in buying them soon


----------



## WoodyLuvr

mochill said:


> If you still have ps600 600 core I'll be interested in buying them soon


Very sorry to report that I mucked them up something awful trying to rewire (resolder) new cables on them... they are in earbuds heaven now.


----------



## Sam L

going to be giving the Datura Pro, s-10s silver and em5 a break for a good 5-7 days, so I can work other buds into my rotation. 2 or 3 from the 11/11 sale that I haven't been able to get to. All in good time.

The r4ys 300ohm compensate well. The results are a pretty neutral sound signature, even with my v1.5 bass target. Good transparency, very balanced sound, super non-fatiguing. Good value for $13 shipped to the US.

Here it is stock:




We should come up with a name for this sub-1k profile as it's really common for earbuds. 125hz peak, relatively decent symmetry at 20hz and 1khz. The interesting thing is various buds with this sub-1khz profile can still sound vastly different with this region in mind. The r4ys 300ohm does pretty well with this 125hz hump at stock tuning. No lower mid bloat, decently controlled mid bass (though not much in quantity.) I posted compensation files several days ago, which cleans things up nicely


----------



## Sam L

argh... so close to supremus status!


----------



## Sam L

Anyone with a Viridis, a measurement mic (no matter how good or bad) and one of the buds in my signature?


----------



## WendyLi

furyossa said:


> Yup. We share the same opinion.
> Correct me if I'm wrong, they have 2 pairs of earbuds for now,  Knight and Stellar right?



Yes, friend, you are right!


----------



## WendyLi

baskingshark said:


> The KBEAR Stellar is quite a cheap and good set. I haven't tried the mic version, not sure if they retuned anything, but for the non mic version:
> 
> *Pros: *
> Cheap as chips, good price to performance ratio.
> ...



With mic version is not retuned. The defference between them is in no mic or with mic.


----------



## WendyLi

Here is the product link of KB EAR Stellar! You can find both no mic and with mic versions! Don't hesitate, and just have a try! 

KB EAR Stellar: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001737624099.html?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.6.7b55468flqZQRS


----------



## Sam L

Something big is coming..... big..... really big.....

game-changing big for earbud users everywhere.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> Something big is coming..... big..... really big.....
> 
> game-changing big for earbud users everywhere.


Don't tease us. Tell us now.


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Don't tease us. Tell us now.


well...  I can guarantee this: no one will have seen this coming.... no one...


----------



## mochill

Tell us


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 22, 2021)

Sam L said:


> well...  I can guarantee this: no one will have seen this coming.... no one...


You are awful... lucky for you there is a mighty wide sea that lays between us or I be there screaming "Tell me! Tell me! Tell me!" while pouring copious amounts of water over your face!


----------



## Sam L

WoodyLuvr said:


> You are awful... lucky for you there is a mighty wide sea that lays between us or I be there screaming "Tell me! Tell me! Tell me!" while pouring copious amounts of water over your face!


lol  it's going to be good.


----------



## chaiyuta

Sam L said:


> Something big is coming..... big..... really big.....
> 
> game-changing big for earbud users everywhere.


Do you mean 7Hz earbuds?


----------



## Sam L

chaiyuta said:


> Do you mean 7Hz earbuds?


Nope. Not talking about a specific earbud, but something that can potentially change the entire earbud market!


----------



## chaiyuta (Jan 22, 2021)

Then Cayin C9?


----------



## FranQL (Jan 22, 2021)

chaiyuta said:


> Then Cayin C9?



If that's all ... it will revolutionize me very little ... $ 2000 ...


----------



## Sam L

Any me80 owners using my files want to test something for me, if you're available for the next couple hours?


----------



## mtl171

I saw this meme post on r/headphones and immediately thought of y'all. Hint: look at the very last tier


----------



## Punslayer

I don't have a ton of earbuds, but I do quite like the form factor.  I've had the CM2000Ti for about a year and they're currently my favorite headphones overall.  The Maria just came today and I already like it a great deal.


----------



## mochill

Maria ii available @penonaudio


----------



## dissociativity

Punslayer said:


> I don't have a ton of earbuds, but I do quite like the form factor.  I've had the CM2000Ti for about a year and they're currently my favorite headphones overall.  The Maria just came today and I already like it a great deal.


Be sure to review the Maria! Seems like a far better deal on sale, though I'd like to wait for at least one Maria 2 review first to see if a huge splurge is in order.
I have a Rose Masya Mk2 a friend in america is holding into until I get back to my home state to mail to me, so I'm wondering if it'd be worth the upgrade, as I've heard amazing things about the masya.


----------



## Punslayer

dissociativity said:


> Be sure to review the Maria! Seems like a far better deal on sale, though I'd like to wait for at least one Maria 2 review first to see if a huge splurge is in order.
> I have a Rose Masya Mk2 a friend in america is holding into until I get back to my home state to mail to me, so I'm wondering if it'd be worth the upgrade, as I've heard amazing things about the masya.



I'll make an attempt once I've had more time with them, but I'm really not much of a reviewer.  So far the fit is a little tricky for me, but the sound is worth the hassle.

I'm also interested in the Maria II, but in no hurry.  This one sat on my wishlist for more than half a year before finally pulling the trigger.  I am glad that I got the original though.  The Maria II description says that the bass level is increased and the bass on the Maria is about perfect for me so far.  Obviously that's a matter of taste though and I'm sure a lot of people would disagree with me.


----------



## coflaes

Sam L said:


> lol  it's going to be good.


Give us a hint


----------



## cqtek

Here is my humble opinion about the KBEAR Stellar vs NiceHCK Traceless.
I hope you like it.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kbear-stellar.24668/reviews#item-review-25182


----------



## djray

So I stumbled onto this thread and now I'm a little intrigued with earbuds again!

My last earbuds were the VE Monk+ and I was so disappointed by them after they were hyped up on here by various head-fi posters.

What I'm looking for is an earbud that matches the sound signature of the venerable Koss KSC75s. Let me know which ones come close or exceed it. I've read maybe 100 pages of this thread and the BK2 seems to tick a lot of the boxes, but please let me know which other earbuds I should be looking at. Bonus if they are within the price range of the KSC75s as well.

TIA!


----------



## Wallboy

Looking for earbuds for watching movies/tv shows at night in bed on my tablet. Any recommendations for around $50?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Wallboy said:


> Looking for earbuds for watching movies/tv shows at night in bed on my tablet. Any recommendations for around $50?


Really dependent on fit and your ear size... the following are a few great recommendations that are well under $50 but do punch over their price levels and would give $50 plus earbuds a run for their money:

Smaller PK Type Shell: *NiceHCK B40*
Bigger MX500 Type Shell: * KBEAR Stellar*_; _*NiceHCK Traceless *_(*@cqtek* has just literally submitted an excellent review of these two __*here*__)_


----------



## Wallboy

Thanks for the suggestions. I have no clue where to begin with earbuds/iems as I've never actually owned a pair, so I don't know what my fit/ear size would be. I've only used full size headphones. I am leaning towards earbuds over IEMs as I don't think I'd like the feeling of something in my ear canal and I don't need complete isolation.

I suppose it's probably a safer bet to buy multiple different pairs for ~$10 rather than a single pair around $50. Just looking for something tuned for tv shows/movies as I won't be using them for music at all.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

djray said:


> So I stumbled onto this thread and now I'm a little intrigued with earbuds again!
> 
> My last earbuds were the VE Monk+ and I was so disappointed by them after they were hyped up on here by various head-fi posters.


Welcome to the rabbit hole!

We can not stress enough the importance of a correct fit with earbuds... while not as crucial as an in-ear monitor (IEM) your ear size and anatomy does play a crucial part in the earbud being able to reproduce it's tuning correctly. Thus why there are various earbud shell types and sizes, as well as different thicknesses and combinations of foams available  



djray said:


> What I'm looking for is an earbud that matches the sound signature of the venerable Koss KSC75s. Let me know which ones come close or exceed it. I've read maybe 100 pages of this thread and the BK2 seems to tick a lot of the boxes, but please let me know which other earbuds I should be looking at. Bonus if they are within the price range of the KSC75s as well.



Many of the more trusted earbud fanatics here have likened the still available *Edifier H185* to the Koss KSC75; do a search of this thread to confirm... if I recall correctly *@chinmie *is Edifier experienced and has made a similar comparison regarding the H185 and KSC75.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Wallboy said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. I have no clue where to begin with earbuds/iems as I've never actually owned a pair, so I don't know what my fit/ear size would be. I've only used full size headphones. I am leaning towards earbuds over IEMs as I don't think I'd like the feeling of something in my ear canal and I don't need complete isolation.
> 
> I suppose it's probably a safer bet to buy multiple different pairs for ~$10 rather than a single pair around $50. Just looking for something tuned for tv shows/movies as I won't be using them for music at all.


Yes, unfortunately earbuds are most definitely (and initially) a trial-by-error experience as are headphones in general actually... being everyone's tastes, preferences, and anatomy are different. Luckily earbuds (and very, very good performing ones) are modestly priced in comparison to iems and full-size headphones. I would suggest you buy one PK shell and one MX500 shell type to see what your ears prefer size/fit wise and work from there. There is also a strong/healthy earbud trade/sell market as well.


----------



## chinmie

djray said:


> So I stumbled onto this thread and now I'm a little intrigued with earbuds again!
> 
> My last earbuds were the VE Monk+ and I was so disappointed by them after they were hyped up on here by various head-fi posters.
> 
> ...





WoodyLuvr said:


> Many of the more trusted earbud fanatics here have likened the still available *Edifier H185* to the Koss KSC75; do a search of this thread to confirm... if I recall correctly *@chinmie *is Edifier experienced and has made a similar comparison regarding the H185 and KSC75.



yup, as of this moment the H185 is the closest sounding earbuds to the KSC75 that i know of.. i even personally prefer the H185 than the KSC75 in terms of sound, portability, and comfort. 

another bright and sparkly earbud that i have is the Liebesleid, but this one is less similar to the KSC75 to my ears.


----------



## abhijollyguy

Does anyone know the earbuds with harman'ish tuning or the balanced tuning?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

abhijollyguy said:


> Does anyone know the earbuds with harman'ish tuning or the balanced tuning?


I may be way off saying this but I don't think the traditional Harman Curve (speakers) nor the preferred Harman Target Curve for IEMs (full size headphones) as we know it would apply that very well to earbuds unfortunately. Balanced meaning "neutral" a few recommendations would be YY BK2; FiiO EM3; Edifier P180; and perhaps the VE Monk+.


----------



## abhijollyguy

WoodyLuvr said:


> I may be way off saying this but I don't think the traditional Harman Curve (speakers) nor the preferred Harman Target Curve for IEMs (full size headphones) as we know it would apply that very well to earbuds unfortunately. Balanced meaning "neutral" a few recommendations would be YY BK2; FiiO EM3; Edifier P180; and perhaps the VE Monk+.


What about HE150 Pro?


----------



## Nool

djray said:


> So I stumbled onto this thread and now I'm a little intrigued with earbuds again!
> 
> My last earbuds were the VE Monk+ and I was so disappointed by them after they were hyped up on here by various head-fi posters.
> 
> ...


I was honestly disappointed with the resolution of the KSC75. The BK2 easily has better resolution & timbre, however it has no warmth at all, which the KSC75 does. They're great neutral buds but if you want warmth you might want to look elsewhere. Only thing the KSC75 does better is its treble is more articulate, whereas the BK2 tends to break up a little on higher frequencies. BK2 also has much smaller staging, smaller than average for earbuds even.

The NSC clear buds I linked in an earlier post comes closest to the KSC75, out of what I've heard. Not as resolving as the BK2 but comes close, and has about the same amount of warmth as the KSC75. Kinda flimsy cable though.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 24, 2021)

abhijollyguy said:


> What about HE150 Pro?


*Hi-Fi End HE150 Pro* is "V-shaped" "U-shaped" and known for it's bass extension.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Nool said:


> I was honestly disappointed with the resolution of the KSC75. The BK2 easily has better resolution & timbre, however it has no warmth at all, which the KSC75 does. They're great neutral buds but if you want warmth you might want to look elsewhere. Only thing the KSC75 does better is its treble is more articulate, whereas the BK2 tends to break up a little on higher frequencies. BK2 also has much smaller staging, smaller than average for earbuds even.
> 
> The NSC clear buds I linked in an earlier post comes closest to the KSC75, out of what I've heard. Not as resolving as the BK2 but comes close, and has about the same amount of warmth as the KSC75. Kinda flimsy cable though.


Wait, the KSC75 is warm to you?? Wow, never thought I see it being called that lol.


----------



## Nool

RikudouGoku said:


> Wait, the KSC75 is warm to you?? Wow, never thought I see it being called that lol.


Well, it certainly has more than the BK2. Looking at crinacles measurements it does have a bit of a boost around 100-200hz.


----------



## abhijollyguy

WoodyLuvr said:


> I may be way off saying this but I don't think the traditional Harman Curve (speakers) nor the preferred Harman Target Curve for IEMs (full size headphones) as we know it would apply that very well to earbuds unfortunately. Balanced meaning "neutral" a few recommendations would be YY BK2; FiiO EM3; Edifier P180; and perhaps the VE Monk+.



What about K's Bell-LB and K's Little Black Bell S?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Nool said:


> Well, it certainly has more than the BK2. Looking at crinacles measurements it does have a bit of a boost around 100-200hz.


It is quite bright for me, but well tuned and has refined treble, so it isnt sharp for me which is quite rare.


----------



## sutosuto

All, what earbuds do sound close to X6 but with mmcx or 2pin connector?

TIA


----------



## jogawag

sutosuto said:


> All, what earbuds do sound close to X6 but with mmcx or 2pin connector?
> 
> TIA


RY4S MMCX PLUS


----------



## povidlo

jogawag said:


> RY4S MMCX PLUS


What's the difference between plus and normal?

Have you tried 300ohm version that doesn't come in plus?


----------



## sutosuto

jogawag said:


> RY4S MMCX PLUS



I have RY4S mmcx plus, to my ears they are not close to X6. X6 is more balance with better bass.
Thanks anyway for your response.


----------



## RikudouGoku

sutosuto said:


> All, what earbuds do sound close to X6 but with mmcx or 2pin connector?
> 
> TIA


I'm interested in this as well. But I would be fine without the mmcx/2pin requirement. (maybe it helps with availability lol).


----------



## baskingshark

povidlo said:


> What's the difference between plus and normal?
> 
> Have you tried 300ohm version that doesn't come in plus?



RY4S 32 ohm Plus has more bass than the non plus version.

300 ohm version needs amping as the impedance suggests, it is more U shaped than the 32 ohm Plus. 32 ohm Plus has more bass quantities and extension of bass, but the bass bleeds and isn't as tight. 300 ohm is more bass lite but has a more refined tuning.

I've seen an acquaintance however, try to use the RY4S 300 ohm for EDM, and he boosts the volume to get more bass (as EDM is bass forward mostly). At higher volumes, this boosts the upper mids and treble too (fletcher munson curve) and can cause the upper mids to be a bit shouty. So IMO, 300 ohm is more U shaped and isn't the best option for EDM or bass forward genres. At normal volumes the upper mids are very well behaved and not shouty or fatiguing.


----------



## jogawag

sutosuto said:


> I have RY4S mmcx plus, to my ears they are not close to X6. X6 is more balance with better bass.
> Thanks anyway for your response.


If you are looking for a sound quality close to X6 to that level, it would be best to buy a cheap RY4S MMCX and replace its Driver with X6's. Only soldering skills are required.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jogawag said:


> If you are looking for a sound quality close to X6 to that level, it would be best to buy a cheap RY4S MMCX and replace its Driver with X6's. Only soldering skills are required.


Is that different from just modding the X6 with a mmcx connector?


----------



## jogawag (Jan 24, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Is that different from just modding the X6 with a mmcx connector?


Modding the X6 shell with a mmcx connector will be required with special tools (hand drill/drill bit/tap).


----------



## RikudouGoku

jogawag said:


> Modding the X6 shell with a mmcx connector will be required with special tools (hand drill/drill bit/tap).


I meant if the sound will be the same since both are using the same driver and shell (mx500)?


----------



## jogawag

RikudouGoku said:


> I meant if the sound will be the same since both are using the same driver and shell (mx500)?


Maybe using the same color (red?) MX500 shell and X6 driver will sound the same or very close.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 24, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Is that different from just modding the X6 with a mmcx connector?


No, it would be much harder. You risk damaging both pairs of drivers. RY store  use very strong glue.
Another thing to know is that these silver shells are a cheap copy of the Tingo model and many of them have a problem with peeling of silver acrylic paint.
Also, many of them do not have a "lip" that holds the driver (case with Tingo TC400 gold and red) so glue must be used
BTW ... original Tingo shells are very unique. See this post and translate description from taobao link below


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Hi-Fi End HE150 Pro* is "V-shaped" and known for it's bass extension.


The HE150Pro is one of my favorite models that I often recommend, after OG HE150 (MX500 version) which was unfortunately discontinued. 
Sub-bass is what this model is known for. They also have smooth trebles. 
I would rather say they have a U shape sound signature


----------



## cappuchino

Sam L said:


> on a separate note, I have a KBear Stellar w/ mic inbound. I'll review it when I get it and of course measure and build compensation files for it, if needed.


I've also got one coming in. Should arrive by the 27th or later.


----------



## jogawag (Jan 24, 2021)

I had two Yincrow X6s, so I made one of them MMCX compatible including the shells.
As a try I switched to a balanced cable to be balanced them, and an OFC cable to clean up the treble than original's, which was interesting to me.
But the silver-plated cable is too crisp and doesn't fit the X6.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 24, 2021)

jogawag said:


> I had two Yincrow X6s, so I made one of them MMCX compatible including the shells.
> I switched to a balanced cable to be balanced them, and an OFC cable to clean up the treble than original's, which was interesting to me.
> But the silver-plated cable is too crisp and doesn't fit the X6.


Now when you mentioned balance cables, silver-gold TRN balanced cable fits RY4S Plus very nicely
For less than $20 this is a pretty good combo


----------



## cappuchino

These free Oppo buds are actually nice. Never seriously listened when I got them with my Oppo Reno 4, but that was a mistake. Reminiscent of the Airpods, similar but not the same (vents and the nozzle-like vent). Fits very comfortably for me. Easily the best bass out of my earbuds due to the perfect seal.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 24, 2021)

Sam L said:


> Something big is coming..... big..... really big.....
> 
> game-changing big for earbud users everywhere.





Sam L said:


> well...  I can guarantee this: no one will have seen this coming.... no one...





Sam L said:


> lol  it's going to be good.


Ok @Sam L time to spill the beans...


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Ok @Sam L time to spill the beans...


Nah, it's probably v1.6 target curve  Just kidding. Come on @Sam_L it's about time


----------



## Sam L

WoodyLuvr said:


> Ok @Sam L time to spill the beans...




I'll try to write up something in the next couple hours detailing a community-based project.

I have a bunch of interviews tomorrow to prepare for.


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> I'll try to write up something in the next couple hours detailing a community-based project.
> 
> I have a bunch of interviews tomorrow to prepare for.


Don't worry, just take your time. The interviews are more important. BTW... good lack tomorrow


----------



## 40760

Out of the earbuds game for quite a while now... any current earbuds that sound like headphones? I remembered getting that from the Zen 2.0/omega edition and K's Samsara, but sadly don't own any of them anymore. I'm keen to look for that "wow" factor again...


----------



## RikudouGoku

What sources are you guys using for your buds?

Currently using this setup for the X6: Topping E30 -> JDS ol switch -> Schiit Asgard 3
(10 usd bud with a 350 usd source setup lol)

But it isnt much better than it is on the JDS atom amp instead of the Asgard 3, so I guess the X6 doesnt scale much higher than this.


----------



## rprodrigues (Jan 25, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> Out of the earbuds game for quite a while now... any current earbuds that sound like headphones? I remembered getting that from the Zen 2.0/omega edition and K's Samsara, but sadly don't own any of them anymore. I'm keen to look for that "wow" factor again...



Maybe the k600?
(https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2718#post-14841384)
(https://www.yooaudio.com/zh-CN/product/K's-Earphone-K600-In-Ear-Earphone-600ohm-High-Impedance-Earbud-Flat-Head-Plug-Earplugs-Kill-Monk-Earbuds-90.html)




RikudouGoku said:


> What sources are you guys using for your buds?
> 
> Currently using this setup for the X6: Topping E30 -> JDS ol switch -> Schiit Asgard 3
> (10 usd bud with a 350 usd source setup lol)
> ...



Mostly Fiio K5 Pro, Sound blaster X G6, and E1DA 9038. All bellow $ 150.
For portable scenarios, Shangling UP2.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> What sources are you guys using for your buds?


As of late, FiiO BTR5 and Meizu HiFi PRO


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> As of late, FiiO BTR5 and Meizu HiFi PRO


Wonder if the BTR5 is enough power for most buds.


----------



## chinmie

RikudouGoku said:


> Wonder if the BTR5 is enough power for most buds.



unless you're using 300ohm an up earbuds, i think the BTR5 is sufficient. 
those high impedance earbuds might be also have enough volume with the BTR5's high gain setting


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> What sources are you guys using for your buds?
> 
> Currently using this setup for the X6: Topping E30 -> JDS ol switch -> Schiit Asgard 3
> (10 usd bud with a 350 usd source setup lol)
> ...


Overkill setup  in a good way of course.
The X6 isn't such a demanding model, so I don't think there's any special difference even if it's just using one of these powerful devices.
But I think you really need a pair of 600ohm buds for intense torture. 
My current desktop setup is Acer Predator 17X -> iFi Zen DAC. Occasionally I also hook up a Samson QH4 (4 channal amp) when I test multiple buds


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Overkill setup  in a good way of course.
> The X6 isn't such a demanding model, so I don't think there's any special difference even if it's just using one of these powerful devices.
> But I think you really need a pair of 600ohm buds for intense torture.
> My current desktop setup is Acer Predator 17X -> iFi Zen DAC. Occasionally I also hook up a Samson QH4 (4 channal amp) when I test multiple buds


yeah, I havent been able to push my asgard 3 to its limit yet with my transducers.


----------



## furyossa

chinmie said:


> unless you're using 300ohm an up earbuds, i think the BTR5 is sufficient.
> those high impedance earbuds might be also have enough volume with the BTR5's high gain setting


BTR5 will probably drive DIY 600ohm Bery without any problem


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> yeah, I havent been able to push my asgard 3 to its limit yet with my transducers.


The only way to find out is to try with OG Sennheiser HD414


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> The only way to find out is to try with OG Sennheiser HD414


well, I am kinda interested in getting a totl bud..

The K´s 300 samsara looks interesting...
But it is only on one store, is it discontinued?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32825980749.html


----------



## mtl171

RikudouGoku said:


> What sources are you guys using for your buds?
> 
> Currently using this setup for the X6: Topping E30 -> JDS ol switch -> Schiit Asgard 3
> (10 usd bud with a 350 usd source setup lol)
> ...


I’m using a Oppo Ha2se and a LG V40. It’s not the most powerful though it works well enough for connecting to all my devices.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 25, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> well, I am kinda interested in getting a totl bud..
> 
> The K´s 300 samsara looks interesting...
> But it is only on one store, is it discontinued?
> ...


Probably.  I almost forgot about this buds. Ask for advice @Themilkman46290 on DIY Earbuds thread. I think he mentions this a couple of times


----------



## FranQL

[QUOTE = "furyossa, publicación: 16131139, miembro: 525994"]
BTR5 probablemente conducirá DIY 600ohm Bery sin ningún problema
[/CITAR]
[QUOTE = "WoodyLuvr, publicación: 16131114, miembro: 424446"]
Últimamente, FiiO BTR5 y Meizu HiFi PRO
[/ CITAR]

E1DA 9038sg3
Fiio BTR3k
Tempotec sonata HD and HD pro +V1
Xduoo X3II
Sony NW a105


----------



## Dboy Mac

When I was into earbuds I got the VE Monks, MrZ Tomahawks and VE Zen LL and  and stopped buying, Tomahawks died and I still very much enjoy the other two. I'd love to try the higher MrZ, K's or rose earbuds, they seem to get more attention nowadays than VE.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 25, 2022)

*Why Earbuds?*


A rather poignant subject for a many flathead aficionado this list of "whys" better explains our affliction and infatuation with open-air micro transducers. Earbuds aka 'Flatheads' are a non-isolating member of the personal earphone family which includes In-Ear Monitors (IEMs), Clip-On Ear Hooks, and Monoaural Side Earplugs.​
​
*comfort* _*(easy-to-fit; lightweight and cool for extended listening)*_
_*mobility (robust build; easily transportable; minimalist footprint)*_
_*open-air (airy speaker-like presentation; natural-sounding timbre)*_
_*non-occluding (non-isolating for optimal 'situational awareness')*_
_*hygienic (easy-to-clean; low-cost, easily replaceable foam cushions)*_
_*price-performance*_ _*(excellent value and return on your money)*_
_*variety (wide assortment of colors, impedances, and signatures)*_
_*diy potential (straightforward build process; affordable components)*_
_*low-profile (defeats all known partner reconnaissance technologies)*_

As always, I am open to any/all corrections and/or suggestions! ​


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Why Earbuds?
> by @AllHead-fiers*
> 
> Being a rather poignant subject for a many earbud aficionado I thought it would be timely to create a list of "_*whys*_" to help better explain our affliction and infatuation with earbuds.
> ...


Comfort: Rests on your ears, instead of digging deep like iems do. Heat doesnt get generated as much and since most buds are pretty lightweight, fatigue is almost non-existent.

Soundstage: Very big and generally much bigger than iems and at the same time feels very airy. 

Timbre: Excells at having natural timbre, that plus the huge and airy soundstage makes for a very natural sound.

Value: High value since even buds at the sub 10 usd range are generally extremely good and in my opinion (after having 66 iems) no iem rivals buds at that price range.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 25, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Wonder if the BTR5 is enough power for most buds.





chinmie said:


> unless you're using 300ohm an up earbuds, i think the BTR5 is sufficient.
> those high impedance earbuds might be also have enough volume with the BTR5's high gain setting





furyossa said:


> BTR5 will probably drive DIY 600ohm Bery without any problem


Concur with *@furyossa *regarding the FiiO BTR5 being able to drive most 600 ohm earbuds (if in balanced mode via the 2.5mm jack) as their drivers are typically rather sensitive... being well over 100 dB/mW.

Currently, my hardest to drive earbuds our my 2.5mm Balanced Crystalcore Audio Kryptonites (150Ω @ 95 dB/mW) and I only use the low gain mode on my FiiO BTR5 with more than half the volume available and they run with plenty of volume remaining on my mate's FiiO BTR3K though in High Power mode. My most demanding earbuds ever were my Puresounds PS100-600S (600Ω @ 93 dB/mW) and although I did not yet have my FiiO BTR5 I did use them with my mate's FiiO BTR3 in High Power mode and they were driven beautifully.


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> [QUOTE = "furyossa, publicación: 16131139, miembro: 525994"]
> BTR5 probablemente conducirá DIY 600ohm Bery sin ningún problema
> [/CITAR]
> [QUOTE = "WoodyLuvr, publicación: 16131114, miembro: 424446"]
> ...


_"BTR5 probablemente conducirá DIY 600ohm Bery sin ningún problema_" Is this how I sound in Spanish?  Let me try again but with your DAC/Amp gems
El E1DA 9038sg3 es mucho más potente que el BTR5 y conducirá el Bery 600ohm sin ningún problema. Please tell me if this is correct?


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> _"BTR5 probablemente conducirá DIY 600ohm Bery sin ningún problema_" Is this how I sound in Spanish?  Let me try again but with your DAC/Amp gems
> El E1DA 9038sg3 es mucho más potente que el BTR5 y conducirá el Bery 600ohm sin ningún problema. Please tell me if this is correct?



It will drive 600 ohm without problem, with outstanding clarity, but ... always with balanced cable, hence you will be looking for mmcx.

Yes, that's how you sound in Spanish, hahaha


----------



## WoodyLuvr

furyossa said:


> Is this how I sound in Spanish?





FranQL said:


> Yes, that's how you sound in Spanish, hahaha


*@furyossa *I think* @FranQL* is just being polite with you... you actually sound like this:

*Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore...

*


----------



## furyossa (Jan 25, 2021)

Spanish Is my weak point. Disculpe mi amigo


----------



## Sam L

Sam L said:


> I'll try to write up something in the next couple hours detailing a community-based project.
> 
> I have a bunch of interviews tomorrow to prepare for.


I was originally going to write up a detailed description and post it on a website, but the interview prep is taking a lot of time (also preparing a scope of work doc for a consulting project.)

Here it is in a nutshell

*Sam's Community-based Submission Project for Earbuds!

Ultimate Meta Purpose:*
1. Elevate earbuds into top tier audiophile awareness
2. Increase innovation from earbud manufacturers by increasing market demand, particularly in the Western Hemisphere.
3. Allow for higher consistency in the "wow" experience for first-time buds users (mostly likely coming from iems or headphones.)

*More Practical Purpose of the Project:*
1. Create a repository of FR graphs for earbuds. (I realize accuracy will always be an issue, but for comparative purposes and compensation file generation I think I have controls to minimize the variance enough for a positive impact.)
2. Allow anyone with a calibrated mic (ie. dayton imm-6) to submit measurements.
3. Generate wavelet, GEQ and PEQ files for every bud in the repository.

I know there may be a million questions about this project. After I get the site up (it's going to look ugly) and get cringraph integrated, I'll answer any questions and invite active discussion.


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> What sources are you guys using for your buds?
> 
> Currently using this setup for the X6: Topping E30 -> JDS ol switch -> Schiit Asgard 3
> (10 usd bud with a 350 usd source setup lol)
> ...


my chain:
phone or laptop --> peace or wavelet --> meridian explorer / oppo ha2 / headamp pico amp/dac / btr3 / qudelix 5k / sonata hd pro --> earbuds


----------



## FranQL (Jan 25, 2021)

Sam L said:


> I was originally going to write up a detailed description and post it on a website, but the interview prep is taking a lot of time (also preparing a scope of work doc for a consulting project.)
> 
> Here it is in a nutshell
> 
> ...



edit: my suggestion was already provided ...


----------



## Sam L

*Nicehck B40 users*

If you're on wavelet or peace/apo let me know how this new file sounds?

There are a handful of buds (3-4) that do not equalize well with the files AutoEQ outputs. There are a couple of reasons for this, but I won't go into that here. The region affected is post 10khz. In the past, lowering the EQ strength or using the "compress" button in Peace helped the compensation file to still improve the sound a bit.

It turns out that my initial approach to generating AutoEQ files with a 10k ceiling was flawed. Here are the proper files. I'm testing them out today. Let me know what you think. By the way, this approach of limited EQ to 20hz -10khz is also a part how I'll be generating compensations files for submissions via my community project.


----------



## FranQL

I have been looking for a 2.5mm mmcx cable, there is very little offer without the ear shaping, what I find is basically ****, I am not a believer in the cable, because I have never noticed changes in the sound, but if anyone has any recommendations I would appreciate. If not, then I have cables with the shape, but I will have to wear it over the ear.


----------



## Sam L

FranQL said:


> edit: my suggestion was already provided ...


If you mean that you don't use EQ (from an earlier post), I respect that position. I'm not against hardware mods or physical tuning of earbuds -- I totally respect and support the work of @furyossa and @assassin10000. They are some of the most active earbud users constantly experimenting with non-software FR tuning.

But my project will still help the earbud space still by hopefully increasing demand for earbuds. Ideally we need to eventually have manufacturers invest more time and money towards improving earbuds sound quality along the lines of what actually "sounds" good, similar to the impact of Harman Target to the IEMs. If you recall, just a few years ago, most chi-fi iems were really not that great -- just ok. After Harman became more influential to the target sound, chi-fi really took off in sound quality, while keeping the amazing value prop (ie blon bl03). We need that for earbuds!


----------



## FranQL

Sam L said:


> If you mean that you don't use EQ (from an earlier post), I respect that position. I'm not against hardware mods or physical tuning of earbuds -- I totally respect and support the work of @furyossa and @assassin10000. They are some of the most active earbud users constantly experimenting with non-software FR tuning.
> 
> But my project will still help the earbud space still by hopefully increasing demand for earbuds. Ideally we need to eventually have manufacturers invest more time and money towards improving earbuds sound quality along the lines of what actually "sounds" good, similar to the impact of Harman Target to the IEMs. If you recall, just a few years ago, most chi-fi iems were really not that great -- just ok. After Harman became more influential to the target sound, chi-fi really took off in sound quality, while keeping the amazing value prop (ie blon bl03). We need that for earbuds!



No, I use eq on my desktop, foobar + mathaudio, with settings provided by other users. Maybe I did not explain myself well in the previous answer. For convenience I do not use eq in my mobile devices, example: the 10 bar eq of my DAPs are tedious and only allow to save 1 custom configuration, as I am lazy, I do not modify every time I change the iem, only that. My suggestion was constructive and he already has it contemplated in his presentation of the project.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 25, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Why Earbuds?
> by @AllHead-fiers*
> 
> Being a rather poignant subject for a many earbud aficionado I thought it would be timely to create a list of "_*whys*_" to help better explain our affliction and infatuation with earbuds.
> ...


This is my 5 cents about comfort
Comfort = ergonomic design of the shell + accessories (foams, hooks and cable)
Most shells consist of two parts:
- the front part of the shell that carries the driver (Head)
- and the rear part (Stem)
Both parts are very important for overall comfort, the shell also has a great influence on the sound, and it primarily depends on the vent system, cavity size and the material of the shell.

We'll start from the "head". One of the most common forms of driver cover is MX500 (for 15.4mm drivers) and another version with metal mesh.
PK cover is used for smaller driver diameters (14.8mm).
Many well-known manufacturers have their own "original" design that deviates to a greater extent from the standard MX500/PK covers. Also they use additional rubber rings or extensions to improve comfort or to provide a connection between the driver and the shell.
Now, the main head part can also have different shapes and cavity size, which is good because different drivers require a different space in which it will work optimally.
I have already mentioned concave, convex arcs and angular sides of shells and their impact on optimal fit. The vent system located in this part (near the driver) is mainly intended for midrange tuning, while the back of the shell is often used for tuning the bass.
Another case would be when the stem is used as a base for female connector (MMCX, 2-Pin etc.) whereby a "rigid" connection is established between the shell and the cable.
By "elastic" connection is meant when the cable passes freely through the stem and is connected directly to the driver. This type of connection is the most optimal solution
in terms of comfort itself when it comes to shells with a long stem.
In terms of accessories, foams are one of the most important accessories used for better comfort and fit, they do not disturb the sound and protect the driver from moisture.
The foam itself can have different densities. We also often see silicone covers, rings and extensions used instead of foams. In order to achieve the best possible fit, we often see silicone hooks in sports buds or even headband (example Sennheiser MX 685 Sports and Sennheiser PX 685i Adidas).
Finally, we should mention the cables themselves, which endanger the fit with their weight. Based on this fact, many manufacturers use very thin cables to avoid this problem.
Avoiding this problem, they encounter the following: tangling and microphonics. To avoid all common problems, today we often see braided cables with 4,6,8,16 cores.
I will not start the topic of how cables affect sound because it is irrelevant for comfort itself. Many will disagree with me but in my opinion 4-core is enough for any type of earbuds, whether it is replacement cables with connectors or fixed cable, balanced or SE. Why? It's light and elegant that's why.
Joke aside, I'm not a fan of thin cables either, but in terms of comfort, 4-core cable has no competition, of course I'll take 6-core into account.
Most 8-core cables cannot pass through the stem and have a large weight as a replacement cable with a connectors. For models that require wearing over the ear, this is not a problem, but for models with a str8 up cable, well...
16-core cables are total overkill and in addition, apart from aesthetics, they do not have a noticeable difference in sound quality in relation to the previously mentioned cables with less cores.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 25, 2021)

I recently started collecting old and rare models of earbuds that have authentic and interesting shell designs. In the following period, I will try to present each pair individually and describe some important characteristics. Just to take a break from the usual MX500 shells


----------



## furyossa (Jan 25, 2021)

Sam L said:


> If you mean that you don't use EQ (from an earlier post), I respect that position. I'm not against hardware mods or physical tuning of earbuds -- I totally respect and support the work of @furyossa and @assassin10000. They are some of the most active earbud users constantly experimenting with non-software FR tuning.
> 
> But my project will still help the earbud space still by hopefully increasing demand for earbuds. Ideally we need to eventually have manufacturers invest more time and money towards improving earbuds sound quality along the lines of what actually "sounds" good, similar to the impact of Harman Target to the IEMs. If you recall, just a few years ago, most chi-fi iems were really not that great -- just ok. After Harman became more influential to the target sound, chi-fi really took off in sound quality, while keeping the amazing value prop (ie blon bl03). We need that for earbuds!


I totally agree with you. Blon BL03 is the great example for sure. The value of this model is amazing, and we can always say that it has a million flaws to justify the more expensive models whether the sound quality itself in relation to the price of the product is hard to surpass in this case. It doesn't matter if they are lucky or have a good team of talented people. The important thing is the final product that is good.

What I see as one of the problems is that most of them rely on safe design. What do I mean by that?
I have nothing against using MX500 shells, but it is very rare to see someone take a risk and come up with a new design. Of course this mainly applies to smaller companies. I understand that money is at stak, but I think it would be very important to try something new from time to time. Let's take an IEM model as an example, say FH1s which has a classic IEM shell. Imagine that for the next 10 years only this shell is used for all subsequent models.
Do you think IEMs would still be as popular as it is now? Of course, each model will differ in sound, but there are most of those who also opt for a model based on the look itself.

The other day I saw that someone from KBEAR showed up on this and on yours thread, which rarely happens.
This is a good sign and means that they are interested in the opinion of the users. Their IEMs and cables are really at a high level, and I would love for their earbuds to reach the same level of quality.
Of course this would be possible if a some change in sound and design are made based on the opinions and requests of the users.


----------



## FranQL

Blon is a good example, also with its new models, they invest in their shells, innovate with the resonance in each new model, and also maintain the best quality price on the market.

But, the iem reflection also has a very bad thing, and that is that from € 100 (in my opinion of course) every small improvement in the sound (call it whatever you want air, separation, stage, "intangible technicalities", that you prefer), it translates into twice the price of the previous model which is only slightly worse ... that is, it is not justified.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 25, 2021)

FranQL said:


> Blon is a good example, also with its new models, they invest in their shells, innovate with the resonance in each new model, and also maintain the best quality price on the market.
> 
> But, the iem reflection also has a very bad thing, and that is that from € 100 (in my opinion of course) every small improvement in the sound (call it whatever you want air, separation, stage, "intangible technicalities", that you prefer), it translates into twice the price of the previous model which is only slightly worse ... that is, it is not justified.


Exactly.
I only have a BL-03 and and I "hate" it  because every time I take some earbud after listening to BL-03 it seems to me that every model is bad. The good thing is that the brain quickly returns to normal. A really impressive IEM but I still prefer buds


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Exactly.
> I only have a BL-03 and and I "hate" it  because every time I take some earbud after listening to BL-03 it seems to me that every model is bad. The good thing is that the brain quickly returns to normal. A really impressive IEM
> Have you tried the other two versions?


If you are referring to the BL-01 and the BL-05, not worth it if you already love the 03. 

Cant comment on the BL-05S though.


----------



## waynes world

WoodyLuvr said:


> *FYI* - Last night I compared my new BTR5 with my buddy's older BTR3K with all my earbuds and I honestly could not differentiate between the two (disclaimer: I suffer minor hearing loss and tinnitus). With that said, I do believe your BTR3K will drive your incoming Smabat ST-10S Black-Gold 150Ω earbuds beautifully.



You were right! I've been listening to the Smabat ST-10S Black-Gold 150Ω's out of the BTR3K (in balanced mode) for a few days now, and they sound awesome.

I had been wondering if I would need to get the Qudelix 5K right away, but I think I can relax for a while (although I'm sure someone will jump in and try to convice me otherwise lol!).


----------



## RikudouGoku

waynes world said:


> You were right! I've been listening to the Smabat ST-10S Black-Gold 150Ω's out of the BTR3K (in balanced mode) for a few days now, and they sound awesome.
> 
> I had been wondering if I would need to get the Qudelix 5K right away, but I think I can relax for a while (although I'm sure someone will jump in and try to convice me otherwise lol!).


Since you already got a blueooth dac/amp, why not get a portable dac/amp instead? Like the ifi Hip-dac, less redundancy for you and more power output.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 25, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> If you are referring to the 01 and the 05, not worth it if you already love the 03.
> 
> Cant comment on the **** though.


Yup. These two.


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Yup. These two. What about BL-05S? I didn't know about "S" version


The 05 was the beta version for the 05*S* that came only a few weeks after the 05. (joking...)


The 05S should be the fixed version that is less shouty than the 05.


----------



## jant71

Hey! Earbuds only! What is going on in here?? Hmmm?


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> Exactly.
> I only have a BL-03 and and I "hate" it  because every time I take some earbud after listening to BL-03 it seems to me that every model is bad. The good thing is that the brain quickly returns to normal. A really impressive IEM but I still prefer buds



I have not used buds in a long time, I am looking forward to receiving the order.


----------



## mtl171

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Why Earbuds?*
> *by @AllHead-fiers*
> 
> Being a rather poignant subject for a many earbud aficionado I thought it would be timely to create a list of "_*whys*_" to help better explain our affliction and infatuation with earbuds.
> ...


Comfort: typically super light weight
Airy soundstage: this was probably the most unexpected to me coming from IEMs. Like SamL has mentioned before, its really hard to describe 
Design: one thing that surprised me is how variable earbuds can look vs IEMs. I can almost have a rainbow of chifi earbuds!


FranQL said:


> Blon is a good example, also with its new models, they invest in their shells, innovate with the resonance in each new model, and also maintain the best quality price on the market.
> 
> But, the iem reflection also has a very bad thing, and that is that from € 100 (in my opinion of course) every small improvement in the sound (call it whatever you want air, separation, stage, "intangible technicalities", that you prefer), it translates into twice the price of the previous model which is only slightly worse ... that is, it is not justified.


A couple years ago, I'm probably disagree with you. Though gosh, these Blons are not just hype. I got their cheapest model (Bl-01) and it smashes my 2 year old Kz flagship which cost double (KS7). It really makes me curious about midfi ($100-300ish) chifi but thats probably a rabbit hole I'm best avoiding...


furyossa said:


> Exactly.
> I only have a BL-03 and and I "hate" it  because every time I take some earbud after listening to BL-03 it seems to me that every model is bad. The good thing is that the brain quickly returns to normal. A really impressive IEM but I still prefer buds


I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt that. Listening to $24 BL-01 made me really sad about my ST-10s Gold. Though at the same time, it made me remember how big of a pain tip fitment and I did start to miss that earbud open feeling.


----------



## waynes world

RikudouGoku said:


> Since you already got a blueooth dac/amp, why not get a portable dac/amp instead? Like the ifi Hip-dac, less redundancy for you and more power output.



I'm sure that thing sounds awesome, but alas it wouldn't work for me. Before discovering good bluetooth receivers, I had dacs connected to my phone and I loved the sound, but I hated being tethered to my phone.

I have the cable of my buds run down my back (under my shirt) and connected into a bluetooth receiver which is clipped onto my belt.  My phone can then be wherever it needs to be (ie on my desk getting charged, across the room, being used as a camera) without being encumbered by a cable.


----------



## RikudouGoku

waynes world said:


> I'm sure that thing sounds awesome, but alas it wouldn't work for me. Before discovering good bluetooth receivers, I had dacs connected to my phone and I loved the sound, but I hated being tethered to my phone.
> 
> I have the cable of my buds run down my back (under my shirt) and connected into a bluetooth receiver which is clipped onto my belt.  My phone can then be wherever it needs to be (ie on my desk getting charged, across the room, being used as a camera) without being encumbered by a cable.


Understandable, thats my reason for not getting a portable dac/amp as well (besides already having a better portable source being the Ibasso DX160).

You can check this thread for more info on blueooth dac/amps. personally I would go for the Qudelix 5k because it has PEQ.


----------



## iemhater

I ordered the last datura pro on amazon, hope it is good.

Which is better, the parametric or graphical eq?

Has anyone tried convolutional eqs?


----------



## RikudouGoku

iemhater said:


> I ordered the last datura pro on amazon, hope it is good.
> 
> Which is better, the parametric or graphical eq?
> 
> Has anyone tried convolutional eqs?


Parametric EQ gives you more options. Like being able to use low/high-shelf filters and also allow you to change the Q value.


----------



## Sam L

iemhater said:


> I ordered the last datura pro on amazon, hope it is good.
> 
> Which is better, the parametric or graphical eq?
> 
> Has anyone tried convolutional eqs?


You'll love the Datura Pro's. If you don't I can help you dial in the sound profile you like. I'm actually going to try an experiment later in the week where I normalize the DP to the Fiio EM5 FR graph and a couple headphones as well just out of curiosity.

Parametric is better than graphical eq because the various PEQ parameters are more specific than GEQ correction variables.




For example, the correction curve for the above earbud is in green. There are two representations in the green curve -- 1. GEQ correction in the dotted line; and 2. PEQ correction in the solid line. Notice the solid line has less variability along the target correction curve. In reality, if you were to correct the FR of a bud with GEQ and measure the results the FR can look even wavier than in the example above.

Regarding convolution, I used to run them all the time when I used to use viper4android on my rooted phones. Technically the can be even more accurate than PEQ for certain recordings, but the results are essentially identical in practice. Out of habit I also generate convolution files for all my compensation work. I've just never posted them before.

Oratory did a write up on the difference here: https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/comments/go2grd/convolution_eqs_what_are_they_what_problems_do/


----------



## cappuchino

Sam L said:


> You'll love the Datura Pro's. If you don't I can help you dial in the sound profile you like. I'm actually going to try an experiment later in the week where I normalize the DP to the Fiio EM5 FR graph and a couple headphones as well just out of curiosity.
> 
> Parametric is better than graphical eq because the various PEQ parameters are more specific than GEQ correction variables.
> 
> ...


Is the Datura Pro's shell larger than MX500 (15.4mm)? Cause that's the only thing stopping me from ordering them.


----------



## Sam L

furyossa said:


> This is my 5 cents about comfort
> Comfort = ergonomic design of the shell + accessories (foams, hooks and cable)
> Most shells consist of two parts:
> - the front part of the shell that carries the driver (Head)
> ...


I don't know... for someone who has said they do not speak/write English well, you're posts have such encyclopedic information, I think you're lying.  

Super-informative as always!


----------



## Sam L

sub30 said:


> Is the Datura Pro's shell larger than MX500 (15.4mm)? Cause that's the only thing stopping me from ordering them.


I'm terrible with exact shell sizes. I'll leave that to @furyossa to answer since he's constantly thinking about shells and their design. I know the driver for the Datura Pro is smaller than the mx500 driver, though


----------



## Sam L (Jan 26, 2021)

Just got the Tmusic plastic version. I know the wood version was mentioned several times in this thread back in Nov. I actually ordered these back in November and they just now came in.  lol

It's got a really goofy FR that sounds more V-shaped than any other bud I've heard. However the upper mid recession is a bit much. The beryllium driver in this bud sounds like it has good technical potential, very clear and transparent with good/decent bass response in its stock tuning. I'll give them a listen over the next couple days in it's stock form and compensated.



**edit**
I just realized that headfi'ers coming from iems might see this graph and not associate it with a v-shaped sound. But in the world of earbuds, this is what a warm v-shaped sound profile looks like. Pinna gain with earbuds is considerable different as compared to iems.


----------



## Sam L (Jan 26, 2021)

Sam L said:


> Just got the Tmusic plastic version. I know the wood version was mentioned several times in this thread back in Nov. I actually ordered these back in November and they just now came in.  lol
> 
> It's got a really goofy FR that sounds more V-shaped than any other bud I've heard. However the upper mid recession is a bit much. The beryllium driver in this bud sounds like it has good technical potential, very clear and transparent with good/decent bass response in its stock tuning. I'll give them a listen over the next couple days in it's stock form and compensated.



Yeah, this is a good one to compensate. I'm also finding that if I limit the EQ to 10khz, there's less of a reason to compress or lower the eq strength significantly. For the time being, I'll likely just generate files for the 20hz to 10khz range.

**edit**
kind of funny how they ship these buds with absolutely no branding -- no packing slip, no brand on the packaging (just comes in the shipping box with the buds inside the case.)

I had to scroll through my aliexpress purchase history and compare the buds with product photos to figure out what they were. lol


----------



## 40760

I'm really close to ordering a set of Fiio EM5... Can anyone share if they are really good for that price?


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> What sources are you guys using for your buds?




A bit of an overkill, at home I'm using a MusicBee Windows Player -> Khadas Tone Board -> Topping L30 amp for most of my earbuds. So far the Topping L30 hasn't exploded haha (there are some forum reports about ESD blowing up IEMs and headphones), but Topping is currently in the midst of replacing the older models which don't have ESD/DC protection. Anyways most of the earbuds I have are sub $20 so even if it explodes, the audio nirvana with the Topping L30 is worth it!

On the go, I use a Shanling Q1 DAP or Tempotec Sonata HD Pro via smartphone. Can't drive high impedance earbuds satisfactorily but oh wells.




WoodyLuvr said:


> *Why Earbuds?*
> *by @AllHead-fiers*
> 
> Being a rather poignant subject for a many earbud aficionado I thought it would be timely to create a list of "_*whys*_" to help better explain our affliction and infatuation with earbuds.
> ...



I like earbuds for a few reasons:

1)* Better soundstage than IEMs *- earbuds are more akin to open backed headphones than IEMs IMHO. But you don't get the clamp or earpad heat of headphones, and also those with spectacles may find earbuds more ergonomic than headphones.
2) *Generally good price to performance ratio *compared to IEMs and headphones - $10 - 20 can get you very decent sound, $50 - 100 can get u midfi buds, and even $100 - 200 can get you TOTL earbuds, in contrast to the higher price range for IEMs/headphones in the midfi/TOTL brackets.
3) *Generally good timbre* for acoustic instruments - no surprise as most earbuds contain DD.
4) *Good for those that can't fit *IEMs or get ear infections/abrasions with IEMs.
5) *MOST IMPORTANT POINT* - EARBUDS ARE GOOD FOR HIDING AUDIO GEAR FROM THE WIFE. IT IS A VERY GOOD AUDIO STEALTH TECHNOLOGY. MUCH EASIER TO HIDE THAN HEADPHONES.
6)* Situational awareness* as some say - this is a double edged sword though as the poorer isolation of earbuds can get subbass to be lost, or one can end up turning up the volume to compensate for the poor isolation when outdoors (and this is not good for hearing health).


----------



## furyossa

sub30 said:


> Is the Datura Pro's shell larger than MX500 (15.4mm)? Cause that's the only thing stopping me from ordering them.


DaturaPro uses 14.8mm aluminum coated driver. Also, you can wear them over ears
BTW... the only reason you shouldn't order them is if you don't plan to use EQ correction


----------



## cappuchino

furyossa said:


> DaturaPro uses 14.8mm aluminum coated driver. Also, you can wear them over ears
> BTW... the only reason you shouldn't order them is if you don't plan to use EQ correction


Thanks! I thought it looked bigger/chunkier than MX500 🤣


----------



## furyossa (Jan 26, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> A bit of an overkill, at home I'm using a MusicBee Windows Player -> Khadas Tone Board -> Topping L30 amp for most of my earbuds.


I use MusicBee probably 99%. The modern UI looks awesome, functionality also. I just wish there was a little better support for VST plugins.


baskingshark said:


> 4) *Good for those that can't fit *IEMs or get ear infections/abrasions with IEMs.


Honestly I hate it more when IEM has a bad fit than buds


baskingshark said:


> 5) *MOST IMPORTANT POINT* - EARBUDS ARE GOOD FOR HIDING AUDIO GEAR FROM THE WIFE. IT IS A VERY GOOD AUDIO STEALTH TECHNOLOGY. MUCH EASIER TO HIDE THAN HEADPHONES.


hmmmm... not if she has a flair like a German Shepherd   ...then there is no help.
NOTHING CAN BE HIDDEN IN THAT CASE, even if you try to hide them somewhere in the neighborhood


baskingshark said:


> 6)* Situational awareness* as some say - this is a double edged sword though as the poorer isolation of earbuds can get subbass to be lost, or one can end up turning up the volume to compensate for the poor isolation when outdoors (and this is not good for hearing health).


I'm not a huge fan of silicone extensions, but they can certainly help for outside listening


----------



## furyossa

sub30 said:


> Thanks! I thought it looked bigger/chunkier than MX500 🤣


The look can be deceiving


----------



## FranQL

baskingshark said:


> 5) *MOST IMPORTANT POINT* - EARBUDS ARE GOOD FOR HIDING AUDIO GEAR FROM THE WIFE. IT IS A VERY GOOD AUDIO STEALTH TECHNOLOGY. MUCH EASIER TO HIDE THAN HEADPHONES.



This is very good, if you are skillful you buy them all black to seem like they are always the same ... My super intelligence has allowed me to buy the green tonekings ... and I will have to give some other explanation ...


----------



## The3DCie

Wow, lots of very interesting things to read since a few days, you can't be too far away from Head-Fi for even a short period of time or you end up drowning under loads of posts to catch up!   

I received all the things I ordered on January 11th and I'll comment on the JCALLY buds as soon as I have some time.  
The only thing I can say for now is that EP-01, @ $2,5, is just a steal, it sounds so good and addictive to my ears that it's almost getting 100% of my listening time those days!  
Probably still "honeymoon phase", but definitely a good one, and probably the most comfortable buds I have, love them!  

Keep up the great posts, earbuds all the way!!


----------



## furyossa (Jan 26, 2021)

The3DCie said:


> Wow, lots of very interesting things to read since a few days, you can't be too far away from Head-Fi for even a short period of time or you end up drowning under loads of posts to catch up!
> 
> I received all the things I ordered on January 11th and I'll comment on the JCALLY buds as soon as I have some time.
> The only thing I can say for now is that EP-01, @ $2,5, is just a steal, it sounds so good and addictive to my ears that it's almost getting 100% of my listening time those days!
> ...


What did you think, we would keep quiet and wait for you to come back from your honeymoon?  
I thought you found your endgame buds and gave up hanging out with us 'bud-heads" 
I'm interested to hear what  brought you? Are there any gems other than EP-01?


----------



## Sam L

palestofwhite said:


> I'm really close to ordering a set of Fiio EM5... Can anyone share if they are really good for that price?


ummmm.... not an easy question to answer. 

If you like a warm, mid centric sound, then yes. If not, then no, I'd pass on them for the price they sell for. If your source is an android device running wavelet, then an even stronger yes because with my compensation files you are getting 2 very different tunings for the price of one. 

Cenizas also has the em5. Here's his take on my compensation: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbud-target-curve-tests.944006/page-5#post-15967177

Here's my write up on the em5 as compared to a couple of other buds. 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbud-target-curve-tests.944006/page-17#post-16120062

But honestly, if you are ok with eq'ing your buds, the datura pro compensated is, no joke, a peer of the em5 but at a fraction of the price ($26 delivered to the US).


----------



## Sam L

The3DCie said:


> Wow, lots of very interesting things to read since a few days, you can't be too far away from Head-Fi for even a short period of time or you end up drowning under loads of posts to catch up!
> 
> I received all the things I ordered on January 11th and I'll comment on the JCALLY buds as soon as I have some time.
> The only thing I can say for now is that EP-01, @ $2,5, is just a steal, it sounds so good and addictive to my ears that it's almost getting 100% of my listening time those days!
> ...


hmm... tempting. At $2.50 that's cheaper than the price of a good cup of coffee. But how many earbuds do we really need? I really should try to reach out to all these manufacturers to have them send me some to measure and compensate.


----------



## Sam L

furyossa said:


> The other day I saw that someone from KBEAR showed up on this and on yours thread, which rarely happens.
> This is a good sign and means that they are interested in the opinion of the users. Their IEMs and cables are really at a high level, and I would love for their earbuds to reach the same level of quality.
> Of course this would be possible if a some change in sound and design are made based on the opinions and requests of the users.


I reached out to KBEAR and invited them to this thread. =)


----------



## Sam L

waynes world said:


> You were right! I've been listening to the Smabat ST-10S Black-Gold 150Ω's out of the BTR3K (in balanced mode) for a few days now, and they sound awesome.
> 
> I had been wondering if I would need to get the Qudelix 5K right away, but I think I can relax for a while (although I'm sure someone will jump in and try to convice me otherwise lol!).


Even though I adore the Qudelix 5k, honestly I don't think you absolutely need one, especially since your signature lists the es100 along with your btr3k. I actually listen to my btr3 more than my qudelix, but only because I keep leaving the qudelix at home. (I use it as my dac for measurements. the output is really clean for that purpose.)


----------



## cappuchino

New JCALLY earbud. Titanium for cheap... USD 17.00


----------



## furyossa

sub30 said:


> New JCALLY earbud. Titanium for cheap... USD 17.00


Nice find. And that's Audio-Technica style buds. 
Very good proportions. Short stem, matching mmcx housing with strain relief.
Two things that are a bit problematic
- I don't see any vents
- a bit sharp edge 



Can you post link?


----------



## cappuchino (Jan 26, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Nice find. And that's Audio-Technica style buds.
> Very good proportions. Short stem, matching mmcx housing with strain relief.
> Two things that are a bit problematic
> - I don't see any vents
> ...


Sure! Here it is https://shopee.ph/product/283086553/7977281648?smtt=0.174314985-1611660233.9

Though as far as I'm aware Shopee's only for SEA.

I also noticed the things you pointed out. Their other buds were criticized to lack bass and I guess this should solve it? Okay, that doesn't even make sense 🤣. It should still be bass-anemic. But how does the driver _breathe_?


Here are other pics:


----------



## cappuchino

Here's for the Yincrow fans... USD 40.00

https://shopee.ph/product/283086553/4477796026?smtt=0.174314985-1611660944.9


----------



## WoodyLuvr

palestofwhite said:


> I'm really close to ordering a set of Fiio EM5... Can anyone share if they are really good for that price?


Here is earbuds expert *@ClieOS* take on the *FiiO EM5*

*

*


----------



## FranQL

sub30 said:


> Sure! Here it is https://shopee.ph/product/283086553/7977281648?smtt=0.174314985-1611660233.9
> 
> Though as far as I'm aware Shopee's only for SEA.
> 
> ...



They are also on Ali:

https://a.aliexpress.com/_BSlKad


----------



## cappuchino

FranQL said:


> They are also on Ali:
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_BSlKad


Oh Ali, you always increase the prices 😔


----------



## furyossa

sub30 said:


> Sure! Here it is https://shopee.ph/product/283086553/7977281648?smtt=0.174314985-1611660233.9
> Though as far as I'm aware Shopee's only for SEA.
> I also noticed the things you pointed out. Their other buds were criticized to lack bass and I guess this should solve it? Okay, that doesn't even make sense 🤣. It should still be bass-anemic. But how does the driver _breathe_?


The bass will be reduced without any vent. But that's not the only problem. I never saw a *Ti* driver with shrinked (50Hz) low end. Maybe is typo.
For the shell they use copper which is good material for non-resonant shells but 25gr weight with that "edge" will probably cause discomfort after a short time


----------



## baskingshark (Jan 26, 2021)

furyossa said:


> The bass will be reduced without any vent. But that's not the only problem. I never saw a *Ti* driver with shrinked (50Hz) low end. Maybe is typo.



LOL maybe they are telling the truth about subbass roll off in most earbud designs.

I always chuckle when I see some CHIFI manufacturers try to claim a 10 Hz - 40000 Hz FR. Perhaps those IEMs and buds would be very suited for our bat and dolphin friends, to appreciate those extreme frequencies.


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> LOL maybe they are telling the truth about subbass roll off in most earbud designs.
> 
> I always chuckle when I see some CHIFI manufacturers try to claim a 10 Hz - 40000 Hz FR. Perhaps those IEMs and buds would be very suited for our bat and dolphin friends, to appreciate those extreme frequencies.


No, no that is for small fish and sharks  For dolphins these two are perfect  Sony IER-Z1R and Technics EAH-TZ700 (the brothers in F.R: 3Hz-100kHz)


----------



## Sam L (Jan 26, 2021)

Got these during the 11/11 sale but never got around to listening and measuring them.

*Toneking TP16 32 ohm compensation files **here**.*

Here's what's being corrected:


----------



## furyossa (Jan 27, 2021)

furyossa said:


> The bass will be reduced without any vent. But that's not the only problem. I never saw a *Ti* driver with shrinked (50Hz) low end. Maybe is typo.
> For the shell they use copper which is good material for non-resonant shells but 25gr weight with that "edge" will probably cause discomfort after a short time


All in all, EP08 pros and cons
*pors:*
- price
- build quality
- "exotic" driver (15.4mm Ti) N52
-  detachable cable with matching mmcx housing
*cons:*
- design of the shell:
---- not so great ergonomics
---- no vents = bye bye bass
---- this type of shell can block rear wave and cause congested sound. That depends on the construction of the drivers (for standard MX500 typs is not good)
- weight (material like copper and brass have good characteristics but they are too heavy)
- cut - off low end
- sensitivity is too high for 32ohm


----------



## cappuchino

furyossa said:


> All in all, EP08 pros and cons
> *pors:*
> - price
> - build quality
> ...


Holy crap! Now that you mentioned the sensitivity, it's freakinG HIGH! But I do wonder if it was just bad translation or typographical errors. I remember seeing the EP05 listed at 320 ohms.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 26, 2021)

sub30 said:


> Holy crap! Now that you mentioned the sensitivity, it's freakinG HIGH! But I do wonder if it was just bad translation or typographical errors. I remember seeing the EP05 listed at 320 ohms.


Your link and link on Ali have the same spec. So I don't think that is typo. IMHO 125dB is too much even for 600ohm driver (15.4mm)


----------



## Toom

The Fiio EM5s continue to impress me. I wonder if the reason they are not mentioned more here is due to their price? Yet they are actually really cheap when compared to most of the IEMs discussed here at Head-fi, so I am more than happy to pay this.

Seems a bit of a disjunct between this earphone niche, with its "Hey I got 12 new Chi-fi earbuds for $0.50 all in." and the IEM crew with their "Hey I got this 12 driver Lithuanian IEM carved out of pure unobtanium and it was so affordable at $5k."


----------



## 40760 (Jan 26, 2021)

Toom said:


> The Fiio EM5s continue to impress me. I wonder if the reason they are not mentioned more here is due to their price? Yet they are actually really cheap when compared to most of the IEMs discussed here at Head-fi, so I am more than happy to pay this.
> 
> Seems a bit of a disjunct between this earphone niche, with its "Hey I got 12 new Chi-fi earbuds for $0.50 all in." and the IEM crew with their "Hey I got this 12 driver Lithuanian IEM carved out of pure unobtanium and it was so affordable at $5k."



Do the EM5 have good low ends? I'm seriously considering ordering a pair of these the weather is getting a bit too warm for headphones around these parts...


----------



## FranQL

Toom said:


> The Fiio EM5s continue to impress me. I wonder if the reason they are not mentioned more here is due to their price? Yet they are actually really cheap when compared to most of the IEMs discussed here at Head-fi, so I am more than happy to pay this.
> 
> Seems a bit of a disjunct between this earphone niche, with its "Hey I got 12 new Chi-fi earbuds for $0.50 all in." and the IEM crew with their "Hey I got this 12 driver Lithuanian IEM carved out of pure unobtanium and it was so affordable at $5k."



I don't have EM5 fiio, but iem or bud, € 250 is at least a very important effort for me / my economy. On the other hand, regardless of the budget, at least I do not see the sense of accumulating iems or in this case buds, I pursue more the objective of using them to listen to music.


----------



## Toom

palestofwhite said:


> Do the EM5 have good low ends? I'm seriously considering ordering a pair of these the weather is getting a bit too warm for headphones around these parts...



Yes, very impressive, given the limitations of buds vs headphones or iems.  Use outside might be a no-go though, unless worn under a hat, given their open nature.


----------



## jant71

Toom said:


> The Fiio EM5s continue to impress me. I wonder if the reason they are not mentioned more here is due to their price? Yet they are actually really cheap when compared to most of the IEMs discussed here at Head-fi, so I am more than happy to pay this.
> 
> Seems a bit of a disjunct between this earphone niche, with its "Hey I got 12 new Chi-fi earbuds for $0.50 all in." and the IEM crew with their "Hey I got this 12 driver Lithuanian IEM carved out of pure unobtanium and it was so affordable at $5k."



Hard not to notice people want the isolation and heck even noise cancelling so open buds are not the popular kid. EM5 are not popular due to both price combined with a fixed cable which is something that is a deal breaker for many.

 I think you are wrong and most of the IEMs talked about are in that range since the majority of people don't have a lot of money esp. right now. The Fiio brother FD5 is talked about, LZ A7, IE 300, MT300, DM8, Tea, H40, etc. Think there is still more talk of budget than the expensive ones as well. More talk about Blon's than A8000 and Luna. Of course reviews for that stuff maybe be more elaborate and the companies posting more about that expensive stuff as well but real talk is mostly that $300 price and below.


----------



## mtl171

Toom said:


> Seems a bit of a disjunct between this earphone niche, with its "Hey I got 12 new Chi-fi earbuds for $0.50 all in." and the IEM crew with their "Hey I got this 12 driver Lithuanian IEM carved out of pure unobtanium and it was so affordable at $5k."


Most definitely. The price bracket differences is huge! Someone posted earlier that $50-100 gets you midfi buds, while $100-300 is hifi buds. And we all know that $300 barely scratches midfi as far as IEMs go... I kind of hope we get more EM5 competitors to drive competition. Even if it doesn't get the price down, itll be nice to at least have comparisons as to how things sound.



jant71 said:


> I think you are wrong and most of the IEMs talked about are in that range since the majority of people don't have a lot of money esp. right now. The Fiio brother FD5 is talked about, LZ A7, IE 300, MT300, DM8, Tea, H40, etc. Think there is still more talk of budget than the expensive ones as well. More talk about Blon's than A8000 and Luna. Of course reviews for that stuff maybe be more elaborate and the companies posting more about that expensive stuff as well but real talk is mostly that $300 price and below.


I definitely agree. Though that otherhand that Z1R thread is getting lengthy   I do think its easy to get swept up in expensive stuff especially as you see pricey stuff discussion float to the top of more recent threads. <$300 chifi iems have gotten really good in the last 2 years or so. Like I still remember when <$100 got you either ridiculously V shaped or muddy sounding IEMs, with $300 being acceptable/good. And now <$100 is a huge value proposition and easily good or even great sounding (minus technicalities), while <$300 gets you 90% the tone of a TOTL and 80-90% of the technicalities.


----------



## furyossa

I don't know why you keep trying to compare "sharks" and "dolphins" over and over again.
They both swim in the ocean, but they're totally different species.

 vs


----------



## mtl171 (Jan 26, 2021)

furyossa said:


> I don't know why you keep trying to compare "sharks" and "dolphins" over and over again.
> They both swim in the ocean, but they're totally different species.
> 
> vs


'Cause I want to own the best sharks and dolphins, but my wallet can only afford fish 

Joking aside, I do feel its a topic worth discussing especially with new people entering the thread being more familiar with IEM pricing. At the end of the day, most of us in this thread are chasing price to performance. I just hope that future competition in the earbud space can help us more bang for our buck.

Edit: added thoughts


----------



## furyossa

Nemo  And what about whales , you don't like them?
Then buy a boat and go hunting for swordfish


----------



## Sam L

Toom said:


> Yes, very impressive, given the limitations of buds vs headphones or iems.  Use outside might be a no-go though, unless worn under a hat, given their open nature.


I don't disagree but if a user is coming from IEMs with good bass response, the EM5 has noticeable sub-bass roll-off. The quantity of the mid bass isn't better than many iems either. The standout quality of the mid-bass is the speed and resolution for an earbud, which is excellent. The EM5 is, so far for me, the only earbud that measures with a mid bass hump resembling most earbuds BUT has no bloom into the lower mids. 

Lastly, I would mention that the stock tuning might not be what users are looking for when coming from headphones or IEMs, which would explain @Alex.Grimm sharing that a number of people he knows find the EM5 lackluster. I'm my case, I run one of my compensation files most of the time when I'm listening to the EM5 which makes them unparalleled in my limited experience (but I'm getting more and more exposed to earbuds!) After I get a new job, one of the reasons that I'll be buying higher end earbuds is to broaden my understanding of what is available in the $300 range for earbuds in terms of sound quality.


----------



## Sam L

ok last post of the morning. dragging my feet before getting on with the morning.

I've been listening to the Tmusic beryllium black version for the last hour (plastic, not the wood one) and they compensate exceptionally well to my v1.5 target. Excellent bass, good clarity and resolution across the FR, excellent sound stage, cable is very similar to the really thin cables of the blon bl03, but for earbuds I appreciate how light and supple they are (not to mention they handle torsional manipulation well.)

One of the sub $10 standouts for earbuds that EQ well.


----------



## FranQL

mtl171 said:


> 'Cause I want to own the best sharks and dolphins, but my wallet can only afford fish
> 
> Joking aside, I do feel its a topic worth discussing especially with new people entering the thread being more familiar with IEM pricing. At the end of the day, most of us in this thread are chasing price to performance. I just hope that future competition in the earbud space can help us more bang for our buck.
> 
> Edit: added thoughts



Well, I found the iem I wanted so I finished that search (B2), it is true that I keep browsing the budget iems, but I'm not looking for anything else. of buds, well I have no idea, so here I am. More lost than a cat in a parking lot.


----------



## Sam L

FranQL said:


> Well, I found the iem I wanted so I finished that search (B2), it is true that I keep browsing the budget iems, but I'm not looking for anything else. of buds, well I have no idea, so here I am. More lost than a cat in a parking lot.


There are a number of us that wandered into this thread during the pandemic and haven't been able to leave. Welcome to this world of wonder! I'm drinking a cup of coffee and still can't believe the value you can get for a number of buds that are cheaper than this coffee. At this very moment, I'm listening to the Tmusic buds I picked up for just under $10. After compensation, these sound so incredibly headphone-like it's just mind-blowing. My last iem purchase was the LZ A7 (awesome iems) and this earbud has better staging than the A7.


----------



## Sam L

ok... that was my last post of the morning.  lol... trying to get Supremus status.


----------



## mtl171

Sam L said:


> I've been listening to the Tmusic beryllium black version for the last hour (plastic, not the wood one) and they compensate exceptionally well to my v1.5 target. Excellent bass, good clarity and resolution across the FR, excellent sound stage, cable is very similar to the really thin cables of the blon bl03, but for earbuds I appreciate how light and supple they are (not to mention they handle torsional manipulation well.)
> 
> One of the sub $10 standouts for earbuds that EQ well.


I'm very intrigued by the claim of beryllium drivers for under $10. Plus the wood version looks neato. How do you like it compared to the EQ'ed datura pro?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 26, 2021)

mtl171 said:


> At the end of the day, most of us in this thread are chasing price to performance. I just hope that future competition in the earbud space can help us more bang for our buck.


Either that or seeking "comfort" to include reduced listening fatigue.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 26, 2021)

Sam L said:


> There are a number of us that wandered into this thread during the pandemic and haven't been able to leave. Welcome to this world of wonder! I'm drinking a cup of coffee and still can't believe the value you can get for a number of buds that are cheaper than this coffee. At this very moment, I'm listening to the Tmusic buds I picked up for just under $10. After compensation, these sound so incredibly headphone-like it's just mind-blowing. My last iem purchase was the LZ A7 (awesome iems) and this earbud has better staging than the A7.


TMusic 32ohm Bery?
I tried many good drivers with simple PU diaphragm (low and high impedance) but also drivers with different coating.
If these layers are done the right way and if the driver is given more attention when tuning, the performance of these drivers is really impressive and this is most noticeable with drivers with a higher impedance. All DIYers already knows that.
Some sellers on Ali which sale DIY parts, from time to time they assemble a few models, such as the TMusic Bery for example, and sell it at a very reasonable price.
This provides an opportunity for all those who do not want to assemble their model, try the "exotic taste" of different types of drivers.

Let me show you a case where the difference between an assembled model vs. separate parts is not so negligible.
Me and @FranQL discussed this yesterday. This DIY model for example use 400ohm graphene driver (one of the best top3 DIY driver) and beautiful shell.
The price is around $60 which is the price range of several excellent branded models. This driver can reach a bit higher price range for sure.
Now let's take a look at how much each part costs separately if, say, we want to assemble the same model ourselves.
Note: Shell has your own matching housing for mmcx, so we need cable without connectors. Also, we have 3 color versions and 2 different size (for 14.8 and 15.4mm drivers)
We need 3 pats: Driver (~$20) + Shell (~$15) + Cable (~$5)  = $40. So we have $20 price difference for the assembly service.

What I noticed, when it comes to drivers with lower impedance, the price of the service is lower, the higher the impedance the price of the service is higher which makes no sense because the job is the same  What should be noted is that there is no QC here.
In general these drivers are not to be underestimated at all, and can be quite surprising with their sound, as @Sam_L noted
This is also one of the great advantages of earbuds because you will rarely see a case where one of the DIY sellers puts together some DIY IEM


----------



## furyossa

mtl171 said:


> I'm very intrigued by the claim of beryllium drivers for under $10. Plus the wood version looks neato. How do you like it compared to the EQ'ed datura pro?


Yup. This is 32ohm drive which is not strange. 130ohm is $15 and 600ohm is $35 (on sale). Just beautiful


----------



## chinmie

Sam L said:


> There are a number of us that wandered into this thread during the pandemic and haven't been able to leave.



i wandered to this thread early, since i joined this forum in 2016..haven't bought a new earbud for quite some time now because at the moment i think my wired earbuds collection is solid enough.. but still haven't been able to leave


----------



## 40760

Toom said:


> Yes, very impressive, given the limitations of buds vs headphones or iems.  Use outside might be a no-go though, unless worn under a hat, given their open nature.



Great... Seems like the EM5 will be it...


----------



## cappuchino

The Stellar has landed.

White w/ mic. *The mic's located on the splitter.

Came in a small box, with a KB Ear pouch and a pair of white foams. Listening to them right now...


----------



## nick n (Jan 26, 2021)

Alex.Grimm said:


> Yesterday I received *Edgun*. This is the same *EarC* earbud, only in other colors made for collaboration with Rholupat
> 
> 
> Spoiler


This is an old post of yours , wondering what you thought of the Edgun since there are no other posts about it I can find.
Is that the Edgun #1? Not the #2 ?

Thanks.


----------



## Sam L

mtl171 said:


> I'm very intrigued by the claim of beryllium drivers for under $10. Plus the wood version looks neato. How do you like it compared to the EQ'ed datura pro?


I'll have to AB them at some point, but in short, they are a more fun version of the Datura Pro eq'd. A smidge more bass but slower. The soundstage presents differently than the Datura Pro. I have to give it a critical listen to put my finger on it. From memory, I'd say the Tmusic bery eq'd is a tad wider in staging but not as layered as the Datura Pro.


----------



## Sam L (Jan 27, 2021)

Any recommendations for a budget pk type bud? Something under $15? (already have the b40)


----------



## cappuchino (Jan 27, 2021)

Sam L said:


> Any recommendations for a budget pk type bud? Something under $15? (already have the b40)


The B40 is the only one from the major companies as far as I'm aware.. Though, I haven't tried that one. Oh, there's also the Fengru DIY, but I've read before that it's quite bad.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Sam L said:


> Any recommendations for a budget pk type bud? Something under $15? (already have the b40)


*https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32922747759.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.3.75e06b12iz1a7s
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32473697186.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.11.34d06b12MSutXK
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32801646835.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.51.34d06b12MSutXK*


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> Any recommendations for a budget pk type bud? Something under $15? (already have the b40)


Top 5 rankings for 14.8mm drivers:
1. 150ohm "red film" (it's currently not on Ali but see this post)
2. 64ohm N55
3. 120ohm Bery
4. PK2
5. 40ohm Ti

There is also a 150ohm transparent film, and 32ohm "red film" but we do not know how it's ranked
DOCOMO PK2 from here is the best choice. You can pick Furukawa cable (these with Sennheiser plugs). Here is mini review


----------



## SiggyFraud

Does anyone have a link for the BK2? Wanted to check whether the black variant is available on AE (I have the silver one), but couldn't find any listings. Is it confirmed that they're out of production?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

SiggyFraud said:


> Does anyone have a link for the BK2? Wanted to check whether the black variant is available on AE (I have the silver one), but couldn't find any listings. Is it confirmed that they're out of production?


Unfortunately, no one's going to send you a link as the manufacturer is banned.


----------



## SiggyFraud

WoodyLuvr said:


> Unfortunately, no one's going to send you a link as the manufacturer is banned.


Fair enough. Please ignore my previous post.


----------



## baskingshark

New midfi priced earbud:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32838749143.html

*FENGRU HYCK100*

$75 USD

13.5 MM Double Dynamic driver unit

At least it has detachable cables unlike some TOTL earbuds!


----------



## rprodrigues (Jan 27, 2021)

Sam L said:


> Any recommendations for a budget pk type bud? Something under $15? (already have the b40)



It's a little above...
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mq2IWuH


----------



## zato23

baskingshark said:


> New midfi priced earbud:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32838749143.html
> 
> ...


Not new


----------



## baskingshark

zato23 said:


> Not new



U tried it? Can't find any reviews online so far.


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> New midfi priced earbud:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32838749143.html
> 
> ...


Similar model https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/paiaudio-prk1.html


----------



## OklahKekW

One of the few TOTL earbuds WITH detachable cables

https://penonaudio.com/rose-maria-ii.html


----------



## FranQL

OklahKekW said:


> One of the few TOTL earbuds WITH detachable cables
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/rose-maria-ii.html



It will sound like blessed glory, but it's a horror. only happens to me?


----------



## Sam L

Hey Everyone, 


OklahKekW said:


> One of the few TOTL earbuds WITH detachable cables
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/rose-maria-ii.html


I definitely curious about how these measure and sound and take EQ. 

I need to sell off something to fund the Maria II.

Anyone interested in the following items?
- Sony nw-A105 or the 
- Shuoer Tape Pro
- pristine condition Alienware 13inch r2 oled laptop? I never really used it because the screen is too small for my aging eyes.

I'm also willing to trade for any mid/top tier bud I don't have in my signature. I'm willing to add cash or take case on top of a cheaper bud. PM me if interested.


----------



## Sam L

oh my.... I feel like an idiot, making a really simple mistake for all my correction work. lol

Argh!!!!!

Bad News: I've uncovered a wrong assumption on my part that has negatively affected every file I've generated. 

Good News: Going forward my corrections are going to sound even better for a larger segment of the user base. If you thought my files didn't sound good and gave up on them, give me a couple weeks to fix everything and try again.


----------



## Sam L

baskingshark said:


> New midfi priced earbud:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32838749143.html
> 
> ...


I really like the look of those, very different from the typical shells out there. I'm wondering if anyone has one to share thoughts?


----------



## Sam L

furyossa said:


> Similar model https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/paiaudio-prk1.html


How do you come up with this kind of info? 

Do you look at sites for earbud models for hours a day? lol  
I love the dedication to the hobby. Thank you for your efforts


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> pristine condition Alienware 13inch r2 oled laptop? I never really used it because the screen is too small for my aging eyes


I don't use the screen even on my Predator 17x (17inch)  
You have a very good portable gem, and you can carry it wherever you want and attach it to any external monitor.
Don't tell me it's worth sacrificing Alienware for Maria 2


----------



## Sam L

furyossa said:


> Don't tell me it's worth sacrificing Alienware for Maria 2


Yes, it is. 

I'd obvious require a little cash on top of the maria 2 or 1st gen if someone wants that laptop. 

If someone is local to the SF Bay Area, I have a 2016 15" MacBook pro with less than 150 battery cycles on it for earbud trades as well.


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> I don't use the screen even on my Predator 17x (17inch)
> You have a very good portable gem, and you can carry it wherever you want and attach it to any external monitor.
> Don't tell me it's worth sacrificing Alienware for Maria 2



I think the same. No bud is worth getting rid of that team


----------



## Sam L

FranQL said:


> I think the same. No bud is worth getting rid of that team


You guy's priorities out of whack then... earbuds are life! j/k

The only reason, I'd consider trading away laptops is because I have a bunch of them from working at a bunch of early stage startups that didn't work out. Typically when I leave, the employer will take cash for the equipment they bought for me (at a large discount.) Sometimes, they just let me keep the stuff. I'm also nearing offers with a new job, so I figure when I start up with a new job, I'll get new equipment.

My primary laptop is an old Samsung laptop that I will keep only because it's worth nothing on the used market and still works will with my external gpu, not to mention it took quite a bit of experimenting to get AutoEQ working on it. 

I'd think you guys would be more supportive of my trade offers so I can get more buds to measure and compensate?


----------



## Sam L

Ok. I think this is it! Post number 1500. Supremus status?!?

I want to thank my family for allowing me to step away for hours to analyze earbuds and tweak my measurement rig. 
I also want to thank my wife for her support of my hobby.
And to all of you who have been so generous in reading my thoughts as I've been learning about earbuds. I appreciate all the "likes" to my posts, reinforcing that I'm not alone in trying to push the earbud format forward.

 

A little "tongue in cheek" but still, it's been a great time here in this thread through the better part of last year!


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> You guy's priorities out of whack then... earbuds are life! j/k


earbuds are life! .......... Ok earbuds ask for money and the laptop brings money!  I don’t want to discuss it anymore


Sam L said:


> I'd think you guys would be more supportive ...


How can you say that? That's not nice 
Congrats for 1.5K, mr. Supremus


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> Ok. I think this is it! Post number 1500. Supremus status?!?
> 
> I want to thank my family for allowing me to step away for hours to analyze earbuds and tweak my measurement rig.
> I also want to thank my wife for her support of my hobby.
> ...


You were waiting a long time for that title huh?   

meanwhile I just looked at my profile and damn almost 10k likes!


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> How do you come up with this kind of info?
> 
> Do you look at sites for earbud models for hours a day? lol
> I love the dedication to the hobby. Thank you for your efforts


photo-memory 
FENGRU HYCK100 is from the period when Ourart TI7 came out, Many inquired about it but to this day there is not much information
You already know that I constantly analyze the design of buds, so this model could not miss my radar  Astrotec and Paiaudio buds share similar look,
also, @baskingshark was looking for review, so...


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> You were waiting a long time for that title huh?
> 
> meanwhile I just looked at my profile and damn almost 10k likes!


You're ready to retire. That's it 
After 10K likes you will get "Instagram model" status


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> oh my.... I feel like an idiot, making a really simple mistake for all my correction work. lol
> 
> Argh!!!!!
> 
> ...


Can you explain what was the problem? In details please


----------



## RikudouGoku

Just noticed that the Yincrow RW2000 is cheaper than it was on launch.














But since it is 4 different stores and 4 different prices. Maybe it is just the sellers trying to undercut each other? Or is it cheaper now because no one is buying it?


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Just noticed that the Yincrow RW2000 is cheaper than it was on launch.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice. That's the real deal


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Nice. That's the real deal


I have no experience with that Gratituding store though. Got a bit interested in it seeing that price, but not a good idea to order it now though, with Chinese new year coming up. 

So best to wait for the March sale and see what happens then.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> I have no experience with that Gratituding store though. Got a bit interested in it seeing that price, but not a good idea to order it now though, with Chinese new year coming up.
> 
> So best to wait for the March sale and see what happens then.


Gratituding store also sales DIY parts incredibly cheap so I'm not surprised by this price for Yincrow either. So far I haven't bought anything from them but I don't think there will be any problems. They've been on Ali for a long time


----------



## nick n (Jan 28, 2021)

Some good info over at Player.ru thought I would check in again and see what has been talked about.
I'll admit it I did enjoy some of the technical cable talk as well.

*Earbuds thread #3 =   http://player.ru/showthread.php?t=230612*

Of course Alex and Golov are there ( is RU_FROST also here at Head-Fi under a different name? I got that impression ).
Last night I read from page 150 to the end at page 267 using Translation.
This is the 3rd thread there and most recent so I figured start there within about the past year to see what was going on.
I did manage to find *one* other reference by @Alex.Grimm mentioning the Edgun in a list of bass oriented earbuds. 
It was a fun read, long but fun and worthwhile I thought.

Please resume normal programming...


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> I have no experience with that Gratituding store though. Got a bit interested in it seeing that price, but not a good idea to order it now though, with Chinese new year coming up.
> 
> So best to wait for the March sale and see what happens then.





furyossa said:


> Gratituding store also sales DIY parts incredibly cheap so I'm not surprised by this price for Yincrow either. So far I haven't bought anything from them but I don't think there will be any problems. They've been on Ali for a long time



Gratituding store is the same as the CKLewis store on Aliexpress. They mostly deal with earbuds. If u click the "business license" at the top left hand corner (first click on their store name), these 2 shops have identical addresses in the business license

 A common tactic in Aliexpress actually, the same address open many shops under different names, but the address is the same and the items sold are similar. Kind of to not put all the eggs in one basket in case of bad reviews or something.

I've not tried the Gratituding store before but during the bad period in the early covid outbreak when logistics went to hell, I didn't get a few earbuds I bought from CKLewis, but their rep refunded me fully quite promptly.


----------



## 40760 (Jan 27, 2021)

Just when I thought I decided on the EM5... I made the mistake of backtracking a couple of pages of this thread:

Yincrow RW-2000
Yincrow RW-1000 Bass Boosted Version
TONEKING Dendroaspis Viridis
VE Zen 2.0
VE Zen LL SL edition
VE Sun

Decisions, decisions...


----------



## mochill

Get em5


----------



## 40760

mochill said:


> Get em5



Can you share more about your experience with the EM5?


----------



## Sam L

palestofwhite said:


> Can you share more about your experience with the EM5?


Have you already dialed in the driver/shell size that fits you best? Are there other earbuds you've tried?


----------



## mochill

palestofwhite said:


> Can you share more about your experience with the EM5?


I will get it


----------



## slex

Question: Has anyone tried this silicone full cover for earbuds? If so, any pros or cons?


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> Gratituding store is the same as the CKLewis store on Aliexpress. They mostly deal with earbuds. If u click the "business license" at the top left hand corner (first click on their store name), these 2 shops have identical addresses in the business license
> 
> A common tactic in Aliexpress actually, the same address open many shops under different names, but the address is the same and the items sold are similar. Kind of to not put all the eggs in one basket in case of bad reviews or something.
> 
> I've not tried the Gratituding store before but during the bad period in the early covid outbreak when logistics went to hell, I didn't get a few earbuds I bought from CKLewis, but their rep refunded me fully quite promptly.


CKLewis store is ok. I order fom them couple of times and everiting was flawless


----------



## furyossa

slex said:


> Question: Has anyone tried this silicone full cover for earbuds? If so, any pros or cons?


Pros: none
Cons: block the sound more than it should


----------



## slex

furyossa said:


> Pros: none
> Cons: block the sound more than it should


Ok.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 27, 2021)

slex said:


> Question: Has anyone tried this silicone full cover for earbuds? If so, any pros or cons?





furyossa said:


> Pros: none
> Cons: block the sound more than it should



*Pros:* _Silicon covers (full/donut/ring) may provide a securer fit in your ear and/or better secure foam covers on slippery metal type shelled earbuds._

*Cons: *_Full silicon covers like these do tend to muffle/veil the sound badly as *@furyossa *has stated; although typically hypoallergenic silicon can be quite sweaty/slimy feeling in tropical environments so I personally completely avoid using silicon rings or donuts in most cases._


----------



## cappuchino

Anyone know the cheapest DAC/Amp to drive high impedance earphones? Like, say, the QIGOM S300?


----------



## slex

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Pros:* _Silicon covers (full/donut/ring) may provide a securer fit in your ear and/or better secure foam covers on slippery metal type shelled earbuds._
> 
> *Cons: *_Full silicon covers like these do tend to muffle/veil the sound badly as *@furyossa *has stated; although typically hypoallergenic silicon can be quite sweaty/slimy feeling in tropical environments so I personally completely avoid using them in most cases._


True, wish there were donuts Xelastec materials that grip and adhere better to skin.


----------



## cappuchino (Jan 28, 2021)

Oh, maannn I'm loving the Stellars!!! It's the only bud I've tried that doesn't make me miss the bass of IEMs. Granted, I've only tried four, but those were fairly praised ones (MS16, Red Vido, K's Nameless, and now the Stellar). BUT, these have recessed mids/vocals and below average soundstage. Understandable, since it's a V-shaped. For the lowest I've seen these at 2.58 USD (I got these with a discount,, thanks @WendyLi !!), looking like a keeper for me. I'll be posting my write-up after a few more days.


----------



## 40760 (Jan 28, 2021)

Sam L said:


> Have you already dialed in the driver/shell size that fits you best? Are there other earbuds you've tried?



I'm one of those lucky ear types that can take most earbud designs. My favorite being the MX500 shell.

The heaviest earbuds I had was the Moondrop Liebesleid or ATH-CM2000Ti and the most comfortable being the Shozy BK or SWD2+.

I'm looking for that experience I had with the Zen Omega Edition that was discontinued. Technically the other TOTL are better in their own ways but the huge expansive sound of the ZOE is something I really miss. You can also almost feel the lows and overall sound which to me is very unique. Till today I can't find something similar, besides the K's Samsara which was almost there, but could be better. I really want that BIG sound.


----------



## Sam L

palestofwhite said:


> I'm one of those lucky ear types that can take most earbud designs. My favorite being the MX500 shell.
> 
> The heaviest earbuds I had was the Moondrop Liebesleid or ATH-CM2000Ti and the most comfortable being the Shozy BK or SWD2+.
> 
> I'm looking for that experience I had with the Zen Omega Edition that was discontinued. Technically the other TOTL are better in their own ways but the huge expansive sound of the ZOE is something I really miss. You can also almost feel the lows and overall sound which to me is very unique. Till today I can't find something similar, besides the K's Samsara which was almost there, but could be better. I really want that BIG sound.


Looks like you have tried quite a few buds, including higher tier buds. I'd msg ClieOS and ask him for recommendations. He basically has every bud made in his collection.


----------



## 40760

Sam L said:


> Looks like you have tried quite a few buds, including higher tier buds. I'd msg ClieOS and ask him for recommendations. He basically has every bud made in his collection.



Yes I have. I think I've bothered him enough in the past. Just that I was out of touch with the earbuds game for the past year or so, I want to switch back from headphones to earbuds due to the climate getting uncomfortably warmer and humid around these parts.


----------



## kakaworu (Jan 28, 2021)

sub30 said:


> Anyone know the cheapest DAC/Amp to drive high impedance earphones? Like, say, the QIGOM S300?


I have these 300ohm drivers from QIGOM official store on Taobao. I guess they are the same ones in S300.
DIY built a short-stem MX500 balanced set.
I drive them with ES100 2.5mm balanced output and I think it controls them well. I mean, at least I didn't hear any distortion.
But seems like the drivers themselves have more bass to mids presence. A bit recessed upper mids.
I am feeling male vocal closer than female vocal. And there is some kind of resonance with plastic shells --not pleasant kinds.
Not very natural sounding for my ears. I'm going to try them with metal shells later.
The quality control is good though. Channel matching nearly perfect.


----------



## Sam L

kakaworu said:


> I have these 300ohm drivers from QIGOM official store on Taobao. I guess they are the same ones in S300.
> DIY built a short-stem MX500 balanced set.
> I drive them with ES100 2.5mm balanced output and I think it controls them well. I mean, at least I didn't hear any distortion.
> But seems like the drivers themselves have more bass to mids presence. A bit recessed upper mids.
> ...


Curious, how are you determining channel variance? By ear or measuring them?


----------



## kakaworu (Jan 28, 2021)

Sam L said:


> Curious, how are you determining channel variance? By ear or measuring them?


I have a measurement rig with 3D printed adapter for earbuds. It may not be the most accurate but it measures quite consistently.


----------



## Sam L (Jan 28, 2021)

Any Rambo 2 owners running premium wavelet? I have a file to test. Private message me. NM just jump on my thread. I posted a test file and some addition info targeting a basshead profile for the rambo 2. There's borderline legit sub-bass with these settings.

**edit** ok... we have sub-bass. I just listened to the bass drop in Kill Jill and it's frighteningly strong.


----------



## earfanatic

Hello,

I use the Auglamour RX1, and am looking for a bud with more clarity. I want better overall.
EM5 is out of budget. I consider the **** PT2021 - find no reviews yet- and the Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis.
Both are in the same price now.
Do You have any recommendation? I would use it in bed, and I don twant it to extrude much than the RX1.
RX1 fits in my ear well with donut foam, but maybe the Toneking is bigger diameter?
Also I have trouble with cables, always gets sticky outside, so I prefer trying a removable cable.


----------



## Sam L (Jan 28, 2021)

kakaworu said:


> I have a measurement rig with 3D printed adapter for earbuds. It may not be precised but it measures quite consistently.


Do you have access to an android 9+ device and any of the buds in my signature?


----------



## Sam L

earfanatic said:


> Hello,
> 
> I use the Auglamour RX1, and am looking for a bud with more clarity. I want better overall.
> EM5 is out of budget. I consider the **** PT2021 - find no reviews yet- and the Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis.
> ...


If you're open to EQ, check this post out.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 28, 2021)

kakaworu said:


> I have these 300ohm drivers from QIGOM official store on Taobao. I guess they are the same ones in S300.
> DIY built a short-stem MX500 balanced set.
> I drive them with ES100 2.5mm balanced output and I think it controls them well. I mean, at least I didn't hear any distortion.
> But seems like the drivers themselves have more bass to mids presence. A bit recessed upper mids.
> ...


I talk about that driver so many times on DIY Earbuds thread. BTW ... this topic is not for this thread. Anyway ...
300ohm N52 is the driver that has endured the most torture on my part and is still working. It's a mid-bass centric type with L-shape signature.
Why are U using two horseshoe black foams? Any particular reason? My suggestion would be to use only one on the shell.
And regarding distortion problems, that's the main reason why I don't use plastic shells for high impedance drivers
This is my posts related to this driver  *#1, #2, **#3*


----------



## Sam L

palestofwhite said:


> I'm one of those lucky ear types that can take most earbud designs. My favorite being the MX500 shell.
> 
> The heaviest earbuds I had was the Moondrop Liebesleid or ATH-CM2000Ti and the most comfortable being the Shozy BK or SWD2+.
> 
> I'm looking for that experience I had with the Zen Omega Edition that was discontinued. Technically the other TOTL are better in their own ways but the huge expansive sound of the ZOE is something I really miss. You can also almost feel the lows and overall sound which to me is very unique. Till today I can't find something similar, besides the K's Samsara which was almost there, but could be better. I really want that BIG sound.


I'm starting to sound like a broken record regarding compensating the Datura Pro... LOL   But there are others who have used my correction file here and we're all in agreement, the results are incredible. If you're open to EQ'ing your buds you can read some more detail regarding the EM5 as compared to the Datura Pro here.


----------



## earfanatic

Sam L said:


> If you're open to EQ, check this post out.



I only use my earbuds with my phone. Due to bad os updates, I reverted it to Android 8, so Wavelet is not compatible.
This device has a DTS audio enhancer I use, because it makes audio so alive I feel like using my full size cans.
I tried eq before but could not reproduce this, it has more magic than what I could do with eq.
But I feel with better buds, the more clarity this would be even more enjoyable.


----------



## cappuchino

Sam L said:


> I'm starting to sound like a broken record regarding compensating the Datura Pro... LOL   But there are others who have used my correction file here and we're all in agreement, the results are incredible. If you're open to EQ'ing your buds you can read some more detail regarding the EM5 as compared to the Datura Pro here.


Does it really reach flagship territory with compensation? If so, isn't that considered a giant killer for 20 USD? Now I'm having a hard time what my next purchase should be - the Datura Pro or a multi-driver IEM I still have yet to have...


----------



## furyossa

sub30 said:


> Does it really reach flagship territory with compensation? If so, isn't that considered a giant killer for 20 USD? Now I'm having a hard time what my next purchase should be - the Datura Pro or a multi-driver IEM I still have yet to have...


Yes. I wouldn’t really go that far with the comparison. DaturoPro of course


----------



## Sam L

sub30 said:


> Does it really reach flagship territory with compensation? If so, isn't that considered a giant killer for 20 USD? Now I'm having a hard time what my next purchase should be - the Datura Pro or a multi-driver IEM I still have yet to have...


I'm not sure because the only higher tier bud I have is the EM5. I plan on getting the Maria 2 next, after I sell some equipment or get a job. I don't think there a single head-fier who's listened to the compensated Datura Pro and wasn't shocked at the results.


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> I only use my earbuds with my phone. Due to bad os updates, I reverted it to Android 8, so Wavelet is not compatible.
> This device has a DTS audio enhancer I use, because it makes audio so alive I feel like using my full size cans.
> I tried eq before but could not reproduce this, it has more magic than what I could do with eq.
> But I feel with better buds, the more clarity this would be even more enjoyable.


We share the same problem (Android 8)


----------



## Sam L

sub30 said:


> Does it really reach flagship territory with compensation? If so, isn't that considered a giant killer for 20 USD? Now I'm having a hard time what my next purchase should be - the Datura Pro or a multi-driver IEM I still have yet to have...


Honestly, I'd go for the datura pro unless fit is an issue.


----------



## Sam L

sub30 said:


> Anyone know the cheapest DAC/Amp to drive high impedance earphones? Like, say, the QIGOM S300?


Walnut f2? Puts out an unbelievable 4.2w rms.


----------



## cappuchino

Sam L said:


> Honestly, I'd go for the datura pro unless fit is an issue.


Awesome!



Sam L said:


> Walnut f2? Puts out an unbelievable 4.2w rms.


Say, what would you choose in a scenario where you don't have an amp, nor any high impedance gear - the F2 or the Datura Pro? But you do have an iPhone 5s. Which is more logical?


----------



## furyossa

sub30 said:


> Awesome!
> 
> 
> Say, what would you choose in a scenario where you don't have an amp, nor any high impedance gear - the F2 or the Datura Pro? But you do have an iPhone 5s. Which is more logical?


You are really persistent in asking difficult questions  it would be more logical to buy a good device first, it really means a lot if you are already in this hobby. 
You can buy buds later.


----------



## cappuchino

furyossa said:


> You are really persistent in asking difficult questions  it would be more logical to buy a good device first, it really means a lot if you are already in this hobby.
> You can buy buds later.


Hehe sorry 😅 Guess I really need to get that amp. Thanks for answering my questions!


----------



## cappuchino (Jan 28, 2021)

I've been listening to the Stellar for the whole day and am close to finishing my write-up. Spoiler: It's REALLY GOOD.

@Sam L these just destroyed the Nameless (stock), particularly in the bass. It's so tight, controlled, and textured. Can't wait for yours to arrive to generate that file 😂


Update: Currently running double foam - more bass quantity without drowning mids and noticeable decrease/smoothening of treble. These feel better than single foam for me and you don't feel the edge of the driver/shell. Not yet sure which set-up I like.


----------



## rprodrigues

Sam L said:


> I'm not sure because the only higher tier bud I have is the EM5. I plan on getting the Maria 2 next, after I sell some equipment or get a job. I don't think there a single head-fier who's listened to the compensated Datura Pro and wasn't shocked at the results.


 
Do Rambo II reach the same level than Datura Pro when using your compensation ?


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> Do Rambo II reach the same level than Datura Pro when using your compensation ?


Did you try these files here?


----------



## rprodrigues

furyossa said:


> Did you try these files here?



I don't like to EQ but I'd like to know how a TOTL sounds (without paying for it ).

I will try Sam L's compensation for my poor Rambo II, but I have problems with their fit, so the Datura Pro could be a good  alternative.


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> I don't like to EQ but I'd like to know how a TOTL sounds (without paying for it ).
> 
> I will try Sam L's compensation for my poor Rambo II, but I have problems with their fit, so the Datura Pro could be a good  alternative.


I understand. You have D.P. also?


----------



## rprodrigues

furyossa said:


> I understand. You have D.P. also?



Not yet, but I'm considering buying them if they can get a better sound (than Rambo II) once compensated.


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> Not yet, but I'm considering buying them if they can get a better sound (than Rambo II) once compensated.


Rambo II have better stock sound for sure but EQ-ed...probably not. Wait @Sam_L for confirmation


----------



## mtl171

sub30 said:


> Does it really reach flagship territory with compensation? If so, isn't that considered a giant killer for 20 USD? Now I'm having a hard time what my next purchase should be - the Datura Pro or a multi-driver IEM I still have yet to have...


I mean it depends on what IEM your thinking 😬 I appreciate the tone more then on my KZ ZS7 (it’s way more consistent sounding) and the technicalities are better then some of the <$50 IEMs I have.


----------



## galgofa (Jan 28, 2021)

Del


----------



## earfanatic

galgofa said:


> What you think about **** PT2021 ? Is it worth to try to ?


That one I am interested too. But not enough sold to have a proper review. I wander why.


----------



## Sam L

rprodrigues said:


> Do Rambo II reach the same level than Datura Pro when using your compensation ?


In short, no. The Datura Pro compensated is special because the level of transformation is remarkable. The problem a number of us have in describing what happens with the Datura pro when compensated is that we don't have another example to reference as to how huge the change is. The change is nothing like any of us have experienced with tip rolling, cable swapping, changing earpads, removing filters, adding filters, etc. It's on a completely different level. 

@furyossa has a much deeper and broader depth of knowledge concerning all the various earbuds models and drivers out there and I think he summed it up best by describing the difference as a "cinderella transformation." I compiled the file from @cenizas' measurements (his rig measures identically to mine) before actually having the DP in my possession. I was a bit skeptical with @furyossa's assessment because I've known all along how much of an improvement my files can bring to buds. I know what to expect, so I thought @furyossa was just being a bit overly hyped with his first experience with my compensation target. He was not overly hyped. He was being truthful.

I will not say the DP is a TOTL bud with my file just yet because I don't have any TOTL buds (aside from the EM5). But what I can say is that the Datura Pro compensated is a very, very special bud at $26 shipped  I wrote a detailed, 3 way comparison between the Smabat s10s silver vs. the Datura Pro vs. the EM5 here.


----------



## Sam L

rprodrigues said:


> Not yet, but I'm considering buying them if they can get a better sound (than Rambo II) once compensated.


Just answered in my previous reply.

I'll add some more observations regarding the difference between the Rambo II vs the Datura Pro (DP) when both are compensated. By the way, the Datura fits much better than the Rambo II (R2) for me. the Rambo II always feels like they are going to fall out at any moment. I can't even use a higher quality cable on it because the added weight makes the fit even worse for me.

I'm not able to AB test the two buds carefully since I left the DP at home. I have the Rambo II with me though. So from memory:

- The bass on the R2 is cavernous. It's deeper, more resonant, and has more slam than the DP. The DP's bass, compared to the R2, sounds more balanced armature-ish than the R2.
- R2 is a smidge warmer in tonality compared to the DP
- DP is more extended and has better upper region resolution.
- R2 staging is deeper, DP staging is wider
- R2 has a smoother sound profile overall and sounds a bit more musical

The two are very different in sound after compensation, but the DP stands out more than the R2. That said, I still enjoy the R2 immensely for the above reasons. For the R2, the compensated sound justifies the cost, barely (in my opinion.)


----------



## RikudouGoku

earfanatic said:


> That one I am interested too. But not enough sold to have a proper review. I wander why.


They are banned here, so you wont see a review for them on this forum.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 28, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> They are banned here, so you wont see a review for them on this forum.


I warned you about that the other day. You see how easily someone gets caught


----------



## Sam L

sub30 said:


> I've been listening to the Stellar for the whole day and am close to finishing my write-up. Spoiler: It's REALLY GOOD.
> 
> @Sam L these just destroyed the Nameless (stock), particularly in the bass. It's so tight, controlled, and textured. Can't wait for yours to arrive to generate that file 😂
> 
> ...


Nice! I'm looking forward to receiving the Stellar's. I'm curious what the channel variance looks like since that can be an issue with mics.


----------



## Sam L (Jan 28, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Yes. I wouldn’t really go that far with the comparison. DaturoPro of course





sub30 said:


> Does it really reach flagship territory with compensation? If so, isn't that considered a giant killer for 20 USD? Now I'm having a hard time what my next purchase should be - the Datura Pro or a multi-driver IEM I still have yet to have...


We have to remember that it's really rather difficult to compare iems to earbuds, very much like comparing iems to headphones. I'm sure if you ask the community at large which is better, the final audio a8000 or Focal Clear or something pricier like the Abyss AB-1266, opinions will be all over the place. I do think that DD IEMs are surging with tons of great options but you'd have to spend at least double the Datura Pro to get something comparable. Recently I got the Penon Fan, which I like tons better than the Tape Pro I got from the 11/11 sale. The compensated Datura Pro are the peers of either of these IEMs, which cost much more.


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> We have to remember that it's really rather difficult to compare iems to earbuds, very much like comparing iems to headphones. I'm sure if you ask the community at large which is better, the final audio a8000 or Focal Clear or something pricier like the Abyss AB-1266, opinions will be all over the place. I do think that DD IEMs are surging with tons of great options but you'd have to spend at least double the Datura Pro to get something comparable. Recently I got the Penon Fan, which I like tons better than the Tape Pro I got from the 11/11 sale. The compensated Datura Pro are the peers of either of these IEMs, which cost much more.


Like I said earlier. It's the same as when you compare  vs  vs  each of them has its advantages and disadvantages. It's absurd to compare them by price.


----------



## mtl171

Sam L said:


> I do think that DD IEMs are surging with tons of great options but you'd have to spend at least double the Datura Pro to get something comparable. The compensated Datura Pro are the peers of either of these IEMs, which cost much more.


I'm going to disagree with this. The tone of these newer more neutral tuned $30 DD IEMs are really good stock, and technicality wise I'd say theyre about the same. Though I'm pretty sure if I bring up IEM comparisons one more time, furyossa might actually send a shark to my physical address


----------



## furyossa (Jan 28, 2021)

mtl171 said:


> I'm going to disagree with this. The tone of these newer more neutral tuned $30 DD IEMs are really good stock, and technicality wise I'd say theyre about the same. Though I'm pretty sure if I bring up IEM comparisons one more time, furyossa might actually send a shark to my physical address


Be careful what you wish for


----------



## cappuchino

Sam L said:


> We have to remember that it's really rather difficult to compare iems to earbuds, very much like comparing iems to headphones. I'm sure if you ask the community at large which is better, the final audio a8000 or Focal Clear or something pricier like the Abyss AB-1266, opinions will be all over the place. I do think that DD IEMs are surging with tons of great options but you'd have to spend at least double the Datura Pro to get something comparable. Recently I got the Penon Fan, which I like tons better than the Tape Pro I got from the 11/11 sale. The compensated Datura Pro are the peers of either of these IEMs, which cost much more.


Earbuds vs. IEMs comparison shouldn't really be done as they're both different beasts. The reason I mentioned that vs. is because I've only ever had single-DD IEMs and wanted to try something different.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 28, 2021)

sub30 said:


> Earbuds vs. IEMs comparison shouldn't really be done as they're both different beasts. The reason I mentioned that vs. is because I've only ever had single-DD IEMs and wanted to try something different.


Aha! ...So you're the reason. Ok send me your physical address, I have a "little" surprise for you too


----------



## cappuchino

furyossa said:


> Aha! ...So you're the reason. Ok send me your physical address, I have a "little" surprise for you too


HAHAHA! I guess I should really stop releasing these controversial statements/asking lots of questions...


----------



## mochill

How does the walnut f2 have 4.2watts , and how to you use that power?


----------



## Sam L

mtl171 said:


> I'm going to disagree with this. The tone of these newer more neutral tuned $30 DD IEMs are really good stock, and technicality wise I'd say theyre about the same. Though I'm pretty sure if I bring up IEM comparisons one more time, furyossa might actually send a shark to my physical address


I stand corrected. What are some examples of $30 single DD iems?


----------



## Sam L

Sam L said:


> I stand corrected. What are some examples of $30 single DD iems?


Oh nm. Haha I have the blon 03 and 01 but they aren't neutral.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> Oh nm. Haha I have the blon 03 and 01 but they aren't neutral.


I cant think of any 30 sub 30 usd iem that is neutral either. But a bit above that, you have the Tin Hifi T2 and HZ Heart mirror for example.

Although, technically the Moondrop spaceship (original, not SSR/SSP) does exist along with the Final Audio E1000. The spaceship isnt a good iem at all and the E1000 lacks quality but is tuned well. (both around 20 usd.)


----------



## mtl171

Sam L said:


> I stand corrected. What are some examples of $30 single DD iems?


Jade Audio EA1. Though it’s kind of cheating as it’s technically the Fiio FD1 ($60) but with worse packaging/accessories. You get a mild V shape with a nice extended bass, forward vocals, and a bit of treble sparkle.

some people really like the moondrop ssr and ssp (~$40) for a more neutral sound though I haven’t tried them personally.


----------



## rprodrigues

mtl171 said:


> Jade Audio EA1. Though it’s kind of cheating as it’s technically the Fiio FD1 ($60) but with worse packaging/accessories. You get a mild V shape with a nice extended bass, forward vocals, and a bit of treble sparkle.
> 
> some people really like the moondrop ssr and ssp (~$40) for a more neutral sound though I haven’t tried them personally.



SSR is a treble cannon.
It is among my worst iems.


----------



## 40760

After some contemplation, it seems like my best bet will be to get the EM5 from a local store as all the other online vendors are starting to close for the Chinese New Year holidays. Probably not the best time to buy from China now as shipping will be delayed.


----------



## cappuchino (Jan 29, 2021)

Here's my take on the KB Ear Stellar: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kbear-stellar.24668/review/25219/
----------
*Conclusion:*

For 2.58 USD, this is the only earbud I’ve listened to that works with mainstream pop, and for every genre for that matter. The others I have/had either suffer from little or too much bass quantity (specifically mid-bass). It’s the only bud I’ve listened to that doesn’t make me miss the bass from IEMs. With the very cheap price, you get the highly moddable MX500 shell and a V-shaped sound signature - textured bass and clean mids with decent technicalities for an earbud. It also doesn’t need recabling as the cable is serviceable as is. The mic is also very usable and is placed nicely - it has a play/pause button and volume control (there’s also another switch that somehow sucks the vocals which I don’t know the function of). You can nitpick a few things here and there like the slightly recessed vocals (personal preference), average soundstage and distortion at _really_ higher volumes, but it is important to consider how cheap these are. And if there’s something better out there, at what cost? Twice the price? That’s *a lot of money *when you’re living on the other side of the world. 
----------

Please, please, if you have the time to read, I would deeply appreciate it. I need all the feedback/criticism/suggestions I can receive so that I may improve my writing. Thanks, everyone! Keep safe!


----------



## earfanatic

Do You know why many earbuds have vent opening on the bottom of the driver shell? 
I have just discovered that with my RX1 put tightly in my left ear my skin covers both the bottom openings, cancelling any low frequency coming out the bud.
See this wiki page. The bottom of the earbud is all covered while the top is open to air. So why is the opening not on the top?


----------



## furyossa (Jan 29, 2021)

earfanatic said:


> Do You know why many earbuds have vent opening on the bottom of the driver shell?
> I have just discovered that with my RX1 put tightly in my left ear my skin covers both the bottom openings, cancelling any low frequency coming out the bud.
> See this wiki page. The bottom of the earbud is all covered while the top is open to air. So why is the opening not on the top?


Vent on the bottom is one of the worst possible solutions for earbuds which are not intended to be carried with the cable over the ear. The antitragus will in 90% of cases cover this vent. This solution is applied to small "nozzle" buds but because the shell is smaller, and they stand in the ear differently, this vent will remains open.
Side vents are always the best possible solution because even if one side is covered by the ear, the other will always remain open.


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> Vent on the bottom is one of the worst possible solutions for earbuds which are not intended to be carried with the cable over the ear. The antitragus will in 90% of cases cover this vent. This solution is applied to small "nozzle" buds but because the shell is smaller, and they stand in the ear differently, this vent will remains open.
> Side vents are always the best possible solution because even if one side is covered with the ear, the other will always remain open.



Well, the RX1 has two vents both side on the bottom.
But I have discovered that on the left bud any of the holes touched changes the sound. But on the right bud, touching one hole dows not do anything to the sound, but the other one.
Blocking both holes on the left bud equals blocking the working vent on the right. Normally I dont have a difference, but this is strange.
Maybe I should open it up and look why one side vent is blocked in the inside...


----------



## furyossa (Jan 29, 2021)

earfanatic said:


> Well, the RX1 has two vents both side on the bottom.
> But I have discovered that on the left bud any of the holes touched changes the sound. But on the right bud, touching one hole dows not do anything to the sound, but the other one.
> Blocking both holes on the left bud equals blocking the working vent on the right. Normally I dont have a difference, but this is strange.
> Maybe I should open it up and look why one side vent is blocked in the inside...


That's a smart idea, maybe the filter has moved, or it's only on one side.
Do it  Don’t forget to post some pictures of the interior.


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> That's a smart idea, maybe the filter has moved, or it's only on one side.
> Do it  Don’t forget to post some pictures of the interior.


yes, we will see soon


----------



## Wexe

Hello i ve mdr e 472 and 484 not a fan of mdr e888 et ourart acg want neutrality and detail need earbuds no money limit
I need advise thanks


----------



## Sam L

ok. I sold off my pixel 4xl so I have some funds to purchase either one top tier bud or a handful of mid/lower tier buds. What models do you want me to buy and compensate?


----------



## Sam L

Got a late start this morning.... but I'm ready to go! I love how this co-working space is empty.

First up in today's bunch is the Qian 39. I think this one compensates better than the Monk lite 120ohm. One of these days I'll have to do a detailed comparison.


----------



## Sam L (Jan 29, 2021)

mochill said:


> How does the walnut f2 have 4.2watts , and how to you use that power?


Yeah, I just heard about the walnut f2 the other day in the discovery thread. For a mobile cmoy amp, I have can't believe it puts out that kind of power for $25. I'm wondering if ASR measured it in the past.

I know @DBaldock9 has one. What's your experience been like?


----------



## thesheik137

Perfection.


----------



## BIG666

Wexe said:


> Hello i ve mdr e 472 and 484 not a fan of mdr e888 et ourart acg want neutrality and detail need earbuds no money limit
> I need advise thanks


HP V99 - CAX Black...but they sound a bit "analog". Another direction - I think - moondrop chaconne, maybe fiio em5 ... But in my opinion (if the sound of the E484 works for you) - then the next step is the V99 ... Obviously that’s just my opinion - everyone has different ears and tastes.


----------



## coflaes

BIG666 said:


> HP V99 - CAX Black...but they sound a bit "analog". Another direction - I think - moondrop chaconne, maybe fiio em5 ... But in my opinion (if the sound of the E484 works for you) - then the next step is the V99 ... Obviously that’s just my opinion - everyone has different ears and tastes.


How analog sound?


----------



## voxdub

I'm back using the RY4S (HI cable) as Smabat ST10s black gold developed fault on right driver after couple weeks use. I'd totally forgotten how warm these things are, but damn do they sound great for the money and (although I'm generally against EQ) can sound terrific with some adjustments to EQ. 

Now the wait begins for return of Smabats to China and replacement. Think I'll be back to compiling more budget buds, even though the Smabats sound really good.


----------



## mochill

coflaes said:


> How analog sound?


I'd recommend newbsound


----------



## Sam L

voxdub said:


> I'm back using the RY4S (HI cable) as Smabat ST10s black gold developed fault on right driver after couple weeks use. I'd totally forgotten how warm these things are, but damn do they sound great for the money and (although I'm generally against EQ) can sound terrific with some adjustments to EQ.
> 
> Now the wait begins for return of Smabats to China and replacement. Think I'll be back to compiling more budget buds, even though the Smabats sound really good.


I'm listening to the ry4s 300ohm right now, at this very moment!   They are warm stock but sadly are a tad congested in the lower mids. But great buds for the price, for sure.

I EQ this way, to increase soundstage and bring better clarity to the lower mids:

31 Hz Gain 7.4 dB 
62 Hz Gain -1.9 dB 
125 Hz Gain -8.0 dB 
250 Hz Gain -3.3 dB 
500 Hz Gain 0.5 dB 
1000 Hz Gain 1.3 dB 
2000 Hz Gain -0.9 dB 
4000 Hz Gain 7.9 dB


----------



## Sam L

Always interesting when manufacturers list the FR with this kind of range:


----------



## BIG666

coflaes said:


> How analog sound?


It’s not so much the absolutely small details (chair squeaking) that the thing wants to show - though you can hear it if you’re just paying attention - from the music, but rather a “big picture”. (I'm not a writer - it's hard to describe sound in words.)


----------



## furyossa

BIG666 said:


> It’s not so much the absolutely small details (chair squeaking) that the thing wants to show - though you can hear it if you’re just paying attention - from the music, but rather a “big picture”. (I'm not a writer - it's hard to describe sound in words.)


I'm curious how they look inside. I saw that HP-V16 has similar look but position of these two tubes are slightly above, on the stem. 
Are they used as a vent system or have some other purpose?


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> Got a late start this morning.... but I'm ready to go! I love how this co-working space is empty.
> 
> First up in today's bunch is the Qian 39. I think this one compensates better than the Monk lite 120ohm. One of these days I'll have to do a detailed comparison.


Nice space.  Now you can work in peace. 
_"Oh ... what do you have for lunch .... well couple of buds, Monk and RY4S are quite tasty, do U want to try"_ 
I see a sign on the left side of the table. I hope it's not this one


----------



## Alex.Grimm

nick n said:


> Of course Alex and Golov are there ( is RU_FROST also here at Head-Fi under a different name? I got that impression ).


Nice to hear that we are readen abroad @golov17 @RuFrost


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Jan 29, 2021)

nick n said:


> Is that the Edgun #1? Not the #2 ?


Its #1. But 1# and #2 have the same sound, but different colored.

Edgun sounds like Earbuds Anonymous, Faaeal Snow lotus 1plus, Edifier


----------



## hongky

Sam L said:


> ok. I sold off my pixel 4xl so I have some funds to purchase either one top tier bud or a handful of mid/lower tier buds. What models do you want me to buy and compensate?


Toneking Dendroaspis & Willsound PK32 

Thanks


----------



## nick n

Alex.Grimm said:


> Nice to hear that we are readen abroad @golov17 @RuFrost


^ I always find some very good info there... on a few earbuds it made some things very clear and helped me avoid a purchase or two.
Thanks.
I might be one of the few here who reads that place for info ( on fullsized stuff also ).
Translation tool is not great but you get to understand a few wierd words it gives 


Alex.Grimm said:


> Its #1. But 1# and #2 have the same sound, but different colored.
> 
> Edgun sounds like Earbuds Anonymous, Faaeal Snow lotus 1plus, Edifier


^ Ahh ok nice to know the #1 and #2 difference is only colour.
I will get to hear them soon enough.
I could not avoid them since it is a Rholupat tuned thing.


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> Always interesting when manufacturers list the FR with this kind of range:


I am more interested in the good ratio of the fourth and fifth items, and as far as item 6th is concerned, I'm just looking only at the FR for dolphins (3Hz-100kHz) 
I keep one here in the yard


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> ok. I sold off my pixel 4xl so I have some funds to purchase either one top tier bud or a handful of mid/lower tier buds. What models do you want me to buy and compensate?


Yincrow RW-2000


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Yincrow RW-2000


At the price we talked about the day before, this would be a very good recommendation. 
We haven't seen anything new in the top tier price range for a while, probably another interesting model will appear soon


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> At the price we talked about the day before, this would be a very good recommendation.
> We haven't seen anything new in the top tier price range for a while, probably another interesting model will appear soon


The RW-2000 is the most likely bud for me to get since I love both of their other iems (X6/RW-9) but I want more info on it, since I dont want it to be another turandot for me lol.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> The RW-2000 is the most likely bud for me to get since I love both of their other iems (X6/RW-9) but I want more info on it, since I dont want it to be another turandot for me lol.


I don't know about your experience with it, what happened? 
I was expecting similar performance from DLC drivers in earbuds, such as the BL-03, but I was totally disappointed with the BGVP DX5 model


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Sam L said:


> I'm listening to the ry4s 300ohm right now, at this very moment!   They are warm stock but sadly are a tad congested in the lower mids. But great buds for the price, for sure.
> 
> I EQ this way, to increase soundstage and bring better clarity to the lower mids:
> 
> ...


Do (should) you "auto-level" after setting the EQ?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 29, 2021)

furyossa said:


> I'm curious how they look inside. I saw that HP-V16 has similar look but position of these two tubes are slightly above, on the stem.
> Are they used as a vent system or have some other purpose?


Depending on the model, the Dream and Fantasy Bass Flute (Pipe-Phone) systems used either one or two resonating ducts (enhancement "pipes" aka "flutes") in various set-ups with various ports to thicken the bass and even to extend treble.

For example the dual pipe phone system (Duo Bass Boost Pipe Phone; Double Bass Flute) incorporated two ducts (pipes/flutes), a short resonator duct that came straight out the back of the head behind the driver and a longer resonator duct that went along and came out of the bottom of the stem. Both provided deeper, richer bass sound and extended the treble.

Aiwa used to detail these ducts in small diagrams along with the specifications on the back of the ear bud packaging... for the life of me I can't find an example of this at the moment but maybe someone else knows what I speak of and can provide a picture


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Depending on the model, the Dream and Fantasy Bass Flute (Pipe-Phone) systems used either one or two resonating ducts (enhancement "pipes" aka "flutes") in various set-ups to thicken the bass and even to extend treble.
> 
> For example the dual pipe phone system (Duo Bass Boost Pipe Phone; Double Bass Flute) incorporated two ducts (pipes/flutes), a short resonator duct that came straight out the back of the head behind the driver and a longer resonator duct that went along and came out of the bottom of the stem. Both provided deeper, richer bass sound and extended the treble.
> 
> Aiwa used to detail these ducts in small diagrams along with the specifications on the back of the ear bud packaging... for the life of me I can't find an example of this at the moment but maybe someone else knows what I speak of and can provide a picture


That would be fantastic. I am looking forward to it


----------



## Sam L

WoodyLuvr said:


> Do (should) you "auto-level" after setting the EQ?


I use a preamp value typically between - 7 to - 12 dB


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> I use a preamp value typically between - 7 to - 12 dB


For me -6dB is the sweet spot. I rarely go below -6dB (-3dB to -9dB)


----------



## 40760

Just got a good deal on the EM5 and pulled the trigger. Now the wait for it to arrive.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 29, 2021)

furyossa said:


> That would be fantastic. I am looking forward to it


Found an example!!!









*Aiwa HP-V151 Duo Bass Boost Pipe-Phone; August 1996-1998*



■ Diaphragm: 16mm
■ Impedance: 16Ω
■ Sensitivity: 107dB/mW
■ Frequency Response: 8-25,000Hz
■ Max Power Input: 50mW
Probably one of Aiwa's most famous earbuds!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Sam L said:


> I use a preamp value typically between - 7 to - 12 dB





furyossa said:


> For me -6dB is the sweet spot. I rarely go below -6dB (-3dB to -9dB)


So if no "preamp" option available would you recommend using "auto-level"?


----------



## DBaldock9

Sam L said:


> Yeah, I just heard about the walnut f2 the other day in the discovery thread. For a mobile cmoy amp, I have can't believe it puts out that kind of power for $25. I'm wondering if ASR measured it in the past.
> 
> I know @DBaldock9 has one. What's your experience been like?



I like my Walnut F2 as an Amp, and it sounds decent as a USB DAC, but wish it had a higher performance DAC chip in it - so that it could support files other than 16-Bit / 44.1 or 48-KHz .wav or .mp3.

I've modified mine - replaced the 4x JRC-4580 op-amps, with 4x MUSES-8920E, to drive the Single-Ended Output; and replaced the 2x DRV-134-UA Single Channel Differential Line Drivers, with SSM-2142-SZ, to drive the Balanced Output.  I also replaced the DIP-8 socket, and the two big electrolytic capacitors.


----------



## nick n (Jan 30, 2021)

Anybody familiar with the recent "T" designation on the MX500 variants ?
I knew of *regular*, and "*S*"  but seeing the new one am curious about the _"T" variants_.

I did search the thread here before posting this question yes   using various search terms, but turned up nothing.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Please check out the earbud timeline *here 
@furyossa* and I have expanded it considerably. Any/all corrections and/or suggestions/submissions most welcome!


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Found an example!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


@WoodyLuvr thank you very much. This is very useful information
It is really impressive how they managed to create a transmission line system in such a small space.
With this two resonator ducts they managed to balance the bass really nicely.
The only thing that bothers me about them right now is the thin cables with asymmetrical sides and the driver covers are loose.
But this is an easy fix. I will talk a little more about this model next time 
Also, I find this measurement. They have recessed upper mids. I'll do my measurements for my model after fix.


----------



## Sam L

Updated files for the Monk Plus, v1.5 bass and neutral targets here.

To be honest, I was overly harsh with my initial assessment of these buds in it's stock tuning. The mid bass bloom is obvious but it's not a bad bud and I can see why it's so popular over on the EA group on FB. EQ cleans it up nicely.


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> I don't know about your experience with it, what happened?
> I was expecting similar performance from DLC drivers in earbuds, such as the BL-03, but I was totally disappointed with the BGVP DX5 model


Well, to me the turandot is nothing close to TOTL. Bad timbre for a bud, tonality is way too bright, treble is boosted too much like typical chi-fi tuning. Bass is the best part but even that is actually a bit unclean. Yincrow X6 beats it in every way except technicalities...


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> Well, to me the turandot is nothing close to TOTL. Bad timbre for a bud, tonality is way too bright, treble is boosted too much like typical chi-fi tuning. Bass is the best part but even that is actually a bit unclean. Yincrow X6 beats it in every way except technicalities...



And non detachable cable too for the price!


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> And non detachable cable too for the price!


that too, even worse is when the shell is very heavy while the cable is super thin. Doesnt inspire faith in the durability lol. 

(I have actually reviewed it, but not on head-fi, the link is in my review section of my database.)


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Well, to me the turandot is nothing close to TOTL. Bad timbre for a bud, tonality is way too bright, treble is boosted too much like typical chi-fi tuning. Bass is the best part but even that is actually a bit unclean. Yincrow X6 beats it in every way except technicalities...


We often see this, that some cheaper models have better characteristics than more expensive models. We have to take into account that Yincrow company has been in this game for quite some time, so the experience should not be neglected
I don't know about your country, but in my country we say: the gold is not everything that shines.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 30, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> And non detachable cable too for the price!


Yes you are right, that is one of the downsides of that model.
It's not clear to me how the cables of these vintage buds, which are over 20 years old, have survived at all. Today's cables are superior in every way in terms of performance, but I can't say the same for durability.


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> We often see this, that some cheaper models have better characteristics than more expensive models. We have to take into account that Yincrow company has been in this game for quite some time, so the experience should not be neglected
> I don't know about your country, but in my country we say: the gold is not everything that shines.


I just find it ridiculous that something at this price with this performance is called TOTL, when the X6 exists at like 20x times cheaper.

This is why I am reallly hesitating to get more "TOTL" buds, as I am afraid that they all will just have worse tuning than the X6.


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> I just find it ridiculous that something at this price with this performance is called TOTL, when the X6 exists at like 20x times cheaper.
> 
> This is why I am reallly hesitating to get more "TOTL" buds, as I am afraid that they all will just have worse tuning than the X6.



IMHO, the diminishing returns from TOTL to budget/midfi level is very huge in this audio hobby, not just specifically for earbuds, but for sources and IEMs too. (We shan't talk about cables and their price to performance ratio, let's leave that for another day as it is a big can of worms haha).

The great thing about earbuds though, is the barrier to entry is low, as good sound can start as low as $10 or even less. And perhaps some can even find their endgame earbuds at below $20.


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> IMHO, the diminishing returns from TOTL to budget/midfi level is very huge in this audio hobby, not just specifically for earbuds, but for sources and IEMs too. (We shan't talk about cables and their price to performance ratio, let's leave that for another day as it is a big can of worms haha).
> 
> The great thing about earbuds though, is the barrier to entry is low, as good sound can start as low as $10 or even less. And perhaps some can even find their endgame earbuds at below $20.


Yeah, but in my experience the diminishing returns from earbuds is wayyyy bigger than it is for iems.

My endgame bud is the X6 lol. You need to get it already.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> I just find it ridiculous that something at this price with this performance is called TOTL, when the X6 exists at like 20x times cheaper.
> 
> This is why I am reallly hesitating to get more "TOTL" buds, as I am afraid that they all will just have worse tuning than the X6.


That is why you have a reason to explore more affordable models. 
To be honest I started researching and collecting vintage models. Some of them are affordable, but some rare ones are ultra expensive over $500. 
The ones I have currently belonged to the affordable group, the sound is pretty good but again a lot of chifi models definitely have better sound characteristics.
So it all comes down to the same thing, the only difference is that here we are comparing old and new technology


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> IMHO, the diminishing returns from TOTL to budget/midfi level is very huge in this audio hobby, not just specifically for earbuds, but for sources and IEMs too. (We shan't talk about cables and their price to performance ratio, let's leave that for another day as it is a big can of worms haha).
> 
> The great thing about earbuds though, is the barrier to entry is low, as good sound can start as low as $10 or even less. And perhaps some can even find their endgame earbuds at below $20.


 to that!


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> My endgame bud is the X6





baskingshark said:


> The great thing about earbuds though, is the barrier to entry is low, as good sound can start as low as $10 or even less. And perhaps some can even find their endgame earbuds at below $20.


HE150 (not PRO) were my endgame, but I accidentally damaged the driver while trying to replace the cable.  
They were canceled, so I missed the opportunity to buy a new pair.The Pro version is good but OG is better


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> HE150 (not PRO) were my endgame, but I accidentally damaged the driver while trying to replace the cable.
> They were canceled, so I missed the opportunity to buy a new pair.The Pro version is good but OG is better


Got the pro, its not good. Sharp treble and bass quality is worse than the X6.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Got the pro, its not good. Sharp treble and bass quality is worse than the X6.


Why does everyone mention the sharp treble? Apparently they put other drivers for newer production. I bought my model two years ago. Sub-bass is very good, 
and the treble is smooth and not offensive at all. Soundstage is above average


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Why does everyone mention the sharp treble? Apparently they put other drivers for newer production. I bought my model two years ago. Sub-bass is very good,
> and the treble is smooth and not offensive at all. Soundstage is above average


Then they must have changed something, because that treble is not good and timbre is not good either.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Then they must have changed something, because that treble is not good and timbre is not good either.


Did you buy your pair from here? Probably they change something, tuning or driver. I know that many complained of smooth treble, so maybe they changed the tuning.
See OG have different driver then PRO. Timber is way better and sounstage is more defined as well as imaging


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Did you buy your pair from here? Probably they change something, tuning or driver. I know that many complained of smooth treble, so maybe they changed the tuning.
> See OG have different driver then PRO. Timber is way better and sounstage is more defined as well as imaging


Honestly, I totally forgot where I bought it from lol.


----------



## baskingshark

furyossa said:


> Did you buy your pair from here? Probably they change something, tuning or driver. I know that many complained of smooth treble, so maybe they changed the tuning.
> See OG have different driver then PRO. Timber is way better and sounstage is more defined as well as imaging



FWIW my HE150 Pro is about a year old, I bought from Penon. It is a very V shaped set, needs amping as per the 150 ohm impedance. Bass is copious for a earbud, but I do find the upper mids/lower treble hot and sibilant. This is especially so at louder volumes (Fletcher Munson curve). The non detachable cable is also noodle thin, so I don't really like this set, but perhaps they did change the drivers/tuning secretly. That is quite a common tactic used in CHIFI!


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Honestly, I totally forgot where I bought it from lol.


Thank you for your honesty  You are good. I won't ask you next time to avoid a problem


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Thank you for your honesty  You are good. I won't ask you next time to avoid a problem


Took the 150pro and tried it on my Asgard 3. Bass is good for a bud, but not in the same league as the X6. Mids are recessed, treble can get sharp. Timbre is not good for a bud and tonality is a bit off.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 30, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> FWIW my HE150 Pro is about a year old, I bought from Penon. It is a very V shaped set, needs amping as per the 150 ohm impedance. Bass is copious for a earbud, but I do find the upper mids/lower treble hot and sibilant. This is especially so at louder volumes (Fletcher Munson curve). The non detachable cable is also noodle thin, so I don't really like this set, but perhaps they did change the drivers/tuning secretly. That is quite a common tactic used in CHIFI!


I don’t even want to start a topic about cable. It's the worst of them all. It gets tangled very easily. Many times I wanted to replace it but from experience with the previous model I gave up.
BTW.. I forgot to mention, there is a model on Ali by FENGRU, HE150 but is not the same driver as the PENON version.


----------



## baskingshark (Jan 30, 2021)

furyossa said:


> I don’t even want to start a topic about cable. It's wort of all. It gets tangled very easily. Many times I wanted to replace it but from experience with the previous model I gave up.
> BTW.. I forgot to mention, there is a model on Ali by FENGRU, HE150 but is not the same driver as the PENON version.



Ah that could possibly be the issue. Different drivers can definitely skew the sound, kind of like the Urbanfun YBF-ISS014 having "noble" metal versus beryllium drivers, where they sound different! I know Fengru also makes the TC200 earbud, which is also sold as Tingo TC200. I never got why the TC200 is hyped to the moon on some facebook sites as I found my TC200 very meh, but perhaps it was from a different batch (unit variance?) or even made by a different OEM company?

KZ ZS6 also had a stealth retuning as people complained the first batch was too harsh in the treble, so I won't be surprised if some CHIFI do this too (stealth retuning or stealth driver change). The KBEAR F1 amazingly was found to have 3 - 4 different drivers inside! I think Slater did photograph the driver types and serial numbers in the Chinese brand thread previously.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 30, 2021)

Yup. I feel the same way about TC200. TC400 (fake) is the worst. Tingo TG-38s (also fake) is the best in this lineup. On this link they use picture of OG.
TG-38s (fake) has similar but softer cable then TC200. Who knows how much better is the original.


baskingshark said:


> Different drivers can definitely skew the sound, kind of like the Urbanfun YBF-ISS014 having "noble" metal versus beryllium drivers


About that. Also classic MX500 plastic shell vs metal mesh cover changes the sound of the same driver. I prefer plastic version


----------



## FranQL

I am considering getting a third and for a long time it will be the last one I buy. Only two candidates, one is the prohibition in these parts and the other can be yincrow rw2000 (even knowing that the latter will not be comfortable for me, but it will help my wife stop using the Ry4s). At the moment for price and curiosity that I have more advantage the prohibited.


----------



## mochill

I like my earbuds with an attached cable 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## 40760

Anyone into Yincrow earbuds care to compare the X6 and RW-1000 Bass Boosted Version?

I can get them at a good price and they are quite tempting...


----------



## abhijollyguy

Does anybody know of an earbud with such sound signature?: 

Not bass-heavy but not bass-light either, mids should be fluid, warm, euphonic but not recessed and extended warm treble.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

abhijollyguy said:


> Does anybody know of an earbud with such sound signature?:
> 
> Not bass-heavy but not bass-light either, mids should be fluid, warm, euphonic but not recessed and extended warm treble.


Blur earbuds see *here*


----------



## digititus

palestofwhite said:


> Anyone into Yincrow earbuds care to compare the X6 and RW-1000 Bass Boosted Version?
> 
> I can get them at a good price and they are quite tempting...


I have the RW-9 and RW-1000 bass edition. I would say that the RW-1000 is a more sophisticated version of the RW-9. It has more detail, a wider field and better power handling. I really like them both.


----------



## abhijollyguy

WoodyLuvr said:


> Blur earbuds see *here*



Thank you!

Any other model of different brand?


----------



## 40760

digititus said:


> I have the RW-9 and RW-1000 bass edition. I would say that the RW-1000 is a more sophisticated version of the RW-9. It has more detail, a wider field and better power handling. I really like them both.



The RW-2000 at twice the price and only comes in blue didn't help...


----------



## digititus

palestofwhite said:


> The RW-2000 at twice the price and only comes in blue didn't help...


The blue is a deal breaker for me too


----------



## WoodyLuvr

abhijollyguy said:


> Any other model of different brand?


*VE Zen 2* maybe *Shozy BK*


----------



## abhijollyguy

WoodyLuvr said:


> *VE Zen 2* maybe *Shozy BK*


Costly earbuds...

Any recommendations around $50?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Speaking of Blur Earbuds I see that Wong Kuan Wae has two new models...

*Blur 69 MX64ohm*



 

 



*"Angel" in Coaxial*


----------



## furyossa

digititus said:


> The blue is a deal breaker for me too


16ohm only. Wish more


----------



## furyossa (Jan 31, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Speaking of Blur Earbuds I see that Wong Kuan Wae has two new models...
> 
> *Blur 69 MX64ohm*
> 
> ...


They look beautiful. The build is top notch


----------



## WoodyLuvr

furyossa said:


> They look beautiful


Very tempted as my Blur "Beautiful Witch" earbuds were beautifully made and specially tuned. Just wonder if they are _*different enough*_ to warrant the purchase.


----------



## FranQL

It can't be that it just changes the color! ??


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Very tempted as my Blur "Beautiful Witch" earbuds were beautifully made and specially tuned. Just wonder if they are _*different enough*_ to warrant the purchase.


Probably he uses couple DIY drivers (different impedance) and tune them differently. Also, he knows someone who produces shells, since I haven't seen any of them on the Ali.
He makes the cables, they are all knitted in the same way


----------



## 40760

That Blur Angel looks great in gold. What is the average price of Blur Earbuds?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

FranQL said:


> It can't be that it just changes the color! ??


Are you referring to the Blurs or the Yincrow conversation?

If the former, Wong Kuan Wae is a master DIYer and master tuner who uses a multitude of different driver/shell types and dampening materials producing a few different sound signatures that fall under the "Blur House Sound".  I was commenting on whether or not this new *Blur 69 MX64ohm *model was a new signature... different than the "Witches" line he created back from 2017 until 2018.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 31, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> That Blur Angel looks great in gold. What is the average price of Blur Earbuds?


Typically around USD150 +/-25 but he has had models as low as ~USD75 (Black Panther - a Docomo recable/retune) and all the way up to USD400+ (e.g. metal shell models).


----------



## furyossa (Jan 31, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Are you referring to the Blurs or the Yincrow conversation?
> 
> If the former, Wong Kuan Wae is a master DIYer and master tuner who uses a multitude of different driver/shell types and dampening materials producing a few different sound signatures that fall under the "Blur House Sound".  I was commenting on whether or not this new *Blur 69 MX64ohm *model was a new signature... different than the "Witches" line he created back from 2017 until 2018.


May I peek inside the shell just for sec? 
Does it have models with metal shells or does it just use the classic MX500 like?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 31, 2021)

One thing about Wong Kuan Wae is you must be patient as he is an artist... he is meticulous and takes his time tuning; there is no rushing him. But man his customer service is top notch, first rate in all regards. I was exceptionally lucky to catch him in between customer commission builds when ordering my 300 Ohm "Beautiful Witches", which he specially tuned for me, on the 27th of JUNE (2018) and receiving them on the 11th of JULY (2018).


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> One thing about Wong Kuan Wae is you must be patient as he is an artist... he is meticulous and takes his time tuning; there is no rushing him. But man his customer service is top notch, first rate in all regards. I was lucky to catch him in between customer commission builds ordering my "Beautiful Witches", which he specially tuned for me, on the 27th of JUNE (2018) and received them on the 11th of JULY (2018).


That's how it's done. Dedication and serious work. When it comes to art there are no deadlines, and no work of art is ever finished, only interrupted at some point


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> on the 27th of JUNE (2018) and receiving them on the 11th of JULY (2018)


How do you remember all these dates and information? Well, that is also art


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 31, 2021)

furyossa said:


> May I peek inside the shell just for sec?
> Does it have models with metal shells or does it just use the classic MX500 like?


He has indeed used a plethora of shell types of which many are especially unique and/or custom made for him like you mentioned earlier before. I have seen the following brass and silver metal shells used by him but suspect there may have been other metal ones as well circa 2016/7 when he first started selling buds and before I had heard of him (mid-2018). I might have also missed a few metal shell models in between 2019-2020. The fancy Japanese metal shells are made by Kazuhiro Oya.

Blur 300ohm brass




Blur Silver Chocolate




Blur Silver Silver


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> He has indeed used a plethora shell types of which many are especially unique and/or custom made for him like you mentioned earlier before. I have seen the following brass and silver metal shells used by him but suspect there may have been other metal ones as well circa 2016/7 when he first started selling buds and before I had heard of him (mid-2018). I might have also missed a few metal shell models in between 2019-2020.
> 
> Blur 300ohm brass
> 
> ...


Beautiful piece of art. Brass and aluminum? I like matt finish
Pentaconn. mmmmmm


----------



## WoodyLuvr

furyossa said:


> How do you remember all these dates and information? Well, that is also art


The government trained me well, very well. Excellent recall from lots of practice... e.g. calling in grid coordinates; weather information; and unfriendly positions.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

furyossa said:


> Beautiful piece of art. Brass and aluminum? I like matt finish
> Pentaconn. mmmmmm


Yeah, you can order nearly any connector type and brand you want.


----------



## baskingshark

WoodyLuvr said:


> One thing about Wong Kuan Wae is you must be patient as he is an artist... he is meticulous and takes his time tuning; there is no rushing him. But man his customer service is top notch, first rate in all regards. I was exceptionally lucky to catch him in between customer commission builds when ordering my 300 Ohm "Beautiful Witches", which he specially tuned for me, on the 27th of JUNE (2018) and receiving them on the 11th of JULY (2018).



Wow is there a shop page or link to see his creations? I don't have facebook so is there any way to contact him to buy some earbuds?


----------



## furyossa (Jan 31, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> The government trained me well, very well. Excellent recall from lots of practice... e.g. calling in grid coordinates; weather information; and unfriendly positions.


Ok "CIA agent", do you remember these Penon buds. They discontinued but that does not prevent us from putting them
on the E.T.list (Penon Earbud, Penon BS1 Official version, Penon Experience version)


----------



## 40760 (Jan 31, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Wow is there a shop page or link to see his creations? I don't have facebook so is there any way to contact him to buy some earbuds?



I don't think he has a shop, but you can find him on Instagram @blurearbuds_boleh7.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Another example of his work... the *Blur 193 MX400Ω with XLR 4Pin*


----------



## FranQL

WoodyLuvr said:


> Blur 69 MX64ohm



Very good finishes, those cables look very good, a shame the difficulty to acquire them, but this does look good.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

furyossa said:


> Ok "CIA agent", do you remember these Penon buds. They discontinued but that does not prevent us from putting them
> on the E.T.list (Penon Earbud, Penon BS1 Official version, Penon Experience version)


Added!


----------



## 40760

WoodyLuvr said:


> Another example of his work... the *Blur 193 MX400Ω with XLR 4Pin*



Someday... I'll try and get him to make one for my desktop usage. When the time is right...


----------



## MelodyMood

WoodyLuvr said:


> Good day. I believe you may have misunderstood my point (apologies if I was unclear). Perhaps the B40 shell type may not fit *your ear *and/or it may require some serious fiddling around with foams to get a better fit to your ear. I was not implying that an earbud should be fitted like an IEM. Earbuds however do have their own fitting requirements... not nearly as critical as with IEMs but nonetheless do require a proper fit in their own right as do all head/earphones. This has been discussed, at great lengths, throughout the history of this thread (here are two examples that you might find helpful regarding "earbud fitting": *Post #26,082* and *Post #22,897*. I do encourage you to try various foam combinations to see if that helps. I am unclear as to why "double foam" would be an "inconvenience"? Please explain further so I may offer some input on that  . Cheers.


Sure. Let me do some R&D and see if they sound better or same? What other Earbuds you may suggest for better quality in terms of sound and build  both. As I mentioned, I have TP16, Monk+, FiiO EM3, Yincrow X6 etc. I need good Bass, Smooth High and Mic is must.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 31, 2021)

@DBaldock9 you missed the discussion today about your favorite model "Blur".   I expected you to say something about your experience with them and share some photos.


----------



## DBaldock9 (Jan 31, 2021)

furyossa said:


> @DBaldock9 you missed the discussion today about your favorite model "Blur".  I expected you to say something about your experience with them and share some photos.



Was working for the first part of today, on getting my Onkyo DP-X1 DAP back to operational (reloading Recovery & System partitions, rooting, and reinstalling apps).
Now, I'm listening to my Blur "hALF/hALF" Earbuds (150-Ω, 2.5TRRS), while setting-up / checking out the various audio apps.
Currently enjoying my "Daily Mix 2" (Celtic & Renaissance Festival tracks) Playlist on Spotify Premium.
.
*EDIT:* Next, I'll be listening to Hallmark Movies*, connected to my Roku Streamer -> Topping D70 DAC -> iBasso PB2 Amp.*


----------



## furyossa (Jan 31, 2021)

DBaldock9 said:


> Was working for the first part of today, on getting my Onkyo DP-X1 DAP back to operational (reloading Recovery & System partitions, rooting, and reinstalling apps).
> Now, I'm listening to my Blur "hALF/hALF" Earbuds (150-Ω, 2.5TRRS), while setting-up / checking out the various audio apps.
> Currently enjoying my "Daily Mix 2" (Celtic & Renaissance Festival tracks) Playlist on Spotify Premium.
> .
> *EDIT:* Next, I'll be listening to Hallmark Movies*, connected to my Roku Streamer -> Topping D70 DAC -> iBasso PB2 Amp.*


I haven't seen that device before. It looks pretty powerful with plenty of modern features considering it is a 5 year old model.
I almost always use HF Player app when I listen my Onkyo E700M.
Spotify Premium has MQA or that is only Tidal thing?


----------



## DBaldock9

furyossa said:


> I haven't seen that device before. It looks pretty powerful with plenty of modern features considering it is a 5 year old model.
> I almost always use HF Player app when I listen my Onkyo E700M.
> Spotify Premium has MQA or that is only Tidal thing?



I think only Tidal streams MQA files. I had a Tidal account for maybe a year - but they didn't have enough music that I would actually listen to, to make it worth the cost. 
. 
Spotify has a lot of music I enjoy listening to - so I pay for it. 
. 
I also have a YouTube premium account, so I can stream a lot of music & videos, even when the app doesn't have focus, or the screen is off.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 1, 2021)

DBaldock9 said:


> I think only Tidal streams MQA files. I had a Tidal account for maybe a year - but they didn't have enough music that I would actually listen to, to make it worth the cost.
> .
> Spotify has a lot of music I enjoy listening to - so I pay for it.
> .
> I also have a YouTube premium account, so I can stream a lot of music & videos, even when the app doesn't have focus, or the screen is off.


I use Tidal on LG with UAPP. As for the MQA files, laptot > iFi ZenDAC and I really enjoy it but as you said it's limited in number of songs if we compare it to Spotify or Deezer.
It goes like this Spotify > Deezer > Tidal. What distracts me the most from Tidle is the file organization and playlists. They should definitely work on it
Deezer is the winner in that segment. That's why I use it most often. BTW I didn't try YT music premium


----------



## rkw

DBaldock9 said:


> I also have a YouTube premium account, so I can stream a lot of music & videos, even when the app doesn't have focus, or the screen is off.


One of the biggest benefits of YouTube Premium — no ads.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

MelodyMood said:


> I need good Bass, Smooth High and Mic is must.


That is very tough one... good sound plus mic, let alone deep detailed bass and a mic. I only have had one mic'd earbud worthy to speak of and that is the B40... maybe someone else can offer you some other suggestions that would fit the bill


----------



## furyossa (Feb 1, 2021)

DBaldock9 said:


> I think only Tidal streams MQA files. I had a Tidal account for maybe a year - but they didn't have enough music that I would actually listen to, to make it worth the cost.
> .
> Spotify has a lot of music I enjoy listening to - so I pay for it.
> .
> I also have a YouTube premium account, so I can stream a lot of music & videos, even when the app doesn't have focus, or the screen is off.





rkw said:


> One of the biggest benefits of YouTube Premium — no ads.


Like other premiums  Anything else special there comparing with previous 3 streaming services?
Anyway ... @DBaldock9 when you have free time post some photos of your Blur's


----------



## DBaldock9

WoodyLuvr said:


> That is very tough one... good sound plus mic, let alone deep detailed bass and a mic. I only have had one mic'd earbud worthy to speak of and that is the B40... maybe someone else can offer you some other suggestions that would fit the bill



There are good cables, w/Mic & Music Controls, that are available with MMCX or 2-Pin connectors. 
. 
This means almost any earbuds with removable cables, and the preferred sound signature, can be recommended.


----------



## 40760

EM5's bass is 🤯

I'm addicted.


----------



## furyossa

palestofwhite said:


> EM5's bass is 🤯
> 
> I'm addicted.



Be careful. There is no organized therapy for buds addicts


----------



## 40760

furyossa said:


> Be careful. There is no organized therapy for buds addicts



My heart is broken as I have found a defect with my set. I found that the insulation of the cable coming out of the left driver has "melted" and is exposing the silver wires. I thought it was glue stains at first but it's not.


----------



## furyossa

palestofwhite said:


> My heart is broken as I have found a defect with my set. I found that the insulation of the cable coming out of the left driver has "melted" and is exposing the silver wires. I thought it was glue stains at first but it's not.


What do you plan to do? You plan to return them or not? Can you post the photo


----------



## 40760 (Feb 1, 2021)

furyossa said:


> What do you plan to do? You plan to return them or not? Can you post the photo



EDIT: RMA done


----------



## astermk

New to real earbuds. Anybody have a recommendation up to $20ish? I've always been an IEM person but I want to dip my toes in this side of hi-fi a little bit.
I found the NiceHCK DIY MX500 immediately and I see some praise for them but I can't deal with the design. The Moondrop Nameless look very nice to me. Is there anything in league with the MX500 but with a nicer shell up to $20-25?


----------



## cappuchino

astermk said:


> New to real earbuds. Anybody have a recommendation up to $20ish? I've always been an IEM person but I want to dip my toes in this side of hi-fi a little bit.
> I found the NiceHCK DIY MX500 immediately and I see some praise for them but I can't deal with the design. The Moondrop Nameless look very nice to me. Is there anything in league with the MX500 but with a nicer shell up to $20-25?


There's the Datura Pro. @furyossa and @Sam L can help you with this.


----------



## slex

astermk said:


> New to real earbuds. Anybody have a recommendation up to $20ish? I've always been an IEM person but I want to dip my toes in this side of hi-fi a little bit.
> I found the NiceHCK DIY MX500 immediately and I see some praise for them but I can't deal with the design. The Moondrop Nameless look very nice to me. Is there anything in league with the MX500 but with a nicer shell up to $20-25?


Fengru PT52.


----------



## FranQL

WoodyLuvr said:


> That is very tough one... good sound plus mic, let alone deep detailed bass and a mic. I only have had one mic'd earbud worthy to speak of and that is the B40... maybe someone else can offer you some other suggestions that would fit the bill



During working hours I always use a microphone, I have never used it on a bud, because at the moment I only have one.

But in none of my iems have I noticed any change in sound from wired with mic to wired without mic.


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> Be careful. There is no organized therapy for buds addicts



I wait for the ksearphone to reach me. I don't know if it's good that I like it or not, more than anything for fear of that addiction, my ali basket already has a few (cheap) buds saved ...


----------



## baskingshark

palestofwhite said:


> My heart is broken as I have found a defect with my set. I found that the insulation of the cable coming out of the left driver has "melted" and is exposing the silver wires. I thought it was glue stains at first but it's not.



Hope u get an amicable settlement from the seller! It should be under warranty I hope. That's the problem with TOTL buds having non detachable cables.

Best to exchange it back early preemptively, it may be a potential source of failure down the line. I had 2 non detachable westones (midfi ones) that had similar exposed cables at the insertion point. A few days after I noticed it, sound cut out intermittently, and a month or so later, no sound at all. Had to resort to doing a MMCX mod to salvage them from being a white elephant. After that experience, I swore to myself never to buy any earbud or IEM more than $50 with non detachable cables.


----------



## astermk

What is the difference between the NiceHCK DIY MX500 and the PK1? I decided not to fuss about build quality all that much and I'm mainly looking at the MX500 now but the PK1 also costs almost the same price.


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> I wait for the ksearphone to reach me. I don't know if it's good that I like it or not, more than anything for fear of that addiction, my ali basket already has a few (cheap) buds saved ...


Which one K's?


----------



## furyossa

astermk said:


> What is the difference between the NiceHCK DIY MX500 and the PK1? I decided not to fuss about build quality all that much and I'm mainly looking at the MX500 now but the PK1 also costs almost the same price.


The main difference is driver size 15.4mm(MX500) vs 14.8mm (PK1) so this will affect comfort and fit. If U already know that then the next question will be which PK1 model do you mean?


----------



## gordonderp

Hey guys so my new pair of me80s came in and they sound worse than my older pair. Is the deviation within chi fi that bad? The newer pair definately sounds less clear than the older pair.


----------



## 40760

baskingshark said:


> Hope u get an amicable settlement from the seller! It should be under warranty I hope. That's the problem with TOTL buds having non detachable cables.
> 
> Best to exchange it back early preemptively, it may be a potential source of failure down the line. I had 2 non detachable westones (midfi ones) that had similar exposed cables at the insertion point. A few days after I noticed it, sound cut out intermittently, and a month or so later, no sound at all. Had to resort to doing a MMCX mod to salvage them from being a white elephant. After that experience, I swore to myself never to buy any earbud or IEM more than $50 with non detachable cables.



The local shop has always been reliable and very accommodating. I popped by after dinner and they gave me a fuss-free exchange and everything is now in good order.

The bass from the EM5 is really potent I must say. I'm using it 4.4mm balanced out from the iFi Zen Dac. Can't imagine what the 200 - 300 hour burn in can do it?


----------



## 40760

gordonderp said:


> Hey guys so my new pair of me80s came in and they sound worse than my older pair. Is the deviation within chi fi that bad? The newer pair definately sounds less clear than the older pair.



Yes and it is not unique to cheaper earbuds. I had my first Shozy BK which sounded terrific, which were possibly the smoothest sounding earbuds I ever own. Unfortunately one of the driver had to fail and the replacement was nowhere as good. Last I heard was that the original cable was discontinued and the new ones affected the tuning. I gave up on it in the end.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 1, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> After that experience, I swore to myself never to buy any earbud or IEM more than $50 with non detachable cables.


Many of us have similar experience with expensive models. I agree with your decision for detachable cables but not only that.
We see that 80-90% of high end IEM's came with mediocre cable quality. Main reason is that people who buy such models probably have their own quality cables that they use with such IEMs.
On the other hand, with earbuds, it’s a different story. First, unlike IEM, 10-20% of earbuds use detachable cables and these cables are mostly above average quality, and the main problem is that we don't see such quality with fixed cables.
I think it’s time to standardize some things and I don’t think  just  about cables. Someone may not agree with some things, but I will try to explain each item as briefly as possible. Of course any comment are welcome. So these would be some things that need to be change for "modern age" earbuds

*#1* *better quality for fixed cables*, at least for that quality control (QC) is the must especially for over $100 buds. As for the cheaper models use slightly *better quality plugs*
rather than those worth $0.01 which disintegrate after a month.

*#2* The difference in *price between the version with or without connectors should equalize*. Today there are numerous connectors in different variants. The most common of them are mmcx and 2-pin. A couple of years ago, their price was around $10, and now it is around $1. Also, their installation does not require any longer time compared to the installation of the cable itself. I agree it is a slightly more delicate process, but it should not make a drastic difference in price.
Also, all this applies to the different plugs (2.5mm, 3.5mm, 4.4mm).

*#3* Don't use *16ohm drivers* for earbuds. Why? Many buds shells use cheap plastic which is prone to resonance. When we add a driver that has a distortion problem at a slightly higher volume, what do we get with that? Today's smartphones and other music oriented devices are much more advanced than they were 10 years ago, and have enough power to drive any (1DD) 32ohm driver. Same goes for *very high sensitivity* (over 120dB). Why we need that?

*#4* This would be optional but it's not such a bad idea. 
*a)* *More modular solutions* in terms of upgrades and easy repairs and not for tuning purposes. 
One example is the modular system applied to the Smabat model which provides easy and safe upgrade of the driver, whether it's there or some other 15.4mm driver.
Of course, this system can be improved over time and I hope that other series of their drivers will be compatible with the M1Pro model.
*b)* *Avoid interchangeable parts* for tuning and try with *switches *(like IEMs). Physical tuning is one of the most fascinating things for me, whether it's headphones or earphones, and it requires a lot of knowledge and patience. In the past, many high-end models used (and still are today) various interchangeable parts for tuning like nozzle or
some part of rear vent. Today, we see that with cheaper IEM models and a couple of earbuds. Yes, this system works but also have a few flaws.
Price can go up in some cases. Constant replacement of these parts can damage the threads in connection with the shell. Many users accept one type of filter so the multi-filter solution is not fully utilized.
On the other hand, we have a modern and much practical solution that does not require removal and installation of parts, and these are switches that, unfortunately,
are currently used on multi-driver IEM's. TFZ KING EDITION has a solution for single DD, but I don't know whether it has any special significance at all.
I will love to see a similar system for earbuds in the near future


----------



## 40760

So I wanted to test my new EM5 for games and fired up the classic Counter-Strike FPS. And I was hearing all sorts of things, got so confused and have never played so badly.

Guess what? Turns out the L/R channel was swapped! I think they got the wiring wrong at the factory!

Looks like I have made a wasted trip and will have to get this thing changed again...


----------



## RikudouGoku

palestofwhite said:


> So I wanted to test my new EM5 for games and fired up the classic Counter-Strike FPS. And I was hearing all sorts of things, got so confused and have never played so badly.
> 
> Guess what? Turns out the L/R channel was swapped! I think they got the wiring wrong at the factory!
> 
> Looks like I have made a wasted trip and will have to get this thing changed again...


...sounds like their QC is very good.


----------



## furyossa

palestofwhite said:


> Can't imagine what the 200 - 300 hour burn in can do it?


You will burn before them probably if this continues. 
After your experience, I think it will be difficult for someone to pull the trigger or ask about this model ever again.


----------



## FranQL (Feb 1, 2021)

furyossa said:


> You will burn before them probably if this continues.
> After your experience, I think it will be difficult for someone to pull the trigger or ask about this model ever again.


More when for the price the user expects that at least their quality control is up to par. But it can also be bad luck.

But yes, as mentioned before, I will not invest in fixed cables in budgets of more than € 50


----------



## astermk

furyossa said:


> The main difference is driver size 15.4mm(MX500) vs 14.8mm (PK1) so this will affect comfort and fit. If U already know that then the next question will be which PK1 model do you mean?


Thank you. I ordered a pair of MX500s, fingers crossed they'll be good, but even if they aren't, it's $10 for a toy and an experiment, so whatever. I want them to be good cuz my experience with earbuds has been pretty terrible so far, but I realize that's because it's been primarily smartphone pack in freebies and such, and those tend to be terrible anyway. I guess if I can find at least one reason for owning them besides the KZ ZAX and CCA CA16 that I have, that'll be a win.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

*NICEHCK EBX21* earbuds have landed @ *NiceHCK Audio Store*!




32Ω @ 121dB/mW... damn, they are super sensitive!


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> *NICEHCK EBX21* earbuds have landed @ *NiceHCK Audio Store*!
> 
> 32Ω @ 121dB/mW... damn, they are super sensitive!


Looks like it got the NiceHCK blocc cable as well.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001027774242.html


----------



## cqtek

WoodyLuvr said:


> *NICEHCK EBX21* earbuds have landed @ *NiceHCK Audio Store*!
> 
> 32Ω @ 121dB/mW... damn, they are super sensitive!


They look very irresistible in that photo. It's going to be hard not to buy them, I don't have a NiceHCK flagship.


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> 32Ω @ 121dB/mW... damn, they are super sensitive!


That's what I mentioned in the previous comment Why we need sensitivity over 120dB?


RikudouGoku said:


> Looks like it got the NiceHCK blocc cable as well.


Same goes for the price difference between cable plugs. Now take a look at this
Price difference NICEHCK EBX21 (3.5mm plug) vs (4.4mm plug) = $10
Price difference NICEHCK Blocc cable (3.5mm plug) vs (4.4mm plug) = $3


----------



## FranQL

WoodyLuvr said:


> *NICEHCK EBX21* earbuds have landed @ *NiceHCK Audio Store*!
> 
> 32Ω @ 121dB/mW... damn, they are super sensitive!



interesting and expensive at the same time ....


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> That's what I mentioned in the previous comment Why we need sensitivity over 120dB?
> 
> Same goes for the price difference between cable plugs. Now take a look at this
> Price difference NICEHCK EBX21 (3.5mm plug) vs (4.4mm plug) = $10
> Price difference NICEHCK Blocc cable (3.5mm plug) vs (4.4mm plug) = $3


I totally get you on the sensitivity/resistance thing now. I got the Tansio Mirai TSMR 4 pro today and I can BARELY adjust the volume wheel on my jds atom. Like, I am using around 5%, doesnt give you much volume control when it is super sensitive. Same with my Ibasso DX160, I am using a volume around 15, when I am usually around 30.

Guess you have to learn first hand how annoying stuff can be, before you actually care....


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> interesting and expensive at the same time ....


 strange isn't it?
I'm interested in how the driver performing. Has anyone seen a similar driver so far?


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> I totally get you on the sensitivity/resistance thing now. I got the Tansio Mirai TSMR 4 pro today and I can BARELY adjust the volume wheel on my jds atom. Like, I am using around 5%, doesnt give you much volume control when it is super sensitive. Same with my Ibasso DX160, I am using a volume around 15, when I am usually around 30.
> 
> Guess you have to learn first hand how annoying stuff can be, before you actually care....


That's the right answer. Driver not scale very well on powerful devices. It struggles a lot. Also forget about tube amp


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> strange isn't it?
> I'm interested in how the driver performing. Has anyone seen a similar driver so far?


The Moondrop Chaconne is also using a LCP driver. Sony uses LCP drivers for their iems as well, like the XBA-Z5, N3 and their Z1R.


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> That's the right answer. Driver not scale very well on powerful devices. It struggles a lot. Also forget about tube amp


Oh boy, I dont want to think about how super sensitive transducers would work on tube amps. Probably a hiss party.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Oh boy, I dont want to think about how super sensitive transducers would work on tube amps. Probably a hiss party.


It's like getting into a snake's nest or better yet a transformer station


----------



## FranQL

I don't know how this one will be tuned (obviously), but the nicehck IEMs in my opinion (the ones I have bought), are mediocre (yes, I know the hype they have had and still, I have not liked them), always keeping in mind the price and what other manufacturers offer.

I hope they did a good job here


----------



## RikudouGoku

FranQL said:


> I don't know how this one will be tuned (obviously), but the nicehck IEMs in my opinion (the ones I have bought), are mediocre (yes, I know the hype they have had and still, I have not liked them), always keeping in mind the price and what other manufacturers offer.
> 
> I hope they did a good job here


Havent tried their iems either actually. But their MX500 and the ME80 are so damn good. Lets hope their flagship can justify the price increase of like 20x lol.


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> I don't know how this one will be tuned (obviously), but the nicehck IEMs in my opinion (the ones I have bought), are mediocre (yes, I know the hype they have had and still, I have not liked them), always keeping in mind the price and what other manufacturers offer.
> 
> I hope they did a good job here


OG EBX didn’t have as much competition as this new model. It was really great for me at the time, but when I started testing DIY drivers, everything changed. Literally all drivers started at 130ohm and up, have overtaken it


----------



## FranQL

RikudouGoku said:


> Havent tried their iems either actually. But their MX500 and the ME80 are so damn good. Lets hope their flagship can justify the price increase of like 20x lol.



in buds I really can't debate anything at all, if it's true that for € 8 I'll end up trying the B40. and also the X6 that you always recommend for € 11 (even if I don't fit well ... I'm curious).


----------



## FranQL (Feb 1, 2021)

furyossa said:


> OG EBX didn’t have as much competition as this new model. It was really great for me at the time, but when I started testing DIY drivers, everything changed. Literally all drivers started at 130ohm and up, have overtaken it



A shame not to try those quality DIYs, if I didn't have those criminal shipping rates, I would ask you to make me a pair!


----------



## RikudouGoku

FranQL said:


> in buds I really can't debate anything at all, if it's true that for € 8 I'll end up trying the B40. and also the X6 that you always recommend for € 11 (even if I don't fit well ... I'm curious).


Well...I dont like the B40 lol. 

The X6 on the other hand...go get it.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 1, 2021)

I remember when the ME80 (lucky bag $9.99) first appeared, then the OG EBX cost aroun $95.
After two days, I sold the ME80 because I didn’t like it.




Still they look pretty cool  and it's strong like a tank. Damn "thin wall" mmcx


----------



## dissociativity

So I got the Yamaha buds from Japan, I'm thinking it's a 13.8mm driver, I'm not taking it apart though, very small comfy buds, sound very good for the driver size, mods and treble are decent, bass is lacking, was very cheap out of my zenmarket order. 

So I'm gonna say I tentatively approve of Yamaha buds if you can find them, I got my Nokia buds with the proprietary port I need to rewire when I get my pack of 7 lovely copper cables so I can hear how truly good they are.


----------



## 40760

furyossa said:


> You will burn before them probably if this continues.
> After your experience, I think it will be difficult for someone to pull the trigger or ask about this model ever again.



You bet. I have always heard good things about the brand quality but my personal experience is quite a nightmare. Doubt I will ever consider getting another of their product again.


----------



## mochill

abhijollyguy said:


> Does anybody know of an earbud with such sound signature?:
> 
> Not bass-heavy but not bass-light either, mids should be fluid, warm, euphonic but not recessed and extended warm treble.


Newbsound


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> I remember when the ME80 (lucky bag $9.99) first appeared, then the OG EBX cost aroun $95.
> After two days, I sold the ME80 because I didn’t like it.
> 
> Still they look pretty cool  and it's strong like a tank. Damn "thin wall" mmcx



Do you use cables with split style male MMCX ends?






You can also lightly squeeze the thin MMCX housings, making them slightly oval until the wire is attached.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

assassin10000 said:


> You can also lightly squeeze the thin MMCX housings, making them slightly oval until the wire is attached.


You are awfully brave! Not for the feint of heart nor inept-handed!


----------



## assassin10000

WoodyLuvr said:


> You are awfully brave! Not for the feint of heart nor inept-handed!



@furyossa has decent DIY skills. I believe in him lol.


----------



## 1clearhead

Okay, so MEMT had a good long run with their ear pod series MEMT T5 for the past few years with four amazing colors black, red, gold, and silver which gave me the craving to pick up all four. But, when I saw two new colors posted in taobao website, I couldn't resist to pick those up as well!

They have an incredible soundstage which one might think you're wearing IEM's, but with an open presence to your surroundings. Has nice low bass and sub-bass notes, life-like MID's, and awesome treble presence, too!

I just thought to share these with you...

Link: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z0d.6639537.1997196601.24.7bf07484KlZwYY&id=610076737961




-Clear


----------



## dissociativity

1clearhead said:


> Okay, so MEMT had a good long run with their ear pod series MEMT T5 for the past few years with four amazing colors black, red, gold, and silver which gave me the craving to pick up all four. But, when I saw two new colors posted in taobao website, I couldn't resist to pick those up as well!
> -Clear


the memt t6 are actually absolutely horrible, avoid them at all costs.
I've had t5 before but they were faulty, but otherwise sounded great, I can't remember what the fault was, gave em away.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> You can also lightly squeeze the thin MMCX housings, making them slightly oval until the wire is attached.


I didn't check the cable. Female mmcx on the right side is a bit loose and the signal is lost every time when I move the cable. 
Eventually I plan to replace both female mmcx, but it will not be easy because they are well attached to the shell
I love this bud. I would like NiceHCK to return to this model and replace the connectors because the quality of the shell is really great and 
this is one of the best over-ear bud in my collection.


WoodyLuvr said:


> You are awfully brave! Not for the feint of heart nor inept-handed!


He knows me well that's why he suggested something like that 


assassin10000 said:


> @furyossa has decent DIY skills. I believe in him lol.


Thanks for the kind words man.


----------



## furyossa

palestofwhite said:


> You bet. I have always heard good things about the brand quality but my personal experience is quite a nightmare. Doubt I will ever consider getting another of their product again.


Yup. But it probably refers to IEMs, DACs and DAPs. Obviously, this is not the case with earbuds


----------



## 40760

I have just exchanged the EM5 again, this time with a more thorough check through before I left the audio shop.

Even they made the comment that the QC is not good, and having the L/R side wrong is a rare and unacceptable error.


----------



## 1clearhead

dissociativity said:


> the memt t6 are actually absolutely horrible, avoid them at all costs.
> I've had t5 before but they were faulty, but otherwise sounded great, I can't remember what the fault was, gave em away.


I still have the 4 different colored T5's that I got more than 2 years ago and they still work and sound perfectly. The 2 new ones works and sounds just as good and equally the same, so I know these are going to last me for a while, just as long as I take care of them.

...Sorry, you received a faulty T5 for our experiences are totally different.


----------



## 1clearhead

dissociativity said:


> *the memt t6 are actually absolutely horrible, avoid them at all costs.*
> I've had t5 before but they were faulty, but otherwise sounded great, I can't remember what the fault was, gave em away.


+1 About the T6...avoid them at all cost! Agree!


----------



## baskingshark

palestofwhite said:


> I have just exchanged the EM5 again, this time with a more thorough check through before I left the audio shop.
> 
> Even they made the comment that the QC is not good, and having the L/R side wrong is a rare and unacceptable error.



Lucky u bought it from a local shop. Imagine folks who bought it from Aliexpress, they are gonna have a hard time sending it back (if at all). Sometimes the cost of sending it back can equal a midfi IEM/earbud! Thanks for your feedback, appreciated. I mean if this is a budget set, QC issues are par for the course in CHIFI. But multiple QC problems in a TOTL set? That is not very encouraging TBH.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 2, 2021)

1clearhead said:


> I still have the 4 different colored T5's that I got more than 2 years ago and they still work and sound perfectly. The 2 new ones works and sounds just as good and equally the same, so I know these are going to last me for a while, just as long as I take care of them.
> 
> ...Sorry, you received a faulty T5 for our experiences are totally different.


I'm not a fan of AirPods cover but like you, I have a habit of taking more pairs of the buds that I like. You never know when something will go wrong.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 2, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Lucky u bought it from a local shop. Imagine folks who bought it from Aliexpress, they are gonna have a hard time sending it back (if at all). Sometimes the cost of sending it back can equal a midfi IEM/earbud! Thanks for your feedback, appreciated. I mean if this is a budget set, QC issues are par for the course in CHIFI. But multiple QC problems in a TOTL set? That is not very encouraging TBH.


And just imagine you have to return them twice?  I would probably jump off the bridge ... bungee jumping style






palestofwhite said:


> Even they made the comment that the QC is not good, and having the L/R side wrong is a rare and unacceptable error.


For a well-known manufacturer, this is a great omission and shame. And it’s not clear to me how this bud went through quality control at all


----------



## 40760

baskingshark said:


> Lucky u bought it from a local shop. Imagine folks who bought it from Aliexpress, they are gonna have a hard time sending it back (if at all). Sometimes the cost of sending it back can equal a midfi IEM/earbud! Thanks for your feedback, appreciated. I mean if this is a budget set, QC issues are par for the course in CHIFI. But multiple QC problems in a TOTL set? That is not very encouraging TBH.



After this experience, I shall refrain from getting expensive earbuds from overseas sources (maybe I'll set a price limit). I had 2 pairs of their EM3 which arrived in excellent condition, so I don't know what is their excuse for this expensive model. Hand braided wires prone to cracking? Wrongly soldered L/R drivers? 

I have already posted my experience on the FiiO sponsored EM5 thread. To be really honest, I'm not even sure if this latest pair will hold up with age.
Hope they will look into it and improve, otherwise what is a very good sounding set of earbuds.



furyossa said:


> And just imagine you have to return them twice?  I would probably jump off the bridge ... bungee jumping style
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I took the plunge (leap of faith?) and was not rewarded. What are the chances of getting 2 faulty pairs in a row? 

Burning in as we speak. Both myself and the earbuds.


----------



## furyossa

palestofwhite said:


> What are the chances of getting 2 faulty pairs in a row?
> Burning in as we speak. Both myself and the earbuds.


I don’t know maybe it’s some kind of weird luck 
BTW...Go and cool off with a cold shower from time to time. Don't push yourself.


----------



## 40760

furyossa said:


> I don’t know maybe it’s some kind of weird luck
> BTW...Go and cool off with a cold shower from time to time. Don't push yourself.



Now now...

Perhaps a pair of RW-1000 bass edition for backup pair?


----------



## FranQL

palestofwhite said:


> Now now...
> 
> Perhaps a pair of RW-1000 bass edition for backup pair?


It seems more solid at least, and it comes out at € 60 ...


----------



## 40760

FranQL said:


> It seems more solid at least, and it comes out at € 60 ...



I can get them for even lower. Metal shells are great and the cables are swappable.

The dilemma comes when deciding between these and the RW-2000 which are coming in at more than double the price.

Looks like I have to do more research...


----------



## Sam L

sub30 said:


> There's the Datura Pro. @furyossa and @Sam L can help you with this.


If you're able to run my eq settings (ideally using wavelet on an Android device), then the Datura Pro is an excellent choice coming from iems. Most earbuds have mid bass bloat  on a level that is rare with IEMs. The compensation files I generate remove that completely. The result is a very iem-friendly earbud.


----------



## Sam L

astermk said:


> What is the difference between the NiceHCK DIY MX500 and the PK1? I decided not to fuss about build quality all that much and I'm mainly looking at the MX500 now but the PK1 also costs almost the same price.


the pk1 shell is a tad small than the mx500.


----------



## earfanatic

earfanatic said:


> yes, we will see soon


Here it is. The Auglamour RX1 front opens up nicely, and snaps back to its place.
I dont know why one grill was blocked, maybe the cable was forced against from inside.
There is not much in the shell, two bottomside vents, with filter on the inside.
The driver's air holes are covered with a horseshoe shape transparent foil, looks like silicon to me.
Now, I am open for suggestions for tuning.
I have to replace the cable, because You can see, it is broken below the shell. I have just discovered it.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

palestofwhite said:


> I can get them for even lower. Metal shells are great and the cables are swappable.
> 
> The dilemma comes when deciding between these and the RW-2000 which are coming in at more than double the price.
> 
> Looks like I have to do more research...


I like RW-2000 more, on sale with a coupon or promo code reaches up to 104$


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> Here it is. The Auglamour RX1 front opens up nicely, and snaps back to its place.
> I dont know why one grill was blocked, maybe the cable was forced against from inside.
> There is not much in the shell, two bottomside vents, with filter on the inside.
> The driver's air holes are covered with a horseshoe shape transparent foil, looks like silicon to me.
> ...


They suffocated the driver with so much glue.


----------



## FranQL

Alex.Grimm said:


> I like RW-2000 more, on sale with a coupon or promo code reaches up to 104$



RW2000 is at a similar price to Lyra Nature, and a dark dilemma begins, whether to buy a new product or buy a product with very good reviews ...


----------



## 40760

Alex.Grimm said:


> I like RW-2000 more, on sale with a coupon or promo code reaches up to 104$



I have a feeling the stores are clearing out stocks, hence the RW-1000 is going for so much more lower.

Guess I'll just have to be patient and wait for better discounts on the RW-2000 in the future.


----------



## 40760

FranQL said:


> RW2000 is at a similar price to Lyra Nature, and a dark dilemma begins, whether to buy a new product or buy a product with very good reviews ...



I had the 32ohms Lyra Collection and find it not that great sounding TBH. While I do prefer the aesthetics of the Lyra Nature, I will personally want to try the RW-2000.


----------



## Simmons

Alex.Grimm said:


> I like RW-2000 more, on sale with a coupon or promo code reaches up to 104$


Left to wait for the sale $100 good price for this headphones


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> They suffocated the driver with so much glue.


Yes, that was my first thought too.
It definitely need some cleaning.
What do you think about the transparent horseshoe on the driver openings? It is sticky as hell too.


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> Yes, that was my first thought too.
> It definitely need some cleaning.
> What do you think about the transparent horseshoe on the driver openings? It is sticky as hell too.


They desperately tried to get the bass. I would try something different for a change, but I think it would be better to continue this story on the DIY Earbuds thread. Take some pictures of the driver and interior of the shell (to see is there any vent) and post it on DIY-E thread


----------



## Dobrescu George

If you enjoy earbuds, FiO EM5 should be right up your alley. A bit on the expensive side, but they sound the part, and come with a modular cable, so good stuff from FiiO and their latest IEM 

I review them in video on Youtube, and I do my best to include comparisons, B-Rolls and more info about earbuds in general : )


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Feb 3, 2021)

Dobrescu George said:


> If you enjoy earbuds, FiO EM5 should be right up your alley. A bit on the expensive side, but they sound the part, and come with a modular cable, so good stuff from FiiO and their latest IEM
> 
> I review them in video on Youtube, and I do my best to include comparisons, B-Rolls and more info about earbuds in general : )



*@Dobrescu George*
Are you serious?! Poor timing, if so good sir. You do seem to be an awfully nice man and I have enjoyed watching some of your videos in the past *but* your post is rather silly and suspect (it comes off as being a needy marketing ploy to direct people to your channel). You are clearly not reading (or fully comprehending) this thread... just a few posts back we were discussing the poor quality control of the FiiO EM5!


----------



## Sam L

WoodyLuvr said:


> *@Dobrescu George*
> Are you serious?! Poor timing, if so good sir. You do seem to be an awfully nice man and I have enjoyed watching some of your videos in the past *but* your post is rather silly and suspect (it comes off as being a needy marketing ploy to direct people to your channel). You are clearly not reading (or fully comprehending) this thread... just a few posts back we were discussing the poor quality control of the FiiO EM5!


well, I think he's a victim of poor timing. But you are correct, it's obvious he isn't a participant of this thread and dropped a post in here for the sole purpose of promoting his youtube channel. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but unfortunately, he's lost a bit of credibility with regards to *earbuds *for me.


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> *@Dobrescu George*
> Are you serious?! Poor timing, if so good sir. You do seem to be an awfully nice man and I have enjoyed watching some of your videos in the past *but* your post is rather silly and suspect (it comes off as being a needy marketing ploy to direct people to your channel). You are clearly not reading (or fully comprehending) this thread... just a few posts back we were discussing the poor quality control of the FiiO EM5!


The only guy who needs to make a brief review here about his “3rd luck" experience is @palestofwhite 
I guess he's busy right now with burn-in


----------



## Dobrescu George (Feb 3, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> *@Dobrescu George*
> Are you serious?! Poor timing, if so good sir. You do seem to be an awfully nice man and I have enjoyed watching some of your videos in the past *but* your post is rather silly and suspect (it comes off as being a needy marketing ploy to direct people to your channel). You are clearly not reading (or fully comprehending) this thread... just a few posts back we were discussing the poor quality control of the FiiO EM5!



To be honest, it is just poor timing for me... I had a vague idea that at least one perosn had some trouble, but couldn't find about anyone else having so. Thing is, I am behind my schedule with my reviews, and it was time for the EM5 viddy for a while....................

I actually read this thread quite often, but for the past week I haven't been able to keep up - I am catching up on work left over from last year.

(I actually searched for EM5 issues right when making the video, but there were around two - four weeks between me making it and posting it because I had to cut it and process it)

I read what happened, and I am really sorry about it 

I am hoping FiiO will fix things up and will check on the situation.

Really sorry @palestofwhite

Amazon and local sellers should replace units with new ones right away as far as I know, I will keep an eye on the subject because I have to report on it when making the full written review too, and I want to report on how the iussue was solved


----------



## slex

Has anyone own above 450 Ohm mmcx earbuds ?


----------



## furyossa

Dobrescu George said:


> To be honest, it is just poor timing for me... I had a vague idea that at least one perosn had some trouble, but couldn't find about anyone else having so. Thing is, I am behind my schedule with my reviews, and it was time for the EM5 viddy for a while....................
> 
> I actually read this thread quite often, but for the past week I haven't been able to keep up - I am catching up on work left over from last year.
> 
> ...


No need for explanation, everything is fine. You had good intentions and no one blamed you for that. Just keep up the good work.  
On this thread, we often discuss new earbuds that have not yet been placed on the market. We have mentioned Fiio many times and heard opinions of different users.
@palestofwhite was very lucky, if I can say so, because he bought the product from a local seller.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 3, 2021)

slex said:


> Has anyone own above 450 Ohm mmcx earbuds ?


Can you post the link. I never saw 450ohm 15.4mm driver.
This bud use DIY shell. Also, they came in black and silver color. These are two examples (and here is the mod and shell analysis)


----------



## slex

furyossa said:


> Can you post the link. I never saw 450ohm 15.4mm driver.
> This bud use DIY shell. Also, they came in black and silver color. These are two examples (and here is the mod and shell analysis)


It seems to appear on my local online shop ( Lazada ) which is link to Tabao in China.

Yes, this is the highest Ohm ready-made mmcx I come across too. I have forward support how it compare with the likes of Yincrow RW-1000 bass edition which I ordered to pair with Fiio UTWS3.


----------



## 40760

@Dobrescu George there is no need for apology. The EM5 are indeed an impressive sounding pair of earbuds when they work. I have already feedback to FiiiO about it and they seem to be taking it well.


----------



## slex (Feb 3, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Can you post the link. I never saw 450ohm 15.4mm driver.
> This bud use DIY shell. Also, they came in black and silver color. These are two examples (and here is the mod and shell analysis)





You can use google translate from chinese to english? 



Retail about US$53 after conversion.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 3, 2021)

slex said:


> It seems to appear on my local online shop ( Lazada ) which is link to Tabao in China.
> 
> Yes, this is the highest Ohm ready-made mmcx I come across too. I have forward support how it compare with the likes of Yincrow RW-1000 bass edition which I ordered to pair with Fiio UTWS3.


If it has some "exotic" coating that can be superior then RW-1000. At the moment, on Ali, in that rank, they can be found 400ohm and 500ohm graphene drivers which sound very good as stock but with little tuning... oh boy!


----------



## slex

furyossa said:


> If it has some "exotic" coating that can be superior then RW-1000. At the moment, on Ali, in that rank, they can be found 400ohm and 500ohm graphene drivers which sound very good as stock but with little tuning... oh boy!


Yes I imagine too, with good amping those big number ohms with bring out more definitions of detail in SQ.


----------



## furyossa

slex said:


> Yes I imagine too, with good amping those big number ohms with bring out more definitions of detail in SQ.


not only that, you not need to worry much about distortion. For $53 it' a good deal, it would cost you about the same to buy all the parts and assemble it yourself


----------



## slex (Feb 3, 2021)

furyossa said:


> not only that, you not need to worry much about distortion. For $53 it' a good deal, it would cost you about the same to buy all the parts and assemble it yourself


ok point taken, also can you comment about wooden shell type earbuds, what it brings to the table, does the resonance of wood impact quality of frequency? Just like ZMF headphones perhaps.😊I'm looking at the Tiandirenhe wooden shell earbuds...


----------



## baskingshark

slex said:


> Has anyone own above 450 Ohm mmcx earbuds ?



Thanks for the headsup. The link is here:
https://www.lazada.sg/products/diy-...balance-earphone-i1372152282-s5905748916.html

It looks very interesting, but I saw that they called this earbud *"female poison"*:




The Chinese domestic market likes boosted upper mids/lower treble, cause a lot of their music incorporates female vocals. They use the term "musical poison" 毒音 or "female poison" as such to describe this boosted area. Westerners may find this fatiguing (I'm one of those), but i guess it also depends on your music genres and hearing health and preferred sound signatures, but a pity, I'm gonna give this a miss.


----------



## slex

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for the headsup. The link is here:
> https://www.lazada.sg/products/diy-...balance-earphone-i1372152282-s5905748916.html
> 
> It looks very interesting, but I saw that they called this earbud *"female poison"*:
> ...


Female Poison for male listener? Male Poison for Female listener..😄😊👍


----------



## furyossa (Feb 3, 2021)

slex said:


> ok point taken, also can you comment about wooden shell type earbuds, what it brings to the table, does the resonance of wood impact quality of frequency? Just like ZMF headphones perhaps.😊I'm looking at the Tiandirenhe wooden shell earbuds...


Primarily depends on the type of wood used. It is similar with instruments. For me personally the resonance of wood is pleasant and gives warmth to the sound.
Secondary, it depends on the driver itself, namely I would recommend wooden shells in combination with non-bass-centric drivers.
Also, with drivers who have fast bass response, it is a real pleasure.
One of the things that should also be considered is fit, definitely not for everyone (convex arc shape)


----------



## rkw

slex said:


> Yes, this is the highest Ohm ready-made mmcx I come across too.


There is a 600 ohm from Yinman: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32817689863.html


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for the headsup. The link is here:
> https://www.lazada.sg/products/diy-...balance-earphone-i1372152282-s5905748916.html
> 
> It looks very interesting, but I saw that they called this earbud *"female poison"*:
> ...


someone joked about titles like this. He felt that these earbuds were not recommended for the female population because of their toxic nature


----------



## slex

rkw said:


> There is a 600 ohm from Yinman: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32817689863.html


Hmm, 600 Ohm in a wooden shell, looks interesting!👍


----------



## furyossa

slex said:


> Hmm, 600 Ohm in a wooden shell, looks interesting!👍


hmmm.... In that case I will rather go with metal shells


----------



## slex

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for the headsup. The link is here:
> https://www.lazada.sg/products/diy-...balance-earphone-i1372152282-s5905748916.html
> 
> It looks very interesting, but I saw that they called this earbud *"female poison"*:
> ...






I found one " Female Poison" 😄😊


----------



## slex

furyossa said:


> hmmm.... In that case I will rather go with metal shells


May I ask why is that so?😊


----------



## furyossa

slex said:


> May I ask why is that so?😊


There are currently a couple of drivers with an impedance of 600ohm, and they all have very good bass so they don’t need extra warmth.
I currently only have a 600ohm Bery whose bass has authority in the true sense of the word. Highs are the only area that needs to be improved.
In metal shells, which have low resonance, this driver sound ultra clear


----------



## slex

furyossa said:


> There are currently a couple of drivers with an impedance of 600ohm, and they all have very good bass so they don’t need extra warmth.
> I currently only have a 600ohm Bery whose bass has authority in the true sense of the word. Highs are the only area that needs to be improved.
> In metal shells, which have low resonance, this driver sound ultra clear


ok point taken again and thanks. I think the only missing link to earbuds wearing is the fit and grip. I  hope there's a TPE ( Xelastec) donut cover built for earbud's enthusiast in future.


----------



## 40760

furyossa said:


> There are currently a couple of drivers with an impedance of 600ohm, and they all have very good bass so they don’t need extra warmth.
> I currently only have a 600ohm Bery whose bass has authority in the true sense of the word. Highs are the only area that needs to be improved.
> In metal shells, which have low resonance, this driver sound ultra clear



I think there are only a small handful of "branded" 600ohm earbuds in the market. Are you familiar with the TONEKING TO600?


----------



## kakaworu

slex said:


> Hmm, 600 Ohm in a wooden shell, looks interesting!👍


130ohm Beryllium is awesome in wood shells.


----------



## slex

kakaworu said:


> 130ohm Beryllium is awesome in wood shells.


Pique my interest 😊Can direct me to it?


----------



## kakaworu (Feb 4, 2021)

slex said:


> Pique my interest 😊Can direct me to it?


https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.17992e8djPP8dq&id=618283032373&_u=41ij4e8p21b8
This guy sells both drivers and assembled sets. Unfortunately he has no Ali store. And I haven't seen any other stores selling 130 bery assembled in wood shells.
I have bought 7 sets of K130 berys from him. only one among these was assembled in MX500 shell but I found them sound way better in wood shells.


----------



## furyossa

slex said:


> Pique my interest 😊Can direct me to it?


Sure if you want to build it by yourself. 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33047315914.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000808713210.html
or mmcx https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000884161880.html


----------



## furyossa (Feb 4, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> I think there are only a small handful of "branded" 600ohm earbuds in the market. Are you familiar with the TONEKING TO600?


Toneking uses a type of shell that doesn’t suit me, so I skipped them.
If you are interested in "power hungry" models don't miss this one, and review


----------



## slex

furyossa said:


> Sure if you want to build it by yourself.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33047315914.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000808713210.html
> or mmcx https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000884161880.html


I might find time during my retirement!😊👍


----------



## furyossa (Feb 4, 2021)

slex said:


> I might find time during my retirement!😊👍


You need at least 15-30min to assemble this and you want to wait retirement. Come on, man! 
Now you really disappoint me, so it's a shorter time than what we've been typing so far


----------



## slex

furyossa said:


> You need at least 15-30min to assemble this and you want to wait retirement. Come on, man!
> You really disappoint me, so it's a shorter time than what we've been typing so far


I'm no expert like you!😆👍


----------



## furyossa

slex said:


> I'm no expert like you!😆👍


Who says I'm an expert  You don't need expertise for this just a little patience and nerves. That's all. Of course, the tools


----------



## slex

furyossa said:


> Who says I'm an expert  You don't need expertise for this just a little patience and nerves. That's all. Of course, the tools


Ok, when you see me in DIY section, I'm sure to consult you!👍😊


----------



## chinmie

rkw said:


> There is a 600 ohm from Yinman: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32817689863.html



i tried that one long ago, i quite like the sound of it


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> Who says I'm an expert  You don't need expertise for this just a little patience and nerves. That's all. Of course, the tools



I do not see myself qualified to carry out that assembly and that later it works would only be a miracle.


----------



## theoutsider

Fresh new toy has arrived ~!

Dual dynamic earbuds


----------



## cappuchino

*THESE EARHOOKS ARE GOD-SENT!!!!*

For those that haven't tried their earbuds over-ear or have tried them but encountered problems, this is the ANSWER!



*Used a metal wire cause the end part was a bit loose. Didn't affect comfort one bit.


----------



## furyossa

theoutsider said:


> Fresh new toy has arrived ~!
> 
> Dual dynamic earbuds


Show as more  Do not be shy


----------



## 40760

furyossa said:


> Show as more  Do not be shy



I agree... we need to see what this is...


----------



## furyossa

sub30 said:


> *THESE EARHOOKS ARE GOD-SENT!!!!*
> 
> For those that haven't tried their earbuds over-ear or have tried them but encountered problems, this is the ANSWER!
> 
> ...


U can use heat shrink tube, let's say blue and red, cut the small peaces and add at the end of earhooks. Then you will have the markings for the left and right side


----------



## cappuchino

furyossa said:


> U can use heat shrink tube, let's say blue and red, cut the small peaces and add at the end of earhooks. Then you will have the markings for the left and right side


Don't have one on hand but thanks for the suggestion. I guess the black wire also serves that purpose 🤣


----------



## furyossa

sub30 said:


> Don't have one on hand but thanks for the suggestion. I guess the black wire also serves that purpose 🤣


It's ugly for sure  Go in hardware store you can get for free 2 tubes


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> U can use heat shrink tube, let's say blue and red, cut the small peaces and add at the end of earhooks. Then you will have the markings for the left and right side



Those ear hooks have a split lengthwise along them. The heat shrink will have to be installed while earbud/housing is disconnected. Easy on MMCX/2pin earbuds... not so easy on non-detachable ones (unless re-cabling).


----------



## WoodyLuvr

assassin10000 said:


> Those ear hooks have a split lengthwise along them. The heat shrink will have to be installed while earbud/housing is disconnected. Easy on MMCX/2pin earbuds... not so easy on non-detachable ones (unless re-cabling).


Exactly what I was thinking but was like "maybe they know something I don't!"


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Those ear hooks have a split lengthwise along them. The heat shrink will have to be installed while earbud/housing is disconnected. Easy on MMCX/2pin earbuds... not so easy on non-detachable ones (unless re-cabling).


I don't know, maybe this little rubber rings for dart barrel can be added on a few places alongside earhook?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32821347755.html
I use this also for mmcx on metal shells


WoodyLuvr said:


> Exactly what I was thinking but was like "maybe they know something I don't!"


I don't like them (earhooks) because of that


----------



## astermk

What might be the most helpful resource for a total beginner to read up about making DIY earbuds?


----------



## docentore

Folks, any 14.2mm drivers  that are worthy? I have tried to mod Smabat M1  and broke one of the drivers. Not biggie since I hated how they sounded out of the box.


----------



## assassin10000

astermk said:


> What might be the most helpful resource for a total beginner to read up about making DIY earbuds?



Lots of info here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/



docentore said:


> Folks, any 14.2mm drivers  that are worthy? I have tried to mod Smabat M1  and broke one of the drivers. Not biggie since I hated how they sounded out of the box.



I no longer have them but IIRC they use the same covers as some 14.8mm drivers. Very few DIY 14.2mm drivers afaik.

I'd also check here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/


----------



## theoutsider

palestofwhite said:


> I agree... we need to see what this is...





furyossa said:


> Show as more  Do not be shy







It is a random neckband bluetooth earphone. The tips are reminiscent of Bose QC20 and other shark-fin earbuds. I actually prefer such form factor to MX500 design.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Another *Earbuds Paradise* Update...


----------



## RikudouGoku

Got the NiceHCK EBX21 on the way (review unit). 

No idea what to expect though.


----------



## FranQL

RikudouGoku said:


> Got the NiceHCK EBX21 on the way (review unit).
> 
> No idea what to expect though.



I find the design very attractive.


----------



## MelodyMood (Feb 4, 2021)

Dobrescu George said:


> If you enjoy earbuds, FiO EM5 should be right up your alley. A bit on the expensive side, but they sound the part, and come with a modular cable, so good stuff from FiiO and their latest IEM
> 
> I review them in video on Youtube, and I do my best to include comparisons, B-Rolls and more info about earbuds in general : )




That is $400+ earbuds. Who will buy such expensive ones? I think you accidently posted it here instead of some millionaires' thread/forum


----------



## chinmie

MelodyMood said:


> That is $400+ earbuds. Who will buy such expensive ones? I think you accidently posted it here instead of some millionaires' thread/forum



there were more expensive earbuds than this one popping up here. this is after all an earbud thread, so any price tier earbuds would be eligible  

there are specific budget only earbuds thread here if I'm not mistaken.. maybe someone can provide a link?


----------



## slex

chinmie said:


> there were more expensive earbuds than this one popping up here. this is after all an earbud thread, so any price tier earbuds would be eligible
> 
> there are specific budget only earbuds thread here if I'm not mistaken.. maybe someone can provide a link?





Most expensive I've seen so far! 😆


----------



## furyossa

slex said:


> Most expensive I've seen so far! 😆


When you post image always post the link 
This little "speaker" buds use stabilized wood for shells. They probably go str8 into ear canal. Interesting design.
It seems to me to be the diameter of the driver 8-10mm


----------



## slex

furyossa said:


> When you post image always post the link
> This little "speaker" buds use stabilized wood for shells. They probably go str8 into ear canal. Interesting design.
> It seems to me to be the diameter of the driver 8-10mm


Pieso bro..😄


----------



## baskingshark

chinmie said:


> there were more expensive earbuds than this one popping up here. this is after all an earbud thread, so any price tier earbuds would be eligible
> 
> there are specific budget only earbuds thread here if I'm not mistaken.. maybe someone can provide a link?



There's a headfi absolute best budget earbuds thread here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/absolute-best-budget-earbuds.812853/

But that thread isn't as well subscribed as this earbuds thread we are in now, and I feel there's lots of overlap and superfluous discussions there when compared to this thread. Well lots of overlap in other threads occur on headfi eg Chinese brands thread vs sub $100 thread vs the individual brand threads vs sponsor manufacturer threads, so I guess that's part of the territory.


----------



## chinmie

baskingshark said:


> There's a headfi absolute best budget earbuds thread here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/absolute-best-budget-earbuds.812853/
> 
> But that thread isn't as well subscribed as this earbuds thread we are in now, and I feel there's lots of overlap and superfluous discussions there when compared to this thread. Well lots of overlap in other threads occur on headfi eg Chinese brands thread vs sub $100 thread vs the individual brand threads vs sponsor manufacturer threads, so I guess that's part of the territory.



yes.. i also unsubbed from that thread, because i feel that this one is sufficient enough, and having that thread also would just spread the information too thin on this already quite segmented earbuds subject


----------



## MelodyMood

No budget limit but I am just wondering that the people who buys $400 or even more expensive buds, must  be very rich for sure.


----------



## rkw

MelodyMood said:


> No budget limit but I am just wondering that the people who buys $400 or even more expensive buds, must  be very rich for sure.


Everything is relative. Buds are cheap compared to IEMs, where $400 is only mid-level and run up to thousands in the high end.


----------



## MelodyMood

rkw said:


> Everything is relative. Buds are cheap compared to IEMs, where $400 is only mid-level and run up to thousands in the high end.


Well, I am simple common man so anything above 20-30 is big amount for me  So all my buds are from $5 to $25-30 only


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Feb 5, 2021)

MelodyMood said:


> That is $400+ earbuds. Who will buy such expensive ones? I think you accidently posted it here instead of some millionaires' thread/forum





MelodyMood said:


> No budget limit but I am just wondering that the people who buys $400 or even more expensive buds, must  be very rich for sure.





MelodyMood said:


> Well, I am simple common man so anything above 20-30 is big amount for me  So all my buds are from $5 to $25-30 only


Another perspective to mull over...

Simple common men do easily justify and spend hundreds, thousands, if not tens of thousands on cars, boats, guns & ammo, booze, and women. Doesn't always mean it is money well spent and/or logical! It is simply a level of "spend" relative to the level of "passion" one has for their particular "hobbies" and "likes".

For me, my wife and listening to music/earbuds, are really my only hobbies outside of daily fitness training and tending a few bonsai trees which nearly costs me nothing. So a few hundred dollars spent here and there on my wife, earbuds, and music files is justified in my case. Most especially as I use earbuds, eight to twelve hours daily, while sitting at the computer and therefore spend extra to get the comfort I require... and I value my life so "a happy wife equals a happy life!"

As acquired from my previous career: "always take care of your eyes and feet, spoil 'em whenever you can". I have now adopted the same mantra for my ears and my lil Siamese wife... "spoil 'em!" Seems to be working as they are both very pleased!


----------



## FranQL

MelodyMood said:


> No budget limit but I am just wondering that the people who buys $400 or even more expensive buds, must  be very rich for sure.



Well, this issue of the budget always attracts attention, but you always have to respect, that is, there are people who can invest € 500 in a bud, € 1500 in an iem, yes, there are also those who spend € 500 on a cable , or € 1500 on an amp / dac.

Each one invests in this hobby what he wants and what he can, something that for you may be prohibitive, for someone else it is his budget. That other person may think that spending € 15 is a waste of money. I always respect it, although I do not see it logical to invest, for example, in an iem what the best television / computer on the market costs (I am sure that behind an IEM for example there is no R&D behind it as in other industries, although they will not sell a huge amount either), no matter how good it sounds, it goes against my principles, but they are mine, other people have their own circumstances or they simply prefer to spend their money on audio and not on other things


----------



## FranQL

Also, not to be hypocritical ... if you could spend what EM5 costs without money worries, would you buy it?

Probably yes....


----------



## 40760

FranQL said:


> Also, not to be hypocritical ... if you could spend what EM5 costs without money worries, would you buy it?
> 
> Probably yes....



Buy it if you can get really good discounts. Like how I always do, even with the EM5...


----------



## slex

I have forwarded an email to Azla Korea requesting to make a universal TPE ( Xelastec) donuts for earbuds, got an reply  back "
We will seriously think about that solution you gave us".

Hopefully it will come into fruition one day!😊


----------



## WoodyLuvr

slex said:


> I have forwarded an email to Azla Korea requesting to make a universal TPE ( Xelastec) donuts for earbuds, got an reply  back "
> We will seriously think about that solution you gave us".
> 
> Hopefully it will come into fruition one day!😊


Wow! 🤞 That would indeed be an amazing product as I have read that Azla's tips are amazingly comfortable and cool, more so than normal silicon tips. I wonder if it would help at all if more of us make a similar request of Azla?


----------



## furyossa

palestofwhite said:


> Buy it if you can get really good discounts. Like how I always do, even with the EM5...


Yeah, yeah, you have already become famous with the EM5 model. 
BTW ... Is everything okay now?


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Wow! 🤞 That would indeed be an amazing product as I have read that Azla's tips are amazingly comfortable and cool, more so than normal silicon tips. I wonder if it would help at all if more of us make a similar request of Azla?


That's why I think that this concept is not so bad.


----------



## slex

WoodyLuvr said:


> Wow! 🤞 That would indeed be an amazing product as I have read that Azla's tips are amazingly comfortable and cool, more so than normal silicon tips. I wonder if it would help at all if more of us make a similar request of Azla?


😊👍The more the merrier!


----------



## slex

furyossa said:


> That's why I think that this concept is not so bad.


It's the grip of the sticky Xelastec that counts, so we dun loose the Bassssssssss!☺️


----------



## baskingshark (Feb 5, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Another perspective to mull over...
> 
> Simple common men do easily justify and spend hundreds, thousands, if not tens of thousands on cars, boats, guns & ammo, booze, and women. Doesn't always mean it is money well spent and/or logical! It is simply a level of "spend" relative to the level of "passion" one has for their particular "hobbies" and "likes".
> 
> ...



Actually in the big scheme of things, I think the audio hobby isn't as pricey as some other hobbies like cars, watches, photography and others. We could have worse addictions, like drugs or alcohol? I think the past 2 - 3 years especially, has been a great time to join this hobby, for CHIFI IEMs and earbuds at least. CHIFI has flooded the market with good offerings at superb price to performance ratio, such that we don't need to be held ransom to some boutique brands in needing to sell a kidney to buy an IEM. The barrier to entry is getting lower and lower to enjoy a small taste of audio nirvana, it is quite accessible for $20 or less now to get a nice earbud.

Even among audio gear, I think earbuds are the most cost effective compared to headphones or even full sized speaker setups. I have a friend that is into speakers and he had to design the room to suit the speakers, including treating and sound proofing the walls and angling the ceiling/walls to give him the best sound. Even carpeting and positioning of the speakers is of paramount importance. Best part is that after spending tens of thousands on his room and speakers (including some 1000 dollar cable!), he got a complaint from his neighbour about the subwoofers causing vibrations. So a pity he cannot use them at certain night hours!

Earbuds and IEMs are also very easy to conceal, so the adage "a happy wife equals a happy life" can be easily fulfilled here (cause what audio gear the wife doesn't see, she doesn't know, ignorance is bliss). All MX500 shells look the same to her LOL!


----------



## 40760

furyossa said:


> Yeah, yeah, you have already become famous with the EM5 model.
> BTW ... Is everything okay now?



So far so good when it comes to sound. I'm trying not push it too much and taking extra care of this one.

Not that big of a deal, but I also noticed a small quirk. The FiiO logo on the metal splitter is facing backwards when worn.
Not sure if they did it this way to be more discrete, but I thought logos were printed to be shown?


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> All MX500 shells look the same to her LOL!


We also look at their collection of shoes, jewelry, makeup and many other little things in the same way


----------



## 40760

I almost always only get black colored shells, so they are even more "the same" looking.


----------



## furyossa

palestofwhite said:


> Not sure if they did it this way to be more discrete, but I thought logos were printed to be shown?


Don't be nit-picky.  Enjoy in working pair, that's all that matters now


----------



## 40760

Some reviewer claimed that RW-9 is the same sounding as X6 but with better built. Is that true?


----------



## RikudouGoku

palestofwhite said:


> Some reviewer claimed that RW-9 is the same sounding as X6 but with better built. Is that true?


no lol.

The shell itself is identical, better cable though.

Sound is more V-shaped than the L-shaped X6. More bass quantity but also more bloated, recessed mids and a bit higher treble quantity that gives the illusion of it being more detailed. 

X6 is the better tuned bud in my opinion.


----------



## 40760 (Feb 5, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> no lol.
> 
> The shell itself is identical, better cable though.
> 
> ...



Before I purchase a pair, do you happen to know if the glossy or matte shells make any difference in these?

I remembered one earbud model was mentioned that the solid shells sounded better than the clear ones.


----------



## furyossa

palestofwhite said:


> Before I purchase a pair, do you happen to know if the glossy or matte shells make any difference in these?
> 
> I remembered one earbud model was mentioned that the solid shells sounded better than the clear ones.


Yup. Solid (Opaque) and Clear (Transparent) are two different plastic materials. Clear is cheaper and is more prone to resonance.
Glossy and matte are just type of finish and have nothing to do with sound


----------



## RikudouGoku

palestofwhite said:


> Before I purchase a pair, do you happen to know if the glossy or matte shells make any difference in these?
> 
> I remembered one earbud model was mentioned that the solid shells sounded better than the clear ones.


No info on that. 

I got the red version (red shell/cable, no mic) on the X6 and the blue on the RW-9.









ehm, I saw this just now. What is this??? Same shell but different cable? Is it new?


----------



## furyossa (Feb 5, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> No info on that.
> 
> I got the red version (red shell/cable, no mic) on the X6 and the blue on the RW-9.
> 
> ...


Most of the MX500 shells painted in red or white have glossy finish and blue and black matte finish.
Also silver, gold, and rose red have metalic finish which is susceptible to peeling (fake Tingo's)


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> ehm, I saw this just now. What is this??? Same shell but different cable? Is it new?


Looks cool in yellow? Any microphonics in red cable?


----------



## 40760

Alright... I think I'll get the black one...


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Looks cool in yellow? Any microphonics in red cable?


yes there are microphonics, but my main complaint is that it feels bad to my fingers (very rubbery).


----------



## furyossa (Feb 5, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> yes there are microphonics, but my main complaint is that it feels bad to my fingers (very rubbery).


Yincrow uses this cable
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32967091574.html






The same characteristics have these two cables (very rubbery, white one over time become yellow)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32273393039.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32684911951.html









This is what it looks like when you make one cable from these two.
I have these two cables that I removed from some earbuds. Instead of throwing them away, I cut them into pieces and build a custom cable for sleeping buds 





Now my TOP 3 thin cables
#1 "*Goddess*" cable https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32811244036.html
#2 "*Furukawa*" cable https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2054208254.html
#3 "*Tiger*" cable https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000272863965.html


----------



## Toom

MelodyMood said:


> That is $400+ earbuds. Who will buy such expensive ones? I think you accidently posted it here instead of some millionaires' thread/forum



I have a pair. And yes, I am a billionaire.


----------



## 40760

Already ordered the X6 but will only be shipped out mid of this month after the Chinese holidays.


----------



## earfanatic

Same as mine.


palestofwhite said:


> Already ordered the X6 but will only be shipped out mid of this month after the Chinese holidays.


Same as mine.


----------



## astermk

I got lucky with my NiceHCK DIY MX500, it was already out of China two days ago. Although I suppose there are other places where it could get stuck along the way, maybe Singapore. But hopefully won't happen.


----------



## mika91

Hi,

I currently own NiceHCK EBX and I'm very pleased with its sound signature, but I need a new pair that fit better in the ears (biking), and with a decent mic in the cable. (phone call + casual online gaming with friends)

I'm looking something with a low impedance like the EBX (32ohm), great quality and sound, and confortable (Nicehck DIY mx760 graphene housing were the best match to my ears morphology so far)

Do you have any suggestions?
Thanks


----------



## furyossa (Feb 6, 2021)

mika91 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I currently own NiceHCK EBX and I'm very pleased with its sound signature, but I need a new pair that fit better in the ears (biking), and with a decent mic in the cable. (phone call + casual online gaming with friends)
> 
> ...


I love EBX buds but the only cables that I use with it is the NiceHCK 16-core balanced cable and 8-core 3.5mm SE cable. I will always suggest the buds with detachable cable when you want option with the mic. 
For example RY4S Plus buds have mmcx sockets, and you can use cable with or without mic. I don't use mic cables and I don't know which cable is the best option for you.
You can try this combo RY4S Plus (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html) and Faael mic cable (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32682271127.html)
Also, Faaeal has some buds with mic cable (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32963585420.html).
Yincrow X6 is often mentioned on this thread as one of the better models, and luckily for you, it also has a variant with a microphone (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32809743166.html)


----------



## KokushiTsumo

palestofwhite said:


> Already ordered the X6 but will only be shipped out mid of this month after the Chinese holidays.


Just got my pair yesterday, you won't be disappointed. Well worth the wait.


----------



## mika91

furyossa said:


> I love EBX buds but the only cables that I use with it is the NiceHCK 16-core balanced cable and 8-core 3.5mm SE cable. I will always suggest the buds with detachable cable when you want option with the mic.
> For example RY4S Plus buds have mmcx sockets, and you can use cable with or without mic. I don't use mic cables and I don't know which cable is the best option for you.
> You can try this combo RY4S Plus (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html) and Faael mic cable (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32682271127.html)
> Also, Faaeal has some buds with mic cable (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32963585420.html).
> Yincrow X6 is often mentioned on this thread as one of the better models, and luckily for you, it also has a variant with a microphone (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32809743166.html)


Thanks.
It’s really inexpensive buds!
Guess EBX may sounds better, but for the price,  I’ll order one pair with a mic cable!


----------



## furyossa

mika91 said:


> Thanks.
> It’s really inexpensive buds!
> Guess EBX may sounds better, but for the price,  I’ll order one pair with a mic cable!


No one knows how good the microphones on these cables are. But it's not expensive to try either


----------



## Danny23

Im overwhelmed with all these options! What would people recommend <$50? Solid bass (M50 type sig) with mic, good quality material (metal/wood, avoiding cheap plastic if possible) Driven from iPhone, electronic, hip hop rnb.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 6, 2021)

Danny23 said:


> Im overwhelmed with all these options! What would people recommend <$50? Solid bass (M50 type sig) with mic, good quality material (metal/wood, avoiding cheap plastic if possible) Driven from iPhone, electronic, hip hop rnb.


See this model https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/hifi-boy-dream.22866/reviews.
PenonAudio Store link
You will hardly be able to find all this from your wish list in any model. Another option would be a model with a replacement cable. Search Penon Audio Store, there are some more interesting offers.


----------



## 40760

Was surprised my X6 was shipped out today...


----------



## RikudouGoku

Looks like the bud itself is 115 usd lol. 
(or that cable is massively overpriced, which it definitely is not. /s)


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Looks like the bud itself is 115 usd lol.
> (or that cable is massively overpriced, which it definitely is not. /s)


wow that pricing breakdown is ridiculous. Not a lot of buds ship with pentaconn termination. I'm wondering if that's why they think they can get away with charging so much for it.


----------



## Sam L (Feb 8, 2021)

Several weeks ago I broke out an old camera I've not used for nearly 9 years. I figured it was time to contribute to the world of earbuds with some pics and eventually some reviews of the earbuds I compensate. Tonight I brought out some lighting eq but I'm still uncertain what software I'll be using. I'll have to figure out what's changed over the years and I'm too cheap to spring for a photoshop license, though I'll prob end up going that route. Not bad for my second shot in 9 years. (first one was of the me80, posted on this thread awhile back.


----------



## FranQL

Sam L said:


> wow that pricing breakdown is ridiculous. Not a lot of buds ship with pentaconn termination. I'm wondering if that's why they think they can get away with charging so much for it.



It's ridiculous, today for € 50 you can buy a better quality cable and also with interchangeable jacks ...


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 5, 2022)

*SONY MDR-E SERIES TIMELINE & MODEL KEY*


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Product Naming Nomenclature for the *MDR-E* *Series Earphones*
> 
> Sony debuted it's first "earbud" type ear receiver the MDR-E252 in June 1982 and thus began the earphone line we now know as the *E Series*. However, there was an even earlier and little known "on-ear" Ear Hook Ear Receiver series composed of two models the MDR-E3 Mono Ear Hook and MDR-E33 Stereo Ear Hook, which had debuted a full year before the MDR-E252 in June 1981. So the *MDR-E Series* is actually composed of three different headphone types: the ear hook ear receiver, the earbud earphone, and the mono side earplug and further broken down into the following subs: Ear Hook Series (e.g. E3/5/22/33); Earphone 2 Series (e.g. E252/282); Earphone 4 Series (e.g. E484); Earphone 5 Series (e.g. E575); Earphone 7 Series (e.g. E747); Earphone 8 Series (e.g. E868/888; Earphone 9 Series (e.g. E930/931/0931); and the Mono Side Earplug 1 & 2 Series (E123/140C/142/148/152/165/228/248/278).
> 
> ...


on that note, sony doesnt have any new earbuds right?

Because I saw that there is a sony bud in a local store here.


The sony MDR-E9LPB, anyone know if it is good?

If it is, I kinda want it being a sony fanboy lol.


----------



## Danny23

I ordered the BLON BL03s and I can't for the life of me to get them to fit, but the sound is exactly what im looking for.  Are there any buds anyone can recommend under the same budget and sound? I've been recommended Hifi Boy Dream so far so if there's no advances on that I'll give them a go.  My preference would to be able to order from somewhere like amazon so I can do easy/free returns if they don't fit/I don't like the sound.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Danny23 said:


> I ordered the BLON BL03s and I can't for the life of me to get them to fit, but the sound is exactly what im looking for.  Are there any buds anyone can recommend under the same budget and sound? I've been recommended Hifi Boy Dream so far so if there's no advances on that I'll give them a go.  My preference would to be able to order from somewhere like amazon so I can do easy/free returns if they don't fit/I don't like the sound.


I say that the Yincrow X6 is the most similar, but of course both being different transducers, it is still going to be different (but I guess you know that).


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Feb 8, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> on that note, sony doesnt have any new earbuds right?
> 
> Because I saw that there is a sony bud in a local store here.
> 
> ...


*Sony MDR-E9LPB*
■ LP: L-Type Plug
■ B: Black Shell Color
■ Debut Year: 2010
■ Driver/Diaphragm: 13.5mm open air dynamic dome type; PET (Mylar); Neodymium magnet
■ Impedance: 16Ω
■ Sensitivity: 104dB/mW
■ Frequency Response: 18-22,000Hz
■ Max Power Input: 100mW

I have listened to two different pairs on separate occasions and they both sounded horrendous to me. Baffling as they were not Sony-like at all; very disappointing. YEMV.

The newer rebadged same internals model MDR-E10LP is just as bad if not worse sounding!


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Sony MDR-E9LPB*
> ■ LP: L-Type Plug
> ■ B: Black Shell Color
> ■ Debut Year: 2010
> ...


I suspected that. The ratings on the store was bad lol. (I did think it was due to the people here mostly wanting beats/mainstream like sound lol.)


----------



## RikudouGoku

....omg





AKG, seriously why....those are IEMS!!! NOT EARBUDS!!!!


----------



## furyossa (Feb 8, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Sony MDR-E9LPB*
> ■ LP: L-Type Plug
> ■ B: Black Shell Color
> ■ Debut Year: 2010
> ...


*MDR-E9LPB* is one of the ugliest earbuds I have ever seen.  And not only do they not sound like Sony, but the design itself is hilarious.




It reminds me of those "gummy", "bubble" or whatever they called, series, coated with rubber in several colors.
*MDR-E10LPB *are a little nicer especially with all these combinations. I can bet this model can be bought in any candy shop. 





This one (*JVC GUMMY HAF160*) I tried ... 10 seconds and .... no comment. Colors palette are spectacular  All these versions sound the same but taste different  





And the winner is Panasonic without doubt. Looks like gum


----------



## furyossa (Feb 8, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> ....omg
> 
> 
> AKG, seriously why....those are IEMS!!! NOT EARBUDS!!!!


When it comes to AKG I can freely say that the Y16A is one of the nice looking models - elegant form with precise arc contours. It is a pity that the sound quality is not at a higher level. Treble centric buds for sure.


----------



## Danny23

RikudouGoku said:


> I say that the Yincrow X6 is the most similar, but of course both being different transducers, it is still going to be different (but I guess you know that).



Yeah they seem widely recommended, was hoping for something with a nicer material but I don't think you can really complain at that price.  Would you still say X6 over the RW-9 if I prioritise bass? I do like a little rumble.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Danny23 said:


> Yeah they seem widely recommended, was hoping for something with a nicer material but I don't think you can really complain at that price.  Would you still say X6 over the RW-9 if I prioritise bass? I do like a little rumble.


The RW-9 has more bass quantity than the X6 but at the cost of some quality to me. If that is fine for you, then go ahead with the RW-9 (it also has a better cable).


----------



## FranQL

Danny23 said:


> Yeah they seem widely recommended, was hoping for something with a nicer material but I don't think you can really complain at that price.  Would you still say X6 over the RW-9 if I prioritise bass? I do like a little rumble.



I have ry4s plus, it has quite nice bass. But like Blon BL3 .... no.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 8, 2021)

FranQL said:


> I have ry4s plus, it has quite nice bass. But like Blon BL3 .... no.


Ok here we go again   vs 
I agree. You compare buds that are 3 times cheaper than BL-03.
This is a great example because the BL-03 is almost 3 times better

Now let's compare earphones with similar hardware. DX5 vs BL-03.
Both models have DLC driver, metal shell. The main difference is that the DX5 is three times more expensive but in terms of sound quality (tuning), it is 1/3 of BL-03.
RY4S Plus is still champion with everything it offers for less than $10


----------



## FranQL

the comparison with bl3 is only because you have indicated that you are looking for such a sound. But I can't give you the reason in this case. Regardless of the price, blon is reinforced in bass, but that is not synonymous with it being better. you have others at the same or similar price that sound just as good without those bass. It depends on your tastes. In my case, I can live without the swollen bass perfectly, and when I feel like something more forceful I look for blon or others (which for me there are better in this field).


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> the comparison with bl3 is only because you have indicated that you are looking for such a sound. But I can't give you the reason in this case. Regardless of the price, blon is reinforced in bass, but that is not synonymous with it being better. you have others at the same or similar price that sound just as good without those bass. It depends on your tastes. In my case, I can live without the swollen bass perfectly, and when I feel like something more forceful I look for blon or others (which for me there are better in this field).


To explain why I love this shark, it would take a long time and I think I would break the rule of this forum because this is a thread about dolphins.
Sometimes I'm afraid to turn up the sound on the sharks because I'm afraid they'll bite off my ears


----------



## Danny23

Has anyone tried any of these OPENHEART buds?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001180479742.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.1.5f225294NqzskO

The styling is just beautiful, exactly what id choose, but obviously interested in how they sound.  I am most likely gonna order the X6 tonight anyway, but if I can have another pair with this metal casing style which sound good im all over them!


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> ....omg
> 
> 
> AKG, seriously why....those are IEMS!!! NOT EARBUDS!!!!



This is a very common issue, even on other audio manufacturer sites and on audio forums. I've seen a lot of folks interchangably using the terms IEMs, earbuds, earphones as an umbrella term to refer to any audio gear.

I guess only us folks in this thread will get worked up over the wrong terminology hahaha.


----------



## chinmie

Danny23 said:


> I ordered the BLON BL03s and I can't for the life of me to get them to fit, but the sound is exactly what im looking for.  Are there any buds anyone can recommend under the same budget and sound? I've been recommended Hifi Boy Dream so far so if there's no advances on that I'll give them a go.  My preference would to be able to order from somewhere like amazon so I can do easy/free returns if they don't fit/I don't like the sound.



the most similar to the BL03 that i can remember was that Auglamour RX1, maybe? but that's a long time ago, and i still think you'd be better off with the BL03 and find the right eartips.


----------



## earfanatic

elvispreasley said:


> Anyone listened PT2021 already, btw?


I only foud some notes about it in a translated forum (I think it was russian), that it differ in sound from EM5. Low frequency wasn't that great according to that.
I try to relocate the site, then post a link here.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

elvispreasley said:


> Anyone listened PT2021 already, btw?


Yes. Airy, wide and deep stage, neutral sound, bass not for basshead, need change mmcx cable to better for make high frequencies more noticeable and cleaner


----------



## 40760

Alex.Grimm said:


> Yes. Airy, wide and deep stage, neutral sound, bass not for basshead, need change mmcx cable to better for make high frequencies more noticeable and cleaner



I thought the cable that comes with it is quite a premium one? If that needs to be changed then it will be really costly to get this pair right...


----------



## FranQL

Alex.Grimm said:


> Yes. Airy, wide and deep stage, neutral sound, bass not for basshead, need change mmcx cable to better for make high frequencies more noticeable and cleaner



The price is worth it?


----------



## FranQL

palestofwhite said:


> I thought the cable that comes with it is quite a premium one? If that needs to be changed then it will be really costly to get this pair right...



In my case it is not a problem, I always put a balanced with 2.5. If I need 3.5 I use an adapter.


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> In my case it is not a problem, I always put a balanced with 2.5. If I need 3.5 I use an adapter.


Are you planning to pull the trigger?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

FranQL said:


> The price is worth it?


PT2021 correspond to their price, but there was no wow effect, I liked only the airiness of the sound. I'm waiting for the 365-ohm version to appear on Ali. I have many other more expensive earbuds that I like better.


----------



## 40760 (Feb 10, 2021)

FranQL said:


> In my case it is not a problem, I always put a balanced with 2.5. If I need 3.5 I use an adapter.



I thought they came with that cable because it helped with the overall tuning of the earbuds. I find they look interesting though.


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> Are you planning to pull the trigger?



Easily not, it has to be a good value .... reading the partner, I'll let it be, or wait for opinions from the higher impedance. I await the response of the seller of the red film PK1 ... that he will be in that budget (and that he will be on vacation because he did not answer me. The one that catches my attention because of the design is the nicehck, but at that price I don't even think about it.


----------



## 40760 (Feb 10, 2021)

FranQL said:


> Easily not, it has to be a good value .... reading the partner, I'll let it be, or wait for opinions from the higher impedance. I await the response of the seller of the red film PK1 ... that he will be in that budget (and that he will be on vacation because he did not answer me. The one that catches my attention because of the design is the nicehck, but at that price I don't even think about it.



I like the overall looks of the new NiceHCK EBX21... but don't know if they will sound as good for the price. Seems like somebody from Thailand has bought one from the AE shop.


----------



## furyossa

@palestofwhite can you post some close-up photos of EM5 shells?


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> @palestofwhite can you post some close-up photos of EM5 shells?



are you going to analyze vents and stuff?


----------



## 40760 (Feb 10, 2021)

furyossa said:


> @palestofwhite can you post some close-up photos of EM5 shells?



It is night time here, so I'll try take some in the daylight tomorrow when I have time.

You can't see much through the clear shells because the insides are "smoky" or "bubbled" up. Might have something to do with the 3D printing process. Everything inside seems very tightly packed and the cable just nearly cleared the bottom vent. It is not as beautiful as on their product pictures.


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> are you going to analyze vents and stuff?


Of course   You know me


----------



## furyossa

palestofwhite said:


> It is night time here, so I'll try take some in the daylight tomorrow when I have time.
> 
> You can't see much through the clear shells because the insides are "smoky" or "bubbled" up. Might have something to do with the 3D printing process. Everything inside seems very tightly packed and the cable just nearly cleared the bottom vent. It is not as beautiful as on their product pictures.


They used tinted plastic to dimming internal mess   I'm kidding. It doesn't even need to look nice inside, it's just important that they packed everything properly. You can illuminate it with a flashlight on the opposite side before you take a picture.


----------



## 40760

furyossa said:


> They used tinted plastic to dimming internal mess   I'm kidding. It doesn't even need to look nice inside, it's just important that they packed everything properly. You can illuminate it with a flashlight on the opposite side before you take a picture.



I just tried the flashlight method and took a few test shots with my phone. Can't see s*** no matter which angle I try. What is clear is the thick silver cable is taking most of the stem. The driver area is too dark to show anything useful.

Will try more in the day, but I have preparations tomorrow for the Chinese new year over the next few days.


----------



## furyossa

palestofwhite said:


> Can't see s*** no matter which angle I try


    They did it on purpose. Ok, when you have free time. BTW happy CNY.


----------



## 40760

furyossa said:


> They did it on purpose. Ok, when you have free time. BTW happy CNY.



Thanks! You know you can see more through the "smoke frosted" shells of the Monk Plus than this "clear smoke" EM5... They should have just went with a solid color so it looks neater.


----------



## furyossa

palestofwhite said:


> Thanks! You know you can see more through the "smoke frosted" shells of the Monk Plus than this "clear smoke" EM5... They should have just went with a solid color so it looks neater.


After "burn-in" the plastic probably took on a little more tan 
For now, you're happy with the sound?


----------



## 40760

furyossa said:


> After "burn-in" the plastic probably took on a little more tan
> For now, you're happy with the sound?



The sound is still pretty good, but I think I'm getting quite used to it so it doesn't "wow" me like at first.

However, I'm still nowhere near the 200 hour mark since I only use them like an average of 8 - 10 hours a day.


----------



## RikudouGoku

palestofwhite said:


> The sound is still pretty good, but I think I'm getting quite used to it so it doesn't "wow" me like at first.
> 
> However, I'm still nowhere near the 200 hour mark since I only use them like an average of 8 - 10 hours a day.


If you want to "burn" them, you can just use an old smartphone/pc/laptop and let it play overnight though?


----------



## furyossa (Feb 10, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> The sound is still pretty good, but I think I'm getting quite used to it so it doesn't "wow" me like at first.
> 
> However, I'm still nowhere near the 200 hour mark since I only use them like an average of 8 - 10 hours a day.


When you "burn" the brain the "WOW" effect fade out. This is a completely normal because the brain adapts to the existing sound.
But forget about that, just go and enjoy the holiday 🎇


----------



## Alex.Grimm

S e n f e r PT2021 has many different versions (147 ohm, 275 ohm, 365 ohm), but only 32 ohm are available on Aliexpress so far.


----------



## baskingshark

Just received a review unit for the NiceHCK EBX 21. Will be passing it on to another reviewer at Audioreviews after a spin with it.





As befits its TOTL namesake, the NiceHCK EBX21 comes with very nice accessories, including a nice carrying case, a multitude of covers (full foams, donut foams, silicone rings). The cable comes with a magnetic clasp too.

So this is one TOTL earbud that has a detachable cable, unlike some of its TOTL brethen that are still stuck (no pun intended) in non detachable formats, which may be a potential source of failure down the line. During ordering, you can choose whether to get a choice of 2.5 mm or 3.5 mm or 4.4 mm termination. I know there's some hoohah that the cable itself is selling for 100 bucks or thereabouts, but FWIW, the cable is very impressively braided and supple, one of the best cables I've used in a haptic sense. It comes with a chin cinch, and the MMCX locks quite satisfyingly with a click. 

The NiceHCK EBX21 can be worn cable up or down, depending on your ear anatomy and preferences. Fit is very comfortable and light.

It is very easy to drive as per its very high sensitivity. I was actually expecting it to hiss like a snake due to the high sensitivity, but surprisingly there wasn't much hiss.


*OOTB impressions: *quite a neutralish tuning. Very smooth with minimal peaks/troughs in the tuning, yet managing to maintain lots of microdetails. Quite a few CHIFI earbuds and IEMs do "cheat" by boosting the upper mids and lower treble to get more clarity and a sense of perceived details, but here, you can really tell the EBX21 manages to get the details in without cranking it. Imaging, clarity, soundstage and instrument separation are really top notch, definitely the best earbud I've heard in terms of technicalities. It can keep up with fast portions or complex portions of music with no congestion or issues. I daresay it has resolution approaching some multi driver IEMs, no easy feat for a earbud.

In terms of the bass, this set is midbass focused. Midbass is neutral, subbass is unfortunately rolled off like most earbuds, both in terms of quantity and extension. So the SMABAT series earbuds will still beat this set in terms of absolute subbass amounts/extension. Bass on the EBX21 is very textured though, and of high quality, with no midbass bleed. Bass accuracy and speed are good. Mids are transparent and very detailed, with no harshness at the upper mids. Vocals are very clear yet not shouty. Treble extends moderately well, and is pretty good for a earbud. Sibilance is very mild, and cymbals and highhats sound very natural with no splashiness.

Timbre on this set is excellent for instrumental timbre and vocals. Vocal lovers and those who like acoustic instruments will enjoy this set.

So I think this earbud really lives up to the name of TOTL sound, in terms of the 3 Ts of timbre, tonality and technicalities. If only it had a bit more subbass extension (like the SMABAT series earbuds), then I think the tuning would be perfect. The cost is also quite high for this set, and diminishing returns do exist especially for earbuds, but this is probably endgame level for earbuds.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Feb 11, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Just received a review unit for the NiceHCK EBX 21. Will be passing it on to another reviewer at Audioreviews after a spin with it.



According to the description, pulls for $70-60. It is better to sell it without a cable), the cost of the EBX21 is overpriced


----------



## baskingshark

Alex.Grimm said:


> According to the description, pulls for $70-60. It is better to sell it without a cable), the cost of the EBX21 is overpriced



Yeah I see some Aliexpress sellers selling the cable at $100ish USD. I honestly wouldn't mind if the sellers just sell the EBX21 without the cable, and then sell just the earbud at half the price.


----------



## furyossa

@baskingshark thanks for first impression. If you have free time, please tell us about fit and comfort and post a few pictures of shell without foam.


baskingshark said:


> I honestly wouldn't mind if the sellers just sell the EBX21 without the cable, and then sell just the earbud at half the price.


As the OG before it was discontinued. I don't mean that the cable is bad, i.e. that it does not justify its price.
The options, with or without a cable, would attract a larger number of users without any doubt.
The current option (with cable) is intended for users who want a full package and don't want to "play" with different cables. 
Of course most of us don’t think that way


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> @baskingshark thanks for first impression. If you have free time, please tell us about fit and comfort and post a few pictures of shell without foam.
> 
> As the OG before it was discontinued. I don't mean that the cable is bad, i.e. that it does not justify its price.
> The options, with or without a cable, would attract a larger number of users without any doubt.
> ...


Going to be interesting to measure it. I wouldnt be surprised if they measure higher than the almost 7 times cheaper faaeal cable lol.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Going to be interesting to measure it. I wouldnt be surprised if they measure higher than the almost 7 times cheaper faaeal cable lol.


Very possible, we will see


----------



## vygas

Anyone here tried the buds that came with the original Gameboy? I stumbled across a pair on eBay the other day and couldn't help but notice that the driver cover was the same as the "PK" type buds. Either way, thought it would be a cool idea to order a pair and see if they're any good.


----------



## furyossa

vygas said:


> Anyone here tried the buds that came with the original Gameboy? I stumbled across a pair on eBay the other day and couldn't help but notice that the driver cover was the same as the "PK" type buds. Either way, thought it would be a cool idea to order a pair and see if they're any good.


You are the main investigator for PK gems on this forum starting with the NOKIA buds


----------



## baskingshark

furyossa said:


> @baskingshark thanks for first impression. If you have free time, please tell us about fit and comfort and post a few pictures of shell without foam.
> 
> As the OG before it was discontinued. I don't mean that the cable is bad, i.e. that it does not justify its price.
> The options, with or without a cable, would attract a larger number of users without any doubt.
> ...



Hi attached are some pictures of the bud without foam.






I find the comfort is very good. Fit wise, I needed to put a silicone ring or an extra layer of foams inside (and then put a full foam over it) to give it more filling so that it gives a better bass response and doesn't shake in the ear. YMMV though, fit is very personal due to our different ear anatomies.

It can also be worn over the ear instead of cable down, but I still use it cable down in the traditional way.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 11, 2021)

I


baskingshark said:


> Hi attached are some pictures of the bud without foam.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks. 
Beautiful, they scream quality for sure. Magnesium-zinc alloy shells?
The OG was as strong as a tank and 2K21 continues the tradition
Hmmmm... I think I found perfect cables for them, it exactly matches the quality of workmanship
HAKUGEI LITTLE HARMONY 7N https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001940233453.html (good price)
HAQUGEI Litz 8N https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001040630053.html (heavy-duty for advanced users   )


----------



## chinmie

baskingshark said:


> Hi attached are some pictures of the bud without foam.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



darn, that is one nice looking earbuds. can't wait for your thoughts on it's sound


----------



## cqtek

baskingshark said:


> Just received a review unit for the NiceHCK EBX 21. Will be passing it on to another reviewer at Audioreviews after a spin with it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, I agree with your impressions. In fact, I don't think I could have said it better myself. Very nice!
I received it today and after a 7 hour drive in the car, it is only now that I have sat down to listen to it in peace and quiet. 
I am amazed at how technically very good it is and how it shells out the details with the quality of the mids and highs. I could talk in circles and say little more than you.
To add something different and critical I will say that I find the cable heavy for earbuds, whose fit is usually lighter than iems.
I will try the plastic rings to see if I can get a more occlusive fit that allows me to boost the low end.


----------



## rprodrigues

@cqtek

Are they lightweight (buds only) compared to Rambo II?


----------



## cqtek

rprodrigues said:


> @cqtek
> 
> Are they lightweight (buds only) compared to Rambo II?



I don't have an accurate scale, but I'd say the Rambo IIs weigh a bit more,


----------



## furyossa (Feb 12, 2021)

cqtek said:


> Wow, I agree with your impressions. In fact, I don't think I could have said it better myself. Very nice!
> I received it today and after a 7 hour drive in the car, it is only now that I have sat down to listen to it in peace and quiet.
> I am amazed at how technically very good it is and how it shells out the details with the quality of the mids and highs. I could talk in circles and say little more than you.
> To add something different and critical I will say that I find the cable heavy for earbuds, whose fit is usually lighter than iems.
> I will try the plastic rings to see if I can get a more occlusive fit that allows me to boost the low end.


Without cable, they look premium. Unique design, gun metal color with mat finish is great "formula" for avoiding visible fingerprints.
Engraved name and label on the side are discreet which is great. This way you can feel it under your fingers and it helps to determine the left or right side without looking.
Without attached cable, the stem has slightly above average length in the case when we have MMCX sockets.
With the cable installed, the stem looks quite long and makes it difficult to carry the cable over the ears and thereby disrupts aesthetics.
First of all the housings of MMCX are too big, the metal part (or plastic) that marks the left and right side is superfluous.
Definitely they could have done a better cable design. We have a black MMCX housings which doesn't match visually with either the buds or the plug.
No matter how attractive it looks, such thick cables are not a good option for earbuds that are worn with a lowered cable.


----------



## furyossa

I forgot to ask how EBX2K21 compares to EM5?


----------



## 40760

It's been a really busy week and if all goes well, I should be able to arrange to get a pair of VE Sun Copper after the holidays.


----------



## DBaldock9

Just wondering if anyone here has rewired a set of NiceHCK ME80 earbuds?
If so, how did you disassemble them, without doing any permanent damage?


----------



## gordonderp

Danny23 said:


> Has anyone tried any of these OPENHEART buds?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001180479742.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.1.5f225294NqzskO
> ...



I have a pair and wasn't impressed, don't know what others think about them


----------



## vygas

I finally got the red pair of Monk+ I was talking about earlier. I was pretty excited knowing this is actually my first pair of Monk+ too. I liked them enough to justify buying another pair of Monk+ but this time in brown from a new Ali listing. I'm planning on re-cabling those, re-cabling a pair of transparent ones and keeping these red ones as is (unless I manage to find a version of that citrus orange cable somewhere). Now I'm kinda tempted to search for some original Monks but I feel like I might not want to end up paying a fortune for a good pair . Either way, hope everyone enjoys the rest of their day .



Spoiler: Photos


----------



## slim311

I've been out of the head-fi game for a few years, finally getting back into it now and I'm looking forward to adding some more Monks to my collection. Imagine my surprise logging back on after 3 or 4 years and finding out that not only are the Monks still available, but are thriving with even more additions. Looking forward to checking out the Monk+ SPC as well as the Monk Lite, not to mention the other buds from ali that I got my eyes on.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

slim311 said:


> I've been out of the head-fi game for a few years, finally getting back into it now and I'm looking forward to adding some more Monks to my collection. Imagine my surprise logging back on after 3 or 4 years and finding out that not only are the Monks still available, but are thriving with even more additions. Looking forward to checking out the Monk+ SPC as well as the Monk Lite, not to mention the other buds from ali that I got my eyes on.


Welcome back to the fold; great timing as plenty has happened with earbuds!


----------



## slim311

WoodyLuvr said:


> Welcome back to the fold; great timing as plenty has happened with earbuds!



I am slowly starting to see that. There are some intriguing lower-priced buds I've got my eye on from brands I'm unfamiliar with like FENGRU or Cat Ear Audio, as well as some new stuff from old standbys like TY Hi-Z and FAAEAL, not to mention all the new VE models.

The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades buds.


----------



## 40760

EM5 failed again... not playing any sound from both drivers. 🤬


----------



## furyossa

slim311 said:


> I am slowly starting to see that. There are some intriguing lower-priced buds I've got my eye on from brands I'm unfamiliar with like FENGRU or Cat Ear Audio, as well as some new stuff from old standbys like TY Hi-Z and FAAEAL, not to mention all the new VE models.
> 
> The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades buds.


FENGRU is more like DIY brand and if you are familiar with DIY stuffs you can build a similar model for less money.
TY Hi-Z have a nice lineup of buds, but they have not done anything new for a long time


----------



## furyossa (Feb 15, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> EM5 failed again... not playing any sound from both drivers. 🤬


We joked a lot about EM5 but this is getting serious now. What do you think it's: cables or drivers failure?


----------



## 40760 (Feb 15, 2021)

furyossa said:


> We joked a lot about EM5 but this is getting serious now. What do you think it's: cables or drivers failure?



Since both previous sets had cable issues, I'm suspecting cable as well. This time I have to bring it to the distributor instead of the audio shop.

I also just found out the the carrying case had some missing stitches at the flap area where it opens up. The surprises just keep coming...


----------



## furyossa (Feb 15, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> Since both previous sets had cable issues, I'm suspecting cable as well. This time I have to bring it to the distributor instead of the audio shop.


I don't know what to say man. It's a real shame
That's why I analyze every single bud, in some cases maybe I sound harsh, or I'm too strict but given the different experiences I have had,  I think some conclusions can be drawn from the critique that can help. Most of us are sometimes too fascinated by the look or the specification itself and at that point we make a hasty decision, so any advice comes in handy.


----------



## baskingshark

palestofwhite said:


> Since both previous sets had cable issues, I'm suspecting cable as well. This time I have to bring it to the distributor instead of the audio shop.
> 
> I also just found out the the carrying case had some missing stitches at the flap area where it opens up. The surprises just keep coming...



Hope u get it sorted out friend. Luckily u bought it locally, I hope they will honor the warranty. Could be worse, like if you had to send it back to China and the costs can be prohibitive, or the whole parcel might just get lost in logistics purgatory.


----------



## rkw

palestofwhite said:


> Since both previous sets had cable issues, I'm suspecting cable as well.


Are you using a balanced plug? Swap to the 3.5mm plug and see if it makes a difference. I'm thinking it might be the contacts at the detachable plug.


----------



## 40760

rkw said:


> Are you using a balanced plug? Swap to the 3.5mm plug and see if it makes a difference. I'm thinking it might be the contacts at the detachable plug.



I tried that too but the plugs have nothing to do with the issue. I just have to take out more time to make another trip for RMA. The hassle just spoils the experience for me and my impression of the brand.


----------



## 40760

On the bright side I have the Yincrow X6 to use now.

I'll most likely also order a pair of VE Sun Copper by the end of the week, so I can take a break from the EM5.


----------



## FranQL (Feb 15, 2021)

I've been using Bell LB ksearphone for a few days, and as I asked for recommendations here, which is less than a small review. I'm not going to get into evaluations with ethereal terminology ... just keep in mind that this is the first set of buds that I have used for a long time (ry4s plus are terribly uncomfortable for me). 

The fit is perfect. 

Simply the bass very satisfactory for me, I never heard a treble extension like here, sharp and well I come from the iem world, so until I burn my brain I am missing something ... but in short I bought them for the adjustment and against my expectations (I assumed that I would not like the sound signature), it is a more than acceptable value for the price (€ 30). 

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## FranQL

Now to wait patiently for PK1 and PK2 DIY for which I pulled the trigger recommended by @furyossa  .

Apparently I am coddled to avoid the 15.4mm so with these three games it is enough for an initiation into the world of buds. 

It is true that I would like something with high impedance to use with E1DA SG3, but I will wait for pk1 150 ohm transparent film to see the performance.


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> I've been using Bell LB ksearphone for a few days, and as I asked for recommendations here, which is less than a small review. I'm not going to get into evaluations with ethereal terminology ... just keep in mind that this is the first set of buds that I have used for a long time (ry4s plus are terribly uncomfortable for me).
> 
> The fit is perfect.
> 
> ...


Post some pictures,  you know the drill


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> Now to wait patiently for PK1 and PK2 DIY for which I pulled the trigger recommended by @furyossa  .
> 
> Apparently I am coddled to avoid the 15.4mm so with these three games it is enough for an initiation into the world of buds.
> 
> It is true that I would like something with high impedance to use with E1DA SG3, but I will wait for pk1 150 ohm transparent film to see the performance.


Nokia HDD-1? Did they arrive?


----------



## FranQL

There they go


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> Nokia HDD-1? Did they arrive?



Well, I'm sure I've bought a fake product .... it hasn't reached me yet, but the colleague @vygas  bought one from this ebay seller and it's neither the original pk case nor does it have a red film controller. in short, probably € 18.5 thrown away.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 15, 2021)

FranQL said:


> There they go


That's it. The black gems.  I'm glad you like them 
More people have confirmed that this (2020 edition) has a better driver. The Previous model (2018 edition) that I've own has no bass.
K's shells are one of the most comfortable that I've tried aka. the "comfort king". The workmanship is also top-notch.
The cables seem strong but as far as I remember the previous model had a bit of a problem with the microphonics.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 15, 2021)

FranQL said:


> Well, I'm sure I've bought a fake product .... it hasn't reached me yet, but the colleague @vygas  bought one from this ebay seller and it's neither the original pk case nor does it have a red film controller. in short, probably € 18.5 thrown away.


@vygas explained what on the difference in the DIY Earbuds thread. Let's hope it's a red film


----------



## Nool

@Alex.Grimm I see you owned a lot of expensive earbuds, smabats yincrows etc. Which earbuds would you say are worth looking at? I'm thinking about getting the RW-1000 Bass Pro. I'm interested most in detail and timbre; I don't mind using EQ to fix tuning. Thanks.


----------



## rprodrigues

MelodyMood said:


> Sure. Let me do some R&D and see if they sound better or same? What other Earbuds you may suggest for better quality in terms of sound and build  both. As I mentioned, I have TP16, Monk+, FiiO EM3, Yincrow X6 etc. I need good Bass, Smooth High and Mic is must.



Which one do you prefer between X6 and TP16?

I'd like to know if the  X6 are worth it since I already own the TP16...


----------



## Nec3

Are there any earbuds on amazon that are like the Nicehck B40's? My brother actually likes them so I gave it to him. I'm not a fan of the yincrow RW9's and my Qian39's are strictly for ASMR stuff; great for voices but not for average music and gaming. The closest thing I could find that I've liked is the Apple Earpods and I listened to those about 8 years ago.

Edit: I have a few earbuds on the way from aliexpress but due to the pandemic they've been held at the post office for some time now.


----------



## furyossa

This is non-destructive mod for treble sensitive people and a small experiment with different filters, silicone caps and full foams on AKG Y16A.


----------



## Nool

Nec3 said:


> Are there any earbuds on amazon that are like the Nicehck B40's? My brother actually likes them so I gave it to him. I'm not a fan of the yincrow RW9's and my Qian39's are strictly for ASMR stuff; great for voices but not for average music and gaming. The closest thing I could find that I've liked is the Apple Earpods and I listened to those about 8 years ago.
> 
> Edit: I have a few earbuds on the way from aliexpress but due to the pandemic they've been held at the post office for some time now.


The B40's frequency response seems similar to the yincrow x6, focus on bass and mids. Dunno if the x6 is on Amazon though.

Thanks to Sam L for the measurements.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Nool said:


> The B40's frequency response seems similar to the yincrow x6, focus on bass and mids. Dunno if the x6 is on Amazon though.
> 
> Thanks to Sam L for the measurements.


The X6 and the B40 sounds very different to me though. I dont like the B40 while I love the X6.


----------



## XP_98

palestofwhite said:


> It's been a really busy week and if all goes well, I should be able to arrange to get a pair of VE Sun Copper after the holidays.


These are the best earbuds I could hear (see my signature)... Until I pulled the trigger for VE Zen SU, which is even better ! Despite the name, it's the same shell than VE Sun.
Sure you will enjoy them, but they deserve a good amp.


----------



## FranQL

For a little little more money the VE Zen SU already comes with an amplifier.


----------



## 40760

XP_98 said:


> These are the best earbuds I could hear (see my signature)... Until I pulled the trigger for VE Zen SU, which is even better ! Despite the name, it's the same shell than VE Sun.
> Sure you will enjoy them, but they deserve a good amp.



I think I have read your review of the VE Sun Copper in another thread. So far I have only come across 3 reviews on it and the rest are about the Sun DICE.

I actually traded in my Zen Black a couple of years back in anticipation of a new model, which was later unveiled as the SUN series. But due to shortage of stock for the initial run, it was until recent weeks that I reconnected with Lee to negotiate a deal for a pair of Sun Copper.

I'm sure the Zen SU will be a better performer, but that price point is simply out of my consideration at the moment. The best I have heard is the Zen Black, but the stiff cable was not portable friendly for my previous use. I sure hope the Sun Copper can live up to its name, after years of wait.


----------



## 40760

XP_98 said:


> These are the best earbuds I could hear (see my signature)... Until I pulled the trigger for VE Zen SU, which is even better ! Despite the name, it's the same shell than VE Sun.
> Sure you will enjoy them, but they deserve a good amp.



Before I forget, can you also do a small review of the VE Zen SU?


----------



## XP_98

I have just finished their burn in, will need some time (that I don't have much)...


----------



## WoodyLuvr

FranQL said:


> For a little little more money the VE Zen SU already comes with an amplifier.


----------



## XP_98

FranQL said:


> For a little little more money the VE Zen SU already comes with an amplifier.


This amp (DEFIANT) is a great pairing, but when I bought it I wasn't ready for the more expensive Zen SU, that I bought later. Sure the bundle is a good deal if you can spent all at once.


----------



## 40760

XP_98 said:


> This amp (DEFIANT) is a great pairing, but when I bought it I wasn't ready for the more expensive Zen SU, that I bought later. Sure the bundle is a good deal if you can spent all at once.



You mean you can get the Zen SU without the Defiant?


----------



## G777

I just impulse bought a pair of Openheart earbuds. Anyone tried these? Even if they suck at least they come with a decent cable.


----------



## XP_98

palestofwhite said:


> You mean you can get the Zen SU without the Defiant?


I bought the Defiant alone, and then a few month later, the Zen SU. So I suppose it's possible... You could ask VE.


----------



## 40760

XP_98 said:


> I bought the Defiant alone, and then a few month later, the Zen SU. So I suppose it's possible... You could ask VE.



Sounds good. I'll check with Lee after the holidays.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

How much are the VE Zen SU earbuds running these days? Still around USD $1.6K?


----------



## 40760 (Feb 16, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> How much are the VE Zen SU earbuds running these days? Still around USD $1.6K?



In that case, I think I'll be sticking to the Sun Copper...

The Defiant and Zen SU combo is going for 2980usd and the Defiant Gold Edition on its own is 1798usd.


----------



## gazzington

Is the ve sun copper the best iem these days?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

gazzington said:


> Is the ve sun copper the best iem these days?


There are a number of god-tier *earbuds* (_not IEMs mind you)_ that are currently available now which includes the VE Sun... it just depends on your preferred sound signature; shell type; and music genre. This is not a ranking but rather a quick recommendation list (please note there is a rather strong "*YMMV*" in effect here as everyone's ears and tastes vary greatly  ).

Ksearphone Bell-Ti (32Ω & 120Ω; aka "Titanium Ling")
Moondrop Chaconne (24Ω)
Rose Technics Maria II (14Ω)
Simphonio SW-Dragon 3 (150Ω; aka "SWD3")
VE Sun ("Dice" Aluminum/Steel 180Ω; "Copper" 180Ω)
VS Zen SU (Limited Edition 320Ω)
•D•Q•S•M••A•u•d•i•o• Turandot (16Ω)
Ksearphone Onmyoji Bell-Aluminum (30Ω; aka "New Black & White Little Bell")
FiiO EM5 (32Ω... though it appears they are having some quality control issues at the moment)
Dez Kim 데즈 Series (#6/7 32Ω; #8 130Ω; #9 130Ω; #10 64Ω)
Yincrow RW-2000 (16Ω)


----------



## gazzington

WoodyLuvr said:


> There are a number of god-tier *earbuds* (_not IEMs mind you)_ that are currently available now which includes the VE Sun... it just depends on your preferred sound signature; shell type; and music genre. This is not a ranking but rather a quick recommendation list (please note there is a rather strong "*YMMV*" in effect here as everyone's ears and tastes vary greatly  ).
> 
> Ksearphone Bell-Ti (32Ω & 120Ω; aka "Titanium Ling")
> Moondrop Chaconne (24Ω)
> ...


Which of those would you say is best for multi genre listening? I listen to everything from metal to classical!


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Feb 16, 2021)

Nool said:


> @Alex.Grimm I see you owned a lot of expensive earbuds, smabats yincrows etc. Which earbuds would you say are worth looking at? I'm thinking about getting the RW-1000 Bass Pro. I'm interested most in detail and timbre; I don't mind using EQ to fix tuning. Thanks.


I think the best option at the moment would be RW-2000 on sale with a promo code/coupon of about 105$. But if you don't have such a budget then RW-1000 Bass Pro is not a bad option, but they are brighter, less weight and less bass in sound.
I like a more old-school musical presentation of the sound, now I mainly use Yinman 600 and sometimes Shozy BK


----------



## XP_98 (Feb 16, 2021)

gazzington said:


> Is the ve sun copper the best iem these days?


Having both the Sun Copper and the Zen SU, I can say the SU is even better.
I can't stand IEMs anymore so I only compare buds. 
But the Sun is already very good (best among totl earbuds I know, see my signature), cheaper, and a little easier to drive. VE anyway recommends their Defiant amp to make them really shine. 
I compared my Defiant and my WA11 and found the Defiant being above.


----------



## furyossa

Alex.Grimm said:


> I think the best option at the moment would be RW-2000 on sale with a promo code/coupon of about 105$. But if you don't have such a budget then RW-1000 Bass Pro is not a bad option, but they are brighter, less weight and less bass.
> I like a more old-school musical presentation of the sound, now I mainly use Yinman 600 and sometimes Shozy BK


About Yinman 150ohm, there are OLD and NEW version, are you try them maybe?


----------



## 40760

XP_98 said:


> Having both the Sun Copper and the Zen SU, I can say the SU is even better.
> I can't stand IEMs anymore so I only compare buds.
> But the Sun is already very good (best among totl earbuds I know, see my signature), cheaper, and a little easier to drive. VE anyway recommends their Defiant amp to make them really shine.
> I compared my Defiant and my WA11 and found the Defiant being above.



I don't know if it comes with age, but my ears don't go well with IEMs too. I can still wear shallower insertion IEMs like the AirPods Pro, but usually not for long without pressure in the ear or soreness. Headphones are great but always uncomfortably warm and sweaty in my climate, hence earbuds are the only way for me at home.

I guess I'll just go with the Sun Copper since that is what I'm willing to spend at the moment.


----------



## uneri (Jun 24, 2021)

‎


----------



## jestercow (Feb 16, 2021)

Alex.Grimm said:


> I think the best option at the moment would be RW-2000 on sale with a promo code/coupon of about 105$.



They drop that low on Aliexpress? I see them at ≈ $140 currently but $35 is worth waiting for. I haven’t used that app or site much either, don’t see much for coupons.

edit: clarification


----------



## Alex.Grimm

furyossa said:


> About Yinman 150ohm, there are OLD and NEW version, are you try them maybe?


haven't tried it, I don't think it's new no yinman, longyao


----------



## furyossa

uneri said:


> Fit-wise, it's the best type of earbuds shell for me, very lightweight and comfy to wear but definitely not cheap looking.
> If you're unsure fit-wise, you can try K's LBBs (Little Black Bell S), which is very similar in fit, with the Onmyoji having a longer stem.


For me personally "Bell" design is *#1* (comfort and fit wise), without any gimmicks and BS.
Because they look minimalistic that does not mean they are cheap looking. The simplest functional design is the most difficult to devise.
Metallic shells seem really luxurious but even if they are made of plastic only the design is worth half the price


----------



## FranQL

When I made the purchase of the LBB ksearphone, the seller told me that the only difference between the finishes was the aesthetics, I understand that they must be the same.


----------



## jestercow

Anyone able to verify whether or not the apple dongle is able to drive the Smabat black/gold ST-10S? I just checked with my Sennheiser HD560S (120Ω) and it was perfect for me at half volume, so I would assume the 150Ω Smabats would work at least as well due to slightly higher sensitivity rating (115 vs 110). But it's a significant enough price difference to want to double-check before ordering.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Got my EBX21, super early impressions. Well tuned with good tonality and timbre as you expect from earbuds. A bit warmer tonality overall and very neutral. Although it has a typical bud bass....so no Yincrow X6 upgrade here.   

As for technicalities I cant comment on them yet (too early) and because I have been using high-end iems like the Dunu Zen and the Sony EX1000 the entire day, the technicalities on the EBX21 didnt impress me. 


Cable measures at 0.39 ohms, pretty high for a cable that costs around 100 usd.


----------



## povidlo

jestercow said:


> Anyone able to verify whether or not the apple dongle is able to drive the Smabat black/gold ST-10S? I just checked with my Sennheiser HD560S (120Ω) and it was perfect for me at half volume, so I would assume the 150Ω Smabats would work at least as well due to slightly higher sensitivity rating (115 vs 110). But it's a significant enough price difference to want to double-check before ordering.


Don't do it. Golds work best with a strong amp. Might sound thin and shouty from apple dongle.


----------



## jestercow

povidlo said:


> Don't do it. Golds work best with a strong amp. Might sound thin and shouty from apple dongle.


Thanks for the input mate. I've got plenty of headphones for desk use, but do like the form factor of buds for out and about. I'll stick with the silvers and maybe pick up a pair of RW-2000s for variety


----------



## baskingshark

jestercow said:


> Anyone able to verify whether or not the apple dongle is able to drive the Smabat black/gold ST-10S? I just checked with my Sennheiser HD560S (120Ω) and it was perfect for me at half volume, so I would assume the 150Ω Smabats would work at least as well due to slightly higher sensitivity rating (115 vs 110). But it's a significant enough price difference to want to double-check before ordering.



Yes agree with @povidlo , the apple dongle can't drive the ST10S Black Gold well. U can pump up the volume to compensate, but the 3 kHz area becomes very overemphasized and fatiguing. Dynamics are also lost. Black Gold really needs an amp.




RikudouGoku said:


> Got my EBX21, super early impressions. Well tuned with good tonality and timbre as you expect from earbuds. A bit warmer tonality overall and very neutral. Although it has a typical bud bass....so no Yincrow X6 upgrade here.
> 
> As for technicalities I cant comment on them yet (too early) and because I have been using high-end iems like the Dunu Zen and the Sony EX1000 the entire day, the technicalities on the EBX21 didnt impress me.
> 
> ...



Haha I don't think TOTL buds can compete with TOTL IEMs in terms of technical performance. But the TOTL earbuds are relatively cheaper than TOTL IEMs as such.

We should really ask the sellers if the can just sell the NiceHCK EBX21 alone, without the cable, and ask them to deduct 100 USD off the price? I think there\ll be more sales like that.


----------



## slim311

furyossa said:


> FENGRU is more like DIY brand and if you are familiar with DIY stuffs you can build a similar model for less money.



I am definitely interested in the Fengru DIY PK1-style buds, as most of my current buds are based on MX500 and I found that I tend to fiddle with them more than the smaller buds I have like Qian39. Maybe smaller-shelled buds will be more conducive to set and forget for me. Also, I have no experience soldering so building it myself is not likely an option. I'm real good at taking stuff apart, not so great at putting it back together.



furyossa said:


> TY Hi-Z have a nice lineup of buds, but they have not done anything new for a long time



They may not have stuff that's new to the market, but most of it is new to me. The HP314 and F32MT are the ones that are currently catching my eye.


----------



## XP_98

palestofwhite said:


> In that case, I think I'll be sticking to the Sun Copper...
> 
> The Defiant and Zen SU combo is going for 2980usd and the Defiant Gold Edition on its own is 1798usd.


If you can wait a few weeks, I might put my Sun Copper up for sale if I decided not to keep both Sun Copper and Zen SU...


----------



## 40760

XP_98 said:


> If you can wait a few weeks, I might put my Sun Copper up for sale if I decided not to keep both Sun Copper and Zen SU...



I appreciate that, but have to get the Sun Copper from Lee because I did a trade in of my Zen Black and we already had an arrangement.


----------



## XP_98

palestofwhite said:


> I appreciate that, but have to get the Sun Copper from Lee because I did a trade in of my Zen Black and we already had an arrangement.


Fine ! You will appreciate it, especially with a good amp.


----------



## 40760

XP_98 said:


> Fine ! You will appreciate it, especially with a good amp.



I sure hope so, after my disappointment with the EM5...


----------



## FranQL (Feb 17, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> We should really ask the sellers if the can just sell the NiceHCK EBX21 alone, without the cable, and ask them to deduct 100 USD off the price? I think there\ll be more sales like that.



I have sent a message to nicehck, to see if he responds.

and I invited him to read the thread


----------



## jestercow

palestofwhite said:


> I sure hope so, after my disappointment with the EM5...


We all feel your pain, amigo *hug*


----------



## 40760

Am going down to local distributor for RMA tomorrow. Wish me luck.


----------



## jestercow

palestofwhite said:


> Am going down to local distributor for RMA tomorrow. Wish me luck.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sure looks great.


But that cable...I got a lot of complaints about that one. 

Measures pretty badly (at 0.39) at the price it is at.
More than worthless chin-slider, it does not work at all and slides up/down easily
When you move the chin-slider up/down, it sounds like the sound a zipper on a jacket makes lol, microphonics is pretty bad.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Sure looks great.
> 
> 
> But that cable...I got a lot of complaints about that one.
> ...



You have nice "beauty" shots.    How do you compare them to the RW-2K ?


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> You have nice "beauty" shots.    How do you compare them to the RW-2K ?


Thanks.

I dont have the RW-2k, but the Viridis will be in the comparison.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I dont have the RW-2k, but the Viridis will be in the comparison.


Fair enough, still I think that EBX'21 is step above.  Anyway... I'm still looking forward to your comparison.


----------



## cqtek

RikudouGoku said:


> Sure looks great.
> 
> 
> But that cable...I got a lot of complaints about that one.
> ...


As for the cable, I am also annoyed by the fact that the pin is useless. But I don't like the weight of the cable at all. For earbuds whose fit is not so firm and durable, a heavy cable makes it easy for them to fall out.
Fortunately, the sound is very good for me.


----------



## RikudouGoku

cqtek said:


> As for the cable, I am also annoyed by the fact that the pin is useless. But I don't like the weight of the cable at all. For earbuds whose fit is not so firm and durable, a heavy cable makes it easy for them to fall out.
> Fortunately, the sound is very good for me.


yeah, I got a lot of complains about that cable. Do wish they start selling it with another cable, like their own LitzPS cable or something...


----------



## cqtek (Feb 17, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> yeah, I got a lot of complains about that cable. Do wish they start selling it with another cable, like their own LitzPS cable or something...


Well, you're right, it's not because they don't have alternatives in all prices and colours...

By the way, do you use a macro lens for such close-up photos?


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> yeah, I got a lot of complains about that cable. Do wish they start selling it with another cable, like their own LitzPS cable or something...


Or without the cable


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Or without the cable


That would work for me personally, as I change the stock basically all the time anyway...

Not sure what the overall consensus is about that though lol.


----------



## 40760

Guess you guys are right all along that having replaceable cable is a good consideration when picking earbuds.


----------



## FranQL

RikudouGoku said:


> That would work for me personally, as I change the stock basically all the time anyway...
> 
> Not sure what the overall consensus is about that though lol.


In my case the same, I always change the cables, always to the same model, for comfort and quality and aesthetics.


----------



## furyossa

I don’t know what the performance of these new graphene cables, but I think they would fit nicely, 
aesthetically wise, with EBX'21. I guess they are very light considering that graphene is an ultra light material 
compared to copper and silver
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001742192708.html
Recently, someone asked me about xiaofan cables that had briefly disappeared from Ali. 
These cables are really interestingly braided
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000165943464.html


----------



## RikudouGoku

cqtek said:


> By the way, do you use a macro lens for such close-up photos?


Yup, a macro lens adapter since my LG G7 doesnt have one.

Specifically this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32692649518.html


----------



## Ithilstone

assassin10000 said:


> NSC audio store on AliExpress.
> 
> 
> Which version of the K's LB do you have? The older warmer one or the newer V-shaped 2020 one?
> ...


Well took me a long  time ;] but finally ordered 64 ohm version 
For bassier stuff I have VE ZEN Omega - and do not use them that often... ;]
- we will see if I like that 64 ohm driver - I will just drop it inside K's housing as is and see
a bit of mix tuning as K's is using some kind of cellulose material for tuning 
and that N55 unit comes with foam -It might get interesting ;]
one more time thanx for help


----------



## cqtek

RikudouGoku said:


> Yup, a macro lens adapter since my LG G7 doesnt have one.
> 
> Specifically this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32692649518.html


Uyyy, I'm a bit old, I didn't know there were devices like that.
I thought you did it with a reflex camera, like I do with my old Canon EOS 450D, 12.2MP. Not many MP for today, but still capable of taking good pictures with a good 18-50mm lens.
Thanks for the link.


----------



## FranQL (Feb 18, 2021)

Answer NiceHCK: hi friend , thanks for your information , we will consider


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> Answer NiceHCK: hi friend , thanks for your information , we will consider


☑️


----------



## DBaldock9

Found a really good synergy with my K's K600 (600Ω, 2.5mm TRRS) and my iBasso PB-2 (2x OPA1612; 4x BUF634 w/Class A Bias Resistors). 
. 
I've always been impressed by the Bass response of the K's K600 ---but with this combo of op-amps and buffers, the speed and impact of the sound is great, when listening to the "Live at the Porchester" acoustic concert video of the British EDM band Above & Beyond on YouTube. 
. 
Signal path:
PC -> Topping D70 -> iBasso PB-2 -> K's K600


----------



## assassin10000

Ithilstone said:


> Well took me a long  time ;] but finally ordered 64 ohm version
> For bassier stuff I have VE ZEN Omega - and do not use them that often... ;]
> - we will see if I like that 64 ohm driver - I will just drop it inside K's housing as is and see
> a bit of mix tuning as K's is using some kind of cellulose material for tuning
> ...



No problem, pop into the DIY earbuds thread if you have questions. There are some helpful people in there.


----------



## Tromick (Feb 19, 2021)

ounwx said:


> *Intro and Biases*
> I just started looking at this forum, and cheap buds in general, within the last couple months. I’ve used Sennheiser MX365s for years without really knowing of any decent, affordable alternatives. So needless to say, I’ve jumped into amassing these ChiFi buds pretty quickly, and my impressions could change with time.
> 
> I’m making this post to help people who were in my recent situation: trying to figure out what’s worth ordering, but information is scattered all over the place in different threads and posts. Hopefully, having a reference where the same listener directly compares a lot of popular options is helpful, even if it’s only one perspective at the end of the day. Certainly feel free to ask questions or for more clarification on differences between pairs I’ve reviewed; I’ll probably be around quite a bit at least in the short term.
> ...


I have used Sennheiser MX80, MX170, MX365, MX470. I always loved earbuds because it is comfortable (except that MX470). I have high-end over-ear headphones but they are not comfortable. Also i always loved Sennheiser's sound.

I tried TC300 and i become so sad. I wasted my time with Sennheiser earbuds. You and other people were saying that TC300 has same sound tune as Sennheiser MX series. Indeed! They have same sound tune. But much more upgraded version! Amazing sound stage and depth! Amazing bass/kick seperation, rich mid/up-bass, neutral highs, neutral mids. My ears are small so i was very cautious while buying them. Thankfully they are small like MX365! Sennheiser MX80 is little bit smaller than both. 

The only thing is pads are making rustle sound (like leafs) when you move your jaw/mouth. I think that sound will be gone with time. Pads are new so that's normal. If i remember right, same thing were happening with Sennheiser earbuds in first days.

I also bought TC200 from same shop but it is for my sister so i can't test them! She is cleanly! Thank you thank you thank you!!!

Edit : Without putting them into my ears, i tried TC200 and TC300 for comparison. TC200 has more bass and more treble. TC300 is more neutral. Due to more bass, TC200's bass/kick seperation is little bit less than TC300. No huge difference between them bass/kick seperation wise. Just a little bit! TC200 has better selective perception, i can tell which instrument or sound comes from what o'clock but TC300 has more depth. Both have great sound stage, no different! I found TC200 more joyful and fun! TC300 is more natural. You can go with either one of them. If you want joy, go with TC200. If you want natural sound, go with TC300! Loved both of them! TC300 is my new love! I hope y'all will also find your new love too!


----------



## RikudouGoku

Just looked at amazon japan and it seems that the NiceHCK ME80 is sold out now. You guys that have it should cherish it forever, the tuning is exceptionally good.

It is diminishing the value of the EBX21 a lot....


----------



## jestercow

RikudouGoku said:


> Just looked at amazon japan and it seems that the NiceHCK ME80 is sold out now. You guys that have it should cherish it forever, the tuning is exceptionally good.
> 
> It is diminishing the value of the EBX21 a lot....


How do the ME80 and EB2 compare?


----------



## RikudouGoku

jestercow said:


> How do the ME80 and EB2 compare?


Dont have the EB2.


----------



## jestercow

I have seen several different people on various sites make the comment about how "getting a proper seal" is key to XYZ aspect of a specific earbud, but I have never been able to get any sort of seal with them. Am I just bad at wearing earbuds or am I misunderstanding something?


----------



## RikudouGoku

jestercow said:


> I have seen several different people on various sites make the comment about how "getting a proper seal" is key to XYZ aspect of a specific earbud, but I have never been able to get any sort of seal with them. Am I just bad at wearing earbuds or am I misunderstanding something?


Have you tried using foams? That usually helps a lot.

But getting a "seal" with buds feels different from iems, since they dont block the air from moving out/in as much as iems do.


----------



## jestercow

I usually just put one set of VE foams on, more for comfort than anything else. I've never had it feel like any sort of seal, though; they just kind of sit on my ear.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jestercow said:


> I usually just put one set of VE foams on, more for comfort than anything else. I've never had it feel like any sort of seal, though; they just kind of sit on my ear.


yup, thats correct. You are definitely not getting the same "seal" feeling as on iems.

With iems you are more isolated, but with buds you feel more exposed to the world.


----------



## jestercow

I can't wear IEMs, they really mess with my ears. I'd concluded that I was stuck with full-sized headphones for the rest of my life until I recently rediscovered earbuds. So far I've only got the Monk+ and Snow Lotus 1.0 but they just sound so different when compared to headphones - in a good way. The soundstage, even on these $10 buds, is just completely addictive. Looking at your list, I may have to save up for a pair of Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis if just for that gorgeous green!


----------



## RikudouGoku

jestercow said:


> I can't wear IEMs, they really mess with my ears. I'd concluded that I was stuck with full-sized headphones for the rest of my life until I recently rediscovered earbuds. So far I've only got the Monk+ and Snow Lotus 1.0 but they just sound so different when compared to headphones - in a good way. The soundstage, even on these $10 buds, is just completely addictive. Looking at your list, I may have to save up for a pair of Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis if just for that gorgeous green!


If you want the best combination and with as few buds as possible. I would go for the Yincrow X6 and the Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis. They are polar opposites and complement each others weaknesses very well.


----------



## jestercow

That will take some time... I got a little carried away and have already ordered the "Earbuds Anonymous" and Smabat ST-10S from Penon, as well as a pair of Blurs. It seems there's always another rabbit-hole in audio...


----------



## 40760

jestercow said:


> That will take some time... I got a little carried away and have already ordered the "Earbuds Anonymous" and Smabat ST-10S from Penon, as well as a pair of Blurs. It seems there's always another rabbit-hole in audio...



Oh yes. At least get the X6. I'm pleasantly surprised when I received them last week.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Alright, since we cant create polls directly here. I made one here: http://www.strawpoll.me/42665519

It is about bringing back the NiceHCK ME80 since it is discontinued right now.

Please vote and if a lot of people wants it then I will ask NiceHCK to bring it back (and show the poll to them).


----------



## jestercow

RikudouGoku said:


> Alright, since we cant create polls directly here. I made one here: http://www.strawpoll.me/42665519
> 
> It is about bringing back the NiceHCK ME80 since it is discontinued right now.
> 
> Please vote and if a lot of people wants it then I will ask NiceHCK to bring it back (and show the poll to them).


If you only get a few votes, maybe you could ask him to make a few more pairs for us


----------



## RikudouGoku

jestercow said:


> If you only get a few votes, maybe you could ask him to make a few more pairs for us


I believe with most of these budget stuff, they produce them in large batches, so thats why they are so cheap.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> Alright, since we cant create polls directly here. I made one here: http://www.strawpoll.me/42665519
> 
> It is about bringing back the NiceHCK ME80 since it is discontinued right now.
> 
> Please vote and if a lot of people wants it then I will ask NiceHCK to bring it back (and show the poll to them).


Voted. Might be smart if Jim made a version with a mic as well.


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Voted. Might be smart if Jim made a version with a mic as well.


I want it to have an mmcx connector. But I take it as it is, if they just bring it back...


----------



## Danneq

WoodyLuvr said:


> *MDR-E SERIES INTRODUCTION*
> Sony debuted it's first "earbud" type ear receiver the MDR-E252 in June 1982 and thus began the earphone line we now know as the *"MDR-E Series"*. However, there was an even earlier, and little known, "on-ear" model line that came before the MDR-E252 in June 1981; the Ear Hook Ear Receiver series which was composed of two models, the MDR-E3 Mono Ear Hook and MDR-E33 Stereo Ear Hook. There was also a mono earbud "Side Earplug" model line that debuted later in 1985. So the *MDR-E Series Earphone Product Line* is actually composed of three (3) different headphone types: the "Ear Hook" ear receiver, the "Earbud" earphone, and the mono "Side Earplug" (see all the model series and numbers down below in the "_MDR-E SERIES MODEL NUMBERS_" section).
> 
> 
> ...




This would have been a great post to get information from when I was collecting vintage earbuds a few years ago.

E484 are great, as is E282. Somehow I kind of prefered E252. Now the prices of vintage earbuds have shot up even more than around 5-10 years ago when I was trying to find all the best Aiwa and Sony buds.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 19, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> I want it to have an mmcx connector. But I take it as it is, if they just bring it back...


Then it might be better to bring the original EBX back to life. You have my vote


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Then it might be better to bring the original EBX back to life. You have my vote


Haven't heard that one lol. They seem to be discontinuing a lot of stuff that people consider good?


----------



## furyossa (Feb 19, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Haven't heard that one lol. They seem to be discontinuing a lot of stuff that people consider good?


OG EBX is their previous flagship. If they bring it back, it will probably jeopardize the sale of the current favorite. But in my estimation, OG EBX could be in the range of $50-70 and ME80 < $15


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> Just looked at amazon japan and it seems that the NiceHCK ME80 is sold out now. You guys that have it should cherish it forever, the tuning is exceptionally good.
> 
> It is diminishing the value of the EBX21 a lot....



The tonality is similar between the 2 earbuds, but EBX 21 kills the ME80 in technicalities by a lot. And of course it is detachable, unlike the ME80. Does that explain a more than 10 times price differential? Probably not, but as usual in this audio hobby, there's huge diminishing returns the higher one goes up the ladder.



jestercow said:


> That will take some time... I got a little carried away and have already ordered the "Earbuds Anonymous" and Smabat ST-10S from Penon, as well as a pair of Blurs. It seems there's always another rabbit-hole in audio...



SMABAT ST10S (assuming it is the black gold version) will need an amp, hope u have a good source to power it.

As for the earbuds anonymous, if you could cancel your order, I hope it is possible to do that. I found it very anonymous as per its namesake. L shaped bassy set with missing treble and it is quite muddy. Non detachable cable too at $50 USD. One of my worse earbud buys in recent times.



RikudouGoku said:


> I believe with most of these budget stuff, they produce them in large batches, so thats why they are so cheap.



Ya I actually asked them on Aliexpress if they could remake the ME80 again.

But the sellers say, for economies of scale, the various China factories produce many pieces of drivers and shells at one time, and it is cheaper to get it in bulk. They need a bare minimum order of perhaps a few hundreds to thousands. So if only a few die hard earbud fans like us ask for it, but it doesn't even cross a hundred folks, they will most likely not even entertain the idea.

The other issue is that some parts are kind of limited edition. For example, factory A only produces the driver, factory B only makes the cable, factory C only makes the shells. Even if they wanted to restart a new production line for the ME80, sometimes one of these factories has closed permanently or the moulds are lost or something. So perhaps the same shell or driver cannot be obtained anymore. And so if a different shell or driver comes in the new remake, perhaps the sound will be different too.

There's lots of forum reports that the new Tingo TC200 sounds different from the old version. Probably the hype made the old one get sold out, and the factories are rushing to make new stock for more orders, but probably something is different internally in the new batches.


----------



## chinmie (Feb 19, 2021)

furyossa said:


> OG EBX is their previous flagship. If they bring it back, it will probably jeopardize the sale of the current favorite. But in my estimation, OG EBX could be in the range of $50-70 and ME80 < $15


or maybe there's a possibility that the materials used (drivers usually the primary factor) are no longer available, so they have to stop making that model. 
at least that's what usually happens to some local earbuds and IEM makers that i know when they're stopping their production model


----------



## 40760

chinmie said:


> or maybe there's a possibility that the materials used (drivers usually the primary factor) are no longer available, so they have to stop making that model.
> at least that's what usually happens to some local earbuds and IEM makers that i know when they're stopping their production model



I remember Willy of Willsound mentioned something like this before. He could not make more of the old MK3 or something due to driver availability.


----------



## gordonderp

Is there a significant difference between the gold version and the non-gold versions of the smabat st10s? I bought the non-gold version after inquiring this thread since I didn't have an amp and didn't really want to get one if there wasn't a big difference.


----------



## chinmie

palestofwhite said:


> I remember Willy of Willsound mentioned something like this before. He could not make more of the old MK3 or something due to driver availability.



yup, that's exactly what happened. his new MK32 does sound similar and about in between the MK1 and MK3 in signature. he retuned my old MK1 and MK3 drivers with his new MK32 tuning, so those two now sound unique compared to his other earbuds. i kept my old MK2 tuning though, because it's sweet as it is


----------



## 40760

chinmie said:


> yup, that's exactly what happened. his new MK32 does sound similar and about in between the MK1 and MK3 in signature. he retuned my old MK1 and MK3 drivers with his new MK32 tuning, so those two now sound unique compared to his other earbuds. i kept my old MK2 tuning though, because it's sweet as it is


My favorites were his original MK2 for the nice low ends followed by MK3 for its smoothness. I haven't tried any of his newer offerings though.


----------



## FranQL (Feb 20, 2021)

chinmie said:


> yup, that's exactly what happened. his new MK32 does sound similar and about in between the MK1 and MK3 in signature. he retuned my old MK1 and MK3 drivers with his new MK32 tuning, so those two now sound unique compared to his other earbuds. i kept my old MK2 tuning though, because it's sweet as it is



The MK32 Sonic looks very good. It costs $ 49.

Although my attention goes more to his PK series.


----------



## 40760

FranQL said:


> The MK32 Sonic looks very good. It costs $ 49.
> 
> Although my attention goes more to his PK series.



With the exception of the original Shozy BK, I have always preferred the larger MX500 shells. To me they almost always sound better, though the PK shells are more comfortable due to its size and more ergonomic shape.

But as of now I'm enjoying the "trumpet shaped" shells of the VE Sun Dice. It sort of lodges perfectly into my ears, though slightly loose fitting with coarse donut foams.


----------



## InstantSilence

What is the smoothest, easy listening, light treble/upper mids earbud? Cost no object


----------



## coflaes

InstantSilence said:


> What is the smoothest, easy listening, light treble/upper mids earbud? Cost no object


Qian39


----------



## raghav20

Hi, can someone please recommend me an earbud under $20 with balance sound and wide soundstage


----------



## InstantSilence

Is the fiio em5 bright in the treble? Is it shouty and piercing?


----------



## RikudouGoku

raghav20 said:


> Hi, can someone please recommend me an earbud under $20 with balance sound and wide soundstage


NiceHCK MX500


----------



## digititus (Feb 21, 2021)

Anyone have any information on this Bud:
Ksearphone Model: Bell-We. Seems there is a regular and bass edition. Impedance: 158Ω Sensitivity: 104dB/mW
Here's the link to Ali
Cheaper than the Bell-Ti. Thoughts?


----------



## InstantSilence

Been trying to get a bunch of various earbuds off Amazon, but they really don't have much options, at least with a lot of th models often discussed here. 

I was trying to use Amazon for the easy return and to get a taste of different signatures in the earbud world.


----------



## mtl171

InstantSilence said:


> Been trying to get a bunch of various earbuds off Amazon, but they really don't have much options, at least with a lot of th models often discussed here.
> 
> I was trying to use Amazon for the easy return and to get a taste of different signatures in the earbud world.


Which ones have you tried so far? I've like the Faael Snow Lotus CE and Faeel Datura Pro (good with eq). I do wish Amazon had more options as I'm pretty impatient with shipping.


----------



## InstantSilence

mtl171 said:


> Which ones have you tried so far? I've like the Faael Snow Lotus CE and Faeel Datura Pro (good with eq). I do wish Amazon had more options as I'm pretty impatient with shipping.


Haven't tried any yet, just now dabbling into Earbuds. 

I got a fiio em5 on the way, to try out. (I've been advised against them, but I can return easily, so not scared) 

My fear is that (I'm sensitive to 2k to 6k peaks and shoutyness) 
Yet at the same time I want a detailed, resolving listen, couldn't care for bass at all. I just want good layering 

So idk what to try. Reading up as much as I can.but I'm short on ideas. 
When I ask the more experienced folks, they each recommend a different bud.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Feb 22, 2021)

InstantSilence said:


> When I ask the more experienced folks, they each recommend a different bud.


Pretty much always happens when it comes to recommendations.

Unfortunately earbuds are most definitely (and initially) a trial-by-error experience as are headphones in general actually... being everyone's tastes, preferences, and ear anatomy are different. Luckily earbuds (and very, very good performing ones) are modestly priced in comparison to iems and full-size headphones. I would suggest you buy one PK shell and one MX shell type to see what your ears prefer size/fit wise and work from there before even chasing a particular signature type. Though I do imagine that most, if not all, of the earbuds that have been recommended to you thus far are probably safe bets for you to test and/or will at least get you pointed in the right direction. Please note, there is also a strong/healthy earbud trade/sell market as well.


----------



## InstantSilence

WoodyLuvr said:


> Pretty much always happens when it comes to recommendations.
> 
> Unfortunately earbuds are most definitely (and initially) a trial-by-error experience as are headphones in general actually... being everyone's tastes, preferences, and anatomy are different. Luckily earbuds (and very, very good performing ones) are modestly priced in comparison to iems and full-size headphones. I would suggest you buy one PK shell and one MX shell type to see what your ears prefer size/fit wise and work from there before even chasing a particular signature type. Though I do imagine that most, if not all, of the earbuds that have been recommended to you thus far are probably safe bets for you to test and/or will at least get you pointed in the right direction. Please note, there is also a strong/healthy earbud trade/sell market as well.


Awesome 
Where do I find the sell/buy stuff for earbuds. The section here on headfi is very short when it comes to buds. 

What are the cheapest mx and pk stuff I can try from Amazon, so local crap, just so I can see what fits? 
I used to wear iems, customs and universal fit, I'm not picky about the fit really. 
I am Picky about the sound 
While I want details and layering, I want it to be dark and peak free, no shoutyness, slow transients if you will.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Feb 22, 2021)

digititus said:


> Anyone have any information on this Bud:
> Ksearphone Model: Bell-We. Seems there is a regular and bass edition. Impedance: 158Ω Sensitivity: 104dB/mW
> Here's the link to Ali
> Cheaper than the Bell-Ti. Thoughts?


Good catch, never seen these before. Must be a new 2021 model falling in between the "New Little Bells" and the "Blue Bell" model lines (2020 Ksearphone Bell-LB*s *and 2020 Ksearphone Bell-Blue).


----------



## 40760

WoodyLuvr said:


> Good catch, never seen these before. Must be a new 2021 model falling in between the "New Little Bells" and the "Blue Bell" model lines (2020 Ksearphone Bell-LB*s *and 2020 Ksearphone Bell-Blue).



I saw a listing of that and it was put up 7 months ago. Very interesting that the bell has so many iterations. I enjoyed the K's 300 Samsara when I had them, but never got into the bell series.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

palestofwhite said:


> I saw a listing of that and it was put up 7 months ago. Very interesting that the bell has so many iterations. I enjoyed the K's 300 Samsara when I had them, but never got into the bell series.


So a late 2020 model... completely missed that somehow   Thank you for the info.


----------



## 40760

WoodyLuvr said:


> So a late 2020 model... completely missed that somehow   Thank you for the info.



According to the listing, Yes. But it can also be earlier. There is only one listing of it at that platform, so it is harder to verify.


----------



## jestercow (Feb 22, 2021)

InstantSilence said:


> Been trying to get a bunch of various earbuds off Amazon, but they really don't have much options, at least with a lot of th models often discussed here.
> 
> I was trying to use Amazon for the easy return and to get a taste of different signatures in the earbud world.


I've tried the FAAEAL Snow Lotus 1.0 and 1+ (both just a hair over $10) and really do like them both. I'd say the 1.0 has a little more sparkle and definitely more soundstage whereas the 1+ is a little more balanced. Also, the 1+ has a 4ft cable that is not very friendly for OTG use. I also snagged a pair of Edifier 185 and 190 but they both went back immediately. Possibly my fault for not giving them a fair shot, but they both were just way too shouty in the treble for me, and it felt like the 1.0 had a similar presentation but more refinement overall. The monks are a pretty safe bet as well, I know they can be polarizing but I think it might just be a QC issue, as I _hated_ them the last time I owned a pair (from Massdrop 2 years ago) but the new set sounds much better. YMMV, obvs.

Edit: Amazon also carries the K's LB and LB-S but $40/$65 is more than I want to spend on a whim...but we'll see how I feel next week lol

Edit #2: Forgot but I also ordered a pair of FAAEAL Datura Pros from Amazon but forgot since they're apparently on the slow boat from China and I don't have them yet. I'm nervous about these as it sounds like they're pretty garbage without EQ and I don't mess around with EQ on my phone for portable use - so these may be going back.


----------



## 40760

I've read some reviews but I don't know if it is worth spending more for the RW-2000 vs RW-1000 Bass Edition. I kind of want to try that style of shell.


----------



## digititus

palestofwhite said:


> I've read some reviews but I don't know if it is worth spending more for the RW-2000 vs RW-1000 Bass Edition. I kind of want to try that style of shell.


Comfort and fit is good for me. You can wear them over ear or hanging. I get best fit and sound over. Can't tell you how different they sound, but the blue is a deal breaker for me.


----------



## astermk

Actually very excited about the NiceHCK DIY MX500s coming my way tomorrow or the day after. I've never had earbuds that didn't sound like trash, but everyone raves about these, so I'm hoping they change my mind.


----------



## HombreCangrejo

astermk said:


> Actually very excited about the NiceHCK DIY MX500s coming my way tomorrow or the day after. I've never had earbuds that didn't sound like trash, but everyone raves about these, so I'm hoping they change my mind.



I like a bit more the RY4S Plus, because I think the bass is slightly better, but you can be sure that it's a really well spent money. They're really good.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Feb 22, 2021)

digititus said:


> Anyone have any information on this Bud:
> Ksearphone Model: Bell-We. Seems there is a regular and bass edition. Impedance: 158Ω Sensitivity: 104dB/mW
> Here's the link to Ali
> Cheaper than the Bell-Ti. Thoughts?





WoodyLuvr said:


> Good catch, never seen these before. Must be a new 2021 model falling in between the "New Little Bells" and the "Blue Bell" model lines (2020 Ksearphone Bell-LB*s *and 2020 Ksearphone Bell-Blue).





palestofwhite said:


> I saw a listing of that and it was put up 7 months ago. Very interesting that the bell has so many iterations. I enjoyed the K's 300 Samsara when I had them, but never got into the bell series.





WoodyLuvr said:


> So a late 2020 model... completely missed that somehow   Thank you for the info.





palestofwhite said:


> According to the listing, Yes. But it can also be earlier. There is only one listing of it at that platform, so it is harder to verify.


Just realized that these are the "*New White Ling (Bell)*", replacing the original 2017 Ksearphone w/ Final Acoustics "_White Ling (Bell)_" (195Ω), and they come in two versions:

*Ksearphone 白铃 Bell-We (aka "White Ling E") - Standard Version (158Ω)*​*Ksearphone 白铃 Bell-We (aka "White Ling E") - Bass Version (158Ω)*​
As *@palestofwhite* has intimated, this model was released in mid-2020 along with another replacement model the "_New Little Bell_" (Ksearphone Bell-LBBs aka "Little Bell S" 30Ω) which replaced the original 2018 Ksearphone Bell-LBB "Little Bell" (30Ω).


----------



## RikudouGoku

NiceHCK EBX21 review: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-ebx21.24985/reviews#review-25359

Rank: S


Great sounding bud but stock cable is overpriced with more downsides than benefits and overall value on the bud isnt that good because of that.


----------



## mtl171

jestercow said:


> I've tried the FAAEAL Snow Lotus 1.0 and 1+ (both just a hair over $10) and really do like them both. I'd say the 1.0 has a little more sparkle and definitely more soundstage whereas the 1+ is a little more balanced. Also, the 1+ has a 4ft cable that is not very friendly for OTG use. I also snagged a pair of Edifier 185 and 190 but they both went back immediately. Possibly my fault for not giving them a fair shot, but they both were just way too shouty in the treble for me, and it felt like the 1.0 had a similar presentation but more refinement overall. The monks are a pretty safe bet as well, I know they can be polarizing but I think it might just be a QC issue, as I _hated_ them the last time I owned a pair (from Massdrop 2 years ago) but the new set sounds much better. YMMV, obvs.
> 
> Edit: Amazon also carries the K's LB and LB-S but $40/$65 is more than I want to spend on a whim...but we'll see how I feel next week lol
> 
> Edit #2: Forgot but I also ordered a pair of FAAEAL Datura Pros from Amazon but forgot since they're apparently on the slow boat from China and I don't have them yet. I'm nervous about these as it sounds like they're pretty garbage without EQ and I don't mess around with EQ on my phone for portable use - so these may be going back.


Do you have a link for the K's? I've been trying to find a domestic source forever.

If you have an android phone, wavelet makes things pretty easy. Plus SamL has even built a EQ config for them. Otherwise, it really is a struggle on iOS devices


----------



## jestercow

mtl171 said:


> Do you have a link for the K's? I've been trying to find a domestic source forever.
> 
> If you have an android phone, wavelet makes things pretty easy. Plus SamL has even built a EQ config for them. Otherwise, it really is a struggle on iOS devices


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08FCFBKGV/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_imm_G6VW1MAC38B5FPR6KNZV


----------



## InstantSilence

What are the *best* (you know... Worth a shot). Earbuds I can get straight from Amazon? So I can see and learn what fit, sizing and sound I like. And also what to expect and be realistic about.


----------



## rprodrigues (Feb 22, 2021)

Any idea where I could find reviews on the K's Bell-lb?

I've been looking for these reviews for a while, but I haven't found any yet.

TIA


----------



## InstantSilence

So I'm new to earbuds and excited. I'm having to use them for quick. On/off when at work,
I'll be pairing it with  tt2 dac/amp 
At my desk. 

Anyways. I never heard any earbuds, 
I got a few cheap ones from aliexpress but they will come when I'm much older. 

I got the fiio em5 (even though I'd been advised against it) as it was the only *higher end* buds on Amazon (I sure wish there were more on Amazon for quick delivery/return) 

Anyways 
I usually listen to abyss 1266 TC, lcd 4z which are outstanding, but am keeping a realistic expectation for iems. 

Any others on Amazon I just don't know about worth a shot?


----------



## jestercow (Feb 23, 2021)

removed by user


----------



## RikudouGoku

rprodrigues said:


> Any idea where I could find reviews on the K's Bell-lb?
> 
> I've been looking for these reviews for a while, but I haven't found any yet.
> 
> TIA


I have that one at B-. So I dont really rec it when there are cheaper buds that are better. (MX500, ME80, X6, RW-9)


----------



## jestercow

RikudouGoku said:


> I have that one at B-. So I dont really rec it when there are cheaper buds that are better. (MX500, ME80, X6, RW-9)


I was trying to link your review for him but the spreadsheet link goes to your review of the ME80 instead


----------



## wskl

rprodrigues said:


> Any idea where I could find reviews on the K's Bell-lb?
> 
> I've been looking for these reviews for a while, but I haven't found any yet.
> 
> TIA



I don't have a review but here's a summary.

Pros:
- clear sound
- detailed mids
- good treble
- comfy, good for small ears

Cons:
- not very big soundstage, it does open up after 40hrs burn-in but still not considered big by earbud standards
- lean bass
- a little shouty for female vocals

Other:
- supposedly there were 2 editions launched in 2018 and 2020, the latter is supposed to be better sounding, mine should be 2018 as I bought it in Q1 2019
- there is also LBBs (with 's' at the end) which has some adjustments to the tuning
- I'm not 100% sure but black version could be using copper cable and the white/silver is using SPC

Personally I do like them, I have the white/silver version and I want to try the black version but it never seems to be heavily discounted during the sales.


----------



## purk

Is the Sennheiser MX980 still highly regarded here?  I just recabled it with Moon Silver Dragon cable V1 and with 4.4 mm balanced cable and was astounded by its glorious performance.


----------



## rprodrigues (Feb 22, 2021)

jestercow said:


> I was trying to link your review for him but the spreadsheet link goes to your review of the ME80 instead



I've noticed that too.
Anyway, I'd like to thank you.

I've read some RikudouGoku's reviews of other earbuds where he compares them to the LBB. Well, he doesn't like them.





wskl said:


> I don't have a review but here's a summary.
> 
> Pros:
> - clear sound
> ...



@wskl

It is more than enougth. Thank you.

I've read in a previous post (I don't remember which one) that the black version would have a warmer sound compared to the (more neutral sound of) white.

My earbuds with smaller shells (pk-based) doesn't sound as good as the 15.4mm ones I own, so I'm still looking for a 'budge' set with small shells.


----------



## 40760 (Feb 23, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> another replacement model the "_New Little Bell_" (Ksearphone Bell-LBBs aka "Little Bell S" 30Ω) which replaced the original 2018 Ksearphone Bell-LBB "Little Bell" (30Ω).



That is an interesting finding. Most listings have replaced the "black bell" with the "black bell S", keeping the black with mic version and the white bell not updated.


----------



## 40760 (Feb 23, 2021)

I can't seem to get past the bright blue or green of both Yincrow and Toneking flagships. I know the original K's LBB was not that well received but the LBBs might have addressed that?

Added the RW-1000 Bass Edition and K's LBBs to cart, as I thought this way I could try out both shell types that will be new to me. Now the wait for the weekends promo.


----------



## Grev

Is there a comparison and experiecne for the current TOTL earbuds? 

Maria2, exb21, em5 etc


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Grev said:


> Is there a comparison and experiecne for the current TOTL earbuds?
> 
> Maria2, exb21, em5 etc


Besides searching this here thread the following two links covers all fairly well as a starting point:
*http://headphonemetal.ldblog.jp/archives/52320906.html
http://www.erji.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2210659*


----------



## BerHon

WanAudio said:


> Hi guys, just wondering if anyone here have tried JCALLY newest line-up (I assume) of earbuds? The EP05, JC10 and EP01? Had the JC10 and EP01 but I'm not sure if the EP05 worth the extra cash just for a detachable MMCX connector.


Hi WanAudio,
I have tried the JCally EP05. At $13USD it's more than worth it. So sorry I am a beginner at this audio thing, so I don't know how to describe the sound quality. My player is an iPhone 5s. Initially, the 16mm moving coil speakers neodymium magnet, gave sharp notes on steel guitar strings. So I let it play straight for 50 hours. After that the sound became magniiiiiiiiiiiiificent to me.

Do please allow me to share my experience.

In Michael Jackson's "Smooth Criminal", in the instrumental introduction, the bass rumbled beautifully, pulsing like a heartbeat (bog-bog, bog-bog...) that gets louder. Very melodious and very clear. But the bass does recede when MJ's vocals enter. The bass does not go far.  It is just politely there. The bass drum felt like it was placed an inch beside my ear. On the duet of the song "Tell Him" by Ms. Dion and Ms. Streisand, on the line "...to love him pass you by", you can clearly hear Ms. Dion's exquisite phrasing, the emotional tremble when she sang the line "If I tremble when I speak" (you can sense the person she was thinking when she sang that line was a real person and her feelings were true and confusing her sense of judgment on what to do). Likewise, the 16mm speakers also displayed prominently the artistry of Ms. Streisand's vocals in holding the very high note line, flat at first and then making it those notes, and her vocals wavelike to finish the line before Ms. Dion joined her.  When Russell Watson sang "Me and Mrs. Jones", he is not just singing inside your head. I felt instead I am "inside" his very throat floating with the soulful notes describing his "love affair" with Mrs. Jones.  On the piece "101 Eastbound by Fourplay, the percussion intro sprinkles majestically, and in the entire song, Bob James keyboards, Lee Ritenour's strings, Harvey Mason's drums, and Nathan East bass, were all there. All four players and their instruments were equally about an arm's length from me, surrounding me at the center. No instrument was positioned far or near the others. All were equally near me. Like my head expanded into a big room to accommodate them all. Again on the song "Incanto" by Yanni from the album "Inspirato", even though you know you are in an ancient stadium the music and the notes, vocals, and the orchestra, was simply swirling, dancing around you, arm's length. The same feeling of fulfillment was felt playing Swedish House Mafia's techno piece "Save the World" or Don William's "You're my best friend", or The Eagles- "Take it Easy". With these earbuds, you know Ms. Lisa Ono was giving justice to the guitar nylon strings on her bossa nova piece 'Gentle On My Mind".

No matter how many instruments are added, it seems there is always room inside your head for them all. I find no discriminatory filters. They all sound prominently clear to me (although I might be subjective here and wrong- please guide me), and near me without anyone stealing any scene from another when their turn to come forward comes. I tested it also on my Huawei Android phone, I reinforced the earbuds with JCallys JM04 pro. How do I describe the result? Ah.... It's like I was eating a very delicious chiffon cake, and then when the dongle was attached to the cellphone with JCally Ep05 on the other end of the dongle, the chiffon transformed itself into a very moist and delectable chocolate black forest cake. Very addictive. But I prefer the iPhone (especially iPhone 4s) over any Andoid device. I think if my magnificent Nokia 3310 is still alive, that would be my franchise player for these earbuds.

And these were played at 2 bars or slightly above 50% of the iPhone 5s volume. That is the sound after 50 hours of straight playing. No more samurai-blade sharpness of the high notes. And the bass rumble event went deeper. Reallly deeeeeep.

Comparing it with Auglamour T200..... ah, if fulfillment has a score scale like 1-10 (10 highest, 1 lowest), Auglamour for me is 7 (contestable of course) and JCally EP05 is 9. Here are my reasons. The price of the latter is 50% that of Auglamour, the material is well-crafted metal, and the mmcx cable beats Auglamour rubber coated cable by a mile. Plus Auglamour needs the full power of my iPhone to start performing, and a pair of ear hooks to keep it in place in my ear. Lastly, the seller was very trustworthy. Very fair. Very responsive. My complaint was immediately resolved. I ordered again. 

Versus the KBear Knight Flagship, its sound seems like it's a younger brother to JCally EP05 but more expensive. My rating is not yet conclusive as I am still letting Kbear have its 50 hours also for fairness sake. Vs. a DIY MX500 (also really outstanding but different sound quality), I am at a deadlock. The MX500 is 60% cheaper than JCally EP05. If my budget is only $13USD, and good for only 1 pair of earbuds, then JCally it is. Price regardless. But if I am a collector and have enough cash, then I'll buy it all. T200 (just needs an affordable amplifier, ear hooks), MX500 (really meticulous, and gentle tender loving care hands to make it last for years), KBear (as backup)

I love music. I love 60's-70's music. So passionate, soulful. Now I love listening to them in my earbuds. I wear glasses. The legs of my prescription glasses hurt my ears when I wore an over-the-ear headset like my V-Moda. Earbuds, unlike in-ears, don't insist on crawling inside. I agree the sound is fuller, but the ear tips are hit or miss things. It hurts for days if you don't have the right tips. Earbuds remind me of being in the lounge of a beautiful hotel, overlooking the pool and the green garden, listening to a surround sound USD$3K sound system. The music swirls around you but the voice of your wife and children are never excluded, never too far away to answer their beck and call.

Hope this helps your quest. I am new to this, so please accept my sincerest apologies, for not being able to describe the sound quality in formal audio engineering terms.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Feb 23, 2021)

*Wong Kuan Wae 黄冠维* has another new earbud model! Welcome the Limited Edition Stingray!


----------



## InstantSilence

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Wong Kuan Wae 黄冠维* has another new earbud model! Welcome the Limited Edition Stingray!


Where does one buy all these strange buds you guys have... Amazon and ebay are dry....


----------



## WoodyLuvr

InstantSilence said:


> Where does one buy all these strange buds you guys have... Amazon and ebay are dry....


Blur are bought direct from Wong like many other custom models.  AliExpress and Taobao are other strong sources for earbuds especially over here in Asia.


----------



## InstantSilence

WoodyLuvr said:


> Blur are bought direct from Wong like many other custom models.  AliExpress and Taobao are other strong sources for earbuds especially over here in Asia.


I wish usa had easier access...


----------



## bigtim

Starting the day with the WillSound MK32 Sonic. Currently my favourite earbud - it's got a big full sound, probably the most speaker-like buds I own.


----------



## FranQL (Feb 23, 2021)

bigtim said:


> Empezando el día con WillSound MK32 Sonic. Actualmente es mi auricular favorito: tiene un gran sonido completo, probablemente el auricular más parecido a un altavoz que tengo.


I have never bought from willsound, the prices are very good, but ... it ships by EMS and I'm afraid of paying fees to europe.


----------



## 40760

bigtim said:


> Starting the day with the WillSound MK32 Sonic. Currently my favourite earbud - it's got a big full sound, probably the most speaker-like buds I own.



Beautiful. Did you get that direct from Willy himself?


----------



## bigtim

palestofwhite said:


> Beautiful. Did you get that direct from Willy himself?



I've got a different version of the MK32 direct from Willy but these were from Rholupat.


----------



## earfanatic

FranQL said:


> I have never bought from willsound, the prices are very good, but ... it ships by EMS and I'm afraid of paying fees to europe.


May not supply the above, but THIS shop states that they pay tax & duty to selected European countries, also USA and Canada.


----------



## FranQL

earfanatic said:


> May not supply the above, but THIS shop states that they pay tax & duty to selected European countries, also USA and Canada.


It's a shame, the collar is more expensive than the dog


----------



## RikudouGoku

jestercow said:


> I was trying to link your review for him but the spreadsheet link goes to your review of the ME80 instead


That was a mistake. I havent reviewed it, only some comparisons to it from other reviews.


----------



## jestercow

RikudouGoku said:


> That was a mistake. I havent reviewed it, only some comparisons to it from other reviews.


I was not trying to throw you under the bus with my comment, I hope you did not take it as such. Your work in keeping both reviews, comparisons, and rankings updated is incredibly helpful to newcomers to the earbud world (such as myself), so thank you. Please keep the hits coming, you really are doing the Lord's work here XD


----------



## jestercow

palestofwhite said:


> I can't seem to get past the bright blue or green of both Yincrow and Toneking flagships. I know the original K's LBB was not that well received but the LBBs might have addressed that?
> 
> Added the RW-1000 Bass Edition and K's LBBs to cart, as I thought this way I could try out both shell types that will be new to me. Now the wait for the weekends promo.


I'm in sailing the same ocean in a different boat from you, it would seem  I have the Yincrow and Toneking flagships in my cart partially because of their crazy colors - I'm not a 'green' person but for some reason that green Toneking _really _talks to me! I'm new to Aliexpress, do they generally do promos over the weekends?


----------



## RikudouGoku

jestercow said:


> I'm in sailing the same ocean in a different boat from you, it would seem  I have the Yincrow and Toneking flagships in my cart partially because of their crazy colors - I'm not a 'green' person but for some reason that green Toneking _really _talks to me! I'm new to Aliexpress, do they generally do promos over the weekends?


You can check the sale dates here:
https://promossale.com/aliexpress-sale-dates-calendar-2021-events/

They usually have a bigger sale like once a month.




The march anniversary sale should be the one to look forward to.


----------



## jestercow (Feb 23, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> You can check the sale dates here:
> https://promossale.com/aliexpress-sale-dates-calendar-2021-events/
> 
> They usually have a bigger sale like once a month.
> ...


I'll just leave this stuff in my cart for a few weeks then - not like they'd be here anytime soon anyway. Thanks for the info! Looking forward to the RW2000 & Dendroaspis and getting to hear what a big boy earbud can do.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jestercow said:


> T
> 
> I'll just leave this stuff in my cart for a few weeks then - not like they'd be here anytime soon anyway. Thanks for the info! Looking forward to the RW2000 & Dendroaspis and getting to hear what a big boy earbud can do.


I might buy the RW-2000 as well, not really interested in anything else at the moment....


----------



## 40760

Well... I added the RW-2000 back into the cart. So I guess it's either RW-2000 or the RW-1000 Bass Edition and LBBs. I have till this weekend to think about it though.


----------



## FranQL

RikudouGoku said:


> I might buy the RW-2000 as well, not really interested in anything else at the moment....


After having tried EBX21 ... will you buy a personal unit? or is it not so addictive?


----------



## RikudouGoku

FranQL said:


> After having tried EBX21 ... will you buy a personal unit? or is it not so addictive?


I guess I will ask for a review unit first but if I get declined I will probably buy it myself during the sale.


Hoping that the RW-2000 has a similar bass to the X6.


----------



## jestercow (Feb 23, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> Well... I added the RW-2000 back into the cart. So I guess it's either RW-2000 or the RW-1000 Bass Edition and LBBs. I have till this weekend to think about it though.


I would love to find a comparison between these (RW1000 vs RW2000) as well


----------



## astermk

NiceHCK DIY MX500s in, been listening to them a bit today.

Tuning: I would call it mildly mid-forward (can be somewhat shouty at times) but with decent air and sparkle up in the treble. Decent bass extension for an earbud, I guess, but worse than even the worst of IEMs. That's a given, though. The relative lack of bass does make these sound very thin and hollow compared to an IEM, though, and instruments simply lack a lot of body. They respond well to EQ, though. You could add 3-4dB of midbass and they do handle it well.

Soundstage: Friggin massive for a tiny $10 earbud. It competes with semi open over ears I've heard, like the Samson SR850 I have. Very impressive. Certainly bigger than the KZ ZAX.

Detail retrieval: Decent for the price range. I've heard the KZ ZST which also go for $10 and I think these are slightly more resolving.

Imaging: Not awful but it is somewhat fuzzy and smeary. Definitely can't compete with multi driver hybrids.

Design: The MX500 shell is very very ugly to me. Nice paint job, though. I have the glittery blue ones. And a surprisingly good cable for, again, just 10 bucks.

Overall, these won't be making my IEMs retire anytime soon. But for $10? Excellent to have just for the amazing soundstage, or just for having a different form factor option. Money well spent even for an earbud skeptic like myself.


----------



## RikudouGoku

astermk said:


> NiceHCK DIY MX500s in, been listening to them a bit today.
> 
> Tuning: I would call it mildly mid-forward (can be somewhat shouty at times) but with decent air and sparkle up in the treble. Decent bass extension for an earbud, I guess, but worse than even the worst of IEMs. That's a given, though. The relative lack of bass does make these sound very thin and hollow compared to an IEM, though, and instruments simply lack a lot of body. They respond well to EQ, though. You could add 3-4dB of midbass and they do handle it well.
> 
> ...


If you want iem bass without sacrificing everything else, get the Yincrow X6. You be surprised.


----------



## InstantSilence

Which is the least shouty yet detailed bud out there?


----------



## jogawag (Feb 23, 2021)

InstantSilence said:


> Which is the least shouty yet detailed bud out there?


If you sit quietly in your house and listen to music, I would recommend the expensive and heavy MoonDrop Chaconnne.
If you listen to music outside the house on foot, I would recommend the less expensive and lighter Edifier H185.
Both are smaller shells than the MX500.
And both seem to be available on Amazon.com.


----------



## jestercow

InstantSilence said:


> I wish usa had easier access...


There are also Penon Audio and Rholupat which ship to USA. I placed an order with Penon last week (during Chinese new year) and _the earbuds_ _only took 2 days to arrive_ _from Hong Kong to America_. I placed an order with Rholupat this afternoon so we'll see how that one goes.


----------



## uneri (Jun 24, 2021)

‎


----------



## RikudouGoku

uneri said:


> I bought my RW-2000 after reading a lot of Chinese reviews from people who own both earbuds, that the RW-2000 is a clear and noticeable upgrade from RW-1000, in sound signature and technicalities.
> 
> Most of them mentioned that the RW-2000 improves in bass quantity and fuller sounding mids, thus making it more balanced sounding than RW-1000.
> Also, the strength of RW-1000, the crisp treble, remains present in RW-2000 with a good sense of transparency and airiness.
> ...


Did they compare it with the RW-1000 or the RW-1000 bass pro version though?


----------



## uneri (Jun 24, 2021)

‎


----------



## jestercow (Feb 23, 2021)

Got home to find a DHL parcel on my front porch, my order from Penon arrived!! I rip open the package like a 7 year old on Christmas morning and am greeted by two small boxes: one for a pair of Earbud Anonymous and the other contained a pair of Smabat ST10S (silver). I spent awhile with each and have one question for you guys: does anyone want to buy a pair of ST10s?

😅🤣😂🤣😂


----------



## FranQL

jestercow said:


> Got home to find a DHL parcel on my front porch, my order from Penon arrived!! I rip open the package like a 7 year old on Christmas morning and am greeted by two small boxes: one for a pair of Earbud Anonymous and the other contained a pair of Smabat ST10s (silver). I spent a few minutes with each and just have one be question for you guys: does anyone want to buy a pair of ST10s?
> 
> 😅🤣😂🤣😂


 shipping would cost too much ...


----------



## jestercow

FranQL said:


> shipping would cost too much ...


I thought “how bad could it be?” so i looked it up...I could have died my dude!!!


----------



## jestercow

So before you ask, the EA buds are fine. Nothing special, I feel like they’re Monk+ on steroids. Right out of the box I’m listening to TheFatRat and getting some nice bass from them, so pleasant surprise there. I switch over to the ST10s amd there’s just something _wrong_ with the vocals. I put on some Mandolin Orange and everything is going great - the instruments sound just beautiful! Then the disappointment hits: the vocals sound like they’re coming from a completely different headphone! It must be something weird with the frequency response, it reminds me of the Fostex T60RP where the vocals are just _*off*_. I tried on my phone, I tried on my desktop rig...no difference at all. I’ll leave them playing overnight and check them after 24 hours but I’m pretty sure they’re going back.


----------



## Sam L

jestercow said:


> Got home to find a DHL parcel on my front porch, my order from Penon arrived!! I rip open the package like a 7 year old on Christmas morning and am greeted by two small boxes: one for a pair of Earbud Anonymous and the other contained a pair of Smabat ST10s (silver). I spent a few minutes with each and just have one be question for you guys: does anyone want to buy a pair of ST10s?
> 
> 😅🤣😂🤣😂



Yeah, the silvers aren't very inspiring. I posted some compensation files on this thread or mine (forget) that improve them significantly. Here's a more detailed write up of my impressions of the silver version smabats

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbud-target-curve-tests.944006/page-17#post-16120062


----------



## wskl

RikudouGoku said:


> You can check the sale dates here:
> https://promossale.com/aliexpress-sale-dates-calendar-2021-events/
> 
> They usually have a bigger sale like once a month.
> ...



For the March Anniversary Sale, in the 2 weeks leading up to the sale, if you use the mobile app there should be some mini-games or events that you can participate to get some extra coupons.


----------



## RikudouGoku

wskl said:


> For the March Anniversary Sale, in the 2 weeks leading up to the sale, if you use the mobile app there should be some mini-games or events that you can participate to get some extra coupons.


yeah, there are usually stuff like that before big sales. Sometimes you can get coupons that will give you 10 usd or even 20 usd off from your orders.


----------



## 40760 (Feb 23, 2021)

uneri said:


> From what I've read from reviews of the Bass Pro version, despite the name it isn't really that bassy of an upgrade, and still remains quite forward sounding like the original RW-1000.



I need my bass, so the RW-1000 has been removed from cart. I guess the RW-2000 should be closer to the X6, or in the lack of better words, a closer upgrade of it than the RW-1000. BTW which termination did you get for the cable?


----------



## uneri (Jun 24, 2021)

‎


----------



## 40760

uneri said:


> I got the 4.4mm version, but RW-2000 is only 16 ohms, so I can't say for sure if going balanced will be better sounding.
> 
> X6 is very bass-centric and darker sounding than RW-2000, so the RW-2000 is actually more of a combination and refinement of the original RW-1000 (clean treble) & the high impedance version (added bass).



Sounds good to me. I will pick the better bass of the two, which in this case is clearly the RW-2000?

Perhaps also in regular 3.5mm termination since you're right about the low impedance. Easier to use with most portable devices as well.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Many users wonder where to get hooks like those of Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis.

Buy 5 bucks for a couple from them


Spoiler



https://aliexpress.ru/item/1005001790820128.html


But there is a cheaper option of 20 pieces


Spoiler



https://aliexpress.ru/item/4000175140899.html








Or such options


Spoiler



https://aliexpress.ru/item/4000198974651.html
https://aliexpress.ru/item/32325419034.html
https://aliexpress.ru/item/32858675254.html
https://aliexpress.ru/item/32805267675.html
https://aliexpress.ru/item/32540007953.html



I note good compatibility with
Toneking TO400s / TO600 / Dendroaspis Viridis
Yincrow RW-1000 / RW-2000
Astrotec Lyra Nature and others with similar shells.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Feb 24, 2021)

uneri said:


> From what I've read from reviews of the Bass Pro version, despite the name it isn't really that bassy of an upgrade, and still remains quite forward sounding like the original RW-1000.
> 
> There's actually also a high impedance version of RW-1000 (80 ohm) only available on Taobao, which some say is more obvious of an upgrade in bass from the original RW-1000 than the Bass Pro version, and also less forward but more smooth sounding instead.


If you want RW-1000 with bass try RW-2000


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Feb 24, 2021)

digititus said:


> Anyone have any information on this Bud:
> Ksearphone Model: Bell-We. Seems there is a regular and bass edition. Impedance: 158Ω Sensitivity: 104dB/mW
> Here's the link to Ali
> Cheaper than the Bell-Ti. Thoughts?


I tried Bell-We Bass Version, but Yincrow RW-2000 I like more


----------



## uneri (Jun 24, 2021)

‎


----------



## 40760

Alex.Grimm said:


> If you want RW-1000 with bass try RW-2000



I'm considering the RW-2000, but I'm curious after seeing that you sold it away and kept the Zen 2.0. Can you compare the both and is there a reason you kept one over the other?


----------



## jestercow

Update on the Penon EA earbuds, I initially had installed the black foams that came with them and was relatively pleased for the $25 paid, but noticed there was a bit of muddiness and lack of sparkle in the highs. I then removed the foams and spent some time with the buds without any foams and the top end was perfect, but there was some weight missing from the lows. I then put a pair of donuts on from a VE EX pack I had lying around and am pleased to say that these are, so far, my favorite buds. The highs have a beautiful sparkle and there's a nice stage to the sound. The mids are filled out and they have noticeably more bass than any of my other buds. I do not have a vast collection to compare them to yet, but they remind me of my FAAEAL snow lotus 1.0 but with a bit more heft down low. I would strongly recommend these buds to anyone looking for a solid set at this pricepoint.


----------



## XP_98

FranQL said:


> I have never bought from willsound, the prices are very good, but ... it ships by EMS and I'm afraid of paying fees to europe.


If you consider buying used, my Willsound Beast on sale here (and I am in Europe) :
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-willsound-mk32-beast-earbuds.947035/


----------



## Luis1316

Lately I have been looking at some earbud options; I'm thinking about trying some since they look very interesting and comfortable. 
I have read some recommendations and I can't decide between DQSM Turandot and Yincrow RW-2000 (don't know If Turandot is still a great recommendation tho). I'm looking for a technicality monster; something with great soundstage and airiness but not shouty. 
Any other recommendation besides those two? My budget could go up to 250 euros.

Thanks.


----------



## jestercow

Luis1316 said:


> Lately I have been looking at some earbud options; I'm thinking about trying some since they look very interesting and comfortable.
> I have read some recommendations and I can't decide between DQSM Turandot and Yincrow RW-2000 (don't know If Turandot is still a great recommendation tho). I'm looking for a technicality monster; something with great soundstage and airiness but not shouty.
> Any other recommendation besides those two? My budget could go up to 250 euros.
> 
> Thanks.


The Moondrop Chaconne may fit the bill, just to add another option for you


----------



## Sam L

Luis1316 said:


> Lately I have been looking at some earbud options; I'm thinking about trying some since they look very interesting and comfortable.
> I have read some recommendations and I can't decide between DQSM Turandot and Yincrow RW-2000 (don't know If Turandot is still a great recommendation tho). I'm looking for a technicality monster; something with great soundstage and airiness but not shouty.
> Any other recommendation besides those two? My budget could go up to 250 euros.
> 
> Thanks.



If you are relatively new to earbuds and are open to eq, I'd recommend the datura pro with my compensation file.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbud-target-curve-tests.944006/page-10#post-16015098

Here's a comparison with the smabat s-10s silver and fiio em5:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbud-target-curve-tests.944006/page-17#post-16120062


----------



## Luis1316

Oh, and If it has 4.4 mm balanced conection or MMCX conector it would be a big plus.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

uneri said:


> Is it sound-related, fit-wise or other aspects?


K's Bell-We Bass Version has more volume and scene, the sound is more lively and engaging, brighter, the overall sound is more detailed and lighter. Booming bass more in RW-2000 and a wider range of bass in Bell-We. The shells in the Bell-We are more comfortable with foams.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Luis1316 said:


> Lately I have been looking at some earbud options; I'm thinking about trying some since they look very interesting and comfortable.
> I have read some recommendations and I can't decide between DQSM Turandot and Yincrow RW-2000 (don't know If Turandot is still a great recommendation tho). I'm looking for a technicality monster; something with great soundstage and airiness but not shouty.
> Any other recommendation besides those two? My budget could go up to 250 euros.
> 
> Thanks.


Forget about the turandot if you have anything close to my preference....


----------



## ValSilva (Feb 24, 2021)

Alex.Grimm said:


> If you want RW-1000 with bass try RW-2000


Between Yinman 600 and Yincrow RW-2000, which would you prefer? Speaking about micro details, bass and everything. TIA


----------



## Alex.Grimm

palestofwhite said:


> I'm considering the RW-2000, but I'm curious after seeing that you sold it away and kept the Zen 2.0. Can you compare the both and is there a reason you kept one over the other?


I sold RW-2000 because I have so many earbuds that I rarely use. I was sad to part with rw-2000, since they really have one of the best sounds for the price, they have the  MMCX, the shells that can be worn straight or behind the ear, hooks from toneking are also suitable for them. Zen 2 I also sell, as well as many other earbuds that I don't listen to.

Zen 2 earbuds are for lovers of very warm sound, they have a dull and unclear sound due to the warmth in the sound. I like Yinman 600 better, It's clearer and with more bass


----------



## Alex.Grimm

ValSilva said:


> Between Yinman 600 e Yincrow RW-2000, which would you prefer? Speaking about micro details, bass and everything. TIA


I chose Yinman 600 because I like a more relaxed comfortable sound with deep bass and not bright sound, but with noticeable high frequencies. The sound speed is better in rw-2000, they are straight, more detailed, better high, scene and looks more expensive, better build quality


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Luis1316 said:


> Lately I have been looking at some earbud options; I'm thinking about trying some since they look very interesting and comfortable.
> I have read some recommendations and I can't decide between DQSM Turandot and Yincrow RW-2000 (don't know If Turandot is still a great recommendation tho). I'm looking for a technicality monster; something with great soundstage and airiness but not shouty.
> Any other recommendation besides those two? My budget could go up to 250 euros.
> 
> Thanks.


There are many options and they will differ in sound, I advise you to read the reviews on:
(some are more expensive than your budget)

Ksearphone Bell-Ti  120Ω
Ksearphone Bell-Ti Onmyoji 30Ω
Ksearphone Bell-Blue
Ksearphone Bell-We Bass Version
Moondrop CHACONNE
Moondrop Liebesleid
VE Sun
NICEHCK EBX21
Simphonio Dragon 3
Simphonio Dragon 2 Plus
DQSM Turandot
Yincrow RW-2000
Yincrow RW-1000 Bass Version 3.5mm
Astrotec Lyra Nature
Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis


----------



## Sam L

Such incredible goodness for $5.99, compensated of course!


----------



## digititus

Alex.Grimm said:


> There are many options and they will differ in sound, I advise you to read the reviews on:
> (some are more expensive than your budget)
> 
> Ksearphone Bell-Ti  120Ω
> ...


Which is your favorite  Ksearphone model?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

digititus said:


> Which is your favorite  Ksearphone model?


I try only K's 32, Nameless, K300, and K's Bell-WE Bass Version. I liked the latter the most. But I want to try K's Bell-Blue after the small review of one buyer "I own older K's earphones like the 300 Samsara and 600 but after getting the Bell Ti 120ohm, I wanted to satisfy my curiosity for the model which sits in between generations. The Blue Bell or "Smurf" is exactly what you would expect it to be if you have been following K's progression. Older K's plastic shell earphones have rolled-off treble with an emphasis on bass response. The newest Bell Ti has a neutral tuning with excellent detail. The Blue Bell splits the difference by having most of the detail of the Bell Ti with some added quantity to the mid-bass and bass response. If you are considering the latest flagship Bell Ti or Bell Onmyoji earphones and want an accurate/neutral tuning, you should stay with that plan. However, If you want a slightly warmer, more relaxed performance that is closer to the K's earphones of yesterday + the modern aluminum shell this might be for you!"


----------



## FranQL

@Alex.Grimm with what sources does yinman move 600 ohm?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

FranQL said:


> @Alex.Grimm with what sources does yinman move 600 ohm?


dtr1 or other powerful dap or amp


----------



## FranQL (Feb 24, 2021)

Will E1DA SG3 have enough power?


with 4490 I have xduoo x3II but I don't think I can move it, I understand why you like this combination ... Ak combines very well with warmth


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Feb 24, 2021)

FranQL said:


> Will E1DA SG3 have enough power?


9038S ok to enjoy the sound, need cable 2.5mm 4core mmcx


----------



## Alex.Grimm

FranQL said:


> xduoo x3II


Little power


----------



## FranQL

Your sound preference is very similar to mine (but never over the top bass), so I'm going to take your recommendation very seriously. I prefer the relaxed tone to the bright one or with many details, especially for long sessions.


----------



## FranQL (Feb 24, 2021)

Alex.Grimm said:


> 9038S ok to enjoy the sound, need cable 2.5mm 4core mmcx


I usually use CEMA cables, but if you have any suggestions, they are welcome.


----------



## uneri (Jun 24, 2021)

‎


----------



## uneri (Jun 24, 2021)

‎


----------



## Luis1316

uneri said:


> +1 on the Moondrop Chaconne (comes in 4.4mm, but no MMCX)
> 
> Ksearphone Bell-Ti Onmyoji 2021 (Black White Version on Aliexpress) fits exactly your needs, but is a little out of your budget at the current pricing.
> Though I think if you can wait for big sales period, it's possible you can get it just below your budget.
> ...


I didn't know that Onmyoji had a 4.4mm, that would be a good one to consider. I'm trying to decide between Onmyoji and Chaconne. Would the price difference be worth it? I read some mixed reviews on the Chaconne, but I guess a lot of them had fit issues. On the other hand, I have only read a japanese Onmyoji review that seems to still preffer the Chaconne over it.


----------



## 40760

For fit I think the Onmyoji's compact bell shape will be safer. I had the Liebesleid which you can really feel it after some time of wear and the Chaconne looks similar to it.


----------



## uneri (Jun 24, 2021)

‎


----------



## InstantSilence

I don't know where else to ask this. 
But since some or I assume most of you, use Daps or portable players... 

I'm needing a dap to power upcoming buds I might get. 
But also, just as important I need a dap that has USB in (be it, micro B, C, whatever)  and toslink/optical out, while bypassing the internal Dac of the dap. 

I need this so I can connect my laptop to my desktop dac ( cannot use USB in on my desktop dac) 

Thanks guys and sorry to gunk up the thread with this.


----------



## jestercow

InstantSilence said:


> I don't know where else to ask this.
> But since some or I assume most of you, use Daps or portable players...
> 
> I'm needing a dap to power upcoming buds I might get.
> ...


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/looking-for-a-usb-to-toslink-converter.955842/#post-16200508

looks like you already asked this question in the appropriate place and got several recommendations; please try to keep this already huge thread on-topic.


----------



## baskingshark (Feb 24, 2021)

InstantSilence said:


> I don't know where else to ask this.
> But since some or I assume most of you, use Daps or portable players...
> 
> I'm needing a dap to power upcoming buds I might get.
> ...



What earbuds are u intending to get? Like very high impedance/low sensitivity kind? Those will need something with more juice. For most buds < 32 ohm I think most modern day DAPs will have no issue powering them. But quite a few earbuds have north of 150 ohm impedance, so you might need to consider alternative DAPs as such.

I'm using the Shanling Q1 and Sony Walkman A55 (Mr Walkman FE V2 firmware mod) DAPs for most of my buds. The Shanling Q1 is more neutral, the A55 with firmware mod is very coloured and warm and analoguish. The Q1 is more powerful but can't power earbuds with say 150 ohm and above. But I suppose if you use a lineout to connect the DAP to an external amp then that isn't an issue. These 2 DAPs also have BT capabilities if you are into wireless gear.

U can also consider using a smartphone with a USB dongle eg Tempotec Sonata HD Pro. That is a more cost effective solution than a dedicated DAP, plus you won't need to bring a second device around. Only issue are these dongles generally drain battery from the smartphone or the smartphone may be limited in memory, especially if you use a lot of lossless files. If you have charging on the go or external SD cards on your smartphone, then no biggie.

EDIT: sorry the Shanling Q1 and Sony A55 don't have optical out, might need to check other DAPs which have this function.


----------



## 40760

I love earbuds but their lack of isolation made them strictly for home use, thus I mainly use desktop Amp/DAC solutions. It is also cheaper too versus a portable player/dongle equivalent that can decently power above 150ohms.


----------



## 40760

With all the talk of K's Bell Series and more options surfacing, I decided to pull the trigger on the RW-2000 before things get out of hand. Now the wait begins and hopefully I can receive them in a week or so.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Alex.Grimm said:


> I try only K's 32, Nameless, K300, and K's Bell-WE Bass Version. I liked the latter the most. But I want to try K's Bell-Blue after the small review of one buyer "I own older K's earphones like the 300 Samsara and 600 but after getting the Bell Ti 120ohm, I wanted to satisfy my curiosity for the model which sits in between generations. The Blue Bell or "Smurf" is exactly what you would expect it to be if you have been following K's progression. Older K's plastic shell earphones have rolled-off treble with an emphasis on bass response. The newest Bell Ti has a neutral tuning with excellent detail. The Blue Bell splits the difference by having most of the detail of the Bell Ti with some added quantity to the mid-bass and bass response. If you are considering the latest flagship Bell Ti or Bell Onmyoji earphones and want an accurate/neutral tuning, you should stay with that plan. However, If you want a slightly warmer, more relaxed performance that is closer to the K's earphones of yesterday + the modern aluminum shell this might be for you!"


Concur, I also found my buddy's Smurf to be very old school Ks sounding as well. This is a very accurate description. Since I already have a number of warm/dark bassy earbuds I went for the more neutral and ear friendly *Ks Bell-Ti *_*(120Ω; aka "Titanium Ling")*_ which have been excellent for very extended listening (super comfortable and absolutely no listening fatigue to speak of).


uneri said:


> Most of the Chinese reviews I've come across for Bell Blue described it as having a similar bright sound signature like the Moondrop Chaconne.
> Very well extended in the treble region with a wonderful sense of detail, transparency and airiness, that's excellent for female vocals, violin etc.
> 
> Not too sure about the bass part though.
> While the general consensus is that the Bell Blue has even better treble than Bell-Ti & Onmyoji 2020, some did mention that it has slightly lesser bass quantity compared to the latter two?


Wouldn't call the Bell Smurf bright though... it is still a rather warm earbud. The Smurf does have some sparkle in the treble that people like... very nice treble however, it is fatiguing for me but I wouldn't categorize it as being bright or even sibilant rather maybe a bit "excited".

I think most of these reviews that you speak of are comparing the 32Ω Bell Smurf (Blue Bell) with the 32Ω version of the Bell-Ti and not the 120Ω variant which is most definitely a step-up from even the Smurf in most all regards besides bass... whatever the Bell-Ti 120Ω lacks in bass depth (slam) it makes up for it with excellent bass detail and timbre.


uneri said:


> Wouldn't recommend the Turandot if your preference is for airy treble, as it's a little warmer sounding compared the others mentioned above.


Concur completely; the Turandot is a very warm, almost dark earbud... great for extended listening and for those sensitive to bright/sibilant sound signatures. Though they are a tad heavy for some I surprisingly find them very comfortable to wear with no issue.


----------



## 40760

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur, I also found my buddy's Smurf to be very old school Ks sounding as well. This is a very accurate description.



I have loved the sound of the K's 300 Samsara I used to own and was thinking of getting another set, but this has piqued my interest in the blue bell.


----------



## digititus

Do Ksearphones have a website? Dedicated online store? Would like to do some more research.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

digititus said:


> Do Ksearphones have a website? Dedicated online store? Would like to do some more research.


Probably the closest you can get to what you want would be via Kaisheng Technology's official store on Taobao *here*


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Probably the closest you can get to what you want would be via Kaisheng Technology's official store on Taobao *here*


K's Poseidon looks amazing. First time to see this model.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

furyossa said:


> K's Poseidon looks amazing. First time to see this model.


Yes, the _Ksearphone w/ Final Acoustics Poseidon (215Ω)_ was quite the cat's meow when it debuted back in 2017. The more recent flagship Bell-Ti has replaced it sonically speaking though. Really surprised to see a few New Old Stock listed as it was discontinued some time ago.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Reminder to vote for the NiceHCK ME80 to come back:
http://www.strawpoll.me/42665519/r

I will send the poll to niceHCK tomorrow.


----------



## Nool

I've been playing around with EQ on a few different buds, namely the Yincrow X6/RW9, Rambo 2 and BK2. Figured I'd post my thoughts.

The BK2 is definitely my favorite. There's no warmth, so it has a very "sterile" sound, but it easily has the best resolution, as well as very good timbre. After using EQ to clean up sibilance between 4khz-10khz it sounds great, very clean and rich, the mids in particular are very enjoyable. Note weight is about average though, maybe a little better than the X6 and RW9. Very clean, rich, but "sterile" sound.

As far as I can tell the X6 and RW9 use the same 15.5mm 32ohm drivers; overall resolution, timbre, and note weight are pretty much the same between them. After EQ I prefer the X6 though, it was more coherent across the mids, whereas the RW9 required more equalization to reach similar tuning, which degraded sound quality a bit, imo. Bass and mids sound better controlled on the X6, whereas upper mids and treble sound similar on both (after EQ). The resolution, timbre and note weight of the X6/RW9 aren't amazing but definitely acceptable, I'd consider them a standard for what earbuds can offer.

The Rambo 2 definitely has the best soundstage, as well as being the only bud I have that has a good strong note weight, giving it an immersive and strong, authoritative sound. However the resolution on it is lacking, about as good as the X6; in fact the X6 might have better resolution due to its thinner sounding notes, though not by much. Timbre on the Rambo 2 is a bit dull as well, notes are well controlled but don't sound very rich or detailed, again not much difference from the X6. So for $60 extra, all you get is larger soundstage and stronger notes, and a worse fit.

For now, all I'm using is my BK2, or the X6 if I want more warmth.


----------



## InstantSilence (Feb 25, 2021)

Just some impressions of the fiio em5.
My first earbud, ever.
I enjoy the fast easy one and off feeling of an earbud and that it is also have a thr open back effect at work and hiking ect...

Fidelity is poop, I've heard 30$ in ears that throw up over these fiios. But that can't be a fair comparison as the seal matters a lot. These are comfortable. But they sound better if I put them at a angle, something that cancels when I start walking. Anyways thats just normal i suppose, as these just rest.

The sound is horrid, I haven't even as much heard other buds out there, and my quest starts and stops with these.
I'm afraid to hear what cheaper iems can or cannot do.

I put the old dynamic equalizer to give these the bass I needed and the upper mid deep that I needed to have comfy long listening.
Stock seems bright, fatiguing, spiky, sharp. Yet boring.... My alarm clock has higher resolution than these.

With that said... I guess they are keepers. And I still need something I can walk around with and hike and work with.

Sound is most definitely important as I see a certain weird position finally directs the sound down my pipes. But can't be maintsned while walking.

These have 0 hrs burn in which I'm sure matters but i cant see it fix its sonic shortcomings. I came in this not expecting much, especially at least low prices. I found myself far more dissatisfied and disappointed than I thought it'd sound.
There is no reason not to wear iems even 30 $ cheap ones that schiit on these, unless you need nonisolation and have other reasons you can't be plugged up.
I'm hoping the iPod 7th gen classic I have coming on the way would be able to allow me to eq this as violently as I need just to make the listenable...
Just flipped buds with the ears and they do fit better this way. Wearing the red color line to my left ear. Better...
Did it as I wrote this... Lol


Anyways. Gonna burn them for 200 and see what's up. Keepers regarless because I can't see others being drastically different.

But, this way, you can have open back in ears... How cool is that!


----------



## rprodrigues (Feb 25, 2021)

fonkepala said:


> Grats on the LBBs! I just finished auditioning mine a few days ago. Still ambivalent about recommending it wholeheartedly as I had tremendous fit issues. Might be good for someone with smaller ear anatomies. All the time it played nice & stayed in my ears, I could tell that it had good SQ. Surprised by the amount & quality of the bass. I'd be interested to know your thoughts as well.



Have you managed to get rid of the fit issues with the LBBs?

If so, would you rec them?


----------



## jestercow

FAAEAL Datura Pros came in today, my first non-MX500 shelled earbud. I would rate them at 10/10 for build quality, the cable is lovely, and I love the weight and size of the buds themselves. However, the mids have some weird asymmetry right around the vocal range causing female singers to be louder than male singers, which really messes with my head. Between this hump/scoop and the slightly rolled-off treble and bass I will be returning these. I do not like to mess around with EQ; I tend to switch headphones/buds frequently. Not to mention that there are enough transducers out there that if I don't like the tuning of one I would prefer to find something else that suits me in stock form. 

Is anyone who has heard both the Datura Pros and the K's LB able to do a quick comparison?


----------



## 40760

Found a good price for the K's LBBS and ordered a set too...


----------



## InstantSilence

What tips do you guys recommend to bring the upper mids and treble down quite well?


----------



## baskingshark

InstantSilence said:


> What tips do you guys recommend to bring the upper mids and treble down quite well?



If u are referring to earbuds, then try full foams, they tend to tame this area for me, though perhaps at the expense of some detail loss.

If you are referring to IEMs, try foam tips or silicone tips with narrow bore (the narrow bore ones boost the bass, so the ears take the entire frequency spectrum as a whole and will perceive the treble to be less too).


The upper mids/treble can also be tamed by:
1) EQ
2) using warm sources
3) playing at softer volumes -> fletcher munson curve. Sound is perceived to be more U shaped at low volumes but more V shaped at higher volumes.


----------



## InstantSilence

Am I wearing the em5 wrong? 
I feel like they need to be deeper for a much better sound, but they just don't fit in deeper. They don't direct the sound towards the ear canal. 

Only way is this weird way as shown in this photo.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Feb 26, 2021)

InstantSilence said:


> Just some impressions of the fiio em5.
> My first earbud, ever.
> I enjoy the fast easy one and off feeling of an earbud and that it is also have a thr open back effect at work and hiking ect...
> 
> ...


IEM *≠ *Earbud

Fit, fit, and fit! As mentioned countless times in this here thread it really is all about "the fit" most times when it comes to earbuds... "fit is everything". It truly needs to be perfect (proper fit) for the bass to come out and play and for the midrange to shine. Did you try different foam types and thicknesses? Many have had luck with double foaming (using thin types) or a donut foam on top of a full foam. Earbuds can be a tad frustrating (disappointing) until the fit is figured out. Also, shell type and size play a huge part and why some people prefer certain type shells over others.

Though earbuds are likened to full-size open-back headphones, and rightly so as it is an easy way to describe the signature type, they are in fact not full-sized headphones which then brings one to comparing apples to oranges.

As with any headphone type (on-ear, over-ear, open-back, closed-back, IEM, and earbud) it will take more than a week (sometimes two) for your ears and brain to adjust going from one type to the other. It is way too early to start equalizing and adding DSPs as you are only confounding the situation at the moment. Like setting up speakers they advise a full week or two of physical repositioning and other physical room adjustments before equalizing should come into play.

So I think it would be best to hold off on your critical findings until you have allowed for this adjustment period to happen. And lose the full-size headphone expectation and I think you will be truly surprised as earbuds can and do offer something special and unique (*more on this here*).


----------



## rkw

InstantSilence said:


> Am I wearing the em5 wrong?
> I feel like they need to be deeper for a much better sound, but they just don't fit in deeper. They don't direct the sound towards the ear canal.


This is how an EM5 will typically fit (and similar for earbuds in general). Sound and fit is very different from an IEM inserted into the ear canal. Earbuds fit loosely outside the ear canal and do not point directly into it. Listening experience is more like an open back full size headphone rather than the very closed-in, controlled sound of an IEM.


----------



## chichaphile

Can anyone recommend for me neutral to bright earbuds? 💖 thx


----------



## baskingshark

chichaphile said:


> Can anyone recommend for me neutral to bright earbuds? 💖 thx



BK2. Can be about $20 USD during sales. And it has detachable cable at this price.


----------



## chichaphile

baskingshark said:


> BK2. Can be about $20 USD during sales. And it has detachable cable at this price.


Thank you 💖


----------



## WoodyLuvr

InstantSilence said:


> What tips do you guys recommend to bring the upper mids and treble down quite well?


Search this thread for "foam" and you'll find a lot of awesome suggestions from over the years. There are many different approaches.


----------



## InstantSilence

WoodyLuvr said:


> Search this thread for "foam" and you'll find a lot of awesome suggestions from over the years. There are many different approaches.


Any way to get the sound slightly more guided into the ear canal? 
Not looking to close the ear canal off with it, I still need the open, earbud experience, but I feel like whatever I do they don't guide the sound slightly towards my ears. 
When I just even lightly rest my fingers on the buds the sound instantly gets much better, and that doesn't mean I'm pushing them hard at all or blocking my ear canal with it. 
Just looking maybe there are tips that help guide the sound some... Idk.


----------



## 40760

InstantSilence said:


> Any way to get the sound slightly more guided into the ear canal?
> Not looking to close the ear canal off with it, I still need the open, earbud experience, but I feel like whatever I do they don't guide the sound slightly towards my ears.
> When I just even lightly rest my fingers on the buds the sound instantly gets much better, and that doesn't mean I'm pushing them hard at all or blocking my ear canal with it.
> Just looking maybe there are tips that help guide the sound some... Idk.



Judging from your description and how you wear them, I think earbuds with a shorter stem might work better for you. Something like the Bell or PK2 shells with lighter cable should benefit your case. Can you still return the EM5?


----------



## InstantSilence

palestofwhite said:


> Judging from your description and how you wear them, I think earbuds with a shorter stem might work better for you. Something like the Bell or PK2 shells with lighter cable should benefit your case. Can you still return the EM5?


Yes, which bell and pk2? Idk any of those?


----------



## wskl

InstantSilence said:


> Yes, which bell and pk2? Idk any of those?



I wonder if the airpod style earphones would be more suited for you? 

I don't know which are the recommended ones though as they get very little attention in this thread.


----------



## 40760

InstantSilence said:


> Yes, which bell and pk2? Idk any of those?



You can search for the K's Earphone for their Bell series or Yuin for PK earbuds. The PK shells are more common and other brands (e.g. Willsound) also adopt them.


----------



## wskl

InstantSilence said:


> Any way to get the sound slightly more guided into the ear canal?
> Not looking to close the ear canal off with it, I still need the open, earbud experience, but I feel like whatever I do they don't guide the sound slightly towards my ears.
> When I just even lightly rest my fingers on the buds the sound instantly gets much better, and that doesn't mean I'm pushing them hard at all or blocking my ear canal with it.
> Just looking maybe there are tips that help guide the sound some... Idk.



I just remembered someone who wears his earbuds with the cable over the ear and he positions the driver to point towards the ear canal.

Check the photos in this post, maybe it will work for you.


----------



## FranQL (Feb 26, 2021)

@InstantSilence ,

I think that all people perceive in the first contact what you have so viscerally described.

But ... if I'm looking for buds, it's for some reason:

- Open headphones, I am not able to carry them, I find it uncomfortable, no matter how good it sounds, it is not worth carrying that hulk. Plus the annoying sound leaks audible to whoever is around.

- IEM, great, resolution, separation, very competent low budgets (but in buds too) ... but have them in the ear for so long? I always want to be isolated from the environment? The buds are an excellent alternative, it is wonderful to be at home and listen if they knock on the door, and for me, eye, for me they improve the stage, they are much wider and also less tiring and the sound is not inside your head The laterality is very well defined and I also do not notice something strange embedded in my ear.

- Buds, but you are here because you are looking for buds, that is, you are not looking for a fit like iem or a hulk above the head, what you cannot expect is the best of iem and a full head headset all together and also cheap, that does not exist, it has its pros and cons.

In my case it has been a discovery for the better, despite the initial disappointment, but I never approached it like you.


----------



## cappuchino

FranQL said:


> @InstantSilence ,
> 
> I think that all people perceive in the first contact what you have so viscerally described.
> 
> ...


A compromise I have found is using clip-on headphones. I just reviewed the Shini S-520 and it has been the best addition in my small collection. It's on-ear so it doesn't irritate the ear canal, is big enough to generate enough seal for bass response, and fits securely due to the hooks. And I haven't even talked about the sound quality at 2 USD that makes my other buds useless.

Here's my review for those that are curious: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/shini-s-520.24965/review/25377/


----------



## SiggyFraud

baskingshark said:


> BK2. Can be about $20 USD during sales. And it has detachable cable at this price.





chichaphile said:


> Thank you 💖


I'm afraid they're no longer available, at least on AE. Was looking for a black pair a few weeks back to complement my silver ones, but wasn't able to find a listing.


----------



## rprodrigues

SiggyFraud said:


> I'm afraid they're no longer available, at least on AE. Was looking for a black pair a few weeks back to complement my silver ones, but wasn't able to find a listing.


If it is available in your country, try Shopee.




palestofwhite said:


> Found a good price for the K's LBBS and ordered a set too...



Could you share a link?


----------



## RikudouGoku

@InstantSilence I think it is much better for you to return the EM5 and start by trying some cheaper buds (0-10 usd range) with different shapes so you know what type works/dont for you.

Also, when I first bought some buds, it was the Monk plus/lite and a moondrop nameless. I hated the sound out of them for months and thats because I used iems the same day I tried them. So I advice that when you get buds, that you try them before you listen to other transducers as that can affect what you think about them.


----------



## Nool

jestercow said:


> FAAEAL Datura Pros came in today, my first non-MX500 shelled earbud. I would rate them at 10/10 for build quality, the cable is lovely, and I love the weight and size of the buds themselves. However, the mids have some weird asymmetry right around the vocal range causing female singers to be louder than male singers, which really messes with my head. Between this hump/scoop and the slightly rolled-off treble and bass I will be returning these. I do not like to mess around with EQ; I tend to switch headphones/buds frequently. Not to mention that there are enough transducers out there that if I don't like the tuning of one I would prefer to find something else that suits me in stock form.
> 
> Is anyone who has heard both the Datura Pros and the K's LB able to do a quick comparison?


I think you need to use eq with buds, probably none of them out there have "perfect" tuning like you can find in some IEMs. Just get whatever is closest to the signature you want, then EQ it to your preferences. No other way around it.

There are plenty of frequency responses posted by Sam L in this thread you can reference.


----------



## jestercow

Nool said:


> I think you need to use eq with buds, probably none of them out there have "perfect" tuning like you can find in some IEMs. Just get whatever is closest to the signature you want, then EQ it to your preferences. No other way around it.
> 
> There are plenty of frequency responses posted by Sam L in this thread you can reference.


I really like my FAAEAL Iris CE, without the need for EQ. I use these with my iPhone (plenty enough of headphones for use at home) and like I said just really don’t like to mess around with EQ on-the-go. I can't use IEMs due to physical discomfort so I don't have much for comparison aside from other earbuds. With the thousands of earbuds available, there should be plenty enough that sound right to my ears without EQ anyway - I just need to find the right ones


----------



## furyossa

jestercow said:


> I really like my FAAEAL Iris CE, without the need for EQ. I use these with my iPhone (plenty enough of headphones for use at home) and like I said just really don’t like to mess around with EQ on-the-go. I can't use IEMs due to physical discomfort so I don't have much for comparison aside from other earbuds. With the thousands of earbuds available, there should be plenty enough that sound right to my ears without EQ anyway - I just need to find the right ones


Most earphones have a pretty good stock sound in the range $20-$40, but there is an exception like DaturaPro.
Because stock tuning is poor, EQ i.e. correction file need to be used as a fix.
So you don't have to adjust EQ manually, just load the file and done.  That's the only way you can see the real potential of the aluminum coated driver.
Build quality is the top-notch, no one has complained about it so far, and only that justifies the price.


----------



## Nool

jestercow said:


> I really like my FAAEAL Iris CE, without the need for EQ. I use these with my iPhone (plenty enough of headphones for use at home) and like I said just really don’t like to mess around with EQ on-the-go. I can't use IEMs due to physical discomfort so I don't have much for comparison aside from other earbuds. With the thousands of earbuds available, there should be plenty enough that sound right to my ears without EQ anyway - I just need to find the right ones


The Iris CE did have a good neutral-bright tuning, just not very good resolution, sound was "muffled". You should try the $8 NSC Clear buds, I posted a link to it earlier. Similar neutral tuning but with better resolution, though it sounds more thin than I'd like. Great for $8. Though BK2 is still the best neutral buds I've heard, definitely worth the ~$25 if you want a clean neutral, no-warmth sound.


----------



## jestercow

Nool said:


> The Iris CE did have a good neutral-bright tuning, just not very good resolution, sound was "muffled". You should try the $8 NSC Clear buds, I posted a link to it earlier. Similar neutral tuning but with better resolution, though it sounds more thin than I'd like. Great for $8. Though BK2 is still the best neutral buds I've heard, definitely worth the ~$25 if you want a clean neutral, no-warmth sound.


I've seen folks talk about that, just seems like it's getting hard to find. I'll hunt one down, thanks for the recommendation


----------



## 40760

rprodrigues said:


> If it is available in your country, try Shopee.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Search for "ksearphone" on Shopee and look for the one sold by "Jietu".


----------



## rprodrigues

palestofwhite said:


> Search for "ksearphone" on Shopee and look for the one sold by "Jietu".



Thank you.

I've found them sold by 'xingxing'...


----------



## XP_98 (Feb 26, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> The tonality is similar between the 2 earbuds, but EBX 21 kills the ME80 in technicalities by a lot. And of course it is detachable, unlike the ME80. Does that explain a more than 10 times price differential? Probably not, but as usual in this audio hobby, there's huge diminishing returns the higher one goes up the ladder.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


After reading all this, I dug out my Me80 that I had not listenedto since a while... I was surprised as I had forgotten how good they sound and also how good they fit into my ears.
What totl buds have the same shape / form factor ?
And the same / approaching sound tuning ?


----------



## povidlo

Fresh from China this week: some fixed-cable goodness!

Seriously though, having non-datachable cables is disappointing.

Rosemary-H180-Chaconne


----------



## RikudouGoku

povidlo said:


> Fresh from China this week: some fixed-cable goodness!
> 
> Seriously though, having non-datachable cables is disappointing.
> 
> Rosemary-H180-Chaconne


Chaconne comparison with yincrow X6 and viridis pretty please.


----------



## povidlo

RikudouGoku said:


> Chaconne comparison with yincrow X6 and viridis pretty please.


Will do, mate.

It'll be a bit of a wait since Moondrop is instructing to burn in for 100hrs. I am a believer, personally.


----------



## vygas

povidlo said:


> Fresh from China this week: some fixed-cable goodness!
> 
> Seriously though, having non-datachable cables is disappointing.
> 
> Rosemary-H180-Chaconne


Didn't know that FAAEAL changed the headphone jack for nearly all of their models, hope you enjoy your pair though!


----------



## furyossa

vygas said:


> Didn't know that FAAEAL changed the headphone jack for nearly all of their models, hope you enjoy your pair though!


Even if the model is cheap FAAEAL tries to put cables of average quality which is really nice.


----------



## cappuchino (Feb 26, 2021)

Continuing the JCALLY Earbud Saga, we have the EP09. Look at the diaphragm and shell material. Wonder if it's real for 28 USD. Link


----------



## furyossa

sub30 said:


> Continuing the JCALLY Earbud Saga, we have the EP09. Look at the diaphragm and cavity. Wonder if it's real for 28 USD. Link


This one can be the winner.


----------



## cappuchino

furyossa said:


> This one can be the winner.


There's already a few reviews in Chinese with a simple Google search.


----------



## InstantSilence

I can't find any type of earbud (tips/covers/foamies /ect) that sort of guides the sound more towards the eardrum. 
Don't want to get any apple pods or anything like that. 
The non fatiguing sound of the EM5 is awesome, but only if I push on them a little bit for them to aim towards my ear canal. 
Wearing them around the ear isn't working well

I'd figure someone made some unique eartip for earbuds?


----------



## jestercow

InstantSilence said:


> I can't find any type of earbud (tips/covers/foamies /ect) that sort of guides the sound more towards the eardrum.
> Don't want to get any apple pods or anything like that.
> The non fatiguing sound of the EM5 is awesome, but only if I push on them a little bit for them to aim towards my ear canal.
> Wearing them around the ear isn't working well
> ...


The problem with that is unless the earbud is specifically designed that way, the guide would dramatically alter the sound of the earbud - likely for the worse. Especially with a bud that has had the amount of time and effort into the sound that the EM5 has, even if you found something like that it would absolutely have a detrimental effect on the sound signature you like so much.


----------



## slex

furyossa said:


> This one can be the winner.


Have you heard any DIY buds with BE coated? BE and Titanium shell is Lethal combination?☺️


----------



## InstantSilence

jestercow said:


> The problem with that is unless the earbud is specifically designed that way, the guide would dramatically alter the sound of the earbud - likely for the worse. Especially with a bud that has had the amount of time and effort into the sound that the EM5 has, even if you found something like that it would absolutely have a detrimental effect on the sound signature you like so much.


Understood. 
Fair enough, I guess I have to violently EQ this thing so that it's not so fatiguing (I find it 0 fatiguing once it's a decent fit.) but since I can't get that, I guess eq it is. 
Thanks.


----------



## dissociativity

InstantSilence said:


> I can't find any type of earbud (tips/covers/foamies /ect) that sort of guides the sound more towards the eardrum.
> Don't want to get any apple pods or anything like that.
> The non fatiguing sound of the EM5 is awesome, but only if I push on them a little bit for them to aim towards my ear canal.
> Wearing them around the ear isn't working well
> ...


the best seal you'll get is wearing them over ear, and I imagine the silicone covers that make earbuds into semi-in ears would ruin the sound.
You aren't getting any real substantial subbass from earbuds, at least as a general rule I'm sorry to say.
There's no magic fix, they don't have an iem seal, it's the nature of the best.

Fancy custom driver setups like maybe with the rose maria/maria 2 can potentially resolve this but I doubt any single DD stuff can (you need a yincrow x6 style driver for bass and a second driver for mids and treble no doubt)


----------



## baskingshark

InstantSilence said:


> I can't find any type of earbud (tips/covers/foamies /ect) that sort of guides the sound more towards the eardrum.
> Don't want to get any apple pods or anything like that.
> The non fatiguing sound of the EM5 is awesome, but only if I push on them a little bit for them to aim towards my ear canal.
> Wearing them around the ear isn't working well
> ...



For some earbuds, I have to angle them so the stem is facing 45 degrees anteriorly (instead of pointing downwards) to get a good fit.
For others, I have to thicken the earbud fit by adding a second layer of foam/donut foams so it fills the ear better. If u need to press the earbud into the ear to get better sound, then perhaps u can benefit from a second layer of foam.

For others that can be worn over ear, eg SMABAT series, you can also try to see if that increases the fit options for you. I've seen some earbud hook thingies too, to hook and guide the earbud onto the ear, u can perhaps try it too.

If all else fails, then perhaps the shape of the earbud if wrong for your ear anatomy, then best to move on and get another design.


----------



## dissociativity (Feb 26, 2021)

I have no doubt the Rose Maria and Rose Maria 2 have great extension, a 20mm driver has to mean something, given the ksc75 or the porta pros worn over-ear on hooks (no real seal, 30mm dd) give solid enough bass.
smabat st-10s seems to solve earbud's common bass issues with the resonance chamber, engineering an earbud competitive with the IEM market in sound is difficult, IEMs you can sorta throw things together and not really innovate and people will eventually enjoy how your stuff is tuned in at least one model, throw things at the wall, see what sticks.

Earbud's main issue to me is technology rather than the quality of the DDs we have.


----------



## InstantSilence

dissociativity said:


> the best seal you'll get is wearing them over ear, and I imagine the silicone covers that make earbuds into semi-in ears would ruin the sound.
> You aren't getting any real substantial subbass from earbuds, at least as a general rule I'm sorry to say.
> There's no magic fix, they don't have an iem seal, it's the nature of the best.
> 
> Fancy custom driver setups like maybe with the rose maria/maria 2 can potentially resolve this but I doubt any single DD stuff can (you need a yincrow x6 style driver for bass and a second driver for mids and treble no doubt)


Love the sound. I guess it's the fit as the issue., when using it over ear they *aim* well, into th ear canal and no longer is it fatiguing. 
But they loose position very easily. 

It is what it is. I'll just heavily darken them to oblivion


----------



## dissociativity

InstantSilence said:


> Love the sound. I guess it's the fit as the issue., when using it over ear they *aim* well, into th ear canal and no longer is it fatiguing.
> But they loose position very easily.
> 
> It is what it is. I'll just heavily darken them to oblivion


you probably have a single peak your brain/ears dislikes, rather than the entire treble region.


----------



## InstantSilence

baskingshark said:


> For some earbuds, I have to angle them so the stem is facing 45 degrees anteriorly (instead of pointing downwards) to get a good fit.
> For others, I have to thicken the earbud fit by adding a second layer of foam/donut foams so it fills the ear better. If u need to press the earbud into the ear to get better sound, then perhaps u can benefit from a second layer of foam.
> 
> For others that can be worn over ear, eg SMABAT series, you can also try to see if that increases the fit options for you. I've seen some earbud hook thingies too, to hook and guide the earbud onto the ear, u can perhaps try it too.
> ...


OK will try what you say with the angle. 
What tips for these as far as size and to tame the mids and highs most, so I can buy and try


----------



## baskingshark

InstantSilence said:


> OK will try what you say with the angle.
> What tips for these as far as size and to tame the mids and highs most, so I can buy and try



Full foams are the best to tame the highs. Just use those provided in the packaging of your EM5.


----------



## assassin10000 (Feb 26, 2021)

InstantSilence said:


> I can't find any type of earbud (tips/covers/foamies /ect) that sort of guides the sound more towards the eardrum.
> Don't want to get any apple pods or anything like that.
> The non fatiguing sound of the EM5 is awesome, but only if I push on them a little bit for them to aim towards my ear canal.
> Wearing them around the ear isn't working well
> ...





baskingshark said:


> For others, I have to thicken the earbud fit by adding a second layer of foam/donut foams so it fills the ear better. If u need to press the earbud into the ear to get better sound, then perhaps u can benefit from a second layer of foam.



^this.

Do a donut over a regular foam to see if that improves fit and seal.


If over ear, try silicone ear hooks on the cable. It may be what is needed to keep them positioned well.


----------



## InstantSilence

assassin10000 said:


> ^this.
> 
> Do a donut over a regular foam to see if that improves fit and seal.
> 
> ...


How do I find ear hooks that work for these things 
As I tried typing in Amazon for example em5 earhooks and came up short. 
Also anyway to get a compilation of ear foams for earbuds, just to try different thicmnesses ect? 

Amazing just give some iem tips anytime I type the word *earbud* in.


----------



## 40760 (Feb 26, 2021)

InstantSilence said:


> How do I find ear hooks that work for these things
> As I tried typing in Amazon for example em5 earhooks and came up short.
> Also anyway to get a compilation of ear foams for earbuds, just to try different thicmnesses ect?
> 
> Amazing just give some iem tips anytime I type the word *earbud* in.



Due to the shape of the EM5's shells and vent positioning, I'm almost certain those rubber hooks will not work. Trust me I used to own the EM5, though I did not offload them due to fit issues.

The problem with the EM5 is that the part that houses the driver is designed straight instead of curving with the driver, hence they do not sit as well as say an MX500 shell. If you cannot get a good fit with the stem and cable coming down as with the regular way of wearing, I cannot see how there is anything there to keep it in place.


----------



## rprodrigues

InstantSilence said:


> How do I find ear hooks that work for these things
> As I tried typing in Amazon for example em5 earhooks and came up short.
> Also anyway to get a compilation of ear foams for earbuds, just to try different thicmnesses ect?
> 
> Amazing just give some iem tips anytime I type the word *earbud* in.



Take a look at aliexpress.com/item/32851430438.html


----------



## InstantSilence

palestofwhite said:


> Due to the shape of the EM5's shells and vent positioning, I'm almost certain those rubber hooks will not work. Trust me I used to own the EM5, though I did not offload them due to fit issues.
> 
> The problem with the EM5 is that the part that houses the driver is designed straight instead of curving with the driver, hence they do not sit as well as say an MX500 shell. If you cannot get a good fit with the stem and cable coming down as with the regular way of wearing, I cannot see how there is anything there to keep it in place.


I'm new to earbuds, so idk what styles or types there are, I've been doing some reading but stuff trying to grasp it. 



Yes I think they are different as far as body goes because the em5 has the port bass thing. And seem longer than these mx500s

But the actual head, where the speaker is, and angle.. Seems about the same to me? 

I must me missing the point or something


----------



## 40760 (Feb 26, 2021)

InstantSilence said:


> Yes I think they are different as far as body goes because the em5 has the port bass thing. And seem longer than these mx500s
> 
> But the actual head, where the speaker is, and angle.. Seems about the same to me?


If you take the MX500 and compare it side by side, you will see that the part of the shell where it "lodges" into your ears (where the driver cover meets the driver shell), the EM5 one is much straighter than the more curved one of the MX500 shell.

It is very obvious when you compare the process of putting foam covers on both of them and it takes more effort with the EM5 as there is less curve to "catch" the edges of the foam.

Also, there is a small vent along the bottom edge of the shell which I'm certain will be blocked if you put on any silicone ear hooks (e.g. the ones that come with VE EX Pack).


----------



## rkw

InstantSilence said:


> Also anyway to get a compilation of ear foams for earbuds, just to try different thicmnesses ect?


Different foam won't change treble to the extent you are seeking, although thicker can form a tighter seal that tilts the balance more towards mid/bass. Have you tried a second layer of foam as others have suggested?

The EM5 does have a bright treble and might not be the best choice for you.


----------



## assassin10000 (Feb 26, 2021)

InstantSilence said:


> How do I find ear hooks that work for these things
> As I tried typing in Amazon for example em5 earhooks and came up short.
> Also anyway to get a compilation of ear foams for earbuds, just to try different thicmnesses ect?
> 
> Amazing just give some iem tips anytime I type the word *earbud* in.



Reload my post. The pictures weren't loading properly.


I cut about 4-6mm of the hook, at the 'top' end where it curves over the ear to make room for the earbud stem.


As far as foams, I have a post somewhere in this thread about a few different ones.


----------



## InstantSilence

assassin10000 said:


> Reload my post. The pictures weren't loading properly.
> 
> 
> I cut about 4-6mm of the hook, at the 'top' end where it curves over the ear to make room for the earbud stem.
> ...


Awesome, ordered, will try. 
What donut are you talking of? I only have black foams, any donut stuff on Amazon? I'll try it all


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 24, 2022)

InstantSilence said:


> I'm new to earbuds, so idk what styles or types there are, I've been doing some reading but stuff trying to grasp it.
> 
> Yes I think they are different as far as body goes because the em5 has the port bass thing. And seem longer than these mx500s
> 
> ...


For Earbud Shell Types start *here*

Do note that the EM5 is considered an "*Other Variant*" Shell Type and has a rather unique shape/size to it. The problem sometimes with "Other Variant" shell types is that their physical design have not been "tested by time" and may only fit certain ear types. More so than the traditional MX and PK shell types that are well known and been around for a long time though there are some variants of both the MX and PK that cause some fitting issues as well. Bell types are all over the board in regards to size so they can prove troublesome for some people in regards to fit.



InstantSilence said:


> Also anyway to get a compilation of ear foams for earbuds, just to try different thicmnesses ect?


For earbud* foams *aka_ *cushions / covers / pads*_ there are many posts in this thread discussing this.

I have tried nearly everything under the moon when it comes to earbud foams (covers/pads) the past two years. Besides foam density aka thickness (extra-thin, thin, medium, thick, extra thick); gauge (small vs large hole); style (full vs. donut); and color (a plethora of available colors... no exaggeration here) I rarely have come across any real major difference between foam brands (YMMV). Notably, my best foams have been the cheapest ones that I have bought off AliExpress in bulk... go figure! Yes, there have been a few (a very few) that were poorly made but the ultra-common consistency in materials used has led me to believe that only a handful of factories are actually manufacturing them.

Honestly though for me there has not been that much of a sonic and/or material difference between foam brands (though please note that I have poor hearing from a combination of malarial fever and exposure to bomb blasts/gun-fire/helicopters). With that said, I have found that the material quality of Hiegi is ever so slightly better. Here in the tropics the Hiegi foams tend to rip less easily as I have found them to be less susceptible to dry rot (from being in air conditioned environments). I really do believe that there may be only 2-3 factories producing the foam material (of very limited difference) used by only a handful of factories manufacturing earbud foams and covers.

*Trig Rain on aliExpress* (as recommended by so many) have been good with only a few duds here and there. They are very well respected and "trusted".

There are many different combinations of foams that you can experiment with to include double foams (doubling up two thin foams) or using a full foam with a donut on top.

There are also *silicon covers* that come in full, donut, and ring versions as well. *You might consider experimenting with a silicon rubber ring as that should not affect the sound but may provide a securer fit for you in regards to the unique shape and design of the EM5.*



 



*Pros:* _Silicon covers (full/donut/ring) may provide a securer fit in your ear and/or better secure foam covers on slippery metal type shelled earbuds._

*Cons: *_Full silicon covers like these do tend to muffle/veil the sound badly; although typically hypoallergenic silicon can be quite sweaty/slimy feeling in tropical environments so I personally completely avoid using silicon rings or donuts in most cases._


----------



## WoodyLuvr

InstantSilence said:


> Awesome, ordered, will try.
> What donut are you talking of? I only have black foams, any donut stuff on Amazon? I'll try it all


You'll need to be brave and order from AliExpress as many of us have and do. There are a number of highly recommended stores that can be trusted; are extremely customer service oriented; and with shipping that is actually much quicker than you might believe even during these Covid-19 times.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

rkw said:


> Different foam won't change treble to the extent you are seeking, although thicker can form a tighter seal that tilts the balance more towards mid/bass. Have you tried a second layer of foam as others have suggested?
> 
> The EM5 does have a bright treble and might not be the best choice for you.


Yes indeed, very much so! *@InstantSilence *was fairly warned about this (the EM5 being bright and even harsh in the treble to some ears) but like the majority of us he had to learn the hard way


----------



## InstantSilence

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes indeed, very much so! *@InstantSilence *was fairly warned about this (the EM5 being bright and even harsh in the treble to some ears) but like the majority of us he had to learn the hard way


Yessir! 

I do however not find them harsh, peaky or sibilant at all, and a decent bass too, but all of that, only when it's actually aiming towards my ear nacal (so far only possible via pushing on them slightly. 

But maybe the hooks and wearing them behind the ear with dual tips might work


----------



## wskl

InstantSilence said:


> Awesome, ordered, will try.
> What donut are you talking of? I only have black foams, any donut stuff on Amazon? I'll try it all



Donut foams have a hole in the middle
https://www.amazon.com/HieGi-Middle-Cushions-Earphones-Earbuds/dp/B011AXO90C/


----------



## XP_98

XP_98 said:


> After reading all this, I dug out my Me80 that I had not listenedto since a while... I was surprised as I had forgotten how good they sound and also how good they fit into my ears.
> What totl buds have the same shape / form factor ?
> And the same / approaching sound tuning ?


Anyone has an idea ?


----------



## 40760

EM5 comes with a box of donut foams.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

wskl said:


> Donut foams have a hole in the middle
> https://www.amazon.com/HieGi-Middle-Cushions-Earphones-Earbuds/dp/B011AXO90C/


I highly recommend this brand. Never had a dud and they seem to fend off dry rot well. Probably a slightly different material used (or maybe finishing spray applied) than all the other brands I have experienced.


----------



## povidlo

furyossa said:


> Even if the model is cheap FAAEAL tries to put cables of average quality which is really nice.


I was going for Rosemary 2.5mm version initially which is supposed to have improved bal cable- but reviews said that cable is stiff.

On the regular version I got, cable is soft and braided up to Y-split. Splitter is securely built and jack has nice metal plating.


----------



## jestercow

Does hiegi make any colors other than black? I like the VE EX pack due to the inclusion of red/blue foams so I can differentiate between right and left at a glance. If they only come in black that’s fine, I’ll still likely grab a set to try but thought it was worth an ask


----------



## povidlo

jestercow said:


> Does hiegi make any colors other than black? I like the VE EX pack due to the inclusion of red/blue foams so I can differentiate between right and left at a glance. If they only come in black that’s fine, I’ll still likely grab a set to try but thought it was worth an ask


They come in white, too.

https://www.amazon.com/HieGi-Cushions-Earphones-Earbuds-Pairs/dp/B01GV5Z4VC


----------



## chinmie

jestercow said:


> Does hiegi make any colors other than black? I like the VE EX pack due to the inclusion of red/blue foams so I can differentiate between right and left at a glance. If they only come in black that’s fine, I’ll still likely grab a set to try but thought it was worth an ask


 if you have Daiso store near you, you can purchase earbud foams there that are thick like Hiegi's, and usually sold in packs of red, blue, and black.


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> This one can be the winner.


It certainly looks good


----------



## RikudouGoku

Well, rip ME80 I guess. 

They just told me they have stopped production on it and told me to get other buds instead lol.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 27, 2021)

slex said:


> Have you heard any DIY buds with BE coated? BE and Titanium shell is Lethal combination?☺️


Of course, DIY 130 and 600ohm, and I did some test for 130ohm driver with different shells. You can find in my inventory links marked #1, #2 etc.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 27, 2021)

povidlo said:


> I was going for Rosemary 2.5mm version initially which is supposed to have improved bal cable- but reviews said that cable is stiff.
> 
> On the regular version I got, cable is soft and braided up to Y-split. Splitter is securely built and jack has nice metal plating.


You can replace 3.5mm with 2.5mm plug (you still have 4 wires inside cable which is enough for balanced version)


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> It certainly looks good


This shell is much more comfortable than the previous Audio-Technika "like" shell. But they still use a driver with cut low end and 128dB sensitivity. 
They can easily put any chip Ti driver to complement shell material 
Anyway...the build looks good so for this price I think is fine, and later you can always swap the driver with some DIY version, and you will get a good pair of buds 
with nice build


----------



## furyossa (Feb 27, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> I highly recommend this brand. Never had a dud and they seem to fend off dry rot well. Probably a slightly different material used (or maybe finishing spray applied) than all the other brands I have experienced.


I agree. Definitely the best quality foam on the market
Penon Audio link ($3.90)
Also Feng Technology Foams link


----------



## jestercow

RikudouGoku said:


> Well, rip ME80 I guess.
> 
> They just told me they have stopped production on it and told me to get other buds instead lol.


Thank you for your effort, friend. It was definitely worth a try and now we know for sure.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jestercow said:


> Thank you for your effort, friend. It was definitely worth a try and now we know for sure.


Guess we need to find an upgrade or an alternative that's similar to it.


----------



## HombreCangrejo (Feb 27, 2021)

FranQL said:


> It certainly looks good



I need to see enough reviews before even considering it as an option. I bought the EP05, and in my opinion it's not a good buy, even considering the low price. For me, the RY4S Plus is much better. The sound is extremely in your face, and soundstage is much narrower. Face to face, the RY4S could seem as more laid back, but it's only that it has a more spacious presentation, more air between instruments and, globally, a more refined sound, where even the bass is miles ahead, in quantity and quality.

I also gave the EP05 the benefit of 50 hours of burn-in (not particularly a believer but, given that it's free...) and nothing changed, it is what it is.

In the (I hope) near future, I have high expectations in M3 being what M2 Pro finally wasn't.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Well, rip ME80 I guess.
> 
> They just told me they have stopped production on it and told me to get other buds instead lol.


So no positive answer? Probably the main reason is recently released flagship, It's now their primary production.
Ok another time. After all, it is not up to us to interfere in their politics


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> So no positive answer? Probably the main reason is recently released flagship, It's now their primary production.
> Ok another time. After all, it is not up to us to interfere in their politics


yeah sadly.


I guess the timing wasnt that good, with the EBX21.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 27, 2021)

HombreCangrejo said:


> I need to see enough reviews before even considering it as an option. I bought the EP05, and in my opinion it's not a good buy, even considering the low price. For me, the RY4S Plus is much better. The sound is extremely in your face, and soundstage is much narrower. Face to face, the RY4S could seem as more laid back, but it's only that it has a more spacious presentation, more air between instruments and, globally, a more refined sound, where even the bass is miles ahead, in quantity and quality.
> 
> I also gave the EP05 the benefit of 50 hours of burn-in (not particularly a believer but, given that it's free...) and nothing changed, it is what it is.
> 
> In the (I hope) near future, I have high expectations in M3 being what M2 Pro finally wasn't.


The main drawback here is the driver itself. It's not clear to me why it is a problem to replace the driver because it is obvious that they are really trying to make unique shells. We don’t see metal shells every day in cheap models + mmcx option. Also can you notice how well the mmcx housing fits with the shell? Big plus!
I can only say that they are on the right track for now, they're quickly launching new models and I hope they start paying more attention to the driver and tuning


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> yeah sadly.
> 
> 
> I guess the timing wasnt that good, with the EBX21.


Can you explain what you mean by "timing wasnt that good" ?


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Can you explain what you mean by "timing wasnt that good" ?


I mean that they just released the EBX21. So they probably want to focus production/sales on that one rather than an old product thats discontinued (ME80).


----------



## furyossa (Feb 27, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> I mean that they just released the EBX21. So they probably want to focus production/sales on that one rather than an old product thats discontinued (ME80).


Yes that is one of the main reasons. Now is not the time to reincarnate old models.
Perhaps a better option is to continue as they did with previous models, after each flagship model there are two budget versions.
First they released EBX and then ME80 and B40


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Yes that is one of the main reasons. Now is not the time to reincarnate old models.
> Perhaps a better option is to continue as they did with previous models, after each flagship model there are two budget versions.
> First they released EBX and then ME80 and B40


Have they done that strategy all the time?

flagship first, then 2 budget models.

Or was it a coincidence with the EBX-> ME80/B40


----------



## HombreCangrejo

furyossa said:


> The main drawback here is the driver itself. It's not clear to me why it is a problem to replace the driver because it is obvious that they are really trying to make unique shells. We don’t see metal shells every day in cheap models + mmcx option. Also can you notice how well the mmcx housing fits with the shell? Big plus!
> I can only say that they are on the right track for now, they're quickly launching new models and I hope they start paying more attention to the driver and tuning



Yes, the shells are the best part, with difference. They look really gorgeous, no doubt about that, but, as you say, the problem here is the driver, that has serious limitations. Even the timbre is a bit unnatural, but the worst part is how congested the sound is as a whole. That's the reason why I have not pressed "Buy" for one of these beautiful Openheart models. Good looks, great accessory pack, but little evidence about the sound.


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> Yes that is one of the main reasons. Now is not the time to reincarnate old models.
> Perhaps a better option is to continue as they did with previous models, after each flagship model there are two budget versions.
> First they released EBX and then ME80 and B40


there are brands that give continuity to their previous models, especially those that have been successful, but do not have the hyperactivity that nicehck launching models has ...


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Have they done that strategy all the time?
> 
> flagship first, then 2 budget models.
> 
> Or was it a coincidence with the EBX-> ME80/B40


Before EBX that I think they use MX500 and DP100 shell and EBX is their first unique model. Sorry I forget EB2. They release first EBX and EB2 and I think a year later ME80 and B40. So we have 1 flagship and 3 budget models before EBX2K21


----------



## XP_98

XP_98 said:


> After reading all this, I dug out my Me80 that I had not listenedto since a while... I was surprised as I had forgotten how good they sound and also how good they fit into my ears.
> What totl buds have the same shape / form factor ?
> And the same / approaching sound tuning ?


Anyone ?


----------



## furyossa

HombreCangrejo said:


> Yes, the shells are the best part, with difference. They look really gorgeous, no doubt about that, but, as you say, the problem here is the driver, that has serious limitations. Even the timbre is a bit unnatural, but the worst part is how congested the sound is as a whole. That's the reason why I have not pressed "Buy" for one of these beautiful Openheart models. Good looks, great accessory pack, but little evidence about the sound.


Congested sound in many cases occurs due to poor solution of the vent system and the shape of the inside of the shell. See these two posts which shows what is
the bad inner cavity shape.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15608420
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15608655


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> there are brands that give continuity to their previous models, especially those that have been successful, but do not have the hyperactivity that nicehck launching models has ...


Well-known brands do that all the time, but it's not the case with small brands.


----------



## HombreCangrejo (Feb 27, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Congested sound in many cases occurs due to poor solution of the vent system and the shape of the inside of the shell. See these two posts which shows what is
> the bad inner cavity shape.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15608420
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15608655



Thanks! I wasn't considering this and, certainly, I was blocking the holes behind the cover with the foams, but, anyway, the difference, if it exists, is really small in this case. Definitely, the driver is not at the same level that the shell (obviously, I would have preferred the opposite)

Talking about something different, I asked some questions to the Smabat official shop in Ali, about the M2 Pro, that had a great price at the moment, and they answered that the M3 would be more convenient, as it will allow changing the driver without soldering. I share this as I think they don't have any interest in keeping it secret, given they have said it to a random buyer. No need to say that I'm very interested in that solution, that seems as the logical and more user friendly evolution. The icing on the cake would be if they release more driver options.


----------



## baskingshark (Feb 27, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Well, rip ME80 I guess.
> 
> They just told me they have stopped production on it and told me to get other buds instead lol.



Bro, good effort, but told you they probably won't be interested in opening up a new factory floor for us cause we probably didn't even hit a hundred signatures for your petition. They do stuff in batches for economy of scale and I suppose if we don't hit a minimum order that meets their expectations, they would give us short shrift.

Oh wells, just move on then, luckily there's an oasis of other earbuds to be heard.


----------



## Feilong4 (Feb 28, 2021)

I haven't read about earbuds in a long while and I would love for any directions or recommendations!

As for some sort of reference, I like the sound signature like the Hifiman HE-1000v1. Warm, a bit recessed upper midrange though without the piercing treble like on the HE1K. Bump in the bass is A-ok with me though as long as it doesn't creep into the lower midrange too much. I like the treble quantity to be at about where most of the midrange is with no crazy peaks. I'm thinking of using full foams.

Other things:

-Preferably plastic or lightweight earpieces
-Relatively flat-design so that when I lay on my side, it doesn't push into my ear. As a reference, the MX500 shell is fine in terms of thickness.
-Smaller circular piece than MX500 shell possibly. A part of my ear sorta pushes away the earpieces and I lose bass (although I haven't tried many earbuds so I'm not sure if this is just normal)
-<150 USD
-Doesn't matter if cables are non-detachable though it'd be a bonus

Not sure if I'm missing a criteria.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Feb 28, 2021)

Feilong4 said:


> I haven't read about earbuds in a long while and I would love for any directions or recommendations!
> 
> As for some sort of reference, I like the sound signature like the Hifiman HE-1000v1. Warm, a bit recessed upper midrange though without the piercing treble like on the HE1K. Bump in the bass is A-ok with me though as long as it doesn't creep into the lower midrange too much. I like the treble quantity to be at about where most of the midrange is with no crazy peaks. I'm thinking of using full foams.
> 
> ...


Can't go wrong with the low-profile, neutral to slightly warm sounding (has tamed treble), and highly regarded *Venture Electronics (VE) Zen LL (150Ω) aka "Sleeping Bud"*
This earbud's impedance is 150 so some will say it requires "amping" but I am not sure why as the sensitivity is 109 dB/mW and I did not find it difficult at all to drive from a mobile source (smart phone) when I listened to them awhile back at a mobile audiophile meet-up. 






I nearly bought a pair myself but also had heard a pair of 500 ohm Puresounds at the same event and shortly thereafter settled on a pair of 600 ohm Puresounds instead that were simply divine to my ears. The VE Zen LL are on my "to buy" list along with the Yinman 600s.

Other options to consider are the *Edifier H180*, *Qian39*, or *VE Monk Lite*. The *Qian39* are extremely comfortable if I recall correctly but it has been many years since I last listened to a pair.


----------



## Feilong4 (Feb 28, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Can't go wrong with the low-profile, neutral to slightly warm sounding (has tamed treble), and highly regarded *Venture Electronics (VE) Zen LL (150Ω) aka "Sleeping Bud"*
> This earbud's impedance is 150 so some will say it requires "amping" but I am not sure why as the sensitivity is 109 dB/mW and I did not find it difficult at all to drive from a mobile source (smart phone) when I listened to them awhile back at a mobile audiophile meet-up.
> 
> 
> ...


Do you so happen to know how the Zen LL compares to the original Zen or Zen 2.0? I had both a really long time ago and I _think _I preferred the original Zen since it was a bit more lively sounding (though my tastes have changed a lot so idk what I would think of either now). Is the fit better with the Zen LL?

*Edit: Sorry, got another question: Is the Zen LL SL Edition essentially a cosmetic difference with a different cable from the standard if you know?

I'll be using them mostly in bed hooked up to a Topping A90 so powering shouldn't be a problem.

Oh I think I have the Edifier H180 but I have no idea where I put them. Shoot, what a throwback.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Feilong4 said:


> Do you so happen to know how the Zen LL compares to the original Zen or Zen 2.0? I had both a really long time ago and I _think _I preferred the original Zen since it was a bit more lively sounding (though my tastes have changed a lot so idk what I would think of either now). Is the fit better with the Zen LL?
> 
> *Edit: Sorry, got another question: Is the Zen LL SL Edition essentially a cosmetic difference with a different cable from the standard if you know?


The LL are probably the warmest model in the Zen series. No idea on the SL Edition as I never heard them.


----------



## FranQL

HombreCangrejo said:


> Talking about something different, I asked some questions to the Smabat official shop in Ali, about the M2 Pro, that had a great price at the moment, and they answered that the M3 would be more convenient, as it will allow changing the driver without soldering. I share this as I think they don't have any interest in keeping it secret, given they have said it to a random buyer. No need to say that I'm very interested in that solution, that seems as the logical and more user friendly evolution. The icing on the cake would be if they release more driver options.



wow, a great notice, 

Well, I'm very curious to know how easy it will be to change the controller, as well as to know what controllers will be available.


----------



## FranQL

@WoodyLuvr , In the next promotion I will pull the trigger with yinman 600, it is a personal bet.

Zen LL does not quite attract my attention, the way to sell it by venture is not the best either (sleeping buds or multimedia)


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 1, 2022)

*All About Flathead Earbud Cushions*
*by @WoodyLuvr, @assassin10000, @furyossa, and @jogawag *
*Picture Source: Head-Fi Archive Mostly*

Earbud *"cushions" *aka _*"covers"*_ or _*"pads"*_ are used to provide a securer fit and/or to improve the sound signature (e.g. tame the highs or bring up the bass) and fall into two (2) main categories: _*sponge foam*_ and _*silicon rubber*_:


*SPONGE FOAM aka "FOAMS" or "FOAMIES"*

*Foam Density aka Thickness*​Sponge foam density/thickness is generally categorized into four (4) sub-types:​​*Ultra Thin*​

 

_Ultra Thins by Venture Electronics on left_​​*Thin*​

​*Medium aka Standard*​

​*Thick*​

_Hiegi Black Thick Foam Cushions_​​​*Foam Hole Gauge*​Sponge foam material gauge can also be furthered categorized into two (2) sub-types:​​*Small Hole aka Normal Gauge*​

​*Large Hole - Large Gauge*​

 

_Trig Rain Ultra Thin Large Gauge Foam Cushions left and right_​​​*Style or Type*​Sponge foam cushions are categorized into two (2) styles/types:​​*Full*​

​*Donut (Small and Large)*​

 

 

 


​*Color*​Literally a *p**lethor**a* of available colors...​




*SILICON RUBBER*
​*Style or Type*​Silicon rubber covers are simply categorized into the following three (3) main types:​​*Full*​

 

​*Ring*​Typically coming in clear, gray, white, and/or black colors​​

 


*Hook*​Typically coming in clear, gray, white, and/or black colors with a hook to firmly secure the earbud into the ear​​



*EARBUD CUSION COMBINATIONS*

The following are some of the more popular *cushion combinations & alterations* that earbud users utilize to help improve fit and sound signature.​​The first example is double foam (donut foam on top of full foam), which *@furyossa *and *@jogawag* cleverly refer to as "cold weather" mode. ​​

 

 

​

 

 



*RECOMMENDED EARBUD CUSHION BRANDS*

*Hiegi @ Penon Audio*​*Trig Rain on aliExpress*​

*Open to any/all corrections or suggestions and of course any cool pics you may have!  *


----------



## FranQL

foams was evaluating these:

https://a.aliexpress.com/_uJArZb

https://a.aliexpress.com/_vsWU8H

https://a.aliexpress.com/_vcvQ5r


----------



## cqtek (Feb 28, 2021)

It seems that the store where I bought the *Thin *foams disappeared. But I have found the same product in other stores, for example:

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/4001197803258.html

By searching for "Black Sponge Earbud" other stores can be found.


----------



## pfropfen

Hey all,
Is there any consensus about the Openheart OH860s (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001180479742.html) ? I recently ordered them as my first chi-fi earbuds after not finding much about the brand online except that some people seemed to like them. Of course only afterwards did I find a thread on this site where someone showed that some other model from this brand is apparently just generic parts glued together with cool product images attatched. 
Are they legit, or did I get boofed?


----------



## cappuchino

Can someone talk me out of buying the Datura-X for 7 USD? 

I've been reading extreme reviews on them (really good and downright trash). But I just saw the package with lots of foams, case, and the build...

I don't know if I really need them...


----------



## baskingshark

sub30 said:


> Can someone talk me out of buying the Datura-X for 7 USD?
> 
> I've been reading extreme reviews on them (really good and downright trash). But I just saw the package with lots of foams, case, and the build...
> 
> I don't know if I really need them...



Honestly, the costs of buying multiple budget gear does add up to a midfi gear soon enough. I learnt that the hard way after getting many sidegrades, which I find it hard to sell away now (as the resale value of cheap CHIFI isn't as good as say some more established stuff like Sony or western brands).

But I suppose buying a cheap IEM/earbud is useful to sample the different sound signatures if you are not sure yet. And there's also a case to argue that buying multiple cheap sets can give a pokemon collection (gotta catch them all) to suit different music genres and sonic preferences. But once u know the sound u like, it might behoof you to just upgrade from there to midfi (or even TOTL) and call it a day. Easier said than done though, FOMO is strong and new hypetrains come out on an almost weekly basis in CHIFIland!


----------



## FranQL

baskingshark said:


> But I suppose buying a cheap IEM/earbud is useful to sample the different sound signatures if you are not sure yet. And there's also a case to argue that buying multiple cheap sets can give a pokemon collection (gotta catch them all) to suit different music genres and sonic preferences. But once u know the sound u like, it might behoof you to just upgrade from there to midfi (or even TOTL) and call it a day. Easier said than done though, FOMO is strong and new hypetrains come out on an almost weekly basis in CHIFIland!


Once you get to this point (from knowing what you like or what sounds really good to you) ... you go on to wanting to have a backup ... the ruin never ends, it is a spiral that takes your € or $ ....


----------



## cappuchino (Feb 28, 2021)

FranQL said:


> Once you get to this point (from knowing what you like or what sounds really good to you) ... you go on to wanting to have a backup ... the ruin never ends, it is a spiral that takes your € or $ ....


I've long since made it a motto to never think back on your purchases 😂 Just continue moving forward, no regrets.


That motto doesn't help at all with anything. I don't know why I still believe in that.
-----
-----
But is there anyone active in this thread that still has the Datura-X? How is it?


----------



## FranQL (Feb 28, 2021)

sub30 said:


> I've long since made it a motto to never think back on your purchases 😂 Just continue moving forward, no regrets.
> 
> 
> That motto doesn't help at all with anything. I don't know why I still believe in that.



Once that motto is applied, it usually has a reaction that translates into:

Have you bought something from aliexpress?
of xxx €?
not other headphones right?
But what do you expect to hear that you haven't already heard?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Update regarding the Blur Angel






Another pic of the Blur Stingray





*https://www.instagram.com/blurearbuds_boleh7/*


----------



## Nool

HombreCangrejo said:


> I need to see enough reviews before even considering it as an option. I bought the EP05, and in my opinion it's not a good buy, even considering the low price. For me, the RY4S Plus is much better. The sound is extremely in your face, and soundstage is much narrower. Face to face, the RY4S could seem as more laid back, but it's only that it has a more spacious presentation, more air between instruments and, globally, a more refined sound, where even the bass is miles ahead, in quantity and quality.
> 
> I also gave the EP05 the benefit of 50 hours of burn-in (not particularly a believer but, given that it's free...) and nothing changed, it is what it is.
> 
> In the (I hope) near future, I have high expectations in M3 being what M2 Pro finally wasn't.


Dang, I was planning on checking out the EP05. Is the mmcx cable it comes with any decent? If so I'll probably give it a shot for $14. Kinda interested in their beryllium EP09 but don't really have my hopes up.


----------



## HombreCangrejo

Nool said:


> Dang, I was planning on checking out the EP05. Is the mmcx cable it comes with any decent? If so I'll probably give it a shot for $14. Kinda interested in their beryllium EP09 but don't really have my hopes up.



Ugh! The cable... Let me try to explain with a photo




Do you see how recessed is the connector on the right? That makes impossible to fit it to the shell. Atrocious QC. Fortunately, I always have some spare cables, but this is unacceptable for an average user.


----------



## furyossa

HombreCangrejo said:


> Ugh! The cable... Let me try to explain with a photo
> 
> 
> 
> Do you see how recessed is the connector on the right? That makes impossible to fit it to the shell. Atrocious QC. Fortunately, I always have some spare cables, but this is unacceptable for an average user.


The threads that hold the mmcx to the housing are damaged and this is difficult to repair. You can try with superglue, but that already requires a little more work


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Update regarding the Blur Angel
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This reminds me of VE cappuccino cable


----------



## furyossa

pfropfen said:


> Hey all,
> Is there any consensus about the Openheart OH860s (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001180479742.html) ? I recently ordered them as my first chi-fi earbuds after not finding much about the brand online except that some people seemed to like them. Of course only afterwards did I find a thread on this site where someone showed that some other model from this brand is apparently just generic parts glued together with cool product images attatched.
> Are they legit, or did I get boofed?


Just think of it like you ask someone to build for you a solid pair of buds from DIY parts. I don't see anything wrong here especially for the $20.
If this is your first buds with metal shells and a replacement cable then this is a great model to start with.


----------



## HombreCangrejo

furyossa said:


> The threads that hold the mmcx to the housing are damaged and this is difficult to repair. You can try with superglue, but that already requires a little more work



Well, the problem is that the connector is glued and fixed at that level. Trying to pull it that mm with pliers barely helps a little, because the "best" you can get is a very loose fit. All in all, they have a lot of things to improve if they want to stay in business.


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> Honestly, the costs of buying multiple budget gear does add up to a midfi gear soon enough. I learnt that the hard way after getting many sidegrades, which I find it hard to sell away now (as the resale value of cheap CHIFI isn't as good as say some more established stuff like Sony or western brands).
> 
> But I suppose buying a cheap IEM/earbud is useful to sample the different sound signatures if you are not sure yet. And there's also a case to argue that buying multiple cheap sets can give a pokemon collection (gotta catch them all) to suit different music genres and sonic preferences. But once u know the sound u like, it might behoof you to just upgrade from there to midfi (or even TOTL) and call it a day. Easier said than done though, FOMO is strong and new hypetrains come out on an almost weekly basis in CHIFIland!


This is one of the best answers, everything else is superfluous to comment on.


----------



## Feilong4

I've been going back into the rabbit hole and hypothetically if I wanted to buy a Ksearphone Titanium Bell Onmyoji Bell-Ti, where would the be the best place to buy it from or is it only available on Aliexpress?

And would those match my wants I described here (besides the price)? https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16207493

Just hypothetically of course..


----------



## pfropfen

furyossa said:


> Just think of it like you ask someone to build for you a solid pair of buds from DIY parts. I don't see anything wrong here especially for the $20.
> If this is your first buds with metal shells and a replacement cable then this is a great model to start with.


That's a good perspective I didn't consider, thanks!


----------



## Luis1316

baskingshark said:


> Honestly, the costs of buying multiple budget gear does add up to a midfi gear soon enough. I learnt that the hard way after getting many sidegrades, which I find it hard to sell away now (as the resale value of cheap CHIFI isn't as good as say some more established stuff like Sony or western brands).
> 
> But I suppose buying a cheap IEM/earbud is useful to sample the different sound signatures if you are not sure yet. And there's also a case to argue that buying multiple cheap sets can give a pokemon collection (gotta catch them all) to suit different music genres and sonic preferences. But once u know the sound u like, it might behoof you to just upgrade from there to midfi (or even TOTL) and call it a day. Easier said than done though, FOMO is strong and new hypetrains come out on an almost weekly basis in CHIFIland!


Yeah, I also feel like that, so I guess I'm jumping right into Onmyoji.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 1, 2021)

Feilong4 said:


> I've been going back into the rabbit hole and hypothetically if I wanted to buy a Ksearphone Titanium Bell Onmyoji Bell-Ti, where would the be the best place to buy it from or is it only available on Aliexpress?
> 
> And would those match my wants I described here (besides the price)? https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16207493
> 
> Just hypothetically of course..





Luis1316 said:


> Yeah, I also feel like that, so I guess I'm jumping right into Onmyoji.


A *FYI *for those considering the highly recommended Onmyoji...

*https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15613708*
*https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15614045*

I concur with *@ClieOS *regarding the Bell-Ti 120Ω... it is indeed a rather warm & smooth (relaxing), and fatigue-free (ear-friendly) sounding earbud meant for extended listening. It doesn't have some of that sparkle I get from my Blurs but boy it sure is an easy earbud to listen to and I definitely rank it as my best earbud at the moment and even believe it out plays my old Puresounds in the fatigue-free "listen forever" department. The comfort is unmatched period.

Comparing my Bell-Ti 120Ω with the aluminum shelled Bell-Onmyoji 30Ω one can indeed tell that Ksearphone is gradually perfecting their bell design and improving build quality with experience however it is not a night or day difference and one must take into consideration the difficulties associated with working with titanium vs aluminum.


----------



## feverfive

Just curious if anyone would care to provide a recommendation?  Looking for an earbud to use exclusively for movie/tv show/YouTube vid consumption direct from hp put of my old Macbook Pro.  Definitely sub-$100, but strongly prefer sub-$50, because historically, earbuds & me are a terrible physical fit, so don't want to risk much $$.


----------



## 40760

feverfive said:


> Just curious if anyone would care to provide a recommendation?  Looking for an earbud to use exclusively for movie/tv show/YouTube vid consumption direct from hp put of my old Macbook Pro.  Definitely sub-$100, but strongly prefer sub-$50, because historically, earbuds & me are a terrible physical fit, so don't want to risk much $$.



How about the Yincrow X6?


----------



## 40760

Can anyone remember which of the 2 high impedance earbuds were better? Zen 2.0 or K's 300 Samsara?


----------



## chinmie

palestofwhite said:


> Can anyone remember which of the 2 high impedance earbuds were better? Zen 2.0 or K's 300 Samsara?



Zen 2.0 was a bit of a toss for me: mids and treble are nice and airy with no foams, but the bass is really lacking, while even with with thin VE foams, the sound of the bass would be good, but the mids and treble would be too warm...so EQ is a must for me with the Zen

the Samsara is also warm in signature, but sounded more coherent across the board, so i myself prefer it more than the Zen 2.0


----------



## 40760

chinmie said:


> Zen 2.0 was a bit of a toss for me: mids and treble are nice and airy with no foams, but the bass is really lacking, while even with with thin VE foams, the sound of the bass would be good, but the mids and treble would be too warm...so EQ is a must for me with the Zen
> 
> the Samsara is also warm in signature, but sounded more coherent across the board, so i myself prefer it more than the Zen 2.0



Can you recall which one has better bass? If I have to use with foams, I would assume the Samsara would be better?


----------



## iMongui

I would like to pull the trigger on a very good earbuds, Im thinking on Fiio EM5 but there also million of different brands/models, in the price of more or less 200$, any recommendation or a mandatory buy?


----------



## chinmie (Mar 1, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> Can you recall which one has better bass? If I have to use with foams, I would assume the Samsara would be better?


the Samsara has better bass for me. i used mine with thin foams, but even with thick foams like Hiegi, the bass would not be overwhelming to the other frequency, it would just make the overall sound warmer.


----------



## 40760 (Mar 1, 2021)

chinmie said:


> the Samsara has better bass for me


Thanks, I shall get the Samsara. It seems to be better built too. VE's SPC and red cables for the Zen Series always turns yellow quite quickly after some use.


----------



## JPardo (Mar 2, 2021)

I have a question that may be a rookie but ... I just opened the box of my smabat st10s gold and the cable connectors do not indicate R or L, only one has a red edge and the other transparent.  In the earbuds it does indicate R or L. Can someone who has it or knows tell me which color corresponds to each one? I think that red is right and transparent is left.


----------



## furyossa

JPardo said:


> I have a question that may be a rookie but ... I just opened the box of my smabat st10s gold and the cable connectors do not indicate R or L, only one has a red edge and the other transparent.  In the earbuds it does indicate R or L. Can someone who has it or knows tell me which color corresponds to each one? I think that red is right and transparent is left.


Yup. Red is always right, and blue or green or transparent are left


----------



## JPardo

furyossa said:


> Yup. Red is always right, and blue or green or transparent are left


Thank you very much for your quick reply.


----------



## furyossa

JPardo said:


> Thank you very much for your quick reply.


On some models such as Moondrop buds and DauturaPro we have a small notch that marks the left side


----------



## furyossa

JPardo said:


> I have a question that may be a rookie but ... I just opened the box of my smabat st10s gold and the cable connectors do not indicate R or L, only one has a red edge and the other transparent.  In the earbuds it does indicate R or L. Can someone who has it or knows tell me which color corresponds to each one? I think that red is right and transparent is left.


Also u can use this simple app to checks which side is which


----------



## WoodyLuvr

furyossa said:


> Also u can use this simple app to checks which side is which


This one also has a left and right channel checker as well
https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php


----------



## JPardo

furyossa said:


> On some models such as Moondrop buds and DauturaPro we have a small notch that marks the left side





furyossa said:


> Also u can use this simple app to checks which side is which





WoodyLuvr said:


> This one also has a left and right channel checker as well
> https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php



Thank you very much for the information.  My previous earbuds have always been marked R and L. I will keep this in mind in the future.


----------



## 40760

It is 3.3 sale and I could not help but also ordered a pair of Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis. No more new earbuds for this year.


----------



## rprodrigues

palestofwhite said:


> It is 3.3 sale and I could not help but also ordered a pair of Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis. No more new earbuds for this year.


Where is it? Aliexpress?


----------



## 40760

rprodrigues said:


> Where is it? Aliexpress?


From Shopee this time because of the better prices.


----------



## rprodrigues (Mar 3, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> From Shopee this time because of the better prices.



For sure!

On the Brazilian Shopee, one can order the LBBS at about 60% of the price on Aliexpress. The Viridis may be ordered at about 82% of its price on Ali.


----------



## XP_98

Hello
I search informations about Yincrow rw-2000, praised by some here...  I search a top to middle tier earbud with low impedance to complete the ones I have (and pair it with Hiby R3 pro for ultra portable set).
Excepted Alex Grimm's short one, there is no review that I could find about rw-2000...
How is the fit ?
 I like Yuin and Mx500 shells, the Me80 fit well to my ears, but the Smabat st-10 didn't (too loose).
I wear my VE Sun and Zen SU only with the provided VE hooks, without they don't hold properly.


----------



## 40760

rprodrigues said:


> For sure!
> 
> On the Brazilian Shopee, one can order the LBBS at about 60% of the price on Aliexpress. The Viridis may be ordered at about 82% of its price on Ali.



Yes that is also why I bought both of them from this platform. Anything else I cannot find, like the K's Samsara I bought from AE.


----------



## Penon

Everyone , just post a news here  :

HESSIAN ansata pro earbud






https://penonaudio.com/hessian-ansata-pro.html


----------



## 40760

XP_98 said:


> Hello
> I search informations about Yincrow rw-2000, praised by some here...  I search a top to middle tier earbud with low impedance to complete the ones I have (and pair it with Hiby R3 pro for ultra portable set).
> Excepted Alex Grimm's short one, there is no review that I could find about rw-2000...
> How is the fit ?
> ...



I have a set on the way, but I don't know when I will get them though.

Seeing that MX500 fits you, is there any particular reason why you cannot use the VE Sun without the transparent hooks? Is it because the shells are too heavy?

The RW-2000 looks to be closer in shape to the VE Sun than MX500 though. Although some say they are even closer to the Smabat.


----------



## jogawag

XP_98 said:


> Hello
> I search informations about Yincrow rw-2000, praised by some here...  I search a top to middle tier earbud with low impedance to complete the ones I have (and pair it with Hiby R3 pro for ultra portable set).
> Excepted Alex Grimm's short one, there is no review that I could find about rw-2000...
> How is the fit ?
> ...


The sound of the Yincrow rw-2000 is excellent, as ClieOS selected it as the TOTL, and I have no complaints.
The shape of the shell is similar to the Smabat ST-10, and the shell size is slightly smaller than the ST-10.
If the ST-10 is too loose for you, you may need to use double foam (donut on full foam) for the rw-2000.


----------



## XP_98

palestofwhite said:


> I have a set on the way, but I don't know when I will get them though.
> 
> Seeing that MX500 fits you, is there any particular reason why you cannot use the VE Sun without the transparent hooks? Is it because the shells are too heavy?
> 
> The RW-2000 looks to be closer in shape to the VE Sun than MX500 though. Although some say they are even closer to the Smabat.


I don't find the Sun's shell heavy, but I think the Mx500's "stem or tail" helps to hold this shell in my ears, and Sun's don't have this "stem or tail"...


----------



## XP_98

jogawag said:


> The sound of the Yincrow rw-2000 is excellent, as ClieOS selected it as the TOTL, and I have no complaints.
> The shape of the shell is similar to the Smabat ST-10, and the shell size is slightly smaller than the ST-10.
> If the ST-10 is too loose for you, you may need to use double foam (donut on full foam) for the rw-2000.


The Me80, that are also smaller, fit well (but ST-10 didn't, so I sold them and cannot try the "double foam trick" - although I have a doubt maybe I did, it was a year ago).
How does the fit of rw-2000 compare with Me80, two small shapes ?
P.s. Did ClieOS write a review, didn't see it ?


----------



## jogawag (Mar 4, 2021)

XP_98 said:


> The Me80, that are also smaller, fit well (but ST-10 didn't, so I sold them and cannot try the "double foam trick" - although I have a doubt maybe I did, it was a year ago).
> How does the fit of rw-2000 compare with Me80, two small shapes ?
> P.s. Did ClieOS write a review, didn't see it ?


Sorry, I do not have ME80, so I can not compare them.

Translation of ClieOS's comment of rw-2000:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15968284

ClieOS's original comment of rw-2000:
http://erji.net/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=1908583&pid=33373766
http://erji.net/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=1908583&pid=33380358

https://twitter.com/EarbudsParadise/status/1325975643134160896


----------



## WoodyLuvr

XP_98 said:


> The Me80, that are also smaller, fit well (but ST-10 didn't, so I sold them and cannot try the "double foam trick" - although I have a doubt maybe I did, it was a year ago).
> How does the fit of rw-2000 compare with Me80, two small shapes ?
> P.s. Did ClieOS write a review, didn't see it ?





*https://twitter.com/earbudsparadise*


----------



## XP_98

Thank you both


----------



## 40760

XP_98 said:


> I don't find the Sun's shell heavy, but I think the Mx500's "stem or tail" helps to hold this shell in my ears, and Sun's don't have this "stem or tail"...



I like the shape of the Sun Dice and use them without hooks, but the stainless steel Y-split is quite heavy and can cause some tugging.


----------



## rprodrigues

Penon said:


> Everyone , just post a news here  :
> 
> HESSIAN ansata pro earbud
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/hessian-ansata-pro.html



Same shells as ISN Rambo II.


----------



## 40760

rprodrigues said:


> Same shells as ISN Rambo II.


No wonder they look familiar...


----------



## Danneq

InstantSilence said:


> Just some impressions of the fiio em5.
> My first earbud, ever.
> I enjoy the fast easy one and off feeling of an earbud and that it is also have a thr open back effect at work and hiking ect...
> 
> ...



EM5 might be a bit of an acquired taste. They are somewhat "thin" and bright sounding without being shrill. Pretty good bass for a pair of earbuds and one of the most deep and wide soundstages I've heard in a pair of earbuds (including for example Rose Mojito). There are more full sounding earbuds but I still really like my pair of EM5. It is how I would have wanted Rose Mojito to sound like. (I sold those pretty fast)
I am sort of happy with what I've got and I hardly buy earbuds anymore. Still I bought EM5 and I'm not disappointed. Simphonio Dragon 2+ has got a sound that is not too far off from EM5, with somewhat similar bright highs but less bass and a smaller soundstage. I find the SWD2+ more full sounding, but slightly prefer EM5.

Anyway, if you like EM5 or not depends on your preferences, as they are pretty unique sounding. I could give other recommendations but most of them are older and boutique earbuds, mainly from small DIY earbud makers in Indonesia or from Chinese makers that I bought from Penon or Ali Express. If you are limited to Amazon others might chip in with other suggestions.


----------



## Danneq (Mar 4, 2021)

sub30 said:


> A compromise I have found is using clip-on headphones. I just reviewed the Shini S-520 and it has been the best addition in my small collection. It's on-ear so it doesn't irritate the ear canal, is big enough to generate enough seal for bass response, and fits securely due to the hooks. And I haven't even talked about the sound quality at 2 USD that makes my other buds useless.
> 
> Here's my review for those that are curious: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/shini-s-520.24965/review/25377/



Too bad that there is no market for clip-on headphones anymore. I've got a small collection of clip-ons and all of them are no longer sold:
Audio Technica ATH EM9d
Dunu DN-C60II
JVC HP-AL600-B
Pioneer SE-EX9
Victor HP-AL700
Victor HP-AL1000
Yuin G2A

Yuin G2A is really amazing and could be bought for around $40 before it was discontinued a few years ago. Dunu DN-C60II were also quite good. All of the Japanese ones I've bought in Japan, mainly on Yahoo auction. JVC HP-AL600 was pretty good and was sold in Japanese stores such as Yodobashi until around 5 years ago. Now only lower tier clip-ons are sold in Japan.

I just tried to search for a few of them and it seems like Penon is selling Yuin G2A. I wonder if it is legitimate Yuin clip-ons since the G2A was discontinued probably around 2015-16. It's $49 on Penon and definitely worth a try (if it is the real deal).

Audio Technica might sell EW9 which are pretty high end. I never heard those, but read that the discontinued EM9d were better and more balanced sounding (EW9 focuses more on mids) and watched Yahoo auction for a few weeks before I managed to win an auction.

End of non-earbud related post


----------



## The3DCie

Hey guys (and galls), long time no see, hope everyone is fine, been a crazy month on my end with absolutely no time at all to look for new shiny toys!

Hopefully I’ll have more time ahead to try to catch up with all the things I missed.

Get well everyone!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Danneq said:


> Too bad that there is no market for clip-on headphones anymore. I've got a small collection of clip-ons and all of them are no longer sold:
> 
> Yuin G2A
> 
> ...


Penon is selling New Old Stock of both *G2A* and *G1A*


----------



## furyossa

Danneq said:


> Too bad that there is no market for clip-on headphones anymore. I've got a small collection of clip-ons and all of them are no longer sold:
> Audio Technica ATH EM9d
> Dunu DN-C60II
> JVC HP-AL600-B
> ...


On Ali you can find these AT
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038916904.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33036856661.html


----------



## furyossa

The3DCie said:


> Hey guys (and galls), long time no see, hope everyone is fine, been a crazy month on my end with absolutely no time at all to look for new shiny toys!
> 
> Hopefully I’ll have more time ahead to try to catch up with all the things I missed.
> 
> Get well everyone!


I thought you found your end-game pair and left this thread for good


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> On Ali you can find these AT
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038916904.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33036856661.html


Probably fakes, since they are from Japan. 

But who knows...


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Probably fakes, since they are from Japan.
> 
> But who knows...


Maybe I'm wrong, but I think they are not fake. @WoodyLuvr what do you think?
​


----------



## XP_98 (Mar 5, 2021)

No one could compare RW-2000 and Me80 shells and fit ?

Is there a seller for RW-2000 where I could send them back in confidence if the fit is not Ok ?* 
Would have liked to find the Rw-2000 on Amazon somewhere here in Europe, or to buy them used so I can easily resell them again....

*Some sellers on Aliexpress claim free return, but the only time I returned an item to China, my parcel got lost, and although it was defective, I never got my refund, after 3 month my dispute got closed...


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 5, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Probably fakes, since they are from Japan.
> 
> But who knows...





furyossa said:


> Maybe I'm wrong, but I think they are not fake. @WoodyLuvr what do you think?
> ​


Really hard to say; I really would need to see the packaging and very likely the product up-close as well.

They could be very good fakes (this is a perfect product for Mainland Chinese manufacturers to copy) or very well could be original as New Old Stock.

Historically, Audio-Technica has produced some rather staggering numbers for many of their products (especially mobile products under USD200) and although specific products may be "discontinued" (and for some time) there sometimes remains a high number of unsold stock available for many, many years. Unlike some other brands that typically produce in smaller runs and recall unsold stock once a model is officially "discontinued" and/or "unsupported" Audio-Technica does not.

By the way, Audio Technica products are/have been made in Japan but also in Taiwan, Singapore, Thailand, China, and The Philippines. Majority of products are made equally between Japan and Taiwan. One must note and understand Japanese regulations... a very loosely defined and extremely ambiguous "*final assembly*" is all that is required to earn the "Made in JAPAN" notation and believe me nearly ALL Japanese manufacturers have taken full advantage of this in one form or another.


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Really hard to say; I really would need to see the packaging and very likely the product up-close as well.
> 
> They could be very good fakes (this is a perfect product for Mainland Chinese manufacturers to copy) or very well could be original as New Old Stock.
> 
> ...


Would that mean that a pc company for example, could have every single component made in china, ship the finished components to japan and then assembled all components into a pc. Could that be called "made in japan"?


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> Would that mean that a pc company for example, could have every single component made in china, ship the finished components to japan and then assembled all components into a pc. Could that be called "made in japan"?



I suppose so.

But that's the irony in our audio hobby. I've met some audiophiles that will only buy western brands for IEMs and headphones and they look down on CHIFI. But I keep telling them, majority of these western gear (other than a few TOTL sets or exceptions) are made or assembled in China.

Seen the usual advertisement on the packaging of some expensive IEMs (for example my Westones). It says "Proudly designed in the USA." Then in smaller print below, it says "Made in China".


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 5, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Would that mean that a pc company for example, could have every single component made in china, ship the finished components to japan and then assembled all components into a pc. Could that be called "made in japan"?


Yes. This is not entirely or always a bad thing either as many Japanese companies do send diligent "overseers" to make certain the products are being manufactured to the contracted standard and/or to enforce very strict quality control measures. In fact, some manufacturing plants outside of Japan are held to a even higher standard than anything in Japan... no joke! Also, a many Japanese company, many times, send certain key/quality parts that are entirely "Made in Japan" to the foreign manufacturer to use and will not allow a local substitute to be used at all.

Now again, I must stress that different product types have varying regulating definitions of "*final assembly*" but generally speaking it is awfully close to the example you have given. Small electronics, wrist watches, and automobile parts falling easily into your example while larger products like televisions, home appliances, and full automobiles fall into special specific regulations but all still have some element of "*final assembly*" present.

Some companies have been quite creative (ingenious in fact) in using a particular case design that allows the product to be entirely manufactured and nearly fully-assembled (99%) overseas and then shipped to Japan to simply be snapped/pulled/folded together in a matter of seconds. Even some sophisticated types of packaging may constitute as "*final assembly*" as well.

These practices, as nefarious as they may seem, have allowed some incredible products to be made and available to us at extraordinary prices. One must realize and accept that there are some manufacturing processes that simply can not be done in Japan at a reasonable cost or even legally in some cases.


----------



## assassin10000

jogawag said:


> The sound of the Yincrow rw-2000 is excellent, as ClieOS selected it as the TOTL, and I have no complaints.
> The shape of the shell is similar to the Smabat ST-10, and the shell size is slightly smaller than the ST-10.
> If the ST-10 is too loose for you, you may need to use double foam (donut on full foam) for the rw-2000.


Ooh. I didn't realize it was a smaller housing/driver size. Now I'm interested  .

Can you measure the RW-2000 diameter?


----------



## jogawag

assassin10000 said:


> Ooh. I didn't realize it was a smaller housing/driver size. Now I'm interested  .
> 
> Can you measure the RW-2000 diameter?


The diameter of the housing of the rw-2000 is 16.5mm, as measured this time.


----------



## XP_98

jogawag said:


> The diameter of the housing of the rw-2000 is 16.5mm, as measured this time.


Thanks for measuring 
Would be interesting to have also the thickness of the «ring» part.


----------



## XP_98

And if someone could do the same two measurements for smabat St-10...


----------



## jogawag (Mar 6, 2021)

XP_98 said:


> Thanks for measuring
> Would be interesting to have also the thickness of the «ring» part.


The thickness of the ring part of rw-2000 is about 2.5mm, and the same as st-10.
The diameter of the housing of the st-10 is 16.7mm, as measured this time.


----------



## XP_98

Thanks
For Me-80 : housing 17mm, thickness of ring part 6,5mm


----------



## WoodyLuvr




----------



## The3DCie

furyossa said:


> I thought you found your end-game pair and left this thread for good


Ha ha, I’m not too far off, to be honest, I’m so happy with what I have!

And by changing the cable of the Smabat M2 Pro just before selling them, I discovered that the original cable was causing them to pop out of my ears every time!

So I’m using the JCally EP05 with them, as it’s quite thin and doesn’t have earhooks and BAM!, Smabat M2 Pro is now one of my favorites buds!  

So detailed for a pair of earbuds it’s not even funny, they are incredible!
It’s quite like if I did buy a new pair of earbuds, just that I have them since quite some time now...  

One thing is certain, they aren’t going anywhere!

Anyway, back to work, hopefully I’ll have more time to muse around in the near future, even if my collection is now "set", you always want to try something new, just to see...


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


>


Why are they so beautiful? Just imagine if there were wooden PK shells, it would look amazing for sure


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 6, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Why are they so beautiful? Just imagine if there were wooden PK shells, it would look amazing for sure


His finish work has always been top notch but he has really refined his brand as of late... the copper splitter that he uses now being a perfect example.

Here are my 2018 Blurs... a custom-tuned pair of Beautiful Witch 美魔女 300Ω earbuds.


----------



## The3DCie

HombreCangrejo said:


> I need to see enough reviews before even considering it as an option. I bought the EP05, and in my opinion it's not a good buy, even considering the low price. For me, the RY4S Plus is much better. The sound is extremely in your face, and soundstage is much narrower. Face to face, the RY4S could seem as more laid back, but it's only that it has a more spacious presentation, more air between instruments and, globally, a more refined sound, where even the bass is miles ahead, in quantity and quality.
> 
> I also gave the EP05 the benefit of 50 hours of burn-in (not particularly a believer but, given that it's free...) and nothing changed, it is what it is.
> 
> In the (I hope) near future, I have high expectations in M3 being what M2 Pro finally wasn't.


That shows again we all ear things differently!

Although I don’t have the RY4S to compare I liked the sound quality of EP05 and I even bought the entire line of JCally products at that time! (I’ve seen that there are two new models since then, didn’t ear them...)

Admitedly I even prefer the sound quality of EP01 (the $2 buds!) or JC10 but I still quite like EP05 sound, even if it’s probably a niche in earbuds sound.

Anyway I hope it wasn’t my influence that led you to buy them, I hate to be of bad advice!... 

Fortunately they sell for only $14 so it’s not that a big deal.
And the MMCX cable they come with is now used on my Smabat M2 Pro without problem, I might have been lucky with their QC!


----------



## furyossa

The3DCie said:


> Ha ha, I’m not too far off, to be honest, I’m so happy with what I have!
> 
> And by changing the cable of the Smabat M2 Pro just before selling them, I discovered that the original cable was causing them to pop out of my ears every time!
> 
> ...


I'm glad that you find pairs that you like. 
You're right, sometimes "earhook" cables aren't the best solution, of course it depends on the shell of the earbuds. In these cases I often use this cable because it is very soft and flexible


----------



## The3DCie

furyossa said:


> I'm glad that you find pairs that you like.
> You're right, sometimes "earhook" cables aren't the best solution, of course it depends on the shell of the earbuds. In these cases I often use this cable because it is very soft and flexible


Thanks for the link, I’ll keep them in mind if I want to buy another cable!


----------



## furyossa (Mar 6, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> His finish work has always been top notch but he has really refined his brand as of late... the copper splitter that he uses now being a perfect example.
> 
> Here are my 2018 Blurs


Hmmm... looks ok but what about additional weight. Aluminum wire maybe will be good replacement or any simple tube.
I recently bought these small beads as a replacement for a splitter


----------



## FranQL (Mar 6, 2021)

Llevo unos días con mis nuevos cogollos DIY pk1 y pk2 que [USER = 525994] [USER = 525994] @furyossa [/ USER] [/ USER] me recomendó, a quien estoy muy agradecido.

Ha sido mucho más de lo esperado, además de ser muy bonito (para mi gusto claro). Cuando digo mucho más de lo esperado, me refiero a que hoy es el sonido que estaba buscando para mi conjunto de brotes, con pk1.

No esperaba encontrarlo tan rápido o tan barato (por supuesto, compré un segundo par ... quiero tener este sonido durante mucho tiempo).

Aún así, me quedo en este hilo, es genial.


----------



## furyossa (Mar 6, 2021)

FranQL said:


> Llevo unos días con mis nuevos cogollos DIY pk1 y pk2 que [USER = 525994] [USER = 525994] @furyossa [/ USER] [/ USER] me recomendó, a quien estoy muy agradecido.
> 
> Ha sido mucho más de lo esperado, además de ser muy bonito (para mi gusto claro). Cuando digo mucho más de lo esperado, me refiero a que hoy es el sonido que estaba buscando para mi conjunto de brotes, con pk1.
> 
> ...


Haven't you forgotten something?   I will love to learn Spanish but right now I will love translation 
BTW... nice collection of cables you have there


----------



## FranQL

Of course !!!! Spanish is the ideal language so that the translator never interprets what you really want to say!

That these buds are so good does not mean that I am not around here, giving my opinion (little, due to my little experience in buds), but always seeing what is being tested. Although it will cost me more to pull the trigger, surely something else I try.


----------



## mtl171

I forgot who suggested double foaming, though I finally decided to give it a shot on my Smabat ST10s Gold. It found that the increased seal really helps run these at lower gain, allowing for some more bass as well as more noticeable mids. I'm definitely happier with how sound as now I can get vocals at a loudness where I don't have to worry about the treble spike. The additional warmness is a little less then optimal, but at least it sounds less peaky now.

Also for anyone struggling with donuts, I found it helpful to pre-stretch then pull the entire thing over the bud. Then slowly pull it over the rim of the bud before using my nails to pull out the surrounding rim.


----------



## assassin10000

XP_98 said:


> And if someone could do the same two measurements for smabat St-10...



Search seems to have issues with older posts on this new software. Here's the measurements I've taken.

Yuin/PK shell: 16.1mm (original type)
K's LB 16.3mm
DIY PK shell: 16.7mm (new type, ie: B40)
MX500 shell: 16.8mm
BK2: 16.8mm (@jogawag's is 16.5mm, different batch???)
PT15: 16.35mm (18.3mm wide/thick)
PT25: 16.0mm x 17.0mm (at widest angle, directly across opening is 16.7mm, approx. 15mm wide/thick).
ACG (& Ti7): 15.75mm (5.35mm rim width, overall 15.45mm wide/thick).
EBX 15.9mm (17.70mm wide/thick)
Smabat ST-10: 16.8mm  (16.60mm wide/thick)
Smabat M1 Pro: 16.1mm


----------



## baskingshark

mtl171 said:


> I forgot who suggested double foaming, though I finally decided to give it a shot on my Smabat ST10s Gold. It found that the increased seal really helps run these at lower gain, allowing for some more bass as well as more noticeable mids. I'm definitely happier with how sound as now I can get vocals at a loudness where I don't have to worry about the treble spike. The additional warmness is a little less then optimal, but at least it sounds less peaky now.
> 
> Also for anyone struggling with donuts, I found it helpful to pre-stretch then pull the entire thing over the bud. Then slowly pull it over the rim of the bud before using my nails to pull out the surrounding rim.




If you find 2 layers of full foams makes the sound too warm, you can try putting a donut foam or a silicone cover as the inner layer, while keeping a full foam as the outer layer.


----------



## mtl171

baskingshark said:


> If you find 2 layers of full foams makes the sound too warm, you can try putting a donut foam or a silicone cover as the inner layer, while keeping a full foam as the outer layer


I do currently have a donut on top of a full. In your experience, does swapping the layering matter?


----------



## assassin10000

mtl171 said:


> I do currently have a donut on top of a full. In your experience, does swapping the layering matter?


Nope. 

Plus putting a donut foam over a full foam is waaay easier.


If it was a donut silicone cover, it's better/easier to put a foam over it.


----------



## Robius

Sorry I wasn't following the topic for a long while. 

Is there an earbud with 2pins/mmcx connectors and as detailed as NiceHCK ME80?


----------



## rprodrigues

Robius said:


> Sorry I wasn't following the topic for a long while.
> 
> Is there an earbud with 2pins/mmcx connectors and as detailed as NiceHCK ME80?



Maybe Rose Maria?
https://penonaudio.com/rose-maria.html


----------



## HombreCangrejo (Mar 7, 2021)

The3DCie said:


> That shows again we all ear things differently!
> 
> Although I don’t have the RY4S to compare I liked the sound quality of EP05 and I even bought the entire line of JCally products at that time! (I’ve seen that there are two new models since then, didn’t ear them...)
> 
> ...



Well, it's strange, as you always said they have bass in quantity, and that's not the case in my unit, so I don't know what to think. Probably I got the lemon in the batch, but probably there are several units with the same problems, as in CKLewis (I got mine in JieTu) one russian buyer says something similar. In the end, it could well being that the assembler is not the best, and that QC is close to non-existent.

Anyway, my next move, while waiting for M3, most probably will be RY4S 300Ohm, that some people say is slightly more refined and bass controlled than the Plus 32Ohm. I have no problem driving that load (Fiio E12 and Nobsound NS-08E), and I only use earbuds at home, so I'll give it a try.


----------



## Nool

HombreCangrejo said:


> Well, it's strange, as you always said they have bass in quantity, and that's not the case in my unit, so I don't know what to think. Probably I got the lemon in the batch, but probably there are several units with the same problems, as in CKLewis (I got mine in JieTu) one russian buyer says something similar. In the end, it could well being that the assembler is not the best, and that QC is close to non-existent.
> 
> Anyway, my next move, while waiting for M3, most probably will be RY4S 300Ohm, that some people say is slightly more refined and bass controlled than the Plus 32Ohm. I have no problem driving that load (Fiio E12 and Nobsound NS-08E), and I only use earbuds at home, so I'll give it a try.


You should definitely grab the yincrow x6, it's not totl or anything but it does a lot right for the price. It's a good standard for what earbuds can offer imo.


----------



## HombreCangrejo

Nool said:


> You should definitely grab the yincrow x6, it's not totl or anything but it does a lot right for the price. It's a good standard for what earbuds can offer imo.



How do you compare it to the RY4S+. Sorry if you did that previously, I admit I'm too lazy in this moment to do a search. I read somewhere that the Vido has the same driver that X6, but I seriously doubt that. I bought the black and the red ones and, although they are good for the ridiculously low price, they're nowhere near of what RY4S+ or NiceHCK DIY MX500 can offer, so I suppose the X6 is at another level. Nothing wrong with the Vidos, they are correctly tuned, and I have not detected harsh peaks, but the driver, logically, has its limitations.


----------



## Nool (Mar 7, 2021)

HombreCangrejo said:


> How do you compare it to the RY4S+. Sorry if you did that previously, I admit I'm too lazy in this moment to do a search. I read somewhere that the Vido has the same driver that X6, but I seriously doubt that. I bought the black and the red ones and, although they are good for the ridiculously low price, they're nowhere near of what RY4S+ or NiceHCK DIY MX500 can offer, so I suppose the X6 is at another level. Nothing wrong with the Vidos, they are correctly tuned, and I have not detected harsh peaks, but the driver, logically, has its limitations.


Sure, the RY4S+ (32ohm) might have sightly better resolution in the upper mids, but overall the tuning seems worse to me, strangely the lower mids sound sort of recessed. The RY4S+ comes off very hollow sounding, whereas the X6 has more body to its notes (without sounding "thick") and is much more coherent across the mids. Also seems like there's some treble rolloff on the RY4S+, X6 seemed to have much better extension. Overall the RY4S+ just sounded hollow to me, whereas the X6 was a more coherent warm tuning. Timbre seemed about the same, as did soundstage. I didn't bother trying to EQ the RY4S+ either, that might bring it closer to the X6.

I've never heard the Vidos, but I was actually just chatting with @vygas on discord about it, and yeah he says the X6 and Vidos use the same driver, and he also had this frequency response comparing them. I haven't heard the Vido, so can't comment on that.

So yeah.. it might just be a matter of tuning, since they seemed to have similar resolution/technicalities, which I assume infers the same drivers.. don't quote me on that, though. The X6 is a 15.5mm 32ohm driver FYI, according to the information on the box it came in.

Edit: Yeah I'm pretty sure it's just a matter of tuning, the RY4S+ seems to dip out in the mids somewhere, also it's definitely got more of a 6khz spike than the x6 or rw9, treble can get a little painful at higher volumes vs the x6. The x6 is also significantly bassier. Technically they seem very similar, if you like sharper treble you might prefer the RY4S+. Still, it comes off sounding hollow to me.

Unfortunately I don't have a frequency response of the RY4S+, maybe there's one buried in this thread somewhere.


----------



## vygas

Nool said:


> I've never heard the Vidos, but I was actually just chatting with @vygas on discord about it, and yeah he says the X6 and Vidos use the same driver, and he also had this frequency response comparing them. I haven't heard the Vido, so can't comment on that.


Also, credit to @cenizas for the FR of the X6, Black Vido and NiceHCK Traceless. You can find it and a comparison of the Vidos (and the X6) here : https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/yincrow-x6.22393/reviews#review-23970


----------



## jogawag

Nool said:


> ...
> 
> Unfortunately I don't have a frequency response of the RY4S+, maybe there's one buried in this thread somewhere.


The frequency response of the RY4S+ in this thread is here.


----------



## Nool

jogawag said:


> The frequency response of the RY4S+ in this thread is here.


Hey thanks, looks like I was right about that 6khz (or 7khz) spike, though on second listen treble extension after that does seem to be about the same on both. And yeah, the RY4S+ seems to peak around 300hz, where the X6 has a steadier tuning across the bass and mids, that'd explain the hollow quality I hear on the RY4S+.


----------



## 40760 (Mar 8, 2021)

Anyone wanting to try bell shaped earbuds should definitely pick up a pair of K's LBBS.

I did not have high expectations and was totally not expecting them to be so "full sounding" as these shells are so miniscule compared to my favorite MX500 type. Definitely better than the PK earbuds as these have better low ends. These do BOTH comfort and sound.

I will be looking forward to the day I get the or 120ohm titanium or blue bells. I believe these are the right direction for me.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 8, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> Anyone wanting to try bell shaped earbuds should definitely pick up a pair of K's LBBS.
> 
> I did not have high expectations and was totally not expecting them to be so "full sounding" as these shells are so miniscule compared to my favorite MX500 type. Definitely better than the PK earbuds as these have better low ends. These do BOTH comfort and sound.
> 
> I will be looking forward to the day I get the or 120ohm titanium or blue bells. I believe these are the right direction for me.


Concur completely regarding the Ks bell shell shape and sizing. I have had my Ksearphone Bell-Ti 120Ω (No. 831/1000) earbuds now for over two weeks and I am beyond pleased with them; truly amazing. They are even more ear friendly than my 600Ω Puresounds!


----------



## jogawag

palestofwhite said:


> Anyone wanting to try bell shaped earbuds should definitely pick up a pair of K's LBBS.
> 
> I did not have high expectations and was totally not expecting them to be so "full sounding" as these shells are so miniscule compared to my favorite MX500 type. Definitely better than the PK earbuds as these have better low ends. These do BOTH comfort and sound.
> 
> I will be looking forward to the day I get the or 120ohm titanium or blue bells. I believe these are the right direction for me.


Please share the link of your K's LBBS.


----------



## 40760 (Mar 8, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur completely regarding the Ks bell shell shape and sizing. I have had my Ksearphone Bell-Ti 120Ω (No. 831/1000) earbuds now for over two weeks and I am beyond pleased with them; truly amazing. They are even more ear friendly than my 600Ω Puresounds!



It is one of those moments that make me rediscover the earbud hobby. If I had gone with the bell series earlier I might have saved even more money.

Anyway the fit is really fool proof for these, as they have almost no stem and they disappear into the ear. Their choice of cable and and hardware materials are light and manageable hence not causing any tugging, unlike the Sun Dice.

They sort of also have a bit of that magical "reverb" sound that the Liebesleid makes, which is surprising.


----------



## 40760 (Mar 8, 2021)

jogawag said:


> Please share the link of your K's LBBS.


I bought them from Jietu store on Shopee, which I think you can still get them for a better price than on AE.


----------



## jogawag

palestofwhite said:


> I bought them from Jietu store on Shopee, which I think you can still get them for a better price than on AE.


Which product is your K's LBBS on AE?
Please share the link of your K's LBBS on AE.


----------



## 40760

On AE, they are currently sold out on NICEHCK where I usually buy,  but you can still get them from CKLewis Audio Store. Select the "Little Black Bell S" option.

Unfortunately, they are almost twice the price I paid on Shopee.


----------



## 40760

BTW, RW-2000 has also just been delivered. Just that I have not unbox it as I'm still enjoying the LBBS.


----------



## jogawag

palestofwhite said:


> BTW, RW-2000 has also just been delivered. Just that I have not unbox it as I'm still enjoying the LBBS.


I'd like to ask about the sound comparison between LBBS and RW-2000.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

palestofwhite said:


> BTW, RW-2000 has also just been delivered. Just that I have not unbox it as I'm still enjoying the LBBS.





jogawag said:


> I'd like to ask about the sound comparison between LBBS and RW-2000.


Please give your "unboxed" impressions first so we may then compare to your later impressions after opening and listening to them...


----------



## 40760 (Mar 8, 2021)

Looks like you guys are more excited than I'm. I'll unbox and have a first impressions of the RW-2000 after work.


----------



## emusic13

Is $320 a good price for Bell Blue? Can never tell with the AE "discounts"


----------



## XP_98

palestofwhite said:


> Looks like you guys are more excited than I'm. I'll unbox and have a first impressions of the RW-2000 after work.


Fine !


----------



## 40760 (Mar 8, 2021)

Not the best with sound descriptions, but here are my brief initial impressions:

*RW-2000*
+ TOTL type of tuning for sound signature
+ Smoother overall presentation (nothing harsh or standing out thus suited for prolonged listening)
+ Faster & tighter bass (energetic low end)
+ Easier to drive because of lower impedance (SE3.5 is more than sufficient)
- Fit loses out to the LBBS
- Can sound less engaging than the LBBS due to flatter signature
- Price is a lot higher (but fitting of TOTL status)

*K's LBBS*
+ Great tonality (sounds more correct or natural to my ears?)
+ Signature seems more V-shaped (guess that was what K's were after with this model)
+ Presentation is livelier and more dimensional (not that they are more detailed, but more 3D sounding)
+ Fit is possibly the best of all earbud styles
+ Higher price to performance ratio
- Does not sound as "full" as RW-2000 (because V-shaped)
- Low end is good but not as pronounced as RW-2000

*Conclusion:*
RW-2000 is the better earbuds with a fuller with more upfront and energetic presentation. LBBS more natural and less throwing everything "in your face". You can feel the thickness of the sound of the RW-2000 which makes the LBBS thinner sounding. In this case the LBBS is more airy and layered but definitely less detailed.

The RW-2000 is technically more capable, but a more refined version of the LBBS will be more to my tastes. I'm thinking Blue Bell or Bell-Ti 120ohms, if the previous posts or mentions on the internet are accurate.


----------



## rprodrigues (Mar 8, 2021)

@palestofwhite


Thanks for sharing!
I'm trying to convince myself that I need a RW2000 ...

If you had to keep just one, would it be LBBS?


----------



## 40760 (Mar 8, 2021)

rprodrigues said:


> @palestofwhite
> 
> 
> Thanks for sharing!
> ...


If I have to choose between the two, I will take the RW-2000.

But if I can do it all over again, I might go straight for the Blue Bell.


----------



## Setsuya

Can someone recommend the best earbuds I can get on a budget? Can't be more than 22€ the cable + 22€ the earbuds alone (it needs to be a separate purchase so I don't pay taxes in my Country).
Thank you.


----------



## FranQL (Mar 8, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> Anyone wanting to try bell shaped earbuds should definitely pick up a pair of K's LBBS.
> 
> I did not have high expectations and was totally not expecting them to be so "full sounding" as these shells are so miniscule compared to my favorite MX500 type. Definitely better than the PK earbuds as these have better low ends. These do BOTH comfort and sound.
> 
> I will be looking forward to the day I get the or 120ohm titanium or blue bells. I believe these are the right direction for me.


well, each ear is a world ... For me it is not like that, in LBBs there is a frequency range between subass to bass that I lack and the voices and some instruments are metallic. In the case of the adjustment, PK suits me better and its tonality seems much more natural.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 12, 2022)

*K's Temperament 钛铃 "Titanium Ling" Bell-Ti (120Ω)
3.5TRRS Balanced aka 3.5mm HiFiMan Type*




*No. 831/1000*




*"LIMTTED EDTTION"*
_*( which is decidedly better than "Limited Edition" in my book   )*_​
This was K's 2018 flagship model and came in a titanium alloy bell-shaped shell and cabled with 5N pure silver wire. It was offered in two (2) impedance versions: low (32Ω) and high (120Ω). Only 1,000 titanium alloy shells were manufactured to be used for both impedance models.

*SPECS*
Parent Company: 凱聲科技 Kaisheng Technology
Brand Name: K's (Ksearphone)
Sub-Brand Line: Temperament
Impedance: 120Ω
Sensitivity: 106 ± 3dB/mW
Frequency Range: 5-45000Hz
THD: <0.2% @ 1KHz (sometimes noted as <1% @ 1KHz)
Channel Error: <1dB
Magnet: N55
Cable Length: 1.2M ± 5cm.
Drive: 15mm Dynamic Drive

*TIMELINE*
A real rollercoaster ride.

Ordered: 4 FEB 2021
Received: 10 FEB 2021
Right Channel/Driver Issue: 15 MAY 2021
_After three (3) months and four (4) days of daily use the right channel, in a single day, started to decline in volume, began fading in and out, and then went completely silent due to what I suspected was 'shotty' soldering of the cable to the right driver unit. The right cable was very loose and easily shifting, back and forth, within the shell stem. Oh how so very disappointing this was! Dealing with Ksearphone has been a nightmare. Horrible customer service._​Repaired by Wong @ Blur: 10 JUN 2021 (faulty driver voice coil and loose cable; see BUILD ("THE REPAIR") below.
Received: 21 JUN 2021
Left Driver Failure: 6 DEC 2021
_I am sadly through with Ksearphones. Their QA/QC and customer service is horrendous. Case closed._​Repaired by FranQL (left voice coil blown; unrepairable; drivers completely replaced): 10-14 MAR 2022
Received: 18 MAR 2022 (FranQL Temperament Woody Edition)
Sent to Cypherus Audio - Pending New Drivers: SEP 2022
​​*BUILD ("THE REPAIR")*
Arghhh... an utter, total train wreck.

K's most definitely had/is having some rather concerning QC issues in both build and finish quality as it is not very consistent nor at the high standard that one should/would expect at this price level. Oh well, I still love me' Bell-Ti's though!

Thankfully, Wong Kuan Wae @ Blur was able to repair them for me. Besides a loose cable the true issue was that the right driver had completely failed due to a faulty driver voice coil. The driver is directly mounted to the inside of the titanium shell cap/front cover under very tight tolerance. With the aid of a watchmaker's loupe and very steady hands Wong successfully repaired the driver by extending the voice coil wires by soldering two (2) very tiny lengths of Litz OFC wire directly connecting them to the driver solder pads/points and the pillars. He also tightened the loose cable as well.

After repairing and testing, Wong discovered that the drivers are not matched very well. There is a 1dB difference in loudness between the left and right drivers. I had completely missed this imbalance before but I guess I can blame it on my poor hearing 🤪. If I listen carefully I can just barely discern (identify) the difference now.

*COMFORT*
Heavenly.

With the nightmare (driver failure) over I can now move on to say that these are the most comfortable earbuds I have ever owned and/or worn period. The small titanium shells remain cool here in the tropics and immediately disappears (I have rather small ears so I find it difficult to wear MX style shells for any length of time so prefer smaller shell types like PK or Bell). The cable, though very thin, is very supple... gracefully so, and has very minor, if any, microphonics. Probably, the second best earbud cable I have ever heard for low microphonics... coming right behind my *PureSounds 醇声 PS100-600S "Pop Edition" (600Ω)* which had the upgraded ultra-soft and ultra-quiet 600-core copper cable.

*SOUND*
Warm and gooey. Smooth as silk. Strangely yummy.

I had asked *@ClieOS* for his recommendation of a god-tier earbud that exhibited low fatigue for ultra-extended listening sessions and he offered "Bell-Ti 120Ω".  Indeed! The Bell-Ti 120Ω has been extremely polite, friendly, and relaxing to my ears and with the music genre that I typically listen to (ambient electronic). Coupled with the superbly comfortable fit I can listen to these earbuds all day long without issue or complaint

Originally, I had thought they were balanced or neutral but with a very soft signature. I was wrong. It is now my personal opinion that these earbuds are *not for critical listening*. Their sound signature and tuning is actually really goofy but not necessarily in a bad way if you seek a super-mellow earbud! I have come to realize that they are rather mid-focused and although they exhibit excellent midrange resolution (detail & clarity) they are way too forward in presentation. I believe this forwardness is due to the loudness of the mid-bass and mid-range (~125Hz to 500Hz) overpowering (greatly) the higher frequencies above 2KHz... which is nice for those of us who are sensitive to bright & sibilant treble especially during extended listening sessions. A resulting negative is that the overall timbre and treble (higher frequencies) are inaccurate. The timbre is soft and "far away" and the treble is recessed. One would say it has a very forward position which adversely affects the soundstage making it feel distant while also sounding very close to one's ears. The sound signature is heard more "inside your head" and in many ways kind of like coming from "behind your head" if I am making any sense at all.

To sum it all up: *the tuning is a complete disaster! *And thus why I think these earbuds can not, and do not, offer that "reference sound" required for critical listening. With that said, I totally love 'em... go figure!



Spoiler: K's Bell-Ti 120Ω





 









 







Spoiler: Ks Bell-Ti 120Ω - Sound Signature Plot






Their primary sound signature is neutral-warm however, their secondary and tertiary sound signatures pull them back towards neutral and over to sharp/detailed with a hint of an airy sparkle that is neither bright nor sibilant. They are very tame, treble friendly, and virtually fatigue-free.





Spoiler: Adapters & Cables



Here are some of the headphone adapters and audio extension cables that I use with my Bell-Ti earbuds.

_Top_: Ksearphone (K's) 3.5TRRS to 3.5SE Adapter Cable
_Bottom_: Venture Electronics (VE) 3.5TRRS to 2.5TRRS Adapter Cable




_Top_: XINHA HIFI Audio Headphone-Audio Extension Cable (2.5TRRS Female to 2.5TRRS Male; 75cm)
_Bottom_: Japanese No Name Brand Headphone-Audio Extension Cable (3.5SE Female to 3.5SE Male; 120cm)











Spoiler: Battleship Earbud Case






Ksearphone Bell-Ti 120Ω earbuds sitting on top of *"Battleship Earbud" Case*

This is a re-purposed watch travel case that I completely gutted and then re-applied cotton batting, thin foam padding, and black suede velvet. I also applied black suede velvet onto the outer bottom-side of the case. The top of the case was then decorated with vintage 1898 US Battleship Proprietary Revenue stamps (aka "Battleships") depicting the USS Maine sunk by an explosion in Havana Harbor, Havana, Cuba on 15 February 1898. These 120-year-old war tax stamps were affixed with three applications of decoupage glue followed by fifty thinly applied layers of acrylic polymer varnish which were lightly and finely sanded between coats, over a period of one month. I am still waiting for the varnish to completely cure before the final rub-out and polish.




 


Scott#RB23 5/8c Deep Ultramarine - US Proprietary "Battleship" Revenue Series of 1898
Engraved by Robert Ponickau. Frame engraved by Douglas S. Ronaldson.
These revenue stamps were issued to fund the Spanish–American War.




Painting of U.S.S. Maine by Frederick Nelson Atwood (1895); B&W Photograph circa 1897




Connected to a FiiO BTR5 via a 3.5mm Balanced to 3.5mm Unbalanced Adapter. You may spy a Meizu HiFi Pro DAC headAMP; FiiO L26 3.5mm Unbalanced to 2.5mm Balanced Adapter; FiiO BTR5; ddHiFi DD DJ35A 3.5mm Unbalanced to 2.5mm Balanced Adapter; and an awesome 3.5mm Unbalanced Audio Extension Cable that I bought many, many years ago in Japan.




Top Left: *Crystalcore Audio Kryptonite 150Ω Balanced 2.5mm *Top Right: *•D•Q•S•M••A•u•d•i•o• Turandot 16Ω Balanced 2.5mm*
Bottom Left: *Blur 美魔女 Beautiful Witch "Dark" 300Ω by by Wong Kuan Wae *Bottom Right:  *Smabat ST-10S Black-Gold 150Ω*




Here is a pic of *"Battleship Earbud" Case* all ready for travel. So no, my earbuds do not travel loose within the case, but rather each in their own protective leather pouch


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Ksearphone Bell-Ti 120Ω Balanced 3.5mm *(No. 831/1000)
> 
> *--- More will be posted here later about how they sound after I have had more time to listen to them ---*​
> 
> ...


This collection is "the best of the best" and with that travel case you have a package worth dying for


----------



## jogawag

palestofwhite said:


> If I have to choose between the two, I will take the RW-2000.
> 
> But if I can do it all over again, I might go straight for the Blue Bell.


I am looking forward to your review of the Blue Bell.


----------



## 40760

FranQL said:


> well, each ear is a world ... For me it is not like that, in LBBs there is a frequency range between subass to bass that I lack and the voices and some instruments are metallic. In the case of the adjustment, PK suits me better and its tonality seems much more natural.



I think you do a better job of describing sound than me and I agree that it can sound a bit "splashy" at some parts. Your description matches when I switch back to the RW-2000 from the LBBS, and I think you will like the RW-2000's sound signature.

For my case, it is not so much the overall sound signature of the LBBS, but how it presented the potential of the bell shaped shells for improvement in tuning. I was never into the bell series because I always never pick the smaller shells, with the exception of the Shozy BK and SWD2+ for PK shells. That being said, I find they are good but also not the best when it comes to low ends.



jogawag said:


> I am looking forward to your review of the Blue Bell.



I have the TONEKING Dendroaspis and K's Samsara on delivery and should be done for quite some time. Maybe when there is another round of good platform discounts.


----------



## baskingshark

palestofwhite said:


> I think you do a better job of describing sound than me and I agree that it can sound a bit "splashy" at some parts. Your description matches when I switch back to the RW-2000 from the LBBS, and I think you will like the RW-2000's sound signature.
> 
> For my case, it is not so much the overall sound signature of the LBBS, but how it presented the potential of the bell shaped shells for improvement in tuning. I was never into the bell series because I always never pick the smaller shells, with the exception of the Shozy BK and SWD2+ for PK shells. That being said, I find they are good but also not the best when it comes to low ends.
> 
> ...



There's an Aliexpress Anniversary sale end of March each year. It is considered one of their bigger sales, so let's hope for good deals then!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Help! For the life of me I am unable to find plastic dust covers/caps for 2.5mm male plugs. Does anyone know of a good source?


----------



## FranQL

WoodyLuvr said:


> Help! For the life of me I am unable to find plastic dust covers/caps for 2.5mm male plugs. Does anyone know of a good source?


I have and do not use them, I can send you some.


----------



## FranQL

You can also do the following, I buy in this store, they are made of silicone, of great quality:

https://a.aliexpress.com/_v2Huut

You send a message to the seller and tell him what you need, he will give you a price.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

FranQL said:


> I have and do not use them, I can send you some.


Very kind of you but not worth the postage from Spain to Thailand.


FranQL said:


> You can also do the following, I buy in this store, they are made of silicone, of great quality:
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_v2Huut
> 
> You send a message to the seller and tell him what you need, he will give you a price.


That link for some reason doesn't work for me... strange. Is that example dust cap 2.5mm or 3.5mm?


----------



## wskl

emusic13 said:


> Is $320 a good price for Bell Blue? Can never tell with the AE "discounts"



PriceArchive says that $301 was the lowest price. If it is not urgent, I would suggest that you wait until the upcoming Anniversary Sale (final week of March), there may be a better deal with coupons, etc.




Setsuya said:


> Can someone recommend the best earbuds I can get on a budget? Can't be more than 22€ the cable + 22€ the earbuds alone (it needs to be a separate purchase so I don't pay taxes in my Country).
> Thank you.



So you want an earbud with detachable cable, yes?  I think for your budget, the RY4S Plus MMCX


----------



## FranQL

WoodyLuvr said:


> Very kind of you but not worth the postage from Spain to Thailand.
> 
> That link for some reason doesn't work for me... strange. Is that example dust cap 2.5mm or 3.5mm?


Look


----------



## sutosuto

palestofwhite said:


> Your description matches when I switch back to the RW-2000


Do you have smabat ST10s gold?
If yes and if you don't mind, how is its bass, detail and clarity compared to rw-2000?

Thank you


----------



## Mbabrete

Hello everyone, I am a new bird here but I have long read this forum without logging in (pardon for my honest 🙂).and I ended up creating an account here because I was struggling to find a replacement for recently break down my beloved "ann100" 😭. Is there any suggestion with the same ann100 sound signature? Thank's before


----------



## rkw

FranQL said:


> You can also do the following, I buy in this store, they are made of silicone, of great quality:
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_v2Huut
> You send a message to the seller and tell him what you need, he will give you a price.





WoodyLuvr said:


> That link for some reason doesn't work for me... strange.


Here is the seller's store: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/all-wholesale-products/5003206.html


----------



## WoodyLuvr

rkw said:


> Here is the seller's store: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/all-wholesale-products/5003206.html


Many thanks!

It is truly amazing; I spent nearly all day hunting for these 2.5mm dust covers to no avail. I can't find them anywhere. Crazy.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

sutosuto said:


> Do you have smabat ST10s gold?
> If yes and if you don't mind, how is its bass, detail and clarity compared to rw-2000?
> 
> Thank you


ST-10s Gold have better sub bass, the rest is better in RW-2000.


----------



## 40760

I can see why people who are into jazz or vocals can appreciate the Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis, but the low end is simply too underwhelming for me.

I very much prefer the RW-2000 over this set.


----------



## gordonderp

Anybody got some eq settings for the smabat st10 silvers?


----------



## XP_98

And for the Rw-2000, if useful ?


----------



## wskl

It seems that I am enjoying my Smabat ST-10 again, previously I was getting thin mids and cold tonality like others have experienced, I did a 100hr burn-in and that seems to have done the trick.  Mids are now fuller, treble is less sharp and it sounds more musical too.

Currently I use it with NiceHCK 8-core copper cable, it's quite a good cable, not very thick and it is light enough to be used cable down although with the ST-10 I wear them over the ear.




I have also ordered a couple of others to experiment with.

NiceHCK C16-3 Copper
NiceHCK LitzOCC 4N Copper

If you read the reviews on head-fi, they should be a good match for neutral or analytical signatures.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Yet another creation by Wong...







https://www.instagram.com/blurearbuds_boleh7/


----------



## Setsuya (Mar 10, 2021)

wskl said:


> So you want an earbud with detachable cable, yes?  I think for your budget, the RY4S Plus MMCX



Thanks for the response.
It doesn't need to be detachable but the best I can find for 22€. I been using the Memt T5 for almost 3 years but they are not working anymore.

Are there any earbuds store that sells directly from Europe? That way I don't have to be limited by such a low budget. Would love to get the Smabat ST-10 for example.


----------



## wskl

Setsuya said:


> Thanks for the response.
> It doesn't need to be detachable but the best I can find for 22€. I been using the Memt T5 for almost 3 years but they are not working anymore.
> 
> Are there any earbuds store that sells directly from Europe? That way I don't have to be limited by such a low budget. Would love to get the Smabat ST-10 for example.



You can try Amazon but you have limited choice, they sell Edifier H180 and a few different models from FAAEAL.


----------



## jestercow

wskl said:


> It seems that I am enjoying my Smabat ST-10 again, previously I was getting thin mids and cold tonality like others have experienced, I did a 100hr burn-in and that seems to have done the trick.  Mids are now fuller, treble is less sharp and it sounds more musical too.


I may get thrown in the pit for this, but I am not a believer in hardware burn-in...BUT I'll give it a go as I've nothing to lose!


----------



## 40760 (Mar 10, 2021)

jestercow said:


> I may get thrown in the pit for this, but I am not a believer in hardware burn-in...BUT I'll give it a go as I've nothing to lose!


Not sure about hardware burn-in, but I'm having a brain burn-in with the Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis, and I'm more accepting of them as time passes.

A plus is that they are more comfortable than the RW-2000.


----------



## povidlo

palestofwhite said:


> Not sure about hardware burn-in, but I'm having a brain burn-in with the Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis, and I'm more accepting of them as time passes.
> 
> A plus is that they are more comfortable than the RW-2000.


How's the treble on RW-2000?

I have stayed away from them so far since both X6 and RW-9 sound dark to me with poor treble extension (both are good 'buds nonetheless). I wonder if 2000 has the same sound sig.


----------



## 40760

povidlo said:


> How's the treble on RW-2000?
> 
> I have stayed away from them so far since both X6 and RW-9 sound dark to me with poor treble extension (both are good 'buds nonetheless). I wonder if 2000 has the same sound sig.



The treble is definitely better on the RW-2000, but its presentation is still smooth and thick. Definitely not tuned to sound crystal clear or airy as compared to something like the Moondrop Liebesleid.


----------



## Luis1316

First time into earbuds, and jumped right into Ks Onmyoji 2021 30ohm 4.4 mm thanks to some recommendation here. Got them an hour ago, so here are only my first impressions coming from a IEM guy.
It sounds very balanced and open to me; I initially expected a lack of bass quantity using ring foams, but It surprisingly wasn't the case. Actually, It sounds very close to my favorite IEM, LZ A7 pop black filter with foam mod: timbre quality is very close; both of them sound very open having an "out of the head" feeling; nothing in the frequency spectrum particulary overwhelms other parts; great imaging in both cases; the distance of the voices are also about the same. 
The first thing that surprised me was the impact of the bass quality and not by the overall timbre (everything here compared to my LZ A7, not saying it wasn't natural or good, but It sounds very very close to what I was previously used to). The high mids are very very smooth but also very clear without loosing any sparkling.
I have been "fighting" with the foams, trying different combinations to get a good sealing and my ideal tuning: single full foam, single ring foam, double full-ring foam, full-ring mixed foam, earhooks...I ended up with a single ring foam, and now I can understand why people find earbuds being good and also very comfortable. I will probably be using Onmyoji more at home and LZ A7 while I'm out.
This was a very satisying purchase, I don't feel any itch about looking for something else at the moment, but you know how this rabit hole works... so maybe in a few months?...


----------



## viktor3000 (Mar 10, 2021)

Hi guys!
  Tell me if there is a big difference in the sound delivery of the ps100-500, in comparison with the ps100-260?  In ps100-260, I liked that the sound is similar to ks K300, but with better mids and slightly less pronounced highs .... Is this the sound in ps 100-500?  Or is it better to choose the Yinman 600?

  P.S.  Again, I like the sound of ks K300 and ps100-260.  Player ibasso dx160.  Music happy hardcore, eurodance, techno, hardstyle


----------



## jogawag (Mar 10, 2021)

jestercow said:


> I may get thrown in the pit for this, but I am not a believer in hardware burn-in...BUT I'll give it a go as I've nothing to lose!


The Smabat ST-10 (green) comes in many revisions, and in the case of the revision that comes with a silver-plated copper cable, I think you can make the sound thicker by replacing it with a MMCX copper cable.



palestofwhite said:


> Not sure about hardware burn-in, but I'm having a brain burn-in with the Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis, and I'm more accepting of them as time passes.
> 
> A plus is that they are more comfortable than the RW-2000.


I think you can make the RW-2000 more comfortable by using double foam (donut on full foam).


----------



## Feilong4

Luis1316 said:


> First time into earbuds, and jumped right into Ks Onmyoji 2021 30ohm 4.4 mm thanks to some recommendation here. Got them an hour ago, so here are only my first impressions coming from a IEM guy.
> It sounds very balanced and open to me; I initially expected a lack of bass quantity using ring foams, but It surprisingly wasn't the case. Actually, It sounds very close to my favorite IEM, LZ A7 pop black filter with foam mod: timbre quality is very close; both of them sound very open having an "out of the head" feeling; nothing in the frequency spectrum particulary overwhelms other parts; great imaging in both cases; the distance of the voices are also about the same.
> The first thing that surprised me was the impact of the bass quality and not by the overall timbre (everything here compared to my LZ A7, not saying it wasn't natural or good, but It sounds very very close to what I was previously used to). The high mids are very very smooth but also very clear without loosing any sparkling.
> I have been "fighting" with the foams, trying different combinations to get a good sealing and my ideal tuning: single full foam, single ring foam, double full-ring foam, full-ring mixed foam, earhooks...I ended up with a single ring foam, and now I can understand why people find earbuds being good and also very comfortable. I will probably be using Onmyoji more at home and LZ A7 while I'm out.
> This was a very satisying purchase, I don't feel any itch about looking for something else at the moment, but you know how this rabit hole works... so maybe in a few months?...


Could I get you to measure the diameter of the earpieces? I also just got an earbud today (NiceHCK EBX21) but they don't quite fit me well with the provided foams and silicone rings.

Also, I've got that album but I've yet to listen to it.  Not sure if it'll sort of spoil or hint at some of the events in the movie.


----------



## voxdub

Replacement Smabat st-10s black gold arrived a few days ago, damn I've missed these things, and gotta say hats off to NICEHCK, return and replacement sorted no problem despite being outside normal AE return period, great service from them even over holiday period.


----------



## Luis1316

Feilong4 said:


> Could I get you to measure the diameter of the earpieces? I also just got an earbud today (NiceHCK EBX21) but they don't quite fit me well with the provided foams and silicone rings.
> 
> Also, I've got that album but I've yet to listen to it.  Not sure if it'll sort of spoil or hint at some of the events in the movie.


1.6 cm is the diameter. 
It's just your old Utada Hikaru singles, always revolving around romantic themes, there isn't any hint to the anime, but it will be very hard to dodge spoilers through the whole year on internet.


----------



## chinmie

viktor3000 said:


> Hi guys!
> Tell me if there is a big difference in the sound delivery of the ps100-500, in comparison with the ps100-260?  In ps100-260, I liked that the sound is similar to ks K300, but with better mids and slightly less pronounced highs .... Is this the sound in ps 100-500?  Or is it better to choose the Yinman 600?
> 
> P.S.  Again, I like the sound of ks K300 and ps100-260.  Player ibasso dx160.  Music happy hardcore, eurodance, techno, hardstyle



I haven't tried the PS100-260 (to be sure, you're talking about the Puresounds, right?), but i have the 500 (classic) and tried the Yinman 600.

The PS100-500 is really close in sound to the ATH R70X, with slight difference in smaller stage size and a bit more forward mid. Yinman 600 has a more warmer and safer tuning. both have similar level of SQ. it also has a better cable and removable too.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 26, 2022)

viktor3000 said:


> Hi guys!
> Tell me if there is a big difference in the sound delivery of the ps100-500, in comparison with the ps100-260?  In ps100-260, I liked that the sound is similar to ks K300, but with better mids and slightly less pronounced highs .... Is this the sound in ps 100-500?  Or is it better to choose the Yinman 600?
> 
> P.S.  Again, I like the sound of ks K300 and ps100-260.  Player ibasso dx160.  Music happy hardcore, eurodance, techno, hardstyle





chinmie said:


> I haven't tried the PS100-260 (to be sure, you're talking about the Puresounds, right?), but i have the 500 (classic) and tried the Yinman 600.
> 
> The PS100-500 is really close in sound to the ATH R70X, with slight difference in smaller stage size and a bit more forward mid. Yinman 600 has a more warmer and safer tuning. both have similar level of SQ. it also has a better cable and removable too.


Concur with *@chinmie *whom offers great advice when it comes to* PureSounds 醇声 *and *Yinman 音曼 (aka Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼)*.

*PureSounds 醇声 PureTone - All Models c2016-2019*​In 2018 the company *PureSounds 醇声 *rebranded themselves as "*PureTone 醇声*" a simple variation of the exact same Chinese name "PureSounds".​​2016 - Puresounds 醇声 PS100-64; 64Ω (aka PureTone)​2016 - PureSounds 醇声 PS100-150; 150Ω (aka PureTone)​2016 - PureSounds 醇声 PS100-260; 260Ω (aka PureTone)​2016 - PureSounds 醇声 PS100-500 / PS100-500P; 500Ω (aka PureTone)​2016 - PureSounds 醇声 PS100-600 / PS100-600S; 600Ω @ 93dB/mW (aka PureTone)​2018 - PureTone 醇声 PT1; 32Ω (aka "PureSounds")​2018 - PureTone 醇声 PT2 ; 32Ω (aka "PureSounds")​2018 - PureTone 醇声 PT3; 32Ω (aka "PureSounds")​2018 - PureTone 醇声 PT6; 32Ω (aka "PureSounds")​2018 - PureTone 醇声 PT8; 32Ω (aka "PureSounds")​2018 - PureTone 醇声 PT9; 150Ω (aka "PureSounds")​2018 - PureTone 醇声 PT22; 32Ω (aka "PureSounds")​2019 - PureTone 醇声 PT8Pro; 64Ω (aka "PureSounds")​2019 - PureTone 醇声 PT9Pro; 150Ω (aka "PureSounds")​
Now back to the *PureSounds 醇声 PS100 Series*...

Yinman 音曼 600 (Yinman 音曼 2.0 醇净 600) have been said to be warmer than the PureSounds 醇声 PS100 Series and being the closest in sound to the PureSounds 醇声 PS100-600 model. Ksearphone 凯 K300 Samsara (Reincarnation) 轮回 v1 & v2 (300Ω) are probably a bit more lively than the smoother balanced (neutral-sounding) PureSounds... I'll let *@chinmie *"chime in" on that (no pun intended there). Like the Yinman 音曼 600, the PureSounds _醇声_ PS100-600/600S requires a healthy power source to really shine (meaning they should be amp'd).

*Yinman 600 (neutral warm)*​*PureSounds PS100-500 (neutral bass)*​*PureSounds PS100-600 (neutral sub-bass)*​_*Ks K300 Samsara (neutral warm)*_​​One must note that besides the "normal" aka "unbalanced" (3.5mm) and "balanced" (2.5mm; 3.5mm, & 4.4mm) versions of the PureSounds _醇声 _PS100-500 and PS100-600, PureSounds also offered two (2) different tunings: _*"pop" (vocals)*_ and _*"classic" (classical)*_. Many will say that of any "house sound" tunings, these were/are probably the most noticeably different and perhaps also the reason why many have found them not very responsive to EQ (though one could argue that they really don't need it ). The PS100-500 runs more neutral than the PS100-600 and depending on the tuning version has an emphasis on mid-vocals ("pop") or mid-instruments ("classic") while the PS100-600 is slightly warmer with even deeper sub bass and again with either the "classic" or "pop" tuning emphasis in the mids.

*PureSounds 醇声 PS100 Series - All Versions c2016-2017*​​*PS100-64Ω (108 dB/mW)*​*PureSounds PS100-64Ω Unbalanced 3.5mm aka "Normal"*​​​*PS100-150Ω  (108 dB/mW)*​*PureSounds PS100-150Ω Unbalanced 3.5mm aka "Normal"*​​​*PS100-260Ω (102 dB/mW)*​*PureSounds PS100-260Ω Unbalanced 3.5mm aka "Normal"*​*PureSounds PS100-260Ω "Balanced" 2.5mm*​​​*PS100-500Ω (95-96 dB/mW)*​*PureSounds PS100-500Ω (PS100-500 // PS100-500C) "Classic" tuning; Unbalanced 3.5mm aka "Normal"*​*PureSounds PS100-500P "Pop" tuning; Unbalanced 3.5mm aka "Normal"*​​*PureSounds PS100-500Ω (PS100-500 // PS100-500C) "Classic" tuning; "Balanced" 2.5mm*​*PureSounds PS100-500P "Pop" tuning; "Balanced" 2.5mm*​​*PureSounds PS100-500Ω (PS100-500 // PS100-500C) "Classic" tuning; "Balanced" 3.5mm*​*PureSounds PS100-500P "Pop" tuning; "Balanced" 3.5mm*​​*PureSounds PS100-500Ω (PS100-500 // PS100-500C) "Classic" tuning; "Balanced" 4.4mm*​*PureSounds PS100-500P "Pop" tuning; "Balanced" 4.4mm*​​​*PS100-600Ω (93 dB/mW)*​*PureSounds PS100-600Ω (PS100-600) "Classic" tuning; Unbalanced 3.5mm aka "Normal"*​*PureSounds PS100-600S "Pop" tuning; Unbalanced 3.5mm aka "Normal"*​​*PureSounds PS100-600Ω (PS100-600) "Classic" tuning; "Balanced" 2.5mm*​*PureSounds PS100-600S "Pop" tuning; "Balanced" 2.5mm*​​*PureSounds PS100-600Ω (PS100-600) "Classic" tuning; "Balanced" 3.5mm*​*PureSounds PS100-600S "Pop" tuning; "Balanced" 3.5mm*​​*PureSounds PS100-600Ω (PS100-600) "Classic" tuning; "Balanced" 4.4mm*​*PureSounds PS100-600S "Pop" tuning; "Balanced" 4.4mm*​
The "Classic" and "Pop" tuning versions are indicated with a "*Ω*" or a "*C*" and a "*P*" or a "*S"*.

The "Classic" (aka "Classical") version (PS100-500/500C/500Ω/600/600Ω), without the "S-Tuning", are known to be smoother (more mellow and laid-back) with a slight emphasis on the middle to upper mid-range to better capture instruments.

The "Pop" (aka "Vocals") version (PS100-500*P*/600*S)* uses a "P" or a "S" representing PureSounds' dynamic "pop-vocals" tuning system (called "S-Tuning") achieved via an added driver damper which offered a more dynamic presentation and a more detailed (sharper) lower mid-range to better capture vocals.

Really, the only true way to know if it is the "Pop" tuned version ("P" or "S") is by the white-colored serial number bar code sticker that they affix on the back of the box.

For example, the PS100-500 and PS100-600 models, the "Classic" version is indicated as PS100-500*Ω or* PS100-600*Ω *and the "Pop" version as PS100-500*P* or PS100-600*S*... everything else is exactly the same.

PS100-600 examples: "S" or "Pop" Version c2017 (left pic); "Classic" Version c2016 (right pic)


----------



## baskingshark

Feilong4 said:


> Could I get you to measure the diameter of the earpieces? I also just got an earbud today (NiceHCK EBX21) but they don't quite fit me well with the provided foams and silicone rings.
> 
> Also, I've got that album but I've yet to listen to it.  Not sure if it'll sort of spoil or hint at some of the events in the movie.



I initially had a bad fit with the NiceHCK EBX21, but I managed to fix it by using the silicone ring as the internal layer, and I put a full foam over it. So this gives 2 layers and thickens the fitting to rest in the ear. The cable is a bit heavy and tends to yank the earbud out of the ear, but with this double layer mod, no more fit issues for me at least. YMMV though.


----------



## chinmie

WoodyLuvr said:


> Ks K300 Samsara are probably a bit more lively than the smoother balanced (neutral) Puresounds



i concur, the Samsara has more midbass thump and more lively compared to the Puresound and Yinman 600. it's more similar in sound to the Yinman 500, but with slightly more midbass and treble.


----------



## viktor3000 (Mar 11, 2021)

Guys, what do you think to the dance music eurodance, happy hardcore, which is better than ps100-500 Balanced classic with 2.5 to 4.4 adapter or Yinman 600? 

P. S. I really liked the high frequencies of the ps100-260, which are not as prickly as in the ks K300.  And in samsara, by the way, on the contrary, I did not like that there are not very many of them ...


----------



## Feilong4 (Mar 11, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> I initially had a bad fit with the NiceHCK EBX21, but I managed to fix it by using the silicone ring as the internal layer, and I put a full foam over it. So this gives 2 layers and thickens the fitting to rest in the ear. The cable is a bit heavy and tends to yank the earbud out of the ear, but with this double layer mod, no more fit issues for me at least. YMMV though.


Yeah, I've tried different combos and they still aren't fitting me very well. I haven't used earbuds in a long time so this may be normal, but is the earbud supposed to sort of stick out at an angle when placed on the ear? The top part of my ear where the earbud would sit pushes the earbud out so it sits at an angle instead of flat or straight on.

Edit: Actually, after feeling my ears (weird thing to say, I know) but the bottom of the crus part of my ears sorta pushes out the earbuds. My right ear has a more prominent bump which explains why I had a much harder time fitting them into my right ear (or really was unable to). They sound really good with an added bit of pressure by pressing them in to simulate a better fit, but yeah I don't think my ears will allow it unless I go full-on Van Gogh.

I think I'll put them up for sale if anyone's interested.


----------



## mtl171

chinmie said:


> The PS100-500 is really close in sound to the ATH R70X, with slight difference in smaller stage size and a bit more forward mid. Yinman 600 has a more warmer and safer tuning. both have similar level of SQ. it also has a better cable and removable too.


Similar to the R70X sounds right up my alley! I haven't been too happy with the bassy focus of most upper end buds (EM5 is a bit out of budget). Was your comparison refering to the classic or pop version?


WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur with *@chinmie *whom offers great advice when it comes to PureSounds and Yinman.
> 
> One must also note that besides "normal" aka "unbalanced" (3.5mm) and "balanced" (2.5mm) versions of the PS100-500 and PS100-600 PureSounds also offered two (2) different tunings: _*"pop" (vocals)*_ and _*"classic" (classical)*_. Many will say that of any "house sound" tunings these were/are probably the most noticeably different and perhaps also the reason why many have found them not very responsive to EQ (one would even argue that they really don't need it ).  The PS100-500 runs more neutral and depending on the tuning version has an emphasis on mid-vocals or mid-instruments while the PS100-600 is slightly warmer with even deeper sub bass and again with either "classic" or "pop" tuning emphasis in the mids.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the comparison! How would you compare the PS100-600 to the Smabat ST10S black gold? I found the Smabat treble to be piercing when having the mids at a volume I was happy with. I didn't mind the bass much (yay sub bass), though I would like a bit less.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 11, 2021)

mtl171 said:


> Similar to the R70X sounds right up my alley! I haven't been too happy with the bassy focus of most upper end buds (EM5 is a bit out of budget). Was your comparison refering to the classic or pop version?
> 
> Thank you for the comparison! How would you compare the PS100-600 to the Smabat ST10S black gold? I found the Smabat treble to be piercing when having the mids at a volume I was happy with. I didn't mind the bass much (yay sub bass), though I would like a bit less.


I really loved my PureSounds PS100-600S "Pop" earbuds... even though with the more dynamic sounding "S-Tuning" (which made them super fast and exciting) they were still super smooth and very, very easy to listen to for extended listening sessions (we are talking ten plus hours straight here). Absolutely no ear fatigue to speak of what so ever. Super comfortable to boot. They were hands down my favorite buds (a real shame that I mucked them up bad trying to recable )... that is until I got my Ks Titanium Ling 120Ω earbuds .

In comparison to the Smabat ST10S Black Gold the bass on the PS100-600S wasn't as prominent (as in slam & impact) nor as deep (sub-bass mostly) but that was really the only area lacking with them. The treble was sparkling but remained friendly and I am rather sensitive to sibilant and bright sound signatures due to my type of hearing damage.


----------



## feverfive

This freakin' hobby, hahahaha....I started visiting this thread hoping to be inspired to try a cheap'ish (sub-$50) earbud strictly for laptop (tv shows/Youtube vid) use.  I haven't been an earbud user in the past, but all I can say is the old school Apple earbuds have to basically go in my ears sideways, LOL.  I clearly have weird ears.

Anywho, now I'm constantly reading up on sets like the RW-2000 and EBX21.  So much for taking a no-risk dive into the earbuds pool.  I am such a sucker sometimes.


----------



## chinmie

mtl171 said:


> Similar to the R70X sounds right up my alley! I haven't been too happy with the bassy focus of most upper end buds (EM5 is a bit out of budget). Was your comparison refering to the classic or pop version?



I'm using the classic version


----------



## mtl171

WoodyLuvr said:


> I really loved my PureSounds PS100-600S "Pop" earbuds... even though with the more dynamic sounding "S-Tuning" (which made them super fast and exciting) they were still super smooth and very, very easy to listen to for extended listening sessions (we are talking ten plus hours straight here). Absolutely no ear fatigue to speak of what so ever. Super comfortable to boot. They were hands down my favorite buds (a real shame that I mucked them up bad trying to recable )... that is until I got my Ks Titanium Ling 120Ω earbuds .
> 
> In comparison to the Smabat ST10S Black Gold the bass on the PS100-600S wasn't as prominent (as in slam & impact) nor as deep (sub-bass mostly) but that was really the only area lacking with them. The treble was sparkling but remained friendly and I am rather sensitive to sibilant and bright sound signatures due to my type of hearing damage.


Thank you for the comparison! The prominent mids sound really enticing as been looking for a step up from my EQ'ed Datura Pros. Also, where did you pick up your PS100-600S? I only see the PS100-500 available on AE at the moment.


feverfive said:


> This freakin' hobby, hahahaha....I started visiting this thread hoping to be inspired to try a cheap'ish (sub-$50) earbud strictly for laptop (tv shows/Youtube vid) use.  I haven't been an earbud user in the past, but all I can say is the old school Apple earbuds have to basically go in my ears sideways, LOL.  I clearly have weird ears.
> 
> Anywho, now I'm constantly reading up on sets like the RW-2000 and EBX21.  So much for taking a no-risk dive into the earbuds pool.  I am such a sucker sometimes.


Its a slippery slope aint it  I remember when I was hesitant to spend more then $20 on a pair of buds  


chinmie said:


> I'm using the classic version


Got it. Thanks! I'm intrigued to hear that they sounded so neutral.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 13, 2021)

mtl171 said:


> Also, where did you pick up your PS100-600S? I only see the PS100-500 available on AE at the moment.


Unfortunately, all the PureSounds earbud models were discontinued sometime late 2017/early 2018   and what remains is unsold stock (New Old Stock).

After hearing a few different PureSounds earbud models at a mobile audiophile meet-up in mid-2018 I was beyond stunned by their awesome sound (most especially the 600S "Pop" tuning Version) but sadly found that I was too late to the game as I could not find them anywhere to buy. Later in December 2008, by a stroke of luck, I was offered a pair (by a member of this thread) on a trade.

The PS100-500 "Classic" and "Pop" models you see offered on AliExpress are sometimes indicated with a "C" or a "P". 

Really, the only true way to know if it is the "P" or "S" version is by the white-colored serial number bar code sticker that they affix on the back of the box.

For example, on the PS100-500 and PS100-600 the "Classic" version is indicated as PS100-500*Ω or* PS100-600*Ω *whereas the "Pop" version is listed as PS100-500*P* or PS100-600*S*... everything else is exactly the same.

PS100-600 examples: "S" or "Pop" Version c2017 (left pic); "Classic" Version c2016 (right pic)


----------



## wskl

I finally found a way to get a comfy fit for my NiceHCK ME80, I used the ear hooks which came with my K's LBB, the material is extremely soft, it has the feel and texture of gummy candy and they do lift off the weight of the earbud from my ears.


----------



## 40760 (Mar 12, 2021)

Thanks to you guys for making the Puresounds PS100 500ohms sound so interesting. Now, should it be "pop" or "classic"?  

Anyone know if the 2 versions make them different sounding earbuds or just a slight tuning variation for the different tastes?


----------



## baskingshark

I had the opportunity to audition a Fiio EM5 today at a local audio shop.

Very good set in terms of sound. Great organic timbre and superb technicalities. Wide soundstage. Very balanced tuning with good midbass slam, and it isn't as rolled off in the subbass as most other earbuds. Though it won't beat the SMABAT series in the subbass department (in terms of subbass extension/quantity). Mids are forward but not harsh/shouty, treble quite well extended for a earbud.

The EM5 seems to be warmer than the NiceHCK EBX21 and has a slightly thicker note weight. Technicalities between these 2 earbud behemoths are very close.

But the big elephant in the room is the fit. I thought that the NiceHCK EBX21 was bad in fit, the Fiio EM5 is worse for me, it kept dropping out of my ears even with thickening the fit with foam. But YMMV as we have different ear anatomies. The cable is non detachable too, so that loses points in my book (the rep kept harping that the EM5 has some interchangable modular plugs at the end to incorporate different balanced/unbalanced terminations, but I rather have the option of using different aftermarket cables and even BT adapters with a detachable earbud). This summitFI earbud is one awkward yank away from being a white elephant, if the proximal non detachable cable dies, who cares about the distal modular changable plugs?

The EM5 is also very expensive (for a earbud), and diminishing returns exist compared to the budget earbuids. So I would suggest for those that wanna get EM5, best audition first if possible, as the fit may be iffy, and as @palestofwhite had also experienced multiple QC problems. Or second option is buy from somewhere where u can return it (eg Amazon), just in case the fit is not suitable. IMHO, it is no point having a heavenly sounding set, but it don't fit well and you don't get the optimal sound.


----------



## 40760

baskingshark said:


> I had the opportunity to audition a Fiio EM5 today at a local audio shop.
> 
> Very good set in terms of sound. Great organic timbre and superb technicalities. Wide soundstage. Very balanced tuning with good midbass slam, and it isn't as rolled off in the subbass as most other earbuds. Though it won't beat the SMABAT series in the subbass department (in terms of subbass extension/quantity). Mids are forward but not harsh/shouty, treble quite well extended for a earbud.
> 
> ...



I can see why fit was a problem as mentioned before, though my ears played pretty well with them when I had them. The majority of problems I experienced were usually related to the cable and the interchangeable plugs could be the main culprit and a point of failure down the road. That being said, I still feel they should be priced much lower, perhaps in the range of the RW-2000.

I will take the RW-2000 any day for its built and better accessories. I have since also let go of the Sun Dice due the heavy weight and Dendroaspis Viridis. The Toneking is actually really good for classical, jazz or vocals if you are into those, but I could not deal with the lack of of low ends.


----------



## RikudouGoku

palestofwhite said:


> I can see why fit was a problem as mentioned before, though my ears played pretty well with them when I had them. The majority of problems I experienced were usually related to the cable and the interchangeable plugs could be the main culprit and a point of failure down the road. That being said, I still feel they should be priced much lower, perhaps in the range of the RW-2000.
> 
> I will take the RW-2000 any day for its built and better accessories. I have since also let go of the Sun Dice due the heavy weight and Dendroaspis Viridis. The Toneking is actually really good for classical, jazz or vocals if you are into those, but I could not deal with the lack of of low ends.


How does the RW-2000 bass compare to the EM5? You have both If I remember correctly.


----------



## 40760

RikudouGoku said:


> How does the RW-2000 bass compare to the EM5? You have both If I remember correctly.



EM5 has the upper hand in bass department, both in quantity and quality. Perhaps one of the best in any earbuds I tried.

But that is not to say RW-2000's bass is not good. I prefer the RW-2000 because the overall sound is smoother and not as shouty as the EM5.


----------



## viktor3000

Guys, I really liked the sound of ps 100-260. I don't know what to choose and buy ps 100-500 balanced classic or yinman600?


----------



## mtl171

viktor3000 said:


> Guys, I really liked the sound of ps 100-260. I don't know what to choose and buy ps 100-500 balanced classic or yinman600?


Both 


WoodyLuvr said:


> Unfortunately, all the PureSounds earbud models were discontinued sometime late 2017/early 2018   and what remains is unsold stock (New Old Stock).
> 
> After hearing a few different PureSounds earbud models at a mobile audiophile meet-up in mid-2018 I was beyond stunned by their awesome sound (most especially the 600S "Pop" and "Classic" versions) but sadly found that I was too late to the game as I could not find them anywhere to buy. Later in December 2008, by a stroke of luck, I was offered a pair (by a member of this thread) on a trade.
> 
> ...


Darn. Thats a real shame. I'm almost afraid I'd purchase it, like it lots then have the cable fail, and not be able to score a replacement D: Thanks for all your information!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 13, 2021)

viktor3000 said:


> Guys, I really liked the sound of ps 100-260. I don't know what to choose and buy ps 100-500 balanced classic or yinman600?


Just to be super clear: PureSounds PS100-260 *≠* Yinman 600 or even PureSounds PS100-500. They are completely different sound signatures... so far from being similar to your PureSounds PS100-260.

Also, the Yinman 600 and PureSounds PS100-500 are actually a challenge to drive from a mobile source and usually requires an amp being 600Ω @ 95 dB/mW (Yinman) and 500Ω @ 95-96 dB/mW! (PureSounds). For reference your PureSounds PS100-260 are/were much easier to drive from a mobile source being only 260Ω @ 102 dB/mW.

Again I must iterate, the Yinman 600 earbuds are the second hardest pair of earbuds to drive that I know of after the PureSounds PS100-600 (600Ω @ 93 dB/mW!).

With that all said and understood, I think many of us would recommend the Yinman 600 between the two as the PureSounds PS100-500 earbuds are a discontinued product and no longer supported (_it appears that a 12-month warranty is still available via PureSounds' Official Store on Taobao for discontinued production clearance stock --- see link below in the next post by _*@palestofwhite*) whereas the Yinman 600 are and they have detachable cables which many members on this thread prefer.


----------



## 40760 (Mar 12, 2021)

mtl171 said:


> Both
> 
> Darn. Thats a real shame. I'm almost afraid I'd purchase it, like it lots then have the cable fail, and not be able to score a replacement D: Thanks for all your information!



It seems that they have a shop on Taobao, but you'll need to be able to read or purchase from there.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

palestofwhite said:


> It seems that they have a shop on Taobao, but you'll need to be able to read or purchase from there.


Nice find there mate! Even though all the earbuds are unsold stock (new old stock) they are offering a 12-month warranty which I say is pretty fair for a discontinued earbud!

*"Discontinued production and warehouse clearance, warranty for 12 months, maintenance after sale..."*​
*@viktor3000 *
There appears to be two (2) remaining PS100-260s! You may be in luck.


----------



## 40760 (Mar 12, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Nice find there mate! Even though all the earbuds are unsold stock (new old stock) they are offering a 12-month warranty which I say is pretty fair for a discontinued earbud!
> 
> *"Discontinued production and warehouse clearance, warranty for 12 months, maintenance after sale..."*​
> *@viktor3000 *
> There appears to be two (2) remaining PS100-260s! You may be in luck.



I'm really tempted to get the 600S in 4.4mm.  Anyway I will be receiving the K's 300 Samsara next week, so I don't know if I really need another high impedance pair or if the 600S are drastically better?


----------



## Victory112

Hello earbud people. I really like the Smabat ST-10s Black Gold and would like to know if other owners of them feel like the given foams/silicon kind of hold the sound back. The foam darkens/muffles the sound and the silicon makes the sound brighter but also more narrow. I haven't tried them without covers yet, I should probably do that...but I do also wanna know what y'all use to make the ST-10s sound just right, in your opinion.


----------



## baskingshark

Victory112 said:


> Hello earbud people. I really like the Smabat ST-10s Black Gold and would like to know if other owners of them feel like the given foams/silicon kind of hold the sound back. The foam darkens/muffles the sound and the silicon makes the sound brighter but also more narrow. I haven't tried them without covers yet, I should probably do that...but I do also wanna know what y'all use to make the ST-10s sound just right, in your opinion.



I use full foams with them. Yeah agree the full foams do muffle the sound and clarity a tinge. But without foams, the 3 kHz area is a bit too sharp for me.

Silicone rings as you say make the sound brighter.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 13, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> I'm really tempted to get the 600 in 4.4mm, but not sure with or without S. Actually they do look like they come with quality cables, so I'm not so afraid of them failing?


I have heard the following versions (variants) of the PureSounds PS100-600:

PS100-600 3.5 Unbalanced "Classic"​PS100-600 2.5 Balanced "Classic"​PS100-600S 2.5 Balanced "Pop" (_I ended up owning a pair of these_)​
To my ears there wasn't a huge difference between "tuning" ("Classic" vs "Pop"). The mids are slightly more forward on the "Pop - Vocal" aka "S" version (just noticeably so in the lower to middle range, nothing too extreme though). I found that the "S" sounded the best with ambient electronica which usually has a lot of soft details in the lower mids. The "Classic" tuning/version focuses more on the middle to upper range to capture the timbre of a lot of instruments so is definitely better tuned for classical and/or acoustic music in my opinion.

I would definitely be mulling over a pair myself again if it wasn't for the fact that I now have the Ks Bell-Ti 120Ω which have easily replaced the PureSounds for me.


----------



## Victory112

baskingshark said:


> I use full foams with them. Yeah agree the full foams do muffle the sound and clarity a tinge. But without foams, the 3 kHz area is a bit too sharp for me.
> 
> Silicone rings as you say make the sound brighter.


Oh right I should mention that I'm currently using the donut foams. They're in the middle ground for me between the foams and the silicones, and I think trimming off just enough to uncover more of the driver while still maintaining grip/seal in my ears would make the sound perfect for me, though I'm a bit concerned to cut such nice foam up without getting a backup. I think years of playing violin have made me a bit of a treblehead, but the Smabat bass is pretty sweet, too.


----------



## 40760

WoodyLuvr said:


> I have heard the following versions (variants) of the PS100-600:
> 
> PS100-600 3.5 Unbalanced "Classic"​PS100-600 2.5 Balanced "Classic"​PS100-600S 2.5 Balanced "Pop" (_I ended up owning a pair of these_)​
> To my ears there wasn't a huge difference between "tuning" ("Classic" vs "Pop"). The mids are slightly more forward on the "S" aka "Pop - Vocal" version (just noticeably so in the lower to middle range, nothing too extreme though). I found that the "S" sounded the best with ambient electronica which usually has a lot of soft details in the lower mids. The "Classic" tuning/version focuses more on the middle to upper range to capture the timbre of a lot of instruments so is definitely better tuned for classical and/or acoustic music in my opinion.
> ...



Thanks for sharing! I guess I'll take some time to think over, since the Bell-Ti 120ohms is on my list and getting the PureSounds 600S will only eat into the funds.


----------



## wskl

Victory112 said:


> Oh right I should mention that I'm currently using the donut foams. They're in the middle ground for me between the foams and the silicones, and I think trimming off just enough to uncover more of the driver while still maintaining grip/seal in my ears would make the sound perfect for me, though I'm a bit concerned to cut such nice foam up without getting a backup. I think years of playing violin have made me a bit of a treblehead, but the Smabat bass is pretty sweet, too.



You may want to buy a set of Hiegi donuts (left), they have a larger hole than standard donuts (right).


----------



## WoodyLuvr

palestofwhite said:


> Thanks for sharing! I guess I'll take some time to think over, since the Bell-Ti 120ohms is on my list and getting the PureSounds 600S will only eat into the funds.


Definitely would recommend that you put those funds towards either the Ks Bell-Ti 120 or Ks Blue Bell. I loved my PureSounds but the Ks have nearly surpassed everything now in my opinion... most especially in the comfort and long listening departments.


----------



## G777

I just ordered the Nickhck DIY MX500. Does it sound best with or without foams? I have trouble getting a comfortable fit for earbuds without foams.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

baskingshark said:


> I use full foams with them. Yeah agree the full foams do muffle the sound and clarity a tinge. But without foams, the 3 kHz area is a bit too sharp for me.
> 
> Silicone rings as you say make the sound brighter.


Concur; the same with me. I need the full foam to tame that sibilance. Silicon rings and even foam donuts are a no-go for me.


wskl said:


> You may want to buy a set of Hiegi donuts (left), they have a larger hole than standard donuts (right).


A great suggestion for @Victory112; unfortunately, my ears would hate me! That would be way to bright for my tastes LOL!


----------



## 40760

WoodyLuvr said:


> Definitely would recommend that you put those funds towards either the Ks Bell-Ti 120 or Ks Blue Bell. I loved my PureSounds but the Ks have nearly surpassed everything now in my opinion... most especially in the comfort and long listening departments.



I guess I'll just have to stop buying anything for some time. The K's 300 Samsara should arrive next week and that will be the last for a while.


----------



## jao29

Really enjoying my time with the smabat m2 pro. Is the smabat st-10s silver (40ohm)  an upgrade over the m2 pro? I also installed the second filter (v shaped sound sig) on the m2 pro and Iam very happy with the sound. Will the st-10s silver be a noticeable upgrade? Or more of a sidegrade?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

jao29 said:


> Really enjoying my time with the smabat m2 pro. Is the smabat st-10s silver (40ohm)  an upgrade over the m2 pro? I also installed the second filter (v shaped sound sig) on the m2 pro and Iam very happy with the sound. Will the st-10s silver be a noticeable upgrade? Or more of a sidegrade?


You might consider waiting for the soon to be released Smabat M3 that will offer a solderless interchangeable driver.


----------



## jao29

WoodyLuvr said:


> You might consider waiting for the soon to be released Smabat M3 that will offer a solderless interchangeable driver.


Do you know when the M3 will be released?


----------



## Danny23

Are you guys using full or donut foams with your Yincrow X6? Mine only came with full foams so wondering how they would sound with donuts? And if they sound better with donuts if I can just order any cheap pair off eBay?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 13, 2021)

Danny23 said:


> Are you guys using full or donut foams with your Yincrow X6? Mine only came with full foams so wondering how they would sound with donuts? And if they sound better with donuts if I can just order any cheap pair off eBay?


Can't go wrong with a Hiegi Donut!


----------



## mtl171

palestofwhite said:


> It seems that they have a shop on Taobao, but you'll need to be able to read or purchase from there.


Tempting! I'm still a bit nervous about cable failure. I've never had a nonreplacable cable fail on me (knock on wood), though anything over >$50 makes me a bit more nervous. Completely forgot about taobao though, so I do appreciate the link!


Victory112 said:


> Hello earbud people. I really like the Smabat ST-10s Black Gold and would like to know if other owners of them feel like the given foams/silicon kind of hold the sound back. The foam darkens/muffles the sound and the silicon makes the sound brighter but also more narrow. I haven't tried them without covers yet, I should probably do that...but I do also wanna know what y'all use to make the ST-10s sound just right, in your opinion.


I find without foams, its unbearable to listen to due to the ~4khz spike (and this is coming from a self declared treble/mids head who EQed more treble into his etymotics). Something about the way they were tuned is super wonky (with the upper mids/lower treble spike) making it the only transducer that sounds worse (without distortion) when I crank the volume (from mid 60s to mid 70s db).

I'm currently running donuts over full foams for extra seal so I can have run at a lower listening volume without feeling anything is missing too much (now they just sound warm instead of more warm V shaped). I did wonder if the foams affected the sound due to the inconsistent thickness and not too circular cut out, though I don't notice any change aside from FR tbh.



WoodyLuvr said:


> Definitely would recommend that you put those funds towards either the Ks Bell-Ti 120 or Ks Blue Bell. I loved my PureSounds but the Ks have nearly surpassed everything now in my opinion... most especially in the comfort and long listening departments.


Can you describe how those two sound? I'm still abit shocked that even with the prices on AE, there still isnt even a courtesy FR chart.


WoodyLuvr said:


> Hiegi Donut


Link appears to be dead unfortunately. I did find some listed on AE from penon. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32642830876.html


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 23, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Definitely would recommend that you put those funds towards either the Ks Bell-Ti 120 or Ks Blue Bell. I loved my PureSounds but the Ks have nearly surpassed everything now in my opinion... most especially in the comfort and long listening departments.





mtl171 said:


> Can you describe how those two sound? I'm still abit shocked that even with the prices on AE, there still isnt even a courtesy FR chart.


The Bell-Ti 120 is a very balanced and neutral *(After further listening it is rather unbalanced and mid-forward)* earbud with an extremely ear friendly sound signature that is warm.  The Blue Bell is much more livelier (exciting) with extended treble similar to the Moondrop Chaconne; very close to the Old School Ksearphone house sound. *Here *is a recent post I posted and *here* is another good one by @ClieOS.


----------



## Feilong4

If anyone's interested, I'm selling a NiceHCK EBX21 here: https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/nicehck-ebx21-flagship-earbuds-3-5mm-termination.502/

Like-new. My first foray back into earbuds, but I couldn't get a good fit.


----------



## FranQL

WoodyLuvr said:


> Can't go wrong with a Hiegi Donut!


Please if you have a link for a purchase?


----------



## FranQL

WoodyLuvr said:


> The Bell-Ti 120 is a very balanced and neutral earbud with an extremely ear friendly sound signature that is warm.  The Blue Bell is much more livelier (exciting) with extended treble similar to the Moondrop Chaconne; very close to the Old School Ksearphone house sound. *Here *is a recent post I posted and *here* is another good one by @ClieOS.


The only problem I see is that the price is very high.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

FranQL said:


> Please if you have a link for a purchase?


I usually buy mine from *Penon Audio*. What internet shopping site do you use in España (EU)?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

FranQL said:


> The only problem I see is that the price is very high.


True, but most (if not all) prices you see on AliExpress and Taobao are negotiable. I have never ever paid listed price. If you are patient and willing to dicker, fairly and realistically, you can secure some amazing deals via chat with the stores/shops.


----------



## FranQL

WoodyLuvr said:


> I usually buy mine from *Penon Audio*. What internet shopping site do you use in España (EU)?


I normally buy from Aliexpress, but I use amazon too. In Amazon Spain there is a smaller offer of ear pads and other audiophile products.


----------



## FranQL

WoodyLuvr said:


> True, but most (if not all) prices you see on AliExpress and Taobao are negotiable. I have never ever paid listed price. If you are patient and willing to dicker, fairly and realistically, you can secure some amazing deals via chat with the stores/shops.



It is true, yesterday turandot for example was at € 130, which is a good price. These KBs are only in a couple of Aliexpress stores. But it is true that they only speak well of them, so I take it for granted that they have to be a quality product. In my case, when these prices are, I do not buy, it is a very risky blind purchase, even knowing that LBB is a good fit for me, but € 30 is acceptable in case of a wrong purchase.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 14, 2021)

Another cool pic from Wong @ https://www.instagram.com/p/CMUBJkir67S/

*Blur 173 MX32* earbuds via the godfather of USB DAC/Amps the Resonessence Labs Herus (c2014 version)


----------



## cqtek

Hello to all of you.

Here are my impressions of the NiceHCK EBX21.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-ebx21.24985/reviews#review-25490



When I do a review, I try to shield myself from other comments, to try not to be biased. 
But after reading the good reviews from @RikudouGoku and @Dsnuts, it seems that I have been able to contribute little new, as I seem to agree with many of their appreciations.
Well, at least you can see some new pictures...


----------



## profusion

How Openheart Earbuds compare to Moondrop Nameless, does anyone knows?


----------



## Feilong4 (Mar 14, 2021)

I was able to find a solution to my fit issues with the EBX21.



What you're looking at is a "DIY-mold" made of blu-tack and cotton that I've pulled a part.

So I loosen apart a bit of cotton from sheets I had laying around, rolled up a ball of blu-tack, and then covered the ball of blu-tack in the cotton. I first put the earbuds in and then mold/press the blu-tack into the cavity of my ears. I mean, pretty much the fit complaints I had are no more and so I'm able to get a much more fuller and balanced sound than before.

This is so stupid that it worked but I'm so happy that it did.

Edit: I should mention I got the idea from a buddy who suggested swimmer's putty. I was too lazy to go out and I have a lot of blu-tack on hand so I thought I'd experiment.


----------



## Commando Lambo (Mar 18, 2021)

Hey everyone, I purchased the Yinman 600 off Aliexpress a while ago and the package just arrived. Whilst everything looked right the buds themselves can be pushed to loud volumes off my phone easily, i'd estimate their impedance is actually lower than my rw-1000. Am I missing something or did I just get sent the wrong product. Really bummed out because I bought these for their high impedance.
https://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot...rderId=8125974489912931&productId=32978157256
Edit: this was my mistake, no problem with the phones


----------



## 40760 (Mar 15, 2021)

I received the K's 300 Samsara today, without a retail box and just placed in a zip lock bag along with a leather cable wrap.

Seller claims that will be how these will be shipped these days.


----------



## digititus

Feilong4 said:


> I was able to find a solution to my fit issues with the EBX21.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If it works, then great! Have you tried ear hooks for a slightly more elegant solution?


----------



## 40760

Feilong4 said:


> I should mention I got the idea from a buddy who suggested swimmer's putty. I was too lazy to go out and I have a lot of blu-tack on hand so I thought I'd experiment.



You could try some Sugru moldable glue to make them into "custom earmolds" for your earbuds.


----------



## iMongui

palestofwhite said:


> You could try some Sugru moldable glue to make them into "custom earmolds" for your earbuds.


I found it on Amazon for a reasonable price. Do you think that its safe to put that inside of your ear to have an ear mold ? im thinking seriously about it because it would be great for the earbuds


----------



## 40760 (Mar 15, 2021)

iMongui said:


> I found it on Amazon for a reasonable price. Do you think that its safe to put that inside of your ear to have an ear mold ? im thinking seriously about it because it would be great for the earbuds



If you google "Sugru ear mold" you will get some interesting results. Maybe don't do too deep of an insertion if you're afraid of it lodging in your ears?

There are even tutorials to create your own "Mandarines Symbio" style tips with just Sugru and regular silicone tips.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Commando Lambo said:


> Hey everyone, I purchased the Yinman 600 off Aliexpress a while ago and the package just arrived. Whilst everything looked right the buds themselves can be pushed to loud volumes off my phone easily, i'd estimate their impedance is actually lower than my rw-1000. Am I missing something or did I just get sent the wrong product. Really bummed out because I bought these for their high impedance.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot...rderId=8125974489912931&productId=32978157256


That link comes up with a page error; please check and resend again.


----------



## rprodrigues (Mar 15, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> I received the K's 300 Samsara today, without a retail box and just placed in a zip lock bag along with a leather cable wrap.
> 
> Seller claims that will be how these will be shipped these days.



How does it compare to RW2000 and LBBS?


----------



## Commando Lambo

WoodyLuvr said:


> That link comes up with a page error; please check and resend again.


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32978157256.html?spm=a2g0s.12269583.0.0.431f4c75d4iz2m
sorry hope this works
Just the yinman 600 on the AVCKCK aliexpress store


----------



## 40760

rprodrigues said:


> How does it compare to RW2000 and LBBS?



If you want the huge "headphone-like" experience then it will be the K's 300 Samsara. It sounds a lot warmer and is more low end dominant than RW-2000.

The RW-2000 still wins in terms of technicality with a smooth and balanced TOTL signature. It is amazing what this super low impedance pair of earbuds can accomplish.


----------



## rprodrigues

palestofwhite said:


> If you want the huge "headphone-like" experience then it will be the K's 300 Samsara. It sounds a lot warmer and is more low end dominant than RW-2000.
> 
> The RW-2000 still wins in terms of technicality with a smooth and balanced TOTL signature. It is amazing what this super low impedance pair of earbuds can accomplish.



I own the budge k300 version (non Samsara). I like it but I'm sure Samsara is on another league due to the price gap ($130 against $16).

I've just ordered the RW-2000. The LBBS is already on its way home.

Thank you!


----------



## 40760

rprodrigues said:


> I own the budge k300 version (non Samsara). I like it but I'm sure Samsara is on another league due to the price gap ($130 against $16).
> 
> I've just ordered the RW-2000. The LBBS is already on its way home.
> 
> Thank you!



The Samsara is K's older tuning which is warmer and closer something like the Zen 2.0. The LBBS on the other hand should be more in-line with the newer sound of their Bell-Ti series.

RW-2000 on the other hand is the best one out of all the earbuds I recently picked up. I really like it and sincerely feel the price to performance is great. I'm also looking forward to the day I pick up the Bell-Ti 120ohms.


----------



## Feilong4

digititus said:


> If it works, then great! Have you tried ear hooks for a slightly more elegant solution?


I haven't though mostly because I worry that they won't work for me or increase the diameter of the buds.


palestofwhite said:


> You could try some Sugru moldable glue to make them into "custom earmolds" for your earbuds.


Do they keep their shape well? Seems like a good option if they do.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 15, 2021)

Commando Lambo said:


> Hey everyone, I purchased the Yinman 600 off Aliexpress a while ago and the package just arrived. Whilst everything looked right the buds themselves can be pushed to loud volumes off my phone easily, i'd estimate their impedance is actually lower than my rw-1000. Am I missing something or did I just get sent the wrong product. Really bummed out because I bought these for their high impedance.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot...rderId=8125974489912931&productId=32978157256





Commando Lambo said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32978157256.html?spm=a2g0s.12269583.0.0.431f4c75d4iz2m
> sorry hope this works
> Just the yinman 600 on the AVCKCK aliexpress store


That store is well known... though I have never ordered from there personally. They appear to be the real deal.

*@Alex.Grimm* (our resident Yinman 600 expert) would you please kindly elaborate and/or offer your opinion and expertise on this good sir.

So 90 db Peak SPL can be reached on the Yinman 600 earbuds (600 ohms @ 95 dB/mW) with only 0.4356 Volts which is doable by most all mobile devices and smartphones... and although 90dB may be loud it most likely may not be capturing all the peaks of your music correctly (depending on how dynamic the music you listen to is of course). If you listen at an average SPL of 65 to 80 dB that only leaves 10 to 25 dB of headroom to reproduce the peaks... bass/sub-bass depth and detail may also suffer considerably.

However, to reach a favorable 110 dB Peak SPL, the Yinman 600 require 4.3559 Volts / 7.26 mAmps!!! No mobile device will provide this kind of power unfortunately. If you listen at an average SPL of 65 to 80 dB with 4.3559 Volts then you have anywhere from 30 to 45 dB of headroom for your most dynamic music files and the bass will be reproduced fully with full punch.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Mar 15, 2021)

Commando Lambo said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32978157256.html?spm=a2g0s.12269583.0.0.431f4c75d4iz2m
> sorry hope this works
> Just the yinman 600 on the AVCKCK aliexpress store


The Yinman 600 excellent earbuds for those who like dark, driving, bass sound, but how much life and air there is in them - you don't notice any shortcomings. After that, I did not take my Willsound MK2 and Yincrow X6 out of the box for a long time.

The cheapest device that can drive them so that they sound normally is the USB DAC E1DA 9038S Gen3 2.5mm, for this you need a 2.5mm MMCX cable.
The next device in the price that can give them the sound to enjoy is the dap Hiby R5 (4.4mm, high gain);
Hiby R6Pro (4.4mm, high gain), iBasso DX160 (4.4mm, high gain)... Fiio M11/Pro, Shanling M6/Pro... Dethonray DTR-1 (3.5mm, high gain), QLS QA361 (3.5mm, high gain)... This is a large list of devices, you need a powerful dap or amp.
AMP: Fiio A5 (3.5mm, high gain)...

I'm not sure that these sources fully reveal them, but you can already enjoy the sound enough.

One person wrote that they sound even better than daps from the Onkyo system


Spoiler


----------



## Memoryerror

iMongui said:


> I found it on Amazon for a reasonable price. Do you think that its safe to put that inside of your ear to have an ear mold ? im thinking seriously about it because it would be great for the earbuds


You can get a Sugru Skin-Friendly version.  It will take longer to dry than the Radians moldable earplugs to dry.  I recommend covering your earbuds with the tip of rubber glove fingers to protect your earbuds.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Alex.Grimm said:


> One person wrote that they sound even better than daps from the Onkyo system


Ahhhh... the good ole' circa 1988* ONKYO Integra A-701XD/XG Integrated DAC/Amp* (18-Bit). Not surprising to hear that as the headphone output impedance is probably as high as 100 ohms (?) which would play nicely with high impedance earbuds such as the Yinman 600.


----------



## Sam L

Danny23 said:


> Are you guys using full or donut foams with your Yincrow X6? Mine only came with full foams so wondering how they would sound with donuts? And if they sound better with donuts if I can just order any cheap pair off eBay?


For anyone considering donuts, I recommend getting something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/OWDEN-Professional-6Pcs-Leather-Hollow/dp/B07ZFF143H

Comes with its own mini cutting board and does not require any percussive force, just twist the punch over the foam. Cuts a nice and clean hole.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 16, 2021)

Did everyone see *@ClieOS* most recent planar magnetic earbud build *here*? An extraordinary DIY earbud to say the very least. Mad DIY skills... beyond impressive.


----------



## JPardo

A couple of days ago I was doing some tests with the microphones that incorporate several of my headphones, earbuds and iems.  This is a secondary aspect when we are looking for a good sound but sometimes it is very useful when used from the mobile.  I tested the 1MORE 1008, Nicehck B40, FiiO F9, Hifiman RE-400i, EarPods, Sennheiser momentum 2 and Meze 99 Neo, all through the lightning adapter connected to my mobile.  All of them, to a greater or lesser extent, sound good, but to my surprise, the one with the best result in terms of voice quality and low noise is the B40.  Considering its price is impressive.  Have any of you done this test with your earbuds?  In your opinion, which one offers the best microphone?


----------



## FranQL (Mar 16, 2021)

JPardo said:


> A couple of days ago I was doing some tests with the microphones that incorporate several of my headphones, earbuds and iems.  This is a secondary aspect when we are looking for a good sound but sometimes it is very useful when used from the mobile.  I tested the 1MORE 1008, Nicehck B40, FiiO F9, Hifiman RE-400i, EarPods, Sennheiser momentum 2 and Meze 99 Neo, all through the lightning adapter connected to my mobile.  All of them, to a greater or lesser extent, sound good, but to my surprise, the one with the best result in terms of voice quality and low noise is the B40.  Considering its price is impressive.  Have any of you done this test with your earbuds?  In your opinion, which one offers the best microphone?


Normally for microphone I use plantronics voyager or jabra elite active 65t. In PC occasionally Logitech G433.

when I use headphones / iem and need to take calls I use the microphone of fiio BTR3k


----------



## 40760

Is the PureSounds PS100 at 500/600ohms exponentially harder to drive than 300ohm earbuds, for something like an iFi ZEN DAC?  Also, are the improvements of the 600S over the 500P worth spending 60% more? 

I know I should be saving up for the Bell-Ti, but I keep getting drawn to the idea of trying some really high impedance earbuds just to get a taste of it. The highest I've went were the Zen 2.0 at 320ohms.


----------



## baskingshark

palestofwhite said:


> Is the PureSounds PS100 at 500/600ohms exponentially harder to drive than 300ohm earbuds, for something like an iFi ZEN DAC?  Also, are the improvements of the 600S over the 500P worth spending 60% more?
> 
> I know I should be saving up for the Bell-Ti, but I keep getting drawn to the idea of trying some really high impedance earbuds just to get a taste of it. The highest I've went were the Zen 2.0 at 320ohms.



I think other than actual impedance value, one must also look at the sensitivity values, they go hand in hand when it comes to drivability of an audio gear.


----------



## 40760

baskingshark said:


> I think other than actual impedance value, one must also look at the sensitivity values, they go hand in hand when it comes to drivability of an audio gear.


Unfortunately, I'm not very well versed with those numbers and calculations as well...  

I was hoping someone who tried them can actually share some info before I decide if I want to purchase.


----------



## noknok23

palestofwhite said:


> Unfortunately, I'm not very well versed with those numbers and calculations as well...
> 
> I was hoping someone who tried them can actually share some info before I decide if I want to purchase.


Personally having experimented with various type of sources, I think it’s more about quality than quantity.

 I’m using the Apple dongle (non-European version) to drive the ps600 and it sound as good or better than nuansa A1 amp and better than cheapo zishan z2 to me. Also better than with meizu pro dongle even though it’s much less powerful. It’s just a better pairing overall in term of timbre and staging from all the sources I have. And I don’t notice any drawback in terms of dynamics, resolution, etc.

i have the regular ps600. It’s perhaps my favorite and could be endgame if the cable wasn’t so fragile but I haven’t heard the latest TOTLs


----------



## 40760

noknok23 said:


> Personally having experimented with various type of sources, I think it’s more about quality than quantity.
> 
> I’m using the Apple dongle (non-European version) to drive the ps600 and it sound as good or better than nuansa A1 amp and better than cheapo zishan z2 to me. Also better than with meizu pro dongle even though it’s much less powerful. It’s just a better pairing overall in term of timbre and staging from all the sources I have. And I don’t notice any drawback in terms of dynamics, resolution, etc.
> 
> i have the regular ps600. It’s perhaps my favorite and could be endgame if the cable wasn’t so fragile but I haven’t heard the latest TOTLs


That is quite reassuring to hear, then I think my equipment should be adequate to handle them decently.

I see that there are different options of cables for this model. Are yours the braided dark copper colored ones or the original single thin dark grey kind?

I think now it also comes in black braided cable as the standard version, and 2 different core options for the upgraded dark braided copper.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 17, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> I think other than actual impedance value, one must also look at the sensitivity values, they go hand in hand when it comes to drivability of an audio gear.


This! Sensitivity is incredibly important. The PureSounds PS100-500/600 are both well under 100dB/mW which means they are not sensitive. Though being @ 95-96 dB/mW (PS100-500) and 93dB/mW (PS100-600) they are not as difficult to drive (sensitivity-wise) like some other well headphones the AKG K-1000 (120Ω @ 74 dB/mW); HiFiMAN HE-6 (50Ω @ 77.5/83.5 dB/mW); or the HiFiMAN HE-560 (45Ω @ 86 dB/mW).



noknok23 said:


> Personally having experimented with various type of sources, I think it’s more about quality than quantity.
> 
> I’m using the Apple dongle (non-European version) to drive the ps600 and it sound as good or better than nuansa A1 amp and better than cheapo zishan z2 to me. Also better than with meizu pro dongle even though it’s much less powerful. It’s just a better pairing overall in term of timbre and staging from all the sources I have. And I don’t notice any drawback in terms of dynamics, resolution, etc.


Concur; a little experimentation is a must to find the best setup for any headphone and most especially one's ears.



palestofwhite said:


> Is the PureSounds PS100 at 500/600ohms exponentially harder to drive than 300ohm earbuds, for something like an iFi ZEN DAC?  Also, are the improvements of the 600S over the 500P worth spending 60% more?
> 
> I know I should be saving up for the Bell-Ti, but I keep getting drawn to the idea of trying some really high impedance earbuds just to get a taste of it. The highest I've went were the Zen 2.0 at 320ohms.


Maybe you should consider the Yinman 600 as it has been so highly recommended by many (more so than the PureSounds) and is currently priced at a steal.



palestofwhite said:


> Unfortunately, I'm not very well versed with those numbers and calculations as well...
> 
> I was hoping someone who tried them can actually share some info before I decide if I want to purchase.


There is an ever so slight difference between the PS100-500 and the PS100-600 sound signature wise whither the "Classic" or "Pop". I would say that the bass and sub-bass is deeper and more detailed on the PS100-600 with the overall sound, though equally neutral, more smooth and relaxed. I am extremely sensitive to treble (I avoid bright and sibilant sound signatures like the plague) so I might have liked the smoother more relaxed sound of the PS100-600.

Drivability, yes! Make no mistake the PS100-600 is harder to drive than the PS100-500.

For example to reach a Peak (Target) SPL of 110 dB/SPL at loud listening levels... the PS100-500 will need 3.5V @ 7mA whereas the PS100-600 will require 5.5V @ 9.1 mA!



 




At Peak (Target) SPL of 90db for low listening levels


 




Now with all this said it really varies between individuals if they hear the difference between higher and lower impedances once the volume is matched. I myself, with my type of hearing damage, can not really hear a difference between 150 ohms and 300 ohms or 300 ohms and 600 ohms once the volume is matched. So, I don't know exactly why I preferred the PS100-600 over the PS100-500 but I did. I think what really matters is the type of music you listen to and how dynamic it is. Very dynamic music tracks may require 25 to 40dB of headroom to capture all the peaks and to handle the bass properly.


----------



## JPardo

FranQL said:


> Normally for microphone I use plantronics voyager or jabra elite active 65t. In PC occasionally Logitech G433.
> 
> when I use headphones / iem and need to take calls I use the microphone of fiio BTR3k


Thanks for your comment.  At the time I read that the microphone of the FiiO BTR3k gave good results.

Anyone else give your opinion on the microphone of your earbuds?


----------



## FranQL

WoodyLuvr said:


> Now with all this said it really varies between individuals if they hear the difference between higher and lower impedances once the volume is matched. I myself, with my type of hearing damage, can not really hear a difference between 150 ohms and 300 ohms or 300 ohms and 600 ohms once the volume is matched. So, I don't know exactly why I preferred the PS100-600 over the PS100-500 but I did. I think what really matters is the type of music you listen to and how dynamic it is. Very dynamic music tracks may require 25 to 40dB of headroom to capture all the peaks and to handle the bass properly.


For me, the subjective perception of what I hear is the most important thing. In the end it weighs much more than any defect that someone may expose in their review or peaks that are reflected in the measurements.

The amount of data that he contributes in his answers is incredible. Thanks.


----------



## 40760

WoodyLuvr said:


> There is an ever so slight difference between the PS100-500 and the PS100-600 sound signature wise whither the "Classic" or "Pop". I would say that the bass and sub-bass is deeper and more detailed on the PS100-600 with the overall sound, though equally neutral, more smooth and relaxed. I am extremely sensitive to treble (I avoid bright and sibilant sound signatures like the plague) so I might have liked the smoother more relaxed sound of the PS100-600.
> 
> Drivability, yes! Make no mistake the PS100-600 is harder to drive than the PS100-500.
> 
> ...



Thanks for taking the time and all that effort to explain! Though I cannot properly comprehend the numbers, I think I will go with the PS100-500 (pop tuning) just to be safe. And not to mention that they are much cheaper too.


----------



## FranQL

palestofwhite said:


> Thanks for taking the time and all that effort to explain! Though I cannot properly comprehend the numbers, I think I will go with the PS100-500 (pop tuning) just to be safe. And not to mention that they are much cheaper too.


having Samsara, do you think you need these?


----------



## 40760

FranQL said:


> having Samsara, do you think you need these?



Noticed I never share much on the Samsara I received earlier?

That is because I doubt the authenticity of the pair I received. Arriving without a box was already a red flag but I soon found that the 3.5mm plug was also not original. The ornamental metal piece on one of the cable was missing too.

I suspect they are either refurbished or modified. Sound is also not the same as I remembered them to be.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

FranQL said:


> having Samsara, do you think you need these?


Or again, you should consider the Yinman 600 as it has been so highly recommended by many (more so than the PureSounds) and is currently priced at a steal.


----------



## 40760

WoodyLuvr said:


> Or again, you should consider the Yinman 600 as it has been so highly recommended by many (more so than the PureSounds) and is currently priced at a steal.



I actually already ordered the PS100-500 right after replying to your post.

Yinman 600 are priced slightly higher than the PS100-600, but somehow they never really spoke to me. Could be an aesthetics reason or how they are put together.


----------



## FranQL

Wow, what bad news, added to the fact that they are not cheap. Yesterday I also read something similar in relation to the yinman 600 ...

Making such an investment and you are left wondering whether they are genuine or not, encourages you to buy new models ... and not those that have a certain prestige.


----------



## FranQL (Mar 17, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Or again, you should consider the Yinman 600 as it has been so highly recommended by many (more so than the PureSounds) and is currently priced at a steal.


For price this is the one that most catches my attention, for the sound signature that @Alex.Grimm  commented. I have to additionally assess a 2.5 cable without ear guide (or use one of the ones I have with guide) and pray that it fits me well (which I know will not be the case).

Let's hope for a good offer at the end of the month, and we will have to decide. The risk is that it arrives without a box and others ... that leaves you doubts.


----------



## 40760

FranQL said:


> Wow, what bad news, added to the fact that they are not cheap. Yesterday I also read something similar in relation to the yinman 600 ...
> 
> Making such an investment and you are left wondering whether they are genuine or not, encourages you to buy new models ... and not those that have a certain prestige.


An expensive lesson indeed. This will be the first and final dealing with that particular seller.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

palestofwhite said:


> I actually already ordered the PS100-500 right after replying to your post.


I listened to PS100-500, it did not delight me in comparison with Yinman600.
But when my friend gave me PS100-500 to listen to on his amp Fiio A5 (800 mW @ 32Ω), I said wow, that sounded really cool.


----------



## 40760

Alex.Grimm said:


> I listened to PS100-500, it did not delight me in comparison with Yinman600.
> But when my friend gave me PS100-500 to listen to on his amp Fiio A5 (800 mW @ 32Ω), I said wow, that sounded really cool.



That is very interesting indeed! Now I can't wait to get my hands on them...


----------



## RikudouGoku

palestofwhite said:


> That is very interesting indeed! Now I can't wait to get my hands on them...


Damn, dont you already have a few TOTL buds?


----------



## 40760

RikudouGoku said:


> Damn, dont you already have a few TOTL buds?


I had a lot more in the past but now I'm only keeping the RW-2000 for TOTL. I'm trying my best to just keep it to having only 3 pairs at any one time.


----------



## RikudouGoku

palestofwhite said:


> I had a lot more in the past but now I'm only keeping the RW-2000 for TOTL. I'm trying my best to just keep it to having only 3 pairs at any one time.


Sounds better than what I am doing with my iems lol. (71!!!!!)


----------



## 40760

RikudouGoku said:


> Sounds better than what I am doing with my iems lol. (71!!!!!)



I used to hoard quite a bit of audio equipment, but such a small handful even get used at all. The very warm and humid climate here also means I have to invest more time and money into maintaining them, as metal components get oxidized in no time if I were to just leave them out and about the house.

I have since stopped buying IEMs or audio equipment like DAC or Amps. Earbuds are my soft spot, and even for that I have slowly come to terms that I cannot possibly own everything and not bear the burden of taking ownership.

Just a though in my head but ideally, I will want to keep only 3 earbuds. One of each, in the low (15-64ohms), mid (150-250ohms) and higher impedance (300-600ohms) range.

The RW-2000 might very well be the low impedance candidate, the Bell-Ti 120ohm in the near future for mid impedance and we will see if I can settle for the PS100-500 as the high impedance choice.


----------



## arar

Oh cool, didn't realize we had an earbud thread too. I'd be interested in giving earbuds a try again since I haven't had that much luck with IEMs recently. Do yall have ranking lists for modern earbuds or other resources I could check? Interested in cheap buds with pleasant, warm signature and punchy bass, I'd be mostly using them for music off my iPhone and films and stuff on iPad.


----------



## RikudouGoku

arar said:


> Oh cool, didn't realize we had an earbud thread too. I'd be interested in giving earbuds a try again since I haven't had that much luck with IEMs recently. Do yall have ranking lists for modern earbuds or other resources I could check? Interested in cheap buds with pleasant, warm signature and punchy bass, I'd be mostly using them for music off my iPhone and films and stuff on iPad.


I think I am the only one with a ranking list for earbuds lol.


----------



## arar

RikudouGoku said:


> I think I am the only one with a ranking list for earbuds lol.



I saw that and even opened it, but I totally missed the other tabs and thought it was IEM rankings only. I'm not sure if our sound signature tastes align (you seem to enjoy bright sound signatures, I'm not a fan), but I'll definitely use your rankings as springboard for further research!


----------



## RikudouGoku

arar said:


> I saw that and even opened it, but I totally missed the other tabs and thought it was IEM rankings only. I'm not sure if our sound signature tastes align (you seem to enjoy bright sound signatures, I'm not a fan), but I'll definitely use your rankings as springboard for further research!


I prefer a warmer tonality. Bass boosted neutral and L-shaped sound generally.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 17, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> I think I am the only one with a ranking list for earbuds lol.


*@arar*  -  Yeah the only earbuds rankings I know about are *RikudouGoku's* and *Metaller's*

*@ClieOS* briefly had one here at the beginning of this very thread but people couldn't _politely agree to disagree_ so to avoid any further disagreements it was removed.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 17, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> I had a lot more in the past but now I'm only keeping the RW-2000 for TOTL. I'm trying my best to just keep it to having only 3 pairs at any one time.





palestofwhite said:


> I used to hoard quite a bit of audio equipment, but such a small handful even get used at all. The very warm and humid climate here also means I have to invest more time and money into maintaining them, as metal components get oxidized in no time if I were to just leave them out and about the house.
> 
> I have since stopped buying IEMs or audio equipment like DAC or Amps. Earbuds are my soft spot, and even for that I have slowly come to terms that I cannot possibly own everything and not bear the burden of taking ownership.
> 
> ...


I too am a minimalist and believe that five or six pairs of earbuds is probably all I will need as well. Three (3) pairs would be tough though for me as there are a number of varying sound signatures I prefer for certain music genres and listening formats.


----------



## arar

RikudouGoku said:


> I prefer a warmer tonality. Bass boosted neutral and L-shaped sound generally.



Oh gotcha, sorry for jumping to conclusions! I just saw the word "bright" up there in the S rankings and went "so that's how it is, huh" in my head immediately. Took a quick peek and it looks like NiceHCK and Yincrow are brands I should definitely look into, at least. I know I said I'm looking for cheap buds, but I didn't expect these to be like 10 dollars a pair lol.


----------



## chinmie

Alex.Grimm said:


> I listened to PS100-500, it did not delight me in comparison with Yinman600.
> But when my friend gave me PS100-500 to listen to on his amp Fiio A5 (800 mW @ 32Ω), I said wow, that sounded really cool.



yeah, the PS100-500 is more "bland" compared to the Yinman600. the Yinman has a warmer and enjoyable sound. if i can only have one earbuds, i would choose the Yinman for sure. 

that being said, because i can have more than one earbuds for my collection, i prefer choosing the PS100-500 because of it's more neutral tuning, which is a more vacant space to fill among my collection. 

but i do fancy those Yinman if it's available on my radar. 

by the way, if I'm not mistaken, i think those Toneking TO400s has a similar sound to the Yinman 600? can't be sure though, because i tested them in two different occasions, never did a true head to head between them


----------



## arar

**** it, just ordered the Yincrow X6 and NiceHCK DIY MX500. Literally the price of a lunch per pair, so if they're bad, I guess I'll just not eat for a couple of days.

Joking, of course. But at that price, I'm not even gonna think about it too much. Gonna be easier to ask for further recommendations when I have a couple of earbuds for context, too.

Last time I ordered something from aliexpress I think it must have taken well over a month for the product to arrive, so fingers crossed these will arrive a bit faster.


----------



## jestercow (Mar 17, 2021)

arar said:


> Oh cool, didn't realize we had an earbud thread too. I'd be interested in giving earbuds a try again since I haven't had that much luck with IEMs recently. Do yall have ranking lists for modern earbuds or other resources I could check? Interested in cheap buds with pleasant, warm signature and punchy bass, I'd be mostly using them for music off my iPhone and films and stuff on iPad.


I'd recommend the Earbuds Anonymous from Penon or the Yincrow X6 (I've not yet received my X6 yet but it gets high marks around here)

edit: there's a code for the EA buds that knocks the price down by half if you check out the dedicated EA thread.


----------



## arar

jestercow said:


> I'd recommend the Earbuds Anonymous from Penon or the Yincrow X6 (I've not yet received my X6 yet but it gets high marks around here)
> 
> edit: there's a code for the EA buds that knocks the price down by half if you check out the dedicated EA thread.



That's a solid hot tip, thanks! I'll have to read up on the EA buds. As for the X6, check the post right above yours 🤓


----------



## jestercow

arar said:


> That's a solid hot tip, thanks! I'll have to read up on the EA buds. As for the X6, check the post right above yours 🤓


lol I saw that after I posted - looks like we're both waiting on the slow boat from China now!


----------



## mochill

RikudouGoku said:


> Sounds better than what I am doing with my iems lol. (71!!!!!)


I'm more like 701 , and counting 😅


----------



## RikudouGoku

Less than 2 weeks till the sale. Any of you guys getting anything?

I am interested in the Yincrow RW-2000 and the K´s earphone K300 Samsara.


----------



## jestercow

RikudouGoku said:


> Less than 2 weeks till the sale. Any of you guys getting anything?


I'm hoping for a pair of RW2000s and a Dendroaspis Viridis at a good price - if sales are good enough I'll be on the lookout for some Ks Bells as well!


----------



## digititus

RikudouGoku said:


> Less than 2 weeks till the sale. Any of you guys getting anything?
> 
> I am interested in the Yincrow RW-2000 and the K´s earphone K300 Samsara.


Ksearphones Bell-We for something a bit different


----------



## povidlo

I'll be sure to share my 2p on these controversial earbuds: ATH-CM2000ti

Thank you @golov17 , @RobinFood , @palestofwhite for sharing your impressions in the thread.


----------



## 40760

I did more research on the Yinman 600 and chanced upon some really nice pictures of them that made me change my mind about this pair. I did not really like the light wood finish and I think there is a dark option that seemed to be in black painted metal?

Just so happens that the seller of the PureSounds also carry the Yinman and I'm checking if I can change my order.


----------



## mochill

Get blur 32 thai edition aka blur basshead and also vido blue recabled soon


----------



## 40760

Looks like I will be getting the Yinman 600 in the end. I managed to change my order from the PS100-500.


----------



## mochill

Ordered a legend , pk1


----------



## WoodyLuvr

mochill said:


> Get blur 32 thai edition aka blur basshead and also vido blue recabled soon


Looking forward to hearing what you think of the *Blur 173 Thai Edition (PK32Ω; aka "Blur Basshead")*


----------



## chinmie

mochill said:


> I'm more like 701 , and counting 😅



299 more to go


----------



## mochill

Don't worry , soon enough


----------



## mochill

WoodyLuvr said:


> Looking forward to hearing what you think of the *Blur 173 Thai Edition (PK32Ω; aka "Blur Basshead")*


Will let you know , this will be my first blur


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Just figured out what the new "*aPs*" designation means on some of Wong's latest Blur earbud models (*Blur 173 MX aPs 300Ω* and *Blur 173 MX aPs 400Ω*)... it stands for *A*ir *P*ocket *S*hell. I had completely missed this one post of his where he explained/introduced it; very interesting.


----------



## Victory112

Just got some iSine 10's from Adorama B-stock. Form factor feels like a cousin of the earbud as another take on the IEM + open-back fusion. I actually find the earhooks comfortable and the silicon tip comfortable enough. Quite good to me for 119 USD (sans shipping), but definitely improved when the mids hump is EQ'd out in exchange for a more pleasant listening experience, e.g. V-shaped or more neutral.


----------



## Memoryerror (Mar 18, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> An expensive lesson indeed. This will be the first and final dealing with that particular seller.


Is it AK? Because they sent me a $20 item instead of a $90 item and are trying to charge me for shipping it back, or paying for the item that I don't want.


----------



## 40760

Memoryerror said:


> Is it AK? Because they sent me a $20 item instead of a $90 item and are trying to charge me for shipping it back, or paying for the item that I don't want.



I wasn't going to mention the store out of goodwill, but yes it is AK. Looks like I'm not the only one being duped by them. Buyers beware.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

palestofwhite said:


> I did not really like the light wood finish and I think there is a dark option that seemed to be in black painted metal?


I have black color, its wood shell with plastic сap on glue


----------



## 40760

Alex.Grimm said:


> I have black color, its wood shell with plastic сap on glue


I hope they send me the correct one because the darker one is the one I like. I also order a cheap 4.4mm cable just in case more power is needed.


----------



## arar

Both buds I ordered yesterday have been shipped, it looks like. Fingers crossed they'll get here fast!



palestofwhite said:


> I wasn't going to mention the store out of goodwill, but yes it is AK. Looks like I'm not the only one being duped by them. Buyers beware.


Name and shame every time a seller/store is being obnoxious, imo.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

palestofwhite said:


> I hope they send me the correct one because the darker one is the one I like. I also order a cheap 4.4mm cable just in case more power is needed.


Which store is your Yinman 600 with?


----------



## 40760

WoodyLuvr said:


> Which store is your Yinman 600 with?


AVCCK Earphones Store


----------



## Alex.Grimm

palestofwhite said:


> I hope they send me the correct one because the darker one is the one I like. I also order a cheap 4.4mm cable just in case more power is needed.


One of my friends agreed with the seller to replace the stock cable with another from 2.5mm or 4.4mm  Maybe this is better, the stock cable is not soft...


----------



## 40760

Alex.Grimm said:


> One of my friends agreed with the seller to replace the stock cable with another from 2.5mm or 4.4mm  Maybe this is better, the stock cable is not soft...



Thanks for sharing! I want to keep the original cable to play around with and besides, it will be easier for me to sell later if I don't like them.

Anyway the 4.4mm cable I have bought from the RY store are really affordable.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 18, 2021)

Here is a pic of *"Battles" Earbuds Case* all ready for travel. So no, my earbuds do not travel loose within the case, but rather each in their own protective leather pouch


----------



## 40760 (Mar 18, 2021)

arar said:


> Both buds I ordered yesterday have been shipped, it looks like. Fingers crossed they'll get here fast!
> 
> 
> Name and shame every time a seller/store is being obnoxious, imo.


I have just filed a dispute with the "AK Audio Store" on AE for a full refund and there is no way I will send the item back due to their own mistakes.

I have also probed them regarding @Memoryerror's experience and will see what they have to say.

Anyone wanting to buy from them may do so at your own risk.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

palestofwhite said:


> Thanks for sharing! I want to keep the original cable to play around with and besides, it will be easier for me to sell later if I don't like them.
> 
> Anyway the 4.4mm cable I have bought from the RY store are really affordable.


I use this thin porous foams with yinman600
https://a.aliexpress.com/_Abdeqq


----------



## 40760

Alex.Grimm said:


> I use this thin porous foams with yinman600
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_Abdeqq


I bought a pack of those porous foams last time. I also still have some of my favorite thin porous foams from VE EX Pack that I intend to try too.


----------



## RikudouGoku

palestofwhite said:


> I have just filed a dispute with the "AK Audio Store" on AE for a full refund and there is no way I will send the item back due to their own mistakes.
> 
> I have also probed them regarding @Memoryerror's experience and will see what they have to say.
> 
> Anyone wanting to buy from them may do so at your own risk.


AK audio had some problems during the last sale (or the sale before that), I believe it was about very long shipment times.

Sadly they are literally the only store on aliexpress that is selling the K´s Samsara, which I might want to get during the next sale.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Alex.Grimm said:


> I use this thin porous foams with yinman600
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_Abdeqq


If those are the ones I think they are... I found them to be super itchy!


palestofwhite said:


> I bought a pack of those porous foams last time. I also still have some of my favorite thin porous foams from VE EX Pack that I intend to try too.


Yes, the VE Ultra Thins are very nice.


----------



## 40760

RikudouGoku said:


> AK audio had some problems during the last sale (or the sale before that), I believe it was about very long shipment times.
> 
> Sadly they are literally the only store on aliexpress that is selling the K´s Samsara, which I might want to get during the next sale.



Besides not coming with the original packaging, do you know I found my pair to be fishy? Because 2 days into using it, the sound decided to cut out on me. 

The plug section and the plug barrel unscrewed itself and it was not even secured by any glue. So I went to look up online and found something was amiss with the plug. They had switched it from one that was thinner and longer that "looked" like the original carbon finished K's branded ones. This 3rd party plug had a logo on it that at one look you think it is a K's logo but it is actually not.

The original Samsara has a small metal bead on one side of driver cables. That too was missing on my pair.


----------



## RikudouGoku

palestofwhite said:


> Besides not coming with the original packaging, do you know I found my pair to be fishy? Because 2 days into using it, the sound decided to cut out on me.
> 
> The plug section and the plug barrel unscrewed itself and it was not even secured by any glue. So I went to look up online and found something was amiss with the plug. They had switched it from one that was thinner and longer that "looked" like the original carbon finished K's branded ones. This 3rd party plug had a logo on it that at one look you think it is a K's logo but it is actually not.
> 
> The original Samsara has a small metal bead on one side of driver cables. That too was missing on my pair.


....you are making me lose interest in it lol.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

RikudouGoku said:


> Sadly they are literally the only store on aliexpress that is selling the K´s Samsara, which I might want to get during the next sale.


K's samsara and k's 500 with different cables https://a.aliexpress.com/_A6qceq


----------



## WoodyLuvr

palestofwhite said:


> Besides not coming with the original packaging, do you know I found my pair to be fishy? Because 2 days into using it, the sound decided to cut out on me.
> 
> The plug section and the plug barrel unscrewed itself and it was not even secured by any glue. So I went to look up online and found something was amiss with the plug. They had switched it from one that was thinner and longer that "looked" like the original carbon finished K's branded ones. This 3rd party plug had a logo on it that at one look you think it is a K's logo but it is actually not.
> 
> The original Samsara has a small metal bead on one side of driver cables. That too was missing on my pair.


What a shame... but not surprised to hear this as I have seen and heard of quite a number of sub-$200 earbuds being knocked off (copied) and being sold to unaware buyers recently. Probably the main reason I have been reluctant/hesitant to buy an older model like the Yinman 600s myself.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Mar 18, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> If those are the ones I think they are... I found them to be super itchy!


No its different. I know that you mean itchy, you are talking about 
https://a.aliexpress.com/_AsvWUS
I don't like it too


----------



## 40760

WoodyLuvr said:


> What a shame... but not surprised to hear this as I have seen and heard of quite a number of sub-$200 earbuds being knocked off (copied) and being sold to unaware buyers recently. Probably the main reason I have been reluctant/hesitant to buy an older model like the Yinman 600s myself.



I have a feeling I'm not getting my money back, because I'm not going to send it back to them so they can sell it to someone else.

They are also careful to avoid certain questions and only answer in short one liners.


----------



## Commando Lambo (Mar 18, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> I have a feeling I'm not getting my money back, because I'm not going to send it back to them so they can sell it to someone else.
> 
> They are also careful to avoid certain questions and only answer in short one liners.


I'm having the exact same experience with the same store and my faux Yinman 600s
Edit: this was my mistake, no problem with the phones


----------



## 40760 (Mar 18, 2021)

Commando Lambo said:


> I'm having the exact same experience with the same store and my faux Yinman 600s



I'm getting pissed about it as more and more people are coming out to talk about their experience with this store. How did they resolve it for you?

I did a search and don't see any listing of Yinman earbuds on their store.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Alex.Grimm said:


> K's samsara and k's 500 with different cables https://a.aliexpress.com/_A6qceq


Is that a legit store? Never bought from them. 

They got version a, b, c, d, e, f. 
I am guessing that version a is the k500 since that is double the price of the other versions and that the others are the samsara?


----------



## Commando Lambo (Mar 18, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> I'm getting pissed about it as more and more people are coming out to talk about their experience with this store. How did they resolve it for you?
> 
> I did a search and don't see any listing of Yinman earbuds on their store.


Oops sorry, my store is AVCKCK earphones store, misremembered. But still in the process right now so no resolution yet, hoping for partial refund.
Edit: this was my mistake, no problem with the phones


----------



## 40760 (Mar 18, 2021)

This AE earbuds shopping experience is on another level of insane.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

RikudouGoku said:


> They got version a, b, c, d, e, f.


A: Pure silver wire board
B: Twisted wire comes standard with 300Ω version
C: Twisted thread comes standard with 520Ω version
D: Hand-made line balance version (2.5mm, 4.4mm, 3.5mm)
E: Hand-knitted wire advanced 520Ω version
F: Hand-knitted wire advanced 300Ω version


----------



## 40760

Commando Lambo said:


> Oops sorry, my store is AVCKCK earphones store, misremembered. But still in the process right now so no resolution yet, hoping for partial refund.



Wait what? I just ordered from this store. How did you find out your pair was not authentic?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Alex.Grimm said:


> A: Pure silver wire board
> B: Twisted wire comes standard with 300Ω version
> C: Twisted thread comes standard with 520Ω version
> D: Hand-made line balance version (2.5mm, 4.4mm, 3.5mm)
> ...


Saw that, but that doesnt really tell me much when they dont got pictures of all the different configurations...


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Commando Lambo said:


> I'm having the exact same experience with the same store and my faux Yinman 600s


Why do you assume that this is a fake, did you measure the impedance?

Here is the equipment that came to me, the multimeter showed 580ohms approximately.  I'm happy with the sound.


Spoiler


----------



## Commando Lambo (Mar 18, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> Wait what? I just ordered from this store. How did you find out your pair was not authentic?


Just that it claims to be 600 ohms but I can run it off my crappy phone perfectly loud and with proper dynamics with the slider below 50%

Edit: this was my mistake, no problem with the phones


----------



## 40760

Commando Lambo said:


> Just that it claims to be 600 ohms but I can run it off my crappy phone perfectly loud and with proper dynamics with the slider below 50%



Could you borrow a multimeter and do a test? Because for my case it was obvious the parts used don't add up.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

RikudouGoku said:


> Saw that, but that doesnt really tell me much when they dont got pictures of all the different configurations...


Try to ask the seller to change the photo with the letters.

According to the description, it looks like *B* its samsara 300 original/stock version, *C *its ks 500 original/stock


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Commando Lambo said:


> Just that it claims to be 600 ohms but I can run it off my crappy phone perfectly loud and with proper dynamics with the slider below 50%


I checked it plays on my smartphone LG G7. When I turn on the DAC mode, it sounds louder. But this is not the sound that yinman600 gives out with a good amplifier or powerful dap, there is no control, everything sounds like it is not very good.


----------



## Commando Lambo

palestofwhite said:


> Could you borrow a multimeter and do a test? Because for my case it was obvious the parts used don't add up.


Multimeter reads right around 600 exactly. I guess this is my being a relative newbie coming through but I really thought that I'd have to crank my amp higher for these but I guess not? Will be retracting my refund request and editing past post here so people aren't dissuaded cause regardless of anything else I am quite happy with how they sound, outcompeting my smabat st-10s silver and yincrow rw-1000 to my ear.


----------



## RikudouGoku

I know English isn't their strong suite.... But come on...


----------



## 40760 (Mar 18, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> I know English isn't their strong suite.... But come on...



This is how the back and forth with my sellers was...


----------



## RikudouGoku

palestofwhite said:


> This is how the back and forth with the sellers was...


yeah, it must be damn frustrating to deal with them if you got problems....


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 18, 2021)

*@Commando Lambo *


Commando Lambo said:


> I'm having the exact same experience with the same store and my faux Yinman 600s
> Edit: this was my mistake, no problem with the phones





Alex.Grimm said:


> Why do you assume that this is a fake, did you measure the impedance?





Commando Lambo said:


> Just that it claims to be 600 ohms but I can run it off my crappy phone perfectly loud and with proper dynamics with the slider below 50%
> Edit: this was my mistake, no problem with the phones





Alex.Grimm said:


> I checked it plays on my smartphone LG G7. When I turn on the DAC mode, it sounds louder. But this is not the sound that yinman600 gives out with a good amplifier or powerful dap, there is no control, everything sounds like it is not very good.





Commando Lambo said:


> Multimeter reads right around 600 exactly. I guess this is my being a relative newbie coming through but I really thought that I'd have to crank my amp higher for these but I guess not? Will be retracting my refund request and editing past post here so people aren't dissuaded cause regardless of anything else I am quite happy with how they sound, outcompeting my smabat st-10s silver and yincrow rw-1000 to my ear.


Yep, very difficult to simply judge impedance initially by ear... especially when first listening (due to your ears trying to adapt to a new sound signature and brain burn-in) and/or with an inexperienced ear. Great you were able to measure them and report back to us... it will be very reassuring to *@palestofwhite *who just ordered a pair from the same store (I might even order a pair myself now from that store).

I bet if you listened to them off your mobile phone for another week or so you would soon catch the missing sound dynamics and clearly recognize an anemic bass response especially on certain music tracks.

Awesome that they turned out to be a good buy for you! I would have been very surprised if not as *@Alex.Grimm* offers excellent earbud recommendations and holds high praise for the Yinman 600.



WoodyLuvr said:


> So 90 db Peak SPL can be reached on the Yinman 600 earbuds (600 ohms @ 95 dB/mW) with only 0.4356 Volts which is doable by most all mobile devices and smartphones... and although 90dB may be loud it most likely may not be capturing all the peaks of your music correctly (depending on how dynamic the music you listen to is of course). If you listen at an average SPL of 65 to 80 dB that only leaves 10 to 25 dB of headroom to reproduce the peaks... bass/sub-bass depth and detail may also suffer considerably.
> 
> However, to reach a favorable 110 dB Peak SPL, the Yinman 600 require 4.3559 Volts / 7.26 mAmps!!! No mobile device will provide this kind of power unfortunately. If you listen at an average SPL of 65 to 80 dB with 4.3559 Volts then you have anywhere from 30 to 45 dB of headroom for your most dynamic music files and the bass will be reproduced fully with full punch.


Now you may better understand the response I offered regarding 90dB vs 110dB... apologies that my response wasn't more clear (being a difficult subject to get across easily).


----------



## Alex.Grimm

RikudouGoku said:


> I know English isn't their strong suite.... But come on...


lol, they also have K's Reincarnation Edition (Reincarnation Absolutely Sound Version Outer shiny 925 silver shell (platinum plating or 24K gold process) Reinforced cavity to reduce resonance )
https://a.aliexpress.com/_ACxLcq


----------



## RikudouGoku

Alex.Grimm said:


> lol, they also have K's Reincarnation Edition (Reincarnation Absolutely Sound Version Outer shiny 925 silver shell (platinum plating or 24K gold process) Reinforced cavity to reduce resonance )
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_ACxLcq


Yeah, is that another model? Or another butchered translation on "samsara" lol.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah, is that another model? Or another butchered translation on "samsara" lol.


there is still not enough version with Swarovski stones for the complete collection)))


----------



## 40760

Commando Lambo said:


> Multimeter reads right around 600 exactly. I guess this is my being a relative newbie coming through but I really thought that I'd have to crank my amp higher for these but I guess not? Will be retracting my refund request and editing past post here so people aren't dissuaded cause regardless of anything else I am quite happy with how they sound, outcompeting my smabat st-10s silver and yincrow rw-1000 to my ear.



Good that everything is ironed out! Could you give a short review on them?


----------



## jogawag (Mar 19, 2021)

When I bought the Qian69 about 5 years ago, I was under the impression that they were just clear and bright sounding earbuds.
But I lost them, so I bought Qian69 again.
After I received, I noticed that the distinctive metal tin package had been replaced with a paper and plastic package. When I took a closer look, I noticed that the plastic parts (a connector and a seperater) of the cable were also different from the picture on the purchase page.

And when I listened to them, my impression was completely changed. I found that they have incredible sound and above the price of $15 for me.
They are on the warm side and the sound stage is very wide. They have really good bass which is difficult for earbuds.
I would say they are probably best under $70 earbuds, if you like warm bassy sound and wide sound stage.

At last I recommend using the donut foams to get better sound of Qian69.

The link to the purchase page of my black Qian69 is below.
www.aliexpress.com/item/32956926731.html


----------



## 40760

jogawag said:


> When I bought the Qian69 about 5 years ago, I was under the impression that they were just clear and bright sounding earbuds.
> But I lost them, so I bought Qian69 again.
> After I received, I noticed that the distinctive metal tin package had been replaced with a paper and plastic package. When I took a closer look, I noticed that the plastic parts (a connector and a seperater) of the cable were also different from the picture on the purchase page.
> 
> ...



Do you happen to know how it compares to the Yincrow X6?


----------



## jogawag (Mar 19, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> Do you happen to know how it compares to the Yincrow X6?


The Qian69 has a wider soundstage, more bass, and warmer sound than the Yincrow X6.
EDIT: And the Qian69 fits smaller ears.


----------



## 40760

jogawag said:


> The Qian69 has a wider soundstage, more bass, and warmer sound than the Yincrow X6.



I think I'm sold.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jogawag said:


> The Qian69 has a wider soundstage, more bass, and warmer sound than the Yincrow X6.


Damn, is the bass as good in quality though? Or does it get looser and slower than on the X6?


----------



## FranQL (Mar 19, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> I think I'm sold.


certainly .... of the best up to $ 70 is saying a lot. 

Dendroaspis (€ 58) is in that range with a lot of quality (also of construction) and seems difficult to beat (although it has less amount of bass).


----------



## jogawag (Mar 19, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Damn, is the bass as good in quality though? Or does it get looser and slower than on the X6?


Qian69 may get looser and slower than on the X6.
But Qian69 has good more sub bass.


----------



## jogawag

FranQL said:


> certainly .... of the best up to $ 70 is saying a lot.
> 
> Dendroaspis (€ 58) is in that range with a lot of quality (also of construction) and seems difficult to beat (although it has less amount of bass).


Qian69 is only under the condition if you like warm bassy sound and wide sound stage.


----------



## FranQL

jogawag said:


> Qian69 is only under the condition if you like warm bassy sound and wide sound stage.


Yes, I like that condition better than the wow effect that the brightest buds have (which fades after 10 minutes of listening and becomes tiring for me).


----------



## WoodyLuvr

FranQL said:


> Yes, I like that condition better than the wow effect that the brightest buds have (which fades after 10 minutes of listening and becomes tiring for me).


Well said. Unfortunately a many amazing headphone, from earbuds to IEMs to full-size, falls into this "fatigue" category for me as well... soon accompanied by earaches and headaches from excited/sibilant treble and/or clamping.


----------



## arar

jogawag said:


> The Qian69 has a wider soundstage, more bass, and warmer sound than the Yincrow X6.



I'm still waiting for my X6 and the... MX.. Numbers... Whatever to arrive and I'm already eager to order even more. I love a lot of bass and warmth. Damn these low prices!


----------



## 40760

RikudouGoku said:


> Damn, is the bass as good in quality though? Or does it get looser and slower than on the X6?


I knew you would show up...   So is this a buy for us?


----------



## RikudouGoku

palestofwhite said:


> I knew you would show up...   So is this a buy for us?


Nah, not for me. Sounds like a sidegrade for me. I wouldnt like a slower/looser bass than the X6. And I wont get more budget buds, too many buds already. I will just look at some of the high-end/TOTL ones since they are relatively cheap compare to iems lol.


----------



## 40760 (Mar 19, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Nah, not for me. Sounds like a sidegrade for me. I wouldnt like a slower/looser bass than the X6. And I wont get more budget buds, too many buds already. I will just look at some of the high-end/TOTL ones since they are relatively cheap compare to iems lol.



That's true... I still have the Yinman 600 to receive...

I think I will get it during the upcoming sales then.


----------



## FranQL (Mar 19, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> That's true... I still have the Yinman 600 to receive...
> 
> I think I will get it during the upcoming sales then.


I am waiting for a description of the sound from the yinman, it interests me. And if it can be, also the adjustment. Although now they have raised the price a lot.


----------



## 40760

FranQL said:


> I am waiting for a description of the sound from the yinman, it interests me. And if it can be, also the adjustment. Although now they have raised the price a lot.



Now is actually not the best time to buy if you are looking for the best savings. But since the Yinman 600 is an old product and I can find a reliable source, I thought I'll just pull the trigger in case stock runs out. I'll let you know how it sounds when I receive them.


----------



## Lillie

Hi anyone who’s tried the Fiio Em5 are they really the best earbuds you can buy?


----------



## Sam L

Hey Everyone, it's been a long while! Sorry for the lack of attention... there's been a number of things going on that have moved me temporarily away from the hobby, among them:

1. A crazy, exhaustive job hunt. Frustratingly, my level of seniority always involves case study responses and presentations, in addition to the 4 or 5 rounds of interviews.   But good news, I found a fantastic company and the hunt is over!!!

2. Ear ezcema. Yeah, it's a thing, didn't know until I got it. I've been on headphones exclusively for the last month or so and will be continuing this usage pattern for a bit more.

3. I had to move over to the iPhone and macbook ecosystem. grrrr..... Many of you recall that I started the work of measuring and compensating earbuds not only for improving sound but also to keep the compensation consistent across all my listening devices (back then) -- windows desktop and laptop, lg v60, note 10 plus, pixel 4xl, Samsung s21, sony nw-a105. The wavelet files I generated worked across all these devices and excellent, consistent results. 

Now I need to regroup and figure out what to do with these apple devices. iPhone will likely never have system-wide eq, so I'll have to rely more on my qudelix. The good news is soundsource on the mac is pretty good, but I still haven't found a way for it to manually import my peq files.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> Hey Everyone, it's been a long while! Sorry for the lack of attention... there's been a number of things going on that have moved me temporarily away from the hobby, among them:
> 
> 1. A crazy, exhaustive job hunt. Frustratingly, my level of seniority always involves case study responses and presentations, in addition to the 4 or 5 rounds of interviews.   But good news, I found a fantastic company and the hunt is over!!!
> 
> ...


Glad to have you back.

As for the PEQ thing, just do it manually like I do from my DX160 (neutron player) to windows 10 (jRiver) lol.


----------



## digititus

Sam L said:


> or so and will be continuing this usage pattern for a bit more.
> 
> 3. I had to move over to the iPhone and macbook ecosystem. grrrr.....


Virtual machines to the rescue...


----------



## emusic13

mochill said:


> Will let you know , this will be my first blur


Looking forward to your impressions. We might have similar sound pref like Newbsound 😁


----------



## Kashtan (Mar 19, 2021)

Hi to all.
I finding one earbuds for extreme music, run to search and see next recommendation
"
*TY Hi-Z HP-650* (TY Hi-Z has a very nice offer in range 32, 150, 300, 400, 600ohm)
*TONEKING TO600* (As the previous model U can choose models with different impedance)
*YINMAN 600ohm* (only 3 models: two models are 150ohm and this one is 600ohm )
The last model is the DIY model and it depends on how much money you want to spend because both earphones use the same driver (600ohm beryllium)
You can choose between the assembled version *FENGRU Diy KunLun S600* (this is a *model* with pure silver cable) or
this combo (*shell+driver*) and *TRN pure silver cable *and build earphones by yourse"

1. *ShoonTH ESEP-01BLE*
2. *TY Hi-Z HP-650*
3. *YINMAN 150ohm *(NEW)

What is earbuds best for extreme music?
Budget is unlimited (almost).
Thanks.


----------



## 40760

Kashtan said:


> Hi to all.
> I finding one earbuds for extreme music, run to search and see next recommendation
> "
> *TY Hi-Z HP-650* (TY Hi-Z has a very nice offer in range 32, 150, 300, 400, 600ohm)
> ...



By "extreme music" do you mean hardcore or metal? If those are the genres, then I can recommend the Willsound MK1 or Willsound MT1. You should be able to order those direct from Willy via FB.


----------



## FranQL

Kashtan said:


> *TONEKING TO600* (As the previous model U can choose models with different impedance)



There is very little information about this model, it has been impossible for me to find more information beyond "sounds great".


----------



## FranQL

Well, as I am a bit special, to differentiate left and right (in this case for my pk buds) I have been thinking of a solution, either to do it visually or in the dark. It occurred to me to use these "orthodontic" rubbers






What is your opinion?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

FranQL said:


> Well, as I am a bit special, to differentiate left and right (in this case for my pk buds) I have been thinking of a solution, either to do it visually or in the dark. It occurred to me to use these "orthodontic" rubbers
> 
> 
> 
> What is your opinion?


Wonder how long that rubber would last before melting or something. Many of us simply use different color foams but if you are foamless I guess something like this could work if the rubber is stable.


----------



## FranQL

Yes, I have bought red / blue foams, they will arrive shortly.


----------



## 40760

FranQL said:


> Yes, I have bought red / blue foams, they will arrive shortly.



My favorite colored porous foams are from the Venture Electronics EX Pack. I think I'll be getting some more soon.


----------



## mochill

emusic13 said:


> Looking forward to your impressions. We might have similar sound pref like Newbsound 😁


We do , audiophile basshead


----------



## FranQL

palestofwhite said:


> My favorite colored porous foams are from the Venture Electronics EX Pack. I think I'll be getting some more soon.



If one day I dare to try venture LL or lite (despite the cheap finish and its commented lack of bass) I will try them.

In these there is one thing that has me intrigued, reading they are considered warm but at the same time the lack of bass stands out ... Is that possible? If they are warm and with little bass, are all the other frequencies minimal?


----------



## 40760 (Mar 20, 2021)

FranQL said:


> If one day I dare to try venture LL or lite (despite the cheap finish and its commented lack of bass) I will try them.
> 
> In these there is one thing that has me intrigued, reading they are considered warm but at the same time the lack of bass stands out ... Is that possible? If they are warm and with little bass, are all the other frequencies minimal?



If you are talking about Monk Lite, then those are bass light and not my cup of tea.

I used to have the Zen LL and they were good with quite impressive bass for that smaller shell. I think they are more neutral and cleaner sounding than the Zen 2.0. Possibly also faster, but definitely not lacking in bass. I think the Zen LL can be classified as neutral-warm.

At the end of the day, both the LL and Lite versions cannot touch the bigger Zen 2.0 when it comes to bass. The Zen 2.0 is also warmer and bigger sounding.


----------



## Victory112

FranQL said:


> Well, as I am a bit special, to differentiate left and right (in this case for my pk buds) I have been thinking of a solution, either to do it visually or in the dark. It occurred to me to use these "orthodontic" rubbers
> 
> 
> 
> What is your opinion?


Oh my god I haven't seen those damn rubber rings in ages. Instant reminders of pain from braces. Also yeah that should work, just pick a spot where it won't roll off so easily, since it's bound to happen over time. They've got a tight grip but check if they're slippery. Haven't had braces in a decade so I can't quite recall.


----------



## Kashtan

Ok, anybody could be to comparable 
ShoonTH ESEP-01BLE , TY Hi-Z HP-650 and Yinman 600 ? I choose between this.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

FranQL said:


> There is very little information about this model, it has been impossible for me to find more information beyond "sounds great".


I advise you to skip TO600


----------



## FranQL

Alex.Grimm said:


> I advise you to skip TO600


Thanks a lot! discarded!


----------



## twheshka

Alex.Grimm said:


> I advise you to skip TO600


For my education, can you expand on your reasoning for skipping the TO600? Thanks in advance for your help. Tim


----------



## Alex.Grimm

twheshka said:


> For my education, can you expand on your reasoning for skipping the TO600? Thanks in advance for your help. Tim


did not notice something special in the sound to buy them


----------



## JPardo

I was looking at the Nicehck store and I saw that they no longer sell the B40 model.  In addition to the disappearance of the ME80 a few months ago, I wonder if he will plan to release a new model in that price range.


----------



## povidlo

Maria has a best friend called EarBuddy 

Measured at just around 10 ohm by @ClieOS, she is different from most earbuds that spec out at 32+ ohms. 

Most earbuds do not require ultra low impedance output sources as the result of having mid-high impedance ratings. Maria does, or she sounds wacky. 

EarBuddy allows Maria to mate with a wider variety of sources.  



Spoiler: Maria and her BFF


----------



## 40760

Just ordered 2 VE Ex Packs. How I wish their thin porous foams were sold in bulk. Anyone can recommend any alternative options that are similar?


----------



## baskingshark

Anyone can compare the Willsound earbuds lineup? Are they still competitive in 2021 compared to some of the hyped budget earbuds?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

JPardo said:


> B40 model.


NICEHCK B40
https://a.aliexpress.com/_AevewK


----------



## Alex.Grimm

baskingshark said:


> Anyone can compare the Willsound earbuds lineup? Are they still competitive in 2021 compared to some of the hyped budget earbuds?


I have not tried Willsound DeWa yet. But Willsound MK2 sound a little better than RY4S plus mmcx and have a slightly similar manner of sounding. mk1, mk3, mk32v1 mk32v2 I liked less


----------



## Alex.Grimm

povidlo said:


> Maria has a best friend called EarBuddy





Spoiler



https://ifi-audio.com/products/ear-buddy/


----------



## JPardo

Alex.Grimm said:


> NICEHCK B40
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_AevewK


Thanks for the link but I already have a B40.  I was just commenting as information because they have been a highly recommended model here.

By the way, that store only has 1 left in stock, in case there is any interested.


----------



## agonynine

palestofwhite said:


> That's true... I still have the Yinman 600 to receive...
> 
> I think I will get it during the upcoming sales then.


Any update on your Yinman 600 palestofwhite? I’ve just ordered a pair from AVCCK Earphones Store on AE, but they contacted me this morning to offer an alternative product, which I’ve rejected. Hopefully they still have some available.


----------



## FranQL

agonynine said:


> Any update on your Yinman 600 palestofwhite? I’ve just ordered a pair from AVCCK Earphones Store on AE, but they contacted me this morning to offer an alternative product, which I’ve rejected. Hopefully they still have some available.



oh ... if they know they don't have stock, how do you keep the ad?

well, it is the only seller that I had found, until there are more, goodbye to my purchase of yinman 600.


----------



## FranQL

It is curious, it indicates that it has more than 1000 in stock


----------



## agonynine

FranQL said:


> It is curious, it indicates that it has more than 1000 in stock


Yes, very strange, lists 1028 for me as well


----------



## baskingshark

FranQL said:


> It is curious, it indicates that it has more than 1000 in stock



I wouldn't trust those numbers TBH. Perhaps they are putting numbers as a place holder. Best you message the seller and ask if they truly have it in stock.

I've ever bought from Aliexpress as the seller put on the store listing there were a few hundred pieces left, but they couldn't meet the order. One of them later messaged me to say they had zero stock and they said they will get it from another shop (I gave them the benefit of doubt, but they did get it from another shop but I had a few weeks delay but did recieve it in the end). Another shop who claimed they had stock in the listing just kept using delaying tactics and gave a fake shipping number (item never arrived and I had to file a dispute).


----------



## agonynine

Yes, I agree, I’ve asked for them to confirm they can fulfil my order for the Yinman 600 or cancel it.


----------



## 40760

agonynine said:


> Any update on your Yinman 600 palestofwhite? I’ve just ordered a pair from AVCCK Earphones Store on AE, but they contacted me this morning to offer an alternative product, which I’ve rejected. Hopefully they still have some available.



I got a tracking number a few days ago and it has been "received by-linehaul". Hopefully everything is in order when I receive them. I thought they had more stock when I was ordering.


----------



## agonynine

That’s good news, I wonder if they were testing the waters with me to see if I’d accept anything lesser / cheaper / harder to shift


----------



## 40760 (Mar 21, 2021)

agonynine said:


> That’s good news, I wonder if they were testing the waters with me to see if I’d accept anything lesser / cheaper / harder to shift


Maybe you should ask them if they will restock them if they are out at the moment. I would not settle for the rest if I were you.


----------



## 40760

@agonynine have they refunded you or is the order still on? I just checked and the listing is still there.


----------



## agonynine

palestofwhite said:


> @agonynine have they refunded you or is the order still on? I just checked and the listing is still there.


They’ve read my messages that it’s either Yinman 600 or a refund please, but have not yet responded.


----------



## jestercow

baskingshark said:


> Anyone can compare the Willsound earbuds lineup? Are they still competitive in 2021 compared to some of the hyped budget earbuds?


I received my Willsound MK3 Copper this weekend and I have to say it is the most balanced earbud I've yet heard. It easily bests my Blur PK32 and my Smabat ST10S black/silver, as well as my less expensive options. The bass is the best I've heard from an earbud, although my Yincrow X6 has not showed up yet, and they have a beautiful treble sparkle and a relatively wide soundstage. The mids are not recessed and have no funny business going on, they're an absolutely lovely sound. I will be buying more Willsound buds, as they punch _far_ above their weight for sound.


----------



## povidlo

jestercow said:


> I received my Willsound MK3 Copper this weekend and I have to say it is the most balanced earbud I've yet heard. It easily bests my Blur PK32 and my Smabat ST10S black/silver, as well as my less expensive options. The bass is the best I've heard from an earbud, although my Yincrow X6 has not showed up yet, and they have a beautiful treble sparkle and a relatively wide soundstage. The mids are not recessed and have no funny business going on, they're an absolutely lovely sound. I will be buying more Willsound buds, as they punch _far_ above their weight for sound.


I don't use Facebook, from my understanding that's how Willsound is usually ordered? 

Found this site that sells Willsound (and accepts PayPal):
https://www.rholupat.com/willsound-buds

- Anyone know if this site is legitimate?
- Is $65USD ($48+$17 shipping to Canada) a good price for MK3 Copper?
- Some Indonesian earbuds also sold there called Qlabs God Series look interesting- anyone try? (pics)


----------



## jestercow (Mar 22, 2021)

Rholupat is where I got mine from, Adhi (presumably the site owner) has been a pleasure to deal with. Also, apparently the shipping is a flat rate (I got four buds, shipping was $17 as well). It's not a quick turnaround, I think mine took around two weeks.

edit: they are _absolutely _worth $50+shipping (imo)


----------



## povidlo

jestercow said:


> Rholupat is where I got mine from, Adhi (presumably the site owner) has been a pleasure to deal with. Also, apparently the shipping is a flat rate (I got four buds, shipping was $17 as well). It's not a quick turnaround, I think mine took around two weeks.


What other buds did you get?


----------



## jestercow (Mar 22, 2021)

I got a pair of Kube hybrids (black/white) and a pair of Q'Labs #4. My Q'Labs order got switched up on their end and I received a pair of Rheas instead. I do not care for the Rheas, but Adhi is working on refunding me the cost as the issue was on their end. The Kubes are also a great pair of buds, they're up there with the Willsound buds to my ears.

Edit: I will be repurchasing the Q'Labs #4 once I get my refund, and will grab a pair of Willsound PK-shell buds to see what Willy can do with the PK shell as I do get a better 'seal' with the smaller shell. I'll report back in a few weeks


----------



## WoodyLuvr

povidlo said:


> I don't use Facebook, from my understanding that's how Willsound is usually ordered?
> 
> Found this site that sells Willsound (and accepts PayPal):
> https://www.rholupat.com/willsound-buds
> ...


There are a number of ways... Facebook; Instagram; Rholupat; Shopee; Tokopedia; and via Wong Kuan Wae (the Blur Earbuds creator who is a good friend of Willy's and directly distributes WillSound Earbuds in Singapore, Malaysia, etc.)


----------



## 40760

agonynine said:


> They’ve read my messages that it’s either Yinman 600 or a refund please, but have not yet responded.


If they have read your message, then I have a feeling they are not going to miss out on your business and are acquiring more stocks for you. This might take some time though.


jestercow said:


> I received my Willsound MK3 Copper this weekend and I have to say it is the most balanced earbud I've yet heard. It easily bests my Blur PK32 and my Smabat ST10S black/silver, as well as my less expensive options. The bass is the best I've heard from an earbud, although my Yincrow X6 has not showed up yet, and they have a beautiful treble sparkle and a relatively wide soundstage. The mids are not recessed and have no funny business going on, they're an absolutely lovely sound. I will be buying more Willsound buds, as they punch _far_ above their weight for sound.


I have not tried his later models, but my favorites were the MK2 and MK3. Their naming convention might mislead people into thinking that the MK1, 2 and 3 are progressive upgrades of the same model, but in fact they are 3 different sounding earbuds.

You might have heard me singing praises for the original Shozy BK's liquid smoothness, and truth be told no other earbuds come closer than the MK3. Call it balanced, but I feel it is just a taste of the smoothness one can get from earbuds.

MK2 might be the more popular one because of the V-shaped tuning and bass that can be felt. Willy's own personal favorite are the original MK1 as they are tuned for his love of metal music. In fact he has expanded his range of earbuds tuned for the metal genre, which is very unique for any maker, when everyone else are just doing for modern, pop, vocals or classical.


----------



## chinmie

povidlo said:


> I don't use Facebook, from my understanding that's how Willsound is usually ordered?
> 
> Found this site that sells Willsound (and accepts PayPal):
> https://www.rholupat.com/willsound-buds
> ...



Rholupat is a legit seller for Willsound, as well as several other Indonesian earbuds. i met him (Adhi) once when i purchased my Red Demun from him and he's a really nice guy


----------



## profusion

I ordered openheart earbud recently, meanwhile waiting and wonder can i get another earbud for ~$20? Any recommendations for EDM with fun sound and changeable cables? Can be also without cables as i have spare ones?


----------



## slex

profusion said:


> I ordered openheart earbud recently, meanwhile waiting and wonder can i get another earbud for ~$20? Any recommendations for EDM with fun sound and changeable cables? Can be also without cables as i have spare ones?


Fengru PT52,it's mmcx detachable ,all metal and cost less then $15. Was a good starter for me.


----------



## profusion

slex said:


> Fengru PT52,it's mmcx detachable ,all metal and cost less then $15. Was a good starter for me.


Oh! strangely they look like another ones sold also like Openheart?
https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0SaZ1p


----------



## FranQL

jestercow said:


> I got a pair of Kube hybrids (black/white) and a pair of Q'Labs #4. My Q'Labs order got switched up on their end and I received a pair of Rheas instead. I do not care for the Rheas, but Adhi is working on refunding me the cost as the issue was on their end. The Kubes are also a great pair of buds, they're up there with the Willsound buds to my ears.
> 
> Edit: I will be repurchasing the Q'Labs #4 once I get my refund, and will grab a pair of Willsound PK-shell buds to see what Willy can do with the PK shell as I do get a better 'seal' with the smaller shell. I'll report back in a few weeks


Yes, that PK also interests me.


----------



## jogawag

FranQL said:


> Yes, that PK also interests me.


This is the site of WILLSOUND AUDIO COMPARISON, which I introduced before. I hope you find it useful.
https://aftersoundblog.wordpress.co...n-english-review-mk1-mk2-mk3-mk300-pk16-pk32/


----------



## XP_98 (Mar 22, 2021)

Hello
Got my rw-2000 two days ago. First impression is very good for this mid tier earbud, especially the rendering of bass.
However, I hear a little harshness, and sometimes a little sybilance.
Did you think they need more than 72 hours of burn in ?
Could it be related to copper and SILVER cable ? Would a good pure copper cable soften things a little ? If yes any recommendations ( should not cost more than about 80 euros ; no earhooks, I wear them straight down) ?


----------



## FranQL (Mar 22, 2021)

XP_98 said:


> Hello
> Got my rw-2000 two days ago. First impression is very good for this mid tier earbud, especially the rendering of bass.
> However, I hear a little harshness, and sometimes a little sybilance.
> Did you think they need more than 72 hours of burn in ?
> Could it be related to copper and SILVER cable ? Would a good pure copper cable soften things a little ? If yes any recommendations ( should not cost more than about 80 euros ; no earhooks, I wear them straight down) ?



This is a great cable

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mr2DDw7

I personally never notice changes in the sound because of the cable (or at least something with a basis to justify the change), but I always use this type of cables, they are very well finished and you can select separators, Jack, etc. 

tell the seller that you need it without ear guide


----------



## jogawag (Mar 22, 2021)

XP_98 said:


> Hello
> Got my rw-2000 two days ago. First impression is very good for this mid tier earbud, especially the rendering of bass.
> However, I hear a little harshness, and sometimes a little sybilance.
> Did you think they need more than 72 hours of burn in ?
> Could it be related to copper and SILVER cable ? Would a good pure copper cable soften things a little ? If yes any recommendations ( should not cost more than about 80 euros ; no earhooks, I wear them straight down) ?


I also heard a bit of a harsh sound from the Yincrow RW-2000 at first. So I listened to it with copper cable and full foam for a while.
But after about 200 hours of burn-in, the harsh sound disappeared with the original silver-plated cable and full foam.
So you should not worry.


----------



## XP_98

FranQL said:


> This is a great cable
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mr2DDw7
> 
> ...


Thank you for the tip, but it seems all these cables have earhooks...


----------



## XP_98

jogawag said:


> I also heard a bit of a harsh sound from the Yincrow RW-2000 at first. So I listened to it with copper cable and full foam for a while.
> But after about 200 hours of burn-in, the harsh sound disappeared with the original silver-plated cable and full foam.
> So you should not worry.


Good to know, so I'll continue burning in. Thank you for advice


----------



## RikudouGoku

FranQL said:


> This is a great cable
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mr2DDw7
> 
> ...


Besides the faaeal litz copper, tri through and the kbear rhyme.

There is this store that you can also customize your cables from and is a lot cheaper than EA cables: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/910746107
You can message them and ask to remove the ear hooks, they can even make custom cables for you.


----------



## slex

XP_98 said:


> Hello
> Got my rw-2000 two days ago. First impression is very good for this mid tier earbud, especially the rendering of bass.
> However, I hear a little harshness, and sometimes a little sybilance.
> Did you think they need more than 72 hours of burn in ?
> Could it be related to copper and SILVER cable ? Would a good pure copper cable soften things a little ? If yes any recommendations ( should not cost more than about 80 euros ; no earhooks, I wear them straight down) ?


They surely need extra juice to shine, used to be on my Fiio UTWS3.


----------



## 40760

XP_98 said:


> Hello
> Got my rw-2000 two days ago. First impression is very good for this mid tier earbud, especially the rendering of bass.
> However, I hear a little harshness, and sometimes a little sybilance.
> Did you think they need more than 72 hours of burn in ?
> Could it be related to copper and SILVER cable ? Would a good pure copper cable soften things a little ? If yes any recommendations ( should not cost more than about 80 euros ; no earhooks, I wear them straight down) ?



RW-2000 definitely needs some good old burn in time. Out of the box, it didn't "wow" me but slowly grew on me as I used them more.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 23, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> RW-2000 definitely needs some good old burn in time. Out of the box, it didn't "wow" me but slowly grew on me as I used them more.


Great to hear that they are growing on you! Not surprising.

Many a prominent loudspeaker designer/engineer have stated that it takes a good week or two for ears & brains to fully adjust to a new sound signature and/or set-up (in cases of speaker repositioning and/or added room treatments). Certain frequencies may seem at first to be over-exaggerated and/or veiled but they typically will balance out with time as your ears and brains adjust. Therefore, nailing down the true sound signature of a speaker, is extremely difficult to initially ascertain... it takes time. These same designers and engineers generally agree that mechanical break-in of drivers (diaphragms) is minimal to nearly negligible and that even in extremely cold environments a speaker will reach nearly 95-99% peak performance in a matter of seconds; at which point our ears most likely can not hear the loss in sound quality at all.

Makes perfect sense to me that it would be more of a physiological ("ear & brain burn-in") than an actual mechanical/electrical ("hardware burn-in") event happening here. Audiologists routinely tell their patients that it will take a solid week or longer for their ears to fully adjust to their new or upgraded hearing aids... why would this be any less true for headphones, IEMs, and earbuds?


----------



## cappuchino (Mar 23, 2021)

I would like to ask for forgiveness if what I'm about to post might not be relevant to this thread, but here goes...

---

So I took a break with using EQ on my gears. The last time I used one was in 2020. But this afternoon, I remembered something that I liked so much in the past - @Sam L 's compensation for the K's Nameless. I have been hating the Nameless ever since I got off the EQ train and with the Stellar arriving, it got left in the dust.

And so I downloaded Wavelet again to get access to AutoEQ, immediately plugged the buds, loaded up the file, and got lost in the music. Running them at 90% is perfect for me.

Bass - a very, very slight elevation enough to give it presence and body
Midrange - "neutral." No recessed region whatsoever. The file eliminates the overly warm tint/veil it had. These now have buttery smooth midrange, presented with definition and clarity
Treble - I hear more quantity compared to stock. I'm attributing it to the notable cut in the mid-bass

Soundstage - opened up like the gates of heaven


I was supposed to buy the Datura Pro for ~15 USD but decided that I might not need more earbuds as I'm becoming more and more of an IEM person (recently bought a Red Rosso MH750 😝). If I were to rank my negligible collection, the compensated Nameless would easily be #1 because of the SQ as it works beautifully with my playlist and fits my taste.

BUT, BUT, BUT there's one BIIIG problem. The K's Nameless, for those that are not aware, have been discontinued. There's like less than a hundred stocks left in a local store on Shopee (also the only store left that carries them) and prices have significantly increased (at least 80%). Original price was ~2 USD. I don't know why or what happened. It's definitely not lost of interest as it's one of the most hyped budget earbuds in my country. Good thing about that is I can say I have a "rare" earbud in my collection 🤣

---

Tip: Don't go switching from compensated to uncompensated and comparing them. It won't do any good. Stock would sound really muddy and compensated would definitely sound thin. If it's alright, go straight to compensated and adjust EQ strength to your liking.


----------



## profusion

profusion said:


> I ordered openheart earbud recently, meanwhile waiting and wonder can i get another earbud for ~$20? Any recommendations for EDM with fun sound and changeable cables? Can be also without cables as i have spare ones?



Any impressions of JCALLY EP05?


----------



## agonynine (Mar 23, 2021)

I think my luck might be out on the Yinman 600....




I’ve asked them again to confirm whether they can get in the 600 in black, and if not to cancel my order. We’ll see what happens.

EDIT - They have confirmed no stock so have cancelled my order


----------



## mochill

Blur basshead and vido mod


----------



## mochill

Getting Pt2021 365ohm today and soon monk pro ( monk thai with 7n off upgraded cable and tuning) and blur black panther


----------



## Alex.Grimm

agonynine said:


>


Could you discribe sound of the LONGYAO 150ohm?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

mochill said:


> Getting Pt2021 365ohm today


congratulations, waiting for your impression and descriptions of the sound


----------



## 40760 (Mar 24, 2021)

agonynine said:


> I think my luck might be out on the Yinman 600....


Unfortunate that it is no longer on sale. I was hoping more people can get them to compare.


----------



## vLEGIONv

Been steadily reading this thread for the last few days, and pushed myself to make an account. Could anyone possibly help a noobie out with recommendations for MMCX cabled buds?  Build quality is important to me, so i've been looking at a couple of the tone kings, but I'd like to hear an opinion in 2021. I'd be willing to spend around $100 but would be willing to possibly extend to $150ish if it's really worth it. I'm also not against stopping at lower prices, if something like the toneking 400s (i see aliexpress links for 50ish? if that isn't a scam) can fill the bracket out.


----------



## baskingshark

vLEGIONv said:


> Been steadily reading this thread for the last few days, and pushed myself to make an account. Could anyone possibly help a noobie out with recommendations for MMCX cabled buds?  Build quality is important to me, so i've been looking at a couple of the tone kings, but I'd like to hear an opinion in 2021. I'd be willing to spend around $100 but would be willing to possibly extend to $150ish if it's really worth it. I'm also not against stopping at lower prices, if something like the toneking 400s (i see aliexpress links for 50ish? if that isn't a scam) can fill the bracket out.



A few more details if you would, so that the community can finetune their suggestions better:

1) What are the music genres that you usually listen to?
2) What are your preferred sound signatures? eg V shaped, basshead, bass averse, treble head, treble sensitive, midcentric, neutral etc?
3) What source are you using? Low powered smartphone or you have some amps on hand?


----------



## Podster

Notice a lot of Buds upgrade cables convo and thought I'd throw this out there however I have no clue what cable this is Hungry Panda upgraded these Sony's with but they sure sound sweet  Sure missing the Panda






This ius how you keep working an iPhone 4


----------



## vLEGIONv

baskingshark said:


> A few more details if you would, so that the community can finetune their suggestions better:
> 
> 1) What are the music genres that you usually listen to?
> 2) What are your preferred sound signatures? eg V shaped, basshead, bass averse, treble head, treble sensitive, midcentric, neutral etc?
> 3) What source are you using? Low powered smartphone or you have some amps on hand?


1)I'm all over the place. There's only a handul of genre's I outright avoid, and that's classic rock, country pop, and country rock. I am just as inclined to spend an afternoon listening to outlaw country, as I am to spend an afternoon listening to modern hiphop. I'll then spend the next day listening to post-rock and guttural slam 

2)I have no real preference, and I'm not sensitive to boosted ends of the spectrum. I have mild hearing damage and the "shouty peaking trebles" people complain about have never been an issue for me. 

3) Desktop - Tascam US-2x2HR > Schitt Magni Heresy.
Phone - Tempotec sonata
Player- FIIO M3 Pro


I know the answers to 1 and 2 leave me vague, but I don't mind switching headphones for genre changes or moods. I'm also not against picking up more then one pair, just not all at once . If it isn't too much to ask, I'd love recommendations in each sound signature, but sets for certain genres would be cool too!
 Was never the case when I was sticking with over the ears (I own q701's and sundara's), but I've been impressed and interested in IEMS and earbuds for the last threeish months. I haven't really touched my traditional headphones since then, and have already ballooned to 9 pairs of iems and 6 pairs of earbuds. Earbud wise however, I don't own anything over $20.

Thanks for spending the time to help, haven't seen any very recent recommendations similar to what I'm asking for. Most of the round up recommendations are from a year or two or more, and MMCX is very underrepresented in that.


----------



## emusic13 (Mar 24, 2021)

I've never had an earbud from Indonesia before. Time to see in 2 weeks if its worthy of the name


----------



## baskingshark (Mar 25, 2021)

vLEGIONv said:


> 1)I'm all over the place. There's only a handul of genre's I outright avoid, and that's classic rock, country pop, and country rock. I am just as inclined to spend an afternoon listening to outlaw country, as I am to spend an afternoon listening to modern hiphop. I'll then spend the next day listening to post-rock and guttural slam
> 
> 2)I have no real preference, and I'm not sensitive to boosted ends of the spectrum. I have mild hearing damage and the "shouty peaking trebles" people complain about have never been an issue for me.
> 
> ...



U can check out the smabat st10s black gold. Neutralish with subbass boost (so it hass the best subbass extension and quantity I have heard in a earbud, that subbass area is usually a weakness of earbuds).

Do note it has different tuning from the black silver version. The black gold needs amping, otherwise the 3 khz area is a bit hot.

BK2 (if u can still find it) is cheap and MMCX detachable. Neutralish though bass lite. Soundstage not the best but it has a cold timbre and is something different from the warmer buds.


----------



## earfanatic

Podster said:


> Notice a lot of Buds upgrade cables convo and thought I'd throw this out there however I have no clue what cable this is Hungry Panda upgraded



If i am not mistken, You can buy textile cord (like snakeskin) and pull your cable in the middle.


----------



## Lovehepburn (Mar 25, 2021)

Hello good people! 
I've just read like 200 pages but haven't found out something I initially came here for: is there any type of consensus or common view in the community on which are 2-3 best sounding earbuds on the market if price no object? Something like Empire Ears Odin or Erlkönig but from earbuds world? Or at least a u12t analogue.)
Thank you and sorry for the stupid question.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 1, 2022)

Lovehepburn said:


> Hello good people!
> I've just read like 200 pages but haven't found out something I initially came here for: is there any type of consensus or common view in the community on which are 2-3 best sounding earbuds on the market if price no object? Something like Empire Ears Odin or Erlkönig but from earbuds world? Or at least a u12t analogue.)
> Thank you and sorry for the stupid question.


Firstly, welcome to the fold and be forewarned "_*here be a very deep rabbit hole*_".

Secondly, we generally have avoided rankings on this thread as it had caused us some problems before... years ago an "earlier" version of this thread had a ranking list but it caused such a period of disagreement that it was eventually taken down in order to maintain the peace. No one would could agree to disagree . Plus, everyone has their own listening, tuning, cabling, and shell-type preferences.

Thirdly, there are quite a number of *god-tier level earbuds (aka totl flagship flathead earbuds)* available now for varying listening tastes and source types. The following is not a ranking but rather a quick recommendation list of what is *currently available* with a *ballpark price range in USD$*. *P**lease note there is a rather strong "YMMV" in effect here, as everyone's ears and tastes vary greatly ****.* If you see a particular brand and/or model missing it most likely is for a very good reason... no longer available and/or difficult to source; continuing, unresolved QC issues; piss poor customer service; or some other concerning business practice.

*Audio-Technica "Iron Triangle" ATH-CM2000TI* (16Ω;_ $400-450_)
*Blur Earbuds* (16-400Ω;_ $75-350; custom-made, please see _*here*)
*DQSM Audio Turandot* (16Ω;_ $175-225_)
*DQSM Audio PD21 *(32Ω; _$200-250; 4-strand cable version recommended_)
*FiiO EM5* (32Ω; _$300-350_) _*Suffered some QC issues*_
*Moondrop Chaconne* (24Ω; _$300-350_)
*Newbsound 32pro * *(32Ω; _>$100; custom; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black, see __*here*_)
*NiceHCK EBX21* (32Ω; _$200-250_)
*PISLO by ArtVano PX HIFI *(31Ω; _$600-700_)
*PISLO* *by ArtVano* *PXVV ** (32/122Ω; _$750-800)_
*Rose Technics Maria II* (14Ω; _$350-400; widest staging of any earbud I have heard_)
*•*•*•*•*•*•*• PT2021* (147/275/365Ω; _$50-100; 32Ω version not recommended_)
*Shozy 大黑 Big Black (BK) Stardust *(16Ω; _$150-200; a reissue of the original_)
*Simphonio SW-Dragon 3 Plus* (120Ω; _$500-550; aka "SWD3+"_)
*Venture Electronics (VE) Sun "Dice Edition"* (180Ω; _$275-300; Aluminum/Steel_)
*Venture Electronics (VE) Zen 2 *(320Ω; _$125-175_) _*Suffered some QC issues*_
*Yincrow 野牛 'Bison' RW-2000 *(16Ω; _$125_)
*Yincrow 天牛 'Heavenly Cow' RW-3000 *(16Ω; _$300_)
**** I have yet to personally listen to this particular model but they are highly regarded and recommended by reliable sources so I have added them to the list.*​
*Updated Last on 17 FEB 2022 **--- Apologies, this List is No Longer Supported and/or Updated ---*​
And finally, here are some other *helpful ranking lists*, outside of Head-Fi, that you may find interesting: *RikudouGoku's Earbuds Ranking;* *Luna's Earbud Ranking;* *Metaller's Earbuds Ranking;* *ClieOS' Old Earbuds Round-Up Ranking*


----------



## Lovehepburn (Mar 25, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Firstly, welcome to the fold and be forewarned "_*here be a very deep rabbit hole*_".



Thank you very much for the warm welcome and great recommendations! I've been using iems and portable headphones for years. But at some point few days ago found and tried on my old Yuin Pk1 (btw, how audiophiles treat those nowadays?) and decided that I still liked the form-factor. You get a wider and deeper soundstage than with iems and way better comfort than with headphones. Maybe you're losing some details and bass impact, but at the same time the sound is so natural and realistic. That's basically what I'm looking for- a neutral all-rounder with no compromises. As few flaws as possible, as much fun and technicalities as can be. I do like stage, details, good bass, rich mids and detailed treble.
Thanks again!


----------



## jestercow

emusic13 said:


> I've never had an earbud from Indonesia before. Time to see in 2 weeks if its worthy of the name


I've added and removed these from my cart probably a dozen times since last week, please let us know how they sound! I may hop on board but I'm just not ready to be a guinea pig for this experiment


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> If i am not mistken, You can buy textile cord (like snakeskin) and pull your cable in the middle.


Snake skin or any thin cable for paracord. You can see some beautiful examples on this post


----------



## Podster

furyossa said:


> Snake skin or any thin cable for paracord. You can see some beautiful examples on this post


Indeed there are and nice collection yourself  It took me a while to really appreciate just how good some Buds are, I attribute a lot of that to the late Mr. Hungry Panda and some of the excellent examples he gave me. Until he sent me these in the foreground my Monks were my faves.


----------



## furyossa

Snakeskin is better for protection, and for adapter cables or other non-earphones cables is a good choose. I would not recommend it for earphone cable because the cables will become stiffer. Paracord cable is softer and is good for aesthetics


----------



## 40760

Should be receiving my Yinman 600 by today. Fingers crossed.


----------



## XP_98

Lovehepburn said:


> Thank you very much for the warm welcome and great recommendations! I've been using iems and portable headphones for years. But at some point few days ago found and tried on my old Yuin Pk1 (btw, how audiophiles treat those nowadays?) and decided that I still liked the form-factor. You get a wider and deeper soundstage than with iems and way better comfort than with headphones. Maybe you're losing some details and bass impact, but at the same time the sound is so natural and realistic. That's basically what I'm looking for- a neutral all-rounder with no compromises. As few flaws as possible, as much fun and technicalities as can be. I do like stage, details, good bass, rich mids and detailed treble.
> Thanks again!


If Yuin shell is mandatory for you, you have the SWD3. You can also check about the Super Nightingale II that I am selling...
But if your ears accept other shell form factors, from my personal experience, the Sun Copper and Zen SU (same shell) are end games. But keep in mind they need powerful amping to really shine, like most earbuds with higher impedance.


----------



## 40760 (Mar 26, 2021)

Yinman 600 has been unboxed and initial impressions are really positive. It presents the "headphone-like" sound when paired with my iFi ZEN DAC on high gain, and seems to scale really well with more power. The wooden box it came with is beautiful.

However some things to note when buying old stock earbuds:

The glue holding the driver and and main shell must sat there for quite some time, hence I thought there were actually some sticky transparent spills around the edges of the front driver case. I removed them rather easily with a micro fiber cloth, only to realize the adhesive is completely stripped and the driver is lifting away from the shell. So I thought I might as well do the same for the other side and totally clean out all the old adhesive.

Another thing I'm against are the stock cables. They are quite roughly made, and also due to age, the metal parts have also started to oxidized or tarnished. The plug has some very deep clamp marks on them, which I feel is just poor workmanship. Maybe someone with a pair can share pictures of their original plugs to compare? Their stiffer cable choice also makes them unwieldly and quite a pain to use.

Because of the above reasons, I will have to put listening on hold, until I get some glue to put them back together, while also waiting for a balanced pair of MMCX cables to replace the stock ones.


----------



## Lovehepburn

XP_98 said:


> If Yuin shell is mandatory for you, you have the SWD3.



Thank you! Amplification is no problem at all, I use either Dx300 balanced or that's with Ifi idsd as amplifier when needed. Yuin shells are not mandatory at all, those from Venture you mentioned might even be more comfortable. Thanks again!
A lot to choose from!


----------



## oneula

been listening to my original TC200 lately battling it against my wilsound mk2 mmcx and blur 32(bal)
the little guy hold its own


----------



## Sam L

Well, slight apologies to the board. I mentioned, after getting a job, that I would be re-entering the earbuds purchasing scene, targeting higher-end earbuds to measure and compensate. But I'm not quite ready to jump back in and the buds I have are soooo satisfying already.... so I celebrated my new job with a headphone I've been eyeing since before the pandemic when I was considering a closed-back purchase. 




Have a great weekend!


----------



## 40760

I can't seem to find a proper review on the Toneking TO600. Are there any reasons why these are not so sought after?


----------



## baskingshark

palestofwhite said:


> I can't seem to find a proper review on the Toneking TO600. Are there any reasons why these are not so sought after?



Toneking is a very niche company. They don't market much in the west. They also don't give out loaner or review units, so perhaps not many dare to blind purchase their midfi IEMs and earbuds. Probably the 600 ohm impedance also dissuaded a few buyers if they didn't have the appropriate amps on hand.


----------



## 40760

baskingshark said:


> Toneking is a very niche company. They don't market much in the west. They also don't give out loaner or review units, so perhaps not many dare to blind purchase their midfi IEMs and earbuds. Probably the 600 ohm impedance also dissuaded a few buyers if they didn't have the appropriate amps on hand.



I remembered back then, Panda did give the TO600 some praise. Perhaps only about 3-4 members here bought them, but they are no longer active here.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

palestofwhite said:


> I can't seem to find a proper review on the Toneking TO600. Are there any reasons why these are not so sought after?


the sound is so-so, nothing special


----------



## dissociativity

Every day I mourne the fact shipping from the US takes forever to Australia, my Rose Masyas are so close, yet so far.
I'm genuinely sad I missed the window to buy them new, insanely good value for some cool, innovative buds.

The Maria 1 with it's large discount does still look very tempting, makes me wanna consider selling my open backed headphones and downsizing, surely that massive dual driver setup is competitve with full sized headphones?


----------



## 40760

Alex.Grimm said:


> the sound is so-so, nothing special



Guess I'll have to give it a miss then...


----------



## povidlo

Alex.Grimm said:


> the sound is so-so, nothing special


Boss, how does XIAO Fan T2 sound?

Little-to-no info on this last year model. 

Nice markdown for AE anniversary sale:


----------



## povidlo

dissociativity said:


> Every day I mourne the fact shipping from the US takes forever to Australia, my Rose Masyas are so close, yet so far.
> I'm genuinely sad I missed the window to buy them new, insanely good value for some cool, innovative buds.
> 
> The Maria 1 with it's large discount does still look very tempting, makes me wanna consider selling my open backed headphones and downsizing, surely that massive dual driver setup is competitve with full sized headphones?


I strongly rec Maria and personally consider it a TOTL earbud model.

Not sure what your preferences are, but for me a) Maria is not end-game earbud and b) is not a replacement for open-backs in the same price range that I own. E.g. I couldn't replace my HD6XX or M570 planars with Maria, they all sound very different and enjoyable.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

povidlo said:


> Boss, how does XIAO Fan T2 sound?
> 
> Little-to-no info on this last year model.
> 
> Nice markdown for AE anniversary sale:


Its epic fail, sounds like broken radio


----------



## povidlo

Alex.Grimm said:


> Its epic fail, sounds like broken radio


That single review must be yours then 😏


----------



## Alex.Grimm

povidlo said:


> That single review must be yours then 😏


My comment
https://a.aliexpress.com/_APZOSo

The same comment someone from Japan in different shop
https://a.aliexpress.com/_A0lJA4


----------



## povidlo

Alex.Grimm said:


> My comment
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_APZOSo
> 
> The same comment someone from Japan in different shop
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_A0lJA4


Thank you for trying it and helping others save money and time.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I made a full written review about FiiO EM5 now!

Please take a look and let me know what you think about it~ 

I am really hoping my review comes at a better time than last time. I remember a user had some trouble with it last time, but I also checked, and fiiO replaced his unit, as far as I remember, and all is well and happy now, so I assumed it is a good moment to post the review` 

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2021/03/fiio-em5-earbuds-race-on.html


----------



## digititus

Dobrescu George said:


> I made a full written review about FiiO EM5 now!
> 
> Please take a look and let me know what you think about it~
> 
> ...


If you post it on Head-Fi, I will read it


----------



## mochill

Some earbuds I got yesterday😁


----------



## Muniek66

Hi Guys,

thanks to your suggestions I checked *Yincrow X6* and *Yincrow RW-9 *as an upgrade for Ry4s (not MMCX). Both models of Yincrow are very good earbuds, but I was more impressed by the *Ry4s Plus (MMCX) + KBEAR Rhyme cable*, which I purchased at the same time.

However, I would like to try something even better, with a similar sound signature to Ry4s Plus (MMCX). I like a slightly warm, full sound, but dynamic, with a close, warm midrange and gentle treble. Sources: FiiO BTR3K / Radsone Earstudio es100. I mainly listen to hip-hop music.

Can you recommend something up to $ 70-80?

I was thinking about such models: *ISN Audio Rambo II, ISN Audio Rambo, YUIN OK3, OURART Ti7, OURART ACG, YUIN PK2, Earbuds Anonymous*.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Muniek66 said:


> However, I would like to try something even better, with a similar sound signature to Ry4s Plus (MMCX). I like a slightly warm, full sound, but dynamic, with a close, warm midrange and gentle treble. Sources: FiiO BTR3K / Radsone Earstudio es100. I mainly listen to hip-hop music.


Willsound MK2


----------



## Dobrescu George

digititus said:


> If you post it on Head-Fi, I will read it



I usually do post my reviews on head-fi too  

I encountered a bit of trouble lately, where my artilces get posted with a ton of extra empty lines, and I do not know why, so I've been trying to fix that for a while


----------



## WoodyLuvr

*IEM ≠ Earbud*


----------



## jestercow

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Earbud > IEM*


FTFY!!!


----------



## 40760

Seems like there is some 11th anniversary event on AE tomorrow. I have the PS100-500 and TO600 added to the cart but not sure which to get though.


----------



## baskingshark

palestofwhite said:


> Seems like there is some 11th anniversary event on AE tomorrow. I have the PS100-500 and TO600 added to the cart but not sure which to get though.



The only correct headfi answer is to get both LOL.

The PS100 - 500 interests me too. Anybody tried them?


----------



## 40760

baskingshark said:


> The only correct headfi answer is to get both LOL.
> 
> The PS100 - 500 interests me too. Anybody tried them?



I think the PS100-500 has been discussed quite extensively over the past week or so, but as always still hard to decide when you have options.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

palestofwhite said:


> Seems like there is some 11th anniversary event on AE tomorrow. I have the PS100-500 and TO600 added to the cart but not sure which to get though.





baskingshark said:


> The only correct headfi answer is to get both LOL.
> 
> The PS100 - 500 interests me too. Anybody tried them?


Concur, both!  

Joking aside I think the PureSounds PS100-500 is a no brainer between the two.

After hearing a few different PureSounds earbud models at a mobile audiophile meet-up in mid-2018 I was beyond stunned by the brand's ear friendly neutral sound signature (most especially the 600S "Pop" tuning Version). I have heard the following versions (variants) of the PureSounds PS100-500 and PS100-600 and they are all very good:

PS100-500 3.5 Unbalanced "Classic"​PS100-500P 3.5 Unbalanced "Pop"​PS100-500P 2.5 Balanced "Pop"​PS100-600 3.5 Unbalanced "Classic"​PS100-600 2.5 Balanced "Classic"​*PS100-600S 2.5 Balanced "Pop"* *(*_*I ended up owning a pair of these)*_​


----------



## 40760

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur, both!
> 
> Joking aside I think the PureSounds PS100-500 is a no brainer between the two.
> 
> ...


Do you happen to notice any difference between balanced or single ended versions of the PS100-500 POP?


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Mar 28, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> Do you happen to notice any difference between balanced or single ended versions of the PS100-500 POP?


if your device has enough power on the SE, then PS100-500 3.5mm is your choice. If 3.5mm is low power in your device but there is a balanced connection 2.5mm or 4.4mm with high power then PS100-500 2.5mm is your choice (for 4.4mm you can use DDHiFi DJ44A adapter)


----------



## WoodyLuvr

palestofwhite said:


> Do you happen to notice any difference between balanced or single ended versions of the PS100-500 POP?


Nope, not at all.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 30, 2021)

Headed my way, a pair of Wong's latest earbuds showcasing his newly refined sound signature... *Blur 266 MX64 aPs Balanced 2.5mm (64Ω)

*


----------



## FranQL (Mar 28, 2021)

A thought...

Being in the times that we are ... I really think that it is time to innovate those shells for the buds.

They are good to be given away on the train / plane, but to pay more than € 50, it is difficult to justify it no matter how good they sound (Shozy, Yuin, Puresound, simphonio, willsound, Venture electronics, etc), I'm sure they can do something better, example in Shozy in Iem, without it being a big price increase, I can praise what they do with these plastics for less than $ 15, but when I see them so expensive I can not, I see them as a product that does not convince me.

At least for people who want to get into this rabbit hole.


----------



## 1clearhead

digititus said:


> If you post it on Head-Fi, I will read it


+1 Couldn't agree more!


----------



## 40760

Alex.Grimm said:


> if your device has enough power on the SE, then PS100-500 3.5mm is your choice. If 3.5mm is low power in your device but there is a balanced connection 2.5mm or 4.4mm with high power then PS100-500 2.5mm is your choice (for 4.4mm you can use DDHiFi DJ44A adapter)


Will get the 2.5mm balanced version to try with the 4.4mm output on my D/A.


----------



## slex

I wonder anyone one here who owns high sensitive buds above 100 ohms  and use them exclusively in portable tube amps? How's that sounds? I just pull the trigger on Orin Sound 450 Ohm buds.


----------



## vLEGIONv

anyone have their eye on anything for tommorows sale? probably going to pull the trigger on toneking dendroaspis viridis my self.


----------



## RikudouGoku

vLEGIONv said:


> anyone have their eye on anything for tommorows sale? probably going to pull the trigger on toneking dendroaspis viridis my self.


KZ DQ6
IKKO OH10
Yincrow RW-2000
some adapters

Thats what im planning to get right now.


----------



## feverfive

I've got the RW-2000 in my cart right now for $135.98 (NiceHCK store); still undecided on if I want to dive into buds, hahahahaha.  I am such a masochist as I pretty much KNOW that I'll have fit issues.  This audio sickness is something else.


----------



## RikudouGoku

feverfive said:


> I've got the RW-2000 in my cart right now for $135.98 (NiceHCK store); still undecided on if I want to dive into buds, hahahahaha.  I am such a masochist as I pretty much KNOW that I'll have fit issues.  This audio sickness is something else.


If you are that uncertain. You should try the budget buds and see what kind of shell works the best for you. 

I recommend that you check out the Yincrow X6 for an MX500 shell, not sure what other buds in the budget range is good with other shell types.


----------



## Sam L

FranQL said:


> A thought...
> 
> Being in the times that we are ... I really think that it is time to innovate those shells for the buds.
> 
> ...


fully agree and so does @furyossa. there's another consideration though with innovating bud shells, regarding their target tuning. I'd hate to see alternative shells being developed with the typical bloated lower mids we see in many earbuds.


----------



## Sam L

so what's the hot earbud these days? in the sub $50, sub $100 and sub $300 categories? I know I can go back and read dozens of pages but I'd rather have a convo with whoever's active on this thread nowadays!


----------



## shenshen

Have these custom Blur 266 MX400ohm on the way.

This will not be my first Blur earbud, but I tasked Wong with a desktop-worthy earbud and mentioned the 400ohm earbud he had teased earlier. After relistening to his personal MX400ohm unit, he realized he was not happy with the tuning and went through the trouble of testing several cable and plug combinations to achieve the desired tuning. If this doesn't show Wong's dedication to his craft, I don't know what does. He very well could have simply built what I suggested, but instead took it into his own hands to craft something special. Will forever be a #blurliever, can't wait to hear what he's made for me.


----------



## FranQL (Mar 29, 2021)

Sam L said:


> so what's the hot earbud these days? in the sub $50, sub $100 and sub $300 categories? I know I can go back and read dozens of pages but I'd rather have a convo with whoever's active on this thread nowadays!





Sam L said:


> so what's the hot earbud these days? in the sub $50, sub $100 and sub $300 categories? I know I can go back and read dozens of pages but I'd rather have a convo with whoever's active on this thread nowadays!


Hello @Sam L and friend,

Well, my curiosity is still in trying a high impedance headphone, these days the possibility of getting a YINMAN 600 vanished, which met two things, warmth and good bass plus high impedance.

So right now I still have TO600 in the basket, which although advised against by @Alex.Grimm for not having anything special is cheap and solidly built, I can buy a cable and try it, despite the risk of a bad adjustment, although that would also happen with yinman.

On the other hand, I was recommended turandot, oriented towards warmth and with a small case, very low impedance, but highly praised. In this case in price (today over € 120) the fixed cables and that is quite ugly play against him, as well as the criticism oriented both good and bad ... I do not think that he pulls the trigger, but it is in the basket .

I always have the St10s Gold, and I never buy it (today it will be € 60 with coupons), the NiceHck EBX2021 (today 140 €) which seems expensive for what I read ....

Out of buds I am going to try some new cables, I am not going to use CEMA cables, I am looking for something more flexible. Spinfit I need a couple of games. And I have a couple of IEMs, a second set of a dark and fringe IEM that has made me use the most, and one that DQSM Hermit makes me curious.

If all this I manage to buy only the TO600 and the cable will be a success for my economy.


----------



## 40760

Last minute decided not to get the PureSounds PS100-500. Instead, bit the bullet and went straight up to the Ksearphone Bell-Ti 120ohms. They are currently on back order but I should have it in about 3 weeks time.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

palestofwhite said:


> Last minute decided not to get the PureSounds PS100-500. Instead, bit the bullet and went straight up to the Ksearphone Bell-Ti 120ohms. They are currently on back order but I should have it in about 3 weeks time.


Welkom to the Ks club!


----------



## iMongui

GM500 300ohms received this morning and they sound amazing, sadly I bought 3.5 because of the lack of 2.5 but I see that the cabling is feasible to reconvert into 2.5. Anyone here that did this convert? That pair on balanced should sound like the heaven !


----------



## WoodyLuvr

iMongui said:


> GM500 300ohms received this morning and they sound amazing, sadly I bought 3.5 because of the lack of 2.5 but I see that the cabling is feasible to reconvert into 2.5. Anyone here that did this convert? That pair on balanced should sound like the heaven !


Did you get the Black, White, Blue, or UE Cable?


----------



## baskingshark

Anyone tried the White Lotus 300 ohm earbud:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000925819488.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001844956951.html


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> Anyone tried the White Lotus 300 ohm earbud:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000925819488.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001844956951.html


Just another DIY pair but this is not N52 300ohm driver which is mid-bass centric driver https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33043735233.html
Still, White Lotus comes with a cable, so it definitely pays off compared to the N52 300ohm (L-shape sound signature).
I just saw this pair of buds with nice spec (32ohm | 98dB) which have similar cable as W.L.300 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001426990724.html


----------



## likeafranfran

Hi guys. 

I need your help. I wanna buy my first venture electronics earbud but i dont know what is better match with my Hiby R5 in 4,4 ouput. Can you help whis this?

I have two options: The VE ZEN LL (150ohms) or ZEN 2.0 (320ohms). I not sure if the Hiby R5 can drive well the zen 2.0 Some forums say that zen 2.0 drive well but i have doubts.

Thanks!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I just bought the Yincrow X6 but wonder why the RW9 isn't hyped? From online opinions I doubt it will beat the ry4s plus mmcx.


----------



## RikudouGoku

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I just bought the Yincrow X6 but wonder why the RW9 isn't hyped? From online opinions I doubt it will beat the ry4s plus mmcx.


Because IMO the X6 is better tuned than the RW-9. The RW-9 is more V-shaped with looser bass and more recessed mids than the X6, its also double the price of the X6 which isnt worth it lol.


----------



## iMongui

WoodyLuvr said:


> Did you get the Black, White, Blue, or UE Cable?


Blue cable ! Why? Is there any difference apart of the color?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

iMongui said:


> Blue cable ! Why? Is there any difference apart of the color?


No, just curious. Enjoy!


----------



## jestercow

Well, got a Dendroaspis and RW2k ordered from Nicehck’s AE store as well as a pair of MMCX cables just because the price was right. Hopefully the sale ends before I change my mind and add a set of K’s Bell-Ti....


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Mar 29, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Because IMO the X6 is better tuned than the RW-9. The RW-9 is more V-shaped with looser bass and more recessed mids than the X6, its also double the price of the X6 which isnt worth it lol.


That makes it sound like having a smaller earbud collection is better.  #walletsafe


----------



## RikudouGoku

LaughMoreDaily said:


> That makes it sound like having a smaller earbud collection is better.  #walletsafe


Yeah, X6 is a great bud for iem users but I hope the RW-2000 joins it.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah, X6 is a great bud for iem users but I hope the RW-2000 joins it.


Isn't that the one that's almost $200? Not for me...


----------



## RikudouGoku

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Isn't that the one that's almost $200? Not for me...


Its at 130 usd now and you can probably get it a bit lower with coupons. 

I ordered it.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

RikudouGoku said:


> Its at 130 usd now and you can probably get it a bit lower with coupons.
> 
> I ordered it.


I think I'd rather buy another DAP. for that money. 

I have Fiio M3K, Shanling M0, Walnut F2/V2S and just ordered Tempotec Sonata HD Pro, before the sale. I suck at saving.


----------



## RikudouGoku

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I think I'd rather buy another DAP. for that money.
> 
> I have Fiio M3K, Shanling M0, Walnut F2/V2S and just ordered Tempotec Sonata HD Pro.


I would probably recommend the Ifi hip-dac for an amp at around that price. But IMO the X6 is at a level where it could be endgame for some bud users, personally I want an upgrade since I am too used to the mid-tier iems and that does make the X6 lack a lot in technicalities.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I think I'd rather buy another DAP. for that money.
> 
> I have Fiio M3K, Shanling M0, Walnut F2/V2S and just ordered Tempotec Sonata HD Pro, before the sale. I suck at saving.


*transducers > source*

Transducers trump source equipment every time in my book.


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> *transducers > source*
> 
> Transducers trump source equipment every time in my book.


Yeah, agree. Unless your source is already lacking then its much better to just upgrade the transducer.


----------



## tuleggi

Hi all,

few reports since last time I posted and a big news:

- tested deeply the Smabat ST10s and to me they are a lower quality than my best hearphone to date: the Sennheiser MX980

- tested also for fun (a much cheaper) the NICEHCK ME80 and the NICEHCK DIY MX500 PK1: they are very much entry level, although the ME is enjoyable, still missing punch and fidelity

- tested the Koss KSC75 Stereo, that although they cannot probably be called earbud and they are honestly ugly, they have probably the best cost/performance ratio I have ever found. The sound is good, proper and ample, wide but not exaggerated. Not at the clean fidelity and bass quality of the Sennheiser MX980, but very much enjoyable on a daily basis.

And here the big news: I think I am probably not allowed to post here ebay links, but if you search you will find not only that I am reselling the Smabat ST10s but that I am selling something that I was so lucky to find in a double quantity: a new and unopened box of Sennheiser MX760 and especially a new and unopened box of Sennheiser OMX980. Difficult to put a value on this latter, but I guess that due to its rarity and sound quality can worth well 300 euros.

If someone wants to make me in offer outside ebay (before anyone make a bid), please PM me or otherwise if you are interested good bidding


----------



## davjac84

palestofwhite said:


> I can't seem to find a proper review on the Toneking TO600. Are there any reasons why these are not so sought after?


They are fantastic, I think I prefer them over my HD600! TO400s are also great.


----------



## FranQL

davjac84 said:


> They are fantastic, I think I prefer them over my HD600! TO400s are also great.


Well, what joy you give me, I bought them this morning.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Isn't that the one that's almost $200? Not for me...


Yincrow 2000, nice price in sale now 97$ with all discount in KrHiFi store


----------



## dissociativity

Wow, the Rose Masya is incredible, My wallet may not be safe from the Maria. 
Sound stage and resolution is next level, The warm sweet mids, extended but non fatiguing treble, incredible, the bass is fast and detailed, it's no bass head earbud, but I still enjoy the bass, I'd compare it to the moondrop ssr's detail and speed, though it doesn't have the same thump the ssr still has.


----------



## Richiyaado

My dinky ears and ear canals will simply not tolerate bits of rubber or silicone shoved in so, after trying a few IEMs (even AirPod Pros), I gave up. So mostly, I listen using conventional headphones... Koss Porta-Pros on the go, and balanced Meze 99 Noirs at home. I also have original AirPods, and I can wear those, too, but wireless sound quality suffers. So after canvassing this thread (and other online sources), I thought I'd give classic earbuds a try (the old Apple ones fit okay, so I thought I'd see about finding something better). So far, I've purchased two, both from Penon. The EA (Earphones Anonymous) buds seemed a good start at relatively low price, and I liked those. Then I decided to try another well-reviewed pair that, while not costing an arm and leg, still cost an arm (for me, anyway)... Penon's own BS1 Official balanced earbuds. I am happy with both of those buds, but there are a few issues:

My ears are still so dinky that the buds won't stay in if I use foams, so I wear them nekkid. I'm using a Hiby R5 Saber for most of my portable listening, but without any EQ adjustment, neither sounded especially great (Porta-Pros and Mezes sound very good without any EQ). I have a fairly large collection of music on the SD card, but I'm also listening to streamed music from Qobuz. So I started fiddling with Hiby's MSEB settings (their alternate EQ system), and darned if it didn't work! Now both buds sound quite good, even nekkid.

Yet, I'm wondering whether there are any other buds I might try, in particular buds that might be smaller in diameter than the ones I have. I don't have calipers, and could not find diameter specs online, but both buds I have are around 16.5mm (near as I can tell). I did read somewhere that OurArt's flagship buds are somewhat smaller (16mm?), but the cost is in the arm AND leg category, so i don't want to purchase without really knowing.

So sorry for the lengthy build-up to my question, but here goes: Could anyone in the know recommend buds smaller and even better than those I have that I might be able to wear with foams? Also, are there any such buds that allow replaceable cables for balanced and/or single-ended? I believe the OurArt flagship buds use replaceable MMCX cables, for example...

Thanks!


----------



## povidlo

Richiyaado said:


> My dinky ears and ear canals will simply not tolerate bits of rubber or silicone shoved in so, after trying a few IEMs (even AirPod Pros), I gave up. So mostly, I listen using conventional headphones... Koss Porta-Pros on the go, and balanced Meze 99 Noirs at home. I also have original AirPods, and I can wear those, too, but wireless sound quality suffers. So after canvassing this thread (and other online sources), I thought I'd give classic earbuds a try (the old Apple ones fit okay, so I thought I'd see about finding something better). So far, I've purchased two, both from Penon. The EA (Earphones Anonymous) buds seemed a good start at relatively low price, and I liked those. Then I decided to try another well-reviewed pair that, while not costing an arm and leg, still cost an arm (for me, anyway)... Penon's own BS1 Official balanced earbuds. I am happy with both of those buds, but there are a few issues:
> 
> My ears are still so dinky that the buds won't stay in if I use foams, so I wear them nekkid. I'm using a Hiby R5 Saber for most of my portable listening, but without any EQ adjustment, neither sounded especially great (Porta-Pros and Mezes sound very good without any EQ). I have a fairly large collection of music on the SD card, but I'm also listening to streamed music from Qobuz. So I started fiddling with Hiby's MSEB settings (their alternate EQ system), and darned if it didn't work! Now both buds sound quite good, even nekkid.
> 
> ...


Toneking Viridis and Edifier H185 are both: relatively small and generally well-received.

Viridis: this is good for you as it has mmcx.

H185: outstanding price/performance value here as it sounds pretty much as good as Viridis with very similar tuning.


----------



## emusic13

My Turandots cable started oxidizing. Anyone had this happen? I keep mine stored in a campfire audio pouch inside its original box with silica gel. Shame, the perfectly gaudy gold cables will be no more soon


----------



## assassin10000

Richiyaado said:


> My dinky ears and ear canals will simply not tolerate bits of rubber or silicone shoved in so, after trying a few IEMs (even AirPod Pros), I gave up. So mostly, I listen using conventional headphones... Koss Porta-Pros on the go, and balanced Meze 99 Noirs at home. I also have original AirPods, and I can wear those, too, but wireless sound quality suffers. So after canvassing this thread (and other online sources), I thought I'd give classic earbuds a try (the old Apple ones fit okay, so I thought I'd see about finding something better). So far, I've purchased two, both from Penon. The EA (Earphones Anonymous) buds seemed a good start at relatively low price, and I liked those. Then I decided to try another well-reviewed pair that, while not costing an arm and leg, still cost an arm (for me, anyway)... Penon's own BS1 Official balanced earbuds. I am happy with both of those buds, but there are a few issues:
> 
> My ears are still so dinky that the buds won't stay in if I use foams, so I wear them nekkid. I'm using a Hiby R5 Saber for most of my portable listening, but without any EQ adjustment, neither sounded especially great (Porta-Pros and Mezes sound very good without any EQ). I have a fairly large collection of music on the SD card, but I'm also listening to streamed music from Qobuz. So I started fiddling with Hiby's MSEB settings (their alternate EQ system), and darned if it didn't work! Now both buds sound quite good, even nekkid.
> 
> ...



Some 14.8mm driver earbuds. Yuin PK1/PK2, Shozy has some. These are 16.1mm

The best fitting buds I've had are the K's LBB. They are 16.1-16.3mm iirc.


The earbuds anonymous buds are larger 15.4mm drivers and are possibly 16.7/16.8mm in diameter.


----------



## jestercow (Mar 29, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> I would probably recommend the Ifi hip-dac for an amp at around that price. But IMO the X6 is at a level where it could be endgame for some bud users, personally I want an upgrade since I am too used to the mid-tier iems and that does make the X6 lack a lot in technicalities.


I own the iFi Hip Dac, the new Fiio Q3 THX, and the Topping NX4 DSD - I reach for the Fiio every time. Wider soundstage than the Hip Dac, less clinical than the NX4, and only one cable (data/power shared). Prices are nearly identical for the three, but I'd recommend the Q3 in a heartbeat. Alternately, if you don't need a battery the K3 can be had for 2/3 the cost and is a lovely little transportable dac/amp.

My $.02, ymmv


----------



## 1clearhead (Mar 30, 2021)

I personally like the RW-9 slightly more than the X6. Transparency and details are crazy good! I have many earbuds and I can't seem to top these! I might have to jump to a much higher price category to find out what can beat the RW-9, IMHO!

-Clear


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah, agree. Unless your source is already lacking then its much better to just upgrade the transducer.



Yes agree too. The exception is if we are talking about TOTL transducers eg summitFI IEM/earbuds. These TOTL sets have a huge lot of diminishing returns compared to midfi gear, but moving from budget to midfi there are huge benefits. But going from midfi to TOTL, I kinda feel we are paying 10 times more for perhaps 10% sonic improvement. Different strokes for different folks, some wanna chase the last 10% sonic fidelity, but the sweetspot is around the midfi segment in my book.


----------



## jogawag (Mar 30, 2021)

Richiyaado said:


> My dinky ears and ear canals will simply not tolerate bits of rubber or silicone shoved in so, after trying a few IEMs (even AirPod Pros), I gave up. So mostly, I listen using conventional headphones... Koss Porta-Pros on the go, and balanced Meze 99 Noirs at home. I also have original AirPods, and I can wear those, too, but wireless sound quality suffers. So after canvassing this thread (and other online sources), I thought I'd give classic earbuds a try (the old Apple ones fit okay, so I thought I'd see about finding something better). So far, I've purchased two, both from Penon. The EA (Earphones Anonymous) buds seemed a good start at relatively low price, and I liked those. Then I decided to try another well-reviewed pair that, while not costing an arm and leg, still cost an arm (for me, anyway)... Penon's own BS1 Official balanced earbuds. I am happy with both of those buds, but there are a few issues:
> 
> My ears are still so dinky that the buds won't stay in if I use foams, so I wear them nekkid. I'm using a Hiby R5 Saber for most of my portable listening, but without any EQ adjustment, neither sounded especially great (Porta-Pros and Mezes sound very good without any EQ). I have a fairly large collection of music on the SD card, but I'm also listening to streamed music from Qobuz. So I started fiddling with Hiby's MSEB settings (their alternate EQ system), and darned if it didn't work! Now both buds sound quite good, even nekkid.
> 
> ...


I recommend the following small diameter earbuds to you.

OURART QJ21 (MMCX cable) OURART flagship buds, diameter 16mm
https://penonaudio.com/ourart-qj21.html

OURART Ti7 (MMCX cable) diameter 16mm
https://penonaudio.com/ourart-ti7.html

ISN Rambo II (MMCX cable) ISN flagship buds, diameter 16mm
https://penonaudio.com/isn-audio-rambo-ii.html

Edifier H185 (none MMCX) diameter 16.1mm
https://www.amazon.com//dp/B01C7XBAFQ?th=1

qian39 (none MMCX) diameter 16.1mm
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32800262628.html


----------



## slex

Nobody using portable tube amps with buds?🤣I just blind buy@ Aliexpress, will see how it turn out.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 30, 2021)

Another pic of my soon arriving *Blur 266 aPs* earbuds from Wong @ Blur




Wong has now added a MX 32Ω option to the *Blur 173* line...
Further expanding the line to: two "PK" options (32/150Ω); five (5) "MX" options (32/64/150/300/400Ω); and two (2) "MX aPs" options (300/400Ω).




And last but not least another new pic of his* Blur 266 Pk32 (32Ω*) model


----------



## FranQL

baskingshark said:


> Yes agree too. The exception is if we are talking about TOTL transducers eg summitFI IEM/earbuds. These TOTL sets have a huge lot of diminishing returns compared to midfi gear, but moving from budget to midfi there are huge benefits. But going from midfi to TOTL, I kinda feel we are paying 10 times more for perhaps 10% sonic improvement. Different strokes for different folks, some wanna chase the last 10% sonic fidelity, but the sweetspot is around the midfi segment in my book.


Totally agree. In my personal case with TOLT talking about 10% better than midfi is very optimistic, I thought ... "yes, it's a little better, I know how this sound is, it's not worth paying that much".


----------



## Timoteew (Mar 30, 2021)

Just placed an order for the Smabat ST-10s gold earbuds - looking forward to giving 'em a review!


----------



## slex

ok, what is SEX edition? This supposed to have Titanium alloy inside.🤣


----------



## Alex.Grimm

FranQL said:


> Well, my curiosity is still in trying a high impedance headphone, these days the possibility of getting a YINMAN 600 vanished, which met two things, warmth and good bass plus high impedance.


I would at this time delay the purchase of Yinman600 for another period of time, the seller, on the wave of hype, raised prices in his store, it is not worth it to spend more than $80 on it.


----------



## FranQL

Alex.Grimm said:


> I would at this time delay the purchase of Yinman600 for another period of time, the seller, on the wave of hype, raised prices in his store, it is not worth it to spend more than $80 on it.



Yes I saw it. Luckily there are many more buds on the market. Knowing this preference, when you experience something in the yinman warmth line, share it!


----------



## povidlo

FranQL said:


> Yes I saw it. Luckily there are many more buds on the market. Knowing this preference, when you experience something in the yinman warmth line, share it!


Check out FAAEAL Rosemary: 150 ohm, bassy and warm.


----------



## chinmie

slex said:


> ok, what is SEX edition? This supposed to have Titanium alloy inside.🤣



might be a typo... 

it should be SLEX edition


----------



## slex

chinmie said:


> might be a typo...
> 
> it should be SLEX edition


🤣👍good one!


----------



## arar

Earbuds so good it feels like your ears are having sex with the sound.

My Yincrow X6's are in my country, shouldn't be too long now until they arrive.


----------



## Raketen

slex said:


> ok, what is SEX edition? This supposed to have Titanium alloy inside.🤣


----------



## slex

arar said:


> Earbuds so good it feels like your ears are having sex with the sound.
> 
> My Yincrow X6's are in my country, shouldn't be too long now until they arrive.


This must be a grade higher then bass edition then!🤣


----------



## slex

Raketen said:


>



haha!😊


----------



## baskingshark

Hi friends

Anyone tried the K's Earphone K300 300ohm before?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32783590564.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33001946801.html


----------



## iMongui

baskingshark said:


> Hi friends
> 
> Anyone tried the K's Earphone K300 300ohm before?
> 
> ...


I would like to have them on 2.5 but sadly they only build with 3.5 termination... When you have buds with high ohms you need more juice so balanced it should be mandatory but well..


----------



## Sam L

My new setup!

Many of you recall how my backpack was stolen several months ago.    I'm glad to be on a new laptop, though I think I'll need to get a windows laptop as well since I'm miss using peace/apo. I'm still mostly using closed back headphones as I'm now in a co-working space daily. I might end up using my iems again as this place starts getting more noisy. Not sure where that leaves my earbuds use, but I carry these two around in my backpack at all times. 

Be safe and healthy!


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Mar 31, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Hi friends
> 
> Anyone tried the K's Earphone K300 300ohm before?
> 
> ...


Yes, they sounds at their price, nothing more. I liked RY4S 300 mmcx more than K300


----------



## digititus

1clearhead said:


> I personally like the RW-9 slightly more than the X6. Transparency and details are crazy good! I have many earbuds and I can't seem to top these! I might have to jump to a much higher price category to find out what can beat the RW-9, IMHO!
> 
> -Clear


The RW-9's are amazing. Enjoy


----------



## rprodrigues

baskingshark said:


> Hi friends
> 
> Anyone tried the K's Earphone K300 300ohm before?
> 
> ...



I have them. I agree with the following <review> on them here.



iMongui said:


> I would like to have them on 2.5 but sadly they only build with 3.5 termination... When you have buds with high ohms you need more juice so balanced it should be mandatory but well..



I do understand....



Spoiler: Image











Sam L said:


> My new setup!
> 
> Many of you recall how my backpack was stolen several months ago.    I'm glad to be on a new laptop, though I think I'll need to get a windows laptop as well since I'm miss using peace/apo. I'm still mostly using closed back headphones as I'm now in a co-working space daily. I might end up using my iems again as this place starts getting more noisy. Not sure where that leaves my earbuds use, but I carry these two around in my backpack at all times.
> 
> Be safe and healthy!


k371, right?
If so, do you like them?


----------



## 1clearhead

digititus said:


> The RW-9's are amazing. Enjoy


+1 Cheers!


----------



## Richiyaado

Thanks to everyone's recommendations for earbuds that will fit my dinky ears. Since two people recommended Edifier H185, and because they're relatively inexpensive, I ordered a pair from Amazon. They fit! Now I will consider whether to try any of the (more costly) recommended buds available from Penon.


----------



## Sam L

rprodrigues said:


> k371, right?
> If so, do you like them?



Yep! I love them. x6's of the headphone world (closed backs). well tuned out of the box, a bit constrained soundstage-wise but super easy to drive on a phone. The aeon 2's I just got are clearly another level above the k371, but I'd more easily recommend the k371's than the dan clarks (because of price point diff.)


----------



## Feilong4

In case if someone's looking for a pair of NiceHCK EBX21, I re-opened my listing: https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds...ip-earbuds-3-5mm-termination-extra-cable.502/

I don't use them quite as much as I'd like (first foray back into earbuds) and I'd like to grab a few PC parts.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Thousands of pages ? Oh my ! I just started in the earbud world, it’s very exciting but it seems to be a jungle. Can anybody give me the consensus on the top 3 absolute best earbuds (regardless of price) ?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Serge Bernamej said:


> Thousands of pages ? Oh my ! I just started in the earbud world, it’s very exciting but it seems to be a jungle. Can anybody give me the consensus on the top 3 absolute best earbuds (regardless of price) ?


Please see *here*


----------



## arar

Serge Bernamej said:


> Thousands of pages ? Oh my ! I just started in the earbud world, it’s very exciting but it seems to be a jungle. Can anybody give me the consensus on the top 3 absolute best earbuds (regardless of price) ?



Do what I did, just go on Aliexpress and order a couple of buds at random - they're less than a lunch a pair - and see what happens!

(What happens is nothing, because I'm still waiting for my buds to arrive lol)


----------



## iMongui

I noticed that some of the earbuds that I bought have 2 wires per channel and I can transform them from 3.5 to 2.5. The graph about how to solder the cables on the 2.5 jack its clear for me but how can I do to identify the positive and negative on each channel without desolder?


----------



## gordonderp

EQ'd my smabat st-10s silver editions, much nicer now. The high end on these were so harsh for me, I know people have posted about spikes at a certain hz but I had to turn down all of the 2k-16k frequencies so my ears wouldn't hurt.

Great buds though, really fixes the bass problem that I've had with my past buds. Probably will stick with these for a while.


----------



## DBaldock9

iMongui said:


> I noticed that some of the earbuds that I bought have 2 wires per channel and I can transform them from 3.5 to 2.5. The graph about how to solder the cables on the 2.5 jack its clear for me but how can I do to identify the positive and negative on each channel without desolder?



Do they have moulded 3.5mm connectors, or the type where you can unscrew the back shell? 
. 
If you can unscrew the back shell, the two wires that are soldered together to the sleeve, are the (-) leads. 
. 
If it's a moulded back shell, take a sharp Ohmmeter probe, or a sewing pin, and pierce the insulation of the wires, just outside the plug - and the two that measure 0-Ohms to the sleeve, are the (-) leads.


----------



## Majin

Does anyone know an earbud with a really good mic? Preferably with good sound as well.


----------



## jao29

Hi! I’m planning to get either ksearphone bell ti 30ohm version or the moondrop chaconne. Can anyone suggest which is the better of the two if I listen to mostly rap, rock and electronic music? And which is the more durable of the two? 😊 TIA


----------



## 40760

jao29 said:


> Hi! I’m planning to get either ksearphone bell ti 30ohm version or the moondrop chaconne. Can anyone suggest which is the better of the two if I listen to mostly rap, rock and electronic music? And which is the more durable of the two? 😊 TIA



The Ksearphone Onmyoji looks good though...


----------



## jao29 (Apr 1, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> The Ksearphone Onmyoji looks good though...


Is the Onmyoji the black white version? In shopee, there are 3 variations of the Bell Ti. The black white version, the 30ohm version, and the 120 ohm version. Im having a hard time telling which is the Onmyoji version..


----------



## 40760

jao29 said:


> Is the Onmyoji the black white version? In shopee, there are 3 variations of the Bell Ti. The black white version, the 30ohm version, and the 120 ohm version. Im having a hard time telling which is the Onmyoji version..



Yes, the Onmyoji is the black and white version. Sound wise supposedly improved over the 30ohm version.

As the latest release of the 3, Onmyoji is made of aluminum while the 30ohm and 120ohm are both in titanium.

I ordered the 120ohm few days ago and am waiting for it as well.


----------



## jao29

palestofwhite said:


> Yes, the Onmyoji is the black and white version. Sound wise supposedly improved over the 30ohm version.
> 
> As the latest release of the 3, Onmyoji is made of aluminum while the 30ohm and 120ohm are both in titanium.
> 
> I ordered the 120ohm few days ago and am waiting for it as well.


Oh! Thanks for this info! 😊 Will look around for reviews regarding the black white version. Thanks!


----------



## Serge Bernamej

WoodyLuvr said:


> Please see *here*


Thanks a lot !
Anyone knows if there are closed earbuds ( NOT IEM) like the on;y one I’m aware of, which is the Bose SoundTrue Ultra ?
Not the greatest sound but the only closed back earbud I know in existence.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Serge Bernamej said:


> Thanks a lot !
> Anyone knows if there are closed earbuds ( NOT IEM) like the on;y one I’m aware of, which is the Bose SoundTrue Ultra ?
> Not the greatest sound but the only closed back earbud I know in existence.


Those bose look like iems to me though.





Since they look like they go into your ear canals.


Not sure if there are any closed earbuds though, since you would need to have a seal and its pretty hard for something thats just "sitting" in your ears.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

RikudouGoku said:


> Those bose look like iems to me though.
> 
> 
> Since they look like they go into your ear canals.
> ...


Don’t be fooled by the looks, I guarantee you they are sitting earbuds with excellent isolation. I know this because there was not ONE, ever, IEM that I enjoyed wearing in my entire life. Eother to uncomfortabl, or always slip out, or create weird pressure, or force me to always adjust.


----------



## 40760

Serge Bernamej said:


> Don’t be fooled by the looks, I guarantee you they are sitting earbuds with excellent isolation. I know this because there was not ONE, ever, IEM that I enjoyed wearing in my entire life. Eother to uncomfortabl, or always slip out, or create weird pressure, or force me to always adjust.


If this is the style of earphones you like then I can quite safely say that the regular earbuds are not really for you. The point with earbuds are for that open sound and almost without any isolation. Those closest earbuds with isolation I had were the discontinued Yurbuds and they don't sound good with those silicone sleeves at all.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Serge Bernamej said:


> Don’t be fooled by the looks, I guarantee you they are sitting earbuds with excellent isolation. I know this because there was not ONE, ever, IEM that I enjoyed wearing in my entire life. Eother to uncomfortabl, or always slip out, or create weird pressure, or force me to always adjust.


Let me add a strange thing; coming from the full size headphone world: if you close an open back around the ear headphone, it will totally destroy and distort the sound, obviously, but that doesn’t seem to happen with earbuds. Usually, the sound is even better if you close it in with the finger and push it closer to the ear canal. There’s something to be done about this.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

palestofwhite said:


> If this is the style of earphones you like then I can quite safely say that the regular earbuds are not really for you. The point with earbuds are for that open sound and almost without any isolation. Those closest earbuds with isolation I had were the discontinued Yurbuds and they don't sound good with those silicone sleeves at all.


Oh believe me earbuds are for me ! I love the open sound, the liget and comfortable wait, the sitting non disturbing bud, etc. But as I said, Bose has achieved this in closed back version. I wouldn’t recommend it for its sound though. But I’m amazed by the missed opportunity here. Some DIY genius should act.


----------



## 40760

Serge Bernamej said:


> Oh believe me earbuds are for me ! I love the open sound, the liget and comfortable wait, the sitting non disturbing bud, etc. But as I said, *Bose has achieved this in closed back version. I wouldn’t recommend it for its sound though.* But I’m amazed by the missed opportunity here. Some DIY genius should a



I think you sort of answered the question here. We can all hope but good luck with your search!


----------



## chinmie

Serge Bernamej said:


> Let me add a strange thing; coming from the full size headphone world: if you close an open back around the ear headphone, it will totally destroy and distort the sound, obviously, but that doesn’t seem to happen with earbuds. Usually, the sound is even better if you close it in with the finger and push it closer to the ear canal. There’s something to be done about this.



to simulate the frequency shift of covering open-back headphones on the earbuds, i think it would be by covering/taping the air ports of the earbuds. 

sometimes when i want to listen to earbuds with isolation, i just put on a headphone over it


----------



## emusic13 (Apr 1, 2021)

Serge Bernamej said:


> Thanks a lot !
> Anyone knows if there are closed earbuds ( NOT IEM) like the on;y one I’m aware of, which is the Bose SoundTrue Ultra ?
> Not the greatest sound but the only closed back earbud I know in existence.


There's one that I know of that might count. Tralucent Audio 1 Plus 1.2


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Serge Bernamej said:


> Bose SoundTrue Ultra





RikudouGoku said:


> Those bose look like iems to me though.
> 
> 
> Since they look like they go into your ear canals.
> ...





Serge Bernamej said:


> Don’t be fooled by the looks, I guarantee you they are sitting earbuds with excellent isolation. I know this because there was not ONE, ever, IEM that I enjoyed wearing in my entire life. Eother to uncomfortabl, or always slip out, or create weird pressure, or force me to always adjust.


Not fooled at all. Those are most definitely in-ears aka IEMs and not earbuds. Although they may not insert as deeply as some in-ears do they are still sealing within the outer ear canal (in order to provide passive isolation). Even Bose markets these as "in-ears" so until you convince Bose to identify them as "earbuds" most of us will view them as IEMs.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

emusic13 said:


> There's one that I know of that might count. Tralucent Audio 1 Plus 1.2


Will check that out ! Thanks !


----------



## Raketen (Apr 1, 2021)

The Dunu Alpha1 had those silicon wings, but not eartips. IDK if they are for sealing or for just stability- although it was a hybrid so maybe the thought was to improve isolation for the BA.

I remember there were one or two aftermarket products you could buy that were silicon and shaped like earpod funnels so you could get a seal, though w/ earbuds that aren't tuned for that they probably compromise the acoustics. Yuin also had that pseudo-earbud IEM thing IIRC. OK1 or something?


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Raketen said:


> The Dunu Alpha1 had those silicon wings, but not eartips. IDK if they are for sealing or for just stability- although it was a hybrid so maybe the thought was to improve isolation for the BA.
> 
> I remember there were one or two aftermarket products you could buy that were silicon and shaped like earpod funnels so you could get a seal, though w/ earbuds that aren't tuned for that they probably compromise the acoustics. Yuin also had that pseudo-earbud IEM thing IIRC. OK1 or something?


Awesome find !! Will look into that. Greatly appreciated.


----------



## shenshen

Special delivery from Mr. Wong!



Custom high impedance build (Blur 266 MX400 aPs w/ gold plug)


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 2, 2021)

Raketen said:


> The Dunu Alpha1 had those silicon wings, but not eartips. IDK if they are for sealing or for just stability- although it was a hybrid so maybe the thought was to improve isolation for the BA.
> 
> I remember there were one or two aftermarket products you could buy that were silicon and shaped like earpod funnels so you could get a seal, though w/ earbuds that aren't tuned for that they probably compromise the acoustics. Yuin also had that pseudo-earbud IEM thing IIRC. OK1 or something?


Great memory there @Raketen   The silicon wings/fins, rings (thin and thick), and foam cushions provided with the DUNU Alpha 1 were indeed meant for "sealing" (but on an earbud "seating" level outside of the air canal) and to "aim/direct" the sound ports into the air canal in different manners to achieve different signatures. In the pics below you can see the flush port for the dynamic driver and the horn port for the balanced armature driver. The failure of the ingenious design and why DUNU abandoned the project was the vast difference in people's ear structures and the fact that the balanced armature driver they used really required a tighter seal that could only be achieved from within the ear canal but then the dynamic driver would have suffered immensely.

*From DUNU*​_Changing style of listening_​​_Build with crafted stainless metal ensure the aesthetics and a long product life, 4 special designed different earbud tips to effectively prevent sound leakage and ensure optimum fit and guaranteed superb listening experience_​​_Fin (Wing) Tips: Bass /Liquid_​_Thick (Silicon Ring) Tips: Balance /Musical_​_Thin (Silicon Ring) Tips: Airy /Resolution_​_Foam tips: Full /Balance_​


 

 



For a dual hybrid-driver unit (one dynamic and one balanced armature) they were surprisingly light but damn they sure were clunky and awkward. I nearly bought them on a few occasions but refrained from doing so due to their unruly nature.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

shenshen said:


> Special delivery from Mr. Wong!
> 
> Custom high impedance build (Blur 266 MX400 aPs w/ gold plug)


Very much looking forward to hearing your reaction & thoughts about Wong's new aPs system coupled with his recent retuning endeavor.
My aPs earbuds should arrive early next week; I'll surely post my reaction & thoughts here as well as over on the Blur Earbuds Lovers thread *here*


----------



## Serge Bernamej

WoodyLuvr said:


> Not fooled at all. Those are most definitely in-ears aka IEMs and not earbuds. Although they may not insert as deeply as some in-ears do they are still sealing within the outer ear canal (in order to provide passive isolation). Even Bose markets these as "in-ears" so until you convince Bose to identify them as "earbuds" most of us will view them as IEMs.


No these are definitely not IEMs or what Bose calls earbuds are definitely not earbuds, you have to choose. I have both the closed and open version of the soundtrue earbuds and they sit exactly the same on the ear, but one is called earbud (the open) and the other IEM (the closed). The reason is that Bose is not marketed for audiophiles that like to get into minute details of terminology to make a little point. Normal consumers think IEM = isolation, earbud = no isolation.
The conclusion is, Bose has managed to create a closed noise isolating earbud which is pretty awesome as a category.


----------



## shenshen

WoodyLuvr said:


> Very much looking forward to hearing your reaction & thoughts about Wong's new aPs system coupled with his recent retuning endeavor.
> My aPs earbuds should arrive early next week; I'll surely post my reaction & thoughts here as well as over on the Blur Earbuds Lovers thread *here*


Can't wait for you to get your pair!

First impressions based off of my previous of blur mx32 are a noticeable increase in resolution and imaging ability, I'm having that sensation again when I had my first pair of decent headphones where I was noticing details and nuance that I was unaware of in tracks I thought I was very familiar with. Tuning is a bit more mid-centric in comparison to my warmer mx32's, though Wong did tell me that further burn in will smoothen out the mids as that was his experience with his personal unit. Although my phone can drive these buds, at 400ohms they scale noticeably with my desktop setup (which was my intended use). Really love them so far!


----------



## FranQL

Out of curiosity, does anyone know the price of this Blur 266 PK32ohm?

I understand that it also makes them with 2.5 balanced.

I do not have instagram and I do not know if it will send to my country.


----------



## Kumonomukou

dissociativity said:


> Every day I mourne the fact shipping from the US takes forever to Australia, my Rose Masyas are so close, yet so far.
> I'm genuinely sad I missed the window to buy them new, insanely good value for some cool, innovative buds.
> 
> The Maria 1 with it's large discount does still look very tempting, makes me wanna consider selling my open backed headphones and downsizing, surely that massive dual driver setup is competitve with full sized headphones?


You'll surely enjoy Rose Masya. It was a very pleasant surprise at first listening session. The bass was well presented, you could tell the big drive on the back was doing its job. I only wish it's got a bit more definition across the board. I had to returned them because one side was a few dbs louder than the other, I say it's a keeper if you get a set without QC issue.


----------



## FranQL

FranQL said:


> Out of curiosity, does anyone know the price of this Blur 266 PK32ohm?
> 
> I understand that it also makes them with 2.5 balanced.
> 
> I do not have instagram and I do not know if it will send to my country.



I already got in touch, very good feeling.


----------



## povidlo (Apr 2, 2021)

Gang, any feedback on Ansata Pro?

This is a 2021 model from Ourart/Hessian with mmcx and nice looking cable. Retail at Penon is $90 usd, I'm seeing it as low as $50 with AE sale/coupons.





edit: while looking up Ansata Pro, found this jp thread with interesting feedback on Rw-2000, Chaconne and some other popular models.


----------



## Lovehepburn

Hello guys!
I've just pulled the trigger on Chaconne 2. But I've really been wondering what's exactly the difference between generations 1 and 2? And when generation 2 was introduced first? Spent a lot of time trying to find any explanation online but failed unfortunately. Thanks in advance!)


----------



## RikudouGoku

Lovehepburn said:


> Hello guys!
> I've just pulled the trigger on Chaconne 2. But I've really been wondering what's exactly the difference between generations 1 and 2? And when generation 2 was introduced first? Spent a lot of time trying to find any explanation online but failed unfortunately. Thanks in advance!)


Pretty sure that "gen 1" is referring to the liebesleid. Not that there are 2 versions of the chaconne.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 3, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Pretty sure that "gen 1" is referring to the liebesleid. Not that there are 2 versions of the chaconne.


That is correct! Just a weak translation, grammatically wise, from Mandarin; if you know Chinese you would understand the ease of such an error.

Chaconne (released in 2019) was/is their *second generation flagship* advancing from the Liebesleid (released in 2017) and combining what they had learned from their other earbud models the NAMELESS (released in 2017) and the older VX (released in 2015).


----------



## 40760

My order for the Toneking TO600 got cancelled so I ended up buying the PureSounds PS100-500 instead.

Hopefully I can get it soon to tide through the long wait for my backordered Bell-Ti to be delivered.


----------



## baskingshark

palestofwhite said:


> My order for the Toneking TO600 got cancelled so I ended up buying the PureSounds PS100-500 instead.
> 
> Hopefully I can get it soon to tide through the long wait for my backordered Bell-Ti to be delivered.



I almost bought the Puresounds PS100 -500 during this sale but in the end didn't buy anything. This is indeed the first aliexpress sale where I didn't buy any audio related paraphernalia!

I was fluctuating with this Puresounds in the cart and out of the cart multiple times LOL. I am in no doubt it is a good sounding set, just that I am a bit worried about buying older gear cause I'm not sure how long they've been in the storehouse. So perhaps stuff like shell glue and build may have detiorated. I've bought a few well regarded older gear that were not sold for years (eg Semkarch SKC CNT1) and they came with the shell open in half! I think the glue may have come loose, kind of if you don't use shoes for a long time, the sole can drop off the shoe itself?

 But let us know how it sounds, I hope it is a good set and that you won't face any QC issues!!!


----------



## 40760

baskingshark said:


> I almost bought the Puresounds PS100 -500 during this sale but in the end didn't buy anything. This is indeed the first aliexpress sale where I didn't buy any audio related paraphernalia!
> 
> I was fluctuating with this Puresounds in the cart and out of the cart multiple times LOL. I am in no doubt it is a good sounding set, just that I am a bit worried about buying older gear cause I'm not sure how long they've been in the storehouse. So perhaps stuff like shell glue and build may have detiorated. I've bought a few well regarded older gear that were not sold for years (eg Semkarch SKC CNT1) and they came with the shell open in half! I think the glue may have come loose, kind of if you don't use shoes for a long time, the sole can drop off the shoe itself?
> 
> But let us know how it sounds, I hope it is a good set and that you won't face any QC issues!!!



I totally get what you mean, since I had the same experience with the Yinman 600. I did not manage to fix them afterwards, which could be my fault for not being too careful when gluing them back, but I cannot be bothered anymore.

PureSounds seem to package their earbuds well by including plug covers, therefore I'm taking the risk with the PS100-500 this time, but is likely also the last "old model" that interests me. I do hope my faith gets rewarded.


----------



## agonynine

palestofwhite said:


> I totally get what you mean, since I had the same experience with the Yinman 600. I did not manage to fix them afterwards, which could be my fault for not being too careful when gluing them back, but I cannot be bothered anymore.
> 
> PureSounds seem to package their earbuds well by including plug covers, therefore I'm taking the risk with the PS100-500 this time, but is likely also the last "old model" that interests me. I do hope my faith gets rewarded.


Fingers crossed palestofwhite, I’ve gone for the PS100-500 as well after my Yinman 600 was cancelled.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Apr 3, 2021)

_Dedicated to all bass lovers_
One Russian audiophile whose name is _Boris_, get carried away with DIY, found a way to sound great with some earbuds you know.
When listening to all the earbuds from the "Smabat", we hear that the poorly thought-out design of the shells greatly distorts the sound of the drivers.
Fortunately, a model with replaceable drivers has appeared, which means that we can buy a driver separately for little money.
We take the best driver that is in Smabat ST-10s Black GOLD 150ohm.

Instructions on how to make earbuds that have hype among Russian audiophiles. They are called in the common people the "*Bombat(s)*" (Smabat ST-10s Gold DIY MX500):


Spoiler



1. ST10s Black Gold Driver (on sale 12$-14$) https://aliexpress.ru/item/4001268432243.html
2. MX500 Shells (covers and tuning will be included, but you won't need it, only the shells itself.) (transparent ones are not very suitable due to the problem with the bass port) https://aliexpress.ru/item/32981145439.html
3. Cable https://aliexpress.ru/item/1000007820233.html it can be pushed into the body with grease and tweezers. I will add on my own, you can use any cable that you like, it will slightly change the sound depending on the material and quality of the cable (but a good quality cable will always sound better)
4. The hardest part is to remove the rings without damaging the driver. I used scissors, the tip rested on the lid under the ring, and pulled the top, with some attempt I succeeded. It is important during this process not to press on the center of the driver board, you will damage it.











5. We turn the drivers with the key (hole) up, you do not need additional tuning, you need to put the wires into the case, solder to the drivers, and snap the shells with the lid(covers).


----------



## imackler (Apr 3, 2021)

I've bene doing some searching and haven't found one yet, but does anyone know of an earbud "ranking list." I know such things are really subjective, but I've enjoyed Crinacles on inearfidelity but that's only iems (and now headphones). Do you all know of an earbud resource like that? Or does anyone keep a list of recommendations going, that has price breakdown and general notes on sound?

My boss has mentioned a few times how sound isolating my in ears are!


----------



## Alex.Grimm

imackler said:


> I've bene doing some searching and haven't found one yet, but does anyone know of an earbud "ranking list.


http://headphonemetal.ldblog.jp/archives/52320906.html


----------



## XP_98

Alex.Grimm said:


> Many users wonder where to get hooks like those of Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis.
> 
> Buy 5 bucks for a couple from them
> 
> ...


I find hooks very convenient to use with shells like rw-2000, that don't hold as well as Yuin or Mx500 shells.
But I miss the benefits of foams to soften the highs...
Did anyone find a solution to combine hooks and foams ?


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Apr 3, 2021)

XP_98 said:


> Did anyone find a solution to combine hooks and foams ?


these hooks can be used with foam


Spoiler


----------



## WoodyLuvr

imackler said:


> I've bene doing some searching and haven't found one yet, but does anyone know of an earbud "ranking list." I know such things are really subjective, but I've enjoyed Crinacles on inearfidelity but that's only iems (and now headphones). Do you all know of an earbud resource like that? Or does anyone keep a list of recommendations going, that has price breakdown and general notes on sound?
> 
> My boss has mentioned a few times how sound isolating my in ears are!


*Here*


----------



## XP_98

Alex.Grimm said:


> these hooks can be used with foam
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Great, thank you 
In fact I had ordered them, but then thought they weren't different from the other silicone ones I had already mounted on the rw-2000...
That's a big difference !


----------



## Alteria

Has anyone ever tried the Audio Technica ATH-J100 before? Wondering if they're any good since there's barely anything about it online.


Spoiler


----------



## 40760

agonynine said:


> Fingers crossed palestofwhite, I’ve gone for the PS100-500 as well after my Yinman 600 was cancelled.


Sure hope so! Looking forward to your opinion when you get them...


----------



## jao29

Does the HE150 pro need an amp to shine? I know its around 150ohms so it probably needs an amp but can I just plug it into my ipod touch and expect good results?


----------



## FranQL (Apr 4, 2021)

I don't have an iPod, but on my 150 ohm devices I don't notice any audible differences between them.


----------



## baskingshark

jao29 said:


> Does the HE150 pro need an amp to shine? I know its around 150ohms so it probably needs an amp but can I just plug it into my ipod touch and expect good results?



It needs an amp for sure. One of the harder earbuds to drive that I have tried.

Amping is not about absolute volume per se, if that were the case, we can just put some planar headphone on a smartphone and just max the volume. It is more that you lose dynamics, soundstage and perhaps microdetails when a gear is underpowered. Also sometimes the frequency response is skewed when underpowered, eg too muddy bass or too hot upper mids.

In the case of the HE150 Pro, when underpowered, the upper mids are super shouty. So my 2 cents is to consider an alternative earbud if you don't have an amp on hand.


----------



## jao29

baskingshark said:


> It needs an amp for sure. One of the harder earbuds to drive that I have tried.
> 
> Amping is not about absolute volume per se, if that were the case, we can just put some planar headphone on a smartphone and just max the volume. It is more that you lose dynamics, soundstage and perhaps microdetails when a gear is underpowered. Also sometimes the frequency response is skewed when underpowered, eg too muddy bass or too hot upper mids.
> 
> In the case of the HE150 Pro, when underpowered, the upper mids are super shouty. So my 2 cents is to consider an alternative earbud if you don't have an amp on hand.


Thanks!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 4, 2021)

jao29 said:


> Does the HE150 pro need an amp to shine? I know its around 150ohms so it probably needs an amp but can I just plug it into my ipod touch and expect good results?


----------



## baskingshark (Apr 4, 2021)

Anyways, for those looking for the legendary ME80, I realized that it is still being sold at some places, for example on Shopee: https://shopee.sg/Kagawa-Nicehck-Me...c-Metal-Hifi-Earphones-i.328848226.7260634105





But unfortunately the sellers know they have a limited edition gem and have priced gouged, it is going for $50.27 SGD, which is about $37 USD!


----------



## thefallenangelx (Apr 4, 2021)

Hi, anyone can compare ISN Rambo II vs Ourart Ansata pro vs Toneking TO400 vs Smabat M2 Pro? Thanks!


----------



## povidlo

baskingshark said:


> Anyways, for those looking for the legendary ME80, I realized that it is still being sold at some places, for example on Shopee: https://shopee.sg/Kagawa-Nicehck-Me...c-Metal-Hifi-Earphones-i.328848226.7260634105
> 
> 
> 
> But unfortunately the sellers know they have a limited edition gem and have priced gouged, it is going for $50.27 SGD, which is about $37 USD!


My ME80 is silver gray, haven't seen black colorway yet. Maybe new stock?


----------



## furyossa

jao29 said:


> Does the HE150 pro need an amp to shine? I know its around 150ohms so it probably needs an amp but can I just plug it into my ipod touch and expect good results?


I agree with @baskingshark. HE150 (MX500) is my favorite pair of buds, but they can no longer be found. Pro version is a bit different but not better which does not mean that they are bad. If you want to use the full potential you definitely need an amp.


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> Anyways, for those looking for the legendary ME80, I realized that it is still being sold at some places, for example on Shopee: https://shopee.sg/Kagawa-Nicehck-Me...c-Metal-Hifi-Earphones-i.328848226.7260634105
> 
> 
> 
> But unfortunately the sellers know they have a limited edition gem and have priced gouged, it is going for $50.27 SGD, which is about $37 USD!


Wow! Me80 had a starting price $9.99. Maybe next year, if they can still be found, it will really cost $50


----------



## baskingshark

furyossa said:


> Wow! Me80 had a starting price $9.99. Maybe next year, if they can still be found, it will really cost $50



Dang, I'm gonna baby my ME80 till kingdom come. If I had known, I would have bought 10 ME80s last year during sales and kept one for myself and put the rest up for sale hahaha.


----------



## chinmie

all this talk about the ME80 makes me curious to try it, then i realized that i had it already in the past.. man.. either I'm getting old or too many gears coming in and out made me forgetful


----------



## 1Q84 (Apr 5, 2021)

cenizas said:


> No it's not, that's just the character of the bud. I also find the midrange tonality weird, I think that 6k peak followed by a treble shelf is doing that, technically it's ok, but similarly it doesn't get much eartime on my end due to the off timbre and tonality. Maybe eq can fix it since the driver seems quite capable.


Just want to say that I echo this review. Got an old version of the tc200(claimed by the seller and various reviews from others) and spent time with it over the weekend, if this bud had better midrange then this would have been endgame for me. Its really a shame how near perfect this buds could have been, my biggest complaint is that vocals sound nasally, however instrument separation is really good and cymbals crashes are textured excellently. I find the tc200 best for post rock and math rock.

As a mid-head, for the people who have tried willsound, will the mk1 or mk3 have better technicalities and tuning than the tc200? Or any recommendations for a bud with the bass and treble of the tc200 but with mids similar with the KSC75? Thanks


----------



## slex

Just came in, my Shanling M3X can't even push these 450 Ohm buds on High Gain with Max Volume ( 100% ). Anticipating a tube amp to do the honor soon when arrive.


----------



## RikudouGoku

slex said:


> Just came in, my Shanling M3X can't even push these 450 Ohm buds on High Gain with Max Volume ( 100% ). Anticipating a tube amp to do the honor soon when arrive.


It only has 240 mw with its balanced port though. So its quite weak for something at that price.


----------



## slex

RikudouGoku said:


> It only has 240 mw with its balanced port though. So its quite weak for something at that price.


Ok, at least it's ohms are valid😊👍


----------



## digititus

slex said:


> Just came in, my Shanling M3X can't even push these 450 Ohm buds on High Gain with Max Volume ( 100% ). Anticipating a tube amp to do the honor soon when arrive.


Earbud owner badge of honor - when impedance is so high you can't actually enjoy them


----------



## slex

digititus said:


> Earbud owner badge of honor - when impedance is so high you can't actually enjoy them


🤣ok, now on Shanling M5S, abit better.


----------



## agonynine

slex said:


> Just came in, my Shanling M3X can't even push these 450 Ohm buds on High Gain with Max Volume ( 100% ). Anticipating a tube amp to do the honor soon when arrive.


I’ve seen a few mentions of Oren 40 as an earbud worth investigating but have not been able to track them down, are these the same manufacturer?


----------



## slex

agonynine said:


> I’ve seen a few mentions of Oren 40 as an earbud worth investigating but have not been able to track them down, are these the same manufacturer?


Not sure, never heard of Oren 40.


----------



## jao29

Any ideas on what is an upgrade from the Yincrow X6? I have been enjoying the X6 immensely and was wondering what might be the totl equivalent of the X6. 😊


----------



## 40760

jao29 said:


> Any ideas on what is an upgrade from the Yincrow X6? I have been enjoying the X6 immensely and was wondering what might be the totl equivalent of the X6. 😊


You may want to try the Yincrow RW-2000? I had both at one point and really think the RW-2000 is a good upgrade over the X6.


----------



## likeafranfran

jao29 said:


> Any ideas on what is an upgrade from the Yincrow X6? I have been enjoying the X6 immensely and was wondering what might be the totl equivalent of the X6. 😊


I have the Yincrow RW-1000 bass pro (the normal RW-1000 have minor bass quantity) and its a great upgrade from the X6. If you want something better the RW-2000


----------



## jao29

Is the RW-2000 as bassy and clear as the X6? One thing that really impressed me with the X6 is that despite its bass quantity, it did not overpower the mids and highs.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Apr 6, 2021)

jao29 said:


> Any ideas on what is an upgrade from the Yincrow X6? I have been enjoying the X6 immensely and was wondering what might be the totl equivalent of the X6. 😊


I don’t even know what to advise you, as the new versions of the Yincrow's have a completely different sound. if you want the same warm, imposing, velvety sound, you should probably take a closer look at Yinman600, VE Zen 2.0 ...


----------



## jao29

Alex.Grimm said:


> I don’t even know what to advise you, as the new versions of the Yincrow's have a completely different sound. if you want the same warm, imposing, velvety sound, you should probably take a closer look at Yinman600, VE Zen 2.0 ...


Thank you! I already have the Zen 2.0 but I rarely use it anymore because I’m too lazy to use an amp for my ipod touch hahaha. Do you have any suggestion for lower impedance buds that have improved sound quality from the X6?


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Apr 6, 2021)

jao29 said:


> Thank you! I already have the Zen 2.0 but I rarely use it anymore because I’m too lazy to use an amp for my ipod touch hahaha. Do you have any suggestion for lower impedance buds that have improved sound quality from the X6?


I only know of the cheapest, but this is a small improvement RY4S plus mmcx, Willsound MK2.
if you want a neutral, flat sound, where there is less subbass and more midbass then RW-2000


----------



## jogawag (Apr 6, 2021)

jao29 said:


> Thank you! I already have the Zen 2.0 but I rarely use it anymore because I’m too lazy to use an amp for my ipod touch hahaha. Do you have any suggestion for lower impedance buds that have improved sound quality from the X6?


The RW-2000 is the only low-impedance totl buds that I can think of that improves on the sound quality of the X6, which is characterized by strong bass.
So I would recommend the RW-2000.
If you use the RW-2000 with double foam (donut foam on full foam), you may get closer to the warm sound signature of the X6.


----------



## digititus

likeafranfran said:


> I have the Yincrow RW-1000 bass pro (the normal RW-1000 have minor bass quantity) and its a great upgrade from the X6. If you want something better the RW-2000


Agreed. I have RW-9 and Yincrow RW-1000 bass pro. The RW-1000 is really good and is currently the most used headphone I currently have, so have no doubt about RW-2000 quality.


----------



## jao29

Thank you all! Will look into reviews for the RW-2000. Is the X6 a warm sounding earbud though? While it has plenty of bass, to my ears it still sound clear and not veiled. This is why I love the X6.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jao29 said:


> Thank you all! Will look into reviews for the RW-2000. Is the X6 a warm sounding earbud though? While it has plenty of bass, to my ears it still sound clear and not veiled. This is why I love the X6.


I have the RW-2000 on the way. Might get it this week. 

Love the x6 as well and definitely hope the RW-2000 is the upgrade to it while keeping the x6's charms.


----------



## jao29

Looking forward for your impressions on the Rw-2000 😊


----------



## 40760

RikudouGoku said:


> I have the RW-2000 on the way. Might get it this week.
> 
> Love the x6 as well and definitely hope the RW-2000 is the upgrade to it while keeping the x6's charms.



I hope you will like them. The RW-2000 is much more refined and balanced sounding, while still keeping good bass.


----------



## thefallenangelx

Hi, anyone can suggest me annuograde to my current Openheart earbuds.
Im leaning toward Toneking TO400s, Hessian Ansata pro (looks like ISN Rambo II) or Toneking Dendroaspis.
Looking for big soundstage and imaging, great details and mid, balanced bass.
Price below 100€.

thanks!


----------



## Lillie

Toom said:


> Are there any hooks or equivalent that would work with the Fiio EM5?


I’m using FarEndGear Budloks.


----------



## arar (Apr 6, 2021)

Literally just got my Yincrow X6's in the mail like 30 minutes ago. First impressions: holy crap. These are ten bucks? And that bass! How?!

Really sucks that these don't have detachable cables. Already considering ordering a couple of extra pairs.

I'll have to try the donut looking cushions next. I'm listening with the "closed" cushions right now and I feel like there's a bit of a veil over the mids with these, like some male vocals sound just a bit too distant, for example, which is taking away from the enjoyment a bit. But the bass is too damn fun.

edit: listening on my iPhone 11 Pro. Finding myself going all the way up to 50% volume even at home, which sounds a bit high, or is that just me? I don't usually listen to music very loud, I think.


----------



## jogawag (Apr 6, 2021)

thefallenangelx said:


> Hi, anyone can suggest me annuograde to my current Openheart earbuds.
> Im leaning toward Toneking TO400s, Hessian Ansata pro (looks like ISN Rambo II) or Toneking Dendroaspis.
> Looking for big soundstage and imaging, great details and mid, balanced bass.
> Price below 100€.
> ...


The Toneking TO400 and Toneking Dendroaspis seem to have slightly less bass, see below for a review.
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/toneking-to400s.23345/reviews
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/toneking-dendroaspis-viridis.24788/reviews

I can't find any reviews on the Hessian Ansata pro as it is too new product.

The one I own and recommend is the Yincrow RW-2000. This is said to have upwardly compatible sound with the Openheart OH860, and this sells for less than 100€ during cheap sales piriod.


----------



## 40760

arar said:


> listening on my iPhone 11 Pro. Finding myself going all the way up to 50% volume even at home, which sounds a bit high, or is that just me? I don't usually listen to music very loud, I think.



If you are coming over from IEMs, then the lack of isolation with earbuds might make you want to increase the volume.


----------



## povidlo

Taobao has positive reviews on Ansata Pro


----------



## thefallenangelx

jogawag said:


> The Toneking TO400 and Toneking Dendroaspis seem to have slightly less bass, see below for a review.
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/toneking-to400s.23345/reviews
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/toneking-dendroaspis-viridis.24788/reviews
> 
> ...


Thanks! RW2000 are over my bdg. Openhearts i paid 10€. Id like to upgrade within 100€.


----------



## thefallenangelx

povidlo said:


> Taobao has positive reviews on Ansata Pro


Thanks, cant see review, it ask to sign up...
Seeing you own ST-10s Gold, Dendroaspis Viridis. Whats your opinion on these?


----------



## arar

Let the GF listen to the X6's for a bit and now I'm ordering her a pair too lol

I'm gonna have to listen to them a bit more later in bed (bed listening was the primary reason I wanted comfortable and easy-to-drive earbuds), but right now I'm just sort of genuinely shocked how much I'm enjoying these. Some punk and female vocal stuff could have sounded better going by the ~hour of listening I've done, but nothing sounds _bad_ with these.


----------



## povidlo

thefallenangelx said:


> Thanks, cant see review, it ask to sign up...
> Seeing you own ST-10s Gold, Dendroaspis Viridis. Whats your opinion on these?


I'm able to see all reviews without an account. Just using Chrome built-in translator to understand Chinese. 

ST-10s Gold and Dendroaspis Viridis are very different sounding. 

The former's sound signature is bass-focused and energetic with great note weight. It's a bass monster with some one of the best subbass I've heard across earbuds/iems/headphones, period. It needs a decent amp to shine. With tube amp, it sounds unbelievable. Tubes help to smooth out the high-mids peak as well. Mids are generally well-conveyed, not recessed, but vocals don't have that silky smoothness. Good extension on treble, it's a bit raw but has nice sparkle. 

The latter is mids-focused and laid-back. It sounds warm with appetizing mids. Vocals sound really good, not the best I've heard in earbuds but really good still. Bass is quite weak, but it EQs well to +5db on bass frequencies without distortion- bass levels are still nowhere close to ST-10s Gold levels though. Treble is also well extended but smoothed. Viridis doesn't need a powerful source to sound good.


----------



## jogawag (Apr 6, 2021)

thefallenangelx said:


> Thanks, cant see review, it ask to sign up...


You can see the Ansata Pro reviews in the comments TAB on the following page.
item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=635481931567

And if the Yincrow RW-2000 is too expensive and you want to buy earbuds now for less than 100€, I also recommend the Yincrow RW-1000 bass pro, which is one version before the RW-2000.

If you don't need MMCX, I also recommend the ShoonTH ESEP-01BL.
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=635481931567


----------



## likeafranfran

thefallenangelx said:


> Hi, anyone can suggest me annuograde to my current Openheart earbuds.
> Im leaning toward Toneking TO400s, Hessian Ansata pro (looks like ISN Rambo II) or Toneking Dendroaspis.
> Looking for big soundstage and imaging, great details and mid, balanced bass.
> Price below 100€.
> ...


Cloud talk about the Dendroaspis. is a good earbud but is not suitable for all genres. Is great for classical, jazz, and OST. In genres like pop or rock, not the best earbud. They have good imaging and sublime mids and highs in my opinion, the bass is the weaker point if you like especially their presence.


----------



## likeafranfran

thefallenangelx said:


> Thanks, cant see review, it ask to sign up...
> Seeing you own ST-10s Gold, Dendroaspis Viridis. Whats your opinion on these?


ST-10s Gold: easy to drive, good bass in my opinión. More versatile for all genres.

Dendroaspis: Rapid bass, not for bassheads. Ideal for Classical, jazz, and OST. If you love mids and highs it's your choice.


----------



## emusic13

> Cloud talk about the Dendroaspis. is a good earbud but is not suitable for all genres. Is great for classical, jazz, and OST. In genres like pop or rock, not the best earbud. They have good imaging and sublime mids and highs in my opinion, the bass is the weaker point if you like especially their presence.


I second the thoughts about Dendroaspis. Mids and highs are very good but bass is pretty light and I wouldn't even count myself as a basshead. Full foams take away from its strengths in the mids, donuts dont provide enough bass. Not an all rounder but good at certain genres.


----------



## shoebox

Has anyone tried any true wireless earbuds?
I have a pair of yincrow x6 that I enjoy very much but just died on me and was thinking of going wireless but hoping to maintain a similar sound quality.


----------



## likeafranfran

shoebox said:


> Has anyone tried any true wireless earbuds?
> I have a pair of yincrow x6 that I enjoy very much but just died on me and was thinking of going wireless but hoping to maintain a similar sound quality.


For the price difference, I do not recommend it. is a better option buy a new wired earbud or a new yincrow with MMCX. I had the Sennheiser momentum TWS and the experience was horrible. Drain battery, connection problems, and sound quality don't justify the price.


----------



## baskingshark

shoebox said:


> Has anyone tried any true wireless earbuds?
> I have a pair of yincrow x6 that I enjoy very much but just died on me and was thinking of going wireless but hoping to maintain a similar sound quality.



TWS sets are more for convenience rather than for sound quality when compared with wired gear. I do use TWS but haven't found one that matches wired gear in performance.

TWS also can be bottlenecked in these two areas, and may become obsolete in a few months:
1) battery life - tends to go down with repeated charges
2) bluetooth codec/tech

If u want a good compromise, u can consider a BT adapter, something like the TRN BT20, TRN TB20S, TRN BT20S Pro and iBasso CF01. They basically allow you to use a detachable earbud with these adapters, so u can preserve the sound quality of the IEM/earbud you like. Even if the BT tech or battery goes outdated, you can keep your favourite earbud/IEM and reuse it.


----------



## thefallenangelx

likeafranfran said:


> ST-10s Gold: easy to drive, good bass in my opinión. More versatile for all genres.
> 
> Dendroaspis: Rapid bass, not for bassheads. Ideal for Classical, jazz, and OST. If you love mids and highs it's your choice.





emusic13 said:


> I second the thoughts about Dendroaspis. Mids and highs are very good but bass is pretty light and I wouldn't even count myself as a basshead. Full foams take away from its strengths in the mids, donuts dont provide enough bass. Not an all rounder but good at certain genres.



thanks both.
I would not epect great bass performance, i mostly listen to progressive rock and progressive metal but i dislike bass being too prominent. My focus is on big soundstage, clear details and overall balanced presentation.

therefore maybe to400 and Dendroaspis could be still ok. In between the two i cant choose now, but i will be using a fiio amp with my lg v20.


----------



## 40760

thefallenangelx said:


> thanks both.
> I would not epect great bass performance, i mostly listen to progressive rock and progressive metal but i dislike bass being too prominent. My focus is on big soundstage, clear details and overall balanced presentation.
> 
> therefore maybe to400 and Dendroaspis could be still ok. In between the two i cant choose now, but i will be using a fiio amp with my lg v20.



The bass from Dendroaspis is simply underwhelming for those genres you listen to. They catered more for classical, jazz or vocals.


----------



## thefallenangelx

palestofwhite said:


> The bass from Dendroaspis is simply underwhelming for those genres you listen to. They catered more for classical, jazz or vocals.


Uhm...in that case TO400...?
Or Ansata pro?
Or Smabat ST10s silver (but a bit over m bdg)?


----------



## 40760

thefallenangelx said:


> Uhm...in that case TO400...?
> Or Ansata pro?
> Or Smabat ST10s silver (but a bit over m bdg)?



I have never heard the rest to formally comment, but based on other reviews TO400 does not seem to have as much bass as well. Ansata Pro is also anybody's guess.

You may want to look into TO180 or TO200? Reviews make them out to have more bass. TO600 might be too high impedance for your setup.


----------



## baskingshark

Actually earbuds can have quite good midbass quantities (I consider midbass as 60  -200 Hz frequencies), but most are weak in subbass extension (below 60 Hz), other than the Smabat types which have labryinth design to increase the subbass. 

The midbass provides the slam AKA punch AKA thickness in the bass frequencies and are the basslines that one can hear in music when a double bass or bass is playing, whereas the  subbass are in general more "felt" rather than "heard" as a visceral rumble. So it is this rumble that is lacking in earbuds, cause subbass frequencies are usually the first to be lost in poorer isolation, so that is a usual design issue for most earbuds, hence the lack of subbass in earbuds in general.


----------



## tylerxian

Can anyone suggest earbuds similar to the Headroom MS16, but a closed-back design? I.e semi in-ear, wired, button controls + mic, <$20 USD, and great sound for the price.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 7, 2021)

tylerxian said:


> Can anyone suggest earbuds similar to the Headroom MS16, but a closed-back design? I.e semi in-ear, wired, button controls + mic, <$20 USD, and great sound for the price.


Nearly all true earbuds are open-back by design. Utilizing various types of port systems and shell types (which sit outside of the ear canal) to accomplish this. So technically a closed-back earbud would be an IEM which fully seals within the ear canal.


----------



## 40760

I see there has been an influx of people coming in with different expectations of what earbuds actually are. They are unlike headphones whereby you can have a closed back or open back version.

They also do not sit inside the ear canal at all, not even "semi". For those, one may as well go fully in ears with IEMs or customs.

The beauty of earbuds is their open sound through somewhat of an unobtrusive fit, however sacrificing some mid bass due to lack of isolation. Again, that was why IEMs were created and the market moved over from earbuds.

So choose between IEMs or Earbuds. Having something in between does not seem to serve any beneficial points at all? I.e. Somebody posted a so called Bose "closed back" earbuds a few days back, but could not recommend them for the sound. I think that speaks volumes of such a category and the restrictions of creating one.


----------



## likeafranfran

palestofwhite said:


> The bass from Dendroaspis is simply underwhelming for those genres you listen to. They catered more for classical, jazz or vocals.


Totally agree


----------



## likeafranfran

palestofwhite said:


> I see there has been an influx of people coming in with different expectations of what earbuds actually are. They are unlike headphones whereby you can have a closed back or open back version.
> 
> They also do not sit inside the ear canal at all, not even "semi". For those, one may as well go fully in ears with IEMs or customs.
> 
> ...


You are right with your appointment. The sound rules of earbuds are different.


----------



## baskingshark

palestofwhite said:


> I see there has been an influx of people coming in with different expectations of what earbuds actually are. They are unlike headphones whereby you can have a closed back or open back version.
> 
> They also do not sit inside the ear canal at all, not even "semi". For those, one may as well go fully in ears with IEMs or customs.
> 
> ...



Yes agreed.
Earbuds are closer to open backed headphones than IEMs actually, in terms of soundstage.


----------



## 40760

baskingshark said:


> Yes agreed.
> Earbuds are closer to open backed headphones than IEMs actually, in terms of soundstage.



Yes that is correct. If even strictly speaking, more so like smaller on-ears, such as the Koss KSC35/75, Sennheiser PX100.


----------



## FranQL

thefallenangelx said:


> thanks both.
> I would not epect great bass performance, i mostly listen to progressive rock and progressive metal but i dislike bass being too prominent. My focus is on big soundstage, clear details and overall balanced presentation.
> 
> therefore maybe to400 and Dendroaspis could be still ok. In between the two i cant choose now, but i will be using a fiio amp with my lg v20.


For rock progressive / space rock ... Dendroaspis is perfectly valid and enjoyable, I enjoy them in that musical genre on a daily basis.


----------



## jao29

thefallenangelx said:


> thanks both.
> I would not epect great bass performance, i mostly listen to progressive rock and progressive metal but i dislike bass being too prominent. My focus is on big soundstage, clear details and overall balanced presentation.
> 
> therefore maybe to400 and Dendroaspis could be still ok. In between the two i cant choose now, but i will be using a fiio amp with my lg v20.


I have the Viridis and while I agree it does lack bass and sub-bass, the mids, highs and soundstage more than make up for the lack of lower frequencies. I still listen to them for genres of music that require a bit of low end and I still find them enjoyable.


----------



## FranQL (Apr 7, 2021)

FranQL said:


> For rock progressive / space rock ... Dendroaspis is perfectly valid and enjoyable, I enjoy them in that musical genre on a daily basis.


I think it is necessary to clarify about dendroaspis, reading comments gives the impression of not being recommended or being a real garbage. They have already spoken to you about the basses and subwoofers, but it is not that there is no bass, it is there, but it is not the protagonist, as an example the subwoofers do not rumble in your head and the drums do not have that extension in which you seem to notice the tension of the kick drum ... but ... what it does well it does very well, a clear, natural tone, wide sound, all the other frequencies, and more technical aspects in my opinion are superior to everything else I have heard, not a little higher, much higher. Sure, there are better ones, but it cost me € 52, which is important.

If we go to a bud with good bass options like ry4s plus, in my case I would choose dendroaspis every day of the year.

If you are looking for something low compared to iems, I think buds is not the place to look, if I want that flavor (I can live without powerful bass, but sometimes you want joy) and I use IEM as an example to help you use ZS7, Blon BL3 or Smabat Blackbat, but if I want a full sound I use another price range and to be honest there the bass is not the protagonist either.

We are also talking about a bud with a great metallic construction, light, small, with mmcx, it can be worn over the ear, and in my opinion cheap, and green ... 

Edit.: Another thing of Dendroaspis Viridis, if I want to listen to metal for example, in my DAP with high gain the problem is over, if I want to listen to Pink Floyd ... it is not necessary.


----------



## earfanatic

palestofwhite said:


> I have never heard the rest to formally comment, but based on other reviews TO400 does not seem to have as much bass as well. Ansata Pro is also anybody's guess.
> 
> You may want to look into TO180 or TO200? Reviews make them out to have more bass. TO600 might be too high impedance for your setup.


In my opinion an earphone shell design restricts the sound quantity (be it subbass or middle) so basically the type without bass ports will rarely have subbass. Think about speaker cabinet designs. 
These are small speakers, but the shell is often a jewelry more than an engineered cabinet.
After reading reviews and opinions, one can have an idea what type sounds similar, so you can choose a shell type rather than impedance and brand name.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Alex.Grimm said:


> I don’t even know what to advise you, as the new versions of the Yincrow's have a completely different sound.


So you're saying the new versions being manufactured of the Yincrow X6 sound different than the original?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

FranQL said:


> If we go to a bud with good bass options like ry4s plus, in my case I would choose dendroaspis every day of the year.


Are you saying people should skip the $7USD RY4S and just go for the $90USD Dendroaspis Virdis? 

Where do they get these names anyway... What does that mean?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Alex.Grimm said:


> I only know of the cheapest, but this is a small improvement RY4S plus mmcx, Willsound MK2.


I've heard the MK2 might be very similar to the RY4S Plus MMCX??


----------



## furyossa

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Are you saying people should skip the $7USD RY4S and just go for the $90USD Dendroaspis Virdis?
> 
> Where do they get these names anyway... What does that mean?


If you compare the price vs SQ than RY4S has better value. But I will consider rather RY4S Plus model. If you like metal shels and "MENTOS candy"-like shape then
D. Verdis is way to go. About the name https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15945191


----------



## rkw

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Are you saying people should skip the $7USD RY4S and just go for the $90USD Dendroaspis Virdis?
> 
> Where do they get these names anyway... What does that mean?


Googled it: *western green mamba* (_Dendroaspis viridis_)


----------



## likeafranfran

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Are you saying people should skip the $7USD RY4S and just go for the $90USD Dendroaspis Virdis?
> 
> Where do they get these names anyway... What does that mean?


Go for the snake boy! Is more expensive but is a win win in many aspects like building, mmcx connection, soundstage and more blahblah blah. Really enjoy them and is my main earbud for many situations.


----------



## thefallenangelx

likeafranfran said:


> Go for the snake boy! Is more expensive but is a win win in many aspects like building, mmcx connection, soundstage and more blahblah blah. Really enjoy them and is my main earbud for many situations.


Deal done! We’ll see when i’ll get them.
Took also smabat ST10s silver, just in case.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

palestofwhite said:


> I see there has been an influx of people coming in with different expectations of what earbuds actually are. They are unlike headphones whereby you can have a closed back or open back version.
> 
> They also do not sit inside the ear canal at all, not even "semi". For those, one may as well go fully in ears with IEMs or customs.
> 
> ...


I agree with everything you say. But earbuds serve many purposes. Yes, we all love the open sound. But some people could be willing to sacrifice the open quality for isolation, if they can’t stand weight (over ear headphones) or ear canal rape (IEM).
The Bose I was referring to may not have been strictly speaking an earbud (still not sure as there are many mainstream companies that call “earbuds” earphones that go deeper inside than the Bose SoundTrue Ultra; just type earbuds on Amazon and you’ll see), but it sure feels like one, or very close to it.


----------



## FranQL (Apr 8, 2021)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Are you saying people should skip the $7USD RY4S and just go for the $90USD Dendroaspis Virdis?
> 
> Where do they get these names anyway... What does that mean?


I did not skip them, if I did not have them I could not give my opinion.


----------



## likeafranfran

thefallenangelx said:


> Deal done! We’ll see when i’ll get them.
> Took also smabat ST10s silver, just in case.


Two good choices man! I wanna know your impressions when arriving.


----------



## arar

Alright, my NiceHCK's MX500's are finally in the country too. Pretty excited to give them a try and see how they stack up against the X6's.


----------



## nofarewell

Hi All, sorry if this was already mentioned (I could not find it though) - is the Fiio EM5 worth to buy? *Moreover, any comparisons with the Aiwa HP-V99? *Because I saw that the V99 inspired the EM5 in the first place and I became interested. Cheers.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Yincrow RW-2000 impressions:

Bass is very clean and is fun at the same time due to the boost. Speed, tightness and texture are top tier.

Mids are excellent with very good tonality for both male and female vocals and clarity/detail are very good despite the high bass quantity.

Treble is airy as most buds are and treble extension is good as well, very non-fatiguing but detailed treble.

Technicalities are very good but most notable is the huge soundstage and that the timbre is excellent as most buds.

Comparison with the Yincrow X6:

The sub-bass is lower on the RW-2000 and doesn’t rumble as much either. Extension is similar. But otherwise, the speed, tightness and texture are better on the RW-2000 while the overall bass is very similar.

Mids and treble are a lot better on the RW-2000 and the tonality is brighter than the warm X6 and is more neutral than the X6.

Technicalities and overall resolution are leagues ahead on the RW-2000.

This might be my favorite bud and worthy of being called a TOTL bud.


----------



## 40760

RikudouGoku said:


> The sub-bass is lower on the RW-2000 and doesn’t rumble as much either. Extension is similar. But otherwise, the speed, tightness and texture are better on the RW-2000 while the overall bass is very similar.


I agree with this. And everything else is just way better. Worthy of TOTL tuning status.


----------



## RikudouGoku

palestofwhite said:


> I agree with this. And everything else is just way better. Worthy of TOTL tuning status.


The sub-bass difference is probably due to the deeper fit you get with the MX500 shell.


----------



## 40760

RikudouGoku said:


> The sub-bass difference is probably due to the deeper fit you get with the MX500 shell.



I think MX500 shells sits in my ears a lot better. I'm not sure if it is the smaller diameter or protruding shell of the RW-2000, but I cannot get them to stay in place for long without having to readjust. Maybe this can be fixed by wearing them with ear hooks or cables behind the ears but it is not what I particularly like to do with earbuds. I tried stacking multiple foams but ended up just using very porous VE foams. 

Fit was the main reason I did not keep this pair but I still miss its sound at times. Maybe I'll get another pair sometime later.


----------



## RikudouGoku

palestofwhite said:


> I think MX500 shells sits in my ears a lot better. I'm not sure if it is the smaller diameter or protruding shell of the RW-2000, but I cannot get them to stay in place for long without having to readjust. Maybe this can be fixed by wearing them with ear hooks or cables behind the ears but it is not what I particularly like to do with earbuds. I tried stacking multiple foams but ended up just using very porous VE foams.
> 
> Fit was the main reason I did not keep this pair but I still miss its sound at times. Maybe I'll get another pair sometime later.


Indeed, mx500 works the best for me as well. 

But fortunately I didn't have any problems with the RW-2000.


----------



## 40760

RikudouGoku said:


> Indeed, mx500 works the best for me as well.
> 
> But fortunately I didn't have any problems with the RW-2000.



I think I could have fixed the issue with with some rubber rings or something. If you can get a good fit out of the box then it's a keeper. I cannot name another pair similar to it for the price and performance. Not to mention the built quality and cables are really good too.


----------



## digititus (Apr 8, 2021)

I wear the RW-1000 over ear with the driver angling in slightly so that they are firing direct into the ear canal. This is the best sound and most stable fit (when stationary) for me. YMMV.

Edit: Pull the cable tight using the chin slider when used over ear. This helps with fit stability


----------



## jogawag (Apr 8, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> I think I could have fixed the issue with with some rubber rings or something. If you can get a good fit out of the box then it's a keeper. I cannot name another pair similar to it for the price and performance. Not to mention the built quality and cables are really good too.


You could use the following cheap porous and thick foams. Then you could cover it with red and blue donut foams to make double foams and increase the bass.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33019313027.html


----------



## povidlo

High impedance versions of PT2021 are now available on AE.


----------



## 40760

povidlo said:


> High impedance versions of PT2021 are now available on AE.


The shell design looks like EM5 on steroids...


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> Yincrow RW-2000 impressions:
> 
> Bass is very clean and is fun at the same time due to the boost. Speed, tightness and texture are top tier.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the impressions! Any comparisons with your other TOTL sets like the NiceHCK EBX21 or Turandot?



povidlo said:


> High impedance versions of PT2021 are now available on AE.



Nice thanks for the headsup. Anybody tried the lower impedance ones before?


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for the impressions! Any comparisons with your other TOTL sets like the NiceHCK EBX21 or Turandot?


I will in due time, trying to get first impressions out of the stuff I ordered during the sale with the little time I got.


----------



## povidlo

baskingshark said:


> Nice thanks for the headsup. Anybody tried the lower impedance ones before?



@Alex.Grimm tried them, here.

@mochill has 365 ohm version, would be great to hear his impressions as well.


----------



## davjac84

thefallenangelx said:


> thanks both.
> I would not epect great bass performance, i mostly listen to progressive rock and progressive metal but i dislike bass being too prominent. My focus is on big soundstage, clear details and overall balanced presentation.
> 
> therefore maybe to400 and Dendroaspis could be still ok. In between the two i cant choose now, but i will be using a fiio amp with my lg v20.


I can recomend TO400s, if you would like a bit more bass the TO600 has that. I love both buds. My source is V30, they sound amazing from that phone.
I have not tried Dendroaspis unfortunately. If they have at least the same amount of bass as TO400s I wouldn't worry, if less then maybe they are nono for most people..


----------



## thefallenangelx

likeafranfran said:


> Two good choices man! I wanna know your impressions when arriving.


Sure!


davjac84 said:


> I can recomend TO400s, if you would like a bit more bass the TO600 has that. I love both buds. My source is V30, they sound amazing from that phone.
> I have not tried Dendroaspis unfortunately. If they have at least the same amount of bass as TO400s I wouldn't worry, if less then maybe they are nono for most people..


for now ive pressed the button for Dendroaspis and Smabat ST10s. Let’s see


----------



## likeafranfran

Hi! Someone try this portable dac/amp with high pedance earbuds?

CLP 115,692 | Xduoo XD05 Basic In dependent Digital Audio Terminal AK4490 USB DAC Headphone Amplifier Optical Coaxial Decoding 500mW Output
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mLcN6O7


----------



## mochill

Finally got em5


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 9, 2021)

likeafranfran said:


> Hi! Someone try this portable dac/amp with high pedance earbuds?
> 
> CLP 115,692 | Xduoo XD05 Basic In dependent Digital Audio Terminal AK4490 USB DAC Headphone Amplifier Optical Coaxial Decoding 500mW Output
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mLcN6O7


Yes, it was great until it died on me after 4-5 months of full daily use. Tropical humidity first attacked the volume pot (a scratchiness that progressed to full drop outs in sound on either/both channels... which electrical contact cleaner spray just couldn't solve permanently); battery recharging started acting up; BT receiver range decreased and the battery misbehaved as well; and then a final failure of the amp itself. I was so disgusted I didn't even investigate the amp failure, outside of replacing the op-amps with no success, and simply tossed it into the trash. I hated the rattle they are known to make as a rather large and unruly capacitor would bounce/rub against the inside of the metal case (such a tight fit that thermal tape was impossible to use to cushion/isolate the part from the metal case).

Others have had a much better experience with Xduoo than I. It is indeed a very powerful headAMP and can drive nearly anything out there besides those few oddball low sensitivity power hungry full-sized headphones. Though I think the tech is outdated now and it's age is showing even with the latest updated balanced version.


----------



## slex (Apr 9, 2021)

likeafranfran said:


> Hi! Someone try this portable dac/amp with high pedance earbuds?
> 
> CLP 115,692 | Xduoo XD05 Basic In dependent Digital Audio Terminal AK4490 USB DAC Headphone Amplifier Optical Coaxial Decoding 500mW Output
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mLcN6O7


This is tube amp ( Laidys ), it's powerhouse for high impedance earbuds if you dun need dac. Below connected to Quedelix😊. Tried my Orin 450 Ohm earbuds, at 25% of the Volume knob is sufficient loud enough.


----------



## Lillie

mochill said:


> Finally got em5


So did I ....what do you think of them!


----------



## mochill

Full  and natural with big soundstage and realistic tone of vocals , bass is powerful too


----------



## FranQL

They arrived, when I listen completely to make an assessment, I will comment on the value of these buds.


----------



## Lillie

mochill said:


> Full  and natural with big soundstage and realistic tone of vocals , bass is powerful too


I agree with you, very easy to listen to.


----------



## thefallenangelx

FranQL said:


> They arrived, when I listen completely to make an assessment, I will comment on the value of these buds.


Cool! TO600?


----------



## FranQL

Yep, I wanted to test high impedance, and well it's here.

I made other impulse purchases to try more buds pk (totally unnecessary, but I will be able to see how good the price range 10 - 15 $ is).


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 8, 2021)

My *Blur 266 MX64 aPs (64Ω); 2.5TRRS Balanced; No.1 *earbuds arrived this morning from Singapore from *Wong*.

The "266" indicates cabling; 2 x 133-core per side. MX represents the Type 1 MX500 shell used. 64 is the impedance. And "aPs" indicates *A*ir *P*ocket *S*hell which is a physical upgrade Wong has made to the Type I MX500 shell. He has engineered an "_air pocket within the shell. The name said it all and is basically like lung. This air pocket will keep/maintain certain pressure inside the shell (or drivers back pressure )_".

This is the very first aPs model made with a 64Ω driver and the fifth aPs model overall:

1st aPs: 173 MX300 300Ω (_~DEC 2021_)​2nd aPs: 173 MX400 400Ω (_~JAN 2021_)​3rd aPs: 173 MX150 150Ω (_~FEB 2021_)​4th aPs: 266 MX400 400Ω (_~MAR 2021_)​5th aPs: 266 MX64 64Ω (_~MAR 2021_)​
Even though it will take me a week or two before I completely adjust and understand this upgraded Blur House Sound, I will say that I immediately could hear a noticeable upgrade in the sound signature. While still remaining very detailed-oriented with the standard Blur mid-range prominence, the bass is now deeper and punchier and the sound seems to be smoother (more relaxing)! When A-B'ing between these and my older Blurs (*Blur 美魔女 Beautiful Witch 300Ω*) the difference in the bass is dramatic between the two although it still is not at a basshead lover's level.

I am very interested in seeing how ear-friendly this upgraded signature will be and if there is any naughty treble or concerning sibilance that may cause me listening fatigue. I have Listened to them now for over four hours thus far with no fatigue to speak of yet... keeping my fingers crossed as my older Blurs were so detailed (overly so, somewhere in the lower treble) that I sometimes will get headaches/earaches after prolonged listening sessions.

Microphonics is minimal (minor) considering the usage of stiff multicore cabling coupled with the notoriously echoey MX shell.

I have assessed their sensitivity to be at ~103 dB/mW as they coincidentally "volume match" perfectly (within 0.25-0.50 dB) with my *Ksearphone Bell-Ti 120Ω *earbuds which have a sensitivity of ~106 dB/mW.



 




Spoiler: Blur 266 MX64 aPs 64Ω - More Pics


----------



## nofarewell

Lillie said:


> So did I ....what do you think of them!


That would be my question as well, especially compared to the Aiwa HP-V99


----------



## Timoteew

Well guess who arrived...




Review of the Smabat ST-10s gold to come shortly!


----------



## Timoteew

As an aside the Smabat ST-10s gold matches the Cayin N3Pro pretty damn perfectly:


----------



## thefallenangelx

Timoteew said:


> As an aside the Smabat ST-10s gold matches the Cayin N3Pro pretty damn perfectly:


Do you think they can be worn with cable up?


----------



## Timoteew

thefallenangelx said:


> Do you think they can be worn with cable up?


You mean down? I have an mmcx cable without an ear hook so will test it for you, though I suspect it will be wearable either way.


----------



## thefallenangelx

Timoteew said:


> You mean down? I have an mmcx cable without an ear hook so will test it for you, though I suspect it will be wearable either way.


Sorry my mistake. Yep, cable down, as normal earbuds. Not IEM style with cable up. Thanks


----------



## baskingshark

thefallenangelx said:


> Sorry my mistake. Yep, cable down, as normal earbuds. Not IEM style with cable up. Thanks



Yes the SMABAT type earbuds can mostly be worn cable down or cable up. That increases fit options for this series.


----------



## 40760

FranQL said:


> They arrived, when I listen completely to make an assessment, I will comment on the value of these buds.



Already looking forward to your assessment! My order got cancelled so I ordered the PS100-500 instead. I was given a tracking number earlier last week, but still no movement after so many days.


----------



## likeafranfran

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, it was great until it died on me after 4-5 months of full daily use. Tropical humidity first attacked the volume pot (a scratchiness that progressed to full drop outs in sound on either/both channels... which electrical contact cleaner spray just couldn't solve permanently); battery recharging started acting up; BT receiver range decreased and the battery misbehaved as well; and then a final failure of the amp itself. I was so disgusted I didn't even investigate the amp failure, outside of replacing the op-amps with no success, and simply tossed it into the trash. I hated the rattle they are known to make as a rather large and unruly capacitor would bounce/rub against the inside of the metal case (such a tight fit that thermal tape was impossible to use to cushion/isolate the part from the metal case).
> 
> Others have had a much better experience with Xduoo than I. It is indeed a very powerful headAMP and can drive nearly anything out there besides those few oddball low sensitivity power hungry full-sized headphones. Though I think the tech is outdated now and it's age is showing even with the latest updated balanced version.


Thanks for your impressions. it is assumed with the basic solve this issues but is good know it. The XD05 basic is my first option, many users in my country said is a great dac amp.


----------



## likeafranfran

slex said:


> This is tube amp ( Laidys ), it's powerhouse for high impedance earbuds if you dun need dac. Below connected to Quedelix😊. Tried my Orin 450 Ohm earbuds, at 25% of the Volume knob is sufficient loud enough.


Do you have a link to view it???


----------



## slex

likeafranfran said:


> Do you have a link to view it???


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/talking-synergy.957122/


----------



## profusion

FranQL said:


> totally unnecessary, but I will be able to see how good the price range 10 - 15 $ is).


which ones?


----------



## profusion

I got my Openhearts earbuds, bad luck but my left piece is making cracking noises when there is more bass  I opened disput on Ali . Oh I hate it....


----------



## FranQL (Apr 10, 2021)

profusion said:


> which ones?


I already had two 150 ohm PK1 DIY and another 32 Ohm PK2 DIY, I bought these:

NiceHCK B40 and NiceHCK PK1


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Apr 10, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Yes the SMABAT type earbuds can mostly be worn cable down or cable up. That increases fit options for this series.


ST-10 series fit good only with cable ear hook


----------



## likeafranfran

FranQL said:


> I already had two 150 ohm PK1 DIY and another 32 Ohm PK2 DIY, I bought these:
> 
> NiceHCK B40 and NiceHCK PK1


NiceHCK B40 is a good choice for the price. Totally recommended.


----------



## likeafranfran

Auto Birthday Gift jaja. Can you recommend good and chap customs earbuds options???


----------



## WoodyLuvr

More *Blur* Updates... Wong is really banging out orders these days.



Spoiler: Blur Earbuds


----------



## baskingshark

WoodyLuvr said:


> More *Blur* Updates... Wong is really banging out orders these days.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Blur Earbuds



Does he do any earbuds with detachable MMCX connectors?

i'm a bit hesistant to spend more than $50 USD on a set without detachable cables, just a personal preference.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

baskingshark said:


> Does he do any earbuds with detachable MMCX connectors?
> 
> i'm a bit hesistant to spend more than $50 USD on a set without detachable cables, just a personal preference.


Yes, indeed he does by request.


----------



## buzzyman

palestofwhite said:


> Just ordered 2 VE Ex Packs. How I wish their thin porous foams were sold in bulk. Anyone can recommend any alternative options that are similar?


Thin foams like ve monk but almost free)
https://a.aliexpress.com/_9yajuX


----------



## Trzystatrzy

Hey,
I got Yincrow X6, which broke quickly. I like the bass - it wasn't muddy and it got quite good kick and rumble. Fine quality of highs and good soundstage, but they sounds little too bright and little too less warmth. What would you recommend for me at this budget with this requirements? It would be great if it will have Yuin like housing, but mx500 type is fine too.


----------



## likeafranfran

Trzystatrzy said:


> Hey,
> I got Yincrow X6, which broke quickly. I like the bass - it wasn't muddy and it got quite good kick and rumble. Fine quality of highs and good soundstage, but they sounds little too bright and little too less warmth. What would you recommend for me at this budget with this requirements? It would be great if it will have Yuin like housing, but mx500 type is fine too.


NiceHCK earbuds is a good option.

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/32823569005.html?spm=a219c.12010612.8148356.15.1bcb769cJjWE0A


----------



## shenshen

Got these in today, VE Zen Omega


----------



## shenshen

shenshen said:


> Got these in today, VE Zen Omega


First Impressions:
Wow, um ok people were NOT exaggerating when they said foams ruin the sound of these. I have always run foams on my earbuds, but they really muddy the sound and bloat the bass on these. It's astonishing the difference between naked and foam on the Zens. Donuts made a tiny difference, still overwhelmingly warm. Taking off the foams I was quite relieved to find the sound clear up dramatically. Warm and rich sound with an impressive soundstage. Might have to invest in some silicon covers for these. I'm still feeling a bit of the dramatic difference in sound between naked and foam haha


----------



## Trzystatrzy

Mrz Toneking Tomahawk - still good at this price?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

got new earbuds


Spoiler


----------



## furyossa

Alex.Grimm said:


> got new earbuds
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Is this model in question? HESSIAN Ansata Pro
https://penonaudio.com/hessian-ansata-pro.html


----------



## Alex.Grimm

furyossa said:


> Is this model in question? HESSIAN Ansata Pro
> https://penonaudio.com/hessian-ansata-pro.html


Yes


----------



## furyossa

Alex.Grimm said:


> Yes


First impression?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

furyossa said:


> First impression?


With donuts foams nice bass, good vocal, comfortable high frequencies are not accented. Emphasis on the middle vocal and low frequencies. After change stock cable, high frequencies have improved in quality.


----------



## jao29

Any ksearphone onmyoji users here? The black white version? Cant seem to tell which is the left and right earpiece for the earbuds. TIA


----------



## RikudouGoku

jao29 said:


> Any ksearphone onmyoji users here? The black white version? Cant seem to tell which is the left and right earpiece for the earbuds. TIA


----------



## 40760

jao29 said:


> Any ksearphone onmyoji users here? The black white version? Cant seem to tell which is the left and right earpiece for the earbuds. TIA



For my Ksearphone LBBS, the side with the logo is right.


----------



## jao29

will try this! Thank you!


----------



## Luis1316

jao29 said:


> Any ksearphone onmyoji users here? The black white version? Cant seem to tell which is the left and right earpiece for the earbuds. TIA



White right black left, but yeah, It's not hard to figure it out.


----------



## jao29

Ive been testing the Onmyoji’s for about an hour now and there’s one thing bothering me. While the sound quality is amazing, there’s one thing Ive noticed. The metal that’s behind the earbud jack is kind of loose.. You can spin it around and thankfully it wont come off. The thing that’s bothering me though is that the said metal, when you spin it, is kind of rough, the texture of it is rough and you can feel it when you spin the metal. This is kind of hard to explain but Ive posted a pic of the said metal. Hopefully you guys can shed some light on this as its one of the best earbuds, if not the best earbud I currently have.


----------



## Luis1316

jao29 said:


> Ive been testing the Onmyoji’s for about an hour now and there’s one thing bothering me. While the sound quality is amazing, there’s one thing Ive noticed. The metal that’s behind the earbud jack is kind of loose.. You can spin it around and thankfully it wont come off. The thing that’s bothering me though is that the said metal, when you spin it, is kind of rough, the texture of it is rough and you can feel it when you spin the metal. This is kind of hard to explain but Ive posted a pic of the said metal. Hopefully you guys can shed some light on this as its one of the best earbuds, if not the best earbud I currently have.


Oh no... Just... Don't spin it?


----------



## jao29 (Apr 14, 2021)

@Luis1316 Okay. 😊 You don’t need to be rude about it. Also, Im not familiar with the color schemes when it comes to left and right indicators, that’s why Im asking here in this thread.


----------



## 40760

jao29 said:


> Ive been testing the Onmyoji’s for about an hour now and there’s one thing bothering me. While the sound quality is amazing, there’s one thing Ive noticed. The metal that’s behind the earbud jack is kind of loose.. You can spin it around and thankfully it wont come off. The thing that’s bothering me though is that the said metal, when you spin it, is kind of rough, the texture of it is rough and you can feel it when you spin the metal. This is kind of hard to explain but Ive posted a pic of the said metal. Hopefully you guys can shed some light on this as its one of the best earbuds, if not the best earbud I currently have.



Is the metal barrel free spinning or does it spin and unscrew itself? Usually the plug section is screwed into the metal barrel, which is the plug cover.

Is it possible to turn it in until it fully tightens?


----------



## earfanatic (Apr 14, 2021)

jao29 said:


> Ive been testing the Onmyoji’s for about an hour now and there’s one thing bothering me. While the sound quality is amazing, there’s one thing Ive noticed. The metal that’s behind the earbud jack is kind of loose.. You can spin it around and thankfully it wont come off. The thing that’s bothering me though is that the said metal, when you spin it, is kind of rough, the texture of it is rough and you can feel it when you spin the metal. This is kind of hard to explain but Ive posted a pic of the said metal. Hopefully you guys can shed some light on this as its one of the best earbuds, if not the best earbud I currently have.


It happens on some plugs. The cover is just screwed on I think, pull out the plug from the device, and turn the cover clockwise with the plug facing as you pictured it, while holding the connector end with the other hand. It is like a screw cap. It may not move smoothly, because it is crowded inside with those cables. Dont force it.


----------



## jao29

palestofwhite said:


> Is the metal barrel free spinning or does it spin and unscrew itself? Usually the plug section is screwed into the metal barrel, which is the plug cover.
> 
> Is it possible to turn it in until it fully tightens?


Thanks! I think its fixed now, but it doesn’t really fully tighten itself. Fortunately, there is no longer a sort of space that’s visible like the pic I posted before.


----------



## 40760

jao29 said:


> Thanks! I think its fixed now, but it doesn’t really fully tighten itself. Fortunately, there is no longer a sort of space that’s visible like the pic I posted before.



That's great! Just as @earfanatic mentioned, some manufacturers choose not to glue these 2 parts together, so you can somewhat unscrew it. I have another Ksearphone, the K300 Samsara, which does this as well.

I can tell the metal barrel on your Onmyoji looks quite slim, so the rough rubbing sensation is likely caused by the cables rubbing on the inner walls of the barrel. As long as it is tightened in place (without gap) and you don't screw and unscrew it too much, it shouldn't be a big problem.


----------



## jao29

palestofwhite said:


> That's great! Just as @earfanatic mentioned, some manufacturers choose not to glue these 2 parts together, so you can somewhat unscrew it. I have another Ksearphone, the K300 Samsara, which does this as well.
> 
> I can tell the metal barrel on your Onmyoji looks quite slim, so the rough rubbing sensation is likely caused by the cables rubbing on the inner walls of the barrel. As long as it is tightened in place (without gap) and you don't screw and unscrew it too much, it shouldn't be a big problem.


Yeah. Is it okay though that it won’t fully tightened itself? The good thing is that it doesnt have the gap anymore, but you can still spin the barrel even when it doesn’t have the gap anymore. Thanks again! 😊


----------



## 40760

jao29 said:


> Yeah. Is it okay though that it won’t fully tightened itself? The good thing is that it doesnt have the gap anymore, but you can still spin the barrel even when it doesn’t have the gap anymore. Thanks again! 😊



I think there are a few Onmyoji owners here. Another member just bought a set not too long ago. Hopefully he sees your posts and can chime in on this. But if this spinning thing affects you enough, you should definitely check with the seller and see what they recommend.


----------



## profusion

Did someone try FENGRU Diy PT52?


----------



## likeafranfran

Just for curiosity i buy this models top of high-end hahahaha. I listen a quite hours and say my impressions. Spoiler: probably will be bad.


----------



## rprodrigues

profusion said:


> Did someone try FENGRU Diy PT52?


I did. I ended up keeping only its shells for some DIY projects.


----------



## rprodrigues

Mail call...



Spoiler










I'm very impressed with LBBS, but not that much with RW-2000.
Let's figure out what I'm going to get after some burning in.


----------



## Sam L

rprodrigues said:


> Mail call...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Been away from the forums...    what's the LBBS?


----------



## rprodrigues

Sam L said:


> Been away from the forums...    what's the LBBS?


It's the new K's Bell-lb.


----------



## 40760

I like the LBBS too...


----------



## Sam L (Apr 14, 2021)

rprodrigues said:


> It's the new K's Bell-lb.


is this it? or is this the old one?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html

**edit**
ah, nm I think it's this one? little black bell s version
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001291477653.html


----------



## Sam L

Trzystatrzy said:


> Hey,
> I got Yincrow X6, which broke quickly. I like the bass - it wasn't muddy and it got quite good kick and rumble. Fine quality of highs and good soundstage, but they sounds little too bright and little too less warmth. What would you recommend for me at this budget with this requirements? It would be great if it will have Yuin like housing, but mx500 type is fine too.


Honestly, I'd just buy a bunch of x6's and eq to taste. Such a good earbud... at any price.


----------



## rprodrigues

Sam L said:


> is this it? or is this the old one?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html
> 
> ...



It is the second link, option C, as you pointed (Little Black Bell S).


----------



## n00b (Apr 15, 2021)

Can anyone compare fit between NiceHCK ME80 and the EBX21? I just dug through my hoard of chifi buds I bought years ago and realize I had the ME80 and it sounds and fits quite nice, doing some research here shows it's well received. I would like an upgrade but not sure if the EBX21 is the way to go. I love the way it looks, the detachable cable, and supposed clarity as I think that's the only thing I'm missing from the ME80. I'm happy with the ME80s bass quantity, I just feel some lower end notes are lost/muddled. According to reviews I've read, it seems like low end quantity is one drawback of the EBX21 but I'm ok with that, given it's an earbud. I do feel pretty sensitive to sibilance though, and I've read the EBX21's tuning is more of a bright neutral. Any advice would be appreciated!

EDIT: Rephrasing this to make it more clear that I'm asking for advice, not giving a comparison between the ME80 and EBX21. I currently own the ME80 but have not auditioned the EBX21 and am curious about it.  lol


----------



## baskingshark

n00b said:


> Can anyone compare fit between NiceHCK ME80 and the EBX21? I just dug through my hoard of chifi buds I bought years ago and realize I had the ME80 and it sounds and fits quite nice, doing some research here shows it's well received. I would like an upgrade but not sure if the EBX21 is the way to go. I love the way it looks, the detachable cable, and supposed clarity as I think that's the only thing I'm missing from the ME80. I'm happy with the ME80s bass quantity, I just feel some lower end notes are lost/muddled. According to reviews I've read, it seems like low end quantity is one drawback of the EBX21 but I'm ok with that, given it's an earbud. I do feel pretty sensitive to sibilance though, and I've read the EBX21's tuning is more of a bright neutral. Any advice would be appreciated!
> 
> EDIT: Rephrasing this to make it more clear that I'm asking for advice, not giving a comparison between the ME80 and EBX21. I currently own the ME80 but have not auditioned the EBX21 and am curious about it.  lol



Both sets have a lack of subbass (common in most earbuds). EBX21 is a bit brighter, but not sibilant or harsh.
EBX21 is miles ahead in technical performance -> instrument separation, clarity, imaging, details. ME80 sounds very muffled in comparison. Bass quality is also better on EBX21.
EBX21 has of course a detachable cable, compared to the non detachable ME80.
Timbre is slightly better on EBX21, but ME80 is no slouch.

For fit wise, I think the EBX21 is slightly worse, I need to put 2 layers of foam to thicken the fit in the ear, but YMMV as we have different ear anatomies. The stock cable of the EBX21 is rather heavy, and it tends to yank the earbud out of the ear. Accessories are of course much better on the EBX21 considering the price and TOTL namesake.

Anyways, the EBX21 is 10 times or so the price of the ME80, so not a fair comparison. I think in tonality and timbre the ME80 holds up very well against the EBX21, but it loses a lot in the technicalities department. Is getting good technicalities of paramount importance for you, such that you will need to pay up for the diminishing returns? That's the most important question to answer, as I think the ME80 is a very good set for the price if you can close one eye for the lack of technicalities.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

.


----------



## Sam L

rprodrigues said:


> It is the second link, option C, as you pointed (Little Black Bell S).


thanks, ordered!


----------



## arar (Apr 16, 2021)

So what earbuds should I be looking at if I want the same(-ish) warm and bassy and intimate sound signature as the Yincrow X6 but with a detachable cable? I recently got the ZMF Aeolus and while I'm loving the sound, I can't (at least currently) really wear them all day, so I think I'd like to get a nice pair of extremely comfy earbuds for gaming and other PC activities that have me wearing headphones for long periods of time and where the sound quality isn't THAT important. That obviously means I'm looking for something that'll last me a long time - the rest of my life, if at all possible.

My amp is also a bit far so would also love some recommendations for longer cables for said earbuds. 1.5 to 2 meters would be great.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

arar said:


> So what earbuds should I be looking at if I want the same(-ish) warm and bassy and intimate sound signature as the Yincrow X6 but with a detachable cable?


Yinman600


----------



## uneri (Jun 24, 2021)

‎


----------



## arar

Alex.Grimm said:


> Yinman600


This one seems like a good TOTL choice, but apparently dang hard to get anymore? One seller on AE who claims to have thousands of them in stock but apparently, in truth, has none?


uneri said:


> JCALLY EP09


This one looks good though, thanks! Not seeing many impressions of it in this thread (or anywhere else) so I'm gonna have to take your word on the sound signature lol, but at least it's cheap. 32 bucks.

As for the cable thing, I think I'm just gonna get a 3.5mm to 3.5mm 1m extension cable or something. Can't find long MMCX cables for the life of me.


----------



## RikudouGoku

arar said:


> As for the cable thing, I think I'm just gonna get a 3.5mm to 3.5mm 1m extension cable or something. Can't find long MMCX cables for the life of me.



Ask XINHS to make a custom cable for you and specify the lenght you want.
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/910746107

This is my nr 1 cable: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002350509830.html
You can ask for a custom cable of that one, where it is longer and without ear hooks if you want.


----------



## arar

RikudouGoku said:


> Ask XINHS to make a custom cable for you and specify the lenght you want.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/910746107
> 
> This is my nr 1 cable: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002350509830.html
> You can ask for a custom cable of that one, where it is longer and without ear hooks if you want.


Nice, those are some pretty cables. Are they heavy? I don't really like wearing the cable hooked over my hear so very heavy cables won't really work for me.


----------



## RikudouGoku

arar said:


> Nice, those are some pretty cables. Are they heavy? I don't really like wearing the cable hooked over my hear so very heavy cables won't really work for me.


That one is an 8 core cable, so thats where the weight is from. 

You can check his other cables that are 2-4 cores instead, they are lighter.

Like this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001843312645.html


----------



## arar

RikudouGoku said:


> That one is an 8 core cable, so thats where the weight is from.
> 
> You can check his other cables that are 2-4 cores instead, they are lighter.
> 
> Like this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001843312645.html



Goddamn if _that_ isn't a pretty cable. Thanks for the help, I'll message them later when I actually get my hands on earbuds with detachable cables.


----------



## RikudouGoku

arar said:


> Goddamn if _that_ isn't a pretty cable. Thanks for the help, I'll message them later when I actually get my hands on earbuds with detachable cables.









Cable A12 in my database.


----------



## earfanatic

arar said:


> So what earbuds should I be looking at if I want the same(-ish) warm and bassy and intimate sound signature as the Yincrow X6 but with a detachable cable?


Mod it. If you want a 2m cable, then it is also possible.


----------



## arar

earfanatic said:


> Mod it. If you want a 2m cable, then it is also possible.



Sounds... Hard. But the X6s are so cheap that I might even give that a try. I don't expect there to be step-by-step guides for this particular mod for these buds specifically, but got any good resources to help me get started? Guides for similar mods for similar buds or something.


----------



## groucho69

https://www.audioreviews.org/remembering-thomas-wilson-alias-the-hungrypanda-jk/


----------



## 40760

Just ordered another pair of LBBS...


----------



## RuFrost (Apr 16, 2021)

Collected the best pieces I could get at once during my research of portable set-up "earbuds+dap" in the last 4 years. Really like them all. (Have not tried earbuds above 250$ and DAPs above 1000$).




1) C4 Pro, C4 Pro mod, c10 mod, Calyx M, Opus #3, Aune m2 Pro, DTR1, Fiio M3k.
2) ABnormal labs Diomnes LV2, Equilibrium mk2 by master Islam, Toneking Viridis (+custom cable), DQSM Turandot, Shozy SG, Puresound PS100-260.
3) OLD, BUT GOLD! Imho, C4 Pro in terms of sound is the best available DAP for earbuds that the one can get\find currently. Unfortunately, nothing come close. Yes, all other daps which are shown and not - can sound really good, but A\B comparison just ends it all))
4) Earbuds are very different - there are just too much sound signatures. In terms of universality\versatility among all parametres - Equilibrium mk2 hands down is the best option.


----------



## 51days

RuFrost said:


> Collected the best pieces I could get at once during my research of portable set-up "earbuds+dap" in the last 4 years. Really like them all. (Have not tried earbuds above 250$ and DAPs above 1000$).
> 
> 
> 1) C4 Pro, C4 Pro mod, c10 mod, Calyx M, Opus #3, Aune m2 Pro, DTR1, Fiio M3k.
> ...


Amazing collection! What makes the C4 Pro so special soundwise? Same question about the Eq. MK2.


----------



## RuFrost (Apr 16, 2021)

51days said:


> Amazing collection! What makes the C4 Pro so special soundwise? Same question about the Eq. MK2.


It is hard to describe it in words, in written way and in English)) To put it shortly:
1) C4 Pro and c10 mod have natural sound presentation - they are description of analogue sound among DAPs in comparison with digital, not natural sound. In comparison, all android devices in this or that degree have some artificiality. OS influence sound a lot, actually.
2) Colorflyes drives drivers\dynamics of earbuds much better in terms of authority, deepness, massiveness and overall scale. C4 Pro has widest scene and at the same time it is deep and high. For example, in comparison, even though Opus 3 and Calyx M have amazing, fun and precise sound signature, everything sounds a little bit on the distance.
3) Consequently, extensions on all spectre of frequencies are better and longer. Vocals and wind instruments are instant and the most obvious beneficiaries.  
4) Finally, realism of scene representation is phenomenal.

Equilibrium mk2 is practical earbuds - survive through tough situations, sits in the ear very well and in different positions of the body. Also, they do sound great even without foams. Sound is very wide, open, with lots of air and has good amount of bass - no "too light" feelings (in comparison, ps100-260, Turandot, SHOZY SG sounds intimate and close; it is not good or bad, just the fact). They sound really realistic and the synergy with c4 pro is just fantastic. Also, they sound great from absolutely any source without exceptions. No other models have the same advantages at once.


----------



## 51days

RuFrost said:


> It is hard to describe it in words, in written way and in English)) To put it shortly:
> 1) C4 Pro and c10 mod have natural sound presentation - they are description of analogue sound among DAPs in comparison with digital, not natural sound. In comparison, all android devices in this or that degree have some artificiality. OS influence sound a lot, actually.
> 2) Colorflyes drives drivers\dynamics of earbuds much better in terms of authority, deepness, massiveness and overall scale. C4 Pro has widest scene and at the same time it is deep and high. For example, in comparison, even though Opus 3 and Calyx M have amazing, fun and precise sound signature, everything sounds a little bit on the distance.
> 3) Consequently, extensions on all spectre of frequencies are better and longer. Vocals and wind instruments are instant and the most obvious beneficiaries.
> ...


Thanks for your extensive feedback


----------



## RikudouGoku

What do you guys think are the best looking buds out there? 

For me, it would be the Moondrop Chaconne. Its totally targeting my preferences.


----------



## FranQL (Apr 17, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> What do you guys think are the best looking buds out there?
> 
> For me, it would be the Moondrop Chaconne. Its totally targeting my preferences.


Yep.... but they are so ugly that I could never wear them in my ears ....


----------



## slex (Apr 17, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> What do you guys think are the best looking buds out there?
> 
> For me, it would be the Moondrop Chaconne. Its totally targeting my preferences.


Female Poison!☺️


----------



## FranQL

slex said:


> Female Poison!☺️


 I like these better, but I'm sure there are less ... cumbersome solutions for that cable termination?


----------



## slex

FranQL said:


> I like these better, but I'm sure there are less ... cumbersome solutions for that cable termination?


Im sure its nice to hold on that while replacing foams though.


----------



## FranQL

slex said:


> Im sure its nice to hold on that while replacing foams though.


I have not read anything about this, I do not know how it will be.


----------



## slex

FranQL said:


> I have not read anything about this, I do not know how it will be.


🤣Me Too!!!


----------



## baskingshark

slex said:


> Female Poison!☺️



How does this set sound?

Whenever an Aliexpress shop mentions "female poison", I run far away as that usually means shouty banshee upper mids!


----------



## slex

baskingshark said:


> How does this set sound?
> 
> Whenever an Aliexpress shop mentions "female poison", I run far away as that usually means shouty banshee upper mids!


No idea, actually theres no mention of " female poison" in the description. Its just the pics shows indication.

Description:
Specification:                                                                                                             

 1. Product Name: YINMAN 150 ohm Balanced High Impedance 
 2. Model:  YINMAN   *150*   ohm 
 3. Type: In-ear flat head earphone earbud                         
 4. Impedance: *150*   Ω
 5. Earphone sensitivity: 98  dB/mW
 7. Frequency range: 10-40000Hz
 8. Interface: 3.5mm 
 9. Cable Length: 1.2m±5cm
10.Whether with mic: No
11.Earphone category: HIFI, Monitor
12.Drive unit: Dynamic unit drive

Im sure someone have it, Clieo?


----------



## FranQL

slex said:


> No idea, actually theres no mention of " female poison" in the description. Its just the pics shows indication.
> 
> Description:
> Specification:
> ...


well ... we will have to settle for listening to Teresa Teng ...


----------



## slex

FranQL said:


> well ... we will have to settle for listening to Teresa Teng ...


With those wooden shell, high chance of good timbre🤣


----------



## RikudouGoku

slex said:


> With those wooden shell, high chance of good timbre🤣


Not really a guarantee, I had the JVC FW02 (wooden iem that costs around 200 usd) and it had a lot worse timbre than the Blon BL-03.


----------



## slex

RikudouGoku said:


> Not really a guarantee, I had the JVC FW02 (wooden iem that costs around 200 usd) and it had a lot worse timbre than the Blon BL-03.


Thats a first! 👍


----------



## Sam L (Apr 17, 2021)

Well, the weather in my area has been warming up and I'm already starting to experience some discomfort while wearing headphones -- my excuse for ordering an earbud I've been looking at for around a year. It's hard to believe that 1 year has already passed for a good number of us that made the journey into earbuds during the pandemic.

I haven't been on head-fi much after starting a new job, but I'm still very much into the value prop earbuds represent. As soon as I get the new buds in, out of habit I'll measure and compensate them, posting the results here. A couple more hints as to what's inbound:

1. a bud that purists would think is silly to compensate for. (@Alex.Grimm, et al) 
2. not avail on aliexpress.  
3. I never would normally purchase, but I posted something a while back describing what I would do when I got a job.
4. a bud that started shipping its second iteration around 4.5 months ago.

How's that for a tease? Have a great weekend everyone!


----------



## furyossa

slex said:


> With those wooden shell, high chance of good timbre🤣


With wooden shells you get a pleasant resonance that gives warmth to the sound, but because of that you can lose the clarity of sound that is more present with metal shells.


----------



## Memoryerror (Apr 17, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> What do you guys think are the best looking buds out there?
> 
> For me, it would be the Moondrop Chaconne. Its totally targeting my preferences.


ourart qj21
https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/10380732_thumb.jpg


----------



## 1clearhead

Memoryerror said:


> ourart qj21
> https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/10380732_thumb.jpg


That's a beauty! Do you have them? How is the overall sound signature on this one?


----------



## cqtek

1clearhead said:


> That's a beauty! Do you have them? How is the overall sound signature on this one?



These are not bad either. Both photos are mine and I analysed both for this great forum. In my review of the EBX21 you can read a comparison between the two models.


----------



## RikudouGoku

cqtek said:


> These are not bad either. Both photos are mine and I analysed both for this great forum. In my review of the EBX21 you can read a comparison between the two models.


yeah the EBX21 is also another good looking bud.









And also the Turandot


----------



## cqtek

RikudouGoku said:


> yeah the EBX21 is also another good looking bud.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great! There are those good photos to prove it.
And the Turandot is no slouch either, metallising the classic PK capsule.


----------



## Memoryerror (Apr 17, 2021)

1clearhead said:


> That's a beauty! Do you have them? How is the overall sound signature on this one?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't, I just think they are pretty.

And these are interesting:


----------



## RikudouGoku

Memoryerror said:


> I don't, I just think they are pretty.
> 
> And these are interesting:


Metal + wood? Interesting.




What are those "bars" for though?


----------



## Memoryerror

RikudouGoku said:


> Metal + wood? Interesting.
> 
> 
> What are those "bars" for though?






http://headphonemetal.ldblog.jp/archives/52428717.html


----------



## 40760




----------



## povidlo

Entering CM2Kti into the beauty contest ...


----------



## slex

povidlo said:


> Entering CM2Kti into the beauty contest ...


Is that stock mesh with a 'R'?


----------



## povidlo

slex said:


> Is that stock mesh with a 'R'?


Yes bro, L/R are marked behind the stock mesh.


----------



## slex

povidlo said:


> Yes bro, L/R are marked behind the stock mesh.


Cool!👍


----------



## 1clearhead

cqtek said:


> These are not bad either. Both photos are mine and I analysed both for this great forum. In my review of the EBX21 you can read a comparison between the two models.


Nice review!!! It looks like I'll be looking into the OurArt QJ21 some more, since it sounds more like my cup-of-tea for the price.

-Clear


----------



## Richiyaado

Dinky Ears Update:

Well, though the price made me twitch, I threw the dice and ordered a pair of the OurArt flagship earbuds from Penon. At 16mm in diameter, they fit my dinky ears perfectly, and sound amazingly good... I'm talking hoo mama good! So thanks to everyone who helped me with their recommendations!


----------



## 1clearhead

Richiyaado said:


> Dinky Ears Update:
> 
> Well, though the price made me twitch, I threw the dice and ordered a pair of the OurArt flagship earbuds from Penon. At 16mm in diameter, they fit my dinky ears perfectly, and sound amazingly good... I'm talking hoo mama good! So thanks to everyone who helped me with their recommendations!


Good to know! 

I decided to go with the *Ansata Pro*, since my budget can't go for the Ourart flagship at the moment. But, since the reviews were off-the-roof in taobao with the Ansata Pro, I'm sure these will possibly be my TOTL from all the earbuds I currently own.

PS. I still love the look of the Ourart flagship, though!

-Clear


----------



## Alex.Grimm

1clearhead said:


> Good to know!
> 
> I decided to go with the *Ansata Pro*, since my budget can't go for the Ourart flagship at the moment. But, since the reviews were off-the-roof in taobao with the Ansata Pro, I'm sure these will possibly be my TOTL from all the earbuds I currently own.
> 
> PS. I still love the look of the Ourart flagship, though!


No, no it has the same front mesh as Ti7, ACG, but different shell


----------



## 1clearhead (Apr 18, 2021)

Alex.Grimm said:


> No, no it has the same front mesh as Ti7, ACG, but different shell


I notice that...but according to reviews and my friends that own the Ti7 and ACG here in China, the Ansata Pro are much improved in the sound signature with now metal housing and an 8 core copper-silver mix cable. And, at less than half the price of its original cost right now, the Ansata Pro is a "no brainer" for me to buy right now.





-Clear


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Metal + wood? Interesting.
> 
> 
> What are those "bars" for though?


It's a acoustic transmission line (as with loudspeakers) where the tubes are probably made of brass to reduce unwanted resonance. 
One of the purpose of this design and vent system is to gain bass extension. The length of this pipe plays a significant role in tuning.
Old school models of AIWA use the same system (HS-V55, HP-V14, HP-V88, HP-V99, HP-D9 ...)


----------



## earfanatic

One question always intrigue me when I see so many different designs. Are there real science behind these NEW earbuds, or they just make a housing, drill some holes if any and send them to the marketing team? Many earphones seems like try to ignore phisics. Not the Aiwa, it looks like a sound engineered phoduct (unfortunately I never heard it personally), but  none of the new "flagships" incorporate such science anymore. Maybe the Fiio EM5 does.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

furyossa said:


> It's a acoustic transmission line (as with loudspeakers) where the tubes are probably made of brass to reduce unwanted resonance.
> One of the purpose of this design and vent system is to gain bass extension. The length of this pipe plays a significant role in tuning.
> Old school models of AIWA use the same system (HS-V55, HP-V14, HP-V88, HP-V99, HP-D9 ...)


Indeed! The *Dez Kim 데즈 Series #7* (32Ω) was a tribute to the Aiwa's 1980s Pipe-Phones & Flute-Phones.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Are there any recommendations for TOTL earbuds of which the shells are as small as the Monk Lite ? The usual shells (the “500“ ones) are always a bit tricky for me as they are too big. 
Right now I have the Zen 2.0 which I love but it’s on the big side.
I ordered the Yincrow-2000 and Yinman-600 but obviously they will be big.
I ordered the Monk Lite with the higher impedance which should be a good one but I wonder if there are higher end ones other than that.


----------



## furyossa (Apr 18, 2021)

earfanatic said:


> One question always intrigue me when I see so many different designs. Are there real science behind these NEW earbuds, or they just make a housing, drill some holes if any and send them to the marketing team? Many earphones seems like try to ignore phisics. Not the Aiwa, it looks like a sound engineered phoduct (unfortunately I never heard it personally), but  none of the new "flagships" incorporate such science anymore. Maybe the Fiio EM5 does.


For AIWA you are right. It's a sound engineered product which is evidenced by using the same system on multiple models. I don't see any other reason, this is not put on for aesthetics and why would they use something that doesn't work. This pipe will slow down back wave sound, that's why I mentioned that length of this pipe is important here.
Another method is to use short pipe and put inside filter which reduce sound speed (similar to EM5).
For loudspeakers you can easy calculate TL length because manufacturer of the speakers put all required parameters in the specification but for earbuds drivers we don't have all these parameters available.
Also, the shell must have a certain size and ergonomic shape, so it's a little harder to design TL system that would meet all conditions: correct physics, comfort and aesthetics


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Apr 18, 2021)

*Astrotec Lyra Nature* has good separation and detail, speed, sound technicality, the amount of bass in the recording (not for bass heads), clear high-frequency frequencies of good quality add airiness. For comparison, the first thing that comes to mind is Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis, but Viridis has a transparent manner of sound, while Lyra Nature has a touch of warmth and a denser body texture, but not as dense as the Yincrow RW-2000.


Spoiler












*HESSIAN Ansata Pro *I did not listen to the standard black version, only Pro. As noted by the manufacturer “_this is a comprehensive upgraded version of several models of Ti7,ACG, ANSATA. The quality, configuration, and wearing have been strengthened._”
The front mesh remains the same as the Ti7, ACG, but the body is already new. I listened with donut foams. They have a comfortable sound with good vocals, accented in the middle and low, bass with donuts has a good amount, high frequencies are not accented, which will be good for high-frequency fobs. If you replace the complete cable with a better one, then the quality (not quantity) of the high-frequency improves.


Spoiler















*7HZ (Seven Hertz) P-twos Beatles *most audiophiles know this brand by IEM 7Hz I77, 7Hz I88, 7Hz I-99 ... now they decided to replenish their range of earbuds and rolled out 2 7Hz ED-2001 75/300 ohm models in mx500 red cases with 7N cable and P-twos Beatles 32 ohm MMCX with 6N cable.
Externally, the design is like cyberpunk, thick wire, fittings, shells resemble Sydney. I listened with thin foams and donuts, without burn-up earbuds. The earbuds have powerful magnets and a well-chosen bundled cable, which positively affects their sound. I didn't listen for long, but Pantera sounded very cool, powerful, bass and aggressive in them. Quite balanced neutral, melodic sounding, but I wouldn't call it soft, also I'm not sure of its versatility yet. Good burn-up and re-listening are needed, but this model has a lot of positive reviews and purchases on the Tao.


Spoiler



Reviews on tao:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c-s.w4002-22960428501.52.666d6325nQ1NLM&id=630274161954


----------



## RikudouGoku

Alex.Grimm said:


> *Astrotec Lyra Nature* has good separation and detail, speed, sound technicality, the amount of bass in the recording (not for bass heads), clear high-frequency frequencies of good quality add airiness. For comparison, the first thing that comes to mind is Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis, but Viridis has a transparent manner of sound, while Lyra Nature has a touch of warmth and a denser body texture, but not as dense as the Yincrow RW-2000.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


What a haul man!

Which one is your favorite in sound and also which one fits the best so far?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

RikudouGoku said:


> What a haul man!
> 
> Which one is your favorite in sound and also which one fits the best so far?


They are all different in sound, little time has passed to make a choice, only time will tell or will some of this remain with me or everything will go on sale, as usual)


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Serge Bernamej said:


> Are there any recommendations for TOTL earbuds of which the shells are as small as the Monk Lite ? The usual shells (the “500“ ones) are always a bit tricky for me as they are too big.
> Right now I have the Zen 2.0 which I love but it’s on the big side.
> I ordered the Yincrow-2000 and Yinman-600 but obviously they will be big.
> I ordered the Monk Lite with the higher impedance which should be a good one but I wonder if there are higher end ones other than that.


Yincrow-2000 will be large I advise you to buy hooks like in Viridis and a cable with hooks.
Yinman600 better sit
I'm not sure, but maybe the Simphonio Dragon 3 will fit better


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Alex.Grimm said:


> Yincrow-2000 will be large I advise you to buy hooks like in Viridis and a cable with hooks.
> Yinman600 better sit
> I'm not sure, but maybe the Simphonio Dragon 3 will fit better


Thanks ! Sorry to insist, but I tried to Google Viridis and not sure what you’re referring too. Any link ?


----------



## jogawag

Serge Bernamej said:


> Are there any recommendations for TOTL earbuds of which the shells are as small as the Monk Lite ? The usual shells (the “500“ ones) are always a bit tricky for me as they are too big.
> Right now I have the Zen 2.0 which I love but it’s on the big side.
> I ordered the Yincrow-2000 and Yinman-600 but obviously they will be big.
> I ordered the Monk Lite with the higher impedance which should be a good one but I wonder if there are higher end ones other than that.


You can buy Shozy BK as small Shell TOTL earbuds.
You can also choose its 2.5mm balanced type.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32840627688.html


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Serge Bernamej said:


> Thanks ! Sorry to insist, but I tried to Google Viridis and not sure what you’re referring too. Any link ?


https://a.aliexpress.com/_AfO9wP


----------



## Alex.Grimm

jogawag said:


> You can buy Shozy BK as small Shell TOTL earbuds.
> You can also choose its 2.5mm balanced type.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32840627688.html


Nice buds, but no TOTL


----------



## Serge Bernamej

jogawag said:


> You can buy Shozy BK as small Shell TOTL earbuds.
> You can also choose its 2.5mm balanced type.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32840627688.html


Thanks a lot ! Any comparison with Zen 2.0 ?


----------



## rprodrigues

Serge Bernamej said:


> Thanks ! Sorry to insist, but I tried to Google Viridis and not sure what you’re referring too. Any link ?


----------



## jogawag (Apr 18, 2021)

Alex.Grimm said:


> Nice buds, but no TOTL


ClieOS mentioned Shozy BK (Balanced) as CHAMPIONS (TOTL).
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wGTZnKX1aP29c1bzs5JWgqSUlPzZqV9p_cw79VfRBpQ/pub
I was also enjoying Shozy BK until I lost it.

Different people will have different opinions about TOTL.

But why do you keep Shozy BK for yourself and not recommend it to others?


----------



## assassin10000 (Apr 18, 2021)

Serge Bernamej said:


> Are there any recommendations for TOTL earbuds of which the shells are as small as the Monk Lite ? The usual shells (the “500“ ones) are always a bit tricky for me as they are too big.
> Right now I have the Zen 2.0 which I love but it’s on the big side.
> I ordered the Yincrow-2000 and Yinman-600 but obviously they will be big.
> I ordered the Monk Lite with the higher impedance which should be a good one but I wonder if there are higher end ones other than that.



K's high end buds have the best fitting small shells (imo/with my ears).

I only have had the 2018 & 2020 LB (little bell), which is a good entry level bud from them ($35-$45 iirc). But the shell size is pretty much the same afaik.

I prefer small shells such as original PK size, the K's 'bell' series, etc.


----------



## 40760

jogawag said:


> ClieOS mentioned Shozy BK (Balanced) as CHAMPIONS (TOTL).
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wGTZnKX1aP29c1bzs5JWgqSUlPzZqV9p_cw79VfRBpQ/pub
> I was also enjoying Shozy BK until I lost it.
> 
> ...


I loved my Shozy BK too, until my defective pair got exchanged for one that has the "updated" cable, during the warranty period.

Also, there were discussions on people ordering them and swapping out the drivers before returning them.

I think it is kind of hard to get a "legit" pair these days, with the original cables and drivers. Unless the source is really credible.


----------



## jao29 (Apr 18, 2021)

Alex.Grimm said:


> *Astrotec Lyra Nature* has good separation and detail, speed, sound technicality, the amount of bass in the recording (not for bass heads), clear high-frequency frequencies of good quality add airiness. For comparison, the first thing that comes to mind is Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis, but Viridis has a transparent manner of sound, while Lyra Nature has a touch of warmth and a denser body texture, but not as dense as the Yincrow RW-2000.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Been eyeing the 7hz’s as well. Let me know if its worth the asking price and if it improves with burn-in. 😊


----------



## RikudouGoku

Some pictures on the Moondrop VX classic compared with the Chaconne.
(source: I asked moondrop about it a long time ago and forgot to upload it here.)


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> Some pictures on the Moondrop VX classic compared with the Chaconne.
> (source: I asked moondrop about it a long time ago and forgot to upload it here.)



One of em looks a bit like the FAAEAL Datura Pro


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> One of em looks a bit like the FAAEAL Datura Pro







This one? I guess so, a similar shape. They are called Type 3 bell types right? (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3206#post-15645387)



(VX classic)


----------



## 40760

New Lyra.


----------



## RikudouGoku

palestofwhite said:


> New Lyra.


Source? And any more info?


----------



## FranQL

RikudouGoku said:


> Source? And any more info?



https://penonaudio.com/astrotec-lyra-collection.html


----------



## 40760

RikudouGoku said:


> Source? And any more info?


According to Astrotec, it will be limited edition and to be released soon.


----------



## FranQL

palestofwhite said:


> According to Astrotec, it will be limited edition and to be released soon.


My link doesn't look like a new model so I don't have any more information.


----------



## RikudouGoku

What do you guys think are the buds with the biggest soundstage?

Feeling very tempted by the Moondrop Chaconne right now....(especially since it feels like nothing is coming out right now with iems/buds.)...


----------



## 40760

RikudouGoku said:


> What do you guys think are the buds with the biggest soundstage?
> 
> Feeling very tempted by the Moondrop Chaconne right now....(especially since it feels like nothing is coming out right now with iems/buds.)...



Liebesleid was really good for me, but I heard some of its charm were lost with the new tuning of Chaconne. If not for the odd fit and weight I would have kept them.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Apr 19, 2021)

jogawag said:


> ClieOS mentioned Shozy BK (Balanced) as CHAMPIONS (TOTL).
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wGTZnKX1aP29c1bzs5JWgqSUlPzZqV9p_cw79VfRBpQ/pub
> I was also enjoying Shozy BK until I lost it.
> 
> ...


Your docs Last Update: October 21st, 2016. 

TOTL (Top of the Line) Shozy SG considered the pinnacle of the Shozy line. Shozy BK is the previous model, it is already quite old, can buy leftovers at a high price. New Docomo (same drivers as BK) I bought last year for 35 dollars from old stocks of Malasia, add to this let's say another 25 bucks for replace a good cable = 60$ real price of Shozy BK.
I recommend BK as the best yuin shells earbuds, and they are very overpriced and the sound does not match the price. But they have a very special comfortable melodic sound. (I didn’t listen to expensive models such as Simphonio Dragon 2 Plus, Simphonio Dragon 3)


----------



## 40760 (Apr 19, 2021)

Alex.Grimm said:


> Your docs Last Update: October 21st, 2016.
> 
> TOTL (Top of the Line) Shozy SG considered the pinnacle of the Shozy line. Shozy BK is the previous model, it is already quite old, can buy leftovers at a high price. New Docomo (same drivers as BK) I bought last year for 35 dollars from old stocks of Malasia, add to this let's say another 25 bucks for replace a good cable = 60$ real price of Shozy BK.
> I recommend BK as the best yuin shells earbuds, and they are very overpriced and the sound does not match the price. But they have a very special comfortable melodic sound. (I didn’t listen to expensive models such as Simphonio Dragon 2 Plus, Simphonio Dragon 3)


Talking about PK models, Simphonio Dragon 2 plus (SWD2+) is technically better sounding, though losing the wonderful smoothness of the BK.

Have not head the SWD3 because the price is just too high for me to try.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

RikudouGoku said:


> What do you guys think are the buds with the biggest soundstage?


Yincrow RW-1000 Bass version


----------



## baskingshark

Alex.Grimm said:


> Yincrow RW-1000 Bass version



They call it "bass version", but from some reviews I've seen it isn't a basshead earbud?


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> They call it "bass version", but from some reviews I've seen it isn't a basshead earbud?


If the bass is similar to the RW-2000, then no, definitely not a basshead bud. Bassy? yes, but not basshead lol.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Apr 19, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> They call it "bass version", but from some reviews I've seen it isn't a basshead earbud?


Yes, no basshed, but more melodic than neutral rw-1000 standart version. If you want more mid bass then rw-2000 your choice


----------



## digititus

baskingshark said:


> They call it "bass version", but from some reviews I've seen it isn't a basshead earbud?


Correct. It has bass, but it's not Smabat ST-10s bass. Out of my small collection, it gets by far the most ear time


----------



## digititus

Just received the Smabat ST-10s (gold) and Yincrow X6 (just because I need to know!) Initial impressions for ST-10s are quite good. Definitely has great sub bass for a bud, but sounds a bit unusual overall. May need time for brain adjustment. Will listen to the X6 later to find out whether these really are RW-9 killers.


----------



## RikudouGoku

2021-04-19: Added the Yincrow RW-2000 rank S and demoted the NiceHCK EBX21 and the Toneking Viridis from S to S-. (Viridis review rating changed from 5/5 to 4.5/5)

Some TL DR comparison between the RW-2000, EBX21 and the Viridis:

Bass: RW-2000
Male vocals (lower-mids): RW-2000
Female vocals: Viridis
Lower-treble: EBX21
Upper-treble: Viridis
Instrument separation: Viridis
Imaging: EBX21
Soundstage: RW-2000
Timbre: RW-2000

Overall the RW-2000 is by far my favorite one out of these 3. It just matches with my library and personal preference a lot more, and as an iem guy, just sounds more "complete" to me due to the EBX21/Viridis lacking a lot of bass I need.


----------



## digititus

So, initial impressions of the X6 are very positive. I haven't directly compared them to the RW-9, but they do have very similar sound signature. For $10 these are probably one of the best bargains in hifi right now. Listening to Dublicator, shows strong bass performance


----------



## arar

I kinda want to get the Yincrow RW-2000 even though I don't know anything about them. I really like the look of them, seems like a pair of buds that'd last me a long time. What's the sound signature like?


----------



## jogawag

arar said:


> I kinda want to get the Yincrow RW-2000 even though I don't know anything about them. I really like the look of them, seems like a pair of buds that'd last me a long time. What's the sound signature like?


Please see the post by @RikudouGoku.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16284699


----------



## Sam L

palestofwhite said:


> New Lyra.


really pretty!


----------



## Sam L

digititus said:


> Just received the Smabat ST-10s (gold) and Yincrow X6 (just because I need to know!) Initial impressions for ST-10s are quite good. Definitely has great sub bass for a bud, but sounds a bit unusual overall. May need time for brain adjustment. Will listen to the X6 later to find out whether these really are RW-9 killers.


I love my x6's but I wouldn't consider them rw-9 killers... just different, less v-shaped in sound, but I love them both!


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Any guys in here who only listen to earbuds ? By choice ? Not INBUDS (involuntary budders).
I’m curious if some people go so far as to prefer earbuds to any other way of listening to music (excluding live music).


----------



## likeafranfran

RikudouGoku said:


> 2021-04-19: Added the Yincrow RW-2000 rank S and demoted the NiceHCK EBX21 and the Toneking Viridis from S to S-. (Viridis review rating changed from 5/5 to 4.5/5)
> 
> Some TL DR comparison between the RW-2000, EBX21 and the Viridis:
> 
> ...


So if I have the yincrow RW-1000 bass pro and the Dendroaspis. Do you recommend make the upgrade to RW-2000 or search other options?


----------



## arar

jogawag said:


> Please see the post by @RikudouGoku.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16284699



I see "bright" and I shudder just a bit. But otherwise they sound (or, uh, seem like they'd sound) great. Maybe I'll give them a try.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

digititus said:


> So, initial impressions of the X6 are very positive. I haven't directly compared them to the RW-9, but they do have very similar sound signature. For $10 these are probably one of the best bargains in hifi right now. Listening to Dublicator, shows strong bass performance



What an awesome ambient-like techno dub track... thank you for sharing that; truly epic!


----------



## RikudouGoku

arar said:


> I see "bright" and I shudder just a bit. But otherwise they sound (or, uh, seem like they'd sound) great. Maybe I'll give them a try.


They are brighter than the warm X6. But they are still leaning a bit towards warmth.




likeafranfran said:


> So if I have the yincrow RW-1000 bass pro and the Dendroaspis. Do you recommend make the upgrade to RW-2000 or search other options?


Cant comment on the RW-1000 bass pro, but the RW-2000 is VERY different from the viridis. While viridis have a more typical bud sound, the RW-2000 is closer to iems since it actually has bass.


----------



## digititus

WoodyLuvr said:


> What an awesome ambient-like techno dub track... thank you for sharing that; truly epic!


Without truly great music, we wouldn't be collecting all of these earbuds. You are most welcome!


----------



## RikudouGoku

Well guys, I ordered the Moondrop Chaconne lol.


----------



## povidlo

RikudouGoku said:


> Well guys, I ordered the Moondrop Chaconne lol.


Sorry, I never got around to comparing Chaconne to X6 and Viridis as promised, very busy with kids and work.

I bet you will not be dissapointed. Chaconne are exceptional earbuds.

The only thing X6 have on them is mid-bass quantity; Viridis have better fit and detachable cable. Everything else- Chaconne are on another level with beautiful timbre and musicality; resolution, transients, decay are top level - almost BA-driver like. 

Will be closely watching for your thoughts on Chaconne vs EBX21 and RW200.


----------



## 1clearhead

digititus said:


> Just received the Smabat ST-10s (gold) and Yincrow X6 (just because I need to know!) Initial impressions for ST-10s are quite good. Definitely has great sub bass for a bud, but sounds a bit unusual overall. May need time for brain adjustment. Will listen to the X6 later to find out whether these really are RW-9 killers.


I personally think, it's really hard for any earbud to beat the ambient and luscious sound of the RW-9. I own both the X6 and the RW-9 and the RW-9 is a step closer to a live orchestra, IMHO!...Though, I say both are technically insane for such a low price.

-Clear


----------



## RikudouGoku

povidlo said:


> Sorry, I never got around to comparing Chaconne to X6 and Viridis as promised, very busy with kids and work.
> 
> I bet you will not be dissapointed. Chaconne are exceptional earbuds.
> 
> ...


Sounds nice, what do you think about the sub-bass on the Chaconne? Still like a typical bud (closer to the viridis than the X6)?


----------



## Sam L

digititus said:


> So, initial impressions of the X6 are very positive. I haven't directly compared them to the RW-9, but they do have very similar sound signature. For $10 these are probably one of the best bargains in hifi right now. Listening to Dublicator, shows strong bass performance




X6 vs. RW-9


----------



## Sam L

Serge Bernamej said:


> Any guys in here who only listen to earbuds ? By choice ? Not INBUDS (involuntary budders).
> I’m curious if some people go so far as to prefer earbuds to any other way of listening to music (excluding live music).



I think many of us might have started briefly as, what you call "inbuds", but we quickly grew attracted to the merits of earbuds and stay on as fans by choice. For much of 2020 I was earbuds -> iems -> headphones. Currently I'm headphones -> earbuds. (and don't listen to iems at all.) As summer rolls around, I'll likely be exclusively earbuds.


----------



## Sam L (Apr 20, 2021)

With recent mention of the X6, for those that EQ:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbud-target-curve-tests.944006/page-5#post-15966848


----------



## FranQL (Apr 20, 2021)

Serge Bernamej said:


> Any guys in here who only listen to earbuds ? By choice ? Not INBUDS (involuntary budders).
> I’m curious if some people go so far as to prefer earbuds to any other way of listening to music (excluding live music).


There are situations in which I cannot use buds, the reason is because I need sound insulation, to work while there is noise at home for example. Since I found buds with a good fit, except in those situations I use buds.


----------



## arar

I could see myself being an around-the-clock budder if I could find buds that sound close enough to my fav big headphones (so like a warm, loving, all-enveloping hug with a nice bass punch)


----------



## furyossa (Apr 20, 2021)

Sam L said:


> I think many of us might have started briefly as, what you call "inbuds", but we quickly grew attracted to the merits of earbuds and stay on as fans by choice. For much of 2020 I was earbuds -> iems -> headphones. Currently I'm headphones -> earbuds. (and don't listen to iems at all.) As summer rolls around, I'll likely be exclusively earbuds.


Something like season-oriented selection? 
For me is like this : headphones 10%, iem's 20% and buds 70% most of the time but sometimes I like to enjoy the silence


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Sam L said:


> I think many of us might have started briefly as, what you call "inbuds", but we quickly grew attracted to the merits of earbuds and stay on as fans by choice. For much of 2020 I was earbuds -> iems -> headphones. Currently I'm headphones -> earbuds. (and don't listen to iems at all.) As summer rolls around, I'll likely be exclusively earbuds.


Interesting ! I like that idea. I am currently an inbud because of neck problems but as you said, I’m getting attached to them. And the possibility of almost endless variations between buds...


----------



## Serge Bernamej

arar said:


> I could see myself being an around-the-clock budder if I could find buds that sound close enough to my fav big headphones (so like a warm, loving, all-enveloping hug with a nice bass punch)


The Zen 2.0 with foam !


----------



## rprodrigues

Hi folks...

I received my first X6 yesterday.

Does it need some burning in? Or, is there any difference among the available colours? Mine is red.


What is weird is that it doesn't sound as expected at all. It might be just my ears since they are praise everywhere. As a comparison, the k64 sounds a lot better.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Any opinion on the Zen LL ? It’s not a cheap earbud; but the shell is apparently smaller. I think as small as the Monk Lite.


----------



## 1clearhead (Apr 20, 2021)

Okay, so today I had a change of plans...

I decided to order the *JCALLY EP09* instead of the Ansata Pro for the reason of the crazy reviews I've been seeing lately on the EP09 here in China. Some reviewers in China are even saying that they are the buds to beat in 2021 due to the extremely low price versus the high overall value they are capable of dishing out. According to reviewers in China they carry *Beryllium coated Nano diaphragms* plus detachable silver plated cables or all copper cables with MIC. They claim it has a large soundstage and end to end details that's easy to listen to with no sibilance or harness detected. It is crazy cheap, so I decided to buy these for now...


 *Courtesy of JCALLY EP09 PIC's

I will post some impressions to see if they hold true to their quality, sound, and value, soon after receiving them.

-Clear


----------



## arar

Serge Bernamej said:


> The Zen 2.0 with foam !



Thanks for the rec, but no detachable cable at that price point is unfortunately a deal breaker for me.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

1clearhead said:


> Okay, so today I had a change of plans...
> 
> I decided to order the *JCALLY EP09* instead of the Ansata Pro for the reason of the crazy reviews I've been seeing lately on the EP09 here in China. Some reviewers in China are even saying that they are the buds to beat in 2021 due to the extremely low price versus the high overall value they are capable of dishing out. According to reviewers in China they carry *Beryllium coated Nano diaphragms* plus detachable silver plated cables or all copper cables with MIC. They claim it has a large soundstage and end to end details that's easy to listen to with no sibilance or harness detected. It is crazy cheap, so I decided to buy these for now...
> 
> ...


Would you trust chifi product with highly toxic beryllium ? Honest question.


----------



## 1clearhead

Serge Bernamej said:


> Would you trust chifi product with highly toxic beryllium ? Honest question.


Well? Beryllium is used to make cell phones/smart phones too, so do you trust your phone, which is actually made in China? So, to be honest with you is not that I trust Chi-fi products, I just enjoy them.

https://telanganatoday.com/beryllium-is-highly-toxic-yet-useful

-Clear


----------



## Serge Bernamej

1clearhead said:


> Well? Beryllium is used to make cell phones/smart phones too, so do you trust your phone, which is actually made in China? So, to be honest with you is not that I trust Chi-fi products, I just enjoy them.
> 
> https://telanganatoday.com/beryllium-is-highly-toxic-yet-useful
> 
> -Clear


Of course I agree but the difference here is that these companies are small DIY niche markets which may not be as concerned about safety. I don’t know.


----------



## 1clearhead

Serge Bernamej said:


> Of course I agree but the difference here is that these companies are small DIY niche markets which may not be as concerned about safety. I don’t know.


I guess, just like the smart phones/cell phones, we should not attempt to open the earphones for any reason, IMHO.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

As long as you don't sand, grind, or burn the diaphragms and inhale the resulting dust or fumes one should be perfectly safe. Beryllium poisoning is most always by inhalation and absorption by the lungs.


----------



## rprodrigues

.


----------



## 1clearhead

I have the Xiaomi Pistons by 1more for many years now, and no beryllium side effects yet. Though, I'm a little crazier now, but that's because of old age, I guess.


----------



## 1clearhead (Apr 20, 2021)

Another purchase I made today along side with the JCALLY EP09 this week was the *ANN N200* earbuds. I own the original version with the original cable for several years now, but I decided to get the limited edition version with silver cables! They compete head-to-head with the Yincrow X6 and RW-9. Yes, they are that good!

Taobao link: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.193a2e8dF7iodU&id=18199246820&_u=k206rtltra57a5



-Clear


----------



## digititus

1clearhead said:


> I personally think, it's really hard for any earbud to beat the ambient and luscious sound of the RW-9. I own both the X6 and the RW-9 and the RW-9 is a step closer to a live orchestra, IMHO!...Though, I say both are technically insane for such a low price.
> 
> -Clear


Yes, RW-9 is hard to beat. I can see why some prefer the X6, but I think the RW-9 is the better all rounder and very slightly more refined, but its more of a personal thing than any real difference. The RW-1000 bass is a step up for sure. Better resolution, dynamics  and soundstage. I am an official Yincrow fanboi


----------



## WoodyLuvr

arar said:


> I could see myself being an around-the-clock budder if I could find buds that sound close enough to my fav big headphones (so like a warm, loving, all-enveloping hug with a nice bass punch)


This response is not so much directed *@arar* but rather to those newcomers coming here to learn about "_earbuds_".

If I may, I would like to offer a piece of friendly advice in regards to this subject. It can prove very difficult to fully appreciate and truly embrace "_earbuds_" if one strives to find and replace a full sized headphone with an earbud. One will only be disappointed in the end as I honestly believe it can not be had (begotten) as headphone signatures are rather unique, whether they be "_closed back_" or "_open back_", and earbuds due to their nature, design, and small size simply can not replicate them. That said, earbuds can and do offer something very special in their own right (*see here*) that can't be had with headphones or IEMs... there are indeed "_pros_" and "_cons_" to them all.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Thanks for all your great input.
Here’s another question to you experts, as I’m very excited about earbuds now:
Can the “BEST” earbud rival the best iems ?
In terms of pure technicalities  and sound.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Serge Bernamej said:


> Thanks for all your great input.
> Here’s another question to you experts, as I’m very excited about earbuds now:
> Can the “BEST” earbud rival the best iems ?
> In terms of pure technicalities  and sound.


This question is too broad to really answer. 

iems and earbuds are too different and I really dont get why you would compare them that way. They are good for different reasons and depending on library, either one can be the more suited transducer type for you.


----------



## digititus

Serge Bernamej said:


> Thanks for all your great input.
> Here’s another question to you experts, as I’m very excited about earbuds now:
> Can the “BEST” earbud rival the best iems ?
> In terms of pure technicalities  and sound.


Earbuds are like being in a live music venue. IEM's are like being at the mixing desk in a music production studio.


----------



## arar

WoodyLuvr said:


> This response is not so much directed *@arar* but rather to those newcomers coming here to learn about "_earbuds_".
> 
> If I may, I would like to offer a piece of friendly advice in regards to this subject. It can prove very difficult to fully appreciate and truly embrace "_earbuds_" if one strives to find and replace a full sized headphone with an earbud. One will only be disappointed in the end as I honestly believe it can not be had (begotten) as headphone signatures are rather unique, whether they be "_closed back_" or "_open back_", and earbuds due to their nature, design, and small size simply can not replicate them. That said, earbuds can and do offer something very special in their own right (*see here*) that can't be had with headphones or IEMs... there are indeed "_pros_" and "_cons_" to them all.



Yeah, absolutely. I was trying out IEMs a year or two back in hopes that I could find some that sounded like my HD58Xs, something full and lush and warm I could use at the GFs apartment or for watching movies on the iPad or whatever, but it quickly became apparent that IEMs just don't do that sort of stuff. Not to mention that I just couldn't get used to them, my ears started hurting pretty quickly no matter what tips I used (mostly spent my time with the Blon BL-03s and Fiio FH3s).

That said, I got much closer to what I'm looking for with "just" the X6 and NiceHCK MX500 already, so while I'm obviously not expecting there to be a bud that's _like_ my proper headphones, I'm optimistic one exists that's close enough for me (hence the "close enough" in the post you quoted). I'm using the latter buds to listen to music on my iPhone right now and it's honestly shockingly close to what I want. I feel like maybe it should have a bit more upper mids and treble - some songs sound really just sort of muffled - but other than that, they sound fantastic.


----------



## 1clearhead

digititus said:


> Yes, RW-9 is hard to beat. I can see why some prefer the X6, but I think the RW-9 is the better all rounder and very slightly more refined, but its more of a personal thing than any real difference. The RW-1000 bass is a step up for sure. Better resolution, dynamics  and soundstage. I am an official Yincrow fanboi


You are very persuasive!...You're like the avatar staring straight at my soul convincing me to buy the Yincrow RW-1000 Bass edition. So, now I'm convinced that if the JCALLY EP09 doesn't pan out to be my TOTL, then I'm definitely going to go for the RW-1000 Bass! now, let's wait and see until I receive the EP09's, first.

PS. My wife is going to strangle me! 

-Clear


----------



## Сomrade

WoodyLuvr said:


> Может оказаться очень трудным полностью оценить и по-настоящему принять « _наушники_ », если кто-то пытается найти и заменить полноразмерные наушники наушниками.


+++


----------



## Serge Bernamej (Apr 20, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> I really dont get why you would compare them that way.


It’s a known fact that open backs headphones  will always surpass closed backs ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL. (Except in the bass Departement)
I see iems selling for thousands of dollars and my question is legit.
And the answers above are good.


----------



## FranQL

Serge Bernamej said:


> Any opinion on the Zen LL ? It’s not a cheap earbud; but the shell is apparently smaller. I think as small as the Monk Lite.



For this or the "lite" I have been tempted to pull the trigger on many occasions, the time it has been in the market, the build quality, and the cable is what makes me not convinced to pay € 59


----------



## FranQL

Serge Bernamej said:


> It’s a known fact that open backs headphones  will always surpass closed backs ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL. (Except in the bass Departement)
> I see iems selling for thousands of dollars and my question is legit.
> And the answers above are good.


I do not agree with that statement.


----------



## Serge Bernamej (Apr 20, 2021)

FranQL said:


> I do not agree with that statement.


You are then in the minority. TOTL around the ear headphones are ALL open backs.
Orpheus
Stax
Abyss
Audeze
Sennheiser

In absolutely every case, the nec plus ultra, the ultimate sound is always in open backs, for physical reasons.

You can still prefer closed, as I madly love the Denon (7200/9200) for example, but they reach a limit in soundstage, separation, air etc...due to resonance and the very nature of closed backs.

So the most expansive cans are usually open. Whereas with earbuds it’s the opposite. Iems are far more $$$$


----------



## Сomrade

Serge Bernamej said:


> TOTL вокруг наушников ВСЕ с открытой спиной.


Fiio FH7  ?
Sennheiser HD25  ?


----------



## furyossa

Serge Bernamej said:


> You are then in the minority. TOTL around the ear headphones are ALL open backs.
> Orpheus
> Stax
> Abyss
> ...


I honestly prefer open back headphones, but again it all depends on personal taste. 
On the other hand, there are no closed earbuds, the vents on the shell (even stem) always make them open.
If the shell were completely closed then the sound would congest.


----------



## furyossa

Сomrade said:


> Fiio FH7  ?
> Sennheiser HD25  ?


What is your question? 
Don't tell me you're looking for a recommendation for one of these two models on the earbud thread


----------



## Сomrade (Apr 20, 2021)

furyossa said:


> What is your question?


No questions.
These closed type headphones. And they, world hits.


----------



## likeafranfran

Serge Bernamej said:


> Any opinion on the Zen LL ? It’s not a cheap earbud; but the shell is apparently smaller. I think as small as the Monk Lite.


They arrived today at my house. Is small compare to the monk, pk, and mx500 shells. Now I listen and my early impressions are awesome.


----------



## Sam L

digititus said:


> Earbuds are like being in a live music venue. IEM's are like being at the mixing desk in a music production studio.


excellent summary of the differences.


----------



## likeafranfran

digititus said:


> Earbuds are like being in a live music venue. IEM's are like being at the mixing desk in a music production studio.


most accurate sentence to compare it.


----------



## povidlo

RikudouGoku said:


> Sounds nice, what do you think about the sub-bass on the Chaconne? Still like a typical bud (closer to the viridis than the X6)?


Yea, I think so. They're not bass oriented earbuds by any means. Chaconne's driver is very capable though so subbass region does take eq very well without distortion.

Sub-bass wise (without eq), from what I've tried the following buds have the best:
1) Smabat ST-10s Gold
2) FAAEAL Rosemary


----------



## Serge Bernamej

likeafranfran said:


> They arrived today at my house. Is small compare to the monk, pk, and mx500 shells. Now I listen and my early impressions are awesome.


Do you have the Zen 2.0 ? Any comparaison with the LL? I’m very close to ordering them.


----------



## likeafranfran

Serge Bernamej said:


> Do you have the Zen 2.0 ? Any comparaison with the LL? I’m very close to ordering them.


I don't have the Zen 2.0, but this my initial impressions posted on aliexpress:

"Very impressed with this Zen LL. Good build quality, the 4,4 adapter can kill a tank. Comfortable for small ears and the sound is brutal. The bass has more quality than earbuds in the price segment. The clarity in mids and treble ¡and without burning time! I hope this gets better and better with time. The seller adds masks and one USB DAC as a gift. He convinces me to buy the TOTL ZEN in the future."

In my opinion is a win win with this earbud.


----------



## baskingshark (Apr 20, 2021)

1clearhead said:


> Well? Beryllium is used to make cell phones/smart phones too, so do you trust your phone, which is actually made in China? So, to be honest with you is not that I trust Chi-fi products, I just enjoy them.
> 
> https://telanganatoday.com/beryllium-is-highly-toxic-yet-useful
> 
> -Clear



Actually other than some full beryllium types (eg for CHIFI IEMs it be expensive stuff like the DUNU LUNA and Final Audio A8000), I suspect a lot of cheaper sets that are beryllium plated and coated may be a marketing gimmick. For sure there are some beryllium sets that are properly implemented and the beryllium deposit really makes a difference to the sound, eg textured bass, takes EQ like a champ, those seem to be hallmarks of beryllium drivers. But I've heard some purported beryllium budget CHIFI IEMs that don't really sound different from a conventional driver type IEM.

The KBEAR BElieve is also purported to be a full beryllium single DD, but the jury is still out on whether that is true. I know BGGAR and some folks have opened the shell to show that the driver looks like beryllium, but nobody has a spectrometer or tools to really prove whether it is a full beryllium or some other metal or even the % purity.

The official DUNU folks here on headfi made some interesting comments about the lining/material of beryllium drivers: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-discovery-thread.586909/page-2968#post-15288735
*"The PVD layer has to be thick enough and the microscopic grain pattern has to be regular enough to confer that pistonic motion beryllium is so famous for. That's why our sub-$100 products (DM-380 and DM-480) are still titanium drivers. Even the TITAN 6, at $139, is only coated on one side."*

Personally I have a sneaky suspicion that at the budget CHIFI level, some of these novel material applications on drivers may be an element of marketing gimick, to stand out from the fierce competition at that price range. For all we know they are just sprinkling a few flakes of certain coatings on their drivers instead of uniformly applying it in the prescribed quantities to truly be effective.

Slater has a good post here about this issue: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chinese-asian-brand-iem-info-thread.820747/page-1874#post-15293524 -> see the last paragraph, if the material is sprayed on improperly or not implemented well, the driver may actually sound worse.

So DUNU says they have difficulty implementing this Beryllium coating in their sub $100 USD gear. And we already see unit variation in macroscopic areas in these budget CHIFI in terms of sound and build, so forgive me for being skeptical that some CHIFI budget IEMs can ensure good QC for all their units when it comes to microscopic application of these novel materials in the proper layering. Possibly for expensive high end gear like DUNU LUNA or Focal Utopias, the beryllium may be properly coated and the sound is really unique cause of these properties.

All these special materials, be it beryllium, graphene or diamond or whatever, needs to be coated and implemented properly to truly make a difference. In fact if you coat it wrongly it may make the driver sound worse by affecting its physical properties.





As for beryllium toxicity, it is toxic to process and postprocessing, probably when the driver is damaged and particles are released and inhaled.
Focal Utopia has a warning in the phamphlet with their headphones:







Serge Bernamej said:


> Thanks for all your great input.
> Here’s another question to you experts, as I’m very excited about earbuds now:
> Can the “BEST” earbud rival the best iems ?
> In terms of pure technicalities  and sound.



Kind of an apples to oranges comparison as most IEMs will not compete with earbuds in soundstage. Earbuds are closer to open backed headphones than IEMs actually.

IEMS generally have better isolation and hence subbass response, and they may also be more detailed as the transducer is closer to the ear.

FWIW, $5 - 10 can get u very good sound for earbuds, $50ish can get u midfi sound and $100 - 200 can get u TOTL sound for earbuds. IEMs on the other hand are more expensive relatively in the various budget/midfi/TOTL price brackets.




povidlo said:


> Yea, I think so. They're not bass oriented earbuds by any means. Chaconne's driver is very capable though so subbass region does take eq very well without distortion.
> 
> Sub-bass wise (without eq), from what I've tried the following buds have the best:
> 1) Smabat ST-10s Gold
> 2) FAAEAL Rosemary




How is the FAAEAL Rosemary? Heard it is a bass monster.


----------



## 1clearhead

baskingshark said:


> Actually other than some full beryllium types (eg for CHIFI IEMs it be expensive stuff like the DUNU LUNA and Final Audio A8000), I suspect a lot of cheaper sets that are beryllium plated and coated may be a marketing gimmick. For sure there are some beryllium sets that are properly implemented and the beryllium deposit really makes a difference to the sound, eg textured bass, takes EQ like a champ, those seem to be hallmarks of beryllium drivers. But I've heard some purported beryllium budget CHIFI IEMs that don't really sound different from a conventional driver type IEM.
> 
> The KBEAR BElieve is also purported to be a full beryllium single DD, but the jury is still out on whether that is true. I know BGGAR and some folks have opened the shell to show that the driver looks like beryllium, but nobody has a spectrometer or tools to really prove whether it is a full beryllium or some other metal or even the % purity.
> 
> ...


He who has no knowledge on beryllium, let him hear! 

Thanks for that lengthy reply. For someone who hasn't studied the facts on beryllium, they will actually learn much from your information.

Since I already studied and known these facts here in China for many years now, listening to beryllium drivers kind of grew on me. So, the only way to find out if the JCALLY EP09 has beryllium coating for such a low price is to listen to them closely upon receiving them. So, I'll let everyone know if it has that distinctive signature that only true coated, or full beryllium drivers deliver. If it sounds too suspicious in any way, I will let my techie friends here in China inspect them for me. So, no worries my friend!

-Clear


----------



## baskingshark

Alex.Grimm said:


> got new earbuds
> 
> 
> Spoiler



How does the Hessian Ansata Pro compare to some of your other midfi and TOTL earbuds?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

baskingshark said:


> How does the Hessian Ansata Pro compare to some of your other midfi and TOTL earbuds?


From memory like Yincrow RW-9 , those also had high frequencies suppressed


----------



## citral23 (Apr 21, 2021)

Long time no see, been contempt with my tone king collection for a while but just noticed they released a green one, for which I can't pronounce the name so had to order it. And the tp16, which I realized was missing to my collection.

Can you people tell me if they toned down the outrageous trebles on the rw-1000 bass pro? The regular is by far my most resolving bud but damn it's fatiguing, and arguably very bass shy, so I'm interested in the bassy one if it comes with less treble.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

citral23 said:


> Can you people tell me if they toned down the outrageous trebles on the rw-1000 bass pro? The regular is by far my most resolving bud but damn it's fatiguing, and arguably very bass shy, so I'm interested in the bassy one if it comes with less treble.


No, RW-1000 bass pro bright and tiring, there is not much bass either, but sound musically. In RW-2000 mid bass is fatter and there is a lot of it, but there is not enough sub bass. RW-2000 is more interesting than RW-1000/Bass Pro.


----------



## Sam L (Apr 21, 2021)

Nice surprise... package was expected to arrive at end of week!


----------



## nick n

1clearhead said:


> Another purchase I made today along side with the JCALLY EP09 this week was the *ANN N200* earbuds. I own the original version with the original cable for several years now, but I decided to get the limited edition version with silver cables! They compete head-to-head with the Yincrow X6 and RW-9. Yes, they are that good!
> 
> Taobao link: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.193a2e8dF7iodU&id=18199246820&_u=k206rtltra57a5
> 
> -Clear


Nice to see some interest in the ANN N200 again. Is that the main seller who only allows one-at-a-time purchase?
Thanks for the link.


----------



## 1clearhead

nick n said:


> Nice to see some interest in the ANN N200 again. Is that the main seller who only allows one-at-a-time purchase?
> Thanks for the link.


All I know is that the seller that I bought the ANN N200 is the only one I see selling this model on taobao. 

My Story and Impression on the ANN N200:

Truth be told, ever since I misplaced the N200 a little over a year ago, I almost forgot I had them! I was doing some spring cleaning a few weeks ago and that's when I found them in a lonely drawer. So, while comparing them first to the X6 and then the RW-9, this is what I got. They have cleaner details in the MID's and highs when compared to the X6, which sounded sometimes nasal in comparison. And, while the bass is tighter on the N200, the sub-bass on the X6 could rumble a little deeper when called for. Both have great soundstage in its own way, though technicality slightly favors the N200. Overall, the N200 stands between X6 and RW-9, since the RW-9 sounds slightly more transparent and brighter, though the N200 and RW-9 are technically "head-to-head" in details. But, the musical and safe bet can still favor the X6 on many levels when it comes to overall pick of most genre's.

Finally, I say all three are winners in my book, since all three brings a different signature to the table, which is different enough to enjoy from one another! 

-Clear


----------



## Serge Bernamej (Apr 23, 2021)

I don’t know if it’s a common technique, but the way I stabilize the big shelled earbud with foam is by using ear-hook that goes through a tiny hole that I make on of the foam.




I used the Venture Electronics ear hooks, a fellow of the thread recommended some also, which I ordered. Is there some consensus or recommendation on the best quality ear hooks ?


----------



## Carrow (Apr 23, 2021)

Reluctantly having to sell my Sony MDR-ED21 set, put them on eBay for auction but they’re also in classifieds if you’d prefer a straight sale.

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/154425687300


----------



## oneula

just saw this and didn't realized that he had passed
RIP Hungry Panda and condolences to your wife/family
Lots of good posts on the Chifi earbud and DAP threads between the both of them.

Tribute to Hungry Panda by Oleg on Earbuds Anonymous


----------



## Serge Bernamej (Apr 23, 2021)

Update ! As you may already know, the best position is a bit angled and the closest to the ear canal. Without foam it’s the easiest, but it’s a thinner sound and the least secure fit.
With foam is my fqvorite sound even with an excess of warmth. But fit (stability) is still a problem.
With foam + ear hook as shown above in my previous post (hole in foam) I thought it was ok but something was missing.

Turns out the final solution to the fitting problem is this:



Let the ear hook behind the shell, even if it kind of free plays when not on the ear, it will secure the fit better once inside the ear.
This allows for a n angled closer range to the canal + good fit. Basically it keeps the sound exactly as it would have been with just the foam properly installed in the ear.
The ear hook does not alter the sound this way; it plays the role it should: fit and stability.


----------



## nick n

I have never thought about fitting the earhooks further onto the stems that way, great idea thanks.
Great use of foam to brace them a bit also.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

nick n said:


> I have never thought about fitting the earhooks further onto the stems that way, great idea thanks.
> Great use of foam to brace them a bit also.


Yes I don’t think it would work without the foam; but I guess it depends on the earbuds.
Here I have mainly used the Zen 2.0.


----------



## prophette

I've had the Qlabs God Series Black from Rholupat for a couple of days now.  My hope was that this would be an MMCX-enabled upgrade over the Yincrow X6, which I don't quite love.  They just seem slightly muddy to me.  For me, so far, the Black are a good upgrade over the X6.  They have a little more bass than the X6, which surprised me.  I did also compare them against my Yincrow RW-1000 Bass edition, which I originally hoped would be that upgrade over the X6.  I need to spend more time with them.  I think the X6 is a better comparison point for the Black than the RW-1000B.  Before I bought the RW-1000B, the NiceHCK EB2 were my favorite buds and the only thing I could say against them is that they have a fixed cable and I really prefer detachables.  I thought the EB2 had acceptable bass and the cable is miles better than the awful cable on the X6.  The RW-1000B don't have the same warmth, but have nice clarity and can be worn up or down depending on the cable, so they'd become my daily earbuds.  I think the Black will replace them as daily drivers.  I guess they were a limited edition as they don't seem to be available anymore?  I hope they come back as I think others looking for something to step up from the X6 might appreciate them.  

I like the idea of putting a hole in a foamie so it can go on over the ear hook/wing.  I'll have to try that.  My earbud hooks/wings of choice lately come from Far End Gear.  I originally found them on Amazon USA after my order of silicone rings and ear wings from Aliexpress never made it to my mailbox, probably a casualty of the the more expensive package that came that day that we believe was stolen.  They also have a website where you can order them direct - farendgear.com.  They call them BudLoks.  They come in different sizes; the pack from Amazon is a mix but you can order specific sizes from their website. Most likely they won't work for everyone, but it's another option to try.


----------



## nick n (Apr 23, 2021)

^ When I saw those I think they mentioned in the listing there was only one set available.
Same with the red ones.
So count yourself lucky 

Too bad they don't list more of some things, they obviously sell them.
I do wish stuff from Indonesia was a bit easier to source over here in North America.
Be nice to see some more Bel Audio stuff up for instance ( https://www.facebook.com/BELaudioIndonesia/ ),
 more ELI Sabia buds , the newest versions ( a no-brainer ),
 and buds with cables like these from Kanzenoka Audio ( https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100063644616897 )

 ( I had to put up the actual image ).

​Juloptau are you listening...come back to ebay


----------



## Smasher

Hello, what would be an upgrade from Yincrow X6 that has similar sound sig but better technicalities?


----------



## Sam L

Question... Let's say, hypothetically, someone were to get a rose electronics maria II. Hypothetically, what kind of burn-in time should one target?


----------



## baskingshark (Apr 23, 2021)

Sam L said:


> Question... Let's say, hypothetically, someone were to get a rose electronics maria II. Hypothetically, what kind of burn-in time should one target?



This question is a big can of worms haha.
Seen flamewars start over it, there are 2 camps about burn in, one camp thinks it works and religiously burns in all gear for many days. The other camp thinks it doesn't and is just brain burn in. They think it is just a scam for companies as a "get out of jail card" in case consumers don't like the sound OOTB -> So the consumer is forced to burn in for days and days and maybe they forget about the earbud/IEM when a new hypetrain comes in the mail haha.

I respect both camps, so FWIW, I guess u can try burning in and see if you hear any differences. I've seen manufacturers put in their packaging phamphlet that one should burn in the gear for 100 - 200 hours (not kidding), but I think that's an overkill. Maybe try a day or so, it might help for dynamic driver type gear, but I personally don't think it is a night and day difference in giving a totally different sound signature after burn in.


----------



## hongky

uneri said:


> There's actually also a high impedance version of RW-1000 (80 ohm) only available on Taobao.


Is it normal now that Taobao is more expensive than AliExpress ?
I try to find RW-1000 (80ohm) and found that the regular version at around $90 , $77 from Aliexpress
Try Ansata pro, $92 at Taobao, $58 from Aliexpress


----------



## 40760

hongky said:


> Is it normal now that Taobao is more expensive than AliExpress ?
> I try to find RW-1000 (80ohm) and found that the regular version at around $90 , $77 from Aliexpress
> Try Ansata pro, $92 at Taobao, $58 from Aliexpress



If your country has Shopee, prices can go even lower.


----------



## hongky

palestofwhite said:


> If your country has Shopee, prices can go even lower.


It's more expensive in my country's shopee, around $83
I just thought that Taobao always cheaper


----------



## Kamen555

Hi all, 

I have been EQing when using earbuds and have found it quite pleasent. Generally following tips from this forum. I think my hearing is not like it used to be n is sensitive to certain tunings.

I was wondering for those that EQ, any mid-level to budget earbuds that u guys don't EQ n listen as is? 

Thanks.


----------



## Serge Bernamej (Apr 24, 2021)

Serge Bernamej said:


> Update ! As you may already know, the best position is a bit angled and the closest to the ear canal. Without foam it’s the easiest, but it’s a thinner sound and the least secure fit.
> With foam is my fqvorite sound even with an excess of warmth. But fit (stability) is still a problem.
> With foam + ear hook as shown above in my previous post (hole in foam) I thought it was ok but something was missing.
> 
> ...


Update again.
Because the elasticity of the foam might lose it’s force and become too slack, I thought of adding a little feature to help the silicone ear-hook maintain it’s grip.
I am by no means a modder so you’ll excuse my amateurism, but if some maker of earphones can see the value of a design that would allow for great stability and fit as the Bose EARBUD (soundsport earbud, OPEN BACK) does, that would be awesome.
I’m not shilling for Bose, I’m just wondering why it’s almost the only company that has achieved perfect ergonomics while the audiophile market is neglecting this aspect.


----------



## nick n

the addition of the silicone blob sticky feet things should also add some damping/resonance control to the housing = a win  win situation.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

nick n said:


> the addition of the silicone blob sticky feet things should also add some damping/resonance control to the housing = a win  win situation.


Oh !!!! Could you elaborate ? Would it be easy to do for us?


----------



## nick n

I meant the feet things you already added  may help a bit with housing  vibrations.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

nick n said:


> I meant the feet things you already added  may help a bit with housing  vibrations.


Oh ok I get it. Hahah, maybe.


----------



## 1clearhead (Apr 25, 2021)

Hello head-fiers!

I've been listening to the *JCALLY EP09* with the included sponge covers for two days now and all I can say is 3 words -spacious, luscious, and transparent! I gave them over 50 hours of play time just to open up, and so far they are the best earbuds I've ever heard in terms of high resolution, maturity and clarity! I ordered them with both the copper (with MIC) and silver cables (without MIC), and I decided to go with the silver cables after listening to both. But, wow!...Easily, I can hear the distinctive signature of the beryllium coated diaphragms as mentioned on the package! It has that sound that only beryllium DD's could bring -a broad, rich, textured bass and overall soundstage down to a "T". Clashes, bells, cymbals, violin, and strings never sounded so sweet in my ears like the EP09 can put out! And, even though the other earbuds I own have an excellent soundstage too, the downside is the plasticky signature I hear when compared to the EP09. It might just be the metallic housing provided for the EP09  that gives it that different sound, but I don't really know why it just sounds slightly more professionally coherent. For now, these are my TOTL until some other earbud takes the title, and definitely they are a steal for the price, IMHO!

PS. I have another second pair of EP09 on the way, since they're so cheap in price and a "no brainer"! 








If anyone is interested at jumping on these, check them out here...
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002217414013.html

-Clear


----------



## baskingshark

1clearhead said:


> Hello head-fiers!
> 
> I've been listening to the *JCALLY EP09* with the included foam covers for two days now and all I can say is 3 words -spacious, luscious, and transparent! I gave them over 50 hours of play time just to open up, and so far they are the best earbuds I've ever heard in terms of high resolution, maturity and clarity! I ordered them with both the copper (with MIC) and silver cables (without MIC), and I decided to go with the silver cables after listening to both. But, wow!...Easily, I can hear the distinctive signature of the beryllium coated diaphragms as mentioned on the package! It has that sound that only beryllium DD's could bring -a broad, rich, textured bass and overall soundstage down to a "T". Clashes, bells, cymbals, violin, and strings never sounded so sweet in my ears like the EP09 can put out! And, even though the other earbuds I own have an excellent soundstage too, the downside is the plasticky signature I hear when compared to the EP09. It might just be the metallic housing provided for the EP09  that gives it that different sound, but I don't really know why it just sounds slightly more professionally coherent. For now, these are my TOTL until some other earbud takes the title, and definitely they are a steal for the price, IMHO!
> 
> ...



Thanks for the impressions. What's the sound signature like? V shaped? Neutralish? Midcentric?

And how's the subbass? Say compared to some SMABAT type earbuds in this department?


----------



## 1clearhead (Apr 25, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for the impressions. What's the sound signature like? V shaped? Neutralish? Midcentric?
> 
> And how's the subbass? Say compared to some SMABAT type earbuds in this department?


Probably, balanced. I am wearing the sponge with them. The sub-bass is nice and sweet, sounds very broad with impact like the way beryllium would demonstrate this area. Sorry, I don't have the SMABAT.


----------



## axhng

1clearhead said:


> Hello head-fiers!
> 
> I've been listening to the *JCALLY EP09* with the included foam covers for two days now and all I can say is 3 words -spacious, luscious, and transparent! I gave them over 50 hours of play time just to open up, and so far they are the best earbuds I've ever heard in terms of high resolution, maturity and clarity! I ordered them with both the copper (with MIC) and silver cables (without MIC), and I decided to go with the silver cables after listening to both. But, wow!...Easily, I can hear the distinctive signature of the beryllium coated diaphragms as mentioned on the package! It has that sound that only beryllium DD's could bring -a broad, rich, textured bass and overall soundstage down to a "T". Clashes, bells, cymbals, violin, and strings never sounded so sweet in my ears like the EP09 can put out! And, even though the other earbuds I own have an excellent soundstage too, the downside is the plasticky signature I hear when compared to the EP09. It might just be the metallic housing provided for the EP09  that gives it that different sound, but I don't really know why it just sounds slightly more professionally coherent. For now, these are my TOTL until some other earbud takes the title, and definitely they are a steal for the price, IMHO!
> 
> ...


thanks for the review! I tried the jcally ep01 and didn't like it at all, so didn't really pay much attention to the bunch of buds that they have been putting out. but looks like they might have something interesting here. i've been pretty happy with the nicehck me80 and a pair of DIY earbuds with drivers i bought on Shopee, so haven't been tempted to buy more earbuds... but this is a little tempting...


----------



## 1clearhead

axhng said:


> thanks for the review! I tried the jcally ep01 and didn't like it at all, so didn't really pay much attention to the bunch of buds that they have been putting out. but looks like they might have something interesting here. i've been pretty happy with the nicehck me80 and a pair of DIY earbuds with drivers i bought on Shopee, so haven't been tempted to buy more earbuds... but this is a little tempting...


I have the EP05 and didn't like them over my current bunch, but the EP09 are just in another league!


----------



## povidlo

baskingshark said:


> How is the FAAEAL Rosemary? Heard it is a bass monster.


Rosemary sounds like ‘W’ to me: with prominent sub-bass, in your face vocals/drums, and good upper treble reach. Reduction in mid-bass and lower treble allow for extended non-fatiguing listen.

Sub-bass is the star of the show. It has good quantity and doesn’t sound muddy; features a well-controlled decay with good resolution.

Mids are clean and transparent with no bleed. But they’re not liquid-like, and vocals lack richness.

High treble is well extended yet smoothed. It lacks the sparkle excitement factor.

Soundstage appears with good vertical extension, alright width, but lacks 3D depth. Distortion appears very low with a nice black background and quite good detail-retrieval. Imaging is spotty with acceptable instrument separation.


----------



## rprodrigues

povidlo said:


> Rosemary sounds like ‘W’ to me: with prominent sub-bass, in your face vocals/drums, and good upper treble reach. Reduction in mid-bass and lower treble allow for extended non-fatiguing listen.
> 
> Sub-bass is the star of the show. It has good quantity and doesn’t sound muddy; features a well-controlled decay with good resolution.
> 
> ...



You have explained why I do like my set!

Do you  know any buds with a similar sound signature and which includes the missing sparkle?


----------



## LordZero

Hmm, I wanted to recommend the nicehck b40 to my brother and order some for me too, but i can't find them on ali. Are they EOL? 
If yes, what are the others budget yuin shaped alternatives?


----------



## povidlo

rprodrigues said:


> You have explained why I do like my set!
> 
> Do you  know any buds with a similar sound signature and which includes the missing sparkle?


Unfortunatelly, I do not.

Would be cool to check out something like that.  

Hopefully, someone else can make a suggestion, I'm all ears .


----------



## likeafranfran

1clearhead said:


> Hello head-fiers!
> 
> I've been listening to the *JCALLY EP09* with the included sponge covers for two days now and all I can say is 3 words -spacious, luscious, and transparent! I gave them over 50 hours of play time just to open up, and so far they are the best earbuds I've ever heard in terms of high resolution, maturity and clarity! I ordered them with both the copper (with MIC) and silver cables (without MIC), and I decided to go with the silver cables after listening to both. But, wow!...Easily, I can hear the distinctive signature of the beryllium coated diaphragms as mentioned on the package! It has that sound that only beryllium DD's could bring -a broad, rich, textured bass and overall soundstage down to a "T". Clashes, bells, cymbals, violin, and strings never sounded so sweet in my ears like the EP09 can put out! And, even though the other earbuds I own have an excellent soundstage too, the downside is the plasticky signature I hear when compared to the EP09. It might just be the metallic housing provided for the EP09  that gives it that different sound, but I don't really know why it just sounds slightly more professionally coherent. For now, these are my TOTL until some other earbud takes the title, and definitely they are a steal for the price, IMHO!
> 
> ...


This JCALLY EP09 comes with a case or you bought separately?


----------



## 1clearhead

likeafranfran said:


> This JCALLY EP09 comes with a case or you bought separately?


Mines came with a case.


----------



## axhng

Been a while since I listened to the Creative Aurvana Air, so shall enjoy that today for a change to stave of the temptation from the EP09.


----------



## 40760

axhng said:


> Been a while since I listened to the Creative Aurvana Air, so shall enjoy that today for a change to stave of the temptation from the EP09.



Nice earbuds from SG and interesting gaming phone...


----------



## Merkurio (Apr 26, 2021)

What is worth considering under the $50 range?

The more popular options nowadays.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Merkurio said:


> What is worth considering under the $50 range?
> 
> The more popular options nowadays.


Yincrow X6, NiceHCK MX500 (and NiceHCK ME80 if you can find one).


----------



## Merkurio

RikudouGoku said:


> Yincrow X6, NiceHCK MX500 (and NiceHCK ME80 if you can find one).



Thanks!

For comfort, the PK1 version is smaller than the MX500 one, right?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Merkurio said:


> Thanks!
> 
> For comfort, the PK1 version is smaller than the MX500 one, right?


Dont have the PK1, but that is most likely a different bud in both sound and fit.

For me, MX500 are superior to PK shells.


----------



## furyossa

Merkurio said:


> Thanks!
> 
> For comfort, the PK1 version is smaller than the MX500 one, right?


Yup. MX500 use 15.4mm drivers (OD around 16.8mm) and PK use 14.8mm drivers. Same size but better comfort provides DOCOMO shell


----------



## rprodrigues

Merkurio said:


> What is worth considering under the $50 range?
> 
> The more popular options nowadays.


I'm not an expert as the others here, but my humble suggestion is the K's LBBS. 
Good fit (for my small ears) and very good sound signature.


----------



## 1Q84

Receieved my Toneking Viridis yesterday, which I got for 60$ (including shipping) on shopee.
Stock cables are really bad in built and sonically, IMO. Changed to the FAAEAL copper litz (removed ear guide).

Initial impressions:

BASS
Probably the most surprising part for me since most reviews in this thread says they lack bass. 
But for me and my music library, the bass is just fine, could use a bit more punch/physicality but quantity is perfect for me. 
I have small ears so they seal quite good. I didn't like the hooks as it pushes the earbuds deeper, YMMV.
This really reminds of the TC200 bass(quantity and quality) but with improved mids, treble and most importantly timbre.

MIDS
I think its quite similar with KSC75 mids, which are the best mids I have heard up to date. I haven't heard HD600 mids yet though. 
Piano and acoustic guitar really shines here along with the airy male and female vocals. 
You could clearly distinguish the different voices singing together. These have the right balance between analytic and analog sound, IMO.

TREBLE:
Treble extension is above average compared to other earbuds. 
Cymbal splashes are also well textured and doesn't sound smeared like most gears in this price range.
Overall, they also have good instrument separation.

CONCLUSION:
The Viridis will most probably be my end-game gear for this year, having shifted recently from iems to mostly just earbuds due to the better soundstage they provide which I found to value more, and of course also due to the better comfort.
I hope earbuds would stay underrated forever as the price to performance on these things are much better than iems and hps.


----------



## likeafranfran

1Q84 said:


> Receieved my Toneking Viridis yesterday, which I got for 60$ (including shipping) on shopee.
> Stock cables are really bad in built and sonically, IMO. Changed to the FAAEAL copper litz (removed ear guide).
> 
> Initial impressions:
> ...


Totally agree with you. The bass is not the biggest but is good, rapid, and precise. The build quality of the shell is sublime, the cable is crap hahaha. I change the cable too.


----------



## likeafranfran

rprodrigues said:


> I'm not an expert as the others here, but my humble suggestion is the K's LBBS.
> Good fit (for my small ears) and very good sound signature.


One question. What accessories come with the LBBS? Comes with a case or pouch? Can you share some photos, please?


----------



## Sam L

Kamen555 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have been EQing when using earbuds and have found it quite pleasent. Generally following tips from this forum. I think my hearing is not like it used to be n is sensitive to certain tunings.
> 
> ...


the only buds I listen to without eq are: rw-9, x6, bk2 and me80. everything else needs eq to be tolerable to my ears.


----------



## rprodrigues

likeafranfran said:


> One question. What accessories come with the LBBS? Comes with a case or pouch? Can you share some photos, please?


Take a look...


----------



## theresanarc

Just checking in to see if any recent earbuds have come in with the same shell as the Qian39s/Monk Lites recently. Also should've ordered extra pairs of Qian39s the price has gone up a bit (or the shipping did in one case).


----------



## rashedalamgir (Apr 27, 2021)

Hello sirs! may peace be upon u... i need help :3 recently i have become interested in earbuds after listening monk pluses....... i need a warm sounding earbud under 27 usd.... and also, how is the moondrop nameless? and how does its subbass quantity compare to the Monk plus? can i get a subbass like the monk pluses by changing my dac filter to "brick filter" and foamies? using shanling q1 as a source
am a newbie here, pls pardon my mistakes... thanks in advance


----------



## Kamen555

Sam L said:


> the only buds I listen to without eq are: rw-9, x6, bk2 and me80. everything else needs eq to be tolerable to my ears.


Cool2. Thanks for d info. 😀 I have d X6 but I EQ it as well. Maybe I should try them w/o EQ.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Anybody knows if there is a sonic difference between VE Zen 2.0 normal edition and the black edition?
There is one selling near me for almost twice the price ! I wonder what justifies that.


----------



## 40760 (Apr 27, 2021)

Serge Bernamej said:


> Anybody knows if there is a sonic difference between VE Zen 2.0 normal edition and the black edition?
> There is one selling near me for almost twice the price ! I wonder what justifies that.



From memory, the Zen Black is indeed better than the regular one. I had them both quite some years ago to compare, and not that I can remember exactly but definitely more defined and less bleed over of the lows.

Built wise the Zen Black has tougher and more lasting cables, but at the expense of stiffness. The regular Zen 2.0 has soft red cables, but its clear rubber insulation turns yellow pretty quickly for me.

Edit: If not wrong the Black uses Cardas cables and original Oyaide plugs. Besides cable being red, 2.0 is quite generic if you ask me.


----------



## WoodyLuvr




----------



## Penon (Apr 28, 2021)

*Rose Maria II 16mm version is in stock now .*

https://penonaudio.com/rose-maria-ii.html


----------



## rashedalamgir

Penon said:


> *Rose Maria II 16mm version is in stock now .*
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/rose-maria-ii.html


Hello sir!
May peace be upon u , i just had a question... When will HE150 Pro come in stock sir?


----------



## furyossa

rashedalamgir said:


> Hello sir!
> May peace be upon u , i just had a question... When will HE150 Pro come in stock sir?


You're asking the right question 
I'm interesting in HE150 OG.


----------



## rashedalamgir

Sirs , which will be better between Faaeal Datura pro, monk plus SPC and moondrop Nameless? Also pls tell their sound signature :3


----------



## rkw

Penon said:


> *Rose Maria II 16mm version is in stock now .*
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/rose-maria-ii.html


How to decide which size might be better for individual fit? If I find Rose Mojito to be a bit large, would 14.8mm be a better choice for me?


----------



## Penon

rashedalamgir said:


> Hello sir!
> May peace be upon u , i just had a question... When will HE150 Pro come in stock sir?


HE150 Pro has been discontinued .


----------



## Penon

rkw said:


> How to decide which size might be better for individual fit? If I find Rose Mojito to be a bit large, would 14.8mm be a better choice for me?


Rose Mojito is about 15.3mm. 
Rose Maria II is 14.8mm,which is smaller.


----------



## Sam L

Penon said:


> *Rose Maria II 16mm version is in stock now .*
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/rose-maria-ii.html


  I just bought the 14.8mm a week ago cause the 16mm wasn't in stock. Oh well, at least the 14.8mm sounds amazing.


----------



## rkw

Sam L said:


> I just bought the 14.8mm a week ago cause the 16mm wasn't in stock. Oh well, at least the 14.8mm sounds amazing.


What do you think of the fit of the 14.8mm compared to other earbuds you own? You would characterize it as an average or smaller size earbud?


----------



## Richiyaado

This 14.8mm bud might be just the thing for my dinky ears, but that price... hoo, mama! I am enjoying my 16mm OurArt flagship buds, though, even if the price for those made me twitch.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Got the Yincrow-2000 yesterday. Can it get better than this ?


----------



## digititus

Serge Bernamej said:


> Got the Yincrow-2000 yesterday. Can it get better than this ?


I don't know. Please tell us more!


----------



## likeafranfran

Serge Bernamej said:


> Got the Yincrow-2000 yesterday. Can it get better than this ?


The Yincrow RW-2000 is a super earbud for the price according to the guys in this thread. I own the RW-1000 bass pro and is a 4x4 bud, so your option is a good option. After that comes the TOTL like chaconne, bell ti or some Phillippines or Indonesian customs.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

likeafranfran said:


> The Yincrow RW-2000 is a super earbud for the price according to the guys in this thread. I own the RW-1000 bass pro and is a 4x4 bud, so your option is a good option. After that comes the TOTL like chaconne, bell ti or some Phillippines or Indonesian customs.


Great ! And what is your favourite TOTL ?


----------



## 40760

Serge Bernamej said:


> Got the Yincrow-2000 yesterday. Can it get better than this ?



I've had the VE Sun Copper for a couple of days and it is already sounding better than the RW-2000.

But it requires a powerful amp to shine, comes with a fixed cable, weighs quite a lot heavier and costs about 4 times as much.

Is that all worth it for the better it gets?


----------



## Serge Bernamej

palestofwhite said:


> I've had the VE Sun Copper for a couple of days and it is already sounding better than the RW-2000.
> 
> But it requires a powerful amp to shine, comes with a fixed cable, weighs quite a lot heavier and costs about 4 times as much.
> 
> Is that all worth it for the better it gets?


Honestly, coming from being addicted to over ear headphones, it might very well be worth it. Will check out the VE Sum Copper.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Before I pull the trigger, anybody else in here recommends the Zen Sun Copper edition?
Right now my big boys are: zen 2.0 (2 of them with different tunings), zen 2.0 black edition, Yinman 600 on the way, Yincrow 2000, Zen LL.


----------



## 40760

Serge Bernamej said:


> Before I pull the trigger, anybody else in here recommends the Zen Sun Copper edition?
> Right now my big boys are: zen 2.0 (2 of them with different tunings), zen 2.0 black edition, Yinman 600 on the way, Yincrow 2000, Zen LL.


I think there are possibly 3 other members with the Sun Copper. One probably already sold his because he upgraded to Zen SU.
If you do get the Sun Copper, note that it is quite a bit harder to drive than the Sun DICE, though both are rated at 180ohms. It is a bit heavier too, so more suited for home use.

I'm quite surprised you actually bought the Zen black, because VE recently re-released an upgraded batch with one of their amps, but were very quickly sold out. I don't think they will be made again, and I do miss it.

Zen LL is really good if your ears don't go well with bigger shells. I like it, even though mine came free when I bought the Zen Omega Edition.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

palestofwhite said:


> I think there are possibly 3 other members with the Sun Copper. One probably already sold his because he upgraded to Zen SU.
> If you do get the Sun Copper, note that it is quite a bit harder to drive than the Sun DICE, though both are rated at 180ohms. It is a bit heavier too, so more suited for home use.
> 
> I'm quite surprised you actually bought the Zen black, because VE recently re-released an upgraded batch with one of their amps, but were very quickly sold out. I don't think they will be made again, and I do miss it.
> ...


Thanks for your remarks !
I mainly listen to my buds with big amps at home. The reason I switched to buds is because of neck pain, but now I’m just loving the trip. 
Earbuds are less fatiguing and very musical (I know, a very vague term).
I got the Zen Black edition for like 150USD from someone, I hope it’s a good deal.
And got another Zen 2.0 for 50USD which is a good deal indeed.
Now, I’m torn between the Sun Copper and a a good DAP.
But I lean towards the Sun as most of my listening is at home, by far.
Having multiple earbuds is all about the appreciation of different musical presentations.


----------



## 40760

Serge Bernamej said:


> Thanks for your remarks !
> I mainly listen to my buds with big amps at home. The reason I switched to buds is because of neck pain, but now I’m just loving the trip.
> Earbuds are less fatiguing and very musical (I know, a very vague term).
> I got the Zen Black edition for like 150USD from someone, I hope it’s a good deal.
> ...



No problem at all!

For my own case, I couldn't deal with headphones because I live in a hot and humid climate. IEMs are starting to hurt my ears as I get older and cannot wear them for long.
So earbuds are actually the most comfortable way for me to enjoy audio without disturbing others. You're not wrong, earbuds can be less fatiguing and musical, but most importantly open sounding and not so in your head.

Zen black for 150usd seems like a good value for one in good condition because I remember I paying about 300+usd for a new pair. Regular Zen 2.0 is still very special to me and I'm tempted to get a pair with 4.4mm balanced termination.

As for the DAP vs Sun Copper I cannot answer, because I do most of listening at home and do not use a DAP. Because it generally gets loud outside and even if I listen it will be short intervals on the public transport, so I just use my iPhone and AirPods Pro with noise cancellation. It is more to make the commute more enjoyable than critical music listening.

Since you have the Zen LL on the way, maybe you can try it with your phone and see if you really need a good DAP. Also, your RW-2000 should already sound really good out of almost anything.


----------



## likeafranfran

Serge Bernamej said:


> Great ! And what is your favourite TOTL ?


while waiting for my customs buds, I can say that tried the chaconne and zen 2.0 and for me the zen is superior. I really like the zen LL for the price is a giant killer for me. Dendroaspis for classical or OST. RW-1000 all-terrain buds. I really like try the bell-ti.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

palestofwhite said:


> No problem at all!
> 
> For my own case, I couldn't deal with headphones because I live in a hot and humid climate. IEMs are starting to hurt my ears as I get older and cannot wear them for long.
> So earbuds are actually the most comfortable way for me to enjoy audio without disturbing others. You're not wrong, earbuds can be less fatiguing and musical, but most importantly open sounding and not so in your head.
> ...


Thanks. Yes of course, very open sound which the non intrusive physical aspect of the earbud enhances: the comfortable weightless device.
It’s true we need very quiet environments, obviously. I’d use it outside only for walks in the forest or farms. But even then, it’s sometimes a bit too much noise outside, especially that I don’t like loud volume playback.
The only reason why I ordered the Zen LL was to have an even more comfortable earbud. Not that the others aren’t but I do find myself readjusting them too often, unless there’s a silicone ear fin, of which I’m not conviced yet regarding sound alteration.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

palestofwhite said:


> I couldn't deal with headphones because I live in a hot and humid climate. IEMs are starting to hurt my ears as I get older and cannot wear them for long.
> So earbuds are actually the most comfortable way for me to enjoy audio without disturbing others. You're not wrong, earbuds can be less fatiguing and musical, but most importantly open sounding and not so in your head.


So much this!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

likeafranfran said:


> while waiting for my customs buds, I can say that tried the chaconne and zen 2.0 and for me the zen is superior. I really like the zen LL for the price is a giant killer for me. Dendroaspis for classical or OST. RW-1000 all-terrain buds. I really like try the bell-ti.


Thus far I have been extremely impressed with my Bell-Ti 120Ω... I am now seeing why many rank them number one. Comfort is out of this world.


----------



## 40760 (Apr 30, 2021)

Serge Bernamej said:


> Thanks. Yes of course, very open sound which the non intrusive physical aspect of the earbud enhances: the comfortable weightless device.
> It’s true we need very quiet environments, obviously. I’d use it outside only for walks in the forest or farms. But even then, it’s sometimes a bit too much noise outside, especially that I don’t like loud volume playback.
> The only reason why I ordered the Zen LL was to have an even more comfortable earbud. Not that the others aren’t but I do find myself readjusting them too often, unless there’s a silicone ear fin, of which I’m not conviced yet regarding sound alteration.



If you talk about walking around, then I think you will appreciate the Zen LL. Fit is way better than Zen 2.0 and lighter. I think some people sleep with them too.

Sun Copper on the other hand you will need to adjust because they are quite heavy. Not just the brass shells, but the metal splitter and copper cables themselves are heavy too.

They come with some interesting ear hooks and many other owners have used them to get the best fit. I think these clear hooks for the Sun series are possibly the only kind that does not seem to mess with the sound. But they do not work with other earbud shells. I however didn't want to use them because I wear glasses and find it to get in the way.


----------



## 40760

WoodyLuvr said:


> Thus far I have been extremely impressed with my Bell-Ti 120Ω... I am now seeing why many rank them number one. Comfort is out of this world.


I didn't have the luck to own one... but someday I hope I get to try a pair...


----------



## Serge Bernamej

WoodyLuvr said:


> Thus far I have been extremely impressed with my Bell-Ti 120Ω... I am now seeing why many rank them number one. Comfort is out of this world.


So much praise for the Bell-ti. So Sun Copper vs Bell-ti ? Who wins (lol)?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Well, it sure took a long time for fedex to deliver this. 

Build quality on the chaconne itself is as expected, pretty good. Although it does have a sharp edge at the top vent:




One thing I have to mention is that the included accessories are pretty crappy for a bud at this price....
You only get 1 carry case, 1 shirt clip and 10 pairs of low-density full foams (which are very fragile and makes my ears itch as well, I already broke a pair, which has never happened before except on some buds in a 5 usd bud....), I have seen buds at 1/3 of the Chaconne´s price that include better accessories....


----------



## 40760

Serge Bernamej said:


> So much praise for the Bell-ti. So Sun Copper vs Bell-ti ? Who wins (lol)?



Comfort wise... definitely the Bell-Ti.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

palestofwhite said:


> Comfort wise... definitely the Bell-Ti.


I’m sold.


----------



## 1clearhead

Since yesterday, I've been enjoying my second pair of *JCALLY EP09*! I've heard more expensive models that can't touch the high resolution the EP09 demonstrates. These are epic for such a low price and the satisfaction it brings is so surreal coming from beryllium coated DD's!

Enjoy my PIC's on my personal TOTL!



-Clear


----------



## 40760

Serge Bernamej said:


> I’m sold.



I'm quite confident, because K's LBBS are the most comfortable earbuds I have worn to date.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

palestofwhite said:


> I'm quite confident, because K's LBBS are the most comfortable earbuds I have worn to date.


Excellent, comfort is a big factor. I guess this will serve me as my TOTL model. Even though I already love the Zens and the Yincrow.


----------



## 40760 (Apr 30, 2021)

Serge Bernamej said:


> Excellent, comfort is a big factor. I guess this will serve me as my TOTL model. Even though I already love the Zens and the Yincrow.


Problem is, it is quite hard to get a pair. They were out of parts when I tried to order a pair last month.

I think you can try your luck but those sold these days are the Onmyoji, which is the black and white version. Those are made of aluminum instead of titanium.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

palestofwhite said:


> Problem is, it is quite hard to get a pair. They were out of parts when I tried to order a pair last month. I think you can try your luck.


I just pulled the trigger on Ali. There are a few out there. 


palestofwhite said:


> Problem is, it is quite hard to get a pair. They were out of parts when I tried to order a pair last month. I think you can try your luck.


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


----------



## 40760

Serge Bernamej said:


> I just pulled the trigger on Ali. There are a few out there.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


That’s great. I’ll wait for your impressions!


----------



## Serge Bernamej

palestofwhite said:


> That’s great. I’ll wait for your impressions!


Hahaha yes. I still need to spend time with the newcomers: Zen LL, Yinman 600, Yincrow 2000 and Zen Black...I tend to focus on one can/earbud at a time.
Do you use the Bell-ti with foam ?


----------



## 40760

Serge Bernamej said:


> Hahaha yes. I still need to spend time with the newcomers: Zen LL, Yinman 600, Yincrow 2000 and Zen Black...I tend to focus on one can/earbud at a time.
> Do you use the Bell-ti with foam ?


With my LBBS I use the porous VE foams.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

palestofwhite said:


> With my LBBS I use the porous VE foams.


Ohhhhh I see !!! I noticed indeed that the VE foams are softer. Didn’t think it makes a difference. I think i just use any foams.
What is LBBS?


----------



## 40760

Serge Bernamej said:


> Ohhhhh I see !!! I noticed indeed that the VE foams are softer. Didn’t think it makes a difference. I think i just use any foams.
> What is LBBS?


K’s Little Black Bell S (LBB-S). The entry models of the K’s bell series. Bell-Ti is the flagship.

VE has actually quite a few types of foams. But I find the thin and porous VE foams to affect the sound the less.


----------



## digititus

WoodyLuvr said:


> Thus far I have been extremely impressed with my Bell-Ti 120Ω... I am now seeing why many rank them number one. Comfort is out of this world.


I'm doing my best not to be tempted by these. You are not helping


----------



## digititus

The Smabat ST10s gold has been on active duty for the last 2 weeks. These are quite impressive. The bass is awesome for buds, without sacrificing detail or atmosphere. For electronic music these are the buds which will put a smile on your face without you wishing for the extra sub bass provided by IEMS. Recommended if you can get them on sale (I paid $80).


----------



## Serge Bernamej

digititus said:


> I'm doing my best not to be tempted by these. You are not helping


I got tempted and gave in. No regrets.


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> Well, it sure took a long time for fedex to deliver this.
> 
> Build quality on the chaconne itself is as expected, pretty good. Although it does have a sharp edge at the top vent:
> 
> ...



How does it sound though, most important question!

Ya the accessories look crappish, but I'm also worried about the non detachable cable at this price. It is one awkward yank away from being a white elephant.



digititus said:


> The Smabat ST10s gold has been on active duty for the last 2 weeks. These are quite impressive. The bass is awesome for buds, without sacrificing detail or atmosphere. For electronic music these are the buds which will put a smile on your face without you wishing for the extra sub bass provided by IEMS. Recommended if you can get them on sale (I paid $80).



Yes I bought my SMABAT ST10S Black Gold for around $60 USD (2nd hand shop), and it has been one of my daily driver earbuds. Haven't met a earbud that has such good subbass extension/quantity. There's a slight 3 Khz peak when no foams are used, but by and large, very happy with it (needs amping though).

I wonder for the earbud experts here, is there any other earbud with better subbass quantity/extension than the Black Gold?


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> How does it sound though, most important question!
> 
> Ya the accessories look crappish, but I'm also worried about the non detachable cable at this price. It is one awkward yank away from being a white elephant.


I get to that tomorrow. Will try out full foams vs donut foams before I decide which one to use as well. I found out that the stock foams are pretty bad in durability and comfort.


----------



## waynes world

baskingshark said:


> I wonder for the earbud experts here, is there any other earbud with better subbass quantity/extension than the Black Gold?



I'm no expert. But I just took a break from the Black Golds and X6's and threw in the Kube V1's that I haven't listened to in quite a while. I don't want to compare the Kube's to the Smabats, but wow, what a different yet pleasureable sound. Plenty of bass, and a surreal surround-sound kinda thing going on with these Kube's. I feel silly for ignoring them for so long lol!


----------



## assassin10000

Sam L said:


> I just bought the 14.8mm a week ago cause the 16mm wasn't in stock. Oh well, at least the 14.8mm sounds amazing.



Sounds like you need silicone rings like these under your foams:


----------



## arar

It's kinda nuts to me how many of these higher priced buds seem to come with a non-detachable cable.


----------



## 40760

arar said:


> It's kinda nuts to me how many of these higher priced buds seem to come with a non-detachable cable.



Majority of earbud brands claim they did this because they felt the cable was part of the tuning.


----------



## arar

palestofwhite said:


> Majority of earbud brands claim they did this because they felt the cable was part of the tuning.



Well, that's an... Explanation. One I can't really swallow, but I suppose it doesn't matter - I've got my eyes set on the RW-2000 (an a longer custom cable) already. Was hoping to be able to order them in May, but I splurged on a new portable amp and some extras yesterday, so that's my audio budget for the month spent. Maybe in June.


----------



## furyossa

palestofwhite said:


> Majority of earbud brands claim they did this because they felt the cable was part of the tuning.


A very funny and frivolous excuse.  Does anyone really think that's the real reason.


----------



## 40760

furyossa said:


> A very funny and frivolous excuse.  Does anyone really think that's the real reason.



I don't think they care what we think though...


----------



## digititus

palestofwhite said:


> Majority of earbud brands claim they did this because they felt the cable was part of the tuning.


I've had more problems with MMCX connections than I have had with fixed cables. YMMV


----------



## 40760

digititus said:


> I've had more problems with MMCX connections than I have had with fixed cables. YMMV



I have not had much problem with fixed cables either.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Just wondering...are there transparent foam out there?

I wanna see the golden color on the Chaconne, but even using white foams kinda blocks that lol.


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> Just wondering...are there transparent foam out there?
> 
> I wanna see the golden color on the Chaconne, but even using white foams kinda blocks that lol.



Haha when the earbuds are in the ears, u can't see nothing!

FWIW I have bought white translucent type foams before, they ain't totally transparent, but u can roughly see thru it.


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> Haha when the earbuds are in the ears, u can't see nothing!
> 
> FWIW I have bought white translucent type foams before, they ain't totally transparent, but u can roughly see thru it.


Do you have the link for it?


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> Do you have the link for it?



I bought them from a local shop. But they were bad in quality, not recommended. Tore easily and became loose after just a few usages (so they frequently slipped off the earbud).


----------



## FranQL (May 1, 2021)

Hi! Due to work issues, Samsung A50 terminals fell into my hands, and they bring some buds.

I decided to try them, just confirm that they have a very good bass and an excellent tone, I do not want to exaggerate ... but in my personal opinion they have surprised me so much that I had to comment here.


----------



## FranQL (May 1, 2021)

For @furyossa :


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> A very funny and frivolous excuse.  Does anyone really think that's the real reason.


No, if the bud is supposed to be that good ... let me find my optimal tuning.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Well, here are my impressions for the Moondrop Chaconne:

Before I get into the sound, I will just mention that it passes my comfort and study test, seeing as I didn’t have any problems with comfort nor sound (not fatiguing) using it while studying for around 2 hours. Although the comfort isn’t as good as some other buds due to it having some more weight to it, it didn’t bother me too much but it could be because I am used to iems (they generally weight more than buds).

Setup: Schiit Asgard 3, full foams (NOT STOCK FOAMS)

Bass: Typical bud bass in pretty much every aspect, low quantity and high quality due to it being very fast and tight but lacking extension and rumble. Mid-bass texture is pretty good though, but sub-bass is lacking a lot of texture, quantity and rumble. Nothing really special here, you have heard this kind of bass from a bud if you have heard other buds already.

Mids: Male vocals do have some warmth and it does sound very natural due to the timbre. But as with most buds, it still lacks some warmth, it is very clean however. Female vocals…. are epic, they are really good. Clean and very detailed without being fatiguing at all.

Treble: Extension is great without being peaky at all. Very non-fatiguing but still very clean and detailed.

Tonality: Very well balanced but is slightly leaning towards warmth. The timbre is as you expect from a bud, very good.

Technicalities: Imaging, instrument separation and details are extremely good. Soundstage is huge, probably the biggest out of all my buds.

Conclusion: Is it worthy of having TOTL status? Yes, absolutely. If you love mids/treble and don’t mind low bass quantity, then this is probably endgame material. Also, if you have the Moondrop VX Classic, this is a true upgrade to that. Sounds very similar to it in tonality but refined on all aspects.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

1clearhead said:


> Since yesterday, I've been enjoying my second pair of *JCALLY EP09*! I've heard more expensive models that can't touch the high resolution the EP09 demonstrates. These are epic for such a low price and the satisfaction it brings is so surreal coming from beryllium coated DD's!
> 
> Enjoy my PIC's on my personal TOTL!
> 
> ...


on low frequencies with what can you compare?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Serge Bernamej said:


> Anybody knows if there is a sonic difference between VE Zen 2.0 normal edition and the black edition?
> There is one selling near me for almost twice the price ! I wonder what justifies that.


I heard that ZEN Black are better than standart version ones,  the first version was also praised.  I had a standart version of zen 2.0 and they are very overpriced, they have an excessively warm and boomy sound,  because of the warmth, the sound is drawn with strokes and detail is very lost.  Yinman 600 are cheaper and sound much better than ZEN 2.0 Also I heard Zen LL and I liked them better than Zen 2. Better skip the standard version zen 2.0 and get the zen black or other earbuds. But if you haven’t listened to expensive earbuds before, Zen 2 with good amplification will surprise you at first, it sounds like full-size and gives a Wow effect, it sounds like Vido but better quality. Important that zen 2 does not fit thick foam, you need to listen to them with very thin foams from ve pack or without.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Alex.Grimm said:


> I heard that ZEN Black are better than standart version ones,  the first version was also praised.  I had a standart version of zen 2.0 and they are very overpriced, they have an excessively warm and boomy sound,  because of the warmth, the sound is drawn with strokes and detail is very lost.  Yinman 600 are cheaper and sound much better than ZEN 2.0 Also I heard Zen LL and I liked them better than Zen 2. Better skip the standard version zen 2.0 and get the zen black or other earbuds. But if you haven’t listened to expensive earbuds before, Zen 2 with good amplification will surprise you at first, it sounds like full-size and gives a Wow effect, it sounds like Vido but better quality. Important that zen 2 does not fit thick foam, you need to listen to them with very thin foams from ve pack or without.


The more I get into the bud world the more I validate what you’re saying. The Zen warmth is unique though. Like the Nighthawk in headphone world. Will always love it for its tuning and maybe first love into audiophile earbudendom.
As for detachable vs non detachable debate, it will also vary between users. I tend to be a non nomadic listener, on home setup, so the wear and tare is minimal.


----------



## vygas

palestofwhite said:


> Majority of earbud brands claim they did this because they felt the cable was part of the tuning.


If the 32ohm PT2021's cable was a fixed one instead of MMCX I'd be beyond pissed. Not sure why but the stock cable just sounds veiled, tried every other cable on hand and it gained the treble it was missing with a stock cable. I'd love to see what would happen if people decided to MMCX mod some TOTL buds and if there's any changes like there are with the PT2021.


----------



## povidlo

RikudouGoku said:


> Just wondering...are there transparent foam out there?
> 
> I wanna see the golden color on the Chaconne, but even using white foams kinda blocks that lol.


I think they look sexy with white donuts on: complement whitish cable, plus can see the brass.

Aesthetically, ddhifi golden adapters look nice on Chaconne as well. 

I usually order 2.5mm cables which can be easily adapted to 3.5mm and 4.4mm sources using these connectors.


----------



## RikudouGoku

povidlo said:


> I think they look sexy with white donuts on: complement whitish cable, plus can see the brass.
> 
> Aesthetically, ddhifi golden adapters look nice on Chaconne as well.
> 
> I usually order 2.5mm cables which can be easily adapted to 3.5mm and 4.4mm sources using these connectors.


Yeah, donut foams do look really nice. But I preferred the sound and the fit with full foams.


----------



## 1clearhead (May 1, 2021)

Alex.Grimm said:


> on low frequencies with what can you compare?


It can easily compare with the likings of Yincrow X6, RW-9, but has a closer similarity to the ANN N200 earbud. The JCALLY EP09 has the tightest and quickest punch out of the four mentioned probably due to the beryllium coated DD's. It also has the best resolution and upper transparency as well. The ANN N200 comes closest to its signature, but lacks that airy transparency. The X6 and RW-9 demonstrate excellent lower bass but is not as quick and punchy, and the upper-range sounds a little plasticky when compared to the EP09's luscious transparency.

Hope this helps...

-Clear


----------



## Serge Bernamej

1clearhead said:


> It can easily compare with the likings of Yincrow X6, RW-9, but has a closer similarity to the ANN N200 earbud. The JCALLY EP09 has the tightest and quickest punch out of the four mentioned probably due to the beryllium coated DD's. It also has the best resolution and upper transparency as well. The ANN N200 comes closest to its signature, but lacks that airy transparency. The X6 and RW-9 demonstrate excellent lower bass but is not as quick and punchy, and the upper-range sounds a little plasticky when compared to the EP09's luscious transparency.
> 
> Hope this helps...
> 
> -Clear


What expansive earbuds do you think this outclasses ? You seem so excited about them.


----------



## 40760

vygas said:


> If the 32ohm PT2021's cable was a fixed one instead of MMCX I'd be beyond pissed. Not sure why but the stock cable just sounds veiled, tried every other cable on hand and it gained the treble it was missing with a stock cable. I'd love to see what would happen if people decided to MMCX mod some TOTL buds and if there's any changes like there are with the PT2021.



It is quite common to see people re-cable their TOTL earbuds, but not so much with modifying to MMCX.


----------



## assassin10000

palestofwhite said:


> It is quite common to see people re-cable their TOTL earbuds, but not so much with modifying to MMCX.


I wish the bell-ti was MMCX/detachable. Thats what has been holding me back from them.


----------



## 40760

assassin10000 said:


> I wish the bell-ti was MMCX/detachable. Thats what has been holding me back from them.



Seems like it is always a given for IEMs to come with detachable cable. Maybe the earbud brands need to look into it.

Even the FiiO EM5's cable is attached with swappable plugs. The few TOTL earbuds I can think of with MMCX is RW-2000 and 2pin for Rose Maria. Yinman 600 is discontinued.

The rest of popular TOTL offerings from K's, Moondrop, Shozy or even VE are all fixed. VE at some point had the Omega Edition that features 2 pin for the Asura (AOE) or Zen(ZOE), but very limited run only.


----------



## digititus

As most TOTL earbuds will be used in a domestic environment and not on the go, the requirement for replacement cables due to wear and tear is much less important. A well implemented cable and driver synergistic design will give consistently high quality results for the life of the earbud. This is more important to me than "cable rolling."


----------



## FranQL (May 2, 2021)

the fixed cables can justify everything that each considered, but at least I, I do not conceive that in the times that we are not able to change the cables to a tolt bud ... we are talking about a ridiculous cost.

To give an example, I like to use a certain type of cable, I have to settle for the one that I fix or not buy, in cases of more than € 200 the decision is easy.


----------



## 40760

digititus said:


> As most TOTL earbuds will be used in a domestic environment and not on the go, the requirement for replacement cables due to wear and tear is much less important. A well implemented cable and driver synergistic design will give consistently high quality results for the life of the earbud. This is more important to me than "cable rolling."



I think the people coming over from IEMs will usually feel the need for swappable cables and such.

Seasoned earbud users don't really care or maybe are already pretty used to fixed cable since the beginning of time. 

Same as when people switching from IEMs want even more isolation when they have their initial experience with earbuds.


----------



## RikudouGoku

palestofwhite said:


> I think the people coming over from IEMs will usually feel the need for swappable cables and such.
> 
> Seasoned earbud users don't really care or maybe are already pretty used to fixed cable since the beginning of time.
> 
> Same as when people switching from IEMs want even more isolation when they have their initial experience with earbuds.


The reason why I want removable cables, is mainly to be able to switch to my own 3rd party cables that are usually better in build quality and has 4.4mm. 

But the more important the reason is that in the unfortunate event that the cable died, I will be able to quickly and safely fix it by swapping cables. I don't even wanna think about what I would have to do if my chaconne cable died... 

The one single reason why I bought the chaconne (or any other expensive buds for that matter) is that I use buds at home and to be honest. I don't use them very much. Like my transducer usage is probably 70% iems, 25 % buds and 5% headphones.... 

So their chances of dying is slim due to low usage and because of the low risk environment (home).


----------



## FranQL

palestofwhite said:


> I think the people coming over from IEMs will usually feel the need for swappable cables and such.
> 
> Seasoned earbud users don't really care or maybe are already pretty used to fixed cable since the beginning of time.
> 
> Same as when people switching from IEMs want even more isolation when they have their initial experience with earbuds.


I think you have to keep the best of each thing, interchangeable cable is a good thing, and you can do it for a relatively low cost, why give it up? I do not know, it is my opinion.


----------



## 40760

FranQL said:


> I think you have to keep the best of each thing, interchangeable cable is a good thing, and you can do it for a relatively low cost, why give it up? I do not know, it is my opinion.



That is a perfectly fair opinion. Let's hope the few earbud brands can keep up and do more for us consumers, though I'm also not really sure what is stopping them. Maybe people aren't buying as much earbuds as compared to IEMs for them to justify investing in it?

BTW, how are those Samsung earbuds that came with the A50? I had a set of the A50 but I never opened to use the earpiece, and eventually traded in the whole set when I upgraded phones. Now I kind of regret not trying if you ask me.


----------



## FranQL

palestofwhite said:


> That is a perfectly fair opinion. Let's hope the few earbud brands can keep up and do more for us consumers, though I'm also not really sure what is stopping them. Maybe people aren't buying as much earbuds as compared to IEMs for them to justify investing in it?
> 
> BTW, how are those Samsung earbuds that came with the A50? I had a set of the A50 but I never opened to use the earpiece, and eventually traded in the whole set when I upgraded phones. Now I kind of regret not trying if you ask me.




Well, I have those buds, I have to dedicate some time to corroborate the first impression. As always, as they have not cost me anything, I do not pay them the attention they deserve.


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> The reason why I want removable cables, is mainly to be able to switch to my own 3rd party cables that are usually better in build quality and has 4.4mm.
> 
> But the more important the reason is that in the unfortunate event that the cable died, I will be able to quickly and safely fix it by swapping cables. I don't even wanna think about what I would have to do if my chaconne cable died...
> 
> ...



Yep agreed with this, the reasons for having a detachable cable are the following:

1) Better longevity - I've used IEMs for around 16 years, none of them had driver failure but 3 - 4 of them died at the cable (non detachable). So in my experience, non detachable cables are generally the first point of failure down the line. One of my non detachable IEMs died as it suffered an awkward yank, so that's really what I'm afraid of when a TOTL IEM/earbud doesn't come with detachable cables.

2) Use of BT adapters - some of us wanna convert the earbud/IEM to a BT dongle for more convenience.

3) Use of balanced cables or even to cable roll (for cable believers).



I've asked some earbud makers about why some of these TOTL sets don't incorporate detachable cables.
A few reasons they gave me:
1) They claim the tuning was made in mind with the cable in question - for non cable believers, move on. But for cable believers, hmm, even if this is so, I don't believe putting an aftermarket cable will give a night and day difference in sound, unless we are talking about a very crap stock cable with high resistance.

2) putting an MMCX socket on the earbud will sometimes cause the weight and centre of gravity of the earbud to shift from its initial design. I think this is a possible reason, indeed some lighter earbuds, once modified with an MMCX socket that is heavier, may give poorer fit as the stem is now the heaviest part of the earbud.

3) to cut costs. For cheap earbuds in the sub $10 region, eg KBEAR Stellar, Vido, Tingo TC200 etc, a MMCX connector will definitely add costs to the already cheap earbud. Fair enough, but that's no excuse for TOTL earbuds costing 10 - 20 times more for not incorporating an MMCX that is a fraction of its price.



Well, never ending debate here. Some folks do find MMCX may also be problematic with frequent cable changes, and would prefer a non detachable pair, and anyways most of us use earbuds at home due to the subpar isolation, so lesser chance of snagging a cable as such.


----------



## jogawag (May 2, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> is there any other earbud with better subbass quantity/extension than the Black Gold?


This is off the subject of MMCX/2Pin now, but in terms of subbass quantity, the ShoonTH ESEP-01BL buds has a lot.
It sounds slightly warmer and has a wide soundstage, and I've been listening to it for the past week.
I would recommend the ShoonTH ESEP-01BL to everyone.

https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/shoonth-esep-01bl.html


----------



## assassin10000

palestofwhite said:


> Seems like it is always a given for IEMs to come with detachable cable. Maybe the earbud brands need to look into it.
> 
> Even the FiiO EM5's cable is attached with swappable plugs. The few TOTL earbuds I can think of with MMCX is RW-2000 and 2pin for Rose Maria. Yinman 600 is discontinued.


Yeah, but not so great for those of us with smaller ears. MX500/15.4mm drivers are uncomfortable for me.


digititus said:


> As most TOTL earbuds will be used in a domestic environment and not on the go, the requirement for replacement cables due to wear and tear is much less important. A well implemented cable and driver synergistic design will give consistently high quality results for the life of the earbud. This is more important to me than "cable rolling."


I use mine both in the house and for walks or shopping as I prefer to be able to hear the environment around me. Granted I'm not doing a serious listening session when out of the house.   


palestofwhite said:


> I think the people coming over from IEMs will usually feel the need for swappable cables and such.
> 
> Seasoned earbud users don't really care or maybe are already pretty used to fixed cable since the beginning of time.
> 
> Same as when people switching from IEMs want even more isolation when they have their initial experience with earbuds.


More the lack of 3.5mm on new high end phones. Been using them for decades now lol.


RikudouGoku said:


> But the more important the reason is that in the unfortunate event that the cable died, I will be able to quickly and safely fix it by swapping cables.


Secondary reason I think expensive buds should have detachable cables.


FranQL said:


> I think you have to keep the best of each thing, interchangeable cable is a good thing, and you can do it for a relatively low cost, why give it up? I do not know, it is my opinion.


Agreed. It's not that much more and a fairly insignificant amount of difficulty.

They just need to not choose the cheaper/poorer quality MMCX connectors.



baskingshark said:


> Yep agreed with this, the reasons for having a detachable cable are the following:
> 
> 1) Better longevity - I've used IEMs for around 16 years, none of them had driver failure but 3 - 4 of them died at the cable (non detachable). So in my experience, non detachable cables are generally the first point of failure down the line. One of my non detachable IEMs died as it suffered an awkward yank, so that's really what I'm afraid of when a TOTL IEM/earbud doesn't come with detachable cables.
> 
> ...


Yep.

More #2 (BT conversion) than #1 (cable dying) for me.


As far as #2 of reasons why they don't use MMCX, that seems like poor reasoning. The MMCX weight change is tiny compared to the pull of cables, especially when moving/walking. And if you do a short or no-stem design earbud, you can use much more stable over ear cables.


----------



## RikudouGoku

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001291270773.html

Is there anyone that have heard both the standard and the bass version of this?


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001291270773.html
> 
> Is there anyone that have heard both the standard and the bass version of this?


Very nice spec. with wide freq. range 8Hz-40kHz. 
It looks like it uses an "old-school" driver with 17 holes in the back side.
All in all beautiful pair of buds. Comfort king


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Very nice spec. with wide freq. range 8Hz-40kHz.
> It looks like it uses an "old-school" driver with 17 holes in the back side.
> All in all beautiful pair of buds. Comfort king


Specs like the frequency range is absolutely pointless as long as it is 20hz-20khz.


----------



## Smasher

RikudouGoku said:


> Well, here are my impressions for the Moondrop Chaconne:
> 
> Before I get into the sound, I will just mention that it passes my comfort and study test, seeing as I didn’t have any problems with comfort nor sound (not fatiguing) using it while studying for around 2 hours. Although the comfort isn’t as good as some other buds due to it having some more weight to it, it didn’t bother me too much but it could be because I am used to iems (they generally weight more than buds).
> 
> ...


Worth the extra over RW 2000?


----------



## RikudouGoku (May 2, 2021)

Smasher said:


> Worth the extra over RW 2000?


Will probably review both of them when I have time. So take this with a grain of salt.

I say they are both performing on a similar level, its up to personal preference to decide which one is better for you. If you want a more bass-boosted-neutral bud, then the RW-2000 is better. If you want a more "bud-like"/ warm-neutral sound, then the Chaconne is better.


----------



## Smasher

RikudouGoku said:


> Will probably review both of them when I have time. So take this with a grain of salt.
> 
> I say they are both performing on a similar level, its up to personal preference to decide which one is better for you. If you want a more bass-boosted-neutral bud, then the RW-2000 is better. If you want a more "bud-like"/ warm-neutral sound, then the RW-2000 is better.


2nd one is the chaconne I assume?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Smasher said:


> 2nd one is the chaconne I assume?


Yes you are correct, my bad lol.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001291270773.html
> 
> Is there anyone that have heard both the standard and the bass version of this?


I heard only bass version


----------



## 40760

Alex.Grimm said:


> I heard only bass version


I’m curious, is it any good?


----------



## Serge Bernamej

F.... it ! This earbud thing is too awesome. It just NEVER fatigues me. I think I’ll be collecting all the top ones. I’m even very impressed with the relatively cheap Rosemary from Faaeal.
After the Bell-ti, my latest order is the Fiio em5.
I’m not looking for THE best, but it will be a joy to have so many different presentations.
I’m still in shock about how enjoyable the earbuds are. Thank God we still have affordable prices, unlike the craziness going on with the big boys (the over ears. I really don’t know the IEM world, as I can’t stand them).


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> Well, here are my impressions for the Moondrop Chaconne:
> 
> Before I get into the sound, I will just mention that it passes my comfort and study test, seeing as I didn’t have any problems with comfort nor sound (not fatiguing) using it while studying for around 2 hours. Although the comfort isn’t as good as some other buds due to it having some more weight to it, it didn’t bother me too much but it could be because I am used to iems (they generally weight more than buds).
> 
> ...



Bro how does the Chaconne compare to the NiceHCK EBX21?


----------



## furyossa (May 3, 2021)

Serge Bernamej said:


> I’m still in shock about how enjoyable the earbuds are. Thank God we still have affordable prices, unlike the craziness going on with the big boys (the over ears. I really don’t know the IEM world, as I can’t stand them).


As a music lover, I really respect everyone's thoughts, criticism and decision in choosing different models, whether they are IEM, headphones or earbuds.
Probably there will never be a universal model that can be said to be the best, ie it meets everyone's needs, because as we are all different, there will always be different requirements. Constant improvement and new achievements in the field of technology, design and many other things, make this hobby very attractive.

I am personally interested in industrial design and the variety of models is what attracts me the most in earbuds (especially if they are handmade like say these models #1, #2 by @uairekko ) compared to IEM, whose shape cannot vary much. Headphones are already a story unto themselves and require a lot more knowledge and effort to craft and tuning.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Serge Bernamej said:


> F.... it ! This earbud thing is too awesome. It just NEVER fatigues me. I think I’ll be collecting all the top ones. I’m even very impressed with the relatively cheap Rosemary from Faaeal.
> After the Bell-ti, my latest order is the Fiio em5.
> I’m not looking for THE best, but it will be a joy to have so many different presentations.
> I’m still in shock about how enjoyable the earbuds are. Thank God we still have affordable prices, unlike the craziness going on with the big boys (the over ears. I really don’t know the IEM world, as I can’t stand them).


Value goes like this IMO:

Earbuds > iems > headphones 




baskingshark said:


> Bro how does the Chaconne compare to the NiceHCK EBX21?


Chaconne has bigger soundstage, better timbre, slightly more bass quantity and lower extension, mids are more natural, airier and more extended treble and yet less fatiguing, overall tonality is slightly warmer, slightly better imaging.

But details and instrument separation are similar.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Well, I decided to compare the Chaconne to the Tanchjim Oxygen (iem) since that is probably my best transducer for acoustic/vocal focused music.

And damn, going from the Chaconne to the Oxygen was like going from an open-back hp to a closed-back hp.

Besides the bass, which obviously is better (lower extension, more rumble and higher quantity) on the Oxygen since its an iem. The treble is a lot airier and doesnt sound as bright and fatiguing, the Chaconne has like zero fatigue. Mids are a bigger surprise, since the Chaconne makes the Oxygen sound like it has 3rd rate timbre lol. Resolution and imaging/instrument separation are fairly similar, might be a bit better on the Oxygen though. But the soundstage on the Chaconne is....making the Oxygen sound narrow lol.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (May 3, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> I’m curious, is it any good?


At first there was sharpness and brightness, but it went away with warming up.  There is enough bass (bass version), but still the metal design of the shells affects the sound, it seems to me that in a plastic one the sound would be better, but maybe it's not the material, but the design of the shells.  With foams fit perfectly into the ear, without foams slippery. I liked the sound Bell-We bass version more than 7Hz p-twos, but I sold both. And I like RW-2000 more than K's Bell-We bass)


----------



## RikudouGoku

Alex.Grimm said:


> At first there was sharpness and brightness, but it went away with warming up.  There is enough bass (bass version), but still the metal design of the shells affects the sound, it seems to me that in a plastic one the sound would be better, but maybe it's not the material, but the design of the shells.  With foams fit perfectly into the ear, without foams slippery. I liked the sound more than 7 hertz, but I sold both. And I like RW-2000 more than K's Bell-We bass)


Does it have a similar signature like the RW-2000? Redundant or just a downgrade to get it if you got the RW-2000?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

RikudouGoku said:


> Does it have a similar signature like the RW-2000? Redundant or just a downgrade to get it if you got the RW-2000?


I had RW-2000, they sound very even, all frequencies are on the same line, the stage is not deep, but wide. The sound itself is excellent, but the setting is Chinese.  K's Bell-We bass version has depth and subbass unlike RW-2000.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Alex.Grimm said:


> I had RW-2000, they sound very even, all frequencies are on the same line, the stage is not deep, but wide. The sound itself is excellent, but the setting is Chinese.  K's Bell-We bass version has depth and subbass unlike RW-2000.


So the bell-we(bass version) got more subbass and perhaps lower mid bass than the RW-2000? Is it a bit brighter? 

Have you heard the chaconne? Is it more similar to that one?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

RikudouGoku said:


> So the bell-we(bass version) got more subbass and perhaps lower mid bass than the RW-2000? Is it a bit brighter?
> 
> Have you heard the chaconne? Is it more similar to that one?


I'm not sure that the mid bass more than in the RW-2000, I think Bell-We have less. I no longer have them and my memory is failing.  I didn't have a Chaconne.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Alex.Grimm said:


> I'm not sure that the mid bass more than in the RW-2000, I think Bell-We have less. I no longer have them and my memory is failing.  I didn't have a Chaconne.


Sounds good. They don't seem very similar, so having both shouldn't be redundant I guess?


----------



## Сomrade

In RW-2000, high frequencies, very close to the bass.


----------



## 1clearhead (May 3, 2021)

Serge Bernamej said:


> What expansive earbuds do you think this outclasses ? You seem so excited about them.


I'm always excited about every new earbud I get, 'cause you never know what you're going to get in each box of chocolates. But, all kidding aside! The upper range does outclass the majority of earbuds I have. If you go back several pages you will see my PIC's and my thoughts on the ones I've mentioned so far.

-Clear


----------



## DivineCurrent

Has anyone tried the JVC HA-F19M, or the F17M? They are Apple Earpod look-alikes, and I’m wondering if they are just as good or better. http://www.us.jvc.com/headphones/earbuds/ha_f17m/


----------



## Serge Bernamej (May 3, 2021)

After having spent my real first hour with the Yincrow-2000, being used to the Zen, I must say it feels a bit thin. Detailed, yes. Almost too bright, but not sibilant (weird because that sound signature usually comes with some sharp painful moments, which never happen here). Maybe the burn in thing ? I feel as if the (higher) mids lack a bit of body, perhaps because a bit shouty? I may just need brain burn-in.
Maybe it’s that one album, but I doubt it.
Resolution, details, separation, it’s all good, and fast.
I use it with foam of course and it is well and deeply seated in my ear.


----------



## waynes world

jogawag said:


> This is off the subject of MMCX/2Pin now, but in terms of subbass quantity, the ShoonTH ESEP-01BL buds has a lot.
> It sounds slightly warmer and has a wide soundstage, and I've been listening to it for the past week.
> I would recommend the ShoonTH ESEP-01BL to everyone.
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/shoonth-esep-01bl.html



I'll second that recommendation. The Shoon's are great. They have become my bedtime buddy buds lol, partly because the stem isn't as thick as other MX500 buds, so I can sleep on my side with them. Oh, and also, they sound great.

My only issue is that the cable has gotten stiff, but to be fair, that has happened with quite a few of my buds. I've read that this can be from sweat etc.

Does anyone know how to get rid of the stiffness? (no jokes please lol)


----------



## cappuchino (May 4, 2021)

waynes world said:


> My only issue is that the cable has gotten stiff, but to be fair, that has happened with quite a few of my buds. I've read that this can be from sweat etc.
> 
> Does anyone know how to get rid of the stiffness? (no jokes please lol)


*Ehem* Well, to get rid of the stiffness... only a recable will fix that. Maybe go the MMCX route as well. As far as I'm aware, there's nothing else you can do once that happens.

Are the Shoonth "good?" Like 30 USD good or more than 30 USD good? It has received underground hype in my country but the only problem is that it isn't available on Shopee or Lazada, so it's quite a rare earbud here.


----------



## 40760

Serge Bernamej said:


> F.... it ! This earbud thing is too awesome. It just NEVER fatigues me. I think I’ll be collecting all the top ones. I’m even very impressed with the relatively cheap Rosemary from Faaeal.
> After the Bell-ti, my latest order is the Fiio em5.
> I’m not looking for THE best, but it will be a joy to have so many different presentations.
> I’m still in shock about how enjoyable the earbuds are. Thank God we still have affordable prices, unlike the craziness going on with the big boys (the over ears. I really don’t know the IEM world, as I can’t stand them).



May I check, does your Faaeal Rosemary come with L-shaped or straight 3.5mm plug?


----------



## Serge Bernamej

palestofwhite said:


> May I check, does your Faaeal Rosemary come with L-shaped or straight 3.5mm plug?


L shape. I find the cable incredible for this price.


----------



## 40760

Serge Bernamej said:


> L shape. I find the cable incredible for this price.



I thought the cable looks good too for the price. Can you tell me more about the sound? I heard sub-bass is good with this model.


----------



## Serge Bernamej (May 4, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> I thought the cable looks good too for the price. Can you tell me more about the sound? I heard sub-bass is good with this model.


It’s a very full bodied sound with VERY strong bass. But I’m still an earbud beginner and I only listen to classical music.
Sound is wide, punchy with solid bass. The mids can become a tad muddy imo, but nothing abnormal or annoying.
Yincrow 2000 sound a lot thinner in comparaison.

Edit: My remark about the Yincrow here is not very wise as I’m still in my first couple of hours of listening and really it’s in another league, but I’m referring only to SQ.


----------



## jogawag (May 4, 2021)

cappuchino said:


> *Ehem* Well, to get rid of the stiffness... only a recable will fix that. Maybe go the MMCX route as well. As far as I'm aware, there's nothing else you can do once that happens.
> 
> Are the Shoonth "good?" Like 30 USD good or more than 30 USD good? It has received underground hype in my country but the only problem is that it isn't available on Shopee or Lazada, so it's quite a rare earbud here.


ClieOS commented on ESP-01B, a old sibling model (?) Of ShoonTH ESEP-01BL, as follows.

  "Possibility even better bass quality and extension than VE Zen 1.0. Slightly warm, good soundstage, but a little grainy on the top vocal. Very stiff cable and hard to drive."

I also agree as an assessment of the sound of the ShoonTH ESEP-01BL, although that cable is not so stiff yet...


----------



## 40760

jogawag said:


> ClieOS commented on ESP-01B, a old sibling model (?) Of ShoonTH ESEP-01BL, as follows.
> 
> "*Possibility even better bass quality and extension than VE Zen 1.0.* Slightly warm, good soundstage, but a little grainy on the top vocal. Very stiff cable and hard to drive."
> 
> I also agree as an assessment of the sound of the ShoonTH ESEP-01BL, although that cable is not so stiff yet...



That remark in itself is quite a high praise for something in this price bracket. I shouldn't be spending any more but this is piquing my interest.


----------



## cappuchino

palestofwhite said:


> That remark in itself is quite a high praise for something in this price bracket. I shouldn't be spending any more but this is piquing my interest.


You're from SEA, right? Please do share if you ever manage to find a seller on Shopee or Lazada.


----------



## 40760

cappuchino said:


> You're from SEA, right? Please do share if you ever manage to find a seller on Shopee or Lazada.



I tried but it is not possible to find them on either platforms.

It is only available on AE and Penon is from HK if I'm not wrong.


----------



## jogawag

Serge Bernamej said:


> It’s a very full bodied sound with VERY strong bass. But I’m still an earbud beginner and I only listen to classical music.
> Sound is wide, punchy with solid bass. The mids can become a tad muddy imo, but nothing abnormal or annoying.
> Yincrow 2000 sound a lot thinner in comparaison.


The Yincrow RW-2000 requires 200 hours of burn-in.
Until then, if the Yincrow RW-2000 sounds rather thin, changing the included silver-plated cable to a MMCX copper cable will improve the sound.


----------



## cheebs (May 4, 2021)

Rose Maria 2 or HD 650+amp? Just sound quality wise, independent of comfort, etc.


----------



## rprodrigues

Alex.Grimm said:


> At first there was sharpness and brightness, but it went away with warming up.  There is enough bass (bass version), but still the metal design of the shells affects the sound, it seems to me that in a plastic one the sound would be better, but maybe it's not the material, but the design of the shells.  With foams fit perfectly into the ear, without foams slippery. I liked the sound Bell-We bass version more than 7Hz p-twos, but I sold both. And I like RW-2000 more than K's Bell-We bass)



I wonder if aftermarket cables may improve the RW-2000. 

Do you use your RW-2000 with any 'upgrade' cable?


----------



## Serge Bernamej

jogawag said:


> The Yincrow RW-2000 requires 200 hours of burn-in.
> Until then, if the Yincrow RW-2000 sounds rather thin, changing the included silver-plated cable to a MMCX copper cable will improve the sound.


Thanks. In any case I don’t regret buying it. It’s the most radical, clinical, detailed (but I suspect the tuning factor here) earbud, and I don’t mean this in a bad way.
To my humble ears it sounds like a well done Datura x, that is trash to my ears.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

palestofwhite said:


> That remark in itself is quite a high praise for something in this price bracket. I shouldn't be spending any more but this is piquing my interest.


I’ve fell into the rabbit hole. Right now, my mind keeps thinking about the Sun Dice. Still waiting for the Yinman, Zen LL, Bell-ti, Zen black and Fiio em5 to come...
I don’t look into my bank account, that’s how I manage huge expanses: denial. 
I don’t recommend doing this.
I only apply this to music though, as I think it’s the best thing to spend money on.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Serge Bernamej said:


> I’ve fell into the rabbit hole. Right now, my mind keeps thinking about the Sun Dice. Still waiting for the Yinman, Zen LL, Bell-ti, Zen black and Fiio em5 to come...
> I don’t look into my bank account, that’s how I manage huge expanses: denial.
> I don’t recommend doing this.
> I only apply this to music though, as I think it’s the best thing to spend money on.


This Bell-ti?




https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983807186.html

But damn, thats a big and expensive haul of buds lol.


----------



## 40760

Serge Bernamej said:


> I’ve fell into the rabbit hole. Right now, my mind keeps thinking about the Sun Dice. Still waiting for the Yinman, Zen LL, Bell-ti, Zen black and Fiio em5 to come...
> I don’t look into my bank account, that’s how I manage huge expanses: denial.
> I don’t recommend doing this.
> I only apply this to music though, as I think it’s the best thing to spend money on.


You don't have to make up your mind now! While you wait for those earbuds to arrive, you have all the time to slowly think about it.

I will take the Copper, but I can understand because I started from the DICE myself. And in case you do like the Zen LL, maybe the Zen LL-SL Edition is better for you.


----------



## Serge Bernamej (May 4, 2021)

I have noticed that with my Zen and the Yincrow, it is better to angle the earbud, as shown in pic 2, for a fuller sound. Excuse the sketchy pics but I did this fast just to make the point. Maybe it’s a very known fact in this thread so excuse me if I’m redundant.

So basically, it has to be tilted forward a bit.

Pic 1 = straight, not good.

pic 2 = tilted, good.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

RikudouGoku said:


> This Bell-ti?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983807186.html
> 
> But damn, thats a big and expensive haul of buds lol.


Ahhaha, yes but I got just the silver one.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

palestofwhite said:


> You don't have to make up your mind now! While you wait for those earbuds to arrive, you have all the time to slowly think about it.
> 
> I will take the Copper, but I can understand because I started from the DICE myself. And in case you do like the Zen LL, maybe the Zen LL-SL Edition is better for you.


Damn !!! There’s a SL Edition ! Hahahaha...
I’m hesitant between Copper and Dice because apparently Dice is warmer.


----------



## Luis1316

RikudouGoku said:


> This Bell-ti?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983807186.html
> 
> But damn, thats a big and expensive haul of buds lol.


Yeah, It's quite expensive. I managed to drag it down to 250 euros with promotion coupons when I bought it. You can also tell them to make a 4.4 mm version of it which I did.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Luis1316 said:


> Yeah, It's quite expensive. I managed to drag it down to 250 euros with promotion coupons when I bought it. You can also tell them to make a 4.4 mm version of it which I did.


Nice, although I am looking at the Bell-WE since the Ti might have too much treble for me and is very expensive.


----------



## 40760

Serge Bernamej said:


> Damn !!! There’s a SL Edition ! Hahahaha...
> I’m hesitant between Copper and Dice because apparently Dice is warmer.



Tonally both are actually not that much different, but Copper is still technically superior. Overall, the Copper sits between the Zen and DICE if you ask me.
The Sun series is tuned more for details and separation, unlike Zen series which is much warmer and bass heavy.

I might want to get the Zen LL SL Edition somewhere down the road, as comfort earbuds.


----------



## 40760

Serge Bernamej said:


> Ahhaha, yes but I got just the silver one.



I hope you got the 120ohm one, since you like warmer sound signature.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Very confusing description on the Rose Maria 2. Is it a 20mm + 10mm setup, or 2 x 14.8mm or 2 x 16mm?


----------



## Serge Bernamej

palestofwhite said:


> I hope you got the 120ohm one, since you like warmer sound signature.


Sir you scared me ! Hahahaha...so relieved that I did !
By the way, listening to some Vivaldi concertos and the Yincrow 2000 is actually already glorious.


----------



## rprodrigues

Serge Bernamej said:


> Sir you scared me ! Hahahaha...so relieved that I did !
> By the way, listening to some Vivaldi concertos and the Yincrow 2000 is actually already glorious.


Would you mind sharing the link to them? I'm using the 2000 right now.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

rprodrigues said:


> Would you mind sharing the link to them? I'm using the 2000 right now.


wohoo ! https://www.brilliantclassics.com/articles/v/vivaldi-edition/
I’m listening to the 37th CD of this majestic box set, which is not some crappy compilation but a truly excellent box of more than 60 CDs.
So right now I’m at the 37th CD but can’t tell you exactly which concertos.
Honestly, I love Vivaldi to death, but Vivaldi is Vivaldi in all his instrumental works, so whatever concerto you choose, you’ll get the same style.
If you use this particular album, skip the first few tracks for a better Audio recording.

But really the Yincrow is such a clean and clear sound. Worth every penny.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

So when people suggest changing the cable from original silver to copper to get a warmer sound, logically, can’t you just keep the original cable and add a small extension of your choice?
Like this for example:


----------



## RikudouGoku

Serge Bernamej said:


> So when people suggest changing the cable from original silver to copper to get a warmer sound, logically, can’t you just keep the original cable and add a small extension of your choice?
> Like this for example:


It doesnt work that way. 

Cables doesnt affect the sound, they merely affect the resistance which in turn might have some effect on the volume. The FR wont change since buds are using DD´s instead of BA´s (BA only iems might have some FR changes depending on the total resistance, where the cable is a factor for that) like iems can have. If someone is hearing a difference, it is merely a volume difference giving you a different impression on the sound or just placebo.


----------



## cheebs

@RikudouGoku Any plans on reviewing the Smabat ST-10s Gold/M2 Pro, I'd love a comparison between them and the RW-2000.


----------



## RikudouGoku

cheebs said:


> @RikudouGoku Any plans on reviewing the Smabat ST-10s Gold/M2 Pro, I'd love a comparison between them and the RW-2000.


Not interested in them, sadly with buds there arent a lot of review units so everything is self bought. Not interested in getting something I suspect is a downgrade.


----------



## rprodrigues

cheebs said:


> @RikudouGoku Any plans on reviewing the Smabat ST-10s Gold/M2 Pro, I'd love a comparison between them and the RW-2000.



I have the M2 Pro with drivers from the ST-10s gold. It has a very good bass/subbass extension, but it may be harsh with some tracks (at least my set). Besides that, the RW-2000 is just in another level soundwise.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> Nice, although I am looking at the Bell-WE since the Ti might have too much treble for me and is very expensive.


Which Bell-Ti do you speak of?

My Ksearphone Bell-Ti 120Ω version is very tame and treble friendly as I am extremely sensitive to and detest sibilant bright treble.


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Which Bell-Ti do you speak of?
> 
> My Ksearphone Bell-Ti 120Ω version is very tame and treble friendly as I am extremely sensitive to and detest sibilant bright treble.


The "black-white" version i guess, the other 2 are definitely too expensive for me.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 4, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> The "black-white" version i guess, the other 2 are definitely too expensive for me.


Gotcha; the *Ks Bell-Ti Onmyoji 30Ω* aka "_New Black & White Little Bell" _which by the way is actually aluminum not titanium. Thus explaining the lower cost compared to the two (2) other models in this line the 32Ω & 120Ω "_Titanium Lings_".

Regarding the treble of the Bell-Ti Onmyoji it is nearly if not exactly the same as the Bell-Ti 120Ω. Where the difference comes in between these two models is in the bass which is looser on the Onmyoji (not as tight or detailed but not horribly so) and the mid-range which is livelier on the Onmyoji which some find to be more favorable for certain types of vocals.


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Gotcha; the *Ks Bell-Ti Onmyoji 30Ω* aka "_New Black & White Little Bell" _which by the way is actually aluminum not titanium.
> 
> Regarding the treble of the Bell-Ti Onmyoji it is nearly if not exactly the same as Bell-Ti 120Ω. Where the difference comes in between the two models is in the bass which is looser on the Onmyoji (not as tight or detailed but not horribly so) and the mid-range which is livelier on the Onmyoji which some find to be more favorable for certain types of vocals.


Does it have more bass quantity that results in it being looser as well? I wouldnt mind it, if it was similar like the Yincrow X6 bass lol. 

Do you know how the Bell-WE compares vs the onmyoji? I would want something with a more sub-bass focus (since the RW-2000 is mid-bass focused) and with a treble similar to the Chaconne or the RW-2000. Not like the Turandot with its shouty treble and unnatural timbre....


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Oct 18, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Does it have more bass quantity that results in it being looser as well? I wouldnt mind it, if it was similar like the Yincrow X6 bass lol.
> 
> Do you know how the Bell-WE compares vs the onmyoji? I would want something with a more sub-bass focus (since the RW-2000 is mid-bass focused) and with a treble similar to the Chaconne or the RW-2000. Not like the Turandot with its shouty treble and unnatural timbre....


Very good question. No the bass isn't more pronounced or even lower... maybe just a tad faster perhaps. The Bell-Ti 120Ω is more smooth and relaxed where the Bell-Ti Onmyoji is livelier.

Unfortunately, I have yet to listen to the Ks Bell-We 158Ω (aka "_New White Ling E_") in either the Standard or Bass version.

I know you were very disappointed in the •••• Audio Turandot but I wonder if you might have been unlucky and gotten a lemon as I really do like my Turandots and have not experienced any treble or timbre issues with them at all as you describe. Perhaps they changed drivers during production or something as I am rather sensitive to bad or bright treble... fatiguing me rather quickly followed immediately be either an earache or headache or both.


----------



## Narayan23

RikudouGoku said:


> Not interested in them, sadly with buds there arent a lot of review units so everything is self bought. Not interested in getting something I suspect is a downgrade.


I had the Smabat ST10 S Gold for a while, best bass I´ve heard from an earbud, clean sounding, wide and airy soundstage...but there was this slight brightness and clinical characteristic to the sound that I couldn´t get over, when I purchased the Yincrow X6 and first listened to them I thought their mids were recessed compared to the Smabat which I didn´t like, but with further use I found myself reaching for the X6 every time because it was more organic and musical sounding to me, I sold the ST S Gold. 

Would the RW 2000 be the natural upgrade path for an X6 lover? Is there enough sound quality difference to warrant purchasing them? TIA.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Narayan23 said:


> I had the Smabat ST10 S Gold for a while, best bass I´ve heard from an earbud, clean sounding, wide and airy soundstage...but there was this slight brightness and clinical characteristic to the sound that I couldn´t get over, when I purchased the Yincrow X6 and first listened to them I thought their mids were recessed compared to the Smabat which I didn´t like, but with further use I found myself reaching for the X6 every time because it was more organic and musical sounding to me, I sold the ST S Gold.
> 
> Would the RW 2000 be the natural upgrade path for an X6 lover? Is there enough sound quality difference to warrant purchasing them? TIA.


The RW-2000 is more mid-bassy than the X6 which is more sub-bass focused. Mids and treble are 100% an upgrade from the X6, but if you like the bass on the X6, the RW-2000 isnt guaranteed to satisfy you the same way the X6 does. (which is why I am still looking for a proper X6 upgrade as well...)


----------



## FranQL (May 4, 2021)

In my case, thanks to this one, has managed to let me buy buds for the moment, that's enough.

I get to enjoy my music collection with them.






But ... I keep reading carefully ...


----------



## digititus

Narayan23 said:


> I had the Smabat ST10 S Gold for a while, best bass I´ve heard from an earbud, clean sounding, wide and airy soundstage...but there was this slight brightness and clinical characteristic to the sound that I couldn´t get over, when I purchased the Yincrow X6 and first listened to them I thought their mids were recessed compared to the Smabat which I didn´t like, but with further use I found myself reaching for the X6 every time because it was more organic and musical sounding to me, I sold the ST S Gold.
> 
> Would the RW 2000 be the natural upgrade path for an X6 lover? Is there enough sound quality difference to warrant purchasing them? TIA.


I would agree that the ST10s gold can have the occasional sharp edge (easily EQ'd), however they are on another level of performance compared to the X6 IMHO. The X6 sounds veiled in comparison. The Smabats have great detail and separation whilst the bass is awesome for buds. They also scale well with power whereas the X6 falls apart fairly quickly when you raise the volume and that good bass turns to mush. Just my $0.02. Shows how we all hear things differently!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 5, 2021)

digititus said:


> I would agree that the ST10s gold can have the occasional sharp edge (easily EQ'd), however they are on another level of performance compared to the X6 IMHO. The X6 sounds veiled in comparison. The Smabats have great detail and separation whilst the bass is awesome for buds. They also scale well with power whereas the X6 falls apart fairly quickly when you raise the volume and that good bass turns to mush. Just my $0.02. Shows how we all hear things differently!


Very well said. I will immediately admit that some may have more critical (better) hearing than I but besides that I do think that a major culprit worth considering is simply that the *Smabat ST-10S "Black-Gold"* does not always play well with certain music genres and thus may explain why some do not like their sound presentation and quickly chalk it up to poor tuning. Again, with that said, I do respect a number of our "experienced" comrades here on this thread and their solidly argued opinions and reviews against the *Smabat ST-10S "Black-Gold" *.


----------



## Serge Bernamej (May 5, 2021)

I’m very sad to say, almost desperate (considering the money spent) but when listening to this full album:


I prefer the Rosemary way more than the Yincrow.
In the headphone world the Yincrow 2000 would be like an HD800 and the Rosemary more like an HD600.

Anyone interested in the Yincrow 2000 with 5 hours of use for half the price ?

Edit: Sorry forget what I wrote. Too much obsession and A\Bing and fast judgements. Yincrow is still awesome. It might be that this particular album is oddly mixed, etc.


----------



## jogawag (May 5, 2021)

Serge Bernamej said:


> I’m very sad to say, almost desperate (considering the money spent) but when listening to this full album:
> 
> 
> I prefer the Rosemary way more than the Yincrow.
> ...



For suppressing the treble and enhancing the bass of the Yincrow RW-2000, you can try double foams or a copper cable like the one below.
www.aliexpress.com/item/32974773971.html
www.aliexpress.com/item/32977455076.html

Edit: That albumn performance is probably only suitable for fairly warm earbuds, as the treble is too strong.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Serge Bernamej said:


> I’m very sad to say, almost desperate (considering the money spent) but when listening to this full album:
> 
> 
> I prefer the Rosemary way more than the Yincrow.
> ...



That kind of genre (classical/acoustic) isnt very suited for the RW-2000 though with its warm and mid-bassy tuning. Something like the Moondrop Chaconne would suit it more.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

jogawag said:


> For suppressing the treble and enhancing the bass of the Yincrow RW-2000, you can try double foams or a copper cable like the one below.
> www.aliexpress.com/item/32974773971.html
> www.aliexpress.com/item/32977455076.html
> 
> Edit: That albumn performance is probably only suitable for fairly warm earbuds, as the treble is too strong.


Thanks a lot for confirming !!!! Also i did not pick the worst track.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

RikudouGoku said:


> That kind of genre (classical/acoustic) isnt very suited for the RW-2000 though with its warm and mid-bassy tuning. Something like the Moondrop Chaconne would suit it more.


Honestly, if there was more warmth and mid bassiness it would make it easier in this case as I find the Yincrow too sharp and thin in this album.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Serge Bernamej said:


> Honestly, if there was more warmth and mid bassiness it would make it easier in this case as I find the Yincrow too sharp and thin in this album.


Interesting, I wouldnt think something like that would need to be warmer. Usually with acoustic/classic music you actually want a somewhat brighter tonality and with a thinner rather than thick note-weight.


----------



## Serge Bernamej (May 5, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Interesting, I wouldnt think something like that would need to be warmer. Usually with acoustic/classic music you actually want a somewhat brighter tonality and with a thinner rather than thick note-weight.


I hear what you say. Most people think that too. But the fact is that classical music in general is already “too thin” so to speak. Which is why a good bass is very important to it. Of course, too much of a bloom or bloodiness over the mids is not good neither.
And very often the audio recording lends itself to more harshness as a perfect balance and control is harder and more costly to achieve from a production perspective.
Also the very nature of classical music makes it hard to be tonally soothing with its huge variety of timber, volume (dynamics) and tone.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Serge Bernamej said:


> I hear what you say. Most people think that too. But the fact is that classical music in general is already “too thin” so to speak. Which is why a good bass is very important to it. Of course, too much of a bloom or bloodiness over the mids is not good neither.
> And very often the audio recording lends itself to more harshness as a perfect balance and control is harder and more costly to achieve from a production perspective.
> Also the very nature of classical music makes it hard to be tonally soothing with it’s huge variety of timber, volume (dynamics) and tome.


Well, I guess acoustic music is too big of a classification to generalize. In my library however, most of them do benefit from a brighter and thinner tonality rather than the opposite (warm and thick).


----------



## wskl

Serge Bernamej said:


> I hear what you say. Most people think that too. But the fact is that classical music in general is already “too thin” so to speak. Which is why a good bass is very important to it. Of course, too much of a bloom or bloodiness over the mids is not good neither.
> And very often the audio recording lends itself to more harshness as a perfect balance and control is harder and more costly to achieve from a production perspective.
> Also the very nature of classical music makes it hard to be tonally soothing with its huge variety of timber, volume (dynamics) and tone.



I think we may share similar taste on how classical music should be heard so I will pay extra attention to your posts in the future.  I see many comments from people who would recommend a neutral sounding earphone for classical but it doesn't always sound right to my ears.  Of course it does come down to a matter of taste and I do prefer some extra warmth and slightly thicker mids. 

I do find that "some" modern recordings have a thinness about them which I do not like at all and they can sound edgy or metallic.  And for older recordings from the analogue era, they have a nice warmth but a resolving earbud can easily expose the flaws in the recording which is also not good.

Personally I have no problem using a warm earbud with classical, it may not be accurate or true to the recording but for certain situations it can make the music most enjoyable, e.g. for chamber music, I like the extra richness it brings to the cello.


----------



## Сomrade (May 5, 2021)

Serge Bernamej said:


> I’m very sad to say, almost desperate


Try the experiment.
It should get rid of additional high frequencies.
Cut scissors, a round piece of paper from which bags for tea are made for tea and put it under the foam.
Try.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

wskl said:


> I think we may share similar taste on how classical music should be heard so I will pay extra attention to your posts in the future.  I see many comments from people who would recommend a neutral sounding earphone for classical but it doesn't always sound right to my ears.  Of course it does come down to a matter of taste and I do prefer some extra warmth and slightly thicker mids.
> 
> I do find that "some" modern recordings have a thinness about them which I do not like at all and they can sound edgy or metallic.  And for older recordings from the analogue era, they have a nice warmth but a resolving earbud can easily expose the flaws in the recording which is also not good.
> 
> Personally I have no problem using a warm earbud with classical, it may not be accurate or true to the recording but for certain situations it can make the music most enjoyable, e.g. for chamber music, I like the extra richness it brings to the cello.


Will respond to you later !


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Сomrade said:


> Try the experiment.
> It should get rid of additional high frequencies.
> Cut scissors, a round piece of paper from which bags for tea are made for tea and put it under the foam.
> Try.


You should have added at the end of your message: “and thank me later”.
I can’t confirm on the long term but I immediately see a great improvement !
This is genius !
Many many thanks !
Still to be confirmed on the long term.


----------



## Сomrade

Happy to help.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Just tried double foaming and it seems to work well too !


----------



## jogawag (May 5, 2021)

Serge Bernamej said:


> Just tried double foaming and it seems to work well too !


By the way, the SHOONTH ESEP-01BL with double-foaming makes a good thick sub-bass!


----------



## Dany1 (May 5, 2021)

Guys suggest me 3-5 Great earbuds that i can buy in 10-20$ range on Aliexpress.  So far i have personally listed down Faael Rosemary, Openheart Earbuds, Sennheiser MX375 and Memt R7 or T5.

Which 2 would you prefer from these ? Also suggest any others in this price range if they're worth buying.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Dany1 said:


> Guys suggest me 3-5 Great earbuds that i can buy in 10-20$ range on Aliexpress.  So far i have personally listed down Faael Rosemary, Openheart Earbuds, Sennheiser MX375 and Memt R7 or T5.
> 
> Which 2 would you prefer from these ? Also suggest any others in this price range if they're worth buying.


Yincrow X6 and the NiceHCK MX500.


----------



## Dany1

RikudouGoku said:


> Yincrow X6 and the NiceHCK MX500.


I have Fengru EMX500 ....is Nicehck MX500 and Fengru Emx500 same thing, just rebranded ? or they tuned quite differently ?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Dany1 said:


> I have Fengru EMX500 ....is Nicehck MX500 and Fengru Emx500 same thing, just rebranded ? or they tuned quite differently ?


Honestly no idea...


----------



## povidlo

Folks, check out my mini-comparison review of Audio-Technica ATH-CM2000Ti and Moondrop Chaconne:

With Chaconne, I confidently ordered them from China after reading many positives reviews saying they’re TOTL. With CM2kTi, they have a lot of mixed reviews but I was luckily able to order it directly from Amazon so I basically had a free 30-day trial (after which I decided to keep them). It’s a very unique model because it’s the latest (and probably the last) premium earbud made by a major traditional Japanese or German manufacturer. And in my opinion they are easily on the level with Chaconne, just a somewhat (not too much) different sound signature.

Both earbud models offer high-end build quality with titanium housing. Each model is using a high-end single dynamic driver structure. Chaconne and CM2kTi are excellent in the timbre/musicality department. They sound great with variety of music. They’re manage to be quite forgiving and highly resolving in the details at once: so older and newer recordings are well rendered. DSD/bi-aural hi-res stuff from a proper source can showcase the quality scale these both earbuds models can reach.

Presentation is different. CM2kTi provides for a more of comparatively engaging front row listening experience with in-your-face vocals and drums; Chaconne is more of a 10th row ticket, laid-back, with various sounds positioned dynamically closer to each other. Soundstage is huge on both with great sense of space; Chaconne having a rounder presentation with more depth; CM2kTi is wider and airier. This part is a bit hard to explain but I’ll try: although Chaconne’s vocals sound less prominent in the mix overall, they are somewhat more lifted from the other sounds than with CM2kTi whereas vocals sound more prominent but less holographic.

Bass is weakest part of the frequency spectrum on both- with Chaconne extending slightly more sub-low; while CM2kTi has a bit more of a mid-bass thump. However, both take EQ pretty well with a quick low shelf bump- Chaconne responds better and can reach slightly higher bass quantities before distorting.

They’re both mid-centric, with Chaconne leaning more to upper mids with one-of-a-kind female vocals presentation: extremely clean, emotional/engaging, great vocal note extension and creamy decay. Same applies to male vocals except they could at times sound a slight bit more higher-pitch that usual (feminine?). This is where CM2kTi takes the crown with meatier, weightier, more authoritative male vocals; while females sound really, really good still.

Treble, just like mids, are outstanding on both. Non-fatiguing, yet detailed. Chaconne is more sparkly, CM2kTi is smoother. But both reach very high, with great execution in terms of having lots of quantity yet excellent harshness control.

Although Chaconne is warmer, it’s warmth is at low level comparing to something like Toneking Viridis or FAAEAL Rosemary. They both pair better with a warmer source (like Sony) that gives the sound more body, than with a clean/analytical source (like ESS chip).

Sound quality aside, CM2kTi comes with some tangible perks:
- warranty support: major manufacturer with a local office
- detachable cable: comes with 3.5mm and 4.4mm cables, along with real leather case
- light weight: can wear for longer sessions without fatigue

I highly recommend both models to all earbuds lovers (barring hardcore bassheads). Let me know if you have any questions.



Spoiler: quick pic


----------



## jogawag

Dany1 said:


> Guys suggest me 3-5 Great earbuds that i can buy in 10-20$ range on Aliexpress.  So far i have personally listed down Faael Rosemary, Openheart Earbuds, Sennheiser MX375 and Memt R7 or T5.
> 
> Which 2 would you prefer from these ? Also suggest any others in this price range if they're worth buying.


Openheart Earbuds and Qian69.


----------



## 1clearhead

MEMT T5 are great semi-open buds, a must have! And, for around $30 dollars the JCALLY EP09 are just amazing in their own right! Resolution is downright gorgeous!

-Clear


----------



## Dany1

Will the Fiio BTR5 be able to drive 150 ohms Faeel Rosemary earbuds ?


----------



## furyossa

Dany1 said:


> Will the Fiio BTR5 be able to drive 150 ohms Faeel Rosemary earbuds ?


Without doupt even 600ohm buds


----------



## furyossa

Сomrade said:


> Try the experiment.
> It should get rid of additional high frequencies.
> Cut scissors, a round piece of paper from which bags for tea are made for tea and put it under the foam.
> Try.


Old tricks never die


----------



## furyossa

povidlo said:


> Folks, check out my mini-comparison review of Audio-Technica ATH-CM2000Ti and Moondrop Chaconne:
> 
> With Chaconne, I confidently ordered them from China after reading many positives reviews saying they’re TOTL. With CM2kTi, they have a lot of mixed reviews but I was luckily able to order it directly from Amazon so I basically had a free 30-day trial (after which I decided to keep them). It’s a very unique model because it’s the latest (and probably the last) premium earbud made by a major traditional Japanese or German manufacturer. And in my opinion they are easily on the level with Chaconne, just a somewhat (not too much) different sound signature.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this mini-comparison. What can you say about comfort?


----------



## RikudouGoku

povidlo said:


> Folks, check out my mini-comparison review of Audio-Technica ATH-CM2000Ti and Moondrop Chaconne:
> 
> With Chaconne, I confidently ordered them from China after reading many positives reviews saying they’re TOTL. With CM2kTi, they have a lot of mixed reviews but I was luckily able to order it directly from Amazon so I basically had a free 30-day trial (after which I decided to keep them). It’s a very unique model because it’s the latest (and probably the last) premium earbud made by a major traditional Japanese or German manufacturer. And in my opinion they are easily on the level with Chaconne, just a somewhat (not too much) different sound signature.
> 
> ...


Guess I dont need to review the Chaconne anymore lol.   

Just going to add in my thoughts.



povidlo said:


> Soundstage is huge on both with great sense of space; Chaconne having a rounder presentation with more depth; CM2kTi is wider and airier. This part is a bit hard to explain but I’ll try: although Chaconne’s vocals sound less prominent in the mix overall, they are somewhat more lifted from the other sounds than with CM2kTi whereas vocals sound more prominent but less holographic.


The Chaconne has that holographic sound because its soundstage is deep. If a transducer only has width (or if the width is a lot wider than the depth) then it wont sound very holographic.




povidlo said:


> Same applies to male vocals except they could at times sound a slight bit more higher-pitch that usual (feminine?). This is where CM2kTi takes the crown with meatier, weightier, more authoritative male vocals; while females sound really, really good still.


Thats the tonality, it is missing some warmth and thickness to make male vocals on par with the female vocals. It is quite typical of buds to be like that though...




povidlo said:


> Although Chaconne is warmer, it’s warmth is at low level comparing to something like Toneking Viridis


IMO the Viridis is a lot brighter to me than the Chaconne.


----------



## Dany1 (May 6, 2021)

1clearhead said:


> MEMT T5 are great semi-open buds, a must have! And, for around $30 dollars the JCALLY EP09 are just amazing in their own right! Resolution is downright gorgeous!
> 
> -Clear


JCally EP09 looks really tempting. Kinda out of my budget for an earbud. But here's what i can do. Instead of buying the Yincrow X6 and Cat Audio Mimi, i can just buy 1 Jcally EP09. Do you think it's really worth getting the EP09 over those two ?

Edit: Oh and what about the EP08 ? It costs nearly 10$ less than EP09. I was wondering if you or anyone has heard both models and can share their thoughts on these.


----------



## 1clearhead (May 6, 2021)

Dany1 said:


> JCally EP09 looks really tempting. Kinda out of my budget for an earbud. But here's what i can do. Instead of buying the Yincrow X6 and Cat Audio Mimi, i can just buy 1 Jcally EP09. Do you think it's really worth getting the EP09 over those two ?
> 
> Edit: Oh and what about the EP08 ? It costs nearly 10$ less than EP09. I was wondering if you or anyone has heard both models and can share their thoughts on these.


Personally, I am sold on the EP09! The EP09 is their flagship model, plus it has beryllium coated drivers. The resolution is clearly better when compared to most of my other buds. The ANN N200 comes close. But, I don't have the EP08 and now I'm tempted to get them just to compare them both. Though, I think is a step back, since they are just titanium membrane drivers (without beryllium coating).

PS. I will try to order the EP08 on taobao today to compare.

-Clear


----------



## Dany1

1clearhead said:


> Personally, I am sold on the EP09! The EP09 is their flagship model, plus it has beryllium coated drivers. The resolution is clearly better when compared to most of my other buds. The ANN N200 comes the close. But, I don't have the EP08 and now I'm tempted to get them just to compare them both. Though, I think is a step back, since they are just titanium membrane drivers (without beryllium coating).
> 
> PS. I will try to order the EP08 on taobao today to compare.
> 
> -Clear


Great Thanks! I saw your impressions on the EP09 a pages back. The build quality and cable looks nice on these and I'm really tempted to hear these myself now. I think i will definitely order these now. Before founding this, i was looking towards the Yincrow X6 and Faael Rosemary.


----------



## jogawag

Dany1 said:


> Great Thanks! I saw your impressions on the EP09 a pages back. The build quality and cable looks nice on these and I'm really tempted to hear these myself now. I think i will definitely order these now. Before founding this, i was looking towards the Yincrow X6 and Faael Rosemary.


IMO, if you want to save money, you should buy a DIY Vido (white) instead of the Yincrow X6.
The Yincrow X6 is a more expensive version of the Vido, they use the same drivers and the sound is almost the same.


----------



## 1clearhead

Dany1 said:


> Great Thanks! I saw your impressions on the EP09 a pages back. The build quality and cable looks nice on these and I'm really tempted to hear these myself now. I think i will definitely order these now. Before founding this, i was looking towards the Yincrow X6 and Faael Rosemary.


I also like my Yincrow X6 and RW-9, but I spend more enjoyable time with the EP09's clear resolution tuning.


----------



## Dany1

jogawag said:


> IMO, if you want to save money, you should buy a DIY Vido (white) instead of the Yincrow X6.
> The Yincrow X6 is a more expensive version of the Vido, they use the same drivers and the sound is almost the same.


I already own 7 earbuds. Faael Iris 2.0, Lotus 1.0, NiceHck Vido, Traceless, Fengru Emx500, TC200, Kbear Stellar.

Personally, i think the Vido's are great. But they are not outstanding among my collection. I find the Nicehck Traceless and Fengru Mx500 more enjoyable than vido.

The only must have earbuds missing on my list were the Yincrows X6, Faael Rosemary and Cat Ear Mimi. But I'll skip these 3 and just go for the more premium experience with the EP09.


----------



## povidlo

furyossa said:


> Thanks for this mini-comparison. What can you say about comfort?


I get better comfort with CM2000Ti: lighter weight, with flatter/smaller head. 

Between titanium housing, cord protection extension, and brass hat- Chaconne is relatively heavy. I can feel pressure of weight after a while since it's worn cable down. Head is rounder and and a bit deeper. I like to angle my buds at ~135 degree angle- having a head that's less flat and protrudes deeper puts additional pressure on my tragus. It also makes it more challenging to keep that angle in place.


----------



## 1clearhead (May 6, 2021)

Dany1 said:


> I already own 7 earbuds. Faael Iris 2.0, Lotus 1.0, NiceHck Vido, Traceless, Fengru Emx500, TC200, Kbear Stellar.
> 
> Personally, i think the Vido's are great. But they are not outstanding among my collection. I find the Nicehck Traceless and Fengru Mx500 more enjoyable than vido.
> 
> The only must have earbuds missing on my list were the Yincrows X6, Faael Rosemary and Cat Ear Mimi. But I'll skip these 3 and just go for the more premium experience with the EP09.


Yea, ever since I put on the earbud sponge covers on my EP09, I've been enjoying and listening to my music library all over again. 

PS. I would never understand why they're priced so low compared to many other not so premium buds. I personally think they put more effort into quality for a reasonable price for the budget consumer, IMHO. Though, if you can somehow buy the ANN N200, they make for a good sidekick listening experience. But, if I were you, I would also add the X6 and RW-9 to your list. The bass is really nice.

-Clear


----------



## Serge Bernamej (May 6, 2021)

povidlo said:


> Folks, check out my mini-comparison review of Audio-Technica ATH-CM2000Ti and Moondrop Chaconne:
> 
> With Chaconne, I confidently ordered them from China after reading many positives reviews saying they’re TOTL. With CM2kTi, they have a lot of mixed reviews but I was luckily able to order it directly from Amazon so I basically had a free 30-day trial (after which I decided to keep them). It’s a very unique model because it’s the latest (and probably the last) premium earbud made by a major traditional Japanese or German manufacturer. And in my opinion they are easily on the level with Chaconne, just a somewhat (not too much) different sound signature.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this. The Audio technica I had to return it as I found the bass VERY withdrawn.

Just recieved the Yinman 600, AND WAW !
What a tone beauty ! Very smooth detailed but relaxing sound.
(still sounds a bit too “tiny” to my taste though).


wskl said:


> I think we may share similar taste on how classical music should be heard so I will pay extra attention to your posts in the future.  I see many comments from people who would recommend a neutral sounding earphone for classical but it doesn't always sound right to my ears.  Of course it does come down to a matter of taste and I do prefer some extra warmth and slightly thicker mids.
> 
> I do find that "some" modern recordings have a thinness about them which I do not like at all and they can sound edgy or metallic.  And for older recordings from the analogue era, they have a nice warmth but a resolving earbud can easily expose the flaws in the recording which is also not good.
> 
> Personally I have no problem using a warm earbud with classical, it may not be accurate or true to the recording but for certain situations it can make the music most enjoyable, e.g. for chamber music, I like the extra richness it brings to the cello.


Classical music, by the way it’s recorded, by the way it’s mastered (way less compressed) and by its very dynamic and tonal nature can sound thin on many headphones earbuds that are on the “analytical“ side.
Baroque music is the only style/era that can more or less escape this danger. As it has the “obligato” bass line which gives more body to music.
So the whole problem for us is having separation, clarity and imaging without bass blooming headphones.
This is why my favorite headphones are....AUDEZE (LCD3) !!! Hahahahah. Which is the absolute opposite of an earbud in terms of comfort.
But no headphones will give you better cello sound and expression than Audeze.
In my recent and limited earbud escapade, I have liked a few earbuds (Yincrow 2000 double foamed, Yinman 600, em5 doubled foamed, Rosemary) but I still have to give my number choice to the Zen which is really the best tonally. Warm, yes, but the timbre is so right, and the sound is full.
In classical music, tone/timbre is as important as imaging and separation.
But my journey is just beginning.


----------



## Dany1

1clearhead said:


> Yea, ever since I put on the earbud sponge covers on my EP09, I've been enjoying and listening to my music library all over again.
> 
> PS. I would never understand why they're priced so low compared to many other not so premium buds. I personally think they put more effort into quality for a reasonable price for the budget consumer, IMHO. Though, if you can somehow buy the ANN N200, they make for a good sidekick listening experience. But, if I were you, I would also add the X6 and RW-9 to your list. The bass is really nice.
> 
> -Clear


They are probably trying to make a name for themselves in this saturated market and capture a market share. Anyway, that's good for us consumers. We are getting something great at a affordable price.  Btw i have placed order for the EP09 this morning. It will be really exciting for me to compare them to all my other earbuds. I will share my impressions on these when i receive them. But for now, i'll have to wait patiently for a month to receive them lol. 

Yes, I will probably buy the Yincrow X6 and the other popular budget earbuds later anyway. I just love how majority of the great sounding earbuds we see in the market are at such a affordable price. Which makes it easier for us enthusiasts to buy them without going wild on our wallet. 

I feel so stupid for overlooking the earbuds market for so long. I had no idea earbuds could sound so amazing and i'm so glad that i'm finally exploring them and it's all Thanks to this wonderful community of Audio enthusiasts from around the world on a great platform such as Head-Fi. Cheers to you guys!


----------



## renatopdalencar

Hello there! I would like to ask for suggestions on earbuds. I mostly listen to pop, k-pop, hip-hop and rap, so I enjoy good bass, and a warm but detailed signature. I will use it with my OnePlus 5T phone, and my current budget is up to $60. Thank you in advance!


----------



## Sam L

assassin10000 said:


> Sounds like you need silicone rings like these under your foams:



ah, nice thinking there, but then not surprised at all... since there are a good number of new-ish posters on this thread, @assassin10000 is our resident earbud mod'er, even going so far as to frickin' cannibalize tws sets to connect earbud drivers to them!

I was more thinking that the larger size included a larger driver, but now I realize that there might be the same size driver and just a different size shell? no matter, no gripes with my purchase only I'm still almost always listening to my dan clark aeon 2's.     I'll be returning to earbuds soon, I promise!


----------



## Sam L

renatopdalencar said:


> Hello there! I would like to ask for suggestions on earbuds. I mostly listen to pop, k-pop, hip-hop and rap, so I enjoy good bass, and a warm but detailed signature. I will use it with my OnePlus 5T phone, and my current budget is up to $60. Thank you in advance!


datura pro, download wavelet, load up my wavelet settings, enjoy the best $25 you have ever spent in audiophile equipment. have to go, but when i'm back on, I'll try to hunt down the posts.


----------



## Sam L

wskl said:


> I think we may share similar taste on how classical music should be heard so I will pay extra attention to your posts in the future.  I see many comments from people who would recommend a neutral sounding earphone for classical but it doesn't always sound right to my ears.  Of course it does come down to a matter of taste and I do prefer some extra warmth and slightly thicker mids.
> 
> I do find that "some" modern recordings have a thinness about them which I do not like at all and they can sound edgy or metallic.  And for older recordings from the analogue era, they have a nice warmth but a resolving earbud can easily expose the flaws in the recording which is also not good.
> 
> Personally I have no problem using a warm earbud with classical, it may not be accurate or true to the recording but for certain situations it can make the music most enjoyable, e.g. for chamber music, I like the extra richness it brings to the cello.


fully agree. some modern recordings have awesome detail and fidelity but sound lifeless at times compared to some of my older recordings, Oistrakh's tchaikovsky (any of the 12 versions he recorded), for example. Earbuds and Oistrakh = heaven


----------



## renatopdalencar

Sam L said:


> datura pro, download wavelet, load up my wavelet settings, enjoy the best $25 you have ever spent in audiophile equipment. have to go, but when i'm back on, I'll try to hunt down the posts.


I didn't take the Datura Pro into consideration because of it being categorized as mid- centric. But if you say so, I will try with wavelet. Thank you very much.


----------



## 1clearhead

Well? I just found out that the JCALLY EP08 only sells outside of China to foreign countries. So, I don't know if I can ever get one here in China where the company actually makes them at. Go figure! 

But, outside of China anyone can buy both the EP09 and the EP08.  ...Not fair!

-Clear


----------



## cappuchino

1clearhead said:


> Well? I just found out that the JCALLY EP08 only sells outside of China to foreign countries. So, I don't know if I can ever get one here in China where the company actually makes them at. Go figure!
> 
> But, outside of China anyone can buy both the EP09 and the EP08.  ...Not fair!
> 
> -Clear


I might just buy the EP08 if my finger lying on the buy now button can't be stopped 😂 It's around 16 USD base price, but I think I can get it down to ~13 with coins and vouchers (Shopee). Though I am afraid as @furyossa saw the pics and his analysis of the shell used and the impedance and sensitivity aren't positive.

I'm currently on the market as well for a MMCX earbud sub-30.


----------



## baskingshark

1clearhead said:


> Well? I just found out that the JCALLY EP08 only sells outside of China to foreign countries. So, I don't know if I can ever get one here in China where the company actually makes them at. Go figure!
> 
> But, outside of China anyone can buy both the EP09 and the EP08.  ...Not fair!
> 
> -Clear



The good thing is u can get stuff cheaper in china for made in china gear (which majority of IEMs and earbuds are nowadays). I realize in general Taobao gear is cheaper than Aliexpress for the same audio gear. They usually jack up the prices for international customers. Not to mention there's delays in shipping outside china, and if u do need to get warranty/customer service, it is a pain to ship stuff back to china.


----------



## Sam L

renatopdalencar said:


> I didn't take the Datura Pro into consideration because of it being categorized as mid- centric. But if you say so, I will try with wavelet. Thank you very much.


more info in this post.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3504#post-16199583


----------



## renatopdalencar

I'm sold. Datura Pro, here I go. Thanks!


----------



## renatopdalencar

Sam L said:


> more info in this post.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3504#post-16199583


I'm sold. Datura Pro, here I go!


----------



## 1clearhead

baskingshark said:


> The good thing is u can get stuff cheaper in china for made in china gear (which majority of IEMs and earbuds are nowadays). I realize in general Taobao gear is cheaper than Aliexpress for the same audio gear. They usually jack up the prices for international customers. Not to mention there's delays in shipping outside china, and if u do need to get warranty/customer service, it is a pain to ship stuff back to china.


True...I guess there's a fine line to draw here. There's also a lot of products China rather sell to foreigners then to locals here in China. Several years ago, my good friend 'Slater' was able to get a seller from Aliexpress to send me the KZ ZS7, since they were not available for the Chinese consumer to buy in China. So, what are the sellers thinking when they do this? One would never know.

...by the way, where's 'Slater'? Does anyone know?


----------



## baskingshark (May 7, 2021)

1clearhead said:


> True...I guess there's a fine line to draw here. There's also a lot of products China rather sell to foreigners then to locals here in China. Several years ago, my good friend 'Slater' was able to get a seller from Aliexpress to send me the KZ ZS7, since they were not available for the Chinese consumer to buy in China. So, what are the sellers thinking when they do this? One would never know.
> 
> ...by the way, where's 'Slater'? Does anyone know?



I last spoke to Slater in january, I think he was very busy with work. Big pity we don't have his experience here for a few months, I've learnt a lot from him.




As for China sales versus international market. I know some CHIFI companies have different prices for their local and international market for the same IEM (as seen in taobao vs aliexpress prices). They can even vary by 50% in prices!!

Which brings me to this story, I visited China a few times in the past and I visited a famous xiao long bao shop (chinese steam bun) about 10 years ago. This shop had a few levels. So the first level is for foreigners, the shopkeeper sees you look non local and they invite you to sit there - price of 1 xiao long bao is $1 USD. I noticed the locals climbing up the stairs to the higher floors -> Lo and behold I went up to explore and the same xiao long bao is sold at $0.20 USD per piece to the locals!!! This is the same shop by the way haha.


Anyways, from speaking to a few manufacturer reps, the local Chinese market seems to prefer boosted upper mids/treble to complement their music, which features a lot of female vocals. They even have a term for it: musical poison 毒音. Perhaps the international market and westerners don't really like this boosted higher frequencies, and prefer something not so shouty. So some sellers were telling me BLON BL-03 (which a lot of westerners like for tonality and timbre) is very unpopular in China!! So the manufacturers tune and sell audio gear differently to cater to their market, but at the end of the day, I think the local Chinese market is still larger than the western CHIFI hardcore fans. We are talking about a 1.3 billion China local market, versus I dunno, maybe a few thousand CHIFI western fans? If I were a CHIFI company, I would for sure go for the bigger market.


----------



## gazzington

I received my blur buds yesterday (blur 266 400ohm 4.4) and I am blown away by them.  Ive been using them with a cayin n6ii/a02/c9 and I can't stop listening.  They sound like open headphones full of detail but also very naturally tuned.  Highly reced.  I spoke to Master Wong and he is currently working on a mx300ohm, and I'll def be checking it out


----------



## 1clearhead

baskingshark said:


> *I last spoke to Slater in january, I think he was very busy with work.* Big pity we don't have his experience here for a few months, I've learnt a lot from him.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I really hope 'Slater' is doing okay. He is the master of small details and fixer-uppers on many IEM's, detachable cables, and ear tips!

-Clear


----------



## jeejack

gazzington said:


> I received my blur buds yesterday (blur 266 400ohm 4.4) and I am blown away by them.  Ive been using them with a cayin n6ii/a02/c9 and I can't stop listening.  They sound like open headphones full of detail but also very naturally tuned.  Highly reced.  I spoke to Master Wong and he is currently working on a mx300ohm, and I'll def be checking it out


400 ohm and 130ohm beryllium are awesome drivers. From my experience 300 ohm drivers are very hard to tune. Will have some work to do with them


----------



## jogawag (May 7, 2021)

I recently got the K's earphone *LBBS*.
I love the compact shell, sufficient bass, and natural clear mid-treble.
Can anyone tell me "how" the sound of the higher version *Onmyoji* is better than this LBBS?
I'm really interested in that.

Thanks in advance!

Edit:
I found a link to the solution. Thanks @uneri.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16181901
https://post.smzdm.com/p/a830k83l/


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 7, 2021)

gazzington said:


> I received my blur buds yesterday (blur 266 400ohm 4.4) and I am blown away by them.  Ive been using them with a cayin n6ii/a02/c9 and I can't stop listening.  They sound like open headphones full of detail but also very naturally tuned.  Highly reced.  I spoke to Master Wong and he is currently working on a mx300ohm, and I'll def be checking it out


Awesome; enjoy! Yes, he is re-releasing his popular 2018 300Ω model the Beautiful Witch 美魔女. I have a custom tuned version of this model from 2018 and enjoy it very much. He is master tuner and definitely takes his time to match the drivers.


----------



## cappuchino (May 7, 2021)

A surprise release from FAAEAL?

2.80 USD FAAEAL IRIS ANCESTOR










https://shopee.ph/product/64655310/8952477541?smtt=0.174314985-1620396170.9


----------



## Sam L (May 7, 2021)

cappuchino said:


> A surprise release from FAAEAL?
> 
> 2.80 USD FAAEAL IRIS ANCESTOR
> 
> ...


not a bad curve but looks like a more ideal presentation can be had with a simple 1k -20db low shelf. I'll pick one up if it's on aliexpress!


----------



## gazzington

WoodyLuvr said:


> Awesome; enjoy! Yes, he is re-releasing his popular 2018 300Ω model the Beautiful Witch 美魔女. I have a custom tuned version of this model from 2018 and enjoy it very much. He is master tuner and definitely takes his time to match the drivers.


Yeah he definitely takes a lot of time and care. I’ve been mainly buying iems over the past few years but he’s got me back in the earbuds hobby after buying these. Total iems cost a fortune compared to total earbuds


----------



## Serge Bernamej (May 7, 2021)

Pardon the low effort posting, but the Zen black (although a disaster in cable stiffness and microphonics) has more body than the Fiio em5.
Can you guys tell me if the Sun Dice and Copper keep the same “full bodied” sound?
Or with more resolution comes “thinness”?


----------



## 40760 (May 7, 2021)

Serge Bernamej said:


> Pardon the low effort posting, but the Zen black (although a disaster in cable stiffness and microphonics) completely destroys, nukes and exterminate the Fiio em5.
> Can you guys tell me if the Sun Dice and Copper keep the same “full bodied” sound?
> Or with more resolution comes “thinness”?



That will be a "No". Not even the Copper.

If you can overlook the stiff black cables, the Zen Black is quite a gem.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

palestofwhite said:


> That will be a "No". Not even the Copper.


Just to be 100% clear, no it’s not thin or no does not have the same full bodied sound?


----------



## 40760 (May 7, 2021)

Serge Bernamej said:


> Just to be 100% clear, no it’s not thin or no does not have the same full bodied sound?



Both Sun do not have the good old thick warm sound of the Zen 2.0 or Black. I'm not sure about the Zen SU though.


----------



## Lillie

Serge Bernamej said:


> Pardon the low effort posting, but the Zen black (although a disaster in cable stiffness and microphonics) has more body than the Fiio em5.
> Can you guys tell me if the Sun Dice and Copper keep the same “full bodied” sound?
> Or with more resolution comes “thinness”?


How are you finding the Fiio em5?


----------



## Serge Bernamej (May 7, 2021)

Lillie said:


> How are you finding the Fiio em5?


Technically apt. Very strange tuning. Bass is nohting like Yinman or Zen Black can do, not even close, but not the end of the world.
To be fair, the bass is tight, but in earbud world, we need somewhat of a boost. The strange thing is in the upper mids or treble where it sounds tiny and distant and bright at the same time.
Now I'm trying double foam + tea bag paper, it does add warmth, obviously. But the tone of some upper mids is still nasal and shouty (even if the edge is gone), and I hate this.
I need to spend more time with the earbud, I have 3 or 4 hours on it.
The earbud itself is the best looking and the cable is smooth.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Serge Bernamej said:


> Pardon the low effort posting, but the Zen black (although a disaster in cable stiffness and microphonics) has more body than the Fiio em5.
> Can you guys tell me if the Sun Dice and Copper keep the same “full bodied” sound?
> Or with more resolution comes “thinness”?


Usually, more resolution/detail is easier to achieve with a brighter and thinner tonality. By boosting the treble a lot and lowering the bass, makes you perceive a lot more detail, but this is what some people call "fake details". 




Serge Bernamej said:


> Technically apt. Very strange tuning. Bass is nohting like Yinman or Zen Black can do, not even close, but not the end of the world.


Do you mean that the EM5 has better bass than those 2? Or you mean those 2 outclass the EM5?


----------



## Serge Bernamej

RikudouGoku said:


> Usually, more resolution/detail is easier to achieve with a brighter and thinner tonality. By boosting the treble a lot and lowering the bass, makes you perceive a lot more detail, but this is what some people call "fake details".
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean that the EM5 has better bass than those 2? Or you mean those 2 outclass the EM5?


Yes I agree with the fake details theory. Which is why the Zen is the king. It's not that it has less resolution, it's just well tuned. 
I meant that EM5 does NOT have better bass than Yinman and Zen (black). But it's a bit subjective because the Yinman is obviously a bit boosted, which is the case of the standard Zen too.


----------



## Serge Bernamej (May 7, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Usually, more resolution/detail is easier to achieve with a brighter and thinner tonality. By boosting the treble a lot and lowering the bass, makes you perceive a lot more detail, but this is what some people call "fake details".
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean that the EM5 has better bass than those 2? Or you mean those 2 outclass the EM5?


Just out of curiousity, I put an apple pod just after the EM5, and OMG, the apple sounded like some broken toy. I put the Fiio back and it sounded fully detailed rich warm full etc...

I already put the EM5 to sell, but I may change my mind and keep it.

I'm realizing that the more I get into the earbud world the more I get used to their magic and higher my expactations to a degree that could get dangerously unrealistic.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Serge Bernamej said:


> Just out of curiousity, I put an apple pod just after the EM5, and OMG, the apple sounded like some broken toy. I put the Fiio back and it sounded fully detailed rich warm full etc...
> 
> I already put the EM5 to sell, but I may change my mind and keep it.


lol, you can go ahead and test out the "fake details theory" by using a PEQ and removing like 5 db from the bass using a low-shelf band at 250hz and then also boost the treble by 5  db with a high-shelf band at 3000hz.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

RikudouGoku said:


> lol, you can go ahead and test out the "fake details theory" by using a PEQ and removing like 5 db from the bass using a low-shelf band at 250hz and then also boost the treble by 5  db with a high-shelf band at 3000hz.


hahaah of course ! In the headphone world there are the usual suspects: Beyerdynamic, Sennheiser HD800 (although it has REAL details and a bright sound), Fostex th900, etc...
And there are the masters of details and perfect tone: Audeze LCD3.


----------



## Townyj (May 7, 2021)

.. *removed for now*


----------



## waynes world

Serge Bernamej said:


> *Pardon the low effort posting,* but the Zen black (although a disaster in cable stiffness and microphonics) has more body than the Fiio em5.
> Can you guys tell me if the Sun Dice and Copper keep the same “full bodied” sound?
> Or with more resolution comes “thinness”?



Is there any other kind?


----------



## Sam L

Serge Bernamej said:


> Just out of curiousity, I put an apple pod just after the EM5, and OMG, the apple sounded like some broken toy. I put the Fiio back and it sounded fully detailed rich warm full etc...
> 
> I already put the EM5 to sell, but I may change my mind and keep it.
> 
> I'm realizing that the more I get into the earbud world the more I get used to their magic and higher my expactations to a degree that could get dangerously unrealistic.



I'd hold off on selling the em5 until you put it through 200 hours of burn in. I was not very impressed with mine either, though I did think they sounded "better"-ish than my cheaper earbuds initially. I'm not a proponent of burn-in but I think the large bery driver in the em5 needs the burn-in. the em5 is definitely not a bass monster. my maria II puts out much more bass, but the quality of bass on the em5 is extraordinary.

What type of music do you typically listen to?


----------



## Serge Bernamej (May 7, 2021)

Sam L said:


> I'd hold off on selling the em5 until you put it through 200 hours of burn in. I was not very impressed with mine either, though I did think they sounded "better"-ish than my cheaper earbuds initially. I'm not a proponent of burn-in but I think the large bery driver in the em5 needs the burn-in. the em5 is definitely not a bass monster. my maria II puts out much more bass, but the quality of bass on the em5 is extraordinary.
> 
> What type of music do you typically listen to?


Thank you very much for this advice. Especially since you're not a burn in apostle and that the EM5 would be hard to sell. I will hold on to it. I only listen to classical music from Renaissance (vocal) to Modern (Bartok ,Shostakovich). I don't listen to pop, rap, folk or jazz. I just have way too many classical albums. So: Voice, opera, choral, Chamber, Piano, concertos and symphonies.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

waynes world said:


> Is there any other kind?


What do you mean ?


----------



## waynes world

Serge Bernamej said:


> What do you mean ?



Just messing around! I mean that I only know how to do posts of the "low effort" variety lol.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

waynes world said:


> Just messing around! I mean that I only know how to do posts of the "low effort" variety lol.


Haha sorry my bad I physically missed the *bold *you used in the quote.


----------



## rkw

Sam L said:


> the em5 is definitely not a bass monster. my maria II puts out much more bass, but the quality of bass on the em5 is extraordinary.


How do you feel overall about the EM5 vs Maria II? I have the older Rose Mojito and like it very much except that the size is large for my ear, and I'm considering the smaller Maria II. EM5 has the best bass I've heard from an earbud, but its treble has some sizzle that I'm sensitive to, and I ended up selling it.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

rkw said:


> How do you feel overall about the EM5 vs Maria II? I have the older Rose Mojito and like it very much except that the size is large for my ear, and I'm considering the smaller Maria II. EM5 has the best bass I've heard from an earbud, but its treble has some sizzle that I'm sensitive to, and I ended up selling it.


Did you try double foaming it ?


----------



## rkw

Serge Bernamej said:


> Did you try double foaming it ?


Yes I did. I require a smooth non-fatiguing treble, but it isn't the character of the EM5. I loved the bass and wanted it to work out, but long burn-in and foam variations didn't change it enough for me.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

rkw said:


> Yes I did. I require a smooth non-fatiguing treble, but it isn't the character of the EM5. I loved the bass and wanted it to work out, but long burn-in and foam variations didn't change it enough for me.


Yes I see. I really don't want to open this can of worms but I always wondered: if burn-in is real, let's say you stop using the device for some time (weeks? months?), logically, wouldn't it require a whole new "burn in" again ?
I mean it's not like a loss of virginity here, a sort of deflowering, or is it ?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Serge Bernamej said:


> Yes I see. I really don't want to open this can of worms but I always wondered: if burn-in is real, let's say you stop using the device for some time (weeks? months?), logically, wouldn't it require a whole new "burn in" again ?
> I mean it's not like a loss of virginity here, a sort of deflowering, or is it ?


There are 2 camps when it comes to burn in.

1. Physical burn-in, this is what most people/brands want you to believe in. AKA, "real" burn in and you wont need to burn it in again later. (maybe you noticed how some brands are claiming you need 100-200 hours of burn-in. Its more like a way for you to run out of warranty time to return it if you dont like it lol.)

2. Brain burn-in, AKA getting used to the sound of the particular transducer and IMO is what is really happening when people claim stuff needs to burn in.


----------



## rkw

Serge Bernamej said:


> I really don't want to open this can of worms but I always wondered: if burn-in is real


Haha, I specifically mentioned burn-in to preempt being asked whether I'd done it .  I'm ambivalent about whether it is a real thing, but in fact I did burn-in for many many hours to eliminate the possibility that it might make the difference between keeping the EM5 or not.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

When I'm in desperate situations, I don't belittle placebo effects. Whether it's for some chronic physical pain, or sound signature purposes. I'm open to alternative medecine and alternative modding (burn-in).
Let reality decide instead of the concept.


----------



## waynes world

RikudouGoku said:


> There are 2 camps when it comes to burn in.
> 
> 1. Physical burn-in, this is what most people/brands want you to believe in. AKA, "real" burn in and you wont need to burn it in again later. (maybe you noticed how some brands are claiming you need 100-200 hours of burn-in. Its more like a way for you to run out of warranty time to return it if you dont like it lol.)
> 
> 2. Brain burn-in, AKA getting used to the sound of the particular transducer and IMO is what is really happening when people claim stuff needs to burn in.



I definitely believe in brain burn in (happens to me every time I listen to new gear).. But I also believe in physical burn in for some gear. My Nighthawks seemed a bit boomy in the bass to me at times when I first got them, so I switched to different pads that noticabely and instantly changed the sound (no brain burn in required to notice the difference). I listened to them for quite a while with the alternate pads (ie hundreds of hours) and then decided to try out the original pads again. The boomy bassiness was  now gone with the original pads. That made me a "physical burn in exists for some gear" believer. I'm not sure I've noticied is so much with earbuds though.


----------



## RikudouGoku

waynes world said:


> I definitely believe in brain burn in (happens to me every time I listen to new gear).. But I also believe in physical burn in for some gear. My Nighthawks seemed a bit boomy in the bass to me at times when I first got them, so I switched to different pads that noticabely and instantly changed the sound (no brain burn in required to notice the difference). I listened to them for quite a while with the alternate pads (ie hundreds of hours) and then decided to try out the original pads again. The boomy bassiness was  now gone with the original pads. That made me a "physical burn in exists for some gear" believer. I'm not sure I've noticied is so much with earbuds though.


IMO, thats because you got accustomed to the slower/looser bass on it so when you went back, it wasnt as slow/loos as you remember (then again, our audio memory is extremely short anyway...).


----------



## siderak

I have the simphonio dragon 2+. I think they sound pretty great but I've been interested in the em5 and also the rw-2000 with all the latest discussions. 
Does anyone know how they stack up to the sd2+?


----------



## Сomrade

Burnout works - there is a process of physical lapping of moving parts (20 hours of favorite music (micro burrs are removed).
Thanks to this, the sound changes.
Wire burnout-does not exist.


----------



## povidlo

FAAEAL just released a new model of Iris called Ancestor.

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNBkeD7


----------



## DivineCurrent

I got some earbuds on the way: Sennheiser MX375, VE Monk Lite, and also the VE Zen 2.0. I’m looking forward to seeing which I prefer (better be the Zen, lol). I haven’t focused much on earbuds really, currently using the Monks for casual listening and lightweight comfort watching youtube videos.


----------



## cappuchino

Anyone still have the Yinman 150? It's available on Shopee for roughly 8.40 USD after coins and vouchers. 

What's the sound signature? How about technicalities?

I'll be driving it with the Earstudio HUD100 MK2.


----------



## cappuchino (May 8, 2021)

cappuchino said:


> Anyone still have the Yinman 150? It's available on Shopee for roughly 8.40 USD after coins and vouchers.
> 
> What's the sound signature? How about technicalities?
> 
> I'll be driving it with the Earstudio HUD100 MK2.


Nevermind this. Can't stop myself to buy my first high impedance buds 🤣





YINMAN 150 for 7 USD.


----------



## Penon

*SHOZY Cygnus is now restocked *

https://penonaudio.com/shozy-cygnus.html


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 8, 2021)

Penon said:


> *SHOZY Cygnus is now restocked *
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/shozy-cygnus.html


What a blast from the past! The original was released c2016 @ 18Ω. Wonder how different Cygnus II will sound now using a 32Ω driver?


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> What a blast from the past! The original was released c2016 @ 18Ω. Wonder how different Cygnus II will sound now using a 32Ω driver?


Probably 14Ω better   
Joke aside, all Shozy models with PK shells will always look beautiful, regardless of age


----------



## 40760

Too bad Cygnus cable oxidise very quickly…


----------



## chinmie

fully oxidized cable looks pretty good though, if you like green


----------



## furyossa

palestofwhite said:


> Too bad Cygnus cable oxidise very quickly…


The first edition had white cables that were prone to oxidation. After that issue they changed the cables


----------



## furyossa

chinmie said:


> fully oxidized cable looks pretty good though, if you like green


Also, Gold - green is nice combo


----------



## MRSallee

HiFiGo sent a NiceHCK EBX21 for review.



*My thoughts on the EBX21:*

Really outstanding build quality; shells have a nice, smooth shape in what appears to be all-aluminum.
The cable is the best cloth-covered cable I've ever used. Looks handsome, isn't overly stiff, isn't memory prone. It is a tad microphonic still, but not a big deal for me.
The sound... I don't like. Tuning upper-mid-forward and kinda bright in the lower treble. That's a general description I could usually get behind, but EBX21 sounds nasally to me, with some crunchiness in the treble.

It's been a while since I reviewed an earbud, so I decided to refresh my palette by re-listening to every earbud in my collection (just 10). And because I was listening to them, I figured... might as well rank them. So here's my ranking of my personally-owned earbuds:



HE 150 Pro
Willsound Mk2
Apple AirPods
Yincrow X6
Yincrow RW-9
Apple EarPods
Koss KDE/250
VE Monk Plus
NiceHCK EBX21
Astrotec Lyra Nature


----------



## Alex.Grimm (May 8, 2021)

MRSallee said:


> HiFiGo sent a NiceHCK EBX21 for review.
> 
> HE 150 Pro
> Willsound Mk2
> ...


Lol, Astrotec Lyra Nature nice buds, it's a sin to put them so low. 3. AirPods what???


----------



## MRSallee

Alex.Grimm said:


> Lol, Astrotec Lyra Nature nice buds, it's a sin to put them so low. 3. AirPods what???


Just my opinion, but I found the Lyra Natures pretty rough. AirPods really not bad at all.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Before this thing goes to cloud of oblivion...
Sennheiser MX90VC, just tried it and it still sounds great, The design still makes sense even after 15 years of its release.


----------



## RikudouGoku

AmericanSpirit said:


> Before this thing goes to cloud of oblivion...
> Sennheiser MX90VC, just tried it and it still sounds great, The design still makes sense even after 15 years of its release.


Damn, interesting design.




What does that part do though?


----------



## Serge Bernamej

AmericanSpirit said:


> Before this thing goes to cloud of oblivion...
> Sennheiser MX90VC, just tried it and it still sounds great, The design still makes sense even after 15 years of its release.


Not on Ali !


----------



## AmericanSpirit (May 8, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Damn, interesting design.
> 
> 
> What does that part do though?


It hooked to your upper 👂 ←you see the dent? you twist it into the dent to rock the earbuds, Sennheiser’s good innovative attempt. Back then they were still the major powerhouse, the german design, with high fidelity sound.

poor thing for MX90VC is that Sennheiser forgot many users will be using on ipod which simply couldn’t tame this 64ohms monster back then, so the sound impressions stayed 4/5 stars. With proper dap, this thing still reigns on very high quality of earbud category sound..


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Serge Bernamej said:


> Not on Ali !


😂 it’s product of 2008, sorry man! Just to keep this bud to show up again on internet before everyone else forget it.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

AmericanSpirit said:


> 😂 it’s product of 2008, sorry man! Just to keep this bud to show up again on internet before everyone else forget it.


Damn !! I want it.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Serge Bernamej said:


> Damn !! I want it.


I still saw some reviews up till 2015, maybe there are some new stocks on somewhere on internet👍 Mine is totally exhausted, the cable is about to fall apart after my purchase back in 2007.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

AmericanSpirit said:


> I still saw some reviews up till 2015, maybe there are some new stocks on somewhere on internet👍 Mine is totally exhausted, the cable is about to fall apart after my purchase back in 2007.


One can always dream.
Imagine if the big boys decided to go all in on bud making...


----------



## AmericanSpirit (May 8, 2021)

I hope @Sennheiser to make a TWS with this MX90VC design, after years it’s still one of top-notch German Design. TWS falls when exercising, this design is perfect for a TWS(wink). No, I’m serious! This thing sounds better than Airpods Pro!


----------



## RikudouGoku

AmericanSpirit said:


> I hope @Sennheiser to make a TWS with this MX90VC design, after years it’s still one of top-notch German Design. TWS falls when exercising, this design is perfect for a TWS(wink). No, I’m serious! This thing sounds better than Airpods Pro!


That design would be wasted on a TWS lol.


----------



## furyossa

Serge Bernamej said:


> Not on Ali !


This model is probably only owned by collectors


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Damn, interesting design.
> 
> 
> What does that part do though?


The first attempt of ear wings  It looks like some radar. It would be cool to install a 6mm micro driver in this part


----------



## AmericanSpirit

RikudouGoku said:


> That design would be wasted on a TWS lol.


Well TWS has weakness of falling off the ear with rough movements during workouts, this twist rock system could be one of solution👍


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 9, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> Before this thing goes to cloud of oblivion...
> Sennheiser MX90VC, just tried it and it still sounds great, The design still makes sense even after 15 years of its release.


Yet another blast from the past!



RikudouGoku said:


> Damn, interesting design.
> 
> What does that part do though?


Sennheiser called this "Twist-to-Fit"; like so...







AmericanSpirit said:


> 😂 it’s product of 2008, sorry man! Just to keep this bud to show up again on internet before everyone else forget it.


The MX 90VC ("VC" indicating that this model came with volume control) was released early summer 2006 along with the MX 50 and MX 70... all had 64Ω drivers.

*Sennheiser 2006 "MX" Product Series*
_2006 - Sennheiser MX 50 (64Ω)_​_2006 - Sennheiser MX 70 (64Ω)_​_2006 - Sennheiser MX 90VC (64Ω)_​​*Sennheiser MX 90VC Specs*
Frequency Response: _18hz - 22000Hz_​Sensitivity (Max SPL): _117dB (1KHz/1Vrms)_​Impedance:_ 64Ω_​


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yet another blast from the past!
> 
> 
> Sennheiser called this "Twist-to-Fit"; like so...
> ...


Interesting concept for sure and I can say the same for the specification. The stem is too blocky, like on BT handsfree buds


----------



## profusion

I had this 10 years ago. The design was interesting, but these stuff hurt your ears 5min after you put them. It was disaster…


----------



## RikudouGoku

profusion said:


> I had this 10 years ago. The design was interesting, but these stuff hurt your ears 5min after you put them. It was disaster…


Guess the pros/cons with that design is that it either fits you well or it wont lol.


----------



## furyossa

profusion said:


> I had this 10 years ago. The design was interesting, but these stuff hurt your ears 5min after you put them. It was disaster…


Like I said it was just the first attempt. Today's solutions have a slightly more sophisticated and comfortable ear-hook, ear-fin or wing or ear-ring.
It’s not a perfect solution but it still does its job


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Guess the pros/cons with that design is that it either fits you well or it wont lol.


Exactly. Today we have a similar problem with some earbud designs, even when you just look at them, you have an uncomfortable feeling in your ear.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Seems to be the same store but everything is cheaper on the "niu" store.





Same "business information" paper on both stores.

Have anyone of you bought from this store before? 

Judging by aliprice, it doesnt seem like the bell-we ever goes on sale...


----------



## digititus

RikudouGoku said:


> Seems to be the same store but everything is cheaper on the "niu" store.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Try the CKLewis Audio Store.  They have them for $150


----------



## slex

RikudouGoku said:


> Seems to be the same store but everything is cheaper on the "niu" store.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I bought Laidys portable tube amp and MG2 amp. So far ok, abit slow response.They are more into DIY gears.


----------



## Memoryerror

digititus said:


> Try the CKLewis Audio Store.  They have them for $150


I would be leary of that store.


----------



## assassin10000

Memoryerror said:


> I would be leary of that store.


Any particular reason?

I've used them for diy parts with no issues.


----------



## Serge Bernamej (May 9, 2021)

Update on EM5 impression: After putting the bass foams and some random foams over them, going through a soft fin, I get a way fuller sound, smooth and perfectly comfy and fit. Kind of a more detailed and controlled Zen. But the sound sig is too different to compare. It's basically an EM5  with more body all over the frequency spectrum.
You would think it would lead to muddy sound and low resolution but it's absolutely not the case. On the contrary.


----------



## 40760

Serge Bernamej said:


> Update on EM5 impression: After putting the bass foams and some random foams over them, going through a soft fin, I get a way fuller sound, smooth and perfectly comfy and fit. Kind of a more detailed and controlled Zen. But the sound sig is too different to compare. It's basically an EM5  with more body all over the frequency spectrum.
> You would think it would lead to muddy sound and low resolution but it's absolutely not the case. On the contrary.


Have your other earbuds like the Zen LL arrived yet?


----------



## Serge Bernamej

palestofwhite said:


> Have your other earbuds like the Zen LL arrived yet?


Yes. I just tried it to make sure it works but cannot say anything on their sound yet. The cable is nice but can sometimes make weird crackling noises. Not a big deal but there’s no excuse.
The Zen black is great but the cable is absolutely disastrous because of its stiffness. How and why would they do that ?
Thank god for the strong ear fins.


----------



## 40760 (May 10, 2021)

Serge Bernamej said:


> Yes. I just tried it to make sure it works but cannot say anything on their sound yet. The cable is nice but can sometimes make weird crackling noises. Not a big deal but there’s no excuse.
> The Zen black is great but the cable is absolutely disastrous because of its stiffness. How and why would they do that ?
> Thank god for the strong ear fins.



"Crackling" noises might be from the cables rubbing on the inside of the shells around around the stem area. If it is actual sound crackling then it is a bad sign.
VE fixed this with the Sun series, where they use rubber stems to dampen the cable rubbing.

Zen Black I also could not deal with the stiff cable, so I traded it back to VE for some credits and after quite a few years later got this Zen Copper with some additional payment. I do like the original Oyaide plug that comes with the Zen Black though.

There is also a Zen White that costs a lot more and have a softer silver cable.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

palestofwhite said:


> "Crackling" noises might be from the cables rubbing on the inside of the shells around around the stem area. If it is actual sound crackling then it is a bad sign.
> VE fixed this with the Sun series, where they use rubber stems to dampen the cable rubbing.
> 
> Zen Black I also could not deal with the stiff cable, so I traded it back to VE for some credits and after quite a few years later got this Zen Copper with some additional payment. I do like the original Oyaide plug that comes with the Zen Black though.
> ...


Wow ! Zen white ! Did not know that !

About the crackling noise, it’s like you say, cables rubbing near the shell.
Should I send it back you think ?


----------



## 40760

Serge Bernamej said:


> Wow ! Zen white ! Did not know that !
> 
> About the crackling noise, it’s like you say, cables rubbing near the shell.
> Should I send it back you think ?



It is not exactly a defect but if it bothers you enough, you should try and send it back. I suspect even if you get another pair it might still have the same issue.

For the SL version I heard that VE had to put in more effort to fit the dual braid copper cable through the stem. I suspect it might fit just nicely inside and should avoid this problem.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

palestofwhite said:


> It is not exactly a defect but if it bothers you enough, you should try and send it back. I suspect even if you get another pair it might still have the same issue.
> 
> For the SL version I heard that VE had to put in more effort to fit the dual braid copper cable through the stem. I suspect it might fit just nicely inside and should avoid this problem.


Putting them on right now. Ok to be honest it’s really not the end of the world. Especially since i don’t move a lot with them. So all good.
Will get back to you with more impressions of them in the coming weeks.


----------



## 40760

Serge Bernamej said:


> Putting them on right now. Ok to be honest it’s really not the end of the world. Especially since i don’t move a lot with them. So all good.
> Will get back to you with more impressions of them in the coming weeks.


Actually I'm very interested in your assessment of the K's Bell-Ti 120ohms.


----------



## RikudouGoku

assassin10000 said:


> Any particular reason?
> 
> I've used them for diy parts with no issues.


I believe @baskingshark had some problems with them before....


As for the huo store, the only reason I want more info if they are legit or not is because they are mostly selling DIY stuff. Like, how easy wouldnt it be for them to sell their own DIY versions of the K buds, the Samsara for example is just an MX500 shell, it should be quite easy for them to just make their own MX500 bud and call it the "samsara"....

I hope I am being paranoid here....


----------



## 1Q84

Just a quick question guys, are the foams included with the monk plus the thin ones? Got some of the thin ones from the VE ex-pack and I quite like them, though I don't care much for the normal and donuts foams, so maybe it's better to just get a monk plus for the extra thin foams? If someone can confirm they come with thin foams. Thanks!


----------



## Serge Bernamej

palestofwhite said:


> Actually I'm very interested in your assessment of the K's Bell-Ti 120ohms.


Those are far from delivered yet. They better be good because they’re also the more expensive of the bunch


----------



## 40760

Serge Bernamej said:


> Those are far from delivered yet. They better be good because they’re also the more expensive of the bunch



I have they don't disappoint!


----------



## furyossa (May 10, 2021)

Serge Bernamej said:


> Those are far from delivered yet. They better be good because they’re also the more expensive of the bunch


Last night @assassin10000 tested and post graph here, for DIY 14.8mm 32Ω Titanium driver which is so damn close to be the king of DIY 14.8mm drivers (current king of DIY 14.8mm drivers is PK 150Ω "red film" driver which is originally made for Nokia HDD-1 buds). I mentioned this because most Ti drivers have great potential
K's is a well-known brand that in addition to its original design (current king of comfort) and the quality parts they use for their drivers, they are also good at tuning.
Anyway, Bell-Ti 120ohms model was one of their flagship models a few years ago. so I hope these beautiful buds will take an honorable place in your collection


----------



## RikudouGoku

Moondrop Chaconne review is up: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/moondrop-chaconne.24110/reviews#review-25837

Rank: S+

How this doesnt have any hype at all is beyond me. This is the sole reason why I am looking at other TOTL buds. Like the K Bell-WE and the Samsara K300.

I already gave the title of "Ultra Instinct" to the Dunu EST112, so I will give this the title of "Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta":





Vocal/acoustic music lovers will love this one, endgame worthy in those genres...


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Moondrop Chaconne review is up: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/moondrop-chaconne.24110/reviews#review-25837
> 
> Rank: S+
> 
> ...


So they justify the price?


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> So they justify the price?


Indeed they do. NR 1 transducer for acoustic/vocals isnt a small feat with my collection.   
(over 100 transducers.)


----------



## RikudouGoku

Another reason why I am so impressed by the Chaconne, is that this is pretty far from my preference target.




Thats my (WIP) preference target (iem graph), so as you might be able to tell, I sure love my bass (especially sub-bass). The Chaconne is pretty far from that and yet I still love it and actually like it more than the RW-2000 which is closer to my target.


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> Moondrop Chaconne review is up: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/moondrop-chaconne.24110/reviews#review-25837
> 
> Rank: S+
> 
> ...



Would have considered this set if there were detachable cables!


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Indeed they do. NR 1 transducer for acoustic/vocals isnt a small feat with my collection.
> (over 100 transducers.)


In the review you mentioned that they are not very comfortable for long sessions due to their weight
Build quality looks very good, the materials they used for overall build is HQ. 
The length of the stem is a problem, I know it plays a significant role in tuning and that by shortening it would reduce the low end even more.
A better design solution definitely needs to be found which would provide better comfort because it is unfortunate that such a gem cannot be use for long listening


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> In the review you mentioned that they are not very comfortable for long sessions due to their weight
> Build quality looks very good, the materials they used for overall build is HQ.
> The length of the stem is a problem, I know it plays a significant role in tuning and that by shortening it would reduce the low end even more.
> A better design solution definitely needs to be found which would provide better comfort because it is unfortunate that such a gem cannot be use for long listening


Yeah, technically it weights only a bit more than my average iems but it is more fatiguing than them for some reason...


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> In the review you mentioned that they are not very comfortable for long sessions due to their weight
> Build quality looks very good, the materials they used for overall build is HQ.
> The length of the stem is a problem, I know it plays a significant role in tuning and that by shortening it would reduce the low end even more.
> A better design solution definitely needs to be found which would provide better comfort because it is unfortunate that such a gem cannot be use for long listening


comfort, fit and being able to wear them for hours is essential for me.


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> comfort, fit and being able to wear them for hours is essential for me.


Every music lover expects that, but designers often neglect that. For cheaper models we can always forgive such an omission but when it comes to models of this caliber such as Chaconne then ... we need to say something about it


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Every music lover expects that, but designers often neglect that. For cheaper models we can always forgive such an omission but when it comes to models of this caliber such as Chaconne then ...


Fortunately for me, I dont really use a single transducer very long during sessions. I tend to switch transducers when I switch genres lol. And my session usually last between 1-2 hours anyway.


----------



## furyossa (May 10, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Fortunately for me, I dont really use a single transducer very long during sessions. I tend to switch transducers when I switch genres lol. And my session usually last between 1-2 hours anyway.


I’m not talking about you but about users who mostly buy models like this to enjoy the music ( especially for long listening sessions, 5-6 hours a day). You already have a ton of models so it would be weird to listen to music with just one pair for a long time


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> I’m not talking about you but about users who mostly buy models like this to enjoy the music ( especially for long listening sessions, 5-6 hours a day). You already have a ton of models so it would be weird to listen to music with just one couple for a long time


Haha, yeah indeed. My love needs to be shared in my harem.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Haha, yeah indeed. My love needs to be shared in my harem.


I know that feeling. It would be rude to ignore all those "gorgeous ladies" in harem


----------



## FranQL (May 10, 2021)

It is a spiral, if you have already achieved the comfort and the appropriate fit, you are looking for a better sound ... but some of the variants get lost in that way, so do not buy more models for now.

On the way there are good models but they fail at something, like little bell, dendroaspis (I'll switch to copper wire soon and keep trying), etc.

I achieved all the requirements with TO600, and with a simple 150 ohm DIY (this is a low-deficit pass but warm and pleasant), of the models that interest me, but I do not buy for:

EP09 setting

ZEN LL build quality

KBELL exorbitant price and fit.

Rosemary setting(but I will end up buying it anyway, there is little to lose, but I will wait for the 2.5mm version, which will return as indicated in the store).

And if possible, stop buying impulsively.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

furyossa said:


> Last night @assassin10000 tested and post graph here, for DIY 14.8mm 32Ω Titanium driver which is so damn close to be the king of DIY 14.8mm drivers (current king of DIY 14.8mm drivers is PK 150Ω "red film" driver which is originally made for Nokia HDD-1 buds). I mentioned this because most Ti drivers have great potential
> K's is a well-known brand that in addition to its original design (current king of comfort) and the quality parts they use for their drivers, they are also good at tuning.
> Anyway, Bell-Ti 120ohms model was one of their flagship models a few years ago. so I hope these beautiful buds will take an honorable place in your collection


You guys are good. I'm happy I was patient with the EM5 for exampe, as it is evidently a very special earbud.
Now I'm wondering about this new Yinman 150 ohms.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

furyossa said:


> Every music lover expects that, but designers often neglect that. For cheaper models we can always forgive such an omission but when it comes to models of this caliber such as Chaconne then ... we need to say something about it


100% agree, and it's with that idea in mind that I made my controversial if not arrogant entry into this thread. There's so much a "consumer modder" can do with these earbuds to make them fit and comfortable. 
In the IEM world it's even worse. I would have kept the IE800 for example, if the thing stayed in my ear.
This is why I keep saying that Bose nailed it it the fit and comfort department, and wonder why very few companies emulate them. 
The Fin principle could be perfected, it's so easy to imagine ! Any industrial designer could find many ideas to make it work.


----------



## limitlessbritt

Hey everyone, I'm new to this form but also to the earbud world. Do you guys have recommendations for bass heavy (or just the most bass you can get for earbuds) under $50 on aliexpress?  I mostly listen to hip-hop and R&B.


----------



## RikudouGoku

limitlessbritt said:


> Hey everyone, I'm new to this form but also to the earbud world. Do you guys have recommendations for bass heavy (or just the most bass you can get for earbuds) under $50 on aliexpress?  I mostly listen to hip-hop and R&B.


Yincrow X6


----------



## Memoryerror

assassin10000 said:


> Any particular reason?
> 
> I've used them for diy parts with no issues.


I am still trying to resolve my issue with them, but there response so far has been at best less than stellar and at worst devious, as well as being slow to respond.


----------



## FranQL

limitlessbritt said:


> Hey everyone, I'm new to this form but also to the earbud world. Do you guys have recommendations for bass heavy (or just the most bass you can get for earbuds) under $50 on aliexpress?  I mostly listen to hip-hop and R&B.


RY4S plus is other option


----------



## furyossa

Serge Bernamej said:


> You guys are good. I'm happy I was patient with the EM5 for exampe, as it is evidently a very special earbud.
> Now I'm wondering about this new Yinman 150 ohms.


Every bud or any type of gear need the time. After a certain working period, some show improvement, some remain unchanged and some break down because they were defective at the very beginning. Of course, users also need time to get used to the new product.
New Yinman 150 is one of the most beautiful models I have seen so far. Very good selection of materials that really fit nicely into one whole. But again, we come back to the same comfort problem. OG Yinman 150ohm had a shorter hard-rubber stem that is perfect solution for this funnel-shaped shell. Also you can wear them over your ears which is a bonus.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

RikudouGoku said:


> Yincrow X6


Vido ? no ?


----------



## furyossa

Serge Bernamej said:


> 100% agree, and it's with that idea in mind that I made my controversial if not arrogant entry into this thread. There's so much a "consumer modder" can do with these earbuds to make them fit and comfortable.
> In the IEM world it's even worse. I would have kept the IE800 for example, if the thing stayed in my ear.
> This is why I keep saying that Bose nailed it it the fit and comfort department, and wonder why very few companies emulate them.
> The Fin principle could be perfected, it's so easy to imagine ! Any industrial designer could find many ideas to make it work.


The main priority of buds intended for sports is comfort and moisture resistance. Sound quality takes second place.
In the audiophile world, it's the other way around


----------



## RikudouGoku

Serge Bernamej said:


> Vido ? no ?


Dont have any vido buds, cant confirm/deny if they are the same.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

furyossa said:


> Every bud or any type of gear need the time. After a certain working period, some show improvement, some remain unchanged and some break down because they were defective at the very beginning. Of course, users also need time to get used to the new product.
> New Yinman 150 is one of the most beautiful models I have seen so far. Very good selection of materials that really fit nicely into one whole. But again, we come back to the same comfort problem. OG Yinman 150ohm had a shorter hard-rubber stem that is perfect solution for this funnel-shaped shell. Also you can wear them over your ears which is a bonus.


We need a scout to purchase it and review it honestly. I'm tempted but I've already made a lot of bud biddings.


----------



## furyossa

limitlessbritt said:


> Hey everyone, I'm new to this form but also to the earbud world. Do you guys have recommendations for bass heavy (or just the most bass you can get for earbuds) under $50 on aliexpress?  I mostly listen to hip-hop and R&B.


This model fits your budget https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/hifi-boy-dream.html
And you can read about it here


----------



## furyossa (May 10, 2021)

Serge Bernamej said:


> We need a scout to purchase it and review it honestly. I'm tempted but I've already made a lot of bud biddings.


Just take it easy. @FranQL said it well and it should be emphasized as a warning and as very useful advice to all of us
*WARNING: stop buying impulsively*


----------



## Serge Bernamej

furyossa said:


> Just take it easy. @FranQ|L said it well and it should be emphasized as a warning and as very useful advice to all of us
> *WARNING: stop buying impulsively*


100% !
What turned me into a bugman is that, coming from $$$ over ears heapdhones, everything seemed so cheap. Until I bought a billion earbuds. But seriously, I don't regret any of them, except maybe the monk, monk plus, monk lite (the low ohm version). But then again, they're not the ones braking my bank.


----------



## furyossa

Serge Bernamej said:


> 100% !
> What turned me into a bugman is that, coming from $$$ over ears heapdhones, everything seemed so cheap. Until I bought a billion earbuds. But seriously, I don't regret any of them, except maybe the monk, monk plus, monk lite (the low ohm version). But then again, they're not the ones braking my bank.


95% success and 5% disappointment is a good score.


----------



## assassin10000 (May 10, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> I believe @baskingshark had some problems with them before....
> 
> 
> As for the huo store, the only reason I want more info if they are legit or not is because they are mostly selling DIY stuff. Like, how easy wouldnt it be for them to sell their own DIY versions of the K buds, the Samsara for example is just an MX500 shell, it should be quite easy for them to just make their own MX500 bud and call it the "samsara"....
> ...


A quick search shows he was refunded, just had some buds get lost in shipping at the beginning of covid.

Probably paranoid. The shells are custom printed and the cable ends usually have the logo.


RikudouGoku said:


> Another reason why I am so impressed by the Chaconne, is that this is pretty far from my preference target.
> 
> 
> Thats my (WIP) preference target (iem graph), so as you might be able to tell, I sure love my bass (especially sub-bass). The Chaconne is pretty far from that and yet I still love it and actually like it more than the RW-2000 which is closer to my target.


That's a lotta bass.

I'm surprised you only want around 5-6db of pinna gain. I settled for around 10db +/- 2. 12 and above was fatiguing and 8 or below was dull and lifeless for me.



Memoryerror said:


> I am still trying to resolve my issue with them, but there response so far has been at best less than stellar and at worst devious, as well as being slow to respond.


Well, I hope it works out. On AE if you can do good pics or a decent video that shows the problem, it usually works out.


----------



## RikudouGoku

assassin10000 said:


> A quick search shows he was refunded, just had some buds get lost in shipping at the beginning of covid.
> 
> Probably paranoid. The shells are custom printed and the cable ends usually have the logo.
> 
> ...


Good to know that I was paranoid.


As for that pinna gain, it is very similar to the LZ A7.






Of course some have a lot more pinna gain, than my own target and yet they are fine for me.
Like the Dunu Zen.


----------



## Сomrade (May 10, 2021)

RikudouGoku Do you have a RW-2000 graph?


----------



## phixion

Serge Bernamej said:


> Vido ? no ?


I have the Vido's and while they are good, I can't say earbuds really provide THAT much bass.

You'll find more bass in EarPods if you get a good fit with them.

I think there's just too much space between traditional earbuds and the ear to generate much bass.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 11, 2021)

phixion said:


> I have the Vido's and while they are good, I can't say earbuds really provide THAT much bass.
> 
> You'll find more bass in EarPods if you get a good fit with them.
> 
> I think there's just too much space between traditional earbuds and the ear to generate much bass.


Hence the reason why many of us "*double foam*" either via two (2) full foams; one (1) full foam w/ one (1) donut foam; or simply two (2) donuts on top of one another. In some cases this will tame the treble (depending on the foam thickness and if full or donut) but will most likely increase the bass by eliminating that physical gap you speak of.  Though there are those unique instances where certain individual's ear canal entries may simply be too wide even for _*"double"*_ or *"triple"* _*foaming*_ to work .

In those cases where the treble is fine but the bass is anemic the solution lays in using a single or double donut or a very thin full with a donut on top of that which will increase the bass with very little to no effect on the mid-range and treble. Do note that many of us have discovered (found) that thin foams are excellent at providing a better fit with the least effect on the sound signature above the bass line.

Another viable option is the use of a silicon ring w/ either a full or donut foam pulled over that.

Experimentation is the key here.

Although not known for deep chest-thumping, heart-pounding, impactful bass... earbuds when fitted correctly can and do offer fast, extremely detailed, open-sounding low bass that rivals IEMs, full-sized headphones, and even small monitor speakers. Of course, due to their small transducer/driver size they simply can't move air, like larger headphones or speakers, to create that slamming bass nor by their design (sitting outside the ear canal) can they create that sealed "rumbling bass friendly" resonating chamber as seen in IEMs. But what they *do offer* is an unique speaker-like presentation that is both intimate and airy while still being exciting and well-timbred.


----------



## furyossa (May 11, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Hence the reason why many of us "*double foam*" either via two (2) full foams; one (1) full foam w/ one (1) donut foam; or simply two (2) donuts on top of one another. In some cases this will tame the treble (depending on the foam thickness and if full or donut) but will most likely increase the bass by eliminating that physical gap you speak of.  Though there are those unique instances where certain individual's ear canal entries may simply be too wide even for _*"double"*_ or *"triple"* _*foaming*_ to work .
> 
> In those cases where the treble is fine but the bass is anemic the solution lays in using a single or double donut or a very thin full with a donut on top of that which will increase the bass with very little to no effect on the mid-range and treble. Do note that many of us have discovered (found) that thin foams are excellent at providing a better fit with the least effect on the sound signature above the bass line.
> 
> ...


Excellent analysis.  
I will add my old post from DIY Earbuds thread, the first graph shows influence of full foam vs no foam.
Also silicone caps have an effect on sound


----------



## Serge Bernamej

WoodyLuvr said:


> Hence the reason why many of us "*double foam*" either via two (2) full foams; one (1) full foam w/ one (1) donut foam; or simply two (2) donuts on top of one another. In some cases this will tame the treble (depending on the foam thickness and if full or donut) but will most likely increase the bass by eliminating that physical gap you speak of.  Though there are those unique instances where certain individual's ear canal entries may simply be too wide even for _*"double"*_ or *"triple"* _*foaming*_ to work .
> 
> In those cases where the treble is fine but the bass is anemic the solution lays in using a single or double donut or a very thin full with a donut on top of that which will increase the bass with very little to no effect on the mid-range and treble. Do note that many of us have discovered (found) that thin foams are excellent at providing a better fit with the least effect on the sound signature above the bass line.
> 
> ...


Beautiful comment.
I often add (not only with earbuds but headphones in general) a powered subwoofer.
I’ll let you guess the results


----------



## furyossa (May 11, 2021)

Serge Bernamej said:


> Beautiful comment.
> I often add (not only with earbuds but headphones in general) a powered subwoofer.
> I’ll let you guess the results


The result


----------



## phixion

Yep I can agree with that. I always remember the earbuds in the 80s and the difference foam made, back then I wouldn't dream of using them without foam.

Sadly for me, earbuds just don't fit my ears well enough to get good sound. On the other hand, EarPods fit great and because of that give good bass.

Sure, it's not IEM level of bass, but they are pretty close and come with the convenience factor when I don't want isolating earphones.


----------



## cappuchino (May 11, 2021)

Is it just me or earbuds don't sound as good if you've got small ears and use small eartips with your IEMs? At least the 15.4mm, MX500 shell ones that I've tried (MS16 an exception).

'Cause when I use the faceplate to "enlarge" my canal by pushing it downward, I get better bass response and fuller midrange. To do this, I just push the top of the shell downward using my fingers. I hope that makes sense. I've been doing that for some time now in short periods (sounds and seems weird, I know).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all the buds I've tried are bad. It's just that there's like a *inserting random number* 15% improvement on SQ.

I'm guessing this is related to resonance and vibration which I still don't understand a thing about? Or just how much the driver makes contact with your ear and how much sound is "released" unobstructed? Or possibly that my ears would be better off with 14.8mm drivers?


----------



## RikudouGoku (May 11, 2021)

cappuchino said:


> Is it just me or earbuds don't sound as good if you've got small ears and use small eartips with your IEMs? At least the 15.4mm, MX500 shell ones that I've tried (MS16 an exception).
> 
> 'Cause when I use the faceplate to "enlarge" my canal by pushing it downward, I get better bass response and fuller midrange. To do this, I just push the top of the shell downward using my fingers. I hope that makes sense. I've been doing that for some time now in short periods (sounds and seems weird, I know).
> 
> ...


If you got small ears, then the bell shapes that K uses should work for you.


----------



## furyossa

phixion said:


> Yep I can agree with that. I always remember the earbuds in the 80s and the difference foam made, back then I wouldn't dream of using them without foam.
> 
> Sadly for me, earbuds just don't fit my ears well enough to get good sound. On the other hand, EarPods fit great and because of that give good bass.
> 
> Sure, it's not IEM level of bass, but they are pretty close and come with the convenience factor when I don't want isolating earphones.


Just think about this. Let's say you have a headphone, IEM and earbuds and all of these produce exactly the same SQ (ignore the price in this case)
Which of them he would use the most during the year? Which of them is the most comfortable for long listening?
99.9% answers will be earbuds. 
Now another question arises: Which one would you use to listen outside?
Even with foam or silicone caps, earbuds will never be able to make a seal as headphones and especially IEM's.
That's why buds require more volume than other two which is not ideal for hearing.
All in all there is no ideal solution but only the smart way of using an adequate piece of gear that allows us to enjoy this hobby in a safe way


----------



## furyossa

cappuchino said:


> Is it just me or earbuds don't sound as good if you've got small ears and use small eartips with your IEMs? At least the 15.4mm, MX500 shell ones that I've tried (MS16 an exception).
> 
> 'Cause when I use the faceplate to "enlarge" my canal by pushing it downward, I get better bass response and fuller midrange. To do this, I just push the top of the shell downward using my fingers. I hope that makes sense. I've been doing that for some time now in short periods (sounds and seems weird, I know).
> 
> ...


That's why we have different driver size, different type of shell, different way of wearing and different accessories that enable better fit and comfort


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> If you got small ears, then the bell shapes that K uses should work for you.


It would be really cool to have a white shell and black cover variant on sale


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Little update on Zen LL, @palestofwhite . 
Regarding ergonomics and microphonics, the earbud is fantastic. Fit and comfort are 100%. Sound is smooth and full. 
I have no complain about it, I just hope it will last as the upper cable part (the Y part) is so incredibly light and thin.


----------



## 40760 (May 11, 2021)

Serge Bernamej said:


> Little update on Zen LL, @palestofwhite .
> Regarding ergonomics and microphonics, the earbud is fantastic. Fit and comfort are 100%. Sound is smooth and full.
> I have no complain about it, I just hope it will last as the upper cable part (the Y part) is so incredibly light and thin.



I think the SL version will be more durable, but definitely not as light because of the metal Y-split and heavier copper cable.

Zen LL has a good sound for the size. Retains most of the warmth of Zen 2.0 but also has more clarity. Bass is not that bad too.

I think if you take good care of it, there should not be any issues. Unless you pull really hard and the cable comes off the shell.


----------



## Serge Bernamej (May 11, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> I think the SL version will be more durable, but definitely not as light because of the metal Y-split and heavier copper cable.
> 
> Zen LL has a good sound for the size. Retains most of the warmth of Zen 2.0 but also has more clarity. Bass is not that bad too.
> 
> I think if you take good care of it, there should not be any issues. Unless you pull really hard and the cable comes off the shell.


Good news then. I will definitely not use it for an all night sleep earbud, because as you may know, sometimes the buds end up under us and in all sorts of positions. But clearly a great bud for day rest etc...


----------



## 40760 (May 11, 2021)

Serge Bernamej said:


> Good news then. I will definitely not use it for an all night sleep earbud, because as you may know, sometimes the buds end up under us and in all sorts of position. But clearly a great bud for day rest etc...



I think it should be quite safe for sleep use. According to VE's owner, the creation of the LL was because he wanted a compact version of Zen that can be used for sleeping and lower impedance for mobile console gaming.

The detaching of the cables from the drivers usually happen when the cable gets caught by a closing door or something rougher.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

palestofwhite said:


> I think the SL version will be more durable, but definitely not as light because of the metal Y-split and heavier copper cable.
> 
> Zen LL has a good sound for the size. Retains most of the warmth of Zen 2.0 but also has more clarity. Bass is not that bad too.
> 
> I think if you take good care of it, there should not be any issues. Unless you pull really hard and the cable comes off the shell.


Hello, by the way I have the SL edition. It is extremely light. The Y part is weightless.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

palestofwhite said:


> I think it should be quite safe for sleep use. According to VE's owner, the creation of the LL was because he wanted a compact version of Zen that can be used for sleeping and lower impedance for mobile console gaming.
> 
> The detaching of the cables from the drivers usually happen when the cable gets caught by a closing door or something rougher.


hahaha, I love these buds too much to take the risk. Anyway I'll still lay down with them, just not for the whole night. Also the Zen LL is still 150 ohms, still benefits from an amplifier, which I kind of likes.


----------



## 40760

Serge Bernamej said:


> hahaha, I love these buds too much to take the risk. Anyway I'll still lay down with them, just not for the whole night. Also the Zen LL is still 150 ohms, still benefits from an amplifier, which I kind of likes.



That is true. While they benefit from an amp, they don't sound that bad out of something like a phone. 

Saving grace is they are half the price of the Zen 2.0 if anything goes wrong.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

palestofwhite said:


> I think it should be quite safe for sleep use. According to VE's owner, the creation of the LL was because he wanted a compact version of Zen that can be used for sleeping and lower impedance for mobile console gaming.


Correct; the VE Zen LL are literally called the "Sleeping Bud" and for good reason.


----------



## Сomrade (May 11, 2021)

I need a table (graph) of the amplitude-frequency response of the Yincrow RW-2000.
Share it, comrades.


----------



## wskl (May 11, 2021)

Serge Bernamej said:


> Hello, by the way I have the SL edition. It is extremely light. The Y part is weightless.



VE upgraded the cable on the SL edition yesterday, it is now SLQ (Soft Light Quad)

I'm actually curious if anyone has both Zen LL and SL editions and what differences are between the two?


----------



## Serge Bernamej

wskl said:


> VE upgraded the cable on the SL edition yesterday, it is now SLQ (Soft Light Quad)
> 
> I'm actually curious if anyone has both Zen LL and SL editions and what differences are between the two?


That’s exactly the one I have. Soft and light.


----------



## wskl

Serge Bernamej said:


> That’s exactly the one I have. Soft and light.



Nice, I was mistaken then, they must have changed the cable at an earlier date.

I remember that the 1st version of the SL edition was like this:


----------



## Serge Bernamej

wskl said:


> Nice, I was mistaken then, they must have changed the cable at an earlier date.
> 
> I remember that the 1st version of the SL edition was like this:





Mistaken but not by far


----------



## nick n

RikudouGoku said:


> Indeed they do. *NR 1 transducer for acoustic/vocals* isnt a small feat with my collection.
> (over 100 transducers.)


Apples to oranges but as far as *vocal presentation only,* it seems these are close/equal/better to the fullsized JVC HA-MX100 series ?
Wow.
Will have a peek at your review, thanks for the impressions.


----------



## siderak

Interesting that I was going write that tonight it’s just become so clear to me that my Blur earbuds are so much better in clarity, separation,  soundstage and even bass than any of the iems I’ve had (including andromeda) and rival some of my full sized headphones (including hd800s). The truth is earbuds are so much more bang for your buck. I thoroughly enjoy the low cost ones like the Ry4s and b40 too. It’s kind of crazy. 
Now I’m really curious about the em5, rw-2000 and chaconne but I’m going to try to stay focused on my already excellent collection.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

siderak said:


> Interesting that I was going write that tonight it’s just become so clear to me that my Blur earbuds are so much better in clarity, separation,  soundstage and even bass than any of the iems I’ve had (including andromeda) and rival some of my full sized headphones (including hd800s). The truth is earbuds are so much more bang for your buck. I thoroughly enjoy the low cost ones like the Ry4s and b40 too. It’s kind of crazy.
> Now I’m really curious about the em5, rw-2000 and chaconne but I’m going to try to stay focused on my already excellent collection.


Which earbud you venerate the most of your collection ?


----------



## mochill

siderak said:


> Interesting that I was going write that tonight it’s just become so clear to me that my Blur earbuds are so much better in clarity, separation,  soundstage and even bass than any of the iems I’ve had (including andromeda) and rival some of my full sized headphones (including hd800s). The truth is earbuds are so much more bang for your buck. I thoroughly enjoy the low cost ones like the Ry4s and b40 too. It’s kind of crazy.
> Now I’m really curious about the em5, rw-2000 and chaconne but I’m going to try to stay focused on my already excellent collection.


Which blur


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 12, 2021)

siderak said:


> Interesting that I was going write that tonight it’s just become so clear to me that my Blur earbuds are so much better in clarity, separation,  soundstage and even bass than any of the iems I’ve had (including andromeda) and rival some of my full sized headphones (including hd800s).


I have been extremely impressed with my newly received aPs model the *Blur 266 MX64 aPs (64Ω)*. I rate it along side my Ksearphone Bell-Ti (120Ω) and D•Q•S•M A•u•d•i•o Turandot (16Ω) in sound quality but due to them being a larger shell type (MX500), while still comfortable, the comfort isn't quite as nice as the Bell-Ti or Turandot.



siderak said:


> The truth is earbuds are so much more bang for your buck. I thoroughly enjoy the low cost ones like the Ry4s and b40 too. It’s kind of crazy.


Concur completely!   *why earbuds?*


----------



## siderak

mochill said:


> Which blur


I have a few. The ones I’m really loving right now are called Ultimate Brokee 2.5mm. They are in a pk shell. Giant soundstage fantastic bass and great clarity.


----------



## siderak

Serge Bernamej said:


> Which earbud you venerate the most of your collection ?


Currently the Blur Ultimate Brokee 2.5 mm. It’s in a PK shell. Just perfect. It’s a  better than my Simphonio dragon 2+ or sennheiser mx980.


----------



## siderak

mochill said:


> Which blur


I also have the Blur Magic Sound 3.5 mm 300 ohm and one he calls Half and Half 2.5 mm 150 ohm. This are both mx500 shells. They are both truly great but this Ultimate Brokee is godlike.


----------



## FranQL (May 12, 2021)

siderak said:


> Interesting that I was going write that tonight it’s just become so clear to me that my Blur earbuds are so much better in clarity, separation,  soundstage and even bass than any of the iems I’ve had (including andromeda) and rival some of my full sized headphones (including hd800s). The truth is earbuds are so much more bang for your buck. I thoroughly enjoy the low cost ones like the Ry4s and b40 too. It’s kind of crazy.
> Now I’m really curious about the em5, rw-2000 and chaconne but I’m going to try to stay focused on my already excellent


In my experience B40 is disappointing, there are sounds from my music tracks that are no heard, it is the worst of everything I have tried.


----------



## nick n (May 12, 2021)

darn I posted wrong spot again sorry


----------



## siderak

FranQL said:


> In my experience B40 is disappointing, there are sounds from my music tracks that are no heard, it is the worst of everything I have tried.


What kind of sounds are not heard?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

nick n said:


> 6, in Addition a pair jumper allow            to change the parameter of analog filter to choose  between neutral             and warmer sound quality.
> 
> ^ did DMS know this ?
> 
> ...


*???*


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> *???*


These three questionnaires are short for what? why? when?


----------



## FranQL

siderak said:


> What kind of sounds are not heard?


To give just one example, listening to Mike Oldfield's omadawn with B40 and then doing it with any other bud shows all the shortcomings, we talk about it silences xylophones, oboes, flutes ... but it happens to me with all the tracks that I know well and where I hope to find a sound, does not appear or appears with a ridiculous resolution, to such an extent that I stop using them as disconcerting, I spend more time guessing what sounds I am missing than listening to music. I cannot advise this outbreak to anyone.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 12, 2021)

FranQL said:


> To give just one example, listening to Mike Oldfield's omadawn with B40 and then doing it with any other bud shows all the shortcomings, we talk about it silences xylophones, oboes, flutes ... but it happens to me with all the tracks that I know well and where I hope to find a sound, does not appear or appears with a ridiculous resolution, to such an extent that I stop using them as disconcerting, I spend more time guessing what sounds I am missing than listening to music. I cannot advise this outbreak to anyone.


Strange... sadly sounds like you might have a faulty pair there as I just listened to that Oldfield album with my wife's *NICEHCK Audio B40 w/ Mic *comparing against my *Ks Bell-Ti 120Ω *and I do not experience (hear) that issue at all.

By the way, that truly is a great classic ambient electronic album... my favorite genre. Really enjoy Oldfield along with Froese, Jarre, Schulze, Eno, and Grosskopf.


----------



## FranQL (May 12, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Strange... sadly sounds like you might have a faulty pair there as I just listened to that Oldfield album with my wife's *NICEHCK Audio B40 w/ Mic *comparing against my *Ks Bell-Ti *and I do not experience (hear) that issue at all.
> 
> By the way, that is truly a great classic ambient electronic album... my favorite genre. Really enjoy Oldfield along with Froese, Jarre, Schulze, Eno, and Grosskopf.


It is possible, here they speak well of this pair. It occurred to me with all sources, in this case the model is without a microphone:






I save the recommendations and add M83 "DSVII", Sebastián Plano "Impetus", Luca Dalberto "Endless", Lambert "Sweet Apocalypse" and I could continue but those are highly recommended.


----------



## siderak

FranQL said:


> It is possible, here they speak well of this pair. It occurred to me with all sources, in this case the model is without a microphone:
> 
> 
> 
> I save the recommendations and add M83 "DSVII", Sebastián Plano "Impetus", Luca Dalberto "Endless", Lambert "Sweet Apocalypse" and I could continue but those are highly recommended.


I have to agree that your b40 may be faulty. It’s not the greatest earbud by far but for $10, I think it’s impressive. That being said, the frequency ranges bleed into each other and the highs are not airy or sparkly. They don’t have the greatest resolution or instrument separation but also shouldn’t be missing any sounds. The soundstage is pretty good too. 

im gonna have to check out your tracks!


----------



## siderak

FranQL said:


> It is possible, here they speak well of this pair. It occurred to me with all sources, in this case the model is without a microphone:
> 
> 
> 
> I save the recommendations and add M83 "DSVII", Sebastián Plano "Impetus", Luca Dalberto "Endless", Lambert "Sweet Apocalypse" and I could continue but those are highly recommended.


What are your favorite earbuds?


----------



## FranQL (May 12, 2021)

siderak said:


> What are your favorite earbuds?




To this day TO600, but maybe it has some highs left for my taste, it is not round with the lowest notes of synthesizers or electric guitar distortions. But the fit, comfort make it quite complete.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

FranQL said:


> To this day TO600, but maybe it has some highs left for my taste, it is not round with the lowest notes of synthesizers or electric guitar distortions. But the fit, comfort make it quite complete.


Anyone else in here impressed by the TO600?
I do love it’s construction judging by the pics.
Fin would be easy to place.


----------



## siderak

FranQL said:


> To this day TO600, but maybe it has some highs left for my taste, it is not round with the lowest notes of synthesizers or electric guitar distortions. But the fit, comfort make it quite complete.


Looks really nice. I’ve never had a toneking before. 600 ohm! 
Would you say they are bright?


----------



## FranQL

No, it is quite neutral and with satisfactory bass, only that I would like it with a little less treble.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Good headphones are like red pills, you hear everything, and a lot sounds a bit crappy.
Good earbuds are like wine, a lot of average recordings feel like...”mariage“ material.
To put it in a moderator friendly way.


----------



## povidlo

Earbuds lovers in Europe, Miberia has 1MORE earbuds on sale.





They ship to the following countries.




Ordered E1008 which has a rare dual-driver config for an earbud. Reviews are mixed but it's supposed to have excellent bass presentation. It has been successfully delivered to my family relative in Germany with DHL shipping for 15 euro, so 50 euro all in. Hopefully will be A/B'ing vs dual-driver Maria within two weeks.  

I already own EO320. Been using them a lot lately for work conference calls due to excellent design with non-fatiquing light fit and good quality mic. Listening to tunes in-between calls, these puppies have excellent vertical extension both ways. Mids are quite full sounding, with vocals primarily sounding a bit recessed. They get a bit overwhelmed imaging-wise on complex, mutli-instrument tracks. Excluding complex jazz and electronica & vocal-focused stuff, EO320 are very enjoyable to listen to.


----------



## RikudouGoku

povidlo said:


> Earbuds lovers in Europe, Miberia has 1MORE earbuds on sale.
> 
> 
> They ship to the following countries.
> ...


Didnt know they made buds as well. I used a lot of their 1more/xiaomi hybrid iems years ago.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 12, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Didnt know they made buds as well. I used a lot of their 1more/xiaomi hybrid iems years ago.


Yeah the 2015 EO303 Piston (32Ω) and the 2016 EO320 Piston (32Ω) both came in both IEM and Earbud formats.

The 2016 1More (Xiaomi) E1008 (32Ω) is an exquisitely designed/well built Dual Driver earbud... composed of a dynamic driver and a multi-layer ceramic tweeter.


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yeah the 2016 1More (Xiaomi) Pistons came in both IEM and Earbud formats.
> 
> The 2016 1More (Xiaomi) E1008 (32Ω) is an exquisitely designed/well built Dual Driver earbud... composed of a dynamic driver and a multi-layer ceramic tweeter.


WHAT!! A DD + piezo bud???

Went straight away to their site and...

https://usa.1more.com/collections/headphones

they dont even have a single bud listed....

Rip


----------



## povidlo

RikudouGoku said:


> WHAT!! A DD + piezo bud???
> 
> Went straight away to their site and...
> 
> ...


It's an older model as outlined by @WoodyLuvr . It's sold out everywhere except EBay and this EU seller, as far as NA and EU availability that I found.

Interesting tech, for sure.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> WHAT!! A DD + piezo bud???
> 
> Went straight away to their site and...
> 
> ...


I think they were a few years too early with these earbuds... here is a great *review* of the E1008.


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> I think they were a few years too early with these earbuds... here is a great *review* of the E1008.


Are there any similar buds out there with non-dd/hybrid setups?

But yeah, it does look like they were too early with that bud....


----------



## povidlo

RikudouGoku said:


> Are there any similar buds out there with non-dd/hybrid setups?
> 
> But yeah, it does look like they were too early with that bud....


Dunu Alpha 1 has DD+BA setup. 

Not aware of any other earbuds with BA driver.


----------



## FranQL

RikudouGoku said:


> WHAT!! A DD + piezo bud???
> 
> Went straight away to their site and...
> 
> ...


yes, it's purchasable


----------



## RikudouGoku

FranQL said:


> yes, it's purchasable


If its discontinued, there might be fakes out there. I know that there were a lot of fakes on their piston/hybrid iems years ago...


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> If its discontinued, there might be fakes out there. I know that there were a lot of fakes on their piston/hybrid iems years ago...


Completely concur, I highly suspect this is a fake.


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Completely concur, I highly suspect this is a fake.


Being cheaper than the original MSRP is also another red flag.


----------



## povidlo

Paid with PayPal, not worried  

The seller has mostly Xiaomi stuff, I think (hope) they might be just clearing out old stock.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Any info on these?

Found this here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/permalink/5632843203422611/


----------



## assassin10000

RikudouGoku said:


> Any info on these?
> 
> Found this here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/permalink/5632843203422611/



K's bell ti onmoji
K's bell ti
Astrotec lyra (unsure which version)
Says pislo makes them, looks similar to their piezo driver housing. Not sure what model.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 3, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Any info on these?
> 
> Found this here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/permalink/5632843203422611/


Yes, we have some really interesting earbuds arriving this summer!




*earbud timeline*​​​

The *Astrotec Lyra Nature Limited Edition 150Ω* is a special high impedance version of the 2019 Astrotec Lyra Nature (32Ω). There have been only a few pics released thus far but more should be available after they debut this weekend at the *3rd China (Chengdu) International Headphone Show* (15-16 May 2021). Here are some additional pics:



Spoiler: Astrotec Lyra Nature Limited Edition Pics













The *Ks (Ksearphone - Kaisheng Technology) Temperament Bell *series for 2021 so far includes two (2) known models... a new flagship model only known as "*Bell-Ti Plus*" and the "Ying Yang Little Bell" aka "Black & White Little Bell" which is simply the "*Onmyoji 2021 Version*" which was first introduced back in 2020 (Ks Temperament Bell-Ti Onmyoji; 30Ω; Aluminum Shell). Many are anxious to see what driver impedance and shell material are used for these models though it is expected to be aluminum shells for both with ~30-32Ω (Onmyoji v2021) and ~120-150Ω (Plus) drivers. They debuted at the *2021 Shanghai International Headphone Exhibition *a few weeks back but will officially launch for release at the* 3rd China (Chengdu) International Headphone Show* this weekend 15-16 May 2021. Looking forward to seeing the specs on both. Here some pics of the PLUS:



Spoiler: Ks Bell-Ti PLUS Pics













The *PISLO PXVV* by ArtVano is a second generation version of their *piezoelectric* ceramic solid wood & resin cavity flathead earbud first introduced back three years ago the *2018 PISLO PX HIFI* (31Ω @ 115dB; International "Piezoelectric" Version; ~USD $1,659!) which did come in three (3) other lower "_non-piezoelectric_" versions:

2018 - PISLO P7 (31Ω @ 108dB; Domestic-China Version)​2018 - PISLO PX (31Ω @ 115dB; International "Standard" Version)​2020 - PISLO 焱 Yan Black Flame Edition (31Ω @ 106dB)​
The *2021 PISLO PXVV* comes in two (2) piezoelectric versions: Standard or High-Impedance.

The high-impedance version comes with a dedicated piezoelectric decoding amp (Clot Audio CPWoo! - an original inverter-increasing current compensation circuit also designed by ArtVano) making it the world's first earbud with a professional-grade portable piezoelectric decoding tail. This dedicated mobile phone decoding amp was designed for dynamic headphones, especially flat-head earplugs. It is the second professional-grade portable decoder released after the CPOne / CPOne S dedicated decoding amp models were released in 2019 and CPOne Pro in 2020 (see in Spoiler down below for more info and pics).

*Clot Audio CPWOO!*​Adaptation interface: 3.5mm/2.5mm/4.4mm (world's first three-port decoding amp)​Support: DSD512/PCM768HKZ via AKM AK4462​Distortion: 118db​Power consumption: 55mA​Peak output: 180mw/32 ohm​Support: iOS, Android, Windows operating system​Power gain compensation circuit: The specially designed gain compensation circuit makes the decoder have better dynamic expression and image solidity when pushing the ring earplugs. It is the first decoding tail designed for moving coils.​
The earbud is reported to incorporate a 9-way sound tube with 3 physical frequency channel divisions and uses copper silver alloy + silver gold-plated + single crystal silver wiring. These earbuds recently debuted a few weeks back at the *2021 Shanghai International Headphone Exhibition*.

Standard version: 32 ohms​High-resistance version: 150 ohms (including 4.4mm high-resistance wiring and dedicated amp)​Standard version price: 4999​High-impedance version (including piezoelectric amp) price: 6999​​_I am assuming those prices are in Chinese Yuan so USD $777 and $1,100._​


Spoiler: PISLO PXVV Pics































The older* CLOT AUDIO CPOne / CPOne S / CPOne Pro* design is a wood and stainless steel embedded design. The DAC can support 32 bit/384hz and does DSD 256, using the highly regarded AKK4497 custom chip. The CPOne includes 4 gain adjustments and comes standard with a gold, silver and palladium alloy cable.


----------



## assassin10000

My current stable of TWS earbuds.





Top left: Sabbat X12 Pro, 14.8mm 40Ω Ti bass driver and case has QI charging added.
Top right: Sabbat X12 Ultra, 14.8mm 32Ω Ti driver.
Bottom: Samsung Buds Live (beans), with O-rings that make them fit my smaller concha more comfortably. Surprisingly good sound despite no seal/foam. This is my second pair and I think a few updates in the 9 months since I owned the first pair changed the tuning (for the better).


----------



## FranQL

assassin10000 said:


> My current stable of TWS earbuds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Samsung Buds Live I have been tempted to buy them, they are really cheap now, the question is because of the performance of the microphone for phone calls, do you use it for calls?


----------



## assassin10000

FranQL said:


> Samsung Buds Live I have been tempted to buy them, they are really cheap now, the question is because of the performance of the microphone for phone calls, do you use it for calls?



Nope. Reportedly good though.


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, we have some really interesting earbuds arriving this summer!
> 
> ​*earbud timeline*​​​
> 
> ...


Looks like those buds are going to be quite expensive, maybe in the 300 usd area?

That PISLO bud though, damn that price lol. Otherwise, it is quite strange to me that it needs a dedicated amp for it, makes it look extremely similar to the True EST iems like the Shure KSE1200/1500.


----------



## mochill

siderak said:


> I also have the Blur Magic Sound 3.5 mm 300 ohm and one he calls Half and Half 2.5 mm 150 ohm. This are both mx500 shells. They are both truly great but this Ultimate Brokee is godlike.


How much was ultimate brooke


----------



## RikudouGoku

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001657660869.html

....ok slightly triggered by the fact that they are calling the RW-2000 an "in-ear".....


----------



## furyossa (May 13, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001657660869.html
> 
> ....ok slightly triggered by the fact that they are calling the RW-2000 an "in-ear".....


Only the first 2-3 words meter in any label on Ali, the rest of the text is there to make it easier to find during the search, similar to tags
Take a look this kind of tags in the label here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002344857206.html
This can be quite dangerous, people can think of anything


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Only the first 2-3 words meter in any label on Ali, the rest of the text is there to make it easier to find during the search, similar to tags


Yeah, it works for them but is very annoying when I try to search for "earbuds" in a store and find iems instead....


----------



## Сomrade

RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001657660869.html
> 
> ....ok slightly triggered by the fact that they are calling the RW-2000 an "in-ear".....


Everything is translated into Russian correctly.


----------



## FranQL

FYI


----------



## WoodyLuvr

FranQL said:


> FYI


Thanks for sharing and giving me (us all) a "head's up!" on this momentous update at the *Smabat Shop*.  LOL the Super Noe is supposed to be Super ONE!


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Thanks for sharing and giving me (us all) a "head's up!" on this momentous update at the *Smabat Shop*.  LOL the Super Noe is supposed to be Super ONE!


Smabat M0 (20ohm Ti) vs M2s Pro (40ohm Ti). The difference is double the impedance and almost double the price.
I don't know if it will be possible to use any of the DIY drivers as it could with the previous modular system? Fingers crossed


----------



## furyossa

What do you think of the  Super Noe aka. Super ONE design? 
It looks interesting and is probably a shell of less weight than previous Smabat models.
I am only worried about these sharp edges on the side of the shell, I hope it does not touch the ear when worn over the ear or upright


----------



## FranQL

I don't know about you, but if I have $ 300 to spend it will be very, very difficult for me to invest it in a smabat


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> I don't know about you, but if I have $ 300 to spend it will be very, very difficult for me to invest it in a smabat


Forget about the price, i know   I try to not look . But we can comment about other things for sure


----------



## WoodyLuvr

furyossa said:


> What do you think of the  Super Noe aka. Super ONE design?
> It looks interesting and is probably a shell of less weight than previous Smabat models.
> I am only worried about these sharp edges on the side of the shell, I hope it does not touch the ear when worn over the ear or upright


Concur, wondering the same.


----------



## FranQL (May 13, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Smabat M0 (20ohm Ti) vs M2s Pro (40ohm Ti). The difference is double the impedance and almost double the price.
> I don't know if it will be possible to use any of the DIY drivers as it could with the previous modular system? Fingers crossed


Well, I was thinking about the clema (I don't know how it is translated, but it is the white coupling), you who know the DIY, do you think that loose in the Inter of the bud will affect the sound as it is placed? 

and then seeing the noe, I don't see ventilation.


----------



## furyossa (May 13, 2021)

FranQL said:


> Well, I was thinking about the clema (I don't know how it is translated, but it is the white coupling), you who know the DIY, do you think that loose in the Inter of the bud will affect the sound as it is placed? and then seeing the noe, I don't see ventilation.


Everything inside the shell will influence the sound in some way.
First the inner cavity space decreases, the pressure changes, the reflection of the sound wave from the back also changes.
Worst case scenario from these changes are hollow sound if the space is too large or has a lot of vents or congested sound if the space is too small or without vents.
Super Noe has "special" vent system aka. Labyrinth resonance structure and vents are placd at the top - back of the shell


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Thanks for sharing and giving me (us all) a "head's up!" on this momentous update at the *Smabat Shop*.  LOL the Super Noe is supposed to be Super ONE!


While it is nice to see more high-tier/TOTL buds coming out, I do wonder if they can handle the (probably) high competition in that price range since Smabat seems to be more into the mid-tier area.


----------



## furyossa (May 13, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Everything inside the shell will influence the sound in some way.
> First the inner cavity space decreases, the pressure changes, the reflection of the sound wave from the back also changes.
> Worst case scenario from these changes are hollow sound if the space is too large or has a lot of vents or congested sound if the space is too small or without vents.
> Super Noe has "special" vent system aka. Labyrinth resonance structure and vents are placd at the top - back of the shell


They could also increase the bass vent a bit more because there is more space here



The idea for Super Noe Extra Bass version  + $50-$100 increase in price.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> While it is nice to see more high-tier/TOTL buds coming out, I do wonder if they can handle the (probably) high competition in that price range since Smabat seems to be more into the mid-tier area.


Why not. These days, the trend is that newer models of earbuds have a price of around $300


----------



## RikudouGoku




----------



## FranQL (May 13, 2021)

and says "super" that automatically improves all frequencies and tone, you add with that you will be much more cool!!!!!!!


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


>


There are many "bio" diaphragm.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002497185907.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001632322308.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001637773425.html


----------



## furyossa (May 13, 2021)

FranQL said:


> and says "super" that automatically improves all frequencies and tone, you add with that you will be much more cool!!!!!!!


I think "super" is more related to the price


----------



## 1clearhead (May 13, 2021)

povidlo said:


> Paid with PayPal, not worried
> 
> The seller has mostly Xiaomi stuff, I think (hope) they might be just clearing out old stock.


Just purchased the 1MORE E1008 at the taobao store below for only 299 RMB ($46 US dollars). How this one almost past me by at such a low price is beyond me. I feel very fortunate! The seller has only around "50 of them left". Get them while you can!

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...MGGlQF&id=642997904247&ns=1&abbucket=3#detail

Can't wait to check these out!...Another collector's edition "TOTL" for me!

-Clear


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> There are many "bio" diaphragm.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002497185907.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001632322308.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001637773425.html


Yeah, it was more about the "optical fiber" part that confused me. Unless optical fiber is included in "bio" diaphragms. 



1clearhead said:


> Just purchased the 1MORE E1008 at the taobao store below for only 299 RMB ($46 US dollars). How this one almost past me by at such a low price is beyond me. I feel very fortunate! The seller has only around "50 of them left". Get them while you can!
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...MGGlQF&id=642997904247&ns=1&abbucket=3#detail
> 
> ...


Be careful about fakes though...


----------



## n00b

Ah, I'm pretty happy with my EBX21s and like them a tiny bit better than my ME80s. I manage to get a good fit but I have to use silicone ear hooks and after a while it does get physically fatiguing, which is a shame because the openness of earbuds make them so easy to listen to compared to IEMs or closedback cans. I am pretty interested in the K Bells at this point if they are extremely comfortable, just turned off by the high price and lack of removable cables/options for balanced output. Curious to see what sort of sound signature the 2021 versions posted above will have -- I'd be really tempted if they're on the warmer bassier side given how bright my EBX21s sound.


----------



## FranQL

@povidlo Just inform you that the store in Spain where you bought the 1more is a trusted store, they work with Xiaomi stocks (of all product families). The chances of it being fake are the same as buying in any local commerce store ....


----------



## assassin10000

n00b said:


> ... K Bells at this point if they are extremely comfortable, just turned off by the high price and lack of removable cables/options...


Ditto. If the Bell-Ti had MMCX I'd have them.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Ditto. If the Bell-Ti had MMCX I'd have them.


That will require total redesign of the buds because otherwise it would have a negative impact on comfort.
Only for this pair of buds I do not suggest the MMCX version, they are perfect as they are.
But I definitely agree with you, all models over $100 should have interchangeable cables, it's convenient that way


----------



## n00b

Right, even if there were no MMCX connectors I would at least appreciate different termination. I would really like silver cable in 2.5mm balanced with 3.5mm or 4.4mm adapter compatibility, like the Bell-WE(?) had. The mental gymnastics I've been trying lately is just accept that 3.5mm single ended sounds fine and is more compatible with multiple devices, including more retro tech like an old walkman or gameboy.


----------



## povidlo

1clearhead said:


> Just purchased the 1MORE E1008 at the taobao store below for only 299 RMB ($46 US dollars). How this one almost past me by at such a low price is beyond me. I feel very fortunate! The seller has only around "50 of them left". Get them while you can!
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...MGGlQF&id=642997904247&ns=1&abbucket=3#detail
> 
> ...


Looking forward to your impressions! 

And comparison to EP09 



FranQL said:


> @povidlo Just inform you that the store in Spain where you bought the 1more is a trusted store, they work with Xiaomi stocks (of all product families). The chances of it being fake are the same as buying in any local commerce store ....


Thanks for confirming, bro.


----------



## RikudouGoku

n00b said:


> Right, even if there were no MMCX connectors I would at least appreciate different termination. I would really like silver cable in 2.5mm balanced with 3.5mm or 4.4mm adapter compatibility, like the Bell-WE(?) had. The mental gymnastics I've been trying lately is just accept that 3.5mm single ended sounds fine and is more compatible with multiple devices, including more retro tech like an old walkman or gameboy.


SE works fine if you are using it on a desktop amp. But if you are using it on a portable source, going balanced will in most cases give you a LOT (like, double or even triple the amount) more power than the SE output.


----------



## siderak

mochill said:


> How much was ultimate brooke


I honestly can’t remember.


----------



## n00b

RikudouGoku said:


> SE works fine if you are using it on a desktop amp. But if you are using it on a portable source, going balanced will in most cases give you a LOT (like, double or even triple the amount) more power than the SE output.


it's even more important of a consideration for me considering some of these buds are like 120ohms! and since i use sony DAPs they tend to be a bit underpowered anyway even with balanced output


----------



## siderak

So I’ve been thinking about the inherent differences between earbuds and iems/headphones. The biggest thing that comes to mind is transients. Transient impact seems a bit more pronounced on some iems and headphones but I find earbuds to be on par if not better in every other way. For instance, the gun clack on the hd800’s or jvc fdx-1 is quite pronounced whereas on my blur ultimate brokee, it’s toned down some but still there. It doesn’t seem to be just tuning, seems more inherent than that. Anyone have thoughts on this?


----------



## siderak

Just want to raise a virtual glass to the memory of Hungry Panda.
You are missed mate.


----------



## chinmie

FranQL said:


> Samsung Buds Live I have been tempted to buy them, they are really cheap now, the question is because of the performance of the microphone for phone calls, do you use it for calls?



the mic is one of my best TWS for calls. 
funnily enough, this Buds Live, along with Sabbat Vooplay and Vivo Neo (both with earbud foams) are my most used earbuds nowadays.. just can't beat the combined package in ease of use and sound


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah, it works for them but is very annoying when I try to search for "earbuds" in a store and find iems instead....



Haha when I search "earbuds" in local audio online shops, I usually get a ton of TWS earbuds and apple crap. Can only find legit earbuds on sites like aliexpress.

Seems in my country that earbuds are super niche and more than 90% of people on the street are using wireless gear.



siderak said:


> So I’ve been thinking about the inherent differences between earbuds and iems/headphones. The biggest thing that comes to mind is transients. Transient impact seems a bit more pronounced on some iems and headphones but I find earbuds to be on par if not better in every other way. For instance, the gun clack on the hd800’s or jvc fdx-1 is quite pronounced whereas on my blur ultimate brokee, it’s toned down some but still there. It doesn’t seem to be just tuning, seems more inherent than that. Anyone have thoughts on this?



Well for one, earbuds are outside the ear canal, so maybe it takes some times for transients to hit the eardrum, compared to IEMs which are inside the ear canal. As for headphones, I find a few also don't have as good transients as some IEMs for the same reason, though the caveat is I only tried cheap headphones (that's a rabbithole I can't step in yet, as the IEMs and earbuds one is already burning quite a hole in my wallet!)


----------



## siderak

baskingshark said:


> Haha when I search "earbuds" in local audio online shops, I usually get a ton of TWS earbuds and apple crap. Can only find legit earbuds on sites like aliexpress.
> 
> Seems in my country that earbuds are super niche and more than 90% of people on the street are using wireless gear.
> 
> ...


Really good point.


----------



## davjac84

FranQL said:


> It is a spiral, if you have already achieved the comfort and the appropriate fit, you are looking for a better sound ... but some of the variants get lost in that way, so do not buy more models for now.
> 
> On the way there are good models but they fail at something, like little bell, dendroaspis (I'll switch to copper wire soon and keep trying), etc.
> 
> ...


Can you give some thougts of dendroaspis compared to TO600? I love TO600 but have not yet tried dendroaspis


----------



## FranQL

chinmie said:


> the mic is one of my best TWS for calls.
> funnily enough, this Buds Live, along with Sabbat Vooplay and Vivo Neo (both with earbud foams) are my most used earbuds nowadays.. just can't beat the combined package in ease of use and sound


I want to update my Jabra elite active 65t that already has a lot of use and makes me empty in the ear, and since I am with buds lately I thought the buds live, it is in amazon for something more than € 100, it is a good price as long as I do his work.

Thanks!


----------



## davjac84

Serge Bernamej said:


> Anyone else in here impressed by the TO600?
> I do love it’s construction judging by the pics.
> Fin would be easy to place.


Sure am. They are amazing!


----------



## FranQL (May 14, 2021)

davjac84 said:


> Can you give some thougts of dendroaspis compared to TO600? I love TO600 but have not yet tried dendroaspis


You must assess to know if you can like Dendroaspis by reading the opinions and reviews of this thread, mine is an unreliable opinion.

TO600 has a less impressive stage than Dendroaspis Viridis, but with thicker notes, with more body, in all frequencies, more marked, hence the tone seems more complete, it is not so holographic, but in return there is more sound, TO600 has a good and atmospheric environment, but here Viridis is better.

Viridis, as you can read here, has a modest bass

Edit.: I prefer a full-bodied sound even if it is narrower (TO) to a broad but sterile sound in comparison (dendroaspis), so keep that in mind, it may not be your preference.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 3, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Looks like those buds are going to be quite expensive, maybe in the 300 usd area?
> 
> That PISLO bud though, damn that price lol. Otherwise, it is quite strange to me that it needs a dedicated amp for it, makes it look extremely similar to the True EST iems like the Shure KSE1200/1500.


Came across a few more pics of ArtVano's *PISLO PXVV *earbuds on the Chinese ERJI forum and the owner is using them directly plugged into his Cayin N8 and Cowon PL DAPs without the Clot Audio CPWoo! dedicated piezo-electric decoding amp also made by ArtVano (*FYI *- I have expanded, adding more relevant information, specs, prices, and pictures of the earbuds and decoding amp in my original PISLO PXVV *post here*).

For the life of me I am still unable to find official specs for this new model... namely, to confirm the impedance and sensitivity for both versions: Standard (~32Ω) and High-Impedance (~150Ω).



Spoiler: PISLO PXVV Pics


----------



## FranQL (May 14, 2021)

*PISLO PXVV: * design seems spectacular to me


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Came across a few more pics of the *PISLO PXVV *earbuds on the Chinese ERJI forum and the owner is using them directly plugged into his Cayin N8 and Cowon PL DAPs without the dedicated piezo-electric decoding amp made by Clot Audio (*FYI *- I have expanded, adding more relevant information, specs, prices, and pictures of the earbuds and decoding amp in my original PISLO PXVV *post here*).
> 
> For the life of me I am still unable to find official specs for this new model... namely, to confirm the impedance and sensitivity for both versions: Standard (~32Ω) and High-Impedance (~150Ω).
> 
> ...


It is really a pleasure to read your posts, there is so much useful information that it is not necessary to look at the official sites at all. You are CIA agent for earbuds and other audio gear  

About *PISLO buds. *Their design is so unique and beautiful. At first glance, one notices their comfort and the stabilized wood they use reveals their prestigious appearance


----------



## RikudouGoku

n00b said:


> it's even more important of a consideration for me considering some of these buds are like 120ohms! and since i use sony DAPs they tend to be a bit underpowered anyway even with balanced output


ah, with Sony DAP´s you probably want every juice you can squeeze out of it since they arent that powerful...


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 15, 2021)

siderak said:


> So I’ve been thinking about the inherent differences between earbuds and iems/headphones. The biggest thing that comes to mind is transients. Transient impact seems a bit more pronounced on some iems and headphones but I find earbuds to be on par if not better in every other way. For instance, the gun clack on the hd800’s or jvc fdx-1 is quite pronounced whereas on my blur ultimate brokee, it’s toned down some but still there. It doesn’t seem to be just tuning, seems more inherent than that. Anyone have thoughts on this?


Due to their lighter diaphragms (responding more quickly and thus moving air faster) and their open-design coupled with the physical placement just outside the ear canal (allowing more air to be moved by the driver before entry into the ear canal) most earbuds do seem to offer excellent (fast) transient response that is both clear and tightly detailed (e.g. the clarity and accurate timbre of string instruments). But yes I do agree that earbuds can not compete in the "impact" category when compared to either larger transducer headphones or the sealed chamber nature of IEMs... they are simply too small to create that "slam" effect.


----------



## baskingshark (May 14, 2021)

Bought 2 earbuds and received them in the mail today. The FAAEAL Rosemary from the 5/5 Shopee sale, and the Yincrow RW-2000 I bought from a second hand seller.





First up, the Rosemary. Considering it is 150 ohms, it can be driven from a smartphone or lower powered source, but the sound is not good. With amping, dynamics and tonality and microdetails improves, so ideally only get it if one has an amp on hand. The cable is not detachable, but it is well braided and has some nylon like material on it, so there's minimal microphonics.

This is an L shaped basshead set. Tremendous jawrattling midbass thump, subbass is extended, but like other buds, not as deep in the subbass as per IEMs in general. Treble is rolled off early. Imaging, instrument separation and details are not bad, but soundstage can sound a tinge compressed. The midbass quantity is so copious it bleeds quite a lot into the lower mids and adds a lot of warmth, but some may not like the "veiled" effect as such. When amped, the bass is surprisingly agile for a set with so much bass quantity, but the bass bleed does obscure some bass details.

Trebleheads best look elsewhere, but the Rosemary is non fatiguing and suited for bassheads. It kinda reminds me of the Earbuds Anonymous set, another L shaped earbud, but the Rosemary is harder to drive and is not as hot in the upper mids. Technicalities are also better on the Rosemary, and it is cheaper, so would recommend the Rosemary as an entry level basshead set over the Earbuds Anonymous, which is quite anonymous sounding as per its namesake.









Next up, the Yincrow RW-2000.

This is a great neutral set with some midbass boost. Superb tonality and timbre. No harsh peaks, very smooth and refined tuning. Fits my preferred tuning curve to a Tee, maybe only if it could have a tinge more subbass quantity (that's not to say it doesn't have subass, it actually has quite great subbass extension for a earbud). Technicalities are as per a TOTL bud, approaching IEMs in technicalities even, but having a superb soundstage that trounces most IEMs.

It's detachable too, which a lot of TOTL earbuds cannot claim to be haha. Can be worn cable down or up as per the SMABAT type earbuds. The RW-2000's midbass bleeds a bit though, but that is a small nitpick. It isn't as bass lite and shouty in the upper mids as the NiceHCK EBX21. I really like this set, maybe I'm still in the honeyphase, but it is a keeper for me, I would classify it in the TOTL segment for earbuds.


----------



## digititus

baskingshark said:


> It's detachable too, which a lot of TOTL earbuds cannot claim to be haha. Can be worn cable down or up as per the SMABAT type earbuds. The RW-2000's midbass bleeds a bit though, but that is a small nitpick. It isn't as bass lite and shouty in the upper mids as the NiceHCK EBX21. I really like this set, maybe I'm still in the honeyphase, but it is a keeper for me, I would classify it in the TOTL segment for earbuds.


But is it better than the Smabat ST10s Gold? That's the comparison I'd like to hear.


----------



## baskingshark

digititus said:


> But is it better than the Smabat ST10s Gold? That's the comparison I'd like to hear.



I think the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold has more subbass extension and quantity, but it is a bit shouty in the 3 kHz region (especially if no full foams are used).

From brief listening, I think the RW-2000 loses in subbass, but in mids and treble and technicalities, the RW-2000 wins. RW-2000 is also much easier to drive than the Black Gold. I'd be doing some further A/B testing over the next few days to confirm this, but those are my brief impressions.


----------



## 1clearhead

povidlo said:


> Looking forward to your impressions!
> 
> And comparison to EP09


Sure! Once I receive the 1MORE E1008, I will definitely show my impressions after a week of burning them in. It is going to be an interesting battle!

*JCALLY EP09 Beryllium drivers* -VS- *1MORE E1008 DUAL hybrid drivers*



-Clear


----------



## furyossa (May 14, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> I think the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold has more subbass extension and quantity, but it is a bit shouty in the 3 kHz region (especially if no full foams are used).
> 
> From brief listening, I think the RW-2000 loses in subbass, but in mids and treble and technicalities, the RW-2000 wins. RW-2000 is also much easier to drive than the Black Gold. I'd be doing some further A/B testing over the next few days to confirm this, but those are my brief impressions.


thanks for a very extensive comparison 


1clearhead said:


> Sure! Once I receive the 1MORE E1008, I will definitely show my impressions after a week of burning them in. It is going to be an interesting battle!
> 
> *JCALLY EP09 Beryllium drivers* -VS- *1MORE E1008 DUAL hybrid drivers*


I will love to see the graphs for both battles  of course if possible


----------



## Сomrade

baskingshark said:


> From brief listening, I think the RW-2000 loses in subbass,


I have a bass + 10-15% higher when I wear it behind my ear.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Yincrow RW-2000 review is up: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/yincrow-rw-2000.25158/reviews#review-25864

Rank: S 

My second favorite bud right now (after the Moondrop Chaconne). And I will probably order the K´s Bell-WE AND the K´s Samsara K300...


----------



## 1clearhead

furyossa said:


> I will love to see the graphs for both battles  of course if possible


I don't have the tools for FR Graphs.  ...But, I'll write some constructive detailed impressions! 

-Clear


----------



## RikudouGoku

Oh, forgot to share this poll here: https://www.strawpoll.me/45267953

Its about how many cores people prefer in a cable. Although, I realized that it might have been better to also include what transducer they are using the cable with. As with buds, I would take 2 cores while with iem, I prefer 4 or 6 core cables...


----------



## Serge Bernamej

furyossa said:


> Only the first 2-3 words meter in any label on Ali, the rest of the text is there to make it easier to find during the search, similar to tags


Have you noticed that so many ordinary IEMs (anare being called noise cancelling


FranQL said:


> You must assess to know if you can like Dendroaspis by reading the opinions and reviews of this thread, mine is an unreliable opinion.
> 
> TO600 has a less impressive stage than Dendroaspis Viridis, but with thicker notes, with more body, in all frequencies, more marked, hence the tone seems more complete, it is not so holographic, but in return there is more sound, TO600 has a good and atmospheric environment, but here Viridis is better.
> 
> ...


h0w about the harshness and highs on the TO600? From what you
 describing it seems good and warm but I read other views.


----------



## FranQL

Serge Bernamej said:


> h0w about the harshness and highs on the TO600? From what you
> describing it seems good and warm but I read other views.



It's not warm, that's for sure.

But tiring ups and downs, at least in my unit, no, before I mentioned that for my taste I would like the highs to be more relaxed, and some sub-bass with more definition. But it's not a bud that causes me fatigue, I don't like shiny headphones and TO600 is out of that group.

As an example a moondrop SSR can not stand it even 5 minutes.


----------



## digititus

Сomrade said:


> I have a bass + 10-15% higher when I wear it behind my ear.


Soglasen tovarishch!


----------



## Сomrade

Proletarians of all countries, unite!
28 September 1941 Birmingham:


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Well... bad news folks the right channel on my *Ks Bell-Ti 120Ω* is going... gone! 🤮
It started going out intermittently earlier today (either softening in volume and/or totally turning off) and it would correct if I wiggled and/or disconnected the plug. I thought it might be due to a bad adapter cable so I changed it with another one with the same results.
I think believe the wiring of the right driver was poorly soldered as now the right channel isn't working at all.


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Well... bad news folks the right channel on my *Ks Bell-Ti 120Ω* is going... gone! 🤮
> It started going out intermittently earlier today (either softening in volume and/or totally turning off) and it would correct if I wiggled and/or disconnected the plug. I thought it might be due to a bad adapter cable so I changed it with another one with the same results.
> I think believe the wiring of the right driver was poorly soldered as now the right channel isn't working at all.


oh god....this is why we need replaceable cables.....


----------



## FranQL

WoodyLuvr said:


> Well... bad news folks the right channel on my *Ks Bell-Ti 120Ω* is going... gone! 🤮
> It started going out intermittently earlier today (either softening in volume and/or totally turning off) and it would correct if I wiggled and/or disconnected the plug. I thought it might be due to a bad adapter cable so I changed it with another one with the same results.
> I think believe the wiring of the right driver was poorly soldered as now the right channel isn't working at all.


can you do something with the guarantee?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 15, 2021)

FranQL said:


> can you do something with the guarantee?


Yes, I definitely could but as I bought them from my buddy, Jim @ NiceHCK, I rather not hit him with this big headache at the moment... business is a critical point for him at the moment and this would hurt him badly in the wallet as he would have to cover the cost 100%. One of the dangers of selling mainland China brands as a dealer and buying as a customer.

At least I got a solid three (3) months and four (4) days of good use out of them !


----------



## n00b

WoodyLuvr said:


> Well... bad news folks the right channel on my *Ks Bell-Ti 120Ω* is going... gone! 🤮
> It started going out intermittently earlier today (either softening in volume and/or totally turning off) and it would correct if I wiggled and/or disconnected the plug. I thought it might be due to a bad adapter cable so I changed it with another one with the same results.
> I think believe the wiring of the right driver was poorly soldered as now the right channel isn't working at all.


F… is it easy to access the driver without damaging the shell? This is one of the main reasons I ponied up for EBX21s despite owning ME80s, just because of the cable.
but man, that's especially disappointing given how expensive the bell-ti's are. i'm really keen to try them out too but this is giving me pause

re: cores, 4 or 8 is good for me, 16 can get too ropey and heavy.


----------



## FranQL

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, I definitely could but as I bought them from my buddy, Jim @ NiceHCK, I rather not hit him with this big headache at the moment... business is a critical point for him at the moment and this would hurt him badly in the wallet as he would have to cover the cost 100%. One of the dangers of selling mainland China brands as a dealer and buying as a customer.
> 
> At least I got a solid three (3) months of daily use out of them !


Well, look at it on the good side, you will have to spend more time on some bud that will be sad in your box of stamps.


----------



## RikudouGoku

n00b said:


> re: cores, 4 or 8 is good for me, 16 can get too ropey and heavy.


Damn, I thought bud users would prefer less cores since that would be lighter.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 14, 2021)

n00b said:


> F… is it easy to access the driver without damaging the shell? This is one of the main reasons I ponied up for EBX21s despite owning ME80s, just because of the cable.
> but man, that's especially disappointing given how expensive the bell-ti's are. i'm really keen to try them out too but this is giving me pause


My aging eyes and shaky hands are no longer capable of such audiophile micro-surgery... the last time I attempted such an operation I completely destroyed my beloved PureSounds PS100-600S "Pop" Edition 600Ω earbuds


----------



## digititus (May 14, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> My aging eyes and shaky hands are no longer capable of such audiophile micro-surgery... the last time I attempted such an operation I completely destroyed my beloved PureSounds PS100-600S "Pop" Edition 600Ω earbuds


If it's a bad solder job, it's an easy fix. Find a local workshop who can handle this. Shouldn't be a problem.
Maybe open them up and get a photo. Send it to Ksearphones and ask them for help


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 14, 2021)

digititus said:


> If it's a bad solder job, it's an easy fix. Find a local workshop who can handle this. Shouldn't be a problem.


Exactly why I think I will simply donate them... mailing to a fellow comrade who loves fiddling with and re-cabling earbuds and has the patience, eyes, and skilled steady hands to do it.


----------



## RikudouGoku

(looks quite similar to the RW-2000)






https://hifigo.com/blogs/news/astro...edition-latest-flagship-earbuds-available-now

That price though...any takers?


----------



## n00b

WoodyLuvr said:


> Exactly why I think I will simply donate them... mailing to a fellow comrade who loves fiddling with and re-cabling earbuds and has the patience, eyes, and skilled steady hands to do it.


hi its me, your fellow comrade

i hope whoever winds up with them can bring them back to life! and if you actually didnt have anyone in mind i would gladly give it a shot 👀


----------



## davjac84

FranQL said:


> You must assess to know if you can like Dendroaspis by reading the opinions and reviews of this thread, mine is an unreliable opinion.
> 
> TO600 has a less impressive stage than Dendroaspis Viridis, but with thicker notes, with more body, in all frequencies, more marked, hence the tone seems more complete, it is not so holographic, but in return there is more sound, TO600 has a good and atmospheric environment, but here Viridis is better.
> 
> ...


Thanks! The first comparison of these two buds i have seen. 
It sounds that I will not invest in Viridis, I will await Tonekings next buds (whenever that will be) 😁
Me too prefer more full-bodied sound.


----------



## lucasbatista2408

today I just got my first earbud, the kbear Stellar, I do own lots of iems, but I wanted to try an earbud, and I'm loving it so far. what would be a direct upgrade to the stellar? also, is there any tutorial for removable cable?


----------



## davjac84

Serge Bernamej said:


> Have you noticed that so many ordinary IEMs (anare being called noise cancelling
> 
> h0w about the harshness and highs on the TO600? From what you
> describing it seems good and warm but I read other views.


I don't find TO600 harsh at all.


----------



## cappuchino

lucasbatista2408 said:


> today I just got my first earbud, the kbear Stellar, I do own lots of iems, but I wanted to try an earbud, and I'm loving it so far. what would be a direct upgrade to the stellar? also, is there any tutorial for removable cable?


Stellar is awesome! For an upgrade, as long as it's described as a V-shape, you're good.

Search on Youtube "earbud MMCX mod." 😄


----------



## siderak

WoodyLuvr said:


> Due to their lighter diaphragms (responding more quickly and thus moving air faster) and their open-design coupled with the physical placement just outside the ear canal (allowing more air to be moved by the driver before entry into the ear canal) most earbuds do seem to offer excellent (fast) transient response that is both clear and tightly detailed (e.g. the clarity and accurate timbre of string instruments). But yes I do agree that earbuds can not compete in the "impact" category when comparted to either larger transducer headphones or the sealed chamber nature of IEMs... they are simply too small to create that "slam" effect.


Thx! That’s really informative. Exactly as you put it too. I don’t feel it’s about clarity. I’m talking only about that impact.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 15, 2021)

siderak said:


> Thx! That’s really informative. Exactly as you put it too. I don’t feel it’s about clarity. I’m talking only about that impact.


Not meaning to derail this thread, by too much, I would like to offer a quick aside that the best presentation of gun and cannon fire that I ever did hear was from a minimalist 2.1 speaker system composed of a pair of German-made Acappella horn speakers (driven by balanced monoblocks) and a giant custom-made (and rather exotic) open-baffle subwoofer. The cannon fire in Tchaikovsky's "1812 Overture" was particularly resolute! I quickly discovered why many prefer horned speakers for that extra punch, slam, and impactful dynamics especially required of live music.

One of the reasons why Aiwa & Sony (and a few others) were so determined to mimic horn and pipe (flute) acoustics in their earbuds by incorporating resonator pipes, ducts, and tubes back in the Golden Age of Earbuds.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

n00b said:


> hi its me, your fellow comrade
> 
> i hope whoever winds up with them can bring them back to life! and if you actually didnt have anyone in mind i would gladly give it a shot 👀


 You are third on the list. Awaiting to hear from no.1 and then no. 2 if they will accept the donation or not.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Well, I went on a shopping spree. Ordered both the K´s Bell-WE (bass version) and the Samsara K300.


----------



## RikudouGoku

@WoodyLuvr btw do you know the price the upcoming Bell-ti plus? Apparently the store I bought the 2 buds above, told me that K has a new model coming out that will cost 5000 RMB (which I assume is the bell-ti plus). That puts it at like...770 usd lol.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> (looks quite similar to the RW-2000)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


_looks quite similar to the RW-2000_
Maybe if you look at them from a distance of 10 meters__
The shell has a much more advanced vent system than the RW-2000 and the cavity size is much larger.
On the back of the shell you can see *micro porous filter* which is invented (I think) by Bowers & Wilkins.
They used a mesh of tiny steel balls which acts as a sonic diffuser, enhancing clarity and spatial detail.
B&W C5 Series 2 model use this tech.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Damn, I thought bud users would prefer less cores since that would be lighter.


4 core is enough for any buds but we often see cables that use thick wires so such cables are much heavier even than a 16core cable.
So 4-core is a good option when it comes to earbuds with a fixed cable and when worn upright
6-core and 8-core are good option when there is a detachable connection (MMCX, 2-Pin etc.) and for wearing over the ears, 
and also 16-core but I still think it is overkill for buds


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> _looks quite similar to the RW-2000_
> Maybe if you look at them from a distance of 10 meters__
> The shell has a much more advanced vent system than the RW-2000 and the cavity size is much larger.
> On the back of the shell you can see *micro porous filter* which is invented (I think) by Bowers & Wilkins.
> ...


For just over € 100 you can try this technology, this is a case where I am sure the price is worth it. Another different thing is to see what this new limited edition has to contribute so that it costs a little more than 3 times the price of the standard version that has been on the market for years.


----------



## FranQL (May 15, 2021)

furyossa said:


> 4 core is enough for any buds but we often see cables that use thick wires so such cables are much heavier even than a 16core cable.
> So 4-core is a good option when it comes to earbuds with a fixed cable and when worn upright
> 6-core and 8-core are good option when there is a detachable connection (MMCX, 2-Pin etc.) and for wearing over the ears,
> and also 16-core but I still think it is overkill for buds


There is everything, I have 8 core goddess that is ridiculously fine, there is also a niceHCK 24 core that is thin and light. On the other hand I have a Y***O cable that with 8 cores is as fat as a climbing rope ...


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> @WoodyLuvr btw do you know the price the upcoming Bell-ti plus? Apparently the store I bought the 2 buds above, told me that K has a new model coming out that will cost 5000 RMB (which I assume is the bell-ti plus). That puts it at like...770 usd lol.


Yes, that is the price I heard for the new Plus model.


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, that is the price I heard for the new Plus model.


oh boy lol.

So its a 770 usd bud without a replaceable cable?  🤦‍♂️


----------



## FranQL (May 15, 2021)

From time to time I like to do some reflection, this time looking at the new models.

Just to know what you guys think, especially the people who have been buying buds for years.

This is a business, and although I am not the smartest in the world I know how it works, but I make distinctions when making a purchase in three categories (the fourth is out of what I can spend on this hobby).

1. Minimal effort, I use a clone casing, I put a special super mega controller, in some cases I put a fancy cable and I sell them at a gold price (taking into account the cost of producing them) .

2. Innovative design, new resonance acoustic housings, own housing construction (there are some that are amazing), interchangeable cables, etc. That is, there is work behind them to be different or really new. This is my favorite, they are also models that are maintained over time and according to their tuning there are criticisms of all kinds.

3. These could fall into the previous category, as they have all the ingredients, but it is added that they take out models every three / six months, I would call them hype category, they are all wonderful for critics, but the new model is coming out (when I'm surely it has not been possible to listen to the previous one) and they go into oblivion. Investing in these is something I never do, because in a few weeks there will be a better new model, and the current one will cost half the price.

4. TOLT, it always exists, but ... suddenly, there are not many? I hope they are worth it for the price, but, it is a car to which the brands want to go up, it is interesting, but .... in the midfi of the buds I already find enough quality to think about what these new models can offer .

I do not put marks or examples, everyone can see it in their own way.


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> From time to time I like to do some reflection, this time looking at the new models.
> 
> Just to know what you guys think, especially the people who have been buying buds for years.
> 
> ...


 #2 categorie


----------



## Tapir Tost (May 15, 2021)

So basically what's the best earbud to buy under 30$? Make it under 50$ if there's something drastically better for the few extra bucks. Have seen the reviews but many are conflicting.
Edit: I don't care about sub-bass, i like my details and clear mids.


----------



## n00b

bro i am struggling to understand the pricing on some of these TOTL earbuds -- $770 without some basic QoL features like goku mentioned? I thought my ebx21 were pricey (i got them used from a user here) but with people touting them as top of the line, i figured around $200 is not so much to pay for the best available in this format. do bell-ti or similar compete with IEMs or headphones in their respective TOTL range, like in the kilobuck bracket or what? I personally consider blessing 2 dusk IEMs endgame/good for me, and at $330 i can stomach that before deep diminishing returns. I've gotten great performance out of sub-$50 buds, and am hesitant to pay past $400 for anything in this hobby because of the diminishing returns. how/where does stuff in the 500, 800 USD tier compare here? is that even a fair comparison / question you can answer??


----------



## furyossa

Tapir Tost said:


> So basically what's the best earbud to buy under 30$? Make it under 50$ if there's something drastically better for the few extra bucks. Have seen the reviews but many are conflicting.
> Edit: I don't care about sub-bass, i like my details and clear mids.


There are many good buds below $50. You have my answer in PM.


----------



## 0b0d0

Hello every one,
Been lurking in here for quite a while. Thanks to this community for having me bought some great pieces like the LZ-A4 back in the day when i didn't know earbuds were still a thing. They're my go to form-factor choice since then.
Got things like the  EBX, TG - 38S, RW-9, X6, Aurvana Air. Love those all in a way or more. I'm far from being knowledgeable enough to begin a discussion with you lot, and my English is quite lacking but had to register to warn you not to blindly rush to the Jcally EP09.
At 30€, this is the worst buy i've made in audio for quite a while. Like the Jc10, in fact, i should have been more careful. Albeit being better in some areas, they sound with the same kind of veil.
Sorry for not being able to be more precise.
Thx again for the good recommendations to a lot of you. (And an another special thank you to Mr. Bernamej).


----------



## axhng (May 15, 2021)

These arrived a few days back. So yeah, my hands got a little too itchy and decided to order one. lol. here are some quick thoughts on it.



Spoiler



They are a little chunkier than I thought in terms of how thick they are compared to like ME80 or MX500 shells, so it's less stable in my ears compared to those. It is a bit more stable when worn over ear instead of cable down, but my personal preference is for cable down. Diameter seems about the same as MX500.

Fairly basic packaging though. Only 1 pair of thin black full foams included. Yes. Just 1 pair. 

Anyway cable feels fairly smooth and not too heavy which is good. It is a bit wiggly though, maybe from being coiled in the box for too long? Not sure if it will become a bit softer with more use, but for now, I think Nicehck ME80 cable still feels nicer.

Sound wise, I think it's probably a slightly warm neutral-ish tuning? At least if I take the ME80 as being the neutral. Bass doesn't have that much reach, quantity is about the same as ME80 to my ears, but is more focussed in the mid-bass region, and sounds a tiny bit tighter to me. Mids are forward in the mix and have good details and body. I think it has a bit more energy in the 1Khz region and it might sound a little honky for some folks. I think it can sometimes sound a tiny bit congested to me in busier tracks, but it's not too bad still. There is less upper mids compared to ME80 i think, but still enough for female vocals to not sound too dull. Treble is decently extended, but not the most elevated. I think something like the ME80 has a bit more energy above 10Khz which gives it an airier sound.

Soundstage is pretty standard for earbuds. Details are okay too I guess, since earbuds normally won't be that detailed anyway compared to in-ears. Overall still a decent listening experience to me, though not my favourite in terms of fit. Sound wise it's a mixed bag for me. I think it is technically quite capable, and is something that I can listen too, but the tuning is just neither here nor there for me in terms of my personal preference. If i wanted something more neutral sounding I would just use my ME80, and if I want something warmer with deeper bass I will just use my Aurvana Air. But if I had neither of those, I'll probably be happy with how these sound.

It's around 34 SGD for me (~25.50 USD) on shopee since i got it a bit cheaper with some coupons, and at that price, it's not the greatest value for money i guess considering it was around 18 SGD for the nicehck ME80, which i still prefer more. And at that price point, I would personally just get the TRN TA1 instead. Those are not earbuds of course, but still a pair of earphones that I really enjoy using.


----------



## uneri (Jun 24, 2021)

‎


----------



## 1clearhead (May 16, 2021)

Tapir Tost said:


> So basically what's the best earbud to buy under 30$? Make it under 50$ if there's something drastically better for the few extra bucks. Have seen the reviews but many are conflicting.
> Edit: I don't care about sub-bass, i like my details and clear mids.


IMHO: *JCALLY EP09

*

Awesome hi-end details, incredible life-like MID's, excellent resolution, quick punchy and broad bass, and awesome detachable silver cables.

Simply put, you get a lot of quality for a whole lot less when compared to expensive models that doesn't match up to their price.

PS. Currently using them with sponge cover that came with the package for a good seal.

-Clear


----------



## 1clearhead (May 16, 2021)

uneri said:


> I've had the JCALLY EP09 for a few months now, so I'll just chime in with some of my thoughts too.
> 
> Sound signature wise, I would describe it as warm and smooth with dark treble.
> The mids are the real focus, very thick, full sounding with nice weight and *zero fatigue*.
> ...


That's good to know! Especially knowing that the Fiio EM5 still cost around $310 US dollars today! 
So, that makes the JCALLY EP09 a "no brainer" to own for under $50 US dollars! 

Thanks for your thoughts!

-Clear


----------



## 1clearhead

Need help!

If I already own the Yincrow W6 and RW-9, is it worth checking out the FAAEAL iris?

I heard so many positive results of "iris" buds, but I'm not looking for a side-grade.

Anyone could chime in!...Thanks in advance!

-Clear


----------



## slex (May 16, 2021)

Tapir Tost said:


> So basically what's the best earbud to buy under 30$? Make it under 50$ if there's something drastically better for the few extra bucks. Have seen the reviews but many are conflicting.
> Edit: I don't care about sub-bass, i like my details and clear mids.


How about 15.4mm pure Beryllium!Just ordered the same at US$33 from another store. confirm using driver below by seller.


----------



## FranQL (May 16, 2021)

@axhng @0b0d0 wow, two Creative aurvana air users, on the same page, that is by chance. This bud is a great curiosity for me, even though I am 14 years old.


----------



## furyossa (May 16, 2021)

slex said:


> How about 15.4mm pure Beryllium!Just ordered the same at US$33 from another store. confirm using driver below by seller.


Pure beryllium No man, that is DIY beryllium coated driver.
You can read meny impressions on DIY Earbuds thread.
See my inventory, there are 3 examples that I try with this driver
BTW...It's very good driver.


----------



## slex

furyossa said:


> Pure beryllium No man, that is DIY beryllium coated driver.
> You can read meny impressions on DIY Earbuds thread,
> See my inventory, there are 3 examples that I try with this driver
> BTW...It's very good driver.


🤣15.4mm Pure BE, that does not equate with price. Im glad you find it good😁


----------



## Abu144Hz

Hey guys my Nicehck b40s broke from destroying the diaphragm by accidentally burning it. They're my favourite pair, so im kind of sad. What is a direct upgrade/sidegrade to it? I want something that has a similar sound sig to it. Preferably with a bit more sparkle in the treble. Or should I just buy another pair of them?


----------



## 0b0d0

> @axhng   @0b0d0 wow, two Creative aurvana air users, on the same page, that is by chance. This bud is a great curiosity for me, even though I am 14 years old.


Ola, FranQL, i'd like to elaborate on the Aurvana Air, but as you may have understand, i got quite some work to do before i can tell anyone more than " This i like, that i don't. " about audio. I would would go as far as risking a comment about this one, like maybe it's as "thick" as i can have my buds nowadays. Soft, but airy enough, maybe?

Thanks everyone for the input on the EP09, i will push my self to put it in my rotation for a bit, to try to better understand this phenomenon.
But i have to admit, right know, it feels a little bit like putting my head inside a  porous fishbowl when listening to those after any of my other buds, and that is despite their nice richness.
A bit like when i tried a pal's Astro gaming set after my SHP9500 back in the day. (The richness, there was none, then.  )

Anyway, happy for those who got them and love them.


----------



## baskingshark (May 16, 2021)

0b0d0 said:


> Ola, FranQL, i'd like to elaborate on the Aurvana Air, but as you may have understand, i got quite some work to do before i can tell anyone more than " This i like, that i don't. " about audio. I would would go as far as risking a comment about this one, like maybe it's as "thick" as i can have my buds nowadays. Soft, but airy enough, maybe?
> 
> Thanks everyone for the input on the EP09, i will push my self to put it in my rotation for a bit, to try to better understand this phenomenon.
> But i have to admit, right know, it feels a little bit like putting my head inside a  porous fishbowl when listening to those after any of my other buds, and that is despite their nice richness.
> ...



If u find a earbud very veiled/thick, an option is to take out the full foams and use it without foams or with a donut foam or with some silicone cover thingy.
Another option is to pair the earbud with brighter/more analytical sources.


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> If u find a earbud very veiled/thick, an option is to take out the full foams and use it without foams or with a donut foam or with some silicone cover thingy.
> Another option is to pair the earbud with brighter/more analytical sources.


Or open it and check what's going on inside 
@0b0d0 ... By changing filters on the back of the driver, and modding inner space of the shell, you can affect the sound more than changing foams from outside.
Of course, I suggest this only if you have experience with DIY stuffs


----------



## 0b0d0 (May 16, 2021)

Thanks to the both of you, Yes i usually use donuts i got with my buds or those super large cells ones i bought. And about sources, yes i should have finally bought something decent. PC motherboard or an old Turtle beach DSS2 on console...
Opening them to see whats going on inside... Hmmmm... you're talking to a 40+ guy with long time anger management issues and hands who met their fair-share of walls, merely able to handle a game-pad in winter.
I will first  try to learn to talk the hi-fi, furyossa.  But i like the idea, anyway, i'll have a look into that since i got no clue on what it takes. Thanks again.


----------



## Alteria

1clearhead said:


> Need help!
> 
> If I already own the Yincrow W6 and RW-9, is it worth checking out the FAAEAL iris?
> 
> ...


I've bought the FAAEAL Iris CE and it's awful. Not sure if I got a faulty one but the Vido sounds way better than it.


----------



## FranQL

365 ohm version is now available in AE ...


----------



## aspire5550

Hi all, I have been using IEMs all these while and wanted to try earbuds. 
Been using BLON BL-03 and KZ DQ6. 

Have a old TY HI-Z 32ohm that I bought many years back. Not sure how I feel about it, the foam cushions have deteriorate and I'm using them without cushions or silicon for now. 

As I'm not too familiar with buds, may I know if it is required to have some sort of cushions or sillicons for earbuds to get some form of "sealing" like how we rely heavily on IEMs?

Also, any recommendations around $20 and $50 range?  looking for 2 pairs preferably these price range to see if I like earbuds.
Want to get my intro to earbuds, so fire your recommendation my way! 
(Don't mind DIY options as I'm ok with DIY)

Thanks.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

FranQL said:


> 365 ohm version is now available in AE ...


That price makes it very tempting to want to order either the 275Ω or 365Ω version of the *PT*


----------



## Ronion

Alteria said:


> I've bought the FAAEAL Iris CE and it's awful. Not sure if I got a faulty one but the Vido sounds way better than it.


The FAAEEAL Iris is just okay.  The FAAEEAL Snow-Lotus is an improvement in all aspects of sound reproduction.  For roughly the same cost, I’m not sure why they make both or how the Iris remains popular.


----------



## RikudouGoku

aspire5550 said:


> Hi all, I have been using IEMs all these while and wanted to try earbuds.
> Been using BLON BL-03 and KZ DQ6.
> 
> Have a old TY HI-Z 32ohm that I bought many years back. Not sure how I feel about it, the foam cushions have deteriorate and I'm using them without cushions or silicon for now.
> ...


If you like the Blon 03, you will love the Yincrow X6. 

Personally foams helps the fit a lot for me, so for me they are almost mandatory. But its not mandatory like tips are for iems though.


----------



## RikudouGoku

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/jEBgndPH97cAA8kDpPaA9Q


----------



## WoodyLuvr

@RikudouGoku
The higher price tag of the Bell-Ti PLUS is starting to make a little more sense after seeing those last two photos. The adjustable TRRS Balanced plug is a great idea.


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> @RikudouGoku
> The higher price tag of the Bell-Ti PLUS is starting to make a little more sense after seeing those last two photos. The adjustable TRRS Balanced plug is a great idea.


Yeah, modular cables are nice. But still a big deal breaker that it doesnt have a replaceable cable....


----------



## furyossa (May 17, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah, modular cables are nice. But still a big deal breaker that it doesnt have a replaceable cable....





WoodyLuvr said:


> @RikudouGoku
> The higher price tag of the Bell-Ti PLUS is starting to make a little more sense after seeing those last two photos. The adjustable TRRS Balanced plug is a great idea.


Not only that, modular cables are no longer a rarity.
The cables are somewhere around $100 (I don't count DUNU HULK cable since it's massive and not for earbuds)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32961475211.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002400172813.html

Also, there are a lot of variants of plugs
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32993028884.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000722653777.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32921422302.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32919553180.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000858622753.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002172122667.html


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Not only that, modular cable modular cables are no longer a rarity.
> The cables are somewhere around $100 (I don't count DUNU HULK cable since it's massive and not for earbuds)
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32961475211.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002400172813.html
> ...


Yeah, so its not that big of a deal to have it on a bud that will be over 770 usd....


----------



## furyossa

Yup. $200-$300 worth cable on earbuds   Is it worth it at all?
Now ask yourself what you will do when the mini XLR connection is damaged during the plug replacement because that is the only critical point.
You need to cut the cable and bye all parts because they use unique plugs


----------



## RikudouGoku




----------



## furyossa (May 17, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


>


_*A Thing of Beauty*_
I see they use this adapter in package https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32890750282.html


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 17, 2021)

I messaged ArtVano asking for a complete breakdown including specs for all their PISLO earbud models since 2018... let's see if and how long that will take to receive a detailed response back. Unfortunately, ArtVano's IEMs and earbuds headphone divisions (OTATO and PISLO respectively) are notoriously unresponsive and rarely communicate whereas their hardware division (Clot Audio) is quite excellent in marketing; answering questions; and engaging the audiophile community.


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> No solo eso, los cables modulares de cable modular ya no son una rareza.
> Los cables cuestan alrededor de $ 100 (no cuento el cable DUNU HULK ya que es masivo y no para auriculares)


moondrop has modular cable for € 50, that is, there are already many manufacturers that offer them.


----------



## RikudouGoku




----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


>


They are the only model I have known for a long time, but I don't know how they sound. I like their original design and I think they achieve a good fit with this shape.
I only tried their ear tips, they affect the sound a lot, but not always in a positive way
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001950563898.html


----------



## furyossa (May 17, 2021)

FranQL said:


> moondrop has modular cable for € 50, that is, there are already many manufacturers that offer them.


Great example. The quality of this cable is quite sufficient for any model of earbuds. The simpler, the better
No need for "plus", "pro", "women poison" and other suffixes


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 18, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Great example. The quality of this cable is quite sufficient for any model of earbuds. The simpler, the better
> No need for "plus", "pro", "women poison" and other suffixes


One culprit of grandiose verbiage (besides over-zealous sales marketing strategies) is simply _language conflict_.

Being one of the last true remnants of the ancient Chinese culture that emphasizes *artistic conception* (*神*), Chinese languages are expressive and unfortunately sometimes translate rather awkwardly into English due to their heavy use of free/separate morphemes. Simply put, Chinese expressions can/may come across as being corny and flowery, especially in regards to adjectives, as well as attributive and descriptive nouns. Also, it is important to note that many Chinese characters do hold deeper, more complex meanings (and even stories) that are far too difficult and untimely to translate fully.


----------



## rprodrigues (May 17, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah, so its not that big of a deal to have it on a bud that will be over 770 usd....


Well... isn't a full headphone a better choice at this price level?

I just can't see myself spending such an amount in a set of earbud/iems. I know it may be just me, but I'd rather grab a Focal Elex at $700.

It seems the prices are going crazy this season.


----------



## RikudouGoku

rprodrigues said:


> Well... isn't a full headphone a better choice at this price level?
> 
> I just can't see myself spending such an amount in a set of earbud/iems. I know it may be just me, but I'd rather grab a Focal Elex at $700.
> 
> It seems the prices are going crazy this season.


I guess I agree, but I take iems over headphones. None of the headphones I have heard impress nor give me as much enjoyment as iems and even buds do....


IMO:

iems > earbuds > headphones


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> One culprit of this seemingly overuse of model descriptions (besides over-zealous sales marketing strategies) is simply language conflict.
> 
> Being one of the last true remnants of the ancient Chinese culture that emphasizes *artistic conception* (*神*), Chinese is an expressive language(s) which unfortunately sometimes translates rather awkwardly into English due to the heavy use of free/separate morphemes. Simply put, it can/may across as being corny and flowery, especially in regards to adjectives, as well as attributive and descriptive nouns. Also, it is important to note that many Chinese characters do hold deeper, more complex meanings (and even stories) that are far too difficult and untimely to translate fully.


I am familiar with this very well and I know that Chinese symbols have complex meanings. Also Google translate other languages very wrong. 
What I mean in the previous post is that, these days the suffixes "Pro" and "Plus" are more often used, and with them comes a drastic jump in price.


----------



## Сomrade

RikudouGoku said:


> None of the headphones I've heard are impressive


Have you tried the Sennheiser HD25? I am completely satisfied.
Smooth sound with a slight bias in the bass.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Сomrade said:


> Have you tried the Sennheiser HD25? I am completely satisfied.
> Smooth sound with a slight bias in the bass.


Here are the headphones I have ranked:


----------



## furyossa (May 17, 2021)

rprodrigues said:


> Well... isn't a full headphone a better choice at this price level?
> I just can't see myself spending such an amount in a set of earbud/iems. I know it may be just me, but I'd rather grab a Focal Elex at $700.
> It seems the prices are going crazy this season.


You are right and you are not the only one who thinks so


RikudouGoku said:


> I guess I agree, but I take iems over headphones. None of the headphones I have heard impress nor give me as much enjoyment as iems and even buds do....
> IMO: iems > earbuds > headphones


That is only personal preference. You like IEMs, @rprodrigues like headphone, someone will choose DAC/AMP device which is also fine.
Problem here is the value vs price.
Today I saw the question on Sennheise thread about new flagship IEM IE900
Question by @mclover : _*What makes them $1300 single driver dynamic phones?*_
Answer by @musicday :_* Unique own driver, research and development, made in Germany, one of the oldest and most reputable audio company in the world, just to name a few reasons*_.
Some smaller companies are trying to bring their prices closer to big brands, which is a very big risk.


----------



## furyossa

Сomrade said:


> Have you tried the Sennheiser HD25? I am completely satisfied.
> Smooth sound with a slight bias in the bass.


Yup. I own HD25 (2020 edition) and I like SQ but for me, that was not a purchase trigger but an amazing potential for modding.
This model is very durable, and no glue was used for any part but that's me


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Here are the headphones I have ranked:


Nice ranking and even better collection. I see that you really like KPH30i  Are you tired maybe this mod with GRADO pads for Koss KPH30i?


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Nice ranking and even better collection. I see that you really like KPH30i  Are you tired maybe this mod with GRADO pads for Koss KPH30i?



I tried the yaxi pads, but they are too big for me so they made the sound worse lol. I suspect the same will happen with grado pads.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Smabat has corrected their marketing literature... Super One it is!


----------



## furyossa (May 17, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Smabat has corrected their marketing literature... Super One it is!


What happened to NOE? I like NOE more, but this is more convenient. It's easier for the coming lineup : Super Two, Super Three etc. and of course flagship will be "SUPERFLY"


----------



## waynes world (May 17, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Nice ranking and even better collection. I see that you really like KPH30i  Are you tired maybe this mod with GRADO pads for Koss KPH30i?




+1!

For me, when not at my desk, I use earbuds 90% of the time, And when at my desk, it's headphones 90% of the time.

And as far as the mighty KPH30i's are concerned, it's one pair with the amusing looking grado pad mod for when at my desk, and another stock pair for when out and about.


----------



## n00b

are the new 8 million dollar bell-ti with modular termination supposed to be sonically better, or is it for all practical purposes the same as the onmyoji/black white version? i love titanium and all that, not twice as much as aluminum


----------



## RikudouGoku

n00b said:


> are the new 8 million dollar bell-ti with modular termination supposed to be sonically better, or is it for all practical purposes the same as the onmyoji/black white version? i love titanium and all that, not twice as much as aluminum


Its supposed to be for practical purposes, being able to switch out the SE plug to the balanced one when you need to and vice-versa.


----------



## n00b

oh yeah I get that, I could have phrased my question more clearly. Assuming the new Bell-Ti Plus and the Onmyoji are both using 3.5mm single ended, are the Bell-Ti supposed to 'sound better' or be an upgrade to the Onmyoji in terms of sound and technicalities, or is it mainly just better build quality (titanium and new cable vs aluminum and only one termination). I see there's an aliexpress sale coming up so I'm thinking about buying, but honestly it's probably better to keep waiting in this hobby.. haha


----------



## RikudouGoku

n00b said:


> oh yeah I get that, I could have phrased my question more clearly. Assuming the new Bell-Ti Plus and the Onmyoji are both using 3.5mm single ended, are the Bell-Ti supposed to 'sound better' or be an upgrade to the Onmyoji in terms of sound and technicalities, or is it mainly just better build quality (titanium and new cable vs aluminum and only one termination). I see there's an aliexpress sale coming up so I'm thinking about buying, but honestly it's probably better to keep waiting in this hobby.. haha


It is likely (hopefully) to be better, but the cable has nothing to do with that.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

furyossa said:


> What happened to NOE? I like NOE more, but this is more convenient. It's easier for the coming lineup : Super Two, Super Three etc. and of course flagship will be "SUPERFLY"


One correct, nOe it's a typo


----------



## RikudouGoku

Looks like a new bud from Tin Hifi (their first?), credits to @paulwasabii for finding this.


----------



## james444 (May 18, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Very confusing description on the Rose Maria 2. Is it a 20mm + 10mm setup, or 2 x 14.8mm or 2 x 16mm?



Drivers are most likely 20mm + 10mm. Comes in two front-piece variants, with outer diameter of 14.8mm or 16mm (for smaller or larger ears).


----------



## Сomrade

james444 said:


> Drivers are most likely 20mm + 10mm.


Rose Maria
(Two speakers,10 mm. tungsten alloy and 20mm. PET + PU)
Rose Maria II
(10 mm. beryllium + 20 mm. PU)


----------



## FranQL

RikudouGoku said:


> Looks like a new bud from Tin Hifi (their first?), credits to @paulwasabii for finding this.


This is great news, for me the best when it comes to new models


----------



## Ronion

You guys just made me order the Yincrow X6".......


----------



## waynes world

Ronion said:


> You guys just made me order the Yincrow X6".......



You're welcome! And you won't be disappointed.


----------



## Ronion

Thank you, I bet I’ll enjoy them.  It is crazy to me how good ear buds can be for so little money.  I got these ones shipped to the US for less than 9USD.  It the are as good or better than the Snow Lotus, I’ll be ecstatic.  Most reports seem to indicate they are better.   It does make me wonder if TOTL are worth it.


----------



## furyossa (May 18, 2021)

Ronion said:


> Thank you, I bet I’ll enjoy them.  It is crazy to me how good ear buds can be for so little money.  I got these ones shipped to the US for less than 9USD.  It the are as good or better than the Snow Lotus, I’ll be ecstatic.  Most reports seem to indicate they are better.   It does make me wonder if TOTL are worth it.


Yincrow tune their buds better than Faaeal. The best example is DaturaPro, model with huge value, amazing build quality and unfortunately bad tuning.
But this is not the end of the story. If you use EQ with @Sam L compensation file you will be amazed at how good they can sound.
That is why we often use the term "Cinderella transformation" for them.

Anyway... enjoy listening X6, don't rush, and then go up


----------



## chinmie

RikudouGoku said:


> Looks like a new bud from Tin Hifi (their first?), credits to @paulwasabii for finding this.



as i usually like their tunings, this is an interesting news indeed


----------



## rprodrigues

furyossa said:


> Yincrow tune their buds better than Faaeal. The best example is DaturaPro, model with huge value, amazing build quality and unfortunately bad tuning.
> But this is not the end of the story. If you use EQ with @Sam L compensation file you will be amazed at how good they can sound.
> That is why we often use the term "Cinderella transformation" for them.
> 
> Anyway... enjoy listening X6, don't rush, and then go up



Well... it's not always true. My Rosemary is very good while the X6 is kinda meh.


----------



## hlalo

hi ,i purchase v500n , after read the forum, please recomend me, a proper earbud for this amazing phone.

i want choose between to180 and ep09


----------



## hlalo (May 18, 2021)

ups my fault


----------



## aspire5550

Hi, I'm looking for an earbud, deciding between DIY MX500, yincrow X6, DIY vido(cost around $1-2 said to be a cheaper version of yincrow x6 that uses the same driver??)

I have some OCD and absolutely hate seeing unused gears(even with rotation, i feel bad for those that are out of rotation), so I don't want to get too many different earphones.

Which buds (not restricted to the ones i listed )would you guys recommend? of course, living in a 3rd world country, cheaper is better. So I would prefer looking for the best value buds 

EDIT: just found a old ty hi-z 32ohm bud, may I know if anyone have some comparisons between this ty hi-z with any of the listed buds? are they different, sidegrade, upgrade?

Thanks


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> Well... it's not always true. My Rosemary is very good while the X6 is kinda meh.


There are always exceptions  I am also more in favor of high impedance models and regardless of tuning, I would always choose to buy such models


----------



## 1clearhead

rprodrigues said:


> Well... it's not always true. My Rosemary is very good while the X6 is kinda meh.


+1 True. I wouldn't consider them the best buds out there. They are just okay for me as well.


----------



## 1clearhead (May 19, 2021)

Now, in the other hand these are another TOTL for me!!! I sometimes wonder how this one almost got away from me!

LOL! Working and living in China for more than 15 years, I would surely know the difference between a fake and a genuine product. 

So, take a look at my new friend!   And, may I dare to say that the sound signature are preferably the "earbud version" of the LZ A7, haha!






I'll be comparing them to the JCALLY EP09 very soon, so stay tuned!

-Clear


----------



## RikudouGoku

1clearhead said:


> Now, in the other hand these are another TOTL for me!!! I sometimes wonder how this one almost got away from me!
> 
> LOL! Working and living in China for more than 15 years, I would surely know the difference between a fake and a genuine product.
> 
> ...


how much did you pay for it again? Most listings I see of it is around 100 usd.


----------



## 1clearhead

RikudouGoku said:


> how much did you pay for it again? Most listings I see of it is around 100 usd.


299 RMB, around $46 US dollars. This is an incredible done deal for me!


----------



## furyossa

1clearhead said:


> 299 RMB, around $46 US dollars. This is an incredible done deal for me!


Only package design and beautiful presentation worth more than that


----------



## 1clearhead

Here goes the "link" on taobao for those who missed it the first time.

I hope he sells overseas for everyone else, so you may want to try to chat with him on taobao and ask if he can ship out of China.

1MORE E1008
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...ut3ap2&id=642997904247&ns=1&abbucket=3#detail

-Clear


----------



## dachswerk

I bought the one from miberia.com. 34 euro with shipping, 24 hours delivery to Croatia.
This thread has made me buy Yincrow X6, K's LBB, Toneking Viridis (beacuse the praise from @RikudouGoku for female vocals), graphite OpenHeart, Tingo TC200
and **** BK2. The **** BK2 was my first modern earbud, I am mostly an IEM guy, and they are a totally different experience. The soundstage and tonality is addicting.
I wanted to upload some pictures but @1clearhead did a much better job.
1MORE E1008 is my favourite so far. I use them with donut foams over the silicon one that comes on the bud. The seal is the best I had with an earbud. This is IEM level bass.
This is my first post to end my years of lurking here on headfi.org


----------



## FranQL (May 19, 2021)

I agree

edit.: photos for @furyossa analyze


----------



## dachswerk

FranQL said:


> I agree


Best unbox experience of my life. The accessories are bonkers. And the packaging with the drawings make my nerdgina wet.


----------



## baskingshark

1clearhead said:


> Now, in the other hand these are another TOTL for me!!! I sometimes wonder how this one almost got away from me!
> 
> LOL! Working and living in China for more than 15 years, I would surely know the difference between a fake and a genuine product.
> 
> ...



Nice, looks super beautiful.

The cable looks a bit thin and is it microphonic? Since it is non detachable?


----------



## FranQL

baskingshark said:


> Nice, looks super beautiful.
> 
> The cable looks a bit thin and is it microphonic? Since it is non detachable?


It is quality, no complaints. also the microphone is more than acceptable to talk on the phone.


----------



## dachswerk

I don't think the cable will be a failure point. I've had some 1More IEM's and some of their Xiaomi branded ones. Cable was never a failure point, mostly theft and mechanical accident 🤣


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Only package design and beautiful presentation worth more than that


Just going to mention that this is pretty standard from them, like with the Piston 2 (20 usd) from 2013/2014.







baskingshark said:


> Nice, looks super beautiful.
> 
> The cable looks a bit thin and is it microphonic? Since it is non detachable?





dachswerk said:


> I don't think the cable will be a failure point. I've had some 1More IEM's and some of their Xiaomi branded ones. Cable was never a failure point, mostly theft and mechanical accident 🤣


Thats the opposite experience I had. The only cables in my entire audio life that has died on me, where the ones from the Piston/hybrid series. And I mean, EVERYONE of them died. It was the sole reason why I always bougth a new one. Because the cable always died on me. Piston 2 -> Hybrid -> hybrid pro and I bought multiple units of the same model sometimes, they usually died after around 3 months. (its why I got pissed off at them and went to look after alternatives and thats how I discovered KZ from a reddit post lol.)


Although to be fair, the E1008 cable DO look better than the ones used in their old iems...so hopefully they improved on durability.


----------



## FranQL

It could be the standard for everyone, and I would be happier.


----------



## 40760

I had the E1008 a few years back. If I'm not wrong the cables are Kevlar reinforced.


----------



## RikudouGoku

palestofwhite said:


> I had the E1008 a few years back. If I'm not wrong the cables are Kevlar reinforced.


Thats what they claimed the Piston/hybrid cables are as well. Didnt help in my experience lol.


----------



## dachswerk

RikudouGoku said:


> Just going to mention that this is pretty standard from them, like with the Piston 2 (20 usd) from 2013/2014.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Xiaomi Piston 2.1 was my first in-ear love. I was a over-ear guy. I borrowed them to my brother and that was the last anyone seen them. I bought the Piston 3 or whatever the model was and that wasn't what i liked. Then went into the head-fi rabbit hole and bought some KZ's. 
Last year I did some research and decide to update my collection, because I started walking to my job to avoid exposure to the thing that is out there. First some very nice IEM's and then wanted to try some earbuds. Big mistake 😁


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> It could be the standard for everyone, and I would be happier.


In terms of sound quality which model in your collection (including DIY PK one with goddess cable), sound better than 1More E1008?


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> In terms of sound quality which model in your collection (including DIY PK one with goddess cable), sound better than 1More E1008?



If we talk about this 1More, I never mention it, because I use it when I am not attentive or I am working, not something analytical, it is the one that I carry in my backpack in case I have to connect to the pc when I travel or my battery runs out. bt headphones.

It's a good sound, more in your face, I don't know how to explain it and I don't want anyone to bother, it's a great value, but its presentation of the sound is easy for me to listen to, more like an all-terrain vehicle, uncomplicated but far away. than other shoots give me.

In buds I have not gotten an SQ of my total preference, but if I can only take one, (in the absence of changing the cable to viridis), I think it would be TO600. But I am completely sure that with the little experience I have, there will be shoots that are much better quality / price, but you cannot have all of them.


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> If we talk about this 1More, I never mention it, because I use it when I am not attentive or I am working, not something analytical, it is the one that I carry in my backpack in case I have to connect to the pc when I travel or my battery runs out. bt headphones.
> 
> It's a good sound, more in your face, I don't know how to explain it and I don't want anyone to bother, it's a great value, but its presentation of the sound is easy for me to listen to, more like an all-terrain vehicle, uncomplicated but far away. than other shoots give me.
> 
> In buds I have not gotten an SQ of my total preference, but if I can only take one, (in the absence of changing the cable to viridis), I think it would be TO600. But I am completely sure that with the little experience I have, there will be shoots that are much better quality / price, but you cannot have all of them.


Thanks for the info. So basically is nice to have them in the collection


----------



## povidlo

Glad you folks ended up in ordering and enjoying E1008!

Still waiting for mine to arrive from Germany, now I'm even more anxious to hear them!


----------



## Сomrade

povidlo said:


> Still waiting for mine to arrive from Germany


Give me the address of the store!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

povidlo said:


> Glad you folks ended up in ordering and enjoying E1008!
> 
> Still waiting for mine to arrive from Germany, now I'm even more anxious to hear them!


I am just sincerely relieved and happy to hear & see that you all are receiving OEM products (authentic NOS - New Old Stock) as *1More (Xiaomi)*, especially the 2015/16 Piston series, was so heavily copied over here in SE Asia... rather quite well in fact, all the way down to remarkably authentic packaging.


----------



## povidlo

Сomrade said:


> Give me the address of the store!


https://miberia.com/de

Unfortunately they don't ship to ex-USSR countries, comrade (except Moldova).



WoodyLuvr said:


> I am just sincerely relieved and happy to hear & see that you all are receiving OEM products (authentic NOS - New Old Stock) as *1More (Xiaomi)*, especially the 2015/16 Piston series, was so heavily copied over here in SE Asia... rather quite well in fact, all the way down to remarkably authentic packaging.



I bet it would be quite challenging to replicate all of the different accessories and packaging, it comes with a lot lol.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 19, 2021)

povidlo said:


> I bet it would be quite challenging to replicate all of the different accessories and packaging, it comes with a lot lol.


You'd be very, very surprised!

The Piston, especially the IEM variants, is well known and recognized as being one of the most counterfeited and replicated headphones in history. One of the more wickeder fakes out there actually used original OEM rejected and/or left-over shells that were scouted out from the originating factory to also include original packing materials and accessories from another factory! Also, it has been suspected that the OEM might have encouraged this after they were no longer able to source specific drivers and had vast quantities of unused shells, accessories, and packaging to deal with. Even a very well known European headphone manufacturer has been suspected of similar nefarious activities in the pursuit of profits.


----------



## Сomrade (May 19, 2021)

1) YINCROW RW-100
2) Xiaomi Mi Dual Driver Type-C


----------



## vygas

Hello everyone, nearly forgot to post this here but I thought better late than never. I finally got my hands on the Shozy SG, the cable is fairly nice and the stock foams (in my opinion) kinda made it sound worse than the foams I currently have on the SG, which seems to be a theme across all Shozy buds from both experience and what people have told me. Either way I got them for relatively cheap and I am fairly happy to have them in my collection .



Spoiler: Photos







Hope everyone's having a good week so far as well!


----------



## 1clearhead

dachswerk said:


> I bought the one from miberia.com. 34 euro with shipping, 24 hours delivery to Croatia.
> This thread has made me buy Yincrow X6, K's LBB, Toneking Viridis (beacuse the praise from @RikudouGoku for female vocals), graphite OpenHeart, Tingo TC200
> and **** BK2. The **** BK2 was my first modern earbud, I am mostly an IEM guy, and they are a totally different experience. The soundstage and tonality is addicting.
> I wanted to upload some pictures but @1clearhead did a much better job.
> ...


I think you just bought the last pair, because by curiosity I went to see how many they had left at miberia.com, but they sold out fast!


----------



## dachswerk

1clearhead said:


> I think you just bought the last pair, because by curiosity I went to see how many they had left at miberia.com, but they sold out fast!


I would've ordered another pair, but I was skeptical. Sounded too good to be true. There were out of stock when I received it. But still very happy that I got them. Now I'm gonna pause my shopping for a while. Since they are adding custom charges to small packages in EU, probably gonna end up buying more premium buds couple of times a year.


----------



## furyossa

vygas said:


> Hello everyone, nearly forgot to post this here but I thought better late than never. I finally got my hands on the Shozy SG, the cable is fairly nice and the stock foams (in my opinion) kinda made it sound worse than the foams I currently have on the SG, which seems to be a theme across all Shozy buds from both experience and what people have told me. Either way I got them for relatively cheap and I am fairly happy to have them in my collection .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Congrats man, they look really beautiful. Even though the DP100 shell is 15.4mm it still provides better comfort and fit than the MX500 shell. 
There is no need to comment on the PK shell. 
On Ali can still be found OG DP100 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33004737069.html


----------



## povidlo

furyossa said:


> On Ali can still be found OG DP100 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33004737069.html


real?  

@WoodyLuvr @RikudouGoku raising my paranoia about fakes while looking out for us.

I'm a bit of Beyer fanboy myself and have had these on wishlist for a while. No packaging as far as I understand.


----------



## RikudouGoku

povidlo said:


> real?
> 
> @WoodyLuvr @RikudouGoku raising my paranoia about fakes while looking out for us.
> 
> I'm a bit of Beyer fanboy myself and have had these on wishlist for a while. No packaging as far as I understand.


Just speaking from my experience with xiaomi/1more products in the past. It could be a scenario like with Sony, where there are tons and tons of fakes out there with their MH755/750 models but not a single one with their EX800ST for example.


----------



## furyossa

povidlo said:


> real?
> 
> @WoodyLuvr @RikudouGoku raising my paranoia about fakes while looking out for us.
> 
> I'm a bit of Beyer fanboy myself and have had these on wishlist for a while. No packaging as far as I understand.


The packaging is probably rotten somewhere 
This is the only warranty


----------



## Serge Bernamej

rprodrigues said:


> Well... it's not always true. My Rosemary is very good while the X6 is kinda meh.


The Rosemary is incredible indeed. I wonder if I should order a backup.


----------



## vygas

furyossa said:


> Congrats man, they look really beautiful. Even though the DP100 shell is 15.4mm it still provides better comfort and fit than the MX500 shell.
> There is no need to comment on the PK shell.
> On Ali can still be found OG DP100 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33004737069.html


Their shell is very comfortable, doesn't fit the best but the shell is very comfortable. The Foster driver the SG uses is fairly good too but I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same one used in the DP100 or other similar shelled buds. Eitherway I'd take the SG over most other DIY MX760 buds I've tried (though I still need the DP100)


----------



## furyossa

vygas said:


> Their shell is very comfortable, doesn't fit the best but the shell is very comfortable. The Foster driver the SG uses is fairly good too but I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same one used in the DP100 or other similar shelled buds. Eitherway I'd take the SG over most other DIY MX760 buds I've tried (though I still need the DP100)


You said Foster driver? Interestig. ShoonTH lineup use the same driver with resistor on expensive models only.
This is the driver that they use for ShoonTH buds 





https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000898923123.html
And impedance mod with resistor is shown in this video


----------



## vygas

furyossa said:


> You said Foster driver? Interestig. ShoonTH lineup use the same driver with resistor on expensive models only.
> This is the driver that they use for ShoonTH buds
> 
> 
> ...


That's a different driver to what the SG uses, no impedance tricks either. Drivers on the SG are more similar to vintage Panasonic drivers from photos I've seen.


----------



## povidlo

vygas said:


> Their shell is very comfortable, doesn't fit the best but the shell is very comfortable. The Foster driver the SG uses is fairly good too but I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same one used in the DP100 or other similar shelled buds. Eitherway I'd take the SG over most other DIY MX760 buds I've tried (though I still need the DP100)


could you briefly compare SG to PT2021 when you have a moment? which impedance version of PT2021 do you have?


----------



## cappuchino

Don't know if it's been posted here yet, but the new Smabat M0 is now on Shopee for ~30 USD. It would be interesting if Smabat would sell drivers with different tunings/diaphragm using this modular design.


----------



## 40760 (May 20, 2021)

cappuchino said:


> Don't know if it's been posted here yet, but the new Smabat M0 is now on Shopee for ~30 USD. It would be interesting if Smabat would sell drivers with different tunings/diaphragm using this modular design.


Looks like a fun set to me... price is pretty good too...

There is a more expensive M2s Pro...


----------



## furyossa

povidlo said:


> could you briefly compare SG to PT2021 when you have a moment? which impedance version of PT2021 do you have?


I am also interested in this comparison


----------



## RikudouGoku

....its going to be a bud party over here soon.

Just ordered the Smabat Super one (review discount) and will get the M2S Pro (review unit) as well. 
My Bell-WE and Samsara K300 havent even been shipped yet lol.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> ....its going to be a bud party over here soon.
> 
> Just ordered the Smabat Super one (review discount) and will get the M2S Pro (review unit) as well.
> My Bell-WE and Samsara K300 havent even been shipped yet lol.


Wow. So this silence now is a lull before the storm


----------



## Into The Light5

Has anyone try these driver? The priciest diy 14.8mm i've seen

A local diy store selling these driver with slight physical difference but with exact description (translated)

https://m.tb.cn/h.4sfvf6a?sm=a27cfd


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 30, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> ....its going to be a bud party over here soon.
> 
> Just ordered the Smabat Super one (review discount) and will get the M2S Pro (review unit) as well.
> My Bell-WE and Samsara K300 havent even been shipped yet lol.


I'll take the bait, I am currently awaiting:

_*Blur 美魔女 Beautiful Witch MX300 aPs Edition* (300Ω; Air Pocket Shell)_; a Wong Kuan Wae Special Edition
_*Venture Electronics (VE) Headphone Adapter Cable* (2.5TRRS Female to 3.5SE Male; 10cm)_; simply can't have enough of these!
_*XINHS HIFI Audio Headphone Extension Cable* (2.5TRRS Female to 2.5TRRS Male; 75cm)_; kindly recommended by @RikudouGoku
_*E1DA 9038SG3 Susumu3000 DAC headAMP* (2.5mm Balanced)_; out of sheer curiosity


----------



## 40760

I have the Monk Go incoming to compare with the Monk Plus.


----------



## furyossa

Into The Light5 said:


> Has anyone try these driver? The priciest diy 14.8mm i've seen
> 
> A local diy store selling these driver with slight physical difference but with exact description (translated)
> 
> https://m.tb.cn/h.4sfvf6a?sm=a27cfd


Wrong thread. Post on DIY earbuds thread. 
The same shells you can find on Ali (Chitty's Store sells them)


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> I'll take the bait, I am currently awaiting:
> 
> _*Blur 美魔女 Beautiful Witch MX300 aPs* (300Ω; Air Pocket Shell)_; a Wong Kuan Wae refurb'd prototype
> _*Venture Electronics (VE) Headphone Adapter Cable* (2.5TRRS Female to 3.5SE Male; 10cm)_; simply can't have enough of these!
> ...


What's the news for the Bell Ti?


----------



## Into The Light5

furyossa said:


> Wrong thread. Post on DIY earbuds thread.
> The same shells you can find on Ali (Chitty's Store sells them)


Ok sorry, i will post it there, thx


----------



## furyossa (May 20, 2021)

Into The Light5 said:


> Ok sorry, i will post it there, thx


No problem. There you will get an answer to the question for the driver you posted, and you can also search the DIY thread because there are a lot of recommendations DIY parts.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Guys, I need to gift the woman nice looking earbuds (maybe wood) for her to listen without amping or dac, so directly with phone.
She saw my Yinman600 and thought it was beautifu.
Any suggestions ?


----------



## furyossa (May 20, 2021)

Serge Bernamej said:


> Guys, I need to gift the woman nice looking earbuds (maybe wood) for her to listen without amping or dac, so directly with phone.
> She saw my Yinman600 and thought it was beautifu.
> Any suggestions ?


Yinman150 (new model) and Yinman600 will be the best wood buds for the present.
Another bud will be TMusic buds (wood version with 32ohm beryllium coated driver) or old Yinman150.
As for IEMs, IMO best looking model is Shozy Black Hole mini.(I wonder why there is such a difference in price between the wooden shell and the stainless steel version)


----------



## WoodyLuvr

So very, very tempted...

*2021 PISLO PXVV*





Even the *2020 PISLO 焱 Yan Black Flame Edition's* siren song is proving difficult to ignore


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> So very, very tempted...
> 
> *2021 PISLO PXVV*
> 
> ...


PXV standard = 770 usd
PXV high impedance version = 1088 usd

Yan black flame = 400 usd 

Based on the prices there. Luckily they all have mmcx connectors, glad they at least got that.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

furyossa said:


> What's the news for the Bell Ti?


Enroute to Singapore.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> PXV standard = 770 usd
> PXV high impedance version = 1088 usd
> 
> Yan black flame = 400 usd
> ...


And here is replacement cable for Black Flame😉
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32894422375.html


----------



## 1clearhead

As promised! A quick impression of *1MORE E1008* and *JCALLY EP09* comparison.



For almost a week, I've been using the 1MORE E1008 making sure that by now they would have a top peak audio presentation to their hybrid driving system, and wow! Can they play a tune! At first, out of the box they sounded kind of rich, but average. But, after I gave them a weeks trial period of listening to them, they can really perform with an incredible stage presence! Now, just before the E1008, I've been floored with the JCALLY EP09, which are technically insane for an earbud at such a low price. But, can they hang with a hybrid like the E1008's? Let's dig deeper to see what gives and what takes from both of my now TOTL's!



As you know, I've been sporting the EP09, which has an incredible lust and resolution while using sponge covers for accurate sound and comfort. They provide a presentation of a clean and airy transparency that's hard to come by on any level of earbuds I've listened to recently. The fact of the matter lies on its beryllium coated drivers keeping the music realistic and mature, while providing a technically insane experience of resolution plus plenty of high definition details.



Now, with the E1008 the experience just grew and grew towards a maturity like no other. The soundstage just started opening up after a few hours, then just kept getting better, while the accuracy of the hybrid bass and tweeter combo started kicking in for an experience on questioning whether I was listening to earbuds, or listening to one of my favorite IEM's...the LZ A7's! The reason I mention the A7 is because of the similarities of the built in tweeters quickly reminded me of the same similar sound signature. By now, the E1008 sounds like a matured and broad soundstage speaker system with insane clarity. Bass hits low and deep for earbuds while it maintains a balanced focus on the rest of the signature. And, even though bass does stand out, the true high light lies with the accuracy of the MID's and tweeter combo! They just sound as an earbud version of my A7's!



Now, comparing the E1008 and the EP09, they both have great technicalities, while the E1008 sounds more analytical and dryer with precision, the EP09 sounds more transparent and lush. Though, recently I've been listening to the E1008 more for its' separation and layering of the songs. Now, resolution is really good on both IEM's, but I got to applaud the E1008 for its' huge soundstage and separation. It's probably the high light they have when compared to the slightly smaller stage presence of the EP09. I'm sure this is caused by the rich bass the E1008 demonstrates with the driver and tweeter hybrid configuration. On the bright side, I'm glad they sound completely different from each other, the EP09 sounding technically transparent and clear, while the E1008 sounding technically, open and rich! So, there's no clear winner here, but just different expectations, since I personally hear them as both TOTL in my book!

Hope you enjoyed my small impression! 

-Clear


----------



## likeafranfran

1clearhead said:


> As promised! A quick impression of *1MORE E1008* and *JCALLY EP09* comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The jcally EP09 come with a case or something?


----------



## 1clearhead

likeafranfran said:


> The jcally EP09 come with a case or something?


No. For such a low price, I guess they focused all their efforts more on the earbuds DD and detachable cables. But, it does come in a nice box.



-Clear


----------



## hlalo (May 20, 2021)

i am between jcally ep09 and toneking to180, for a lg v50 please gimme some light , i only have crappy 3usd earbuds, and.... sounds amazing


----------



## rincewind

Long time since I've logged into Head-Fi... I'm looking to replace my Yuin PK3. I'm looking at this thread, trying to figure out where the reviews/comparisons between all these earbuds are, but I can't find the info, only the pictures on the first thread. 

What am I missing? Where are the reviews?


----------



## wskl

palestofwhite said:


> I have the Monk Go incoming to compare with the Monk Plus.



What do I have here ... 



Spoiler



Top: Monk Go "Standard Edition"
Bottom: Monk Go "Candy Limited Edition"



The Monk Go tuning is based on the original Monk, somewhere between the Gen1 and Gen2 (yes, there were 2 revisions).  When I started this earbud hobby around 5 years ago, the original Monk was already discontinued so I never had the chance to listen to it.  But I can tell you that this new Monk Go sounds great, it doesn't have much in common with the Monk Plus sound, it sounds quite different, the overall sound is better balanced, it is cleaner, more detailed, less thick.


----------



## uneri (Jun 24, 2021)

‎


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 21, 2021)

rincewind said:


> Long time since I've logged into Head-Fi... I'm looking to replace my Yuin PK3. I'm looking at this thread, trying to figure out where the reviews/comparisons between all these earbuds are, but I can't find the info, only the pictures on the first thread.
> 
> What am I missing? Where are the reviews?


Unfortunately, this here earbuds thread is not organized in that manner... it is not exactly a thread of reviews per se but rather a timely friendly discourse about earbud models as they come and go overtime and the brief comparisons and sometimes lengthy discussions regarding particular aspects of the overall medium.

Long ago there was a ranking/recommendation list but it was removed. See my previous down below regarding that.


WoodyLuvr said:


> *@arar*  -  Yeah the only (current) earbuds rankings I know about are *RikudouGoku's* and *Metaller's*
> 
> *@ClieOS* briefly had one here at the beginning of this very thread but people couldn't _politely agree to disagree_ so to avoid any further disagreements it was removed.



All said and done the thread is indeed a wealth of information that requires work (via a rather patient and thoughtful "search" approach) to discover all it's treasures.


----------



## rincewind

WoodyLuvr said:


> Unfortunately, this here earbuds thread is not organized in that manner... it is not exactly a thread of reviews per se but rather a timely friendly discourse about earbud models as they come and go overtime and the brief comparisons and sometimes lengthy discussions regarding particular aspects of the overall medium.
> 
> Long ago there was a ranking/recommendation list but it was removed. See my previous down below regarding that.
> 
> ...


Thanks for replying  FAR OUT .. I don't have time to read through 3600 pages of chit chat 
I also see that the forum has a new recommendations section... Will I be banned for asking for a recommendation here...?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 21, 2021)

rincewind said:


> Thanks for replying  FAR OUT .. I don't have time to read through 3600 pages of chit chat
> I also see that the forum has a new recommendations section... Will I be banned for asking for a recommendation here...?


You are most welcome (in all regards)! Not at all, though you might be received with the sound of crickets.

Firstly, though this is historically one of the friendliest and most helpful threads on Head-Fi.. we still don't suffer laziness, silliness, novice-arrogance, or any form of trolling. We have found an unusually effective and polite method of curtailing such behavior without the need for nasty confrontation and/or personal attack, *IGNORATION*. To avoid being ignored or worse receiving weak, unhelpful replies we would advise that you lean towards asking specific thoughtful questions while providing as much data that is required so that others can more easily answer you; offer better advice; and/or provide a solid recommendation. For example and with all due respect:

You probably should have expanded your request in your previous post "*I'm looking to replace my Yuin PK3*" with details such as: what type of music you listen to; when & where?; preferred listening level and for how long (as in the listening session time); your source equipment; sound signature preference (e.g. warm, neutral, or bright); cable and audio plug termination preferences; etc. You also could have mentioned what you liked and disliked about the Yuin PK3 as that would be extremely helpful to us in providing you a replacement or upgrade recommendation.​​Secondly, completely understanding one balking at the idea of having to search thru a 50K plus post thread we still would strongly encourage anyone to do it as there are truly thousands of gems hidden within the thread that are worth the time and effort to discover. With some practice in short time you will learn to search more quickly and more effectively thru the thread finding what you seek amongst all the "chit chat".

By the way, you might check out my Earbud Links just below; you might find one of them helpful in some way.


----------



## rincewind

Haha old hat here, familiar with the notion of asking specific questions... check my profile's join date 

My previous post wasn't a question, only a statement of my intent - just needed clarification of what this thread is/isn't. I would search through here, but literally have no idea how that would help because it would turn up such scattershot results.. I was hoping there would be done direct comparisons for me to base a decision on. Keyword in your post was *hidden* gems Working full-time and with a 5 month old, I don't have time to play Indiana Jones to pick new earbuds 

 Now that I know the gist of this thread...

I'm looking to replace my Yuin PK3. I use it to listen to music at work, fed FLAC by my iRiver h140. I mostly user them to listen at work, and I need earbuds rather than IEMs, so I will know when people are talking to me.

I also need earbuds and not IEMs because I've had too many hit and miss results with IEMs (slightly different size ears, so can't rely on a uniform 'fit' with plugs).
I listen to literally all sorts of music, but prefer a neutral to slightly warm presentation. Harsh treble (1-4kHz) is my kryptonite. Prefer solid bass depth and accuracy to loose of bass. Budget is under 100USD. would love to hear what suggestions people have.
Thanks in advance.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 21, 2021)

rincewind said:


> I'm looking to replace my Yuin PK3. I use it to listen to music at work, fed FLAC by my iRiver h140. I mostly user them to listen at work, and I need earbuds rather than IEMs, so I will know when people are talking to me.
> 
> I also need earbuds and not IEMs because I've had too many hit and miss results with IEMs (slightly different size ears, so can't rely on a uniform 'fit' with plugs).
> I listen to literally all sorts of music, but prefer a neutral to slightly warm presentation. Harsh treble (1-4kHz) is my kryptonite. Prefer solid bass depth and accuracy to loose of bass. Budget is under 100USD. would love to hear what suggestions people have.
> Thanks in advance.


I totally hear and feel you on the "harsh treble" being your kryptonite. I too am extremely sensitive to sibilant, bright treble and avoid it at all costs as if it were the plague!

Are you averse to trying a different shell type such as the classic MX500 style or an Other Variant style like a Bell or New Age design? Or are you interested only in the smaller PK type shell? BTW: Did you use foam ear pads on your Yuin PK3 earbuds?


----------



## furyossa

rincewind said:


> Haha old hat here, familiar with the notion of asking specific questions... check my profile's join date
> 
> My previous post wasn't a question, only a statement of my intent - just needed clarification of what this thread is/isn't. I would search through here, but literally have no idea how that would help because it would turn up such scattershot results.. I was hoping there would be done direct comparisons for me to base a decision on. Keyword in your post was *hidden* gems Working full-time and with a 5 month old, I don't have time to play Indiana Jones to pick new earbuds
> 
> ...


I send you a PM


----------



## furyossa (May 21, 2021)

Smabat M series drive unit module compatible with M2s pro M0​



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001268432243.html
I hope that we see more of these in a future


----------



## 40760

wskl said:


> What do I have here ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



VE's Original Monk was what gotten me back into earbuds, but I simply cannot remember how they sounded like because that was way back. Then when they released the Monk Plus I bought a few but other earbuds took over and replaced them eventually.

I see you have the initial release of the Monk Go with candy cable, but the one I ordered is not so fancy and will come in all black. I took this chance to also get the Monk Plus so I can compare them. These days, I haven't really looked at budget options besides the recent Yincrow X6, but I think it is nice to have some around the house when I need something to use casually.


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> You are most welcome (in all regards)! Not at all, though you might be received with the sound of crickets.
> 
> Firstly, though this is historically one of the friendliest and most helpful threads on Head-Fi.. we still don't suffer laziness, silliness, novice-arrogance, or any form of trolling. We have found an unusually effective and polite method of curtailing such behavior without the need for nasty confrontation and/or personal attack, *IGNORATION*. To avoid being ignored or worse receiving weak, unhelpful replies we would advise that you lean towards asking specific thoughtful questions while providing as much data that is required so that others can more easily answer you; offer better advice; and/or provide a solid recommendation. For example and with all due respect:
> 
> ...


Very well said.


----------



## 40760

furyossa said:


> Smabat M series drive unit module compatible with M2s pro M0​
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001268432243.html
> I hope that we see more of these in a future



I think this is the right step forward for the earbuds industry, rather than those fixed cables with swappable plugs.


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Smabat M series drive unit module compatible with M2s pro M0​
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001268432243.html
> I hope that we see more of these in a future


Interesting.




Looks like I will have fun playing around with all those configs (assuming that the M2S Pro includes all of them).


----------



## 40760

RikudouGoku said:


> Interesting.
> 
> 
> Looks like I will have fun playing around with all those configs (assuming that the M2S Pro includes all of them).



I'm waiting for you to get yours and see what you have to share with us...


----------



## RikudouGoku

palestofwhite said:


> I'm waiting for you to get yours and see what you have to share with us...


Yeah, better wait for impressions rather than blind buying it.

Although its really hard to tell the difference on the graphs when they arent overlayed...


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> Interesting.
> 
> 
> Looks like I will have fun playing around with all those configs (assuming that the M2S Pro includes all of them).



I think u might have to purchase them seperately. When I got the original M2 Pro SMABAT, it only came with 1 driver type, the other 3 - 4 variants had to be bought and weren't included.


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> I think u might have to purchase them seperately. When I got the original M2 Pro SMABAT, it only came with 1 driver type, the other 3 - 4 variants had to be bought and weren't included.


oh, thats a shame I guess. Did you buy the other variations though? Are they like filters (big change) or switches (gimmicky) for iems?


----------



## citral23 (May 21, 2021)

citral23 said:


> Battle of the Tonekings
> 
> 
> 
> ...


​Densproasis I would put between TO180 and TO400, it is more colorfoul and vivid than the TO400 with more forward mids, without being overdone but we're reaching the top of what I deem acceptable, but also has a much tighter bass than the TO180 albeit with really good quantity for earbuds, which makes it a really good "fun to listen" earbud in my book, without the flaws (boomy, vague bass) of the TO180. Clarity on par with other Tonekings, it won't destroy your ears, and is sufficient for me but I'd have preferred slightly more sparkle if I'm completely honest.The cable... meh but much better than all previous ones bare theTO400.

Overall, it's a good one.


----------



## furyossa

palestofwhite said:


> I think this is the right step forward for the earbuds industry, rather than those fixed cables with swappable plugs.


For sure. Also, you will be able to tray other DIY drivers with little soldering works.


----------



## furyossa (May 21, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> I think u might have to purchase them seperately. When I got the original M2 Pro SMABAT, it only came with 1 driver type, the other 3 - 4 variants had to be bought and weren't included.


Yup. Probably with the best of them. But therefore there is a possibility that the same driver, which use M2 Pro, can be used with the M0 model, and I think that's a big advantage. All these things with modular drivers remind me of LEGO for earbud lovers


----------



## citral23 (May 21, 2021)

Toneking TP16 : disapointment as it has a vague, boomy uncontrolled bass. If you like quantity over quality, why not. No juging. Not the worst I've heard mind you.

Those shells are sooo comfortable though, really willing to put some $$$ in a good one with that form factor in the near future.

Edit : actually, I think I'm a bit hard on that one, because this is in a comparison context that bass seems to lack tightness, but picked up on its own without reference, it sounds to me like the great, great TO200 mids I love, but with a lot of bass, and good slam, vs no bass but good slam of the TO200.

Time will tell, will revisit now and then.


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Yup. Probably with the best of them. But therefore there is a possibility that the same driver, which use M2 Pro, can be used with the M0 model, and I think that's a big advantage. All these things with modular drivers remind me of LEGO for earbud lovers





Yup, you can. Looks like the modules are compatible with their entire M series.


----------



## furyossa (May 21, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Yup, you can. Looks like the modules are compatible with their entire M series.


And now this is starting to get interesting. Smabat started the idea i.e. solution where we will carry a pair of earbuds and a pack of gummy bears ... sorry I mean drivers  Of course, cables with interchangeable plugs are always an option


----------



## rincewind

furyossa said:


> I send you a PM





WoodyLuvr said:


> I totally hear and feel you on the "harsh treble" being your kryptonite. I too am extremely sensitive to sibilant, bright treble and avoid it at all costs as if it were the plague!
> 
> Are you averse to trying a different shell type such as the classic MX500 style or an Other Variant style like a Bell or New Age design? Or are you interested only in the smaller PK type shell? BTW: Did you use foam ear pads on your Yuin PK3 earbuds?


I'm open to any earbuds style. I use MX style at home (branded as HTC, bundled with an old phone), without any form, lazy fit just for listening to non hifi stuff on my laptop. Not sure what bell or new age style are. I use the foam on the Yuin, simply to get a more secure fit.
Cheers


----------



## RikudouGoku

Wasnt the ST10S already a basshead bud? And here they are talking about how much more powerful the bass is on the Super One lol. They also mentioned it got a faster response, does the ST10S have a slow/loose bass?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

palestofwhite said:


> I think this is the right step forward for the earbuds industry, rather than those fixed cables with swappable plugs.


Totally concur!


furyossa said:


> Smabat M series drive unit module compatible with M2s pro M0​
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001268432243.html
> I hope that we see more of these in a future


How reliable (robust) are those little (mini micro?) plastic JST connectors? Can they realistically hold up to the required plug-in repetitions as I have found the larger sized ones to be rather weak in multiple-use scenarios?


----------



## furyossa

rincewind said:


> I'm open to any earbuds style. I use MX style at home (branded as HTC, bundled with an old phone), without any form, lazy fit just for listening to non hifi stuff on my laptop. Not sure what bell or new age style are. I use the foam on the Yuin, simply to get a more secure fit.
> Cheers


New style are marked green. They are in most cases metal shells (bell-shaped or funnel-shaped) with stem or no stem (with MMCX connectors)


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Wasnt the ST10S already a basshead bud? And here they are talking about how much more powerful the bass is on the Super One lol. They also mentioned it got a faster response, does the ST10S have a slow/loose bass?


Obviously they use a different driver. The new acoustic system regulates the pressure in the shell more efficiently, which contributes to a better movement of the diaphragm of the driver, and it has a significant impact on low frequencies. And as you say the ST10s already have enough bass quantity and I think an additional increase would be superfluous. When it comes to bass quality, what is not mentioned here of course, then that’s another story. We'll find out after your test


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Obviously they use a different driver. The new acoustic system regulates the pressure in the shell more efficiently, which contributes to a better movement of the diaphragm of the driver, and it has a significant impact on low frequencies. And as you say the ST10s already have enough bass quantity and I think an additional increase would be superfluous. When it comes to bass quality, what is not mentioned here of course, then that’s another story. We'll find out after your test


Yeah I guess lol. Generally, when brands mention bass performance it could be either quality or quantity lol.


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Totally concur!
> 
> How reliable (robust) are those little (mini micro?) plastic JST connectors? Can they realistically hold up to the required plug-in repetitions as I have found the larger sized ones to be rather weak in multiple-use scenarios?


It depends a lot on the quality of the plastic they use. But as we know none of them can predict whether the user will change drivers often and I think it is definitely not meant for frequent driver changes. In addition to this connector, driver cover can be equally damaged at the point where it joins the shell


----------



## digititus

RikudouGoku said:


> Wasnt the ST10S already a basshead bud? And here they are talking about how much more powerful the bass is on the Super One lol. They also mentioned it got a faster response, does the ST10S have a slow/loose bass?


You can never have too much bass! Love the ST10s Gold, so these may be very interesting.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah I guess lol. Generally, when brands mention bass performance it could be either quality or quantity lol.


Maybe quantity 90% and quality 10% when it comes to earbuds


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 21, 2021)

rincewind said:


> I'm open to any earbuds style. I use MX style at home (branded as HTC, bundled with an old phone), without any form, lazy fit just for listening to non hifi stuff on my laptop. Not sure what bell or new age style are. I use the foam on the Yuin, simply to get a more secure fit.
> Cheers


*Yincrow X6*



furyossa said:


> New style are marked green. They are in most cases metal shells (bell-shaped or funnel-shaped) with stem or no stem (with MMCX connectors)


In addition to @furyossa's excellent reply above you can check out this co-authored post *here* that discusses the various earbud shell types.


----------



## furyossa

digititus said:


> You can never have too much bass! Love the ST10s Gold, so these may be very interesting.


You are right if you mean sub-bass but for mid-bass, no


----------



## WoodyLuvr

furyossa said:


> It depends a lot on the quality of the plastic they use. But as we know none of them can predict whether the user will change drivers often and I think it is definitely not meant for frequent driver changes. In addition to this connector, driver cover can be equally damaged at the point where it joins the shell


Yes. These type of wire-to-wire connectors are heavily used in electronic items utilizing battery packs and they tend to fail after a certain amount of use. A very good point there about the driver shell cover. But I do still think this is the right direction for earbuds to go and maybe a mini-sized magnetic based connector could be created for this high-usage scenario along with a replacement friendly shell (cover).


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> oh, thats a shame I guess. Did you buy the other variations though? Are they like filters (big change) or switches (gimmicky) for iems?



I didn't buy the other driver modules though as I don't have soldering skills. But a friend of mine bought the ST10S Black Gold driver and soldered it into the M2 Pro and he said it sounds rather close to the original ST10S Black Gold, for much cheaper.

I'm pretty sure the sound is influenced more than the driver though, even the earbud shell shape, vents, damping materials and shell materials will for sure influence the sound, even with the same driver.


----------



## furyossa (May 21, 2021)

@WoodyLuvr


> Yes. These type of wire-to-wire connectors are heavily used in electronic items utilizing battery packs and they tend to fail after a certain amount of use. A very good point there about the driver shell cover. But I do still think this is the right direction for earbuds to go and maybe a mini-sized magnetic based connector could be created for this high-usage scenario along with a replacement friendly shell (cover).


Yes, this is right direction but needs more improvement. There are some very durable materials used for example, for vape atomizers parts:
Polyether ether ketone (PEEK), Delrin and ULTEM. There are more but they are not cheap.  I don't know how smart it would be to use a magnet here because there might be a conflict with the driver magnet.


----------



## furyossa (May 21, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> I didn't buy the other driver modules though as I don't have soldering skills. But a friend of mine bought the ST10S Black Gold driver and soldered it into the M2 Pro and he said it sounds rather close to the original ST10S Black Gold, for much cheaper.
> 
> I'm pretty sure the sound is influenced more than the driver though, even the earbud shell shape, vents, damping materials and shell materials will for sure influence the sound, even with the same driver.


100% correct answer. It's simple: *different shell = different sound* although it is the same driver. Also, even if we have the same shell but different size of inner cavity, again the sound will not be the same.


----------



## shenshen

furyossa said:


> 100% correct answer. It's simple: *different shell = different sound* although it is the same driver. Also, even if we have the same shell but different size of inner cavity, again the sound will not be the same.


Exactly, this is honestly precisely why the DIY earbud scene flourishes to the extent it does and why I find this realm of audio so damn interesting.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 22, 2021)

furyossa said:


> 100% correct answer. It's simple: *different shell = different sound* although it is the same driver. Also, even if we have the same shell but different size of inner cavity, again the sound will not be the same.





shenshen said:


> Exactly, this is honestly precisely why the DIY earbud scene flourishes to the extent it does and why I find this realm of audio so damn interesting.


I am trying to find the article and the name of the speaker-designer which escapes me at the moment (the ole' gray matter failing me) but he commented that consumers would be very surprised (and in some cases royally pissed off) to know that: one, that many speaker manufacturers actually use the same drivers (or the same driver materials) as there is really not as wide of a choice in the supply-chain than one would believe and two, that most of these drivers (whether manufactured, custom-built, or in-house made) measure incredibly similar to one another and if carefully matched and tuned properly can be from completely different sources, easily fooling consumers' ears. He went on to say that the magic begins with the enclosure... the shape, size, and design utilized and how the driver is implemented. I probably have bastardized what he had said but hope I got the spirit of what he was trying to get across. I would be interested in hearing how accurate his comments are in regards to limited supply and enclosure design being paramount as it appears to be the same case with DIY earbuds.


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> I am trying to find the article and the name of the speaker-designer which escapes me at the moment (the ole' gray matter failing me) but he commented that consumers would be very surprised (and in some cases royally pissed off) to know that: one, that many speaker manufacturers actually use the same drivers (or the same driver materials) as there is really not as wide of a choice in the supply-chain than one would believe and two, that most of these drivers (whether manufactured, custom-built, or in-house made) measure incredibly similar to one another and if carefully matched and tuned properly can be from completely different sources, easily fooling consumers' ears. He went on to say that the magic begins with the enclosure... the shape, size, and design utilized and how the driver is implemented. I probably have bastardized what he had said but hope I got the spirit of what he was trying to get across. I would be interested in hearing how accurate his comments are in regards to limited supply and enclosure design being paramount as it appears to be the same case with DIY earbuds.


When we take a closer look at the shape of earbuds and how the whole system works, we can freely say that they are the closest to loudspeakers aka the miniature speakers.
The driver itself is placed on the outside and the enclosure, i.e. the shell, is designed so:
#1 the pressure on the back of the driver is properly regulated via the vent system which allows free movement of the diaphragm in an enclosed space
#2 size and shape of inner cavity should be designed to not allow direct reflection of back sound waves into the driver which cause vibration


----------



## Tapir Tost

furyossa said:


> When we take a closer look at the shape of earbuds and how the whole system works, we can freely say that they are the closest to loudspeakers aka the miniature speakers.
> The driver itself is placed on the outside and the enclosure, i.e. the shell, is designed so:
> #1 the pressure on the back of the driver is properly regulated via the vent system which allows free movement of the diaphragm in an enclosed space
> #2 size and shape of inner cavity should be designed to not allow direct reflection of back sound waves into the driver which cause vibration


So which of the current earbuds/shells are designed the best in your opinion? I've been reading this thread the past few days, and you seem to know a lot.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Tapir Tost said:


> So which of the current earbuds/shells are designed the best in your opinion? I've been reading this thread the past few days, and you seem to know a lot.


I dont think there is a best design out there, otherwise everyone would be using it.

What does seems to be true however, is that these TOTL/high-tier buds rarely use MX500/PK shells and they tend to be more "bell" shaped (K, Moondrop, Yincrow, ETC) . So these bell shaped design should be better than MX500/PK shells judging from that.


----------



## furyossa (May 22, 2021)

Tapir Tost said:


> So which of the current earbuds/shells are designed the best in your opinion? I've been reading this thread the past few days, and you seem to know a lot.


Probably most used shells in earbud world are MX500 by Sennheiser (supports 15.4mm drivers) I always had problem with it to get good fit so if I have to choose buds with this driver size then I prefer more "bell" or "funnel" shaped type with short stem. This shape also allows for a double way of wearing (upright and over the ears).
Current comfort and fit "KING" is K's Bell lineup.





Similar plastic shell with "Bell" shape (FAAEAL Z-Sound)




Now "funnel" shaped type is more widespread and is divided into 3 subgroups:
- convex arc > characteristic shape for TONEKING lineup, Astrotec Lyra etc.
- angled shape > some models from Moondrop use this form
- concave arc > this shape provide the best fit and can be seen in models such as: Smabat M2 Pro, HE150Pro, TY Hi-z F32MT, HIFI BOY Dream etc





If we look at for example the classic type of shells such as MX500 there are several models of shells worth mentioning, comfort and fit wise

DP100 by Beyerdynamic  provide slightly better fit than MX500




And below you can see the winners
K314P by AKG




Another very interesting pair of buds that provide great comfort and fit are Quan39 aka. "sleeping" buds and Quan69




As for 14.8mm driver size one of the most popular shell is PK.




But IMO, one of the most comfortable shells with an almost perfect fit and a great vent system is DOCOMO shell. Hands down!




BTW ... If you are interested in different type of shells you can check amazing post by Mr. @WoodyLuvr


----------



## Lionlian

Can't recommend the 'Faaeal Datura Pro' enough

.... its love's presentation and timbre is  'Goddess of Love'


----------



## furyossa

Lionlian said:


> Can't recommend the 'Faaeal Datura Pro' enough
> 
> .... its love's presentation and timbre is  'Goddess of Love'


I assume you use compensation file with EQ?


----------



## Lionlian

yes perfect with my own EQ and mid-bass boots


----------



## povidlo

Breaking News: Toneking releases matching cable for 🐍


----------



## FranQL (May 22, 2021)

povidlo said:


> Breaking News: Toneking releases matching cable for 🐍


What a bargain .... they will take it off your hands!

37 €..... Fat like Fernando Alonso's neck


----------



## RikudouGoku

povidlo said:


> Breaking News: Toneking releases matching cable for 🐍


The price seems pretty overpriced though...

And I really dont like how thick it is, should be quite heavy and with buds thats a no go for me at least....




Although it looks like people prefer 8 core cables slightly over 4 cores.


----------



## furyossa (May 22, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> The price seems pretty overpriced though...
> 
> And I really dont like how thick it is, should be quite heavy and with buds thats a no go for me at least....
> 
> ...


Yup. They prefer 8 core because they use it also for IEMS.
About TONEKING cable.

CKLewis Audio Store sales TONEKING cable for $45. Now when we look price for every individual parts things goes like this.
Plugs that this cable use is similar to this one https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001640204606.html
But let's grab whole set of parts, price is around *$12* https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002616144212.html
Now the cable that TONEKING use is 7N Single Crystal Copper Silver-Plated 8- strand *200-core*. On Ali there are many cables with same specs but instead 200, they use 152 cores, and this is the cable who looks like TONEKING and sales in the same store for *$3.5* https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32972271590.html.
So the cable with parts cost around $15. How much does it cost to assemble this cable? $30 ? Come on, men!


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Yup. They prefer 8 core because they use it also for IEMS.
> About TONEKING cable.
> 
> CKLewis Audio Store sales TONEKING cable for $45. Now when we look price for every individual parts things goes like this.
> ...


Yeah, very overpriced cable.

If you need a cable, I recommend the ones by XINHS: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/910746107
High build quality, very low resistance and cheaper than other cables (They are the OEM for a lot of other brands like Kbear, NiceHCK). You can also ask them to make custom cables for you.


----------



## FranQL

Legend has it that Tony Stark personally rides them using only his toes, hence the cost.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 22, 2021)

A 'head's up' that I have added a _picture hyperlink_ to every known *noSounD-Blur* earbud model listed on my *timeline* in the Blur Earbuds Lovers thread.


----------



## Ronion

My question is: why did the mx500 shell become so popular?

I’m not an ear bud expert by any means, but it’s not the most ergonomically shaped shell.  It must have sound quality advantages over more ergonomic shells?


----------



## furyossa (May 24, 2021)

Ronion said:


> My question is: why did the mx500 shell become so popular?
> 
> I’m not an ear bud expert by any means, but it’s not the most ergonomically shaped shell.  It must have sound quality advantages over more ergonomic shells?


I asked myself the same question. I don't see the reason why. First, Sennheiser has a couple earbuds comparing them to say Sony and Aiwa, which IMO are more comfortable, have a better fit and many of them even have a better vent system.

Now let's analyze design of MX500 shell




MX500 is a symmetrical shell, the stem is positioned in the middle of the vertical axis.
1. "Head" of the shell have vents on both side which play the most significant role in tuning.
2. The area that should be sealed with black "horseshoe" foam. In some cases this foam is placed on the back of the driver.
   You can find more about this on the "DIY earbuds" thread.
3. This indentation on the shell contributes to a better fit. The Tagus aligns with it and the shell can get closer to the ear canal.
4. Fake vent canal which is sealed at the top.
5. The main canal for the cable.

I will mention a few things that could help improve this but also many other shells
A slight movement of the stem from the central axis would allow a deeper placement in the ear.
DP100 shell follow this example but AKG K314P, in addition, has an indentation in the shell which will be perfect combo
On the illustration below, on the left, we see when the stem is not aligned with center i.e. symmetry axis, the shell can go a bit deeper.




Another thing related to stem. Fake vent canal can be used for thicker cables because it has a larger diameter, and actual cable canal can be used as a bass vent.
Image below shows two examples where fake vent is drilled
On the left image, the fake vent is used for cable and 2nd vent has tube insert which reduce vent diameter
On the right image, the fake vent is sealed with foam.
BTW... The red shrink tube is used here to completely seal the cable hole and at the same time prevents the cable from unwinding.


----------



## Sam L

furyossa said:


> I asked myself the same question. I don't see the reason why. First, Sennheiser has a couple earbuds comparing them to say Sony and Aiwa, which IMO are more comfortable, have a better fit and many of them even have a better vent system.
> 
> Now let's analyze design of MX500 shell
> 
> ...


We need to put these posts from @furyossa in some sort of reference area and make them mandatory reading for new fans of earbuds... so much good information.


----------



## Alex W

Have any of you beautiful people tried out the Hessian ansata pro and the Jcally ep09 yet?


----------



## 1clearhead

Alex W said:


> Have any of you beautiful people tried out the Hessian ansata pro and the Jcally ep09 yet?


Yup! I have the JCALLY EP09.

...But, I haven't tried the Ansata Pro.


----------



## Alex W

1clearhead said:


> Yup! I have the JCALLY EP09.
> 
> ...But, I haven't tried the Ansata Pro.


I saw your impressions a few pages back, what do you think of them now that you've had them for a while?


----------



## rincewind

Hi All. I'm interested in buying a PK1. I've been using the PK3 forever but the housing finally cracked. I always wanted to try the PK1 as the reviews sound right up my alley (clear, slightly warm, full sound without any harshness). I'm mostly interested in the PK1 versus anything newer that's come out, because (with the full foam pads) the PK3 fit my ears perfectly and I don't want to mess about with other bids that might not fit me very well.... better the devil you know!

Is the PK1 still a good choice in 2021? (I understand that I'll need an amp to get the best out of it).


----------



## vLEGIONv

Nothing constructive, but my mmcx collection grows. Kind of wish I could get into the mx500 life, but build quality and detacheable cables are tooimportant for me to give up. Current collection is smabat ST10s gold, yincrow rw 1000 bass pro, dendroaspis viridis, tone king 600, and toneking 400s. Anyone got any recs on some new hotness?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

vLEGIONv said:


> Nothing constructive, but my mmcx collection grows. Kind of wish I could get into the mx500 life, but build quality and detacheable cables are tooimportant for me to give up. Current collection is smabat ST10s gold, yincrow rw 1000 bass pro, dendroaspis viridis, tone king 600, and toneking 400s. Anyone got any recs on some new hotness?


You seek *Smabat SUPER ONE* and *Smabat M2s PRO*


----------



## RikudouGoku

vLEGIONv said:


> Nothing constructive, but my mmcx collection grows. Kind of wish I could get into the mx500 life, but build quality and detacheable cables are tooimportant for me to give up. Current collection is smabat ST10s gold, yincrow rw 1000 bass pro, dendroaspis viridis, tone king 600, and toneking 400s. Anyone got any recs on some new hotness?


As @WoodyLuvr said, the Smabat Super One and the M2S Pro just got released. I say its best to wait for reviews on them, especially since Im getting them. 

The Yincrow RW-2000 is also another pretty new release, but since you already got the RW-1000 bass pro, it might be redundant for you to get the RW-2000.


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> You seek *Smabat SUPER ONE* and *Smabat M2s PRO*


Easy answer


----------



## vLEGIONv

Damn, those super one's are making me feel some type of way just on the looks department. The m2s is a curious concept though, did they heavily support the original with different   drivers?


----------



## 1clearhead

Alex W said:


> I saw your impressions a few pages back, what do you think of them now that you've had them for a while?


I'm still amazed and happy with the EP09 and its awesome resolution. The EP09 are so affordable that I bought an extra pair just to have as a spare.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

vLEGIONv said:


> Damn, those super one's are making me feel some type of way just on the looks department. The m2s is a curious concept though, did they heavily support the original with different   drivers?


Did you ever listen to the original modular earbud version the Smabat M2 Pro? Also, fairly recent are the ****** PT2021 (in multiple impedance versions 32/147/275/365Ω) and the NiceHCK EBX21.


----------



## renatopdalencar

vLEGIONv said:


> Nothing constructive, but my mmcx collection grows. Kind of wish I could get into the mx500 life, but build quality and detacheable cables are tooimportant for me to give up. Current collection is smabat ST10s gold, yincrow rw 1000 bass pro, dendroaspis viridis, tone king 600, and toneking 400s. Anyone got any recs on some new hotness?


Which of those would you say has the best bass for hip-hop/rap music, and how would you compare it to to the Yincrow X6 and the Willsound MK2?


----------



## Alex W

1clearhead said:


> I'm still amazed and happy with the EP09 and its awesome resolution. The EP09 are so affordable that I bought an extra pair just to have as a spare.


The hype is real then, I'll just have to wait for someone to try out the Ansata pros and see which ones better.


----------



## RikudouGoku

hmmm





(Smabat M2S Pro)


Just noticed that it seems you can change the mesh yourself, which leads me to wonder if you can replace it with tuning foams.




https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002585238170.html


No idea what that is?

Well, its the implementation that Sony uses on pretty much all their "audiophile" iems.



(Sony MDR-EX800ST)

They basically tune the iem to have a lot of treble from the beginning, then they use the foam to cut it down.



(filterless = green, foam in the nozzle = red)

So if the M2S Pro has too much treble, this might be the same solution. Just remove the mesh and put in some tuning foam, or even just regular bud foam should work if you cut it in a smaller piece I guess.


----------



## assassin10000

RikudouGoku said:


> hmmm
> 
> 
> (Smabat M2S Pro)
> ...



Nope, doesn't work that way.

It's behind the driver and will affect mid-bass and upper mids/lower treble.


The Sony IEMs has theirs in the nozzle or in front of the driver.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> hmmm
> 
> 
> (Smabat M2S Pro)
> ...


It's easy to make this foam plugs from different materials. Anyway nice find


----------



## RikudouGoku

assassin10000 said:


> Nope, doesn't work that way.
> 
> It's behind the driver and will affect mid-bass and upper mids/lower treble.
> 
> ...


hahah, damn.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> hahah, damn.


   @assassin10000 see and knows the best


----------



## vLEGIONv

renatopdalencar said:


> Which of those would you say has the best bass for hip-hop/rap music, and how would you compare it to to the Yincrow X6 and the Willsound MK2?


I don't have a frame of reference for the x6 or the mk2.  I'll reply later tonight to this after I get home and A/B test for ya however


----------



## jogawag (May 24, 2021)

rincewind said:


> Hi All. I'm interested in buying a PK1. I've been using the PK3 forever but the housing finally cracked. I always wanted to try the PK1 as the reviews sound right up my alley (clear, slightly warm, full sound without any harshness). I'm mostly interested in the PK1 versus anything newer that's come out, because (with the full foam pads) the PK3 fit my ears perfectly and I don't want to mess about with other bids that might not fit me very well.... better the devil you know!
> 
> Is the PK1 still a good choice in 2021? (I understand that I'll need an amp to get the best out of it).


Yuin PK1 is available at Penon Audio, a reputable store.
https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/yuin-pk1.html

But look at this thread's author's Earbuds ranking from 5 years ago.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wGTZnKX1aP29c1bzs5JWgqSUlPzZqV9p_cw79VfRBpQ/pub
And this is Japanese Blogger's Earbuds ranking.
http://headphonemetal.ldblog.jp/archives/52320906.html
According to these ranking, Shozy Cygnus, which uses the exact same PK Shell, has a higher rating.

I also had the DIY earbuds of PK1 150ohm redfilm driver and the Shozy Cygnus, and I liked the Shozy Cygnus better because it didn't need an amp and it had a warmer, sparklier sound.
However, the cable of Shozy Cygnus turns green. If that doesn't bother you, I'd recommend this.
https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/shozy-cygnus.html


----------



## renatopdalencar

vLEGIONv said:


> I don't have a frame of reference for the x6 or the mk2.  I'll reply later tonight to this after I get home and A/B test for ya however


Thank you!


----------



## vLEGIONv

renatopdalencar said:


> Thank you!


ST10s black gold>yincrow bass pro>tone king 600> tone king 400 > toneking dendro aspis viridis  for bass alone.
The yincrow's are very close bass wise to the st10s, but they pale in comparison over all to the st10's, and imo, are the weakest sounding objectively of the ones that I own. They're not bad, but they're also nothing special in comparison. The dendro's should be immediately thrown out of the picture even though they're my most used earbuds for overall use lol.



WoodyLuvr said:


> Did you ever listen to the original modular earbud version the Smabat M2 Pro? Also, fairly recent are the ****** PT2021 (in multiple impedance versions 32/147/275/365Ω) and the NiceHCK EBX21.


I saw them when i first started picking earbuds up, but avoided them because i couldn't find much in aftermarket support. Those ****'s look really good, any idea of the general consensus of those?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 24, 2021)

vLEGIONv said:


> Those ****'s look really good, any idea of the general consensus of those?


*@ClieOS *spoke well of them and advises a higher impedance version if you have the power... since his post *here* there have been two (2) more impedance models added to the line 147Ω and 275Ω. Here are other posts where he mentions them: Post #1 and Post #2

A brief description directly from @ClieOS: _"a little bit on the bright and analytical side, but not strictly a reference flat sound. Overall a very good sounding earbud for the price and could have almost compete with earbuds double the price."_


----------



## renatopdalencar (May 24, 2021)

.


----------



## renatopdalencar

vLEGIONv said:


> ST10s black gold>yincrow bass pro>tone king 600> tone king 400 > toneking dendro aspis viridis  for bass alone.
> The yincrow's are very close bass wise to the st10s, but they pale in comparison over all to the st10's, and imo, are the weakest sounding objectively of the ones that I own. They're not bad, but they're also nothing special in comparison. The dendro's should be immediately thrown out of the picture even though they're my most used earbuds for overall use lol.
> 
> 
> I saw them when i first started picking earbuds up, but avoided them because i couldn't find much in aftermarket support. Those ****'s look really good, any idea of the general consensus of those?


The st10s it is, then. Thank you very much for the effort


----------



## vLEGIONv

renatopdalencar said:


> The ST10s it is, then. Thank you very much for the effort


make sure you pick up the black golds. They're 150 ohm and sound vastly different to the other variants. They are significantly more expensive however.


----------



## assassin10000 (May 24, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> hahah, damn.


Yep. Sorry I had to burst your bubble.

Just use full foams (or double) if you need to to slightly alter treble. The other option is to go to less dense foam at the rear or more open shell/vent. This could cause pinna gain to disappear though.



furyossa said:


> @assassin10000 see and knows the best


I figured one of us would catch it. 



jogawag said:


> Yuin PK1 is available at Penon Audio, a reputable store.
> https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/yuin-pk1.html
> 
> But look at this thread's author's Earbuds ranking from 5 years ago.
> ...



@rincewind 
Ditto, I'd order from Penon if you want a legitimate PK1. They also have an AE store now iirc.


----------



## vLEGIONv

WoodyLuvr said:


> *@ClieOS *spoke well of them and advises a higher impedance version if you have the power... since his post *here* there have been two (2) more impedance models added to the line 147Ω and 275Ω. Here are other posts where he mentions them: Post #1 and Post #2
> 
> A brief description directly from @ClieOS: _"a little bit on the bright and analytical side, but not strictly a reference flat sound. Overall a very good sounding earbud for the price and could have almost compete with earbuds double the price."_


Glad i'm not the only person that's using earbuds on utws3's haha. I just picked up a second pair to permanently keep a pair on. Thanks for all the recommendations, lots of new stuff on my radar.


----------



## renatopdalencar

vLEGIONv said:


> make sure you pick up the black golds. They're 150 ohm and sound vastly different to the other variants. They are significantly more expensive however.


Then I guess I'll need to upgrade my sources. I currently use my earbuds either directly on my phone (OnePlus 5T) or through a Sonata HD Pro.


----------



## vLEGIONv

renatopdalencar said:


> Then I guess I'll need to upgrade my sources. I currently use my earbuds either directly on my phone (OnePlus 5T) or through a Sonata HD Pro.


they're sensitive enough to be driven by my motorola one ace. Use it as a dap that I can watch memes on . A sonata HD pro would work totally fine, and is what I used prior to picking up a qudelix, but they're driven to a comfortable volume by just 3.5 on a phone. Often use it in bed and I can't be assed to lose an adapter underneath my bed.


----------



## furyossa

vLEGIONv said:


> they're sensitive enough to be driven by my motorola one ace. Use it as a dap that I can watch memes on . A sonata HD pro would work totally fine, and is what I used prior to picking up a qudelix, but they're driven to a comfortable volume by just 3.5 on a phone. Often use it in bed and I can't be assed to lose an adapter underneath my bed.


The only problem with OnePlus 5T and Sonata HD will be fast drain of 3300mAh battery. Of course, the best solution so far has been offered by LG with its integrated QuadDAC chip, but recently the LG company decided to stop further development and production of mobile devices. Another non-budget solution are Sony Xperia 1 lineup or a bit budget friendly Xperia 5 and 10 lineup.
This year, many smartphone companies have started competing with each other in the term of larger battery capacity. There are currently several budget phones that would be a great solution for use with any dongle DAC / AMP. 
- Samsung Galaxy M51, M62, F62 (7000mAh)
- Motorola Moto G60, G10 Power, G40 Fusion (6000mAh)
and of course there are many 5000mAh models


----------



## MelodyMood (May 25, 2021)

*Hi Friends. I am looking for 1-2 earbuds to buy. I already have FiiO EM3S, Monk+, Yincraow X6, Musicmaker TP 16, Nicehck B40, and FAAEL Iris. I also had **** MS500. That was Ok too but lost. And had EdifierP180 too but that is lost too.  All were/are with Mic only. Monk+ I bought 2nd time and it is also broken. Yincrow Mic does no work  anymore. FiiO is good but I found that the cable is not that good and tangle a lot. Is there any suggestions which has at par sound quality of TP16 and Iris. I liked these two really much. Yincrow sound is good too but it is broken. Mic is most important factor for me to buy. I like Warm sound with good details and not harsh . And good Bass or even sub-bass is good. I wanted to buy TY Hi-Z 32 especially the red cable one but none is available with Mic. My budget is not  very high so $5 to 15-20 is good range though. Thanks.*


----------



## MelodyMood

MelodyMood said:


> *Hi Friends. I am looking for 1-2 earbuds to buy. I already have FiiO EM3S, Monk+, Yincraow X6, Musicmaker TP 16, Nicehck B40, and FAAEL Iris. I also had **** MS500. That was Ok too but lost. And had EdifierP180 too but that is lost too.  All were/are with Mic only. Monk+ I bought 2nd time and it is also broken. Yincrow Mic does no work  anymore. FiiO is good but I found that the cable is not that good and tangle a lot. Is there any suggestions which has at par sound quality of TP16 and Iris. I liked these two really much. Yincrow sound is good too but it is broken. Mic is most important factor for me to buy. I like Warm sound with good details and not harsh . And good Bass or even sub-bass is good. I wanted to buy TY Hi-Z 32 especially the red cable one but none is available with Mic. My budget is not  very high so $5 to 15-20 is good range though. Thanks.*



I was considering KBear Stellar  but seems the reviews are not that great so I am not sure. The comparison was done with the earbuds I do not have so not sure if it is good or not?


----------



## furyossa

MelodyMood said:


> I was considering KBear Stellar  but seems the reviews are not that great so I am not sure. The comparison was done with the earbuds I do not have so not sure if it is good or not?


RY4S Plus or RY4S 300ohm version if you have DAC/Amp device
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html


----------



## MelodyMood

furyossa said:


> RY4S Plus or RY4S 300ohm version if you have DAC/Amp device
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html


I do not have DAC. I use Mobile Phone and PowerrAmp to listen to the music. This one is not with cable. Is there any version with cable? Are they good? I saw few RYgmr also. Not  sure if they are same or what? This one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/327...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


----------



## furyossa

MelodyMood said:


> I do not have DAC. I use Mobile Phone and PowerrAmp to listen to the music. This one is not with cable. Is there any version with cable? Are they good? I saw few RYgmr also. Not  sure if they are same or what? This one:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/327...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


No is not the same and you have on RY store a bunch of cheap cables which I also use and I don't have any problem with them. RY4S Plus are one of the best pair of buds you can get for $7


----------



## MelodyMood

furyossa said:


> No is not the same and you have on RY store a bunch of cheap cables which I also use and I don't have any problem with them. RY4S Plus are one of the best pair of buds you can get for $7


RY4S Plus means the one you shared? But it does not even have cable. I know that we can buy cable and fix this and remove also, but then it may come out every now and then. or not? Also, Is there any link to Philip SHE3800 with Mic?


----------



## MelodyMood

Also, the Monk+ available with other vendors (not VE Clan), different and better quality and sound than original one?


----------



## uneri (Jun 24, 2021)

‎


----------



## jogawag (May 25, 2021)

MelodyMood said:


> Also, the Monk+ available with other vendors (not VE Clan), different and better quality and sound than original one?


I don't think the Monk+ makes any difference by the vendor.

How about a RY4S Plus with a red MMCX cable with mic?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002103784716.html


----------



## Question2

I've been using yuin pk2s for over a decade and i really like the sound signature. A piece of the plastic covering the earbud fell off today and i'm thinking it might be time to get a new pair.

Are there any alternatives to yuin pk2s that you guys could suggest in the same price range ($55-60)? Neutral sound, does not need an amp, must be comfy earbuds (no IEMs).


----------



## dachswerk

The 1more e1008 is again in stock on miberia.com at the same discounted price. Yes, I did order another one 😁


----------



## chompy (May 25, 2021)

dachswerk said:


> The 1more e1008 is again in stock on miberia.com at the same discounted price. Yes, I did order another one 😁


Thanks, how would you describe their sound signature? Flat, V shaped, U shaped, L shaped, midcentric...?


----------



## Question2

dachswerk said:


> The 1more e1008 is again in stock on miberia.com at the same discounted price. Yes, I did order another one 😁


Any idea how they compare to yuin pk2s?


----------



## dachswerk

chompy said:


> Thanks, how would you describe their sound signature? Flat, V shaped, U shaped, L shaped, midcentric...?


V shaped. Definitely works for hip hop, electronic music and pop. Probably the best allarounder in my earbud collection.


Question2 said:


> Any idea how they compare to yuin pk2s?


Haven't heard the Yuin PK2. Still a grasshopper in this rabbit hole of earbuds.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Yet another creation by Master Wong... the *Blur White 美魔女 Beautiful Witch (300Ω)*

*


*


----------



## RikudouGoku

I just saw something interesting:



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002690240637.html

DD + piezo driver?

Could this perhaps be used in a bud? Does NSC Audio store make custom buds for you based on the drivers/shells they got? Or do they only sell DIY parts?


----------



## iemhater (May 25, 2021)

Hello everyone, I am back unfortunately.

I found the FAAEAL Datura Pro based off the recommendations here and from @Sam L I got equalizer settings that made the sound quality really good.

However, it didn't even last 4 months. I noticed the right side stopped working, and the grill was extremely loose. So I gave it a tug and it just popped out...





I am extremely disappointed that these buds seem to have the driver glued on, it doesn't even seem to be screwed on... My sub $10 earbuds all lasted longer than 4 months. The left side is loose too but still has sound.

Is this repairable? Did the usage of an equalizer cause this?

Any recommendations for something that will last longer than 4 months?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Well, I sent a message to NSC audio store and asked if they can assemble this driver:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002690240637.html

Along with this shell:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000402828733.html

If they can and wont charge much of an assembly fee, we are looking at a 20 usd dd + piezo bud with mmcx connectors with a metal mx500 build....yeah, too good to pass if possible lol.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> I just saw something interesting:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002690240637.html
> 
> ...


Can be used for earbuds but you need additional work here. First you need a deeper shell because this driver seams to be thicker. To get 14.8 or 15.4mm diameter you can use double side foamy tape or shrink tube.
BTW ... This driver is used for this type of IEM like Onkyo E700M (13.6mm)






I don't know if NSC Audio store assemble the buds on request but Chitty's Store store assembles models from their custom parts


----------



## dachswerk

furyossa said:


> Can be used for earbuds but you need additional work here. First you need a deeper shell because this driver seams to be thicker. To get 14.8 or 15.4mm diameter you can use double side foamy tape or shrink tube.
> BTW ... This driver is used for this type of IEM like Onkyo E700M (13.6mm)
> 
> 
> ...


3D printed shell maybe?


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Can be used for earbuds but you need additional work here. First you need a deeper shell because this driver seams to be thicker. To get 14.8 or 15.4mm diameter you can use double side foamy tape or shrink tube.
> BTW ... This driver is used for this type of IEM like Onkyo E700M (13.6mm)
> 
> 
> ...


Another iem I dont know lol. 


We see about NSC when they reply to me tomorrow I guess. Chitty doesnt seem to have that driver though.


----------



## furyossa

iemhater said:


> Hello everyone, I am back unfortunately.
> 
> I found the FAAEAL Datura Pro based off the recommendations here and from @Sam L I got equalizer settings that made the sound quality really good.
> 
> ...


I bought my model about 2 years ago, and it's in excellent condition for now.
If they were loose from the start then it was Faaeal’s fault but If you have used them often in the past 4 months it happens from moisture that the driver peels off
BTW... the driver is always glued to the cover and not screwed.


----------



## furyossa

dachswerk said:


> 3D printed shell maybe?


Maybe   Not need for this driver because you can find right shell for this driver in DIY store on Ali


----------



## furyossa (May 25, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Another iem I dont know lol.
> 
> 
> We see about NSC when they reply to me tomorrow I guess. Chitty doesnt seem to have that driver though.


Onkyo E700M is a classic. It's looks similar to Sony MDR-EX90LP but is different. I already describe Superlux HD381 which is modeled after Sony.
BTW...HD381 has a way better tuning than E700M

Anyway see this posts on DIY earbuds for 13mm drivers. They are not designed for MX500 shells and don't expect too much. Sorry   
And this is how HD318 looks inside


----------



## iemhater

furyossa said:


> I bought my model about 2 years ago, and it's in excellent condition for now.
> If they were loose from the start then it was Faaeal’s fault but If you have used them often in the past 4 months it happens from moisture that the driver peels off
> BTW... the driver is always glued to the cover and not screwed.



They can't all be glued right? I don't see how any of these buds could last if they are all glued.


----------



## PapyKahan

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yet another creation by Master Wong... the *Blur White 美魔女 Beautiful Witch (300Ω)*
> 
> **


Yup they are mine . Master Wong will send them to me after some burning.


----------



## furyossa

iemhater said:


> They can't all be glued right? I don't see how any of these buds could last if they are all glued.


Believe me , it can. Moisture and heat are mostly the biggest culprit, it happened to me with sleeping buds because I often press the bud against the pillow and then moisture is created. The cover came loose and the plus driver inside completely fell apart


----------



## iemhater

furyossa said:


> Believe me , it can. Moisture and heat are mostly the biggest culprit, it happened to me with sleeping buds because I often press the bud against the pillow and then moisture is created. The cover came loose and the plus driver inside completely fell apart



Wouldn't it be possible to solder these things shut or use hotglue to seal plastic ones to prevent this from happening? Glue just seems really weak to me.


----------



## furyossa

iemhater said:


> Wouldn't it be possible to solder these things shut or use hotglue to seal plastic ones to prevent this from happening? Glue just seems really weak to me.


Yup if you have good soldering skills. It's a bit tricky because you break voice coil thin wire. This is the same process, but for a bigger driver


----------



## james444

furyossa said:


> BTW ... This driver is used for this type of IEM like Onkyo E700M (13.6mm)



For example Artiste DC1:


----------



## furyossa

james444 said:


> For example Artiste DC1:


Exactly. This diver will not work correctly with "flat head" buds. Construction of the driver is too closed compared with 14.8mm and 15.4mm drivers (different vent system).


----------



## MelodyMood

uneri said:


> JCALLY JC10 is warm sounding and has mic, though I've never tried the mic myself so I can't confirm how's the quality of it
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001762616120.html
> 
> You can also check out Faaeal's latest release called Iris Ancestor, and these come with mic too
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002637013596.html


Thanks. Both looking good. Only question for JCally JC10, it seems that is has open back. Is there lots of sound goes out due to this? I mean people can hear what I am listening?


----------



## MelodyMood

dachswerk said:


> The 1more e1008 is again in stock on miberia.com at the same discounted price. Yes, I did order another one 😁


Are they really good? I noticed that cpl of times but never thought of buying. Slightly expensive at Euro 20 too for me.


----------



## MelodyMood

jogawag said:


> I don't think the Monk+ makes any difference by the vendor.
> 
> How about a RY4S Plus with a red MMCX cable with mic?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002103784716.html


Ok. I found Monk+ with other Brand like Olivian etc. so thought they are better build quality and may be slightly better sound or bass. 

For MMCX Cable or MMCX Plus, do I need to buy cable separately? Hope once fixed, the shell does not come out by just normal using and taking out from ear and so?


----------



## MelodyMood

uneri said:


> JCALLY JC10 is warm sounding and has mic, though I've never tried the mic myself so I can't confirm how's the quality of it
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001762616120.html
> 
> You can also check out Faaeal's latest release called Iris Ancestor, and these come with mic too
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002637013596.html


FAAEL Iris Ancestor looks good. I have Iris version and it is very good. Though, the price difference is big but I am sure it will be good as well. Did you try them? Both?


----------



## jogawag (May 26, 2021)

Question2 said:


> I've been using yuin pk2s for over a decade and i really like the sound signature. A piece of the plastic covering the earbud fell off today and i'm thinking it might be time to get a new pair.
> 
> Are there any alternatives to yuin pk2s that you guys could suggest in the same price range ($55-60)? Neutral sound, does not need an amp, must be comfy earbuds (no IEMs).


If you like the Yuin PK2 so much, it would be wise to buy it again, as there is nothing better for you and there is no need to risk buying another earbuds.

But if you "really do" want to try new another earbuds in that price range, I recommend the Ksearphone LBBS (Little Black Bell S) which has Neutral sound, not needs an amp, is comfy earbuds.

The LBBS is the second color option (Little Black Bell S) on the following page.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002442599536.html


----------



## jogawag

MelodyMood said:


> Ok. I found Monk+ with other Brand like Olivian etc. so thought they are better build quality and may be slightly better sound or bass.
> 
> For MMCX Cable or MMCX Plus, do I need to buy cable separately? Hope once fixed, the shell does not come out by just normal using and taking out from ear and so?


The advantage of buying MMCX cables and MMCX earbuds separately is that if you don't like one of them or if it fails, you can simply replace one of them.
Another advantage is that once the shell is in place, it will not come off with normal use or removal from the ear, but will only come off if the cable is subjected to a force that causes it to break.


----------



## MelodyMood

jogawag said:


> The advantage of buying MMCX cables and MMCX earbuds separately is that if you don't like one of them or if it fails, you can simply replace one of them.
> Another advantage is that once the shell is in place, it will not come off with normal use or removal from the ear, but will only come off if the cable is subjected to a force that causes it to break.


Ok. Got it. But in this earbud, do I need to order the able separately? And then I can order any cable which looks good and have good build quality?


----------



## baskingshark (May 26, 2021)

jogawag said:


> The advantage of buying MMCX cables and MMCX earbuds separately is that if you don't like one of them or if it fails, you can simply replace one of them.
> Another advantage is that once the shell is in place, it will not come off with normal use or removal from the ear, but will only come off if the cable is subjected to a force that causes it to break.



+1 to this

Last night I was happily listening to my Yincrow RW2000 in bliss on my desktop setup for about 3 hours. It was just past midnight and I dozed off listening to some slow jazz. As my head lobbed to one side falling asleep, my whole body yanked on the cable and caused a rip in the cable. Thankfully, that was an aftermarket 8 core NiceHCK cable (costs around $7 USD). I thank the audio gods that this set is detachable. I would have been heartbroken if it was a TOTL ear bud with a non detachable cable!!!

I know the argument that non detachable cable earbuds are not that big of an issue if one uses them at home in "safer" conditions, but as we can see, things happen, and non detachable gear can be one awkward yank away from being a white elephant (this incident was my fault though).

Anyways, this incident has reinforced my own personal guideline, not to buy any gear > $50 USD that has non detachable cables, no matter how good they sound.


----------



## sfrsfr

Hi everyone! 
I was listening for about two weeks now to the SFR PT2021 365 ohm version, powered by E1DA PowerDac v2. I think the buds are excellent. 
To my ears the sound is balanced, airy and well extended on both ends. The bass is there and quite well-controlled. For the first about 100 hours, there were some harsh peaks, but after burn in, they seem to be mostly gone.
Also I tried to use the PEQ on PDv2 to make the sound more V-shaped and fun. The buds responded fairly well and the result is really pleasant to my ears.
The shells are really light and comfortable, and I quite like the design as well.

I've also got the JCALLY EP09 and I quite like it but the PT2021 is clearly another level and I believe it can compete with much more expensive buds (I currently have mostly just the cheaper good sounding buds).

I hope to find the time to write a review of them in next weeks.

Btw. the PowerDac has just enough power to drive them.

I suggest @1clearhead to get the PT2021 365 ohm. I would love to see your take on them!
​


----------



## jogawag

MelodyMood said:


> Ok. Got it. But in this earbud, do I need to order the able separately? And then I can order any cable which looks good and have good build quality?


You will need to order the cable separately for this RY4S Plus.

Did you not like this MMCX cable I recommended?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002103784716.html

I don't have the MMCX cable with mic, so if you want a different cable, please search for "MMCX cable with mic" in the Ali search field.


----------



## MelodyMood

jogawag said:


> You will need to order the cable separately for this RY4S Plus.
> 
> Did you not like this MMCX cable I recommended?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002103784716.html
> ...


This is good cable. Looks very strong and beautiful too. But along with MMCX, the cost will be around 28-30 AUD which is high for me. I was considering up to 15-20. But I also feel that it may be worth trying once. May be the sound will come out very beautiful and I really like that very much.


----------



## MelodyMood

jogawag said:


> You will need to order the cable separately for this RY4S Plus.
> 
> Did you not like this MMCX cable I recommended?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002103784716.html
> ...


RY4S does not have good colour option at lower impedence. I may go for 32 or 64 Ohms as going for higher for Phone Music is not good idea. Also, as I will buy cable with Mic, no matter which MMCX I use, it will work like Earbuds  with Mic. Right?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

PapyKahan said:


> Yup they are mine . Master Wong will send them to me after some burning.


Nice! Welcome to "the fold".  BTW we have a Blur Lover's Thread *here*


----------



## jogawag

MelodyMood said:


> RY4S does not have good colour option at lower impedence. I may go for 32 or 64 Ohms as going for higher for Phone Music is not good idea. Also, as I will buy cable with Mic, no matter which MMCX I use, it will work like Earbuds  with Mic. Right?


You are Right.

The following MMCX MX500 also has good bass.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33015623626.html

The total price for this MMCX MX500 and the following MMCX cable is $8.29 + $11.61 = $19.9, just shy of $20.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002103784716.html


----------



## assassin10000

Question2 said:


> I've been using yuin pk2s for over a decade and i really like the sound signature. A piece of the plastic covering the earbud fell off today and i'm thinking it might be time to get a new pair.
> 
> Are there any alternatives to yuin pk2s that you guys could suggest in the same price range ($55-60)? Neutral sound, does not need an amp, must be comfy earbuds (no IEMs).





jogawag said:


> If you like the Yuin PK2 so much, it would be wise to buy it again, as there is nothing better for you and there is no need to risk buying another earbuds.
> 
> But if you "really do" want to try new another earbuds in that price range, I recommend the Ksearphone LBBS (Little Black Bell S) which has Neutral sound, not needs an amp, is comfy earbuds.
> 
> ...



Unfortunately the Yuin PK2 in the last couple years has changed drivers (old supply NLA) and they reportedly do not sound the same.


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> +1 to this
> 
> Last night I was happily listening to my Yincrow RW2000 in bliss on my desktop setup for about 3 hours. It was just past midnight and I dozed off listening to some slow jazz. As my head lobbed to one side falling asleep, my whole body yanked on the cable and caused a rip in the cable. Thankfully, that was an aftermarket 8 core NiceHCK cable (costs around $7 USD). I thank the audio gods that this set is detachable. I would have been heartbroken if it was a TOTL ear bud with a non detachable cable!!!
> 
> ...


So detachable cables over $50 or not listen to the music after midnight especially in a comfy armchair. I get it


----------



## RikudouGoku

Well, rip. NSC audio store doesnt assemble the parts for you.


----------



## dachswerk

MelodyMood said:


> This is good cable. Looks very strong and beautiful too. But along with MMCX, the cost will be around 28-30 AUD which is high for me. I was considering up to 15-20. But I also feel that it may be worth trying once. May be the sound will come out very beautiful and I really like that very much.


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001265707752.html
Maybe this one. Mine is still in the mail so I don't have first hand experience with it.


----------



## MelodyMood

jogawag said:


> You are Right.
> 
> The following MMCX MX500 also has good bass.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33015623626.html
> ...


Ok. that sounds Ok. Any other MMCX which has good sound And look wise beautiful too. Like this: 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002287797578.html


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Well, rip. NSC audio store doesnt assemble the parts for you.


Do not be sad. You can always go to the Chitty's store and ask about something like this  
Mr. @ClieOS did an outstanding model here


----------



## MelodyMood

dachswerk said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001265707752.html
> Maybe this one. Mine is still in the mail so I don't have first hand experience with it.


Ok. I saw few cables are 6 Core, Frw 8 Core and 16 Cores also. How does it make difference in sound quality based on Core? More Core means better sound or better build and sound will depend on MMCX Ear-shell only?


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Do not be sad. You can always go to the Chitty's store and ask about something like this
> Mr. @ClieOS did an outstanding model here


Damn, thats a planar and its pricey!

If they have a dd + piezo combo, I might be interested though (and if the price wasnt that expensive).


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Damn, thats a planar and its pricey!
> 
> If they have a dd + piezo combo, I might be interested though (and if the price wasnt that expensive).


I have never seen such a combo in size above 14mm. For now, the most interesting offer has 10mm drivers


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> I have never seen such a combo in size above 14mm. For now, the most interesting offer has 10mm drivers


Well, the size isnt the priority for me, its the dd + piezo combo.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

furyossa said:


> Do not be sad. You can always go to the Chitty's store and ask about something like this
> Mr. @ClieOS did an outstanding model here





RikudouGoku said:


> Damn, thats a planar and its pricey!
> 
> If they have a dd + piezo combo, I might be interested though (and if the price wasnt that expensive).





RikudouGoku said:


> Well, the size isnt the priority for me, its the dd + piezo combo.


All this talk is pushing me, and hard, towards one of ArtVano's PISLO piezo-electric models.


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> All this talk is pushing me, and hard, towards one of ArtVano's PISLO piezo-electric models.


Those arent at a price I will just randomly throw money on lol.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Well, the size isnt the priority for me, its the dd + piezo combo.


I know, but driver construction is important here. You saw an example of a planar driver by @ClieOS. Both builds (wood or MX500 shell) require a lot of work and testing.
For things like this it pays to consider making a 3D printed shell


----------



## furyossa

MelodyMood said:


> Ok. I saw few cables are 6 Core, Frw 8 Core and 16 Cores also. How does it make difference in sound quality based on Core? More Core means better sound or better build and sound will depend on MMCX Ear-shell only?


No, more cores means more of trouble for the buds to stay in your ears. 4-6 cores is optimal. 
BTW...how do you expect better sound quality when you are considering buying headphones under $20. Cables can't help you here, even if it's twice as expensive. 
Just buy something already and then decide if you want to go up. Seriously


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> No, more cores means more of trouble for the buds to stay in your ears. 4-6 cores is optimal.
> BTW...how do you expect better sound quality when you are considering buying headphones under $20. Cables can't help you here, even if it's twice as expensive.
> Just buy something already and then decide if you want to go up. Seriously


The only differences more cores have on a cable is as you said, heavier weight.

BUT, if there are 2 identical cables, but one of them have more cores. The higher core version will have a lower resistance. But since buds are mainly single DD´s it doesnt really have any effect on them at all.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 3, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Those arent at a price I will just randomly throw money on lol.


Damn you for bringing me back to reality! I nearly had myself convinced and was about to justify the purchase when your post awoke me from the gripping PISLO siren song.

(EDITED: For those not in the know these are Art Vano's PISLO PXVV piezo-electric earbuds accompanied by CPWOO! a DAC/AMP tail made by Art Vano's Clot Audio. More info *here*)

What could be more inviting than this?





And the accessories... oh my! There is an afternoon waiting to be wasted right there!


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Damn you for bringing me back to reality! I nearly had myself convinced and was about to justify the purchase when your post awoke me from the gripping PISLO siren song.
> 
> What could be more inviting than this?
> 
> ...


Ok, thats pretty impressive for a bud. Probably the best accessories I have seen for buds actually...

How much where they again?


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Damn you for bringing me back to reality! I nearly had myself convinced and was about to justify the purchase when your post awoke me from the gripping PISLO siren song.
> 
> What could be more inviting than this?
> 
> ...


Yes, it all seems nice and tempting, but ....


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> Ok, thats pretty impressive for a bud. Probably the best accessories I have seen for buds actually...
> 
> How much where they again?


Apparently, from what I can gather from the Chinese audiophile forums there are more doo-dads than shown!!!


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Ok, thats pretty impressive for a bud. Probably the best accessories I have seen for buds actually...
> 
> How much where they again?


Pssss don't ask him that


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> Ok, thats pretty impressive for a bud. Probably the best accessories I have seen for buds actually...
> 
> How much where they again?





furyossa said:


> Yes, it all seems nice and tempting, but ....





furyossa said:


> Pssss don't ask him that


@RikudouGoku @furyossa No problem, really.  If I sell one of my... better yet, if I sell one of YOUR kidneys, I then can purchase three (3) pairs for each of us to enjoy!


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> @RikudouGoku @furyossa No problem, really.  If I sell one of my... better yet, if I sell one of YOUR kidneys, I then can purchase three (3) pairs for each of us to enjoy!


hahaha, you wish.


Have those PISLO buds been released yet? Guess it will be a while before they be on aliexpress. (...wonder if I can get a unit lol)


----------



## RikudouGoku

oh wow, my K buds....might arrive soon...possibly today or tomorrow.  🤤


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> hahaha, you wish.
> 
> 
> Have those PISLO buds been released yet? Guess it will be a while before they be on aliexpress. (...wonder if I can get a unit lol)


Yes, they are available via PISLO's Store on Taobao since their unofficial launch earlier this month (Early May 2021).


----------



## MelodyMood

furyossa said:


> No, more cores means more of trouble for the buds to stay in your ears. 4-6 cores is optimal.
> BTW...how do you expect better sound quality when you are considering buying headphones under $20. Cables can't help you here, even if it's twice as expensive.
> Just buy something already and then decide if you want to go up. Seriously


Ok. SO even 8 Core is more than enough in that case? Well, I thought of buying 1More from Miberia as it will cost around AUD 35. Is that very good to buy at that price? I have budget limit so cannot spend to much money in that and like    to have few buds as they often broken down or so.


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, they are available via PISLO's Store on Taobao since their unofficial launch earlier this month (Early May 2021).


Thanks, saw the price and all my interest vanished again lol.


----------



## RikudouGoku

MelodyMood said:


> Ok. SO even 8 Core is more than enough in that case? Well, I thought of buying 1More from Miberia as it will cost around AUD 35. Is that very good to buy at that price? I have budget limit so cannot spend to much money in that and like    to have few buds as they often broken down or so.


The only difference core count has with buds is how it looks and how heavy they are. Thats up to personal preference. I prefer less cores since heavier cable will bottleneck the fit.


----------



## MelodyMood

RikudouGoku said:


> The only differences more cores have on a cable is as you said, heavier weight.
> 
> BUT, if there are 2 identical cables, but one of them have more cores. The higher core version will have a lower resistance. But since buds are mainly single DD´s it doesnt really have any effect on them at all.


Ok. So 4 or  6 or max 8 cores are ok in my case. How is 1More E1008. Is it really good?


----------



## RikudouGoku

MelodyMood said:


> Ok. So 4 or  6 or max 8 cores are ok in my case. How is 1More E1008. Is it really good?


@1clearhead has the E1008, I dont have it.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> Thanks, saw the price and all my interest vanished again lol.


Again, Serbians are rather tough... highly unlikely that @furyossa will need both of his kidneys! Plus, he is getting the best part of the deal: a pair of PXVV's for little effort on his part while we toil sourcing and ordering them in 中国人! Food for thought


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Again, Serbians are rather tough... highly unlikely that @furyossa will need both of his kidneys! Plus, he is getting the best part of the deal: a pair of PXVV's for little effort on his part while we toil sourcing and ordering them in 中国人! Food for thought


I would probably have to pay 1k euros to get PISLO is my country. So no thanks


----------



## RuFrost

RikudouGoku said:


> The only difference core count has with buds is how it looks and how heavy they are. Thats up to personal preference. I prefer less cores since heavier cable will bottleneck the fit.


Well...not really. Quantity or cores influence sound quite a lot! Scene is changing, its image and, at least, horizontal layering. Dynamics, thickness of sound and ends of the spectrum (sub-bass, top-highs) are effected as well. 

In each case, certain consideration is needed: what earbuds, what cable and what the listener want to achieve. In majority cases with sort of thick cables, I agree - 4 cores are enough. But in other cases, i.e.with smabat st10s 8 cores (Penon Leo pure silver) worked much better, then any 4 cores I have tried.

It would be interesting to hear whether other people have been experimenting with cores and if yes, what results they got.


----------



## vygas (May 26, 2021)

RuFrost said:


> Well...not really. Quantity or cores influence sound quite a lot! Scene is changing, its image and, at least, horizontal layering. Dynamics, thickness of sound and ends of the spectrum (sub-bass, top-highs) are effected as well.
> 
> In each case, certain consideration is needed: what earbuds, what cable and what the listener want to achieve. In majority cases with sort of thick cables, I agree - 4 cores are enough. But in other cases, i.e.with smabat st10s 8 cores (Penon Leo pure silver) worked much better, then any 4 cores I have tried.
> 
> It would be interesting to hear whether other people have been experimenting with cores and if yes, what results they got.


Personally the only time a cable changed the sound signature was when I changed from using the "2-core" cable the PT2021 used to the cable that came with the Tin T3. Those types of cables seem to smooth out the treble whilst any other cable I had on hand, whether it had 4, 6, 8, 16 or even 24 cores, sounded the same and all had more treble than the "2-core".


----------



## WoodyLuvr

I have been experimenting with 14AWG stranded cable and it is glorious! So very musical while still remaining intimate and coherent in presentation. I am eyeing some 12-gauge but my neck is aching something awful. Also wondering if my back issues may also be a result of this heavier cabling I am wearing.


----------



## furyossa

vygas said:


> Personally the only time a cable changed the sound signature was when I changed from using the "2-core" cable the PT2021 used to the cable that came with the Tin T3. Those types of cables seem to smooth out the treble whilst any other cable I had on hand, whether it had 4, 6, 8, 16 or even 24 cores, sounded the same and all had more treble than the "2-core".


They (you know who) always use decent but low quality cables, that's why their buds/IEMs are very affordable. 
IMO this is a big plus as most users like to use their favorite cables


----------



## vygas

WoodyLuvr said:


> I have been experimenting with 14AWG stranded cable and it is glorious! So very musical while still remaining intimate and coherent in presentation. I am eyeing some 12-gauge but my neck is aching something awful. Also wondering if my back issues may also be a result of this heavier cabling I am wearing.


I mean hey, some cables do really deserve to be worn like jewellery


----------



## vygas

furyossa said:


> They (you know who) always use decent but low quality cables, that's why their buds/IEMs are very affordable.
> IMO this is a big plus as most users like to use their favorite cables


Yeah it's a bit of a shame honestly, though it's also a bit of a blessing of have one of those cables if you ever encounter a bud that sparkles as hard as it stabs your ear with treble, it just tones it down a little.


----------



## furyossa (May 26, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> I have been experimenting with 14AWG stranded cable and it is glorious! So very musical while still remaining intimate and coherent in presentation. I am eyeing some 12-gauge but my neck is aching something awful. Also wondering if my back issues may also be a result of this heavier cabling I am wearing.


I hope you don't use those gold chains with big bling-bling while listening to music.





This cable (rope chain) will improve the "sound" of the neck, for sure
BTW... this is the BT version


----------



## Sam L

for the mac os users out there, I just noticed that soundsource will import peq and 10 band files for system-wide eq. Not sure when they worked that in... when I first installed it, I couldn't import my files successfully, but one of the updates must of addressed that issue. 

Now if only we could see system-wide eq for the iPhone.


----------



## 1clearhead

sfrsfr said:


> Hi everyone!
> I was listening for about two weeks now to the SFR PT2021 365 ohm version, powered by E1DA PowerDac v2. I think the buds are excellent.
> To my ears the sound is balanced, airy and well extended on both ends. The bass is there and quite well-controlled. For the first about 100 hours, there were some harsh peaks, but after burn in, they seem to be mostly gone.
> Also I tried to use the PEQ on PDv2 to make the sound more V-shaped and fun. The buds responded fairly well and the result is really pleasant to my ears.
> ...


Thanks for the offer, but unfortunately I will probably pass. I am not looking for an earbud at 365 ohms, since I am totally happy hovering around 16 to 45 ohms with all my players. Though, I do own the PT15, which is quite satisfying to me at its much lower price point. But, knowing that my competition at a higher price lies against my trusty 1MORE E1008 hybrid, which I purchased at a fraction of the price, I honestly think they're going to be hard to beat, IMHO.

-Clear


----------



## 1clearhead (May 27, 2021)

MelodyMood said:


> Ok. So 4 or  6 or max 8 cores are ok in my case. How is 1More E1008. Is it really good?


Yes, the 1MORE E1008 are excellent! At first, I thought it was just okay competing against my trusty JCALLY EP09, but after 20 hours or so burning them in, they just left me dumbfounded, to say the least! They have a monster soundstage and the sub-bass is irresistible, while the fine-tuned midrange and treble are off the charts due to the hybrid combo. Every time I listen to them is like I'm listening to my LZ A7 IEM's, but with actually a slightly better timbre. It just can't get any better than this in my book!

-Clear


----------



## golov17

MelodyMood said:


> Also, Is there any link to Philip SHE3800 with Mic?


US $4.17  11%OFF | Philips Original SHE3800 In-ear earphone Wired 3.5mm Computer notebook headset for huawei xiaomi samsung smart phone
https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0yuhOl


----------



## golov17

And btw, yes, if someone is looking for Yuin pk series home sounds, the only option is to look for them in the second hands with white logos, because what is currently being sold with pale blue logos has nothing to do with sounds,   which we have known for a long time.


----------



## iemhater

furyossa said:


> Yup if you have good soldering skills. It's a bit tricky because you break voice coil thin wire. This is the same process, but for a bigger driver



Would it be possible to solder or apply a bonding agent to the outside so I don't have to disassemble it?


----------



## furyossa

iemhater said:


> Would it be possible to solder or apply a bonding agent to the outside so I don't have to disassemble it?


If that is possible then I will open the shop for fixing the buds 
I find the perfect example for your case. For this process you need to have skills and strong nerves.


----------



## iemhater (May 26, 2021)

furyossa said:


> If that is possible then I will open the shop for fixing the buds
> I find the perfect example for your case. For this process you need to have skills and strong nerves.




I'm not interested in repairing my broken one right now. I don't think I can repair something with such a tiny coil.

All I want to do is make sure it doesn't happen to other buds I buy in the future.

But thank you for that video, it seems like a very simple concept, its just that I don't have the tools to pull out such thin strands of copper.


----------



## WydO

Anyone tried the Sony Ericsson HPM-62? Do you know/recall its sound signature? I bought a new one. It's slightly midcentric  without foams and warm sounding with donut foams. Setup: E6420>foobar2000>ASIO>Tempotec Sonata HD Pro (BHD firmware)>HPM-62. I recall it being aggressive and grainy sounding if it's played through my SE K810i. Kinda U-shaped or V-shaped with the SE as DAP. I might have activated some EQ or effects so it sounds different but the  last time I heard of this setup was more than a decade ago.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

golov17 said:


> US $4.17  11%OFF | Philips Original SHE3800 In-ear earphone Wired 3.5mm Computer notebook headset for huawei xiaomi samsung smart phone
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0yuhOl


Another blast from the past.. the c2014 Philips SHE3800! Good find there.

@golov17 what has been your go-to earbud as of late?


----------



## golov17

WoodyLuvr said:


> Another blast from the past.. the c2014 Philips SHE3800! Good find there.
> 
> @golov17 what has been your go-to earbud as of late?


pk3 white logo, mdr-e837,484, Sharp MD, Blox Yin, ath cm700ti & some other..


----------



## sfrsfr (May 27, 2021)

If anyone is looking for a cheap upgrade earbud cable, I can highly recommend the 8-core cables from RY Earphone Store on AE. From RY-C1 to RY-C9 the cables are the same, only their colors are different. I already have three of them.
They look great, feel soft, are light-weight, have working chin slider and transmit electrical signals perfectly fine.
I think they are an amazing value for the low price!
A link for one of them: www.aliexpress.com/item/4000789472494.html


----------



## RikudouGoku

K´s Samsara K300. First of all, what is with that "packaging" that not even sub 10 usd bud arrive in.....Very crappy presentation and no accessories either and only a package of foam (full and donut).  Cable looks durable though...



























K´s Bell-WE (Bass version), now this is a lot better presentation than the Samsara K300 but still no accessories other than double the amount of foam. The cable though....is very thin which is kinda worrying...


----------



## furyossa (May 27, 2021)

golov17 said:


> pk3 white logo, mdr-e837,484, Sharp MD, Blox Yin, ath cm700ti & some other..


Nice collection you have there.  
I talk about stem position the other day and how can influence comfort and fit/
Sony-E837 is great example which shows non-symmetrical position of the stem.



Sony MDR-E484 is really a thing of beauty. Damn! How good this vintage buds looks
That cut at the top of the stem, is that some part of the vent system or..?



And ATH-CM700ti has not so comfy look. Which version you have from these two?


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> K´s Samsara K300. First of all, what is with that "packaging" that not even sub 10 usd bud arrive in.....Very crappy presentation and no accessories either and only a package of foam (full and donut).  Cable looks durable though...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Congrats! Hope everything works fine regardless of the poor packaging. BTW... They are beautiful. I expect soon first impression 
You mentioned that you also expect Smabat M2Pro?


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Congrats! Hope everything works fine regardless of the poor packaging. BTW... They are beautiful. I expect soon first impression
> You mentioned that you also expect Smabat M2Pro?


The Bell-WE is functional at least (havent tried the Samsara yet) but I am busy with a group assignement so unfortunately I dont have much time to listen right now (although in like 1-2 weeks I have summer break, oh boy I got a ton of stuff I wanna review (mainly reviewing my sources)). 

Smabat havent shipped my order yet, which is the super one (review discount) and the M2S Pro (review unit).


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> The Bell-WE is functional at least (havent tried the Samsara yet) but I am busy with a group assignement so unfortunately I dont have much time to listen right now (although in like 1-2 weeks I have summer break, oh boy I got a ton of stuff I wanna review (mainly reviewing my sources)).
> 
> Smabat havent shipped my order yet, which is the super one (review discount) and the M2S Pro (review unit).


Let the music pass through their "veins" for a while. They will be ready for the summer break


----------



## furyossa (May 27, 2021)

sfrsfr said:


> If anyone is looking for a cheap upgrade earbud cable, I can highly recommend the 8-core cables from RY Earphone Store on AE. From RY-C1 to RY-C9 the cables are the same, only their colors are different. I already have three of them.
> They look great, feel soft, are light-weight, have working chin slider and transmit electrical signals perfectly fine.
> I think they are an amazing value for the low price!
> A link for one of them: www.aliexpress.com/item/4000789472494.html


I bought all RY 4-core cables, and they are great for DIY buds (non-MMCX). I like particularly gold (RY C15) cable. I use it as replacement cable for ShoonTH ESEP-01BL


----------



## 40760

RikudouGoku said:


> K´s Samsara K300. First of all, what is with that "packaging" that not even sub 10 usd bud arrive in.....Very crappy presentation and no accessories either and only a package of foam (full and donut).  Cable looks durable though...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



May I know which shop you ordered them from?


----------



## RikudouGoku

palestofwhite said:


> May I know which shop you ordered them from?


Here: 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002512975421.html (version F)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002513078055.html (version D)


----------



## sfrsfr

1clearhead said:


> Thanks for the offer, but unfortunately I will probably pass. I am not looking for an earbud at 365 ohms, since I am totally happy hovering around 16 to 45 ohms with all my players. Though, I do own the PT15, which is quite satisfying to me at its much lower price point. But, knowing that my competition at a higher price lies against my trusty 1MORE E1008 hybrid, which I purchased at a fraction of the price, I honestly think they're going to be hard to beat, IMHO.
> 
> -Clear


Then maybe the PT2021 32ohm version is for you? 
I would be interested to compare all the different impedance versions...but not going to buy them all.

Anyway, again you got my attention and I put the 1MORE E1008 on my shopping list. Though I prefer to run everything balanced, so the non-removable cable is a minus.
Unfortunately I can't order directly from Taobao, so I have to look elsewhere (also not in Europe for Miberia).


----------



## golov17

furyossa said:


> Nice collection you have there.
> I talk about stem position the other day and how can influence comfort and fit/
> Sony-E837 is great example which shows non-symmetrical position of the stem.
> 
> ...


these


----------



## furyossa

golov17 said:


> these


Yup.Yup. The gems  
BTW ... actually you have MDR-837LP version.
Which one of these buds holds 1st place?


----------



## golov17

furyossa said:


> Yup.Yup. The gems
> BTW ... actually you have MDR-837LP version.
> Which one of these buds holds 1st place?


how to choose favorite children?  everyone has their time..


----------



## golov17

vintage is a lottery after all .. for example, out of four pairs 848, one pair sounds extremely wonderful .. etc.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 27, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Sony MDR-E484 is really a thing of beauty. Damn! How good this vintage buds looks
> That cut at the top of the stem, is that some part of the vent system or..?


Indeed, that is a functioning vent that you see, directly behind the driver. The MDR-E484 is considered to be the pinnacle of Makoto Yamagishi's _acoustic turbo system _design which was first seen and introduced in the Sony MDR-E262 in 1984 where the vent was only at the end of the stem.

*1984 - Sony MDR-E262* (18Ω @ 108 dB/mW; Nude Turbo)
*1988 - Sony MDR-E484* (18Ω @ 108 dB/mW; Nude "Cela")




Makoto Yamagishi (above) retired from Sony in 2009 and went on to create the IEM company Ocharaku Corporation.


----------



## baskingshark

WoodyLuvr said:


> Indeed, that is a functioning vent that you see, directly behind the driver. The MDR-E484 is considered to be the pinnacle of Makoto Yamagishi's _acoustic turbo design_ which was first seen and introduced in the Sony MDR-E262 in 1984 where the vent was only at the end of the stem.
> 
> *1984 - Sony MDR-E262* (18Ω @ 108 dB/mW; Nude Turbo)
> *1988 - Sony MDR-E484* (18Ω @ 108 dB/mW; Nude "Cela")
> ...



Wow didn't know Ocharaku is an offshoot of sorts from Sony


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 27, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> K´s Bell-WE (Bass version), now this is a lot better presentation than the Samsara K300 but still no accessories other than double the amount of foam. *The cable though....is very thin which is kinda worrying...*


That was one of my immediate observations when I received and unpacked my Bell-Ti 120Ω earbuds... I too was shocked by the thinness of the cable but once I studied the tiny bell shell with its narrow cable stem I realized that a larger gauge cable would be near impossible to affix. I am awaiting to hear, any day now, exactly what is up with the right driver that went out on me on my pair after only three (3) months of kids glove use. I strongly suspect it is due to either a bad soldering job and/or simply a weakness of design using thin cables like this.


----------



## jogawag

golov17 said:


> vintage is a lottery after all .. for example, out of four pairs 848, one pair sounds extremely wonderful .. etc.


Sadly, my mdr-e848 sounds a little blurry...


----------



## 40760

WoodyLuvr said:


> That was one of my immediate observations when I received and unpacked my Bell-Ti 120Ω earbuds... I too was shocked by the thinness of the cable but once I studied the tiny bell shell with its narrow cable stem I realized that a larger gauge cable would be near impossible to affix.



I was surprised the cable of the Bell-WE @RikudouGoku received was actually different from the images provided by the shops. I was quite hesitant to get them mainly because I did not like the regular rubber cables depicted by the stores. Also I could not find the 4.4mm option from his link, so maybe they can be arranged privately by the seller to have in any termination possible.


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> That was one of my immediate observations when I received and unpacked my Bell-Ti 120Ω earbuds... I too was shocked by the thinness of the cable but once I studied the tiny bell shell with its narrow cable stem I realized that a larger gauge cable would be near impossible to affix.


I mean...could they use something like this?





Thinner wires from the divider to the transducer body and thicker from the divider to the 3,5/4,4/2,5mm connector?




palestofwhite said:


> I was surprised the cable of the Bell-WE @RikudouGoku received was actually different from the images provided by the shops. I was quite hesitant to get them mainly because I did not like the regular rubber cables depicted by the stores. Also I could not find the 4.4mm option from his link, so maybe they can be arranged privately by the seller to have in any termination possible.


Yes, the cable I got looks different from the ones in the picture, at least for the Bell-WE. My samsara looks similar to this picture:




I did ask for 4.4mm on both and they did it.


----------



## furyossa

golov17 said:


> how to choose favorite children?  everyone has their time..


I don't like to compare old and new buds in a way which one is better, SQ wise.
Although old drivers have a good specification on paper, except low impedance, many of today's drivers used in budget models can match them or even sounds much better.
I have few pairs of AIWA's and I like their design (comfort and fit wise), build quality, and as for the sound, I can’t say they’re better than the new models
in the price range of $20-50. But on the other hand I like to hear a little different “old-school” tuning from time to time
When I asked you who takes the 1st place, I thought more about which pair you use most often.


golov17 said:


> vintage is a lottery after all .. for example, out of four pairs 848, one pair sounds extremely wonderful .. etc.


Many of these old models have lasted for almost 40 years and even today many of us have the opportunity to hear the sound from that time.
Today, much higher quality materials and modern technology are used for buds, but more and more often we see user criticism related to quality control.


jogawag said:


> Sadly, my mdr-e848 sounds a little blurry...


I currently own an mdr-e804 and mdr-e808 and I'm not very happy with either the workmanship or the sound


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> I mean...could they use something like this?
> 
> 
> Thinner wires from the divider to the transducer body and thicker from the divider to the 3,5/4,4/2,5mm connector?



No point reinforcing the thicker part, when the thinner area or areas of repeated bending/areas without strain relief are gonna be the first points of failure. The entire chain is only as strong as the weakest link, ain't it?

So far I've had 3 non detachable IEMs die on me, and they all died at the area where the cable inserts into the IEM shell housing. I suspect that's the area of repeated bending when it is worn. Perhaps heat shrinking stuff may help, I dunno.


----------



## jogawag (May 28, 2021)

furyossa said:


> I currently own an mdr-e804 and mdr-e808 and I'm not very happy with either the workmanship or the sound


As I recall, mdr-e804 and mdr-e808 are not genuine Sony products, but fake products...

Edit: I have mistaken. Not mdr-e808 but mdr-e808+ is fake products.


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> No point reinforcing the thicker part, when the thinner area or areas of repeated bending/areas without strain relief are gonna be the first points of failure. The entire chain is only as strong as the weakest link, ain't it?
> 
> So far I've had 3 non detachable IEMs die on me, and they all died at the area where the cable inserts into the IEM shell housing. I suspect that's the area of repeated bending when it is worn. Perhaps heat shrinking stuff may help, I dunno.




oh yeah. Forgot about that very basic aspect....


----------



## 40760

RikudouGoku said:


> oh yeah. Forgot about that very basic aspect....



K's K300 Samsara is very well built and should last a really long time. Only that yours is 4.4mm and mine was default 3.5mm.


----------



## furyossa

furyossa said:


> I don't like to compare old and new buds in a way which one is better, SQ wise.
> Although old drivers have a good specification on paper, except low impedance, many of today's drivers used in budget models can match them or even sounds much better.
> I have few pairs of AIWA's and I like their design (comfort and fit wise), build quality, and as for the sound, I can’t say they’re better than the new models
> in the price range of $20-50. But on the other hand I like to hear a little different “old-school” tuning from time to time
> ...


Speaking of these vintage models, I would like to thank the Mr. @WoodyLuvr, who helped me find the version labels of these old models and gave 
additional "Top Secret" information that cannot be found even from the manufacturer. 
The pair that surprised me quite a bit is Phillips SHE7750. 




It's not that comfortable, plastic shell, but as for the sound, I don't have any bad comments.
Cheap workmanship is not an indication that the model itself has bad sound i.e. tuning, on the contrary, in addition to this model,
Superlux HD381 lineup it always stands on my desk unlike other models that ended up in a box.


----------



## furyossa (May 27, 2021)

jogawag said:


> As I recall, mdr-e804 and mdr-e808 are not genuine Sony products, but fake products...


Yeah, I know. The very feeling when held in the hand, the quality of the plastic, visible seams and sharp "rough" edges indicate that.
One thing is when cheap material is used and another thing is when the processing itself is poor, and it looks like an unfinished model


----------



## RikudouGoku

Well, about that Samsara K300. I bought it because I had some hope that it was going to be the true X6 upgrade that I (and probably many other) wanted. But well, its actually still different from it.   

I am giving up on finding a true upgrade to the X6....

But, that aside. The Samsara K300 has a VERY impressive sub-bass, heck it might be the best sub-bass I have heard in a bud, extends very low and the rumble is very similar to iems (closer to iem bass than the X6 does).Overall tonality is kinda similar to the X6, what makes it different however is that the Samsara has more recesssed vocals and is warmer, so its more of a V-shaped bud.  Although, it might be closer to the RW-9 (havent compared them though) than the X6. 


The Bell-WE (bass version), has less bass and more mids/treble than the Samsara so it is brighter. 


At the moment, I prefer the Samsara K300 over the Bell-WE (bass). 

Using full foams on both and using the Schiit Asgard 3.


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Indeed, that is a functioning vent that you see, directly behind the driver. The MDR-E484 is considered to be the pinnacle of Makoto Yamagishi's _acoustic turbo system _design which was first seen and introduced in the Sony MDR-E262 in 1984 where the vent was only at the end of the stem.
> 
> *1984 - Sony MDR-E262* (18Ω @ 108 dB/mW; Nude Turbo)
> *1988 - Sony MDR-E484* (18Ω @ 108 dB/mW; Nude "Cela")
> ...


Hmmm...interesting. It has two bass vents at the end of the stem, and small white piece inside.
It seems to have a small opening but this cut on the outside is a little unclear to me


----------



## jogawag (May 27, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> That was one of my immediate observations when I received and unpacked my Bell-Ti 120Ω earbuds... I too was shocked by the thinness of the cable but once I studied the tiny bell shell with its narrow cable stem I realized that a larger gauge cable would be near impossible to affix. I am awaiting to hear, any day now, exactly what is up with the right driver that went out on me on my pair after only three (3) months of kids glove use. I strongly suspect it is due to either a bad soldering job and/or simply a weakness of design using thin cables like this.


When your Bell-Ti 120 ohm earbuds come back repaired, are you planning to protect the stems and the base of the cables with heat shrinkable tubes etc this time?
I'm actually worried about that too, since my onmyoji earbuds should be arriving any day now.


----------



## furyossa (May 27, 2021)

jogawag said:


> When your Bell-Ti 120 ohm earbuds come back repaired, are you planning to protect the stems and the base of the cables with heat shrinkable tubes etc this time?
> I'm actually worried about that too, since my onmyoji earbuds should be arriving any day now.


Bell-Ti use stem as the bass vent, that's why they use a bit thinner cable. Adding shrink tube will close this vent completely


----------



## jogawag (May 27, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Bell-Ti use stem as the bass vent, that's why they use a bit thinner cable. Adding shrink tube will close this vent completely


Thanks.
In that case, should I wrap cellophane tape around the stem of the shell and the base of the cable in a tubular fashion, leaving a gap from the cable?


----------



## golov17 (May 27, 2021)

Del


----------



## WoodyLuvr

furyossa said:


> Hmmm...interesting. It has two bass vents at the end of the stem, and small white piece inside.
> It seems to have a small opening but this cut on the outside is a little unclear to me


If I recall correctly, Makoto called this particular vent not a "port" but rather a "baffle" (as in an open baffle as seen on speakers) to tame the bass vibration and reactive mids and treble frequencies resulting from the long bass tubes in the stem.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

jogawag said:


> When your Bell-Ti 120 ohm earbuds come back repaired, are you planning to protect the stems and the base of the cables with heat shrinkable tubes etc this time?
> I'm actually worried about that too, since my onmyoji earbuds should be arriving any day now.


I donated/gifted them to Wong @ Blur so they will not be returning. Though I am anxiously awaiting Wong's earbuds-autopsy report and to hear what the culprit is regarding the right driver issue. I will surely report his findings here shortly.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Nov 5, 2021)

jogawag said:


> As I recall, mdr-e804 and mdr-e808 are not genuine Sony products, but fake products...





furyossa said:


> Yeah, I know. The very feeling when held in the hand, the quality of the plastic, visible seams and sharp "rough" edges indicate that.
> One thing is when cheap material is used and another thing is when the processing itself is poor, and it looks like an unfinished model


Partially correct. The MDR-E808 was in fact a real model manufactured by Sony as well as the MDR-E804 which was made in China for Sony.





*Sony MDR-E808 in Nuevo Tube Packaging*


The following is the complete Sony MDR-E 8 Series:

*Series 8XX*; 1995-2001/2; 2012/14​_E801/802/803/805/806/807/808/809/811/817/818/819/821/823/827/828/829/832/837/838/847/848/868/888; E804YLA_​​​With that said, the MDR-808 Twin Turbo was heavily copied and faked and soon took on the moniker "MDR-E808*+*". There are probably just as many MDR-E808 fakes than there are originals! And the vast majority of these copies/fakes are horribly constructed with horrendous finishing however, some of the drivers used are quite good and actually sound better than the original!


----------



## RikudouGoku

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33007772016.html

Looks like its only a piezo driver. Guess you cant combine that with another dd and make a bud out of it? (does that store assemble stuff for you or is it also another DIY store only?)


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> Thanks.
> In that case, should I wrap cellophane tape around the stem of the shell and the base of the cable in a tubular fashion, leaving a gap from the cable?





Something about K's buds
*#1 #2.* Ksearphone Bell-LB look similar as Bell-Ti, but there is a difference.
If we look closely at the shell, we can see that the driver, i.e. the cover, is slightly wider so that it does not merge in line with the shell, which is the case with the Bell-Ti model. The diameter is slightly increased, but this stepped transition prevents fall of the foam. As for the stem, usually when we have the same shell, if we have a longer stem length, then more pressure is created and therefore the low frequencies are more pronounced. But here is a slightly specific case, the driver is different and is probably tuned differently. Now there is one small detail that is also important and that is the cables. On Bell-LB  one strand passes through the stem. The opening on the stem is a bit narrower so that the space where the air passes is much smaller compared to the Bel-Ti where the two thinner strand passing through a wider stem.
This way both shells can have the same pressure inside. 




*#3.* Bending the cable more than 75 degrees can damage the cable. Unlike the Bell-LB model, the Bell-Ti has a sharp edge on the stem that can cut the wire.
Another case is pulling which can unsolder the cables or damage the driver inside. To avoid this, a knot is made at the end of the cable that blocks the pull-out, but this knot also takes up a lot of internal space, so it is often avoided. Another way is to use metal "U" Clips




*#4. *Since the Bell-Ti stem is used as a bass vent, we must take care not to close it. It can be cut small piece of Pvc Electrical Insulation Tape, and wrap it around the edge of the stem. Leave a small overhang so that it can be twisted inwards. U can use "Red" and "Blue" as markers for the left and right sides


----------



## WoodyLuvr

furyossa said:


> Bell-Ti use stem as the bass vent, that's why they use a bit thinner cable. Adding shrink tube will close this vent completely


Very true! There is no way to recable to a thicker cable without effecting the sound.


jogawag said:


> Thanks.
> In that case, should I wrap cellophane tape around the stem of the shell and the base of the cable in a tubular fashion, leaving a gap from the cable?


Doubt it as it could create a disturbing minor echo and would probably also increase the risk of cable hangups due to catching on the tape.


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> If I recall correctly, Makoto called this particular vent not a "port" but rather a "baffle" (as in an open baffle as seen on speakers) to tame the bass vibration and reactive mids and treble frequencies resulting from the long bass tubes in the stem.


That's it! How do you know that?


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Very true! There is no way to recable to a thicker cable without effecting the sound.
> 
> Doubt it as it could create a disturbing minor echo and would probably also increase the risk of cable hangups due to catching on the tape.


I hope I managed to explain well in the previous post


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Something about K's buds
> *#1 #2.* Ksearphone Bell-LB look similar as Bell-Ti, but there is a difference.
> If we look closely at the shell, we can see that the driver, i.e. the cover, is slightly wider so that it does not merge in line with the shell, which is the case with the Bell-Ti model. The diameter is slightly increased, but this stepped transition prevents fall of the foam. As for the stem, usually when we have the same shell, if we have a longer stem length, then more pressure is created and therefore the low frequencies are more pronounced. But here is a slightly specific case, the driver is different and is probably tuned differently. Now there is one small detail that is also important and that is the cables. On Bell-LB  one strand passes through the stem. The opening on the stem is a bit narrower so that the space where the air passes is much smaller compared to the Bel-Ti where the two thinner strand passing through a wider stem.
> This way both shells can have the same pressure inside.
> ...


Sounds like the bell design might just be badly designed if they don't allow for thicker or replaceable cables...

Do mx500 shell have that kind of limitation as well? Or are they fine and that's why there are some models with mmcx with mx500 shells?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

furyossa said:


> I hope I managed to explain well in the previous post


Yes, an excellent and thoughtfully detailed breakdown... *#3* in some manner or form is what I suspect happened to my pair of Bell-Ti 120Ω earbuds.


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, an excellent and thoughtfully detailed breakdown... *#3* in some manner or form is what I suspect happened to my pair of Bell-Ti 120Ω earbuds.


Probably, although I think it's bad soldering


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Sounds like the bell design might just be badly designed if they don't allow for thicker or replaceable cables...
> 
> Do mx500 shell have that kind of limitation as well? Or are they fine and that's why there are some models with mmcx with mx500 shells?


This is the cure ... the Holy Drill   




Great example of MMCX mod for MX500 and Bell-LB


----------



## jogawag (May 27, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Something about K's buds
> *#1 #2.* Ksearphone Bell-LB look similar as Bell-Ti, but there is a difference.
> If we look closely at the shell, we can see that the driver, i.e. the cover, is slightly wider so that it does not merge in line with the shell, which is the case with the Bell-Ti model. The diameter is slightly increased, but this stepped transition prevents fall of the foam. As for the stem, usually when we have the same shell, if we have a longer stem length, then more pressure is created and therefore the low frequencies are more pronounced. But here is a slightly specific case, the driver is different and is probably tuned differently. Now there is one small detail that is also important and that is the cables. On Bell-LB  one strand passes through the stem. The opening on the stem is a bit narrower so that the space where the air passes is much smaller compared to the Bel-Ti where the two thinner strand passing through a wider stem.
> This way both shells can have the same pressure inside.
> ...


Thanks for the detailed explanation.
My concern will be solved if I apply #4.
(But my Bell earbuds are black/white onmyoji so I will only need one color of transparent tape.  )


----------



## jogawag (May 27, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Partially correct. The MDR-E808 was in fact a real model manufactured by Sony where as the MDR-E804 was not and therefore ALL are fakes.
> 
> 
> *Sony MDR-E808 in Nuevo Tube Packaging*
> ...


Sorry, I mistook the MDR-E808 for the MDR-E808 + in @furyossa's post.


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> Thanks for the detailed explanation.
> My concern will be solved if I apply #4.
> (But my Bell earbuds are black/white onmyoji so I will only need one color of transparent tape.  )


Electrical tape is softer than classic adhesive transparent tape


----------



## assassin10000

RikudouGoku said:


> Sounds like the bell design might just be badly designed if they don't allow for thicker or replaceable cables...
> 
> Do mx500 shell have that kind of limitation as well? Or are they fine and that's why there are some models with mmcx with mx500 shells?


Extra small drill bits. See below.


furyossa said:


>


That looks familiar.


----------



## jogawag

furyossa said:


> Electrical tape is softer than classic adhesive transparent tape


Thank you, I found some transparent Pvc Electrical Insulation Tape and ordered it.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Extra small drill bits. See below.
> 
> That looks familiar.


Yeah   It's looks like your blue grid board  BTW ... I didn't see a better example for Bell shells.
Of course I don’t encourage anyone to try this on a Bell-Ti model


----------



## furyossa (May 27, 2021)

jogawag said:


> Thank you, I found some transparent Pvc Electrical Insulation Tape and ordered it.


Ok, that's fine. I gave you a suggestion to wrap the stem, or you can wrap the cables only in the part where it touches the sharp edge of the stem


----------



## Ronion

The first earbuds I ever heard were the first Generation of Apple earbuds.  I threw them away within 2 days and didn’t hear another earbud until about a month ago.  I thought the typology was just a disaster.  Now seeing how many earbuds there actually were and are, I am just in awe.   I wish I had tried some of those vintage models.  Oh, I take it back, I heard some Beyerdynamics a few years back, and though they had better bass than the Apple I heard before, they were very muffled and dull and made their way to the trash in less than a week.  My portable headphones for the last decade have been a set of Sennheiser px100-I I.  They still live, but hearing earbuds now, I’m officially hooked.  I’m still waiting on some sets coming in from various sellers on Ali.  Maybe after I give them a listen, I can ship them to some others who would/could write reviews?  If anyone is up to it, just let me know.  We can get a mailing list together or something.  Anyway, just thought I’d throw that out there.  I’ll make a list of what’s coming when I have some time.


----------



## furyossa (May 28, 2021)

Ronion said:


> The first earbuds I ever heard were the first Generation of Apple earbuds.  I threw them away within 2 days and didn’t hear another earbud until about a month ago.  I thought the typology was just a disaster.  Now seeing how many earbuds there actually were and are, I am just in awe.   I wish I had tried some of those vintage models.  Oh, I take it back, I heard some Beyerdynamics a few years back, and though they had better bass than the Apple I heard before, they were very muffled and dull and made their way to the trash in less than a week.  My portable headphones for the last decade have been a set of Sennheiser px100-I I.  They still live, but hearing earbuds now, I’m officially hooked.  I’m still waiting on some sets coming in from various sellers on Ali.  Maybe after I give them a listen, I can ship them to some others who would/could write reviews?  If anyone is up to it, just let me know.  We can get a mailing list together or something.  Anyway, just thought I’d throw that out there.  I’ll make a list of what’s coming when I have some time.


It is your fault that you first tried the consumer products of big brands that are sold because of their "colorful" advertising and not because of SQ.  
I’m not saying they all have bad products, but most of what is supposedly good costs more than it’s really worth.
Also, I'm really sorry I didn't find out about this forum before, before my first purchase. So much good information can be found here and so many good people who can honestly help you in your choice.


----------



## 40760

With all my might, I tried ripping the cable off my LBBS. It wouldn’t rip. Impressive.


----------



## furyossa

palestofwhite said:


> With all my might, I tried ripping the cable off my LBBS. It wouldn’t rip. Impressive.


I'm curious, please tell me why you do that  Or Is it a test unit intended for quality control check?


----------



## 40760

furyossa said:


> I'm curious, please tell me why you do that  Or Is it a test unit intended for quality control check?



Old pair had a failed driver, and reading what you guys discussed about the stems and stuff, I decided to put its durability to test.

The cables themselves did not detach from the shells not matter how hard I tried with my bare hands, but only deformed. Very impressive if you ask me.

Not saying you guys should go ahead and abuse them, but they are incredibly durable. LBBS only and I can't say the same for the Bell-Ti.


----------



## furyossa (May 28, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> Old pair had a failed driver, and reading what you guys discussed about the stems and stuff, I decided to put its durability to test.
> 
> The cables themselves did not detach from the shells not matter how hard I tried with my bare hands, but only deformed. Very impressive if you ask me.
> 
> Not saying you guys should go ahead and abuse them, but they are incredibly durable. LBBS only and I can't say the same for the Bell-Ti.


Yup. Probably they used the knot which is common for single core cables but for braided cable, it's better to use metal "U" chips


----------



## jogawag

palestofwhite said:


> Old pair had a failed driver, and reading what you guys discussed about the stems and stuff, I decided to put its durability to test.
> 
> The cables themselves did not detach from the shells not matter how hard I tried with my bare hands, but only deformed. Very impressive if you ask me.
> 
> Not saying you guys should go ahead and abuse them, but they are incredibly durable. LBBS only and I can't say the same for the Bell-Ti.


I have LBBS as well, how did your LBBS drivers fail?
I heard that @WoodyLuvr's Bell-Ti 120ohm also failed, so I'm getting worried about the QC of K's earphone.


----------



## 40760 (May 28, 2021)

jogawag said:


> I have LBBS as well, how did your LBBS drivers fail?
> I heard that @WoodyLuvr's Bell-Ti 120ohm also failed, so I'm getting worried about the QC of K's earphone.


I'm not really sure how it failed, but it could be bad solder.

I'm also not that ready to purchase anything else from K's for the time being, after so many reports of driver failure. It just so happens that the overall physical built of their products are actually quite good and did not seem like the cause of those issues. Could be internal work or design that needs brushing up.


----------



## furyossa

U can


palestofwhite said:


> I'm not really sure how it failed, but it could be bad solder.
> 
> I'm also not that ready to purchase anything else from K's for the time being, after so many reports of driver failure. It just so happened that the overall physical built of their products are actually quite good and did not seem like the cause of those issues. Could be internal work or design that needs brushing up.


You can heat up the shell with hair dryer (avoid the side where is driver cover)
This will soften the glue a bit and then try to remove the cover from the shell


----------



## uneri (Jul 17, 2021)

‎


----------



## jogawag

uneri said:


> For what it's worth, both of my 8 months old LBBS and 4 months old Onmyoji 2021 are still working perfectly fine.


I'm a little relieved to hear good reports.
Do you use any protection at the base of the Onmyoji 2021 cable?
Also please let me know how different the LBBS and Onmyoji 2021 sound.


----------



## uneri (Jun 24, 2021)

‎


----------



## WoodyLuvr

*@GREQ *has kindly alerted me that _*Japan Victor Company aka JVC (Victor in Japan/Asia)*_ was completely missing from the *Earbud Timeline* especially many of the key models they made during the Golden and Silver Ages. I had completely forgotten about Victor's HA/HP-F series including their "Spiral Ducts"... the old brain needs a tune-up apparently! The timeline has been duly updated with Victor-JVC!

I also added some entries for a number of Golden Age earbud models from *Denon*, *Piezo*, *Nagaoka*, *Marantz*, and *TEAC* that I had been procrastinating to add as I had to research (hunt around in my notes for) the impedance and/or confirm the debut year.

Remember, I am more than happy to correct and/or add to the timeline just please provide me the following information to help me out:

*Debut Year --- Brand Name --- Model Name & Number --- Impedance Rating*​
Thank you again *@GREQ *it is most appreciated!


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> *@GREQ *has kindly alerted me that _*Japan Victor Company aka JVC (Victor in Japan/Asia)*_ was completely missing from the *Earbud Timeline* especially many of the key models they made during the Golden and Silver Ages. I had completely forgotten about Victor's HA/HP-F series including their "Spiral Ducts"... the old brain needs a tune-up apparently! The timeline has been duly updated with Victor-JVC!
> 
> I also added some entries for a number of Golden Age earbud models from *Denon*, *Piezo*, *Nagaoka*, *Marantz*, and *TEAC* that I had been procrastinating to add as I had to research (hunt around in my notes for) the impedance and/or confirm the debut year.
> 
> ...


I am glad that the list continues to expand. My sources have dried up


----------



## Luis1316

My Onmyoji 2021 is also still going well. I just handle them with extra care compared to my IEMs, and I also only use them at home.
I really like my pair, It feels like a meatier version of my LZ A7, which means that it actually has a bit more mid-bass. I also really like the feeling of the bass resonating with the aluminum body. I talked a bit before how it sounded kinda similar to my moded LZ A7, so It basically comes down to:
Microdetails: LZ A7 > Onmyoji
Soundstage：LZ A7  = Onmyoji
Timbre: LZ A7 < Onmyoji


----------



## n00b

sooo I've been using the NiceHCK EBX21 for a little while, wanting to experience what top of the line might sound like. It sure feels TOTL in terms of build quality and technicalities and all that, but honestly I just find myself turning my brain off and switching on some extremely V-shaped EQ preset (Excited on Sony DAPs) to fill out the rest of the music. Otherwise it feels pretty thin to me, low end has no body or impact, vocals feel distant. I think by comparison I prefer the ME80s a little bit more, it might be a fit issue or something but it does sound a bit more full and musical.

With that said, are there any decidedly 'top of the line' and comfortable V-shaped (or even bass-boosted harman neutral-ish) buds? I was really interested in the K's stuff just because of the form factor, but the high price, limited availability, lack of detachable cables or balanced termination, and now recent driver failures are giving more even moooore pause than before. I am kinda curious but likely won't shop around given how much I enjoy the ME80 and EBX21 for different music, but for the sake of the hobby I would like to do a little more research 👀


----------



## furyossa

n00b said:


> sooo I've been using the NiceHCK EBX21 for a little while, wanting to experience what top of the line might sound like. It sure feels TOTL in terms of build quality and technicalities and all that, but honestly I just find myself turning my brain off and switching on some extremely V-shaped EQ preset (Excited on Sony DAPs) to fill out the rest of the music. Otherwise it feels pretty thin to me, low end has no body or impact, vocals feel distant. I think by comparison I prefer the ME80s a little bit more, it might be a fit issue or something but it does sound a bit more full and musical.
> 
> With that said, are there any decidedly 'top of the line' and comfortable V-shaped (or even bass-boosted harman neutral-ish) buds? I was really interested in the K's stuff just because of the form factor, but the high price, limited availability, lack of detachable cables or balanced termination, and now recent driver failures are giving more even moooore pause than before. I am kinda curious but likely won't shop around given how much I enjoy the ME80 and EBX21 for different music, *but for the sake of the hobby I would like to do a little more research *👀


That is the right answer.   .......................................................................................................
We often talk here about how TOTL buds should have detachable cables, and I also agree with that. But with some models, this option does not bring any advantage. 
For example NiceHCK EBX21 has detachable cables but you have to pay a higher price for the product because it comes with a cable that has a price 50% of the total price. When it comes to buying headphones that you don't have the opportunity to try before buying, this is not convenient at all. 

It should also be taken into account that the MMCX itself or any other connectors often break down, sometimes more often than the cable itself.
Fixing ie. replacing these connectors on the shell is much harder than replacing a cable that is soldered directly to the driver.
We have Moondrop and K's models where the stem is part of the vent system itself, any modification or placement of the connector would have a huge impact on the sound. The connector option requires a complete shell redesign. These are some of the reasons why most TOTL models still don't have an option with connectors


----------



## RikudouGoku (May 28, 2021)

n00b said:


> sooo I've been using the NiceHCK EBX21 for a little while, wanting to experience what top of the line might sound like. It sure feels TOTL in terms of build quality and technicalities and all that, but honestly I just find myself turning my brain off and switching on some extremely V-shaped EQ preset (Excited on Sony DAPs) to fill out the rest of the music. Otherwise it feels pretty thin to me, low end has no body or impact, vocals feel distant. I think by comparison I prefer the ME80s a little bit more, it might be a fit issue or something but it does sound a bit more full and musical.
> 
> With that said, are there any decidedly 'top of the line' and comfortable V-shaped (or even bass-boosted harman neutral-ish) buds? I was really interested in the K's stuff just because of the form factor, but the high price, limited availability, lack of detachable cables or balanced termination, and now recent driver failures are giving more even moooore pause than before. I am kinda curious but likely won't shop around given how much I enjoy the ME80 and EBX21 for different music, but for the sake of the hobby I would like to do a little more research 👀


Yincrow RW-2000
K´s Samsara K300

Those are the sets I would recommend if you want to have a fun bassy bud. Or you can also check out the Yincrow X6 if price is a problem.


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Yincrow RW-2000
> K´s Samsara K300
> 
> Those are some set I would recommend if you want to have a fun bassy bud. Or you can also check out the Yincrow X6 if price is a problem.


ok, I give in.... the constant x6 references. I'm getting some backups before they eventually get discontinued. Note, I'm not saying they are being discontinued but we've seen earbuds disappear after the inventory is cleared.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> ok, I give in.... the constant x6 references. I'm getting some backups before they eventually get discontinued. Note, I'm not saying they are being discontinued but we've seen earbuds disappear after the inventory is cleared.


hahha, yeah. That would probably be smart to do, nothing has surpassed it from my experience.


----------



## n00b

Haha damn, I was looking at the RW-2000 anyway but went with the EBX21s since I already was happy with other NiceHCK buds and thought the EBX21s look way cooler than the RW-2000. I'll keep it on my shortlist and see what the rest of 2021 has to offer 👀 Appreciate y'all and your swift input + expertise


----------



## FranQL (May 28, 2021)

furyossa said:


> We often talk here about how TOTL buds should have detachable cables, and I also agree with that. But with some models, this option does not bring any advantage.



and this is even more noticeable in the buds, where you must also discover what your best fit is. If you do it based on TOLT models, your € can be stored in a drawer ... It will not matter the detachable cable and everything else


----------



## digititus

n00b said:


> sooo I've been using the NiceHCK EBX21 for a little while, wanting to experience what top of the line might sound like. It sure feels TOTL in terms of build quality and technicalities and all that, but honestly I just find myself turning my brain off and switching on some extremely V-shaped EQ preset (Excited on Sony DAPs) to fill out the rest of the music. Otherwise it feels pretty thin to me, low end has no body or impact, vocals feel distant. I think by comparison I prefer the ME80s a little bit more, it might be a fit issue or something but it does sound a bit more full and musical.
> 
> With that said, are there any decidedly 'top of the line' and comfortable V-shaped (or even bass-boosted harman neutral-ish) buds? I was really interested in the K's stuff just because of the form factor, but the high price, limited availability, lack of detachable cables or balanced termination, and now recent driver failures are giving more even moooore pause than before. I am kinda curious but likely won't shop around given how much I enjoy the ME80 and EBX21 for different music, but for the sake of the hobby I would like to do a little more research 👀


Smabat ST10s gold will probably tick all the boxes


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> hahha, yeah. That would probably be smart to do, nothing has surpassed it from my experience.


hmm... let's hope my order gets filled


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> hmm... let's hope my order gets filled


Damn, now you sure got enough backups lol.


Better leave one for @baskingshark to get, he needs to hear it!


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> and this is even more noticeable in the buds, where you must also discover what your best fit is. If you do it based on TOLT models, your € can be stored in a drawer ... It will not matter the detachable cable and everything else


Exactley.


RikudouGoku said:


> Damn, now you sure got enough backups lol.
> 
> 
> Better leave one for @baskingshark to get, he needs to hear it!


After @Sam_L purchase there will be no X6.  Case closed


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> Exactley.
> 
> After @Sam_L purchase there will be no X6.  Case closed


----------



## n00b

one thing I find funny after looking up reviews of these TOTL earbuds recommended to me because I want v-shape is, everyone says "neutral presentation." I guess neutral is highly subjective lol


----------



## furyossa (May 28, 2021)

FranQL said:


>


I knew it, he didn't buy the X6's just from NiceHCK store.


----------



## FranQL (May 28, 2021)

n00b said:


> one thing I find funny after looking up reviews of these TOTL earbuds recommended to me because I want v-shape is, everyone says "neutral presentation." I guess neutral is highly subjective lol




A "pure" V shape in buds I think is impossible to get. of what I have tried, perhaps the 1008 is the closest thing.


----------



## n00b

Yeah, I think at this point I should temper my expectations and be okay with buying an earbud for form factor + openness. My ME80s sound good and are so comfortable, but if the cable dies or I need more clarity, I can go to my EBX21 and EQ a V-shape to get it close. I still appreciate everyone's input, I'm sure y'all are wiser than me and I just had unrealistic expectations going in


----------



## RikudouGoku

FranQL said:


> A "pure" V shape in buds I think is impossible to get. of what I have tried, perhaps the 1008 is the closest thing.


Dont think you can get as much sub-bass nor as recessed mids as on iems with buds. But v-shaped buds do exist, like the Samsara K300.


----------



## n00b

alright so honestly, after looking at your earbud review/comparison spreadsheet, maybe I don’t even want V-shaped. I’m finding the ME80 with double foams right where I want them to be, maybe could have a bit more clarity/detail for female vocals.

You have the EBX21 which I find thin, and the ME80 which I find just right, both labeled as “Neutral.” So if you have RW-2000s as bass-boosted neutral, that just might be what I want. I just wish they weren’t blue LOL. 

I’ll order some different foams and play around with them on the EBX21 before I look to start spending triple digits again. Right now I have to use the silicone wings for EBX21 because of the fitment, but maybe they’ll sound better with foam/add some low end and tame down the highs for me.


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> Damn, now you sure got enough backups lol.
> 
> 
> Better leave one for @baskingshark to get, he needs to hear it!



Haha the way u are putting it, is Yincrow X6 like the BLON BL-03 of the earbud world?




n00b said:


> alright so honestly, after looking at your earbud review/comparison spreadsheet, maybe I don’t even want V-shaped. I’m finding the ME80 with double foams right where I want them to be, maybe could have a bit more clarity/detail for female vocals.
> 
> You have the EBX21 which I find thin, and the ME80 which I find just right, both labeled as “Neutral.” So if you have RW-2000s as bass-boosted neutral, that just might be what I want. I just wish they weren’t blue LOL.
> 
> I’ll order some different foams and play around with them on the EBX21 before I look to start spending triple digits again. Right now I have to use the silicone wings for EBX21 because of the fitment, but maybe they’ll sound better with foam/add some low end and tame down the highs for me.



If u find the NiceHCK EBX21 a bit thin, try using double foams, and perhaps a warmer source.




FranQL said:


> A "pure" V shape in buds I think is impossible to get. of what I have tried, perhaps the 1008 is the closest thing.



I think the HE150 Pro is V shaped to my ears, but unfortunately it ain't sold no more.


----------



## 40760 (May 29, 2021)

Taking a break and changing over from the Sun Copper to Monk Plus and Monk Go was refreshing. Way more comfortable to wear over longer periods.


----------



## Ronion

I think someone needs to start an earbud frequency response graph repository.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

palestofwhite said:


> Taking a break and changing over from the Sun Copper to Monk Plus and Monk Go was refreshing. Way more comfortable to wear over longer periods.


I also found my buddies VE Sun "Dice" (the Aluminum & Steel version) to be rather fatiguing to wear as well. The design and weight of the shell is somewhat unbalanced so it feels rather heavy and achy. Though very nice sounding I must admit.


----------



## 40760

WoodyLuvr said:


> I also found my buddies VE Sun "Dice" (the Aluminum & Steel version) to be rather fatiguing to wear as well. The design and weight of the shell is somewhat unbalanced so it feels rather heavy and achy. Though very nice sounding I must admit.


My exact sentiments. I will always go back to it for the sound but leave it after the discomfort comes back. I felt they should have come with a lighter cable. Hopefully Lee can do something about it in the future revisions.


----------



## chinmie

baskingshark said:


> Haha the way u are putting it, is Yincrow X6 like the BLON BL-03 of the earbud world?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



if I remember correctly, isn't the X6 basically Vido (using the same driver and tuning) with upgraded cable?


----------



## uneri (Jun 24, 2021)

‎


----------



## shenshen

chinmie said:


> if I remember correctly, isn't the X6 basically Vido (using the same driver and tuning) with upgraded cable?


Considering different colored Vidos sound different, it's hard to make this kind of statement. I have the navy blue and they don't sound alike at all.


----------



## jogawag (May 29, 2021)

chinmie said:


> if I remember correctly, isn't the X6 basically Vido (using the same driver and tuning) with upgraded cable?


In this post, @ClieOS confirms that Vido and X6 use the same driver.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15599183


----------



## shenshen

jogawag said:


> In this post, @ClieOS confirms that Vido and X6 use the same driver.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15599183


Right, but tuning differs between Vido colors from what I've seen.


----------



## chinmie

i have only known the old blue Vido, never tried the newer colors


----------



## jogawag (May 29, 2021)

shenshen said:


> Right, but tuning differs between Vido colors from what I've seen.





chinmie said:


> i have only known the old blue Vido, never tried the newer colors


I also have an X6 and a navy blue Vido and I admit that their tuning is different.

The following review by @cenizas has a detailed comparison of the X6 and Traceless and all colors of Vido.
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/yincrow-x6.22393/reviews


----------



## wskl

Regarding the Vido, I think it is related to low QC.  I remember someone had bought a few Vido of the same color, and when he opened up the shell, they all had different thickness of tuning foam.

I have owned the blue Vido and the NiceHCK Traceless (rebranded Vido) and both sound drastically different.  NiceHCK also informed me that there should be no differences in sound whichever color you choose.


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> Haha the way u are putting it, is Yincrow X6 like the BLON BL-03 of the earbud world?


Yes, it is. 100% both similar in sound and what their status is.


----------



## baskingshark

wskl said:


> Regarding the Vido, I think it is related to low QC.  I remember someone had bought a few Vido of the same color, and when he opened up the shell, they all had different thickness of tuning foam.
> 
> I have owned the blue Vido and the NiceHCK Traceless (rebranded Vido) and both sound drastically different.  NiceHCK also informed me that there should be no differences in sound whichever color you choose.



Yes could very well be unit variation among the different colours of Vido. CHIFI is not a paragon for strict QC, but I see quite a lot of forum members here vouching that the different coloured Vidos do sound different.

FWIW, I only own the blue and white Vido and they are really different sounding, but I can't say if it is unit variation or an intended thing.


----------



## FranQL

RikudouGoku said:


> Yes, it is. 100% both similar in sound and what their status is.



I think making such a statement ... will be a disappointment to new users who buy buds that will walk away from this thread forever. pears and apples.

😅


----------



## RikudouGoku

FranQL said:


> I think making such a statement ... will be a disappointment to new users who buy buds that will walk away from this thread forever. pears and apples.
> 
> 😅


I mean, it applies to the X6, I didnt say it was about buds as a whole. If they want something completely different from iems, the majority of buds are like that. But if they wanted iem sound with bud fit, there arent that many...


----------



## n00b

baskingshark said:


> If u find the NiceHCK EBX21 a bit thin, try using double foams, and perhaps a warmer source.


good news! so I knew about using double foams before to improve bass response a bit, but the issue with EBX21 shells is that they would fall out of my ears unless I used silicone hooks. this morning, I realized I could actually wear them over the ear like my IEMs and they actually stay put, AND provide a decent "seal" with the double foams! So my fitment issues are gone, the comfort is there, the rich low end is back, and I can EQ whatever else is missing. I also am using a custom FW ZX300 rather than the ZX507 to get a bit more warmth and it sounds really good. I think I saved myself a couple hundred bucks for now, but I might get a better cable now that I know I'll be wearing these over the ear


----------



## furyossa

n00b said:


> good news! so I knew about using double foams before to improve bass response a bit, but the issue with EBX21 shells is that they would fall out of my ears unless I used silicone hooks. this morning, I realized I could actually wear them over the ear like my IEMs and they actually stay put, AND provide a decent "seal" with the double foams! So my fitment issues are gone, the comfort is there, the rich low end is back, and I can EQ whatever else is missing. I also am using a custom FW ZX300 rather than the ZX507 to get a bit more warmth and it sounds really good. I think I saved myself a couple hundred bucks for now, but I might get a better cable now that I know I'll be wearing these over the ear


If you have the opportunity to do a measurement for them, you can send a @Sam_L file to do some magic.


----------



## n00b

ah i dont have the equipment or know-how to measure these, and i will probably make many of you cringe with the braindead EQ i was using before haha


----------



## astrogoat (May 29, 2021)

First of all...cheers to all and want to say thank you to all the contributors that make this forum a real gold mine! 
After listening to a pair of a friend's tonekings I went ahead and purchased to400 directly from Ali's toneking store (based on curiosity and...I'll admit it..looks!)
What I got was a version of the earbuds that is different from all the pictures I had seen...it came with the same speaker plastic cover as the to600!   I reached out to toneking and they said to400 ship randomly with metal grill cover or plastic speaker cover but are the same configuration. 
Am I wrong in assuming different covers affect the sound of the earbuds (dept to driver, number of holes, material)  Not sure I understand why they would randomly do that if it has an impact on the sound. Any of you know what kind of impact it can have?


----------



## Alteria

Just received the Yincrow X6 earlier today, was surprised by the amount of bass it had.

Still prefer using the NiceHCK MX500 though. Tempted to get the Fengru EMX500 to see if it's actually the same product lol


----------



## baskingshark

n00b said:


> good news! so I knew about using double foams before to improve bass response a bit, but the issue with EBX21 shells is that they would fall out of my ears unless I used silicone hooks. this morning, I realized I could actually wear them over the ear like my IEMs and they actually stay put, AND provide a decent "seal" with the double foams! So my fitment issues are gone, the comfort is there, the rich low end is back, and I can EQ whatever else is missing. I also am using a custom FW ZX300 rather than the ZX507 to get a bit more warmth and it sounds really good. I think I saved myself a couple hundred bucks for now, but I might get a better cable now that I know I'll be wearing these over the ear



Yes good to hear (no pun intended) it works for you. I also use double foams with the EBX21 to get a better fit and to thicken the low end.


----------



## furyossa

astrogoat said:


> First of all...cheers to all and want to say thank you to all the contributors that make this forum a real gold mine!
> After listening to a pair of a friend's tonekings I went ahead and purchased to400 directly from Ali's toneking store (based on curiosity and...I'll admit it..looks!)
> What I got was a version of the earbuds that is different from all the pictures I had seen...it came with the same speaker plastic cover as the to600!   I reached out to toneking and they said to400 ship randomly with metal grill cover or plastic speaker cover but are the same configuration.
> Am I wrong in assuming different covers affect the sound of the earbuds (dept to driver, number of holes, material)  Not sure I understand why they would randomly do that if it has an impact on the sound. Any of you know what kind of impact it can have?


DIY 400ohm graphene driver has version with metal grill cover or plastic cover (which I have) and I don't know if to400 uses this driver. 
Another example: HE 150 (plastic cover) and HE150 PRO (metal grill cover). I assume that this is the same driver and HE 150 sounds better.
This covers change the sound for sure, because they have different opening from inside.
Also I found that there are 4 verions of metal grill covers. I posted links here


----------



## astrogoat

furyossa said:


> DIY 400ohm graphene driver has version with metal grill cover or plastic cover (which I have) and I don't know if to400 uses this driver.
> Another example: HE 150 (plastic cover) and HE150 PRO (metal grill cover). I assume that this is the same driver and HE 150 sounds better.
> This covers change the sound for sure, because they have different opening from inside.
> Also I found that there are 4 verions of metal grill covers. I posted links here


Interesting! Thank you!


----------



## furyossa

astrogoat said:


> Interesting! Thank you!


Don't worry at least you got a better version 
I’ve seen on some old models that the metal mesh happens to corrode. 
I prefere more classic MX500 plastic covers because they are durable and vents pattern is well designed


----------



## Ronion

I ordered a handful of buds from AliExpress and they are saying 70 days to ship to America!  There needs to be a source for buds in the USA.  Any Americans here with Ali-shipping experience?


----------



## n00b

Yea, I would avoid whatever economy shipping option they give you and just pay the extra 3 bucks or so for Aliexpress Standard Shipping. If you're lucky it'll take like 10-14 days. It can be really hit or miss depending on the vendor though. The first thing I ordered in a big batch of stuff back in March still isnt here, but stuff I ordered in May has gotten here, etc.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Here is a track I am enjoying a lot with the Samsara K300: 
So powerful bass and yet so clean with a huge soundstage.   






OST´s work very well, particularly the ones that got bass, like Hiroyuki, Shiro Sagisu and Yasuharu Takanashi stuff. 
Although maybe not so much with the vocal focused OST´s due to the recessed mids.


----------



## furyossa (May 29, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Here is a track I am enjoying a lot with the Samsara K300:
> So powerful bass and yet so clean with a huge soundstage.
> 
> 
> ...



You got my attention when you mentioned huge soundstage Imaging? Is it awesome or what? For test


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> You got my attention when you mentioned huge soundstage Imaging? Is it awesome or what?


(I havent compared it to anything, so just take it as huge soundstage like every other bud got ATM lol.)

It got decent technicalities, but I am pretty sure the RW-2000 is better in that regard. This is a more colored sound, with thicker note-weight and warmer tonality than the RW-2000. But is more fun for me since I do prefer sub-bass over mid-bass focused bass.


----------



## astrogoat

furyossa said:


> Don't worry at least you got a better version
> I’ve seen on some old models that the metal mesh happens to corrode.
> I prefere more classic MX500 plastic covers because they are durable and vents pattern is well designed



I was worried about the impact on sound but the corrosion is a valid point!!  Thank you!


----------



## assassin10000

n00b said:


> ... if you have RW-2000s as bass-boosted neutral, that just might be what I want. I just wish they weren’t blue LOL.


Perhaps the RW-1000 bass would work?


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> But is more fun for me since I do prefer sub-bass over mid-bass focused bass.


Same here. Not fan of mid-bass. 
I like to test soundstage and imaging with Yosi Horikawa work. I think because you said that RW-2K has better technicalities, probably will win in this duel


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Same here. Not fan of mid-bass.
> I like to test soundstage and imaging with Yosi Horikawa work. I think because you said that RW-2K has better technicalities, probably will win in this duel


I will analyze them both (and others) when I have more time. Probably next week when all my exams are over. Then I will go review a lot of stuff I wanna review.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> I will analyze them both (and others) when I have more time. Probably next week when all my exams are over. Then I will go review a lot of stuff I wanna review.


I remember that feeling before every exam I had the inspiration to always do something else


----------



## jogawag (May 29, 2021)

assassin10000 said:


> Perhaps the RW-1000 bass would work?


As this link shows, @ClieOS says the following
"rw-2000 is great. In short, it is the re-evolution of the rw-1000 low-frequency version, which is a popular weapon.
In terms of cost/performance ratio, the rw-1000 is of course much higher. The rw-2000 is more like a combination of the analysis of the original rw-1000 and the low-frequency version of the rw-1000's pop tuning after the comprehensive re-evolution."

Edit: So it seems that rw-1000 bass is not stronger bass than rw-2000.


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> As this link shows, @ClieOS says the following
> "rw-2000 is great. In short, it is the re-evolution of the rw-1000 low-frequency version, which is a popular weapon.
> In terms of cost/performance ratio, the rw-1000 is of course much higher. The rw-2000 is more like a combination of the analysis of the original rw-1000 and the low-frequency version of the rw-1000's pop tuning after the comprehensive re-evolution."


I  will love to see graphs for all 3 RW's. Can you find any info?


----------



## jogawag

furyossa said:


> I  will love to see graphs for all 3 RW's. Can you find any info?


I have not found any graphs for all 3 RW's.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 30, 2021)

Headed my way...


Spoiler: Blur MX300 美魔女 Beautiful Witch aPs Edition (300Ω); 2.5TRRS Balanced


----------



## 40760

WoodyLuvr said:


> Headed my way...
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Blur MX300 美魔女 Beautiful Witch aPs Edition (300Ω); 2.5TRRS Balanced


Can you PM me the price of this config?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

palestofwhite said:


> Can you PM me the price of this config?


Sent!


----------



## Grev

Were thee any of your opinions on the earbud anonymous set?


----------



## mochill

I'll be getting the smabat super one and m2s pro soon , just ordered them 😁


----------



## wskl

Grev said:


> Were thee any of your opinions on the earbud anonymous set?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3399#post-16034206

If you join the Earbuds Anonymous Facebook group, you should also be able to find comments from others.


----------



## NewEve (May 30, 2021)

Hi everyone,

Quick one as I'm "new" to earbuds.

I just ordered the VE Sun Dice (180Ω -- 109dB sensitivity) with a 3.5 SE termination out of habit.

I'll mainly use them with portable devices (A&K SR25, L&P W1 -- both should do 125 mW @ 32Ω -- or Shanling M6 Pro which does 200 mW @ 32Ω on ultra gain).

Knowing that I always prefer single-ended, would you recommend that I change my order to balanced or not at all?

I know I can go from balanced to single-ended with adapters but would like to avoid it if possible.

Thanks in advance,

NewEve


----------



## WoodyLuvr

NewEve said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Quick one as I'm "new" to earbuds.
> 
> ...


Although spec'd @ 180Ω impedance they are rather sensitive @ 109dB/mW... so they are not terribly difficult to drive. For example, ~1.5V @ ~12.5 mW will drive them to ~120 dB SPL. Less than a half a volt at a little over one milliwatt will drive them to 110dB SPL!

That said you may get improved bass response with more power (doubtful though due to their sensitivity). Selecting "balanced" instead of "unbalanced; single-ended" termination may be a wise choice as balanced output usually offers more power. Also, balanced to single-end adapters are easy to come by (for whenever you want/need to go unbalanced)... whereas unbalanced to balanced adaptors are a HUGE "No-No!" as they can severely damage any of your equipment offering balanced outputs.


----------



## NewEve

WoodyLuvr said:


> Although spec'd @ 180Ω impedance they are rather sensitive @ 109dB/mW... so they are not terribly difficult to drive. For example, ~1.5V @ ~12.5 mW will drive them to ~120 dB SPL. Less than a half a volt at a little over one milliwatt will drive them to 110dB SPL!
> 
> That said you may get improved bass response with more power (doubtful though due to their sensitivity). Selecting "balanced" instead of "unbalanced; single-ended" termination may be a wise choice as balanced output usually offers more power. Also, balanced to single-end adapters are easy to come by (for whenever you want/need to go unbalanced)... whereas unbalanced to balanced adaptors are a HUGE "No-No!" as they can severely damage any of your equipment offering balanced outputs.



Thank you very much for the detailed answer 🙏🏼


----------



## Serge Bernamej

The Zen LL is truly a masterpiece. Comfort in all aspects: sound, ergonomics, etc...
Perfectly balanced, I'm very impressed. 
I think nothing in audiophile world has been as gratifying as earbuds.
The Rosemary double foamed is just unbelievable at this price. 
There is no more any monetary obstacles to achiave beautiful audiophile sound.


----------



## Into The Light5

Do anyone know what type of k64 is this? I have no clue about the sensitivity, all i got is this picture, thx before


----------



## cappuchino (May 31, 2021)

Into The Light5 said:


> Do anyone know what type of k64 is this? I have no clue about the sensitivity, all i got is this picture, thx before


It's the new/upgraded version of the K's Earphone 64 ohms earbud. Sells for around 6 USD.

Planning to purchase these buds around the middle of June. If you wanna read first impressions before buying them, maybe wait for some user feedback unless you wanna be the guy himself that gives them for us here 😝

LIIIIINK


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Into The Light5 said:


> Do anyone know what type of k64 is this? I have no clue about the sensitivity, all i got is this picture, thx before


Ks K64 (64Ω @ 105dB ± 2dB)


----------



## Into The Light5 (May 31, 2021)

cappuchino said:


> It's the new/upgraded version of the K's Earphone 64 ohms earbud. Sells for around 6 USD.
> 
> Planning to purchase these buds around the middle of June. If you wanna read first impressions before buying them, maybe wait for some user feedback unless you wanna be the guy himself that gives them for us here 😝
> 
> LIIINNKKK





WoodyLuvr said:


> Ks K64 (64Ω @ 105dB ± 2dB)


I see, so these arent the ks64s right? Just an updated version of ordinary k64?

Edit : actually i bought these along with the ve monk plus, k64 offer bigger soundstage at the cost of less intimate mids


----------



## cappuchino (May 31, 2021)

Into The Light5 said:


> I see, so these arent the ks64s right? Just an updated version of ordinary k64?
> 
> Edit : actually i bought these along with the ve monk plus, k64 offer bigger soundstage at the cost of less intimate mids


The one from your pic looks like the 64s. Though I'm not sure why it doesn't say so on the bag.

More impressions please on the K's
😝 Thank you

Do you have a pic of what the new drivers look like?


----------



## Into The Light5

cappuchino said:


> The one from your pic looks like the 64s. Though I'm not sure why it doesn't say so on the bag.
> 
> More impressions please on the K's
> 😝 Thank you
> ...


If only i know how to safely open these, im afraid to break the driver 😂

Here is my quick review, i use sony zx300
K64 offer bigger soundstage, less intimate, and more impact, monk plus have lusher mids, make it more relaxed and laid back compared to k64, monk plus also have better depth, for build quality i like the k64 more, the cable on k64 have the tangle-free feel to it, remember the earpods? Yeah something like that, monk plus offer more accessories, the packaging of k64 is just plastic with that "ksearphk64" and barcode tag on it, not even a pair of foam, anyway im new so i apologize if there is something wrong with my quick review 😁


----------



## cappuchino (May 31, 2021)

Into The Light5 said:


> If only i know how to safely open these, im afraid to break the driver 😂
> 
> Here is my quick review, i use sony zx300
> K64 offer bigger soundstage, less intimate, and more impact, monk plus have lusher mids, make it more relaxed and laid back compared to k64, monk plus also have better depth, for build quality i like the k64 more, the cable on k64 have the tangle-free feel to it, remember the earpods? Yeah something like that, monk plus offer more accessories, the packaging of k64 is just plastic with that "ksearphk64" and barcode tag on it, not even a pair of foam, anyway im new so i apologize if there is something wrong with my quick review 😁


Thanks a lot! Hmmm... So the 64s sounds like a "fun" V-shape?

Now I don't think I want to buy it based on your impressions 🤣 I do have to admit that the cable looks extra fine for 6 USD. I've always had this mental image for earbuds as "midrange specialists." Generalizing too much, I know 😝 However, reading stuff like "lush(er) mids" on the MP makes me very interested 😃

The Monk Plus's are interesting. They sell for around 4 USD from where I live. If only the new Monk Go's were available on Shopee 😟


By the way, nice DAP you have there 😍

-----------------------------------

Was supposed to buy a Yinman 150 but shipping took waaaaay too long over my tolerance (max. 1 week to ship product). Talked with the seller before ordering and they said they'd be able to ship it immediately. I do understand that it was on Pre-Order (15 days) but I was holding the promise of the store. In the end, I unfortunately cancelled the order.


----------



## furyossa

Into The Light5 said:


> If only i know how to safely open these, im afraid to break the driver 😂
> 
> Here is my quick review, i use sony zx300
> K64 offer bigger soundstage, less intimate, and more impact, monk plus have lusher mids, make it more relaxed and laid back compared to k64, monk plus also have better depth, for build quality i like the k64 more, the cable on k64 have the tangle-free feel to it, remember the earpods? Yeah something like that, monk plus offer more accessories, the packaging of k64 is just plastic with that "ksearphk64" and barcode tag on it, not even a pair of foam, anyway im new so i apologize if there is something wrong with my quick review 😁


I break the driver on my K's 300ohm.  BTW...It's not hard to detach the driver. But it's my fault, I tried to tune it because they sound a bit hollow and after detaching and attaching it a couple of times, the voice coil wire broke. So my white K's 300ohe is gone for good


----------



## Into The Light5

cappuchino said:


> Thanks a lot! Hmmm... So the 64s sounds like a "fun" V-shape?
> 
> Now I don't think I want to buy it based on your impressions 🤣 I do have to admit that the cable looks extra fine for 6 USD. I've always had this mental image for earbuds as "midrange specialists." Generalizing too much, I know 😝 However, reading stuff like "lush(er) mids" on the MP makes me very interested 😃
> 
> ...


Yep i too waiting for the monk go, along with their new pk shell buds 🤘 i will wait for ur yinman impression sir 🤭


furyossa said:


> I break the driver on my K's 300ohm.  BTW...It's not hard to detach the driver. But it's my fault, I tried to tune it because they sound a bit hollow and after detaching and attaching it a couple of times, the voice coil wire broke. So my white K's 300ohe is gone for good


Mannn that suck, i do interested with the k300, unfortunately the clear shell is sold out, cant find it in aliex, only the blue shell left, probably have different driver too


----------



## furyossa (May 31, 2021)

Into The Light5 said:


> Mannn that suck, i do interested with the k300, unfortunately the clear shell is sold out, cant find it in aliex, only the blue shell left, probably have different driver too


One thing about transparent shells. They may look cool, but due to the very cheap plastic, they are more susceptible to resonance compared to opaque shells.
K's 300ohm has hollow sound, and they need additional tuning. I also tried 300ohm DIY N52 drivers, and it has similar problem, but it is much more
resistant to torture (I tried it on more than 10 shells, and it still works). It's mid-bass centric driver with recessed mids and roll of highs but it's fun driver for sure.
This is the final look


----------



## Sam L

baskingshark said:


> Haha the way u are putting it, is Yincrow X6 like the BLON BL-03 of the earbud world?


Yes, I think that's a fair comparison. I still think the default tuning of the me-80 is more iem friendly than the x6, but with the me-80 long gone, the x6 is an excellent alternative to start the earbud journey. I still still use my eq settings with the x6 though.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> Yes, I think that's a fair comparison. I still think the default tuning of the me-80 is more iem friendly than the x6, but with the me-80 long gone, the x6 is an excellent alternative to start the earbud journey. I still still use my eq settings with the x6 though.


How is the Me80 more iem friendly?

I mean, the reason I believe the X6 is one of the most iem friendly buds, is that it actually has sub-bass. Which the ME80 doesnt have in comparison lol.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> How is the Me80 more iem friendly?
> 
> I mean, the reason I believe the X6 is one of the most iem friendly buds, is that it actually has sub-bass. Which the ME80 doesnt have in comparison lol.


I haven't had a chance to hear the X6 but from your description I think it could rank somewhere between the OG EBX and ME80


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> How is the Me80 more iem friendly?
> 
> I mean, the reason I believe the X6 is one of the most iem friendly buds, is that it actually has sub-bass. Which the ME80 doesnt have in comparison lol.


Agreed with the x6 sub bass. In my opinion, if an iem user has never heard an earbud before, the biggest difference they will hear from the two formats is fairly consistent lower mid bloat, which can be off-putting for some iem users since this rarely occurs with iems. While the x6 doesn't have much lower mid bloat, it's still there.


----------



## Carrow

Talking to @costas23 in PMs about something and he brought up something that made me wonder: are there literally any DIY earbud makers/recabling services in Europe? I don't mind yeeting pairs all the way to somewhere in South East Asia or the like (have done before) but Europe-based would be FAR more convenient, haha.


----------



## furyossa

Carrow said:


> Talking to @costas23 in PMs about something and he brought up something that made me wonder: are there literally any DIY earbud makers/recabling services in Europe? I don't mind yeeting pairs all the way to somewhere in South East Asia or the like (have done before) but Europe-based would be FAR more convenient, haha.


For headphones is not a problem, but I wish DIY earbud makers/recabling services exist in Europe. It probably wouldn't be cheap, that's for sure


----------



## waynes world

RikudouGoku said:


> Well...I dont like the B40 lol.
> 
> The X6 on the other hand...go get it.



Just curious: why don't you like the B40?

I love the X6's, but I recently dug out the B40's to give them a spin. I apply a bit of bass boost to them, and I think they are great! I like the form factor as well. I'm surprised they discontinued them.


----------



## RikudouGoku

waynes world said:


> Just curious: why don't you like the B40?
> 
> I love the X6's, but I recently dug out the B40's to give them a spin. I apply a bit of bass boost to them, and I think they are great! I like the form factor as well. I'm surprised they discontinued them.


Too long since I last used it..but I felt that the other stuff at that price. NiceHCK MX500, NiceHCK ME80, Faaeal Iris are all a lot better to me.


----------



## Ronion

Well supposedly I just have 3 days until my Yincrow X6 arrives and not the 60 some odd days it was saying 3 days ago!  I hope that’s correct.  

I am surprised that the Faaeal Snow Lotus gets ranked behind the Iris here.  To me, the Iris is just too dark.  The Snow Lotus seems fairly even handed....the Snow Lotus is much closer to my other gear FWIW and I’ve always tried to buy the most neutral stuff I could find.


----------



## zhibli06

Serge Bernamej said:


> The Zen LL is truly a masterpiece. Comfort in all aspects: sound, ergonomics, etc...
> Perfectly balanced, I'm very impressed.
> I think nothing in audiophile world has been as gratifying as earbuds.
> The Rosemary double foamed is just unbelievable at this price.
> There is no more any monetary obstacles to achiave beautiful audiophile sound.


i assume that is the Zen LL standard Edition rite?

Cheers

Lee


----------



## WoodyLuvr

zhibli06 said:


> i assume that is the Zen LL standard Edition rite?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Lee


Hey there Lee! Long time no hear! Hope you and yours are fairing well. I was just asking Wong and Willy the other day if they had heard from you or not to know if you were well.


----------



## zhibli06

WoodyLuvr said:


> Hey there Lee! Long time no hear! Hope you and yours are fairing well. I was just asking Wong and Willy the other day if they had heard from you or not to know if you were well.


i am not sure which wong or willy you meant （ i know a few lol)

and yes, I am great~


----------



## zhibli06

WoodyLuvr said:


> Hey there Lee! Long time no hear! Hope you and yours are fairing well. I was just asking Wong and Willy the other day if they had heard from you or not to know if you were well.


will be making a lot of our earbud lovers very happy soon btw


----------



## cappuchino (Jun 2, 2021)

Very interesting for ~24 USD.









If it doesn't sound good and if you have the soldering skills to DIY an MMCX/2-Pin, then you just bought the cheapest Hakugei cable on the market, as far as the ones I have seen. Comes with free earbuds 😝

LINK


----------



## FranQL

zhibli06 said:


> will be making a lot of our earbud lovers very happy soon btw



We will be attentive to your news, for my part I hope it is not a TOLT bud.


----------



## zhibli06

FranQL said:


> We will be attentive to your news, for my part I hope it is not a TOLT bud.


depending on what you meant bro ,it is something that i can sell for 200usd+, but wont.
i wanna u all stay home as a much as you can, so we will do our bit.
and in the mean time, making a lot of earbud lovers happy~

Cheers

Lee


----------



## FranQL

zhibli06 said:


> depending on what you meant bro ,it is something that i can sell for 200usd+, but wont.
> i wanna u all stay home as a much as you can, so we will do our bit.
> and in the mean time, making a lot of earbud lovers happy~
> 
> ...



Well, in that case, we speak the same language👍


----------



## zhibli06

FranQL said:


> Well, in that case, we speak the same language👍


----------



## 1Q84

zhibli06 said:


> depending on what you meant bro ,it is something that i can sell for 200usd+, but wont.
> i wanna u all stay home as a much as you can, so we will do our bit.
> and in the mean time, making a lot of earbud lovers happy~
> 
> ...


Hi sir, is it possible to have your products available also on shopee? I live in the PH and wanted to try the Zen 2.0 and other TOTL VE earbuds but the only option we have now is thru Ali which has ridiculous shipping rates compared to shopee.


----------



## zhibli06

1Q84 said:


> Hi sir, is it possible to have your products available also on shopee? I live in the PH and wanted to try the Zen 2.0 and other TOTL VE earbuds but the only option we have now is thru Ali which has ridiculous shipping rates compared to shopee.


www.veclan.com, i am not sure about Aliexpress, but if you are buying zen 2.0....you r probly getting free shipping from my site (unless you demand premium options like dhl).

SF Global is normally pretty decent, speed wise, as for shopee, we are looking into the possibility of having a store, or some even better.

for shopee, you do have to do a LOT of work....like shipping them and storage them in PH which....is hard for us to do imho , but there are a LOT of ways to save on shipping. and we are looking into options.

so in short, do I wanna open a shopee store, HELL YEAH, but can i? not sure lol.

Cheers
Lee


----------



## 40760

Welcome back Lee... looking forward to your upcoming metal PK earbuds...


----------



## 1Q84

zhibli06 said:


> www.veclan.com, i am not sure about Aliexpress, but if you are buying zen 2.0....you r probly getting free shipping from my site (unless you demand premium options like dhl).
> 
> SF Global is normally pretty decent, speed wise, as for shopee, we are looking into the possibility of having a store, or some even better.
> 
> ...


Cool. Thanks. Will check your site and shipping options, though I forgot to mention that another good thing with shopee is that they allow COD. Also, I find shipping thru post in our country is not reliable. XD


----------



## furyossa

palestofwhite said:


> Welcome back Lee... looking forward to your upcoming metal PK earbuds...


Are you referring to tungsten?   Ceramic sound nice to ... no fun intended.
Seriously ... it would be really nice to try some other materials besides cheap plastic.
Wood can be good option for sure, or stab wood for a premium look & feel


----------



## zhibli06

1Q84 said:


> Cool. Thanks. Will check your site and shipping options, though I forgot to mention that another good thing with shopee is that they allow COD. Also, I find shipping thru post in our country is not reliable. XD


i will look into it , thx buddy~


----------



## zhibli06

furyossa said:


> Are you referring to tungsten?   Ceramic sound nice to ... no fun intended.
> Seriously ... it would be really nice to try some other materials besides cheap plastic.
> Wood can be good option for sure, or stab wood for a premium look & feel


you can't cut wood with enough precision for earbuds... imho, we need vent for earbuds , and ...

well let me keep some them for our up coming youtube channel.



palestofwhite said:


> Welcome back Lee... looking forward to your upcoming metal PK earbuds...


thx buddy

Cheers

Lee


----------



## furyossa (Jun 1, 2021)

zhibli06 said:


> you can't cut wood with enough precision for earbuds... imho, we need vent for earbuds , and ...
> 
> well let me keep some them for our up coming youtube channel.
> 
> ...


What I mean is not related to MX500, PK or other shells with complex shape. Simple bell or funnel-shaped buds are possible to make it out of wood.
This is a purely rough example that definitely needs to be worked on in order to improve comfortbut you have to admit that these wood patterns look beautiful 





And you've probably seen the remarkable use of wood for IEM shells


----------



## zhibli06

furyossa said:


> What I mean is not related to MX500, PK or other shells with complex shape. Simple bell or funnel-shaped buds are possible to make it out of wood.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


nice looking earbuds, but the wood is very uneven （density wise）, i say stabilized wood is ok for iems, but for earbud u might be better off with metal vents if you have to use wood as a main shell(i saw those around), ppl is a free to make whatever into earbud~ but as a business , i don't think it is easy to get a good and balanced(from left to right) sound out of wood for earbud~cuz of the venting issue (if not the body being uneven density itself)


----------



## furyossa

zhibli06 said:


> nice looking earbuds, but the wood is very uneven （density wise）, i say stabilized wood is ok for iems, but for earbud u might be better off with metal vents if you have to use wood as a main shell(i saw those around), ppl is a free to make whatever into earbud~ but as a business , i don't think it is easy to get a good and balanced(from left to right) sound out of wood for earbud~cuz of the venting issue (if not the body being uneven density itself)


Yup. I agree to combine wood (for simple shape) and mental (for complex shapes). Density wise, not every wood can be used for shell. Stab wood is another story.


----------



## zhibli06

furyossa said:


> Yup. I agree to combine wood (for simple shape) and mental (for complex shapes). Density wise, not every wood can be used for shell. Stab wood is another story.


even stab wood, it is a bad idea to cut vents on it , but metal vent is ok to a extend, just a lot of work for probly no again imho for earbud~

i will explain more in my up coming videos ~ 

cheers

Lee 

p.s. gotta run, won't be replying more today  , i have to finish some video tonight (for my hobby haha )


----------



## Serge Bernamej

zhibli06 said:


> i assume that is the Zen LL standard Edition rite?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Lee


Sorry no I only own the Special Edition one.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

zhibli06 said:


> will be making a lot of our earbud lovers very happy soon btw


GREAT NEWS !!!! An honor to see you here.


----------



## zhibli06

Serge Bernamej said:


> GREAT NEWS !!!! An honor to see you here.


oh the special edition is more like a total tuning.

normal edition is a great sleepbud, i use my normal all the time when i am watching anime before falling asleep (more warm and stuff)


Cheers

Lee

p.s. glad you like them, i am just another head-fier~


----------



## furyossa

zhibli06 said:


> p.s. gotta run, won't be replying more today , i have to finish some video tonight (for my hobby haha )


Can you post your video here? It would be nice to have on this thread the "Late Night Show"


----------



## WoodyLuvr

My _*2.5mm Balanced Headphone Extension Cable*_ arrived today from *XINHS HIFI AUDIO* as kindly recommended by *@RikudouGoku *

Supple and finely made. I am very pleased to say the very least. Included was a nice little gray travel case.


 


*2.5TRRS Female to 2.5TRRS Male; 8-Strand Single Crystal Copper Plated Silver; Length 75cm (by request)*


----------



## GREQ

Just opened them up for a bit of careful cleaning...


----------



## furyossa

GREQ said:


> Just opened them up for a bit of careful cleaning...


Maria?
This front tweeters are nice and clean 🪄 Great job, man  I like how they solved these woofer openings.
They look a bit heavy ... how is the comfort?


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> My _*2.5mm Balanced Headphone Extension Cable*_ arrived today from *XINHS HIFI AUDIO* as kindly recommended by *@RikudouGoku *
> 
> Supple and finely made. I am very pleased to say the very least. Included was a nice little gray travel case.
> 
> *2.5TRRS Female to 2.5TRRS Male; 8-Strand Single Crystal Copper Plated Silver; Length 75cm (by request)*


Glad you like it! How much did you pay?


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> My _*2.5mm Balanced Headphone Extension Cable*_ arrived today from *XINHS HIFI AUDIO* as kindly recommended by *@RikudouGoku *
> 
> Supple and finely made. I am very pleased to say the very least. Included was a nice little gray travel case.
> 
> *2.5TRRS Female to 2.5TRRS Male; 8-Strand Single Crystal Copper Plated Silver; Length 75cm (by request)*


Beautiful! These tiny plugs fit really nicely with the cable.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 1, 2021)

cappuchino said:


> Very interesting for ~24 USD.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yup. It's hard to believe 
If we follow the example of the new EBX2K21 model then the price of the cable should be 50% of the price of the product, so the cable worth $12.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> Glad you like it! How much did you pay?


USD $27.86


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> USD $27.86


It seems more expensive, I expected you to say between $40-$50


----------



## WoodyLuvr

furyossa said:


> It seems more expensive, I expected you to say between $40-$50


Concur! I am quite flabbergasted by the quality of both workmanship and materials. The customer service was absolutely top-notch as well; thoughtful and precise communication.


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur! I am quite flabbergasted by the quality of both workmanship and materials. The customer service was absolutely top-notch as well; thoughtful and precise communication.


A good price for sure. XINHS really is a treasure horde of cables.


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> Yup. It's hard to believe
> If we follow the example of the new EBX2K21 model then the price of the cable should be 50% of the price of the product, so the cable worth $12.


great deduction !!!


----------



## FranQL

RikudouGoku said:


> A good price for sure. XINHS really is a treasure horde of cables.


I have been tempted, but the connectors do not convince me


----------



## Сomrade

WoodyLuvr said:


> 8-Strand Single Crystal Copper Plated Silver


Price as for pure gold


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Yup. It's hard to believe
> If we follow the example of the new EBX2K21 model then the price of the cable should be 50% of the price of the product, so the cable worth $12.


IMO, that cable looks like it would be sold for at least 100 usd normally lol.

Looking at you, NiceHCK Blocc....









FranQL said:


> I have been tempted, but the connectors do not convince me


If you dont like the connectors, just ask him to change them.


----------



## FranQL

RikudouGoku said:


> IMO, that cable looks like it would be sold for at least 100 usd normally lol.
> 
> Looking at you, NiceHCK Blocc....
> 
> ...



Well, I have a bud that I think deserves a copper wire "one of the good ones" so I make an order the same.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> IMO, that cable looks like it would be sold for at least 100 usd normally lol.
> 
> Looking at you, NiceHCK Blocc....


I don't like black paracord cables, only the rainbow one 


RikudouGoku said:


> If you dont like the connectors, just ask him to change them.


Don't tempt him, he will probably buy 5 cables


----------



## FranQL

FranQL said:


> Well, I have a bud that I think deserves a copper wire "one of the good ones" so I make an order the same.


I usually buy this cable with custom connectors




this is the one that seems good to me by Xinhs


----------



## furyossa (Jun 1, 2021)

this is the one that seems good to me by Xinhs

You have a good eyes my friend.


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> this is the one that seems good to me by Xinhs
> 
> You have a good eyes my friend.


Thats cable A11, measures at 0,17 ohms. So definitely a good cable, although cable A3 is still the nr 1 copper cable rec but if you want to customize it, then the A11 is the better option of course.


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> You have a good eyes my friend.



For buds I have not bought that type of cables yet, in addition to being expensive, in a matter of comfort the ones I use in all my buds mmcx I think they will be insurmountable.


----------



## zhibli06 (Jun 1, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Can you post your video here? It would be nice to have on this thread the "Late Night Show"


it is not really head-fi related, I do videos on gaming handheld as a hobby , but mostly in Chinese, i will link our videos to our group once we started our own official videos though

Cheers

Lee


----------



## Blueshound24

Probably asked a zillion times already here, but what are pros/cons of Yincrow x6 vs rw-9?
FWIW. In my limited time with earbuds, my fav, by a large amount, is Willsound MK2.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Blueshound24 said:


> Probably asked a zillion times already here, but what are pros/cons of Yincrow x6 vs rw-9?
> FWIW. In my limited time with earbuds, my fav, by a large amount, is Willsound MK2.


RW-9 is more V-shaped than the L-shaped X6. It has more bass quantity but sacrifices quality for it. More recessed mids as well and the treble is boosted to compensate for the bass quantity. IMO the X6 is tuned a lot better and has a more natural timbre as well. Technicalities might be a bit better on the RW-9 but that is because of the boosted treble (fake details) and recessed mids helping the soundstage. 

I take the X6 10/10 over the RW-9. Of course, If I didnt have the X6, the RW-9 is still a set I would like a lot.


----------



## Sam L

Blueshound24 said:


> Probably asked a zillion times already here, but what are pros/cons of Yincrow x6 vs rw-9?
> FWIW. In my limited time with earbuds, my fav, by a large amount, is Willsound MK2.




I prefer the x6 over the rw9, but for me, it's a toss-up. The cable on the rw9 is much better than the x6 cable, though.


----------



## Blueshound24

Sam L said:


> I prefer the x6 over the rw9, but for me, it's a toss-up. The cable on the rw9 is much better than the x6 cable, though.





RikudouGoku said:


> RW-9 is more V-shaped than the L-shaped X6. It has more bass quantity but sacrifices quality for it. More recessed mids as well and the treble is boosted to compensate for the bass quantity. IMO the X6 is tuned a lot better and has a more natural timbre as well. Technicalities might be a bit better on the RW-9 but that is because of the boosted treble (fake details) and recessed mids helping the soundstage.
> 
> I take the X6 10/10 over the RW-9. Of course, If I didnt have the X6, the RW-9 is still a set I would like a lot.




Any idea which would mirror the MK2's signature more?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Blueshound24 said:


> Any idea which would mirror the MK2's signature more?


I havent heard it, so no clue.


----------



## Grev

Got the Yincrow x6 a week ago and finally using it more now, used the earbud anon sets for 3 years or so daily.

More treble on the x6 with less cutoff, and less mid/high-bass, sounds good though.

This is after getting a few TOTL sets and didn’t like any of them.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

cappuchino said:


> Very interesting for ~24 USD.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


https://aliexpress.ru/item/1005002722779433.html


----------



## furyossa (Jun 2, 2021)

Alex.Grimm said:


> https://aliexpress.ru/item/1005002722779433.html



This smells fishy to me.................................................................


----------



## arar

Are there any, like, slimmer and maybe a bit denser foams for buds like the Yincrow X6 that won't change the sound signature too much vs. the foams that come with them? The X6 with stock foams are very comfortable already, but I think they'd be even better if the foams were just bit less thick.


----------



## furyossa

arar said:


> Are there any, like, slimmer and maybe a bit denser foams for buds like the Yincrow X6 that won't change the sound signature too much vs. the foams that come with them? The X6 with stock foams are very comfortable already, but I think they'd be even better if the foams were just bit less thick.


Have you tried "donuts"?...or maybe this


----------



## GREQ

furyossa said:


> Maria?
> This front tweeters are nice and clean 🪄Great job, man I like how they solved these woofer openings.
> They look a bit heavy ... how is the comfort?


Not Maria, since the Maria has detachable cables  

Weight is OK, comfort is OK... fit is pretty bad (loose).


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 4, 2021)

arar said:


> Are there any, like, slimmer and maybe a bit denser foams for buds like the Yincrow X6 that won't change the sound signature too much vs. the foams that come with them? The X6 with stock foams are very comfortable already, but I think they'd be even better if the foams were just bit less thick.





furyossa said:


> Have you tried "donuts"?...or maybe this


Indeed, the *Trig Rain Thins*, as suggested by *@furyossa*, are of excellent quality. Also, *Venture Electronics Ultra Thins* in *VE's Ex-Pack* are very thin and great as well.




*VE Ultra Thin*


----------



## arar

WoodyLuvr said:


> Indeed, the *Trig Rain Thins*, as suggested by *@furyossa*, are of excellent quality. Also, *VE Ultra Thins* in *VE's Ex-Pack* are very thin and great as well.
> 
> 
> *VE Ultra Thin*



Ultra Thin, huh? Feels like I'm shopping for something, cough, _completely different_ than earbud foams. Thanks a lot you two! Might as well try them both.


----------



## zhibli06

arar said:


> Ultra Thin, huh? Feels like I'm shopping for something, cough, _completely different_ than earbud foams. Thanks a lot you two! Might as well try them both.


we even have a 001 lol


----------



## gordonderp

Been using my Smabat ST-10 Silvers for a few months now and after EQing them I don't think I'll need to buy any new headphones/buds for a while, very happy with them right now. 

I used to use open back headphones but had to stop using them because I would get acne where the pads would sit on my face, so I moved to IEMs. Really missed that open feeling from open back feeling from my old headphones, so I when I was looking around for alternatives I found this thread which has been very helpful for me.

Not really much of an audiophile don't even use an amp or DAC because I'm lazy lol, so maybe I can't hear some of the finer details that people have critiqued on these buds. I'll just say that I'm very happy with my purchase.


----------



## furyossa

gordonderp said:


> Been using my Smabat ST-10 Silvers for a few months now and after EQing them I don't think I'll need to buy any new headphones/buds for a while, very happy with them right now.
> 
> I used to use open back headphones but had to stop using them because I would get acne where the pads would sit on my face, so I moved to IEMs. Really missed that open feeling from open back feeling from my old headphones, so I when I was looking around for alternatives I found this thread which has been very helpful for me.
> 
> Not really much of an audiophile don't even use an amp or DAC because I'm lazy lol, so maybe I can't hear some of the finer details that people have critiqued on these buds. I'll just say that I'm very happy with my purchase.


You are lucky because you find one pair that suit your needs. 
BTW... Don't stay on this thread for long, because you will probably end up with the whole Smabat lineup


----------



## headenvelopedinsound (Jun 3, 2021)

gordonderp said:


> Been using my Smabat ST-10 Silvers for a few months now and after EQing them I don't think I'll need to buy any new headphones/buds for a while, very happy with them right now.
> 
> I used to use open back headphones but had to stop using them because I would get acne where the pads would sit on my face, so I moved to IEMs. Really missed that open feeling from open back feeling from my old headphones, so I when I was looking around for alternatives I found this thread which has been very helpful for me.
> 
> Not really much of an audiophile don't even use an amp or DAC because I'm lazy lol, so maybe I can't hear some of the finer details that people have critiqued on these buds. I'll just say that I'm very happy with my purchase.


I much prefer the silver driver to the gold driver as far as the ST-10s goes. It is near smack dab in the middle of the original ST10 and M1Pro. It is also the exact same driver they put in their M2Pro and honestly don't hear that huge a difference between the M2Pro and the ST10s silver. Minor to say the least. Glad you like and enjoy them. I have been using the M2 and ST10s shells for DIY. I have many buds but I am finding I grab the original green ST10 or my M2Pro with 600ohm beryllium near 98% of the time.

Side note jumped back into the forum to mention I have some Galaxy Buds Live coming in later today. Can't wait to try these things out. Been interested for awhile and since I saw them for sure a good price snagged them. Have TWS iems but no buds and feel it's overdue to give them a go.

EDIT: furyossa's words of wisdom right there! haha. be warned this rabbit hole runs deep.


----------



## Serge Bernamej (Jun 3, 2021)

zhibli06 said:


> we even have a 001 lol


It’s not possible to order many foams and large silicone fins ?
I know i don’t care for the small fins and the rings that come with the ex pack.


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

furyossa said:


> You are lucky because you find one pair that suit your needs.
> BTW... Don't stay on this thread for long, because you will probably end up with the whole Smabat lineup


Truth!


furyossa said:


> this is the one that seems good to me by Xinhs
> 
> You have a good eyes my friend.


This guys cables are awesome. I ordered a braided copper for my S6Pro for my live performance needs and could not be more pleased. He even included a really nice grey case and 8 core cable along with it that is nicer than the standard lot of upgrade cables you see on Ali. This is the one I chose  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001738129525.html?spm=2114.13010708.0.0.3a994c4dzjUs0v


----------



## furyossa (Jun 3, 2021)

headenvelopedinsound said:


> Truth!
> 
> This guys cables are awesome. I ordered a braided copper for my S6Pro for my live performance needs and could not be more pleased. He even included a really nice grey case and 8 core cable along with it that is nicer than the standard lot of upgrade cables you see on Ali. This is the one I chose  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001738129525.html?spm=2114.13010708.0.0.3a994c4dzjUs0v


Another beautiful cable from XINHS HIFI especially this beige tone.  
The price is really reasonable and this would be an ideal solution for earbuds in my opinion, I mean 4 core cable with smaller profile for jack and connectors.
Minimalistic and elegant.


----------



## furyossa

headenvelopedinsound said:


> I much prefer the silver driver to the gold driver as far as the ST-10s goes. It is near smack dab in the middle of the original ST10 and M1Pro. It is also the exact same driver they put in their M2Pro and honestly don't hear that huge a difference between the M2Pro and the ST10s silver. Minor to say the least. Glad you like and enjoy them. I have been using the M2 and ST10s shells for DIY. I have many buds but I am finding I grab the original green ST10 or my M2Pro with 600ohm beryllium near 98% of the time.
> 
> Side note jumped back into the forum to mention I have some Galaxy Buds Live coming in later today. Can't wait to try these things out. Been interested for awhile and since I saw them for sure a good price snagged them. Have TWS iems but no buds and feel it's overdue to give them a go.
> 
> EDIT: furyossa's words of wisdom right there! haha. be warned this rabbit hole runs deep.


Is there a big difference between M1Pro and M2Pro modular solutions? Is the use of the DIY driver easier and is there a difference in sound?


----------



## Dany1

Just got the JCally EP09 and tbh i'm kinda disappointed with their sound. I don't know if my pair is faulty or what. But these sound so thin. There's almost no bass presence. Which makes them sound really dull and boring. Currently, i'm finding the NiceHck Traceless to sound way better and enjoyable than these. I'm using the Jcally EP09 with Fiio BTR5 and honestly bass is no where to be found. They're the most thin sounding earbud currently in my collection right now and i would not recommend them if these actually sound like these.


----------



## furyossa

Dany1 said:


> Just got the JCally EP09 and tbh i'm kinda disappointed with their sound. I don't know if my pair is faulty or what. But these sound so thin. There's almost no bass presence. Which makes them sound really dull and boring. Currently, i'm finding the NiceHck Traceless to sound way better and enjoyable than these. I'm using the Jcally EP09 with Fiio BTR5 and honestly bass is no where to be found. They're the most thin sounding earbud currently in my collection right now and i would not recommend them if these actually sound like these.


I don't know what to tell more about these buds. There are some mixed comment, one said that is good and other that is bad. 
Is this review accurate at all?


----------



## slex

Dany1 said:


> Just got the JCally EP09 and tbh i'm kinda disappointed with their sound. I don't know if my pair is faulty or what. But these sound so thin. There's almost no bass presence. Which makes them sound really dull and boring. Currently, i'm finding the NiceHck Traceless to sound way better and enjoyable than these. I'm using the Jcally EP09 with Fiio BTR5 and honestly bass is no where to be found. They're the most thin sounding earbud currently in my collection right now and i would not recommend them if these actually sound like these.


Same experience here too, no way theres a tinge of berylium sound in it. Even my cheap MX500 sounds better.


----------



## furyossa

slex said:


> Same experience here too, no way theres a tinge of berylium sound in it. Even my cheap MX500 sounds better.


Not only that but spec on Ali seem completely vague. Congested sound came from bad vent system


----------



## golov17 (Jun 3, 2021)

FranQL said:


> A "pure" V shape in buds I think is impossible to get. of what I have tried, perhaps the 1008 is the closest thing.


Try Ostry kc08t wthout color marks.
https://kdgadget.com/ostry-kc08a/

Details about KC


----------



## Ronion

Okay, so I have several ear buds coming my way.  This is the order that I purchased them starting with the most recent: the EarBuds Anonymous Ear Buds, the Fengru Cat Ear Audio Mimi, the Fengru DIY Tingo TC200, the VE Monk Lite 120 Ohm, the QianYun Qian69, and the Yincrow X6.

I was attempting to get a representation of several ear bud shell shapes and fairly well reviewed examples That didn’t cost too much.  The Yincrow, QianYun, and TC200 are presently stuck in customs while the Mimi and Monks are on the boat.  The Earbuds Anon I just ordered so I assume it will be a while on them.  

I want to do a shootout that has some credibility to it and I’d appreciate suggestions from the contributors here on how to conduct it.  Should I burn all these in for some time before even starting?  Is there a good way to ‘reset’ my hearing in between the listening tests (like using a fairly neutral can like the HD650)?  I am open to any and all suggestions And I’m more than willing to send some of these on a tour afterwards.

Thanks in advance


----------



## RikudouGoku

Ronion said:


> Okay, so I have several ear buds coming my way.  This is the order that I purchased them starting with the most recent: the EarBuds Anonymous Ear Buds, the Fengru Cat Ear Audio Mimi, the Fengru DIY Tingo TC200, the VE Monk Lite 120 Ohm, the QianYun Qian69, and the Yincrow X6.
> 
> I was attempting to get a representation of several ear bud shell shapes and fairly well reviewed examples That didn’t cost too much.  The Yincrow, QianYun, and TC200 are presently stuck in customs while the Mimi and Monks are on the boat.  The Earbuds Anon I just ordered so I assume it will be a while on them.
> 
> ...


The best way IMO to reset your hearing. Is to just go to sleep and do the rest of the comparisons the next day.


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

furyossa said:


> Is there a big difference between M1Pro and M2Pro modular solutions? Is the use of the DIY driver easier and is there a difference in sound?


Yeah man those cables are amazing. I am planning on getting another balanced for my Planars. Feel like they may be to bulky for buds but maybe not. 

Ok Smabat M1Pro is just about as flat as you are going to get. A little more warmth than my Fearless S6Pro and LSR305 studio monitors. Very comfortable set. 

Smabat M2Pro is imho the sweet spot between the M1Pro and the ST10/s series. The driver in the standard, non DIY, M2Pro is identical to the ST10s silver. You get about 3db to much in the 2-3khz range but it's easily overlooked by the aural sensations you get from the openness of sound and more high end detail/extension.

I ordered the gold driver as well but just isn't my thing. Not heard it in a long while but I gave it a fair go and just wasn't impressed. They are actually in my ST10s silver shells currently.  

Smabat M2Pro DIY - recommend to just stay away unless you are just buying for shells. They send you the black plastic face driver which is what they call the "Vocal" driver and it is by far bottom of my driver collection... it just sounds bad. Since M2Pro is already modular you can just swap out the drivers. What I ended up doing is just harvesting the little silver rings off the "DIY Vocal" drivers and that all you do is snap those onto the back of any 15.6 driver you have. Just pry gently with a smaller screw driver or a guitar pick. 

And as far as working with them, you are a seasoned DIY bud builder, it is all very easy. 

Smabat M2Pro standard version is the buy to make. After that you can snap off the little backs and try out other drivers if you feel like it. The stock tuning discs are my favorite as well.


----------



## furyossa

headenvelopedinsound said:


> Yeah man those cables are amazing. I am planning on getting another balanced for my Planars. Feel like they may be to bulky for buds but maybe not.
> 
> Ok Smabat M1Pro is just about as flat as you are going to get. A little more warmth than my Fearless S6Pro and LSR305 studio monitors. Very comfortable set.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this extensive explanation. I see you've become a doctor for Smabat modular system.  
It would be nice, of course when you have free time, if you could make some presentation with images about using DIY drivers with a Smabat modular shell. 
I think it will be interesting for the other members. You can post on the DIY earbuds thread


----------



## Dany1

slex said:


> Same experience here too, no way theres a tinge of berylium sound in it. Even my cheap MX500 sounds better.


Exactly my thoughts. How would i know what magic beryllium is doing, when there's not even an ounce of decent bass present in the overall sound. It's not even a fit issue, even if i really try to put these deep in my ears, the bass is still really weak and the treble region just sounds bit harsh because there's nothing present in the low-end to balance and add warmth to the sound.

I believe there are some unit variations and quality control issue with their beryllium diaphragms. I have heard over 6 really well recommended earbuds and they despite being much cheaper are sounding much better and enjoyable because they have better low-end. My JCally EP09 unit in its current state is really not usable. I try listening to them and then i wonder why am i even trying to force myself to like these. The sound is clearly not good on these.

Anyway, I'll give them a 50 hours burn-in and see if things start to change. I really hope they do otherwise i'll just keep these as a showpiece in my collection. The build quality is quiet good on these and the cable looks and feels amazing.


----------



## waynes world

headenvelopedinsound said:


> Truth!
> 
> This guys cables are awesome. I ordered a braided copper for my S6Pro for my live performance needs and could not be more pleased. He even included a really nice grey case and 8 core cable along with it that is nicer than the standard lot of upgrade cables you see on Ali. This is the one I chose  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001738129525.html?spm=2114.13010708.0.0.3a994c4dzjUs0v



Thanks! Yes, that cable looks nice. I really like the fabric casing. And I like the 4 core for less bulkiness/weight.

Is the cable fairly flexible and supple? Many of my cables end up getting stiff which is annoying.

And I wonder if it could be made without the earhook bend. I would be using it for the ST10's, but I like to wear them cable down. I'll ask them.

I'll have to check out what other cables they have!


----------



## RikudouGoku

waynes world said:


> Thanks! Yes, that cable looks nice. I really like the fabric casing. And I like the 4 core for less bulkiness/weight.
> 
> Is the cable fairly flexible and supple? Many of my cables end up getting stiff which is annoying.
> 
> ...


Yes, you can ask him to remove the hooks. Actually, you can ask him to create an entirely new cable for you if you want. Thats how this cable got created.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002350509830.html

Its a cable I designed and they liked it enough to sell it lol.


----------



## waynes world

RikudouGoku said:


> Yes, you can ask him to remove the hooks. Actually, you can ask him to create an entirely new cable for you if you want. Thats how this cable got created.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002350509830.html
> 
> Its a cable I designed and they liked it enough to sell it lol.



Nicely done! I wonder why your cable costs less than the 4 core?


----------



## axhng

Dany1 said:


> Exactly my thoughts. How would i know what magic beryllium is doing, when there's not even an ounce of decent bass present in the overall sound. It's not even a fit issue, even if i really try to put these deep in my ears, the bass is still really weak and the treble region just sounds bit harsh because there's nothing present in the low-end to balance and add warmth to the sound.
> 
> I believe there are some unit variations and quality control issue with their beryllium diaphragms. I have heard over 6 really well recommended earbuds and they despite being much cheaper are sounding much better and enjoyable because they have better low-end. My JCally EP09 unit in its current state is really not usable. I try listening to them and then i wonder why am i even trying to force myself to like these. The sound is clearly not good on these.
> 
> Anyway, I'll give them a 50 hours burn-in and see if things start to change. I really hope they do otherwise i'll just keep these as a showpiece in my collection. The build quality is quiet good on these and the cable looks and feels amazing.


It could be unit variations and QC for sure since they are still on the cheaper side of things. For my unit, I think the bass quantity is pretty typical for earbuds (which is to say pretty light), but maybe it's a bit too tight? The decay seems a tad too fast so it lacks the extra warmth that other earbuds, especially those with MX500 shells seems to give in the mid bass region? Detail retrieval does seem better as a result. But my personal issue with it is probably more in the midrange rather than the treble. In tracks with vocals that hits the right frequencies, they sound a bit honky and congested. It's a somewhat weird tuning to me in the sense that there is a small rise at around 800Hz to 1KHz, then it dips noticeably till ~1.4KHz before rising again sharply to 3KHz. For some tracks it still sounds okay, but in some tracks it sounds a bit off to me. I think it's still listenable most of the time, but not my favourite or most natural sounding for sure. But YMMV of course since different folks have different hearing, different preference, different choice of music, etc. Also for me some earbuds sounds better with a snug fit, some (faael iris CE, nicehck b40) sounds better if I loosen them a bit or tilt them slightly, and make them "not fit as nicely". But either way, the EP09 for me isn't a pair of earbuds that I will actively choose to listen to since I have a bunch of other buds that I enjoy more.


----------



## RikudouGoku

waynes world said:


> Nicely done! I wonder why your cable costs less than the 4 core?


No idea. I personally won't buy a cable above 40 usd as that is too expensive for a cable.


----------



## Sam L

gordonderp said:


> Been using my Smabat ST-10 Silvers for a few months now and after EQing them I don't think I'll need to buy any new headphones/buds for a while, very happy with them right now.
> 
> I used to use open back headphones but had to stop using them because I would get acne where the pads would sit on my face, so I moved to IEMs. Really missed that open feeling from open back feeling from my old headphones, so I when I was looking around for alternatives I found this thread which has been very helpful for me.
> 
> Not really much of an audiophile don't even use an amp or DAC because I'm lazy lol, so maybe I can't hear some of the finer details that people have critiqued on these buds. I'll just say that I'm very happy with my purchase.


what is your source?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 4, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Yes, you can ask him to remove the hooks. Actually, you can ask him to create an entirely new cable for you if you want. Thats how this cable got created.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002350509830.html
> 
> Its a cable I designed and they liked it enough to sell it lol.


That is _so, so_ _purdy! _I am really liking my new custom *2.5TRRS Headphone Extension Cable *that XINHS made for me. Amazing quality (materials and workmanship) for the price.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 4, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> That is _so, so_ _purdy! _I am really liking my new custom *2.5TRRS Headphone Extension Cable *that XINHS made for me. Amazing quality (materials and workmanship) for the price.


That's why I post this kind of comments 


furyossa said:


> You are lucky because you find one pair that suit your needs.
> BTW... Don't stay on this thread for long, because you will probably end up with the *whole* Smabat *lineup  *



And guess who is the "fire starter"?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 4, 2021)

*龙谣音曼 Longyao (Dragon Ballad) Yinman DR09* (32Ω)

I enjoy watching the evolution of earbud design especially cabling, terminations, and accessories offered.

This is Longyao Yinman's newest flagship the DR09


----------



## 0b0d0

> Indeed, the *Trig Rain Thins*, as suggested by *@furyossa*, are of excellent quality.


Bought 10 black and 10 blue ones and oddly, blues died pretty quickly. I recommend only the black ones from this experience.

About the JCally EP09, having a hard time to believe those bought by axhng and  Dany1 are the same 1clearhead and i got. He and i can not disagree more on this one but it looks like that we (may) be talking about the same thing. There should be some drivers variations involved here. 


> In tracks with vocals that hits the right frequencies, they sound a bit honky and congested.


This, i got too. Big time.


> A "pure" V shape in buds I think is impossible to get. of what I have tried, perhaps the 1008 is the closest thing.


Would the RW-9 be looked at as a good or even better illustration of a V-shaped bud?



> Try Ostry kc08t wthout color marks.



golov17, would you please tell me how the soundstage is on this one ? I'm now pretty sure that's quite the big matter to me in general.

On the EBX. (Yes it's a bit hot and fatiguing). Is there here a consensus on the quality of his soundstage? 

Oh and one last thing, not so much have been said on the Rose MariaS, mearly nothing on the second one. Any more input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 4, 2021)

0b0d0 said:


> Oh and one last thing, not so much have been said on the Rose MariaS, mearly nothing on the second one. Any more input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


If you speak of *2020 - Rose Technics Maria II (14Ω; 16mm & 14.8mm)* there have been some discussions but not many... they be "bright" which turns a lot of people off immediately when it comes to earbuds.

Here is a nice brief from *@ClieOS *regarding the Maria II





Regarding *2019 - Rose Technics Maria *(14Ω) here is a nice *measurement* by *@ClieOS* as well as a *review* by *@davidmolliere *


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> *龙谣音曼 Longyao (Dragon Ballad) Yinman DR09* (32Ω)
> 
> I enjoy watching the evolution of earbud design especially cabling, terminations, and accessories offered.
> 
> This is Longyao Yinman's newest flagship the DR09


Seems to be around 300-400 usd and yet again, no mmcx/2pin.....





0b0d0 said:


> could the RW-9 be looked at as a good or even better illustration of a V-shaped bud?


The RW-9 is definitely a V-shaped bud. So if you want to know what a V-shaped bud sounds like, it is indeed a good choice for that.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 4, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> *龙谣音曼 Longyao (Dragon Ballad) Yinman DR09* (32Ω)
> 
> I enjoy watching the evolution of earbud design especially cabling, terminations, and accessories offered.
> 
> This is Longyao Yinman's newest flagship the DR09


The tradition continues. This has become the fashion for each subsequent model to be over $300. Is this a competition between manufacturers who will put a higher price?
This model is 3-4 times more expensive than the previous model, is this only  because modular cable and black wood shell?


----------



## baskingshark

furyossa said:


> The tradition continues. This has become the fashion for each subsequent model to be over $300. Is this a competition between manufacturers who will put a higher price?
> This model is 3-4 times more expensive than the previous model, is this because modular cable and black wood shell?



Haha this set seems to be copying the Fiio Em5 modular cable thingy that allows various adapters for 2.5 mm, 3.5 mm and 4.4 mm type sources. But once again, the fatal flaw is that the proximal part of the cable is non detachable (where it inserts into the earbud housing), and that may be a point of failure down the line. I'm a bit hesitant to get a non detachable TOTL earbud at this pricing, but YMMV.

Calling @RikudouGoku to take one for the team and try this! For the sake of science.


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> Haha this set seems to be copying the Fiio Em5 modular cable thingy that allows various adapters for 2.5 mm, 3.5 mm and 4.4 mm type sources. But once again, the fatal flaw is that the proximal part of the cable is non detachable (where it inserts into the earbud housing), and that may be a point of failure down the line. I'm a bit hesitant to get a non detachable TOTL earbud at this pricing, but YMMV.
> 
> Calling @RikudouGoku to take one for the team and try this! For the sake of science.


No way lol. GS Audio is holding my wallet hostage right now with their crazy lineup....


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> The tradition continues. This has become the fashion for each subsequent model to be over $300. Is this a competition between manufacturers who will put a higher price?
> This model is 3-4 times more expensive than the previous model, is this because modular cable and black wood shell?


They are models that I will have the immense luck not to try 😁


----------



## 0b0d0

> If you speak of *2020 - Rose Technics Maria II (14Ω; 16mm & 14.8mm)* there have been some discussions but not many... they be "bright" which turns a lot of people off immediately when it comes to earbuds.


Thanks, WoodyLuvr. Yes, i remember ClieOS com., and getting all wet and hot thinking about that soundstage... Confirmed i think by an another user i don't remember.
Only the warm midrange comment  got of me from beginning thinking about justifying to myself a 350€ buds buy.
If we're talking about EBX level of brightness, i could live with that. (But not all day long).
I guess that would be my dream stuff : Huuuge soundstage, detailed V shape sound with deep reaching subs (I know, pretty undoable in buds realm), quick bass ans clear mids...



> The RW-9 is definitely a V-shaped bud. So if you want to know what a V-shaped bud sounds like, it is indeed a good choice for that.


Thanks,  RikudouGoku. That was my guess. Nice to be consolidated or corrected in sound comprehension by far more expert... Head-fiers. But i have to admit i already understood i was with you, on this one.  


> I'm a bit hesitant to get a non detachable TOTL earbud at this pricing, but YMMV.


I'm on the same boat, baskingshark, can't figure myself putting a big one on a non-detachable pair. In fact i still have to put a big one on a pair. Biggest one, not buds, was LZ-A4 at 150€. EBX was 77.77€ when i got it.


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> They are models that I will have the immense luck not to try 😁


Why not?  

Google translate very well what you will get for "flagship" buds. This is everything that you need to know if you want to spend $300-$400

_DR08 has been released for two years! The new flagship DR09 is finally released, and the audition activity is in progress_
_
The new earplugs are still balanced and loose as the main line. This time the flat head plug surpasses the previous generation DR08 flagship, with high resolution, wide sound field and accurate positioning. The high frequency is beautiful without thorns, the middle frequency is soft and thick, the low frequency is highly elastic, and the dive is deep. The sound density completely exceeds the previous earphones.

The wire adopts frozen single crystal copper silver-plated wire, single strand 7*7 core.
For the new plug, __please use the white noise and powder noise to cook for more than 10 hours__ to try the effect! ! !_
_Interested friends can contact customer service and join the group to participate in the audition activity!_


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Why not?
> 
> Google translate very well what you will get for "flagship" buds. This is everything that you need to know if you want to spend $300-$400
> 
> ...


Cooked? I prefer fried.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 4, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Cooked? I prefer fried.


I love recipes like this, especially when it comes to quick preparation.
But wait, nowhere is it mentioned at what temperature they should be cooked.
Anyway... i think it will be safe if you use a multi cooker set to slow cooking  

This is how they look after 10h of slow cooking. Here you can see that the cables are very good, there is no change in color


----------



## james444

WoodyLuvr said:


> If you speak of *2020 - Rose Technics Maria II (14Ω; 16mm & 14.8mm)* there have been some discussions but not many... they be "bright" which turns a lot of people off immediately when it comes to earbuds.
> 
> Here is a nice brief from *@ClieOS *regarding the Maria II
> 
> ...



Here are DF-compensated measurements of Rose Maria II, with different levels of seal on my miniDSP Ears coupler. Take them with a grain of salt, because the coupler's artificial ear is only a crude replica of a human ear. I pretty much agree with @ClieOS on sound signature and stage. It's definitely bright, but not overly so. I still might try to damp it a bit, since that spike around 12kHz causes a bit of treble sizzle with some stuff. But all in all, I'm highly impressed. It's indeed like listening to a miniature open back on-ear.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jun 4, 2021)

james444 said:


> Here are DF-compensated measurements of Rose Maria II, with different levels of seal on my miniDSP Ears coupler. Take them with a grain of salt, because the coupler's artificial ear is only a crude replica of a human ear. I pretty much agree with @ClieOS on sound signature and stage. It's definitely bright, but not overly so. I still might try to damp it a bit, since that spike around 12kHz causes a bit of treble sizzle with some stuff. But all in all, I'm highly impressed. It's indeed like listening to a miniature open back on-ear.


How do the raw measurements look? (If you happen to have them.)


----------



## chinmie

furyossa said:


> I love recipes like this, especially when it comes to quick preparation.
> But wait, nowhere is it mentioned at what temperature they should be cooked.
> Anyway... i think it will be safe if you use a multi cooker set to slow cooking
> 
> This is how they look after 10h of slow cooking. Here you can see that the cables are very good, there is no change in color



Sous Vide is all the rage nowadays 

i kinda like that translation of "cooking" better than the usual term of "burn in", as one sounds ready for consumption while the other is sounding destructive.


----------



## Question2 (Jun 4, 2021)

Can anyone recommend a neutral earbud in the $40-60 range? I usually use yuin pk2s.

Edit : Seems like the VE Monk Plus is highly rated. Anyone have experience with these?


----------



## Serge Bernamej (Jun 4, 2021)

Deleted


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 5, 2022)

*K's 凯 (Ksearphone 凯声科技 Kaisheng Technology) Timeline*


----------



## Serge Bernamej

WoodyLuvr said:


> To help with the confusion regarding *Ks (Ksearphone - Kaisheng Technology)* and their quite dizzying array of flagship models and their sometimes rather enigmatic specs.
> 
> *2016 - Ks K500 轮回之天道 The Way of Reincarnation 500Ω *_(Balanced)_​​*2017 - Ks K300 Samsara 300Ω*​*2017 - Ks w/ Final Acoustics Poseidon 215Ω*​​*2018 - K's Temperament Bell-Ti* *32Ω *_(Low Impedance Edition; aka "Titanium Ling"... sometimes incorrectly interpreted as "30Ω" which is meant for Onmyoji)_​*2018 - K's Temperament Bell-Ti 120Ω *_(High Impedance Edition; aka "Titanium Ling"... sometimes incorrectly referred to as being "150Ω")_​​*2020 - Ks Temperament Bell-Blue* *32/33Ω* _(aka "Blue Bell" or "Bell Smurf"... impedance has been goofy, originally introduced as "33Ω" but later spec'd as "32Ω")_​*2020 - Ks Temperament Bell-Ti Onmyoji* *30Ω* _(Aluminum shell instead of Titanium; aka "New Black & White Little Bell")_​*2020 - Ks Temperament Bell-We* *158Ω*_ (Standard & Bass Editions; aka "New White Ling E")_​​*2021 - Ks Temperament Bell-Ti Onmyoji v2021* *30Ω* _(Aluminum Shelled)_​*2021 - Ks Temperament Bell-Ti Plus* *??Ω* _(Aluminum Shelled???; aka "Bell-Ti+"... awaiting to be released)_​


Hahah waw thanks ! Did you read my post before I deleted it ?


----------



## baskingshark

WoodyLuvr said:


> To help with the confusion regarding *Ks (Ksearphone - Kaisheng Technology)* and their quite dizzying array of flagship models and their sometimes rather enigmatic specs.
> 
> *2016 - Ks K500 轮回之天道 The Way of Reincarnation 500Ω *_(Balanced)_​​*2017 - Ks K300 Samsara 300Ω*​*2017 - Ks w/ Final Acoustics Poseidon 215Ω*​​*2018 - K's Temperament Bell-Ti* *32Ω *_(Low Impedance Edition; aka "Titanium Ling"... sometimes incorrectly interpreted as "30Ω" which is meant for Onmyoji)_​*2018 - K's Temperament Bell-Ti 120Ω *_(High Impedance Edition; aka "Titanium Ling"... sometimes incorrectly referred to as being "150Ω")_​​*2020 - Ks Temperament Bell-Blue* *32/33Ω* _(aka "Blue Bell" or "Bell Smurf"... impedance has been goofy, originally introduced as "33Ω" but later spec'd as "32Ω")_​*2020 - Ks Temperament Bell-Ti Onmyoji* *30Ω* _(Aluminum shell instead of Titanium; aka "New Black & White Little Bell")_​*2020 - Ks Temperament Bell-We* *158Ω*_ (Standard & Bass Editions; aka "New White Ling E")_​​*2021 - Ks Temperament Bell-Ti Onmyoji v2021* *30Ω* _(Aluminum Shelled)_​*2021 - Ks Temperament Bell-Ti Plus* *??Ω* _(Aluminum Shelled???; aka "Bell-Ti+"... awaiting to be released)_​



Thanks!

So which in your opinion is the best in terms of price to performance ratio??


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 5, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Thanks!
> 
> So which in your opinion is the best in terms of price to performance ratio??


Most likely the well regarded and revered *Ks K300 Samsara 300Ω *especially after my nightmare right driver/cable failure with the Bell-Ti 120Ω! 🤮

I kinda wish I had bought the slightly cheaper Bell-Blue instead as it had a far more robust and supple cable on it than the fragile thin one that came on my Bell-Ti 120Ω. I was also quite impressed with the sound of the Bell-Blue aka "The Smurfs" except something in the lower treble was slightly "fatiguing" to me though I wouldn't call the Bell Smurf bright, it is still a rather warm earbud. The Smurf has a nice sparkle in the treble. So again I wouldn't categorize it as being bright or even sibilant but rather maybe a bit "excited". I might have adapted to it after a week or so using them; hard to say.

Still haven't listened to either edition of the Bell-We, the Onmyoji v2021, nor the Bell-Ti Plus so can't comment on those yet.


----------



## uneri (Jun 24, 2021)

‎


----------



## james444

assassin10000 said:


> How do the raw measurements look? (If you happen to have them.)



Rose Maria II raw measurements with different levels of seal:


----------



## chavez (Jun 5, 2021)

Anyone tried the Faaeal Iris Ancestor? Just ordered it. For 3 euros they cant be that bad. Using Kbear Stellar atm. Monk+ are on  a break.


----------



## furyossa

Serge Bernamej said:


> Hahah waw thanks ! Did you read my post before I deleted it ?


I read it last night, are you solved the issue with your order?


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> To help with the confusion regarding *Ks (Ksearphone - Kaisheng Technology)* and their quite dizzying array of flagship models and their sometimes rather enigmatic specs.
> 
> *2016 - Ks K500 轮回之天道 The Way of Reincarnation 500Ω *_(Balanced)_​​*2017 - Ks K300 Samsara 300Ω*​*2017 - Ks w/ Final Acoustics 黑铃 Black Ling 195Ω*_ (aka "Black Bell")_​*2017 - Ks w/ Final Acoustics 白铃 White Ling 195Ω*_ (aka "White Bell")_​*2017 - Ks w/ Final Acoustics Poseidon 215Ω*​​*2018 - K's Temperament Bell-Ti* *32Ω *_(Low Impedance; aka "Titanium Ling"... sometimes incorrectly interpreted as "30Ω" which is meant for Onmyoji)_​*2018 - K's Temperament Bell-Ti 120Ω *_(High Impedance; aka "Titanium Ling"... sometimes incorrectly referred to as being "150Ω")_​​*2020 - Ks Temperament Bell-Blue* *32/33Ω* _(aka "The Smurfs" / "Blue Bell" / "Bell Smurf"... impedance has been goofy, originally introduced as "33Ω" but later spec'd as "32Ω")_​*2020 - Ks Temperament Bell-Ti Onmyoji* *30Ω* _(Aluminum shell instead of Titanium; aka "Black & White Little Bell")_​*2020 - Ks Temperament Bell-We* *158Ω*_ (Standard & Bass Editions; aka "New White Ling E")_​​*2021 - Ks Temperament Bell-Ti Onmyoji v2021* *30Ω* _(Aluminum Shell; aka "Black & White Little Bell Reboot")_​*2021 - Ks Temperament Bell-Ti Plus* *??Ω* _(Aluminum Shelled???; aka "Bell-Ti+"... awaiting to be released)_​​_*Ling *_*鈴*_* = Bell*_​


What model is this one then?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002512963218.html


----------



## Serge Bernamej

furyossa said:


> I read it last night, are you solved the issue with your order?


I did friend. It was my mistake because I thought the card inside the box described the ordered earbud but it didn’t. The right description was on the back of the big box. What made me suspicious was that the 120 ohms was so easy to drive.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 11, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> What model is this one then?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002512963218.html


Being an oddball "re-issue" I thought best to not mention it but I have gone ahead and added it to the list 

This is *K's 輪迴絕響版 Reincarnation Absolute Edition 520Ω *and available in three (3) models: blue shell with silver; red shell with black silver; and black shell with gold. There is a rare fourth model available that is a black shell with silver (similar to the blue shell model) and was sent to certain people instead of the blue shell version for unknown reasons.  It is a clever re-issue of their very first flagship *2017 - Ks K500 轮回之天道 The Way of Reincarnation 500Ω*. The name is a play on the Buddhist teachings regarding "The Six Ways/Paths to Reincarnation".


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Being an oddball "re-issue" I thought best to not mention it but I have gone ahead and added it to the list
> 
> This is the *2020 - Ks 輪迴絕響版 Reincarnation 520Ω *(aka "Reincarnation Absolute") and available in three (3) models: blue shell with silver; red shell with black silver; and black shell with gold. There is a rare fourth model available that is a black shell with silver (similar to the blue shell model) and was sent to certain people instead of the blue shell version for unknown reasons.  It is clever re-issue of their very first flagship *2016 - Ks K500 轮回之天道 The Way of Reincarnation 500Ω*. The name is a play on the Buddhist teachings regarding "The Six Ways/Paths to Reincarnation".


Any info on how it sounds like? It is priced a lot higher than the samsara K300.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Serge Bernamej said:


> I did friend. It was my mistake because I thought the card inside the box described the ordered earbud but it didn’t. The right description was on the back of the big box. What made me suspicious was that the 120 ohms was so easy to drive.


They are sensitive! @ 106 dB/mW which means 1 measly volt will drive them to 115 dB SPL!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 11, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> Any info on how it sounds like? It is priced a lot higher than the samsara K300.


Although a slightly different driver than the original I have been told this re-issue is tuned very similar and sound virtually identical to the 2016 model. The K's 300Ω/520Ω Samsara is regarded as being the best of all the MX shelled model series regardless of price.  I can't remember what the 2017 - Ks K500 轮回之天道 The Way of Reincarnation 520Ω sounds like anymore as it has been too long but I do recall back when I listened to it that I had also tried the K's 300Ω/520Ω Samsara and Puresounds PS100-500/600 and preferred them over the K's 500 The Way of Reincarnation.


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Although a slightly different driver than the original I have been told this re-issue is tuned very similar and sound virtually identical to the 2016 model. The K300 Samsara is regarded as being the best of all the MX shelled model series regardless of price.  I can't remember what the 2016 - Ks K500 轮回之天道 The Way of Reincarnation 500Ω sounds like anymore as it has been too long but I do recall back when I listened to it that I had also tried the K300 Samsara and Puresounds PS500-100/PS600-100 and preferred them over the K500 Reincarnation.


Thanks for potentially saving me some cash then.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 5, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Thanks for potentially saving me some cash then.


If you like this ornament sleeve on  K's K500 you can take your K's K300 to a jewelry store for beautification 
Also, the copper tone will look awesome on these, are you agree?


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> If you like this ornament sleeve on  K's K500 you can take your K's K300 to a jewelry store for beautification
> Also, the copper tone will look awesome on these, are you agree?


It sure looks nice, but I wonder if all that extra metal will just make it unnecessarily heavier...


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> It sure looks nice, but I wonder if all that extra metal will just make it unnecessarily heavier...


No it is thin sleeve and also can be imitation jewelry

This combination would be interesting:
Red shell > gold sleeve
Black shell > copper sleeve
Blue shell > silver sleeve
White shell > iron sleeve (dark silver) or maybe white gold for the ladies


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> No it is thin sleeve and also can be imitation jewelry


That sounds good. 

and FIY, my Samsara review should be done today.


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> No it is thin sleeve and also can be imitation jewelry


and of doubtful taste ...


----------



## gordonderp

Sam L said:


> what is your source?


Just my PC, I guess theres an amp and a dac in my motherboard lol. Was just talking about about the popularity of of the more expensive external dacs and amps you see everywhere. I don't even plug it into the back of my motherboard, I plug it into the headphone port in the front of the case


----------



## RikudouGoku

K´s Samsara K300 review is up: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ks-k300-samsara.25197/reviews#review-26005

Rank: S

I actually prefer it slightly over the RW-2000, but both are benchmark buds.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> K´s Samsara K300 review is up: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ks-k300-samsara.25197/reviews#review-26005
> 
> Rank: S
> 
> I actually prefer it slightly over the RW-2000, but both are benchmark buds.


Wow! What an excellent review. That was a pleasant 30 plus minute read coupled with some interesting tracks to listen to. Very well done mate!


----------



## RikudouGoku (Jun 5, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Wow! What an excellent review. That was a pleasant 30 plus minute read coupled with some interesting tracks to listen to. Very well done mate!


Thank you.

If you are familiar with my reviews, you might have noticed that I did NOT use the Ibasso DX160 this time. And well, I am working on my DX160 review (more like an execution) so you will find out the reason why lol. 

EDIT: DX160 execution is up: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ibasso-dx160.23977/reviews#review-26008


----------



## chinmie

RikudouGoku said:


> K´s Samsara K300 review is up: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ks-k300-samsara.25197/reviews#review-26005
> 
> Rank: S
> 
> I actually prefer it slightly over the RW-2000, but both are benchmark buds.



nice ranking. glad that I'm not wrong ranking it high personally too. Your review makes me missed mine, as i sold my unit to a friend because i ended up using it less compared to the Liebesleid, PS100-500, and the Willsounds


----------



## RikudouGoku

chinmie said:


> nice ranking. glad that I'm not wrong ranking it high personally too. Your review makes me missed mine, as i sold my unit to a friend because i ended up using it less compared to the Liebesleid, PS100-500, and the Willsounds


Depending on your library, the liesbesleid (assuming it is similar to the Chaconne) might make it unnecessary for you to get the Samsara K300 though. If your library consists of mostly vocal tracks, then I say you dont need the samsara K300, but if you got hip-hop, edm and stuff like that then yeah you might be missing out.


----------



## chinmie

RikudouGoku said:


> Depending on your library, the liesbesleid (assuming it is similar to the Chaconne) might make it unnecessary for you to get the Samsara K300 though. If your library consists of mostly vocal tracks, then I say you dont need the samsara K300, but if you got hip-hop, edm and stuff like that then yeah you might be missing out.



I'm one of those folks that sometimes would prefer enjoy listening to bass heavy music on the Liebesleid, or the ER4XR  . i can enjoy the texture of the overall music more with those kind of "light sounding" cans.

but if i want an ear massage, i do have my heavy hitters like the Willsound MK1, MK2, Svara L, or my other IEM/headphones


----------



## RikudouGoku

chinmie said:


> I'm one of those folks that sometimes would prefer enjoy listening to bass heavy music on the Liebesleid, or the ER4XR  . i can enjoy the texture of the overall music more with those kind of "light sounding" cans.
> 
> but if i want an ear massage, i do have my heavy hitters like the Willsound MK1, MK2, Svara L, or my other IEM/headphones


Sounds like you dont need to spend more on a sidegrade then.


----------



## povidlo

chavez said:


> Anyone tried the Faaeal Iris Ancestor? Just ordered it. For 3 euros they cant be that bad. Using Kbear Stellar atm. Monk+ are on  a break.


YMMV......

You will not be disappointed unless you hate bass!

So I got my Iris Ancestor yesterday. Ordered with low expectations for $2.50 USD shipped, just wanted to try the new FAAEAL model for price of a beer.

Here we go, this is EARBUD OF THE YEAR for me- it's mind-blowingly good!!! Forget $400 USD flagships......whether earbud vet or novice looking for a taste: stop what you're doing immediately and purchase this inexpensive earbud right now! 

All frequencies are coherent: prominent, thumping bass with excellent sub low extension and mid bass slam that never gets muddy. Warm and musical mids with good timbre, engaging and elevated vocals. Good treble extension but it's not smooth or splashy enough to be highlighted but has enough sparkle to keep things interesting.

Technically impressive: spot on imaging, quick transitions and attack speed, with weighty yet snappy note decay. Soundstage could be wider and deeper but is very tall. Not the last word in airiness and instrument separation either yet there's just enough room.

I like it better than Yincrows (X6, RW-9), 1MOREs (EO320, E1008), Edifiers (H180, H185, H190), NiceHCKs (DIY MX500, ME80), Toneking Viridis, FAAEAL Rosemary, and would keep it if only had to pick one among this list. 
Can't wait to see more impressions for Iris Ancestor from you guys to confirm I am not loosing my mind   .



Spoiler: great synergy between warm Ancestor and neutral L&P W2












Spoiler: unorthodox-looking Ancestor graph from AE


----------



## 1Q84 (Jun 5, 2021)

povidlo said:


> YMMV......
> 
> You will not be disappointed unless you hate bass!
> 
> ...


Hmmm, sounds interesting. Did you get the black or the clear black one? Thanks

Edit: nvm, looks like its the clear black on the photo


----------



## FranQL

@povidlo in a review of AE they posted this graphic


----------



## fonkepala (Jun 5, 2021)

rprodrigues said:


> Have you managed to get rid of the fit issues with the LBBs?
> 
> If so, would you rec them?


Sorry for the super late reply. No, I haven't managed to fix the fit issues with LBBs. They sound great, but the fit issues is proving to be too troublesome for me. Depending on your ear anatomy and other factors, it might not be as big of a problem for you. So, based on that and the asking price, I wouldn't rec them for everyone. It'd be best if you can try them on first before buying, or at least try on an earbud with the same form factor.


----------



## fonkepala

jestercow said:


> FAAEAL Datura Pros came in today, my first non-MX500 shelled earbud. I would rate them at 10/10 for build quality, the cable is lovely, and I love the weight and size of the buds themselves. However, the mids have some weird asymmetry right around the vocal range causing female singers to be louder than male singers, which really messes with my head. Between this hump/scoop and the slightly rolled-off treble and bass I will be returning these. I do not like to mess around with EQ; I tend to switch headphones/buds frequently. Not to mention that there are enough transducers out there that if I don't like the tuning of one I would prefer to find something else that suits me in stock form.
> 
> Is anyone who has heard both the Datura Pros and the K's LB able to do a quick comparison?



The Datura Pro is one of the few earbuds that I put on sale real quickly after just a few days of trying them. I can't stand how they sound, even with Sam's EQ. Might be a personal preference thing.


----------



## Question2

Can anyone recommend a neutral earbud in the $40-60 range? I usually use yuin pk2s.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 5, 2021)

Question2 said:


> Can anyone recommend a neutral earbud in the $40-60 range? I usually use yuin pk2s.


I recommend the LBBS (Little Black Bell S) as neutral earbuds that have enough bass to you.
They are small so you can expect a good fit.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002442599536.html


----------



## Question2 (Jun 5, 2021)

jogawag said:


> I recommend the LBBS (Little Black Bell S) as neutral earbuds that have enough bass to you.
> They are small so you can expect a good fit.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002442599536.html


Thanks for the heads up. I was just looking at a review on the moondrop vx classic which mentioned that the Ksearphone Bell-LB was better and cheaper. However i cant seem to find a detailed review on this...how would you describe these earbuds? and do you think they are better than the yuin pk2s?

Edit : Incidentally, how do you tell that this is the LBBS model? What is the difference between the LBBS and regular models anyway?


----------



## jogawag

Question2 said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I was just looking at a review on the moondrop vx classic which mentioned that the Ksearphone Bell-LB was better and cheaper. However i cant seem to find a detailed review on this...how would you describe these earbuds? and do you think they are better than the yuin pk2s?
> 
> Edit : Incidentally, how do you tell that this is the LBBS model? What is the difference between the LBBS and regular models anyway?


I only had Yuin pk1 and pk3, but I think LBBS is better than these.
The LBBS cable is braided from the junction to the plug.


----------



## Question2

Hmm...i was told that the LBBS uses a different driver as well according to jietu store (a seller). Is that true?


----------



## jogawag

Question2 said:


> Hmm...i was told that the LBBS uses a different driver as well according to jietu store (a seller). Is that true?


That's very possible.


----------



## 1clearhead (Jun 6, 2021)

Dany1 said:


> Just got the JCally EP09 and tbh i'm kinda disappointed with their sound. I don't know if my pair is faulty or what. But these sound so thin. There's almost no bass presence. Which makes them sound really dull and boring. Currently, i'm finding the NiceHck Traceless to sound way better and enjoyable than these. I'm using the Jcally EP09 with Fiio BTR5 and honestly bass is no where to be found. They're the most thin sounding earbud currently in my collection right now and i would not recommend them if these actually sound like these.


Sorry to hear about your pair. Mines with "sponge mounted" sounds great and is all the opposite of what you posted. I did burn mine in for 100 hours, so indeed it could be a QC issue since these are so cheaply priced. Did you tried them with sponge?

PS. Now, someone posted that they're hearing the IRIS Ancestor sounding even better than the X6, RW-9, and even better than the 1MORE E1008???

I'm starting to realize that earbuds are more complicated and subjective after one writes about them than IEM's due to the open earbuds just lingering or sitting between the ears, IMHO.

So, to make things worse, here are some observations that I noticed that might alter the sound with earbuds:
1) Do they sit nicely in the ear?
2) Does wearing a sponge, or not make a difference in their sound?
3) Does spending more or less make a difference to the quality of sound?
4) Does having an earbud according to ones impedance (or ohms) choice makes them better?

I realize that all of the above just makes it more complicated to write a review for them. And, though it could be a QC issue it could still be anything else listed above.

Hope it works out for you...

-Clear


----------



## 1clearhead

povidlo said:


> YMMV......
> 
> You will not be disappointed unless you hate bass!
> 
> ...


I also have the IRIS Ancestor and is really hard to acknowledge these sounding better than the X6, RW-9, or even the 1MORE E1008. But, I do still like the IRIS Ancestor and its overall performance for the price.

-Clear


----------



## FranQL

Question2 said:


> Hmm...i was told that the LBBS uses a different driver as well according to jietu store (a seller). Is that true?



Hello, I am attaching a screenshot where the seller tells me that the difference between the models is only the appearance.


----------



## uneri (Jun 24, 2021)

‎


----------



## FranQL

uneri said:


> Automated reply from K's Taobao store:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bad, if that's the case. In my case, the sound of LBB did not end up convincing me in the bass region, although its tuning seemed correct to me, I missed a bit more joy in the subwoofer, knowing that LBBs use a different controller and for the difference. price (it does not reach 10 €) probably would have chosen that version, but now I will be left with that question. It does not occur to me to do with LBBs having LBB.


----------



## fonkepala

Question2 said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I was just looking at a review on the moondrop vx classic which mentioned that the Ksearphone Bell-LB was better and cheaper. However i cant seem to find a detailed review on this...how would you describe these earbuds? and do you think they are better than the yuin pk2s?
> 
> Edit : Incidentally, how do you tell that this is the LBBS model? What is the difference between the LBBS and regular models anyway?



See my post #54692 regarding fit with the LBBs.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 6, 2021)

FranQL said:


> Bad, if that's the case. In my case, the sound of LBB did not end up convincing me in the bass region, although its tuning seemed correct to me, I missed a bit more joy in the subwoofer, knowing that LBBs use a different controller and for the difference. price (it does not reach 10 €) probably would have chosen that version, but now I will be left with that question. It does not occur to me to do with LBBs having LBB.


The review on the following page describes LBBS
"The sound architecture sounds like Onmyoji." and "may have 70% of the power of the Onmyoji". .
https://post.smzdm.com/p/a830k83l/architecture


----------



## RikudouGoku

Went and tried the snow lotus 2.5 vs the iris CE on my Asgard 3. And the Iris is actually tuned better lol. They got similar tech but the Snow lotus has a lot more mid-bass bloat that also makes it warmer. Another instance of paying more but getting less.   


I will most likely go through my entire bud collection sometime and just give everything an overhaul using the Asgard 3 as the source.


----------



## povidlo

1clearhead said:


> I also have the IRIS Ancestor and is really hard to acknowledge these sounding better than the X6, RW-9, or even the 1MORE E1008. But, I do still like the IRIS Ancestor and its overall performance for the price.
> 
> -Clear


Thanks for the feedback, bro.

If you recall, I was the one to recently flag E1008 availability so I'll take some partial credit for you enjoying yours   .

I had pretty high expectations for E1008 myself due to driver structure but it has been disappointing so far. I've had 20-25 hours on it so I still expect it to improve somewhat (as my dual driver Rose Maria has improved with burn-in). Bass is more mid/upper oriented and it doesn't reach sub low enough without EQ. Mids are a mixed bad, there is excellent detail-retrieval but sound a bit tubey/hollow. Treble is quite good and has yummy smoothness to it. Soundstage is quite large. What disturbs me most is erratic imaging that makes multi-instrument, multi-beat tracks nauseating. So while E1008 is technically superior to Ancestor in terms of bigger soundstage and more detail, it’s just not there timbre-wise, Ancestor is much more coherent and musical with its thumping bass and warm mids.

I personally find Yincrows a bit overrated, but they’re good earbuds. They both sound somewhat dull and dark compared to Ancestor which is more engaging and fun.

It’s totally cool if you think Ancestor is nothing special, it is your opinion and I have mine. Just like you really like EP09, although there have been bad reviews from other members, I’m OK if that’s the case with Ancestor as well. What’s most important is what we enjoy personally and then to share with others to help them in their journey. We will never be all aligned as humans our personal experiences are very different including music, sources, etc. Let’s keep enjoying earbuds and sharing our opinions .


----------



## RikudouGoku

povidlo said:


> Thanks for the feedback, bro.
> 
> If you recall, I was the one to recently flag E1008 availability so I'll take some partial credit for you enjoying yours   .
> 
> ...


IMO, if you arent a basshead then I wouldnt be that surprised if someone prefered the Iris ancestor (assuming it has better tech/resolution than the CE version I got) to the X6.


----------



## povidlo

RikudouGoku said:


> IMO, if you arent a basshead then I wouldnt be that surprised if someone prefered the Iris ancestor (assuming it has better tech/resolution than the CE version I got) to the X6.


A bit of a basshead myself. Haven't heard CE but I think Ancestor has better bass presentation than X6- in terms of quantity and resolution.


----------



## RikudouGoku

povidlo said:


> A bit of a basshead myself. Haven't heard CE but I think Ancestor has better bass presentation than X6- in terms of quantity and resolution.


Does it have more bass quantity than the X6? If so, that is VERY different from the CE.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Well, after going through my entire bud collection. Here are the update ranks:

Moondrop Nameless: C+ to B-

NiceHCK B40: B- to B

NiceHCK Traceless: B+ to B

FAAEAL Snow lotus 2.5mm: A- to B+

Toneking Dendroaspis Virids: S- to A+



Biggest discovery to me though. Is the the Faaeal Iris CE is very similar to the NiceHCK ME80. So if you wanted to get the ME80 but cant since it is discontinued now, you can try the Iris CE instead. The ME80 is still better in technicalities, but tonality wise they are very similar and the Iris CE is the better value since it is around 3x cheaper.


----------



## FranQL (Jun 6, 2021)

Buds that go from glory to absolute misery.

I just think that you have to give them enough listening time to have a more fair / objective opinion.

And above all, which is the best SQ? well, I have my preferences and someone else will have others .... it is normal that expectations are high and subsequent disappointment is too.


----------



## RikudouGoku

FranQL said:


> Buds that go from glory to absolute misery.
> 
> I just think that you have to give them enough listening time to have a more fair / objective opinion.
> 
> And above all, which is the best SQ? well, I have my preferences and someone else will have others .... it is normal that expectations are high and subsequent disappointment is too.


This is a subjective hobby, there is no objective opinion here.


----------



## FranQL

RikudouGoku said:


> This is a subjective hobby, there is no objective opinion here.



Within the subjective, listening to a bud for a few hours (upon receipt) I doubt that it is enough to make a value judgment in one way or another. At least in my humble opinion, you just have to look at the totally opposite opinions these days. I only refer to the sound, not to other aspects.


----------



## RikudouGoku

FranQL said:


> Within the subjective, listening to a bud for a few hours (upon receipt) I doubt that it is enough to make a value judgment in one way or another. At least in my humble opinion, you just have to look at the totally opposite opinions these days. I only refer to the sound, not to other aspects.


Yes, you do need to spend time on stuff that I do agree on. But in case you are referring to my post above, I have had all of these buds for months now, I just revisited them on a different source.


----------



## FranQL

RikudouGoku said:


> Yes, you do need to spend time on stuff that I do agree on. But in case you are referring to my post above, I have had all of these buds for months now, I just revisited them on a different source.


no, no, it is not related to the list, sorry if I have not explained myself well.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Today I was able to listen to *FiiO EM5* and I will say this is the best or some of the best earbuds I have ever heard. I listened with donuts foams, source DTR1.


Spoiler















The shells is light, fits well in the ear, the sound is technical, not bright, comfortable.
The bass is probably one of the best that I have ever heard in the earbuds, a perfect combination of sub and mid-bass. Bass with the correct timbre (no slowness), deep, massive, technical with good resolution and control.
The middle is not dry, weighty, lively, the detail is well balanced. The scene is airy, voluminous with good separation, showing rather warm colors.
The high frequencies do not reach the top level a little, but they are very comfortable and not suppressed, the better the source and the recording, the better it is reproduced, of course, I would like sparkling like in Astrotec Lyra Nature or Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis, but this is probably impossible to implement in earbuds that would have remained such gorgeous low frequencies.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

*@Alex.Grimm *me like your Dethonray DTR1 First Edition!


----------



## vygas (Jun 6, 2021)

povidlo said:


> A bit of a basshead myself. Haven't heard CE but I think Ancestor has better bass presentation than X6- in terms of quantity and resolution.


I'd personally agree on the part where the resolution of the Ancestor (at least bass wise) is a lot better than the Vido (comparing with the Vido since it's the same driver as the X6), though the Vido has more bass quantity than the Ancestor. Could just be a lack of burn-in but they haven't changed much from hour 0 to hour 25.

EDIT : I only just saw the graph posted earlier and I can say that my unit doesn't sound anywhere near what it shows, not the first time I got a much flatter sounding bud from FAAEAL than usual but I'm definitely gonna look into buying another pair.


----------



## n00b

uh oh. thanks for the review. your description of the bass is especially compelling considering youve tried the rw-2000, rw-1000 bass, KBWE bass and st10s/s/g. i never looked at the fiio stuff but i just got a cable from them for my ebx21s and i love it, so i think i would love the modular termination on the em5 too. maybe would be a nice complement to the ebx21s 👀


----------



## 1clearhead

povidlo said:


> Thanks for the feedback, bro.
> 
> If you recall, I was the one to recently flag E1008 availability so I'll take some partial credit for you enjoying yours   .
> 
> ...


I never said the Ancestor is nothing special for they are still special to me, and yes, I remember wasting no time on buying the E1008.  
I was just merely using your post to make a point on how subjective this hobby is in reference to someone else that had a bad experience with their earbuds.
 Sorry, you didn't catch that.

Hopefully by next weekend, I'll revisit all my earbuds and listen to them more thoroughly and reminiscent to what I have from the beginning. 
As bud pals, let us enjoy all our buds! 

-Clear


----------



## RikudouGoku

My issue with the faaeal buds is that...well.... there are like 5 versions of each models..it gets quite confusing and they are priced around the same as well.

Also because their bud cables seems to be pretty bad in general. It is quite ironic since they got the best 3rd party cable for value out there (cable A3, AKA the hibiscus).


----------



## Question2

fonkepala said:


> See my post #54692 regarding fit with the LBBs.


Is it not a standard form factor? Are they bigger than the yuin pk2s or something?


----------



## vygas

RikudouGoku said:


> My issue with the faaeal buds is that...well.... there are like 5 versions of each models..it gets quite confusing and they are priced around the same as well.
> 
> Also because their bud cables seems to be pretty bad in general. It is quite ironic since they got the best 3rd party cable for value out there (cable A3, AKA the hibiscus).


The cable they use on the Ancestor are actually pretty damn good, basically the same cable as my CAL! (+ I feel as if their hybrid braided cables aren't actually that bad).


----------



## RikudouGoku

vygas said:


> The cable they use on the Ancestor are actually pretty damn good, basically the same cable as my CAL! (+ I feel as if their hybrid braided cables aren't actually that bad).


Which one has that "hybrid braided" cable?
Do you mean the one on the iris 2.0?




Looks like a KZ stock cable to me...


The Snow lotus 2.5mm



Iris CE




They both feels like rubber and has a ton of friction. The lotus feels especially bad...


----------



## chavez

The cable on Ancestor looks like run of the mill black cable. I mean you.cant get any better for 3$  😂.


----------



## RikudouGoku

chavez said:


> The cable on Ancestor looks like run of the mill black cable. I mean you.cant get any better for 3$  😂.


yeah, it is dirt cheap alright. But the snow lotus 2.5mm is 25 usd and that one has a garbage cable, that even the iris CE has a better one at 3x cheaper.


----------



## Question2

Does anyone happen to know if the NiceHCK PK1 and MX500 use the same drivers?


----------



## chavez (Jun 6, 2021)

How is Iris CE called on ali? There are like 7 iris versions available.


----------



## RikudouGoku

chavez said:


> How is Iris CE called on ali? There are like 7 iris versions avilable.


Here it is: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33041471307.html

Technically called the "FAAEAL Iris Transparent Shell Commemorative Edition".


----------



## jogawag

Question2 said:


> Does anyone happen to know if the NiceHCK PK1 and MX500 use the same drivers?


The PK1 uses a 14.8mm driver and the MX500 uses a 15.4mm driver, right?


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> The PK1 uses a 14.8mm driver and the MX500 uses a 15.4mm driver, right?


Yup that's right, but Nicehck decide to use something in between for the size


----------



## Question2

jogawag said:


> The PK1 uses a 14.8mm driver and the MX500 uses a 15.4mm driver, right?


Hmm...I wonder how differently they sound then. Anyone happen to have tried the NiceHCK PK1?


----------



## furyossa (Jun 6, 2021)

Question2 said:


> Hmm...I wonder how differently they sound then. Anyone happen to have tried the NiceHCK PK1?


It's NiceHCK B40 and not NiceHCK PK1. I will rather go with K's  Bell-LB or Smabat M2Pro or M0 and play with different drivers.
Bat that just me


----------



## jogawag (Jun 6, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Yup that's right, but Nicehck decide to use something in between for the size


That's the B40, isn't it?



Question2 said:


> Hmm...I wonder how differently they sound then. Anyone happen to have tried the NiceHCK PK1?


I used to have a NiceHCK PK1, but it sounded mainly mid-treble.


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> That's the B40, isn't it?


Yes, B40. I never saw NiceHCK PK1. Does Pk1 refer to the name or type of shell?


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Yes, B40. I never saw NiceHCK PK1. Does Pk1 refer to the name or type of shell?


It's the model. It is in the same listing as their mx500 bud...


----------



## jogawag

furyossa said:


> Yes, B40. I never saw NiceHCK PK1. Does Pk1 refer to the name or type of shell?


I think he is referring to the last two colour options on the following page.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32823569005.html


----------



## Question2

furyossa said:


> It's NiceHCK B40 and not NiceHCK PK1. I will rather go with K's  Bell-LB or Smabat M2Pro or M0 and play with different drivers.
> Bat that just me



Hmm...its not called the b40 here : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...exp_id=16439aec-52cf-42c9-8cc0-f67772491ffa-0

(Listing with MX500 and PK1, the PK1 is slightly more expensive)

I did a search for nicehck b40 and i cant find any listings for it. I wonder if they might have just renamed the b40 to the pk1? Or discontinued the b40?


----------



## Question2

jogawag said:


> That's the B40, isn't it?
> 
> 
> I used to have a NiceHCK PK1, but it sounded mainly mid-treble.



Hmm...how would you say the PK1 compares to the Bell-LB?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Question2 said:


> Hmm...its not called the b40 here : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...exp_id=16439aec-52cf-42c9-8cc0-f67772491ffa-0
> 
> (Listing with MX500 and PK1, the PK1 is slightly more expensive)
> 
> I did a search for nicehck b40 and i cant find any listings for it. I wonder if they might have just renamed the b40 to the pk1? Or discontinued the b40?


It does look like the B40 is discontinued as it isn't listed on their store anymore. But the B40 and the PK1 are definitely 2 separate model.


----------



## Question2

RikudouGoku said:


> It does look like the B40 is discontinued as it isn't listed on their store anymore. But the B40 and the PK1 are definitely 2 separate model.


Ah, I think they are calling the b40 "Traceless" now : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> It's the model. It is in the same listing as their mx500 bud...





jogawag said:


> I think he is referring to the last two colour options on the following page.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32823569005.html


This is too sketchy. I will rather call it NiceHCK No-Name. Also, both drivers has same spec. Hmmm...


----------



## RikudouGoku

Question2 said:


> Ah, I think they are calling the b40 "Traceless" now : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


That's just the good old aliexpress trick of putting as many keywords as they can in a title to get it to pop up more during search.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 6, 2021)

Question2 said:


> Hmm...how would you say the PK1 compares to the Bell-LB?


I don't have the Bell-LB.
If you are talking about The LBBS, it sounds better than NiceHCK PK1, more than the price difference.


----------



## Question2

jogawag said:


> I don't have the Bell-LB.
> If you are talking about The LBBS, it sounds better than NiceHCK PK1, more than the price difference. The LBBS sounds better than the NiceHCK PK1.


Sorry, meant the LBBS.

Gah, this is all making it quite hard to decide...

Incidentally, what is the normal warranty period for these earphones? I thought the standard would be a year, but I was told by Jietu Store that the LBBS only has a month's warranty. Is that normal?


----------



## jogawag (Jun 6, 2021)

furyossa said:


> This is too sketchy. I will rather call it NiceHCK No-Name. Also, both drivers has same spec. Hmmm...


The last 2 earbuds have PK shell, so they use 14.8mm driver. The specification is ambiguous.


----------



## vygas

RikudouGoku said:


> Which one has that "hybrid braided" cable?
> Do you mean the one on the iris 2.0?
> 
> Looks like a KZ stock cable to me...
> ...


Hybrid braided as in ACTUALLY braided cables covered with nylon fabric, not twisted cables.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 6, 2021)

Question2 said:


> Sorry, meant the LBBS.
> 
> Gah, this is all making it quite hard to decide...
> 
> Incidentally, what is the normal warranty period for these earphones? I thought the standard would be a year, but I was told by Jietu Store that the LBBS only has a month's warranty. Is that normal?


What do you think? I suppose the warranty period varies from shop to shop.
NiceHCK replaced it even after more than a year if the problem is caused by the product.
You can search for "Ksearphone bell" and ask the shops that sell LBBS.


----------



## baskingshark

Question2 said:


> Sorry, meant the LBBS.
> 
> Gah, this is all making it quite hard to decide...
> 
> Incidentally, what is the normal warranty period for these earphones? I thought the standard would be a year, but I was told by Jietu Store that the LBBS only has a month's warranty. Is that normal?



I wouldn't count on warranty for Aliexpress shops, I just assume that once stuff is bought from Aliexpress, you are on your own. Don't be expecting good CS levels.

Firstly, the seller will demand video or photo evidence if something goes defective. Some things can be easily shown, but certain stuff like driver imbalance or out of phase wiring etc or intermittent sound cut out can't be shown easily, unless perhaps you have some measuring rigs. Some sellers just don't respond even, once you are out of the buyer protection window.

Secondly, if the seller approves the warranty, sending stuff back to China will probably cost the same as a budget earbud. Not to mention stuff can get lost. And anyways, by the time the seller sends a replacement set over, a new hypetrain flavour of the week would have probably already reached your mailbox haha.


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> I wouldn't count on warranty for Aliexpress shops, I just assume that once stuff is bought from Aliexpress, you are on your own. Don't be expecting good CS levels.
> 
> Firstly, the seller will demand video or photo evidence if something goes defective. Some things can be easily shown, but certain stuff like driver imbalance or out of phase wiring etc or intermittent sound cut out can't be shown easily, unless perhaps you have some measuring rigs. Some sellers just don't respond even, once you are out of the buyer protection window.
> 
> Secondly, if the seller approves the warranty, sending stuff back to China will probably cost the same as a budget earbud. Not to mention stuff can get lost. And anyways, by the time the seller sends a replacement set over, a new hypetrain flavour of the week would have probably already reached your mailbox haha.


I honestly would not dare to ask question no. 3 after this very nicely explained post


----------



## Question2 (Jun 6, 2021)

Incidentally, how do you tell the difference between the LBBS and Bell-LB models? They look the same in all the pictures i can find.

Edit : Seems like the LBBS has a different cable?


----------



## uneri (Jun 24, 2021)

‎


----------



## Question2 (Jun 6, 2021)

At this point i think i will get the LBBS due to it being on sale : https://shopee.sg/Ksearphone-Bell-LB-3.5mm-Earbud-DJ-Bass-HIFI-Metal-Earphone-15mm-Dynamic-Driver-Unit-K's-Earphone-Earbud-Headset-Flat-Earplugs-i.306787631.10808206152

The currency on that site is in SGD which works out to $34 USD, which is much lower than the price on aliexpress. I can always get the NiceHCK MX500 if it doesnt work out.

Edit : Huh thats weird, the seller seems to have blocked me so i cant actually buy it...wonder if they hit the wrong button. Ended up getting it from another seller, although that seller offered less warranty.


----------



## uneri (Jun 24, 2021)

‎


----------



## Question2

uneri said:


> If you're buying from Shopee, you can get Fengru EMX500 from there as well.
> Not sure if there's any real difference from NiceHCK's version, but I have Fengru's one and it's excellent value for money plus cheaper too.



I noticed quite a few brands for chinese MX500s...are these even real brands? I know that for chinese watches, there are a lot of fake brands where they just order a whole batch of one OEM watch and stick their own brand/logo on it but its basically identical to the others with the same design. Wonder if thats whats happening with the MX500s, where they are just the same OEM earbud under different "brands"....


----------



## 40760

Question2 said:


> I noticed quite a few brands for chinese MX500s...are these even real brands? I know that for chinese watches, there are a lot of fake brands where they just order a whole batch of one OEM watch and stick their own brand/logo on it but its basically identical to the others with the same design. Wonder if thats whats happening with the MX500s, where they are just the same OEM earbud under different "brands"....



The only original MX500 are Sennheiser's. Pretty much everything else on the market is a copy.


----------



## Question2

palestofwhite said:


> The only original MX500 are Sennheiser's. Pretty much everything else on the market is a copy.


Sure, but i thought the NiceHCK MX500 was a totally different model? It looks like they use the same shells but everyone here seems to rave about how good the sound on the NiceHCK MX500 is while the Sennheiser MX500s are rated as merely average on most sites.


----------



## 40760

Question2 said:


> Sure, but i thought the NiceHCK MX500 was a totally different model? It looks like they use the same shells but everyone here seems to rave about how good the sound on the NiceHCK MX500 is while the Sennheiser MX500s are rated as merely average on most sites.



Besides sharing the same shell type, the drivers or wires used are usually different. Say the driver and cables of the Monk Plus is definitely different from those of Yincrow X6, but the shell is MX500 type. They sound different.

What the different brands meant when they use the MX500 moniker is usually to just indicate the shell type category the buds fall under, for the lack of a better name (maybe lazy). For example, there is also the PK shell category used by Yuin, but Shozy also uses them. Some boutique brands simply name them PK too if they adopt those shells.


----------



## Question2 (Jun 7, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> Besides sharing the same shell type, the drivers or wires used are usually different. Say the driver and cables of the Monk Plus is definitely different from those of Yincrow X6, but the shell is MX500 type. They sound different.
> 
> What the different brands meant when they use the MX500 moniker is usually to just indicate the shell type category the buds fall under, for the lack of a better name (maybe lazy). For example, there is also the PK shell category used by Yuin, but Shozy also uses them. Some boutique brands simply name them PK too if they adopt those shells.


Yea, thats what I thought, that the drivers and such are different. All the different MX500s gets confusing quickly though. Would make it easier if they gave them different names.

I thought you were saying that all the other MX500s were just copies of the sennheiser MX500s (including the internals, not just the shells)


----------



## povidlo

RikudouGoku said:


> Does it have more bass quantity than the X6? If so, that is VERY different from the CE.


There are few models of Iris , I imagine they should sound somewhat different. The only other FAAEAL I've heard is Rosemary and I think it also has more bass quantity than X6. Also ordered Datura X recently, which is supposed to be bassier predecessor to controversial Datura Pro.  


vygas said:


> I'd personally agree on the part where the resolution of the Ancestor (at least bass wise) is a lot better than the Vido (comparing with the Vido since it's the same driver as the X6), though the Vido has more bass quantity than the Ancestor. Could just be a lack of burn-in but they haven't changed much from hour 0 to hour 25.
> 
> EDIT : I only just saw the graph posted earlier and I can say that my unit doesn't sound anywhere near what it shows, not the first time I got a much flatter sounding bud from FAAEAL than usual but I'm definitely gonna look into buying another pair.


I agree that there might be some differences within same model as these cheap earbuds likely go through very little-to-no QC, driver matching etc. I ordered another two Ancestors to see if they sound as good.


1clearhead said:


> I never said the Ancestor is nothing special for they are still special to me, and yes, I remember wasting no time on buying the E1008.
> I was just merely using your post to make a point on how subjective this hobby is in reference to someone else that had a bad experience with their earbuds.
> Sorry, you didn't catch that.
> 
> ...


Sorry that I misunderstood the point of your post. Thanks for for clarifying. Looking forward to your follow-up impressions.


----------



## fonkepala

palestofwhite said:


> I have the Monk Go incoming to compare with the Monk Plus.



Same. My most recent earbuds purchase. Thought I'm done buying, guess I was wrong. Let us know what you think.


----------



## fonkepala

Question2 said:


> Is it not a standard form factor? Are they bigger than the yuin pk2s or something?



Have you actually seen how the LBBs looks like? They are definitely not a standard form factor. mx500 is standard, pk2 is standard. not the LBBs.


----------



## Question2 (Jun 7, 2021)

fonkepala said:


> Have you actually seen how the LBBs looks like? They are definitely not a standard form factor. mx500 is standard, pk2 is standard. not the LBBs.



Ive seen pictures of course but i'm not quite sure how it differs. It looks like the rear part is thicker than normal at least, but I don't know if that will affect things. I can only hope that it will fit me fine when it arrives.

Someone did tell me that the LBBS are small, but they certaintly dont look small at least...do you find them smaller or larger than normal?


----------



## Question2

jogawag said:


> The PK1 uses a 14.8mm driver and the MX500 uses a 15.4mm driver, right?



I just got a reply from the NiceHCK store on aliexpress and they claim that the PK1 and MX500 have the same driver.


----------



## jogawag

Question2 said:


> I just got a reply from the NiceHCK store on aliexpress and they claim that the PK1 and MX500 have the same driver.


Then I was wrong. I'm sorry.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 9, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> I wouldn't count on warranty for Aliexpress shops, I just assume that once stuff is bought from Aliexpress, you are on your own. Don't be expecting good CS levels.
> 
> Firstly, the seller will demand video or photo evidence if something goes defective. Some things can be easily shown, but certain stuff like driver imbalance or out of phase wiring etc or intermittent sound cut out can't be shown easily, unless perhaps you have some measuring rigs. Some sellers just don't respond even, once you are out of the buyer protection window.
> 
> Secondly, if the seller approves the warranty, sending stuff back to China will probably cost the same as a budget earbud. Not to mention stuff can get lost. And anyways, by the time the seller sends a replacement set over, a new hypetrain flavour of the week would have probably already reached your mailbox haha.


This is a true story:

I bought the Onmyoji with 3.5mm plug from some store. After a long wait, those earbuds finally arrived.

When I inserted the earbuds jack into the plug with high expectations, I felt something strange.
The left side part of plug is not making good contact...[Cold sweat]
There is no sound coming from the left side depending on how the plug is inserted.
Even If change the jack this symptom happens frequently,
The sound from the left side even increases and decreases whenever I rotate the plug,

I was very quite surprised that such a basic problem was overlooked in this expensive onmyoji which price is over 350USD.

I ended up explaining the situation to the seller of the store and required a replacement.

Then the seller saied d that "please ship back to us repalce new for you.".

So I sent the earbuds and replied that "I sent back my faulty Onmyoji with traking number by post today and please send me a new Onmyoji and 30 leather clips for earbuds as postal fee (USD10) now!"

Then the seller salied that "we will arrange fast repalce after receive your return parcel. and we will send 3pcs Cable Winder (1 pcs is USD8!) with new earphone. we are honest seller and we promise : replace new after return the parcel",

So I replied that "I am honest buyer, so please send to me new onmyoji ASAP!"

Then the seller never relented and saying that "about the earphone, we will ship after receive it. we need to detect the problems, and hope you can understand, thank you. ".

This ugly and terrible story of dispute ended...

Edit: It will probably be about a month before I can receive my new Onmyoji.


----------



## Question2

jogawag said:


> This is a true story:
> 
> I bought the Onmyoji with 3.5mm plug from some store. After a long wait, those earbuds finally arrived.
> 
> ...


So they never sent you a replacement at all? Wow...im guessing the website refused to do anything? Were you able to do a charge back on your card or something?

That really sucks....


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

Not sure if this is really the place for this but putting it on here and can be directed if there is another place. Venturing into the TWS earbud arena as I am doing a lot of hiking, beach, and camping etc this summer and wires just are not really great for that kinda thing. My buds+ have been amazing but I want some earbuds so got the Samsung Galaxy Live and not feeling them. Loads of midbass and when going to Treble eq does well for my taste but just not exactly what I imagined them to be. So been looking and found this guy doings some cool back to backs. 



From what I can tell Mii Air 2 and Soundpeat TrueAir 2 are solid pics. Mii Air 2 is $15 on AliExpress now. I ordered both sets.  Soundpeats should be here thursday so will update, from the sound on this video seems to be a more V shape with solid bass, bit scooped mids, and good treble. My main issue with Airpods is the sharp cut off after 100hz and that 15db pinna boost at 2.7khz... just makes it sound kinda nasal and vocal centric. I'd take a good tuned V over that. Mii Air 2 seems balanced with bass boost, so an L? but who knows only tell so much on those kinds of tests. 

Wish some 15.6mm drivers would could out...


----------



## povidlo

Hakugei makes (expensive) cables and just came out with their version of MX500 aka MX500 Rick James 

I find them quite appealing although built with what appears to be a paracord cable which might be too heavy for earbuds/IEMs from my experience.

Could someone please comment on the difference/meaning of 2H, 3H, 5H versions of the original MX500 driver?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002722779433.html


----------



## RikudouGoku

povidlo said:


> Hakugei makes (expensive) cables and just came out with their version of MX500 aka MX500 Rick James
> 
> I find them quite appealing although built with what appears to be a paracord cable which might be too heavy for earbuds/IEMs from my experience.
> 
> ...


Interesting... At least it looks like cable durability isn't an issue here.


----------



## vygas

povidlo said:


> Hakugei makes (expensive) cables and just came out with their version of MX500 aka MX500 Rick James
> 
> I find them quite appealing although built with what appears to be a paracord cable which might be too heavy for earbuds/IEMs from my experience.
> 
> ...


2H, 3H and 5H are different drivers made by Foster, they were used in Sennheiser's, Sharp's and certain other MX500 shelled earbuds. They're all fairly warm and smooth, probably have a similar sound signature to the OP139 which also uses a Foster driver but one of the big solder type.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Btw, do you guys know if there are any buds made out of resin instead of plastic?


----------



## 40760

jogawag said:


> This is a true story:
> 
> I bought the Onmyoji with 3.5mm plug from some store. After a long wait, those earbuds finally arrived.
> 
> ...



Not long ago, another member reported that his/hers arrived with a free spinning plug barrel. I think it is quite disheartening if this is their QC standard for even flagship models. 

My previous pair of LBBS arrived with a quite badly scratched up metal driver screen. I'm thinking hard if I should get another pair even if I missed the sound.


----------



## chinmie

headenvelopedinsound said:


> Not sure if this is really the place for this but putting it on here and can be directed if there is another place. Venturing into the TWS earbud arena as I am doing a lot of hiking, beach, and camping etc this summer and wires just are not really great for that kinda thing. My buds+ have been amazing but I want some earbuds so got the Samsung Galaxy Live and not feeling them. Loads of midbass and when going to Treble eq does well for my taste but just not exactly what I imagined them to be. So been looking and found this guy doings some cool back to backs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




from some of the earbuds TWS that I've tried:

Sabbat X12 is a solid performer, especially if you like vocals. not too deep reaching on the subbass though, even with foams. 
Tronsmart Onyx Ace sounds neutral and balanced across the board, subbass is there, and you can put foams to adjust the fitting and sound to your liking.
Soundpeats Trueair2 sounds good, more similar to IEM in presentation than the others. the unit i tried has a bit of grainy treble, but it was a brand new out of the box unit, and i only listened to it for a short while, so might be a bit different after more playtime
Vivo TWS Neo. without foams, it sounds thin, but with foams, i really like it. do mind that on my unit i have to mod the case to be able to charge with foams attached (I've read other user that doesn't need to do mods though). also with non-Vivo phones, you don't have access to EQ and aptx. 
Sabbat Vooplay: i also really like it, but with donut foams on it. subbass can reach deep. one of my most used TWS. 
Samsung Buds Live: nice wide sound, good for movies, but i don't prefer it for music, because of the stereo spread is too wide for my taste, and also the mids arr a bit thin. touch control is finicky and ANC is a little useless, so i turn them off. 
TRN BT20S Pro: put your preferred earbuds with it, and you'll have a solid TWS solution with great battery life. i use it with my MMCX modded Edifier H185


----------



## Serge Bernamej

The Bell-ti is certainly ultra comfortable, but not more than the Zen LL, and I don’t prefer it’s sound neither.
In the more or less same family of sound as the Bell-Ti the Yincrow 2000 has a fuller and bigger sound.
In the end I could not really love the tiny sound of the Bell-ti which I find too bright (and yes I have the 120 ohm verison).
 Double foaming the Bell-ti is useless as it achieves nothing positive.


----------



## 40760

Serge Bernamej said:


> The Bell-ti is certainly ultra comfortable, but not more than the Zen LL, and I don’t prefer it’s sound neither.
> In the more or less same family of sound as the Bell-Ti the Yincrow 2000 has a fuller and bigger sound.
> In the end I could not really love the tiny sound of the Bell-ti which I find too bright (and yes I have the 120 ohm verison).
> Double foaming the Bell-ti is useless as it achieves nothing positive.



I think I will get a pair of Zen LL next. From memory, I liked its sound and find it very comfortable to wear. That was the standard model with the red cables, but I'm pretty sure the SLQ version will be a better cable upgrade.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

palestofwhite said:


> I think I will get a pair of Zen LL next. From memory, I liked its sound and find it very comfortable to wear. That was the standard model with the red cables, but I'm pretty sure the SLQ version will be a better cable upgrade.


From all the earbuds I have, if I had to only keep one, regardless of price, it would be the Zen LL (I only know the special edition though).


----------



## assassin10000 (Jun 7, 2021)

Question2 said:


> Is it not a standard form factor? Are they bigger than the yuin pk2s or something?





Question2 said:


> Ive seen pictures of course but i'm not quite sure how it differs. It looks like the rear part is thicker than normal at least, but I don't know if that will affect things. I can only hope that it will fit me fine when it arrives.
> 
> Someone did tell me that the LBBS are small, but they certaintly dont look small at least...do you find them smaller or larger than normal?



The LB/LBBS are smaller diameter like the Yuin PK shells (16.1-16.3mm O.D.).

If you prefer smaller diameter earbuds, the K's bell series are the most comfortable of all earbuds shapes I've tried.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 8, 2021)

assassin10000 said:


> The LB/LBBS are smaller diameter like the Yuin PK shells (16.1-16.3mm O.D.).
> 
> If you prefer smaller diameter earbuds, the K's bell series are the most comfortable of all earbuds shapes I've tried.


*Bell Type III Shell Type*

Indeed the Ks Bell shell is super duper comfortable. Without a doubt the most comfortable earbud I have ever worn is the Ks Bell-Ti 120Ω.

That said there is apparently a serious and concerning QC issue with flagship Bell models in regards to the cabling at the driver connection point and this appears to be due to a very narrow stem port design. The lower Bell models have an ever-so-slightly different port design and thus a shorter and wider diameter stem which doesn't restrict cable gauge nor cable pullout "knotting". For an excellent example break down of Ks' Bell shells please see *@furyossa* post *here*


----------



## Ronion

I just got the first cash of cheapish buds in the mail.  The Yincrow X6 arrived (bass is beautiful for buds), the Cat Ear Mimi, and the Fengru TC200.  Early impression, after a few beers, would give a nod to the tc200 overall, but I’d prefer to give it a lot more time.  I have less than 20 minutes on each And I wouldn’t consider any of them “bad” really.  The TC200 are definitely in the early lead and I’ll try not to let that sway my opinion in the long run.  I don’t recall seeing them mentioned in this thread....


----------



## uneri (Jun 24, 2021)

‎


----------



## baskingshark

Ronion said:


> I just got the first cash of cheapish buds in the mail.  The Yincrow X6 arrived (bass is beautiful for buds), the Cat Ear Mimi, and the Fengru TC200.  Early impression, after a few beers, would give a nod to the tc200 overall, but I’d prefer to give it a lot more time.  I have less than 20 minutes on each And I wouldn’t consider any of them “bad” really.  The TC200 are definitely in the early lead and I’ll try not to let that sway my opinion in the long run.  I don’t recall seeing them mentioned in this thread....



The TC200 was hyped to the moon on some facebook threads and it got sold out. So apparently the manufacturer tried to match demand by making new sets, but they had to use new shells. So the newer versions apparently don't sound as good as the older versions, this is from a few forum threads and from people I spoke to that have both.

I only have the older TC200 and it is in my drawer, didn't really like the tonality and timbre, but it has good layering and soundstage. And as usual, we all have different preferences and hear differently, I have lots of friends who love the TC200 to bits.


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Bell Type III Shell Type*
> 
> Indeed the Ks Bell shell is super duper comfortable. Without a doubt the most comfortable earbud I have ever worn is the Ks Bell-Ti 120Ω.
> 
> That said there is apparently a serious and concerning QC issue with flagship Bell models in regards to the cabling at the driver connection point and this appears to be due to a very narrow steam port design. The lower Bell models have an ever-so-slightly different port design and thus a shorter and wider diameter stem which doesn't restrict cable gauge nor cable pullout "knotting". For an excellent example break down of Ks' Bell shells please see *@furyossa* post *here*


When it comes to acoustics, the Ks Bell shells are far from perfect, which proves the fact that new shells are constantly appearing, but none stay long enough to be considered a good solution. Yes, the shells we see often are MX500 and PK which can be said to fulfill all the conditions at first sight but...
Most manufacturers use this type of shells because they consider them "safe" solution and think that by using better quality drivers they can have a product with very good sound quality. The problem is that many of them do not know that the design of the shell itself and the material (cheap plastic) can significantly degrade the sound quality.
And as we can see today, the TOTL model cares more about aesthetics than what is really needed.
Anyway... as Mr.@WoodyLuvr said, Ks Bell shells, by their size and shape they provide good fit and comfort. 
Anyone who has fit problems with Ks Bell buds then should not consider buying an MX500 or PK models because they will definitely have more problems


----------



## furyossa

Ronion said:


> I just got the first cash of cheapish buds in the mail.  The Yincrow X6 arrived (bass is beautiful for buds), the Cat Ear Mimi, and the Fengru TC200.  Early impression, after a few beers, would give a nod to the tc200 overall, but I’d prefer to give it a lot more time.  I have less than 20 minutes on each And I wouldn’t consider any of them “bad” really.  The TC200 are definitely in the early lead and I’ll try not to let that sway my opinion in the long run.  I don’t recall seeing them mentioned in this thread....





baskingshark said:


> The TC200 was hyped to the moon on some facebook threads and it got sold out. So apparently the manufacturer tried to match demand by making new sets, but they had to use new shells. So the newer versions apparently don't sound as good as the older versions, this is from a few forum threads and from people I spoke to that have both.
> 
> I only have the older TC200 and it is in my drawer, didn't really like the tonality and timbre, but it has good layering and soundstage. And as usual, we all have different preferences and hear differently, I have lots of friends who love the TC200 to bits.



Here we talk about Fengru DIY TC200 but not OG Tingo TC200. Maybe is the same driver in question but shells differently not, 
and I go back to the previous comment that the shell material is one of the important items and can affect the sound a lot. 
I share the same opinion as @baskingshark about TC200. For me, TG-38s is a step above TC200


----------



## Ronion

Interesting!  I had never heard of it, but it had a lot of positive reviews on AE and it was cheap, so I just went for it.  it's really surprised me so far in the ways you describe.  So far no ear buds have matched my better IEMs or open backs for frequency balance, but these ones are really good in the 'technicalities' department especially when you factor in price.  They can be driven off a phone too!  I'm definitely pleasantly surprised so far.  I had low expectations.  I mean $8.00.... REALLY!?!  None the less, several more buds are on their way and I've got all these cooking at the moment.


----------



## Ronion

This one is called the 
FENGRU DIY Tingo TC200​


----------



## furyossa

Ronion said:


> Interesting!  I had never heard of it, but it had a lot of positive reviews on AE and it was cheap, so I just went for it.  it's really surprised me so far in the ways you describe.  So far no ear buds have matched my better IEMs or open backs for frequency balance, but these ones are really good in the 'technicalities' department especially when you factor in price.  They can be driven off a phone too!  I'm definitely pleasantly surprised so far.  I had low expectations.  I mean $8.00.... REALLY!?!  None the less, several more buds are on their way and I've got all these cooking at the moment.


RY4S Plus is $8, and they are currently the best "*money vs. value*" buds


----------



## furyossa

Ronion said:


> This one is called the
> FENGRU DIY Tingo TC200​


Yes aka. "fake" Tingo


----------



## Ronion

They may be 'fake', but they're not bad 'fakes' lol.  Don't get me wrong, I don't know the originals at all and I'm not doubting you and/or certainly not saying these are their equals, but just the degree of detail I'm hearing in these puts them in a different class than the Faaeal Iris and Snow-Lotus, Yincrow X6, and the Cat Ear's......  I'm nowhere near even attempting to review any of these.  I wish I had ordered that RY4S.  I'm putting in my shopping cart too.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 13, 2021)

uneri said:


> So, did you ever find out what's wrong with your Bell-Ti? Poor cabling at the driver?
> 
> I've done a lot of research before I got my Onmyoji, reading reviews and posts, and I've never come across any instances or mentions of poor QC.
> Really sad to hear the QC problems you guys are dealing with.


I will have a "full report" of the issue posted on this here thread shortly.

Apparently, there have been a number of these "cable issues" reported over on the Chinese forums which I had completely missed 😭 before my purchase and of course heard about after-the-fact. Drats!


----------



## Ronion

Anyone tried the
DIY Tingo TC400?​


----------



## furyossa

Ronion said:


> They may be 'fake', but they're not bad 'fakes' lol.  Don't get me wrong, I don't know the originals at all and I'm not doubting you and/or certainly not saying these are their equals, but just the degree of detail I'm hearing in these puts them in a different class than the Faaeal Iris and Snow-Lotus, Yincrow X6, and the Cat Ear's......  I'm nowhere near even attempting to review any of these.  I wish I had ordered that RY4S.  I'm putting in my shopping cart too.


I forgot to say that by "fake" I don't think they are bad, but if you like them then you can skip the TC300 and especially the TC400 and get the TG-38s 
*TG-38s* has similar cable as TC200 but is softer, and it has more details. 
*RY4S Plus *is fun, and you can use any cable with them


----------



## furyossa (Jun 8, 2021)

Ronion said:


> Anyone tried the
> DIY Tingo TC400?​


I love only the cable the rest is disaster. I think they just got the name TC400 because of their shiny shell and they have nothing to do with the Tingo lineup.


----------



## Ronion

I've placed the TG-38s and the RY4S Plus in the shopping cart for the next round.  Thanks Furyossa!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 1, 2021)

My new Blurs arrived!

*Blur MX300 美魔女 Beautiful Witch "aPs Edition" (300Ω); 2.5TRRS Balanced; Non-Litz OCC Copper*

The classy simple white leather pouch is handmade by Wong's wife Kit Hey and is a real nice touch.






Upon initial listen I actually noticed an ever so slight difference (improvement) of this newer 2021 version of the Beautiful Witch with aPs tuning over my original *2018 Blur 美魔女 Beautiful Witch (300Ω); 3.5SE Unbalanced*. Not huge but definitely a step in the right direction... more natural with improved timbre in regards to both instruments and vocals.



Spoiler: Blur MX300 美魔女 Beautiful Witch "aPs Edition" (300Ω)






Matched drivers  




Their sensitivity (dBSPL) is exactly like my older witches around 105 to 108 dB/mW

*

*





Spoiler: Adapters & Cables



Here are some of the adapters I use with my Blurs.

*ddHiFi DD DJ35A* Headphone Adapter (2.5TRRS Female to 3.5SE Male)




Venture Electronics (VE) Headphone Adapter (2.5TRRS Female to 3.5SE Male)




FiiO L26 Headphone Adapter (2.5TRRS Female to 3.5SE Male)


----------



## furyossa

Ronion said:


> I've placed the TG-38s and the RY4S Plus in the shopping cart for the next round.  Thanks Furyossa!


Some of my posts for Tingo models. Also you can read here about TG-38s (use translator)
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15477779
https://www.head-fi.org/conversations/heres-the-close-up-of-the-tg-38s.2902387/reply?quote=7561000


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> My new Blurs arrived!
> 
> *Blur MX300 美魔女 Beautiful Witch "aPs" Edition (300Ω); 2.5TRRS Balanced; Non-Litz OCC Copper*
> 
> ...


PERFECTO!  Congrats!
I think it’s superfluous to ask how they sound.  
Is this open here


----------



## fonkepala

Question2 said:


> Ive seen pictures of course but i'm not quite sure how it differs. It looks like the rear part is thicker than normal at least, but I don't know if that will affect things. I can only hope that it will fit me fine when it arrives.
> 
> Someone did tell me that the LBBS are small, but they certaintly dont look small at least...do you find them smaller or larger than normal?


 The LBBs is definitely smaller than normal. Bordering on tiny.




vygas said:


> 2H, 3H and 5H are different drivers made by Foster, they were used in Sennheiser's, Sharp's and certain other MX500 shelled earbuds. They're all fairly warm and smooth, probably have a similar sound signature to the OP139 which also uses a Foster driver but one of the big solder type.


Ah, the OP139. I remember being excited about that one. Ultimately too warm & rolled off in the higher frequencies for my taste. Still, quite a cool shell & ok-ish cable.




assassin10000 said:


> The LB/LBBS are smaller diameter like the Yuin PK shells (16.1-16.3mm O.D.).
> 
> If you prefer smaller diameter earbuds, the K's bell series are the most comfortable of all earbuds shapes I've tried.



They're comfortable, sure. They're comfortable for me too. Thing is, their shape & small size leads to fit issues. Well, for me at least. Won't stay in my ear for long. I've tried everything almost everything (barring fins): no foams, donuts, double foams, donut+full foam combo...nothing worked satisfactorily. Same goes for the Hessian Assanta.




furyossa said:


> Anyway... as Mr.@WoodyLuvr said, Ks Bell shells, by their size and shape they provide good fit and comfort.
> Anyone who has fit problems with Ks Bell buds then should not consider buying an MX500 or PK models because they will definitely have more problems



I beg to differ. I have zero problems with both MX500 and PK shells but a world of issues with K's LBBs. So, I guess YMMV?


----------



## Tapir Tost

The discussion about fit, do earbuds fit below or above your helix crus up to the edge of the antihelix? Idk if i have strange ear anatomy lol


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

chinmie said:


> from some of the earbuds TWS that I've tried:
> 
> Sabbat X12 is a solid performer, especially if you like vocals. not too deep reaching on the subbass though, even with foams.
> Tronsmart Onyx Ace sounds neutral and balanced across the board, subbass is there, and you can put foams to adjust the fitting and sound to your liking.
> ...


Thanks for your insight! I will look at the suggestions. I am looking more for a bud shape PK/MX500 ish type. I will check out the Onyx, Vivo, and TRN. TRN would be great if it had touch controls, it may I just need to look, it still is the hook ear which is kinda what I am doing with my Qudelix right now with a short cable clipped to my ballcap. Appriciate the direction. It was just $43 for the Soundpeats Trueair 2 and Mii Air 2 combined so to me it's worth exploring. I've spent more on earbud drivers I never use lol.


----------



## furyossa

fonkepala said:


> I beg to differ. I have zero problems with both MX500 and PK shells but a world of issues with K's LBBs. So, I guess YMMV?


Even when you wear them with a cable over your ear?


----------



## fonkepala

furyossa said:


> Even when you wear them with a cable over your ear?



Yes, I've tried wearing the LBBs 'over ear' as well. IIRC, I wasn't able to attain a good enough seal when worn that way. Again, just to reiterate, the problems I have with the LBBs (and to a lesser extent, the Hessian Ansata) are most probably only specific to me. The LBBs are well-loved here and elsewhere. Shame it just doesn't work for me.


----------



## RikudouGoku

fonkepala said:


> Yes, I've tried wearing the LBBs 'over ear' as well. IIRC, I wasn't able to attain a good enough seal when worn that way. Again, just to reiterate, the problems I have with the LBBs (and to a lesser extent, the Hessian Ansata) are most probably only specific to me. The LBBs are well-loved here and elsewhere. Shame it just doesn't work for me.


FIY, the LBBS doesnt fit that well for me either. Its a combination of their small size and lightweightness that makes them not fit me very well. 

MX500 still seems to be the best bud shape for me.


----------



## Tapir Tost

fonkepala said:


> Yes, I've tried wearing the LBBs 'over ear' as well. IIRC, I wasn't able to attain a good enough seal when worn that way. Again, just to reiterate, the problems I have with the LBBs (and to a lesser extent, the Hessian Ansata) are most probably only specific to me. The LBBs are well-loved here and elsewhere. Shame it just doesn't work for me.


Is the Hessian Ansata worth the price btw?


----------



## fonkepala

Tapir Tost said:


> Is the Hessian Ansata worth the price btw?



I'd say yes, if you can get them at a fairer price (probably Taobao is your best bet) and you can get past the potential fit issues. They do sound good, IMHO.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Smabat M0: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002629305103.html

Is this new?


This one is a new item at least:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002767263478.html


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Smabat M0: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002629305103.html
> 
> Is this new?
> 
> ...


It's not new, it came out when the Super One


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> It's not new, it came out when the Super One


yeah, I thought I saw it along with the super one and the M2S pro. Guess they only just put it up on their ali store.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> Smabat M0: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002629305103.html
> 
> Is this new?
> 
> ...


This is one of the three new models that Smabat recently released and we chatted about back *here*


----------



## DivineCurrent

Got the VE Zen 2.0 in last week, put up my impressions here: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/ntnfje/150_earbuds_ve_zen_20/

Really awesome earbuds and a significant jump up from the Monks I was using, I often choose them over full size open backs for comfort and I'm not loosing much sound quality over them either. I especially like how you can EQ them a lot in the bass and they don't distort at all. Thank you @zhibli06 ! I look forward to seeing what you're making next!


----------



## vygas

furyossa said:


> Here we talk about Fengru DIY TC200 but not OG Tingo TC200. Maybe is the same driver in question but shells differently not,
> and I go back to the previous comment that the shell material is one of the important items and can affect the sound a lot.
> I share the same opinion as @baskingshark about TC200. For me, TG-38s is a step above TC200


Reading through these posts makes me think how the hell the MX980 driver from the real TinGo TC200 would even fit in an MX500 shell, since those drivers are actually fairly thick but even smaller in diameter than the PK drivers. Though I do agree on the TG-38s, after some burn-in and if you have a legit pair, they are very, very good buds.


----------



## waynes world

chinmie said:


> TRN BT20S Pro



Hey chinmie! Great info. I just wish more of them worked with LDAC!



furyossa said:


> Yes aka. "fake" Tingo



Hey, those are my Tingo's you're talking about!  (kidding of course)



Ronion said:


> I've placed the TG-38s and the RY4S Plus in the shopping cart for the next round.  Thanks Furyossa!



You may be thanking him now, but wait until he starts talking you into TOTL buds lol!


----------



## furyossa (Jun 8, 2021)

waynes world said:


> Hey, those are my Tingo's you're talking about!  (kidding of course)


If you are the creator then sorry, and accept my criticism as a compliment  


waynes world said:


> You may be thanking him now, but wait until he starts talking you into TOTL buds lol!


You are wrong, He can only get a recommendation from me for DIY drivers and earbuds under $100. TOTL buds are nod my thing


----------



## Ronion

Ha ha ha!  Too true.  I’m sure I’ll do a TOTL bud before long, but right now I’m just enjoying how good cheap buds can be.  It seems like when I was a young audiophile and could barely afford anything, everything I could afford was crap.  Kids have it so good these days.  None of these $10ish buds are junk.  I really enjoy the Yincrow X6 and the Fengru Tingo TC200.


----------



## chavez

Iris Ancestors are on the way. Too bad I cant order TC200… CK Lewis only sends to my country via DHL which is 120 euros. For 8$ bud .


----------



## furyossa (Jun 8, 2021)

chavez said:


> Iris Ancestors are on the way. Too bad I cant order TC200… CK Lewis only sends to my country via DHL which is 120 euros. For 8$ bud .


Welcome to my world  For me almost every bud on Ali is the TOTL bud because of DHL shipping $142  
And what about these https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32435966900.html


----------



## chinmie

waynes world said:


> Hey chinmie! Great info. I just wish more of them worked with LDAC!



currently only one TWS can do LDAC, and that is the Sony wf-1000xm4 which only has just been released. maybe after this, other LDAC-ready TWS would start coming out too


----------



## digititus (Jun 8, 2021)

chinmie said:


> currently only one TWS can do LDAC, and that is the Sony wf-1000xm4 which only has just been released. maybe after this, other LDAC-ready TWS would start coming out too


Hiby WH2 also does LDAC - soon to be released


----------



## RikudouGoku

chinmie said:


> currently only one TWS can do LDAC, and that is the Sony wf-1000xm4 which only has just been released. maybe after this, other LDAC-ready TWS would start coming out too


You can go with a bluetooth amp like the Qudelix 5K though.


----------



## chavez

furyossa said:


> Welcome to my world  For me almost every bud on Ali is the TOTL bud because of DHL shipping $142
> And what about these https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32435966900.html








Yeah. Another no go .


----------



## RikudouGoku

chavez said:


> Yeah. Another no go .


...that looks really overpriced. I suggest contacting the seller to see if you can get it cheaper. Usually, dhl express is around 60 usd in that list, but when I contact and ask the seller about it, I can get it for around 30 usd.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 8, 2021)

chavez said:


> Yeah. Another no go .


Because we live in the same crazy country 
I bought my pair 2 years ago for around $17 and shipping is of course free.
If I were to buy a new pair, given that I know what they are like, I could give $25- $30 but no more than that.


----------



## Tapir Tost

chavez said:


> Iris Ancestors are on the way. Too bad I cant order TC200… CK Lewis only sends to my country via DHL which is 120 euros. For 8$ bud .


Same thing here LMAO 😭


----------



## FranQL

RikudouGoku said:


> You can go with a bluetooth amp like the Qudelix 5K though.



In my use case, these BT DACs have not been very practical in the sense of portability.

I use it fiio, but it is another thing to be aware of the battery, I see more practical the TWS.


----------



## Question2

How do you tell what drivers are in a earbud? They dont appear to be listed in the specifications most of the time.


----------



## chavez

furyossa said:


> Because we live in the same crazy country
> I bought my pair 2 years ago for around $17 and shipping is of course free.
> If I were to buy a new pair, given that I know what they are like, I could give $25- $30 but no more than that.


Maybe just maybe our postal service is at fault for inflated shipping prices. You can google it. If you change the country , shipping is usually free. I tried messaging CKLewis store about changing shipping method, but they are slow to respond and look uninterested. (Fengru tingo tc200 is on cklewis store).


----------



## assassin10000

headenvelopedinsound said:


> Thanks for your insight! I will look at the suggestions. I am looking more for a bud shape PK/MX500 ish type. I will check out the Onyx, Vivo, and TRN. TRN would be great if it had touch controls, it may I just need to look, it still is the hook ear which is kinda what I am doing with my Qudelix right now with a short cable clipped to my ballcap. Appriciate the direction. It was just $43 for the Soundpeats Trueair 2 and Mii Air 2 combined so to me it's worth exploring. I've spent more on earbud drivers I never use lol.



You could do what I did and modify some TWS with earbud drivers. The Sabbat X12's will work with 14.8mm drivers.






Top left: X12 Pro with 14.8mm 40Ω Titanium 'bass' drivers (bassier/warmish signature, better for out and about).
Top right: X12 Ultra with 14.8mm 32Ω Titanium drivers (more neutral type signature).


----------



## furyossa

chavez said:


> Maybe just maybe our postal service is at fault for inflated shipping prices. You can google it. If you change the country , shipping is usually free. I tried messaging CKLewis store about changing shipping method, but they are slow to respond and look uninterested. (Fengru tingo tc200 is on cklewis store).


I know all of that, are customs and postal service are the main culprits for this situation and not Ali. This is not the place to talk about it, you have more information on our blogs. Overall, I think this problem will last longer than a pandemic. 
Penon Audio Store is the only place where you can order buds with free shipping.
I ordered a pair of buds 14.05.2021, they send it 18.05 from Hong Kong to Serbia and the package arrived at our customs on 29.05 and still stands there.


----------



## chavez

furyossa said:


> I know all of that, are customs and postal service are the main culprits for this situation and not Ali. This is not the place to talk about it, you have more information on our blogs. Overall, I think this problem will last longer than a pandemic.
> Penon Audio Store is the only place where you can order buds with free shipping.
> I ordered a pair of buds 14.05.2021, they send it 18.05 from Hong Kong to Serbia and the package arrived at our customs on 29.05 and still stands there.


Paiaudio PR1?😁


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> You could do what I did and modify some TWS with earbud drivers. The Sabbat X12's will work with 14.8mm drivers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You have been posting pictures of these TWS earbuds several times already, and it is strange that Sabbat did not contact you to buy your idea or to include you in the RnD team on the development of a new model.


----------



## furyossa

chavez said:


> Paiaudio PR1?😁


No. I have ordered from them before, probably 5-6 times and all deliveries took very slow between 1-3 months. This is the fastest that has arrived so far but the customs is holding things back


----------



## chinmie

RikudouGoku said:


> You can go with a bluetooth amp like the Qudelix 5K though.



that's not a true wireless solution though.


----------



## chinmie

assassin10000 said:


> You could do what I did and modify some TWS with earbud drivers. The Sabbat X12's will work with 14.8mm drivers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've been itching to try this from the first time you ever posted this idea, but haven't found a modder that can do this yet


----------



## Ronion (Jun 9, 2021)

The more I listen to the Faaeal Iris 2.0, the more I like it as well.  I’ve got to find a way to get more objective data on ear buds.  What I’m learning in switching back and forth is that this stuff is unusually challenging.  Fat more so than I thought it would be and I didn’t think it would be easy.  There’s got to be a good way to keep me honest that doesn’t cost too much.


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> You have been posting pictures of these TWS earbuds several times already, and it is strange that Sabbat did not contact you to buy your idea or to include you in the RnD team on the development of a new model.


That would be nice.


chinmie said:


> I've been itching to try this from the first time you ever posted this idea, but haven't found a modder that can do this yet


Well, I could always sell you one of my pairs.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

furyossa said:


> You have been posting pictures of these TWS earbuds several times already, and it is strange that Sabbat did not contact you to buy your idea or to include you in the RnD team on the development of a new model.


Concur completely!


chinmie said:


> I've been itching to try this from the first time you ever posted this idea, but haven't found a modder that can do this yet


There are only two (2) brave and skilled enough to do this and have any chance of success: *@assassin10000* and *@ClieOS 🤘*


----------



## chinmie

assassin10000 said:


> That would be nice.
> 
> Well, I could always sell you one of my pairs.



shipping cost would be a lot though


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Nov 15, 2021)

*DELETED*


----------



## assassin10000

chinmie said:


> shipping cost would be a lot though



About $17usd last I checked.


----------



## baskingshark

WoodyLuvr said:


> *To All The New Earbud Newbies & Lurkers Out There...* I am making a valent attempt to be more nice as I know I don't often play well with others. I am grumpy and old.
> 
> Initially the best advice we can give to those just entering the world of earbuds:
> 
> ...



Dang, this is like the Holy grail of earbud information!!

Thanks for the super helpful links, I think a lot of earbuds enthusiasts experienced and new will benefit from this. We should like put a sticky post for it or put it at the first page of this thread!!

Thanks once again @WoodyLuvr


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> *To All The New Earbud Newbies & Lurkers Out There...* I am making a valent attempt to be more nice as I know I don't often play well with others. I am grumpy and old.
> 
> Initially the best advice we can give to those just entering the world of earbuds:
> 
> ...





baskingshark said:


> Dang, this is like the Holy grail of earbud information!!
> 
> Thanks for the super helpful links, I think a lot of earbuds enthusiasts experienced and new will benefit from this. We should like put a sticky post for it or put it at the first page of this thread!!
> 
> Thanks once again @WoodyLuvr


Yup. This is the Holy Grail and also basic step by step guide, *for the people only*, easy to follow.
Anyone who adheres to these guidelines automatically shows respect to other members of the forum

Unfortunately, these kind words of Mr. @WoodyLuvr  cannot defend us from of things like this
As always, thanks mr. W.L. for your invaluable contribution to this forum


----------



## SiggyFraud (Jun 9, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Because we live in the same crazy country
> I bought my pair 2 years ago for around $17 and shipping is of course free.
> If I were to buy a new pair, given that I know what they are like, I could give $25- $30 but no more than that.


Had the same problem with extremely high shipping rates for the T200 to my country until I found this listing: https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32805136073.html.
Maybe it'll work for you guys.


----------



## furyossa

Thanks but still only DHL at $142.07.


----------



## SiggyFraud

furyossa said:


> Thanks but still only DHL at $142.07.


Well, it was worth a shot.


----------



## furyossa

SiggyFraud said:


> Well, it was worth a shot.


Thanks for your effort  , but believe me I look and tried everything.
I really got tired of all and gave up.


----------



## waynes world

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Thirdly,* *"use the thread search bar!"* it will unlock many treasures and provide you many detailed answers... again, sparing us needless posts.



The below is off topic, but you started it!  

Good suggestions, but I have a problem with the search tool. I like how you can search for text in a particular thread, but you can't seem to sort the results from newest to oldest. That often stops me from bothering to use the search tool, because I'll have to sift though a bunch of really old stuff.

And if you go into "advanced search", you can sort "from newest to oldest", but you can't specify a single thread. Grrr!

If you know how to search in a single thread from newest to oldest, please let me know! I'm hoping that I've simply missed it.


----------



## RikudouGoku

waynes world said:


> The below is off topic, but you started it!
> 
> Good suggestions, but I have a problem with the search tool. I like how you can search for text in a particular thread, but you can't seem to sort the results from newest to oldest. That often stops me from bothering to use the search tool, because I'll have to sift though a bunch of really old stuff.
> 
> ...










It sorts from newest to oldest automatically and will only show the specific thread you are in when you use the search bar here.


----------



## waynes world

RikudouGoku said:


> It sorts from newest to oldest automatically and will only show the specific thread you are in when you use the search bar here.



Thank you. But damn. I must be impaired in some manner not have seen that! I remember complaining to headfi about this (before they added the feature obviously). I guess they were nice enough to add it. But how dare they not put it in neon flashing lights for me! I almost feel like deleting my stupid post, but I won't just in case it helps some other poor souls lol.

Thanks again!


----------



## furyossa

waynes world said:


> Thank you. But damn. I must be impaired in some manner not have seen that! I remember complaining to headfi about this (before they added the feature obviously). I guess they were nice enough to add it. But how dare they not put it in neon flashing lights for me! I almost feel like deleting my stupid post, but I won't just in case it helps some other poor souls lol.
> 
> Thanks again!


I think that 80% of people here didn't know about it, and you are right, it sinks too much into the background, maybe a lighter or darker shade could go to stand out a little more. All in all, this search bar is really nice addition for any thread


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> I think that 80% of people here didn't know about it, and you are right, it sinks too much into the background, maybe a lighter or darker shade could go to stand out a little more. All in all, this search bar is really nice addition for any thread


Is this better?


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Is this better?


Yup. When you click on the search bar it gets a slightly darker shade but for better recognition it is definitely better to go in color or gradient.


----------



## n00b

uh oh, i think im converted. used to be an IEM and closed back headphone guy, but now since I figured out the best foams, cable and fit for my EBX21 it's all i want to listen with. Even really comfortable headphones like MDR-1AM2 I still find heavy/cumbersome, and comfortable IEMs like my Blessing 2 Dusks still feel like they're clogging because of the seal. I try popping in some random MX500 or my ME80s and a few tracks later I'll reach for my EBX21 again.

I listen to mainly pop and r&b with female vocalists, and lately have been into korean ballads and.. yeah the EBX21 sound the most natural for those genres on all my gear at the moment. There's detail, air, wide enough soundstage.. I also don't feel particularly fatigued listening to them or wearing them. Over the ear with  a memory wire hook applies just enough pressure to keep them in my ear and sealing well, so with a single full foam and a single donut foam layered I get enough bass response without muddling the upper frequencies.

Of course I'm happy with them but because this hobby is a scam I am curious where to go from here. Chaconne for potentially even better vocals? RW-2000 and a nice cable to have some bassy complement to the EBX21? I already thought the EBX21 had good enough bass once I got the fit and foams down, and I've never heard Yincrow bass before. Or do I save and get all three and then delete my account and live in ignorance? The best answer is probably just keep saving and wait to see what other TOTL shows up.. All the money I was saving to go towards the next headphone and next IEM though, I feel like I could just sink into earbuds and be happy. I think I "get" the rabbit hole, or at least am starting to now..


----------



## furyossa (Jun 9, 2021)

n00b said:


> uh oh, i think im converted. used to be an IEM and closed back headphone guy, but now since I figured out the best foams, cable and fit for my EBX21 it's all i want to listen with. Even really comfortable headphones like MDR-1AM2 I still find heavy/cumbersome, and comfortable IEMs like my Blessing 2 Dusks still feel like they're clogging because of the seal. I try popping in some random MX500 or my ME80s and a few tracks later I'll reach for my EBX21 again.
> 
> I listen to mainly pop and r&b with female vocalists, and lately have been into korean ballads and.. yeah the EBX21 sound the most natural for those genres on all my gear at the moment. There's detail, air, wide enough soundstage.. I also don't feel particularly fatigued listening to them or wearing them. Over the ear with  a memory wire hook applies just enough pressure to keep them in my ear and sealing well, so with a single full foam and a single donut foam layered I get enough bass response without muddling the upper frequencies.
> 
> Of course I'm happy with them but because this hobby is a scam I am curious where to go from here. Chaconne for potentially even better vocals? RW-2000 and a nice cable to have some bassy complement to the EBX21? I already thought the EBX21 had good enough bass once I got the fit and foams down, and I've never heard Yincrow bass before. Or do I save and get all three and then delete my account and live in ignorance? The best answer is probably just keep saving and wait to see what other TOTL shows up.. All the money I was saving to go towards the next headphone and next IEM though, I feel like I could just sink into earbuds and be happy. I think I "get" the rabbit hole, or at least am starting to now..


With Fiio cable they look even better  and if only the stem was 5mm shorter, they would be perfect for wearing over the ears.
Since the stem is a bit longer, a simple vent system could be done, which would have  impact on low end. Maybe we'll see this on EBX22, who knows


----------



## jogawag (Jun 10, 2021)

Like my post on 2021/06/07, the seller said, "about the earphone, we will ship after receive it. We need to detect the problems, and hope you can understand, thank you.".
Such a cold reply to me, though maybe because the seller read my post , he finally shipped me a brand new Onmyoji today (06/10).

This result may be due to the influence of head-fi.

Cheers.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 10, 2021)

jogawag said:


> Maybe because the seller read my post of 2021/06/07, the seller sayed that "about the earphone, we will ship after receive it. we need to detect the problems, and hope you can understand, thank you. ". Such a cold reply to me, though the seller finally shipped me a brand new Onmyoji today (06/10).
> 
> This result may be due to the influence of head-fi.
> 
> Cheers.


Awesome to hear! Jim is a great guy and I imagine he didn't read your original messages until later as sometimes his staff monitors and answers them for him.


----------



## digititus

jogawag said:


> Like my post on 2021/06/07, the seller said, "about the earphone, we will ship after receive it. We need to detect the problems, and hope you can understand, thank you.".
> Such a cold reply to me, though maybe because the seller read my post , he finally shipped me a brand new Onmyoji today (06/10).
> 
> This result may be due to the influence of head-fi.
> ...


Which seller?


----------



## jogawag

digititus said:


> Which seller?


NiceHCK Audio Store


----------



## Magiczny78

Hello everyone. 
I own the RY4S mmcx plus, Snow Lotus 2.0 and Vido headphones. The Vido are a little too dark, the Snow lotus 2.0 are lacking in bass, while the RY4S are great. However, I am looking for something similar to the RY4S plus that I also like, maybe there is something even better but in a low budget ($15 max)? Thank you very much.


----------



## uneri (Jun 24, 2021)

‎


----------



## jogawag (Jun 10, 2021)

uneri said:


> Surprised to hear this, as I've heard nothing but good customer service from them (BTW, I also got my Onmyoji from them too).
> 
> Hope everything works out for you this time round.


I couldn't believe his statement at first either.
I think it's possible that he happened to be in a bad mood when I informed him that the sound on the left side of Onmyoji was not working.
So he may have regretted it later.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

jogawag said:


> I couldn't believe his statement at first either.
> I think it's possible that he happened to be in a bad mood when I informed him that the sound on the left side of Onmyoji was not working.
> So he may have regretted it later.


I imagine Jim hadn't read your original messages until later as sometimes his staff monitors and answers the Ali DMs for him. Their English is much weaker than his and can come across curt and confusing sometimes.


----------



## 40760

jogawag said:


> I couldn't believe his statement at first either.
> I think it's possible that he happened to be in a bad mood when I informed him that the sound on the left side of Onmyoji was not working.
> So he may have regretted it later.


 I got called liar by another seller... I rather your cold treatment.


----------



## Ronion

Out of the ear buds I presently have in rotation, the Cat Ear Mimi are the most comfortable and yet the worst sounding.  MX500 shells aren't horribly uncomfortable for me, but the DP100 has no pressure points. Is there a DP100 shell ear bud that performs really well or is there a design flaw in the shape when it comes to sound quality?


----------



## furyossa (Jun 10, 2021)

Ronion said:


> Out of the ear buds I presently have in rotation, the Cat Ear Mimi are the most comfortable and yet the worst sounding.  MX500 shells aren't horribly uncomfortable for me, but the DP100 has no pressure points. Is there a DP100 shell ear bud that performs really well or is there a design flaw in the shape when it comes to sound quality?


As you notice, and I've mentioned it several times, that DP100 provide better comfort and fit due to no symmetrical position of the stem.
Also, the shell "head" is a bit shallow compared to MX500, which in most cases contributes to a slightly more intimate sound, similar to close back headphones.
An interesting model that also uses these shells is ShoonTH ESEP-01BL. On Penon Audio Store you can find the whole lineup and some reviews and here you can see how they look inside 
I really like this entry level model and I can only imagine how much better the next two high impend ace models are.
In these case cable make difference for sure because stock cable of ESEP-01BL is the type of cable which should be banned for earbuds use.


----------



## digititus

uneri said:


> Surprised to hear this, as I've heard nothing but good customer service from them (BTW, I also got my Onmyoji from them too).
> 
> Hope everything works out for you this time round.


Same. I had a problem with one of their products. Uploaded a video to show the issue and the next day they shipped me a replacement without me having to return the original. Polite and professional throughout. Someone may have a had a bad day as you mentioned.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Btw, just to let you guys know. But if you are interested in the Smabat M0, you might want to wait for the reviews. Smabat is sending out A LOT of them lol. 

Not sure If I want it though, since I already have the M2S Pro and the Super One coming.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Btw, just to let you guys know. But if you are interested in the Smabat M0, you might want to wait for the reviews. Smabat is sending out A LOT of them lol.
> 
> Not sure If I want it though, since I already have the M2S Pro and the Super One coming.


Why not? It would be great if they could send you all the drivers that are compatible with it and do a review for the whole lineup. 
This would really help in choosing the right driver for this model.


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Why not? It would be great if they could send you all the drivers that are compatible with it and do a review for the whole lineup.
> This would really help in choosing the right driver for this model.


I think they are only sending out the basic M0, so not with all the driver configs.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> I think they are only sending out the basic M0, so not with all the driver configs.


Hmmm... that's too bad, if M0 use the same driver connection method as M2S Pro then I don't see the need for a review.


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Hmmm... that's too bad, if M0 use the same driver connection method as M2S Pro then I don't see the need for a review.


but it does make me wonder why the M2S Pro is like 3x more expensive then...


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> but it does make me wonder why the M2S Pro is like 3x more expensive then...


Probably because M2S Pro use the best driver in the lineup.


----------



## wskl

RikudouGoku said:


> but it does make me wonder why the M2S Pro is like 3x more expensive then...



I could be wrong but I think the M0 does not have the labyrinth acoustic chamber which is common to the other Smabat earbuds.


----------



## RikudouGoku

wskl said:


> I could be wrong but I think the M0 does not have the labyrinth acoustic chamber which is common to the other Smabat earbuds.


Seems like it, they dont mention it in the M0´s description.

But they do on the M2S Pro.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> but it does make me wonder why the M2S Pro is like 3x more expensive then...


I wonder why the price of the Super One is four times higher than the ST-10s model 


wskl said:


> I could be wrong but I think the M0 does not have the labyrinth acoustic chamber which is common to the other Smabat earbuds.


You are right. M0 is the simple metal shell without labyrinth acoustic chamber
https://www.smabat.com/products/smabat-m0-modular-earphone-diy-standard-edition


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> I wonder why the price of the Super One is four times higher than the ST-10s model
> 
> You are right. M0 is the simple metal shell without labyrinth acoustic chamber
> https://www.smabat.com/products/smabat-m0-modular-earphone-diy-standard-edition


hahaha, yeah. The Super one is going to have to prove itself against the Chaconne and good luck with that lol.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 10, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> hahaha, yeah. The Super one is going to have to prove itself against the Chaconne and good luck with that lol.


Yup. It will be an interesting comparison for sure.
As for the bass, the S-One is definitely the winner and everything else goes to Chaconne. These are my predictions by looking at the design of the shell


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Yup. It will be an interesting comparison for sure.
> As for the bass, the S-One is definitely the winner and everything else Chaconne. These are my predictions by looking at the design of the shell


Sounds likely. Especially if the S-one is supposed to be a true upgrade to the ST10S, I can definitely see it beating the Chaconne in the bass department (not that hard to do though), but mids (especially female vocals) and treble? That is a tough fight and I dont know if it is even possible to be better/similar along with the better bass lol.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 10, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Sounds likely. Especially if the S-one is supposed to be a true upgrade to the ST10S, I can definitely see it beating the Chaconne in the bass department (not that hard to do though), but mids (especially female vocals) and treble? That is a tough fight and I dont know if it is even possible to be better/similar along with the better bass lol.


I doubt the S-One can dominate here. Bass can be a double-edged sword. 
Both models do not target the same user group.


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> I doubt the S-One can dominate here. Bass can be a double-edged sword.


Hopefully it is more sub bass focused rather than mid bass. And with a non peaky treble, as I am pretty sure that the st10s has a peak at 3k which is like poison for me.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Hopefully it is more sub bass focused rather than mid bass. And with a non peaky treble, as I am pretty sure that the st10s has a peak at 3k which is like poison for me.


You mean "female poison"


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> You mean "female poison"


hahha, yeah. Indeed.


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> Sounds likely. Especially if the S-one is supposed to be a true upgrade to the ST10S, I can definitely see it beating the Chaconne in the bass department (not that hard to do though), but mids (especially female vocals) and treble? That is a tough fight and I dont know if it is even possible to be better/similar along with the better bass lol.



Are those units coming in your first taste of the SMABAT series?


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> Are those units coming in your first taste of the SMABAT series?


Yup, never heard any smabats before.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 10, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Are those units coming in your first taste of the SMABAT series?


What are your predictions regarding Smabat S-one and the duel with Chaconne?


----------



## baskingshark

furyossa said:


> What are your predictions regarding Smabat S-one and the duel with Chaconne?



Haha I predict based on SMABAT's house signature, probably the Super SMABAT will be bassier than the Chaconne. It is very pricey though, they must really believe in their earbud to demand such pricing! Not many will blind buy at that price for sure, so we gotta wait for @RikudouGoku 's review.

Anyways, as a side note, Chaconne was never on my wishlist due to the non detachable cable, just a personal guideline of mine not to buy gear > $50 USD with non detachable cables.


----------



## n00b

bro what is up with brands making their TOTL buds blue. $300 asking price up against a titanium and brass Chaconne.. I personally am so specific about aesthetics for something I literally cannot see when I’m using them so I would rather go for the chaconne just on how it looks lol. I’ll still keep an eye out though, I think I’ll eventually want a bassy bud and so far I just have the RW2000 in mind for that. The bud world is exciting and hard to keep up with 😵‍💫


----------



## RikudouGoku

n00b said:


> bro what is up with brands making their TOTL buds blue. $300 asking price up against a titanium and brass Chaconne.. I personally am so specific about aesthetics for something I literally cannot see when I’m using them so I would rather go for the chaconne just on how it looks lol. I’ll still keep an eye out though, I think I’ll eventually want a bassy bud and so far I just have the RW2000 in mind for that. The bud world is exciting and hard to keep up with 😵‍💫


I certainly hope the Super one is going to be my endgame sub-bass bud.   

The Chaconne is already my endgame for a neutral bud and the RW-2000 is probably my mid-bass endgame. Now I only need a sub-bass focused bud that is on the Chaconne level and I be very happy.


----------



## n00b

i am rooting for you to find your endgame bud so I can selfishly buy the same one on your recommendation without investing the time money and effort to discover it on my own ❤️


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> I certainly hope the Super one is going to be my endgame sub-bass bud.
> 
> The Chaconne is already my endgame for a neutral bud and the RW-2000 is probably my mid-bass endgame. Now I only need a sub-bass focused bud that is on the Chaconne level and I be very happy.


You also forgot the treble endgame. PT2K21 Ask @FranQL


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> You also forgot the treble endgame. PT2K21 Ask @FranQL


The Chaconne has probably the best treble I have ever heard of out all my transducers...might even beat the EST in the Dunu EST112.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 12, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> The Chaconne has probably the best treble I have ever heard of out all my transducers...might even beat the EST in the Dunu EST112.


The Chaconne's treble is extended, but it sounds a little too resonant for me.

I prefer the treble of the Onmyoji. Its treble is crisp, bright, and clear, and it sounds balanced without being resonant.
And the Onmyoji has enough tight bass and good fit too.
(But I don't have it with me right now, so this is my memory from a week ago...)


----------



## RikudouGoku

hmmm, ok lol. Just maybeeeee. But I could actually get my smabat package next week. Seems it is in customs here in sweden now. If this follows the average time, It should take them a week to release and get them to me....well....but dont have your hopes up lol. They are usually VERY slow....


----------



## RikudouGoku

What are you guys planning on getting on the sale next week? 

I wonder if I should get all the iris' from faaeal lol.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> What are you guys planning on getting on the sale next week?
> 
> I wonder if I should get all the iris' from faaeal lol.


They are very cheap. I only have DaturPro from FAAEAL lineup and next week I will buy from my friend Snow Lotus 1.0 64ohm Commemorative Edition but
I don't expect that can parry DaturaPro model. 
This is funny. 54% discount  $323.64 Yeah right







Do you know maybe when the Penon Audio Store has a sale?


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> They are very cheap. I only have DaturPro from FAAEAL lineup and next week I will buy from my friend Snow Lotus 1.0 64ohm Commemorative Edition but
> I don't expect that can parry DaturaPro model.
> This is funny. 54% discount  $323.64 Yeah right
> 
> ...


Yeah, they are cheap and thats why I will probably get them to get to the bottom of the confusion amongst the different versions...
Might pick up the Rosemary as well lol. The Snow lotus 2.5mm dissapointed me a lot for that price, so I will not get more from that lineup.


That 54% sale thing is always there on every ali item lol.


Penon rarely have sales from what I know, they usually have early bird discounts though when it comes to new products. Personally I wont give them more money after how they treated me...


----------



## n00b

somebody please tell me the chaconne, onmyoji and rw-2000 never actually go on sale so i dont have to tie up my last two brain cells in a purchase decision


----------



## furyossa (Jun 10, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> The Snow lotus 2.5mm dissapointed me a lot for that price, so I will not get more from that lineup.


That's why I said I don't expect anything special from them. I take them mostly for a DIY project and because I don't have a single blue MX500 shell in my collection 


RikudouGoku said:


> That 54% sale thing is always there on every ali item lol.


This 50% discount should be on existing prices and not on a 50% increased fake price 


RikudouGoku said:


> Penon rarely have sales from what I know, they usually have early bird discounts though when it comes to new products. Personally I wont give them more money after how they treated me...


I only have free shipping from them, and I agree, they are not ideal but at the moment I have no other choice. I've been thinking for a long time about pulling the trigger on
ShoonTH ESEP-01BLE. A 10% -20% discount would be great but ...


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> That's why I said I don't expect anything special from them. I take them mostly for a DIY project and I don't have a single blue MX500 shell in my collection
> 
> This 50% discount should be on existing prices and not on a 50% increased fake price
> 
> ...


They do have a store on aliexpress though. Maybe you can buy from them (and be able to use coupons) and they still ship to you?
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1994049




n00b said:


> somebody please tell me the chaconne, onmyoji and rw-2000 never actually go on sale so i dont have to tie up my last two brain cells in a purchase decision


Chaconne, as with most moondrop gear rarely go on sale and if they do its usually not that much. The RW-2000 do go on sale though, as you can tell by looking at price trackers:



https://www.pricearchive.org/aliexpress.com/item/1005001657660869


But even if they dont have a discount on them directly, you can still use coupons during sales on them.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> They do have a store on aliexpress though. Maybe you can buy from them (and be able to use coupons) and they still ship to you?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1994049


I know that they have a store on Ali, but they only offer a few TOTL buds, while on the official website they have everything.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

I really love the Yinman-600, can anybody compare it to the Yinman 150 ohms?


----------



## Sam L

I'm saving up for another TOTL-ish earbud. Any suggestions?


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Sam L said:


> I'm saving up for another TOTL-ish earbud. Any suggestions?


Zen LL special edition is awesome.
Yinman 600 is great
Yincrow 2000 double foamed, great.


----------



## Sam L

Serge Bernamej said:


> Zen LL special edition is awesome.
> Yinman 600 is great
> Yincrow 2000 double foamed, great.


this one?


----------



## 40760

Sam L said:


> this one?



Yes. SLQ.


----------



## Question2

Ive just placed an order for a pair of NiceHCK PK1s. As strange as it may sound, this is my first time buying two earphones at once...(i typically can't justify buying more than one pair at once due to the cost). It's cheap enough that it's not a big dent in my wallet at least. I hope that I will be able to do a comparison with the LBBS when they arrive.


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah, they are cheap and thats why I will probably get them to get to the bottom of the confusion amongst the different versions...
> Might pick up the Rosemary as well lol. The Snow lotus 2.5mm dissapointed me a lot for that price, so I will not get more from that lineup.
> 
> 
> ...



Rosemary is decent, warm and bassy L shaped set. Needs amping due to the high impedance, bass bleeds and knowing u like fast and clean bass, it might not be the set for you IMHO.

It is like the final E3000/5000 type of signature, warm and bassy with nebulous bass.



Sam L said:


> I'm saving up for another TOTL-ish earbud. Any suggestions?



Yincrow RW2000. Warm neutralish and well balanced, good timbre and technicalities. Detachable too, unlike many TOTL breathen. I like the subbass extension, rather good for a earbud, but not as much subbass as the typical smabat.

Midbass bleeds a bit but that adds to the warmish tone. Anyway been using it almost daily for three weeks now.


----------



## fonkepala

n00b said:


> I listen to mainly pop and r&b with female vocalists, and lately have been into korean ballads and.. yeah the EBX21 sound the most natural for those genres on all my gear at the moment.


Korean ballads ftw! I'm into them as well. Nothing like 'em. PM me some of your faves, if you don't mind 



RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah, they are cheap and thats why I will probably get them to get to the bottom of the confusion amongst the different versions...
> Might pick up the Rosemary as well lol. The Snow lotus 2.5mm dissapointed me a lot for that price, so I will not get more from that lineup.


This Faaeal bud was one of the more pleasant surprises that I bought last year (see attachment). Not really sure which version of the Iris this really is, but it has that cable exactly. Cable was weird at first, but grew on me. SQ is very good, IMHO.



baskingshark said:


> Rosemary is decent, warm and bassy L shaped set. Needs amping due to the high impedance, bass bleeds and knowing u like fast and clean bass, it might not be the set for you IMHO.


I agree with the above observation regarding the Rosemary. Very warm & smooth-sounding. I didn't mind it and used mine for quite long stretches with no complaints. If you're after clarity or transparency, look elsewhere I suppose.


----------



## fonkepala

Sam L said:


> I'm saving up for another TOTL-ish earbud. Any suggestions?


Sam, maybe you can consider getting one of the Blur earbuds from Wong Kuan Wae over on FB (https://www.facebook.com/wkuanwae). I auditioned one of the older models once and they sounded pretty much TOTL imho. I can imagine he can only improve upon the SQ with time.


----------



## ShaneyMac

RikudouGoku said:


> What are you guys planning on getting on the sale next week?


Nothing at the moment from Aliexpress... Unfortunately, import taxes and customs in EU will kill this low budget $5-$25 earbuds/iems shopping from Ali  At least until sellers allow purchases from EU warehouses. And I hope they will... 
Regarding your question: I'm waiting for Fiio EM3 that I find in some local webshop (even cheaper than Ali)


----------



## furyossa

ShaneyMac said:


> Nothing at the moment from Aliexpress... Unfortunately, import taxes and customs in EU will kill this low budget $5-$25 earbuds/iems shopping from Ali  At least until sellers allow purchases from EU warehouses. *And I hope they will...*
> Regarding your question: I'm waiting for Fiio EM3 that I find in some local webshop (even cheaper than Ali)


  I've been hoping for that for a year and a half.
I'll tell you a secret, only this dude  can help us, of course if you still believe in him


----------



## Ronion

The Qian69 arrived today and I think it’s now on the overall leaderboard of ear buds I have.  Very comfortable and no major errors of commission.  It’s not the most exciting sound, but nothing about it annoys me.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 11, 2021)

Ronion said:


> The Qian69 arrived today and I think it’s now on the overall leaderboard of ear buds I have.  Very comfortable and no major errors of commission.  It’s not the most exciting sound, but nothing about it annoys me.


I hope you enjoy the comfort. They have a unique shape.
It's a real shame they haven't had anything new to offer in a long time. They can keep the same shell and just insert some exotic driver


----------



## ShaneyMac

furyossa said:


> I've been hoping for that for a year and a half.
> I'll tell you a secret, only this dude  can help us, of course if you still believe in him


 Well, I don't believe in that guy since I recognize my uncle disguised as him at some local New Year event long, long time ago  
Unlike you, I believe that only this guy 💰 can help us. His Majesty - The Profit


----------



## furyossa

ShaneyMac said:


> Well, I don't believe in that guy since I recognize my uncle disguised as him at some local New Year event long, long time ago
> Unlike you, I believe that only this guy 💰 can help us. His Majesty - The Profit


Yup. It’s not a problem to spend 💰 on gear, but it’s really absurd to spend over $100 on shipping + tax. Well, we don't trade gold bars for God's sake


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> Rosemary is decent, warm and bassy L shaped set. Needs amping due to the high impedance, bass bleeds and knowing u like fast and clean bass, it might not be the set for you IMHO.
> 
> It is like the final E3000/5000 type of signature, warm and bassy with nebulous bass.


alright disqualified.  Guess it just be the 3 other iris verions then.


----------



## golov17

Well, finally Shenzhenaudio made the newest small Ostry KC08a available to us for purchase, so good news. 

US $109.99 | Ostry KC08A Upgraded Version Earbuds
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOxxD9x


----------



## Serge Bernamej

RikudouGoku said:


> alright disqualified.  Guess it just be the 3 other iris verions then.


Rosemary is still awesome. Full sounding. I prefer it even to the Bell-ti.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Serge Bernamej said:


> Rosemary is still awesome. Full sounding. I prefer it even to the Bell-ti.


I prefer faster and tighter bass as @baskingshark mentioned along with a lot of quantity. So its pretty hard to satisfy me in the bass department because I like A LOT of bass and that usually means the quality will be sacrificed for it (especially for buds).


----------



## jeejack (Jun 11, 2021)

Any comparison between TOTL earbuds vs DIY 130ohm beryllium drivers? I'm very curious. I do not own any TOTL earbuds. The most expensive pair I have is the M2pro with ST10s driver


----------



## headenvelopedinsound (Jun 11, 2021)

assassin10000 said:


> You could do what I did and modify some TWS with earbud drivers. The Sabbat X12's will work with 14.8mm drivers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Love that idea. I don't have many 14.8mm drivers but I do know I really like my Smabat M1Pro as it is super neutral and comfy. Will have to look into that option. It's obvious I like to tweak if you look on the DIY thread...

I actually find these Soundpeats trueair 2 buds really good. Pretty much what I anticipated them to be, kind of a harmonish tuning that is balanced and not bass bloated but still present. Things to note is there is a slight bump around 8khz which seems popular or was to kind of bring more clarity but I'd prefer it not to be there. The main thing is there seems to be a very sharp drop off around 13khz so there really isn't much "air" and openness to the sound. It is very direct and focused sounding with the added benefit of just having that natural advantage buds have as far as spatial sound to slightly offset that.

So as a result of the sharp drop off around 13khz the resolution does not shine as much as it could. BUT for $30 I am super surprised by the performance. Also of note is that these have the strongest connection out of any of my bluetooth as far as distance from device. I can walk all over my house and have no drop outs. That just doesn't happen with my Qudelix, Galaxy Buds+, or KZ S2.

For general use I'd give this set a rec.

Edit: assassin - what Sabbat would you rec to get between those two with the knowledge that the drives would be swapped out?


----------



## Сomrade (Jun 11, 2021)

waynes world said:


> I just wish more of them worked with LDAC!


No obstacles for this - * FiiO LC-BT2*


----------



## FranQL (Jun 11, 2021)

Сomrade said:


> No obstacles for this - * FiiO LC-BT2*



Well, really if there is an obstacle, and that is that you have to wear a necklace .....





although they are not buds .... my bet will be for WF-1000XM4


----------



## furyossa (Jun 11, 2021)

Сomrade said:


> No obstacles for this - * FiiO LC-BT2*





FranQL said:


> Well, really if there is an obstacle, and that is that you have to wear a necklace .....


I don't know but it all comes down to personal preference. For those who don’t like cable TWS buds/IEMs/headphones are way to go.
On the other hand, all solutions which use cables in some ways, are much inferior to BT portable DAC/AMP devices such as Fiio BTR5, Qudelix-5K and EarStudio ES100.
Also, with them, you can always use short cable

BTW ... this LC-BT2 reminds me a little of Pets Collar Tracker . Just look at her face


----------



## fonkepala

Wanted some Spinfit CP145 tips, added them to my cart. Then, noticed that the seller has the Iris Ancestor as well for less than USD$3, so bought that too  I just* love* cheap earbuds.


----------



## assassin10000

headenvelopedinsound said:


> Love that idea. I don't have many 14.8mm drivers but I do know I really like my Smabat M1Pro as it is super neutral and comfy. Will have to look into that option. It's obvious I like to tweak if you look on the DIY thread...


That's why I mentioned this as an option.


headenvelopedinsound said:


> Edit: assassin - what Sabbat would you rec to get between those two with the knowledge that the drives would be swapped out?


I'd go for the X12 Ultra's so you also have Apt-X. 

The X12 Pro is the earlier version and is AAC/SBC only, it also doesn't have qi wireless charging case. Well, unless you mod the case for it like I did.


----------



## RikudouGoku

fonkepala said:


> Wanted some Spinfit CP145 tips, added them to my cart. Then, noticed that the seller has the Iris Ancestor as well for less than USD$3, so bought that too  I just* love* cheap earbuds.


Which store? Its 4,3 usd at the official store lol.


----------



## Сomrade

FranQL said:


> my bet will be for WF-1000XM4


Speaker, like a dog on a chain.


----------



## fonkepala

RikudouGoku said:


> Which store? Its 4,3 usd at the official store lol.


Jietu on Lazada (link). The equivalent of USD$2.91.


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

assassin10000 said:


> That's why I mentioned this as an option.
> 
> I'd go for the X12 Ultra's so you also have Apt-X.
> 
> The X12 Pro is the earlier version and is AAC/SBC only, it also doesn't have qi wireless charging case. Well, unless you mod the case for it like I did.


awesome thanks man! I will look for them since we have another sale on ali at our door.


----------



## Ronion

Exactly what I was thinking.  Perhaps they are taking their time to get it perfect before release?  This shell has real potential.  The one on the Qian39 might even be better from what I’ve read...


furyossa said:


> I hope you enjoy the comfort. They have a unique shape.
> It's a real shame they haven't had anything new to offer in a long time. They can keep the same shell and just insert some exotic driver


----------



## RikudouGoku

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002632316267.html


Let me guess...this driver doesnt work for buds either?


----------



## furyossa (Jun 12, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002632316267.html
> 
> 
> Let me guess...this driver doesnt work for buds either?


It can work with airpods type of cover or with these that has nozzle https://aliexpress.com/item/1005002690682723.html
You really love piezo so much?


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> It can work with airpods type of cover or with these that has nozzle https://aliexpress.com/item/1005002690682723.html
> You really love piezo so much?


I do and feel like it would be an epic combination with buds.


----------



## aspire5550

Some Info that I found from Faaeal taobao, can't find the Ancestor edition tho.

*Iris 1.0*
Version: Black
Characteristics : the original Iris, also a classic version (listed in 2013). The overall tuning is balanced.

The low frequency is of quality and quantity, and the bass has slam/thump ; the mids is slightly forawrd, the vocal is more close to the ear, warmer(?), the details/texture is considered very good at this price, especially the folk/female voices are especially good; natural treble, the details are average, the tuning is smoother, and overall listening experience is comfortable.

*Iris 2.0*
Version: Black, Black transparent, Bright blue

Same driver as 1.0, he tuning is a continuation of the 1.0 trend. The difference is more functional. Secondly, because of the upgrade of the wire, the overall hearing of 2.0 is slightly more transparent than 1.0

*Iris CE*
Version: White transparent

Brand-new driver, different from 1.0/2.0. Tuning towards the vocals. The pursuit is a better vocal experience at this price.
Sound features: bass is very little, basshead please avoid! ! The vocals are prominent, clean, clear and smooth, slightly warmer(?), and not tired of listening for a long time. The high frequency is brighter than the previous version and the details are better.

*Iris CE*
Version: Grey transparent

Same driver as white Iris CE, tuning follows 1.0/2.0 but a lot of adjustments have been made based on feedback from many listeners of the Iris CE white transparent.

The low frequency continues the characteristics of 1.0/2.0, and the sense of volume is suppressed(?). people who prefer more bass can basically be satisfied. At the same time, the mids and treble shielding(?) is also moderate. The mids  is more prominent. When Aunt Cai’s(a chinese singer famous for her vocal) voice comes out, the thickness and strength of the sound can be intuitively felt, and the sense of details such as ventilation/breath is outstanding. The high frequency part is slightly brighter than 1.0/2.0, and the auditory sense is more exciting and radical. In some songs, it can better show the level and emotion of the song.


----------



## povidlo

aspire5550 said:


> Some Info that I found from Faaeal taobao, can't find the Ancestor edition tho.
> 
> *Iris 1.0*
> Version: Black
> ...


Thanks for sharing.

Reading between the lines: however looking at TB description of 1.0, AE description of Ancestor and the name itself- it seems that Ancestor should be a re-work of 1.0.


----------



## golov17

aspire5550 said:


> Some Info that I found from Faaeal taobao, can't find the Ancestor edition tho.
> 
> *Iris 1.0*
> Version: Black
> ...


OMG.. a lot


----------



## RikudouGoku

Dont worry guys. I will get the other 3 versions of the Iris during the sale next week lol.   

Although version 1.0 doesnt seem to be on sale anymore. I will get the 2.0, Ancestor and the CE grey transparent version.


----------



## aspire5550

povidlo said:


> Thanks for sharing.
> 
> Reading between the lines: however looking at TB description of 1.0, AE description of Ancestor and the name itself- it seems that Ancestor should be a re-work of 1.0.


Not sure, the grey CE also said something about following the trend of 1.0 and 2.0's sound.




RikudouGoku said:


> Dont worry guys. I will get the other 3 versions of the Iris during the sale next week lol.
> 
> Although version 1.0 doesnt seem to be on sale anymore. I will get the 2.0, Ancestor and the CE grey transparent version.



My interpretation is the 1.0 and 2.0 are the same, just maybe different wire. 
Not sure what they mean by "The difference is more functional", is it the accessories?


----------



## RikudouGoku

aspire5550 said:


> Not sure, the grey CE also said something about following the trend of 1.0 and 2.0's sound.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Guess better accessories or maybe it has a mic and the 1.0 didnt have it?


----------



## Sam L

Ronion said:


> The Qian69 arrived today and I think it’s now on the overall leaderboard of ear buds I have.  Very comfortable and no major errors of commission.  It’s not the most exciting sound, but nothing about it annoys me.


interesting. I stayed away from the 69 because of the bizarrely shaped stems and got the 39's instead. the 39 are one of my most comfortable earbuds, so now I'm curious if the 69 is at least as comfortable.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 12, 2021)

Sam L said:


> interesting. I stayed away from the 69 because of the bizarrely shaped stems and got the 39's instead. the 39 are one of my most comfortable earbuds, so now I'm curious if the 69 is at least as comfortable.


The Qian39 is so comfortable that it is perfect as sleeping earbuds.
Therefore, Qian69 is comfortable enough, but not as good as Qian39.
Instead, the sound of the Qian69 is superior to the Qian39 in terms of deep bass and wide soundstage.


----------



## Ronion

Several people have said that the 39 is slightly more comfortable than the 69 and I believe the 39 is the same shell as the VE Lite series.


Sam L said:


> interesting. I stayed away from the 69 because of the bizarrely shaped stems and got the 39's instead. the 39 are one of my most comfortable earbuds, so now I'm curious if the 69 is at least as comfortable.


----------



## Ronion

RikudouGoku said:


> Guess better accessories or maybe it has a mic and the 1.0 didnt have it?


My 2.0 has a mic.  I actually find it to be my second best in the ‘technicalities’ department Of all my ear buds.  It’s certainly a bargain In my mind.  At first I found it a bit dark though enjoyable.  As I listened to it longer, I still find it slightly dark, but because the bass is tight and fairly present and the treble clear and all there, it’s a very enjoyable ear bud to me.  More so than when I first got it.  It does bother me that I can sometimes hear little clicks from the cable moving in the shell.  I’m going to glue it to one wall of the shell and see if that fixes it.


----------



## Ronion

Okay, so my holy terror of an ear bud buying spree is starting to slow now and it seems each new bud is better than they previous.  I got the Ear Buds Anon from Penon Audio and I think I'm now getting into very good/refines treble, tight bass, and a balanced/clear/defined midrange.  These are quite satisfying!  Also a 3-way tie for most comfortable right off the bat.   These might just be it for me.  Penon also has the fastest shipping for me FWIW.  I'd be surprised if when I do my shootout if these do not rise to the top in all categories.  Of course they are also the most costly buds I've got.  Anyone else have these?  I'd love to hear what you make of them compared to some more costly TOTL type buds.  The shootout is going to be more fun than I originally thought.


----------



## sfrsfr

Serge Bernamej said:


> The Zen LL is truly a masterpiece. Comfort in all aspects: sound, ergonomics, etc...
> Perfectly balanced, I'm very impressed.
> I think nothing in audiophile world has been as gratifying as earbuds.
> The Rosemary double foamed is just unbelievable at this price.
> There is no more any monetary obstacles to achiave beautiful audiophile sound.


Did anyone here compare the two versions of VE ZEN LL, Standard and SLQ? Apparently only the cable and color are different. Is there any noticeable difference in sound?

Here are they for order: www.aliexpress.com/item/4000074122440.html


----------



## WoodyLuvr

sfrsfr said:


> Did anyone here compare the two versions of VE ZEN LL, Standard and SLQ? Apparently only the cable and color are different. Is there any noticeable difference in sound?
> 
> Here are they for order: www.aliexpress.com/item/4000074122440.html


I can just barely discern the difference between the VE Zen Lite (300Ω) and LL (150Ω) once they are volume matched... that being the LL is warmer than the Lite but not by a huge margin and it depends on the genre that you are listening to as well.

I honestly am unable to distinguish between the standard version of the Zen LL and the SLQ or even the Limited Edition "Dice".


----------



## sfrsfr (Jun 13, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> I can just barely discern the difference between the VE Zen Lite (300Ω) and LL (150Ω) once they are volume matched... that being the LL is warmer than the Lite but not by a huge margin and it depends on the genre that you are listening to as well.
> 
> I honestly am unable to distinguish between the standard version of the Zen LL and the SLQ or even the Limited Edition "Dice".


That is what I would expect as the cable on the Standard version looks good enough to me.
So I am now considering both, VE Zen Lite (300Ω) and LL (150Ω). I plan to get only one of them for now.
I will drive them with E1DA PowerDac which has enough power for both.


----------



## Ronion

So I've done a lot of back and forth between these buds tonight:  Faaeal Iris 2.0, Faaeal Snow-Lotus Commemorative Edition, Fengru Cat Ear Mimi, Yincrow X6, Qian 69, Fengru DIY  Tingo TC200, and the Ear Buds Anonymous Earbuds.  

It's clear that in all categories; head stage, bass (sub and mid), resolution, midrange, treble, overall tuning, comfort, and imagining, The EA Earbuds are tied for the top or hold that position on their own.  They also cost about double what any of these others do barring Qian 69 and it's still about 50% more than that.
Bass: champ
Mids: too close to call at the moment
Treble: champ
Comfort: Tied with Cat Ear Mimi and the Qian 69
Resolution: Hard to tell between it and the TC200
Tuning: Tied with the Qian 69, but has deeper bass and higher treble
Imaging: too close to call at the moment
Headstage: again, too close to call

Barring comfort, the Mimi is the worst in pretty much every category.  

The EA Earbuds also have the nicest accessories FWIW

This has been interesting and I have a few more on the way that are nearer in price to the EA.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 13, 2021)

sfrsfr said:


> That is what I would expect as the cable on the Standard version looks good enough to me.
> So I am now considering both, VE Zen Lite (300Ω) and LL (150Ω). I plan to get only one of them for now.
> *I will drive them with E1DA PowerDac* which has enough power for both.


Depending on your preferred sound signature and the music genre(s) you listen to you couldn't go wrong with either one really. Venture Electronics makes 'dope' gear. Buy the standard (basic cable) version first and if you really like it upgrade later to the SLQ or if available other Special/Limited Edition for the improvement in cable durability and suppleness rather than for the sound.

You might considering waiting on your purchase as VE will be launching a new middle-tier earbud(s) here shortly as announced by @zhibli06 (Earbuds Lee himself) about two weeks back.


zhibli06 said:


> will be making a lot of our earbud lovers very happy soon btw





zhibli06 said:


> depending on what you meant bro ,it is something that i can sell for 200usd+, but wont.
> i wanna u all stay home as a much as you can, so we will do our bit.
> and in the mean time, making a lot of earbud lovers happy~
> 
> ...


----------



## fonkepala

Ronion said:


> Okay, so my holy terror of an ear bud buying spree is starting to slow now and it seems each new bud is better than they previous.  I got the Ear Buds Anon from Penon Audio and I think I'm now getting into very good/refines treble, tight bass, and a balanced/clear/defined midrange.  These are quite satisfying!  Also a 3-way tie for most comfortable right off the bat.   These might just be it for me.  Penon also has the fastest shipping for me FWIW.  I'd be surprised if when I do my shootout if these do not rise to the top in all categories.  Of course they are also the most costly buds I've got.  Anyone else have these?  I'd love to hear what you make of them compared to some more costly TOTL type buds.  The shootout is going to be more fun than I originally thought.



Yea, the EA buds rock. I particularly like the shell shape. Enjoy!


----------



## Ronion

Thank you!  I have been all day/night.  They are great!


----------



## jogawag (Jun 13, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> I will have a "full report" of the issue posted on this here thread shortly.
> 
> Apparently, there have been a number of these "cable issues" reported over on the Chinese forums which I had completely missed 😭 before my purchase and of course heard about after-the-fact. Drats!


My Onmyoji doesn't seem to arrive at me yet (one month later?).
Still, it may be my trouble next, so I'm interested in your "full report" of the Bell-Ti's "cable issues" and waiting for it.


----------



## RikudouGoku

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002567236834.html

LCP driver...wonder if they can build one for you....


----------



## n00b (Jun 13, 2021)

frick. ordered the chaconne and that damn cursed weeaboo moondrop shanling m3x with the warmer caps. somebody ban me from this forum

i will report back with impressions in a week and a half when the chaconne gets here from japan


----------



## golov17

n00b said:


> frick. ordered the chaconne and that damn cursed weeaboo moondrop shanling m3x with the warmer caps. somebody ban me from this forum
> 
> i will report back with impressions in a week and a half when the chaconne gets here from japan


Temptation 😂


----------



## WoodyLuvr

furyossa said:


> PERFECTO!  Congrats!
> I think it’s superfluous to ask how they sound.
> Is this open here


Apologies, I am behind in answering some questions/posts.
No, just a minor design feature and it appears deeper than in-reality due to a slight optical illusion caused by the lighting.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

jogawag said:


> My Onmyoji doesn't seem to arrive at me yet (one month later?).
> Still, it may be my trouble next, so I'm interested in your "full report" of the Bell-Ti's "cable issues" and waiting for it.


Not ignoring you good sir. I am patiently awaiting the following two (2) items before posting:

additional feedback from some of our audiophile comrades over on erji.net and a few of the other Chinese audiophile forums
return of my Ks Bell-Ti 120Ω earbuds expertly repaired by Wong @ Blur who refused to keep them due to their value but more so because he simply felt bad for me (yes, he is that stellar of a human being indeed!)


----------



## FranQL

WoodyLuvr said:


> return of my Ks Bell-Ti 120Ω earbuds expertly repaired by Wong @ Blur who refused to keep them due to their value but more so because he simply felt bad for me (yes, he is that stellar of a human being indeed!)


I'm really glad to read that.


----------



## jeejack

jeejack said:


> Any comparison between TOTL earbuds vs DIY 130ohm beryllium drivers? I'm very curious. I do not own any TOTL earbuds. The most expensive pair I have is the M2pro with ST10s driver


Anybody? Or vs 400 ohm drivers.


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> Anybody? Or vs 400 ohm drivers.


DIY 500ohm graphene driver is slightly better than DIY 400ohm graphene. Either of these two you choose, you will not regret. 
I own 400ohm and 600ohm beryllium, they both very good, but @Themilkman46290 said that 500ohm is the best of these DIY high impedance drivers.


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Not ignoring you good sir. I am patiently awaiting the following two (2) items before posting:
> 
> additional feedback from some of our audiophile comrades over on erji.net and a few of the other Chinese audiophile forums
> return of my Ks Bell-Ti 120Ω earbuds expertly repaired by Wong @ Blur who refused to keep them due to their value but more so because he simply felt bad for me (yes, he is that stellar of a human being indeed!)


So I'm not the only one who think that way  Anyway... I'm happy that Mr. Wong  "closed the case"


FranQL said:


> I'm really glad to read that.


----------



## jrazmar

I just wonder why the DQSM Turandot is not getting talked about here anymore. I had good earbuds before from the likes of VE Zen 1.0 and 2.0 and Moondrop Liebesleid. I loved them all for quite some time but in the end I sold them one at a time to be able to buy a new bud. Currently, I have the Turandot and it serves me well for 2 years now. Never had the itch to buy another set of earbuds. However, looking at the posts on this thread is like having a drug that invites you to taste and experience something unknown yet exciting.


----------



## baskingshark

jrazmar said:


> I just wonder why the DQSM Turandot is not getting talked about here anymore. I had good earbuds before from the likes of VE Zen 1.0 and 2.0 and Moondrop Liebesleid. I loved them all for quite some time but in the end I sold them one at a time to be able to buy a new bud. Currently, I have the Turandot and it serves me well for 2 years now. Never had the itch to buy another set of earbuds. However, looking at the posts on this thread is like having a drug that invites you to taste and experience something unknown yet exciting.



Haha shhhhhhhh, I think it is a banned brand on headfi.

U can look at @Slater 's signature for more details on which brands/shops cannot be mentioned on headfi.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

jrazmar said:


> I just wonder why the *•*D*•*Q*•*S*•*M*•* Turandot is not getting talked about here anymore. I had good earbuds before from the likes of VE Zen 1.0 and 2.0 and Moondrop Liebesleid. I loved them all for quite some time but in the end I sold them one at a time to be able to buy a new bud. Currently, I have the Turandot and it serves me well for 2 years now. Never had the itch to buy another set of earbuds. However, looking at the posts on this thread is like having a drug that invites you to taste and experience something unknown yet exciting.


Howdy there @jrazmar. Long time no hear (read)!

A couple of reasons... firstly, the brand is *banned*; secondly, many have found the sound signature of the model to be boring and bright; thirdly, time is not always nice to certain models and brands as others... many have moved onto the "next thing".

Personally, I love(d) my Turandots and never had an issue with them sound wise. I found them to be very relaxing, non-fatiguing with excellent frequency response and absolutely no sibilance to speak (and I am extremely sensitive to bright treble). They were highly recommended to me by @ClieOS who also thinks well of them especially for extended listening sessions. This has lead me to wonder if perhaps there were some quality control issues during production and/or even possibly the implementation of different drivers on certain production runs!

They are so well-loved in my home that a little Siamese has stolen them from me and refuses to return them! And she had a pick of an entire collection and choose the Turandots!


----------



## wskl

WoodyLuvr said:


> Howdy there @jrazmar. Long time no hear (read)!
> 
> A couple of reasons... firstly, the brand is *banned*; secondly, many have found the sound signature of the model to be boring and bright; thirdly, time is not always nice to certain models and brands as others... many have moved onto the "next thing".
> 
> ...



I recommend that you do not buy VE's next earbud in case it is stolen again   



Spoiler



Also metal and shiny like the Turandot, this is a photo of the prototype.


----------



## jrazmar (Jun 14, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Haha shhhhhhhh, I think it is a banned brand on headfi.
> 
> U can look at @Slater 's signature for more details on which brands/shops cannot be mentioned on headfi.


Ohhhh. Sorry my bad sir. I have not been active for quite some time now but still doing some reading every now and then the same as a normal head-fier addict.  Noted and will not speak of the unspeakable from now on. hahaha



WoodyLuvr said:


> Howdy there @jrazmar. Long time no hear (read)!
> 
> A couple of reasons... firstly, the brand is *banned*; secondly, many have found the sound signature of the model to be boring and bright; thirdly, time is not always nice to certain models and brands as others... many have moved onto the "next thing".
> 
> ...


Hey, Woody! Yeah nice to see familiar names here after a long time has passed. Some things never get old.

I really loved the Liebesleid - the timbre, the naturalness, the soundstage, vocals and most specially the treble. I have never heard any other earbuds that nailed that dept other than the Moondrop. It's special and unique. Though the bass is quick and tight, I did not mind because the highs are just majestic and spine-tingling sometimes. However, as time went by, I could feel that the earbuds overall is not totally comfortable. The fact that it's kind of bell-shaped and heavyyyyy, it constantly changes its position while I'm wearing it sitting in the office. Definitely not for outdoor walking/gym and traveling. So then I discovered the Turandot via @ClieOS posts here and got curious - you know. It's like a more relaxed and full sounding Liebesleid. Compared to the Moondrop, the bass is more present but still not a basshead earbuds. Still, I missed the treble from Liebesleid but the one from Turandot is no slouch as well. Not just defined and pristine like the Moondrop. Most of all since the shell is PK-like and it's shinyyyy , comfort is very good like any other regular earphones. So from then on my comfort problem was solved and overall sonically the experience is satisfying.

Reading through the more recent posts, it seems that the earbuds contenders have changed a little compared to like 2-3 years ago and the cost of the so-called TOTL is strangely very extravagant (>$200). The ranking is no longer a scene here and the approach is more collaborative now. People are sharing their personal experiences and giving their own personal ranking. Some are just simple while others like that of @RikudouGoku is so much more comprehensive, detailed and organized and I like that.

And on to this unending search of sonic bliss and stay safe always...


----------



## uneri (Jun 24, 2021)

‎


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Personally, I love(d) my Turandots and never had an issue with them sound wise. I found them to be very relaxing, non-fatiguing with excellent frequency response and absolutely no sibilance to speak (and I am extremely sensitive to bright treble). They were highly recommended to me by @ClieOS who also thinks well of them especially for extended listening sessions. This has lead me to wonder if perhaps there were some quality control issues during production and/or even possibly the implementation of different drivers on certain production runs!


I see that many of us have different opinions about certain buds, and yes, we all hear differently, but in this case I think mainly due to inconsistent use of the same drivers, i.e. tuning. This is often noticed with cheap models or small brands. For example HE150 or Tingo TG-38s, I saw some comments which indicate that these earbuds are bright.
Also, I am extremely sensitive to bright treble and sibilant sound, and I can't say the same for these buds. 

I practice that every new pair of buds/IEMs/headphones push through a one-day break-in process before my first impression, and if I found them to be fatiguing (sibilant, bright, etc) then the break-in period is extended to one or two weeks. The result is not the same for all earbuds but in case of Tingo TG-38s, it really helped to reduce sibilance and open the sound even more.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

furyossa said:


> I see that many of us have different opinions about certain buds, and yes, we all hear differently, but in this case I think mainly due to inconsistent use of the same drivers, i.e. tuning. This is often noticed with cheap models or small brands. For example HE150 or Tingo TG-38s, I saw some comments which indicate that these earbuds are bright.
> Also, I am extremely sensitive to bright treble and sibilant sound, and I can't say the same for these buds.
> 
> I practice that every new pair of buds/IEMs/headphones push through a one-day break-in process before my first impression, and if I found them to be fatiguing (sibilant, bright, etc) then the break-in period is extended to one or two weeks. The result is not the same for all earbuds but in case of Tingo TG-38s, it really helped to reduce sibilance and open the sound even more.


Concur, that and preferred music genre as well.


----------



## baskingshark

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur, that and preferred music genre as well.



Concur, and hearing health and source used makes a huge difference. And volume played at (Fletcher Munson curve), which is typically not mentioned.

I think another area that is often not mentioned in reviews/impressions is whether full foams or silicone rings or donut foams, or even no foams were used. These foams or lack thereof definitely affect the sound signature.


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur, that and preferred music genre as well.


Yes, especially that, and the different sources (smartphones, DAC/Amp and DAP devices) as well


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> Concur, and hearing health and source used makes a huge difference. And volume played at (Fletcher Munson curve), which is typically not mentioned.
> 
> I think another area that is often not mentioned in reviews/impressions is whether full foams or silicone rings or donut foams, or even no foams were used. These foams or lack thereof definitely affect the sound signature.


----------



## golov17

jrazmar said:


> I just wonder why the DQSM Turandot is not getting talked about here anymore. I had good earbuds before from the likes of VE Zen 1.0 and 2.0 and Moondrop Liebesleid. I loved them all for quite some time but in the end I sold them one at a time to be able to buy a new bud. Currently, I have the Turandot and it serves me well for 2 years now. Never had the itch to buy another set of earbuds. However, looking at the posts on this thread is like having a drug that invites you to taste and experience something unknown yet exciting.


Turandot are great headphones, I never thought they were boring, the only problem is that metal front covers are not suitable for our winter climate in Russia, so I sold them, and a few Ling from K's.  Hopefully Lee will supply plastic front covers for the upcoming new PK metal case


----------



## jrazmar

golov17 said:


> Turandot are great headphones, I never thought they were boring, the only problem is that metal front covers are not suitable for our winter climate in Russia, so I sold them, and a few Ling from K's.  Hopefully Lee will supply plastic front covers for the upcoming new PK metal case


I see it @golov17. Totally opposite here in the Philippines where it's almost always summertime except when it rains or a typhoon comes and never winter. I agree. Turandot has never been boring but rather resolved yet musical. Then again people have different tastes, varying equipment and use case so only our own ears can tell.


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> DIY 500ohm graphene driver is slightly better than DIY 400ohm graphene. Either of these two you choose, you will not regret.
> I own 400ohm and 600ohm beryllium, they both very good, but @Themilkman46290 said that 500ohm is the best of these DIY high impedance drivers.


I have 400 ohm drivers and I'm waiting to receive the 500 ohms. I wanted a comparison with TOTL earbuds like Yincrow RW, K's etc


----------



## furyossa (Jun 14, 2021)

jrazmar said:


> Totally opposite here in the Philippines where it's almost always summertime except when it rains or a *typhoon* comes


Then I suggest going with heavy metal (not genre) shells, tungsten or brass, 
not because of low resonance, but because of typhoons.
At least you'll be sure they won't fly away


----------



## WoodyLuvr

golov17 said:


> Turandot are great headphones, I never thought they were boring, the only problem is that metal front covers are not suitable for our winter climate in Russia, so I sold them, and a few Ling from K's.  Hopefully Lee will supply plastic front covers for the upcoming new PK metal case





jrazmar said:


> I see it @golov17. Totally opposite here in the Philippines where it's almost always summertime except when it rains or a typhoon comes and never winter. I agree. Turandot has never been boring but rather resolved yet musical. Then again people have different tastes, varying equipment and use case so only our own ears can tell.


Indeed, couldn't agree with you more. I listen to a lot of ambient and Turandot performed admirably.


----------



## jrazmar (Jun 14, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Then I suggest going with heavy metal (not genre) shells, tungsten or brass,
> not because of low resonance, but because of typhoons.
> At least you'll be sure they won't fly away


hahaha. with heavy metal shells, for sure I would be one of the casualties who were not able to run from the storm surge...

Anyone here who have heard the Turandot? Which earbuds have sounded better for you?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

jrazmar said:


> hahaha. with heavy metal shells, for sure I would be one of the casualties who were not able to run from the storm surge...
> 
> Anyone here who have heard the Turandot? Which earbuds have sounded better for you?


Blur and Ks Bell-Ti 120Ω when it was working!


----------



## jrazmar (Jun 14, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Blur and Ks Bell-Ti 120Ω when it was working!


K's Bell-Ti is way out of my budget as of the moment. This Blur where can I check it out? I supposed it is custom-made and not sure if I would want a high impedance earbuds since I don't use a dedicated DAP after I sold my stuff. Pixel phone + Amazon's USB-C mini amp or ES100 + SoundID App is enough for me right now for portability and convenience. My Turandot with the above setup + Koss KPH7G preset sounds very good - impactful, big bass and wide soundstage with smooth yet natural tonality. Listening right now to Alan Walker and some good BTS music.


----------



## ya1950 (Jun 14, 2021)

Starting down the rabbit hole ... Based on RikudouGoku's reviews I got the NiceHCK MX500 which I like a lot. I decided against the Yincrow X6 because I prefer detail over bass. (By way of comparison, my favorite IEM for now is the Etymotic ER2XR. Musical preference is mostly acoustic, classical rock, singer/songwriter).

Of course it doesn't stop there so recently I ordered the Yincrow as well and, as I suspected, comparing the two I do prefer the resolution and clarity (to my ears) of the MX500. So keeping in mind the upcoming AliExpress sale - is there a relatively cheap (under about $30) next step up from the MX500? Or is this as good as it gets in this price range. TIA to anyone who takes the time to answer.


----------



## FranQL

🤔


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> 🤔


What? When? Where? Who?


----------



## ya1950 (Jun 14, 2021)

Double post


----------



## jogawag

jrazmar said:


> hahaha. with heavy metal shells, for sure I would be one of the casualties who were not able to run from the storm surge...
> 
> Anyone here who have heard the Turandot? Which earbuds have sounded better for you?


K's LBBS


----------



## RikudouGoku

ya1950 said:


> Starting down the rabbit hole ... Based on RikudouGoku's reviews I got the NiceHCK MX500 which I like a lot. I decided against the Yincrow X6 because I prefer detail over bass. (By way of comparison, my favorite IEM for now is the Etymotic ER2XR. Musical preference is mostly acoustic, classical rock, singer/songwriter).
> 
> Of course it doesn't stop there so recently I ordered the Yincrow as well and, as I suspected, comparing the two I do prefer the resolution and clarity (to my ears)  of the MX500. So keeping in mind the upcoming AliExpress sale - is there a relatively cheap (under about $30) next step up from the MX500? Or is this as good as it gets in this price range. TIA to anyone who takes the time to answer.


Unfortunately, I dont think you be able to find the upgrade to the MX500 anywhere close to its price....

If you want an upgrade in terms of higher resolution and better technicalities, I say you need to look at the Moondrop Chaconne to get a real upgrade. But you are also sacrificing some bass quantity to get that even with the Chaconne due to the MX500 shell fitting a bit deeper and therefore you get more bass with them. 

So honestly, I would say that the NiceHCK MX500, NiceHCK ME80 and the Yincrow X6 (depending on preferences) are likely to be endgame for a lot of people that dont want to spend like 30x more to get a real upgrade...


----------



## jogawag

RikudouGoku said:


> Unfortunately, I dont think you be able to find the upgrade to the MX500 anywhere close to its price....
> 
> If you want an upgrade in terms of higher resolution and better technicalities, I say you need to look at the Moondrop Chaconne to get a real upgrade. But you are also sacrificing some bass quantity to get that even with the Chaconne due to the MX500 shell fitting a bit deeper and therefore you get more bass with them.
> 
> So honestly, I would say that the NiceHCK MX500, NiceHCK ME80 and the Yincrow X6 (depending on preferences) are likely to be endgame for a lot of people that dont want to spend like 30x more to get a real upgrade...


I think you should try K's LBBS...


----------



## RikudouGoku

jogawag said:


> I think you should try K's LBBS...


Got the Bell-LB, not impressed by it...


----------



## FranQL (Jun 14, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> So honestly, I would say that the NiceHCK MX500, NiceHCK ME80 and the Yincrow X6 (depending on preferences) are likely to be endgame for a lot of people that dont want to spend like 30x more to get a real upgrade...


If this were so ... I would have left the world of buds the first week.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

jrazmar said:


> K's Bell-Ti is way out of my budget as of the moment. This Blur where can I check it out? I supposed it is custom-made and not sure if I would want a high impedance earbuds since I don't use a dedicated DAP after I sold my stuff. Pixel phone + Amazon's USB-C mini amp or ES100 + SoundID App is enough for me right now for portability and convenience. My Turandot with the above setup + Koss KPH7G preset sounds very good - impactful, big bass and wide soundstage with smooth yet natural tonality. Listening right now to Alan Walker and some good BTS music.


I think you are perfectly fine with your Ts. Not like it would be a night & day improvement in any regard.

You can catch up on Blur *here* and *here*. Wong's custom made models range from 16Ω up to 400Ω in either PK or MX shells.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 14, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Got the Bell-LB, not impressed by it...


I think the reputation of Bell-LB(LBB) suggests that LBBS has a very different sound signature.
The LBBS has clear treble and well-defined bass, and I think it has about 70% of the sound performance of the Onmyoji.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jogawag said:


> I think the reputation of Bell-LB(LBB) suggests that LBBS has a very different sound signature.
> The LBBS has clear treble and well-defined bass, and I think it has 70% of the sound performance of the Onmyoji.


Probably, but it is the same shell isnt it? It doesnt fit me that well since it is so small and ligthweight.


----------



## ya1950

RikudouGoku said:


> Unfortunately, I dont think you be able to find the upgrade to the MX500 anywhere close to its price....
> 
> If you want an upgrade in terms of higher resolution and better technicalities, I say you need to look at the Moondrop Chaconne to get a real upgrade. But you are also sacrificing some bass quantity to get that even with the Chaconne due to the MX500 shell fitting a bit deeper and therefore you get more bass with them.
> 
> So honestly, I would say that the NiceHCK MX500, NiceHCK ME80 and the Yincrow X6 (depending on preferences) are likely to be endgame for a lot of people that dont want to spend like 30x more to get a real upgrade...


Thanks so much. You saved me a lot of money - now I can take my wallet and go home .

Thanks for the LBBS suggestion as well. For now I'm going to continue following this thread and enjoying my music!


----------



## jogawag

RikudouGoku said:


> Probably, but it is the same shell isnt it? It doesnt fit me that well since it is so small and ligthweight.


We can't use too big shell earbuds by any means, but we can use small shell earbuds with double foams (donut on full) to make them bigger.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jogawag said:


> We can't use too big shell earbuds by any means, but we can use small shell earbuds with double foams (donut on full) to make them bigger.


Its more because of the weight of it that makes it bad fitting. The Bell-WE is better despite having the same shell because it weights more and therefore feels like it is more "secured" in my ears.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 15, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Its more because of the weight of it that makes it bad fitting. The Bell-WE is better despite having the same shell because it weights more and therefore feels like it is more "secured" in my ears.


So next, I'd like to recommend the ShoonTHESEP-01BL to you.
It's an earbuds that has a nice tight bass with a slightly warm sound.

You can find it at https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32918777225.html

The price is US $26.90, but in my opinion, it has three times better sound quality than Yincrow X6 and I love it.


----------



## baskingshark

jogawag said:


> So next, I'd like to recommend the ShoonTHESEP-01BL to you.
> It's an earbuds that has a nice tight bass with a slightly warm sound.
> 
> You can find it at https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32918777225.html
> ...



Wow how do these chifi companies come up with their naming convention?

I thought urban fun YBF-ISS014 takes the cake for an alphabet soup, but this one is even more majestically named!!

Maybe if it goes cheap at the upcoming sale, I will see if it can be gotten!


----------



## jogawag

baskingshark said:


> Wow how do these chifi companies come up with their naming convention?
> 
> I thought urban fun YBF-ISS014 takes the cake for an alphabet soup, but this one is even more majestically named!!
> 
> Maybe if it goes cheap at the upcoming sale, I will see if it can be gotten!


Probably won't be cheaper on sale, unfortunately, since it is sold by Penon Audio. I also bought it at the regular price.

https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/shoonth-esep-01bl.html


----------



## MelodyMood

jogawag said:


> You will need to order the cable separately for this RY4S Plus.
> 
> Did you not like this MMCX cable I recommended?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002103784716.html
> ...


From the MMCX Earbud, I am thinking to order RY4S Black MMCX Plus version. Which is AUD $10 + shipping. And this above Cable + shipping . Total cost will be around $30. Is there any other cheaper cable with Mic? Also, if Plus version is better than normal one?


----------



## MelodyMood

jogawag said:


> So next, I'd like to recommend the ShoonTHESEP-01BL to you.
> It's an earbuds that has a nice tight bass with a slightly warm sound.
> 
> You can find it at https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32918777225.html
> ...


My Yincrow X6 is broken. The earbuds are fine but Mic is not working anymore.  And Monk+ 3.5mm Plug is also broken. It still works but I can see the inner wires are as the above plastic is broken or something. Not sure if 3.5mm Plug can be replaced easily. I wud love to fix these two instead of buying new ones but not sure how to do. Especially Yincrow X6 as Mic is not working anymore.


----------



## MelodyMood

ya1950 said:


> Thanks so much. You saved me a lot of money - now I can take my wallet and go home .
> 
> Thanks for the LBBS suggestion as well. For now I'm going to continue following this thread and enjoying my music!


How is Nickhck Traceless? Is that good compare to Yincrow X6 or Monk+? 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001007193752.html


----------



## MelodyMood

One more issue I am facing now. My TP16 cable has become so hard now that it is difficult to wear them with comfort and especially roll and place them in the case. Is there any way to make the cable softer?


----------



## FranQL (Jun 15, 2021)

you have this cable with acceptable reviews


https://a.aliexpress.com/_vKu5RN






I have the plus version, the normal one I have not tried, but for the price it is a very great value.


----------



## jogawag

MelodyMood said:


> From the MMCX Earbud, I am thinking to order RY4S Black MMCX Plus version. Which is AUD $10 + shipping. And this above Cable + shipping . Total cost will be around $30. Is there any other cheaper cable with Mic? Also, if Plus version is better than normal one?


Plus version is better than normal one.

And did you not like this MMCX cable I recommended?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002103784716.html

I don't have the MMCX cable with mic, so if you want a different cable, please search for "MMCX cable with mic" in the AliExpress search field.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

FranQL said:


> you have this cable with acceptable reviews
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_vKu5RN
> 
> ...





jogawag said:


> Plus version is better than normal one.
> 
> And did you not like this MMCX cable I recommended?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002103784716.html
> ...


Amazing prices there for what appears to be good quality. Just seems not too long ago mmcx cable prices were simply "highway robbery" most of the time than not!


----------



## jogawag (Jun 15, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Amazing prices there for what appears to be good quality. Just seems not too long ago mmcx cable prices were simply "highway robbery" most of the time than not!


As I recall, @MelodyMood had wanted a red cable, so I recommended this cable to him.

Edit: In his post he writes the following.
"I wanted to buy TY Hi-Z 32 especially the red cable one but none is available with Mic."


----------



## WoodyLuvr

jogawag said:


> As I recall, @MelodyMood wanted a red cable, so I recommended this cable to him.


Yes, and what a nice looking mmcx cable it is with in-line multifunction control and mic. I really wonder what the mic quality is like on this cable?


----------



## MelodyMood

jogawag said:


> As I recall, @MelodyMood wanted a red cable, so I recommended this cable to him.


Not particular about colour. But the cable quality of what you recommended looks better. So I might order that but was just exploring if there is any cheaper, but good options available. Same for Earbud too. But as you suggested Plus version is better so I will order that only.


----------



## MelodyMood

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, and what a nice looking mmcx cable it is with in-line multifunction control and mic. I really wonder what the mic quality is like on this cable?


OpenHeart one or the one suggested by Jogawag?


----------



## FranQL

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, and what a nice looking mmcx cable it is with in-line multifunction control and mic. I really wonder what the mic quality is like on this cable?



I would like to tell you something else, but the reality is that the mmcx cable mic that I have tested are very basic, for use without noise environment.


----------



## jogawag

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, and what a nice looking mmcx cable it is with in-line multifunction control and mic. I really wonder what the mic quality is like on this cable?


As I wrote in my previous post.
"I don't have the MMCX cable with mic,".


----------



## baskingshark

FranQL said:


> I would like to tell you something else, but the reality is that the mmcx cable mic that I have tested are very basic, for use without noise environment.



Do u guys like a mic cable?

I generally found the mic component may be a point of failure down the line. Had a few mic cables die there already. And sometimes the mic add resistance to that side of the cable.

I mean they are convenient for zoom meetings and calls, but for pure music enjoyment, I generally don't get mic cables with my earbuds and iems. Of course different strokes for different folks.


----------



## wskl

MelodyMood said:


> How is Nickhck Traceless? Is that good compare to Yincrow X6 or Monk+?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001007193752.html



In case you don't know, they also sell Type C version of the Traceless
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002795579894.html


----------



## MelodyMood

Yeah. Earbuds are not for sound cancellation purpose. But I use Phone + PowerAmp to listen to the music so need Earbud with Mic only.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

I hope this makes sense


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 15, 2021)

So* Step 1* you click on the "*+ Quote*" for every post you want to include. Once completed *Step 2 *you click "*"Insert Quotes*" (found just under the reply area next to "_Attach Files_") and then choose which (or all) quotes you want to reply to. *Step 3 *you reply. And *Step 4* you click "*Post Reply*"


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 15, 2021)

Sorry guys I thought I was typing & sending this in a DM to a fellow Head-Fier. My apologies; too many windows open. Maybe I should leave it up to help the new guys on the board.


----------



## MelodyMood

FranQL said:


> I would like to tell you something else, but the reality is that the mmcx cable mic that I have tested are very basic, for use without noise environment.





WoodyLuvr said:


> So* Step 1* you click on the "*+ Quote*" for every post you want to include. Once completed *Step 2 *you click "*"Insert Quotes*" (found just under the reply area next to "_Attach Files_") and then choose which (or all) quotes you want to reply to. *Step 3 *you reply. And *Step 4* you click "*Post Reply*"


Is this the right way? And now if I want to remove any msg from the above all, I can click on Remove and reply to the one I wanted. Is that correct?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

MelodyMood said:


> Is this the right way? And now if I want to remove any msg from the above all, I can click on Remove and reply to the one I wanted. Is that correct?


Correct!


----------



## FranQL (Jun 15, 2021)

Error fatal


----------



## FranQL

baskingshark said:


> Do u guys like a mic cable?
> 
> I generally found the mic component may be a point of failure down the line. Had a few mic cables die there already. And sometimes the mic add resistance to that side of the cable.
> 
> I mean they are convenient for zoom meetings and calls, but for pure music enjoyment, I generally don't get mic cables with my earbuds and iems. Of course different strokes for different folks.



a great truth. It is something that does not make much sense but nobody has innovated in this, there is this kind of paradox:

quality sound - garbage microphone

quality microphone - mediocre sound


----------



## jogawag

MelodyMood said:


> OpenHeart one or the one suggested by Jogawag?


Sorry, I don’t remember about posting it to you.


----------



## Alteria

MelodyMood said:


> How is Nickhck Traceless? Is that good compare to Yincrow X6 or Monk+?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001007193752.html



I have the NiceHCK Traceless and Yincrow X6.

They sound pretty similar but the Traceless doesn't have much bass and sounds brighter.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 15, 2021)

Alteria said:


> I have the NiceHCK Traceless and Yincrow X6.
> 
> They sound pretty similar but the Traceless doesn't have much bass and sounds brighter.


FR graphs of Yincrow X6, Nicehck Traceless and Vido by @cenizas.

Graph legend:
Yincrow X6 (green), Nicehck Traceless (purple), Vido (grey)
I like Vido's sound the best.


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> a great truth. It is something that does not make much sense but nobody has innovated in this, there is this kind of paradox:
> 
> quality sound - garbage microphone
> 
> quality microphone - mediocre sound


You know what's paradoxical to me? Questions about comparing earbuds in the price range between $2-3
It’s even worse when someone asks for a recommendation in the price range below $100 and then starts with 
constant questions about comparing earbuds 10 times cheaper.

Don't get me wrong, but seriously, can you really notice such a drastic difference that is worth commenting on.
If you’re new to this hobby, go and buy a few pairs, I don’t think it’s a big expense at all, and check it out for yourself.
This is also good for another reason: check which size suits you and see if the earbuds fit you at all.

My suggestion will always be *RY4S Plus* (budget king), plus you have option to use any cables (with or without a mic)


----------



## WoodyLuvr

jogawag said:


> FR graphs of Yincrow X6, Nicehck Traceless and Vido by @cenizas.
> 
> Graph legend:
> Yincrow X6 (green), Nicehck Traceless (purple), Vido (grey)
> I like Vido's sound the best.


Very telling indeed!


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> You know what's paradoxical to me? Questions about comparing earbuds in the price range between $2-3
> It’s even worse when someone asks for a recommendation in the price range below $100 and then starts with
> constant questions about comparing earbuds 10 times cheaper.
> 
> ...



obvious:

- how much do you want to spend.
- know the setting you need.
- Be clear about what you want, that from € 3-10 to € 100-300 there is a (real) difference.
- If you decide to buy € 3, the risk of being wrong is "none" so choosing one cannot be a life or death dilemma. In addition, buds that have been talked about a lot here have been recommended, the search engine is also a great help to know the opinion of colleagues.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 15, 2021)

FranQL said:


> obvious:
> 
> - how much do you want to spend.
> - know the setting you need.
> ...


That's how simple it is
I will add that between $10 and $100 buds there are so many gems so that most users will be satisfied with it, without any doubt, and as you said, the description of such models can be easily found on this thread


----------



## RikudouGoku

jogawag said:


> So next, I'd like to recommend the ShoonTHESEP-01BL to you.
> It's an earbuds that has a nice tight bass with a slightly warm sound.
> 
> You can find it at https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32918777225.html
> ...


Its from penon so its a nope.






FranQL said:


> a great truth. It is something that does not make much sense but nobody has innovated in this, there is this kind of paradox:
> 
> quality sound - garbage microphone
> 
> quality microphone - mediocre sound


Might be because having a microphone will increase the cable resistance a lot, so it could cause FR changes....maybe...


----------



## povidlo

RikudouGoku said:


> Its from penon so its a nope.


+1

Bad customer service.


----------



## RikudouGoku

povidlo said:


> +1
> 
> Bad customer service.


oh boy, you dont want to know why I am avoiding them now...


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Its from penon so its a nope.





povidlo said:


> +1
> 
> Bad customer service.





RikudouGoku said:


> oh boy, you dont want to know why I am avoiding them now...


I agree with you guys. I waited for my penultimate two orders to be sent from Penon for more than a month, they were in stock but as if they were not so that the total delivery time was two to three months. My last order from May this year arrives in eight days, which is incredible considering that rarely anyone from China sends goods to Serbia today.


----------



## povidlo

RikudouGoku said:


> oh boy, you dont want to know why I am avoiding them now...


Hope it wasn't about trying to influence your review, I know you wouldn't stand for that


----------



## povidlo

furyossa said:


> I agree with you guys. I waited for my penultimate two orders to be sent from Penon for more than a month, they were in stock but as if they were not so that the total delivery time was two to three months. My last order from May this year arrives in eight days, which is incredible considering that rarely anyone from China sends goods to Serbia today.


It sucks since they're exclusive Western distributor for many interesting buds brands that can't be ordered elsewhere.


----------



## RikudouGoku

povidlo said:


> Hope it wasn't about trying to influence your review, I know you wouldn't stand for that


it was worse than that...








I wanted the TSMR 4 pro, but just missed the sale that was only a few days ago (it was at 280 usd), I only got 10% off (paid 300 usd). Asked if I could get a review unit if I reviewed it, got denied and said they didnt have any more discounts to provide. I bought it anyway since I actually wanted it. 


A few weeks later.....




Yeah, I killed it. Sounds really bad and massively overpriced (beaten by BA iems at 3x cheaper). 








Then a few months later, someone got a review unit and praised it a lot....

Yeah, penon seriously sent out a review unit to try to salvage its reputation. After they told me they didnt have any bigger discounts or units to give me. A blatant lie. 

This was not the only bs they have done. I have tried to contact them because I was interested in their iems, here via PM and also mailed them, I got NO REPLY.   

Thats why they are blacklisted, they only send stuff out to their damn shills.....


----------



## furyossa

BTW... ShoonTHESEP-01BL is an excellent pair of buds for the money, but you can find it only on Penon store or maybe  Taobao
They have fast bass response, good clarity, and wide soundstage with great imaging. 
But the cable is bad quality so if you don't know how to swap stock cable I will not recommend this version but another 150ohm version ShoonTH ESEP-01BLE.
Another option will be to order from NSC store this driver, shell, and cable (or this one), roll up your sleeves and put together your own pair. 
Of course don't expect to get 100% of the same earbuds because ShoonTH chose the best components and professionally tuned this model
Here you can see how they look inside


----------



## FranQL (Jun 15, 2021)

furyossa said:


> BTW... ShoonTHESEP-01BL is an excellent pair of buds for the money, but you can find it only on Penon store or maybe  Taobao
> They have fast bass response, good clarity, and wide soundstage with great imaging.
> But the cable is bad quality so if you don't know how to swap stock cable I will not recommend this version but another 150ohm version ShoonTH ESEP-01BLE.
> Another option will be to order from NSC store this driver, shell, and cable (or this one), roll up your sleeves and put together your own pair.
> ...



😂😂😅

so if I want to try it I am condemned to buy the expensive model ...

damn!!!!!


----------



## jogawag (Jun 15, 2021)

FranQL said:


> 😂😂😅
> 
> so if I want to try it I am condemned to buy the expensive model ...
> 
> damn!!!!!


The cable of The SHOONTH ESEP-01BL is just a little stiff, but not so stiff that it is unusable.

The bass performance and wide soundstage are great attractions that more than make up for the cable.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 15, 2021)

FranQL said:


> 😂😂😅
> 
> so if I want to try it I am condemned to buy the expensive model ...
> 
> damn!!!!!


No no   You didn't understand me, if you want to try it then go for a DIY solution or ShoonTH ESEP-01BL (32ohm).
ShoonTH ESEP-01BLE is not just the 150ohm version. They use 32ohm driver also but first to make 150ohm version they need to check that both drivers not have
channel imbalance and then add resistor (120ohm and this is not easy task), and after that goes tuning (ShoonTH tuning is definitely not to be underestimated).
In addition to this they use Furukawa cable which in my estimation is about 5 times better than this $hity stock cable on ESEP-01BL.
Do you really think that your PK1 150ohm "transparent film" with "goddess" cable will sound the same with $1 cable? 
And yes, I'm not totally sure that the $120 price is justified (maybe $100) but we have similar situation with other buds in this price range category.
In any case, pulling the trigger is not easy in this hobby
That's why we have


----------



## furyossa (Jun 15, 2021)

jogawag said:


> The cable of The SHOONTH ESEP-01BL is just a little stiff, but not so stiff that it is unusable.
> 
> The bass performance and wide soundstage are great attractions that more than make up for the cable.


I agree with you 100% It is usable for $1 cable, no doubt.  But this pair definitely deserves better cables
In addition to bass performance and wide soundstage, the precise imaging is the another thing that I like on this pair.
Also, because they seal vents on one side the sound is more intimate, and you receive less external noise


----------



## jogawag (Jun 15, 2021)

FranQL said:


> 😂😂😅
> 
> so if I want to try it I am condemned to buy the expensive model ...
> 
> damn!!!!!


Additional information.
The SHOONTH ESEP-01BL's the DP100 type shells of are thinner than the MX500 type shells and fit more comfortably in the ear.


----------



## vygas

So I've recently encountered some channel imbalance on my ME80, I didn't have the hindsight to actually buy a spare when the last 3-4 popped up on aliexpress last year. Anyone know of a fairly similar sounding earbud or possibly even an upgrade to it?


----------



## RikudouGoku

vygas said:


> So I've recently encountered some channel imbalance on my ME80, I didn't have the hindsight to actually buy a spare when the last 3-4 popped up on aliexpress last year. Anyone know of a fairly similar sounding earbud or possibly even an upgrade to it?


Faaeal Iris CE, its similar but it is a downgrade.


----------



## furyossa

For those interested in how to install smaller drivers in the MX500 shells, this is the solution
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002360064453.html
*warning*... don't think about perverted things this is not intended for that use 






*BUT...*
Take for example @RikudouGoku favorite driver  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002632316267.html





Here we have two major problems to note
These wires are too exposed and unprotected and likely to have direct contact with the ring. This can be solved with electrical tape
But the bigger problem is the thickness. The driver cover is too shallow and the vent construction on the inside, where the filter is placed, will not allow driver insertion.





One of the solution (need to be tested) can be this type of shells (convex arc head) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000808713210.html


----------



## vygas

RikudouGoku said:


> Faaeal Iris CE, its similar but it is a downgrade.


Yeahhh I've heard it fairly grainy so I definitely want to stay away from it, I might just end up buying replacement ME80 drivers and try find a shell that would make them sound similar to the OG. Still, I'll keep it in mind.


----------



## RikudouGoku

vygas said:


> Yeahhh I've heard it fairly grainy so I definitely want to stay away from it, I might just end up buying replacement ME80 drivers and try find a shell that would make them sound similar to the OG. Still, I'll keep it in mind.


The ME80 is better than the CE. But it is the closest to it from the buds I have heard.


----------



## vygas (Jun 15, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> The ME80 is better than the CE. But it is the closest to it from the buds I have heard.


I mean it would make sense, I was told both have the same PCB but with a different diaphragm.

Correction : Iris 1.0 PCB is actually closer to the ME80's PCB


----------



## RikudouGoku

vygas said:


> I mean it would make sense, I was told both have the same PCB but with a different diaphragm.


That I didnt know lol. 

Its also 3x cheaper than the ME80, I cant complain about it. Its great value. 

But we see if the other 3 versions are better since I will order them during the sale.


----------



## baskingshark

vygas said:


> So I've recently encountered some channel imbalance on my ME80, I didn't have the hindsight to actually buy a spare when the last 3-4 popped up on aliexpress last year. Anyone know of a fairly similar sounding earbud or possibly even an upgrade to it?



What's your budget?


----------



## vygas (Jun 15, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> What's your budget?


70-100usd would probably be where I'd look for, the main things I liked about the ME80 were the separation, treble just how clean they managed to sound whilst having a fairly large amount bass (and having good bass response in general)


----------



## jogawag (Jun 16, 2021)

vygas said:


> 70-100usd would probably be where I'd look for, the main things I liked about the ME80 were the separation, treble just how clean they managed to sound whilst having a fairly large amount bass (and having good bass response in general)


I recommend the Ks LBBS to you as it matches your preferred sound characteristics and badget.

ILBBS is the first choice for the color options on the following page.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html



Edit: However, please use double foam (donut foam on full foam), if the LBBS shells are small for you. Then you will never fall out your ears while walking.


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> I recommend the Ks LBBS to you as it matches your preferred sound characteristics.
> However, please use double foam (donut foam on full foam).
> 
> It is the first choice for the color options on the following page.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html


You wrapped them in foam, as if it were snowing outside


----------



## siderak

I see that general impressions on the Fiio  Em5’s are that they sound slightly rolled off. 
Wondering if anyone has used them without foams and if that helps extend the top end.


----------



## MelodyMood

wskl said:


> In case you don't know, they also sell Type C version of the Traceless
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002795579894.html


My phone has 3.5mm Jack so Type C is not required. Also, Sound Quality can be at the lowest level for Type C Phones. Type C is for Data Transfer and not for Music/Sound. So it just ruins the sound quality to the poorest level. That is why I recently bought S10+ Phone and not useless and piece of junk Type C


----------



## MelodyMood

Alteria said:


> I have the NiceHCK Traceless and Yincrow X6.
> 
> They sound pretty similar but the Traceless doesn't have much bass and sounds brighter.


Ok. Then not for me. I like Good Bass. Especially if Deep Bass and Warm Sound. I do like or want good clarity and details in the sound but should be warm and not ear-piercing sound. Unfortunately, any earbud with very much details and clarity, does not have warm sound and no bass usually.


----------



## MelodyMood

MelodyMood said:


> My Yincrow X6 is broken. The earbuds are fine but Mic is not working anymore.  And Monk+ 3.5mm Plug is also broken. It still works but I can see the inner wires are as the above plastic is broken or something. Not sure if 3.5mm Plug can be replaced easily. I wud love to fix these two instead of buying new ones but not sure how to do. Especially Yincrow X6 as Mic is not working anymore.





MelodyMood said:


> One more issue I am facing now. My TP16 cable has become so hard now that it is difficult to wear them with comfort and especially roll and place them in the case. Is there any way to make the cable softer?


Any suggestion for the above posts? How can I soften the Cable or fix the plug issue in Monk+? I do not think there is any way to actually fix the X6 broken Mic.


----------



## MelodyMood (Jun 16, 2021)

For quite some time, I have been searching for TY-Hi Z 32 Ohms Earbuds with Mic.  Especially the one which comes in Red Colour Cable. But neither I could find that one or any TY-Hi Z 32 one. Can anyone suggest if there is any available somewhere? I remember long ago it was there on Penon Audio with Mic option but I did not order and now I cannot see any. Also, Any TY-Hi Z Earbud with Mic which has good sound and upgrade to TP-16 or so?

There is a thread on TY Hi-Z Family also: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/introduction-to-ty-hi-z-earbud-family-mega-review.831374/


----------



## jao29 (Jun 16, 2021)

The Yincrow X6 has been my most satisfying audio purchase for the last 5 years. The price of the X6 and the sound quality you get in return is absolutely phenomenal. I liked them so much I bought two more. Lol The only audio related item I bought twice are the Jvc Fxt-90’s and the Grado SR-60’s. I won’t mind if Yincrow made a slightly expensive version of the X6 that improves on the cable quality, as those are the only thing that worry me about the long term durability of the earbuds.


----------



## aspire5550

Hi, Anyone can share about the differences with Tingo TG-38s vs Yincrow x6? I am able to get them at around the same price. Don't want too many earbuds as I feel bad if i leave them unused.


----------



## digititus

jao29 said:


> I won’t mind if Yincrow made a slightly expensive version of the X6 that improves on the cable quality, as those are the only thing that worry me about the long term durability of the earbuds.


It's called the RW9


----------



## RikudouGoku

digititus said:


> It's called the RW9


Its more V-shaped though (and the X6 sounds better IMO) but yes the cable is definitely better on the RW-9.


----------



## jao29

digititus said:


> It's called the RW9


Yup. I have them both and I prefer the X6 over the Rw9.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 16, 2021)

I've been wondering for a long time, but why do Yincrow X6 have so many enthusiastic fans (also in my country)?

I also bought the X6 twice because I was worried about the posts of enthusiastic fans, but soon I got tired of it and stopped listening.

Is that intense bass on the X6 causing excitement? But if it's just about bass, Vido will be enough, so I don't know why.

What do you guys think is the reason why Yincrow X6 has so many enthusiastic fans?


----------



## 1Q84

jogawag said:


> I've been wondering for a long time, but why do Yincrow X6 have so many enthusiastic fans (also in my country)?
> 
> I also bought the X6 twice because I was worried about the posts of enthusiastic fans, but soon I got tired of it and stopped listening.
> 
> ...


Probably due to accessibility I think. They are easier to buy compared to the Kube V1 which are known to be Vido Killers. The Kube V1, SQ wise are far more superior in all frequency and technicalities than the X6 or even EQ'ed X6, IMO.


----------



## digititus

RikudouGoku said:


> Its more V-shaped though (and the X6 sounds better IMO) but yes the cable is definitely better on the RW-9.


I prefer RW-9 but only because I have 4 pairs of them. I doubt I could tell them apart in a DB test


----------



## RikudouGoku (Jun 16, 2021)

Smabat M2S Pro:
















Cable measuring at 0.57 ohm.
Only 1 pair of full foam and 1 pair of donut foam though and no cases/bags. (accessories are pretty lacking.)



Smabat Super One:



























A lot better packaging but still lacking in accessories (only 1 pair of full foam, donut foam and silicone cover) although you do get a pouch and 2 cables, 1 with mic  (0.73 ohms, C tier) and 1 without a mic in 2.5mm (0.28 ohms, close to B tier)








I also got 2 of these USB-C dongles...I didnt ask for them nor did I buy them. Guess they gave me these as gifts.


----------



## digititus

RikudouGoku said:


> Smabat Super One:


Smart Bat! Like it


----------



## RikudouGoku

digititus said:


> Smart Bat! Like it


yeah, noticed it on the Super one but it isnt on the M2S Pro...maybe a typo?


----------



## povidlo

RikudouGoku said:


> yeah, noticed it on the Super one but it isnt on the M2S Pro...maybe a typo?


M0 also says Smart Bat. New branding?

Unfortunately my M0 arrived with one driver dead.


----------



## RikudouGoku

povidlo said:


> M0 also says Smart Bat. New branding?
> 
> Unfortunately my M0 arrived with one driver dead.


Maybe...

but Rip your unit.


----------



## povidlo

RikudouGoku said:


> Maybe...
> 
> but Rip your unit.


On positive note, the drivers are swappable. I ordered Smabat's 32ohm and 40ohm drivers to try inside M0. Unfortunately M0's stock 20 ohm drivers are currently not available for sale.


----------



## jao29

jogawag said:


> I've been wondering for a long time, but why do Yincrow X6 have so many enthusiastic fans (also in my country)?
> 
> I also bought the X6 twice because I was worried about the posts of enthusiastic fans, but soon I got tired of it and stopped listening.
> 
> ...


It’s due to the fact that it’s bass is amazing for an earbud while the mids and highs are not veiled, which is an accomplishment in itself. 😊


----------



## jao29

digititus said:


> I prefer RW-9 but only because I have 4 pairs of them. I doubt I could tell them apart in a DB test


The Rw9 to my ears have slightly less bass and veiled mids which resulted in them being v-shaped. This is weird as you would expect that a less bassier earbud would be a tad cleaner and neutral sounding. The X6 has the bigger bass quantity/quantity while having clearer mids. Both are great earbuds imo and the RW9 has the better cable, but if we are talking about sound quality, the X6 has the Rw9 beat.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 16, 2021)

jao29 said:


> It’s due to the fact that it’s bass is amazing for an earbud while the mids and highs are not veiled, which is an accomplishment in itself. 😊


But isn't that the same thing with Vido?
Why X6?


----------



## jao29

jogawag said:


> But isn't that the same thing with Vido?
> Why X6?


I haven’t heard the Vido’s yet. But I do keep seeing on forums that they have and use the same drivers with the X6.


----------



## jogawag

RikudouGoku said:


> Smabat M2S Pro:
> ....


Could you please use a spoiler or something to hide the uselessly huge group of pictures in your post?

You may be so excited that you don't realize it, but it's just very annoying to most of the people who see this page.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jogawag said:


> Could you please use a spoiler or something to hide the uselessly huge group of pictures in your post?
> 
> You may be so excited that you don't realize it, but it's just very annoying to most of the people who see this page.


First time anyone ever said that to me.

But I keep it in mind.


----------



## n00b

jogawag said:


> Could you please use a spoiler or something to hide the uselessly huge group of pictures in your post?
> 
> You may be so excited that you don't realize it, but it's just very annoying to most of the people who see this page.


i think that's a needlessly aggressive way to word that request. i personally appreciate seeing real life photos of products that seemed to exist only as renders on many vendor pages. Ri provides a lot of value and insight to this thread


----------



## jogawag

jao29 said:


> I haven’t heard the Vido’s yet. But I do keep seeing on forums that they have and use the same drivers with the X6.


Vido has clearer treble, it's cheaper, and it's an original that should be respected.
You should buy one of the Vido's and compare it to the X6.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 16, 2021)

n00b said:


> i think that's a needlessly aggressive way to word that request. i personally appreciate seeing real life photos of products that seemed to exist only as renders on many vendor pages. Ri provides a lot of value and insight to this thread


I'm well aware that @RikudouGoku has made some great posts.
I'm just complaining about the "uselessly huge group of pictures".

Not everyone is looking at this thread with a device that has enough power to view them easily.

*Edit: By "uselessly huge group of pictures", I mean a group of 18 pictures that are about 4 MByte each, 
       for a total of 172 MByte pictures.
　　It took me about 15 minutes to finish viewing them on my underpowered Core i7 PC...*


----------



## jao29

jogawag said:


> Vido has clearer treble, it's cheaper, and it's an original that should be respected.
> You should buy one of the Vido's and compare it to the X6.


Ill let you know if I get a hold of one. The only thing that’s holding me back is the flimsy looking cable. I’ve heard that it’s asymmetrical too haha. Still, it is relatively cheap and I think there’s nothing wrong with buying one piece of Vido. 😊


----------



## golov17

jao29 said:


> Ill let you know if I get a hold of one. The only thing that’s holding me back is the flimsy looking cable. I’ve heard that it’s asymmetrical too haha. Still, it is relatively cheap and I think there’s nothing wrong with buying one piece of Vido. 😊


Buy this 
US $2.92  21%OFF | Vido Red Earbuds In Ear Earphone Earbud Dynamic Flat Head Plug Earbud HIFI Bass Earbud MX500 Black With Mic
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mO8aysH


----------



## jogawag

jao29 said:


> Ill let you know if I get a hold of one. The only thing that’s holding me back is the flimsy looking cable. I’ve heard that it’s asymmetrical too haha. Still, it is relatively cheap and I think there’s nothing wrong with buying one piece of Vido. 😊


The latest "DIY Vido" has a symmetrical cable.
If you want any color, the "red" DIY Vido is said to sound better.


----------



## furyossa

golov17 said:


> Buy this
> US $2.92  21%OFF | Vido Red Earbuds In Ear Earphone Earbud Dynamic Flat Head Plug Earbud HIFI Bass Earbud MX500 Black With Mic
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mO8aysH


Please don't mention cable with mic anymore


----------



## HombreCangrejo

I received yesterday my M2s Pro unit. First, the bad: I don't understand how they have thought and designed the replaceable dampers system. Putting one in place is a nightmare, if you have to use the gripper included in the box. Second, the so-so. The cable is not bad, but is not particularly good. At least, the chin works. I have nothing to say about accesories, as they're almost non existent.

Finally, the really good things: all that is related to sound. Initially, I was feeling they lacked bass, and some high-mids peak was starting to killing me. Fortunatelly, I removed the stock dumper and now, without one, I think they're great. A real upgrade over my beloved RY4S Plus (yes, 5x the price if you add a basic cable to the Plus, I know), in the sense that they're more refined, with more resolution and a wider soundstage. I feel these could really be my endgame in earbuds, provided I will also buy the 10s Gold and Super One drivers. I already have a lot of IEMs, and what I don't want to do is to start making another huge collection of buds.

I haven't tried to use the driver replacement mechanism, but seems it won't be same story that with dampers. Opening an closing the shell is really easy.


----------



## RikudouGoku

HombreCangrejo said:


> I received yesterday my M2s Pro unit. First, the bad: I don't understand how they have thought and designed the replaceable dampers system. Putting one in place is a nightmare, if you have to use the gripper included in the box. Second, the so-so. The cable is not bad, but is not particularly good. At least, the chin works. I have nothing to say about accesories, as they're almost non existent.
> 
> Finally, the really good things: all that is related to sound. Initially, I was feeling they lacked bass, and some high-mids peak was starting to killing me. Fortunatelly, I removed the stock dumper and now, without one, I think they're great. A real upgrade over my beloved RY4S Plus (yes, 5x the price if you add a basic cable to the Plus, I know), in the sense that they're more refined, with more resolution and a wider soundstage. I feel these could really be my endgame in earbuds, provided I will also buy the 10s Gold and Super One drivers. I already have a lot of IEMs, and what I don't want to do is to start making another huge collection of buds.
> 
> I haven't tried to use the driver replacement mechanism, but seems it won't be same story that with dampers. Opening an closing the shell is really easy.


What gripper? I didnt get anything like that in my unit.







As for the high-mid peak, its very likely because of a 3k peak that exists there.


----------



## HombreCangrejo

RikudouGoku said:


> What gripper? I didnt get anything like that in my unit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I bought the dampers box.


----------



## RikudouGoku

HombreCangrejo said:


> I bought the dampers box.


oh ok.


----------



## furyossa

HombreCangrejo said:


> I already have a lot of IEMs, and what I don't want to do is to start making another huge collection of buds.





HombreCangrejo said:


> I bought the dampers box.



And now is too late. Welcome!  BTW also check DIY Earbuds thread from time to time


----------



## n00b (Jun 16, 2021)

Chaconne came in, thought they were DOA because apparently as I inserted one of them I must have flexed the driver. I pressed it up further into my ear canal and heard a click, then suddenly I had some bass response. Is this normal with this kind of design? Not inspiring confidence lol. For how well built they seem to be built, and how hefty they are, they also feel like delicate or I need to baby them. I can get them to fit but not at an optimal angle for the best seal when worn wires down. They're fine worn over the ear but I worry about the longevity of the cable at the base of the housing, given this is a non-replaceable cable at $330 USD x___X

Immediate impression is that their resolution, detail retrieval, airiness, soundstage, separation beats the EBX21 and ME80. Beats EBX21 at low end extension and some rumble, I think it doesn't sound as thick as ME80 but I'd have to go back and test that more thoroughly. Midbass is fast, clear, precise, has enough impact but doesn't feel aggressive or thumpy. I don't want to say it's restrained, but I will say it doesn't interfere with clarity of vocals and doesn't feel overpowering.

Forgive me here as I lack the experience and vocabulary to articulate some of this but.. the vocal presentation seems forward but not in a shouty way, but in an intimate way, with an organic quality to it, like a sense of air or breath, intent and emotion (like Joyce Wrice here at 2m39s). I think things only get fatiguing to listen to with female vocals and a treble heavy arrangement/lots going on in the song, it might be because of the clarity or separation but it's a lot for my two brain cells to process on some tracks (Chloe x Halle - Don't Make It Harder on Me). Male vocals are similarly clear and natural with that sense of air and emotion. Again, not sure of terminology here but I would say vocals are neutral in tone and natural in timbre as in, it sounds accurate and realistic and lifelike? In any case. vocals are great. I think this quality extends to instruments as well, for better or worse, like being able to hear the squeak of fingers sliding up and down a guitar neck.

I know it's cliche and at risk of being placebo because I paid like $30 -> $160 -> $275 upgrading from ME80 -> EBX21 -> Chaconne but I "hear things I've never heard before in my favorite songs." Just like twinkly/sparkly sounds like bells or piano keys in the production were more clear and separate in the Chaconne. I also notice very faint echoing/reverberation effects on female vocals in some r&b and ballads that I didn't hear before in buds with worse resolution and separation.

To sum this up, it performs like someone who takes their job seriously and wants to deliver precise, detailed, accurate work but doesn't want to come off as flashy or trying too hard. Things are balanced and clear and if you listen closely you'll know that person is passionate about their work and a master at their craft, but doesn't want to let their ego get in the way or impart their personality in the work. Keeping with this analogy it's hard to describe the Chaconne as having its own interesting character, but it doesn't seem cold or analytical in that sense. It's not like a robot or AI taking your job, it's still a (probably) nice coworker who keeps to themselves. It's not boring to listen to, maybe the opposite -- you are so engaged and impressed with how accurate things sound that you just want to keep listening. You know how some people think they're so interesting and won't shut up and you just want to ignore them (like maybe me writing this) vs someone who's quiet and mysterious but so insightful and truly engaging without trying? The Chaconne is like the latter.

My complaints are probably going to be not sound related. Fit is better than EBX21, maybe about same as ME80, not as easy/comfortable as plastic MX500. The weight of Ti/Brass can be mitigated by wearing over the ear, but again, that raises concerns for longevity of the cable. In fact, I feel immediate fatigue wearing them wires down. The driver flex thing is worrisome also. I guess I also worry about keeping the polished ti from scratching, since Ti is still a soft metal. I'm finding a single full foam works well for fit, comfort, low end and clarity.

Anyway, don't take this as a proper review or anything, it's literally just me typing as I listen at my desk after unboxing them. I'll see how I feel about them once the honeymoon period is over, but let me tell you, going into this I was so very hoping I wouldn't hear any difference from my EBX21 and ME80 (which, by the way, between the two, the jump isn't that big. From ME80 to Chaconne is another story) so I could return them haha.

edit: oh god i am hearing backing vocals and other sounds that my other buds could not distinguish before, i feel like i am being haunted by ghosts using paranormal monitoring equipment


----------



## RikudouGoku

n00b said:


> Chaconne came in, thought they were DOA because apparently as I inserted one of them I must have flexed the driver. I pressed it up further into my ear canal and heard a click, then suddenly I had some bass response. Is this normal with this kind of design? Not inspiring confidence lol. For how well built they seem to be built, and how hefty they are, they also feel like delicate or I need to baby them. I can get them to fit but not at an optimal angle for the best seal when worn wires down. They're fine worn over the ear but I worry about the longevity of the cable at the base of the housing, given this is a non-replaceable cable at $330 USD x___X
> 
> Immediate impression is that their resolution, detail retrieval, airiness, soundstage, separation beats the EBX21 and ME80. Beats EBX21 at low end extension and some rumble, I think it doesn't sound as thick as ME80 but I'd have to go back and test that more thoroughly. Midbass is fast, clear, precise, has enough impact but doesn't feel aggressive or thumpy. I don't want to say it's restrained, but I will say it doesn't interfere with clarity of vocals and doesn't feel overpowering.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you like them then.   

But any kind of driver flex should be straight up impossible with buds...


----------



## HombreCangrejo

furyossa said:


> And now is too late. Welcome!  BTW also check DIY Earbuds thread from time to time



You're a very very bad person, my friend. A journey in the DIY thread could end in divorce, you know...


----------



## n00b

RikudouGoku said:


> Sounds like you like them then.
> 
> But any kind of driver flex should be straight up impossible with buds...


yeah, I really thought the cable was broken or something because I had super obvious channel imbalance and no bass on one bud. I tried it without foams, tried switching ears to see if it was a fit issue, but it persisted and was clear. Then I just kinda.. shoved it into my ear and heard a click, then suddenly full luscious sound. I don't want to attempt to recreate it though. Maybe it isn't flex (I'm a n00b with a 2005 join date and don't know all the terminology yet), but it felt like when you press a bare driver and it pops/dents in. anyway, it's resolved for now


----------



## waynes world (Jun 16, 2021)

furyossa said:


> BTW... ShoonTHESEP-01BL is an excellent pair of buds for the money, but you can find it only on Penon store or maybe  Taobao
> They have fast bass response, good clarity, and wide soundstage with great imaging.
> But the cable is bad quality so if you don't know how to swap stock cable I will not recommend this version but another 150ohm version ShoonTH ESEP-01BLE.
> Another option will be to order from NSC store this driver, shell, and cable (or this one), roll up your sleeves and put together your own pair.
> ...





jogawag said:


> The cable of The SHOONTH ESEP-01BL is just a little stiff, but not so stiff that it is unusable.
> 
> The bass performance and wide soundstage are great attractions that more than make up for the cable.





furyossa said:


> I agree with you 100% It is usable for $1 cable, no doubt.  But this pair definitely deserves better cables
> In addition to bass performance and wide soundstage, the precise imaging is the another thing that I like on this pair.
> Also, because they seal vents on one side the sound is more intimate, and you receive less external noise



I concur with all of the above. Love the Shoonth ESEP-01BL sound, but not so much the cable. Below is an image of me holding up my pair. Just a little bit stiff lol! But that doesn't stop me from using them every night in bed.


----------



## furyossa

HombreCangrejo said:


> You're a very very bad person, my friend. A journey in the DIY thread could end in divorce, you know...


No man, there are a lot of good guys there, married of course.
You can also get advice on how to make your DIY model that you can give as a gift to your lady 
That's not a bad thing, right?


----------



## RikudouGoku

waynes world said:


> I concur with all of the above. Love the Shoonth ESEP-01BL sound, but not so much the cable. Below is an image of me holding up my pair. Just a little bit stiff lol! But that doesn't stop me from using them every night in bed.


I see its defying gravity lol.


----------



## n00b

also the chaconne will be around 280 after coupons/before tax during the ali summer sale: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33040362551.html

in the meantime somebody convince me to remove the yincrow rw-2000 and x6s from my cart now that i have the chaconne..


----------



## RikudouGoku

n00b said:


> also the chaconne will be around 280 after coupons/before tax during the ali summer sale: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33040362551.html
> 
> in the meantime somebody convince me to remove the yincrow rw-2000 and x6s from my cart now that i have the chaconne..


the Chaconne and those 2 are very different...no reason not to have them as well. But the X6 is the better complement to the Chaconne. So at least get that one.


----------



## jogawag

RikudouGoku said:


> the Chaconne and those 2 are very different...no reason not to have them as well. But the X6 is the better complement to the Chaconne. So at least get that one.


Have you ever listened to DIY Vido?
If you haven't, why are you so confident in recommending the more expensive X6 instead of DIY Vido?


----------



## RikudouGoku

jogawag said:


> Have you ever listened to DIY Vido?
> If you haven't, why are you so confident in recommending the more expensive X6 instead of DIY Vido?


No I havent heard the Vido nor will I get it. Not a fan of paying 10x more with the damn import fee. At least when I ordered the X6, I got a lot of other products along with it, so the import fee didnt feel as bad then...


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> Have you ever listened to DIY Vido?
> If you haven't, why are you so confident in recommending the more expensive X6 instead of DIY Vido?


Can you post the link? I didn't saw DIY Vido


----------



## jogawag

furyossa said:


> Can you post the link? I didn't saw DIY Vido


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983248376.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32836571689.html


----------



## jogawag (Jun 16, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> No I havent heard the Vido nor will I get it. Not a fan of paying 10x more with the damn import fee. At least when I ordered the X6, I got a lot of other products along with it, so the import fee didnt feel as bad then...


BTW, would you be interested in the Yincrow X6 with MMCX support?
I feel it's closest to the original X6 when I use OFC cables, and when I use silver plated cables, I feel the soundstage is wider, so changing cables with MMCX is fun.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jogawag said:


> BTW, would you be interested in the Yincrow X6 with MMCX support?
> I feel it's closest to the original X6 when I use OFC cables, and when I use silver plated cables, I feel the soundstage is wider, so changing cables with MMCX is fun.


That is epic. Too bad it doesnt seeem like anyone makes buds with mmcx connectors besides Yincrow and smabat.....


----------



## furyossa

Your mod?
So you said that DIY Vido is similar to X6? Do you think that they use the same driver with different tuning?


----------



## jogawag

furyossa said:


> Your mod?
> So you said that DIY Vido is similar to X6? Do you think that they use the same driver with different tuning?


Yes, that's my mod.
I think that they use the same driver with different tuning.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> That is epic. Too bad it doesnt seeem like anyone makes buds with mmcx connectors besides Yincrow and smabat.....


Also, RY4S. MMCX mod is very simple to do, but to be honest it seems very ugly (disrupts aesthetics). 
This type of mmcx implementation is good starting point for MX500 shells.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 16, 2021)

jogawag said:


> Yes, that's my mod.
> I think that they use the same driver with different tuning.


Apparently they had to start from something.
But the price difference is fascinating, maybe they use some kind of very expensive cotton filters we don't know about


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Apparently they had to start somewhere.
> But the price difference is fascinating, maybe they use some kind of very expensive cotton filters we don't know about


IMO it doesn't matter if they use the same driver as long as the x6 justifies the higher price by sounding better.

Another example would be with the tanchjim oxygen vs the blon 03, same driver but like a 10x price difference between them and they sound drastically different.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 16, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> IMO it doesn't matter if they use the same driver as long as the x6 justifies the higher price by sounding better.
> 
> Another example would be with the tanchjim oxygen vs the blon 03, same driver but like a 10x price difference between them and they sound drastically different.


Uuuh... don't start topic about DLC driver. This drive has incredible potential, but only in 10% of cases we have products that have managed to use only max 80% of the potential. You're right, Tanchjim H2O and the Blon 03 are great example for IEMs.
Now for the buds we have BGVP DX5 which is total disaster (shell block driver vents), _Senfer KP110 (shell stem is weird),
_Turandot ... 50-50 maybe. Why they simply use generic shell and tune the driver properly and not complicated things with some unusual shell design. And where is that driver now, I mean we don't see any earphones using it.


----------



## MelodyMood

jogawag said:


> Have you ever listened to DIY Vido?
> If you haven't, why are you so confident in recommending the more expensive X6 instead of DIY Vido?


*Is DIY Vido different from the usual one? I remember buying one in 2017 but lost that or I guess it did not last long. That time it was introduced newly and I bought from NiceHCK. Quite cheap it was. I guess $3 USD with Mic. Not sure if there is any improvement in build quality and sound since then or especially with DIY Edition? Do you suggest me to go for that?  *




jogawag said:


> BTW, would you be interested in the Yincrow X6 with MMCX support?
> I feel it's closest to the original X6 when I use OFC cables, and when I use silver plated cables, I feel the soundstage is wider, so changing cables with MMCX is fun.


*Yincrow X6 with MMCX Cable is better than normal X6? What difference it makes from different cable? If the MMCX Cable (or any cable) is of very good quality, will that make huge difference in sound quality? I think it may make some difference surely but not sure how much? *


----------



## jogawag (Jun 17, 2021)

Let me introduce these in the flow of MMCX support.

This black docomo and white docomo were recently made MMCX compatible by me.

The black Shozy's balanced cable sounds like the Shozy BK Balanced, and the white silver-plated cable sounds like the Shozy Cygnus.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 16, 2021)

MelodyMood said:


> *Is DIY Vido different from the usual one? I remember buying one in 2017 but lost that or I guess it did not last long. That time it was introduced newly and I bought from NiceHCK. Quite cheap it was. I guess $3 USD with Mic. Not sure if there is any improvement in build quality and sound since then or especially with DIY Edition? Do you suggest me to go for that?  *


I think DIY Vido uses the same driver as the older regular ones. DIY Vido is cheap so I suggest you go for that.



MelodyMood said:


> *Yincrow X6 with MMCX Cable is better than normal X6? What difference it makes from different cable? If the MMCX Cable (or any cable) is of very good quality, will that make huge difference in sound quality? I think it may make some difference surely but not sure how much? *


Sorry, the Yincrow X6 with MMCX is not available on the market as I made it myself.


----------



## MelodyMood (Jun 16, 2021)

jao29 said:


> The Yincrow X6 has been my most satisfying audio purchase for the last 5 years. The price of the X6 and the sound quality you get in return is absolutely phenomenal. I liked them so much I bought two more. Lol The only audio related item I bought twice are the Jvc Fxt-90’s and the Grado SR-60’s. I won’t mind if Yincrow made a slightly expensive version of the X6 that improves on the cable quality, as those are the only thing that worry me about the long term durability of the earbuds.


MusicMaker TP-16 is also very good. And I feel good upgrade in terms of sound quality. Also, I recently bought FAAEL Iris and that is beautiful too. You should try that too:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33041471307.html

As far as JVC FXT-90 is concerned, I remember hearing that long ago (or FXT-100). The sound was incredible. And what Bass. Thundering and Skull Shaking. Unfortunately I do not find In-Ear earphones comfortable so did not buy or never think of going to that side. But I always wish if there any earbud which can give similar sound in terms of clarity and Bass especially and most like with Mic. But there is none and may not be none at all too.


----------



## MelodyMood

jogawag said:


> I think DIY Vido uses the same d-liver as the older regular ones. DIY Vido is cheap so I suggest you go for that.
> 
> 
> Sorry, the Yincrow X6 with MMCX is not available on the market as I made it myself.


Ok. Cannot make or modify it as never done so. So DIV Vido has same sound and build quality like regular one? No upgrade at all?


----------



## jogawag

MelodyMood said:


> Ok. Cannot make or modify it as never done so. So DIV Vido has same sound and build quality like regular one? No upgrade at all?


The DIY Vido now has the same length of cable on both sides compared to the old normal one. The cable might be a little more robust.

By now you've seen enough of this thread to know which product to buy.

*So I'm not going to reply to you anymore.*


----------



## MelodyMood

jogawag said:


> The DIY Vido now has the same length of cable on both sides compared to the old normal one. The cable might be a little more robust.
> 
> By now you've seen enough of this thread to know which product to buy.
> 
> *So I'm not going to reply to you anymore.*


Yes I got good info. Will be buying that MMCX you suggested. I was just exploring more options for near future too. It is fine if you do not reply as I already shortlisted the one you suggested.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 16, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> I see its defying gravity lol.


This is how the cable on my Shoonth ESEP-01BL is bent.


Without taunting sour grapes, maybe you should do something about the rubbery and unpleasant cable of your favorite Yincrow X6.


----------



## jao29

MelodyMood said:


> MusicMaker TP-16 is also very good. And I feel good upgrade in terms of sound quality. Also, I recently bought FAAEL Iris and that is beautiful too. You should try that too:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33041471307.html
> 
> As far as JVC FXT-90 is concerned, I remember hearing that long ago (or FXT-100). The sound was incredible. And what Bass. Thundering and Skull Shaking. Unfortunately I do not find In-Ear earphones comfortable so did not buy or never think of going to that side. But I always wish if there any earbud which can give similar sound in terms of clarity and Bass especially and most like with Mic. But there is none and may not be none at all too.


I already have the tp16 haha. I like them as well. I ordered the Faaeal Iris Ancestor because I had a good experience with my Snow Lotus 1.0. Is the Iris and the Iris Ancestor the same? Faaeal has so many earbud models that I’ve lost track. 😅


----------



## chinmie

n00b said:


> I pressed it up further into my ear canal and heard a click, then suddenly I had some bass response.





RikudouGoku said:


> Sounds like you like them then.
> 
> But any kind of driver flex should be straight up impossible with buds...



it's possible to have driver flex with earbuds, in fact in this thread alone you can find instances of them occuring. Usually it happens to someone who is not using foams on their earbuds. any amount of foams would cut the possibility of flex happening, but it definitely could happen. i personally have almost similar amount of hearing driver flexes between IEMs and earbuds 



jogawag said:


> DIY Vido



i think almost all of DIY and earbuds maker would definitely have modded a Vido, and most of them that i've heard sounded good... that is saying something about the driver potential  
also for a bit of blast to the past: let's not forget the Kube, and also (especially) Edifier H180 which has a quite wide difference in sound signature between their mods. 

i haven't heard that many versatility in mods with the IEM world.. like for instance the MH755, most of them are just cable changes and detachable mods, and even if the mod is sound related, i haven't heard one that has significant enough changes/improvements from the stock sound


----------



## uneri (Jun 24, 2021)

‎


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Head's up to anyone interested in the *Blur MX300 美魔女 Beautiful Witch "aPs" Edition (300Ω)*... this current run is ending soon.

As a custom builder Wong doesn't buy parts (wires, plugs, drivers) in bulk thus explaining why he has so many different and varying models and limited run numbers.

There are now only three (3) MX300 美魔女 Beautiful Witch aPs editions remaining as follows:

Oyaide 2.5mm (2.5TRRS); Blue Shell
Oyaide 3.5mm (3.5SE); Black Shell
Rhodium Plated 4.4mm (4.4TRRS); Red Shell
You can few them on his Instagram *here*

The next version of the MX300 美魔女 Beautiful Witch aPs will use completely different cabling and possibly no longer terminated with Oyaide plugs... undetermined release date because Wong is busy working on other models and new designs --- I will soon post a brand new Limited Edition model once I have had time to listen and reflect on it.


----------



## wskl

uneri said:


> Some good deals for the upcoming AE sale starting next week on June 21:
> 
> Yincrow RW-2000 (~USD 128)
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001658760523.html
> ...



RW-2000 vs ST-10s black gold, which has the better mids and soundstage?


----------



## uneri (Jun 24, 2021)

‎


----------



## baskingshark

uneri said:


> I no longer have the ST-10s Black Gold, and I actually sold them before I got my RW-2000, so I never had the chance to A/B test the two.
> 
> Did a quick search and found @baskingshark 's brief comparisons between these two.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3604#post-16353329
> Maybe he can chime in if these impressions are still true, having owned both of them for some time now.



Yep it still holds true, RW2000 is an upgrade over the smabat ST10S black gold in mids and treble and technicalities and soundstage.

Black gold wins in bass quantity and extension. Black gold is way harder to drive too and needs an amp, so one area to think about if you don't have a powerful source.

Basshead will like black gold, but black gold is also cheaper than RW2000, so cost is another area to factor in.


----------



## Question2

Hmm, i'm starting to think that my little black bell S has gotten lost in the mail. The tracking data shows it left China on the 12th, and theres no sign of it since then. The site that I bought it from (Shopee) claims that they do not have any more tracking data because it was handed to Singpost, a delivery partner. Singpost themselves states that the tracking number given by Shopee isnt a valid Singpost tracking number and that the package was probably sent as 'basic mail" which has no tracking, and they have no way of finding the package....

All I can do is hope I get it tommorrow I guess....if it does not arrive I will have to request a refund...


----------



## Smasher

@RikudouGoku what are your impressions on the super one? Is this the proper X6 upgrade you were looking for?


----------



## RikudouGoku

chinmie said:


> it's possible to have driver flex with earbuds, in fact in this thread alone you can find instances of them occuring. Usually it happens to someone who is not using foams on their earbuds. any amount of foams would cut the possibility of flex happening, but it definitely could happen. i personally have almost similar amount of hearing driver flexes between IEMs and earbuds
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, learned something new then I guess. Still hard to wrap my head around how buds can flex though...

As for iem mods, there are a few of them. Micropore taping the vents or the nozzle, replacing the stock mesh or my own DIY foam mod (putting small pieces of earbud foam inside the tips).


Smasher said:


> @RikudouGoku what are your impressions on the super one? Is this the proper X6 upgrade you were looking for?


Impressions will come later today probably.


----------



## chinmie

RikudouGoku said:


> As for iem mods, there are a few of them. Micropore taping the vents or the nozzle, replacing the stock mesh or my own DIY foam mod (putting small pieces of earbud foam inside the tips)



yes, that's mostly surface level "mod" that IEM users would do, even instinctively in some cases.. my "non-audophile" musician friends who never been in forums like these even do that. 
similar to that, we earbuds users do that too with foams (though it also doubles as fitting modification). 

there's also internal modification in IEMs, of course, but it's more complicated to do than on earbuds (maybe that's why less people are doing it) , and also slight mod on earbuds seemingly produce bigger changes in sound than IEMs


----------



## RikudouGoku

chinmie said:


> yes, that's mostly surface level "mod" that IEM users would do, even instinctively in some cases.. my "non-audophile" musician friends who never been in forums like these even do that.
> similar to that, we earbuds users do that too with foams (though it also doubles as fitting modification).
> 
> there's also internal modification in IEMs, of course, but it's more complicated to do than on earbuds (maybe that's why less people are doing it) , and also slight mod on earbuds seemingly produce bigger changes in sound than IEMs


I don't really count tip/foam rolling as mods though.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> I don't really count tip/foam rolling as mods though.


 That's funny. If this were to be counted as a mod then what about changing the cable (mmcx or 2-pin)


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> That's funny. If this were to be counted as a mod then what about changing the cable (mmcx or 2-pin)


I dont count that either since it doesnt affect the sound and is purely cosmetic.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> I dont count that either since it doesnt affect the sound and is purely cosmetic.


The cable can affect the sound, slightly, but that is not a point. Physical change of the shell or adding driver filters, connectors also, is for me "real" mod


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> The cable can affect the sound, slightly, but that is not a point. Physical change of the shell or adding driver filters, connectors also, is for me "real" mod


Its due to that airflow change isnt it? Yeah for some buds like the Bells it does seem to have a effect, but they dont have replaceable connectors though.


----------



## chinmie

RikudouGoku said:


> I don't really count tip/foam rolling as mods though.



you could say that, but semantics aside, the end results are kind of similar, isn't it (trying to do minor changes the sound)? for example, i know some people who thinks that micropore taping nozzles is not modding. 

i personally see any attempts to change something, no matter how small, as modifying..even EQing and Fx (which brings much bigger changes to the sound than most physical modding). 

so basically i can both agree and disagree with your post above


----------



## furyossa (Jun 17, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Its due to that airflow change isnt it? Yeah for some buds like the Bells it does seem to have a effect, but they dont have replaceable connectors though.


I most cases yes, but not always


chinmie said:


> you could say that, but semantics aside, the end results are kind of similar, isn't it (trying to do minor changes the sound)? for example, i know some people who thinks that micropore taping nozzles is not modding.
> 
> i personally see any attempts to change something, no matter how small, as modifying..even EQing and Fx (which brings much bigger changes to the sound than most physical modding).
> 
> so basically i can both agree and disagree with your post above


Or we can just say there are "real" mods and tricks


----------



## RikudouGoku

Smabat Super One:

Bass: sub-bass focused and does have actual rumble and extension but also has a lot of mid-bass as well so it does affect the overall tonality and causes it to be somewhat bloated. It is still pretty fast and tight with pretty good texture though.

Mids: forward female vocals but slightly recessed male vocals so the contrast between them is pretty big. Mid-bass causes some bleed into the mids.

Treble: on the slightly warmer side but is balanced out due to it having a slight 3k (which is my weak spot) peak that is a bit harsh for me and the upper-treble isn’t that extended/airy.



Smabat M2S Pro:

Bass: a more neutral bud but has very impressive sub-bass extension and actual rumble for something as low quantity as it got. Very fast, tight and impressive texture (bass reminds me of the old LZ house tuning in the iem world).

Mids: forward female vocals and neutral male vocals. Very clean and no bleed from the bass.

Treble: on the brighter side due to the more neutral tuning and it does have a slight 3k peak here as well so it is also a bit harsh for me. Upper treble extension and air are very good.





Overall: At this point, I am honestly more impressed by the M2S Pro which does not look good for the Super One being priced as high as it is…well take it with a grain of salt as it is still early. I will most likely have the Super One review done in time for when the sale starts and depending on when I finish it I might be able to finish the M2S Pro review before the sale ends (no guarantees on that one though).


----------



## Сomrade

RikudouGoku said:


> Smabat M2S Pro


How sound in comparison with YinCrow RW-2000?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Сomrade said:


> How sound in comparison with YinCrow RW-2000?


I will have comparisons in my review. Although it is after I have finished my super one review.


----------



## vygas

jogawag said:


> I recommend the Ks LBBS to you as it matches your preferred sound characteristics and badget.
> 
> ILBBS is the first choice for the color options on the following page.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html
> ...


I've actually been eyeing these for a bit so this might be the time to get em', cheers


----------



## jogawag

vygas said:


> I've actually been eyeing these for a bit so this might be the time to get em', cheers


In case the bass of the LBBS is less than you expect, you can still use the double foam.
This will give you more than enough bass.


----------



## waynes world (Jun 17, 2021)

jogawag said:


> This is how the cable on my Shoonth ESEP-01BL is bent.
> 
> Without taunting sour grapes, maybe you should do something about the rubbery and unpleasant cable of your favorite Yincrow X6.



He was just making a joke. But since I was the one that posted the original image, I'll respond.

In my mind, if a cable needs bending, that's a problem.. When out and about, I clip the cable to my shirt behind my neck, so even if it's bent to work better, the stiffness of the cable often pops the earbuds out of my ears (which btw the X6's cable doesn't do).

As I've said many times though, I love the sound coming out of the ESEP-01BL's, and I listen to them all of the time in bed or at my desk (where the cable stiffness isn't as much of an issue). But, the cable could be less stiff.

Edit: listening to them now at my desktop, and they sound_ very _good. Distracting me from getting work done!


----------



## vygas

jogawag said:


> In case the bass of the LBBS is less than you expect, you can still use the double foam.
> This will give you more than enough bass.


eh I mean, I'm already sorted bass wise after doing some re-tuning to some of my DIY builds. Though I'll still keep that in mind , thank you for your recommendation.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 17, 2021)

wskl said:


> RW-2000 vs ST-10s black gold, which has the better mids and soundstage?


I think RW-2000 has the better mids and soundstage even as second opinion.


----------



## Magiczny78

Hello. I am looking for headphones with a similar design to Rose Maria - they absolutely captivated me! They are beautiful. Unfortunately I can't afford them. I can allocate $50 max. It would be good if the drivers are tuned for bass and midrange presence. Thank you for any suggestions.


----------



## MelodyMood

jao29 said:


> I already have the tp16 haha. I like them as well. I ordered the Faaeal Iris Ancestor because I had a good experience with my Snow Lotus 1.0. Is the Iris and the Iris Ancestor the same? Faaeal has so many earbud models that I’ve lost track. 😅


No. Iris (the one I shared) and Iris Ancestor are different. I did not try that and neither Snow Lotus. How did you find Snow Lotus sound and build quality. Iris is very good and I am sure you would love that.


----------



## MelodyMood (Jun 17, 2021)

jogawag said:


> As I recall, @MelodyMood had wanted a red cable, so I recommended this cable to him.
> 
> Edit: In his post he writes the following.
> "I wanted to buy TY Hi-Z 32 especially the red cable one but none is available with Mic."


The MMCX Cable you suggested are good. I already added them into my Cart and it seems that there is some Sale from 21st June so I will order on or after that (before 25th). I also found these two MMCX Cable from FAAEAL. Any idea if they are also good and I can consider? Better or same than what you suggested?


_*https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32864276386.html*_

*https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32682271127.html *

And found this one: *https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001469673536.html*, which is looking exactly same like *https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002103784716.html* but half the price.


----------



## jogawag

MelodyMood said:


> The MMCX Cable you suggested are good. I already added them into my Cart and it seems that there is some Sale from 21st June so I will order on or after that (before 25th). I also found these two MMCX Cable from FAAEAL. Any idea if they are also good and I can consider? Better or same than what you suggested?
> 
> 
> _*https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32864276386.html*_
> ...


If you don't need a red cable, you can choice any one you like.


----------



## MelodyMood

jogawag said:


> If you don't need a red cable, you can choice any one you like.


Not too sure abt Red as of now. But want to ensure that I am ordering the best quality within budget . Also, looks like these below are same too. What do you think?

*https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001469673536.html* 
*https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002103784716.html* 

But one of AU $15 and other one is AU $8.


----------



## jogawag

MelodyMood said:


> Not too sure abt Red as of now. But want to ensure that I am ordering the best quality within budget . Also, looks like these below are same too. What do you think?
> 
> *https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001469673536.html*
> *https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002103784716.html*
> ...


Take whichever you like.


----------



## MelodyMood (Jun 17, 2021)

One query to all experts. As now a days Phone Manufacturing companies not providing 3.5mm Headphone Jack with Phones thus making $1000 phone as total piece of junk. I am still not convinced that Type C can provide even 10% of the sound quality what we hear through 3.5mm Jack, but I see there are many MMCX Cable with Type C connector. Will it be good idea to buy that and MMCX Earbud and use and still get very good sound quality like TP16, Yincrow or FAAEL level?

I bought S10 because that was the best and high end available with 3.5mm Jack. But in future, may be after 2-3 years, can I consider Type C Phone if I can buy cpl of MMCX Earbuds and MMCX Type C cable with Mic? But then what will I do with my all 3.5mm Earbuds? They will be useless in that case.


----------



## axhng

MelodyMood said:


> One query to all experts. As now a days Phone Manufacturing companies not providing 3.5mm Headphone Jack with Phones thus making $1000 phone as total piece of junk. I am still not convinced that Type C can provide even 10% of the sound quality what we hear through 3.5mm Jack, but I see there are many MMCX Cable with Type C connector. Will it be good idea to buy that and MMCX Earbud and use and still get very good sound quality like TP16, Yincrow or FAAEL level?
> 
> I bought S10 because that was the best and high end available with 3.5mm Jack. But in future, may be after 2-3 years, can I consider Type C Phone if I can buy cpl of MMCX Earbuds and MMCX Type C cable with Mic? But then what will I do with my all 3.5mm Earbuds? They will be useless in that case.


not really an expert, but my personal opinion is that USB-C MMCX/2Pin cables are not that worth it because they're not as flexible as a USB-C to 3.5mm dongle, which would work with not just earbuds/IEMs with removable cable, but basically anything with a 3.5mm jack. I also think that these days you can get pretty decent sounding usb-c to 3.5mm dongle that sounds better than what most phones (especially cheaper ones) comes with, even at the budget level. I have a JCALLY JM04 Pro that is like 7-8 USD on a local shopping site (shopee) which sounds pretty decent, and there are plenty of options these days if you do want to upgrade to better and more powerful dongles in the future too.

But at least we're starting to see a few companies bring back the 3.5mm jack on their phones. Sony's latest devices have them, and Asus' ROG 5 even has an ESS DAC. So there might still be some options in the near future.


----------



## MelodyMood

axhng said:


> not really an expert, but my personal opinion is that USB-C MMCX/2Pin cables are not that worth it because they're not as flexible as a USB-C to 3.5mm dongle, which would work with not just earbuds/IEMs with removable cable, but basically anything with a 3.5mm jack. I also think that these days you can get pretty decent sounding usb-c to 3.5mm dongle that sounds better than what most phones (especially cheaper ones) comes with, even at the budget level. I have a JCALLY JM04 Pro that is like 7-8 USD on a local shopping site (shopee) which sounds pretty decent, and there are plenty of options these days if you do want to upgrade to better and more powerful dongles in the future too.
> 
> But at least we're starting to see a few companies bring back the 3.5mm jack on their phones. Sony's latest devices have them, and Asus' ROG 5 even has an ESS DAC. So there might still be some options in the near future.



Yeah. Sony is still providing 3.5mm Jack. But I did not like they providing 3.5mm Jack in top side and not next to the charging port. Also, all others who are providing, either have very Mediocre and Low Config phones or the phones are too big and bulky that it is impossible to use and carry them on day to day basis with comfort. In fact, I feel that my S10+ is also slightly heavy and big. I should have gone for S10 instead but much large battery  was the big plus so I went for S10+.

I do not want to use DAC or 3.5mm to USB-C Convertor dongle as do not like to carry additional devices. Always chances that I will lose them and keep buying and also not comfortable. So only option is to either wait for few years and see if some good phones comes which is less than 170g weight and smaller screen (like 6.2" display etc.). But I do not think if any such phone comes. Not sure who buy phones with Type C. I guess only fools can buy these junk by paying $1000s.


----------



## jao29

MelodyMood said:


> No. Iris (the one I shared) and Iris Ancestor are different. I did not try that and neither Snow Lotus. How did you find Snow Lotus sound and build quality. Iris is very good and I am sure you would love that.


The Snow Lotus 1.0 is my go to earbud if I’m going to listen to an album that’s more than an hour. Think artists like Swans or Prurient. It’s non fatiguing and warmish sound quality is perfect for long listening sessions. Also, its cable is also pretty good. Ive had my Snow Lotus for 4 years now and its still going strong. I got the braided cable reminiscent of the cable from the Rw9 if that helps.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Pre-Order has now begun for the new *Ks Bell-Ti PLUS* via Ksearphones' (凱聲科技 Kaisheng Technology) official store on Taobao *here*. Which means it should show up on Aliexpress shortly. Unfortunately, there are no specs or new pics offered for the new flagship earbud besides the one thumbnail showing the interchangeable terminations (plugs) 😡... see below:






Be warned the rest of the data and pics are for the older *Bell-Ti 32Ω/120Ω* and *Bell-Ti Onmyoji v2021* *30Ω* models.


----------



## mochill

This smabat super one is it


----------



## jogawag (Jun 18, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Pre-Order has now begun for the new *Ks Bell-Ti PLUS* via Ksearphones' (凱聲科技 Kaisheng Technology) official store on Taobao *here*. Which means it should show up on Aliexpress shortly. Unfortunately, there are no specs or new pics offered for the new flagship earbud besides the one thumbnail showing the interchangeable terminations (plugs) 😡... see below:
> 
> 
> 
> Be warned the rest of the data and pics are for the older *Bell-Ti 32Ω/120Ω* and *Bell-Ti Onmyoji v2021* *30Ω* models.


The price of Bell-Ti PLUS is about USD160, which is cheaper than Bell-Ti and Onmyoji.
Is Bell-Ti PLUS also made of aluminum alloy like Onmyoji?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 18, 2021)

jogawag said:


> The price of Bell-Ti PLUS is about USD160, which is cheaper than Bell-Ti and Onmyoji.
> Is Bell-Ti PLUS also made of aluminum alloy like Onmyoji?


Unfortunately, that is only the Pre-Order payment. The total price for the Bell-Ti PLUS is expected to come in around ¥5,000 Chinese Yuan Renminbi (RMB)... so around USD$775.

Regarding the shell material... that is everyone's question now as it has not been officially announced nor spec'd. Some of the show models felt like titanium and others aluminum, and others something else entirely! Doubtful that it will be titanium though as Ks had one hell of a time getting those 1,000 shells made the first time around and why they turned to aluminum for the Onmyoji. We'll find out shortly though!


----------



## uneri (Jun 24, 2021)

‎


----------



## waynes world

MelodyMood said:


> One query to all experts. As now a days Phone Manufacturing companies not providing 3.5mm Headphone Jack with Phones thus making $1000 phone as total piece of junk. I am still not convinced that Type C can provide even 10% of the sound quality what we hear through 3.5mm Jack, but I see there are many MMCX Cable with Type C connector. Will it be good idea to buy that and MMCX Earbud and use and still get very good sound quality like TP16, Yincrow or FAAEL level?
> 
> I bought S10 because that was the best and high end available with 3.5mm Jack. But in future, may be after 2-3 years, can I consider Type C Phone if I can buy cpl of MMCX Earbuds and MMCX Type C cable with Mic? But then what will I do with my all 3.5mm Earbuds? They will be useless in that case.



Bluetooth receiver is your solution. I switched to using one for my 3.5mm (and 2.5mm) buds, and have never looked back (even though I have an S8 with a jack).

Get the Qudelix 5K, use LDAC, and you probably won't be able to tell that it's bluetooth.


----------



## n00b

dang, $700 for the bell-ti plus and you won’t even know how it fits since the housing is larger? I’m still curious about the Bell-Ti/onmyoji because the only thing holding me back on the Chaconne is the heft and awkwardly long stems making it not the easiest fit. anyone here planning on picking one up? looks like there’s only 1000 units made too


----------



## FranQL

n00b said:


> dang, $700 for the bell-ti plus and you won’t even know how it fits since the housing is larger? I’m still curious about the Bell-Ti/onmyoji because the only thing holding me back on the Chaconne is the heft and awkwardly long stems making it not the easiest fit. anyone here planning on picking one up? looks like there’s only 1000 units made too



If they only made 1000 units, you can rest assured that it won't be my fault if they run out


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 18, 2021)

uneri said:


> Some pics of the new *Bell-Ti Plus* from Ks Weibo:
> 
> *MSRP: 4299 RMB*
> 
> ...


Nice find there *@uneri*! Many thanks for sharing that with us. Just wish they had the specs... but those pics sure are great!

'Curiouser and curiouser' (as Alice in Wonderland exclaimed), the shell material is rather dark... it appears to be *brushed magnesium-iron alloy* as the brushed molding grade of titanium is usually much lighter in color and shinier (more mirror like) and brushed aluminum of course is much whiter in color and duller (due to that it shows casting/machining marks more clearly).

MSRP 4299 RMB = USD$666... a nice drop in pricing since when announced at their debut at the *2021 Shanghai International Headphone Exhibition* a few months back. That Yuan 5,000 pricing they initially gave must have been very hard for a lot to stomach.

*@uneri *where did you see the 16mm driver spec? I imagine now the impedance and sensitivity will be different than the older 120Ω driver.

Interesting naming... *Bell-Ti Plus *_*Completion Version*_


----------



## WoodyLuvr

n00b said:


> dang, $700 for the bell-ti plus and you won’t even know how it fits since the housing is larger? I’m still curious about the Bell-Ti/onmyoji because the only thing holding me back on the Chaconne is the heft and awkwardly long stems making it not the easiest fit. anyone here planning on picking one up? looks like there’s only 1000 units made too


Really hard to tell if the housing (shell) is indeed larger or not but the stem is most definitely a good 3-4mm longer than the stem on my Bell-Ti 120Ω.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 18, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Really hard to tell if the housing (shell) is indeed larger or not but the stem is most definitely a good 3-4mm longer than the stem on my Bell-Ti 120Ω.


I notice that also. Hmm... all over 10mm with this type of shell 


n00b said:


> dang, $700 for the bell-ti plus and you won’t even know how it fits since the housing is larger? I’m still curious about the Bell-Ti/onmyoji because the only thing holding me back *on the Chaconne is the heft and awkwardly long stems making it not the easiest fit*. anyone here planning on picking one up? looks like there’s only 1000 units made too


This is proving my point


----------



## uneri (Jun 24, 2021)

‎


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 18, 2021)

Another interesting point is they are now putting the serial number on the fixed cable splitter (which appears to be the same material as the shell) and a smaller black colored slider.



 



The splitter and slider on my older Bell-Ti is the same size, color, and material (not titanium):


----------



## WoodyLuvr

uneri said:


> Mentioned here by a Chinese reseller who has already received a pair, and it's open for demo.
> 
> Onmyoji also has the completion version naming


Damn, again thank you good sir as I completely missed that thread over on erji.net!

I guess it is Ks way of saying these are the "final" versions of the Bell-Ti and Onmyoji.


----------



## 544592

Can anyone recommend a set of earbuds that are good for running?

I have the Creative Aurvana Air's which sound excellent and work for me whilst running, however the wife doesn't get on well with them as they tend to fall out.

Just something secure that's not intrusive in the ear and doesn't necessarily have to sound the best as she mainly listens to podcasts. I'm having a hard time finding something and we're about to try bonephones (aftershokz).


----------



## jogawag (Jun 18, 2021)

The owner, Onmyoji, is away, a sad empty wooden box and a metal plate are waiting for his return.
Onmyoji, which was initially defective, will be replaced by a new one and return from NiceHCK in 10 days.

( if the photos look like they are blurred by tears, because they reflect their emotions.
  It is never due to my poor photography skills or my cheap smart phone, never...  )


----------



## jao29

Gm7dha said:


> Can anyone recommend a set of earbuds that are good for running?
> 
> I have the Creative Aurvana Air's which sound excellent and work for me whilst running, however the wife doesn't get on well with them as they tend to fall out.
> 
> Just something secure that's not intrusive in the ear and doesn't necessarily have to sound the best as she mainly listens to podcasts. I'm having a hard time finding something and we're about to try bonephones (aftershokz).


Hmmm does mx500 shells suit her fine? I haven’t tried the Aurvana Airs unfortunately. If the mx500 shells are uncomfortable for her, maybe you could try the Qian 39? As they have a reputation for being comfortable. Or maybe try Yuin shell typed earbuds.


----------



## axhng

cappuchino said:


> The one from your pic looks like the 64s. Though I'm not sure why it doesn't say so on the bag.
> 
> More impressions please on the K's
> 😝 Thank you
> ...


remembered you asking this, and I'm not quite confident enough to separate the driver from the shell cover without damaging the driver, so this is the best i can do for now.


----------



## cappuchino

axhng said:


> remembered you asking this, and I'm not quite confident enough to separate the driver from the shell cover without damaging the driver, so this is the best i can do for now.


Thanks a lot! Will you be doing a video review for this? Will definitely watch it 😁


----------



## 544592

jao29 said:


> Hmmm does mx500 shells suit her fine? I haven’t tried the Aurvana Airs unfortunately. If the mx500 shells are uncomfortable for her, maybe you could try the Qian 39? As they have a reputation for being comfortable. Or maybe try Yuin shell typed earbuds.


I'll look into them, thanks. 👍


----------



## axhng (Jun 18, 2021)

cappuchino said:


> Thanks a lot! Will you be doing a video review for this? Will definitely watch it 😁


I'm not sure just yet.  I haven't had much time to listen to these since I've been trying other stuff, and still got other things to go through. But from the short amount of time I had with it, I like it. It reminds me a bit of the ME80 but with a bit less upper mids and treble. But will have to really compare them to know for sure. I still like my ME80 and Aurvana Air more, but so far I like it more than the JCALLY EP09 at least (tonality sounds more natural to me), which already makes it great value for money for me. Previously my favourite at this price range was a pair of DIY N50 drivers with some cheap cable, but the 64S is essentially the same price but sounds better, has a nicer cable, and I don't have to put it together myself. lol.

I also bought the FAAEAL Iris Ancestor otw since they're pretty cheap. First impression is pretty good too. Fairly typical warm and analogue sound from earbuds, but there is still enough elevation in the upper mids so it doesn't sound too warm. I think slightly better detail retrieval too compared to something like the vido. So in this regard i like it more than the vido (red) already. Plus the cable is much thicker and feels way better compared to the cheapo vido cable.






Edit: after more time with the 64S, it's a toss up between that and the aurvana air.


----------



## Smasher

Anyone tried astrotec Lyra nature limited edition?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Smasher said:


> Anyone tried astrotec Lyra nature limited edition?


There is a review for it: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/astrotec-lyra-nature-limited-edition.25223/reviews#review-26090

But no comparisons so yeah...


----------



## Alex.Grimm

RikudouGoku said:


> Smabat Super One:


Cool, review please


----------



## Alex.Grimm

mochill said:


> This smabat super one is it


Review please too


----------



## RikudouGoku

Alex.Grimm said:


> Cool, review please


Working on it, might be done today.


----------



## mochill

Alex.Grimm said:


> Review please too


Hopefully in future as I have a big log of stuff to review 😸


----------



## RikudouGoku

Smabat Super One review is up: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-super-one.25226/reviews#review-26095

Rank: B+ 

yeah, its a big dissapointment....
The M2S Pro on the other hand will be a fun one to review.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 18, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Smabat Super One review is up: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-super-one.25226/reviews#review-26095
> 
> Rank: B+
> 
> ...


So super "NOE" got a B+ for bad behavior in school. No 10x stronger bass then ST-10s? 
You think that M2Pro / ST-10s has better vent system solution then S-One?

Still don't understand why they try to adjust this high impedance drivers for smartphones. Sensitivity of 115dB is too much for 100ohm.
Less than 105dB will be optimal IMO


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> So super "NOE" got a B+ for bad behavior in school. No 10x stronger bass then ST-10s?
> You think that M2Pro / ST-10s has better vent system solution then S-One?


Havent heard the ST-10S.

But I did just notice that they posted a graph: 



So it might be more of a tuning problem rather than the vent system itself. That bass shelf is too big and too early. The dip at 1.5k and the bigger rise at around 2k is a problem as well....


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Havent heard the ST-10S.
> 
> But I did just notice that they posted a graph:
> 
> So it might be more of a tuning problem rather than the vent system itself. That bass shelf is too big and too early. The dip at 1.5k and the bigger rise at around 2k is a problem as well....


Yup that's bad but still why $308,why so much increase in price. 
Forget about cables. That's bad habit to add 2nd cable and add + $100


----------



## Smasher

RikudouGoku said:


> Smabat Super One review is up: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-super-one.25226/reviews#review-26095
> 
> Rank: B+
> 
> ...



Sigh. Looks like I will just get rw2000 for now


----------



## n00b (Jun 18, 2021)

That's a shame, always excited for more buds with actual bass and detachable cables.

For now I am holding out for a bud that's comfortable/fits well but has sub-bass and forward female vocals, ideally also comes in 4.4mm balanced and lower impedance for DAP use. I feel like K's might have something since they use MX500 or smaller bell shapes but they're expensive and difficult to understand haha. The other one I'd look at is FiiO EM5 but those look pretty large

edit: in the meantime i got IKKO OH10 on sale and it has the tuning i like. sub bass, stage and forward upper mids niceeee


----------



## RikudouGoku

Smasher said:


> Sigh. Looks like I will just get rw2000 for now


What tuning do you want? bass boosted (mid-bass) neutral? if yes, then the RW-2000 is indeed a very good choice.


----------



## Smasher

RikudouGoku said:


> What tuning do you want? bass boosted (mid-bass) neutral? if yes, then the RW-2000 is indeed a very good choice.



Basically looking for an X6 upgrade. I held back rw2k purchase to see how you would rate k's earphones and super one. So far looks like rw2k is the way to go. Or maybe I should wait for the m2s review


----------



## furyossa (Jun 18, 2021)

This is how we can present mid-bass centric earbuds. Mids are the area in front of the wall


----------



## jogawag (Jun 18, 2021)

n00b said:


> That's a shame, always excited for more buds with actual bass and detachable cables.
> 
> For now I am holding out for a bud that's comfortable/fits well but has sub-bass and forward female vocals, ideally also comes in 4.4mm balanced and lower impedance for DAP use. I feel like K's might have something since they use MX500 or smaller bell shapes but they're expensive and difficult to understand haha. The other one I'd look at is FiiO EM5 but those look pretty large
> 
> edit: in the meantime i got IKKO OH10 on sale and it has the tuning i like. sub bass, stage and forward upper mids niceeee


I think that K's earphone Onmyoji 2021 4.4mm is at the top of the earbuds that adapt your needs, "comfortable / fits well but has sub-bass and forward female vocals, ideally also comes in 4.4mm balanced and lower impedance".
Onmyoji 2021 is a bit expensive, but in the end I believe you will be very happy with it.

Edit: If the Onmyoji 2021 is too expensive for you, you can give up the 4.4mm plug, I recommend the LBBS which has 70% almost the same sound signature.


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> This is how we can present mid-bass centric earbuds. Mids are the area in front of the wall


RW-2000 is not one of them lol, but that is generally the case with them...



Smasher said:


> Basically looking for an X6 upgrade. I held back rw2k purchase to see how you would rate k's earphones and super one. So far looks like rw2k is the way to go. Or maybe I should wait for the m2s review


Well, if you want an X6 as in a true upgrade with the same tuning but better quality. It doesnt exist.   

But you should wait regardless though, since the sale starts on monday.


----------



## digititus

ST10s Gold is a steal at $80 compared to the Super One


----------



## rkw (Jun 18, 2021)

Gm7dha said:


> Can anyone recommend a set of earbuds that are good for running?


Earbuds and running is an oxymoron because of the loose fit.

You could try silicon fins/hooks like those in the Venture Electronics Ex Pack.
https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=14
https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=earbud+hooks+silicone


----------



## jogawag (Jun 18, 2021)

Gm7dha said:


> Can anyone recommend a set of earbuds that are good for running?


I would recommend the White Bell from the ksearphone bell series with Double foam (Donut foam on Full foam) for your wife.
This shell is small enough to fit in the ear canal so that it will stay in her ear like an earplug.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002442599536.html


----------



## cappuchino

*Just curious, what is your "WOW" buds? The one that made you say, "d*mn, these sound awesome!"*

Looking to purchase another one as my MS16 is dying on me (I think it can be fixed with a recable which I can do, but if that's the case, then I won't have a reason to purchase a new earbud 😝)


Budget is sub-100 USD. Any sound signature will do.


----------



## RikudouGoku

cappuchino said:


> *Just curious, what is your "WOW" buds? The one that made you say, "d*mn, these sound awesome!"*
> 
> Looking to purchase another one as my MS16 is dying on me (I think it can be fixed with a recable which I can do, but if that's the case, then I won't have a reason to purchase a new earbud 😝)
> 
> ...


Yincrow X6
NiceHCK MX500
NiceHCK ME80 (discontinued, get the Faaeal Iris CE transparent white version instead)


----------



## wskl

If anyone has an interest in the Ansata Pro, I found a Russian review.

https://www.ixbt.com/live/digs/obzor-dinamicheskih-naushnikov-vkladyshey-ourart-ansata-pro.html

The previous Ourart models 'ACG' and 'Ti7' have been praised for their excellent mids and the Ansata Pro is supposed to be an upgrade over those 2 which has piqued my interest, and the price makes it very tempting.

I'll do some more research over the weekend on other earbuds but I think I am almost set on getting the Yincrow RW-2000 this summer sale.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 18, 2021)

jogawag said:


> I would recommend the White Bell from the ksearphone bell series with Double foam (Donut foam on Full foam) for your wife.
> This shell is small enough to fit in the ear canal so that your wife can use it like an earplug and it will stay in her ear.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002442599536.html


A "synonym" for running is moisture. How did you think a foam could help with that. Flat-head earbuds are not practical for sports activities, except for chess for example  , due to poor fit and open shell construction on both sides of the driver. Silicone caps can improve fit and at the same time provide protection from moisture.
I tried silicon caps from Earphones Style 2+ with PK and MX500 shells, and it fits nicely.
Another one https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/jbl-grip-200-sport-earbuds-0743564p.html


----------



## jogawag

cappuchino said:


> *Just curious, what is your "WOW" buds? The one that made you say, "d*mn, these sound awesome!"*
> 
> Looking to purchase another one as my MS16 is dying on me (I think it can be fixed with a recable which I can do, but if that's the case, then I won't have a reason to purchase a new earbud 😝)
> 
> ...


The SHOONTH ESEP-01BL's bass performance and wide soundstage are great attractions.   
And the DP100 type shells are thinner than the MX500 type shells and fit more comfortably in the ear. 
https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/shoonth-esep-01bl.html


----------



## furyossa

wskl said:


> If anyone has an interest in the Ansata Pro, I found a Russian review.
> 
> https://www.ixbt.com/live/digs/obzor-dinamicheskih-naushnikov-vkladyshey-ourart-ansata-pro.html
> 
> ...


Poor low end (too open in front of driver) and fit are the main issue of this earbud design.


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> The SHOONTH ESEP-01BL's bass performance and wide soundstage are great attractions.
> And the DP100 type shells are thinner than the MX500 type shells and fit more comfortably in the ear.
> https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/shoonth-esep-01bl.html


Yup. Wide stage is amazing on these.   
But if you like soundtage in all 3 axis then Tingo TG-38s is the winner here 
They are both very good buds for the money, but they are also different. 
Tingo has more spacious sound and ShoonTH is more intimate. One of the reason for that is type of the shell, i.e. the depth of the shell head


----------



## jogawag

furyossa said:


> Yup. Wide stage is amazing on these.
> But if you like soundtage in all 3 axis then Tingo TG-38s is the winner here
> They are both very good buds for the money, but they are also different.
> Tingo has more spacious sound and ShoonTH is more intimate. One of the reason for that is type of the shell, i.e. the depth of the shell head


How about the bass performance of Tingo TG-38s?
The bass performance is main great attraction of SHOONTH ESEP-01BL, isn't it?


----------



## furyossa (Jun 18, 2021)

jogawag said:


> How about the bass performance of Tingo TG-38s?
> The bass performance is main great attraction of SHOONTH ESEP-01BL, isn't it?


sub-bass: Tingo *>* ShoonTH
bass: Tingo (slower)* <=* SHOONTH (faster) - both are good, but I like faster bass response (personal preference)
mids (vocals):  Tingo < ShoonTH
imaging:  Tingo < ShoonTH
soundstage: Tingo *>* ShoonTH  - 3D vs Wide (personal preference)
instruments separation and positioning: Tingo >= ShoonTH - because of big stage (personal preference)
treble: Tingo < ShoonTH
value vs price : Tingo *>* ShoonTH  - Tingo is twice as cheap
cable : Tingo > ShoonTH   - 100% Tingo


----------



## mochill

I find super one has actual bass , it's also deep and extended


----------



## jogawag (Jun 18, 2021)

furyossa said:


> sub-bass: Tingo *>* ShoonTH
> bass: Tingo (slower)* <=* SHOONTH (faster) - both are good, but I like faster bass response (personal preference)
> mids (vocals):  Tingo < ShoonTH
> imaging:  Tingo < ShoonTH
> ...


Even with your judgement, it's a tie in terms of sound. 

I used to have a silver TG-38s with the "TC200" stamp, but I was not impressed with the sound of it.
Do you know if your Tingo TG-38s is a different product from that?

Is your Tingo TG-38s really a Tingo product?
Finally, where can we buy your Tingo TG-38s?


----------



## furyossa (Jun 18, 2021)

jogawag said:


> Even with your judgement, it's a tie in terms of sound.
> 
> I used to have a TG-38s with the "TC-100" stamp, but I was not impressed with the sound of it.
> Do you know if your Tingo TG-38s is a different product from that?
> ...


I never saw TC-100. I have TC-200, TC-400 i wont count because is fake and TG-38c. Tc-100 is probably the entry level model.

DIY Earphone Tribe Store: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32437597232.html
Chitty's Store: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32435966900.html
Now I want to explain something. The main image on these links looks like it has paracord beige cable, but the image is overexposed with yellow tint.
Also, you have branding on Y-spiter and plug. You will not get that cable, probably they replaced cable because new cable is softer.
OG cable is probably similar to TC-200 which is a bit rigid
Also Left and Right marks on the shell stem have white circle around letter. TC-200 has only L & R letters.



@FranQL found this link where they copied the entire text and images from the Taobao link. This store does not seem reliable to me


----------



## emusic13

cappuchino said:


> *Just curious, what is your "WOW" buds? The one that made you say, "d*mn, these sound awesome!"*
> 
> Looking to purchase another one as my MS16 is dying on me (I think it can be fixed with a recable which I can do, but if that's the case, then I won't have a reason to purchase a new earbud 😝)
> 
> ...


Newbsound


----------



## waynes world (Jun 18, 2021)

rkw said:


> Earbuds and running is an oxymoron because of the loose fit.
> 
> You could try silicon fins/hooks like those in the Venture Electronics Ex Pack.
> https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=14
> https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=earbud+hooks+silicone



"Running" + "waynes world" is an oxymoron lol. But I do jog, and I personally don't have any problems with buds staying put in my ears as long as (a) the cable is pliable and not stiff; (b) they fit snugly in my ears - usually with appropriate foams; and (c) they are not too heavy.



cappuchino said:


> *Just curious, what is your "WOW" buds? The one that made you say, "d*mn, these sound awesome!"*
> 
> Looking to purchase another one as my MS16 is dying on me (I think it can be fixed with a recable which I can do, but if that's the case, then I won't have a reason to purchase a new earbud 😝)
> 
> ...



Luckily for me, my "WOW" buds always seem to be the latest ones I put in my ears! 

PS: Right now, it's the Zen 1.0's. Classics.


----------



## jogawag

furyossa said:


> I never saw TC-100. I have TC-200, TC-400 i wont count because is fake and TG-38c. Tc-100 is probably the entry level model.
> 
> DIY Earphone Tribe Store: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32437597232.html
> Chitty's Store: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32435966900.html
> ...


Hmmm, a DIY product for the Tingo TG-38S...


----------



## mochill

emusic13 said:


> Newbsound


I also like newbsound earbuds 😁


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> Hmmm, a DIY product for the Tingo TG-38S...


I'm tried to find Thingo DIY driver but without lack. I don’t think it’s just selling a driver separately


----------



## axhng (Jun 19, 2021)

Been listening to the K's Earphone 64S more this morning. In my earlier post I mentioned based on a quick listen, I still like the Aurvana Air more, but after more time with the K64S, the tuning is growing on me, and it's a toss up for me now (still like the ME80 more though).  

The bass on the K64S seems a bit tighter, so the lower mids and mid bass sounds cleaner and clearer. But the Aurvana Air has a bit more upper mids energy which makes female vocals and brighter instruments shine a bit more. Detail retrieval I think might be a tad better on the K64s, but that extra upper mids give the Aurvana Air a bit more "perceived" clarity. So it's a toss up for me now just solely based on sound quality. Both are enjoyable in their own way to me. It'll be a different story if I factor in price though. Not to mention the cable on the K64S is so much better than the one on the Aurvana Air.


----------



## Tarnum

Having been 2 weeks of using K's LBBS, I'm totally satisfied. At last, I think I found my end-game for low-fi earbud (got them with 32$ through Shopee).
Sound impression (with 1 layer of thick full-foam): nicely detailed and balanced sound, bass is enough, treble is extended, mid is not forward or backward, sound-stage is so so.
-Compared to EA: LBBS is less in bass, sub-bass quantity but more detail and bigger 3D sound-stage, EA is kind of dark sound with a little bit muddy mid (only OK when using with 3-4 small holes full foam), off-treble and small sound-stage => overall, LBBS is much more enjoyable. 
-Compared to RW-9: RW-9 shows wider sound-stage with bigger bass and real sub-bass, make better initial wow effect but LBBS win in detail, treble extension, precise instruments position and not-backward mid => overall LBBS is more balanced and more all-rounded. However, RW-9 is greater for asking price. 
-Compared to my DIY PK1 Red-film 150ohm (with 7n copper cable, Oyaide plug): PK1 red-film has smoother performance, better in instruments sound and position, wider sound-stage but insufficient in bass quantity (however, very well response to EQ) and treble extension. Overall, PK1 Red-film is more relaxed, LBBS is more lively performance. 
K's LBBS is definitely worth for an all-rounded earbud recommendation.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 19, 2021)

Tarnum said:


> Having been 2 weeks of using K's LBBS, I'm totally satisfied. At last, I think I found my end-game for low-fi earbud (got them with 32$ through Shopee).
> Sound impression (with 1 layer of thick full-foam): nicely detailed and balanced sound, bass is enough, treble is extended, mid is not forward or backward, sound-stage is so so.
> -Compared to EA: LBBS is less in bass, sub-bass quantity but more detail and bigger 3D sound-stage, EA is kind of dark sound with a little bit muddy mid (only OK when using with 3-4 small holes full foam), off-treble and small sound-stage => overall, LBBS is much more enjoyable.
> -Compared to RW-9: RW-9 shows wider sound-stage with bigger bass and real sub-bass, make better initial wow effect but LBBS win in detail, treble extension, precise instruments position and not-backward mid => overall LBBS is more balanced and more all-rounded. However, RW-9 is greater for asking price.
> ...


Thank you so much for describing in detail what I also felt without being able to put it into proper words about the LBBS  ("my end-game for low-fi earbud" etc.) and for comparing them to various earbuds!

One thing I would like to say is that to increase the sub bass and bass of the LBBS you should try Double foams (Donut foam on full foam).


----------



## Tarnum

I think the thick full-foam works for me than double donut-full foam. Double donut-full foam I will only use for bright sounding and bass-lacking earbud.


----------



## jogawag

Tarnum said:


> I think the thick full-foam works for me than double donut-full foam. Double donut-full foam I will only use for bright sounding and bass-lacking earbud.


What exactly is the thick full-foam you are talking about? Can you give me a link so I can try it too?


----------



## furyossa (Jun 19, 2021)

jogawag said:


> Thank you so much for describing in detail what I also felt without being able to put it into proper words about the LBBS  ("my end-game for low-fi earbud" etc.) and for comparing them to various earbuds!
> 
> One thing I would like to say is that to increase the sub bass and bass of the LBBS you should try Double foams (Donut foam on full foam).





Tarnum said:


> I think the thick full-foam works for me than double donut-full foam. Double donut-full foam I will only use for bright sounding and bass-lacking earbud.


Last night I tried this "cold weather" foam  mode by @jogawag  , on the HiFi Boy Dream to see if I could soften the bright female vocals, but unfortunately nothing.  This mode mainly affects the fit. It seems to me like they didn't use the tuning cotton on the back of the driver, I'll have to check what's going on "under the hood"


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 30, 2021)

cappuchino said:


> *Just curious, what is your "WOW" buds? The one that made you say, "d*mn, these sound awesome!"*
> 
> Looking to purchase another one as my MS16 is dying on me (I think it can be fixed with a recable which I can do, but if that's the case, then I won't have a reason to purchase a new earbud 😝)
> 
> ...


I have been using earbuds since they first appeared back 1981/82 but never seriously considered them to be a high fidelity medium until very recently. So true _flat head enlightenment_ occurred rather late for me. Back in 2018 at a mobile audiophile meet-up in Bangkok I had the opportunity to listen to a number of different high quality earbuds and was thunderstruck by the medium's surprisingly advanced hi-fidelity sound.

The earbuds that particularly surprised me were a few high impedance models in the *PureSounds 醇声 PS100 Series *and a number of 300Ω models from _*Blur's First Series*_ which if I recall correctly were the *魔音 Magic Sound,  魔声/聲 Magic Voice*, and either a first or second generation of the_* 魔女 Witch*_. I ended up buying a new first edition *Blur 美魔女 Beautiful Witch* as the particular PureSounds model that I wanted was no longer available. Soon after I bought a second-hand pair of *魔音 Magic Sound* and then by shear luck was offered a pair of *PureSounds PS100-600S *in 600Ω the exact model that I had wanted in a trade with a Head-Fi member!

Recently, I have received a third, fourth, and fifth pair of Blurs which continue to impress and surprise me every time. I would be remiss to not mention another "wow!" earbud the *Ks BELL-Ti 120Ω* which I received in February but sadly they conked out on me after only three months of careful use... but they have since been repaired and I currently await their return any day now (a full update on the failure and repair is forthcoming, I promise ).

So a quick recap of my "wow!" earbuds in list form would be: *PureSounds, Blur, and Ksearphones*


----------



## jogawag (Jun 19, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Last night I tried this "cold weather" foam  mode by @jogawag  , on the HiFi Boy Dream to see if I could soften the bright female vocals, but unfortunately nothing.  This mode mainly affects the fit. It seems to me like they didn't use the tuning cotton on the back of the driver, I'll have to check what's going on "under the hood"


To increase the sub bass and bass only, but keep the treble and mid, you can use double foam (donut foam on top of full foam), which @furyossa called "cold weather" foam mode.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 19, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Last night I tried this "cold weather" foam  mode by @jogawag  , on the HiFi Boy Dream to see if I could soften the bright female vocals, but unfortunately nothing.  This mode mainly affects the fit. It seems to me like they didn't use the tuning cotton on the back of the driver, I'll have to check what's going on "under the hood"





jogawag said:


> double foam (donut foam on top of full foam), which @furyossa called "cold weather"


How clever; I like that phrase. I have duly added it to our *All About Earbud Cushions* post *here*




*

*


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> To increase the sub bass and bass only, but keep the treble and mid, you can use double foam (donut foam on top of full foam), which @furyossa called "cold weather" foam mode.


Foam don't do that, but better fit which your mod provide . In my case, because driver size is already big, by adding double foam I increased the overall diameter and get even worst fit which affect treble in the bad way. I don't said that your mod is bad, but it's not for every bud


----------



## FranQL (Jun 19, 2021)

furyossa said:


> But if you like soundtage in all 3 axis then Tingo TG-38s is the winner here



As it is strange to read such an explicit recommendation from @furyossa , I have bought a pair.

the recommendation of the blur of @WoodyLuvr  unfortunately for now they are out of my budget.

Edit: Vido: I don't think I will buy them, although the price of the link that @golov17  published is ridiculous price, but I do not want to accumulate buds focused on low mediums.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 19, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Foam don't do that, but better fit which your mod provide . In my case, because driver size is already big, by adding double foam I increased the overall diameter and get even worst fit which affect treble in the bad way. I don't said that your mod is bad, but it's not for every bud


I suspect that the Full foam you are using with Double foam is too thick...


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> How clever; I like that phrase. I have duly added it to our *All About Earbud Cushions* post *here*
> 
> 
> **


The full foam is like a hat and the donut foam is like a scarf, just everything you need for cold weather


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> I suspect that the Full foam you are using with Double foam is too thick...


They are not too thick but HiFi Boy Dream buds, similar to the HE150pro, has metal mesh cover which is slightly larger then standard MX500 cover (for 15.4mm drivers)
Fortunately they can be worn over the ears


----------



## jogawag (Jun 19, 2021)

furyossa said:


> They are not too thick but HiFi Boy Dream buds, similar to the HE150pro, has metal mesh cover which is slightly larger then standard MX500 cover (for 15.4mm drivers)
> Fortunately they can be worn over the ears


But, for the full foam used in the Double Foam, the bass will be felt more clearly if you use standard foam.
In addition, you will feel it more if you use thin/coarse foam like the one in the VE Pack.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Btw, are there other brands that uses the same/similar shell like the VE monk lite?





That shell is very comfortable...but the same cant be said about the sound (on the lite at least).


----------



## assassin10000 (Jun 19, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> How clever; I like that phrase. I have duly added it to our *All About Earbud Cushions* post *here*
> 
> 
> **


Nice!

Maybe you should add the modded offset donut to the list.

Here's a fresh pic of them on my DIY PK1 150Ω red film buds.




It actually measured between full and regular donut foams.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> Btw, are there other brands that uses the same/similar shell like the VE monk lite?
> 
> 
> 
> That shell is very comfortable...but the same cant be said about the sound (on the lite at least).


Edifier H180 and Qian 39​


----------



## WoodyLuvr

assassin10000 said:


> Nice!
> 
> Maybe you should add the modded offset donut to the list.
> 
> ...


I surely will add this! I will need to redo the post and join a number of the photos together.


----------



## rkw

jogawag said:


> What exactly is the thick full-foam you are talking about? Can you give me a link so I can try it too?


Hiegi brand is one example: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CBTOMV6 (also available at Penon and AliExpress).


----------



## jogawag (Jun 19, 2021)

rkw said:


> Hiegi brand is one example: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CBTOMV6 (also available at Penon and AliExpress).


Oh, I think the thickness of HIeGI's full foam is twice as thick as the standard foam.
I can certainly understand why you wouldn't want to put donut foam on HIeGI's full foam.


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> Oh, I think the thickness of HIeGI's full foam is twice as thick as the standard foam.
> I can certainly understand why you wouldn't want to put donut foam on HIeGI's full foam.


Yup, they thick but very good quality. I rarely use it, in 99% cases donut foams are my way to go


----------



## jogawag

WoodyLuvr said:


> Edifier H180 and Qian 39​


*DP100 and Long stem docomo *


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> *DP100 and Long stem docomo *


K314 shell by AKG


----------



## cqtek

Hello everyone.

Here is my humble opinion about the Hessian Ansata Pro.

I hope you like it.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/hessian-ansata-pro.25229/reviews#review-26108


----------



## RikudouGoku

Well well, how many of you guys are using the NiceHCK MX500? Perhaps you are looking for an upgrade? Well, stay tuned then.


----------



## chavez

RikudouGoku said:


> Well well, how many of you guys are using the NiceHCK MX500? Perhaps you are looking for an upgrade? Well, stay tuned then.


It all depends on the shipping costs hahahah. Waiting for Ancestor and some generic stuff.


----------



## RikudouGoku

chavez said:


> It all depends on the shipping costs hahahah. Waiting for Ancestor and some generic stuff.


Well, its certainly a lot more expensive than those you ordered (and also more expensive than the NiceHCK MX500 itself).


----------



## chavez

So around $15 mark?


----------



## RikudouGoku

chavez said:


> So around $15 mark?


50-200 usd. 

(if I gave a more specific price you would know which one I am talking about and that's no fun 😂)


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> 50-200 usd.
> 
> (if I gave a more specific price you would know which one I am talking about and that's no fun 😂)


But you certainly scared him with that price. He definitely wasn't counting on it


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> But you certainly scared him with that price. He definitely wasn't counting on it


yeah lol. Then again, I doubt you find an upgrade to the MX500 in that same price range...


----------



## furyossa (Jun 20, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> yeah lol. Then again, I doubt you find an upgrade to the MX500 in that same price range...


Don't be sure. 
DIY 130ohm Beryllium  and probably one of DIY 19-21KHz 32ohms


----------



## chavez

RikudouGoku said:


> 50-200 usd.
> 
> (if I gave a more specific price you would know which one I am talking about and that's no fun 😂)


Aaaaand im out 😂.


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> DIY 130ohm Beryllium


Not to me and they are tuned differently anyway.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Not to me and they are tuned differently anyway.


It's not okay to compare an exotic high impedance driver with 16ohm basic driver. My bad, but are you really think that even if they tuned the same way that NiceHck MX500 can be better? 
Just look at that abs  6-pack man!


----------



## jeejack

130 bery and 19 21 - 32 ohm are much better than the Nicehck mx500. I have them all


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> It's not okay to compare an exotic high impedance driver with 16ohm basic driver. My bad, but are you really think that even if they tuned the same way that NiceHck MX500 can be better?
> Just look at that abs  6-pack man!


The important aspect is the tuning. they could use whatever exotic material and if they dont tune it as good it wont be as good. Simple as that.


The Blon Bl-03 and the Periodic Audio BE are 2 examples of this in the iem world. The BE is (claimed) a pure BE driver but it is inferior to the 03 due to it having worse tuning.


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> 130 bery and 19 21 - 32 ohm are much better than the Nicehck mx500. I have them all


That's my man


----------



## furyossa (Jun 20, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> The important aspect is the tuning. they could use whatever exotic material and if they dont tune it as good it wont be as good. Simple as that.
> 
> 
> The Blon Bl-03 and the Periodic Audio BE are 2 examples of this in the iem world. The BE is (claimed) a pure BE driver but it is inferior to the 03 due to it having worse tuning.


I agree with that, but in this case other members can confirm which one is better. I own 3 pairs of 130ohm Bery's and I tried 5-6 different types of shell. Don't work well in some, but in MX500 and some metal shells it shines. Of course, don't expect to throw the driver in the shell and "call it a day". All DIY driver requires a "final" touch


----------



## FranQL (Jun 20, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> The important aspect is the tuning. they could use whatever exotic material and if they dont tune it as good it wont be as good. Simple as that.
> 
> 
> The Blon Bl-03 and the Periodic Audio BE are 2 examples of this in the iem world. The BE is (claimed) a pure BE driver but it is inferior to the 03 due to it having worse tuning.


I don't know, I'm a bit freaked out by that statement about the mx500 ... well, how did you use the BL3 blon, I'll stick to that example, I have four sets of blon ... and they all sound different ... so the issue of "tuned" should be linked to quality control, and here, there is much to improve on low budgets.


----------



## RikudouGoku

FranQL said:


> I don't know, I'm a bit freaked out by that statement about the mx500 ... well, how did you use the BL3 blon, I'll stick to that example, I have four sets of blon ... and they all sound different ... so the issue of "tuned" should be linked to quality control, and here, there is much to improve on low budgets.


Well...if you bring in QC into the table, I dont really know what to think about most of these 0-10 usd buds. They are obviously mass produced to keep the prices low but QC might get thrown out the window with that...


----------



## FranQL

RikudouGoku said:


> Well...if you bring in QC into the table, I dont really know what to think about most of these 0-10 usd buds. They are obviously mass produced to keep the prices low but QC might get thrown out the window with that...


That's what I mean, they are great budget, but I do not consider them a reference within the 0-50 €, at least in my opinion.


----------



## furyossa

This 0 -20 usd buds use $2 drivers and other parts have similar price. By adding logo the price jump to $20


----------



## RikudouGoku

FranQL said:


> That's what I mean, they are great budget, but I do not consider them a reference within the 0-50 €, at least in my opinion.


To me the NiceHCK MX500 is in the top 3 until you reach the 100 usd area where you start to see proper upgrades.


----------



## Narayan23 (Jun 20, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Well well, how many of you guys are using the NiceHCK MX500? Perhaps you are looking for an upgrade? Well, stay tuned then.


Not using the MX500 but will most likely buy them since you speak so highly of them, I would be interested to read your thoughts on an upgrade to them.

On another note, I just got the FAAEAL Iris Ancestor 32 ohm and I find them rather bad, bloated, boomy bass and recessed mids that make the Yincrow X6 sound like a TOTL bud, they lasted a mere 30 seconds in my ears and were relegated to "give as a gift" status and then to "I wouldn´t do this to a friend so I´ll keep the foams and thrown them away" status, I don´t have them now but I remember the RY4S sounding much better, those for me are the true cheapo champs.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Narayan23 said:


> Not using the MX500 but will most likely buy them since you speak so highly of them, I would be interested to read your thoughts on an upgrade to them.
> 
> On another note, I just got the FAAEAL Iris Ancestor 32 ohm and I find them rather bad, bloated, boomy bass and recessed mids that make the Yincrow X6 sound like a TOTL bud, they lasted a mere 30 seconds in my ears and were relegated to "give as a gift" status and then to "I wouldn´t do this to a friend so I´ll keep the foams and thrown them away" status, I don´t have them now but I remember the RY4S sounding much better, those for me are the true cheapo champs.


Wonder if the QC is just that bad with them being a 4 usd bud....


----------



## chavez

Narayan23 said:


> Not using the MX500 but will most likely buy them since you speak so highly of them, I would be interested to read your thoughts on an upgrade to them.
> 
> On another note, I just got the FAAEAL Iris Ancestor 32 ohm and I find them rather bad, bloated, boomy bass and recessed mids that make the Yincrow X6 sound like a TOTL bud, they lasted a mere 30 seconds in my ears and were relegated to "give as a gift" status and then to "I wouldn´t do this to a friend so I´ll keep the foams and thrown them away" status, I don´t have them now but I remember the RY4S sounding much better, those for me are the true cheapo champs.


Why would Faaeal bother to release something that bad tho? Maybe it was QC issue.


----------



## furyossa

Ok "OPEN SEASON" (Ali summer sale) starting in a few hours. I wish good lack and happy hunting to all bud-hunters   
I hope that this season will be successful and that we will have a lot to talk about here


----------



## jogawag (Jun 21, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Wonder if the QC is just that bad with them being a 4 usd bud....


I wrote this before, but the QC in China is so bad that even $350 Onmyoji buds which left side had almost no sound.
I think Chinese manufacturers think their customers are testers. Well, that's natural to some extent for products that are too cheap, but the same treatment for $300 products is...
And return postal fee was almost on my own.


----------



## Narayan23

RikudouGoku said:


> Wonder if the QC is just that bad with them being a 4 usd bud....





chavez said:


> Why would Faaeal bother to release something that bad tho? Maybe it was QC issue.


You´re probably right regarding the QC, I´m also not the biggest believer in burn in and I can´t be bothered to give them more time because life´s too short to listen through bad gear, the loss is also minimal.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jogawag said:


> I wrote this before, but the QC in China is so bad that even $350 Onmyoji buds which left side had almost no sound.
> And return postal fee was almost on my own.


Its the curse of chi-fi...

I dont demand top tier QC for all these budget buds in the 0-10 usd range...but when we get to the 100+ area, I sure want it to be good...


----------



## HombreCangrejo

I have both MX500 and RY4S Plus. I think the NiceHCK are really good, not only for the price, but in my opinion the Plus are better in every way. The MX500, in comparison, sound hollow, and with a certain veil. The Plus, instead, sound more open, with more detailed bass (not only quality, but also quantity) and crispier. The real upgrade to the Plus came at home with the M2s Pro, to the point that I have ordered the 150 Ohm gold driver.

Don't take me wrong, the MX500 is really good, and what I call better could simply be a different sound profile for others, but I think the Plus are something special and great, that deserves everyone giving it a try. Even considering the Smabat is superior, I won't miss the chance to buy the 300 Ohm version, that in words of an appreciated member of a spanish forum, is more refined than the Plus.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 21, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Its the curse of chi-fi...
> 
> I dont demand top tier QC for all these budget buds in the 0-10 usd range...but when we get to the 100+ area, I sure want it to be good...


When you want to buy earbuds of over $100, you should preferably choose to buy from Amazon, if possible.
I actually decided to buy the Old Green smabat st-10 from Amazon. This made it very easy to replace the Shell which had a faulty MMCX component.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jogawag said:


> When you are in the area of over100, you should preferably choose to buy from Amazon.
> I actually decided to buy the Old Green smabat st-10 from Amazon. This made it very easy to replace the Shell which had a faulty MMCX component.


Not always possible as most buds arent there....


----------



## furyossa (Jun 20, 2021)

HombreCangrejo said:


> I have both MX500 and RY4S Plus. I think the NiceHCK are really good, not only for the price, but in my opinion the Plus are better in every way. The MX500, in comparison, sound hollow, and with a certain veil. The Plus, instead, sound more open, with more detailed bass (not only quality, but also quantity) and crispier. The real upgrade to the Plus came at home with the M2s Pro, to the point that I have ordered the 150 Ohm gold driver.
> 
> Don't take me wrong, the MX500 is really good, and what I call better could simply be a different sound profile for others, but I think the Plus are something special and great, that deserves everyone giving it a try. Even considering the Smabat is superior, I won't miss the chance to buy the 300 Ohm version, that in words of an appreciated member of a spanish forum, is more refined than the Plus.


There is split opinion about Plus and 300ohm version. The Plus is the latest version of OG and 300ohm. And you are right about Plus, amazing value for the money.
I suspect that NiceHCK use similar or the same driver like EMX500 15.4mm (OG EMX500 was 14.8mm)


----------



## axhng (Jun 20, 2021)

Narayan23 said:


> Not using the MX500 but will most likely buy them since you speak so highly of them, I would be interested to read your thoughts on an upgrade to them.
> 
> On another note, I just got the FAAEAL Iris Ancestor 32 ohm and I find them rather bad, bloated, boomy bass and recessed mids that make the Yincrow X6 sound like a TOTL bud, they lasted a mere 30 seconds in my ears and were relegated to "give as a gift" status and then to "I wouldn´t do this to a friend so I´ll keep the foams and thrown them away" status, I don´t have them now but I remember the RY4S sounding much better, those for me are the true cheapo champs.


It could be QC I guess. I got a pair of Iris CE a while back and my unit doesn't sound like what others have heard, and sounds worse than some cheaper buds I have. So pretty sure there are some issues with mine. 😂 But of course not ruling out difference in personal preference as well. I find it not that bad for me still. Bass is a bit bloated for me, but it's kinda like that with most cheaper buds that I think tries to go for a warmer and more analogue sounding tonality (k's nameless, kbear stellar). But the mids for me sounded okay still. I think it's a small step up from the vidos i've tried, but nothing really mind blowing. I find that 10 dollars is usually where I get that clear step up. Around the same price as the ancestor, I think the nicehck traceless is probably still more my cup of tea, though i know some might not be a fan of the leaner sound overall.


----------



## baskingshark (Jun 21, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Don't be sure.
> DIY 130ohm Beryllium  and probably one of DIY 19-21KHz 32ohms





jeejack said:


> 130 bery and 19 21 - 32 ohm are much better than the Nicehck mx500. I have them all



Bros, have read that beryllium is toxic to process. I know the beryllium driver comes already manufactured and in solid form it is harmless, but please take precautions when soldering and hope the driver dome itself doesn't get damaged in the DIY process!

https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/diseases/beryllium.html

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/396321/Focal-Utopia-Beryllium.html?page=2#manual



Even focal utopia has some warning in the manual about the beryllium driver!







But I'm sure u guys are pros in the DIY buds arena, so maybe this warning is for newbies like me at soldering when it comes to dealing with beryllium gear.




furyossa said:


> Ok "OPEN SEASON" (Ali summer sale) starting in a few hours. I wish good lack and happy hunting to all bud-hunters
> I hope that this season will be successful and that we will have a lot to talk about here



Anybody see any good discounts for well regarded buds?


----------



## jogawag (Jun 21, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> ...
> 
> Anybody see any good discounts for well regarded buds?


I recommend LBBS as well regarded buds for US $46.80 when sales start in.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html


----------



## uneri (Jun 24, 2021)

‎


----------



## WoodyLuvr

baskingshark said:


> Bros, have read that beryllium is toxic to process. I know the beryllium driver comes already manufactured and in solid form it is harmless, but please take precautions when soldering and hope the driver dome itself doesn't get damaged in the DIY process!
> 
> https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/diseases/beryllium.html
> 
> ...


As long as you don't sand, grind, or directly burn the diaphragms and inhale the resulting dust or fumes one should be perfectly safe. Beryllium poisoning is most always by inhalation and absorption by the lungs.


----------



## baskingshark

WoodyLuvr said:


> As long as you don't sand, grind, or directly burn the diaphragms and inhale the resulting dust or fumes one should be perfectly safe. Beryllium poisoning is most always by inhalation and absorption by the lungs.



Good advise.

Though do beryllium containing drivers break down over time? Or say during soldering or DIY tasks, if one accidentally damages the diaphragm, that's what I'm worried about.



Anyway, beryllium is also all the rage for drivers in 2020. Seems most CHIFI wanna ride on the beryllium hypetrain. I suspect a few companies are namedropping Beryllium just to stand out from the ultra tough competition at the budget segment. Some beryllium gear I've heard (in IEMs), really have great textured bass and they take EQ like a champ, I consider those to be hallmarks of sorts for beryllium sets. But I've heard other so called beryllium products that don't sound that way, they don't sound any different from conventional drivers. Possibly the companies just sprinkled a few flakes of beryllium and called it a day, not sure if the beryllium in this case even contributes to the sound or is just a marketing gimmick.


----------



## wskl

Here are some promo codes for the AE Summer Sale which some of you may find useful.  From experience these promo codes are limited in use, so I would use them early on during the sale before they are taken by others.
https://promossale.com/aliexpress-coupons-promo-codes-and-deals/

I ordered the Yincrow RW-2000 and managed to get the price down to $98
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001658760523.html



Spoiler






(1) Store discount of $7 for spending at least $115
(2) From the "$3 off every $30 spent" deal, I save $12
(3) Promo code "618ALI11" to get additional $11 discount


----------



## Ronion

uneri said:


> Cheaper at this store (~USD 38), left only a couple remaining in stock (LBBs is option: BellLBs Black no mic)
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002787930610.html


How do you find the comfort?  Better than MX500 shells?


----------



## uneri (Jun 24, 2021)

‎


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 21, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Good advise.
> 
> Though do beryllium containing drivers break down over time? Or say during soldering or DIY tasks, if one accidentally damages the diaphragm, that's what I'm worried about.
> 
> ...


Industrial beryllium comes in three forms: pure metal, as beryllium oxide, and most commonly, as an alloy with aluminum, copper, magnesium, or nickel. Although it is lightweight, brittle, and rather soft beryllium is astoundingly strong; non-magnetic; and has an insanely high melting point (thus why it is used in nuclear reactors). It is totally unaffected by air or water (even at red heat temperatures) thus one reason why it is used in headphone drivers, it doesn't easily oxidize.

*Beryllium in solid form is inert and thus completely safe.* So much so it can be, and is, handled every day without any safety precautions required (eye, mouth, or hand protection). It is thoroughly used throughout the aviation industry for gears, cogs, weapon systems, and structural materials. It is heavily used in tooling; gyroscopes; springs; and in expensive golf clubs. It is also extensively used as a hardening agent in many alloys we come into contact on a daily basis and even may have implanted into our bodies. So beryllium in solid form is mildly alkaline and totally benign. If you should happen to swallow a piece of beryllium or even a flake or chip (don't know why you would want to do that though unless you are hiding an emerald or something) you will quickly excrete it through urine and feces with no ill effect as it is completely water-insoluble and will not be absorbed by your body.

*The real danger lays in beryllium dust and fumes as a result of very high temperatures and/or super-levels of machining*. When breathed in and absorbed by the lungs beryllium becomes shockingly toxic and carcinogenic... one of the most toxic chemicals we know leading to an incurable inflammation of the lungs called berylliosis.

With that said, this concerning dust and fumes is not so easily achieved. It takes an incredible amount of sanding or grinding (heavy abrasive machining) before the concerning fine dust level even occurs and/or it must be baked/heated to ridiculous temperatures before it produces fumes. Typical 'tooling' of beryllium will not achieve either of these concerning states. The danger typically occurs when it is used as a hardening agent in the creation of alloys at very high temperatures; under heavy industrial machining; and/or in the resulting fire after a military aircraft crash where the burning aviation fuel plus munitions will get the temperatures high enough to create beryllium fumes along with a host of many other toxics chemicals).


----------



## axhng

Good info about the beryllium stuff. Was thinking that maybe I should try and re-shell the jcally ep09 to see if it will change the sound in a good direction. I don't listen to them much anyway.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Who tried new Rose Maria II 14.8mm/16mm? I would like a brief description of the sound.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 21, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> .... *But I've heard other so called beryllium products that don't sound that way, they don't sound any different from conventional drivers. Possibly the companies just sprinkled a few flakes of beryllium and called it a day, not sure if the beryllium in this case even contributes to the sound or is just a marketing gimmick.*


I already stated this


furyossa said:


> I agree with that, but in this case other members can confirm which one is better. I own 3 pairs of 130ohm Bery's and I tried 5-6 different types of shell. Don't work well in some, but in MX500 and some metal shells it shines. *Of course, don't expect to throw the driver in the shell and "call it a day". All DIY driver requires a "final" touch *


Ok first I need to point out that we talk about beryllium coated drivers, not pure beryllium one which are expensive and not seen jet in any earbuds.
There a few DIY drivers (low impedance) 8-10 mm These drivers are intended for IEM and are mainly tuned to cover low frequencies in hybrid solutions, and BA, Piezo, EST will cover everything else. But I see that some use these drivers as 1DD solution for small "nozzle" buds and expect to sound right. These are bass cannons.
One of an example is the MSUR C210. (amazing workmanship, terrible cable, bass covers mids and touches the treble ).

Going up we have DIY 14.8mm 120ohm which did not attract much attention because the stock sound is not very good and requires professional tuning. We also have some composite drivers where is only dome coated with beryllium (I didn't try it jet).

Lastly, there are two great drivers (DIY 15.4mm) that are highly praised in the DIY community: 130ohm driver aka. "6-pack" and 600ohm driver, aka. "Papa Bery".
These two have good stock sound (authoritative bass) and great potential for tuning, where you can adjust other frequencies to your liking.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 21, 2021)

axhng said:


> Good info about the beryllium stuff. Was thinking that maybe I should try and re-shell the jcally ep09 to see if it will change the sound in a good direction. I don't listen to them much anyway.


Leave ep09 for comparison, get DIY 130ohm driver and play with that. With drivers, you will get MX500 shells, and you need only the cable.
I suggest these two from the same store:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001613178617.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000834974119.html

BTW... if you don't like MX500 shells you can try some metallic shells also. In my inventory you can find examples of different "mods" for this driver where I tested 3 different shells


----------



## RikudouGoku

My sale ended as soon as it started lol.


Faaeal iris 2.0
Faaeal iris ancestor
Faaeal iris CE grey version
K's LBBS


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> My sale ended as soon as it started lol.
> 
> 
> Faaeal iris 2.0
> ...


That's what I call "Fast Hunting". I guess you haven't run out of ammunition


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> That's what I call "Fast Hunting". I guess you haven't run out of ammunition


Nah, im done. Nothing else interest me at the moment.


----------



## axhng

furyossa said:


> Leave ep09 for comparison, get DIY 130ohm driver and play with that. With drivers, you will get MX500 shells, and you need only the cable.
> I suggest these two from the same store:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001613178617.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000834974119.html
> ...


Those seems to be very widely recommended. the driver plus cable is around 22 USD during the sale. But on the other hand, with coupons or other discount mechanisms, I can get the K's LBBS at around 26 USD on Shopee which is also quite tempting.  I'm still not the most confident when it comes to soldering, so the possibility of killing the drivers is still a bit of a concern. Being able to practice play with stuff i already have and don't use anymore is a little easier on the heart wallet if they do break. That cable looks nice for something so cheap though. 

At this point I feel like the EP09 is not very valuable as a point of comparison, since barely anyone has it and I have other buds I enjoy more than that. On a somewhat related note, I recently took drivers from the haylou gt1 plus and put them in a spare MH755 shell i had lying around, and it sounded terrible and nothing like how it sounded before, so I'm also somewhat curious about how the shape of the shell, venting, etc, might affect the sound too.  but we'll see how it goes. Still have a few IEMs on its way to me, so enough to scratch the itch... for now.


----------



## n00b (Jun 21, 2021)

looool i decided to sleep on my cart and decide if i really wanted stuff and everything is sold out or the coupons are no longer valid. i will choose peace

my good luck from the 2019 sale getting ME80s has run out i guess. congrats to everyone who got LBBs and whatnot

EDIT: wait Fiio EM5s are $50 off on amazon rn...


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 24, 2021)

Please meet Blur's newest model the Special Limited Ultimate Basshead Edition *Blur 256 White Face (PK 16Ω; No. 1)*
More information and pics are over on the _*Blur Earbuds Lovers*_ thread *here*


----------



## furyossa (Jun 21, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Please meet Blur's newest model the Special - Limited Ultimate Basshead Edition *Blur 256 White Face (PK 16Ω; No. 1)*
> More information and pics are over on the _*Blur Earbuds Lovers*_ thread *here*


Mr. WL you are a great promoter for Blur buds.


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> Mr. WL you are a great promoter for Blur buds for sure.


It left me with my mouth open ..... it's a great commercial


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> It left me with my mouth open ..... it's a great commercial


Me too


----------



## Alteria

axhng said:


> It could be QC I guess. I got a pair of Iris CE a while back and my unit doesn't sound like what others have heard, and sounds worse than some cheaper buds I have. So pretty sure there are some issues with mine. 😂 But of course not ruling out difference in personal preference as well. I find it not that bad for me still. Bass is a bit bloated for me, but it's kinda like that with most cheaper buds that I think tries to go for a warmer and more analogue sounding tonality (k's nameless, kbear stellar). But the mids for me sounded okay still. I think it's a small step up from the vidos i've tried, but nothing really mind blowing. I find that 10 dollars is usually where I get that clear step up. Around the same price as the ancestor, I think the nicehck traceless is probably still more my cup of tea, though i know some might not be a fan of the leaner sound overall.


Yeah I bought the FAAEAL Iris CE 2-3 months ago and the bass was bloated on mine as well, soundstage wasn't as wide as the NiceHCK MX500 or Traceless too. Was wondering if there's a QC issue too since some people said it sounds great which lead me to buying it qwq


----------



## n00b (Jun 21, 2021)

alright nerds, i placed an order for the Fiio EM5 just to satisfy the curiosity and take advantage of free returns on amazon. i hear they need three decades of burn in though so i'll do my best within the 30 day return period. but my hope is that i can have a really versatile stable of buds between the EBX21 (best fit and cable versatility), Chaconne (really good upper mid and treble), EM5 (cable termination versatility and maybe satisfying low end).

I am still new to earbuds and kinda don't want to spend a lot of time waiting on trying cheaper buds which is why I'm willing to go TOTL and hopefully not visit this thread for another 5 years, but part of me thinks I'd have have been fine with X6s and ME80s this whole time lol

edit: also, current tip rolling im messing with on the chaconne is silicone ring then single thick donut foam. Bass isn't as full but I get that nice clarity and the fit security is a lot better with the silicone's extra grip  Otherwise, foamies would move around especially with how heavy the chaconne are


----------



## RikudouGoku

n00b said:


> alright nerds, i placed an order for the Fiio EM5 just to satisfy the curiosity and take advantage of free returns on amazon. i hear they need three decades of burn in though so i'll do my best within the 30 day return period. but my hope is that i can have a really versatile stable of buds between the EBX21 (best fit and cable versatility), Chaconne (really good upper mid and treble), EM5 (cable termination versatility and maybe satisfying low end).
> 
> I am still new to earbuds and kinda don't want to spend a lot of time waiting on trying cheaper buds which is why I'm willing to go TOTL and hopefully not visit this thread for another 5 years, but part of me thinks I'd have have been fine with X6s and ME80s this whole time lol


You still need the X6 though.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> You still need the X6 though.


You're very persistent


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> You're very persistent



My children have asked me for an X6 each, just from seeing it written so many times, and they don't know English ...


----------



## n00b (Jun 21, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> You still need the X6 though.


lol they are affordable and available enough that i don't feel any urgency to try them yet. i think I would like a pair since my phone is a 2016 iPhone SE with 3.5mm jack still, so I'd use them for that/apple lossless. But in general I prefer 4.4mm balanced and dedicated DAPs which is why the cheaper buds with nonreplaceable 3.5mm cables are not so exciting to me (I realize sonically it doesn't make that much of a difference if I can get enough power, and I can).

I was going to throw in the x6's and the LBBs from that same seller but I dropped the ball and the k's went out of stock..

edit: i also got the ikko OH10 on sale recently (an IEM) to satisfy the sub-bass I'm missing from buds. highly rec those at their sub-$150 price right now, but that's off topic


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> You're very persistent


It is that good. 




FranQL said:


> My children have asked me for an X6 each, just from seeing it written so many times, and they don't know English ...


Better teach them early about buds before they look down on them like everyone else lol. 




n00b said:


> lol they are affordable and available enough that i don't feel any urgency to try them yet. i think I would like a pair since my phone is a 2016 iPhone SE with 3.5mm jack still, so I'd use them for that/apple lossless. But in general I prefer 4.4mm balanced and dedicated DAPs which is why the cheaper buds with nonreplaceable 3.5mm cables are not so exciting to me (I realize sonically it doesn't make that much of a difference if I can get enough power, and I can).
> 
> I was going to throw in the x6's and the LBBs from that same seller but I dropped the ball and the k's went out of stock..


Lets hope it doesnt get discontinued (like the NiceHCK ME80 and others) then.


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> My children have asked me for an X6 each, just from seeing it written so many times, and they don't know English ...


      
Don't you dare translate for them what X6 means


----------



## assassin10000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Ordered a spare LBBS (w/mic), gonna attempt another MMCX mod. Not the same as the other one I already did.









furyossa said:


> Don't you dare translate for them what X6 means.


Or maybe do so.  



RikudouGoku said:


> Better teach them early about buds before they look down on them like everyone else lol.


----------



## FranQL (Jun 21, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Better teach them early about buds before they look down on them like everyone else lol.


Although they are small, they have already taken over some iem, and ignore from their BT headphones, only cable ... now they ask about my buds.


----------



## Сomrade

RikudouGoku,​When will the Smabat M2S Pro review be published?
Or did I miss it?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Сomrade said:


> RikudouGoku,​When will the Smabat M2S Pro review be published?
> Or did I miss it?


Somewhere between tomorrow and thursday.


----------



## assassin10000

A couple excerpts from my post about the Earin A-3 TWS earbuds here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/post-16418594

They sound a bit better than I recall the Sabbat X12 Pro (but maybe not better than the newer X12 Ultra). Unfortunately I cannot directly compare them as I modded both pairs of those.

The main contender for me though is the Samsung Buds Live, as both are an open, non-isolating TWS. I am using a non-Samsung Android source, so Apt-X on the A-3 but AAC on the Buds Live.






After listening to both (A/B, no EQ) I find the A-3 has a slight veil to the sound or a bit less resolution in comparison. I find bass to reach a little deeper, sound a hair cleaner and have slightly better impact from the Buds Live. The mids and highs similarly are a bit better overall. The slight difference due to the veil/lack of resolution makes the A-3 sound like something is missing or sucked out somewhere in the mids (for me).
_________________________________________

I took measurements of both with a digital caliper (length, height and thickness).

Earin A-3: 20.0mm x 17.1mm x 15.9mm
Buds Live: 27.4mm x 16.5mm x 14.9mm (14.7mm x 10.7mm)

The part of the Buds Live that covers the ear canal opening though is only 14.7mm tall and 10.7mm thick. Which is why they fit much better for me.


----------



## digititus

WoodyLuvr said:


> Please meet Blur's newest model the Special - Limited Ultimate Basshead Edition *Blur 256 White Face (PK 16Ω; No. 1)*
> More information and pics are over on the _*Blur Earbuds Lovers*_ thread *here*


Very interesting. If only I had a social media account I could make inquiries.


----------



## siderak

n00b said:


> alright nerds, i placed an order for the Fiio EM5 just to satisfy the curiosity and take advantage of free returns on amazon. i hear they need three decades of burn in though so i'll do my best within the 30 day return period. but my hope is that i can have a really versatile stable of buds between the EBX21 (best fit and cable versatility), Chaconne (really good upper mid and treble), EM5 (cable termination versatility and maybe satisfying low end).
> 
> I am still new to earbuds and kinda don't want to spend a lot of time waiting on trying cheaper buds which is why I'm willing to go TOTL and hopefully not visit this thread for another 5 years, but part of me thinks I'd have have been fine with X6s and ME80s this whole time lol
> 
> edit: also, current tip rolling im messing with on the chaconne is silicone ring then single thick donut foam. Bass isn't as full but I get that nice clarity and the fit security is a lot better with the silicone's extra grip  Otherwise, foamies would move around especially with how heavy the chaconne are


You inspired me. 
Just ordered the em5. 
The price drop and return possibility convinced me. 
Been really curious about it for a couple of months so now I’ll get to find out for myself.
I’m very interested in hearing how it stacks up to the swd2+ and all my blurs.


----------



## Ronion

It's an X6 afternoon.  \m/


----------



## RikudouGoku

Btw, any news on the Bell-Ti Onmyoji 2021?






Any info on the price or release date?


----------



## Luis1316

RikudouGoku said:


> Btw, any news on the Bell-Ti Onmyoji 2021?
> 
> 
> 
> Any info on the price or release date?


It's the "Black White version" that I bought months ago.


----------



## uneri (Jun 24, 2021)

‎


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> You still need the X6 though.





furyossa said:


> Don't you dare translate for them what X6 means




Haha @RikudouGoku are u by any chance referring to the TRN X6 IEM? 
That was a flop in most reviews


----------



## aspire5550

FYI everyone.

Just found out that Moondrop Chaconne's actual name is 夏空,pronounced in 'xia kong', which loosely sounds like 'chaconne'.
夏空 means Summer Sky in translation. Which I personally think is a much nicer name. Moondrop Summer Sky.

Oh, since I'm on the topic(im sure someone mentioned this before, seeing how big moondrop is, as a brand).

Moondrop's chinese name is 水月雨 (shui yue yu), word for word translation is water moon rain.
水 = water
月 = moon
雨 = rain

My own interpretation on how they got the name:
from water and rain, we can get rain drop, add in the moon => moon drop.


----------



## Question2 (Jun 22, 2021)

Okay, so my NiceHCK PK1 arrived today (same drivers as the NiceHCK MX500). I'm testing it out now and the first thing that I noticed was that the clarity seems to be significantly worse than the Ksearphone Little black bell S. With the earphones plugged into my Fiio Q1 (the old version, mark 1)...i'm not sure how to describe this, but everything sounds softer and harder to hear somehow. I actually had to crank up the volume on the DAC with the PK1. With the LBBS, everything sounded very clear at a lower volume.

Anyone might know why? Is it because the LBBS is 30 ohms while the PK1 is 16 ohms?

Edit : After cranking up the volume, the PK1 does sound much better than my initial impressions.

The LBBS definately has much better bass than the PK1 as well. I can definately say that the LBBS sounds much better than the yuin pk2s i was using (the one with the gray color logo, according to nightrhyme, the yuins with the white color logo sound much better, but i dont have one to test that). Im not sure if the PK1 sounds better than the yuin pk2s yet.

That said the PK1 is a $15 earbud so the fact that it can compete with much higher priced earbuds is pretty amazing in of itself. I got my LBBS on sale for about $30 USD so I dont feel like I overpaid at all for the quality. These are just my initial impressions which may change...going to keep testing these. I don't know how to describe the sound i'm hearing properly though (terms like treble, etc), does anyone have any tips for that?

Some misc observations :

-The LBBS are smaller than usual, but it fits me fine. I prefer the PK shell though in terms of fit and comfort. The design of the LBBS shell makes it rather awkard to pick up, I find the PK shell easier to pick up. If you find the LBBS too small, try using foams to improve the fit.

-One thing I dont like about the LBBS is that the metallic part gets cold easily compared to the plastic PK shell, which is kind of annoying in air conditioned environments. Not a big deal though.

-The braided cable of the PK1 is very rough to the touch, the LBBS has a smooth cable which definately wins here.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Luis1316 said:


> It's the "Black White version" that I bought months ago.





uneri said:


> It's been out since the start of 2021, and this latest version should be the one that the NiceHCK store is selling at the moment.
> 
> For the 2021 version, the Ks logo (which indicates right side) is now on the silver color earbud, instead of the black on the old version.
> There's also been changes in the plug & wooden box design, and reportedly a very slightly thinner chamber, as well as improvement in the sound.
> ...


oh, lol.




baskingshark said:


> Haha @RikudouGoku are u by any chance referring to the TRN X6 IEM?
> That was a flop in most reviews


Ironically, I dont even have any TRN products (maybe one or 2 cables though). Yincrow X6 it is and you need one as well.


----------



## Green Apple

Hi all,

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I'm a little confused by the DIY concept.

I have strange ears, LOL, and have trouble making normal in-ears fit - I usually have to turn them upside down to get any kind of seal, and IEMs are out of the question. Anyway, I would like to try some cheap buds to see if they work better for my peculiar anatomy. If they do, I have a whole new world opened up before me! I'm considering:

Fengru EMX500
Fengru TC200
Faael Snow Lotus
VE Monk Plus
Audio Technica ATH-C505
KBear Stellar
Moondrop ShiroYuki
Ty Hi-Z

Wow, sorry, that's quite a list -- and I know there's like a gazillion more out there. All of these are available and fairly cheap here in Thailand, but the Fengru product listings in particular always say something like *DIY *Fengru Tingo TC200 or *DIY* Fengru EMX500.

Does DIY mean that these are Fengru copies? Or can I probably assume they are made by Fengru? Is this even a sensical question? I'm interested because people around here seem to really love the EMX500 and the TC200, and I guess I would  want the real article.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any information you can provide, and please feel free to offer opinions on my choices or any other suggestions.

PS: I posted almost the same questions on the >>Absolute best budget earbuds?<< thread - not sure if that's ok...


----------



## Question2 (Jun 22, 2021)

Green Apple said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Sorry if this has been asked before, but I'm a little confused by the DIY concept.
> 
> ...


I suspect "DIY" is just a thing aliexpress sellers like to use..."DIY" usually means that its a custom made job by an individual but aliexpress sellers are clearly not using it in the same context...I will see if the NiceHCK store can shed some light on this since the PK1 that I bought also has "DIY" in the name (or at least their listing does)

I was also recommended the NiceHCK MX500. I got the PK1 version (same driver, PK shell). Im testing it out now actually, not sure what to think of it yet. When I crank up the volume, it does sound pretty good, I initially tried listening at the same volume that I was using for the 30 ohms K's LBBS and it was way too soft. I dont know if the Fengru EMX500 and NiceHCK MX500 use the same driver though...wonder if anyone has tried checking....


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Ironically, I dont even have any TRN products (maybe one or 2 cables though). *Yincrow X6 it is and you need one as well*.


Here we go again    
Yesterday @Сomrade ask you about M2Pro review, you told him it would be in day or two, but you forgot to tell him to get an X6 pair in the meantime. 
You made great omission just to know


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Here we go again
> Yesterday @Сomrade ask you about M2Pro review, you told him it would be in day or two, but you forgot to tell him to get an X6 pair in the meantime.
> You made great omission just to know


I have already told everyone to get the X6 enough times lol.


----------



## baskingshark (Jun 22, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> I have already told everyone to get the X6 enough times lol.



Yeah boss @RikudouGoku keeps recommending X6 to me every time I talk to him hahaha. I hope to get it some day.

But from what I read, I think the X6 is kinda like the BLON BL-03 of the earbud world (correct me if I'm mistaken). Ie excellent timbre and tonality, but maybe not the best technicalities. I know we can't expect the moon for the price, but I dunno if there's a budget earbud that scores high marks in the all the 3 Ts of timbre, tonality and technicalities? Is there such a unicorn? So we are not talking about one trick ponies that ace tonality but fail at technicalities, or vice versa?


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> I have already told everyone to get the X6 enough times lol.


No you don't  But wait, hasn't Sam_L emptied all the supplies on Ali?


----------



## jogawag (Jun 22, 2021)

uneri said:


> It's been out since the start of 2021, and this latest version should be the one that the NiceHCK store is selling at the moment.
> 
> For the 2021 version, the Ks logo (which indicates right side) is now on the silver color earbud, instead of the black on the old version.
> There's also been changes in the plug & wooden box design, and reportedly a very slightly thinner chamber, as well as improvement in the sound.
> ...


For the 2020 version, Plug type is HIFIMAN 3.5mm TRRS only. (same as Bell-Ti 120ohm/32ohm too)
For the 2021 version, Plug types are 3.5mm TRS, 2.5mm and 4.4mm.


----------



## james444

assassin10000 said:


> A couple excerpts from my post about the Earin A-3 TWS earbuds here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/post-16418594
> 
> They sound a bit better than I recall the Sabbat X12 Pro (but maybe not better than the newer X12 Ultra). Unfortunately I cannot directly compare them as I modded both pairs of those.
> 
> ...



To me, the biggest drawback with the A-3 is the lack of support from Earin.

They offer gorgious hardware, but their software is buggy and customer service is very poor.

I demonstrated to them with my ear simulator that max volume on the A-3 is too low with some rather quiet classical recordings (compared to many other TWS). They promised to discuss this with their sound engineer and get back to me, but never did.

I also reported a bug of AAC-stream switching to mono instead of stereo at times, to which they didn't even bother to reply.

As it stands, I've pretty much given up on Earin. I've been a backer for years, but they keep churning out half-baked products and fail to realize the importance of proper after sales support.


----------



## jeejack

baskingshark said:


> Yeah boss @RikudouGoku keeps recommending X6 to me every time I talk to him hahaha. I hope to get it some day.
> 
> But from what I read, I think the X6 is kinda like the BLON BL-03 of the earbud world (correct me if I'm mistaken). Ie excellent timbre and tonality, but maybe not the best technicalities. I know we can't expect the moon for the price, but I dunno if there's a budget earbud that scores high marks in the all the 3 Ts of timbre, tonality and technicalities? Is there such a unicorn? So we are not talking about one trick ponies that ace tonality but fail at technicalities, or vice versa?


I'm sure you'll love the 19-21 red dot drivers


----------



## baskingshark

jeejack said:


> I'm sure you'll love the 19-21 red dot drivers



Nice, is there a link?


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> Nice, is there a link?


i think this driver is in question
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002455023083.html


----------



## jeejack

baskingshark said:


> Nice, is there a link?


This one:
Headphone DIY 15.4mm Speaker Unit 32 Ohm Heavy Bass Headphone Loudspeakers DIY 98.5dB https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNoxJIv


furyossa said:


> i think this driver is in question
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002455023083.html


Not this


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> This one:
> Headphone DIY 15.4mm Speaker Unit 32 Ohm Heavy Bass Headphone Loudspeakers DIY 98.5dB https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNoxJIv
> 
> Not this


It's the same driver


----------



## furyossa (Jun 22, 2021)

jeejack said:


> This one:
> Headphone DIY 15.4mm Speaker Unit 32 Ohm Heavy Bass Headphone Loudspeakers DIY 98.5dB https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNoxJIv
> 
> Not this


Pink dot https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000741710087.html
Can you describe both, red and pink dot, if it's not a problem
BTW I have 64ohm Ti (full Ti not composite version) but I don't like it at all


----------



## jogawag (Jun 22, 2021)

My secondly Onmyoji 2021 arrived today and I felt that it was a bit short, so I measured the exact length of the cable and found that it was only 108cm.
Because it is 120±5cm in Spec, it is 7cm short of it. This means that when I sell it to a second-handed shop later on, it might be treated as defective.

So, I said that this Onmyoji 2021 is defective because it is outside the Spec range and I demanded a replacement to the NiceHCK.
I said that when I receive the 120cm Onmyoji from the NiceHCK, I will send this defective Onmyoji back to the NiceHCK.
And I asked the NiceHCK that I should "Open Dispute" immediately or replacement.

How does everyone feel this action and demand?


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> My Onmyoji 2021 arrived today and I felt that it was a bit short, so I measured the exact length of the cable and found that it was only 108cm.
> Because it is 120±5cm in Spec, it is 7cm short of it. This means that when I sell it to a second shop later on, it might be treated as defective.
> 
> So, I said that this Onmyoji 2021 is defective because it is outside the Spec range and I demanded a replacement to the NiceHCK.
> ...


For short people and those with big smartphones these will not be a problem.  
Joke aside, this is not too short thought, especially if you use BT dac/amp.
Also, dongle cable or DAC/amp is around 10-15cm so the missing length is compensated


----------



## RikudouGoku

jogawag said:


> My Onmyoji 2021 arrived today and I felt that it was a bit short, so I measured the exact length of the cable and found that it was only 108cm.
> Because it is 120±5cm in Spec, it is 7cm short of it. This means that when I sell it to a second shop later on, it might be treated as defective.
> 
> So, I said that this Onmyoji 2021 is defective because it is outside the Spec range and I demanded a replacement to the NiceHCK.
> ...


.....their QC seems to be really bad...


While I personally would not care for that cable lenght difference (does not affect my use case) I would be worried that it would have inadequate QC for everything else in it...as it is pretty obvious that they didnt check it when they made that simple error in cable legnth....


----------



## FranQL

It gives to think about the number of complaints / failures that we read here about ksearphone, we speak of very high amounts.


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> It gives to think about the number of complaints / failures that we read here about ksearphone, we speak of very high amounts.


Yup, first Fiio EM5 then K's. 
Moondrop goes "unpunished" for now.


----------



## uneri (Aug 11, 2021)

‎


----------



## RikudouGoku

Smabat M2S Pro review is up: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-m2s-pro.25238/reviews#review-26126

Rank: S

Priced around mid-tier, performs at high-tier level. 
Also had to demote the score of the Yincrow RW-2000 review from 5/5 to 4.5/5.


----------



## Kumonomukou (Jun 22, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Yeah boss @RikudouGoku keeps recommending X6 to me every time I talk to him hahaha. I hope to get it some day.
> 
> But from what I read, I think the X6 is kinda like the BLON BL-03 of the earbud world (correct me if I'm mistaken). Ie excellent timbre and tonality, but maybe not the best technicalities. I know we can't expect the moon for the price, but I dunno if there's a budget earbud that scores high marks in the all the 3 Ts of timbre, tonality and technicalities? Is there such a unicorn? So we are not talking about one trick ponies that ace tonality but fail at technicalities, or vice versa?



I'm actually not a big fan of Yincrow X6. They were a bit muddy to me and not technical at all. Granted I only used them on phone & laptop, and you know the power changes everything! Speaking of which, I'm now thinking of another earbuds in the same category under the same name.

MEMT X6! I got them in lucky bags back then. It was a pleasant surprise! Similar problems, NOT very technical, vocal + tremble were definitely lacking, but the bass was very extended & satisfying. They were cheap & probably discontinued by now. The built was also great with the type of metal mesh you'd get on Astrotec Lyra. I think it's a deserving rec for the type of signature, if you can find them available somewhere.


----------



## n00b

RikudouGoku said:


> Smabat M2S Pro review is up: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-m2s-pro.25238/reviews#review-26126
> 
> Rank: S
> 
> ...


i feel like canceling my fiio em5 order now


----------



## FranQL

n00b said:


> i feel like canceling my fiio em5 order now


mmmmmm unless you want to have them all


----------



## RikudouGoku

n00b said:


> i feel like canceling my fiio em5 order now


Its from amazon isnt it? Maybe buy both and then see if you want to return the EM5 or not? The M2S Pro is a damn good bud to have though and it has mmcx. I would be super careful about all other sets without mmcx at that price.


----------



## jeejack

RikudouGoku said:


> Smabat M2S Pro review is up: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-m2s-pro.25238/reviews#review-26126
> 
> Rank: S
> 
> ...


It seems that the winner is actually M2pro which is cheaper and which I have together with the two drivers 40 ohm and 150 ohm


----------



## n00b

i actually want as small a rotation as possible, i have too many collections as is.. just a result of trying to experience different things to figure out what i like. I think the M2S Pro checks a lot of boxes for me:

MMCX/replaceable cables! i already have too many cables
silver/black (not blue colorway, sorry RW2000)
sub-bass extension -- this is sorely missing from my chaconne, ebx21
price! i am very happy to pay $55 instead of $250+ for an "S" tier bud


----------



## n00b

RikudouGoku said:


> Its from amazon isnt it? Maybe buy both and then see if you want to return the EM5 or not? The M2S Pro is a damn good bud to have though and it has mmcx. I would be super careful about all other sets without mmcx at that price.


yea from amazon. I guess I can return it if I want. But if I order the M2S Pro it'll be more difficult to return, and I'd kick myself for keeping both if that's the case. This also might be a silly comparison, but IKKO OH10 IEM vs M2S Pro? I bought the IKKO for sub-bass and MMCX but i don't really love the closed feeling of IEMs and the weight

thanks again for the review!!


----------



## RikudouGoku

n00b said:


> i actually want as small a rotation as possible, i have too many collections as is.. just a result of trying to experience different things to figure out what i like. I think the M2S Pro checks a lot of boxes for me:
> 
> MMCX/replaceable cables! i already have too many cables
> silver/black (not blue colorway, sorry RW2000)
> ...


Yup, a lot of boxes got ticked there.   
I am starting to feel a bit bad about declining the EM5 review unit....




jeejack said:


> It seems that the winner is actually M2pro which is cheaper and which I have together with the two drivers 40 ohm and 150 ohm


Indeed it is. It would actually have been easier to swallow the price if they switched the pricing of the Super One and the M2S Pro lol.


----------



## RikudouGoku

n00b said:


> yea from amazon. I guess I can return it if I want. But if I order the M2S Pro it'll be more difficult to return, and I'd kick myself for keeping both if that's the case. This also might be a silly comparison, but IKKO OH10 IEM vs M2S Pro? I bought the IKKO for sub-bass and MMCX but i don't really love the closed feeling of IEMs and the weight
> 
> thanks again for the review!!


Oh no way. Comparing sub-bass in an iem vs bud isnt much of a fight already (maybe super well extended buds can beat iems with poor sub-bass extension and roll-off..) but the OH10? yeah, no way lol.


----------



## n00b

lol okay, figures. I do enjoy the OH10 but its physically fatiguing. Anyway, the fact that the M2S Pro has even replaceable DRIVERS sold it for me. You can upgrade the drivers to match their other products like the ST10s Gold for $18 or so? That's so cool! I put in an order for that + X6 with mic for $66 shipped


----------



## jeejack

jeejack said:


> It seems that the winner is actually M2pro which is cheaper and which I have together with the two drivers 40 ohm and 150 ohm


Don't confuse M2pro with M2S pro


----------



## furyossa

n00b said:


> I put in an order for that + *X6* with mic for $66 shipped


 This is very important.
I'm surprised that Yincrow is still not deciding to release the X7 after all the popularity of the X6 model.


----------



## jogawag

uneri said:


> -
> 
> Firstly, I have measured the cable on my Onmyoji 2021, and it comes in at around 110cm.
> 
> ...



Thank you for checking the notations on various sites.

I had actually sent a request to one Onmyoji2021 user asking him to measure the exact length of the cable.
A little later, the Onmyoji2021 user replied that his exact cable length is 120cm!
This led me to the conclusion that there is a problem with K's earphone's (Onmyoji2021's) QC.

Since I had a previous problem with no sound coming out of the left side of the Onmyoji2021, I really wanted to hit NiceHCK with the cable length problem this time.


----------



## uneri (Aug 11, 2021)

‎


----------



## jogawag (Jun 23, 2021)

uneri said:


> As per our earlier PM conversations and your request, I've already provided you with the measurement of the cable length of my Onmyoji for reference.
> I think it's best you ask the NiceHCK store if they know whether Ks themselves have released any official specs regarding the cable length.
> 
> I have nothing more to add on regarding this issue, so good luck resolving it.


Thank you for the measurement of the cable length of your Onmyoji for me.

And I think it's normal to think that a 12cm difference between two Onmyoji cables is a QC problem, with or without the K's earphone spec.

So I'm going to talk to NiceHCK with the main goal of having Onmyoji with the 120 - 12cm cable replace one with a 120±5cm cable, which is the spec. that actually exists and was presented on NiceHCK's page.


----------



## cappuchino

*ATTENTION TO MY SEA BROTHERS AND SISTERS:*

The *ShoonTH ESEP-01BL* is now available on Shopee for ~27 USD. Not sure if prices will still go down (or up) as it is a "recent" release on the platform.


The earbuds...






Currently resisting the urge to click "Buy Now." I only have 2 ears... 😖


----------



## furyossa

cappuchino said:


> *ATTENTION TO MY SEA BROTHERS AND SISTERS:*
> 
> The *ShoonTH ESEP-01BL* is now available on Shopee for ~27 USD. Not sure if prices will still go down (or up) as it is a "recent" release on the platform.
> 
> ...


Free shipping! Before you pull the trigger, just aim between *y* and *N* (middle of the orange button) and press LMB


----------



## assassin10000 (Jun 22, 2021)

james444 said:


> To me, the biggest drawback with the A-3 is the lack of support from Earin.
> 
> They offer gorgious hardware, but their software is buggy and customer service is very poor.
> 
> ...


I noticed the low volume as well. It was solvable on my phone. I had previously disabled absolute volume control on my Android phone for better volume control on my other TWS/Bluetooth devices that have their own volume control. This caused the A-3 to start at the default volume level, which was probably 50% and not play louder than that at 100% on my phone.

To solve it (and keep compatibility with my other devices) I had to: re-enable absolute volume control, turn volume up to 100% while playing music, turn off Bluetooth, disable absolute volume control and then turn Bluetooth back on.


----------



## gooeyrich

Are there any earbuds that give you the price to performance ratio of the KSC75?


----------



## baskingshark

gooeyrich said:


> Are there any earbuds that give you the price to performance ratio of the KSC75?



Vido.

For $1 USD (including shipping) it is very bang for buck. I wonder how do they even break even sending the earbud half the way across the globe to our mailbox.


----------



## sfrsfr (Jun 23, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Smabat M2S Pro review is up: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-m2s-pro.25238/reviews#review-26126
> 
> Rank: S
> 
> ...


Excellent review! I would be very interested in a comparison with Smabat ST10s 40Ω. The design principle and tuning of those two seems to be similar, but the shells are somewhat different... 

Specs for the drivers are:
Smabat ST10s 40Ω sensitivity:115dB/mW
Smabat M2S Pro (40Ω) sensitivity:110dB/mW
So the drivers are probably not the same.

Anyway I am more interested in higher impedance buds, so ST10s 150Ω might be my Smabat pick.
Btw. does anyone know where could I get the ST10s 150Ω drivers for a good price?


----------



## sfrsfr

povidlo said:


> YMMV......
> 
> You will not be disappointed unless you hate bass!
> 
> ...


I have got the Faaeal Iris Ancestor buds last week and I too think they are great and agree with this description. They are well tuned, with good resolution, and even some sub-bass. 
For the price it is an excellent value and I will be buying more as this is a perfect surprise gift for friends.
Even the cable is better than most cheap buds cables.

All my Faaeal buds (Rosemary, Snow-Lotus 1.0+, Iris Ancestor) are keepers and a great value. I did not pick a favorite yet.


----------



## RikudouGoku

sfrsfr said:


> Excellent review! I would be very interested in a comparison with Smabat ST10s 40Ω. The design principle and tuning of those two seems to be similar, but the shells are somewhat different...
> 
> Specs for the drivers are:
> Smabat ST10s 40Ω sensitivity:115dB/mW
> ...






Here: https://www.smabat.com/products/m-a-driver-m2-pro-module


----------



## axhng

sfrsfr said:


> I have got the Faaeal Iris Ancestor buds last week and I too think they are great and agree with this description. They are well tuned, with good resolution, and even some sub-bass.
> For the price it is an excellent value and I will be buying more as this is a perfect surprise gift for friends.
> Even the cable is better than most cheap buds cables.
> 
> All my Faaeal buds (Rosemary, Snow-Lotus 1.0+, Iris Ancestor) are keepers and a great value. I did not pick a favorite yet.





Narayan23 said:


> Not using the MX500 but will most likely buy them since you speak so highly of them, I would be interested to read your thoughts on an upgrade to them.
> 
> On another note, I just got the FAAEAL Iris Ancestor 32 ohm and I find them rather bad, bloated, boomy bass and recessed mids that make the Yincrow X6 sound like a TOTL bud, they lasted a mere 30 seconds in my ears and were relegated to "give as a gift" status and then to "I wouldn´t do this to a friend so I´ll keep the foams and thrown them away" status, I don´t have them now but I remember the RY4S sounding much better, those for me are the true cheapo champs.


I'm kinda curious about whether you guys have the black or transparent shell?


----------



## furyossa

axhng said:


> I'm kinda curious about whether you guys have the black or transparent shell?


When you already ask such a question, what is your opinion related to opaque or transparent shells in general?


----------



## sfrsfr

RikudouGoku said:


> Here: https://www.smabat.com/products/m-a-driver-m2-pro-module


So it seems Smabat M2S Pro default driver is a slightly updated Smabat ST10s 40Ω driver, both have titanium plated diaphragm.
18 USD for the 150Ω driver seems fair. Will you upgrade your modular earbud?


----------



## axhng

furyossa said:


> When you already ask such a question, what is your opinion related to opaque or transparent shells in general?


I was just curious about the differing opinions about the Ancestor.   It could be just down to personal preference of course, but I wonder if the choice of shell option could make a difference, just like how the different colour Vido might sound different like mentioned in one of the reviews here. https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/yincrow-x6.22393/reviews#item-review-24443


----------



## sfrsfr

axhng said:


> I'm kinda curious about whether you guys have the black or transparent shell?


I have the transparent shell, same as @povidlo.


----------



## RikudouGoku

sfrsfr said:


> So it seems Smabat M2S Pro default driver is a slightly updated Smabat ST10s 40Ω driver, both have titanium plated diaphragm.
> 18 USD for the 150Ω driver seems fair. Will you upgrade your modular earbud?


Probably not.... 


But I am slightly interested in the yincrow rw-100 right now....


----------



## sfrsfr

RikudouGoku said:


> Probably not....
> 
> 
> But I am slightly interested in the yincrow rw-100 right now....


Go for it! They seem to have the same cable as X6.


----------



## RikudouGoku

sfrsfr said:


> Go for it! They seem to have the same cable as X6.


The same cable I hate lol.


----------



## DivineCurrent

For a high end earbud, what would you guys take here, the Shozy BK or the FiiO EM5? I know the EM5 is twice the price, but I’m looking for a more detailed earbud than my VE Zen.


----------



## jogawag

DivineCurrent said:


> For a high end earbud, what would you guys take here, the Shozy BK or the FiiO EM5? I know the EM5 is twice the price, but I’m looking for a more detailed earbud than my VE Zen.


I vote for Shozy BK Balanced.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Probably not....
> 
> 
> But I am slightly interested in the yincrow rw-100 right now....


Are you serious?


----------



## furyossa

sfrsfr said:


> Go for it! They seem to have the same cable as X6.


Yup


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Are you serious?





....yeah....I have gotten questions for buds with earpods like shell and cant answer that so I felt a bit bad about it....

but I try to forget about it and the sale should be over and my wallet will be safe.....   

But does anyone have it? Kinda weird that no one talks about it despite being so cheap and it is from Yincrow that have great products overall.


----------



## DivineCurrent

jogawag said:


> I vote for Shozy BK Balanced.


Any idea where I can buy them? I found them on Pennon audio, it says both in stock and out of stock for some reason:
https://penonaudio.com/shozy-bk-black.html


----------



## axhng (Jun 23, 2021)

Mine is the black shell Iris Ancestor by the way, and after spending more time with them today, I'm sort of 50/50. To me, they are warm sounding with elevated bass, a bit of mid bass bleed, very tame upper mids, rolled off treble. Not my favourite tuning, but it's a non-fatiguing sound that works better at high listening volumes to me. At lower volumes, I can see why some might feel like the mids are recessed though.

that said, I feel like they're a nice step up from the vido still. Slightly more bass compared to the red vido, slightly tighter bass I think, and slightly better sub bass. I think the red vido has a tiny bit more upper mids, but that is likely due to the slightly lower bass quantity. But more importantly, I do feel like the driver on the iris ancestor sound a bit more technically capable to me. Better detail retrieval and separation, and sounds less congested. Not to mention you get a way nicer cable that is thicker, and for some reason longer at around 145cm. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's probably one of the better options in this price range to me. previously mentioned on first impression that I still like the Traceless more, but that could be because of the song I was listening to at that time, and the volume. After more comparison across more tracks and different listening volume, I think it's better than the Traceless overall. Traceless has a much leaner and brighter sound, so at lower volumes, vocals, especially female are forward sounding and has better perceived clarity (which is enjoyable in certain tracks actually). Though at higher volumes, they quickly become a bit shouty and harsh sounding. The Iris Ancestor's driver sounds more refined to me, so much like the vido, i think it has better detail retrieval, separation, and sounds less congested. Not much surprise here since from what I can see, it looks like the vido and traceless are using very similar (if not the same) drivers just with a different tuning. whereas the driver does look different on the ancestor.

Anyway, still not my favourite tuning and would gladly pay more for the K's earphone K64S and NiceHCK ME80 which is more my cup of tea. But for around 3.35 USD (on shopee.sg), it's a nice option. I don't have the KBEAR stellar or K's Nameless with me anymore (gave those away), so can't go into details in terms of sound, but IIRC they should be around the same ballpark too in terms of tuning. Just because the cable on the Iris Ancestor is nicer to me, I think it's probably a better buy over those too. 






edit: added photo of the drivers. vido red on the left, traceless on the right.


----------



## furyossa

axhng said:


> I was just curious about the differing opinions about the Ancestor.   It could be just down to personal preference of course, but I wonder if the choice of shell option could make a difference, just like how the different colour Vido might sound different like mentioned in one of the reviews here. https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/yincrow-x6.22393/reviews#item-review-24443


I doubt that FAAEAL changed the tuning depending on the type of shell. 
What my previous question was about is difference between material of the shells (opaque vs transparent). With some drivers which use stronger magnets, transparent shells because a type of plastic, can produce more resonance than opaque


----------



## axhng

furyossa said:


> I doubt that FAAEAL changed the tuning depending on the type of shell.
> What my previous question was about is difference between material of the shells (opaque vs transparent). With some drivers which use stronger magnets, transparent shells because a type of plastic, can produce more resonance than opaque


Yeah, I remember you mentioning that as well some time back, which was why I was kinda curious which version they had.   I don't have the habit of buying the same earbuds in different colour options, so I have no experience in that regard.


----------



## furyossa

axhng said:


> Yeah, I remember you mentioning that as well some time back, which was why I was kinda curious which version they had.   I don't have the habit of buying the same earbuds in different colour options, so I have no experience in that regard.


Honest answer, I appreciate that


----------



## furyossa

For those considering buying the Tingo TC200, a mmcx version has appeared, with a new GUN METAL shell, which means less visible fingerprints



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002805336074.html


----------



## jogawag

DivineCurrent said:


> Any idea where I can buy them? I found them on Pennon audio, it says both in stock and out of stock for some reason:
> https://penonaudio.com/shozy-bk-black.html


Shozy BK Balanced was sold in some AliExpress stores until a couple of months ago, but it's gone now.
So I voted for Shozy Cygnus instead, but it's also sold out.

Then I recommend Onmyoji 2021. It's the first of the color options on the following page.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983807186.html


----------



## furyossa (Jun 23, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> ....yeah....I have gotten questions for buds with earpods like shell and cant answer that so I felt a bit bad about it....
> 
> but I try to forget about it and the sale should be over and my wallet will be safe.....
> 
> But does anyone have it? Kinda weird that no one talks about it despite being so cheap and it is from Yincrow that have great products overall.


I'm personaly not a big fun of AirPod type of buds i.e. type of driver cover. 
I admit that they are comfortable and all that jazz but ...  
This MEMT T5 looks more durable https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32854217533.html.
I don't see anymore KP220

BTW...has anyone tried MEMT R7


----------



## FranQL

The3DCie said:


> Hey, look at what did arrive last Saturday!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Faaeal Iris CE transparent gray
> ...



@furyossa Here I could read some of this buds


----------



## furyossa

> Anyway, let's start with the (really) bad news, my MEMT R7 was probably borked from the beginning, or the tuner of this earbuds almost forgot there can be some sound coming out of music instruments under 200Hz, because there was NO BASS at all!!
> And I'm not a basshead by any mean but here it was so bad that it was totally un-listenable.
> Ok, the fit was bad, a bit like what I'm getting with Smabat earbuds, they don't want to stay in my ears and you lose a big part of the sound, but I never experienced something like this before, weird...


Yup I remember these post  The reason this happens (bass problem) is because they often put glue on the inside of the shell at the point where the stem begins to prevent the cable from moving, which is bent at that point and can cut because there is a sharp edge.


----------



## digititus

sfrsfr said:


> Excellent review! I would be very interested in a comparison with Smabat ST10s 40Ω. The design principle and tuning of those two seems to be similar, but the shells are somewhat different...
> 
> Specs for the drivers are:
> Smabat ST10s 40Ω sensitivity:115dB/mW
> ...


NiceHCK has them for $72


----------



## WoodyLuvr

DivineCurrent said:


> Any idea where I can buy them? I found them on Pennon audio, it says both in stock and out of stock for some reason:
> https://penonaudio.com/shozy-bk-black.html





jogawag said:


> Shozy Cygnus





jogawag said:


> Shozy BK Balanced was sold in some AliExpress stores until a couple of months ago, but it's gone now.
> So I voted for Shozy Cygnus instead, but it's also sold out.
> 
> Then I recommend Onmyoji 2021. It's the first of the color options on the following page.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983807186.html


The Cygnus has been re-issued as *2021 - Shozy Cygnus II (32Ω)*. Now with a 32Ω driver instead of 18Ω like the original.

https://penonaudio.com/shozy-cygnus.html


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> The Cygnus has been re-issued as *2021 - Shozy Cygnus II (32Ω)*. Now with a 32Ω driver instead of 18Ω like the original.
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/shozy-cygnus.html


I will love to see more color options, unfortunately only one is left and that is "out of stock"


----------



## povidlo

furyossa said:


> For those considering buying the Tingo TC200, a mmcx version has appeared, with a new GUN METAL shell, which means less visible fingerprints
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002805336074.html


Got them (shiny mmcx ones) recently and been pretty underwhelmed. Nothing really stands out about them sound wise. I get bored listening to them. Ancestor and Headroom MS16 cheapos I also got recently are much more enjoyable.



WoodyLuvr said:


> The Cygnus has been re-issued as *2021 - Shozy Cygnus II (32Ω)*. Now with a 32Ω driver instead of 18Ω like the original.
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/shozy-cygnus.html



Looks like 2021 version requires four ears as well.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 23, 2021)

povidlo said:


> Got them (shiny mmcx ones) recently and been pretty underwhelmed. Nothing really stands out about them sound wise. I get bored listening to them. Ancestor and Headroom MS16 cheapos I also got recently are much more enjoyable.


Yup that why I use it as sleeping buds  but TG-38s leaves me awake until your playlist is complete


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 23, 2021)

*@jogawag @uneri @furyossa @FranQL @RikudouGoku *
Profuse apologies gents for the delay in my updating (reporting) what the issue was with my *Bell-Ti 120Ω*. I was sincerely hoping to receive some feedback from our comrades over on erji.net regarding the other failures that were being experienced and reported. Unfortunately, I did not receive as much information as I had hoped... other than a few vague responses amounting to "driver and/or cable failure". They do tend to be very hesitant and/or even unhelpful in responding to "outsiders" which is a shame because erji.net is quite "earbud" active. To be honest it may be me though... my "Me Tarzan, You Jane" level of Chinese probably reads like that of a maniac six-year old idiot on crack! Any how, please read my updated post *here (click me)* where I go over the issue and the repair of my Bell-Ti 120Ω. Cheers!


----------



## jeejack

My opinion on *budget earbuds:*
1. RY4S mmcx plus is the only earbuds you need.
2. For DIY lovers only 19-21 red dot you need
3. If you like collecting you need Yincrow X6, Vido, TG-38s and for DIY lovers 130ohm beryllium


----------



## Narayan23

axhng said:


> I'm kinda curious about whether you guys have the black or transparent shell?


Mine was the Gray (transparent) no mic version.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 23, 2021)

jeejack said:


> My opinion on *budget earbuds:*
> 1. RY4S mmcx plus is the only earbuds you need.
> 2. For DIY lovers only 19-21 red dot you need
> 3. If you like collecting you need Yincrow X6, Vido, TG-38s and for DIY lovers 130ohm beryllium


I can say "*you need*" only if I'm thinking about *X6* 

Anyway ...  
RY Audio Store has probably most minimalistic and quite affordable offer of budget buds (with "nozzle" or "flat head")
I didn't try OG RY4S. I don't have RY4S 300ohm version but Mr. @jeejack confirmed that they use DIY 300ohm N52 driver which I own and tested too many times with
different shells. This is the tough and durable aka. "savage" driver with mid-bass centric stock tuning. This is a real challenge for DIY fans.
Again this driver alone cost around $10 and RY stose sale assembled version (with mmcx connectors) for $8  
Latest RY buds are RY4S Plus with famous Tingo silver shell. This is the fun sounding buds which overall value is hard to beat.
For $8 you get, good sound and possibility to try different cables (SE or balanced).

As for DIY lovers and people who want to try, play and listen something different from branded models, there is a really diverse offer of these low and high impedance drivers whose performance matches the much more expensive models of well-known manufacturers. More info on DIY Earbuds thread

And finally we have to mention the models that attract the most attention and represent a nice introduction to this hobby.
Out of respect for Mr.@RikudouGoku, I will state first Yincrow X6  , and RW-9. Smabat lineup with modular system (interchangeable drivers).
Vido, NiceHCK MX500, Tingo lineup (TC-200, TC-300, TC-400 and TG-38s), HE150Pro, ShoonTH ESEP-01BL etc.


----------



## Question2 (Jun 23, 2021)

OK can someone explain why my NiceHCK PK1s sound very soft compared to the Ksearphone LBBS at the same volume? I had to crank up the volume quite a bit before the PK1s started sounding decent. Is it because the PK1s are 16 ohms compared to the LBBS having 30 ohms?

Was quite surprised when I listened to the PK1s at the same volume and it felt like the clarity was much worse. I thought something was wrong with the PK1s at first.


----------



## FranQL

Question2 said:


> OK can someone explain why my NiceHCK PK1s sound very soft compared to the Ksearphone LBBS at the same volume? I had to crank up the volume quite a bit before the PK1s started sounding decent. Is it because the PK1s are 16 ohms compared to the LBBS having 30 ohms?
> 
> Was quite surprised when I listened to the PK1s at the same volume and it felt like the clarity was much worse. I thought something was wrong with the PK1s at first.


what a good question !!!!!

I am very attentive to the solution, normally when that happens I turn up the volume, but I will wait for another solution.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 23, 2021)

Question2 said:


> OK can someone explain why my NiceHCK PK1s sound very soft compared to the Ksearphone LBBS at the same volume? I had to crank up the volume quite a bit before the PK1s started sounding decent. Is it because the PK1s are 16 ohms compared to the LBBS having 30 ohms?
> 
> Was quite surprised when I listened to the PK1s at the same volume and it felt like the clarity was much worse. I thought something was wrong with the PK1s at first.


I also used to have a NiceHCK PK1.
The reason why the clarity of NiceHCK PK1 is much worse than LBBS is because the performance of NiceHCK PK1 is poor.
Did anyone recommend the NiceHCK PK1?
It simply means that you have bought a cheap, low performance NiceHCK PK1.
The fact that the PK1 is 16 ohms and the LBBS is 30 ohms has nothing to do with it.


----------



## Ronion (Jun 23, 2021)

axhng said:


> Mine is the black shell Iris Ancestor by the way, and after spending more time with them today, I'm sort of 50/50. To me, they are warm sounding with elevated bass, a bit of mid bass bleed, very tame upper mids, rolled off treble. Not my favourite tuning, but it's a non-fatiguing sound that works better at high listening volumes to me. At lower volumes, I can see why some might feel like the mids are recessed though.
> 
> that said, I feel like they're a nice step up from the vido still. Slightly more bass compared to the red vido, slightly tighter bass I think, and slightly better sub bass. I think the red vido has a tiny bit more upper mids, but that is likely due to the slightly lower bass quantity. But more importantly, I do feel like the driver on the iris ancestor sound a bit more technically capable to me. Better detail retrieval and separation, and sounds less congested. Not to mention you get a way nicer cable that is thicker, and for some reason longer at around 145cm. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> 
> ...


Your impression is essentially identical to mine On the Iris 2.0.  They may be the same thing......


----------



## Alex.Grimm

DivineCurrent said:


> For a high end earbud, what would you guys take here, the Shozy BK or the FiiO EM5? I know the EM5 is twice the price, but I’m looking for a more detailed earbud than my VE Zen.


Fiio EM5


----------



## axhng

btw, the price of the Iris Ancestor during sale is now even lower than the price on Shopee now


----------



## RikudouGoku

axhng said:


> btw, the price of the Iris Ancestor during sale is now even lower than the price on Shopee now


...thats not the price I paid. I paid 4.19 usd on the official Faaeal store.


----------



## axhng

RikudouGoku said:


> ...thats not the price I paid. I paid 4.19 usd on the official Faaeal store.


 yeah, they don't seem to be running much promotions there it seems. But other stores are selling them cheaper it seems. I got mine from shopee a while back at like 3.35USD, but JieTu seems to be selling them at 2.90USD now on Shopee. Kinda rare to see better prices on AE vs Shopee since it's usually cheaper to get stuff from Shopee for some reason.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002669708375.html


----------



## RikudouGoku

btw, just noticed that the Yincrow RW-100 and RW-777 are missing from this list: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3206#post-15645663
@WoodyLuvr You might want to add them. 
RW-777 seems to be from 2017 (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1502#post-13689816) with 32 ohms. While the RW-100 seems to be from 2019 (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2777#post-14912467) also with 32 ohms.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> btw, just noticed that the Yincrow RW-100 and RW-777 are missing from this list: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3206#post-15645663
> @WoodyLuvr You might want to add them.
> RW-777 seems to be from 2017 (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1502#post-13689816) with 32 ohms. While the RW-100 seems to be from 2019 (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2777#post-14912467) also with 32 ohms.


Thank you; added


----------



## WoodyLuvr

WoodyLuvr said:


> *@jogawag @uneri @furyossa @FranQL @RikudouGoku *
> Profuse apologies gents for the delay in my updating (reporting) what the issue was with my *Bell-Ti 120Ω*. I was sincerely hoping to receive some feedback from our comrades over on erji.net regarding the other failures that were being experienced and reported. Unfortunately, I did not receive as much information as I had hoped... other than a few vague responses amounting to "driver and/or cable failure". They do tend to be very hesitant and/or even unhelpful in responding to "outsiders" which is a shame because erji.net is quite "earbud" active. To be honest it may be me though... my "Me Tarzan, You Jane" level of Chinese probably reads like that of a maniac six-year old idiot on crack! Any how, please read my updated post *here (click me)* where I go over the issue and the repair of my Bell-Ti 120Ω. Cheers!


Just received a PM from a Chinese audiophile and audio repairman who confirmed he had the same driver voice coil failure in the driver of his Bell-Ti 120Ω number 638. He also added that he had seen quite a number of other similar driver failures with the Bell-Ti models overall. He too was able to repair his driver, as well as a few of the others that have come across his repair table but he said it is an extremely difficult repair due to the size and design.


----------



## 40760

WoodyLuvr said:


> Just received a PM from a Chinese audiophile and audio repairman who confirmed he had the same driver voice coil failure in the driver of his Bell-Ti 120Ω number 638. He also added that he had seen quite a number of other similar driver failures with the Bell-Ti models overall. He too was able to repair his driver, as well as a few of the others that have come across his repair table but he said it is an extremely difficult repair due to the size and design.


After my bad experience with the Samara K300 over the authenticity of plug and failed driver of the LBBS, I guess I will have to avoid this brand for the time being.

I actually really liked the LBBS, but both of mine failed eventually.


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Just received a PM from a Chinese audiophile and audio repairman who confirmed he had the same driver voice coil failure in the driver of his Bell-Ti 120Ω number 638. He also added that he had seen quite a number of other similar driver failures with the Bell-Ti models overall. He too was able to repair his driver, as well as a few of the others that have come across his repair table but he said it is an extremely difficult repair due to the size and design.


I may be wrong but I really don’t see the point in fixing models like this by yourself. If they are already paid at such a high price, isn't it logical that their repair service does it at their own expense. As I said earlier, if you want to compete with big brands, you can't compete only with the high price but also with the service. Users do not buy such products just to enjoy them for a short time, , and here it is obvious that they pay for frustration and disappointment.
Why do you think Swiss watches are expensive? Probably not just because they look good, but because they work flawlessly


----------



## wskl

palestofwhite said:


> After my bad experience with the Samara K300 over the authenticity of plug and failed driver of the LBBS, I guess I will have to avoid this brand for the time being.
> 
> I actually really liked the LBBS, but both of mine failed eventually.



What a shame, I hope it was just bad luck.

My white LBB is 2 years old and still working, I have been using it regularly as a sleeping earbud for the past year.  My K's Nameless is 9 months old, also no issue.


----------



## jogawag

My old Onmyoji's plug had no sound on the left side. As I mentioned before, K's earphone does not have this level of QC even with $350 earbuds.

Then there is the cable short length problem with the My new Onmyoji that was replaced. (I can't write about it yet because I'm still negotiating with NiceHCK.)

Only the sound of K's earphone is good, though.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 24, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> After my bad experience with the Samara K300 over the authenticity of plug and failed driver of the LBBS, I guess I will have to avoid this brand for the time being.
> 
> I actually really liked the LBBS, but both of mine failed eventually.





furyossa said:


> I may be wrong but I really don’t see the point in fixing models like this by yourself. If they are already paid at such a high price, isn't it logical that their repair service does it at their own expense. As I said earlier, if you want to compete with big brands, you can't compete only with the high price but also with the service. Users do not buy such products just to enjoy them for a short time, , and here it is obvious that they pay for frustration and disappointment.
> Why do you think Swiss watches are expensive? Probably not just because they look good, but because they work flawlessly





jogawag said:


> My old Onmyoji's plug had no sound on the left side. As I mentioned before, K's earphone does not have this level of QC even with $350 earbuds.
> 
> Then there is the cable short length problem with the My new Onmyoji that was replaced. (I can't write about it yet because I'm still negotiating with NiceHCK.)
> 
> Only the sound of K's earphone is good, though.


Concur. I highly doubt I will ever buy a Ks product again. The brand is now on my "no-no" list along with xDuoo, Audeze, Grado, and Jamo.


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> My old Onmyoji's plug had no sound on the left side. As I mentioned before, K's earphone does not have this level of QC even with $350 earbuds.
> 
> Then there is the cable short length problem with the My new Onmyoji that was replaced. (I can't write about it yet because I'm still negotiating with NiceHCK.)
> 
> Only the sound of K's earphone is good, though.


And why do you have to go through all this twice in a row? This is not your fault. 
I think that for each of these products, the title in front of the product name should be "FENGRU DIY"


----------



## 40760

wskl said:


> What a shame, I hope it was just bad luck.
> 
> My white LBB is 2 years old and still working, I have been using it regularly as a sleeping earbud for the past year.  My K's Nameless is 9 months old, also no issue.



It is not that they are poorly built as per se. Outwardly, the LBBS are sturdy but the drivers fail internally. Along with the random use of parts in my case of the Samsara.

I have no idea what they are up to when they obviously have the sound right.


----------



## axhng

just ordered the LBBS earlier today.  wish me luck.


----------



## Ronion

I just ordered the M2s Pro based on @RikudouGoku’s review and several other models reviewed by multiple people that are related to the SMABAT.   Funny thing is that I really want to see if the Ear Bud Anonymous Group buds are in that class for $25 And if I get a better bud out of it, then so be it ha ha.  I also love the idea of a modular system Even if it’s just for the ease of repair.  Right now the Ear Buds Anon is easily in a class by itself out of what I’ve heard: Faaeal Iris and Snow Lotus, Yincrow X6, Cat Ear Mimi(not a good bud unless comfort is all you are looking for), FENGRU DIY Tingo TC200, QianYun Qian69(my second favorite and maybe the most comfortable), and all the Apple buds.


----------



## jeejack

Ronion said:


> I just ordered the M2s Pro based on @RikudouGoku’s review and several other models reviewed by multiple people that are related to the SMABAT.   Funny thing is that I really want to see if the Ear Bud Anonymous Group buds are in that class for $25 And if I get a better bud out of it, then so be it ha ha.  I also love the idea of a modular system Even if it’s just for the ease of repair.  Right now the Ear Buds Anon is easily in a class by itself out of what I’ve heard: Faaeal Iris and Snow Lotus, Yincrow X6, Cat Ear Mimi(not a good bud unless comfort is all you are looking for), FENGRU DIY Tingo TC200, QianYun Qian69(my second favorite and maybe the most comfortable), and all the Apple buds.


Why not M2pro (not M2s pro)? Same shell, same drivers, better price!


----------



## FranQL

jeejack said:


> Why not M2pro (not M2s pro)? Same shell, same drivers, better price!


I think M2pro does not have the fast clip, and it is only a few € cheaper, since I would choose the new one only because of the new controller that comes standard.


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> Why not M2pro (not M2s pro)? Same shell, same drivers, better price!


is the driver connection the same?


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> is the driver connection the same?


No! On M2pro you must solder the wires


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> No! On M2pro you must solder the wires


I guess that's why you like it more


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> I guess that's why you like it more


You got me 😉


----------



## depsibob

Nice thread and good overview!


----------



## baskingshark

Ronion said:


> I just ordered the M2s Pro based on @RikudouGoku’s review and several other models reviewed by multiple people that are related to the SMABAT.   Funny thing is that I really want to see if the Ear Bud Anonymous Group buds are in that class for $25 And if I get a better bud out of it, then so be it ha ha.  I also love the idea of a modular system Even if it’s just for the ease of repair.  Right now the Ear Buds Anon is easily in a class by itself out of what I’ve heard: Faaeal Iris and Snow Lotus, Yincrow X6, Cat Ear Mimi(not a good bud unless comfort is all you are looking for), FENGRU DIY Tingo TC200, QianYun Qian69(my second favorite and maybe the most comfortable), and all the Apple buds.



Different strokes for different folks, I really dislike my Earbuds Anonymous earbud, it is very dark with missing treble and midbass bleed in spades, super congested, and with a fixed cable to boot (when there's cheaper $5 stuff that actually have detachable options). The Earbuds Anonymous is actually the least used earbud in my stable, and I'm looking to sell it off actually!


----------



## RikudouGoku

Praying for my LBBS then.....

Its a shame that K seems to be shooting themselves in the foot with the crap QC and non-existent customer service....


----------



## assassin10000

Well... With all this talk of broken k's earbuds if anyone has a broken lbbs/bell type, I'd take it for the shells.

I wouldn't mind trying some diy modifications on them.


----------



## waynes world

RikudouGoku said:


> Smabat M2S Pro review is up: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-m2s-pro.25238/reviews#review-26126
> 
> Rank: S
> 
> ...



Your review almost sucked me into getting them! For the sale price it is very tempting. But my recently acquired st10s black/golds asked me to please give my head a shake. Therefore it will take a little bit more than your excellent review to dupe me!


----------



## RikudouGoku

waynes world said:


> Your review almost sucked me into getting them! For the sale price it is very tempting. But my recently acquired st10s black/golds asked me to please give my head a shake. Therefore it will take a little bit more than your excellent review to dupe me!


The sale price sure is good.


----------



## mochill

n00b said:


> i feel like canceling my fiio em5 order now


Don't cancel 😅


----------



## jogawag (Jul 24, 2021)

It's not fun at all, my interaction with NiceHCK Jim about the problem the shortage of my Onmyoji cable.

HCK Jim said.
"About the length, can you give me a complete picture?
from earphone head to plug.
Then i will show to ksearphone's BOSS. "

I sent a picture and said:
"I measured the cable section again and it was 108 cm!"

Then Jim ran away like this.
"Please start with the plug, my friend
this is not a problem, please do not worry "

So I hunted down Jim.
"The plug is NOT cable. Your onmyoji page's spec below. The cable length must be 120 ± 5 cm!"
"This Onmyoji's pirce was $ 350 that is my highest price in my earbuds! It's only natural to assume that any product that's out of spec is defective!"
"Jim said that start with the plug, but it was 113cm long even including the plug, so it was out of spec and defective."

Then Jim began to stingy on my way of measuring.
"Hi, friend
Please don't forget that you manual measurement is used
It can be straightened here
Manual measurement, 100% is the existence of error
I hope you can understand this information "

So I was frustrated and said:
"You've got to be kidding!
Then send me the photo of a laser measuring device measuring the length of Onmyoji!
What you're saying is just a very poor excuse! "

Then Jim seemed to think, and Jim confessed that the length of the spec is fake as @uneri said, and Jim continued:
"I will show your information to ksearphone's boss

The length of the page is written by my colleague
Now i deleted it
The official parameters, only these (written on the packaging box)
Now,
I will show your information to ksearphone's boss

I express my opinion:
① Regarding the length, I do n’t think this is a flaw
② The length information is written by nicehck, which is a fact. For other parameters, please refer to official information (please check the picture)
③Although I do not agree with your point of view, but I will communicate with the ksearphone boss
Parametric pictures, from their official Taobao store. This is the official parameter "

Jim then called ksearphone boss to get the boss's next statement.
"Because these are all hand-made braided wires, some of which can be braided loosely, then it will be three or four centimeters long; If it is braided tighter, it will be three or four centimeters short, basically, it is about 115 to 120cm, which means adding the length of the plug together. Because our plug itself is very long, including the inner diameter of the plug has been 7cm to 8cm. "

And Jim instructed me to take more pictures.
"Can you try to straighten them completely? Then provide me with pictures. I negotiate with the ksearphone boss. Put earphone in a completely straight state, and then measurement, and then give me a picture. I negotiate with the ksearphone boss."

So I made Onmyoji and measure to be taped together. And took their pictgure and sent it to Jim.
And as another proof, I asked my head-fi friend to take a picture of the cable length of Onmyoji, which is 115cm (120cm with the plug part) and sent it to Jim.(thanks friend!)

Jim then said:
"The picture is a bit blurry, can you give me HD picture?"

I did it.

Jim then sent the picture to the ksearphone boss. He got a reply.
"the reply of ksearphone boss
What he meant: the length is about 120 ± 10%
Because this is a hand-woven cable "

So Jim said:
"According to him information, I think there is no problem with your Onmyoji."

So I used the ultimate weapon.
"Hmmm, so the only problem left is that Jim wrote a spec with false information about the cable length of 1.2m ± 5cm, OK?
If ksearphone's BOSS won't do anything about me being inconvenienced by this, then Jim will do something about it, right?
For example, Jim could send me six cable clips as an apology, OK? "

But he didn't send this six cable clips as an apology.
So I left the message bellow.
"Hey, Jim, answer me!
If you don't, I'm planning to post a detail story to head-fi (including the three times I was forced to take pictures of the cable and the problem with the false cable length specs).
And you're going to lose one or more customers."

And Jim said nothing for 3 hours, so I said last message.
"Good bye"

The old Jim was not like this. He was much more friendly to his customers... 
I won't be shopping at Jim's anymore.
I have decided never to recommend K'searphone and NiceHCK products again. 
I registered the product & shop with the lowest rating of 1 star. 

EDIT:
Jim apologised to me and the sent six cable clips as an apology.
So we made up.


----------



## aspire5550

Managed to get a used green ST-10 at a nice price, almost half of m2s pro's sale price. With my limited experience in earbuds, currently I'm exploring what mid-fi earbuds can provide.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jogawag said:


> It's not fun at all, but here's my interaction with Jim.
> 
> HCK Jim said.
> "About the length, can you give me a complete picture?
> ...


They are making themselves look really bad now. "120 +-10%"???? What kind of BS is that???? So they are saying it is ok for the cable to be within 108 < x < 132 (cm) (which is usually with a 95% statistical significance, so its a 5% chance that it isnt within that big margin either...). 

(The guys at XINHS would cry if they saw this poor excuse...)


----------



## povidlo

aspire5550 said:


> Managed to get a used green ST-10 at a nice price, almost half of m2s pro's sale price. With my limited experience in earbuds, currently I'm exploring what mid-fi earbuds can provide.


ST-10 was once smabat's flagship.

Just like you I was lucky enough to snatch one recently on the cheap, last one available from a random Amazon seller.

I like it a lot. It's easier to drive , less bassy, and less peaky in mid-high than ST-10s Gold.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 24, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> They are making themselves look really bad now. "120 +-10%"???? What kind of BS is that???? So they are saying it is ok for the cable to be within 108 < x < 132 (cm) (which is usually with a 95% statistical significance, so its a 5% chance that it isnt within that big margin either...).
> 
> (The guys at XINHS would cry if they saw this poor excuse...)


It shows how K's earphone's aware of QC.
In general, Chinese manufacturers seem to think that QC is the role of the user.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Small update and sorry again for the low effort post but it’s a duty to say the truth.
I expressed big disappointment about the Bell-ti (120ohm) but with a certain player now, I tend to love it the best. The comfort is out of this world, and the sound is now addictive to me now AND I find that the ease of drive is very useful too. 
I don’t regret buying to the point where I shot myself on the foot promising to give it as a gift to somebody (I did not specify what model of earbuds) thinking I would not like the Bell-ti, and now I’m stuck in a situation where I have to buy a high-end earbud to keep my promise. 
Bottom line, earbuds have to be judged patiently, over time, and the Bell-Ti is in fact a great earbud.
Do I find it overpriced though ? Yes.


----------



## furyossa

Serge Bernamej said:


> Small update and sorry again for the low effort post but it’s a duty to say the truth.
> I expressed big disappointment about the Bell-ti (120ohm) but with a certain player now, I tend to love it the best. The comfort is out of this world, and the sound is now addictive to me now AND I find that the ease of drive is very useful too.
> I don’t regret buying to the point where I shot myself on the foot promising to give it as a gift to somebody (I did not specify what model of earbuds) thinking I would not like the Bell-ti, and now I’m stuck in a situation where I have to buy a high-end earbud to keep my promise.
> Bottom line, earbuds have to be judged patiently, over time, and the Bell-Ti is in fact a great earbud.
> *Do I find it overpriced though ? Yes.*


Do I think you're right? Yes!


----------



## Serge Bernamej

furyossa said:


> Do I think you're right? Yes!


Hahaha, yes but do you like the Bell-Ti ?


----------



## furyossa

Serge Bernamej said:


> Hahaha, yes but do you like the Bell-Ti ?


1st, do I have it? No
2nd, do I want them? Not really, I'm not interested in fragile buds no matter how good they sound, and I often like to disassemble things, so it’s not for me


----------



## Serge Bernamej

furyossa said:


> 1st, do I have it? No
> 2nd, do I want them? Not really, I'm not interested in fragile buds no matter how good they sound, and I often like to disassemble things, so it’s not for me


Fair enough ! What is your favorite comfortable earbud ? Like your top comfort earbud witht he best sound ?


----------



## furyossa

I tried decent amount of shells, metal and plastic. I own also Bell LB but for my ear DOCOMO is most comfortable. I am currently using a 150ohm "red film" driver with them, which was originally made for the Nokia HDD-1 model that uses the same shell.  And as for the best sound, you saw the pair I put together


----------



## n00b

mochill said:


> Don't cancel 😅


lol ok fine, it comes in next Tuesday I believe. As much as I want to keep my rotation pared down, I'm really enjoying the Chaconne and EBX21 and find myself switching between them often. EBX21 with double foams and over-ear cables give them the low end I was looking for and they're still plenty clear for casual listening. I'm curious to see what experiential differences the Smabat M2S Pro I ordered and the FiiO EM5 can bring to the table.

Initially I was really intrigued by the Bell-Ti but I think I'll just skip that brand altogether at this point.


----------



## FranQL (Jun 24, 2021)

Well, I tell you my request with official faaeal:

- I buy Faaeal Rosemay and faaeal iris ancestor.
- receipt: I get a Faaeal bag and a crappy mp3 player.






As you see?


----------



## furyossa (Jun 24, 2021)

FranQL said:


> Well, I tell you my request with official faaeal:
> 
> - I buy Faaeal Rosemay and faaeal iris ancestor.
> - receipt: I get a Faaeal bag and a crappy mp3 player.
> ...


You didn't get earbuds?


----------



## Ronion

jeejack said:


> Why not M2pro (not M2s pro)? Same shell, same drivers, better price!


I can solder well, but I’m lazy as _____.  I nearly did just that though.


----------



## Ronion

baskingshark said:


> Different strokes for different folks, I really dislike my Earbuds Anonymous earbud, it is very dark with missing treble and midbass bleed in spades, super congested, and with a fixed cable to boot (when there's cheaper $5 stuff that actually have detachable options). The Earbuds Anonymous is actually the least used earbud in my stable, and I'm looking to sell it off actually!


Mine has the most treble extensions out of all the buds I listed.  I’m surprised to read that you hear otherwise.  It does have more bass that does warm up the midrange, but it’s tight, detailed, and/or fast bass and hasn’t muddied anything relative to my other buds.  In fact I’d say the opposite: it is the clearest bud I’ve got with the most detail and instrument separation.  It’s not a reference tuning for sure though!  In fact it’s tuned similar to my X6 but with deeper bass, more detail, and more extended treble.  The bass is definitely elevated for high(ish) listening volumes.  It’s my bassiest bud for lack of a better descriptor.  At low, long-term hearing safe volumes, it’s certainly pleasingly full to me And extra clear, deep bass has never really bothered me.  In any case, I can’t wait to hear it next to a bud with more reviews and has been well received but people who have heard a lot of buds.  The cable is a bummer though—not its quality, just the fact that it’s attached.


----------



## emusic13 (Jun 24, 2021)

Any suggestions for an IEM that sounds like MX500?


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> You didn't get earbuds?



No, nothing else, just what you see in the photo.

Too bad, I was curious to hear those two buds, especially Rosemary


----------



## RikudouGoku

FranQL said:


> Well, I tell you my request with official faaeal:
> 
> - I buy Faaeal Rosemay and faaeal iris ancestor.
> - receipt: I get a Faaeal bag and a crappy mp3 player.
> ...


what??? They dont even sell daps.....


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> No, nothing else, just what you see in the photo.
> 
> Too bad, I was curious to hear those two buds, especially Rosemary





RikudouGoku said:


> what??? They dont even sell daps.....


It's really weird.


----------



## FranQL

RikudouGoku said:


> what??? They dont even sell daps.....





furyossa said:


> It's really weird.



They probably have logistics warehouses shared with other stores and orders are prepared there.

I have written to the seller (FAAEAL offical store), if he answers me I will inform you of the solution.


----------



## Ronion

I bet that’s the problem.  So crazy!  Sorry about your luck bro.  I’m sure the collective ear bud family feels the same way.


----------



## RikudouGoku

QC problems at the top and wrong package at the bottom, great isnt it.


----------



## FranQL

RikudouGoku said:


> QC problems at the top and wrong package at the bottom, great isnt it.




😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

I should have bought YINCROW X6 !!!! (it's a joke).

I will not complain much, nor will I open a dispute, I will only talk to the seller, what I have received is worth nothing, and I bought two buds.

If I do not receive them, I will not buy them again and I will not place more orders in the store.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 24, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> QC problems at the top and wrong package at the bottom, great isnt it.


It’s so good it can’t get any better 


FranQL said:


> 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
> 
> I should have bought YINCROW X6 !!!! (it's a joke).
> 
> ...


You overtook me with the statement, I just wanted to say that we should all buy a pair of X6 and take a short break.


----------



## digititus

furyossa said:


> You overtook me with the statement, I just wanted to say that we should all buy a pair of X6 and take a short break.


@RikudouGoku already bought them all


----------



## RikudouGoku

digititus said:


> @RikudouGoku already bought them all


Dont worry, I have a strict rule against getting duplicates.


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> You overtook me with the statement, I just wanted to say that we should all buy a pair of X6 and take a short break.



@Ronion has made a heresy at the beginning of this page .... I comment that there is a bud that he likes more than X6. For a moment I was scared.


----------



## furyossa

digititus said:


> @RikudouGoku already bought them all


No, no, he doesn't buy spare pairs, because there is no more space in the apartment, but that's why Sam_L doesn't miss the opportunity


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Dont worry, I have a strict rule against getting duplicates.


I know it


----------



## FranQL (Jun 24, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Dont worry, I have a strict rule against getting duplicates.



My rule is very stupid (or I am it directly), since I really like a bud and I want that sound forever, I buy another one like it (and it stays in a drawer) later when I have another one that I like better .... original and duplicate are left in a drawer ...


----------



## furyossa (Jun 24, 2021)

FranQL said:


> My rule is very stupid (or I am it directly), since I like it a lot and I want that sound forever, I buy another (and it stays in a drawer) then when I have another one that I don't like more ... original and duplicate they stay in a drawer....


So you probably have those big and deep drawers  Some for duplicates and some for spare cables


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> So you probably have those big and deep drawers  Some for duplicates and some for spare cables



...and for an MP3 player of "nothing more and nothing less than 8GB" !!!!!! I don't know what to do with such a wonder!


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> ...and for an MP3 player of "nothing more and nothing less than 8GB" !!!!!! I don't know what to do with such a wonder!


U can fill it with MIDI songs and Ringtones


----------



## n00b

FranQL said:


> My rule is very stupid (or I am it directly), since I really like a bud and I want that sound forever, I buy another one like it (and it stays in a drawer) later when I have another one that I like better .... original and duplicate are left in a drawer ...


wow fellow stupid rule follower here.. I realize I do this and it's very wasteful and expensive LOL. I actually wrote down some rules to help curb my spending this month (lol) and here they are:

No more than $300 (so far, so good, since I got the chaconne and EM5 on sales)
No multiples
Not all-black
Must offer some upgrade to existing collection (which is why I went for the Yincrow X6 with a mic, since none of my other buds have mics, and otherwise should technically outrank the X6)
Must stay in without silicone (I think it's a lost cause if you need to use wings to keep your buds in place, since those ruin the comfort for me)
Must have balanced termination (wait, I just broke this rule with the X6s lol)
Have 4 earbuds max at one time (I am also breaking this rule. I blame Rikudou)


----------



## mochill

n00b said:


> wow fellow stupid rule follower here.. I realize I do this and it's very wasteful and expensive LOL. I actually wrote down some rules to help curb my spending this month (lol) and here they are:
> 
> No more than $300 (so far, so good, since I got the chaconne and EM5 on sales)
> No multiples
> ...


Must collect more then 4 earbud as so many unique ones available


----------



## waynes world

n00b said:


> Have 4 earbuds max at one time (I am also breaking this rule. I blame Rikudou)



I have SO broken that rule!!!


----------



## chinmie

FranQL said:


> My rule is very stupid (or I am it directly), since I really like a bud and I want that sound forever, I buy another one like it (and it stays in a drawer) later when I have another one that I like better .... original and duplicate are left in a drawer ...



i try not to have the same/similar sounding earphones on their specific form factor groups (earbuds, iems, headphones, openback, closedback),for instance, if i have a treble dominant earbuds and encounter another good one that's similar, i would do a shoot-out, and (hopefully) would just keep one of them.

for duplicates, i try not to have them, unless if it's rare enough or discontinued


----------



## aspire5550

povidlo said:


> ST-10 was once smabat's flagship.
> 
> Just like you I was lucky enough to snatch one recently on the cheap, last one available from a random Amazon seller.
> 
> I like it a lot. It's easier to drive , less bassy, and less peaky in mid-high than ST-10s Gold.



Yep, according to clieOS and a few others in this thread, they prefer the original to the st-10s. It was another reason that I pulled the trigger to get something that cost few times the price of my current bud.

So far, I'm liking it. soundstage and technicalities are above the budget bud.


----------



## furyossa

chinmie said:


> for duplicates, i try not to have them, unless if it's rare enough or discontinued


The problem is that good models are always discontinued, so by the time we decide we need a spare pair, the "train" is already gone 🚂


----------



## assassin10000

aspire5550 said:


> Yep, according to clieOS and a few others in this thread, they prefer the original to the st-10s. It was another reason that I pulled the trigger to get something that cost few times the price of my current bud.
> 
> So far, I'm liking it. soundstage and technicalities are above the budget bud.



Yep. And the best of that bunch was the V1 followed closely by the V3 iirc.

My v1 is FS in the classifieds now. Good sound but just not comfortable enough for me on long sessions (damn my small ears).


----------



## jogawag (Jun 25, 2021)

aspire5550 said:


> Yep, according to clieOS and a few others in this thread, they prefer the original to the st-10s. It was another reason that I pulled the trigger to get something that cost few times the price of my current bud.
> 
> So far, I'm liking it. soundstage and technicalities are above the budget bud.





assassin10000 said:


> Yep. And the best of that bunch was the V1 followed closely by the V3 iirc.
> 
> My v1 is FS in the classifieds now. Good sound but just not comfortable enough for me on long sessions (damn my small ears).


Have you tried OFC cables yet?
The sound will be thicker than with stock cables(silver plated?).


----------



## chinmie

furyossa said:


> The problem is that good models are always discontinued, so by the time we decide we need a spare pair, the "train" is already gone 🚂



that is really true, and to make things more complicated, chifis would usually do "stealth changes" to their product, so usually even if they're still being sold, there's a chance it will be different from the first batch 

the best hope is that there's a new product that would similar or better


----------



## assassin10000

jogawag said:


> Have you tried OFC cables yet?
> The sound is thicker than with stock cables.


Yes.

I ended up skipping use of the stock cables (relegated for burn in use only) as they cause spreading of the ST-10's center mmcx pin and were the cause of intermittent connection.

Once the new cable was used the MMCX connection was fixed. Since then I only used them with an upgraded style MMCX ends/cable that was OFC iirc.


----------



## povidlo

assassin10000 said:


> Yep. And the best of that bunch was the V1 followed closely by the V3 iirc.
> 
> My v1 is FS in the classifieds now. Good sound but just not comfortable enough for me on long sessions (damn my small ears).


Is there a way to tell a difference between different versions of ST-10?


----------



## assassin10000

povidlo said:


> Is there a way to tell a difference between different versions of ST-10?



Visually only between V1 & V2/V3. V1 has an exposed center MMCX pin. V2 & V3 have a newer enclosed/surrounded pin. Also by the MMCX cable ends.

V2 & V3 only by sound as far as I know.


Here's comparison pics I took a long time ago. New = V2/V3, Old = V1.


----------



## sfrsfr

Could anyone confirm that this RY4S original (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32820438211.html) with UE cable has the same driver as the RY4S plus mmcx (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html) ?
The RY audio store does not have separate specs for RY4S plus mmcx and RY4S mmcx standard.


----------



## Into The Light5

Hi everyone, between ebx21, yincrow rw2000 and pt2021 (365ohm) which one offer the biggest soundstage?


----------



## FranQL

Into The Light5 said:


> Hi everyone, between ebx21, yincrow rw2000 and pt2021 (365ohm) which one offer the biggest soundstage?


Of those you indicate, I only have PT20.21 365 Ohm, and it is a very particular presentation of the sound (which you may like or not), with the treble protagonists, but a spectacular SQ, to this day it is my favorite.


----------



## chaiyuta

Where can I read the new flagship SMABAT Super One? Does anyone own it yet?


----------



## FranQL

chaiyuta said:


> Where can I read the new flagship SMABAT Super One? Does anyone own it yet?


here


----------



## RikudouGoku

Into The Light5 said:


> Hi everyone, between ebx21, yincrow rw2000 and pt2021 (365ohm) which one offer the biggest soundstage?


Got both the RW-2000 and the EBX21 and the RW-2000 wins at soundstage.


----------



## chaiyuta

Thanks @FranQL and @RikudouGoku , It seems M2s Pro is a better buy choice.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Got both the RW-2000 and the EBX21 and the RW-2000 wins at *soundstage*.


For me, most important thing in comparison between these. I'm a little surprised that it has such a good soundstage at all because this shell has a small i.e. shallow cavity, and usually in such a case soundstage is narrow or in best case wide (lacking depth)


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> and usually in such a case soundstage is narrow or in best case wide (lacking depth)


Lol, its the opposite here. The EBX21 is the wider one, but the RW-2000 has a lot more depth and is actually holographic.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 25, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Lol, its the opposite here. The EBX21 is the wider one, but the RW-2000 has a lot more depth and is actually holographic.


I assume that these array of ports on RW-2K, helps a lot


----------



## RikudouGoku

Anyone heard any products from these guys?

















https://www.facebook.com/ThailandHeadphone/

They sure got some great looking buds (and all with MMCX!!!!).


----------



## mochill

https://www.facebook.com/groups/audiokerehore/permalink/4823493040999912/?sfnsn=mo

New giveaway from venture electronics 😀


----------



## jeejack

chaiyuta said:


> Thanks @FranQL and @RikudouGoku , It seems M2s Pro is a better buy choice.


My choice is M2 pro (not M2s pro) 😉


----------



## Abu144Hz (Jun 25, 2021)

Can anybody compare the ry4s plus mmcx to the nicehck b40s and the red vidos, maybe even the yincrow x6's, but most importantly the ry4s plus against the b40? I've been trying to find the answer everywhere on this colossal thread. 
    The b40s were my favourite pair, but sadly they broke due to an accident while soldering(didnt pay attention and burnt through the small thin wire connecting the diaphragm and the pads, and im trying to find a replacement/upgrade to them, since they're discontinued and i cant just buy another pair. I also liked the red vidos, as a close second in my rankings.
   Any recommendations?


----------



## Abu144Hz

Also, im open to the option of buying drivers from aliexpress and making diy earbuds


Abu144Hz said:


> Can anybody compare the ry4s plus mmcx to the nicehck b40s and the red vidos, maybe even the yincrow x6's, but most importantly the ry4s plus against the b40? I've been trying to find the answer everywhere on this colossal thread. I the b40s were my favourite pair, but sadly they broke due to an accident while soldering(didnt pay attention and burnt through the small thin wire connecting the diaphragm and the pads, and im trying to find a replacement/upgrade to them, since they're discontinued and i cant just buy another pair. I also liked the red vidos, as a close second in my rankings. Any recommendations?


----------



## furyossa

Abu144Hz said:


> Can anybody compare the ry4s plus mmcx to the nicehck b40s and the red vidos, maybe even the yincrow x6's, but most importantly the ry4s plus against the b40? I've been trying to find the answer everywhere on this colossal thread.
> The b40s were my favourite pair, but sadly they broke due to an accident while soldering(didnt pay attention and burnt through the small thin wire connecting the diaphragm and the pads, and im trying to find a replacement/upgrade to them, since they're discontinued and i cant just buy another pair. I also liked the red vidos, as a close second in my rankings.
> Any recommendations?


RY4S Plus cost right now $4.5, isn’t that enough reason to buy. Only the shell and mmcx connectors worth more. You will not repent for sure


----------



## Ronion

The Plus version is $7.50 in the US market.


----------



## RikudouGoku

...I lost the battle...Yincrow RW-100 ordered.   

All I am missing is the RW-777, RW-1000 and the RW-1000 bass version, then I believe I got all the yincrows out there? (definitely wont get those though...)


----------



## waynes world

RikudouGoku said:


> ...I lost the battle...Yincrow RW-100 ordered.
> 
> All I am missing is the RW-777, RW-1000 and the RW-1000 bass version, then I believe I got all the yincrows out there? (definitely wont get those though...)



Cool. I only have the X6's and RW-9's, but I'm definitely a fan of the yincrows. The RW-2000 is on my perpetual wish list.

Btw, you also almost made me get the RW-100's, but I somehow resisted lol.


----------



## RikudouGoku

waynes world said:


> Cool. I only have the X6's and RW-9's, but I'm definitely a fan of the yincrows. The RW-2000 is on my perpetual wish list.
> 
> Btw, you also almost made me get the RW-100's, but I somehow resisted lol.


I blame these posts: 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3334#post-15942911
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2822#post-14981193
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2904#post-15055510
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3335#post-15944730

My question though, is. Is that considered an earbud or an iem? Seems like a mix between them to me.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 25, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> ...I lost the battle...Yincrow RW-100 ordered.
> 
> All I am missing is the RW-777, RW-1000 and the RW-1000 bass version, then I believe I got all the yincrows out there? (definitely wont get those though...)


Why not? After you buy last one you will receive free T-Shirt as a loyal customer  




This small detail is the most important part ............. BTW this is not a size


----------



## chinmie

RikudouGoku said:


> I blame these posts:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3334#post-15942911
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2822#post-14981193
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2904#post-15055510
> ...



it's apple airpods styled form, not fully inserted, and doesn't create a full seal, so i think it's safe to consider it as an earbud


----------



## RikudouGoku

chinmie said:


> it's apple airpods styled form, not fully inserted, and doesn't create a full seal, so i think it's safe to consider it as an earbud


Yeah should be closer to buds than iems. Although I wonder if the sound is more like a bud than an iem...


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah should be closer to buds than iems. Although I wonder if the sound is more like a bud than an iem...


More like bud: single dynamic driver, driver cover don't allow  full insertion  into ear canal like IEM, no eartips. All in all, something in between but closer to the buds


----------



## Into The Light5

RikudouGoku said:


> Lol, its the opposite here. The EBX21 is the wider one, but the RW-2000 has a lot more depth and is actually holographic.


Ahh i see, i will order the ebx21 then, im looking for a wider one, owned the rw1000 normal version before but never own any nicehck bud


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> My question though, is. Is that considered an earbud or an iem? Seems like a mix between them to me.





chinmie said:


> it's apple airpods styled form, not fully inserted, and doesn't create a full seal, so i think it's safe to consider it as an earbud





RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah should be closer to buds than iems. Although I wonder if the sound is more like a bud than an iem...





furyossa said:


> More like bud: single dynamic driver, driver cover don't allow  full insertion  into ear canal like IEM, no eartips. All in all, something in between but closer to the buds


Concur, the Yincrow RW-100 is an "*earbud*" or as @ClieOS so elegantly put: "*half in-ear type of earbud*". As @furyossa was saying it is an earbud in all regards but the contoured shell face cover. So I guess we could say it is a "*modified-flathead earbud*" or "*pseudo-flathead earbud*"... or something along those lines. @RikudouGoku looking forward to hearing your impressions and to see if it is as warm and smooth as previously reported and what the bass response is like... although it has more directed sound aimed deeper into the ear canal entrance it still doesn't seal like an IEM.


----------



## 40760

Those are EarPods style...


----------



## Ronion

I was using the EarPods today just to “have a look around”. They’re not too bad really, but they block more noise than my other buds.  Putting in the X6 afterwards was exceptionally satisfying.  They are definitely well tuned, just not outstanding when it comes to resolution and I’m sure some people will say “too much bass!”.  Not me though....


----------



## 40760

Ronion said:


> I was using the EarPods today just to “have a look around”. They’re not too bad really, but they block more noise than my other buds.  Putting in the X6 afterwards was exceptionally satisfying.  They are definitely well tuned, just not outstanding when it comes to resolution and I’m sure some people will say “too much bass!”.  Not me though....



RW-100 might be the answer...


----------



## WoodyLuvr

palestofwhite said:


> RW-100 might be the answer...


A new earbud is *always the answer*.


----------



## Nativo

Are there any good in-ear around 100-200 budget options, or should I just pay up for a good pair and spend closer to 500? Looking for a 6xx/sundara cost/performance for iem


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Nativo said:


> Are there any good in-ear around 100-200 budget options, or should I just pay up for a good pair and spend closer to 500? Looking for a 6xx/sundara cost/performance for iem


Wrong thread mate. This is for flathead earbuds not IEMs.


----------



## Nativo

WoodyLuvr said:


> Wrong thread mate. This is for flathead earbuds not IEMs.


Big yikes. Thanks for the heads up


----------



## FranQL

FranQL said:


> 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
> 
> I should have bought YINCROW X6 !!!! (it's a joke).
> 
> ...



FYI

FAAEAL official Store: Sincerely sorry for this,my friend,after checking with our warhouse,it is our warehouse sent the wrong product to you,due to the price is more expensive than the product your ordered,we do not need to you return it back or pay for extral money.
Thanks for your kindly understand,to express the apologies,we are willing to provide a free gift for you in your next order,it is acceptable for you?
Sincerely hope you could kindly understand.

FranQL: Of course it is a mistake, I am not going to write you with false information. The solution is not good, because I do not have the products for which I have paid, and I have received an MP3 that is absolutely useless to me as an audiophile and that Faaeal does not sell in your store.

But if it really seems fair to you ... I am not going to do anything else on my part, it is a really negative shopping experience, I buy two headphones and do not receive them.


----------



## RikudouGoku

https://twitter.com/tttaudio/status/1408693774230851585


Looks nice Tin Hifi is going to release an earbud with mmcx connectors.

(credits to @paulwasabii for posting it in my discord server.)


----------



## fonkepala

RikudouGoku said:


> https://twitter.com/tttaudio/status/1408693774230851585
> 
> 
> Looks nice Tin Hifi is going to release an earbud with mmcx connectors.
> ...


Hmm, will it be priced in the same range as the EM5 do you think?


----------



## RikudouGoku

fonkepala said:


> Hmm, will it be priced in the same range as the EM5 do you think?


....seeing Tin Hifi´s recent track record in the iem world...it is likely. They have gotten quite greedy on the pricing with their recent products...


----------



## cappuchino

RikudouGoku said:


> https://twitter.com/tttaudio/status/1408693774230851585
> 
> 
> Looks nice Tin Hifi is going to release an earbud with mmcx connectors.
> ...


*Ehem*

Look up Xianfan T2. Looks similar?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> https://twitter.com/tttaudio/status/1408693774230851585
> 
> 
> Looks nice Tin Hifi is going to release an earbud with mmcx connectors.
> ...


Thank you for sharing. Can't wait to see some specs and hear how it sounds.


----------



## RikudouGoku

cappuchino said:


> *Ehem*
> 
> Look up Xianfan T2. Looks similar?


lol, it does....


----------



## cappuchino

RikudouGoku said:


> lol, it does....


Literally the same shell, logo and all. If this is just rebranded, then with the T5 I have here, I don't think Tinhifi is walking the right path. We need to set up an intervention.


----------



## RikudouGoku

cappuchino said:


> If this is just rebranded, then with the T5 I have here, I don't think Tinhifi is walking the right path. We need to set up an intervention.


T5, P2, P2+. All of them seem very meh...

Hopefully this one is better....


----------



## cappuchino (Jun 26, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> T5, P2, P2+. All of them seem very meh...
> 
> Hopefully this one is better....


*Off-topic*

Yeah, and I also just got informed that there has been a stealth retune of the T2 to become more V-shaped...


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> FYI
> 
> FAAEAL official Store: Sincerely sorry for this,my friend,after checking with our warhouse,it is our warehouse sent the wrong product to you,due to the price is more expensive than the product your ordered,we do not need to you return it back or pay for extral money.
> Thanks for your kindly understand,to express the apologies,we are willing to provide a free gift for you in your next order,it is acceptable for you?
> ...


You already received free gift and now you will get another one, i hope is DaturaPro😊


----------



## fonkepala

As a side note, listening to and enjoying the Iris Ancestor for the past 3 days or so. Bass is surprisingly quite present. Mids focused. Good but not great treble extension. Vocals and timbre all sounds right. Great soundstage as with almost all earbuds. Can sound congested on certain busy tracks. Cable is longer than is usual and is sturdy. For the price, pretty good overall. I've heard worse.


----------



## cappuchino

furyossa said:


> You already received free gift and now you will get another one, i hope is DaturaPro😊


Don't think they'll be sending Datura Pros with @FranQL 's case. I was informed by them that they have stopped producing the DP.


Regarding the DAP he received, they do sell that in their Shopee and Lazada stores (all Faaeal Official stores). Must have been a mix-up.


----------



## furyossa

cappuchino said:


> Literally the same shell, logo and all. If this is just rebranded, then with the T5 I have here, I don't think Tinhifi is walking the right path. *We need to set up an intervention.*


I'm in! 


RikudouGoku said:


> T5, P2, P2+. All of them seem very meh...
> 
> *Hopefully this one is better....*


Hmmmm.... 


cappuchino said:


> *Off-topic*
> 
> Yeah, and I also just got informed that there has been a stealth *retune of the T2 to become more V-shaped*...


Yeah right


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> You already received free gift and now you will get another one, i hope is DaturaPro😊


Who knows ... if they already sent me the crappy MP3, the next thing could be "the tetris machine"


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> Who knows ... if they already sent me the crappy MP3, the next thing could be "the tetris machine"


 Yup.


----------



## paulwasabii

cappuchino said:


> *Off-topic*
> 
> Yeah, and I also just got informed that there has been a stealth retune of the T2 to become more V-shaped...


Is that the T2 Evo?


----------



## Alex.Grimm

*VE Monk v2*
- Warm to neutral
- Satisfactory amount of mid/sub-bass, the bass is deep
- The treble quality is poor, but the quantity satisfies

*VE Monk Go*
- Neutral to Bright
- Much less bass, the bass is faster
- Satisfactory quality and quantity of treble


----------



## jeejack

RikudouGoku said:


> https://twitter.com/tttaudio/status/1408693774230851585
> 
> 
> Looks nice Tin Hifi is going to release an earbud with mmcx connectors.
> ...


I found this pic


----------



## furyossa (Jun 26, 2021)

jeejack said:


> I found this pic


Let me start with this. First, they look heavy (of course, all depends on the material they use).
This type of MMCX connectors with "thin walls" are the worst case scenario for buds and IEM's (We all already know how the first version of the Smabat ST-10 went)
I see only side vents (invisible cut near driver cover) who are not very trustworthy.

I would like to express my opinion and this would also be advice to small companies that are starting to make earbuds
Start simple, without any excessive shell design because even if you have a good and quality driver, the shell can ruin everything.
The good thing is that we already have MX500 shells that no matter how good or bad they look have definitely the best designed vent system that provides ideal tuning options. For smaller drivers, there is DOCOMO. These shell designs have a lot of room for improvement, so I note that this is a great starting point.

Just look at how popular the X6 model has become. I'm serious when I say this


----------



## Ronion

FranQL said:


> FYI
> 
> FAAEAL official Store: Sincerely sorry for this,my friend,after checking with our warhouse,it is our warehouse sent the wrong product to you,due to the price is more expensive than the product your ordered,we do not need to you return it back or pay for extral money.
> Thanks for your kindly understand,to express the apologies,we are willing to provide a free gift for you in your next order,it is acceptable for you?
> ...


If you were in the States, I'd just send you mine.  Shipping to Spain costs more than the buds.  Seeing their response is upsetting.  I can't buy their products anymore.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

jeejack said:


> I found this pic


Don't buy this... Bad product


----------



## cappuchino (Jun 26, 2021)

paulwasabii said:


> Is that the T2 Evo?


Nope. The T2 that was all the hype a few years back has reportedly underwent a stealth retune.

They say that the only way to make sure to get the original neutral-ish tuning was to buy secondhand.


----------



## RikudouGoku

cappuchino said:


> Nope. The T2 that was all the hype a few years back has reportedly underwent a stealth retune.


What???? Why???? 

People loved that for what it is why change it??? 

Really sounds like tin hifi is different from before.....


----------



## baskingshark (Jun 26, 2021)

Just got a SMABAT M0 review unit.



The selling point about this new SMABAT M0 (and also the higher end M2S Pro), is the interchangeable modular system for the drivers and dampers. Their predecessor, the M2 Pro (non S), was the pioneer of this cool modular design in earbuds, allowing one to flip sound signatures by changing the driver and inner tuning/damper. But changing the drivers for the old M2 Pro involved soldering, which not everyone is confident about or has the tools to do it.

So the M0 and M2S Pro has a lego like lock in design to just change the driver without needing soldering, perhaps this will be more attractive to non hands on DIY folks.

The M0 comes with a pouch, cable, 1 set of donut foams and 1 set of full foams, in addition to the earbud itself. The cable is on the thinner side, but is MMCX detachable (breathes a sigh of relief), unlike some TOTL earbuds, and it is perfectly usable sonic wise, and has minimal microphonics even when used cable down. Like other SMABAT series earbuds, this set can be worn cable down or over ears. The housing is light, comfortable and very ergonomic for me, but YMMV as we have different ear anatomies.

Unfortunately, the default packaging does not come with the other drivers/dampers, but they can be purchased separately on the SMABAT Aliexpress shop at these links:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001268432243.html - for the various drivers. Most of them are around $6 - 9, with the ST10S Black Gold 150 ohm one coming in at $18 USD.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002654579713.html - for the various dampers - $7.90 for the whole set

The good thing is these drivers and dampers can be used with both the M0 and the M2S Pro, so for owners of both sets, that can potentially mean you can reuse the stuff and not need to buy a whole set.

The various drivers and dampers are in the spoiler tab here, along with graphs on how they change the sound sig, all taken from the SMABAT Aliexpress shop photos:



Spoiler: Various graphs of dampers and where to place them



3 damper types + no damper:








Location to place the filters for M0 and M2S Pro:












Spoiler: Various driver permutations and graphs:

























So as seen, there are multiple variables at play here, different dampers and different drivers can synergize to give a myriad different frequency response. And this is not even considering that one can still modify the sound with silicone covers, full foams, double foams, donut foams or even different cables (for cable believers). So there's really mind boggling different permutations if one purchases the other drivers/dampers, and I think modders will have a field day with the various permutations, one can finetune the sound signature to your needs.

With the stock damper and stock Titanium 15.4 mm driver, the SMABAT M0 is easy to drive, and it sounds neutralish bright for me. Mid*bass* is neutralish or just slightly north of neutral and the midbass is more emphasized than the subbass, with just a small rumble of subbass when it is called for in subbass heavy tracks. The midbass is fast, of good clean quantity, minimal midbass bleed. It is not a basshead earbud by any means, but perhaps the other drivers eg SMABAT ST10S Black Gold 150 ohm one will add subbass kicks for those that want mooooooaaaaaaar bass.

*Mids *are forward here, very transparent and detailed, with the upper mids at the verge of spiciness for me. At louder volumes (Fletcher Munson curve), the upper mids can be shouty, but when used at low to moderate volumes, they are quite well behaved. The *treble *rolls off at the higher treble, but there is slight sibilance occasionally. Vocals stand out on this stock configuration, so it is quite good for vocal genres.

*Timbre* on the M0 is excellent as per most earbuds. Note weight is on the slightly thinner side, but this allows the stock M0 to have fast transients and a clean bass line.

The stock tuning for the M0 provides quite good *technicalities*, in terms of big soundstage, excellent transients, and good microdetails, clarity, imaging, instrument separation. Considering its cost of $28.50, I think the stock M0 can compete with some midfi earbuds in technicalities (will do some A/B testing later this week to confirm this).

Will report back after doing more tests, but I think those who wanna customize your sound signature without resorting to soldering will find the SMABAT M0 has a lot to offer, in addition to the good technicalities and timbre. And the icing on the cake is that the drivers and dampers can be used with the higher end brother M2S Pro, so there's quite a lot of future proofing involved too.


----------



## jogawag

baskingshark said:


> Just got a SMABAT M0 review unit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Come on, there are so many modules and dampers and graphs that it's confusing to me and I feel that SMABAT's product line is a maze and wrong.

For many of us, the dark green SMABAT ST-10 was the best sounding product when there was only one product line.

The lower priced models could be left to the sub-brand JCally.


----------



## 40760

FranQL said:


> Who knows ... if they already sent me the crappy MP3, the next thing could be "the tetris machine"



After reading all the recent issues with sellers, I'm sticking to just one brand for the time being. It is really disheartening especially when earbuds is already a niche market and these companies still cannot get things right. I guess it is profits above anything for them, even their customers.


----------



## jogawag

palestofwhite said:


> After reading all the recent issues with sellers, I'm sticking to just one brand for the time being. It is really disheartening especially when earbuds is already a niche market and these companies still cannot get things right. I guess it is profits above anything for them, even their customers.


Please tell me what's the brand?


----------



## FranQL

jogawag said:


> Please tell me what's the brand?


Venture Electronics


----------



## jogawag

FranQL said:


> Venture Electronics


What is the name of the product you are specifically targeting?


----------



## FranQL

jogawag said:


> What is the name of the product you are specifically targeting?



in the specific case of @palestofwhite I think he has tried them all


----------



## 40760

jogawag said:


> What is the name of the product you are specifically targeting?


Nothing at the moment, but I  have something really interesting coming my way. I don't think I can disclose until the brand does.



FranQL said:


> in the specific case of @palestofwhite I think he has tried them all


I surely won't put myself at the level of some of the more established members of this thread, but I have bought quite a bit myself and lost quite a lot in the process. It starts with the same cycle, but always come back to that same few.

I have learnt that it is not about how much we spend, but how wisely we choose as we experience more and to gain that ability to discern from what we need and what we want.


----------



## jogawag

If VE's metal PK-shaped earbuds are light enough, I'd like to try them...


----------



## 40760

jogawag said:


> If VE's metal PK-shaped earbuds are light enough, I'd like to try them...



That is something else I'm looking forward to see the reviews for, although I almost always prefer something in the MX500 shell.

With the exception of the SWD2+ and original Shozy BK, I sure hope this one can change my mind.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 27, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> Nothing at the moment, but I  have something really interesting coming my way. I don't think I can disclose until the brand does.


🤫😶  =  🙊🙈🙉

If not, flat head earbud🥋Lee (*@zhibli06*) will have to come and get you! 🤪


----------



## 40760

WoodyLuvr said:


> 🤫😶  =  🙊🙈🙉
> 
> If not, flat head earbud🥋Lee (*@zhibli06*) will have to come and get you! 🤪



Let's just say it's something I've been waiting for a really long time and in due time it will be revealed here...


----------



## fonkepala

Switched to the VE Monk Go from the Iris Ancestor about 10 hours ago and so far I'm really enjoying the Go, FWIW. I'm perceiving better clarity as compared to the Iris Ancestor, everything sounds more lively. Pairing it with the Qudelix 5K presently. More impressions to follow as I change dac/amps.


----------



## fonkepala

Thinking of ordering the Zen LL or the Zen Lite. May I know what are the pros/cons of choosing the 'normal' 3.5 Single Ended (SE) plug over the 3.5 TRRS? I'm going to use them mainly with dac/amps like the Mojo, Qudelix & Zen DAC. No DAPs. Thanks in advance.


----------



## 40760

fonkepala said:


> Thinking of ordering the Zen LL or the Zen Lite. May I know what are the pros/cons of choosing the 'normal' 3.5 Single Ended (SE) plug over the 3.5 TRRS? I'm going to use them mainly with dac/amps like the Mojo, Qudelix & Zen DAC. No DAPs. Thanks in advance.



I will say get the 4.4mm version if possible. Works with your ZEN DAC in balanced and with the included 3.5mm adapter your can make it work the Mojo.


----------



## fonkepala

palestofwhite said:


> I will say get the 4.4mm version if possible. Works with your ZEN DAC in balanced and with the included 3.5mm adapter your can make it work the Mojo.


Good point, I shall consider it. Only thing is that the Zen DAC jack is kinda 'choosy' when it comes to 4.4 plugs. Am more keen on 2.5 if it's available. Or just plain vanilla 3.5 SE or 3.5 TRRS if I don't want to think too much about it. It's just that I'm not sure I understand the benefits/drawbacks of choosing the TRRS plug over the others.


----------



## 40760

fonkepala said:


> Good point, I shall consider it. Only thing is that the Zen DAC jack is kinda 'choosy' when it comes to 4.4 plugs. Am more keen on 2.5 if it's available. Or just plain vanilla 3.5 SE or 3.5 TRRS if I don't want to think too much about it. It's just that I'm not sure I understand the benefits/drawbacks of choosing the TRRS plug over the others.



I have a few VE products with 4.4mm and can safely say they all work with my ZEN DAC.  Benefits that I can tell? More power which is especially useful for higher impedance loads.

But it seems you have already made up your mind.


----------



## fonkepala

palestofwhite said:


> I have a few VE products with 4.4mm and can safely say they all work with my ZEN DAC.  Benefits that I can tell? More power which is especially useful for higher impedance loads.
> 
> But it seems you have already made up your mind.


I haven't actually. Good to know that the Zen DAC works well with 4.4mm VE buds. All of the chifi 4.4mm cables that I have, from ****, NiceHCK, KBEar...I have to pull out the plug out of the jack by approx 3mm before sound comes out of both channels. All the way in and sound only comes out on one side. I've reached out to iFi and they say this is due to a 'jack tolerance issue'.


----------



## 40760

fonkepala said:


> I haven't actually. Good to know that the Zen DAC works well with 4.4mm VE buds. All of the chifi 4.4mm cables that I have, from ****, NiceHCK, KBEar...I have to pull out the plug out of the jack by approx 3mm before sound comes out of both channels. All the way in and sound only comes out on one side. I've reached out to iFi and they say this is due to a 'jack tolerance issue'.



I'm actually aware of this for the other brands I've used with the ZEN DAC. VE actually provided some o-ring styled stickers to fix this issue. But I'm not sure if they are included these days.


----------



## 40760

Even more surprises for the PK styled VE earbuds....


----------



## jeejack

Good price!


----------



## sfrsfr (Jun 29, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> Even more surprises for the PK styled VE earbuds....



20 bucks? I'm afraid they will not be able to satisfy the demand any time soon....


----------



## jogawag

sfrsfr said:


> 20 bucks? I'm afraid they will not be able to satisfy demand any time soon....


But even NiceHCK B40, which cost about $10 and sounded pretty good, wasn't so that popular...


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> But even NiceHCK B40, which cost about $10 and sounded pretty good, wasn't so that popular...


B40 shell looks as PK shell but is not because larger size


----------



## rprodrigues

Wait, wait!!!!
Is there a new bud from VE at $ 20 which uses a pk shell ? What!




sfrsfr said:


> 20 bucks? I'm afraid they will not be able to satisfy demand any time soon....



I'm afraid they won't delivery a good SQ at this price...


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Astrotec Lyra Mini!

https://aliexpress.ru/item/1005002875895444.html
https://astrotecglobal.com/products/lyra-mini


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Alex.Grimm said:


> Astrotec Lyra Mini!
> 
> https://aliexpress.ru/item/1005002875895444.html
> https://astrotecglobal.com/products/lyra-mini


Great catch! Added to the *list*


----------



## furyossa

Alex.Grimm said:


> Astrotec Lyra Mini!
> 
> https://aliexpress.ru/item/1005002875895444.html
> https://astrotecglobal.com/products/lyra-mini


I’ve always been fascinated by how much attention Astrotec pays to detail. The vent systems used on the Lyra models are really innovative and deserve every praise. And they are honest enough


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> Wait, wait!!!!
> Is there a new bud from VE at $ 20 which uses a pk shell ? What!
> *I'm afraid they won't delivery a good SQ at this price...*


This is not important right now. The last few models that came out had a pretty high price, so this is a much more affordable offer. At least if you want to upgrade, you can, as Lee said. Also, if you have better driver you can swap it


----------



## fonkepala

sfrsfr said:


> 20 bucks? I'm afraid they will not be able to satisfy demand any time soon....


20 bucks? Wow, really? Cool.


----------



## n00b

Lyra Mini is cuuuuute but I bet the tuning isn't my taste. love the transparent champagne w/ silver and gold


----------



## n00b

FiiO EM5 got here, initial impressions are. Drums sound like drums. Full, dynamic, thumpy, fast, slammin. I would say there's actual subbass extension and rumble, midbass feels clean and natural, although I do feel an overall sense of 'body' to the music. Unfortunately everything else sounds a bit distant, if not muffled. By comparison Chaconne have a bell-like clarity for female vocals and, well, bells, etc. The FiiO EM5 overall feel "thick" and "laid back", bordering on "dark" or veiled. Female vocals feel a bit hollow or thin, maaaybe even rough/sharp, and feel like they're behind me and to either side of me. The presentation isn't as intimate, emotional and forward as the other buds I have, but I guess those are more upper mid/treble-strong (EBX21, Chaconne, ME80).

I'm swapping between Chaconne and EM5 right now and the Chaconne is definitely more 'open' feeling, airy, sparkly. The EM5 by contrast feels dummy thicc, almost muffled. Like going from a concert hall (Chaconne) to a club or warehouse party (EM5). Maybe some burn in (ie: 300 hours lmao) is necessary to open these up as well. As for tips, I'm using Chaconne with a silicone ring and then a single full foam over it, with EM5 I'm just using a single full foam (same as the Chaconne one, not the provided FiiO one since I might return these.)

The fit on the EM5, by the way, is maybe the best I've tried. I have no idea how it's possible, but it's super light and just.. goes in and sits where I put it. I can wear it cables down and turn my head and all that and it's fine. I don't need to readjust it like I do with the hefty Chaconne. The cable is really good too. FRICK. The more I type the more they're growing on me.

I want to say they're a "fun," "musical," "laid back," and "non-fatiguing" (in every sense of the word) bud. I'm still experimenting but they sound pretty good with some EQ upping at around 2K, which leads me to believe my next thing to try should be donut foams to open up the higher range a bit.

FiiO EM5 in a word: *FULL*
Moondrop Chaconne in a word: 𝒸 𝓁 𝑒 𝒶 𝓇

So, those are initial impressions. I will read some actual reviews from people who know what they're talking about, and then see if my impressions are anywhere in the ballpark.


----------



## jao29

What amp/dac would you guys recommend for Ve Zen 2.0 if one is using an idevice? Currently using Fiio Q1 mkii set to high gain on my iphone and ipod touch and I find it satisfactory. Are there any other amp/dac’s that will pair well with the Zen 2.0? Preferably one with a lightning cable included. Many thanks!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 2, 2021)

jao29 said:


> What amp/dac would you guys recommend for Ve Zen 2.0 if one is using an idevice? Currently using Fiio Q1 mkii set to high gain on my iphone and ipod touch and I find it satisfactory. Are there any other amp/dac’s that will pair well with the Zen 2.0? Preferably one with a lightning cable included. Many thanks!


Interested in what people will recommend as I am too in the market.

Been relegated to using my *Meizu HiFi Pro* mobile DAC/AMP dongle now as of late since my FiiO BTR5 was stolen from me! The Meizu is great and all but I do miss precise "volume" control as the scroll volume wheel on my Corsair K70 keyboard only moves at 2dB increments which is beyond frustrating to say the very least 😡! *UPDATE: *Just successfully solved this with an Autohotkey (.ahk) script, now I got me 1dB increments !

After many months my wife finally "*discovered*" my BTR5 which she promptly took for herself (under threat of extreme harm when I initially resisted 'the taking') and is now happily driving her illegally acquisitioned Turandot earbuds! Between her and my 24yo daughter it is a wonder I have any audio related gadgets left to myself! And please don't be fooled by their cuteness. "Siamese women are quite resourceful and come well equipped with lightning quick fingers, an adept eye for quality, razor sharp teeth, and a frightening disposition to readily visit violence upon any who stand in their way" (many Bothans died to bring you this information).


----------



## sfrsfr (Jun 29, 2021)

jao29 said:


> What amp/dac would you guys recommend for Ve Zen 2.0 if one is using an idevice? Currently using Fiio Q1 mkii set to high gain on my iphone and ipod touch and I find it satisfactory. Are there any other amp/dac’s that will pair well with the Zen 2.0? Preferably one with a lightning cable included. Many thanks!


If you go with the 2.5 balanced version, the E1DA 9038SG3 have enough power to drive high impedance earbuds. It works with ios gear, though you have to get the cable separately.
For desktop use I am very happy with the E1DA PowerDAC v2, this one would need external power to function optimally with a mobile device. Though you get even more power and a parametric EQ for free.
Both sound great and are an excellent value.


----------



## nymz

Also using btr5 and loving it so far


----------



## furyossa

jao29 said:


> What amp/dac would you guys recommend for Ve Zen 2.0 if one is using an idevice? Currently using Fiio Q1 mkii set to high gain on my iphone and ipod touch and I find it satisfactory. Are there any other amp/dac’s that will pair well with the Zen 2.0? Preferably one with a lightning cable included. Many thanks!


With this you have also MQA support https://hifigo.com/products/audirect-beam3-plus


----------



## rprodrigues (Jun 29, 2021)

jao29 said:


> What amp/dac would you guys recommend for Ve Zen 2.0 if one is using an idevice? Currently using Fiio Q1 mkii set to high gain on my iphone and ipod touch and I find it satisfactory. Are there any other amp/dac’s that will pair well with the Zen 2.0? Preferably one with a lightning cable included. Many thanks!


Fiio Q3 for a direct upgrade or E1DA 9038S G3 (may have some IEM issues)


----------



## RikudouGoku (Jun 29, 2021)

jao29 said:


> What amp/dac would you guys recommend for Ve Zen 2.0 if one is using an idevice? Currently using Fiio Q1 mkii set to high gain on my iphone and ipod touch and I find it satisfactory. Are there any other amp/dac’s that will pair well with the Zen 2.0? Preferably one with a lightning cable included. Many thanks!


Check these posts for info:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/40-usb-dongles-dac-amp-tested-and-ranked-subjective-impressions.958216/
https://web.archive.org/web/2021061...ted-and-ranked-subjective-impressions.958216/
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...-8-jul-20-qudelix-5k-impression-added.906655/


----------



## chaiyuta

@RikudouGoku : Among SMABAT earbuds, which one you like most?


----------



## RikudouGoku

chaiyuta said:


> @RikudouGoku : Among SMABAT earbuds, which one you like most?


Only got 2 (Super One and the M2S Pro). Which one do you think?


----------



## Сomrade

RikudouGoku said:


> Only got 2 (Super One and the M2S Pro). Which one do you think?


Yincrow RW-2000 )))


----------



## RikudouGoku

Сomrade said:


> Yincrow RW-2000 )))


Lol, if we add that one. I still take the M2S Pro over it. Although very slightly.


----------



## 40760

RikudouGoku said:


> Lol, if we add that one. I still take the M2S Pro over it. Although very slightly.



Care to elaborate?


----------



## RikudouGoku

palestofwhite said:


> Care to elaborate?


https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-m2s-pro.25238/reviews#review-26126


----------



## baskingshark

chaiyuta said:


> @RikudouGoku : Among SMABAT earbuds, which one you like most?



You have asked the wrong question to master @RikudouGoku . The question should be: "Which Yincrow X6 does Boss Rikudou like the most?"



RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-m2s-pro.25238/reviews#review-26126



Bro have u tried the SMABAT M0? It seems the dampers and drivers are interchangeable between the 2, so it is just a different housing and shell.


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> You have asked the wrong question to master @RikudouGoku . The question should be: "Which Yincrow X6 does Boss Rikudou like the most?"
> 
> 
> 
> Bro have u tried the SMABAT M0? It seems the dampers and drivers are interchangeable between the 2, so it is just a different housing and shell.


Nope, only got the M2S Pro and the Super bad one.


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> Bro have u tried the SMABAT M0? It seems the dampers and drivers are interchangeable between the 2, *so it is just a different housing and shell*.


And because of that they will sound different (better or worse)


----------



## baskingshark

furyossa said:


> And because of that they will sound different (better or worse)



Definitely agree boss.

The SMABAT M2S Pro and the M0 are a really innovative idea for earbud junkies like us. I know you and some other esteemed folks here are really adept at soldering and doing DIY stuff. But for most of the rest of us and for newcomers who don't have soldering or DIY knowledge, the modular design is really helpful, since it is just a click-like design to combine the different dampers and drivers in various permutations to get the desired sound signature. 

I think if SMABAT releases various shell housing designs of different price ranges, but still utilize this modular damper/driver design, and maybe they can add exotic stuff like beryllium drivers or wood shells, they can really dominate the earbud market.


----------



## FranQL

WoodyLuvr said:


> Interested in what people will recommend as I am too in the market. Been relegated to using my *Meizu HiFi Pro* mobile DAC/AMP dongle as of late since my FiiO BTR5 was stolen from me. The Meizu dongle is great and all but I am missing precise "volume" control as the scroll volume wheel on my Corsair K70 keyboard only moves at 2dB increments which is beyond frustrating for me to say the least 😡!
> 
> After many, many months my wife finally "*discovered*" my BTR5 which she promptly took for herself (under threat of extreme harm when I initially resisted) and is now happily driving her illegally acquisitioned Turandot earbuds! Between her and my 24yo daughter it is a wonder I have any audio related gadgets left to myself! And please don't be fooled by their cuteness. "Siamese women are quite resourceful and come well equipped with quick fingers, very sharp teeth, and a disposition to readily visit violence upon any who get in their way" (many Bothans died to bring you this information).
> 
> ​


I generally use E1DA9038SG3 that has a very precise and simple volume control, tempotec sonata hd pro works great for me (which is the same as the meizu), with fiio BTR3K I'm also happy, but I think the battery performance could be better.

In the future it is very likely that I will try the tempotec BHD.

I fully understand their situation, with thefts and misappropriations by wife, daughters / sons, generally subtracting the best values from their collection. We are really victims, first they blame us for what we spend and then ... they appropriate it.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 29, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Definitely agree boss.
> 
> The SMABAT M2S Pro and the M0 are a really innovative idea for earbud junkies like us. I know you and some other esteemed folks here are really adept at soldering and doing DIY stuff. But for most of the rest of us and for newcomers who don't have soldering or DIY knowledge, the modular design is really helpful, since it is just a click-like design to combine the different dampers and drivers in various permutations to get the desired sound signature.
> 
> I think if SMABAT releases various shell housing designs of different price ranges, but still utilize this modular damper/driver design, and maybe they can add exotic stuff like beryllium drivers or wood shells, they can really dominate the earbud market.


I have nothing against modular design, even more I think it is a great solution for anyone.
I really support the effort they put in here.

The only problem may be the inner space (size and form) of the shell, which largely "shapes" the sound of the driver.
@RikudouGoku mentioned earlier 3K peak on SuperOne.  
I encountered a similar problem with the HiFi Boy Dream buds and this post justify my previous statement 
about different shell


----------



## FranQL (Jun 29, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Definitely agree boss.
> 
> The SMABAT M2S Pro and the M0 are a really innovative idea for earbud junkies like us. I know you and some other esteemed folks here are really adept at soldering and doing DIY stuff. But for most of the rest of us and for newcomers who don't have soldering or DIY knowledge, the modular design is really helpful, since it is just a click-like design to combine the different dampers and drivers in various permutations to get the desired sound signature.
> 
> I think if SMABAT releases various shell housing designs of different price ranges, but still utilize this modular damper/driver design, and maybe they can add exotic stuff like beryllium drivers or wood shells, they can really dominate the earbud market.


I admire the results they achieve so much that I am going to try to do some DIY, it will be so disaster that I will deny having tried it afterwards ...


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> I generally use E1DA9038SG3 that has a very precise and simple volume control, tempotec sonata hd pro works great for me (which is the same as the meizu), with fiio BTR3K I'm also happy, but I think the battery performance could be better.
> 
> In the future it is very likely that I will try the tempotec BHD.
> 
> *I fully understand their situation, with thefts and misappropriations by wife, daughters / sons, generally subtracting the best values from their collection. We are really victims, first they blame us for what we spend and then ... they appropriate it.*


Well said hermano.

Mr @WoodyLuvr I commented on this in PM a while ago  
The major problem


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> I admire the results they achieve so much that I am going to try to do some DIY, *it will be so disaster that I will deny having tried it afterwards ...*


Believe me, you'll not feel that way.   You will experience great revelation ... probably


----------



## digititus

FranQL said:


> I generally use E1DA9038SG3 that has a very precise and simple volume control, tempotec sonata hd pro works great for me (which is the same as the meizu), with fiio BTR3K I'm also happy, but I think the battery performance could be better.
> 
> In the future it is very likely that I will try the tempotec BHD.
> 
> I fully understand their situation, with thefts and misappropriations by wife, daughters / sons, generally subtracting the best values from their collection. We are really victims, first they blame us for what we spend and then ... they appropriate it.


I have the E1DA9038D, Tempotec Sonata HD Pro and BHD. Unless you need the 2.5 balanced connection (you have the E1DA, so I doubt it) then I would say the BHD isn't worth it in your situation. I only use it for the balanced connection and can not discern any noticeable sound difference from the unbalanced Tempotec. You should buy more buds instead


----------



## furyossa (Jun 29, 2021)

digititus said:


> I have the E1DA9038D, Tempotec Sonata HD Pro and BHD. Unless you need the 2.5 balanced connection (you have the E1DA, so I doubt it) then I would say the BHD isn't worth it in your situation. I only use it for the balanced connection and can not discern any noticeable sound difference from the unbalanced Tempotec. You should buy more buds instead


Yup, yup. Put the blame on DACs/AMPs and buy many more earbuds. That's a really smart move  
BTW... don't forget to include X6. Just imagine a combo X6 and iFi Diablo   (the match from hell)


----------



## HombreCangrejo

FranQL said:


> I fully understand their situation, with thefts and misappropriations by wife, daughters / sons, generally subtracting the best values from their collection. We are really victims, first they blame us for what we spend and then ... they appropriate it.



Well, my wife only wants the Monk Plus. Up to now, she has broken 4-5 units (the last one lasted 3,5 years, so durability is great). This time, I have tried an X6, but it will probably finish in my drawer. In fact, I think that the key is that the Monk has the only cable (in general, you can include any cable type you could imagine) she has not been able to tangle.


----------



## FranQL

digititus said:


> I have the E1DA9038D, Tempotec Sonata HD Pro and BHD. Unless you need the 2.5 balanced connection (you have the E1DA, so I doubt it) then I would say the BHD isn't worth it in your situation. I only use it for the balanced connection and can not discern any noticeable sound difference from the unbalanced Tempotec. You should buy more buds instead


Thanks, well I'll save that dac if it doesn't really add anything to HD pro.


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> Yup, yup. Put the blame on DACs/AMPs and buy many more earbuds. That's a really smart move
> BTW... don't forget to include X6. Just imagine a combo X6 and iFi Diablo   (the match from hell)



😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## baskingshark

FranQL said:


> In the future it is very likely that I will try the tempotec BHD.



Have u tried flashing the Tempotec Sonata HD Pro with the BHD firmware (do at own risk, it may be irreversible!). I did that for mine, and it is approximately doubly as loud after flashing the BHD firmware, and it does seem to have added dynamics and improved soundstage, not sure if this is due to the louder volume playing tricks?

But I can't go back to the original non BHD firmware Sonata HD Pro after this haha.




FranQL said:


> I fully understand their situation, with thefts and misappropriations by wife, daughters / sons, generally subtracting the best values from their collection. We are really victims, first they blame us for what we spend and then ... they appropriate it.




You are very lucky if your family can appreciate your audio gear. My wife damaged my BLON BL-03 that I lent her, after she dumped it at the bottom of her handbag without any case, and there were heavier stuff on top of it. I've also seen her leaving my IEMs and earbuds dangling by their cable from the laptop onto the floor zzzzz. My KZ ZS10 Pro that I lent her for just 24 hours came back scratched to hell on the shell.

Best part was I had a loaner unit of the TOTL DUNU LUNA. I let her listen to it with a desktop amp with FLAC files, in a quiet room. She says the LUNA doesn't sound any different from a pasar malam (night bazaar) pirated Beats earphone that was obtained for $3 USD. 

So, in view of her destructive tendencies, and since she can't appreciate higher end gear, she is now only allowed to use a $1 Vido earbud. At the last sale, I have bought a few Vidos to let her use, it is a case of when (not if) that she will damage the audio gear, and Vidos are at least cheap and good, won't be so heartaching if she damages them.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 29, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Best part was I had a loaner unit of the TOTL DUNU LUNA. I let her listen to it with a desktop amp with FLAC files, in a quiet room. She says the LUNA doesn't sound any different from a pasar malam (night bazaar) pirated Beats earphone that was obtained for $3 USD.
> 
> So, in view of her destructive tendencies, and since she can't appreciate higher end gear, she is now only allowed to use a $1 Vido earbud. At the last sale, I have bought a few Vidos to let her use, it is a case of when (not if) that she will damage the audio gear, and Vidos are at least cheap and good, won't be so heartaching if she damages them.


       
I wouldn’t blame her for using earphones/IEMs that way. CHiFi QC is the only thing to blame.
This is an perfect example that they should consider when it comes to average users


----------



## jogawag (Jun 29, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> You are very lucky if your family can appreciate your audio gear. My wife damaged my BLON BL-03 that I lent her, after she dumped it at the bottom of her handbag without any case, and there were heavier stuff on top of it. I've also seen her leaving my IEMs and earbuds dangling by their cable from the laptop onto the floor zzzzz. My KZ ZS10 Pro that I lent her for just 24 hours came back scratched to hell on the shell.
> 
> Best part was I had a loaner unit of the TOTL DUNU LUNA. I let her listen to it with a desktop amp with FLAC files, in a quiet room. She says the LUNA doesn't sound any different from a pasar malam (night bazaar) pirated Beats earphone that was obtained for $3 USD.
> 
> So, in view of her destructive tendencies, and since she can't appreciate higher end gear, she is now only allowed to use a $1 Vido earbud. At the last sale, I have bought a few Vidos to let her use, it is a case of when (not if) that she will damage the audio gear, and Vidos are at least cheap and good, won't be so heartaching if she damages them.


Wonderful...
She must have contributed greatly to the development of your patient, thoughtful, and calm personality.


----------



## jeejack

RikudouGoku said:


> Lol, if we add that one. I still take the M2S Pro over it. Although very slight


Try them without any filter and tell me if you like it. That's how I use M2pro


----------



## fonkepala

baskingshark said:


> Best part was I had a loaner unit of the TOTL DUNU LUNA. I let her listen to it with a desktop amp with FLAC files, in a quiet room. She says the LUNA doesn't sound any different from a pasar malam (night bazaar) pirated Beats earphone that was obtained for $3 USD.


Pasar malam Beats cans > Dunu Luna, lol. Love it.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jeejack said:


> Try them without any filter and tell me if you like it. That's how I use M2pro


That would probably give it more treble, which does not sound good to me.


----------



## jeejack

RikudouGoku said:


> That would probably give it more treble, which does not sound good to me.


Just try it and you will see 😉. I use the 150 ohm driver


----------



## RikudouGoku

jeejack said:


> Just try it and you will see 😉. I use the 150 ohm driver


I only have the stock driver, that might be different.


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> Try them without any filter and tell me if you like it. That's how I use M2pro


You have Y3 or Y4 tuning paper only on the driver?


RikudouGoku said:


> That would probably give it more treble, which does not sound good to me.


Always have these in the pocket, just in case
Y2-Y5 (white cotton) tuning paper: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002454970487.html
Horseshoe black foam (low, medium and high density) : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002301165327.html


----------



## furyossa (Jun 29, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> I only have the stock driver, that might be different.


It depends a lot on the driver. Some "stubborn" driver will not be affected by any filter


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> You have Y3 or Y4 tuning paper only on the driver?
> 
> Always have these in the pocket, just in case
> Y2-Y5 (white cotton) tuning paper: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002454970487.html
> Horseshoe black foam (low, medium and high density) : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002301165327.html


Yes bro! Only tuning paper.


----------



## chinmie

baskingshark said:


> You are very lucky if your family can appreciate your audio gear. My wife damaged my BLON BL-03 that I lent her, after she dumped it at the bottom of her handbag without any case, and there were heavier stuff on top of it. I've also seen her leaving my IEMs and earbuds dangling by their cable from the laptop onto the floor zzzzz. My KZ ZS10 Pro that I lent her for just 24 hours came back scratched to hell on the shell.
> 
> Best part was I had a loaner unit of the TOTL DUNU LUNA. I let her listen to it with a desktop amp with FLAC files, in a quiet room. She says the LUNA doesn't sound any different from a pasar malam (night bazaar) pirated Beats earphone that was obtained for $3 USD.
> 
> So, in view of her destructive tendencies, and since she can't appreciate higher end gear, she is now only allowed to use a $1 Vido earbud. At the last sale, I have bought a few Vidos to let her use, it is a case of when (not if) that she will damage the audio gear, and Vidos are at least cheap and good, won't be so heartaching if she damages them.



this is so relatable to me down to the microscopic level  

for years my wife was using her stock samsung IEM, only upgrading to the usb-c version of that same IEM when she bought newer Note that don't have audio jack anymore.

now she's using an Airpod Pro after switching to the whole Apple ecosystem.. which is still not utilized often enough as she prefer to watch movies just with the onboard speakers.



all while i seems to rotate earphones and try to use different one each day 
on the positive side, at least she's supportive of my hobby and doesn't bother my earphones


----------



## jeejack

chinmie said:


> this is so relatable to me down to the microscopic level
> 
> for years my wife was using her stock samsung IEM, only upgrading to the usb-c version of that same IEM when she bought newer Note that don't have audio jack anymore.
> 
> ...


My wife "stole" my TRN BT3s + Kbear KB 04 for the morning run and they stayed with her. Good thing I don't listen to IEMs at all


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 29, 2021)

sfrsfr said:


> If you go with the 2.5 balanced version, the E1DA 9038SG3 have enough power to drive high impedance earbuds. It works with ios gear, though you have to get the cable separately.
> For desktop use I am very happy with the *E1DA PowerDAC v2*, this one would need external power to function optimally with a mobile device. Though you get even more power and a parametric EQ for free.
> Both sound great and are an excellent value.


No issue regarding noise with lower impedance high sensitivity earbuds on the *PowerDac*?


----------



## FranQL (Jun 29, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> No issue regarding noise with lower impedance high sensitivity earbuds?



I do not have any with those characteristics, but there is a configuration adapted for 32 ohm, but they always advise against low impedance high sensitivity.

Edit: I'm sorry, I didn't know what was referring to Powerdac


----------



## rprodrigues (Jun 29, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> No issue regarding noise with lower impedance high sensitivity earbuds on the *PowerDac*?


I get a lot of hiss with my BA iems. I haven't tried it with earbuds yet...


----------



## Ronion

baskingshark said:


> You have asked the wrong question to master @RikudouGoku . The question should be: "Which Yincrow X6 does Boss Rikudou like the most?"
> 
> 
> 
> Bro have u tried the SMABAT M0? It seems the dampers and drivers are interchangeable between the 2, so it is just a different housing and shell.


This is the comparison we all want to see


----------



## siderak

n00b said:


> FiiO EM5 got here, initial impressions are. Drums sound like drums. Full, dynamic, thumpy, fast, slammin. I would say there's actual subbass extension and rumble, midbass feels clean and natural, although I do feel an overall sense of 'body' to the music. Unfortunately everything else sounds a bit distant, if not muffled. By comparison Chaconne have a bell-like clarity for female vocals and, well, bells, etc. The FiiO EM5 overall feel "thick" and "laid back", bordering on "dark" or veiled. Female vocals feel a bit hollow or thin, maaaybe even rough/sharp, and feel like they're behind me and to either side of me. The presentation isn't as intimate, emotional and forward as the other buds I have, but I guess those are more upper mid/treble-strong (EBX21, Chaconne, ME80).
> 
> I'm swapping between Chaconne and EM5 right now and the Chaconne is definitely more 'open' feeling, airy, sparkly. The EM5 by contrast feels dummy thicc, almost muffled. Like going from a concert hall (Chaconne) to a club or warehouse party (EM5). Maybe some burn in (ie: 300 hours lmao) is necessary to open these up as well. As for tips, I'm using Chaconne with a silicone ring and then a single full foam over it, with EM5 I'm just using a single full foam (same as the Chaconne one, not the provided FiiO one since I might return these.)
> 
> ...


Thank you! Very useful to hear your impressions. Wondering if using without foams brings back some of those distant highs...


----------



## Ronion (Jun 29, 2021)

Reading this thread, sometimes Ifeel like we’ve all somehow married the same woman… Thereis a chance: it’s been said that great minds think alike.


----------



## furyossa

siderak said:


> Thank you! Very useful to hear your impressions. Wondering if using without foams brings back some of those distant highs...


Forget about using TOTL buds without foam. They are not sport buds moisture resistant


----------



## n00b

siderak said:


> Thank you! Very useful to hear your impressions. Wondering if using without foams brings back some of those distant highs...


i can't get them to sit in my ears that way. i was messing around with the thicker/bigger silicone rings.. but then it loses its characteristic bass presentation. at that point, i might as well listen to any other 'earbud'-tuned bud. at this point I use the 'bassy' full foams and just accept the darker sound signature, but mainly because im spoiled in that i have upper mid/treble champions in the chaconne and nicehcks.

it also might entirely depend on your library. guitars, bass, and drums sound real nice on the EM5s. male vocals too. but all my shameful girl group kpop and ballads seem better on the chaconne


----------



## siderak

furyossa said:


> Forget about using TOTL buds without foam. They are not sport buds moisture resistant


I’ve been wondering about that. I recently started using my SWD2+ without foams and they sound really fantastic that way. I guess I shouldn’t take that chance. Appreciate the advice.


----------



## siderak

n00b said:


> i can't get them to sit in my ears that way. i was messing around with the thicker/bigger silicone rings.. but then it loses its characteristic bass presentation. at that point, i might as well listen to any other 'earbud'-tuned bud. at this point I use the 'bassy' full foams and just accept the darker sound signature, but mainly because im spoiled in that i have upper mid/treble champions in the chaconne and nicehcks.
> 
> it also might entirely depend on your library. guitars, bass, and drums sound real nice on the EM5s. male vocals too. but all my shameful girl group kpop and ballads seem better on the chaconne


Thx! Thats really good insight. I might have to check out the chaconne. I like an airy sparkly top end.


----------



## jao29

Do you guys have any info on the Ve Asura 2.0? I’ve heard that it’s bass light compared to the Zen 2.0. If I put foams on them would it be comparable to the Zen 2.0? I’m planning to buy a Zen 2.0 again but Im having a hard time getting one here in the Philippines, while some sellers have the Asura 2.0. If not, are there any earbuds currently that have the same sound sig as the Zen 2.0? Thanks!


----------



## furyossa (Jun 29, 2021)

siderak said:


> I’ve been wondering about that. I recently started using my SWD2+ without foams and they sound really fantastic that way. I guess I shouldn’t take that chance. Appreciate the advice.


At least you can use donuts, which has no direct effect on the sound. Foam will catch and hold moisture that occurs where the driver cover touches the skin.
If moisture enter trough cover, inner surface and also diaphragm will become sticky and that can slow down diaphragm movement.
Over time, the glue that connects the driver to the cover will break down, and the driver will fall out, which can lead to damage to the voice coil wire.
On the back, moisture is less dangerous because there is more ventilation. MX500 shells, for example, has side vents which are cowered with thick black foam,
so that air circulates through the stem.

Anyway ... if you don't care about all of these and care only about how good they sound, you will not be able to enjoy for a long time, believe me


----------



## furyossa

jao29 said:


> Do you guys have any info on the Ve Asura 2.0? I’ve heard that it’s bass light compared to the Zen 2.0.* If I put foams on them would it be comparable to the Zen 2.0*? I’m planning to buy a Zen 2.0 again but Im having a hard time getting one here in the Philippines, while some sellers have the Asura 2.0. If not, are there any earbuds currently that have the same sound sig as the Zen 2.0? Thanks!


It's not that simple. With foam, you can improve fit, i.e. you will get better seal (or not because of slightly increased diameter).
As you already know, with better seal you will get more bass, but foam by yourself don't help with low end.


----------



## jao29

furyossa said:


> It's not that simple. With foam, you can improve fit, i.e. you will get better seal (or not because of slightly increased diameter).
> As you already know, with better seal you will get more bass, but foam by yourself don't help with low end.


I want to use the foams to make the Asura 2.0 a tad warmer. Haha. Not just because of the bass. 😀


----------



## emusic13

siderak said:


> I’ve been wondering about that. I recently started using my SWD2+ without foams and they sound really fantastic that way. I guess I shouldn’t take that chance. Appreciate the advice.


I think moisture depends mainly where you live and how you store it. I've been using a zen 2.0 foamless for almost 6 years and it still sounds good with no problems. I do keep it in its hard case with a silica packet though


----------



## furyossa

jao29 said:


> I want to use the foams to make the Asura 2.0 a tad warmer. Haha. Not just because of the bass. 😀


Then you need to try "cold weather" mode by Mr @jogawag. Also read this amazing post by Mr @WoodyLuvr


----------



## furyossa

emusic13 said:


> *I think moisture depends mainly where you live and how you store it*. I've been using a zen 2.0 foamless for almost 6 years and it still sounds good with no problems. I do keep it in its hard case with a silica packet though


And how you use it. As sleeping buds, buds for some sport activity ... for sauna    etc.


----------



## chinmie

siderak said:


> I’ve been wondering about that. I recently started using my SWD2+ without foams and they sound really fantastic that way. I guess I shouldn’t take that chance. Appreciate the advice.





emusic13 said:


> I think moisture depends mainly where you live and how you store it. I've been using a zen 2.0 foamless for almost 6 years and it still sounds good with no problems. I do keep it in its hard case with a silica packet though



also might help: i always try to wipe and dry the ears first before using earphones, and intermittently do it again if using it on a long session. 
As i live in a humid tropical country, storing my gears with silica packs are a necessary precaution. 
Also i don't use my regular earbuds/iems for exercises or any other sweaty activities, and only use TWS because those usually have better IPX protection


----------



## jao29

furyossa said:


> Then you need to try "cold weather" mode by Mr @jogawag. Also read this amazing post by Mr @WoodyLuvr


Nice! Will try this mod out if I ever do get the Asura 2.0. Do you guys think that this mod will make the Asura more like the Zen 2.0? Or are there any other earbuds that have the same sound sig of the Zen 2.0?


----------



## 40760

jao29 said:


> Nice! Will try this mod out if I ever do get the Asura 2.0. Do you guys think that this mod will make the Asura more like the Zen 2.0? Or are there any other earbuds that have the same sound sig of the Zen 2.0?



Asura is very different animal from Zen. The Zen makes the Asura feel bass anemic and I don't think foams are going to help with this one.

The Asura does everything else great though. Just don't expect bass like you do with most earbuds.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

palestofwhite said:


> Asura is very different animal from Zen. The Zen makes the Asura feel bass anemic and I don't think foams are going to help with this one.
> 
> The Asura does everything else great though. Just don't expect bass like you do with most earbuds.


Completely concur, not even in the same ballpark. Asura are very detailed with excellent timbre. Definitely, would say that the Asura leans toward the bright side with the lower/middle midrange starting at neutral and slowly turning bright as you approach the lower treble region which I think is safe to say probably the most emphasized area on this earbud.


----------



## 40760

WoodyLuvr said:


> Completely concur, not even in the same ballpark. Asura are very detailed with excellent timbre. Definitely, would say that the Asura leans toward the bright side with the lower/middle midrange starting at neutral and slowly turning bright as you approach the lower treble region which I think is safe to say probably the most emphasized area on this earbud.


That's right! You described it much better than I ever can. Back then I likened it as the Etymotics of earbuds. A pity they were discontinued due to poorer reception.


----------



## jao29

WoodyLuvr said:


> Completely concur, not even in the same ballpark. Asura are very detailed with excellent timbre. Definitely, would say that the Asura leans toward the bright side with the lower/middle midrange starting at neutral and slowly turning bright as you approach the lower treble region which I think is safe to say probably the most emphasized area on this earbud.


Do you have any suggestions of an earbud that has the same sound sig as the zen 2.0? I’m having a hard time finding one here in the Philippines. 🙁


----------



## sfrsfr (Jun 30, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Completely concur, not even in the same ballpark. Asura are very detailed with excellent timbre. Definitely, would say that the Asura leans toward the bright side with the lower/middle midrange starting at neutral and slowly turning bright as you approach the lower treble region which I think is safe to say probably the most emphasized area on this earbud.


Btw. is the Asura Omega Edition same as Asura, just with mmcx interface? Should I consider buying them if I find them on second-hand market?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

sfrsfr said:


> Btw. is the Asura Omega Edition same as Asura, just with mmcx interface?


To my poor ears, yes! One-in-the-same sound wise but I am a silly cable skeptic so please take my opinion with a pinch of salt.


----------



## siderak

furyossa said:


> At least you can use donuts, which has no direct effect on the sound. Foam will catch and hold moisture that occurs where the driver cover touches the skin.
> If moisture enter trough cover, inner surface and also diaphragm will become sticky and that can slow down diaphragm movement.
> Over time, the glue that connects the driver to the cover will break down, and the driver will fall out, which can lead to damage to the voice coil wire.
> On the back, moisture is less dangerous because there is more ventilation. MX500 shells, for example, has side vents which are cowered with thick black foam,
> ...


Makes sense. Again, really appreciate the info!


----------



## 40760

jao29 said:


> Do you have any suggestions of an earbud that has the same sound sig as the zen 2.0? I’m having a hard time finding one here in the Philippines. 🙁



From what I've listened, probably the K's 300 Samsara or Yinman 600. Both are not that easy to find for my case though.


----------



## sfrsfr

WoodyLuvr said:


> Completely concur, not even in the same ballpark. Asura are very detailed with excellent timbre. Definitely, would say that the Asura leans toward the bright side with the lower/middle midrange starting at neutral and slowly turning bright as you approach the lower treble region which I think is safe to say probably the most emphasized area on this earbud.


So do I understand it correctly that Asura is better than Zen in everything except bass?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

jao29 said:


> Do you have any suggestions of an earbud that has the same sound sig as the zen 2.0? I’m having a hard time finding one here in the Philippines. 🙁


Perhaps one of Willy's recent WillSound MK2 models.


----------



## siderak

emusic13 said:


> I think moisture depends mainly where you live and how you store it. I've been using a zen 2.0 foamless for almost 6 years and it still sounds good with no problems. I do keep it in its hard case with a silica packet though


Wow thats a fantastic tip! I'm gonna start using silica packets inside my hard cases. Thanks for that!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

sfrsfr said:


> So do I understand it correctly that Asura is better than Zen in everything except bass?


Apples and oranges; they are really completely different earbuds for different purposes and tastes. Personally, I prefer Zen 2.0's signature as I am sensitive to bright/sibilant treble and lean to mellow relaxing sound as I tend to listen for very long sessions.


----------



## siderak

WoodyLuvr said:


> Perhaps one of Willy's recent WillSound MK2 models.


I love the MK2. Was a great allrounder for me. Amazed that I could hear sounds behind me. Haven't experienced that with any other earbud.


----------



## jogawag

jao29 said:


> Do you have any suggestions of an earbud that has the same sound sig as the zen 2.0? I’m having a hard time finding one here in the Philippines. 🙁


I've seen @ClieOS write that the PS100-500Ω Classic Edition (balanced) is as the same Contender as the VE Zen 2 Balanced and "Somewhere between warm + laidback and neutral. Zen 2-ish, but less warmth with slightly grainier upper vocals."

It is the first of the choices on the following page.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32796318436.html


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 30, 2021)

siderak said:


> I love the MK2. Was a great allrounder for me. Amazed that I could hear sounds behind me. Haven't experienced that with any other earbud.


Yes, besides heavy metal Willy is/was into binaural recordings perhaps explaining why it crept into his house tuning  .


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 30, 2021)

jogawag said:


> I've seen @ClieOS write that the PS100-500Ω Classic Edition (balanced) is as the same Contender as the VE Zen 2 Balanced and "Somewhere between warm + laidback and neutral. Zen 2-ish, but less warmth with slightly grainier upper vocals."
> 
> It is the first of the choices on the following page.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32796318436.html


Concur completely! Just didn't recommend them because they are very hard to reliably source these days and there is no customer support now . Be warned there are PureSounds copies using inferior drivers... many times no where near the 150, 260, 500, or 600 ohm impedance depending on the model they are copying!

I really loved my PureSounds though... miss them (*more info here*).


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 30, 2021)

sfrsfr said:


> If you go with the 2.5 balanced version, the E1DA 9038SG3 have enough power to drive high impedance earbuds. It works with ios gear, though you have to get the cable separately.
> For desktop use I am very happy with the E1DA PowerDAC v2, this one would need external power to function optimally with a mobile device. Though you get even more power and a parametric EQ for free.
> Both sound great and are an excellent value.





WoodyLuvr said:


> No issue regarding noise with lower impedance high sensitivity earbuds on the *PowerDac*?


*@sfrsfr * Not meaning to harp but I am indeed extremely interested in hearing your thoughts and experience regarding noise and low impedance high sensitivity earbuds with your E1DA PowerDac v2. Any insight would be most appreciated. Cheers.


----------



## 40760

WoodyLuvr said:


> *@sfrsfr * Not meaning to harp but I am indeed extremely interested in hearing your thoughts and experience regarding noise and low impedance high sensitivity earbuds with your E1DA PowerDac v2. Any insight would be most appreciated. Cheers.



I too was looking at the E1DA after that few previous mentions... 

I'm looking for a small footprint DAC that can drive my higher impedance (320ohms) earbuds for desktop use.


----------



## sfrsfr (Jun 30, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> *@sfrsfr * Not meaning to harp but I am indeed extremely interested in hearing your thoughts and experience regarding noise and low impedance high sensitivity earbuds with your E1DA PowerDac v2. Any insight would be most appreciated. Cheers.


I'm sorry but I can't answer this as the lowest impedance gear that I own and can connect to the PowerDAC is Tri I3, which is a 15Ω iem. No issue with noise in this case, it makes a great combo.
The PowerDAC's output impedance is 1.5Ω, so it should be fine with anything that has impedance >12Ω.
I am a fan of E1DA engineering and the PowerDAC is surely their best value.

Anyway, are there any interesting low impedance high sensitivity buds to consider?
It seems to me that the sweet spot for good sounding earbud drivers is around 150Ω...
But I'm newbie to earbuds, so looking for more surprises!


----------



## PapyKahan

palestofwhite said:


> I too was looking at the E1DA after that few previous mentions...
> 
> I'm looking for a small footprint DAC that can drive my higher impedance (320ohms) earbuds for desktop use.


I use a Luxury and Precision W2 for the same use case.

I also own a PowerDAC V2. It's volume control trough a Bluetooth app is a no go for me.


----------



## FranQL (Jun 30, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> I too was looking at the E1DA after that few previous mentions...
> 
> I'm looking for a small footprint DAC that can drive my higher impedance (320ohms) earbuds for desktop use.



Soon E1DA Cosmos dac will be released for desktop.




Dual ES9038Q2M

OPA1622 with +/-7.5V i.e. 3.5Vrms at >50ohm


----------



## baskingshark

sfrsfr said:


> I'm sorry but I can't answer this as the lowest impedance gear that I own and can connect to the PowerDAC is Tri I3, which is a 15Ω iem. No issue with noise in this case, it makes a great combo.
> The PowerDAC's output impedance is 1.5Ω, so it should be fine with anything that has impedance >12Ω.
> I am a fan of E1DA engineering and the PowerDAC is surely their best value.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info. Read lots of good things about the PowerDAC, hope to try it one day!

TRI I3 is not really a good gauge for hiss though, cause it has a planar inside and planars are generally harder to drive than conventional drivers. Indeed, TRI I3 is one of the harder to drive IEMs actually, and some lower end amps can't do the sound justice. But I think E1DA gear and PowerDAC should have no issues.

I think a high sensitivity plays a big role in hiss, more so than a low impedance, so that's the main specification we should be looking at when it comes to noise floor and hissing.


You can try a cheap RY4S 300 ohm set, it does need amping, but it is quite a nice U shaped set, not the best technicalities but quite good for the price of $13 - 15 USD.


----------



## sfrsfr

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for the info. Read lots of good things about the PowerDAC, hope to try it one day!
> 
> TRI I3 is not really a good gauge for hiss though, cause it has a planar inside and planars are generally harder to drive than conventional drivers. Indeed, TRI I3 is one of the harder to drive IEMs actually, and some lower end amps can't do the sound justice. But I think E1DA gear and PowerDAC should have no issues.
> 
> ...


In that case JCALLY EP09 with sensitivity of 139 (dB) are the highest sensitivity buds I have. No noise issue here either, though they distort as hell when trying the PowerDAC PEQ.

Still my best combo with the PowerDAC is SFR PT2021 365ohm, which take equalization really well so that makes them quite versatile.

Btw. I have the RY4S 300ohm and enjoying it!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

PapyKahan said:


> I use a Luxury and Precision W2 for the same use case.
> 
> I also own a PowerDAC V2. It's volume control trough a Bluetooth app is a no go for me.


FYI the new PowerDAC V2.1 offers UAC2 HW volume enabled by the CT7601 USB Bridge so it can be adjusted via Windows


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 30, 2021)

sfrsfr said:


> In that case JCALLY EP09 with sensitivity of 139 (dB) are the highest sensitivity buds I have. No noise issue here either, though they distort as hell when trying the PowerDAC PEQ.


Thank you, that was exactly what I was looking for... now I am seriously considering the E1DA PowerDAC v2.1 again. Just need to figure out the solution for this wonky 2dB volume increments on my keyboard scroll wheel. Just successfully solved this with an Autohotkey (.ahk) script, now I got me 1 dB increments on my volume wheel baby !

Strangely the listed sensitivity rating is all over the map... ranging from 128dB to 139dB. I did find what appears to be an official spec sheet from JCALLY which lists a sensitivity @ 128dB but it doesn't list if that measurement is dB/mW or dB/V.





Not surprising that the JCALLY EP09 isn't playing well with PEQ and power... the driver is most likely being pushed well beyond it's rated specs! See the tables below. If indeed 128 *dB/mW* one (1) measly volt is pushing those little drivers to over 142dB SPL! And if 128 *dB/V* it is still at an ear shattering 128dBSPL! With such high driver sensitivity I wouldn't be surprised if the max input power rating was something like 50-60mW with a recommended rated power of only 15-20mW!

*if dB/mW (left table) ******** if dB/V (right table)


 

*


----------



## 40760

And... it's out! The SLQ Zen and RAP 5 bundle. Zen lovers might be interested in this.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 30, 2021)

FranQL said:


> Soon E1DA Cosmos dac will be released for desktop.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Also on my consideration list but "the wait" may kill me 💀☠️⚰️!  And I am not getting any younger!


----------



## furyossa (Jun 30, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, besides heavy metal Willy is/was *into binaural recordings* perhaps explaining why it crept into his *house tuning*  .


Hmmm  ... yup... I definitely need to try these


----------



## jrazmar

Anyone here knows where to buy Seahf earbuds? Are they still making new earbuds? I was looking through my old hand bag that I used to bring to office before and was so surprised to find some old earbud stuff including a Seahf LD-3.0, Cygnus, EMX500 and Vido. I did a quick listen to each to check if they are still working and all are fine. However, of all these, I was not expecting to love the sound coming from the Seahf. It's not fancy-looking but the sound is so natural, airy and balanced. I already forgot that it sounded this good and no matter what genre I toss it, it can play beautifully. I am hooked and it is now my daily driver giving my Turandot a nice vacation.


----------



## SiggyFraud

The VE Monk Slim Metal is available for pre-order via Veclan store for USD 19,80, if anyone's interested.
https://www.veclan.com/phone/eac_phone_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=58


----------



## iFi audio

furyossa said:


> . Just imagine a combo X6 and iFi Diablo  (the match from hell)



Haven't heard it, so let me ask what's so special about it  ?


----------



## jogawag (Jun 30, 2021)

Monk slim metal Venture Electronics


SiggyFraud said:


> The VE Monk Slim Metal is available for pre-order via Veclan store for USD 19,80, if anyone's interested.
> https://www.veclan.com/phone/eac_phone_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=58


That url didn't work, so here's an alternative.
https://www.veclan.com/engappliance...2KmDVb_GPCNfX7JKOaFvlSki2_ZCxPX4yVMlrtQMmWUjr 0NhZcUCw


----------



## jeejack (Jun 30, 2021)

jogawag said:


> Monk slim metal Venture Electronics
> 
> That url didn't work, so here's an alternative.
> https://www.veclan.com/engappliance...2KmDVb_GPCNfX7JKOaFvlSki2_ZCxPX4yVMlrtQMmWUjr 0NhZcUCw


Will they also be available on Aliexpress?


----------



## jogawag

jeejack said:


> Will they also be available on Aliexpress


I'm sorry, but I don't know.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 30, 2021)

iFi audio said:


> Haven't heard it, so let me ask what's so special about it  ?


Hi there   This is are little "earbud" joke here on this thread regarding the X6 buds.
If you follow this thread, you will probably notice that Yincrow X6 is the most recommended and most popular bud here and is mentioned on literally every page. Also, this model has great value for the price.
A recent question was regarding the DAC/AMP recommendation. I am currently using iFi Zen DAC with all my earbuds (16Ω-600Ω), it performs really great, and I'm perfectly happy with it. Your new DIablo is probably the most beautiful DAC that I saw because of that "Ferrari" red color and of course small and compact design.
The name "Diablo" matches the color, but the X6 has a red color, so it fits perfectly in that combination. Are you agree?


----------



## sfrsfr

jogawag said:


> Monk slim metal Venture Electronics
> 
> That url didn't work, so here's an alternative.
> https://www.veclan.com/engappliance...2KmDVb_GPCNfX7JKOaFvlSki2_ZCxPX4yVMlrtQMmWUjr 0NhZcUCw


I will be ordering the Monk slim metal. Lee says they will start shipping next week already.


----------



## nymz

Same, just ordered a Monk Slim Metal and the foams with the freebies


----------



## n00b (Jun 30, 2021)

n00b said:


> i can't get them to sit in my ears that way. i was messing around with the thicker/bigger silicone rings.. but then it loses its characteristic bass presentation. at that point, i might as well listen to any other 'earbud'-tuned bud. at this point I use the 'bassy' full foams and just accept the darker sound signature, but mainly because im spoiled in that i have upper mid/treble champions in the chaconne and nicehcks.
> 
> it also might entirely depend on your library. guitars, bass, and drums sound real nice on the EM5s. male vocals too. but all my shameful girl group kpop and ballads seem better on the chaconne


slight update but i am now leaning towards returning the FiiO EM5. with the prime day discount and tax they came out to around $275.. the rolled off/veiled treble/upper frequencies  and stuffy/closed feeling is a bit too much to overcome despite the great bass response for my library. i tried using the silicone rings and while it did open up a bit without sacrificing much bass quantity, the characteristic extension and rumble towards the lowest end is lost and it's just not the same. It sounds like an average bud that way. The highs are a bit rough/sharp sounding and then it becomes mostly midbass focused which I think you can find with better technicalities in buds a fraction of the price.

With full foams on, which still sound best to me because they leverage the shell's bass flute design thing the best, there are just too many compromises that it isn't worth it. With earbuds the main draw over IEMs for me is 1. openness 2. comfort. But because the EM5s don't sound very open to begin with I can just get a much better listening experience for the same part of my library (warning: kpop) using an IEM like, IKKO OH10 with good bass and female vocal presentation (which is also very comfortable despite their heft). I don't think additional burn-in can help the EM5, but I will try my best to get some hours in before the return window end of July.

I will say though the cable on the FiiO EM5 is great. I would probably value that at $110 alone. I might just buy a silver FiiO cable and use it with the Smabat M2S Pro if it's as good as its made out to be.

edit: also slight annoyance about the EM5 is that the shell and cable terminations are not actually black or smoke black they're like a very deep grey/blue color. I'm not tryna collect blue earbuds

edit2: another good way to summarize the EM5 vs say, the Chaconne is with the EM5 you're listening to the band and there's a vocalist. With the Chaconne you're listening to the singer and they have a band supporting them. Instruments like drums, bass, and guitar outshine female vocals in the mix on the EM5. Chaconne definitely spotlight the singer. I want to say the EM5 do better with male vocals and everything sounds a bit more balanced. I don't feel like I need to turn up the volume to hear male vocals over instruments as much, but the effect of band-first/distant vocal presentation is still there. for example, EM5 beat Chaconne at some band-supported hip hop like The Roots. Sure, the Chaconne has more vocal clarity but I don't think that's the most compelling part of music from The Roots. The EM5 fills everything out better and highlights the music's strengths rather than hampering them like they might do for a female vocal ballad

edit3: HMMMM yea EM5 slay at male vocal songs like Giveon - Heartbreak Anniversary


----------



## furyossa

nymz said:


> Same, just ordered a Monk Slim Metal and the foams with the freebies


Let us pray that this model also reaches the popularity of the X6 model. Maybe we have an X6 killer here? 
What do yo'all think?


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Let us pray that this model also reaches the popularity of the X6 model. Maybe we have an X6 killer here?
> What do yo'all think?


probably not based on the monk lite/plus...the X6 is multiple leagues ahead of those 2, so this new one sure needs to have improved A LOOOOOOT to even be a match for the X6....


----------



## FranQL

an enigma, it can be a new standard of quality at that price ... or ... it can be a monk with a metal casing ...


----------



## nymz (Jun 30, 2021)

Well I just got into the bud world this week, but to me, the Monk Plus (got a 4.4mm balanced SPC version) is not worse than X6 when you feed it power... X6 bass is better tho.

Edit: Will only draw real conclusions when the last buds I bought arrive. Still missing Ks LBBS and Smabat M2S Pro (+ the 150ohm driver)


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> probably not based on the monk lite/plus...the X6 is multiple leagues ahead of those 2, so this new one sure needs to have improved A LOOOOOOT to even be a match for the X6....





FranQL said:


> an enigma, it can be a new standard of quality at that price ... or ...* it can be a monk with a metal casing* ...


That will be sad. As @RikudouGoku said, they need to "step up" in the game to match X6 capability


----------



## RikudouGoku

nymz said:


> Well I just got into the bud world this week, but to me, the Monk Plus (got a 4.4mm balanced SPC version) is not worse than X6 when you feed it power... X6 bass is better tho.


I used it with my previous dap, the Fiio M11. (it was the standard version though.)

Still sounded so bad I gave it away....

The lite on the other hand is still with me due to that unique shell, tried using it with the Schiit Asgard 3, still sounds really bad....


----------



## furyossa (Jun 30, 2021)

nymz said:


> *Well I just got into the bud world this week*, but to me, the Monk Plus (got a 4.4mm balanced SPC version) is not worse than X6 when you feed it power... X6 bass is better tho.
> 
> Edit: Will only draw real conclusions when the last buds I bought arrive. Still missing Ks LBBS and Smabat M2S Pro (+ the 150ohm driver)


Welcome! I hope you will enjoy the "ride" with this bumpy train.


----------



## Carrow

Monk Go, Monk Plus Coffee _and _Monk Slim Metal on the way!!


----------



## nymz

RikudouGoku said:


> I used it with my previous dap, the Fiio M11. (it was the standard version though.)
> 
> Still sounded so bad I gave it away....
> 
> The lite on the other hand is still with me due to that unique shell, tried using it with the Schiit Asgard 3, still sounds really bad....



Guess i'm just badge judging then  But value wise, Yincrow X6 are the best thing i've came across so far. Sometimes I have to remember they cost less than 10 bucks!


----------



## nymz

furyossa said:


> Welcome! I hope you will enjoy the "ride" with this bumpy train.



Thanks. Trying to learn by the day. Got a couple of Buds to find my tastes, but so far, as predicted, Riku's rec is still ahead


----------



## furyossa

nymz said:


> Thanks. Trying to learn by the day. Got a couple of Buds to find my tastes, but so far, as predicted, Riku's rec is still ahead


Just take it easy. Not rush and don't forget to enjoy before you go deep into the


----------



## furyossa (Jun 30, 2021)

Carrow said:


> Monk Go, Monk Plus Coffee _and _Monk Slim Metal on the way!!


Wow, 3 in a row. If you go at that pace, you can become a monk too


----------



## RikudouGoku

n00b said:


> slight update but i am now leaning towards returning the FiiO EM5. with the prime day discount and tax they came out to around $275.. the rolled off/veiled treble/upper frequencies  and stuffy/closed feeling is a bit too much to overcome despite the great bass response for my library. i tried using the silicone rings and while it did open up a bit without sacrificing much bass quantity, the characteristic extension and rumble towards the lowest end is lost and it's just not the same. It sounds like an average bud that way. The highs are a bit rough/sharp sounding and then it becomes mostly midbass focused which I think you can find with better technicalities in buds a fraction of the price.
> 
> With full foams on, which still sound best to me because they leverage the shell's bass flute design thing the best, there are just too many compromises that it isn't worth it. With earbuds the main draw over IEMs for me is 1. openness 2. comfort. But because the EM5s don't sound very open to begin with I can just get a much better listening experience for the same part of my library (warning: kpop) using an IEM like, IKKO OH10 with good bass and female vocal presentation (which is also very comfortable despite their heft). I don't think additional burn-in can help the EM5, but I will try my best to get some hours in before the return window end of July.
> 
> ...


Not hard to beat the Chaconne for male vocals and bass though. But upper-mids to treble? Good luck.


----------



## Sam L

n00b said:


> FiiO EM5 got here, initial impressions are. Drums sound like drums. Full, dynamic, thumpy, fast, slammin. I would say there's actual subbass extension and rumble, midbass feels clean and natural, although I do feel an overall sense of 'body' to the music. Unfortunately everything else sounds a bit distant, if not muffled. By comparison Chaconne have a bell-like clarity for female vocals and, well, bells, etc. The FiiO EM5 overall feel "thick" and "laid back", bordering on "dark" or veiled. Female vocals feel a bit hollow or thin, maaaybe even rough/sharp, and feel like they're behind me and to either side of me. The presentation isn't as intimate, emotional and forward as the other buds I have, but I guess those are more upper mid/treble-strong (EBX21, Chaconne, ME80).
> 
> I'm swapping between Chaconne and EM5 right now and the Chaconne is definitely more 'open' feeling, airy, sparkly. The EM5 by contrast feels dummy thicc, almost muffled. Like going from a concert hall (Chaconne) to a club or warehouse party (EM5). Maybe some burn in (ie: 300 hours lmao) is necessary to open these up as well. As for tips, I'm using Chaconne with a silicone ring and then a single full foam over it, with EM5 I'm just using a single full foam (same as the Chaconne one, not the provided FiiO one since I might return these.)
> 
> ...


Good summary of the EM5. The EM5 doesn't really fundamentally change the curve that is so common with buds (125hz bump, 1-3k dip), it sounds great regardless. My compensation file will bring pronounced clarity, by the way.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 30, 2021)

nymz said:


> Same, just ordered a Monk Slim Metal and the foams with the freebies


I have also ordered the Monk slim metal.
I hope it is not as heavy as the DQSM Turandot. (The Expensive DQSM Turandot was bought  on Amazon, so I could easily return it for free.)


----------



## n00b (Jun 30, 2021)

Sam L said:


> Good summary of the EM5. The EM5 doesn't really fundamentally change the curve that is so common with buds (125hz bump, 1-3k dip), it sounds great regardless. My compensation file will bring pronounced clarity, by the way.


i am like 99% sure im doing this wrong. is this close to your compensation file? i checked your thread and just plugged this into my walkman since I dont run wavelet or anything. it does bring clarity, i'll give you that. in that sense it is kinda nice to, with one tap, basically change the earbuds sound signature entirely. depending on what I listen to its like I'm switching buds. 



Spoiler: photo










edit: also, what did you find changed with significant burn in on EM5?


----------



## baskingshark

n00b said:


> slight update but i am now leaning towards returning the FiiO EM5. with the prime day discount and tax they came out to around $275.. the rolled off/veiled treble/upper frequencies  and stuffy/closed feeling is a bit too much to overcome despite the great bass response for my library. i tried using the silicone rings and while it did open up a bit without sacrificing much bass quantity, the characteristic extension and rumble towards the lowest end is lost and it's just not the same. It sounds like an average bud that way. The highs are a bit rough/sharp sounding and then it becomes mostly midbass focused which I think you can find with better technicalities in buds a fraction of the price.
> 
> With full foams on, which still sound best to me because they leverage the shell's bass flute design thing the best, there are just too many compromises that it isn't worth it. With earbuds the main draw over IEMs for me is 1. openness 2. comfort. But because the EM5s don't sound very open to begin with I can just get a much better listening experience for the same part of my library (warning: kpop) using an IEM like, IKKO OH10 with good bass and female vocal presentation (which is also very comfortable despite their heft). I don't think additional burn-in can help the EM5, but I will try my best to get some hours in before the return window end of July.
> 
> ...



I auditioned the Fiio EM5 for about 45 min a few months ago, wasn't too impressed with it too, considering the price. I had a major issue with the fit, but YMMV cause we have different ear anatomies. And yeah, agree the EM5 fluctuated between having too sharp highs versus too midbass focused, depending on what foams are used, couldn't find an in between tuning that suited me.

I understand that as one goes up the ladder, diminishing returns kick in hard, but the biggest dealbreaker for me was the fixed cables - yes the EM5 has some distal modular thingy to connect other 3.5mm/balance connectors, but the proximal cable part is non detachable, some of us may wanna use BT adapters with it, or are just worried about non detachable cable lifespan. Well other TOTL earbuds may also not have detachable cables, so different strokes for different folks, I know some really like the EM5.


----------



## n00b

still love the chaconne tho. went full moondrop here. cant get rid of em now im too invested in the anime ecosystem


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 1, 2021)

Check out Wong's (Blur) latest creation *here*


----------



## nymz

Guys, since I'm new, I need your opinion. What do you think about the VE Zen 2.0? There's a bundle atm with the SLQ version + the Amp that I'm thinking about buying


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 1, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> 'Curiouser and curiouser' (as Alice in Wonderland exclaimed), the shell material is rather dark... it appears to be *brushed magnesium-iron alloy* as the brushed molding grade of titanium is usually much lighter in color and shinier (more mirror like) and brushed aluminum of course is much whiter in color and duller (due to that it shows casting/machining marks more clearly).


So the new *Bell-TI Plus* shell is indeed a CNC'd iron alloy (ferroalloy) shell... however, not an alloy of magnesium as I had first suspected but rather indeed titanium. They have gone with 钛合金 ferrotitanium (10–20% iron; 45–75% titanium; ~% carbon) this time around instead of pure titanium as it is much much easier (cheaper) to mold, machine, and finish. The grade of ferrotitanium that they have chosen must be very high in carbon, perhaps may even have a small amount of magnesium or manganese in it left over from the alloying process, which would explain the rather dark color and brush finish seen in the official store pictures.

Here are the specs:

*2021 Ks Temperament 钛铃 Bell-Ti Plus (30Ω)*




As compared to the original Bell-Ti the Plus has a larger diameter driver and is only offered in 30Ω with a sensitivity 3dB lower @ 103dB.

*2018 K's Temperament 钛铃 Bell-Ti (30Ω/120Ω)*


----------



## 40760

nymz said:


> Guys, since I'm new, I need your opinion. What do you think about the VE Zen 2.0? There's a bundle atm with the SLQ version + the Amp that I'm thinking about buying



I find the Zen 2.0 SLQ and RAP5 bundle to be a really good deal. The SLQ version removes the "veil" of the regular version which some do not like. I will put it somewhere between the regular Zen 2.0 and Sun series.

I have yet really played with RAP5 amp as I'm still waiting for a pair 3.5mm to 2x RCA cables to use with my iFi ZEN DAC.


----------



## iFi audio

furyossa said:


> Hi there  This is are little "earbud" joke here on this thread regarding the X6 buds.
> If you follow this thread, you will probably notice that Yincrow X6 is the most recommended and most popular bud here and is mentioned on literally every page. Also, this model has great value for the price.
> A recent question was regarding the DAC/AMP recommendation. I am currently using iFi Zen DAC with all my earbuds (16Ω-600Ω), it performs really great, and I'm perfectly happy with it. Your new DIablo is probably the most beautiful DAC that I saw because of that "Ferrari" red color and of course small and compact design.
> The name "Diablo" matches the color, but the X6 has a red color, so it fits perfectly in that combination. Are you agree?



Thanks, I'll investigate these earbuds. Just took a look at their price and was like, wow. As for looks, with Diablo this would look awesome, but I don't think that many folks would aim for this pairing


----------



## furyossa

iFi audio said:


> Thanks, I'll investigate these earbuds. Just took a look at their price and was like, wow. As for looks, with Diablo this would look awesome, but I don't think that many folks would aim for this pairing


Most folks underestimated or avoided earbuds until they tried them and then became permanent members of this thread 
And to be honest the only things that is allowed to touch my ears on this hot summer days are a pair of earbuds   
If you are looking a bit more serious candidate for Diablo this pair will probably shine with it https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/ty-hi-z-hp-650.html


----------



## nymz

Aliexpress is now taxing VAT. Adds 23% on my country. RIP


----------



## iFi audio

furyossa said:


> Most folks underestimated or avoided earbuds until they tried them and then became permanent members of this thread



Will give this a try one day, just to know what you speak of 



furyossa said:


> If you are looking a bit more serious candidate for Diablo this pair will probably shine with it https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/ty-hi-z-hp-650.html



Thanks, I guess it's time to look at earbuds more seriously now.


----------



## digititus

iFi audio said:


> Thanks, I guess it's time to look at earbuds more seriously now.


Welcome to the party


----------



## ian91

Just received my Faaeal Rosemary and Iris. Impressed with both but absolutely loving the Rosemary out of the C9. Perfect expression of strings and wind instruments. I'm in love!


----------



## iFi audio

digititus said:


> Welcome to the party


----------



## RikudouGoku

iFi audio said:


> Thanks, I'll investigate these earbuds. Just took a look at their price and was like, wow. As for looks, with Diablo this would look awesome, but I don't think that many folks would aim for this pairing


Well, I am using the X6 with the Schiit Asgard 3. The amp is 20x more expensive than the transducer here.


----------



## furyossa (Jul 1, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Well, I am using the X6 with the Schiit Asgard 3. The amp is 20x more expensive than the transducer here.


If that combo bringing you a joy then the price difference is not important. 
But it is sad when the situation is another way around, I mean when you are not satisfied and when you use expensive buds on a cheap mp3 player


----------



## rprodrigues

ian91 said:


> Just received my Faaeal Rosemary and Iris. Impressed with both but absolutely loving the Rosemary out of the C9. Perfect expression of strings and wind instruments. I'm in love!



Faaeal Rosemary is a keeper!


----------



## iFi audio

RikudouGoku said:


> Well, I am using the X6 with the Schiit Asgard 3. The amp is 20x more expensive than the transducer here.



I'm on the same page with @furyossa as far as such marriages go. If it sounds good, it sounds good


----------



## furyossa

iFi audio said:


> I'm on the same page with @furyossa as far as such marriages go. If it sounds good, it sounds good


Let's  to that!
I have a question. Most of the buds use non-detachable cable (mostly 3.5mm SE or 2.5mm balanced). Is it safe to use an adapter cable for iFi devices (iFi Zen DAC in this case)?
I tried only 6.35mm to 3.5mm and works fine, but what about 4.4mm to 2.5mm or 4.4mm to 3.5mm SE?


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Let's  to that!
> I have a question. Most of the buds use non-detachable cable (mostly 3.5mm SE or 2.5mm balanced). Is it safe to use an adapter cable for iFi devices (iFi Zen DAC in this case)?
> I tried only 6.35mm to 3.5mm and works fine, but what about 4.4mm to 2.5mm or 4.4mm to 3.5mm SE?


Balanced -> SE fine

Balanced (2.5) -> Balanced (4.4) or vice versa fine

SE -> Balanced DONT DO THIS!!!!


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> SE -> Balanced DONT DO THIS!!!!


   Why would anyone do that.
It's like putting out a fire with gasoline
Even Balanced (2.5) -> Balanced (4.4)I don't see fine, vice versa is ok


----------



## baskingshark

furyossa said:


> Why would anyone do that.
> It's like putting out a fire with gasoline
> Even Balanced (2.5) -> Balanced (4.4)I don't see fine, vice versa is ok



I see some unscrupulous shops selling this single ended to balanced adapters actually. I think those who are new to the hobby will end up spoiling their sources with it.


----------



## furyossa (Jul 1, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> I see some unscrupulous shops selling this single ended to balanced adapters actually. I think those who are new to the hobby will end up spoiling their sources with it.


I just remembered I had one like that. I'm guilty, arrest me 


I got this as a gratis when I bought some cables and I will use a female 3.5mm plug for DIY SE extension cable, probably.
BTW I tried this with S.M.S.L IQ and the noise is unbearable.


----------



## HombreCangrejo

nymz said:


> Aliexpress is now taxing VAT. Adds 23% on my country. RIP



They're trying to sweeten the transition, with coupons equivalent to the VAT for small purchases (5, 10 €), but for EU citizens this is a drastic change, no doubt.


----------



## HombreCangrejo

furyossa said:


> Why would anyone do that.
> It's like putting out a fire with gasoline
> Even Balanced (2.5) -> Balanced (4.4)I don't see fine, vice versa is ok



Are you talking about 2.5 in the source? In that case, I agree. 2.5 in the cable and 4.4 in the source is working perfectly for me, as I can use 2.5 in Hiby R3 Pro and 4.4 with Dunu adapter, or even the Hiby impedance adapter, depending of the headphone, in the A50s.


----------



## furyossa

HombreCangrejo said:


> Are you talking about 2.5 in the source? In that case, I agree. 2.5 in the cable and 4.4 in the source is working perfectly for me, as I can use 2.5 in Hiby R3 Pro and 4.4 with Dunu adapter, or even the Hiby impedance adapter, depending of the headphone, in the A50s.


Yup 2.5mm (male) to 4.4mm (female)


----------



## nymz

HombreCangrejo said:


> They're trying to sweeten the transition, with coupons equivalent to the VAT for small purchases (5, 10 €), but for EU citizens this is a drastic change, no doubt.



Yeah... It's 2 much... Well, I contacted Lee and we tried to figure a way around it. But not sure it will work. For every 500€ spent, i'll have to pay 115€ in taxes now... Will go back to using amazon more for IEMs etc, for sure. For earbuds... Well, maybe it's a reason to spend less now


----------



## Smasher

Anybody know if there is sound difference between Zen LL and SLQ version? Or it just the cable?


----------



## Narayan23

nymz said:


> Aliexpress is now taxing VAT. Adds 23% on my country. RIP


As of today the new VAT laws are in effect in the EU, which basically means we pay VAT for everything regardless of value, the days of wine and roses are over.

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=6916c263-8b67-4f7b-8135-917c7e53834b


*4. VAT also due on purchases of low value*

In principle, all goods imported into the EU are subject to VAT. However, at this moment shipments with low value (maximum EUR 22) from outside the EU to customers within the EU, are exempt from VAT.

This exception will also be abolished.


----------



## nymz

Narayan23 said:


> As of today the new VAT laws are in effect in the EU, which basically means we pay VAT for everything regardless of value, the days of wine and roses are over.
> 
> https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=6916c263-8b67-4f7b-8135-917c7e53834b
> 
> ...



It wasnt smart from my side. I work in the accounting area and saw this comming for my clients, but never tought on how it affects our addiction, lol..


----------



## fonkepala (Jul 1, 2021)

waynes world said:


> I concur with all of the above. Love the Shoonth ESEP-01BL sound, but not so much the cable. Below is an image of me holding up my pair. Just a little bit stiff lol! But that doesn't stop me from using them every night in bed.


That reminds me of a DIY Docomo black that I have. Not much info on it except that it came in a black carry pouch labelled 'S1 Audio'. Cable is almost wire-like and is very stiff. If I coil/wind it up as I normally do with other buds and leave it for a day or two, it'll stay coiled haha. Then I have to leave it hanging straight down from somewhere to make it more or less manageable & straight again. Sounds good, tho...just wish the cable was better.



furyossa said:


> Also, RY4S. MMCX mod is very simple to do, but to be honest it seems very ugly (disrupts aesthetics).
> This type of mmcx implementation is good starting point for MX500 shells.


Looks like the shell is shortened. Won't that affect the SS?



furyossa said:


> Poor low end (too open in front of driver) and fit are the main issue of this earbud design.


Concur. My Hessian Ansata (non-pro) sounds good but gave me all sorts of grief with regard to fit & comfort.



WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur. I highly doubt I will ever buy a Ks product again. The brand is now on my "no-no" list along with xDuoo, Audeze, Grado, and Jamo.


May I know your negative experience with Grado & Jamo, specifically?



RikudouGoku said:


> The lite on the other hand is still with me due to that unique shell, tried using it with the Schiit Asgard 3, still sounds really bad....


Which version of the Lite do you have, the standard 40 ohm or the 120 ohm? The latter is one of my all time favourite buds. It is 'almost' perfect with the exception of the cable. For $20, it's acceptable tho and I really love it.



ian91 said:


> Just received my Faaeal Rosemary and Iris. Impressed with both but absolutely loving the Rosemary out of the C9. Perfect expression of strings and wind instruments. I'm in love!


Grats! Do you find the Rosemary to be very warm & smooth? It's been a while since I put mine on, might just do it soon.


----------



## RikudouGoku

fonkepala said:


> Which version of the Lite do you have, the standard 40 ohm or the 120 ohm? The latter is one of my all time favourite buds. It is 'almost' perfect with the exception of the cable. For $20, it's acceptable tho and I really love it.


I got the standard, I got them in a bundle including one of their dongles, Monk lite/plus and Bonus IE.


----------



## fonkepala

RikudouGoku said:


> I got the standard, I got them in a bundle including one of their dongles, Monk lite/plus and Bonus IE.


Then I suggest you check out the 120 ohm version of the Lite. It's like a whole different beast.  @DBaldock9 would agree, I think.


----------



## RikudouGoku

fonkepala said:


> Then I suggest you check out the 120 ohm version of the Lite. It's like a whole different beast.  @DBaldock9 would agree, I think.


Not interested in more buds atm, especially since I got 5 buds on the way from the last sale lol.


----------



## fonkepala

RikudouGoku said:


> Not interested in more buds atm, especially since I got 5 buds on the way from the last sale lol.


Ah, ok. I'm quite certain you'll be favourable towards the Ancestor.


----------



## RikudouGoku

fonkepala said:


> Ah, ok. I'm quite certain you'll be favourable towards the Ancestor.


Hopefully, guess we find out next month lol.


----------



## furyossa

fonkepala said:


> Looks like the shell is shortened. Won't that affect the SS?


This is a modded version, of course it will affect the SS but not because it is shorter than because the bass port is closed. You need to open bass port on another place


----------



## iFi audio

furyossa said:


> Let's  to that!


Let's. 



baskingshark said:


> I see some unscrupulous shops selling this single ended to balanced adapters actually. I think those who are new to the hobby will end up spoiling their sources with it.



Let's call it the audiophile natural selection 

Btw. yes, these adapters can be troublesome.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Well, I am using the X6 with the Schiit Asgard 3. The amp is 20x more expensive than the transducer here.


You probably know what I'm thinking when I see a device like this https://ifi-audio.com/products/zen-can-signature-6xx/
You would immediately sell your Asgard 3 if iFi build new the ZEN CAN Signature model. But this time, ZEN CAN Signature *X6. *


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> You probably know what I'm thinking when I see a device like this https://ifi-audio.com/products/zen-can-signature-6xx/
> You would immediately sell your Asgard 3 if iFi build new the ZEN CAN Signature model. But this time, ZEN CAN Signature *X6. *


Love my Asgard 3, that one will stay with me until it dies.


----------



## furyossa (Jul 1, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Love my Asgard 3, that one will stay with me until it dies.


I understand what you are saying. You will hardly find earbuds that would be a real challenge for the Asgard3.
Maybe if they ever throw out a planar model, but ... 
Asgard can only be destroyed by this guy (Surtur - Fire Demon) so you DAC is safe for now


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> I understand what you are saying. You will hardly find earbuds that would be a real challenge for the Asgard3.
> Maybe if they ever throw out a planar model, but ...


The only transducer that forces me to use high gain with it, is the Tin Hifi P1 with EQ.


----------



## siderak

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, besides heavy metal Willy is/was into binaural recordings perhaps explaining why it crept into his house tuning  .


Wow that’s really interesting! Makes a lot of sense!


----------



## furyossa (Jul 1, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> The only transducer that forces me to use high gain with it, is the Tin Hifi P1 with EQ.


Yup.
@ClieOS already have the nice pair of planar buds. This will be the great bud for your DAC.
I'm really surprised that no one has dared to make at least one model so far.
It would be nice if this driver could connect with Smabat modular shell


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Yup.
> @ClieOS already have the nice pair of planar buds. This will be the great bud for your DAC.
> I'm really surprised that no one has dared to make at least one model so far.
> It would be nice if this driver could connect with Smabat modular shell


Planars might not be ready yet though, if how they perform in the iem world is any indication for their bud performance....


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Planars might not be ready yet though, if how they perform in the iem world is any indication for their bud performance....


The price of the driver itself is a problem. I think the price of earbuds should be over $300, but that doesn't matter anymore these days


----------



## siderak

n00b said:


> slight update but i am now leaning towards returning the FiiO EM5. with the prime day discount and tax they came out to around $275.. the rolled off/veiled treble/upper frequencies  and stuffy/closed feeling is a bit too much to overcome despite the great bass response for my library. i tried using the silicone rings and while it did open up a bit without sacrificing much bass quantity, the characteristic extension and rumble towards the lowest end is lost and it's just not the same. It sounds like an average bud that way. The highs are a bit rough/sharp sounding and then it becomes mostly midbass focused which I think you can find with better technicalities in buds a fraction of the price.
> 
> With full foams on, which still sound best to me because they leverage the shell's bass flute design thing the best, there are just too many compromises that it isn't worth it. With earbuds the main draw over IEMs for me is 1. openness 2. comfort. But because the EM5s don't sound very open to begin with I can just get a much better listening experience for the same part of my library (warning: kpop) using an IEM like, IKKO OH10 with good bass and female vocal presentation (which is also very comfortable despite their heft). I don't think additional burn-in can help the EM5, but I will try my best to get some hours in before the return window end of July.
> 
> ...


You’re making me feel better about cancelling my order. I decided I needed a new audio interface instead and went with a really nice audient id14 mk2. Very happy with it!
I know I would most certainly miss the top end if I got the em5.
Please keep us posted if anything changes with burn in!


----------



## rkw (Jul 1, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Even Balanced (2.5) -> Balanced (4.4) I don't see fine


Why do you feel that way? Many portable devices only have 2.5 for balanced output. If the earphone cables only have 4.4 termination, there is no choice except to use an adapter.


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> The price of the driver itself is a problem. I think the price of earbuds should be over $300, but that doesn't matter anymore these days


I will give planars a few more years before I look more at them in the iem/bud world tbh...

They need to mature more in performance and in price.


----------



## furyossa

rkw said:


> Why do you feel that way? Many portable devices only have 2.5 for balanced output. If you have earphone cables that only have 4.4 termination, there is no choice except to use an adapter.


I'm not the expert to give advice in case of such an adapter, but I think you will mostly get the answer to not use this adapter


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> I'm not the expert to give advice in case of such an adapter, but I think you will mostly get the answer to not use this adapter


Its fine to use it. As long as it isnt an SE -> Balanced adapter it is fine.


----------



## BlacLord

Hi, I'm looking to replace my **** KP120s as one is dodgy and the other one, whilst fully functioning, has become unstuck and is only being held together by the foam...

After hearing a lot about the Yincrow X6s, I was wondering if anyone with experience of both could give me an idea of how they measure up against one another? If the X6 is only Monk-tier, then it's a tier below what I'm looking for.


----------



## RikudouGoku

BlacLord said:


> Hi, I'm looking to replace my **** KP120s as one is dodgy and the other one, whilst fully functioning, has become unstuck and is only being held together by the foam...
> 
> After hearing a lot about the Yincrow X6s, I was wondering if anyone with experience of both could give me an idea of how they measure up against one another? If the X6 is only Monk-tier, then it's a tier below what I'm looking for.


Monk tier? lol


----------



## furyossa

BlacLord said:


> Hi, I'm looking to replace my **** KP120s as one is dodgy and the other one, whilst fully functioning, has become unstuck and is only being held together by the foam...
> 
> After hearing a lot about the Yincrow X6s, I was wondering if anyone with experience of both could give me an idea of how they measure up against one another? If the X6 is only Monk-tier, then it's a tier below what I'm looking for.


The situation is reversed. KP120 is a Monk-tier. It's time to move on to X6. KP120  is a big miss while the KP110 went unnoticed even though it had a DLC driver
KP220 an KP330 are just desperate attempts to continue the series but it didn't last


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Monk tier? lol






Position of KP120


----------



## jogawag (Jul 1, 2021)

I like the earbuds of Onmyoji for DAP and LBBS for mobile phone so much that I have used only them in the last two weeks.





I would love to post about how much I love their sound but I don't have the talent.

So instead, I'd like to give you an English translation of Onmyoji's and LBBS's review from the following "Kaiser Flathead Series Detailed Crossover Review of Onmyoji Smurf White Bell White Bell Bass Little Black Bell S Reincarnation Jedi Reincarnation" that I've mentioned before.

https://post.smzdm.com/p/a830k83l/


Onmyoji
======

Tags: full range high energy, balance, airiness, liveliness, transparency, strong dynamic resolution, vocal toxicity, natural resonance, muted.

What I wrote at the beginning about Onmyoji is that it is the sound that best represents K's sound architecture.
Overall, I rate the Onmyoji as a relatively flawless earbuds.
The first thing that runs through the K's sound tuning style is a large, loose, transparent soundstage for durable listening pleasure.
The tone is then built on this base scene. Onmyoji is based on a large soundstage with both transparent and airy highs, ambient lows and a characteristically very airy midrange.
Not overly tinted, yet still easy to listen to. It is very clinical.
The sound is very dense, yet airy, allowing the listener to understand the white space.
This yin and yang approach gives you the feeling of really swimming. You can listen to all kinds of music with ease.
On the vocal side, you can hear everything from rap to hi-fi audiophile vocals, making Onmyoji the best earbuds on the market.
This is because it is as refreshing as drinking a cup of fresh tea. It's this rawness that allows you to sing the most vibrant raps, but also the most sophisticated godfathers, without breaking the harmony.
Listening to the strings, big compilations and dynamics, the sense of form, separation, dynamics, transients and lines are all at Flathead's flagship level, with the scraped string sounds and vocals coexisting perfectly.
This freshness is a true masterstroke.


Little Black Bell S (LBBS)
====================

Tags: aggressive value for money, sound architecture like Onmyoji, material savings and must be Onmyoji, personal quantification could have 70% of Onmyoji's power. The density and control of the vocals are not as good, but the size summary is much more playful than the price range. They feel good to wear and are not too expensive, making them good value for money, whether you are listening to them yourself or giving them as a gift to a loved one.

Little Black Bell S This earbuds must be highly recommended now. Because the value for money is so obvious.
Between the quality of the music from the sub-flagship of the ear to the flagship, this price range is simply a bomb in deep water, firstly, not for the lower price range, and cuts the sense of range, transparency and resolution.
I think he reproduces more faithfully the tone, backbone and scale similar to Onmyoji.
Of course, those with extraordinarily good ears will be able to distinguish the soundstage, transparency and resolution or Onmyoji, but those with mediocre ears will undoubtedly be misled. My wife has normal ears and she can't hear much difference between the Little Black Bell S and the Onmyoji on certain songs on her mobile phone.
Then, of course, the quality and control of the hardware is still not as good as Onmyoji's, and the vocals are a bit thinner and less dense than his.
The overall sound reference shade reviews, tone and sound architecture etc are similar.
What is there is never lost. You can think of the Onmyoji as the Buddha wall of famous and expensive materials, and the Little Black Bell S as the Buddha wall of the chef's internal everyday cooking with humble materials.
Overall, these earbuds are the best push.
It is ideal for those who want to have a crossover expectation despite its entry price. The sound is well balanced and suitable for any kind of music performance.


----------



## nymz

jogawag said:


> I like the earbuds of Onmyoji for DAP and LBBS for mobile phone so much that I have used only them in the last two weeks.
> 
> I would love to post about how much I love their sound but I don't have the talent.
> 
> ...



Nice description. Now i cant wait for my lbbs to arrive next week


----------



## nymz

furyossa said:


> Position of KP120



Damn, I'm kinda sad monks aren't getting much love. I kinda like the plus balanced with M3X/BTR5. Will have the metal one and zen 2.0 sqc coming up. Hope I don't disappointed


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> I like the earbuds of Onmyoji for DAP and LBBS for mobile phone so much that I have used only them in the last two weeks.
> 
> I would love to post about how much I love their sound but I don't have the talent.
> 
> ...


I like your review. Very pictorially explained, Just add few photos to complete whole thing.


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> I like your review. Very pictorially explained, Just add few photos to complete whole thing.


I believe he just translated someone else´ review though.


----------



## BlacLord

RikudouGoku said:


> Monk tier? lol


How big is the difference between M2s Pro and the X6?


----------



## RikudouGoku

BlacLord said:


> How big is the difference between M2s Pro and the X6?


Check my review.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> I believe he just translated someone else´ review though.


However, this is not very easy to translate, just look at how many Chinese symbols are in the text. 
@jogawag I appreciate your effort


----------



## chaiyuta

@jogawag : Is your Onmyoji 2020 version or 2021 version? I remember that Onmyoji has 2 kinds version..


----------



## BlacLord

RikudouGoku said:


> Check my review.


After seeing your review on that the Chaconne, I think I'll go for the Yincrows and skip out on the M2s, and then get the Chaconne when I'm more flush.


----------



## RikudouGoku

BlacLord said:


> After seeing your review on that the Chaconne, I think I'll go for the Yincrows and skip out on the M2s, and then get the Chaconne when I'm more flush.


That sounds like a good plan. It's less redundancy with that setup.


----------



## jogawag

chaiyuta said:


> @jogawag : Is your Onmyoji 2020 version or 2021 version? I remember that Onmyoji has 2 kinds version..


The photo is of Onmyoji 2021 and the review must be of Onmyoji 2020.


----------



## axhng

Arrived yesterday. Working well so far.   Haven't spend too much time comparing them though, but the nylon braided cable is soft and pliable, and the shells are way lighter that I thought they would be. They feel almost weightless in my ear. Sound wise, need to spend more time with them, but I think they have a relatively neutral tuning with a hint of brightness? Haven't tried TOTL earbuds (or even that many earbuds), but amongst all the buds i've tried, these probably have the best detail retrieval and clarity. Might not suit those looking for that warmer and more analogue sounding earbuds sound though. These are just my initial impressions though, need to spend more time with them for sure, but so far I don't feel like I've wasted money at least.


----------



## chaiyuta

@jogawag : Thanks. Look forward to reading the newer Bell Ti Plus review.


----------



## RikudouGoku

axhng said:


> Arrived yesterday. Working well so far.   Haven't spend too much time comparing them though, but the nylon braided cable is soft and pliable, and the shells are way lighter that I thought they would be. They feel almost weightless in my ear. Sound wise, need to spend more time with them, but I think they have a relatively neutral tuning with a hint of brightness? Haven't tried TOTL earbuds (or even that many earbuds), but amongst all the buds i've tried, these probably have the best detail retrieval and clarity. Might not suit those looking for that warmer and more analogue sounding earbuds sound though. These are just my initial impressions though, need to spend more time with them for sure, but so far I don't feel like I've wasted money at least.


Bright neutral? Then that's definitely different from the lbb. 

(did you use full foams?)


----------



## axhng

RikudouGoku said:


> Bright neutral? Then that's definitely different from the lbb.
> 
> (did you use full foams?)


I'm using the included white coloured full foams, but they do seem pretty thin though. They sound a tad brighter compared to the Nicehck ME80 at least based on a quick comparison, though probably still more neutral than bright I think.


----------



## jogawag (Jul 1, 2021)

axhng said:


> I'm using the included white coloured full foams, but they do seem pretty thin though. They sound a tad brighter compared to the Nicehck ME80 at least based on a quick comparison, though probably still more neutral than bright I think.


You can put donut foam on your white full foam in order to increase bass and sub-bass.
I call this formations of foam "Double foam".


----------



## axhng

jogawag said:


> You can put donut foam on your white full foam in order to increase bass and sub-bass.
> I call this formation of foam "Double foam".


I might try that eventually and experiment more with foams later but i'm quite fine with the amount of bass even with one full foams.  

As usual, earbuds are so enjoyable for me with these live performance.


----------



## DBaldock9

fonkepala said:


> Then I suggest you check out the 120 ohm version of the Lite. It's like a whole different beast.  @DBaldock9 would agree, I think.



I like the Midrange & Treble of my 120-Ω VE Monk Lite (Silver/White) w/3.5mm TRS SPC cable, but do think I prefer the fuller sound (more Bass) of the 150-Ω VE Zen Lite L Standard w/2.5mm TRRS.  Both sets are the same smaller "PK" style of earbuds.


----------



## jogawag

DBaldock9 said:


> I like the Midrange & Treble of my 120-Ω VE Monk Lite (Silver/White) w/3.5mm TRS SPC cable, but do think I prefer the fuller sound (more Bass) of the 150-Ω VE Zen Lite L Standard w/2.5mm TRRS.  Both sets are the same smaller "PK" style of earbuds.


By smaller "PK" style, you mean Qian39 style, right?


----------



## DBaldock9

jogawag said:


> By smaller "PK" style, you mean Qian39 style, right?



Yep - the smaller, slimmer, shallower style of earbud shells.


----------



## MelodyMood

Just received KBear Stellar Earbuds. Initial expression is not that good. Little Bit Thin Sounding and I guess the Driver is not 15.4mm also . I Put Two Foam so slightly better but not that something I really like. Build Quality is decent. But lacks Airyness and Bass and Warmth. Including delivery, I guess it is expensive at $15 AUD.


----------



## n00b (Jul 1, 2021)

Alright folks, I throw in the towel with the FiiO EM5. I'm going to return them. I don't even want to continue burning them in when I could be spending that listening time on buds I actually enjoy and do my library more justice. Even with EQ and foam rolling and such, I can't get over the claustrophobic, compressed, muffled feeling. Even though it can present some genres and instruments well (jazz and not-electronic produced hiphop, for example) really well, it doesn't fit with the rest of my library. On most songs I'm finding even the NiceHCK ME80 is beating it out in overall enjoyment. I think it's because the sound signature feels unnatural above the lows. It just doesn't sound right. I know it's very well regarded with some bud enthusiasts so if you can, I'd buy it from Amazon to audition first before committing. If you like the sound it should only get better with burn ini so that would be when you'd commit to keep. But if you can't get into the tuning I don't think tip rolling, EQ, etc can save it.

As an aside, man, I really wish NiceHCK would do something with the ME80 again. It actually does have the best fit (I redact my statement about the EM5 having the best fit, it's just light weight and the cable is better) and sounds like 80% of the way there to the EBX21 in technicalities maybe but the extra presence in the low end really helps balance everything out and makes for a more enjoyable experience. The EBX21 is like 80% of the way there to the Chaconne in the upper region but the rest of the 20% is worth it on the Chaconne IMO, I can see why Rikudou rates it S+, even though the tuning is not really my preference (I like almost V-shape or sub-bass boosted harman neutral, definitely not a treble head).

Of my current buds I think I'm at:

Moondrop Chaconne >> NiceHCK ME80 = NiceHCK EBX21 >> FiiO EM5

If I had to keep 2, it would be the Chaconne (vocals/ballads/balanced) and ME80 (everything else/3.5mm single ended devices). If I had to keep one, it would be the ME80 (which I had BEFORE i entered this thread. hundreds of dollars earlier).


----------



## Chessnaudio

jogawag said:


> I like the earbuds of Onmyoji for DAP and LBBS for mobile phone so much that I have used only them in the last two weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Only have the LBBS. But that describes it very well. Especially the fit. It just kinda floats there.


----------



## Chessnaudio

RikudouGoku said:


> I believe he just translated someone else´ review though.


Danno here. Finally made it here from Hifiguides. Much more exciting and lively


----------



## sfrsfr (Jul 2, 2021)

n00b said:


> Alright folks, I throw in the towel with the FiiO EM5. I'm going to return them. I don't even want to continue burning them in when I could be spending that listening time on buds I actually enjoy and do my library more justice. Even with EQ and foam rolling and such, I can't get over the claustrophobic, compressed, muffled feeling. Even though it can present some genres and instruments well (jazz and not-electronic produced hiphop, for example) really well, it doesn't fit with the rest of my library. On most songs I'm finding even the NiceHCK ME80 is beating it out in overall enjoyment. I think it's because the sound signature feels unnatural above the lows. It just doesn't sound right. I know it's very well regarded with some bud enthusiasts so if you can, I'd buy it from Amazon to audition first before committing. If you like the sound it should only get better with burn ini so that would be when you'd commit to keep. But if you can't get into the tuning I don't think tip rolling, EQ, etc can save it.
> 
> As an aside, man, I really wish NiceHCK would do something with the ME80 again. It actually does have the best fit (I redact my statement about the EM5 having the best fit, it's just light weight and the cable is better) and sounds like 80% of the way there to the EBX21 in technicalities maybe but the extra presence in the low end really helps balance everything out and makes for a more enjoyable experience. The EBX21 is like 80% of the way there to the Chaconne in the upper region but the rest of the 20% is worth it on the Chaconne IMO, I can see why Rikudou rates it S+, even though the tuning is not really my preference (I like almost V-shape or sub-bass boosted harman neutral, definitely not a treble head).
> 
> ...


I wish I could get/try the famed NiceHCK ME80 as well as the Datura Pro (eq'd) ...


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Chessnaudio said:


> Danno here. Finally made it here from Hifiguides. Much more exciting and lively


Welcome to the fold Danno! Here you be forewarned that "this be a very deep rabbit hole!" *Please click **HERE*


----------



## Vannak

axhng said:


> I might try that eventually and experiment more with foams later but i'm quite fine with the amount of bass even with one full foams.
> 
> As usual, earbuds are so enjoyable for me with these live performance.



Thanks for sharing 🙏


----------



## baskingshark

Ok I have joined the @RikudouGoku Yincrow X6 cult. The hype is real guys.

Bought a 2nd hand unit today, everything King @RikudouGoku says is legit. This set really really reminds me of the BLON BL-03 of the earbuds world - excellent tonality and timbre, but maybe not the best technicalities and with a bit of a midbass bleed. During some complex instrumentation or fast phases in music, the driver does struggle a bit to keep up, kinda like the BLON BL-03, but the tuning otherwise makes up for it.

In a nutshell, the X6 is a warm bassy set, but the bass is rather textured actually, is extends quite well and is quite delicious sounding. Not the one note boomy bass that is common in budget earbuds. As discussed, there's a bit of a midbass bleed, but this adds to the lower mids warmth. Upper mids and treble are smooth and non fatiguing, not shouty or banshee like unlike some other classic CHIFI tuning. But in view of the smoother tuning, there's some loss of microdetails as a tradeoff, though this bud can be used for hours without fatigue.

I didn't really like the cable though, in addition to being fixed, it is rather tangly and slightly microphonic, but something's gotta give for the price of $12 USD.

Recommended for those that want a bassy smooth and warm set for musical enjoyment. If there is a earbud that has a similar tonality and timbre, but with superior technicalities, I think it will sell like hotcakes.


----------



## ian91

On the back of BL-03 comparisons - immediate purchase for me.  Cheers!


----------



## furyossa (Jul 2, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Ok I have joined the @RikudouGoku Yincrow X6 cult. The hype is real guys.
> 
> Bought a 2nd hand unit today, everything King @RikudouGoku says is legit. This set really really reminds me of the BLON BL-03 of the earbuds world - excellent tonality and timbre, but maybe not the best technicalities and with a bit of a midbass bleed. During some complex instrumentation or fast phases in music, the driver does struggle a bit to keep up, kinda like the BLON BL-03, but the tuning otherwise makes up for it.
> 
> ...


So you did manage to get them in the end.  Congrats!
That cable need to go, I can feel that SQ can be improved on this pair just using simple silver plated cable.
Now this is the gamble, and you have to choose whether it is worth the risk: for 10% of improvement with 50-50
chance of breaking the driver (if the glue is involved).


----------



## ian91

That cable colour is, well...hideous. I got the black one - there's no urban legend around colours of wire and different tuning is there?


----------



## Wolftskyi

Hello. I mostly listen audiobooks, but also like listening music. I am gonna use it with my smartphone. I prefer neutral sound signature. Could you advise me something suitable? My budget until $200. Don't wanna use my AliExpress earbuds for $2 anymore. About music genres, I can listen any, but usually prefer epic music, OST or something like that.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Wolftskyi said:


> Hello. I mostly listen audiobooks, but also like listening music. I am gonna use it with my smartphone. I prefer neutral sound signature. Could you advise me something suitable? My budget until $200. Don't wanna use my AliExpress earbuds for $2 anymore. About music genres, I can listen any, but usually prefer epic music, OST or something like that.


Welcome to the fold Wolftskyi! Here you be forewarned that "this be a very deep rabbit hole!" *Please click **HERE*


----------



## Wolftskyi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Welcome to the fold Wolftskyi! Here you be forewarned that "this be a very deep rabbit hole!" *Please click **HERE*


Did I break the rules?


----------



## ian91

Wolftskyi said:


> Did I break the rules?



Nope! @WoodyLuvr is just giving you a warm welcome and pointing to sources of information so you get the most of this community!


----------



## Wolftskyi

ian91 said:


> Nope! @WoodyLuvr is just giving you a warm welcome and pointing to sources of information so you get the most of this community!


Ok, sorry for that. I am a new person here, and don't wanna break any rules


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Wolftskyi said:


> Did I break the rules?


Nope, just a friendly reply welcoming you and offering some helpful links related to all things "earbuds". There are also some helpful tips to better understand why you may not receive a reply.


----------



## Wolftskyi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Nope, just a friendly reply welcoming you and offering some helpful links related to all things "earbuds". There are also some helpful tips to better understand why you may not receive a reply.


Ok, I have read all of there


----------



## ian91 (Jul 2, 2021)

Wolftskyi said:


> Hello. I mostly listen audiobooks, but also like listening music. I am gonna use it with my smartphone. I prefer neutral sound signature. Could you advise me something suitable? My budget until $200. Don't wanna use my AliExpress earbuds for $2 anymore. About music genres, I can listen any, but usually prefer epic music, OST or something like that.



I would love to offer some help here, but I'm very new to the world of buds so have very little point of reference to recommend.

So you value:
Neutral tonal balance
Maybe with a leaning towards forward mids for audiobooks
With a reasonably wide stage for 'epic music'.

Can anyone help?


----------



## jogawag

furyossa said:


> So you did manage to get them in the end.  Congrats!
> That cable need to go, I can feel that SQ can be improved on this pair just using simple silver plated cable.
> Now this is the gamble, and you have to choose whether it is worth the risk: for 10% of improvement with 50-50
> chance of breaking the driver (if the glue is involved).


I'm using the MMCX version of the X6 connected to an OFC cable. (Of course I have the original X6 too.)
When I tried to replace the OFC cable with a silver-plated cable, the treble came to the fore, the bass was less powerful, and the overall sound had a higher center of gravity, which I did not like.


----------



## furyossa

Wolftskyi said:


> Ok, sorry for that. I am a new person here, and don't wanna break any rules


These are *The 10 Commandments of Earbuds Roundup thread* by Mr @WoodyLuvr, so read them carefully


----------



## ian91

That's cool, an MMCX version - I didn't know that existed.


----------



## furyossa

ian91 said:


> I would love to offer some help here, but I'm very new to the world of buds so have very little point of reference to recommend.
> 
> So you value:
> Neutral tonal balance
> ...


https://penonaudio.com/shoonth-esep-01bl.html?search=shoonth


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> I'm using the MMCX version of the X6 connected to an OFC cable. (Of course I have the original X6 too.)
> When I tried to replace the OFC cable with a silver-plated cable, the treble came to the fore, the bass was less powerful, and the overall sound had a higher center of gravity, which I did not like.


You have closed bass port with mmcx, what do you expect


----------



## furyossa

ian91 said:


> That cable colour is, well...hideous. I got the black one - there's no urban legend around colours of wire and different tuning is there?


Don't believe in fairy tales. The color of the cable and the color of the shell have nothing to do with the sound here. *X6 is X6*. Period.


----------



## jogawag

ian91 said:


> That's cool, an MMCX version - I didn't know that existed.


Sorry for not explaining that X6 MMCX version is made by my DIY...


----------



## jogawag

furyossa said:


> You have closed bass port with mmcx, what do you expect


What? I have closed bass port with MMCX?
MX500 type shell has Independent bass port, doesn't it?


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> What? I have closed bass port with MMCX?
> MX500 type shell has Independent bass port, doesn't it?


What you think is a bass port ...well it's not. See this post


----------



## 40760

Is anyone able to compare the Shoonth and X6?


----------



## jao29

baskingshark said:


> Ok I have joined the @RikudouGoku Yincrow X6 cult. The hype is real guys.
> 
> Bought a 2nd hand unit today, everything King @RikudouGoku says is legit. This set really really reminds me of the BLON BL-03 of the earbuds world - excellent tonality and timbre, but maybe not the best technicalities and with a bit of a midbass bleed. During some complex instrumentation or fast phases in music, the driver does struggle a bit to keep up, kinda like the BLON BL-03, but the tuning otherwise makes up for it.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the X6 fan club! 😀


----------



## furyossa

palestofwhite said:


> Is anyone able to compare the Shoonth and X6?


ShoonTH is more mid-centric jet balanced sounding buds and X6 is more bass-centric


----------



## jogawag

furyossa said:


> What you think is a bass port ...well it's not. See this post


So what looks like a bass port on the MX500 is a "fake" sealed bass port!
So the MMCX versions of the Willsound and RY4S had the holes connected...


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> So what looks like a bass port on the MX500 is a "fake" sealed bass port!
> So the MMCX versions of the Willsound and RY4S had the holes connected...


Probably. Push the needle through the hole and check that they may not have opened the port, but I doubt it


----------



## jogawag

furyossa said:


> ShoonTH is more mid-centric jet balanced sounding buds and X6 is more bass-centric


But I prefer the wide soundstage and punchy bass of the ShoonTH to the bass of the X6.


----------



## baskingshark

Wolftskyi said:


> Ok, I have read all of there



Just my 2 cents here. Earbuds come in a variety of shapes and sizes, and fit is a big issue. Bad fit = loss of bass and poor sound quality. Doesn't matter how well a earbud is praised, if it can't fit you, or you get discomfort, then it a moot point.

So the first step is probably to get some cheap sub $10 earbuds of various sizes: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3418#post-16078122
This post done is mostly compiled by guru @furyossa and @WoodyLuvr (credit to them). See what fit suits you, we all have different ear anatomies. Once you like a certain shape, maybe then considering upgrading from there, rather than jumping into $200 territory straight away and realize it can't fit. BTW $200 for earbuds is considered top of the line (TOTL). In contrast $200 for IEMs and headphones is probably just upper budget/lower midfi.

But anyways, for epic music and OST, I personally like the Yincrow RW-2000 for that. It is a warm neutral set with good timbre, tonality and technicalities. Just that it is a bit expensive for a first earbud, so perhaps something cheaper would be something like the NiceHCK ME80 (if it is still available) or Tingo TC200.


----------



## furyossa (Jul 2, 2021)

jogawag said:


> But I prefer the wide soundstage and punchy bass of the ShoonTH to the bass of the X6.


We are on the same page 
BTW after modding bass is not that punchy (still fast) and stage gets a little depth which I prefer more


----------



## furyossa

furyossa said:


> Probably. Push the needle through the hole and check that they may not have opened the port, but I doubt it


This "fake" vent is a bit mysterious, it's not a solution just to open it and call it a day. 
It offers a lot of tuning possibilities, but it takes a lot of experimentation.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 2, 2021)

Chessnaudio said:


> Danno here. Finally made it here from Hifiguides. Much more exciting and lively





Wolftskyi said:


> Hello. I mostly listen audiobooks, but also like listening music. I am gonna use it with my smartphone. I prefer neutral sound signature. Could you advise me something suitable? My budget until


Again, welcome!
I just added a short section to the *ƎAЯBUD LINKS post* that might prove helpful to those new to earbuds and would like a recommendation


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Again, welcome!
> I just added a short section to the *ƎAЯBUD LINKS post* that might prove helpful to those new to earbuds and would like a recommendation
> 
> ​


It's starting to get more and more professional.


----------



## Ronion

palestofwhite said:


> Is anyone able to compare the Shoonth and X6?


“Han will get the shield down.  We’ve got to give him more time!”

Oh sorry, that means in a week or so I will.   There’s no question that the X6 is worth it though.  I just wrote a lo-fi hip hop beat with it tonight and used it for learning pieces with my digital piano.  It works surprisingly well in these situation!   I’d still prefer my HD650, but in truth these are good enough to get the job done in an ultra portable situation.  It has me in the best of moods.  I would have never thought I’d even attempt to use an earbud in a music production situation.


----------



## FranQL

jao29 said:


> Welcome to the X6 fan club! 😀



In the end, it will be necessary to make t-shirts ...


----------



## furyossa (Jul 2, 2021)

FranQL said:


> In the end, it will be necessary to make t-shirts ...


If we are talking about the club, then it is better to buy jerseys. I hope the coach @RikudouGoku  will be responsible for that


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> If we are talking about the club, then it is better to do jerseys. I hope the coach @RikudouGoku  will be responsible for that


x6 + T-shirt $ 20

it can be a promotion with a profit of millions of euros


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> If we are talking about the club, then it is better to buy jerseys. I hope the coach @RikudouGoku  will be responsible for that


I prefer to spend that money on the X6 itself, one of each color.   

Wonder if the RW-100 is anywhere near the X6....


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> I prefer to spend that money on the X6 itself, one of each color.
> 
> Wonder if the RW-100 is anywhere near the X6....


I doubt it. Red is red. Period  Color of the blood🩸


----------



## Chessnaudio

WoodyLuvr said:


> Welcome to the fold Danno! Here you be forewarned that "this be a very deep rabbit hole!" *Please click **HERE*


Thank you. Extremely informative. I've been following here for a bit before I joined. I've actively joined because it is such a nice friendly thread. And as I'm sure many have pointed out the price to performance is the best bang for the buck in the audiophile world. I've been enjoying discovering earbuds again. May the journey be long and pleasant! (RIP wallet 😵😜)


----------



## FranQL

FranQL said:


> x6 + T-shirt $ 20
> 
> it can be a promotion with a profit of millions of euros


----------



## furyossa

Chessnaudio said:


> Thank you. Extremely informative. I've been following here for a bit before I joined. I've actively joined because it is such a nice friendly thread. And as I'm sure many have pointed out the price to performance is the best bang for the buck in the audiophile world. I've been enjoying discovering earbuds again. May the journey be long and pleasant! (RIP wallet 😵😜)


I don't see any reason why someone wouldn't be here. This is the paradise for earbud enthusiasts


----------



## furyossa (Jul 2, 2021)

FranQL said:


>


I see your effort here. Sorry, talent    Cordell Walker - Texas Ranger


----------



## povidlo

Haha, speaking of movies... I watched The Lobster last night. Mixed feelings on this thought-provoking movie, however my IMDB rating on it jumped two points as soon as the scene with Colin Farrell and Rachel Weisz using earbuds came on! 

What earbuds do you guys think they're using (considering 2015 release date)? Maybe Edifier H180 or Beyerdynamic DP100? 

Best screenshot I could find online:


----------



## furyossa (Jul 2, 2021)

povidlo said:


> Haha, speaking of movies... I watched The Lobster last night. Mixed feelings on this thought-provoking movie, however my IMDB rating on it jumped two points as soon as the scene with Colin Farrell and Rachel Weisz using earbuds came on!
> 
> What earbuds do you guys think they're using (considering 2015 release date)? Maybe Edifier H180 or Beyerdynamic DP100?
> 
> Best screenshot I could find online:



Colin Farrell just sent it to me this link 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000562325201.html

I don't have a phone number from Rachel Weisz to ask her for confirmation. Sorry!


----------



## povidlo

furyossa said:


> Colin Farrell just send me this link
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000562325201.html
> 
> I don't have a phone number from Rachel Weisz to ask for confirmation. Sorry!


If she knew your passion for earbuds, there's no question you'd get it   

OK cool, moved SHE3800 from wishlist to cart - need to own a piece of movie earbuds history. I'll re-watch The Lobster with SHE3800 on. 

Today I'm obsessed with discovering more movies with earbuds in them! If anyone knows, please share.


----------



## furyossa (Jul 2, 2021)

povidlo said:


> *If she knew your passion for earbuds, there's no question you'd get it *
> 
> OK cool, moved SHE3800 from wishlist to cart - need to own a piece of movie earbuds history. I'll re-watch The Lobster with SHE3800 on.
> 
> Today I'm obsessed with discovering more movies with earbuds in them! If anyone knows, please share.


I'm free for any suggestion or favor when it comes to Rachel Weisz

If you like SF then Oblivion and Tron. requirement: *X6*  or ST-10s
Interstellar , hmmm...Chaconne , also for The Beach and probably for everithing else


----------



## fonkepala

Ok, after much debating I went ahead and did it. Ordered a pair of Blur earbuds from Wong. This will be my TOTL bud, at least for a while. Hope it doesn't disappoint and Wong is able to work his magic for mine.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

furyossa said:


> I'm free for any suggestion or favor when it comes to Rachel Weisz


Be very careful... too late!


----------



## furyossa (Jul 2, 2021)

Be very careful... too late!

Are we going to argue about this?
I have already visited Burma in Part 4


----------



## Wolftskyi

ian91 said:


> I would love to offer some help here, but I'm very new to the world of buds so have very little point of reference to recommend.
> 
> So you value:
> Neutral tonal balance
> ...


Great, you got it, thanks. I have found that Fiio Em5 is a great choice, just they are expensive a little bit


----------



## waynes world

fonkepala said:


> Then I suggest you check out the 120 ohm version of the Lite. It's like a whole different beast.  @DBaldock9 would agree, I think.



True dat! Sound kinda "veiled" when switching from the Smabat ST10s, but once the ears adjust, they sound great. Very "analog" sounding. Need lots of juice. And a bit of bass boost doesn't hurt (but not required). Also, the shells are very comfortable.


----------



## fonkepala

waynes world said:


> True dat! Sound kinda "veiled" when switching from the Smabat ST10s, but once the ears adjust, they sound great. Very "analog" sounding. Need lots of juice. And a bit of bass boost doesn't hurt (but not required). Also, the shells are very comfortable.


Yes, the shells are *very* comfortable, probably my next-favourite after PK shells. You are right about them sounding analog-ish. Btw, did you manage to get the Qudelix?


----------



## waynes world (Jul 2, 2021)

fonkepala said:


> Yes, the shells are *very* comfortable, probably my next-favourite after PK shells. You are right about them sounding analog-ish.



Listening to them, it brings back a memory of when I was a teenager (a _couple_ of years ago lol), listening to music from my older brother's albums through my stereo system and being rather blown away: Dark Side of the Moon, In-a-gadda-da-vida, Magic Carpet Ride etc.

Not a bad memory that the 120's have elicited!



Spoiler: Yeah baby...












> Btw, did you manage to get the Qudelix?



Not yet, but working on it!


----------



## n00b

just dug up some NiceHCK EB2s and thought they looked familiar. Are these the same shells as K's Bell series? If so I'll hang onto them and see how I get on with the fit despite the lackluster sound lol


----------



## furyossa (Jul 2, 2021)

n00b said:


> just dug up some NiceHCK EB2s and thought they looked familiar. Are these the same shells as K's Bell series? If so I'll hang onto them and see how I get on with the fit despite the lackluster sound lol


It's not the same shell, but it's very similar


----------



## jeejack (Jul 3, 2021)

I never go out without them 😉. UAPP + BTR5 + X6
You ?


----------



## furyossa

JieTu Audio Store now sale ShoonTH ESEP-01BL. This is a great store for DIY parts and don't think that this mode is fake.


----------



## nymz

furyossa said:


> JieTu Audio Store now sale ShoonTH ESEP-01BL. This is a great store for DIY parts and don't think that this mode is fake.



Do you rec them?


----------



## dimitex

I'm considering a Astrotec Lyra Mini, has anyone listened to it?


----------



## furyossa (Jul 3, 2021)

nymz said:


> Do you rec them?


Yes, and probably who have this pair will say the same.
This is my opinion of them, but I not suggest doing things that I do
Now what can you expect from this. Well ... if you think that MX500 have good fit and comfort, this pair is level above.
Because they provide better seal and because specific way of tuning, you will notice less environmental noise when you listen the music.
If you have a habit of listening to music for a long period of time, this pair will not disappoint you, for sure.
In one sentence: fast bass, neutral mids and highs, and the main attraction here is wide soundstage and precise imaging.

BTW... ShoonTH has 2 more models with better cable and tuning and higher impedance (150ohm)


----------



## jogawag (Jul 3, 2021)

furyossa said:


> JieTu Audio Store now sale ShoonTH ESEP-01BL. This is a great store for DIY parts and don't think that this mode is fake.


You have given us a very good page.
This page contains the FR graph of ShoonTH ESEP-01BL.

So the two earbuds compared in that FR graph are probably the sony MDR-E888(???) and the Sennheiser MX985(???).  I'm not sure.

However, I think it turns out that the ShoonTH has the best mid-bass and well-balanced treble of the three.


----------



## nymz

furyossa said:


> Yes, and probably who have this pair will say the same.
> This is my opinion of them, but I not suggest doing things that I do
> Now what can you expect from this. Well ... if you think that MX500 have good fit and comfort, this pair is level above.
> Because they provide better seal and because specific way of tuning, you will notice less environmental noise when you listen the music.
> ...



Thanks for your kind words. I'm still in the process of trying things, since i just got into buds. I want to try the most I can so I see what I like. 
Do you think they are worth even without the mod? Not really into dyi stuff yet..


----------



## furyossa

nymz said:


> Thanks for your kind words. I'm still in the process of trying things, since i just got into buds. I want to try the most I can so I see what I like.
> Do you think they are worth even without the mod? Not really into dyi stuff yet..


The first sentence, in my previous post, tells you everything and when I said yes, it referred to the stock version.
I never tell you that you need to mod the buds


----------



## nymz

furyossa said:


> The first sentence, in my previous post, tells you everything and when I said yes, it referred to the stock version.
> I never tell you that you need to mod the buds



Thanks! Added to cart... Who needs to eat, right?


----------



## furyossa

nymz said:


> Thanks! Added to cart... Who needs to eat, right?


You will be "fed up" with this model, don't worry


----------



## Wolftskyi

furyossa said:


> Yes, and probably who have this pair will say the same.
> This is my opinion of them, but I not suggest doing things that I do
> Now what can you expect from this. Well ... if you think that MX500 have good fit and comfort, this pair is level above.
> Because they provide better seal and because specific way of tuning, you will notice less environmental noise when you listen the music.
> ...


Are they better than my https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4001314079715.html?spm=a2g0n.orderlist-amp.item.4001314079715 ?


----------



## sfrsfr

furyossa said:


> Yes, and probably who have this pair will say the same.
> This is my opinion of them, but I not suggest doing things that I do
> Now what can you expect from this. Well ... if you think that MX500 have good fit and comfort, this pair is level above.
> Because they provide better seal and because specific way of tuning, you will notice less environmental noise when you listen the music.
> ...


Could you compare them with your DIY 130Ω Beryllium buds?
I believe this one from TMusic uses the same driver... www.aliexpress.com/item/32518544153.html
Anyone here tried them?


----------



## Ronion

Ronion said:


> “Han will get the shield down.  We’ve got to give him more time!”
> 
> Oh sorry, that means in a week or so I will.   There’s no question that the X6 is worth it though.  I just wrote a lo-fi hip hop beat with it tonight and used it for learning pieces with my digital piano.  It works surprisingly well in these situation!   I’d still prefer my HD650, but in truth these are good enough to get the job done in an ultra portable situation.  It has me in the best of moods.  I would have never thought I’d even attempt to use an earbud in a music production situation.





palestofwhite said:


> Is anyone able to compare the Shoonth and X6?


So the Shoonth arrived!  My initial impression would be to go for the X6, but it kind of depends on what you are looking for.


----------



## jogawag

Ronion said:


> So the Shoonth arrived!  My initial impression would be to go for the X6, but it kind of depends on what you are looking for.


Do 100 hours of burn-in first.
If that doesn't work, you may find my recommendation of "Double foam" to be helpful.


----------



## Ronion

I will say this: The ShoonTH remind me of my Cat Ear Mimi in a way: they sense of space is HUGE(which I love), the comfort is ideal(also Love), but so far the bass is too light and the vocals a bit too distant.  They're new though and need time.  The Cat Ear cable is even worse as far as stiffness is concerned.  I know a lot of people complain about the X6 cable, but I personally really like it.  I mean I have IEM cables that are far more expensive than the X6 and they are better feeling, but cost to performance it's really hard to complain.  REALLY hard to complain.


----------



## furyossa (Jul 4, 2021)

Wolftskyi said:


> Are they better than my https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4001314079715.html?spm=a2g0n.orderlist-amp.item.4001314079715 ?





sfrsfr said:


> Could you compare them with your DIY 130Ω Beryllium buds?
> I believe this one from TMusic uses the same driver... www.aliexpress.com/item/32518544153.html
> Anyone here tried them?





Ronion said:


> So the Shoonth arrived!  My initial impression would be to go for the X6, but it kind of *depends on what you are looking for*.


DIY 130Ω Beryllium it's much closer to X6 then ShoonTH. Also, ShoonTH is refined and more balanced between different frequencies.
People complain about DIY 130Ω Beryllium and I don't blame them because this driver requires tuning, like all DIY drivers, and not just packing in into the shell which is obvious case with all pre-assembled models on Ali. I won't even comment on the price of these models


----------



## furyossa

Ronion said:


> I will say this: The ShoonTH remind me of my Cat Ear Mimi in a way: they sense of space is HUGE(which I love), the comfort is ideal(also Love), but so far the bass is too light and the vocals a bit too distant.  They're new though and need time.  The Cat Ear cable is even worse as far as stiffness is concerned.  I know a lot of people complain about the X6 cable, but I personally really like it.  I mean I have IEM cables that are far more expensive than the X6 and they are better feeling, but cost to performance it's really hard to complain.  REALLY hard to complain.


ShoonTH has fast bass response and because of that the mids are cleaner and not distant at all


----------



## sfrsfr (Jul 4, 2021)

I am now researching all the cheaper buds using drivers with resistance around 150Ω.
What is currently still worth getting? I have only Rosemary and Zen LL with 150Ω drivers. They both are really enjoyable.
I see the seahf awk-f150c with a 150Ω driver is still available and have quite positive feedback here from around 2017-2018....


----------



## furyossa

sfrsfr said:


> I am now researching all the cheaper buds with drivers with resistance around 130 - 150Ω.
> What is currently still worth getting? I have only Rosemary and Zen LL with 150Ω drivers. They both are really enjoyable.
> *I see the seahf awk-f150c, 150Ω driver, is still available and have quite positive feedback here from around 2017....*


Where did you find seahf awk-f150c? Production has been discontinued for a long time


----------



## RikudouGoku

Looks somewhat similar doesnt it?


----------



## RikudouGoku




----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Looks somewhat similar doesnt it?


Do you think that Astrotec stole design idea from JCALLY?


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Do you think that Astrotec stole design idea from JCALLY?


I think Astrotec is older though, with their Lyra Nature. So it would be the other way.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> I think Astrotec is older though, with their Lyra Nature. So it would be the other way.


Right answer but despite that, hardly anyone can copy Astrotec, maybe the external appearance, but when it comes to the quality of materials and tech, hmm... I will say like this: "many are tried, but died in the process"


----------



## nymz

RikudouGoku said:


>



Did you had a chance to try the plus spc?


----------



## RikudouGoku

nymz said:


> Did you had a chance to try the plus spc?


Not my graph. 

And no, I only had the ordinary smoke version.


----------



## ian91 (Jul 4, 2021)

If you had to, in brief words, how would you describe the Monk Plus. What's its unique selling point do you reckon?


----------



## Kumonomukou

ian91 said:


> If you had, in brief words, how would you describe the Monk Plus. What's its unique selling point do you reckon?



'Forget about technicality, bass is pretty good for earbuds.'


----------



## RikudouGoku

ian91 said:


> If you had, in brief words, how would you describe the Monk Plus. What's its unique selling point do you reckon?


The reason why I dont have it is because it sounded so bad I gave it away to the first person that could use buds lol.

Massively bloated bass and sounding like a radio are the only aspects I remember....probably F ranked.


----------



## ian91

Sounds like an easy pass for now. I'll just wait eagerly for my Chuck Norris Yincrow X6.


----------



## axhng

RikudouGoku said:


> The reason why I dont have it is because it sounded so bad I gave it away to the first person that could use buds lol.
> 
> Massively bloated bass and sounding like a radio are the only aspects I remember....probably F ranked.


Ordered a pair of red and blue monk plus earlier this week since it's one of the more popular/well-known models around. Tingo TC200 too.


----------



## 40760

axhng said:


> Ordered a pair of red and blue monk plus earlier this week since it's one of the more popular/well-known models around. Tingo TC200 too.



One man's meat is another man's poison...


----------



## furyossa

ian91 said:


> Sounds like an easy pass for now. I'll just wait eagerly for my Chuck Norris Yincrow X6.


Go definitely with the secure version. X6 by Chuck


----------



## baskingshark

axhng said:


> Ordered a pair of red and blue monk plus earlier this week since it's one of the more popular/well-known models around. Tingo TC200 too.



Be careful of the Tingo TC200. It was hyped greatly and the original version sold out in most shops. The manufacturers had to make new sets and some folks who have the newer and older versions say the new ones use a different shell, this affects the sound (they find the new one is worse sounding).


----------



## RikudouGoku

axhng said:


> Ordered a pair of red and blue monk plus earlier this week since it's one of the more popular/well-known models around. Tingo TC200 too.


rip, its one of the most overhyped transducers out there....it has the honor of being the only transducer (in my collection over 100 transducers...) I have given away (for free) and if I couldnt find someone, I would have probably thrown it into the trash can where it belongs....


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> Be careful of the Tingo TC200. It was hyped greatly and the original version sold out in most shops. The manufacturers had to make new sets and some folks who have the newer and older versions say the new ones use a different shell, this affects the sound (they find the new one is worse sounding).


Not only that but they came up with TC400 which is even worse, SQ and shell wise


----------



## baskingshark

furyossa said:


> Not only that but they came up with TC400 which is even worse, SQ and shell wise



Haha as per movies, sequels may generally be worse than the original haha.

But in CHIFI land, they just call the sequel a "plus" or "pro" or "S" version.


----------



## ian91

furyossa said:


> Go definitely with the secure version. X6 by Chuck



Is it true that the diaphragm in the X6 is sourced from Chuck's right quadriceps muscle? Hence the excursive force?


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> rip, its one of the most overhyped transducers out there....it has the honor of being the only transducer (in my collection over 100 transducers...) I have given away (for free) and if I couldnt find someone, I would have probably thrown it into the trash can where it belongs....


Throw everything except the shell, and put DIY 130ohm like I did here, and you'll be surprised


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> Haha as per movies, sequels may generally be worse than the original haha.
> 
> But in CHIFI land, they just call the sequel a "plus" or "pro" or "S" version.


Rambo part 4 is better than previous sequels if you ask me


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Throw everything except the shell, and put DIY 130ohm like I did here, and you'll be surprised


Not into DIY and too late anyway...


----------



## furyossa (Jul 4, 2021)

ian91 said:


> Is it true that the diaphragm in the X6 is sourced from Chuck's right quadriceps muscle? Hence the excursive force?


And coated with chest hair ("love carpet"), taken from Bruce Lee hand  

BTW...this is the famous fight between *ShoonTH* aka Bruce Lee and *X6* aka Mr Chuck N.
Now you see how ShoonTH is fast


----------



## axhng (Jul 4, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Be careful of the Tingo TC200. It was hyped greatly and the original version sold out in most shops. The manufacturers had to make new sets and some folks who have the newer and older versions say the new ones use a different shell, this affects the sound (they find the new one is worse sounding).





RikudouGoku said:


> rip, its one of the most overhyped transducers out there....it has the honor of being the only transducer (in my collection over 100 transducers...) I have given away (for free) and if I couldnt find someone, I would have probably thrown it into the trash can where it belongs....


haha. RIP. but well, it's just in the name of "science". Wasn't expecting much out of them anyway. hearing you say this made me remember the one pair of cheap earbuds that I threw into the trash since I feel bad even passing on the "pain" to someone else. that honor goes to the JCALLY EP01. Maybe I got a bad unit of what since they are literally Vido prices on Shopee, but I have bought 3 pairs of vido at different times in different colours and all of them were fine. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## povidlo

sfrsfr said:


> I am now researching all the cheaper buds with drivers with resistance around 130 - 150Ω.
> What is currently still worth getting? I have only Rosemary and Zen LL with 150Ω drivers. They both are really enjoyable.
> I see the seahf awk-f150c with a 150Ω driver is still available and have quite positive feedback here from around 2017-2018....


Received Ksearphone K300 from AE summer sale. Paid about $15 USD. This is my first model from Ksearphone. Also have LBBS on the way from the sale.

I'm also interested in cheap high-impedance buds after hearing what Rosemary is capable of. K300 is rated 300 ohm, but tbh it's not significantly harder to drive than Rosemary since it has a relatively high sensitivity rating as well. 

It's very satisfactory for the price. Build-wise cable is not too stiff, working chin-slider, metal-plated y-splitter, metal-plated connector with small logo, and full logo printed on each earbud. Sound-wise it's mid-centric but bass is not anemic. It has more resolving and cleaner mids than Rosemary with better separation and slighly better positioning. Vocals could have a bit more texture and decay but are very clear. Rosemary is warmer and thicker, it sounds a tad more musical with greater bass punch. They're quite complimentary to each other.


----------



## nymz (Jul 4, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> rip, its one of the most overhyped transducers out there....it has the honor of being the only transducer (in my collection over 100 transducers...) I have given away (for free) and if I couldnt find someone, I would have probably thrown it into the trash can where it belongs....



I got two monks from the sale: the plus smoke and the spc balanced.

I dont like the smoke, sounds bloted.

The SPC one I like as much as my X6 for different reasons. Doesnt have the same bass but does some things well for my ears and a part of my library. Im using donut foam tho.

Guess my ears just suck


----------



## sfrsfr (Jul 4, 2021)

povidlo said:


> Received Ksearphone K300 from AE summer sale. Paid about $15 USD. This is my first model from Ksearphone. Also have LBBS on the way from the sale.
> 
> I'm also interested in cheap high-impedance buds after hearing what Rosemary is capable of. K300 is rated 300 ohm, but tbh it's not significantly harder to drive than Rosemary since it has a relatively high sensitivity rating as well.
> 
> It's very satisfactory for the price. Build-wise cable is not too stiff, working chin-slider, metal-plated y-splitter, metal-plated connector with small logo, and full logo printed on each earbud. Sound-wise it's mid-centric but bass is not anemic. It has more resolving and cleaner mids than Rosemary with better separation and slighly better positioning. Vocals could have a bit more texture and decay but are very clear. Rosemary is warmer and thicker, it sounds a tad more musical with greater bass punch. They're quite complimentary to each other.


If I remember correctly they have the same driver as the *RY4S 300Ω.*
Also your sound description suggests that they are indeed very similar to RY4S 300Ω.

But can they beat the Iris Ancestor?


----------



## povidlo

sfrsfr said:


> If I remember correctly they have the same driver as the *RY4S 300Ω.*
> Also your sound description suggests that they are indeed very similar to RY4S 300Ω.
> 
> But can they beat the Iris Ancestor?


Interesting, I was not aware. I have skipped Ry4s 300 as reviews seemed to indicate Ry4s Plus is significantly better. 

I still consider Ancestor the cheap buds god. Can't get enough of that smooth, bassy warmth  .


----------



## Sam L

waynes world said:


> True dat! Sound kinda "veiled" when switching from the Smabat ST10s, but once the ears adjust, they sound great. Very "analog" sounding. Need lots of juice. And a bit of bass boost doesn't hurt (but not required). Also, the shells are very comfortable.


and they EQ really well.


----------



## sfrsfr (Jul 4, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Where did you find seahf awk-f150c? Production has been discontinued for a long time


Jietu store on Shopee still offers them, for example in Singapore: https://shopee.sg/Seahf-AWK-F150C-Impedance-Earphone-150-ohm-Earbuds-Headset-i.66630848.1401250111
Btw. notice the sensitivity... 85dB/mW. Looks interesting!


----------



## RikudouGoku

povidlo said:


> Received Ksearphone K300 from AE summer sale. Paid about $15 USD. This is my first model from Ksearphone. Also have LBBS on the way from the sale.
> 
> I'm also interested in cheap high-impedance buds after hearing what Rosemary is capable of. K300 is rated 300 ohm, but tbh it's not significantly harder to drive than Rosemary since it has a relatively high sensitivity rating as well.
> 
> It's very satisfactory for the price. Build-wise cable is not too stiff, working chin-slider, metal-plated y-splitter, metal-plated connector with small logo, and full logo printed on each earbud. Sound-wise it's mid-centric but bass is not anemic. It has more resolving and cleaner mids than Rosemary with better separation and slighly better positioning. Vocals could have a bit more texture and decay but are very clear. Rosemary is warmer and thicker, it sounds a tad more musical with greater bass punch. They're quite complimentary to each other.


Sounds like its the opposite of the Samsara K300 then. That one is very warm and very bassy (V-shaped).

Guess the K300 decided to redo its life choices and change its tuning in its second life.


----------



## 40760

RikudouGoku said:


> Sounds like its the opposite of the Samsara K300 then. That one is very warm and very bassy (V-shaped).
> 
> Guess the K300 decided to redo its life choices and change its tuning in its second life.



Have you found any X6 upgrade or something with a better cable yet?


----------



## RikudouGoku

palestofwhite said:


> Have you found any X6 upgrade or something with a better cable yet?


Nope and I have given up on finding one. X6 TOTL by default lol.


----------



## 40760

RikudouGoku said:


> Nope and I have given up on finding one. X6 TOTL by default lol.



Then I guess I will have to order some black ones again... I was hoping for at least better cables...


----------



## furyossa (Jul 4, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Nope and* I have given up on finding one*. X6 TOTL by default lol.


I agree with you. There is really no need for that, why waste time?  There is simply no better model


----------



## FranQL

Legend has it that the Sennheiser HE-1 sounds muddy next to the X6


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> Legend has it that the Sennheiser HE-1 sounds muddy next to the X6


Sennheiser HE-1 is not red. For me, that's a negative point


----------



## Chessnaudio

RikudouGoku said:


> Looks somewhat similar doesnt it?


----------



## Chessnaudio

Is there any difference between the Astrotec Lyra  Nature and Nature Limited?


----------



## digititus

palestofwhite said:


> Have you found any X6 upgrade or something with a better cable yet?


Yes - RW-9 . Maybe a side grade, but definitely a better cable


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 4, 2021)

sfrsfr said:


> Jietu store on Shopee still offers them, for example in Singapore: https://shopee.sg/Seahf-AWK-F150C-Impedance-Earphone-150-ohm-Earbuds-Headset-i.66630848.1401250111
> Btw. notice the sensitivity... *85dB/mW*. Looks interesting!


My eyes   nearly popped out of my head when I read that!

I searched around a bit and do see the very same spec (*85dB/mW @ 150Ω* and *90dB/mW @ 400Ω*) repeated over and over again for the Seahf AWK. Though I did come across a more reasonable spec indicating a modest 103dB/mW sensitivity rating for all four (4) high impedance versions (150Ω/300Ω/400Ω/650Ω) which I am inclined to lean towards as being the correct sensitivity rating. If it is not, that would mean that both the 150Ω and 400Ω versions require twenty (20) or more volts and thousands of mW to reach a SPL of 120dB! Holy cow! Hell, 2V will only reach 100dB SPL! Therefore, I find it extremely hard to believe that these earbud drivers require 1 watt plus to reach 120dB SPL.


----------



## MisterMudd (Jul 4, 2021)

Anyone in the continental United States want an original, new, unused Monk ear bud? Yes - the very first Old Guard Monk. First one to PM me I will ship it out for free. Just trying to pay it forward a little. Inexpensively. Thanks.

Edit: CLAIMED.


----------



## Ronion

furyossa said:


> ShoonTH has fast bass response and because of that the mids are cleaner and not distant at all


It’s interesting that’s how they sounded to me last night, and that character seems totally gone today. In fact I’d say the vocal is right where I want it today.  I fed them music all night.   Have you noticed a greater sense of space from the dp100 shell vs. mx500?  None of my mx500 shell ear buds have the sense of space that both of my dp100 do.  The dp100 also seems to block more outside noise comparatively, but the mx500 generally have more bass.  I wouldn’t say better bass As of Yet, but a bassier balance for lack of a better descriptor.


----------



## furyossa

Ronion said:


> It’s interesting that’s how they sounded to me last night, and that character seems totally gone today. In fact I’d say the vocal is right where I want it today.  *I fed them music all night*.   Have you *noticed a greater sense of space* from the dp100 shell vs. mx500?  None of my mx500 shell ear buds have the sense of space that both of my dp100 do.  The dp100 also seems to block more outside noise comparatively, but the mx500 generally have more bass.  I wouldn’t say better bass As of Yet, but a bassier balance for lack of a better descriptor.


This is pretty much common thing. After a certain "working period", the driver slowly begins to "opens-up" and the brain slowly adapts to the new sound.
That's why I always say: Take your time and give them a chance for a few days to open up. With each bud, as you already know, the sound depends mostly on the driver and then the shell. ShoonTH driver is tuned specially for DP100 shells, and the guys from ShoonTH did a great job. It has, as you stated, the "sense of space" in left and right direction but not the same magnitude in front of you and above. That's why we said that this model have wide soundstage. Shells like DP100 and MX760 are considered to be shells with a shallower cavity depth than the MX500 shell, which is deeper. Shallow shells tend to push the mids a bit forward and sometimes affect the depth of the soundstage. MX500 shell has a little more tuning capability than DP100 (the cavity size is optimal, stem has fake - sealed vent which can be open etc). 
You hear more bass (quantity and quality) because of better fit i.e seal and also because of that and way of ShoonTH tuning, you receive less outside noise.
If they didn't close side vents (one side only) you will receive same amount of noise like with MX500


----------



## baskingshark

furyossa said:


> This is pretty much common thing. After a certain "working period", the driver slowly begins to "opens-up" and the brain slowly adapts to the new sound.
> That's why I always say: Take your time and give them a chance for a few days to open up. With each bud, as you already know, the sound depends mostly on the driver and then the shell. ShoonTH driver is tuned specially for DP100 shells, and the guys from ShoonTH did a great job. It has, as you stated, the "sense of space" in left and right direction but not the same magnitude in front of you and above. That's why we said that this model have wide soundstage. Shells like DP100 and MX760 are considered to be shells with a shallower cavity depth than the MX500 shell, which is deeper. Shallow shells tend to push the mids a bit forward and sometimes affect the depth of the soundstage. MX500 shell has a little more tuning capability than DP100 (the cavity size is optimal, stem has fake - sealed vent which can be open etc).
> You hear more bass (quantity and quality) because of better fit i.e seal and also because of that and way of ShoonTH tuning, you receive less outside noise.
> If they didn't close side vents (one side only) you will receive same amount of noise like with MX500



Great advise.

Anyways, do you guys get the impression that some other psychoacoustic factors affect our perception of music like in soundstage or detail retrieval?

Like these factors:
1) listening in a dark quiet room versus bright busy area - it is not only about isolation and distractions, but music sounds better in the dark??

2) listening lying down instead of sitting upright - imaging seems a bit weird when lying down, as though the brain knows your head ain't on a vertical axis and the stage depth and height is very different from sitting upright.

3) listening when tired at the end of the day versus first thing in the morning when alert.


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> Great advise.
> 
> Anyways, do *you guys* get the impression that some other psychoacoustic factors affect our perception of music like in soundstage or detail retrieval?
> 
> ...


How did you guess? 
By "you guys" you mean earbuds junkies?   
BTW... I like how you describe 1,2,3 factors ... really deep, like soundstage in z-direction (axis)


----------



## Ronion

I know that playing music after a hard shift is next to impossible to get the sound I’m looking for where first thing in the morning after a cup of coffee I can do no wrong.  Listening to music in these situations is less extreme on both sides of the coin and sometimes actually sounds better when I’m exhausted.  Interestingly, if I’m evaluating new gear, I think it’s just a bad idea to do it when I’m tired.  I think they may have played a role in my initial listen to the ShoonTH, BUT just listening to them today on my way out of the building, they sounded so good!  I wasn’t trying to be critical.  The mental discord between what I heard while walking through an acoustic space I’m very familiar with that sounded nothing like the acoustic space presented by Alice Sara Ott’s Chopin Walzes was pure bliss….  I play some of those pieces, but she does it with so much control and finesse, I could just never hope to duplicate it.


----------



## furyossa (Jul 5, 2021)

Ronion said:


> I know that playing music after a hard shift is next to impossible to get the sound I’m looking for where first thing in the morning after a cup of coffee I can do no wrong.  Listening to music in these situations is less extreme on both sides of the coin and sometimes actually sounds better when I’m exhausted.  Interestingly, if I’m evaluating new gear, I think it’s just a bad idea to do it when I’m tired.  I think they may have played a role in my initial listen to the ShoonTH, BUT just listening to them today on my way out of the building, they sounded so good!  I wasn’t trying to be critical.  The mental discord between what I heard while walking through an acoustic space I’m very familiar with that sounded nothing like the acoustic space presented by Alice Sara Ott’s Chopin Walzes was pure bliss….  I play some of those pieces, but she does it with so much control and finesse, I could just never hope to duplicate it.


So do you think that ShoonTH justify asking price?
I wonder what next model (150ohm version) brings to the table


----------



## jao29

RikudouGoku said:


> The reason why I dont have it is because it sounded so bad I gave it away to the first person that could use buds lol.
> 
> Massively bloated bass and sounding like a radio are the only aspects I remember....probably F ranked.


Aww that’s too bad because I like my monk plus. They’re actually my earbuds of choice as of the moment along with the X6 and Snow Lotus 1.0. Haha


----------



## 40760

jao29 said:


> Aww that’s too bad because I like my monk plus. They’re actually my earbuds of choice as of the moment along with the X6 and Snow Lotus 1.0. Haha


Glad you like them as I do…


----------



## nymz

jao29 said:


> Aww that’s too bad because I like my monk plus. They’re actually my earbuds of choice as of the moment along with the X6 and Snow Lotus 1.0. Haha



I like my monk+ as much as my X6. Different tastes for different folks


----------



## Ronion

furyossa said:


> So do you think that ShoonTH justify asking price?
> I wonder what next model (150ohm version) brings to the table


Yes I do!  I fell asleep with them in my ear last night.  
My hopes for the 150 ohm would be for more power handling in the low end.  The cheapies are great for acoustic music (barring pipe organs and oddballs), but they overload easily on more bass intensive recordings.  My initial impression of these was not great, but just a few days later and I’m so happy I got them.  I’m just glad you guys encouraged me to burn them in a bit.  thank you.


----------



## i20bot

Finally got into the bud game.  Always wanted some buds since I don't really like iem's and can't really wear them at work.  Anyways, I bought a pair of FAAEAL Snow Lotus 1.0+ blue version because they were on Amazon so I can get them quick and use them for work, also they're blue and matches my work shirt.  But man, I quite like them.  Surprised how open sounding they are.  Just wide enough for the music to be out of your head.  Good sound stage.  Neutral warmish sounding.  Only thing I find lacking is the bass.  Reminds me of my Sennheiser HD580.

Right now I'm just running them off of my LG V20 phone.  Maybe get a DAP or AMP later.  So which buds to get next?


----------



## Ronion

Yincrow X6 are cheap and have more bass and a nice FR balance but not the most technicality accomplished buds.  The The ShoonTH are a more technical bud that I prefer the fit compared to the mx500 shell on the Faaeal.  They don’t have the bass though, but they do sound smooth even though they are detailed.  Bass is not really their forte if you listen to bass heavy music.  If you like both extra bass and a more technical bud, the Eat Bud Anonymous buds have a lot of bass, detail and a comfy fit But they do have a bit of grain to them.  With the Code the are $25.  Without $50.  I like all three of those buds more than the Faaeal.  I prefer Penon Audio’s shipping by a large margin over AliExpress (which is an ironic name as their shipping can take forever).  I still haven’t received buds that I ordered 2 months ago and they certainly aren’t eager to make things right.  Buy at your own risk.


----------



## jao29

Ronion said:


> Yincrow X6 are cheap and have more bass and a nice FR balance but not the most technicality accomplished buds.  The The ShoonTH are a more technical bud that I prefer the fit compared to the mx500 shell on the Faaeal.  They don’t have the bass though, but they do sound smooth even though they are detailed.  Bass is not really their forte if you listen to bass heavy music.  If you like both extra bass and a more technical bud, the Eat Bud Anonymous buds have a lot of bass, detail and a comfy fit But they do have a bit of grain to them.  With the Code the are $25.  Without $50.  I like all three of those buds more than the Faaeal.  I prefer Penon Audio’s shipping by a large margin over AliExpress (which is an ironic name as their shipping can take forever).  I still haven’t received buds that I ordered 2 months ago and they certainly aren’t eager to make things right.  Buy at your own risk.


How’s the bass of the ShoonTh compared to the monk plus?


----------



## i20bot

Ronion said:


> Yincrow X6 are cheap and have more bass and a nice FR balance but not the most technicality accomplished buds.  The The ShoonTH are a more technical bud that I prefer the fit compared to the mx500 shell on the Faaeal.  They don’t have the bass though, but they do sound smooth even though they are detailed.  Bass is not really their forte if you listen to bass heavy music.  If you like both extra bass and a more technical bud, the Eat Bud Anonymous buds have a lot of bass, detail and a comfy fit But they do have a bit of grain to them.  With the Code the are $25.  Without $50.  I like all three of those buds more than the Faaeal.  I prefer Penon Audio’s shipping by a large margin over AliExpress (which is an ironic name as their shipping can take forever).  I still haven’t received buds that I ordered 2 months ago and they certainly aren’t eager to make things right.  Buy at your own risk.


Thanks, I'll check those out.  Yeah I don't want to buy from AE if I can help it.  I don't really mind them being bass lite or not just as long as it's perceivable.  Might have to try out a pair of ShoonTH's.


----------



## jao29 (Jul 5, 2021)

Just sharing, I have bought the following earbuds: Cat Ear Audio Mimi, Willsound mk2, Metal Yuin Shell Monk, ShoonTh. I can’t stop buying earbuds. 😂 Someone please help.

Also, I compared my X6 to the Campfire Audio Orion Ck just for fun. Man, the X6 can pass off as an iem because of their low frequencies. 😂 While I’m using the Monk Plus more for the past 2 weeks, the X6 continues to surprise me. Haha


----------



## Ronion (Jul 5, 2021)

jao29 said:


> How’s the bass of the ShoonTh compared to the monk plus?


I may be the only person in this thread that hasn’t heard any Monk.  I have a set that hasn’t shipped from AliExpress for 2 months….. I guess it’s only 45 days.


----------



## jrazmar (Jul 6, 2021)

So which is which? 






Someone here says that you get what you paid for. Is it true for this case? I'm curious for anyone who have tried these and how they perform. The rabbit hole is calling me again...


----------



## furyossa (Jul 6, 2021)

Ronion said:


> I may be the only person in this thread that hasn’t heard any Monk.  I have a set that hasn’t shipped from AliExpress for 2 months….. I guess it’s only 45 days.





jrazmar said:


> So which is which?
> 
> 
> 
> Someone here says that you get what you paid for. Is it true for this case? I'm curious for anyone who have tried these and how they perform. The rabbit hole is calling me again...


Before I start, understand this as my personal opinion. I have no intention of hype this product line




*ESEP-01BL* is the good entry level buds which shows its uniqueness and true character of the ShoonTH lineup. IMO, the price is just right. I'm not a fan of the cable, but even if you cut the cable, I will buy it again  By saying this I mean that this driver (32ohm) alone is the strong candidate to be in range $10-$20




Now looking at the* ESEP-01BLE *and reading product description we see some differences, enhanced driver and cables. They tested each driver and resistor to find a pair
with approximately equal impedance. Also, all of this requires additional driver tuning. The next thing that raises the price here is the cable, of course the beautiful look (my subjective opinion) is not the only reason for that. I personally like how they match plug and Y-splitter with "wasp pattern" snake skin.
I use FURUKAWA silver plated copper cable with my DIY PK1 150ohm "red film" driver and I noticed small improvement in driver performance comparing it with other cheap cables. This cable is thin but rigid (can be good or bad thing, I don't mind that much), and it feels strong.
And now the main question: Is all this worth 4 times the price of previous model?
Well... for overall effort: enhanced driver (150ohm), tuning, quality cable wire and parts, attention to the details, richer package with accessories, the price around $100 would be a complete hit, $120 ...hmm...maybe ok 




*ESEP-01BU *... what can incense the price $100? This is a hard one if you ask me, and correct me if I'm wrong.
This is not so important, but I need to mention, the package looks a bit downgraded in comparison with ESEP-01BLE.
As for the driver, I think that they probably chose the best samples of the previous version here with some additional tuning.
Looking at the cable, we see that they use the same plug and Y-splitter, the snake skin has a different pattern.
The main difference is the wire. It's thinner and braided, which may indicate two things: softer cable and no microphonics.
Is asking price ok? I will not agree here. Upper limit will be $200 but $150-$170 is a much more realistic price for this model.

BTW... this lineup is not so new and the TOTL model is not mentioned anywhere in the reviews, which may mean that it was not sold as much.
The only solution I see here is to lower the price and send one pair to @RikudouGoku for testing


----------



## jrazmar

Thanks mr. furyossa for the information. I searched through the net and haven't found also any reviews about these buds so maybe I'll wait until the likes of @RikudouGoku or maybe @ClieOS get their hands on it. Besides, the Blur which I purchased from a fellow headfier is still on its way.


----------



## furyossa

jrazmar said:


> Thanks mr. furyossa for the information. I searched through the net and haven't found also any reviews about these buds so maybe I'll wait until the likes of @RikudouGoku or maybe @ClieOS get their hands on it. Besides, the Blur which I purchased from a fellow headfier is still on its way.


Only TOTL model don't have any review, ESEP-01BL and ESEP-01BLE have. If @ClieOS not have these, probably will not get them, and @RikudouGoku rarely buys from Penon.
That's the way it is for now


----------



## jogawag

In @ClieOS's  last list of Earbuds rankings, one of Shoonth's early flagship models, the "Shoonth ESP-01B", was ranked 31st overall, and he commented that
"Possibility even better bass quality and extension than VE Zen 1.0. Slightly warm, good soundstage, but a little grainy on the top vocal. Very stiff cable and hard to drive.".


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> In @ClieOS's  last list of Earbuds rankings, one of Shoonth's early flagship models, the "Shoonth ESP-01B", was ranked 31st overall, and he commented that
> "Possibility even better bass quality and extension than VE Zen 1.0. Slightly warm, good soundstage, but a little grainy on the top vocal. Very stiff cable and hard to drive.".


That's what I predicted about the cable. FURUKAWA cables are thin and stiff, but not easy to break.
This is still 32ohm driver and adding 120ohm resistor will not change SQ. 
I like a little warmth with a touch of graininess, especially in winter


----------



## axhng

These came in the mail today. Gotta give it to Shopee this time round for their shipping. Ordered on 1st July morning, got them 6th July afternoon. 5 days to ship from China to Singapore with free shipping.






Anyway, not my cup of tea for sure. I'm using full foams btw. Spent a bit of time listening to them, and the tuning.... sounds weird to me. There seems to be a lot of mid bass, to the point where male vocals can sound like they're being drowned out. Bass also doesn't seem to reach super deep, and sounds boomy too? Drum strikes sounds more like dull thuds to me, and when there are a lot of fast drum strikes they just kinda sound smeared together.

Vocals sound a little weird to my ears too. There is a pretty noticeable bump around 2-3 kHz maybe to try and push some of the vocals forward from the mix from the bass? but to me it sounds like some vocals end up being too forward, some end up still being drowned out by the lower frequencies. Then some instruments that are supposed to be in the background feels like they've been pushed more forward in the mix too, and my guess is that they just happen to be in that frequency range where that bump is?. There is a bit of elevation somewhere in the lower treble, and then it's just rolled off after that. Staging and imaging isn't particularly great even for earbuds, detail retrieval is pretty meh, tonality and timbre sounds a bit off to me too. (this bump is also why I don't like them with donut foams too)

Maybe it's just not made for my ears or preference? Maybe the seller (JieTu from shopee) replaced the driver with something worse to increase profit (since the packages for these earbuds are rarely sealed) and it's not direct from VE's site? But I highly doubt so though since most of the things I've bought from them were fine (including the nicehck me80, k's lbbs). Maybe it's a QC issue? (I can be pretty unlucky when it comes to these things.) But either way, this pair of monk plus (standard edition) that I have here is not something I would listen to after this. I probably enjoy the Vido, iris ancestor, nicehck traceless, kbear stellar, k's nameless, more than this. And all of those are cheaper on Shopee. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

OH, and another thing is the colour. To me it's always Red = Right, Blue = Left. But here on the monk plus the blue side is the right channel. Am I the weird one for thinking that Red = Right?

a photo of the inside of the monk plus that I have, so maybe someone can see if it looks roughly the same as theirs or not.


----------



## sfrsfr (Jul 6, 2021)

axhng said:


> These came in the mail today. Gotta give it to Shopee this time round for their shipping. Ordered on 1st July morning, got them 6th July afternoon. 5 days to ship from China to Singapore with free shipping.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Jietu store is surely one of the most trustworthy chinese audio stores out there. I've bought about half of my earbuds and gear from Jietu. The service is always excellent and they promptly answer any of my questions and requests.
The most likely answer is you've got the real Monk+. Deal with it! 

Btw. how do you find the K's LBBS now? Does the sound signature resemble the K64S? And what is actually the difference between K64S and K64?


----------



## chinmie

axhng said:


> Anyway, not my cup of tea for sure. I'm using full foams btw. Spent a bit of time listening to them, and the tuning.... sounds weird to me. There seems to be a lot of mid bass, to the point where male vocals can sound like they're being drowned out. Bass also doesn't seem to reach super deep, and sounds boomy too? Drum strikes sounds more like dull thuds to me, and when there are a lot of fast drum strikes they just kinda sound smeared together.
> 
> Vocals sound a little weird to my ears too. There is a pretty noticeable bump around 2-3 kHz maybe to try and push some of the vocals forward from the mix from the bass? but to me it sounds like some vocals end up being too forward, some end up still being drowned out by the lower frequencies. Then some instruments that are supposed to be in the background feels like they've been pushed more forward in the mix too, and my guess is that they just happen to be in that frequency range where that bump is?. There is a bit of elevation somewhere in the lower treble, and then it's just rolled off after that. Staging and imaging isn't particularly great even for earbuds, detail retrieval is pretty meh, tonality and timbre sounds a bit off to me too. (this bump is also why I don't like them with donut foams too)



that sounds about right for a monk+


----------



## Ronion

My SMABAT M2s Pro will be here soon  I am just about ready to send a bunch of Ear Buds out to whoever wants them.  I need to have several grand listening sessions first.  for the last 3 days it’s been nothing but the ShoonTH, so I’m pretty sure those won’t go anywhere, same goes for the EA Ear Buds and possibly my X6.  It may go, but I really like it for ‘on the go‘ music production.  It has a signature that works well for writing lo-fi beats and even playing VST pianos, but I am going to trial the EA Ear Buds for that too.  Who knows how I’ll like the SMABAT… If anyone come is interested in getting on the list earlier just PM me.


----------



## jogawag

sfrsfr said:


> Jietu store is surely one of the most trustworthy chinese audio stores out there. I've bought about half of my earbuds and gear from Jietu. The service is always excellent and they promptly answer any of my questions or requests.
> The most likely answer is you've got the real Monk+. Deal with it!
> 
> Btw. how do you find the LBBS now? Does the sound signature resemble the K64S? And what is actually the difference between K64S and K64?


I think LBBS has a very high sound quality that is totally incomparable to K64.

Also, I don't know about the K64S because I don't have it and I can't seem to find it on AliExpress. So, why don't you ask your trusted Jietu store?


----------



## nymz

Ronion said:


> My SMABAT M2s Pro will be here soon  I am just about ready to send a bunch of Ear Buds out to whoever wants them.  I need to have several grand listening sessions first.  for the last 3 days it’s been nothing but the ShoonTH, so I’m pretty sure those won’t go anywhere, same goes for the EA Ear Buds and possibly my X6.  It may go, but I really like it for ‘on the go‘ music production.  It has a signature that works well for writing lo-fi beats and even playing VST pianos, but I am going to trial the EA Ear Buds for that too.  Who knows how I’ll like the SMABAT… If anyone come is interested in getting on the list earlier just PM me.



Also waiting on mine... And on lbbs. EU vat regulations screwed the customs queue on my country...  the golden driver (150ohm) got here first..


----------



## axhng (Jul 6, 2021)

sfrsfr said:


> Jietu store is surely one of the most trustworthy chinese audio stores out there. I've bought about half of my earbuds and gear from Jietu. The service is always excellent and they promptly answer any of my questions or requests.
> The most likely answer is you've got the real Monk+. Deal with it!
> 
> Btw. how do you find the LBBS now? Does the sound signature resemble the K64S? And what is actually the difference between K64S and K64?


Yeah, same here. I've bought from them from a number of times already, so I doubt that to be the case too. It's probably way too much effort too for little gains. Which leaves it down to QC or just my personal preference I guess since I tend to prioritise mids more than anything else.





no idea what's different about k64 and k64s apart from the different cable though.

For the LBBS, still kinda want to give them more time in my ears before I come to a conclusion, but my thoughts at this point is that the LBBS don't quite resemble the K64S' sound signature to me. I'm using a single full foams and they have a bright-ish neutral tuning to me with an overall more airy/open presentation. I personally don't find the bass quantity lacking, but there is a bit less bass quantity overall especially mid bass, slightly more forward midrange with more elevation in the upper mids and lower treble, and a bit more treble overall. they are not as smooth to listen to, and probably less "fun" if you like some warmth and a bit more bass, but I still really enjoy them for different reasons. the detail retrieval and clarity is quite addictive. even though there isn't a ton of bass quantity, the quality sounds great to me. Tight and well controlled. The upper mids and lower treble might be a bit much for some folks, but for me it's fine, and I can still listen to it for hours without issue. Nice amount of treble, but something like the nicehck ME80 probably has a tad more elevation at around 9-10 kHz, so cymbals (and probably any instruments with a similar metallic nature) has a bit more of a natural sounding decay (to my subjective perception at least, but the difference is really tiny). I noticed it because of this pretty popular performance of autumn leaves, and at around 0:47 someone drops a coin into what sounds like a violin case with some coins already inside, and on the ME80 the sound of the coin hitting other coins in there sounds slightly more organic? It's a strange thing to pay attention to i know. lol.

But anyway, I think it has better clarity and detail retrieval over the ME80 as well, which makes orchestral music really shine for me, especially those with wind instruments, and violins. I feel like the airier presentation helps in making it sound more spacious too. Imaging is excellent as well. That said, because of good technicalities, I find them enjoyable even when listening to Billie Eillish's Bad Guy or Tove Lo's Habits. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(these can probably be considered to be epic music too?)



I've found a ton of enjoyment over these tracks in particular even though I don't listen to them that often. Anyway, as you can probably somewhat tell, I really enjoy them. But because of the leaner presentation, leaner mid bass, and perhaps bright-ish sound, some folks might not enjoy them as much, but that can be somewhat helped by using full foam + donut foams. Though no matter what the sub-bass still isn't going to be as good as the ME80 though. I personally prefer single full foams, because i find that it dulls the treble a bit, which takes away a bit of what I like about them. So far, i feel like they're worth the 44 SGD asking price on shopee at least.


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Before I start, understand this as my personal opinion. I have no intention of hype this product line
> 
> 
> *ESEP-01BL* is the good entry level buds which shows its uniqueness and true character of the ShoonTH lineup. IMO, the price is just right. I'm not a fan of the cable, but even if you cut the cable, I will buy it again  By saying this I mean that this driver (32ohm) alone is the strong candidate to be in range $10-$20
> ...


They got an interesting shell at least. But I doubt @Penon would send me one.


----------



## furyossa (Jul 6, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> They got an interesting shell at least. But I doubt @Penon would send me one.


You will enjoy in comfort with them. DP100 shell has way better fit and comfort then MX500. 
Try again, this time be nice, maybe they can send you whole lineup


----------



## wskl

axhng said:


> Yeah, same here. I've bought from them from a number of times already, so I doubt that to be the case too. It's probably way too much effort too for little gains. Which leaves it down to QC or just my personal preference I guess since I tend to prioritise mids more than anything else.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Nice write up on the LBBS, I have the white LBB and your post pretty much describes the sound of mine.  The elevated upper mids do smooth out eventually, like after a few hundred hours .. lol


----------



## axhng (Jul 6, 2021)

wskl said:


> Nice write up on the LBBS, I have the white LBB and your post pretty much describes the sound of mine.  The elevated upper mids do smooth out eventually, like after a few hundred hours .. lol


Thanks! I'll probably be using them a ton anyway.  For me I think because the detail retrieval is good, i'm happy with the upper mids even as they are now actually. So instead of finding them shouty, I think they just sound really clear. With the few reports here about QC issues, I'm just hoping that I can get a few hundred hours of play time out of them 

I wonder if that has to do with how short the stem is too. For shells with longer stem it's a lot easier to remove them by grabbing the stem. But on the LBBS, it's mostly just wire. If one pulls on the wire to remove the earbuds too often, that would probably place more stress on the solder points (or drivers?) if there isn't a proper strain relief internally. I'm trying my best to always remember to lift the earbuds from the stem first to loosen them, so i can get a better grip on the shell to pull them out of my ears. But sometimes i still pull it out by the wires out of muscle memory.


----------



## ya1950

axhng said:


> Thanks! I'll probably be using them a ton anyway.  For me I think because the detail retrieval is good, i'm happy with the upper mids even as they are now actually. So instead of finding them shouty, I think they just sound really clear. With the few reports here about QC issues, I'm just hoping that I can get a few hundred hours of play time out of them


I got the LBBS based on the suggestion of @jogawag who recommended them as an upgrade to the NiceHCK MX500. Your post describes very well what I'm hearing as well. To my ears they are bright neutral with very good details and impactful bass which satisfies my sound preference. I'm just getting used to them so this might change with time.

Initially I found them shouty on the verge of being fatiguing. Based on another post by @jogawag I added a donut foam to the regular full foam. For me this tamed the treble considerably and changed them from shouty to very enjoyable. I'm not sure why the change was so dramatic but I suspect that I am getting a much better fit with the double foams and this is effecting what I hear.


----------



## furyossa (Jul 6, 2021)

ya1950 said:


> I got the LBBS based on the suggestion of @jogawag who recommended them as an upgrade to the NiceHCK MX500. Your post describes very well what I'm hearing as well. To my ears they are bright neutral with very good details and impactful bass which satisfies my sound preference. I'm just getting used to them so this might change with time.
> 
> Initially I found them shouty on the verge of being fatiguing. Based on another post by @jogawag I added a donut foam to the regular full foam. For me this tamed the treble considerably and changed them from shouty to very enjoyable. I'm not sure why the change was so dramatic but I suspect that I am getting a much better fit with the double foams and this is effecting what I hear.


Cut the round piece of medical mask and put that, then full foam, optionally donut. Here I play with different things, but see tuning paper shape. That mod will reduce treble even more


----------



## ya1950

furyossa said:


> Cut the round piece of medical mask and put that, then full foam, optionally donut. Here I play with different things, but see tuning paper shape. That mod will reduce treble even more


Wow! I never would have thought of that. I'm going to experiment. Thanks!


----------



## jogawag

RikudouGoku said:


> They got an interesting shell at least. But I doubt @Penon would send me one.


Now you can buy Shoonth from below.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002862629638.html


----------



## axhng

ya1950 said:


> I got the LBBS based on the suggestion of @jogawag who recommended them as an upgrade to the NiceHCK MX500. Your post describes very well what I'm hearing as well. To my ears they are bright neutral with very good details and impactful bass which satisfies my sound preference. I'm just getting used to them so this might change with time.
> 
> Initially I found them shouty on the verge of being fatiguing. Based on another post by @jogawag I added a donut foam to the regular full foam. For me this tamed the treble considerably and changed them from shouty to very enjoyable. I'm not sure why the change was so dramatic but I suspect that I am getting a much better fit with the double foams and this is effecting what I hear.


For me I tried full foam + donut foam, and a silicone ring + foam (didn't work well at all for me). But ended up still preferring how they sound with just full foam. In my case I think my ears are just on the smaller side, so the shell fits me well enough with just that. With MX500 shell they fit well too, but i do get a tinge of soreness on my ears after a longer listening session, whereas I feel fine with these.


----------



## Ronion

nymz said:


> Also waiting on mine... And on lbbs. EU vat regulations screwed the customs queue on my country...  the golden driver (150ohm) got here first..


I ordered one of those as well and it’s close Too.  Ali Shipping did me some justic on that one.


----------



## Trzystatrzy

Hey,
As good as MrZ Tomahawk, but less midcentre. I like good high and bass quality, separation and air and space, but midrange is too forward. Max 50 bucks. Any ideas?


----------



## Ronion

These 40 ohm SMABAT are a different level than anything else earbud-wise I’ve heard.  No question about it.


----------



## nymz (Jul 6, 2021)

Ronion said:


> These 40 ohm SMABAT are a different level than anything else earbud-wise I’ve heard.  No question about it.



Damn, cant wait for mine to arrive. Still stuck on customs, it seems


----------



## Ronion

Now I’m starting to wonder what the cheaper SMABAT sound like.  You can always upgrade the drivers for very little money AND EFFORT.  This system, at first blush, seems like pure, unadulterated genius.  The cable that comes with these is exactly the same as a pair of IEMs I have.  I really like it.  Best ear bud cable I have.  Still, I want to replace it with a FiiO cable I have with ear hooks and it could use a shirt clip.  They were soooo close to nailing this but they opted to cheap out just a little.  I’m not really complaining though because they got the major problems right: fit, comfort, and of course sound.  Making them either balanced or have a microphone would just take them over the top.


----------



## Ronion

Oh, @RikudouGoku, thank you!  Now what cable brand do you recommend?  These things make me want to perfect them.  All others are no longer needed 8O


----------



## Chessnaudio

axhng said:


> For me I tried full foam + donut foam, and a silicone ring + foam (didn't work well at all for me). But ended up still preferring how they sound with just full foam. In my case I think my ears are just on the smaller side, so the shell fits me well enough with just that. With MX500 shell they fit well too, but i do get a tinge of soreness on my ears after a longer listening session, whereas I feel fine with these.


I found one set of full foams tamed the treble enough for me also. Here's the question: At what point do you say the earbud sound signature doesn't work for you? How far do you go to mod/ foam swap etc?


----------



## axhng

Chessnaudio said:


> I found one set of full foams tamed the treble enough for me also. Here's the question: At what point do you say the earbud sound signature doesn't work for you? How far do you go to mod/ foam swap etc?


For me i find that with just donut foams, the sound lacks a bit of body which makes it sound a bit lean for my taste? With donuts on top of full foams, it thickens the sound more, but loses some energy in the higher frequencies, and also reduces the clarity a bit. With that silicone plus full foams, it just didn't fit as deeply in my ears which ends up making it sound out of whack. So in the end just a single full foams worked the best for me. I could probably try to adjust or trim the donuts a bit more to widen the opening and make sure it doesn't cover the front shell but since just full foams worked really well for me, I didn't try that. I normally don't go very far swapping foams with any earbuds. I tend to just start with the included full foams, and if it sounds off to me or not to my liking, I then try donut forms. Usually that's about it.


----------



## Chessnaudio

axhng said:


> For me i find that with just donut foams, the sound lacks a bit of body which makes it sound a bit lean for my taste? With donuts on top of full foams, it thickens the sound more, but loses some energy in the higher frequencies, and also reduces the clarity a bit. With that silicone plus full foams, it just didn't fit as deeply in my ears which ends up making it sound out of whack. So in the end just a single full foams worked the best for me. I could probably try to adjust or trim the donuts a bit more to widen the opening and make sure it doesn't cover the front shell but since just full foams worked really well for me, I didn't try that. I normally don't go very far swapping foams with any earbuds. I tend to just start with the included full foams, and if it sounds off to me or not to my liking, I then try donut forms. Usually that's about it





axhng said:


> For me i find that with just donut foams, the sound lacks a bit of body which makes it sound a bit lean for my taste? With donuts on top of full foams, it thickens the sound more, but loses some energy in the higher frequencies, and also reduces the clarity a bit. With that silicone plus full foams, it just didn't fit as deeply in my ears which ends up making it sound out of whack. So in the end just a single full foams worked the best for me. I could probably try to adjust or trim the donuts a bit more to widen the opening and make sure it doesn't cover the front shell but since just full foams worked really well for me, I didn't try that. I normally don't go very far swapping foams with any earbuds. I tend to just start with the included full foams, and if it sounds off to me or not to my liking, I then try donut forms. Usually that's about it.


Relatively new to earbuds, so asking an overall question, not specific to the LBBS. This definitely answered it 😄


----------



## jeejack (Jul 7, 2021)

Ronion said:


> Oh, @RikudouGoku, thank you!  Now what cable brand do you recommend?  These things make me want to perfect them.  All others are no longer needed 8O


XINHS HIFI Audio Store Store https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0eN06p
I also love my smabat M2pro with 150 ohm ST10s driver


----------



## sfrsfr

jeejack said:


> XINHS HIFI Audio Store Store https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0eN06p
> I also love my smabat M2pro with 150 ohm ST10s driver


If you have both M2pro and ST10s, how do they compare? Or you have only the ST10s driver?


----------



## ya1950 (Jul 7, 2021)

Chessnaudio said:


> I found one set of full foams tamed the treble enough for me also. Here's the question: At what point do you say the earbud sound signature doesn't work for you? How far do you go to mod/ foam swap etc?


I don’t have an answer but, to me, trying different foams is similar to trying different tips for a particular IEM. At some point I give up on both.


----------



## Ronion

jeejack said:


> XINHS HIFI Audio Store Store https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0eN06p
> I also love my smabat M2pro with 150 ohm ST10s driver


I have acquired the 150ohm driver yet, but i appreciate the cable rec!  Those are the cable brand I was 
Looking for but couldn’t find in the thread.  

doing some side-by-side comparisons tonight between the X6, ShoonTH, EA Ear Buds and the SMABAT M2s pro I‘ll say this: if I were to do an “S” tier, it would be the M2s Pro 40ohm and the EA Ear Buds. The ShoonTH and the Yincrow are a step down and my personal choice of those two would be the X6 but a narrow margin And it would depend on what I’m listening to.  For acoust stuff, the ShoonTH.  For electronic, the X6.  I could listen to anything with either of my S tier picks with the M2s pro having the most space while the EA Buds have the most bass.  If you’re broke, the X6 does very well on anything for very little money.  What a great time to be a music fan who loves playback gear.


----------



## furyossa

Ronion said:


> *If you’re broke*, the X6 does very well on anything for very little money. What a great time to be a music fan who loves playback gear.


These people think more about what to eat than about buying an X6


----------



## ian91

It's so true though, there are some serious bargains in the earbud world! A good DAP and a good earbud and you're set.


----------



## Сomrade (Jul 7, 2021)

Ronion said:


> Now what cable brand do you recommend?


4 cores
8 cores
For bass (if not enough). High Frequencies Are Saved.
 If you need a microphone


----------



## Trzystatrzy

Trzystatrzy said:


> Hey,
> As good as MrZ Tomahawk, but less midcentre. I like good high and bass quality, separation and air and space, but midrange is too forward. Max 50 bucks. Any ideas?


So many answers and nobody can help me? ;(


----------



## axhng

Tingo TC200 from JieTu shopee store arrived earlier today. Warmish sound signature with some upper mids boost? Slight U shape? More mid bass than sub bass, and it's a little on the boomy side, though not the worse I've heard. Lower mids are not the cleanest sounding thanks to the mid bass, but deeper male vocals do sound full enough. Just don't expect much in more bass heavy tracks. Upper mids is elevated with a noticeable boost at around 3 kHz, and then a smaller one at 5kHz. So brighter vocals sound a bit more forward to me and has a decent presence, which isn't a bad thing actually to balance out that mid bass bump. This is where things get a little weird for me. There is a noticeable dip at around 8.5kHz which makes females vocals in particular sound lacking in air. It makes female vocals sound kinda weird to me, but maybe the consolation is that it is no where near being shouty, so maybe it'll be a comfortable listen for those who like to listen at higher volumes? This does affect other instruments in that frequency range of course.  the treble does come back up again after that with a minor bump at around 10kHz, so cymbal have some decent "tssssss" sound to it at least, even though it is somewhat lacking in definition (probably thanks to that dip). Technicalities isn't amazing, but isn't terrible either, and is at least a small step up from the more budget earbuds  to me. But that dip at 8.5kHz throws me off a bit though. If not for that I think it'll still be a somewhat enjoyable warm sounding pair of earbuds.

Personally, for just 2 SGD (1.5 USD) more on shopee, I can get the K's K64S which has a tighter bass with better sub-bass, more natural sounding tonality, and slightly better technicalities. The cable is nicer on the K64S too. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## jogawag

Trzystatrzy said:


> So many answers and nobody can help me? ;(


I recommend you Shoonth from below.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002862629638.html


----------



## chinmie

Trzystatrzy said:


> Hey,
> As good as MrZ Tomahawk, but less midcentre. I like good high and bass quality, separation and air and space, but midrange is too forward. Max 50 bucks. Any ideas?





Trzystatrzy said:


> So many answers and nobody can help me? ;(



might be because what the Tomahawk does, there's not a lot that is similar to. i think the best bet would be another Musicmaker/ Toneking products like the TO line (which have less forward mids than the Tomahawk) or the more expensive Viridis (can't comment on the sound because i haven't heard it personally). 

other similar "breath" of sound to the Tomahawk that i prefer more would be the PT15 (more neutral) or the H185.


----------



## furyossa

axhng said:


> Tingo TC200 from JieTu shopee store arrived earlier today. Warmish sound signature with some upper mids boost? Slight U shape? More mid bass than sub bass, and it's a little on the boomy side, though not the worse I've heard. Lower mids are not the cleanest sounding thanks to the mid bass, but deeper male vocals do sound full enough. Just don't expect much in more bass heavy tracks. Upper mids is elevated with a noticeable boost at around 3 kHz, and then a smaller one at 5kHz. So brighter vocals sound a bit more forward to me and has a decent presence, which isn't a bad thing actually to balance out that mid bass bump. This is where things get a little weird for me. There is a noticeable dip at around 8.5kHz which makes females vocals in particular sound lacking in air. It makes female vocals sound kinda weird to me, but maybe the consolation is that it is no where near being shouty, so maybe it'll be a comfortable listen for those who like to listen at higher volumes? This does affect other instruments in that frequency range of course.  the treble does come back up again after that with a minor bump at around 10kHz, so cymbal have some decent "tssssss" sound to it at least, even though it is somewhat lacking in definition (probably thanks to that dip). Technicalities isn't amazing, but isn't terrible either, and is at least a small step up from the more budget earbuds  to me. But that dip at 8.5kHz throws me off a bit though. If not for that I think it'll still be a somewhat enjoyable warm sounding pair of earbuds.
> 
> Personally, for just 2 SGD (1.5 USD) more on shopee, I can get the K's K64S which has a tighter bass with better sub-bass, more natural sounding tonality, and slightly better technicalities. The cable is nicer on the K64S too. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Or go with TG-38s


----------



## RikudouGoku

Ronion said:


> Oh, @RikudouGoku, thank you!  Now what cable brand do you recommend?  These things make me want to perfect them.  All others are no longer needed 8O


Check my database and pick one of the A series based on aesthetics: 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...zTm4ei7HEfP8AI1zxswrMw2ho/edit#gid=1801072063


----------



## rprodrigues (Jul 7, 2021)

Hi all,

Is Faaeal Snow Lotus 2.5mm a buds to consider?
I see that it has got mixed thoughts, but I'm interessed on it due to the good surprise Rosemary is soundwise.

Has anyone already compared it to Rosemary or even to another 64 Ohm buds?


----------



## Serge Bernamej

I don’t remember if I’ve mentioned it but on my main setup, I add subwoofers to earbud listening. The amp has an output out that goes into a passive preamp from which I control the Subwoofer’s volume.
Very happy listener here


----------



## RikudouGoku

Serge Bernamej said:


> I don’t remember if I’ve mentioned it but on my main setup, I add subwoofers to earbud listening. The amp has an output out that goes into a passive preamp from which I control the Subwoofer’s volume.
> Very happy listener here


Guess the zero isolation from buds is actually a big plus for you.


----------



## Serge Bernamej (Jul 7, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Guess the zero isolation from buds is actually a big plus for you.


Mind you, it’s pretty hard to isolate from subbass, but I do tend to not cut the bass too early it’s true, it makes a meatier sound and gives the impression of an even bigger soundstage. Also sub is as much about audibility as feeling (of course I don’t get that much of « feeling » because I only listen to classical).


----------



## sfrsfr (Jul 7, 2021)

rprodrigues said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Is Faaeal Snow Lotus 2.5mm a buds to consider?
> I see that it has got mixed thoughts, but I'm interessed on it due to the good surprise Rosemary is soundwise.
> ...


I can compare Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0+ CE with Rosemary if it helps. The 1.0+ is more neutral tuned, and it is very good in my opinion. It also has the same cable as Rosemary, which is my favorite cable among cheaper buds.
The Snow Lotus 2.5mm and 1.0+ have the same driver specs, probably only the cable is different.


----------



## sfrsfr

Serge Bernamej said:


> I don’t remember if I’ve mentioned it but on my main setup, I add subwoofers to earbud listening. The amp has an output out that goes into a passive preamp from which I control the Subwoofer’s volume.
> Very happy listener here


This is an excellent idea worth experimenting with. I will try to look into it further at some point...


----------



## povidlo

Fu.ck the Diablo!


----------



## fonkepala

furyossa said:


> Or go with TG-38s


I second this, especially because there's talk that the newer TC-200's uses a different driver than the older ones. Also, supposedly the TG-38 is the 'O.G' Tingo.

Speaking of Tingos, I have a Tingo TG-38SA from Taobao. Pretty obscure buds. Clear shelled, mmcx. 300 ohms but surprisingly not that hard to drive. Very warm, thick sound, kinda wonky in the mids with weird decays but works ok for certain genres. I found them to pair very well with the CXPro dongle that's been much hyped over on FB.

Anyway, anyone else enjoying their Monk Go? I've been using mine for about a week now and I've to say they're very good. Quite a departure from the typical VE Monk house sound. Neutral-ish, clear sound sig. Mine is numbered #234/3000.

I've also ordered the Zen LL in 2.5mm, so looking forward to that as well in addition to the Blur which should arrive in about a week's time.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

sfrsfr said:


> This is an excellent idea worth experimenting with. I will try to look into it further at some point...


It is very easy to do and very addictive, just make sure to have a passive preamp to calibrate your sub (although you might not have to do this often). I personally use 2 subwoofers but it’s not a necessity (one sub is for the very very lowest sub and the other goes higher in frequency). With this, I don’t miss headphones whatsoever, and even less speakers.


----------



## furyossa

fonkepala said:


> I second this, especially because there's talk that the newer TC-200's uses a different driver than the older ones. Also, supposedly the TG-38 is the 'O.G' Tingo.
> 
> Speaking of Tingos, I have a Tingo TG-38SA from Taobao. Pretty obscure buds. Clear shelled, mmcx. 300 ohms but surprisingly not that hard to drive. Very warm, thick sound, kinda wonky in the mids with weird decays but works ok for certain genres. I found them to pair very well with the CXPro dongle that's been much hyped over on FB.
> 
> ...


OG TG-38s is not 300ohm. Where did you find this version?


----------



## fonkepala (Jul 7, 2021)

furyossa said:


> OG TG-38s is not 300ohm. Where did you find this version?


No, it indeed isn't. The one that's 300ohm that I was referring to is the TG-38SA. I bought it from a friend who organised a group buy for it from Taobao. Let me see if I can find the link.

Edit: Found it. Link here, @furyossa


----------



## furyossa (Jul 7, 2021)

fonkepala said:


> No, it indeed isn't. The one that's 300ohm that I was referring to is the TG-38SA. I bought it from a friend who organised a group buy for it from Taobao. Let me see if I can find the link.


There is few DIY 300ohm drivers which are used for many buds. This is "stubborn" driver which not allow to tune it so easily. And SQ is noting special.
I will post why is TG-38s special...at least for me.


----------



## furyossa (Jul 7, 2021)

fonkepala said:


> Edit: Found it. Link here, @furyossa


I don't think this has anything to do with Tingo lineup, like TC400. Why do they all call the "*Tingo*" any model that has a silver shell? For me the only realistic versions are TC200 (no MMCX version), TC300 probably (didn't try jet), TG-38s.
You have transparent shell version?


----------



## fonkepala

furyossa said:


> I don't think this has anything to do with Tingo lineup, like TC400. Why do they all call the Tingo model any model that has a silver shell. For me the only realistic versions are TC200 (no MMCX version), TC300 probably (didn't try jet), TG-38s.
> You have transparent shell version?


Yes, the TG38SA 300 ohm that I have is the clear-shelled version, not silver/metallic.


----------



## Ronion

RikudouGoku said:


> Check my database and pick one of the A series based on aesthetics:
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...zTm4ei7HEfP8AI1zxswrMw2ho/edit#gid=1801072063


Brothaman, do you have any idea how helpful your reviews and databases have been for me?  Thank you.  Sincerely.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Ronion said:


> Brothaman, do you have any idea how helpful your reviews and databases have been for me?  Thank you.  Sincerely.


Thank you very much.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Joining the fold after having just placed an order for a pair of M2s Pro. Seems like a comfortable starting spot and looks like it was on sale at Smabat's site. Really just want a convenient prog-friendly earbud for around the house that isn't bass-absent.

Trusting you ears on this one, @RikudouGoku


----------



## MelodyMood (Jul 7, 2021)

What are Balanced or Neutral Earbuds? Do they have any Bass and Treble or all needs to be adjusted through EQ only? Also, how is 1More Earbuds? Are they very good for AUD $40-50 price (I think there was one available on some site around this price).

It is 1More E1008 . Someone posted that it is available on offer at Euro 20 which is good price as most of the times I saw that around AUD 90-100 only.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/1more1008-earbud.22232/reviews

Or any earbud with Balanced Sound with Enhanced Bass.


----------



## wskl

MelodyMood said:


> What are Balanced or Neutral Earbuds? Do they have any Bass and Treble or all needs to be adjusted through EQ only? Also, how is 1More Earbuds? Are they very good for AUD $40-50 price (I think there was one available on some site around this price).
> 
> It is 1More E1008 . Someone posted that it is available on offer at Euro 20 which is good price as most of the times I saw that around AUD 90-100 only.
> 
> ...



An explanation of various sound signatures
https://audio-technica.com.au/a-simple-guide-to-sound-signatures/


----------



## aspire5550

furyossa said:


> I don't think this has anything to do with Tingo lineup, like TC400. Why do they all call the "*Tingo*" any model that has a silver shell? For me the only realistic versions are TC200 (no MMCX version), TC300 probably (didn't try jet), TG-38s.
> You have transparent shell version?


The link @fonkepala provide is from official Tingo shop in taobao. The shop name is *TIGOOR听哥耳机工厂店 TG, *which has been active in taobao for 13 years. 

FYI, tingo is a direct pronounciation of 听哥(loosely translate to listen bro).

From that link, they provide customizable option for 150ohm and 300ohm version of TG38SA which is mmcx connected and also normal version of tg38 but has mmcx socket.


----------



## furyossa (Jul 8, 2021)

aspire5550 said:


> The link @fonkepala provide is from official Tingo shop in taobao. The shop name is *TIGOOR听哥耳机工厂店 TG, *which has been active in taobao for 13 years.
> 
> FYI, tingo is a direct pronounciation of 听哥(loosely translate to listen bro).
> 
> From that link, they provide customizable option for 150ohm and 300ohm version of TG38SA which is mmcx connected and also normal version of tg38 but has mmcx socket.


Yup. Now I see. They sale also TG-38s with 3 different cables
This version can be found on Chitty store 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32435966900.html




With twisted cable



with branding on Y-splitter and plug




The spec.

Impedance: 16Ω
Sensitivity: 95dB/mW
Frequency response: 20-22000Hz
The main difference in appearance between TC200 and TG-38s is cable.
TG-38s has much better plug and wire is softer.
Also left and right markings on the shell


----------



## furyossa (Jul 14, 2021)

_A brief retrospective: TinGo TG-38s_​In this post, I will try to explain why TG-38s is still the one of the favorite pair of buds after almost 2 year of use.
The specifications

Impedance: 16Ω
Sensitivity: 95dB/mW
Frequency response: 20-22000Hz
They can be found on Chitty's Store : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32435966900.html
BTW... I have no problem using TG-38s with "Power Match" (turn on) on my iFi Zen DAC.





Why these buds have such a great value? Well ... let's start from the build. The Tingo lineup are recognizable by its silver shell.
These shells are a copy of the good-old Sennheiser MX500 model with a small difference in shell depth and side vents form from inside the shell.
To achieve this "mirror" like finish, they use special water plating technique. Also, the sound of these shells on hit is quite different from standard plastic shells.
Another interesting thing about TG-38s is that it uses an aluminum voice coil. Aluminum is much lighter than copper, so this has an effect on the movement of the diaphragm. They stated that this kind of voice coil can clear the sound, which can be true.
The cables are one of the best single strand cables I have used so far. Most single strand cables, over time, start to become stiffer and change color, but this is not the case with this cable. It's lightweight, decent thickness, soft and tangle-free.





TG-38s has a balanced sound signature with excellent extension on both ends. Sub-bass and bass complement each other very nicely. Quality and quantity are at a decent level, and for buds in this price range are probably above average. The bass decay has moderate speed and the bass texture is rendered well.
As for the mids,  clarity of the vocals are the only thing that requires slight improvement but when it comes to instruments and their separation this model really does a great job. Treble is detailed, which is rare to find in budget models. With bad recordings and with songs that are prone to sibilants, low sharpness can be felt.
This pair is not considered bright, and what sets it apart from the others is the presentation of micro-details from the background.
Imaging is average, precision is good but "the star of the show" is soundstage. This is the reason why this model is still on my table and not at the bottom of the drawer.
This is the KING of 3D soundstage and goes beyond its price range.

I love to use TG-38s for binaural recordings and live music, but it's also good for almost every genre.
This is not professional freq. graph, but it's the only thing I can provide right now


----------



## FranQL (Jul 8, 2021)

furyossa said:


> My favorite from that pack is of course Tingo TG-38s. One of my favorite earbuds. Need some burn-in time but after that ... you will enjoy it.
> Can be sibilant on some songs but rarely, the sub-bass and bass are tuned beautifully, and highs are not offensive, only I can tell ... nice details.
> MX500 silver shell is not cheap plastic but some kind of aluminum-plastic alloy, only on the original model. Can you do a close-up?





vygas said:


> Reading through these posts makes me think how the hell the MX980 driver from the real TinGo TC200 would even fit in an MX500 shell, since those drivers are actually fairly thick but even smaller in diameter than the PK drivers. Though I do agree on the TG-38s, after some burn-in and if you have a legit pair, they are very, very good buds.





furyossa said:


> sub-bass: Tingo *>* ShoonTH
> bass: Tingo (slower)* <=* SHOONTH (faster) - both are good, but I like faster bass response (personal preference)
> mids (vocals):  Tingo < ShoonTH
> imaging:  Tingo < ShoonTH
> ...





furyossa said:


> Yup that why I use it as sleeping buds  but TG-38s leaves me awake until your playlist is complete



Yes, Tingo TG-38s, I have been listening to them for a few hours, they are impressive, I was going to make a description of the negative things, and I have realized that it is a waste of time, @furyossa  has better abilities to do a review and more time of listening with them than I do.



€ 12, a very impressive value that destroys buds that I have without effort. The MX500 fit has never been my favorite but I was pleasantly surprised by this purchase


----------



## furyossa

furyossa said:


> Before I start, understand this as my personal opinion. I have no intention of hype this product line
> 
> 
> *ESEP-01BL* is the good entry level buds which shows its uniqueness and true character of the ShoonTH lineup. IMO, the price is just right. I'm not a fan of the cable, but even if you cut the cable, I will buy it again  By saying this I mean that this driver (32ohm) alone is the strong candidate to be in range $10-$20
> ...





jrazmar said:


> Thanks mr. furyossa for the information. I searched through the net and haven't found also any reviews about these buds so maybe I'll wait until the likes of @RikudouGoku or maybe @ClieOS get their hands on it. Besides, the Blur which I purchased from a fellow headfier is still on its way.





furyossa said:


> Only TOTL model don't have any review, ESEP-01BL and ESEP-01BLE have. If @ClieOS not have these, probably will not get them, and @RikudouGoku rarely buys from Penon.
> That's the way it is for now



Finally, some review for ShoonTH flagship model *ESEP-01BU*


----------



## sfrsfr

I am going to get the LBBS as well as the Shoonth Esep-01Bl, so I can hear what is the buzz about!
And the Tingo TG-38s is also on my shopping list...

Btw. my newly acquired VE Zen LL is really pleasant, the people raving about it earlier in this thread did not lie.


----------



## furyossa (Jul 8, 2021)

sfrsfr said:


> I am going to get the LBBS as well as the Shoonth Esep-01Bl, so I can hear what is the buzz about!
> And the Tingo TG-38s is also on my shopping list...
> 
> Btw. my newly acquired VE Zen LL is really pleasant, the people raving about it earlier in this thread did not lie.


Here on this thread are all good guys, and no one lies  
BTW... I wish we had a girl here. Rachel Weisz?


----------



## fonkepala

aspire5550 said:


> The link @fonkepala provide is from official Tingo shop in taobao. The shop name is *TIGOOR听哥耳机工厂店 TG, *which has been active in taobao for 13 years.
> 
> FYI, tingo is a direct pronounciation of 听哥(loosely translate to listen bro).
> 
> From that link, they provide customizable option for 150ohm and 300ohm version of TG38SA which is mmcx connected and also normal version of tg38 but has mmcx socket.


Thanks for the very insightful info. Good to know that at least the seller is legit. As somewhat of an aside, so far I've only used my TG38SA with an el-cheapo basic 3.5mm mmcx cable that I probably got from an old pair of Tennmak Pro several years ago. But earlier today, I decided to cable roll and swapped to a 6 core Yinyuuu copper cable with 4.4 termination and then paired everything with the iFi Zen Dac. Wow, to say the sound signature of the TG38SA is an understatement. It now sounds more open and lively is the best way I could put it. Where it sounded muffled and heavily veiled before, it is now much clearer and I'm enjoying it very much. I'm not sure if this is because of running it balanced or if it's due to the cable swap, but if the latter, then I'm about to be a 'cable believer'.



sfrsfr said:


> Btw. my newly acquired VE Zen LL is really pleasant, the people raving about it earlier in this thread did not lie.


Can you describe sound of the Zen LL for me? Did you get it in 3.5mm or balanced? What source are you using?



furyossa said:


> BTW... I wish we had a girl here. Rachel Weisz?


I'm a big fan!


----------



## furyossa (Jul 8, 2021)

fonkepala said:


> Thanks for the very insightful info. Good to know that at least the seller is legit. As somewhat of an aside, so far I've only used my TG38SA with an el-cheapo basic 3.5mm mmcx cable that I probably got from an old pair of Tennmak Pro several years ago. But earlier today, I decided to cable roll and swapped to a 6 core Yinyuuu copper cable with 4.4 termination and then paired everything with the iFi Zen Dac. Wow, to say the sound signature of the TG38SA is an understatement. It now sounds more open and lively is the best way I could put it. Where it sounded muffled and heavily veiled before, it is now much clearer and I'm enjoying it very much. I'm not sure if this is because of running it balanced or if it's due to the cable swap, but if the latter, then I'm about to be a 'cable believer'.


Cable can help, but in your case, I think that your pair required more power from a good DAC/AMP. Going balanced is the right choice for high impedance buds. I will
order probably one more pair of TG-38s for DIY project and I will also try to swap the cable to 2.5 mm or 4.4 mm 



fonkepala said:


> I'm a big fan!


Who is not


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

fonkepala said:


> Can you describe sound of the Zen LL for me? Did you get it in 3.5mm or balanced? What source are you using?


Curious about this as well. I have a Monk Lite SPC on its way in; if the Zen LL is significantly different, I may try to order a set next month.


----------



## fonkepala

furyossa said:


> Cable can help, but in your case, I think that your pair required more power from a good DAC/AMP. Going balanced is the right choice for high impedance buds. I will
> order probably one more pair of TG-38s for DIY project and I will also try to swap the cable to 2.5 mm or 4.4 mm


Yup, I suppose that's the case as well. I've paired it with a Qudelix before, but always SE as I thought they were quite easy to drive and never required me to go crazy on the volume dial. I guess what I've learned is that even though something can be driven to listenable levels, that doesn't mean it's 'properly' driven. So, in the case of this TG38SA, pretty much anything (even cheap dongles) can drive it to listenable volumes, but still it needed power that can only be gotten from running it balanced to fully open up and show its true SS. Hmmm, TIL.

I can only imagine how sweet that TG38 of yours will sing when it's run balanced.


----------



## fonkepala

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Curious about this as well. I have a Monk Lite SPC on its way in; if the Zen LL is significantly different, I may try to order a set next month.


Get rid of the 'may', just order it now! That's what I did a few days ago. Quash that wondering and know for sure!!!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

fonkepala said:


> Get rid of the 'may', just order it now! That's what I did a few days ago. Quash that wondering and know for sure!!!


If I didn't also have a review program I'm going through on the side, I probably would, but I went bonkers the last time I had too much new stuff on my plate! The M2s Pro and Monk Lite SPC 120ohm are going to have to be enough for now


----------



## furyossa

fonkepala said:


> Yup, I suppose that's the case as well. I've paired it with a Qudelix before, but always SE as I thought they were quite easy to drive and never required me to go crazy on the volume dial. I guess what I've learned is that even though something can be driven to listenable levels, that doesn't mean it's 'properly' driven. So, in the case of this TG38SA, pretty much anything (even cheap dongles) can drive it to listenable volumes, but still it needed power that can only be gotten from running it balanced to fully open up and show its true SS. Hmmm, TIL.
> 
> I can only imagine how sweet that TG38 of yours will sing when it's run balanced.


TG-38s, although they do not seem to require some power, because of low sensitivity (95dB) they do. I use impedance adapter (75ohm) when I use it with LG G7 to be able
to use QuadDAC. 
About high impedance buds. I can drive DIY 400ohm buds on LG at the decent volume level, but this is totally absurd. 
Burr Brown chip in iFi Zen DAC is way more advanced then LG QuadDAC (saber chip) and it has (at least for me) way better SQ then any ESS or AK chip that I own.


fonkepala said:


> Get rid of the 'may', just order it now! That's what I did a few days ago. Quash that wondering and know for sure!!!


Well said. 
Don't think too much, the train will leave the station soon.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

furyossa said:


> Well said.
> Don't think too much, the train will leave the station soon.


I look at it this way: just from the M2s Pro alone, there are 6 different driver and 3 different tuning disks that can be used within that shell. It'll at least get me miles ahead on learning more about the available tonalities before I go sinking more chasing various companies' house sounds.

https://www.smabat.com/products/m-a-driver-m2-pro-module

Considering how much Chi-Fi, TWS, and random IEMs I've collected throughout the years, I'm hoping I can at least do earbuds with a shred of discipline hahaha.


----------



## RikudouGoku

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Considering how much Chi-Fi, TWS, and random IEMs I've collected throughout the years, I'm hoping I can at least do earbuds with a shred of discipline hahaha.


hmmmm, this sounds familiar.




Didnt turn out so well for me lol. 24 buds and 5 more incoming and another one I havent even ranked yet.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

RikudouGoku said:


> hmmmm, this sounds familiar.
> 
> 
> Didnt turn out so well for me lol. 24 buds and 5 more incoming and another one I havent even ranked yet.


I don't see the M2s Pro in there yet. Where is it going to end up? Can't remember if you mentioned it in your review

Ignore. Need more coffee.


----------



## furyossa

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001393234511.html
With M2 Pro (no M2s Pro) you can even go further and try any 15.4mm driver and not just the ones that Smabat offers


----------



## furyossa

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I don't see the M2s Pro in there yet. Where is it going to end up? Can't remember if you mentioned it in your review
> 
> Ignore. Need more coffee.


Just go with the 8. place on the list, and you don't need to worry


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

furyossa said:


> Just go with the 8. place on the list, and you don't need to worry


I think the issue I'm having is how hard some of these are to track down. I'm not very AE-savvy, so trying to find specific K's models, even with the guides some of you have posted here, seems rather difficult.

Any pointers?


----------



## fonkepala

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Considering how much Chi-Fi, TWS, and random IEMs I've collected throughout the years, I'm hoping I can at least do earbuds with a shred of discipline hahaha.


Famous last words. When it comes to earbuds, there's no such thing. 

I think I too said this once many moons ago. Now, after 50-60 or so earbuds later, I'm writing this to you from quite a ways into the rabbit hole. What's worse is that the bottom is nowhere in sight.


----------



## RikudouGoku

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I think the issue I'm having is how hard some of these are to track down. I'm not very AE-savvy, so trying to find specific K's models, even with the guides some of you have posted here, seems rather difficult.
> 
> Any pointers?


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32807226027.html

Those K buds are definitely hard to find thanks to the name lol.

But here are a few:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002513078055.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002512975421.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002512934235.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002512981941.html


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

fonkepala said:


> Famous last words. When it comes to earbuds, there's no such thing.
> 
> I think I too said this once many moons ago. Now, after 50-60 or so earbuds later, I'm writing this to you from quite a ways into the rabbit hole. What's worse is that the bottom is nowhere in sight.


The parallels between this and the early days of the Chi-Fi race are so similar. Guess we'll see what happens. If I start filling tackle boxes with buds, send help.


RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32807226027.html
> 
> Those K buds are definitely hard to find thanks to the name lol.
> 
> ...


Exactly what I was looking for. You're a lifesaver!


----------



## fonkepala

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The parallels between this and the early days of the Chi-Fi race are so similar. Guess we'll see what happens. If I start filling tackle boxes with buds, send help.


I can give pointers on what type of tackle boxes/other boxes are best


----------



## furyossa

fonkepala said:


> Famous last words. When it comes to earbuds, there's no such thing.
> 
> I think I too said this once many moons ago. Now, after 50-60 or so earbuds later, I'm writing this to you from quite a ways into the rabbit hole. What's worse is that the bottom is nowhere in sight.


Sorry I can't see you there. It's too dark. We are probably at the same depth, but I'm in the different "DIY parts and buds "


----------



## fonkepala

furyossa said:


> Sorry I can't see you there. It's too dark. We are probably at the same depth, but I'm in the different "DIY parts and buds "


Oh, that's another hole entirely, one which I'd rather not venture into. I heard the rabbits are nicer there


----------



## furyossa

fonkepala said:


> Oh, that's another hole entirely, one which I'd rather not venture into. I heard the rabbits are nicer there


You can bet on that. It is warm and comfy here, but also too stuffy from all these parts


----------



## Chessnaudio (Jul 8, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I think the issue I'm having is how hard some of these are to track down. I'm not very AE-savvy, so trying to find specific K's models, even with the guides some of you have posted here, seems rather difficult.
> 
> Any pointers?


Check out Awedyo Audio. Won't have all of them, but you might be able to demo some. I had a good experience buying from him. I got my K's LBBS. I was (and am still) leary of buying from Aliexpress. This forum helps tremendously though


----------



## Chessnaudio

In other news, gotta love USPS. My Earbuds Anonymous havebeen sitting in Chicago sine June 24 with no updates on Shipping. I'm in NY!


----------



## FranQL

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I look at it this way: just from the M2s Pro alone, there are 6 different driver and 3 different tuning disks that can be used within that shell. It'll at least get me miles ahead on learning more about the available tonalities before I go sinking more chasing various companies' house sounds.
> 
> https://www.smabat.com/products/m-a-driver-m2-pro-module
> 
> Considering how much Chi-Fi, TWS, and random IEMs I've collected throughout the years, I'm hoping I can at least do earbuds with a shred of discipline hahaha.



I am very practical, although there are 6 different controllers, I look better having 6 different buds ready to use. That's why this interchangeable controller roll is not for me.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

FranQL said:


> I am very practical, although there are 6 different controllers, I look better having 6 different buds ready to use. That's why this interchangeable controller roll is not for me.


I understand the mindset. Easier to do A/B testing that way as well. One of the reasons I tend to buy cables cheap and in bulk.

Figured the M2s Pro will be a happy middle between "someone figured this tuning out for me" and "I can at least perform a little DIY" without losing myself in the process. I tend to make my first device or two something I can grow with throughout the hobby.


----------



## furyossa

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I understand the mindset. Easier to do A/B testing that way as well. One of the reasons I tend to buy cables cheap and in bulk.
> 
> Figured the M2s Pro will be a happy middle between "someone figured this tuning out for me" and "I can at least perform a little DIY" without losing myself in the process. I tend to make my first device or two something I can grow with throughout the hobby.


Also, you will probably put one driver (the best one) and forget about the rest. Problem is because they are not exactley the same SQ but different signature.
BTW...are you planing to do some DIY stuff, Mr Cusack?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

furyossa said:


> Also, you will probably put one driver (the best one) and forget about the rest. Problem is because they are not exactley the same SQ but different signature.
> BTW...are you planing to do some DIY stuff, Mr Cusack?


Much further down the road. I used to be somewhat spry with a soldering iron in the past. First goal is understanding the different sound signatures and which treatments produce which effects. Haven't seen a whole lot of front-wave treatment performed on these things yet (aside from foam-rolling), so wondering if there's potential there. Seems the majority of folks treat the backwave, so maybe there's something there.

Used to have a copy of the Woofer Cookbook in a past life. I'll have to grab another copy before I join that party.

Any major lessons learned that you wish you could relay to a younger version of you?


----------



## furyossa (Jul 8, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Much further down the road. I used to be somewhat spry with a soldering iron in the past. First goal is understanding the different sound signatures and which treatments produce which effects. Haven't seen a whole lot of front-wave treatment performed on these things yet (aside from foam-rolling), so wondering if there's potential there. Seems the majority of folks treat the backwave, so maybe there's something there.
> 
> Used to have a copy of the Woofer Cookbook in a past life. I'll have to grab another copy before I join that party.
> 
> Any major lessons learned that you wish you could relay to a younger version of you?


You have dedicated thread for DIY buds. Also in my inventory, you can find some mods that can be useful, I hope so


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Also, you will probably put one driver (the best one) and forget about the rest. Problem is because they are not exactley the same SQ but different signature.


Yup, this is a bit of a problem with configurable transducers. It might feel like you are spending money on something you wont use because you are only sticking to one configuration.

Although its hard to beat them in versatility and therefore they are a lot safer to recommend, since you can customize it to your personal preferences more.








Although I wonder if changing those drivers in those DIY smabats will actually make that big of a difference like filters for iems. Or if they are more like switches in iems (minor differences).


----------



## furyossa (Jul 8, 2021)

Nice BG illustration you have there   I like it


----------



## furyossa (Jul 8, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Although I wonder if changing those drivers in those DIY smabats will actually make that big of a difference like filters for iems. Or if they are more like switches in iems (minor differences).


By changing DIY drivers, you will get many more different sound signatures because each driver is unique, probably much different variants than with LZ A7.
But the problem is that all these drivers don't have the same SQ as LZ IEM where u use same driver with different filters


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> By changing DIY drivers, you will get many more different sound signatures because each driver is unique, probably much different variants than in LZ A7.
> But the problem is that all these drivers don't have the same SQ as LZ IEM where u use same driver with different filters


Yeah, the quality will be more inconsistent along with having different tuning. So the difference between a good config and a bad config can be pretty big.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah, the quality will be more inconsistent along with having different tuning. So the difference between a good config and a bad config can be pretty big.


Exactly. For Sambat driver lineup, for example, they had to choose a quality driver and focus on tuning it. Versions with different impedance could also be made, and the purpose of the modular system would be to use other DIY drivers as well.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

furyossa said:


> Exactly. For Sambat driver lineup, for example, they had to choose a quality driver and focus on tuning it. Versions with different impedance could also be made, and the purpose of the modular system would be to use other DIY drivers as well.


I'm hoping the connector they use for their drivers is a COTS part as well; if that's the case, then there's going to be a lot of potential driver variety.


----------



## n00b (Jul 8, 2021)

i shouldnt have gotten the x6 and the smabat m2s pro at the same time. i listened to the x6 for maybe 2 songs just to see what the fuss is about and then swapped to the m2s pro and havent looked back.

no initial impressions other than the m2s pro is an easy recommendation. i even went ahead and ordered the st10s gold drivers to see how they do.

i would say the m2s pro makes the ebx21 obsolete. i think thats a bold yet fair assessment given the price point.

updated initial personal rankings:

moondrop chaconne ≥ smabat m2s pro > nicehck ebx21 > nicehck me80 = yincrow x6.

I don't know where to put the FiiO EM5. It's technically leagues ahead of the x6 but its tonality is so weird to me I find it less enjoyable than the X6.

Chaconne better for more acoustic/female vocals, M2S Pro for more bassy genres or male vocals. I do think the Chaconne's female vocal/treble performance is better than the M2S Pro's male vocals/bass, as in, the Chaconne's upper mid/treble really stands out, whereas the M2s Pro (in stock config)'s low end is good but not double-take worthy impressive. For more perspective, the FiiO EM5 low end gave me that double take like the Chaconne's treble did.

The M2S Pro bass is basically what I was hoping for from trying all these other buds coming from the fairly bright/neutral EBX21.  I imagine it is similar to: EBX21 : Blessing 2 :: M2S Pro : Blessing 2 Dusk.

Will update in several weeks when I get the ST10s gold drivers which are supposedly even bassier. I am curious about the super one driver but not itching to upgrade at the moment.


----------



## RikudouGoku

n00b said:


> i shouldnt have gotten the x6 and the smabat m2s pro at the same time. i listened to the x6 for maybe 2 songs just to see what the fuss is about and then swapped to the m2s pro and havent looked back.
> 
> no initial impressions other than the m2s pro is an easy recommendation. i even went ahead and ordered the st10s gold drivers to see how they do.
> 
> ...


Glad you are enjoying it. 

(no need to get the super one driver though...)


----------



## Into The Light5

Finally arrived
Might as well do unboxing video, also the fastest shipment i experience from aliexpress free shipping.


----------



## Ronion (Jul 9, 2021)

I bought the ST-10 driver too And it’s made its way to America.  I don’t have it yet, but it won’t be long.  The Super One (or “Noe” as the misspell it in various places) driver is off of my list based on Rikodougoku’s review.  I am glad he gave the M2s pro such high marks.  It cool to have a top tier ear bud for the price of a nice dinner with the wife.  Maybe it’s not the Cachonne, but it has its own charm(s).  The Ear Buds Anonymous one impressed me as well.  Tonally speaking, the X6 is still my pick as of the moment.  It may not have the most detail, but it’s not horrible and it costs about the same as a Starbucks sandwich.


----------



## furyossa (Jul 9, 2021)

Ronion said:


> I bought the ST-10 driver too And it’s made its way to America.  I don’t have it yet, but it won’t be long.  *The Super One (or “Noe” as the misspell it in various places)* diver is off of my list based on Rikodougoku’s review.  I am glad he gave the M2s pro such high marks.  It cool to have a top tier ear bud for the price of a nice dinner with the wife.  Maybe it’s not the Cachonne, but it has its own charm(s).  The Ear Buds Anonymous one impressed me as well.  Tonally speaking, the X6 is still my pick as of the moment.  It may not have the most detail, but it’s not horrible and it costs about the same as a Starbucks sandwich.


If @RikudouGoku gave the Smabad Super's "green light"🟢, then the name will be *Super* *ON*e, but with ''red light"🔴 we can call them *Super* *NO*e.
So no more misspell for this pair.


----------



## Ronion

Holy mackerel!  I just tried a set of shark fins—small ones from Venture Electronics—and wow does that give the M2s pro some deep bass!  They still fart on some rap, but it’s definitely a step up in fit stability And bass quantity.  I’m not going to change the cables on this unless I change the termination to 2.5 TRRS balanced.  I’ll be able to play frisbee with the dog with no problem now.  I cut a little hole in the foam ear bud socks to fit the fin through.  These buds are easier to fit the shark fins on because you can just take them apart and do it and then put them back together.  Brilliant.  Now I wonder what the higher price drivers are going to do.  These are awesome!


----------



## Ronion

furyossa said:


> If @RikudouGoku gave the Smabad Super's "green light"🟢, then the name will be *Super* *ON*e, but with ''red light"🔴 we can call them *Super* *NO*e.
> So no more misspell for this pair.


Love it!


----------



## rprodrigues

sfrsfr said:


> I can compare Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0+ CE with Rosemary if it helps. The 1.0+ is more neutral tuned, and it is very good in my opinion. It also has the same cable as Rosemary, which is my favorite cable among cheaper buds.
> The Snow Lotus 2.5mm and 1.0+ have the same driver specs, probably only the cable is different.



I've just ordered the  Snow Lotus 1.0+ CE. At half the price of the 2.5mm version, it is indeed a no brainer.

Thank you for suggesting them.


----------



## assassin10000

My new (spare) set of 2021 K's LB w/mic showed up. 

Got them on burn in, probably won't give them a listen until sometime next week. Maybe compare vs my 2020 silver cable ones.


----------



## samandhi

Good evening folks. I have recently been living on the DX300 thread, and saw a few gents there with some pics of some fantastic buds hooked to the DX, and remembered my days way back, when I used them. I had forgotten how unique they sound (and fantastic also). Thus, here I am, after 3734 pages of reading (yes I did read them all)...  

I hadn't actually read this thread until after I ordered based on outside reviews, but now that I HAVE, I can see I will like the choices I have made. I have the Smabat M2s Pro on the way, as well as the ST-10s Gold. 

Question of another sort though; Does anyone know of an authorized dealer for Ucotech (Yucotech) in the US? They have a storefront on Amazon, and I ordered the ES-P1 a few days ago. Yesterday they cancelled the order and sent an email stating that the Post Office recommends that they don't send them because of COVID. Seems mighty weird to me, but whatever. If not, I will just wait. I have a couple new toys on the way either way.


----------



## sfrsfr

fonkepala said:


> Thanks for the very insightful info. Good to know that at least the seller is legit. As somewhat of an aside, so far I've only used my TG38SA with an el-cheapo basic 3.5mm mmcx cable that I probably got from an old pair of Tennmak Pro several years ago. But earlier today, I decided to cable roll and swapped to a 6 core Yinyuuu copper cable with 4.4 termination and then paired everything with the iFi Zen Dac. Wow, to say the sound signature of the TG38SA is an understatement. It now sounds more open and lively is the best way I could put it. Where it sounded muffled and heavily veiled before, it is now much clearer and I'm enjoying it very much. I'm not sure if this is because of running it balanced or if it's due to the cable swap, but if the latter, then I'm about to be a 'cable believer'.
> 
> 
> Can you describe sound of the Zen LL for me? Did you get it in 3.5mm or balanced? What source are you using?
> ...


The Zen LL is really tuned as a "sleeping bud", the focus is on timbre over resolution, with warm and smooth sound, safe high frequencies, emphasis on low mids. Also with the ultra comfortable shell it just calls to be used for late night relaxed listening.
I have the 3.5mm version and amping it with E1DA 9038D.

Btw. I'm currently doing a comparison of PT2021 365Ω, Zen LL and JCALLY EP09. I will post my impressions soon.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 10, 2021)

samandhi said:


> Good evening folks. I have recently been living on the DX300 thread, and saw a few gents there with some pics of some fantastic buds hooked to the DX, and remembered my days way back, when I used them. I had forgotten how unique they sound (and fantastic also). Thus, here I am, after 3734 pages of reading (yes I did read them all)...
> 
> I hadn't actually read this thread until after I ordered based on outside reviews, but now that I HAVE, I can see I will like the choices I have made. I have the Smabat M2s Pro on the way, as well as the ST-10s Gold.
> 
> Question of another sort though; Does anyone know of an authorized dealer for Ucotech (Yucotech) in the US? They have a storefront on Amazon, and I ordered the ES-P1 a few days ago. Yesterday they cancelled the order and sent an email stating that the Post Office recommends that they don't send them because of COVID. Seems mighty weird to me, but whatever. If not, I will just wait. I have a couple new toys on the way either way.


Welcome @samandhi! Yes, you have indeed made some solid (wise) purchases there for your initial foray into the realm of flatheads! In this particular case I would highly recommend that you order directly from Ucotech's on-line store especially if you are after the ES-P1 ( *here* ). You will need to call/email and arrange shipping with them but they do ship from South Korea.


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Welcome @samandhi! Yes, you have indeed made some solid (wise) purchases there for your initial foray into the realm of flatheads! In this particular case I would highly recommend that you order directly from Ucotech's on-line store especially if you are after the ES-P1 ( *here* ). You will need to call/email and arrange shipping with them but they do ship from South Korea.


Thank you! As I said earlier, I was in the DX300 thread, listening to my newly acquired iBasso IT07, and I saw those buds. Needless to say I was curious, and dug out my old school Apple Classic Earbuds (2nd gen), and forgot how they sounded. Now I'm not saying they sound the best, but even those have a presence about them that made me miss the experience. I got to looking and it appears that there have been some major inroads since the day of the iPod Video era. 

I will give it a shot. Thanks for the advice. I had seen their site before, but assumed it would be easier to order from Amazon?! Apparently not.


----------



## baskingshark

Have just received a review unit of the SMABAT M2S Pro.




The M2S Pro is the older brother of the M0, I've made a short post about the SMABAT M0 here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3702#post-16427874

Like the M0, the M2S Pro only comes with one default damper and driver. In the above M0 link are the graphs for how the various other modular dampers and drivers change the FR (ie you can finetune the sound signature to your heart's content). The aftermarket dampers/drivers are compatible across the M2S Pro and M0, and the drivers are kind of like lego modules where u can just click them in place, and no soldering is involved, unlike the original M2 Pro (non S).


The M2S Pro packaging, other than the earbuds, comes with a pouch, 1 set of donut foams, 1 set of full foams and a cable. This is the same as the younger sibiling M0's packaging, except the cable is different. The cable here in the M2S Pro is on the thinner side, is MMCX detachable, and it is perfectly usable sonic wise, and has minimal microphonics even when used cable down. Like other SMABAT series earbuds, this set can be worn cable down or over ears. The housing is light, comfortable and very ergonomic for me, but YMMV as we have different ear anatomies.

Using the stock driver/damper on the M2S Pro, this set is *neutral with a subbass boost*. The sub*bass* is more emphasized than the midbass, and the M2S Pro has quite good subbass extension, more than the average earbud in fact. Subbass extension is the usual achilles heel of earbuds that anti earbud folks will beat with a stick, but on the M2S Pro, the subbass is quite close to some IEMs in terms of extension and amount, but I think the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold still has more subbass amounts, have to do some A/B testing to confirm this later. The midbass is fast, good in texture, minimal midbass bleed. The *mids* are quite transparent and clean, there's a bit of spiciness at the upper mids region, some folks might find it veers to fatiguing territory with louder volumes (Fletcher Munson curve) or with poorly recorded material, but this allows vocals to shine thru. The *treble* is moderately extended, good microdetails, very slight sibilance, but no splashy cymbals that plague a lot of budget CHIFI.

*Technicalities* like soundstage, imaging, instrument separation, microdetails and clarity are really good on the M2S Pro. I will need to do A/B testing against other midfi and TOTL sets over the coming days to gauge. @RikudouGoku made a big claim that the M2S Pro is as good as the Yincrow RW-2000, and on first impressions, I think that is no hyperbole. Both the RW2000 and the M2S Pro are neutralish, but perhaps the RW2000 has less subbass, and a not so prominent upper mids region, so tonally they are slightly different, but they are not too far away in technicalities. If you consider that the RW2000 is much more expensive, then that is a feather in the cap for the M2S Pro.

*Timbral accuracy* for the M2S Pro is good, as we have to expect from most earbuds, it has great timbre for vocals and acoustic instruments.




*Million dollar question: How does the M0 compare to the M2S Pro?*
As discussed the modular dampers and drivers can be used interchangeably among the 2 siblings. Assuming we are comparing just the stock configurations of the M2S Pro to the M0, the M2S Pro has a thicker note weight and much more subbass extension/rumble than the younger brother M0. The M0 is more neutralish bright in tuning, with a lack of subbass, whereas the M2S Pro is a neutral set with subbass boost. Timbre on both sets are good, but the M2S Pro edges it in the technicalities department. I think those that want a thinner note weight and less bass can opt for the M0. Those that want better technicalities and a fuller sound with more subbass amounts can opt for the M2S Pro.

One other area to consider too is source. The M0 is easier to drive, compared to the M2S Pro (assuming stock drivers are used).

I think both M0 and M2S Pro are really bang for buck sets that are super competitive against other midfi gear, plus the modular aftermarket drivers/dampers can give lots of options to finetune the tuning (no pun intended). If gun to head and I have to only choose one set, I'll opt for the bigger brother M2S Pro as I like my subbass and my personal preference is for a thicker note weight. Of course the younger brother M0 is around half the price, but the only correct answer if you are in this headfi thread, is to get both.


----------



## sfrsfr

baskingshark said:


> Have just received a review unit of the SMABAT M2S Pro.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The questions from me are how does it compare to the ST10S and how does it sound with the 150Ω driver from ST10S Black Gold?


----------



## Ronion

I actually wonder what happens when you just switch the drivers between the M2s pro and the M0.  IOW, do the shells make a significant difference and would it be a better value to buy the cheap version and put the best driver in it?


----------



## baskingshark

sfrsfr said:


> The questions from me are how does it compare to the ST10S and how does it sound with the 150Ω driver from ST10S Black Gold?



I didn't buy the ST10S driver, but I will do some A/B comparisons with the ST10S Black Gold and report back later.




Ronion said:


> I actually wonder what happens when you just switch the drivers between the M2s pro and the M0.  IOW, do the shells make a significant difference and would it be a better value to buy the cheap version and put the best driver in it?



Yes you can ask our resident hands on DIY expert @furyossa . Shells will make a difference even with the same driver. For that matter, even the damping material, shell material, vent location, driver location, shell shape/size, nozzle diameter/length, all these can make a difference to the sound, even with the same driver used.

Implementation is the keyword here.


----------



## sfrsfr

sfrsfr said:


> The questions from me are how does it compare to the ST10S and how does it sound with the 150Ω driver from ST10S Black Gold?


Also is the shell for SMABAT M2S Pro the same as SMABAT M2 Pro?
The drivers appear to be the same....


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> Yes you can ask our resident hands on DIY expert @furyossa . Shells will make a difference even with the same driver. For that matter, even the damping material, shell material, vent location, driver location, shell shape/size, nozzle diameter/length, all these can make a difference to the sound, even with the same driver used.
> Implementation is the keyword here.


My comment here would be superfluous, you have already explained everything correctly 
BTW...thanks for great review.


----------



## Ronion

I’m sure shells make a difference, but how much between the 2 different driver in the cheaper shell and then the more expensive one: the one that comes with the M0 and the one that comes with the M2s pro.  There’s a show in America called some like ‘Wife Swap’.  I want to know how things get along in a driver swap.


----------



## furyossa (Jul 10, 2021)

Ronion said:


> I’m sure shells make a difference, but how much between the 2 different driver in the cheaper shell and then the more expensive one: the one that comes with the M0 and the one that comes with the M2s pro.  *There’s a show in America called some like ‘Wife Swap’.  I want to know how things get along in a driver swap.*


Just a quick comparison.
Wife (driver) will behave differently in other home (shell) with a new husband (vent system). If that husband is richer (complex vent sys.) they will probably have a better time (performance of the driver will be better), but wife will be the same (driver SQ will not change)


----------



## Ronion

Oh, and I forgot to add: for me these shark fins have made that sub bass boost impressive and tonight I actually made a curve to reduce it 10db under 20Hz just to clean it up under extreme circumstances.  I listen to a wide range of music and even though I love classical music and play classical piano, I’m also an aficionado of acoustic Blues and play guitar.  I even enjoy Okinawa Folk music and play the Sanshin…. Not necessarily well however lol.  Just saying we are definitely into IEM territory as far as stability and sound immersion is concerned but with the soundfield and tonality advantages of ear buds.  I’ve never heard IEMs that cost this little that compare in any respect.  Obviously I haven’t heard them all or even most, but these are definitely sweet and I want to do a shootout with them and my FDX1 which are generally considered a bargain at $250or perhaps the Moondrop Aria.  I can tell you already that these are far more useful in my life and the fact that I’m considering this says something about them.


----------



## Ronion (Jul 10, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Just a quick comparison.
> Wife (driver) will behave differently in other home (shell) with a new husband (vent system). If that husband is richer (complex vent sys.) they will probably have a better time (performance of the driver will be better), but wife will be the same (driver SQ will not change)


Brother, you come up with the best statements!  Love it—that very relatable.

I should say that I am hoping for a subjective comparison with the partners in question.  Just too see the degree of the disparity.


----------



## furyossa

Ronion said:


> Oh, and I forgot to add: for me these shark fins have made that sub bass boost impressive and tonight I actually made a curve to reduce it 10db under 20Hz just to clean it up under extreme circumstances.  I listen to a wide range of music and even though I love classical music and play classical piano, I’m also an aficionado of acoustic Blues and play guitar.  I even enjoy Okinawa Folk music and play the Sanshin…. Not necessarily well however lol.  Just saying we are definitely into IEM territory as far as stability and sound immersion is concerned but with the soundfield and tonality advantages of ear buds.  I’ve never heard IEMs that cost this little that compare in any respect.  Obviously I haven’t heard them all or even most, but these are definitely sweet and I want to do a shootout with them and my FDX1 which are generally considered a bargain at $250or perhaps the Moondrop Aria.  I can tell you already that these are far more useful in my life and the fact that I’m considering this says something about them.


Can you make some shots (front and side view) of the shell with shark fin?


----------



## Ronion

furyossa said:


> Can you make some shots (front and side view) of the shell with shark fin?


----------



## Ronion

Little different look:


----------



## furyossa

Yup Nicely done. 
Now you can go and play frisbee with your dog, but just don't let the dog throw the frisbee


----------



## Ronion

He always complains that he has to carry it back to me when he would rather just throw it: problem is, he doesn’t have thumbs.  

this is Watson with his favorite girlfriend Gracie


----------



## baskingshark (Jul 10, 2021)

sfrsfr said:


> Also is the shell for SMABAT M2S Pro the same as SMABAT M2 Pro?
> The drivers appear to be the same....



Yes actually the M2S Pro and M2 (non S) Pro appear to have the same shell externally. The vent location appears to be at the same location too.


The left earbud is the Non S (original M2 Pro). Right earbud with silverish cable is the M2S Pro.


Just that the Non S version is the very first pioneer of the modular swappable earbud driver idea. But unfortunately, the Non S version necessitated soldering skills, it didn't use the lego lock like design of the M0 and M2S Pro.

Interestingly, their drivers on paper appear to be similar (40 ohm impedance, FR 10 Hz - 22 kHz), but I think the damping inside is different, or perhaps the Non S uses one of the aftermarket dampers on sale. I tried setting the Non S version in the bassy config to mimick the subbass boost of the M2S Pro stock, and even so the Non S version is much easier to drive, and the Non S isn't as good in technicalities, with some midbass bleed.

Well unless you are very hands on, and have great soldering skills, I think if you wanna switch drivers on the fly, the M2S Pro is much more convenient to lock a new driver in than the Non S version. Plus the improved technicalities and better bass tightness makes the M2S Pro an improvement over the predecessor.





Ronion said:


> I’m sure shells make a difference, but how much between the 2 different driver in the cheaper shell and then the more expensive one: the one that comes with the M0 and the one that comes with the M2s pro.  There’s a show in America called some like ‘Wife Swap’.  I want to know how things get along in a driver swap.



Hmm for this query we will need to get the SMABAT ST10S driver and put it in both to compare. I will try to buy the ST10S driver at the next sale, for the sake of science!






sfrsfr said:


> The questions from me are how does it compare to the ST10S and how does it sound with the 150Ω driver from ST10S Black Gold?



Ok I just did a brief A/B comparison. As expected, the ST10S Black Gold (150 ohm) is harder to drive than the stock M2S Pro. ST10S Black Gold when properly powered, has deeper subbass extension and a tinge more midbass quantity (M2S Pro is no slouch in subbass extension for a earbud still). The increased midbass amounts in the Black Gold adds warmth to the lower mids and gives a thicker sound than the M2S Pro. In terms of technicalities of the mids/treble, I think the M2S Pro shades it slightly, assuming both are fed enough power.

I'll call them sidegrades, ST10S Black Gold is more suited for bassheads (if u have an amp). But M2S Pro is cheaper, and is easier to drive, and has customizable driver/damper options.


----------



## Ronion

I hope my Qudelix can drive the 150 ohm when it arrives without a balanced cable.  My only balanced cable has ear hooks which I don’t actually like with the M2s Pro


----------



## ian91 (Jul 10, 2021)

First impressions of the Yincrow X6 (via Shanling M8 + Cayin C9 (Tube, AB)): absolutely worth the price.

Four standout observations for me are


Bass - great extension way down low, great rumble and impact for an earbud, well balanced with the rest of the FR
Non-fatiguing signature - personally, I would want a little bit more treble extension and air, but then it wouldn't be such an easy listener and I couldn't massage my ears with high volume and that subbass
Technicalities - lovely stage with decent imaging, copes well without congestion or muddying
Timbre is great

Thanks for the recommendation @RikudouGoku 

Edit: Yay for pairing a £5 bud with a £3000 DAP/AMP. *facepalm*


----------



## 40760

ian91 said:


> First impressions of the Yincrow X6 (via Shanling M8 + Cayin C9 (Tube, AB)): absolutely worth the price.
> 
> Four standout observations for me are
> 
> ...



If it works... it works...


----------



## ian91

palestofwhite said:


> If it works... it works...



I'm just constantly stunned by the value proposition of this great world of earbuds. Slowly growing a well loved collection


----------



## ian91

Ronion said:


> He always complains that he has to carry it back to me when he would rather just throw it: problem is, he doesn’t have thumbs.
> 
> this is Watson with his favorite girlfriend Gracie



Watson is a beauty (so is Gracie!)


----------



## sfrsfr

baskingshark said:


> Yes actually the M2S Pro and M2 (non S) Pro appear to have the same shell externally. The vent location appears to be at the same location too.
> 
> 
> The left earbud is the Non S (original M2 Pro). Right earbud with silverish cable is the M2S Pro.
> ...


Smabat must have done some non-obvious magic touch to the M2S Pro !
We need to get hold of this magic power...


----------



## FranQL

ian91 said:


> I'm just constantly stunned by the value proposition of this great world of earbuds. Slowly growing a well loved collection



In that case when you try the TinGo TG-38s you won't know what to say ...


----------



## chinmie

baskingshark said:


> Have just received a review unit of the SMABAT M2S Pro.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 is that the silver ringed driver or the gold one? i saw one m2 pro being sold with the gold one, i assume it's the same driver as the ST10S gold?


----------



## baskingshark

chinmie said:


> is that the silver ringed driver or the gold one? i saw one m2 pro being sold with the gold one, i assume it's the same driver as the ST10S gold?



It may be the same one used in the SMABAT ST10S Black Silver, I'm not sure.

But the default M2 Pro driver doesn't sound like the 150 ohm ST10S Black Gold driver, that driver has the most subbass quantity and extension I've ever heard in a earbud.

The packaging of the M2 Pro and M2S Pro both say it is a 40 ohm driver that comes in the default packaging:



Spoiler: M2 (non S) Pro packaging, showing 40 ohm driver











Spoiler: M2S Pro packaging, showing 40 ohm driver









If I'm not mistaken, I think it is this driver that comes in the M2S Pro and M2 Pro in the default packaging:


----------



## fonkepala

sfrsfr said:


> The Zen LL is really tuned as a "sleeping bud", the focus is on timbre over resolution, with warm and smooth sound, safe high frequencies, emphasis on low mids. Also with the ultra comfortable shell it just calls to be used for late night relaxed listening.
> I have the 3.5mm version and amping it with E1DA 9038D.
> 
> Btw. I'm currently doing a comparison of PT2021 365Ω, Zen LL and JCALLY EP09. I will post my impressions soon.


Thanks for your insights on the Zen LL. Looking forward to your comparo.


----------



## n00b

Nice, another positive review of the M2S Pro. If you're reading this and on the fence, I think it's worth the buy without auditioning. Right now I just rotate between the Moondrop Chaconne which cost 7x more, and the M2S Pro. I know the M2s Pro will be a keeper for me -- I'm already shopping for a new cable lol


----------



## RikudouGoku

n00b said:


> Nice, another positive review of the M2S Pro. If you're reading this and on the fence, I think it's worth the buy without auditioning. Right now I just rotate between the Moondrop Chaconne which cost 7x more, and the M2S Pro. I know the M2s Pro will be a keeper for me -- I'm already shopping for a new cable lol


Check out XINHS cables.


----------



## n00b

RikudouGoku said:


> Check out XINHS cables.


i have a bunch! i think their terminators are ugly though, so i'm looking at openheart. i am more in the camp that cables are like 99% more for aesthetics and comfort than anything lol

on that note, to keep it earbud related, the M2s pro have basically no stem so you need a 'straight' MMCX connector to give it a 'stem' and fit your ear better. My Fiio cable that I got for the EBX21 (which has a stem) is too short/tight for the M2s pro to stay comfortable, unfortunately. but it gives me another excuse to make an aliexpress order


----------



## RikudouGoku

n00b said:


> i have a bunch! i think their terminators are ugly though, so i'm looking at openheart. i am more in the camp that cables are like 99% more for aesthetics and comfort than anything lol
> 
> on that note, to keep it earbud related, the M2s pro have basically no stem so you need a 'straight' MMCX connector to give it a 'stem' and fit your ear better. My Fiio cable that I got for the EBX21 (which has a stem) is too short/tight for the M2s pro to stay comfortable, unfortunately. but it gives me another excuse to make an aliexpress order


You can ask them to change the connectors if you dont like their stock.


----------



## ian91

Cross-posting my review for the OFC MX64 Special Tuning Edition from Blur earbuds:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blur-earbuds-lovers.884062/page-18#post-16449441

An absolute golden nugget from Master Wong.


----------



## fonkepala

ian91 said:


> Cross-posting my review for the OFC MX64 Special Tuning Edition from Blur earbuds:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blur-earbuds-lovers.884062/page-18#post-16449441
> 
> An absolute golden nugget from Master Wong.


I've shared the link to your review in one of my FB groups. Hope you don't mind. Excellent review, btw. Probably one of the best for earbuds that I've read so far.


----------



## ian91

fonkepala said:


> I've shared the link to your review in one of my FB groups. Hope you don't mind. Excellent review, btw. Probably one of the best for earbuds that I've read so far.



That's fine, and thankyou!


----------



## bcaulf17

Delete please!


----------



## Ronion

It would be awesome if other driver manufacturers would/could make drivers for the SMABAT M system.  To be honest though this 40ohm titanium variety is really close to perfection and SMABAT claims it’s not one of their better drivers.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> It would be awesome if other driver manufacturers would/could make drivers for the SMABAT M system.  To be honest though this 40ohm titanium variety is really close to perfection and SMABAT claims it’s not one of their better drivers.


It is obvious they believe that in the price they are asking for the Super One. 

I can't wait to hear a comparison between the M2s and the ST10s Gold?!


----------



## Ronion

You and me both brother.  It should be here soon!


----------



## samandhi

I still have a month (or more) to go! Dunno' if I can wait that long. I suppose I am no better than my kids around X-mas time... LOL


----------



## thesoundandthefury

Can anyone recommend me a >50ohm earbud to drive with LG G7 (quad dac)?
Preferences:
*relaxed sound with zero sibilance
*wide soundstage + clear separation

Open to anything between $20 - $200


----------



## jenkinsontherun

thesoundandthefury said:


> Can anyone recommend me a >50ohm earbud to drive with LG G7 (quad dac)?
> Preferences:
> *relaxed sound with zero sibilance
> *wide soundstage + clear separation
> ...


oh man, what a coincidence!  I was about to ask the exact same specifications!  When an audio-enthusiast listens to a lot of music, non-fatiguing is the first thing he looks for!

Hopefully I don't "ruin" your request, but I would like to place one for the community as well, but a lower budget, <100.

Perhaps, anything new that fits?


----------



## samandhi

@RikudouGoku has a pretty nifty database that you can look at to get a start. I can't be of much help because I am still awaiting my first ones (since more than a decade).

HERE


----------



## sfrsfr

thesoundandthefury said:


> Can anyone recommend me a >50ohm earbud to drive with LG G7 (quad dac)?
> Preferences:
> *relaxed sound with zero sibilance
> *wide soundstage + clear separation
> ...


Maybe VE Zen LL? I'm still evaluating the soundstage and separation though...


----------



## sfrsfr

A quick note about the JCALLY EP09. 
The sound is very good for the asking price. They have a very good resolution, quite good soundstage and separation, good fast bass response, though very little subbass, good highs and mids. The tuning is on the warmer side.

Tips: 1) If you find the sound strange/bad, try longer burn-in, 100+ hours. They seem to be still improving...
2) If you don't hear any bass, try thicker foams or double foams or fins.

TLDR: Don't give up on EP09 yet!


----------



## thefallenangelx

Anyone can compare M2s pro with st10s gold driver and a proper St10s gold?
M2s pro with st10s gold driver looks less expensive than a proper st10s gold…

i currently have an st10s silver and would like to upgrade to gold, in the cheapest way possible.

thanks


----------



## thesoundandthefury

sfrsfr said:


> Maybe VE Zen LL? I'm still evaluating the soundstage and separation though...


I like the look of the LL ... 
Can anyone compare it to the M1 pro (my current bud)?
Or compare it to the TO200/600 (other buds I'm comsidering)?


----------



## baskingshark (Jul 11, 2021)

thefallenangelx said:


> Anyone can compare M2s pro with st10s gold driver and a proper St10s gold?
> M2s pro with st10s gold driver looks less expensive than a proper st10s gold…
> 
> i currently have an st10s silver and would like to upgrade to gold, in the cheapest way possible.
> ...



I already made a post about the ST10S Black Gold versus stock M2S Pro yesterday: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3735#post-16448938 --> written in the last paragraph. They are sidegrades actually, so the M2S Pro isn't too far away from the ST10S Black Gold, and if you like the stock M2S Pro, perhaps you won't even need the ST10S Black Gold driver.


Don't have the Black Gold driver to put in the M2S Pro, but I'll try to buy one at the next sale.




thesoundandthefury said:


> Can anyone recommend me a >50ohm earbud to drive with LG G7 (quad dac)?
> Preferences:
> *relaxed sound with zero sibilance
> *wide soundstage + clear separation
> ...



Is there any particular reason why you want something > 50 ohm?


Anyways the *M2S Pro* in stock form is neutralish with a subbass boost, it does have a bit of a boosted upper mids area, I personally am not bothered by it, especially with full foams on, but perhaps some sensitive to that area may.

The *Yincrow RW-2000* is smoother in the upper mids than the M2S Pro, but it has less subbass and is also much more expensive. Both it and the M2S Pro have really good technical chops for a earbud.

The* FAAEAL Rosemary* is an L shaped bassy and warm set, zero sibilance but treble is dark, so there are some loss of microdetails and clarity. Also is 150 ohms so needs amping, sounds very meh from lower powered sources. I haven't tried the LG G7, so not sure if it can juice the Rosemary adequately.

@RikudouGoku 's favourite *Yincrow X6* must also be mentioned, if not lightning will strike! Great tonality and timbre, think of the BLON BL-03, but in IEM form. Not the best technicalities, upper mids and treble are relaxed.


----------



## furyossa (Jul 11, 2021)

thesoundandthefury said:


> Can anyone recommend me a >50ohm earbud to drive with LG G7 (quad dac)?
> Preferences:
> *relaxed sound with zero sibilance
> *wide soundstage + clear separation
> ...


If you are interested in that signature then maybe is better to test first cheaper model, and then "attack" this one https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/shoonth-esep-01ble.html


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> *Is there any particular reason why you want something > 50 ohm?*
> 
> 
> Anyways the *M2S Pro* in stock form is neutralish with a subbass boost, it does have a bit of a boosted upper mids area, I personally am not bothered by it, especially with full foams on, but perhaps some sensitive to that area may.
> ...


Only high impedance model (> 50ohm) will activate LG QuadDAC option


----------



## ian91

baskingshark said:


> I already made a post about the ST10S Black Gold versus stock M2S Pro yesterday: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3735#post-16448938
> 
> Check out the last paragraph.
> 
> ...



You always give great advice! Of the few earbuds I've heard the Rosemary is the most dark and what I'd consider an 'in bed' earbud, the X6 is the 'late evening' fun wind down. I can really up the volume on them and there's no sibilance in sight. I feel both are quite similar in staging in that its not bad, but this is just from memory.


----------



## samandhi

furyossa said:


> Only high impedance model (> 50ohm) will activate LG QuadDAC option


There are multiple ways to do this, but the easiest way to trick your LG into going into quad DAC mode with lower impedance phones is: HERE


----------



## furyossa (Jul 11, 2021)

samandhi said:


> There are multiple ways to do this, but the easiest way to trick your LG into going into quad DAC mode with lower impedance phones is: HERE


These works for me 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32892202826.html
or
https://www.amazon.com/FAAEAL-Conductor-Impedance-Cancelling-Professional/dp/B07FMGTBBL


----------



## sfrsfr

baskingshark said:


> I already made a post about the ST10S Black Gold versus stock M2S Pro yesterday: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3735#post-16448938
> 
> Check out the last paragraph.
> 
> ...


I will do a direct comparison of FAAEAL Rosemary and VE Zen LL.
I enjoy both of them...


----------



## samandhi

furyossa said:


> These works for me
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32892202826.html
> or
> https://www.amazon.com/FAAEAL-Conductor-Impedance-Cancelling-Professional/dp/B07FMGTBBL


Was going to say there are also passive adaptors that will work (probably better). Also, if you have removeable cables on the phones themselves, you can disconnect them, plug the cable into the phone (which will switch it to "aux mode", then plug the cable back into the phones. I saw all these tips at https://www.head-fi.org/threads/music-apps-tips-and-tricks-for-the-lg-v30.868978/.


----------



## baskingshark

samandhi said:


> There are multiple ways to do this, but the easiest way to trick your LG into going into quad DAC mode with lower impedance phones is: HERE



Ah, nice. I do a similar trick with the Tempotec Sonata HD Pro, by putting a 3.5 mm to 3.5 mm adapter to make it output at max 2V output all the time.





furyossa said:


> Only high impedance model (> 50ohm) will activate LG QuadDAC option



Ah ok thanks for the info, sorry have never used any LG phones before for music purposes. Heard they have a nice DAC inside, but I also heard they are winding down their phone DAC production, quite a pity.

How does the sound quality of these LG phone DACs compare with some budget DAPs or dongles?


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> Ah ok thanks for the info, sorry have never used any LG phones before for music purposes. Heard they have a nice DAC inside, but I also heard they are winding down their phone DAC production, quite a pity.
> 
> How does the sound quality of these LG phone DACs compare with some budget


Some info about LG Quad DAC, and bad news


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> How does the sound quality of these LG phone DACs compare with some budget DAPs or dongles?


I would say they are comparable to something like a budget DAP (remember you are still at the mercy of the components of the phone, the DAC is only part of it). 



baskingshark said:


> Ah, nice. I do a similar trick with the Tempotec Sonata HD Pro, by putting a 3.5 mm to 3.5 mm adapter to make it output at max 2V output all the time.


For the LG I would actually only recommend the passive method to put it into "aux mode" because the impedance adaptor actually makes your buds like a 200ohms setup (or whatever the adaptor is) and will change the FR curve (possibly for the worse). Though this could be a bit of a mod to try (albeit blind.... or would it be deaf?).


----------



## Ronion

Can’t believe that the best audio oriented phone is being laid to rest.  RIP ⚰️💔


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Can’t believe that the best audio oriented phone is being laid to rest.  RIP ⚰️💔


Seems like just when something gets good (or right), it goes away. Look at the Samsung Note 4 for instance?! It had removeable battery (but was still water proof), micro-SD card slot, IR blaster, headphone jack, etc... Fast forward to today, most of those things are gone (or you have to pay extra to have it) and yet the darned things cost much more. But I digress!


----------



## thesoundandthefury

I appreciate all the replies!


samandhi said:


> There are multiple ways to do this, but the easiest way to trick your LG into going into quad DAC mode with lower impedance phones is: HERE



I've heard of that trick - but I'm hoping to keep my everyday set up as minimal as possible, and focus on 50+ohm buds that won't require an extra dongle.
cheers though


sfrsfr said:


> I will do a direct comparison of FAAEAL Rosemary and VE Zen LL.
> I enjoy both of them...



looking forward to it!


----------



## furyossa

Ronion said:


> Can’t believe that the best audio oriented phone is being laid to rest.  RIP ⚰️💔





samandhi said:


> Seems like just when something gets good (or right), it goes away. Look at the Samsung Note 4 for instance?! It had removeable battery (but was still water proof), micro-SD card slot, IR blaster, headphone jack, etc... Fast forward to today, most of those things are gone (or you have to pay extra to have it) and yet the darned things cost much more. But I digress!


They struggle a lot several previous years with innovations. Audio was not a problem here. 
They can now focus on making DAP devices, but we will hardly see anything like that.


----------



## thefallenangelx

baskingshark said:


> I already made a post about the ST10S Black Gold versus stock M2S Pro yesterday: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3735#post-16448938 --> written in the last paragraph. They are sidegrades actually, so the M2S Pro isn't too far away from the ST10S Black Gold, and if you like the stock M2S Pro, perhaps you won't even need the ST10S Black Gold driver.
> 
> 
> Don't have the Black Gold driver to put in the M2S Pro, but I'll try to buy one at the next sale.
> ...


Thanks a lot! Do you also have chances to compare with st10s silver version as well?


----------



## baskingshark

thefallenangelx said:


> Thanks a lot! Do you also have chances to compare with st10s silver version as well?



Sorry I haven't tried the ST10S Black Silver.


----------



## thesoundandthefury

I think i'm gonna go with sfrsfr's suggestion and buy the Zen LL.

I'm a little confused by the cable options though... if I'm going to exclusively drive it with the LG G7 should I go for the 3.5 TRRS or 3.5 SE? Standard or SQL?


----------



## wskl

thesoundandthefury said:


> I think i'm gonna go with sfrsfr's suggestion and buy the Zen LL.
> 
> I'm a little confused by the cable options though... if I'm going to exclusively drive it with the LG G7 should I go for the 3.5 TRRS or 3.5 SE? Standard or SQL?



You should choose 3.5SE (single-ended), the TRRS option is for a balanced cable.

As for standard or SLQ, it's your choice but @Serge Bernamej has the SLQ version and he says it is his favorite earbud.  Not sure if anyone has both to compare.


----------



## sfrsfr

thesoundandthefury said:


> I think i'm gonna go with sfrsfr's suggestion and buy the Zen LL.
> 
> I'm a little confused by the cable options though... if I'm going to exclusively drive it with the LG G7 should I go for the 3.5 TRRS or 3.5 SE? Standard or SQL?


The comfort and tuning makes the Zen LL a great choice for long listening sessions. 
I find the cable of standard version to be of good quality though a little bit stiffer. I don't think the more expensive cable would change their sound noticeably.


----------



## ian91

sfrsfr said:


> The comfort and tuning makes the Zen LL a great choice for long listening sessions.
> I find the cable of standard version to be of good quality though a little bit stiffer. I don't think the more expensive cable would change their sound noticeably.



Looking forward to your Rosemary vs Zen LL comparison. The comfort aspect of the Zen really appeals to me.


----------



## FranQL

Ronion said:


> Can’t believe that the best audio oriented phone is being laid to rest.  RIP ⚰️💔



Sony continues to work on this aspect in each of its high-end models


----------



## thesoundandthefury

sfrsfr said:


> The comfort and tuning makes the Zen LL a great choice for long listening sessions.
> I find the cable of standard version to be of good quality though a little bit stiffer. I don't think the more expensive cable would change their sound noticeably.


How are distracting are the microphonics on the standard cable? I'm looking for something I can wear at work, doing woodworking stuff all day.


----------



## furyossa

thesoundandthefury said:


> How are distracting are the microphonics on the standard cable? I'm looking for something I can wear at work, doing woodworking stuff all day.


For that kind of work, I suggest to never use earbuds, especially if environmental noise i too loud.


----------



## thesoundandthefury

furyossa said:


> For that kind of work, I suggest to never use earbuds, especially if environmental noise i too loud.


maybe the term "woodworking" is a little too heavy: I work in picture framing, predominantly using hand tools. I like wearing earbuds so I can hear my colleagues easily.


----------



## furyossa (Jul 11, 2021)

thesoundandthefury said:


> maybe the term "woodworking" is a little too heavy: I work in picture framing, predominantly using hand tools. I like wearing earbuds so I can hear my colleagues easily.


Ok, then my suggestion for ShoonTH buds still stands. You will have nice fit and sound that you described earlier.
Also, here is my previous post


----------



## cqtek

Hello to all.

Here is my humble opinion on the Smabat M0. I haven't been able to test the new M2S Pro yet, because they haven't arrived yet. I know that this top model has very good reviews, but its little brother has captivated me a lot, even more when I have removed the damping grid and used a superior quality copper cable.
Now, it's just fantastic for the price.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-m0.25277/reviews#review-26250


----------



## sfrsfr

cqtek said:


> Hello to all.
> 
> Here is my humble opinion on the Smabat M0. I haven't been able to test the new M2S Pro yet, because they haven't arrived yet. I know that this top model has very good reviews, but its little brother has captivated me a lot, even more when I have removed the damping grid and used a superior quality copper cable.
> Now, it's just fantastic for the price.
> ...


Excellent review. Always great to see the mods. But...

Smabat, Smabat... did you make your current cheapest buds sound the best and the most expensive the worst?


----------



## RikudouGoku

sfrsfr said:


> Excellent review. Always great to see the mods. But...
> 
> Smabat, Smabat... did you make your current cheapest buds sound the best and the most expensive the worst?


In regards to the M2S Pro and the Super One, yes.....


----------



## cqtek

sfrsfr said:


> Excellent review. Always great to see the mods. But...
> 
> Smabat, Smabat... did you make your current cheapest buds sound the best and the most expensive the worst?


Cheap and good, in the end it's an advantage. As far as I'm concerned, let them keep making good earbuds at better prices.


----------



## baskingshark

sfrsfr said:


> Excellent review. Always great to see the mods. But...
> 
> Smabat, Smabat... did you make your current cheapest buds sound the best and the most expensive the worst?



Price doesn't correlate with sound quality in this hobby. It is a general rule of thumb that as you go up the ladder from budget -> midfi -> TOTL, there are generally improvements in sound fidelity, but we are talking about massive diminishing returns each time you jump up one rung in the ladder. But even TOTL gear has weaknesses, and I've tried a few more expensive sets that I felt were inferior to cheaper gear. The sweet spot of best price to performance ratio probably lies in the budget-midfi segment.

Good for us as consumers, no need to sell a kidney to have a small taste of audiophile heaven. More so for earbuds, which are generally much cheaper than IEMs and headphones in each price bracket.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Diminishing returns is a double edged sword....

Its good for those that dont want to spend that much, because the value at the budget realm (for buds at least) is excellent.

While it is bad for those wanting the best quality, they have to spend a lot of money to get those improvements.


----------



## sfrsfr

baskingshark said:


> Price doesn't correlate with sound quality in this hobby. It is a general rule of thumb that as you go up the ladder from budget -> midfi -> TOTL, there are generally improvements in sound fidelity, but we are talking about massive diminishing returns each time you jump up one rung in the ladder. But even TOTL gear has weaknesses, and I've tried a few more expensive sets that I felt were inferior to cheaper gear. The sweet spot of best price to performance ratio probably lies in the budget-midfi segment.
> 
> Good for us as consumers, no need to sell a kidney to have a small taste of audiophile heaven. More so for earbuds, which are generally much cheaper than IEMs and headphones in each price bracket.


So Smabat M0 landed right in the sweet spot.
Good, I like my kidneys.


----------



## sfrsfr (Jul 11, 2021)

I've just found a Smabat yt channel. Though if I understand it correctly it is the personal account of the Smabat founder/owner...
Everything you ever wanted to ask about Smabat modular system is here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuTQQDeOe3FYC5XvuX5Ex6Q/videos


----------



## RikudouGoku

....I am cursed by this damn addiction....


I bought the 1More H1707 (triple driver over ear headphones)...and now it is making me want their E1008.....


----------



## nymz

RikudouGoku said:


> ....I am cursed by this damn addiction....
> 
> 
> I bought the 1More H1707 (triple driver over ear headphones)...and now it is making me want their E1008.....



The technicalities are very good, but I think its the opposite of your prefered FR


----------



## RikudouGoku

nymz said:


> The technicalities are very good, but I think its the opposite of your prefered FR


Thanks for trying to stop me.


----------



## thesoundandthefury

furyossa said:


> Ok, then my suggestion for ShoonTH buds still stands. You will have nice fit and sound that you described earlier.
> Also, here is my previous post


Ok I'm really on the fence now...
_*
O lord of earbuds hear my Prayer; does someone have ShoonTH BLE and Zen LL to Compare? *_

(or a comparing either with m1pro would also help!)


----------



## nymz

RikudouGoku said:


> Thanks for trying to stop me.



They are hard to get nowadays. Let me know if you need my pair


----------



## Ronion

I’ve been listening to the M2s pro for days now in all sorts of situations.  I can’t imagine anyone thinking they are not great at twice the price.  My piano VSTs (virtual/digital pianos) have more detail in them than I knew.  These are things I’ve played for years with all sorts of gear.  I need to devise a tournament style headphone comparison that includes IEMs and open back cans with these things.  I’m totally sure these would win of the Buds I’ve got but I think it would be interesting to do a tournament.  Winner takes on the Aria, FDX1 and the HD650.


----------



## sfrsfr

thesoundandthefury said:


> Ok I'm really on the fence now...
> 
> _*O lord of earbuds hear my Prayer; does someone have ShoonTH BLE and Zen LL to Compare? *_
> 
> (or a comparing either with m1pro would also help!)


I will have the ShoonTH Esep-01Bl next week as well as the highly regarded LBBS, will compare them to Zen LL.


----------



## samandhi

sfrsfr said:


> I will have the ShoonTH Esep-01Bl next week as well as the highly regarded LBBS, will compare them to Zen LL.


Was going to say just get them both, but that would be what I would do... Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## thefallenangelx

RikudouGoku said:


> In regards to the M2S Pro and the Super One, yes.....


You mean m2s pro (maybe also with st10s gold driver) is worse than m0?


----------



## thesoundandthefury

To anyone who's interested.... *Lee's is in the LG club!!!*


----------



## WoodyLuvr

thesoundandthefury said:


> To anyone who's interested.... *Lee's is in the LG club!!!*


*@zhibli06 *Hey Lee we are going to have to report you to Huawei! They will be none too pleased with you  LOL!


----------



## SuperMAG (Jul 12, 2021)

Hi Guys, just want to confirm if this is original or fake because in the reviews the package has white box, and I bought from a new seller at a discount price ofr 45. So wanna comfirm before opening.


----------



## Ronion

Looks like mine and I bought it direct from SMABAT.


----------



## baskingshark

SuperMAG said:


> Hi Guys, just want to confirm if this is original or fake because in the reviews the package has white box, and I bought from a new seller at a discount price ofr 45. So wanna comfirm before opening.



For myself, the black packaging was just a sleeve. After you slide out the black sleeve, the actual box inside is white.


----------



## Ronion (Jul 12, 2021)

I should add that it’s just a black sleeve.  Underneath it’s white.

edit, serves me right to post while someone else around here is posting….  Now this post is useless lol.  Thanks BaskingShark!


----------



## SuperMAG

Alright thanks Guys, moment of truth.


----------



## SuperMAG

the driver on the right side not working, no sound there, only left side working, switched the cables, drivers, the problem is in the driver itself


----------



## baskingshark

SuperMAG said:


> the driver on the right side not working, no sound there, only left side working, switched the cables, drivers, the problem is in the driver itself



That's a big shame. You bought it from a third party seller? Not from the official SMABAT shop?

There's a last thing to check, sometimes for these screw on drivers, if you accidentally twist the shell and clamp on the wiring, it will cause sound cut out. Nothing to lose, but maybe try opening the shell and reattaching the driver (via the lock on mechanism) and screw it and ensure no wiring gets trapped when closing the shell.

Hope it gets sorted out, big pity that QC issues came about.


----------



## SuperMAG

Yes contacting the seller now, see what happens.


----------



## jeejack

baskingshark said:


> That's a big shame. You bought it from a third party seller? Not from the official SMABAT shop?
> 
> There's a last thing to check, sometimes for these screw on drivers, if you accidentally twist the shell and clamp on the wiring, it will cause sound cut out. Nothing to lose, but maybe try opening the shell and reattaching the driver (via the lock on mechanism) and screw it and ensure no wiring gets trapped when closing the shell.
> 
> Hope it gets sorted out, big pity that QC issues came about.


That's why M2pro is better. The wires from mmcx connectors are thinner.


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> For myself, the black packaging was just a sleeve. After you slide out the black sleeve, the actual box inside is white.


 It's fake  
Why would anyone make fake modules for Smabat. They are not expensive or rare. Also, they are not Sony or Senn's


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> That's why M2pro is better. The wires from mmcx connectors are thinner.


That's what I wanted to say


----------



## RikudouGoku

thefallenangelx said:


> You mean m2s pro (maybe also with st10s gold driver) is worse than m0?


I dont have them.





SuperMAG said:


> Hi Guys, just want to confirm if this is original or fake because in the reviews the package has white box, and I bought from a new seller at a discount price ofr 45. So wanna comfirm before opening.


mine doesnt look like that.....but wonder if thats because review units dont need the official packaging?
Its rare, but not the first time it would have happended to me...


----------



## baskingshark

furyossa said:


> It's fake
> Why would anyone make fake modules for Smabat. They are not expensive or rare. Also, they are not Sony or Senn's



Hey even the very cheap $7 USD Sony MH755 has fakes!


----------



## furyossa (Jul 12, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Hey even the very cheap $7 USD Sony MH755 has fakes!


Yes, but that is Sony and not Smabat. The price is not as important as the brand, ie the name


----------



## samandhi

furyossa said:


> It's fake
> Why would anyone make fake modules for Smabat. They are not expensive or rare. Also, they are not Sony or Senn's





baskingshark said:


> Hey even the very cheap $7 USD Sony MH755 has fakes!


I remember when the  Xioami Piston 2 was huge here (still have 2 pairs myself). They were just about the cheapest costing IEMs that were considered audiophile grade. They were something like $20. They were faked big time, and it was VERY hard to tell which one you got. The strange part is that whoever made the fakes went out of their way to make them as close to the originals as they could, only to sell them for $12. Point is that in China, they will fake anything, even if it seems to us like they couldn't possibly make any money doing it.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> mine doesnt look like that.....but wonder if thats because review units dont need the official packaging?
> Its rare, but not the first time it would have happended to me...


Review units in most cases has prototype (WIP) package, probably a few of them, and official release has final design which is the best looking package of these few


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Review units in most cases has prototype (WIP) package, probably a few of them, and official release has final design which is the best looking package of these few


Yeah, but I usually get the official packaging for most of my review units.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah, but I usually get the official packaging for most of my review units.


You get mostly final package design, the design they choose in the end, the most beautiful of all. 
You probably left a deep impression on them


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> Ah ok thanks for the info, sorry have never used any LG phones before for music purposes. Heard they have a nice DAC inside, but I also heard they are winding down their phone DAC production, quite a pity. How does the sound quality of these LG phone DACs compare with some budget DAPs or dongles?





furyossa said:


> Some info about LG Quad DAC, and bad news


LG left us, but something new is coming this summer, and it will be affordable.
*Verizon Adaptive Sound* software integration in upcoming smartphones. New Motorola One 5G UW Ace is the first for now. More info here.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

I have posted a *brief clarification message* over on the Blur Earbuds Lovers thread; thank you.


----------



## Ronion

SuperMAG said:


> the driver on the right side not working, no sound there, only left side working, switched the cables, drivers, the problem is in the driver itself


Sorry to hear that.  Contact the seller and hopefully convince them to just send you a working pair of drivers  These are worth having a working pair.  Worst case scenari, you just buy a working pair from SMABAT.  You’d still have less invested in your than I have in mine.  of course I’d probably just go ahead and buy the 150ohm version at that point, but you may have different ideas on that.  Sorry this happened.  I’m shocked, but in this day and age these things do happen.  QA/QC isn’t what it used to be it seems.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Ronion said:


> QA/QC isn’t what it used to be it seems.


Has Chi-fi QC ever been good? Doesnt seem like it to me tbh...


----------



## Ronion (Jul 12, 2021)

In truth though, I haven’t had any problems with it—though I’ve read about them—but the shipping…. Not fun


----------



## Ronion

AliExpress did just send me an email saying the my ear buds that have been in China for over 50 days since I paid for them might be my fault….


----------



## RikudouGoku

Seems like 7hz has a new earbud called the "Timeless", at 999 yuan it is around 150 usd. Looks like it has a replaceable cable.













Is that the piezo bud? The PISLO PXVV?


(source: https://weibo.com/ttarticle/p/show?id=2309404658200439029860)


----------



## Kumonomukou

RikudouGoku said:


> Seems like 7hz has a new earbud called the "Timeless", at 999 yuan it is around 150 usd. Looks like it has a replaceable cable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



7Hz Timeless look interesting out of bunch, simply because I rated separated, oversized dual driver set up since Rose days. The potential of having extra extended bass, and distinct characteristics like Masya & Mojito. 

Still need to see more reviews before putting more thoughts on them though. Gotta let ears be the judges. 😆


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> Has Chi-fi QC ever been good? Doesnt seem like it to me tbh...



QC for CHIFI is a crapshoot sometimes, but I've also had my fair share of QC problems for western/boutique brands (well the western gear are mostly made in China anyways).

The only thing is CHIFI is generally cheaper, so even in the worst case that a QC issue develops, it isn't as painful on the pocket. The issue is that sometimes their customer service is fly by night (if they even talk to you), and sending stuff back to China may be more expensive than the item itself!


----------



## zhibli06

WoodyLuvr said:


> *@zhibli06 *Hey Lee we are going to have to report you to Huawei! They will be none too pleased with you  LOL!


i own...pretty much all Hi-Fi phones...they are amazing for retro gaming....as i am sensitive to OLED PWM backlite 
the gold age of the hi-fi phone started with vivo actually...and meizu mx4 pro... has a very very very good screen...of course LG is probly better, but 
I personally perfer JDI to LG for panel....(for retro gaming), but if I am watching anime...I think LG is more vivid~

ohh this is head-fi..sorry.....soundwise.. i have V30 tested long ago...i should make a video about them somewhere down the line.

Cheers

Lee


----------



## samandhi

zhibli06 said:


> i own...pretty much all Hi-Fi phones...they are amazing for retro gaming....as i am sensitive to OLED PWM backlite
> the gold age of the hi-fi phone started with vivo actually...and meizu mx4 pro... has a very very very good screen...of course LG is probly better, but
> I personally perfer JDI to LG for panel....(for retro gaming), but if I am watching anime...I think LG is more vivid~
> 
> ...


Won't be long before ALL of the LGs are collector's items.


----------



## zhibli06

samandhi said:


> Won't be long before ALL of the LGs are collector's items.


gotta catch them all before that lol


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Seems like 7hz has a new earbud called the "Timeless", at 999 yuan it is around 150 usd. Looks like it has a replaceable cable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can't find any information re: the 7hz timeless. Do you have a link?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> I can't find any information re: the 7hz timeless. Do you have a link?


I have no other info other than the post you linked. All of the new products being shown have probably just released in china, so most likely its going to take a while before they get released internationally (if they even will be).


----------



## harryyeo

Does anyone know what's the nozzle size of M2s Pro and ST-10s? 
The original ST-10's size is tad of a squeeze for my ears so I'm wondering if the newer ones is the same size.


----------



## sfrsfr

Zen LL. I am impressed. 
This is much more than a sleeping bud. So far I did not find any weak area, everything is great with comfort and tuning being excellent.
The sound experience is really quite comparable to full sized headphones.
The Rosemary is unfortunately inferior in almost every area, though it is still good value for the price.

Will the LBBS be any match for the Zen LL? We will find out soon. Stay tuned.


----------



## fonkepala

sfrsfr said:


> Zen LL. I am impressed.
> This is much more than a sleeping bud. So far I did not find any weak area, everything is great with comfort and tuning being excellent.
> The sound experience is really quite comparable to full sized headphones.
> The Rosemary is unfortunately inferior in almost every area, though it is still good value for the price.
> ...


Great! Thanks for sharing your views of the Zen LL. How are the highs on the LL? Rolled off or well extended? Would you say the sound sig to be balanced, or warm tending towards dark?

Quite some talk of the LBBs recently. I might have to bust out mine just to revisit it. Pity the fit is very poor in my case.


----------



## rprodrigues

@sfrsfr Do you mean the SLQ version?


----------



## samandhi

harryyeo said:


> Does anyone know what's the nozzle size of M2s Pro and ST-10s?
> The original ST-10's size is tad of a squeeze for my ears so I'm wondering if the newer ones is the same size.


I can't find any specific information, but all three use the 15.4mm driver, so I have to assume they are all the same size. Take that with a grain of salt, because they could be different; it's really hard to tell just from a picture.


----------



## baskingshark

Aliexpress is having a sale now. I just bought a SMABAT ST10S 150 ohm driver, to try it on the M2S Pro and M0.

Now it's the waiting game for the long ride from China, will update when this driver comes. I do hope it can be almost as good as the original SMABAT ST10S Black Gold, but cheaper, since it just involves putting the driver in the M2S Pro shell.

Anyways, thanks to another helpful headfier, he put some Aliexpress coupon codes here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...the-first-post.692119/page-2126#post-16455018 
They can stack with store coupons so hope for big savings for everyone!!!


----------



## nymz (Jul 14, 2021)

My M2S Pro finally arrived. Gonna be listening to the for the rest of the day and will try to compare the Golden Driver (150ohm) vs the stock one (40ohm). So far I'm loving them. Already my favourite on my small and cheap collection for sure.


----------



## furyossa

nymz said:


> My M2S Pro finally arrived. Gonna be listening to the for the rest of the day and will try to compare the Golden Driver (150ohm) vs the stock one (40ohm). So far I'm loving them.* Already my favourite on my small and cheap collection for sure.*


I think this is just because of look


----------



## nymz

furyossa said:


> I think this is just because of look



Red X6 gang?


----------



## furyossa

nymz said:


> Red X6 gang?


Don't look at me, I don't have them, just support @RikudouGoku opinion


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Don't look at me, I don't have them, just support @RikudouGoku opinion


The Yincrowd is getting bigger and bigger.

Here is another iem user I managed to capture lol.



(from my discord server.)


----------



## nymz

Yeah, price performance on the X6 is one of the highest in the hobby. godlike


----------



## furyossa (Jul 14, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> The Yincrowd is getting bigger and bigger.
> 
> Here is another iem user I managed to capture lol.
> 
> (from my discord server.)


I'm not that easy probably because I'm not an IEM user. Anyway, I admire your persistence.


----------



## furyossa

nymz said:


> Yeah, price performance on the X6 is one of the highest in the hobby. godlike


There are many like that if we are looking value vs price, it all depends on your personal taste


----------



## n00b

nymz said:


> My M2S Pro finally arrived. Gonna be listening to the for the rest of the day and will try to compare the Golden Driver (150ohm) vs the stock one (40ohm). So far I'm loving them. Already my favourite on my small and cheap collection for sure.


the matching cable tho SHEEEEEeeeeesh
are you actually rocking them without foam or just for the photos?


----------



## furyossa

n00b said:


> the matching cable tho SHEEEEEeeeeesh
> are you actually rocking them without foam or just for the photos?


He just shows how good they look. Killer photo for sure


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

n00b said:


> the matching cable tho SHEEEEEeeeeesh
> are you actually rocking them without foam or just for the photos?


I assume that's _not _the stock cable, then. Any recommendations? Have a couple NICEHCK 16-core units, but would really like to find something thin and light without having to go full BaX. She's definitely photogenic.

M2s Pro are somewhere in transit. Got a shipping notice for the Monk Lite SPC 120ohm from VE. Now we play the waiting game.


----------



## sfrsfr

fonkepala said:


> Great! Thanks for sharing your views of the Zen LL. How are the highs on the LL? Rolled off or well extended? Would you say the sound sig to be balanced, or warm tending towards dark?
> 
> Quite some talk of the LBBs recently. I might have to bust out mine just to revisit it. Pity the fit is very poor in my case.


Good question. Highs on the Zen LL are well extended, though smooth and not harsh or sibilant even on high volume. 
The sound signature is rather balanced, somewhat warm, some people would call it analog sounding . I would not call it dark, and I define dark as rolled off highs with stronger low end emphasis.
Even the resolution is pretty good.
I would say it pairs superbly with E1DA 9038D, which has non-colored highly detailed output.



rprodrigues said:


> @sfrsfr Do you mean the SLQ version?


I have only the Standard version of Zen LL.


----------



## RikudouGoku

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I assume that's _not _the stock cable, then. Any recommendations? Have a couple NICEHCK 16-core units, but would really like to find something thin and light without having to go full BaX. She's definitely photogenic.
> 
> M2s Pro are somewhere in transit. Got a shipping notice for the Monk Lite SPC 120ohm from VE. Now we play the waiting game.


Nope, thats _my _cable built and sold by XINHS. (Cable A25 on my list)

Check out XINHS they got a ton of cables.


----------



## nymz

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I assume that's _not _the stock cable, then. Any recommendations? Have a couple NICEHCK 16-core units, but would really like to find something thin and light without having to go full BaX. She's definitely photogenic.
> 
> M2s Pro are somewhere in transit. Got a shipping notice for the Monk Lite SPC 120ohm from VE. Now we play the waiting game.



Yeah, it's not the stock cable. It's a 4.4m balanced cable I ordered custom form Xihns (got a 2 pin and a MMCX). All credits go to @RikudouGoku for the rec. You can see it on his list here (it's the A25).



furyossa said:


> ice, it all depends on your personal taste



Any recommendations? Trying to listen as much as I can, only got in the rabbit hole 1 month ago. Wanna try to experience as much as I can 



n00b said:


> are you actually rocking them without foam or just for the photos?



I usually prefer donut foams, but depends on the model. On X6 I use full foams (non-thick ones). Guess it's about my sound preferences. With the 150ohm driver I'm using full foam, with 40ohm i'm using donuts so far.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

RikudouGoku said:


> Nope, thats _my _cable built and sold by XINHS. (Cable A25 on my list)
> 
> Check out XINHS they got a ton of cables.


They're the OEM for NICEHCK, right? Thought I heard something in the past connecting the two. Their cables are quite nice; been eyeing some of the 4-core models myself. Good to know they're a smart choice.


----------



## RikudouGoku

miserybeforethemusic said:


> They're the OEM for NICEHCK, right? Thought I heard something in the past connecting the two. Their cables are quite nice; been eyeing some of the 4-core models myself. Good to know they're a smart choice.


Yeah, they are and the OEM for some other brands I believe.


----------



## Kumonomukou (Jul 14, 2021)

nymz said:


> Yeah, price performance on the X6 is one of the highest in the hobby. godlike



I'm gonna be the anti-hyper for this one. I listened Yincrow X6 for a few minutes then gave it straight to a family member, it was a bit of muddy sound as I recall. They might sound different with higher power, but that was my first impression. Granted I did like the color scheme. Ordered the red one with yellow cord.


----------



## furyossa

Just another amazing stuff by @ClieOS. Check out the latest masterpiece


----------



## furyossa

Kumonomukou said:


> I'm gonna be the anti-hyper for this one. I listened Yincrow X6 for a few minutes then gave it straight to a family member, it was a bit of muddy sound as I recall. They might sound different with higher power, but that was my first impression. Granted I did like the color scheme. Ordered the red one with yellow cord.


Don't make premature decisions, let them "work" for a few days. This is a recommendation for any model, not just the X6


----------



## chavez

RikudouGoku said:


> The Yincrowd is getting bigger and bigger.
> 
> Here is another iem user I managed to capture lol.
> 
> (from my discord server.)



Another one converted. Or at least introduced to the bud world 😁.


----------



## FranQL

Kumonomukou said:


> I'm gonna be the anti-hyper for this one. I listened Yincrow X6 for a few minutes then gave it straight to a family member, it was a bit of muddy sound as I recall. They might sound different with higher power, but that was my first impression. Granted I did like the color scheme. Ordered the red one with yellow cord.



I almost cried excitedly, Chuck Norris will come for you


----------



## sfrsfr

Now I need to hear the bigger bro of Zen LL, the Zen 2.0.
I will just leave it here:
limited offer Zen 2.0 SLQ + RAP5th
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002977099343.html


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

FranQL said:


> I almost cried excitedly, Chuck Norris will come for you


Chuck Norris doesn't come for you. The universe brings you to Chuck Norris.


----------



## furyossa

chavez said:


> Another one converted. Or at least introduced to the bud world 😁.


@RikudouGoku is like vampire🧛‍♂️. He likes to "bite" IEM users.
In this case they not need to drink blood but to listen X6 to achieve complete transformation


----------



## nymz

sfrsfr said:


> Now I need to hear the bigger bro of Zen LL, the Zen 2.0.
> I will just leave it here:
> limited offer Zen 2.0 SLQ + RAP5th
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002977099343.html



Mine is on the way!


----------



## rprodrigues

sfrsfr said:


> Good question. Highs on the Zen LL are well extended, though smooth and not harsh or sibilant even on high volume.
> The sound signature is rather balanced, somewhat warm, some people would call it analog sounding . I would not call it dark, and I define dark as rolled off highs with stronger low end emphasis.
> Even the resolution is pretty good.
> I would say it pairs superbly with E1DA 9038D, which has non-colored highly detailed output.
> ...



Thank you!

Do you have the Monk lite 120 Ohm as well?  If so, would you say the LL is an upgrade from the lite?

I will grab the zen LL if it has better high extension than the lite.


----------



## ian91 (Jul 14, 2021)

furyossa said:


> @RikudouGoku is like vampire🧛‍♂️. He likes to "bite" IEM users.
> In this case they not need to drink blood but to listen X6 to achieve complete transformation



The X6 is the perfect portal into this fun underworld!


----------



## sfrsfr

rprodrigues said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Do you have the Monk lite 120 Ohm as well?  If so, would you say the LL is an upgrade from the lite?
> 
> I will grab the zen LL if it has better high extension than the lite.


I don't have the Monk lite 120 ohm. 
I would say it is not a clear upgrade as they are from different product lines, Monk and Zen, with different tunings. I've noticed most people here dislike the Monk tuning, though apparently the Monk lite 120 ohm responds well to equalization.
I am completely satisfied with the Zen LL tuning, it really shines with classical music.


----------



## Ronion

I have the Monk Lite 120 ohm on the way—and it has been for 50-some-odd days.  Looks to be turning circles somewhere in China.  it‘s officially my last order from AliExpress.


----------



## nymz

Ronion said:


> I have the Monk Lite 120 ohm on the way—and it has been for 50-some-odd days.  Looks to be turning circles somewhere in China.  it‘s officially my last order from AliExpress.



Strange... Usually VE ships take around 10 days or less to get to me.


----------



## jogawag

nymz said:


> Strange... Usually VE ships take around 10 days or less to get to me.


10 days or less to get?
Have you purchased from veclan.com and selected Express (SF Grobal Registered)?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jogawag said:


> 10 days or less to get?
> Have you purchased from veclan.com and selected Express (SF Grobal Registered)?


That's the shipping option I selected for my Monk Lites and I ordered direct from VE. I'll let you know what ends up happening in terms of lead time.

They did mention that COVID continues to mess up transit times, so I wouldn't be surprised if they're having trouble reaching that 10-day lead.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Enablers. All of you...

Hoping the ear hook on that cable isn't pre-formed so they can be used with the M2s Pro. If not, guess they'll just stay with the IEMs. Couldn't pass on the price, assuming it is legit pure silver (original price suggests so, but this is AE we're talking about).


----------



## Ronion (Jul 14, 2021)

nymz said:


> Strange... Usually VE ships take around 10 days or less to get to me.


I haven’t had nearly that kind of luck from them(AE), but it’s usually been out of China within 10 days.  My fastest delivery from AE was 14 days and average has been 20.  VE put in the post about 30 hours after my order and have been very good about communicating with me.  AE on the other hand… they’re are saying that this might be my fault.  It’s definitely not an experience I want again regardless of outcome.

edit: I should add, I’m not sure if their suggestion is just them trying to come up with an excuse to keep my money or just poor translation services and/or cultural competence.  Either way, their communication needs serious work and they are a new level of poor communication performance for me.


----------



## nymz

I'm usually getting that times from aliexpress... 

I have a pair of monks incoming and they shipped on the 6th and getting delivered on friday. But some items I got from aliexpress are stuck for 1 month somewhere and i think it's thanks to the new vat laws....


----------



## RikudouGoku

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Enablers. All of you...
> 
> Hoping the ear hook on that cable isn't pre-formed so they can be used with the M2s Pro. If not, guess they'll just stay with the IEMs. Couldn't pass on the price, assuming it is legit pure silver (original price suggests so, but this is AE we're talking about).


Probably with ear hooks.


----------



## Ronion

Next VE I order will be from their website.  I wish they had more stuff available on Amazon in the USA.  I’ve had very good luck with shipping from SMABAT and Penon.  Both shipped fast, had EXCELLENT communication and tracking.  Penon actually blew my mind with how fast their communication through email was—under a minute.  Never had that level of service from any other company.  Maybe I just got lucky….  Nonetheless, that was impressive.


----------



## ian91

Quite a few purchases I've made from AE have been 1-2days til dispatch about 7-10 days to my doorstep. I typically spring for items with the '10 day delivery' icon. I think it varies heavily on the logistics route to your country, what countries it has to pass via if any etc. and obviously customs efficiency on arrival to your country.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

RikudouGoku said:


> Probably with ear hooks.


Wonder if it's pre-formed heat shrink and I can just cut it off. Doubt it'll be as easy as removing KZ's ear hooks :/

How's comfort using the M2s Pro around the ear?


----------



## RikudouGoku

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Wonder if it's pre-formed heat shrink and I can just cut it off. Doubt it'll be as easy as removing KZ's ear hooks :/
> 
> How's comfort using the M2s Pro around the ear?


You can just cut it off.

I cant use buds over ear.


----------



## furyossa (Jul 14, 2021)

nymz said:


> Any recommendations? Trying to listen as much as I can, only got in the rabbit hole 1 month ago. Wanna try to experience as much as I can


There a few types of users here on this thread, who ask for recommendation, I will name the two because the rest are not worth to mention for many reasons. First we have users who don't want collecting all kind of buds, what they really want is
one or two pairs which they are top level regardless of price. The second group consists of users who like to explore different models, of course with caution not to exceed a certain price range.
All in all, in this hobby, both groups share the same rabbit hole.
When it comes to recommendations, I don’t like to comment on which model is better and explain some special reason why is it so. What I can recommend to you are models that have a certain value in relation to price and which in my opinion deserve a place in everyone’s collection. You are required to research these models yourself and find what works best for you.

*#* The first model which exceeds its price is RY4S Plus, fun sounding buds which I recommend to everyone who entering this hobby.
*# *About Yincrow and Smabat buds, I don't think I should talk because you've probably seen them mentioned very often.
*#* FAAEAL has a very interesting offer also. The model that surprised me was Faeaal DaturaPro. This bud I only recommend if you don't mind to use EQ, without EQ you will be disappointed. Build quality is superb, but stock tuning is the only downside. This model use aluminum coated driver which have amazing potential for sound reproduction. With EQ correction by @Sam L you will get the buds which can compete with buds that cost over $100. He created compensation files for other buds also, and you can read the impression by others on his thread. This is the post for DaturaPro. I don't use EQ at all, but for this model it's worth a try. My top recommendation for the best value for the money / SQ.
Unfortunately, they are currently out of stock
*# *Toneking lineup are specific for its original shape of the shell which of course is not for everyone and one of the positive sides is that you have a large selection of different impedance, from 32 to 600 ohms.
*# *TY Hi-Z line up. You can find these buds on Penon Audio Store and this is the review for whole lineup.
*#* ShoonTH lineup is not so big like previous two brands, but it certainly deserves attention.
I haven't tried 150ohm models, but even the entry level model (ShoonTH ESEP-01BL) shows great potential.
The positive features of this model are: fast bass, clear mids, smooth treble, wide soundstage and above average imaging. More expensive versions have the same driver with added impedance resistor, and the cables are of much better quality.
*# *Tingo lineup are authentic in its own way. They are budget friendly and my suggestion would be to skip models like TC200, TC300, TC400 and pick TG-38s which I have already described here. There is another model TG-38SA, with MMCX connector, that can only be found on Taobao, and it comes in two versions (150ohm and 300ohm with silver or transparent shell). I hope that it will appear on Ali soon.
*#* "Hi-Fi End" or "HE" is a small lineup, only two models, HE150 (MX500 shell) and HE150Pro (metal funnel-shaped shell).
What is characteristic of these two models is above average sub-bass and huge 3D stage, IMHO the best that you can find in price range up to $50. Currently, HE150 can be found on Taobao, but I'm not sure for HE1500Pro.
I personally like more HE150, comfort and SQ wise.
*#* When I mention the price range up to $50, it is worth mentioning the model HiFi Boy Dream. By the way, this model appeared with a price of $90, but for $50, this is an excellent choice. I will leave 3 reviews which very nicely describe the characteristics of this model. #1 , #2 , #3.

BTW... I mention here only models in the price range $5-$150. Everything related to hi-end models, I would leave it to Mr. @RikudouGoku who has a little more experience in that field.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

furyossa said:


> There a few types of users here on this thread, who ask for recommendation, I will name the two because the rest are not worth to mention for many reasons. First we have users who don't want collecting all kind of buds, what they really want is
> one or two pairs which they are top level regardless of price. The second group consists of users who like to explore different models, of course with caution not to exceed a certain price range.
> All in all, in this hobby, both groups share the same rabbit hole.


And some of us float from one to the other. There's no way I _need _5 different sets of earbuds, but I will certainly _have_ them.


----------



## FranQL

miserybeforethemusic said:


> And some of us float from one to the other. There's no way I _need _5 different sets of earbuds, but I will certainly _have_ them.


And even if you swear and perjure that you will only buy a couple of them ... you will not comply, you will buy more ... quite a few more


----------



## furyossa (Jul 14, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> *And some of us float from one to the other*. There's no way I _need _5 different sets of earbuds, but I will certainly _have_ them.


That would be a topic for itself and by no means short in description


----------



## nymz

furyossa said:


> There a few types of users here on this thread, who ask for recommendation, I will name the two because the rest are not worth to mention for many reasons. First we have users who don't want collecting all kind of buds, what they really want is
> one or two pairs which they are top level regardless of price. The second group consists of users who like to explore different models, of course with caution not to exceed a certain price range.
> All in all, in this hobby, both groups share the same rabbit hole.
> When it comes to recommendations, I don’t like to comment on which model is better and explain some special reason why is it so. What I can recommend to you are models that have a certain value in relation to price and which in my opinion deserve a place in everyone’s collection. You are required to research these models yourself and find what works best for you.
> ...



Thanks alot for the depth list and for your time. Much more than I'd hope! I'm the type of guy trying to stack everything I can so I can get some idea of what sound signatures I like. In the future I wanna try stuff like Chacone, some Blurs, Ks Bells and ZE VEN 2.0 (got the SQC pack coming on my way, so this one will gone from the bucket list)

I have RY4S Plus (32ohm and 300ohm) stuck in NL's costums for a month.... But got'em! Also have X6 from Yincrow (red and gold baby!) but would love to try up RW-2000 from them. Smabat I'm good for now, since I got the M2S pro with 2 drivers, i'll be looking for new brands.

I'll search and put up a cart for this list, sounds amazing. Too bad I just made an order from Penon, or else I'd add the stuff you just rec'd....

Also just realized how deep in the hole I am.... I still blame @RikudouGoku for this...


----------



## furyossa

nymz said:


> Thanks alot for the depth list and for your time. Much more than I'd hope! I'm the type of guy trying to stack everything I can so I can get some idea of what sound signatures I like. In the future I wanna try stuff like Chacone, some Blurs, Ks Bells and ZE VEN 2.0 (got the SQC pack coming on my way, so this one will gone from the bucket list)
> 
> I have RY4S Plus (32ohm and 300ohm) stuck in NL's costums for a month.... But got'em! Also have X6 from Yincrow (red and gold baby!) but would love to try up RW-2000 from them. Smabat I'm good for now, since I got the M2S pro with 2 drivers, i'll be looking for new brands.
> 
> ...


First, I know you joke when you say you blame @RikudouGoku, but we are not people that you need to blame, because we don't make the decision for you what (or not) to buy. 
*2nd, don't rush, take your time with every pair, ENJOY.*
Do you really need to buy every pair to be happy? If yes, then you have definitely missed the hobby.
Reckless decisions just push you deeper and deeper into the abyss of the rabbit hole, and many think that shifting the blame onto another can pull them out of a bottomless pit. Sorry, but It doesn't work that way.
Don't get me wrong, this is not about you, and I hope you understand what I mean.


----------



## nymz

I know what you mean, don't worry  I was just joking because he inspired me to get into buds with his reviews, didn't told me to buy anything. I'll be the one to blame 

Yeah, I want to spend a lot of time with my new items since I haven't got much time now during the day. Busy season for finance/accouting firms atm. I'm going vacation next weekend and all I want is the beach, the sea, my DAP and my babies. Oh, it's gonna be awsome


----------



## furyossa (Jul 14, 2021)

nymz said:


> I know what you mean, don't worry  I was just joking because he inspired me to get into buds with his reviews, didn't told me to buy anything. I'll be the one to blame
> 
> Yeah, I want to spend a lot of time with my new items since I haven't got much time now during the day. Busy season for finance/accouting firms atm. I'm going vacation next weekend and *all I want is the beach, the sea, my DAP and my babies*. Oh, it's gonna be awsome


You're already mentally on the beach, only you haven't seen it yet ... and I can't wait to go on vacation


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

furyossa said:


> and I can't wait for the break from work


Break...work...I'm confused.

Curious about anybody's experience with Ucotech's other earbuds. I know their flagship seems to be a bit a darling here, but don't see much mentioned about the rest of the product line. Are there any standouts there?


----------



## furyossa

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Break...work...I'm confused.
> 
> Curious about anybody's experience with Ucotech's other earbuds. I know their flagship seems to be a bit a darling here, but don't see much mentioned about the rest of the product line. Are there any standouts there?


Sorry ... my bad English ... I was thinking of a vacation


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

furyossa said:


> Sorry ... my bad English ... I was thinking of a vacation


Hahaha it's not a language barrier, it's just part of the job description. Project schedules don't lend well to people taking time off. I am so overdue for a vacation that doesn't last more than the typical 3-day weekend...

Every time I put on a pair of buds/IEMs/headphones, _that's_ the closest I get. I'd say that's a good enough reason to consider this a hobby, no?


----------



## furyossa (Jul 14, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Hahaha it's not a language barrier, it's just part of the job description. Project schedules don't lend well to people taking time off. I am so overdue for a vacation that doesn't last more than the typical 3-day weekend...
> 
> *Every time I put on a pair of buds/IEMs/headphones, that's the closest I get. I'd say that's a good enough reason to consider this a hobby, no?*


What can I say, we share same opinion


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Hahaha it's not a language barrier, it's just part of the job description. Project schedules don't lend well to people taking time off. I am so overdue for a vacation that doesn't last more than the typical 3-day weekend...
> 
> Every time I put on a pair of buds/IEMs/headphones, _that's_ the closest I get. I'd say that's a good enough reason to consider this a hobby, no?


Then, I must be on vacation while I am working...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> Then, I must be on vacation while I am working...


Reframe this discussion and we all sound silly...

_I'm much happier when the music is playing in my head
_
Don't even care about the stigma. I wear it with pride


----------



## Alteria

Kumonomukou said:


> I'm gonna be the anti-hyper for this one. I listened Yincrow X6 for a few minutes then gave it straight to a family member, it was a bit of muddy sound as I recall. They might sound different with higher power, but that was my first impression. Granted I did like the color scheme. Ordered the red one with yellow cord.



Yeah, I like how much bass it has but on certain songs it does sound a bit muddy compared to the NiceHCK MX500. Like when I was playing Apex could easily hear the difference between those two on some guns. Sadly the left side of my MX500 stopped working so using the X6 for now and I'm still enjoying it regardless. Ordered the Fengru EMX500 to see if they're actually the same lol


----------



## samandhi

Hmm my translator is not working correctly on Aliexpress. From the comments section of the ST10s:



> As wireless work?
> No, but they can be a p**sy play.


Whoops!


----------



## Ronion

Does anyone know why US Customs are holding on to my 150ohm SMABAT drivers for so long?  Do they not understand how much I am anticipating their arrival?!?!  I’m trying to take my recent shipping woes as an opportunity to practice patience, but I’m officially an ear bud afficio ado, not a Shaolin Monk!


----------



## nymz

Ronion said:


> Does anyone know why US Customs are holding on to my 150ohm SMABAT drivers for so long?  Do they not understand how much I am anticipating their arrival?!?!  I’m trying to take my recent shipping woes as an opportunity to practice patience, but I’m officially an ear bud afficio ado, not a Shaolin Monk!



Looking forward for your impressions on the driver. From a quick listen yesterday, they seem slightly different than the stock ones. 

Slight less bass boosted, more balanced and better mids and treble. Still rumble a bit on sub bass. More detail for sure. I'd say they remind me more of open back headphones. Sound good so far!


----------



## sfrsfr

nymz said:


> Looking forward for your impressions on the driver. From a quick listen yesterday, they seem slightly different than the stock ones.
> 
> Slight less bass boosted, more balanced and better mids and treble. Still rumble a bit on sub bass. More detail for sure. I'd say they remind me more of open back headphones. Sound good so far!


I am quite interested in the 150 ohm Smabat driver, so will be happy to see more of your impressions of its sound in the M2S Pro shell.
And then your impressions of Zen 2.0 SQC... put against the M2S Pro.
I'm not pulling the trigger on the Zen 2.0 SQC limited offer yet as I am not interested in any traditional amp and have no information about the RA Plus 5th.


----------



## Ronion

I hope that’s the case!  These things are already blowing my mind.  I’m not kidding when I say my VST pianos sound more real now than ever with more detail and longer reverb tails.  I only wish my JDS Labs Atom had a bit more gradual taper to it.


----------



## FranQL

sfrsfr said:


> I'm not pulling the trigger on the Zen 2.0 SQC limited offer yet as I am not interested in any traditional amp and have no information about the RA Plus 5th.


I haven't seen specs, but I read somewhere that the DAC may be ES9018K2M, even though I can't find it now. If someone wants the ZEN 2.0, it is a good price for the combo ... if not, it may not be so interesting, it is not portable and they are similar to zishan finishes.


----------



## Сomrade

nymz said:


> but would love to try up RW-2000 from them.


If you buy it, you will have to forget about other headphones.


Ronion said:


> Does anyone know why US Customs are holding on to my 150ohm SMABAT drivers for so long?


Customs listens to them with music and enjoys, and does not want to say goodbye to them.


----------



## nymz

FranQL said:


> I haven't seen specs, but I read somewhere that the DAC may be ES9018K2M, even though I can't find it now. If someone wants the ZEN 2.0, it is a good price for the combo ... if not, it may not be so interesting, it is not portable and they are similar to zishan finishes.



I got the deal because I want the Zen 2.0. AMP/Warp Core is just a bonus! Still, curious to see how it sounds.

Lee told me: "the rap5 is new and slightly better than the older ones"


----------



## nymz

Сomrade said:


> If you buy it, you will have to forget about other headphones.



Now I'm REALLY interested


----------



## FranQL

nymz said:


> I got the deal because I want the Zen 2.0. AMP/Warp Core is just a bonus! Still, curious to see how it sounds.
> 
> Lee told me: "the rap5 is new and slightly better than the older ones"


Yes, also Lee repeats several times that it will help you see how good their amplifiers are, so you will be satisfied.


----------



## wskl

nymz said:


> I got the deal because I want the Zen 2.0. AMP/Warp Core is just a bonus! Still, curious to see how it sounds.
> 
> Lee told me: "the rap5 is new and slightly better than the older ones"



A few years ago, I bought the RAP and Zen Lite bundle for $100, if I wanted the Warp Core, it would cost extra, maybe another $50.

So now, Zen 2.0 SLQ + RAP5 + Warp Core for $200, that is one hell of a deal.
Congrats


----------



## Сomrade (Jul 15, 2021)

nymz said:


> Now I'm REALLY interested


All I need.
Yincrow RW-2000+ Bluetooth FiiO LC-BT2,
Fiio FH7, 
Sennheiser HD25,
Player: FiiO · M11 Pro


----------



## furyossa

Сomrade said:


> All I need.
> Yincrow RW-2000+ Bluetooth FiiO LC-BT2,
> Fiio FH7,
> Sennheiser HD25,
> Player: FiiO · M11 Pro


The only thing I need from there is that light gray cable for HD25  Is it 4.4mm?


----------



## baskingshark (Jul 15, 2021)

I found something as ugly as the BLON BL-05S:



I present to you, the hospital green coloured JCally EP02. And this one is harder to conceal than the average silver/black earbud. The wife will surely know it is a new earbud.

https://shopee.sg/JCALLY-EP02-ClassicalFlat-Head-HiFi-Earbuds-MB-QUART-MB500-i.306787631.8361759108


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> I found something as ugly as the BLON BL-05S:
> I present to you, the *hospital green* coloured JCally EP02
> 
> https://shopee.sg/JCALLY-EP02-ClassicalFlat-Head-HiFi-Earbuds-MB-QUART-MB500-i.306787631.8361759108


    that's the right name for the color.


----------



## Сomrade (Jul 15, 2021)

I don't like it for Sennheiser HD25. He makes too loud bass. Brain massage. In second place high frequencies.
Счет


----------



## furyossa (Jul 15, 2021)

Сomrade said:


> Мне это не нравится для Sennheiser HD25. Он издает слишком громкие басы. На втором месте высокие частоты.
> Счет


It's too expensive. I will rather buy these 3
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002582223475.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002586949188.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002578216490.html

BTW are you flipped cups on HD25? I know that connectors are placed at the top? I have HD light model which have connectors placed at the bottom


----------



## Сomrade

furyossa said:


> Is iy 4.4mm?


Yes



furyossa said:


> I know that connectors are placed at the top?


Cups Easily turn over.


----------



## Chessnaudio

Ronion said:


> Does anyone know why US Customs are holding on to my 150ohm SMABAT drivers for so long?  Do they not understand how much I am anticipating their arrival?!?!  I’m trying to take my recent shipping woes as an opportunity to practice patience, but I’m officially an ear bud afficio ado, not a Shaolin Monk!


Same with my Earbuds Anonymous. Still in customs since June 24


----------



## furyossa

Chessnaudio said:


> Same with my Earbuds Anonymous. Still in customs since June 24


I think they are lazy now that the summer holidays are starting. My last pair of buds stood with them for 21 days


----------



## nymz

Guess who came earlier  one more toy to play on vacation!


----------



## Ronion

I can’t wait to hear your impression on those Zen vs. the SMABAT 150Ohm!  Even a brief post would be nice to read


----------



## Ronion

Well, I spoke with a rep at AliExpress and they were actually quite kind and promised to sort out the shipping issue…..  much better than their emails!  To my surprise, they sent me a $20 coupon For anything I want.  I’d like to get some opinions on how to spend the coupon: SMABAT M0, SMABAT drivers, Tingo tc38 (can’t find it on EA now), RY4+, or a different suggestion from a member of this thread?  I’m definitely not so pessimistic about AE now.  That is definitely a kind gesture on their part.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

All this talk about shipping delays encouraged me to place an order for some FAAEAL Snow-Lotus 1.0 from the 'Zon so I'd have something a little sooner. Have heard good things, so I look forward to running these through the gamut.

Any owner feedback on the 1.0? Ended up with the clear version; not sure if that makes a difference.


----------



## furyossa (Jul 15, 2021)

Ronion said:


> Well, I spoke with a rep at AliExpress and they were actually quite kind and promised to sort out the shipping issue…..  much better than their emails!  To my surprise, they sent me a $20 coupon For anything I want.  I’d like to get some opinions on how to spend the coupon: SMABAT M0, SMABAT drivers, *Tingo tc38 (can’t find it on EA now)*, RY4+, or a different suggestion from a member of this thread?  I’m definitely not so pessimistic about AE now.  That is definitely a kind gesture on their part.


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32435966900.html
this is original.
@FranQL has already asked Chitti if he will be able to procure a TG-38SA (150ohm) and (300ohm). 
We are still waiting for an answer. If you order TG-38s then ask him too for TG-38SA.


----------



## Ronion

Thanks Furyossa!  
believe it or not my 150Ohm drivers arrived today and they are installed (tighter fit that the 40). My initial impression is that these are going to need more power.  They sound flat next to the 40ohm.  Still good and I don’t want to jump to early conclusions.  The drivers probably need to loosen up, but I was loving to 40 all morning/afternoon…. It’s hard to not switch them back.


----------



## Ronion

Switching back, the 40 ohm definitely sound more dynamic, clean and spacious.  The 150ohm remind me of how the HD650 sound on lower power sources.  
I think I’ve got to get balanced cables with the gift coupon, but I’ll try them on my JDS Atom FIRST just to hear if that’s the issue.


----------



## nymz (Jul 15, 2021)

Ronion said:


> I can’t wait to hear your impression on those Zen vs. the SMABAT 150Ohm!  Even a brief post would be nice to read



Sure, but keep in mind 2 notes:

First, I only started using buds 1 month ago and know nothing about them compared to most of the people in this thread;
I only listened the Zens for half an hour tops and around 2hours for the M2S 150ohm.
With that said, here goes a small ramble.

Quality:

M2S hands down. These shells are built like a tank. Only thing I'm not sure about the interchangeable parts and wires - they seem too fragile.
Oh and also, replaceable MMCX cable... that's a winning point right there.

Confort and isolation:

I think it's pretty even on confort, only really depends on your ears, - will be personal prefence - but I still have to play more with the Zen. On the M2S I need to use them with the cable over the ear and not straight down, since I get better isolation this way. Zen isolation is very low since I'm using them naked.

Sound

First comparison that comes to mind is, for sure, open-back headphones. Zens sound exactly like that. Very clean, detailed, wide soundstage and a very balanced sound signature. Imaging is there, driver is fast and tamed (no harsh spikes, all smooth). They were tuned to be used without any type of foams, wich is fine by me, but might bother some. They are not easy to drive, I mind you.

When I first inserted them into my ears, I wasnt sure about the quality of the sound. As soon as I traded them for the M2S to compare, difference was clear. They are better in almost any way. With that said, theres only one thing the Zens cant compete: *bass quantity and rumble*.

M2S' bass is just so good. It rumbles, it punches. Its so fun. I find the stock driver to be more punchier, both in mid and sub bass, and for some reason, as better isolation on my ears. The golden driver is more balanced, but the bass is 80% of the stock ones, while opening in every other department, specially clarity and detail. Both drivers rumble a lot. Closest bud I have to IEMs and I use them with donut foams. This is the bass-head bud of the two in comparition.


*Tl;dr version:* To me, the zens are one or two steps above m2s with the golden driver (150ohm).  Which is fine because they cost 4x times more. Regarding bass, M2S is the clear winner and way easier to drive. You can't go wrong with any of them, as long as you pick your prefered signature, keeping in mind the price difference. I'd recommend the Golden driver tho in the M2S Pro and that gives you 2 close but different sounding buds on one shell (be carefull in the process).

Hope my brief compariation made some sense to you, will post more as soon as I get more time with them... It's been a bad and busy week.

Sources used: Shanling M3X (flac files) and Fiio BTR5 wired (Tidal). Both buds have been used on Balanced 4.4mm cables.

Tracks used for this comparition:

Daft Punk - Giorgio by Moroder
AC/DC - Let there be rock
Dire Straits - Sultans of Swing
Lana del Rey - Carmen
Adele - Daydreamer
Foo Fighters - Waiting on a War


----------



## gheagz07

Got my M2S Pro 40Ohms yesterday.
One of the driver is faulty.
Tried to switch the drivers left to right and this proved that one driver is faulty.
One thing I noticed is that if I insert the wire to the faulty driver a little too loose, the driver will work.
But once I tried to attach the driver to the housing with the loose wire connection, the sound will be gone. I think rotating the the driver when attaching it to the housing pushes the wires into the connector which then cuts off the sounds.
Problem is, I can't firmly attach the wire into the driver.
These M2s might sound great but I assume that I will not be the only one who will have this kind of issues with the connection.


----------



## nymz

gheagz07 said:


> Got my M2S Pro 40Ohms yesterday.
> One of the driver is faulty.
> Tried to switch the drivers left to right and this proved that one driver is faulty.
> One thing I noticed is that if I insert the wire to the faulty driver a little too loose, the driver will work.
> ...



Yeah, I don't think they'll last if you are the everyday switching type of guy... That's my only real issue with M2S Pro's quality.


----------



## furyossa

Ronion said:


> Thanks Furyossa!
> believe it or not my 150Ohm drivers arrived today and they are installed (tighter fit that the 40). My initial impression is that these are going to need more power.  They sound flat next to the 40ohm.  Still good and I don’t want to jump to early conclusions.  The drivers probably need to loosen up, but I was loving to 40 all morning/afternoon…. It’s hard to not switch them back.


Just let it break in for a few days. You need to consider they are different drivers and 150ohm version will scale better with powerful sources and in most cases will have better balance between frequencies. I just guess because I don't know specs of these drivers


----------



## furyossa

gheagz07 said:


> Got my M2S Pro 40Ohms yesterday.
> One of the driver is faulty.
> Tried to switch the drivers left to right and this proved that one driver is faulty.
> One thing I noticed is that if I insert the wire to the faulty driver a little too loose, the driver will work.
> ...





nymz said:


> Yeah, I don't think they'll last if you are the everyday switching type of guy... That's my only real issue with M2S Pro's quality.


This sound like a serious problem. So "s" version require more internal space because of new connector. If they had increased the shell, they would have had to increase the price of the model itself. Hmm ... OG M2 Pro don't have this problem?


----------



## gheagz07

furyossa said:


> This sound like a serious problem. So "s" version require more internal space because of new connector. If they had increased the shell, they would have had to increase the price of the model itself. Hmm ... OG M2 Pro don't have this problem?


If the OG M2 40ohm and the M2s 40ohm sounds exactly the same, I would have taken the soldering route.


----------



## RikudouGoku

gheagz07 said:


> If the OG M2 40ohm and the M2s 40ohm sounds exactly the same, I would have taken the soldering route.


it seems to be different according to @baskingshark https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3735#post-16448938


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> it seems to be different according to @baskingshark https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3735#post-16448938


If the shell size is the same, they can sound different only because of different internal structure. Probably someone has photos of inner cavity for both model?


----------



## gheagz07

furyossa said:


> If the shell size is the same, they can sound different only because of different internal structure. Probably someone has photos of inner cavity for both model?


Here is for the M2s version.


----------



## gheagz07

If I touch this side of the driver I felt grounded.


----------



## furyossa (Jul 15, 2021)

Ok. What we have here. *M2 Pro* vs *M2s Pro*

M2 Pro is completely different model then M2s Pro.
First inner cavity of M2 Pro is very shallow because of tuning module which allows the rear sound wave to pass through the very center into the rear chamber. Obviously, the M2 Pro model has a larger rear chamber than the M2s Pro model.
This difference in cavity size alone is enough to totally produce a different sound by using the same driver.
Shallow cavity will reflect back sound wave quicker and because of it we get intimate sound. Otherwise, when the depth is a little bigger, sound is more spacious.

M2s Pro had to use more depth due to the connector on the back of the driver so that the connector itself reduces the volume of free space inside the shell. Also, we see different position of the back rear chamber hole (non-center position).

I assume that M2/M2s Pro uses transmission line "like" system similar to ST-10 model, but I can see whether the length is the same on both models, and this will greatly affect the quality and quantity of low end.

Conclusion. Which model is better? It all depends on personal preference.
M2 Pro provides more options when it comes to different drivers (15.4mm) which is not the case with the M2s Pro model which only allows the use of drivers from the Smabat collection.
As for the sound itself, yes, there will be differences when you use the same driver with these two shells.
Now it all depends on your personal taste which model you choose.
I hope this helped a little to uncover the secret behind these two models


----------



## furyossa

gheagz07 said:


> If I touch this side of the driver I felt grounded.


Obviously, the new  M2s Pro connection system has a lot of flaws, and they should sit down at the drawing board and come up with a better solution for this.


----------



## baskingshark

Ronion said:


> Switching back, the 40 ohm definitely sound more dynamic, clean and spacious.  The 150ohm remind me of how the HD650 sound on lower power sources.
> I think I’ve got to get balanced cables with the gift coupon, but I’ll try them on my JDS Atom FIRST just to hear if that’s the issue.



Have u tried amping the 150 ohm driver. I bought it and it is on the way, but on the original smabat ST10S black gold 150 ohm driver, it surely needs amping.

Sounds very flat and meh when underpowered.


----------



## samandhi

I am curious if the Gold driver for the M2s Pro is the same as what is in the black/gold ST10s 150ohm?! It says on the product page that it is a custom driver.


----------



## baskingshark

samandhi said:


> I am curious if the Gold driver for the M2s Pro is the same as what is in the black/gold ST10s 150ohm?! It says on the product page that it is a custom driver.



Will need someone to open the shell of the ST10S black gold to verify that. Sorry I don't have much DIY skills to do this, and I don't dare to break open my black gold.


----------



## samandhi

Not a super big deal, as I will have the M2s Pro, and the ST10s. I was just curious for down the road, if I wanted to buy that driver for the M2s Pro. I don't think I will be cracking open the ST10s any time soon either!


----------



## Ronion

nymz said:


> Sure, but keep in mind 2 notes:
> 
> First, I only started using buds 1 month ago and know nothing about them compared to most of the people in this thread;
> I only listened the Zens for half an hour tops and around 2hours for the M2S 150ohm.
> ...


Makes perfect sense and it’s great to hear!  Listening to the 40 ohm M2s pro I’m think that it can’t get much better, but I’m glad to hear it’s possible.


----------



## sfrsfr (Jul 16, 2021)

nymz said:


> Sure, but keep in mind 2 notes:
> 
> First, I only started using buds 1 month ago and know nothing about them compared to most of the people in this thread;
> I only listened the Zens for half an hour tops and around 2hours for the M2S 150ohm.
> ...


The Zen 2.0 will surely perform even better with a more powerful source than the two you are currently using (both have 240mW @ 32Ohm (Bal), 2.8V amplitude).
Are you still waiting for the RA Plus5? I would be very interested to know more about this amp and your impression. There are just no tech specs for it...


----------



## Ronion

baskingshark said:


> Have u tried amping the 150 ohm driver. I bought it and it is on the way, but on the original smabat ST10S black gold 150 ohm driver, it surely needs amping.
> 
> Sounds very flat and meh when underpowered.


So I reinstalled it back in the M2s pro shell and hooked it up to may JDS Labs Atom and Bam!  This is as good as the 40 ohm driver.  Maybe a little bit better: MAYBE.   I’ll say they are definitely both very good and pretty similar at least when in the same shell.  The 150 now sounds like it might be more spacious and detailed but if it is, it doesn’t seem like it’s by a startling amount.  I’d like to switch the drivers back and forth to hear them back to back through this setup, but I am nervous that I may break something.  Nothing feels very fragile, but the 2 reports of broken connections fresh out of the box, I’m reluctant.  This driver is still very fresh so I don’t want anyone make any sweeping conclusions but this is very similar to my experience with the HD650: mo power, mo better.


----------



## nymz

sfrsfr said:


> The Zen 2.0 will surely perform even better with a more powerful source than the two you are currently using (both have 240mW @ 32Ohm (Bal), 2.8V amplitude).
> Are you still waiting for the RA Plus5? I would be very interested to know more about this amp and your impression. There are just no tech specs for it...



Yes! The ra5 will arrive later, as Im leaving for vacation tomorrow. But I think you're right. I'm pretty sure it will scale very well and probably open up the bass a little more.


----------



## axhng

The last of the ~7 SGD buds I bought from shopee, JieTu DIY EMX500 Bro. Just gonna call them the "Bros". lol. Anyway, the Bros are pretty warm sounding. More mid bass focused than sub bass, and has quite a bit of lower mids too. Bass has some texture and is decently tight, but sometimes can still sound a little bloated. Mids are not the most forward in the mix, but lower mids do have a decent amount of body. However, there is a peak at around 6 kHz, and while it does push brighter vocals forward, it can sound a little too much in certain tracks (especially in bass light, vocals centric tracks). So like the Monk plus and TC200 (new batch), mids are a mixed bag for me (though if i had to pick 1 amongst these 3 for the mids, i'll probably go with the Bros). Treble is very very polite, more so than the other 2, so cymbal, violins, tambourines, etc, can sound a little dulled. Technicalities and what not are all just okay for the price, nothing worth mentioning.

I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but I think the K's earphone K64S at just 9 SGD on Shopee is still more worth it. I like its cleaner sounding mid bass and lower mids, and it's more balanced sounding overall. Slightly better technicalities too. So overall, all 3 has been somewhat underwhelming to me. If I had to pick one, the Bros are probably the ones I would go for, but I would rather just save that 3 SGD and get the Iris Ancestor instead if I absolutely can't go any higher. While I'm still not the biggest fan of the warmer sound signature, I feel like at least there isn't anything that sounds too off to me in the mids? and technicalities isn't really that far off either. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Well, as usual, these are just my subjective opinions and YMMV. These are still cheap chifi earbuds after all and bad QC affecting the sound is a possibility.


----------



## nymz

My LBBS just arrived! Next week will be fun!


----------



## furyossa (Jul 16, 2021)

nymz said:


> My LBBS just arrived! Next week will be fun!


Why next week?
I see that you have decided to break the record in buying buds in one month


----------



## Ronion

Well I used the coupon for a cable, but until then it’s going to be my trusty FiiO A5.  Just got it charged up and that mule still kicks!  I feel like it’s an object from the glory days of porta-fi.  They shouldn’t have stopped making this thing And it’s never really been replaced.


----------



## furyossa (Jul 16, 2021)

Ronion said:


> Well I used the coupon for a cable, but until then it’s going to be my trusty FiiO A5.  Just got it charged up and that mule still kicks!  I feel like it’s an object from the glory days of porta-fi.  *They shouldn’t have stopped making this thing* And it’s never really been replaced.






This is not so "quick" these days.
I agree > *They shouldn’t have stopped making this thing*
They can add bigger battery (1.5K-2K mAh), Type-C,  2A fast charging and call it A5 Pro.


----------



## Ronion

This combination is sick: M2s Pro/A5

I almost can't imagine an ear bud experience that's better than this, but within the last 24hrs it's been stated that it exists and here I am content....


----------



## nymz

furyossa said:


> Why next week?
> I see that you have decided to break the record in buying buds in one month



Heheh, true. Next week I'll be on vacations with plenty of time to enjoy them all. Right now I'm stuck with loads for work just so I can go in peace...


----------



## furyossa (Jul 16, 2021)

nymz said:


> Heheh, true. Next week I'll be on vacations with plenty of time to enjoy them all. Right now I'm stuck with loads for work just so I can go in peace...


I guess you prepared one big suitcase only for earbuds


----------



## nymz

furyossa said:


> I guess you prepared one big suitcase only be for earbuds


crap. Got a link? I'm gonna need it


----------



## furyossa (Jul 16, 2021)

nymz said:


> crap. Got a link? I'm gonna need it


This one would be ideal for you, captain  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002533362902.html


----------



## samandhi

nymz said:


> Heheh, true. Next week I'll be on vacations with plenty of time to enjoy them all. Right now I'm stuck with loads for work just so I can go in peace...


I'm right there with ya'. Got ST10S, and M2s Pro, and Chaconne on the way. I would probably also have the ES-P1, and ES1003 Diva (red) on the way, if we could ever get our communications straight (myself and Ucotech). Those were actually the first two I looked at, and wanted to order, but couldn't get it worked out because of shipping restrictions. But I have confidence that I will at least finally get them ordered by this weekend.


----------



## samandhi (Jul 16, 2021)

OMG! Ya' gotta' love Amazon/Shenzhenaudio and DHL. I ordered the Chaconne on the 14th, and they shipped from China the same day. As of a few minutes ago, Amazon says it will be delivered by the 29th, and DHL tracking shows this coming Monday the 19th. BUT.....








Apparently DHL is the only ones that actually know it has been delivered. LOL

I haven't received anything from China (to USA) this fast since I ordered the Audiosense T800, which they paid the cost to have it overnighted because they were trying to build their name. Color me Shocked ya'll!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> OMG! Ya' gotta' love Amazon/Shenzhenaudio and DHL. I ordered the Chaconne on the 14th, and they shipped from China the same day. As of a few minutes ago, Amazon says it will be delivered by the 29th, and DHL tracking shows this coming Monday the 19th. BUT.....
> 
> 
> Apparently DHL is the only ones that actually know it has been delivered. LOL
> ...


It's about time! Man, I've been watching your luck lately. Nice to see you get a win like this!


----------



## samandhi

So far, I really like these alot, but I am sort of amazed that @RikudouGoku ranks them so highly, knowing how much you like your biz-ass...  They actually remind me a lot of the TinHifi P1, but with less bass, and a bit more resolving (definitely a much bigger soundstage).


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> It's about time! Man, I've been watching your luck lately. Nice to see you get a win like this!


Thanks! I think I was due.  heh I thought it was just the pizza guy knocking at the door. It would have been the fastest pizza delivery I have ever seen...


----------



## furyossa

samandhi said:


> Thanks! I think I was due.  heh I thought it was just the pizza guy knocking at the door. It would have been the fastest pizza delivery I have ever seen...


Congrats and I wish you a pleasant meal


----------



## RikudouGoku

samandhi said:


> So far, I really like these alot, but I am sort of amazed that @RikudouGoku ranks them so highly, knowing how much you like your biz-ass...  They actually remind me a lot of the TinHifi P1, but with less bass, and a bit more resolving (definitely a much bigger soundstage).


well, how could I not rank it that high when it makes the Tanchjim Oxygen (best iem for the same type of music) look like a joke.


----------



## samandhi

RikudouGoku said:


> well, how could I not rank it that high when it makes the Tanchjim Oxygen (best iem for the same type of music) look like a joke.


Glad you did, because I very nearly passed on them, but because of your(s) (and others) review I said what the heck. 



furyossa said:


> Congrats and I wish you a pleasant meal


Thanks very much! And, It was very pleasant (I don't get pizza very often, but my wife and I BOTH felt pretty lazy tonight)... 

There is really only one thing that I don't like about them so far. It took me over an hour, and ruined 3 pads trying to get the super slippery suckers on the buds... LOL


----------



## RikudouGoku

samandhi said:


> Glad you did, because I very nearly passed on them, but because of your(s) (and others) review I said what the heck.


Enjoy them for sure.


----------



## furyossa (Jul 16, 2021)

Did you try the glue  Just kidding. They have similar problem like Datura Pro.
If the silicone ring is not a problem due to the slightly increased diameter, then you can use foam with it. Then surely the foam will not slip.
Another solution. You can stick in these four places a small piece or medical tape (textile texture on the upper side creates friction) or double-sided adhesive tape, but this is not ideal.


----------



## samandhi

furyossa said:


> Did you try the glue  Just kidding. They have similar problem like Datura Pro.
> If the silicone ring is not a problem due to the slightly increased diameter, then you can use foam with it. Then surely the foam will not slip


LOL I have some silicones on the way, because I could tell by the pics that they might be an issue trying to get the foams on that all polished metal dome.. I normally prefer foam-less anyhow and I thought the silicone would help hold them in place. Ironically, they don't hold too badly in my medium-small ears without anything (though I haven't tried actually moving around yet lol).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Well, folks, my journey officially begins!


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Well, folks, my journey officially begins!


Since I got mine today, I would laugh if we both got our Smabats on the same day also.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> Since I got mine today, I would laugh if we both got our Smabats on the same day also.


Knowing our luck, I wouldn't be surprised. It averages out, right?




The last time I heard staging and space like this, I had on a set of Ether Flow Closed. Are you sure these are $10?

Obv no real subbass to speak of, but man I love how weightless they are in the ears. Granted, this isn't the only genre I listen to. Acoustic stuff is much more pleasant.

Will definitely have to get used to fit, though. IEMs are so foreign, in comparison.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Knowing our luck, I wouldn't be surprised. It averages out, right?
> 
> 
> The last time I heard staging and space like this, I had on a set of Ether Flow Closed. Are you sure these are $10?
> ...


No words have been more true! LOL

It will get better. Wait till that one song comes along that just hits you and you look around, swearing someone else made that noise... I honestly think that these little buds an compete with the famous HD800 for soundstaging (depending on the pair you get, but they are all good in that regard compared to IEMs). 

Now that you have those buds, check out that song I sent you from Tesla. It has some REALLY separated things happening to my ears. 

Is the cable 3.5mm SE? Was just curious because I chose to have 2.5mm for my buds. I have the litz 2.5mm to 3.5mm SE adaptor that came with my IT07 that I can use on anything that doesn't have 2.5mm balanced.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> Is the cable 3.5mm SE? Was just curious because I chose to have 2.5mm for my buds. I have the litz 2.5mm to 3.5mm SE adaptor that came with my IT07 that I can use on anything that doesn't have 2.5mm balanced.


Yep. Guess that's Amazon's default config. I think your DX300 will be up to the task, though, even in SE.


----------



## furyossa

samandhi said:


> No words have been more true! LOL
> 
> It will get better. *Wait till that one song comes along that just hits you and you look around, swearing someone else made that noise...* I honestly think that these little buds an compete with the famous HD800 for soundstaging (depending on the pair you get, but they are all good in that regard compared to IEMs).
> 
> ...


Are you maybe talking about TG-38s?  This happens every time after two year of using it, and they trick me every time.
They are sneaky little bastards


----------



## samandhi

furyossa said:


> Are you maybe talking about TG-38s?  This happens every time after two year of using it, and they trick me every time.
> They are sneaky little bastards


Now, see, I love that they can still do that after two years.  to sneaky lil' bastards....


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 17, 2021)

samandhi said:


> There is really only one thing that I don't like about them so far. It took me over an hour, and ruined 3 pads trying to get the super slippery suckers on the buds... LOL





samandhi said:


> LOL I have some silicones on the way, because I could tell by the pics that they might be an issue trying to get the foams on that all polished metal dome.. I normally prefer foam-less anyhow and I thought the silicone would help hold them in place. Ironically, they don't hold too badly in my medium-small ears without anything (though I haven't tried actually moving around yet lol).


Indeed! Metal shells are notorious for this but with practice and time one will acquire the required nimble-finger survival skill and will eventually become a breeze! *Stretching them out first on an easier bud helps. *But really it is but a simple finger exercise that you will learn.

Case in point, after my lil'Siamese wife recently relieved me of my Turandots (under great duress mind you; she is vicious) I was actually banking on (hoping) having them returned when she couldn't figure out the intricate dance required to replace the foams. The Turandots are probably one of the slipperiest shells out there but no such luck! She had that figured out in no time accompanied with a satisfied s@#$-eating grin on her face to boot! I will never see those beautiful earbuds again.............


----------



## samandhi (Jul 17, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Indeed! Metal shells are notorious for this but with practice and time one will acquire the required nimble-finger survival skill and will eventually become a breeze! Stretching them out first on an easier bud helps. But really it is simple a finger exercise that you will learn.
> 
> Case in point, after my lil'Siamese wife recently relieved me of my Turandots (under great duress mind you; she is vicious) I was actually banking on (hoping) having them returned when she couldn't figure out the intricate dance required to replace the foams. The Turandots are probably one of the slipperiest shells out there but no such luck! She had that figured out in no time accompanied with a satisfied crap-eating grin on her face to boot! I will never see those beautiful earbuds again.............


Funny you should mention that; after fumbling with them for a while (I got one on, then ruined 3 pads trying the other), my wife took them for about 3 minutes, and had it on flawlessly.... sheesh! 

Shame you lost those though, counting on her failing... Sorry to hear that you lost them, but I am sure she is happy as a lark?!


----------



## aspire5550

Hi guys, I have a smabat st10 with some random cut off issues on the mmcx. 
May I know if this is the famous issue with the first batch of the mmcx? 
Also, is it the earphone's connector issue or the cable issue? Will this issue be fixed if i change the cable? I don't have a spare mmcx cable, will proceed to order one if it can be fixed with a change of cable.

Thanks.


----------



## Carrow

aspire5550 said:


> Hi guys, I have a smabat st10 with some random cut off issues on the mmcx.
> May I know if this is the famous issue with the first batch of the mmcx?
> Also, is it the earphone's connector issue or the cable issue? Will this issue be fixed if i change the cable? I don't have a spare mmcx cable, will proceed to order one if it can be fixed with a change of cable.
> 
> Thanks.


Have you checked if it's the plug? Sent a pair of buds back lately for repair after a similar problem developed, thought it was the cable but maker said it turned out to be the plug! HTH


----------



## jogawag (Jul 17, 2021)

aspire5550 said:


> Hi guys, I have a smabat st10 with some random cut off issues on the mmcx.
> May I know if this is the famous issue with the first batch of the mmcx?
> Also, is it the earphone's connector issue or the cable issue? Will this issue be fixed if i change the cable? I don't have a spare mmcx cable, will proceed to order one if it can be fixed with a change of cable.
> 
> Thanks.


I also have a green first generation Smabat ST-10 that I sent back for repair due to faulty contact in the mmcx section.
I had lost the stock mmcx cable and I knew it was the jack side that was faulty because I swapped the left and right mmcx plugs and only the same jack side had faulty contact.
So I had the two green shells replaced by Smabat through the shop where I bought them.

What about your case?
If you don't know whether it's the plug or jack side of the mmcx that's faulty, it's best to send both the shell and the cable to the place of purchase and have them replace the bad part with Smabat.

The problem with the first green SmabatST-10 mmcx is well known, and since both its jack and plug of mmcx are fragile, both the shell and the cable will probably be replaced.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

There's something very humbling about this, knowing what I've plunked into IEMs to this point. When earbuds were basically the only option, I must have completely taken them for granted because these are just phenomenal. That feeling of getting them to sit just right in your ear and then *poof* they disappear and sound is just _there_. Amazing.

And you're telling me it gets _better_? Can't wait


----------



## chinmie

miserybeforethemusic said:


> There's something very humbling about this, knowing what I've plunked into IEMs to this point. When earbuds were basically the only option, I must have completely taken them for granted because these are just phenomenal. That feeling of getting them to sit just right in your ear and then *poof* they disappear and sound is just _there_. Amazing.
> 
> And you're telling me it gets _better_? Can't wait



in my personal opinion, IEMs would excel from the earbuds in noise blocking department only.
when the condition is right (dead quiet room) which makes the playing field equal, earbuds would outperform IEMs even in much higher price difference. 

in the case of higher ohm earbuds, give them a good amp, and it would stand toe to toe with the bigger over-ears headphones


----------



## RikudouGoku

chinmie said:


> in my personal opinion, IEMs would excel from the earbuds in noise blocking department only.
> when the condition is right (dead quiet room) which makes the playing field equal, earbuds would outperform IEMs even in much higher price difference.
> 
> in the case of higher ohm earbuds, give them a good amp, and it would stand toe to toe with the bigger over-ears headphones


Depends on what you are listening to. Acoustic/vocal music then yeah, buds do outperform iems. But for hip-hop, EDM, Trance or any more bass focused music its the opposite.


----------



## chinmie

RikudouGoku said:


> Depends on what you are listening to. Acoustic/vocal music then yeah, buds do outperform iems. But for hip-hop, EDM, Trance or any more bass focused music its the opposite.



also depends on the person's need/ expectations of how much bass should be available when listening to bass focused music. some people would enjoy them with lighter bass earphones just fine, especially when they want to listen to the music as a whole picture. 

when they want to feel the bass and just be immersed, yes, bass boosted IEMs would be nice, or just go all the way and use speaker+ subs


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jul 17, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Depends on what you are listening to. Acoustic/vocal music then yeah, buds do outperform iems. But for hip-hop, EDM, Trance or any more bass focused music its the opposite.


This is what I'm learning as well. These things would be good educational tools for people who want to learn the difference between bass and sub-bass. Classical, acoustic, and singer/songwriter stuff sounds great on the FAAEAL, but there is so much sub-bass content mixed into electronic music that I have to mentally switch modes and expect it to not be there with (these) earbuds. IEMs give me heaps of sub-bass, relatively speaking, but nowhere near the same sort of staging and in-between imaging of these buds.

They're just smashing timbre and technicalities in a really good way. It's a unique presentation, for sure, but one that merits the effort in trying to understand it.

Heck, I'm running the Snow Lotus completely foam-less and loving it while listening to some Beastie Boys, of all things. I just like that it doesn't yank me from my environment. Kinda like your life just gained a soundtrack and you're the one in control.


----------



## FranQL (Jul 17, 2021)

chinmie said:


> also depends on the person's need/ expectations of how much bass should be available when listening to bass focused music. some people would enjoy them with lighter bass earphones just fine, especially when they want to listen to the music as a whole picture.
> 
> when they want to feel the bass and just be immersed, yes, bass boosted IEMs would be nice, or just go all the way and use speaker+ subs



I do not know the needs that each one may have, what I can confirm is that my IEMs will be relegated to a closet (and there are a few).


----------



## Ronion

I’m not sure what impedance the earbuds anonymous buds are but wow do they improve with use of my FiiO A5!  I liked them to begin with but now I realize that they too need power.  Now I think it’s going to be a closer battle between them and the 150 ohm M2s pro.  I wish they had come with a balanced cable.   I was thinking that there’s nothing like the A5 available today, but I think iFi is making some powerful portable  amps as well.  I’m totally shocked with what both of these buds can do.  I’ve got to do a tournament of ear buds and then pit them up against some respected IEMs and cans.  Right now I think my buds will win it, but I haven’t listened to much else in a while.  My mind blew up last night listening to the EA buds on the FiiO A5 much like when I first heard the M2s pro through the FiiO.  I’ve had a rather intense fear of my battery dying on the FiiO.  My even older Monte Blanc only runs about 3-4 hours now.  I’ll be devastated when that happens to the A5.  Hopefully they make a new version or the iFi amps are their equivalents.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> I’m not sure what impedance the earbuds anonymous buds are but wow do they improve with use of my FiiO A5!  I liked them to begin with but now I realize that they too need power.  Now I think it’s going to be a closer battle between them and the 150 ohm M2s pro.  I wish they had come with a balanced cable.   I was thinking that there’s nothing like the A5 available today, but I think iFi is making some powerful portable  amps as well.  I’m totally shocked with what both of these buds can do.  I’ve got to do a tournament of ear buds and then pit them up against some respected IEMs and cans.  Right now I think my buds will win it, but I haven’t listened to much else in a while.  My mind blew up last night listening to the EA buds on the FiiO A5 much like when I first heard the M2s pro through the FiiO.  I’ve had a rather intense fear of my battery dying on the FiiO.  My even older Monte Blanc only runs about 3-4 hours now.  I’ll be devastated when that happens to the A5.  Hopefully they make a new version or the iFi amps are their equivalents.





> Earbuds Anonymous
> Tech Specs:
> _Driver Diameter: 15.4mm
> Driver Magnet: NdFeB N45
> ...


----------



## Ronion

That makes me surprised that a more powerful amp brings them to life so much, but it does.  Now I want to try all my buds with more power.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Ronion said:


> That makes me surprised that a more powerful amp brings them to life so much, but it does.  Now I want to try all my buds with more power.


That FAAEAL on the Monolith THX 788 sounds pretty huge, not going to lie. Have the LittleBear B4-X charging up because now I'm dying to know what tubes will do.


----------



## jogawag (Jul 17, 2021)

sfrsfr said:


> I will have the ShoonTH Esep-01Bl next week as well as the highly regarded LBBS, will compare them to Zen LL.


It's almost "next week".
I'm looking forward to your comparison of the ShoonTH Esep-01Bl, LBBS and Zen LL.


----------



## furyossa (Jul 17, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> That FAAEAL on the Monolith THX 788 sounds pretty huge, not going to lie. Have the LittleBear B4-X charging up because now I'm dying to know what tubes will do.


Tubes + buds = Dream team combo 🤯Prepare to be amazed!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

furyossa said:


> Tubes + buds = Dream team combo 🤯Prepare to be amazed!





...you weren't kidding. That bassline just sounds mean now. Such great texture. Still not harsh.

Oh! Found out my NiceHCK stuff cleared customs, so the X6 and Nameless should be here this coming week. Can't wait!


----------



## furyossa

miserybeforethemusic said:


> ...you weren't kidding. That bassline just sounds mean now. Such great texture. Still not harsh.
> 
> Oh! Found out my NiceHCK stuff cleared customs, so the X6 and Nameless should be here this coming week. Can't wait!


Yup. I see these two V5i's. They try to hide underneath buds but...


----------



## ian91

miserybeforethemusic said:


> There's something very humbling about this, knowing what I've plunked into IEMs to this point.





miserybeforethemusic said:


> Kinda like your life just gained a soundtrack and you're the one in control.



This resonates with my experience. I overlooked what good earbuds can offer. I've never been completely enamoured with in-ear devices due to the almost invasive fit. Earbuds sit comfortably in the ear, offering up the sound much more naturally and with excellent timbre. 

Subbass is definitely a weaker area, but with a good driver they can achieve really good midbass impact with enough body to slate my thirst for bass.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

furyossa said:


> Yup. I see these two V5i's. They try to hide underneath buds but...


Considered the V6 line, but figured I appreciated having a usable battery more. I owe Burson a writeup on these and owe it to them for providing the review sample in the first place. Definitely brings the value into that little amp. Gets a really strong signal from the 788, but I can hear some EMI from the amp being too close to the monitor. I'll have to find a better spot for it later...or just get the fireflies I've always lusted for...this hobby is dangerous.



ian91 said:


> This resonates with my experience. I overlooked what good earbuds can offer. I've never been completely enamoured with in-ear devices due to the almost invasive fit. Earbuds sit comfortably in the ear, offering up the sound much more naturally and with excellent timbre.
> 
> Subbass is definitely a weaker area, but with a good driver they can achieve really good midbass impact with enough body to slate my thirst for bass.


I'm hoping that I can see that sense of scale as I move up the options that are on their way. I'm surprised at how enjoyable this process has been so far.


----------



## furyossa

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Considered the V6 line, but figured I appreciated having a usable battery more. I owe Burson a writeup on these and owe it to them for providing the review sample in the first place. Definitely brings the value into that little amp. Gets a really strong signal from the 788, but I can hear some EMI from the amp being too close to the monitor. I'll have to find a better spot for it later...or just get the fireflies I've always lusted for...this hobby is dangerous.


I know all about it from your review for Etymotic EVO, which is BTW one of the best I have read so far, related to content.
You described very useful information there. I hope to see one for earbuds soon   
​


----------



## samandhi

furyossa said:


> I know all about it from your review for Etymotic EVO, which is BTW one of the best I have read so far, related to content.
> You described very useful information there. I hope to see one for earbuds soon
> ​


+1


----------



## baskingshark

Ronion said:


> That makes me surprised that a more powerful amp brings them to life so much, but it does.  Now I want to try all my buds with more power.



Since most earbuds are single DD transducers, yeah they generally scale better with amping. Not so much about volume from amping (since you can just boost the volume on a low powered source), but more than the amp gives better dynamics, soundstage, microdetails, perhaps tightness in the bass.

In contrast to some high sensitivity/low impedance multi BA type IEMs which may not improve significantly with amping. In fact, the FR may be skewed by too much power for those types.

Quite a few earbuds are also of higher impedance/lower sensitivity than traditional IEMs, so more power is generally better for em. Thing is, once you have heard your favourite earbud that is amped, it is very hard to unhear that and go back to a lower powered source haha.


----------



## Ronion

baskingshark said:


> Since most earbuds are single DD transducers, yeah they generally scale better with amping. Not so much about volume from amping (since you can just boost the volume on a low powered source), but more than the amp gives better dynamics, soundstage, microdetails, perhaps


This is exactly what I’ve been hearing!  And definitely:


baskingshark said:


> tightness in the bass.


----------



## Ronion

furyossa said:


> Tubes + buds = Dream team combo 🤯Prepare to be amazed!


My wallet hates you!  Personally though, I think you’re a pretty righteous dude.   Now I’ve gotta get a tube amp too.  I have to tell the wife that the A5 is going to die (and it will some day so it’s not a lie exactly).


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> My wallet hates you!  Personally though, I think you’re a pretty righteous dude.   Now I’ve gotta get a tube amp too.  *I have to tell the wife that the A5 is going to die (and it will some day so it’s not a lie exactly).*


I love the way you think!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Ronion said:


> My wallet hates you!  Personally though, I think you’re a pretty righteous dude.   Now I’ve gotta get a tube amp too.  I have to tell the wife that the A5 is going to die (and it will some day so it’s not a lie exactly).


Well there's at least one nod for the LittleBear B4-X. It'll run okay-ish on the stock OPAMPs, but don't really do justice at explaining why tubes make a difference in the chain. Adding those Burson OPAMPs and giving them time to bake in has made for a tremendous improvement. Think that's probably one of the most cost-effective ways to test the waters, at least.

Granted, that's a tube-fed circuit rather than a dedicated tube amplifier, but it's just a taste. Things can get really expensive from here if the bug bites.


----------



## baskingshark

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Well there's at least one nod for the LittleBear B4-X. It'll run okay-ish on the stock OPAMPs, but don't really do justice at explaining why tubes make a difference in the chain. Adding those Burson OPAMPs and giving them time to bake in has made for a tremendous improvement. Think that's probably one of the most cost-effective ways to test the waters, at least.
> 
> Granted, that's a tube-fed circuit rather than a dedicated tube amplifier, but it's just a taste. Things can get really expensive from here if the bug bites.



I've not tried any tube amps before, but how are they for maintenance wise? Like how often do we need to change the tubes, do they need to warm up before use?

I've also seen some hybrid tube-SS type amps, wonder how they compare to the true tube amps?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

baskingshark said:


> I've not tried any tube amps before, but how are they for maintenance wise? Like how often do we need to change the tubes, do they need to warm up before use?
> 
> I've also seen some hybrid tube-SS type amps, wonder how they compare to the true tube amps?


Wow, that's a great question! I probably only know about 1/4 of the answer in my experience, but I'd assume tube life is going to be somewhere between 5-7 years on these portable guys. Since they're hard-wired in, it's probably a run to fail thing, which was one of the reasons I didn't want to invest in it too heavily on the first purchase.

I would assume that a well-built tube amp would last longer than any of us here, so long as it was taken care of. Most of them are just blocks of metal or wood with sockets and a little circuitry; not many potential points of failure unless you start looking at some of the stuff that would have solid-state components integrated in.


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> I've not tried any tube amps before, but how are they for maintenance wise? Like how often do we need to change the tubes, do they need to warm up before use?
> 
> I've also seen some hybrid tube-SS type amps, wonder how they compare to the true tube amps?





miserybeforethemusic said:


> Wow, that's a great question! I probably only know about 1/4 of the answer in my experience, but I'd assume tube life is going to be somewhere between 5-7 years on these portable guys. Since they're hard-wired in, it's probably a run to fail thing, which was one of the reasons I didn't want to invest in it too heavily on the first purchase.
> 
> I would assume that a well-built tube amp would last longer than any of us here, so long as it was taken care of. Most of them are just blocks of metal or wood with sockets and a little circuitry; not many potential points of failure unless you start looking at some of the stuff that would have solid-state components integrated in.


Tubes are sort of like lightbulbs (really old school ones), and most of the best ones do require some warm-up, though some of the newest stuff is pretty much instant. As long as you don't leave the amp on all the time, or power cycle it 100 times a day, they should last a good while. As for maintenance, I don't really know of much maintenance that needs to be done, other than keep the system clean because dust is a great insulator, and can cause overheating (this is true with really any open style electronics). 

But, if you get one with full sized (common) tubes, be careful of that rabbit hole. You have heard of tip rolling? Well, tube rolling is a bit more expensive of a venture. There are still some tubes floating around out there from the early 1900's, and they can get pretty expensive, but they are also considered some of the best sounding tubes still available. Here is a great place to get your feet wet on tube rolling (even though this is for Little Dot, it is still relevant). 

I have heard that those hybrid SS/Tube amps are pretty amazing technology, but to hear an old timer tube amper talk, the more analog the tube amp, the better. I am not sure if this is true but here is a pretty good read on the differences, and how they may sound different in the end. Some argue that you can apply a "tube amp" filter on a SS amp and it sounds great, but those that are purists will argue that it is heresy. You be the judge.....  

BTW! sorry to be so off topic. How bout this? I finally heard back from Ucotech on ordering those ES-P1, and red ES1003 Diva. It only took 1 1/2 weeks to get to the point where I might get to START the order...  In the meantime, I am burning in the Chaconne, and will share my thoughts before long.. Hint: they are REALLY good!


----------



## samandhi

Here is a discussion on Head-Fi that is short, but has some pretty good info:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tube-amp-vs-solid-state-amp-vs-hybrid-amp.482283/page-2


----------



## aspire5550

Carrow said:


> Have you checked if it's the plug? Sent a pair of buds back lately for repair after a similar problem developed, thought it was the cable but maker said it turned out to be the plug! HTH


I haven't check. I do not have a spare mmcx cable and I didn't want to swap the cables and risk damaging it more.


jogawag said:


> I also have a green first generation Smabat ST-10 that I sent back for repair due to faulty contact in the mmcx section.
> I had lost the stock mmcx cable and I knew it was the jack side that was faulty because I swapped the left and right mmcx plugs and only the same jack side had faulty contact.
> So I had the two green shells replaced by Smabat through the shop where I bought them.
> 
> ...


Sad to know that the mmcx female connector on the earbud side might also be problematic. 
I do not know who's the seller as I've bought my original green st-10 2nd hand. 

Anyway, what's weird in my case is that the sound "cut-off" is just a split second, its just a few miliseconds where the sound will go off on the left side, sometimes the right side will have a tiny buzz and then both sides will immediately come back up and the sound plays as normal.

It is not the source as I've tried on multiple devices. and I've tried turning or moving the 3.5mm jack, moving the mmcx jack around but weren't able to reproduce. 
Usually if it is a case of mmcx issue, I would want to think the issue can be easily reproduced but unfortunately I was not able to reproduce it manually.


----------



## samandhi

aspire5550 said:


> I haven't check. I do not have a spare mmcx cable and I didn't want to swap the cables and risk damaging it more.
> 
> Sad to know that the mmcx female connector on the earbud side might also be problematic.
> I do not know who's the seller as I've bought my original green st-10 2nd hand.
> ...


Without more information it is JUST a guess; but from the fact that when the one has issues, then after that the second one does funky stuff, it sounds almost like a ground issue. It could be as you say an issue with both female MMXC connectors. 

If they are too loose in there it might also cause this, which can be fixed with a flat-head screwdriver (in most cases). Here  is a video and tutorial on how to fix that issue (if it is because it is loose).


----------



## samandhi

And here is one for the female connection.


----------



## aspire5550

samandhi said:


> Without more information it is JUST a guess; but from the fact that when the one has issues, then after that the second one does funky stuff, it sounds almost like a ground issue. It could be as you say an issue with both female MMXC connectors.
> 
> If they are too loose in there it might also cause this, which can be fixed with a flat-head screwdriver (in most cases). Here  is a video and tutorial on how to fix that issue (if it is because it is loose).



Did this to my left mmcx connector, it was much harder to push in the mmcx . But once i did, I can still spin around the earbud 360 degree easily. 
However, 30mins in, I haven't face the issue I mentioned. 

I'll observe for abit longer but hope this fixes the issue, thanks!


----------



## samandhi

aspire5550 said:


> Did this to my left mmcx connector, it was much harder to push in the mmcx . But once i did, I can still spin around the earbud 360 degree easily.
> However, 30mins in, I haven't face the issue I mentioned.
> 
> I'll observe for abit longer but hope this fixes the issue, thanks!


Great to hear! 🤞


----------



## viktor3000

Guys, I welcome everyone!  Tell me I liked very much k's K300 (now the main headphones), and ps 100-260, but I want a better sound.  What to choose:

Ep09
k's BellLBs  
Yinman 150
Your option


----------



## furyossa (Jul 18, 2021)

viktor3000 said:


> Guys, I welcome everyone!  Tell me I liked very much k's K300 (now the main headphones), and ps 100-260, but I want a better sound.  What to choose:
> 
> Ep09
> k's BellLBs
> ...


First read this post by Mr @WoodyLuvr
Then make another post where you can explain what you're exactly looking for


----------



## viktor3000 (Jul 18, 2021)

viktor3000 said:


> Guys, I welcome everyone!  Tell me I liked very much k's K300 (now the main headphones), and ps 100-260, but I want a better sound.  What to choose:
> 
> Ep09
> k's BellLBs
> ...


Ok
Happy hardcore music, source Huawei 8x phone
I usually listen without attachments.  I like the sound of the ksk300, I think it's a V-shaped sound with a good middle.


----------



## furyossa

viktor3000 said:


> Ok
> Happy hardcore music, source Huawei 8x phone
> I usually listen without attachments.  I like the sound of the ksk300, I think it's a V-shaped sound with a good middle.


If you expect a good recommendation, you have to try a little harder. 
This is a really nice template which can help you


WoodyLuvr said:


> For example when asking for a flathead earbud recommendation the following data is extremely helpful:
> 
> _*source* (DAC/AMP/DAP/PC/smartphone)_
> _*preferred connection* (termination type; single-end vs balanced)_
> ...


----------



## samandhi

Anyone that wants to try and work out with their buds in, but don't want them to fall out could try this silly looking contraption:https://www.amazon.com/Silicone-Fal...?keywords=ear+hooks+for+flat+earbuds&sr=8-190


----------



## furyossa

viktor3000 said:


> Ok
> Happy hardcore music, source Huawei 8x phone
> I usually listen without attachments.  I like the sound of the ksk300, I think it's a V-shaped sound with a good middle.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16455757


----------



## sfrsfr

wskl said:


> A few years ago, I bought the RAP and Zen Lite bundle for $100, if I wanted the Warp Core, it would cost extra, maybe another $50.
> 
> So now, Zen 2.0 SLQ + RAP5 + Warp Core for $200, that is one hell of a deal.
> Congrats


How do you like the RAP? Which version it is?
Do you have the tech specs for it by any chance?


----------



## sfrsfr

jogawag said:


> It's almost "next week".
> I'm looking forward to your comparison of the ShoonTH Esep-01Bl, LBBS and Zen LL.


The package with the buds is a little delayed, I expect it should arrive in 3 days.
In the meantime I will share my impressions of *PT2021 365Ω *vs* Zen LL.*


----------



## viktor3000

viktor3000 said:


> Guys, I welcome everyone!  Tell me I liked very much k's K300 (now the main headphones), and ps 100-260, but I want a better sound.  What to choose:
> 
> Ep09
> k's BellLBs
> ...


Source: smartphone
Perfered connection: 3,5
Listening volume: 70 from 100
Listening time: 30...40 min
Listening environment: Home
Preferred sound signature: Like k's K300 or ps100-260, V
Preferred genre: happy hardcore, eurodance
Price range: 57 dollars


----------



## assassin10000 (Jul 18, 2021)

Took some quick measurements of my new K's LB copper cable w/mic (2021 build date/serial) vs my  K's LB white with what appears to be SPC cable (2020 build date/serial).





8k spike is coupler resonance. 1k normalization.


Originally I was looking to see if the mic cable caused any major channel imbalance... I found it did not.


----------



## Ronion (Jul 18, 2021)

samandhi said:


> Anyone that wants to try and work out with their buds in, but don't want them to fall out could try this silly looking contraption:https://www.amazon.com/Silicone-Fal...?keywords=ear+hooks+for+flat+earbuds&sr=8-190


I’ve been using these ‘shark fins’ on the M2s pro.  No problems so far, but the do require HeiGi foams to sound their best for me.


----------



## wskl

sfrsfr said:


> How do you like the RAP? Which version it is?
> Do you have the tech specs for it by any chance?



I don't have too much experience with portable amps, the RAP (version unknown) is the only one I have so got nothing else to compare it to.  But it seems quite neutral, it does not appear to color the sound.

In the case of driving the Zen Lite (300Ω), the volume knob has a starting position at 7 o'clock, for normal listening, the 9 o'clock position should be fine for most music.  For a few of my very quiet classical recordings I only need to push it to 11 o'clock.

My only complaint is that the amp is on the bulky side, if you look at other portable amps from Fiio, they look quite slim at half the height.  And if you have the Warp Core then the height is doubled when they are stacked together.



Spoiler: VE's description of the RA



RUNABOUT(RA) is Venture Electronics' first portable amp. It is a classical OP + BUF design with two gain settings (Low Gain=3.4X, High Gain=5.7X). The output voltage swing is 3V RMS. Driving 32ohm@ 150mW and 300ohm@ 55mW, it is designed to work with most dynamic driver based earphones and headphones.

RA uses a single 9V battery (6F22 type), DC to DC voltage boost, replaced by a virtual grounds / 3 channel headphone amp design. This is a very classic design and has been implemented in many successful amps from various established brands. While using TLE2426 as the power managing chip, we chose BUF634 to be RA's buffer & isolation chip. Not only it can effectively solve the capacitive load caused by self-excited oscillation and related issues, it also became the solid foundation of the implementing high-current OP / BUF for the amp section.

The amp section consists of 2 x JRC4556AD, a low voltage, high output current OPA chip. Along with its input stage BJT design (similar to more popular OPA chips like OPA2604, OPA2132, etc.), this design offers less background noise and increased stability with low impedance audio source. RA uses a large negative feedback loop, and resistors are added between the OPA chips to regulate and isolate the current. The added bead design in the output section further ensures its stability.

The Warp core can not be charged and power the Amplifier in the same time. It will damage the battery. Please use the DC to power Amplifier when you charge the Warp core.





Spoiler: Spec



*Model：*                                                           RunAbout Plus
*Connector Complement：*                            1×3.5mm stereo jack for Input     1×3.5mm stereo jack for Output      1×DC005 power jack for DC adapter
*Frequency Response：*                                   20Hz-20KHz，±0.3dB
*Maximum Current Output：*                          0.07A
*Maximum Voltage Output： *                         2.6V RMS/5.3V RMS（with 16.8v warp core {external rechargeable battery pack} ）
*Maximum Power Output，32ohm： *            150mW RMS per channel/150mW RMS per channel(with 16.8v warp core {external rechargeable battery pack})
*Maximum Power Output，300ohm： *          20mW RMS per channel/90mW RMS per channel(with 16.8v warp core {external rechargeable battery pack})
*Maximum Power Output，600ohm：*           10mW RMS per channel/50mW RMS per channel(with 16.8v warp core {external rechargeable battery pack})
*THD：   *                                                          ≤0.05%，20Hz-20KHz，1V RMS
*IMD：*                                                             ≤0.06%，1V RMS
*SNR：  *                                                           ≥94dB，1V RMS，unweighted，gain=10.5dB
*Crosstalk：*                                                     ≥90dB，20Hz-20KHz
*Output Impedance： *                                     0.7ohm
*Gain：   *                                                          3.35（10.5dB），5.7（15.1dB）
*Topology： *                                                    OP+BUF，precision virtual ground reference，isolated power supply
*Power Supply：*                                              1×9V 6F22 Battery，or 18V DC adapter
*Power Consumption：*                                     0.072W
*Size：  *                                                            4.33×2.83×1.06（in）
*Weight： *                                                        200g（without battery）


----------



## sfrsfr (Jul 18, 2021)

wskl said:


> I don't have too much experience with portable amps, the RAP (version unknown) is the only one I have so got nothing else to compare it to.  But it seems quite neutral, it does not appear to color the sound.
> 
> In the case of driving the Zen Lite (300Ω), the volume knob has a starting position at 7 o'clock, for normal listening, the 9 o'clock position should be fine for most music.  For a few of my very quiet classical recordings I only need to push it to 11 o'clock.
> 
> ...


Excellent! This is the info that Lee refuses to share with me. I wonder why?
My current favorite amp for high impedance buds is E1DA PowerDAC, which is a completely different design being fully digital. It is also about 30% of size and weight of the RAP.
The PowerDAC sounds great, so I wonder if I would possibly like the RAP sound even more...


----------



## FranQL (Jul 18, 2021)

sfrsfr said:


> Excellent! This is the info that Lee refuses to share with me. I wonder why?
> My current favorite amp for high impedance buds is E1DA PowerDAC, which is a completely different design being fully digital. It is also about 30% of size and weight of the RAP.
> The PowerDAC sounds great, so I wonder if I would possibly like the RAP sound even more...



Perhaps the most interesting part of the RAP is that it is designed advertised to be used with buds, which is something quite unusual.

I thought powerdac v2.1 when it was released, it is indeed a very affordable price, but I read on discord too much trouble to pull the trigger.


----------



## sfrsfr (Jul 18, 2021)

FranQL said:


> Perhaps the most interesting part of the RAP is that it is designed to be used with buds, which is something quite unusual.


I would say the RAP design is a totally traditional fully analog amp, the unusual part is that it is advertised as being great for buds. If it sounds great with buds, it will be great with high impedance headphones as well.


FranQL said:


> I thought powerdac v2.1 when it was released, it is indeed a very affordable price, but I read on discord too much trouble to pull the trigger.


I had no issues with v2. I think the only issues with v2.1 are related to the SE mode using 2.5mmBA to 3.5mmSE adapter. If you use it in the normal balanced mode, it should work exactly same as v2.


----------



## sanjaycr

VE Monk Go - initial impressions
They are not even close to a monk plus 
They sound completely different and poles apart to Monk Plus.
Signature compared to Monk plus is totally changed. The mids are more emphasised, it's signature can be described as brighter compared to the monk. The bass quantity is not absent but is there when required. Are they dull, cold and analytical, no, not at all. They are best described as lively and bright. For the price this is definitely recommended and curious earbud lovers will not be disappointed. Burn-in in process currently


----------



## HarryCustom

Hi all, I've done some searching in the forum, but haven't found an adequate answer to my needs.
I'm looking for earbuds for my LG V50 quad dac, I honestly don't know if high impedance or not, help me understand...
So...

_*source*: LG V50 quad dac_
_*preferred connection*: I can't answer _
_*listening level & time*: medium-high, not more than one or two hour consecutive_
_*listening environment*: home, office, in any case quiet environments_
_*preferred sound signature* balanced–natural–smooth, I don't particularly like powerful bass_
_*preferred genre*: everything from classical music, to rock, to 80s rap_
_*preferred shell type*: no particular preference_
_*price range*: about 50 euros_
Until now I've been using the cheap Edifier P180, I wanted to upgrade and I don't know if the high impedance can help me. I listen to about 50% FLAC music and the rest good quality MP3s.
I am also considering subscribing to TIDAL.

I should also add that I live in Italy, so I don't know if that's useful information.

*Very important*: If the headphones also had a microphone it would be the best because I would also use them for making phone calls.

Any help will be extremely appreciated


----------



## FranQL (Jul 18, 2021)

HarryCustom said:


> Hi all, I've done some searching in the forum, but haven't found an adequate answer to my needs.
> I'm looking for earbuds for my LG V50 quad dac, I honestly don't know if high impedance or not, help me understand...
> So...
> 
> ...



If the microphone is decisive, the recommendations are limited enough. The KS LBBs have a mediocre microphone, although in quiet environments they will do the job.

One of the best performance of the microphone I got from the 1More 1008, unfortunately its sound is not up to the current offerings (in my opinion).

You can also choose a bud mmcx and choose a cable with a microphone (for example RY4S plus).

These days the recommendations of Smabat M2spro have multiplied, I cannot comment on these, but you also have the M2pro and the M0 available.

The fit is important, it will make a bud either bad or good depending on how well they fit in your ears


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 18, 2021)

HarryCustom said:


> Hi all, I've done some searching in the forum, but haven't found an adequate answer to my needs.
> I'm looking for earbuds for my LG V50 quad dac, I honestly don't know if high impedance or not, help me understand...
> So...
> 
> ...


Ciao! And a warm welcome to all things earbuds, here be flathead paradise .

I looked up your smartphone so the *preferred connection* would be *3.5TRS* (aka 3.5SE... aka 3.5mm Unbalanced).

The first earbud that popped in my mind is the •••••• BK2 (16Ω). Very well made and an excellent balanced, neutral signature earbud with light bass. I think that is around $50-70.

Concur with @FranQL regarding the Ks LBB which is balanced-neutral as well... ever so-slightly warm.

The only audiophile quality earbud having a mic that I would recommend is the NiceHCK B40 but it is unfortunately no longer made.


----------



## sfrsfr

HarryCustom said:


> Hi all, I've done some searching in the forum, but haven't found an adequate answer to my needs.
> I'm looking for earbuds for my LG V50 quad dac, I honestly don't know if high impedance or not, help me understand...
> So...
> 
> ...


I recommend choosing a pair with a detachable cable and buying a cable with a mic. Currently there are several good options in this price range.
From my little collection JCALLY EP09 could be a good choice. Also the RY4S plus has a great tuning and have mmcx connectors for any cable of your choice, this for just $7.59.
Then the new buds from Smabat are collecting very positive reviews, though I did not hear them yet.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> I’ve been using these ‘shark fins’ on the M2s pro.  No problems so far, but the do require HeiGi foams to sound their best for me.


For myself, I just ordered some of these. They have some pretty good reviews. I didn't want to wait for shipping from China, so these are the best I could find on Amazon (for the moment). We'll see how well they work: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0195OPLKK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?psc=1


----------



## zhibli06 (Jul 18, 2021)

sfrsfr said:


> Excellent! This is the info that Lee refuses to share with me. I wonder why?
> My current favorite amp for high impedance buds is E1DA PowerDAC, which is a completely different design being fully digital. It is also about 30% of size and weight of the RAP.
> The PowerDAC sounds great, so I wonder if I would possibly like the RAP sound even more...


I didn't refuse to share info with u, i made a post helping ppl to find reviews of the RAP from the group. which i think should be enough for them to make a informed decision.

RAP5 is here...cuz we found some left-over plates from before and KK had some free time in between the parts arriving to make our enterprise 10th ( well it is 12th now lol)

And for this very reason, this is not something we will sell for a long time and RAP has its own kind of word of month thing going already, I did this only to show off a bit before we hit the big target with our first usb dac amp~ which now seems to be quite useless ~ since our odyssey hd is now (after all these years ) finally recognized~(which means my next "dongle" is probly going to get enough attention to grow its fame)

so i did a whole event for those who can appreciate us...I think it is very fair... higher risk for higher gain which for me is more fair than the common pricing - dropping mode~

cheers

Lee


----------



## jogawag

HarryCustom said:


> Hi all, I've done some searching in the forum, but haven't found an adequate answer to my needs.
> I'm looking for earbuds for my LG V50 quad dac, I honestly don't know if high impedance or not, help me understand...
> So...
> 
> ...


A friend of mine who lives far away told me that the Yincrow rw-100 connected to his smart phone sounds very good for a cheap price.
The rw-100 has the option of a microphone.


----------



## Ronion

baskingshark said:


> Since most earbuds are single DD transducers, yeah they generally scale better with amping. Not so much about volume from amping (since you can just boost the volume on a low powered source), but more than the amp gives better dynamics, soundstage, microdetails, perhaps tightness in the bass.
> 
> In contrast to some high sensitivity/low impedance multi BA type IEMs which may not improve significantly with amping. In fact, the FR may be skewed by too much power for those types.
> 
> Quite a few earbuds are also of higher impedance/lower sensitivity than traditional IEMs, so more power is generally better for em. Thing is, once you have heard your favourite earbud that is amped, it is very hard to unhear that and go back to a lower powered source haha.


This seems to be true.  I’m trying all my buds amped and all of the ones I’ve tried are improved over a 1v or even a 2v output.  Though the more efficient ones seems to improve less.  The EA earbuds and 150ohm SMABAT definitely made the biggest leap but the QianYun Qian69 have made a big improvement as well and I’m thinking they are maybe better than my X6 and ShoonTH now.  this has all made me go completely crazy and ordered a tube amp…. This is the point of no return.  I have given one last glance to the normal people in society and said “goodbye” without regrets.


----------



## ian91 (Jul 18, 2021)

Ronion said:


> This seems to be true.  I’m trying all my buds amped and all of the ones I’ve tried are improved over a 1v or even a 2v output.  Though the more efficient ones seems to improve less.  The EA earbuds and 150ohm SMABAT definitely made the biggest leap but the QianYun Qian69 have made a big improvement as well and I’m thinking they are maybe better than my X6 and ShoonTH now.  this has all made me go completely crazy and ordered a tube amp…. This is the point of no return.  I have given one last glance to the normal people in society and said “goodbye” without regrets.



Amp'ing is central to my enjoyment of most of my buds, even the efficient ones! All my buds seem to improve though and an amp provides another part of the chain to work for synergy with. Currently for cello / lute / kora / oud I've found no better pairing than my 64 ohm bud with Cayin C9 (Korg 'Nutube' mode). It provides such an incredibly life-like tonality and timbre, I can feel the fine grain vibrations of the strings as they are plucked or bowed.

There is a natural resonance or overtone that I feel is lost when the ear canal is sealed in the case of the IEM. Long live the earbud.

Keep us informed how your tube adventure goes!


----------



## DBaldock9 (Jul 18, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Wow, that's a great question! I probably only know about 1/4 of the answer in my experience, but I'd assume tube life is going to be somewhere between 5-7 years on these portable guys. Since they're hard-wired in, it's probably a run to fail thing, which was one of the reasons I didn't want to invest in it too heavily on the first purchase.
> 
> I would assume that a well-built tube amp would last longer than any of us here, so long as it was taken care of. Most of them are just blocks of metal or wood with sockets and a little circuitry; not many potential points of failure unless you start looking at some of the stuff that would have solid-state components integrated in.



One thing to note about the inexpensive portable hybrid tube amps (like the B4-X) - they're using tubes that have been out of production for years.
The original B4-X (the one I have) used the JAN5899 (UHF Radio Tube), and the current model has the JAN5784WA (VHF Radio Tube), which isn't a direct replacement, so the values of the resistors in the circuits are different.  I have noticed that, while there were a lot of vendors selling JAN5899 tubes last year on eBay, this year there are hardly any.  My guess is that the supply of New Old Stock of the tubes is running out.
.
I'm not sure whether any of the other portable tube amps are designed to power the earphones directly, without using an op-amp or discrete transistor output stage (to provide impedance matching and current drive).


----------



## furyossa

DBaldock9 said:


> One thing to note about the inexpensive portable hybrid tube amps (like the B4-X) - they're using tubes that have been out of production for years.
> The original B4-X (the one I have) used the JAN5899 (UHF Radio Tube), and the current model has the JAN5784WA (VHF Radio Tube), which isn't a direct replacement, so the values of the resistors in the circuits are different.  I have noticed that, while there were a lot of vendors selling JAN5899 tubes last year on eBay, this year there are hardly any.  My guess is that the supply of New Old Stock of the tubes is running out.
> .
> I'm not sure whether any of the other portable tube amps are designed to power the earphones directly, without using an op-amp or discrete transistor output stage (to provide impedance matching and current drive).


Yup. That's is big problem here. So it is best to check the availability of these tubes before you decide to buy either a cheap or expensive tube AMP / PREAMP / DAC device.

I would like there to be a solution, to make a small tube, something like a small light bulbs on a Christmas tree, which can be connected directly to the driver via some simple system, so that the beautiful light  passes through the shell ports, and you have also tube sound. 
This is really cool idea, so come on Fiio, Moondro, Smabat an the rest of the "gang", bring us some "light"!💡


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Happy Sunday, folks!

Been letting the FAAEAL run through some of this album along with whatever Roon throws into the mix afterwards. Really interesting to hear the bass textures in this album; lots of creative layering.


----------



## furyossa

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Happy Sunday, folks!
> 
> Been letting the FAAEAL run through some of this album along with whatever Roon throws into the mix afterwards. Really interesting to hear the bass textures in this album; lots of creative layering.



I agree, "Go Slow "is a amaizing song and it's great for testing bass but not so much for sub-bass.

So I tested a few pairs to see which one can handle this song.
1. DIY PK1 150ohm "red film" (Nokia HDD-1 driver) - this pair would definitely make even the saddest person to smile at least for a moment. Bass guitar and drums (bass pedal) have superb presentation.
2. HE150Pro (MX500 mod) - very similar to PK1 a bit faster and tighter bass
3. DIY 130om berllium coated driver. Here you can hear real power of beryllium driver. Bass pedal of the drums ... oh boy

I tesed TG-38s, HiFy Boy Dream and few more but when it comes to bass performance, the first 3 models are hard to beat


----------



## sfrsfr (Jul 20, 2021)

sfrsfr said:


> Excellent! This is the info that Lee refuses to share with me. I wonder why?
> My current favorite amp for high impedance buds is E1DA PowerDAC, which is a completely different design being fully digital. It is also about 30% of size and weight of the RAP.
> The PowerDAC sounds great, so I wonder if I would possibly like the RAP sound even more...


FYI the Maximum Voltage Output of PowerDAC is 3.3Vrms. For E1DA 9038D it is 2.75Vrms, and for 9038S it is 3.4Vrms.
And if the shared specs are correct, RunAbout Plus can do 5.3Vrms in high gain.
Interestingly the Fiio BTR5 can do 3.6Vrms in balanced.

All those measurements are in unloaded state.

This should be the most important amp parameter for high impedance buds.


----------



## T0n C

How's it going , folks. I heard shozy intends to release Cygnus balanced edition. Anybody got it yet ?


----------



## HarryCustom

FranQL said:


> You can also choose a bud mmcx and choose a cable with a microphone (for example RY4S plus).



Thank you and to you all who responded.
The solution that almost everyone has proposed, which is to buy headphones and detachable cable sounds great to me.
The RY4S seem to me a good starting point given the price.

Seems I can buy them on the well-known Chinese store. I don't have much knowledge about cables though, is it enough to buy any one that supports mmcx with microphone? 
Or does it have to have special specifications?

Thanks again!


----------



## FranQL

HarryCustom said:


> Thank you and to you all who responded.
> The solution that almost everyone has proposed, which is to buy headphones and detachable cable sounds great to me.
> The RY4S seem to me a good starting point given the price.
> 
> ...



Hello, I put the link of two examples of cables with good ratings.

To search you just have to put in AE "mmcx mic"

https://a.aliexpress.com/_vVrsw9
https://a.aliexpress.com/_vDT3dr


----------



## HarryCustom

FranQL said:


> Hello, I put the link of two examples of cables with good ratings.



Thank you very much!


----------



## thesoundandthefury (Jul 19, 2021)

HarryCustom said:


> Thank you and to you all who responded.
> The solution that almost everyone has proposed, which is to buy headphones and detachable cable sounds great to me.
> The RY4S seem to me a good starting point given the price.
> 
> ...


Someone else might have to verify this but I'll say my hunch anyways:

You might wanna get the 300ohm version of RY4S.

The extra benefits of your _LG V50 quad dac _will only be enabled when using >50ohms earbuds*
*unless you want to constantly 'trick' it with the aux dongle hack, but that seems inconvenient


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

I ordered this little guy in the hopes that it could take full-time duty as the "earbuds" source.



So far, it doesn't disappoint. That 5K has so much potential.



This is where I'm sitting for a quite comfortable listening level. Hopefully that's enough headroom for some of the more demanding buds, but you do gain a _lot_ of extra power through the 2.5mm jack.


----------



## Ronion

I would kick that up to 2V output and have a listen.


----------



## jogawag

HarryCustom said:


> Thank you and to you all who responded.
> The solution that almost everyone has proposed, which is to buy headphones and detachable cable sounds great to me.
> The RY4S seem to me a good starting point given the price.
> 
> ...


I would recommend the OpenHeart oh860 which has a good reputation and is much cooler than the RY4S MMCX PLUS.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001180479742.html


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jul 21, 2021)

Perfect timing! Just sent the Honeydew back to Audio46 yesterday evening and it looks like the M2s Pro arrived this afternoon!



By the way, I can't stress enough how good a device that Qudelix 5K is. All I had to do was clip the little guy to my shirt, tuck the spare cable from my Snow Lotus into my nightshirt and everything stayed in place the entire night. Exactly what I needed. Power for days. Wholeheartedly recommend.


I'm sorry. _What_ kind of sound quality? Has this thing been vaccinated?


----------



## DioBrando

Hi,

I'm looking for a pair of cabled earphones NOT in ear, quite small and possible with texture cover, with mic too. Not great budget since I'm used to break them pretty often unfortunately 
Any suggestions guys? Thx a lot in advance


----------



## samandhi

DioBrando said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm looking for a pair of cabled earphones NOT in ear, quite small and possible with texture cover, with mic too. Not great budget since I'm used to break them pretty often unfortunately
> Any suggestions guys? Thx a lot in advance





furyossa said:


> First read this post by Mr @WoodyLuvr
> Then make another post where you can explain what you're exactly looking for.








miserybeforethemusic said:


> Perfect timing! Just sent the Honeydew back to Audio46 yesterday evening and it looks like the M2s Pro arrived this afternoon!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fantastic! Hopefully that means I should be getting mine soon also, since we ordered them at the same(ish) time. Can't wait to hear your impressions on them?!

LOL I love that!


----------



## samandhi

samandhi said:


> Hopefully that means I should be getting mine soon also, since we ordered them at the same(ish) time.


Yep, I checked, and it is stuck (ATM) in Chicago customs. If it is there more than a day, I might see them in a couple of months... LOL


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> Fantastic! Hopefully that means I should be getting mine soon also, since we ordered them at the same(ish) time. Can't wait to hear your impressions on them?!
> 
> LOL I love that!


Initial impressions on sound won't come tonight; going to take a while to build an impression for these. Truth be told, I appreciated the FAAEAL more out of the box, perhaps because of its price point. With the Smabat, the tonality is completely different, so I've got to let my ears adjust...again...before I can be fair to the M2s Pro.

As far as comfort goes, though, it's all positive. I thought the bigger diameter would have been an issue, but it's not. I _can_ make it work around the ear and pretty easily. This cable is super-light, but doesn't feel too great in the hand. I'd rank it slightly behind the cable that came with my T2 Pro, for reference. Since it's MMCX, I suppose just get whatever cable you want at the time you order. Still waiting on my NiceHCK order to arrive, but my upgrade cable's contained inside.

I _am_ getting better at putting on full foams, though! Only took me about 2 minutes with the M2s Pro. I don't think they need the extra upper mid/treble energy yet, so I intend to keep the donuts off for now. Took me a couple tries to get fit right since the stem isn't aligned quite the same way as the FAAEAL are, but now I can get it to slide into place effortlessly.

Going to keep enjoying them for the evening on the Honeydew playlist and the 5K and we'll see how long I can listen in one go. Have a feeling it's finite with the M2s Pro. With the FAAEAL, it's practically infinite.


samandhi said:


> Yep, I checked, and it is stuck (ATM) in Chicago customs. If it is there more than a day, I might see them in a couple of months... LOL


Fingers crossed for tomorrow, then.


_Still_ doesn't do justice for how small this all is...


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Initial impressions on sound won't come tonight; going to take a while to build an impression for these. Truth be told, I appreciated the FAAEAL more out of the box, perhaps because of its price point. With the Smabat, the tonality is completely different, so I've got to let my ears adjust...again...before I can be fair to the M2s Pro.
> 
> As far as comfort goes, though, it's all positive. I thought the bigger diameter would have been an issue, but it's not. I _can_ make it work around the ear and pretty easily. This cable is super-light, but doesn't feel too great in the hand. I'd rank it slightly behind the cable that came with my T2 Pro, for reference. Since it's MMCX, I suppose just get whatever cable you want at the time you order. Still waiting on my NiceHCK order to arrive, but my upgrade cable's contained inside.
> 
> ...


Oh DO take your time on the impressions. Wouldn't want you to not like them because you didn't bother to "cleanse your palate", so to speak.

I should be an expert at putting on the foams for those, because it looks like they aren't as slick around the edges like the Chaconne are. If so, I'm not too worried about it; I will just have my wife take over for me... LOL

I am eagerly awaiting, but since I have one set, I am content for now. Thanks though!

I forgot to post some pics of those earhooks I got from Amazon for the Chaconne. You could try them if you DO run into any issues of them staying in your ears. With these things they will probably not move from my ears should I be involved in a boxing match (and losing)....


----------



## Ronion

@miserybeforethemusic , which Faaeal do you have?  Snow Lotus 1.0?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Ronion said:


> @miserybeforethemusic , which Faaeal do you have?  Snow Lotus 1.0?


Yes


----------



## Ronion

Okay cool.  Just give it some time.  I have 2 different Snow Lotuses and I’m sure you’ll come to the same conclusion I have.  Though the SMABAT scales better, even on lower power devices like Qudelix (I love mine BTW) you should get better detail from it and a broader frequency response.  We seem to have a lot of the same gear.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Oh DO take your time on the impressions. Wouldn't want you to not like them because you didn't bother to "cleanse your palate", so to speak.
> 
> I should be an expert at putting on the foams for those, because it looks like they aren't as slick around the edges like the Chaconne are. If so, I'm not too worried about it; I will just have my wife take over for me... LOL
> 
> ...


Those hooks look much better than the ones I was directed to from you link earlier.  I bet those sound awesome and have great stability!  You can always foam them as well if you are crafty (joking) with scissors:


----------



## Ronion

Oh, I forgot to mention: my FiiO A5 suddenly died 2 nights ago (after I had ordered a tube amp) and I thought “well at least I have a legitimate excuse for the wife now” for ordering another amp though my heart was broken.  I’m not sure what happened really , but I’m happy to report that I just needed to hit the reset button on the FiiO and everything is back to normal.  Thank goodness!  This device, to the best of my knowledge, has never been exceeded or even duplicated.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Those hooks look much better than the ones I was directed to from you link earlier.  I bet those sound awesome and have great stability!  You can always foam them as well if you are crafty (joking) with scissors:


Ah sorry if I sent the wrong link, but it should have been the same page, actually derived from very ones I ordered. They do sound really good. And I don't know if I actually need the foams, though I haven't actually tried it with them on (as well as the hooks) to compare.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Ronion said:


> Oh, I forgot to mention: my FiiO A5 suddenly died 2 nights ago (after I had ordered a tube amp) and I thought “well at least I have a legitimate excuse for the wife now” for ordering another amp though my heart was broken.  I’m not sure what happened really , but I’m happy to report that I just needed to hit the reset button on the FiiO and everything is back to normal.  Thank goodness!  This device, to the best of my knowledge, has never been exceeded or even duplicated.


Which tube amp did you end up getting? Too funny that the reset button did the trick. I'd probably be just as upset if my E12a ever gave up the ghost. I look at what I spent then vs what people sell it for now and it blows my mind that I got such a good deal (think I spent 60 bucks for it).

If I remember correctly, the A5 and E12a do have quite a lot in common. Maybe I'm getting my lines crossed, but the E12a was the more IEM-focused of the two. That bass boost switch is so well-implemented, too. Just wish it had a hardware crossfeed; would have finally given me a reason to sell off the Total Airhead.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

miserybeforethemusic said:


> If I remember correctly, the A5 and E12a do have quite a lot in common. Maybe I'm getting my lines crossed, but the E12a was the more IEM-focused of the two. That bass boost switch is so well-implemented, too. Just wish it had a hardware crossfeed; would have finally given me a reason to sell off the Total Airhead.


Yes, you are indeed correct the FiiO A5 used the same OPAMP combo as the FiiO E12A: *MUSES02 + LME49600*


----------



## Ronion (Jul 23, 2021)

Yeah, they had 3 different models: I have 2 of them.  I have the e12 Mont Blanc which was the most powerful and had a cheaper/noisier buffer op amps.  The e12a I believe was the cleanest, but least powerful and then the A5 was nearly as powerful as the Mont Blanc, while remaining nearly as clean as the e12a.  My Mont Blanc has a small channel imbalance when used with efficient IEMs at low volumes and definitely has more noise and distortion than the A5.  I definitely still like it but not as much as the A5.  The A5 does it all well.  I got it for a bargain price as well.  Last I looked on EBay they were about $300.  I got mine for $70 or there abouts.  I used the Mont Blanc for years and its battery life isn’t what it used to be.  I fear the day that happens to my A5.  The way it looks now I’ll attempt to repair it myself.  The Mont Blanc has a hardware crossfeed but to be honest, the effect never worked well for me.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Ah sorry if I sent the wrong link, but it should have been the same page, actually derived from very ones I ordered. They do sound really good. And I don't know if I actually need the foams, though I haven't actually tried it with them on (as well as the hooks) to compare.


The foams are easier to get on once the shark fins are there.  If you want more bass you could give it a go  Those Cachonne look sweet!


----------



## RikudouGoku

Since my package from the last sale is stuck in NL (thanks to the new EU import rules). Here is the ranking for the K´s Bell-WE (bass version).

A-

 It is a mild V-shaped earbud, very similar to the Samsara K300 but worse in pretty much every aspect And sub-bass on the Samsara is a lot better. For something that costs more than the Samsara K300, it is quite disappointing. And in the current market (Smabat M2S Pro), this just can’t compete.


----------



## 0b0d0

Hello everyone, 
Have any one of you got experience with the Astrotec Lyra Nature Limited Edition ? I quite like what i've read about those so far. (And still looking for additional impressions on the Maria II, by the way). Thanks.


----------



## Ronion

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Which tube amp did you end up getting?


The Little Bear b4x.  A lot of people like to change the op amps in it and I may end up doing the same before long just to try it out.  Supposedly that’s the biggest difference between the e12 mont blanc and the A5.  There’s definitely a significant, easily distinguishable difference between those 2 amps.  I do actually like the character of the e12.  I play a little electric guitar(used to play a lot and was in a band in college), and I wish I could add it to my pedal board.  It has adds some clarity and brightness to electric guitars that I think everyone would like.  In general, Aerosmith and AC/DC sound brilliant through it.  Steven Tyler’s voice sounds more Steven Tylerish through it too lol.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Ronion said:


> The Little Bear b4x.  A lot of people like to change the op amps in it and I may end up doing the same before long just to try it out.  Supposedly that’s the biggest difference between the e12 mont blanc and the A5.  There’s definitely a significant, easily distinguishable difference between those 2 amps.  I do actually like the character of the e12.  I play a little electric guitar(used to play a lot and was in a band in college), and I wish I could add it to my pedal board.  It has adds some clarity and brightness to electric guitars that I think everyone would like.  In general, Aerosmith and AC/DC sound brilliant through it.  Steven Tyler’s voice sounds more Steven Tylerish through it too lol.


Great choice! I thought the stock TI OPAMPs are...ok. Noise floor is pretty elevated, though, so your more sensitive buds might pick it up. I just don't think they give you that "oh" moment tubes are notorious for and, since the tubes are hard-wired in, that only leaves the OPAMPs to be configured. I see most go for the Burson V5i-D as an upgrade and I certainly like them, but there are also offerings from Sparkos and MUSES that are worth looking into. Good news is you get to pick 

One word of caution: I would not call the B4X "portable" in the sense that you can throw the A5 into your pocket and walk around the house. All of your motion will transmit into the tubes and you'll hear them ring all the way through the chain. Set it on a tabletop and try to avoid drumming those fills from _Dream On_ over the plastic window.


----------



## Ronion

😂 Love that post @miserybeforethemusic!  Good to know.  I was worried about that and reviews indicated that it was better than the Korg nu tube amp.  It was rooting for the Korg to be the preferred one because I have an affinity for Korg in general.  They make some dope keyboards to say the least and I love their key bed and I think the samples in their high end keyboards are bar none my favorite (though Kawai is their equal just less variety in what they sample).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Ronion said:


> 😂 Love that post @miserybeforethemusic!  Good to know.  I was worried about that and reviews indicated that it was better than the Korg nu tube amp.  It was rooting for the Korg to be the preferred one because I have an affinity for Korg in general.  They make some dope keyboards to say the least and I love their key bed and I think the samples in their high end keyboards are bar none my favorite (though Kawai is their equal just less variety in what they sample).


Man, you'd have a field day with some of my NI libraries. Korg's a phenomenal company. I'm pretty partial to Fatar beds as well as whatever Yamaha used in their MX series. Man, that MX61 is a stellar value, but I digress...

I believe Cayin also uses NuTubes in the N3 Pro and N8 and they may have an amp card featuring them that's compatible with the N6ii at this point. Could be the next logical upgrade. Either way, curious to see where you head off next. I'd probably end up doing something stupid, like a Bottlehead Crack build using solid-core wire everywhere (man, I hate doing bends). Probably best I enjoy the B4X as long as I can.

In other news, both VE and NiceHCK are supposedly in Los Angeles, though I haven't gotten any updates beyond that. Keeping my fingers crossed that everything arrives this evening as it'll be a nice little gauntlet to break in and test.

Also did some walking around yesterday with the 5K and M2s Pro. While I missed the more open feel and smoother tonality of the Snow Lotus, the M2s Pro made a lot more sense when out and about. Maybe it's _because_ of it's mid-forward-ness that it manages to maintain a lot of detail when out and about, but that was probably my key takeaway. I hear the occasional glimpse of sub-bass with them (easier to hear when worn around the ear instead of straight down), but I think the FAAEAL are considerably more hefty in the bass department. Smabat's is a drier bass, if that makes sense, and has a much quicker decay. Still plenty of fun, but not nearly as detailed/refined as the FAAEAL were to my ears.

We'll see what happens as they continue to play in.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I believe Cayin also uses NuTubes in the N3 Pro and N8 and they may have an amp card featuring them that's compatible with the N6ii at this point. Could be the next logical upgrade. Either way, curious to see where you head off next. I'd probably end up doing something stupid, like a Bottlehead Crack build using solid-core wire everywhere (man, I hate doing bends). Probably best I enjoy the B4X as long as I can.


Their TOTL C9 uses them too IIRC....


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> Their TOTL C9 uses them too IIRC....


Good call! Still a pretty bitter pill at $1700 (discounted), but it's a beautifully-built amp once you get past the sticker shock. N3 Pro's probably a bit more cost-effective hahaha.

Found an album that has managed to eke out more of the subbass out of these M2s Pro:



Beautiful female vocals too, so don't think I'm giving you some "head in the subwoofer" material


----------



## samandhi

Mine are STILL stuck in Chicago, but I'll give that a listen with the Chaconne anyhow.


----------



## jogawag (Jul 24, 2021)

I'd translate to English almost of reviews from the following link.
https://post.smzdm.com/p/a830k83l/


K's Flathead Series Detailed Crossover Review The Onmyoji, Blue Bell, White Bell, White Bell Bass,
 Little Black Bell S, Reincarnation Absolute, Reincarnation

 The sound of the K's family is common to all the plugs I have listened to. (They have been boiled for 200 hours.)
 In fact, there is a consistent style in them. Apart from the differences in high and low frequencies and density distribution.
 The least difference between Armored Sound's own products is actually the soundstage.
 That's right, the Little Black Bell S doesn't lose out to the flagships in terms of soundstage because it's sold at an entry price.
 Then again, one would think that the entry price would be much less transparent and resolving, but all of the Armored Sound products are guaranteed to be highly transparent.
 There are differences in resolution, but they all have a high level of separation and good resolution.
 For example, the resolution of the Little Black Bell S is even comparable to the Onmyoji in less explosive music.
 The overall sound is clear and crisp, all with an airy, natural feel and no dragging sound.
 It seems evident that the K's home design is more full of sincerity towards the customer experience, wanting everyone to hear the core good sound, without absolute price for sound.
 There is no compression of the sound because of price.
 In actual testing, it was found that the lowest priced Little Black Bell S in this review had the highest value for money sound, so it might be worthwhile for everyone to cross over ab for a comparison.




Onmyoji
======

Tags: full range high energy, balance, airiness, liveliness, transparency, strong dynamic resolution, vocal toxicity, natural resonance, muted.

What I wrote at the beginning about Onmyoji is that it is the sound that best represents K's sound architecture.
Overall, I rate the Onmyoji as a relatively flawless earbuds.
The first thing that runs through the K's sound tuning style is a large, loose, transparent soundstage for durable listening pleasure.
The tone is then built on this base scene. Onmyoji is based on a large soundstage with both transparent and airy highs, ambient lows and a characteristically very airy midrange.
Not overly tinted, yet still easy to listen to. It is very clinical.
The sound is very dense, yet airy, allowing the listener to understand the white space.
This Onmyoji approach gives you the feeling of really swimming. You can listen to all kinds of music with ease.
On the vocal side, you can hear everything from rap to hi-fi audiophile vocals, making Onmyoji the best earbuds on the market.
This is because it is as refreshing as drinking a cup of fresh tea. It's this rawness that allows you to sing the most vibrant raps, but also the most sophisticated godfathers, without breaking the harmony.
Listening to the strings, big compilations and dynamics, the sense of form, separation, dynamics, transients and lines are all at Flathead's flagship level, with the scraped string sounds and vocals coexisting perfectly.
This freshness is a true masterstroke.




Blue Bell
======

Tags: full frequency bias mid-high frequency, high frequency bright, mid-high frequency density is particularly good, smoothness is very high, fiddle sound ho no fracture grainy feeling, sound exquisite spirit, quality flow in keeping the human voice poison, bias female voice poison. The high frequency is above the Onmyoji, no less than the resolution of the 2K flagship.

The Blue Bell has more high frequency extension and a dense sense of continuity in amplitude detail.
This is the dense before it breaks if pulled again, like stretched satin but in a single breath, this high frequency is a bit fragrant, silky and woody.
And the midrange is also dense, clear and accurate, with a kind of unflinching kind of gentle lightness in the midrange.
And the low frequency dive is firm and strong and elastic, the low frequency resolution is in place, the amount of energy is a little less than the Yin Yang Master, the overall collection is free,
I think the Blue Bell is the show quality kind of plug, but the more you listen to it, the more musical it is. It doesn't feel stained, but it's not completely straightforward, there's a vegetal musical flavour to it.
I think the Blue Bell can be classified as a quality plug in the omnivore category.




White Bell and White Bell BASS versions
===========================

Tags: full-range bias low-midrange, solid low-midrange density, lots of volume, the bass version has the most amount of low-frequency. The sound is very thick, keeping the sub-flagship resolution in the analogue sound, the vocals are very round and listenable, suitable for all pop songs, the vocals have a high level of throat rhythm and the amount of low frequencies is the most in the K's family.

The sound of the White Bell is characterised by its roundness and very thick sound.
It is one of the thicker voices in the Bell range.
The soundstage is controlled and regular, with some moist, very smooth sound, with a kind of melting feeling, from the classic analogue sound, quality to the degree of vice flagship, the advantage is durable, especially vocals, pop songs.
It's a great way to keep the sound going for a long time.
The sound is adjustable in terms of sharpness, too sharp and it becomes unlistenable, too weak and it becomes less transparent, so it is important to find the right place.
I think the White Bells have found a balance.
The White Bell is popular without sacrificing high frequencies and transparency.
In fact, many plugs are also very analogue, but most will sacrifice high frequencies and transparency in exchange.
The Armored Sound's signature translucency, and large soundstage are just as much a part of the White Bell's ownership.
Then the White Spirit standardity sound is thick and rounded, with a light analogue flavour against a permeable background, permeated by a thick throaty, rounded human emotion.
The transient, string-rubbing sound of the Shades, the Blue Bell. Here there is some mellowing of the treatment. The musical resolution is sub-flagship level,
I think. The vocals are close to the ear. A solid tuning, omnivorous, but very good pop work. The bass version is a low-frequency enhancement version, and the white bell bass version is a low-frequency volume upgrade of a notch.
Dynamics, dip and volume are all enhanced. This time it can be adapted to more songs that require a sense of ambience.




Little Black Bell S (LBBS)
================

Tags: aggressive value for money, sound architecture like Onmyoji, material savings and must be Onmyoji, personal quantification could have 70% of Onmyoji's power. The density and control of the vocals are not as good, but the size summary is much more playful than the price range. They feel good to wear and are not too expensive, making them good value for money, whether you are listening to them yourself or giving them as a gift to a loved one.

Little Black Bell S This earbuds must be highly recommended now. Because the value for money is so obvious.
Between the quality of the music from the sub-flagship of the ear to the flagship, this price range is simply a bomb in deep water, firstly, not for the lower price range, and cuts the sense of range, transparency and resolution.
I think he reproduces more faithfully the tone, backbone and scale similar to Onmyoji.
Of course, those with extraordinarily good ears will be able to distinguish the soundstage, transparency and resolution or Onmyoji, but those with mediocre ears will undoubtedly be misled. My wife has normal ears and she can't hear much difference between the Little Black Bell S and the Onmyoji on certain songs on her mobile phone.
Then, of course, the quality and control of the hardware is still not as good as Onmyoji's, and the vocals are a bit thinner and less dense than his.
The overall sound reference shade reviews, tone and sound architecture etc are similar.
What is there is never lost. You can think of the Onmyoji as the Buddha wall of famous and expensive materials, and the Little Black Bell S as the Buddha wall of the chef's internal everyday cooking with humble materials.
Overall, these earbuds are the best push.
It is ideal for those who want to have a crossover expectation despite its entry price. The sound is well balanced and suitable for any kind of music performance.




Reincarnation of the absolute sound (new version of the winding coil single crystal copper) balanced line version
=========================================================================

Tags: very black background, open large headphone level loud field, sound with a large headphone type body, low frequency with a sense of scale weight, dynamic range of touching, listening coherent, listenable, have a well organized field control force. On the stage machine thrust a large boost, 105dB/mW of high sensitivity can be mobile phone listening, but also can be listened to on the go.

When I bought them, I asked about the new version, which has a double-layer micro-insulation structure with a single crystal copper winding coil.
I don't know if that's wrong. It's probably this wire. The ears took delivery,
I think. For the rounds of auditioning, I was on the desk machine, the desk machine in the vocal-leaning Kayin 66 combination, the opa4a bile amplifier, and the Goethe resolution monster x26 have all been tried.
So 5000mw-7000mw load 32 ohms of thrust is basically pushing the 520 ohms impedance completely away.
First of all, the sound of the Reincarnation Absolute should be different from that of the Suzuki series, with a super-loud soundstage and an extremely dark background when on the stage machine.
It's actually a bit like a flat headset when pushed evenly.
The sound has the type of body feeling like listening to headphones on a desktop machine, the sound is described by the scale of headphones.
Especially low frequency. Very much with a sense of scale weight, dynamic range of touching, and the right resolution, so that the sense of continuous listening durable.
There is well-organised field control. The field can be big, but the hair (order) cannot be messed up.
Reincarnation series, with good resolution, but not as linear as the Blue Bell and Onmyoji of the Bell series, the amplitude frequency detail is steady and not too much, but it feels an appropriate.
On stage the whole is an infusion of spectacle for the music, initiating a sense of quickness.
Not on stage the reincarnation of the absolute sound on top of a professional hifi walkman (500mw load 32 ohm balanced thrust) the N62's listening experience is that the sense of form drops a bit and the vocals are brought closer together. Contrast this with some earbuds that don't have high impedance.
It also has the black background, large soundstage and stable sound of high impedance earbuds.
I think it can be played to the point where you can listen to it without caring about impedance.
When it comes to mobile phones, my phone is an oppo reno2 with a professional music chip, and at this point there is some drop in sound, and I think there is 6 power left.
But the high sensitivity of 105dB/mW is not a cover when I listen carefully.
At this point there is some sense of cavity sound.
The soundstage isn't fully opened up, but there is a sense of an oversized room, rather strangely, with a nice sense of envelopment.
It's not fully played, but it sounds quite listenable, with a sense of open-armed envelopment, which is still good.
Not preachy, it's still fine to listen to.
But it's still highly recommended to push it at high thrust. In fact I get the most out of it when I push it up to 7000mw!




Reincarnation (silver plated version) single ended version
======================================

Tags: extremely black background, open, large headphone-level soundstage, best sense of decoupling on a desk machine, (even more forgettable than my balanced Reincarnation absolute.) Deep stable listening, natural sound, quite smooth vocals, delicate and big dynamics coexist, coherent listening, durable, with well organized field control. The sound is natural, the vocals are quite smooth, delicate and dynamic. That's right, plugged into a desk machine to sleep with.

The Reincarnation was borrowed from a friend, and I bought the Reincarnation because I listened to it.
It's an upgrade for the price. I should say that the sound of the two plugs is quite similar.
The difference is that the Reincarnation (the new version) has a better low end, more volume and depth, and slightly more dynamics.
The Reincarnation, on the other hand, is a little lighter in the lower frequencies than the Reincarnation, but a little stronger in the higher frequencies.
The high frequencies are deeper and the soundstage feels slightly larger.
The Reincarnation is characterised by a particularly deep and stable listening experience, with a natural sound, fairly smooth vocals, fine and large dynamics, and a distinctly large headphone feel.
This plug is basically can listen to half a day without getting tired, the best off the plug feeling on the table machine.
I tried a few times to listen to forget me. Quality may not be as good as the bell series above the white bell.
But it does have the best fit with a desktop machine. And the soundstage is exceptionally large and comfortable.
And the control is very good, and the big compilations are still in good order. In fact, after a few listens,
I even felt that this could be used as a quality sleeper.
So I took the n62 with me and tried it out and found that it was all good too, pushing out over 85% I think.
This plug is really light and light, I almost forgot I had a plug with me.
I should say this is the male model of the mx500.
It weighs about the same as the little black bell S.
But wearing it steady still feels much superior to the Suzu series.
I can say that the Bell series still wears significantly better than the mx500 male model. Of course, if you've heard the mx500, you'll know how it wears.





K's Flathead Series Detailed Cross-Review Blue Bell, White Bell, White Bell Bass, Little Black Bell S, Reincarnation, Absolute Reincarnation
==========================================================================================

Overall, I think that those who require a flathead hi-end tendency should of course go for the Onmyoji. 2020 I have reviewed many plugs and this is one of the most balanced models. It has everything it should have. The best balance of vibrancy, airiness, transparency, loud field, vocal toxicity and musicality. And with a great design, it's just right to take it out for face value!

If you want a more airy sound in the high frequencies, more quality, brighter and denser high frequency resolution. If you want to get more airy and quality sound in the high frequencies, brighten up the quality of the high frequency resolution and increase the density. Then go for the Blue Bell. Seriously recommend listening to Lv Siqing's violin medium-sized compilation "Liang Zhu", will refresh your perception of the high-density smoothness of the flat head high-frequency piano fragrance.

If the budget is not enough on the flagship, vice flagship of the white bell is to find some positive flagship level of deep thickness, this deep thickness than the Onmyoji are still thick and unending, the throat rhythm is more evocative. The mid-air makes it more playable in audiophile vocals, pop renditions. And this playfulness really brings out new heights of flavour compared to its price point.

Next, the entry price enjoys the over-the-top treatment of the Little Black Bell S. I think it reaches the success of the Onmyoji 7 on the accompanying. The sound architecture basically mimics Onmyoji, and the entry price is a deep water bomb, definitely not a plaything. It wears well and the price point is right for a girlfriend or for your own listening pleasure, of course.

If you have high thrust to carry around, or on stage, the Reincarnation and Reincarnation Absolute are great choices. The K's high resistance is basically to provide high field control of the black background and loud field of calm listening.


----------



## nymz

jogawag said:


> I'd translate to English almost of reviews from the following link.
> https://post.smzdm.com/p/a830k83l/
> 
> 
> ...



I havent got much time and ocasions to test my LBBS and to compare it to m2s pro and zen2.0,but one thing is for sure: it doesnt sound like a 50usd bud and its the best fit ever for my ears. Im simply amazed.. In the last week, everytime I wanted to grab a bud, it was lbbs. Easy to drive, 3.5mm and sounds full. I get very good passive isolation with full foams.

I'll get more impressions in the next couple of days and I'll try to do some comparisons. Needless to say that my eyes are on Omnyoji now, just afraid of QC issues..


----------



## ian91

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Good call! Still a pretty bitter pill at $1700 (discounted), but it's a beautifully-built amp once you get past the sticker shock. N3 Pro's probably a bit more cost-effective hahaha.



Definitely a bitter pill, but I have only good things to report about the C9 and what it does to almost every device I attach to it. IEMs, earbuds and overears, all of them take a significant step up in transient response and perceptable stage. 

Let us know what direction you take and how it treats you! Tubes + earbuds = oh baby.


----------



## Ronion

Just wanted to update as a word of warning to all about AliExpress.  My buds are still in China after 60 days.  Previously they had given me a $20 coupon to express their regret in a dispute.  Today they told me that I could have used that coupon for the price of my buds.  So now I don’t have the buds and I bought something that I wouldn’t have bought without that coupon.  The Buds cost me $26 So the coupon would not have covered their end anyway.  I will never do business with them again for certain now.  Even if I end up with the buds, it no longer matters.  They are not honest people and I can’t support it.  I certainly wouldn’t put any money there that’s dear to you Even if this doesn’t sway your opinion about the morality of that company.  I’ve never had “service“ like that before.  It’s amazing to me that anyone could have the brains to build such a comprehensive website but that small mindedness to not hold up their end of the bargain.


----------



## baskingshark

Ronion said:


> Just wanted to update as a word of warning to all about AliExpress.  My buds are still in China after 60 days.  Previously they had given me a $20 coupon to express their regret in a dispute.  Today they told me that I could have used that coupon for the price of my buds.  So now I don’t have the buds and I bought something that I wouldn’t have bought without that coupon.  The Buds cost me $26 So the coupon would not have covered their end anyway.  I will never do business with them again for certain now.  Even if I end up with the buds, it no longer matters.  They are not honest people and I can’t support it.  I certainly wouldn’t put any money there that’s dear to you Even if this doesn’t sway your opinion about the morality of that company.  I’ve never had “service“ like that before.  It’s amazing to me that anyone could have the brains to build such a comprehensive website but that small mindedness to not hold up their end of the bargain.



Which shop is this?

I got played out by a few shops in the past and they are on my blacklist, but some Aliexpress shops are quite reputable.


----------



## Ronion

It’s Venture Electronics, but it’s not their fault.  It’s shipped through AliExpress and it would seem that AliExpress‘s shipping service has lost it Or is just not in any hurry to get it to the U.S.A.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Ronion said:


> It’s Venture Electronics, but it’s not their fault.  It’s shipped through AliExpress and it would seem that AliExpress‘s shipping service has lost it Or is just not in any hurry to get it to the U.S.A.


Have you tried running the number through 17Track? I thought my VE order was AWOL as well, but got a message from Lee with a 17Track link that clearly showed it had been moving.

Granted, it's frustrating knowing I'm in the same city as my gear, yet the postal service is taking forever to figure out the logistics. Between that and the NiceHCK order, it'll be a nice group of buds to run through the gauntlet.


----------



## nymz

My VE experience had been nothing than the best. Lee is a very nice and available guy to get to my needs. You can always use their website in the future! Aliexpress now has vat for eu, which can be a good or a bad thing, depends on the item!


----------



## Ronion

I’ve spoken to VE several times about it.  They keep assuring me that AE won’t steal my money, but AE is telling me that they won’t give my money back—they gave me the coupon.  AE won’t really do anything until it’s been 60 days which is exactly when PayPal’s protection runs out.  Looks like AE is probably aware of that.  I’ve had 2 talks with AE’s customer service and several with Venture Electronics.  I’ve begged them both to make it right.  Now I’ve go PayPal involved too.  I’ve checked tracking on the order nearly everyday for 2 months.  It hasn’t budged.  It’s still in China. I’ll just have to wait and see at this point.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Ronion said:


> I’ve spoken to VE several times about it.  They keep assuring me that AE won’t steal my money, but AE is telling me that they won’t give my money back—they gave me the coupon.  AE won’t really do anything until it’s been 60 days which is exactly when PayPal’s protection runs out.  Looks like AE is probably aware of that.  I’ve had 2 talks with AE’s customer service and several with Venture Electronics.  I’ve begged them both to make it right.  Now I’ve go PayPal involved too.  I’ve checked tracking on the order nearly everyday for 2 months.  It hasn’t budged.  It’s still in China. I’ll just have to wait and see at this point.


Not liking to smile at your misery. That sounds rough and I'm sorry you're going through it. Sounds very similar to my experience with Edifier, so I understand the frustration. My only words of encouragement are that the Edifier eventually showed up months down the road.

All of the courier services are having issues right now. Add international post and it's an extra level of complexity. We're definitely feeling the sting of that right now where I work.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> I’ve spoken to VE several times about it.  They keep assuring me that AE won’t steal my money, but AE is telling me that they won’t give my money back—they gave me the coupon.  AE won’t really do anything until it’s been 60 days which is exactly when PayPal’s protection runs out.  Looks like AE is probably aware of that.  I’ve had 2 talks with AE’s customer service and several with Venture Electronics.  I’ve begged them both to make it right.  Now I’ve go PayPal involved too.  I’ve checked tracking on the order nearly everyday for 2 months.  It hasn’t budged.  It’s still in China. I’ll just have to wait and see at this point.


Maybe just have Paypal get your money back, and then order them directly from VE? Sorry for your pain!


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Maybe just have Paypal get your money back, and then order them directly from VE? Sorry for your pain!


This is what I’m hoping for but it’s past PayPal’s buyer protection policy period.  My original intent was to order through VE, but their website actually suggested I placed my order through AE… I think shipping is cheaper that way, but I don’t remember their rationale.  My memory span for such matters seems to be about 2 weeks and it’s been more than now lol.  

I tell you, the participants in this thread have to be the coolest people on the web!  Thank you guys so much.  I truly appreciate it.  It’s amazing to me that people I’ve never met from all over the world care enough to be helpful.  There’s hope for this comfy blue planet nestled 93 million miles away from its power source in this picturesque corner of the Milky Way yet.


----------



## Ronion

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Not liking to smile at your misery. That sounds rough and I'm sorry you're going through it. Sounds very similar to my experience with Edifier, so I understand the frustration. My only words of encouragement are that the Edifier eventually showed up months down the road.
> 
> All of the courier services are having issues right now. Add international post and it's an extra level of complexity. We're definitely feeling the sting of that right now where I work.


Thanks brother, I appreciate it.  I’ve had 2 other packages lost, both audio products, since the pandemic started.  Both Drop and Brainwaves made it right the first time without a hint of hassle.  They were both actually cool to talk to.  Nothing but friendly.  I’ll order more things from them in the future without a doubt.  In fact I have since then.


----------



## samandhi

Now that I think about it, I had almost the same issue some years back when I ordered the Xioami Piston 2. It was actually my very first dealings with AE. I waited something like 2 1/2 months, and the tracking didn't change. AE claimed they were on the way. At that time I had no recourse because I didn't use Paypal (taught me fast). Turns out they sent it to the wrong address, in the wrong country. They DID finally make it right, and admitted what they had done. 

I have to say, I really haven't had any issues of suspected dishonesty, rip-off, etc... with AE, though they have the be the absolute slowest shipping I have ever dealt with, except where AudioSense used their own shipping, and I received my T800 in 2 days (from China to USA). 

I do really hope you get it resolved, as I hate to see anyone just trying to try new things and get shafted for the effort!


----------



## Ronion

It’s definitely a bummer.  That’s the one ear bud shape that I want to try and haven’t had the opportunity due to this shipping issue and my reluctance to order another when I’ve already paid for one that I haven’t received. 
In any case, I didn’t intend to hijack  this thread with Ali bashing.  Just to put the warning out there that if things go wrong they may very well be exceptionally reluctant to make it right.  I’d hate to see others go through this just like another member did with FAAEAL—where they sent him the wrong item and absolutely refused to make it right.
what I want to do now is  a 2.5mm balanced plug on my Eearbud Anonymous Earbuds.  They sound so much better on the A5 that I want to use them on the Qudelix through the 4v balanced output.  Reading the A5 specs though, it looks like it has a 14.9v output!?!? I must be reading that wrong.  Anyone know if that’s correct?  I must be misunderstanding something.  That sounds unrealistic.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Ronion said:


> It’s definitely a bummer.  That’s the one ear bud shape that I want to try and haven’t had the opportunity due to this shipping issue and my reluctance to order another when I’ve already paid for one that I haven’t received.
> In any case, I didn’t intend to hijack  this thread with Ali bashing.  Just to put the warning out there that if things go wrong they may very well be exceptionally reluctant to make it right.  I’d hate to see others go through this just like another member did with FAAEAL—where they sent him the wrong item and absolutely refused to make it right.
> what I want to do now is  a 2.5mm balanced plug on my Eearbud Anonymous Earbuds.  They sound so much better on the A5 that I want to use them on the Qudelix through the 4v balanced output.  Reading the A5 specs though, it looks like it has a 14.9v output!?!? I must be reading that wrong.  Anyone know if that’s correct?  I must be misunderstanding something.  That sounds unrealistic.


It is 1.8V









18volt is impossible for a portable amp (dont even think high end desktop amps are that powerful).


----------



## baskingshark

Ronion said:


> I’ve spoken to VE several times about it.  They keep assuring me that AE won’t steal my money, but AE is telling me that they won’t give my money back—they gave me the coupon.  AE won’t really do anything until it’s been 60 days which is exactly when PayPal’s protection runs out.  Looks like AE is probably aware of that.  I’ve had 2 talks with AE’s customer service and several with Venture Electronics.  I’ve begged them both to make it right.  Now I’ve go PayPal involved too.  I’ve checked tracking on the order nearly everyday for 2 months.  It hasn’t budged.  It’s still in China. I’ll just have to wait and see at this point.



I've bought north of 200 items from Aliexpress, about 10% of the purchases had issues:
 - seller gave fake tracking number and the item was delivered to another country (aliexpress internal tracker says it was delivered to me, but using some global tracking like 17track showed otherwise)
- wrong item or different amount from the original order
- defective item
- item was never shipped but Aliexpress seller pulled some sob story that it was and to be patient and wait for it


I still buy from Aliexpress cause they are cheaper than Amazon, but of course the CS and warranty is a bit iffy. On Aliexpress, I always buy from shops that have > 97% POSITIVE reviews, and not from new fly by night shops that have no ratings or very dodgy alphabet soup names. After a while you will know who are the more established names.

Whatever you do, do not close the dispute. Your money is still held in escrow on Aliexpress. The usual tactic the Aliexpress sellers do is to stall you until the buyer protection runs out or they persuade you to remove the dispute, saying it is bad for their reputation etc. Aliexpress is quite sticky about the buyer protection period and they will really make you wait until a few days before it ends before refunding you. Take photos and screenshots of your conversation with the Aliexpress shops, and use 17track to show that the tracking they gave shows it wasn't delivered to your house and hold firm, they will eventually refund you. But do chase them a few days before the buyer protection ends, once it ends, Aliexpress will release the money to the seller.


----------



## samandhi

RikudouGoku said:


> It is 1.8V
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It is interesting that you found some actual measurements, because it says >800mW on the Fiio site... LOL 

And you are correct, it is indeed impossible. Heck, my DX300 WITH an Amp12 card is only capable of of 8.3V, which is actually huge for a portable DAP.


----------



## Ronion

That is so crazy!  The measurements do look incredible for a portable device, but not what their website is stating.  Of course that measurement data from ASR COULD be interpreted as >800mw @ 0.1% THD or nearly 1watt at 1%.  That’s insane power really even if not what they claim.  I may well be misunderstanding what their specs say.  Now what I wonder is why does the performance of the A5 seem considerably better than my Qudelix.  I’ve got a feeling that the Qudelix just needs to be run balanced, but maybe it’s partly the AAC codec from Apple?  I always run FLAC when wired and using the A5.


----------



## Ronion (Jul 24, 2021)

Look how much the Qudelix’s(say that out loud and try not to sound drunk lol) power jumps when run balanced.  Also look how bad crappy codecs perform And how well LDAC does.


----------



## Ronion

Actually given their stated conditions, FiiO was being a bit conservative.

my Little Bear has arrived and is being charged as I type.  Ignore the footstool it’s on.  I made those joints from a homemade jig and never completed the finish so it’s all worn off.  Lazy and Woodworking are not a good combination lol


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Ronion said:


> Actually given their stated conditions, FiiO was being a bit conservative.
> 
> my Little Bear has arrived and is being charged as I type.  Ignore the footstool it’s on.  I made those joints from a homemade jig and never completed the finish so it’s all worn off.  Lazy and Woodworking are not a good combination lol


Considering a fraction of the people out there would attempt to work with a joint like that, I don't think it's bad at all!

Regarding the Qudelix, it's quite interesting, really, to see what's going on sonically from codec to codec. I can tell you there is a tangible improvement in technicalities and overall FR when I switch from aptX over, let alone AAC. Qudelix did something right with that codec. I never really trust power output numbers as they're typically rated at 1kHz only and that's not representative of music, but it's cool that Qudelix displays the real-time voltage output, so you can reasonably do some circuit math and figure it out for yourself. It's not a lightweight, that's for sure. This is intelligent power management to a T.

Good news is, when in doubt, you can just run the bugger as a wired DAC/amp. Its ASR figures for that aren't so pretty, but it at least gives you an alternative to AAC from the iDevices.


----------



## Ronion

Thanks for the compliment on the joint!  I wish I had more time to do some woodworking.  It’s good for the soul.

It’s so crazy how much power the Qudelix has for the size!  I do want to run it wired.  I wonder if it’s not the bigger part of the ‘problem’ not that there’s any real problem mind you.  FLACing it might just do the trick.  I want to FLAC it so bad 😝 The EQ is really it’s best feature!


----------



## Ronion

Well this tube amp thing is legit.  It’s a totally different experience than the A5.  There’s a pleasantness to the sound.  Like a dark, soft-toned female voice that is sensual and inviting.  I used to think that the A5 sounded polite compared to the E12 Mont Blanc, but this is the next level.  The soundstage, or headstage also seems more saturated and lush.  Far more interesting than I thought this was going to be to say the least.  Something is compelling me to put in the ShoonTH and listen to the best pianists on the planet play Romantic Era piano music.


----------



## aspire5550 (Jul 25, 2021)

Ronion said:


> I’ve spoken to VE several times about it.  They keep assuring me that AE won’t steal my money, but AE is telling me that they won’t give my money back—they gave me the coupon.  AE won’t really do anything until it’s been 60 days which is exactly when PayPal’s protection runs out.  Looks like AE is probably aware of that.  I’ve had 2 talks with AE’s customer service and several with Venture Electronics.  I’ve begged them both to make it right.  Now I’ve go PayPal involved too.  I’ve checked tracking on the order nearly everyday for 2 months.  It hasn’t budged.  It’s still in China. I’ll just have to wait and see at this point.


From my experience, any disputes usually have to go through AE and AE have the final say. May I know when is the ETA for your item's delivery? If it has not exceed the delivery time, AE will never refund you. Also , in my experience, when I select free shipping, the seller will use some cheaper shipping option that only provides tracking within China. Anything that happen outside of China, will not be tracked. I can refresh all I want , the shipping information can show that it is still somewhere in china. Next thing I know, the item arrived in front of my doorstep.

Things to note, (correct me if im wrong),the sellers actually doesn't get your money during every sale. Every purchase that you make, AE actually acts as the middle man and hold on the money first. It is only until you click on confirm received that AE will give the money to the seller. 

Sometimes the shipping can get weird and the item may or may not arrive. From my experience, I've purchase close to 50 items from AE. There's been close to 5 times when I filed dispute for items not arriving and I always get my money back.

The most recent one, since I selected free shipping, I didn't mind the wait time. Estimated Delivery Time:30-50 Days.
It happened around june last year when Covid still affected the shipping time. If I remember correctly, they asked me to wait for few more weeks after the 50 days explaining the covid situation. So I extended the AE protection time during that period.

After I've waited and the item still haven't arrive, they refunded me with no questions asked. As long as you filed a dispute with AE after the ETA delivery time, within the AE protection time,  I'm pretty sure you can get your full refund from AE.

A side note, the item actually arrived many months later.


----------



## Ronion

My ETA was June 26, 2021.  All of my other orders tracked quite well.  AliExpress has even blocked me from contacting Venture Electronics through their website.  They say my comment breaks the local law code.  Whatever.  They want to steal $26 from me I can live with it.  It’ll just be my last order.


----------



## baskingshark

Ronion said:


> My ETA was June 26, 2021.  All of my other orders tracked quite well.  AliExpress has even blocked me from contacting Venture Electronics through their website.  They say my comment breaks the local law code.  Whatever.  They want to steal $26 from me I can live with it.  It’ll just be my last order.



In the logistics/delivery problems I've encountered buying from Aliexpress, I've had some sincere Aliexpress sellers willing to offer to refund you even within the validity period of the Aliexpress protecion period, once I showed them the logistics issue that the item wasn't even delivered/delivered wrongly. They won't even bother waiting for near the expiry period before processing the refund directly with Aliexpress. Those shops had my respect and I went back to purchase from them again in the future.

It is quite sad that this issue cropped up for you, I hope it gets sorted out soonish, but some of these sellers and sites are really penny wise but pound foolish when it comes to reputation and settling of logistics/refunds. And that may dissuade buyers from going back to their shop, or even avoiding the entire Aliexpress platform totally.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 25, 2021)

Ronion said:


> Reading the A5 specs though, it looks like it has a *14.9v output*!?!? I must be reading that wrong.  Anyone know if that’s correct?  I must be misunderstanding something.  That sounds unrealistic.


That is Peak-to-Peak Voltage aka 'effective' voltage (Vpp)! You are thinking of *Vrms* which is "average" voltage or "actually seen" voltage in layman's terms. *Fiio A5 Vrms is 5.29V *(_see below for more details_).


RikudouGoku said:


> *It is 1.8V*


No, the 1.8Vrms is a testing measurement only... after being leveled to 2Vrms for a High Performance Sine Wave @ 1kHz and 2.5Vrms analog input signal. This allows for consistency in testing across multiple devices but it is not always a "full" reflection of the device's capabilities nor the circuit's design considerations especially if "gain modes" are involved. Which in this case is indeed a factor to be considered as this 1.8VRms result was due to the ASR tester using FiiO A5's rather low "Low Gain" mode (which is intended for IEM/High-Sensitivity Headphone use).





I assure you that the A5 can easily output well over 1.8Vrms especially in High Gain mode... I should know I owned one . Gosh, even my little Meizu HiFi DAC HeadAMP PRO dongle, when "*tricked*", will output ~2Vrms with a thrust of 100mW @ 32Ω (13mW @ 300Ω).

I wish that both manufacturers and testers/reviewers would better (more clearly) explain these parameters as it often times can be unintentionally misleading and/or misunderstood (but since both *analog signal source input values* and *headphone impedance/sensitivity ratings* are all over the board I do admit it is extremely difficult for manufacturers to provide meaningful and consistent parameters that the consumer will experience in real-life).


*FiiO A5 Parameters *Provided by @FiiO
Supplied Power: +/-11V
Peak Output Voltage: 14.96Vp-p (Vpp = Peak-to-Peak Voltage)
Max Output Current: 250mA
Output Power @   32Ω: > 800 mW (> ~5.06Vrms / > ~158mA)
Output Power @ 300Ω: ≥ 150mW (≥ ~6.71Vrms / ≥ ~22mA)
Output Impedance: <0.3Ω

Now FiiO has traditionally always been *very conservative* with their given parameters... meaning their products generally output greater numbers when "loaded" than shown on paper.


Here are the RMS values that we get via math:

_14.96Vpp / 2 = 7.48Vp_​_7.48Vp * 0.707 = 5.29Vrms_​_250mA * 0.707 = 177mA rms_​
*RMS Voltage: 5.29V* (probably occurring @ ~30Ω in High Gain)​*RMS Output Current: 177mA* (probably occurring @ ~30Ω in High Gain)​

And this is what we get in actual "real-life" performance (the following are measurements of my A5 in "High Gain" mode taken by a professional audio engineer back in 2017. In regards to the line signal input: apologies, I am unable to read my terrible hand writing nor can I recall the value but it definitely was not something bizarre or out of the ordinary):

Output Impedance = 0.26Ω​Output @   16Ω = 2.89Vrms  522mW  181mA​Output @   32Ω = 5.32Vrms  885mW  166mA​Output @ 150Ω = 5.87Vrms  230mW    39mA​Output @ 300Ω = 6.79Vrms  154mW    23mA​
If I recall correctly when we tested at 600Ω impedance the output dropped drastically down to less than 1mW, if I am not mistaken, which is simply due to the amp's circuit voltage/current design limitations when driving headphones over 300Ω.


So you can see my FiiO A5 performed slightly better across the board than the given parameters provided by FiiO. All of my FiiO devices (E12A; A5; K3; BTR5) have been like this; performing better than advertised.


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> That is Peak-to-Peak Voltage aka 'effective' voltage (Vpp)! You are thinking of *Vrms* which is "average" voltage or "actually seen" voltage in layman's terms.
> *Fiio A5 Vrms is 5.29V *(see below for more details).
> 
> 1.8V is a testing measurement only... after leveled to 2Vrms for a High Performance Sine Wave @ 1kHz and give a 2.5Vrms analog input signal. This allows for consistency in testing across multiple devices but it is not always a "full" reflection of the device's capabilities and circuit design considerations. I wish that both manufacturers and testers/reviewers would better (more clearly) explain these parameters as it often times can be unintentionally misleading.
> ...


Thanks Mr @WoodyLuvr, even the manufacturer does not know this information


----------



## Ronion

I think my best bet for a positive response is through Venture Electronics.  They seem to be good people who want to run an honest company, and not the fly by night type.

that’s awesome Woody!  Thank you.  The ASR measurements agree with your measurements, experience and calculations.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

furyossa said:


> Thanks Mr @WoodyLuvr, even the manufacturer does not know this information


They do but since both *analog signal source input values* and *headphone impedance/sensitivity ratings* are all over the board it is extremely difficult for manufacturers to provide meaningful and consistent parameters that the consumer will experience in real-life. Though I would whole heartedly agree that some manufacturers' given parameters are rather sparse and enigmatic leaving the customer thoroughly perplexed and wanting for more... LOL!


----------



## Ronion

Well, I’ve got another conundrum: my A5 is definitely the better amplifier technically speaking, but the little bear is generally more enjoyable even though it hides more details and it is less dynamic.  It’s strange to me that I prefer more detailed, more dynamic speakers, but for some reason a less detailed amp sounds ‘better’.  I haven’t had a moment of fatigue with it and though the A5 has never made me feel fatigue in the past, it now seems fatiguing.  Audio is definitely a quirky hobby.  My sense of hearing makes no sense at all I’m afraid.   Maybe it’s just the new toy?  It’s weird because I still enjoy my more detailed buds on the less detailed and dynamic amp.  You can still hear all the same details on the little bear, they just don’t bring as much attention to themselves and they’re less clearly delineated.  I wouldn’t try to hinder anyone from trying this cheap, battery powered tube amp.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Ronion said:


> Well, I’ve got another conundrum: my A5 is definitely the better amplifier technically speaking, but the little bear is generally more enjoyable even though it hides more details and it is less dynamic.  It’s strange to me that I prefer more detailed, more dynamic speakers, but for some reason a less detailed amp sounds ‘better’.  I haven’t had a moment of fatigue with it and though the A5 has never made me feel fatigue in the past, it now seems fatiguing.  Audio is definitely a quirky hobby.  My sense of hearing makes no sense at all I’m afraid.   Maybe it’s just the new toy?  It’s weird because I still enjoy my more detailed buds on the less detailed and dynamic amp.  You can still hear all the same details on the little bear, they just don’t bring as much attention to themselves and they’re less clearly delineated.  I wouldn’t try to hinder anyone from trying this cheap, battery powered tube amp.


I'm so glad you're over the moon with the B4-X. It should only get better with time.

The only other battery-powered amp that doesn't have a brain (like the Qudelix) is a Headroom Total Airhead. That little guy, on 4 AA batteries, can produce a wall of sound. Best hardware crossfeed ever, too.

But it's all fun and games until the battery runs out


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jul 25, 2021)

Now this is a nice, mellow combo for a Sunday afternoon. The M2s foams are starting to get softer and more plush. Midbass is starting to round out, though there's still too much of a hump trough in the upper bass that's throwing my ears off. There's some really close moments with strummed acoustic guitars here until you realize some of the fundamentals aren't there. It's close, though, and really impressive if your ears aren't quite as spoiled.

For under $100, though, it's an amazing performance. I highly recommend


----------



## Ronion

Well, just that fast and Little Bear has developed intermittent crackling in the right side.  I've tried different cables and sources and the problem remains.  Sad because when it's not doing it, the sound is glorious.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Ronion said:


> Well, just that fast and Little Bear has developed intermittent crackling in the right side.  I've tried different cables and sources and the problem remains.  Sad because when it's not doing it, the sound is glorious.


May need to scrub the volume pot. With everything off and the battery disconnected, you can saturate a q-tip and run it around the volume knob. Give that knob a few swirls and let everything dry. It can help.

If not that, then might be the OPAMPs. Wouldn't be too sure how to troubleshoot it down to the component level.


----------



## Ronion

I will try cleaning the volu pot.  When I first opened it, the volume pot was super smooth.  Now it’s not…


----------



## Ronion

I found the problem!  There are 2 adjustment screws near the base of the tubes.  Twisted them a little and it's now perfect!  The fix was actually in the manual.  Believe it or not it actual sounds better than it did before due to less his is both channels.


----------



## siderak

Did laundry and discovered my missing RY4S’s as I was transferring the load into the dryer. The foams were still on. 
I let them sit for 3 days and happy to report, they sound exactly as they did before a double cold cycle! I even compared them to an identical set.
Shocked.


----------



## baskingshark

siderak said:


> Did laundry and discovered my missing RY4S’s as I was transferring the load into the dryer. The foams were still on.
> I let them sit for 3 days and happy to report, they sound exactly as they did before a double cold cycle! I even compared them to an identical set.
> Shocked.



This is called good QC check!

"Wash in" is the new Burn in!


----------



## siderak

baskingshark said:


> This is called good QC check!
> 
> "Wash in" is the new Burn in!


Ha ha for sure!!! 
hypoallergenic scent free detergent in case anyone was wondering…


----------



## samandhi

siderak said:


> Ha ha for sure!!!
> hypoallergenic scent free detergent in case anyone was wondering…


I guess there really IS a hands off approach to washing those foams.

Well, that is solved. Now we just need to figure out what happens to all those socks that somehow end up losing their mate in the dryer?!


----------



## MelodyMood

*Query:* _I noticed that there are many options of JCALLY Earbuds. EP01, EP02, EP05, EP08 and EP09. Not sure if there are 04, 06 etc. also there or not. My query is, which is the best in them in terms of sound quality and build quality. Also, EP05 has  MMCX Connector Cable, however, I am not sure abt the cable quality and also do not like L Shape 3.5mm Plug and prefer straight one. Is it possible to buy only the Earbud and not cable if I decide to buy EP05? Otherwise which is better option for beautiful Airy sound with good Bass and clear but not harsh vocals and trebles.   _


----------



## Ronion

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Now this is a nice, mellow combo for a Sunday afternoon. The M2s foams are starting to get softer and more plush. Midbass is starting to round out, though there's still too much of a hump trough in the upper bass that's throwing my ears off. There's some really close moments with strummed acoustic guitars here until you realize some of the fundamentals aren't there. It's close, though, and really impressive if your ears aren't quite as spoiled.
> 
> For under $100, though, it's an amazing performance. I highly recommend


I've been listening to classical piano music with this combo (120Ohm driver) for a full battery length on the Little Bear and it's the closest thing I've had to a religious experience in a while.  I needed it!  Can you delve more deeply into the difference(s) with the better op amps and have you tried others?


----------



## Ronion

My prediction for 2025 is that the "Earbud" cycle will be a standard feature on all high end washing machines with lesser machines equipped with and "IEM" mode internationally.  Just saying.


----------



## ian91

Ronion said:


> My prediction for 2025 is that the "Earbud" cycle will be a standard feature on all high end washing machines with lesser machines equipped with and "IEM" mode internationally.  Just saying.



Haha. You can get an IEM vacuum, now all I need is a desktop earbud washing machine. Make it happen Venture Electronics!


----------



## Ronion

LOL! Who knew?  I would have never actually thought of that.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

MelodyMood said:


> *Query:* _I noticed that there are many options of JCALLY Earbuds. EP01, EP02, EP05, EP08 and EP09. Not sure if there are 04, 06 etc. also there or not. My query is, which is the best in them in terms of sound quality and build quality. Also, EP05 has  MMCX Connector Cable, however, I am not sure abt the cable quality and also do not like L Shape 3.5mm Plug and prefer straight one. Is it possible to buy only the Earbud and not cable if I decide to buy EP05? Otherwise which is better option for beautiful Airy sound with good Bass and clear but not harsh vocals and trebles.   _



_*source:* *(DAC/AMP/DAP/PC/smartphone)*_
_*preferred connection: *straight 3.5SE (3.5mm unbalanced)_
_*listening level & time:* *(volume and for how long)*_
_*listening environment:* *(mobile/office desk/home desktop/listening room)*_
_*preferred sound signature:* neutral to warm; w/ bass; not bright_
_*preferred genre:* *(rock, heavy metal, pop, classical, OST, hip-hop, R&B, Korean-Pop, EDM, podcasts, audiobooks, etc.)*_
_*preferred shell type:* JCALLY Pseudo-Bell = Type IV: Other Variant_
_*price range: *JCALLY = >USD35_


----------



## 1Q84

Just want to give some impressions on the somehow hyped Faaeal Iris Ancestor(Clear Black).

Initial listen is that it sounds too smooth and congested for my taste.
Tried to threw some songs from Men I Trust and IU, and somehow immediately noticed something wonky with the vocals specifically.
Female vocals sounded too recessed and somehow disjointed.
A/Bing with my <10$ earbud benchmark, the Kube V1(Orange),
the vocals sounds more fuller, more resolving and better timbre on the Kube.

Overall, probably one of the worst transducer I have heard along with the BIE.

For reference, here is my ranking for the <10$ earbuds so far:
Kube V1(Orange) >>> Tingo TC200 > Yincrow X6(w/EQ) > Vido > Faaeal Iris Ancestor

Also received the M2s pro though I haven't tried it yet, will try to compare it with my current best basshead earbud, the Willsound Mk2 in the coming days.


----------



## baskingshark (Jul 26, 2021)

Some goodies I bought from the last sale have come in the mail.

*(I smuggled them in when the wife went out to the market shhhhhh).*




Ok we won't talk about the E1DA 9038D dongle, but suffice to say, that dongle is a beast that can drive anything from high sensitivity low impedance multi driver IEMs to highly demanding headphones, very neutralish and great technicalities too. Zero hiss with a dark background, but it is a power hog haha.



Ok so the 150 ohm Black Gold drivers are the focus here. Yes I've put them in the M2S Pro shell. It does have a tinge more subbass than the original M2S Pro drivers.

*So the million dollar question is does the M2S Pro 150 ohm combination sound the same as the original SMABAT ST10S Black Gold?*
Doing some A/B testing of the M2S Pro 150 ohm driver versus the original SMABAT ST10S Black Gold, both have good subbass extension that can rival non basshead IEMs, but the M2S Pro 150 ohm doesn't sound exactly the same as the original Black Gold in tonality. In terms of technicalities, they are thereabouts, but the M2S Pro 150 ohm is still brighter with a more pronounced upper mids/treble and thinner note weight and more clarity. The original Black Gold is warmer and thicker in note weight. This is with full foams on both of em, and when volume matched and when amped. 

So the shell housing/material and perhaps dampers inside do affect the sound, even with the same drivers used.


----------



## nymz

baskingshark said:


> *(I smuggled them in when the wife went out to the market shhhhhh).*



This made me giggle. Can relate. Everything costs 10 bucks for me 😂

Congrats! I love my golden driver on M2S pro  hope you like it too


----------



## furyossa (Jul 26, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> So the shell housing/material and perhaps dampers inside do affect the sound, even with the same drivers used.


Exactly.
You don't have to think twice. If there is already a difference between the M2 Pro and M2s Pro models (with the same driver)
then there is nothing to discuss when it comes to shells that are different in every way

If your wife see your post you will probably feel a "greater power of impact" on your back than it has E1DA 9038D  
BTW... congrats!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Ronion said:


> I've been listening to classical piano music with this combo (120Ohm driver) for a full battery length on the Little Bear and it's the closest thing I've had to a religious experience in a while.  I needed it!  Can you delve more deeply into the difference(s) with the better op amps and have you tried others?


Not so much the differences between, but here's a good writeup from Sparkos as to why they matter:

https://sparkoslabs.com/discrete-op-amps/

I'll leave someone more experienced than I to explain the differences between a MUSES02 and V6 Vivid, but the biggest differentiator in our cases seems to be power handling. I had a choice between the V5i-D and the V6 to test out, but since this is a battery-powered unit, didn't want to affect battery life too much and opted for the V5i-D.

But these tubes do wonderful things to guitars, strings, and pianos (the grander, the greater). Throw some cello tracks on it and get ready for chills:


----------



## WoodyLuvr

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Not so much the differences between, but here's a good writeup from Sparkos as to why they matter:
> 
> https://sparkoslabs.com/discrete-op-amps/
> 
> ...



Thank you for sharing that Rose Riebl piano track. I bought it!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

WoodyLuvr said:


> Thank you for sharing that Rose Riebl piano track. I bought it!


Was trying to figure out who would appreciate it. Glad you did! This is just beautiful music. Album is in my buy queue as well


----------



## Ronion

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Not so much the differences between, but here's a good writeup from Sparkos as to why they matter:
> 
> https://sparkoslabs.com/discrete-op-amps/
> 
> ...



Thank you for that!   I may just buy the Sparkos…. They make a great, objective case for their circuit.  They are not cheap though.  The sound field with the M2s pro 150 Ohm with the Little Bear is mind blowing. After a fresh charge last night I listened until I fell asleep.  Any bowed string, piano, guitar, etc just sounds lush.  I do wish there was a bit more mid bass in the M2s pro, but that’s a personal preference thing.  The soundstage and detail easily make up for it in my mind.  I’ve got a feeling that the Gold is probably perfection for me…


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Ronion said:


> Thank you for that!   I may just buy the Sparkos…. They make a great, objective case for their circuit.  They are not cheap though.  The sound field with the M2s pro 150 Ohm with the Little Bear is mind blowing. After a fresh charge last night I listened until I fell asleep.  Any bowed string, piano, guitar, etc just sounds lush.  I do wish there was a bit more mid bass in the M2s pro, but that’s a personal preference thing.  The soundstage and detail easily make up for it in my mind.  I’ve got a feeling that the Gold is probably perfection for me…


I assume you're talking about the 150-ohm titanium-plated version ($18/ea)?

https://www.smabat.com/products/m-a-driver-m2-pro-module?variant=35225531449509


----------



## nymz

So glad to see everyone is liking golden driver as well! I'll try to do some impressions in the next days of LBBS and try to compare them!


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Thank you for that!   I may just buy the Sparkos…. They make a great, objective case for their circuit.  They are not cheap though.  The sound field with the M2s pro 150 Ohm with the Little Bear is mind blowing. After a fresh charge last night I listened until I fell asleep.  Any bowed string, piano, guitar, etc just sounds lush.  I do wish there was a bit more mid bass in the M2s pro, but that’s a personal preference thing.  The soundstage and detail easily make up for it in my mind.  I’ve got a feeling that the Gold is probably perfection for me…


Glad to hear you have found a great synergy (for your ears)! @miserybeforethemusic has talked that thing up since he got his new parts and pieces for it... 

 I finally received my M2S Pro today, and am listening as I type this. So far they sound really good. I haven't used them long enough to compare them to the Chaconne yet, but they are similar sounding ATM. The biggest difference is in the bass. The quantity of the bass is more in the M2S Pro, but not a ton, and the bass seems faster on the Chaconne. The upper presence area is a bit boosted over the Chaconne, making the clarity seem similar. But I find the upper end is quite a bit darker in comparison if you take away that upper presence boost. 

Anyhow the ST10S aren't due for another 2 weeks (even though I ordered them before the M2S Pro), so I should have plenty of time to get these burned-in (or whatever).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Gloomy day for Los Angeles. Woke up feeling pretty crummy as well, so decided to give my ears a rest (and a good washing).

This little guy showed up today





Dang, that photographs pretty nicely for a set of plastic buds. Might look better with some flair...



Perfect! Hey, gotta do something to work the bends out, right? This works surprisingly well and I can adjust the weighting. Can't wait to listen to this thing.


----------



## nymz

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Gloomy day for Los Angeles. Woke up feeling pretty crummy as well, so decided to give my ears a rest (and a good washing).
> 
> This little guy showed up today
> 
> ...



Curious to ear your opinions on them. I almost pulled the trigger on the gold 120ohm version. My monk metal is on the way


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Gloomy day for Los Angeles. Woke up feeling pretty crummy as well, so decided to give my ears a rest (and a good washing).
> 
> This little guy showed up today
> 
> ...


LOL When you said it might look better with some flair, for some reason I thought you were going to say that you were going to Bedazzle them (those with kids KNOW you thought it too)....  BTW! Is that a disco ball hanging from your air vent? 🤣

Gratz on your treasure! I am Interested to hear your impressions on them. Didn't you order a couple of the VEs?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> LOL When you said it might look better with some flair, for some reason I thought you were going to say that you were going to Bedazzle them (those with kids KNOW you thought it too)....  BTW! Is that a disco ball hanging from your air vent? 🤣


What, you don't have one in your living room? It's been a permanent fixture in ours since summer last year. Happens to make a fantastic tool for flattening bent headphone cables. Usually takes a bit of time and weight, but the improvement is tangible:




samandhi said:


> Gratz on your treasure! I am Interested to hear your impressions on them. Didn't you order a couple of the VEs?


Just the Monk Lite for now. Don't want to overwhelm myself.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> What, you don't have one in your living room? It's been a permanent fixture in ours since summer last year. Happens to make a fantastic tool for flattening bent headphone cables. Usually takes a bit of time and weight, but the improvement is tangible:


ROFL That is just fantastic!


miserybeforethemusic said:


> Just the Monk Lite for now. Don't want to overwhelm myself.


That seems sensible. Have you gotten a good feel for the M2S Pro yet? I know you haven't had those long either?!


----------



## chinmie

miserybeforethemusic said:


> What, you don't have one in your living room? It's been a permanent fixture in ours since summer last year. Happens to make a fantastic tool for flattening bent headphone cables. Usually takes a bit of time and weight, but the improvement is tangible:
> 
> 
> 
> Just the Monk Lite for now. Don't want to overwhelm myself.



if you have a hair dryer around, it also works great to straightening cables, and also to form-fit earhooks


----------



## Ronion

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I assume you're talking about the 150-ohm titanium-plated version ($18/ea)?
> 
> https://www.smabat.com/products/m-a-driver-m2-pro-module?variant=35225531449509


Yes, but they come in a pair and I believe they just had a sale on them that is no more.


----------



## MelodyMood

MelodyMood said:


> *Query:* _I noticed that there are many options of JCALLY Earbuds. EP01, EP02, EP05, EP08 and EP09. Not sure if there are 04, 06 etc. also there or not. My query is, which is the best in them in terms of sound quality and build quality. Also, EP05 has  MMCX Connector Cable, however, I am not sure abt the cable quality and also do not like L Shape 3.5mm Plug and prefer straight one. Is it possible to buy only the Earbud and not cable if I decide to buy EP05? Otherwise which is better option for beautiful Airy sound with good Bass and clear but not harsh vocals and trebles.   _





MelodyMood said:


> *Query:* _I noticed that there are many options of JCALLY Earbuds. EP01, EP02, EP05, EP08 and EP09. Not sure if there are 04, 06 etc. also there or not. My query is, which is the best in them in terms of sound quality and build quality. Also, EP05 has  MMCX Connector Cable, however, I am not sure abt the cable quality and also do not like L Shape 3.5mm Plug and prefer straight one. Is it possible to buy only the Earbud and not cable if I decide to buy EP05? Otherwise which is better option for beautiful Airy sound with good Bass and clear but not harsh vocals and trebles.   _


Can anyone pls reply to my query above? Thanks.


----------



## samandhi

MelodyMood said:


> *Query:* _I noticed that there are many options of JCALLY Earbuds. EP01, EP02, EP05, EP08 and EP09. Not sure if there are 04, 06 etc. also there or not. My query is, which is the best in them in terms of sound quality and build quality. Also, EP05 has  MMCX Connector Cable, however, I am not sure abt the cable quality and also do not like L Shape 3.5mm Plug and prefer straight one. Is it possible to buy only the Earbud and not cable if I decide to buy EP05? Otherwise which is better option for beautiful Airy sound with good Bass and clear but not harsh vocals and trebles.   _


I'm sorry, but I have not heard any of those you mentioned. 

But, I think @WoodyLuvr answered your question with another question. If you provide the information he is asking for, I think people might better be able to help you with your choices. In the end though it will still come down to what YOU think is best. 


WoodyLuvr said:


> _*source:* *(DAC/AMP/DAP/PC/smartphone)*_
> _*preferred connection: *straight 3.5SE (3.5mm unbalanced)_
> _*listening level & time:* *(volume and for how long)*_
> _*listening environment:* *(mobile/office desk/home desktop/listening room)*_
> ...


----------



## MelodyMood (Jul 27, 2021)

samandhi said:


> I'm sorry, but I have not heard any of those you mentioned.
> 
> But, I think @WoodyLuvr answered your question with another question. If you provide the information he is asking for, I think people might better be able to help you with your choices. In the end though it will still come down to what YOU think is best.


They are available on AliExpress. I EP01, 02, 05 are different models so I was wondering which one has better sound quality for  nice warm sound with good level of Bass as well as Clarity. Also, if EP05 is MMCX Earbud, so I was wondering if we can buy only earbud and not the cable? if there is any such option?

Alternatively, is there any other earbud which has good Warm Sound with good Clarity but good Bass too. Recently I ordered KBear but it is not good at all. I have Monk+ but that is 3rd one which is now almost broken. I need to change its 3.5mm plug but not sure how to do that? Others which I have are Yincrow but broken, TP16, FiiO EM3 and Faael Iris. Looking for 1-2 good alternative and Mic is must for that.

*Update: *How is KSearphone K64 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002878376465.html) or This one - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32407052685.html

Any idea or review? KSearphone is with L type connector so may not consider that. But any view on T-Music T1, T2 etc. series? How are they?


----------



## furyossa

Interesting little device
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003009205497.html


----------



## samandhi

MelodyMood said:


> They are available on AliExpress. I EP01, 02, 05 are different models so I was wondering which one has better sound quality for  nice warm sound with good level of Bass as well as Clarity. Also, if EP05 is MMCX Earbud, so I was wondering if we can buy only earbud and not the cable? if there is any such option?
> 
> Alternatively, is there any other earbud which has good Warm Sound with good Clarity but good Bass too. Recently I ordered KBear but it is not good at all. I have Monk+ but that is 3rd one which is now almost broken. I need to change its 3.5mm plug but not sure how to do that? Others which I have are Yincrow but broken, TP16, FiiO EM3 and Faael Iris. Looking for 1-2 good alternative and Mic is must for that.


I don't think you will get many recommendations until you fill out the questions I re-posted, because unlike IEMs/headphones, the questions being asked (that you have yet to answer) effect earbuds drastically in some cases. For example, volume matters because some buds are pretty harsh at higher levels, but sound immensely better at lower levels. The type of music is important because what might be harsh with metal, could sound fairly warm(ish) with classical. Source also colors the way they sound, etc... 

I can tell you this; it is very rare that you can buy just the buds themselves without a cable, even if it is detachable. If you buy them second hand you might be able to do this though.


----------



## samandhi

furyossa said:


> Interesting little device
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003009205497.html



The stuff they come up with these days?! LOL


----------



## furyossa

samandhi said:


> The stuff they come up with these days?! LOL


I don't see any andentage using it. You?
BTW... I like the idea


----------



## WoodyLuvr

furyossa said:


> I don't see any andentage using it. You?
> BTW... I like the idea


To be the first kid on the block to have one of course! I wonder if the white/pink noise that it produces would be good for tinnitus? Yes, I am an enabler!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 27, 2021)

Being the minimalist that I am, I am quite relieved to report that I am finally down to three (3) earbuds again.

A month or so back I was sitting on nearly thirty plus earbuds and a good number of dacs & amps which I have since managed to sell, trade, and/or gift away... not including those items that my daughter and wife continually, and quite illegally, procure from me! I have resigned myself to the fact that I most likely will never ever see my Turandots nor BTR5 again 😥. I don't even know where my wife hides them when not in use... I desperately hunted around for them but to no avail!

Here are the earbuds currently residing in my stable and why:
​
*Signature Role*​*Listening Duration*​*Brand*​*Model*​*Impedance*​Critical Listening​Short Sessions​Blur​OFC MX64 aPs Special Tuning Edition​64Ω​Fun​Medium-Long Sessions​Blur​256 PK16 White Face​16Ω​Warm & Smooth​Ultralong Sessions​Ksearphone​Temperament 钛铃 Bell-Ti​120Ω​

It would be nice to hear, from fellow rabid earbud enthusiasts, what you consider your top three earbuds are and why... or four... or five... or six... !


----------



## baskingshark

WoodyLuvr said:


> Being the minimalist that I am, I am quite relieved to report that I am finally down to three (3) earbuds again.
> 
> A month or so back I was sitting on nearly thirty plus earbuds and a good number of dacs & amps which I have since managed to sell, trade, and/or gift away... not including those items that my daughter and wife continually, and quite illegally, procure from me! I have resigned myself to the fact that I most likely will never ever see my Turandots nor BTR5 again 😥. I don't even know where my wife hides them when not in use... I desperately hunted around for them but to no avail!
> 
> ...



My current rotated earbuds are, in no particular ranking:
1) Yincrow RW2000 
2) SMABAT ST10
3) SMABAT ST10S Black Gold
4) SMABAT M2S Pro
5) FAAEAL Rosemary
6) K's Nameless
7) NiceHCK ME80
8) NiceHCK EBX21

Honorable mention goes to Yincrow X6, which I occasionally use for the yummy bass, if not @RikudouGoku will make issue if it is not mentioned here haha.


----------



## nymz

WoodyLuvr said:


> Being the minimalist that I am, I am quite relieved to report that I am finally down to three (3) earbuds again.
> 
> A month or so back I was sitting on nearly thirty plus earbuds and a good number of dacs & amps which I have since managed to sell, trade, and/or gift away... not including those items that my daughter and wife continually, and quite illegally, procure from me! I have resigned myself to the fact that I most likely will never ever see my Turandots nor BTR5 again 😥. I don't even know where my wife hides them when not in use... I desperately hunted around for them but to no avail!
> 
> ...



Great initiative. Gotta say Im jealous of that list. All 3 are my radar. I intend to grab one flagship from k's after hearing LBBS. Blur has always been endgame for me, but not before I find my preferences set in stone.

At the moment im using for:

* Critical listening: Zen 2.0 SLQ 320ohm - Lovely bud. Still want to wait for my RAP5 before going into final conclusions. Not easy to drive, more of a stationary bud. Worst confort and isolation of the 3. Short to medium sessions. Close to open back headphones. Theres some magic done in these by KK. 

* All-rounder balanced warm/fun: Smabat M2S Pro with the 150ohm golden driver - Lovely bass but more balanced than the stock driver. Very good overall, very good isolation, very good confort. My go to for music enjoyment.

* Grab'n'Go/Perfect confort/Dongle usage/Sleep: K's Temperament LBBS 30ohm - most perfect fit for my ears. Its like im using nothing, can even sleep with it. Even if I prefer the sound of the above buds, this is my grab and go with a dongle. Easy to drive, very nice signature sound, pounchs way above its price. Love them!

* Honorable mentions: X6 and Monk+ SPC


----------



## Ronion

I’ve got 2 buds that are truly special: 

1) the SMABAT M2s Pro with the 150Ohm Gold drivers in them (they are still quite nice with the 40Ohm drivers in them, but I do prefer the 150Ohm with an amp) and 

2) the Earbuds Anonymous Earbuds.  

They are in fact my 2 favorite headphones and I shamefully have a ton of them.

Beyond that, other buds I enjoy are my Yincrow X6, QianYun Qian69, and the ShoonTH.  The ShoonTH is probably my favorite of the three (at the moment), but it really depends on my mood.


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Being the minimalist that I am, I am quite relieved to report that I am finally down to three (3) earbuds again.
> 
> A month or so back I was sitting on nearly thirty plus earbuds and a good number of dacs & amps which I have since managed to sell, trade, and/or gift away... not including those items that my daughter and wife continually, and quite illegally, procure from me! I have resigned myself to the fact that I most likely will never ever see my Turandots nor BTR5 again 😥. I don't even know where my wife hides them when not in use... I desperately hunted around for them but to no avail!
> 
> ...


Well, if I could only keep 3 buds.


Yincrow X6
Smabat M2S Pro
Moondrop Chaconne


----------



## SolaVirtus

For me the Yincrow RW-2000 and Newbsound X made by @irv003 get the most time. 

I've a K's 300 for at the office  and a few budget sets for exercise (X6 and RY4S). 

A set of Blur buds from Master Wong is on the way. I don't have 30 sets, but clearing out much of the rest is in the future for me.


----------



## 1Q84

The M2s pro I received has a stripped wire coating on the black coated wire. Its kinda buffling how they package these, the wires seems exposed and can really be an issue especially during transport.


----------



## furyossa (Jul 27, 2021)

> Being the minimalist that I am, I am quite relieved to report that I am finally down to three (3) earbuds again.
> 
> A month or so back I was sitting on nearly thirty plus earbuds and a good number of dacs & amps which I have since managed to sell, trade, and/or gift away... not including those items that my daughter and wife continually, and quite illegally, procure from me! I have resigned myself to the fact that I most likely will never ever see my Turandots nor BTR5 again 😥. *I don't even know where my wife hides them when not in use... I desperately hunted around for them but to no avail!*
> Here are the earbuds currently residing in my stable and why:
> *It would be nice to hear, from fellow rabid earbud enthusiasts, what you consider your top three earbuds are and why... or four... or five... or six... !*


I'm more oriented toward DIY drivers.
- DIY 400ohm graphene (500ohm graphene is probably the best DIY driver out there, but not have them)
- DIY 150ohm "Red Film"
- DIY 130ohm Beryllium

Modded branded versions
- HiFI Boy Dream (MX500 mod)
- HE150Pro (MX500 mod)
- ShoonTH ESEP-01BL (swapped cable mod)

BTW...did you check jewelry box?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 27, 2021)

furyossa said:


> BTW...did you check jewelry box?


First place I looked! She is part flying squirrel so hundreds, if not thousands, of clever stashes all about... it is a lost cause for me really.


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> First place I looked! She is part flying squirrel so hundreds, if not thousands, of clever stashes all about... it is a lost cause for me really.


  
She knows you very well 
I think you'll end up installing security cameras all over the apartment or hiring a private investigator


----------



## dissociativity (Jul 27, 2021)

I'm surprised I don't hear much praise for the 1more E1008 despite how they sound with a decent source at higher volumes, feels like a tiny full sized open back, my HE150 Pro isn't far behind in my earbud preferences, and my Nicehck DIY MX500 isn't far behind that, shame I don't have the B40 anymore, loved that, was hoping to get one with a mic as an EDC since any media always was so easy to listen to on it, even bad voice recordings in youtube and podcasts, phone calls.


----------



## sarkar1990

WoodyLuvr said:


> Being the minimalist that I am, I am quite relieved to report that I am finally down to three (3) earbuds again.
> 
> A month or so back I was sitting on nearly thirty plus earbuds and a good number of dacs & amps which I have since managed to sell, trade, and/or gift away... not including those items that my daughter and wife continually, and quite illegally, procure from me! I have resigned myself to the fact that I most likely will never ever see my Turandots nor BTR5 again 😥. I don't even know where my wife hides them when not in use... I desperately hunted around for them but to no avail!
> 
> ...



1. Zen 2.0 
2. Moonbuds Bunting Premium
3. RY4S 300ohm (detachable ones.. don't remember if these were Plus or not)..

Apart from these, I have kept 1 WillSound MK32 special edition (but the right side has started buzzing and I hope to repair it one day)..

Rest have been sold or lost or.. as you say.. procured illegally by my better half. 

Now I looking for a portable DAC-AMP to run the Zen with authority.. it already sounds pretty good from my BTR5.. Don't want to cross the $100-$150 budget.


----------



## nymz

dissociativity said:


> I'm surprised I don't hear much praise for the 1more E1008 despite how they sound with a decent source at higher volumes, feels like a tiny full sized open back, my HE150 Pro isn't far behind in my earbud preferences, and my Nicehck DIY MX500 isn't far behind that, shame I don't have the B40 anymore, loved that, was hoping to get one with a mic as an EDC since any media always was so easy to listen to on it, even bad voice recordings in youtube and podcasts, phone calls.



I have the e1008. As much as I like some aspects of its signature and its build quality, it cant compete with some of my 10usd buds, let alone rival the price bracket. 

They are very good for someone that hates bass and wants a cold signature.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

furyossa said:


> I don't see any andentage using it. You?
> BTW... I like the idea


I have concerns, honestly. How does the thing account for differences in sensitivity/loudness between pairs? Would seem wildly inconsistent.

Besides, half the fun is running music through these while they go through Schrödinger's Break-In.


1Q84 said:


> The M2s pro I received has a stripped wire coating on the black coated wire. Its kinda buffling how they package these, the wires seems exposed and can really be an issue especially during transport.


Yeah, it caught me off guard that they have the wires just out and about like that, but it makes sense from a "wow look..._wires_" perspective.

If you think you're dextrous enough to cover that bare wire, they do make liquid electrical tape. It's not the most fun stuff around to work with, but a dab of that on a Q-tip might help you out with the exposed wire. Ideally, you'd want to wrap a small strip of electrical tape or heat string around it.


----------



## Ronion

I was scared too when I first opened my M2s Pro.  From the looks of it, I was fortunate to get a good set.  The thread is nearly even on good vs. bad sets.  Even though it’s costlier, the ST-10 Silver or Gold might be the best bet.  If you have an amp or intend to buy one, get the Gold.  Otherwise the Silver should still sound sweet on the go.

I still want to play with the M0… So cheap considering the SMABAT drivers capabilities.


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> I'm more oriented toward DIY drivers.
> - DIY 400ohm graphene (500ohm graphene is probably the best DIY driver out there, but not have them)
> - DIY 150ohm "Red Film"
> - DIY 130ohm Beryllium


Ditto.

14.8mm DIY drivers:
150Ω Redfilm
32Ω Ti
64Ω N55


----------



## samandhi

furyossa said:


> I don't see any andentage using it. You?
> BTW... I like the idea


Not really. Normally I don't even break them in by laying them down. I just keep them in my ears for 40-200 (only removing for showers and what-not)...  I can see it selling well though. I think it is more of a prestige item IMO... 

Having said that, like @WoodyLuvr said, I'll probably have one at some point (stoopid obsessions)... 


I can't name my favorite three because I have only gotten mine and there are but two at the moment. I still have the ST10S on the way, and it looks like Ucotech doesn't want to sell me any (they even registered my email address as spam upon trying to send my third email to them). Not kidding! I REALLY wanted to try the ES-P1, and the ES1003 Red Diva too.

So my list is like this:
Moondrop Chaconne
M2S Pro

Both are excellent in different ways.


----------



## nymz

Still bumed I didnt get chaconne on the summer sale... Better price and no VAT. Soon


----------



## Ronion

Is the Cachonne 2 different from the Cachonne that thread members have?


----------



## n00b

There is no Chaconne 2. If you see a product listing saying Chaconne 2nd Generation it likely means it is the successor to a similar, older 2019 earbud from moondrop, the Liebesleid


----------



## emusic13

WoodyLuvr said:


> It would be nice to hear, from fellow rabid earbud enthusiasts, what you consider your top three earbuds are and why... or four... or five... or six... !


Current Top 3  No order:
Newbsound Bio
Newbsound LCP
OMX 980


----------



## chinmie

WoodyLuvr said:


> Being the minimalist that I am, I am quite relieved to report that I am finally down to three (3) earbuds again.
> 
> A month or so back I was sitting on nearly thirty plus earbuds and a good number of dacs & amps which I have since managed to sell, trade, and/or gift away... not including those items that my daughter and wife continually, and quite illegally, procure from me! I have resigned myself to the fact that I most likely will never ever see my Turandots nor BTR5 again 😥. I don't even know where my wife hides them when not in use... I desperately hunted around for them but to no avail!
> 
> ...



i haven't had any new earbuds to my collection in a long time, and if i have to choose just 3 of them to be content with, i probably would go with:
1. Liebesleid
2. Willsound PK16
3. Edifier H185 (MMCX mod)


----------



## 40760

chinmie said:


> i haven't had any new earbuds to my collection in a long time, and if i have to choose just 3 of them to be content with, i probably would go with:
> 1. Liebesleid
> 2. Willsound PK16
> 3. Edifier H185 (MMCX mod)



Liebesleid is a great set, but it gets a bit uncomfortable due to the weight. Still the one I miss the most, along with original BK.


----------



## MelodyMood

samandhi said:


> I don't think you will get many recommendations until you fill out the questions I re-posted, because unlike IEMs/headphones, the questions being asked (that you have yet to answer) effect earbuds drastically in some cases. For example, volume matters because some buds are pretty harsh at higher levels, but sound immensely better at lower levels. The type of music is important because what might be harsh with metal, could sound fairly warm(ish) with classical. Source also colors the way they sound, etc...
> 
> I can tell you this; it is very rare that you can buy just the buds themselves without a cable, even if it is detachable. If you buy them second hand you might be able to do this though.


I usually listen to Hindi Language Music  and in English I like Pop, R&Bs and Rock too. But most of the times I usually do not listen at the higher volume and use PowerAmp Premium version App through my phone to listen to the music. But if there is any other better App, I can switch to that too.


----------



## jao29

WoodyLuvr said:


> Being the minimalist that I am, I am quite relieved to report that I am finally down to three (3) earbuds again.
> 
> A month or so back I was sitting on nearly thirty plus earbuds and a good number of dacs & amps which I have since managed to sell, trade, and/or gift away... not including those items that my daughter and wife continually, and quite illegally, procure from me! I have resigned myself to the fact that I most likely will never ever see my Turandots nor BTR5 again 😥. I don't even know where my wife hides them when not in use... I desperately hunted around for them but to no avail!
> 
> ...


Hmmm my list in no particular order 😀:

1.) Ve Zen 2.0 (regular edition)
2.) Ksearphone Onmyoji
3.) Willsound mkii


----------



## MelodyMood

samandhi said:


> Not really. Normally I don't even break them in by laying them down. I just keep them in my ears for 40-200 (only removing for showers and what-not)...  I can see it selling well though. I think it is more of a prestige item IMO...
> 
> Having said that, like @WoodyLuvr said, I'll probably have one at some point (stoopid obsessions)...
> 
> ...


Is there any Moondrop earbud with Mic? I did not see any? Especially I liked Moondrop ShiroYuki (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33016218410.html) but I do not think it has Mic.


----------



## dissociativity

has anyone tried the smabat super driver with the m0 or m2s pro? they sell it on only their store, it's the same driver from their new super flagship.
I personally enjoy the comfort of the shell of the M0


----------



## nymz

dissociativity said:


> has anyone tried the smabat super driver with the m0 or m2s pro? they sell it on only their store, it's the same driver from their new super flagship.
> I personally enjoy the comfort of the shell of the M0



What super driver? Got a link? Might need this in my life


----------



## shenshen

WoodyLuvr said:


> Being the minimalist that I am, I am quite relieved to report that I am finally down to three (3) earbuds again.
> 
> A month or so back I was sitting on nearly thirty plus earbuds and a good number of dacs & amps which I have since managed to sell, trade, and/or gift away... not including those items that my daughter and wife continually, and quite illegally, procure from me! I have resigned myself to the fact that I most likely will never ever see my Turandots nor BTR5 again 😥. I don't even know where my wife hides them when not in use... I desperately hunted around for them but to no avail!
> 
> ...


1. Blur 266 MX400 aPs 400Ω: This thing lives on my desktop; While it still sounds great on lower powered sources, it really stretches its wings on my Schiit stack. Most headphone like, mid-centric sound.
2. Blur MX32 32Ω: Easy to drive, more colored than my MX400. I take it with me when I'm on the go.
3. Yincrow X6: Everyone knows why it's on the list, easily best value from my (and many others') experience.


----------



## Сomrade (Jul 28, 2021)

nymz said:


> What super driver?


* Super 100Ω drive unit  ($38.00)*
So far, the best drive of smabat technology company is almost perfect.


----------



## Ronion

dissociativity said:


> has anyone tried the smabat super driver with the m0 or m2s pro? they sell it on only their store, it's the same driver from their new super flagship.
> I personally enjoy the comfort of the shell of the M0


This is the million dollar question, but @RikudouGoku’s review makes it a tough sell.  It would be in a different housing though and that will change things to some undeterminable degree.  It’s also very tunable with their kit.  It could be interesting, but a tough sell.


----------



## nymz

Сomrade said:


> * Super 100Ω drive unit  ($38.00)*
> So far, the best drive of smabat technology company is almost perfect.


Is that the super one driver? If so im out


----------



## Ronion

MelodyMood said:


> I usually listen to Hindi Language Music  and in English I like Pop, R&Bs and Rock too. But most of the times I usually do not listen at the higher volume and use PowerAmp Premium version App through my phone to listen to the music. But if there is any other better App, I can switch to that too.


I may have missed it, but what price range are you looking for?


----------



## Сomrade

nymz said:


> Is that the super one driver?


So says "Smabat"))


----------



## nymz

Сomrade said:


> So says "Smabat"))



Would be interesting to try out, but for 35€ or something like that I dont think Ill get it just to test, after that super one review..


----------



## samandhi

nymz said:


> Would be interesting to try out, but for 35€ or something like that I dont think Ill get it just to test, after that super one review..


I would have to agree with this. I have both the M2s Pro, and the Chaconne, and so far I agree with @RikudouGoku's assessment of them (and order at which I would also place them), so I can assume that he has nailed it concerning the Super One.


----------



## ian91

WoodyLuvr said:


> Being the minimalist that I am, I am quite relieved to report that I am finally down to three (3) earbuds again.
> 
> A month or so back I was sitting on nearly thirty plus earbuds and a good number of dacs & amps which I have since managed to sell, trade, and/or gift away... not including those items that my daughter and wife continually, and quite illegally, procure from me! I have resigned myself to the fact that I most likely will never ever see my Turandots nor BTR5 again 😥. I don't even know where my wife hides them when not in use... I desperately hunted around for them but to no avail!
> 
> ...



My choices are probably obvious to some. Nonetheless, using your format, in order of enjoyment...



*Genre*​*Listening Duration (character)*​*Brand*​*Model*​*Impedance*​Instrumental / Jazz / WorldMedium-Long (mid-treble leaning, large soundstage, transparent)BlurOFC MX64 aPs Special Tuning Edition 64 
​Electronic / Ambient / Hip HopMedium-Long (bass-mid leaning, warm)Blur 266 PK16 White Face16Pop / Guitar / VocalShort (warm, mid forward)Blur266 MX300 Beautiful Witch aPs300


----------



## nymz

ian91 said:


> My choices are probably obvious to some. Nonetheless, using your format, in order of enjoyment...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You guys arent making my wallet's life easy with all this blur posts. 

FML


----------



## WoodyLuvr

nymz said:


> You guys arent making my wallet's life easy with all this blur posts.
> 
> FML


Need a fix? Go *here*


----------



## nymz

WoodyLuvr said:


> Need a fix? Go *here*



Thats already on my watch list. Been lurking it since I got into buds. 

Just gonna figure out what FR and shell I want the most. Too bad he doesnt do small bells like LBBS, or else I'd instant buy.

Thanks for you hardwork on mantaining that lists. Your links helped me a lot and I consult them very often!


----------



## bahamot

Still rocking my Turandot


----------



## WoodyLuvr

bahamot said:


> Still rocking my Turandot


Ahhh, so that's what they look like!  Rubbing it in a bit aren't you?!


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> First place I looked! She is part flying squirrel so hundreds, if not thousands, of clever stashes all about... it is a lost cause for me really.





bahamot said:


> Still rocking my Turandot


That's not nice, showing this pair in front of Mr @WoodyLuvr.  Now he never be able to forget them


----------



## bahamot

furyossa said:


> That's not nice, showing this pair in front of Mr @WoodyLuvr.  Now he never be able to forget them


Ooopss did not know what happened


----------



## furyossa (Jul 28, 2021)

bahamot said:


> Ooopss did not know what happened


It's better to stay that way 
Anyway ...  his wife now owns that model, so he has no access to them anymore.
Even restricted access would be fine, but this is not the case here 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16474986


----------



## WoodyLuvr

bahamot said:


> Ooopss did not know what happened





furyossa said:


> It's better to stay that way
> Anyway ...  his wife now owns that model, so he has no access to them anymore.
> Even restricted access would be fine, but this is not the case here
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16474986


More info *here*... I reside with a pack of thieves!


----------



## PapyKahan

WoodyLuvr said:


> Being the minimalist that I am, I am quite relieved to report that I am finally down to three (3) earbuds again.
> 
> A month or so back I was sitting on nearly thirty plus earbuds and a good number of dacs & amps which I have since managed to sell, trade, and/or gift away... not including those items that my daughter and wife continually, and quite illegally, procure from me! I have resigned myself to the fact that I most likely will never ever see my Turandots nor BTR5 again 😥. I don't even know where my wife hides them when not in use... I desperately hunted around for them but to no avail!
> 
> ...


1. Blur Beautiful Witch 300Ohm aPs
2. 14.8mm 150Ohm red film
3. 15.4mm 130Ohm LCP drivers


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Well, the NiceHCK shipment arrived. I unboxed them hours ago, but have a 3.5mm Traceless sitting in its bag, the X6 are on the desktop amp being run through, and the Monk Lite haven't been unplugged from the SR25 since they arrived.

That leaves these little guys to join me and the OnePlus 8T today. Doesn't get much more simple that this, I suppose. USB-C straight to a pair of buds. Was nice of them to include a shirt clip, I suppose. Aside from that and some full foams, no other pack-ins to speak of, so basically what you'd expect for less than 10 bucks.

The sound isn't anything to write home about, either, but it's plenty serviceable. Closer in bass quality and quantity to the Snow Lotus than it is the M2s Pro. Pretty dang decent staging for what it is, but won't win any awards.

Wish the shells were a little more comfy. The Monk Lites definitely have me spoiled there.

Haven't had much serious listening time on anything lately, so impressions of the M2s Pro and Monk Lite SPC will have to wait. Neither have dethroned the Snow Lotus for me yet (overall).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

They definitely have no sub-bass to speak of. Not much midbass, either.



Hmm. Maybe this will help.


----------



## jogawag

Monk slim metal 3.5mm express delivery has arrived!
Comes with the case, Expack lite and MX500 earbuds with mic (?) are included.

The right and left shells of the Monk slim metal have a black foam on them so you can't tell which side is which, so I immediately replaced it with a red and blue foam.

Unlike the turandot, the shell is light and I don't mind that it is metal.

The sound out of the box is straightforward, flat and much better than the Monk plus. The bass is also very good.
For $20 I think these will sell well.

Sorry, I'm busy moving house, so I'll leave the rest of the commentary to someone else.


----------



## jeejack

dissociativity said:


> has anyone tried the smabat super driver with the m0 or m2s pro? they sell it on only their store, it's the same driver from their new super flagship.
> I personally enjoy the comfort of the shell of the M0


Iess bas and mid/vocals are amaizing vs 40 and 150 ohm from what a good friend told me


----------



## RikudouGoku

Only took 5 weeks from order date to it arriving in sweden. Probably another 1-2 weeks before I have them in my hands.

Oh and if anyone forgot, these are the products in that package:

Faaeal Iris CE grey version
Faaeal Iris 2.0
Faaeal Iris Ancestor

K´s LBBS

Yincrow RW-100


----------



## Ronion

AliExpress says they are going to refund my money for the Monk Lite that never got out of China, but I had to get PayPal involved.  I’m happy to say that Venture Electronics was going to help me out, but they didn’t need to in the end.  What a mess.  I’ll be glad to actually see the money back in my account.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> AliExpress says they are going to refund my money for the Monk Lite that never got out of China, but I had to get PayPal involved.  I’m happy to say that Venture Electronics was going to help me out, but they didn’t need to in the end.  What a mess.  I’ll be glad to actually see the money back in my account.


Good for you, but sorry you didn't get your buds... Maybe try again directly through VE once the money is back in there?

On another note, I found out that my ST10S Black and Gold (from Aliexpress) are arriving tomorrow, instead of the projected Aug 09 (sorry @Ronion not trying to rub it in).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jul 29, 2021)

Oh. Is that what I was missing? Turns out the M2s likes two things:

Silver cables
Balanced power
Yeah, they woke up. Bass, midbass, subbass...It's all there. Cymbals even tizz when they should and crash when they're smashed. Consider me a happy camper.

For anybody interested:
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKV0iH9


----------



## wskl

miserybeforethemusic said:


> What, you don't have one in your living room? It's been a permanent fixture in ours since summer last year. Happens to make a fantastic tool for flattening bent headphone cables. Usually takes a bit of time and weight, but the improvement is tangible:
> 
> 
> 
> Just the Monk Lite for now. Don't want to overwhelm myself.


Many thanks for your great tip.  I hang one of my earbuds for a couple of days and it has straightened out better


----------



## MelodyMood

Ronion said:


> I may have missed it, but what price range are you looking for?


I did not mentioned the price here recently. I am not looking to spend too much and usually go with AUD $15-20 range  but for real good earbud, I can go up to $30-40 range also but it has to be worth for that money.


----------



## nymz

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Oh. Is that what I was missing? Turns out the M2s likes two things:
> 
> Silver cables
> Balanced power
> ...



It indeed does! They are a beauty with power!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

MelodyMood said:


> I did not mentioned the price here recently. I am not looking to spend too much and usually go with AUD $15-20 range  but for real good earbud, I can go up to $30-40 range also but it has to be worth for that money.


I gotta hand it to those FAAEAL Snow Lotus, bud. Fantastic timbre for 10 USD. Should be a good showing for the genres you mentioned.

Really depends on your source beyond that. What would you be running them on?


----------



## MelodyMood

miserybeforethemusic said:


> They definitely have no sub-bass to speak of. Not much midbass, either.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm. Maybe this will help.


USB-C Type is not for Music. It ruins the Sound Quality completely. You will never get any decent quality from USB C Earbuds or if you use USB-C  to 3.5mm Adaptor. USB-C is for Data Transfer and  Charging. Not for Music. 

Unfortunately these phone companies started following Apple blindly without even knowing the reason and without any rational.  Apple is not using USB C for Charging or Music.  They use Lightening Port. Due to these foolish Phone Manufactures, there is no good quality phone available hence recently I had to buy S10+ and may need to stick with them for next many 5-10 years also I guess. Any phone with 3.5mm Port is mediocre quality with rubbish processor, slow RAM and poor quality screen. Only Sony is still providing 3.5mm port in their flagship phones but Sony is not sold in Australia and also it has 3.5mm Port on Top which I do not prefer.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

MelodyMood said:


> USB-C Type is not for Music. It ruins the Sound Quality completely. You will never get any decent quality from USB C Earbuds or if you use USB-C  to 3.5mm Adaptor. USB-C is for Data Transfer and  Charging. Not for Music.
> 
> Unfortunately these phone companies started following Apple blindly without even knowing the reason and without any rational.  Apple is not using USB C for Charging or Music.  They use Lightening Port. Due to these foolish Phone Manufactures, there is no good quality phone available hence recently I had to buy S10+ and may need to stick with them for next many 5-10 years also I guess. Any phone with 3.5mm Port is mediocre quality with rubbish processor, slow RAM and poor quality screen. Only Sony is still providing 3.5mm port in their flagship phones but Sony is not sold in Australia and also it has 3.5mm Port on Top which I do not prefer.


I think they just configured the pinout for audio with those. Doubt there's even a DAC in there. It's honestly not bad for the price. Wouldn't be my first pick for a recommendation, though.

But _this_...


Could do a heck of a lot worse for $100 (includes the price I paid for the cable...it's gone back up since). Hearing the reverb on Ryan's rendition of Wonderwall was a definite first, even more so because it happened while I was outside walking the dog.

@n00b you weren't kidding, bud. These are great. A little shouty at times, but some of that might be in the recording already.


----------



## ss2625

Man, coming to this thread just makes me realize how many earbuds there are 
I have the rose masya, and was wondering if the em5 would be a step up?


----------



## MelodyMood (Jul 29, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I gotta hand it to those FAAEAL Snow Lotus, bud. Fantastic timbre for 10 USD. Should be a good showing for the genres you mentioned.
> 
> Really depends on your source beyond that. What would you be running them on?


How is the Sound Quality? It is Warm with good Clarity and Bass. I have FAAEAL Iris which is good. I have TP16, FiiO EM3 etc. but looking for better and step up now.

Just now, I was listening to Yamaha Headphone (https://www.amazon.com.au/Yamaha-HPH-50B-Compact-Closed-Back-Headphones/dp/B013WW8WRK). What a great sound quality. Detailed and Good Bass too. I know it is not possible for any Earbud to have similar or even 50% of that sound quality but if there is any earbud which has that kind of sound quality and within AUD $50 with Mic, I would surely consider that.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I think they just configured the pinout for audio with those. Doubt there's even a DAC in there. It's honestly not bad for the price. Wouldn't be my first pick for a recommendation, though.
> 
> But _this_...
> 
> ...


No, your right, they are a bit shouty, especially when the volume is turned up, like when you have to while out and about. I noticed it right off. 


MelodyMood said:


> How is the Sound Quality? It is Warm with good Clarity and Bass. I have FAAEAL Iris which is good. I have TP16, FiiO EM3 etc. but looking for better and step up now.


They don't have a mic.


----------



## MelodyMood

samandhi said:


> No, your right, they are a bit shouty, especially when the volume is turned up, like when you have to while out and about. I noticed it right off.
> 
> They don't have a mic.


Ok. Just now, I was listening to Yamaha Headphone (https://www.amazon.com.au/Yamaha-HPH-50B-Compact-Closed-Back-Headphones/dp/B013WW8WRK). What a great sound quality. Detailed and Good Bass too. I know it is not possible for any Earbud to have similar or even 50% of that sound quality but if there is any earbud which has that kind of sound quality and within AUD $40-50 with Mic, I would surely consider that.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

MelodyMood said:


> How is the Sound Quality? It is Warm with good Clarity and Bass. I have FAAEAL Iris which is good. I have TP16, FiiO EM3 etc. but looking for better and step up now.


You know...I was hoping to play them for a few minutes to confirm it, but they seem to be AWOL at the moment. I wouldn't call them warm, but there is a mild treble rolloff and bass (which is very foam and fit-dependent) is extremely articulate, but not that fast or loud. It's a better choice for chillout listening than it is for active stuff. For that, the M2s fit the bill a bit better.


samandhi said:


> No, your right, they are a bit shouty, especially when the volume is turned up, like when you have to while out and about. I noticed it right off.


Goes to show how often I listen to my stuff loud, I guess. That was at 90/150 on the SR25. Backing it down to 80 got rid of the shout, but at the expense of some dynamics.

Had to put the X6 back on the break-in bed. Still not seeing what's so special about them, but maybe I can do some longer listening this weekend and figure it out.


----------



## assassin10000

MelodyMood said:


> How is the Sound Quality? It is Warm with good Clarity and Bass. I have FAAEAL Iris which is good. I have TP16, FiiO EM3 etc. but looking for better and step up now.


K's Bell LB w/mic maybe?


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Good for you, but sorry you didn't get your buds... Maybe try again directly through VE once the money is back in there?
> 
> On another note, I found out that my ST10S Black and Gold (from Aliexpress) are arriving tomorrow, instead of the projected Aug 09 (sorry @Ronion not trying to rub it in).


Lol—that’s a low blow brother!  Love it though.  I’m happy for you.  I literally look forward to reading this thread everyday. I can’t wait to read what you hear with the ST10s!

I ended up ordering directly from VE, but decided to get the Zen Lite instead…. I’m addicted to these high def buds now.  

We should start an earbud delivery service which deliberately hides the package contents from our wives like Playboy Magazine did when I was a kid.  The guy down the street knew his delivery date by heart and would be waiting for the mailman all morning.


----------



## Ronion

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Oh. Is that what I was missing? Turns out the M2s likes two things:
> 
> Silver cables
> Balanced power
> ...


That’s how I felt when I put some power to them.  More so with the 150 Ohm version.  They are truly great buds.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Ronion said:


> I ended up ordering directly from VE, but decided to get the Zen Lite instead…. I’m addicted to these high def buds now.


Nice! Curious to see what you think. That or the LL would be the next logical step up for me.


Ronion said:


> We should start an earbud delivery service which deliberately hides the package contents from our wives like Playboy Magazine did when I was a kid.  The guy down the street knew his delivery date by heart and would be waiting for the mailman all morning.


Or do what I did: draw the parallels between her hobbies and this one. Mine loves makeup. My stuff usually costs less per order. Honestly, she's shocked at this point when I bring home a $10 set.


Ronion said:


> That’s how I felt when I put some power to them.  More so with the 150 Ohm version.  They are truly great buds.


Sounds like a ST-10 Gold driver pair will be coming down the pipe, then. I was not prepared for that cable + DAP combo. Definitely curious to see how to improve upon it.


----------



## Ronion

MelodyMood said:


> I did not mentioned the price here recently. I am not looking to spend too much and usually go with AUD $15-20 range  but for real good earbud, I can go up to $30-40 range also but it has to be worth for that money.


I’ve never heard them, but the SMABAT M0 might be the right choice Based on their reputation and you can always upgrade the drivers to the 40Ohm for very little money.  They are great drivers!  

my other suggestion would be the earbuds Anonymous Earbuds.  They are bass heavy, but fun and still more detailed than anything I’ve heard that’s cheaper (and that’s a good sized list at this point).  They also scale well with amplification.  

Fit is unique to everyone, but those buds are generally considered comfortable.


----------



## MelodyMood

assassin10000 said:


> K's Bell LB w/mic maybe?


Any link? I am trying to search on AliExpress though but did not find.


----------



## assassin10000

MelodyMood said:


> Any link? I am trying to search on AliExpress though but did not find.


https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html

If you follow nicehck store there is a discounted price.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Found the Snow Lotus. Looks like they were hiding in the least obvious spot possible: wrapped nicely inside of its bag. A bag that looks almost exactly like the X6 bag.




Now...listening notes. I'll stick with the Ryan Adams kick I've been on all day with _Easy Tiger_. Ten points to timbre, as previously discussed. Not often you get the wind noise of of the sound-hole every time he hits a percussive. Even the harmonica has a nice reed-y feel to it. It's about as headphone-like an experience as I think $10 can reasonably get you. Really like how well it scales.

Tonally, they sound pretty similar to the X6 (which I just happened to put in). If the M2s were a little shouty when driven hard, the X6 seems like it has a bit of chestiness. Nowhere near the same amount of sparkle on strummed strings as I was getting with the Snow Lotus, but I can see the merit of having that extra bass emphasis with other material.



Between the Snow Lotus and the X6? Going against the grain here. I'm Team FAAEAL (and I don't even care that it sounds like "fail" when I say it out loud).


----------



## MelodyMood

assassin10000 said:


> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html
> 
> If you follow nicehck store there is a discounted price.


It is Mobile link but I cannot find it on the store. There is 2021 model but that is $500+. However, I found this on other store: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002787930610.html

But that is also above AUD $70. Slightly out of my budget.


----------



## MelodyMood

Ronion said:


> I’ve never heard them, but the SMABAT M0 might be the right choice Based on their reputation and you can always upgrade the drivers to the 40Ohm for very little money.  They are great drivers!
> 
> my other suggestion would be the earbuds Anonymous Earbuds.  They are bass heavy, but fun and still more detailed than anything I’ve heard that’s cheaper (and that’s a good sized list at this point).  They also scale well with amplification.
> 
> Fit is unique to everyone, but those buds are generally considered comfortable.


This one? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002791302602.html

Is it that I need to assemble. It looks easy though. Rest all are looking similar. I guess $32 is not bad. I did not find any 400 Ohs model though. Any review of  SMABAT M0?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

MelodyMood said:


> This one? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002791302602.html
> 
> Is it that I need to assemble. It looks easy though. Rest all are looking similar. I guess $32 is not bad. I did not find any 400 Ohs model though. Any review of  SMABAT M0?


Careful with third parties on AE. Smabat has their own storefront and I'd recommend ordering from them, even if it is a little bit more:

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mtx5rSx


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 30, 2021)

Like proverbial Swiss clockwork, "novice arrogance" rears it's ugly head.



MelodyMood said:


> USB-C Type is not for Music. It ruins the Sound Quality completely. You will never get any decent quality from USB C Earbuds or if you use USB-C  to 3.5mm Adaptor. USB-C is for Data Transfer and  Charging. Not for Music.


Taking into account that there may be a language barrier at hand here (Hindi being the mother tongue) this is still a horribly 'over generalized' blanket statement that is false in so many different ways.

Firstly,

Most, if not all, DACs available today are USB (Type A/B/C; bused/non-bused); they most certainly are all *made for music*.
Some DACs are DAC/AMP Dongles aka Adapters (USB-C to 2.5TRRS/3.5SE); they are also *made for music* and believe it or not measure very well as they share similar, if not better, DAC chips used in smartphones (how do you think your music files go from digital 0s & 1s to analog sound via that 3.5mm port?)
With USB-C, audio data can be sent out the port either as an *analog* or a *digital* signal... if, USB-C Analog Audio, it will then be highly dependent on the source's design and pinout so do be aware that some USB-C ports are not "analog capable".
Digital data whether it be text, image, video, or audio are all 0s & 1s... these formats are all converted to an analog format that we are familiar and can interact with. There is *nothing special or unique about music vs any other data format* in almost all normal utilitarian cases.
Sorry, there is *nothing magical or different that happens inside your smartphone than any other DAC device* outside of implementation. That however does not discount the preference that many have for a minimalist mobile audiophile smartphone and rightly so!

Secondly, I hope you realize that your reply to *@miserybeforethemusic *comes across rather rude, curt & abrupt, and not friendly at all. A simple salutation, like "_hello!_", or even a kind remark, like "_cool pics!_", would have drastically changed the tone of your reply.

Thirdly, do you own the* NiceHCK Traceless (32Ω; USB-C)*? If so, I highly doubt you can differentiate between the USB-C terminated variant from say the 3.5SE straight plug with this level of driver (I am personally unable to)... this is a sub-$10 earbud made for on the go listening and not tuned for critical reference level listening at home. Sorry, but your current level of earbud experience and audio science knowledge is most wanting.




miserybeforethemusic said:


> They definitely have no sub-bass to speak of. Not much midbass, either.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm. Maybe this will help.


Thank you *@miserybeforethemusic *for your interesting posts and for sharing those awesome pics as we all truly enjoy hearing such user experience especially when it comes to such oddball variants like this! The NiceHCK Traceless are indeed a very nice little bud especially at such a low price! The USB-C termination in this case is super convenient for mobile users!
Ignore the troll and keep sharing it is *most appreciated* mate!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

WoodyLuvr said:


> Like proverbial Swiss clockwork, "novice arrogance" rears it's ugly head.
> 
> 
> Taking into account that there may be a language barrier at hand here (Hindi being the mother tongue) this is still a horribly 'over generalized' blanket statement that is false in so many different ways.
> ...


I'm all about the love. No offense taken from anybody and no love lost. This thread has a great vibe; love coming here to shrug off a rough day.

Like you, I can't complain about much when it comes to the Traceless at its price, especially since the microphone works and works well (it flat-out embarrasses half of my TWS fleet in terms of mic quality based on my wife's unabashedly honest feedback).

$10 for a perfectly workable microphone that has half-decent speakers attached to it? Not a bad deal at all.


----------



## Ronion

That’s the one.  Assembly is simple and self explanatory once you see them.  They sell a series of drivers and damping nets that can adjust detail retrieving, soundstage and bass level.


----------



## MelodyMood

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Careful with third parties on AE. Smabat has their own storefront and I'd recommend ordering from them, even if it is a little bit more:
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mtx5rSx


The price difference is big. $32 Vs $52. But let me check with them for any discount. However, I was reading the review and reviewers say that it do not have any Bass at all and bright sound? is that so?


----------



## MelodyMood (Jul 30, 2021)

Ronion said:


> That’s the one.  Assembly is simple and self explanatory once you see them.  They sell a series of drivers and damping nets that can adjust detail retrieving, soundstage and bass level.


Ok. @miserybeforethemusic suggested to buy from original store but the price is high. I asked them for discount and also cable with Mic. However, I read the reviews and they say that it has no bass? is that so? How is JCally EP05 in compare to that or anything else?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

MelodyMood said:


> Ok. @miserybeforethemusic suggested to buy from original store but the price is high. I asked them for discount and also cable with Mic. However, I read the reviews and they say that it has no bass? is that so?


Probably depends more on the driver than anything, but I'm not complaining about bass with the M2s Pro and they're fairly similar in build. If you're having issues with low bass on these, chances are it's either an issue with fit or the source.

And I understand $20 might be a big spread to you, but time is valuable and the official store ships quick. When it comes to AE, that is something I'd gladly pay for, but you should also be able to order from Smabat directly:

https://www.smabat.com/products/smabat-m0-modular-earphone-diy-standard-edition


----------



## MelodyMood

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Probably depends more on the driver than anything, but I'm not complaining about bass with the M2s Pro and they're fairly similar in build. If you're having issues with low bass on these, chances are it's either an issue with fit or the source.
> 
> And I understand $20 might be a big spread to you, but time is valuable and the official store ships quick. When it comes to AE, that is something I'd gladly pay for, but you should also be able to order from Smabat directly:
> 
> https://www.smabat.com/products/smabat-m0-modular-earphone-diy-standard-edition


Ok. But does it has decent bass or it is very Bright? I like Warm sound and the Yamaha Headphone I mentioned has good Bass that you can feel with lots of clarity too. That kind of sound I am looking for.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Probably depends more on the driver than anything, but I'm not complaining about bass with the M2s Pro and they're fairly similar in build. If you're having issues with low bass on these, chances are it's either an issue with fit or the source.


Concur! Fit is everything in regards to earbuds (most especially in the bass department) coupled with _*realistic bass expectations*_. Unfortunately, due the diminutive nature of the drivers used in flatheads/earbuds, they lack bass "slam & impact" but boy do they make up for it in bass "clarity & resolution"! A level of bass detail that rivals 2/2.1-channel systems!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

MelodyMood said:


> Ok. But does it has decent bass or it is very Bright? I like Warm sound and the Yamaha Headphone I mentioned has good Bass that you can feel with lots of clarity too. That kind of sound I am looking for.


I think we might be confusing things here and, as a result, you might have expectations earbuds can't fulfill. Sub-bass can be felt; bass rests at a higher register and, despite what might make sense, it's really the midbass that gives you that punch-in-the-chest feeling (aka slam).

All of that's a long way of saying I think you're looking for something earbuds don't generally provide. Bass can be tremendously clear with the Smabat, but it's not going to rattle your skull. You're going to be able to follow subtle basslines that are usually obscured by a huge midbass push or distant mids.

I think the X6 are technically the bassiest of the bunch here, but quality and timbre leave a lot to be desired when you go back to back with the M2s Pro. X6 would make for awesome background/mellow listening. The Smabat would be better for active listening with an emphasis on detail from the bass (not sub-bass) on up.


----------



## emusic13

My first vido, albeit modified.


----------



## n00b

miserybeforethemusic said:


> You know...I was hoping to play them for a few minutes to confirm it, but they seem to be AWOL at the moment. I wouldn't call them warm, but there is a mild treble rolloff and bass (which is very foam and fit-dependent) is extremely articulate, but not that fast or loud. It's a better choice for chillout listening than it is for active stuff. For that, the M2s fit the bill a bit better.
> 
> Goes to show how often I listen to my stuff loud, I guess. That was at 90/150 on the SR25. Backing it down to 80 got rid of the shout, but at the expense of some dynamics.
> 
> Had to put the X6 back on the break-in bed. Still not seeing what's so special about them, but maybe I can do some longer listening this weekend and figure it out.


you’re listening to m2s pro on sr25 balanced at 90/150? with the stock 40ohm driver? i dont go above 45 omg…


----------



## WoodyLuvr

emusic13 said:


> My first vido, albeit modified.


I REALLY like your Tera-Player there!


----------



## MelodyMood

WoodyLuvr said:


> Like proverbial Swiss clockwork, "novice arrogance" rears it's ugly head.
> 
> 
> Taking into account that there may be a language barrier at hand here (Hindi being the mother tongue) this is still a horribly 'over generalized' blanket statement that is false in so many different ways.
> ...



Not sure what arrogance you saw but I replied simply. In my own view, I am very simple and humble person. But I agree that little appreciation will make things better.

Being an IT Professional, I very well understand that it is all 0s and 1s only. But there is a big difference in the sound quality between USB C and 3.5mm. Phone device manufacturing companies are more worried about selling their Wireless Earbuds than providing good quality to the users. There is not a single valid reason they have provided for removing the 3.5mm Port and I am yet to see any phone which is actually 3-4 mm in thickness and there are at least 25-30 models with 3.5mm jack which has same level of Water Resistance what we get in Samsung S20 or S21 or OnePlus 8 /9 or so or any other device.

I do not have *NiceHCK Traceless (32Ω; USB-C) *but I know that USB C is not for sound and as mentioned about sound quality by *@miserybeforethemusic*, it is not hard to understand why it is not nice. When you connect Adapter for music, you create bridge and do not get the direct connection and obviously will not get the same level of sound quality. Especially when part of the connection is USB C.  

Sorry but in my view, if someone thinks that USB C is good for Music and does not actually affect the quality, he/she either has no idea why USB C even exist or just not worried about the sound quality. I have many friends and people I know who are even fine to listen 16-bit or 24-bit mp3 file as long as there is some sound coming and they can recognise the song at least. I am still waiting for a good and valid reason from these Phone companies for removing the 3.5mm Port.


----------



## MelodyMood

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I think we might be confusing things here and, as a result, you might have expectations earbuds can't fulfill. Sub-bass can be felt; bass rests at a higher register and, despite what might make sense, it's really the midbass that gives you that punch-in-the-chest feeling (aka slam).
> 
> All of that's a long way of saying I think you're looking for something earbuds don't generally provide. Bass can be tremendously clear with the Smabat, but it's not going to rattle your skull. You're going to be able to follow subtle basslines that are usually obscured by a huge midbass push or distant mids.
> 
> I think the X6 are technically the bassiest of the bunch here, but quality and timbre leave a lot to be desired when you go back to back with the M2s Pro. X6 would make for awesome background/mellow listening. The Smabat would be better for active listening with an emphasis on detail from the bass (not sub-bass) on up.


Thanks. Yes Sub-Bass can be felt. I agree. And I was looking for little Sub-Bass as well. Is it Yincrow X6 you mentioned?  I had them but Mic is no longer working and that is why I was looking for better option. Also, it does not have straight plug which is kind of negative for me. 

In SBAMAT M2 Pro, do you think it has decent amount of Bass and little Sub Bass too? So I can select that instead of  M0? Not sure abt the price though. I know earphone may not give that kind of sound quality but anything near is good for me. Thanks for your replies


----------



## Ronion (Jul 30, 2021)

MelodyMood said:


> Ok. But does it has decent bass or it is very Bright? I like Warm sound and the Yamaha Headphone I mentioned has good Bass that you can feel with lots of clarity too. That kind of sound I am looking for.


I’d get the Earbuds Anonymous Buds then.  Earbuds won’t get you bass impact though like those larger drivers will.  I’d pretty much bet that they’ll have better clarity than those Yamaha do, but I cannot say for sure having never heard the Yammy.  They certainly compete with far more expensive over ear cans though that are renowned for their clarity.  if you do a search, you can find the code to get them for $25USD from Penon(also good shipping and customer service).

oh, but no mic….


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

n00b said:


> you’re listening to m2s pro on sr25 balanced at 90/150? with the stock 40ohm driver? i dont go above 45 omg…


I was outdoors hahaha. That's what a decade of working in an engine room will do to you, I suppose. Silver cable does diffuse the sound a bit, so it's not as in-your-face with the stock cable.

Once I'm indoors it's like 50 max.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jul 30, 2021)

MelodyMood said:


> Thanks. Yes Sub-Bass can be felt. I agree. And I was looking for little Sub-Bass as well. Is it Yincrow X6 you mentioned?  I had them but Mic is no longer working and that is why I was looking for better option. Also, it does not have straight plug which is kind of negative for me.


X6 doesn't have subbass imo. The M2s has come the closest of the bunch, but it needs power (and volume) to get there.

Regarding the plug, any MMCX cable would work for the Smabat. I'm sure there's plenty of well-built MMCX cables with an in-built mic.

As to the Traceless, I'm going to debate on it, but I can "liberate" the USB-C end so we can find out for sure what's underneath that housing. I'm inclined to believe it's literally a pinout, so the D/A conversion is happening upstream. There's not enough weight in that plug for me to think there's any IC in it.


MelodyMood said:


> In SBAMAT M2 Pro, do you think it has decent amount of Bass and little Sub Bass too? So I can select that instead of  M0? Not sure abt the price though. I know earphone may not give that kind of sound quality but anything near is good for me. Thanks for your replies


Oops missed one. I don't have enough of a basis for comparison, at least not like some here. Of the 4 pairs I have here, the FAAEAL and Smabat seem to lean towards the tonality you're describing.


----------



## Ronion (Jul 30, 2021)

I would be shocked if they have no bass.


MelodyMood said:


> Ok. @miserybeforethemusic suggested to buy from original store but the price is high. I asked them for discount and also cable with Mic. However, I read the reviews and they say that it has no bass? is that so? How is JCally EP05 in compare to that or anything else?


I haven’t heard the JCally either…. I doubt they’d (SMABAT)have little bass.  The M2s pro have the deepest bass I’ve heard in a bud.  I do have the 150 Ohm version and they’re operating “without a net” so to speak.


----------



## Ronion

n00b said:


> you’re listening to m2s pro on sr25 balanced at 90/150? with the stock 40ohm driver? i dont go above 45 omg…


One thing you should know about us musicians: like all referees are blind, we’re all deaf.  Ha ha


----------



## Ronion

miserybeforethemusic said:


> X6 doesn't have subbass imo. The M2s has come the closest of the bunch, but it needs power (and volume) to get there.


My experience exactly mirrors this, but I just mentioned that none of us musicians can hear so…


----------



## MelodyMood

Ronion said:


> I’d get the Earbuds Anonymous Buds then.  Earbuds won’t get you bass impact though like those larger drivers will.  I’d pretty much bet that they’ll have better clarity than those Yamaha do, but I cannot say for sure having never heard the Yammy.  They certainly compete with far more expensive over ear cans though that are renowned for their clarity.  if you do a search, you can find the code to get them for $25USD from Penon(also good shipping and customer service).


Ok. Thanks. What is Anonymous Earbud? Any link? Does it has good Warm sod with bit of  bass and sub bass? Yamaha Headphone are good. Very good indeed that I wish there is any earbud near that sound quality. Unfortunately, I cannot  use that and need earbuds for regular listening.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Ronion said:


> My experience exactly mirrors this, but I just mentioned that none of us musicians can hear so…



Not sure it's the "musician" part


----------



## MelodyMood

Ronion said:


> I would be shocked if they have no bass.
> 
> I haven’t heard the JCally either…. I doubt they’d (SMABAT)have little bass.  The M2s pro have the deepest bass I’ve heard in a bud.  I do have the 150 Ohm version and they’re operating “without a net” so to speak.


In reviews the guy mentioned that it is light on bass or non existent actually. https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-m0.25277/reviews

If you think M2 Pro is better option with lots of details and warm sound + Good Badd ans Sub-bass then I can consider that. But I guess that is even more expensive? 

I need to listen to Yincrow again but I am surely looking for much better sound quality than Yincrow or TP16 or Monk+ etc.


----------



## Ronion

MelodyMood said:


> Ok. Thanks. What is Anonymous Earbud? Any link? Does it has good Warm sod with bit of  bass and sub bass? Yamaha Headphone are good. Very good indeed that I wish there is any earbud near that sound quality. Unfortunately, I cannot  use that and need earbuds for regular listening.


It’s a Facebook group: Earbuds Anonymous.  You can search this site for the code and look at Penon Audio site for the buds.


----------



## nymz

M2S pro is a beast. Grab it if it's in your budget range. Later down the road, you can upgrade to golden driver (150ohm) and cable if you want. I'll just leave this here:






My favourite all rounder on the collection for sure!


----------



## Ronion

MelodyMood said:


> In reviews the guy mentioned that it is light on bass or non existent actually. https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-m0.25277/reviews
> 
> If you think M2 Pro is better option with lots of details and warm sound + Good Badd ans Sub-bass then I can consider that. But I guess that is even more expensive?
> 
> I need to listen to Yincrow again but I am surely looking for much better sound quality than Yincrow or TP16 or Monk+ etc.


That’s not what the linked review says.  I’m fairly certain that the M2s pro is better to some degree.  Hard to say how much.  That said, I wouldn’t describe the M2s Pro as warm.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 30, 2021)

MelodyMood said:


> *Not sure what arrogance you saw* but I replied simply. In my own view, I am very simple and humble person.
> 
> _The answer lays right here in your ending statement:_
> 
> Sorry but in my view, if someone thinks that USB C is good for Music and does not actually affect the quality, he/she either has no idea why USB C even exist or just not worried about the sound quality. I have many friends and people I know who are even fine to listen 16-bit or 24-bit mp3 file as long as there is some sound coming and they can recognise the song at least.


Your ending statement above reeks of novice arrogance and ignorance... along with your hypocritical "_USB-C is non-audiophile_" mantra while you incessantly inquire on sub $10 earbuds that come with mics... the irony!

Humble?! Humble individuals rarely, if ever, lay-down blanket statements such as yours. Simple?! Simple person's posts would not continually prove to be so awkward to deal with (many of your early posts were very complicated to say the least). I fear that you are far more opinionated, stubborn, and lazy than you realize as all your posts in this here thread are testament to:

a continuing inability to "_*help us, help you*_" which is turning into a rather annoying and stubborn streak on your part... many of us have tried countless times to steer you in the right direction but to no avail;
failure to follow simple guidelines and basic forum etiquette when posting and making recommendation requests;
asking basic questions that have been answered numerous times in the thread (as you apparently refuse to "read through" and/or "search" the thread to find the answers first as you rather someone else do the work for you... or is it that you don't like the answers you found?)



MelodyMood said:


> Being an IT Professional, I very well understand that it is all 0s and 1s only.


Profess to be an *IT Professional* but were unable to use basic forum tools when posting? _Reminder_: we had to ask you repeatedly (ended up having to literally show you how to use) the multi-quote function tool which you still refuse to use because you are lazy, thoughtless, and inconsiderate.



MelodyMood said:


> Being an IT Professional, I very well understand that it is all 0s and 1s only. But there is a big difference in the sound quality between USB C and 3.5mm... ...When you connect Adapter for music, you *create bridge* and do not get the *direct connection* and obviously will not get the same level of sound quality. Especially when part of the connection is USB C.


In this case, IT Professional does not equate well to Audio Science Engineer.

Whether it be a 3.5mm jack or a USB-C port offering analog audio,  a connection is a connection, just like the rest of an electronic circuit which is a combination of connections, bridges, point-to-points, etc. Nothing magical happens in a 3.5mm jack that does not happen in an analog audio output USB-C port. This is not super-sophisticated electronics happening here either. What magical "stable" connection circuitry do you think is happening in your smartphone that doesn't happen in a USB-C port?

USB-C is heavily used in consumer DACs and electronics and for good reason; it works flawlessly (if implemented correctly and designed by a skilled engineer).

This is not an _Objective_ vs. _Subjective_ debate either. This is acceptance of simple basic electronics and physics no matter which camp you find yourself in (personally, my tent is smack dab in the middle between both camps).



MelodyMood said:


> ...but I know that USB C is not for sound...
> 
> Sorry but in my view, if someone thinks that USB C is good for Music and does not actually affect the quality, he/she either has no idea why USB C even exist or just not worried about the sound quality. I have many friends and people I know who are even fine to listen 16-bit or 24-bit mp3 file as long as there is some sound coming and they can recognise the song at least. I am still waiting for a good and valid reason from these Phone companies for removing the 3.5mm Port.


Again, a blanket statement with no founding evidence whatsoever which states that "*USB-C is not for sound"*... what a gross over generalization, total nonsense really.

Why is it then that USB-C has been designed to output audio data as *either analog or digital signal*? Why do countless designers and manufacturers use USB Type A/B/C for feeding data into DAC components? *USB was very much designed for music audio* whether it be for the transfer of music audio files or analog music playback. The music industry has had one of the greatest impact on PC devices and all the deriving technologies. To think that USB-C would not be designed with audio playback in mind is simply ludicrous!



MelodyMood said:


> I do not have *NiceHCK Traceless (32Ω; USB-C) *but I know that USB C is not for sound and as mentioned about sound quality by *@miserybeforethemusic*, it is not hard to understand why it is not nice.


Huh?!


miserybeforethemusic said:


> They definitely have no sub-bass to speak of. Not much midbass, either.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm. Maybe this will help.


*@miserybeforethemusic *post was not a reflection of the USB-C cable termination but rather the known limitations of the sub US$1 drivers that are used in the Traceless.

I have compared both the 3.5SE and USB-C terminated NiceHCK Traceless and they sound exactly the same. For a sub US$10 earbud they are fantastic but do lack in many areas again due to the drivers used and not because of the terminations employed.


----------



## mtl171

Hi everyone! I'm happy to back on my favorite HeadFi thread after too much time away dabbling in BaskingShark's least favorite audio listening equipment (the three letters that must not be named). Anyhow, I'm still on the hunt for some bright neutral buds with do mid/vocals well. I think I'm finally at the point where I'm willing to cough up the money (<$300 preferably) for a pair of high end buds so I can stop wondering "what if..."  

My short list includes the: 
NiceHCK EBX21: hear they're definitely brighter mids with weaker bass. fine by me 
K's bluebell: bit of a budget stretch but did read that female vocals are extra nice on these which intrigue me 
Fiio EM5: beryllium DD! 

The only pricier earbud I own is the Smabat ST10S which I find to sound quite nice after messing with foams, but it definitely does have a treble spike and is a bit too warm for me. I'd really appreciate any suggestions or feedback that anyway else has. Thanks


----------



## 40760

mtl171 said:


> Hi everyone! I'm happy to back on my favorite HeadFi thread after too much time away dabbling in BaskingShark's least favorite audio listening equipment (the three letters that must not be named). Anyhow, I'm still on the hunt for some bright neutral buds with do mid/vocals well. I think I'm finally at the point where I'm willing to cough up the money (<$300 preferably) for a pair of high end buds so I can stop wondering "what if..."
> 
> My short list includes the:
> NiceHCK EBX21: hear they're definitely brighter mids with weaker bass. fine by me
> ...



Did you say mids and vocals? TONEKING Dendroaspis Viridis.


----------



## nymz

Also take a look at Chaconne, maybe


----------



## 40760

nymz said:


> Also take a look at Chaconne, maybe



With a better budget, this is a good set too...


----------



## wskl

I recently received my Yincrow RW-2000, I used them for at least a week before posting my opinion.

As a listener of classical music, I have to say I'm a bit underwhelmed, the mid-bass bloat is more than I was expecting which was quite noticeable when listening to symphonies.  The mids in general are not bad, just not my personal preference, they have a warmish tone and slightly thicker note weight than I would like so it kinda leans into the 'warm and smooth' territory, it can cause some muddiness and it affects the separation too.  I don't mind this type of sound profile for casual listening but for critical listening I need something more.

For cable believers I have a solution, I swap out the stock cable for a silver cable, I use the NiceHCK LitzPS.  Again, I listen for another week.  Holy mackerel, what a transformation, it sounds so much more refined now, the tuning is now worthy of TOTL status.  The SQ is much tighter overall, the mid-bass bloat has gone, mids now less thick, high clarity and clear details.  So far, everything sounds great but I was hoping for an upgrade to my Smabat ST-10 paired with NiceHCK C16-3 copper cable, it's just a sidegrade for me though.  Oh well, I may have to up the ante and try a Blur earbud next.


----------



## nymz

wskl said:


> Oh well, I may have to up the ante and try a Blur earbud next.



Know the feeling too well... In fact, I just placed an order lol


----------



## ian91 (Jul 30, 2021)

mtl171 said:


> Hi everyone! I'm happy to back on my favorite HeadFi thread after too much time away dabbling in BaskingShark's least favorite audio listening equipment (the three letters that must not be named). Anyhow, I'm still on the hunt for some bright neutral buds with do mid/vocals well. I think I'm finally at the point where I'm willing to cough up the money (<$300 preferably) for a pair of high end buds so I can stop wondering "what if..."
> 
> My short list includes the:
> NiceHCK EBX21: hear they're definitely brighter mids with weaker bass. fine by me
> ...



My recommendation would be the Blur OFC MX64 aPs Special Tuning Edition (STE). Best paired with a warm source. I think Master Wong has a 2.5mm, black shell in stock currently.

It's a neutral/bright tuning with plenty of detail. It handles vocals well, just like most Blur buds I've tried.

Check out my impressions here


----------



## baskingshark (Jul 30, 2021)

mtl171 said:


> Hi everyone! I'm happy to back on my favorite HeadFi thread after too much time away dabbling in BaskingShark's least favorite audio listening equipment (the three letters that must not be named). Anyhow, I'm still on the hunt for some bright neutral buds with do mid/vocals well. I think I'm finally at the point where I'm willing to cough up the money (<$300 preferably) for a pair of high end buds so I can stop wondering "what if..."
> 
> My short list includes the:
> NiceHCK EBX21: hear they're definitely brighter mids with weaker bass. fine by me
> ...



For bright neutral tuning, NiceHCK EBX21 is an option.

But I would recommend to consider the Smabat M0 as a cheaper option, that isn't too far away in quality. M0 with stock drivers is neutralish bright but has tuning options (via dampers and aftermarket drivers in a modular system), so you can potentially get different sound signatures if you wish. Subbass is weak on this set though in the stock drivers, as per most mainstream earbuds.

The older brother the SMABAT M2S Pro, also features a modular driver/damper system, so it can be tuned too. The M2S Pro in stock form is neutral with a subbass boost. It has better subbass extension and is thicker in note weight and also has better technicalities than the younger brother M0, and the M2S Pro isn't too far away in sound from more expensive sets like Yincrow RW2000, so very excellent price to performance ratio.


----------



## n00b

mtl171 said:


> Hi everyone! I'm happy to back on my favorite HeadFi thread after too much time away dabbling in BaskingShark's least favorite audio listening equipment (the three letters that must not be named). Anyhow, I'm still on the hunt for some bright neutral buds with do mid/vocals well. I think I'm finally at the point where I'm willing to cough up the money (<$300 preferably) for a pair of high end buds so I can stop wondering "what if..."
> 
> My short list includes the:
> NiceHCK EBX21: hear they're definitely brighter mids with weaker bass. fine by me
> ...


EBX21 with full foam + donut foam and a very secure fit (over the ear) is a bright neutral with tight controlled midbass but little to no subbass extension. tuning is good for female vocals and most genres that arent too bass intensive. i am not using mine any more, so lmk if you want to buy mine to try well under retail haha

never tried k's

fiio em5 -- extremely disappointing tuning to me, i could not get past it. had to reluctantly return them. they sound good for like, drums, maybe male vocals, but they sound so muffled and unnatural to me. it will not sound like bright neutral with good vocals if that's what you're looking for.


----------



## RikudouGoku

mtl171 said:


> Hi everyone! I'm happy to back on my favorite HeadFi thread after too much time away dabbling in BaskingShark's least favorite audio listening equipment (the three letters that must not be named). Anyhow, I'm still on the hunt for some bright neutral buds with do mid/vocals well. I think I'm finally at the point where I'm willing to cough up the money (<$300 preferably) for a pair of high end buds so I can stop wondering "what if..."
> 
> My short list includes the:
> NiceHCK EBX21: hear they're definitely brighter mids with weaker bass. fine by me
> ...


IMO, if you are considering the blue bell or the EM5 (300 usd range), you should just get the Moondrop Chaconne.


----------



## n00b

can vouch for chaconne -- IMO worth it at $300 because nothing I've listened to comes close to its presentation of female vocals. potential drawbacks are lack of replaceable cable, heft/comfort for extended listening, and can only be worn wires down (not over the ear) so not the best for walking around. EBX21 addresses all of those except do not sound 'as good' or as special as chaconne, but are still very competitive and TOTL worthy. I would say when judging by the price tag, EBX21 dont offer as much value, unless you love the included cable and get good use out of it. The cable probably accounts for half of the cost if bought new and I ended up wanting to replace the cable for mine for a different balanced termination and better ergonomics for over ear wearing.


----------



## LikeHolborn

golov17 said:


> For me : BOE>rm303>em3s>rm305=Sur
> 
> Also BOE better than TP16+Monk's


Hey man, i trust your judgement, what is the boe that is better than remax-303? Also can you please recommend me some buds that are as comfortable (small) as remax 303, exact same sound signature if slightly less treble, i found it to be engaging with a present or forward sound, sweet. I bought many expensive headphones but they all failed me, i think if i can get the same as 303 but better I'll be good. Many thanks


----------



## RikudouGoku

n00b said:


> can vouch for chaconne -- IMO worth it at $300 because nothing I've listened to comes close to its presentation of female vocals. potential drawbacks are lack of replaceable cable, heft/comfort for extended listening, and can only be worn wires down (not over the ear) so not the best for walking around. EBX21 addresses all of those except do not sound 'as good' or as special as chaconne, but are still very competitive and TOTL worthy. I would say when judging by the price tag, EBX21 dont offer as much value, unless you love the included cable and get good use out of it. The cable probably accounts for half of the cost if bought new and I ended up wanting to replace the cable for mine for a different balanced termination and better ergonomics for over ear wearing.


Wished they sold the EBX21 with a different cable that is not overpriced...that cable isnt a good cable anyway...


----------



## assassin10000

WoodyLuvr said:


> Your ending statement above reeks of novice arrogance and ignorance... along with your hypocritical "_USB-C is non-audiophile_" mantra while you incessantly inquire on sub $10 earbuds that come with mics... the irony!
> 
> Humble?! Humble individuals rarely, if ever, lay-down blanket statements such as yours. Simple?! Simple person's posts would not continually prove to be so awkward to deal with (many of your early posts were very complicated to say the least). I fear that you are far more opinionated, stubborn, and lazy than you realize as all your posts in this here thread are testament to:
> 
> ...





palestofwhite said:


> If you have observed this user over the years... it is wiser to just use the block function.


↑ this.

Just did myself last night after their latest response regarding USB-C, showing a clear lack of understanding. Many posts asking for help without trying to find the answers which are present already, just plain ignoring help offered if it doesn't fit what they believe/want to hear and what seems to be an unwillingness to step into a higher budget to get the sound they want. 

That and with what they've spent on cheaper (lacking) buds, may have gotten them to a budget that could have got them the sound they want (via MMCX bud and separate mic cable).

Should have done it a year or more ago when they were still espousing the old apple earbuds as the best thing since sliced bread. Frustrating trying to help someone that can't seem to help themselves. Oh well, live and learn.


----------



## mtl171

palestofwhite said:


> Did you say mids and vocals? TONEKING Dendroaspis Viridis.


I'm not sure sure how I forgot about this one despite it having sat in my AE cart for months. Its a bit of a shame that there aren't more reviews of it.


ian91 said:


> My recommendation would be the Blur OFC MX64 aPs Special Tuning Edition (STE). Best paired with a warm source. I think Master Wong has a 2.5mm, black shell in stock currently.
> 
> It's a neutral/bright tuning with plenty of detail. It handles vocals well, just like most Blur buds I've tried.
> 
> Check out my impressions here


I was just talking to him yesterday! Reading your impressions do have me tempted again, though I do think custom is a bit further down the line for me. That entire thread is amazing considering how many options there are.


baskingshark said:


> For bright neutral tuning, NiceHCK EBX21 is an option.
> 
> But I would recommend to consider the Smabat M0 as a cheaper option, that isn't too far away in quality. M0 with stock drivers is neutralish bright but has tuning options (via dampers and aftermarket drivers in a modular system), so you can potentially get different sound signatures if you wish. Subbass is weak on this set though in the stock drivers, as per most mainstream earbuds.
> 
> The older brother the SMABAT M2S Pro, also features a modular driver/damper system, so it can be tuned too. The M2S Pro in stock form is neutral with a subbass boost. It has better subbass extension and is thicker in note weight and also has better technicalities than the younger brother M0, and the M2S Pro isn't too far away in sound from more expensive sets like Yincrow RW2000, so very excellent price to performance ratio.


So many suggestions for the EBX21! I do like the looks of it and it does seem to match what I'm looking for. Not too into tuning... yet  


RikudouGoku said:


> IMO, if you are considering the blue bell or the EM5 (300 usd range), you should just get the Moondrop Chaconne.


Again not sure how this one slipped under my radar too. On second thought, I'm still quite hesitant to spend more then $100 for a pair of non replaceable cable buds. The whole accidentally yanking the cable out without option for easy replacement scares me. It was definitely one of the main things which prevented me from buying a set of Blurs :< Ive never broken a cable but its definitely a irrational fear.


----------



## 40760

assassin10000 said:


> ↑ this.
> 
> Just did myself last night after their latest response regarding USB-C, showing a clear lack of understanding. Many posts asking for help without trying to find the answers which are present already, just plain ignoring help offered if it doesn't fit what they believe/want to hear and what seems to be an unwillingness to step into a higher budget to get the sound they want.
> 
> ...



Precisely. Anyway this is not the only user. There is another one that I cannot recall his/her handle. Every once in a while they will pop by and start their nonsense all over again. 

If you hang around long enough and keep a look out, you will know what I mean.


----------



## assassin10000

palestofwhite said:


> Precisely. Anyway this is not the only user. There is another one that I cannot recall his/her handle. Every once in a while they will pop by and start their nonsense all over again.
> 
> If you hang around long enough and keep a look out, you will know what I mean.


I remember thinking they were the same user, just started a new username as people stopped responding to the old one? Because the thought process, description and posts were almost identical.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

palestofwhite said:


> Precisely. Anyway this is not the only user. There is another one that I cannot recall his/her handle. Every once in a while they will pop by and start their nonsense all over again.
> 
> If you hang around long enough and keep a look out, you will know what I mean.


Kindness is an amazing tool against them when used effectively. Have to give credit to my High School chemistry teacher who taught us the fine art of bald-faced mockery hidden beneath some Southern charm.

I still try to provide advice; just for the other folks who might lurk and learn a thing or two. Can't control the keyboard warriors. Their tools are limited.


----------



## n00b

yo this is getting really off topic. just block whoever annoys you without engaging with them. let me bring this back. m2s pro while i catch up with new music today


----------



## nymz

n00b said:


> yo this is getting really off topic. just block whoever annoys you without engaging with them. let me bring this back. m2s pro while i catch up with new music today



   

M2S Pro gang rise uuuuup.


----------



## furyossa (Jul 30, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> Precisely. Anyway this is not the only user. There is another one that I cannot recall his/her handle. Every once in a while they will pop by and start their nonsense all over again.
> 
> If you hang around long enough and keep a look out, you will know what I mean.


It is very easy to recognize someone like that, who has a number of different questions and few ridiculous statements in one post. Also posts/likes ratio > 100/1


assassin10000 said:


> I remember thinking they were the same user, just started a new username as people stopped responding to the old one? Because the thought process, description and posts were almost identical.


Yup. “Multiple personality” user or they are Siamese twins


----------



## furyossa

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Kindness is an amazing tool against them when used effectively. Have to give credit to my High School chemistry teacher who taught us the fine art of bald-faced mockery hidden beneath some Southern charm.
> 
> I still try to provide advice; just for the other folks who might lurk and learn a thing or two. Can't control the keyboard warriors. Their tools are limited.


I can bet it says "Made in troll land" on the back of the keyboard


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Guess I can spare myself having to break open the USB-C end on the Traceless to see if it's an analog pinout or digital signal. This prompt came up when I plugged them into the Pixel 3a.

And it definitely doesn't transmit audio. Good news is it works on the 8T, but I suppose interested folks might need to be aware of potential compatibility issues.


----------



## furyossa

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Guess I can spare myself having to break open the USB-C end on the Traceless to see if it's an analog pinout or digital signal. This prompt came up when I plugged them into the Pixel 3a.
> 
> And it definitely doesn't transmit audio. Good news is it works on the 8T, but I suppose interested folks might need to be aware of potential compatibility issues.


Some smartphones have protection, i.e. they are "allergic" to dongle cables from other manufacturers


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

furyossa said:


> Some smartphones have protection, i.e. they are "allergic" to dongle cables from other manufacturers


That Pixel 3a is a hypochondriac, for sure 🤣 I'm just glad I don't have to perform cable surgery this weekend.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 30, 2021)

*@miserybeforethemusic*  Damn, that is too bad but not surprising as that Pixel was circa 2018/2019 correct? Mostly newer smartphones, since mid-2020, are implementing the analog audio capable UCB-C port which I believe, if I am not mistaken, is currently via only one chipset supplied by TI... the *Texas Instruments TIDA-00565*, which came out in 2015/2016 but really didn't see high-usage until 2019/20. I played around with the *evaluation demo board *back in 2016/7 and it was pretty amazing tech. Very well implemented as it provides full USB power delivery and data transfer without issue while offering excellent analog audio with very low total harmonics (<-85 dB (0.005%) at 1 Vpp!!!). One of the best features, not available in standard analog audio jacks (e.g. 3.5mm), is an unique microcontroller protection circuit which protects from negative voltage swings sometimes exhibited by analog audio.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

WoodyLuvr said:


> *@miserybeforethemusic*  Damn, that is too bad but not surprising as that Pixel was circa 2018/2019 correct? Mostly newer smartphones, since mid-2020, are implementing the analog audio capable UCB-C port which I believe, if I am not mistaken, is currently via only one chipset supplied by TI... the *Texas Instruments TIDA-00565*, which came out in 2015/2016 but really didn't see high-usage until 2019/20. I played around with the *evaluation demo board *back in 2016/7 and it was pretty amazing tech. Very well implemented as it provides full USB power delivery and data transfer without issue while offering excellent analog audio with very low total harmonics (<-85 dB (0.005%) at 1 Vpp!!!). One of the best features, not available in standard analog audio jacks (e.g. 3.5mm), is an unique microcontroller protection circuit which protects from negative voltage swings sometimes exhibited by analog audio.


Appreciate the extra information. Figured at some point they'd standardize the pinout as well, but good to hear they're looking at ways to improve voltage regulation as well.


----------



## samandhi

So, I decided to take @miserybeforethemusic's example and cut off the ear hook plastic on my FdBro 4.4mm balanced cable to use on the M2S Pro. I think it looks fantastic with the buds (almost like it belongs). They also do indeed sound better, but now because they are so light, and the cable is heavier than the stock cable, the buds like to move around in my ears. I might try the ear hooks I bought, or maybe I'll put on the silicone rings over the foam. They don't actually fall out even while moving, they just move around. 

I also tried wearing them over-ear before taking off the ear hook material, but it was definitely a no-go. 

So, I am enjoying some old school Clapton after a very long week at work (DONE for the weekend... whew).


----------



## DBaldock9

WoodyLuvr said:


> *@miserybeforethemusic*  Damn, that is too bad but not surprising as that Pixel was circa 2018/2019 correct? Mostly newer smartphones, since mid-2020, are implementing the analog audio capable UCB-C port which I believe, if I am not mistaken, is currently via only one chipset supplied by TI... the *Texas Instruments TIDA-00565*, which came out in 2015/2016 but really didn't see high-usage until 2019/20. I played around with the *evaluation demo board *back in 2016/7 and it was pretty amazing tech. Very well implemented as it provides full USB power delivery and data transfer without issue while offering excellent analog audio with very low total harmonics (<-85 dB (0.005%) at 1 Vpp!!!). One of the best features, not available in standard analog audio jacks (e.g. 3.5mm), is an unique microcontroller protection circuit which protects from negative voltage swings sometimes exhibited by analog audio.



Which USB-C pins (for each insertion direction) are the phones & dongles using for the analog audio signals?
.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jul 30, 2021)

DBaldock9 said:


> Which USB-C pins (for each insertion direction) are the phones & dongles using for the analog audio signals?
> .


Here's what I could find:



Seems like pins A6/A7/B6/B7, then?


----------



## DBaldock9

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Here's what I could find:
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like pins A6/A7/B6/B7, then?



And, it looks like they're using the A8 & B8 (SBU1 & SBU2) pins, to somehow provide the Audio L & R (GND) and Microphone signals.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

DBaldock9 said:


> And, it looks like they're using the A8 & B8 (SBU1 & SBU2) pins, to somehow provide the Audio L & R (GND) and Microphone signals.


Yep. Looks like SBU1/SBU2 for the ground/mic detect logic. Pretty nifty, Texas Instruments.



And, with all this talk about USB-C analog audio, I suppose that's as good a time as any for some Traceless time for the daily science updates. Hope all you Aussies are hanging in there. Looks pretty rough for the time being.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

The Traceless have finally carved their niche: fatigue-free podcasting.

I usually can't stand how boomy these YouTubers EQ their microphones because it's endless plosives. With the Traceless, however, it's just the voice. No reverb, no boom, just a nice mono image in the center of your head. This is a great potential antidote to the excessive usage of MV7s/SM57s.


----------



## 40760

assassin10000 said:


> I remember thinking they were the same user, just started a new username as people stopped responding to the old one? Because the thought process, description and posts were almost identical.



Not wonder that uncanny resemblence...


----------



## 40760 (Jul 30, 2021)

Seems like the Smabat Store in AE is selling a pair of the M0 module (shell only) for a really good price. These paired with the a set of gold drivers is still pretty affordable.

For those who already have MMCX cables can consider this.


----------



## Ronion

Here’s the link: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...tore_pc_home.productList_1398137431.subject_7

Disclaimer: I cannot be held responsible for your divorce.


----------



## 40760

Ronion said:


> Here’s the link: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...tore_pc_home.productList_1398137431.subject_7
> 
> Disclaimer: I cannot be held responsible for your divorce.



You just have to link it don't you?


----------



## furyossa

Ronion said:


> Here’s the link: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...tore_pc_home.productList_1398137431.subject_7
> 
> *Disclaimer: I cannot be held responsible for your divorce.*


Then I guess I'm lucky here


----------



## furyossa (Jul 31, 2021)

Hmm ... Now that we mention the M0 model, it would be nice to design an *M0 Pro* version for DIY fans, where drivers compatible with the Ms Pro model would be used.
What do you think, guys?


----------



## emusic13

So one order comes with 2 drivers? It says per piece but in the faqs it says 1 order 2 drivers.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

furyossa said:


> Hmm ... Now that we mention the M0 model, it would be nice to design an *M0 Pro* version for DIY fans, where drivers compatible with the Ms Pro model would be used.
> What do you think, guys?


I'm too new to the group to really understand, but I'm curious to find out!


----------



## baskingshark

emusic13 said:


> So one order comes with 2 drivers? It says per piece but in the faqs it says 1 order 2 drivers.



U better message the seller to confirm this.

Chifi parlance likes to combine drivers. Maybe 2 drivers to them means a pair, not 2 sperate sets.

A lot of chifi like to combine driver count on both sides during advertisement or sales. Eg they add five drivers per side in an iem housing and call it a ten driver iem.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 31, 2021)

DBaldock9 said:


> Which USB-C pins (for each insertion direction) are the phones & dongles using for the analog audio signals?
> .





miserybeforethemusic said:


> Here's what I could find:
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like pins A6/A7/B6/B7, then?





DBaldock9 said:


> And, it looks like they're using the A8 & B8 (SBU1 & SBU2) pins, to somehow provide the Audio L & R (GND) and Microphone signals.


The D+/-; VBUS; SBU; & even sometimes the VCONN pinout can all be involved in/with _audio adapter accessory mode_... the standard is still in it's infancy and unfortunately, there are a few different wiring patterns employed at the USB-C port level which is causing some combability issues but it should iron itself out in another year or so.

The eleven (11) possibly involved pinouts in _audio accessory mode_ (analog audio mode) broken down as follows:

A4 = VBUS = Bus Power
A6 = D+ = Dp1 = Positive; Position 1; USB 2.0 Differential Pair
A7 = D-  = Dn1 = Negative; Position 1; USB 2.0 Differential Pair
A8 = SBU1 = SBU_A = Sideband Use A
A9 = VBUS = Bus Power
B4 = VBUS = Bus Power
_B5 = VCONN = For Powered Cables = USB Charging required for certain powered audio adapter designs_
B6 = D+ = Dp2 = Positive; Position 2; USB 2.0 Differential Pair
B7 = D-  = Dn2 = Negative; Position 2; USB 2.0 Differential Pair
B8 = SBU2 = SBU_B = Sideband Use B
B9 = VBUS = Bus Power

Now the argument that routing analog audio this way is noisier (instead of via a 3.5mm audio jack) is merited in that the audio signal (D+/-) is placed next to noisy power and high-speed data lines which potentially could reduce audio performance... however, these potentially noisy pinouts are *not active* in _audio accessory mode_ and in case of those rare adapter designs using the powered B5 (VCONN) pinout both TI and third party testing has yet to show any detectable noise interference (I tried my damnedest to create 'human ear' detectable noise via B5 and was unsuccessful). USB-C pinout positions and overall layout was wonderfully master-minded to avoid noise interference, coupled with wire shielding, the format seems to work quite well in most all cases, most especially in _audio accessory mode_.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

WoodyLuvr said:


> The D+/-; VBUS; SBU; & even sometimes the VCONN pinout are involved in/with _audio adapter accessory mode_... the eleven (11) possibly involved pinouts broken down as follows:
> 
> A4 = VBUS = Bus Power
> A6 = D+ = Dp1 = Positive; Position 1; USB 2.0 Differential Pair
> ...


Feel like I was just taken to school in the best way possible and I love it. I figured, assuming audio accessory mode was set to active, the USB power rails would be switched off by proxy, but couldn't trace it out for some reason. Appreciate you


----------



## furyossa

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'm too new to the group to really understand, but I'm curious to find out!


I was thinking of the Smabat RnD team  Just a simple shell we could play with and of course the ring adapter for DIY drivers


----------



## jao29

n00b said:


> can vouch for chaconne -- IMO worth it at $300 because nothing I've listened to comes close to its presentation of female vocals. potential drawbacks are lack of replaceable cable, heft/comfort for extended listening, and can only be worn wires down (not over the ear) so not the best for walking around. EBX21 addresses all of those except do not sound 'as good' or as special as chaconne, but are still very competitive and TOTL worthy. I would say when judging by the price tag, EBX21 dont offer as much value, unless you love the included cable and get good use out of it. The cable probably accounts for half of the cost if bought new and I ended up wanting to replace the cable for mine for a different balanced termination and better ergonomics for over ear wearing.


How is the build quality of the Chaconne’s? And is it versatile enough for rock music? Tia!


----------



## Ronion (Jul 31, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> You just have to link it don't you?


I couldn’t help it.  Since they gave me my money back and I’m blown away by these SMABAT drivers, I think these are worth the risk.  Combining these with the 150 Ohm drivers may be the best deal in audio ever.  same could be said for the 40Ohm—since I have a set of these, they are going in these shells if they arrived.  They are already paid for.


furyossa said:


> Then I guess I'm lucky here


AliExpress is saving you the cost of a divorce lawyer! 


emusic13 said:


> So one order comes with 2 drivers? It says per piece but in the faqs it says 1 order 2 drivers.


Order from SMABAT and only place one order and get a pair of earphones drivers.  IOW, 1 order comes with a left and a right.  For under $30 USD you should be able to get a TOTLish earbud If you have cables at home.

i just figured out how to multiquotepost and perhaps invented a contraction in the process.


----------



## Ronion

WoodyLuvr said:


> The D+/-; VBUS; SBU; & even sometimes the VCONN pinout can all be involved in/with _audio adapter accessory mode_... the standard is still in it's infancy and unfortunately, there are a few different wiring patterns employed at the USB-C port level which is causing some combability issues but it should iron itself out in another year or so.
> 
> The eleven (11) possibly involved pinouts in _audio accessory mode_ (analog audio mode) broken down as follows:
> 
> ...


I was just about to say this same thing!  (Okay, that was a lie.  In truth I don’t think I could even figure out what you are talking about but this sure sounds awesome 🤩)

The ability of some of you blows my mind.  Thank you 🙏


----------



## Ronion

furyossa said:


> Hmm ... Now that we mention the M0 model, it would be nice to design an *M0 Pro* version for DIY fans, where drivers compatible with the Ms Pro model would be used.
> What do you think, guys?


Now you are trying to get me divorced….


----------



## furyossa (Jul 31, 2021)

Ronion said:


> Now you are trying to get me divorced….


it's payback time, my friend 
But don't worry this will be just the another rabbit hole, nothing unknown here


----------



## baskingshark

Ronion said:


> Now you are trying to get me divorced….



The good thing about the M2S Pro and M0 are that u can get interchangable modular drivers, to give a different sound signature.

So the other half only sees the M2S Pro and M0 on the table, but she don't know there are spare aftermarket drivers hidden somewhere else. So she thinks there is only one earbud bought hahaha.


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> The good thing about the M2S Pro and M0 are that u can get interchangable modular drivers, to give a different sound signature.
> 
> So the other half only sees the M2S Pro and M0 on the table, but she don't know there are spare aftermarket drivers hidden somewhere else. So she thinks there is only one earbud bought hahaha.


you're even "worse" than me, BTW... nice explanation


----------



## Ronion

Very clever @baskingshark!  This has to smartest bunch of audio folk on the web.  If she figures out that you are changing your drivers, you can just say it’s cheap to replace a blown driver, but more costly to replace the whole bud.


----------



## 40760

baskingshark said:


> The good thing about the M2S Pro and M0 are that u can get interchangable modular drivers, to give a different sound signature.
> 
> So the other half only sees the M2S Pro and M0 on the table, but she don't know there are spare aftermarket drivers hidden somewhere else. So she thinks there is only one earbud bought hahaha.



Are the M2S Pro and M0 vastly different sounding when using the same drivers? I think this is will the deciding factor for which shell module to start with for a new Smabat buyer like myself.


----------



## Ronion

So for $9.80: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...0o.store_pc_home.productList_1398137431.pic_0
plus $11.00: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003019400183.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.773d4c4dq3ovLt
and a cable of choice you can have an incredible set of earbuds.  I wonder what would be an ideal cable for that shell.

disclaimer: this post is intended to bring joy to @furyossa who will now be able to sit back and watch the rest of us complain about our better half filing for divorce (of which I cannot be held accountable).


----------



## baskingshark

palestofwhite said:


> Are the M2S Pro and M0 vastly different sounding when using the same drivers? I think this is will the deciding factor for which shell module to start with for a new Smabat buyer like myself.



They are rather different actually.

The M2S Pro is thicker in note weight with more subbass and slightly better technicalities.
In contrast, the M0 sounds thinner in note weight, is bass lite and has more boosted upper frequencies.


----------



## Ronion

baskingshark said:


> They are rather different actually.
> 
> The M2S Pro is thicker in note weight with more subbass and slightly better technicalities.
> In contrast, the M0 sounds thinner in note weight, is bass lite and has more boosted upper frequencies.


This makes me think I’m going to pull the screen off of the M0 labyrinth (or whatever they call it) and see how that goes.  I have a tuning kit to replace it if I prefer it as it comes.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Ronion said:


> So for $9.80: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...0o.store_pc_home.productList_1398137431.pic_0
> plus $11.00: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003019400183.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.773d4c4dq3ovLt
> and a cable of choice you can have an incredible set of earbuds.  I wonder what would be an ideal cable for that shell.
> 
> disclaimer: this post is intended to bring joy to @furyossa who will now be able to sit back and watch the rest of us complain about our better half filing for divorce (of which I cannot be held accountable).


Just to prove divorce won't enter this equation, guess I have to be in...


----------



## baskingshark

Ronion said:


> This makes me think I’m going to pull the screen off of the M0 labyrinth (or whatever they call it) and see how that goes.  I have a tuning kit to replace it if I prefer it as it comes.



Yeah the tuning filters will surely make a difference to the sound. This is from the SMABAT damper page:









It seems if you want it to have more bass, take out the damper totally. The dampers seem to affect the 300 Hz to 2 kHz regions predominantly, but the ear takes the entire frequency spectrum as a whole. So changes to the upper mids/treble will make the ear perceive the bass to be different ("see saw effect").

So many permutations at play for these SMABAT modular sets:
1) Aftermarket drivers
2) Damper type
3) Foam (full) versus donut versus silicone cover versus double foams
4) Cable - for cable believers
5) Fit - wearing it over ear/cable down may change the insertion depth


----------



## furyossa

Ronion said:


> This makes me think I’m going to pull the screen off of the M0 labyrinth (or whatever they call it) and see how that goes.  I have a tuning kit to replace it if I prefer it as it comes.


That's the spirit
Are you sure that M0 has labyrinth vent system?


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> Yeah the tuning filters will surely make a difference to the sound. This is from the SMABAT damper page:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice find, I missed it


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jul 31, 2021)

This should be fun. Bring on the jeers about the Super One driver. I'm ready 

Even went back and picked up another pair of silver cables. Let's hope they don't have to sub with the Super Litz again.



Link for anyone interested:
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mrF7gwf


----------



## Ronion (Jul 31, 2021)

furyossa said:


> That's the spirit
> Are you sure that M0 has labyrinth vent system?


These are from one of the reviews here on HeadFi.  Combine that with bassier drivers and these should do fairly well I would think.

@miserybeforethemusic, your story better stay the same as @RikudouGoku ’s because I don’t see any disclaimer in your post….


----------



## LikeHolborn

Anyone know a forward midrange based recessed treble but happy sound (not dull, dark or boring) Voices preferably forward. No "ch" and "s" sounds please, no delicate thin treble either nor rounded off exaggerated low midrange. Anyone heard the q40? Like that, that headphone was sweet. I don't need "Soundstage" or "air" 


LikeHolborn said:


> Hey man, i trust your judgement, what is the boe that is better than remax-303? Also can you please recommend me some buds that are as comfortable (small) as remax 303, exact same sound signature if slightly less treble, i found it to be engaging with a present or forward sound, sweet. I bought many expensive headphones but they all failed me, i think if i can get the same as 303 but better I'll be good. Many thanks


----------



## LikeHolborn

That smabat looks perfect in the graph, except the dip at 1 khz, can anyone let me know which are kinda like that, flat and taking a step back in the treble? Except not dull or dark, would love sprakle in the high mids. Much appreciated.


----------



## furyossa

LikeHolborn said:


> Anyone know a forward midrange based recessed treble but happy sound (not dull, dark or boring) Voices preferably forward. No "ch" and "s" sounds please, no delicate thin treble either nor rounded off exaggerated low midrange. Anyone heard the q40? Like that, that headphone was sweet. I don't need "Soundstage" or "air"


Read this and fill this form:

_*source* (using a DAC/AMP/DAP/PC/smartphone/streamer; audio file type including bit & sample rate)_
_*preferred connection* (termination type e.g. 3.5SE/4.4TRRS/2.5mm; single-end vs balanced; mic/no mic)_
_*listening level & time* (volume, and for how long?)_
_*listening environment* (mobile/office desk/home desktop/listening room)_
_*preferred sound signature* (bright; flat/neutral; balanced/natural/smooth; dark/warm; extra bass/bassy; L/U/V-shaped)_
_*preferred genre* (rock, heavy metal, pop, classical, OST, hip-hop, R&B, Korean-Pop, EDM, podcasts, audiobooks, etc.)_
_*preferred shell type* (depends on your ears and personal comfort; please see *here*)_
_*preferred brand* (only applicable if asking for a model recommendation within a single brand)_
_*price range *(probably the most important; what are you willing/looking to spend?)_


----------



## LikeHolborn

furyossa said:


> Read this and fill this form:
> 
> _*source* (using a DAC/AMP/DAP/PC/smartphone/streamer; audio file type including bit & sample rate)_
> _*preferred connection* (termination type e.g. 3.5SE/4.4TRRS/2.5mm; single-end vs balanced; mic/no mic)_
> ...


Wow, lol came ready.. thank you, I'll fill it and get back to you.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jao29 said:


> How is the build quality of the Chaconne’s? And is it versatile enough for rock music? Tia!


Build quality is great but the obvious weak point would be the non-replaceable cable. 

I wouldnt buy it for rock/metal though, with those genre you want something warmer and with more bass (and yet tight and fast, so unfortunately I will not recommend the Yincrow X6). Smabat M2S Pro and the Yincrow RW-2000 fits that better.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Got a shipping notices for the Smabat and NiceHCK orders. Dang, that was quick. Also makes 2/2 so far in good luck with Smabat (probably 6/7 for NiceHCK at this point...we all have bad days). Man, that's refreshing.

This is an extra-special treat on the M2s Pro this morning. Sounds are coming from everywhere


----------



## jao29

RikudouGoku said:


> Build quality is great but the obvious weak point would be the non-replaceable cable.
> 
> I wouldnt buy it for rock/metal though, with those genre you want something warmer and with more bass (and yet tight and fast, so unfortunately I will not recommend the Yincrow X6). Smabat M2S Pro and the Yincrow RW-2000 fits that better.


Thanks. Im kind of unsure buying the M2S Pro though. I had the M2 Pro and while it’s good with the second filters (thanks @baskingshark ), the timbre just wasn’t right for me. It sounded metallic and off, there’s also something wrong with the positioning of the mids and highs as well, it’s like they are both scrunched together.


----------



## jao29

LikeHolborn said:


> Anyone know a forward midrange based recessed treble but happy sound (not dull, dark or boring) Voices preferably forward. No "ch" and "s" sounds please, no delicate thin treble either nor rounded off exaggerated low midrange. Anyone heard the q40? Like that, that headphone was sweet. I don't need "Soundstage" or "air"


Maybe you could try the Ucotech Es903 as it’s mid-centric. Or the ShoonTh earbuds, the entry level one.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jao29 said:


> Thanks. Im kind of unsure buying the M2S Pro though. I had the M2 Pro and while it’s good with the second filters (thanks @baskingshark ), the timbre just wasn’t right for me. It sounded metallic and off, there’s also something wrong with the positioning of the mids and highs as well, it’s like they are both scrunched together.


Is it as natural-sounding as the Snow Lotus to my ears? Not on everything, but it's way more compatible with modern genres than the Snow Lotus seems to be.

But if you already had the M2 Pro and weren't a fan, it might just not be your thing. I don't have enough credible evidence to make a burn-in case, but I thought similarly until I gave it more play time.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jao29 said:


> Thanks. Im kind of unsure buying the M2S Pro though. I had the M2 Pro and while it’s good with the second filters (thanks @baskingshark ), the timbre just wasn’t right for me. It sounded metallic and off, there’s also something wrong with the positioning of the mids and highs as well, it’s like they are both scrunched together.


The M2 Pro seems to be different though. But the M2S Pro definitely has a natural timbre, whether or not the tonality fits your library is a different matter though.


----------



## 1Q84 (Jul 31, 2021)

For M2s pro owners, I almost dismissed these buds at first due to the mids sounding thin when used with the stock cable, then I changed the stock cable with IMO the best cheapest cable, the FAAEAL copper litz ($12), didn't expect it to change much but it really did. Some noticeable changes are that mid bass became punchier, vocals became fuller, and tamed down the harsh upper mids peak. Here's some short comparisons with my current best neutral and bass head buds, thru 3 days of A/B. My preference leans on being a mid-head while still having good extensions on both ends.

Set-up: Sony NW-A55 with VE Clan thin foams on all buds

*M2s Pro vs Willsound Mk2:*

M2s Pro sounds like a brighter Willsound Mk2. Mk2 has more mid-bass quantity and quality, making it warmer and the vocals fuller. M2s Pro sounds airier and slightly better treble extension, though the Mk2 doesn't sound congested at all.
Detail retrieval is almost the same, with maybe the M2s pro having clearer microdetails due to upper mids peak and the Mk2 having more mid bass.
For bass-heads, I would still recommend the Mk2 for a more satisfying bass physicality without the bass bleeding towards the mids, M2s Pro mid bass impact sounds soft even when compared with the next earbud.
*M2s Pro vs Toneking Viridis:*

M2s Pro clearly has more sub-bass quantity and digs deeper. M2s also has slightly more midbass quantity, but Viridis mid bass has better impact, imo.
Mids, especially vocals, sounds fuller on the Viridis. M2s Pro has recessed mids compared to the Viridis.
Viridis has better treble extension and resolution. Viridis sounds more transparent and is less forgiving on badly recorded albums.
Build quality is better on the Viridis. The mmcx connector on the M2s Pro seems of lower quality compared with what Toneking uses, changing cables seems less smooth compared to other mmcx connectors I have experienced.
I still prefer the Viridis as my best neutral buds due to it having fuller mids and more resolving treble, which imo is much harder to find at this price range.
Overall, the M2s Pro offers a good value to be an all-around earbud if you just want to keep your collection small. Though, don't forget to take note some of the QC issues reported on this thread, which I suspect is possibly due to their questionable packaging.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

1Q84 said:


> Overall, the M2s Pro offers a good value to be an all-around earbud if you just want to keep your collection small. Though, don't forget to take note some of the QC issues reported on this thread, which I suspect is possibly due to their questionable packaging.


Can only fit so many "small bats" in one box hahaha.

I totally agree with your assessment of the M2s Pro, to the point where I'd almost say you might as well buy a cable in tandem for any prospective new buyers. Doesn't have to be expensive, as can be seen. I have high hopes for that 4N Litz from NiceHCK only because the one I have is just a hair too heavy for my tastes.

These wouldn't be heavy at all, but total overkill:


----------



## jao29

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Is it as natural-sounding as the Snow Lotus to my ears? Not on everything, but it's way more compatible with modern genres than the Snow Lotus seems to be.
> 
> But if you already had the M2 Pro and weren't a fan, it might just not be your thing. I don't have enough credible evidence to make a burn-in case, but I thought similarly until I gave it more play time.


Hmmm. No, the M2 Pro sounds artificial. I can’t quite describe it though. Whenever I listen to it I feel like there’s something wrong. Thus, I rate the Snow Lotus 1.0 higher than the M2 Pro. I use the Faaeal’s more than the M2 Pro.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jao29 said:


> Hmmm. No, the M2 Pro sounds artificial. I can’t quite describe it though. Whenever I listen to it I feel like there’s something wrong. Thus, I rate the Snow Lotus 1.0 higher than the M2 Pro. I use the Faaeal’s more than the M2 Pro.


At first so did I. Changed too many variables at once, though, so I can't tell you if it was a source swap, cable swap, brain burn-in or what changed my mind, but I grab the M2s Pro a lot more than I do the Snow Lotus lately. They're both fantastic sets in my opinion, but catering to different musical tastes. Can't say I think the timbre is artificial, but I do know what you're talking about with the Snow Lotus; they're pretty special.


----------



## nymz

1Q84 said:


> For M2s pro owners, I almost dismissed these buds at first due to the mids sounding thin when used with the stock cable, then I changed the stock cable with IMO the best cheapest cable, the FAAEAL copper litz ($12), didn't expect it to change much but it really did. Some noticeable changes are that mid bass became punchier, vocals became fuller, and tamed down the harsh upper mids peak. Here's some short comparisons with my current best neutral and bass head buds, thru 3 days of A/B. My preference leans on being a mid-head while still having good extensions on both ends.
> 
> Set-up: Sony NW-A55 with VE Clan thin foams on all buds
> 
> ...



I never used the stock cable (didnt even unpacked it). To be fair im using a cable that costs more than the set alone, sounded very good OOTB. But seeing your impressions, I think you'll like golden driver more (as I do).

They really need to change the packaging. The uncovered wires are a ticking time bomb.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

nymz said:


> I never used the stock cable (didnt even unpacked it). To be fair im using a cable that costs more than the set alone, sounded very good OOTB. But seeing your impressions, I think you'll like golden driver more (as I do).
> 
> They really need to change the packaging. The uncovered wires are a ticking time bomb.


Maybe I'm too used to uncrating really expensive lab equipment that it didn't even phase me that the drivers were separated (and connected). You should see how some of these companies ship gear; it would worry you. Ironically, all Smabat has to do is unplug the wire prior to shipping and it would look exactly the same.

Can't wait for the golden driver. Kinda curious about the Super One, to be honest. Might have to make it a crusade to find a shell/filter/foam/cable/source combo that makes them really stand out.

Oh and I gave the X6 to my son. Too similar in sound to the Snow Lotus to my ears, so it seemed superfluous to keep both. He's happily using them now for some light PC gaming. There's just a touch less bloom on the Snow Lotus; I think my ears prefer that.


----------



## nymz

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Maybe I'm too used to uncrating really expensive lab equipment that it didn't even phase me that the drivers were separated (and connected). You should see how some of these companies ship gear; it would worry you. Ironically, all Smabat has to do is unplug the wire prior to shipping and it would look exactly the same.



Thats scary. Not just that but some couriers also like to play kick the ball with packages...



miserybeforethemusic said:


> Can't wait for the golden driver. Kinda curious about the Super One, to be honest. Might have to make it a crusade to find a shell/filter/foam/cable/source combo that makes them really stand out.



Let us know! Rly invested into m2s pro. If it sounds any good, im going to drop some bucks on it. But im really septic about it after super one reviews...

Also remember golden has slightly less bass, but is a lot more balanced, imo.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

nymz said:


> Thats scary. Not just that but some couriers also like to play kick the ball with packages...


Luckily it's harder to get away with doing that to wooden crates, but there is so much free air in those containers, it's amazing things don't move around more.


nymz said:


> Let us know! Rly invested into m2s pro. If it sounds any good, im going to drop some bucks on it. But im really septic about it after super one reviews...


Definitely will do. I'm wondering if it's a potential tuning issue with the Super One's shell that's throwing off FR (at least compared to what we consider its house sound). Maybe it'll have an easier time in the M0 or M2s shell. Worst case, I'm only out $30 instead of $300.


nymz said:


> Also remember golden has slightly less bass, but is a lot more balanced, imo.


I'm okay with that. More than willing to stick with something more timbre-rich, even if it's a little bass-light. Appreciate the heads up.



From left to right: pure silver 8N Litz, OCC 16-core, SPC 16-core. All NiceHCK. Drives me nuts that I can't conclude this scientifically/empirically, but man if that silver cable isn't the ideal pairing with that M2s Pro. Maybe it's because my head's pick up on less crossover between the bass and mids using the silver cable. OCC is a little warmer and SPC sits somewhere in the middle.

All 3 work just fine for pirate metal. The genre itself might need some more work lyrically, though.


----------



## nymz

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Luckily it's harder to get away with doing that to wooden crates, but there is so much free air in those containers, it's amazing things don't move around more.
> 
> Definitely will do. I'm wondering if it's a potential tuning issue with the Super One's shell that's throwing off FR (at least compared to what we consider its house sound). Maybe it'll have an easier time in the M0 or M2s shell. Worst case, I'm only out $30 instead of $300.
> 
> ...



Well, if I find (already did) any cable doing something I like, I tell to myself its placebo and just use it. I think people need to use whatever feels right for them.

With that said, I'll never recommend a cable just because sounds better to me. I'll recommend according to low resistance and build quality (thanks to @Rikudou_Goku 's measures - need to order a meter).

Can't stand people that say you need X cable for something to sound good. If it sounds crap to your ears, it will sound crap no matter what. If it already sounds good, it will always sound good, and might get better if you find combinations that work better for you (being cables, foams, tips, amps, etc).

Also i dont believe that two cables that measure the same, built the same, same materials, but one costs 10x more because its branded, sound different.


----------



## RikudouGoku

nymz said:


> Well, if I find (already did) any cable doing something I like, I tell to myself its placebo and just use it. I think people need to use whatever feels right for them.
> 
> With that said, I'll never recommend a cable just because sounds better to me. I'll recommend according to low resistance and build quality (thanks to @Rikudou_Goku 's measures - need to order a meter).
> 
> ...


100%, in most cases its due to people going from a cable with SE to balanced. In which case the amp will most likely have a lot more output power on the balanced output than the SE. 

Otherwise, placebo is lovely.   

(read this article if you have time: https://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2012/04/what-we-hear.html )


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

nymz said:


> Well, if I find (already did) any cable doing something I like, I tell to myself its placebo and just use it. I think people need to use whatever feels right for them.
> 
> With that said, I'll never recommend a cable just because sounds better to me. I'll recommend according to low resistance and build quality (thanks to @Rikudou_Goku 's measures - need to order a meter).
> 
> ...


Perhaps, but you tapped on the impedance question a bit and that's why I gave such a disclaimer; I'm aware how hot-button the issue is. Have a feeling all 3 of these cables would measure differently, but I don't have gear here that would read out to enough resolution to really tell me anything. Plus, we're dealing with reactive loads on dynamic content, not fixed resistive loads. Makes for some weird circuit math. In the end, it really does seem like an issue of impedance-matching.

Anywho, the silver cable is an absolute looker and, since it's effectively the same price as its competition, don't even have to pay extra for the privilege. Good enough for me.


----------



## nymz

RikudouGoku said:


> 100%, in most cases its due to people going from a cable with SE to balanced. In which case the amp will most likely have a lot more output power on the balanced output than the SE.
> 
> Otherwise, placebo is lovely.
> 
> (read this article if you have time: https://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2012/04/what-we-hear.html )



All my cables are balanced, thats why I always say its from my brain or resistances.

Also, I like to match cables for the looks. Looks make things sound better, right? 😂


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Ok that's not too shabby. Hijacked these earhooks from the VE EX-Pack. Makes insertion/removal dead simple and they legitimately lock in place. I lose my sub-bass and a good amount of the lower bass due to losing the foams, but the confidence of this fit might make me ignore all of that.

I consider this a headbanger-approved tweak


----------



## nymz

Need to try this. I use donuts on it and i think you can use both at the same time. Need to try it, even tho i use them over ear.


----------



## RikudouGoku

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Ok that's not too shabby. Hijacked these earhooks from the VE EX-Pack. Makes insertion/removal dead simple and they legitimately lock in place. I lose my sub-bass and a good amount of the lower bass due to losing the foams, but the confidence of this fit might make me ignore all of that.
> 
> I consider this a headbanger-approved tweak


You cant use it with foam + hooks?

Like having the foams under it and then placing the hooks over the foam.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

RikudouGoku said:


> You cant use it with foam + hooks?
> 
> Like having the foams under it and then placing the hooks over the foam.


Potentially, but I'm trying to do this in stages. I can try foams + hooks next, but the rubber on these hooks is fairly tight; just need to be sure to not tear the foam in the process.


----------



## 1Q84

jao29 said:


> Hmmm. No, the M2 Pro sounds artificial. I can’t quite describe it though. Whenever I listen to it I feel like there’s something wrong. Thus, I rate the Snow Lotus 1.0 higher than the M2 Pro. I use the Faaeal’s more than the M2 Pro.


Have you tried changing the cable and giving it more power? I also found the M2s Pro sounding artificial at first due to the combination of its boosted sub bass, soft mid-bass and thin mids. Changing the cable helped a bit, but the somehow incoherent transition from the sub bass, recessed mids and upper mid peak is still the weakest point of the M2s pro's tuning.


nymz said:


> I never used the stock cable (didnt even unpacked it). To be fair im using a cable that costs more than the set alone, sounded very good OOTB. But seeing your impressions, I think you'll like golden driver more (as I do).
> 
> They really need to change the packaging. The uncovered wires are a ticking time bomb.


Too late mate since I have already ordered my first pair of Blurs after having a positive experience with the work of master Wong's friend Willy. The willsound mk2 were able to perform at the same level and with better tuning than the M2s pro at less than half the price.


----------



## Ronion (Jul 31, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Ok that's not too shabby. Hijacked these earhooks from the VE EX-Pack. Makes insertion/removal dead simple and they legitimately lock in place. I lose my sub-bass and a good amount of the lower bass due to losing the foams, but the confidence of this fit might make me ignore all of that.
> 
> I consider this a headbanger-approved tweak


I cut holes in my foams and slipped them over the shark fins.  I fell asleep with this combo on last night and only woke when my Little Bear’s battery died.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

1Q84 said:


> Too late mate since I have already ordered my first pair of Blurs after having a positive experience with the work of master Wong's friend Willy. The willsound mk2 were able to perform at the same level and with better tuning than the M2s pro at less than half the price.


My wallet would like a word with you about Willsound...I see PK shells in there as well. Interesting.

Eyeing that MMCX MK2 now. Maybe next check.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Ronion said:


> I cut holes in my foams and slipped them over the shark fins.  I fell asleep with this combo on last night and only woke when my Little Bear’s battery died.



First thin foam on. That's wasn't stressful at all...this stuff tears like crazy.


----------



## Ronion

I’m using Heigi foams now—white on the right (black on the left).  They are thick, resilient, and rarely complain.  Every note is present and accounted for—150 Ohm driver trapezing without a net.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Ronion said:


> I’m using Heigi foams now—white on the right (black on the left).  They are thick, resilient, and rarely complain.  Every note is present and accounted for—150 Ohm driver trapezing without a net.



Opted for the thin foams first because Im apparently a glutton for punishment. Looks decent enough and @RikudouGoku you'll be happy to know they are ridiculously comfortable. You do get your sub-bass back, especially if you take a little extra time rotating the hooks around until the fit improves.

I really like this. Good recommendation.


----------



## pfloyd

I’ve been using my lowly M1s like this for some time now, and they fit and sound great! Too bad the cable is turning green 🤢


----------



## Ronion

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Opted for the thin foams first because Im apparently a glutton for punishment. Looks decent enough and @RikudouGoku you'll be happy to know they are ridiculously comfortable. You do get your sub-bass back, especially if you take a little extra time rotating the hooks around until the fit improves.
> 
> I really like this. Good recommendation.


You have now mastered The Foam-Over(not to be confused with The Comb-Over).  Male pattern baldness sufferers unite!


----------



## nymz

1Q84 said:


> Have you tried changing the cable and giving it more power? I also found the M2s Pro sounding artificial at first due to the combination of its boosted sub bass, soft mid-bass and thin mids. Changing the cable helped a bit, but the somehow incoherent transition from the sub bass, recessed mids and upper mid peak is still the weakest point of the M2s pro's tuning.
> 
> Too late mate since I have already ordered my first pair of Blurs after having a positive experience with the work of master Wong's friend Willy. The willsound mk2 were able to perform at the same level and with better tuning than the M2s pro at less than half the price.



My first Blur is also being made as we speak. Which one did you get? 

Cant wait!


----------



## samandhi (Jul 31, 2021)

jao29 said:


> How is the build quality of the Chaconne’s? And is it versatile enough for rock music? Tia!





RikudouGoku said:


> Build quality is great but the obvious weak point would be the non-replaceable cable.
> 
> I wouldnt buy it for rock/metal though, with those genre you want something warmer and with more bass (and yet tight and fast, so unfortunately I will not recommend the Yincrow X6). Smabat M2S Pro and the Yincrow RW-2000 fits that better.





jao29 said:


> Hmmm. No, the M2 Pro sounds artificial. I can’t quite describe it though. Whenever I listen to it I feel like there’s something wrong. Thus, I rate the Snow Lotus 1.0 higher than the M2 Pro. I use the Faaeal’s more than the M2 Pro.


I have to agree with @RikudouGoku on build quality. Also the stems are very long. But, otherwise they are like a brick house, and the cable really doesn't feel flimsy at all. It is rather nice (to look at AND for durability IMO).

Here I have to disagree just a bit. I find them really great for rock(really any genre to my ears). I also agree with your assessment of the M2S Pro but to a lesser extent. They do sound a bit tinny, and they are shouty to me. I have changed cables, and they do sound better, and I don't have them completely burned-in yet (I like to think). They aren't unacceptable to my ears like they seem to be for yours, but I notice those qualities you mentioned about them (especially compared to the Chaconne).


miserybeforethemusic said:


> Potentially, but I'm trying to do this in stages. I can try foams + hooks next, but the rubber on these hooks is fairly tight; just need to be sure to not tear the foam in the process.


I like your solution. Here is mine (though with rings instead of the hooks, those held them too far away from ears on the M2S Pro):





Edit: The trick here is to take the MMCX connector off and put them on from the back. This way you don't stretch the foams.


----------



## baskingshark

LikeHolborn said:


> That smabat looks perfect in the graph, except the dip at 1 khz, can anyone let me know which are kinda like that, flat and taking a step back in the treble? Except not dull or dark, would love sprakle in the high mids. Much appreciated.



U can try finding the original SMABAT ST10 (non S version). I find it neutralish with subbass boost, but a slight peak at the upper mids.

Don't think it is in production anymore, but I bought my set at a second hand shop, they appear now and then for sale.


----------



## jao29

1Q84 said:


> Have you tried changing the cable and giving it more power? I also found the M2s Pro sounding artificial at first due to the combination of its boosted sub bass, soft mid-bass and thin mids. Changing the cable helped a bit, but the somehow incoherent transition from the sub bass, recessed mids and upper mid peak is still the weakest point of the M2s pro's tuning.
> 
> Too late mate since I have already ordered my first pair of Blurs after having a positive experience with the work of master Wong's friend Willy. The willsound mk2 were able to perform at the same level and with better tuning than the M2s pro at less than half the price.


I think there’s a misconception about what Smabat earbuds I got. I have the M2 Pro model not the M2s Pro. Haha. I think the M2s Pro is the better sounding of the two but I am wary of buying the M2s Pro version because of my so-so experience with the M2s.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Took the Foam-Over Twins™ with me into the garage today for some pretty vigorous car detailing. Vigorous enough that, should anybody know how to temporarily trade out one's arms, I'd be interested in speaking with you.



Really surprised at how well they stayed locked in. Would have assumed that I wouldn't make it more than 30 minutes of being frustrated with tips shifting around, but they stayed absolutely locked in place. Must have been out there for 3-4 solid hours, too. If I had to take them out for any reason, they went back in just as easily. That's awesome.

This config definitely helps lift the sub-bass weight without overwhelming the bass or mids. Gives things a pretty tasty punch.


----------



## 1Q84

nymz said:


> My first Blur is also being made as we speak. Which one did you get?
> 
> Cant wait!


Cool! I opted to try first the easier to drive blur266 mx32ohm for more flexible usage and for easier comparison with other buds. Here's a photo sent by master Wong:


----------



## jao29 (Jul 31, 2021)

Decided to score my recent earbuds purchases from last year up to this year. 😃 Also, I’ll score my earbuds that I owned throughout the years. My sources are an Ipod Touch 7th gen 256gb and Ak Kann Alpha set to medium gain. My files are at mp3 320 and 256 aac:

1.)Smabat M2 Pro second filter installed(not the M2s Pro) 6/10- weird timbre as I said before and the positioning of the mids and highs are off.

2.)Toneking Viridis- 6.5/10- Bass light even for an earbud. However, mids and highs are amazing, widest soundstage of any earbud I currently own. Even wider than the Onmyoji. Also, female vocals on the Viridis are sublime, this is a double edged sword though since male vocals can be off tonally sometimes. I only rated it this low because I have very few orchestral/sountrack music in my collection.

3.)Catear Audio Mimi- 8/10- I don’t understand why this got tons of hate here on this thread. Haha Relaxed sound sig, the Mimi is warm sounding with fast bass and above average soundstage.

4.) ShoonTh Esep-01 Bl- 8.5/10- basically take the Mimi make the mids more forward and you’ve got the ShoonTh. I use this quite alot currently and I’m satisfied with my purchase.

5.) Yincrow Rw9- 8/10- Lesser bass quantity for me than the X6. Mids are recessed as well and the highs are a boosted in an unnatural way. Still
Amazing bass for an earbud and this is the earbud I’ll recommend along with the X6 for earbud newbies because of the bass.

6.) Yincrow X6- 9/10- Bass quantity and to a lesser extent quality is amazing. Also more natural sounding than the Rw9. Mids are not as recessed as  the Rw9 and highs are decent as well considering the low-end.

7.) Ksearphone Onmyoji- 9.7/10- Build quality aside these are amazing. Anything I throw at this thing it excels. From classical to rock to electronic to movie soundtracks, it’s the most versatile earbud I own, it is only rivaled by the classic Mx980. Bass quality is above average, but the star of the show are the
Mids and highs. Basically take the Mids and highs of the viridis and make it a tad darker, the result is that the Onmyoji is alot more versatile than the Viridis and has better low end. Was suppose to give it a 10/10 but the build quality issues that some users are reporting have me worried.

8.) Willsound Mkii- 10/10- Take the X6, and make it more refined, and you’ve got the Willsound Mkii. This is the upgrade i was looking for when I bought the X6. Better Mids on the willsound.

Old earbuds in my collection:

1.) Ve Monk Plus- 8.5/10- I find a hard time describing the Monk plus. Haha Bass is present and it’s a tad boomy making the mids recessed but on the other hand the sound definitely has body. Highs have a bit of sparkle in them as well. I don’t know exactly why but I keep going back to the Monk Plus despite its flaws. Very fun sounding earbud.

2.) Ve Zen 2.0- 9.7/10- Was originally supposed to give the Zen’s the 10/10 rating but Having to use an amp is a bit of a hassle for me. The Zen’s sound like open back headphones, with the comfort of earbuds imo. Soundstage is wide and I can hear subtle nuances in my music. These are very warm sounding though so if you don’t prefer that sound signature these won’t be for you. Bass is amazing for an earbud.

3.) Penon Bs1 Official- 5/10- I don’t really mind if an earbud lacks bass but an earbud has to do something to compensate for its lack of bass. Unfortunately, the bs1 does nothing to compensate its lack of bass. I found these to be my most underwhelming earbud purchase up to this day. Was originally suppose to give it 4/10 but the build quality is awesome so I bumped it to 5.

4.) Fiio Em3- 7/10- Take the monk plus, make the highs warmer and you’ve got the Em3.

5.) Headroom Ms16- 9/10- Decent bass quality but the above average soundstage coupled with the mids and highs make the Ms16 special imo. True open back earbuds. Neutral to bright sound signature.

6.) Sennheiser MX980- 10/10- This is what got me into to the world of earbuds. Top to bottom, everything is top notch. I do have to recable these as they aren’t working anymore. But this is the benchmark up to this day to what an earbud can do without a portable dac/amp.

7.) Ubiquo/Ucotech Es903- 9/10- Very versatile mids. Male vocals and to a lesser extent female vocals are awesome. Decent bass quality as well. Can’t really complain about the Es903. Midcentric sound signature.

8.) Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0- 9/10- Similar to the monk plus but with better mids and gentler highs. Underrated earbuds imo.

That about covers it. Haha sorry if I couldn’t get into detail as much as some of the better reviewers on this forum. 😅


----------



## 40760

jao29 said:


> Decided to score my recent earbuds purchases from last year up to this year. 😃 Also, I’ll score my earbuds that I owned throughout the years. My sources are an Ipod Touch 7th gen 256gb and Ak Kann Alpha set to medium gain. My files are at mp3 320 and 256 aac:
> 
> 1.)Smabat M2 Pro second filter installed(not the M2s Pro) 6/10- weird timbre as I said before and the positioning of the mids and highs are off.
> 
> ...



Having heard about half of what you have, I have to agree with your assessment.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

nymz said:


> My first Blur is also being made as we speak. Which one did you get?
> 
> Cant wait!


Which model?


1Q84 said:


> Cool! I opted to try first the easier to drive blur266 mx32ohm for more flexible usage and for easier comparison with other buds. Here's a photo sent by master Wong:


You will enjoy the *Blur 266v2 MX32 aPs Retune (32Ω; aka "v2 Retune")* immensely!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

I call this one_ A Semi-Realistic Portrayal of the Headspace One Perceives With the Smabat M2s Pro, Deconstructed_

Kidding aside, M2s Pro folks should give this album a spin on a good source. It's a pretty impressive showing:


----------



## chinmie

jao29 said:


> Decided to score my recent earbuds purchases from last year up to this year. 😃 Also, I’ll score my earbuds that I owned throughout the years. My sources are an Ipod Touch 7th gen 256gb and Ak Kann Alpha set to medium gain. My files are at mp3 320 and 256 aac:
> 
> 1.)Smabat M2 Pro second filter installed(not the M2s Pro) 6/10- weird timbre as I said before and the positioning of the mids and highs are off.
> 
> ...



now I'm curious of those MS16, funny enough i haven't had the chance to try it even though it's been around for some time.. seems to be in my alley of sound preference


----------



## nymz

WoodyLuvr said:


> Which model?
> 
> You will enjoy the *Blur 266v2 MX32 aPs Retune (32Ω; aka "v2 Retune")* immensely!



blur 266 pk32ohm in 3.5mm with higher second mountain tuning (black shell) 

Wanted a fun and easy to drive/plug as my first one


----------



## nymz

jao29 said:


> Decided to score my recent earbuds purchases from last year up to this year. 😃 Also, I’ll score my earbuds that I owned throughout the years. My sources are an Ipod Touch 7th gen 256gb and Ak Kann Alpha set to medium gain. My files are at mp3 320 and 256 aac:
> 
> 1.)Smabat M2 Pro second filter installed(not the M2s Pro) 6/10- weird timbre as I said before and the positioning of the mids and highs are off.
> 
> ...



Thanks for this. Now I feel like trying the Willsound mk2


----------



## 40760

nymz said:


> Thanks for this. Now I feel like trying the Willsound mk2



Willsound MK2 is a great set. Possibly the best sub-bass in any buds I have heard. Kube V1 comes second.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 1, 2021)

nymz said:


> blur 266 pk32ohm in 3.5mm with higher second mountain tuning (black shell)
> 
> Wanted a fun and easy to drive/plug as my first one


Nice! I have not heard the *Higher Tuning* version of the *Blur 266 PK32 Second Mountain (32Ω)* yet. Look forward to hearing your impressions.


----------



## Ronion

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Took the Foam-Over Twins™ with me into the garage today for some pretty vigorous car detailing. Vigorous enough that, should anybody know how to temporarily trade out one's arms, I'd be interested in speaking with you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Exactly what I have been hearing!  Personally I really love these with the Little Bear B4x and now I love them again with My FiiO A5.  The FiiO makes these thing sound like that are everywhere--HUGE.  3D music machines...  The Little Bear reels it in a bit and makes them smooth and warm and lush.  So far though, that configuration you've got there has completely changed my mind about the capabilities of earbuds.  I'm not saying those are the best in the world, but they seem worth the price of admission.

Now all the talk of Blur has me wanting to try, but I can't figure out where to buy.....


----------



## Ronion

jao29 said:


> 3.)Catear Audio Mimi- 8/10- I don’t understand why this got tons of hate here on this thread. Haha Relaxed sound sig, the Mimi is warm sounding with fast bass and above average soundstage.


I think when I personally first heard these earbuds I was hoping for a different signature.  Now that I've had more time with them I do like them better than I did--actually much better.  It does have fast bass and an above average soundstage for sure, but a bit too bass lite for me still.  They are certainly better than I initially thought though I can tell you that and they seem to do better with the foams I am using now.  I like them much better at the moment than I ever have.  My dog decided to shred their original foams.  Best thing he's done for my hobby  I have no idea what foams I have on now.  I've got to do a shootout soon because these are surprising me tonight.


----------



## jao29

palestofwhite said:


> Having heard about half of what you have, I have to agree with your assessment.


Thank! I’m sorry that my mini round up isn’t as detailed as some reviews are. Hopefully my post helps people who are new to earbuds. 😊 There are so many amazing deals out there and quite frankly it can be a bit intimidating if you’re a newbie for earbuds.


nymz said:


> Thanks for this. Now I feel like trying the Willsound mk2


You’re welcome! Yes, Do buy the Willsound mkii when you get the chance. It’s amazing! Haha. Also, the creator of the Willsound is very accommodating. I’m sure he’ll be glad to answer your questions. 😊


chinmie said:


> now I'm curious of those MS16, funny enough i haven't had the chance to try it even though it's been around for some time.. seems to be in my alley of sound preference


The Ms16 is sort of my reset button when it comes to earbuds. Haha If you noticed, I have a preference for warm sound signatures. I use the ms16 when I get tired of that sound signature. Haha. Details on the ms16 are top notch and if that’s you’re preferred sound signature, I can’t recommend the ms16 enough. 😊


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Ronion said:


> Now all the talk of Blur has me wanting to try, but I can't figure out where to buy.....


Contact Wong via DM on *Instagram* or *Facebook*.


----------



## jao29

Ronion said:


> I think when I personally first heard these earbuds I was hoping for a different signature.  Now that I've had more time with them I do like them better than I did--actually much better.  It does have fast bass and an above average soundstage for sure, but a bit too bass lite for me still.  They are certainly better than I initially thought though I can tell you that and they seem to do better with the foams I am using now.  I like them much better at the moment than I ever have.  My dog decided to shred their original foams.  Best thing he's done for my hobby  I have no idea what foams I have on now.  I've got to do a shootout soon because these are surprising me tonight.


Nice! I suggest buying some heigi foams and donut foams as those are very durable and easier to put on various earbuds. Also, the Mimi is my go-to earbud if I want a relaxed listening session, as they are laid back sonically. 😃


----------



## Ronion

I do love HeiGi Foams.  The ones I have on there are just some freebies I had laying around.  I will definitely use some Heigi on these in the near future.  These ones are really sounding good right now.  The white Heigi will look nice as well........ IMO


----------



## RikudouGoku

jao29 said:


> 8.) Willsound Mkii- 10/10- Take the X6, and make it more refined, and you’ve got the Willsound Mkii. This is the upgrade i was looking for when I bought the X6. Better Mids on the willsound.


Are you pulling my leg or are you serious? Is it really a "true" upgrade to the X6? As in having very similar tonality and timbre but better tech/res?


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> Are you pulling my leg or are you serious? Is it really a "true" upgrade to the X6? As in having very similar tonality and timbre but better tech/res?






Down the rabbithole we go!!!


----------



## ian91

baskingshark said:


> Down the rabbithole we go!!!



Stop right there! Chuck says we're not allowed to leave the X6 club, and if we do, he wants the Tshirt back.





Credits to @FranQL


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

ian91 said:


> Stop right there! Chuck says we're not allowed to leave the X6 club, and if we do, he wants the Tshirt back.
> 
> 
> 
> Credits to @FranQL


Chuck can talk to my son. He's got them now. Don't know if he's got what it takes anymore to go against an angsty teenager, though.


----------



## LikeHolborn (Aug 1, 2021)

Source: low-end samsung tablet, lossless, youtube.

Listening level and time: 20/40mins at a time, high volume.

Listening environment: home.

Preferred sound signature: not necessarily tight bass but full bodied (no midbass lump/bump and no subbass). warm sound. In your face (forward), sweet midrange, upfront voices (not articulated, extended), sparkly high mids i guess (i don't mind harshness or shoutiness) and not a dull or dark low treble (again no soundstage or air ambitions here, not aiming for realistic instruments as opposed to metallic treble perhaps) no "ch" and "s" higher treble sibilance recommendations please. engaging, coherent (instruments out back accompanying the voice not fighting for attention or cross talk effect) sound (don't want higher treble distractions ).

Preferred genre: rock, electronic, mainstream hits (not sad beats, hip hop, pop, R&B?)*, am not the type to sing along i just "bop my head" and take cues from vocals as filler, rhythm... , lounge, ambiance music. Fair amount of classical instruments used i guess but I'll attach my youtube playlist which you may enjoy as well*  supposed to be 540 tracks (200 on head-fi) check out the arabic music if you can find it, am Algerian 

Preferred shell type: i guess smaller bell diameter or apple buds (i found best for comfort), might get those premium heigi donut/full foams too/if my recommendation is somehow the not smooth, archaeic big and hard.

Price range: ~300 usd though am interested to know what superior choices there are if double that.

Thank you so much and enjoy my playlist i made it just for this yesterday.


----------



## furyossa

ian91 said:


> Stop right there! Chuck says we're not allowed to leave the X6 club, and if we do, he wants the Tshirt back.
> 
> 
> 
> Credits to @FranQL


The print of Mr Chuck looks extraordinary. Don't throw this Tshirt away


----------



## baskingshark

ian91 said:


> Stop right there! Chuck says we're not allowed to leave the X6 club, and if we do, he wants the Tshirt back.
> 
> 
> 
> Credits to @FranQL



Haha @RikudouGoku will also kill us if we leave the X6 cult!


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> Haha @RikudouGoku will also kill us if we leave the X6 cult!


I have a hard time believing it is an upgrade to the X6, when I already spent hundreds of dollars trying to find just that....

(no thread on Willsound either.)


----------



## ian91

baskingshark said:


> Haha @RikudouGoku will also kill us if we leave the X6 cult!




If he leaves the club for Willsound though, it's Chuck we will have to deal with...


----------



## RikudouGoku

ian91 said:


> If he leaves the club for Willsound though, it's Chuck we will have to deal with...


Alright, guess not.

"mk2 makes x6 feels more neutral in my opinion.."
"mk2 is good, but too bassy for me, vocals a bit recessed as the effect, and the bass do bleed to the mids a bit."

(from discord)


----------



## ian91

RikudouGoku said:


> Alright, guess not.
> 
> "mk2 makes x6 feels more neutral in my opinion.."
> "mk2 is good, but too bassy for me, vocals a bit recessed as the effect, and the bass do bleed to the mids a bit."
> ...



*Chuck loosens black belt on his Karate Gi and sits back down*


----------



## chinmie

RikudouGoku said:


> Are you pulling my leg or are you serious? Is it really a "true" upgrade to the X6? As in having very similar tonality and timbre but better tech/res?



Never tried the X6 (because my friends here often says it's too similar to recabled/retuned VIdo), but i did sold my Samsara because i think my MKs are simply better in SQ and more suited in tuning for me. 
Keep in mind that my MK (1,2,and 3) are not similar to other because it's slightly retuned by Willy on my request. They do however are using the same drivers as the normal MKs, so it would have similar SQ level.


----------



## RikudouGoku

chinmie said:


> Never tried the X6 (because my friends here often says it's too similar to recabled/retuned VIdo), but i did sold my Samsara because i think my MKs are simply better in SQ and more suited in tuning for me.
> Keep in mind that my MK (1,2,and 3) are not similar to other because it's slightly retuned by Willy on my request. They do however are using the same drivers as the normal MKs, so it would have similar SQ level.


Do they have a similar tonality to the Samsara then?


----------



## furyossa

ian91 said:


> If he leaves the club for Willsound though, it's Chuck we will have to deal with...


That's not good at all. He is like Covid, It's very difficult to get rid of


----------



## RikudouGoku

(credits to @cheebs for the awesome photoshop)


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Aug 1, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> (credits to @cheebs for the awesome photoshop)


Man, this is Chuck we're talking about. That's absolutely IN-SAYIN amounts of power, well in excess of 9000. C'mon, man, that's Walker Texas Ranger...


_Good morning, Sunday morning_​
Enjoying this combo far more than I thought I would. The Monk Lite SPC are surprisingly capable with this kind of rock once the lite full foams (assuming that's what they're called) from the included pack go on. Just enough of a fill in the ears to get some bass and midbass back, but not so much it darkens everything out. That lower bass-to-subbass transition is still anemic, but it's better than foam-less.

And I did try them foam-less last night in bed with some of Justice's _Cross_. Not the kind of music to make a foam-less experience fun, but it was a pretty fun showing regardless. Definitely approve.

Keep in mind I'm just going through random picks in my own collection, not intentionally looking to play to any strengths and just enjoying the ride. It's been fun. I know there's material that shows off better with these sets.


----------



## chinmie

RikudouGoku said:


> Do they have a similar tonality to the Samsara then?



my MK2 is the most similar but less warm than the Samsara, while MK1 have bigger bass quantity (sub and midbass), and the Mk3 is more balanced and have more forward mids


----------



## RikudouGoku

chinmie said:


> my MK2 is the most similar but less warm than the Samsara, while MK1 have bigger bass quantity (sub and midbass), and the Mk3 is more balanced and have more forward mids


Thats the opposite of this review then:
https://aftersoundblog.wordpress.co...n-english-review-mk1-mk2-mk3-mk300-pk16-pk32/

(MK2 bassier than the MK1, MK1 the most balanced and the MK3 the brightest.)


----------



## FranQL (Aug 1, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Down the rabbithole we go!!!



Great response / image !!!!!

It is very good! I've been laughing for a long time !!!!!


----------



## chinmie

RikudouGoku said:


> Thats the opposite of this review then:
> https://aftersoundblog.wordpress.co...n-english-review-mk1-mk2-mk3-mk300-pk16-pk32/
> 
> (MK2 bassier than the MK1, MK1 the most balanced and the MK3 the brightest.)



i know Michael (Aftersound Review), he lives in my area and had audio meet with him. he has a great taste in earphones/headphones and mostly matches with my opinions. I think he's describing the stock MK series, but i don't know which version/batch

as i said earlier, my units are tuned differently, thus that is what I'm describing to you. 
And I've heard friend's MK unit that have the same exact drivers, but differ in tuning, because he (Willy) is capable to do that if requested


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 1, 2021)

chinmie said:


> i know Michael (Aftersound Review), he lives in my area and had audio meet with him. he has a great taste in earphones/headphones and mostly matches with my opinions. I think he's describing the stock MK series, but i don't know which version/batch
> 
> as i said earlier, my units are tuned differently, thus that is what I'm describing to you.
> And I've heard friend's MK unit that have the same exact drivers, but differ in tuning, because he (Willy) is capable to do that if requested


Yes, concur. That is a dated review comparing & discussing older early models from well over three years ago. Willy's original tuning was different plus he tuned by request and often as* @chinmie* intimated.


----------



## furyossa (Aug 1, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> (credits to @cheebs for the awesome photoshop)



Your Anime guy cannot reach this level.
Sorry, but this is the truth. I would think twice if I were you.  Leaving the X6 is not an option


----------



## chinmie

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, concur. That is a dated review comparing & discussing older early models from well over three years ago. Willy's original tuning was different plus he tuned by request and often as* @chinmie* intimated.



Yes, also what most people might not know is that South East Asian earbuds/earphones scene has more DIY approach than chifi ones, which has more "preset product" line up. 

SEA builder experiment a lot and might change their tunings from time to time, but they would disclose them and tell us what the changes are. Prototypes would circulate from one audio meet to the next to gather responses and inputs from users, and (I'm sure you would know) we SEA audio people DO love to MEET

In Chifi scene, when they change something in their product... it's usually not disclosed to the buyer, and usually the first batch would be the better version. of course not many of them do this, as there are many companies that keep their QC in check


----------



## WoodyLuvr

LikeHolborn said:


> Source: low-end samsung tablet, lossless, youtube.
> 
> Listening level and time: 20/40mins at a time, high volume.
> 
> ...



Bell-shaped the only thing that comes to mind close to that desired sound signature; low impedance and high sensitivity; and around USD300 would be the *2020 Ksearphone Temperament 蓝精铃 Bell-Blue (32/33Ω; 107dB/mW; aka "The Smurfs" / "Blue Bell" / "Bell Smurf")*.


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Bell-shaped the only thing that comes to mind close to that desired sound signature; low impedance and high sensitivity; and around USD300 would be the *2020 Ksearphone Temperament 蓝精铃 Bell-Blue (32/33Ω; 107dB/mW; aka "The Smurfs" / "Blue Bell" / "Bell Smurf")*.


Their QC is questionable on them though...


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> Their QC is questionable on them though...


Concur; there is that and I should know... LOL! Just can't think of another small shelled bell type.


----------



## LikeHolborn

I should reiterate, the sound is the number one priority for me, except if it's got crazy impedance and the mids or low midrange get sucked out because i use only a smartphone. But that one what's the other qualities of it (what does it have that i demand and don't), my main detractor is treble that's not recessed compared to everything before it, and is it high res? i mean 300 bucks is alot of money for something like that it should prioritise sound right? Is it as detailed from how forward it is as an m50 or q40 if you've heard one? What's the ball park on sound quality? If it's got qc issues why is it priced so expensively, if it's a smaller company they should take more care and time for each unit 300$. Thanks alot.


----------



## LikeHolborn

RikudouGoku said:


> Their QC is questionable on them though...



Right and left imbalance, sound flaw, unusability, is what i can't tolerate.


----------



## LikeHolborn (Aug 1, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Bell-shaped the only thing that comes to mind close to that desired sound signature; low impedance and high sensitivity; and around USD300 would be the *2020 Ksearphone Temperament 蓝精铃 Bell-Blue (32/33Ω; 107dB/mW; aka "The Smurfs" / "Blue Bell" / "Bell Smurf")*.



Am happy to see a recommendation in that price range cause that means my sound signature but ameliorated sound quality. And it's new too (2020) ..(with a cool nickname)


----------



## emusic13

Current favorite, if not best buds I have
Biofilm Driver


----------



## LikeHolborn (Aug 1, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur; there is that and I should know... LOL! Just can't think of another small shelled bell type.



It is a rare breed. But even popular signature at the same time, apple buds could be that except more excitement and a less indiscriminate treble... just not what head-fi'ers and actually opposite of what they go for. Even my music is as mainstream and relatively safe as the earbud am looking for.. a fundamental question of headphone sound, check my earliest posts in profile for what i have to say about that if interested


----------



## chinmie

LikeHolborn said:


> as an m50



do you mean ATH M50? 
the closest earbuds that I've tried that are similar might be EMX500, Toneking TP16, TY Hi Z 32, but i don't know if they're still available (forgive me if I'm not up to date). 
Willsound MK2 might also fit that M50 sound signature. 

but if you want to have more closer feel to M50 (which is closed back), you might as well go the IEM route


----------



## LikeHolborn

chinmie said:


> do you mean ATH M50?
> the closest earbuds that I've tried that are similar might be EMX500, Toneking TP16, TY Hi Z 32, but i don't know if they're still available (forgive me if I'm not up to date).
> Willsound MK2 might also fit that M50 sound signature.
> 
> but if you want to have more closer feel to M50 (which is closed back), you might as well go the IEM route


Are you sure you don't mean monk for engaging, fun, toe tapping as it is? No mention. I think you might be mistaking a quality am not looking for in the m50 by your view or hear of it 
Closer feel is in the sound signature as i get the benefits of it (not bass). I don't have a fetish for claustrophobic sound especially. Iem's won't and don't do that at all, relatively. Aligns with the logic of how popular it is with head-fi'ers. Your recommendation is whack bro..


----------



## RikudouGoku

LikeHolborn said:


> Right and left imbalance, sound flaw, unusability, is what i can't tolerate.


I believe one of the drivers on @WoodyLuvr´s unit died. And another case where the cable was too short.




LikeHolborn said:


> It is a rare breed. But even popular signature at the same time, apple buds could be that except more excitement and a less indiscriminate treble... just not what head-fi'ers and actually opposite of what they go for. Even my music is as mainstream and relatively safe as the earbud am looking for.. a fundamental question of headphone sound, check my earliest posts in profile for what i have to say about that if interested


Apple buds work as well? Maybe the Yincrow RW-100 would work (dont have it yet...).


----------



## nymz

LikeHolborn said:


> Are you sure you don't mean monk for engaging, fun, toe tapping as it is? No mention. I think you might be mistaking a quality am not looking for in the m50 by your view or hear of it
> Closer feel is in the sound signature as i get the benefits of it (not bass). I don't have a fetish for claustrophobic sound especially. Iem's won't and don't do that at all, relatively. Aligns with the logic of how popular it is with head-fi'ers. Your recommendation is whack bro..



So let me see if I understood you right...

Someone tries to help you after describing a mess and you're straitght out rude?

Damn. Relax.


----------



## FranQL

LikeHolborn said:


> Are you sure you don't mean monk for engaging, fun, toe tapping as it is? No mention. I think you might be mistaking a quality am not looking for in the m50 by your view or hear of it
> Closer feel is in the sound signature as i get the benefits of it (not bass). I don't have a fetish for claustrophobic sound especially. Iem's won't and don't do that at all, relatively. Aligns with the logic of how popular it is with head-fi'ers. Your recommendation is whack bro..


I don't see that Monk recommended you at any time.


----------



## chinmie

well, that's going to be the last time I'll be ever recommend something to him then


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

FranQL said:


> I don't see that Monk recommended you at any time.


Might be that I mentioned them this morning. Not sure, but I think we can just agree that neither of us knows what the other wants. Probably best to let it go for now; at least until @LikeHolborn can better explain what it is they're looking for.

And, speaking of Monks, I threw on Depeche Mode's _101_ (the live album) after that Godsmack album this morning and woo momma that's a good set of buds for that album. Imaging is good enough that you feel in the audience. Pretty cool effect.


----------



## FranQL

chinmie said:


> well, that's going to be the last time I'll be ever recommend something to him then



if you have something to tap with your toes ... feel free to post it.


----------



## LikeHolborn

RikudouGoku said:


> I believe one of the drivers on @WoodyLuvr´s unit died. And another case where the cable was too short.
> 
> 
> 
> Apple buds work as well? Maybe the Yincrow RW-100 would work (dont have it yet...).


Yea that sucks.

Apple buds half in ear i meant, the newer ones, for sound signature.. woodylover atleast had 1 recommendation so i wanted to confirm with him about that signature. He should not take other preferences too literally though, except for sound.


----------



## chinmie

FranQL said:


> if you have something to tap with your toes ... feel free to post it.


 
sure do, but full disclaimer though, people said my recommendation is whack


----------



## WoodyLuvr

chinmie said:


> well, that's going to be the last time I'll be ever recommend something to him then





chinmie said:


> sure do, but full disclaimer though, people said my recommendation is whack


_"I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission. And I want to help you."_


----------



## LikeHolborn

FranQL said:


> I don't see that Monk recommended you at any time.


It ain't, i only got 1 recommendation so far from woody and he was maxing the price range and comfort/sensitivity needs. Not a lackluster option, an exciting one. Please feel free to let it go and recommend also, everyone else can also surmise the same for themselves thank you. I was only interacting with recommendation, if it's like Woody's I'll say what i said, if it's a poor match with my preferences I'll also say so you don't even need to be discouraged and continue your failing on your way down by telling people poor said things about my wants and to pause recommendations if you had better things to still come from you.


----------



## FranQL (Aug 1, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> _"I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission. And I want to help you."_


2001: A Space Odyssey​


----------



## Ronion (Aug 1, 2021)

I’m not sure how this happened but now I almost hear the Car Ear Mimi as a cheaper M2s pro.  When first heard these, I hated them.  They were painful to listen too.  my First listen though was foamless and my second with donuts.  IMO these ones probably need thick foams or double foams as has been suggested.  The soundstage is huge: which was the only nice thing I could say about their sound at first blush.  they’re still bass weight light, but still listenable and for classical piano trios, nothing sounds like it’s missing.  Only rap and hip hop sound too light, but the soundstage on highly produced recordings is awesome.  Through the Little Bear B4x there is definitely a nice synergy.  It loosens up the bass a bit and adds weight And the headstage is still awesome.  My mind is turning a 180 on these buds… I should have put more effort into them when I first got them.
The comfort is also top notch for me.


----------



## FranQL (Aug 1, 2021)

LikeHolborn said:


> It ain't, i only got 1 recommendation so far from woody and he was maxing the price range and comfort/sensitivity needs. Not a lackluster option, an exciting one. Please feel free to let it go and recommend also, everyone else can also surmise the same for themselves thank you. I was only interacting with recommendation, if it's like Woody's I'll say what i said, if it's a poor match with my preferences I'll also say so you don't even need to be discouraged and continue your failing on your way down by telling people poor said things about my wants and to pause recommendations if you had better things to still come from you.



Do not worry, really people who are just trying to "help" selflessly know that they are not going to give them any prizes for the buds you decide to buy. I will try to continue living without recommending anything to you.


----------



## chinmie

WoodyLuvr said:


> _"I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission. And I want to help you."_


 
Just remember not to shut the airlock down, please


----------



## LikeHolborn (Aug 1, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Might be that I mentioned them this morning. Not sure, but I think we can just agree that neither of us knows what the other wants. Probably best to let it go for now; at least until @LikeHolborn can better explain what it is they're looking for.
> 
> And, speaking of Monks, I threw on Depeche Mode's _101_ (the live album) after that Godsmack album this morning and woo momma that's a good set of buds for that album. Imaging is good enough that you feel in the audience. Pretty cool effect.


I know what i want, not that there's been enough quantity/quality to determine that yet. again.. We is looking for that which i specified and already got a recommendation about. (And if you understood or passionate about audio at a decent level you'd have some recommendation, like woody, misery.) Upside down letter of my first name too


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

FranQL said:


> 2001: A Space Odyssey​


Daiiisy, daaaaaaaaaisssyyyyyyyy


LikeHolborn said:


> I know what i want, not that there's been enough quantity/quality to determine that yet. again.. We is looking for that which i specified and already got a recommendation about. (And if you understood or passionate about audio at a decent level you'd have some recommendation, like woody, misery.)


Well shoot I was trying to give you an out and even had a recommendation ready to fire off, but if you're going to have a raccoon in you pants about it, I suppose we can forget it. Maybe it's the language barrier, bud, but you sound an awful lot like a Redditor.

My existence is not to provide you with on-demand services, thank you.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Aug 1, 2021)

nymz said:


> You're right. I need to up my standards and quality. Thanks for the enlightment.
> 
> In fact, I just did it. When I pressed the ignore and the report button. There's no need for me to see stuff like your posts. It will only decrease my quality of life.
> 
> Cya later, bud. GL on reddit.


Overlapping frameworks. Nice.

Is HAL online yet? These life support systems won't support themselves.

Maybe I missed it, by the way, but has anybody done a breakdown on the different tips in the VE packs? I'm sure the idea is just "see what happens," but would be nice to have that info as a resource.


----------



## FranQL

come on .... go .... you have won me, one day is a day:

buy yincrow X6


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Aug 1, 2021)

Oh I'm well aware we've been quoting 2001 for several posts now. Love that movie (my friends might say a little _too _much) 

Yeah, there's some weird synchronicity at play. I'm just going to keep throwing musical recommendations out there.

This one's super fun. It's like Mastodon with a twist. Rawk away the frustration 



_Grorr - Ddulden's Last Flight_​


----------



## LikeHolborn (Aug 1, 2021)

FranQL said:


> come on .... go .... you have won me, one day is a day:
> 
> buy yincrow X6


Finally. 


And it fits my sound preference?


----------



## FranQL

LikeHolborn said:


> And it fits my sound preference?



It's so good that your sound preferences will adapt to it.


----------



## ian91

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Oh I'm well aware we've been quoting 2001 for several posts now. Love that movie (my friends might say a little _too _much)
> 
> Yeah, there's some weird synchronicity at play. I'm just going to keep throwing musical recommendations out there.
> 
> ...



Thanks for music, very cool! 

These past few pages have been a struggle...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

ian91 said:


> Thanks for music, very cool!
> 
> These past few pages have been a struggle...


More than willing to keep it coming as well if that's what it takes. I mean that's what we do with all this gear, right? In the end, it's about the music.

Swapped over to the M2s Pro; Grorr album became even more fun; like stepping out of the studio and into an arena. Good ol' foamovers are working wonders for that set, but I am not looking forward to pulling all that stuff off when the new drivers arrived. Pretty sure something's going to end up torn.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Oh well, time to give the X6 a promotion, from A+ to S.




This reflects my top 5 buds right now a lot better.


----------



## Ronion

I’m just testing to see if this will work.  This is what I fell asleep to last night.  Pretty cool arrangements of times pieces played very well to say the least.  The Little Bear loves this stuff.

https://app.idagio.com/recordings/21259381


miserybeforethemusic said:


> Appreciate what you do. Always available for side chats if you need to vent about that. Considering my wife worked ICU over the past couple years, I'm familiar with some of what you're going through.


Thanks brother.  I appreciate that.  For the 10 busiest months, I went back and forth from the CCU to the COVID ward, sometimes following the same set of patients if they’d decline or improve.  I’m sort of proud of the fact that I had the first pandemic patient to survive ECMO.  Things were wild back then and the fear was real.  The patient’s family also had it and it was very mild for them.  I was sleepless and praying.  “There are no atheists in foxholes”.   I’m hoping the worst of it is over, but still some other coworkers have gotten sick in spite of vaccination.  None hospitalized though.  Stay safe out there(all of you)!  For seemingly random people, this stuff is a nightmare.  For others: no big deal.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Ronion said:


> I’m just testing to see if this will work.  This is what I fell asleep to last night.  Pretty cool arrangements of times pieces played very well to say the least.  The Little Bear loves this stuff.
> 
> https://app.idagio.com/recordings/21259381
> 
> Thanks brother.  I appreciate that.  For the 10 busiest months, I went back and forth from the CCU to the COVID ward, sometimes following the same set of patients if they’d decline or improve.  I’m sort of proud of the fact that I had the first pandemic patient to survive ECMO.  Things were wild back then and the fear was real.  The patient’s family also had it and it was very mild for them.  I was sleepless and praying.  “There are no atheists in foxholes”.   I’m hoping the worst of it is over, but still some other coworkers have gotten sick in spite of vaccination.  None hospitalized though.  Stay safe out there(all of you)!  For seemingly random people, this stuff is a nightmare.  For others: no big deal.


Yep, those cleaning protocols are going to continue to be the make/break for transmissability. Remember what that one front-line worker said in Wuhan eeeeearly on in this whole ordeal: every one of them that ended up sick could pin-point when they were complacent with PPE, donning/doffing, or cleaning protocols. Even applies outside of the hospital; that part of my brain that will never forget aseptic gowning procedures goes crazy when I see how lazy people are with their masks and keeping track of what they touch. Reminds me that the gentleman who told everybody how important it was to just wash their hands during the Spanish flu was more or less considered a conspiracy theorist. But I digress...

If you got a patient off ECMO, I salute you; thought for a good while that served as little more than a cash cow for the guys who make 'em and permanent life support for those who ended up in it. Man, that machine takes some effort to run, so I tip my hat to you for having a patient recover from ECMO at all.

No atheists in foxholes, indeed. There's a lot of parallels between what some of my deployed shipmates/soldier friends have overcome/are overcoming and what the nursing community has endured over the past year (not even touching the bureaucracy aspect...enjoy your free coffee, pizza, and donuts). Unironically, I say thank you for your service.

Found this talented one-man outfit on Bandcamp and figured I'd share. This album's themes really seem to hit home right now. Well worth the purchase; even got a response from the artist themselves thanking me for the buy. Fair warning, might need something a bit more upbeat to follow this one. It's pretty raw.


_Breaths - Lined In Silver_​


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

_Daniel Tompkins - Castles_​Everybody good? Got quiet in here. Figured I'd keep the introspective motif going with a little progressive pop...felt like a pretty solid inaugural album for the 3.5mm Traceless. It definitely takes advantage of that extra power from the Monolith THX 788, but still a bit bass-light to really enjoy this kinda stuff. It's a _very _mid-focused set of earbuds. However, the snare decay I'm hearing on _Cinders_ is fantastic; fantastic snap.

And I'm getting better with my foam skills for sure. Only took me about a minute this time around with the included thick foams. Confidence is building!


----------



## assassin10000

miserybeforethemusic said:


> And I'm getting better with my foam skills for sure. Only took me about a minute this time around with the included thick foams. Confidence is building!​


Have you started doing the pre-install 6-way foam stretch?

For extra points pick up a small (4-5") set of hemostats.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

assassin10000 said:


> Have you started doing the pre-install 6-way foam stretch?
> 
> For extra points pick up a small (4-5") set of hemostats.


Nope. Don't hydrate them, either. My buds are probably going to get cramps 

I just grab a ballpoint pen from the desk and run it around the inside perimeter to stretch that inner fold out a bit. From there, I can usually get one corner to wrap around the back of one side of the earbud and I can work the rest around from there. For a while, I tried to flip the outer foam around the bud, but I'm too much of a butterfingers to make it work that way. Might revisit that technique in the future, though.

But I do happen to know exactly where the wife keeps her hemostats. Might be worth giving a go. Thanks for the rec!


----------



## assassin10000

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Nope. Don't hydrate them, either. My buds are probably going to get cramps
> 
> I just grab a ballpoint pen from the desk and run it around the inside perimeter to stretch that inner fold out a bit. From there, I can usually get one corner to wrap around the back of one side of the earbud and I can work the rest around from there. For a while, I tried to flip the outer foam around the bud, but I'm too much of a butterfingers to make it work that way. Might revisit that technique in the future, though.
> 
> But I do happen to know exactly where the wife keeps her hemostats. Might be worth giving a go. Thanks for the rec!


Yeah, pre-stretch helps a lot. After I can get usually pick the edge of the foam up and get it over one side, then just work them on from there.

I only use the hemostats when I double foam something. Lets me pick up and adjust the outer foam position (usually a donut foam).


----------



## wskl

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Maybe I missed it, by the way, but has anybody done a breakdown on the different tips in the VE packs? I'm sure the idea is just "see what happens," but would be nice to have that info as a resource.



WoodyLuvy's useful post about foams/cushions
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3513#post-16207702

For the VE ex-pack, there are 3 types of foams:

1. thin porous foams - these will alter the sound the least
2. regular foam - more denser, if you have earbud which is bright or analytical or thin, you can try these, they may add a bit more body and fullness
3. donut foams - you keep the bass but the hole will allow the mids/treble to breathe

How to distiniguish (1) and (2), if you hold the foams against the window during daylight, you can clearly see that foam #1 is more see-through.  For my ears, the porous foams also have a different feel, I think they have more of a spongy texture.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

assassin10000 said:


> Yeah, pre-stretch helps a lot. After I can get usually pick the edge of the foam up and get it over one side, then just work them on from there.
> 
> I only use the hemostats when I double foam something. Lets me pick up and adjust the outer foam position (usually a donut foam).


Sounds like a similar technique to threading sutures. Clever thinking.


_Chick Corea - The Musician_

Definitely shows off the technical abilities of the Traceless a bit more. Jazz lovers, take note. This ain't bad...


wskl said:


> WoodyLuvy's useful post about foams/cushions
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3513#post-16207702
> 
> For the VE ex-pack, there are 3 types of foams:
> ...


Perfect! Thanks a bunch


----------



## baskingshark

Ronion said:


> I’m just testing to see if this will work.  This is what I fell asleep to last night.  Pretty cool arrangements of times pieces played very well to say the least.  The Little Bear loves this stuff.
> 
> https://app.idagio.com/recordings/21259381
> 
> Thanks brother.  I appreciate that.  For the 10 busiest months, I went back and forth from the CCU to the COVID ward, sometimes following the same set of patients if they’d decline or improve.  I’m sort of proud of the fact that I had the first pandemic patient to survive ECMO.  Things were wild back then and the fear was real.  The patient’s family also had it and it was very mild for them.  I was sleepless and praying.  “There are no atheists in foxholes”.   I’m hoping the worst of it is over, but still some other coworkers have gotten sick in spite of vaccination.  None hospitalized though.  Stay safe out there(all of you)!  For seemingly random people, this stuff is a nightmare.  For others: no big deal.



Stay safe friend!

I also work in health care and the past few months have been quite crazy due to covid. One of our most respected and esteemed members here, who was a healthcare worker (HungryPanda), unfortunately lost his life to covid a few months back, very sad news for all of us and a big loss to this hobby. So please take care.

I used to bring my IEMs and earbuds to the hospital where I work to listen during lunch hours, but the past few months, I've left my gear at home. I mainly use wired connections and I see covid or suspected covid cases not unfrequently. I'm paranoid the cables can trap some viruses (formite) at the workplace, so it isn't fun to wipe down the cables and IEMs, or worse still, bring covid back home. Wireless stuff is an option, but they don't sound as good as wired sources haha, so sometimes once you have heard something, it is not easy to unhear it and step back down.


----------



## gordonli (Jul 27, 2022)

deleted


----------



## jao29

RikudouGoku said:


> Thats the opposite of this review then:
> https://aftersoundblog.wordpress.co...n-english-review-mk1-mk2-mk3-mk300-pk16-pk32/
> 
> (MK2 bassier than the MK1, MK1 the most balanced and the MK3 the brightest.)


Hmmm,. My Willsounds came with this case. So maybe my Willsounds are of different tuning than the ones in this review? Idk. 😅 But yeah, I like the mkii better than the X6. I still do love the X6 though and they’re no slouch either.


----------



## jao29

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, concur. That is a dated review comparing & discussing older early models from well over three years ago. Willy's original tuning was different plus he tuned by request and often as* @chinmie* intimated.


Oh. So I think maybe this explains it. Haha. I find the Willsound mkii have better detail retrieval than the X6. But since they are warm sounding earbuds they won’t have the same detail retrieval like the Viridis and the Onmyoji. But for fans of warm sounding earbuds , I highly recommend the both the X6 and the mkii’s.


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> Stay safe friend!
> 
> I also work in health care and the past few months have been quite crazy due to covid. One of our most respected and esteemed members here, who was a healthcare worker (HungryPanda), unfortunately lost his life to covid a few months back, very sad news for all of us and a big loss to this hobby. So please take care.
> 
> I used to bring my IEMs and earbuds to the hospital where I work to listen during lunch hours, but the past few months, I've left my gear at home. I mainly use wired connections and I see covid or suspected covid cases not unfrequently. I'm paranoid the cables can trap some viruses (formite) at the workplace, so it isn't fun to wipe down the cables and IEMs, or worse still, bring covid back home. Wireless stuff is an option, but they don't sound as good as wired sources haha, so sometimes once you have heard something, it is not easy to unhear it and step back down.


I too thank all those that have been considered front-liners (and even some that don't get that credit, but are there nonetheless). For myself, I have been considered a front-liner by some, but absolutely nothing compared to what most have had to endure. During the pandemic I have been tasked with programming and fixing building automation/temperature controls for isolation rooms. 

From existing wings in hospitals, to other hospitals that either have converted, or built whole new wings, I have simply been around it, and those that have had it in these rooms. But, I have not had to deal with being close to, or seeing suffering on the same level that others have. But my experience affords me the knowledge that gives me appreciation for those that ARE a lot closer than myself.


gordonli said:


> Hi all! Wonder if I could get your kind help for an earphone recommendation here.
> 
> I love the sound of the Nicehck Traceless w/out foams (w/ mic). In earphones I also own Auglamour RX-1 (which I also like w/ foams), Moondrop Nameless, Yincrow X6, Headroom MS16, Qian39, VE Monk...yea budget stuff.
> 
> I'd like better earbuds and my guess is I would also like the Nicehck DIY MX500 and EBX21, and the Moondrop Chaconne. Does that sound right and do you have any other recommendations? Thanks


Read this and fill this form:

_*source* (using a DAC/AMP/DAP/PC/smartphone/streamer; audio file type including bit & sample rate)_
_*preferred connection* (termination type e.g. 3.5SE/4.4TRRS/2.5mm; single-end vs balanced; mic/no mic)_
_*listening level & time* (volume, and for how long?)_
_*listening environment* (mobile/office desk/home desktop/listening room)_
_*preferred sound signature* (bright; flat/neutral; balanced/natural/smooth; dark/warm; extra bass/bassy; L/U/V-shaped)_
_*preferred genre* (rock, heavy metal, pop, classical, OST, hip-hop, R&B, Korean-Pop, EDM, podcasts, audiobooks, etc.)_
_*preferred shell type* (depends on your ears and personal comfort; please see *here*)_
_*preferred brand* (only applicable if asking for a model recommendation within a single brand)_
_*price range *(probably the most important; what are you willing/looking to spend?)_


----------



## dissociativity (Aug 1, 2021)

I'm addicted to the HE150 Pro, it's just the most overall pleasant earbud to listen to that I've heard except maybe my 1more E1008 which I baby, which is a bit similar, but the peizo offers a very distinct sparkle without any siblance I've heard nowhere else, I just baby it since I don't feel confident replacing the cable if it breaks!

I've had the smabat m2 pro with gold 150 ohm driver (very bright, made folk punk/alt rock too sibalent, even if it's the most technical detail I've heard from an earbud, nicehck mx500 diy (quite nice overall, excellent for the price),
qian69 (a previous favorite), qian39 (I need to order new ones, can't remember what they were like),
nicehck b40 (my favorite for relaxed listening, podcasts, youtube, anything with a chance of badly recorded and sibalent vocals, currently missing mine, it was my favorite nicehck and I'm sad it's disonctinued, the pk shell is my favorite),
monk plus (mediocre, overrated, worst cable in any earbud I've listened to),
smabat m0 with it's stock and the titanium dome 40 ohm driver (still not sure about this one, I like the shell comfort and DIY fun, but may need to play with tuning more, it has big potential)
It's odd, it seems I enjoy a slightly dark tonality in earbuds, but prefer neutral-bright in iems, both sound close in my opinion (dark earbud vs neutral-bright iem)

Any PK shell recommendations? I've of course got to get the Yincrow X6 given everyone's recommendations, the earpod style RW-100 is pleasant btw, I didn't listen to it a lot as it was a gift to a friend who prefers that style, but it was lovely and warm from what I did hear!

I will add, once more to rant about the 1more E1008, I think due to the treble sorcery, it has immense treble clarity with no distortion even at higher volumes, and treble heavy tracks that also have bass at the same time due to treble, and has much more subbass extension than any other earbud I've heard, period, it's an overall dark tonality, and bass can give me a headache, but that airy spacious open backed headphone feel is amazing.
I find the HE150 Pro to be the best /overall/ earbud I've listened to, even if it's bass doesn't extend as far, it's a less dark tonality, closer to the Nicehck B40, only with much more clarity and detail, the technical ability of the E1008 feels higher due to that unique piezo, but the dark tuning makes it a very warm earbud with a lot of treble extension, with no siblance, a basshead earbud that doesn't compromise in quality anywhere else, so long as one doesn't mind the tonality.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dissociativity said:


> I'm addicted to the HE150 Pro, it's just the most overall pleasant earbud to listen to that I've heard except maybe my 1more E1008 which I baby, which is a bit similar, but the peizo offers a very distinct sparkle without any siblance I've heard nowhere else, I just baby it since I don't feel confident replacing the cable if it breaks!
> 
> I've had the smabat m2 pro with gold 150 ohm driver (very bright, made folk punk/alt rock too sibalent, even if it's the most technical detail I've heard from an earbud, nicehck mx500 diy (quite nice overall, excellent for the price),
> qian69 (a previous favorite), qian39 (I need to order new ones, can't remember what they were like),
> ...


I've had my eye on these:

https://www.rholupat.com/willsound-buds/pk32-gendhis.html

Very pleasantly surprised that Smabat reached out to me via PM to keep a line open outside of AE. Even if it's just a newsletter request, it's nice to see them reach out personally.

Had a nice convo with whatever rep I was talking to. Dropped a hint to them about our affection for the M2s Pro and invited them on in, so we'll see if they happen to drop by!


----------



## MelodyMood (Aug 2, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Your ending statement above reeks of novice arrogance and ignorance... along with your hypocritical "_USB-C is non-audiophile_" mantra while you incessantly inquire on sub $10 earbuds that come with mics... the irony!
> 
> Humble?! Humble individuals rarely, if ever, lay-down blanket statements such as yours. Simple?! Simple person's posts would not continually prove to be so awkward to deal with (many of your early posts were very complicated to say the least). I fear that you are far more opinionated, stubborn, and lazy than you realize as all your posts in this here thread are testament to:
> 
> ...



Well, if you do not consider my work related with IT, does not mean that I am doing anything else. And how reply with Quote and Replying to the Post is different? If someone is replying to only one post? And my work is not to find the best way to Reply to the post or find out how Head-Fi site is built so I can suggest them better Architecture and Design to use.  



WoodyLuvr said:


> In this case, IT Professional does not equate well to Audio Science Engineer.


I did not say I am Sound Engineer or so? But it is ot Rocket science to know why USB C Exist. 


WoodyLuvr said:


> Whether it be a 3.5mm jack or a USB-C port offering analog audio,  a connection is a connection, just like the rest of an electronic circuit which is a combination of connections, bridges, point-to-points, etc. Nothing magical happens in a 3.5mm jack that does not happen in an analog audio output USB-C port. This is not super-sophisticated electronics happening here either. What magical "stable" connection circuitry do you think is happening in your smartphone that doesn't happen in a USB-C port?
> 
> USB-C is heavily used in consumer DACs and electronics and for good reason; it works flawlessly (if implemented correctly and designed by a skilled engineer).
> 
> ...


Then do you have any reason to mention why there are hardly any USB C Type Earphones in the market? Phone Companies are still more interested in selling USB C to 3.5mm Connector which you will lose every now and then but not interested in making USB C Type earphone? UCB C is primarily made for Speed and Data Transfer, if someone is using it for Music does not make it ideal for Music. Sound itself is a continuous wave; it is an analog signal.

These Companies just want to sell their Bluetooth Headsets and UCB C to 3.5mm Connectors. There is no other reason for removing 3.5mm from the Phone. I am yet to see a phone which is 3.5mm or less thick.   



WoodyLuvr said:


> Huh?!
> 
> *@miserybeforethemusic *post was not a reflection of the USB-C cable termination but rather the known limitations of the sub US$1 drivers that are used in the Traceless.
> 
> I have compared both the 3.5SE and USB-C terminated NiceHCK Traceless and they sound exactly the same. For a sub US$10 earbud they are fantastic but do lack in many areas again due to the drivers used and not because of the terminations employed.


----------



## chinmie

Ronion said:


> I’m just testing to see if this will work.  This is what I fell asleep to last night.  Pretty cool arrangements of times pieces played very well to say the least.  The Little Bear loves this stuff.
> 
> https://app.idagio.com/recordings/21259381
> 
> Thanks brother.  I appreciate that.  For the 10 busiest months, I went back and forth from the CCU to the COVID ward, sometimes following the same set of patients if they’d decline or improve.  I’m sort of proud of the fact that I had the first pandemic patient to survive ECMO.  Things were wild back then and the fear was real.  The patient’s family also had it and it was very mild for them.  I was sleepless and praying.  “There are no atheists in foxholes”.   I’m hoping the worst of it is over, but still some other coworkers have gotten sick in spite of vaccination.  None hospitalized though.  Stay safe out there(all of you)!  For seemingly random people, this stuff is a nightmare.  For others: no big deal.





baskingshark said:


> Stay safe friend!
> 
> I also work in health care and the past few months have been quite crazy due to covid. One of our most respected and esteemed members here, who was a healthcare worker (HungryPanda), unfortunately lost his life to covid a few months back, very sad news for all of us and a big loss to this hobby. So please take care.
> 
> I used to bring my IEMs and earbuds to the hospital where I work to listen during lunch hours, but the past few months, I've left my gear at home. I mainly use wired connections and I see covid or suspected covid cases not unfrequently. I'm paranoid the cables can trap some viruses (formite) at the workplace, so it isn't fun to wipe down the cables and IEMs, or worse still, bring covid back home. Wireless stuff is an option, but they don't sound as good as wired sources haha, so sometimes once you have heard something, it is not easy to unhear it and step back down.



you guys stay healthy and safe. my wife is an ophthalmologist in an eye hospital, and though she is in a somewhat relatively safer compared to others in general hospitals or even to those in covid-designated hospitals, i still fell a bit wary every time she goes to work..


----------



## chinmie

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I just grab a ballpoint pen from the desk and run it around the inside perimeter to stretch that inner fold out a bit.



if you don't have a pen around, i usually strech new earbud foams by putting them on my pinky fingers like tiny socks. the thumb can help to pinch the lip of the opening


----------



## MelodyMood

Ronion said:


> I’d get the Earbuds Anonymous Buds then.  Earbuds won’t get you bass impact though like those larger drivers will.  I’d pretty much bet that they’ll have better clarity than those Yamaha do, but I cannot say for sure having never heard the Yammy.  They certainly compete with far more expensive over ear cans though that are renowned for their clarity.  if you do a search, you can find the code to get them for $25USD from Penon(also good shipping and customer service).
> 
> oh, but no mic….


I ordered TP16 from Penon Audio in past. I basically want to have good Clarity with Warmness and bit of Sub-Bass to feel too. Not sure if SMABAT or any other earbud can provide that. But I agree that Headphone sound are different and Earbud may not be able to come close to that at all.



miserybeforethemusic said:


> X6 doesn't have subbass imo. The M2s has come the closest of the bunch, but it needs power (and volume) to get there.
> 
> Regarding the plug, any MMCX cable would work for the Smabat. I'm sure there's plenty of well-built MMCX cables with an in-built mic.
> 
> ...


Yeah. I want little bit of Sub Bass to feel too with Warm Sounding earbuds. But you mentioned that there is no Sub Bass in SMABAT M0 or any other earbuds? Right?


----------



## MelodyMood (Aug 2, 2021)

jao29 said:


> Decided to score my recent earbuds purchases from last year up to this year. 😃 Also, I’ll score my earbuds that I owned throughout the years. My sources are an Ipod Touch 7th gen 256gb and Ak Kann Alpha set to medium gain. My files are at mp3 320 and 256 aac:
> 
> 1.)Smabat M2 Pro second filter installed(not the M2s Pro) 6/10- weird timbre as I said before and the positioning of the mids and highs are off.
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing your view. From the above list, I have only Monk Plus and FiiO EM3 which are good but this is my 3rd Monk Plus as rest two did not last and now this is also broken from the plug but it still works. I  need to find out how to change the plug so it will be fine again.

Also, for Snow Lotus 1.0, do you think it has better sound quality than Monk + and little bit of more bass or sub-bass too? Headroom MS16 is suggested by someone else too but I am afraid that its open back will leak the sound too much and everyone know what I am listening or what someone else is saying if I use it for phone call.

  Cat Ear Audio Mimi looks good but it has not Mic so I did not consider Rest most of the ones you mentioned are too expensive for my budget.


----------



## wskl

For those interested in the Astrotec Lyra Mini, someone has written a review.
https://audiophilian-reviews.blogspot.com/2021/08/astrotec-lyra-mini-mini-looking-big.html


----------



## jao29

MelodyMood said:


> Thanks for sharing your view. From the above list, I have only Monk Plus and FiiO EM3 which are good but this is my 3rd Monk Plus as rest two did not last and now this is also broken from the plug but it still works. I  need to find out how to change the plug so it will be fine again.
> 
> Also, for Snow Lotus 1.0, do you think it has better sound quality than Monk + and little bit of more bass or sub-bass too? Headroom MS16 is suggested by someone else too but I am afraid that its open back will leak the sound too much and everyone know what I am listening or what someone else is saying if I use it for phone call.
> 
> Cat Ear Audio Mimi looks good but it has not Mic so I did not consider Rest most of the ones you mentioned are too expensive for my budget.


Welcome! I’m not an expert with regards to sound quality so do take my recommendations with a grain of salt. Anyways, the Snow Lotus 1.0 has better bass than the monk plus, not because of the quantity but because of quality. It’s bass is much more cleaner and doesn’t bleed into the mids like the monk plus. However, the monk plus has more sparkle in the highs as opposed to the Snow Lotus. I like the Snow Lotus a bit better because of that cleaner mids. While the monk plus has the more forward highs.

The Ms16 by design can leak a bit of sound because of it’s open back nature but I listen to low to moderate volume levels so I can’t really comment if the ms16 does leak sound or not. At least they’re not as bad as something like Grado’s haha.


----------



## 40760

wskl said:


> For those interested in the Astrotec Lyra Mini, someone has written a review.
> https://audiophilian-reviews.blogspot.com/2021/08/astrotec-lyra-mini-mini-looking-big.html



They look really beautiful. Didn't know their shells are translucent...


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 2, 2021)

palestofwhite said:


> They look really beautiful. Didn't know their shells are translucent...


Plus they use an ultra low-profile 3.5mm gold plated metal plug as well. The design is very pleasant to look at.


----------



## nymz

Wow. Strong looks it is on this one. Yoda aproves.


----------



## Ronion

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Yep, those cleaning protocols are going to continue to be the make/break for transmissability. Remember what that one front-line worker said in Wuhan eeeeearly on in this whole ordeal: every one of them that ended up sick could pin-point when they were complacent with PPE, donning/doffing, or cleaning protocols. Even applies outside of the hospital; that part of my brain that will never forget aseptic gowning procedures goes crazy when I see how lazy people are with their masks and keeping track of what they touch. Reminds me that the gentleman who told everybody how important it was to just wash their hands during the Spanish flu was more or less considered a conspiracy theorist. But I digress...
> 
> If you got a patient off ECMO, I salute you; thought for a good while that served as little more than a cash cow for the guys who make 'em and permanent life support for those who ended up in it. Man, that machine takes some effort to run, so I tip my hat to you for having a patient recover from ECMO at all.
> 
> ...





baskingshark said:


> Stay safe friend!
> 
> I also work in health care and the past few months have been quite crazy due to covid. One of our most respected and esteemed members here, who was a healthcare worker (HungryPanda), unfortunately lost his life to covid a few months back, very sad news for all of us and a big loss to this hobby. So please take care.
> 
> I used to bring my IEMs and earbuds to the hospital where I work to listen during lunch hours, but the past few months, I've left my gear at home. I mainly use wired connections and I see covid or suspected covid cases not unfrequently. I'm paranoid the cables can trap some viruses (formite) at the workplace, so it isn't fun to wipe down the cables and IEMs, or worse still, bring covid back home. Wireless stuff is an option, but they don't sound as good as wired sources haha, so sometimes once you have heard something, it is not easy to unhear it and step back down.





samandhi said:


> I too thank all those that have been considered front-liners (and even some that don't get that credit, but are there nonetheless). For myself, I have been considered a front-liner by some, but absolutely nothing compared to what most have had to endure. During the pandemic I have been tasked with programming and fixing building automation/temperature controls for isolation rooms.
> 
> From existing wings in hospitals, to other hospitals that either have converted, or built whole new wings, I have simply been around it, and those that have had it in these rooms. But, I have not had to deal with being close to, or seeing suffering on the same level that others have. But my experience affords me the knowledge that gives me appreciation for those that ARE a lot closer than myself.
> 
> ...


Thank you guys so much!  @miserybeforethemusic, I have had that same sentiment about ECMO.  We have some disparaging remarks about it lol.  Administrators have done some pretty horrendous things during this whole struggle.  The fat cats are so good at seizing opportunities.  FWIW, I’ve had 3 of those ‘bunny suits’ rip on me and one while doing chest compressions during a cardiac arrest(sometimes QC isn’t the best from some manufacturers, but times were desperate and choices were limited).  That was just a week after a coworker/friend for 10years died in our unit (just 1 of 3 we coded that shift).  Toughest code I’ve ever been in.  I’ve run my house like an operating theater for so long.  Fatigue has certainly set in And news of these new variants is disheartening.  I’m so glad I found this thread and this group of people.   Came at the right time.  Earbuds have strangely brought me a lot of joy.  Thank you guys for all your contributions on many levels.  Stay safe.  Don’t let your guard down yet, and I’m so sorry for your loss.  That’s upsetting to hear.  Stay strong.


wskl said:


> For those interested in the Astrotec Lyra Mini, someone has written a review.
> https://audiophilian-reviews.blogspot.com/2021/08/astrotec-lyra-mini-mini-looking-big.html


Those look awesome!  I swear my wife has got the divorce lawyer on speed dial ha ha.


----------



## Ronion

Look like a high end Cat Ear Mimi to me.  I can’t believe how much my opinion has changed on these.


----------



## furyossa (Aug 2, 2021)

jao29 said:


> Oh. So I think maybe this explains it. Haha. *I find the Willsound mkii have better detail retrieval than the X6*. But since they are warm sounding earbuds they won’t have the same detail retrieval like the Viridis and the Onmyoji. But for fans of warm sounding earbuds , I highly recommend the both the X6 and the mkii’s.


Be careful what you are saying about X6, Mr Chuck follows this thread as well


----------



## furyossa

dissociativity said:


> *I'm addicted to the HE150 Pro*, it's just the most overall pleasant earbud to listen to that I've heard except maybe my 1more E1008 which I baby, which is a bit similar, but the peizo offers a very distinct sparkle without any siblance I've heard nowhere else, I just baby it since I don't feel confident replacing the cable if it breaks!
> 
> I've had the smabat m2 pro with gold 150 ohm driver (very bright, made folk punk/alt rock too sibalent, even if it's the most technical detail I've heard from an earbud, nicehck mx500 diy (quite nice overall, excellent for the price),
> qian69 (a previous favorite), qian39 (I need to order new ones, can't remember what they were like),
> ...


I will not go that far, but yes, HE150 Pro is very addictive pair of buds, but I like OG HE150 (MX500 version) more. I broke mine trying to open them to change the cable 
but I managed to convert HE150Pro in HE150+, and now I have best of both worlds


----------



## RikudouGoku

(teaser for whats coming)


----------



## RikudouGoku (Aug 2, 2021)

Spoiler: Faaeal Iris 2.0

















Spoiler: Faaeal Iris Ancestor

















Spoiler: Faaeal Iris CE Gray

















Spoiler: K´s LBBS (Bell-LBS)























Spoiler: Yincrow RW-100


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

_Happy Monday_, y'all! Start strong, stay strong. Find that power track if you need to 


_Superchick - Reinvention_
_AKA the daughter's favorite_​The current rotation's featured up there, too. Still have the 3.5mm Traceless on the desktop amp burning in; they got a pretty heavy workout from whatever Roon Radio decided to throw on after that Chick Corea album. Still very mid-focused, but I don't mind it as much.



RikudouGoku said:


> Faaeal Iris 2.0
> Faaeal Iris Ancestor
> Faaeal Iris CE Gray
> K´s LBBS (Bell-LBS)
> Yincrow RW-100


Nice! That'll keep you busy for a while. Curious what the differences are between the Iris 2.0 and Snow Lotus 1.0.



palestofwhite said:


> These people speak as though we owe them a living. The name calling and playing of the "race" card was really the final straw for me.


It gives me insight to the personality on the other side of that keyboard, at least. Perhaps they're going through something and this is how they choose to process it. Can only hope they find peace.



LikeHolborn said:


> For a short reply, you're wrong. Only review you should be concerned with is my interaction and rights here using logic, even according to rules. You're still (beside whack) unfair, arrogant and in general exact opposite of what you're implying to be or contributed with my interactions, and if that's all the good human traits you exhibited (though misplaced, nagging and false) i wouldn't want to know what's it's like for the people subjected to and live with you.


God bless your heart.


----------



## samandhi (Aug 2, 2021)

On another note, I have discovered that the cable I was using for my M2S Pro was what was causing the shouty(ness) that I was hearing. I put the stock cable back on, and I no longer had that. I still need to get another cable, because the stock cable DOES make the overall sound tinny. Very interesting how much of a change different cables make on these. I think I noticed more of a change going between these two cables on the M2S Pro than I did cable rolling on my AS T800 (which I thought was a pretty large difference even then).

Edit: Looks like the Man hit the censor button on me... LOL


----------



## RikudouGoku

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Nice! That'll keep you busy for a while. Curious what the differences are between the Iris 2.0 and Snow Lotus 1.0.


Yeah, I will definitely be busy (I also got the Denon D1100 a few days ago lol). 

Only got the SL 2.5mm balanced.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Faaeal Iris 2.0:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


All photos are great but can you at least use smaller size or thumbnails because this is a bit too "heavy"


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> All photos are great but can you at least use smaller size or thumbnails because this is a bit too "heavy"


Fixed


----------



## ian91

RikudouGoku said:


> Fixed


 Nice pictures! 

Iris 2.0 was quite a nice bud to my ears, easy to listen to but didn't wow me  Look forward to your impressions when you get round to it.


----------



## chinmie

MS16 in the mail scheduled for tomorrow, let see if it fits my preference


----------



## RikudouGoku

ian91 said:


> Nice pictures!
> 
> Iris 2.0 was quite a nice bud to my ears, easy to listen to but didn't wow me  Look forward to your impressions when you get round to it.


I heard the QC on the Faaeal stuff is pretty bad. So hope they arent lemons.


...wonder if I can graph the RW-100 with my IEC711....


----------



## ian91

RikudouGoku said:


> I heard the QC on the Faaeal stuff is pretty bad. So hope they arent lemons.
> 
> 
> ...wonder if I can graph the RW-100 with my IEC711....



I've only brought two Faaeal products and both sounded OK to me. I guess n=2, isn't much to go on though.


----------



## Alteria (Oct 4, 2021)

Finally got the FENGRU DIY EMX500 and it is actually the same as the NiceHCK DIY MX500. The soundstage is not as big and less detailed on the FENGRU. Plugged in both to the same PC and listened to some songs with the same foam - on the left ear using the FENGRU while the right is the NiceHCK (left side not working). The difference is the pouch it comes with and slightly different look for the audio jack.

Thank you so much for your reviews! It helped a lot @RikudouGoku ヾ(•ω•`)o

My personal preference in order with the stuff I have:

1) Yincrow X6/NiceHCK DIY MX500
2) NiceHCK Traceless
3) FAAEAL Iris CE






FENGRU DIY EMX500 (Left)  | NiceHCK DIY MX500 (Right)


----------



## RikudouGoku

Faaeal impressions:

Faaeal Iris 2.0: Warm-neutral, very well-tuned with impressive tech. Guaranteed to review this one. Preliminary rank A+

Faaeal Iris Ancestor: Bass-boosted neutral (a bit bassier than the 2.0), very well-tuned, it is a warmer Iris CE white and less fatigue but similar tech. Also, warmer than the 2.0 but worse tech. Preliminary rank A

Faaeal Iris CE Grey: Neutral, warmer than the white version but with better timbre, tech is similar. Preliminary rank A-

(Iris ranking, preliminary) 2.0 > Ancestor > CE grey > CE White


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 2, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> This one's super fun. It's like Mastodon with a twist. Rawk away the frustration
> 
> 
> _Grorr - Ddulden's Last Flight_​


What an absolutely and most amazingly unique piece of music (regarding the first track 01 - Ddulden Dreams Beyond the Peak). I bought this track and have listened to it perhaps 30 plus times on repeat.


----------



## jeejack

Ronion said:


> Look like a high end Cat Ear Mimi to me.  I can’t believe how much my opinion has changed on these.


They have the 19 21 red dot driver which is great


----------



## Ronion

jeejack said:


> They have the 19 21 red dot driver which is great


You don’t happen to have a link where I can have a look at that driver?  I’ve tried several Google Searches and mostly scored the infamous design awards…


----------



## assassin10000

Ronion said:


> You don’t happen to have a link where I can have a look at that driver?  I’ve tried several Google Searches and mostly scored the infamous design awards…


Links are probably in this thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/


----------



## FranQL

Ronion said:


> You don’t happen to have a link where I can have a look at that driver?  I’ve tried several Google Searches and mostly scored the infamous design awards…



https://es.aliexpress.com/item/4000281063945.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.412d63c01JcQIy


----------



## Ronion

It’s so weird.  The way the reviews of that driver describ the sound is significantly different from what I hear.


----------



## jeejack

Ronion said:


> It’s so weird.  The way the reviews of that driver describ the sound is significantly different from what I hear.


It depends on the tuning


----------



## furyossa

Ronion said:


> It’s so weird.  The way the reviews of that driver describ the sound is significantly different from what I hear.


Don't judge a book by its cover. It's all about is how you tune the DIY driver. Some driver will be giving you a hard time to tune them, but this is not the case with "Red Dot".
Also, if you buy pre-assembled buds (with DIY driver) don't expect the miracle, because most of them use "drag 'n' drop" tuning method 


jeejack said:


> It depends on the tuning


Well said


----------



## emusic13

Is the X6 named that way because its x6 the price of vido?


----------



## furyossa

emusic13 said:


> Is the X6 named that way because its x6 the price of vido?


Yes, what else can be the reason?


----------



## samandhi

So, I finally got my Smabat ST10S black and gold today, and I will offer my first impressions of them here:

 I can't say what these used to sound like, but I have read that these are supposed to be dark sounding. I totally disagree with this, to the opposite side of things, as I will go into in a bit. As for being like the M2S Pro with the 150Ohm driver I can't say, as I don't have it yet. But it does say that the driver is custom, so I am not even sure if the 150Ohm drivers you can buy for the M2S Pro are the same or not. There ARE some things about these that I am kinda' mad about, and we'll get that out of the way first. 

Every review I have read about these say they come in a nice black box (pretty big sized), which doesn't really matter to me much I suppose. But the one I got was all white, and very small (fairly generic for the $135 original asking price). Also it was stated that there were four sets of pads. Two full foams, one donut foam, and one vented full silicone pad. Of these, I got one full foam, one donut, and one full silicone pad (which I love BTW). Another issue is that the cable is supposed to be straight so that you can wear them either down or up. This is not the case with mine. It is up only (plastic ear molds), though the sleeve can be cut off if I want. The biggest issue for me (although it sounds trivial), is that they did not include any sort of case or pouch with them. Not only has every review of these shown one, but I get one with it's little brother the M2S Pro (which are cheaper). I DID see on Aliexpress, when ordering them that these are the "new packaging", but it never explains what that means, or what is actually included. On Smabats own store site, they still show the pouch, and the old box (though they don't show any other accessories). All of these things are not deal-breakers, so please don't think I am down on these?!

As for my early impressions on the sound; these are BRIGHT. I mean almost to the point of shouty (but not quite). To my ears there is a boost in 3k and in 8k to make them asbolutely sparkly. But the downside of this is that the treble section is NOT linear. The mids are a bit recessed, but the major drawback is that they are pretty thin, and not warm at all. Now, I'm not saying they aren't basically tonally accurate, but they don't have that natural timbre. The bass, on the other hand is the best I have heard to date on a flathead earbud. It doesn't focus on subbass as much as on mid to upper bass, and that makes them very tight, and great for any kind of analog music (pretty much any real instruments). It does have subbass it just isn't prominent until you go to listen to music that needs it. The quantity is also higher than any buds I have heard to date. I wouldn't say that it rivals any bassy IEMs or headphones, but for buds it has a ton. It doesn't bleed into any other region by any means, and it is not OVER done at all. I just don't feel the need to add any EQ when I want a "fun" listen. 

The cable is fantastic. Not like the "meh" one that was on the M2S Pro at all. But it is HEAVY. I mean it weighs much more than the buds themselves. Speaking of... The buds are so light, that I would have no idea they were there if I weren't hearing sound from them. These things even stay in my ears jogging, and even when naked (yay for naked buds). Of course also when I sleep (I took a lil' nap after my jog LOL). 

The soundstage isn't that good compared to any other buds I have heard thus far (even the Apple Classic Earbuds), but aren't quite as closed in as IEMs. I would say they are about the same width of some of the best IEMs. On the other hand, the layering is top notch, and I can seperate instruments even on some of most convoluted metal songs. 

Having said all of that, do I like them? Heck yes I do! These are going to be fantastic for anything that has analog drums (including cymbols) ie Rush, Tool, Smock's Beard, etc... These areas are in your face sound and above all else in the music IMO... 

I prefer the full vented silicon covers for comfort, but actually kill the soundstage (and these can't afford to lose any). I have not used the donuts yet, so no comment. I think they are actually too bright when naked, but they stay in my ears really well (because these have the rubber ring on the outer diameter of the driver housing. For sound my favorite are the foams, which I believe to be medium in density. They tame that treble a bit, and bring out that fabulous bass these have. 


That's it for now. I will add to or change my opinion based on burn-in time, and maybe some comparisons to the M2S Pro, and the Chaconnes later. Meanwhile, here are some pics:



Spoiler: Don't Look Ethel.


----------



## furyossa

samandhi said:


> So, I finally got my Smabat ST10S black and gold today, and I will offer my first impressions of them here:
> 
> I can't say what these used to sound like, but I have read that these are supposed to be dark sounding. I totally disagree with this, to the opposite side of things, as I will go into in a bit. As for being like the M2S Pro with the 150Ohm driver I can't say, as I don't have it yet. But it does say that the driver is custom, so I am not even sure if the 150Ohm drivers you can buy for the M2S Pro are the same or not. There ARE some things about these that I am kinda' mad about, and we'll get that out of the way first.
> 
> ...


Congrats! Great review man.


----------



## samandhi

Hmmm... Pretty close to what I am hearing on the ST10S. I don't usually even pay attention to manufacturers curves.


----------



## thesoundandthefury (Aug 2, 2021)

My* Zen LL* (standard 3.5 cable) arrived yesterday.
I'm very satisfied with It, don't think I'll be craving any more buds from now on.

Plays very nicely with the LG G7. The included odyssey dongle will make it play nicely with anything else.

More* comfortable* than other shells - by a fair margin. This is a huge bonus, given that comfort is such an integral part of why I might reach for earbuds (rather than iems/ headphones) to begin with.

Sound signature sounds pretty perfect to me. Not as dark/warm I expected - in a good way. Hits the sweetspot for me between relaxed and energetic.

Lovely lovely* timbres*, a *tightly textured* sound.

Soundstage seems average to intimate, but *imaging* is absolutely on point. If you want the ultimate earbud for ASMR this must be it. Layering and resolution great on most music. Handles albums like Yoshi Horikawa's vapour and Caroline Polachek's Pang with grace and conviction. It starts *struggling in fast complex music* lagging behind in rapid dynamic shifts and congesting in densely layered passages. In albums like Kikuo Miku 5/6 (which I consider to be the Paganini's caprice of technical benchmarking) the LL cannot even hold a light to the performance of headphones (my hifiman deva) or iems (my lz a7) but maybe this is just the inevitable limitation of an earbud's tiny dynamic drivers - or maybe im not driving them hard enough with the g7/odyssey? Either way probably an unfair comparison.



The *treble is sweet and buttery*. Lets Joanna Newsom sing without shrillness.
Sparkly background details in songs are very well articulated, such as in this song:


Midrange seems nice but I'm not very good at describing midranges lol

*Bass is tight and relatively agile*. The low end has a comfortable weight to it - I think partly attributed to how the warmth in the rest of the spectrum compliments it. *Sub bass is quietly present,* but not muscular enough to properly slam in songs like this:



Cable is fine, I appreciate the L plug. Microphonics aren't distracting. Seems sturdy enough. A little stiff right now but I imagine it'll break in over time. Looks a bit like an IV drip though lol

Overall very happy with them! Thank you sfrsfr for the reccomandation and WoodyLuvr for all your help.

other stuff I own: smabat m1pro, snow lotus 1, yincrow x6, mx500 diy pk1, moondrop shiro yuki, hifiman deva, lz a7, t800, mee p1, sony a35, aune m1s, black dragonfly and a speaker system (heco horizons, velodyne, sherbourne, ifi zen blu)


----------



## Hououin Kyouma

RikudouGoku said:


> Faaeal impressions:
> 
> Faaeal Iris 2.0: Warm-neutral, very well-tuned with impressive tech. Guaranteed to review this one. Preliminary rank A+
> 
> ...


I've read your slow lotus balanced ranking and well I can't believe its rank is lower than Iris??? Really??? Your describes about it is far different from my experience: minimum mid-bass bloat with way better technicalities and instrument separation than any Iris lol XD Maybe you had a QC problem earbud or you used an adapter on it. Believe or not, slow lotus 2.5mm get distorted by using any adapter and its sound also is very source dependent. I pair it with ES100 and Aune M1S and it sounds amazing!
You should try rosemary and all other slow lotus version: 1.0, 2.0 and 1.0 plus


----------



## RikudouGoku

Hououin Kyouma said:


> I've read your slow lotus balanced ranking and well I can't believe its rank is lower than Iris??? Really??? Your describes about it is far different from my experience: minimum mid-bass bloat with way better technicalities and instrument separation than any Iris lol XD Maybe you had a QC problem earbud or you used an adapter on it. Believe or not, slow lotus 2.5mm get distorted by using any adapter and its sound also is very source dependent. I pair it with ES100 and Aune M1S and it sounds amazing!
> You should try rosemary and all other slow lotus version: 1.0, 2.0 and 1.0 plus


Might be QC then. I have to use at least a 2.5->4.4mm adapter for it or a 2.5->6.35mm adapter though.


----------



## RikudouGoku

LBBS is legit.   

Not sure which one to review first, either the LBBS or the Iris 2.0....


----------



## RikudouGoku

I let you guys vote lol.

http://www.strawpoll.me/45544347


----------



## RikudouGoku

Yincrow RW-100:

Rank: C

L-shaped, bloated bass and warm tonality that isn’t very well-tuned. Tech is pretty meh as well. I don’t see the reason to get this unless MX500 shell just doesn’t work for you, otherwise most MX500 buds are a lot better than this and the X6 is just…. outclassing it a lot.

Fit is more like an iem without the tips and comfort is good at the beginning but gets very uncomfortable after a while.


----------



## Narayan23

samandhi said:


> As for my early impressions on the sound; these are BRIGHT. I mean almost to the point of shouty (but not quite). To my ears there is a boost in 3k and in 8k to make them asbolutely sparkly. But the downside of this is that the treble section is NOT linear. The mids are a bit recessed, but the major drawback is that they are pretty thin, and not warm at all. Now, I'm not saying they aren't basically tonally accurate, but they don't have that natural timbre. The bass, on the other hand is the best I have heard to date on a flathead earbud. It doesn't focus on subbass as much as on mid to upper bass, and that makes them very tight, and great for any kind of analog music (pretty much any real instruments). It does have subbass it just isn't prominent until you go to listen to music that needs it. The quantity is also higher than any buds I have heard to date. I wouldn't say that it rivals any bassy IEMs or headphones, but for buds it has a ton. It doesn't bleed into any other region by any means, and it is not OVER done at all. I just don't feel the need to add any EQ when I want a "fun" listen.


Great review samandhi! This mimics the experience I had with the ST 10S Gold, the only difference is I didn´t like them enough to keep them, the X6 and also the RY4S Plus with an after market XINHS copper cable (for me) are a more enjoyable listen.


----------



## samandhi

Narayan23 said:


> Great review samandhi! This mimics the experience I had with the ST 10S Gold, the only difference is I didn´t like them enough to keep them, the X6 and also the RY4S Plus with an after market XINHS copper cable (for me) are a more enjoyable listen.


Thank you! Sorry they were not for you, but glad that you found something else that sound to your liking....


----------



## RikudouGoku

btw @WoodyLuvr I think you missed the K´s LBB/LBBS in this post here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3645#post-16392027



2018 - Ks Temperament 小铃 Bell-LBB (30Ω; aka "Original Little Bell-Black")
2018 - Ks Temperament 小铃 Bell-LBW (30Ω; aka "Original Little Bell-White")
2018 - Ks Temperament 小铃 Bell-LBS (30Ω; aka "Original Little Bell-Silver")

2020 - Ks Temperament 小黑铃 Bell-LBBs (30Ω; aka "New Little Black Bell S")

(from your timeline post: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3206#post-15645663)


----------



## Chessnaudio

RikudouGoku said:


> I let you guys vote lol.
> 
> http://www.strawpoll.me/45544347


I've been loving the LBBS. The technicalities are pretty good. If I need a little more consumer tuning I switch to the Earbuds Anonymous. It has a much more present midbass, but a slight bit of bleed


----------



## chinmie

I've been listening to the MS16 and comparing it to my other earbuds since it arrived this afternoon. 

gotta say I'm surprisingly happy with it, i don't know why I'm really late at trying this out   

after reading past review about it being bass-light, even without foams i still find it having enough quantity and punch in the bass. I listened to some Deadmau5 and can still find it enjoyable with this MS16
i currently put some full Hiegi foams because even as i like the tuning of it, without foams i find that it has a disconnect of the left and right staging, i suspect it's because of the way it fit on my ears.. so i decided to use foams on it. I think i would swap it to thin foams tomorrow to see how it goes. 

the open vent would change the sound like the old SFR PT15, so it would be a great idea to experiment by taping a portion of the vent to play with the tuning. 

I asked my wife who's sitting next to me if she can hear the music leaking from it while I was wearing it, she said at about 60 cm and farther she didn't hear anything (at that time there's ambient instrumental music playing softly from her ipad across the room) 

from memory, I'd say it's close to the PT15 in tuning, but the MS16 is less grainy on the treble and felt more airy on the soundstage compared to the PT15. 
the closest tuning to this MS16 among my collection would be my PK16 ( which is my most favorite Willsound, basically an ER4XR in earbud form), but still with enough differences to make having them both non-redundant. 

i read a post here saying that there's difference in sound between the black to the silver version? does anyone can confirm this?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 3, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> btw @WoodyLuvr I think you missed the K´s LBB/LBBS in this post here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3645#post-16392027
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That post was originally intended to explain K's "flagship" models only. I'll gladly add the Little Bells, as well as all the other missing lower models to the post though if you think I should.


----------



## RikudouGoku (Aug 3, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> That post was originally intended to explain K's "flagship" models only. I'll gladly add the Little Bells, as well as all the other missing lower models to the post though if you think I should.


yup, great post to find K´s entire lineup.  

(I think it would be nice if you made a post like that for other brands with a lot of buds, like Smabat.)


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> yup, great post to find K´s entire lineup.
> 
> (I think it would be nice if you made a post like that for other brands with a lot of buds, like Smabat.)


Will do then; I'll expand the list to include all models


----------



## vygas

Hououin Kyouma said:


> I've read your slow lotus balanced ranking and well I can't believe its rank is lower than Iris??? Really??? Your describes about it is far different from my experience: minimum mid-bass bloat with way better technicalities and instrument separation than any Iris lol XD Maybe you had a QC problem earbud or you used an adapter on it. Believe or not, slow lotus 2.5mm get distorted by using any adapter and its sound also is very source dependent. I pair it with ES100 and Aune M1S and it sounds amazing!
> You should try rosemary and all other slow lotus version: 1.0, 2.0 and 1.0 plus


I was extremely surprised too, I've never really had QC issues with bloated bass and only really had pairs of FAAEAL buds with decreased bass, and even though I prefer the less bassier QC tuned pair, the normal pair sounds fine with not that much bloat. I'd go as far to say most of the Snow Lotus buds I've tried have less bloat than any of the stock Vido buds (X6 included). Though, only way to tell is if the adapters they were using ended up hurting the sound.


----------



## RikudouGoku

vygas said:


> Though, only way to tell is if the adapters they were using ended up hurting the sound.


No issues with all my other transducers.


----------



## vygas

RikudouGoku said:


> No issues with all my other transducers.


Not to be one of those guys but there are some cases of adapters ruining the sound, gotta remember that they made it balanced for a reason , some buds are stubborn like that.


----------



## RikudouGoku

vygas said:


> Not to be one of those guys but there are some cases of adapters ruining the sound, gotta remember that they made it balanced for a reason , some buds are stubborn like that.


With that logic, at the least. The 2.5mm ->4.4mm shouldnt have any detrimental effects to the sound. But it doesnt sound much different from the 6.35mm adapter (difference is between the DX160 and the Asgard 3 amps).


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> btw @WoodyLuvr I think you missed the K´s LBB/LBBS in this post here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3645#post-16392027
> 
> 
> 
> ...





WoodyLuvr said:


> That post was originally intended to explain K's "flagship" models only. I'll gladly add the Little Bells, as well as all the other missing lower models to the post though if you think I should.





RikudouGoku said:


> yup, great post to find K´s entire lineup.


Done! All updated *here*


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Done! All updated.


Looks O*K   *


----------



## vygas (Aug 3, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> With that logic, at the least. The 2.5mm ->4.4mm shouldnt have any detrimental effects to the sound. But it doesnt sound much different from the 6.35mm adapter (difference is between the DX160 and the Asgard 3 amps).


Doesn't Pentaconn have an extra ground pole that 2.5mm doesn't? I would've assumed that it would make a difference, possibly not.


----------



## samandhi

Well folks. I have come up with a final solution for the Moondrop Chaconne. As you may, or may not know, I have been searching for a solution to help keep these in my ears while I work, or play. These are heavy enough that you could walk, and stuff like that, but anything that involves moving your head quickly, or bending over, and etc... does not work too well with them. 

At first I tried silicone rings, and they worked a bit better than foams alone, but still liked to drop out when turning my head quickly. Next I tried some aftermarket silicone wings. They worked, and in the short term they were pretty comfortable. But after a time (about an hour or so), they really started to irritate my ears. On top of that, because they were clipped to the front of the driver, they held the buds too far out from my ear canal. It didn't hurt the sound TOO much, but the bass was made much less, and those that have heard the Chaconne know that they can't afford to lose any quantity of bass. 

I was browsing Amazon and ran across something that didn't register at the time, but when I took a good look at the design of the bud, I came back to this accessory with some excitement. It turns out that these work perfectly with the Chaconne: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07B4HF18C/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1. 

They are made of pretty soft (yet rigid) plastic. To the point that they don't snap back to the original position, but actually stay where you put them (to an extent). This makes them basically moldable to your ear structure. The "C" type hooks are removeable from the ear hooks and are made much more rigid and not really pliable, giving them much more tensile strength. Because they clip on the narrow barrel near the back of the bud shell, they hold the buds closer to the ear canal (but not so much that you ruin the sound staging for these). 

I have been wearing them with this setup for some hours now, and OH BOY! I can't tell I have the buds on except for the beautiful sounds I am hearing. And I could probably play freeze tag with these on without them even moving (if anyone remembers that game from their youth ). 

Anywho, here are some pics to show what they look like, and how they fit on the buds:




Spoiler: GooLook Earhooks


----------



## vygas

samandhi said:


> Well folks. I have come up with a final solution for the Moondrop Chaconne. As you may, or may not know, I have been searching for a solution to help keep these in my ears while I work, or play. These are heavy enough that you could walk, and stuff like that, but anything that involves moving your head quickly, or bending over, and etc... does not work too well with them.
> 
> At first I tried silicone rings, and they worked a bit better than foams alone, but still liked to drop out when turning my head quickly. Next I tried some aftermarket silicone wings. They worked, and in the short term they were pretty comfortable. But after a time (about an hour or so), they really started to irritate my ears. On top of that, because they were clipped to the front of the driver, they held the buds too far out from my ear canal. It didn't hurt the sound TOO much, but the bass was made much less, and those that have heard the Chaconne know that they can't afford to lose any quantity of bass.
> 
> ...


This kinda reminds me of what VE packed in with the Sun buds, nice find!


----------



## samandhi

vygas said:


> Doesn't Pentaconn have an extra ground pole that 2.5mm doesn't? I would've assumed that it would make a difference, possibly not.


It does indeed have an extra ground ring.


----------



## RikudouGoku

vygas said:


> Doesn't Pentaconn have an extra ground pole that 2.5mm doesn't? I would've assumed that it would make a difference possibly not.


No idea. 



X6 vs SL 2.5:

Cleaner and more tonally correct. More mid-bass on the SL causing some slight bleed into the mids and overly warm. 



Almost no bass extension and rumble compared to the X6. Speed is similar but tighter and a lot more texture on the X6.




Tonality is more correct on the X6 due to it being brighter and cleaner. Mid-bass bloat is affecting the violins and it sounds unclean on it on the SL. 


There you go.


----------



## samandhi

vygas said:


> This kinda reminds me of what VE packed in with the Sun buds, nice find!


Thanks! I wonder why the idea didn't seem to catch on with more buds being as how this is a weakness to them, especially on the heavier ones (which pretty much describes all of the so called TOTL buds out there nowadays)?! Maybe at least as an add-in option.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 3, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> (I think it would be nice if you made a post like that for other brands with a lot of buds, like Smabat.)


This is what I have... anything missing?

*Svara - Smabat (Shenzhen Smabat Technology Co., Ltd.)** Model Timeline*

*2017 - Svara-L & M; 115Ω*​​*2018 - Svara-L 2018; 32Ω*​*2018 - Svara Pro; 64Ω *_(First Labyrinth-Maze Acoustics Design)_​​*2019 - Smabat M1 Pro; 32Ω*_ (2nd Gen 3D Labyrinth-Maze Acoustics)_​*2019 - Smabat ST10 Green; 45Ω *_(2nd Gen 3D Labyrinth-Maze Acoustics)_​​*2020 - Smabat M2 Pro; 40Ω *_(1st Gen Modular Earbud w/ Labyrinth-Maze Acoustics)_​*2020 - Smabat ST10S Black-Silver; 40Ω *_(3rd Gen Labyrinth-Maze Acoustics)_​*2020 - Smabat ST10S Black-Gold; 150Ω *_(3rd Gen Labyrinth-Maze Acoustics)_​​*2021 - Smabat M0; 20Ω *_(First DIY Modular Earbud w/ Labyrinth-Maze Acoustics)_​*2021 - Smabat M2 Pro 2021 Version; 40Ω *_(2nd Gen Modular Earbud w/ Labyrinth-Maze Acoustics)_​*2021 - Smabat M2s Pro; 40Ω *_(2nd Gen Modular Earbud w/ Labyrinth-Maze Acoustics)_​*2021 - Smabat M3 Pro; 150Ω *_(w/ Labyrinth-Maze Acoustics)_​*2021 - Smabat Proto 1.0; 16Ω *_(3rd Gen DIY Modular Earbud w/ Labyrinth-Maze Acoustics)_​*2021 - Smabat Super One; 100Ω *_(aka S-Class Earbud; 2nd Gen Linear Labyrinth Space Acoustics w/Integrated Linear Channel-Duct)_​*2021 - Smabat Svara 1; 20Ω *_(w/ Labyrinth-Maze Acoustics)_​​*2022 - Smabat M4; 40ΩLCP *_(4th Gen DIY Modular Earbud; other available modules: 40ΩLCPLarge; 40ΩTi; 100ΩBio; 120ΩBio; 150ΩTi)_​*2022 - Smabat M Pro; 40ΩLCP *_(w/ 2nd Gen Linear Labyrinth Space Acoustics)_​*2022 - Smabat M Youth; 40ΩTi *_(w/ 2nd Gen Linear Labyrinth Space Acoustics)_​*2022 - Smabat ST20; 50ΩLCP *_(w/ 3rd Gen Conch Labyrinth Space Acoustics)_​*2022 - Smabat ST20 Pro; 120Ω *_(World's 2nd Balanced Armature + Dynamic Hybrid w/ 3rd Gen Conch Labyrinth Space Acoustics)_​


----------



## vygas

samandhi said:


> Thanks! I wonder why the idea didn't seem to catch on with more buds being as how this is a weakness to them, especially on the heavier ones (which pretty much describes all of the so called TOTL buds out there nowadays)?! Maybe at least as an add-in option.


Honestly I feel as if they make the shells small enough to force you out of using one  , I guess people just expect you to just sit down and listen to your buds at specific times of day without using them outside


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> This is what I have... anything missing?
> 
> *Svara - Smabat (Shenzhen Smabat Technology Co., Ltd.) Model Timeline*
> 
> *2017 - Svara L & M (Original 115Ω)*​​*2019 - Smabat M1 Pro (32Ω)*​*2019 - Smabat ST10 (Green 45Ω)*​​*2020 - Smabat M2 Pro (40Ω; Modular Earbud)*​*2020 - Smabat ST10S (Black-Silver 40Ω; Black-Gold 150Ω)*​​*2021 - Smabat M0 (20Ω; DIY Modular Earbud)*​*2021 - Smabat M2s Pro (40Ω; Modular Earbud)*​*2021 - Smabat Super One (100Ω; S-Class Earbud)*​


Wait, Svara = Smabat? 


Doesnt seem to be missing anything.


----------



## FranQL

samandhi said:


> Thanks! I wonder why the idea didn't seem to catch on with more buds being as how this is a weakness to them, especially on the heavier ones (which pretty much describes all of the so called TOTL buds out there nowadays)?! Maybe at least as an add-in option.



I think that although it is ergonomically logical to use it with adjustment problems, it does away with the concept of buds, making it more cumbersome to use on the go. That and that the buds that have implemented it have not had a great reception / many sales.


----------



## assassin10000

RikudouGoku said:


> Wait, Svara = Smabat?


Yep. Thats their original name.


----------



## chinmie

WoodyLuvr said:


> This is what I have... anything missing?
> 
> *Svara - Smabat (Shenzhen Smabat Technology Co., Ltd.) Model Timeline*
> 
> *2017 - Svara L & M (Original 115Ω)*​​*2019 - Smabat M1 Pro (32Ω)*​*2019 - Smabat ST10 (Green 45Ω)*​​*2020 - Smabat M2 Pro (40Ω; Modular Earbud)*​*2020 - Smabat ST10S (Black-Silver 40Ω; Black-Gold 150Ω)*​​*2021 - Smabat M0 (20Ω; DIY Modular Earbud)*​*2021 - Smabat M2s Pro (40Ω; Modular Earbud)*​*2021 - Smabat Super One (100Ω; S-Class Earbud)*​



if I'm not mistaken there's Svara 32Ω version too?


----------



## RikudouGoku

chinmie said:


> if I'm not mistaken there's Svara 32Ω version too?


Seems to be a SVARA-Pro as well.





https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32807334197.html


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 3, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Wait, Svara = Smabat?


Yes!


assassin10000 said:


> Yep. Thats their original name.


Correct.


chinmie said:


> if I'm not mistaken there's Svara 32Ω version too?


Just corrected my list. Yes, the Svara-L 2018 came in 32 ohm impedance. I also added the Svara Pro as well which was the first maze design but was short-lived and soon after replaced by the original ST-10.


----------



## samandhi

vygas said:


> I would've assumed that it would make a difference, possibly not.


In practice it shouldn't make any difference. In theory it will make for a cleaner overall sound. It is like having a discrete ground for both left and right. But even if if DID make a difference, it would be so miniscule that you would be hard pressed to notice. It will only really be noticed by those that want every drop of blackness they can get, and can't get it out of their head that it isn't the BEST it can possibly be for the tech we have. Though this whole thing hinges on the implementation of the jack itself anyhow. hehe


vygas said:


> Honestly I feel as if they make the shells small enough to force you out of using one  , I guess people just expect you to just sit down and listen to your buds at specific times of day without using them outside


Good point. But if I were making buds, I would want to get away from the past, and make them as versatile as possible?! All-rounders if you will. The lighter ones I can totally see this, because (when they fit right) they tend to be pretty solid in the ear. But with the "innovation" of using metals for some of the higher end ones, it seems as though they would try and solve the most obvious problem with them.. 

Ah well, not really a problem for me either way.


----------



## samandhi

RikudouGoku said:


> Seems to be a SVARA-Pro as well.
> 
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32807334197.html





WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes!
> 
> Correct.
> 
> Just corrected my list. Yes, the Svara-L 2018 came in 32 ohm impedance. I also added the Svara Pro as well which was the first maze design but was short-lived and soon after replaced by the original ST-10.


Was going to say that those look eerily similar to the ST10S...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> It does indeed have an extra ground ring.



Which I still, for the life of me, have trouble wrapping my head around. Why, if you have independent signal and return for each channel, do you also need a common ground for the jacket? I understand the theoretical noise rejection angle, but does it translate _practically _or was this just another attempt to make another standard that wasn't 2.5mm?

As the engineering joke goes: we had 23 standards....someone decided that was too many and harmonization was required. We now have _24 _standards.


samandhi said:


> Good point. But if I were making buds, I would want to get away from the past, and make them as versatile as possible?! All-rounders if you will. The lighter ones I can totally see this, because (when they fit right) they tend to be pretty solid in the ear. But with the "innovation" of using metals for some of the higher end ones, it seems as though they would try and solve the most obvious problem with them..


What we need is a return to all-silicone earbud designs. The first person to implement one of those (properly, mind...don't need something that's going to slough pocket lint and dust constantly) is going to make _bank_. @WoodyLuvr might be a fun project if you can figure out how that molding process works.

In a stunning upset, NiceHCK has completely lapped the Smabat order and is already sitting in US customs while the drivers are parked in Hangzhou customs. Still anybody's game, though. Just excited at the prospect of getting _any _order from AE in a little over a week, mid-COVID.


----------



## vygas (Aug 3, 2021)

Also, I got my Monk Slim Metal this morning, they look pretty damn nice too.



Spoiler: Monk Slim Metal








First impressions : Large soundstage and very good imaging, fair amount of detail for something with a neutral sound signature, definitely isn't for bassheads either, fairly comfortable as well. The main issue I had with it were the expectations of it being a true "PK" shell, but it turned out to be a larger variant closer to the B40, despite that, if these come up for 20usd again, I will definitely grab a spare (or two)

Anyone else got their pair yet?


----------



## vygas

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Which I still, for the life of me, have trouble wrapping my head around. Why, if you have independent signal and return for each channel, do you also need a common ground for the jacket? I understand the theoretical noise rejection angle, but does it translate _practically _or was this just another attempt to make another standard that wasn't 2.5mm?
> 
> As the engineering joke goes: we had 23 standards....someone decided that was too many and harmonization was required. We now have _24 _standards.


I actually spoke with a friend and it's got nothing to do with Headphones, IEMs or Earbuds (in theory). It's aimed towards people who want to run Pentaconn to Dual XLR because it's the only balanced jack that has extra grounding for those applications. Though it might still have some effect on the sound of transducers since no interconnect is perfect. So that joke is pretty fitting for this situation


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Which I still, for the life of me, have trouble wrapping my head around. Why, if you have independent signal and return for each channel, do you also need a common ground for the jacket? I understand the theoretical noise rejection angle, but does it translate _practically _or was this just another attempt to make another standard that wasn't 2.5mm?
> 
> As the engineering joke goes: we had 23 standards....someone decided that was too many and harmonization was required. We now have _24 _standards.


You know how the industry goes?! You do get a gain with having the extra ground, but is it very worthwhile? If you have discrete grounding that means that if you DO get noise on one, you may not get it on the other... ROFL  

That is priceless!


vygas said:


> Also, I got my Monk Slim Metal this morning, they look pretty damn nice too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those look really nice! Congrats!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

vygas said:


> I actually spoke with a friend and it's got nothing to do with Headphones, IEMs or Earbuds (in theory). It's aimed towards people who want to run Pentaconn to Dual XLR because it's the only balanced jack that has extra grounding for those applications. Though it might still have some effect on the sound of transducers since no interconnect is perfect. So that joke is pretty fitting for this situation


Thought something like that since the pinout is effectively just 4-pin XLR with a different-shaped plug. Just makes it really hard, much like cable material debates, to say it's the Pentaconn connector itself that's producing the sonic benefit.

Oh and @chinmie I saw the mention of Deadmau5. Got to see him test out the Cube V3 setup live before everything started shutting down. What an impressive piece of tech:


Additional shoutouts for Aus, Fehrplay, and OVERWERK if you're looking for similar artists. Really like OVERWERK's tendency to use arpeggios in his tracks; gives it a neo-classical feel:


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 3, 2021)

If I think about it, it's absolutely insane the number of connectors I have seen come and go since the 1970s  !


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Oh and @chinmie I saw the mention of Deadmau5. Got to see him test out the Cube V3 setup live before everything started shutting down. What an impressive piece of tech:


That IS impressive, but what I find more impressive is the Space Invaders tattoo...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

WoodyLuvr said:


> If I think about it, it's absolutely insane the number of connectors I have seen come and go since the 1970s  !


Two words that shouldn't belong together: BNC earbuds 


samandhi said:


> That IS impressive, but what I find more impressive is the Space Invaders tattoo...


How about his studio? I could live in there:


----------



## vygas

samandhi said:


> Those look really nice! Congrats!


I love 'em, I also really like the Monk Lite 120ohm I ordered with the Slim Metal, used it as an excuse to finally quench my curiosity. The 120ohm is pretty punchy and energetic set of buds with some intimacy, even though they weren't as refined or detailed as the Slim Metal, they definitely deserve the praise they get in my opinion


----------



## vygas

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Two words that shouldn't belong together: BNC earbuds
> 
> How about his studio? I could live in there:



His studio is pretty nuts, I'd probably scared to even breathe near any of the synths he keeps there


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

vygas said:


> His studio is pretty nuts, I'd probably scared to even breathe near any of the synths he keeps there


Modular is fun and relatively bulletproof; you'd have to really mess something up to blow a card. Based on that wall, seems he has at least 3 sets of each of what I'm assuming are Intellijel gear. Make Noise or Dreadbox are a more cost-effective option if you want to noodle, though


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Two words that shouldn't belong together: BNC earbuds


This!


miserybeforethemusic said:


> How about his studio? I could live in there:


IKR? I don't know if I would even know what to do with all that stuff?! 


vygas said:


> His studio is pretty nuts, I'd probably scared to even breathe near any of the synths he keeps there


Wonder if he has rules about taking drinks into this room?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 3, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> What we need is a return to all-silicone earbud designs. The first person to implement one of those (properly, mind...don't need something that's going to slough pocket lint and dust constantly) is going to make _bank_. @WoodyLuvr might be a fun project if you can figure out how that molding process works.


Great idea; unfortunately my DIY days are well over now... the ole eagle eyes and steady hands are no-more.

Back in the 80s Sony R&D worked hard on implementing silicon shells but there were just too many obstacles to overcome to get it to work. I know that the hearing aid industry is trying hard to implement a silicon like material but is also battling many of the similar obstacles forty years later.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> Wonder if he has rules about taking drinks into this room?


He likes to party (can't reveal how I know). Wouldn't surprise me if drinks were _required. _



WoodyLuvr said:


> Great idea; unfortunately my DIY days are well over now... the ole eagle eyes and steady hands are no-more.


Well then whomever is willing to take on a more...involved...DIY project like this might find it rewarding, especially since the earbud shell itself would, in effect, become the strain relief. Not to mention the comfort advantage...why hasn't this been done by one of the big guys recently? Smabat, if you're reading this...soft silicone earbuds...make it happen


----------



## WoodyLuvr

miserybeforethemusic said:


> why hasn't this been done by one of the big guys recently? Smabat, if you're reading this...soft silicone earbuds...make it happen


see my edited post above


----------



## RikudouGoku

Yincrow RW-100 VS Apple Airpods 2019
(Borrowed the Airpods from my little sister)

Setup:
RW-100 (PC setup, Asgard 3 + Topping E10)
Airpods (mobile, LG G7, Bluetooth)

Sub-bass: Extends lower and rumbles a lot more on the RW-100, punch quantity is a lot higher on the RW-100 but similar speed, tightness and texture.
Mid-bass: The Airpods are a lot cleaner due to the faster/tighter bass along with more texture but more quantity on the RW-100.

Mids: Female vocals are better on the Airpods, due to the tonality being brighter and cleaner (no bass bleed on them unlike the RW-100) but also more natural with the timbre. Male vocals are also better on the Airpods due to the bass bleed bottlenecking (unclean) the RW-100 as well as more natural timbre on the Airpods. Similar quantity though.

Treble: similarly non-peaky but cleaner and airier sound on the Airpods, although tonality is somewhat similar, just that the Airpods sounds like they removed a blanket covering the drivers.

Tech: Wider soundstage on the Airpods but a bit deeper and more holographic on the RW-100. Detail, imaging, instrument separation and timbre are better on the Airpods.
Overall: The Airpods are more of an “audiophile” tuning than the RW-100 and made it look bad….

Comment on the Airpods: Well, I admit. They are actually better…a lot better than I expected (then again, I expected garbage from them since I don’t exactly like Apple lol).

Are they worth the price? For sound, no. There are better earbuds out there for sound, but if you want the convenience of wireless, then yes. I say they are worth it.

(FIY: They are more similar to earbuds than iems.)


----------



## nymz

WoodyLuvr said:


> Done! All updated *here*



Thanks for all your time and work. You da man!


----------



## emusic13




----------



## jrazmar

RikudouGoku said:


> No idea.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Riku, I'm planning to buy and try out the SL 1.0+ CE (Blue color) but found that there is a Balanced 2.5mm version. Reading through your experience about the Balanced version, I'm now leaning towards the 1.0+ CE. Besides, I don't have a Balanced source and will just use a ddHifi adapter which is good by the way. Have you heard it? And if yes, how does it compare to the Balanced one? I know for sure that you like the X6 better but would like to confirm your opinion on the CE if you have tried it before I make the purchase. Thanks.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 4, 2021)

emusic13 said:


>


A rare *Blur 173 MX150 aPs (150Ω)* nice! I was wondering who had secured the 2.5TRRS version in black shell back in March... now I (we) know!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

nymz said:


> Thanks for all your time and work. You da man!


My pleasure really. If anyone has any data, whether it be an addition or correction, please feel free to PM and I will update as accordingly. Suggestions are also most welcome


----------



## 1Q84 (Aug 4, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> No idea.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Maybe you have an anomaly X6? Even in Sam L's EQ, he lowered the midbass region to somehow lift the mids more. There is a noticeable midbass bleed in the X6, which is noticeable when you A/B it with more neutral buds. The X6 actually has a wonky mids tuning, similar with the TC200, its just less noticeable on the X6 due to the mid bass bleed compared to the cleaner and more technical TC200.


RikudouGoku said:


> Alright, guess not.
> 
> "mk2 makes x6 feels more neutral in my opinion.."
> "mk2 is good, but too bassy for me, vocals a bit recessed as the effect, and the bass do bleed to the mids a bit."
> ...


Also, regarding the other post on Willsound Mk2 vs X6, I don't get how someone can say that the Mk2 has a midbass bleed and the X6 doesn't have them? The Mk2 has fuller mids than the X6 and that's different from a bad mid-bass bleed. If I remember, even Super Review ranks the Mk2 better than the X6, and he also doesn't like too much bass.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jrazmar said:


> Hi Riku, I'm planning to buy and try out the SL 1.0+ CE (Blue color) but found that there is a Balanced 2.5mm version. Reading through your experience about the Balanced version, I'm now leaning towards the 1.0+ CE. Besides, I don't have a Balanced source and will just use a ddHifi adapter which is good by the way. Have you heard it? And if yes, how does it compare to the Balanced one? I know for sure that you like the X6 better but would like to confirm your opinion on the CE if you have tried it before I make the purchase. Thanks.


Not in my list = dont have it. So no, I havent heard any other version of the SL, at this point the Iris 2.0 is the best Faaeal bud. 




1Q84 said:


> Maybe you have an anomaly X6? Even in Sam L's EQ, he lowered the midbass region to somehow lift the mids more. There is a noticeable midbass bleed in the X6, which is noticeable when you A/B it with more neutral buds. The X6 actually has a wonky mids tuning, similar with the TC200, its just less noticeable on the X6 due to the mid bass bleed compared to the cleaner and more technical TC200.
> 
> Also, regarding the other post on Willsound Mk2 vs X6, I don't get how someone can say that the Mk2 has a midbass bleed and the X6 doesn't have them? The Mk2 has fuller mids than the X6 and that's different from a bad mid-bass bleed. If I remember, even Super Review ranks the Mk2 better than the X6, and he also doesn't like too much bass.


Yes, when you compare the X6 to something like the Chaconne, there IS bleed from the mid-bass. 

No idea on the MK2, but if that one has more bass than the X6, then I can understand it having more bleed.


----------



## Hououin Kyouma (Aug 4, 2021)

jrazmar said:


> Hi Riku, I'm planning to buy and try out the SL 1.0+ CE (Blue color) but found that there is a Balanced 2.5mm version. Reading through your experience about the Balanced version, I'm now leaning towards the 1.0+ CE. Besides, I don't have a Balanced source and will just use a ddHifi adapter which is good by the way. Have you heard it? And if yes, how does it compare to the Balanced one? I know for sure that you like the X6 better but would like to confirm your opinion on the CE if you have tried it before I make the purchase. Thanks.


If you don't have a 2.5mm balanced port, don't buy it. Don't use any adapter on snow lotus 2.5mm, ever!
I've tried all snow lotus version, I can give you some quick reviews:
* 1.0 ver: Balanced, light bass but tight, lush mid, polite treb but still extended enough
* 1.0 plus: V-shaped, better bass than 1.0-both quantity and quality but mid is recessed, same treb as 1.0
* 2.5mm: Balanced, slighly v-shaped, has better mid than 1.0 and bass of 1.0 plus but with some sub-bass added, treb is more extended than both
* 2.0 ver 1-same cable as 1.0 plus (out of stock): mid/vocal centric earbud, a little dark
* 2.0 ver 2-same cable as 1.0, but in white color (out of stock): same as 1.0 but with more treb extension, a brighter version of 1.0
All snow lotus have minimum mid-bass bloat and great images/instruments seperation, big soundstage, all are 64 ohms. I haven't tried 150 ohms-snow lotus 2.5mm
Other Faaeal:
* Rosemary (150 ohms): An excellent bassy and dark earbud but still detailed, bass extension is amazing. *HUGE, very HUGE *soundstage
* Narcissus 2.0 (300 ohms) (out of stock): A great balanced earbud with *LUSH *vocal, bass is also great
* Iris (all are 32 ohms): Iris 2.0 is the best of all Iris, don't buy others
* Faaeal 400 ohms (out of stock): Haven't tried
* Datura pro: Very lush vocal but too much mid-centric. Very overwhelming mids. I dislike this most, not my tune. EQ may fix this problem
All 64 ohms and above faaeal need power to sound best! A good amp is required


----------



## RikudouGoku

LBBS = mid-fi? Sure doesnt sound like it.....


----------



## bigtim

Faaeal Iris Ancestor - loving these so far. Bass quantity sounds good and the mids don't sound recessed. They have that 'in your face' presentation that I really like. Not sure if 'in your face' translates as narrow soundstage but they remind me of my Senn HD25's which have a similar presentation. 

Currently listening on Spotify via a Hidizs dongle plugged into an Android phone.


----------



## Chessnaudio

RikudouGoku said:


> LBBS = mid-fi? Sure doesnt sound like it.....



Positive or negative?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Chessnaudio said:


> Positive or negative?


Positive is putting it mildly.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Btw, could someone create the review page for the LBBS so I can upload it faster when I am done?


----------



## Dany1

I have a budget of $70 and I'm currently leaning towards the Smabat M2s Pro. If there are any better options around, then please suggest some.  
I already own popular budget earbuds like X6, Traceless, TC200, Vido, IRIS, Snow Lotus and such. I'm now looking for a step-up in SQ.


----------



## Chessnaudio

RikudouGoku said:


> Positive is putting it mildly.


Wasn't sure what you meant. But I can't say enough how much i really like these earbuds. I was shocked there a second


----------



## vygas

Hououin Kyouma said:


> All 64 ohms and above faaeal need power to sound best! A good amp is required


I 100% agree, even the Monk+ can actually benefit from a better source, it's what they were engineered to do . The impressions of the FAAEAL buds were also pretty on point with what I hear from my pairs, godspeed Lab Member 001


----------



## Nool

RikudouGoku said:


> Yincrow RW-100 VS Apple Airpods 2019
> (Borrowed the Airpods from my little sister)
> 
> Setup:
> ...


I recently bought a pair of gen 2 airpods and have also been pretty impressed with their tuning, especially with the upper mids and treble. Usually there's some overshoot or rolloff past 4khz but the airpods are surprisingly consistent.

Also, putting foams on them makes them pretty bassy, not as much as the X6 but still better than most buds, though resolution seems to suffer a bit. Would recommend.

Only thing I don't like about them is that they sound a bit weak, notes come in a bit thinner and dispersed compared to my other buds. Decent resolution but lacking in impact. The staging sounds more "open backed" whereas my other buds sound more contained and stronger, which I prefer.

Unfortunately the controls are pretty much non existent with Android.. I'm looking at getting the fiil cc2 and SoundPEATS trueair, will probably sell the airpods if those sound decent. Being forced to keep the phone on hand to change volume, music etc kind of defeats the purpose of TWS.


----------



## assassin10000

RikudouGoku said:


> Btw, could someone create the review page for the LBBS so I can upload it faster when I am done?


https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ks-earphone-2020-lbs-little-bell-s.25332/


----------



## RikudouGoku

assassin10000 said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ks-earphone-2020-lbs-little-bell-s.25332/


oof, sorry didnt see it and made one myself lol.


https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ks-temperament-小黑铃-bell-lbbs.25331/reviews#review-26435

Rank: S+


Totally a blood bath in the comparison section lol.


----------



## nymz (Aug 4, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> oof, sorry didnt see it and made one myself lol.
> 
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ks-temperament-小黑铃-bell-lbbs.25331/reviews#review-26435
> ...



Great job! 

Now get M2S pro golden driver and compare them 🙏

Preliminary, I think I prefer golden driver to lbbs, but need to compare when I get home.

LBBS is a beast tho and the most confortable bud I own.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 4, 2021)

assassin10000 said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ks-earphone-2020-lbs-little-bell-s.25332/


Nice work. FYI the 2020 version  ( *K's Temperament 小黑铃 Bell-LBBs 30Ω*_ *aka "New Little Black Bell S"* )_ has *two "B"s* as the 2018 Original Little Bell-Silver is known as "LBS".


----------



## RikudouGoku

nymz said:


> Great job!
> 
> Now get M2S pro golden driver and compare them 🙏
> 
> ...


Unlikely if they dont send me one.


----------



## nymz

RikudouGoku said:


> Unlikely if they dont send me one.



We can arrange something


----------



## assassin10000

WoodyLuvr said:


> Nice work. FYI the 2020 version  ( *K's Temperament 小黑铃 Bell-LBBs 30Ω*_ *aka "New Little Black Bell S"* )_ has *two "B"s* as the 2018 Original Little Bell-Silver is known as "LBS".


Whoops. Updated.


----------



## nymz

The day someone like Blur uses a shell like LBBS or someone makes a flagship on that shell, I'm insta-buying.

To everyone on the fence, grab it. Sound is awsome, confort is even better.


----------



## RikudouGoku

nymz said:


> The day someone like Blur uses a shell like LBBS or someone makes a flagship on that shell, I'm insta-buying.
> 
> To everyone on the fence, grab it. Sound is awsome, confort is even better.


Flagship huh? They got the Bell-Ti and the Bell-Blue that might be better?   
Unfortunately it seems the QC on the Ti doesnt seem very good...


----------



## nymz

RikudouGoku said:


> Flagship huh? They got the Bell-Ti and the Bell-Blue that might be better?
> Unfortunately it seems the QC on the Ti doesnt seem very good...



But the shell seems bigger


----------



## assassin10000

RikudouGoku said:


> oof, sorry didnt see it and made one myself lol.
> 
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ks-temperament-小黑铃-bell-lbbs.25331/reviews#review-26435
> ...


Doh!

I even uploaded modified translation of the insert in the box too.


----------



## RikudouGoku

nymz said:


> But the shell seems bigger


It sure does.




(bell-ti)





Seems the bell-blue has a similar shape?


----------



## assassin10000

RikudouGoku said:


> It sure does.
> 
> 
> (bell-ti)
> ...


The "ling" or bell series are all smaller shells afaik. Maybe @WoodyLuvr can confirm?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Is this the golden driver?




https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001268432243.html
Seems to be sold out on their store.


But seems to be available here:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003012838023.html
Although I have never used that store and only has 72 followers (97,5% positive feedback).


----------



## WoodyLuvr

nymz said:


> But the shell seems bigger





RikudouGoku said:


> It sure does.
> 
> 
> (bell-ti)
> ...





assassin10000 said:


> The "ling" or bell series are all smaller shells afaik. Maybe @WoodyLuvr can confirm?


An optical illusion the Bell-Ti are indeed smaller.


----------



## nymz

WoodyLuvr said:


> An optical illusion the Bell-Ti are indeed smaller.



Smaller than LBBS? Can you take a picture? 🙏


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> An optical illusion the Bell-Ti are indeed smaller.


Wait, they are smaller???


----------



## FranQL

RikudouGoku said:


> oof, sorry didnt see it and made one myself lol.
> 
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ks-temperament-小黑铃-bell-lbbs.25331/reviews#review-26435
> ...



You have to start thinking of a letter that is higher than S.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 4, 2021)

nymz said:


> Smaller than LBBS? Can you take a picture? 🙏





RikudouGoku said:


> Wait, they are smaller???


Unfortunately, I only have the Bell-Ti 120Ω now; I sold, traded. and/or gifted away all my other Ks over the last few months.

The *2018 Bell-Ti 32Ω & 120Ω* and *2020 Bell-Ti Onmyoji 30Ω* use the same shell design (molding) and are ever-so-slightly smaller than LBB/LBW/LBS; Bell-Blue; LBBs; and Bell-We.

I have yet to see the _2021 Bell-Ti Onmyoji v2021 30Ω_ or the _2021 Bell-Ti Plus 30Ω_ to confirm if they are using the same shell design and size but it appears they are even though the Plus has a slightly larger diameter driver it appears to be the same size as the _Bell-Ti Onmyoji v2021_.


----------



## rprodrigues

sfrsfr said:


> I will have the ShoonTH Esep-01Bl next week as well as the highly regarded LBBS, will compare them to Zen LL.



Are you still going to release such a comparison?


----------



## nymz

rprodrigues said:


> Are you still going to release such a comparison?



I can compare it to Zen 2.0 later, but its not the same price bracket..


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Unfortunately, I only have the Bell-Ti 120Ω now; I sold, traded. and/or gifted away all my other Ks over the last few months.
> 
> The *2018 Bell-Ti 32Ω & 120Ω* and *2020 Bell-Ti Onmyoji 30Ω* use the same shell design (molding) and are ever-so-slightly smaller than LBB/LBW/LBS; Bell-Blue; LBBs; and Bell-We.
> 
> I have yet to see the _2021 Bell-Ti Onmyoji v2021 30Ω_ or the _2021 Bell-Ti Plus 30Ω_ to confirm if they are using the same shell design and size but it appears they are even though the Plus has a slightly larger diameter driver it appears to be the same size as the _Bell-Ti Onmyoji v2021_.


Alright, I took a look at the LBBS and the Bell-WE. The differences seems to only be that the WE has 1 vent at left/right/bottom. While the the LBBS has 3 vents right besides each other at left/right (so the WE has a total of 3 vents, while the LBBS has 6 vents). And that connectors on the shells on the WE are more straight while the LBBS are more open. But otherwise identical. So is the Bell-blue this same shell as well? While the Ti is the only one that is different (smaller) between the bells?

(the LBBS and the LBB looks identical to me, besides the color.)


----------



## rprodrigues

nymz said:


> I can compare it to Zen 2.0 later, but its not the same price bracket..



Please, do that. 

I've been looking for my next step from the Monk Lite 120 Ohm and the Zen 2.0 is also under consideration.

Thank you


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> Alright, I took a look at the LBBS and the Bell-WE. The differences seems to only be that the WE has 1 vent at left/right/bottom. While the the LBBS has 3 vents right besides each other at left/right (so the WE has a total of 3 vents, while the LBBS has 6 vents). And that connectors on the shells on the WE are more straight while the LBBS are more open. But otherwise identical. So is the Bell-blue this same shell as well? While the Ti is the only one that is different (smaller) between the bells?
> 
> (the LBBS and the LBB looks identical to me, besides the color.)


Correct, plus a longer stem port.


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Correct, plus a longer stem port.


So....wonder if the QC problem that they seem to have on the ti model, is only limited to that specific shell? While the other bells dont have any particular QC issues? (I havent seen any other QC reports on their other buds.)

I be lying if I said I wasnt interested in the bell-blue after hearing the LBBS.....


----------



## furyossa

nymz said:


> The day someone like Blur uses a shell like LBBS or someone makes a flagship on that shell, I'm insta-buying.
> 
> To everyone on the fence, grab it. Sound is awsome, confort is even better.


Comfort and fit wise, YES, but Bell type of shell are way inferior to MX500 shells when it comes to tuning


----------



## nymz

furyossa said:


> Comfort and fit wise, YES, but Bell type of shell are way inferior to MX500 shells when it comes to tuning



Yes, I meant confort wise. My ears just love LBBS 

Would love to get more into DIY and stuff, to test more, but I have two bricks instead of hands 😂


----------



## nymz

rprodrigues said:


> Please, do that.
> 
> I've been looking for my next step from the Monk Lite 120 Ohm and the Zen 2.0 is also under consideration.
> 
> Thank you



Sure, I can do it next week because I want to use both on RAP5 to be fair. But I'd be crazy to tell you that zen is 4x better than LBBS (costs 4x times more).

My recommendations on bang for your buck: M2S pro (150ohm) > LBBS > M2S pro (stock) > zen 2.0

Quality of sound i need to evaluate on my desktop.


PS: i expect all of this to be irrelevant with my incoming Blurs


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 4, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> So....wonder if the QC problem that they seem to have on the ti model, is only limited to that specific shell? While the other bells dont have any particular QC issues? (I havent seen any other QC reports on their other buds.)
> 
> I be lying if I said I wasnt interested in the bell-blue after hearing the LBBS.....


Yes, concur. It does seem like the QC issues have been with the Bell-Ti series only and our Chinese comrades over on erji.net have intimated that to me as well.

After my nightmare right driver and cable double-whammy failure with the Bell-Ti 120Ω 🤮 (thankfully repaired by Wong @ Blur) I do kind of wish I had bought the slightly cheaper Bell-Blue instead as it had a far more robust and supple cable on it than the fragile thin one that came on my Bell-Ti 120Ω. I was also quite impressed with the sound of the Bell-Blue aka "The Smurfs" except something in the lower treble was slightly "fatiguing" to me though I wouldn't call the Bell Smurf bright, it is still a rather warm earbud. The Smurf has a nice sparkle in the treble. So again I wouldn't categorize it as being bright or even sibilant but rather maybe a bit "excited". I might have adapted to it after a week or so using them; hard to say.

I did finally have the opportunity to listen to both versions of the *2020 - K's Temperament 白铃 Bell-We* *158Ω aka "New White Ling E"*, Standard & Bass Editions, about a month ago and I wasn't that impressed... I would say to either buy the cheaper LBBs or save up for the Bell-Blue instead.


----------



## furyossa

nymz said:


> Yes, I meant confort wise. My ears just love LBBS
> 
> Would love to get more into DIY and stuff, to test more, but I have two bricks instead of hands 😂


Everyone has this problem in the beginning until they get a little into the game.
There will always be a compromise between comfort and better sound, it is up to the users to decide which side to choose. 
Even if you find a pair who has both traits, it doesn't have to mean that someone else will have the same thing


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, concur. It does seem like the QC issues have been with the Bell-Ti series only and our Chinese comrades over on erji.net have intimated that to me as well.
> 
> After my nightmare right driver and cable double failure with the Bell-Ti 120Ω 🤮 I do kinda wish I had bought the slightly cheaper Bell-Blue instead as it had a far more robust and supple cable on it than the fragile thin one that came on my Bell-Ti 120Ω. I was also quite impressed with the sound of the Bell-Blue aka "The Smurfs" except something in the lower treble was slightly "fatiguing" to me though I wouldn't call the Bell Smurf bright, it is still a rather warm earbud. The Smurf has a nice sparkle in the treble. So again I wouldn't categorize it as being bright or even sibilant but rather maybe a bit "excited". I might have adapted to it after a week or so using them; hard to say.
> 
> I did finally have the opportunity to listen to both versions of the *2020 - K's Temperament 白铃 Bell-We* *158Ω aka "New White Ling E"*, Standard & Bass Editions, about a month ago and I wasn't that impressed... I would say to either buy the cheaper LBBs or save up for the Bell-Blue instead.


Yep, Bell-Blue is on my radar. It looks like it has the exact same cable as the LBBS. (except a blue metal chin slider)
Seems the Bell-Blue Aluminium alloy CNC, while the LBBS uses Magnesium Aluminium alloy (according to google translate). So the Bell-Blue should be heavier 





Bell-WE is very dissapointing....




furyossa said:


> Everyone has this problem in the beginning until they get a little into the game.
> There will always be a compromise between comfort and better sound, it is up to the users to decide which side to choose.
> Even if you find a pair who has both traits, it doesn't have to mean that someone else will have the same thing


None of my MX500 buds beats the LBBS in anything besides bass though.


----------



## RikudouGoku (Aug 5, 2021)

Alright, if anyone has the LBB and wants to hear how the LBBS sounds like. You can try this PEQ preset I made (very similar actually...):

Low-shelf: 80hz, Q: 0.6, gain: 3db
Low-shelf 300hz, Q: 0.6, gain: -3.5db
High-shelf: 10 000hz, Q:0.7, gain: 5db
Preamp: -5db


----------



## FranQL (Aug 4, 2021)

In my personal opinion TINGO TG38 (for example) outperforms LBB with a much more natural tonality and true to reality (in my opinion LBB has a metallic timbre similar to the BA timbre and a significant lack even to be a bud in the subbass), Tingo makes any type of music more faithful to the real sound of the instruments themselves. Just for that reason the technicalities in my case go to the background, I cannot ignore it at any time.

I believe that LBB is an adequate value in relation to its price (SQ), but nothing beyond it. He is not a giant's killer.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> None of my MX500 buds beats the LBBS in anything besides bass though.


That's because none of your MX500's use LBBS driver. 
Bell and funnel-shape shells are similar, but funnel-shape shells have a small advantage: they can have a real back vent in addition to the stem / vent.
I transferred all drivers from funnel-shape shells to MX500 for testing purposes and guess what, I never put them back in the stock state,
even if I don't have the best sealing / fit with the MX500 shell.


----------



## Rary (Aug 4, 2021)

Hello everyone!

After almost 2 years of constant lurking i've finally decided to post here.
I started this hobby roughly at the end of 2019 when i bought a bunch of cheap earbuds to replace my old Pioneer. As soon as i've got my first pair of Vidos i knew i couldn't stop there and from that point onward i just kept buying more and more new toys.

I've read every message from this thread (yes, all 3000+ pages) and all posts from DIY Earbuds (2 times).
In the past months i've tested many buds and completed many diy projects and i finally feel comfortable sharing my knowledge.


Last week i listened again to all my collection and i ranked all earbuds from best to worst:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qJ3T10FyvKI-8gAc7169mSr052yoV7EO8RCtbs6G-Do/edit?usp=sharing

I hope this can be helpful to everyone who wants to join this hobby or just needs to buy new stuff 
Feel free to ask me anything, i'd be happy to help.


Current plans:
-19-21 Biofilm (White vido shell + bass hole)
-64ohm full Ti (Furyossa's mx500 rivet mod)
-White Vido high impedence mod (220ohm resistor + refined tuning)

Future plans:
-Black Docomo + white/pink furukawa cable
-14.8mm 40ohm Ti + blue transparent PK shells
-19-21 graphene composite
-19-21 beryllium composite
-19-21 full ti
-Smabat Super One drivers in mx500 shells
-Find a way to properly tune the 400ohm graphene drivers




Spoiler: Just a taste of my collection (only the well labelled part)


----------



## RikudouGoku

FranQL said:


> In my personal opinion TINGO TG38 (for example) outperforms LBB with a much more natural tonality and true to reality (in my opinion LBB has a metallic timbre similar to the BA timbre and a significant lack even to be a bud in the subbass), Tingo makes any type of music more faithful to the real sound of the instruments themselves. Just for that reason the technicalities in my case go to the background, I cannot ignore it at any time.
> 
> I believe that LBB is an adequate value in relation to its price (SQ), but nothing beyond it. He is not a giant's killer.


Thats the LBB, which is not good IMO. The LBB*S* is leagues ahead of the LBB.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

RikudouGoku said:


> Is this the golden driver?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001268432243.html
> Seems to be sold out on their store.
> ...


Hope so. It's what I ordered. Guess we'll see.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Rary said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> After almost 2 years of constant lurking i've finally decided to post here.
> I started this hobby roughly at the end of 2019 when i bought a bunch of cheap earbuds to replace my old Pioneer. As soon as i've got my first pair of Vidos i knew i couldn't stop there and from that point onward i just kept buying more and more new toys.
> ...


Great to see a third ranking lists for buds.


----------



## furyossa

Rary said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> After almost 2 years of constant lurking i've finally decided to post here.
> I started this hobby roughly at the end of 2019 when i bought a bunch of cheap earbuds to replace my old Pioneer. As soon as i've got my first pair of Vidos i knew i couldn't stop there and from that point onward i just kept buying more and more new toys.
> ...


Welcome bro! You have really good collection. Maybe it would be better to post this in DIY Earbuds thread as well, since they are mostly DIY models   
@RikudouGoku what do you think Mr @Rary transferred Smabat Super One drivers in mx500 shells?


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> Welcome bro! You have really good collection. Maybe it would be better to post this in DIY Earbuds thread as well, since they are mostly DIY models
> @RikudouGoku what do you think Mr @Rary transferred Smabat Super One drivers in mx500 shells?


No idea. It doesnt sound good in the Super One bud at least.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> No idea. It doesnt sound good in the Super One bud at least.


You know about 2K peak which you mentioned in your review. Now is probably gone


----------



## vygas

furyossa said:


> You know about 2K peak which you mentioned in your review. Now is probably gone


Fury is right, there is a reason to why nearly all earbuds use MX500 shells, because they're probably one of the best shell designs you can get for an earbud.


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> You know about 2K peak which you mentioned in your review. Now is probably gone


If the bass quantity is the same, it might sound worse due to it being even more bloated then. The 2-3k peak is meant to balance out the bass, if its gone...well, rip.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> If the bass quantity is the same, it might sound worse due to it being even more bloated then. The 2-3k peak is meant to balance out the bass, if its gone...well, rip.


Yes, it would probably be like that if I use "drag 'n' drop" tuning method  But you know me ...


----------



## Rary

furyossa said:


> You know about 2K peak which you mentioned in your review. Now is probably gone


MX500 shells + thick horseshoe + cotton wool fixed the obnoxious 3k peak in the B/G 150ohm drivers...so i have high hopes for those drivers too.



RikudouGoku said:


> If the bass quantity is the same, it might sound worse due to it being even more bloated then. The 2-3k peak is meant to balance out the bass, if its gone...well, rip.


I expect the bass quantity to be lower without the acoustic tube.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Rary said:


> MX500 shells + thick horseshoe + cotton wool fixed the obnoxious 3k peak in the B/G 150ohm drivers...so i have high hopes for those drivers too.
> 
> 
> I expect the bass quantity to be lower without the acoustic tube.









Damn, you actually documented the costs for you? In my case there might be another zero in the sum lol. 
(I certainly dont dare to calculate the costs of my stuff.)


----------



## furyossa

Rary said:


> MX500 shells + thick horseshoe + cotton wool fixed the obnoxious 3k peak in the B/G 150ohm drivers...so i have high hopes for those drivers too.


You just prove my point


----------



## Rary

RikudouGoku said:


> Damn, you actually documented the costs for you? In my case there might be another zero in the sum lol.
> (I certainly dont dare to calculate the costs of my stuff.)


It's the only thing preventing me from buying even more useless stuff. Every time i check Aliexpress i hear my wallet screaming.


----------



## emusic13 (Aug 4, 2021)

I like mx500 shells too 



Spoiler: Mx500 shell


----------



## samandhi

So, I couldn't resist. I saw these and saw that it was a 1 DD and 1 BA bud style. I first saw them on Aliexpress, and also saw the price tag, and decided not for me @ $169. I went to DUNU website and it was actually $10 higher. They have been around since about 2015 according to reviews. Finally I saw them on Amazon for $39, and pulled the trigger on them. I thought they were probably fake or something to that nature being so cheap, and I saw them nowhere else for that price point. They are not! 

So far, I have a positive take on these. You can definitely hear that BA timbre, and anyone that is sensitive to it might want to look elsewhere. But they have really deep bass and good quantity to boot, but is lacking a bit of texture (but not terribly). Overall they are on the warm side, but clear. They are mid forward (especially female vocals), though the bass is larger than that of the typical bud. The 2-4k BA timbre makes them seem bright (but are actually calming down a bit after a few hours of listening), but if you EQ that down you can tell these can be pretty warm (if you want them to be). 

Soundstage is not that good for an open bud, but not claustrophobic either, just intimate. Layering is good, not great. The overall tone is not as accurate as I would have liked because of the BA timbre, but if I take that away, they are not only warm, but it messes up the staging. They have a fixed cable, just like the DUNU Titan 1 (if anyone knows DUNU), which is to say a very springy, thin, rubber(ish) cable. It doesn't seem like it is going to break though, so there is that. I would have never kept them at almost $200, but for $40, they are really nice!

Here are some pictures for your enjoyment:



Spoiler: DUNU Alpha 1


----------



## axhng

K's Earphone is probably one of my favourite earbuds brand now (so far no QC issues yet, fingers crossed). The K64S and LBBS are the 2 earbuds I use the most recently.


----------



## furyossa (Aug 4, 2021)

samandhi said:


> So, I couldn't resist. I saw these and saw that it was a 1 DD and 1 BA bud style. I first saw them on Aliexpress, and also saw the price tag, and decided not for me @ $169. I went to DUNU website and it was actually $10 higher. They have been around since about 2015 according to reviews. Finally I saw them on Amazon for $39, and pulled the trigger on them. I thought they were probably fake or something to that nature being so cheap, and I saw them nowhere else for that price point. They are not!
> 
> So far, I have a positive take on these. You can definitely hear that BA timbre, and anyone that is sensitive to it might want to look elsewhere. But they have really deep bass and good quantity to boot, but is lacking a bit of texture (but not terribly). Overall they are on the warm side, but clear. They are mid forward (especially female vocals), though the bass is larger than that of the typical bud. The 2-4k BA timbre makes them seem bright (but are actually calming down a bit after a few hours of listening), but if you EQ that down you can tell these can be pretty warm (if you want them to be).
> 
> ...


they are too expensive here https://penonaudio.com/dunu-alpha-1.html


----------



## RikudouGoku

Looks like Smabat will send me a pair of the 150ohm gold drivers when they get it back in stock.

Gotta give them respect for that, since I basically killed the sale on their flagship product (Super One).

Fiio on the other hand…well, they can learn a thing or two from Smabat.    

LBBS vs M2S Pro (150ohm gold drivers) round 2?


----------



## rprodrigues

axhng said:


> K's Earphone is probably one of my favourite earbuds brand now (so far no QC issues yet, fingers crossed). The K64S and LBBS are the 2 earbuds I use the most recently.



Only the clear one isn't here. They are all in my rotation set. LBBS is a confort king!


----------



## samandhi

furyossa said:


> they are too expensive here https://penonaudio.com/dunu-alpha-1.html


That's about how much I saw them for just about everywhere, except that one store on Amazon. I suspect they see they have been out a very long time, and aren't selling, so they just want to get rid of them (maybe?)?!


----------



## wskl

rprodrigues said:


> Please, do that.
> 
> I've been looking for my next step from the Monk Lite 120 Ohm and the Zen 2.0 is also under consideration.
> 
> Thank you



Bear in mind that Lee from VE is planning to end the offer of the free RAP5 + Warp Core with the Zen 2.0 SLQ, he hasn't said when, just that it will be *soon*.


----------



## Chessnaudio

axhng said:


> K's Earphone is probably one of my favourite earbuds brand now (so far no QC issues yet, fingers crossed). The K64S and LBBS are the 2 earbuds I use the most recently.


You have nice reviews on your channel. Keep it up


----------



## jao29

RikudouGoku said:


> Alright, guess not.
> 
> "mk2 makes x6 feels more neutral in my opinion.."
> "mk2 is good, but too bassy for me, vocals a bit recessed as the effect, and the bass do bleed to the mids a bit."
> ...


After comparing both the X6 and the mkii’s I find the complete opposite of this statement. 😅 The Willsound mkii makes the X6 sounds veiled, at least to my ears.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> Thats the LBB, which is not good IMO. The LBB*S* is leagues ahead of the LBB.


Most heartedly agree the LBBs is indeed at another whole level.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Rary said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> After almost 2 years of constant lurking i've finally decided to post here.
> I started this hobby roughly at the end of 2019 when i bought a bunch of cheap earbuds to replace my old Pioneer. As soon as i've got my first pair of Vidos i knew i couldn't stop there and from that point onward i just kept buying more and more new toys.
> ...


Welcome to the rabbit hole lurker aka *@Rary* ! It appears you are thoroughly entrenched and just as deep and/or as lost as the rest of us  ! Great list there; I will add your ranking list to the *ƎAЯBUD LINKS *here shortly.


----------



## chinmie

Nool said:


> I recently bought a pair of gen 2 airpods and have also been pretty impressed with their tuning, especially with the upper mids and treble. Usually there's some overshoot or rolloff past 4khz but the airpods are surprisingly consistent.
> 
> Also, putting foams on them makes them pretty bassy, not as much as the X6 but still better than most buds, though resolution seems to suffer a bit. Would recommend.
> 
> ...



The Sabbat Vooplay is also worth considering, I'm using it with donut foams and like it better for music than my Samsung Buds Live (which is not at all bad too). 
I also like the Tronsmart Onyx Ace with foams, recommended it to my audio friend and he like it too. 
both of those also have volume controls

for my favourite earbud TWS solution would be this combo:


i like it so much i got another H185 modded to MMCX and tuned slightly different. 

this one (BT20S Pro) sadly does not have volume controls, but i think Fiio makes similar device with volume


----------



## jrazmar

Hououin Kyouma said:


> If you don't have a 2.5mm balanced port, don't buy it. Don't use any adapter on snow lotus 2.5mm, ever!
> I've tried all snow lotus version, I can give you some quick reviews:
> * 1.0 ver: Balanced, light bass but tight, lush mid, polite treb but still extended enough
> * 1.0 plus: V-shaped, better bass than 1.0-both quantity and quality but mid is recessed, same treb as 1.0
> ...


This is much appreciated. Why can't we use an adapter for SL 2.5mm??? It looks the best among all the Faaeals if one has the source with balanced port. I think I'm gonna try the 1.0+ but also curious now with the Rosemary. How is the mids/treble with it?


----------



## ian91

jrazmar said:


> This is much appreciated. Why can't we use an adapter for SL 2.5mm??? It looks the best among all the Faaeals if one has the source with balanced port. I think I'm gonna try the 1.0+ but also curious now with the Rosemary. How is the mids/treble with it?



Mids are the standout feature of Rosemary for me. Very warm, expressive and forward in their presentation but with no shout.  Haven't listened to it in a few weeks but I don't remember being blown away by treble detail though.


----------



## jrazmar

I can live with a less detailed treble than a shouty mids. That's good to hear then. At least it has an excellent bass and big soundstage according to Kyouma. Thanks. I see you have the Blur White Face PK16. How is the bass on that one? I got a 64ohm Blur from Woody which has a very good mids and treble quality, however it's too forward for my liking and the bass is just ok. I wonder how the White Face sounds for you.


----------



## ian91 (Aug 5, 2021)

jrazmar said:


> I can live with a less detailed treble than a shouty mids. That's good to hear then. At least it has an excellent bass and big soundstage according to Kyouma. Thanks. I see you have the Blur White Face PK16. How is the bass on that one? I got a 64ohm Blur from Woody which has a very good mids and treble quality, however it's too forward for my liking and the bass is just ok. I wonder how the White Face sounds for you.



Quantity of bass is +++, quality of bass is ++ on the White Face. It has the strongest impact of any bud I have tried. It's a relatively warm, intimate, easy listen (provided you're not fatigued by bass in general) and still retains good vocal presence, that are forward but not shouty being warmed by the tremendous bass presence. Treble is actually quite revealing, but never harsh. Imaging is good, as is soundstage.


----------



## jrazmar

Wish I could get my hands on one someday. I was told that Wong is no longer making one. He will do another reiteration but will be using a different 32ohm driver.


----------



## ian91

jrazmar said:


> Wish I could get my hands on one someday. I was told that Wong is no longer making one. He will do another reiteration but will be using a different 32ohm driver.



I wouldn't worry - Wong always seems to be able to iterate well. You might end up getting something even better!


----------



## Hououin Kyouma (Aug 5, 2021)

jrazmar said:


> This is much appreciated. Why can't we use an adapter for SL 2.5mm??? It looks the best among all the Faaeals if one has the source with balanced port. I think I'm gonna try the 1.0+ but also curious now with the Rosemary. How is the mids/treble with it?


I don't know why but using any adapters on snow lotus 2.5mm can make the sound distorded. I've tried 2.5mm --> 3.5 mm SE, 2.5mm --> 6.3 mm, the results are the same: bass bloated into low-mid, mids get muddy, seperation is not good at all... It sounds amazing when I pair it with DAPs/DACs that have 2.5mm balanced port: ES100, Aune M1s  About Rosemary: Mids are thick and warm but still detailed, no shouty. Treb is polite. Treb extension is not strong point of Faaeal but still extended enough
1.0+ is great. I think you should try Rosemary and Iris 2.0 too  If you have DAPs/Dacs supporting 2.5mm balanced port, go for snow lotus 2.5mm balanced! It's the best snow lotus, best treb and maybe the best Faaeal for me!


----------



## nymz

So yesterday I was talking with @Rikudou_Goku about M2S Pro 150ohm vs LBBS.

I've always used M2S pro as over ear with donut foams and he said he couldnt use it like that. When I tried it down, the sound changed so I need to get back to the white board.

Using it down gave me better isolation, less soundstage and air, but the bass kicked in (even more). Ill try to A/B more today, because this changes all.

Had to go to bed yesterday because my mind was blown and got tired in the process. How could it change so much? Damn.


----------



## chinmie

nymz said:


> So yesterday I was talking with @Rikudou_Goku about M2S Pro 150ohm vs LBBS.
> 
> I've always used M2S pro as over ear with donut foams and he said he couldnt use it like that. When I tried it down, the sound changed so I need to get back to the white board.
> 
> ...



your experience is the same with my old Svara then... come to think of it, i tried experimenting with my MX500 shelled buds by wearing them over ears, and it also have similar result: wearing over ear sounded more airy, have less bass projection,
while wearing down would sound more focused (the soundstage), maybe because the difference of the angle between wearing it up and down


----------



## baskingshark

nymz said:


> So yesterday I was talking with @Rikudou_Goku about M2S Pro 150ohm vs LBBS.
> 
> I've always used M2S pro as over ear with donut foams and he said he couldnt use it like that. When I tried it down, the sound changed so I need to get back to the white board.
> 
> ...





chinmie said:


> your experience is the same with my old Svara then... come to think of it, i tried experimenting with my MX500 shelled buds by wearing them over ears, and it also have similar result: wearing over ear sounded more airy, have less bass projection,
> while wearing down would sound more focused (the soundstage), maybe because the difference of the angle between wearing it up and down



Same, over ear fit usually gives less bass cause the transducer is probably further away from the ear (due to the hook pulling it away from the ear canal). Soundstage opens due to the transducer being further away from the ear canal, and also less bass tends to give more perceived air?

Wearing it cable down generally boosts bass for me.

If you wanna get around the same level of bass when using it over ear, you might need to consider using denser foam covers, or even 2 layers of full foams when in the over ear position -> though double foams may tame the treble and microdetails as such.


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> Same, over ear fit usually gives less bass cause the transducer is probably further away from the ear (due to the hook pulling it away from the ear canal). Soundstage opens due to the transducer being further away from the ear canal, and also less bass tends to give more perceived air?
> 
> Wearing it cable down generally boosts bass for me.
> 
> If you wanna get around the same level of bass when using it over ear, you might need to consider using denser foam covers, or even 2 layers of full foams when in the over ear position -> though double foams may tame the treble and microdetails as such.


Exactly, it's basically like when you don't have a seal with iems. You lose a lot of bass, but that will increase your perception of the treble and the soundstage will sound a lot airier.


----------



## rprodrigues

Hououin Kyouma said:


> I don't know why but using any adapters on snow lotus 2.5mm can make the sound distorded. I've tried 2.5mm --> 3.5 mm SE, 2.5mm --> 6.3 mm, the results are the same: bass bloated into low-mid, mids get muddy, seperation is not good at all... It sounds amazing when I pair it with DAPs/DACs that have 2.5mm balanced port: ES100, Aune M1s  About Rosemary: Mids are thick and warm but still detailed, no shouty. Treb is polite. Treb extension is not strong point of Faaeal but still extended enough
> 1.0+ is great. I think you should try Rosemary and Iris 2.0 too  If you have DAPs/Dacs supporting 2.5mm balanced port, go for snow lotus 2.5mm balanced! It's the best snow lotus, best treb and maybe the best Faaeal for me!




It is not expected at all that you get any sound distortion  due to balanced/SE adapters. I will receive my balanced SL in a week or two and I will then test it with adapters.

There is(was?) a balanced Rosemary too. Have you already tested it?


----------



## RikudouGoku

...Why you guys had to vote for the LBBS, everything sounds low-rez now.


----------



## nymz

baskingshark said:


> Same, over ear fit usually gives less bass cause the transducer is probably further away from the ear (due to the hook pulling it away from the ear canal). Soundstage opens due to the transducer being further away from the ear canal, and also less bass tends to give more perceived air?
> 
> Wearing it cable down generally boosts bass for me.
> 
> If you wanna get around the same level of bass when using it over ear, you might need to consider using denser foam covers, or even 2 layers of full foams when in the over ear position -> though double foams may tame the treble and microdetails as such.





RikudouGoku said:


> Exactly, it's basically like when you don't have a seal with iems. You lose a lot of bass, but that will increase your perception of the treble and the soundstage will sound a lot airier.



Yeah, the problem is, I prefer the over ear tuning 🤷 treble head, huh?


----------



## RikudouGoku

nymz said:


> Yeah, the problem is, I prefer the over ear tuning 🤷 treble head, huh?


Probably, since you also liked the Tansio Land.


----------



## nymz

RikudouGoku said:


> Probably, since you also liked the Tansio Land.



Yeah, I love it. Everything sounds dull now 😂


----------



## RikudouGoku

(how I feel right now lol)


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> (how I feel right now lol)



Where is the infamous Scarecrow Yincrow X6?

And the SMABAT M2S Pro???


----------



## RikudouGoku (Aug 5, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Where is the infamous Scarecrow Yincrow X6?
> 
> And the SMABAT M2S Pro???


I still have the LBBS in mind, I literally automatically start comparing the 2.0 to the LBBS on all tracks so far and I havent even heard the LBBS today lol.


----------



## chinmie

I've read a comment on my local audio group that the LBBS is on the same level of SQ with the TO400, the LBBS being more focused on mid high while the TO400 on mids, can anyone who tried both confirm this?


----------



## RikudouGoku

chinmie said:


> I've read a comment on my local audio group that the LBBS is on the same level of SQ with the TO400, the LBBS being more focused on mid high while the TO400 on mids, can anyone who tried both confirm this?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3617#post-16367208

Assuming that the TO400 might be a bit better or close to the Viridis and that the Viridis is close to the EBX21. I say the LBBS will murder it the same way it did with the EBX21.


----------



## Kumonomukou

chinmie said:


> I've read a comment on my local audio group that the LBBS is on the same level of SQ with the TO400, the LBBS being more focused on mid high while the TO400 on mids, can anyone who tried both confirm this?



I could actually use these LBBS comparisons to eliminate tons of options lol, as I wasn't a big fan of K's little black bell at all. They sound average, somewhat veiled to me. They're comfortable with non-tangle cable and that's it.


----------



## RikudouGoku (Aug 5, 2021)

Kumonomukou said:


> I could actually use these LBBS comparisons to eliminate tons of options lol, as I wasn't a big fan of K's little black bell at all. They sound average, somewhat veiled to me. They're comfortable with non-tangle cable and that's it.


Yeah, the LBB is definitely not worth it.

Although If you still got it, you can salvage it with the PEQ I made (simulating the LBBS).

Low-shelf: 80hz, Q: 0.6, gain: 3db
Low-shelf 300hz, Q: 0.6, gain: -3.5db
High-shelf: 10 000hz, Q:0.7, gain: 5db
Preamp: -5db


----------



## chinmie

RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3617#post-16367208
> 
> Assuming that the TO400 might be a bit better or close to the Viridis and that the Viridis is close to the EBX21. I say the LBBS will murder it the same way it did with the EBX21.



i personally try to refrain myself from using extreme positioning that one earphones is a murderously clear winner compared to other one, simply because i always see them as tools, and that they have their own time and situation where they would excel.. even a less sharp sword would perform better than the razor sharp one in certain situation   

what's important to me is their reliability on that given situations. 



Kumonomukou said:


> I could actually use these LBBS comparisons to eliminate tons of options lol, as I wasn't a big fan of K's little black bell at all. They sound average, somewhat veiled to me. They're comfortable with non-tangle cable and that's it.





this is the translated screenshot from that LBBS review


----------



## RikudouGoku

Found a review on the Bell-Blue:



(was a bit scared when I saw "female poison" being mentioned.)






Seems to be on a similar level to the Chaconne. 

https://www.bilibili.com/read/cv5313780


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

RikudouGoku said:


> Found a review on the Bell-Blue:
> 
> (was a bit scared when I saw "female poison" being mentioned.)
> 
> ...


Some of those literal translations....wow.


----------



## RikudouGoku

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Some of those literal translations....wow.


Google translate lol. Maybe someone can give us a better translation?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Some of those literal translations....wow.


Indeed, one major culprit of grandiose verbiage especially seen in the electronics industry (besides over-zealous sales marketing strategies) is simply _language conflict_.

Being one of the last true remnants of the ancient Chinese culture that emphasizes *artistic conception* (*神*), Chinese languages are expressive and unfortunately sometimes translate rather awkwardly into English due to their heavy use of free/separate morphemes. Simply put, Chinese expressions can/may/do come across as being rather corny and flowery, especially in regards to adjectives, as well as attributive and descriptive nouns.

Also, it is important to note that many Chinese characters do hold deeper, more complex meanings (and even stories) that are far too difficult and untimely to translate fully which may compound the awkwardness.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> Found a review on the Bell-Blue:
> 
> (was a bit scared when I saw "female poison" being mentioned.)
> 
> ...


A much better description than mine!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

WoodyLuvr said:


> Welcome to the rabbit hole lurker aka *@Rary* ! It appears you are thoroughly entrenched and just as deep and/or as lost as the rest of us  ! Great list there; I will add your ranking list to the *ƎAЯBUD LINKS *here shortly.


*@Rary *your awesome earbud ranking has been added to *ƎAЯBUD LINKS* !


----------



## Rary

WoodyLuvr said:


> *@Rary *your awesome earbud ranking has been added to *ƎAЯBUD LINKS* !


Thank you.


----------



## RikudouGoku (Aug 5, 2021)

wow, just tried to fix the Bell-WE (bass version) with EQ and it actually worked!


Low-shelf: 80hz, Q: 0.6, Gain: 10db
Low-shelf: 300hz, Q: 0.6, Gain: -5db
High-shelf: 10 000hz, Q: 0,7, Gain: 3db
Preamp: -6db


Since both the Bell-WE and the LBB responded well to EQ. I tried to do the same for the LBBS, except that there was nothing to fix. So instead, I went full on basshead and gave it a:

Low-shelf: 80hz, Q: 1, Gain: 15db
preamp: -15db



(although I say the Bell-WE (bass version) with the EQ sounds better than the basshead boosted LBBS.)
(nvm, the LBBS still sounds better than the Bell-WE even with a 15 db sub-bass boost lol)


----------



## Chessnaudio

RikudouGoku said:


> wow, just tried to fix the Bell-WE (bass version) with EQ and it actually worked!
> 
> 
> Low-shelf: 80hz, Q: 0.6, Gain: 10db
> ...


Does it actually make it better, or just alters it to make it more bass friendly?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Chessnaudio said:


> Does it actually make it better, or just alters it to make it more bass friendly?


The Bell-WE clearly sounds better with that PEQ, literally cleans up the bloated mid-bass and gives it more air and micro details with the upper-treble elevation and also makes it more fun with the sub-bass boost which does not degrade the quality at all. 

The LBBS still sounds better even with a CRAZY amount of sub-bass boost though, it can handle up to 25 (!!!) db sub-bass before the quality drops like a stone lol.


As for the more "reasonable" 15db sub-bass boost above on the LBBS, it obviously has more bass and sounds better with bass tracks (hip-hop, EDM, trance, etc) but otherwise I say the stock tuning is still the best.

Ranking wise, the Bell-WE is probably S- while the LBBS is at S with the presets I posted above.


----------



## Luis1316

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Some of those literal translations....wow.






As a conclusion he just says that he preffers blue bell over chaconne because its smaller and more comfortable. The details in the treble region are quite similar between both of them; there's more clarity in the high mids on blue bell; a bit more bass on the blue bell.
Overall, it seems Blue bell highlights the vocals and especially female voices.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Can't believe the sound I can get from a combo like this...



Talk about a setup that disappears in your pocket. Haven't been listening to music much, lately. Lots of podcasts to catch up on. And, in those respects, I really do think the Traceless do it better. Just a little too much bass here and it creates a little boxiness. It's still good; Traceless does it better.


----------



## Au13

RikudouGoku said:


> Yincrow RW-100 VS Apple Airpods 2019
> (Borrowed the Airpods from my little sister)
> 
> Setup:
> ...


Glad to see a recent talk about AirPods, they’re way better than they get credit for. Even if people don’t like Apple billions of dollars in R&D still translates to something for sound


----------



## samandhi (Aug 5, 2021)

.

At early stages, and with not a ton of listening time on any one bud; so far my ranking of the ones I have are as follows (this will most likely change as I get more time with them and what-not:

Moondrop Chaconne
Smabat ST10S Black & Gold
Dunu Alpha 1
Smabat M2S Pro (stock driver)
Apple Classic Earbuds (2nd Gen)


----------



## n00b

samandhi said:


> .
> 
> At early stages, and with not a ton of listening time on any one bud; so far my ranking of the ones I have are as follows (this will most likely change as I get more time with them and what-not:
> 
> ...


what genres do you listen to and what is your preferred sound signature/tonality?


----------



## samandhi

n00b said:


> what genres do you listen to and what is your preferred sound signature/tonality?


I listen pretty much everything except classical (though I did download an MQA song to test out, and it does sound very good). But, if I had to say which I listen to most, it would probably be; prog rock, metal, rock, classic rock, hard rock, 80's (of pretty much anything including pop), and some pop, and R&B. But, if it has a great beat, I will listen. I have some bluegrass, rap, etc...

I like tight and quick bass over quantity, and I don't have to have a lot of quantity, but if it is tight and fast AND has quantity all the better (think a good planar). Overall I think I tend to gravitate to natural, but detailed. Analytical, but fun also. I don't like where manufacturers use too much 3k and 8k to give the illusion of "sparkle". To me this shows that the treble driver(s) is/are not good enough to tune the right way IMO. Plus I am sensitive to it. Technicalities and clarity are a big part of my likes... I prefer wide soundstage, but can live without it as long as the layering is there. Nothing worse than having great bass, and mids, and treble, only to have a song sound so congested that you can't pick anything out from it.

One of the reasons that the Chaconne is in the lead (for now) is that I find they have all of this in spades... They are so clear but not boosted in any one area, nor fatiguing. If I had to give them a grade (atm) such as @RikudouGoku does, I would give them an A+. Add about 4dB to 31Hz and 2dB 64Hz (on a simple 10 band), and they become S+ IMO. I would put them up there, in sound quality alone with my $1k iBasso IT07 (and in some ways they are even better). Hint: I like those so much that I swear that they tuned them JUST for me... 

I don't listen at volumes that blow your ears out. I can listen for a very long time and not damage my hearing at the volume I normally listen at. But, I also don't listen at volumes so quiet that it puts you to sleep (unless that is what I am going for). I believe that every (decent) set has a "sweet spot" for volume. Some "sweet spots" are definitely louder/quieter than on others. One just has to find it!

How about you?


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> Found a review on the Bell-Blue:
> 
> (was a bit scared when I saw "female poison" being mentioned.)
> 
> ...




"Female poison" in CHIFI terminology = boosted upper mids/lower treble = potentially shouty/banshee tuning

Better go in with your eyes (or rather, ears) open!


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> "Female poison" in CHIFI terminology = boosted upper mids/lower treble = potentially shouty/banshee tuning
> 
> Better go in with your eyes (or rather, ears) open!


I came to that same conclusion...


----------



## jrazmar (Aug 5, 2021)

rprodrigues said:


> It is not expected at all that you get any sound distortion  due to balanced/SE adapters. I will receive my balanced SL in a week or two and I will then test it with adapters.
> 
> There is(was?) a balanced Rosemary too. Have you already tested it?


Kindly report back here after you test it with the adapter. I'm still curious if it works or not. Finally pulled the trigger with the Iris 2.0 and K64S. Hope they sound good with what I have. Currently rocking the Seahf AWK F150c attached to my Pixel 4A 5G via the CX-Pro 31993 playing Tidal Master thru UPP. The Ovidius B1 is coming so I'm very excited to hear what they can offer.


----------



## rprodrigues

@jrazmar 

I will report back. 

K64 is a good set (for my taste). I ordered Iris 2.0 and Ancestor some days ago.

How is the F150c?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

I somehow missed this *excellent earbud review* of the Venture Electronic (VE) Sun DICE posted by *@ClieOS*.


----------



## Ronion

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Can't believe the sound I can get from a combo like this...
> 
> 
> 
> Talk about a setup that disappears in your pocket. Haven't been listening to music much, lately. Lots of podcasts to catch up on. And, in those respects, I really do think the Traceless do it better. Just a little too much bass here and it creates a little boxiness. It's still good; Traceless does it better.


I cannot wait to get my cable.   Should be here in the next 2 to 30 weeks.   I should be getting the M0 shell somewhere in that same timeframe and I’m throwing the 40 Ohm driver in it.  I’d prefer to run it balanced, but I’ll probably just do the 2V mode on my Qudelix Using the M2s pro cable.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 6, 2021)

jrazmar said:


> I can live with a less detailed treble than a shouty mids. That's good to hear then. At least it has an excellent bass and big soundstage according to Kyouma. Thanks. I see you have the Blur White Face PK16. How is the bass on that one? I got a 64ohm Blur from Woody which has a very good mids and treble quality, however it's too forward for my liking and the bass is just ok. I wonder how the White Face sounds for you.


That forwardness may not be as "forward" as you think but rather your reaction to a rather resolute and detailed signature. The Blur House Sound tuning can be a bit confusing and quite overwhelming at first. Usually taking many experienced audiophiles some time to adjust to.... as long as a few weeks even (like in my case when I first listened to Blurs). Use your other earbuds for a solid week or so and then go back to the Blurs, give them a few days and that forwardness may have retreated as your ears and brain better learn to process the highly detailed tuning.


----------



## jrazmar

rprodrigues said:


> @jrazmar
> 
> I will report back.
> 
> ...



The F150c is kind of like a discovery earbud for me. It's on the cheap side but the sound is classy. I bought it after reading here in HF like years ago and just did not spend enough time to listen to it because I was so engrossed with other hyped earphones that I also bought to try like the Zen 1 & 2, Liebesleid and Turandot. Finally when I got tired of those earphones, I tried the F150c thinking I can just do casual listening in the office then throw it in my bag. However, a revelation happened to me and for the first time, I felt happy enjoying my music. It actually put a smile on my face. I'm not good with words specially the technical stuff but it is just natural and open sounding. It has enough bass, highs and mids and soundstage and separation for the music that I listen to. Maybe it's the tonality and how comforting it sounds like speakers instead of like earphones. In short, I like the sound signature. If I can wish for it to improve more is for the vocals to come out just a little upfront. Not too forward because I hate shouty sounds but maybe 10% more present. Even without it, I am a happy camper. 

Take note though that I am listening to it via a USB DAC dongle which for me greatly affected the overall sound. There is a very comprehensive review of USB audio dongles by Mr. Andy that you can find here: https://andyaudiovault.com/donglemadness/. He used to have a dedicated thread here at HF but something controversial happened that made him removed all his posts on that thread. He is a good guy and he gave me a totally new perspective of how some of these inexpensive dongles can help define and refine the sound of our audio equipment. Just using a smartphone with the dongle is like using a mid tier dedicated DAP. Sorry for the very long reply. 

For the K64, it's actually K64S. I think the standard K64 is OFC and the K64S that I bought is using 6U-PET plug. I don't know if it's better but that's what I chose.


----------



## jrazmar

WoodyLuvr said:


> That forwardness may not be as "forward" as you think but rather your reaction to a rather resolute and detailed signature. The Blur House Sound tuning can be a bit confusing and quite overwhelming at first. Usually taking many experienced audiophiles some time to adjust to.... as long as a few weeks even (like in my case when I first listened to Blurs). Use your other earbuds for a solid week or so and then go back to the Blurs, give them a few days and that forwardness may have retreated as your ears and brain better learn to process the highly detailed tuning.


I had the Liebesleid which is super detailed and still have the Turandot which tends to be aggressive up top. Who knows I may learn to like the Blur in due time.


----------



## rprodrigues (Aug 6, 2021)

jrazmar said:


> The F150c is kind of like a discovery earbud for me. It's on the cheap side but the sound is classy. I bought it after reading here in HF like years ago and just did not spend enough time to listen to it because I was so engrossed with other hyped earphones that I also bought to try like the Zen 1 & 2, Liebesleid and Turandot. Finally when I got tired of those earphones, I tried the F150c thinking I can just do casual listening in the office then throw it in my bag. However, a revelation happened to me and for the first time, I felt happy enjoying my music. It actually put a smile on my face. I'm not good with words specially the technical stuff but it is just natural and open sounding. It has enough bass, highs and mids and soundstage and separation for the music that I listen to. Maybe it's the tonality and how comforting it sounds like speakers instead of like earphones. In short, I like the sound signature. If I can wish for it to improve more is for the vocals to come out just a little upfront. Not too forward because I hate shouty sounds but maybe 10% more present. Even without it, I am a happy camper.
> 
> Take note though that I am listening to it via a USB DAC dongle which for me greatly affected the overall sound. There is a very comprehensive review of USB audio dongles by Mr. Andy that you can find here: https://andyaudiovault.com/donglemadness/. He used to have a dedicated thread here at HF but something controversial happened that made him removed all his posts on that thread. He is a good guy and he gave me a totally new perspective of how some of these inexpensive dongles can help define and refine the sound of our audio equipment. Just using a smartphone with the dongle is like using a mid tier dedicated DAP. Sorry for the very long reply.
> 
> For the K64, it's actually K64S. I think the standard K64 is OFC and the K64S that I bought is using 6U-PET plug. I don't know if it's better but that's what I chose.




Thank you, dude!


I'm looking for cans like buds (soundwise, off course). Currently, I'm interested in F150c, hp150, and HE150.

I was about to order the zen LL but I'm giving up due to a fews reasons (overpriced, plastic shells, weird cable, poor capabilities with some tracks,...).

Mr. Andy is really a very nice guy whose  work regarding dongles is just amazing! I know him from some groups on Facebook. As a lot of guys here, he deserves my respect.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Faaeal Iris 2.0 review: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/faaeal-iris-2-0.25338/reviews#review-26452

Rank: A+

Essentially like an Yincrow X6 with less bass and warmer tonality.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Rankings for the other irises:

Ancestor = A
Grey = A-


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> Thank you, dude!
> 
> 
> I'm looking for cans like buds (soundwise, off course). Currently, I'm interested in *F150c, hp150, and HE150*.
> ...


I'm always interested in these. If you have a chance, buy 2 pairs of HE150. My next order will be HP150s. From my experience, every 150ohm driver I tried had great stock tuning.


----------



## RikudouGoku

*YINCROW X6 TRUE UPGRADE!!!*

Yeah, you heard me. The true upgrade for the X6 has finally been found! It is by taking the K´s LBBS and applying this PEQ preset:


Low-shelf: 80hz, Q: 1, Gain: 15db
Low-shelf: 250hz, Q: 0.6, Gain: 2db
High-shelf: 7500hz, Q: 1, Gain: 1db
Preamp: -15db

With this preset, I say the tonally gets to like 99,99% of the X6. I went as far as listening to both buds (L = LBBS and R = X6, and vice versa) at the same time to confirm this.

Same ranking as the stock LBBS (S+), technicalities is a step down from the stock tuning, but it more than makes up for it with the tonality.


----------



## emusic13

Anyone going to CanJam?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

emusic13 said:


> Anyone going to CanJam?


SoCal? I plan to go as of now.


----------



## samandhi

Ain't it da' truph?


----------



## emusic13

miserybeforethemusic said:


> SoCal? I plan to go as of now.


Nice! Im planning to bring some of my top buds


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

emusic13 said:


> Nice! Im planning to bring some of my top buds


Think I'll bring the foam-overed Smabats. Figure I'll have been able to go through the other drivers/tuning filters in time and can bring a combo that really shows off the Qudelix 5K. That, the SR25, and the Dunu IEMs will probably make for a really versatile demo setup (both at booths and among the crowd).

What're you considering bringing along?


----------



## boltrane

RikudouGoku said:


> *YINCROW X6 TRUE UPGRADE!!!*
> 
> Yeah, you heard me. The true upgrade for the X6 has finally been found! It is by taking the K´s LBBS and applying this PEQ preset:
> 
> ...


Is this a preset for k’s lbbs that makes them sound like x6? I thought k’s lbbs were a class above x6…


----------



## emusic13

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Think I'll bring the foam-overed Smabats. Figure I'll have been able to go through the other drivers/tuning filters in time and can bring a combo that really shows off the Qudelix 5K. That, the SR25, and the Dunu IEMs will probably make for a really versatile demo setup (both at booths and among the crowd).
> 
> What're you considering bringing along?


For now, a few Newbsound and a Zen. Will bring my Tera and a Hisound dap too


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Think I'll bring the foam-overed Smabats. Figure I'll have been able to go through the other drivers/tuning filters in time and can bring a combo that really shows off the Qudelix 5K. That, the SR25, and the Dunu IEMs will probably make for a really versatile demo setup (both at booths and among the crowd).
> 
> What're you considering bringing along?





emusic13 said:


> For now, a few Newbsound and a Zen. Will bring my Tera and a Hisound dap too


And me, you could bring me...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> And me, you could bring me...


Might could...let's discuss offline.


----------



## jao29

Finally got my Iris Ancestor. Not a fan of these. Generic sound quality. Might have to burn them in first, but so far these aren’t my cup of tea.


----------



## RikudouGoku

boltrane said:


> Is this a preset for k’s lbbs that makes them sound like x6? I thought k’s lbbs were a class above x6…


Yes, tonality becomes the same as the X6 but with its better technicalities. Thus, a true upgrade over the X6 that otherwise doesnt seem to exist.


----------



## ian91

RikudouGoku said:


> Yes, tonality becomes the same as the X6 but with its better technicalities. Thus, a true upgrade over the X6 that otherwise doesnt seem to exist.








Chuck 'X6' Norris says this is "all him..no PEQ required".

Ofcourse I'm kidding, glad you found that upgrade. Might have to look into the LBBS.


----------



## jao29

RikudouGoku said:


> Yes, tonality becomes the same as the X6 but with its better technicalities. Thus, a true upgrade over the X6 that otherwise doesnt seem to exist.


Willsound mkii and Wong’s Blur earbuds are waving hello at you. Lol


----------



## RikudouGoku

jao29 said:


> Willsound mkii and Wong’s Blur earbuds are waving hello at you. Lol


Not interested in more buds atm.


----------



## Ronion

RikudouGoku said:


> Not interested in more buds atm.


Says everyone in this thread… then a month later we say “hey, I got new buds that ____________.”😂


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Ronion said:


> Says everyone in this thread… then a month later we say “hey, I got new buds that ____________.”😂


We're returning to the same pitches they used to give in early 90s commercials.

Cue Vivaldi's Four Seasons..._ahem_...
_What do you get for the earbud enthusiast who has it all? This season, show your love with K's commemorative successor to the LittleBell. Presenting the Medium-Small Bell, with a hand-polished jewel-grade finish and commemorative foams that include the anniversary of your chronic addiction to earbuds. Aren't you worth it? Isn't _she_ worth it? The K's Medium-Small Bell. Make it a Season to Remember™_


----------



## Dany1

I thought i had my mind set on M2s pro. But now after seeing review on the LBBS, i'm having a hard time deciding between the both. lol


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Dany1 said:


> I thought i had my mind set on M2s pro. But now after seeing review on the LBBS, i'm having a hard time deciding between the both. lol


Welcome to the hobby hahaha. I'd say take a look at your budget and the time you've got to spend on either or both. I've got a decent backlog of stuff I'd like to try; so much so that I keep forgetting to go back and listen to things. Take me as a cautionary tale, if you will


----------



## nymz

Dany1 said:


> I thought i had my mind set on M2s pro. But now after seeing review on the LBBS, i'm having a hard time deciding between the both. lol



If you just want to grab and go, not care about changing drivers or cables etc, just go LBBS.

No wrong answers between them.

Whats your source and how do you like your bass?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Dany1 said:


> I thought i had my mind set on M2s pro. But now after seeing review on the LBBS, i'm having a hard time deciding between the both. lol


I say the LBBS is the better value, especially since you can use EQ to turn it into an X6 upgrade.


----------



## boltrane

Dany1 said:


> I thought i had my mind set on M2s pro. But now after seeing review on the LBBS, i'm having a hard time deciding between the both. lol


I noticed that shopee has the lbbs for $44 which seems a better deal than $59 on aliexpress, but not sure about shipping (even though it’s the same seller on both)

https://shopee.sg/Ksearphone-Bell-L...lat-Earplugs-i.66630848.7763814482?position=0

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002442599536.html


----------



## axhng

boltrane said:


> I noticed that shopee has the lbbs for $44 which seems a better deal than $59 on aliexpress, but not sure about shipping (even though it’s the same seller on both)
> 
> https://shopee.sg/Ksearphone-Bell-L...lat-Earplugs-i.66630848.7763814482?position=0
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002442599536.html


that's quite normal actually. Shopee is usually cheaper than Aliexpress almost all the time which is why I mostly try to wait till items are available there before buying. Their shipping is usually more consistent and faster too based on my own experience with both platforms. I got my LBBS from JieTu from Shopee.sg. Oh, and not to mention they usually have some coupons too.


----------



## baskingshark

Dany1 said:


> I thought i had my mind set on M2s pro. But now after seeing review on the LBBS, i'm having a hard time deciding between the both. lol



*Haha the correct headfi answer is to get both!*


But seriously, I skipped the LBBS cause of the non detachable cable, just my personal practice not to get anything ~ $50 that has non detachable components, as it is a potential source of failure down the line, I had a few IEMs which were non detachable become white elephants after the cable died. Not to mention I sometimes wanna use balanced/aftermarket cables or use BT adapters with it.

M2S Pro is tunable as these various factors change the sound signature:
- aftermarket dampers
- aftermarket drivers - 150 ohm driver seems to be popular amongst the folk here
- full foams versus donut foams versus silicone cover versus double foams in various permutations
- wearing cable down or over ear
- different cables (if you are a cable believer).

So potentially the M2S Pro has a whole myriad of tunable options to play with.


----------



## Ronion

I’m a huge M2s pro fan at this point.  I got it on sale and I’d say it’s easily worth its price based on its ability to be tuned.  I even bought the M0 shell just to have something to play around with and now(as of today) the 14mm driver just for fun.  Just to see what small drivers feel like on them and how the sound of the fiber driver is.  One of my favorite over ear headphones uses similar materials for the diaphragm and they are a bang for the buck champ.  Right now m M2s Pro have the 150Ohm drivers with a wide open bass port and it blows my mind.  I literally fall asleep to this bud every. Single. Night.  No matter what genre I listen to, I feel like I’m getting every sound available with a ton of spaciousness.  I hike, play frisbee, and walk the dog without a hitch.  These do it for me.  I run them off of a Little Bear b4x and its battery life is the biggest downside.  My FiiO A5 technology runs them better, but I love the unique character of the B4-X.  
I’ve never heard the other Buds, but I don’t think these would let you down.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Decided to go half-foams (thick) on the Monk Lite SPC since it looks like another sleeping session has led to my orange full foam (lite) going AWOL. I really wasn't that mean. Hope it decides to come back. Anywho, I really like what this does to the tonality on some Breaths - _Lined In Silver_. Stretches things out a bit (almost makes staging hyper-diffused), leaving bass predominately in the background and bringing the mids more to the surface than they already are.

In writing, this sounds like a recipe for disaster. In practice, however, I find that the feeling of being underwater and just _enveloped_ in the sound like you get here. Since there's not a whole bunch of sub-bass material here as is, an album like _Lined In Silver _seems to have its overall...soul...amplified in the track. It's a similar vibe I get to a Deftones album played on spacious open-backs.

I'm definitely a fan of this 

5K proves, yet again, that it's more than up to the task. Great thing, too. The B4-X is out of juice and I can't find the charger...Should probably dig that up so I can finish the Burson OPAMP review tomorrow...


----------



## Ronion

@miserybeforethemusic, I’m not sure if you have a dog, but mine has taken to eating the foams off my ear buds.  My last dog (the one in my profile pic) ate a couple IEMs and about $100 cash(not to mention the wallet it was in), I suppose this is an improvement….


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Ronion said:


> @miserybeforethemusic, I’m not sure if you have a dog, but mine has taken to eating the foams off my ear buds.  My last dog (the one in my profile pic) ate a couple IEMs and about $100 cash(not to mention the wallet it was in), I suppose this is an improvement….


Yep, I've got an Aussie. She's a good girl and doesn't really go for that sorta stuff. More likely the bed ate them, but I do need to keep a better eye out for 'em when that happens.


----------



## baskingshark

Ronion said:


> @miserybeforethemusic, I’m not sure if you have a dog, but mine has taken to eating the foams off my ear buds.  My last dog (the one in my profile pic) ate a couple IEMs and about $100 cash(not to mention the wallet it was in), I suppose this is an improvement….



My family had a white Japanese spitz previously, he went to dog heaven a few years ago. He loved to chew cables and chargers. Had to recable a few IEMs cause of that (at that time, most IEMs were non detachable). He even chewed and destroyed a Beats IEM shell, but haha the loss of a Beats gear is no big loss to the audiophile hobby so I wasn't angry. Thankfully there wasn't beryllium hype at that point in time, if not the spitz would have gotten beryllium poisoning LOL.


----------



## Ronion

I thought you said you had an Aussie before!  My memory has been a mess for the past year.  Great dogs!  Watson has several Aussie friends.  He’s a Shetland Sheepdog and they seem to tuned into a similar wavelength in general.  

Sorry for the OT.  I shouldn’t bring up the subject of dogs.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Ronion said:


> I thought you said you had an Aussie before!  My memory has been a mess for the past year.  Great dogs!  Watson has several Aussie friends.  He’s a Shetland Sheepdog and they seem to tuned into a similar wavelength in general.
> 
> Sorry for the OT.  I shouldn’t bring up the subject of dogs.


Don't think anybody's going to fault the occasional segue, especially if it somehow sparks pooch-inspired earbuds shots


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Aug 8, 2021)

Tonight's follow-up material. It's so crazy how well-recorded this album sounds on the half-foamed Monk Lites. Bass even has a nice punch when it needs to come into the picture:



Spoiler: If you care to listen :)


----------



## DBaldock9

Using my new Impact Audio Cables (Custom 4-ft 4-strand Type 6 Copper Litz Balanced Eidolic 2.5mm TRRS Plug -to- Eidolic MMCX) cable, and enjoying my Homemade Beryllium 600-Ω, Earbuds w/Metal housing.


----------



## imacaverage

It's amazing how the Yinman 600 sounds with the maximum gain from the iFi micro iDSD Black Label ... Simphonio Dragon 3 loses in all respects: detail, bass depth, stage width ... but at the same time, with less gain, the Yinman 600 is even close doesn't fit Dragon 3
iFi micro iDSD Black Label at maximum gain delivers 1560 mW into 64 ohms, which is certainly a lot for a portable source


----------



## theresanarc

Any new budget bargains come out in the last half-year? I've tried so many over the ears but the comfort and solid sound quality of Qian39s still have them on top for me, gonna just order 3 more pairs and call it a day for the next while most likely.


----------



## Ronion

Some of the best bargains I know of mentioned in this thread are the Yincrow X6, the RY4S plus, the Cat Ear Mimi (with thick or double foams for me), and the Tingo TG-38S.


----------



## digititus

baskingshark said:


> But seriously, I skipped the LBBS cause of the non detachable cable, just my personal practice not to get anything ~ $50 that has non detachable components


Jack Ma will be sending you some store coupons soon


----------



## ian91

Ronion said:


> Some of the best bargains I know of mentioned in this thread are the Yincrow X6, the RY4S plus, the Cat Ear Mimi (with thick or double foams for me), and the Tingo TG-38S.



Out of interest, do you have a link to some thick foams? Looking at pictures of ones that claim to be thick, don't actually look any thicker in depth or density than my others.

Thanks for any help on this


----------



## emusic13

theresanarc said:


> Any new budget bargains come out in the last half-year? I've tried so many over the ears but the comfort and solid sound quality of Qian39s still have them on top for me, gonna just order 3 more pairs and call it a day for the next while most likely.


Monk Go is a nice bargain.


Spoiler: Gogogo!


----------



## nymz

ian91 said:


> Out of interest, do you have a link to some thick foams? Looking at pictures of ones that claim to be thick, don't actually look any thicker in depth or density than my others.
> 
> Thanks for any help on this



I use hiegi foams, they are thicker than most.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

ian91 said:


> Out of interest, do you have a link to some thick foams? Looking at pictures of ones that claim to be thick, don't actually look any thicker in depth or density than my others.
> 
> Thanks for any help on this





nymz said:


> I use hiegi foams, they are thicker than most.


Concur. Hiegi and Daiso are thick and of good quality. Personally all I will use now.


----------



## ian91

nymz said:


> I use hiegi foams, they are thicker than most.





WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur. Hiegi and Daiso are thick and of good quality. Personally all I will use now.



Thanks both!


----------



## chinmie

ian91 said:


> Out of interest, do you have a link to some thick foams? Looking at pictures of ones that claim to be thick, don't actually look any thicker in depth or density than my others.
> 
> Thanks for any help on this





nymz said:


> I use hiegi foams, they are thicker than most.



concur on the Hiegi, those are one of the thicker and more consistent sounding foams compared to no brand foams. 

even thicker than the Hiegi, if you can find them is this Daiso store foams


----------



## ian91

chinmie said:


> concur on the Hiegi, those are one of the thicker and more consistent sounding foams compared to no brand foams.
> 
> even thicker than the Hiegi, if you can find them is this Daiso store foams



My current buds - MX + PK shelled - all fit in my ear with very little extra room to spare (I think I have small ears), but it would be interesting to experiment to see what affect it has on signature with thick foams if they stay in place.

Thanks for the guidance


----------



## WoodyLuvr

ian91 said:


> My current buds - MX + PK shelled - all fit in my ear with very little extra room to spare (I think I have small ears), but it would be interesting to experiment to see what affect it has on signature with thick foams if they stay in place.
> 
> Thanks for the guidance


I too have small ears and prefer PK over MX any day.  I have had trouble with silicon rings and double foams (full + donut) on some MX and large "Other Variant' shelled earbuds but have yet to run into a problem with either only the Hiegi or the slightly thicker Daiso cushions on any of those earbuds.


----------



## ian91

WoodyLuvr said:


> I too have small ears and prefer PK over MX any day.  I have had trouble with silicon rings and double foams (full + donut) on some MX and large "Other Variant' shelled earbuds but have yet to run into a problem with either only the Hiegi or the slightly thicker Daiso cushions on any of those earbuds.



Thanks Woody, that's helpful. Makes committing to the purchase a bit easier. The PK fits my ear like a glove. With the MX there's more pressure but that does mean I can seat it whatever angle I want and it will stay there.


----------



## Ronion (Aug 8, 2021)

ian91 said:


> Out of interest, do you have a link to some thick foams? Looking at pictures of ones that claim to be thick, don't actually look any thicker in depth or density than my others.
> 
> Thanks for any help on this


HeiGi are the ones I’m using.  Penon has them cheaper than Amazon.

I never knew Daiso had Earbud Foams!!!!  I used to love Daiso stores.  There’s one not too far from me


----------



## FranQL

DBaldock9 said:


> Using my new Impact Audio Cables (Custom 4-ft 4-strand Type 6 Copper Litz Balanced Eidolic 2.5mm TRRS Plug -to- Eidolic MMCX) cable, and enjoying my Homemade Beryllium 600-Ω, Earbuds w/Metal housing.



A combo like this deserves a photograph, of course!


----------



## rprodrigues

DBaldock9 said:


> Using my new Impact Audio Cables (Custom 4-ft 4-strand Type 6 Copper Litz Balanced Eidolic 2.5mm TRRS Plug -to- Eidolic MMCX) cable, and enjoying my Homemade Beryllium 600-Ω, Earbuds w/Metal housing.



Could you show us the set (cables + buds)?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

_Wow_, what a fantastic earbud album!




Seems like it's purpose-built for the Monk Lite SPC this morning  Could use more sub-bass, so bit the bullet and did a thing:



Mmmm that's better. Makes the mids_ the slightest bit _syrupy/thick, but in a musical way that really helps make up for the FR shortcomings of this earbud. So far, this is probably the more coherent signature. Treble is fantastic. Has a tendency to sparkle, but for the most part stays very tame. Stuff like piano and strings sound phenomenal on these.


----------



## DBaldock9

FranQL said:


> A combo like this deserves a photograph, of course!





rprodrigues said:


> Could you show us the set (cables + buds)?



New Impact Audio Cables 4-strand Type 6 Copper Litz Balanced cable and Homemade Beryllium 600-Ω Metal Earbuds -
.



.
.
Assembly of left earbud -
.


----------



## FranQL

Great work !!!! also you have not spared anything for these !!!!


----------



## siderak

RikudouGoku said:


> Not interested in more buds atm.


Good luck with that!


----------



## RikudouGoku

siderak said:


> Good luck with that!


hahah, yeah. We see how long it lasts.   

(think I said I was done with getting more iems....like 20 iems ago hahaha.)


----------



## rprodrigues

RikudouGoku said:


> hahah, yeah. We see how long it lasts.
> 
> (think I said I was done with getting more iems....like 20 iems ago hahaha.)



Around 20 buds here and still counting... 
Two sidegrades have just been ordered (HP150 and FC150C) among some more stuff for DIY... It (almost) never stops.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Aug 8, 2021)

rprodrigues said:


> Around 20 buds here and still counting...
> Two sidegrades have just been ordered (HP150 and FC150C) among some more stuff for DIY... It (almost) never stops.


To think I must have gotten it off easy (so far) with a small handful. Definitely counting my blessings 


_Aphex Twin - Syro_​
Before you mention it, yep, one of those wire runs has a snip through it. Oops. Hope those other cables show up soon.

Don't know how he does it, but Mr. James does stuff in the stereo space that defies the laws of (recording) physics. I'm sure this waveform is pretty popular by now:





No, that's not a photoshop. Yes, it's mildly creepy. He's still a genius for figuring out how to do that in the first place.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'm sure this waveform is pretty popular by now:
> 
> 
> No, that's not a photoshop. Yes, it's mildly creepy. He's still a genius for figuring out how to do that in the first place.


I don't know what you are talking about??? All I see above is a simple waveform like this:


----------



## Ronion

Looks like the Daiso in California does not carry them nor can you order them from their online shop.  The lack of a strong earbud culture in the USA 🇺🇸 strikes again!  
On the brights side, my VE Zen Lite have cleared customs and they are in California \m/
When I was a child and traveling with my grandfather, as we approached our destination he would always say “what did the dog say after its tail was docked?” Dog: ”It won’t be long now.”


----------



## samandhi

RikudouGoku said:


> hahah, yeah. We see how long it lasts.
> 
> (think I said I was done with getting more iems....like 20 iems ago hahaha.)





rprodrigues said:


> Around 20 buds here and still counting...
> Two sidegrades have just been ordered (HP150 and FC150C) among some more stuff for DIY... It (almost) never stops


I know what you mean. I now have these on the way   :
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001657660869.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.37f04c4df82t7U
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002100380704.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.37f04c4df82t7U

After these I am done for a while.


----------



## RikudouGoku

samandhi said:


> I know what you mean. I now have these on the way   :
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001657660869.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.37f04c4df82t7U
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002100380704.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.37f04c4df82t7U
> 
> After these I am done for a while.


wow, thats a nice haul.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Oh my.



M2s sounds like a veritable behemoth at the moment. Using the Line Out from my Monolith THX 788 to feed the B4-X. Still on the stock drivers and stock tuning filters. These guys just love tubes and metal and right now they're chewing through Dream Theater's _A Dramatic Turn of Events_. Will have to give them some proper Portnoy to chew on later, but this is one punchy combo. Decent amount of wind behind the kick, too. That cello on _Far From Heaven_ is bone-chilling.


----------



## rprodrigues

samandhi said:


> I know what you mean. I now have these on the way   :
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001657660869.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.37f04c4df82t7U
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002100380704.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.37f04c4df82t7U
> 
> After these I am done for a while.


Wow!

Rw200 is a god set. It is my best set. Pricewise, it's my current upper limit.


----------



## emusic13

LCP sounds so good


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Oh my.
> 
> 
> 
> M2s sounds like a veritable behemoth at the moment. Using the Line Out from my Monolith THX 788 to feed the B4-X. Still on the stock drivers and stock tuning filters. These guys just love tubes and metal and right now they're chewing through Dream Theater's _A Dramatic Turn of Events_. Will have to give them some proper Portnoy to chew on later, but this is one punchy combo. Decent amount of wind behind the kick, too. That cello on _Far From Heaven_ is bone-chilling.


If having the M2S Pro (stock) and the ST10S gold are any indication of the differences; wait until you get the 150Ohm driver... I may have to try the super one driver (just for kicks) on the M2S Pro. 


emusic13 said:


> LCP sounds so good


+1


----------



## furyossa

emusic13 said:


> LCP sounds so good


Which version? They lack low end, especially sub-bass


----------



## emusic13

furyossa said:


> Which version? They lack low end, especially sub-bass


Its a 32 ohm. This one has low end. Its been tuned well. Newbsound LCP


----------



## furyossa

emusic13 said:


> Its a 32 ohm. This one has low end. Its been tuned well. Newbsound LCP


Any link? I'm playing with 120ohm, and I'm trying to find the way to bring bass to life


----------



## emusic13

furyossa said:


> Any link? I'm playing with 120ohm, and I'm trying to find the way to bring bass to life


Its not made by me


----------



## MelodyMood

jogawag said:


> You will need to order the cable separately for this RY4S Plus.
> 
> Did you not like this MMCX cable I recommended?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002103784716.html
> ...


Brother. Is there any other MMCX Cable you can suggest? I ordered one from FAAEAL and it's almost 50 days but it has not arrived yet. They lost tracking and no further update for last 1 month. I need a cable which can be delivered faster. There is one on Ebay: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/255075978119?hash=item3b63b68b87:g:M5cAAOSw4pRhCNgA

But I am preferring Cable with Single Click Mic and Straight Plug (the one form ebay has straight plug though). 

Can you (or anyone else) suggest MMCX with Mic (straight Plug and Single Click Mic). AE does not seem to have any such with faster delivery option so any other site will be fine too. Thanks in advance.


----------



## chinmie

miserybeforethemusic said:


> To think I must have gotten it off easy (so far) with a small handful. Definitely counting my blessings
> 
> 
> _Aphex Twin - Syro_​
> ...


Equation


----------



## furyossa

emusic13 said:


> Its not made by me


Ok, that's why I ask about the link. Where did you get them?


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> If having the M2S Pro (stock) and the ST10S gold are any indication of the differences; wait until you get the 150Ohm driver... I may have to try the super one driver (just for kicks) on the M2S Pro.
> 
> +1


I keep thinking about that same driver…..  if the 14mm goes better than I expect it to, I’ll likely get it.


----------



## MelodyMood

Any suggestion for MMCX Cable with Single Click Mic option and also faster delivery to Australia? AE or any other site is fine.


----------



## emusic13

furyossa said:


> Ok, that's why I ask about the link. Where did you get them?


It's made by a user here. @irv003


----------



## furyossa

emusic13 said:


> It's made by a user here. @irv003


Thanks for the info.


----------



## wskl

VE Monk Slim Metal - Very impressed with these, they are worth far more than $20.




To my ears, the sound signature is neutral-bright.  All aspects of the sound is good, clean and detailed, wide soundstage.  It does have a thinner presentation when used with a neutral source so I would suggest a warmer source.

They do have a bright treble, more than what I am used to, they will be more fatiguing at higher volumes for sure but I don't detect any harshness, the brightness is in the treble region only and does not affect the upper mids, when those treble notes are hit just right it gives me a tingling sensation.


----------



## emusic13

furyossa said:


> Thanks for the info.


No problem Some of the best earbuds I've heard.


----------



## emusic13

furyossa said:


> Thanks for the info.


I just realized I had posted the wrong photo . These are actually the LCP. They look similar. Still sound so good


----------



## furyossa

emusic13 said:


> I just realized I had posted the wrong photo . These are actually the LCP. They look similar. Still sound so good


   Are you sure that you're using right model?


----------



## emusic13

furyossa said:


> Are you sure that you're using right model?


Yes, I'm sure this one is LCP 😂 I switch between them. The other one is called Newbsound X


----------



## Chessnaudio

Is there any successor to the Little Bear B4x? Or any portable tube amplifier comparable?


----------



## samandhi

Chessnaudio said:


> Is there any successor to the Little Bear B4x? Or any portable tube amplifier comparable?


My guess is that you would get more answers if you started your own thread here:https://www.head-fi.org/forums/portable-headphone-amps.105/ being as this is an earbud thread, though @miserybeforethemusic currently has one, and has upgraded the Opamps. Maybe he has a line on something coming???


----------



## Chessnaudio

samandhi said:


> My guess is that you would get more answers if you started your own thread here:https://www.head-fi.org/forums/portable-headphone-amps.105/ being as this is an earbud thread, though @miserybeforethemusic currently has one, and has upgraded the Opamps. Maybe he has a line on something coming???


Thanks


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Aug 9, 2021)

Chessnaudio said:


> Is there any successor to the Little Bear B4x? Or any portable tube amplifier comparable?


Guard your wallet first. It's not a Little product:



https://wooaudio.com/amplifiers/wa8

Here's some other stuff I've stumbled across. It's not going to be Woo-level, though:

https://www.elekit.co.jp/en/product/TU-HP01
https://www.aloaudio.com/shop/continental-v5/


----------



## Chessnaudio

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Guard your wallet first. It's not a Little product:
> 
> 
> https://wooaudio.com/amplifiers/wa8


Ouch! Not in my price range. You would think Little Bear or Douk Audio or some other company would come out with an update/ new one in the B4x price range


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Aug 9, 2021)

Chessnaudio said:


> Ouch! Not in my price range. You would think Little Bear or Douk Audio or some other company would come out with an update/ new one in the B4x price range


I don't know if they're successful-enough a product to convince Douk to go for it. Most folks go OTL from here, I suppose. Linked a more affordable one above. Have no data on it, but looks like a similar idea to the B4-X.

Interesting...apparently it was even reviewed years ago by our own resident @ClieOS . Still have this thing around, buddy?


----------



## vygas

miserybeforethemusic said:


> To think I must have gotten it off easy (so far) with a small handful. Definitely counting my blessings
> 
> 
> _Aphex Twin - Syro_​
> ...


Haha, he's been hiding easter eggs in his music for years, supposedly, for IZ-US he chased his 4 year-old cousin around the house making faces and decided to record whatever he said and put it in a song. I wonder if his cousin remembers how he's now part of his discography


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

vygas said:


> Haha, he's been hiding easter eggs in his music for years, supposedly, for IZ-US he chased his 4 year-old cousin around the house making faces and decided to record whatever he said and put it in a song. I wonder if his cousin remembers how he's now part of his discography


As long as he was just making faces and not repeating this over and over again:


----------



## chinmie

miserybeforethemusic said:


> As long as he was just making faces and not repeating this over and over again:




the Windowlicker cover is one of the funniest and most disturbing for me


----------



## ss2625

chinmie said:


> the Windowlicker cover is one of the funniest and most disturbing for me


Im not so sure if i find it that funny. But disturbing? Definitely 😅


----------



## FranQL

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Guard your wallet first. It's not a Little product:
> 
> 
> https://wooaudio.com/amplifiers/wa8



Quick you have to hurry! has free shipping for a limited time! great offer!


----------



## jao29

miserybeforethemusic said:


> As long as he was just making faces and not repeating this over and over again:



One of my favorite album covers of all time is the Richard D. James artwork. 😃


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 25, 2022)

*Earbuds*, aka _flatheads_, are a member of the *earphones family* of personal stereo/mono headphones, aka _ear receivers_, to include IEMs, Ear Hooks aka Clip-Ons, and Mono Earbuds, aka Side Earplugs. The airy earbud, first debuting in December 1981 from the makers at Trio-Kenwood, has surely come a long way from those early... _*oh, wait a minute, wrong thread.*_


----------



## DivineCurrent

I bought the Smabat M2s based on all the impressions here. I’m hoping it will be a good upgrade/sidegrade to the VE Zen!

Is there any significant advantage to getting the different drivers for the M2s? I was considering getting the 150 ohm titanium driver, but not sure which the best one is for this earbud.


----------



## nymz

DivineCurrent said:


> I bought the Smabat M2s based on all the impressions here. I’m hoping it will be a good upgrade/sidegrade to the VE Zen!
> 
> Is there any significant advantage to getting the different drivers for the M2s? I was considering getting the 150 ohm titanium driver, but not sure which the best one is for this earbud.



To me, its not an upgrade to zen 2.0, not sure about Zen. For me, Zen 2.0 has more detail and stage. M2S has better bass quantity, is more phone, easier to drive, better confort and lets you replace your cables/drivers. They get closer to eachother, according to my ears, if I use the 150ohm over ear. 

If you like zen signature, I'll strongly recommend the 150ohm driver vs the stock one.


----------



## DivineCurrent

nymz said:


> To me, its not an upgrade to zen 2.0, not sure about Zen. For me, Zen 2.0 has more detail and stage. M2S has better bass quantity, is more phone, easier to drive, better confort and lets you replace your cables/drivers. They get closer to eachother, according to my ears, if I use the 150ohm over ear.
> 
> If you like zen signature, I'll strongly recommend the 150ohm driver vs the stock one.


I have the Zen 2.0, hoping the M2s will be a little brighter because that is my main complaint about the Zen 2.0. It is a little too recessed in the treble for me. But I agree it's got great staging and detail. I'll try the 150 ohm driver, thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## nymz

DivineCurrent said:


> I have the Zen 2.0, hoping the M2s will be a little brighter because that is my main complaint about the Zen 2.0. It is a little too recessed in the treble for me. But I agree it's got great staging and detail. I'll try the 150 ohm driver, thanks for the suggestion.


What source are you using on Zen, by the way?

I love M2S Pro, don't get me wrong. If I could only have one of the two, I'd probably choose M2S Pro since it's cheaper, better built and easier to drive...

*... Or LBBS*


----------



## DivineCurrent

nymz said:


> What source are you using on Zen, by the way?
> 
> I love M2S Pro, don't get me wrong. If I could only have one of the two, I'd probably choose M2S Pro since it's cheaper, better built and easier to drive...
> 
> *... Or LBBS*


E1DA 9038D or LG V40 for mobile, and RME ADI-2 DAC for desktop. I decided to get the single ended 3.5 Zen for more compatibility, I’m getting plenty of power from both sources.

How does the LBBS compare?


----------



## rprodrigues

jrazmar said:


> Kindly report back here after you test it with the adapter. I'm still curious if it works or not. Finally pulled the trigger with the Iris 2.0 and K64S. Hope they sound good with what I have. Currently rocking the Seahf AWK F150c attached to my Pixel 4A 5G via the CX-Pro 31993 playing Tidal Master thru UPP. The Ovidius B1 is coming so I'm very excited to hear what they can offer.




As promised...
I've been using my SL 2.5mm for over 2 hours with no issues with adapters (4.4mm to 2.5mm and 3.5mm to 2.5mm) on my Fiio Q3.


----------



## fonkepala

Thinking of splurging on the Zen 2.0. Does it really only 'sing' using VE's amps? I have the Zen DAC, Mojo, Xduoo MT602+Khadas Tone Board 1, Stoner Acoustics UD130, Shanling UA2, Hidizs S9 Pro as well as the Qudelix. Will these be able to drive the Zen 2.0 properly?


----------



## DBaldock9

fonkepala said:


> Thinking of splurging on the Zen 2.0. Does it really only 'sing' using VE's amps? I have the Zen DAC, Mojo, Xduoo MT602+Khadas Tone Board 1, Stoner Acoustics UD130, Shanling UA2, Hidizs S9 Pro as well as the Qudelix. Will these be able to drive the Zen 2.0 properly?



Those amps should drive the Zen 2.0, and provide a satisfying sound quality, as well.


----------



## fonkepala

DBaldock9 said:


> Those amps should drive the Zen 2.0, and provide a satisfying sound quality, as well.


Thanks much, sir.


----------



## nymz

DivineCurrent said:


> E1DA 9038D or LG V40 for mobile, and RME ADI-2 DAC for desktop. I decided to get the single ended 3.5 Zen for more compatibility, I’m getting plenty of power from both sources.
> 
> How does the LBBS compare?



Does the Zen play well from lg v40? To me they seem to seem to feed on power. I feel that my M3X/btr5 is not enough (not volume wise tho). They seem to be tuned for VE amps. My RAP5 is arriving, hope to be able to try it soon


----------



## emusic13 (Aug 10, 2021)

fonkepala said:


> Thinking of splurging on the Zen 2.0. Does it really only 'sing' using VE's amps? I have the Zen DAC, Mojo, Xduoo MT602+Khadas Tone Board 1, Stoner Acoustics UD130, Shanling UA2, Hidizs S9 Pro as well as the Qudelix. Will these be able to drive the Zen 2.0 properly?


If you're planning to splurge on the 2.0 and on the fence about getting the amp or not, might as well get the limited time combo since its only $50 more but comes with the runabout, warpcore, and a zen with SLQ cable in any termination. If you end up not needing the amp, I'm sure someone would scoop it up in the classifieds too. https://www.veclan.com/phone/eac_phone_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=60


----------



## poczta6788

Hi, can someone tell what i can get right now for under 50$? I was thinking about LBBS but the cheapest ones are for 65$ right now :#, beside them "SHOONTH ESEP-01BL" looks like good candidate for 27$.


----------



## nymz (Aug 10, 2021)

emusic13 said:


> If you're planning to splurge on the 2.0 and on the fence about getting the amp or not, might as well get the limited time combo since its only $50 more but comes with the runabout, warpcore, and a zen with SLQ cable in any termination. If you end up not needing the amp, I'm sure someone would scoop it up in the classifieds too. https://www.veclan.com/phone/eac_phone_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=60



Agreed. Thats what I got. I think the deal ends on the 15th.

Altho, I wont rec it, since its 200usd lol


----------



## nymz

poczta6788 said:


> Hi, can someone tell what i can get right now for under 50$? I was thinking about LBBS but the cheapest ones are for 65$ right now :#, beside them "SHOONTH ESEP-01BL" looks like good candidate for 27$.



M2S pro, lbbs, yincrow x6.

That Soonth looks good tho. You can find some reviews around. I think its @furyossa that owns one. I might grab one in the future


----------



## emusic13

Zen SLQ


----------



## jrazmar

rprodrigues said:


> As promised...
> I've been using my SL 2.5mm for over 2 hours with no issues with adapters (4.4mm to 2.5mm and 3.5mm to 2.5mm) on my Fiio Q3.


Thanks! So probably Hououin Kyouma's issue with the adapter or with his SL balanced is an isolated one and not true to all. Still waiting for the Iris 2.0, my first taste of Faaeal sound. If the sound fits me, I may have to check again the SL 2.5mm. 



emusic13 said:


> Zen SLQ


How does this compare to the Newbsound? I tried contacting the maker but unfortunately he doesn't ship outside of US.


----------



## emusic13

jrazmar said:


> How does this compare to the Newbsound? I tried contacting the maker but unfortunately he doesn't ship outside of US.


I'd take the Newbsound LCP over the Zen. Easier to drive too. It's a thick, smooth, and warm sounding earbud with an IEM level amount of detail. Could be endgame although curiosity always wins   

Don't get me wrong though, Zen is still good.


----------



## jrazmar (Aug 11, 2021)

I have had the Zen's before. In the end, I gave up on them and it's a personal preference thing. No offense to the fans.  They sound very good but maybe my gears don't drive them enough or I just want a different signature. Of the 2, I actually preferred the Zen 1.0. Only it was too late when I realized it.

Wish I could have the chance to hear the Newbsound and know what the fuss is all about.

By the way, can anybody tell if this is based on the Kube V1? I searched all over where I can buy one but it seems nowhere to be found then I found this through a local shopee site.  https://shopee.ph/Kube-Earphones-Recabled-by-CLMY-Audio-i.254612246.3040821986


----------



## shenshen

First PK buds, Willsound PK32. First impressions are intimate, warm, slightly peaky in highs, and very textured. Overall a fun bud and a good first pk, but a little too colored and lacking in clarity to become my main buds.

In terms of shell, I will tentatively rank MX > PK > Lite, though I find all of them comfortable enough for all day wear.

Honestly, every bud I have tried has reaffirmed my love of transparency I find in my Blur MX400 aPs.


----------



## furyossa (Aug 11, 2021)

poczta6788 said:


> Hi, can someone tell what i can get right now for under 50$? I was thinking about LBBS but the cheapest ones are for 65$ right now :#, beside them "SHOONTH ESEP-01BL" looks like good candidate for 27$.





nymz said:


> M2S pro, lbbs, yincrow x6.
> 
> That Soonth looks good tho. You can find some reviews around. I think its @furyossa that owns one. I might grab one in the future


Or you can build one by yourself  , they use this driver https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000898923123.html
and DP100 shell https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32988072110.html. Black shell is better but I don't see any on Ali


----------



## Hououin Kyouma

rprodrigues said:


> As promised...
> I've been using my SL 2.5mm for over 2 hours with no issues with adapters (4.4mm to 2.5mm and 3.5mm to 2.5mm) on my Fiio Q3.


That's some good news. So my problem is the adapters' quality, no doubt


----------



## jeejack

poczta6788 said:


> Hi, can someone tell what i can get right now for under 50$? I was thinking about LBBS but the cheapest ones are for 65$ right now :#, beside them "SHOONTH ESEP-01BL" looks like good candidate for 27$.


My SoohnTH like buds with the help of @furyossa


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> My SoohnTH like buds with the help of @furyossa


These models use ShoonTH (Foster) driver but this shell is hybrid, something in between MX500 and DP100. 
NOTE: Never ever use drag n drop method of tuning in this.
@jeejack went a little further with this model and made an MMCX version as well


----------



## poczta6788

furyossa said:


> Or you can build one by yourself  , they use this driver https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000898923123.html
> and DP100 shell https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32988072110.html. Black shell is better but I don't see any on Ali


What about cable? and how hard is to put everything together?


----------



## ian91

shenshen said:


> First PK buds, Willsound PK32. First impressions are intimate, warm, slightly peaky in highs, and very textured. Overall a fun bud and a good first pk, but a little too colored and lacking in clarity to become my main buds.
> 
> In terms of shell, I will tentatively rank MX > PK > Lite, though I find all of them comfortable enough for all day wear.
> 
> Honestly, every bud I have tried has reaffirmed my love of transparency I find in my Blur MX400 aPs.



If you're ever in the market again for more Blur, check out the OFC MX64 aPs Special Tuning Edition. Sounds like it would be your cup of tea! 

Hope you enjoy your new buds!


----------



## furyossa

poczta6788 said:


> What about cable? and how hard is to put everything together?


It's like child's play  . The driver is placed very smoothly on the shell (DP100 or Hybrid, I never tried on MX760)
Ask @jeejack for Hybrid tuning, or see this if you choose DP100
Cables suggestions
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001613178617.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000834974119.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000908606284.html


----------



## poczta6788

furyossa said:


> It's like child's play  . The driver is placed very smoothly on the shell (DP100 or Hybrid, I never tried on MX760)
> Ask @jeejack for Hybrid tuning, or see this if you choose DP100
> Cables suggestions
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001613178617.html
> ...


That how my shooping cart looks like right now + my ghetto photoshop visualization.
Cable that i found - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32933646783.html
What do you think? (in EU we have to pay 23% vat so price is higher :#)


----------



## furyossa (Aug 11, 2021)

poczta6788 said:


> That how my shooping cart looks like right now + my ghetto photoshop visualization.
> Cable that i found - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32933646783.html
> What do you think? (in EU we have to pay 23% vat so price is higher :#)


Look for more reliable store
*For DIY Earphones parts*, there are several stores on Aliexpress. with a very diverse offer. 
Most of the stores have the same parts, so it's a good idea to check where the parts are cheaper :
- NSC Audio Store: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/4394024
- JieTu Audio Store: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/736134
- XinYue Audio Store: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/910741055
- DIY Earphone Tribe Store: https://diy-earphone.aliexpress.com/store/923848
- Chitty's Store: https://greensense.aliexpress.com/store/323026
- CKLewis Audio Store: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1727211
- Yuming Store: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1396671
- RY Earphone Store: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1850191
- Gratituding Store: https://gratituding.aliexpress.com/store/1422180
- Leagginal Store: https://leagginal.aliexpress.com/store/900240294
- QIGOM Audio Store: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/911712423


----------



## furyossa

poczta6788 said:


> That how my shooping cart looks like right now + my ghetto photoshop visualization.
> Cable that i found - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32933646783.html
> What do you think? (in EU we have to pay 23% vat so price is higher :#)


This is the better offer for the driver https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32981872578.html. I know 5 pairs in question but i think it's better than 1 pair for $6.
Also, you can buy all parts in the same store so you not need to wait for other parts to arrive separately


----------



## poczta6788

furyossa said:


> This is the better offer for the driver https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32981872578.html. I know 5 pairs in question but i think it's better than 1 pair for $6.
> Also, you can buy all parts in the same store so you not need to wait for other parts to arrive separately


So far.. 
Would this driver fit in this shell? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32981145439.html it comes with 5 pairs and with foam pads already :#


----------



## aspire5550

shenshen said:


> First PK buds, Willsound PK32. First impressions are intimate, warm, slightly peaky in highs, and very textured. Overall a fun bud and a good first pk, but a little too colored and lacking in clarity to become my main buds.
> 
> In terms of shell, I will tentatively rank MX > PK > Lite, though I find all of them comfortable enough for all day wear.
> 
> Honestly, every bud I have tried has reaffirmed my love of transparency I find in my Blur MX400 aPs.


I scrolled passed the picture and recognized something, had to scroll back to see what is it that looks familiar.

Is that an alice?!


----------



## furyossa

poczta6788 said:


> So far..
> Would this driver fit in this shell? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32981145439.html it comes with 5 pairs and with foam pads already :#


No, this driver has MX760 cover and fits DP100, Hybrid and MX760 shell. This one is for MX500, but I don't know how it sounds like in this shell.


----------



## fonkepala

furyossa said:


> These models use ShoonTH (Foster) driver but this shell is hybrid, something in between MX500 and DP100.
> NOTE: Never ever use drag n drop method of tuning in this.
> @jeejack went a little further with this model and made an MMCX version as well


Ah, so the ShoonTH uses Foster drivers? I remember being disappointed by the Foster drivers in the Ocean Pearl 139. I really wanted to like that one.


----------



## poczta6788

furyossa said:


> No, this driver has MX760 cover and fits DP100, Hybrid and MX760 shell. This one is for MX500, but I don't know how it sounds like in this shell.


Okay, any suggestions? :# I will resell extra pairs.


----------



## shenshen

ian91 said:


> If you're ever in the market again for more Blur, check out the OFC MX64 aPs Special Tuning Edition. Sounds like it would be your cup of tea!
> 
> Hope you enjoy your new buds!


I'm in talks with Wong, he has not gotten to retune the 400ohm drivers yet, so we'll how that plays out.


aspire5550 said:


> I scrolled passed the picture and recognized something, had to scroll back to see what is it that looks familiar.
> 
> Is that an alice?!


Close! It's a Nunu.


----------



## furyossa

poczta6788 said:


> Okay, any suggestions? :# I will resell extra pairs.


Are you plan to build few pairs or just one?


----------



## furyossa

fonkepala said:


> Ah, so the ShoonTH uses Foster drivers? I remember being disappointed by the Foster drivers in the Ocean Pearl 139. I really wanted to like that one.


Only difference is that OG ShoonTH buds use the best samples of these drivers. I see Ocean Pearl 139 use 44ohm driver and MX500 cover and shell. 
This one has different spec and it's 32ohm.


----------



## Rary

poczta6788 said:


> Okay, any suggestions? :# I will resell extra pairs.



The cable you picked is very stiff and easily break near the plug.
I suggest you spend a little bit more and get higher quality cables like the ones suggested by furyossa or something like this
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32820539003.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.65713c00GfXpIg&mp=1

This cable is really good if you are on a budget https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32932216968.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.3a483c00jzHmHD&mp=1

At the same price or less you might also consider testing 2-3 different cheap drivers instead of assembling 5 identical earbuds.
From the same store:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...store_pc_allProduct.8148356.17.6cca23d3kD6pYk
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/329...store_pc_allProduct.8148356.27.6cca23d3kD6pYk
+
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400....store_pc_allProduct.8148356.1.6cca23d3kD6pYk (Good fun set, 32ohm)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...store_pc_allProduct.8148356.11.6cca23d3kD6pYk (Faaeal rosemary drivers, 150ohm)


----------



## fonkepala

furyossa said:


> Only difference is that OG ShoonTH buds use the best samples of these drivers. I see Ocean Pearl 139 use 44ohm driver and MX500 cover and shell.
> This one has different spec and it's 32ohm.


Ah, I see. Ok. Thanks for the clarification. Although if I do recall correctly, the Ocean Pearl 139 is a slightly-modified MX500 shell, namely the stem and the part where it flares out to the face. The rest, appears to be identical.


----------



## furyossa

Rary said:


> The cable you picked is very stiff and easily break near the plug.
> I suggest you spend a little bit more and get higher quality cables like the ones suggested by furyossa or something like this
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32820539003.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.65713c00GfXpIg&mp=1
> 
> ...


The question is whether he wants to build just one model or plans to embark on a serious DIY work.
I don’t want to waste time and recommend a bunch of things if there’s no need


----------



## poczta6788

furyossa said:


> The question is whether he wants to build just one model or plans to embark on a serious DIY work.
> I don’t want to waste time and recommend a bunch of things if there’s no need





Spending 12$ for one pair | Spending 33$ for 4/5 pairs and resell them | Spending 28$ for 3 different earbuds and resell the one i don't like?


----------



## furyossa (Aug 11, 2021)

poczta6788 said:


> Spending 12$ for one pair | Spending 33$ for 4/5 pairs and resell them | Spending 28$ for 3 different earbuds and resell the one i don't like?


Why are you asking us?  Just choose: red or blue pill


----------



## Rary

poczta6788 said:


> Spending 12$ for one pair | Spending 33$ for 4/5 pairs and resell them | Spending 28$ for 3 different earbuds and resell the one i don't like?


You sound like me...roughly 1000$ ago 


Just buy an X6 Link


----------



## poczta6788

Rary said:


> You sound like me...roughly 1000$ ago
> 
> 
> Just buy an X6 Link


I always have problem with final decision xd. **** it, will take 4 pairs of MX760.
Just tell me which cable is more durable, if they are at same level, which is lighter?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33017721516.html 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000908606284.html


----------



## Rary

poczta6788 said:


> I always have problem with final decision xd. **** it, will take 4 pairs of MX760.
> Just tell me which cable is more durable, if they are at same level, which is lighter?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33017721516.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000908606284.html


RY cable: lighter, softer and have better build quality (better plug and workmanship + higher quality copper)
Fabric cable: more durable and easier to solder (less brittle tin).

Sound wise there isn't much difference, it's more a matter of look and price.
I'd pick the RY cable if you plan to use them indoor otherwise the fabric cable.

The fabric cable from that link have a 4-pole jack, i suggest getting the 3-pole standard jack.

Side by side comparison:


----------



## furyossa

Rary said:


> RY cable: lighter, softer and have better build quality (better plug and workmanship + higher quality copper)
> Fabric cable: more durable and easier to solder (less brittle tin).
> 
> Sound wise there isn't much difference, it's more a matter of look and price.
> ...


RY cables are really great. I test them all and never had a problem with them


----------



## samandhi

I recieved the Rose Maria II today (a day early). WOW! these are perty! I haven't had a chance to listen to them yet (been very busy at that stupid work thing to support my habit ) so here are some pics. BTW! I hate US customs sometimes, they open the packages, rip boxes up, then put everything back together half-a**, or not in the right spot. 



Spoiler: Rose Maria II


----------



## agonynine

samandhi said:


> I recieved the Rose Maria II today (a day early). WOW! these are perty! I haven't had a chance to listen to them yet (been very busy at that stupid work thing to support my habit ) so here are some pics. BTW! I hate US customs sometimes, they open the packages, rip boxes up, then put everything back together half-a**, or not in the right spot.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Rose Maria II


Lovely, did you plump for the 14.8mm drivers or the 16mm? These have been in my Ali cart for months and I might be close to pulling the trigger. Would be great to hear your impressions.


----------



## samandhi

agonynine said:


> Lovely, did you plump for the 14.8mm drivers or the 16mm? These have been in my Ali cart for months and I might be close to pulling the trigger. Would be great to hear your impressions.


I decided to get the 16mm since the smabat I have are closer to that size, and they fit really well. Plus they seem to be top heavy so I might need all the support to keep them in my ears that I can get... I will share my impressions after I get a chance to listen to them for more than 5 minutes... LOL


----------



## jeejack (Aug 11, 2021)

poczta6788 said:


> I always have problem with final decision xd. **** it, will take 4 pairs of MX760.
> Just tell me which cable is more durable, if they are at same level, which is lighter?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33017721516.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000908606284.html


This are cheap and very good cable:
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNypQ0n
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mL1nFrD
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMXMYlZ
https://a.aliexpress.com/_msuOMRN
If I were you I would take two pairs of MX760 drivers, one red dot and one 32 ohm N50 😉


----------



## rkw

agonynine said:


> did you plump for the 14.8mm drivers or the 16mm?


Just to clarify, 14.8mm and 16mm of Rose Maria II refer to the shell size, not the drivers. Both sizes use the same drivers.


----------



## samandhi

rkw said:


> Just to clarify, 14.8mm and 16mm of Rose Maria II refer to the shell size, not the drivers. Both sizes use the same drivers.


Exactly right.


----------



## agonynine

rkw said:


> Just to clarify, 14.8mm and 16mm of Rose Maria II refer to the shell size, not the drivers. Both sizes use the same drivers.


Sorry, yes, meant shells, typed drivers.


----------



## samandhi

agonynine said:


> Sorry, yes, meant shells, typed drivers.


Well, technically speaking, the rear of the shell is much larger to accommodate the 20mm driver. It is the nozzle/bud part of the shell that can be either 14.8 or 16mm for fit only.  

But, I totally got what you were saying. I actually DID think about getting the 14.8, but one of the reviews I read said they got it and it was actually too small and they had a hard time keeping them in their ears because of the off balanced weight. It seems they were right. The 16mm does balance out the weight distribution very well (though technically I can't speak to how well it would go for the 14.8mm).  

So far I am really liking the sound of these. They seem to have some spectacular technicalities (as wide or wider soundstage than the Chaconne, for instance). They are a tad bit boosted in the upper mids, but otherwise very clear. The lower end is not boosted a ton, but boy does it go deep. The 20mm DD shows off here, though not as bassy overall as you would think with such a big driver. The bass is a bit dark(ish). The focus is more in sub bass than mid and upper bass, though they ARE there. Texture seems to be ok to great, and speed is also really nice, but could be better if mid bass has a tad more presense. Transitions are really smooth all the way up the FR. Treble is warm and smooth. I wouldn't quite call them sweet, but they are pretty close to it. Cymbals do crash, but are laid back a bit underneath the upper mids.  Mids are fairly smooth, and not thin like others I have heard. Overall they seem to be a different tuning even then the 2 Smabats, the Chaconne, and the DUNU (which is a great thing because I wanted a contrast to the Chaconne but on the same level, which these appear to be IMO). 

Anyhow, those are just first impressions. I am almost 100% sure things will change over time (once I get used to hearing them).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Take 2 on the foam-overs. This time, I'm not stretching the earhook around the entire driver, just the back piece. Luckily, Smabat made this pretty easy:



Doesn't look too shabby, but how does it fit?



Pretty darn good. It's not as confident as the older method, but this is a heck of a lot easier to set up and the net effect in FR is pretty minimal. I do get a bit more of the sub-bass back compared to when I'm not using the fins and these don't knock out. I'd say that's a win


----------



## samandhi

Those look great! Plus, I would think you WOULD get better bass response, because having the fins further back, the buds can get closer to your ear canals than they otherwise would be with the fins on the nozzle itself. Great idea!

Remind me, which cable is that? it looks different than the one you had before???

BTW! Gettin' some gray hairs going there young man....


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> Those look great! Plus, I would think you WOULD get better bass response, because having the fins further back, the buds can get closer to your ear canals than they otherwise would be with the fins on the nozzle itself. Great idea!
> 
> Remind me, which cable is that? it looks different than the one you had before???
> 
> BTW! Gettin' some gray hairs going there young man....


Hah...internally, I'm hitting 65 this year. Externally, no comment hahaha. I earned all of those grey hairs, anyway.

The cable is NiceHCK's 16-core OCC cable. I have the same style in a SPC as well (that's the black one you see periodically). The silver Litz, for obvious reasons, is a different weave. Still waiting on the smaller guys to arrive, but this cable could stand to go on a diet.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Hah...internally, I'm hitting 65 this year. Externally, no comment hahaha. I earned all of those grey hairs, anyway.
> 
> The cable is NiceHCK's 16-core OCC cable. I have the same style in a SPC as well (that's the black one you see periodically). The silver Litz, for obvious reasons, is a different weave. Still waiting on the smaller guys to arrive, but this cable could stand to go on a diet.


LOL I hear ya' there. 

Oh yeah, I remember seeing the silver litz on it. That is why I was asking, it looks pretty big for an earbud cable...


----------



## baskingshark

furyossa said:


> Why are you asking us?  Just choose: red or blue pill



Actually, the only one and correct answer on headfi is to *choose both*. Best of both worlds. 

Spoiler: Choosing both options will incur double the Wrath of the significant other though.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> LOL I hear ya' there.
> 
> Oh yeah, I remember seeing the silver litz on it. That is why I was asking, it looks pretty big for an earbud cable...


Yep, it's on the edge of "good enough for earbuds." Certainly not ideal, but the hooks definitely help with ergonomics.



These foams only seem to be getting fluffier, too. Going to have to make sure I figure out what the closest substitute to these are in case I tear this set.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Yep, it's on the edge of "good enough for earbuds." Certainly not ideal, but the hooks definitely help with ergonomics.
> 
> 
> 
> These foams only seem to be getting fluffier, too. Going to have to make sure I figure out what the closest substitute to these are in case I tear this set.


Those hooks almost look as though they were made for those. Like it a lot!


baskingshark said:


> Actually, the only one and correct answer on headfi is to *choose both*. Best of both worlds.
> 
> Spoiler: Choosing both options will incur double the Wrath of the significant other though.


SOOOO +1 (on both accounts) LOL


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Oh this will be a fun one for Team LittleBear:




Surprisingly usable as a true "portable," assuming one's pockets are large enough to fit the stack. Happy to report only one elastic band was needed to hold the SR25 and B4-X together and it doesn't wobble a bit. The silicone o-rings I put over the tubes (very carefully) seem to help with some of the ringing that motion would introduce. Takes it down low enough that you don't hear it when you're moving about. Totally cool that I can just put this down on a tabletop outside and go, though. Gives me a lot more use for the darn thing.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Oh this will be a fun one for Team LittleBear:
> 
> 
> 
> Surprisingly usable as a true "portable," assuming one's pockets are large enough to fit the stack. Happy to report only one elastic band was needed to hold the SR25 and B4-X together and it doesn't wobble a bit. The silicone o-rings I put over the tubes (very carefully) seem to help with some of the ringing that motion would introduce. Takes it down low enough that you don't hear it when you're moving about. Totally cool that I can just put this down on a tabletop outside and go, though. Gives me a lot more use for the darn thing.


Makes me almost miss having stacks..... ALMOST.


----------



## jrazmar (Aug 12, 2021)

Which one is harder to drive, a low sensitivity phone or a high impedance one? My F150c is both 85db and 150Ω. For me, it plays well with my phone driven using USB DAC dongles. I have several now but for the F150c, it goes well with the CX-Pro 31993 giving it more air and separation with smooth mids and sufficient bass impact. Just want to know if I'm getting the most out of it given I have no experience with dedicated portable and desktop amps or high-end DACs.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 12, 2021)

jrazmar said:


> Which one is harder to drive, a low sensitivity phone or a high impedance one? My F150c is both 85db and 150Ω. For me, it plays well with my phone driven using USB DAC dongles. I have several now but for the F150c, it goes well with the CX-Pro 31993 giving it more air and separation with smooth mids and sufficient bass impact. Just want to know if I'm getting the most out of it given I have no experience with dedicated portable and desktop amps or high-end DACs.


It really depends on how loud you are listening to your music.

Yes, the *Seahf AWK-F150C 150Ω *can be very hard to drive, from many mobile sources, but only after 95dB SPL.

As you can see just below the AWK-F150C only requires *1.22Vrms @ 10mW* to reach *95dB SPL* and one (1) volt would bring you in just a tad lower @ 93.24db SPL. Even if we use a rather needy headroom of let's say 25dB (which takes into account a hefty 15dB low bass requirement) you will still reach a significant listening level of around 68.24 to 70 dB which would really cover most situations (varying music genres and listening environments) just fine outside of a train station and/or heavy construction site. This is why they sound fine through your smartphone + dongle... they are more than likely getting enough power to be driven properly as designed.

One other worthy consideration to mull over is that earbud and IEM transducers (drivers) are very small and were purposely designed (even high impedance models) to play very well from modestly powered mobile sources. Quite a number of audio engineers, that specifically design such said transducers (drivers), have confirmed to me that the loss of fidelity due to power is usually less than 3% per 10dB which most human ears would have difficulty detecting as it usually occurs in the low bass region. The real issue rather is the resulting distortion because the driver's designed max power capability has been surpassed.





Now when one seeks to reach a level of 100dB SPL or greater in loudness this is where/when one will run into some "power issues" as well as the driver's design limitation being reached.

*2.18Vrms @ 32mW* is required to reach *100dB SPL*... sustained listening at 75dB plus 25dB headroom equals 100dBSPL.




*6.89Vrms @ 316mW* is required to reach *110dB SPL*... a very loud 85dB in sustained listening with 25dB of headroom (total of 110dB SPL). Note, that this may be reaching the driver's max power capability.




*21.78Vrms @ 3,162mW (aka 3.2 Watts!)* is required to reach *120dB SPL*... which would most definitely be testing the driver's design specifications with grand distortion as a result... though at this point I would really have to question why anyone would be listening at sustained levels of 95dB or higher (95dB listening level + 25dB headroom = 120dB SPL).


----------



## jrazmar (Aug 12, 2021)

Thank you for this very informative and detailed explanation. Although I'm not good at some of the technical terms, I could somehow understand the idea but not entirely on actual application specially that I only listen to music and not measure things. But this is really appreciated sir. I'm the type who listens to loud volume levels maybe 80% to 90% on a smartphone. Is there a way perhaps an app that could tell me how many decibels is my current volume? That way I can gauge which scenario above I am currently in.


----------



## Ronion

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Oh this will be a fun one for Team LittleBear:
> 
> 
> 
> Surprisingly usable as a true "portable," assuming one's pockets are large enough to fit the stack. Happy to report only one elastic band was needed to hold the SR25 and B4-X together and it doesn't wobble a bit. The silicone o-rings I put over the tubes (very carefully) seem to help with some of the ringing that motion would introduce. Takes it down low enough that you don't hear it when you're moving about. Totally cool that I can just put this down on a tabletop outside and go, though. Gives me a lot more use for the darn thing.


I’ve found that I just needs to wear my Down jacket to prevent ringing while I walk.  My grandfather used to say that you should work up a sweat every day to remain healthy.  Well now I can do that just walking around my yard—which is about 3meters by 4 meters


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Aug 13, 2021)

Ronion said:


> I’ve found that I just needs to wear my Down jacket to prevent ringing while I walk.  My grandfather used to say that you should work up a sweat every day to remain healthy.  Well now I can do that just walking around my yard—which is about 3meters by 4 meters


I found rolling a couple of these over the tubes (very carefully) also helps a bit. If anything, it helps distribute the light from that tube glow. I used some of the leftover o-rings as a damper for my turntable's tonearm hahaha:


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B081G98QGX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I got the 3mm wide, 8mm ID, 14mm OD gaskets. Could probably have stood to go a little thinner with a slightly larger ID to make it easier to roll over the tubes; just be sure to not break any of the leads connecting the tubes to their respective sockets.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I found rolling a couple of these over the tubes (very carefully) also helps a bit. If anything, it helps distribute the light from that tube glow. I used some of the leftover o-rings as a damper for my turntable's tonearm hahaha:
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B081G98QGX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> ...


What are the adjustable POTs on that thing for? Calibrations? It looks like you have one POT, for the left tube at 1oclock, and the right one at 12 oclock?!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> What are the adjustable POTs on that thing for? Calibrations? It looks like you have one POT, for the left tube at 1oclock, and the right one at 12 oclock?!


Yep, they're biasing adjustments for the OPAMPs and tubes. That's the before. They're matched now.


----------



## Ronion

Okay, so my VE Zen Lite arrived today and I just foamed them up and plugged it into the balanced end of Qudelix 5K.  These are some HiRez buds for certain!  Even with AAC over Bluetooth these things are exposing things in the midrange with more detail than I’ve ever heard.  Very layered soundstage as well.  From memory not as huge as the M2s pro, but layered and enveloping nonetheless.  Bass doesn’t seem as deep, nor is the trebles as prominent but I can’t help but love this signature.  The comfort of this shell is a new level for me.  It’s definitely cool when you put a but in your ear for the first time w/o any experimentation and it wows you.  If no amp/source sounds better than this I’ll be fully satisfied, but I’m sure a few of them will.  The Little Bear with HiRez (redbook or better) files should one up with as well as the A5.  My gut tells me these guys are a A5 mate… Time will tell.


I’m in a place now where I have several buds that I love.  Time to get rid of ones I won’t use.


----------



## samandhi

Awesome! I like that you have adjustments for those...


----------



## Ronion

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Yep, they're biasing adjustments for the OPAMPs and tubes. That's the before. They're matched now.


Mine were making a crackling noise until I moved those around a bit.  Then I adjusted them for channel balance and life is beautiful.  I really love the what this amp adds to the music.


----------



## nymz

Ronion said:


> Okay, so my VE Zen Lite arrived today and I just foamed them up and plugged it into the balanced end of Qudelix 5K.  These are some HiRez buds for certain!  Even with AAC over Bluetooth these things are exposing things in the midrange with more detail than I’ve ever heard.  Very layered soundstage as well.  From memory not as huge as the M2s pro, but layered and enveloping nonetheless.  Bass doesn’t seem as deep, nor is the trebles as prominent but I can’t help but love this signature.  The comfort of this shell is a new level for me.  It’s definitely cool when you put a but in your ear for the first time w/o any experimentation and it wows you.  If no amp/source sounds better than this I’ll be fully satisfied, but I’m sure a few of them will.  The Little Bear with HiRez (redbook or better) files should one up with as well as the A5.  My gut tells me these guys are a A5 mate… Time will tell.
> 
> 
> I’m in a place now where I have several buds that I love.  Time to get rid of ones I won’t use.



If those are mini Zen 2.0, you're in for a ride. They love power and sources. Very nice detail. Mine got more bass with more power. Enjoy the ride!


----------



## Ronion

I believe they are essentially mini Zen 2(don’t quote me on that).  I’m completely pumped up about these.  Going to take them hiking with the dog right now, but tonight we are doing the Little Bear, JDS Atom, and the A5.  Both battery amps are charging as I type.  This is going to be a good, good night  thank you!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Ronion said:


> Okay, so my VE Zen Lite arrived today and I just foamed them up and plugged it into the balanced end of Qudelix 5K.  These are some HiRez buds for certain!  Even with AAC over Bluetooth these things are exposing things in the midrange with more detail than I’ve ever heard.  Very layered soundstage as well.  From memory not as huge as the M2s pro, but layered and enveloping nonetheless.  Bass doesn’t seem as deep, nor is the trebles as prominent but I can’t help but love this signature.  The comfort of this shell is a new level for me.  It’s definitely cool when you put a but in your ear for the first time w/o any experimentation and it wows you.  If no amp/source sounds better than this I’ll be fully satisfied, but I’m sure a few of them will.  The Little Bear with HiRez (redbook or better) files should one up with as well as the A5.  My gut tells me these guys are a A5 mate… Time will tell.


Oooh nice! Playing around with the first set I can confidently run foam-less. I'd even venture to say they sound bigger than the M2s Pro, but I did just pop them in my ears. Definitely need some more time with them, but I will say they're unique. _Very _unique.



Oh, and speaking in terms of fit and tonality, these plopped right in from the beginning and were good to go. That BA adds a really interesting tonality; almost like the stage didn't necessarily grow wider, but seems to extend down a really long hallway. It's not necessarily realistic, but it's definitely fun _and _different from the rest of the stable. Unfortunately, I think these were originally priced out of most people's consideration (Headfonics said they were £119 at the time they reviewed) and probably just fell below the radar. They're tons of fun, though, and I have to give a massive thank you to @samandhi for the care package. Been going through a bit of a rough patch, so this will help provide a little respite for the time being.

Thanks bud


----------



## ValSuki

Heya folks! 
Now im still fairly new to audio and out of all of them from headphones and IEM's, earbuds have interested me the most just because of their unique factor and old classy style. Some buds that have interested me are the Yuin series, like the OK earbuds that can convert from an IEM to a regular old earbuds. What are thoughts on those? And if anyone likes Yuin's stuff.


----------



## nymz

Ronion said:


> I believe they are essentially mini Zen 2(don’t quote me on that).  I’m completely pumped up about these.  Going to take them hiking with the dog right now, but tonight we are doing the Little Bear, JDS Atom, and the A5.  Both battery amps are charging as I type.  This is going to be a good, good night  thank you!



Glad you like it! I'm on the other side of the spectrum today. I think I found replacements for my Zens, LBBS and M2S pro.

Today was a good day in my bud world. I got my (first) two pairs of Blurs and man, what a ride 

You can check my unpacking on the Blur thread here.






No comparitions made yet. Spent all day hearing this two. Didn't even touched my lands today lol


----------



## samandhi (Aug 12, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Oooh nice! Playing around with the first set I can confidently run foam-less. I'd even venture to say they sound bigger than the M2s Pro, but I did just pop them in my ears. Definitely need some more time with them, but I will say they're unique. _Very _unique.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Being very unique is what drew me to them in the first place. I can only agree that the price has been what has kept them from being more popular over the last 7 years or so. They sound so good, in a unique way, that I can't imagine that being the reason they are not (still) popular. You are right about pricing. They were pretty salty. The problem is that (except for the one storefront on Amazon I found them at), they are still $179 on DUNU site and everywhere else I looked. I would bet that if DUNU wanted to make them more popular, they could simply lower the price. IMO these are still very relevant in their sound technology. One DD and one BA is pretty darned unique (even today) for earbuds.

I can only hope that this does indeed provide a brief respite for you. You deserve it bro!

Edit: Oh and I couldn't have put it better myself on the description of the sound that you wrote. I hear pretty much the same thing.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> Being very unique is what drew me to them in the first place. I can only agree that the price has been what has kept them from being more popular over the last 7 years or so. They sound so good, in a unique way, that I can't imagine that being the reason they are not (still) popular. You are right about pricing. They were pretty salty. The problem is that (except for the one storefront on Amazon I found them at), they are still $179 on DUNU site and everywhere else I looked. I would bet that if DUNU wanted to make them more popular, they could simply lower the price. IMO these are still very relevant in their sound technology. One DD and one BA is pretty darned unique (even today) for earbuds.
> 
> I can only hope that this does indeed provide a brief respite for you. You deserve it bro!
> 
> Edit: Oh and I couldn't have put it better myself on the description of the sound that you wrote. I hear pretty much the same thing.


They might become the new top pick for metal. Still need to fix some of that shout to make them completely right, but it's a great starting point.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> They might become the new top pick for metal. Still need to fix some of that shout to make them completely right, but it's a great starting point.


Take about 2-5 dB out of 3K. 5 dB sounds best for shout, but kills the staging a bit, hence the rec for starting point of 2dB. Also, if you boost 31Hz by 3dB and 125Hz by 1dB, yes it will increase the bass a bit, but more importantly it will make 3k seem lower without messing with the staging. I don't know if I would go much more on the bass because it will (again) mess up staging, but in the lower region... 

Oh, and wait until you hear some R&B or something downtempo with quiet moments. These really do separate very well.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Aug 12, 2021)

samandhi said:


> Take about 2-5 dB out of 3K. 5 dB sounds best for shout, but kills the staging a bit, hence the rec for starting point of 2dB. Also, if you boost 31Hz by 3dB and 125Hz by 1dB, yes it will increase the bass a bit, but more importantly it will make 3k seem lower without messing with the staging. I don't know if I would go much more on the bass because it will (again) mess up staging, but in the lower region...
> 
> Oh, and wait until you hear some R&B or something downtempo with quiet moments. These really do separate very well.


Yeah, separation and spatial imaging seem to be the real strong suits. Going through the various surround combos, I see what you meant about the ergonomics of the half-foams; extremely comfortable and definitely the most disappear-in-your-ear, but there's something supremely satisfying about the sort of bass impact you get with the wingtips.

And, while it's not quite R&B, this definitely brings back some _In Living Color_ vibes:



That cable, though...needs some work. That could have been a major dealbreaker for people. Would be really interesting to see if these could be converted to MMCX without damaging the drivers.


----------



## samandhi

This one sounds really good in the Alpha 1:


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Yeah, separation and spatial imaging seem to be the real strong suits. Going through the various surround combos, I see what you meant about the ergonomics of the half-foams; extremely comfortable and definitely the most disappear-in-your-ear, but there's something supremely satisfying about the sort of bass impact you get with the wingtips.
> 
> And, while it's not quite R&B, this definitely brings back some _In Living Color_ vibes:
> 
> ...



Yeah, I liked the wingtips also, but for me it makes them TOO shouty (being already on the edge in that region WITH the foams). Those foams were (for me anyhow) a pita to get on there, but I really do like them. 

Man, I am digging that "Blood Sister" song in these! That is 2 for 2 with this artist (for me), I still think I like Dark Prince a bit better, but this one is a bit "funky" as it were (a bit 80s In Living Color, Ghostbusters like you suggested)... LOL

Oh yeah, it is almost exactly like the Apple Classic Earbuds cabling. While it doesn't have memory.... It also doesn't have ANY memory and springs back to as straight as it can be. The really innovative thing I liked about the cable is the cable tie. That is SO simplistic but ingenious IMO. 

That would be fantastic if one could add MMCX. Too bad that store is all out of the cheapos to buy because I don't think I would want to risk ruining these (the main ones). Nor would I pay $179 only to experiment....


----------



## emusic13

Spoiler: Blurs






nymz said:


> Glad you like it! I'm on the other side of the spectrum today. I think I found replacements for my Zens, LBBS and M2S pro.
> 
> Today was a good day in my bud world. I got my (first) two pairs of Blurs and man, what a ride
> 
> ...






I'm curious how they compare to your Zens.


----------



## Ronion (Aug 12, 2021)

Much to my surprise my A5 is not the best match for the Zen Lite: it’s older brother, theE12 Monte Blanc is!  It likely has very little charge right now as I haven’t used it in weeks, but wow does it sound strong and dynamic with these Zen Lite!  The JDS Atom and and the Qudelix 5K balanced are also essentially perfect with it.  Well in reality the Atom is probably king, but I cannot carry it in my pocket.  HiRez is probably what takes the e12 to sound even more detailed/dynamic than the Qudelix.  The difference is small enough that it won’t bother me at all in non music critic situations.   My favorite two amps generally speaking (the A5 and the B4X) sound too dark with these.  Every time I find something that works really well with the E12 I get stricken with grief.  Its battery life is definitely fading now and I’m afraid I’m not skilled enough to replace it.  I will certainly try when the time comes.

I wouldn’t say that I absolutely like these better than the M2S pro, but I’d place them on a similar level for listening enjoyment.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Much to my surprise my A5 is not the best match for the Zen Lite: it’s older brother, theE12 Monte Blanc is!  It likely has very little charge right now as I haven’t used it in weeks, but wow does it sound strong and dynamic with these Zen Lite!  The JDS Atom and and the Qudelix 5K balanced are also essentially perfect with it.  Well in reality the Atom is probably king, but I cannot carry it in my pocket.  HiRez is probably what takes the e12 to sound even more detailed/dynamic than the Qudelix.  The difference is small enough that it won’t bother me at all in non music critic situations.   My favorite two amps generally speaking (the A5 and the B4X) sound too dark with these.  Every time I find something that works really well with the E12 I get stricken with grief.  Its battery life is definitely fading now and I’m afraid I’m not skilled enough to replace it.  I will certainly try when the time comes.
> 
> I wouldn’t say that I absolutely like these better than the M2S pro, but I’d place them on a similar level for listening enjoyment.


I am reading that this is much like my Fiio Portable amps (E17 Alpen, and E17K Alpen II) that basically require you to take a few screws out. Looks like you will need to also remove the bass boost knob with some needle nosed plyers. Here is a quote explaining the process (somewhat):





> Hey I know this thread is old, but have an answer for the OP question.  My E12 took a swim in a pool of energy drink that was punctured in my bag (oops).
> 
> Simple answer, the bass switch is just a small aluminum 'numb.'  Pull it out.
> 
> ...


 which is from this thread:https://www.head-fi.org/threads/how-to-open-a-fiio-e12.721585/#post-10602240

And here is a replacement battery (I can't speak to the reputation of the site or the battery, this is just the search results I have come up with):https://www.aliexpress.com/i/4001250697344.html

Fiio says they aren't user replaceable, but they didn't glue stuff together like cell phones of today, they still have good ole' screws so this should really be a piece of cake to DIY. 

Cheers!


----------



## Ronion

That actually looks much easier than I figured!  Now to decide wether to take the plunge.  The Zen Lite are worth it.

thank you Brother!  You’re always right there Samandhi.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> That actually looks much easier than I figured!  Now to decide wether to take the plunge.  The Zen Lite are worth it.
> 
> thank you Brother!  You’re always right there Samandhi.


If you have noticed that it is fading, it is probably time, though you might eke out some more time from it if you are bound and determined. One suggestion though, buy the battery now just in case they get discontinued or something like that (sure it won't but one never knows). If you plan on having it for a long time, I might even buy two of them, and just make sure the one you DON'T use is charged up to about 50%. You can keep lithium batteries for something like 5-7 years in this state without worry of damage or drain. I even used to store my lithium batteries for my RC cars in the refrigerator (lithium likes the cold when not dead or fully charged). Good luck, and let us know how it all turns out for you?!

You are most welcome! That is what we are all here for (ultimately to enjoy sound, and to help others do the same).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Here's where I think I've settled out for the evening. For starters, here's an idea for the different fit combinations one can have with the Alpha 1:



When you realize you can mix-and-match a bit and even overlap the foams with just about everything except for the wings, it's not too hard to dial in a fit and tonality that suits your fancy. Turns out when you put on the thick rubber tips (called "Balanced/Musical") and then get the foams properly stretched over that, you get a pretty nice blend of all of the Alpha 1's strengths without too many compromises.



Set up like this, I don't _need_ to run EQ, though it does help tame a midrange energy that dances dangerously close to the edge otherwise. It's doing well enough for tonight's album, which just so happens to be Faith No More's _Album of the Year_. If you didn't tell me it was FNM, I'd honestly believe it came out much more recently than it did.


----------



## samandhi

Sweet! So you have the thick silicone rings under the foamies? How much different does that sound than with foams only? I haven't tried that combination yet.

FNM, yep!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> Sweet! So you have the thick silicone rings under the foamies? How much different does that sound than with foams only? I haven't tried that combination yet.
> 
> FNM, yep!


Yep, donut foam over the thick silicone rings. I think it brings more body to the mids and lower bass, which I thought was missing with just the foams. Probably brings out the diameter and offsets the BA a bit; I'd imagine that and the foam help break up some of the shout.

Center image (when using the SR25) is smack-dab between the eyes, though, and either walks towards the center of your brain or out in front of you. Exactly where I like it to be, though lateral imaging isn't the best (would venture to say even the FAAEAL handle that a bit better). The Alpha 1 seem to go for the diffuse-it-wide method, at least in this configuration, which I don't mind here at all.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> If you have noticed that it is fading, it is probably time, though you might eke out some more time from it if you are bound and determined. One suggestion though, buy the battery now just in case they get discontinued or something like that (sure it won't but one never knows). If you plan on having it for a long time, I might even buy two of them, and just make sure the one you DON'T use is charged up to about 50%. You can keep lithium batteries for something like 5-7 years in this state without worry of damage or drain. I even used to store my lithium batteries for my RC cars in the refrigerator (lithium likes the cold when not dead or fully charged). Good luck, and let us know how it all turns out for you?!
> 
> You are most welcome! That is what we are all here for (ultimately to enjoy sound, and to help others do the same).


I have already placed the order  I'm still banking on some company making a similar amp some day in the future.  I only hope I'm not a fool.  This battery has lasted at least a decade though......


----------



## nymz (Aug 13, 2021)

emusic13 said:


> I'm curious how they compare to your Zens.



Sure, in the due time, comparitions and a small "review" will be done. Still trying them and having an honeymoon phase. In the first two hours, my brain was just processing the Blurs since the amount of detail and the tuning is over nine thousand.

The reason I've been holding on my opinions of the Zen 2.0 is quite simple: I bought it because of the RAP5 deal, but the RAP5 has not arrived yet. It's on my country already, but I guess VE's courier is just slow at going through customs (Blurs arrived in 2 work days with Fedex lol - Signapure to Portugal). The zen is a very power hungry earbud and tuned to be ran from VE's AMPs. That's why I'm holding my full impressions, so I can hear it with the tuned AMP.

So far my brain tells me these two blow everything out of the water, but time will tell. I'll keep using them during the weekend!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Ronion said:


> Much to my surprise my A5 is not the best match for the Zen Lite: it’s older brother, theE12 Monte Blanc is! .. ...My favorite two amps generally speaking (the A5 and the B4X) sound too dark with these.  Every time I find something that works really well with the E12 I get stricken with grief.  Its battery life is definitely fading now and I’m afraid I’m not skilled enough to replace it.  I will certainly try when the time comes.





samandhi said:


> I am reading that this is much like my Fiio Portable amps (E17 Alpen, and E17K Alpen II) that basically require you to take a few screws out. Looks like you will need to also remove the bass boost knob with some needle nosed plyers. Here is a quote explaining the process (somewhat): which is from this thread:https://www.head-fi.org/threads/how-to-open-a-fiio-e12.721585/#post-10602240
> 
> And here is a replacement battery (I can't speak to the reputation of the site or the battery, this is just the search results I have come up with):https://www.aliexpress.com/i/4001250697344.html
> 
> Fiio says they aren't user replaceable, but they didn't glue stuff together like cell phones of today, they still have good ole' screws so this should really be a piece of cake to DIY.





Ronion said:


> *That actually looks much easier than I figured! * Now to decide wether to take the plunge.  The Zen Lite are worth it.


Indeed it was! I replaced the batteries in a number of my older FiiO head amps without issue (E12A; A5). Don't know if my older eyes and unsteady hands could do it now but it wasn't very hard to do as *@samandhi* has correctly intimated.


----------



## jrazmar

The Iris 2.0 arrived and it did not wow me. So back to my beloved F150c. Billie Ellish tracks just sound so good, creepy and mesmerizing on it.  And the waiting for the others continues...


----------



## fonkepala

nymz said:


> Sure, in the due time, comparitions and a small "review" will be done. Still trying them and having an honeymoon phase. In the first two hours, my brain was just processing the Blurs since the amount of detail and the tuning is over nine thousand.
> 
> The reason I've been holding on my opinions of the Zen 2.0 is quite simple: I bought it because of the RAP5 deal, but the RAP5 has not arrived yet. It's on my country already, but I guess VE's courier is just slow at going through customs (Blurs arrived in 2 work days with Fedex lol - Signapure to Portugal). The zen is a very power hungry earbud and tuned to be ran from VE's AMPs. That's why I'm holding my full impressions, so I can hear it with the tuned AMP.
> 
> So far my brain tells me these two blow everything out of the water, but time will tell. I'll keep using them during the weekend!


Have you tried the Zen 2.0 with any of the other dac/amps you have at hand? Eager to read your impressions of it against the Blurs. Even without the RAP5.


----------



## nymz (Aug 13, 2021)

fonkepala said:


> Have you tried the Zen 2.0 with any of the other dac/amps you have at hand? Eager to read your impressions of it against the Blurs. Even without the RAP5.



Yes, I did. I have my zen 2.0 for a month now. Used it with my M3X and Btr5. I can do that, but only next week. Going back to my home city for a family weding and only packed the Blurs and the Land.

Can advance you tho, that the best quality of the zens is the air and the detail on them. They were tuned to sound like open back cans, and they really do. 
You see, my problem now is that my blurs have more detail and sound like speakers, in comparition... Hell, they even compete with my TSMR Lands in detail, and this are detail monsters.

Both my Blurs were picked with 2 signatures in mind. 
One more "Fun", with good bass and treble, without recessing mids, easy to drive with a 3.5mm so I can carry around and a PK shell to be more confortable to my ears.
The other one is the more critical/analytical one. I love this type of phones for female voices, and then I found there was a Special Tuning Edition, very good for this job, so I ordered aswell.

First impressions tell me that the blurs will boil every bud I own, out of the water.


----------



## fonkepala

nymz said:


> Yes, I did. I have my zen 2.0 for a month now. Used it with my M3X and Btr5. I can do that, but only next week. Going back to my home city for a family weding and only packed the Blurs and the Land.
> 
> Can advance you tho, that the best quality of the zens is the air and the detail on them. They were tuned to sound like open back cans, and they really do.
> You see, my problem now is that my blurs have more detail and sound like speakers, in comparition... Hell, they even compete with my TSMR Lands in detail, and this are detail monsters.
> ...


Thanks for this. So TL;DR is: Blurs > Zen 2.0, correct?


----------



## nymz

fonkepala said:


> Thanks for this. So TL;DR is: Blurs > Zen 2.0, correct?



If you gonna buy a pair, yes, get a Blur that matches what you want it for. Mr. Wong is a magician. Can't see a reason yet to be the other way around, tbh. Keep in mind I only own the blurs for 24h.


----------



## waynes world

samandhi said:


> I am reading that this is much like my Fiio Portable amps (E17 Alpen, and E17K Alpen II) that basically require you to take a few screws out. Looks like you will need to also remove the bass boost knob with some needle nosed plyers. Here is a quote explaining the process (somewhat): which is from this thread:https://www.head-fi.org/threads/how-to-open-a-fiio-e12.721585/#post-10602240
> 
> And here is a replacement battery (I can't speak to the reputation of the site or the battery, this is just the search results I have come up with):https://www.aliexpress.com/i/4001250697344.html
> 
> ...



Thanks for that. I have the "pre-production" version of the E12 which has a nice elevated "sub-bass" bass boost which I love. It's nice to know I can replace the battery on this classic amp! I think I'll take your advice and buy one of those batteries now for when I need it.

Smabat ST10s sounding awesome through it


----------



## Alex.Grimm

FAAEAL Red/Blue
https://a.aliexpress.com/_A5SNHE


----------



## fonkepala

waynes world said:


> Thanks for that. I have the "pre-production" version of the E12 which has a nice elevated "sub-bass" bass boost which I love. It's nice to know I can replace the battery on this classic amp! I think I'll take your advice and buy one of those batteries now for when I need it.
> 
> Smabat ST10s sounding awesome through it



Speaking of 'classic' amps/dacs, anyone here still using the Fiio Q1 Mark 1?


----------



## samandhi

fonkepala said:


> Speaking of 'classic' amps/dacs, anyone here still using the Fiio Q1 Mark 1?


Sorry. The E17K Alpen and the E17K Alpen II are the only two I currently have. But I still have my Fiio DAPs (X5 first gen, and X3II).

On another note, is your avatar picture of the Xioami Piston II? I still have both pairs I bought (seems like) many years ago. I think those were the first Beryllium drivers on the market (before Chi-Fi was a thing). I think they were affectionately known as Budget-Fi...


----------



## fonkepala

samandhi said:


> Sorry. The E17K Alpen and the E17K Alpen II are the only two I currently have. But I still have my Fiio DAPs (X5 first gen, and X3II).
> 
> On another note, is your avatar picture of the Xioami Piston II? I still have both pairs I bought (seems like) many years ago. I think those were the first Beryllium drivers on the market (before Chi-Fi was a thing). I think they were affectionately known as Budget-Fi...


Haha, yes, you're spot on! It is the Piston II indeed. One of my very first purchases way back then. And, yup...'budget fi' was all the rage at the time! Haha, makes me smile thinking about it. Things have changed so much since then, haven't they? Good eye, matey.


----------



## samandhi

fonkepala said:


> Haha, yes, you're spot on! It is the Piston II indeed. One of my very first purchases way back then. And, yup...'budget fi' was all the rage at the time! Haha, makes me smile thinking about it. Things have changed so much since then, haven't they? Good eye, matey.


Very nice! Do you still have them? I actually still listen to mine sometimes. They really did have amazing sound for something like $12. I had the silver and white ones, and the brown and copper one (with the chocolate smell in the case)... 

I still use the extra tips from the white pair on my iBasso IT07..


Spoiler












They have indeed.


----------



## jrazmar (Aug 14, 2021)

Is it good to buy from Penon Audio? I'm eyeing on the TY Hi-Z earbuds and only them currently has the stock. I don't even know if they really have the stock as I have not tried contacting them or they just have not updated their website. Sadly, they don't have the F150TS and HP-650 models. I'm suspecting that TY and Seahf were related in some way specially in the way their earphones look and packaged.

I found this review: https://audio123reviews.com/2018/03/13/ty-hi-z-f150ts/ and sounds like that my Seahf F150c is a mix of both the 150S and F150TS so it got me curious. If someone here has either of these or even the HP-650 and feel like these babies are not getting any love, let me know and I can sign up for an adoption.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

jrazmar said:


> Is it good to buy from Penon Audio? I'm eyeing on the TY Hi-Z earbuds and only them currently has the stock. I don't even know if they really have the stock as I have not tried contacting them or they just have not updated their website. Sadly, they don't have the F150TS and HP-650 models. I'm suspecting that the TY and Seahf were related in some way specially in the way their earphones look and packaged.
> 
> I found this review: https://audio123reviews.com/2018/03/13/ty-hi-z-f150ts/ and sounds like that my Seahf F150c is a mix of both the 150S and F150TS so it got me curious. If someone here has either of these or even the HP-650 and feel like these babies are not getting any love, let me know and I can sign up for an adoption.


Some on this board have had bad customer experiences with Penon and others have not (I never had an issue; maybe I was lucky). Do a search in this thread and you'll see some of the more recent events/issues. I refrain from ordering from them now to support those fellow members that were mistreated.

Honestly, I think your Seahf F150c are a few leagues ahead! That is a rare driver you have in there.


----------



## Ronion

I think we should maybe make a list of approved/approved with reservation/ and not approved shops. It’s essentially impossible to buy earbuds from a source in America barring Amazon which has a very limited and overpriced selection vs Asia.  Problem is,we don’t know what’s a safe bet in Asia.  Believe it or not, I actually had the best customer service of my life from Penon, but the worst customer service through AliExpress.  SMABAT and Venture Electronics also had great customer service for me. I’d order from either of their shops without reservation.


----------



## jrazmar (Aug 14, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Some on this board have had bad customer experiences with Penon and others have not (I never had an issue; maybe I was lucky). Do a search in this thread and you'll see some of the more recent events/issues. I refrain from ordering from them now to support those fellow members that were mistreated.
> 
> Honestly, I think your Seahf F150c are a few leagues ahead! That is a rare driver you have in there.


You know what Woody I'll take your advice. I will hold on to my F150C for now. I love the sound and just today, the Ovidius DAC has arrived at my place and I'm very excited to hear what will it make the very insensitive F150C sound like. Perhaps I  could try the cheaper TY Hi-Z 32S first just to have a taste of the TY sound and it's available via Shoppe so it's safer and faster. Thanks Woody for letting me know what's going on around. It's so much fun being stuck here at the Earbuds thread that I have not even thought of looking elsewhere.


----------



## fonkepala

samandhi said:


> Very nice! Do you still have them? I actually still listen to mine sometimes. They really did have amazing sound for something like $12. I had the silver and white ones, and the brown and copper one (with the chocolate smell in the case)...
> 
> I still use the extra tips from the white pair on my iBasso IT07..


Ah yes, I've forgotten about that chocolate smell! Haha. Thanks for the photos and the trip down memory lane!
Yes, I still do have the Piston II in brown/copper. It's my 'beater' pair. It sounds good enough, convenient because it's worn cable down and is really handy when I know I'll be travelling rough or stuck in less-than-ideal listening environments where an earbud just wouldn't do. 



jrazmar said:


> You know what Woody I'll take your advice. I will hold on to my F150C for now. I love the sound and just today, the Ovidius DAC has arrived at my place and I'm very excited to hear what will it make the very insensitive F150C sound like. Perhaps I  could try the cheaper TY Hi-Z 32S first just to have a taste of the TY sound and it's available via Shoppe so it's safer and faster. Thanks Woody for letting me know what's going on around. It's so much fun being stuck here at the Earbuds thread that I have not even thought of looking elsewhere.


FYI, the TY Hi-Z 32 has a reputation of tending to sound rather 'hot'. IIRC, they sound fine to me. Maybe best to pair it with a warmer source or component down your audio chain.


----------



## Chessnaudio

Ronion said:


> I think we should maybe make a list of approved/approved with reservation/ and not approved shops. It’s essentially impossible to buy earbuds from a source in America barring Amazon which has a very limited and overpriced selection vs Asia.  Problem is,we don’t know what’s a safe bet in Asia.  Believe it or not, I actually had the best customer service of my life from Penon, but the worst customer service through AliExpress.  SMABAT and Venture Electronics also had great customer service for me. I’d order from either of their shops without reservation.


My experience with Penon Audio was excellent.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Aug 14, 2021)

Checking in after a little time off 



_Steve Howe & Martin Taylor - Masterpiece Guitars_

Taking into context the sort of material that I would consider "fit for earbuds," an album like this reminds me of a less stressful time. The sort of time I'd spend as a younger adult at Guitar Center just putzing around on guitars I'd never be able to buy (but loved to play) for hours; never being kicked out, but certainly overstaying my welcome. What I'm hearing on this album is what I was hearing in _those _demo rooms. Piped through the Monolith 788, there's just this healthy sense of space to everything; you can hear where the L/R balance in the mix is cut to make room for the rhythm and lead tracks (it's a pretty cool effect, like songs sandwiched in stereo).

Unfortunately, this is a SACD copy that I have for my own offline listening, but I highly encourage you to listen via the YT link I put above and try to let some of the stress melt away. This is some of the sweetest guitar music I've been able to put on in a while.


----------



## chompy

Hi, sorry for the maybe stupid question, but can I simply buy a 2.5mm / mmcx balanced cable to make my mmcx buds balanced and connect them to the balanced output of my dac? Thanks


----------



## jeejack (Aug 15, 2021)

chompy said:


> Hi, sorry for the maybe stupid question, but can I simply buy a 2.5mm / mmcx balanced cable to make my mmcx buds balanced and connect them to the balanced output of my dac? Thanks


Yes! Most of my buds have balanced cable


----------



## Ronion

It’s almost embarrassing how many great earbuds I have now.  The SMABAT M0 shells arrived the same day that my Xinhs cables did (TODAY)!  What a great surprise coming home from the COVID ward today To find this score!  Normally after a long blazing paced day in a COVID ward in the ”bunny suit” you are exhausted and DRY From all the dry air blowing in your face and sweating, but today the shower was fast and I had a sense of excitement.  The 40 Ohm drivers don’t sound all that different (from memory) in the M0 shell than they did in the M2s pro shell.  I’m sure I could pick out differences if I was able to switch them quickly back to back, but that’s not going to happen.  I’m sure than the M0 shell fits my ears better and I’m definitely psyched about the sound.  It probably helps that I can run them balanced because of the cable and it the nicest feeling/feeling cable I’ve ever owned.


----------



## chompy

jeejack said:


> Yes! Most of my buds have balanced cable


Thanks, and if I do not want to spend more than 30€ more or less on a 2.5mm/mmcx balanced cable, which ones would you recommend?


----------



## Ronion

Look at Xinhs cables and I’ve also heard that these are actually nice for considerably less money: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32977439182.html?mp=1

i will say I’m happy with my Xinhs for what they cost—I’ve certainly paid more Money for less Quality.


----------



## jeejack

chompy said:


> Thanks, and if I do not want to spend more than 30€ more or less on a 2.5mm/mmcx balanced cable, which ones would you recommend?


Any Nicehck, TRN and Kbear.
XINHS cables are also very good


----------



## fonkepala

chompy said:


> Thanks, and if I do not want to spend more than 30€ more or less on a 2.5mm/mmcx balanced cable, which ones would you recommend?


This a great cable for not much money, imho: 
https://shopee.com.my/****-6-Core-P...S6-ZST-ZSR-ZS5-ZSA-ES4-i.277329049.4540392892

If you don't have Shopee in your region, try to look for it on Aliexpress.


----------



## jeejack

fonkepala said:


> This a great cable for not much money, imho:
> https://shopee.com.my/****-6-Core-P...S6-ZST-ZSR-ZS5-ZSA-ES4-i.277329049.4540392892
> 
> If you don't have Shopee in your region, try to look for it on Aliexpress.


I love this cable


----------



## fonkepala

jeejack said:


> I love this cable


Likewise. BTW, what buds are those? It reminds me of the BK2.


----------



## chompy

jeejack said:


> I love this cable



Thanks @jeejack and @fonkepala

I don't have Shopee available here, but I've seen that they are available at Amazon for 20€:
https://www.amazon.es/****-audífono...d=1&keywords=B07F74YPTL&qid=1629036688&sr=8-1

But they also have the this 8 core silver plated cable for the same price:
https://www.amazon.es/reemplazo-act...eywords=2.5mm+mmcx&qid=1629035381&sr=8-1&th=1

Which one would you choose? Or for this price would you prefer some NiceHCK cables from Aliexpress?


----------



## vygas (Aug 15, 2021)

jrazmar said:


> Is it good to buy from Penon Audio? I'm eyeing on the TY Hi-Z earbuds and only them currently has the stock. I don't even know if they really have the stock as I have not tried contacting them or they just have not updated their website. Sadly, they don't have the F150TS and HP-650 models. I'm suspecting that TY and Seahf were related in some way specially in the way their earphones look and packaged.
> 
> I found this review: https://audio123reviews.com/2018/03/13/ty-hi-z-f150ts/ and sounds like that my Seahf F150c is a mix of both the 150S and F150TS so it got me curious. If someone here has either of these or even the HP-650 and feel like these babies are not getting any love, let me know and I can sign up for an adoption.


I've never really had any major issues with Penon, though the one issue I did have was more to do with the grey text "Yuin" PK3's I ordered a looooong time ago. Their photos used to show the white text variant which used the driver from the Nokia HS-23 (386XXXXXXX serial code) unlike the grey text version, which seem to use a different batch of drivers from the HS-23 (I suspect it was the 350XXXXXXX batch as the 474XXXXXXX are foster drivers with a different cover) that just sounds like everything below 200Hz doesn't exist. They seemed to have changed the photos now though.

TL;DR : This was more of an issue on Yuin's end than Penon but they still should've updated photos when they got the grey text batch in, and Penon did actually give me a partial refund in the end.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

fonkepala said:


> This a great cable for not much money, imho:
> 
> If you don't have Shopee in your region, try to look for it on Aliexpress.


https://a.aliexpress.com/_AVqS9A


----------



## jeejack

fonkepala said:


> Likewise. BTW, what buds are those? It reminds me of the BK2.


DIY earbuds


----------



## pfloyd

I have been enjoying my Smabot M1 pros for some time now, noticing that they like to have the volume nob turned up more than most, so I have been looking for a suitable balanced cable for it, especially since the stock cable is turning green. I’ve been reluctant though since I don’t care to wait the 5 weeks or so to get anything from AliExpress, plus the M1s are one of the few phones I have with mmcx cables and they do not have the best reliability record after frequent changes. Well I found a vender on Amazon called Fedai with a cable that looked like a good fit. It can be found here https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0965Q37VW. It’s an 8 core silver plated cable with no hooks, even though there is some slight hook memory, it is relaxing quickly, and with a good cinch, does not affect fit. The cable has nice haptics and soft drape, feels very comfortable. The mmcx connections seem pretty robust, although I will likely refrain from changing it too often. But best of all, when it’s hooked up to the balanced output of my Qudelix 5K it sounds glorious. The M1pro has the resolving power to really take advantage of the improved stereo separation and lower noise floor of the balanced output. It probably has one of the broadest and most accurate frequency responses of anything in my inventory. Makes me wonder how Smabots other offerings respond to a balanced output, pretty good I bet 🤔.


----------



## Ronion

Well, they done gone and did it…..(sorry for the lousy slang for non native English speakers).


----------



## Ronion

You can literally get TOTL performance now for $30!   Kids these days have it so easy compared to what we had it.  Now I sound even more like my grandfather.


----------



## chavez

Ronion said:


> You can literally get TOTL performance now for $30!   Kids these days have it so easy compared to what we had it.  Now I sound even more like my grandfather.


I ordered just yesterday 30$ worth of DIY parts. Damn.


----------



## nymz

chompy said:


> Thanks @jeejack and @fonkepala
> 
> I don't have Shopee available here, but I've seen that they are available at Amazon for 20€:
> https://www.amazon.es/****-audífono...d=1&keywords=B07F74YPTL&qid=1629036688&sr=8-1
> ...



I use xinhs for 95% of my cables and can vouche for them. The one I made for buds (mmcx 4.4mm), ultra light, ultra thin, no ear hooks :


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Avicii - Stories​
Tonight's choice is a little...bubblier than the usual fare, but play this album on the right gear and you'll be surprised how many musical goodies are hidden in each track. He's more than just the _Levels_ guy.


----------



## fonkepala

chompy said:


> Thanks @jeejack and @fonkepala
> 
> I don't have Shopee available here, but I've seen that they are available at Amazon for 20€:
> https://www.amazon.es/****-audífono-balanceado-desmontable-Auriculares/dp/B07F74YPTL/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_es_ES=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&dchild=1&keywords=B07F74YPTL&qid=1629036688&sr=8-1
> ...



Hmm, 20EUR is kinda steep IMHO. I bought it on Shopee for the equivalent of USD13.50, iirc. But, if you must go for Amazon (especially if you're concerned about returns, shipping time, etc) and if they're the same price, go for the latter one. I have that one too, although iirc it's not as soft & pliable as the former, but only just slightly.


----------



## fonkepala

Ronion said:


> You can literally get TOTL performance now for $30!   Kids these days have it so easy compared to what we had it.  Now I sound even more like my grandfather.


Wait, you mean I can just buy these two components (circled in red below) and then hook it up to an MMCX cable and essentially have myself a Smabat M0? I'm not familiar with Smabat products, especially the latest ones. Would appreciate some clarification, TIA.


----------



## samandhi

fonkepala said:


> Wait, you mean I can just buy these two components (circled in red below) and then hook it up to an MMCX cable and essentially have myself a Smabat M0? I'm not familiar with Smabat products, especially the latest ones. Would appreciate some clarification, TIA.


Yep, well somewhere in between the M0 and the M2S Pro(I can only assume that the driver listed in the pic is the default driver for the M2S Pro, 40 Ohms). These are similar to the more expensive M2S Pro, which are $65+ as a kit. The difference here is that normally you would also get drivers and a cable for $35 (basically a cheaper version of the M2S Pro). The default driver for the M0 is normally 20 Ohms vs. the 40 Ohms for the M2s Pro, and I also couldn't see where you can change the filters in these either like you can with the M2S Pro. So, for roughly $22USD you are getting everything but the cable. 

I can't speak to how well they sound though, because it looks like the shells are a different shape than the M2S Pro. But, if they are anything like either of the Smabat buds I have (M2S Pro stock driver and ST10S gold 150 Ohm driver), they will sound good to great.


----------



## Ronion

fonkepala said:


> Wait, you mean I can just buy these two components (circled in red below) and then hook it up to an MMCXthis will be a hot rod Ed  cable and essentially have myself a Smabat M0? I'm not familiar with Smabat products, especially the latest ones. Would appreciate some clarification, TIA.


Like @samandhi said that’s essentially it except it would be hot-rodded, or a beefed-up version.  They sound great for sure.  Leaner than the 150Ohm driver in the M2s pro shell, but great for the money!  I believe you can use the tuning nets with it, but I don’t think they are necessary at all.  The open port is supposed to have the most bass and that’s how I like them.  They are not over bassy(whatever that is) in the stock configuration.  My biggest problem with them is that they’ve gone missing.  This morning my wife said “wow, I really like that blue!  How do they sound?”  Well I foolishly let her listen to them because she’s always been happy with her Apple Ear Pods.  I was hoping she would like them, but not enough to confiscate them.  Well, I came home from work today and they are missing and she claims she doesn’t remember where she put them.  She doesn’t forget anything.  I mean ANYTHING.  My Venture Electronics case is strange missing as well and it’s my favorite case.  It fits the Qudelix and a set of buds perfectly.  @WoodyLuvr, I feel your pain.  I have no doubt she knows where they are because she was blown away by their sound AND though they looked awesome.  She wouldn’t lose them, I’m abs sure of that.  Now I just have to catch her in the act of listening to them.  I think I just made an audiophile of her, but I wasn’t trying to.


----------



## samandhi (Aug 16, 2021)

Ronion said:


> Like @samandhi said that’s essentially it except it would be hot-rodded, or a beefed-up version.  They sound great for sure.  Leaner than the 150Ohm driver in the M2s pro shell, but great for the money!  I believe you can use the tuning nets with it, but I don’t think they are necessary at all.  The open port is supposed to have the most bass and that’s how I like them.  They are not over bassy(whatever that is) in the stock configuration.  My biggest problem with them is that they’ve gone missing.  This morning my wife said “wow, I really like that blue!  How do they sound?”  Well I foolishly let her listen to them because she’s always been happy with her Apple Ear Pods.  I was hoping she would like them, but not enough to confiscate them.  Well, I came home from work today and they are missing and she claims she doesn’t remember where she put them.  She doesn’t forget anything.  I mean ANYTHING.  My Venture Electronics case is strange missing as well and it’s my favorite case.  It fits the Qudelix and a set of buds perfectly.  @WoodyLuvr, I feel your pain.  I have no doubt she knows where they are because she was blown away by their sound AND though they looked awesome.  She wouldn’t lose them, I’m abs sure of that.  Now I just have to catch her in the act of listening to them.  I think I just made an audiophile of her, but I wasn’t trying to.


That is both fantastic and sad all in the same breath! Sorry?? But Congratz??  

Edit: Oh, and all this is true ONLY if you are ready to "get started with a fever"...


----------



## tendou

samandhi said:


> Yep, well somewhere in between the M0 and the M2S Pro(I can only assume that the driver listed in the pic is the default driver for the M2S Pro, 40 Ohms). These are similar to the more expensive M2S Pro, which are $65+ as a kit. The difference here is that normally you would also get drivers and a cable for $35 (basically a cheaper version of the M2S Pro). The default driver for the M0 is normally 20 Ohms vs. the 40 Ohms for the M2s Pro, and I also couldn't see where you can change the filters in these either like you can with the M2S Pro. So, for roughly $22USD you are getting everything but the cable.
> 
> I can't speak to how well they sound though, because it looks like the shells are a different shape than the M2S Pro. But, if they are anything like either of the Smabat buds I have (M2S Pro stock driver and ST10S gold 150 Ohm driver), they will sound good to great.


I see that there are different Drivers. What would be the difference between them soundwise?


----------



## tendou

fonkepala said:


> Wait, you mean I can just buy these two components (circled in red below) and then hook it up to an MMCX cable and essentially have myself a Smabat M0? I'm not familiar with Smabat products, especially the latest ones. Would appreciate some clarification, TIA.


You're getting them?


----------



## samandhi

tendou said:


> I see that there are different Drivers. What would be the difference between them soundwise?


I can't speak from experience, but I would imagine they would have to be tuned a bit differently. As to which is better, will depend on what you like best.


----------



## baskingshark

Ronion said:


> Like @samandhi said that’s essentially it except it would be hot-rodded, or a beefed-up version.  They sound great for sure.  Leaner than the 150Ohm driver in the M2s pro shell, but great for the money!  I believe you can use the tuning nets with it, but I don’t think they are necessary at all.  The open port is supposed to have the most bass and that’s how I like them.  They are not over bassy(whatever that is) in the stock configuration.  My biggest problem with them is that they’ve gone missing.  This morning my wife said “wow, I really like that blue!  How do they sound?”  Well I foolishly let her listen to them because she’s always been happy with her Apple Ear Pods.  I was hoping she would like them, but not enough to confiscate them.  Well, I came home from work today and they are missing and she claims she doesn’t remember where she put them.  She doesn’t forget anything.  I mean ANYTHING.  My Venture Electronics case is strange missing as well and it’s my favorite case.  It fits the Qudelix and a set of buds perfectly.  @WoodyLuvr, I feel your pain.  I have no doubt she knows where they are because she was blown away by their sound AND though they looked awesome.  She wouldn’t lose them, I’m abs sure of that.  Now I just have to catch her in the act of listening to them.  I think I just made an audiophile of her, but I wasn’t trying to.



Haha sometimes I wished my wife was a bit more 'audiophile'.

She can't tell the difference between a $3 usd night bazaar pirated Beats earphone and the TOTL Dunu Luna on a desktop amp. Facepalm.

But anyway I am not at risk of getting my gear stolen like @WoodyLuvr and @Ronion haha. My wife is current very happily using a $1 Vido, so I will just let sleeping dogs lie.




tendou said:


> I see that there are different Drivers. What would be the difference between them soundwise?



Hi u can check out this small post I wrote about the Smabat M0 (younger sibiling of the M2S pro): 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16427874

There are some graphs of how the various dampers and drivers have different sound signatures. There are many permutations to play with in addition to different cables, foam types, wearing the earbud over ear/cable down and different shells, all these will change the sound.

The M2S pro shell gives a bit of fuller and warmer sound sig, whereas the M0 shell has a thinner note weight and sounds brighter (when same drivers are used).


----------



## fonkepala

tendou said:


> You're getting them?


Not yet, but maybe in future. After spending my hard-earned on two Blurs, I'm wiped out at the mo.


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> Haha sometimes I wished my wife was a bit more 'audiophile'.
> 
> She can't tell the difference between a $3 usd night bazaar pirated Beats earphone and the TOTL Dunu Luna on a desktop amp. Facepalm.
> 
> But anyway I am not at risk of getting my gear stolen like @WoodyLuvr and @Ronion haha. My wife is current very happily using a $1 Vido, so I will just let sleeping dogs lie.


I think something is wrong with Duna Luna


----------



## Ronion

baskingshark said:


> Hi u can check out this small post I wrote about the Smabat M0 (younger sibiling of the M2S pro):
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16427874
> 
> There are some graphs of how the various dampers and drivers have different sound signatures. There are many permutations to play with in addition to different cables, foam types, wearing the earbud over ear/cable down and different shells, all these will change the sound.
> ...


your experience, though better constructed and enunciated, mirrors the memory of mine. 

I found my missing M0 in my VE case in the drawer of my wife’s bedside table….  She “forgot” she had placed it there in an effort to be able to more easily find them in the morning and listen to her programs and not wake me.  So she stole my earbuds for my sake.  What a sweetheart?  She also changed the foams to white HieGi ones because it “looks better that way”.  I listened to them this morning and I actually prefer the sound of them with the HieGi.  They give the bottom end a bit more weight.

what I’ve noticed about earbuds is that the harder the diaphragm material, the more detailed the sound, but the sound doesn’t have resonances in the audible range like a lot of speaker diaphragms of hard materials do.  It also seems like the higher the impedance, the more warmth and weight the low end has and it seems to add just a touch more detail as well.  the whole balance I’m sure is effected by shell and tuning, but the general trend in what I have seems to go along with that When just changing the driver and nothing else.  My sample size is obviously too small to make any sweeping conclusions, but I can rationalize it so it must be true (joking).


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> your experience, though better constructed and enunciated, mirrors the memory of mine.
> 
> I found my missing M0 in my VE case in the drawer of my wife’s bedside table….  She “forgot” she had placed it there in an effort to be able to more easily find them in the morning and listen to her programs and not wake me.  So she stole my earbuds for my sake.  What a sweetheart?  She also changed the foams to white HieGi ones because it “looks better that way”.  I listened to them this morning and I actually prefer the sound of them with the HieGi.  They give the bottom end a bit more weight.
> 
> what I’ve noticed about earbuds is that the harder the diaphragm material, the more detailed the sound, but the sound doesn’t have resonances in the audible range like a lot of speaker diaphragms of hard materials do.  It also seems like the higher the impedance, the more warmth and weight the low end has and it seems to add just a touch more detail as well.  the whole balance I’m sure is effected by shell and tuning, but the general trend in what I have seems to go along with that When just changing the driver and nothing else.  My sample size is obviously too small to make any sweeping conclusions, but I can rationalize it so it must be true (joking).


This one is strong with the force audiophile! Sounds like she is a closet audiophile?! 

Great analysis! That aligns with my thoughts also. Not with Smabats (only have the 2 atm), but drivers in general.


----------



## yelloworange

Let me know if anyone has recommendations for a neutral/reference type sounding earbud. I currently listen on Sennheiser HD650, ATH-M50x, Shozy Stardust Bk, ST-10, and VE Zen LL. (Looking for budget and high end options). Thanks in advance


----------



## artpiggo

yelloworange said:


> Let me know if anyone has recommendations for a neutral/reference type sounding earbud. I currently listen on Sennheiser HD650, ATH-M50x, Shozy Stardust Bk, ST-10, and VE Zen LL. (Looking for budget and high end options). Thanks in advance


Earbud from Rose would be your choice.


----------



## samandhi

artpiggo said:


> Earbud from Rose would be your choice.


Not the Maria II though. It is neutral/bright with a fun factor, but I wouldn't call it reference at all. Great bud though!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

yelloworange said:


> Let me know if anyone has recommendations for a neutral/reference type sounding earbud. I currently listen on Sennheiser HD650, ATH-M50x, Shozy Stardust Bk, ST-10, and VE Zen LL. (Looking for budget and high end options). Thanks in advance


Good day. It would be helpful if we had a bit more info... hi-end options especially can be quite expensive:

_*source* (using a DAC/AMP/DAP/PC/smartphone/streamer; audio file type including bit & sample rate)_
_*preferred connection* (termination type e.g. 3.5SE/4.4TRRS/2.5mm; single-end vs balanced; mic/no mic)_
_*listening level & time* (volume, and for how long?)_
_*listening environment* (mobile/office desk/home desktop/listening room)_
_*preferred sound signature* (bright; flat/neutral; balanced/natural/smooth; dark/warm; extra bass/bassy; L/U/V-shaped)_
_*preferred genre* (rock, heavy metal, pop, classical, OST, hip-hop, R&B, Korean-Pop, EDM, podcasts, audiobooks, etc.)_
_*preferred shell type* (depends on your ears and personal comfort; please see *here*)_
_*preferred brand* (only applicable if asking for a model recommendation within a single brand)_
_*price range *(probably the most important; what are you willing/looking to spend?)_


----------



## WoodyLuvr

samandhi said:


> Not the Maria II though. It is neutral/bright with a fun factor, but I wouldn't call it reference at all. Great bud though!


Concur, Maria I & II are bright sounding but damn do they have a wondrously wide soundstage. *@ClieOS *describes the Maria II quite well: "_As for sound - think of it with a sound signature between SimPhonio D2+ and D3 - bright and very well extended treble, somewhat warm on the mid range, good deep punching but moderate low-end with a super massive soundstage. Listening to it pretty much equal to listening a miniature open back on-ear rather than an earbud. because of how 'out-of-the-ear' it sounds, even wider than the original Maria and definitely the widest sounding earbud in the market._"


----------



## artpiggo

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur, Maria I & II are bright sounding but damn do they have a wondrously wide soundstage. *@ClieOS *describes the Maria II quite well: "_As for sound - think of it with a sound signature between SimPhonio D2+ and D3 - bright and very well extended treble, somewhat warm on the mid range, good deep punching but moderate low-end with a super massive soundstage. Listening to it pretty much equal to listening a miniature open back on-ear rather than an earbud. because of how 'out-of-the-ear' it sounds, even wider than the original Maria and definitely the widest sounding earbud in the market._"


can't wait to see their planned Rose Maxim.


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur, Maria I & II are bright sounding but damn do they have a wondrously wide soundstage. *@ClieOS *describes the Maria II quite well: "_As for sound - think of it with a sound signature between SimPhonio D2+ and D3 - bright and very well extended treble, somewhat warm on the mid range, good deep punching but moderate low-end with a super massive soundstage. Listening to it pretty much equal to listening a miniature open back on-ear rather than an earbud. because of how 'out-of-the-ear' it sounds, even wider than the original Maria and definitely the widest sounding earbud in the market._"


OMG they are indeed wide! I would put them up against the HD800 (or its little brother HD700 which I own) for how wide they are. As for the sound sig @ClieOS is pretty spot on. I WILL have to say though, the Chaconne aren't too far away from being that wide. They also have a massive soundstage to them.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

artpiggo said:


> can't wait to see their planned Rose Maxim.


Concur... here is a prototype of the Rose Maxim that* @ClieOS *shared if you already haven't seen it:


----------



## samandhi

artpiggo said:


> can't wait to see their planned Rose Maxim.


Any links or info on these?


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur... here is a prototype of the Rose Maxim that* @ClieOS *shared if you already haven't seen it:


Those look fantastic (kinda' looks like a double barreled shotgun )! I hope they decide (in the final product) to go with detachable cable though.


----------



## Ronion

They look like something I DON'T  need.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> They look like something I DON'T  need.


I am right there with you on that one...


----------



## furyossa (Aug 17, 2021)

samandhi said:


> Those look fantastic (kinda' looks like a double barreled shotgun )! I hope they decide (in the final product) to go with detachable cable though.


Interesting design for sure, but it doesn’t have to look this complicated. I totally agree with the implementation of a separate bass port,
but with a stem designed like this, MMCX version would look ridiculous, like a shotgun with silencer


----------



## artpiggo

For me, it design look like auglamor


----------



## furyossa

artpiggo said:


> For me, it design look like auglamor


Nope. They are totally different "species"   Rx1 looks nice at first glance but has too many flaws especially when it comes to acoustics


----------



## baskingshark

furyossa said:


> Nope. They are totally different "species"   Rx1 looks nice at first glance but has too many flaws especially when it comes to acoustics



Haven't tried any Auglamour earbuds, but for their IEMs, their rep in the audio world is that they look much better than they sound haha.


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> Haven't tried any Auglamour earbuds, but for their IEMs, their rep in the audio world is that they look much better than they sound haha.


The same goes for earbuds, although I think the situation is even worse.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-13586848


----------



## harryyeo

Been listening to Zen LL, it's currently my favourite earbuds to chill with now.

Side note: Interesting to see Moondrop started selling their own brand of self-heating hotpots in Taobao. Wonder how they would taste.


----------



## yelloworange

WoodyLuvr said:


> Good day. It would be helpful if we had a bit more info... hi-end options especially can be quite expensive:
> 
> _*source* (using a DAC/AMP/DAP/PC/smartphone/streamer; audio file type including bit & sample rate)_
> _*preferred connection* (termination type e.g. 3.5SE/4.4TRRS/2.5mm; single-end vs balanced; mic/no mic)_
> ...



_source - Fiio Q3/Phone/Flac/Wav_
_preferred connection-2.5mm/3.5mm_
_listening level & time - 30-65% /a few hours_
_listening environment-at home_
_preferred sound signature-neutral/balanced or something with a reference type sound signature (currently listening on sennhesier hd650, ath-m50x, shozy stardust bk, smabat st-10, ve zen ll)_
_preferred genre -rock, funk, soul, electronic, ambient _
_preferred shell type-pk or custom but i’m not that picky_
_price range - looking for budget and high end options in the earbud realm so i don’t really have one but it’d be nice to have multiple options to try_


----------



## Ronion (Aug 18, 2021)

You know, last night when I was listening to an orchestral piece through the M0 shell with the 40 ohm driver powered by the Little Bear B4X, for the first time in my life I felt completely immersed with only a hint of vagueness in the frontal sound field.  It was the most enveloped I have ever been by music.  It was the clearest vision of an auditory scene that I have ever experienced from headphone reproduction.  I’m going to try it again tonight, but I’m certain there is some sort of magic in this combination.  The mild warmth, weight, and low order distortion combined with a slightly reeled in horizontal sound field by the B4X seems to be exactly what those buds need.  I was absolutely center stage in an intimate hall reveling in the artists‘ utter mastery of their collective crafts.  Immersed in my imagination and alleviated from the tyrannies of the world in which I actually exist, surrendered to the beauty of possibilities, I could not help but appreciated what splendor $130 could buy me


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> You know, last night when I was listening to an orchestral piece through the M0 shell with the 40 ohm driver powered by the Little Bear B4X, for the first time in my life I felt completely immersed with only a hint of vagueness in the frontal sound field.  It was the most enveloped I have ever been by music.  it was the clearest vision of an auditory scene that I have ever experienced From headphone reproduction.  I’m going to try it again tonight, but I’m certain there is some sort of magic in this combination.  The mild warm, weight, and low order distortion combined with a mildly reeled in horizontal sound field by the B4X seems to be exactly what those buds need.  I was absolutely center stage in an intimate hall reveling in the artists‘ utter mastery of their collective crafts.  Immersed in my imagination and alleviated from the tyrannies of the world in which I actually exist, surrendered to the beauty of possibilities, I could not help but appreciated what splendor $130 could buy me


Maybe you had better tell your wife so she doesn't end up thinking you are cheating on her?!  Seriosly though, that is what it is all about. Also known as end game! Congratz!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

yelloworange said:


> _source - Fiio Q3/Phone/Flac/Wav_
> _preferred connection-2.5mm/3.5mm_
> _listening level & time - 30-65% /a few hours_
> _listening environment-at home_
> ...


To be honest your Shozy Stardust BKs are going to be really hard to beat as their signature is nearly neutral... very natural and airy sounding while ever so slightly leaning towards warm... almost like an upside down U signature.  So they are not too far off from being reference with most music genres. What don't you like about them? That may offer us some additional help in determining a recommendation for you.

BTW: Which model BK do you have? The original (brown cable) or the newer version (dark grey cable)? The older original version is ever so slightly warmer sounding and some people found them to be less dry (lifeless) than the newer version (which I never noticed but others do have better ears than mine).


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Maybe you had better tell your wife so she doesn't end up thinking you are cheating on her?!  Seriosly though, that is what it is all about. Also known as end game! Congratz!


LOL!  I May have to buy another set of these shells!  She doesn’t seem interested in trying others, but I’ve got to have this again…


----------



## yelloworange (Aug 18, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> To be honest your Shozy Stardust BKs are going to be really hard to beat as their signature is nearly neutral... very natural and airy sounding while ever so slightly leaning towards warm... almost like an upside down U signature.  So they are not too far off from being reference with most music genres. What don't you like about them? That may offer us some additional help in determining a recommendation for you.
> 
> BTW: Which model BK do you have? The original (brown cable) or the newer version (dark grey cable)? The older original version is ever so slightly warmer sounding and some people found them to be less dry (lifeless) than the newer version (which I never noticed but others do have better ears than mine).


I have the brown cable and I love the Shozy Bk- just looking for some other options for the sake of collecting and trying new earbuds. A few in particular I wanted to try are the Zen 2.0,  chaconne, ebx21, custom builders (blur/btg), Nicehck Diy Mx500, ms16 let me know if you’ve tried any of those


----------



## nymz

yelloworange said:


> I have the brown cable and I love the Shozy Bk- just looking for some other options for the sake of collecting and trying new earbuds. A few in particular I wanted to try are the Zen 2.0,  chaconne, ebx21, custom builders (blur/btg), Nicehck Diy Mx500, ms16 let me know if you’ve tried any of those



Zen 2.0 is very balanced, you might like it. Altho, for the price, go straight to blurs and ask for what you want, signature-wise and be done with  reached end game very quickly once I got Wong's package


----------



## yelloworange

nymz said:


> Zen 2.0 is very balanced, you might like it. Altho, for the price, go straight to blurs and ask for what you want, signature-wise and be done with  reached end game very quickly once I got Wong's package


What sets the blurs apart


----------



## nymz

yelloworange said:


> What sets the blurs apart



I'd say house tuning and detail, for sure. Clarity is over 9000 and layering is so gracious that seems wong stuck 3 DDs there and not just one.


----------



## chinmie

yelloworange said:


> _source - Fiio Q3/Phone/Flac/Wav_
> _preferred connection-2.5mm/3.5mm_
> _listening level & time - 30-65% /a few hours_
> _listening environment-at home_
> ...





WoodyLuvr said:


> To be honest your Shozy Stardust BKs are going to be really hard to beat as their signature is nearly neutral... very natural and airy sounding while ever so slightly leaning towards warm... almost like an upside down U signature.  So they are not too far off from being reference with most music genres. What don't you like about them? That may offer us some additional help in determining a recommendation for you.
> 
> BTW: Which model BK do you have? The original (brown cable) or the newer version (dark grey cable)? The older original version is ever so slightly warmer sounding and some people found them to be less dry (lifeless) than the newer version (which I never noticed but others do have better ears than mine).



what do you think about the SWD2 or 3? it's a bit different than BK on mids presentation (BK is more of a front row seat, while SWD a few rows back) , but overall i think they're also natural sounding


----------



## nymz

For those interested and for those who asked previously, my VE RAP5, Odyssey HD and Monk SM should arrive (finally) this week. They have been on the country for a couple of days now, should be any day now.

I have been enjoying my Blurs so not touching anything else, but I'm very busy at work, so no critical listening really. I hope to get some done in the incoming days and I want to get that Amp so I can finally compare Zen to other stuff.

After all of that I might sell some buds >.>


----------



## samandhi

yelloworange said:


> I have the brown cable and I love the Shozy Bk- just looking for some other options for the sake of collecting and trying new earbuds. A few in particular I wanted to try are the Zen 2.0,  chaconne, ebx21, custom builders (blur/btg), Nicehck Diy Mx500, ms16 let me know if you’ve tried any of those


I can't speak to most of those on your list, but I do have the Chaconne. As of right now, they are my favorite, though they might seem a bit "bass light" to some. They are pretty linear across the FR curve, except the bass. It is mostly all there, but lacking in presense. I EQ some bass into them because most of the music I listen to needs some bass to sound less lifeless. I would put them higher up the scale than many IEMs and headphones also...They are that good IMO.


----------



## chinmie

yelloworange said:


> I have the brown cable and I love the Shozy Bk- just looking for some other options for the sake of collecting and trying new earbuds. A few in particular I wanted to try are the Zen 2.0,  chaconne, ebx21, custom builders (blur/btg), Nicehck Diy Mx500, ms16 let me know if you’ve tried any of those



MS16 is good, i really recommend it. 
Zen 2.0 will need a higher gain amp to open up the bass and treble, i prefer a brighter amp with it. with no amp the sound is a bit mellow, lacking bite/dynamics. also using any foams would push the treble more to the darker/more mellow side. 
i haven't listened the other earbuds on that list yet


----------



## Ronion

Zen 2.0 sort of sound like my Zen Lite—I’ve learned to boost the treble and cut the mid bass using the Qudelix


----------



## jao29

How does the Ksearphone LBBS compare to the Onmyoji? I’m kind of eyeing the lbbs because of the bell typed shells, and if the sound isn’t too far off, I might snag a pair. 😊


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Just hopped on to say goodbye. Maybe for a while, maybe permanently. Veterans on this forum need to change their tune.

I will not be attending CanJam and I will not be providing this site with any more content. I wish you all the best should you choose to stay here, but I can no longer support what Head-Fi has become.

Goodbye.


----------



## digititus

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Just hopped on to say goodbye. Maybe for a while, maybe permanently. Veterans on this forum need to change their tune.
> 
> I will not be attending CanJam and I will not be providing this site with any more content. I wish you all the best should you choose to stay here, but I can no longer support what Head-Fi has become.
> 
> Goodbye.


Hope to see you again in a more tranquil setting. In the meantime, happy listening.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 18, 2021)

yelloworange said:


> I have the brown cable and I love the Shozy Bk- just looking for some other options for the sake of collecting and trying new earbuds. A few in particular I wanted to try are the Zen 2.0,  chaconne, ebx21, custom builders (blur/btg), Nicehck Diy Mx500, ms16 let me know if you’ve tried any of those


Owned and or listened to most all of those... the NiceHCK DIY MX500 has great timbre and easy listening (non-fatiguing) a tad lacking in the sub-bass but still an overall nice bass response.

Take a gander at my *God-Tier List*.


yelloworange said:


> What sets the blurs apart


They are timbre monsters; astoundingly resolute in detailing and imaging. The Blur house sound (tuning) is quite unique... offering an airy, open & natural, highly timbred mid-centric signature. Check out the *Blur Earbuds Lovers Thread*.


chinmie said:


> what do you think about the SWD2 or 3? it's a bit different than BK on mids presentation (BK is more of a front row seat, while SWD a few rows back) , but overall i think they're also natural sounding


Great call out *@chinmie*! Concur, the Simphonios are very balanced sounding and close to reference. Where the Shozy Stardust BK earbuds tend to lean towards the warm with a wonderful sense of smoothness... Simphonio SWD2/SWD2+/SWD3 earbuds tend to lean towards the bright with fantastic imaging coupled with a lively quick sound.


----------



## nymz

So I could finally do some 1v1 testing of M2S Pro (150ohm) vs LBBS on my quiet space, both used down and not over the ear. I only had a cable with ear hooks before, so I had to wait for my new cable to arrive and to have some free time. My opinion follows:

Used dropped down: *LBBS < M2S Pro 150ohm <  M2S Pro Stock*

Over the ear: *M2S Pro 150ohm <= LBBS < M2S Pro Stock*

In my opinion, *LBBS *stands out for the easiest rec below 50$ and can be EQ'd to X6 FR, while having the best confort ever.

Now I just need to get my hands on my VE Amps to do some test runs on my VE Zen 2.0 vs other stuff, and I'm done. Might sell some stuff later, but my end-game has been found so I'm quite happy for now. Maybe I dive into DIY stuff later down the road.

Have also incoming (for 2 months now, should arrive anyday now) the RY4S Plus 32ohm and RY4S 300ohm, and I'll make sure to give it a spin


----------



## nymz

WoodyLuvr said:


> They are timbre monsters; astoundingly resolute in detailing and imaging. The Blur house sound (tuning) is quite unique... offering an airy, open & natural, highly timbred mid-centric signature. Check out the *Blur Earbuds Lovers Thread*.



Not to sound like a shill, but leagues above everything I've heard so far.


----------



## nymz

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Just hopped on to say goodbye. Maybe for a while, maybe permanently. Veterans on this forum need to change their tune.
> 
> I will not be attending CanJam and I will not be providing this site with any more content. I wish you all the best should you choose to stay here, but I can no longer support what Head-Fi has become.
> 
> Goodbye.



Sad to see you go. Hope you find your happy place somewhere else and that we see eachother again. Thanks for your contribution!


----------



## fonkepala (Aug 18, 2021)

harryyeo said:


> Been listening to Zen LL, it's currently my favourite earbuds to chill with now.
> 
> Side note: Interesting to see Moondrop started selling their own brand of self-heating hotpots in Taobao. Wonder how they would taste.


Can you give more detailed thoughts on the Zen LL? I already have a pair, just would like to know if you're hearing what I am.



nymz said:


> So I could finally do some 1v1 testing of M2S Pro (150ohm) vs LBBS on my quiet space, both used down and not over the ear. I only had a cable with ear hooks before, so I had to wait for my new cable to arrive and to have some free time. My opinion follows:
> 
> Used dropped down: *LBBS < M2S Pro 150ohm <  M2S Pro Stock*
> 
> ...


I assume you have no fit issues with the LBBs? 

As for the RY4S Plus, it's no slouch. Certainly very good for the price and/or punches way above it's price point. I've been listening to it for the past 3 days.



nymz said:


> Not to sound like a shill, but leagues above everything I've heard so far.


I concur. Get a pair of Blurs and you're pretty much in endgame-land.


----------



## Ronion

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Just hopped on to say goodbye. Maybe for a while, maybe permanently. Veterans on this forum need to change their tune.
> 
> I will not be attending CanJam and I will not be providing this site with any more content. I wish you all the best should you choose to stay here, but I can no longer support what Head-Fi has become.
> 
> Goodbye.


I don’t know what happened, but I’ll certainly miss your content and candor.  I wish you the best.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Just hopped on to say goodbye. Maybe for a while, maybe permanently. Veterans on this forum need to change their tune.
> 
> I will not be attending CanJam and I will not be providing this site with any more content. I wish you all the best should you choose to stay here, but I can no longer support what Head-Fi has become.
> 
> Goodbye.


You will be missed by myself _and_ the community! Hope to see you here again sometime?!


----------



## nymz

fonkepala said:


> I assume you have no fit issues with the LBBs?



None, best fit and confort of my collection.


----------



## jeejack

nymz said:


> So I could finally do some 1v1 testing of M2S Pro (150ohm) vs LBBS on my quiet space, both used down and not over the ear. I only had a cable with ear hooks before, so I had to wait for my new cable to arrive and to have some free time. My opinion follows:
> 
> Used dropped down: *LBBS < M2S Pro 150ohm <  M2S Pro Stock*
> 
> ...



I hope you are not disappointed with the RY4S 300ohm version


----------



## nymz

jeejack said:


> I hope you are not disappointed with the RY4S 300ohm version



Time will tell! But don't think I will. For any sake, they costed anything like 8€!

I'm very disappointed tho with customs and couriers. **** that people. And yes, I am mad. Very mad.


----------



## samandhi

Got my Yincrow RW2000 in the mail today. WOW! The cable on these is almost worth the price by itself. Not much chance to listen yet, but here are a couple of snapshots. 



Spoiler: Yincrow RW2000


----------



## chinmie

samandhi said:


> Got my Yincrow RW2000 in the mail today. WOW! The cable on these is almost worth the price by itself. Not much chance to listen yet, but here are a couple of snapshots.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Yincrow RW2000



please do share your thoughts on this. I've just read @WoodyLuvr  's God-tier list and my interest has just got "tickled"


----------



## samandhi

chinmie said:


> please do share your thoughts on this. I've just read @WoodyLuvr  's God-tier list and my interest has just got "tickled"


At first listen, I would have to agree that they do indeed belong on the "God-tier list" (as well as the Chaconne, and the Maria II also). But I will share my thoughts after I get a little listening time with them. Short answer (with only about 1 hour on them) is:


----------



## assassin10000

Took some measurements on my rig.

ST-10 vs K's LBBs '21
1/6 smoothing and normalized at 1k.


----------



## nymz

assassin10000 said:


> Took some measurements on my rig.
> 
> ST-10 vs K's LBBs '21
> 1/6 smoothing and normalized at 1k.



Thanks for this! Do you have M2S pro or ST-10 gold?


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 19, 2021)

nymz said:


> Thanks for this! Do you have M2S pro or ST-10 gold?


Nope.

No plans for them either, as most 15.4mm drivers are a hair too big to be comfortable to me (smaller concha).


----------



## baskingshark

Headsup, there's a big Aliexpress sale on 23.08.21 (END OF SEASON SALE).

Seems the Kearphones Bell-LB/Bell-LBs will be on sale in a few days time: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html

Any other good deals??


----------



## nymz

baskingshark said:


> Headsup, there's a big Aliexpress sale on 23.08.21 (END OF SEASON SALE).
> 
> Seems the Kearphones Bell-LB/Bell-LBs will be on sale in a few days time: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html
> 
> Any other good deals??



Chaconne will be on sale, 40€ off


----------



## Min2 (Aug 19, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Headsup, there's a big Aliexpress sale on 23.08.21 (END OF SEASON SALE).
> 
> Seems the Kearphones Bell-LB/Bell-LBs will be on sale in a few days time: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html


In this thread people talked about new / old? Lbb / LBBs and one is not as good as the other. Can someone point me out which one is which in this listing?

On topic, there's going to be Smabat M2SPro deal for 44$


----------



## nymz

Min2 said:


> In this thread people talked about new / old? Lbb / LBBs and one is not as good as the other. Can someone point me out which one is which in this listing?
> 
> On topic, there's going to be Smabat M2SPro deal for 44$



llb*S *is the best one


----------



## RikudouGoku

Min2 said:


> In this thread people talked about new / old? Lbb / LBBs and one is not as good as the other. Can someone point me out which one is which in this listing?
> 
> On topic, there's going to be Smabat M2SPro deal for 44$


LBB*S*, the LBB is a joke compared to it.


----------



## chinmie

i was listening to this first with my IEM: first with the Tin T2 Plus (which i paired with BT20S pro)... feels like something's lacking.. not enjoyable enough. then i tried my LZA7, still missing something.. then i tried the MS16 that happens to be inside my box of current rotation earphones.. 

man.. i stuck to the MS16 for the entire album..
Moments like this always reminds me how our beloved earbuds always seems to punch really high above their price level


----------



## fonkepala

chinmie said:


> i was listening to this first with my IEM: first with the Tin T2 Plus (which i paired with BT20S pro)... feels like something's lacking.. not enjoyable enough. then i tried my LZA7, still missing something.. then i tried the MS16 that happens to be inside my box of current rotation earphones..
> 
> man.. i stuck to the MS16 for the entire album..
> Moments like this always reminds me how our beloved earbuds always seems to punch really high above their price level



+1. I haven't listened to the MS16 for quite a while. I might pull them out of storage and into rotation again soon thanks to your post.


----------



## Ronion

chinmie said:


> i was listening to this first with my IEM: first with the Tin T2 Plus (which i paired with BT20S pro)... feels like something's lacking.. not enjoyable enough. then i tried my LZA7, still missing something.. then i tried the MS16 that happens to be inside my box of current rotation earphones..
> 
> man.. i stuck to the MS16 for the entire album..
> Moments like this always reminds me how our beloved earbuds always seems to punch really high above their price level



Since hearing more modern earbuds, I just can’t understand how they lost popularity.  Competition is high and value is better than I could have imagined a year ago(when it had been over a decade since I heard an earbud).  I’ve never heard the ms16, but your not the first person to make a remark regarding their sound quality And value.  No doubt you had a good night.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Since hearing more modern earbuds, I just can’t understand how they lost popularity.  Competition is high and value is better than I could have imagined a year ago(when it had been over a decade since I heard an earbud).  I’ve never heard the ms16, but your not the first person to make a remark regarding their sound quality And value.  No doubt you had a good night.


I totally agree with this whole paragraph. Though, I think they weren't ever really popular because people loved the sound from them. They were given with iPods, and that made them popular (in the beginning) because of convenience and you couldn't destroy them. They became associated with the mp3 movement (which means they didn't have to sound REALLY good). Since the advent of modern tech, people just don't know about them. I can say this with confidence, because I thought the same thing up until I joined this thread. I couldn't imagine how they could sound very good. On the other side of things, you have IEM manufacturers preaching that if you don't get a proper seal with them, there is something wrong, and they won't sound right (for instance). This lends to the stigma that buds can't sound good IMO. So, really it is more a marketing thing as to why they aren't more popular since they have gotten really good. 

It wasn't until I saw someone on the DX300 thread that was talking about how so very good their buds sounded through a $1200 DAP, and I thought, "OK! They HAVE to sound better than they used to if someone is willing to use them on a TOTL DAP". I was curious, and that began my adventure fall down the rabbit hole.  In hindsight I am glad that I did though! 

I have at least three pairs that sound better than, all but the best, IEMs I have. And at a fraction of the cost I paid for the IEMs. I would say that If you bought nothing but TOTL buds, you would still be saving money, if you have already been down this rabbit hole for IEMs or headphones (for instance the $300 Chaconne absolutely compare to the $1k IT07 IEMs). Color me VERY impressed with how far earbuds have come.  

_Disclaimer; I could be totally wrong, this is just how I see it from the perspective of someone that thought earbuds were a toy for children that didn't care about good sound because that is the last time I listened to them._


----------



## Braekfast

Hi gang, I've been enjoying my Datura Pro for a couple of months now. Which were also a recommendation from this thread, so thanks for that. They still work fine, but the shell tends to pop loose every once in a while on both sides. While I'm gonna try and fix it with some glue or tape, I am going to use this as an excuse opportunity to get myself something new to play around with 

On that note, I was wondering what buds are the deals of the moment right now? I quite like the Datura Pros, I run them straight off my smartphone, using wavelet to just a little bit to the bass/low end. But apparently they're out of production. I've seen the Bell-LBS pop up a few times in the thread over the past pages. Also the Smabat modular pieces. Let me start off with the template.

_*source* Redmi Note 8 -> VE Odyssey dongle dac_
_*preferred connection* 3.5SE_
_*listening level & time* Usually 35-ish% volume with my current buds, for anywhere between half an hour to a couple of hours at a time_
_*listening environment* Strictly at home, a lot of it during the evening and at night in a quiet room_
_*preferred sound signature* I think smooth and slightly warm? I'm unsure how to really describe it. I like to hear everything, including the little aftersounds of the guitar strings for example, which is why I generally add a little bit of low end because otherwise that gets lost. I'm a bit sensitive to high sounds, so some headphones sound harsh to me when there's flutes and such. 
To give some examples: For headphones I still enjoy my HD555's, K701 (if EQ'd through wavelet), KSC75 and KPH30i. I've had a shure srh440, but they sounded too dry for me. I've also had portapros but those were just a bit too dark for my taste. 
For earbuds, I liked the OG monks, the niceHK B40, and the datura. I did not like the monk+ or the ME80's. Though granted, I may have gotten a dud or a knockoff of the ME80, since they sounded truly awful, just very harsh and thin with absolutely no low end. _
_*preferred genre* Usage will be mostly OST's, Piano/Guitar pieces with vocals, Metal and podcasts. With a healthy dose of electronic music and jazz thrown in there. _
_*preferred shell type* none_
_*preferred brand* none_
_*price range *(Up to 50 euro for sure. I might go to 100 if there's a truly stellar option. _

The Smabat pieces seem nice. 30-ish euro for M0 shell + cable + 40ohm driver. Though I'm unsure what effect the two different shells have, considering the other one is almost 3 times the price. 
So far I haven't really looked at higher ohm drivers/buds (like the 100/150ohm Smabats) since I'm unsure if running them through my phone+dongle dac will give enough juice. 

Any recommendations or tips are appreciated.


----------



## Ronion

I think you are totally correct @samandhi !  I’ve got $30 M0 that compete with $250 IEMs.  They each have their own strengths and weaknesses, but I personally prefer the $30 buds and the $250 IEMs are generally considered a bargain by the vast majority of reviewers.


----------



## nymz

Braekfast said:


> Hi gang, I've been enjoying my Datura Pro for a couple of months now. Which were also a recommendation from this thread, so thanks for that. They still work fine, but the shell tends to pop loose every once in a while on both sides. While I'm gonna try and fix it with some glue or tape, I am going to use this as an excuse opportunity to get myself something new to play around with
> 
> On that note, I was wondering what buds are the deals of the moment right now? I quite like the Datura Pros, I run them straight off my smartphone, using wavelet to just a little bit to the bass/low end. But apparently they're out of production. I've seen the Bell-LBS pop up a few times in the thread over the past pages. Also the Smabat modular pieces. Let me start off with the template.
> 
> ...



Check LBBS. Theres couple of posts talking about it in this thread


----------



## Ronion

Braekfast said:


> Hi gang, I've been enjoying my Datura Pro for a couple of months now. Which were also a recommendation from this thread, so thanks for that. They still work fine, but the shell tends to pop loose every once in a while on both sides. While I'm gonna try and fix it with some glue or tape, I am going to use this as an excuse opportunity to get myself something new to play around with
> 
> On that note, I was wondering what buds are the deals of the moment right now? I quite like the Datura Pros, I run them straight off my smartphone, using wavelet to just a little bit to the bass/low end. But apparently they're out of production. I've seen the Bell-LBS pop up a few times in the thread over the past pages. Also the Smabat modular pieces. Let me start off with the template.
> 
> ...


I will say that the M0 with the 40 Ohm drivers are slightly bright of neutral even without using any tuning nets (which makes them as warm as they go).  I use both thicker foams (HeiGi) and a tube amp to bring them to my personal preference.  I like them out of the box and they are definitely a detailed bud (not just elevated treble/false detail), but I wouldn’t describe them as warm or mellow.


----------



## RikudouGoku

samandhi said:


> I totally agree with this whole paragraph. Though, I think they weren't ever really popular because people loved the sound from them. They were given with iPods, and that made them popular (in the beginning) because of convenience and you couldn't destroy them. They became associated with the mp3 movement (which means they didn't have to sound REALLY good). Since the advent of modern tech, people just don't know about them. I can say this with confidence, because I thought the same thing up until I joined this thread. I couldn't imagine how they could sound very good.


Also because I believe those earbuds back then sounded so bad, that people have written them off before giving them a chance again. 

Doesnt help that a lot of brands out there are using the term earbud, when they actually mean iem..
(like AKG)










samandhi said:


> the other side of things, you have IEM manufacturers preaching that if you don't get a proper seal with them, there is something wrong, and they won't sound right (for instance). This lends to the stigma that buds can't sound good IMO.


You cant really compare the seal aspect like that, they are entirely different in that regard.




Ronion said:


> I’ve got $30 M0 that compete with $250 IEMs


If we are talking about acoustic/vocal music, then yeah. I dont see iems beating earbuds at all. But for other genres, like trance or hip-hop its the opposite.


----------



## samandhi

Braekfast said:


> Hi gang, I've been enjoying my Datura Pro for a couple of months now. Which were also a recommendation from this thread, so thanks for that. They still work fine, but the shell tends to pop loose every once in a while on both sides. While I'm gonna try and fix it with some glue or tape, I am going to use this as an excuse opportunity to get myself something new to play around with
> 
> On that note, I was wondering what buds are the deals of the moment right now? I quite like the Datura Pros, I run them straight off my smartphone, using wavelet to just a little bit to the bass/low end. But apparently they're out of production. I've seen the Bell-LBS pop up a few times in the thread over the past pages. Also the Smabat modular pieces. Let me start off with the template.
> 
> ...


Until I read the price range, I was going to suggest the Yincrow RW2000. They seem to fit everything that you are after... Matter of fact, I actually thought of Sennheiser a bit when I plopped them into my ears. They are tuned in such a way that they are the most versatile buds I have heard. They don't do any genre perfect, but they can do ALL genres superbly IMO... You can find them as low as $138USD on Aliexpress (not sure where else though). 

It also depends on what frequencies you are sensitive to. For myself I am sensitive in the 2-5k region (where Chinese manufacturers like to boost for clarity and upper mids). If you are also, then the Smabats are a bit guilty of this, though less so than others I have heard. Of all the ones I have the Chaconnes, and the Yincrow are the two that absolutely do NOT have a boost in this region to my ears. the Smabat ST10S gold is a 150ohm and is less guilty of this and has a better lower end than most. These sound fine from my phone (Samsung Note 9), though if you want crazy volumes, you might have to worry about it. To my ears, the Smabat M2S Pro are a bit on the shouty side, though listening to them a week straight either calmed them down, or killed my hearing in that range...  But every time I put them back in, they are on the shouty side again. 

For more fine tuned help, you might try THIS?! It is a tone generator, and you can use it to pinpoint where you are sensitive. From the way you describe what you like to hear, you seem to be sensitive in the same area as myself, because I LOVE details (derived from mid to upper treble), but am sensitive to upper mids and lower treble.

Just my thoughts, and you can disregard if you disagree...


----------



## Ronion

Those original Apple earbuds made me swear off earbuds (“forever“ as I thought then).


----------



## samandhi

RikudouGoku said:


> Also because I believe those earbuds back then sounded so bad, that people have written them off before giving them a chance again.
> 
> Doesnt help that a lot of brands out there are using the term earbud, when they actually mean iem..
> (like AKG)


Agree with this.

Didn't think of that aspect, but you are totally right. Here in the US doing a search for earbuds is all but impossible, since it mostly brings up IEMs and TWS nowadays...


RikudouGoku said:


> You cant really compare the seal aspect like that, they are entirely different in that regard.


You can if you take into account that (while I know and you know they don't correlate to one another); people in general are uneducated about their products, and if knowing they have been told that a better seal = better sound, they see earbuds that don't seal in any way, think they must sound bad, and pass on them.


RikudouGoku said:


> If we are talking about acoustic/vocal music, then yeah. I dont see iems beating earbuds at all. But for other genres, like trance or hip-hop its the opposite.


I would have to respectfully disagree here as well. The tech in IEMs is moving very fast also, and I have heard (and own some) that do indeed "beat" earbuds in every way except soundstage (which will never be able to be beat IMO). It is ironic that I disagree on this point being as how I think that your preferred sound signature in buds/IEMs is pretty close to mine. On the other hand, this is all a subjective debate, and more people probably would agree with you than myself, as my ears are getting old at this point.


----------



## RikudouGoku

samandhi said:


> I would have to respectfully disagree here as well. The tech in IEMs is moving very fast also, and I have heard (and own some) that do indeed "beat" earbuds in every way except soundstage (which will never be able to be beat IMO). It is ironic that I disagree on this point being as how I think that your preferred sound signature in buds/IEMs is pretty close to mine. On the other hand, this is all a subjective debate, and more people probably would agree with you than myself, as my ears are getting old at this point.


I wasnt referring to technicalities. (although iems to generally beat buds in that regard except soundstage as you said.)
But I was referring to how some genres needs that sub-bass which buds just cannot compete with iems.


----------



## samandhi (Aug 19, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> I wasnt referring to technicalities. (although iems to generally beat buds in that regard except soundstage as you said.)
> But I was referring to how some genres needs that sub-bass which buds just cannot compete with iems.


Then, I totally agree, and you are 100% right! Though, I have to say that the Maria II do come pretty darned close in that area (being a dual DD driver unit), if they would have tuned them with a bit more quantity. If you EQ that region up a bit, they CAN and ARE able to handle the bass. These can ALMOST become bass cannons (truly). But I think those are a one-off either way. And they aren't as practical in every day use than most others (because of the size of the back end, and how far they stick out, making them top heavy).


----------



## samandhi (Aug 19, 2021)

Ronion said:


> Those original Apple earbuds made me swear off earbuds (“forever“ as I thought then).


Funny thing is, that is what sealed my endeavor into earbuds as of late. Once I saw that they might be worth looking into, I pulled out my second gen Apple Earbuds, and though they DID sound fairly bad, the soundstage was so danged wide, I couldn't help but finding something to order that very night... LOL I suppose I should be greatful to Apple then in a way?!

Edit: OH, and I think I even tried to convince myself that they didn't sound that badly either. I think I might have even written that on the DX300 thread... ROFL


----------



## Braekfast

Ronion said:


> I will say that the M0 with the 40 Ohm drivers are slightly bright of neutral even without using any tuning nets (which makes them as warm as they go).  I use both thicker foams (HeiGi) and a tube amp to bring them to my personal preference.  I like them out of the box and they are definitely a detailed bud (not just elevated treble/false detail), but I wouldn’t describe them as warm or mellow.


Thanks for that. Might have to reconsider these then. Detailed sounds nice, but I am looking for something a bit mellow. A shame, because I love what Smabat seems to be doing with their interchangeable parts. 


samandhi said:


> -snip-


Thanks for that. I played around with that tone generator a bit and blindly sliding it up I get peaks of discomfort at around 3k and 6k, with 3k being the most pronounced. 

140 euro for the RW2000 is maybe a little steep for my use. Which is, like, 90% using them in bed when I'm reading a book or listening to music before going to sleep. I don't really use my earbuds during the day much, since I spend most of my time at my desk anyway and I'm wearing my full sized headphones then. But sleeping with the HD555/K701 just isn't very practical 

You mention running the 150ohm drivers straight from your phone, would my odyssey dongle dac also be able to run things like that? I don't tend to go crazy loud, just loud enough that everything comes through clear. 
I guess I'm still a bit confused about the impedance of headphones in general. Like, the HD555 is 50ohm, the KPH30i is 60 ohm, and the k701 is 63ohm. I would have guessed that the difference wasn't too big between the three, but the HD555 and KPH30i run fine at around 60-70%, whereas I really need to crank the K701 pretty much to the max my phone will allow to get it to a reasonable loudness. Which is why I haven't been looking to 150ohm drivers, because I'm assuming they just won't run at all. But maybe it's difference for earbuds because of the smaller size of the driver or something?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Braekfast said:


> I guess I'm still a bit confused about the impedance of headphones in general. Like, the HD555 is 50ohm, the KPH30i is 60 ohm, and the k701 is 63ohm. I would have guessed that the difference wasn't too big between the three, but the HD555 and KPH30i run fine at around 60-70%, whereas I really need to crank the K701 pretty much to the max my phone will allow to get it to a reasonable loudness. Which is why I haven't been looking to 150ohm drivers, because I'm assuming they just won't run at all. But maybe it's difference for earbuds because of the smaller size of the driver or something?


Sensitivity is the other factor you need to consider.

HD555: 112db
K701: 105db
KPH30i: 101db

Judging by that, the KPH30i should need the most power, followed by the K701 and then the HD555.


----------



## samandhi (Aug 19, 2021)

Braekfast said:


> Thanks for that. Might have to reconsider these then. Detailed sounds nice, but I am looking for something a bit mellow. A shame, because I love what Smabat seems to be doing with their interchangeable parts.
> 
> Thanks for that. I played around with that tone generator a bit and blindly sliding it up I get peaks of discomfort at around 3k and 6k, with 3k being the most pronounced.
> 
> ...


You are not wrong, but you are missing a variable that combines with the impedance to calculate how much power/volume you will need to have proper sound. The missing variable here is the sensitivity. So, while the ST10S Gold are a bit higher impedance, the sensitivity is really high (115dB), which makes them easier to drive than say the Senn HD700 having the same impedance. This is most likely also why you need to crank your K701. They are lower impedance @65Ohms, but are VERY inefficient at 90dB.

You can learn more about it here on HF in the sound science forums, or you can check out THIS article I found doing a search, if you like.

Edit: Looks like @RikudouGoku is right about the sensitivity. From the AKG site it says 105, but from a site I pulled up, it says 90... Interesting.


----------



## RikudouGoku

samandhi said:


> You are not wrong, but you are missing a variable that combines with the impedance to calculate how much power/volume you will need to have proper sound. The missing variable here is the sensitivity. So, while the ST10S Gold are a bit higher impedance, the sensitivity is really high (115dB), which makes them easier to drive than say the Senn HD700 having the same impedance. This is most likely also why you need to crank your K701. They are lower impedance @65Ohms, but are VERY inefficient at 90dB.
> 
> You can learn more about it here on HF in the sound science forums, or you can check out THIS article I found doing a search, if you like.


You can also check with this calculator: https://www.headphonesty.com/headphone-power-calculator/









(4x more power lol.)


----------



## Braekfast

RikudouGoku said:


> snip





samandhi said:


> snip





RikudouGoku said:


> Snip


I see, thank for that explanation! I was a bit suprised that the k701 should be easier to drive than the kph30i, I could have sworn it was the other way around. Just tried both of them again, and it still feels like the k701 needs more "juice" to get loud. 
Maybe it's just me, something with the kph30i being closer to my ears than the k701 maybe? I'd think the 6.3mm to 3.5mm adapter maybe could play a role in this? But that might be a stretch. They are some older ones, from when they were still made in Austria. I know the current k701's are manufactured in China, but I got these for around 50 euro second hand from someone, I think they're from around 2007-2009 or so? Not sure if there's any difference, just spitballing here. 

But this is great news, that calculator says the 150ohm smabat drivers for example should be totally doable. This might open up a bunch of options I hadn't considered yet.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Braekfast said:


> Maybe it's just me, something with the kph30i being closer to my ears than the k701 maybe?


Could just be because of them having different tonalities, making it hard to actually volume match them. 



Braekfast said:


> I'd think the 6.3mm to 3.5mm adapter maybe could play a role in this?


Adapters definitely do not have an impact on the sound, they are literally in the 0.0x ohm impedance range. If they do impact it, I say its defective. 





Braekfast said:


> But this is great news, that calculator says the 150ohm smabat drivers for example should be totally doable. This might open up a bunch of options I hadn't considered yet.


Keep in mind that the calculator is only telling you what it will drive, in terms of volume. But not about the quality. Some harder to drive stuff sounds pretty bad on weaker amps, and its not the volume.


----------



## samandhi

Braekfast said:


> 140 euro for the RW2000 is maybe a little steep for my use. Which is, like, 90% using them in bed when I'm reading a book or listening to music before going to sleep. I don't really use my earbuds during the day much, since I spend most of my time at my desk anyway and I'm wearing my full sized headphones then. But sleeping with the HD555/K701 just isn't very practical


Keep in mind, that was USD I quoted you earlier... That would be 118 euro for the RW2000. And, now that you mentioned sleeping in them, I also find them (amongst my collection) to be the best to sleep in. I am neither irritated having them in, nor do they touch the pillow putting extra pressure, being so small and light (I am a side sleeper BTW). But, even should you decide a different route, it almost sounds like you will like the shell type that these, and that the Smabats are because there are no stems to put any pressure on your ear lobes while sleeping. 

Also because you will be using them in bed mostly, you might consider the cable being detachable as a must, so it is replaceable in the future.... The RW2000, and all of the Smabats have this feature also. There are cheaper options with this feature also, but I just cannot speak to the sound that they reproduce.


----------



## baskingshark

Braekfast said:


> You mention running the 150ohm drivers straight from your phone, would my odyssey dongle dac also be able to run things like that? I don't tend to go crazy loud, just loud enough that everything comes through clear.
> I guess I'm still a bit confused about the impedance of headphones in general. Like, the HD555 is 50ohm, the KPH30i is 60 ohm, and the k701 is 63ohm. I would have guessed that the difference wasn't too big between the three, but the HD555 and KPH30i run fine at around 60-70%, whereas I really need to crank the K701 pretty much to the max my phone will allow to get it to a reasonable loudness. Which is why I haven't been looking to 150ohm drivers, because I'm assuming they just won't run at all. But maybe it's difference for earbuds because of the smaller size of the driver or something?





RikudouGoku said:


> Keep in mind that the calculator is only telling you what it will drive, in terms of volume. But not about the quality. Some harder to drive stuff sounds pretty bad on weaker amps, and its not the volume.



Yeah, agree with boss @RikudouGoku here.

Driving something adequately (or just barely) and driving something well are two different stories. It is not just about putting a low sensitivity/high impedance transducer into a low powered non LGV smartphone and just jacking up the volume to the max. If that were so, we can drive planar cans from a humble smartphone at max volume.

It is more that one loses microdynamics, soundstage, bass tightness and dynamics when something that requires power is barely powered well. Some power hungry earbuds/IEMs also get a skewed FR when they are fed inadequate power, you might get a bloated or missing bass, you might get harsh upper mids etc with inappropriate source matching.


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> If that were so, we can drive planar cans from a humble smartphone at max volume.


Lol, if its only about volume, you could also just turn up the preamp with PEQ.   
(sadly it doesnt work that way.)


----------



## chinmie

RikudouGoku said:


> You cant really compare the seal aspect like that, they are entirely different in that regard.



then again, we have guys like Crin who says earbuds inferior way of listening and are not worth mentioning ever, partly because of that seal aspect.

i do personally would not recommend earbuds to friends and families who listens to music with disregard of their surrounding noise. earbuds, because i know they would pump the volume too high..
by design (just like/even more so than openback headphone) would need quiet environment if we want to listen to it's technical potential at a safe level.
any noise present, even as little as quiet AC running would diminish the "technical" aspect of earbuds.
enjoyment level however? that depends, and might not be affected at all. i wear earbuds when noisy for that "ambient music" mode

so, if i want to compare earbuds to IEMs in a more even playing field, i usually stick them under a closed headphone 



samandhi said:


> Here in the US doing a search for earbuds is all but impossible, since it mostly brings up IEMs and TWS nowadays...



also not helping that most other people would say earbuds to describe IEMs


----------



## chompy

If I wanted to improve my Edifier H185 with better technicalities (and also get rid of the congestion / distortion I have with some complex tracks) would Smabat M2s Pro be a good option?

I like V shaped sound and I don't mind equalising if necessary to get this sound signature.

If this helps I much prefer H185 to VE (original) Monk (too dark sounding) or Toneking Tomahawk (too boring, not enough bass nor treble).

I'll use the balanced output of my Hiby R3 Pro Saber, so I don't think I would have problem with the 150 ohms driver... Would it fit better my tastes than the stock 40 ohms driver?

Thanks


----------



## baskingshark

chompy said:


> If I wanted to improve my Edifier H185 with better technicalities (and also get rid of the congestion / distortion I have with some complex tracks) would Smabat M2s Pro be a good option?
> 
> I like V shaped sound and I don't mind equalising if necessary to get this sound signature.
> 
> ...



Haven't heard the Edifier, but the stock M2S Pro and the 150 ohm driver added in are not V shaped.

The stock M2S Pro is neutralish with subbass boost. Adding the 150 ohm driver in gives more subbass extension and quantity than the stock driver. Both have a spike around the 3 kHz region, it can be tamed with full foams in general (unless you are very sensitive to that area).

In general, EQ is better done to cut frequencies, than to boost frequencies, so I'm not sure EQing a neutralish set to become V shaped (ie boosting the treble and bass) is gonna pan out, sometimes disortion might be added, especially for some drivers that are of lower quality. I don't usually use EQ, but maybe later I'll try the 150 ohm M2S Pro with a V shaped EQ profile.

Though my 2 cents is that rather than overly robust EQ, it might be worth considering to purchase a earbud that is by default V shaped already, eg Tingo TC200 or HE150 Pro.


----------



## nymz

baskingshark said:


> Haven't heard the Edifier, but the stock M2S Pro and the 150 ohm driver added in are not V shaped.
> 
> The stock M2S Pro is neutralish with subbass boost. Adding the 150 ohm driver in gives more subbass extension and quantity than the stock driver. Both have a spike around the 3 kHz region, it can be tamed with full foams in general (unless you are very sensitive to that area).
> 
> ...



Yeah, this is on point. Most drivers can't handle EQ, but you're usually fine with toning down frequencies.

Unless we're talking about LBBS, that can handle +25dbs on the sub bass without distortion much, lol.
Using them as I write this, just chilling on my sofa after waking up, reading some posts and listening to some techno (yes, morning slow music, I know) and I just realized I'm doing it through a bud... Handles it like a champ.


----------



## chompy (Aug 20, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Haven't heard the Edifier, but the stock M2S Pro and the 150 ohm driver added in are not V shaped.
> 
> The stock M2S Pro is neutralish with subbass boost. Adding the 150 ohm driver in gives more subbass extension and quantity than the stock driver. Both have a spike around the 3 kHz region, it can be tamed with full foams in general (unless you are very sensitive to that area).
> 
> ...


Thanks, as M2s Pro have got so much praise I thought to give them I try, but I'll also consider HE150 Pro if you think they will suit better me. TC200 is not for me, as I forgot to tell that mx500 shells don't fit me ok.


----------



## FranQL

chinmie said:


> then again, we have guys like Crin who says earbuds inferior way of listening and are not worth mentioning ever, partly because of that seal aspect.
> 
> i do personally would not recommend earbuds to friends and families who listens to music with disregard of their surrounding noise. earbuds, because i know they would pump the volume too high..
> by design (just like/even more so than openback headphone) would need quiet environment if we want to listen to it's technical potential at a safe level.
> ...


True, Crin doesn't like it, it's normal. I don't recommend buds to anyone either. But ... if you ask me why I use them ... then I am forced to explain how good they are for me.


----------



## nymz

chompy said:


> Thanks, as M2s Pro have got so much praise I thought to give them I try, but I'll also consider HE150 Pro if you think they will suit better me. TC200 is not for me, as I forgot to tell that mx500 don't fit me ok.



Sorry I haven't been following the discussion since yesterday was a busy day at work.

I do own M2S Pro + the 150ohm golden driver. Let me know if you need to know anything else about them!


----------



## chompy (Aug 20, 2021)

nymz said:


> Sorry I haven't been following the discussion since yesterday was a busy day at work.
> 
> I do own M2S Pro + the 150ohm golden driver. Let me know if you need to know anything else about them!


Great, thanks, could you please test if they handle well some bass and treble boost (or cut mids if they start distorting) to give them some kind of V shaped sound profile?


----------



## nymz (Aug 20, 2021)

FranQL said:


> True, Crin doesn't like it, it's normal. I don't recommend buds to anyone either. But ... if you ask me why I use them ... then I am forced to explain how good they are for me.



My 2 cents on the topic.

Is it only me that sees IEMs and Buds as brothers and not as rivals? I use them for different enviroments, music styles, ear rest and specially *mood*.

Sometimes I just wanna grab something that is great and confortable, so buds it is, grab and forget you have them on ears. Airy sound, out of your head sound, full relaxed mode.
Other times I just wanna get full focused or there's a lot of noise, or I want to hear the rumbles on the subass or every micro detail possible on earth and sure, I'd grab my IEMs.

My biggest use case is work. When I'm working for home, I'm usually in a lot of skype calls, so IEMs suck for that, since they get more tiring and you "hear yourself" since you have your ears sealed. Buds are great for this. But in the office, it's the other way around. I'm lucky to have great pairs for each type tho and that just makes it easy 

Oh and when Chuck Norris arrive, I usually grab my X6, you know...


----------



## nymz

chompy said:


> Great, thanks, could you please test if they handle well some bass and treble boost (or cut mids if they start distorting) to give them some kind of V shaped sound profile?



Can you give me some numbers? Not sure how much you need them to go up or down...

(I will test it for you, just not a EQ god tho)


----------



## baskingshark

nymz said:


> My 2 cents on the topic.
> 
> Is it only me that sees IEMs and Buds as brothers and not as rivals? I use them for different enviroments, music styles, ear rest and specially *mood*.
> 
> ...



Actually earbuds are closer to open backed headphones than IEMs. Very different beasts.

Earbuds lack isolation but they generally have better soundstage than IEMs. Different strokes for different folks as they say. I use earbuds for home listening too and for work calls/online meetings!


----------



## tendou

How to know if we received k's lbb or lbbs?

The Black version seems similar?


----------



## nymz

tendou said:


> How to know if we received k's lbb or lbbs?
> 
> The Black version seems similar?



Box sticker!


----------



## nymz

baskingshark said:


> Actually earbuds are closer to open backed headphones than IEMs. Very different beasts.
> 
> Earbuds lack isolation but they generally have better soundstage than IEMs. Different strokes for different folks as they say. I use earbuds for home listening too and for work calls/online meetings!



Exactly this. Buds give me the airy sound and stage of open cans without the need to carry one around. VE Zen 2.0 is a great example of this. They really were tuned to sound like an open can, and they really do.


----------



## FranQL (Aug 20, 2021)

nymz said:


> My 2 cents on the topic.
> 
> Is it only me that sees IEMs and Buds as brothers and not as rivals? I use them for different enviroments, music styles, ear rest and specially *mood*.
> 
> ...


Yes, I think the same as you in this regard, and in the beginning that was the use case. Not now.

I use bud all the time ... and if they call me or have work meetings ... I remove the one on my right ear ... and put this ...






Edit: Chuck Norris are already big words, I can not pour any negative criticism in that sense, I would risk my life


----------



## tendou

samandhi said:


> I can't speak from experience, but I would imagine they would have to be tuned a bit differently. As to which is better, will depend on what you like best.


Thanks


baskingshark said:


> Haha sometimes I wished my wife was a bit more 'audiophile'.
> 
> She can't tell the difference between a $3 usd night bazaar pirated Beats earphone and the TOTL Dunu Luna on a desktop amp. Facepalm.
> 
> ...


Thanks. The m2s pro shell is much more expensive than the m0 though


fonkepala said:


> Not yet, but maybe in future. After spending my hard-earned on two Blurs, I'm wiped out at the mo.


Nice!


----------



## tendou

nymz said:


> Box sticker!


So it's totally the same design wise? Down to the cable?

It shows that all the lbb have mic and lbbs don't?


----------



## nymz

tendou said:


> So it's totally the same design wise? Down to the cable?
> 
> It shows that all the lbb have mic and lbbs don't?



I think LBBS is smaller than the others and has no mic!

For differences or pics, ask the gods themselves, they own both (@RikudouGoku and @WoodyLuvr)


----------



## chompy

nymz said:


> Can you give me some numbers? Not sure how much you need them to go up or down...
> 
> (I will test it for you, just not a EQ god tho)


Thanks, something like this would be a good start point (if they have nice bass and treble, it would be less aggressive):


----------



## nymz

chompy said:


> Thanks, something like this would be a good start point (if they have nice bass and treble, it would be less aggressive):



Distortion at those levels.

But if you reduce it to lets say +5db max, it works, since M2S has a lot of bass already. Not sure if I'd advise it, but keep in mind this was done in 30s with 10 band EQ and not with PEQ, so YMMV. Also using 150ohm driver for that.

Lbbs did it just fine, think you might wanna check that one as well.


----------



## assassin10000

tendou said:


> So it's totally the same design wise? Down to the cable?
> 
> It shows that all the lbb have mic and lbbs don't?


Both had 3 cable options. Black (copper), plated cable (with white covers) and black w/mic.


Difference is driver/tuning. Externally identical.


----------



## chompy (Aug 20, 2021)

nymz said:


> Distortion at those levels.
> 
> But if you reduce it to lets say +5db max, it works, since M2S has a lot of bass already. Not sure if I'd advise it, but keep in mind this was done in 30s with 10 band EQ and not with PEQ, so YMMV. Also using 150ohm driver for that.
> 
> Lbbs did it just fine, think you might wanna check that one as well.


Thanks for your help, LBBS added to my list.

Upps, sorry one more question... equalising both buds before they start distorting, which one would you say has more bass and treble?


----------



## nymz

chompy said:


> Thanks for your help, LBBS added to my list.
> 
> Upps, sorry one more question... equalising both buds before they start distorting, which one would you say has more bass and treble?



First off all, let me link you LBBS review from @RikudouGoku. Here you can find a direct comparition of the LBBS vs M2S Pro.

*Bass*

M2S Pro has more bass without EQ, but LBBS can handle much more while EQ'd (max I can try is 20dbs, but Riku got it to +25).

*Treble*

LBBS treble is more extended and has better detail and clarity, but M2S is close.

*EQ*

LBBS handles EQing better, hands down.

*Over the ear usage/Cable/Modular Drivers*

Big selling point on M2S Pro for me is that you can use them over-ear if you want, with a cable that wish to. I'm using a cable that costs as much as the buds, but that's just because I owned it before and I don't own many mmcx cables, so I just grabed it and it looks good. Since they have ear-hooks, I used them as over-ear from the start with the 150ohm driver. This made me like M2S Pro more than LBBS at start because the sound is airy, cleaner, closer to an open back headphone. 

One day, after talking to @RikudouGoku on his thread, I tried M2S Pro and yeah, it's a game changer. I prefer M2S Pro used over ear and with 150ohm driver, but when compared down vs down, I prefer LBBS no chance. I'm telling you this because if you want a V-Shape, I'll have to use them down, since over the ear will balance the sound (this is more to my liking be clearly the opposite of your preference).

If I was looking for your sound signature (Extreme V-Shape) and wanted to EQ it, I'd grab LBBS. M2S Pro would be my second bet, but I'd keep the stock driver since they sound more V-Shaped than the 150ohm driver to my ears, and use them down and not over-ear.

*Conclusions*

If it was today, I'd grab LBBS and be done with. They are now around 3rd of 4th on the list of my prefered buds. Just grab and go, no need to care about cables, drivers, etc, but I use them as beaters.

Hope this was helpful!


----------



## tendou

assassin10000 said:


> Both had 3 cable options. Black (copper), plated cable (with white covers) and black w/mic.
> 
> 
> Difference is driver/tuning. Externally identical.


I see. So If I get the black one without mic then it's lbbs then


----------



## chompy

nymz said:


> First off all, let me link you LBBS review from @RikudouGoku. Here you can find a direct comparition of the LBBS vs M2S Pro.
> 
> *Bass*
> 
> ...


Lots of thanks, really, really helpful!!!


----------



## wilsonray

Hey guys any thoughts on **** pt2021 365ohm version ? Is it sound better than LBBS ?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

wilsonray said:


> Hey guys any thoughts on **** pt2021 365ohm version ? Is it sound better than LBBS ?


Very detailed; tad on the bright side and a bit analytical; nonetheless a very good earbud.  Hard to compare to the LBBS just a different sound signature and one that punches well above it's price.


----------



## Braekfast

samandhi said:


> Keep in mind, that was USD I quoted you earlier... That would be 118 euro for the RW2000. And, now that you mentioned sleeping in them, I also find them (amongst my collection) to be the best to sleep in. I am neither irritated having them in, nor do they touch the pillow putting extra pressure, being so small and light (I am a side sleeper BTW). But, even should you decide a different route, it almost sounds like you will like the shell type that these, and that the Smabats are because there are no stems to put any pressure on your ear lobes while sleeping.
> 
> Also because you will be using them in bed mostly, you might consider the cable being detachable as a must, so it is replaceable in the future.... The RW2000, and all of the Smabats have this feature also. There are cheaper options with this feature also, but I just cannot speak to the sound that they reproduce.


Unfortunately due to the exchange rates Aliexpress uses and the changes in VAT a couple of months ago, the RW2000 comes down to 158 euro for me, or 147 on the sale that's about to happen .
You make a good case for them, but I'm still hesitant to drop that kind of money on aliexpress. Half of it is that I won't have much fallback if they're defective or if I just plain don't like them, especially for something I'm mostly buying blind. I didn't mind spending 130 euro for the HD555's about 10 years ago (jesus, time really flies), but then I got to try them out beforehand and I could go back to the store for warranty and such. The other half is also that I'm trying to really keep myself from dropping too much money on this hobby. It's an easy rabbit hole to fall into with a lot of toll posts while you're falling, and corona hasn't exactly been great for the finances. 

You're right about the detachable cable as well though, that does seem like a very neat feature. Buy one good cable and use them with different buds, easier to replace if it gets damaged when sleeping. That's why I was originally leaning towards the Smabat M0 shell with the 40ohm drivers, or even go for the M2S style shell for more bass. Reading some of @RikudouGoku's reviews, the LBBS and Yincrow X6 also seem like fun and bang-for-your-buck earbuds, but they've got fixed cables.

I feel like I'm somehow going to end up going full DIY at this rate if I want to get what I want


----------



## wilsonray

WoodyLuvr said:


> Very detailed; tad on the bright side and a bit analytical; nonetheless a very good earbud.  Hard to compare to the LBBS just a different sound signature and one that punches well above it's price.


alright noted thanks ohya one more question how about the comfort? Is it better than normal mx500 type shell or basically feel the same when wear it ?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

wilsonray said:


> alright noted thanks ohya one more question how about the comfort? Is it better than normal mx500 type shell or basically feel the same when wear it ?


To me they are very similar to MX500 in comfort level.


----------



## wilsonray

WoodyLuvr said:


> To me they are very similar to MX500 in comfort level.


Aiya then a little big for me becoz my ear feel pain when wearing mx500 type shells with donut foam for 1 or 2 hours.


----------



## assassin10000

Braekfast said:


> You make a good case for them, but I'm still hesitant to drop that kind of money on aliexpress. Half of it is that I won't have much fallback if they're defective or if I just plain don't like them, especially for something I'm mostly buying blind.
> 
> I feel like I'm somehow going to end up going full DIY at this rate if I want to get what I want



You could try and scoop up the rw1000 bass edition instead? 


That's about where I am.


----------



## Braekfast

assassin10000 said:


> You could try and scoop up the rw1000 bass edition instead?
> 
> 
> That's about where I am.


Weird, I can't seem to find the rw1000 Bass edition on aliexpress. Might just be the search function acting up on me again though, sometimes it just straight up doesn't show the majority of hits for some reason. 

This might seem familiar to some (or most) of you, but the more I look around the longer my list of potential purchases becomes. Currently I'm at
- Smabat M0 shell + 40ohm driver
- Smabat M2spro shell + 40ohm driver (Which should essentially be a M2Spro if I understand correctly?)
- RY4S super
- Yincrow X6
- LLBS
- Cat Ear Mimi
- Openheart OH066 or OH860
- FENGRU Diy PT52

...this is getting out of hand fast, isn't it?


----------



## wskl

Braekfast said:


> Weird, I can't seem to find the rw1000 Bass edition on aliexpress. Might just be the search function acting up on me again though, sometimes it just straight up doesn't show the majority of hits for some reason.



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000412299257.html

You can select the bass boosted version from the color options.


----------



## samandhi

chompy said:


> If I wanted to improve my Edifier H185 with better technicalities (and also get rid of the congestion / distortion I have with some complex tracks) would Smabat M2s Pro be a good option?
> 
> I like V shaped sound and I don't mind equalising if necessary to get this sound signature.
> 
> ...


So, I took my M2S Pro 40Ohm buds and did some EQ experimenting. I use the DX300 with Neutron as the player. As long as you set the preamp to where it wont clip/distort, and have auto gain protection, you can pretty much do what you want with the settings. If you go overboard, though, the volume will be so low that you can't hear the song very well.... Here are the settings:


31Hz = +10dB
63Hz = +8dB
125Hz = +6dB
250Hz = +2dB
500Hz = 0dB
1KHz = -4dB
2KHz = -5dB
4KHz = -4dB
8KHz = +2dB
16KHz = +4dB
Preamp dB = -9.8dB
This gives a nice V without distortion (at least on Neutron, and the music I have listened to it with... YMMV). My 2¢.....

I don't have the 150Ohm driver for the M2S Pro, but I have the ST10S Gold (which is 150Ohm, and I maybe the same driver used in the M2S Pro driver module), and I will try and get a V shaped EQ for that one and let you know....


----------



## samandhi

Damn! The ST10S become some bass cannons with this EQ setting. They can handle most stuff except songs that have a ton of sub bass such as:  They can handle it at lower volumes, but if you turn it up the buds themselves start distorting. 

The difference in the two (with this setting) is that the 150Ohm driver has MUCH more sub bass, and bass quantity in general. Otherwise they sound more alike than not.

On another note, I decided to try this EQ setting on the Rose Maria II with that song, and that bud can totally handle it and at large volumes too. Massive bass! Not my type of tuning, but wow it can do it.


----------



## DBaldock9

Braekfast said:


> Weird, I can't seem to find the rw1000 Bass edition on aliexpress. Might just be the search function acting up on me again though, sometimes it just straight up doesn't show the majority of hits for some reason.
> 
> ...





wskl said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000412299257.html
> 
> You can select the bass boosted version from the color options.



The first four selections at this link are also the Bass Boosted version - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002806939428.html


----------



## assassin10000

DBaldock9 said:


> The first four selections at this link are also the Bass Boosted version - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002806939428.html


Hmmm. Looks like there is a 24Ω and 80Ω version? Anyone know the differences?


----------



## axhng

Received the M2S Pro (stock drivers) yesterday. A very nice set indeed for those who want a bit more bass but don't want to deal with EQ. Not so much a problem on Android, but on my iPhone I'm just using the stock music player which is a pain to EQ anything. Personally, the LBBS's tuning suits my taste more and I think it's more technically capable, but the M2S Pro is very enjoyable too in its own ways. Plus it has a removable cable and that modular driver system too.


----------



## chompy

samandhi said:


> Damn! The ST10S become some bass cannons with this EQ setting. They can handle most stuff except songs that have a ton of sub bass such as:  They can handle it at lower volumes, but if you turn it up the buds themselves start distorting.
> 
> The difference in the two (with this setting) is that the 150Ohm driver has MUCH more sub bass, and bass quantity in general. Otherwise they sound more alike than not.
> 
> On another note, I decided to try this EQ setting on the Rose Maria II with that song, and that bud can totally handle it and at large volumes too. Massive bass! Not my type of tuning, but wow it can do it.



Great lots of thanks! I think I'll give them a try using next AliExpress sales.


----------



## baskingshark

chompy said:


> Great lots of thanks! I think I'll give them a try using next AliExpress sales.



Haha u are in luck, the next Aliexpress sale starts on 23.08.21!!!!

Sorry for your wallet.


----------



## wskl

There is potentially a very good deal for the FiiO EM5
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001308929873.html

$200 during the sale, with the "$3 off every $30 spent" and $18 promo code found here, that brings the price down to $164.

I also noticed that the NiceHCK B40 has been restocked
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003155265272.html


----------



## nymz

wskl said:


> There is potentially a very good deal for the FiiO EM5
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001308929873.html
> 
> $200 during the sale, with the "$3 off every $30 spent" and $18 promo code found here, that brings the price down to $164.
> ...



Now that is interesting. Anyone happy with that em5?


----------



## baskingshark

nymz said:


> Now that is interesting. Anyone happy with that em5?




I auditioned the Fiio EM5 at a local shop, it didn't fit me well, but more so, I wasn't too impressed with the sound for the original list price, plus the non detachable cables are a bugbear for me. But $164 is a good deal, we gotta thank @wskl for this fine info. 

Do note, there were quite a few QC issues reported for the EM5 on the forums. Returning stuff to China isn't an easy thing to do (for stuff bought on Aliexpress), so it might be worth a consideration to get it from a place with a robust returns policy.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 21, 2021)

nymz said:


> Now that is interesting. Anyone happy with that em5?





baskingshark said:


> I auditioned the Fiio EM5 at a local shop, it didn't fit me well, but more so, I wasn't too impressed with the sound for the original list price, plus the non detachable cables are a bugbear for me. But $164 is a good deal, we gotta thank @wskl for this fine info.
> 
> Do note, there were quite a few QC issues reported for the EM5 on the forums. Returning stuff to China isn't an easy thing to do (for stuff bought on Aliexpress), so it might be worth a consideration to get it from a place with a robust returns policy.


God-tier level tuning the FiiO EM5 offers a very unique sound and are most definitely an "acquired taste" type of earbud (a lot of god-tier earbuds are actually). Although the EM5 has an excellent and authoritative low end; a very nice bottom to middle mid-range which is ever so slightly forward; and a nicely extended treble... they can come across rather shouty & bright and thin-sounding in the upper-mids thru to the highs, especially with certain music genres. And as *@baskingshark* has correctly intimated the FiiO EM5 has unfortunately been plagued with QC issues. Our Chinese brethren over on erji.net have been quite disappointed in them as well in regards to build quality.


----------



## nymz

Yeah, I'll skip. Dont need buds after blur, guess it was the addicted me talking.

End game reached


----------



## baskingshark

nymz said:


> Yeah, I'll skip. Dont need buds after blur, guess it was the addicted me talking.
> 
> End game reached


----------



## nymz

baskingshark said:


>



Dont worry, already shopping iems....


----------



## Lionlian (Aug 21, 2021)

what is best in this choice in your opinion? or please rating or ranking it

-Sunrise SW Dragon2
-Astrotec Lyra Nature
-VE Zen 2.0
-Yuin PK1


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Lionlian said:


> what is best in this choice in your opinion? or please rating or ranking it
> 
> -Sunrise SW Dragon2
> -Astrotec Lyra Nature
> ...


For what type of music? Listening level? Listening session time? Listening environment? Source? Price-Performance? Etc., etc., etc...

This is a very difficult question for us to answer well. When asking for a flathead-earbud recommendation the following data is extremely helpful:

_*source* (using a DAC/AMP/DAP/PC/smartphone/streamer; audio file type including bit & sample rate)_
_*preferred connection* (termination type e.g. 3.5SE/4.4TRRS/2.5mm; single-end vs balanced; mic/no mic)_
_*listening level & time* (volume, and for how long?)_
_*listening environment* (mobile/office desk/home desktop/listening room)_
_*preferred sound signature* (bright; flat/neutral; balanced/natural/smooth; dark/warm; extra bass/bassy; L/U/V-shaped)_
_*preferred genre* (rock, heavy metal, pop, classical, OST, hip-hop, R&B, Korean-Pop, EDM, podcasts, audiobooks, etc.)_
_*preferred shell type* (depends on your ears and personal comfort; please see *here*)_
_*preferred brand* (only applicable if asking for a model recommendation within a single brand)_
_*price range *(probably the most important; what are you willing/looking to spend?)_


----------



## MagikzzSoldier

Hi everyone

I'm new and not really an audiophile but i need your help.
I hate intra auricular earbuds, anything that goes into my ear canal hurts so bad i just can't wear them.
I also hate headphones.
I currently have airpods which fit me perfectly but i would like something with better audio quality.
I don't want  "audiophile quality" earbuds, i only listen to rap music ( drill, trap ... ) and i would like earbuds that are bass emphasized or bass heavy and that sounds good to the standards of a non audiophile person.
i will be listening with my phone and computer without any sound cards or extra gear.
my budget is anything under 100$ but the less the better.

Thank you all so much for reading this message and taking time out of your day to answer.


----------



## FranQL

MagikzzSoldier said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> I'm new and not really an audiophile but i need your help.
> I hate intra auricular earbuds, anything that goes into my ear canal hurts so bad i just can't wear them.
> ...



My recommendation will be that you try RY4s Plus


----------



## MagikzzSoldier

FranQL said:


> My recommendation will be that you try RY4s Plus


I've just checked they are only 5 bucks on aliexpress i would like something a bit more expensive


----------



## FranQL (Aug 21, 2021)

MagikzzSoldier said:


> I've just checked they are only 5 bucks on aliexpress i would like something a bit more expensive


More expensive is not synonymous with the fact that it will meet the requirements you have mentioned. But another bud that is popular here for having good bass is Yincrow X6, Yincrow RW1000 bass, and Smabat ST-10.


----------



## MagikzzSoldier

FranQL said:


> More expensive is not synonymous with the fact that it will meet the requirements you have mentioned. But another bud that is popular here for having good Yincrow X6 bass, Yincrow RW1000 bass, and Smabat ST-10.


oh okay thanks i assumed that the more expensive the better.
Are there good earbuds at around 50 or 60 bucks ?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 21, 2021)

MagikzzSoldier said:


> I've just checked they are only 5 bucks on aliexpress i would like something a bit more expensive





FranQL said:


> More expensive is not synonymous with the fact that it will meet the requirements you have mentioned. But another bud that is popular here for having good bass is Yincrow X6, Yincrow RW1000 bass, and Smabat ST-10.


Don't judge a book by it's cover or in this case by it's price tag. The RY4s Plus is an excellent recommendation so is the Yincrow X6 for a low impedance, high sensitivity earbud which would be perfect for your source (listening set-up). Stop thinking about the price but rather your preferred sound signature, shell type, target music genre, cable and termination type, etc.


----------



## MagikzzSoldier

WoodyLuvr said:


> Don't judge a book by it's cover or in this case by it's price tag. The RY4s Plus is an excellent recommendation so is the Yincrow X6 for a low impedance, high sensitivity earbud perfect for your source (listening set-up). Stop thinking about the price but rather your preferred sound signature, shell type, target music genre, cable and termination type, etc.


I guess you're right it's just in the mind of a consumer you always associate price with better quality i will definitly check out these recommendations and if you got any other i would really appreciate it


----------



## nymz

LBBS have the best confort for me. Feels like wearing nothing. My top rec tbh.

After that what others said or anything with a pk shell


----------



## MagikzzSoldier

nymz said:


> LBBS have the best confort for me. Feels like wearing nothing. My top rec tbh.
> 
> After that what others said or anything with a pk shell


where can i buy these ?


----------



## nymz

MagikzzSoldier said:


> where can i buy these ?



https://a.aliexpress.com/_mtI0Aab

Wait for sale. Grab the first one on the color picking that says lbbs. Other ones (lbb) suck.


----------



## MagikzzSoldier

nymz said:


> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mtI0Aab
> 
> Wait for sale. Grab the first one on the color picking that says lbbs. Other ones (lbb) suck.


Thank you so much would you say they are better than the yincrow x6 ?


----------



## nymz

MagikzzSoldier said:


> Thank you so much would you say they are better than the yincrow x6 ?



Yes. To me they are the best buds under 100 usd so far. You can eq it to have the same fr of x6 pretty easy, but i dont feel the need for it. Check @RikudouGoku review, its spot on. Im not at home atm so cant link it.

Stock foams are also great, just plug in play


----------



## MagikzzSoldier

nymz said:


> Yes. To me they are the best buds under 100 usd so far. You can eq it to have the same fr of x6 pretty easy, but i dont feel the need for it. Check @RikudouGoku review, its spot on. Im not at home atm so cant link it.
> 
> Stock foams are also great, just plug in play


Alright thank you i'll either pick the x6 or the lbbs


----------



## RikudouGoku

MagikzzSoldier said:


> Alright thank you i'll either pick the x6 or the lbbs


If you get the LBBS, you already have a better X6 IF, you use PEQ. If you do not use PEQ, then having both are great complements to each other.


----------



## MagikzzSoldier

RikudouGoku said:


> If you get the LBBS, you already have a better X6 IF, you use PEQ. If you do not use PEQ, then having both are great complements to each other.


I think i'll buy both but that's crazy to think that 12$ earbuds have better audio quality than $150 airpods i'm blown away


----------



## RikudouGoku

MagikzzSoldier said:


> I think i'll buy both but that's crazy to think that 12$ earbuds have better audio quality than $150 airpods i'm blown away


Which one do you have? Because the original airpod (2019) is actually pretty good and is better than the Yincrow RW-100 (but not the X6 lol).


----------



## MagikzzSoldier

RikudouGoku said:


> Which one do you have? Because the original airpod (2019) is actually pretty good and is better than the Yincrow RW-100 (but not the X6 lol).


i have the gen 2 original airpods


----------



## nymz

MagikzzSoldier said:


> I think i'll buy both but that's crazy to think that 12$ earbuds have better audio quality than $150 airpods i'm blown away



They don't come with an apple on them


----------



## MagikzzSoldier

nymz said:


> They don't come with an apple on them


ahah that's the apple tax but you're also paying for the convenience and comfort.
anyway i just orderered the X6 on aliexpress i would have really loved a true wireless version.


----------



## RikudouGoku

MagikzzSoldier said:


> ahah that's the apple tax but you're also paying for the convenience and comfort.
> anyway i just orderered the X6 on aliexpress i would have really loved a true wireless version.


If you want TWS, you can buy a bud with mmcx and get a TWS adapter.

Like this:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001320876528.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html
(although you have to wear them over-ear, which at least for me, does not work well with buds.)

(just examples, not necessarily recs from me.)


----------



## MagikzzSoldier

RikudouGoku said:


> If you want TWS, you can buy a bud with mmcx and get a TWS adapter.
> 
> Like this:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001320876528.html
> ...


Alright thanks i can't wait to get my hands on the x6


----------



## RikudouGoku

MagikzzSoldier said:


> Alright thanks i can't wait to get my hands on the x6


X6 is epic, but it doesnt have an mmcx so you cant use that trick.

Although you can use something like this:
https://www.qudelix.com/products/qudelix-5k-dac-amp
Just tie up the cable a bit and clip the amp/dac on your shirt and you have a wireless bud. 

(although you are paying quite a lot more for those bluetooth amp/dac than the X6, which isnt something I recommend.)


----------



## MagikzzSoldier

RikudouGoku said:


> X6 is epic, but it doesnt have an mmcx so you cant use that trick.
> 
> Although you can use something like this:
> https://www.qudelix.com/products/qudelix-5k-dac-amp
> ...


Thanks so much for the recommendations and replies 👍


----------



## RikudouGoku

MagikzzSoldier said:


> Thanks so much for the recommendations and replies 👍


np, you can check this thread for more info on those bluetooth amp/dacs.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...w3s-and-shanling-up5-impression-added.906655/


----------



## Braekfast

How do the Smabat M2Spro and the LBBS compare? These seem like two good bang for your buck contenders when compared to my current Datura Pro (first attempt to get the shell to stick together securely failed) if I'm reading things right. Reading your review @RikudouGoku it seems like they're somewhat similar? Both lean towards the neutral-ish side, but the Smabats do the low end better while the LBBS do the mids/highs better? 

I'm sorta looking over my options here, and I feel like I might get myself two buds. One for active listening and trying to really hear the most out of each track, and one for mellowness/background music, to just throw on when reading a book when I'm not focusing on the music so much. So I was thinking of either the M2Spro + RY4S plus, or the LBBS + Yincrow X6 or Cat Ear Mimi, for example. 

I'm still leaning towards the M2Spro overall, but maybe I'm just getting too hung up on the whole MMCX cable thing. It seems like the LBBS also has the upper hand when it comes to EQ'ing, and I am able to use wavelet pretty much always when using earbuds.


----------



## chinmie

MagikzzSoldier said:


> ahah that's the apple tax but you're also paying for the convenience and comfort.
> anyway i just orderered the X6 on aliexpress i would have really loved a true wireless version.



TWS earbuds that i could recommend for the music you mentioned would be Soundpeats Trueair2, Sabbat Vooplay, and Samsung Galaxy Buds Live


----------



## samandhi

MagikzzSoldier said:


> ahah that's the apple tax but you're also paying for the convenience and comfort.
> anyway i just orderered the X6 on aliexpress i would have really loved a true wireless version.


If you are wanting TWS then I would suggest checking out this thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/going-fully-wireless-iems-too-soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/ it is pretty fast moving, but keeps up with the current tech... If you like mainly rap, I might suggest the Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch. They are on sale atm for $119. These will have the bass required to listen to your genre. 

Otherwise, you have some great recs from here... Just keep in mind with earbuds; unlike IEMs $150 is a lot of money for an earbud compared to IEMs/headphones. There are some really great earbuds for very little money. Also keep in mind (out of the box), there aren't a ton of flathead buds that will have the quantity of bass that the airpods have (not saying there AREN'T any, just not many). This is because they are so open and non sealing. While the Airpods don't really seal, they direct the sound into your ear similar to in ears. 

If you get some buds and find that you are not liking them as much because of this, you can always get some aftermarket pads like THIS, though these won't fit (couldn't find them at a glace, but have seen them), I have seen some on Aliexpress that are the normal flathead size that have the nozzle that directs the sound into your ears like Airpods do.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Braekfast said:


> How do the Smabat M2Spro and the LBBS compare? These seem like two good bang for your buck contenders when compared to my current Datura Pro (first attempt to get the shell to stick together securely failed) if I'm reading things right. Reading your review @RikudouGoku it seems like they're somewhat similar? Both lean towards the neutral-ish side, but the Smabats do the low end better while the LBBS do the mids/highs better?


Yeah, thats how you can put it. I do think the LBBS is the better bud though, not only with mids/treble but also technicalities and timbre

And if you can use PEQ, you already have the (better) X6 with that one bud. 
But even if you do not use PEQ, the stock LBBS + X6 is a great combo.


----------



## samandhi

Braekfast said:


> How do the Smabat M2Spro and the LBBS compare? These seem like two good bang for your buck contenders when compared to my current Datura Pro (first attempt to get the shell to stick together securely failed) if I'm reading things right. Reading your review @RikudouGoku it seems like they're somewhat similar? Both lean towards the neutral-ish side, but the Smabats do the low end better while the LBBS do the mids/highs better?
> 
> I'm sorta looking over my options here, and I feel like I might get myself two buds. One for active listening and trying to really hear the most out of each track, and one for mellowness/background music, to just throw on when reading a book when I'm not focusing on the music so much. So I was thinking of either the M2Spro + RY4S plus, or the LBBS + Yincrow X6 or Cat Ear Mimi, for example.
> 
> I'm still leaning towards the M2Spro overall, but maybe I'm just getting too hung up on the whole MMCX cable thing. It seems like the LBBS also has the upper hand when it comes to EQ'ing, and I am able to use wavelet pretty much always when using earbuds.


You really can't go wrong with the M2S Pro because of them being modular. You can not only change the pads, and the cable, but you can also change the drivers, and even the filters inside. So if you aren't satisfied with the sound of them out of the box (even with some EQ) it is pretty cheap to get upgrades for these...


----------



## Braekfast

RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah, thats how you can put it. I do think the LBBS is the better bud though, not only with mids/treble but also technicalities and timbre
> 
> And if you can use PEQ, you already have the (better) X6 with that one bud.
> But even if you do not use PEQ, the stock LBBS + X6 is a great combo.



Does wavelet count as PEQ? Sorry, I'm still not very good at all the terminology of these kinds of things.



samandhi said:


> You really can't go wrong with the M2S Pro because of them being modular. You can not only change the pads, and the cable, but you can also change the drivers, and even the filters inside. So if you aren't satisfied with the sound of them out of the box (even with some EQ) it is pretty cheap to get upgrades for these...



Argh, you're kinda like the little devil to RikudouGoku's angel on my shoulder, tempting from one earbud to another. Or is it the other way around?


----------



## chinmie

MagikzzSoldier said:


> Alright thanks i can't wait to get my hands on the x6





RikudouGoku said:


> X6 is epic, but it doesnt have an mmcx so you cant use that trick.
> 
> Although you can use something like this:
> https://www.qudelix.com/products/qudelix-5k-dac-amp
> ...



if you have access to a 3D printer, you might want to try this

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3527867

i made one for my ES100, from the clip size i think it would fit the Qudelix too


----------



## RikudouGoku

Braekfast said:


> Does wavelet count as PEQ? Sorry, I'm still not very good at all the terminology of these kinds of things.


No, I believe you can only use graphical EQ and bass boosters and other effects like that.

PEQ, Parametric EQ is a lot more powerful and useful tool because you can adjust anything you want. You can pick the exact frequency and the exact Q value (how wide/narrow the EQ band is) and also use other more advanced bands like Low/high-shelf. 

If you are using local music (not apps like spotify) you can get PEQ with apps like Neutron Player, UAPP and Poweramp.


----------



## samandhi

Braekfast said:


> Does wavelet count as PEQ? Sorry, I'm still not very good at all the terminology of these kinds of things.


PEQ = Parametric Equalizer vs. Graphic Equalizer (Wavelet)... PEQ allows you to shape the sound exactly like you want to. You can search on this forum in the Sound Science for how the two work if you don't know, or you can visit THIS site for a quick read on the two and how they work, if you like.


Braekfast said:


> Argh, you're kinda like the little devil to RikudouGoku's angel on my shoulder, tempting from one earbud to another. Or is it the other way around?


Of course I am the angel in this ....  In seriousness though, you really can't go wrong with either IMO....


----------



## Braekfast (Aug 21, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> No, I believe you can only use graphical EQ and bass boosters and other effects like that.
> 
> PEQ, Parametric EQ is a lot more powerful and useful tool because you can adjust anything you want. You can pick the exact frequency and the exact Q value (how wide/narrow the EQ band is) and also use other more advanced bands like Low/high-shelf.
> 
> If you are using local music (not apps like spotify) you can get PEQ with apps like Neutron Player, UAPP and Poweramp.


Did some googling around, and I found this github page for something that apparently converts peace apo parametric EQ to the autoEQ format wavelet uses. I mean, that's what I'm reading, but I'm unsure if it'll actually have the desired effect. I do use spotify the vast majority of the time (it's just handy on the move and at work). 


samandhi said:


> PEQ = Parametric Equalizer vs. Graphic Equalizer (Wavelet)... PEQ allows you to shape the sound exactly like you want to. You can search on this forum in the Sound Science for how the two work if you don't know, or you can visit THIS site for a quick read on the two and how they work, if you like.
> 
> Of course I am the angel in this ....  In seriousness though, you really can't go wrong with either IMO....


Yeah, they both seem like solid buds in their own right. I'm just a bit stuck on getting the "best" I can, you know? Which is a very abstract thing with audio in general since everyone likes different flavours and hears things differently. And especially so with earbuds because price doesn't seem to mean much at all, annoyingly.


----------



## chinmie

Braekfast said:


> Did some googling around, and I found this github page for something that apparently converts peace apo parametric EQ to the autoEQ format wavelet uses. I mean, that's what I'm reading, but I'm unsure if it'll actually have the desired effect. I do use spotify the vast majority of the time (it's just handy on the move and at work).
> 
> Yeah, they both seem like solid buds in their own right. I'm just a bit stuck on getting the "best" I can, you know? Which is a very abstract thing with audio in general since everyone likes different flavours and hears things differently. And especially so with earbuds because price doesn't seem to mean much at all, annoyingly.


the thing is with Wavelet, the autoEQ goal is to bring all our earphones' sound to harman target. if you want to customize the sound yourself, it's better to turn off the auto EQ and use the graphic EQ instead 



samandhi said:


> PEQ = Parametric Equalizer vs. Graphic Equalizer (Wavelet)... PEQ allows you to shape the sound exactly like you want to. You can search on this forum in the Sound Science for how the two work if you don't know, or you can visit THIS site for a quick read on the two and how they work, if you like.



the "mantra" of parametric EQ that I will always use: 
boost wide, cut narrow, and always sweep to find the resonance culprit


----------



## samandhi

Braekfast said:


> Did some googling around, and I found this github page for something that apparently converts peace apo parametric EQ to the autoEQ format wavelet uses. I mean, that's what I'm reading, but I'm unsure if it'll actually have the desired effect. I do use spotify the vast majority of the time (it's just handy on the move and at work).
> 
> Yeah, they both seem like solid buds in their own right. I'm just a bit stuck on getting the "best" I can, you know? Which is a very abstract thing with audio in general since everyone likes different flavours and hears things differently. And especially so with earbuds because price doesn't seem to mean much at all, annoyingly.


Yes, that is true... And go into the auto-eq function of Wavelet, you can actually click add, and then it will go online to a huge database of premade auto-eq profiles you can download and use with it. I doubt that most of the earbuds mentioned here will be on that list, but you can play around with profiles (and edit them afterwards also) if you like.

If you have the money, then just get them both. If you don't, then it might come down to what you want (besides sound) that you can and can't live without. Neither me, nor @RikudouGoku, nor anybody else here can choose for you, but only lead you to some options that seem to match what you are looking for. Those 2 seem to be in your category for sound, price, etc...


----------



## samandhi

chinmie said:


> the thing is with Wavelet, the autoEQ goal is to bring all our earphones' sound to harman target. if you want to customize the sound yourself, it's better to turn off the auto EQ and use the graphic EQ instead


That is so true... It was created to fix the "Issues" that various phone/IEMs have. So it isn't so much for tuning, but more for correcting. Good call!


chinmie said:


> the "mantra" of parametric EQ that I will always use:
> boost wide, cut narrow, and always sweep to find the resonance culprit


That is a fantastic way of looking at it! I live by those words, even though I've not heard them before. I usually always go to that tone generator page I linked earlier before I start doing any sort of EQ'ing, so that that I know where the offending bands are at.


----------



## Braekfast

chinmie said:


> the thing is with Wavelet, the autoEQ goal is to bring all our earphones' sound to harman target. if you want to customize the sound yourself, it's better to turn off the auto EQ and use the graphic EQ instead



True, but those are only for the included ones, right? From the "standard" database. If I were to use RikudouGoku's lbbs EQ settings in peace apo and then convert them to the wavelet format, wouldn't it be the same as using an app with PEQ? It's very possible I'm totally misunderstanding things here. 



samandhi said:


> If you have the money, then just get them both. If you don't, then it might come down to what you want (besides sound) that you can and can't live without. Neither me, nor @RikudouGoku, nor anybody else here can choose for you, but only lead you to some options that seem to match what you are looking for. Those 2 seem to be in your category for sound, price, etc...



Yeah, that's both something enjoyable about earbuds/headphones but also gets annoying at times, at least to me. It's easier with pc components and such where it's just "look, component X will do this and component Y will do that", and you can just figure out what would objectively be the better choice. 
It's not like getting both isn't doable, but then I run into the "well, if I'm spending close to 90 euro on two sets of buds, maybe I should just get 90 euro buds which are all-round better than both?". Rinse and repeat until we're spending an evening browsing 300 euro earbuds


----------



## n00b

axhng said:


> Received the M2S Pro (stock drivers) yesterday. A very nice set indeed for those who want a bit more bass but don't want to deal with EQ. Not so much a problem on Android, but on my iPhone I'm just using the stock music player which is a pain to EQ anything. Personally, the LBBS's tuning suits my taste more and I think it's more technically capable, but the M2S Pro is very enjoyable too in its own ways. Plus it has a removable cable and that modular driver system too.


These two are the best bang-for-buck I can think of and make an excellent complementary set. The M2s Pro can give a fun, bassy sound, while the LBBs can give a clear, airy presentation. Both have good tuning and technicalities IMO. Fit is good on both, LBBs is the best, but M2s Pro has so much versatility in being able to be worn down or over the ear, and is completely modular. If you want a solid neutral performer and don't care about modularity or balanced or messing with tip rolling or anything, LBBs is an easy reco. If you listen to genres where you need bass or need balanced out for whatever reason, M2s Pro. If you want to be free from reading this thread and trying to upgrade to TOTL and keeping your budget in check, buy both and then run away


----------



## chinmie

Braekfast said:


> True, but those are only for the included ones, right? From the "standard" database. If I were to use RikudouGoku's lbbs EQ settings in peace apo and then convert them to the wavelet format, wouldn't it be the same as using an app with PEQ? It's very possible I'm totally misunderstanding things here.



you are totally correct, with that scenario you do exactly using it to transfer Riku's Lbbs setting into the Wavelet


----------



## nymz

As I said some pages ago, there's no wrong pick

I like m2s pro golden driver over the ear and lbbs used down.

Both down I think LBBS is superior and handles eq like a champ. M2S over the ear gets a different signature, close to VE Zen with bass, being like an open back airy headphone. Of course you lose a little bit of sub bass with this.

Also I use lbbs full foam and m2s with donuts.


----------



## RikudouGoku

NiceHCK B40 is back!
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003156264615.html

(no idea if they changed anything though.)

Maybe there is a chance of them bringing back the ME80?


----------



## assassin10000

Wish K's had done MMCX shells... so I wouldn't have had to DIY them.


----------



## Min2

Has anyone tried Astrotec Lyra Mini? They are on a smaller side like LBBs (14mm). Looks interesting.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 22, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> NiceHCK B40 is back!
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003156264615.html
> 
> (no idea if they changed anything though.)
> ...


Wow! I completely missed that! And Jim didn't even send me a heads up either . Speaking of which I haven't heard from him in some time... well before the Chinese Lunar New Year . I hope the 2021 B40 are as good as the 2019 original.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

assassin10000 said:


> Wish K's had done MMCX shells... so I wouldn't have had to DIY them.


Superb work there mate! Thank you for sharing. How do they sound... was there any noticeable change in signature with the addition of the connector invading the bell?


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 22, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Superb work there mate! Thank you for sharing. How do they sound... was there any noticeable change in signature with the addition of the connector invading the bell?


Thanks.

I couldn't say, as I retrofitted different drivers and tuned it at the same time.

But there would be a reduction in mid-bass/lower mids to a more even bass and mid range. Basically more linear on a graph below 1k (less V, and a bit less warmth). This is due to closing off the vented area around the cable.


On my older 2018 MMCX conversion I drilled a port to bring back it's warm sound signature. (These are gone/sold.)


----------



## nymz

assassin10000 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I couldn't say, as I retrofitted different drivers and tuned it at the same time.
> 
> ...



Damn. Now I need a guy to do this on my country for me.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Just noticed that "Wild Lee" (*@zhibli06*) has updated the *VE website* home splash page showcasing in full glory the new *Monk SM (Slim Metal)*!




He has also updated the *Monk SM product page* as well with the full specs for the basic standard edition 32Ω model, as well as has mentioned in the "Product Details" that the forthcoming upper-tier future upgrade Slim Metal model will be 150Ω.


----------



## nymz (Aug 22, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Just noticed that "Wild Lee" (*@zhibli06*) has updated the *VE website* home splash page showcasing in full glory the new *Monk SM (Slim Metal)*!
> 
> ​
> He has also updated the *Monk SM product page* as well with the full specs for the basic standard edition 32Ω model, as well as has mentioned in the "Product Details" that the forthcoming upper-tier future upgrade Slim Metal model will be 150Ω.
> ...



Yes, Lee already talked about it openly on their facebook group. To give some extra info on your finding:

SM seems like a proof of concept that went beyond expectations, and now they are working an higher tier SM that scales, maybe with a different driver and cable, but keeping the shell.

There's an upgrade deal in the meantime. If you got SM, you only pay the difference when the new one arrives, but you keep both. So far has been working great, which caused a supply and demand problem. They are hand made and as Lee told us, the problem lies between that and he selling it for 20usd (he says he sold it too cheap). There's a queue atm and last sale was open for 5mins only so they can keep filing orders while keeping QC and expectations tight. 

First feedback from the customers had been great, so I'm looking forward to hear it. I was one of the first to jump on it, but they are still somewhere between couriers and costums.

For the interested ones, they will also announce a new portable amp/dac with 4.4mm balanced output and very high power this week for around 100usd. This interests me since I've been looking for one, so time will tell.


----------



## wilsonray

Ohya think im interested in getting LBBS when sales start. Comfort wise is it better than pk shells ?


----------



## nymz

wilsonray said:


> Ohya think im interested in getting LBBS when sales start. Comfort wise is it better than pk shells ?



For me, they are. LBBS > pk > mx. YMMV


----------



## Chessnaudio

wilsonray said:


> Ohya think im interested in getting LBBS when sales start. Comfort wise is it better than pk shells ?


For me LBBS. No contest in comfort


----------



## WoodyLuvr

wilsonray said:


> Ohya think im interested in getting LBBS when sales start. Comfort wise is it better than pk shells ?





nymz said:


> For me, they are. LBBS > pk > mx. YMMV





Chessnaudio said:


> For me LBBS. No contest in comfort


Do note that although many of us may prefer the Ks Bell shape & size in regards to comfort (I sure do!) if you have large ears and/or ear canals (like some people do) the Ks Bell, and even PK shells, will not fit correctly (move around, a lot), and thus why such individuals prefer a MX or larger other variant shell instead.


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> NiceHCK B40 is back!
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003156264615.html
> 
> (no idea if they changed anything though.)
> ...


Thanks for the heads up! I ordered the mic version and will compare the response with the original version.


----------



## Ronion (Aug 22, 2021)

I have been using the M0 shell with the 40Ohm driver through the B4X every night listening to orchestral works since getting them.  If you like this style of music, you could listen to it on far worse systems for a lot more money.  I'm not sure why you would want to, but it is an option.    Bar none it's the best I've heard in headphones within these parameters.  That may well change when I get my Blur, but these M0 are less than $30!  The sense of space and envelopment combined with the comfort, resolution, clarity and warmth (provided by the b4X) puts me in a trance every night.  Highly recommended.


----------



## cqtek

Hello everybody.

Here is my humble opinion about the Smabat M2s Pro.

Cheers.




https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-m2s-pro.25238/reviews#review-26588


----------



## FranQL

puedes revisar en el hilo





cqtek said:


> Hello everybody.
> 
> Here is my humble opinion about the Smabat M2s Pro.
> 
> ...


Didn't you test M0 with the gold 150 Ohm driver?

It is an interesting combination that can be obtained for € 30


----------



## Ronion (Aug 23, 2021)

You’ve got me wanting to try the 150 Ohm driver in the M0 shell.  The 40 Ohm driver is addictive when I listen to orchestras through the B4X that I’m hesitant to change it, but in truth it would take like 30 seconds and I’d bet it would be an improvement over the 40 in the M0.   I’m going to wait on that though because I’ve got the little fiber driver coming and I’d like to switch these drivers around as little as possible and I’ll do them all sequentially.  The M0 fit in my ears a little better but with the shark fin attached, no other headphone, IEM, or ear bud matches the M2S pro fit.  Anyway, it would be nice to see some graphs related to those changes.


----------



## Jmop

Not really a bud but I saw it mentioned in this thread so I'll insert the graph here. Amazing response, wonder how it pans out.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIw1An1OUp4XIv_h6si2etQ/community?lb=Ugz0Mt3AAkwa6-MN9kx4AaABCQ


----------



## fonkepala

Ronion said:


> I have been using the M0 shell with the 40Ohm driver through the B4X every night listening to orchestral works since getting them.  If you like this style of music, you could listen to it on far worse systems for a lot more money.  I'm not sure why you would want to, but it is an option.    Bar none it's the best I've heard in headphones within these parameters.  That may well change when I get my Blur, but these M0 are less than $30!  The sense of space and envelopment combined with the comfort, resolution, clarity and warmth (provided by the b4X) puts me in a trance every night.  Highly recommended.


Did you buy your M0 + driver from the official Smabat store on Aliexpress?


----------



## Dany1

Bought the LBBS for $25 ....Feeling so Happy!


----------



## Ronion

fonkepala said:


> Did you buy your M0 + driver from the official Smabat store on Aliexpress?


I got the 40 Ohm driver with the M2s pro from the SMABAT websithe, but the M0 shell from AE Official store.


----------



## nymz

To people trying to get LBBS from AliExpress:

Stock has gone out but they re-stocked for some. You might want to hurry since they usually go out-of-stock during sales.

Happy listening


----------



## cqtek

FranQL said:


> puedes revisar en el hilo
> Didn't you test M0 with the gold 150 Ohm driver?
> 
> It is an interesting combination that can be obtained for € 30


Yes, but very little, at first I didn't like it. As I really like the M0 as standard, I left the gold driver fixed on the M2s Pro. I want to buy the M0 capsule and the super S driver, for comparison.


----------



## Ronion

Dany1 said:


> Bought the LBBS for $25 ....Feeling so Happy!


Possibly the best deal in history!  Congratulations!


----------



## jrazmar

I'm afraid I may have the worst deal in history because of shipping.  So not getting the LBBS for now until there's another way.


----------



## Ronion

That sucks bro.  Maybe there’s a proxy that could help?  Shipping is cheap, but lengthy to California…


----------



## Braekfast

nymz said:


> To people trying to get LBBS from AliExpress:
> 
> Stock has gone out but they re-stocked for some. You might want to hurry since they usually go out-of-stock during sales.
> 
> Happy listening


Thanks for the heads-up, I was gonna wait to order until I got off work but I jumped on it. 

And thanks for all the advice in the thread from everyone, I ended up going for the Bell-LBS and the Yincrow X6. I've got high hopes for both, can't wait until they arrive. 
And if it turns I wanted some more bass after all, I can always get the Smabat MS2pro later


----------



## furyossa

jrazmar said:


> I'm afraid I may have the worst deal in history because of shipping.  So not getting the LBBS for now until there's another way.


Don't cry. I just laugh when I see my option


----------



## RikudouGoku

Lucky bag earbud:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003181873387.html

Anyone know what it is?


----------



## chavez

RikudouGoku said:


> Lucky bag earbud:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003181873387.html
> 
> Anyone know what it is?


Looks like its a mid centric bud. (From the info on ali)


----------



## RikudouGoku

chavez said:


> Looks like its a mid centric bud. (From the info on ali)


Which is what most buds are lol.


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> Lucky bag earbud:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003181873387.html
> 
> Anyone know what it is?



Thanks nice spot.

14.3 mm driver hmm.


It says the "female vocal of this earbud is very charming".

AKA female poison. AKA shouty/Banshee upper mids and treble?


----------



## nymz

RikudouGoku said:


> Lucky bag earbud:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003181873387.html
> 
> Anyone know what it is?



Can it be more than one? Since they have the option to buy more than one bag.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Have fun.


----------



## jrazmar

furyossa said:


> Don't cry. I just laugh when I see my option


Hahaha. Thankfully I don't feel the itch of getting the LBBS or another earbuds for that matter. I am happy with what I have right now. It's just that the shipping cost is so outrageous. I actually saw this at Shopee and the price is even more expensive. It's free shipping though.


----------



## Cynical L

I am curious to try out some buds with PK shell form factor, does anyone have some suggestions in the ~$10 range?(or more if absolutely needed) I am fine with any profile as long as it is well executed but most of the audio equipment I have is more neutral in tuning. I am just curious as to what PK buds are like compared to the mx500 style buds I have been using for years.


----------



## uneri (Sep 17, 2021)

‎


----------



## baskingshark

uneri said:


> https://twitter.com/hckexin/status/1429718417867636738
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



That looks like the showerhead in my toilet!!


----------



## RikudouGoku

uneri said:


> https://twitter.com/hckexin/status/1429718417867636738
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Is that the Qian39?


----------



## furyossa (Aug 23, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Is that the Qian39?


Yup   https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32824719611.html


----------



## furyossa

I would like to see this "clearance sale" for Beyerdynamic DP100 at the same price.


----------



## wskl

Cynical L said:


> I am curious to try out some buds with PK shell form factor, does anyone have some suggestions in the ~$10 range?(or more if absolutely needed) I am fine with any profile as long as it is well executed but most of the audio equipment I have is more neutral in tuning. I am just curious as to what PK buds are like compared to the mx500 style buds I have been using for years.



NiceHCK B40

VE Monk Slim Metal

Do note that these 2 earbuds have the same styling as a PK shell but are a little bigger than the ones used by Yuin and Shozy, but if your ears are fine with MX500 it should not be a problem.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 23, 2021)

Braekfast said:


> And thanks for all the advice in the thread from everyone, I ended up going for the *Bell-LBS* and the Yincrow X6. I've got high hopes for both, can't wait until they arrive.


*LBBs (aka LBBS) *not LBS which is a completely different (older) model.

*2018 - K's Temperament 小铃 Bell-LBS 30Ω *_(aka "Original Little Bell-Silver")_​*2020 - K's Temperament 小黑铃 Bell-LBBs 30Ω* _(aka "New Little Black Bell S")_​


----------



## nymz

Do anyone know which buds are these? Just got them as a freebie


----------



## Braekfast (Aug 23, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> *LBBs (aka LBBS) *not LBS which is a completely different (older) model.
> 
> *2018 - K's Temperament 小铃 Bell-LBS 30Ω *_(aka "Original Little Bell-Silver")_​*2020 - K's Temperament 小黑铃 Bell-LBBs 30Ω* _(aka "New Little Black Bell S")_​


Oh, did I screw up ordering? The naming on aliexpress gets confusing sometimes. I got the first option from here
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html
The ones with the cloth around part of the cable.


----------



## furyossa (Aug 23, 2021)

nymz said:


> Do anyone know which buds are these? Just got them as a freebie


They are Hidizs buds, very bad SQ
Also, the shell is made of cheap plastic. I tried some DIY drivers with Hidizs shell and sound is terrible
BTW... this shell is the copy of AKG K314 model


----------



## Cynical L (Aug 23, 2021)

Braekfast said:


> Oh, did I screw up ordering? The naming on aliexpress gets confusing sometimes. I got the first option from here
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html
> The ones with the cloth around part of the cable.


The "black with mic" and the "white no mic" ones are the ones you _don't_ want. The other one is out of stock for me so I can't see if there is a cloth.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Braekfast said:


> Oh, did I screw up ordering? The naming on aliexpress gets confusing sometimes. I got the first option from here
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html
> The ones with the cloth around part of the cable.


You got the right one.


----------



## Braekfast

RikudouGoku said:


> You got the right one.


Oh great, thank you for confirming that. I panicked there for a second   
I also just now noticed that your review is the first one on that listing, completely missed that somehow.


----------



## nymz

furyossa said:


> They are Hidizs buds, very bad SQ
> Also, the shell is made of cheap plastic. I tried some DIY drivers with Hidizs shell and sound is terrible
> BTW... this shell is the copy of AKG K314 model



Thanks. They are terrible, indeed.


----------



## furyossa

nymz said:


> Thanks. They are terrible, indeed.


 
They are not for free for no reason.


----------



## nymz

For sure, nothing good is free on this life.

My RY4S 300ohm and RY4S plus 32ohm finally arrived, almost 3 months later...

Couple of songs in, gonna do some testing later, but sounds good so far.


----------



## furyossa

nymz said:


> For sure, nothing good is free on this life.
> 
> My RY4S 300ohm and RY4S plus 32ohm finally arrived, almost 3 months later...
> 
> Couple of songs in, gonna do some testing later, but sounds good so far.


For that price, I still haven't come across a better pair of buds than RY4S+ (silver)


----------



## nymz

furyossa said:


> For that price, I still haven't come across a better pair of buds than RY4S+ (silver)



Yeah, for sure they are great for price. I also noticed better SQ on the plus version. 300ohm sounded to thin.

With the right gears, this might be the poor man's VE Zen.


----------



## MagikzzSoldier

Hi everyone i ordered the yincrow x6 but i also want to buy the RY4S. Are they better than the yincrows or am i wasting my time ( i want a lot of bass ) also there is a regular version and a "plus" version which one should i get ?


----------



## n00b

Bell Ti PLUS Review dropped, not mine: https://min.news/en/digital/985f117c0e8f97cdef27106143ca2a8a.html

I'm kind of thinking about getting one and then selling a bunch of stuff I have if I like it lol


----------



## fonkepala

nymz said:


> Yeah, for sure they are great for price. I also noticed better SQ on the plus version. 300ohm sounded to thin.
> 
> With the right gears, this might be the poor man's VE Zen.


That RY4S Plus is quite something for the price. I've been using mine for about a week already now and am satisfied with the SQ. Surprisingly deep & powerful bass. Next up on my rotation list is the Zen LL, but for now I'm not in a rush to put away this RY4S Plus. I guess that says something.


----------



## fonkepala

Dany1 said:


> Bought the LBBS for $25 ....Feeling so Happy!


Good deal! I paid twice that amount when I bought the LBBs from Taobao a year ago.


----------



## SiggyFraud

Dany1 said:


> Bought the LBBS for $25 ....Feeling so Happy!


Got mine for $37, which is a pretty good deal, considering the fact that since July I need to pay 23% VAT on all my AE purchases, as I live in the EU.


----------



## Chessnaudio

n00b said:


> Bell Ti PLUS Review dropped, not mine: https://min.news/en/digital/985f117c0e8f97cdef27106143ca2a8a.html
> 
> I'm kind of thinking about getting one and then selling a bunch of stuff I have if I like it lol


I want those so bad! The cost though😵


----------



## MagikzzSoldier

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html?spm=a2g0w.12057483.detail.3.810217282CCSUK
which model are the lbbs white no mic or black with mic ?
Thank you


----------



## RikudouGoku

MagikzzSoldier said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html?spm=a2g0w.12057483.detail.3.810217282CCSUK
> which model are the lbbs white no mic or black with mic ?
> Thank you


It is sold out now it seems.





The correct one is the blue marked one on the left.


it is on these 2 stores though, but not as good discount as on NiceCHK.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002787930610.html
(BellLBs Black no mic)


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002788439606.html
(BellLBs-no mic)


----------



## MagikzzSoldier

RikudouGoku said:


> It is sold out now it seems.
> 
> 
> The correct one is the blue marked one on the left.
> ...


Thank you i hope NiceCHK gets it together because the other stores are way more expensive


----------



## Rary

RikudouGoku said:


> Lucky bag earbud:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003181873387.html
> 
> Anyone know what it is?


This is so tempting!
The question now is: how many should i buy? It looks like the sweet spot is either 1 piece or 5 pieces.

I might consider buying 5 pieces to test different DIY drivers.
I think this shell might work great with drivers that use small mx500 metal covers like N50 32ohm or 19-21 Ti 32ohm...and it would be a great way to use the 3€ off 20€ coupon. 

For all europeans this might be useful to compare all offerings:




I was also considering the Zen Lite for 58€ but i'm not 100% sure about the SQ and the price. I really like the form factor and from what i read it's supposed to be quite dark with good note weight (that's exactly what i like) but it has average technicalities and it's overall worse than Zen 2.0. 
Should i just wait and buy a Zen 2.0 once i get a good deal?


----------



## Ronion

Rary said:


> I was also considering the Zen Lite for 58€ but i'm not 100% sure about the SQ and the price. I really like the form factor and from what i read it's supposed to be quite dark with good note weight (that's exactly what i like) but it has average technicalities and it's overall worse than Zen 2.0.
> Should i just wait and buy a Zen 2.0 once i get a good deal?


I have them and that is an excellent description of them Except I don’t have the Zen 2 to compare to.  Its technicalities are better than most of my $10 ish buds, but closer to them than they are to my SMABATs.  My Earbuds anonymous have better technicalities as well and they were only $25.


----------



## Rary

I just couldn't resist.




Spoiler: help


----------



## MelodyMood (Aug 23, 2021)

I am going to order SMABAT M0 Driver Modules (+ Shell) with 40 Ohms version. There are few reviews on Head-Fi and other places also and each of them mentioned that it is very thin sounding and lacks bass and no sub-bass. Is that so? Only that these all reviews are for 20 Ohms version and not 40 Ohms so I am not sire if that will make big difference.

If we compare to Monk Plus, how good they are? Considering I am going to spend 3-4 times more price for these (after discount around 28 AUD for Driver + Shell and 15 AUD for Cable which is still on the way).

Is there any review of 40 Ohms or any comparison? I received Rays4 MMCX Earbud and one cable which I ordered from ebay. Cable is not very soft and slightly stiff. Sound is not bad and it may open little after some more listening. But if I want to order SMABAT M0, how good it will be considering they are expensive.

Also, any comparison or review on Monk Plus SPC Version? Is it much better than Monk Plus Smoke Standard version and worth ordering? Pls suggest. Thanks.


----------



## baskingshark

MagikzzSoldier said:


> Hi everyone i ordered the yincrow x6 but i also want to buy the RY4S. Are they better than the yincrows or am i wasting my time ( i want a lot of bass ) also there is a regular version and a "plus" version which one should i get ?



The RY4S Plus version (32 ohm) has more bass than the original RY4S.

If you want more bass as per your post, opt for the RY4S Plus. There's also a RY4S 300 ohm version which is more U shaped and requires amping as per the impedance. The 300 ohm version is less bassy than RY4S Plus but the bass is tighter.

Between RY4S Plus and Yincrow X6, the RY4S is more V shaped. The Yincrow X6 is more L shaped. The RY4S Plus can be a bit shouty at the upper mids area, and the midbass bleeds a bit more than the Yincrow X6. X6 is less fatiguing in the higher frequencies and has a tinge more subbass extension and a slightly tigher bass with more texture. Between the 2, I'll take the Yincrow X6, but the X6 is also more expensive.

And more importantly, if you don't by the Yincrow X6, @RikudouGoku will go after you.


----------



## jao29 (Aug 23, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Have fun.



Lol who is he?

edit: nevermind. Turns out he has a iem ranking list.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 24, 2021)

jao29 said:


> Lol who is he?
> 
> edit: nevermind. Turns out he has a iem ranking list.


Every medium (form) of transducer has it's pros along with a few unavoidable resulting cons. I just don't get why "extremism" and/or heavy "x vs x" debates have to enter such a subjective hobby like this (simply considering how widely varying it is by the nature of how we hear; music genres, listening levels & environments; and different body shapes). As much as I like and prefer earbuds I will quickly acknowledge that my open backs, close backs, on ears, noise cancellation, and IEM earphones/headphones each do some things more superior than the other and yes even better than my cherished earbuds.

Sometimes I think it is simply people trying to justify the $$$ they have spent and why this Nazi like mentality creeps in and perhaps why it is so prevalent with a many IEM user these days. Of all mediums I think it would be safe to say that the IEM has seen the quickest increase in pricing at the cost of the fastest decrease in price-to-performance ratio. Again, I like what IEMs offer and I freely admit I have spent ludicrous sums to acquire them... unfortunately, my ears no longer cooperate with them so at least my wallet is pleased about it.

Also, I think many "anti-earbuders" completely misunderstand why we have gravitated towards earbuds as well. Maybe a good time to offer this up again as I definitely see a lot of pros there that easily can outweigh the few cons that we all freely admit exists with earbuds:





* https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16131288*


----------



## MelodyMood

MelodyMood said:


> I am going to order SMABAT M0 Driver Modules (+ Shell) with 40 Ohms version. There are few reviews on Head-Fi and other places also and each of them mentioned that it is very thin sounding and lacks bass and no sub-bass. Is that so? Only that these all reviews are for 20 Ohms version and not 40 Ohms so I am not sire if that will make big difference.
> 
> If we compare to Monk Plus, how good they are? Considering I am going to spend 3-4 times more price for these (after discount around 28 AUD for Driver + Shell and 15 AUD for Cable which is still on the way).
> 
> ...



*Any view on this? I appreciate your help here. Thanks.* **


----------



## Penon (Aug 24, 2021)

Hello everyone,
Because many customers sent emails saying that they wanted* HE150Pro*, the HE150Pro earbud shell was used up, so it was discontinued. I asked the manufacturer to produce some, it is ready now, but the shell color has been changed from black to brown, There is no HE LOGO on the earbud shell, but changed to TY.

https://penonaudio.com/he-150pro.html


----------



## MelodyMood (Aug 24, 2021)

Penon said:


> Hello everyone,
> Because many customers sent emails saying that they wanted* HE150Pro*, the HE150Pro earbud shell was used up, so it was discontinued. I asked the manufacturer to produce some, it is ready now, but the shell color has been changed from black to brown, There is no HE LOGO on the earbud shell, but changed to TY.
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/he-150pro.html



Does it has Mic option too? Earbud without Mic is like Car without Steering or without Tyres for me


----------



## furyossa (Aug 24, 2021)

Penon said:


> Hello everyone,
> Because many customers sent emails saying that they wanted* HE150Pro*, the HE150Pro earbud shell was used up, so it was discontinued. I asked the manufacturer to produce some, it is ready now, but the shell color has been changed from black to brown, There is no HE LOGO on the earbud shell, but changed to TY.
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/he-150pro.html


This is great news. Thanks! 
I own both models, HE150 and HE150Pro and I think that they have great value in relation to their price.
Can we expect to see HE150 (MX500) back in stock? *I definitely vote for this model*🙏


----------



## Kamen555

jao29 said:


> Lol who is he?
> 
> edit: nevermind. Turns out he has a iem ranking list.


Isit d same as d argument with tube amps? Vinyl? Inherently problematic mediums... But still enjoyable.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Kamen555 said:


> Isit d same as d argument with tube amps? Vinyl? Inherently problematic mediums... But still enjoyable.


Long time no hear *@Kamen555*! How have been your Faaeal Datura Pros... treating you well I hope?


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> This is great news. Thanks!
> I own both models, HE150 and HE150Pro and I think that they have great value in relation to their price.
> Can we expect to see HE150 (MX500) back in stock? *I definitely vote for this model*🙏


 Yep, for my HE150 it is especially interesting,


----------



## axhng

MelodyMood said:


> I am going to order SMABAT M0 Driver Modules (+ Shell) with 40 Ohms version. There are few reviews on Head-Fi and other places also and each of them mentioned that it is very thin sounding and lacks bass and no sub-bass. Is that so? Only that these all reviews are for 20 Ohms version and not 40 Ohms so I am not sire if that will make big difference.
> 
> If we compare to Monk Plus, how good they are? Considering I am going to spend 3-4 times more price for these (after discount around 28 AUD for Driver + Shell and 15 AUD for Cable which is still on the way).
> 
> ...



https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-m2s-pro.25238/reviews
you could try asking over here? the review by cappuchino mentioned this...



> *M0/M2s Pro Experiment…*
> 
> So, I decided to swap out the drivers of the two earbuds and here are my short impressions:
> 
> ...



and if i'm not wrong, that 40 Ohms driver is pretty much the one used in the M2s Pro?


----------



## fonkepala

Penon said:


> Hello everyone,
> Because many customers sent emails saying that they wanted* HE150Pro*, the HE150Pro earbud shell was used up, so it was discontinued. I asked the manufacturer to produce some, it is ready now, but the shell color has been changed from black to brown, There is no HE LOGO on the earbud shell, but changed to TY.
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/he-150pro.html


I daresay this brown shell looks many times better than the original. 

And yes, if the HE150 were made available again, it'd be great.


----------



## Cynical L

MelodyMood said:


> I am going to order SMABAT M0 Driver Modules (+ Shell) with 40 Ohms version. There are few reviews on Head-Fi and other places also and each of them mentioned that it is very thin sounding and lacks bass and no sub-bass. Is that so? Only that these all reviews are for 20 Ohms version and not 40 Ohms so I am not sire if that will make big difference.


Aside from ronion's testamonials in this thread the second review listed here https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-m0.25277/reviews . By JasonLucas mentions the driver swap in both the text and his video review. The black driver is the 40ohm one which he mentions in the video.


----------



## chavez

Penon said:


> Hello everyone,
> Because many customers sent emails saying that they wanted* HE150Pro*, the HE150Pro earbud shell was used up, so it was discontinued. I asked the manufacturer to produce some, it is ready now, but the shell color has been changed from black to brown, There is no HE LOGO on the earbud shell, but changed to TY.
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/he-150pro.html


I agree with others and eagerly wait if mx500 HE150 will be available again 🙏🙏🙏.


----------



## jrazmar

Anybody tried the ISN Rambo II? I have seen a review and it seems very good.


----------



## rprodrigues

Penon said:


> Hello everyone,
> Because many customers sent emails saying that they wanted* HE150Pro*, the HE150Pro earbud shell was used up, so it was discontinued. I asked the manufacturer to produce some, it is ready now, but the shell color has been changed from black to brown, There is no HE LOGO on the earbud shell, but changed to TY.
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/he-150pro.html



This is great news for sure. 
What about the model he150?


----------



## Kamen555

WoodyLuvr said:


> Long time no hear *@Kamen555*! How have been your Faaeal Datura Pros... treating you well I hope?


I'm doing OK in dese pandemic times. Hope ur doing well too. 

D Datura Pro is still on regular rotation in my listening sessions, so I'll say they r still good to me. 😊 Haven't gotten tired of them yet.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 24, 2021)

Kamen555 said:


> I'm doing OK in dese pandemic times. Hope ur doing well too.
> 
> D Datura Pro is still on regular rotation in my listening sessions, so I'll say they r still good to me. 😊 Haven't gotten tired of them yet.


Assuming you haven't been lurking, here are a number of interesting earbuds released since you have been away that may be of interest to you... many of which priced at a steal.

2020 - Ks Temperament 小黑铃 Bell-LBBs (30Ω; aka "New Little Black Bell S")​2020 - Shozy SG (32Ω; first production were 36Ω)​​2021 - Faaeal Iris Ancestor (32Ω)​2021 - JCALLY EP09 (32Ω)​2021 - Q'labs #5 (32Ω; Red Concept)​2021 - Smabat M0 (20Ω; DIY Modular Earbud)​2021 - Smabat M2s Pro (40Ω; Modular Earbud)​2021 - Shozy Cygnus II (32Ω)​2021 - VE Monk Slim Metal PK Standard Edition (32Ω; aka "Monk SM") --- I haven't heard these yet ---​2021 - NiceHCK B40 v2021 (32Ω; w/ or w/o mic...  yes, the almighty B40 is back again!) --- I haven't heard these yet ---​​Hopefully, a few others will chime in with anything that I might have inadvertently missed.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

A preview of what is happening over on the *Blur Lovers Thread*

*


*​


----------



## Nool

jrazmar said:


> Anybody tried the ISN Rambo II? I have seen a review and it seems very good.



Depends what you want out of earbuds, I'd recommend against the ISN Rambo II largely due to comfort (heavy metal shells are hard to keep in place), the overall sound isn't bad but nothing that really makes it worth its price, especially compared to something like the yincrow x6.


----------



## rprodrigues (Aug 24, 2021)

jrazmar said:


> Anybody tried the ISN Rambo II? I have seen a review and it seems very good.


It is good for vocals, but doesn't worth its price.

Some of the reviews I've read on them don't match what they are (my set is not faulty).


----------



## MelodyMood (Aug 24, 2021)

axhng said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-m2s-pro.25238/reviews
> you could try asking over here? the review by cappuchino mentioned this...
> 
> 
> and if i'm not wrong, that 40 Ohms driver is pretty much the one used in the M2s Pro?






Cynical L said:


> Aside from ronion's testamonials in this thread the second review listed here https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-m0.25277/reviews . By JasonLucas mentions the driver swap in both the text and his video review. The black driver is the 40ohm one which he mentions in the video.



*Thanks for sharing the review links. Not too sure if they will use higher price driver for lower price earbuds but overall the review is confusing. Driver Swap may not be possible as no one will buy both earbuds just to test how Driver Swap in different shell works.

Also, I now feel that as these Earbud Manufacturer provide such an expensive earbuds free to many people just to write review, they may not be able to write 100% True review. It is not possible for anyone that he gives honest opinion for something he gets for free. It is like Celebrities endorsing the products they may never use but still say this is great. 

In both the reviews, they did not give any honest opinion if one should spend such a big amount to buy these earbuds o not? At few places they say it is good, and few places they say thin sounding. Then say Bass is there, then say it is not not there, clarity is there, but not there.

No comparison with Monk+ or any other earbuds which many people use. It is very difficult to rely on these paid reviews in my opinion. Let's see if I can still take risk of buying M0 40 Ohms.*


----------



## Ronion (Aug 24, 2021)

Well I just tried the SMABAT 40Ohm driver in the M0 shell with my trusty A5.  I’d have to say “it’s okay, but it’s not in the same league as listening through the B4X.”  The notes and instruments are slightly better delineated, but the bass gets too thin, stringed instruments sound thinner and less resonant, and the sense of space sounds wider, but the headspace is all to the sides.  The B4X has an enveloping soundstage comparatively, warmth with strings, choirs sound big and in front, and it just has a better tonal balance in general.  The A5 just isn’t as complimentary to the buds or the genre.


----------



## iemhater

I ordered lbbs, hope the build quality is better than datura pro.


----------



## MelodyMood

Ronion said:


> Well I just tried the SMABAT 40Ohm driver in the M0 shell with my trusty A5.  I’d have to say “it’s okay, but it’s not in the same league as listening through the B4X.”  The notes and instruments are slightly better delineated, but the bass gets too thin, stringed instruments sound thinner and less resonant, and the sense of space sounds wider, but the headspace is all to the sides.  The B4X has an enveloping soundstage comparatively, warmth with strings, choirs sound big and in front, and it just has a better tonal balance in general.  The A5 just isn’t as complimentary to the buds or the genre.



BX4 is Amp. Right? When you say Bass is too Thin, it is like think sounding earbud overall? Like not even close to Monk Plus in any comparison? Then what is the use of spending 4-5 times more price than Monk+? 

So far all the reviews related with M0 is paid ones only and not a single review which is unbiased. Obviously, when one gets it for free, you cannot provide the correct review but at the same time, tries to play little safe too. 

OIf B4X is earbud, then do you have link?


----------



## rprodrigues (Aug 24, 2021)

@MelodyMood

I share your concerns about reviews even though I do trust some reviewers.

B4x is a portable tube amplifier. You may take a look at it here and read some good posts about it here.


----------



## Ronion

The bass is present and deep with the 40Ohm driver, you can see how it graphs, but tight and fast.  The B4X loosens it up a bit and adds weight.  People’s bass preferences vary, but I like’em big and round.  The B4X does that to them.


----------



## Ronion (Aug 24, 2021)

Rary said:


> I was also considering the Zen Lite for 58€ but i'm not 100% sure about the SQ and the price. I really like the form factor and from what i read it's supposed to be quite dark with good note weight (that's exactly what i like) but it has average technicalities and it's overall worse than Zen 2.0.
> Should i just wait and buy a Zen 2.0 once i get a good deal?


I should add that I listen to the Zen Lite more than any other piece of audio gear I own, but I listen to it balanced and EQed through the Qudelix with donut foams.  I cut some mid bass, boost the presence and air regions (air>presence), and voila, perfection.  The shell shape is comfortable and stable.  i Occasionally forget they are there when the music stops playing.


----------



## MelodyMood (Aug 24, 2021)

rprodrigues said:


> @MelodyMood
> 
> I share your concerns about reviews even though I do trust some reviewers.
> 
> B4x is a portable tube amplifier. You may take a look at it here and read some good posts about it here.


Thanks for sharing. I usually do not use these Amps and Connectors. I like to keep it very simply and do not prefer to use external connectors also like DAC or Adapter with Chip for Earphones etc. B4X looks very Bulky for taste. If I like to use external Sound Device, then something like iPod Nano or similar small/light weight device will be the one I would prefer to carry.  

There is an option of Amp in PowerAmp but I keep that to mid level or just above default level only. And 15-20% Stereo Expand level.



Ronion said:


> The bass is present and deep with the 40Ohm driver, you can see how it graphs, but tight and fast.  The B4X loosens it up a bit and adds weight.  People’s bass preferences vary, but I like’em big and round.  The B4X does that to them.



Ok. So 40 Ohms one is not very Thin Sounding and can we say it is much better than Monk Plus in terms of every department? I like to have good level of bass and some Sub-bass feel also but don't want to compromise on overall sound quality and tiny details which is usually not there in bass Heavy earphones. M0 40 Ohms is 5X than Monk Plus in price but if it is even 2X in sound quality, then I guess money is worth spending.


----------



## jrazmar (Aug 24, 2021)

Nool said:


> Depends what you want out of earbuds, I'd recommend against the ISN Rambo II largely due to comfort (heavy metal shells are hard to keep in place), the overall sound isn't bad but nothing that really makes it worth its price, especially compared to something like the yincrow x6.


Okay. Thanks for the advice. You have saved me some money to spend elsewhere. Maybe I will finally try the X6 and see what all the rave is about. 


rprodrigues said:


> It is good for vocals, but doesn't worth its price.
> 
> Some of the reviews I've read on them don't match what they are (my set is not faulty).


Yes, I am just curious how all the reviews out there are so favorable and even compared it against other TOTL earbuds (that QJ21 looks terrific). Yes, I'm after the vocals and mids in general for this earbuds but if construction and comfort is the likes of Liebesleid, I think I'll pass. I'm good with either MX500 or PK style design. Thanks.

@rprodrigues So do you have now the F150C? How was it? Do you like it?


----------



## rprodrigues

@jrazmar 

Not yet. It is still with the postal service.


----------



## chinmie

jrazmar said:


> Maybe I will finally try the X6 and see what all the rave is about.



me too, I'm seeing this at my local market at around $8, might try it out just for curiosity sake


----------



## baskingshark

chinmie said:


> me too, I'm seeing this at my local market at around $8, might try it out just for curiosity sake



Yincrow X6 is like a BLON BL-03 of the earbud world. Bassy and warm, non fatiguing. Good tonality and timbre, but bottlenecked in technicalities, like the BLON BL-03.

The Yincrow's X6 bass is textured and well extended though, which is different from the boomy and undefined midbass of the BLON BL-03.


----------



## Min2

Nicehck's "Lucky draw" bag. What could it be?


----------



## MelodyMood

Min2 said:


> Nicehck's "Lucky draw" bag. What could it be?


Don't fall for this gimmick. I also paid around USD $10 once for some Secret Earbud and it came out as B40 which was not good. I even misplaced it somewhere. It may be the same also


----------



## Ronion

FWIW, I've never heard the Monk Plus.


----------



## nymz

Ronion said:


> FWIW, I've never heard the Monk Plus.



And also keep in mind Monk Plus (smoke edition) sound different than its SPC edition. I feel SPC edition is a nice bud for people trying stuff up to 20 bucks. I dont like the smoke edition, tho. 

Source: I own both.


----------



## MelodyMood

Ronion said:


> FWIW, I've never heard the Monk Plus.


They are nice. Only that it lacks slightly more bass and little sub-bass can make it really really good earbuds. But still great value for money. Non Mic version is only $10 including shipping  which is not bad at all. There will be at least 1000 review or comparison of Monk Plus across the internet.


----------



## MelodyMood (Aug 25, 2021)

nymz said:


> And also keep in mind Monk Plus (smoke edition) sound different than its SPC edition. I feel SPC edition is a nice bud for people trying stuff up to 20 bucks. I dont like the smoke edition, tho.
> 
> Source: I own both.


Brother. I am really looking to find comparison between Smoke and SPC. I am almost going to order one but not sure if 3X price of SPC is worth spending or not. Can you pls provide some more details on SPC compare to Smoke. What difference do you feel or hear in SPC compare to Smoke? I have Smoke but this is 2nd time it is broken so thinking of ordering 2 Qnty or may be order 1 SPC.

It will be highly appreciated if you can pls provide some view here. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Kamen555

WoodyLuvr said:


> Assuming you haven't been lurking, here are a number of interesting earbuds released since you have been away that may be of interest to you... many of which priced at a steal.
> 
> 2020 - Ks Temperament 小黑铃 Bell-LBBs (30Ω; aka "New Little Black Bell S")​2020 - Shozy SG (32Ω; first production were 36Ω)​​2021 - Faaeal Iris Ancestor (32Ω)​2021 - JCALLY EP09 (32Ω)​2021 - Q'labs #5 (32Ω; Red Concept)​2021 - Smabat M0 (20Ω; DIY Modular Earbud)​2021 - Smabat M2s Pro (40Ω; Modular Earbud)​2021 - Shozy Cygnus II (32Ω)​2021 - VE Monk Slim Metal PK Standard Edition (32Ω; aka "Monk SM") --- I haven't heard these yet ---​2021 - NiceHCK B40 v2021 (32Ω; w/ or w/o mic...  yes, the almighty B40 is back again!) --- I haven't heard these yet ---​​Hopefully, a few others will chime in with anything that I might have inadvertently missed.


Yea, that's quite a list! 😮

I'm eyeing d smabat (one I can afford!) n K's LBBS...

Hopefully Ill get a try at them soon.


----------



## wskl

Min2 said:


> Nicehck's "Lucky draw" bag. What could it be?



Already answered by @uneri in post #57,399, it is the Qian39.


----------



## nymz (Aug 25, 2021)

MelodyMood said:


> Brother. I am really looking to find comparison between Smoke and SPC. I am almost going to order one but not sure if 3X price of SPC is worth spending or not. Can you pls provide some more details on SPC compare to Smoke. What difference do you feel or hear in SPC compare to Smoke? I have Smoke but this is 2nd time it is broken so thinking of ordering 2 Qnty or may be order 1 SPC.



Sure, I'll try to resume it.

Normal smoke edition sounds veiled to me, like there's some layer between you and the sound, which I hate.
SPC let's it scale better and removes some of that veil. I feel it has slightly more detail and the mid bass is better, as it dont bleed as much into mids (which I really value). Sound stage is also slighly improved, but I think it's psycoaccousting from treble/detail.

I use it foamless, tho. I prefer clearer signatures and detail to bassy bloated signatures. I really believe VE stuff sounds better without foams or with donuts/non thick foams (Zen is the best example of this), but YMMV.

To be honest, I'd not order any of the two. Just grabed some buds from a box (trying to downsize) and did some very quick comparitions. My picks would be, within my collection:

*** Warning: I know nothing about this hobby compared to people like @WoodyLuvr, @RikudouGoku or @furyossa, just to name some. My opinions should be taken with a grain of salt and you should seek opinions like these guy's over mine. I'm a music enthusiast who got into the hobby around April/May and got into the bud world even later. ***


*Under 20 USD:*​
Signature​Model​Notes​BassYinxcrow X6Used with full foams. One of the best basses in the bud hobby, despite the price. End-game to some. Chuck Norris approval. Can come with a mic on cable, 3.5mm.BalancedRY4S Plus 32ohmUsed foamless. Poor man's ZEN 2.0. Great value for price. Doesn't come with a cable, which is a pro and a con. MMCX connection.



*Under 50 USD:*​
Signature​Model​Notes​BassM2S ProUsed with donut foams. Golden driver is an upgrade, imo. Great bass. When used over-ear, gets a different signature, losing some mid/sub bass but gaining airy, clarity and detail, which I prefer. MMCX connection.BalancedLBBSUsed with stock full foams. Best bang-for-buck deal in the game, imo. Does everything right, only beaten by high-end stuff. Cable is not detachable tho, might have some small microphonics. End-game to most people. No mic/different cable selection, 3.5mm only.



*Under 200 USD:*​
Signature​Model​Notes​Bass/Slight V-Shape/FUN!Blur 266 PK32 32ohm "High Mountain Tuning"Used with stock full foams.
Best bud on my collection. Does everything right. Great detail and separation, even on very busy tracks. Huge sound stage and air. Best bass on my collection. Makes some more expensive IEMs sound like a robbery.Balanced/Vocal orientedBlur OFC MX64 "Special Tuning Edition"Used with stock full foams.
Tuned to bring out the best of vocals and genres lick jazz, classic, etc. Still has some of the best bass I've heard, only beaten by her brother PK32. Great detail and separation, even on very busy tracks. Huge sound stage and air. Makes some more expensive IEMs that focus on the same signature sound like a robbery.


Edit: tables got some crappy format after posting, sorry, tried my best.


----------



## SiggyFraud

MelodyMood said:


> Brother. I am really looking to find comparison between Smoke and SPC. I am almost going to order one but not sure if 3X price of SPC is worth spending or not. Can you pls provide some more details on SPC compare to Smoke. What difference do you feel or hear in SPC compare to Smoke? I have Smoke but this is 2nd time it is broken so thinking of ordering 2 Qnty or may be order 1 SPC.
> 
> It will be highly appreciated if you can pls provide some view here. Thanks in advance.


I found this review pretty helpful when I pondered buying Monk Plus SPC a few years back.


----------



## Ronion

So I wrote the piece to teach my little niece how to play in ensemble using a basic (with little variations) Cmaj scale for the easy/beginner upper piano part.  I mixed it on the Yincrow X6 just for fun.  Unfortunately the upload is seriously compressed, but it is what it is if you want a free hosting service.  Let me know if the mix sound okay through your buds.


----------



## nymz

Ronion said:


> So I wrote the piece to teach my little niece how to play in ensemble using a basic (with little variations) Cmaj scale for the easy/beginner upper piano part.  I mixed it on the Yincrow X6 just for fun.  Unfortunately the upload is seriously compressed, but it is what it is if you want a free hosting service.  Let me know if the mix sound okay through your buds.




Thanks for this share, awsome work and skills


----------



## Ronion

Thanks Nymz!  I have to update the score yet: I rewrote the Cello and Violin part today and in truth it's still not exactly what I'm going for but it's close now.  If my sample library was a bit more expressive and my keyboard had aftertouch and mod wheels it would sound better.  I'd love to do it acoustically, but I'm lazy (truth).  Just mixing a piano scares me.  I bet I will when I'm completely satisfied.


----------



## 0b0d0

Hello Head-fiers comrades, i would like to demand your help. I want out and i want to get something nice for my audio before that.

I gonna get a little amp and a DAC,  maybe something like the Topping a50s ans d30 pro. And i want a nice pair of buds to go with it. 
Mainly for gaming, in fact, as i tend, for quite a few tears now, to listen to a lot of talking (with intras) and just a little bit of music. Guess i need the focus on gaming to temporally forget what i learned. (The gaming is done on xbox one and will be done on a series x, if i manage to get one someday, so no usb-in for the DAC. Im' a Battlefield guy and i love immersive simulations and FPRPGs, from Morrowind to Dishonored)...

It got to be buds since that the one form factor for me. Only got a few of them, TG - 38S, RW-9, Aurvana Air, EP09, E1008 ( what a crappy cable, can't understand the point of having a nice braided low section with such a thin an fragile upper one)... And the first gen. EBX , which is my favorite for gaming.

Got my eyes on some reaaaally shiny things, since i decided to go " end-game " to really end my game, like, first of all,  the Lyra Nature Limited Edition then the Maria II, . and the Chaconne (but as baskingshark would say, non removable cable at this price is a bit worrisome).

The EBX, sits a bit loose in my ears, with large-cells covers on them. Crisp is a word i read a lot in EBX reviews back in the days. Guess i like that. (It's a bit hot with quite some tracks, i admit).  Would love big extension with  a bit of subs, quick bass, clear and clean mids, airy trebble, a huge holographic soundstage and good overall technicalities... 

So any more input on those ones and top tiers earbuds in general in the context of gaming would be really appreciated.

Thanks in advance, head-fiers.


----------



## fonkepala

Nool said:


> Depends what you want out of earbuds, I'd recommend against the ISN Rambo II largely due to comfort (heavy metal shells are hard to keep in place)...


Can confirm. I have the Hessian Ansata, the 'sibling' of the Rambo II. It gives me severe fit and comfort issues. The shells, while nicely built, are heavy and wouldn't stay in place. Tried all sorts of foam configurations to no avail.


----------



## Ronion

Did you try shark fins?


----------



## northernsound

baskingshark said:


> Yincrow X6 is like a BLON BL-03 of the earbud world. Bassy and warm, non fatiguing. Good tonality and timbre, but bottlenecked in technicalities, like the BLON BL-03.
> 
> The Yincrow's X6 bass is textured and well extended though, which is different from the boomy and undefined midbass of the BLON BL-03.


Thank you for that info, after reading in this thread today I ordered the Yincrow X6 today to someone who prefers earbuds over IEMs but still want a warm sound signature.


----------



## RikudouGoku

northernsound said:


> Thank you for that info, after reading in this thread today I ordered the Yincrow X6 today to someone who prefers earbuds over IEMs but still want a warm sound signature.


Enjoy them.


----------



## northernsound

RikudouGoku said:


> Enjoy them.


Thank you, I hope she will.


----------



## HombreCangrejo

New driver for M2s/M0, with LCP dome, at the same price that the 150 Ohm one.

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/4001268432243.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.33813c00R8qND7&mp=1

Still undecided about getting the Super One Driver. Latest opinions in Ali are positive.


----------



## Rary

Ronion said:


> I should add that I listen to the Zen Lite more than any other piece of audio gear I own, but I listen to it balanced and EQed through the Qudelix with donut foams.  I cut some mid bass, boost the presence and air regions (air>presence), and voila, perfection.  The shell shape is comfortable and stable.  i Occasionally forget they are there when the music stops playing.


I almost convicend myself to wait at least for the 11.11 sale since i already have more than 10 new earbuds coming in the next 1-2 months, but i feel like i'm missing out on a great set. Does it take EQ well?
Did you get the bundle with the usb dac/amp? Is it any good? I wouldn't mind a good backup usb dac, especially if it doesn't hiss as loud as the Fever dac.


----------



## Ronion (Aug 25, 2021)

Rary said:


> I almost convicend myself to wait at least for the 11.11 sale since i already have more than 10 new earbuds coming in the next 1-2 months, but i feel like i'm missing out on a great set. Does it take EQ well?
> Did you get the bundle with the usb dac/amp? Is it any good? I wouldn't mind a good backup usb dac, especially if it doesn't hiss as loud as the Fever dac.


it does take EQ well—at least you can boost the treble without issues. You can’t expect clarity like the SMABAT though no matter what or even the Earbuds Anonymous.  The bass can’t be as deep either.  It’s just not as good of a driver/bud.
I did get the set.  My wife took control of the USB DAC right away—her headphone Jack broke like 2 days before it arrived (rather serendipitously) and I’ve never gotten to use it.  She mostly uses it with Grado SR60 and hasn’t had any complaints.  Those are sensitive enough to pick up problematic hiss.  That said, she’s not the most discerning listener.

In other news, my SMABAT drivers were “undeliverable” and got sent back to China and I never got any notification.  They were literally 1km from me for a week.


----------



## Rary

Ronion said:


> it does take EQ well—at least you can boost the treble without issues. You can’t expect clarity like the SMABAT though no matter what or even the Earbuds Anonymous.  The bass can’t be as deep either.  It’s just not as good of a driver/bud.
> I did get the set.  My wife took control of the USB DAC right away—her headphone Jack broke like 2 days before it arrived (rather serendipitously) and I’ve never gotten to use it.  She mostly uses it with Grado SR60 and hasn’t had any complaints.  Those are sensitive enough to pick up problematic hiss.  That said, she’s not the most discerning listener.
> 
> In other news, my SMABAT drivers were “undeliverable” and got sent back to China and I never got any notification.  They were literally 1km from me for a week.


I think i'll wait to get the Qian39 first and see how they fit my ears. I might also get a better deal during 11.11.

And for the smabat drivers, well... i bet they have messed up something in the delivery infos. The same thing happened to me 2 times and i even had to pay extra to get the package once. Don't expect much costumer support from them either. That's one of many reasons why i won't probably order anything from them again.

Thank you for all the feedback!


----------



## n00b

MelodyMood said:


> Don't fall for this gimmick. I also paid around USD $10 once for some Secret Earbud and it came out as B40 which was not good. I even misplaced it somewhere. It may be the same also


wasnt the ME80 part of a lucky bag? I am pretty sure thats how I got my pair..


----------



## n00b

HombreCangrejo said:


> New driver for M2s/M0, with LCP dome, at the same price that the 150 Ohm one.
> 
> https://es.aliexpress.com/item/4001268432243.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.33813c00R8qND7&mp=1
> 
> Still undecided about getting the Super One Driver. Latest opinions in Ali are positive.


i ordered the super one for my m2s pro shells just out of curiosity, if you can wait 10 days or so i will drop some impressions. im curious about the other driver now too..


----------



## Ronion

Rary said:


> I think i'll wait to get the Qian39 first and see how they fit my ears. I might also get a better deal during 11.11.
> 
> And for the smabat drivers, well... i bet they have messed up something in the delivery infos. The same thing happened to me 2 times and i even had to pay extra to get the package once. Don't expect much costumer support from them either. That's one of many reasons why i won't probably order anything from them again.
> 
> Thank you for all the feedback!


I think that 150 Ohm driver has to go in the M0 shell now.  I was wanting to the swap(s) with the fiber driver as well, but that may not come into fruition.  The 150 in the M2s pro shell is just awesome, but the fit isn’t the best for me.  M0 on the other hand fits like a dream.


----------



## Ronion

Okay, so I did it: I put the 150Ohm drivers in the little M0 shell and they are still beasts.  Not as beastly as in the M2s Pro shell, but still great and the fit is AWESOME!  They are a bit more congested vs nested in M2s Pro shells, but in truth they’re still my best sounding buds.  The M2S shell makes them have deeper bass and a slightly bigger headstage.  This is going to be my new daily driver.  It just overtook the Zen Lite.  Comfort is a big deal to me personally because I listen to music every moment I can And these do that is spades plus have great SQ.


----------



## Ronion

And now, one of my 40 Ohm drivers died.  Not a great day for team SMABAT.


----------



## MelodyMood

nymz said:


> Sure, I'll try to resume it.
> 
> Normal smoke edition sounds veiled to me, like there's some layer between you and the sound, which I hate.
> SPC let's it scale better and removes some of that veil. I feel it has slightly more detail and the mid bass is better, as it dont bleed as much into mids (which I really value). Sound stage is also slighly improved, but I think it's psycoaccousting from treble/detail.
> ...


*Thanks for this review and providing more details. I really appreciate you taking time in writing this and below table for me 
I also heard that someone mentioned that if I am using Phone + PowerAmp, then it is not use to buy SPC. But I don't want to use Dongle or Adapter as they are additional headache and in fact will have bad impact on the sound quality. Is that so? So shall I not consider SPC and go for Monk Plus only? And also SMABAT M0 40 Ohms (if that is actually M2S Pro. Link mentioned below).  *



nymz said:


> *Under 20 USD:*​
> Signature​Model​Notes​BassYinxcrow X6Used with full foams. One of the best basses in the bud hobby, despite the price. End-game to some. Chuck Norris approval. Can come with a mic on cable, 3.5mm.BalancedRY4S Plus 32ohmUsed foamless. Poor man's ZEN 2.0. Great value for price. Doesn't come with a cable, which is a pro and a con. MMCX connection.
> 
> *I have recently ordered RY4S MMCX. It is nice. I have Yincrow X6 also but it is broken as Mic does no work. For RY4S also, the FAAEAL cable did not delivered and in 7-8 days I will be eligible for refund. Ordered one from Ebay but it is not that good but overall Sound Quality is nice.  *
> ...


*If M0 40 Ohms is actually is M2S Pro, then I can consider that or in fact considering that seriously.  I am going to order below from SAMBAT AE Store:*

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003019400183.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001268432243.html

*Hope it is same what you mentioned above.*



nymz said:


> *Under 200 USD:*​
> Signature​Model​Notes​Bass/Slight V-Shape/FUN!Blur 266 PK32 32ohm "High Mountain Tuning"Used with stock full foams.
> Best bud on my collection. Does everything right. Great detail and separation, even on very busy tracks. Huge sound stage and air. Best bass on my collection. Makes some more expensive IEMs sound like a robbery.Balanced/Vocal orientedBlur OFC MX64 "Special Tuning Edition"Used with stock full foams.
> Tuned to bring out the best of vocals and genres lick jazz, classic, etc. Still has some of the best bass I've heard, only beaten by her brother PK32. Great detail and separation, even on very busy tracks. Huge sound stage and air. Makes some more expensive IEMs that focus on the same signature sound like a robbery.
> ...


 *Too much expensive for me to even think of buying. *


----------



## MelodyMood

n00b said:


> wasnt the ME80 part of a lucky bag? I am pretty sure thats how I got my pair..


You got $130 earphones at $10? If you are into in-ear earphones, then it is Jackpot. But as I do not use in-ear earphones, even $1000 worth in-ear earphone is useless for me


----------



## MelodyMood (Aug 25, 2021)

I came across this Blog on earbuds:
https://busrideimpression.com/2017/02/27/bus-ride-impression-earbud-battle-royal-sub-40-earbuds/

What are the favourites and best earbuds form this list? Does **** PT15 has better Bass and Warm Sound with great details especially compare to Monk Plus?


----------



## n00b

MelodyMood said:


> You got $130 earphones at $10? If you are into in-ear earphones, then it is Jackpot. But as I do not use in-ear earphones, even $1000 worth in-ear earphone is useless for me


no, im talking about the nicehck me80 that are discontinued but highly regarded. in any case, it was already determined what the earbuds in the lucky bag this time would be.


----------



## jrazmar

Where to buy the Shozy BK / BK Balanced? Cannot find them anymore anywhere. Is there someone here who is willing to sell or trade with the Turandot? PM me pls. Thanks.


----------



## DBaldock9

jrazmar said:


> Where to buy the Shozy BK / BK Balanced? Cannot find them anymore anywhere. Is there someone here who is willing to sell or trade with the Turandot? PM me pls. Thanks.



There's a used set For Sale here on Head-Fi - https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/shozy-bk-stardust-2-5mm.8347/


----------



## MelodyMood

n00b said:


> no, im talking about the nicehck me80 that are discontinued but highly regarded. in any case, it was already determined what the earbuds in the lucky bag this time would be.


Ok. I am not int IEMs so do not look or buy.   I do have 1 JVC FX-40 and one more but both without Mic and later I found IEMs are very uncomfortable for me as they are inside ear canal all the time. Also, due to seal, whatever you speak sounds very unnatural and like your voice coming from some background.


----------



## n00b

im not talking about IEMs im talking about nicehck me80 earbuds just so you know. but like i said theyre discontinued so not really relevant to the current lucky bag deal anyway


----------



## jrazmar

DBaldock9 said:


> There's a used set For Sale here on Head-Fi - https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/shozy-bk-stardust-2-5mm.8347/


Thank you sir. I will look into it.


----------



## Ronion

If it were me, I’d buy the 150 Ohm driver for either SMABAT shell over the 40 Ohm (even though I like the 40 Ohm driver and I wouldn’t consider it a mistake per se).


----------



## Barndoor

Hi Guys,
Received my first experiment with earbuds yesterday (Yincrow x6). 
Quite like the sound, but coming from iems, the fit is not as comfortable. No doubt will get better as I get used to them. 
Currently using the full foam cover that came with them.
Are there any covers you guys recommend or are stock ones about as good as it gets.


----------



## shenshen

Barndoor said:


> Hi Guys,
> Received my first experiment with earbuds yesterday (Yincrow x6).
> Quite like the sound, but coming from iems, the fit is not as comfortable. No doubt will get better as I get used to them.
> Currently using the full foam cover that came with them.
> Are there any covers you guys recommend or are stock ones about as good as it gets.


In my experience, all foam covers are more or less the same as far as comfort whether they be thicker or thin foams, donut or full. There are some silicone covers which would be different, but I haven't tried them. What about the X6 is uncomfortable?


----------



## nymz

MelodyMood said:


> *Thanks for this review and providing more details. I really appreciate you taking time in writing this and below table for me
> I also heard that someone mentioned that if I am using Phone + PowerAmp, then it is not use to buy SPC. But I don't want to use Dongle or Adapter as they are additional headache and in fact will have bad impact on the sound quality. Is that so? So shall I not consider SPC and go for Monk Plus only? And also SMABAT M0 40 Ohms (if that is actually M2S Pro. Link mentioned below).  *
> 
> 
> ...



M0 is not the same as M2S altho some people have both and they might be close in sound, but I can't confirm or deny that. Grab LBBS if they are on stock! Great upgrade from monk+


----------



## MelodyMood

nymz said:


> M0 is not the same as M2S altho some people have both and they might be close in sound, but I can't confirm or deny that. Grab LBBS if they are on stock! Great upgrade from monk+


Ok. So M0 40 Ohms is not good? LBBS is more expensive than entire M0 with Cable so not sure if I can afford. .


----------



## nymz

MelodyMood said:


> Ok. So M0 40 Ohms is not good? LBBS is more expensive than entire M0 with Cable so not sure if I can afford. .



I can't confirm or deny, since I dont own it! Should be close to m2s pro, tho. Prolly better than monk+, yes


----------



## MelodyMood

nymz said:


> I can't confirm or deny, since I dont own it! Should be close to m2s pro, tho. Prolly better than monk+, yes


Ok. So good if I buy? Does it has better Clarity, Bass and little Sub-bass feel also than Monk Plus? Or there is any other similar MMCX Kind of earbuds which I can consider? I am thinking not to consider SPC and instead buy 2 more pieces of Monk Plus and either M0 or anything else MMCX type in $30-35 range (including Cable). Not sure if **** PT15 is good or anything else like some FENGRU MMCX Earbud also I saw. But sound signature should be close to what I mentioned above.


----------



## nymz

Yes, RY4S plus (32ohm). 8usd I think, you can use the same cable


----------



## MelodyMood

nymz said:


> Yes, RY4S plus (32ohm). 8usd I think, you can use the same cable


That you suggested and I bought also.  
It is nice Module overall. Not too sure if I shud go for M0 of RY4S is same like that. I am missing little bit og Sub Bass in these earbuds and may be little bit more clarity too. But RY4S is really good. Only thing that I ordered FAAEAL MMCX Cable for that which did not arrive in 65+ days, next week I will be able to get refund for that. I waited for almost 50 days and then orderd one from Ebay. It is Ok but not that good and not very soft so not sure if that will make any difference in Sound quality.


----------



## assassin10000

assassin10000 said:


> Wish K's had done MMCX shells... so I wouldn't have had to DIY them.


----------



## Ronion

Oh, just an update on SMABAT’s customer service: they contacted me within a few hours of writing them about my parcel and they said they had contacted the delivery company and it should be sent back to me on the earliest possible boat(which is going to take a while because it’s already headed back to China).


----------



## fonkepala

MelodyMood said:


> Ok. So good if I buy? Does it has better Clarity, Bass and little Sub-bass feel also than Monk Plus? Or there is any other similar MMCX Kind of earbuds which I can consider? I am thinking not to consider SPC and instead buy 2 more pieces of Monk Plus and either M0 or anything else MMCX type in $30-35 range (including Cable). Not sure if **** PT15 is good or anything else like some FENGRU MMCX Earbud also I saw. But sound signature should be close to what I mentioned above.


IMHO, I wouldn't recommend the PT15. They're faily detailed, but very bass-lean to my ears. Plus, the shell's shape and size is quite unique, which also means it doesn't fit everyone well.



Ronion said:


> Oh, just an update on SMABAT’s customer service: they contacted me within a few hours of writing them about my parcel and they said they had contacted the delivery company and it should be sent back to me on the earliest possible boat(which is going to take a while because it’s already headed back to China).


Dang boat.


----------



## Ronion

If I had only known a day before….


----------



## poczta6788

Finally i got my package "diy mx760", they feel "powerful" compare to my old MX471.
@furyossa (and others that i don't remember the nicknames) Thanks for help.


----------



## jeejack

poczta6788 said:


> Finally i got my package "diy mx760", they feel "powerful" compare to my old MX471.
> @furyossa (and others that i don't remember the nicknames) Thanks for help.


Nice ! 😉


----------



## furyossa

poczta6788 said:


> Finally i got my package "diy mx760", they feel "powerful" compare to my old MX471.
> @furyossa (and others that i don't remember the nicknames) Thanks for help.


I'm glad that we help in your decision and that you like this driver.


----------



## LordZero

For someone that loved the **** bk2. What is the best replacement for the same price? Mine broke and can't find them anymore.


----------



## northernsound

Time for a noob-question, will the Smabat M2s Pro perform well directly hooked up to a phone or would one need an amp for it to perform well? I see that the specs are as follows but I'm not sure what that means in regard to my question:

Impedance: 40Ω
Sensitivity: 110±3dB


----------



## RikudouGoku

northernsound said:


> Time for a noob-question, will the Smabat M2s Pro perform well directly hooked up to a phone or would one need an amp for it to perform well? I see that the specs are as follows but I'm not sure what that means in regard to my question:
> 
> Impedance: 40Ω
> Sensitivity: 110±3dB


Pretty much everything sounds better with a proper amp, as smartphones are pathetically weak. 

But a sensitivity of 110db is pretty high, which means it is pretty efficient. 40 ohm is higher than average but it shouldnt be hard to drive for a phone. You be fine, but getting at least a dongle will help a lot.


----------



## northernsound

RikudouGoku said:


> Pretty much everything sounds better with a proper amp, as smartphones are pathetically weak.
> 
> But a sensitivity of 110db is pretty high, which means it is pretty efficient. 40 ohm is higher than average but it shouldnt be hard to drive for a phone. You be fine, but getting at least a dongle will help a lot.


OK, thank you very much for the reply. Very appreciated.


----------



## nymz

northernsound said:


> OK, thank you very much for the reply. Very appreciated.



Keep in mind, most of the times an 8usd apple dongle is more than enough. No need to go big buckoronies if you don't feel like it


----------



## northernsound (Aug 27, 2021)

nymz said:


> Keep in mind, most of the times an 8usd apple dongle is more than enough. No need to go big buckoronies if you don't feel like it


When you say dongle, you mean a regular USB-C to 3,5 mm adapter and your point is that, most of the time, one do not need an amp for earbuds? Or am I missing the punchline in some sort of joke about my noob-questions?


----------



## fonkepala (Aug 27, 2021)

LordZero said:


> For someone that loved the **** bk2. What is the best replacement for the same price? Mine broke and can't find them anymore.


The one that comes to my mind now is the RY4S Plus. MMCX just like the BK2 and as for the sound signature, it is warmer than the BK2 but not by a whole lot. If you're looking for something that has a similar shell to the BK2, then the ME80 is what comes to mind. Unfortunately also pretty hard to come by these days, apparently. Also, the ME80 is non-detachable.

Perhaps one of the newer Smabats, then? M0 & M2S Pro, iirc. I haven't tried any of them though, but reports here suggest that they're pretty good with the right driver config.

Hope this helps.


----------



## RikudouGoku

northernsound said:


> When you say dongle, you mean a regular USB-C to 3,5 mm adapter and your point is that, most of the time, one do not need an amp for earbuds? Or am I missing the punchline in some sort of joke about my noob-questions?


Yes, a USB-C/lightning to 3.5mm adapter. 

You can read up on them here:
https://andyaudiovault.com/donglemadness/

If you want a bluetooth amp/dac you can check this thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...w3s-and-shanling-up5-impression-added.906655/


----------



## nymz

As per usual, @RikudouGoku beat me to it and did a better job. 

From my (small) experience, apple dongle is all you need. And this is coming from a guy who bought L&P W2 12hours ago.
Most things will run perfectly fine from a cheap dongle. If they sound their best? Nope. But it's 8 bucks without dimishing returns. This is the best and most rentable 8 bucks of your journey.

This is meant for most Buds and IEMs with low impedance and ok sensibility (<= 40ohms). Over-ear headphones and high impendance buds, etc, are another story.


----------



## KokushiTsumo

What's a X6 upgrade these days? Looking for more detail


----------



## RikudouGoku

KokushiTsumo said:


> What's a X6 upgrade these days? Looking for more detail


K´s LBBS + EQ, only way to get the X6 true upgrade as far as I know.


----------



## HombreCangrejo

The "good version" of LBBS is back in stock. For those interested...

(3 units left at this moment)


----------



## emusic13

HombreCangrejo said:


> The "good version" of LBBS is back in stock. For those interested...
> 
> (3 units left at this moment)


Thanks for the update! I just ordered one although I couldnt get it down to the $25 I saw someone buy it at before


----------



## assassin10000

LordZero said:


> For someone that loved the **** bk2. What is the best replacement for the same price? Mine broke and can't find them anymore.





fonkepala said:


> The one that comes to my mind now is the RY4S Plus. MMCX just like the BK2 and as for the sound signature, it is warmer than the BK2 but not by a whole lot. If you're looking for something that has a similar shell to the BK2, then the ME80 is what comes to mind. Unfortunately also pretty hard to come by these days, apparently. Also, the ME80 is non-detachable.
> 
> Perhaps one of the newer Smabats, then? M0 & M2S Pro, iirc. I haven't tried any of them though, but reports here suggest that they're pretty good with the right driver config.
> 
> Hope this helps.



I haven't heard them but maybe the openheart earbuds?

Toneking also has several versions with different impedance that are a similar form factor.


----------



## Jmop (Aug 27, 2021)

@RikudouGoku Looking forward to your impressions on Timeless, measurements are quite close to my ideal. The specs look suitable for my Shozy Alien (gold), and the sound should blend nicely with the Alien giving the lower mids more meat. My DX120 should also be a good pairing keeping the bass tight and adding a bit of presence to the lower treble for a sharper harman curve.


----------



## zeinharis

Finally my me80 arrived, first impression is WOW soundstage (I'm using it without the foam), sound quality wise is pretty good especially with vocal. Thanks to @axhng for the discussion over me80 on his YouTube channel.


----------



## axhng

zeinharis said:


> Finally my me80 arrived, first impression is WOW soundstage (I'm using it without the foam), sound quality wise is pretty good especially with vocal. Thanks to @axhng for the discussion over me80 on his YouTube channel.


i find that the bass normally tends to suffer a bit without foams, so if you want a bit more bass, but don't really like using full foams, donut foams could be another option!  

listening to Main Squeeze's covers with them now


----------



## Jmop (Aug 28, 2021)

When I was younger I was always plugged into my EarPods, or just one Pod with the other hanging off my ear. Nowadays comfort is huge for me and I can't do most buds. Shame since I like how some of them do soundstage. Also not surprised to see that the EarPods measure decently.


----------



## northernsound

From what I've seen the Smabat M2s Pro isn't available with a mic, does anyone know of a good mmcx cable with mic for the Smabat M2s Pro?


----------



## nymz

northernsound said:


> From what I've seen the Smabat M2s Pro isn't available with a mic, does anyone know of a good mmcx cable with mic for the Smabat M2s Pro?



I only own this one with MMCX and a mic. It's nice and light for the price  can't comment on mic quality tho.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001265707752.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.45f74c4dmMAwdF


----------



## northernsound

nymz said:


> I only own this one with MMCX and a mic. It's nice and light for the price  can't comment on mic quality tho.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001265707752.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.45f74c4dmMAwdF


Thank you very much! Have you used it for calls at all?


----------



## nymz

northernsound said:


> Thank you very much! Have you used it for calls at all?



Not yet. It arrived this week and I'vent been messing with mmcx buds in the last days. It comes in a small carrying pounch. I'll leave a photo bellow.



Spoiler: Photos


----------



## northernsound

nymz said:


> Not yet. It arrived this week and I'vent been messing with mmcx buds in the last days. It comes in a small carrying pounch. I'll leave a photo bellow.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Photos


It looks nice, great tip. I'll keep a lookout for when you've made calls with it.


----------



## buzzyman

emusic13 said:


> Thanks for the update! I just ordered one although I couldnt get it down to the $25 I saw someone buy it at before


So much good is said about them here on the forum.  I could not resist, I bought it yesterday for $ 27.


----------



## nymz

Welcome to the family guys! Guess LBBS will be swarming these forums soon 👹


----------



## RikudouGoku

Jmop said:


> @RikudouGoku Looking forward to your impressions on Timeless, measurements are quite close to my ideal. The specs look suitable for my Shozy Alien (gold), and the sound should blend nicely with the Alien giving the lower mids more meat. My DX120 should also be a good pairing keeping the bass tight and adding a bit of presence to the lower treble for a sharper harman curve.


Me too, but that isnt a bud so I wont be talking about it here.


----------



## fonkepala

nymz said:


> Welcome to the family guys! Guess LBBS will be swarming these forums soon 👹


The LBBs has been out for some time, too. Good to see it has a sustained following.


----------



## Cynical L (Aug 28, 2021)

northernsound said:


> It looks nice, great tip. I'll keep a lookout for when you've made calls with it.


Just make sure you are getting a cable that is compatible with your phone, apple phones(not sure on their dongles) use a different CTIA standard than everyone else making otherwise good cables have very quiet audio. I know this issue has come up before with reviews of the NiceHCK blackwheat cable.


----------



## zeinharis

axhng said:


> i find that the bass normally tends to suffer a bit without foams, so if you want a bit more bass, but don't really like using full foams, donut foams could be another option!
> 
> listening to Main Squeeze's covers with them now



I don't feel the bass is lacking without a foam, I find it sufficient enough to bring the music alive. I've been testing it with this tracks











But you are right, they aren't meant for metal music such as this one, as it doesn't have that "very engaging" sounds.




But in the end, I'm a happy camper.


----------



## axhng

zeinharis said:


> I don't feel the bass is lacking without a foam, I find it sufficient enough to bring the music alive. I've been testing it with this tracks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


nice, glad you're liking them! Earbuds are kinda great for those live recorded albums like jazz at the pawn shop.


----------



## zeinharis

axhng said:


> nice, glad you're liking them! Earbuds are kinda great for those live recorded albums like jazz at the pawn shop.


Definitely is, but I still need to get used to with "earbuds sounds" since I'm coming eIEMs 😁👍


----------



## Alex.Grimm

DIY Tingo TC200 Pro 
https://a.aliexpress.com/_AqOPu0


----------



## assassin10000

Ordered some more MMCX ends and another LBBS. Gonna convert another pair (or two) to MMCX as well as their cables. I'll be able to compare after I'm done.

The pair I just did had a bit of channel imbalance which is why I sacrificed it for the sake of experimentation with different drivers.


----------



## Ronion

I ordered an LBBS too due to an overwhelming feeling that I was missing out on something monumental… 😆 I kid.  I kid (but I’m also sort of serious).


----------



## n00b

i dont think i mentioned it in here but i canceled my LBBS order and just said frick it, bought the bell ti pro.

so right now the buds i can offer impressions of would be:

Chaconne, M2s Pro Stock, M2s Pro golden 150 ohm, M2s Pro Super One (on the way), LBBS, Bell Ti Pro (on the way), X6 w/ mic, ME80.

i am like 95% sure theres no way the bell ti pro can actually offer even the discounted $525 price worth of performance but I'll let you know, since there seems to be no real english review of it haha


----------



## numon (Aug 28, 2021)

hi
 anyone can give impressions about sen-fer pt2021 ?clieos  massaged me before that it is the very analytical earbud that close to mojito. i need more info about soundstage wideness,sound harsh or not or thin sound as before sen_fer models
thanks.


----------



## uneri (Sep 17, 2021)

‎


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 29, 2021)

n00b said:


> i dont think i mentioned it in here but i canceled my LBBS order and just said frick it, bought the bell ti pro.
> 
> so right now the buds i can offer impressions of would be:
> 
> ...





uneri said:


> Got a Bell-Ti Plus incoming too. I ordered right when the sale started, so was able to get it for just under $500...


Awesome price points there gents, considering what the debut and introduction price was set at for the *2021 K's Temperament 钛铃 Bell-Ti Plus* back when it launched.

Although, as we all know and freely admit, _diminishing returns_ happens rather sooner than later in regards to earbuds, I do offer another perspective to consider... the particular signature and tuning offered by Ks god-tier level bells is quite unique, unlike anything else I have encountered. Therefore, if this signature and tuning matches your tastes well, coupled with their exceptional comfort with certain ear types, it may very well warrant the price.

Keeping my fingers crossed for you both that K's QC is much better on this batch of bells. Thus far, I haven't seen any *confirmed *issues being reported on any of the Chinese boards so that is a good indication.



uneri said:


> ...I saw a lot of Chinese reviews saying the Bell-Ti Plus is a more power hungry upgrade, so it's not a blind purchase for me, and I don't think I'll be too disappointed with the Plus.


Additionally, they are also feuding with one another regarding this alleged "_power hungry_" nature as the 30Ω driver's sensitivity is rated at 106 dB/mW which is not very difficult to drive from an_ Ohm's Law_ standpoint. Apparently, the shells have already been opened and thoroughly dissected (_*sacrilege! 😠 heretics! 😡*_) and it is reported that there appears to be no physical or electrical dampening that would explain and/or support why these drivers would be difficult to drive and/or power hungry as reported. Ks themselves, when launching the Plus at the *2021 3rd China (Chengdu) International Headphone Show* back in May, introduced these as a mobile solution earbud... maybe further proof that the Plus are not as power hungry or difficult to drive as some attest them to be. I sincerely look forward to hearing both of your thoughts regarding this once you receive them; we await most patiently.

To reach 120dB SPL it requires less than 1Vrms and 30mA! Two (2) volts would drive these earbuds to well over 127dBS SPL and at ~66mA which may very well be way beyond the driver specs for max current capability (which is probably around 50mA if I had to hazard a guess as most 16Ω & 30Ω drivers are rated as such).






Spoiler: More Audio Science (if you care)



To reach 110dB SPL only 0.275Vrms is required @ ~9mA.




To reach 100dB SPL only 0.087Vrms is required @ 2.89mA.




And to drive these earbuds to 90dB SPL you would only need 0.0275Vrms @ less than 1mA.


----------



## jogawag (Sep 1, 2021)

KokushiTsumo said:


> What's a X6 upgrade these days? Looking for more detail





RikudouGoku said:


> K´s LBBS + EQ, only way to get the X6 true upgrade as far as I know.


I also have K´s LBBS, but if without EQ I think the X6 true upgrade with more detail is the Ostry KC08T.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15318094


----------



## eridenti

My Apple earbuds broke so I'm thinking about getting some cheaper earbuds that are better. How's the mic quality and fit of the Faaeal Iris 2.0? Can it be easily run directly connected to the laptop and Apple dongle to phone? I have small ears and the Apple earbuds fit well enough to me, though sometimes my ears start to hurt after a few hours of wearing them.


----------



## jogawag

eridenti said:


> My Apple earbuds broke so I'm thinking about getting some cheaper earbuds that are better. How's the mic quality and fit of the Faaeal Iris 2.0? Can it be easily run directly connected to the laptop and Apple dongle to phone? I have small ears and the Apple earbuds fit well enough to me, though sometimes my ears start to hurt after a few hours of wearing them.


The Faaeal Iris 2.0 uses the MX500 shells, so it will probably be too big for your ears.
For you, I recommend the NiceHCK B40 with Mic, which uses the smaller PK shells.


----------



## eridenti

jogawag said:


> The Faaeal Iris 2.0 uses the MX500 shells, so it will probably be too big for your ears.
> For you, I recommend the NiceHCK B40 with Mic, which uses the smaller PK shells.


Oh I see, that's a shame. Looks like the one legit shop that sells the NiceHCK B40 on Shopee is out of stock though. I would buy from AE but the shipping fee is way more expensive than the items themselves. 😅


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> The Faaeal Iris 2.0 uses the MX500 shells, so it will probably be too big for your ears.
> For you, I recommend the NiceHCK B40 with Mic, which uses the smaller PK shells.


NiceHCK B40 don't use OG PK shell, it's bigger than PK


----------



## jogawag

furyossa said:


> NiceHCK B40 don't use OG PK shell, it's bigger than PK


I admit that, but the diameter of the shell of the B40 is more than 1mm smaller than that of the MX500 type.


----------



## Ronion

eridenti said:


> My Apple earbuds broke so I'm thinking about getting some cheaper earbuds that are better. How's the mic quality and fit of the Faaeal Iris 2.0? Can it be easily run directly connected to the laptop and Apple dongle to phone? I have small ears and the Apple earbuds fit well enough to me, though sometimes my ears start to hurt after a few hours of wearing them.


For comfort, you can’t beat that ear pod shape.  All of the Apple earbuds are very comfortable in truth.    The Yincrow X6 may be the only way to clearly/totally beat their SQ for cheaper, but I don’t think there’s a mic’ed version and it’s comfort is not even close to the Apple In my ear.  Everyone has different ears though.  The Faaeals are only of a similar overall SQ in my opinion.  Just different signatures.


----------



## digititus

Ronion said:


> For comfort, you can’t beat that ear pod shape.  All of the Apple earbuds are very comfortable in truth.    The Yincrow X6 may be the only way to clearly/totally beat their SQ for cheaper, but I don’t think there’s a mic’ed version and it’s comfort is not even close to the Apple In my ear.  Everyone has different ears though.  The Faaeals are only of a similar overall SQ in my opinion.  Just different signatures.


I have a mic'd version of the X6 FYI. Use it all the time for calls.


----------



## eridenti

I saw Yincrow X6 with mic being sold in AE, but not Shopee or Lazada unfortunately.


----------



## MelodyMood

nymz said:


> I only own this one with MMCX and a mic. It's nice and light for the price  can't comment on mic quality tho.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001265707752.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.45f74c4dmMAwdF


Is this Nice and Soft Cable? And not Stiff?



northernsound said:


> Thank you very much! Have you used it for calls at all?


----------



## MelodyMood

eridenti said:


> My Apple earbuds broke so I'm thinking about getting some cheaper earbuds that are better. How's the mic quality and fit of the Faaeal Iris 2.0? Can it be easily run directly connected to the laptop and Apple dongle to phone? I have small ears and the Apple earbuds fit well enough to me, though sometimes my ears start to hurt after a few hours of wearing them.


Do you know if any place where we can buy Apple Earbuds (the old flat ones) with Mic? They Sound Warm and Good. I have one but no Mic and I do not know how to Recable otherwise I have 4-5 Earbuds to actually do that :|


----------



## MelodyMood

eridenti said:


> Oh I see, that's a shame. Looks like the one legit shop that sells the NiceHCK B40 on Shopee is out of stock though. I would buy from AE but the shipping fee is way more expensive than the items themselves. 😅


Don't buy B40. I have one (misplaced somewhere within home now though) and it is not good. Very flat and thin sounding. Go for Iris 1.0 with Mic. That is good.


----------



## eridenti (Aug 29, 2021)

MelodyMood said:


> Do you know if any place where we can buy Apple Earbuds (the old flat ones) with Mic? They Sound Warm and Good. I have one but no Mic and I do not know how to Recable otherwise I have 4-5 Earbuds to actually do that :|


I’m not sure in Shopee or Lazada since there are a lot of fakes (judging from the cheaper price). You can buy them from the official Apple website though as far as I know.


MelodyMood said:


> Don't buy B40. I have one (misplaced somewhere within home now though) and it is not good. Very flat and thin sounding. Go for Iris 1.0 with Mic. That is good.


Oh I see. I still need to be sure if it’ll fit my ears though. 😅

I saw this local brand, but I’m pretty sure I saw those wooden shells being sold in a Chinese store in Shopee too. Asked them about the size and hopefully they’ll reply.
https://shopee.ph/product/56259020/6739968483?smtt=0.306561768-1630283292.9

Edit: They said it’s as big as a Philippine 10 centavo coin.


----------



## MelodyMood

eridenti said:


> I’m not sure in Shopee or Lazada since there are a lot of fakes (judging from the cheaper price). You can buy them from the official Apple website though as far as I know.


They are not available on Apple Site anymore. I am talking about these:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2823624...MIpabbsMXX8gIV75NmAh3-7wTyEAQYByABEgIKy_D_BwE




eridenti said:


> Oh I see. I still need to be sure if it’ll fit my ears though. 😅
> 
> I saw this local brand, but I’m pretty sure I saw those wooden shells being sold in a Chinese store in Shopee too. Asked them about the size and hopefully they’ll reply.
> https://shopee.ph/product/56259020/6739968483?smtt=0.306561768-1630283292.9
> ...


They should fit. The shell is not too big so should be fine.


----------



## eridenti

MelodyMood said:


> They are not available on Apple Site anymore. I am talking about these:
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2823624...MIpabbsMXX8gIV75NmAh3-7wTyEAQYByABEgIKy_D_BwE
> 
> 
> ...


Oh I thought you were talking about this one. The good enough fit I was talking about was for this.
https://www.apple.com/ph/shop/product/MNHF2FE/A/earpods-with-35-mm-headphone-plug

I also saw this recabled Vido.
https://shopee.ph/product/110850124/5251539941?smtt=0.306561768-1630291472.9
The Faaeal Iris
https://shopee.ph/product/43253829/2379606280?smtt=0.306561768-1630291583.9
And the local shop I mentioned before recommended this for small ears.
https://shopee.ph/product/56259020/5245356960?smtt=0.306561768-1630291665.9

Options, options. 😆


----------



## MelodyMood

eridenti said:


> Oh I thought you were talking about this one. The good enough fit I was talking about was for this.
> https://www.apple.com/ph/shop/product/MNHF2FE/A/earpods-with-35-mm-headphone-plug


No. These are very uncomfortable. I tried cpl of times but cannot wear them for even 10 min. It start paining like hell in the ear. Not sure who suggested this kind of design and how Apple decided to make them too.



eridenti said:


> I also saw this recabled Vido.
> https://shopee.ph/product/110850124/5251539941?smtt=0.306561768-1630291472.9


They look nice. But not sure if they can send it to Australia. I doubt though. 


eridenti said:


> The Faaeal Iris
> https://shopee.ph/product/43253829/2379606280?smtt=0.306561768-1630291583.9


Yes. This is the one. They are good.


eridenti said:


> And the local shop I mentioned before recommended this for small ears.
> https://shopee.ph/product/56259020/5245356960?smtt=0.306561768-1630291665.9
> 
> Options, options. 😆


Not sure but looks like B40. NICEHCK B40 is not good that I can confirm as I got that in Mystery Gift Pack and it was total waste of $15..


----------



## eridenti

MelodyMood said:


> No. These are very uncomfortable. I tried cpl of times but cannot wear them for even 10 min. It start paining like hell in the ear. Not sure who suggested this kind of design and how Apple decided to make them too.


Are your ears small? Those fit me alright, though sometimes my ears do start to hurt but not that soon.


MelodyMood said:


> They look nice. But not sure if they can send it to Australia. I doubt though.


If they could, it might be too expensive unfortunately. In terms of sound quality, do you prefer the Vido or Faaeal Iris 1.0?


MelodyMood said:


> Yes. This is the one. They are good.


I will keep that in mind. I saw that its measurements are "Cavity diameter: 17mm (unit diameter: 15.4mm)". Does anyone have measurements for the Apple Earpods that I linked previously?


----------



## MelodyMood

eridenti said:


> Are your ears small? Those fit me alright, though sometimes my ears do start to hurt but not that soon.


Not Small but shape of Earpods are very uncomfortable. Cannot even wear them for 10-15 min. Otherwise I use Monk Plus, TP16 and other MX500 Shells easily without any issue for hours.


eridenti said:


> If they could, it might be too expensive unfortunately. In terms of sound quality, do you prefer the Vido or Faaeal Iris 1.0?


I had Vido long ago but broken. Iris 1.0 is much better than Vido. Vido hardly have any details and it's all Warm and Bass only it feels. 


eridenti said:


> I will keep that in mind. I saw that its measurements are "Cavity diameter: 17mm (unit diameter: 15.4mm)". Does anyone have measurements for the Apple Earpods that I linked previously?


15.4mm or so is fine.


----------



## eridenti

I noticed that Iris 2.0 and 1.0 have the same unit diameter. Wouldn't that mean they might be both too big for my ears?
https://shopee.ph/FAAEAL-IRIS-2.0-32ohm-Flat-Head-Earphone-Bass-Mic-Earbuds-i.43253829.1810548214


----------



## jogawag

eridenti said:


> I noticed that Iris 2.0 and 1.0 have the same unit diameter. Wouldn't that mean they might be both too big for my ears?
> https://shopee.ph/FAAEAL-IRIS-2.0-32ohm-Flat-Head-Earphone-Bass-Mic-Earbuds-i.43253829.1810548214


Most of the cheaper earbuds shells are MX500 type with 16.7mm diameter.


----------



## nymz

MelodyMood said:


> Is this Nice and Soft Cable? And not Stiff?



Yeah it's a nice cable for 8usb. Very thin, great to use on the go. Stiffness average I think.


----------



## dissociativity (Aug 30, 2021)

I actually really like the B40 with a decent source (Fiio X3 II sounds far better than a standard snapdragon phone)
picks up a lot more stage and detail, signature is the opposite of fatiguing, bass doesn't give me headaches, nor does treble get tiring, great for watching youtube videos, movies, audiobooks, podcasts, while some may shine in intensity vs others, I think these are better for longer listening to less forgiving media that often has poor recordings or jarring un-evenness in sound mastering.


----------



## eridenti

I bought the earbuds from the local shop, hopefully they're small enough to fit my ears. I really just needed a pair of earbuds for the mic anyway, since talking with an IEM feels weird to me. If it sounds pretty good then it's just a bonus.  I don't own any amps or media player so I'm either just directly connecting to my laptop or my phone via Apple dongle.


----------



## zeinharis

Man this ME80 is awesome!. Listening to this songs with them is a blessing!. The timbre, soundstage, and layering is really good 👍











I'm using the ME80 without the foam BTW.


----------



## fonkepala

zeinharis said:


> Man this ME80 is awesome!. Listening to this songs with them is a blessing!. The timbre, soundstage, and layering is really good 👍
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great choice of music. May I know where you bought the ME80 from? I thought I read reports pages back that said they're discontinued.


----------



## zeinharis

fonkepala said:


> Great choice of music. May I know where you bought the ME80 from? I thought I read reports pages back that said they're discontinued.



Thanks!. Yeah they are discontinued, but a local seller here in Indonesia still have them (now it is sold out), I bought it around 12 USD.


----------



## RikudouGoku

zeinharis said:


> Thanks!. Yeah they are discontinued, but a local seller here in Indonesia still have them (now it is sold out), I bought it around 12 USD.


Old stock huh? Surprised the price is still that low.

(actually...isnt that cheaper than MSRP? Which I believe was around 20 usd?)


----------



## zeinharis

RikudouGoku said:


> Old stock huh? Surprised the price is still that low.
> 
> (actually...isnt that cheaper than MSRP? Which I believe was around 20 usd?)


Probably, cause the box is prety banged up, but the earbuds itself is safe, I don't see any physical damage on them, and they sounded really good. Definitly a keeper, especially now they are discontinued


----------



## fonkepala

RikudouGoku said:


> Old stock huh? Surprised the price is still that low.
> 
> (actually...isnt that cheaper than MSRP? Which I believe was around 20 usd?)


Yup. IIRC, bought mine for around the equivalent of USD19.


----------



## fonkepala

zeinharis said:


> Probably, cause the box is prety banged up, but the earbuds itself is safe, I don't see any physical damage on them, and they sounded really good. Definitly a keeper, especially now they are discontinued


Enjoy! The ME80 was, and probably still is, a standout in its price bracket.


----------



## RikudouGoku

fonkepala said:


> Yup. IIRC, bought mine for around the equivalent of USD19.


I believe I paid the same....



zeinharis said:


> Probably, cause the box is prety banged up, but the earbuds itself is safe, I don't see any physical damage on them, and they sounded really good. Definitly a keeper, especially now they are discontinued


You are damn lucky.

If I were you, I might have bought a few more and sell them here for more since they are discontinued lol.


----------



## zeinharis

fonkepala said:


> Enjoy! The ME80 was, and probably still is, a standout in its price bracket.



Will do, thank you!.


----------



## zeinharis

RikudouGoku said:


> I believe I paid the same....
> 
> 
> You are damn lucky.
> ...


I wish I could, but apparently the seller is running out of stock lol


----------



## jeejack

MelodyMood said:


> I had Vido long ago but broken. Iris 1.0 is much better than Vido. Vido hardly have any details and it's all Warm and Bass only it feels.
> 
> 15.4mm or so is fine.



Now with airy mode Vido is unbeatable at the price paid. Good details and no longer so warm 😉


----------



## MelodyMood

nymz said:


> Yeah it's a nice cable for 8usb. Very thin, great to use on the go. Stiffness average I think.


Ok. Then I may order if I order M0. Still not sure of ordering M0 due to high price and no clarity on sound signature. Especially if it is Warm with deep bass and little sub-bass but great details


----------



## Chessnaudio

Does anyone have impressions of the 7hz Beatles? After hearing about the 7hz brand because of the Timeless planar iem, I am curious


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Chessnaudio said:


> Does anyone have impressions of the 7hz Beatles?


... don't buy it


----------



## KutuzovGambit (Sep 1, 2021)

Been listening to the ISN Rambo II. Sounds eerily similar to the HD58X (full foams) or HD6XX (donuts) in earbud form. Quite pleased with them, but I have some much cheaper earbuds incoming and I’m not sure how well the Rambo II will be able to acquit itself for the substantial price difference. Time will tell.


----------



## Ronion (Sep 1, 2021)

The M0 with the 150 Ohm driver is as close to perfect as I have heard from a Bud so far.


MelodyMood said:


> Ok. Then I may order if I order M0. Still not sure of ordering M0 due to high price and no clarity on sound signature. Especially if it is Warm with deep bass and little sub-bass but great details


I'm 99% sure that if you'd buy the M0 with the 150 Ohm driver, you'd be blown away.


----------



## Cynical L

Well my m0 + 40 ohm drivers arrived today and 


Spoiler: faults











The connector look like it is jammed with something metal and trying to plug it in damaged the drivers. Very sad, been looking forward to these but support is sending me a new lot for a dollar no more questions so I guess that is ok. Anyone know if there is anyway to salvage something from these? Cutting off the connector and soldering a different driver in?


----------



## Ronion

Wow does that stink.  I'm betting @furyossa could give you some great ideas.


----------



## furyossa (Sep 1, 2021)

Cynical L said:


> Well my m0 + 40 ohm drivers arrived today and
> 
> 
> Spoiler: faults
> ...


You already figured it out yourself. With that mod you can use any DIY 15.4mm driver. This can be an excellent idea, buy two pairs of M0 shells, one for smabat drivers and the other for DIY drivers.


----------



## fonkepala

Ronion said:


> The M0 with the 150 Ohm driver is as close to perfect as I have heard from a Bud so far.


I'm assuming you haven't received your Blurs yet


----------



## h0las

Hi! I have been looking for earbuds for fast and drive music like pop-punk, post-hardcore etc
I have ibasso dx120 and ve monk+ and it's not bad in common for me but I want more fast and more drive clear sound with wide soundstage without a lot of bass! I like fast guitar sound and vocal.
I have alredy ordered the next earbuds: KBEAR Stellar, Vido red, YINCROW X6, Qian25. I'll try to test these earbuds with my music but may be I missed something? Any other good earbuds for my needs? Thanks for your advices


----------



## shenshen

h0las said:


> Hi! I have been looking for earbuds for fast and drive music like pop-punk, post-hardcore etc
> I have ibasso dx120 and ve monk+ and it's not bad in common for me but I want more fast and more drive clear sound with wide soundstage without a lot of bass! I like fast guitar sound and vocal.
> I have alredy ordered the next earbuds: KBEAR Stellar, Vido red, YINCROW X6, Qian25. I'll try to test these earbuds with my music but may be I missed something? Any other good earbuds for my needs? Thanks for your advices


I think you should wait to try the earbuds you already ordered, it will help inform your preferences and in turn help us with recommending you.


----------



## Ronion

fonkepala said:


> I'm assuming you haven't received your Blurs yet


Correct!  But they are getting closer….


----------



## higherdohr31

Hey I’m new to hifi earbuds, and I’m looking for some recommendations on what to possibly purchase as my first pair, but I have sort of an odd request. I would really prefer a pair of earbuds that either sound good or are tuned to be used WITHOUT foam tips. I know this probably narrows my options quite a bit but it’s kind of a deal breaker for me. I just really dislike the idea of foam in my ear. My budget is $35 and flexible within reason. As far as sound signature, I’m looking for slightly warm, but generally neutral and definitely not sibilant. I listen to mostly hip hop and alternative if that’s worth anything. I’d appreciate something comfortable and I would be driving them off my phone. Again, I know this might be a stretch to request, but if anyone can give any suggestions I would greatly appreciate it.


----------



## Ronion

Ronion said:


> The M0 with the 150 Ohm driver is as close to perfect as I have heard from a Bud so far.
> 
> I'm 99% sure that if you'd buy the M0 with the 150 Ohm driver, you'd be blown away.


Scratch that: the M2s Pro shell is a step up—for my personal preference.  The M0 shell just works really well with the Little Bear amp no matter the driver.   The M2s Pro shell adds weight and soundstage without the amp.  It may be a situation like the Zen lite—it requires a brighter source to sound its best and the tube amp will muffle it.  I’ll try it tonight just to see.


----------



## forestitalia

I just got Nameless, they are so good. Really, there are better earbud than this?


----------



## nymz

forestitalia said:


> I just got Nameless, they are so good. Really, there are better earbud than this?



Oh boy, sit tight and grab your wallet. Welcome to the big rabbit hole!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 2, 2021)

higherdohr31 said:


> Hey I’m new to hifi earbuds, and I’m looking for some recommendations on what to possibly purchase as my first pair, but I have sort of an odd request. I would really prefer a pair of earbuds that either sound good or are tuned to be used WITHOUT foam tips. I know this probably narrows my options quite a bit but it’s kind of a deal breaker for me. I just really dislike the idea of foam in my ear. My budget is $35 and flexible within reason. As far as sound signature, I’m looking for slightly warm, but generally neutral and definitely not sibilant. I listen to mostly hip hop and alternative if that’s worth anything. I’d appreciate something comfortable and I would be driving them off my phone. Again, I know this might be a stretch to request, but if anyone can give any suggestions I would greatly appreciate it.


Just want to make sure you are in the right thread as this is for earbuds not IEMs. Earbuds are not inserted into the ear canal and thus do not use tips but rather cushions, covers, or pads typically made out of sponge foam sometimes silicon.

When asking for a flathead-earbud recommendation the following data is extremely helpful:

_*source* *smartphone*_
_*preferred connection 3.5mm?; mic/no mic?*_
_*listening level & time* (volume, and for how long?)_
_*listening environment* *mobile?*_
_*preferred sound signature* *warm & smooth - neutral*_
_*preferred genre* *hip hop; alternative*_
_*preferred shell type* (depends on your ears and personal comfort; please see *here*)_
_*preferred brand* (only applicable if asking for a model recommendation within a single brand)_
_*price range **~USD $35*_
_*special request or need no foams/cushions; seeking comfort; not bright or sibilant*_


----------



## tendou

Ronion said:


> Correct!  But they are getting closer….


What you're comparing them with?


----------



## uneri (Sep 22, 2021)

‎


----------



## forestitalia

nymz said:


> Oh boy, sit tight and grab your wallet. Welcome to the big rabbit hole!


Too late!!  🎣


----------



## digititus

uneri said:


> Received my Bell-Ti Plus from the recent AE sale
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


They look fantastic. Enjoy!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

uneri said:


> Received my Bell-Ti Plus from the recent AE sale
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Did they restart the number at a single digit (1 out of 1000) or did they continue from where they left off after the last 2018 Bell-Ti 32/120Ω so start at a high three digit number?


----------



## uneri (Sep 17, 2021)

‎


----------



## higherdohr31

WoodyLuvr said:


> Just want to make sure you are in the right thread as this is for earbuds not IEMs. Earbuds are not inserted into the ear canal and thus do not use tips but rather cushions, covers, or pads typically made out of sponge foam sometimes silicon.
> 
> When asking for a flathead-earbud recommendation the following data is extremely helpful:
> 
> ...


Yes, apologies if I was unclear. I am looking for a flathead-earbud not an IEM. To fill in the gaps:

-  preferred connection: 3.5mm; mic would be nice but not a requirement
-  listening level & time: moderate to loud volume (I typically listen any where from 40%-80% volume, usually about 70% with earpods driving off iPhone 7 if that helps) Listening time usually no longer than 1 hour 30 min. In rare incidences maybe 3 hours or so for a car ride. I would also use these with a laptop so could be up to 5 hours surfing web, watching videos or talking with friend.
-  listening environment: mobile and at home use
-  preferred shell type: my ears are probably moderately sized, maybe a little on the smaller side. Definitely don’t have big ears. If that helps.

Again any recommendation would be great.


----------



## Nool

higherdohr31 said:


> Yes, apologies if I was unclear. I am looking for a flathead-earbud not an IEM. To fill in the gaps:
> 
> -  preferred connection: 3.5mm; mic would be nice but not a requirement
> -  listening level & time: moderate to loud volume (I typically listen any where from 40%-80% volume, usually about 70% with earpods driving off iPhone 7 if that helps) Listening time usually no longer than 1 hour 30 min. In rare incidences maybe 3 hours or so for a car ride. I would also use these with a laptop so could be up to 5 hours surfing web, watching videos or talking with friend.
> ...


you already have apple earpods, or airpods? the airpods are pretty good, easily the best tuned buds out of everything in my signature. they're more resolving than the yincrow rw9/x6, but the yincrows have more audible bass.

Id buy the yincrow rw9, same as the X6 but with a more warm- neutral tuning, whereas the x6 is just warm. rw9 has better tuned, tighter bass imo. timbre and resolution is pretty much the same for both.

also, try putting foams on your earpods, it'll help bring out the bass.

here's a list of buds @MRSallee reviewed, best to worst, as well as a frequency response of the x6/rw9 by @Sam L . honestly earbuds just aren't as good as iems/headphones, I'd just get a pair of tws buds and be happy with the convenience and stick with iems for high-fidelity listening. I'm usually using the airpods, there's just not much difference between them and my other buds to really be bothered. I'm looking at buying the soundpeats trueair2 and fiil cc2, if those beat the airpods I'll just use those and be done with earbuds.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Nool said:


> you already have apple earpods, or airpods? the airpods are pretty good, easily the best tuned buds out of everything in my signature. they're more resolving than the yincrow rw9/x6, but the yincrows have more audible bass.
> 
> Id buy the yincrow rw9, same as the X6 but with a more warm- neutral tuning, whereas the x6 is just warm. rw9 has better tuned, tighter bass imo. timbre and resolution is pretty much the same for both.
> 
> ...


IMO; the RW-9 is more V-shaped, bass is a trade-off of quantity/quality with the X6 being the one with higher quality. I much prefer the X6 over the RW-9, regardless of the price. 


And earbuds vs iems/headphones depends very much on your library. Sure, if you ONLY listen to music with heavy sub-bass, I dont see many reasons to go for buds. But with more acoustic/vocal, classical music? It is the buds that are dominating. 

Also, the LBBS eats the Oxygen for breakfast while the Chaconne is outclassing the Oxygen hard.


----------



## fonkepala

forestitalia said:


> I just got Nameless, they are so good. Really, there are better earbud than this?


I remember being very impressed by the Nameless when it 1st came out as well. Awesome buds especially for the price. Enjoy yours!


----------



## fonkepala

RikudouGoku said:


> IMO; the RW-9 is more V-shaped, bass is a trade-off of quantity/quality with the X6 being the one with higher quality. I much prefer the X6 over the RW-9, regardless of the price.
> 
> 
> And earbuds vs iems/headphones depends very much on your library. Sure, if you ONLY listen to music with heavy sub-bass, I dont see many reasons to go for buds. But with more acoustic/vocal, classical music? It is the buds that are dominating.
> ...


LBBs eats the O2 for breakfast with regards to everything? Or just acoustic, vocal & classical music?


----------



## RikudouGoku

fonkepala said:


> LBBs eats the O2 for breakfast with regards to everything? Or just acoustic, vocal & classical music?


Well, the only aspect the O2 is better in, is the bass. (and if you want bass I wouldnt rec the O2 to begin with...)


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 2, 2021)

Nool said:


> ...*honestly earbuds just aren't as good as iems/headphones*, I'd just get a pair of tws buds and be happy with the convenience and stick with iems for high-fidelity listening. I'm usually using the airpods, there's just not much difference between them and my other buds to really be bothered. I'm looking at buying the soundpeats trueair2 and fiil cc2, if those beat the airpods I'll just use those and be done with earbuds.


Like comparing apples and oranges really. Respectfully though, this is an earbud thread so we are a bit more prone to earbuds and are biased that way 


RikudouGoku said:


> And earbuds vs iems/headphones depends very much on your library. Sure, if you ONLY listen to music with heavy sub-bass, I dont see many reasons to go for buds. But with more acoustic/vocal, classical music? It is the buds that are dominating.
> 
> Also, the LBBS eats the Oxygen for breakfast while the Chaconne is outclassing the Oxygen hard.


Concur! There are many things that earbuds do well, very well.


----------



## FranQL

Nool said:


> honestly earbuds just aren't as good as iems/headphones, I'd just get a pair of tws buds and be happy with the convenience and stick with iems for high-fidelity listening




I do not enter into a debate, opinions are like asses, each person has their own

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16131288


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> more prone to earbuds and are biased that way


Pretty sure my bias leans towards iems, considering I have 86 iems and "only" 30 buds. Along with my own tonal preferences that is leaning towards a lot of sub-bass, which iems does do better.

I will still say that buds are better than iems for certain genres and vice-versa.


----------



## zeinharis

WoodyLuvr said:


> Like comparing apples and oranges really. Respectfully though, this is an earbud thread so we are a bit more prone to earbuds and are biased that way
> 
> Concur! There are many things that earbuds do well, very well.


+1 on Airy Soundstage and Fast Transient Response, especially on this track.. IMHO


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> Pretty sure my bias leans towards iems, considering I have 86 iems and "only" 30 buds.


We don't believe you good sir. We all know that you are a "closet earbud lover" in reality! Hence the reason why you hang out with us dorks on this thread!


----------



## forestitalia

fonkepala said:


> I remember being very impressed by the Nameless when it 1st came out as well. Awesome buds especially for the price. Enjoy yours!


Thanks. Now are you still listening earbud?


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> We don't believe you good sir. We all know that you are a "closet earbud lover" in reality! Hence the reason why you hang out with us dorks on this thread!





"Speaking of buds, today I received LBBS.
I just had a few minutes with them, to check that everything is alright. Well, everything is mega, except the lack of a case.
They fit me great, straight or over the ear. So anybody having problems with MMX500 shells falling out of their ears, like I have, should be just fine with LBBS.
I wear them over-ear with the hooks provided, the bud itself gently pushed forward at the entry of my ear canal. Semi in-ear you could say, but very comfortable.
Early impressions it sounds like listening to high quality speakers in your room. I don’t think I will need as huge a bass shelf as Riku’s EQ, maybe because of my “semi in-ear” wear.
Very impressive first contact.
Thanks a lot for the recommendation @Rikudou_Goku "

Another one that likes the LBBS.


----------



## KutuzovGambit

RikudouGoku said:


> "Speaking of buds, today I received LBBS.
> I just had a few minutes with them, to check that everything is alright. Well, everything is mega, except the lack of a case.
> They fit me great, straight or over the ear. So anybody having problems with MMX500 shells falling out of their ears, like I have, should be just fine with LBBS.
> I wear them over-ear with the hooks provided, the bud itself gently pushed forward at the entry of my ear canal. Semi in-ear you could say, but very comfortable.
> ...


Very anxious to receive my set…


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 3, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Pretty sure my bias leans towards iems, considering I have 86 iems and* "only" 30 buds.*





WoodyLuvr said:


> We don't believe you good sir. We all know that you are a "closet earbud lover" in reality! Hence the reason why you hang out with us dorks on this thread!


Another aside: *"only 30 buds."* is not a very strong argument as I have only four (4) earbuds total now plus a pair of SENN HD650 headphones packed away again.

My wife is still flat out refusing to hand over my Turandots and my daughter feigns dumb when I ask her about the B&O H6 headphones and JVC HA-FX750 Woody IEMs that she swiped from me.

Strange to think that I was at thirty or so earbuds just a few months back and before that in October 2020 when I started to more seriously minimalize my earbud stash I had nearly three hundred earbuds that I had collected since July 2018.


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Another aside: *"only 30 buds."* is not a very strong argument as I have only four (4) earbuds total now plus a pair of SENN HD650 headphones packed away again.
> 
> My wife is still flat our refusing to hand over my Turandots and my daughter feigns dumb when I ask her about the B&O H6 headphones and JVC HA-FX750 Woody IEMs that she swiped from me.
> 
> Strange to think that I was at thirty or so earbuds just a few months back and before I started to minimalize before October 2020 I had nearly three hundred earbuds that I had collected since July 2018.


300!!!

Damn, organizing all that must have been a big pain...


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> 300!!!
> 
> Damn, organizing all that must have been a big pain...


Not as bad as all the headphones and gear I had. IEMs and earbuds were quite easy to organize and store away in clear plastic compartmentalized nut & bolt boxes.


----------



## KutuzovGambit

WoodyLuvr said:


> Another aside: *"only 30 buds."* is not a very strong argument as I have only four (4) earbuds total now plus a pair of SENN HD650 headphones packed away again.
> 
> My wife is still flat our refusing to hand over my Turandots and my daughter feigns dumb when I ask her about the B&O H6 headphones and JVC HA-FX750 Woody IEMs that she swiped from me.
> 
> Strange to think that I was at thirty or so earbuds just a few months back and before that in October 2020 when I started to more seriously minimalize my earbud stash I had nearly three hundred earbuds that I had collected since July 2018.


Minimalism is very difficult in this hobby, props to you good sir!


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> "Speaking of buds, today I received LBBS.
> I just had a few minutes with them, to check that everything is alright. Well, everything is mega, except the lack of a case.
> They fit me great, straight or over the ear. So anybody having problems with MMX500 shells falling out of their ears, like I have, should be just fine with LBBS.
> I wear them over-ear with the hooks provided, the bud itself gently pushed forward at the entry of my ear canal. Semi in-ear you could say, but very comfortable.
> ...


I think that I have a solution for you  You can wear this MX500 version over-ear. This is my LCP (120Ω) build.





Say hello to "black minion" buds


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> I think that I have a solution for you  You can wear this MX500 version over-ear. This is my LCP (120Ω) build.
> 
> 
> 
> Say hello to "black minion" buds


Buds dont really work over ear for me. Either the fit is just bad or the sound is a lot better wearing it down.


----------



## furyossa (Sep 2, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Buds dont really work over ear for me. Either the fit is just bad or the sound is a lot better wearing it down.


By wearing it over-ear, you will have better seal and that's why you will get better low end. Of course long stem buds is not easy to wear this way but with short stem, they are very comfortable


----------



## Ronion

tendou said:


> What you're comparing them with?


That post is just about shipping—they are getting closer to my home.


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> By wearing it over-ear, you will have better seal and that's why you will get better low end. Of course long stem buds is not easy to wear this way but with short stem, they are very comfortable


Cant fit them over ear. And wearing it diagonally works great for me.


----------



## chinmie

WoodyLuvr said:


> Another aside: *"only 30 buds."* is not a very strong argument as I have only four (4) earbuds total now plus a pair of SENN HD650 headphones packed away again.
> 
> My wife is still flat our refusing to hand over my Turandots and my daughter feigns dumb when I ask her about the B&O H6 headphones and JVC HA-FX750 Woody IEMs that she swiped from me.
> 
> Strange to think that I was at thirty or so earbuds just a few months back and before that in October 2020 when I started to more seriously minimalize my earbud stash I had nearly three hundred earbuds that I had collected since July 2018.



I'm down to 3 headphones, 13 earbuds, and 15 IEMs now. feels pretty good at myself for maintaining that amount, I'm trying to downsize more but i still have a bit of attachment to them, and my gear drawer is still manageable, so no urgency. 

i do have to cull some of my TWS though, it feels i have too many of them decaying tech laying around



furyossa said:


> By wearing it over-ear, you will have better seal and that's why you will get better low end. Of course long stem buds is not easy to wear this way but with short stem, they are very comfortable



for my ears it work the opposite: over-ears would not seal as good as wearing them down, resulting in thinner overall sound presentation when over-ears

the only earbuds i have that doesn't change it's sound in both cable down and over-ears is the H185


----------



## eridenti (Sep 9, 2021)

I got the local earbuds I mentioned earlier, they're called Hiraya by TuneOut Audio/Koast Audio. They normally cost around 10 USD not including shipping fee, but got them for about 6.75 USD with free shipping thanks to the 8/30 sale and coins. Package was simple: just the case in bubble wrap, earbuds were inside a resealable plastic bag, foams in a separate bag.

*Build:*
Shells are light and feel plasticky. Left earbud fits alright, not as much on my right ear—they feel a bit loose. They don't hurt my ears. I can't use the foams since it makes the fit less secure on both ears. The plug was heavier than the rest of the earbuds. Chin slider barely works because it's too loose and just slides down easily. Cable is some kind of paracord fabric, thin, tangles easily, memory prone.

_(Earbuds were directly connected to my laptop. Listened through foobar2000, music files are 320kbps mp3, from Deezer)_

*Sound:*
As for sound, these seem V-shaped. Detail retrieval is average. I'm not good at describing what I hear lol please cut me some slack.

Dreams by Fleetwood Mac: cymbals sound pretty good, the instruments are quite strong compared to the vocals
Landslide by Fleetwood Mac: guitar doesn't sound natural, I can hear the nuances, but that's about it
Beauty & Essex by Free Nationals: still enjoyable, plenty of bass though lacking in the rumble I could feel on the Blon BL-03 which is understandable
Jungle by Tash Sultana: clapping doesn't sound natural, but there's an airy sound in general
Chop Suey! by System of a Down: wasn't a fun listen, cymbals were thin, piano wasn't clear
Saw You in a Dream by The Japanese House: sibilant, vocals had an airy quality to them that I like, but were a little too forward, chorus was especially shouty
No Fear No More by Madeon: airy backing vocals, fun listen overall
A Case of You by Joni Mitchell: guitar doesn't sound as good, the song didn't feel intimate
NFWMB by Hozier: nicely airy... echoey?
Be by Hozier: also airy/echoey, clap doesn't sound natural
Cosmic Love by Florence + the Machine: doesn't feel magical if that makes sense lol
Munich by The Fray: (seems to be poorly mixed) doesn't sound as detailed, cymbals are more recessed in the busiest parts, but it doesn't sound bad overall, bass is quite strong though

*Conclusion:*
For electronic music, these are pretty good, but not so much for rock. I think they're slightly better than Apple earpods, hopefully they won't break as easily. They're good value for the money, but won't be my go to for listening to music. I bought these for the mic anyway lol. I'd probably be more impressed if I didn't have the BL-03 yet. Although these are great at presenting airy-ness compared to the BL-03, I suppose that's the benefit of earbuds. BL-03 is better at presenting instruments especially when the song isn't busy. I would say the Blon BL-03 aren't a drastically huge upgrade compared to these though. Makes me wonder what neutral IEMs at a much higher price bracket sound like.

Edit: After listening more to these, I retract my statement about the BL-03 not being a drastically huge upgrade. The BL-03 are definitely a big upgrade to these, just for the timbre.


----------



## forestitalia (Sep 3, 2021)

I have Smabat now too, they cost lot more. I feel are different than Nameless, not really 'better' (however much comfortable to my ears)

Now, I want to avoid end with lots of earbuds in the draw, better move directly to Chaconne?
I listen little bit of everything,  but no electronic.


----------



## Ronion

My LBBs arrived today.  Fastest anything has arrived from AliExpress.  These are definitely nice and comfy Buds That sound great right out of the box.  my first impression is that I prefer the SMABAT M2s pro shell with the 150 Ohm driver, but I’ve mostly listened to rap and you can tell the treble is a bit smoother on the LBBs.  I haven’t tried EQing them at all, but these buds are for real and sound great.  Nothing annoying, but also don’t dazzle me.  I’m sure I would’ve been dazzled had I not had the SMABAT.  Time will tell though.  My first impression is never the final answer.


----------



## jogawag

forestitalia said:


> I have Smabat now too, they cost lot more. I feel are different than Nameless, not really 'better' (however much comfortable to my ears)
> 
> Now, I want to avoid end with lots of earbuds in the draw, better move directly to Chaconne?
> I listen little bit of everything,  but no electronic.


If you like the balanced sound of the MoonDrop Nameless, I would recommend K's LBBS over the Chaconne which has more treble characteristics.
If you like K's LBBS, then you can go for the more expensive Onmyoji or Bell-Ti Plus.


----------



## samandhi (Sep 3, 2021)

forestitalia said:


> I have Smabat now too, they cost lot more. I feel are different than Nameless, not really 'better' (however much comfortable to my ears)
> 
> Now, I want to avoid end with lots of earbuds in the draw, better move directly to Chaconne?
> I listen little bit of everything,  but no electronic.


If you are wanting the end game without having to collect too many buds along the way, I would go with the Chaconne or the Yincrow RW2000. Chaconne is better in almost every way, except where bass is concerned. Yincrow is such a fantastic all-rounder that I would recommend them for everything (including bassy music plus they are cheaper and have a replaceable cable). Matter of fact, I have a new leader in my stable (sort of). More like a tie(ish):

I have a new ranking for my buds (non EQ’ed) at this point as follows:


Moondrop Chaconne (actually tied with) Yincrow RW2000 - Chaconne for home and critical listening, RW2000 for out and about, and some critical listening.
DUNU Alpha 1 - Just lovely overall
Rose Maria II – The dual driver crossover tuning, just makes those different frequencies sort of disconnected, plus the 3k range is way up there (a lot). But these have the absolute widest soundstage ever, making them still a keeper. The refinement and technicalities on these are second to none. The tuning is my only issue with them. Luckily they take EQ well.
Smabat ST10S Gold – Overall these are good, but again with the 3K boost.
Smabat M2S Pro – Even more boosted in 3k than the ST10S Gold.
Apple Classic Earbuds 2nd generation – Generally a non fatiguing sound (Harmon minus the bass quantity).


My list after doing some EQ work on any/all that need them are:


Moondrop Chaconne – Becomes even better, nothing can touch these. They become as good as or better than $1k IEMs. ($300)
Yincrow RW2000 – These fall behind the Chaconne, but not by a ton. ($138)
DUNU Alpha 1 - Really, no EQ needed here (even though they are a bit hot in 3k area. ($40)
Smabat ST10S Gold – Man, these come close to the RW2000 after some EQ. ($100)
Rose Maria II – OMG these can literally be basshead buds with some EQ, which make them extremely fun. ($400)
Smabat M2S Pro – I do like these, I just don’t think they are as refined as the rest. ($60)
Apple Classic Earbuds 2nd generation – With some EQ these actually might be swapped with position 5 because of how wide the soundstage is on these. (Free with iPod Photo version)
My purchasing habits are that I tend to find and buy those "gems" that punch in at way more than their price might indicate. In this case (with earbuds), I actually didn't save much money, because I pretty much started at mid-tier and went up. But, compared to the cost of IEMs, in the same brackets, I feel justified in my purchases at this point.

Of those "gems" I was mentioning, in IEMs I have, and believe them all to be in that class:


iBasso IT07 ($1k)
DUNU DK2001 ($300)
TinHifi P1 ($160)
AudioSense T800 )$300)
Xioami Piston II (2 pairs) ($20)

The same goes for Headphones for me:


Hifiman HE400S (not the HE400SE) ($300)
Hifiman Deva (BT and Wired) ($300)
Sennheiser HD700 ($750)
Sennheiser Momentum (OG wired) ($300)
Sennheiser Momentum 2.0 (BT and wired) ($350)
Marshall Monitor ($250)
B&W P5 ($200)

TWS are as follows:


Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch ($150)
Nuarl N6 Pro ($99)
Hifiman TWS600 ($49)
Bose Soundsport Free ($200)

Matter of fact it even goes the same for DAPs for me:


Fiio X5 1st gen ($350)
Fiio X3 II ($250)
iBasso DX160 ($400)
iBasso DX300 ($1200)
I generally don't buy just so I can hear what it sounds like, and am never an early adopter (unless I really think they are for me). And I never sell my gear off. I have been lucky in that way. I don't feel that I have bought anything that I DON'T like, and won't ever listen to (except maybe some of my older headphones, such as the Bose AE2S, or something like that).

Edit: Edited with prices at the time of purchase for informational purposes.


----------



## RikudouGoku

1MORE EO320














1more E1008













Also got the RY4S 300 ohm mmcx and a hidizs bud

Massive thanks to @nymz for sending these out to me.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Hidizs (unnamed): Sounds like a more bloated and darker Monk Lite with zero technicalities and a “radio-like” sound. The cheap plastic is also stabbing me ears and feels like it should be worth a few cents or something….

Rank: F



Did Penon seriously send this as a “gift” to you @nymz  for buying the Tansio Mirai Land (600 usd iem)? Like what????



RY4S 300-ohm version:

V-shaped, with a somewhat peaky/unrefined treble. Recessed mids, bass is decent in quality at least but doesn’t have that much quantity. Timbre isn’t good and technicalities aren’t good either.



Rank: D-


----------



## nymz

RikudouGoku said:


> Did Penon seriously send this as a “gift” to you @nymz for buying the Tansio Mirai Land (600 usd iem)? Like what????



🤷🤷🤷🤷


----------



## RikudouGoku

1More E0320: Tuned to be used without foams (the included silicone hooks are great for fit and comfort). Well-tuned treble, airy and detailed without peaks. Mids are forward and very clean. Bass quantity is lower than usual though. Technicalities are good and timbre as well, bright neutral tonality.

Rank: B+



Although I get PSTSD flashbacks to my old Xiaomi Piston/hybrid iems from years ago, where the exact same Kevlar cable always died on me….



1More E1008: Same as the EO320, its tuned to be used without foams. It is tuned extremely similarly to the EO320, but with slightly more bass and a bit less treble, so it ends up sounding more neutral. The treble is airier here and technicalities are a bit better. But there isn’t a lot of piezo timbre in it, so to me it seems a bit pointless to have the piezo driver in it, because all it does is increase the air and improved technicalities a bit but at the cost of coherency and slightly worse timbre.



Rank: B+



In regards to the claims that this is similar to the LZ A7 iem, I completely disagree with it. And it is also completely different from 1More´s own H1707 headphones that also have a piezo driver.


----------



## chavez

RikudouGoku said:


> 1More E0320: Tuned to be used without foams (the included silicone hooks are great for fit and comfort). Well-tuned treble, airy and detailed without peaks. Mids are forward and very clean. Bass quantity is lower than usual though. Technicalities are good and timbre as well, bright neutral tonality.
> 
> Rank: B+
> 
> ...


Strange you didnt get the RY4S plus yet 🤔🤔🤔.( Regular 32Ohm version)


----------



## RikudouGoku

chavez said:


> Strange you didnt get the RY4S plus yet 🤔🤔🤔.( Regular 32Ohm version)


Were never interested tbh. And definitely not after the LBBS.


----------



## Ronion (Sep 4, 2021)

Comparing the LBBs today with the 150 Ohm SMABAT M2s pro, things are interesting.  THe LBBs are so well tuned that they don’t sound bad at any volume.  They remind Me of the Moondrop Aria.  They have a good amount of detail, but not extreme.  Better than 99% of the other buds out there however  They work well no matter the genre and no matter the volume.  The SMABAT have a more impressive sound at lowish volume—more, deeper bass, more higher treble, like a “loudness” button on an old school Technics receiver But better tuned.  Very enjoyable with electronic genres for buds.  At high volumes the 3kHz region gets too shouty, but that’s at levels that you shouldn’t have any sustained listening sessions anyway.  I’ve noticed it before but it was never very bothersome and in truth is not too bothersome now.  It’s just in direct comparison.  Both of them have huge soundstages or headstage as it’s often called.  The SMABAT has slightly larger headstage to my ear.  They remind me of the JVC FDX1 with the most treble damping filter installed.  The SMABAT definitely require more power to sound their best, but even with a small 1v output can get loud enough.  They just sound better with more power.  When I first tried the 150Ohm driver, it was too polite with the smaller output.  Now it seems fine in that situation, just better with more voltage.


----------



## emusic13

One of my best earbuds


----------



## LordZero (Sep 3, 2021)

emusic13 said:


> One of my best earbuds


What vido are those?


----------



## emusic13

LordZero said:


> What vido are those?


Its a custom tuned LCP driver I specifically requested in vido shell. Its so I can see who judges sound based on looks instead of using their ears


----------



## samandhi

emusic13 said:


> One of my best earbuds



Looking at that picture, you could easily put in some MMCX connenctors?! They look nice either way.


----------



## nymz

chavez said:


> Strange you didnt get the RY4S plus yet 🤔🤔🤔.( Regular 32Ohm version)



I sent him the 300ohm but kept the plus, you can wonder why 😂


----------



## emusic13

samandhi said:


> Looking at that picture, you could easily put in some MMCX connenctors?! They look nice either way.


Earbuds sound better without mmcx to me


----------



## artpiggo

Found this in facebook. Anyone knows what brand it is?

Is it from TForce audio?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

artpiggo said:


> Found this in facebook. Anyone knows what brand it is?
> 
> Is it from TForce audio?


Interesting. Doesn't look like TForce Audio branding though...


----------



## uneri (Sep 17, 2021)

‎


----------



## WoodyLuvr

uneri said:


> New mid-range release, *PD21*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting, any specs like impedance and sensitivity?


----------



## MelodyMood

jeejack said:


> Now with airy mode Vido is unbeatable at the price paid. Good details and no longer so warm 😉


Looks nice. Unfortunately I cannot recable it. No idea how to do.


Cynical L said:


> Well my m0 + 40 ohm drivers arrived today and
> 
> 
> Spoiler: faults
> ...


Did you get replacement? They are very expensive ones and I am even thinking should I order or not as no review or idea about the sound quality


----------



## Nool

samandhi said:


> If you are wanting the end game without having to collect too many buds along the way, I would go with the Chaconne or the Yincrow RW2000. Chaconne is better in almost every way, except where bass is concerned. Yincrow is such a fantastic all-rounder that I would recommend them for everything (including bassy music plus they are cheaper and have a replaceable cable). Matter of fact, I have a new leader in my stable (sort of). More like a tie(ish):
> 
> I have a new ranking for my buds (non EQ’ed) at this point as follows:
> 
> ...


Nice review, I'm curious if you were using those earbuds with full foams? That usually helps tame the overshoot in higher frequencies, as well as lifting up the bass. I'm still kinda tempted to pick up the rw2000.


----------



## Nool

RikudouGoku said:


> IMO; the RW-9 is more V-shaped, bass is a trade-off of quantity/quality with the X6 being the one with higher quality. I much prefer the X6 over the RW-9, regardless of the price.
> 
> 
> And earbuds vs iems/headphones depends very much on your library. Sure, if you ONLY listen to music with heavy sub-bass, I dont see many reasons to go for buds. But with more acoustic/vocal, classical music? It is the buds that are dominating.
> ...


Yeah that's why I specified "high fidelity". The mids on my BK2 are great, almost as good as my er2xr, and definitely better than my mh755 or tin t2. But even when listening to acoustic tracks there's still almost always some lower/higher frequencies, however minute, that buds just fail to properly capture. There's only so much a tiny open-air DD can do imo, without a seal there's a lot of pressure (sound) lost to the surrounding environment. Though I'm still interested in hearing some totl buds to see if I can change my mind about that.

Really didn't expect that comment to blow up, lol.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 4, 2021)

Nool said:


> Yeah that's why I specified "high fidelity". The mids on my BK2 are great, almost as good as my er2xr, and definitely better than my mh755 or tin t2. But even when listening to acoustic tracks there's still almost always some lower/higher frequencies, however minute, that buds just fail to properly capture. There's only so much a tiny open-air DD can do imo, without a seal there's a lot of pressure (sound) lost to the surrounding environment. Though I'm still interested in hearing some totl buds to see if I can change my mind about that.
> 
> Really didn't expect that comment to blow up, lol.


The poor soul hasn't heard a Bell-Ti, Blur, Chaconne, RW2000, or Turandot yet  Come closer. Closer. Yes, closer. Now look into the hole. Further. Further...


----------



## samandhi

Nool said:


> Nice review, I'm curious if you were using those earbuds with full foams? That usually helps tame the overshoot in higher frequencies, as well as lifting up the bass. I'm still kinda tempted to pick up the rw2000.


Thanks! Yes, I am using full foams on all of them. Keep in mind when I say boosted 3k, at lower volumes they sound mostly fine, but when you get some background noise, and you have to turn up the volume, that is where the ones with boosted 3k get too shouty to my ears. Also, keep in mind I am very sensitive to that FR. So where it might bother me, it might not effect you at all. The Chaconne, and the RW2000 are the only two of the ones I have (besides the cheapo Apple Earbud Classics) that do not have this boosted frequency to at least some point or another.


----------



## forestitalia

forestitalia said:


> I have Smabat now too, they cost lot more. I feel are different than Nameless, not really 'better' (however much comfortable to my ears)
> 
> Now, I want to avoid end with lots of earbuds in the draw, better move directly to Chaconne?........


I have to correct myself: from the Dap was not impressed, but with a proper amplifier Smabat are a lot better 
The bass now is another league, those a very good. But damn, how use them in mobility? Need to buy an AK Kann.


----------



## RikudouGoku

forestitalia said:


> I have to correct myself: from the Dap was not impressed, but with a proper amplifier Smabat are a lot better
> The bass now is another league, those a very good. But damn, how use them in mobility? Need to buy an AK Kann.


What dap do you have?


----------



## samandhi

forestitalia said:


> I have to correct myself: from the Dap was not impressed, but with a proper amplifier Smabat are a lot better
> The bass now is another league, those a very good. But damn, how use them in mobility? Need to buy an AK Kann.


As @RikudouGoku said, which DAP are you using? Also which Smabat pair do you have? If you have the 150 ohm, they will be a bit harder to drive, but any decent DAP should be able to drive them with some volume. To drive them properly is a different thing altogether. I guess, I am not sure how they sound with a DAP that doesn't put out enough power for them (not for volume but to drive them to their fullest) as I use the iBasso DX160, and the iBasso DX3300 to drive them out of the balanced connectors (6.6Vrms & 7.7Vrms respectively).

Also, if your DAP supports it, you could try running them from balanced connector. That tends to supply more power, and have a much quieter background.


----------



## forestitalia (Sep 4, 2021)

_As @RikudouGoku said,......as I use the iBasso DX160, and the iBasso DX3300 to drive them out of the balanced connectors (6.6Vrms & 7.7Vrms respectively)._

That is a very good output power.

The Smabat is the ST10S Black Gold, should be 150 ohm.  As player I use LG G8x alone or bluetooth with ES100 balanced output, never had lack of power issue before.


----------



## RikudouGoku

forestitalia said:


> _As @RikudouGoku said,......as I use the iBasso DX160, and the iBasso DX3300 to drive them out of the balanced connectors (6.6Vrms & 7.7Vrms respectively)._
> 
> That is a very good output power.
> 
> The Smabat is the ST10S Black Gold, should be 150 ohm.  As player I use LG G8x alone or bluetooth with ES100 balanced output, never had lack of power issue before.


If those 2 daps dont satisfy you, nothing in the portable world will.....unless you spend big bucks for something like the Ifi Diablo.






5Watts lol. More powerful than a lot of desktop amps (no idea how tbh).


----------



## KutuzovGambit

RikudouGoku said:


> If those 2 daps dont satisfy you, nothing in the portable world will.....unless you spend big bucks for something like the Ifi Diablo.
> 
> 
> 
> 5Watts lol. More powerful than a lot of desktop amps (no idea how tbh).


Probably via battery life of four minutes.


----------



## Ronion

forestitalia said:


> forestitalia said:
> 
> 
> > _As @RikudouGoku said,......as I use the iBasso DX160, and the iBasso DX3300 to drive them out of the balanced connectors (6.6Vrms & 7.7Vrms respectively)._
> ...


That should be a sweet bud as that’s the enclosure that driver is made for.  I don’t think the minor 3k issue is even present in that shell by looking at their graph.  I could certainly be wrong as the conditions of the graph are not clearly stated.  Nonetheless, so far that the best earbud driver I’ve heard.  I know there are better available, but that’s a nice bang for the buck.  My set do well off of my Qudelix when run balanced at 4v.  I’m going to try and balance its frequency response tonight.  It should be fun.


----------



## jrazmar

forestitalia said:


> _As @RikudouGoku said,......as I use the iBasso DX160, and the iBasso DX3300 to drive them out of the balanced connectors (6.6Vrms & 7.7Vrms respectively)._
> 
> That is a very good output power.
> 
> The Smabat is the ST10S Black Gold, should be 150 ohm.  As player I use LG G8x alone or bluetooth with ES100 balanced output, never had lack of power issue before.


For mobile use, I highly recommend the Ovidius B1. Pure raw power and nice sound for on-the-go setup. You can read from here to learn more: https://andyaudiovault.com/donglemadness/ovidius-b1-2/


----------



## Ronion (Sep 6, 2021)

Currently my 4 best buds are the 150ohm SMABAT M2s(40Ohm driver is Floating belly up), the VE Zen Lite, the LBBs, and the EA Earbuds and I was interested in doing a rap shootout Which is not where buds excel, but it is a genre I listen to often and I wanted to see what I should be placing in my ear for the purpose When I need to be able to hear my environment.  I listened at multiple volume levels through the Qudelix with the bass under 40Hz cut.  I mostly listened to Detroit rappers over a period of 4 hours.

The clear winner is the SMABAT.  It has the best bass by far, the clearest vocal, and the a more prominent/clearest treble, a great head stage, and just sounds bigger and more composed than the other 3.  None of them audibly struggled at any volume I’d ever listen to.

The next 3 are a mixed bag.  Well, they are all a mixed bag really, but SQ goes to the SMABAT.

The LBBs has the next clearest vocal, a bit less pronounced bass but good quality, and probably the best head stage overall (the SMABAT is similar in that regard). 

The Earbuds Anonymous have more bass than the LBBs that’s similarly deep (though slightly deeper), but the mid bass more creeps into the vocal more.  It has the second most elevated treble level, but tied for the smallest head stage.

THE EA and LBBs have similar clarity/quality in the bass, but the LBBs is closer to a “reference” tuning.

The VE Zen Lite have a warm, prominent, muddier bass that bleeds into the vocal more than the others while it simultaneously has the least extension.  It also has a head stage similar in size to the EA Earbuds.  The vocal isn’t always buried though (And buried is a harsh word for it), it depends on the rapper.  The treble is also the most recessed.  As far as rap goes, it handles the genre fairly well—as in it doesn’t distort at sane levels, but I prefer all the others.  It’s treble resolution seems to be roughly the same as the LBBs and the EA Earbuds but definitely lower in overall level.

The sound breakdown would look like this to my ear: SMABAT 150 Ohm driver in the M2s Pro shell>LBBs=(Roughly but I’d probably give the nod to the LBBs)EA Earbuds>VE Zen Lite.

Now for comfort it would look like this: VE Zen Lite (easily)>LBBs(definitely)>M2s Pro>EA Earbuds (by a lesser margin but still without a doubt).

Stability: same as comfort.

Ease of driving: LLBs(easily)>EA Earbuds(definitely)>SMABAT>Zen Lite(by a smaller amount)

build quality: SMABAT (but conversely perhaps the easiest to break due to the fact that everything can be modified by my monkey fingers)>Zen Lite(most durable build for sure)>EA Earbuds>LBBs(the shells are great but the strain relief, or rather the lack of, makes me feel like I’m going to break it)

cost: VE Zen Lite($70)>SMABAT($64)>LBBs($35)>EA Earbuds ($25)

Best looking: SMABAT(easily)>LBBs(definitely)>EA Earbuds>Zen Lite

EDIT: THIS IS IMPORTANT 

The Zen Lite listening session was done with some generic donut hole foams.  That does not characterize the buds well at all.  In fact these buds turn out to be every bit the sonic equals of the AE Earbuds and the LBBs.  Perhaps their superiors in fact.  I also wouldn’t use HeiGi foam on them.  Right now I have some fluffy donut foams on them and I don’t know the make.  There are rubber rings from VE that work really well with them as do shark fins, but these fluffy foam donuts have been the best overall for me so far.  I’ll update this when I figure out what these foams are for future reference of folks who may come across this comparison.


----------



## Dany1

For a TOTL Earbud, what other great options do we have in market besides Bell Onmyoji, Bell Ti Plus,  RW-2000 and Chaconne ?


----------



## Ronion

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3540#post-16259145


----------



## 1clearhead (Sep 5, 2021)

KokushiTsumo said:


> What's a X6 upgrade these days? Looking for more detail


Yincrow RW-9

Very airy and detailed! 

-Clear


----------



## uneri (Sep 17, 2021)

‎


----------



## WoodyLuvr

uneri said:


> A recent TOTL release that's still only available on Taobao it seems, *Simphonio Dragon 3+* (D3+)
> 
> True PK size shell, 120Ω, 118dB/mW


120Ω or 150Ω?


----------



## 1clearhead

RikudouGoku said:


> 1More E0320: Tuned to be used without foams (the included silicone hooks are great for fit and comfort). Well-tuned treble, airy and detailed without peaks. Mids are forward and very clean. Bass quantity is lower than usual though. Technicalities are good and timbre as well, bright neutral tonality.
> 
> Rank: B+
> 
> ...


Well? We can all agree to disagree, right?  

But, to me personally it has certain similarities to the LZ A7 which the piezo is not as overpowering as the older model, LZ A6. Details sound similar to me where it is not airy but dryer. So, I'm sure the piezo its doing the job it suppose to be doing...Just my 2 cents.

-Clear


----------



## uneri (Sep 17, 2021)

‎


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Good call . Thank you for the spec sheet. I corrected my lists.


----------



## numon (Sep 5, 2021)

hi
 i want to buy smabat m2s pro and   will buy driver but i want  technically best  driver.
is  super one driver better in details,soundstage wideness? i am no basshead so increase of  bass wont be choose reason
 thanks in advance


----------



## HombreCangrejo

numon said:


> hi
> i want to buy smabat m2s pro and   will buy driver but i want  technically best  driver.
> super one driver is better in details,soundstage wideness? i am no basshead so increase of  bass wont be choose reason
> thanks in advance



I'll almost surely receive mine tomorrow. I could tell you something about it later next week.


----------



## n00b

mine should be coming this week as well, i can compare to 40 ohm and golden 150 ohm. right now, golden driver is my go-to out of LBBS, Chaconne, X6 but I lean closer to basshead


----------



## Ronion

I have a super one driver on its way as well.  It should be here in the next couple days as it’s cleared customs.


----------



## HailToTheKing

Min2 said:


> Has anyone tried Astrotec Lyra Mini? They are on a smaller side like LBBs (14mm). Looks interesting.


Hi Min2. I just posted my review/impressions of the Lyra Mini here. I don't know what your reference earbud is but I am comparing it to the Lyra Classic.
Hope it helps.


----------



## Braekfast

My Yincrow X6 and LBBS arrived a couple of days ago, pretty dang fast by aliexpress standards. So far, the X6 is right up my alley. The low end is good, it's detailed enough, but it's also just fun and not fatiguing to listen to. Great when listening to background music when reading or listening to podcasts in bed. 
The LBBS seems strong as well. Definitely more detailed than the X6, but less bass/warmth I think? Stock out of the box it seems like it has better technicalities (I hope that's the term I'm looking for) but it's less fun to listen to. I haven't gotten around to getting @RikudouGoku 's EQ on wavelet yet though, I'm definitely looking forward to what effect that'll have. 

So yeah, pretty dang satisfied with my purchases so far


----------



## samandhi

numon said:


> hi
> i want to buy smabat m2s pro and   will buy driver but i want  technically best  driver.
> is  super one driver better in details,soundstage wideness? i am no basshead so increase of  bass wont be choose reason
> thanks in advance


First off, I don't think you really have to worry about getting ANY earbud that will be at "basshead" levels (unless you EQ them that way, though some DO have more bass than others, and the higher ohm drivers tend to lean towards more bass). So you have a huge pool to choose from if you aren't happy with whatever you land on.

I can't give a really clear answer to your question, only a vague response. @miserybeforethemusic got his Super One driver last week, and found that it sounds just about the same from the M2S Pro as it does from the M0 (though slightly different). He actually likes the Super One driver much better than the stock 40 ohm driver. Where the comparison stalls is that he doesn't have the 150 ohm driver to compare with. So, in the end his thoughts are that the Super One driver is definitely an upgrade to (at least) the 40 ohm driver. A quote from an email I recieved from him regarding the Super One driver:


> because I think they're perfect for our kinda stuff, especially when it comes to keeping the midrange weight that we usually associate with the _hard_ part of Hard Rock.


 And by our stuff, he's talking about prog rock, metal, hard rock, etc...

Oh, and also:


> If you do happen to get back on there, please give everybody my best wishes.


----------



## Ronion

‘Miss that guy around here.


----------



## Rary (Sep 5, 2021)

I was browsing Aliexpress looking for good deals when i stumbled upon this review in the M2s Pro drivers official page Link






To anyone that has recently bought a ST10s B/G 150ohm driver (Yellow dot), please check if you received the correct unit.
The driver underneath the connector should look like this:




This is a genuine ST10s B/G driver, it can come with red or blue rim.

The one in the picture above is a well known DIY Driver usually referred to as 150ohm Blue glue (Value 8-9$).




150ohm Blue glue is a great driver, don't get me wrong, but it sure isn't a ST10s B/G.

I don't want to get to immediate conclusions, they could have simply changed supplier (but i strongly doubt it).
If this is true, this is a plain scam and you should ask for a refund.


An explanation could be:
They run out of 150ohm B/G drivers due to high demand so they bought the first cheap 150ohm driver they could find and passed it off as ST10s drivers.
They also purged old reviews that showed true 150ohm B/G drivers.

I hope i'm wrong.


----------



## numon

n00b said:


> mine should be coming this week as well, i can compare to 40 ohm and golden 150 ohm. right now, golden driver is my go-to out of LBBS, Chaconne, X6 but I lean closer to basshead





Ronion said:


> I have a super one driver on its way as well.  It should be here in the next couple days as it’s cleared customs.





samandhi said:


> First off, I don't think you really have to worry about getting ANY earbud that will be at "basshead" levels (unless you EQ them that way, though some DO have more bass than others, and the higher ohm drivers tend to lean towards more bass). So you have a huge pool to choose from if you aren't happy with whatever you land on.
> 
> I can't give a really clear answer to your question, only a vague response. @miserybeforethemusic got his Super One driver last week, and found that it sounds just about the same from the M2S Pro as it does from the M0 (though slightly different). He actually likes the Super One driver much better than the stock


 
thanks
  i will buy  in 10 days  so i  will be waiting  comments about drivers.


----------



## Ronion

Well, everything I just said after hours of listening last night about the Zen Lite only applies to it with donut foams.  I tried them today with no foams and they are totally different animals…. No longer overly warm or muffled.  No mud at all in the mid bass, no vocal leakage, no small soundstage, etc…. I’m really shocked at how radically different these sound.  Right now they are a little boxy, but the bass is tight, the soundstage is large, and I’ve got a feeling I can tune these to perfection.  I’ll be working on that tonight.


----------



## 40760

Ronion said:


> Well, everything I just said after hours of listening last night about the Zen Lite only applies to it with donut foams.  I tried them today with no foams and they are totally different animals…. No longer overly warm or muffled.  No mud at all in the mid bass, no vocal leakage, no small soundstage, etc…. I’m really shocked at how radically different these sound.  Right now they are a little boxy, but the bass is tight, the soundstage is large, and I’ve got a feeling I can tune these to perfection.  I’ll be working on that tonight.



Not sure bout the Zen Lite, but the Zen 2.0 is designed to be used without foams.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Well, everything I just said after hours of listening last night about the Zen Lite only applies to it with donut foams.  I tried them today with no foams and they are totally different animals…. No longer overly warm or muffled.  No mud at all in the mid bass, no vocal leakage, no small soundstage, etc…. I’m really shocked at how radically different these sound.  Right now they are a little boxy, but the bass is tight, the soundstage is large, and I’ve got a feeling I can tune these to perfection.  I’ll be working on that tonight.


I am (almost) jealous. I have bought some that I feel no need to fiddle with to make them sound better. So, while I am content with the sound that most of them have, I sort of like/miss tip rolling, and cable rolling, and even filter rolling from IEMs. Maybe I'll get some more drivers, and even some filters to play with the M2S Pro some more, because I DO think these need to sound better than the stock 40 ohm (and maybe I'll even cable roll a bit too). I haven't found there to be a significant difference between full foam, donut, and no foam so far (at least with the Smabats). Maybe my ears just can't hear it because they are pretty strong in the area I am sensitive to, so I can't hear the lifted bass, etc... 

Or maybe I just need to break down and just do a DIY set?!    #2


----------



## axhng

have a pair of moripods i wasn't using much (not the biggest fan of half in ear earbuds), so decided to fiddle around with it a bit. drivers are from vido, but I changed the shell cover to a metal one. wasn't really a great fit sadly since the battery was right underneath the driver (thought it would be like airpods with the battery in the stem). if only the battery was 1mm thinner. anyway, ended up using epoxy glue to stick the drivers in place. with replacement driver they barely fit the case, and i prefer using them with foams, so ended up trimming the inside of the charging case. downside is that if i want to charge them i'll need to close the lid now to push the earbuds down so it makes contact with the charging contacts, and the lid doesn't quite close fully.  was planning on using them at home so i can listen to podcasts/live streams and maybe a bit of music without being tethered to my desk, so doesn't matter i guess. They sound better than the stock half in ear drivers to me, are super comfortable, and fit my ears securely too.

it seems like maybe sabbat x12 might still be the best option for such conversions, just that they aren't exactly that cheap. i found these x12 lookalikes at a cheaper price, though the connectivity options seems kinda meh. :/
https://shopee.sg/Plextone-4LIFE-TW...t-PK-X12-Pro-E12-ultra-i.174140367.9575341563


----------



## Ronion

Ultralight said:


> Not sure bout the Zen Lite, but the Zen 2.0 is designed to be used without foams.


These must be too because holy moly are these different and way better!  I’ve already found their sweet spot in my ear with these little rubber rings.  These are fantastic buds especially when you factor in their build quality and comfort.  Now I think I need to redo my comparison.  These have certainly earned a permanent spot in the stable though.


----------



## samandhi

axhng said:


> have a pair of moripods i wasn't using much (not the biggest fan of half in ear earbuds), so decided to fiddle around with it a bit. drivers are from vido, but I changed the shell cover to a metal one. wasn't really a great fit sadly since the battery was right underneath the driver (thought it would be like airpods with the battery in the stem). if only the battery was 1mm thinner. anyway, ended up using epoxy glue to stick the drivers in place. with replacement driver they barely fit the case, and i prefer using them with foams, so ended up trimming the inside of the charging case. downside is that if i want to charge them i'll need to close the lid now to push the earbuds down so it makes contact with the charging contacts, and the lid doesn't quite close fully.  was planning on using them at home so i can listen to podcasts/live streams and maybe a bit of music without being tethered to my desk, so doesn't matter i guess. They sound better than the stock half in ear drivers to me, are super comfortable, and fit my ears securely too.
> 
> it seems like maybe sabbat x12 might still be the best option for such conversions, just that they aren't exactly that cheap. i found these x12 lookalikes at a cheaper price, though the connectivity options seems kinda meh. :/
> https://shopee.sg/Plextone-4LIFE-TW...t-PK-X12-Pro-E12-ultra-i.174140367.9575341563


Interesting concept. TWS earbuds.... I like it.


----------



## 40760

Ronion said:


> These must be too because holy moly are these different and way better!  I’ve already found their sweet spot in my ear with these little rubber rings.  These are fantastic buds especially when you factor in their build quality and comfort.  Now I think I need to redo my comparison.  These have certainly earned a permanent spot in the stable though.



I think the rubber rings without the wings should give these a real proper fit for the regular ears. I did the same with Zen LL when I had them and they proved to be great.


----------



## axhng

samandhi said:


> Interesting concept. TWS earbuds.... I like it.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3656#post-16398546 the mod to the sabbat x12 by assassin10000 probably works better.


----------



## ZachPtheDude

Rary said:


> I was browsing Aliexpress looking for good deals when i stumbled upon this review in the M2s Pro drivers official page Link
> 
> 
> 
> ...



this doesn’t look good


----------



## Ronion

FWIW, mine are the real thing for certain.  Talking to the SMABAT guys I can’t even imagine them doing this type of thing.  They seem like pretty righteous, dorky (in a good way), dudes.


----------



## Ronion (Sep 6, 2021)

samandhi said:


> I am (almost) jealous. I have bought some that I feel no need to fiddle with to make them sound better. So, while I am content with the sound that most of them have, I sort of like/miss tip rolling, and cable rolling, and even filter rolling from IEMs. Maybe I'll get some more drivers, and even some filters to play with the M2S Pro some more, because I DO think these need to sound better than the stock 40 ohm (and maybe I'll even cable roll a bit too). I haven't found there to be a significant difference between full foam, donut, and no foam so far (at least with the Smabats). Maybe my ears just can't hear it because they are pretty strong in the area I am sensitive to, so I can't hear the lifted bass, etc...
> 
> Or maybe I just need to break down and just do a DIY set?!    #2


If you want some tuning screens for the SMABAT, I have some.  Just let me know if you are local.  We can arrange something. 

The SMABAT do seem far less susceptible to changes than the Zen Lite.  Of course the Zen Lite seem to change far more than all the others with different foams, fins and little rubber rings.  The Zen lite still don’t have the clarity of the SMABAT, but they are definitely in the league of the of the LBBs and the AE Earbuds and they handle power and bass levels the others can’t.  It’s way too loud though for any long term or even more than seconds of listening.  I shouldn’t do that to myself and I know it, but I just wanted to test the limits.  The bass is now deep and fast!  Very cool changes.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Sep 7, 2021)

axhng said:


> it seems like maybe sabbat x12 might still be the best option for such conversions, just that they aren't exactly that cheap. i found these x12 lookalikes at a cheaper price, though the connectivity options seems kinda meh. :/


Sabbat X12 Ultra in stock sounds better than many earbuds under ~50$. Very competent and balanced setting. Earbuds with wire can boast only with more detailed sound.


----------



## shenshen

Ronion said:


> These must be too because holy moly are these different and way better!  I’ve already found their sweet spot in my ear with these little rubber rings.  These are fantastic buds especially when you factor in their build quality and comfort.  Now I think I need to redo my comparison.  These have certainly earned a permanent spot in the stable though.


This doesn't surprise me. Out of the 3 VE earbuds I own, only the Monk Lite 120ohm works with foams. Both the Monk+ and VE ZOE lose tons of detail with foams and become muddy messes (in my opinion). Naked, the buds really open up and still deliver good bass response, which is astonishing to me. I haven't observed such a drastic change in sound from foamed vs naked in any of my earbuds.


----------



## forestitalia

Alex.Grimm said:


> Sabbat X12 Ultra in stock sounds better than many earbuds under ~80$. Very competent and balanced setting. Earbuds with wire can boast only with more detailed sound.


Interesting, but looking their shape, are those buds stable in ears, no issue?


----------



## Ronion

These Zen Lite have been blowing my mind tonight.  Wow did I misrepresent them!  They should come with instructions Or something like: try them once in every configuration that comes in the box.  Not a single annoying sound coming out of these drivers.  In fact, they are beautiful.  I think any buds I get from this point forward I’m going to do a lot more experimentation Before I pass any judgement.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

forestitalia said:


> Interesting, but looking their shape, are those buds stable in ears, no issue?


I have only had occasion to evaluate at an audiophile meeting. They sat in my ears well. I ordered myself too, I will try to describe in more detail how they will arrive, maybe it was just a wow effect.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> These Zen Lite have been blowing my mind tonight.  Wow did I misrepresent them!  They should come with instructions Or something like: try them once in every configuration that comes in the box.  Not a single annoying sound coming out of these drivers.  In fact, they are beautiful.  I think any buds I get from this point forward I’m going to do a lot more experimentation Before I pass any judgement.


Maybe it is that, or maybe you just "cleansed your pallet" so to speak. Different earbuds/IEMs/headphones will sound different to you on different days. Maybe you inserted them differently, or the hairs in your ears are coated with wax (or clean for a change LOL), or etc... Give them a good listen that way for a few days and see if you still feel that way?!

For instance, my iBasso IT07 IEMs. They are my absolute favorite sounding... [insert type of phone here], but now and again I put them in and think to myself, what happened to these? They sound like crap! But, after a few days they are back to being fantastic again. 

Just some food for thought, and nothing more than theorizing on my part.


----------



## iFi audio

KutuzovGambit said:


> Probably via battery life of four minutes.



C'mon, give us some credit, we're talking about at least six


----------



## chinmie

forestitalia said:


> Interesting, but looking their shape, are those buds stable in ears, no issue?



it depends on the ear shape too, if the ears have enough "sitting space" for earphones on the concha behind the antitragus, it will be stable. i have few friends that can't wear the X12 stable enough.


----------



## samandhi

chinmie said:


> it depends on the ear shape too, if the ears have enough "sitting space" for earphones on the concha behind the antitragus, it will be stable. i have few friends that can't wear the X12 stable enough.


Interesting seeing that picture. My ear canal sits right behind the Tragus, and the Tragus and Anti Tragus are much closer together, giving me a great "flap" that will hold earbuds in place... My wife on the other hand has like 0 space from the Tragus/Anti Tragus to the Concha which means her ears won't support buds at all of really any kind. She has to use in ear phones, or at least something that will artificially hold them in place like the Bose Stay Here wings or over ear holders. Even then, they aren't very steady in there...


----------



## chinmie

samandhi said:


> Maybe it is that, or maybe you just "cleansed your pallet" so to speak. Different earbuds/IEMs/headphones will sound different to you on different days. Maybe you inserted them differently, or the hairs in your ears are coated with wax (or clean for a change LOL), or etc... Give them a good listen that way for a few days and see if you still feel that way?!
> 
> For instance, my iBasso IT07 IEMs. They are my absolute favorite sounding... [insert type of phone here], but now and again I put them in and think to myself, what happened to these? They sound like crap! But, after a few days they are back to being fantastic again.
> 
> Just some food for thought, and nothing more than theorizing on my part.



yes, ears are highly adaptive, just like the eyes, skin, and other parts of human body. it's similar like that experiment where we dunk our left hand in ice water and the right hand in warm water, and after a few moments we put both of them in a room temperature water.. both hands will feel the temperature differently. 

that's why i still keep some different sounding earphones : even if it sounds unexciting today, it will surprise me some other day (and vice versa)


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Maybe it is that, or maybe you just "cleansed your pallet" so to speak. Different earbuds/IEMs/headphones will sound different to you on different days. Maybe you inserted them differently, or the hairs in your ears are coated with wax (or clean for a change LOL), or etc... Give them a good listen that way for a few days and see if you still feel that way?!
> 
> For instance, my iBasso IT07 IEMs. They are my absolute favorite sounding... [insert type of phone here], but now and again I put them in and think to myself, what happened to these? They sound like crap! But, after a few days they are back to being fantastic again.
> 
> Just some food for thought, and nothing more than theorizing on my part.


I definitely will listen to these for a few.  They were my EDC for 2 weeks with the foams that didn't work for them.  I just EQed them into submission.

This type of thing has happened to me with my SMABAT several times.  It's just a certain way they sit in my ears.  Just a particular position makes that 3k region way too high.  Then I take it out and place it again and voila, it's good (though still not perfect--there's a bit too much energy there for me that can be made horrible with a bad seating).  The mx500 shell is the same and the EA earbuds do it slightly in my right ear.  The LBBs, DP100, and the Zen Lite fit so lock and key that it hasn't been much of a problem though when I go completely naked with the Lite, it gets boxy (too much energy from 400-900Hz-ish).   

Even at different times of the day, music sounds different to me live or recorded and no doubt that's possibly part of the story.  It seems to happen more dramatically with IEMs and buds due to seating issues than any other listening method and buds have the highest variability for me though generally more subtle.  When an IEM isn't sitting right, it's obvious.  Buds can be not perfect and yet not horrible.  That said, side-by-side with the competition from the previous day which sounded as I remembered, and switching various foams, it was just that: the tuning is dramatically different.  Switching them back to how they were the day before, and they sounded that way.  Confirmation bias may not be out of the question, but my ear isn't particularly dishonest.  Time will tell.


----------



## fonkepala

shenshen said:


> This doesn't surprise me. Out of the 3 VE earbuds I own, only the Monk Lite 120ohm works with foams. Both the Monk+ and VE ZOE lose tons of detail with foams and become muddy messes (in my opinion). Naked, the buds really open up and still deliver good bass response, which is astonishing to me. I haven't observed such a drastic change in sound from foamed vs naked in any of my earbuds.


Although I use all my buds with foams as a rule (without foams most are just apt to fall out of my ears), I'm looking forward to trying this with the Zen 2.0 (4.4 balanced) that is on its way to me now.



Ronion said:


> These Zen Lite have been blowing my mind tonight.  Wow did I misrepresent them!  They should come with instructions Or something like: try them once in every configuration that comes in the box.  Not a single annoying sound coming out of these drivers.  In fact, they are beautiful.  I think any buds I get from this point forward I’m going to do a lot more experimentation Before I pass any judgement.


If you like the Zen Lite, perhaps also give the Zen LL a try. I've used mine for going on a week straight and they're very good, imho. I particularly like the note weight, my music sounds richer and more 'substantial' with the Zen LL.


----------



## shenshen

fonkepala said:


> Although I use all my buds with foams as a rule (without foams most are just apt to fall out of my ears), I'm looking forward to trying this with the Zen 2.0 (4.4 balanced) that is on its way to me now.
> 
> 
> If you like the Zen Lite, perhaps also give the Zen LL a try. I've used mine for going on a week straight and they're very good, imho. I particularly like the note weight, my music sounds richer and more 'substantial' with the Zen LL.


I would be interested in hearing your experience. I too wear foams on every earbud, but with the Monk+ and ZOE, the SQ difference is too drastic for me to justify using with foams. Other reviewers of the Zen 2.0 note this discrepancy to varying degrees.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Sep 7, 2021)

Earbuds* Sabbat X12 Ultra*





A very competent and balanced setting.

APTX enabled: sound a little brighter and more detailed (the sound with APTX from memory reminds sound similar to Shozy BK)
APTX disabled: sound more massive, bassier, and slightly less detailed

in total, we have 2 different sound modes

A good alternative so as not to carry a DAP with you, they sound for 50 bucks somewhere, in some nuances, it is even more expensive, in some it is cheaper.

It turns out more profitable than buying some kind of DAP for streaming like Shanling M3X and budget inserts like RY4S, etc. All the same, in transport and on the street, the sound loses a lot of detail.

PS. I'll write about Huawei Freebuds 3 later and compare it with these.


----------



## Ronion

fonkepala said:


> Although I use all my buds with foams as a rule (without foams most are just apt to fall out of my ears), I'm looking forward to trying this with the Zen 2.0 (4.4 balanced) that is on its way to me now.
> 
> 
> If you like the Zen Lite, perhaps also give the Zen LL a try. I've used mine for going on a week straight and they're very good, imho. I particularly like the note weight, my music sounds richer and more 'substantial' with the Zen LL.


I deliberated a long time about LL and Lite.  After a discussion with a VE Rep (I believe it was Wild Lee himself), I went with the Lite which I thought was a mistake initially.  Now I’m totally happy with it Though I bet I’d feel the same way about the LL.  I think my only mistake was using foams that were too dense for it.  I just used HeiGi because I’ve had great luck with them in the past.  HeiGi are incredibly comfortable


----------



## shenshen

newbsound X on the way to my house, excited to try a relatively new maker based in the US


----------



## cyh03176

I just made a new purchase and it arrived two days ago. It is the Lumigon H2. It was the free buds that came with the Lumigon T2 HD. Both phone speakers and buds are claimed to be tuned by Bang & Olufsen. I think you guys who have access to taobao should absolutely try this because it is a total steal for USD4 (shipping cost excluded)!!! Just get it and let it burn-in for a few hours and it sings! Of course, there is no perfect buds in this world and there are only two cons for me: 1. the size is somewhat a little bigger than the usual Apple Earpod style earbuds, my ears hurt after sometime, putting a foam fixes that somehow but the sound signature is altered, 2. the sub-bass is none existent but which bud has sub-bass anyway, at least not the ones I own.

here is the link: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.da312e8dqEA2Gg&id=643514198925&_u=820aemkbskfd7f


----------



## n00b (Sep 7, 2021)

Initial Super One driver in M2S Pro shell impressions compared to golden driver (I am waiting on another cable and it'll be easier to do comparisons with stock 40ohm, gold, and super together. I only have 2 shells and 1 cable at the moment). worn with full foams

- Bigger subbass quality and rumble
- Brighter treble -- this is probably the biggest difference because it changes from the golden driver what I would consider a balanced/neutral and sort of laid back presentation. My initial impression was the super one driver is almost V-shaped because of its sub-bass quantity and a perceived higher clarity, sparkle, and air in the treble
- Treble seems to be 'sharp' in certain sounds, like a snare drum or clap, but it also seems to add more texture to the sounds
- Soundstage and imaging seems to be most technically proficient on the super one driver
- Female vocals seem airy, but sometimes potentially sharp, metallic. Against bass-heavy tracks, they seem a little distant. This might be 'veiled vocals' in reviewer speak
- Male vocals, seems similar to female vocals. A little dry
- Instrument separation seems clearer and distinct
- edit: I think this has bass bleed or something. some bass starts to sound 'wonky', like a fuzzy horn honking instead of a tighter low frequency tone.

As a result of fuller subbass, sparklier/airer treble, solid imaging and soundstage, and clearer instrument separation, it seems to leave the vocals behind. I mean that in the sense that doesn't immediately strike me as a 'ooh, forward vocals' type of bud. I can clearly hear the vocals, they just don't have the same kind of impact and emphasis as the surrounding instrumentation or beat.

I'm curious to hear other impressions as well. I think as an option for an M2s Pro Shell, this could be a sidegrade depending on what kind of music you listen to. I think the gold driver (from memory) is an upgrade over stock. Between gold and Super, since the price isnt too far off I think you can justify trying either. If the Super One shell/package at $200+ sounds like this then it wouldn't make sense to do over building your own Smabat bud.

edit: currently leaning towards gold driver over super one driver :\. just seems more balanced tonality wise. its possible that super one has an edge on technicalities but i guess it doesnt matter if you dont like the tonality.

edit2: omg this almost feels like.. if you are into IEMs..

super one driver = ikko oh10
gold driver = blessing2 dusk

in the sense that the super one driver is a more 'fun' sound that's decently technical, good stage, but lots of sub bass and air but vocals feel lacking. more about the music/production/instrumentation than the vocals

gold driver is more balanced overall with a more neutral tonality and a touch of warmth to sound full and lush. also decently technical but maybe soundstage is a little narrower and some microdynamics/texture/detail is missing (or rather, maybe super one driver artificially increases it with the boosted treble from 2k-5k)


----------



## jrazmar

shenshen said:


> newbsound X on the way to my house, excited to try a relatively new maker based in the US


Good for you sir. Unfortunately, the maker does not ship to my country. Looking forward to your impressions and maybe comparison to what you have already. Those cable looks stiff though in the picture.


----------



## boltrane (Sep 8, 2021)

Just put together my smabat M0 shells with the white driver (described on smabat site as having the most treble) and a nicehck cable. The shell of the m0 doesn’t fit me so well, the “tragus“ part of my ear pushes them out.
i usually don’t use foams since it introduces too much mid bass.
i still think they lack the sparkle at the top end (I’m a grado fan so always looking for a brighter sound), and they probably need a bit more sub bass.

I prefer them to Vidos which I find a too boomy (mid bassy), but compared to faaeal snow lotus it’s a more difficult choice.

btw. The fit of the drivers in the shell is not great. I removed the red rubber band and added a thin bead of hot glue to get the drivers to stay on.


----------



## shenshen

jrazmar said:


> Good for you sir. Unfortunately, the maker does not ship to my country. Looking forward to your impressions and maybe comparison to what you have already. Those cable looks stiff though in the picture.


That's too bad. Cable looks fine to me, just a looser braid than I'm used to seeing. I'll be sure to post my impressions here when I receive them!


----------



## 40760

shenshen said:


> That's too bad. Cable looks fine to me, just a looser braid than I'm used to seeing. I'll be sure to post my impressions here when I receive them!



Looser braids are really quite nice on stiffer cables. I think you will see what I mean when you get them.


----------



## shenshen

Ultralight said:


> Looser braids are really quite nice on stiffer cables. I think you will see what I mean when you get them.


Yeah I didn't mean it in a bad way, excited to handle it!


----------



## jrazmar

shenshen said:


> That's too bad. Cable looks fine to me, just a looser braid than I'm used to seeing. I'll be sure to post my impressions here when I receive them!


I see you have the Blur, too. Mine is the 266 MX64 aPs so a quick comparison with the Newbsound X will be much appreciated.


----------



## jogawag (Sep 8, 2021)

I found *MMCX Vido* in Aliexpress.
It's a bit more expensive than the RY4S MMCX Plus, but I think it's superior in terms of bass. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002939928996.html


----------



## baskingshark

jogawag said:


> I found *MMCX Vido* in Aliexpress.
> It's a bit more expensive than the RY4S MMCX Plus, but I think it's superior in terms of bass.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002939928996.html



Wow good find!

The normal Vidos without detachable cables go at $1ish USD. With MMCX it is $12.99!!! 

I really like my Vidos, but TBH, for $13 USD I may rather look at stuff like RY4S Plus, FAAEAL Rosemary, Yincrow X6.


----------



## Ronion

n00b said:


> Initial Super One driver in M2S Pro shell impressions compared to golden driver (I am waiting on another cable and it'll be easier to do comparisons with stock 40ohm, gold, and super together. I only have 2 shells and 1 cable at the moment). worn with full foams
> 
> - Bigger subbass quality and rumble
> - Brighter treble -- this is probably the biggest difference because it changes from the golden driver what I would consider a balanced/neutral and sort of laid back presentation. My initial impression was the super one driver is almost V-shaped because of its sub-bass quantity and a perceived higher clarity, sparkle, and air in the treble
> ...


I just got mine this evening.  It was a nice surprise to say the least.  I put it in my M0 shell and all I can say is that it will definitely need more tweaking in that shell.  It is BRIGHT!  So I put the type 1 filter and it improved immensely, but still didn’t sound as nice as the 150Ohm in the M2s Pro shell.  It’s still too bright and the crazy deep bass that’s so easy to love is reduced.  So I swapped shells and that’s a real help.  Oddly, that 150Ohm driver doesn’t seem to Be as affected by the shell swap.  The type 1 filter seems to work wonders for it And the M2s Pro works wonders for the Super One driver.  It will take time to tease out which I prefer but I’m leaning toward the 150 Ohm.  I’m sort of glad that one is not radically better than the other.  The 150 Ohm does seem slightly higher resolution though and the Super One a bit closer to the Zen Lite.  like I said though, it will take some time.


----------



## n00b

Ronion said:


> I just got mine this evening.  It was a nice surprise to say the least.  I put it in my M0 shell and all I can say is that it will definitely need more tweaking in that shell.  It is BRIGHT!  So I put the type 1 filter and it improved immensely, but still didn’t sound as nice as the 150Ohm in the M2s Pro shell.  It’s still too bright and the crazy deep bass that’s so easy to love is reduced.  So I swapped shells and that’s a real help.  Oddly, that 150Ohm driver doesn’t seem to Be as affected by the shell swap.  The type 1 filter seems to work wonders for it And the M2s Pro works wonders for the Super One driver.  It will take time to tease out which I prefer but I’m leaning toward the 150 Ohm.  I’m sort of glad that one is not radically better than the other.  The 150 Ohm does seem slightly higher resolution though and the Super One a bit closer to the Zen Lite.  like I said though, it will take some time.


do you find the mids to be recessed, or vocals distant compared to instruments?


----------



## iemhater

So I just got my LBBS and the right side is quieter than the left side... 

I tested it with https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/ and also swapped it between my ears to make sure it wasn't my ears being damaged.

The quality control on chinese earbuds is not good.


----------



## KutuzovGambit

iemhater said:


> So I just got my LBBS and the right side is quieter than the left side...
> 
> I tested it with https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/ and also swapped it between my ears to make sure it wasn't my ears being damaged.
> 
> The quality control on chinese earbuds is not good.


File a claim with AliExpress. Just be thankful the problem happened out of box and not after the protection period ended!


----------



## iemhater

KutuzovGambit said:


> File a claim with AliExpress. Just be thankful the problem happened out of box and not after the protection period ended!



Are they going to make me ship it all the way back to China for $50 though?


----------



## KutuzovGambit

iemhater said:


> Are they going to make me ship it all the way back to China for $50 though?


Depends on the shop but if they don’t make it good for free file the claim with AliExpress and they should cover you.


----------



## iemhater (Sep 8, 2021)

Seems like it is worse than just 1 side being louder than the other.

I managed to download a db meter for my phone so I can be more scientific, and it seems like the loudness is equal at low frequencies, but as I go above 300hz the loudness difference gets worse, all the way up to a 15 db difference at 3000 hz. I'm guessing the treble on the left side is broken.



KutuzovGambit said:


> Depends on the shop but if they don’t make it good for free file the claim with AliExpress and they should cover you.


I suspect I bought it from the same place everyone else here did, I got it from Nicehck. I am sad because they sound really good otherwise.


----------



## Chris674

shenshen said:


> newbsound X on the way to my house, excited to try a relatively new maker based in the US


Where can I find more information about this brand?


----------



## jogawag

iemhater said:


> Seems like it is worse than just 1 side being louder than the other.
> 
> I managed to download a db meter for my phone so I can be more scientific, and it seems like the loudness is equal at low frequencies, but as I go above 300hz the loudness difference gets worse, all the way up to a 15 db difference at 3000 hz. I'm guessing the treble on the left side is broken.
> 
> ...


If the seller is NiceHCK, you can use the Contact Seller button on the transaction screen to open a chat window to discuss the sound problem.
They will ask you to send them video evidence, so NiceHCK may send you a new LBBS.

If they don't, you'll need Open Dispute.


----------



## iemhater

jogawag said:


> If the seller is NiceHCK, you can use the Contact Seller button on the transaction screen to open a chat window to discuss the sound problem.
> They will ask you to send them video evidence, so NiceHCK may send you a new LBBS.
> 
> If they don't, you'll need Open Dispute.


Ok thanks for the suggestion, time for me to try and record this on my cell phone with 1 hand.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

iemhater said:


> So I just got my LBBS and the right side is quieter than the left side...
> 
> I tested it with https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/ and also swapped it between my ears to make sure it wasn't my ears being damaged.
> 
> The quality control on chinese earbuds is not good.


Unfortunately, that is appearing to be more and more the case. Sad. Here is *my ordeal* if you haven't already read about it. I too have a volume (loudness) mismatch as well.


----------



## iemhater

WoodyLuvr said:


> Unfortunately, that is appearing to be more and more the case. Sad. Here is *my ordeal* if you haven't already read about it. I too have a volume (loudness) mismatch as well.



Sorry to hear that, but at least we know we're not alone!

But I feel like I'm especially unlucky, 3 out of 5 chinese earbuds I've bought have build issues! This is a very bad percentage in my opinion.

ve monk plus - no problems
diy nickhck mx500 - no problems
FAAEAL Datura Pro - the drivers just popped out and stopped working
MrZ Tomahawk - drivers became loose, I was able to super glue it back before it stopped working.
LBBS - 1 side treble is broken
What percentage of Chinese earbuds have gone bad for you? Is this an issue for anyone else?


----------



## axhng

iemhater said:


> Sorry to hear that, but at least we know we're not alone!
> 
> But I feel like I'm especially unlucky, 3 out of 5 chinese earbuds I've bought have build issues! This is a very bad percentage in my opinion.
> 
> ...


For earbuds it's been mostly not too bad for me. JieTu DIY MX500 MMCX with huge channel imbalance, NiceHCK traceless loose/rattling driver (though glued it back in place and it was fine). Not sure if i can add in Faaeal Iris CE since my unit sounds a bit off and nothing like what others have described. This is out of maybe over 20+ earbuds?

I know how it feels though. I've ever been "lucky" enough to get 3 iPhone 11 in a row with obvious specks of dust under the camera lens, one of them even had a ding on the frame straight out of the box. Apple took them back each time without fuss of course, but gave up after the 3rd time and got a refund instead. maybe it was early batches or what not, waited a few month before trying again and it was perfectly fine.


----------



## Penon (Sep 9, 2021)

SHOZY BK (Black) 3.5mm version is restocked now .​https://penonaudio.com/shozy-bk-black.html


----------



## shenshen

Chris674 said:


> Where can I find more information about this brand?


Not really a brand, newbsound earbuds are made by Bisoy Sinan, you can find him through the Earbuds Anonymous facebook group or on instagram @newb_bisoy. I believe he only started selling his creations this year, so there isn't a ton of information out there.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Penon said:


> SHOZY BK (Black) 3.5mm version is restocked now .​https://penonaudio.com/shozy-bk-black.html


@Penon  Same driver as in the original 2016 version or is this an updated 16Ω driver unit?


----------



## Ronion

n00b said:


> do you find the mids to be recessed, or vocals distant compared to instruments?


I really don’t to be honest—at least not in a profound manner.  In fact our impressions of these drivers are significantly different and it makes me wonder what filter you have in it.  Right now mine are filterless in the M2s pro shell and I have to say that are as close to perfect as I’ve ever heard a bud.  Pretty darn neutral sounding and extended on both ends.  Certainly mellower that the 150 Ohm driver.   These buds really sound beautiful.  I’d put them in my #1 slot right now followed by the 150 Ohm driver, but they are really, really close.  In fact, whichever one of those two I’m listening to is my favorite lol.   They are both in a class above anything else I own.  I wish I had tried the 150Ohm drivers with some filters in the M2s Pro shell.  I’d bet they can be perfected with filters in those Shells.  Hopefully @samandhi Gives it a shot.


----------



## 40760

WoodyLuvr said:


> @Penon  Same driver as in the original 2016 version or is this an updated 16Ω driver unit?



Now, this is an important info for those considering the BK. I assume cables are the new ones too?


----------



## Ronion (Sep 9, 2021)

I should add that in the M0 shells the Super One driver seems much brighter than the 150 Ohm.  It’s just the opposite in the M2s Pro shell.  They both sound better with filters IMO in the M0 shell.

Ive actually had very good luck with the buds from China.  Not 1 dud yet though I did break a 40 Ohm SMABAT driver after exchanging it many times.  Other than that my SMABAT stuff has fit like a glove after I figured out how to connect it all properly.


----------



## n00b (Sep 9, 2021)

Ronion said:


> I really don’t to be honest—at least not in a profound manner.  In fact our impressions of these drivers are significantly different and it makes me wonder what filter you have in it.  Right now mine are filterless in the M2s pro shell and I have to say that are as close to perfect as I’ve ever heard a bud.  Pretty darn neutral sounding and extended on both ends.  Certainly mellower that the 150 Ohm driver.   These buds really sound beautiful.  I’d put them in my #1 slot right now followed by the 150 Ohm driver, but they are really, really close.  In fact, whichever one of those two I’m listening to is my favorite lol.   They are both in a class above anything else I own.  I wish I had tried the 150Ohm drivers with some filters in the M2s Pro shell.  I’d bet they can be perfected with filters in those Shells.  Hopefully @samandhi Gives it a shot.


Lol I have not touched filters at all. I’ll give it more testing but right now my 150s sound pretty perfect in the regular shell config. As in, all I did was unscrew the stock 40ohm drivers and slap in the golds. For my super ones I bought the spare shell and spare driver so I’m not sure if the filters are installed actually. I’ll look into it soon since my bell ti plus arrive any day now loool

edit: ok there are filters in my spare shell I ordered. Why’d you decide to remove the filters? I’m kind of reluctant to do so since I didn’t buy the $10 kit of filters


----------



## fonkepala

shenshen said:


> Not really a brand, newbsound earbuds are made by Bisoy Sinan, you can find him through the Earbuds Anonymous facebook group or on instagram @newb_bisoy. I believe he only started selling his creations this year, so there isn't a ton of information out there.


I've been interested in newbsound buds for ages! Too bad the maker doesn't ship to outside CONUS. If/when he does, I'll be sure to grab a pair. Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## n00b

Alright so initial findings after removing the filters on my spare M2s pro shell with the super one: it just makes the bass even less controlled. Starting to sound buzzy/flabby. Switching to donut foams tamed this down a bit, so I'm going to settle for this config:

M2s Pro Shell - no filter (would probably prefer the +mids filter) - Donut foam - (probably pure silver cable).

I don't think it's worth doing any of this filter/foam/cable rolling when you can just buy M2s Pro Shell + golden driver + cable and call it a day, which is what I recommend.


----------



## Dany1

iemhater said:


> Ok thanks for the suggestion, time for me to try and record this on my cell phone with 1 hand.



What will you show them as video evidence ? I ordered LBBS from same store and i'm about to receive mine in a few days. So this QC issue has gotten me worried now. 

I had a bad experience with Aliexpress, few months ago I received an Bluetooth earbud that had QC issue, constant disconnections, Dim volume sound. I opened a dispute and asked for partial refund. I also showed video evidence of sound constantly cutting off while playing the tracks. It absolutely pissed me off at how Aliexpress judgement changed my dispute proposal from partial refund to Return item to seller and get full Refund. That's not what i had asked for. Also there was no option left for me to write anything on the dispute page besides entering a tracking number. I had no option but to lose the dispute because i couldn't return it to seller. So i wouldn't keep much faith in Aliexpress next time i face a QC issue with any of my purchases from there.


----------



## Ronion (Sep 9, 2021)

@n00b :  One of the coolest part about the SMABAT is the ability to tune its acoustics.  I removed the filters to increase bass—just for fun as I had a filter set that could replace the originals.  I ended up liking the bass boost even though it does make it a bit flabbier (flabby people have more fun 🤩 or so I’ve been told) And it does seem to also boost 1-3khzwhich can be the system’s biggest fault IMO.  the 1-3k boost wasn’t something I noticed right away because I was mostly focusing on the bass.  What I am noticing right now—but I’ve only heard it on a Crosby, Stills, Nash song is a vocal formants are still a bit boosted For absolute perfection.  It’s mild.  All the filters have been designed to tune the vocal formants range so I’m sure there’s one that will optimize that range for my hearing—or at least the odds are pretty good with 4 different options.  CSN or CSN&Y, Joyner Lucas and Eminem expose The region well.  Pushing their vocals to the edge of comfort at high(ish) volumes should be just about right.

The filters may be why your vocals seemed recessed with the Super One.  A different one might be a better option.  I’m betting it comes with the #1 installed.  Tuning these things it part of the fun for me.  The combo of the right foam, filter, driver and shell for audio bliss…. I may start with the number 2 filter based on your description.  Were you going foamless at first?


----------



## n00b

Nah I was using full foams as a baseline, then went donut after removing the filter. I believe it comes with #1 filter in its regular configuration. I will eventually toss in a filter set in one of my aliexpress orders, and maybe a pure silver cable (although I probably cant hear differences between copper, spc and silver re: bass response). I'm also going to try source matching to see if my sony DAPs vs AK DAP makes a difference. Overall, the Super One in M2s Pro shell is not bad by any means, but cost wise I don't think its 2x as good as the golden driver and theres a lot of experimenting/rolling involved that can be fun for some but bothersome for others


----------



## WoodyLuvr

iemhater said:


> Sorry to hear that, but at least we know we're not alone!
> 
> But I feel like I'm especially unlucky, 3 out of 5 chinese earbuds I've bought have build issues! This is a very bad percentage in my opinion.
> 
> ...


Out of nearly three hundred earbuds surprisingly only a handful had serious mechanical and/or tuning QC issues. I have had a higher percentage of issues/failures with IEMs than with earbuds or headphones.


----------



## Ronion

I’m sure it’s not 2X as good.  I definitely like them both And I lean to the Super One now just because mine is a bit more relaxed than the 150Ohm.  It seems to be mood dependent to me:which one I prefer.  Time will tell.


----------



## n00b

interesting as i have basically the exact opposite impression as you in every regard lmao. i would love to hear a third opinion out of curiosity


----------



## emusic13

Old is gold


----------



## iemhater

Dany1 said:


> What will you show them as video evidence ? I ordered LBBS from same store and i'm about to receive mine in a few days. So this QC issue has gotten me worried now.
> 
> I had a bad experience with Aliexpress, few months ago I received an Bluetooth earbud that had QC issue, constant disconnections, Dim volume sound. I opened a dispute and asked for partial refund. I also showed video evidence of sound constantly cutting off while playing the tracks. It absolutely pissed me off at how Aliexpress judgement changed my dispute proposal from partial refund to Return item to seller and get full Refund. That's not what i had asked for. Also there was no option left for me to write anything on the dispute page besides entering a tracking number. I had no option but to lose the dispute because i couldn't return it to seller. So i wouldn't keep much faith in Aliexpress next time i face a QC issue with any of my purchases from there.



I used a tone generator website to play a 3000 hz tone through my earbuds, then taped the right earbud to my microphone while showing the dB levels in a program callled audacity. Then I taped the left earbud and showed the dB level was different. It was a bit difficult to record this with 1 hand but I managed.

They seemed to have accepted that as evidence and told me to apply for aliexpress local return for a refund. I just hope it doesn't make me drive 20 miles away.


----------



## emusic13

shenshen said:


> newbsound X on the way to my house, excited to try a relatively new maker base


Looking forward to your impressions


----------



## n00b

My Bell Ti Plus arrived. It's insane. I need a hug. The hype is real. My favorite test tracks had way more texture and detail than I ever knew possible. Immediate goosebumps. My nipples are erect. Low end is full and lush. Vocals are sweet and intimate. Treble has air and sparkle. Soundstage and imaging feel holographic and lifelike. Comfort is really good -- not quite LBBS but very close. Miles better than Chaconne.

It's just unreal to me that I can listen to a song on my test track playlist and only notice the twang in the guitar for the first time with these in. I can hear the texture? and micro vibrado of vocals in a power ballad, bringing even more emotion forward.

This is bad. The world of buds is SO good with SO much value at the low end. I wish this type of performance didnt cost $600-700 but I understand why after listening to it. It is a marked upgrade from the Chaconne which are $330. Not quite 2x better, but it isn't close. I want to write more but I have some music to enjoy


----------



## emusic13

n00b said:


> My Bell Ti Plus arrived. It's insane. I need a hug. The hype is real. My favorite test tracks had way more texture and detail than I ever knew possible. Immediate goosebumps. My nipples are erect. Low end is full and lush. Vocals are sweet and intimate. Treble has air and sparkle. Soundstage and imaging feel holographic and lifelike. Comfort is really good -- not quite LBBS but very close. Miles better than Chaconne.
> 
> It's just unreal to me that I can listen to a song on my test track playlist and only notice the twang in the guitar for the first time with these in. I can hear the texture? and micro vibrado of vocals in a power ballad, bringing even more emotion forward.
> 
> This is bad. The world of buds is SO good with SO much value at the low end. I wish this type of performance didnt cost $600-700 but I understand why after listening to it. It is a marked upgrade from the Chaconne which are $330. Not quite 2x better, but it isn't close. I want to write more but I have some music to enjoy


"My nipples are erect" got me interested in these buds now  Any plans on going to Canjam since youre in LA?


----------



## uneri (Sep 19, 2021)

‎


----------



## n00b

emusic13 said:


> "My nipples are erect" got me interested in these buds now  Any plans on going to Canjam since youre in LA?


no plans sorry, kind of just want to live in this contentment and run far away from this thread for a few years and recoup costs of the upgrade treadmill in the classifieds. i can probably sell my chaconne, lbbs, one of my m2s pro, nicehck me80 if anyone is interested lol


uneri said:


> I used to own the Chaconne too, and IMO only its upper mids & treble are comparable to Bell-Ti Plus. In all other aspects, the Bell-Ti Plus wins easily, especially in the low end presentation, increased technicalities, plus comfort and wearability of the shells.
> 
> The interchangeable plugs on the Plus are a big plus as well (no pun intended), though I did wish they went with a twist lock system like on the Fiio EM5. The titanium finish plugs on the Plus can be quite slippery, and while changing the plug once, it almost flew out of my hands because I slipped a little.
> 
> ...


Agreed that overall the Ti Plus beats the Chaconne. I also was confused that the plug/termination doesn't lock, I was expecting more like the EM5 like you said. So now I just have to be careful unplugging. I also wish the carrying case had little holsters for each of the terminations since I might actually swap plugs often since I have Sony and AK DAPs so they use 4.4mm and 2.5mm.. my phone and computer are 3.5mm too, etc.

And man, if you were wowed from Onmyoji to Bell Ti Plus, imagine me coming from LBBS to Bell Ti Plus. And I was already wowed by the LBBS


----------



## Penon

WoodyLuvr said:


> @Penon  Same driver as in the original 2016 version or is this an updated 16Ω driver unit?


The SHOZY BK driver has always been the same, it has not been changed, 16ohm and the cable is brown。


----------



## jogawag

Penon said:


> The SHOZY BK driver has always been the same, it has not been changed, 16ohm and the cable is brown。


Did Shozy Cygnus change from 16 ohms to 32 ohms in the last re-release?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 10, 2021)

jogawag said:


> Did Shozy Cygnus change from 16 ohms to 32 ohms in the last re-release?


*2016 - Shozy Cygnus (18Ω)
2021 - Shozy Cygnus II (32Ω)*

Our longtime earbuds fanatic comrade *@golov17 *measured them at 18Ω as well back in 2016.


----------



## Ronion (Sep 10, 2021)

n00b said:


> interesting as i have basically the exact opposite impression as you in every regard lmao. i would love to hear a third opinion out of curiosity


Me too.  Things that you say to describe the SO are what I hear with the 150 Ohm and vise versa.  Who knows, but I’d sure like to know what someone else hears.


----------



## Carrow

F in the chat for my Sony MDR-434 set. I got them recabled (solving the annoying J-cable issue) and reterminated so could reap the benefits of MMCX. They lasted all of two weeks. Drivers had a heart attack overnight, looks like. I'm sad. I think I can save the shoelace cable (from Vic Hernandez at Stiks Audio) but fairly sure these are cooked. o7


----------



## n00b

well this doesn't bode well for K's durability.. less than 24 hours later the titanium sleeve on the 4.4mm jack just pops off when you push towards the plug. It should be ok for the most part since most of the time you're pulling the plug out and in the opposite direction but haha yeah.. just not a great experience. If you were in my shoes would you open a dispute for this?


----------



## fonkepala

n00b said:


> well this doesn't bode well for K's durability.. less than 24 hours later the titanium sleeve on the 4.4mm jack just pops off when you push towards the plug. It should be ok for the most part since most of the time you're pulling the plug out and in the opposite direction but haha yeah.. just not a great experience. If you were in my shoes would you open a dispute for this?


Oof. For that amount of money, *I* would.


----------



## n00b

Yeah I just sent them a friendly message asking for help before escalating, we'll see what happens. I ordered from VS Audio Store. I'm also worried about channel imbalance -- I briefly heard the left side louder than the right, but it was when I inserted them into a dongle for the first time and noticed the sleeve came off. So my thinking is that as I was inserting the Bell into the dongle, I pushed the sleeve off slightly and it stopped the plug from inserting completely, leading to channel imbalance. Once I tried other plugs and the same 4.4mm knowing it was inserted all the way, I tested with a tone generator and there was no imbalance. Just kinda.. worrying for the price haha. And would be disappointing because they sound unreal otherwise


----------



## DBaldock9

n00b said:


> well this doesn't bode well for K's durability.. less than 24 hours later the titanium sleeve on the 4.4mm jack just pops off when you push towards the plug. It should be ok for the most part since most of the time you're pulling the plug out and in the opposite direction but haha yeah.. just not a great experience. If you were in my shoes would you open a dispute for this?



As a cosmetic, rather than functional issue - my first instinct would be to just glue the sleeve back on with some "super glue" - taking care to first cover the contacts on the plug with tape.


----------



## Carrow

Carrow said:


> F in the chat for my Sony MDR-434 set. I got them recabled (solving the annoying J-cable issue) and reterminated so could reap the benefits of MMCX. They lasted all of two weeks. Drivers had a heart attack overnight, looks like. I'm sad. I think I can save the shoelace cable (from Vic Hernandez at Stiks Audio) but fairly sure these are cooked. o7



Cooked, calling it. Time of death: 10/09/21, 6:34pm GMT. o7


----------



## Ronion

@Carrow, sorry to hear about your buds man, but you are hilarious 😆  Seems like you are taking it well.

@n00b, that stinks!  You’ve got a lot of nice buds.  If this doesn’t work out to your satisfaction I’d recommend trying a set of Blur.  They are definitely more resolving that the SMABAT (assuming yours are similarly resolving as mine, but it’s hard to say with how differently we hear the various permutations of them lol), and you don’t have to tweak the tone at all.  Just tell Wong what you are looking for and Bam, he nails it.


----------



## Carrow

Ronion said:


> @Carrow, sorry to hear about your buds man, but you are hilarious 😆  Seems like you are taking it well.
> 
> @n00b, that stinks!  You’ve got a lot of nice buds.  If this doesn’t work out to your satisfaction I’d recommend trying a set of Blur.  They are definitely more resolving that the SMABAT (assuming yours are similarly resolving as mine, but it’s hard to say with how differently we hear the various permutations of them lol), and you don’t have to tweak the tone at all.  Just tell Wong what you are looking for and Bam, he nails it.


I'd be a lot more pissed if I didn't have a lead on a pair of genuine endgame-level vintage buds 👀


----------



## shenshen

Mail day!

LBBS and newbsound X


----------



## n00b

Can any Bell Ti/Onmyoji owners weigh in: would I be asking for trouble wearing the Bell Ti over the ear? I get the most comfortable and secure fit this way but I worry it might strain the cable near the stems. The curve is pretty gentle as is, and I'm hoping the stem is enough strain relief.. what do you think? This is always my worry about buds with non-detachable cables.


----------



## shenshen

shenshen said:


> Mail day!
> 
> LBBS and newbsound X


Initial impressions:

LBBS: What more needs to be said? These deserve all the praise they get, they punch far above their weight in terms of price. Very nice, balanced tuning with impressive technical ability. These being my first bell earbuds, as with all shell types I have encountered thus far, they fit well and I have no problem using them for extended periods of time.

newbsound X: Wasn't quite sure what to expect from this, but I was optimistic given the few reviews/impressions I could find being positive. I am glad to say that they deserve the praise they get! This pair is tuned very tastefully on the warm side and the low end is very well executed. Above average subbass quantity and good speed to go along with it. Despite the warm tuning and smooth tonality, detail is not lost on these and soundstage is also quite good. Notes have a considerable weight to them. These are a very fun pair of buds and make a good addition to my growing collection. I am happy to recommend them to anyone that can get them


----------



## assassin10000

n00b said:


> Can any Bell Ti/Onmyoji owners weigh in: would I be asking for trouble wearing the Bell Ti over the ear? I get the most comfortable and secure fit this way but I worry it might strain the cable near the stems. The curve is pretty gentle as is, and I'm hoping the stem is enough strain relief.. what do you think? This is always my worry about buds with non-detachable cables.


No more so than hanging down. Perhaps less actually.

Do you use those silicone ear hook/guides as well?


----------



## shenshen (Sep 11, 2021)

jrazmar said:


> I see you have the Blur, too. Mine is the 266 MX64 aPs so a quick comparison with the Newbsound X will be much appreciated.


I'm not sure how close our MX400 aPs and MX64 aPs are, but compared to my MX400:

newbsound X is much more warm leaning than the MX400 aPs which sounds slightly bright. Where the newbsound X has a fun, U-shaped sound, the MX400 aPs is a mid-centric, detail monster. They're almost opposites in that sense.  Don't get it twisted though, the newbsound X executes its sound excellently. They are just such different earbuds imo.


----------



## n00b

assassin10000 said:


> No more so than hanging down. Perhaps less actually.
> 
> Do you use those silicone ear hook/guides as well?


nope, no need for silicone. Just a full foam and it sits securely and comfortably in my ear and can withstand me looking around or the weight of the cable going into my pocket, etc. 

The wire doesn't look strained or anything right?


----------



## assassin10000

n00b said:


> nope, no need for silicone. Just a full foam and it sits securely and comfortably in my ear and can withstand me looking around or the weight of the cable going into my pocket, etc.
> 
> The wire doesn't look strained or anything right?


Forgot about the longer stem vs the LBBs. Possibly a slight bit of strain where it enters the stem.


----------



## n00b

hmm.. when i wear them down, i need to wear them sort of diagonally so there’s a similar bend going into the stem too. but its less stable and yanks around a bit more which might be even worse. i wish i didnt have to baby these things.. theyre $700 and made of titanium x____x


----------



## fonkepala

Ronion said:


> @Carrow, sorry to hear about your buds man, but you are hilarious 😆  Seems like you are taking it well.
> 
> @n00b, that stinks!  You’ve got a lot of nice buds.  If this doesn’t work out to your satisfaction I’d recommend trying a set of Blur.  They are definitely more resolving that the SMABAT (assuming yours are similarly resolving as mine, but it’s hard to say with how differently we hear the various permutations of them lol), and you don’t have to tweak the tone at all.  Just tell Wong what you are looking for and Bam, he nails it.


I concur with ronion’s rec of Blur earbuds, @n00b. you should give Wong a shot. There’s a reason a very small boutique maker like him has gained such a loyal following throughout the years. Not as expensive as the Bell-Ti, but probably just as capable of making your nipples erect, I wager. Perhaps even more.


----------



## assassin10000

n00b said:


> hmm.. when i wear them down, i need to wear them sort of diagonally so there’s a similar bend going into the stem too. but its less stable and yanks around a bit more which might be even worse. i wish i didnt have to baby these things.. theyre $700 and made of titanium x____x


In that case, it won't matter which way you wear them strain wise. Carry on.


----------



## uneri (Sep 19, 2021)

‎


----------



## Ronion (Sep 11, 2021)

How come I didn’t get any ear hooks with my LBBs?  I was robbed….

anyway, I spent the past 5 hours trying to tune my SMABAT(s) to sound like my Blur.  I’ve got the Super One driver fairly close tonally —though brighter and less resolved. Still the response is smooth and extended and sounds better than it ever has.  I went through every tuning screen comparing it back and forth with the Blur.  The “magic formula” ends up the type 1 filter with the thick, low density Venture Electronics full foams.  This doesn’t make it a Blur equivalent, but I am fairly proud of how nice this turned out.  The other option that makes it slightly darker than the Blurs is just to use Blur foams.  This may well be my preferred route but I’m not sure what brand of foams he’s using so it would be hard to obtain for people who don’t have BlurBuds.

I went through more permutations with the M0 shell with the 150Ohm golden driver, but I’m not there yet.  I almost had it with the type 1 filter and the Blur foam, but there’s still a resonance around 3kHz.  I can reduce that resonance with other foams, but then it becomes too V-shaped for what I’m shooting for.

Both drivers are more easily tuned to sound their best in the M2s pro shell.  Actually all three that I’ve tried, but I never tried to tune the 40 ohm.  It just worked well right out of the box with the foams from the box.  The 150 Ohm is the same in that regard but the Super One works best with other foams (Provided that if you buy the shell and not the whole M2s Pro it still comes with the type 1 filter installed).


----------



## rprodrigues (Sep 11, 2021)

Hello there,

I just found out that my pt2021 365 Ohm version actually measures 500 Ohm (per driver).

Anyone else with this "mismatch"?

I'm afraid the 365 Ohm drivers have experienced a shortage and they have been replaced by after market (budget) drivers.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 11, 2021)

rprodrigues said:


> Hello there,
> 
> I just found out that my pt2021 365 Ohm version actually measures 500 Ohm (per driver).
> 
> ...







I too have never had favorable results using a digital multimeter when testing higher impedance drivers over 150Ω. My 600Ω PureSounds were all over when testing with a DMM and even-more-so when using different DMMs, go figure! I would say that your PT2021 365Ω driver impedance is probably much closer to being 365Ω than to it's listed sensitivity rating of 110 dB/mW! I highly doubt the PT2021 365Ω are 110 as they were/are very hard to drive... I had simply figured that their sensitivity was much, much lower than listed... perhaps as low as the mid-to-low 90s.


----------



## DBaldock9

WoodyLuvr said:


> ​
> I too have never had favorable results using a digital multimeter when testing higher impedance drivers over 150Ω. My 600Ω PureSounds were all over when testing with a DMM and even-more-so when using different DMMs, go figure! I would say that your PT2021 365Ω driver impedance is probably much closer to being 365Ω than to it's listed sensitivity rating of 110 dB/mW! I highly doubt the PT2021 365Ω are 110 as they were/are very hard to drive... I had simply figured that their sensitivity was much, much lower than listed... perhaps as low as the mid-to-low 90s.



The quote is saying - "The DC resistance will nearly always be lower than the AC impedance." - but that seems to be different than your experience.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 11, 2021)

DBaldock9 said:


> The quote is saying - "The DC resistance will nearly always be lower than the AC impedance." - but that seems to be different than your experience.


If the headphones are *"more reactive"*. Less reactive may garner different results perhaps, though I am uncertain if I completely agree with the quote that I shared myself in all cases but I offered it as a possible explanation (as food for thought). What do you think? I am genuinely interested in this subject and think it quite relevant in helping us understand the wonky impedance nature of some earbuds as I don't believe it is always actual driver variance per say (as in literally different driver models being installed).

My experience has been all over, nothing consistent, when it comes to testing *higher impedance* drivers with a DMM. Lower impedance, yes they consistently test lower on a DMM by ~5 ohms which falls in line with the quote. I just wonder if at some point certain headphones/earphones of certain impedance value simply demand a more correct instrument (tool) to acquire an accurate and consistent measurement which was the secondary point I was offering. If I recall correctly you tested your Smabat ST-10s at 300Ω correct? Mine were close to 150Ω (I think they were in the 180s or 190s) but I also was starting to suspect their sensitivity rating was wrong. Though it was suspected that various drivers may have been used on the ST-10s production run so there is that... but what if it is simply due to fact that certain higher impedance drivers are harder to test than others?

I guess the main point concerning the PT2021 is that it may just be one of these wonky earbuds that are difficult to test and although it's impedance may or may not be higher than 365Ω (it may in fact be 500Ω) it's listed (spec'd.) sensitivity rating of 110 dB/mW seems to me to be a highly suspect value more than impedance... unfortunately, that sensitivity value is much harder to test and ascertain even with the most sophisticated equipment .


----------



## DBaldock9

WoodyLuvr said:


> If the headphones are *"more reactive"*. Less reactive may garner different results perhaps, though I am uncertain if I completely agree with the quote that I shared myself but I offered it as a possible explanation (as food for thought). What do you think? I am genuinely interested in this subject and think it quite relevant in helping us understand the wonky nature of some earbud drivers.
> 
> My experience has been all over, nothing consistent, when it comes to testing higher impedance drivers with a DMM. At some point certain headphones/earphones of certain impedance value require a more correct instrument (tool) to acquire an accurate and consistent measurement which was the secondary point I was offering. What has been your experience? Have you any strange earbud driver readings to share?
> 
> I guess the main point concerning the PT2021 is that it may just be one of these wonky headphones that are difficult to test and although it's impedance may or may not be higher than 365Ω (it may in fact be 500Ω) it's listed (spec'd.) sensitivity rating of 110 dB/mW seems to me to be a highly suspect value more than impedance... unfortunately, that sensitivity value is much harder to test and ascertain even with the most sophisticated equipment .



As an Electronics Technician, and without having done any actual AC impedance testing of loudspeaker (or earbud) drivers, I would generally expect dynamic drivers to act like the quote from your post - with the DC resistance nearly always being lower than the AC impedance.  Mainly because a voice coil in a dynamic driver is an inductor, and its impedance goes higher as the signal frequency goes up from 0-Hz (DC).

Pretty much all of my earbuds, except the Smabat ST-10s (Gold/Black), have measured their advertised DC resistance values with an Ohmmeter.
I haven't got any test equipment to measure the AC impedance.
My collection has models with resistances ranging from 16-Ω to 650-Ω.
When I bought the Smabat ST-10s (Gold/Black), the different websites had different resistances listed - I saw both 120-Ω & 150-Ω, but mine actually measure 300-Ω (with two different Ohmmeters).  That's measuring directly to the MMCX center pin, without using an earbud cable.


----------



## cdsa35000

Just found the endgames:
JCALLY EP05 and JC10.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/jcally-ep05-jc10-endgame-16-worth-1000.959655/


----------



## rprodrigues

@WoodyLuvr @DBaldock9

I always assumed that the advertised impedance of the drivers are actually DC resistances. That would be weird to use AC (or even total) impedance since it may be a non-constant (and non-linear) measure, as already pointed out by you.

This is the first time that I found such a huge mismatch  between advertised and actual resistances.

From what I already know, @FranQL also measure a DC resistance of 500 Ohm for his "365 Ohm".  If I'm not wrong,  @vygas has pointed out that it is possible that the total DC resistance for the pt2021 is due to a series resistor on its PCB.

I asked the seller and will report back when I get the answer (if any).


----------



## mervindc146

cdsa35000 said:


> Just found the endgames:
> JCALLY EP05 and JC10.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/jcally-ep05-jc10-endgame-16-worth-1000.959655/


I heard that EP01 sounded awfully metallic, how do they compare against them and other tried and test entry-level earbuds like tingo tc200 and qian39?


----------



## uneri (Sep 19, 2021)

‎


----------



## cdsa35000

uneri said:


> My two cents on the JCALLY earbuds I've heard:
> 
> EP01 is just awful. Sounds like there's only bass & treble, and the mids are just missing. Very hollow sounding.
> EP02 is slightly better than EP01, but still not worth buying even if it's cheap.
> ...


Yes, you much nailed it, EP05/JC10 use Bio-cel-fibre composite diag. like the FOSTEX TH series.


----------



## cdsa35000

mervindc146 said:


> I heard that EP01 sounded awfully metallic, how do they compare against them and other tried and test entry-level earbuds like tingo tc200 and qian39?


EP05/JC10 use Bio-cel-fibre composite diag. like the FOSTEX TH series, thats the standouts over others.


----------



## mervindc146

uneri said:


> My two cents on the JCALLY earbuds I've heard:
> 
> EP01 is just awful. Sounds like there's only bass & treble, and the mids are just missing. Very hollow sounding.
> EP02 is slightly better than EP01, but still not worth buying even if it's cheap.
> ...


Thanks for the input. I have avoided JCALLY products since a year ago when a cable arrived to me with faulty right connection. Opened it up and apparently the solder came lose. I guess QC issues plagued the company much like other chifi stores.

I will consider buying EP09 since they are  still on the budget segment. But for now, I have my eyes on the Kube and S300.


----------



## Ronion

I just decided to try less dense VE foams on my Earbuds Anon Earbuds…. Definitely made them more balanced!  This are a bargain in the bud world really, which is a world of bargains to begin with.


----------



## mervindc146

Ronion said:


> I just decided to try less dense VE foams on my Earbuds Anon Earbuds…. Definitely made them more balanced!  This are a bargain in the bud world really, which is a world of bargains to begin with.


Ooh, I've always wanted to buy Earbuds Anon. There was one for sale on fb marketplace weeks ago but unfortunately somebody grabbed it before I do. Do you happen to know where I can get some for sale?


----------



## Ronion

https://penonaudio.com/earbuds-anonymous.html

Use Code PA669988 for 50% off unless you prefer to pay full price.


----------



## Chessnaudio

Ronion said:


> I just decided to try less dense VE foams on my Earbuds Anon Earbuds…. Definitely made them more balanced!  This are a bargain in the bud world really, which is a world of bargains to begin with.


Gotta to try that. The treble just needs a touch of taming for me. It has plenty of midbass. It makes a nice contrast to my LBBS


----------



## Chessnaudio

As an aside, what is the LBBS equivalent in the headphone world ( without eq)?


----------



## Mr.HiAudio (Sep 14, 2021)

Hello!

I design and made a shell for mx500 driver  with mmcx connectors. 

Link for .stl 3D Print : https://cloud.mail.ru/public/XAte/Lj8RKy5Zh

My resilts after 3D Print:


Spoiler



















Will be added a version with 2pin connectors (soon)


----------



## Dany1

Sorry, i know this is an Earbud thread.  But i must ask, since i'm about to buy a Ifi Zen Dac V2. 

Has anyone used both Fiio BTR5 and Ifi Zen Dac V1 or V2 with earbuds ? Do you think Ifi Zen dac is a worthy upgrade over BTR5 solely for using earbuds and iems ?  Would it have better technicalities, soundstage and dynamics ?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Dany1 said:


> Sorry, i know this is an Earbud thread.  But i must ask, since i'm about to buy a Ifi Zen Dac V2.
> 
> Has anyone used both Fiio BTR5 and Ifi Zen Dac V1 or V2 with earbuds ? Do you think Ifi Zen dac is a worthy upgrade over BTR5 solely for using earbuds and iems ?  Would it have better technicalities, soundstage and dynamics ?


The Zen dac isnt that much more powerful than the BTR5. Not sure if its worth it for you to get it.


----------



## Dany1

RikudouGoku said:


> The Zen dac isnt that much more powerful than the BTR5. Not sure if its worth it for you to get it.


I meant for the sound quality alone. Would it be worth it over BTR5 ?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Dany1 said:


> I meant for the sound quality alone. Would it be worth it over BTR5 ?


Dont know, dont have them. 

But with amps more power (and lower output impedance) is usually better.


----------



## RikudouGoku

new iris ancestor color.


And this 







https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003182124346.html

Is it the SL 1.0?
Since they have this in the description as well.


----------



## fonkepala

Dany1 said:


> Sorry, i know this is an Earbud thread.  But i must ask, since i'm about to buy a Ifi Zen Dac V2.
> 
> Has anyone used both Fiio BTR5 and Ifi Zen Dac V1 or V2 with earbuds ? Do you think Ifi Zen dac is a worthy upgrade over BTR5 solely for using earbuds and iems ?  Would it have better technicalities, soundstage and dynamics ?


I have no issues and am happy with using my Zen Dac V1 for my earbuds, iems & cans. I don't have the BTR5 but I do have its contemporary the Qudelix 5K. Both the Zen Dac & the Q5K bring different things to the table. FWIW, I use them in in different circumstances so I see no reason to pit one against the other. Hope this helps.


----------



## chavez

New Ancestors colors arrived today 😁.


----------



## fonkepala

chavez said:


> New Ancestors colors arrived today 😁.


Interesting. The one on the left is sort of a 'smoked' coloured shell? I see it is quite different than the typical opaque one on the right.


----------



## forestitalia

Being newby in this 'hole', I decided to listen some historic model, Monk Plus arrived 
I like them quite a lot, especially the comfort, small and very light. But not so easy to drive how I'd preferred.


----------



## chavez

fonkepala said:


> Interesting. The one on the left is sort of a 'smoked' coloured shell? I see it is quite different than the typical opaque one on the right.



It kinda feels hollow. I guess plastic is thinner since its see thru. Red shell feels much more heavier and solid.


----------



## chavez

forestitalia said:


> Being newby in this 'hole', I decided to listen some historic model, Monk Plus arrived
> I like them quite a lot, especially the comfort, small and very light. But not so easy to drive how I'd preferred.



For start get the RY4S plus. Anything bellow it is not worth the spend if you dont want to collect stuff. Ancestors are the best bang uo to the RY4S Plus i would say.


----------



## Ronion

Chessnaudio said:


> As an aside, what is the LBBS equivalent in the headphone world ( without eq)?


I don’t know, but the SMABAT Super One driver in the M2s Pro with the type 1 filter and Venture Electronic foams is the HD650 In truth.  It’s remarkable how close they are.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 14, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> new iris ancestor color.
> 
> 
> And this
> ...


Perhaps some new variant of the *Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0 Plus (64Ω; aka 1.0+) *or literally a new model called Faaeal 64 Heavy Bass???


----------



## forestitalia

chavez said:


> For start get the RY4S plus. Anything bellow it is not worth the spend if you dont want to collect stuff. Ancestors are the best bang uo to the RY4S Plus i would say.


I can try, not much stuff come in Europe easily.
Are the RY4S plus 300 ohm?


----------



## SolaVirtus

forestitalia said:


> I can try, not much stuff come in Europe easily.
> Are the RY4S plus 300 ohm?


I don't think so. If I recall the plus is 32ohm, and the RY4S 300ohm is a different model. Just my opinion, but both are good! Certainly considering price/performance.


----------



## n00b

Ronion said:


> I don’t know, but the SMABAT Super One driver in the M2s Pro with the type 1 filter and Venture Electronic foams is the HD650 In truth.  It’s remarkable how close they are.


Is the Type 1 filter the standard filter hte M2s Pro shells come with? I switched the Super One into my old M2s Pro shells where I didn't remove the filter and it has grown on me. I gave it the new Fiio LC-RC cable as well. Because the fit is so good when worn over ear with the new cable, I find myself listening to it more than even the Bell Ti Plus. It definitely doesn't beat it in any regard, but it has grown on me. It's really enjoyable. I think the brighter response just makes things sound a bit more lively and detailed. Bass is just as good as the other drivers. One interesting thing is vocal presentation: I thought the mids were 'recessed' in terms of volume but I think it's more about their spatial positioning. The vocals on M2s Pro Super One sound like they're in my head, which may or may not be your cup of tea. LBBS they sound in front of me, and 150 ohm golden driver M2S Pro sound laid back, like almost behind me.

Maybe I was too quick to write off the Super One, maybe it just takes some time to get used to, maybe people need to experiment rolling filters and foams and cables and wear positions.. but overall I would recommend them. Just note the value isn't quite as good as stock m2s pro or LBBS. But it's a hell of a lot better than the actual Super One model at $300.


----------



## chavez

forestitalia said:


> I can try, not much stuff come in Europe easily.
> Are the RY4S plus 300 ohm?


As Sola said, Plus is 32 Ohm. 300 is different version.


----------



## Carrow

Got a pair of VE Zen Omega Edition inbound from Lee. Small restock; I don't know if they're OG or 2.0 but they come with a Black Litz cable. I can't wait to hear what all the fuss is about.


----------



## mervindc146

WoodyLuvr said:


> Perhaps some new variant of the *Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0 Plus (64Ω; aka 1.0+) *or literally a new model called Faaeal 64 Heavy Bass???


I think it's the same SL just a different colorway.


----------



## Ronion (Sep 14, 2021)

n00b said:


> Is the Type 1 filter the standard filter hte M2s Pro shells come with? I switched the Super One into my old M2s Pro shells where I didn't remove the filter and it has grown on me. I gave it the new Fiio LC-RC cable as well. Because the fit is so good when worn over ear with the new cable, I find myself listening to it more than even the Bell Ti Plus. It definitely doesn't beat it in any regard, but it has grown on me. It's really enjoyable. I think the brighter response just makes things sound a bit more lively and detailed. Bass is just as good as the other drivers. One interesting thing is vocal presentation: I thought the mids were 'recessed' in terms of volume but I think it's more about their spatial positioning. The vocals on M2s Pro Super One sound like they're in my head, which may or may not be your cup of tea. LBBS they sound in front of me, and 150 ohm golden driver M2S Pro sound laid back, like almost behind me.
> 
> Maybe I was too quick to write off the Super One, maybe it just takes some time to get used to, maybe people need to experiment rolling filters and foams and cables and wear positions.. but overall I would recommend them. Just note the value isn't quite as good as stock m2s pro or LBBS. But it's a hell of a lot better than the actual Super One model at $300.


I think it is the type 1 filter that comes in it but I'm not sure.  In my experience, that filter sounds the best with all the drivers and shells I've tried.  I'm not sure which driver I really prefer because I only have one M2s pro shell and it takes too much time to switch it all around to be really sure.  In truth I probably could do it fast enough, but I'm afraid of breaking something.  The M2s Pro shell is all sold out at the moment.  I should add that the SMABAT do have deeper bass than the 650.

Does anyone know what effect on the filtering double stacking the filters would have?  @furyossa might be the best source for this.


----------



## assassin10000

Ronion said:


> Does anyone know what effect on the filtering double stacking the filters would have?  @furyossa might be the best source for this.


Reduces lower mids and increases upper mids/lower treble.


----------



## SkyfireAbove

Looking for my first pair of earbuds since the apple ones I had years ago. 

Something cheapish ($10-30/50)

*Headphones I like:*
- Soundmagic E10 (prefer the tips with the wider opening/hole)
- Creative Aurvana Live

Based on graphs I've looked at it, it seems like I want around +5db bass with recessed upper-mids/lower-treble (2-5k)

*Like, but not as much as the above: *
- Koss Porta Pro

*Don't like: *
- Audio Technica M40x (piercing upper treble)
- Sennheiser HD598 (too little bass / too much upper mids + treble / too spaced-out)


----------



## RikudouGoku

SkyfireAbove said:


> Looking for my first pair of earbuds since the apple ones I had years ago.
> 
> Something cheapish ($10-30/50)
> 
> ...


Yincrow X6


----------



## WoodyLuvr

SkyfireAbove said:


> Looking for my first pair of earbuds since the apple ones I had years ago.
> 
> Something cheapish ($10-30/50)
> 
> ...





RikudouGoku said:


> Yincrow X6


A great recommendation.

If you desire more in depth earbud recommendations the following data is extremely helpful:

_*source* (using a DAC/AMP/DAP/PC/smartphone/streamer; audio file type including bit & sample rate)_
_*preferred connection* (termination type e.g. 3.5SE/4.4TRRS/2.5mm; single-end vs balanced; mic/no mic)_
_*listening level & time* (volume, and for how long?)_
_*listening environment* (mobile/office desk/home desktop/listening room)_
_*preferred sound signature* (bright; flat/neutral; balanced/natural/smooth; dark/warm; extra bass/bassy; L/U/V-shaped)_
_*preferred genre* (rock, heavy metal, pop, classical, OST, hip-hop, R&B, Korean-Pop, EDM, podcasts, audiobooks, etc.)_
_*preferred shell type* (depends on your ears and personal comfort; please see *here*)_
_*preferred brand* (applicable if asking for a specific model recommendation within a single brand family)_
_*price range *(probably the most important; what are you willing/looking to spend?)_
_*any special need, consideration, and/or request*_


----------



## n00b

M2s Pro with the new FiiO LC-RC cable matches really well imo


----------



## axhng

Had these (K's Earphone K300 & Qigom White Lotus S300) for quite a while now, but haven't really had the chance to really enjoy them since even my LG V50 didn't seem quite enough to drive these to a good enough level. It didn't really make sense for me to spend more money on a more powerful source just for 2 cheap earbuds since I don't like headphones, and most of the IEMs and earbuds I like are fairly easy to drive. 

Got a JCALLY JM10 recently, and finally started to enjoy these a bit more... well, at least one of them. K300 has a warm neutral tuning with fairly good technicalities all round, and is quite enjoyable to listen to. S300 is... just warm and thick with a lot of mid bass and lower mids, not much upper mids or treble (not sure if i have a faulty pair or maybe it still needs even more power to shine?). Not sure if both of them still have room to scale, but at least with the JM10, I find myself using the K300 a lot more often these day.


----------



## uneri (Sep 19, 2021)

‎


----------



## axhng

uneri said:


> I have both the K300 & S300 too, and yes, even on a desktop amp, the S300 sounds like what you've described - thick midcentric and laidback sound.
> Despite both being rated at 300ohm, the K300 & S300 are actually relatively easy to drive, probably because they share the same high sensitivity rating (108dB).
> 
> Someone actually did a review & comparison between these two pairs, and have pretty much the same impressions on the S300 as well
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3232#post-15735514


Thanks for the link, missed that post previously! Good to know it wouldn't benefit more from anything more powerful than that!


----------



## uneri (Sep 19, 2021)

‎


----------



## WoodyLuvr

uneri said:


> Was just browsing on AE, and noticed this Yinman 150 ohm listing has been updated with a second option:
> 
> *Qing Niu aka Green Bull*, an entry level release earlier this year from Longyao Yinman (first photo taken from Taobao)
> 
> ...


Nice mini-review. Yes, they have had some nice earbuds but they tend (can) be very music genre specific in their tuning. The DR09 specifically is an astounding earbud and thus why I placed it on my *God-Tier List*.

2019 - 龙谣音曼 Longyao (Dragon Ballad) Yinman DR08 (32Ω & 150Ω)​*2021 - 龙谣音曼 Longyao (Dragon Ballad) Yinman DR09 (32Ω)*​2021 - 龙谣音曼 Longyao (Dragon Ballad) Yinman 青牛 Qing Niu (Green Bull) Edition (32Ω & 150Ω)​


----------



## baskingshark

uneri said:


> Was just browsing on AE, and noticed this Yinman 150 ohm listing has been updated with a second option:
> 
> *Qing Niu aka Green Bull*, an entry level release earlier this year from Longyao Yinman (first photo taken from Taobao)
> 
> ...



Thanks for the update.

I think I remember a few folks saying they tried some Yinman models. They were good on reviews generally, but some reported QC issues (cause probably they were old stock for many years in the warehouse)?
Not sure if some older gear can suffer from loose glue/soldering etc?


----------



## iFi audio

Dany1 said:


> I meant for the sound quality alone. Would it be worth it over BTR5 ?



Someone here on HF recently cmpared them. I can't recall where it was exactly, but HF's search engine might help.



RikudouGoku said:


> But with amps more power (and lower output impedance) is usually better.



I agree on low output impedance, but power is relative to a given load. IEMs don't need much and many sound great


----------



## re23071998

currently eyeing on the pmv pp (found here for $110)
any earbuds recommendations for around that same price?
i listen to 2000-2010 rocks and some metals.
soundstage is the main priority 😁


----------



## KutuzovGambit (Sep 18, 2021)

I have posted my review of the ISN Rambo II: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/isn-rambo-ii.24542/review/26820/

Not the cheapest at $69, but nevertheless an outstanding earbud that is in my opinion an analog of the HD650 in earbud form.


----------



## fonkepala

KutuzovGambit said:


> I have posted my review of the ISN Rambo II: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/isn-rambo-ii.24542/review/26820/
> 
> A bit pricy (at $69) compared to the plethora of cheap earbuds with excellent sound quality, but nevertheless an outstanding earbud that is in my opinion an analog of the HD650 in earbud form.


How's the fit of the Rambo II for you? I have its sibling, the Hessian Ansata, and it keeps wanting to fall right out of my ears.


----------



## Ronion

re23071998 said:


> currently eyeing on the pmv pp (found here for $110)
> any earbuds recommendations for around that same price?
> i listen to 2000-2010 rocks and some metals.
> soundstage is the main priority 😁


SMABAT M2s pro with 150 Ohm driver or the Super One driver.  A bit cheaper, but a very good bud with an above average soundstage.


----------



## KutuzovGambit

fonkepala said:


> How's the fit of the Rambo II for you? I have its sibling, the Hessian Ansata, and it keeps wanting to fall right out of my ears.


If worn straight down the fit is poor, but if it's angled so the stem rests between the tragus and antitragus and the bottom of the stem rests against my neck, fit is very good.


----------



## DBaldock9

Currently enjoying CD quality streaming of the *Vishtèn* (French-Canadian folk music group from Prince Edward Island and the Magdalen Islands) album _Terre Rouge,_ from Qobuz, listening to my Wong Kuan Wae "Blur 266 MX150" (150-Ω, 2.5mm TRRS) earbuds.  Signal Path:
.
Onkyo DP-X1B DAP (UAPP / Qobuz - Bit Perfect) [Balanced] -> [Balanced] S.M.S.L. sAp-9 Amp [Balanced] -> MX150 earbuds
.
https://www.qobuz.com/us-en/album/terre-rouge-vishten/s46up7uoswvfa


----------



## re23071998

Ronion said:


> SMABAT M2s pro with 150 Ohm driver or the Super One driver.  A bit cheaper, but a very good bud with an above average soundstage.


are they comparable to say, rose masya? in terms of stage?


----------



## re23071998

n00b said:


> The vocals on M2s Pro Super One sound like they're in my head, which may or may not be your cup of tea.


oh i just found this, probably a skip then.
dont like such vocal presentation.


----------



## chaiyuta

n00b said:


> M2s Pro with the new FiiO LC-RC cable matches really well imo


This looks very nice. How about SQ improvement in your thought over the stock one?


----------



## n00b

i buy cables for aesthetics or balanced termination, i dont really think my ears can tell a difference in sound


----------



## Ronion

re23071998 said:


> oh i just found this, probably a skip then.
> dont like such vocal presentation.


I haven’t found that to be the case for me at all.  In fact SMABAT has the largest soundstage I’ve heard in a bud.  I think the way these things fit in an individual’s ear plays a role in soundstage.


----------



## re23071998

Ronion said:


> I haven’t found that to be the case for me at all.  In fact SMABAT has the largest soundstage I’ve heard in a bud.  I think the way these things fit in an individual’s ear plays a role in soundstage.


i see.
have you tried rose's stuff?


----------



## rprodrigues

DBaldock9 said:


> Currently enjoying CD quality streaming of the *Vishtèn* (French-Canadian folk music group from Prince Edward Island and the Magdalen Islands) album _Terre Rouge,_ from Qobuz, listening to my Wong Kuan Wae "Blur 266 MX150" (150-Ω, 2.5mm TRRS) earbuds.  Signal Path:
> .
> Onkyo DP-X1B DAP (UAPP / Qobuz - Bit Perfect) [Balanced] -> [Balanced] S.M.S.L. sAp-9 Amp [Balanced] -> MX150 earbuds
> .
> https://www.qobuz.com/us-en/album/terre-rouge-vishten/s46up7uoswvfa



I listened to the samples. 
They remind me of  The Corrs.


----------



## n00b

re23071998 said:


> oh i just found this, probably a skip then.
> dont like such vocal presentation.


To clarify I meant that only in my informal brief unscientific comparisons to other earbuds. It is leagues ahead in soundstage relative to my more expensive IEMs and lower tier buds. I still highly enjoy and recommend them. Don’t take that to mean they sound congested because they dont


----------



## fonkepala

I’m curious: does anyone else here have the Hessian Ansata (OG, non-Pro version)? Reply or PM me if you do. I’d like to make some comparisons and find out if it’s my ears or something else entirely.


----------



## forestitalia

Now we are going somewhere, this is the minimum 'sort of' portable.
Those Smabat are difficult to drive just as Sennheiser hd800.


----------



## Ronion

re23071998 said:


> i see.
> have you tried rose's stuff?


Unfortunately I haven’t, but I am willing to try


----------



## DBaldock9

rprodrigues said:


> I listened to the samples.
> They remind me of  The Corrs.



I also like the *Corrs*. Most of their music that I've heard, has more of a pop/rock sound - but they do perform some traditional Irish tunes.
.
The one thing I find unique about the French-Canadian groups, is their use of "foot" percussion.
*Le Vent du Nord* is another group (all guys) that play French-Canadian folk music. There's at least one concert video on the Shrewsbury Folk Festival YouTube channel.


----------



## waynes world

Nool said:


> you already have apple earpods, or airpods? the airpods are pretty good, easily the best tuned buds out of everything in my signature. they're more resolving than the yincrow rw9/x6, but the yincrows have more audible bass.
> 
> Id buy the yincrow rw9, same as the X6 but with a more warm- neutral tuning, whereas the x6 is just warm. rw9 has better tuned, tighter bass imo. timbre and resolution is pretty much the same for both.



The only good thing about my X6's breaking (after approx 4 months of continuous use - I like them that much) is that it prompted me to stuff the rw9's back into my ears. Love those suckers.


----------



## axhng (Sep 18, 2021)

axhng said:


> Had these (K's Earphone K300 & Qigom White Lotus S300) for quite a while now, but haven't really had the chance to really enjoy them since even my LG V50 didn't seem quite enough to drive these to a good enough level. It didn't really make sense for me to spend more money on a more powerful source just for 2 cheap earbuds since I don't like headphones, and most of the IEMs and earbuds I like are fairly easy to drive.
> 
> Got a JCALLY JM10 recently, and finally started to enjoy these a bit more... well, at least one of them. K300 has a warm neutral tuning with fairly good technicalities all round, and is quite enjoyable to listen to. S300 is... just warm and thick with a lot of mid bass and lower mids, not much upper mids or treble (not sure if i have a faulty pair or maybe it still needs even more power to shine?). Not sure if both of them still have room to scale, but at least with the JM10, I find myself using the K300 a lot more often these day.


so a bit of an update to this post. I flashed the JM10 with Sonata BHD V2.0 firmware so instead of doing their "dynamic self-adaptive" output, it now seems to just do fixed max output. I'm not sure exactly how many levels/steps or how fine adjustments it was originally able to do, but after flashing the update and with it running full power all the time, I think the White Lotus S300 now sounds better. Still warm and thick, but the bass seems a bit tighter, mids seems more forward, and upper mids and treble seems to have improved as well. I can't quite A/B test since there is no way to easily revert the firmware and I'm not going to buy another one just to test this, but I distinctly remember the upper frequencies sounding a bit lacking when running the S300 on JM10 (stock firmware) through a tone generator. But with the JM10 (with BHD firmware), it seems better now. K300 on the other hand still sounds somewhat similar to me, and it's still a bit cleaner and leaner sounding. So now i think both are pretty nice in their own way, at least if you don't factor in their prices. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Ronion

A thought occurred to me and I just wanted to throw this out here: if you are dissatisfied with the tonality of the buds you have purchased, it is so easy to change the balance.  For instance, if your buds are too bright, try HeiGi foams.  If your buds are too dull, check out VE foams.  If those are too extreme, there are plenty in the middle.  I can tune about any bud to sound close (enough) to my 650 just by changing foams.  In the case of the SMABAT, they can become a fairly similar sound but with deeper bass with the right filter and foam combo.  _Maybe the best thing About earbuds is how easy and cheap they are to tune_.  You look at how much trouble it is to tweak IEMs or any kind of Princess Leah looking Can.  There’s just nothing as cheap and easy to tweak as buds.  Especially if you are concerned with consistency.  On ear earphones would be as easy, but there are nowhere near the selection of foams and they generally cost more(though still doable).  Changing pads on cans is COSTLY.  Almost every pad change costs as much as a nice set of buds.  If you’re not tweaking your buds to match your preferences, you are missing out.  Simple as that.


----------



## re23071998

yea, i could also play around with tuning cottons


----------



## baskingshark

Ronion said:


> A thought occurred to me and I just wanted to throw this out here: if you are dissatisfied with the tonality of the buds you have purchased, it is so easy to change the balance.  For instance, if your buds are too bright, try HeiGi foams.  If your buds are too dull, check out VE foams.  If those are too extreme, there are plenty in the middle.  I can tune about any bud to sound close (enough) to my 650 just by changing foams.  In the case of the SMABAT, they can become a fairly similar sound but with deeper bass with the right filter and foam combo.  _Maybe the best thing About earbuds is how easy and cheap they are to tune_.  You look at how much trouble it is to tweak IEMs or any kind of Princess Leah looking Can.  There’s just nothing as cheap and easy to tweak as buds.  Especially if you are concerned with consistency.  On ear earphones would be as easy, but there are nowhere near the selection of foams and they generally cost more(though still doable).  Changing pads on cans is COSTLY.  Almost every pad change costs as much as a nice set of buds.  If you’re not tweaking your buds to match your preferences, you are missing out.  Simple as that.



Speaking of Heigi foams, does anyone know the cheapest place to get em from?

I am fast running out of them!


----------



## zeinharis

Playing around with the EQ for ME80 and this settings produces a more musical yet retains its details.


----------



## sutosuto

baskingshark said:


> Speaking of Heigi foams, does anyone know the cheapest place to get em from?
> 
> I am fast running out of them!


I got from Jietu on Shopee for S$3-4 last week


----------



## fonkepala

baskingshark said:


> Speaking of Heigi foams, does anyone know the cheapest place to get em from?
> 
> I am fast running out of them!


I haven't tried Hiegi foams before. Might pick up some. Do the white color foams discolor/stain easily?


----------



## baskingshark

fonkepala said:


> I haven't tried Hiegi foams before. Might pick up some. Do the white color foams discolor/stain easily?



Yes the white ones stain easily unfortunately. They pick all sorts of crap and turn brownish after a while and look a bit unhygenic. 

The irony is that the black ones are probably just as dirty, just that we can't see it haha.


----------



## chinmie

baskingshark said:


> Yes the white ones stain easily unfortunately. They pick all sorts of crap and turn brownish after a while and look a bit unhygenic.
> 
> The irony is that the black ones are probably just as dirty, just that we can't see it haha.



i try to make a habit of washing my earbud foams in light shampoo/soap each time i feel (or smell  ) they're dirty. same goes to my IEM eartips too


----------



## baskingshark

chinmie said:


> i try to make a habit of washing my earbud foams in light shampoo/soap each time i feel (or smell  ) they're dirty. same goes to my IEM eartips too



Well foam covers and foam eartips are in general less durable than silicone tips/covers. They do have a shelf life in terms of use, before they tear or disintegrate, depends on the climate you are at too. Even if one washes them, they do wear out sooner or later.

Good thing is the foam covers are generally cheap, so replacement sets are relatively affordable.


----------



## shahrul5689

likeafranfran said:


> This JCALLY EP09 comes with a case or you bought separately?


hye bro, do you have ep05 and 08 too? i bought 05 1st, then 08 and lastly 09 out of compulsive order. I didnt found any review at all for them and reading your impression made my day, i use 09 with balanced nowdays and 08 for bluetooth; this earbuds never sound hollow like my iems and cheaper too!


----------



## Ronion

Another strategy would be to wash your ears occasionally.  I try to wash mine once a month wether they need it or not (joking).  

I do EQ my stuff as well, but I have to admit I find it elegant to just get it right in the first place.


----------



## fonkepala

baskingshark said:


> Yes the white ones stain easily unfortunately. They pick all sorts of crap and turn brownish after a while and look a bit unhygenic.
> 
> The irony is that the black ones are probably just as dirty, just that we can't see it haha.


Right. Thanks for the info. Black ones it is then.


----------



## Ronion

The only thing I dislike about having all black pads is the difficulty in discerning left and right when the lights are down low.  The Apple Pods alleviate that problem, but they sure don’t sound like high end buds.  All of them end up looking like my dog’s toe pads in the end anyway.  There’s merit in just starting out that way


----------



## 1clearhead

shahrul5689 said:


> hye bro, do you have ep05 and 08 too? i bought 05 1st, then 08 and lastly 09 out of compulsive order. I didnt found any review at all for them and reading your impression made my day, i use 09 with balanced nowdays and 08 for bluetooth; this earbuds never sound hollow like my iems and cheaper too!


Even though I have the EP05, I mostly wrote more impressions on the EP09. You can check out the links below...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16308003

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16309071

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16316946

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16327586

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16329574

-Clear


----------



## 1clearhead

shahrul5689 said:


> hye bro, do you have ep05 and 08 too? i bought 05 1st, then 08 and lastly 09 out of compulsive order. I didnt found any review at all for them and reading your impression made my day, i use 09 with balanced nowdays and 08 for bluetooth; this earbuds never sound hollow like my iems and cheaper too!


By the way, I don't have the EP08. How do they compare to the EP09?

Thanks in advance!

-Clear


----------



## chinmie

baskingshark said:


> Well foam covers and foam eartips are in general less durable than silicone tips/covers. They do have a shelf life in terms of use, before they tear or disintegrate, depends on the climate you are at too. Even if one washes them, they do wear out sooner or later.
> 
> Good thing is the foam covers are generally cheap, so replacement sets are relatively affordable.



indeed, most of my "no name" foams and those i got free from the earbuds usually deteriorated and crumbled like dust even in their plastic packages. 
The surprising exceptions are Hiegis and those thin "monk like" foams that i got from Aliexpress, those seem to last forever unless i got them ripped from usage


----------



## Cynical L

On the topic of tuning via foam/covers has any one tried the thick silicone rings by niceHCK?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100....store_pc_allProduct.8148356.1.46746360xuTkIc

They have a picture of them on mx500 shells and they appear to cover some of the driver holes, they also place the drivers physically further away than the 4x cheaper silicone rings everyone else sells.

I am interested because I just found out my everted anti tragus is not at all standard and that most of you are probably getting a better fit than my malformed ears are giving me. Yesterday I put 3 trig rain donut foams on to a mx500 shell to great success, getting secure enough that a very light tug on the cable doesn't cause it to lose seal in the top back part of the ear.


----------



## Ronion

chinmie said:


> indeed, most of my "no name" foams and those i got free from the earbuds usually deteriorated and crumbled like dust even in their plastic packages.
> The surprising exceptions are Hiegis and those thin "monk like" foams that i got from Aliexpress, those seem to last forever unless i got them ripped from usage


You don’t happen to have a link to the “Monk-like” foams?  I just ordered some from VE, and even though they are cheap, I am cheaper.


----------



## Hammerburst (Sep 20, 2021)

Hello,

I'm looking for an upgrade, from my current earbuds. They are the Audio Technica ATH-CM707. I enjoy these, but there could be room for improvement: Bass (no doubt), would love a bigger soundstage, and more treble sparkle, more treble quickness.

Have been browsing around, don't want to spend over $300. A few earbuds that interest me:

(1) VE Zen 2.0
(2) Shozy BK
(3) Smabat M0

Is the Shozy BK considered better than the VE Zen 2.0? Well, if anyone here, can give me a good recommendation? I like balanced sound signatures, (think Sennheiser HD 600, with more Bass and Sub-Bass ). Although I have really enjoyed V-Shaped and U-shaped, headphones/iems, in the past as well.


----------



## Ronion (Sep 20, 2021)

Maybe get the M2s pro shell with the 150 Ohm driver.  If you have mmcx cables, it's probably the cheapest way to get a flagship-esque sound.  You can do it with the M0 as well, but it's trickier.

If you want to spend more and still be comfortably under $300, look into Blur headphones.  There are even a couple on sale in the classifieds here on Head Fi.  You can also contact Wong through FaceBook.  Be prepared for the best audio you have heard.


----------



## Hammerburst

Ronion said:


> Maybe get the M2s pro shell with the 150 Ohm driver.  If you have mmcx cables, it's probably the cheapest way to get a flagship-esque sound.  You can do it with the M0 as well, but it's trickier.
> 
> If you want to spend more and still be comfortably under $300, look into Blur headphones.  There are even a couple on sale in the classifieds here on Head Fi.  You can also contact Wong through FaceBook.  Be prepared for the best audio you have heard.



Cool. I did look into both the Smabat M2s Pro, and the M0. Confused, on Aliexpress, I saw a 40Ω impedance, for the M2s pro, and a 20Ω impedance, for the M0. There is an M2s Pro version with 150Ω that sounds better than the standard one? Also a "Super driver" or something for the M2s Pro?

Another thing is, I haven't spent money, on smaller boutique brands, and Chi-Fi. In fact, some of it makes me nervous: Build Quality, long-term reliability, shills posting fake reviews, etc. Hence, most of my headphones/earphones are from Sony, Audio Technica, and JVC. Although it is clear, that the best sounding earbuds, are not coming from those three brands.


----------



## chinmie

Ronion said:


> You don’t happen to have a link to the “Monk-like” foams?  I just ordered some from VE, and even though they are cheap, I am cheaper.



here you go  
https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0FZAbl


----------



## baskingshark

Hammerburst said:


> Cool. I did look into both the Smabat M2s Pro, and the M0. Confused, on Aliexpress, I saw a 40Ω impedance, for the M2s pro, and a 20Ω impedance, for the M0. There is an M2s Pro version with 150Ω that sounds better than the standard one? Also a "Super driver" or something for the M2s Pro?
> 
> Another thing is, I haven't spent money, on smaller boutique brands, and Chi-Fi. In fact, some of it makes me nervous: Build Quality, long-term reliability, shills posting fake reviews, etc. Hence, most of my headphones/earphones are from Sony, Audio Technica, and JVC. Although it is clear, that the best sounding earbuds, are not coming from those three brands.



Yes the M2S Pro with 150 ohm driver sounds the best for my ears. Sounds pretty close to the more expensive Yincrow RW2000 but cheaper all in. But for the 150 ohm driver, you will need an amp, as the impedance suggests.

As for the Western brands and Japanese brands described above, it is an open secret that most of them are made or assembled in China, or at least use China parts. Actually if you look at the stuff you are wearing and the stationary and electronics you are using now, I'm pretty sure most of them are Chinese made.

FWIW, I've had QC issues with JVC and Audiotechnica and some western (Westone, Senheisser) audio gear. QC for CHIFI is a crap shoot, but they cost around 10 times cheaper than a boutique/western brand, so even in the worst case scenerio that a lemon comes in, it still isn't as painful as a western pricier set coming in with defects.


----------



## Ronion

On AliExpress they sell the shells and driver separately.  You can just buy the combo you want.  The one that’s easiest to recommend is the M2s Pro Shell with the 150 Ohm driver.  The 40 Ohm driver is still very good and in that flagships-like category.  That’s what you get when you buy the M2s Pro.


----------



## Hammerburst (Sep 21, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Yes the M2S Pro with 150 ohm driver sounds the best for my ears. Sounds pretty close to the more expensive Yincrow RW2000 but cheaper all in. But for the 150 ohm driver, you will need an amp, as the impedance suggests.
> 
> As for the Western brands and Japanese brands described above, it is an open secret that most of them are made or assembled in China, or at least use China parts. Actually if you look at the stuff you are wearing and the stationary and electronics you are using now, I'm pretty sure most of them are Chinese made.
> 
> FWIW, I've had QC issues with JVC and Audiotechnica and some western (Westone, Senheisser) audio gear. QC for CHIFI is a crap shoot, but they cost around 10 times cheaper than a boutique/western brand, so even in the worst case scenerio that a lemon comes in, it still isn't as painful as a western pricier set coming in with defects.



Sounds good, thanks for the input. I will definitely take a look into the M2S Pro, with the 150 ohm driver. I have a good amp, but it is a bit clunky and heavy. Yet it can do the job. A major purpose of these portable earbuds is the "on-the-go" aspect, of their form factor, (plugging it straight into your phone, laptop, etc). That's why I'm leaning toward something like the Shozy BK. Will have to consider my options.

Well, some of my Audio Technica stuff is from Japan, yet it is true, there is "Made in China", on some of my other AT items. Nevertheless, I have had very good experience, with Audio Technica products. In my experience, when AT releases stuff under their name, I have faith in it, from experience. Regardless of the region of manufacture. The Foremen in the Audio Technica factories, well they have a standard to uphold. Mistakes don't "just slide", on the conveyor belt, (at least I hope not), compared to these other, more "shifty" companies. The same applies to JVC and Sony, I simply have not had, more than two or three, build quality problems, among all three of them, put together. On the other hand, cheap headphones/earphones, less than ~$20, well one can expect a company to cut costs somewhere, I don't get upset about cheap products breaking.

I think it is a blanket statement, to say that Chi-Fi stuff, is 10 times cheaper than Western and Boutique brands. Some Chi-Fi stuff is quite expensive. The VE Zen 2.0 is ~$150, same story with the Shozy BK, both Chi-Fi products. People pay $300+ for Moondrop Blessing 2 iem's, and other products from Chinese companies. If I bought one of those, and it broke within 1 year, I'd be ticked off, no doubt. Well-made headphones/earphones, can last 10+ years, in the hands of a careful person, (which is what I like to consider myself). Yours truly would not be a "happy camper".


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Hammerburst said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm looking for an upgrade, from my current earbuds. They are the Audio Technica ATH-CM707. I enjoy these, but there could be room for improvement: Bass (no doubt), would love a bigger soundstage, and more treble sparkle, more treble quickness.
> 
> ...


Here is a list of currently available *god-tier earbuds* (many are under $300).


Hammerburst said:


> Cool. I did look into both the Smabat M2s Pro, and the M0. Confused, on Aliexpress, I saw a 40Ω impedance, for the M2s pro, and a 20Ω impedance, for the M0. There is an M2s Pro version with 150Ω that sounds better than the standard one? Also a "Super driver" or something for the M2s Pro?
> 
> Another thing is, I haven't spent money, on smaller boutique brands, and Chi-Fi. In fact, some of it makes me nervous: Build Quality, long-term reliability, shills posting fake reviews, etc. Hence, most of my headphones/earphones are from Sony, Audio Technica, and JVC. Although it is clear, that the best sounding earbuds, are not coming from those three brands.


Blur are Singaporean; custom-made in Singapore. The offered combination of high quality build, superb customer-service, and excellent sound signature in my opinion has been unmatched by anything I have ever bought headphone/earphone wise over forty plus years... including all summit gear in which one or two of those criteria were grossly lacking (e.g. looked great but sounded like crap; sounded great but had serious QC issues; sounded great, superbly build but hurt like hell; sounded great but with minor QC issues and horrible customer service; etc.)


----------



## Ronion (Sep 21, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Blur are Singaporean; custom-made in Singapore. The offered combination of high quality build, superb customer-service, and excellent sound signature in my opinion has been unmatched by anything I have ever bought headphone/earphone wise over forty plus years... including all summit gear in which one or two of those criteria were grossly lacking (e.g. looked great but sounded like crap; sounded great but had serious QC issues; sounded great, superbly build but hurt like hell; sounded great but with minor QC issues and horrible customer service; etc.)


I may not have quite the experience you have, but my Blur PK32 are the best transducer I’ve heard.  My understanding is that there are more resolving Blur and I’m only slightly bothered by it  these easily beat all my former favorites of any and every typology.  I must say that the SMABAT sound great for the money with some tweaking.  The Blur PK32 also fit securely and comfortably AND are easily driven by anything.  My favorite with it is actually the Hidizs S8.  The SMABAT are comfortable, but not secure without shark fins (meaning no frisbee with Watson, but walking isn’t a problem) AND require something better than a 1v dongle.  The 40Ohm can do the dongle however.  That actually brings the cost of a Blur closer and the portability much better.  I’m certainly not knocking the SMABAT.  I enjoy them without question.  I also don’t regret spending the money on the Blur.  I’ve put some cheap foams on them that bring their tonality more similar to the HD650 and they didn’t lose any resolution but the deep end isn’t quite as deep.  It’s so easy to modify buds it almost makes me feel ashamed for doing it.  If I’m listening to electronic music, I can easily switch it back in about 4 seconds.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

n00b said:


> i buy cables for aesthetics or balanced termination, i dont really think my ears can tell a difference in sound


I think you mean your brain...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

baskingshark said:


> Speaking of Heigi foams, does anyone know the cheapest place to get em from?


I prefer VE Clan foams. ;P


----------



## emusic13 (Sep 22, 2021)

Anyone want to buy my Blur? $155 https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/155-obo-blur-173-mx150-ohm-aps-2-5mm.11257/
I'm including a free sealed Venture Electronics Monk SM now.


----------



## DBaldock9

baskingshark said:


> Speaking of Heigi foams, does anyone know the cheapest place to get em from?
> 
> I am fast running out of them!



Penon has packages of 6 pairs for $3.90 with Free Shipping (to the USA, at least).
https://penonaudio.com/hiegi-foam-cushions.html


----------



## RikudouGoku

Just noticed that its been almost 2 months since I got the LBBS and I havent bought any new buds since then....guess it might really be my endgame bud.


----------



## emusic13

RikudouGoku said:


> Just noticed that its been almost 2 months since I got the LBBS and I havent bought any new buds since then....guess it might really be my endgame bud.


I just received one and I agree, its quite good. I wont nitpick it since at $30 on sale, it's a bargain


----------



## RikudouGoku

emusic13 said:


> I just received one and I agree, its quite good. I wont nitpick it since at $30 on sale, it's a bargain


30 usd is a damn steal for it.


----------



## 0b0d0

Is this Rose Technics' model the one previously called Maxim ?


----------



## Buchi

I received my M2s Pro body and Super Point driver today. Coming from Faaeal Rosemary I can say it's very bright, more analytical and the stage is wider. Both are well driven from my Shanling UA2.
The trebble and sub bass are similar to my Tin T2 but in earbud form. Using full foam tamed the trebble and brought it a more enjoyable form. I can't experiment with donut foam as I don't have any now. In the coming days I will experiment with the tunning dampers as I ordered it too. 

I don't know all the technical jargon to give a detailed review of what I hear but the differences between it and Rosemary were too stark to miss. I'm happy with it even though the whole set up costs more than 4 times the price of Rosemary.


----------



## Buchi

emusic13 said:


> I just received one and I agree, its quite good. I wont nitpick it since at $30 on sale, it's a bargain


Is the Bell LBs on AliExpress same as Bell LBBS? I can't seem to find the LBBS, if it's the same earbud, what is the difference between the Bell LB and LBs?


----------



## emusic13

Buchi said:


> Is the Bell LBs on AliExpress same as Bell LBBS? I can't seem to find the LBBS, if it's the same earbud, what is the difference between the Bell LB and LBs?


Im pretty sure LBs is same as LBBS. Maybe we've all just gotten used to calling it that? Little Bell bs (LBbs)?
I think its a tuning difference, havent tried LB.


----------



## shenshen

Buchi said:


> Is the Bell LBs on AliExpress same as Bell LBBS? I can't seem to find the LBBS, if it's the same earbud, what is the difference between the Bell LB and LBs?


Yep, that's correct. As far as I can tell, it's a tuning difference, but the general consensus is that the LBs is leaps and bounds better than the LB.


----------



## uneri (Nov 11, 2021)

‎


----------



## assassin10000

uneri said:


> LBBs (Little Black Bell S) is the upgraded version from the regular Little Black Bell models (Black with mic & White no mic).
> LBBs has a better driver + cable, and is the best sounding one out of the three.
> 
> Yes, LBBs is being mostly listed as "BellLBs no mic" or "BellLBs Black no mic" on AE.
> ...



That and sound signature. The older LB/LBB is a warm, smooth but still detailed sound signature. 

The LBBs is a more V-shaped signature that doesn't go too far in its upper mid/lower treble boost.


The LBBs is also available as 'white' with a plated cable or with mic which has a black cable sans the braiding. I bought the mic version last sale for about $25 iirc.

No audible or measurable difference in sound w/mic, when I checked it.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 23, 2021)

0b0d0 said:


> Is this Rose Technics' model the one previously called Maxim ?


Good catch! I didn't even know this model was falling so soon though no specs are provided and it appears to be pre-order (?). Strange that these are not showing up on Rose Technics official store on Taobao or on Penon... perhaps only a marketing feeler??? I also see they are playing with their name again: losing the "s" so now Rose Technic... dropping the "nics" entirely for ROSETECH which they have been playing around with for some time... and also introducing a completely new variation "Weak Water Technology". But all still using the same old logo. They did this before when they changed from Rose Technology to Rose Technics back in 2017 upon launching the *Maysa* and the *Mojito "Red/Blue" Limited Edition* maybe a name change is in the works again.

The *Rose Martini* is a different model, though most definitely playing on the same 'tuning pipe' design theme as the Maxim "*referencing classic Japanese design elements*"; price looks to be around USD$117. Looks to be a scaled, more mobile, version of the Maxim with shorter stem (tuning pipes).

The *'Maxim' Project* is still in the works but it may be taking more of a flagship (higher tier) approach as per Rose's latest IG posts: *IG post #1* and *IG post #2*. Also, 'Maxim' may only be the project name until the design and sound is finalized and a more fitting name is determined.


----------



## Ronion (Sep 23, 2021)

Buchi said:


> I received my M2s Pro body and Super Point driver today. Coming from Faaeal Rosemary I can say it's very bright, more analytical and the stage is wider. Both are well driven from my Shanling UA2.
> The trebble and sub bass are similar to my Tin T2 but in earbud form. Using full foam tamed the trebble and brought it a more enjoyable form. I can't experiment with donut foam as I don't have any now. In the coming days I will experiment with the tunning dampers as I ordered it too.
> 
> I don't know all the technical jargon to give a detailed review of what I hear but the differences between it and Rosemary were too stark to miss. I'm happy with it even though the whole set up costs more than 4 times the price of Rosemary.


Did the M2s pro shell come with any tuning net installed?

im glad your initial impressions was the same as mine though—very bright!   The Type 1 filter is a must.


----------



## Buchi

Ronion said:


> Did the M2s pro shell come with any tuning net installed?
> 
> im glad your initial impressions was the same as mine though—very bright!   The Type 1 filter is a must.


Yes, it came with a tuning set installed. I will experiement with the rest of the tunning set when I'm less busy.


----------



## Ronion

RikudouGoku said:


> Just noticed that its been almost 2 months since I got the LBBS and I havent bought any new buds since then....guess it might really be my endgame bud.


Do not try Blur buds.  Seriously, don’t do it.  The LBBs are an insane value when on sale and a great value at full price.  I’m using mine for my ‘beater’ set.  The sound is great, the fit and comfort are great… I do find that they sound clearer with lower density foam covers, but they’re one of those buds that are so well balanced, they work well with whatever you slip on them.


----------



## shahrul5689

1clearhead said:


> By the way, I don't have the EP08. How do they compare to the EP09?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> -Clear


oh, i'm no good at reviewing though, from my simple hearing EP08 doesnt sound open enough like EP09, maybe because of only 1 hole/vent? but it sure blocks external sound tad better. I used it with bluetooth dongle mainly for that. For the build it has similar metal housing like EP09 but it dig/sharp in my ear because of tapered shape. EP09 is much better for comfort. But the issues easily remedied with foams, i used cheap silicon tip? and both of them is really comfy 😀


----------



## SiggyFraud

Buchi said:


> Is the Bell LBs on AliExpress same as Bell LBBS? I can't seem to find the LBBS, if it's the same earbud, what is the difference between the Bell LB and LBs?


I got my LBBS here during the last sale for a little over 35 USD and I couldn't be happier!


----------



## 0b0d0

Thanks a lot,   [IMG alt="WoodyLuvr"]https://cdn.head-fi.org/avatars/m/424/424446.jpg?1621156587[/IMG]          for all this information on RoseTech.

​


----------



## assassin10000

So my latest mod is also an improvement in fit, on the already great fitting K's bell shell. MMCX converted my old LB cable for the LBBS I already MMCX converted. 

Wearing them down is way more stable now that there is something that sits in the inter-tragic notch. That and adding a chin cinch.


----------



## Ronion (Sep 24, 2021)

I’ve started wearing them over-ear/down (with the included ear hooks) as of my 5mi hike yesterday.  They are more stable in the wet of sweat that way.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 23, 2021)

0b0d0 said:


> Thanks a lot,   [IMG alt="WoodyLuvr"]https://cdn.head-fi.org/avatars/m/424/424446.jpg?1621156587[/IMG]          for all this information on RoseTech.
> 
> ​


No, thank you for keeping me on my toes! I updated the *earbud timeline* with this new info. Cheers!


----------



## Ronion

Buchi said:


> Yes, it came with a tuning set installed. I will experiement with the rest of the tunning set when I'm less busy.


from my experience, you can get them fairly close to an HD650 with the type 1 tuning filter and HeiGi foams.  The HeiGi also seem to keep them more stable in my ears.


----------



## emusic13

emusic13 said:


> Anyone want to buy my Blur? $155 https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/155-obo-blur-173-mx150-ohm-aps-2-5mm.11257/
> I'm including a free sealed Venture Electronics Monk SM now.


I'll be bringing this blur to Canjam so if anyone's going and wants a listen, shoot me a pm. Even if you're just curious and not interested in buying, you're more than welcome to try


----------



## Hammerburst

WoodyLuvr said:


> Here is a list of currently available *god-tier earbuds* (many are under $300).
> 
> Blur are Singaporean; custom-made in Singapore. The offered combination of high quality build, superb customer-service, and excellent sound signature in my opinion has been unmatched by anything I have ever bought headphone/earphone wise over forty plus years... including all summit gear in which one or two of those criteria were grossly lacking (e.g. looked great but sounded like crap; sounded great but had serious QC issues; sounded great, superbly build but hurt like hell; sounded great but with minor QC issues and horrible customer service; etc.)



Thanks big time for your suggestions, in this post. It has some very helpful recommendations. I am going to check out these, "God-Tier Earbuds", no doubt. Noticed that the VE Zen 2.0 is among these titans, interesting, it is a strong contender for me.


----------



## Scuba Devils

Thanks to @ian91 I have not one, but two sets of Blur Buds inbound. I haven't had a set of buds for several years but actually found a pair recently that came with a Cowon iAudio DAP from the early 00s... listened in bed last night and thoroughly enjoyed - very surprised at the sound quality, excellent detailed and balanced sound, very nice soundstage too. I assume they are pretty cheap too having just been bundled with a DAP way back.





I was debating the Fiio EM5 and after reading numerous reviews today, I took the plunge and a set arriving from Amazon on Tuesday - I've read about some quality issues but at least no problem with returns from Amazon, even indeed if I don't like, I have the 30 days return.


----------



## ian91

Scuba Devils said:


> Thanks to @ian91 I have not one, but two sets of Blur Buds inbound. I haven't had a set of buds for several years but actually found a pair recently that came with a Cowon iAudio DAP from the early 00s... listened in bed last night and thoroughly enjoyed - very surprised at the sound quality, excellent detailed and balanced sound, very nice soundstage too. I assume they are pretty cheap too having just been bundled with a DAP way back.
> 
> 
> 
> I was debating the Fiio EM5 and after reading numerous reviews today, I took the plunge and a set arriving from Amazon on Tuesday - I've read about some quality issues but at least no problem with returns from Amazon, even indeed if I don't like, I have the 30 days return.



Glad to hear you enjoyed the change of a bud for a while! Will be interested to hear your thoughts on the EM5.


----------



## Scuba Devils

ian91 said:


> Glad to hear you enjoyed the change of a bud for a while! Will be interested to hear your thoughts on the EM5.



Yes very keen to hear it, generally very positive reviews and I get the sense it will perform well with ambient and modern classical - I'll find out soon.


----------



## hotsnacx

I’m wondering if utws3 bt modules will fit smabat m2s pro?

hoping so since they otw. First bud after Ry4s for me.

in the market for a high impedance bud and going to purchase a cayin n3 pro soon too I think 🤔


----------



## Ronion (Sep 25, 2021)

Those Cowon buds are probably better than you think.  Seems like that was a decent period for buds, but I certainly wasn’t listening to them then.  Try them with a couple brands of foams to get an idea what they are really capable of.  I was blissfully in ER4Bs at that time and nearly getting run over every time I took a walk.

It will be interesting to read your listening impressions of your EM5 and Blur compared.   Clash of Titans.


----------



## Scuba Devils

Ronion said:


> Those Cowon buds are probably better than you think.  Seems like that was a decent period for buds, but I certainly wasn’t listening to them then.  Try them with a couple brands of foams to get an idea what they are really capable of.  I was blissfully in ER4Bs at that time and nearly getting run over every time I took a walk.
> 
> It will be interesting to read your listening impressions of your EM5 and Blur compared.   Clash of Titans.



I was in the fortunate position at the time where I was importing Cowon for distribution - that meant lots of samples to try out! The X5 DAP was incredible back then.

Yeah they are well built and really did surprise me in terms of sound - I couldn't find any foam but ordered some from Amazon, plus I'll have what comes with the EM5. That will certainly make a difference. 

Indeed, look forward to seeing how they all compare!


----------



## fonkepala

Scuba Devils said:


> Thanks to @ian91 I have not one, but two sets of Blur Buds inbound. I haven't had a set of buds for several years but actually found a pair recently that came with a Cowon iAudio DAP from the early 00s... listened in bed last night and thoroughly enjoyed - very surprised at the sound quality, excellent detailed and balanced sound, very nice soundstage too. I assume they are pretty cheap too having just been bundled with a DAP way back.
> 
> 
> 
> I was debating the Fiio EM5 and after reading numerous reviews today, I took the plunge and a set arriving from Amazon on Tuesday - I've read about some quality issues but at least no problem with returns from Amazon, even indeed if I don't like, I have the 30 days return.


That iAudio earbud looks remarkably similar to an LG earbud that I have: https://shopee.com.my/LG+Retro+Nice...4.3624958.7&stm_medium=referral&stm_source=rw

If they are indeed the same, I can confirm that they do indeed sound good. Only downside is the ultra short cable on the LG unit (perfect for use with the Qudelix 5K tho!).


----------



## Scuba Devils

fonkepala said:


> That iAudio earbud looks remarkably similar to an LG earbud that I have: https://shopee.com.my/LG+Retro+Nice...4.3624958.7&stm_medium=referral&stm_source=rw
> 
> If they are indeed the same, I can confirm that they do indeed sound good. Only downside is the ultra short cable on the LG unit (perfect for use with the Qudelix 5K tho!).



Yes they certainly look similar. I have some foam on the way, arriving tomorrow so looking forward to a proper listen.


----------



## Carrow

Out of the whole Sony MDR-E series, are there any more that are worth a punt without being prohibitively expensive? 

The ED21s were something I was delighted to try again but I didn't agree with the fit anymore so moved them on. I loved the vintage sound of the E434s but the drivers packed in overnight after I bothered to get a recable job done. The E828s are fantastic and still kicking. Anything else worth a try?


----------



## emusic13

K's Bell-Blue


----------



## mervindc146

emusic13 said:


> K's Bell-Blue


Are these 15.4mm? How are they sound-wise and the fitting?


----------



## emusic13

mervindc146 said:


> Are these 15.4mm? How are they sound-wise and the fitting?


I'm actually not sure the shell size but I think it's 16.2mm going from specs of the Lbbs (the shells look the same to me but are made with different materials). From reading the specs, it has a 15mm driver. To me, these are warm sounding earbuds and the fit is pretty much perfect. The bell type shell might be my favorite now because of how small it is. It sort of "hooks" into your ear.


----------



## RikudouGoku

emusic13 said:


> K's Bell-Blue


Do you have the LBBS?


----------



## DBaldock9

For those who like "Bell" shaped earbuds (without stems) - do you have any issues holding them, while fitting foams onto them?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 27, 2021)

DBaldock9 said:


> For those who like "Bell" shaped earbuds (without stems) - do you have any issues holding them, while fitting foams onto them?


Initially yes, they can be slippery lil' boogers when fitting cushions but after a few times (struggles... battles) the fingers become quite more nimble with the tasking. Their smaller diameter, more than even PK-type, actually aids in fitting a cushion as less stretching is required. With that said, my Turandots hands down are (were) the hardest to fit foams onto.


----------



## dw1narso

I'm not totally new to earbuds. Been acquired Monk+, TyHz 32ohm and Auglamour RX-1 many years ago all without success and thus dropped the idea about using earbuds.

While bored of waiting for some stuffs coming from last AliExpress sale... I dug myself another rabbit hole  by getting Yincrow X6 (Red-Gold).
Suffice to say I'm surprised at how good it is... 

I've burnt it for about 30 hours or so... And now, listening to Harry Connick Jr. "When Harry Met Sally" OST album while typing this message gives me few times goose bumps...


----------



## forestitalia (Sep 27, 2021)

Ok, those are a very different beast, very engaging, the bass is quite close to a in-ear.
Trebles sound little detached with Sabre Quad Dac in my LG, instead with Akm-Kann I really like the whole result. Are very picky about the recording, bad sound IN means 100% bad sound OUT.
The flute system is asymetric: rotating the buds a little the sound change a little, rotating 90 degrees (cable behind ears),  sound change noticeably (bad to me).

EM5 are close to an headphones experience, remember me a lot my Grados. May like the signature or not, however are impressive little buds.
Jazz, Blues, rock, very good with those. Headstage is narrow, not for classic music such as symphonic or even big groups, Smabat ST10s Gold are way better with that.
Price makes no sense looking the construction, 'OK' the quality of the plastic, cable is very nice, not to justify 320$.


----------



## Ronion (Sep 27, 2021)

I think the X6 is a good gateway into earbuds.  It’s what got me over the hump (meaning it was a catalyst).  I’d urge you to enjoy it a bit and keep it as a beater until it’s no longer functioning.

not too  push you into something else, but…..

The next leap forward to me would be a SMABAT in my opinion.  People are really enjoying the LBBs and I totally understand that.  It has zero actual flaws.  It’s comfy, comfy, comfy, easy to drive and it sounds really good no matter genre or safe listening level you are listening at.  Definitely more detailed than the X6.  It’s ALSO more neutral than the X6 out of the box, but that difference is minor IMO.  Both have great tonality.

The reason I would say a SMABAT next vs. the LBBs is it allows you to explore a bit deeper in whatever direction you want to go.  The cost is essentially the same as the LBBs.  The M2s pro shell costs a bit more vs the M0 and offers deeper bass and a bigger soundstage.  The M0 is smaller and sits a bit better in my ears.  The 150 Ohm driver is an electronic music champ that still does justice to vocals and other genres, while the Super One driver is my favorite SMABAT for acoustic and classical genres but I never got it dialed in with the M0 shell.  Both of those drivers and both of those Shells have more potential than the LBBs, but with the M0 I’d only do the 150 Ohm driver and it still sounds better in the M2s Pro.


dw1narso said:


> I'm not totally new to earbuds. Been acquired Monk+, TyHz 32ohm and Auglamour RX-1 many years ago all without success and thus dropped the idea about using earbuds.
> 
> While bored of waiting for some stuffs coming from last AliExpress sale... I dug myself another rabbit hole  by getting Yincrow X6 (Red-Gold).
> Suffice to say I'm surprised at how good it is...
> ...


----------



## Ronion

I just found this nice review of a number of earbuds that I own or have owned (or have owned cousins of theirs) that I often talk about in this thread.  I have to say that his review matches my impressions closely of these buds in their stock state. 

https://audiomonsta.com/smabat-m0-m2s-pro-review-modular-buddies/


----------



## emusic13

RikudouGoku said:


> Do you have the LBBS?


Yes, Blue is warmer and has a different cable with heavier shells.


----------



## dw1narso

Ronion said:


> I think the X6 is a good gateway into earbuds.  It’s what got me over the hump (meaning it was a catalyst).  I’d urge you to enjoy it a bit and keep it as a beater until it’s no longer functioning.
> 
> not too  push you into something else, but…..
> 
> ...


Thanks for your warm welcome Earbuds Team and especially Ronion. Thanks a lot for your inputs.

I will definitely take more time with X6. I'm a slow adopter, easily pleased with what I have,  and really careful with my spending.

Though originally a bit shouty on few female vocal (Cindy Lauper is one of sample), after the 30 hours of burning it is calming down to the point that it is not annoying anymore.

X6 has a great timbre/tonality that I value most. This alone is enough for me to keep it on my permanent stash; which mean regardless of the price, I tend to baby it carefully since I value it high.

Continuing slowly, exploring more X6 capabilities and characters...


----------



## Ronion (Sep 27, 2021)

It’s a great bud for sure.  Best bang for the buck I’ve heard.  Enjoy!

You can always tweak it a bit with different foams.  More dense foams add bass and tame treble: less dense does the opposite of course.  You’re never stuck with stock sound with buds.  Very easy to mod.


----------



## Scuba Devils

My EM5 arrived today and I'm very impressed out of the box. Yeah the buds could feel more expensive but interesting to read the background on the choice of 3D printing of resin to support the target signature. Metal would be nice but the flipside is the weight, these are incredibly light, barely feel them in my ears. 

I can absolutely understand how this could become a new rabbit hole. The bass is of course lacking versus my IEMs but actually more than I expected. Nice detail, very organic and coherent with what feels a realistic stage.

Anyway, only brief initial impressions, looking forward to more time with them in the coming days.


----------



## tendou

Ronion said:


> I think the X6 is a good gateway into earbuds.  It’s what got me over the hump (meaning it was a catalyst).  I’d urge you to enjoy it a bit and keep it as a beater until it’s no longer functioning.
> 
> not too  push you into something else, but…..
> 
> ...


How much was the m2s pro shell and the 150 ohm driver or super one driver goes during sale?


----------



## Rush87

I've ordered the Smabat M2s.
I'm curious to read a comparison between the gold 150 Ohm driver and the super 100 Ohm driver. The super driver is considerably more expansive.


----------



## limitlessbritt

Hey everyone,

Been a while but I ended up buying the Yincrow X6 and they are great! I'm looking to get a pair that I can wear at the gym upside down/ around my ear like iems for $25 or under from aliexpress. I've tried using the Yingcrow but they don't sit well for me upside down.

Thanks!


----------



## mervindc146

limitlessbritt said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> Been a while but I ended up buying the Yincrow X6 and they are great! I'm looking to get a pair that I can wear at the gym upside down/ around my ear like iems for $25 or under from aliexpress. I've tried using the Yingcrow but they don't sit well for me upside down.
> 
> Thanks!


You could always buy a silicon ring or winged silicons(forgot the name) to seal them on your ears. Generally though, I do not like using earbuds whilst I'm jogging as most are light and I'm hearing rattles when running.

Smabat has over the ears buds I think. Otherwise I stick to IEMs for gym use because they have better seal most of the time.


----------



## Ronion

tendou said:


> How much was the m2s pro shell and the 150 ohm driver or super one driver goes during sale?


The normal price on the shell is $25, but it’s sold out at this time.  Not sure if it will ever go on sale; demand seems pretty high.  Got the 150Ohm driver on sale for $18 Though its normal price is in the $25 range.  I also haven’t seen the Super One driver go on sale and it’s pricey at nearly $40.  I love it, glad I have it, but the $150 ohm driver is the better deal.  The Super One does make it considerably more expensive that the LBBs which I got on sale for $35 And is around $45 at the moment.


----------



## Ronion (Sep 28, 2021)

Rush87 said:


> I've ordered the Smabat M2s.
> I'm curious to read a comparison between the gold 150 Ohm driver and the super 100 Ohm driver. The super driver is considerably more expansive.


The 150 Ohm driver has a wider frequency range on both ends, though the Super One is no slouch.  The SO tends to be brighter overall but can be tuned to be very beautiful and has a smoother sound.  Both have a large soundstage but my ear says the SO is larger.  The 150 ohm sounds a lot like the 40 ohm, just better in every way.  The biggest difference to me is more note weight on the 150 is heavier or more dense.  I bet they graph similarly, but the 150 comes through with authority.  It does require a small amp however and scales very well from there.  1 volt dongles won’t do it justice.  I wonder if VE’s 2 volt dongle will for $11, but that’s a discussion for a different time, a different place.  The SO is great for orchestral music because of the soundstage and the way it gets instrument’s timbre across.  Bowed strings sound more like bowed strings.  Though brass may actually sound a smidgeon better on the 150.  It’s close.  I prefer the 150 on electronic music because of its harder hitting, deeper, drier bass and better portrayal of electronic hi hats.  The instrument separation seems to be a touch better on the 150 as well.  It’s a drier sounding driver.   To me, the SO is more euphonic/analog sounding where the 150 Ohm is like a precision made digital music machine.  Both are a step up (IMO!) to the LBBs Though the LBBs is cool.  It’s even handed and does everything well for the price.  Whatever genres you like, the LBBs delivers it in a very levelheaded manor.  It actually sort of sits between the 2 but has less frequency range than either and less detail.  Drier sounding than the SO, more organic/wet than the 150.


----------



## Scuba Devils

I'm absolutely loving the EM5... incredibly addictive! Very curious to hear how my incoming Blur compare.


----------



## Ronion

Scuba Devils said:


> I'm absolutely loving the EM5... incredibly addictive! Very curious to hear how my incoming Blur compare.


“You and me both” in American Angle-ish.


----------



## Scuba Devils

Ronion said:


> “You and me both” in American Angle-ish.



Hoping soon... left Singapore a week ago ⏰


----------



## Rush87

Ronion said:


> The 150 Ohm driver has a wider frequency range on both ends, though the Super One is no slouch.  The SO tends to be brighter overall but can be tuned to be very beautiful and has a smoother sound.  Both have a large soundstage but my ear says the SO is larger.  The 150 ohm sounds a lot like the 40 ohm, just better in every way.  The biggest difference to me is more note weight on the 150 is heavier or more dense.  I bet they graph similarly, but the 150 comes through with authority.  It does require a small amp however and scales very well from there.  1 volt dongles won’t do it justice.  I wonder if VE’s 2 volt dongle will for $11, but that’s a discussion for a different time, a different place.  The SO is great for orchestral music because of the soundstage and the way it gets instrument’s timbre across.  Bowed strings sound more like bowed strings.  Though brass may actually sound a smidgeon better on the 150.  It’s close.  I prefer the 150 on electronic music because of its harder hitting, deeper, drier bass and better portrayal of electronic hi hats.  The instrument separation seems to be a touch better on the 150 as well.  It’s a drier sounding driver.   To me, the SO is more euphonic/analog sounding where the 150 Ohm is like a precision made digital music machine.  Both are a step up (IMO!) to the LBBs Though the LBBs is cool.  It’s even handed and does everything well for the price.  Whatever genres you like, the LBBs delivers it in a very levelheaded manor.  It actually sort of sits between the 2 but has less frequency range than either and less detail.  Drier sounding than the SO, more organic/wet than the 150.


Thanks!


----------



## tendou

Ronion said:


> The normal price on the shell is $25, but it’s sold out at this time.  Not sure if it will ever go on sale; demand seems pretty high.  Got the 150Ohm driver on sale for $18 Though its normal price is in the $25 range.  I also haven’t seen the Super One driver go on sale and it’s pricey at nearly $40.  I love it, glad I have it, but the $150 ohm driver is the better deal.  The Super One does make it considerably more expensive that the LBBs which I got on sale for $35 And is around $45 at the moment.



Thanks. I got the lbbs at around 30usd which makes it a very good deal.

There was a post a few pages back that shows smabat changes the driver for 150ohm with a generic blue 150ohm. Not sure what smabat says about this.


----------



## Ronion

I thought that was just in an ad Through a 3rd party seller?  I looked for the post but was unable to find it through the search engine or manually.  Nonetheless, the customer service I’ve received from SMABAT has honest been stellar.  They’ve done nothing to make me think or feel they are the least bit shady and their communication has been quick, courteous and clear.  I’m not a SMABAT shill if you’re thinking along those lines.  My SMABAT are not my favorite buds—Blur is my best.  I’m probably best thought of as an uncompensated Blur shill.  😆


----------



## tendou

Ronion said:


> I thought that was just in an ad Through a 3rd party seller?  I looked for the post but was unable to find it through the search engine or manually.  Nonetheless, the customer service I’ve received from SMABAT has honest been stellar.  They’ve done nothing to make me think or feel they are the least bit shady and their communication has been quick, courteous and clear.  I’m not a SMABAT shill if you’re thinking along those lines.  My SMABAT are not my favorite buds—Blur is my best.  I’m probably best thought of as an uncompensated Blur shill.  😆


Hope they really don't do that. Blur is great the only weakness is higher prce.


----------



## LTSFBH

Recently got into IEM's big time. Actually traded away almost all of my HP's and put together a decent selection (BLON, CCA, Tin, Tripowin, Planamic, iSine, and high end Earsonics S-EM9). Really have no experience with earbuds and bought a pair of FAAEAL Ancestor just to dip my toes in the water. I was pleasantly surprised that they sounded pretty good (when amped). Reading through this thread and trying to sort through all the info is a little tough. Any chance some of you could recommend a few in the sub $30 category (I'd like to order a few to try without spending big bucks) and where to buy them? I will be using them 95% of the time with my home setups (Topping DX7 Pro, JDS EL amp, Liquid Spark, Musical Fidelity M1HPA). Any help and guidance greatly appreciated!


----------



## Ronion

I’d recommend the Yincrow X6.  They are good, fun and cheap.


----------



## rprodrigues

LTSFBH said:


> Recently got into IEM's big time. Actually traded away almost all of my HP's and put together a decent selection (BLON, CCA, Tin, Tripowin, Planamic, iSine, and high end Earsonics S-EM9). Really have no experience with earbuds and bought a pair of FAAEAL Ancestor just to dip my toes in the water. I was pleasantly surprised that they sounded pretty good (when amped). Reading through this thread and trying to sort through all the info is a little tough. Any chance some of you could recommend a few in the sub $30 category (I'd like to order a few to try without spending big bucks) and where to buy them? I will be using them 95% of the time with my home setups (Topping DX7 Pro, JDS EL amp, Liquid Spark, Musical Fidelity M1HPA). Any help and guidance greatly appreciated!



K's LBBS for a slightly higher price tag (around $40) when they are on sales.
I wouldn't recommend spending on ultra-budget sets ($4 and below) unless you are going to test their shapes or sound signatures.


----------



## LTSFBH

Ronion said:


> I’d recommend the Yincrow X6.  They are good, fun and cheap.


Thank. That was one I was planning on. I realize that I'll likely have to purchase from Ali and then wait for delivery. There are a few options from Amazon and was wondering if you, or anybody, has thoughts on...

Moondrop Nameless
Moondrop Shiro Yuki White Snow
Faaeal Snow Lotus
Faaeal Iris Commemorative


----------



## Ronion

The FAAEAL are decent enough, but Id personally just wait on the X6.


----------



## jestercow (Oct 1, 2021)

LTSFBH said:


> Recently got into IEM's big time. Actually traded away almost all of my HP's and put together a decent selection (BLON, CCA, Tin, Tripowin, Planamic, iSine, and high end Earsonics S-EM9). Really have no experience with earbuds and bought a pair of FAAEAL Ancestor just to dip my toes in the water. I was pleasantly surprised that they sounded pretty good (when amped). Reading through this thread and trying to sort through all the info is a little tough. Any chance some of you could recommend a few in the sub $30 category (I'd like to order a few to try without spending big bucks) and where to buy them? I will be using them 95% of the time with my home setups (Topping DX7 Pro, JDS EL amp, Liquid Spark, Musical Fidelity M1HPA). Any help and guidance greatly appreciated!



Easy recommendation: Yincrow RW-9, I may be on the wrong side of history with this one but I much prefer it over the X6. It feels more refined to me, and does not lack for bass.



LTSFBH said:


> Thank. That was one I was planning on. I realize that I'll likely have to purchase from Ali and then wait for delivery. There are a few options from Amazon and was wondering if you, or anybody, has thoughts on...
> 
> Moondrop Nameless
> Moondrop Shiro Yuki White Snow
> ...



The FAAEALs do soundstage and mids/treble remarkably well for their pricepoint. Either the Snow Lotus or the Iris CE will treat you well, just be prepared for underwhelming bass. Aside from that they are beautiful sounding buds.


----------



## Ronion

I’d like to hear the RW-9. The graphs I’ve seen certainly look well tuned.


----------



## digititus

I also prefer the RW-9. Good recommendation


----------



## HombreCangrejo

LTSFBH said:


> Recently got into IEM's big time. Actually traded away almost all of my HP's and put together a decent selection (BLON, CCA, Tin, Tripowin, Planamic, iSine, and high end Earsonics S-EM9). Really have no experience with earbuds and bought a pair of FAAEAL Ancestor just to dip my toes in the water. I was pleasantly surprised that they sounded pretty good (when amped). Reading through this thread and trying to sort through all the info is a little tough. Any chance some of you could recommend a few in the sub $30 category (I'd like to order a few to try without spending big bucks) and where to buy them? I will be using them 95% of the time with my home setups (Topping DX7 Pro, JDS EL amp, Liquid Spark, Musical Fidelity M1HPA). Any help and guidance greatly appreciated!



I'd recommend you RY4S Plus everytime. They have such a great bass (without being muddy nor overshadowing the other frequencies) that you'll find difficult to believe that sound comes from an earbud.

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.7edb4e20BsSabc&algo_pvid=92a797ce-b622-48aa-a716-93cff61df76d&algo_exp_id=92a797ce-b622-48aa-a716-93cff61df76d-0&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"67288551786"}


----------



## Scuba Devils (Oct 1, 2021)

I'm on my 5th day with EM5, left them burning in as much as possible. I love them - definitely not an all-rounder, they struggle with some of my more energetic electronic music but fantastic with atmospheric/space ambient, modern classical, field recordings, jazz, some electro to name a few genres. I'll delve deeper with other genres over the weekend. I've been wearing them on and off today for almost 8 hours while working, they are so light and zero fatigue - most of my IEMs hurt after a while, definitely couldn't wear them the way I have EM5 all day like this...


----------



## mochill

So what's the verdict with 7hz Beatles earbuds


----------



## Ronion

Scuba Devils said:


> I'm on my 5th day with EM5, left them burning in as much as possible. I love them - definitely not an all-rounder, they struggle with some of my more energetic electronic music but fantastic with atmospheric/space ambient, modern classical, field recordings, jazz, some electro to name a few genres. I'll delve deeper with other genres over the weekend. I've been wearing them on and off today for almost 8 hours while working, they are so light and zero fatigue - most of my IEMs hurt after a while, definitely couldn't wear them the way I have EM5 all day like this...


I try and remind myself not to listen too loud.  I can wear earbuds all day and night and enjoy music. It’s nearly as comfortable as speakers—well in truth I’ve never worn speakers.   Even the MX500 shape, which is the least comfortable shaped bud in my ear, can stay for hours on end and even through sleep.  Retaining our hearing into senior years is a good goal IMO.  Listen with caution


----------



## Scuba Devils

Ronion said:


> I try and remind myself not to listen too loud.  I can wear earbuds all day and night and enjoy music. It’s nearly as comfortable as speakers—well in truth I’ve never worn speakers.   Even the MX500 shape, which is the least comfortable shaped bud in my ear, can stay for hours on end and even through sleep.  Retaining our hearing into senior years is a good goal IMO.  Listen with caution



Yes wise words and I have indeed fallen into the trap with IEMs in particular of pushing the volume up too high - only a few weeks ago, a mix of tip rolling and excessive volume drove the need to take a break for a few days as my ears were quite sore! While working, I have very relaxed ambient music playing and relatively low - perfect with buds as I've found this week. I shudder to think of hearing damage that would impact my ability to listen to music!!!


----------



## 1clearhead

jestercow said:


> *Easy recommendation: Yincrow RW-9, I may be on the wrong side of history with this one but I much prefer it over the X6. It feels more refined to me, and does not lack for bass.*
> 
> 
> 
> The FAAEALs do soundstage and mids/treble remarkably well for their pricepoint. Either the Snow Lotus or the Iris CE will treat you well, just be prepared for underwhelming bass. Aside from that they are beautiful sounding buds.


+1 Definitely a step up!...Couldn't agree more!

LOL!...And if someone mentions that they stop making the RW-9 since last year, don't believe it! That's a bunch of bull***. I live in China and there's still plenty of RW-9 being sold in and out of China. So, step right up and get sum! 

-Clear


----------



## 1clearhead

Ronion said:


> I’d like to hear the RW-9. The graphs I’ve seen certainly look well tuned.


It is definitely a step up! 
Don't let anyone else tell you other wise, just get them and decide for yourself...Money well spent and ears well satisfied!

-Clear


----------



## 1clearhead (Oct 1, 2021)

ClieOS, the one that started this thread and well respected for his many reviews and accurate comments on the matter said this about the Yincrow RW-9..."And I quote"​"RW-9 is probably best described as the mid ground between the more V-shaped sounding X6 and the slightly mid focus RW-777. It is still slightly V-shaped, but with a much better textured and detailed vocal range, making it the best balanced sound signature in the whole Yincrow lineup. While the overall SQ is about the same as RW-777 (which is about upper mid to lower high in my book), I actually prefer it over RW-777 as it is much more versatile when it comes to different music genres. All and all, I'll call it a win for Yincrow, especially since it is priced cheaper than RW-777."

Just click below to read his statement...
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-14261807

So in other words, the Yincrow RW-9 is the "best bang for the buck" out of the Yincrow line-up if you're on a budget!

Cheers! 

-Clear


----------



## iemhater

Finally got my replacement bell lbbs. They are very good, being on par with equalized faaeal datura pro. Hope it lasts longer.

Soundstage seems a bit smaller than most of the earbuds I've had, probably because the shell is so small. But I love everything else about it.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

mochill said:


> So what's the verdict with 7hz Beatles earbuds


Pass.


----------



## Scuba Devils

I bought Budloks for my EM5, very good - hold position perfectly to direct sound through the ear canal. Challenge is putting them on over the foams which seems impossible?! 

They are expensive also, especially when only one size fits and only sold as a pack of S, M, and L.

Can anyone point to a good alternative on AliExpress please? I see quite a few options there.


----------



## Ronion (Oct 2, 2021)

Venture Electronics sells them in their ExPack https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32844964644.html

They are difficult to install as well.  The way to work the foams is to cut a hole just smaller than the base of the shark fin and install it in the “foam-over” (not to be confused with the “comb-over” made popular by your grade school civics instructor) style.  The foams that come in the V pack are useful for tuning overly bassy or treble-shy buds.


----------



## KutuzovGambit (Oct 2, 2021)

Qian39 arrived, basically the best form factor ever. Any upgrades in SQ with the same-ish fit (it’s a nonstandard shell IIRC?)?

Edit: actually wow, you know, this SQ is ridiculously good for $5. Where have earbuds been all my life?? If this is an indication of the other buds I have incoming, I’ll probably just sell all my IEMs except for the LZ A7 and review units…


----------



## sunsun89

My ksearphone lbbs arrived!
1st impression : Wow!! bass not bloated to mid. just "enough" thump. if i want more bass, i just use EQ to increase 20hz-100hz dB
after use it about 2 hour, my ear not hurt at all!! i love lbbs housing, it fits perfectly in my ear


----------



## foniak

I have been away from the earbud game in a long time. I still miss my pk3 (original not fakes or the other builds which didn't sound as good). Can someone recommend something similar? I still haven't heard a earbud that sounded that good. And I need a simple earbud without anything being stuck on your eardrum, just the classic flat designs. I also had a paid of EB2's and they werent as good as pk3.


----------



## Ronion

KutuzovGambit said:


> Qian39 arrived, basically the best form factor ever. Any upgrades in SQ with the same-ish fit (it’s a nonstandard shell IIRC?)?
> 
> Edit: actually wow, you know, this SQ is ridiculously good for $5. Where have earbuds been all my life?? If this is an indication of the other buds I have incoming, I’ll probably just sell all my IEMs except for the LZ A7 and review units…


Venture Electronics makes some buds with that shell, but I’ve never heard the buds you have.  I do have the Qian69 though.  They are nice buds and still comfy.


----------



## shenshen (Oct 3, 2021)

KutuzovGambit said:


> Qian39 arrived, basically the best form factor ever. Any upgrades in SQ with the same-ish fit (it’s a nonstandard shell IIRC?)?
> 
> Edit: actually wow, you know, this SQ is ridiculously good for $5. Where have earbuds been all my life?? If this is an indication of the other buds I have incoming, I’ll probably just sell all my IEMs except for the LZ A7 and review units…


What @Ronion said, specifically the VE Zen Lite.


----------



## sunsun89

Ronion said:


> Venture Electronics makes some buds with that shell, but I’ve never heard the buds you have.  I do have the Qian69 though.  They are nice buds and still comfy.


hi, which ve monk that has diameter like vemonk lite, that give good quantity bass? but stil fun n musical?


----------



## Ronion

I’m not really sure… I have the Zen Lite and it’s definitely a comfy bud that sounds great.  I has a warm bass and requires VE foams (comes with it) or no foams at all.  The LL or 120 Ohm Monk Lite may be more what you are looking for.  VE is very good about responding to inquiries.


----------



## sunsun89

Ronion said:


> I’m not really sure… I have the Zen Lite and it’s definitely a comfy bud that sounds great.  I has a warm bass and requires VE foams (comes with it) or no foams at all.  The LL or 120 Ohm Monk Lite may be more what you are looking for.  VE is very good about responding to inquiries.


thanks i will looking for ve monk lite SPC edition which is 120 ohm right? 
ve LL seem out of my budget just for fun or musical.


----------



## shenshen

sunsun89 said:


> thanks i will looking for ve monk lite SPC edition which is 120 ohm right?
> ve LL seem out of my budget just for fun or musical.


Monk Lite 120ohm is on the brighter side as far as VE stuff goes, but still very enjoyable!


----------



## sunsun89

shenshen said:


> Monk Lite 120ohm is on the brighter side as far as VE stuff goes, but still very enjoyable!


so which ve monk u recomended for me?
i want housing like ve monk lite, and want great thump bass but still has clarity?


----------



## shenshen

sunsun89 said:


> so which ve monk u recomended for me?
> i want housing like ve monk lite, and want great thump bass but still has clarity?


I think you'll like the Monk Lite 120ohm just fine, it doesn't suffer from the same issue as the Zens where foams alter the sound drastically. I don't find the Monk Lite 120ohm's lacking in bass, I only meant they are brighter in comparison to other VE since most VE buds are decidedly warm. In fact, the brighter lean can help with that clarity you're looking for.


----------



## sunsun89

shenshen said:


> I think you'll like the Monk Lite 120ohm just fine, it doesn't suffer from the same issue as the Zens where foams alter the sound drastically. I don't find the Monk Lite 120ohm's lacking in bass, I only meant they are brighter in comparison to other VE since most VE buds are decidedly warm. In fact, the brighter lean can help with that clarity you're looking for.


ok nice, i will buy it


----------



## arar (Oct 4, 2021)

Busted out my Yincrow X6s for the first time in a while since I got the Qudelix 5k a while ago and wanted to try them, and while these are certainly enjoyable especially with electronic music, I feel like the mids could be better. Some male vocals, for example, sound a bit weird and unnatural to my ears. Kinda like they're compressed and played back through a thin wall?

Any buds to recommend that don't sacrifice too much of the bass and the general easy listening characteristic of the X6 but offer clearer, more natural sounding mids?

Also, unrelated to what I asked, but god I hate the X6 cable lol. It's straight up my second least favorite cable of any thing ever, right after the Beyerdynamics DT770.


----------



## cdsa35000

arar said:


> Busted out my Yincrow X6s for the first time in a while since I got the Qudelix 5k a while ago and wanted to try them, and while these are certainly enjoyable especially with electronic music, I feel like the mids could be better. Some male vocals, for example, sound a bit weird and unnatural to my ears. Kinda like they're compressed and played back through a thin wall?
> 
> Any buds to recommend that don't sacrifice too much of the bass and the general easy listening characteristic of the X6 but offer clearer, more natural sounding mids?


Try the EP05, the unique open back tuning make it sounds natural flat response full bandwidth with clear mids, if you comes from v-shaped buds then the EP05 considered sounds like n-shaped, but it not all highs/bass are intact, just like flat/neutral best soundings buds.
Search for other $16 sellers (the linked one got greedy)  and hope on good lucky draw:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/jcally-ep05-jc10-bio-cel-endgame-16-worth-1000.959655/


----------



## dw1narso

arar said:


> Busted out my Yincrow X6s for the first time in a while since I got the Qudelix 5k a while ago and wanted to try them, and while these are certainly enjoyable especially with electronic music, I feel like the mids could be better. Some male vocals, for example, sound a bit weird and unnatural to my ears. Kinda like they're compressed and played back through a thin wall?
> 
> Any buds to recommend that don't sacrifice too much of the bass and the general easy listening characteristic of the X6 but offer clearer, more natural sounding mids?
> 
> Also, unrelated to what I asked, but god I hate the X6 cable lol. It's straight up my second least favorite cable of any thing ever, right after the Beyerdynamics DT770.


I feel the same.. Somehow X6 does not sync well with Qudelix 5K.. The mid become muddy and too V shape..

X6 sounded better with CXPro CX31993


----------



## arar

cdsa35000 said:


> Try the EP05, the unique open back tuning make it sounds natural flat response full bandwidth with clear mids, if you comes from v-shaped buds then the EP05 considered sounds like n-shaped, but it not all highs/bass are intact, just like flat/neutral best soundings buds.
> Search for other $16 sellers (the linked one got greedy)  and hope on good lucky draw:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/jcally-ep05-jc10-bio-cel-endgame-16-worth-1000.959655/



Is that... a detachable cable on an earbud? Fuken SOLD!



dw1narso said:


> I feel the same.. Somehow X6 does not sync well with Qudelix 5K.. The mid become muddy and too V shape..
> 
> X6 sounded better with CXPro CX31993



Ah, didn't even consider it could be partially the Q5k's fault too. I'll have to compare against my desktop setup later today.


----------



## RikudouGoku

arar said:


> Any buds to recommend that don't sacrifice too much of the bass and the general easy listening characteristic of the X6 but offer clearer, more natural sounding mids?


LBBS + PEQ


----------



## sunsun89

RikudouGoku said:


> LBBS + PEQ


what is PEQ stand for?
btw thanks for your recommendation LBBS! i like it a lot!
my 1st bud is toneking tp16, at 1st i want to buy yincrow x6, but the housing really2 hurt my ear after 1 h - 2h listening. 
so i choose LBBS base on your ranking.

btw, can u help me choose new buds for rolling? because i want buy another bud that offer great bass, but have small housing like LBBS,  

aldy got recommendation ve monk lite SPC, but if u have another recommendation, i will appreciate it a lot


----------



## RikudouGoku

sunsun89 said:


> what is PEQ stand for?
> btw thanks for your recommendation LBBS! i like it a lot!
> my 1st bud is toneking tp16, at 1st i want to buy yincrow x6, but the housing really2 hurt my ear after 1 h - 2h listening.
> so i choose LBBS base on your ranking.
> ...


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rik...-list-music-list.925319/page-57#post-16492062

This is all you need lol.


----------



## dw1narso

sunsun89 said:


> what is PEQ stand for?


Parametric Equalizer... 

The normal equalizer we know (usually named as Graphic EQ) are set with predefined bands (say 5 bands, 7, 10, and so on) and center frequencies. The chosen frequencies usually based on logarithmic scale jump in between bands... Then it also has predefined 'bandwidth' while applying gain or attenuation, creating peak or valley.

With PEQ, we could freely choose the center frequency and the bandwidth and contour (peak/valley, shelf, band-pass filter)
This is what  RikudouGoku mention on his post above


----------



## Ronion (Oct 4, 2021)

The LBBs is $39 right Now on AE.  That’s an excellent deal.  Nevermind, AE sent misinformation.  They are actually $54 at the moment.  I bit on bad bait.  My apologies.


----------



## LTSFBH

Ronion said:


> The LBBs is $39 right Now on AE.  That’s an excellent deal


Could you provide a link? Every search for LBBs comes back as no results found.


----------



## Ronion

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/329...f9b208e1f49faa5d9b9577665d919&ck=in_edm_other


----------



## foniak

Please can someone say a Yuin pk3 replacement?






Unfortunately I don't trust any yuin pk3 made after 2015 or so. They are either fake, or the manufacturer is making them different, they don't sound as "wow, why does it sound that good" anymore. Im looking for a replacement. Got the nicehck EB2, good, but not as good. Any recommendations???


----------



## ValSuki

foniak said:


> Please can someone say a Yuin pk3 replacement?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Pretty much from what I understand, white text pk's (the ones that are in that photo there) were stopped being made then someone bought all the equipment that was used and made worse ones in the same name. Theyre not really "fakes", just very poorly made ones which use grey text instead of white.

As for a replacement to the PK3, thats a bit of a funny one. Im sure someone in this thread will know, but I use as my daily driver right now the ShoonTH ESEP-01BLE that ise "foster" drivers and they sound wonderful. Hate the cable it uses though lol.


----------



## 1clearhead (Oct 4, 2021)

arar said:


> Busted out my Yincrow X6s for the first time in a while since I got the Qudelix 5k a while ago and wanted to try them, and while these are certainly enjoyable especially with electronic music, I feel like the mids could be better. Some male vocals, for example, sound a bit weird and unnatural to my ears. Kinda like they're compressed and played back through a thin wall?
> 
> Any buds to recommend that don't sacrifice too much of the bass and the general easy listening characteristic of the X6 but offer clearer, more natural sounding mids?
> 
> Also, unrelated to what I asked, but god I hate the X6 cable lol. It's straight up my second least favorite cable of any thing ever, right after the Beyerdynamics DT770.


If you go a step up to the Yincrow RW-9, it offers cleaner and better transparent MID's with better hi-end details, while the sub-bass digs deeper with less overly done mid-bass. So, in a sense you get better transparency and life-like coherency that sounds more natural at the average normal volume. Plus, there's different color cable with buds to choose from, which in my opinion, is also a step up.

You can check out the link below...
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32868456063.html

Hope this helps...

-Clear


----------



## arar

Thanks for the recs, I'll check out the RW-9, LBBS (with Rikudou's EQ) and EP05!


----------



## Сomrade

LTSFBH said:


> Could you provide a link? Every search for LBBs comes back as no results found.


https://clck.ru/UGt8Q


----------



## dw1narso

arar said:


> Ah, didn't even consider it could be partially the Q5k's fault too. I'll have to compare against my desktop setup later today.


Q5K 'sound' is not totally neutral... I think it is a bit bumped up on the lower mid and bit of rolled of high.  They market it as Reference DAC/Amp, but never mentioned that it would be neutral nor that they target it to audiophiles looking for true to the source sound. Maybe they make it to be friendlier to the greater audience.

Yincrow X6 is obviously on the warm side. So both does not really melt well... 

Having a more 'neutral' or leaner sounding source might could give X6 a better balance... (IMHO)...  

PS.  I once tried to decode your cryptic location but failed  .... Don't tell me... I'll give a try another time...


----------



## foniak

Where can one buy donut foams for replacement? I need ones for EB2.


----------



## KutuzovGambit

foniak said:


> Where can one buy donut foams for replacement? I need ones for EB2.


Hiegi on Penon.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Hahahaha genius idea. 







LBBS + parts express headband = deeper fit
(putting something like blu tack should make it more secure) 

https://giantpygmy.net/shop/index.php?id_product=8&controller=product


----------



## Chessnaudio

RikudouGoku said:


> Hahahaha genius idea.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's hilarious! Is the fit actually better for you?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Chessnaudio said:


> That's hilarious! Is the fit actually better for you?


It is more secure but main point is, its deeper = more basssss


----------



## Ronion

I do think that is genius!  I mean obviously whoever did that is a genius.  I'm looking for that headband now.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Ronion said:


> I do think that is genius!  I mean obviously whoever did that is a genius.  I'm looking for that headband now.


Thats my idea and pic lol.

The headband is from "parts express". Its usually bought to upgrade the stock headband on the Koss Porta Pro/KSC75. I have a few of them because of that.


----------



## assassin10000

RikudouGoku said:


> It is more secure but main point is, its deeper = more basssss


Not so much 'deeper' but more forcing a seal like when you press them in with your fingers.

Well, unless you have giant earholes. Then yeah...


----------



## 1clearhead

assassin10000 said:


> Not so much 'deeper' but more forcing a seal like when you press them in with your fingers.
> 
> Well, unless you have giant earholes. Then yeah...


+1 Definitely not for everyone, since earbuds were actually made just to sit inside the ear and not so inserted like "in-ear" monitor earphones. I will highly find this uncomfortable, IMHO.

-Clear


----------



## chinmie

assassin10000 said:


> Not so much 'deeper' but more forcing a seal like when you press them in with your fingers.
> 
> Well, unless you have giant earholes. Then yeah...



also pushing earbuds deeper into the ears would usually increase midbass to mids "boom" , and reduce the airy-ness of the soundstage.. I'm not debating whether it's right or wrong, as depending on the earbuds (and person) that method might or may not work.. , it's just at that point and the resulted sound, i rather go with straight up IEMs. 

my preferred earbuds placement would be making them sit on the concha, put my thumb behind the lobule, and "pinch" the earbuds back and down (to the back of the neck) 

but if it works for @RikudouGoku and he likes it, great for him! i genuinely like the idea and might find a scenario where it would work for me


----------



## Buchi

How do you wear your Smabat M2sPro? Cable down or over the ear?


----------



## Ronion (Oct 6, 2021)

Cable down here, but the more complete answer would be however they fit *you* best.  Ear hooks help them stay in my ears when I’m active.


----------



## Сomrade (Oct 6, 2021)

Buchi said:


> Как вы носите Smabat M2sPro? Кабелем вниз или над ухом?


)


----------



## Chessnaudio

Could someone let me know their impressions of Ksearphone bell Onmyoji vs Moondrop Chaccone please? I would like to know in comparison to K LBBS. Looking to upgrade from there. Thanks!


----------



## History Debunked fan

Hi

I've bought a pair of FiiO UTWS3 MMCX and I'm looking for recommendations for buds to use with them to listen to Audible and YouTube. They'll be used at home, and the source will be an android phone (I currently have a Note 8 but may change). Budget $200 but I'm happy to spend much less. I'm in the UK but fine with ordering from anywhere. (Want buds rather than iems as I don't want isolation.) 

All thoughts welcome. Thanks in advance.


----------



## hotsnacx

so happy this worked out for me! At first it wasn’t a fit but I realized I could really manipulate the hooks!

m2s pro came with an extra driver, this was such a bizarre thing for me as this is my 2nd bud. Modular system seems legit but I’m afraid to get anything higher impedance with this setup. Wish there was a setting for using the buds like this. Sound is decent enough for me though.

lbbs otw which I know I can’t wear like this


----------



## Ronion

I wear the LBBs that way.  It comes with ear hooks and you can adjust the cable length to fit perfectly. I like wearing the LBBs down, but it gets loose when I hike/sweat.  The ear hooks work better for me in that situation.


----------



## hotsnacx

I got those budloks someone suggested so hopefully those fit me well.


----------



## Narayan23

Ronion said:


> I wear the LBBs that way.  It comes with ear hooks and you can adjust the cable length to fit perfectly. I like wearing the LBBs down, but it gets loose when I hike/sweat.  The ear hooks work better for me in that situation.


Hello Ronion, how do the LBBs compare to your Blur earbuds?


----------



## MelodyMood

Yesterday I got the Dongle DAC I bought from VE Site (Avani), and now I can safely say that it is purely Scam. There is not even iota of change in the sound quality and in fact it was very loud all of a sudden but then I did something.

There is no change in Sample rate or bit rate or anything else. This proves that these Dongles and Connectors are scam from these Phone companies so people will spend money in buying them as 3.5mm Jack will not be there.

I knew that it is just marketing gimmick and just to increase sales by phone companies but as many guys here were saying that as I did not use it, I cannot say if that is good or not. But now I have used it and it just connect the phone without 3.5mm Jack to your earbuds. Your DAC receives Analog signal and passes to the earphones.


----------



## uneri (Oct 8, 2021)

‎


----------



## Chessnaudio

uneri said:


> Onmyoji 2021 is a direct upgrade to the LBBs.
> It has the same shell size with a longer stem, and builds on the same neutral-bright tuning with better extension on both ends, as well as boosting increased technicalities.
> 
> Chaconne is an upper-mids and treble monster with a wonderful sense of airiness, but the Onmyoji is definitely no slouch in that regard as well, and can easily match Chaconne's performance IMO.
> ...


Thank you. Bell Ti plus is basically double the price of Chaccone and Onmyoji.  might have to sell some gear first LOL.


----------



## KutuzovGambit

Chessnaudio said:


> Thank you. Bell Ti plus is basically double the price of Chaccone and Onmyoji.  might have to sell some gear first LOL.


At these prices you gotta consider Blur.


----------



## emusic13

KutuzovGambit said:


> At these prices you gotta consider Blur.


Do you have a blur?


----------



## KutuzovGambit (Oct 6, 2021)

emusic13 said:


> Do you have a blur?


Am considering one 😉


----------



## uneri (Oct 8, 2021)

‎


----------



## Chessnaudio

uneri said:


> Never thought I'd buy the Plus myself, but the discounts & savings were too good on the previous sales, I ended up getting one for just under $500. That's why I suggested waiting till the next sale on 11.11 for any potential good deals.


Through Aliexpress I assume. Can you  link a legit seller please? It is always hard to figure out. I will probably wait till then


----------



## uneri (Oct 8, 2021)

‎


----------



## Penon (Oct 16, 2021)

*Shozy Cygnus *4.4mm balanced version is available now.

https://penonaudio.com/shozy-cygnus.html

Japan imported Bispa 4.4mm balanced gold-plated plug
Cable entry aperture: 5mm
Shell diameter: 9mm
Shell material: bronze nickel-plated


----------



## Ronion (Oct 7, 2021)

Narayan23 said:


> Hello Ronion, how do the LBBs compare to your Blur earbuds?


They are warmer/muddier and slower with a smaller soundstage than the Blur MX64.  However, the shell is a better fit for my ears.  Two different price points though and the LBBs are great for the money.


MelodyMood said:


> Yesterday I got the Dongle DAC I bought from VE Site (Avani), and now I can safely say that it is purely Scam. There is not even iota of change in the sound quality and in fact it was very loud all of a sudden but then I did something.
> 
> There is no change in Sample rate or bit rate or anything else. This proves that these Dongles and Connectors are scam from these Phone companies so people will spend money in buying them as 3.5mm Jack will not be there.
> 
> I knew that it is just marketing gimmick and just to increase sales by phone companies but as many guys here were saying that as I did not use it, I cannot say if that is good or not. But now I have used it and it just connect the phone without 3.5mm Jack to your earbuds. Your DAC receives Analog signal and passes to the earphones.


They only real advantage you bank on with a dongle is more power and there are only a couple that I’ve found that are 2 volts.  I’m pretty sure those are all made with the same chip.  The rest are 1v as far as I’ve seen and the Apple dongle has the cleanest measurements.  Maybe some of the others have a degree of Euphonic effect… they definitely measure different And there are definitely people who state they hear a difference.  I’m sure I have amps that sound different.   I use the Little Bear tube amp for the purpose of sounding different and euphonic with some headphones/program material.


----------



## gacyde

Hi Guys,
I need some tws earbud recommendation that has shape like airpods and the sound close to harman target curve.
Thanks for your help.


----------



## sainteb

Hey hello. VE Monk user looking for something new and fresh - any recommendations?


----------



## Nool

gacyde said:


> Hi Guys,
> I need some tws earbud recommendation that has shape like airpods and the sound close to harman target curve.
> Thanks for your help.


I just bought the soundpeats trueair2, and it's quite good for $28. It really sounds a lot like the gen2 airpods but with heavier bass. Similar technicalities, tuning, and soundstage. Still gotta spend more time with it before writing anything else but I'm pretty pleased with my purchase. Attached image is the EQ setting I'm using (along with the EQ I use on the airpods), everything's pretty well tuned. I added more bass for fun, but stock tuning is definitely a warm one, it might have as much bass as the yincrow X6 (both with foams).

Only problem I'm having with them is that the audio sometimes stutters on the left earbud after connecting to my phone, but it seems to clear up after a minute. I've only used them for a couple hours so far so I'm still not interested in posting a full review.

Also it's terrible for gaming, very hard to tell where footsteps/gunsots are coming from, even with the "game mode" activated.


----------



## Mimouille

Hello guys, I am leaving the game, and have a pair of Liebesleid to sell...check my sig. They are 4.4 balanced only


----------



## gacyde

Nool said:


> I just bought the soundpeats trueair2, and it's quite good for $28. It really sounds a lot like the gen2 airpods but with heavier bass. Similar technicalities, tuning, and soundstage. Still gotta spend more time with it before writing anything else but I'm pretty pleased with my purchase. Attached image is the EQ setting I'm using (along with the EQ I use on the airpods), everything's pretty well tuned. I added more bass for fun, but stock tuning is definitely a warm one, it might have as much bass as the yincrow X6 (both with foams).
> 
> Only problem I'm having with them is that the audio sometimes stutters on the left earbud after connecting to my phone, but it seems to clear up after a minute. I've only used them for a couple hours so far so I'm still not interested in posting a full review.
> 
> Also it's terrible for gaming, very hard to tell where footsteps/gunsots are coming from, even with the "game mode" activated.


I just bought it too 😆. For me it sounds inaccurate for most songs on my playlist. Thanks for the eq, i will try.

The problem that happen on your buds happen too on my unit. Everytime i walk far from phone then return back it always stutter.


----------



## emusic13

Ronion said:


> They are warmer/muddier and slower with a smaller soundstage than the Blur MX64.  However, the shell is a better fit for my ears.  Two different price points though and the LBBs are great for the money.


 Did you just call @RikudouGoku endgame muddy


----------



## Ronion

I did—but that doesn’t make it true.  Just relative to my Blur.  Compared to everything else I own, they are not muddy.


----------



## arar

One man's trash is another man's end game in a hobby as subjective as "listen to things" anyway


----------



## emusic13

arar said:


> One man's trash is another man's end game in a hobby as subjective as "listen to things" anyway


You're right. As long as we all enjoy our buds, I guess that's all that matters. This hobby is subjective depending on hearing ability, sources, type of music, etc. Some hyped buds might be endgame for some, to others pure trash.


----------



## tgx78

Ronion said:


> I did—but that doesn’t make it true.  Just relative to my Blur.  Compared to everything else I own, they are not muddy.


I love my LBBS (via THX AAA 789) so I am super excited to hear the MX64 sTe


----------



## sutosuto

Ronion said:


> I did—but that doesn’t make it true. Just relative to my Blur. Compared to everything else I own, they are not muddy.


How is the MS2 Pro 150ohm driver bass compare to your blur?

Thanks


----------



## Chessnaudio

Mimouille said:


> Hello guys, I am leaving the game, and have a pair of Liebesleid to sell...check my sig. They are 4.4 balanced only


How do they ompare to Moondrop Chaconne?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

emusic13 said:


> The bell type shell might be my favorite now because of how small it is. It sort of "hooks" into your ear.


It sounds like your ears are hugging the Bells with a deep, sincere love.


----------



## Scottyyy

So I've managed to lose my Fengru TC200s after 2 years of enjoying them. Can someone recommend a similarly priced replacement? They were amazing for £6/$10.

I have FAAEAL Iris 2.0 in my basket right now for £6. How do they compare? 

Any other recommendations would be great.


----------



## waynes world

Scottyyy said:


> So I've managed to lose my Fengru TC200s after 2 years of enjoying them. Can someone recommend a similarly priced replacement? They were amazing for £6/$10.
> 
> I have FAAEAL Iris 2.0 in my basket right now for £6. How do they compare?
> 
> Any other recommendations would be great.



I won't be the only one suggesting the Yincrow X6.


----------



## RikudouGoku

waynes world said:


> I won't be the only one suggesting the Yincrow X6.


You called?


----------



## Ronion

sutosuto said:


> How is the MS2 Pro 150ohm driver bass compare to your blur?
> 
> Thanks


I don’t have them in that shell right now so comparison would have to come from memory.  From memory, the Blur MX64 can’t touch the bass of the 150 Ohm driver.  The Blur bass is at least as clear, but not as deep.  The rest of the spectrum goes to the Blur however. The Blur PK32 beats it In depth and clarity.  Out of everything I’ve heard, the 150 Ohm SMABAT in the M2s Pro shell is the best deal.  I never got it perfected to the degree that the SO driver is in that shell, but it’s so close when you first plug it in that I never put in the effort.  It does add a metallic timbre whereas the Blur just seem to expose the natural timbre of the recorded instruments.


----------



## KutuzovGambit

Scottyyy said:


> So I've managed to lose my Fengru TC200s after 2 years of enjoying them. Can someone recommend a similarly priced replacement? They were amazing for £6/$10.
> 
> I have FAAEAL Iris 2.0 in my basket right now for £6. How do they compare?
> 
> Any other recommendations would be great.


I’ve really been enjoying the Qian39 for its excellent comfort and quite pleasant warm mid-centric tonality with very good soundstage. $5 from NiceHCK via their “lucky bag” listing which is always the Qian39.


----------



## Buchi

Ronion said:


> Did the M2s pro shell come with any tuning net installed?
> 
> im glad your initial impressions was the same as mine though—very bright!   The Type 1 filter is a must.


I asked Smabat about the filter that comes with the M2sPro shell and they said Type 1 which means the sub bass can't be improved with any of the filters.


----------



## Ronion

HeiGi foams should help and if they still don’t do it for you, try some shark fins that hold them more securely.


----------



## gazzington

I’ve started using earbuds a lot more recently. I’ve been working from home for the past 18 months and I find earbuds more comfortable.  I like that the flagships are way cheaper than flagship iems too!


----------



## Buchi

Ronion said:


> HeiGi foams should help and if they still don’t do it for you, try some shark fins that hold them more securely.


Thanks. I'm using double foams now.


----------



## Scottyyy

KutuzovGambit said:


> I’ve really been enjoying the Qian39 for its excellent comfort and quite pleasant warm mid-centric tonality with very good soundstage. $5 from NiceHCK via their “lucky bag” listing which is always the Qian39.


Thanks!

I'm going to get the Yincrow X6 and the Qian39 from the lucky bag.


----------



## n00b

Buchi said:


> I asked Smabat about the filter that comes with the M2sPro shell and they said Type 1 which means the sub bass can't be improved with any of the filters.


i think technically you can remove the filter for more bass, but after having done that i think having type 1 still sounds best. if i want more bass i go full foam + a donut foam around it as it doesn't drastically reduce clarity


----------



## Ronion

Comparing them to a ‘reference’ can like the HD650 let me know that when I tune on my own, I attempt to get them too bassy.  Having something keep you honest is a great way to tune.


----------



## Buchi

n00b said:


> i think technically you can remove the filter for more bass, but after having done that i think having type 1 still sounds best. if i want more bass i go full foam + a donut foam around it as it doesn't drastically reduce clarity


Thanks, I will order donut foams next. I used to have some but they all got bad.


----------



## HombreCangrejo

n00b said:


> i think technically you can remove the filter for more bass, but after having done that i think having type 1 still sounds best. if i want more bass i go full foam + a donut foam around it as it doesn't drastically reduce clarity


I removed initially the filters but, at least with SO driver, I find that with type 1 I have enough bass, and high mids/low treble are less hot, to the point that now I can have long sessions with them.


----------



## Ronion

HombreCangrejo said:


> I removed initially the filters but, at least with SO driver, I find that with type 1 I have enough bass, and high mids/low treble are less hot, to the point that now I can have long sessions with them.


Exactly my impression.


----------



## Mimouille

Chessnaudio said:


> How do they ompare to Moondrop Chaconne?





ClieOS said:


> Liebesleid has more mid bass as well as overall quantity. Chaconne has less bass but reaches down deeper. I won't consider Liebesleid to be a neutral sounding earbud, but Chaconne is closer to being one, though has a richer and ever so slightly warmer tone.


I haven't tried the Chaconne but Clieos gave a comparison here. I can tell you I have 3k+ iems and feel these sound wonderful. The only issue I have is earbuds don't fit me well in general.


----------



## n00b

HombreCangrejo said:


> I removed initially the filters but, at least with SO driver, I find that with type 1 I have enough bass, and high mids/low treble are less hot, to the point that now I can have long sessions with them.


yep, with super one and no filter the treble was too much for me and the bass was already deep enough and didnt feel improved with removing the driver.


----------



## Chessnaudio

Well I just bought my upgrade. Looking foward to @Mimouille's Moon Liebesleid. Very excited!


----------



## gazzington

I’ve not bought any earbuds for a while. I’ve ordered a shozy bk from penon today though


----------



## ValSuki

gazzington said:


> I’ve not bought any earbuds for a while. I’ve ordered a shozy bk from penon today though


Do give impressions! Ive heard great things from Shozy's buds


----------



## ValSuki

Hi folks~!

I wanted to ask something in regards to DIY buds. I plan on making handmade earbuds in the future with their own custom designed shells, unique but similar to others we have seen (mx500, yuin, qian39) what termination would you like me to add? I am open to ideas and suggestions!
This is things like 2pin and mmcx, or I could not bother and stick with the old attached cables. But I would like some interest on what you all like the idea of more


----------



## gazzington

ValSuki said:


> Do give impressions! Ive heard great things from Shozy's buds


Will do


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 10, 2021)

To all who suggested the Yincrow X6 for a budget bud, they are awesome! Thanks!
Love the trebles! Most of the low priced ones I've tried seem veiled and muddy, or bland, but the X6 is sparkly and clear and airy with a lively sounding midrange, with a good soundstage.
And the bass has good presence and is very good as well. They are exciting buds for the price.

What would be something with a similar signature to the X6's treble, etc, but would be a significant upgrade for less than $100?

Edited for clarity. pun unintended...


----------



## RikudouGoku

Blueshound24 said:


> To all who suggested the Yincrow X6 for a budget bud, they are awesome! Thanks!
> Love the trebles! Most of the low priced ones I've tried seem veiled and muddy, or bland, but the X6 is sparkly and clear and live sounding, with a good soundstage.
> And the mids and bass have good presence and are great as well. They are exciting buds for the price.
> 
> What would be something with a similar signature to the X6's treble, etc, but would be a significant upgrade for less than $100?


True upgrade for the X6 does not exist.

Unless you use PEQ with the LBBS.


----------



## MelodyMood

MelodyMood said:


> Yesterday I got the Dongle DAC I bought from VE Site (Avani), and now I can safely say that it is purely Scam. There is not even iota of change in the sound quality and in fact it was very loud all of a sudden but then I did something.
> 
> There is no change in Sample rate or bit rate or anything else. This proves that these Dongles and Connectors are scam from these Phone companies so people will spend money in buying them as 3.5mm Jack will not be there.
> 
> I knew that it is just marketing gimmick and just to increase sales by phone companies but as many guys here were saying that as I did not use it, I cannot say if that is good or not. But now I have used it and it just connect the phone without 3.5mm Jack to your earbuds. Your DAC receives Analog signal and passes to the earphones.


Admin blocked me fro one thread for posting the above. So I was right that the scam of removing 3.5mm Port benefited admin of this site too. No wonder why they are blindly favouring Dongles while it does not make any difference. And on top of that, they think that blocking someone will change the reality?


----------



## Nool

ValSuki said:


> Hi folks~!
> 
> I wanted to ask something in regards to DIY buds. I plan on making handmade earbuds in the future with their own custom designed shells, unique but similar to others we have seen (mx500, yuin, qian39) what termination would you like me to add? I am open to ideas and suggestions!
> This is things like 2pin and mmcx, or I could not bother and stick with the old attached cables. But I would like some interest on what you all like the idea of more


I've been interested in the m2s pro shell, mainly due to its integrated bass vent. I'd also like to buy just the female connector unit, then solder that to whatever dynamic driver you want.. that way you should be able to sample all the drivers on AliExpress relatively painlessly via the m2s pro system. Probably a lot easier to tune, too.

Really wish they'd sell just those single parts.


----------



## feverfive

Anyone care to lend some guidance to an earbuds newb?  So, I have 2 cheap sets ordered from AE (Yincrow X6 and the Qian39; will likely order K's Bell-LBs during 11/11 sales cuz I'm suddenly miserly, hahahaha) to get some idea of what types of buds will fit me.

Anyway, I think the X6 are based on MX500-style bud right?  Are more higher tier (read: costlier) sets like the Fiio EM5 and Yincrow RW2000 also MX500-style shells?


----------



## n00b

X6 is based on the MX500 shell. LBBS is K's smallest bell shape bud and fits best to me. Fiio EM5 has its own shape, it is similar to MX500 in that it's flat with a stem to be worn wire down.. it's a worse fit for me than MX500 as it wears slightly larger, especially with the bass flute on the back of the shell. The shell itself is fairly light which helps, but overall I would say it's a poor fit for my smaller-ish ears. RW2000 will be more forgiving since its MMCX compatible shell means you can wear the cable over the ear, and suspending the bud that way can help keep it in place. I think before looking at the RW2000 if you want to stay at a lower price tier you can consider the M2S Pro and possibly upgrade to the 150 ohm golden driver as well. I personally don't recommend the Fiio EM5 on tuning alone, not to mention price and fit.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 10, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> True upgrade for the X6 does not exist.
> 
> Unless you use PEQ with the LBBS.




That's a little hard to bite off in terms that there is no upgrade bud to the X6.
Or are you saying you would have to spend more than $100, and what would that be for?


----------



## feverfive

n00b said:


> X6 is based on the MX500 shell. LBBS is K's smallest bell shape bud and fits best to me. Fiio EM5 has its own shape, it is similar to MX500 in that it's flat with a stem to be worn wire down.. it's a worse fit for me than MX500 as it wears slightly larger, especially with the bass flute on the back of the shell. The shell itself is fairly light which helps, but overall I would say it's a poor fit for my smaller-ish ears. RW2000 will be more forgiving since its MMCX compatible shell means you can wear the cable over the ear, and suspending the bud that way can help keep it in place. I think before looking at the RW2000 if you want to stay at a lower price tier you can consider the M2S Pro and possibly upgrade to the 150 ohm golden driver as well. I personally don't recommend the Fiio EM5 on tuning alone, not to mention price and fit.


This is helpful, thank you.  I'm simply at the stage of trying to suss out what types of shells will fit me (and what some buds fit in which generic shell-type categories), so even though I absolutely do not want a collection, I figure I have no choice other than trying out several types and see what works for me.  Sound charateristics, for now, is of no concern...I mean, I KNOW what I am after, it's just that at this stage, all I care about is figuring out the fit part of the equation and going from there.


----------



## 1clearhead (Oct 10, 2021)

Blueshound24 said:


> To all who suggested the Yincrow X6 for a budget bud, they are awesome! Thanks!
> Love the trebles! Most of the low priced ones I've tried seem veiled and muddy, or bland, but the X6 is sparkly and clear and airy with a lively sounding midrange, with a good soundstage.
> And the bass has good presence and is very good as well. They are exciting buds for the price.
> 
> ...


Easy suggestion...Just move up to the *Yincrow RW-9*. Better sub-bass, less overly done mid-bass when compared to the X6, and nicer transparency and clarity with excellent details. But, don't take my word for it, just get one and hear the difference for yourself. Simple as that!

-Clear


----------



## uneri (Oct 20, 2021)

‎


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 11, 2021)

1clearhead said:


> Easy suggestion...Just move up to the *Yincrow RW-9*. Better sub-bass, less overly done mid-bass when compared to the X6, and nicer transparency and clarity with excellent details. But, don't take my word for it, just get one and hear the difference for yourself. Simple as that!
> 
> -Clear




Are all sellers on AliExpress ok for Yincrow? Any difference between sellers nicehck or ****?

Edit: that's weird. Head-Fi bleeped out the wxxxxxx seller?


----------



## gazzington

So, I have 3 blurs (love them) and a shozy bk on the way.  What are the flagships in earbuds like, eg symphonio Dragon, ksear bell, moondrop chaconne, rw-2000, turandot, sun dice....
I like music from classical, jazz to metal and electronic.  Is there a flagship that does all genres well?  Power isn't an issue as i have a desktop amp plus daps such as dx300 max and shanling m8


----------



## 1clearhead

Blueshound24 said:


> Are all sellers on AliExpress ok for Yincrow? Any difference between sellers nicehck or ****?
> 
> Edit: that's weird. Head-Fi bleeped out the wxxxxxx seller?


Most sellers are okay sending the Yincrow, but just follow Head-fi's precaution on certain sellers. You should be okay.

-Clear


----------



## RikudouGoku

Blueshound24 said:


> That's a little hard to bite off in terms that there is no upgrade bud to the X6.
> Or are you saying you would have to spend more than $100, and what would that be for?


No, there is nothing like it at all. I have already spent hundreds of dollars to find it and gave up. 

RW-9 is different from the X6, it is more V-shaped, so it isnt an upgrade to it. it is a side-grade.


----------



## arar

What foams if any are you fellow X6 Enjoyers using on them, btw?


----------



## RikudouGoku

arar said:


> What foams if any are you fellow X6 Enjoyers using on them, btw?


Full foams


----------



## gazzington

I think I need to get a yincrow x6!


----------



## gazzington

Work set up today. Dx300 max and blur buds. Lovely


----------



## Scuba Devils

I'll have to buy that X6, I see they are only €11 or so on AliExpress!


----------



## Scuba Devils

Ordered...


----------



## gazzington

ordered


----------



## gazzington

I love that earbuds are so much cheaper than iems. Means you can try more with out losing out if you don’t like something


----------



## akd032

I've been using my VE Monk Lites for a good few months and I've noticed an audible buzzing in the left earbud during low frequencies. Sounds like something has recently come loose inside the housing. Anyone know how to open up this type of housing? Seems stuck together really well.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 11, 2021)

arar said:


> What foams if any are you fellow X6 Enjoyers using on them, btw?



Donuts yield excellent presence and treble detail, IMO.


----------



## waynes world

Blueshound24 said:


> That's a little hard to bite off in terms that there is no upgrade bud to the X6.
> Or are you saying you would have to spend more than $100, and what would that be for?



Some prefer the X6, some prefer the RW9. Personally, I love them both. I initially had the RW9's and raved about them for many months.. I then got the X6's and raved about them for many months until they broke. I've been back listening to the RW9's and, well, you get it. There is a very good chance that you will really like the RW9's, so you know what you gotta do lol!


----------



## 1clearhead (Oct 11, 2021)

waynes world said:


> Some prefer the X6, some prefer the RW9. Personally, I love them both. I initially had the RW9's and raved about them for many months.. I then got the X6's and raved about them for many months until they broke. I've been back listening to the RW9's and, well, you get it. There is a very good chance that you will really like the RW9's, so you know what you gotta do lol!


Yup! Both are actually good. But, until everyone here gets to buy both, they will actually realize how much better detailed the RW-9 will be from sub-bass, MID's, and treble. I always say that it's a "bold statement" when someone claims for one set of earbuds to be the best no matter what price and sticks to that claim. It's impossible for one set of ears to be better than everyone else that's dedicated to enjoying music the same way. Unless, someone graduated from an Audiophile school with a doctor's degree, we're all in the same boat, lol! So, I agree with you, everyone knows what they got to do...just get both and decide for themselves. I'm sure no one will be disappointed with the RW-9.

Thumbs up, my friend...

-Clear


----------



## Nool

I'd personally buy the rw9, I prefer its tuning, same staging and overall resolution though. I've also had two of three X6's I bought die on me from the cable breaking; the rw9 is much more durable. Worth the extra $10 imo but if you have one there's no real reason to get the other.

This frequency response taken by @Sam L a while ago seems accurate to me.


----------



## 1clearhead (Oct 11, 2021)

Nool said:


> I'd personally buy the rw9, I prefer its tuning, same staging and overall resolution though. I've also had two of three X6's I bought die on me from the cable breaking; the rw9 is much more durable. Worth the extra $10 imo but if you have one there's no real reason to get the other.
> 
> This frequency response taken by @Sam L a while ago seems accurate to me.


+1 Agree!...Nice graph! You could see, plus hear the difference, especially in the sub-bass and higher details. It is definitely worth the extra $10.

PS. The X6 still sounds okay, but you could see in the graph how it has overly done mid-bass the same way it reminds me of the BL03's mid-bass.



This graph needs to be passed more often, IMHO.
Cheers! 

-Clear


----------



## LordZero

Anyone tried this?
Lenovo hf140


----------



## mervindc146

akd032 said:


> I've been using my VE Monk Lites for a good few months and I've noticed an audible buzzing in the left earbud during low frequencies. Sounds like something has recently come loose inside the housing. Anyone know how to open up this type of housing? Seems stuck together really well.


Have you tried blowing them from the side? sometimes this works but if not, you really should pry it open. Not an expert with that one though.


----------



## Ronion

My X6 has developed intermittent crackling in the right earpiece.  It doesn’t seem to correlate with music or cable positioning.  Anyone have any ideas?


----------



## waynes world

Ronion said:


> My X6 has developed intermittent crackling in the right earpiece.  It doesn’t seem to correlate with music or cable positioning.  Anyone have any ideas?



Have you tried sucking on it? (not joking lol)


----------



## assassin10000

Ronion said:


> My X6 has developed intermittent crackling in the right earpiece.  It doesn’t seem to correlate with music or cable positioning.  Anyone have any ideas?



A small piece of hair inside the cover occasionally.


----------



## Ronion (Oct 11, 2021)

waynes world said:


> Have you tried sucking on it? (not joking lol)


😂 I’ll give it a try.  It’ll have to wait until the wife and dog are not looking.  😆 If you are joking @waynes world, I’ll never forgive you.

A hair would make sense.  My Grado foams occasionally get hair in them and they make a similar Ouse, but it does typically correlate with what’s happening in the music.


----------



## Ronion (Oct 11, 2021)

well, I blew the earphone.  Not proud of it, but it sure did work!  Sweet!  X6 is back.  Changed the foams too….


----------



## arar

Blueshound24 said:


> Donuts yield excellent presence and treble detail, IMO.



Just tried switching and ya, I think I prefer this to the full foam. Just a bit more sorely needed clarity.

Cba to actually compare though, I thought I had fairly nimble fingers but getting the donuts on was a PAIN lol.


----------



## Buchi

Has anyone heard the VE Monk slim?


----------



## Scuba Devils

Buchi said:


> Has anyone heard the VE Monk slim?



Curious about this one also, especially as it has a 4.4mm option.


----------



## emusic13

Scuba Devils said:


> Curious about this one also, especially as it has a 4.4mm option.


It's well built and has a bright tuning.


----------



## akd032

mervindc146 said:


> Have you tried blowing them from the side? sometimes this works but if not, you really should pry it open. Not an expert with that one though.


Thanks, that seems to have worked


----------



## Buchi

Scuba Devils said:


> Curious about this one also, especially as it has a 4.4mm option.


Curious too but I want the 2.5mm


----------



## SiggyFraud

Buchi said:


> Curious too but I want the 2.5mm


They do sell it with 2.5mm. I bought one myself.


----------



## acroyear

Selling my Turandots in Headfi classifieds if anyone is interested. If this is breaking a rule here I apologize, but I thought someone might benefit because they're really nice...


----------



## jhawkes (Oct 12, 2021)

I would be extremely grateful if somebody out there could kindly share any experience they may have with the *3.5mm* version of the Simphonio Dragon 2+.





Apparently it has a different signature to the 2.5mm balanced version, which includes an adapter to 3.5mm. I’ve read all the reviews of that version.

I am absolutely torn between buying the Simphonio Dragon 2+ 3.5mm or the Shozy BK Stardust.

Any advise would be much appreciated. Thank you!


----------



## feverfive

Just curious if silicone rings like these actually work to help keep earbuds seated in your ear?  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002432593453.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.48c44c4dksgFCw





I have a Yincrow X6 and a Qian39 on the way, and I ordered these rings last night on impulse.  Guess I'm trying to justify said impulse, hahahahaha.


----------



## RikudouGoku

feverfive said:


> Just curious if silicone rings like these actually work to help keep earbuds seated in your ear?  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002432593453.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.48c44c4dksgFCw
> 
> 
> 
> I have a Yincrow X6 and a Qian39 on the way, and I ordered these rings last night on impulse.  Guess I'm trying to justify said impulse, hahahahaha.


They can work, if the shell is too small for example. those makes it a bit bigger.


----------



## ValSuki

Buchi said:


> Has anyone heard the VE Monk slim?


Yup! I have and they are a nice and relaxed sound with smooth highs and mids. Treble can be peaky but is easily fixed with double foams, or adventurous enough to remove the driver from the shell, remove the tuning foam from the back and add thinner amounts to increase bass. But for the most part, double foams is the easier solution.


----------



## emusic13

ValSuki said:


> Yup! I have and they are a nice and relaxed sound with smooth highs and mids. Treble can be peaky but is easily fixed with double foams, or adventurous enough to remove the driver from the shell, remove the tuning foam from the back and add thinner amounts to increase bass. But for the most part, double foams is the easier solution.


I noticed that you are selling your Blur. How do they compare?


----------



## MelodyMood

Is there any MMCX Version of *Yincrow RW-9*? I would like to buy it but the current one I see on AE do not have Mic and also L Shaped Plug which I do not prefer. PLease suggest if any MMCX Version available so I can use my MMCX Cable with Mic to use the earbuds. I read that it is better than *Yincrow X6* and have better Bass, Sub-Bass and Clarity too.  Thanks.


----------



## foniak

Should one use earbuds without foam? I would imagine the foam can quickly build up dust, mites and whatnot. While if you just put in the plastic, it's easier to keep clean. The foam helps the subbass, but I would rather lose some if I get a peace of mind when it comes to keeping your eardrums safe from anything that would buildup on the foams.


----------



## baskingshark

feverfive said:


> Just curious if silicone rings like these actually work to help keep earbuds seated in your ear?  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002432593453.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.48c44c4dksgFCw
> 
> 
> 
> I have a Yincrow X6 and a Qian39 on the way, and I ordered these rings last night on impulse.  Guess I'm trying to justify said impulse, hahahahaha.



I bought a few of these and they are extremely useful to secure a better fit. I primarily use them to increase the girth of the earbud (think of it as a filling), and I put a foam or donut foam over this.

But it is a YMMV situation, as we have different ear anatomies and ear sizes, but this silicone ring really saved me from getting rid of some earbuds which had a poor fit.



foniak said:


> Should one use earbuds without foam? I would imagine the foam can quickly build up dust, mites and whatnot. While if you just put in the plastic, it's easier to keep clean. The foam helps the subbass, but I would rather lose some if I get a peace of mind when it comes to keeping your eardrums safe from anything that would buildup on the foams.



I think some earbuds are designed to be used with foams. The full foams as u say add to some warmth and lower frequencies, so not using the foams (ie using the naked bud itself) will definitely change the sound signature. Not to mention the fit is also affected, as described above.

Actually the foams are sited outside the ear canal and if u just change the foam covers every few weeks (they are rather cheap usually), it is no issue with hygeine. Or just wipe the foam cover with a damp cloth after each listening session. If anything, IEMs which insert the eartip inside the ear canal, would be more unhygenic than earbuds, who's foams are outside the ear canal.


----------



## chavez

MelodyMood said:


> Is there any MMCX Version of *Yincrow RW-9*? I would like to buy it but the current one I see on AE do not have Mic and also L Shaped Plug which I do not prefer. PLease suggest if any MMCX Version available so I can use my MMCX Cable with Mic to use the earbuds. I read that it is better than *Yincrow X6* and have better Bass, Sub-Bass and Clarity too. Thanks.


Get RY4S Plus 32 Ohm mmcx version.


----------



## 1clearhead (Oct 13, 2021)

MelodyMood said:


> Is there any MMCX Version of *Yincrow RW-9*? I would like to buy it but the current one I see on AE do not have Mic and also L Shaped Plug which I do not prefer. PLease suggest if any MMCX Version available so I can use my MMCX Cable with Mic to use the earbuds. I read that it is better than *Yincrow X6* and have better Bass, Sub-Bass and Clarity too. Thanks.


Unfortunately, the only model that I know that Yincrow makes with detachable MMCX cables are the Yincrow RW-1000 and RW-2000 flagship model.

Yincrow RW-1000 is on sale now!
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002806939428.html

Hope this helps...

-Clear


----------



## firesign

chavez said:


> Get RY4S Plus 32 Ohm mmcx version.


I have one of these coming home


----------



## raymanh (Oct 13, 2021)

Hi,

I made a thread about this but another user reminded me this thread already exists, so I thought I'd ask here.

Basically, I'm looking for some audio equipment for a friend's birthday. I was originally going to get her an IEM, probably the BLON BL03's until she showed me what she wanted which was earbuds (she doesn't like how IEMs go in her ears). She likes to be able to hear her surroundings and doesn't have a preference to any kind of sound signature, but since most people like a V shape, something like that would be good. The only requirement she has is that they are durable and won't break like her previous earbuds have. So perhaps removable cables would be a plus, however may be quite hard to find at this budget.

So for about $20, what can I get? I have no clue about the earbud market.

I've already been recommended by fellow user @baskingshark the following:

Yincrow X6, RY4S Plus 32 ohm, and SMABAT M0.

The Yincrows, in terms of availability and sound sig. seem the best bet so far.

Thanks.

*ETA: *So the birthday is actually quite soon and I just realised that all these chi-fi products won't won't arrive on time. What buds from established brands are good? I can just get them in store.

How about these:

Philips SHE3000
Philips SHE2105
ATH C555
ATH C505

Thanks.


----------



## 1clearhead (Oct 15, 2021)

raymanh said:


> Hi,
> 
> I made a thread about this but another user reminded me this thread already exists, so I thought I'd ask here.
> 
> ...


+1 on the SMABAT M0. But, I can also suggest the JCALLY EP09, which also includes detachable cables and will sound excellent with the included sponges installed. If you still want to give Yincrow a try, for a little more than the X6, you can get the Yincrow RW-9, which offers better non-detachable wires and sound, and outlast the Yincrow X6 in durability. The wires come in different attractive colors, too. 

SMABAT M0
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003125110620.html

JCALLY
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003280681102.html

YINCROW RW-9
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32868456063.html


Hope this helps...


-Clear


----------



## MelodyMood

chavez said:


> Get RY4S Plus 32 Ohm mmcx version.


I already have it. It is nice actually. But I was wondering if RW-9 is good or may be better in some ways from RY4S Plus so I can experience it.


----------



## MelodyMood

raymanh said:


> Hi,
> 
> I made a thread about this but another user reminded me this thread already exists, so I thought I'd ask here.
> 
> ...


Ry4S Plus version is good. I have that. I also wanted to buy M0 Driver and Shell Module only (without Cable) but then did not see many good and clear reviews and it seems that the sound is thin and no Bass and sub bass is present so did not buy that. So I guess avoid M0 in my view.

Regarding the others, especially Audio Technica ones, I would also like to know how do they sound? They do have Mic versions also of ATH C555 and some others (with i at the end of the model name/number). But Philips and AT driver size are too small for any impact-full sound.


----------



## foniak

I dropped my Nicehck eb2 and the left one is lossing sound looks like it may be the cable. I dont know how to fix stuff so I want to buy a new one. Which one that is an improvement or as good would you buy?


----------



## Nool

MelodyMood said:


> I already have it. It is nice actually. But I was wondering if RW-9 is good or may be better in some ways from RY4S Plus so I can experience it.


Ry4s+ 32ohm had similar staging and resolution, just worse tuning than x6/rw9. They might use the same 15.5mm 32ohm dynamic drivers.

The stem on a mx500 shell acts as a bass vent. Take any mx500 earbud you have, seal the stem with some putty, and you'll hear less bass. Sealing the mx500 stem with an mmcx jack is probably what messed up the tuning on the ry4s+.


----------



## dw1narso (Oct 15, 2021)

dw1narso said:


> I feel the same.. Somehow X6 does not sync well with Qudelix 5K.. The mid become muddy and too V shape..
> 
> X6 sounded better with CXPro CX31993


Just like to update a bit on my progress with Yincrow X6...

I recently receive my Tempotec Sonata E44... I'm surprised that for such a cheap earbuds, it scale up with better source.
It seems crazy to drive $8 buds with $80 source... (No, it will not turn X6 into Heart Mirror ) ...but it showed that X6 driver has potential more than I thought... every frequency sections improved quite significantly. The bass also became better in control with tighter sound.
One thing that might explain this is that X6 actually need source (read: final gain stage) that has a good grip to the load. _(EDIT: pardon my English   "grip", not "gripe)_

PS. E44 really, really sound sweet... I really wish Tempotec make it in more friendly shape like Sonata Pro and BHD for longevity


----------



## Penon (Oct 16, 2021)

*SHOZY BK 4.4mmm version is available now  *

Japan imported Bispa 4.4mm balanced gold-plated plug
Cable entry aperture: 5mm
Shell diameter: 9mm
Shell material: bronze nickel-plated

https://penonaudio.com/shozy-bk-black.html


----------



## Scuba Devils

Penon said:


> *SHOZY BK 4.4mmm version is available now  *
> 
> Japan imported Bispa 4.4mm balanced gold-plated plug
> Cable entry aperture: 5mm
> ...



Excellent, I'll certainly be buying one at some point!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Penon said:


> *SHOZY BK 4.4mmm version is available now  *
> 
> Japan imported Bispa 4.4mm balanced gold-plated plug
> Cable entry aperture: 5mm
> ...


A highly recommended classic earbud... truly a blast from the past! Penon has confirmed that they are indeed using the same 16Ω driver as the original 2016 version, as well as the original brown cable and not the reissued dark grey one that many people disliked.


*2016 - Shozy 大黑 Big Black (BK) Stardust* (16Ω; w/ NTT DoCoMo "New Variant" driver)
Shozy Stardust BKs are really hard to beat as their signature is super friendly and nearly neutral... very natural and airy sounding while ever so slightly leaning towards warm... almost like an upside down U signature. So they are not too far off from being reference with most music genres. The older original version with the brown cable is ever so slightly warmer sounding which some people found them to be less dry (lifeless) than the reissued version that came with the dark grey colored cable (I myself could not distinguish a difference between the two but others do have better hearing than I so there is that to consider).

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16553591


----------



## furyossa

Penon said:


> *SHOZY BK 4.4mmm version is available now  *
> 
> Japan imported Bispa 4.4mm balanced gold-plated plug
> Cable entry aperture: 5mm
> ...


I hope you will consider adding back the *HE150* in stock. All MX500 shell fans will appreciate this


----------



## Scuba Devils

I'm torn now between Shozy BK and VE Zen for my next bud!


----------



## Scuba Devils

I note though that the VE Zen is 320 ohms - would the likes of the L&P W2 or Sony NW-WM1A be able to drive them?


----------



## emusic13 (Oct 16, 2021)

Scuba Devils said:


> I note though that the VE Zen is 320 ohms - would the likes of the L&P W2 or Sony NW-WM1A be able to drive them?


I have L and P W2, it can drive the Zen. I'm not sure how much you would like them though since to many, they are considered "dark". Especially considering how your currently owned Blur and EM5 are "bright"


----------



## Scuba Devils

emusic13 said:


> I have L and P W2, it can drive the Zen. I'm not sure how much you would like them though since to many, they are considered "dark". Especially considering how your currently owned Blur and EM5 are "bright"



Interesting they are considered dark - EM5 is warm compared to Blur, but not overly warm as such - just by comparison, certainly a smoother listen. I'd say it sits between my mx150 and pk32 in terms of early impressions. 

I see you have Shozy BK too, what are your thoughts vs Zen? Keen to try another brand now!


----------



## Nool

I posted my thoughts on the SoundPEATS TrueAir2 https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/so...2-qualcomm-qcc3040.24797/reviews#review-27035

Overall these are great for $30, if I had to guess they're probably A= in tuning and B+ in technicalities, something around there. If they die on me I'll probably check out the Fiil CC2, till then I'll be using them as my daily buds.


----------



## emusic13

Scuba Devils said:


> Interesting they are considered dark - EM5 is warm compared to Blur, but not overly warm as such - just by comparison, certainly a smoother listen. I'd say it sits between my mx150 and pk32 in terms of early impressions.
> 
> I see you have Shozy BK too, what are your thoughts vs Zen? Keen to try another brand now!


I'd recommend the BK then based on what you have unless you just want to explore other earbud signatures. I personally use Zen 2 foamless so I don't find it "dark" It is a warm sounding earbud though. The BK I would say is a smooth neutral sounding bud. Its an "OG" for PK style buds so its a must for an earbud collection imo. Theres a 4.4 version as well.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Oct 17, 2021)

Scuba Devils said:


> I note though that the VE Zen is 320 ohms - would the likes of the L&P W2 or Sony NW-WM1A be able to drive them?





emusic13 said:


> I have L and P W2, it can drive the Zen.


Concur; they are not difficult to drive as they have a high sensitivity of 108dB/mW. It only requires <1V @ <2.25 mA (<1.6 mW) to reach 110dB SPL. I really didn't notice much scaling (lower bass improvement) once I reached 1V or higher. This is due to Lee always seeking drivers and creating earbuds that are mobile audiophile friendly. I don't think I have heard a single VE earbud that didn't play well out of a mobile phone or DAP to include the Dice. Of course some of these higher models do sound better when powered but not remarkably so.





@ 1Vrms





emusic13 said:


> I'd recommend the BK then based on what you have unless you just want to explore other earbud signatures. I personally use Zen 2 foamless so I don't find it "dark" It is a warm sounding earbud though. The BK I would say is a smooth neutral sounding bud. Its an "OG" for PK style buds so its a must for an earbud collection imo. Theres a 4.4 version as well.


Yes, this is a very nice earbud and has been highly recommended for years now. If I hadn't fallen into the PureSounds, Ksearphones, and Blur earphones rabbit holes I would still be sitting on a pair. I was late in the game acquiring these not securing a pair until 2020 but if I recall correctly I replaced them soon after with much newer earbud tech when I got my Ks Bell-Ti 120 and a pair of Turandots which although a completely different signature was a slight step up in overall "liveliness" with that magical  "sparkle" but without the sibilance that I detest and am very sensitive to.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

Today I decided to print my long-designed and doped shells for 2pin connectors and this is what happened:


Spoiler












There is one expansion slot in the shell, which is enough for an acoustic chamber and bass. The camera was reduced because there was a lot of bass and because of it, the mid-highs turned into a mess, and the comfort of landing improved significantly (and outwardly sympathetic).

You can *download *the file for printing here:
https://cloud.mail.ru/public/nQAU/Nvg8jv1Xs

PS should be printed on the outside of the shell (leg). Shell sits down firmly in the speaker (but it depends on the plastic / printer, although there shouldn't be any problems). For damping, it is necessary to use a horseshoe foam rubber and glue it to the inside of the shell (in fact, as with a regular mx500 shell). The 2pin plug sits fine, but for durability it is advisable to put it on superglue. The designation (+) and (-) of the connector can be thought of and done as you want, for example, on the minus, a recess is made on the 2pin itself with a soldering iron.

I think that this project can be called finished


----------



## BotByte

Nool said:


> I posted my thoughts on the SoundPEATS TrueAir2 https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/so...2-qualcomm-qcc3040.24797/reviews#review-27035
> 
> Overall these are great for $30, if I had to guess they're probably A= in tuning and B+ in technicalities, something around there. If they die on me I'll probably check out the Fiil CC2, till then I'll be using them as my daily buds.


I've got a pair of these and rather like them as well. Good for something cheap to throw on, and relatively small in terms of ear pieces and case. I grab these when I run out to go shopping or have stuff to do and want to listen to audiobooks. SQ is quite good in terms of pricing, and it's got surprisingly good soundstage for a ported design compared to other ported designs.

Only issue for me is comfort. They do hook into my ears well (enough I can do pushups), but for some reason the case within my ear feels a bit too thick, and the angle of the port is a bit too much--compared to Apple Earpods. I sort of solved this by throwing on medium-density donut foams which makes them squeeze into the case a bit, but improve long-wear comfort.


----------



## firesign (Oct 17, 2021)

I recently received a couple of R4YS, and I wonder: any brighter earbud (bass is ok, but I am missing a lot of treble) and with a smallest capsule (it bothers me a bit in my ears, which IEMs do not do)?


----------



## sunsun89

firesign said:


> I recently received a couple of R4YS, and I wonder: any brighter earbud (bass is ok, but I am missing a lot of treble) and with a smallest capsule (it bothers me a bit in my ears, which IEMs do not do)?


ksearphone LBBS maybe?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

sunsun89 said:


> ksearphone LBBS maybe?


Sizing yes, but they are far from being bright if that is indeed what *@firesign* is after. A great earbud recommendation nonetheless.


----------



## sunsun89

WoodyLuvr said:


> Sizing yes, but they are far from being bright if that is indeed what *@firesign* is after. A great earbud recommendation nonetheless.


ve monk SM? lol


----------



## WoodyLuvr

sunsun89 said:


> ve monk SM? lol


Sorry, you lost me there. Please clarify.


----------



## sunsun89

WoodyLuvr said:


> Sorry, you lost me there. Please clarify.


then what is your recomendation bud with soundsig bright and has smal housing?

because i want to know too.


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Sorry, you lost me there. Please clarify.


I think they meant if this one fits the bill.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003129391095.html


----------



## Charlyro222

RikudouGoku said:


> I think they meant if this one fits the bill.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003129391095.html


Did you ever try any Blur model?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Charlyro222 said:


> Did you ever try any Blur model?


No I havent. And not interested either. LBBS killed all my interest in getting more buds.


----------



## SiggyFraud

WoodyLuvr said:


> Sorry, you lost me there. Please clarify.


I think he means whether VE Monk SM is a good recommendation, considering it has a bright signature.


----------



## Charlyro222

RikudouGoku said:


> No I havent. And not interested either. LBBS killed all my interest in getting more buds.


So perhaps I'll must have a try to LBBS. 
Any Aliexpress link?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Charlyro222 said:


> So perhaps I'll must have a try to LBBS.
> Any Aliexpress link?


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html


----------



## firesign

Charlyro222 said:


> Did you ever try any Blur model?


Ey "compañero"!

The original question was asked by me.

No, I have never tried a Blur earbud. But I know that they are much more expensive than for example the one I have right now (RY4S), and I don't want to try blindly.

I see that you have a couple of them, and that you expect 3 more. I see you like them. From what you already know about the ones you have tried:
- Is the capsule smaller than that of the RY4S?
- Do they have a brighter signature? I had been recommended the Blur OFC mx64 STE aPs as I love the sound of the Oriolus Isabellae


----------



## emusic13

Charlyro222 said:


> So perhaps I'll must have a try to LBBS.
> Any Aliexpress link?


Personally, I found the LBBS better sounding.


----------



## firesign

RikudouGoku said:


> No I havent. And not interested either. LBBS killed all my interest in getting more buds.



Is LBBS really that good?

Will the capsule be smaller / more comfortable for the ear than the MX500 of the RY4S?


----------



## Charlyro222 (Oct 18, 2021)

firesign said:


> Ey "compañero"!
> 
> The original question was asked by me.
> 
> ...


I don't know how RY4S is, but I can tell you that 189 mx64 or 266 pk32 are both on next level above from my Isabellae.
189 if you like better soundstage layering and separation, 266 if you like more intimate vocals and better bass.


----------



## Charlyro222

RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html


Ordered. 
Thank you. 
Will post my impressions when arrives.


----------



## RikudouGoku

firesign said:


> Is LBBS really that good?


Yes, why else would I not be interested in getting more buds lol. 







firesign said:


> Will the capsule be smaller / more comfortable for the ear than the MX500 of the RY4S?


It is a lot smaller than the mx500 shell. And to me very comfortable.


----------



## Narayan23

RikudouGoku said:


> No I havent. And not interested either. *LBBS killed all my interest in getting more buds*.


Just the perfect excuse to get them! That and the fact my RY4S 32 MMCX with a pretty XINHS cable are not being used at all and I´m looking for something a bit more clear sounding than the X6 to complement it. The RY4S impressed during the first couple minutes with its clarity and good bass quantity and quality, as more minutes went by that clarity revealed itself for what it was, a brightness that made me reach for the X6 every time, I was going to relegate them to movies / gaming but their size makes them uncomfortable for me so they´re now in the "gift, friends-family" queue.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Narayan23 said:


> Just the perfect excuse to get them! That and the fact my RY4S 32 MMCX with a pretty XINHS cable are not being used at all and I´m looking for something a bit more clear sounding than the X6 to complement it. The RY4S impressed during the first couple minutes with its clarity and good bass quantity and quality, as more minutes went by that clarity revealed itself for what it was, a brightness that made me reach for the X6 every time, I was going to relegate them to movies / gaming but their size makes them uncomfortable for me so they´re now in the "gift, friends-family" queue.


The LBBS is brighter than the X6 though. 

(you can use EQ to make it the true upgrade for the X6.)


----------



## Narayan23

RikudouGoku said:


> The LBBS is brighter than the X6 though.
> 
> (you can use EQ to make it the true upgrade for the X6.)


Yes, I´m looking for something slightly brighter, though not as bright as the RY4S, I think you have the 300 Ohm version? How is the treble vs the LBBs?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Narayan23 said:


> Yes, I´m looking for something slightly brighter, though not as bright as the RY4S, I think you have the 300 Ohm version? How is the treble vs the LBBs?


Yeah I do have the 300ohm version and it is not good lol.

Even the X6 is better in it in the treble.


----------



## Scuba Devils

Sounds like I need to order a set of those LBBS too, very high praise. 

A selection of foams arrived today from AE, should keep me going for the rest of my life 🤪 Some donut foams in there too and a few other variations of thickness etc, look forward to some foam rolling!


----------



## ian91

Scuba Devils said:


> Sounds like I need to order a set of those LBBS too, very high praise.
> 
> A selection of foams arrived today from AE, should keep me going for the rest of my life 🤪 Some donut foams in there too and a few other variations of thickness etc, look forward to some foam rolling!



A sure sign the earbud rabbit hole has been entered - a draw full of foams more colourful than your favourite childrens clown. Love it!


----------



## firesign (Oct 18, 2021)

ian91 said:


> A sure sign the earbud rabbit hole has been entered - a draw full of foams more colourful than your favourite childrens clown. Love it!


Do you have all the Blur models?  

I'm thinking of buying one of them, but I don't know which one to get.

My favorite IEMs are without a doubt the Mest, closely followed by the Isabellae.

And if I have to choose between tonality and technicalities, I would stick with tonality. The more similar to the Isabellae (powerful bass, sweet mids and highs with a lot of extension) the better.

Oh, and I'm a fan of small capsules.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Oct 18, 2021)

sunsun89 said:


> ve monk SM? lol





sunsun89 said:


> then what is your recomendation bud with soundsig bright and has smal housing?
> 
> because i want to know too.





RikudouGoku said:


> I think they meant if this one fits the bill.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003129391095.html





SiggyFraud said:


> I think he means whether VE Monk SM is a good recommendation, considering it has a bright signature.





Narayan23 said:


> Yes, I´m looking for something slightly brighter, though not as bright as the RY4S, I think you have the 300 Ohm version? How is the treble vs the LBBs?


Ah, got you now... sorry the ole gray matter was failing me there. I haven't heard the *2021 - VE Monk Slim Metal PK Standard Edition* *(32Ω; aka "Monk SM")* yet as I am holding out for the 150Ω upgrade version soon-to-be-released. Trying to think of a brighter and/or more aggressive small shelled earbud and the Turandot (16Ω) is the only one that comes to mind at the moment. The Turandot is more forward and aggressive than it is bright but most definitely further over to the right leaning towards bright more than the *2020 - K's Temperament 小黑铃 Bell-LBBs (30Ω)*.

Another possible option would be the *2020 - Rose Technics Maria II (14Ω)* in the smaller 14.8mm size. This is a bright signature earbud in comparison to all. Has a nice sparkle to it but unfortunately it is very fatiguing for me to use for nay length of time (I am hyper sensitive to sibilant and bright signature). The Maria II is well regarded... so much so, that I had to put it on my *god-tier list*.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

firesign said:


> Do you have all the Blur models?
> 
> I'm thinking of buying one of them, but I don't know which one to get.
> 
> ...


That will be a tough one mate as the *UE Mest* is a balanced signature leaning earphone... it's U-Shaped signature is nearly completely opposite of the Blur House Sound tuning which is very mid-centric focused with strong mid-forward tendencies (an acquired taste most definitely). *@ian91 *what do you think?


----------



## jkjk123

@RikudouGoku 

What are your thoughts on LBBS + PEQ vs. Smabat M2s Pro for mostly electronic/EDM/pop music?

Does LBBS + PEQ match the M2s Pro in bass extension and quality? Seems like LBBS has better vocals and treble from your review.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jkjk123 said:


> @RikudouGoku
> 
> What are your thoughts on LBBS + PEQ vs. Smabat M2s Pro for mostly electronic/EDM/pop music?
> 
> Does LBBS + PEQ match the M2s Pro in bass extension and quality? Seems like LBBS has better vocals and treble from your review.


LBBS + PEQ is the best bud I have. I take it over even the Chaconne, simply because of the sub-bass that you get on it matches well with my library. 

So yeah, it beats the M2S Pro as well.


----------



## assassin10000 (Oct 18, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html



Just am FYI, the white and mic versions are also the newer LBBS driver/tunings. I ordered a 2021 mic version for modding as it was cheaper, and it was better sounding than the 2020 white I already have.

I even checked resistance to see if the mic cable had higher resistance on one side than the other, as some crap cables do. It does not. No channel imbalance either.

I've had the original 2019 & older (warm tuning), the 2020 (white) and have 2x of the 2021 (w/mic).



firesign said:


> Ey "compañero"!
> 
> The original question was asked by me.
> 
> ...


Any blur MX* is the same mx500 style shell as the ry4s, and thus the same size.


firesign said:


> Is LBBS really that good?
> 
> Will the capsule be smaller / more comfortable for the ear than the MX500 of the RY4S?


LBBS is smaller and more comfortable in my smaller concha.


----------



## Philimon (Oct 18, 2021)

Newb question: how do I order from aliexpress? Its not in english and I cant find an english version link.

I would like to start with a Yincrow RW-9. Id also like to order some of those silicone gaskets for improving fit.

Preference: bassy, warm, dim highs. Some call it mud. Negative slope frequency response.

Other recommendation instead of RW-9 thats not too expensive would be appreciated. Expediency (like from amazon) would be worthy.

This is my first earbud in awhile.* Had original Yuin PK1 back in the day and preferred to use over my full-size headphones… Then I lost my PK1 like 7years ago and havent really tried earbuds since. Its time to revisit but my tonal preferences have changed (old man now). Yincrow RW-9 sounds like a good place for me to start.

* In between Ive bought a few rando earbuds from Amazon but didnt like any of them: very coloured, lacked decent bass.

Porta Pro is the greatest headphone of all time imo. Something that sounds like that would be great. Porta Pro is only headphone Ive kept pretty much the entire span of being a member here. Next closest in tenure would be an old Sennheiser PX100 that eventually broke. Then after that would be the Yuin PK1.


----------



## uneri (Nov 11, 2021)

‎


----------



## firesign

assassin10000 said:


> Just am FYI, the white and mic versions are also the newer LBBS driver/tunings. I ordered a 2021 mic version for modding as it was cheaper, and it was better sounding than the 2020 white I already have.
> 
> I even checked resistance to see if the mic cable had higher resistance on one side than the other, as some crap cables do. It does not. No channel imbalance either.
> 
> ...


Thanks. The LBBS is in my wish list until 11.11 or the Aliexpress sale days.


----------



## sunsun89

uneri said:


> Yes, as announced by K's Earphone recently, the white version has now been upgraded to using the same driver and tuning as the LBBs.
> Correspondingly, the price of the white version has also been increased to that of the LBBs (previously, it was the same price as the black with mic version).
> 
> There's been no mention of the black with mic version getting the same LBBs upgrade in driver and tuning like the white version, so I would still advise getting the LBBs to avoid any potential disappointment in sound.
> ...


What mod you did?
Between 2019 and LBB with mic, which one is better?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

firesign said:


> Thanks. The LBBS is in my wish list until 11.11 or the Aliexpress sale days.


Please note that there is a *LBS* (an older model) out there... so as to not confuse with *LBBs aka LBBS*.

*2018 - K's Temperament 小铃 Bell-LBS 30Ω *_(aka "Original Little Bell-Silver")_
*2020 - K's Temperament 小黑铃 Bell-LBBs 30Ω* _(aka "New Little Black Bell S")_


----------



## firesign

WoodyLuvr said:


> Please note that there is a *LBS* (an older model) out there... so as to not confuse with *LBBs aka LBBS*.
> 
> *2018 - K's Temperament 小铃 Bell-LBS 30Ω *_(aka "Original Little Bell-Silver")_
> *2020 - K's Temperament 小黑铃 Bell-LBBs 30Ω* _(aka "New Little Black Bell S")_


I have added the one RikudouGoku said before:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html






It says BellLBs, but I think it’s the good one, isn’t it?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Oct 19, 2021)

firesign said:


> I have added the one RikudouGoku said before:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html
> 
> ...


Yes, that is the correct model that you want; was just warning you and others to be careful with other stores that are still selling the older and horrible sounding LBS model still. Unfortunately, consistent & clear naming is not a strong suit of any store on AliExpress or Taobao but you are safe ordering from Jim @ NiceHCK (speaking of which I haven't heard directly from him since before the Chinese (Lunar) New Year... has anyone else? Strange that he has been so quiet).


----------



## 1clearhead (Oct 19, 2021)

Philimon said:


> Newb question: how do I order from aliexpress? Its not in english and I cant find an english version link.
> 
> I would like to start with a Yincrow RW-9. Id also like to order some of those silicone gaskets for improving fit.
> 
> ...


You could try the link below on Aliexpress to order the Yincrow RW-9...
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32868456063.html

*NOTE:* But, according to your preference of sounding warmer at a cheaper price (note your bolded words), you might want to get the Yincrow X6 instead...
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32792292194.html

*-*Both links above should be in English.

Finally, I guess someone else could pitch in about sending you a link for the silicone gaskets for improving your personal fit.


Hope I was able to help...


-Clear


----------



## baskingshark

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, that is the correct model that you want; was just warning you and others to be careful with other stores that are still selling the older and horrible sounding LBS model still. Unfortunately, consistent & clear naming is not a strong suit of any store on AliExpress or Taobao but you are safe ordering from Jim @ NiceHCK (speaking of which I haven't heard directly from him since before the Chinese (Lunar) New Year... has anyone else? Strange that he has been so quiet).



I spoke to Jim on aliexpress about 2 months back, wanted to buy something from his NiceHCK store, he gave a discount for me as a returning customer.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

baskingshark said:


> I spoke to Jim on aliexpress about 2 months back, wanted to buy something from his NiceHCK store, he gave a discount for me as a returning customer.


Great to hear! Thank you for letting me know that. Cheers.


----------



## Philimon

1clearhead said:


> You could try the link below on Aliexpress to order the Yincrow RW-9...
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32868456063.html
> 
> *NOTE:* But, according to your preference of sounding warmer at a cheaper price (note your bolded words), you might want to get the Yincrow X6 instead...
> ...



Thanks. I was able to figure out how to change the website to english. But checking out wouldnt complete using my iPhone. Website kept getting stuck loading… Im going to try ordering using my macbook. But before I do is there any differences between Yincrow X6 versions? If I recall correctly some sellers note “latest version” or “2018 version”. Nevermind, Ill just order the one you directly linked for me. Thanks again!


----------



## Philimon (Oct 19, 2021)

What a pain. I keep getting this message when trying to check out (see attached). Tips?

These silicone gaskets seem kinda pricey. Is there another that fits Yincrow X6? I added 4 pairs of Yincrow X6 to cart, but only added 3 pairs of silicone gasket because kinda pricey ...
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002432593453.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.78243c00Fj1U1l&mp=1

Ya, 4 pairs, extras for gifting. I expect them to be good. Dont let me down HeadFiiiii

edit: I use Firefox on both devices. Ill try Chrome


----------



## Philimon

Now I am on Chrome. What am I doing wrong?


----------



## Philimon

So tried using the mobile app this time. Signing into aliexpress account doesnt work. Says “Account is abnormal” even after going through whatever verify steps. So try using my google account instead but then get Error 403: disallowed_useragent. 

Ugh


----------



## Billyak

Last time I ordered something from AliExpress I had to charge back the amount through PayPal due to my order not getting processed until I entered more personal information such as telephone number etc. 

Why do they need your telephone number?


----------



## Philimon

aaa


Billyak said:


> Last time I ordered something from AliExpress I had to charge back the amount through PayPal due to my order not getting processed until I entered more personal information such as telephone number etc.
> 
> Why do they need your telephone number?


Ya I gave up telephone number too in order to “verify”. I also tried registering by using Apple ID but that didnt work. Normally Id stay away from such a site but I want some Yincrow X6 gotdammit!


----------



## Philimon

Anyone want to sell their X6 or order some for me? Ill paypal you the amount and a service fee on top.


----------



## feverfive

Huh, weird you're having so many issues.  Have you tried clearing your browser cache?

Anyway, I ordered an X6 & Qian39 buds about a week ago.  I had no issues.


----------



## Philimon

But I tried so many browsers, devices, and apps… Ill try clearing. Oh my balls


----------



## Philimon

I cleared cache, removed blockers and tracking protections etc. Still gets stuck on this screen with firefox and iphone. Ill try safari next.


----------



## SolaVirtus

Philimon said:


> But I tried so many browsers, devices, and apps… Ill try clearing. Oh my balls


I happened to get a 2nd set (X6 with mic) on my recent order that I could part with. PM me if you like.


----------



## Philimon

Very kind @SolaVirtus . Let me try one last time but with Safari. I'm currently at phone number verification stage. Says it could take up to 10min to receive a text message... So expect a pm from me to buy from you in about 10min please. Thank you.


----------



## Philimon (Oct 19, 2021)

Finally went through. Received a text message and verified. PayPal and everything worked. I streamlined my order by making all from same seller (Nicehck). Only ordered 3 X6 and 3 pairs of gaskets. The silicone gaskets couldn't be bought in a pack of 4, the next step up from 3 was 5 but I didn't want 5 copies of X6.

If I like X6, then is there another level up or is it the best earbud with that tone?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Philimon said:


> If I like X6, then is there another level up or is it the only earbud with that tonal signature?


K´s LBBS + PEQ


----------



## Philimon

PEQ means parametric equalizer or is PEQ the name of an earbud? Can't I PEQ many different earbuds to sound similar?  Are the K's LBBS that much more resolving? ... details, transients, impact, lacking offensive ringing, etc etc


----------



## waynes world

Philimon said:


> Finally went through. Received a text message and verified. PayPal and everything worked. I streamlined my order by making all from same seller (Nicehck). Only ordered 3 X6 and 3 pairs of gaskets. The silicone gaskets couldn't be bought in a pack of 4, the next step up from 3 was 5 but I didn't want 5 copies of X6.
> 
> If I like X6, then is there another level up or is it the best earbud with that tone?



Happy you completed it! Nicehck (Jim) is a great seller.



> Preference: bassy, warm, dim highs. Some call it mud. Negative slope frequency response.



I love the X6 and RW-9, but based on your preferences, you might find the X6 a bit too V-shaped.

I've had a few "negative slope frequency response" types earbuds and enjoyed the warmth and the non-screeching highs. But ultimately I prefer a bit more clarity and highs, and the likes of the X6/RW9 seem to be the sweet spot for me. It will be interesting to see how you like the X6's.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Philimon said:


> PEQ means parametric equalizer or is PEQ the name of an earbud? Can't I PEQ many different earbuds to sound similar?  Are the K's LBBS that much more resolving? ... details, transients, impact, lacking offensive ringing, etc etc


Yes, parametric eq. 

You can't just eq anything into the x6... 

The LBBS is possible because of how good It already is and how well it responds to eq.


----------



## Philimon

waynes world said:


> I've had a few "negative slope frequency response" types earbuds and enjoyed the warmth and the non-screeching highs.


Would you mind naming them please?



RikudouGoku said:


> The LBBS is possible because of how good It already is and how well it responds to eq.


What if I wont or cant use PEQ. Then do you have a recommendation?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Philimon said:


> What if I wont or cant use PEQ. Then do you have a recommendation?


Nothing exists then. I tried, but found nothing except a wallet missing a few hundred dollars lol.


----------



## Philimon

waynes world said:


> But ultimately I prefer a bit more clarity and highs, and the likes of the X6/RW9 seem to be the sweet spot for me.


Do you find these measurements to be representative of your subjective impressions?
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3310#post-15902390


----------



## waynes world (Oct 19, 2021)

Philimon said:


> Would you mind naming them please?



Seahf AWK-F150C
Faaeal Snow-lotus 2.0 <-- could be wrong about this one - need to listen to it again
Kube V2 <-- still very enjoyable


----------



## gazzington

Still relatively inexperienced in earbuds online in iems and headphones.
Are there earbuds that are great for specific genres?
Eg edm, classical, jazz and metal


----------



## Ronion

1clearhead said:


> You could try the link below on Aliexpress to order the Yincrow RW-9...
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32868456063.html
> 
> *NOTE:* But, according to your preference of sounding warmer at a cheaper price (note your bolded words), you might want to get the Yincrow X6 instead...
> ...


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...sceneId":"3339","sku_id":"12000024274687621"}

comes with a few nice foams and shark fins too.


----------



## Ronion

Philimon said:


> I cleared cache, removed blockers and tracking protections etc. Still gets stuck on this screen with firefox and iphone. Ill try safari next.


I have never had issues through Safari.  Good luck.


----------



## assassin10000

uneri said:


> Yes, as announced by K's Earphone recently, the white version has now been upgraded to using the same driver and tuning as the LBBs.
> Correspondingly, the price of the white version has also been increased to that of the LBBs (previously, it was the same price as the black with mic version).
> 
> There's been no mention of the black with mic version getting the same LBBs upgrade in driver and tuning like the white version, so I would still advise getting the LBBs to avoid any potential disappointment in sound.
> ...



I compared my '20 white vs the '21 mic and they do have slightly different tonality (sound signatures).







sunsun89 said:


> What mod you did?
> Between 2019 and LBB with mic, which one is better?



If you meant to direct that to me. I prefer the mic version.

As far as modding goes: MMCX modded the shell, swapped covers/drivers to a well regarded 150Ω 'red film' driver and tuned it to my preference.





My original post about it:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3861#post-16577683


----------



## foniak (Oct 19, 2021)

Can someone recommend an alternative to something like the Yuin PK3 or Nicehck EB2? something that sounds good and is lightweight.


----------



## sunsun89

assassin10000 said:


> I compared my '20 white vs the '21 mic and they do have slightly different tonality (sound signatures).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


wow, u can mod it using mmcx?! thats cool, because it use metal shell and very small housing, im very impressed!!
what is the meaning of red film driver? u change the original driver?


----------



## Philimon (Oct 19, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Nothing exists then. I tried, but found nothing except a wallet missing a few hundred dollars lol.


Thanks for trying to save me from too many losses. I'm not going to order the LBBS since I can't bother with eq at this time. Maybe when I receive my Nicehck order I'll have renewed vigor.

Added a couple Vido buds to my order. This person believes they compare favorably. So cheap, worth trying.


----------



## assassin10000

sunsun89 said:


> wow, u can mod it using mmcx?! thats cool, because it use metal shell and very small housing, im very impressed!!
> what is the meaning of red film driver? u change the original driver?


Yep. It's a bit more difficult than other MMCX mods, but I wanted this shell with an MMCX connector. Since K's didn't do it, I had to.  

Correct. I changed the driver as well. The only thing original on that pair is the shell/housing.


----------



## Ronion

Philimon said:


> Thanks for trying to save me from too many losses. I'm not going to order the LBBS since I can't bother with eq at this time. Maybe when I receive my Nicehck order I'll have renewed vigor.
> 
> Added a couple Vido buds to my order. This person believes they compare favorably. So cheap, worth trying.


That LBBs sounds great without EQ.  I’ve really never felt the need to EQ it.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Oct 20, 2021)

Philimon said:


> PEQ means parametric equalizer or is PEQ the name of an earbud? Can't I PEQ many different earbuds to sound similar?  Are the K's LBBS that much more resolving? ... details, transients, impact, lacking offensive ringing, etc etc





RikudouGoku said:


> Yes, parametric eq.
> 
> *You can't just eq anything into the x6...*
> 
> The LBBS is possible because of how good It already is and how well it responds to eq.


No. Unfortunately, most earbuds do not respond very well to EQ unless very minor adjustments. Sometimes it is due to an inherently strong house tuning and other times due to restrictive limitations of the particular driver and the dampening being used. Instead of using EQ heavily, to change the overall character signature of an earbud, you should EQ lightly to ever so slightly tame and/or emphasize certain aspects of an earbud's signature. Plus, it must be heavily stressed, *@RikudouGoku* *really, really knows what he is doing* and as he has clearly stated on many posts in this here thread he has only been successful in EQ'ing the Ks LBBs to sound like a god-tier level X6... deserving a huge bravo for the accomplishment!


----------



## Scuba Devils

Has anyone tried the Cayin N6ii with R01 board with buds? I'm buying one and from impressions I've read, I think it will drive them well. The n3pro with the tube amp sounds very interesting too...


----------



## ian91

Scuba Devils said:


> Has anyone tried the Cayin N6ii with R01 board with buds? I'm buying one and from impressions I've read, I think it will drive them well. The n3pro with the tube amp sounds very interesting too...



IIRC, @Charlyro222 has the N3Pro, maybe he can comment on that one?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Ronion said:


> That LBBs sounds great without EQ.  I’ve really never felt the need to EQ it.


Definitely. EQ is only needed if you want the X6 sound.


----------



## Charlyro222

Yes, definetly N3Pro is an affordable Tube Dap that can "sweet" everything you put it on. 
It depends more on the kind of music you listen to. 
I like smooth jazz with male and female vocals and Blur earbuds are great on that, but at the cost of some resolution. 
The way to go for me are R2R Dacs/Amps.


----------



## irv003 (Oct 20, 2021)

Scuba Devils said:


> Has anyone tried the Cayin N6ii with R01 board with buds? I'm buying one and from impressions I've read, I think it will drive them well. The n3pro with the tube amp sounds very interesting too...


n6ii r01 sounds good with dynamic drivers. you will like it.

w/ shozy BK


----------



## Philimon

assassin10000 said:


> That and sound signature. The older LB/LBB is a warm, smooth but still detailed sound signature.
> 
> The LBBs is a more V-shaped signature that doesn't go too far in its upper mid/lower treble boost.
> 
> ...



Can the current issue of LBBs be modded to sound like old "warm" LB/LBB? Is the old LB/LBB still available for order?


----------



## assassin10000

Philimon said:


> Can the current issue of LBBs be modded to sound like old "warm" LB/LBB? Is the old LB/LBB still available for order?


I'm doubtful that is possible, given the different drivers. But maybe.

You'd have to ask sellers if they have old stock and verify the serial number (1st 2 numbers are the build year iirc).


----------



## foniak

irv003 said:


> n6ii r01 sounds good with dynamic drivers. you will like it.
> 
> w/ shozy BK


How do they compare to Yuin PK3 or EB2? looks like what I want, nice old school design earbud that sounds great like PK3 and EB2 sounded, but they are too expensive, not sure if justified, considering how cheap and good PK3 and EB2 sounded, unfortunately both stopped working in one side. Im looking for an alternative.


----------



## irv003

foniak said:


> How do they compare to Yuin PK3 or EB2? looks like what I want, nice old school design earbud that sounds great like PK3 and EB2 sounded, but they are too expensive, not sure if justified, considering how cheap and good PK3 and EB2 sounded, unfortunately both stopped working in one side. Im looking for an alternative.


i never tried those but these shozy BKs are balance/neutral sounding which leans on the warm side. i think its one of the best PK shell buds out there or i have tried. I got this unit last 2017 and still keeping it. it has good bass for a PK shell buds.


----------



## 1clearhead

Philimon said:


> Thanks. I was able to figure out how to change the website to english. But checking out wouldnt complete using my iPhone. Website kept getting stuck loading… Im going to try ordering using my macbook. But before I do is there any differences between Yincrow X6 versions? If I recall correctly some sellers note “latest version” or “2018 version”. Nevermind, Ill just order the one you directly linked for me. Thanks again!


Sorry I couldn't help you earlier. Since I work and live in China, chances are I was sleeping in this side of the world. But, I can say that all the suggestions given to you by fellow head-fiers should work fine for you. Though, according to what you were looking for in your taste of sound signature, either the Yincrow X6 or Yincrow RW-9 should do just fine.
Have fun listening, cheers! 

-Clear


----------



## tgx78

Blur MX64 STE and FD7 for tonight’s listening session.


----------



## Sam L (Oct 21, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> No. Unfortunately, most earbuds do not respond very well to EQ unless very minor adjustments. Sometimes it is due to an inherently strong house tuning and other times due to restrictive limitations of the particular driver and the dampening being used. Instead of using EQ heavily, to change the overall character signature of an earbud, you should EQ lightly to ever so slightly tame and/or emphasize certain aspects of an earbud's signature. Plus, it must be heavily stressed, *@RikudouGoku* *really, really knows what he is doing* and as he has clearly stated on many posts in this here thread he has only been successful in EQ'ing the Ks LBBs to sound like a god-tier level X6... deserving a huge bravo for the accomplishment!


hearing great things about the lbb. I need to get a pair and see how they measure and respond to autoeq/wavelet analysis.

**edit** lol... reading my own signature, I realize I have a pair somewhere. hmmm I just need to find them....


----------



## Sam L

WoodyLuvr said:


> Ah, got you now... sorry the ole gray matter was failing me there. I haven't heard the *2021 - VE Monk Slim Metal PK Standard Edition* *(32Ω; aka "Monk SM")* yet as I am holding out for the 150Ω upgrade version soon-to-be-released. Trying to think of a brighter and/or more aggressive small shelled earbud and the Turandot (16Ω) is the only one that comes to mind at the moment. The Turandot is more forward and aggressive than it is bright but most definitely further over to the right leaning towards bright more than the *2020 - K's Temperament 小黑铃 Bell-LBBs (30Ω)*.
> 
> Another possible option would be the *2020 - Rose Technics Maria II (14Ω)* in the smaller 14.8mm size. This is a bright signature earbud in comparison to all. Has a nice sparkle to it but unfortunately it is very fatiguing for me to use for nay length of time (I am hyper sensitive to sibilant and bright signature). The Maria II is well regarded... so much so, that I had to put it on my *god-tier list*.


totally agree on the maria II. I didn't think earbuds could be fatiguing until I got the maria II's. all that upper energy doesn't bother me too much though, sadly I've not listened to my earbuds for months.      after finally recovering from ear infections, I'm left with ongoing eczema issues. gross, I know.  Headphones have been my only recourse over these past months.


----------



## waynes world

Sam L said:


> totally agree on the maria II. I didn't think earbuds could be fatiguing until I got the maria II's. all that upper energy doesn't bother me too much though, sadly I've not listened to my earbuds for months.      after finally recovering from ear infections, I'm left with ongoing eczema issues. gross, I know.  Headphones have been my only recourse over these past months.



Damn, that's been a battle! Sorry to hear it. Glad you're able to listen to headphones though. I wonder if the eczema has anything to do with various foams. I know that certain foams really get my ears irritated. 

Anyway, hope you're back to listening to earbuds one of these days. Missing the wavelets!


----------



## assassin10000

Sam L said:


> hearing great things about the lbb. I need to get a pair and see how they measure and respond to autoeq/wavelet analysis.
> 
> **edit** lol... reading my own signature, I realize I have a pair somewhere. hmmm I just need to find them....


Check the box if you still have it. If the serial number starts with K21 you're good to go. If K20, K19 or older it's a different driver/tuning.


----------



## Kamen555

Hi guys, just some random recommends other than d venerable X6:

If u guys like rock, grunge or punk rock. Try d Faaeal Datura Pro. Been rocking it for a year and it is still sweet for my ears. With a good source u can get a great sense of space for guitar solos. I used to EQ them but not anymore. So good. 

Also if u like Funk n R&B, Id recommend d Qian69. Great fit n very warm n just bassy enough for Prince tunes. Its so good I'm going to get d Qian39.


----------



## emusic13 (Oct 22, 2021)

Shozy BK sounds sweet


----------



## Scuba Devils

emusic13 said:


> Shoxy BK sounds sweet



I definitely need to grab a set. Probably best at this stage waiting for 11th November for any discount though!


----------



## gazzington

My yincrow x6 arrived today.  These sound really good.  Complete bargain for the price


----------



## foniak (Oct 22, 2021)

emusic13 said:


> Shozy BK sounds sweet


Any cheaper alternatives that are decent? Why did Nicehck stop manufacturing the EB2? that's just what I needed.
I mean if the bk is worth it I would invest the 165 bucks but with earbuds they always end up failing in one side after like 1-2 years.


----------



## irv003

foniak said:


> Any cheaper alternatives that are decent? Why did Nicehck stop manufacturing the EB2? that's just what I needed.
> I mean if the bk is worth it I would invest the 165 bucks but with earbuds they always end up failing in one side after like 1-2 years.


my BK is more than 4-years old now.


----------



## Chessnaudio

My Moondrop Liebesleid finally arrived. Just wow! The clarity. Thanks @Mimouille for the easy transaction. Pix to.follow at some point


----------



## emusic13

foniak said:


> Any cheaper alternatives that are decent? Why did Nicehck stop manufacturing the EB2? that's just what I needed.
> I mean if the bk is worth it I would invest the 165 bucks but with earbuds they always end up failing in one side after like 1-2 years.


I don't know any cheaper ones that are similar unfortunately. 

I think earbuds can last a long time, it just depends on how theyre stored and handled. I've had my PK1 for 10 years and it still works


----------



## waynes world

emusic13 said:


> I think earbuds can last a long time, it just depends on how theyre stored and handled. I've had my PK1 for 10 years and it still works



I store my "sleeping buds" in my ears every night, all night. Unfortunately this does not translate to them lasting a long time lol. I'm now trying not do destroy my B40 sleeping buds too quickly!


----------



## emusic13

waynes world said:


> I store my "sleeping buds" in my ears every night, all night. Unfortunately this does not translate to them lasting a long time lol. I'm now trying not do destroy my B40 sleeping buds too quickly!


I wonder if wrapping the stems and jack with heavy duty tape would help when first receiving the buds. Wouldn't look too nice but it might help them last longer lol


----------



## waynes world

emusic13 said:


> I wonder if wrapping the stems and jack with heavy duty tape would help when first receiving the buds. Wouldn't look too nice but it might help them last longer lol



That's a good idea to consider. Thanks!


----------



## irv003

what else is cheaper than vido, around $2~


----------



## foniak

emusic13 said:


> I don't know any cheaper ones that are similar unfortunately.
> 
> I think earbuds can last a long time, it just depends on how theyre stored and handled. I've had my PK1 for 10 years and it still works


What abotu the ve monk plus? It's only 5$

What does extra 160$ give you compared to that one?


----------



## emusic13

foniak said:


> What abotu the ve monk plus? It's only 5$
> 
> What does extra 160$ give you compared to that one?


Its a different sound but you may like it. More bassy

I just go by sound, not price.


----------



## foniak

irv003 said:


> my BK is more than 4-years old now.



What about this guy? he saiys the sound is "veiled" and lacks detail


Im just not sure if $165 is justified compared to many other alternatives for cheap and that reviews say sound great.

Any other alternaties you would recommend with no microphone?


----------



## foniak

emusic13 said:


> Its a different sound but you may like it. More bassy
> 
> I just go by sound, not price.


Can you recommend more? I willing to spend 100€ if worth it

Maybe im unlucky but the Yuin pk3 and Nicehck eb2 both had the sound going on/off with the cable wiggle after a year

I love the sound on these 2 for reference (old yuin pk3's not the knockoffs)


----------



## irv003

foniak said:


> What about this guy? he saiys the sound is "veiled" and lacks detail
> 
> 
> Im just not sure if $165 is justified compared to many other alternatives for cheap and that reviews say sound great.
> ...



why not EB2 again since you like it


----------



## foniak

irv003 said:


> why not EB2 again since you like it


Where to buy it? I was just considering if there are better alternatives.


----------



## irv003

foniak said:


> Where to buy it? I was just considering if there are better alternatives.


i never tried those though


----------



## foniak

irv003 said:


> i never tried those though


eb2 is out of production as far as I know


----------



## emusic13 (Oct 22, 2021)

foniak said:


> What about this guy? he saiys the sound is "veiled" and lacks detail
> 
> 
> Im just not sure if $165 is justified compared to many other alternatives for cheap and that reviews say sound great.
> ...



Well, everyones ear is different. I personally don't find them veiled at all. His impression could be based on volume level, hearing loss, or maybe going from a bright source. That guy is also banned  here if that makes any difference on his impression credibility

I've never heard the EB2 so I can't give recommendations but if you want the pk style, maybe just try Monk SM. Its relatively cheap and all metal so it should be durable enough for you. Or maybe consider B40 (never heard it but it might be an updated EB2)


----------



## foniak (Oct 22, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Nothing exists then. I tried, but found nothing except a wallet missing a few hundred dollars lol.



So no alternaties for LBBS for you? I just don't like the weird design, I like the old school pk shells best. It looks like they would fall from my ear.


----------



## Ronion

gazzington said:


> My yincrow x6 arrived today.  These sound really good.  Complete bargain for the price


The rabbit chase begins!


----------



## foniak

emusic13 said:


> Well, everyones ear is different. I personally don't find them veiled at all. His impression could be based on volume level, hearing loss, or maybe going from a bright source. That guy is also banned  here if that makes any difference on his impression credibility
> 
> I've never heard the EB2 so I can't give recommendations but if you want the pk style, maybe just try Monk SM. Its relatively cheap and all metal so it should be durable enough for you. Or maybe consider B40 (never heard it but it might be an updated EB2)


Would like a comparation with B40 vs EB2. Anyone? maybe also vs Yincrow x6 or mw-9 or Fengru emx500 or anything else along the lines.


----------



## foniak

Can someone explain what the difference is betwen these 3 Fengru emx500 models?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/327...58-0&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000023127730938"}

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...36430f58-1&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"65219176913"}

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...36430f58-2&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"65462514261"}


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 30, 2022)

Indeed, everyone has certain signature preferences and leanings and therefore are biased towards them.

The *SHOZY 大黑 Big Black (BK) Stardust 16Ω (2016) *may be considered a bit dated it still offers an excellent listening experience for those that enjoy warm-smooth sounding earphones. Super ear friendly and fatigue-free this earbud can literally be worn by most people all day long without issue. Robust and well-made, I honestly have not remembered hearing of any driver or cable failure being reported.



Spoiler: Shozy BK Stardust Sound Chart



As you can see by it's primary sound signature plot (the bold red dot on the sound signature chart just below) the BK shares many similarities with the Sennheiser HD600 which is often accused of being veiled, boring, and/or lacking midrange detail as well (though with the HD600 a weak source is many times the culprit rather than the actual tuning). The Shozy BK has a number of stronger and weaker secondary characteristics that effects the overall signature we hear. But it must be strongly reminded that it is possible for earphones to exhibit prominent tertiary characteristics as well... ones that are quite opposing to the primary and secondary characteristics in fact. So although the BK generally has strong "warm" and "dark" oriented leanings I too found that it offered sharp details and a balanced sound as well.

Their primary sound signature is nearly neutral, mid-centric, and ever so slightly on the warm-side. Some find them balanced sounding ("U-Shaped") while others, like myself, find them to be slightly mid-forward sounding almost like an upside down "Inverted U-Shape" signature (not quite as strong as a classic "W-Shape" though). Overall they have a "classical golden age earbud" tuning that is not too far off from being reference with most music genres and are quite natural and airy sounding while still being warm and smooth.

With that said, I can easily see why some people feel the Shozy BK is "veiled" as it is indeed far from being a bright, aggressive, and/or analytically signature'd earphone. Though that doesn't necessarily mean it or "warm/dark" sounding earphones can not provide good detail (as mentioned before) it may just come down to that it is simply presented in a manner that some people find boring, interpret as being "veiled" or "lacking brightness", and thus do not like it. Just like the Sennheiser HD600 we could debate it until we are all blue in the face if it is actually due to a "veiled" tendency exhibited by the Sennheiser house sound (tuning) or simply is just due to an absence of "brightness"... the fact remains that some people simply do not like the signature and that is perfectly fine.





_Primary_ = *Mid-Centric - Flat / Neutral* (warm leaning)
_Secondary (Strong) _= *Warm*
_Secondary (Strong) _= *Detailed*
_Secondary (Weak)_ = *Bass *(not basshead level but very present and detailed)
_Secondary (Weak)_ = *Airy* (not bright nor sibilant in any way)
_Tertiary (Complementing)_ = *Smooth*
_Tertiary (Complementing) = _*Inverted U-Shaped* (some may hear a "balanced" tuning instead)
_Tertiary (Opposing) _= *U-Shaped *(while others may hear a slightly mid-forward tuning)

*SPECIAL NOTE ABOUT THE SOUND SIGNATURE CHART*
It is crucial that you do not interpret this chart two-dimensionally but rather three-dimensionally using all axes offered. Optimally, this would be best presented as a sphere but in turn that would make it difficult to clearly see and read all the labels and sections. Thus, we are limited to two-dimensions for the sake of presentation and clarity. Please note that I tried my best to stick to the "classic" (more basic) sound signature & tuning characteristic definitions as used by recording professionals & audio engineers. More *here*.



The* Shozy BK Stardust* have recently been re-released (reissued) in their original form using the original brown cable and not dark grey cable of the later version. The older original version is ever so slightly warmer sounding and some people found them to be less dry (lifeless) than the newer version (which I never noticed but others do have better ears than mine).

https://penonaudio.com/shozy-bk-black.html


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Curious to see what earbuds everyone currently has in their stables now and the roles... here is mine:


----------



## emusic13

irv003 said:


> what else is cheaper than vido, around $2~


I think it'd be hard to find something cheaper pricewise but I have heard cheaper sounding buds.


----------



## firesign

WoodyLuvr said:


> Curious to see what earbuds everyone currently has in their stables now and the roles... here is mine:
> 
> ​


What does critical signature mean?


----------



## RikudouGoku

firesign said:


> What does critical signature mean?


Probably brighter and a more detail focused tonality. (as you can see by the shorter session note)


----------



## emusic13

RikudouGoku said:


> Probably brighter and a more detail focused tonality. (as you can see by the shorter session note)


Does that mean fatiguing?


----------



## RikudouGoku

emusic13 said:


> Does that mean fatiguing?


More fatiguing than a warmer tonality. (and why his listening session is shorter.)


----------



## digititus

firesign said:


> What does critical signature mean?


I would call this "studio reference" for audio engineers who require analytical detail levels to hear "everything" in the mix. Think Yamaha NS10 Studio monitors.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Oct 23, 2021)

firesign said:


> What does critical signature mean?


A mix of all below... LOL! 


RikudouGoku said:


> Probably brighter and a more detail focused tonality. (as you can see by the shorter session note)


Yes the mid-forward and detailed nature of the STE wears on me quickly. It comes across a tad aggressive and bright for me. For others though the forward nature of the STE is pleasing.


emusic13 said:


> Does that mean fatiguing?





RikudouGoku said:


> More fatiguing than a warmer tonality. (and why his listening session is shorter.)


Yes, exactly thus why I only can use it for short sessions as @RikudouGoku said.


digititus said:


> I would call this "studio reference" for audio engineers who require analytical detail levels to hear "everything" in the mix. Think Yamaha NS10 Studio monitors.


Yes. It has an analytical capability to pick out nuances of recordings that one would miss with warmer signatures. It also can be very unforgiving of poor recordings and mastering. I am hoping that my new *Blur 266R MX400 Reference LE* will replace it in fact as I am finding this 400Ω driver is very analytical as well without being overly clinical, forward, nor sibilant. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Philimon

WoodyLuvr said:


> Curious to see what earbuds everyone currently has in their stables now and the roles... here is mine:
> 
> ​


What are the definitions of these different “signatures”?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Oct 23, 2021)

Philimon said:


> What are the definitions of these different “signatures”?


This is a highly personal list based on my preferences and strong dislike for sibilant/bright/aggressive signatures... so most definitely not the "classic" definitions as used by recording professionals & audio engineers. The signatures represent how I use each earbud. I hope that makes sense.

*Critical*... please see my reply post above.

*Fun* in this case is exciting lively signature with plenty of BASS!!!

*Smooth* *Timbre* in this case is satisfying my timbrehead leanings and preferences while not being overly forward, aggressive, or clinically detailed.

*Reference* in this case means that it is close to neutral/flat and offers a natural authentic reproduction of the music.

*Warm* in this case is smooth and gooey in a relaxing unfatiguing laid-back sort of way (can listen all day long).


----------



## 1clearhead

WoodyLuvr said:


> Curious to see what earbuds everyone currently has in their stables now and the roles... here is mine:
> 
> ​


Originality! Totally have my respect...Nice job! 

-Clear


----------



## Philimon

WoodyLuvr said:


> This is a highly personal list based on my preferences and strong dislike for sibilant/bright/aggressive signatures... so most definitely not the "classic" definitions as used by recording professionals & audio engineers. The signatures represent how I use each earbud. I hope that makes sense.
> 
> *Critical*... please see my reply post above.
> 
> ...



Critical description sounds like Bright.

Fun description sounds like whatever + extra bass

Smooth Timbre and Reference difference needs more explanation for me. Appear to mean the same. I am not pro so please have mercy.

Warm seems obvious to me. I like warm.


----------



## feverfive

Just curious if anyone would care to chime in and disclose your favorite buds (and thus sound signature) you like most for video consumption (movies, tv shows).


----------



## waynes world

Philimon said:


> Warm seems obvious to me. I like warm* fun!*



Based on your recent Yincrow purchases... fixed that for ya!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

feverfive said:


> Just curious if anyone would care to chime in and disclose your favorite buds (and thus sound signature) you like most for video consumption (movies, tv shows).


I watched the new Dune flick with my *Blur 266R MX400 Reference LE* they were great!


----------



## irv003

emusic13 said:


> I think it'd be hard to find something cheaper pricewise but I have heard cheaper sounding buds.


its nice to try some cheaper buds. i still listen to monk plus and vido, theyre still awesome for the price.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Oct 24, 2021)

Philimon said:


> Critical description sounds like Bright.
> 
> Fun description sounds like whatever + extra bass
> 
> ...



For Critical it is not so much it being "Bright" in the truest sense but rather because of the hyper-detailing and mid-forwardness it comes comes across as being bright & sibilant-like, sounding too aggressive, to my ears (brain) which wears me out with certain recordings and genres. Smooth Timbre would primarily fall into the area between "Veiled" and "Neutral-Flat" plus slightly down some towards "Mid-Forward" while Reference in this regards would be the area between "Smooth" & "Sharp" and "Balanced" & "Mid-Centric" but in this specific case more so falling just underneath the area "Neutral-Flat" as the Blur House Sound is heavily mid-centric.

But you now probably can understand and see what I mean that my listed signature designations in the table are very personal in nature. It is the very reason why I stayed away from using on my sound signature chart such highly ambiguous audiophile terms such as "sound/head-stage", "reference", "timbre", "imaging", "fun", "vocals", etc. as they are all highly subjective (heavily argued and disagreed upon) and vary widely between music genres, listening tastes, recording styles & set-ups, transducer types, volume levels, etc.


----------



## furyossa (Oct 23, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> I watched the new Dune flick with my *Blur 266R MX400 Reference LE* they were great!


I started to watch DUNE and I fell asleep twice. The beginning of the movie is very slow


----------



## baskingshark (Oct 23, 2021)

Philimon said:


> Critical description sounds like Bright.
> 
> Fun description sounds like whatever + extra bass
> 
> ...



I would define *timbre AKA timbral accuracy* as "what lets us tell apart a musical instrument or voice, even when they are hitting the same note at the same fundamental pitch and loudness". In other words, does a violin sound like a real life violin on this earbud? Does Diana Krall sound like she sounds in a live singing performance on this earbud?

Timbre though, depends on the music genres you listen to (vocals/acoustic genres versus synthetic instruments), your preferences etc. Some folks aren't particular about timbre, or their music genres don't feature much vocals or acoustic instruments, so no issue even if the timbral accuracy is off. Some folks may perhaps have not heard a live violin up front, and hence are not particular about how it sounds on a earbud/IEM.

In general, most earbuds tend to have good to excellent timbre, as most of them contain dynamic drivers, which tend to have more authentic timbre than balanced armature (BA) drivers used in some IEMs.




The word* "reference"* is a bit harder to explain. Cause different folks use different headgear as their "reference" point. Say someone has been using a earbud/IEM with more bass than neutral, for a long time. That to them is their reference point, and they might find newer earbuds/IEMs with a neutral bass as bass anemic. Some may have heard hundreds of earbuds/IEMs like our esteemed @WoodyLuvr , some might only own one pair of earbuds/IEMs, so they have different comparison points.

Even the term "neutral" is also debatable, some consider harman neutral to be neutral, some consider "flat" to be neutral, some consider diffuse field to be neutral.

The gear the audio engineers used in a recording is also different from what we are using to listen to, on the same track. So what the recording engineers wanted to convey in their recordings, might sound different to us, even if say we are using a "neutral" or "reference" gear at home to listen.



Haha at the end of the day, these are small nitpicky points. Most important is you enjoy the music. Delving into the nitty gritty things may distract us from the music, and I'm guilty of it myself too, sometimes we focus more on the gear than the music!!! =)


----------



## Kamen555

baskingshark said:


> I would define *timbre AKA timbral accuracy* as "what lets us tell apart a musical instrument or voice, even when they are hitting the same note at the same fundamental pitch and loudness". In other words, does a violin sound like a real life violin on this earbud? Does Diana Krall sound like she sounds in a live singing performance on this earbud?
> 
> Timbre though, depends on the music genres you listen to (vocals/acoustic genres versus synthetic instruments), your preferences etc. Some folks aren't particular about timbre, or their music genres don't feature much vocals or acoustic instruments, so no issue even if the timbral accuracy is off. Some folks may perhaps have not heard a live violin up front, and hence are not particular about how it sounds on a earbud/IEM.
> 
> ...


I agree. If u don't listen to music live, then it's difficult to notice any difference. A piano/keyboard/moog is also a good instrument to listen to to mess u up on timbre...


----------



## foniak

I will never buy an earbud because I don't know what to buy. I would just buy the EB2 again but they stopped manufacturing it.


----------



## waynes world

foniak said:


> I will never buy an earbud because I don't know what to buy. I would just buy the EB2 again but they stopped manufacturing it.



Get a yincrow while you think about it


----------



## foniak

waynes world said:


> Get a yincrow while you think about it


which model is best? and what about fengru emx500?


----------



## waynes world

foniak said:


> which model is best? and what about fengru emx500?



Well, the RW-2000 is probably the best - it's $140US right now (I'd love to get a pair some day).

But the X6 ($10) or the RW-9 ($18) are what I was really meaning for you. Both are great and should tide you over nicely until you figure out what you want to get  

The X6 is a step above the fengru emx500 (which is good).


----------



## foniak

waynes world said:


> Well, the RW-2000 is probably the best - it's $140US right now (I'd love to get a pair some day).
> 
> But the X6 ($10) or the RW-9 ($18) are what I was really meaning for you. Both are great and should tide you over nicely until you figure out what you want to get
> 
> The X6 is a step above the fengru emx500 (which is good).


What is there on this middle 50-99$ range thats an improvement over these?


----------



## chinmie

WoodyLuvr said:


> Curious to see what earbuds everyone currently has in their stables now and the roles... here is mine:
> 
> ​



for my collection, if i was to group them in your categories, it would be something like this:

critical - Liebesleid, H185
fun - MK1, MK2, Svara L
smooth timbre - MK3, Sharp MD, MS16 
reference - PK16, PS100-500
warm - MK300

i still usually able to listen to the critical category in longer sessions, but in a lower volume level than the rest


----------



## Chessnaudio

Don't have so many buds. But:
Critical- Liebesleid
Fun- Earbuds Anonymous 
Balanced - K's LBBS
I found the LBBS early. Hard to find a better bud. Liebesleid has better treble without being harsh. But LBBS is overall king. It takes any genre thrown at it


----------



## WoodyLuvr

chinmie said:


> for my collection, if i was to group them in your categories, it would be something like this:
> 
> critical - Liebesleid, H185
> fun - MK1, MK2, Svara L
> ...


Nice! How you liking your Puresounds? I miss mine .


Chessnaudio said:


> Don't have so many buds. But:
> Critical- Liebesleid
> Fun- Earbuds Anonymous
> Balanced - K's LBBS
> I found the LBBS early. Hard to find a better bud. Liebesleid has better treble without being harsh. But LBBS is overall king. It takes any genre thrown at it


Excellent. Ks LBBs is indeed a very nice earbud and you are lucky to have found it early in the game. Enjoy!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Oct 24, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> I would define *timbre AKA timbral accuracy* as "what lets us tell apart a musical instrument or voice, even when they are hitting the same note at the same fundamental pitch and loudness". In other words, does a violin sound like a real life violin on this earbud? Does Diana Krall sound like she sounds in a live singing performance on this earbud?
> 
> Timbre though, depends on the music genres you listen to (vocals/acoustic genres versus synthetic instruments), your preferences etc. Some folks aren't particular about timbre, or their music genres don't feature much vocals or acoustic instruments, so no issue even if the timbral accuracy is off. Some folks may perhaps have not heard a live violin up front, and hence are not particular about how it sounds on a earbud/IEM.
> 
> ...


Very well said. Concur on all points. I was 50/50 (sitting on the fence) on leaving or removing the "Neutral" label on the chart but you have pushed me over to removing it as it indeed one of those terms that most recording professionals & audio engineers tend to avoid using as it has many meanings and uses. I had left it in hopes of conveying that the center of the chart was an area of neutrality and dryness.


----------



## emusic13

The only way to judge timbre is by hearing the real thing


----------



## chinmie

WoodyLuvr said:


> Nice! How you liking your Puresounds? I miss mine .
> 
> Excellent. Ks LBBs is indeed a very nice earbud and you are lucky to have found it early in the game. Enjoy!



still loving it, though admittedly i haven't giving it more playtime these days.... the result of having too many earphones


----------



## SiggyFraud

foniak said:


> So no alternaties for LBBS for you? I just don't like the weird design, I like the old school pk shells best. It looks like they would fall from my ear.


I don't find the design weird at all. In fact, they're super-comfortable and I can wear them for hours without issues. The sound is also brilliant, which makes the LBBs an overall winner in my book.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

foniak said:


> So no alternaties for LBBS for you? I just don't like the weird design, I like the old school pk shells best. It looks like they would fall from my ear.


Have you physically tried them yet? If so which model? Those with larger ear canals do sometimes have fitting issues with them but generally the small bell shape fits quite easily and snuggly in the ear... literally disappearing as @SiggyFraud as intimated.


SiggyFraud said:


> I don't find the design weird at all. In fact, they're super-comfortable and I can wear them for hours without issues. The sound is also brilliant, which makes the LBBs an overall winner in my book.


Concur; I as well.


----------



## irv003 (Oct 24, 2021)

foniak said:


> which model is best? and what about fengru emx500?


i still have my 2017 emx500, the one with brown braided cable. sound is great, Ushaped well-done. its unique sounding that newer fengru emx500 (newer release) doesnt sound the same.


----------



## assassin10000

WoodyLuvr said:


> Curious to see what earbuds everyone currently has in their stables now and the roles... here is mine:
> 
> ​


Hmmmm. I've definitely shrunk my stable.


*Signature*​*Session*​*Brand*​*Model/Driver*​*Ω*​Diffuse Field​Long​DIY​2020 K's shell w/14.8mm 'Red Film'​150Ω​Diffuse Field​Long​DIY​Modified PK w/14.8mm 'Red Film'​150Ω​Fun​Short​Smabat​ST-10 (original, version 1)​45Ω​Diffuse Field​Long​DIY​Modified PK, 14.8mm Ti​32Ω​Mid-centric​Long​DIY​Modified PK, 14.8mm  N55​64Ω​

My 2 or 3 warmer buds are gone. Those being the original Yuin PK2, Original K's LB and the disassembled 14.8mm 40Ω Ti.


----------



## Billyak

I have just ordered

JCALLY EP05
AK YINCROW RW-9
YINCROW X6

Now just waiting to see what turns up and when.


----------



## foniak (Oct 24, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Have you physically tried them yet? If so which model? Those with larger ear canals do sometimes have fitting issues with them but generally the small bell shape fits quite easily and snuggly in the ear... literally disappearing as @SiggyFraud as intimated.
> 
> Concur; I as well.


I havent tried it but I like the classic design better. I think my ear canal is normal not sure. May buy them and test them if they are better than the x6.
Can you post the exact link to buy? because ive seen there are confusing alternatives with similar name.

They sound good with no foams? I have decided I will not sure foams to improve higiene. The foams just catch too much dust and stuff and I don't want to constantly buy new ones.


----------



## Scuba Devils

Painful waiting for my Penon BS1 Official... shipped on the 9th of Oct and last status on the tracking is showing it left China on the 10th, nothing since! I'm guessing it'll be like AE orders where they take about a month to reach Ireland...


----------



## foniak

Can someone that owned the EB2 recommend me a replacement? because at least I would have a reference point to what to expect.


----------



## KutuzovGambit

Scuba Devils said:


> Painful waiting for my Penon BS1 Official... shipped on the 9th of Oct and last status on the tracking is showing it left China on the 10th, nothing since! I'm guessing it'll be like AE orders where they take about a month to reach Ireland...


I’m still waiting for my LBBS and other buds from 8-8. Reached the US on 9-9 and Pitney Bowes has been sending it back and forth between random places ever since…


----------



## thamasha69

Anyone else enjoying Newbsound buds? Been listening to the Newbsound 32pro for a few weeks now and it's just wonderful. Big bass and very smooth vocals. But I must say, even with the analogue-ish Opus 11, things never become "gooey" or bloated. Details are absolutely present and separation is wonderful. The tuning is almost spot on between fun and "audiophile" (however you interpret that). There's warmth and bass but also separation and detail --they continue to blow me away.


----------



## calcatreppola

foniak said:


> What abotu the ve monk plus? It's only 5$
> 
> What does extra 160$ give you compared to that one?


detail and separation, if you like it... I have monk lite, gorgeous for very relaxed listening... but when it comes to enjoy details I go for my ebx21, waiting for my first blur... with adequate DAC the difference is tangible.
BUT you must like it and appreciate... otherwise ve monk is ok... (my son has it)


----------



## emusic13

thamasha69 said:


> Anyone else enjoying Newbsound buds? Been listening to the Newbsound 32pro for a few weeks now and it's just wonderful. Big bass and very smooth vocals. But I must say, even with the analogue-ish Opus 11, things never become "gooey" or bloated. Details are absolutely present and separation is wonderful. The tuning is almost spot on between fun and "audiophile" (however you interpret that). There's warmth and bass but also separation and detail --they continue to blow me away.


Newbsound pro is probably the best earbud I've heard for vocals


----------



## Scuba Devils

Haven't heard of the Newbsound buds and google didn't reveal much - where can I learn more?!


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Scuba Devils said:


> Haven't heard of the Newbsound buds and google didn't reveal much - where can I learn more?!


Ask in pm https://instagram.com/newb_bisoy


----------



## SiggyFraud

foniak said:


> I havent tried it but I like the classic design better. I think my ear canal is normal not sure. May buy them and test them if they are better than the x6.
> Can you post the exact link to buy? because ive seen there are confusing alternatives with similar name.
> 
> They sound good with no foams? I have decided I will not sure foams to improve higiene. The foams just catch too much dust and stuff and I don't want to constantly buy new ones.


Here's the link.
3rd option is the one you want - _Little Black Bell S_, not _White Bell no mic_, nor _Black Bell with mic_.



When it comes to foams vs foamless, I use mine with HieGi donuts. If you're worried about dust and ear gunk, I'd still prefer dealing with dirty foams rather than clogged up mesh of the earbud, but YMMV.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Oct 25, 2021)

assassin10000 said:


> Hmmmm. I've definitely shrunk my stable.
> 
> 
> *Signature*​*Session*​*Brand*​*Model/Driver*​*Ω*​Diffuse Field​Long​DIY​2020 K's shell w/14.8mm 'Red Film'​150Ω​Diffuse Field​Long​DIY​Modified PK w/14.8mm 'Red Film'​150Ω​Fun​Short​Smabat​ST-10 (original, version 1)​45Ω​Diffuse Field​Long​DIY​Modified PK, 14.8mm Ti​32Ω​Mid-centric​Long​DIY​Modified PK, 14.8mm  N55​64Ω​
> ...


Curious. I understand how *direct sound field *and *diffuse sound field* are applied in regards to loudspeakers but how does a *diffuse field* occur with and in an ear/headphone? I thought that simply due to the close proximity of an ear/headphone driver to our ear/ear canal all we can experience is *direct field (undisturbed sound field) *and that we are unable to experience high volume reflected (diffused) sounds aka sounds reflected off objects that are louder than sounds heard directly from the driver. How is it then possible to hear a reflected sound equal to and/or greater than a direct sound from an earbud driver? Or is this some sort of DSP or equalization at play here that you are using to create a diffused field like effect similar to applying a crossfeed DSP?
Genuinely intrigued; please share your secret 🥺.


----------



## SolaVirtus (Oct 25, 2021)

thamasha69 said:


> Anyone else enjoying Newbsound buds? Been listening to the Newbsound 32pro for a few weeks now and it's just wonderful. Big bass and very smooth vocals. But I must say, even with the analogue-ish Opus 11, things never become "gooey" or bloated. Details are absolutely present and separation is wonderful. The tuning is almost spot on between fun and "audiophile" (however you interpret that). There's warmth and bass but also separation and detail --they continue to blow me away.


Definitely enjoy mine - I've got both an X and Lite sets. Fantastic punch and bass among buds. "Audiophile Fun" is a good short description.

Edited for typos.


----------



## thamasha69

Scuba Devils said:


> Haven't heard of the Newbsound buds and google didn't reveal much - where can I learn more?!


Like others mentioned, pm Bisoy Siosan on FB or Instagram- super cool guy. When I inquired we discussed for a few hours tuning and preferences before I pulled the trigger. Absolutely no regrets - they are great. I also have a Vido tuned by him and his voicing is spot on for my preferences.


----------



## gazzington

I’m having a listen with the zen lite with shanling m8 tonight. Really nice sound. I think I’m going to order the ve sun dice. Anybody here tried it?


----------



## Scuba Devils

gazzington said:


> I’m having a listen with the zen lite with shanling m8 tonight. Really nice sound. I think I’m going to order the ve sun dice. Anybody here tried it?



How quickly do they typically arrive to you? Takes soooo long for me via AE, about a month which puts me off... flawed though as if I had ordered when I decided not to, I'd have them by now!

With that in mind, probably time I order lbbs.


----------



## gazzington

Scuba Devils said:


> How quickly do they typically arrive to you? Takes soooo long for me via AE, about a month which puts me off... flawed though as if I had ordered when I decided not to, I'd have them by now!
> 
> With that in mind, probably time I order lbbs.


Hmm I haven’t ordered anything from ve for a while. A month does put me off when I can get fiio em5 in a day!  I’m considering one of those bell earbuds too. Right now I’m preferring earbuds to iems


----------



## Scuba Devils

gazzington said:


> Hmm I haven’t ordered anything from ve for a while. A month does put me off when I can get fiio em5 in a day!  I’m considering one of those bell earbuds too. Right now I’m preferring earbuds to iems



Me too on the buds, though the very high praise and my love for EM5 has me very tempted on FD7.


----------



## gazzington

Scuba Devils said:


> Me too on the buds, though the very high praise and my love for EM5 has me very tempted on FD7.


Hehe must admit I’m kind of enjoying not having iems wedged in my ear canals. Earbuds and headphones for me at the moment!


----------



## firesign

Scuba Devils said:


> Me too on the buds, though the very high praise and my love for EM5 has me very tempted on FD7.


Is the EM5 really that good?


----------



## Scuba Devils

firesign said:


> Is the EM5 really that good?



Like many earphones, I have read mixed reports but I absolutely love the EM5. It might be just that it has clicked perfectly with a lot of my music preferences. To be fair though, if you look up reviews, there are quite a few and majority are glowing - I spent an evening reading them before I pulled the trigger.


----------



## emusic13

gazzington said:


> Hmm I haven’t ordered anything from ve for a while. A month does put me off when I can get fiio em5 in a day!  I’m considering one of those bell earbuds too. Right now I’m preferring earbuds to iems


The bells are really nice. Also, I find 32 ohm earbuds to be the best match for tera.


----------



## assassin10000 (Oct 25, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Curious. I understand how *direct sound field *and *diffuse sound field* are applied in regards to loudspeakers but how does a *diffuse field* occur with and in an ear/headphone? I thought that simply due to the close proximity of an ear/headphone driver to our ear/ear canal all we can experience is *direct field (undisturbed sound field) *and that we are unable to experience high volume reflected (diffused) sounds aka sounds reflected off objects that are louder than sounds heard directly from the driver. How is it then possible to hear a reflected sound equal to and/or greater than a direct sound from an earbud driver? Or is this some sort of DSP or equalization at play here that you are using to create a diffused field like effect similar to applying a crossfeed DSP?
> Genuinely intrigued; please share your secret 🥺.



Not diffuse field speaker measurement lol.

Diffuse field "neutral target". Flat response except for pinna gain, I prefer about 8-10db but a 12-15db peak isn't uncomfortable either, as long as it drops right back off. Basically when earbuds measure on my rig similar to the way an Ety IEM graph looks.

This requires a bud/driver with good sub-bass extension.





Grey is modded PK shell.
Red is K's shell.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Oct 26, 2021)

assassin10000 said:


> Not diffuse field speaker measurement lol.
> 
> Diffuse field "neutral target". Flat response except for pinna gain, I prefer about 8-10db but a 12-15db peak isn't uncomfortable either, as long as it drops right back off. Basically when earbuds measure on my rig similar to the way an Ety IEM graph looks.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for the explanation comrade; l learnt something new today  📣... although, I really do wonder and ponder how I ever missed there being a "*diffuse field target*" LOL!

_A *diffuse field target* aims at a frequency response that's meant to emulate the way flat-measuring speakers would sound in a somewhat 'lively' room (as opposed to an anechoic chamber). Unlike the Harman target, this doesn't base the result on consumer preference-based research. A diffuse field target ends up being slightly brighter than compensations based on the Harman target, and doesn't have as much bass emphasis, but it's still warmer and more realistic than a *Free Field* target developed in a completely 'dead' room. Diffuse field has been a common target for many years, however more recently headphones have tended to aim for the extra bass emphasis of the consumer preference curve instead. --- *Headphones.Com - Measurements and Frequency Response* _​


----------



## Kamen555

gazzington said:


> Hehe must admit I’m kind of enjoying not having iems wedged in my ear canals. Earbuds and headphones for me at the moment!


Yea, I don't enjoy d plugged in ear feel too, but still using iems for commutes on d bus/train.

Earbuds vs open back headphones though, that's sometimes a tough call... 🤷🏽‍♂️


----------



## baskingshark

ClieOS has some posts on some upcoming SMABAT ST20 and M3 pro earbuds:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-discovery-thread.586909/page-4043#post-16628179


----------



## baskingshark

baskingshark said:


> ClieOS has some posts on some upcoming SMABAT ST20 and M3 pro earbuds:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-discovery-thread.586909/page-4043#post-16628179



Further information about these 2 earbuds from Smabat Lin (founder of Smabat) here on facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/posts/6475929675780622/



Spoiler: Smabat ST20 Photos




















Spoiler: Smabat M3 Pro Photos










Seems Smabat is using a labryinth acoustic design as per some of their previous earbuds.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Oct 26, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Further information about these 2 earbuds from Smabat Lin (founder of Smabat) here on facebook:
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/posts/6475929675780622/
> 
> 
> ...


Awesome! Thanks for sharing. Yes, they are slowly perfecting this maze-like driver of theirs and driving customers crazy with the ever-ending changes and variances. LOL! Looking forward to seeing what the specs are for these (impedance and sensitivity).


----------



## Rary

WoodyLuvr said:


> Curious to see what earbuds everyone currently has in their stables now and the roles... here is mine:
> 
> ​


I think i built quite a collection in the past year, what do you think?





It's mostly comprised of DIY builds but i think they are equally as good if not better than most branded models i tried.
You can find the whole list in my signature (still a work in progress).

Among my collection i think these 4 are the best in terms of: 
-Overall sound: ST10s 150ohm drivers (Rivet mod)
-Vocals/Critical listening: 400ohm Graphene drivers (Slight variation of @FranQL 's transparent mod)
-Most beautiful: K's 300 Samsara
-Value: Vido


----------



## Carrow

Customs stuff makes me want to tear my f*cking hair out at the best of times but like... My VE ZOE was sent back to Wild Lee because of incorrect customs info and basically the only way I can get them now is if courier shipping isn't prohibitively expensive from China. Taking a refund otherwise. Bored of this crap now.


----------



## waynes world

Nice collection!



Rary said:


> Among my collection i think these 4 are the best in terms of:
> -Overall sound: ST10s 150ohm drivers (Rivet mod)



I love them too! But what is this "Rivet mod" of which you speak?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

waynes world said:


> Nice collection!
> 
> 
> 
> I love them too! But what is this "Rivet mod" of which you speak?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15482272 from the man himself *@furyossa *


----------



## waynes world

WoodyLuvr said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15482272 from the man himself *@furyossa *



Thanks, but I'm not sure that mod is for the ST10S?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Rary said:


> I think i built quite a collection in the past year, what do you think?
> 
> 
> It's mostly comprised of DIY builds but i think they are equally as good if not better than most branded models i tried.
> ...


Thank you for sharing! I really enjoy espying others' collections. I don't think you have enough earbuds...  LOL! Great start though.

Funny to think that exactly one year ago I was sitting on nearly three hundred (300) earbuds; sixty (60) plus IEMS; twenty (20) plus headphones; ten (10) pair of speakers; thirty-six (36) amps and dacs; twenty plus (20+) separate two-channel components; and hundreds and I mean literally hundreds of cables, adapters, & interconnects.

Now I am sitting on five (5) earbuds; one (1) pair of headphones; one (1) headphone amp; two (2) DACs; and maybe only twenty-five or so (25) cables & adapters. Still hunting around (testing & demoing) for the perfect DAC for my headAMP.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

waynes world said:


> Thanks, but I'm not sure that mod is for the ST10S?


Apologies, I thought you were asking what a "rivet mod" was. Cheers.


----------



## waynes world

WoodyLuvr said:


> Thank you for sharing! I really enjoy espying others' collections. I don't think you have enough earbuds...  LOL! Great start though.
> 
> Funny to think that exactly one year ago I was sitting on nearly three hundred (300) earbuds; sixty (60) plus IEMS; twenty (20) plus headphones; ten (10) pair of speakers; thirty-six (36) amps and dacs; twenty plus (20+) separate two-channel components; and hundreds and I mean literally hundreds of cables, adapters, & interconnects.
> 
> Now I am sitting on five (5) earbuds; one (1) pair of headphones; one (1) headphone amp; two (2) DACs; and maybe only twenty-five or so (25) cables & adapters. Still hunting around (testing & demoing) for the perfect DAC for my headAMP.



Wow. If you can do that, then I can thin my relatively measly herd lol. Thanks for the inspiration!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

waynes world said:


> Wow. If you can do that, then I can thin my relatively measly herd lol. Thanks for the inspiration!


It wasn't easy and it took me months and months to gift, trade, and sell it all away. But I am happy that it is done and I finally minimalized as the rest of my life is definitely minimalist.


----------



## Scuba Devils (Nov 1, 2021)

I gave in to temptation... now for the long wait


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Nov 26, 2022)

By popular demand and request (aka incessant badgering... just joking ! I was more than happy to do it, I simply just kept forgetting to ask the creator for all the relevant data; sorry all 🙏) I have duly updated the *Flathead Timeline* with *Bisoy Buds/Newbsound Earbuds* accordingly. There is a growing number of us earbud fanatics and flathead fiends that truly believe that custom builders such as *@irv003 *are the future of earbuds, not low & mid-fi corporations, who will truly drive and steer earbuds to new and greater heights. We need to support them as best as we can to ensure that are beloved transducer medium continues to flourish. The following is the entire collection that has been added to the timeline:


*BISOY BUDS BLACK (BBB) / NEWBSOUND*
2019 - BBB v1 (32Ω; Bisoy Buds Black; currently Newbsound)​2019 - BBB v2 (32Ω; Bisoy Buds Black; currently Newbsound)​2019 - BBB v2.5 (32Ω; Bisoy Buds Black; currently Newbsound)​2020 - Newbsound v2.5 (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - NewbsoundMod Silver Docomo (16Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - Newbsound Lite (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - Newbsound X (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - Newbsound 140 (140Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - Newbsound 32LCP (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - Newbsound 130LCP (130Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - Newbsound Bio (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - NewbsoundMod Vido (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - Newbsound PK (16Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​*2021 - Newbsound 32pro (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)*​*2022 - Newbsound 32X (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)*​*2022 - Newbsound Legend (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)*​​​The *Newbsound 32pro*, *32X*, and *Legend *are the current available models and what would a post on the _Earbuds Round-Up_ thread be without a stellar pic of a pair of earbuds!


----------



## Chessnaudio

My Liebesleid and Hiby R5


----------



## Rary

waynes world said:


> Thanks, but I'm not sure that mod is for the ST10S?


That's indeed @furyossa 's rivet mod applied to the ST10s Black and Gold drivers. It's much better now, i always found Smabat tuning to be thin sounding and fatiguing in the 3-4kzh area. In MX500 shells + Rivet mod it retains the good beefy bass but with a much natural and pleasant presentation.





I have a few guides in the making for both Rivet mod and Smabat drivers if you are interested in testing one



WoodyLuvr said:


> Thank you for sharing! I really enjoy espying others' collections. I don't think you have enough earbuds...  LOL! Great start though.
> 
> Funny to think that exactly one year ago I was sitting on nearly three hundred (300) earbuds; sixty (60) plus IEMS; twenty (20) plus headphones; ten (10) pair of speakers; thirty-six (36) amps and dacs; twenty plus (20+) separate two-channel components; and hundreds and I mean literally hundreds of cables, adapters, & interconnects.
> 
> Now I am sitting on five (5) earbuds; one (1) pair of headphones; one (1) headphone amp; two (2) DACs; and maybe only twenty-five or so (25) cables & adapters. Still hunting around (testing & demoing) for the perfect DAC for my headAMP.


The collection is steadily growing and i'm afraid it will get even bigger next 11.11


----------



## firesign

Scuba Devils said:


> I gave in to temptation... now for the long wait


I am waiting for 11.11…


----------



## Scuba Devils

firesign said:


> I am waiting for 11.11…



Yeah that occurred to me but I felt these were already reduced so went ahead. I'll keep an eye on others for 11.11, maybe something from VE or Smabat.


----------



## waynes world

Rary said:


> That's indeed @furyossa 's rivet mod applied to the ST10s Black and Gold drivers. It's much better now, i always found Smabat tuning to be thin sounding and fatiguing in the 3-4kzh area. In MX500 shells + Rivet mod it retains the good beefy bass but with a much natural and pleasant presentation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I enjoy the ST10S's off of my Fiio E12 amp, which seems to reduce that 3-4kzh area, and it works nicely for me.

But that mod is very interesting. I'd consider it if I thought I had nearly the skittles to do it lol.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

waynes world said:


> I enjoy the ST10S's off of my Fiio E12 amp, which seems to reduce that 3-4kzh area, and it works nicely for me.
> 
> But that mod is very interesting. I'd consider it if I thought I had nearly the skittles to do it lol.


He could help you... watch at 01:40


----------



## chinmie

WoodyLuvr said:


> Thank you for sharing! I really enjoy espying others' collections. I don't think you have enough earbuds...  LOL! Great start though.
> 
> Funny to think that exactly one year ago I was sitting on nearly three hundred (300) earbuds; sixty (60) plus IEMS; twenty (20) plus headphones; ten (10) pair of speakers; thirty-six (36) amps and dacs; twenty plus (20+) separate two-channel components; and hundreds and I mean literally hundreds of cables, adapters, & interconnects.
> 
> Now I am sitting on five (5) earbuds; one (1) pair of headphones; one (1) headphone amp; two (2) DACs; and maybe only twenty-five or so (25) cables & adapters. Still hunting around (testing & demoing) for the perfect DAC for my headAMP.



I'm not at the minimalist level as you are now yet, i certainly can remove several earphones out of my collection to slim it down more...maybe in this near future


----------



## Charlyro222

Just received today from the link put it many posts ago.
This the LBBS model I think .


----------



## sunsun89

Charlyro222 said:


> Just received today from the link put it many posts ago.
> This the LBBS model I think .


do you like it or not?


----------



## SiggyFraud

Charlyro222 said:


> Just received today from the link put it many posts ago.
> This the LBBS model I think .


It sure is. You can tell by the marking on the box, as well as the black, fabric sheathing on the lower part of the cable.


----------



## emusic13

LBBS


----------



## thamasha69

WoodyLuvr said:


> By popular demand and request (aka incessant badgering... just joking ! I was more than happy to do it, I simply just kept forgetting to ask the creator for all the relevant data; sorry all 🙏) I have duly updated the *Earbud Timeline* with *Bisoy Buds/Newbsound Earbuds* accordingly. There is a growing number of us earbud fanatics and flathead fiends that truly believe that custom builders such as *@irv003 *are the future of earbuds, not low & mid-fi corporations, who will truly drive and steer earbuds to new and greater heights. We need to support them as best as we can to ensure that are beloved transducer medium continues to flourish. The following is the entire collection that has been added to the timeline:
> 
> 
> *BISOY BUDS BLACK (BBB) / NEWBSOUND*
> 2019 - BBB v1 (32Ω; Bisoy Buds Black; currently Newbsound)​2019 - BBB v2 (32Ω; Bisoy Buds Black; currently Newbsound)​2019 - BBB v2.5 (32Ω; Bisoy Buds Black; currently Newbsound)​2020 - Newbsound v2.5 (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - NewbsoundMod Silver Docomo (16Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - Newbsound Lite (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - Newbsound X (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - Newbsound 140 (140Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - Newbsound 32LCP (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - Newbsound 130LCP (130Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - Newbsound Bio (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - NewbsoundMod Vido (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - Newbsound PK (16Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​*2021 - Newbsound 32pro (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)*​​The *Newbsound 32pro* is the current available model and what would a post on the _Earbuds Round-Up_ thread be without a stellar pic of a pair of earbuds!


I am so happy to see this! Truly stellar sounding buds- the closest of any headphone I've found that captures what I love about my 2 channel home stereo.


----------



## mervindc146

WoodyLuvr said:


> By popular demand and request (aka incessant badgering... just joking ! I was more than happy to do it, I simply just kept forgetting to ask the creator for all the relevant data; sorry all 🙏) I have duly updated the *Earbud Timeline* with *Bisoy Buds/Newbsound Earbuds* accordingly. There is a growing number of us earbud fanatics and flathead fiends that truly believe that custom builders such as *@irv003 *are the future of earbuds, not low & mid-fi corporations, who will truly drive and steer earbuds to new and greater heights. We need to support them as best as we can to ensure that are beloved transducer medium continues to flourish. The following is the entire collection that has been added to the timeline:
> 
> 
> *BISOY BUDS BLACK (BBB) / NEWBSOUND*
> 2019 - BBB v1 (32Ω; Bisoy Buds Black; currently Newbsound)​2019 - BBB v2 (32Ω; Bisoy Buds Black; currently Newbsound)​2019 - BBB v2.5 (32Ω; Bisoy Buds Black; currently Newbsound)​2020 - Newbsound v2.5 (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - NewbsoundMod Silver Docomo (16Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - Newbsound Lite (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - Newbsound X (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - Newbsound 140 (140Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - Newbsound 32LCP (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - Newbsound 130LCP (130Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - Newbsound Bio (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - NewbsoundMod Vido (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - Newbsound PK (16Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​*2021 - Newbsound 32pro (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)*​​The *Newbsound 32pro* is the current available model and what would a post on the _Earbuds Round-Up_ thread be without a stellar pic of a pair of earbuds!


Bisoy is one of the legends of modding here in the Philippines and I would love to grab what he has to offer right now (if only somebody is willing to ship them from US to PH).

With Bisoy the frontliner of lokal modding now being recognized internationally, I would also love to introduce lots of great modders from our country. I hope that what I do wouldn't be in vain just because of international borders and oceans dividing us. I do hope I'll get news one day that some lokal modders are getting the recognition they deserve as well in ingernational waters 😊


----------



## Charlyro222

Just ordered a Newbsound 32pro. 
Let's see how good is.


----------



## Scuba Devils

Charlyro222 said:


> Just ordered a Newbsound 32pro.
> Let's see how good is.



I just confirmed price and shipping for 32pro with 4.4mm and plan to order in the next couple of days...


----------



## Charlyro222

Scuba Devils said:


> I just confirmed price and shipping for 32pro with 4.4mm and plan to order in the next couple of days...


How is Em5 compare with your blurs?


----------



## Scuba Devils

Charlyro222 said:


> How is Em5 compare with your blurs?



In very brief summary, I find it a more relaxed bud and better suited to longer sessions with chilled music, predominantly ambient or modern classical. I find I'm reaching for either Blur for more energetic music, anything from techno to rock - fatigue does kick in though after a bit but in shorter sessions which tends to be the case with those genres anyway, both fantastic.


----------



## thamasha69

Can't wait to hear everyone's thoughts on the Newbsound 32pro when they receive them 👍


----------



## mochill

Definitely agree that bisoy buds are the best tuned and value in the bud realm . I have all of them except the 32pro which will join me soon in the future 😁


----------



## Chessnaudio

Where to buy?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Chessnaudio said:


> Where to buy?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16628310


----------



## foniak

How does Newbsound 32pro compare to eb2, yuin pk3 (original), x6, lbbs..? Im tempted to buy the lbbs but man that weird small desing looks odd. I like the classic case best.


----------



## baskingshark

Some photos and production updates of the upcoming SMABAT M3 Pro, seems they are heavily doing R&D in the labryinth design:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/135840535288493/posts/211670197705526/


----------



## LegendaryDuelist

Hello everyone, first post here.
I've been an IEM guy for a long time, my first earbud was the toneking dendroaspis viridis, and being the only one in my collection.
I enjoyed the large soundstage, but bass is really shy in the dendro.
I want to upgrade, go into endgame if possible, I'm looking into getting the rose maria I or II, can anyone tell me if the II is really worth the 100+usd over the I? What are the differences?
Thanks!


----------



## gazzington

My shozy bk have turned up. Going to have a listen on the wm1z later


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 15, 2022)

LegendaryDuelist said:


> Hello everyone, first post here.
> I've been an IEM guy for a long time, my first earbud was the toneking dendroaspis viridis, and being the only one in my collection.
> I enjoyed the large soundstage, but bass is really shy in the dendro.
> I want to upgrade, go into endgame if possible, I'm looking into getting the rose maria I or II, can anyone tell me if the II is really worth the 100+usd over the I? What are the differences?
> Thanks!


Here is an excellent brief by *@ClieOS* on the Maria II:

_One thing to note before ordering is that there are two version of Maria II - one with 14.8mm nozzle size (same size as original Maria and Mojito) and one with 16mm nozzle side (similar to that of MX500 shell). Both version sound exactly the same and the nozzle size only affects the fit. For most people, 16mm is probably going to be the better choice but I ordered the 14.8mm myself (as I have found a way to get them to fit me perfectly with Maria and Mojito)._​​_As for sound - think of it with a sound signature between (*Simphonio SW-Dragon 3*) D2+ and D3 - bright and very well extended treble, somewhat warm on the mid range, good deep punching but moderate low-end with a super massive soundstage. Listening to it pretty much equal to listening a miniature open back on-ear rather than an earbud. because of how 'out-of-the-ear' it sounds, even wider than the original Maria and definitely the widest sounding earbud in the market (edit: I now think that the Toneking (MrZ - MusicMaker) Dendroaspis Viridis; 32Ω aka Green Mamba is the king of soundstage width)._​​_Sensitivity: 104 dB_​_Impedance: 14 ohm_​


----------



## LegendaryDuelist

WoodyLuvr said:


> Here is an excellent brief by *@ClieOS* on the Maria II:
> 
> _One thing to note before ordering is that there are two version of Maria II - one with 14.8mm nozzle size (same size as original Maria and Mojito) and one with 16mm nozzle side (similar to that of MX500 shell). Both version sound exactly the same and the nozzle size only affects the fit. For most people, 16mm is probably going to be the better choice but I ordered the 14.8mm myself (as I have found a way to get them to fit me perfectly with Maria and Mojito)._​​_As for sound - think of it with a sound signature between (*Simphonio SW-Dragon 3*) D2+ and D3 - bright and very well extended treble, somewhat warm on the mid range, good deep punching but moderate low-end with a super massive soundstage. Listening to it pretty much equal to listening a miniature open back on-ear rather than an earbud. because of how 'out-of-the-ear' it sounds, even wider than the original Maria and definitely the widest sounding earbud in the market._​​_Sensitivity: 104 dB_​_Impedance: 14 ohm_​


Nice, it seems to be a very interesting set, my main dilemma is that I don't really have anything to compare since I was an IEM-only guy  In iems I usually like balanced with bass boost/neutral, I enjoy bright neutral too, the tin t2 being one of my all time favorites.

I really like the dendroaspis, I think it is a bright earbud? At least to my ears, I don't dislike the treble quantity and I enjoy listening to music with female vocals on them, jpop mainly. But yeah, dendroaspis can sound thin to my ears sometimes, bass is non-existent.
My guess is that I would enjoy the Maria, I'm just debating between the I or II. I think the II has a bery driver? Not sure if that changes sound quality a lot.


----------



## Scuba Devils

gazzington said:


> My shozy bk have turned up. Going to have a listen on the wm1z later



Oh look forward to your impressions! My Penon BS1 still in transit limbo...


----------



## gazzington

Scuba Devils said:


> Oh look forward to your impressions! My Penon BS1 still in transit limbo...


Quick impression is that it’s very nice. Kind of an all rounder. Sounding good with anything I play. Very comfortable pk shells. Nicely made earbud with a nice cable. Doesn’t come with much, just a case and a few foams.


----------



## gazzington

Was going to add that it seems like an earbud that you can use for hours as it’s comfortable and not at all fatiguing


----------



## Scuba Devils

Ok, I'll be buying that next so!


----------



## Alex.Grimm

*DQSM Audio PD21*
https://aliexpress.ru/item/1005003450095775.html


----------



## Scuba Devils

gazzington said:


> Was going to add that it seems like an earbud that you can use for hours as it’s comfortable and not at all fatiguing



Is the cable stiff or soft? How about microphonics? That's a downside for me with 266 Blurs.


----------



## gazzington

Scuba Devils said:


> Is the cable stiff or soft? How about microphonics? That's a downside for me with 266 Blurs.


It’s quite soft. I didn’t pick up any microphonics from my initial listening but I’ll test again tomorrow


----------



## Scuba Devils

gazzington said:


> It’s quite soft. I didn’t pick up any microphonics from my initial listening but I’ll test again tomorrow



Cool, thank you.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Seems like a good deal?





https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32862242533.html


----------



## emusic13

Scuba Devils said:


> Is the cable stiff or soft? How about microphonics? That's a downside for me with 266 Blurs.


Mine has no microphonics too. One of the most comfortable cables on an earbud.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> Seems like a good deal?
> 
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32862242533.html


OG Yinman 150ohm was always in between $32-$34. 
$43 ,,,, yeah right


----------



## baskingshark

furyossa said:


> OG Yinman 150ohm was always in between $32-$34.
> $43 ,,,, yeah right



It is a usual Aliexpress trick to jack up the prices before a big sale (like 11/11), then they give a "discount" for the sale date, which brings us back to square one!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Oct 29, 2021)

LegendaryDuelist said:


> Nice, it seems to be a very interesting set, my main dilemma is that I don't really have anything to compare since I was an IEM-only guy  In iems I usually like balanced with bass boost/neutral, I enjoy bright neutral too, the tin t2 being one of my all time favorites.
> 
> I really like the dendroaspis, I think it is a bright earbud? At least to my ears, I don't dislike the treble quantity and I enjoy listening to music with female vocals on them, jpop mainly. But yeah, dendroaspis can sound thin to my ears sometimes, bass is non-existent.
> My guess is that I would enjoy the Maria, I'm just debating between the I or II. I think the II has a bery driver? Not sure if that changes sound quality a lot.


Maybe *@Alex.Grimm* can shed some light on the _Dendroaspis Viridis_ as he still has it. I found it slightly too sibilant for my personal tastes but many people think rather highly of it that are not sensitive to bright signatures. The _Rose Technics Maria I or II_ are both nice earbuds as well and sit in the same general area as the _Dendroaspis Viridis_ with improved (wider) soundstage and a tad bit better timbre in my opinion. Though I found the _Dendroaspis Viridis_, like many other Toneking-MusicMaker-MrZ-Tiankui) brand earbuds, to be extremely detailed and really great for fast paced and dynamic music like heavy metal, trap, dubstep, bop jazz, speedcore, black midi, etc.

*EDIT*
I found an older post from *@Alex.Grimm* where he mentions his _Dendroaspis Viridis _having a transparent manner of sound and I think this is an excellent description of it.


Alex.Grimm said:


> *Astrotec Lyra Nature* has good separation and detail, speed, sound technicality, the amount of bass in the recording (not for bass heads), clear high-frequency frequencies of good quality add airiness. For comparison, the first thing that comes to mind is *Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis, but Viridis has a transparent manner of sound*, while Lyra Nature has a touch of warmth and a denser body texture, but not as dense as the Yincrow RW-2000.


----------



## gazzington

Scuba Devils said:


> Is the cable stiff or soft? How about microphonics? That's a downside for me with 266 Blurs.


No microphonics on mine as far as I can tell


----------



## dw1narso

baskingshark said:


> Some photos and production updates of the upcoming SMABAT M3 Pro, seems they are heavily doing R&D in the labryinth design:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/135840535288493/posts/211670197705526/


seemed like good dedicated R&D...

I wonder what they are trying to do... with such a small room and short distance... it couldn't be a transmission line labyrinth... since transmission line labyrinth need to be in between 1/4 to 1/2 wavelength of resonant frequency... (which mean in meters long)

maybe they are trying to breakup the standing wave?


----------



## baskingshark

dw1narso said:


> seemed like good dedicated R&D...
> 
> I wonder what they are trying to do... with such a small room and short distance... it couldn't be a transmission line labyrinth... since transmission line labyrinth need to be in between 1/4 to 1/2 wavelength of resonant frequency... (which mean in meters long)
> 
> maybe they are trying to breakup the standing wave?



haha I'm no physics expert, but Smabat Lin posted some new updates on the ST20S here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/135840535288493/posts/212648427607703/, describing some details of this labryinth acoustic design.

He says the labryinth design is to increase the bass. I think that works, those Smabat earbuds that I bought in their lineup (eg Smabat ST10, ST10S Black Gold, M2S Pro) have copious subbass, much more than the average earbud.


----------



## shenshen

WoodyLuvr said:


> By popular demand and request (aka incessant badgering... just joking ! I was more than happy to do it, I simply just kept forgetting to ask the creator for all the relevant data; sorry all 🙏) I have duly updated the *Earbud Timeline* with *Bisoy Buds/Newbsound Earbuds* accordingly. There is a growing number of us earbud fanatics and flathead fiends that truly believe that custom builders such as *@irv003 *are the future of earbuds, not low & mid-fi corporations, who will truly drive and steer earbuds to new and greater heights. We need to support them as best as we can to ensure that are beloved transducer medium continues to flourish. The following is the entire collection that has been added to the timeline:
> 
> 
> *BISOY BUDS BLACK (BBB) / NEWBSOUND*
> 2019 - BBB v1 (32Ω; Bisoy Buds Black; currently Newbsound)​2019 - BBB v2 (32Ω; Bisoy Buds Black; currently Newbsound)​2019 - BBB v2.5 (32Ω; Bisoy Buds Black; currently Newbsound)​2020 - Newbsound v2.5 (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - NewbsoundMod Silver Docomo (16Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - Newbsound Lite (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - Newbsound X (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - Newbsound 140 (140Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - Newbsound 32LCP (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - Newbsound 130LCP (130Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - Newbsound Bio (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - NewbsoundMod Vido (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​2021 - Newbsound PK (16Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​*2021 - Newbsound 32pro (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)*​​The *Newbsound 32pro* is the current available model and what would a post on the _Earbuds Round-Up_ thread be without a stellar pic of a pair of earbuds!


Awesome to see this, I highly encourage anyone with the means to give the 32pro's a shot. While I do not personally have the 32pro's, I do have the newbsound X and they won't be leaving my rotation. They're VERY good. Very well priced especially if you're in the US.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

baskingshark said:


> haha I'm no physics expert, but Smabat Lin posted some new updates on the ST20S here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/135840535288493/posts/212648427607703/, describing some details of this labryinth acoustic design.
> 
> He says the labryinth design is to increase the bass. I think that works, those Smabat earbuds that I bought in their lineup (eg Smabat ST10, ST10S Black Gold, M2S Pro) have copious subbass, much more than the average earbud.


Yes, most of these pipe, flute, turbo, twin turbo, maze, labyrinth designs are all chasing improved bass and sub-bass performance and ever since the Golden Age of earbuds with the early Sony and Aiwa series earbuds.


----------



## Rick1982

Hi all, I'm new in this thread and in the earbuds world in general...
For a very very newbie like me... where to start? There is an absolute best buy earbud or an earbud that can't be miss in your collection?
I'm trying to read this thread but 3891 pages... it's hard.
Thanks to all in advance.


----------



## ian91 (Oct 29, 2021)

Rick1982 said:


> Hi all, I'm new in this thread and in the earbuds world in general...
> For a very very newbie like me... where to start? There is an absolute best buy earbud or an earbud that can't be miss in your collection?
> I'm trying to read this thread but 3891 pages... it's hard.
> Thanks to all in advance.



Check out this veritable treasure trove of information from @WoodyLuvr on all things flathead earbuds - here.

It depends on what you're after really tonality-wise and what budget you've got, but common recommendations are the Yincrow X6 and K's LBBs to start with.

Earbuds are easily one of the deepest rabbit holes in audio. Have fun!


----------



## KutuzovGambit (Oct 29, 2021)

.


----------



## baskingshark

Anybody see any good deals for earbuds for Aliexpress 11/11 sales?

Aliexpress seems to have very meh deals this round. Some of my local online portals eg Lazada and Shopee have cheaper prices now (non sale period) then the forecasted Aliexpress 11/11 sales.


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> Anybody see any good deals for earbuds for Aliexpress 11/11 sales?
> 
> Aliexpress seems to have very meh deals this round. Some of my local online portals eg Lazada and Shopee have cheaper prices now (non sale period) then the forecasted Aliexpress 11/11 sales.


Moondrop Chaconne is at 270 usd instead of 320 usd.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> Moondrop Chaconne is at 270 usd instead of 320 usd.


Wow! That is an excellent price. I don't think I have seen it under $319 for sometime now.


----------



## Charlyro222

RikudouGoku said:


> Moondrop Chaconne is at 270 usd instead of 320 usd.


What´s about it´s FR ?.
I´m thinking on this one or Fiio EM5


----------



## RikudouGoku

Charlyro222 said:


> What´s about it´s FR ?.
> I´m thinking on this one or Fiio EM5


No graph on it. Its a neutral to bright neutral bud.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Charlyro222 said:


> What´s about it´s FR ?.
> I´m thinking on this one or Fiio EM5





RikudouGoku said:


> No graph on it. Its a neutral to bright neutral bud.


But be warned the Chaconne, like the Turandot, are the slipperiest of buggers requiring the nimblest of fingers


----------



## n00b

Charlyro222 said:


> What´s about it´s FR ?.
> I´m thinking on this one or Fiio EM5


if you like bass, EM5
if you like upper mids and treble, chaconne

personally i had both. and while i like bass, i also like vocals, and found EM5 to excel in bass but everything else sounded weird to me. chaconne has only midbass but the mids and treble are incredible. fit were bad for both on me.


----------



## LegendaryDuelist

WoodyLuvr said:


> Maybe *@Alex.Grimm* can shed some light on the _Dendroaspis Viridis_ as he still has it. I found it slightly too sibilant for my personal tastes but many people think rather highly of it that are not sensitive to bright signatures. The _Rose Technics Maria I or II_ are both nice earbuds as well and sit in the same general area as the _Dendroaspis Viridis_ with improved (wider) soundstage and a tad bit better timbre in my opinion. Though I found the _Dendroaspis Viridis_, like many other Toneking-MusicMaker-MrZ-Tiankui) brand earbuds, to be extremely detailed and really great for fast paced and dynamic music like heavy metal, trap, dubstep, bop jazz, speedcore, black midi, etc.
> 
> *EDIT*
> I found an older post from *@Alex.Grimm* where he mentions his _Dendroaspis Viridis _having a transparent manner of sound and I think this is an excellent description of it.


I'm just wondering about the bass in the Maria I/II, bass from dendroaspis was too light for my taste, I tried some eq in the dendro but it starts distorting at medium-high volume levels, sadly.


----------



## Scuba Devils

Charlyro222 said:


> What´s about it´s FR ?.
> I´m thinking on this one or Fiio EM5



I personally love EM5, my top choice bud at the moment. As with any earphone though, I think a lot of the synergy depends on music choice and EM5 happens to suit mine perfectly.


----------



## gazzington

Scuba Devils said:


> I personally love EM5, my top choice bud at the moment. As with any earphone though, I think a lot of the synergy depends on music choice and EM5 happens to suit mine perfectly.


I think em5 will be my next purchase


----------



## Scuba Devils

gazzington said:


> I think em5 will be my next purchase



Shozy BK mine! My Newbsound 32pro shipped today.


----------



## gazzington

Scuba Devils said:


> Shozy BK mine! My Newbsound 32pro shipped today.


I’ve been thinking of getting a newbsound too!


----------



## emusic13

gazzington said:


> I’ve been thinking of getting a newbsound too!


They're a good match


----------



## KutuzovGambit

Just a note that @RikudouGoku wasn't lying: K’s LBBs is _insanely_ resolving.


----------



## feverfive

KutuzovGambit said:


> Just a note that @RikudouGoku wasn't lying: K’s LBBs is _insanely_ resolving.


Interesting... I know they are highly regarded.

I am just now entering the world of ear buds, and am still awaiting a set of Yincrow X6 and  set of Qian39.  At this stage, I'm merely trying to figure out what types of shells will fit me best (or at all).  If the X6 fit, I might just get a set of the RW-2000 (because I'd prefer detachable cable) and call it a day as my usage will not be for music listening.  I just wanting something to use for Youtube/video conference calls/Netflix/movies that doesn't involve bulky cans or sticking objects into my ear canals.


----------



## KutuzovGambit (Oct 29, 2021)

feverfive said:


> Interesting... I know they are highly regarded.
> 
> I am just now entering the world of ear buds, and am still awaiting a set of Yincrow X6 and  set of Qian39.  At this stage, I'm merely trying to figure out what types of shells will fit me best (or at all).  If the X6 fit, I might just get a set of the RW-2000 (because I'd prefer detachable cable) and call it a day as my usage will not be for music listening.  I just wanting something to use for Youtube/video conference calls/Netflix/movies that doesn't involve bulky cans or sticking objects into my ear canals.


Just a note that at least in my limited experience and when worn straight down, detachable cables may have an adverse impact on fit due to the increased weight outside the concha from the connectors (and usually thicker/heavier cable too).

The X6 itself is quite good for the use cases you mentioned IMO.


----------



## feverfive

KutuzovGambit said:


> Just a note that at least in my limited experience and when worn straight down, detachable cables may have an adverse impact on fit due to the increased weight outside the concha from the connectors (and usually thicker/heavier cable too).
> 
> The X6 itself is quite good for the use cases you mentioned IMO.


_But why spend only $13 when I could spend $150 as well?_    

I'm fine with potential weight issues for detachable cables as well.  I've had too many fixed cable transducers crap-out on me over the years, and they pretty much always failed at the ear piece connection point.


----------



## KutuzovGambit

feverfive said:


> _But why spend only $13 when I could spend $150 as well?_
> 
> I'm fine with potential weight issues for detachable cables as well.  I've had too many fixed cable transducers crap-out on me over the years, and they pretty much always failed at the ear piece connection point.


I feel you, but just cause it has to be said if you’re afraid of breakage you could _literally buy 11 copies of the X6 instead and still save money_, lol.


----------



## Rick1982

FAAEAL Rosemary
Yincrow X6
EMX500
VE Monk+
2 from this group to start?


----------



## jeejack (Oct 30, 2021)

From my point of view none! Maybe X6


----------



## Rick1982

jeejack said:


> From my point of view none!


Ok, any model to suggest?


----------



## feverfive

Received the X6 and Qian39 earlier today.  I've only had a chance to try the X6 for now.  Using those silicone rings that fit around the ear piece, the X6 seem to fit in my concha well, and stay put.

Sound-wise, well.....I am really used to the Ety ER4XR with my laptop usage, hahaha.  The X6 :shocker: is a completely different experience.  They sound like I am listening underwater compared to the ER4XR, but strangely, I think I like it?  Not sure.

As I've said, my use case for buds will be laptop use (Youtube, video calls, Netflix, movies).  My pursuit of buds is all about seeking something with a small form factor like IEMs, but without the need to jam things into my ear canals.  I'm not expecting sonic miracles here, hahaha.

I need to spend some time with these and the Qian39 to confirm my initial impressions regarding fit, and then decide if an 11/11 sale-priced higher tier bud is worth the roll of the dice.  I'm used to kilobuck IEMs at this point, so I am very cool with being sub-$200 on a set of buds that can last me for the long haul.  It is worth this tiny initial investment to confirm that MX500-type shells will fit me just fine, as I simply was not at all sure about that before today.

Thanks to all who have given me guidance over the past month or so.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Rick1982 said:


> FAAEAL Rosemary
> Yincrow X6
> EMX500
> VE Monk+
> 2 from this group to start?


X6 only


----------



## jeejack

Rick1982 said:


> Ok, any model to suggest?


I can only recommend some drivers! I make my own buds


----------



## KutuzovGambit (Oct 30, 2021)

feverfive said:


> Received the X6 and Qian39 earlier today.  I've only had a chance to try the X6 for now.  Using those silicone rings that fit around the ear piece, the X6 seem to fit in my concha well, and stay put.
> 
> Sound-wise, well.....I am really used to the Ety ER4XR with my laptop usage, hahaha.  The X6 :shocker: is a completely different experience.  They sound like I am listening underwater compared to the ER4XR, but strangely, I think I like it?  Not sure.
> 
> ...


If nothing else, it's good knowing the MX500 fits you decently.

Another option you may want to look into is the Smabat M2S Pro (or upcoming M3) which has a modular design so you can swap drivers according to preference, as well as the detachable cables. I don't own it myself but seems like it may tick your boxes.


----------



## KutuzovGambit

Rick1982 said:


> Ok, any model to suggest?


Qian39 for PK, Faaeal Iris 2.0 for MX500.


----------



## baskingshark

Rick1982 said:


> FAAEAL Rosemary
> Yincrow X6
> EMX500
> VE Monk+
> 2 from this group to start?



Do you have an amp?

The FAAEAL Rosemary is 150 ohms and needs amping to sound good. It is an L shaped dark set, very warm and non fatiguing. Not for trebleheads.


X6 is like a BLON BL-03 of the earbud world. Warm V shaped set, Nice delicious bass. Good timbre but lacks technicalities (like the BLON BL-03). It is easier to drive than the Rosemary.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> X6 only


Sorry but not for everyone


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Oct 31, 2021)

feverfive said:


> ...Sound-wise, well.....I am really used to the Ety ER4XR with my laptop usage, hahaha.  The X6 :shocker: is a completely different experience.  They sound like I am listening underwater compared to the ER4XR, but strangely, I think I like it?  Not sure...
> 
> ...I need to spend some time with these and the Qian39 to confirm my initial impressions regarding fit, and then decide if an 11/11 sale-priced higher tier bud is worth the roll of the dice...


You definitely need to give it more than a few days for your ears and brain to adjust... it takes a good week, two, or longer for ears & brains to fully adjust to a new sound signature; new transducer medium; and/or set-up (in cases of loudspeakers and their repositioning and/or added room treatments). Certain frequencies may seem at first to be over-exaggerated; missing; distorted (excited); and/or veiled but they typically will balance out and settle down with time as your ears and brains adjust accordingly. Therefore, nailing down the true sound signature of a transducer, is extremely difficult to initially-quickly ascertain... especially with certain models and particular brands with unique house tunings.

Also experiment with fit... earbuds have their own fitting requirements... not nearly as critical as with IEMs (getting that 'seal') but nonetheless do require a proper fit in their own right as do all head/earphones really. This has been discussed, at great lengths, throughout the history of this thread (here are two examples that you might find helpful regarding "earbud fitting": *Post #26,082* and *Post #22,897*. I, and many others here on this thread, would highly encourage that you to try various foam combinations to see if that improves the experience for you. Finding that perfect earbud is highly dependent on "the fit". Earbuds are prone to fitting issues due to mostly ear size but also anatomical variances between individuals. The use of foams to improve "the fit" can and does change the sound signature... sometimes drastically for better or worse and thus needs to be seriously factored in as accordingly

Personally, I always found it much easier to go between my earbuds and open back headphones than to an IEM or a closed back and vice versa. Once you figure out the best fitting/setting, with or without foams, you'll soon see that earbuds although with less bass do offer a much wider soundstage with improved timbre and separation... and via a much more comfortable, cooler, and long listening package.

Good luck and welcome to the rabbit hole!


----------



## Scuba Devils

WoodyLuvr said:


> You definitely need to give it more than a few days for your ears and brain to adjust... it takes a good week, two, or longer for ears & brains to fully adjust to a new sound signature; new transducer medium; and/or set-up (in cases of loudspeakers and their repositioning and/or added room treatments). Certain frequencies may seem at first to be over-exaggerated; missing; distorted (excited); and/or veiled but they typically will balance out and settle down with time as your ears and brains adjust accordingly. Therefore, nailing down the true sound signature of a transducer, is extremely difficult to initially-quickly ascertain... especially with certain models and particular brands with unique house tunings.
> 
> Also experiment with fit... earbuds have their own fitting requirements... not nearly as critical as with IEMs (getting that 'seal') but nonetheless do require a proper fit in their own right as do all head/earphones really. This has been discussed, at great lengths, throughout the history of this thread (here are two examples that you might find helpful regarding "earbud fitting": *Post #26,082* and *Post #22,897*. I, and many others here on this thread, would highly encourage that you to try various foam combinations to see if that improves the experience for you. Finding that perfect earbud is highly dependent on "the fit". Earbuds are prone to fitting issues due to mostly ear size but also anatomical variances between individuals. The use of foams to improve "the fit" can and does change the sound signature... sometimes drastically for better or worse and thus needs to be seriously factored in as accordingly
> 
> ...



100% re the fit - I've found recently with mx shells that if I give them a slight forward twist on insertion, I get a better seal and makes a massive difference.


----------



## dissociativity (Oct 31, 2021)

Why is the 1More E1008 so slept on here? It seems to both have reviews here:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/1more-dual-driver-buds.25062/
and here:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/1more1008-earbud.22232/reviews
I find they have the best sub-bass extension of any earbud with exceptional soundstage and treble details feel distinctly unique sounding due to the piezo


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Oct 31, 2021)

dissociativity said:


> Why is the 1More E1008 so slept on here? It seems to both have reviews here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/1more-dual-driver-buds.25062/
> and here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/1more1008-earbud.22232/reviews
> I find they have the best sub-bass extension of any earbud with exceptional soundstage and treble details feel distinctly unique sounding due to the piezo


Yes, they are an exquisitely designed, extremely well-built, and truly sexy-looking dual driver earbud... composed of a dynamic driver and a multi-layer ceramic tweeter. They offer a very relaxing, laid-back signature that unfortunately can be rather dark and too smooth for many people's listening tastes. The mids are noticeably recessed (V-Shape) and quite veiled which some people detest. This veil didn't bother me at all but the ultra-smoothness did... resulting in poor resolution (clarity and detail) which adversely effects the timbre. Audiophiles generally do tend to gravitate away from V-Shape signatures as they grow in the hobby, especially with earphones (earbuds & IEMs), due to such potential side effects with clarity and timbre. Coupled with a design that is ever so slightly clunky for some whom may find the fit to be troublesome... similar awkward weight balance issues as seen with the Moondrop Chaconne where the longer stems can act like a fulcrum (lever), pulling the head & face out of the ear when the cable moves. I always felt that perhaps 1More were a few years too early with this type of design and technology.


----------



## gazzington

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, they are an exquisitely designed, extremely well built, and sexy-looking dual driver earbud... composed of a dynamic driver and a multi-layer ceramic tweeter. Perhaps they were a few years too early with this type of design. They offer a very relaxing, laid-back signature that can be rather dark and way too smooth for many tastes. The mids are noticeably recessed (V-Shape) and quite veiled which some people detest. This veil didn't bother me at all but the ultra-smoothness resulting in poor resolution (clarity and detail) did as it adversely effects timbre. Audiophiles also generally do tend to gravitate away from V-Shape signatures especially with earphones (earbuds & IEMs) so there is that to consider as well. Couple that with a design that is ever so slightly clunky for some whom may find the fit to be troublesome... similar awkward weight balance issues as seen with the Moondrop Chaconne where the long stems can act like a fulcrum (lever).


I don’t own the chaconne but am worried about the weight of it. Really love the shozy bk for comfort and sound. What would be an upgrade to it?


----------



## dissociativity

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, they are an exquisitely designed, extremely well-built, and truly sexy-looking dual driver earbud... composed of a dynamic driver and a multi-layer ceramic tweeter. They offer a very relaxing, laid-back signature that unfortunately can be rather dark and too smooth for many people's listening tastes. The mids are noticeably recessed (V-Shape) and quite veiled which some people detest. This veil didn't bother me at all but the ultra-smoothness did... resulting in poor resolution (clarity and detail) which adversely effects the timbre. Audiophiles generally do tend to gravitate away from V-Shape signatures as they grow in the hobby, especially with earphones (earbuds & IEMs), due to such potential side effects with clarity and timbre. Coupled with a design that is ever so slightly clunky for some whom may find the fit to be troublesome... similar awkward weight balance issues as seen with the Moondrop Chaconne where the longer stems can act like a fulcrum (lever), pulling the head & face out of the ear when the cable moves. I always felt that perhaps 1More were a few years too early with this type of design and technology.


yeah it isn't perfect for all music for sure, but when it shines, it feels like full sized open backs, which is unique
I want to see more multi-driver earbuds.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Oct 31, 2021)

gazzington said:


> I don’t own the chaconne but am worried about the weight of it. Really love the shozy bk for comfort and sound. What would be an upgrade to it?


Shozy BK is a very unique earbud and what it does, it does very well. I can't think of any direct upgrade currently available. Maybe consider a Ksearphone Bell-Ti or Bell-LBBs; VE Zen LL 150Ω; or perhaps a Blur model with either a PK32 or PK150 driver these are all similar genre earbuds like the BK but with newer driver types.


----------



## gazzington

WoodyLuvr said:


> Shozy BK is a very unique earbud and what it does, it does very well. I can't think of any direct upgrade currently available. Maybe consider a Ksearphone Bell-Ti or Bell-LBBs; VE Zen LL 150Ω; or perhaps a Blur model with either a PK32 or PK150 driver these are all similar genre earbuds like the BK but with newer driver types.


Thanks.  I’ve been considering the ksearphone bell earbuds. What sort of sound signature do they have?  I have a ve zen ll and like it very much. On that note whats the sun dice like?!


----------



## Scuba Devils

Another TOTL bud coming in at $400. Very positive review below. Anyone tried it? 

https://headfonics.com/ucotech-es-p1-review/


----------



## ian91

Scuba Devils said:


> Another TOTL bud coming in at $400. Very positive review below. Anyone tried it?
> 
> https://headfonics.com/ucotech-es-p1-review/



Reads well, except for the lack of mid bite which would put me off as I wouldn't be willing to EQ. Interesting find!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 20, 2022)

Scuba Devils said:


> Another TOTL bud coming in at $400. Very positive review below. Anyone tried it?
> 
> https://headfonics.com/ucotech-es-p1-review/





ian91 said:


> Reads well, except for the lack of mid bite which would put me off as I wouldn't be willing to EQ. Interesting find!


A fellow Thai audiophile and I bought a *Ucotech ES-P1 (~USD455)* and *Audio-Technica ATH-CM2000Ti (~USD475)* together last year and we each spent more than a month comparing the two earbuds with one another. We both found the *ATH-CM2000Ti* performed the best, literally doing circles around the *ES-P1 *which I have to admit is probably one of the nicest made/finished pair of earbuds I have ever laid eyes or hands on. It has this crazy industrial slash steam punk vibe about it that looks really cool... I just wished it sounded as good as it looked. Surprisingly they were quite comfortable despite how heavy (very heavy!) they are being made of solid brass! The *ATH-CM2000Ti *are made out of titanium alloy and thus much lighter in comparison to the *ES-P1* but are still rather large and cumbersome so those with small ears may run into a fit comfort issue with this one (I had trouble wearing them). And although the *ATH-CM2000Ti* leans strongly to the bright side of things and are bass light I still easily preferred them over the warmer *ES-P1*... which is usually my preferred signature but the treble and higher mid-range are so rolled off and lack luster (no sparkle or magic at all) on the *ES-P1 *that it came across rather boring and wonky sounding to me.

If your heart is totally set on ordering a pair I would STRONGLY URGE you order directly from Ucotech's on-line store especially if you are after the ES-P1 as a number of counterfeits have been reported ( *official store here* ). You will need to call/email and arrange shipping with them but they do ship from South Korea.

*EDIT: I personally don't really like the Audio-Technica ATH-CM2000Ti either as it is still too bright and fatiguing for me. I simply found that it performed better than the Ucotech ES-P1 (a personal opinion only).*


----------



## Scuba Devils

WoodyLuvr said:


> A fellow Thai audiophile and I bought a *Ucotech ES-P1 (~USD455)* and *Audio-Technica ATH-CM2000Ti (~USD475)* together last year and we each spent more than a month comparing the two earbuds with one another. We both found the *ATH-CM2000Ti* performed the best, literally doing circles around the *ES-P1 *which I have to admit is probably one of the nicest made/finished pair of earbuds I have ever laid eyes or hands on. It has this crazy industrial slash steam punk vibe about it that looks really cool... I just wished it sounded as good as it looked. Surprisingly they were quite comfortable despite how heavy (very heavy!) they are being made of solid brass! The *ATH-CM2000Ti *are made out of titanium alloy and thus much lighter but are rather large so those with small ears may run into a fit comfort issue with this one (I had troubel wearing them). And although the *ATH-CM2000Ti* leans strongly to the bright side of things and are bass light I still easily preferred them over the warmer *ES-P1*... which is usually my preferred signature but the treble and higher mid-range are so rolled off and lack luster (no sparkle or magic at all) on the *ES-P1 *that it came across rather boring and wonky sounding to me.
> 
> If your heart is totally set on ordering a pair I would STRONGLY URGE you order directly from Ucotech's on-line store especially if you are after the ES-P1 as a number of counterfeits have been reported ( *official store here* ). You will need to call/email and arrange shipping with them but they do ship from South Korea.



Great to hear another perspective, thank you. I have been curious about the ATH-CM2000Ti actually as available from Accessory Jack (who I've purchased a few items from and always super fast delivery with FedEx which makes for an easier purchase decision!) - I had read though they are bright which put me off.

I'd love something with a more premium metal build which is definitely what attracted me to both of the above! Maybe something like the Bell-Ti at some point.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Scuba Devils said:


> Great to hear another perspective, thank you. I have been curious about the ATH-CM2000Ti actually as available from Accessory Jack (who I've purchased a few items from and always super fast delivery with FedEx which makes for an easier purchase decision!) -* I had read though they are bright which put me off.*


They are and thus were very fatiguing to me.


----------



## waynes world

WoodyLuvr said:


> A fellow Thai audiophile and I bought a *Ucotech ES-P1 (~USD455)* and *Audio-Technica ATH-CM2000Ti (~USD475)* together last year and we each spent more than a month comparing the two earbuds with one another. We both found the *ATH-CM2000Ti* performed the best, literally doing circles around the *ES-P1 *which I have to admit is probably one of the nicest made/finished pair of earbuds I have ever laid eyes or hands on. It has this crazy industrial slash steam punk vibe about it that looks really cool... I just wished it sounded as good as it looked. Surprisingly they were quite comfortable despite how heavy (very heavy!) they are being made of solid brass! The *ATH-CM2000Ti *are made out of titanium alloy and thus much lighter but are rather large so those with small ears may run into a fit comfort issue with this one (I had troubel wearing them). And although the *ATH-CM2000Ti* leans strongly to the bright side of things and are bass light I still easily preferred them over the warmer *ES-P1*... which is usually my preferred signature but the treble and higher mid-range are so rolled off and lack luster (no sparkle or magic at all) on the *ES-P1 *that it came across rather boring and wonky sounding to me.
> 
> If your heart is totally set on ordering a pair I would STRONGLY URGE you order directly from Ucotech's on-line store especially if you are after the ES-P1 as a number of counterfeits have been reported ( *official store here* ). You will need to call/email and arrange shipping with them but they do ship from South Korea.



I always enjoy your input/perspective. You're not allowed to ever leave this forum


----------



## Scuba Devils

waynes world said:


> I always enjoy your input/perspective. You're not allowed to ever leave this forum



Agreed, a fantastic balanced voice of reason backed with logical analysis as always.


----------



## KutuzovGambit

Man the LBBs is out here just absolutely _destroying_ transducers many times its price for detail retrieval, timbre, layering and separation… if it only had more soundstage depth…


----------



## RikudouGoku

KutuzovGambit said:


> Man the LBBs is out here just absolutely _destroying_ transducers many times its price for detail retrieval, timbre, layering and separation… if it only had more soundstage depth…


I didnt hype it for nothing you know.


----------



## Scuba Devils

RikudouGoku said:


> I didnt hype it for nothing you know.


 
Mine on order thanks also to your high praise, looking forward! Hasn't left China yet though so it will be a while...


----------



## KutuzovGambit

RikudouGoku said:


> I didnt hype it for nothing you know.


Owe you big.


----------



## Narayan23

KutuzovGambit said:


> Owe you big.


We both do, I purchased the X6 and LBBs because of RG, and also other members´ praise for them and must say they are making up over 75% of my listening. The LBBs has restored my faith into what earbuds can really do, and best of all, at a price I´m prepared to pay (I fall in the "difficult to pay more than €100 unless its magic" earbud camp). I bought mine in the classifieds here for a good price and it´s been one of those purchases that puts a smile on your face because when I put them on all my expectations were met, I still prefer the tonality of the X6 but the LBBs is the superior bud and a phenomenal transducer for vocal / acoustic, pop and classical music.


----------



## Philimon

Which store ships K’s LBBS the fastest? Amazon appears to be slightly faster than Nicehck over on Aliexpress.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Narayan23 said:


> We both do, I purchased the X6 and LBBs because of RG, and also other members´ praise for them and must say they are making up over 75% of my listening. The LBBs has restored my faith into what earbuds can really do, and best of all, at a price I´m prepared to pay (I fall in the "difficult to pay more than €100 unless its magic" earbud camp). I bought mine in the classifieds here for a good price and it´s been one of those purchases that puts a smile on your face because when I put them on all my expectations were met, I still prefer the tonality of the X6 but the LBBs is the superior bud and a phenomenal transducer for vocal / acoustic, pop and classical music.


Glad to hear that.




Narayan23 said:


> I still prefer the tonality of the X6 but the LBBs is the superior bud and a phenomenal transducer for vocal / acoustic, pop and classical music.


Get the best of both worlds then, PEQ + LBBS.


----------



## gazzington

I think I’m going to get the lbbs on 11/11. I love the yincrow x6


----------



## rkw

Philimon said:


> Which store ships K’s LBBS the fastest? Amazon appears to be slightly faster than Nicehck over on Aliexpress.


Amazon has the K’s LBBS? I did a search and couldn't find it on Amazon.


----------



## Philimon

rkw said:


> Amazon has the K’s LBBS? I did a search and couldn't find it on Amazon.


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08FCBMSG...olid=3HUH7RB9JIM85&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


----------



## uneri

For those based in the US, Awedyo Audio has the LBBs too, and at a very good price of USD 40
https://awedyo.com/collections/headphones-iems/products/ksearphone-bell-lb-s-hifi-earphone


----------



## gazzington

Just ordered a fiio em5


----------



## Chessnaudio (Oct 31, 2021)

uneri said:


> For those based in the US, Awedyo Audio has the LBBs too, and at a very good price of USD 40
> https://awedyo.com/collections/headphones-iems/products/ksearphone-bell-lb-s-hifi-earphone


Could be the 2020 version not 2021. Mine came with no earhooks. They sound amazing, but just putting a disclaimer there. Clarify with Awedyo Audio. They are quick to respond. And I didn't care that they had no earhooks, so I kept it


----------



## uneri (Nov 25, 2021)

‎


----------



## Philimon

uneri said:


> For those based in the US, Awedyo Audio has the LBBs too, and at a very good price of USD 40
> https://awedyo.com/collections/headphones-iems/products/ksearphone-bell-lb-s-hifi-earphone


Awedyo Audio and uneri save the day! Thanks, ordered. My Vali2 amp stopped working today (done troubeshooted and out of warranty) so have to finish building my PASS ACA asap.


----------



## Philimon

uneri said:


> The most significant change sound-wise in the 2021 Little Black Bell series (LBBs, White no mic, Black with mic), is that the "White no mic" version has now been upgraded to the same driver and tuning as the LBBs (plus the two same upgrades mentioned above).


So the cheaper white no-mic is essentially the same as the more expensive LBBs? Other than cable/plug/color?


----------



## waynes world

gazzington said:


> I think I’m going to get the lbbs on 11/11. I love the yincrow x6



That's my plan as well. I see that at NiceHCK they will be $47.64 US on 11/11, which is approx $57 CAD. That's in my "for that price, they better be pretty darn good" category. But I am sure that they will be!


----------



## Philimon

In my excitement I ordered but didnt notice I was not asked by seller (awedyo) which version… I hope I get the good one.


----------



## Philimon

I just emailed them with my concern and to confirm I get correct version. Will update


----------



## uneri (Nov 11, 2021)

‎


----------



## Philimon

uneri said:


> The latest 2021 version of the LBBs has better accessories (I think a new cloth carrying pouch?), *an upgraded shell material with higher grade of Magnalium with a thinner inner cavity*, but the driver and tuning is still the same as before.


You sure they sound the same? Not certainly a small difference.


----------



## Rick1982 (Oct 31, 2021)

At last i ordered Lbbs, X6 and K64…
Just try to make experience before considering some higher end and higher price buds.
From what i can read Blur or Fiio EM5 seems great, but i can’t figure how they sound without some references that i know my self.

Thanks to all for the suggestions!
I have a Chord Mojo and a Xduoo Xd05 Bal so i think power is not a problem also for 150ohm driver.


----------



## feverfive

Can anyone recommend a source for red and blue foams?  Are all foams basically of the same quality?


----------



## BotByte

feverfive said:


> Can anyone recommend a source for red and blue foams?  Are all foams basically of the same quality?


Aliexpress Trig Rain, or NSC. Trig Rain has donuts too. VE has some, but they're quite expensive for what you get--combo of thicknesses tho.

Foams differ quite a lot. HeiGi are the thickest, Trig next, NSC cheapies next/similar. Then donuts too. Thicker = more bass, less treble, at the trade-off of making the earphone bigger (if that's a concern). Personally, I prefer donuts for comfort with my ears, but I prefer brighter earphones that can be quite sharp without full-donuts (probably mod them).


----------



## re23071998

furyossa said:


> _A brief retrospective: TinGo TG-38s_​In this post, I will try to explain why TG-38s is still the one of the favorite pair of buds after almost 2 year of use.
> The specifications
> 
> Impedance: 16Ω
> ...


mine just arrived, love it so much.
good find


----------



## earmonger (Nov 1, 2021)

waynes world said:


> That's my plan as well. I see that at NiceHCK they will be $47.64 US on 11/11, which is approx $57 CAD. That's in my "for that price, they better be pretty darn good" category. But I am sure that they will be!


Could someone post a link? Searching Ali for LBBS is a mug's game.


----------



## emusic13

earmonger said:


> Could someone post a link? Searching Ali for LBBS is a mug's game.



Type ksearphone and you can choose from the sellers. It seems the price went up


----------



## lanister

Can you recommend for me some best rate earbuds from 50 to 100$. Thx in advance!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Dec 13, 2021)

lanister said:


> Can you recommend for me some best rate earbuds from 50 to 100$. Thx in advance!


At US $50-100 we would need more details to give you a good recommendation (*please see here for more*).
Two good starter earbuds available at the moment are:* Yincrow X6* and *Ksearphone Bell-LBBs (LBBS)* do not let the prices fool you these both punch well into the upper tier levels.


----------



## lanister (Nov 1, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> At US $50-100 we would need more details to give you a good recommendation (*please see here for more*).
> Two good starter earbuds available at the moment are:* Yincrow X6* and *Ksearphone Bell-LBBs (LBBS)* do not let the prices fool you these both punch well into the upper tier levels.


Thank u. How are they compare to Toneking Tomahawk?

I used to listen to metal, pop... Like queen, metallica, celion dion....and using m LgV30 phone.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

lanister said:


> Thank u. How are they compare to Toneking Tomahawk?
> 
> I used to listen to metal, pop... Like queen, metallica, celion dion....and using m LgV30 headphone.


The *2015 Toneking Tiankui MusicMaker MrZ Tomahawk Z (32Ω)* is a bit dated in comparison... earbud drivers really have come a long ways since then. The Tomahawk Z although great with vocals was only that... a very mid-centric focused earbud with an extremely forward signature plagued by a very laidback, rolled off treble and an anemic, rolled off bass. The shell design was also a bit odd which caused 'fit' issues for some people.


----------



## F700

WoodyLuvr said:


> At US $50-100 we would need more details to give you a good recommendation (*please see here for more*).
> Two good starter earbuds available at the moment are:* Yincrow X6* and *Ksearphone Bell-LBBs (LBBS)* do not let the prices fool you these both punch well into the upper tier levels.


Thanks for that. I ordered the Yincrow X6 two weeks ago and the Ksearphone Bell-LBs today. I also ordered a pair of TY Hi-Z HP400se. Not much experience with buds, apart from my Smabat ST10-S Gold, which I really enjoy. Nice to follow another path as I am set with earphones.


----------



## Scuba Devils

F700 said:


> Thanks for that. I ordered the Yincrow X6 two weeks ago and the Ksearphone Bell-LBs today. I also ordered a pair of TY Hi-Z HP400se. Not much experience with buds, apart from my Smabat ST10-S Gold, which I really enjoy. Nice to follow another path as I am set with earphones.



Good to see you here, look forward to sharing bud impressions! A new rabbit hole...


----------



## Philimon (Nov 1, 2021)

uneri said:


> The latest 2021 white no mic version is no longer cheaper than the LBBs now.
> 
> Due to the upgrades, the price of the white no mic version has also been increased, and it is now same price as the LBBs.
> This price increase has been reflected on most AE stores like NiceHCK, so they should be selling the latest version (always best to ask before ordering).
> ...



I received an email back (quick!):

_“Hi my friend the one we have is the LBB(Little Black bell) The one without a mic, with a Weave cable.”_

I replied back with the above photo to confirm but it sounds like he is describing the correct version. The other LBBs have a rubbery straight cable from what Ive seen.

edit: in regards to awedyo store


----------



## waynes world

earmonger said:


> Could someone post a link? Searching Ali for LBBS is a mug's game.



Here you go:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html


----------



## Philimon (Nov 1, 2021)

Philimon said:


> I received an email back (quick!):
> 
> _“Hi my friend the one we have is the LBB(Little Black bell) The one without a mic, with a Weave cable.”_
> 
> ...



Awedyo Audio visually confirmed. Great deal! Just received USPS shipping notice. Very nice since its supposed to be originating from California. Fast! Buy here!


----------



## rkw

Philimon said:


> Awedyo Audio visually confirmed. Great deal! Just received USPS shipping notice. Very nice since its supposed to be originating from California. Fast! Buy here!


Ha, I ordered yesterday but Awedyo Audio told me just now that they sold out and I missed by a few minutes. You guys beat me to it!  They have more on order but it will be a big delay.


----------



## earmonger

rkw said:


> Ha, I ordered yesterday but Awedyo Audio told me just now that they sold out and I missed by a few minutes. You guys beat me to it!  They have more on order but it will be a big delay.


So the Bell-LBs is the same as the LBBS? You never know on Ali...


----------



## WoodyLuvr

earmonger said:


> So the Bell-LBs is the same as the LBBS? You never know on Ali...


Not always... indeed one has to be extremely careful/mindful as it could easily be a mislabeled/misidentified original Bell-LB in either black, white, or silver... or a Bell-LBS (Original Little Bell-Silver) which is sometimes written with a small "s"... or it could indeed be the newer Bell-LBBs (aka "New Little Black Bell S"). Bonkers we know!


----------



## uneri (Nov 2, 2021)

earmonger said:


> So the Bell-LBs is the same as the LBBS? You never know on Ali...



*How to correctly identify K's Earphone/Ksearphone LBBs on various Aliexpress stores:*

- BellLBs no mic (NiceHCK Audio Store)

- BellLBs Black no mic (KRHIFI Audio Store)

- BellLBs-no mic (VS Audio Store)

- Little Black Bell S (JieTu Audio Store, CKLewis Audio Store) - not recommended due to higher price


All the AE stores mentioned above uses the same stock photo for LBBs, so if you see the photo below in the color options, then it's the correct one.


Spoiler


----------



## rkw

The most confusing thing is that people on Head-Fi call it "LBBs", but NONE of the vendors use that name!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

rkw said:


> The most confusing thing is that people on Head-Fi call it "LBBs", but NONE of the vendors use that name!


That is partly due to Ksearphone whom is notorious for their very confusing model naming practices and frequent model name expansions, changes, corrections, etc.


----------



## Scuba Devils (Nov 2, 2021)

X6 arrived today - what a fun, pleasant, engaging set of buds, incredible value!


----------



## Xinlisupreme

WoodyLuvr said:


> That is partly due to Ksearphone whom is notorious for their very confusing model naming practices and frequent model name expansions, changes, corrections, etc.





Where can I buy it?
Could be a right choice for fist buds?


----------



## SiggyFraud

Xinlisupreme said:


> Where can I buy it?
> Could be a right choice for fist buds?


Reputable sellers with links and buying instructions were mentioned numerous times already, even on the last few pages. Go back a little and/or use the "search" tool and you'll find everything you need.


----------



## Billyak

Scuba Devils said:


> X6 arrived today - what a fun, pleasant, engaging set of buds, incredible value!


Mine arrived today too!

I have not listened to a pair of ear buds for years and I am quite impressed with them. Nice full sound, lacking a bit of sub bass but I have spoiled with IEMs so I am not concerned. Very fun and easy to listen to tuning.


----------



## Rick1982

Scuba Devils said:


> X6 arrived today - what a fun, pleasant, engaging set of buds, incredible value!


Please report how they sound vs your other buds, mine will arrives soon!


----------



## gazzington

Scuba Devils said:


> X6 arrived today - what a fun, pleasant, engaging set of buds, incredible value!


For price to value there probably isn’ta better purchase in audio. I’m thinking of getting some more in case they do making them


----------



## feverfive

I've had my X6 for only a few days, but have enjoyed them as well.  I don't use them for music listening, other than music that might be part of a video or tv show/movie I watch.  I assumed I'd want to immediately jump into higher tier buds, but the advice upthread of simply buying more X6's as backups might make more sense for my use case.

I dunno...I'd like something with more "substantial" build quality (such as the RW-2000) and detachable cable, but I think I've decided that buying impulse can be delayed.  I won't feel rushed to save a few dollars on 11/11, at least.  I am curious to see how the Smabat M3 are received by ear bud aficionados when they are released.


----------



## F700 (Nov 2, 2021)

As I feared (just a bit), the rope used to carefully descend into this new rabbit hole quickly broke and I am now starting to enjoy free fall.

Took the Smabat ST10s Gold out tonight. If earbuds don’t have to be expensive to sound great or even better than that, this also applies to portable electronic devices (to a lesser extent
maybe). The xDuoo X-10T II and the L&P W2 are the right companions so far, the xDuoo offering a PEQ, which works very well and the L&P W2 growing on me since a few months now. Enough power available to drive the 150ohm Smabat. Recommended source and dac/amp.


----------



## axhng (Nov 2, 2021)

Just noticed one of the sellers on Shopee SG has listed a new option "White-S" which I'm guessing is the newer white version that has been upgraded to the same driver and tuning as the LBBs? Not sure how the cable will be like though and whether it will be like the LBBs with a nylon weave cable for the bottom half of the cable. But anyway, I haven't really felt the desire to buy more earbuds in a while now since I'm still enjoying the LBBs so much. Get to save some money during 11.11 I guess, but kinda intrigued about the new smabat earbuds though. The M2s Pro was really competent, and the smabat Proto 1.0 is one of my favourite pair of IEMs that I currently own.


----------



## Xinlisupreme

Does White cable version sound better?


----------



## Xinlisupreme

RW777 mk2 still a good choice or LBBS sounds better?


----------



## earmonger

rkw said:


> The most confusing thing is that people on Head-Fi call it "LBBs", but NONE of the vendors use that name!



This.  Using search is easy (and doesn't involve further back-and-forth) but not when everybody's talking about some abbreviation you can't find. I've probably been guilty of it myself on Head-Fi, but lately I always try to mention full brand-name and model name/number for SEO, or even a link.  Greatly appreciate uneri's Ksearphone list and links. 

uneri:
*How to correctly identify LBBs on various Aliexpress stores:*

- BellLBs no mic (NiceHCK Audio Store)

- BellLBs Black no mic (KRHIFI Audio Store)

- BellLBs-no mic (VS Audio Store)


----------



## tgx78

X6 measured. RW-9 and LBBs up next.


----------



## dissociativity

To anyone that has heard a Rose Masya, would you recommend one save for the discounted Rose Maria 1?
Also, what other 2 pin 0.78mm earbuds exist?

In other news, I've ordered this DIY Earbud, a Tingoo TC200 clone but with a really short MX500 DIY shell, along with the much hyped Jcally EP05, I can't say I've been impressed by standard wired Jcally models I've bought in the past, but if this is as nice as people are talking about in the dedicated thread, I'm excited.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003276256287.html
Impressions to come when it arrives.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

dissociativity said:


> To anyone that has heard a Rose Masya, would you recommend one save for the discounted Rose Maria 1?
> Also, what other 2 pin 0.78mm earbuds exist?
> 
> In other news, I've ordered this DIY Earbud, a Tingoo TC200 clone but with a really short MX500 DIY shell, along with the much hyped Jcally EP05, I can't say I've been impressed by standard wired Jcally models I've bought in the past, but if this is as nice as people are talking about in the dedicated thread, I'm excited.
> ...


Holy insensitivity Batman!




1Vrms drives them to 110 dB SPL and 2Vrms will bring them to ~116 dB SPL


----------



## chavez

Same earbud different store different specs.

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mrpjeDc


----------



## RikudouGoku

tgx78 said:


> X6 measured. RW-9 and LBBs up next.


I gotta learn how to do that....

Would be pretty damn nice, since I do have 34 buds. (and I am also getting the Astrotec Lyra Nature Limited Edition.)


----------



## Xinlisupreme

RikudouGoku said:


> Astrotec Lyra Nature Limited Edition


looks gorgeous https://astrotecglobal.com/products/lyra-nature-limited-edition
Should be a treblehead buds?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Xinlisupreme said:


> looks gorgeous https://astrotecglobal.com/products/lyra-nature-limited-edition
> Should be a treblehead buds?


No clue, there is a review on it here. But I got nothing from it. Maybe a Chaconne beater who knows, it certainly seems like it has a better fit and has an mmcx connector so hopefully it sounds damn good at that price.


----------



## Xinlisupreme

@RikudouGoku i'm sure you read headfonics review, looks like it needs a lot of juice to shine, but comparison with EM5 is interesting and i consider back it as @Scuba Devils suggested me.
https://headfonics.com/astrotec-lyra-nature-limited-edition-review/2/
Anyway i think my fisrt buds will be LBBS, should be a good start


----------



## RikudouGoku

Xinlisupreme said:


> @RikudouGoku i'm sure you read headfonics review, looks like it needs a lot of juice to shine, but comparison with EM5 is interesting and i consider back it as @Scuba Devils suggested me.
> https://headfonics.com/astrotec-lyra-nature-limited-edition-review/2/
> Anyway i think my fisrt buds will be LBBS, should be a good start


headphonics = zero trust.

LBBS is a damn good bud. Good pick.


----------



## Xinlisupreme

tgx78 said:


> X6 measured. RW-9 and LBBs up next.


@tgx78 you catched all buds i was lookig 
I think i'll buy LBBS at first but RW9 and RW777 MKII looks also interesting.

I red @RikudouGoku RW2000 review and Yincrow TOTL doesn't look neutral... RW1000?


----------



## Xinlisupreme

RikudouGoku said:


> headphonics = zero trust.
> 
> LBBS is a damn good bud. Good pick.


Also Blue Bell looks fine...
https://it.aliexpress.com/item/1005001469262757.html


----------



## RikudouGoku

Xinlisupreme said:


> I red @RikudouGoku RW2000 review and Yincrow TOTL doesn't look neutral... RW1000?


Yincrow RW-2000 is bass-boosted neutral, with a mid-bass focus. No clue about the RW-1000, but the RW-2000 is the successor.



Xinlisupreme said:


> Also Blue Bell looks fine...


Start with the LBBS.


----------



## Xinlisupreme

jogawag said:


> Little Black Bell S (LBBS)
> ================
> 
> Tags: aggressive value for money, sound architecture like Onmyoji, material savings and must be Onmyoji, personal quantification could have 70% of Onmyoji's power. The density and control of the vocals are not as good, but the size summary is much more playful than the price range. They feel good to wear and are not too expensive, making them good value for money, whether you are listening to them yourself or giving them as a gift to a loved one.
> ...


Very Very Helpful, thanks! Onmyoji looks like what i'm looking for


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Nov 3, 2021)

Xinlisupreme said:


> looks gorgeous https://astrotecglobal.com/products/lyra-nature-limited-edition
> Should be a treblehead buds?





RikudouGoku said:


> No clue, there is a review on it here. But I got nothing from it. Maybe a Chaconne beater who knows, it certainly seems like it has a better fit and has an mmcx connector so hopefully it sounds damn good at that price.


I compared the *Astrotec Lyra Nature LE *to my *FiiO EM5* before I gave it to my niece... they are very, very similar. The *Lyra Nature LE*'s primary signature is best described as being "_bright-clinical_" with a prominent _forward_ secondary characteristic and sometimes appearing_ sibilant_ and _aggressive_ tertiary signatures. The only major difference is that the *FiiO EM5* has much more prominent and deeper _bass_... yes, I found the *Lyra Nature LE* to be _bass-light _in comparison but it has slightly better _resolution-clarity_ than the *FiiO EM5*.

*EDIT: *Oh, by the way the MMCX connector is nice to have but it is so loose that the earbud spins like crazy on it so it may effect 'fit' for some people.


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> I compared the *Astrotec Lyra Nature LE *to my *FiiO EM5* before I gave it to my niece... they are very, very similar. The *Lyra Nature LE*'s primary signature is best described as being "_bright-clinical_" with a prominent _forward_ secondary characteristic and sometimes appearing_ sibilant_ and _aggressive_ tertiary signatures. The only major difference is that the *FiiO EM5* has much more prominent and deeper _bass_... yes, I found the *Lyra Nature LE* to be _bass-light _in comparison but it has slightly better _resolution-clarity_ than the *FiiO EM5*.
> 
> ​


Sounds like its in the Chaconne territory then?


----------



## Xinlisupreme

RikudouGoku said:


> Yincrow RW-2000 is bass-boosted neutral, with a mid-bass focus. No clue about the RW-1000, but the RW-2000 is the successor.
> 
> 
> Start with the LBBS.


I follow your suggest starting with LBBS but RW2000 and Astrotec Lyra nature LE are in my mind…
Waiting for your comparison.
I’ll get TRI TK2 (1250mW) soon should be enough to drive all buds mentioned 😋


----------



## RikudouGoku

Xinlisupreme said:


> I follow your suggest starting with LBBS but RW2000 and Astrotec Lyra nature LE are in my mind…
> Waiting for your comparison.


Probably be in time for christmas sale.   



Xinlisupreme said:


> I’ll get TRI TK2 (1250mW) soon should be enough to drive all buds mentioned 😋


That is more than enough, I think even 500mw is overkill for buds. (high impedance buds needs voltage rather than current, so thats the wrong spec to look at for those.)


----------



## Xinlisupreme

WoodyLuvr said:


> I compared the *Astrotec Lyra Nature LE *to my *FiiO EM5* before I gave it to my niece... they are very, very similar. The *Lyra Nature LE*'s primary signature is best described as being "_bright-clinical_" with a prominent _forward_ secondary characteristic and sometimes appearing_ sibilant_ and _aggressive_ tertiary signatures. The only major difference is that the *FiiO EM5* has much more prominent and deeper _bass_... yes, I found the *Lyra Nature LE* to be _bass-light _in comparison but it has slightly better _resolution-clarity_ than the *FiiO EM5*.
> 
> *EDIT: *Oh, by the way the MMCX connector is nice to have but it is so loose that the earbud spins like crazy on it so it may effect 'fit' for some people.
> 
> ​


So EM5 come back to my wishlist😍


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Nov 3, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Sounds like its in the Chaconne territory then?


Yes, right smack between the Chaconne, Maria II, and EM5 though I think the Maria II or even the EM5 were better sounding to me but I think 'fit' was an issue with the Lyra Nature LE. I really want to try the Lyra Mini to see if that helps any as it is supposed to sound very similar (less forward and open though so it may be a wash).


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, right smack between the Chaconne, Maria II, and EM5 though I think the Maria II or even the EM5 were better sounding to me but I think 'fit' was an issue with the Lyra Nature LE. I really want to try the Lyra Mini to see if that helps any as it is supposed to sound very similar (less forward and open).


Isnt it using something similar to the RW-2000 shell? That is pretty good in terms of fit for me...


----------



## Xinlisupreme

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, right smack between the Chaconne, Maria II, and EM5 though I think the Maria II or even the EM5 were better sounding to me but I think 'fit' was an issue with the Lyra Nature LE. I really want to try the Lyra Mini to see if that helps any as it is supposed to sound very similar (less forward and open).


Rose Maria II has less bass than EM5?
Also Blur 266 MX150 retuned or 189 MX150 new line should be great…


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> Isnt it using something similar to the RW-2000 shell? That is pretty good in terms of fit for me...


Yes, very similar in both design and size as they both are using larger 15mm drivers.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Xinlisupreme said:


> Rose Maria II has less bass than EM5?


Yes.


Xinlisupreme said:


> Also Blur 266 MX150 retuned or 189 MX150 new line should be great…


Just so there is no confusion... the three (3) currently available lines are as follows:

*Blur 189 Hybrid MX/PK* (32/64/150/300Ω aPs; PK 150Ω; "189 Hybrid" cabling)
*Blur 266 MX aPs Retune II* (32/64/150/300Ω w/ Air Pocket Shell; 266v3 aka "266 Light Brown" cabling)
*Blur 266R MX/PK Reference* (MX 32/64/150/300Ω aPs; MX 400Ω non-aPs; PK 32Ω; 266v4 aka "266 Clear" cabling)


----------



## Xinlisupreme

So difficult to chose a Blur for a buds newbie as me😅😅😅


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Holy insensitivity Batman!
> 
> 
> 1Vrms drives them to 110 dB SPL and 2Vrms will bring them to ~116 dB SPL


Yup TC-200 has 32ohm/95dB and TG-38s 16ohm/95dB.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

furyossa said:


> Yup TC-200 has 32ohm/95dB and TG-38s 16ohm/95dB.


Bonkers! A 95dB/mW 16Ω driver!!! 1Vrms would only drive that 16Ω driver to 118dB SPL, incredible! Thank you for confirming and sharing that data. Much appreciated.


----------



## Xinlisupreme

I know EM5 has different price, but is far better than LBBS?
I like bass but I don’t like muddy sound that lack transparency and I like airy mid/highs but not thin/harsh.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Xinlisupreme said:


> I know EM5 has different price, but is far better than LBBS?
> I like bass but I don’t like muddy sound that lack transparency and I like airy mid/highs but not thin/harsh.


I honestly would prefer the Ks Bell-LBBs to the FiiO EM5 especially for longer listening sessions.


----------



## Xinlisupreme

LBBS bought... maybe i'll buy also EM5 or RW2000


----------



## Rick1982

Xinlisupreme said:


> LBBS bought... maybe i'll buy also EM5 or RW2000


Where did you bought it? I'm start to think my order will be never shipped out...


----------



## RikudouGoku

Well, what a fun discovery. Anyone wanna know what the true upgrade to the LBBS is?

Apparently, it is the Moondrop Chaconne….with the Hiegi full foams.

Extremely similar tonality, differs only in that the Chaconne has a smoother treble and some more upper-treble.


----------



## Xinlisupreme

RikudouGoku said:


> s only in that the Chaconne has a smoother treble and some more up


So EM5 isn't Better?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Xinlisupreme said:


> So EM5 isn't Better?


I dont have the EM5...


----------



## n00b

Xinlisupreme said:


> I know EM5 has different price, but is far better than LBBS?
> I like bass but I don’t like muddy sound that lack transparency and I like airy mid/highs but not thin/harsh.


i dont know why the em5 is getting so popular. it is like the polar opposite of lbbs and chaconne to me. em5 to me sounds congested, thunderous and muddy, like a dark nightclub. chaconne is like an open air orchestra on a warm summer day.


----------



## letlive

Is there a sound difference between the different LBBS versions (with and without mic)?


----------



## n00b

letlive said:


> Is there a sound difference between the different LBBS versions (with and without mic)?


this was answered not very long ago. i found this post by searching 'lbbs mic' in this thread

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3878#post-16618100


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Nov 3, 2021)

FiiO EM5 price is high because of the silver cable. But the driver itself doesn't cost that much money. If you like high-quality treble, this earbud is not for you. The treble quality is poor (middle level, no good/no bad). But FiiO EM5 has the deepest and most textured bass I've heard. The FiiO EM5 is not universal, more suitable for old rock, pop, disco, electronic music and etc. The middle is transparent, if you like a massive/fat middle, this earbud is not for you either. I recommend buying only at the lowest prices or used. A good option for the collection, I have never seen a similar sound. For me personally, I didn't like them so much that I would have left them as the main earbuds, but they are very suitable as mood earbuds for the old genres of rock, pop and electronic music. Recommend burn up for several hours for a week or more. This will help get rid of the bright sawing sound, everything will become smooth and not harsh.


----------



## n00b

Alex.Grimm said:


> If you like high-quality treble, this earbud is not for you. The treble quality is poor (middle level, no good/no bad). But FiiO EM5 has the deepest and most textured bass I've heard. The FiiO EM5 is not universal, more suitable for old rock, pop, disco, electronic music and etc.


thank you, this is a reasonable take and aligns with my impressions of the buds too. combined with the poor fit and price, i cant recommend it when more balanced and cheaper options like m2s pro and yincrow x6 exist for those looking for bass quantity. like you mentioned, the fiio em5 has a unique bass characteristic to it that i havent heard elsewhere. in a similar vein, chaconne has a unique treble presentation. and for both, you kind of need to hear them for yourself to decide if it's worth it.

when it comes to safe recommendations for most people (after having heard all 4 of these buds), i would say if you are looking at the fiio em5, consider the smabat m2s pro. if you are looking at the moondrop chaconne, consider the k's lbbs. but if youve heard both of those cheaper options and are curious about what could be, and have the money, then sure, splurge on the em5 or chaconne, but keep your expectations low if you can, and dont let the high pricetags bias your judgment.


----------



## gazzington

My fiio em5 arrived today and I’m giving them a listen through a shanling m8. Sounds really nice so far. Very relaxed listen


----------



## Rick1982

But… there are 2 Moondrop Chaconne versions? Gen 1 and Gen 2?


----------



## n00b (Nov 3, 2021)

no. if you saw 'generation 2' on an amazon listing it is referring to the chaconne being the replacement to the moondrop liebesleid.

edit: if you search this thread for "chaconne gen 2" you will see this post, which explains: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3441#post-16113714

people please search the thread first.. it is already a fantastic resource and a wealth of knowledge


----------



## Scuba Devils

EM5 as I've shared already are my current top choice of buds - they are fantastic for electronic music, especially ambient. As with any earphone buds or otherwise, YMMV - they might be awful if metal for example is your thing! 

In other news, my Penon BS1 has landed in Ireland as per the tracking and pending delivery once I've paid customs but I haven't received customs payment info from my local postal service yet 😟 Painful to think they are now in Ireland but a final hoop to jump through...


----------



## gazzington

Scuba Devils said:


> EM5 as I've shared already are my current top choice of buds - they are fantastic for electronic music, especially ambient. As with any earphone buds or otherwise, YMMV - they might be awful if metal for example is your thing!
> 
> In other news, my Penon BS1 has landed in Ireland as per the tracking and pending delivery once I've paid customs but I haven't received customs payment info from my local postal service yet 😟 Painful to think they are now in Ireland but a final hoop to jump through...


The em5 are amazing for electronic music and ambient. They might be a bit too relaxed for metal. Prob good for ambient black metal though


----------



## Scuba Devils

gazzington said:


> The em5 are amazing for electronic music and ambient. They might be a bit too relaxed for metal. Prob good for ambient black metal though



Glad you are enjoying them too. Still pretty much my nightly choice for ambient before I hit the hay!


----------



## gazzington

Scuba Devils said:


> Glad you are enjoying them too. Still pretty much my nightly choice for ambient before I hit the hay!


I’m totally blown away by earbuds. Compared to iems they are bargains.
What ambient albums would you recommend at the moment?
I’ve been listening to abul mogard


----------



## Scuba Devils

gazzington said:


> I’m totally blown away by earbuds. Compared to iems they are bargains.
> What ambient albums would you recommend at the moment?
> I’ve been listening to abul mogard



I could list so many but one I just recently revisited is the following, beautiful album.


----------



## gazzington

Scuba Devils said:


> I could list so many but one I just recently revisited is the following, beautiful album.



Cool, I’ll take a listen to that tomorrow on the em5 
Thanks


----------



## mochill

Got both newbsound 32pro and pk , listening to 32pro and can agree it being best earbud bar none 🤯.


----------



## emusic13

mochill said:


> Got both newbsound 32pro and pk , listening to 32pro and can agree it being best earbud bar none 🤯.


I agree. Its so good. Took lots of money to find that sound


----------



## gazzington

mochill said:


> Got both newbsound 32pro and pk , listening to 32pro and can agree it being best earbud bar none 🤯.


I think I need to get some of these


----------



## Scuba Devils

emusic13 said:


> I agree. Its so good. Took lots of money to find that sound



Mine in transit, really look forward to hearing them.


----------



## gazzington

Scuba Devils said:


> Mine in transit, really look forward to hearing them.


How much are they?


----------



## Scuba Devils

gazzington said:


> How much are they?



I went for 4.4mm which were $80 + $16 for shipping.


----------



## gazzington

Scuba Devils said:


> I went for 4.4mm which were $80 + $16 for shipping.


Cool I’ll contact him on Facebook. I’m going to get a set


----------



## mochill

emusic13 said:


> I agree. Its so good. Took lots of money to find that sound


Yes it did 😂


----------



## n00b

How would you describe what makes Newbsound 32pro sound as good as it does? I'd love to hear more detailed impressions if you feel like sharing.


----------



## Shenzai

Got my Newbsound 32Pro today, so far I don't think they're worth the price difference over my Yincrow X6.


----------



## calcatreppola

Xinlisupreme said:


> So difficult to chose a Blur for a buds newbie as me😅😅😅


you can buy them all... 

by the way, if you are not joking, Mr Wong can help you. From your collection of IEMs I guess you have an idea of what sound you are looking for
.


----------



## emusic13

Shenzai said:


> Got my Newbsound 32Pro today, so far I don't think they're worth the price difference over my Yincrow X6.


What are you listening to? Any other bud comparisons?


----------



## Shenzai

emusic13 said:


> What are you listening to? Any other bud comparisons?


Gave my impressions in Riku's server, if you're in there. Listened to "POWER" by Kanye West, "Circles" by Mac Miller, "All Girls Are The Same" by Juice Wrld, "The Heart of Davy Jones" by Hans Zimmer. This is definitely a warm bud. Soundstage is typical of buds, which is to say wide for what it is. Imaging and separation seems fairly good, though on "Circles" the bass and Mac's vocals aren't as separated as I'd like. On "POWER" you can clearly hear the thumps in the beginning of the sound. Bass clearly thumps on "All Girls Are The Same, and has decent impact. This isn't a particularly detailed bud, as I can't hear the music box chime at 0:12 on "The Heart Of Davy Jones". Overall package is fine, but for $75 it might be hefty for what it is. Oh, and the cable is kinda sproingy, and keeps the curliness even after I tried to straighten the cable out.


----------



## Shenzai

Shenzai said:


> Gave my impressions in Riku's server, if you're in there. Listened to "POWER" by Kanye West, "Circles" by Mac Miller, "All Girls Are The Same" by Juice Wrld, "The Heart of Davy Jones" by Hans Zimmer. This is definitely a warm bud. Soundstage is typical of buds, which is to say wide for what it is. Imaging and separation seems fairly good, though on "Circles" the bass and Mac's vocals aren't as separated as I'd like. On "POWER" you can clearly hear the thumps in the beginning of the sound. Bass clearly thumps on "All Girls Are The Same, and has decent impact. This isn't a particularly detailed bud, as I can't hear the music box chime at 0:12 on "The Heart Of Davy Jones". Overall package is fine, but for $75 it might be hefty for what it is. Oh, and the cable is kinda sproingy, and keeps the curliness even after I tried to straighten the cable out.


Oh, and for comparison I do have the Yincrow X6, as I mentioned above. For price to performance, the X6 beats the 32Pro easily. In sound, there is obviously a difference, but big enough to warrant the price gap? Not really imo. For reference I used them both with stock full foams and on the Qudelix 5k single-ended


----------



## irv003

Shenzai said:


> Gave my impressions in Riku's server, if you're in there. Listened to "POWER" by Kanye West, "Circles" by Mac Miller, "All Girls Are The Same" by Juice Wrld, "The Heart of Davy Jones" by Hans Zimmer. This is definitely a warm bud. Soundstage is typical of buds, which is to say wide for what it is. Imaging and separation seems fairly good, though on "Circles" the bass and Mac's vocals aren't as separated as I'd like. On "POWER" you can clearly hear the thumps in the beginning of the sound. Bass clearly thumps on "All Girls Are The Same, and has decent impact. This isn't a particularly detailed bud, as I can't hear the music box chime at 0:12 on "The Heart Of Davy Jones". Overall package is fine, but for $75 it might be hefty for what it is. Oh, and the cable is kinda sproingy, and keeps the curliness even after I tried to straighten the cable out.


if you dont like how it sound i can refund you. no problem with me. all good bro.


----------



## rprodrigues (Nov 3, 2021)

@Shenzai

Thank you for sharing. 

What other buds do you have? 
Do you have any set that is close to your 32Pro soundwise?


----------



## Shenzai

irv003 said:


> if you dont like how it sound i can refund you. no problem with me. all good bro.


If you're fine with that, then I'd gladly take you up on the offer. I like what you're doing, it's just that the sound isn't quite to my liking unfortunately 

I hope to hear your future works, maybe they'll fit my preferences even better


----------



## irv003

Shenzai said:


> If you're fine with that, then I'd gladly take you up on the offer. I like what you're doing, it's just that the sound isn't quite to my liking unfortunately
> 
> I hope to hear your future works, maybe they'll fit my preferences even better


yeah no worries =) i know where i stand


----------



## mochill

n00b said:


> How would you describe what makes Newbsound 32pro sound as good as it does? I'd love to hear more detailed impressions if you feel like sharing.


Analogue sound, deep transparent reverb , full vocal that you feel , smooth treble never harsh, big soundstage


----------



## calcatreppola

may some of you can briefly describe the difference between Newbsound 32pro and K's LBBS. In many posts LBBS has been praised for its detail. If I correctly read it has very good vocals. Maybe not the same stoundstage presented by Mochill here for 32pro?
thank you


----------



## F700

irv003 said:


> yeah no worries =) i know where i stand


Looking at your signature I see that you own (or owned, idk) a pair of E5000. I love these for Electronics. Pretty controversial IEMs in the community, to say the least (which is a good thing to me actually). Anyway. Since you are posting, may I ask you how did you tune the 32pro to sound « right for potential customers » or based on your own preferences? Not a FB member myself, I might have missed informations about that. Thanks.


----------



## irv003

F700 said:


> Looking at your signature I see that you own (or owned, idk) a pair of E5000. I love these for Electronics. Pretty controversial IEMs in the community, to say the least (which is a good thing to me actually). Anyway. Since you are posting, may I ask you how did you tune the 32pro to sound « right for potential customers » or based on your own preferences? Not a FB member myself, I might have missed informations about that. Thanks.


hey there bro! we traded gears before, my final audio F3100 to your 2pin cable. remember it?=)

Newbsound 32pro is my personal preference signature, somewhat similar or closer to my signature gears here.


----------



## Xinlisupreme

emusic13 said:


> I agree. Its so good. Took lots of money to find that sound


Can you describe its sound and wich kind of music you listen ? Source?


----------



## F700

irv003 said:


> hey there bro! we traded gears before, my final audio F3100 to your 2pin cable. remember it?=)
> 
> Newbsound 32pro is my personal preference signature, somewhat similar or closer to my signature gears here.


Oh yes, it’s been a while 🤝! Thanks for bringing that to my memory. To be honest, I sold the F3100 almost right away after the purchase. I was not really my cup of tea. Great with vocals, though. The current owner, a fellow head-fier, still enjoys the set afaik. 

I will pm you tomorrow regarding the 32pro.


----------



## emusic13

Xinlisupreme said:


> Can you describe its sound and wich kind of music you listen ? Source?


I listen to various music, but mainly pop/ vocal focus. The Newb pro is the smoothest earbud I have heard and probably the best for vocals. I agree with Mochill on impressions too. Wide soundstage, easy to listen to. This is listening with either my Violectric Chronos or Luxury and Precision W2 on my computer.

Here's some of what Ive been listening to recently:


----------



## irv003

rprodrigues said:


> @Shenzai
> 
> Thank you for sharing.
> 
> ...


i am interested to know also


----------



## n00b

emusic13 said:


> I listen to various music, but mainly pop/ vocal focus. The Newb pro is the smoothest earbud I have heard and probably the best for vocals. I agree with Mochill on impressions too. Wide soundstage, easy to listen to. This is listening with either my Violectric Chronos or Luxury and Precision W2 on my computer.
> 
> Here's some of what Ive been listening to recently


I am a sucker for female vocalists and listen to a lot of the same kpop/k-indie/k-r&b artists as you here. Have either you or @mochill heard the K's LBBs? I think it's really strong for these genres. I'm now leaning towards picking up a pair of Newbsounds, but I'm wondering if it would make sense given I already have the X6 and LBBS. Would love something musical, bassy, a bit better resolving than the X6 in a MX500 shell.


----------



## Shenzai (Nov 3, 2021)

rprodrigues said:


> @Shenzai
> 
> Thank you for sharing.
> 
> ...


I have the Yincrow X6 with me. Soundwise, it's not too similar to the 32Pro. I find the 32Pro to be warmer/bassier. The bass is also thicker


----------



## emusic13 (Nov 3, 2021)

n00b said:


> I am a sucker for female vocalists and listen to a lot of the same kpop/k-indie/k-r&b artists as you here. Have either you or @mochill heard the K's LBBs? I think it's really strong for these genres. I'm now leaning towards picking up a pair of Newbsounds, but I'm wondering if it would make sense given I already have the X6 and LBBS. Would love something musical, bassy, a bit better resolving than the X6 in a MX500 shell.


You will love it then.  I have the LBBS and Bell Blue. LBBS will sound thin in the vocals compared to Newb Pro.  Heres more of what I listen to:


----------



## n00b

That's.. pretty convincing. I might pull the trigger on that recommendation alone with all the overlap in our libraries. I love the vocal presentation on the LBBS, and I think the "thinness" might be perceived to me as airiness and clarity. But I don't mind having an option for a warmer, smoother, fuller sound. I also wish the LBBS had a touch more bass. Thanks for your impressions and insight!


----------



## emusic13

n00b said:


> That's.. pretty convincing. I might pull the trigger on that recommendation alone with all the overlap in our libraries. I love the vocal presentation on the LBBS, and I think the "thinness" might be perceived to me as airiness and clarity. But I don't mind having an option for a warmer, smoother, fuller sound. I also wish the LBBS had a touch more bass. Thanks for your impressions and insight!


If you end up getting one and don't like it, I'll buy it off you as a backup.


----------



## baskingshark

Seems the upcoming smabat ST20 is a hybrid earbud with a BA!!

https://facebook.com/100026221293592/posts/890961141787921/

Something rather different from the usual single DD earbuds.


----------



## Chessnaudio

I listen to a lot of old cantorial recordings from 1920s and 1930s. What buds would accentuate the vocals and smooth the grainyness, harshness(?) of these old recordings? Mostly there is just an organ or piano on the background


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Chessnaudio said:


> I listen to a lot of old cantorial recordings from 1920s and 1930s. What buds would accentuate the vocals and smooth the grainyness, harshness(?) of these old recordings? Mostly there is just an organ or piano on the background


That is quite a loaded question... we would need more info to better serve you though please do note that this will be an extremely tough question to answer as generally transducers are not the correct tool for 'fixing' or 'cleaning up' old recordings that are poorly engineered and/or mastered.

When asking for a flathead-earbud recommendation the following data is extremely helpful:

_*source* (using a DAC/AMP/DAP/PC/smartphone/streamer; audio file type including bit & sample rate)_
_*preferred connection* (termination type e.g. 3.5SE/4.4TRRS/2.5mm; single-end vs balanced; mic/no mic)_
_*listening level & time* (volume, and for how long?)_
_*listening environment* (mobile/office desk/home desktop/listening room)_
_*preferred sound signature* (bright; flat/neutral; balanced/natural/smooth; dark/warm; extra bass/bassy; L/U/V-shaped)_
_*preferred genre* *1920s/1930s Cantorial Recordings; mostly organ & piano*_
_*preferred shell type* (depends on your ears and personal comfort; please see *here*)_
_*preferred brand* (applicable if asking for a specific model recommendation within a single brand family)_
_*price range *(probably the most important; what are you willing/looking to spend?)_
_*any special need, consideration, and/or request: **accentuate the vocals and smooth the graininess, harshness(?) of these old recordings*_


----------



## WoodyLuvr

baskingshark said:


> Seems the upcoming smabat ST20 is a hybrid earbud with a BA!!
> 
> https://facebook.com/100026221293592/posts/890961141787921/
> 
> Something rather different from the usual single DD earbuds.


Wow! Interesting indeed. Thanks for sharing that.


----------



## tgx78 (Nov 4, 2021)

Yincrow RW-9 vs X6

Still trying to get some consistency going with graphing earbuds. (20x harder than IEMS btw)

who has them both? does this measurement depicts what you heard in real life between the two?

5kHz peak is my resonance peak for the coupler. Pinna gain seems impossible to capture on earbuds.




This is a measurement supplied by Mr. Wong at Blur earbuds. I will grab a 4.4 -> 3.5 adapter and try to graph my OFC Blur MX64 STE to match his measurement somehow.


----------



## dissociativity

chavez said:


> Same earbud different store different specs.
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mrpjeDc


Grabbed this too, will let everyone know how they are when they arrive


----------



## Ymer Niros

Hello.
Does anyone know what these earbuds are?
They sound amazingly good.
Merci.


----------



## F700 (Nov 4, 2021)

Ymer Niros said:


> Hello.
> Does anyone know what these earbuds are?
> They sound amazingly good.
> Merci.


Looks like a Sony because of the Walkman logo on the shell, maybe a pair of Mdr-E804


----------



## emusic13

tgx78 said:


> Yincrow RW-9 vs X6
> 
> Still trying to get some consistency going with graphing earbuds. (20x harder than IEMS btw)
> 
> ...


Is what you're hearing different than what the graphs are supposed to show?


----------



## assassin10000

Ymer Niros said:


> Hello.
> Does anyone know what these earbuds are?
> They sound amazingly good.
> Merci.





F700 said:


> Looks like a Sony because of the Walkman logo on the shell, maybe a pair of Mdr-E804



It's a Sony.

Check the 3.5mm plug, Sony had embossed the model # on some of them iirc.


----------



## Ymer Niros

F700 said:


> Looks like a Sony because of the Walkman logo on the shell, maybe a pair of Mdr-E804


Thank you


----------



## Chessnaudio

WoodyLuvr said:


> That is quite a loaded question... we would need more info to better serve you though please do note that this will be an extremely tough question to answer as generally transducers are not the correct tool for 'fixing' or 'cleaning up' old recordings that are poorly engineered and/or mastered.
> 
> When asking for a flathead-earbud recommendation the following data is extremely helpful:
> 
> ...


I have the LBBS and Moondrop Liebesleid which overall are my preferred signature but may be a tad to revealing or harsh with bad recordings. I don't mind mixing it up to something more warm with a bit more bass. I don't play with eq or peq, and not looking too either.  My primary source is a Hiby R5. My tastes are eclectic and varied. Anywhere from metal, and classic rock to country,  pop and cantorial. I don't really listen to non English songs, i.e Japanese, Chinese pop etc. (I do not mean to offend anyone with these references, but am not sure how to better label them). I have found that a deep V, and major subbass is not for me ( Earfun Free Pro, El Jefe reviews describes them well). Thanks for all the help!


----------



## ian91

tgx78 said:


> Yincrow RW-9 vs X6
> 
> Still trying to get some consistency going with graphing earbuds. (20x harder than IEMS btw)
> 
> ...



I'm sure you're aware but the graph you've linked is for the 189 MX150, not the MX64 STE, but I'm sure it will help to a degree with calibration.

I believe the graph below is for my OFC MX64 STE specifically:


----------



## tgx78

ian91 said:


> I'm sure you're aware but the graph you've linked is for the 189 MX150, not the MX64 STE, but I'm sure it will help to a degree with calibration.
> 
> I believe the graph below is for my OFC MX64 STE specifically:





Yes I know. Here is mine measured by him.


----------



## ian91

tgx78 said:


> Yes I know. Here is mine measured by him.



Great 👌


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Nov 4, 2021)

Ymer Niros said:


> Hello.
> Does anyone know what these earbuds are?
> They sound amazingly good.
> Merci.





F700 said:


> Looks like a Sony because of the Walkman logo on the shell, maybe a pair of Mdr-E804





assassin10000 said:


> It's a Sony.
> 
> Check the 3.5mm plug, Sony had embossed the model # on some of them iirc.


Yes, those are *MDR-E804YLA* (16Ω; ~116-118dB/mW)... a Sony (Made in China) reissue of the MDR-E808 (16Ω; 108dB/mW) to replace the MDR-E808 and other low-value MDR-E800 series earbuds that were packaged with Sony mobile electronics requiring headsets for many years until supplies dried up. The MDR-E804YLA first debuted with the launching of the Sony NWZ Walkman series of devices in 2012 and were made in vast quantities until 2014. The "YLA" designation is a complete mystery (probably a Sony-China invention) as it fails to adhere to the previous MDR model identifying system used by Sony. More *here*.


----------



## chavez

dissociativity said:


> Grabbed this too, will let everyone know how they are when they arrive


I hope you got different colors coming since its the same bud , just an error in the listing hahah. Most of ali shops sell same stuff sometimes just with a different name so they hit most searches on the site.


----------



## Blanchot

Where do you guys buy the Newbsound 32Pro?


----------



## RikudouGoku

tgx78 said:


> Yincrow RW-9 vs X6
> 
> Still trying to get some consistency going with graphing earbuds. (20x harder than IEMS btw)
> 
> ...


Nope that is not what I heard. The RW-9 is the more V-shaped one, with more bass and treble to the X6.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Nov 4, 2021)

Blanchot said:


> Where do you guys buy the Newbsound 32Pro?


Check out this recent *post* and this other *post*.


----------



## Blanchot

I find it slightly annoying that you have to open a Facebook or Instagram account just to get in touch with some of these earbuds makers. I think I'll stick to those available at Ali.


----------



## Xinlisupreme

tgx78 said:


> This is a measurement supplied by Mr. Wong at Blur earbuds. I will grab a 4.4 -> 3.5 adapter and try to graph my OFC Blur MX64 STE to match his measurement somehow.



Speaking with Mr. Wong he suggested me 189 MX150ohm 4.4 gold that i ordered 
Work in progress for my first Blur


----------



## Ymer Niros

WoodyLuvr said:


> Oui, il s'agit du *MDR-E804YLA* ( *16Ω* ; ~116-118dB/mW)... une réédition Sony (Made in China) du MDR-E808 (16Ω; 108dB/mW) pour remplacer le MDR-E808 et autres bas- appréciez les écouteurs de la série MDR-E800 qui ont été emballés avec des appareils électroniques mobiles Sony nécessitant des casques pendant de nombreuses années jusqu'à ce que les stocks s'épuisent. Le MDR-E804YLA a fait ses débuts avec le lancement de la série d'appareils Sony NWZ Walkman en 2012 et a été fabriqué en grande quantité jusqu'en 2014. La désignation "YLA" est un mystère complet (probablement une invention de Sony-Chine) car elle n'adhère pas au précédent système d'identification de modèle MDR utilisé par Sony. Plus *ici* .
> 
> ​


Existe-t-il un équivalent récent qui sonne aussi bien, avec la même signature sonore ?
J'ai trouvé cette paire au fond d'un tiroir et ils ont battu tous les écouteurs que j'ai pu acheter sur Aliexpress


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Nov 4, 2021)

Ymer Niros said:


> Existe-t-il un équivalent récent qui sonne aussi bien, avec la même signature sonore ?
> J'ai trouvé cette paire au fond d'un tiroir et ils ont battu tous les écouteurs que j'ai pu acheter sur Aliexpress


Not trying to be a cheeky monkey here but if you indeed found the Sony MDR-E804YLA to be a good sounding earbud then there is nothing we could recommend to you that you would like. Honestly, this particular earbud is considered, hands down, one of the worst earbuds ever created by Sony and I have been listening to Sony earbuds since 1982 and their headphones since the 1970s. What earbuds ordered from Ali were you comparing them to? I am genuinely intrigued and a number of us here would certainly like to help you find a much better sounding pair of earbuds to enjoy your tunes with if you are willing to be open-minded and take some advice from us.

FYI - This is an English language based forum so most people do not read French so I answered you back in English.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Nov 4, 2021)

Blanchot said:


> I find it slightly annoying that you have to open a Facebook or Instagram account just to get in touch with some of these earbuds makers. I think I'll stick to those available at Ali.


DIYers, Modders, and Custom Builders are not businesses; they are hobbyists whom are kind enough to share their creations with us for the price of materials and their expertise and time.

Goodness me... what we find annoying are those people that are too lazy to use the search function (this subject has literally just been discussed in great length and most recently) but more so when a helpful answer is still kindly provided in light of they are not one bit thankful for it.

Is it me or does it seem like it is raining trolls as of late?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> Nope that is not what I heard. The RW-9 is the more V-shaped one, with more bass and treble to the X6.


Concur wholeheartedly!


----------



## Ymer Niros

WoodyLuvr said:


> Not trying to be a cheeky monkey here but if you indeed found the Sony MDR-E804YLA to be a good sounding earbud then there is nothing we could recommend to you that you would like. Honestly, this particular earbud is considered, hands down, one of the worst earbuds ever created by Sony and I have been listening to Sony earbuds since 1982 and their headphones since the 1970s. What earbuds ordered from Ali were you comparing them to? I am genuinely intrigued and a number of us here would certainly like to help you find a much better sounding pair of earbuds to enjoy your tunes with if you are willing to be open-minded and take some advice from us.
> 
> FYI - This is an English language based forum so most people do not read French so I answered you back in English.


i had monk, monk +, musicmaker tomahawk, TY HI-z 150, ohm, auglamour RX-1, seahf LD-3.0, musicmaker TP16, nicehck diy PK2, OUART ACG, faaeal snow-lotus and strangely this earbud sony sound better that all the other reunited.
i have urbafun YBF-ISS01, blon BL03, tripowin TC-01 and the sony sound as well as them. Mystery


----------



## DBaldock9

dissociativity said:


> To anyone that has heard a Rose Masya, would you recommend one save for the discounted Rose Maria 1?
> Also, what other 2 pin 0.78mm earbuds exist?
> 
> In other news, I've ordered this DIY Earbud, a Tingoo TC200 clone but with a really short MX500 DIY shell, along with the much hyped Jcally EP05, I can't say I've been impressed by standard wired Jcally models I've bought in the past, but if this is as nice as people are talking about in the dedicated thread, I'm excited.
> ...



I thought I remembered reading that the Rose earbuds used 0.75mm 2-Pin connectors. 
. 
The Venture Electronics ZOE & AOE both use 0.78mm 2-Pin connectors - but they are recessed ~1/8".


----------



## gazzington

Ibasso dx300 max with the fiio em5 is a simply lovely combo. Gives the em5 a bigger sound. Very impressed with this bud. Hope fiio make more


----------



## mochill

n00b said:


> I am a sucker for female vocalists and listen to a lot of the same kpop/k-indie/k-r&b artists as you here. Have either you or @mochill heard the K's LBBs? I think it's really strong for these genres. I'm now leaning towards picking up a pair of Newbsounds, but I'm wondering if it would make sense given I already have the X6 and LBBS. Would love something musical, bassy, a bit better resolving than the X6 in a MX500 shell.


I have lbbs , it's v shaped sound to me nothing like the sublime sounding newbsound 32pro. Vocal is going to 32pro bar none


----------



## n00b

I have the newbsound 32pro on the way, and will do some comparisons. I don’t consider the LBBS to be v-shaped, for example. So it seems a lot of us are having different opinions about some very popular buds haha. that’s just how the hobby goes, i guess. all subjective


----------



## Scuba Devils

gazzington said:


> Ibasso dx300 max with the fiio em5 is a simply lovely combo. Gives the em5 a bigger sound. Very impressed with this bud. Hope fiio make more



I've mostly had my EM5 paired with the 1A - I'm buying the n6ii-Ti later this month and look forward to hearing how R2R is with EM5 and other buds. And actually, Bisoy mentioned to me on Insta that the 32pro came about due to the sound of the R01.


----------



## gazzington

Scuba Devils said:


> I've mostly had my EM5 paired with the 1A - I'm buying the n6ii-Ti later this month and look forward to hearing how R2R is with EM5 and other buds. And actually, Bisoy mentioned to me on Insta that the 32pro came about due to the sound of the R01.


I’m a bit of a Sony fan. Wm1a, wm1z, zx300!  I must admit I’m thinking of getting the r01 module too or the hiby rs6. I caved in and ordered a 32 pro too. These earbuds are addictive!


----------



## mochill

n00b said:


> I have the newbsound 32pro on the way, and will do some comparisons. I don’t consider the LBBS to be v-shaped, for example. So it seems a lot of us are having different opinions about some very popular buds haha. that’s just how the hobby goes, i guess. all subjective


Let me know


----------



## F700 (Nov 4, 2021)

Got the X6 this morning. Nostalgic feeling putting those in my ears. A feeling I did not get with the Smabat St10s last year, because getting a good fit is more challenging and this bud doesn’t have a, let’s say, standard form?

The donut foam works for me. The full foam is ok too, matter of preferences. Comfortable earbuds. I spent the whole day at work with the X6. My source is an iPhone SE2020 and the L&P W2 dongle. Tidal, BC and YT.

_First impressions _
It’s an USD 12.- pair of earbuds, so my non-existent expectations have been exceeded easily, eventhough…the X6 lacks bass texture and extension. Impact is meh. Vocals are well-rendered, good point here. Treble is strange, rolled-off and sometimes harsh at the same time. Detail retrieval is decent, separation almost inexistent. Listening to music with X6? No, probably not for me, but listening to documentaries, audio books or spoken-only content, yes! 3x times yes, actually. Listening to a reportage in the train going back home today, I was impressed about how the X6 was pleasing to my ears. I could recommend the X6 for this purpose. I am not discarding the X6, because even if I am not a disciple of the « burn-in church », I have noticed something going on with two pairs of my IEMs after a while. The X6 will continue to get the playtime they deserve in the coming weeks.

So, for the price, I like the look, the comfort, the thin yet solid cable and how vocals are rendered on the X6. I am not disappointed, but far from being thrilled either. The above-mentioned Smabat plays in a whole different category, which is something that can reasonably be understood. Some more buds coming my way later this month, impatient to continue my earbud journey.

_Nice color👍_


----------



## gazzington

Scuba Devils said:


> I've mostly had my EM5 paired with the 1A - I'm buying the n6ii-Ti later this month and look forward to hearing how R2R is with EM5 and other buds. And actually, Bisoy mentioned to me on Insta that the 32pro came about due to the sound of the R01.


Btw I listened to the album you recommended to me. Loved it 😀


----------



## Scuba Devils

gazzington said:


> I’m a bit of a Sony fan. Wm1a, wm1z, zx300!  I must admit I’m thinking of getting the r01 module too or the hiby rs6. I caved in and ordered a 32 pro too. These earbuds are addictive!



haha, another bud! How many is that now?!


----------



## gazzington

Scuba Devils said:


> haha, another bud! How many is that now?!


Erm I have a dap addiction 😂
I’m craving an r2r to use with all these earbuds!  
I was going to ask, I notice you have an ie900 and oriollus Isabelle. Which would you recommend out of them both?


----------



## Scuba Devils

gazzington said:


> Btw I listened to the album you recommended to me. Loved it 😀



Ah cool - huge amount more where that came from! Here's one more for now, don't want to derail the thread with music that mightn't be of interest to many! There is actually an ambient thread in the music section which I keep meaning to contribute more to.

This is wonderful on buds, lovely soundscapes.



Spoiler: Album


----------



## Scuba Devils

Oh and as @F700 has just posted in this THREAD, reminds me that's another great source for music of that variety!


----------



## gazzington

Scuba Devils said:


> Oh and as @F700 has just posted in this THREAD, reminds me that's another great source for music of that variety!


I’m definitely taking a look through that thread 😀


----------



## Scuba Devils

gazzington said:


> Erm I have a dap addiction 😂
> I’m craving an r2r to use with all these earbuds!
> I was going to ask, I notice you have an ie900 and oriollus Isabelle. Which would you recommend out of them both?



I love them both but prefer IE900 - bass and treble are absolutely spectacular, IE900 always brings a smile to my face when I plug them in and choose something lively such as THIS. 

Isa more mids focused and suited to vocals, acoustic and ambient etc - a much smoother IEM vs IE900. Traillii is my favourite IEM, it really is hard to beat for me but I would choose IE900 as a better all-rounder if I could only keep one.


----------



## digititus

Scuba Devils said:


> Oh and as @F700 has just posted in this THREAD, reminds me that's another great source for music of that variety!


Don't forget to also checkout the latest new/old school bangers on the Techno Thread


----------



## Scuba Devils

digititus said:


> Don't forget to also checkout the latest new/old school bangers on the Techno Thread



Yes a while since I've visited that thread, I must swing by again!


----------



## gazzington

Scuba Devils said:


> I love them both but prefer IE900 - bass and treble are absolutely spectacular, IE900 always brings a smile to my face when I plug them in and choose something lively such as THIS.
> 
> Isa more mids focused and suited to vocals, acoustic and ambient etc - a much smoother IEM vs IE900. Traillii is my favourite IEM, it really is hard to beat for me but I would choose IE900 as a better all-rounder if I could only keep one.


I think I may get the ie900 at some point 

Haha I’ve been listening to that lone album over the past few days. It’s really good. Love tree for tree track


----------



## Scuba Devils

gazzington said:


> I think I may get the ie900 at some point
> 
> Haha I’ve been listening to that lone album over the past few days. It’s really good. Love tree for tree track



Yeah it's great, quite an oldschool vibe to it. I've a few to revisit again before year-end when I consider my favourites from the year but in terms of more energetic electronic albums, these recent 3 will certainly be in the list - all stunning.



Spoiler: 3 x Albums


----------



## gazzington

Scuba Devils said:


> Yeah it's great, quite an oldschool vibe to it. I've a few to revisit again before year-end when I consider my favourites from the year but in terms of more energetic electronic albums, these recent 3 will certainly be in the list - all stunning.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 3 x Albums



Cool I’ll take a listen to these. Thanks 😀


----------



## teamdbatz




----------



## emusic13

teamdbatz said:


>



Wow those look like some nice buds   Old tunings should be great


----------



## shenshen

teamdbatz said:


>


These are all very nice, could I trouble you for some thoughts on each? Looks like Cypherus ZoomFred Pro, Blur Silver, and something I don't recognize by PWAudio?


----------



## emusic13

shenshen said:


> These are all very nice, could I trouble you for some thoughts on each? Looks like Cypherus ZoomFred Pro, Blur Silver, and something I don't recognize by PWAudio?


Teamdbatz got some nice buds. Thats a Miracle Diamond


----------



## irv003

wow! that looks familiar as i have auditioned that 2 buds. glad to see you here sir @teamdbatz!

miracle diamond & cax zoomfred pro


----------



## teamdbatz

emusic13 said:


> Wow those look like some nice buds   Old tunings should be great


thanks👍


----------



## teamdbatz (Nov 4, 2021)

irv003 said:


> wow! that looks familiar as i have auditioned that 2 buds. glad to see you here sir @teamdbatz!
> 
> miracle diamond & cax zoomfred pro


thanks boss Bisoy


shenshen said:


> These are all very nice, could I trouble you for some thoughts on each? Looks like Cypherus ZoomFred Pro, Blur Silver, and something I don't recognize by PWAudio?


im not good with impression. top left is miracle diamond very good for critical listening but no sibilance, top right is blur 150 coax silver, smooth and nice bass there is something about the metal silver shell that is hard to describe and lastly bottom is cax zoomfred pro analog and headphone like.


----------



## shenshen

teamdbatz said:


> thanks boss Bisoy
> 
> im not good with impression. top left is miracle diamond very good for critical listening but no sibilance, top right is blur 150 coax silver, smooth and nice bass there is something about the metal silver shell that is hard to describe and lastly bottom is cax zoomfred pro analogue and headphone like.


That works great, thank you for the quick impressions!


----------



## Philimon

Ksearphone Bell-LB-S initial impressions.:

Does not fit well. Feels like its barely set. Tried double foams which worked in making earbud feel secure, but also felt the seal was just way off and made bass sound  boomy and highs distant. So settled on trying with single donut foams but still was not right. Reminded me of an iem that just wont seal properly. I dont have enough experience with earbuds to explain why they are not fitting me well. I dont think Ive used an earbud with this shape before. Problem with size or stem location, i dunno.

So with poor fit: sounded midcentric and unremarkable.

Wife tried them and her first remark was “why are they shaped like this? They dont fit.”

The Yincrow X6 and Vido buds arent due for a couple more weeks.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Nov 5, 2021)

Philimon said:


> Ksearphone Bell-LB-S initial impressions.:
> 
> Does not fit well. Feels like its barely set. Tried double foams which worked in making earbud feel secure, but also felt the seal was just way off and made bass sound  boomy and highs distant. So settled on trying with single donut foams but still was not right. Reminded me of an iem that just wont seal properly. I dont have enough experience with earbuds to explain why they are not fitting me well. I dont think Ive used an earbud with this shape before. Problem with size or stem location, i dunno.
> 
> ...


Give them a few days to a week... you might just be surprised. User bias, based on experience and preference, is hard at play here. I remember experiencing the same thing when I first tried a bell. Now with that said some people's ear canals are rather large and the small bells can move around a lot in such cases.


----------



## Philimon

WoodyLuvr said:


> Give them a few days to a week... you might just be surprised. User bias, based on experience and preference, is hard at play here. I remember experiencing the same thing when I first tried a bell. Now with that said some people's ear canals are rather large and the small bells can move around a lot in such cases.


I definitely heard some detailed mids that werent grainy, so definitely heard potential. But the fit means these are not for me regardless of time burning in and/or getting accustomed.


----------



## snapandslide

gazzington said:


> Ibasso dx300 max with the fiio em5 is a simply lovely combo. Gives the em5 a bigger sound. Very impressed with this bud. Hope fiio make more



Hmm as a MAX owner, I feel I may have to try the em5.....


----------



## ian91

snapandslide said:


> Hmm as a MAX owner, I feel I may have to try the em5.....






(...down the earbud rabbit hole)


----------



## Scuba Devils

Penon BS1 Official landed finally... haven't listened yet but certainly an impressive unboxing experience, beautiful wooden box!


----------



## DBaldock9

Philimon said:


> I definitely heard some detailed mids that werent grainy, so definitely heard potential. But the fit means these are not for me regardless of time burning in and/or getting accustomed.



Depending on the cable, you may get a better fit by wearing the wires over the ear.


----------



## Scuba Devils

Ok getting a bit of time with the BS1 and I'm impressed, very impressed. Need to allow for honeymoon phase of course and work my way through more genres but they have a wonderful balanced sound with a fantastic airy soundstage. The premium packaging and accessories certainly do provide an exciting unboxing experience, I'm a big fan of nice packaging and accessories which shows care and attention to detail from the brand. The cable is relatively heavy but soft and zero microphonics. The shells are a fantastic fit, probably the best actually of any I've tried so far. 

Right now, these come in a very close second to EM5 in terms of initial overall wow factor... at a 3rd of the price. Beautiful design, premium build with an excellent selection of accessories. Delighted with this purchase! Thanks to @audio123 for the recommendation. 



Spoiler: Warning: Graphic Images Which may Harm Your Wallet 😄


----------



## feverfive

^^Nice....I have these on my short list for possible purchase.  Fixed cable makes me wary, but it just doesn't seem earbuds do the detachable cable thing very often.  Looking forward to sonic impressions, @Scuba Devils .  If you report bass response is good (for an earbud, at least), I might just jump.


----------



## Scuba Devils

feverfive said:


> ^^Nice....I have these on my short list for possible purchase.  Fixed cable makes me wary, but it just doesn't seem earbuds do the detachable cable thing very often.  Looking forward to sonic impressions, @Scuba Devils .  If you report bass response is good (for an earbud, at least), I might just jump.



Bass response is definitely good for buds - the excellent fit really helping there too. Nice sub and mid bass. My initial sense is these are possibly the most balanced buds I've tried so far. I'm actually not far from saying these are my favourite buds... but honeymoon and mileage varying etc! But I can say with absolute certainty, I effing love them with all initial test tracks.


----------



## feverfive

Scuba Devils said:


> Bass response is definitely good for buds - the excellent fit really helping there too. Nice sub and mid bass. My initial sense is these are possibly the most balanced buds I've tried so far. I'm actually not far from saying these are my favourite buds... but honeymoon and mileage varying etc! But I can say with absolute certainty, I effing love them with all initial test tracks.


Looks like I'll be ordering the 2.5 balanced version ...will need to get an adapter because I'm all-in on 4.4mm otherwise.  Took about a month to get to you in Ireland, right?  I've never ordered from Penon before, but it sure seems they are well-regarded.


----------



## Scuba Devils

feverfive said:


> Looks like I'll be ordering the 2.5 balanced version ...will need to get an adapter because I'm all-in on 4.4mm otherwise.  Took about a month to get to you in Ireland, right?  I've never ordered from Penon before, but it sure seems they are well-regarded.



Yeah mine is the 2.5 - I'm using the DDHifi adapter (below) which I bought on AliExpress a few months ago to have just in case! Though Penon do adapters also. Took just under a month, in part due to shipping restrictions from Hong Kong to Ireland, had to go to China first. I think if you message them you can pay a bit more for Express.


----------



## Rick1982

Scuba Devils said:


> Bass response is definitely good for buds - the excellent fit really helping there too. Nice sub and mid bass. My initial sense is these are possibly the most balanced buds I've tried so far. I'm actually not far from saying these are my favourite buds... but honeymoon and mileage varying etc! But I can say with absolute certainty, I effing love them with all initial test tracks.


BS1 vs your Blurs?


----------



## Philimon (Nov 5, 2021)

DBaldock9 said:


> Depending on the cable, you may get a better fit by wearing the wires over the ear.


This did help. I think the stem gets in way in the traditional position (ime). When they arrive I will experiment with those earbud silicone gaskets.

With wires-over-ear, the sound is much more natural like there is a proper fit. In this case, I would call the LBBS bass light, fast and detailed. Mid-centric. A little lifeless due to lack of warmth and energy downlow. Maybe this is an inherent earbud characteristic. Ill compare to X6 later.

I dont have a PEQ app to use with Apple Music on iphone. Is there such a thing?

Using Apple’s eq “bass booster” setting the bass rounds out but sounds one note-ish. Mids uneven, prominent upper mids. Junk simple eq, sorry. fwiw etc


----------



## Scuba Devils

Rick1982 said:


> BS1 vs your Blurs?



Need more time! Trying a variety of test genres at the moment on BS1, mixed results (mostly positive) after the initial success earlier. I plan to a/b over the weekend.


----------



## Philimon

_pics or it didnt happen_


----------



## irv003

Scuba Devils said:


> Bass response is definitely good for buds - the excellent fit really helping there too. Nice sub and mid bass. My initial sense is these are possibly the most balanced buds I've tried so far. I'm actually not far from saying these are my favourite buds... but honeymoon and mileage varying etc! But I can say with absolute certainty, I effing love them with all initial test tracks.


BS1 is definitely a nice balance-sounding buds. I tried them before in a 2018 earbuds meet.


----------



## Philimon

This may be heresy, but I do have an “earbud”: Samsung Galaxy Buds Live. Which does have bass extension. Soundstage is crummy since there is basically a seal (but no insertion like an iem). Resolution is meh but find it very convenient and comfy like an earbud. Comes with an app and anc. Recommend.


----------



## Philimon

Samsung Galaxy Buds Live
Actually my second pair. Like earbud and iem hybrid. Earbud (non-insertion), iem (isolation and bass). Looks a little like a hearing aid. Preferred the looks of my black pair but rose gold was on sale this time. Careful, lots of fakes out there. Buy from best buy or target location and have them price match.


----------



## Xinlisupreme




----------



## Xinlisupreme

LBBS is good for its price, a bit midcentric sound, lack bass to me even with M8 compared to my IEMs


----------



## ian91 (Nov 5, 2021)

Xinlisupreme said:


> LBBS is good for its price, a bit midcentric sound, lack bass to me even with M8 compared to my IEMs



Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on tastes) you wont get IEM bass quantity with buds by nature of their open design.


----------



## Xinlisupreme

Maybe not my way, I have similar approach with HS1677ss but I don’t miss bass at all, and headstage is incredible


----------



## irv003

ian91 said:


> Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on tastes) you wont get IEM bass quantity with buds by nature of their open design.


actually theres lots of them. i love basshead buds. heres some i can remember.

airman 180
airman 180 vented
phrakar 185
willsound mk1 litz
willsound mk1 VJC
blur chocolate
blur hybrid


----------



## emusic13 (Nov 5, 2021)

My Qlabs have some nice bass


----------



## BotByte

ian91 said:


> Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on tastes) you wont get IEM bass quantity with buds by nature of their open design.


Sub-bass, sure. Many buds can't keep up with IEMs tuned for sub-bass like FH3s or Teas. And many IEMs have far more bass based on design alone.

But, as someone who always needs their bass, even X6s are a bit much depending on genre and song. And even in the DIY community, some of the drivers I'm playing around with completely surprise me for how much bass they put out effortlessly--and this is before bass-enhancing mods, and we're not even talking about sub-bass famous drivers. 

All of this depends on the bud, ear fit, and whatnot--all the common issues with buds.


----------



## tgx78 (Nov 6, 2021)

*X6 vs lbbs*



Spoiler: tgx78 earbuds target









As @RikudouGoku mentioned, EQ little black bell's bass and you are good to go.


----------



## ian91 (Nov 6, 2021)

BotByte said:


> Sub-bass, sure. Many buds can't keep up with IEMs tuned for sub-bass like FH3s or Teas. And many IEMs have far more bass based on design alone.
> 
> But, as someone who always needs their bass, even X6s are a bit much depending on genre and song. And even in the DIY community, some of the drivers I'm playing around with completely surprise me for how much bass they put out effortlessly--and this is before bass-enhancing mods, and we're not even talking about sub-bass famous drivers.
> 
> All of this depends on the bud, ear fit, and whatnot--all the common issues with buds.



I should have been more specific. A sealed ear canal conveys midbass impact, and to a lesser degree subbass rumble, more resolutely than an open ear canal (in my experience). 

I fully appreciate there are basshead earbud models that are competitive and will out perform some IEMs but its a different presentation all together simply because there is no seal between transducer and ear drum.

I'll add that I enjoy how buds present bass, it sounds more natural to me.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

ian91 said:


> I should have been more specific. A sealed ear canal conveys midbass impact, and to a lesser degree subbass rumble, more resolutely than an open ear canal (in my experience).
> 
> I fully appreciate there are basshead earbud models that are competitive and will out perform some IEMs but its a different presentation all together simply because there is no seal between transducer and ear drum.
> 
> *I'll add that I enjoy how buds present bass, it sounds more natural to me.*


Concur, I'll take bass resolution over bass impact (slam/punch) any day!


----------



## audio123

Scuba Devils said:


> Ok getting a bit of time with the BS1 and I'm impressed, very impressed. Need to allow for honeymoon phase of course and work my way through more genres but they have a wonderful balanced sound with a fantastic airy soundstage. The premium packaging and accessories certainly do provide an exciting unboxing experience, I'm a big fan of nice packaging and accessories which shows care and attention to detail from the brand. The cable is relatively heavy but soft and zero microphonics. The shells are a fantastic fit, probably the best actually of any I've tried so far.
> 
> Right now, these come in a very close second to EM5 in terms of initial overall wow factor... at a 3rd of the price. Beautiful design, premium build with an excellent selection of accessories. Delighted with this purchase! Thanks to @audio123 for the recommendation.
> 
> ...


Only recommending good stuffs!


----------



## waynes world

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur, I'll take bass resolution over bass impact (slam/punch) any day!



Also concur, I'll take bass resolution over sore eardrums and tinnitus any day!


----------



## PROblemdetected

Hi fellas.

Just land here bcz I get the Sambat M2s. Im really surprised with openness and stage of the buds.
Surely this questions is already made but this post got aroun 4k 9 of pages... So...

Some tips to enhanced the fit on the ears? I tried the covers and it gets a little bit better, but I would like them to more fixed to my ears.

I see some silicone rings on aliexpress, feel free to recommend any product


----------



## Scuba Devils

Interesting to a/b BS1 with Blur 266 mx150 retune upon request from @Xinlisupreme using a selection of his chosen tracks, mostly vocals focused with mix of instruments and electronic in some cases.

BS1 did very well but Blur takes the prize for vocals presentation, especially female. Also more natural sounding and better overall timbre across instruments. BS1 felt slightly veiled when I switched, it leans warmer by comparison and impacts details as a result.


----------



## digititus

sakt1moko said:


> Hi fellas.
> 
> Just land here bcz I get the Sambat M2s. Im really surprised with openness and stage of the buds.
> Surely this questions is already made but this post got aroun 4k 9 of pages... So...
> ...


Wear them cable over the ears for most secure fit


----------



## Philimon

tgx78 said:


> *X6 vs lbbs*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Happy that my subjective impressions lined up. Ears still work then. 

PM me please to trade my LBBS for a warm signature and extended bass earbud like X6. TY!


----------



## BotByte

ian91 said:


> I'll add that I enjoy how buds present bass, it sounds more natural to me.


You bring up a good point here, and actually I'll say buds have a very musical bass that lends itself to the natural nature. 

They're kind of like super well-tuned bookshelf speakers. Many people sneer at bookshelf speakers because they feel they don't produce enough bass, but well-crafted bookshelfs can provide great bass in the right setting. Maybe not theater-standard 25hz sub-bass, but musical bass that lends itself to most music aside from the rare hip-hop track where the producer/mixer wanted 30hz rumble. 

Your post kinda reminded me too: Something about buds give me the feeling of bass impact--like true bass impact. IEMs have the sound of impact, but when buds rumble from their bass it provides a tactile impact. 

My sound preference is "arena" which is strong bass with a wider soundstage that still presents vocals well. It's hard to describe, and it's very rare with IEMs, but buds bring that.


----------



## Xinlisupreme

tgx78 said:


> *X6 vs lbbs*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your graph confirmed LBBS has only mids a a bit of midbass… curious to see a comparison with blur 189 mx150 

@ian91 266 mx150 retune is far different from 189 mx150?


----------



## ian91 (Nov 6, 2021)

BotByte said:


> You bring up a good point here, and actually I'll say buds have a very musical bass that lends itself to the natural nature.
> 
> They're kind of like super well-tuned bookshelf speakers. Many people sneer at bookshelf speakers because they feel they don't produce enough bass, but well-crafted bookshelfs can provide great bass in the right setting. Maybe not theater-standard 25hz sub-bass, but musical bass that lends itself to most music aside from the rare hip-hop track where the producer/mixer wanted 30hz rumble.
> 
> ...



Yeah! The bass frequencies feel/sound more 'open' and diffuse in earbuds while still conveying 'rumble' and 'impact' with good tactility. This all lends well to the 'arena' / 'live' / 'natural' character and I it feel gives a more realistic timbre to instruments.

However, I think IEMs reveal low frequency dynamics and subbass very well and often better. They seem to handle the graduated and rolling tones of electronic music with better accuracy. I guess it all comes down to the fact there's less energy dissipated and possibly less information lost to interference (?). Or, I could just be talking rubbish as I'm not a professional by any means! All I know is what I hear. I prefer earbuds for the music I listen to but I also see a place for IEMs in my life.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Just going to remind you guys that earbud graphs are not reliable due to how they work. I would take those graphs with a big grain of salt and mostly look at them for entertainment.


----------



## ian91

Xinlisupreme said:


> Your graph confirmed LBBS has only mids a a bit of midbass… curious to see a comparison with blur 189 mx150
> 
> @ian91 266 mx150 retune is far different from 189 mx150?



They are different yes. I prefer the 189 Hybrid MX150 tuning, it has more midbass to low mid body (and is warmer as a consequence) and has less peaky upper mids.


----------



## Scuba Devils

ian91 said:


> They are different yes. I prefer the 189 Hybrid MX150 tuning, it has more midbass to low mid body (and is warmer as a consequence) and has less peaky upper mids.



Might be what I need next. How would you compare to my 266 pk32? - or have you got that?


----------



## Xinlisupreme

ian91 said:


> They are different yes. I prefer the 189 Hybrid MX150 tuning, it has more midbass to low mid body (and is warmer as a consequence) and has less peaky upper mids.


And on Lower bass / sub bass?


----------



## ian91

Scuba Devils said:


> Might be what I need next. How would you compare to my 266 pk32? - or have you got that?



I never took the plunge on the 266 PK32 New Line unfortunately. A better comparison point is the MX150 Retune. On some tracks the MX150 Retune uppermid and treble can be too much for me. The 189 Hybrid MX150 aPs is a crowd pleaser I think. It works with most genres and has equal respect for male and female vocalists and it's backed up by the great technicalities of the MX150 driver that I'm sure you're familiar with.



Xinlisupreme said:


> And on Lower bass / sub bass?



Similar tuning in this region with some of the better subbass extension of the Blurs I've tried.


----------



## Philimon (Nov 6, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Just going to remind you guys that earbud graphs are not reliable due to how they work. I would take those graphs with a big grain of salt and mostly look at them for entertainment.


Totally. Many variables, not just in measurements but in subjectives as well.

In this case this measurement correlates with my experience. You said PEQ was necessary so we are not so different in impressions.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Philimon said:


> You said PEQ was necessary so we are not so different in impressions.


It is needed IF you want it to sound like the X6. The stock LBBS does NOT need PEQ unless you want to make it sound like something else.


----------



## Philimon

RikudouGoku said:


> It is needed IF you want it to sound like the X6. The stock LBBS does NOT need PEQ unless you want to make it sound like something else.


I could hear the LBBS very differently as I shifted them around during positioning. Just didnt line up for me. X6 sounds like its for me (from what ive read). Sooon


----------



## RikudouGoku

Philimon said:


> I could hear the LBBS very differently as I shifted them around during positioning. Just didnt line up for me. X6 sounds like its for me (from what ive read). Sooon


Use my PEQ preset then.


----------



## tgx78

Disclaimer: my earbuds graphs are for fun and experimental purpose only and not to be considered as absolute in terms of accuracy.

For every earbuds:

I took about 10 measurements each with full foam and averaged out, but looking at other variables such as how everyone’s ear anatomy is different, earbuds won’t be measured properly like IEMS do.


----------



## BotByte

ian91 said:


> Yeah! The bass frequencies feel/sound more 'open' and diffuse in earbuds while still conveying 'rumble' and 'impact' with good tactility. This all lends well to the 'arena' / 'live' / 'natural' character and I feel gives a more realistic timbre for instruments.
> 
> However, I think IEMs reveal low frequency dynamics and subbass very well and often better. They seem to handle the graduated and rolling tones of electronic music with better accuracy. I guess it all comes down to the fact there's less energy dissipated and possibly less information lost to interference (?). Or, I could just be talking rubbish as I'm not a professional by any means! All I know is what I hear. I prefer earbuds for the music I listen to but I also see a place for IEMs in my life.


For sure! IEM port sound directly into your ears and reproduce as they should. That's why I think audiophiles gravitate towards them more. But I've never felt like they "present" music as much as "direct" music. 

Sort of like the comparison between headphones and speakers. Headphones bring the sound to your ears, but can't replicate the particular dynamics of speakers. They might be more accurate, more detailed by design, but there's a difference in experience. IEMs just further that, but at the cost of losing some of the natural dynamics that our ears provide.


----------



## Philimon

tgx78 said:


> Disclaimer: my earbuds graphs are for fun and experimental purpose only and not to be considered as absolute in terms of accuracy.
> 
> For every earbuds:
> 
> I took about 10 measurements each with full foam and averaged out, but looking at other variables such as how everyone’s ear anatomy is different, earbuds won’t be measured properly like IEMS do.


Your paintings are unreal. Amazing

Do you have more details on your measurement rig?


----------



## Scuba Devils

ian91 said:


> I never took the plunge on the 266 PK32 New Line unfortunately. A better comparison point is the MX150 Retune. On some tracks the MX150 Retune uppermid and treble can be too much for me. The 189 Hybrid MX150 aPs is a crowd pleaser I think. It works with most genres and has equal respect for male and female vocalists and it's backed up by the great technicalities of the MX150 driver that I'm sure you're familiar with.
> 
> 
> 
> Similar tuning in this region with some of the better subbass extension of the Blurs I've tried.



Yeah it has been hit and miss for me with MX150, I should spend more time with it and take note of where it works... definitely harsh at times. I guess that is what often has me scurrying back to the safety of EM5 😁 I've not had enough time with pk32 either really.


----------



## tgx78 (Nov 6, 2021)

Philimon said:


> Your paintings are unreal. Amazing
> 
> Do you have more details on your measurement rig?


Thanks!

Measurement rig: Audiotools -> Iphone 6S 3.5mm out to IMM-6 mic -> vinyl coupler mimicking my ear canal which extends from the pinna to the eardrum at about 2.6 centimeters (1 in) in length and 0.7 centimeters (0.3 in) in diameter. -> Silicone Ear attached by super glue -> Earbuds with full foam playing Pink noise.






just measured JCally JC10. Blur up next..


----------



## tgx78 (Nov 6, 2021)

*BLUR vs RW-9*




Ok folks, that's it for now until I grab new earbuds.


----------



## assassin10000 (Nov 6, 2021)

tgx78 said:


> Disclaimer: my earbuds graphs are for fun and experimental purpose only and not to be considered as absolute in terms of accuracy.


^ This.



tgx78 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Measurement rig: Audiotools -> Iphone 6S 3.5mm out to IMM-6 mic -> vinyl coupler mimicking my ear canal which extends from the pinna to the eardrum at about 2.6 centimeters (1 in) in length and 0.7 centimeters (0.3 in) in diameter. -> Silicone Ear attached by super glue -> Earbuds with full foam playing Pink noise.


I went a little further and made a mold of my own ear and then made a vinyl coupler that mimicked the results of the mold, but holds earbuds themselves. It gives me more repeatable results.

I use rew, sweeps, imm-6 andy vinyl coupler.






In any case, earbud measurements for comparison purposes should only be compared to the ones produced by the same rig. IMO. There's just too much variance.

My original ST-10 and LBBS (w/mic) measurements:


----------



## Xinlisupreme

@tgx78 will you take blur 189 mx150 FR ?


----------



## emusic13

I heard quite a bit of peak with my Blur too. Could be the driver used in the models? 
Nevertheless, at least some people enjoy it. Everyone has different ears and experience


----------



## ian91

emusic13 said:


> I heard quite a bit of peak with my Blur too. Could be the driver used in the models?
> Nevertheless, at least some people enjoy it. Everyone has different ears and experience



If you had a MX150 driver with a peak I can understand why you moved on, it's a detailed and bright driver as it is and with a peak could be quite tiring. There is some slight peakiness to the MX150 Retune that I have that is no longer present with the 189 Hybrid MX150 (that's using the same driver), so I believe it to be largely down to tuning.


----------



## emusic13

ian91 said:


> If you had a MX150 driver with a peak I can understand why you moved on, it's a detailed and bright driver as it is and with a peak could be quite tiring. There is some slight peakiness to the MX150 Retune that I have that is no longer present with the 189 Hybrid MX150 (that's using the same driver), so I believe it to be largely down to tuning.


I actually meant to post after Tgx graph but got beaten to it with Xinlis post on 189 MX150 as I was drafting so it wasnt meant in response to that. Anyways, mine was supposed to be a warm sounding bud per Wong but turned out peaky. I guess Wong and I just don't have a sound preference that is linear. Do you have any earbuds not Blur to compare?


----------



## ian91 (Nov 6, 2021)

emusic13 said:


> I actually meant to post after Tgx graph but got beaten to it with Xinlis post on 189 MX150 as I was drafting so it wasnt meant in response to that. Anyways, mine was supposed to be a warm sounding bud per Wong but turned out peaky. I guess Wong and I just don't have a sound preference that is linear. Do you have any earbuds not Blur to compare?



That's unfortunate, I have several models from Wong I consider 'warm'. It's all a matter of perspective and what is warm to one man might not be warm to another. My experience with buds is limited but I like to think I have a solid handle on tonal properties from my history with IEMs of which I've been fortunate (unfortunate for my wallet) to hear many.


----------



## irv003

joining the hype!
thanks @KutuzovGambit


----------



## waynes world

Philimon said:


> Your paintings are unreal. Amazing
> 
> Do you have more details on your measurement rig?



Yes they are!



> He hikes and sketches on Vancouver Island



You're lucky! (from one island guy to another!)



tgx78 said:


> *BLUR vs RW-9*
> 
> 
> Ok folks, that's it for now until I grab new earbuds.



Seem rather similar! Given how much I like the RW-9's, I think I'd like the Blur's as well.


----------



## Kumonomukou

Anyone have takes on these supposed 'Tingo TC200 Pro'?

They look alright, and I was okay with original Tingo back in the day. I figured it could be a good deal if these sounded half decent.


----------



## Chessnaudio

@irv003 any chance you could make your buds in an LBBs shell?


----------



## n00b

WoodyLuvr said:


> Just received a PM from a Chinese audiophile and audio repairman who confirmed he had the same driver voice coil failure in the driver of his Bell-Ti 120Ω number 638. He also added that he had seen quite a number of other similar driver failures with the Bell-Ti models overall. He too was able to repair his driver, as well as a few of the others that have come across his repair table but he said it is an extremely difficult repair due to the size and design.


so.. my bell ti plus‘s left channel is starting to go, i think the cable is wiggling inside the stem as well. bummer. had it for only a few months. hoping the vendor on aliex can help me


----------



## rkw

n00b said:


> so.. my bell ti plus‘s left channel is starting to go, i think the cable is wiggling inside the stem as well. bummer. had it for only a few months. hoping the vendor on aliex can help me


Very disappointing for an expensive high-end bud! I hope you can get it resolved.


----------



## uneri (Nov 11, 2021)

‎


----------



## uneri (Nov 11, 2021)

*Yincrow's latest flagship, RW-3000 (16Ω, 113dB/mW)*
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003534695447.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003535186948.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003535270791.html























---


*Rose Technics upcoming flagship, Martini (32Ω, 102dB/mW)*
https://world.taobao.com/item/658705632336.htm - pre-order


*













*


----------



## digititus (Nov 7, 2021)

uneri said:


> *Yincrow's latest flagship, RW-3000 (16Ω, 113dB/mW)*
> https://world.taobao.com/item/659065040960.htm
> 
> 
> ...


I've been waiting for an updated RW-2000, which I have refused to consider due to the nasty green colour and the fact that the RW-1000 bass edition is such good value. Love the fit of this design, so the RW-3000 has my attention.

Listening to the RW-1000 bass as I type. Has great wide soundstage which I've yet to hear better in any bud so far.

Edit: Just seen the price. Almost $400. Will wait for others to test


----------



## irv003

Chessnaudio said:


> @irv003 any chance you could make your buds in an LBBs shell?


lets see if i can find this type of shell-build material then i can play and test it.


----------



## feverfive (Nov 7, 2021)

uneri said:


> *Yincrow's latest flagship, RW-3000 (16Ω, 113dB/mW)*
> https://world.taobao.com/item/659065040960.htm
> 
> 
> ...



Anyone care to hazard a guess as to how long it'll be before the RW-3000 will be available through sites like AE?

I just ordered a Penon BS1 Official before the weekend (hasn't even processed/been shipped yet), hahahaha.


----------



## mochill

Both looks interesting


----------



## WoodyLuvr

n00b said:


> so.. my bell ti plus‘s left channel is starting to go, i think the cable is wiggling inside the stem as well. bummer. had it for only a few months. hoping the vendor on aliex can help me


Very sorry to hear this... sucks monkey balls for sure!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 8, 2021)

DBaldock9 said:


> Depending on the cable, you may get a better fit by wearing the wires over the ear.


...or even better: stretching your ears and keep the iem cable danging like a ear-necklace (permanently) until you want to connect them to a pair of earphones.


----------



## vygas

uneri said:


> *Yincrow's latest flagship, RW-3000 (16Ω, 113dB/mW)*
> https://world.taobao.com/item/659065040960.htm
> 
> 
> ...


That Rose bud is gorgeous, can't wait to buy a pair once they go on Aliexpress


----------



## mochill

Looks like the new pd21 is totl sound especially 4 strand cable one


----------



## Philimon (Nov 8, 2021)

X6 vs Vido






Besides accessories and slightly nicer cable on Yincrow (appreciable difference) they look the same.


----------



## irv003

Philimon said:


> X6 vs Vido
> 
> 
> Besides accessories and slightly nicer cable on Yincrow (appreciable difference) they look the same.


and they are using the same driver


----------



## Philimon

irv003 said:


> and they are using the same driver


I tried X6 with donuts and was not fitting awesome. Sounded a little off. Next tried Vido with silicone gaskets + donuts. Awww yeah!

* graph by @tgx78


----------



## n00b

just received newbsound 32 pro and can confirm what @mochill and @emusic13 have said so far regarding its signature. fortunately, i enjoy this type of sound. i can also see why @Shenzai didnt enjoy them as much, but for the same reasons. it will come down to a matter of preference for sure. im going to take some time to rest my ears and do more formal comparisons to the most popular and recommended buds in here, the yincrow x6 and k’s lbbs.


----------



## mochill

n00b said:


> just received newbsound 32 pro and can confirm what @mochill and @emusic13 have said so far regarding its signature. fortunately, i enjoy this type of sound. i can also see why @Shenzai didnt enjoy them as much, but for the same reasons. it will come down to a matter of preference for sure. im going to take some time to rest my ears and do more formal comparisons to the most popular and recommended buds in here, the yincrow x6 and k’s lbbs.


Glad you trusted my impression ☺️


----------



## teamdbatz

Philimon said:


> X6 vs Vido
> 
> 
> Besides accessories and slightly nicer cable on Yincrow (appreciable difference) they look the same.


i love vido. i don't have the red variant. they are cheaper than the x6 and they sound very similar.


----------



## calcatreppola

mochill said:


> Looks like the new pd21 is totl sound especially 4 strand cable one


can you tell us more? quite cruel of you to say only this


----------



## jkjk123

I ended up getting a pair of the Newbsound 32 Pro after initially thinking that earbuds were not for me due to the lack of isolation.

I'm definitely enjoying them so far. I personally prefer a slightly warm signature and these are pretty close to my preference. These have a good balance across the frequency - I find them to be slightly warm, with good clear vocals, and extended treble without sibiliance.

The bass on these are quite good, with good texture (at least for earbuds) - from memory they sound on par with the bass on the 266 Blur MX150 which I tried also.

Doing a frequency sweep across, I hear a peak from 2 - 5 kHz (interestingly I also noticed this on the Blurs, except the peak there was even greater), and a dip from 5.5 kHz to 7 kHz. Bass extension is good as well, I can hear down below 20 hZ if I turn up the volume, though it obviously drops off sharply when it gets that low.

I have no opposition to using EQ since all of my listening with wired IEMs/earbuds is in front of the computer. So for my preference, I reduced both midbass and the 2-5 kHZ region and increase the sub bass, all by a few dBs.

The cable has a slight spring to it and is less supple than I prefer, but overall good build and pretty flexible, no issues with it so far (266 Blur were also not supple/flexible though very good build/thickness)


----------



## Scuba Devils

LBBS land today... 32pro tomorrow!

Anyone tried these? 

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mq62Q6i

Also, do any Smabat come with 4.4mm?


----------



## digititus

Scuba Devils said:


> LBBS land today... 32pro tomorrow!
> 
> Anyone tried these?
> 
> ...


Smabat ST10s gold is 3.5 mmcx, but I use with 2.5 balanced mmcx cable for more power delivery from my dongles. $10-$15 investment. The BGVP I have not seen any real positive reviews and it is rarely mentioned here, therefore draw your own conclusions.

The ST10s gold is very good IMO. Awesome (bud) bass. Powerfully sounding. Great with all electronic music.


----------



## Rick1982

Scuba Devils said:


> LBBS land today... 32pro tomorrow!


Very first impression?


----------



## Scuba Devils

digititus said:


> Smabat ST10s gold is 3.5 mmcx, but I use with 2.5 balanced mmcx cable for more power delivery from my dongles. $10-$15 investment. The BGVP I have not seen any real positive reviews and it is rarely mentioned here, therefore draw your own conclusions.
> 
> The ST10s gold is very good IMO. Awesome (bud) bass. Powerfully sounding. Great with all electronic music.



Oh yeah I forgot ST10s has a detachable cable. @F700 recommended that model to me months ago but I wasn't ready to take the plunge from IEMs to buds at the time! Cool, I reckon that's my next bud once the piggy bank is topped up.

Got it re BGVP.


----------



## Scuba Devils

Rick1982 said:


> Very first impression?



It hasn't arrived yet, should be here shortly though.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Scuba Devils said:


> Anyone tried these?
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mq62Q6i


The *2019 BGVP DX5 DLC (30Ω)* was very disappointing... *@furyossa*'s post just below sums it up perfectly:


furyossa said:


> *...Now for the buds we have BGVP DX5 which is total disaster (shell block driver vents)...*


----------



## Scuba Devils

WoodyLuvr said:


> The *2019 BGVP DX5 DLC (30Ω)* was very disappointing... *@furyossa*'s post just below sums it up perfectly:



Thanks, yes certainly rules that out!


----------



## Philimon (Nov 9, 2021)

Warning: subjective rant ahead.

Ive always disliked iems due to physical discomfort. Have always preferred earbuds if isolation is not a concern. However, I find earbuds not all that comfortable anymore. Koss Porta Pro and Samsung Galaxy Buds Live provide as good or better sound with much better comfort.*

Its not you earbuds, its me. I got old. I know what I want and I dont want to lead you on. Goodbye.

* vs X6, Vido, and LBBS. I know, very limited data.

edit: Ill keep X6 and Vido as a reminder of the good and bad times. I hope you dont mind. LBBS? Yeah no thats dumb, sorry. That’s a lot of bass eq to fix and I worry about distortion with such a tiny driver.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Philimon said:


> Samsung Galaxy Buds Live


Those are earbuds though. At least closer to an earbud than an iem.


----------



## Philimon (Nov 9, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Those are earbuds though. At least closer to an earbud than an iem.


GOAT earbud confirmed.

Nah. Earbuds that require seal are in a different category. The guys talked about it in the last few pages. Traditional earbuds with foams have a more natural timbre (particularly bass). I think its due to their leaky nature via foam. Theory, I could be wrong.

btw Samsung Galaxy Buds Live has vents on ear side and outer side. Isolation is very poor. ANC is effective at blocking out low frequency noises only (engines, washer and dryer, etc). Not tried on a plane.


----------



## Scuba Devils (Nov 9, 2021)

Ok these definitely lack bass compared to my other buds but they are very enjoyable for the price - great soundstage, detailed and airy with excellent mids and treble, no harshness at all. I won't be reaching for them for lively music but certainly a great choice for ambient music while working, love how light they are - very comfortable and the cable is really nice too. They've been in my ears all afternoon and thoroughly enjoyed.


----------



## gazzington

I’m currently going through my earbuds using the cayin c9 amp with some daps. Tubes and earbuds is a very nice combo


----------



## Scuba Devils

gazzington said:


> I’m currently going through my earbuds using the *cayin c9 amp* with some daps. Tubes and earbuds is a very nice combo



On my radar! I've been tempted by the N3Pro as a 'cheap' entry to tubes via a DAP. 

btw, we were talking about ambient albums the other day - another to check out is 'Twentythree' by Carbon Based Lifeforms... amazing on buds, especially the stunning 'Somewhere in Russia'.


----------



## gazzington

Scuba Devils said:


> On my radar! I've been tempted by the N3Pro as a 'cheap' entry to tubes via a DAP.
> 
> btw, we were talking about ambient albums the other day - another to check out is 'Twentythree' by Carbon Based Lifeforms... amazing on buds, especially the stunning 'Somewhere in Russia'.


Definitely worth getting the c9 as you can use it with other daps? Do you have a N6ii?  
Keep the ambient albums coming. I’ll listen to that one tonight 
I’m on the single dd iem hunt too, a8000, Luna, ie900, Isabelle! Not sure which yet.
My 32 pro has been posted now as well. So far I think the em5 is my fav bud. Just relaxes me


----------



## Scuba Devils

gazzington said:


> Definitely worth getting the c9 as you can use it with other daps? Do you have a N6ii?
> Keep the ambient albums coming. I’ll listen to that one tonight
> I’m on the single dd iem hunt too, a8000, Luna, ie900, Isabelle! Not sure which yet.
> My 32 pro has been posted now as well. So far I think the em5 is my fav bud. Just relaxes me



I'm getting the n6ii-Ti later this month, looking to hearing the R01, heard great things about it. 

On ambient albums, I'll pop a few of my all time favourites in a spoiler later.

Yeah I'm curious on Luna too... love IE900 and Isa, plus Dunu Zen recently rekindled love. Isa is great for relaxing, IE900 and Zen more upbeat. Acoustune also on the radar. Love single DDs.

EM5 still my top bud choice too, incredibly relaxing.


----------



## gazzington

Scuba Devils said:


> I'm getting the n6ii-Ti later this month, looking to hearing the R01, heard great things about it.
> 
> On ambient albums, I'll pop a few of my all time favourites in a spoiler later.
> 
> ...


I’ve got all the modules for the N6ii now and the r01 today. The r01 with the em5 is absolutely lovely. I think you really like it. I’d recommend getting the e02 too.  
Yeah I’m thinking Luna too. The a8000 might be a bit too bright for me


----------



## jogawag

Philimon said:


> Warning: subjective rant ahead.
> 
> Ive always disliked iems due to physical discomfort. Have always preferred earbuds if isolation is not a concern. However, I find earbuds not all that comfortable anymore. Koss Porta Pro and Samsung Galaxy Buds Live provide as good or better sound with much better comfort.*
> 
> ...


I've seen some posts lately about the lack of bass in the LBBS, but I think that can be prevented by using Double Foam (Donut Foam on Full Foam) for a better seal and bass enhancement because the LBBS shell is small.

If not, I suspect that you are either a significant bass head, have fallen victim to the lack of QC in the Temperament (Ks earphone), or were sent the LBB instead of the LBBS.


----------



## Scuba Devils

jogawag said:


> I've seen some posts lately about the lack of bass in the LBBS, but I think that can be prevented by using Double Foam (Donut Foam on Full Foam) for a better seal and bass enhancement because the LBBS shell is small.
> 
> If not, I suspect that you are either a significant bass head, have fallen victim to the lack of QC in the Temperament (Ks earphone), or were sent the LBB instead of the LBBS.



I'm finding a bit more of a push in to my ears definitely enhances bass - I might try thicker foams too.

Overall though I'm very pleased with these, great value buds.


----------



## mochill

gazzington said:


> I’ve got all the modules for the N6ii now and the r01 today. The r01 with the em5 is absolutely lovely. I think you really like it. I’d recommend getting the e02 too.
> Yeah I’m thinking Luna too. The a8000 might be a bit too bright for me


Maybe fiio fdx


----------



## Min2

Heads up, NiceHCK EBX21 is going to be around 120$. Reviews are polarized, so the price makes it a little more justified for the purchase. 

_I'll probably pass, since it looks too heavy and not comfy enough._


----------



## baskingshark

Min2 said:


> Heads up, NiceHCK EBX21 is going to be around 120$. Reviews are polarized, so the price makes it a little more justified for the purchase.
> 
> _I'll probably pass, since it looks too heavy and not comfy enough._



It is a neutral bright set, quite technical, thin note weight. The fit is a bit hit or miss for me, I needed to thicken it with double foams to get a secure fit. 

Partly this is due to the cable weight yanking the earbud out of the ears (the cable if I am not mistaken, costs almost half the price of the EBX21!).

I think at $120 it is quite okay, but I still prefer the Yincrow RW2000 over it.


----------



## chinmie

Philimon said:


> GOAT earbud confirmed.
> 
> Nah. Earbuds that require seal are in a different category. The guys talked about it in the last few pages. Traditional earbuds with foams have a more natural timbre (particularly bass). I think its due to their leaky nature via foam. Theory, I could be wrong.
> 
> btw Samsung Galaxy Buds Live has vents on ear side and outer side. Isolation is very poor. ANC is effective at blocking out low frequency noises only (engines, washer and dryer, etc). Not tried on a plane.



though the shape is a bit different, the Buds Live is still an earbud in category, just like the Airpods, Sabbat X12, Vooplay, etc.

I too am using the Buds Live (especially after the last update) and my other TWS earbuds much more frequently these days compared to my wired ones, simply because they're just really convenient and quite good sounding.

the Buds Live has that really deep subbass reach and no midbass bloat, making it more similar in tone to IEMs compared to other earbuds, though in result the mids is more "thin sounding" compared to my other earbuds.

the only thing that i don't like is that it always trying to fall off my ears whenever i tilt my head downward.. luckily using the silicone sleeves solved that particular problem for me


----------



## baskingshark

https://www.smabat.com/collections/hifi耳机/products/m3-pro

Seems like the Smabat M3 Pro has been released. Has tuning dampers to change the sound signature.

The stock driver inside seems to be the ST10S Black Gold driver (150 ohm), probably necessitates an amp like the ST10S Black Gold.


----------



## Min2

baskingshark said:


> (the cable if I am not mistaken, costs almost half the price of the EBX21!).


realistically speaking, the initial asking price for the cable was too high. The cable itself is going on sale too, more than half price down. Again, heavy cables for earbuds sound more like troubles, than gains


----------



## RikudouGoku

Min2 said:


> Heads up, NiceHCK EBX21 is going to be around 120$. Reviews are polarized, so the price makes it a little more justified for the purchase.
> 
> _I'll probably pass, since it looks too heavy and not comfy enough._


Not worth it. LBBS is better lol.


----------



## n00b

baskingshark said:


> https://www.smabat.com/collections/hifi耳机/products/m3-pro
> 
> Seems like the Smabat M3 Pro has been released. Has tuning dampers to change the sound signature.
> 
> The stock driver inside seems to be the ST10S Black Gold driver (150 ohm), probably necessitates an amp like the ST10S Black Gold.


From a design standpoint I have many reservations with this.. the shell looks like it could be 3d printed and not as nicely as the FiiO EM5. The way the modular tuning dampers are exposed makes me worry about them coming out or getting clogged or failing. Because of their position opposite the cable, you might not be able to wear these over the ear since the damper nozzle would be pushing into your ear, which is unfortunate because I liked the M2s pro's fit best when worn over the ear (and makes best use of the MMCX modularity). Are the drivers even replaceable or only the damper? Either way, I don't think it would be enough of an upgrade over my current m2s pro with golden drivers in them. And judging by the price point, it might not be positioned as an upgrade either, but more of a sidegrade to the M2s Pro. That said, Smabat's own flagship underperforms for its pricepoint compared to their own mid-level offerings, so who knows.. Thanks for sharing


----------



## rprodrigues

baskingshark said:


> https://www.smabat.com/collections/hifi耳机/products/m3-pro
> 
> Seems like the Smabat M3 Pro has been released. Has tuning dampers to change the sound signature.
> 
> The stock driver inside seems to be the ST10S Black Gold driver (150 ohm), probably necessitates an amp like the ST10S Black Gold.



I'm skipping these as I did with the previous generation.

I'm sceptical about Smabat's earbuds since I figured out that its 150 Gold drivers sound better in MX500 shells.


----------



## feverfive (Nov 10, 2021)

I remain super intrigued by the new Yincrow RW-3000 (still haven't found them available for sale at AE) for some reason.  No way I'll spend the full $400 SRP though (I assume that's the SRP just based on the price someone stated it was listed in Yuan).

That said, I have a Penon BS1 Official (2.5mm balanced) on its way to me.  I think I'll list those for sale (BNIB, unopened) as soon as I get them.  I also have BNIB/sealed DDHiFi rhodium-plated 2.5mm (female) to 4.4mm & 3.5mm adapters that I just received yesterday (I'll sell these only as a pair).  If anyone ***in the United States*** is interested, let me know.  Otherwise, I'll list all this in classifieds when BS1 is delivered, probably in a couple weeks.


----------



## n00b (Nov 10, 2021)

*Disclaimer: *Newbsound / @irv003 sent me a pair of his 32 pros for free for me to check out and share my honest opinion with you guys since I have a few of the popular buds here. I have no affiliation with them and didn't ask for a sample to review, but I graciously accepted the offer when they reached out. It doesn't affect my opinion of the sound, they don't know what I'm about to post, I'm not being paid to say good things about the product, etc. With that out of the way..





*Initial impressions*
I wanted to wait until I had more formal comparisons, but I can't help myself right now. The Newbsound 32pro are skyrocketing to being one of my favorite buds right now. That's to say, my Bell Ti Plus are being sent back to China for repair/replacement after a channel imbalance issue and with the 32pro's here, I don't feel like I'm missing them that much. I think the tuning is similar but the 32pro excels in bass presentation but lacks the technicalities, detail, air and space that the Bell Ti Plus have. I won't and can't compare them too much because I'm still in the honeymoon phase with the Newbsound and my Bell's are kind of broken. But once again I'm reminded of how hard diminishing returns are. Newbsounds are $75, a hair over 10% of the asking price of Bell Ti Plus, but punching well above 10% of the performance.

*Overall sound signature*
Overall the Newbsound 32 pro signature was described well by others in the thread before: analogue, musical, laid back yet engaging, non-fatiguing, warm, lush, grand in scale.

*Bass*
They have excellent bass in terms of quantity and quality -- I hadn't really understood bass resolution, texture, attack, and decay until critically listening to the 32 pros. I've tried describing it with the analogy of ripples in a pond, since those are waves also. The 32 pro bass to me feels quick and clean on the attack or start of the note, but natural and uninterrupted on its decay or finishing of the note. Combined with the resolving power it lets you "see the individual ripples" before they fade away, or in audio terms, hear the texture of the note (reverberation? vibrations?) as it finishes.

Contrast this with buds that are tight and punchy, some of the bass feels truncated or interrupted doesn't ride out its full course, making the low end sound hurried and thin, but impactful and distinct. The Newbsound 32pro imparts a smoother, fuller, richer, silkier presentation overall, but I don't find it lacks detail nor do I find it to be muddying or overpowering.

The impact is substantial and satisfying but it's not fatiguing or overbearing -- my Bell Ti Plus was very punchy and it felt like I could feel the air hitting my ear drum, like a tiny ghost boxer in my ears lol. I think X6 is very close in bass quantity, maybe slightly less, but doesn't have the same level of detail and clarity. In comparison it's slightly muffled and loose and monolithic. The 32pro I can sense the "shape" and edges and extent of the bass. A weird analogy is like with deep bass kicks being someone knocking at your door: with the 32 pro, you know who's on the other side. With the X6, you don't know who's there, but there's a lot of them lol

*Vocals*
I'm not qualified to do the traditional evaluation of mids and treble and get into technical terms with graphs and all that, so I'll try to relate things to my experience. This is, after all, totally subjective and in my head. I don't play any instruments either, so I'm not going to pretend I'm RikudouGoku and talk about instrumental timbre. But I will say once you get past the very satisfying bass (which, satisfies me in quantity and quality without the weird congested feeling that I got from FiiO EM5), the other thing I notice is vocals are pretty clear.

For some context, I listen to mainly female vocal pop (kpop and american pop), R&B, and electronic club music. That's why I pay most attention to bass and higher vocals. With that said, the vocals don't ever feel lost in the mix or overpowered by anything, they seem to be imaged slightly up front and center whereas some buds like my Smabat M2s Pro with gold driver feel split and on each side of my head. In a good way, they resemble vocals from LBBS (by how they're imaged in my head), but not quite as crisp and detailed, not quite as airy and intimate. 32pros are more chesty than throaty, maybe some would describe this as "sweet". They're not fatiguing, I don't feel strained to hear vocals, so I'm very satisfied.

Some might say the LBBS vocals and overall presentation is "thin" compared to the Newbsound 32 pro and I can see why. I would consider that being detailed, airy, etc, but some might not like how that sounds. The warmth imparted by the Newbsound 32 pro is just enough to me to add some weight to vocals but not muddy them or make them feel congested and nasally. Big point to mention here: I haven't given them much testing to male vocals. I listened to some Justin Bieber and Giveon and it sounded fine to me, I know others have expressed theres a bass bleed/veil that obstructs male vocals but that's not something I noticed like I did immediately with the FiiO EM5.

*Technicalities*
As I said I don't really know how to evaluate treble very well, I will say that the sound sig of the 32 pro is not fatiguing or harsh. Things like cymbals, hi-hats, bells etc are pretty smooth, I don't think I hear much sizzle and overall it's pleasant and inoffensive to me. The Smabat Super One Driver in M2s Pro was too bright by comparison. NiceHCK EBX21 was also fairly bright.

Soundstage seems good to me, pretty wide and with the fullness of the bass response it feels like a very "grand" "magnificent" "amphitheater" presentation. Red Velvet - Queendom (Demicat Remix) is really satisfying for that grand feeling and conveying everything I've said so far. The imaging seemed to go out of my head and made me double take at 0:21 of Jeon Somi - Don't Let Me Go with her "Yeh!" adlib on the left. There's also a good sense of layering and separation, but maybe not the best I've heard compared to the Chaconne and Bell Ti Plus which are extremely clear in that regard. A busy passage I like to test with is 2:26 of Red Velvet - Red Flavor as there's a lot going on sonically on different parts of the frequency range and also spatially in the mix. Again, it's detailed enough and not fatiguing so I enjoy it.

*Build/construction*
This is my first custom/artisanal earbud in general. I'm a maker myself (modding Game Boys) and I am impressed with Bisoy's craftsmanship here. The work is clean, but if I nitpick it would be that the cable is not as supple as most earbuds and seems pretty microphonic in my experience. The cable does seem to fight me/resist especially in the 4-braid section below the Y splitter, but on the flip side it does inspire confidence in the cable's longevity. I do wonder if it will change color over time though. I also think the little red o-ring for the channel indicator and the clear o-ring as a chin slider are clever and cute but don't really match the premium feel of the rest of the hardware, but I think it's charming and they're easily removable if that bothers you. MX500 shells tend to creak when I press on them but that's just the nature of DIY plastic shells.

*Who is this for? Do I recommend them?*
The Newbsound 32pro would be a good recommendation for earbud enthusiasts with a modest budget who enjoy a warm, musical, laid back tuning that's still engaging and detailed/resolving enough. Listening to them is like sitting back in a leather recliner -- comfy, but not too warm or fuzzy, with clear definition, a little fancy and luxe -- yet still engaging. Contrast this to something like the LBBS which is more like sitting at the edge of your seat, listening intently to every word and detail with energy and anticipation. The X6 is like lying down on a soft rug lol.

At $75 they are priced out of the "buy without auditioning" bracket IMO, especially in the earbud niche. If you are a beginner and not sure if MX500s fit you or you can deal with no isolation etc, the easy recommendation is the X6. If you want to graduate from those, or like me, were curious about custom artisanal offerings, Bisoy's 32pro is a great way to get your toes wet if you don't have the budget for Blurs (which, I admittedly haven't tried, but only hear good things about). With that said, I think they easily outperform the X6 by doing what the X6 does well (bass and subbass) even better in my opinion. Are they 5x better than X6? Probably not. But are the Bell Ti Plus 9x better than the Newbsound? Definitely not either, that's diminishing returns for you.

So if you are into this kind of tuning/sound signature AND have the budget AND know where you stand with MX500 fit or earbuds in general AND appreciate artisanal craftsmanship, *yes I recommend*. Personally I love the warm syrupy thicc sound signature of Sony gear, and tested the 32 pros on my ZX507 and WM1A with WM1Z firmware mod. I still didn't find the combo with Newbsound 32pros to be overly warm. If your preferences lean towards reference tuning or wanting something flat, analytical, extremely detail driven, etc, you probably won't like these. If you ever listen to something and feel like "This is too much bass" you might find the Newbsound 32pro to be too warm as well. I personally crave bass when using earbuds since it's so hard to find, but the 32pro delivers in a big way.



Spoiler: gear used



3.5mm Newbsound 32pro (no burn in)
Full foams, worn down
Sony WM1A or ZX507





Spoiler: tracks referenced











will update this later with photos and more tracks/specific song passages if needed. let me know if theres anything else I forgot here. again, big thanks to Bisoy for sending these over. Might have to buy another pair in balanced for myself as a backup!


----------



## Saoshyant

Rose has a new earbud coming out?  Might be time to buy a new earbud to try out after all this time


----------



## rkw (Nov 10, 2021)

Saoshyant said:


> Rose has a new earbud coming out?  Might be time to buy a new earbud to try out after all this time


Rose has a good track record with their Mojito/Masya/Maria style earbuds, but the new one has a completely different and unproven design. I would proceed with caution.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Nov 11, 2021)

Saoshyant said:


> Rose has a new earbud coming out?  Might be time to buy a new earbud to try out after all this time


Two (2) in fact!



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-15645663


rkw said:


> Rose has a good track record with their Mojito/Masya/Maria style earbuds, but the new one has a completely different and unproven design. I would proceed with caution.


Concur; I am sketepical and weary about throwbacks (reissues of 80s/90s designs). Though with that said their previous buds have been damn good. Though bright and fatiguing to me (I am sensitive to sibilant treble) the Maria II is an extraordinary earbud in so many regards... the widest head/soundstage I have ever experienced with an earbud.


----------



## Scuba Devils

Moondrop Chaconne looks like around €231 from their AE store for 11.11... very tempting!


----------



## Scuba Devils

Update: Chaconne ordered.


----------



## RikudouGoku

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003538996727.html


It must be the EBX21? Only other metal + mmcx bud from them, is the Yincrow RW-2000 but that is at around 150 usd and I doubt they need to get it out of their stock compared to the EBX21....


----------



## digititus

RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003538996727.html
> 
> 
> It must be the EBX21? Only other metal + mmcx bud from them, is the Yincrow RW-2000 but that is at around 150 usd and I doubt they need to get it out of their stock compared to the EBX21....


Original RRP was $299? However, I can't think that it would be anything else.


----------



## digititus

Smabat SuperOne?


----------



## RikudouGoku

digititus said:


> Original RRP was $299? However, I can't think that it would be anything else.


Says its around 220 usd.


----------



## Billyak

RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003538996727.html
> 
> 
> It must be the EBX21? Only other metal + mmcx bud from them, is the Yincrow RW-2000 but that is at around 150 usd and I doubt they need to get it out of their stock compared to the EBX21....


I've just ordered the lucky bag 😬


----------



## digititus (Nov 11, 2021)

Yeah, confirmed by looking at Aliprice.com Shows the EBX21 @ $219 currently
EBX21 doesn't interest me. The Super One would


----------



## RikudouGoku

digititus said:


> Yeah, confirmed by looking at Aliprice.com Shows the EBX21 @ $219 currently
> EBX21 doesn't interest me. The Super One would


I thought so....

LBBS is better than it regardless of price so....


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003538996727.html
> 
> 
> It must be the EBX21? Only other metal + mmcx bud from them, is the Yincrow RW-2000 but that is at around 150 usd and I doubt they need to get it out of their stock compared to the EBX21....



I'll put my money on the EBX21 being in this lucky bag.


----------



## Rick1982 (Nov 11, 2021)

Very tempted by the FiiO EM5... but how much superior they are to the LBBs, X6 and K64?
How much it is worth the price difference?
I know it all depends on personal preferences and tastes but technically speaking are they far better to the cheapest buds mentioned above?
I listen to Jazz, Blues, Rock and similar...


----------



## n00b

Rick1982 said:


> Very tempted by the FiiO EM5... but how much superior they are to the LBBs, X6 and K64?
> How much it is worth the price difference?
> I know it all depends on personal preferences and tastes but technically speaking are they far better to the cheapest buds mentioned above?
> I listen to Jazz, Blues, Rock and similar...


Diminishing returns hit hard, it’s an enthusiast product imo because the fit is a bit difficult and a lot of the price goes into the cable too. If you don’t value multiple balanced terminations it’s less worth it.. also tonally you might like them for your library as they felt very bassy and warm, technicalities were befitting the price tier IIRC. I couldn’t get over the way vocals sounded so I returned mine but some people here seem to love them. I personally don’t see them as all rounder buds for all music in any situation (better at home than on the go bc of the fit in my experience)


----------



## Rick1982

n00b said:


> Diminishing returns hit hard, it’s an enthusiast product imo because the fit is a bit difficult and a lot of the price goes into the cable too. If you don’t value multiple balanced terminations it’s less worth it.. also tonally you might like them for your library as they felt very bassy and warm, technicalities were befitting the price tier IIRC. I couldn’t get over the way vocals sounded so I returned mine but some people here seem to love them. I personally don’t see them as all rounder buds for all music in any situation (better at home than on the go bc of the fit in my experience)


Thanks!
Generally I like a warm or better neutral/warm sound signature and I give more importance to the atmosphere created by the sound in general than to the smallest detail, I prefer an immersive experience rather than analyzing every single detail in the track. Of course, the technicalities must still be at an average level or above average.
I have a Xduoo XD05 Bal (6,3 & 4,4mm) and a Chord Mojo (3,5mm) so i will use max 2 of 3 terminations.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Nov 11, 2021)

*Yincrow RW-3000*
https://a.aliexpress.com/_AXsu3l

*VE Asura 3*
https://a.aliexpress.com/_9xeNob

*DQSM Audio PD21*
https://a.aliexpress.com/_AkJMLH


----------



## gazzington

Lbbs ordered 😀


----------



## Rick1982

gazzington said:


> Lbbs ordered 😀


Mine arrived this afternoon, no time to listen yet…


----------



## gazzington

I’m also looking at the dqsm turandot. What kind of sound signature does it have?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

gazzington said:


> I’m also looking at the dqsm turandot. What kind of sound signature does it have?


Here are some posts I made regarding them:

Post #1
Post #2
Post #3
Post #4

My lil' Siamese wife stole mine and refuses to return them (Post #5)


----------



## digititus

The VE Asura 3.0 looks interesting. Can anyone comment of the previous 2 iterations?
Not much info on their websites regarding specs either.


----------



## tranceace (Nov 11, 2021)

I'm curious about the high impedance 600/300/150 ohm earbuds? Do they make a difference? Nice ones you can recommend? I mainly listen to vocals/classical but I would like something unexpected. I would appreciate nice bass texture as well with natural vocals.
I just ordered moondrop chaconne.


----------



## emusic13

digititus said:


> The VE Asura 3.0 looks interesting. Can anyone comment of the previous 2 iterations?
> Not much info on their websites regarding specs either.


Based on Lees posts, the signature should be more in line with the Monk SM than either of the previous two Asura. Previous asura are also Mx shell vs this ones PK shell. He probably should have named it something else unless its just his general naming scheme for mid models It does have an lcp driver if thats something you want to try.


----------



## emusic13

gazzington said:


> I’m also looking at the dqsm turandot. What kind of sound signature does it have?


I'd say bright U shape.


----------



## tranceace

How does VE Asura 3.0 compare to VE Zen 2.0? They are sold at similar price right now.


----------



## waynes world

RikudouGoku said:


> I thought so....
> 
> LBBS is better than it regardless of price so....



Ok, LBBS ordered! I'll probably feel the need to pump up the bass a bit with them, but that's fine. I'm looking forward to them!

Also got the X6's to replace my pair that broke. Yay.


----------



## emusic13

tranceace said:


> How does VE Asura 3.0 compare to VE Zen 2.0? They are sold at similar price right now.


It hasnt been released yet but going based on what Lee has said of it being like an upgrade to Monk SM, it should be a matter of sound preference. You want warm and to some, dark? Zen 2.  Bright neutral, Asura 3.0 (going off Monk SM and  Monk Go). Stock LCP is a bright driver.


----------



## F700 (Nov 11, 2021)

Starting to understand what a tuned MX500 is able to deliver soundwise. Even if the TY Hi-Z HP 400se is not the new kid in town, this approx. USD 80.- earbud set is nothing but impressive. Bass is impactful yet detailed, the mids are neutral but beautifully rendered and the highs slightly rolled-off. Soundstage is realistically wide. My dope.

This set is more balanced than the Smabat ST-10s black/gold and miles away from the X6. Amping is not mandatory, but welcome anyway.

Honeymoon phase. More to come.

Getting all the bass I need on this track with the 400s:


Ambient/atmospheric tune


Even Boards Of Canada’s Telephasic Workshop is greatly played-back. Not the easiest track when it comes to Electronics.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Nov 12, 2021)

emusic13 said:


> I'd say bright U shape.


Do you mean a bright "W-Shaped" perhaps?

I could see the Turandot taking on some "U-Shaped" like sound signature charactrerirstcs but only at a secondary (or rather tertiary) level as it's primary (strongest) signature is strongly mid-forward (mid-centric) by nature... both "V" and "U" shaped signatures are synonymous with recessed mids.

The Turandot exhibits a peaky upper mid-range (into the lower treble) so it can often be rather "hard-harsh" (aggressive) sounding which many times I think people mistake/confuse for being bright and/or sibilant. Personally, I never found the Turandot to be overly bright and/or sibilant and I am extremely sensitive to bright-sibilant treble frequencies (detest them in fact) but I would whole-heartedly agree that the Turandot can be a tad aggressive and very forward (in your face) especially with some music genres and recordings. Interestingly, I found that the Turandot exhibits an odd opposing tertiary signature that I originally thought was warmness, and then smoothness, until I realized that it was in fact darkness with some similar tendencies that I hear in my SENN HD650. This dark and strongly opposing tertiary sound characteristic is what pulls the Turandot downward from being "Bright" to "Aggressive" and thus resulting in recessed sibilant-free treble (high frequencies).

The below chart is plotting the primary (strongest) signature of the Turandot with a bold dark red dot and dark red-shaded oval approaching full "aggressive". A strong secondary balloon in shaded-baby blue is reaching up towards the "bright" region to "sharp" & "detailed". A number of tertiary arrows in shaded-light green are reaching out to some lesser (and some opposing) tertiary sound signature characteristics. I have added a light purple-shaded arrow as well indicating another possible "U-Shaped" tertiary sound characteristic that some people may hear and I sincerely do see that as being quite valid with some music genres and listening levels.


----------



## BotByte (Nov 12, 2021)

F700 said:


> Starting to understand what a tuned MX500 is able to deliver soundwise. Even if the TY Hi-Z HP 400se is not the new kid in town, this approx. USD 80.- earbud set is nothing but impressive. Bass is impactful yet detailed, the mids are neutral but beautifully rendered and the highs slightly rolled-off. Soundstage is realistically wide. My dope.


Coming from the DIY scene, I made some rivet modded Full Ti in MX500 shells and was blown away. @Rary can contest as well, as they're second on his list. TOTL V-shape tuning. Again, in MX500 shells. And, I think my tuning is a bit off, but super impressed by what you can do in cheap plastic shells and the right tuning behind decent drivers. 

I've got better drivers and metal shells coming in from 11.11 sales, so we'll see if they can match up.


----------



## Rary (Nov 12, 2021)

BotByte said:


> Coming from the DIY scene, I made some rivet modded Full Ti in MX500 shells and was blown away. @Rary can contest as well, as they're second on his list. TOTL V-shape tuning. Again, in MX500 shells. And, I think my tuning is a bit off, but super impressed by what you can do in cheap plastic shells and the right tuning behind decent drivers.
> 
> I've got better drivers and metal shells coming in from 11.11 sales, so we'll see if they can match up.


I can confirm that after trying well tuned DIY earbuds it's hard to come back to branded models.


----------



## BotByte

Rary said:


> I can confirm that after trying well tuned DIY earbuds it's hard to come back to branded models.


It's a love-hate relationship.  Your best tuned DIY earbud reminds you of your great failure of the monstrosity of a badly tuned one.

I'm kind of tempted to grab a high-end earbud as a benchmark, but then I'm like... I could buy a handful of the best drivers, shells, and all the things for the same price!


----------



## assassin10000 (Nov 12, 2021)

BotByte said:


> It's a love-hate relationship.  Your best tuned DIY earbud reminds you of your great failure of the monstrosity of a badly tuned one.
> 
> I'm kind of tempted to grab a high-end earbud as a benchmark, but then I'm like... I could buy a handful of the best drivers, shells, and all the things for the same price!


Or you can't find the shell you want and mod a perfectly good earbud just for the shell.

I'll probably deconstruct one of my current 2 pairs of K's LBBs. I already did both pairs of my older '18 LB (mmcx mod) & '20 LBB (mmcx mod, driver and tuned).


I sold both pairs of my Ourart ACG and kinda miss them. Ordered the Ti7 today as I always kinda wanted to hear them. Maybe it'll satisfy my want for amazing mids again.


----------



## eridenti

This is the correct LBBS right? I'm very tempted to get a pair whenever I'm taking a break from using BL03 due to the headache I occasionally get. How's the durability of the cable? Are there any genres these don't handle that well?




https://shopee.ph/Ksearphone-Bell-L...-Headset-Flat-Earplugs-i.43253829.10024282445


----------



## BotByte

assassin10000 said:


> Or you can't find the shell you want and mod a perfectly good earbud just for the shell.


Don't forget ripping good drivers out of iffy shells. Or even swapping drivers and shells of brand earphones.  

I haven't progressed _that far.... _yet_. _


----------



## emusic13

WoodyLuvr said:


> Do you mean a bright "W-Shaped" perhaps?
> 
> I could see the Turandot taking on some "U-Shaped" like sound signature charactrerirstcs but only at a secondary (or rather tertiary) level as it's primary (strongest) signature is strongly mid-forward (mid-centric) by nature... both "V" and "U" shaped signatures are synonymous with recessed mids.
> 
> ...


Wow, nice explanation of your opinion. Interesting  , shows that everyone hears differently. Maybe others who have the Turandot can chime in?   I'm sure Turandot is on some peoples wish list so they'd want more opinions to see what will sound good to them. The only bud with peaky mids I can compare to is my former Blur mx150 aPs which might be why I don't find the Turandot having a peaky mid-range (in comparison)

 "I sincerely do see that as being quite valid with some music genres and listening levels."
That might be the case as well. I listen at what I'd consider low volume.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Or you can't find the shell you want and mod a perfectly good earbud just for the shell.
> 
> I'll probably deconstruct one of my current 2 pairs of K's LBBs. I already did both pairs of my older '18 LB (mmcx mod) & '20 LBB (mmcx mod, driver and tuned).
> 
> ...


DIY ShoonTH foster driver has amazing mids and highs. You should try it. It's MX760 cover so you can use it with DP100, Hybrid and MX500 (for this I recommend transferring the driver to MX500 cover or buy a pair with that cover)


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> DIY ShoonTH foster driver has amazing mids and highs. You should try it. It's MX760 cover so you can use it with DP100, Hybrid and MX500 (for this I recommend transferring the driver to MX500 cover or buy a pair with that cover)



I would but it wouldn't get much, if any at all, ear time. 15.4mm size drivers are uncomfortable for my ears, otherwise I'd have many more options from the plethora of good drivers that are available in that size.


----------



## RikudouGoku

My wallet only suffered mildly this 11/11. 

K´s K300
Qian39
ShoonTH ESEP-01BLE






eridenti said:


> Are there any genres these don't handle that well?


Bassy stuff, like EDM, Trance, Hip-Hop.


----------



## digititus

RikudouGoku said:


> My wallet only suffered mildly this 11/11.


Mine is untouched. Nothing tempted me and no really great deals which would compel me to buy!


----------



## RikudouGoku

digititus said:


> Mine is untouched. Nothing tempted me and no really great deals which would compel me to buy!


Yeah, the deals aren't that good recently with 11/11...


----------



## snapandslide

Urgh, EM5s ordered. Thanks @Scuba Devils ...............


----------



## Chessnaudio

RikudouGoku said:


> My wallet only suffered mildly this 11/11.
> 
> K´s K300
> Qian39
> ...


I thought you were done with buds bro!?


----------



## Chessnaudio

digititus said:


> Mine is untouched. Nothing tempted me and no really great deals which would compel me to buy!


Same. No good deals that were tempting at all


----------



## Scuba Devils

snapandslide said:


> Urgh, EM5s ordered. Thanks @Scuba Devils ...............



Traillii up on classifieds soon so 😅


----------



## snapandslide

Scuba Devils said:


> Traillii up on classifieds soon so 😅


Ha no chance - I am going to have a clean out tho.......


----------



## RikudouGoku

Chessnaudio said:


> I thought you were done with buds bro!?


....gotta buy something on 11/11 you know.


----------



## Chessnaudio

RikudouGoku said:


> My wallet only suffered mildly this 11/11.
> 
> K´s K300
> Qian39
> ...


That aside have you received and reviewed the Astrotec Lyra limited yet?


----------



## eridenti

RikudouGoku said:


> Bassy stuff, like EDM, Trance, Hip-Hop.


Hmm I only listen to EDM occasionally so maybe it won't be a bad choice for me lol I still have these local V-shaped buds anyway


----------



## RikudouGoku

Chessnaudio said:


> That aside have you received and reviewed the Astrotec Lyra limited yet?


They havent shipped it out, a month away at least. 




eridenti said:


> Hmm I only listen to EDM occasionally so maybe it won't be a bad choice for me lol I still have these local V-shaped buds anyway


(I personally would just use iems for those genres anyway.)


----------



## Scuba Devils

RikudouGoku said:


> (I personally would just use iems for those genres anyway.)



Yes 100%, my short obsession with buds has educated me clearly on where they do and don't excel - where they do, they absolutely walk all over IEMs for me, regardless of price.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Just got these:

Koss KPH14: (earbud/headphone hybrid)
Very bright, less bass and more treble than the Koss KSC75. Fit is very secure, but feels weird at first. Headband adjustment is very short,  asian/women sized I guess.


Philips SHS3300BK: Tuned to be used without foams (mainstream consumption), but has a 3k peak that way. Put on a foam, and it actually sounds pretty decent. 
(with foams)
Mid-bass bud, with very little sub-bass. Vocals are decent but timbre isnt that good. treble is on the warmer side. 
This one has potential, will spend more time with it after my backlog is gone. (Oh, and that fit/comfort is excellent as you might be able to tell from the design.)


----------



## n00b

Scuba Devils said:


> Yes 100%, my short obsession with buds has educated me clearly on where they do and don't excel - where they do, they absolutely walk all over IEMs for me, regardless of price.


yo i just peeped your signature, youre gonna have a ton of TOTL buds soon. curious how you feel about your beloved em5 vs chaconne vs newbsound 32pro

and yeah for a time (until they broke) I kept thinking my bell ti plus were the best _sounding_ transducers i own and I have a kilobuck IEM. super budpilled now, but i want to quit this hobby for my wallets sake lol


----------



## ian91 (Nov 12, 2021)

n00b said:


> yo i just peeped your signature, youre gonna have a ton of TOTL buds soon. curious how you feel about your beloved em5 vs chaconne vs newbsound 32pro
> 
> and yeah for a time (until they broke) I kept thinking my bell ti plus were the best _sounding_ transducers i own and I have a kilobuck IEM. super budpilled now, but i want to quit this hobby for my wallets sake lol



The next few months for me will be quiet on new purchases. I'll just be enjoying what I have and learning more about what they offer. 

Hope you get your Bell Ti+ sorted...!


----------



## waynes world

RikudouGoku said:


> Bassy stuff, like EDM, Trance, Hip-Hop.



Oh, so _now_ you tell me! 

Just kidding. But some bass boost should help with that (I hope).



RikudouGoku said:


> (I personally would just use iems for those genres anyway.)



Unfortunately my ears and iems don't play well together, so earbuds all the way!


----------



## RikudouGoku

waynes world said:


> Just kidding. But some bass boost should help with that (I hope).


Well, it can handle up to 25db (without distortion) sub-bass boost.   

I do have the X6 simulation preset on it if you want.

When I have time, I will go back and see if I can refine that preset, into my target instead of the X6 though.


----------



## Scuba Devils

n00b said:


> yo i just peeped your signature, youre gonna have a ton of TOTL buds soon. curious how you feel about your beloved em5 vs chaconne vs newbsound 32pro
> 
> and yeah for a time (until they broke) I kept thinking my bell ti plus were the best _sounding_ transducers i own and I have a kilobuck IEM. super budpilled now, but i want to quit this hobby for my wallets sake lol



Yeah it has been interesting exploring the various signatures/fit etc on different buds. EM5 tuning hits a sweet spot for a large part of my buds listening preferences, I think Chaconne will do similar but with a different slant. Can't wait for 32pro, heard nothing but great reports - frustratingly, it has been in Dublin since Monday but hasn't managed to progress from handling agent to local postal service, painful checking the tracking every day and nothing has changed 😪

Still love my IEMs too and they get daily attention but definitely less time of late.

Annoying with your Ti, hope resolved soon.


----------



## waynes world

RikudouGoku said:


> Well, it can handle up to 25db (without distortion) sub-bass boost.
> 
> I do have the X6 simulation preset on it if you want.
> 
> When I have time, I will go back and see if I can refine that preset, into my target instead of the X6 though.



I really like the X6's, but my ears are pretty easy to please, so I probably won't need to replicate them. I suspect that just adding a bit more bass will do just fine, and I might find that I don't even need to do that. But I'll keep your offer in mind - thanks!


----------



## BotByte

furyossa said:


> DIY ShoonTH foster driver has amazing mids and highs. You should try it. It's MX760 cover so you can use it with DP100, Hybrid and MX500 (for this I recommend transferring the driver to MX500 cover or buy a pair with that cover)


I'm tempted by this, but wondering if this is the same driver, just sold by pair.  Only difference I can see is the glue color, but no stats posted. If we're talking batch/branded drivers, I'd be interested in trying the TC200 drivers found here.


----------



## digititus

Well, I caved in. Those last minute 11/11 messages popped up and I picked up the EM5 for $160. That was tempting enough and I consider a bargain. Let's see how it performs.


----------



## Scuba Devils

digititus said:


> Well, I caved in. Those last minute 11/11 messages popped up and I picked up the EM5 for $160. That was tempting enough and I consider a bargain. Let's see how it performs.



Serious bargain, I know 2 other people who jumped in at the same price. I actually briefly considered buying another set to have in reserve!


----------



## Carrow

Don't understand what's happened here but SOMEHOW my ZOE pair I bought from Wild Lee in September have landed safely! So three weeks pass and I see my package is in the country in mid-October. I then go to check tracking and discover these have seemingly been returned to sender due to customs issues. I tell Lee he can expect them back. Without my knowledge, PostNL intercept them and send them back to me - I was VERY surprised when I got a small package today! Looking forward to seeing what these have to offer, first impressions are SUPER positive!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

WoodyLuvr said:


> Firstly, welcome to the fold and be forewarned "_*here be a very deep rabbit hole*_".
> 
> 
> Secondly, we generally have avoided rankings on this thread as it had caused us some problems before... years ago an "earlier" version of this thread had a ranking list but it caused such a period of disagreement that it was eventually taken down in order to maintain the peace. No one would could agree to disagree . Plus, everyone has their own listening, tuning, cabling, and shell-type preferences.
> ...


I updated *WoodyLuvr's God-Tier List *just above (please see *here*). I have added a few warning notes, as well as added a few key earbuds that I discovered are still available and/or have been re-issued again... one of which I heard today the re-issued Zeva SuperFire Pro which like the Yincrow X6 and Ks Bell-LBBs is punching well above it's price tag and thus deserving a spot on the list for that feat alone. I also returned the Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis, after hearing it again today... I had forgotten how spectacular and wide the head/soundstage sounded on these buds along with sweet vocals and mids. Cheers.


----------



## eridenti

Does a white LBBS exist? I noticed a different store offers it and I like the look of it.
https://shopee.ph/product/283086553/3956869379?smtt=0.306561768-1636805444.9


----------



## F700

The LBBs have landed yesterday.

First impressions are positive. Comfortable to wear, stable fit, shells seem to be solid, well-balanced sound. Vocals, soundstage and detail retrieval ability stand out to me so far. Like this set, especially at the price point. It lacks a bit of bass impact, yes, but nothing tragic. The aforementioned firm fit I get with the LBBs makes the sound experience pretty pleasant. I praise the small form factor here. Bass-heads won't be at home with the LBBs, but here I am talking about true bass-heads, not people occasionally wishing to get the extra little oomph out of their tunes. However, I notice a small amount of glare in the upper-mids, even through a warmish source like the Calyx M. Nothing bad, just splitting hairs, but it has to be said anyway. Volume also requires to be finely adjusted, in order to find the sweet spot between the well-textured mids and the rest of the spectrum. Setting the volume too low or too high makes the magic disappear. 

The LBBs is a very good pair of earbuds, deserving their reputation on this thread. The most remarkable thing I have to say about the LBBs is that they manage to make the Radiohead's album "In Rainbows" sounding enjoyable (given the pretty poor recording quality, no format-related). This fact speaks for itself in my book. 

Let's dig just a bit further, because I got the MX500-based TY Hi-Z 400se (T-400) on Thursday and this set delivers as much as the LBBs, eventhough they are complementary.

_LBBs takes on the TY Hi-Z 400se



_

The LBBs most likely will please a wider audience than the T-400. Why? They are easier to drive (the T-400 = 400ohm, hence their name), the sound signature is less specific and, last but not least, they are a bit cheaper. That being said, the T-400 enter the arena with a full pounding sub-bass and an overall warmish sound _à la_ Sony N3, without being dark or muddy. The N3's owners around here will understand what I am talking about. The treble is not massively rolled-off and the detail retrieval more than decent overall. 

If you are into a bright signature, T-400 will give you a hard time and the LBBs will fit your bill better. If you are an aficionado of multiple signatures, the T-400 represent a real alternative to the reference sounding buds and might find a place in your collection.

You might have guessed by now, I am very enthusiastic about the T-400, but it applies to the LBBs too. Great earbuds. USD 130.- for both? Ok. Fair enough...

Here are the tracks I listened to, several times today, enjoying the LBBs and the T-400. I got lost for hours, feels good. 

- Both deliver - Enjoyable movie, good OST -


 - The LBBs deliver - Instrument separation and vocals - 


- The T-400 deliver - French metamorphic track with an unexpected last pumpin' section - 


- Both deliver - 48min of Electronic bliss // the LBBs take care of the soundstage and the _finesse_ in the melodic section, the T-400 nail it on the bass and the whole atmosphere


----------



## Scuba Devils

F700 said:


> The LBBs have landed yesterday.
> 
> First impressions are positive. Comfortable to wear, stable fit, shells seem to be solid, well-balanced sound. Vocals, soundstage and detail retrieval ability stand out to me so far. Like this set, especially at the price point. It lacks a bit of bass impact, yes, but nothing tragic. The aforementioned firm fit I get with the LBBs makes the sound experience pretty pleasant. I praise the small form factor here. Bass-heads won't be at home with the LBBs, but here I am talking about true bass-heads, not people occasionally wishing to get the extra little oomph out of their tunes. However, I notice a small amount of glare in the upper-mids, even through a warmish source like the Calyx M. Nothing bad, just splitting hairs, but it has to be said anyway. Volume also requires to be finely adjusted, in order to find the sweet spot between the well-textured mids and the rest of the spectrum. Setting the volume too low or too high makes the magic disappear.
> 
> ...




Great to hear your impressions my friend. I find it interesting with buds that they are fantastic at making older/not great sounding recordings sound often a lot better than much more 'technically' advanced IEMs manage.

I love LBBS, great value for such an enjoyable set of buds - perfect for chilling in bed before I sleep and also at work when doing less challenging tasks.


----------



## F700

Scuba Devils said:


> I find it interesting with buds that they are fantastic at making older/not great sounding recordings sound often a lot better than much more 'technically' advanced IEMs manage.


This is it. Still love my IEMs, though. It's another take on how music is played back. I am glad I have jumped on the earbud train, it's a nice thread also.


----------



## RikudouGoku

F700 said:


> This is it. Still love my IEMs, though. It's another take on how music is played back. I am glad I have jumped on the earbud train, it's a nice thread also.


Glad to see more iem people joining us.


----------



## Scuba Devils

F700 said:


> This is it. Still love my IEMs, though. It's another take on how music is played back. I am glad I have jumped on the earbud train, it's a nice thread also.



Yes absolutely another take, and an amazing one at that. Good to see you onboard and looking forward to sharing further impressions - a more cost effective rabbit hole vs IEMs! 

I'm listening to the Blur 266 PK32 New Line right now with the ZX507, they sound incredible together - 'Elsewhere' by Miktek my choice of album, I'm blown away by how deep the sub bass digs.


----------



## F700

RikudouGoku said:


> Glad to see more iem people joining us.


Music lover joining music lovers.


----------



## F700

Scuba Devils said:


> Yes absolutely another take, and an amazing one at that. Good to see you onboard and looking forward to sharing further impressions - a more cost effective rabbit hole vs IEMs!
> 
> I'm listening to the Blur 266 PK32 New Line right now with the ZX507, they sound incredible together - 'Elsewhere' by Miktek my choice of album, I'm blown away by how deep the sub bass digs.


Great looking set. After those hours spent with the LBBs and the T-400, I have ordered a set of 32Pro.


----------



## Billyak

I've currently got the yincrow x6 and the jcally ep05 and I think I have caught the earbud bug. 

There is a natural and open sound that is missing from IEMs. The only disadvantages I see with buds is the lack of sub bass. I can not hear anything under 60hz but there is not a massive amount of information in that range that I can notice.


----------



## Scuba Devils

F700 said:


> Great looking set. After those hours spent with the LBBs and the T-400, I have ordered a set of 32Pro.



Congrats! I've had the PK32 a few weeks now and not given it the attention it clearly deserved, I now want to stay up all night listening! The Newbsound 32pro should be with me in the coming days, very excited to hear that.


----------



## F700 (Nov 13, 2021)

Scuba Devils said:


> Congrats! I've had the PK32 a few weeks now and not given it the attention it clearly deserved, I now want to stay up all night listening! The Newbsound 32pro should be with me in the coming days, very excited to hear that.


At the pace you are buying stuff, it's understandable you are keeping some transducers aside  just joking, you are living and enjoying the hobby as it should, I mean it. It's overwhelming sometimes, isn't it?

NB: I am not better recently, ordering and focusing on new purchases... oh well...


----------



## Scuba Devils

F700 said:


> At the pace you are buying stuff, it's understandable you are keeping some transducers aside  just joking, you are living and enjoying the hobby as it should, I mean it. It's overwhelming sometimes, isn't it?
> 
> NB: I am not better recently, ordering and focusing on new purchases... oh well...



Oh it's true, a ridiculous pace - I'll put the brakes on now though and get to know what I have better... 2021 is the year of discovery, 2022 the year of knowledge  Funny actually, I noted that tomorrow is my 1st anniversary on Head-Fi - what a year!


----------



## F700

Ending the night with one feeling after having spent the whole day with 2 great earbuds:


----------



## BotByte

Billyak said:


> I've currently got the yincrow x6 and the jcally ep05 and I think I have caught the earbud bug.
> 
> There is a natural and open sound that is missing from IEMs. The only disadvantages I see with buds is the lack of sub bass. I can not hear anything under 60hz but there is not a massive amount of information in that range that I can notice.


I think that's more of a natural limitation with buds due to loss of seal, and cheaper drivers and shells. The X6 for example are very warm, they have good bass but mostly pinned on mid-bass and bleed into the mids (in a good way) which adds that warmth. 

I haven't listened to higher-end buds because I turned DIY, but from what I've tried sub-bass presence can be achieved for sure. To the level of some non-sub-bass focused IEMs (not Fiio FH3, Teas for example). I'd say my DIY Full Ti rivet mod buds have more sub-bass than Blon 03s (modded or unmodded), and even the easy 19-21 drivers have more sub-bass presence due to (I think) the V-shape nature of the drivers. Both of these are $2.50 drivers, and I've got more notorious sub-bass drivers in shipping. 

You won't get subwoofer style sub-bass, but certain pull out 30hz rumbles in those rare tracks. But DIY folks or manufacturers have to pull out all the stops to choose proper drivers and shell designs to really pull out sub-bass without screwing up the rest of the frequency response. Even then, from what I've seen in reviews and whatnot, most bud makers focus on more neutral "audiophile" tuning for their upper end stuff, probably due to limitations.


----------



## waynes world

F700 said:


> The LBBs is a very good pair of earbuds, deserving their reputation on this thread. The most remarkable thing I have to say about the LBBs is that they manage to make the Radiohead's album "In Rainbows" sounding enjoyable (given the pretty poor recording quality, no format-related). This fact speaks for itself in my book.



I love that album. So now I get to look forward to listening to it again once I get the LBBs's! Sweet.

And you've put the TY Hi-Z 400se firmly on my radar! I'm looking forward to any further impressions.


----------



## eridenti

You’re all making the LBBS so enticing. I’m this 🤏 close to getting them the next time there’s a big sale on Shopee lol, I might get the white variant if those are legit.


----------



## DBaldock9

F700 said:


> The LBBs have landed yesterday.
> 
> First impressions are positive. Comfortable to wear, stable fit, shells seem to be solid, well-balanced sound. Vocals, soundstage and detail retrieval ability stand out to me so far. Like this set, especially at the price point. It lacks a bit of bass impact, yes, but nothing tragic. The aforementioned firm fit I get with the LBBs makes the sound experience pretty pleasant. I praise the small form factor here. Bass-heads won't be at home with the LBBs, but here I am talking about true bass-heads, not people occasionally wishing to get the extra little oomph out of their tunes. However, I notice a small amount of glare in the upper-mids, even through a warmish source like the Calyx M. Nothing bad, just splitting hairs, but it has to be said anyway. Volume also requires to be finely adjusted, in order to find the sweet spot between the well-textured mids and the rest of the spectrum. Setting the volume too low or too high makes the magic disappear.
> 
> ...




A few years ago, I got a used set of TY Hi-Z HP650 (that I installed a 2.5mm TRRS plug on).
To me, their sound is quite warm, and the Treble seems to be recessed (Note: my hearing only goes up to around 13.5-KH).


----------



## jogawag

The ST20 is now available for pre-order on Smabat's official website.
It's on sale at half price.

https://www.smabat.com/collections/hifi耳机/products/crowdfunding-st20-st20-pro


----------



## waynes world

jogawag said:


> The ST20 is now available for pre-order on Smabat's official website.
> It's on sale at half price.
> 
> https://www.smabat.com/collections/hifi耳机/products/crowdfunding-st20-st20-pro



Interesting:

"ST-20

Warm sound: mid-frequency is full, thick, loose, bass is more shocking, treble is accurate 

ST-20 PRO

Cold sound: translucent sound, good high frequency extension, condensed sound, strong transient response, strong low frequency"


----------



## Ronion (Nov 14, 2021)

20 sounds like an LCP diaphragm from the description.

20pro sounds like a BA in the nozzle.

id take the LCP personally.  Half the price but twice as nice.


----------



## baskingshark

Ronion said:


> 20 sounds like an LCP diaphragm from the description.
> 
> 20pro sounds like a BA in the nozzle.
> 
> id take the LCP personally.  Half the price but twice as nice.



Actually has anyone here tried a earbud with a BA inside?

I mean in the IEM world, in general, a BA set would give better technicalities than a single DD set, though the BAs come with some issues such as timbre problems or even coherency issues. Different pros and cons among the driver types as such.

I do commend SMABAT for innovating here (and for their modular systems and acoustic bass designs), but I like my earbuds for their coherent tonality and accurate timbre for vocals/acoustic instruments, so not sure if a BA will rock things up too much.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Nov 14, 2021)

jogawag said:


> The ST20 is now available for pre-order on Smabat's official website.
> It's on sale at half price.
> 
> https://www.smabat.com/collections/hifi耳机/products/crowdfunding-st20-st20-pro


Awesome! Thanks for sharing. I updated the Earbuds Timeline and the *Svara - Smabat Timeline* post below


WoodyLuvr said:


> This is what I have... anything missing?
> 
> *Svara - Smabat (Shenzhen Smabat Technology Co., Ltd.) Model Timeline*
> 
> *2017 - Svara-L & M (115Ω)*​​*2018 - Svara-L 2018 (32Ω)*​*2018 - Svara Pro (64Ω; First Maze Acoustics Design)*​​*2019 - Smabat M1 Pro (32Ω; 2nd Gen 3D Maze Acoustics)*​*2019 - Smabat ST10 (Green 45Ω; 2nd Gen 3D Maze Acoustics)*​​*2020 - Smabat M2 Pro (40Ω; 1st Gen Modular Earbud)*​*2020 - Smabat ST10S (Black-Silver 40Ω; Black-Gold 150Ω; 3rd Gen Maze Acoustics)*​​*2021 - Smabat M0 (20Ω; First DIY Modular Earbud)*​*2021 - Smabat M2s Pro (40Ω; 2nd Gen Modular Earbud)*​*2021 - Smabat M3 Pro (150Ω; Maze Acoustics)*​*2021 - Smabat Proto 1.0 (16Ω; 3rd Gen DIY Modular Earbud)*​*2021 - Smabat Super One (100Ω; S-Class Earbud; Integrated Linear Channel Acoustics)*​​*COMING SOON...*​*~2021 - Smabat ST20 (50Ω; Conch Acoustics)*​*~2021 - Smabat ST20 Pro (130Ω; Conch Acoustics)*​


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Nov 14, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Actually has anyone here tried a earbud with a BA inside?
> 
> I mean in the IEM world, in general, a BA set would give better technicalities than a single DD set, though the BAs come with some issues such as timbre problems or even coherency issues. Different pros and cons among the driver types as such.
> 
> I do commend SMABAT for innovating here (and for their modular systems and acoustic bass designs), but I like my earbuds for their coherent tonality and accurate timbre for vocals/acoustic instruments, so not sure if a BA will rock things up too much.


Yes, the last one I listened to was the *2016 - DUNU Alpha 1 *_(16Ω; Hybrid Dual Dynamic and Balanced Armature Driver)_. Meh  performance... maybe it was a tad early for this type of tech. I remember the timbre was wonky sounding.


----------



## Con Par

Guys is there any thread for bluetooth earbuds?


----------



## Scuba Devils (Nov 14, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Actually has anyone here tried a earbud with a BA inside?
> 
> I mean in the IEM world, in general, a BA set would give better technicalities than a single DD set, though the BAs come with some issues such as timbre problems or even coherency issues. Different pros and cons among the driver types as such.
> 
> I do commend SMABAT for innovating here (and for their modular systems and acoustic bass designs), but I like my earbuds for their coherent tonality and accurate timbre for vocals/acoustic instruments, so not sure if a BA will rock things up too much.



Yeah I'm torn but curious on a BA sitting in a bud. Before plunging into buds, my IEM direction had shifted mostly to a preference for single DDs for the same reasons you mention regarding coherency etc. Interesting to see the innovation though for sure - is it a first?

Edit - I see now from a following post by @WoodyLuvr that it's not a first


----------



## Scuba Devils

Con Par said:


> Guys is there any thread for bluetooth earbuds?



Yes this seems to be the main thread for it - 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/going-fully-wireless-iems-too-soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/


----------



## F700 (Nov 14, 2021)

DBaldock9 said:


> A few years ago, I got a used set of TY Hi-Z HP650 (that I installed a 2.5mm TRRS plug on).
> To me, their sound is quite warm, and the Treble seems to be recessed (Note: my hearing only goes up to around 13.5-KH).


The 400se is a warm sounding pair of buds too, that’s for sure. Not for everyone. The sub-bass is eargasmic, the mids are a bit recessed, but full sounding. The treble is rolled off, but not absent, though. It’s a relaxing sounding set. The 400se are colored buds and also require a powerful source. It works for me, but yes, they are quite specific.


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> Actually has anyone here tried a earbud with a BA inside?
> 
> I mean in the IEM world, in general, a BA set would give better technicalities than a single DD set, though the BAs come with some issues such as timbre problems or even coherency issues. Different pros and cons among the driver types as such.
> 
> I do commend SMABAT for innovating here (and for their modular systems and acoustic bass designs), but I like my earbuds for their coherent tonality and accurate timbre for vocals/acoustic instruments, so not sure if a BA will rock things up too much.










Red flags for treble sensitive people since that BA is near the ehm "nozzle". 





Looks like the fit is more similar to the airpods this time.


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> Red flags for treble sensitive people since that BA is near the ehm "nozzle".
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like the fit is more similar to the airpods this time.



There are lot of IEMs with BAs nestled in the nozzle, those that are damped are usually not that shouty. But even with damping, I'm not really a fan of BA timbre, that's the thing that worries me more. Plus a hybrid may have crossover or coherency issues.

But keeping fingers crossed, let's hope they nail this BA implementation well. It's very ambitious but I think if they can pull it off, it will be something very different from the hackneyed single DD earbuds that are dime a dozen.


----------



## Ronion (Nov 14, 2021)

Ronion said:


> 20 sounds like an LCP diaphragm from the description.
> 
> 20pro sounds like a BA in the nozzle.
> 
> id take the LCP personally.  Half the price but twice as nice.


Last thing I need is another earbud, but I could resist not that LCP.  I didn’t pull the trigger last night just to hopefully prevent an impulse buy, but I’m really hoping they nail this and it looks like they’ve done their homework.  I mean an LCP timbre with a precisely tuned bass port in a shell that should fit better than Apple’s…..  just impossible to pass up.


----------



## cqtek

Here is my humble opinion on the combination of the M0 capsule with the Super Point driver.
Ever since I tested the M0, I wanted to pair the capsule with a superior driver, because I liked it so much. The result was not as good as I expected and the best combination of all turned out to be with the M2s Pro capsule and the Gold driver. There is a small comparison inside.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/sm...super-point-driver.25551/reviews#review-27274


----------



## Ronion

On a technical level, I’d totally agree.


----------



## Ronion

Ronion said:


> Last thing I need is another earbud, but I could resist not that LCP.  I didn’t pull the trigger last night just to hopefully prevent an impulse buy, but I’m really hoping they nail this and it looks like they’ve done their homework.  I mean an LCP timbre with a precisely tuned bass port in a shell that should fit better than Apple’s…..  just impossible to pass up.


Now if they could make one with the Tingo TG38 driver in it as well.  I’m surprised that bud doesn’t get more love around these parts.  It has possibly the best technicalities of any bud (yes I said any), but does require tuning to get the tonality acceptable.  It costs less than half of the LBBs, and slightly more than the X6, but sonically it’s 2 classes above the X6 and 1 class above the LBBs.  Is it the fact that it requires a cracking open of the case and adding some tuning paper and horseshoe foam?  Even if you break one in the process, you are better off with it than the others.  Anyone with the gumption should give it a go I think.  I know @furyossa has been touting its virtues for a long time.  He’s as experienced as anyone and I’m confident he knows what he’s talking about particularly after trying this bud.  You do have to break 2 eggs to make this omelet though.


----------



## chompy

cqtek said:


> Here is my humble opinion on the combination of the M0 capsule with the Super Point driver.
> Ever since I tested the M0, I wanted to pair the capsule with a superior driver, because I liked it so much. The result was not as good as I expected and the best combination of all turned out to be with the M2s Pro capsule and the Gold driver. There is a small comparison inside.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/sm...super-point-driver.25551/reviews#review-27274


Nice review, thanks. What happens if you put these Super Point drivers in M2S Pro shells? Do they improve?


----------



## Ronion (Nov 14, 2021)

Yes, but I don’t think they best the Gold drivers technically speaking.  Sorry I know you didn’t ask me.


----------



## gazzington

Tonight’s listening. Wm1z - cayin c9 - blur


----------



## Scuba Devils

gazzington said:


> Tonight’s listening. Wm1z - cayin c9 - blur



Drool 🤤 the most hard-core audio po*n! I'd say it sounds incredible.


----------



## gazzington

Scuba Devils said:


> Drool 🤤 the most hard-core audio po*n! I'd say it sounds incredible.


It does indeed. These are 400ohm blurs so they need the extra power the cayin gives


----------



## cqtek

chompy said:


> Nice review, thanks. What happens if you put these Super Point drivers in M2S Pro shells? Do they improve?


Thank you for your words.
That's a good question. I haven't done it, but I have colleagues who have and what happens is that the bass improves, as it happens with the Gold driver and if you have the ability to change the internal grilles, the peak at 2KHz can be toned down, although not eliminated.


----------



## DBaldock9

jogawag said:


> The ST20 is now available for pre-order on Smabat's official website.
> It's on sale at half price.
> 
> https://www.smabat.com/collections/hifi耳机/products/crowdfunding-st20-st20-pro



Thanks for the heads-up!

Decided to pre-order the ST20, just to see how they compare to my (non-standard, 300-Ω) ST10s earbuds.


----------



## feverfive

DBaldock9 said:


> Thanks for the heads-up!
> 
> Decided to pre-order the ST20, just to see how they compare to my (non-standard, 300-Ω) ST10s earbuds.


Do you know if there is a way to specify 4.4mm balanced termination?  The written description implies 3.5mm & 4.4mm, but no choice is offered when adding to cart.  Anyway, at this price, I am considering "pre-ordering."  LOL, I can allow myself to do if I call it that as opposed to "crowd-funding" hahahaha.


----------



## Scuba Devils

feverfive said:


> Do you know if there is a way to specify 4.4mm balanced termination?  The written description implies 3.5mm & 4.4mm, but no choice is offered when adding to cart.  Anyway, at this price, I am considering "pre-ordering."  LOL, I can allow myself to do if I call it that as opposed to "crowd-funding" hahahaha.



I was about to order also earlier but held off for the same reason regarding 4.4mm option


----------



## feverfive (Nov 14, 2021)

Scuba Devils said:


> I was about to order also earlier but held off for the same reason regarding 4.4mm option


It finally sunk-in for me that this is a crowd-funding deal, so they likely contact buyers for final details (?) as they progress.  I have been burned by such funding deals before, but for the $67 + change (including "expedited" shipping), I am taking the plunge.  Order is placed.


----------



## Scuba Devils

feverfive said:


> I just realized they are treating this as a crowd-funding deal, so they likely contact buyers for final details (?) as they progress.  I have been burned by such funding deals before, but for the $67 + change (including "expedited" shipping), I am taking the plunge.  Order is placed.



Order placed also, looks like a good one to support.


----------



## Ronion

Talking to the SMABAT guys, they seem like legit/good people.  Very pleasant long after the sale so I have no reservations now.


----------



## Scuba Devils

Ronion said:


> Talking to the SMABAT guys, they seem like legit/good people.  Very pleasant long after the sale so I have no reservations now.



Yes I've been impressed by how Smabat engage with customers and how they are very transparent about the technology and processes behind their products. That coupled with strong reputation for existing products was enough for me to support the crowd-funding... my first ever actually!


----------



## DBaldock9

feverfive said:


> Do you know if there is a way to specify 4.4mm balanced termination?  The written description implies 3.5mm & 4.4mm, but no choice is offered when adding to cart.  Anyway, at this price, I am considering "pre-ordering."  LOL, I can allow myself to do if I call it that as opposed to "crowd-funding" hahahaha.



I'm not planning to use their cable, so I didn't pay any attention to whether they offered options.
The written description also implies both 10Hz-22KHz and 10Hz-24KHz frequency response.


----------



## tendou

jogawag said:


> The ST20 is now available for pre-order on Smabat's official website.
> It's on sale at half price.
> 
> https://www.smabat.com/collections/hifi耳机/products/crowdfunding-st20-st20-pro


It is 64USD now. Is it 50USD before? Or I'm mistaken?


----------



## Ronion

Scuba Devils said:


> Yes I've been impressed by how Smabat engage with customers and how they are very transparent about the technology and processes behind their products. That coupled with strong reputation for existing products was enough for me to support the crowd-funding... my first ever actually!


Mine too.


----------



## Kumonomukou (Nov 14, 2021)

tendou said:


> It is 64USD now. Is it 50USD before? Or I'm mistaken?


Sale prices changed all the time. It was probably around $50 at some point. The USD currency exchange rate changed more than 6% last year, so there is that...

*Ps. Nevermind, I was thinking of other models, but same reason might still applied. They probably just want to raise the price for upcoming products.


----------



## LunarLight

So i just got secondhand em5 last week for $160 its the only one i ever find at my local marketplace, just noticed an oxidation? spot near the plug, i want to keep it for long term since i quite like it, will it still spread? Its been used for 6 months, do fiio offer replacement cable for it? 
Btw i’m new here, its my first encounter with this thing, i only seen it from others without anymore info


----------



## baskingshark

LunarLight said:


> So i just got secondhand em5 last week for $160 its the only one i ever find at my local marketplace, just noticed an oxidation? spot near the plug, i want to keep it for long term since i quite like it, will it still spread? Its been used for 6 months, do fiio offer replacement cable for it?
> Btw i’m new here, its my first encounter with this thing, i only seen it from others without anymore info



Honestly these greenish cable oxidation is just a superficial blemish, it won't affect the sound. But if you are particular about looks, then perhaps getting a replacement is an option.


----------



## Ironhide

Guys i am looking for earbuds with Yuin Type shell, should be easy to drive with phone and laptop. The price range is ten dollars to hundred dollars. I am currently using a six year old DIY Yuin PK2 earbuds bought from Aliexpress for 12 dollars but the cable is starting to disintegrate with age.

Have seen good reviews about Shozy  Cyngus but also complains that the cable starts oxidising and turning green within few months: https://penonaudio.com/shozy-cygnus.html

Any advise would be much appreciated.


----------



## Rick1982 (Nov 15, 2021)

2 days with LBBs, sweet sounding bud, great details retrieval (never fatiguing or harsh) and great voice reproduction (both male and female) but they seriously lack bass and stage depth. EQing I can pull up bass but it lacks impact anyway.
Despite this cons I'm liking them, especially for voice/acoustic music, jazz or other genre that don't call for a great bass slam.

I don't know if they worth their price, for sure in can't describe LBBs like a universal buds, but for some type of music they are a sweet sounding pair of buds.


----------



## Rick1982

@RikudouGoku tried your PEQ settings but with a strong decrease of the 80hz Low-Shelf, 4/5 db works for me, 15bd boost makes LBBs sound like I'm in a cave.
Fuller sound presentation with PEQ.


----------



## Buchi

I just preordered the Smabat ST20


----------



## RikudouGoku

Rick1982 said:


> @RikudouGoku tried your PEQ settings but with a strong decrease of the 80hz Low-Shelf, 4/5 db works for me, 15bd boost makes LBBs sound like I'm in a cave.
> Fuller sound presentation with PEQ.


You need a -15db preamp with my settings. And your amp also needs some power as that is pretty demanding.


----------



## Rick1982

RikudouGoku said:


> You need a -15db preamp with my settings. And your amp also needs some power as that is pretty demanding.


Yes -15db preamp done, I use Xduuo XD05 Bla with Burson V5i opamps (1W @32ohm), it's not a power issue, for me 15bd are too much. I've a X6 incoming, I hope they haven't that kind of bass, too much for me.

This is you PEQ modified to follow my tastes:
Low-shelf: 80hz, Q: 1, Gain: 5db
Low-shelf: 250hz, Q: 0.6, Gain: 2db
High-shelf: 7500hz, Q: 1, Gain: 2db
Preamp: -5db

I can't get bass impact or slam even with 15db, the bass just gets more bloated and excessive in quantity. I repeat everything for my very personal taste.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Rick1982 said:


> Yes -15db preamp done, I use Xduuo XD05 Bla with Burson V5i opamps (1W @32ohm), it's not a power issue, for me 15bd are too much. I've a X6 incoming, I hope they haven't that kind of bass, too much for me.


The sub-bass is elevated more than the X6 to compensate for the shallower fit with the LBBS. The MX500 shell at least for me, gets a deeper fit and thus more sub-bass just from that. 

At least for me, even if I push the LBBS in deeper with my EQ, the bass is still very impressive to me.


----------



## Rick1982

RikudouGoku said:


> The sub-bass is elevated more than the X6 to compensate for the shallower fit with the LBBS. The MX500 shell at least for me, gets a deeper fit and thus more sub-bass just from that.
> 
> At least for me, even if I push the LBBS in deeper with my EQ, the bass is still very impressive to me.


I'm discovering myself less bass lover than I thought... consider that I'm an happy owner and user of a pair of Stax L700 MkII.
I like very much LBBs for their sweet sounding presentation (especially regarding both male and female vocals) and great detail retrieval without being harsh or fatiguing and your PEQ (modified) gives that extra warm/body.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

To those interested, I have made some substantial updates to the *Earbud Timeline*


----------



## digititus

WoodyLuvr said:


> To those interested, I have made some substantial updates to the *Earbud Timeline*


Great work sir!


----------



## mndless

Rick1982 said:


> I'm discovering myself less bass lover than I thought... consider that I'm an happy owner and user of a pair of Stax L700 MkII.
> I like very much LBBs for their sweet sounding presentation (especially regarding both male and female vocals) and great detail retrieval without being harsh or fatiguing and your PEQ (modified) gives that extra warm/body.


Just remember that there is absolutely no shame in having a guilty pleasure set for when you really just want to roll in the deep with some thunderous bass and middling performance elsewhere. While I absolutely love resolving sets and pulling loads of info out of a good recording, there are plenty of times when I just want to luxuriate in the loving embrace of all. that. bass.


----------



## Charlyro222

WoodyLuvr said:


> To those interested, I have made some substantial updates to the *Earbud Timeline*


Excelent


----------



## Rick1982

LBBs shines with this…


----------



## Ironhide

jogawag said:


> Did Shozy Cygnus change from 16 ohms to 32 ohms in the last re-release?





ClieOS said:


> Actually 'BK' is the original name used by Shozy when the earbuds was sold in China, especially during the pre-order stage. BK is short for Black, as its Chinese name is 大黑 (big black). Shozy used the 'Stardust' name when they started selling it in the international market, which I presumed is because it is more catchy, though it is already a bit late since most have known it as BK.





WoodyLuvr said:


> *2016 - Shozy Cygnus (18Ω)
> 2021 - Shozy Cygnus II (32Ω)*



Any reviews or impressions of 2021 Shozy Cygnus II (32Ω) vs 2016 Cygnus (18Ω) ? I have searched the entire forum and general Google search since the launch of the new 32Ω Cygnus and nobody has commented/reviewed it till now.


----------



## MelodyMood

Nool said:


> Ry4s+ 32ohm had similar staging and resolution, just worse tuning than x6/rw9. They might use the same 15.5mm 32ohm dynamic drivers.
> 
> The stem on a mx500 shell acts as a bass vent. Take any mx500 earbud you have, seal the stem with some putty, and you'll hear less bass. Sealing the mx500 stem with an mmcx jack is probably what messed up the tuning on the ry4s+.


I found RY4S+ good overall. I had X6 also but it did not last and Mic is no longer working so cannot use that. Is there any MMCX Version of RW9 where I can buy only Earbud as I already have MMCX cables so do not want to spend on them. Also, any other MMCX Earbud which is really good. I am also considering SMABAT M2S Pro but that is not in stock as of now but anything else is also there? Can anyone pls suggest? I am looking for lots of details and clarity with smooth sound and good Bass and some sub-bass feel too. But not too expensive.


----------



## sutosuto

For those order Smabat ST20, gold is not the final color and it could be green based on Smabat. Below is their response.

"Regarding the green option, the final result of the headset may be green, but it is not certain. This requires everyone to vote for it. We will use the most selected color as the final color of the headset."

And here is their answer for plug type

"About the 4.4 connector, we are giving away, follow our fb dynamics"


----------



## feverfive

I don't (and never will) do Facebook, so I'll have to count on you good gents to update this thread, Re: what smabat is doing with ST20 development.


----------



## eridenti

assassin10000 said:


> Just am FYI, the white and mic versions are also the newer LBBS driver/tunings. I ordered a 2021 mic version for modding as it was cheaper, and it was better sounding than the 2020 white I already have.
> 
> I even checked resistance to see if the mic cable had higher resistance on one side than the other, as some crap cables do. It does not. No channel imbalance either.
> 
> I've had the original 2019 & older (warm tuning), the 2020 (white) and have 2x of the 2021 (w/mic).


The only mic option I see on Shopee doesn't have an S. The black with mic version is also as cheap as the black no mic version. Should the 2021 mic version mention the S?


----------



## dissociativity

could anyone potentially compile a list of 0.78mm connector earbuds including DIY models from stores? I've got a rose masya and that's it, I find the fit to be surprisingly good over the ear, but didn't really like how the Smabat M2 pro fit, and I've not got as many mmcx cables as 0.78mm


----------



## Scuba Devils

Newbsound 32pro is in the house 😎


----------



## F700

Scuba Devils said:


> Newbsound 32pro is in the house 😎


Enjoy it mate. 

Mine is underway. I hope the 32pro will make my LBBs and T-400 redundant soundwise. By that I mean the 32pro offering a more tactile sub-bass than the LBBs, while keeping the great mids and clarity. Comfortwise, I also prefer MX500 shells. 

Waiting for your early impressions.


----------



## Scuba Devils (Nov 16, 2021)

Ok so the high praise for the 32pro is absolutely justified. I'm throwing some complex and challenging stuff at them - no issues in handling various frequencies; wonderfully balanced, smooth and enough treble to bring out details in their wide soundstage but nothing harsh yet detected. They pack a punch with techno (think pounding kick drums, driving synths) and sing sweetly with ambient, two crucial tests for me to determine how they perform from low, mid and highs.

I need to a/b to other buds but I'm confident to say these are the best bang for buck so far in my collection, incredible for sub $100. Also, I usually run buds from my NW-WM1A but currently charging so the ZX300 stepping in.

Those of you have them on the way, I've no doubt you're going to love them too!

*Caveat*: still in honeymoon phase and I typically possess happy ears during that window, further scrutiny tends to come to the fore after a few days but I try look for faults now in early analysis and I'm struggling to find any...


----------



## n00b (Nov 16, 2021)

Glad you like them. I actually went ahead and purchased a 4.4mm pair just like yours for myself after Bisoy let me sample the 3.5mm, happy to support a maker like that! I'll say they're my favorite transducer period right now and has really challenged my preconceptions of price : performance in this hobby. I already knew earbuds overdeliver value but having gone from X6 -> Bell Ti Plus and a few TOTLs and bracket-defining picks along the way, I can say for myself that price doesn't necessarily forecast enjoyment. BUT, investing money if you don't have access to loaner/demo units to figure out the preferences that work for you (in terms of sound, comfort, fit, ease of use, etc) is still necessary. Would I be happy if I just spent $80 on a 32pro and be done? Probably, but would I have gotten there without spending way more by buying and selling off other extremely well reviewed buds? Probably not. Even though the 32pros are my personal favorite they're not something I can recommend to everyone without auditioning (and hopefully i made that clear in my review here) because I've finally come to realize how important preferences are in this entirely subjective hobby haha


----------



## assassin10000

eridenti said:


> The only mic option I see on Shopee doesn't have an S. The black with mic version is also as cheap as the black no mic version. Should the 2021 mic version mention the S?


No idea. You'll need to message the seller and ask if new or old stock. Maybe a pic of the label will help, the 1st 2 digits of the serial number are year made iirc.


----------



## Scuba Devils

n00b said:


> Glad you like them. I actually went ahead and purchased a 4.4mm pair just like yours for myself after Bisoy let me sample the 3.5mm, happy to support a maker like that! I'll say they're my favorite transducer period right now and has really challenged my preconceptions of price : performance in this hobby. I already knew earbuds overdeliver value but having gone from X6 -> Bell Ti Plus and a few TOTLs and bracket-defining picks along the way, I can say for myself that price doesn't necessarily forecast enjoyment. BUT, investing money if you don't have access to loaner/demo units to figure out the preferences that work for you (in terms of sound, comfort, fit, ease of use, etc) is still necessary. Would I be happy if I just spent $80 on a 32pro and be done? Probably, but would I have gotten there without spending way more by buying and selling off other extremely well reviewed buds? Probably not. Even though the 32pros are my personal favorite they're not something I can recommend to everyone without auditioning (and hopefully i made that clear in my review here) because I've finally come to realize how important preferences are in this entirely subjective hobby haha




Yeah totally agree, very hard to know what you want and determine fit etc without actually buying a few. From a fit perspective, pk actually best for me, mx start to slip out after a while - not a big deal as I can readjust. The best fit though and probably the only bud I could go walking with is the BS1 Official. 

I do find some genres work better with different buds and plan to start documenting which are most suited! 

Chaconne should be with me in the next couple of days - would have been today except they fell victim to a customs interception which required me to provide a receipt for purchase, I'll no doubt be hit with a bill shortly...


----------



## feverfive

My *Penon BS1 Official* buds were delivered this morning.  Nice packaging; apparently very solid build quality (time will tell); cable is nice and supple.  I got the 2.5mm balanced termination so I can use adapters even though I own zero 2.5mm sources.

My point of reference is tiny as I've only ever listened to those old school buds Apple packed with the OG iPods.  More recently, only have spent time with Yincrow X6 and only a few listens with Qian39.

BS1 first impressions are a very pleasant, inoffensive sonic presentation.  They fit me perfectly with the stock (and out-of-the-box fitted) red & blue full foams.  I'll be trying these with a tv show or something tonight with my laptop.

****An aside**** this ddHiFi adapter (rhodium plated 2.5mm female to 4.4mm male) is noisy AF.  I have *never* heard crackling/static-sound when turning a 4.4mm plug in my WM1A before using this adapter.  Not impressed.


----------



## Scuba Devils

feverfive said:


> My *Penon BS1 Official* buds were delivered this morning.  Nice packaging; apparently very solid build quality (time will tell); cable is nice and supple.  I got the 2.5mm balanced termination so I can use adapters even though I own zero 2.5mm sources.
> 
> My point of reference is tiny as I've only ever listened to those old school buds Apple packed with the OG iPods.  More recently, only have spent time with Yincrow X6 and only a few listens with Qian39.
> 
> ...



Shame with the DDhifi adapter, I have the same one and no issue with it. Did you contact them? I'm sure they will replace.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Scuba Devils said:


> Shame with the DDhifi adapter, I have the same one and no issue with it. Did you contact them? I'm sure they will replace.


Concur, my ddHiFi DD DJ35A has performed flawlessly for years now. ddHiFi will replace for you.


----------



## digititus

Scuba Devils said:


> Ok so the high praise for the 32pro is absolutely justified. I'm throwing some complex and challenging stuff at them - no issues in handling various frequencies; wonderfully balanced, smooth and enough treble to bring out details in their wide soundstage but nothing harsh yet detected. They pack a punch with techno (think pounding kick drums, driving synths) and sing sweetly with ambient, two crucial tests for me to determine how they perform from low, mid and highs.
> 
> I need to a/b to other buds but I'm confident to say these are the best bang for buck so far in my collection, incredible for sub $100. Also, I usually run buds from my NW-WM1A but currently charging so the ZX300 stepping in.
> 
> ...


Icelandic Dub Techno will always be a good test for any buds


----------



## RikudouGoku

feverfive said:


> My *Penon BS1 Official* buds were delivered this morning.  Nice packaging; apparently very solid build quality (time will tell); cable is nice and supple.  I got the 2.5mm balanced termination so I can use adapters even though I own zero 2.5mm sources.
> 
> My point of reference is tiny as I've only ever listened to those old school buds Apple packed with the OG iPods.  More recently, only have spent time with Yincrow X6 and only a few listens with Qian39.
> 
> ...


Impressions on the 39? Another month before I get mine lol.


----------



## Scuba Devils

digititus said:


> Icelandic Dub Techno will always be a good test for any buds



Indeed, a fantastic album and ideal for testing.


----------



## feverfive

Scuba Devils said:


> Indeed, a fantastic album and ideal for testing.


I love me some Yagya...


@RikudouGoku I'll actually need to retrieve the Qian39's from a drawer at my office, LOL.  I've only used them a few times; nothing really stood out, good or bad relative to the few other buds I've heard.  I only got them to try and figure out what types of shells will fit me.


----------



## feverfive

Scuba Devils said:


> Shame with the DDhifi adapter, I have the same one and no issue with it. Did you contact them? I'm sure they will replace.


I also got a rhodium plated 3.5mm version still in its shrink wrapped box.  I'll try that straight to my laptop 3.5mm out tonight to see if it exhibits the same crackling/static sound.  I also want to try the 4.4mm one with my L&P W2 just to ensure it isn't related solely to my WM1A (I'd be shocked if it's isolated to the WM1A because I have had a bunch of high quality 4.4mm plugs in its output with absolutely zero issues).


----------



## Scuba Devils

On the dub techno front, I found it got a bit boring in recent years - or maybe fairer to say I got bored of it. That Yagya album took it up a notch and actually had quite a 90's vibe to it, fantastic album and sits together like an excellent DJ set. The following was recommended in a Facebook group which is all-things electronic music, well worth joining if on Facebook and that's your thing - it can be hard on the wallet though too. Anyway, I'm enjoying it so far and a nice revisit to dub techno, maybe I just needed a break! 



Spoiler: Hover - Ignition


----------



## Narayan23

RikudouGoku said:


> Impressions on the 39? Another month before I get mine lol.


Mine are somewhere in a drawer too, as Feverfive has said, not a memorable earbud regarding sound quality, but its small form factor make it excellent for in-bed listening, you can lie on your side with them no problem, I used them mainly for podcasts / audiobooks /radio since for music I found them sub par.


----------



## Nool (Nov 16, 2021)

MelodyMood said:


> I found RY4S+ good overall. I had X6 also but it did not last and Mic is no longer working so cannot use that. Is there any MMCX Version of RW9 where I can buy only Earbud as I already have MMCX cables so do not want to spend on them. Also, any other MMCX Earbud which is really good. I am also considering SMABAT M2S Pro but that is not in stock as of now but anything else is also there? Can anyone pls suggest? I am looking for lots of details and clarity with smooth sound and good Bass and some sub-bass feel too. But not too expensive.


If you're ok with TWS, the soundpeats trueair2 is great for $30, very similar tuning to the RW9 but much cleaner presentation overall due to larger soundstage & cleaner imaging. Similar overall resolution though. Make sure you use them with foams.

After a quick a/b, the rw9 has slightly more bass/subbass. Mids on the rw9 are a little cleaner too. Staging/imaging is definitely better on the trueair2 though, which helps bass have more presence, even if there's slightly less quantity.. If that makes sense.

From what I've read the 150ohm smabat or Yincrow RW2000 is probably the best you'll get.


----------



## imackler

Any go to recommendation for classical music? I listen to mostly strings, especially quartets, but enjoy symphonies as well. I've been an iem guy mostly, over-ear headphones sometimes, but the current office situation is not ideal for either... Thanks all!


----------



## thamasha69

I'm so glad to see the well deserved love for the Newbsound 32pro. When I approached Bisoy Siosan a couple months ago inquiring about buds, I had no idea what exactly I wanted. We simply talked about sonic preferences and gear I had and I decided to go for it. I was absolutely dumbfounded when I first listened. And these still wow me every time I listen. 

I also got a pair of Newbsound Vido and paired with a simple lightning to usb-c adapter and Avani dongle, I have the most portable and sweet sounding travel companion.


----------



## Ronion

imackler said:


> Any go to recommendation for classical music? I listen to mostly strings, especially quartets, but enjoy symphonies as well. I've been an iem guy mostly, over-ear headphones sometimes, but the current office situation is not ideal for either... Thanks all!


If you are not afraid to take the driver off of a bud and place tuning paper and tuning foam on the inside of an earbud, I’d say the Tingo TG-38s.  It has a huge soundstage.  Possibly the biggest of any earbud and also has the most detailed presentation I’ve heard.  For classical music (I’m a huge fan) it probably can’t be beat.  The driver is just exceptional.  Especially for strings, horns and pianos.  Really any natural instrument in a real space.  Too bad the one I got was not tuned at all.  I’m not sure if that’s always the case or not, but of all the touted earbuds in this thread recently, it’s a different class, but doesn’t cost a fortune.  You do have to be gentle/careful opening the driver, but once that’s done you’ve got an amazing earbud.  Add some white tuning paper to the driver and horseshoe foam and you’ve really got something.  Only a couple of my buds compete and they are all an order of magnitude more expensive.  Nothing under $100 that I’ve heard really compares unless you are listening to electronic music that requires big bass output.  Maybe these could be tuned to do that as well.  I just did the first thing that came to mind based on what I’ve read about this bud and what I heard While listening.  It worked really well, but I’m sure with patience it could be better.  I’m just enjoying it so much that I don’t care to attempt to perfect it.  The driver is exceptional and that’s the most important thing really.  I like the cable too.  It’s not fancy, but it’s very functional.


----------



## mndless

Any recommendations for reasonably priced MMCX equipped earbuds? I prefer a neutral tuning with bass boost, but I have never been so bereft of graphs when looking for earphones before.


----------



## Ronion

Earbud graphs won’t tell you as much as any other headphone graph.  Fit it a bigger variable.  That said, perhaps The SMABAT M2s pro with the 150Ohm driver.


----------



## mndless

Ronion said:


> Earbud graphs won’t tell you as much as any other headphone graph.  Fit it a bigger variable.  That said, perhaps The SMABAT M2s pro with the 150Ohm driver.


I was considering the M3 because they're a bit easier to drive, and as long as it is possible to open the case without destroying them, I can desolder and resolder drivers without a huge amount of issue. Given the rarity of graphs for 15.4mm drivers, though, this is not terribly likely.


----------



## BotByte

mndless said:


> I was considering the M3 because they're a bit easier to drive, and as long as it is possible to open the case without destroying them, I can desolder and resolder drivers without a huge amount of issue. Given the rarity of graphs for 15.4mm drivers, though, this is not terribly likely.


I've heard the M2s Pro stock is neutral with bass boost, and they use connectors so no need for soldering. Simply plug things in and go. 

That said, if you're up for soldering I can recommend making your own. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/ 

If you want to keep things easy to drive, there's a ton of 32ohm and 64ohm drivers on the market for quite cheap ($4-5 a pair) and provide great sound. You have your choice of shells with MMCX in metal shells ($5-20), but MX500 shells with a basic MMCX mod (which can be bought prebuild or made easily, and some stores sell kits) always kills bass output--you'll need to rivet mod or open up the fake vent to bring back the bass.


----------



## digititus

mndless said:


> Any recommendations for reasonably priced MMCX equipped earbuds? I prefer a neutral tuning with bass boost, but I have never been so bereft of graphs when looking for earphones before.


Yincrow RW-1000 Bass Edition are neutralish with nice bass. Good build and comfort too.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Nov 17, 2021)

digititus said:


> Yincrow RW-1000 Bass Edition are neutralish with nice bass. Good build and comfort too.


Great head/soundstage as well... nearing that on the *Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis* or the *Rose Technics Maria II*. I liked the Yincrow RW-1000 Bass Version and the RW-2000 they just were very fatiguing for me unfortunately... something was hard, harsh, and sibilant in the upper mid-range and lower treble to my ears. I hope the new RW-3000 has solved this.


----------



## Scuba Devils (Nov 17, 2021)

Chaconne landed, my last bud purchase for the foreseeable if I want to remain married... certainly looks and feels beautiful. Listening impressions to follow.


----------



## baskingshark

Scuba Devils said:


> Chaconne landed, my last bud purchase for the foreseeable if I want to remain married... certainly looks and feels beautiful. Listening impressions to follow.



Bro, I feel you.

The consolation is that earbuds are way easier to conceal and sneak in the house than full sized headphones.

Pro tip: buy earbuds/IEMs that are generic black or silver looking, the other half will be none the wiser (hide them in a bunch in the drawer). Do not buy some exotic coloured shell (eg hospital green BLON BL-05s) or some unique shell (eg BLON MINI), that will let the cat out of the bag.


----------



## Scuba Devils

baskingshark said:


> Bro, I feel you.
> 
> The consolation is that earbuds are way easier to conceal and sneak in the house than full sized headphones.
> 
> Pro tip: buy earbuds/IEMs that are generic black or silver looking, the other half will be none the wiser (hide them in a bunch in the drawer). Do not buy some exotic coloured shell (eg hospital green BLON BL-05s) or some unique shell (eg BLON MINI), that will let the cat out of the bag.



Funny enough, my wife doesn't really notice the actual items - they mostly arrive also while she is at work, I work from home 90% of the time, IEMs and buds seem to fly under her radar! The depletion of account balance is the tricky bit...


----------



## RikudouGoku

imackler said:


> Any go to recommendation for classical music? I listen to mostly strings, especially quartets, but enjoy symphonies as well. I've been an iem guy mostly, over-ear headphones sometimes, but the current office situation is not ideal for either... Thanks all!


K´s LBBS nr 1, classic master @tgx78 will also agree.


----------



## Ronion

mndless said:


> I was considering the M3 because they're a bit easier to drive, and as long as it is possible to open the case without destroying them, I can desolder and resolder drivers without a huge amount of issue. Given the rarity of graphs for 15.4mm drivers, though, this is not terribly likely.


I haven’t heard that one, but I’d bet it’s great judging by the M2s pro with the driver the M3 comes with.  The m3 is actually cheaper when you factor in the driver.  Let us know your impressions if you go that route.  The 150 Ohm titanium driver is a great one.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Nov 17, 2021)

Scuba Devils said:


> Chaconne landed, my last bud purchase for the foreseeable if I want to remain married... certainly looks and feels beautiful. Listening impressions to follow.


Good luck with affixing the ear cushions/covers/pads/foams! You'll need it!🤪


----------



## Scuba Devils

WoodyLuvr said:


> Good luck with affixing the ear cushions/covers/pads/foams! You'll need it!🤪



Yep, I ripped one on first attempt... lucky I bought that lifetime supply on AE a few weeks ago! All good now - I'm on my 2nd honeymoon in two days, ran off with another beauty... very different use cases though - I can see Chaconne being a specialist bud, certainly not an all-rounder like the 32pro... potentially the Traillii to my IE900. I've tried some ambient, modern classical and soundtrack so far and needless to say, I'm blown away - I cannot believe the timbre for acoustic instruments in particular. I was listening to The Four Seasons Recomposed by Max Richter earlier and I honestly don't think I've heard it sound as good on any IEM. Now on to some ambient, one of my favourite albums of the genre.


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

RikudouGoku said:


> K´s LBBS nr 1, classic master


Isn't it the Chaconne @RikudouGoku?


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

Scuba Devils said:


> I cannot believe the timbre for acoustic instruments in particular.


How would you compared them to the LBBs for the same genres you mentioned? Since it is my first earbud after 20 years I decided to try the LBBs first but I was also considering the Chaconne. Thanks!


----------



## Scuba Devils

boredbuyingstuff said:


> How would you compared them to the LBBs for the same genres you mentioned? Since it is my first earbud after 20 years I decided to try the LBBs first but I was also considering the Chaconne. Thanks!



I'll have a listen to both tonight and compare but my initial sense is the Chaconne has a much fuller/richer sound vs LBBs. It really is quite incredible how they present acoustics - shivers going through me earlier listening.


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

Scuba Devils said:


> my initial sense is the Chaconne has a much fuller/richer sound vs LBBs.


I'll wait for your comparison anxiously. My impression from reviews and opinions I gathered was that the LBBs having a fuller bass would be more engaging / musical. Let us know your impressions when you can.


----------



## Chessnaudio

RikudouGoku said:


> K´s LBBS nr 1, classic master @tgx78 will also agree.


My cantorial tracks especially with orchestral accompaniment shine with the LBBS. I only see marginal (but noticeable) improvement with my Moondrop Liebesleid. LBBS is the best bang for the buck


----------



## RikudouGoku

boredbuyingstuff said:


> Isn't it the Chaconne @RikudouGoku?


Hard to rec due to fit and price, but if those are fine then yes Chaconne is better.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Nov 17, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Hard to rec due to fit and price, but if those are fine then yes Chaconne is better.


Most definitely concur. The Chaconne has critical fit issues for some people. The price is a tad high in comparison. And is indeed a specialist earbud as *@Scuba Devils*  has said. A one or two trick pony only, so not an all rounder by any means. An amazing sounding earbud nonetheless.


----------



## Scuba Devils

The Chaconne fit but like mx shells, work their way out and I need to readjust. I saw a post on Facebook earlier with double foam - a donut with a regular foam over it. I decided to try and after some stressful manipulation of the foam, managed to do it! Makes a big difference and I'm not noting any negative impact to sound.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Nov 17, 2021)

Scuba Devils said:


> The Chaconne fit but like mx shells, work their way out and I need to readjust. I saw a post on Facebook earlier with double foam - a donut with a regular foam over it. I decided to try and after some stressful manipulation of the foam, managed to do it! Makes a big difference and I'm not noting any negative impact to sound.


Using a silicon ring with a full foam over that might be easier and it may provide you an even tighter (wider diameter) & firmer fit.






Foams go over these rings quite nicely and much more easily than over a donut foam.


----------



## Scuba Devils

WoodyLuvr said:


> Using a silicon ring with a full foam over that might be easier and it may provide you an even tighter (wider diameter) & firmer fit.



Thanks, yes I'll have to pick some of them up - I'll check AE!


----------



## Scuba Devils

@WoodyLuvr - these do the trick?

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mL2FZx4


----------



## F700

WoodyLuvr said:


> Using a silicon ring with a full foam over that might be easier and it may provide you an even tighter (wider diameter) & firmer fit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks, this is really helpful! Just bought a set of 10 pairs on AE.


----------



## Scuba Devils

F700 said:


> Thanks, this is really helpful! Just bought a set of 10 pairs on AE.



Which did you buy? Ten pairs of the one I linked to cost €39!


----------



## F700 (Nov 17, 2021)

Scuba Devils said:


> Which did you buy? Ten pairs of the one I linked to cost €39!


Whaou!!!

I bought them here:
CHF 4.19  Réduction de 30％ | 10 pièces plat écouteurs silicone caoutchouc anneau étui Flexible écouteur coque couverture pour 15mm-16mm écouteurs
https://a.aliexpress.com/_msOWcu6

USD 7.- (shipping incl.)


----------



## Charlyro222

Scuba Devils said:


> The Chaconne fit but like mx shells, work their way out and I need to readjust. I saw a post on Facebook earlier with double foam - a donut with a regular foam over it. I decided to try and after some stressful manipulation of the foam, managed to do it! Makes a big difference and I'm not noting any negative impact to sound.


How do they compare against Blurs?


----------



## Scuba Devils

Charlyro222 said:


> How do they compare against Blurs?



Very different in that certainly the pk32 is much more energetic/lively, much more bass and like the 32pro, more of an all-rounder. I really don't see me listening to Chaconne much outside of a small few genres... but for those genres, I expect it will be hard to beat.


----------



## Ronion

Scuba Devils said:


> The Chaconne fit but like mx shells, work their way out and I need to readjust. I saw a post on Facebook earlier with double foam - a donut with a regular foam over it. I decided to try and after some stressful manipulation of the foam, managed to do it! Makes a big difference and I'm not noting any negative impact to sound.


showoff!  Every talks about how hard it is to fit one foam on this and you go and do two….  Lol.  Just kidding brother.


----------



## Scuba Devils

Ronion said:


> showoff!  Every talks about how hard it is to fit one foam on this and you go and do two….  Lol.  Just kidding brother.



Haha 😁 it was quite a procedure, felt like I was performing surgery!


----------



## hotsnacx (Nov 17, 2021)

just received my lbbs after a month in customs. Nice packaging with like 6 sets of foams and hooks. I expected a plastic baggy tbh ha.

My Ry4s and brown cable just has some great imaging capabilities and quickly became my reference. I think I should get a x6. I don’t think m2s pro or lbbs have specifically as good as imaging, or soundstage as the ry4s but as much as those characteristics are dialed back in lbbs, they exchange for more low end and balanced which makes me want to keep listening to lbbs. I can’t wait to receive my asura 3.0fe and compare.

Now I’m really going to try and apply double foams and budloks to my lbbs as the upper mids are a little thin for my taste but these could easily be an edc for me right now.

Edit. Budloks and foams aren’t my friends.


----------



## Ronion

The Ry4s (I believe it is a “Plus” model) is another that @furyossa recommends (or at least used to).  His take on the Tingo-38s was so spot on.  It’s a standout in the technicalities department.  I know neither the LBBs or M2s pro are in its class but they are both tuned better out of the box.  You’re making want to try the Ry4s


----------



## cqtek

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but could this lucky bag be the EBX21?

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005003538996727.html


----------



## Charlyro222

Just received, this night I´ll give you my early impressions without burn in.


----------



## Scuba Devils

Listening to 32pro right now myself, a brilliantly tuned set of buds that work with any genre I throw at them... excellent all-rounder.


----------



## n00b (Nov 18, 2021)

one thing I've been thinking about with the 32pro, since I got it in 3.5mm to test. Unbalanced isn't my usual go-to, I opt for 4.4mm since I fell for the Sony scam (half sarcasm) and got 4.4mm on all my cables and DAPs now.

But with the 32pro, the tuning has the bass full and vocals and detail clear and tastefully forward. So even on single ended, I'm finding myself listening at like, 18/120 on my WM1A. I simply don't need to turn up the volume to hear what I want in a song, which is usually bassline melody and female vocals. That makes the added power potential of balanced connections less valuable to me, while limiting the types of sources I can use them with compared to 3.5mm single ended.

I think with other gear, earbuds especially since many have anemic bass, I was cranking up volume to hear a song feel more 'full.' Now I'm trying to get most of my gear to match that 32pro and Sony house sound which is relaxed, full, detailed but smooth, and then I can listen pretty quietly. Does anyone else have a similar experience?


----------



## RikudouGoku

cqtek said:


> I don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but could this lucky bag be the EBX21?
> 
> https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005003538996727.html


Yes, 100% confirmed by them.


----------



## waynes world

Scuba Devils said:


> Listening to 32pro right now myself, a brilliantly tuned set of buds that work with any genre I throw at them... excellent all-rounder.





n00b said:


> one thing I've been thinking about with the 32pro, since I got it in 3.5mm to test. Unbalanced isn't my usual go-to, I opt for 4.4mm since I fell for the Sony scam (half sarcasm) and got 4.4mm on all my cables and DAPs now.
> 
> But with the 32pro, the tuning has the bass full and vocals and detail clear and tastefully forward. So even on single ended, I'm finding myself listening at like, 18/120 on my WM1A. I simply don't need to turn up the volume to hear what I want in a song, which is usually bassline melody and female vocals. That makes the added power potential of balanced connections less valuable to me, while limiting the types of sources I can use them with compared to 3.5mm single ended.
> 
> I think with other gear, earbuds especially since many have anemic bass, I was cranking up volume to hear a song feel more 'full.' Now I'm trying to get most of my gear to match that 32pro and Sony house sound which is relaxed, full, detailed but smooth, and then I can listen pretty quietly. Does anyone else have a similar experience?



You guys are killing me lol!


----------



## teamdbatz

n00b said:


> one thing I've been thinking about with the 32pro, since I got it in 3.5mm to test. Unbalanced isn't my usual go-to, I opt for 4.4mm since I fell for the Sony scam (half sarcasm) and got 4.4mm on all my cables and DAPs now.
> 
> But with the 32pro, the tuning has the bass full and vocals and detail clear and tastefully forward. So even on single ended, I'm finding myself listening at like, 18/120 on my WM1A. I simply don't need to turn up the volume to hear what I want in a song, which is usually bassline melody and female vocals. That makes the added power potential of balanced connections less valuable to me, while limiting the types of sources I can use them with compared to 3.5mm single ended.
> 
> I think with other gear, earbuds especially since many have anemic bass, I was cranking up volume to hear a song feel more 'full.' Now I'm trying to get most of my gear to match that 32pro and Sony house sound which is relaxed, full, detailed but smooth, and then I can listen pretty quietly. Does anyone else have a similar experience?


i got the best of wm1a thru its balanced output even with mr walkman mod in my experience anyway. the difference is very audible between the two.


----------



## n00b

teamdbatz said:


> i got the best of wm1a thru its balanced output even with mr walkman mod in my experience anyway. the difference is very audible between the two.


if i listen pretty closely, i can tell the difference between balanced modded wm1a vs unbalanced modded AW-55 for example. but i think in my listening habits it's usually while im doing something else or walking around, so im rarely ever in a critical listening mood. usually just want something relaxing and enjoyable, and that's how i ended up with the sound signature i like most right now (which i think 32pro does well). I guess i didnt mean to make this too much of a discussion about bal vs SE, moreso about listening volume with buds for different sound signatures and what people here prefer


----------



## Charlyro222

Scuba Devils said:


> Listening to 32pro right now myself, a brilliantly tuned set of buds that work with any genre I throw at them... excellent all-rounder.


Totally agree with you on first listening


----------



## n00b

i was listening to some disney princess soundtracks yesterday (lol) and noticed some female vocals can feel a bit too husky or chesty with the warmth of the 32pro and it took away from the song. specifically jodi benson's "part of your world," it got in the way of some of the breathiness and emotion in the more quiet passages. but that's what the LBBS and chaconne are for


----------



## Charlyro222 (Nov 18, 2021)

n00b said:


> i was listening to some disney princess soundtracks yesterday (lol) and noticed some female vocals can feel a bit too husky or chesty with the warmth of the 32pro and it took away from the song. specifically jodi benson's "part of your world," it got in the way of some of the breathiness and emotion in the more quiet passages. but that's what the LBBS and chaconne are for


Did you try any Blur model, some of them has wide soundstage and beautiful female vocals.


----------



## Scuba Devils

Uh oh - my EM5 have a fault! There is a rattle coming from the right ear from kick drums, tried a few tracks and quite obvious, not there when I switched to 32pro. I bought from Amazon so I've initiated the return process...


----------



## gazzington

Scuba Devils said:


> Uh oh - my EM5 have a fault! There is a rattle coming from the right ear from kick drums, tried a few tracks and quite obvious, not there when I switched to 32pro. I bought from Amazon so I've initiated the return process...


Oh no, are you swapping them for another em5 set?


----------



## Scuba Devils

gazzington said:


> Oh no, are you swapping them for another em5 set?



They were bought from a marketplace seller on Amazon so I'll see what options they provide. I did read about QC issues in this thread but thought resolved, I know faults happen but it does cause me concern.


----------



## gazzington

Scuba Devils said:


> They were bought from a marketplace seller on Amazon so I'll see what options they provide. I did read about QC issues in this thread but thought resolved, I know faults happen but it does cause me concern.


Yeah I’d heard off some Qc problems but thought that was sorted now, I got mine from advanced mp3


----------



## Scuba Devils

gazzington said:


> Yeah I’d heard off some Qc problems but thought that was sorted now, I got mine from advanced mp3



I'm not sure if the issue developed or was there from the start - I was trying some dub techno, deep kickdrum and it was clearly noticeable - like when there's a rip in a speaker woofer. I've pretty much only been listening to chilled music on EM5.


----------



## chavez

Scuba Devils said:


> I'm not sure if the issue developed or was there from the start - I was trying some dub techno, deep kickdrum and it was clearly noticeable - like when there's a rip in a speaker woofer. I've pretty much only been listening to chilled music on EM5.


It could be a peace of hair/lint stuck on the driver. Try to blow it of.


----------



## Ronion

Yeah, I have to say it, but my X6 had a rattle and I did things all not mention again to it, and it works flawlessly after that.


----------



## Scuba Devils

chavez said:


> It could be a peace of hair/lint stuck on the driver. Try to blow it of.



Tried that but no luck, thanks for the suggestion. 

Weirdly though, I notice it stops if I reposition the bud in my ear - I don't see how it's position to create a rattle from low end though? It's like a vibration, very obvious. Although, even while I'm typing now - it has come back again since I adjusted.


----------



## gazzington

I’m not an expert but do earbuds get driver flex?


----------



## n00b

i think they can, at least in some shells if i push hard enough against my ear/skin i can hear a crinkling sound and feel a suction like effect, then bass response is reduced. some suction (i'll leave that to your imagination) or pressing them again resolve it


----------



## furyossa

n00b said:


> i think they can, at least in some shells if i push hard enough against my ear/skin i can hear a crinkling sound and feel a suction like effect, then bass response is reduced. some suction (i'll leave that to your imagination) or pressing them again resolve it


Have you checked the PM


----------



## Stuff Jones (Nov 18, 2021)

I'm considering venturing back into the earbud realm. I had the VE Zen back in 2016 and enjoyed them, but at that  point my audiophile budget wasn't enough to justify my limited use of them. Anyway, much of my listening is acoustic music, especially jazz and classical, and the descriptions of the Chaconne and their great timbre and natural sound have captivated my imagination. Those adjectives are what I most care about in music reproduction, followed by a realistic sense of space. However descriptions of the Chaconne's bass concern me that even for acoustic music they may be wanting. Will they convey the deep textured thud of an upright bass, for example? Also, is there anything Chaconne lite like,  perhaps with a touch more bass, that might be a safer bet to dip my toes back in the earbud waters?


----------



## n00b

Stuff Jones said:


> Considering venturing back into the earbud realm. I had the VE Zen back in 2016 and enjoyed them, but at that  point my audiophile budget wasn't enough to justify my limited use of them. Anyway, much of my listening is acoustic music, especially jazz and classical, and the descriptions of the Chaconne and their great timbre and natural sound have captivated my imagination. Those adjectives are what I most care about in music reproduction, followed by a realistic sense of space. However descriptions of the Chaconne's bass concern me that even for acoustic music they may be wanting. Will they convey the deep textured thud of an upright bass, for example? Also, is there anything Chaconne lite like,  perhaps with a touch more bass, that might be a safer bet to dip my toes back in the earbud waters?


K's LBBs with HieGi full foam. it's been discussed in this thread heavily. if you get it on aliexpress make sure it's Bell LBS and not the ones with microphones


----------



## Stuff Jones

n00b said:


> K's LBBs with HieGi full foam. it's been discussed in this thread heavily. if you get it on aliexpress make sure it's Bell LBS and not the ones with microphones



I saw a review calling them neutral-bright. Not so?  Or does full foam tame them?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Stuff Jones said:


> I saw a review calling them neutral-bright. Not so?  Or does full foam tame them?


Neutral bright is what you want for classical lol.

Full foams is what I use on them.


----------



## Ronion

You can easily make the, neutral-bright to neutral-warm just by changing the foams.  Very nicely tuned buds that tend to fit a lot, but not all people well.


----------



## Stuff Jones

RikudouGoku said:


> Neutral bright is what you want for classical lol.
> 
> Full foams is what I use on them.



Yes, but I listen to more jazz than classical  and prefer to err on the side of analog/tube neutral warm rather than digital neutral bright.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Stuff Jones said:


> Yes, but I listen to more jazz than classical  and prefer to err on the side of analog/tube neutral warm rather than digital neutral bright.


As mentioned by @Ronion changing the foams will help. Hiegi full foams for example.


----------



## MelodyMood

1clearhead said:


> +1 on the SMABAT M0. But, I can also suggest the JCALLY EP09, which also includes detachable cables and will sound excellent with the included sponges installed. If you still want to give Yincrow a try, for a little more than the X6, you can get the Yincrow RW-9, which offers better non-detachable wires and sound, and outlast the Yincrow X6 in durability. The wires come in different attractive colors, too.
> 
> SMABAT M0
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003125110620.html
> ...


How is JCALLY EP09 in terms of Sound Signature and overall? Is there any review or comparison with other buds? Can it be considered for nice smooth sound with lots of lots of details and clarity + good Bass and Sub Bass too?


----------



## emusic13

Newbsound Pro


----------



## Stuff Jones

What about the midbass on the Chaconne? Do they do a good job with upright bass?


----------



## Ronion

You think you can pull a driver out of an MX500 shell @Stuff Jones ?  Many people do it with a bottle opener.  It’s probably safer than with your teeth.  If so, for a few dollars you can tune a Tingo TG38s and have a world class bud.  Particularly for natural, 
acoustic instruments AND doubly so for recordings inside real spaces.  I have it and the LBBs and I’m sure you’ll find that they are 2 different leagues of resolution and spaciousness.  It’s the real diamond in the rough, but it does require tuning to get there.  If you don’t want to attempt it, the LBBs isn’t a bad way to go.  Comes tuned very nicely and has a great fit for me—better than an MX500.  The Cacophony is a notoriously poorer fitting bud….


----------



## Dbriv

Listening to the new Robert Plant and Aliso Krauss album Raise the Roof on my Blur 189 mx150. The vocals and staging are just superb. Couldn’t ask for more from a bud.


----------



## n00b

Stuff Jones said:


> What about the midbass on the Chaconne? Do they do a good job with upright bass?


i unpacked mine and gave them a spin tonight, i think they sound good for stringed bass. warm and clear. but basically no drum impact (kicks sound like snares sort of) and no subbass (i completely missed some melodies in a pop song until i used my bassier buds lol).

i put hiegi full foams on them too and they are nicer than in the bass than i remember. especially if the track has female vocals or something else that they do very well for you to focus on, you kinda dont realize that they lack slam, weight, and rumble. some pure electronic tracks just dont make sense with them, but even pop songs that aren’t totally acoustic sound good with vocals.

i compared a pure female vocal track — Colors by Stella Jang — on the Newbsound 32pro and Chaconne. Chaconne obviously slays that track, ultra clear and airy and intimate with a natural effortless timbre. 32pro like I mentioned has that ever so slightly too warm and fuzzy characteristic to the vocals and anything approaching the lower range stands out more than it probably should so it can seem distracting. It doesn’t sound bad at all btw, but in a critical listening session the Chaconne comes out on top for that kind of track.

I am now back on the fence whether I want to keep the Chaconne in my collection still. Its like a cold sip of water after waking up in the middle of the night, just calmly refreshing. The 32pro are like warming up with your favorite mug of tea or coffee, warm, smooth, sweet, with just enough buzz to keep you engaged. Great complementary pairing.


----------



## Scuba Devils

Yeah 100% agree @n00b - they make a perfect pair and between them address all of music needs in buds.

Absolutely concur also in terms of bass, they won't serve the need for the slam of a kickdrum or go down deep in sub bass, but the bass representation in jazz for example is sublime - I was listening to Salute to the Sun by Matthew Halsall earlier and the lifelike timbre was hair-raising. The overall sense of imaging, soundstage, timbre and natural presentation of an album such as that is the best I've heard... yes the bass goes deeper when I compared to an IEM, but the trade-off was a loss of an organic, realistic presentation. 

Chaconne does electronic ambient incredibly well too as no need for bass kick.


----------



## 1clearhead

MelodyMood said:


> How is JCALLY EP09 in terms of Sound Signature and overall? Is there any review or comparison with other buds? Can it be considered for nice smooth sound with lots of lots of details and clarity + good Bass and Sub Bass too?


If your intentions are to use them with the sponge covers included in the package, then it will sound nicely balanced with plenty of details. And, while sub-bass/bass is not the deepest, it actually provides a broad, rich and punchy signature. It is tuned very well for those that are willing to use them with the included sponge covers for excellent balance with life-like vocals and hi-end micro details. Now, if you decide to use them without the sponge covers, chances are you might find them on the bright side. There has only been several impressions and talk about them including my own many pages back on this thread. So, you can checkout my impressions on them at the link below...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16316946

Hope this helps...

-Clear


----------



## Scuba Devils

Actually, I should add, I still prefer EM5 for ambient electronic music but I could probably live without it - I'll see what happens with the return. Plus I paid full price which was €280, they dropped the price significantly for 11.11 and I expect the same for Black Friday or January sales so maybe I'll buy again at a better price, I'll be more comfortable then with the QC risk!


----------



## Ironhide

WoodyLuvr said:


> To those interested, I have made some substantial updates to the *Earbud Timeline*



A correction in your earbud timeline. I emailed Penon audio and they confirmed by contacting Shozy that there is no Shozy Cygnus II and that they have always used a 16Ω driver. There is no change is impedance of Shozy Cygnus from the launch of the earbud till now. 

The 32Ω listing was a mistake by Penon audio and now they have corrected that on their website, they also made it clear by contacting Shozy that it was always 16Ω and not 18Ω.


----------



## snapandslide

Scuba Devils said:


> Actually, I should add, I still prefer EM5 for ambient electronic music but I could probably live without it - I'll see what happens with the return. Plus I paid full price which was €280, they dropped the price significantly for 11.11 and I expect the same for Black Friday or January sales so maybe I'll buy again at a better price, I'll be more comfortable then with the QC risk!


Damn thats a lot at RRP - take the money! My EM5s due today or tomorrow - i think that'll work well for jazz/classical, from what i read the timbre is pretty good on them.


----------



## Scuba Devils

snapandslide said:


> Damn thats a lot at RRP - take the money! My EM5s due today or tomorrow - i think that'll work well for jazz/classical, from what i read the timbre is pretty good on them.



Yeah definitely well suited to jazz, classical and indeed ambient which I have been mostly using them for. They reign supreme for comfort and literally hardly feeling them in your ears, plus a fantastic cable. Shame about mine but I reckon I'll go refund and buy at a better price.

Next on your list for more of a thud should be the Newbsound 32pro... especially for $80.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Ironhide said:


> A correction in your earbud timeline. I emailed Penon audio and they confirmed by contacting Shozy that there is no Shozy Cygnus II and that they have always used a 16Ω driver. There is no change is impedance of Shozy Cygnus from the launch of the earbud till now.
> 
> The 32Ω listing was a mistake by Penon audio and now they have corrected that on their website, they also made it clear by contacting Shozy that it was always 16Ω and not 18Ω.


Appreciate the heads up! Thank you.

Regarding the 18Ω vs 16Ω: a number of us came to the realization back in 2016 to 2018 that Shozy might have been using a mislabeled 18Ω driver after multiple measurements on multiple units resulted in measurements falling between 17 and 18Ω... averaging out and rounding to ~18Ω. I'll add a note explaining this which I should have done before.


----------



## rprodrigues (Nov 19, 2021)

Ronion said:


> You think you can pull a driver out of an MX500 shell @Stuff Jones ?  Many people do it with a bottle opener.  It’s probably safer than with your teeth.  If so, for a few dollars you can tune a Tingo TG38s and have a world class bud.  Particularly for natural,
> acoustic instruments AND doubly so for recordings inside real spaces.  I have it and the LBBs and I’m sure you’ll find that they are 2 different leagues of resolution and spaciousness.  It’s the real diamond in the rough, but it does require tuning to get there.  If you don’t want to attempt it, the LBBs isn’t a bad way to go.  Comes tuned very nicely and has a great fit for me—better than an MX500.  The Cacophony is a notoriously poorer fitting bud….



Would you mind sharing what improvements you got retuning them?

I thought they were prety good right out the box.


----------



## ian91

snapandslide said:


> Damn thats a lot at RRP - take the money! My EM5s due today or tomorrow - i think that'll work well for jazz/classical, from what i read the timbre is pretty good on them.



Buds are so good for coherency and acoustic timbre. Please check out Blur earbuds too - I think it would be remiss of me to not chime in with the suggestion even though its incredibly predictable of me (check my signature...). They've been a great source of enjoyment over the past few months and are in a similar price bracket to the EM5. Let us know how you get on with the EM5 though - I hope it doesn't leave you wanting.


----------



## Scuba Devils

Speaking of coherency and acoustic timbre, I have this playing right now on Chaconne - wow. Checking out the recommendations made yesterday later tonight.


----------



## ian91

Scuba Devils said:


> Speaking of coherency and acoustic timbre, I have this playing right now on Chaconne - wow. Checking out the recommendations made yesterday later tonight.




Excellent recording that one!


----------



## Scuba Devils

ian91 said:


> Excellent recording that one!



Yes I discovered it thanks to a post from @gLer - another member that needs to revisit buds!


----------



## ranfan

Scuba Devils said:


> Speaking of coherency and acoustic timbre, I have this playing right now on Chaconne - wow. Checking out the recommendations made yesterday later tonight.



You're making me wanna get the Chaconne  Definitely worth a revisit try. Last time I tried was without the foam, I wonder if the foam might help increase the natural sweetness of the tone


----------



## irv003

WoodyLuvr said:


> Appreciate the heads up! Thank you.
> 
> Regarding the 18Ω vs 16Ω: a number of us came to the realization back in 2016 to 2018 that Shozy might have been using a mislabeled 18Ω driver after multiple measurements on multiple units resulted in measurements falling between 17 and 18Ω... averaging out and rounding to ~18Ω. I'll add a note explaining this which I should have done before.


i recabled an old shozy cygnus last time since the wire is already in hulk mode (green) and measuring the impedance, its safe to say its16Ω.


----------



## Scuba Devils

ranfan said:


> You're making me wanna get the Chaconne  Definitely worth a revisit try. Last time I tried was without the foam, I wonder if the foam might help increase the natural sweetness of the tone



I haven't tried without foam and in fact, I've double foam to keep a secure fit. I suspect Chaconne could be touching harsh without foam... I must try though.


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

Scuba Devils said:


> I haven't tried without foam and in fact, I've double foam to keep a secure fit. I suspect Chaconne could be touching harsh without foam... I must try though.



Can you share your thoughts on Chaconne vs LBBs?


----------



## Scuba Devils

boredbuyingstuff said:


> Can you share your thoughts on Chaconne vs LBBs?



I will a proper listen to both tonight and share some thoughts.


----------



## Rick1982

My EM5 arrived just now... I hope they sound at last as good as they are beautiful.
Great packaging.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Nov 19, 2021)

irv003 said:


> i recabled an old shozy cygnus last time since the wire is already in hulk mode (green) and measuring the impedance, its safe to say its16Ω.


That doesn't mean or imply that all of ours were not. There was some suspicion that multiple drivers might have been at play in the early Shozy days (similar to early models from Svara and Sambat)... it was not necessarily intentional but rather Shozy being tricked by the driver provider/manufacturer and/or drivers simply being mislabeled.

Just so you don't think I am some batty old guy off his rocker here is a related post from this very thread:


golov17 said:


> I measured impedance of some buds
> LD3.0 400 - 399 Ohm
> LD3.0 320 - 311 Ohm
> LD3.0 150 - 143 Ohm
> ...


----------



## Stuff Jones

Scuba Devils said:


> I will a proper listen to both tonight and share some thoughts.



Any chance of adding the Newbsound 32pro for a three way? LBBS and 32Pro have both been mentioned as Chaconne alternatives.


----------



## rprodrigues

irv003 said:


> i recabled an old shozy cygnus last time since the wire is already in hulk mode (green) and measuring the impedance, its safe to say its16Ω.



Nice recabling. 
Did you get any sound change using this new cable?

Btw, aren't these wires too gummy?
I have them but I think they are too gummy for a good cable.


----------



## irv003 (Nov 19, 2021)

rprodrigues said:


> Nice recabling.
> Did you get any sound change using this new cable?
> 
> Btw, aren't these wires too gummy?
> I have them but I think they are too gummy for a good cable.


Thank you! This is @mochill 's unit. It's with copper wire, I think its smoother sounding than stock (spc wire).

Youre're correct this wire is nice but its sticky.
I choose this wire as it fits perfectly on the shell's tail, no need drilling.


----------



## Ironhide

irv003 said:


> i recabled an old shozy cygnus last time since the wire is already in hulk mode (green) and measuring the impedance, its safe to say its16Ω.



When the Shozy Cygnus cable turns green does it affect the earbuds in any way? like it becomes sticky or any other undesirable characteristic? I am planning to buy one so your views will be helpful in making a decision.


----------



## irv003

Ironhide said:


> When the Shozy Cygnus cable turns green does it affect the earbuds in any way? like it becomes sticky or any other undesirable characteristic? I am planning to buy one so your views will be helpful in making a decision.


It doesnt affect the sound but this shozy cygnus stock cable is becoming stiff, not as flexible as stock wires.


----------



## Ironhide

irv003 said:


> It doesnt affect the sound but this shozy cygnus stock cable is becoming stiff, not as flexible as stock wires.



So, it becomes green and stiff. How much time does it take to get at this stage? I don't know why Shozy have not replaced this obviously flawed cable till now, maybe getting the more expensive Shozy BK is the way to go. 

Can you confirm that you had the newer cable version that looked yellow/golden color? The earlier ones were silver color and turned green very quickly. Here is the picture of the current cable: https://penonaudio.com/shozy-cygnus.html


----------



## irv003 (Nov 19, 2021)

Ironhide said:


> So, it becomes green and stiff. How much time does it take to get at this stage? I don't know why Shozy have not replaced this obviously flawed cable till now, maybe getting the more expensive Shozy BK is the way to go.
> 
> Can you confirm that you had the newer cable version that looked yellow/golden color? The earlier ones were silver color and turned green very quickly. Here is the picture of the current cable: https://penonaudio.com/shozy-cygnus.html


the unit i recabled is an old one. im not sure how it will be on their newer release units.

My Shozy BK purchased 2017 is still good, i have no cable problem or anything.


----------



## Ironhide

irv003 said:


> the unit i recabled is an old one. im not sure how it will be on their newer release units.
> 
> My Shozy BK purchased 2017 is still good, i have no cable problem or anything.



I looked around on Amazon and other reviews, even the new Gold color cable turns green. So no change on that front. What will be your suggestion on Shozy Cygnus vs BK? I am mostly looking for natural sounding voice for listening to podcasts, movies etc and not much music. Will the Cygnus cable be tolerable or it will become too irritating?


----------



## irv003

Ironhide said:


> I looked around on Amazon and other reviews, even the new Gold color cable turns green. So no change on that front. What will be your suggestion on Shozy Cygnus vs BK? I am mostly looking for natural sounding voice for listening to podcasts, movies etc and not much music. Will the Cygnus cable be tolerable or it will become too irritating?


Cygnus green cable is tolerable for me.


----------



## mochill

Ironhide said:


> I looked around on Amazon and other reviews, even the new Gold color cable turns green. So no change on that front. What will be your suggestion on Shozy Cygnus vs BK? I am mostly looking for natural sounding voice for listening to podcasts, movies etc and not much music. Will the Cygnus cable be tolerable or it will become too irritating?


Get newbsound 32pro


----------



## Ironhide

mochill said:


> Get newbsound 32pro


I am looking for smaller Yuin PK type shells, that is why Shozy Cygnus was shortlisted.


----------



## Stuff Jones

mochill said:


> Get newbsound 32pro



Searched for it but couldn't find - where's it sold?


----------



## digititus

Stuff Jones said:


> Searched for it but couldn't find - where's it sold?


You will need to talk with @irv003


----------



## Xinlisupreme

Rick1982 said:


> My EM5 arrived just now... I hope they sound at last as good as they are beautiful.
> Great packaging.


Also mine!
Gorgeous packaging 😊


----------



## Ronion

rprodrigues said:


> Would you mind sharing what improvements you got retuning them?
> 
> I thought they were prety good right out the box.


They are a bit boxy—well at least mine were, but they had no tuning paper or foam applied to them at all.  So anyway, it took away the boxiness.


----------



## Ronion

Stuff Jones said:


> What about the midbass on the Chaconne? Do they do a good job with upright bass?


I’ll tell you the truth, I listened to every purchasable bud I have that could possibly do a Jazz upright bass justice.  I listened to Jazz for hours just for you (hard work 😂).  Without question the Blur PK32 New Line is the best I’ve got in that regard.  A class apart from the rest.  My second favorite, though not as resolving, was my SMABAT M2s Pro with the Super One driver.  The blur are absolutely awesome with Jazz.  Insane.  If I had to do it on a budget, a tight budget, the Yincrow X6 can make it audible though it doesn’t have the depth or speed you want in this situation.  The Blur can make the whole range of instruments sound distinct, full of life, timbre, and in their own space.


----------



## Scuba Devils

Ronion said:


> I’ll tell you the truth, I listened to every purchasable bud I have that could possibly do a Jazz upright bass justice.  I listened to Jazz for hours just for you (hard work 😂).  Without question the Blur PK32 New Line is the best I’ve got in that regard.  A class apart from the rest.  My second favorite, though not as resolving, was my SMABAT M2s Pro with the Super One driver.  The blur are absolutely awesome with Jazz.  Insane.  If I had to do it on a budget, a tight budget, the Yincrow X6 can make it audible though it doesn’t have the depth or speed you want in this situation.  The Blur can make the whole range of instruments sound distinct, full of life, timbre, and in their own space.



Oh I'm excited to test the pk32 myself today - I had planned to have a bud listening session last night bit got distracted. Looking forward to it!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Scuba Devils said:


> Uh oh - my EM5 have a fault! There is a rattle coming from the right ear from kick drums, tried a few tracks and quite obvious, not there when I switched to 32pro. I bought from Amazon so I've initiated the return process...


Sorry to hear that. A real shame that this model is suffering these QC issues as it is indeed a nice sounding bud.


----------



## Scuba Devils

@Ronion - listening to my now go-to jazz album for testing, Salute to the Sun... I concur, it sounds incredible on pk32 new line - bass is stunning. I'll compare later with Chaconne, 32pro and LBBS.


----------



## Mafk

11.11 passed but since Black Friday is coming up I wanted to ask you for a starter pack recommendations for a newbie like me  Let's say top 5/top 10 must have budget (under 15-20usd) options. I already have Yincrow x6 and NiceHCK DIY MX500 on the way. Eyeing up Headroom/Ollivan MS16 (are they the same thing?) for fps gaming and maybe Tingo TC200. I'll be shopping from aliexpress. Thanks!


----------



## Scuba Devils

WoodyLuvr said:


> Sorry to hear that. A real shame that this model is suffering these QC issues as it is indeed a nice sounding bud.



Yeah very unfortunate, I really love the EM5 - I miss them already.


----------



## emusic13

Scuba Devils said:


> Yeah very unfortunate, I really love the EM5 - I miss them already.


Get a Shozy BK in the meantime 😁


----------



## Scuba Devils

emusic13 said:


> Get a Shozy BK in the meantime 😁



Ha stop, don't be putting ideas into my head 🤪


----------



## Scuba Devils

Doing some comparisons and I must say it's difficult to conclude on a winner as such. Testing the same track again by Matthew Halsall - it's great due to broad instrumentation range and added use of sampling. The mix of upright bass, sax, percussion make for excellent evaluation. 

From a bass perspective, I would say 32pro and 32pk are pretty much a tie but with a timbre edge to 32pk, minimal though - both have a more upfront/dominant position of bass versus Chaconne and I feel also more analogue or vinyl-like sounding compared to a somewhat more CD-like /clinical sound from Chaconne. Lbbs does a fantastic job for the price and even bass sounds good but I notice a big difference when I switch to any of the others, especially soundstage and overall fuller body of sound.

I plan to test other genres later but price to performance here I'd have to pick 32pro as the winner, differences too marginal versus price difference to Blur or Chaconne.


----------



## n00b (Nov 20, 2021)

Scuba Devils said:


> I plan to test other genres later but price to performance here I'd have to pick 32pro as the winner, differences too marginal versus price difference to Blur or Chaconne.


I find it interesting that you liked the EM5 so much, because my assessment of most of the buds in your comparison match/ive come to the same conclusion. We have a lot of the same gear actually except I did not like the EM5 for a bunch of reasons and returned mine. Another unfortunate similarity is that our favorite buds broke and needed to be sent back haha. It makes me wonder if I missed something when listening to the EM5, but even then I don’t think it can edge out custom buds in performance: price ratio.

For fun how would you rank the buds you got?

For me I think I’m going to settle on this:

Keep: Bell Ti Plus, 32pro 4.4mm + 3.5mm
Maybe sell: Chaconne
Sell: LBBS, 150ohm M2s Pro, X6, ME80


----------



## Scuba Devils (Nov 20, 2021)

n00b said:


> I find it interesting that you liked the EM5 so much, because my assessment of most of the buds in your comparison match/ive come to the same conclusion. We have a lot of the same gear actually except I did not like the EM5 for a bunch of reasons and returned mine. Another unfortunate similarity is that our favorite buds broke and needed to be sent back haha. It makes me wonder if I missed something when listening to the EM5, but even then I don’t think it can edge out custom buds in performance: price ratio.
> 
> For fun how would you rank the buds you got?
> 
> ...



It could be down to music preferences, EM5 definitely hit a sweet spot for me with ambient and modern classical, I didn't really listen to much else on them - plus mostly in bed at night, incredibly comfortable, the best of all my buds.

Keen to hear a comparison of Bell Ti Plus vs 32pro and Chaconne!

In terms of ranking, too soon to say with both 32pro and Chaconne landing this week... I'll take a stab when more time with them over the weekend! I think if I could only keep one though, I'd say 32pro - it definitely handles everything incredibly well, even though something like Chaconne does specific genres better.

Edit - pk32 does everything incredibly well too, and some I'd say better, but it loses an all-rounder status due to the cable for me.


----------



## n00b

Scuba Devils said:


> It could be down to music preferences, EM5 definitely hit a sweet spot for me with ambient and modern classical, I didn't really listen to much else on them - plus mostly in bed at night, incredibly comfortable, the best of all my buds.


ohhh that makes a lot of sense. I listen to mostly pop and r&b with female vocals, and EM5 was making them sound weird as hell. Between the Chaconne and EM5 I kept the Chaconne since it slays a lot of my library.

I think Bell Ti Plus is like the 32pro and Chaconne put together in the sense that the tuning is closer to the 32pro but a little more energetic, still warm but bass presentation is more tactile and dynamic vs deep and textured. Technicalities and air are on par with Chaconne. And even then, 32pro and chaconne are close in vocal quality but just slight timbre and texture differences that you wouldn't notice unless looking hard for it and the music has bass in the background under vocals

For me, if the Chaconne fit and weighed closer to an mx500 shell, it would be in my top 3 rotation. I think the MX500 shell is starting to fit me best, but because theyre slightly larger they stay in my ear more, but the tradeoff is fatigue sets in earlier. When my Bell Ti Plus get replaced I think I will slap HieGi foams on them to make them fit a little larger and then they'd be my #1 most of the time. Not surprising since they cost 2x the chaconne and 9x the 32pro


----------



## Ronion

Scuba Devils said:


> Edit - pk32 does everything incredibly well too, and some I'd say better, but it loses an all-rounder status due to the cable for me.


The cable is my one issue with it.  It looks great, but the stiffness and microphonics take it down a notch for portable use which is a real shame because it’s comfortable, sounds awesome and easy to drive.


----------



## Scuba Devils

n00b said:


> ohhh that makes a lot of sense. I listen to mostly pop and r&b with female vocals, and EM5 was making them sound weird as hell. Between the Chaconne and EM5 I kept the Chaconne since it slays a lot of my library.
> 
> I think Bell Ti Plus is like the 32pro and Chaconne put together in the sense that the tuning is closer to the 32pro but a little more energetic, still warm but bass presentation is more tactile and dynamic vs deep and textured. Technicalities and air are on par with Chaconne. And even then, 32pro and chaconne are close in vocal quality but just slight timbre and texture differences that you wouldn't notice unless looking hard for it and the music has bass in the background under vocals
> 
> For me, if the Chaconne fit and weighed closer to an mx500 shell, it would be in my top 3 rotation. I think the MX500 shell is starting to fit me best, but because theyre slightly larger they stay in my ear more, but the tradeoff is fatigue sets in earlier. When my Bell Ti Plus get replaced I think I will slap HieGi foams on them to make them fit a little larger and then they'd be my #1 most of the time. Not surprising since they cost 2x the chaconne and 9x the 32pro



You have me more curious on Bell Ti Plus now! Maybe in 2022, no more buds for now! Definitely on the shortlist though along with the new Blur and Shozy BK.


----------



## n00b

Scuba Devils said:


> You have me more curious on Bell Ti Plus now! Maybe in 2022, no more buds for now! Definitely on the shortlist though along with the new Blur and Shozy BK.


unless money is no object, it's not worth dealing with the QC. i am perfectly happy enjoying my other buds while they're out of service


----------



## rprodrigues (Nov 20, 2021)

Mafk said:


> 11.11 passed but since Black Friday is coming up I wanted to ask you for a starter pack recommendations for a newbie like me  Let's say top 5/top 10 must have budget (under 15-20usd) options. I already have Yincrow x6 and NiceHCK DIY MX500 on the way. Eyeing up Headroom/Ollivan MS16 (are they the same thing?) for fps gaming and maybe Tingo TC200. I'll be shopping from aliexpress. Thanks!



Hello there.

Save a bit and then grab a K's LBBS.  It is a very good all-rounder right out the box. It has a very good fit for medium to small ears.

If you prefer MX500 shells, then you need to wait for an advice from someone else.

My humble opinion:  ordering too much buds is a waste of money (more than 60 buds here, dude!).


----------



## RikudouGoku

rprodrigues said:


> more than 60 buds here


Damn, thats almost double the buds I have. (34 + 4 OTW)


----------



## rprodrigues (Nov 20, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Damn, thats almost double the buds I have. (34 + 4 OTW)



Mostly budget ones (less than $10) and a few DIY sets, so the total number doesn't matter that much.
Nothing above the $100 mark.

I get the best SQ exactly from the most expensive ones  (rw2000, pt2021) whilst the best SQ/price ratios come from some DIY sets and from k's LBBS.

What is weird about them is that I've been using some of the $10 sets while my $400 iem has been laying around for a long time.


----------



## Ronion

Same thing happened to me with my IEMs and on-ear and over-ear headphones.  They just lay around now unused.


----------



## ElectricKaibutu

I've been out of the earbud game for a year or so. I have these:

VE Monk+, RY4S UE, Fengru Silver, Vido, Yincrow X6, Philips SHE3800.

Any new sub $20 MX500 style come on the scene that I should check out?


----------



## teamdbatz (Dec 2, 2021)

i got this old tune blur pk32 brandnew custom made for 95 canadian dollar at 2019. i have revisited my buds collection and played around and came to the conclusion. this one tops everything that i have. the fit, the sound and the price to ratio performance.


----------



## Charlyro222

A great surprise listening again today Newb 32pro after some hours of burnin.
Less boomy and more detailed mids.
Sweet signature getting better.


----------



## dissociativity

I really hope smabat releasing a dual driver earbud pushes more brands to experiment, after being used to the rose masya, nothing quite compares and excites me beyond maybe the 1more e1008's unique sound anymore, my old he150 pro is still well loved as an EDC, though I did quite enjoy the jcally ep05 recently, it's rather nice.

I do want to try the toneking ty2 at some point but I keep being offput by it apparently being brighter than the masya.


----------



## emergencylies

Hey, new to this thread but happy I found it. Due to health and neck problems and have been forced to give up on regular cans. Unfortunately, I have small ears that seem to resist IEMs and I'm not a fan of etymotic's fit. All that's fine by me because I've always loved earbuds. I'm on the hunt, now, and hopefully you guys can answer some questions as this is quite a long thread.

I'm looking for TOTL buds with a neutral warmish signature. I listen to classical but I don't want treble emphasized (although it needs to be present ofc) because I find that fatiguing and I listen to a lot of pop/rock as well. Looking for a sweet euphonic signature. Some more specific questions/thoughts....

EM5 - a ton of positive reviews, but is the treble overemphasized? 

Yincraw rw 2000 - I'm a bit hesitant of metal earbuds as they seem less comfortable and heavy?

Turandot dqsm - Any more thoughts on this guy?

7hz Beatles - Couldn't find much on this so, again, any thoughts would be much appreciated. 

Blurs - You guys have mentioned these quite a bit but I can't find them online anywhere else?

Also open to suggestions as I basically don't know too much about the different kind of earbuds as they aren't as often reviewed.


----------



## emusic13

emergencylies said:


> Hey, new to this thread but happy I found it. Due to health and neck problems and have been forced to give up on regular cans. Unfortunately, I have small ears that seem to resist IEMs and I'm not a fan of etymotic's fit. All that's fine by me because I've always loved earbuds. I'm on the hunt, now, and hopefully you guys can answer some questions as this is quite a long thread.
> 
> I'm looking for TOTL buds with a neutral warmish signature. I listen to classical but I don't want treble emphasized (although it needs to be present ofc) because I find that fatiguing and I listen to a lot of pop/rock as well. Looking for a sweet euphonic signature. Some more specific questions/thoughts....
> 
> ...


 Shozy BK could be an option


----------



## uneri (Nov 25, 2021)

‎


----------



## emusic13

uneri said:


> Turandot and RW-2000 are both great choices.
> 
> Turandot has outstanding mids, and a very non-fatiguing sound, while still providing a good detailed listen.
> (ClieOS has also described Turandot's mid-range as 'euphonic' in his review of DQSM PD21)
> ...


The RW-3000 is like a better Turandot?


----------



## uneri (Nov 25, 2021)

‎


----------



## Ronion

emergencylies said:


> Hey, new to this thread but happy I found it. Due to health and neck problems and have been forced to give up on regular cans. Unfortunately, I have small ears that seem to resist IEMs and I'm not a fan of etymotic's fit. All that's fine by me because I've always loved earbuds. I'm on the hunt, now, and hopefully you guys can answer some questions as this is quite a long thread.
> 
> I'm looking for TOTL buds with a neutral warmish signature. I listen to classical but I don't want treble emphasized (although it needs to be present ofc) because I find that fatiguing and I listen to a lot of pop/rock as well. Looking for a sweet euphonic signature. Some more specific questions/thoughts....
> 
> ...


The Blur PK32 are pretty hard beat given what you are looking for.  I haven’t tried the others on your list however.  You’d have to contact Wong through Twitter or Facebook.  They can actually do any genre justice.  The driver is fast and the tuning promotes deep bass for an earbud.  Timbre is excellent on acoustic instruments though headstage is only above earbud average.  Still, they do natural instruments justice (certainly among the best in this regard) and have an agreeable fit and can be easily driven from a 1v output like a phone.  It’s an attractive set of features and the customer services is topnotch.  I’m not sure I’d call the euphonic however— but I tend to think of “euphonic“ as a polite way of saying muddy.  The Blur are the opposite of that.  They are clear and every instrument is exposed and delineated and occupies its space.  That to me is Euphonic, but may not be what you think of as euphonic.  They are not bright either, but the treble is distinct and extended.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Nov 22, 2021)

uneri said:


> Turandot and RW-2000 are both great choices.
> 
> Turandot has outstanding mids, and a very non-fatiguing sound, while still providing a good detailed listen.
> (ClieOS has also described Turandot's mid-range as 'euphonic' in his review of DQSM PD21)
> ...





uneri said:


> RW-3000 shares the same balanced sound signature as RW-2000, and is technically superior than Turandot with better extension on both ends, but the mids on Turandot are still 'sweeter' sounding to me.


So glad you posted this comparison (a huge thank you) as I have been very interested in the *Yincrow RW-3000* since you alerted us to it's arrival earlier in the month *here*. I most definitely was impressed with the RW-2000 but it unfortunately was very fatiguing for me to use for more than just a few tracks at a time and was sometimes naughty in a sibilant way as you stated... so the fact that you are saying Yincrow has corrected this gives me great hope!!!

Yes, the Turandot's mid-range is indeed very hard to beat and they are surprisingly ear friendly earbuds in spite of being so detailed.  They perform well for long listening sessions. I am staring at a pair (my pair) in my lil' Siamese wife's ears as I type this... I'll never get them back


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Nov 22, 2021)

emergencylies said:


> Hey, new to this thread but happy I found it. Due to health and neck problems and have been forced to give up on regular cans. Unfortunately, I have small ears that seem to resist IEMs and I'm not a fan of etymotic's fit. All that's fine by me because I've always loved earbuds. I'm on the hunt, now, and hopefully you guys can answer some questions as this is quite a long thread.


Welcome to the rabbit hole! Be careful a number of the earbuds you listed are not warm.



emergencylies said:


> *I'm looking for TOTL buds with a neutral warmish signature*. I listen to classical but I don't want treble emphasized (although it needs to be present ofc) because I find that fatiguing and I listen to a lot of pop/rock as well. Looking for a sweet euphonic signature. Some more specific questions/thoughts....
> 
> EM5 - a ton of positive reviews, but is the treble overemphasized?


*FiiO EM5* is a nicely performing and great sounding earbud but they have had some concerning QC issues... I am considering removing them from my *God-Tier Earbuds* list along with *Ks Bell-Ti *



emergencylies said:


> Yincraw rw 2000 - I'm a bit hesitant of metal earbuds as they seem less comfortable and heavy?


Another excellent performing earbud but these are not warm sounding; the *Yincrow RW-2000* along with it's older sibling the *RW-1000* (Original and Bass Versions) these are very detailed earbuds though they can be quite fatiguing from some people and sibilant with certain music genres.
Really sounding like the new and latest *RW-3000* may have solved these issues



emergencylies said:


> Turandot dqsm - Any more thoughts on this guy?


Very detailed; mid-centric; nearly fatigue-free earbud. Can be a tad forward (shouty) and even aggressive with certain music genres. Again, not a warm earbud but overall an excellent earbud and quite respected. *@ClieOS *also thinks highly of the newer *PD21* which I hope to listen to in the next day or two along with Ks 2021 version of the Bell-Ti Onmyoji.



emergencylies said:


> 7hz Beatles - Couldn't find much on this so, again, any thoughts would be much appreciated.


Pass; a really disappointing BRIGHT earbud.



emergencylies said:


> Blurs - You guys have mentioned these quite a bit but I can't find them online anywhere else?


Check out the *Blur Earbuds Lovers* thread and this post *here*. There is a ton info here (including how to contact Blur) and there are many Head-Fiers on this particular thread that will be more than happy to assist you in selecting a model. The warmest models currently available in ascending order are:

*Blur (266R) MX400 Reference*
*Blur 189 Hybrid PK150*
*Blur (266R) PK32 Reference*



emergencylies said:


> Also open to suggestions as I basically don't know too much about the different kind of earbuds as they aren't as often reviewed.


Some other warm (warm-like) earbuds to consider are as follows:

*Ksearphone 蓝精铃 Bell-Blue* (32/33Ω; _aka "The Smurfs" / "Blue Bell" / "Bell Smurf"_)
*Ksearphone 小黑铃 Bell-LBBs* (30Ω)
*Ksearphone 钛铃阴阳师2021版 Bell-Ti Onmyoji v2021 *(30Ω)
*Moondrop Chaconne* (24Ω)
*Shozy 大黑 Big Black (BK) Stardust *(16Ω Original c2016 w/ Brown Cable; _added back to the list as the* 2021 Reissue ** is reported to be true to the original_)
*Simphonio SW-Dragon 3 Plus* (120Ω; aka "SWD3+")


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Nov 22, 2021)

rprodrigues said:


> ...(more than 60 buds here, dude!).





RikudouGoku said:


> Damn, thats almost double the buds I have. (34 + 4 OTW)


Amateurs!
Let's talk when you hit triple digits (all in jest... an attempt to fuel their addiction-affliction here).


----------



## Musicoflife

I have a pair of KBear Stellar. Is Vido a sidegrade?


----------



## Billyak

The problem is how cheap they are compared to IEMs and Headphones! It's so easy to order 2 or 3 pairs at a time and be like a kid at Christmas when they arrive.


----------



## ian91

Billyak said:


> The problem is how cheap they are compared to IEMs and Headphones! It's so easy to order 2 or 3 pairs at a time and be like a kid at Christmas when they arrive.



This has been the happiest discovery of the year for me - buds offer variety at half the price (or less) and maximum comfort.


----------



## Scuba Devils

ian91 said:


> This has been the happiest discovery of the year for me - buds offer variety at half the price (or less) and maximum comfort.



Yep, me too - I owe you a beer whenever a meet takes place for being quite insistent that I try them!


----------



## re23071998 (Nov 22, 2021)

current crowdfund prices are 64 for non pro and 158 for the pro
half of the original prices 💸
https://www.facebook.com/linhui20/posts/896515377899164


----------



## feverfive

I listened to 






last night with my Penon BS1 Official out of my humble iPhone SE (2020) and Apple dongle.  There were moments I shook my head, somewhat disgusted with myself that I have felt the need to spend multi-kilobucks, hahahaha!  It was a joy to listen with that simple setup.

I am liking my new journey into buds, but I also know myself:  my need for a return to life under 60Hz will surface, LOL.  Though, at the same time, at least in my case, buds are pretty much intended for non-music listening (laptop use; video conference calls, Youtube vids; tv shows/movies), so I also don't have to be so absolutely critical, especially at these relatively wallet-friendly prices

I feel like I have returned to a sense of sanity in this hobby; my near 6 years away helped in that regard, for sure.  Just sayin'....when I am balking at the current (upcoming BF deals) ~$300 asking price for the RW-3000, it tells me perhaps I am not irretrievably destined for feeling cornered into multi-kilobuck land.


----------



## digititus

feverfive said:


> I listened to
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The law of diminishing returns is perfectly illustrated with earbuds. Enjoy.


----------



## Rick1982

Someone can compare Ve Zen 2.0 vs EM5, some Blurs and Newbsound?
Are Zen 2.0 a solid performer after  several years?


----------



## emergencylies

WoodyLuvr said:


> Welcome to the rabbit hole! Be careful a number of the earbuds you listed are not warm.
> 
> 
> *FiiO EM5* is a nicely performing and great sounding earbud but they have had some concerning QC issues... I am considering removing them from my *God-Tier Earbuds* list along with *Ks Bell-Ti *
> ...


Awesome reply thanks. Actually after I posted I stumbled on you're god tier list thread which has many useful links overall as well. The yincraw look oddly comfortable although I am bit hesitant towards large metal buds as I suspect they would tend to annoy me after a while (hence my initial interest in the resin of em5). The Ksearphone's look really comfy though (and that blue is awesome).


----------



## digititus

emergencylies said:


> Awesome reply thanks. Actually after I posted I stumbled on you're god tier list thread which has many useful links overall as well. The yincraw look oddly comfortable although I am bit hesitant towards large metal buds as I suspect they would tend to annoy me after a while (hence my initial interest in the resin of em5). The Ksearphone's look really comfy though (and that blue is awesome).


The Yincrow- RW earbuds are some of the most comfortable for me to wear, but I do wear them over ear where they are more stable and it is easier to obtain an optimal fit.


----------



## MelodyMood

1clearhead said:


> If your intentions are to use them with the sponge covers included in the package, then it will sound nicely balanced with plenty of details. And, while sub-bass/bass is not the deepest, it actually provides a broad, rich and punchy signature. It is tuned very well for those that are willing to use them with the included sponge covers for excellent balance with life-like vocals and hi-end micro details. Now, if you decide to use them without the sponge covers, chances are you might find them on the bright side. There has only been several impressions and talk about them including my own many pages back on this thread. So, you can checkout my impressions on them at the link below...
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16316946
> 
> ...


Thanks for the review and suggestion. It seems they are good to buy. I guess EP05 or any earlier version than EP09 is not good. From your post, it seems that EP09 has good details and also good amount of Bass and Sub-Bass too. Hope the sound is not thin and it is warm and smooth enough.

Only thing I am wondering if it is possible to buy only Main Body and no cable? I already have two cables so do not want that more. Are you (or anyone else) aware any store which can sell only MMCX Earbud part. Thanks.


----------



## MelodyMood

Xinlisupreme said:


> Also mine!
> Gorgeous packaging 😊


I feel paying AUD $300 for Gorgeous Packaging is insane. Price is too expensive. I am sure that the manufacturing cost is not more than $20-25 or may be $35-40 for the company. But there are few earbuds for Ultra Rich people


----------



## Stuff Jones (Nov 22, 2021)

OK I'm back in the earbud game - placed an order for the Newbsound 32pro. I was tempted by the Chaconne and reports of its acoustical magic, especially at BF pricing, but I figured the cheaper more versatile Newbsound 32pro are a better way to figure out if I'll actually use earbuds. Thanks all for your feedback - I'll report back with impressions when I receive them.


----------



## mochill

Rick1982 said:


> Someone can compare Ve Zen 2.0 vs EM5, some Blurs and Newbsound?
> Are Zen 2.0 a solid performer after  several years?


Will get back to you on this , I have all to compare 😁


----------



## n00b

Stuff Jones said:


> OK I'm back in the earbud game - placed an order for the Newbsound 32pro. I was tempted by the Chaconne and reports of its acoustical magic, especially at BF pricing, but I figured the cheaper more versatile Newbsound 32pro are a better way to figure out if I'll actually use earbuds. Thanks all for your feedback - I'll report back with impressions when I receive them.


good call, if anything because you won’t have to deal with the potentially wonky/heavy Chaconne fit. I’m listening to my Chaconne right now and decided to keep them with the understanding that they’re not going to be my all-rounders, just a vocals + chill type bud. Hope you enjoy the 32pros, and if you do decide to grab another bud, the chaconne would be a great complement for a brighter signature


----------



## Barndoor

Add me to the earbud convert list!

Really enjoying the Yincrow X6 that you guys recommended. Have been using them with my Xduoo MT-602 amp. A bit of extra power really opens the X6 up.

Comfort isn't great for me, I must have strange shape ears.
Going to order some Hiegi foam and silicon rings to see if that helps. Will have a play with double foaming to see if that helps.

Going to be hard to resist buying a few pairs of random cheapo buds over the next few days! Maybe some of these:
- LBBS
- RW9
- Faaeal rosemary
- Vido
- Jcally EP05 or EP09
- Quan39

 Are either of the cheap VE's worth adding to that list (Monk plus or Lite)?


----------



## Ronion

If you don’t like the X6 fit, try some cheapos from other shapes.  The Monk Lite shape is almost invisible to my ear, and the PK shape is also very nice.  After about a year into buds, the MX500 no longer bother me, but they are still not the most stable in my ears.


----------



## Barndoor

Ronion said:


> If you don’t like the X6 fit, try some cheapos from other shapes.  The Monk Lite shape is almost invisible to my ear, and the PK shape is also very nice.  After about a year into buds, the MX500 no longer bother me, but they are still not the most stable in my ears.


Thanks 120 ohm Monk Lite added to my short(ish) list


----------



## Barndoor (Nov 22, 2021)

Anyone know what the $89 NiceHCK lucky bag is?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003538996727.html
From the review there is no mention, but a cable picture that looks like the EBX21. If so that looks to be a pretty good price.

Edit: I see this has already been confirmed as the EBX21 a few days ago.


----------



## re23071998

Ronion said:


> You think you can pull a driver out of an MX500 shell @Stuff Jones ?  Many people do it with a bottle opener.  It’s probably safer than with your teeth.  If so, for a few dollars you can tune a Tingo TG38s and have a world class bud.  Particularly for natural,
> acoustic instruments AND doubly so for recordings inside real spaces.  I have it and the LBBs and I’m sure you’ll find that they are 2 different leagues of resolution and spaciousness.  It’s the real diamond in the rough, but it does require tuning to get there.  If you don’t want to attempt it, the LBBs isn’t a bad way to go.  Comes tuned very nicely and has a great fit for me—better than an MX500.  The Cacophony is a notoriously poorer fitting bud….


how did you managed to open the tingo?
seems like it uses superglue in it


----------



## Ronion

Mine was not glued at all.


----------



## re23071998

Ronion said:


> Mine was not glued at all.


mine is tightly glued lol


----------



## Ronion

Maybe try to carefully slice the glue with a razor blade and avoid slicing yourself.  That sucks.


----------



## baskingshark

re23071998 said:


> current crowdfund prices are 64 for non pro and 158 for the pro
> half of the original prices 💸
> https://www.facebook.com/linhui20/posts/896515377899164



Thanks, I have just contributed money to the SMABAT crowdfund effort! Though I paid for the non pro one, as I'm not too certain how well a BA can be implemented in a earbud (very ambitious project though!)


----------



## Kamen555

My November purchase just arrived! Woohoo! My first PK shell n boy it's so comfy...


----------



## 1clearhead

MelodyMood said:


> Thanks for the review and suggestion. It seems they are good to buy. I guess EP05 or any earlier version than EP09 is not good. From your post, it seems that EP09 has good details and also good amount of Bass and Sub-Bass too. Hope the sound is not thin and it is warm and smooth enough.
> 
> Only thing I am wondering if it is possible to buy only Main Body and no cable? I already have two cables so do not want that more. Are you (or anyone else) aware any store which can sell only MMCX Earbud part. Thanks.


If you're planning to buy them and use them with the included sponge covers, then you should be fine, since they sound really good with them. But, if you plan not to use the sponge covers, then I suggest you're better off not buying them, since it will probably be on the bright side.

About getting them without the cable: Unless you have a Taobao account you can purchase them there without the cable, but everywhere else like Aliexpress you'll probably have to purchase them with the cable.

Hope this helps...

-Clear


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Kamen555 said:


> My November purchase just arrived! Woohoo! My first PK shell n boy it's so comfy...


Nice! Enjoy your VE Slims! Yes, the PK style shell is indeed very comfy!


----------



## Kamen555

WoodyLuvr said:


> Nice! Enjoy your VE Slims! Yes, the PK style shell is indeed very comfy!


Yea, been enjoying them with classical n jazz. Great sense of space, expansive with classical n kind of in ur face n intimate with jazz. 

Alot of energy in d higher frequency but there's enough bass for me.

Hasn't worked so well with rock, but it's still early.


----------



## EinTheVariance

I'm currently running Shozy Cygnus on a daily basis so thinking about upgrading.  I was initially going to go straight up to Shozy BK, but after doing some research, I'm looking at Fiio EM5 and Moondrop Chaconne as well.  It seems that the EM5 is disliked by some on this board, so is Chaconne still the way to go here around this price bracket or has something better shown up?


----------



## Richiyaado

> I'm currently running Shozy Cygnus on a daily basis so thinking about upgrading. I was initially going to go straight up to Shozy BK, but after doing some research, I'm looking at Fiio EM5 and Moondrop Chaconne as well. It seems that the EM5 is disliked by some on this
> board, so is Chaconne still the way to go here around this price bracket or has something better shown up?


I have and enjoy both. I have dinky ears, and can't use foams. The EM5, being lighter, is easier on my ears, and has a full, robust sound... maybe a tad more bass. The Chaconne is brighter-sounding, still with enough bass (for buds), but the weight in the ears can be a little fatiguing after awhile. The left Chaconne bud cut out after two days of use, and were replaced by the vendor... so the back and forth from China was time-consuming. The replacement pair work fine (so far), though. Less expensive buds I enjoy (and are small enough to fit) include the ISN Rambo II, and the LBBs.


----------



## Rick1982

mochill said:


> Will get back to you on this , I have all to compare 😁


I wait for your impressions. Many thanks!


----------



## EinTheVariance

Richiyaado said:


> I have and enjoy both. I have dinky ears, and can't use foams. The EM5, being lighter, is easier on my ears, and has a full, robust sound... maybe a tad more bass. The Chaconne is brighter-sounding, still with enough bass (for buds), but the weight in the ears can be a little fatiguing after awhile. The left Chaconne bud cut out after two days of use, and were replaced by the vendor... so the back and forth from China was time-consuming. The replacement pair work fine (so far), though. Less expensive buds I enjoy (and are small enough to fit) include the ISN Rambo II, and the LBBs.


sorry about your first chaconne, it's good that you got it replaced though.  Since we're dealing with chi-fi seems like it's unavoidable to have longer turn around.  Are you noticing any differences in detail retrieval between the two?


----------



## FranQL

Kamen555 said:


> My November purchase just arrived! Woohoo! My first PK shell n boy it's so comfy...


Well it's actually bigger than a normal PK shell ... but look, they look really good, and with some tuning the sound is pretty good.


----------



## Billyak

Just received my LBBs and EBX21.  Going to give them a couple of hours listen each before I form an opinion but my god the LBBs are good. The tone and tembre is amazing. The EBX seriously lack bass but going to give them a little EQ and see how I get on.


----------



## Rick1982

Billyak said:


> Just received my LBBs and EBX21.  Going to give them a couple of hours listen each before I form an opinion but my god the LBBs are good. The tone and tembre is amazing. The EBX seriously lack bass but going to give them a little EQ and see how I get on.


EBX21 has less bass than LBBs?


----------



## calcatreppola

Billyak said:


> Just received my LBBs and EBX21.  Going to give them a couple of hours listen each before I form an opinion but my god the LBBs are good. The tone and tembre is amazing. The EBX seriously lack bass but going to give them a little EQ and see how I get on.


what music you listen to?
with classical music ebx21's bass is very good... maybe with a good dac/amp... but I find it is correctly present, it is equilibrated with the overall frequencies' picture also with jazz and electronic. 
maybe you can try to rotate them towards the nose (so that their sound "converges"). Bass will incredibly "grow", although it will never be too heavy.


----------



## Billyak

Rick1982 said:


> EBX21 has less bass than LBBs?


There is not a lot of bass in either but there seems to be a lot more 4-8k in the EBX causing it to sound like the bass is missing more than anything. With the LBBs they are bass light but it does not sound incorrect.


----------



## Billyak

calcatreppola said:


> what music you listen to?
> with classical music ebx21's bass is very good... maybe with a good dac/amp... but I find it is correctly present, it is equilibrated with the overall frequencies' picture also with jazz and electronic.
> maybe you can try to rotate them towards the nose (so that their sound "converges"). Bass will incredibly "grow", although it will never be too heavy.


I am not really a believer in DACs and Amps being able to change the FR of earphones but I am using a chord mojo as my amp. 

As I say it's really early doors and my impressions were 10 mins after coming out of the box.


----------



## Billyak

Also I was listening to Bob Dylan and Florence and the machine which are very treble hot recordings generally.


----------



## n00b

With EBX21 I needed to use full foam with donut foam over it and MMCX cable that goes over the ear to get a secure fit and best seal possible for decent midbass without compromising clarity and  taming some treble harshness. LBBS sounded more suitable for my library and fit my ears better, shame because I love the EBX21 industrial design


----------



## Billyak

I have boosted a slope starting at 500hz down for the EBX. I tried double foams but it made them too big to fit in my ears.


----------



## Richiyaado

EinTheVariance said:


> sorry about your first chaconne, it's good that you got it replaced though. Since we're dealing with chi-fi seems like it's unavoidable to have longer turn around. Are you noticing any differences in detail retrieval between the two?


I'd have to give the Chaconne a very slight edge over the EM5s for revealing detail.


----------



## redshifter (Dec 10, 2021)

Just got the  Ksearphone Bell-LB from Amazon. I like them, nice clarity and with the the full foam (not the donut version) they have nice bass too, of course not very deep. The fit is perfect for my ears, and the silver cable is cool. Wish they included a portable case though. No left and right symbols, one bud has a logo and that's the right channel.

Edit: So I put them in the included over the ear adapters and used the donut foam, and wow the bass just came out of nowhere. These are hands down the best earbuds I've heard in this configuration, also very low profile. Getting the donut pads on are a challenge though.


----------



## Billyak

redshifter said:


> Just got the  Ksearphone Bell-LB from Amazon. I like them, nice clarity and with the the full foam (not the donut version) they have nice bass too, of course not very deep. The fit is perfect for my ears, and the silver cable is cool. Wish they included a portable case though. No left and right symbols, one bud has a logo and that's the right channel.


L & R confused me too.


----------



## waynes world

Billyak said:


> L & R confused me too.



What? Earbuds have a "left" and a "right"? Wow - learn something every day!


----------



## rkw

Billyak said:


> L & R confused me too.


Even when earbuds are marked, they are often hard to see.  I usually put on different color foams for L & R.


waynes world said:


> What? Earbuds have a "left" and a "right"? Wow - learn something every day!


Especially for classical orchestral recordings, it can be disorienting when the channels are reversed and the standard orchestra layout is flipped around. Of course you also want the channels correct when watching a video.


----------



## redshifter (Nov 24, 2021)

rkw said:


> Even when earbuds are marked, they are often hard to see.  I usually put on different color foams for L & R.
> 
> Especially for classical orchestral recordings, it can be disorienting when the channels are reversed and the standard orchestra layout is flipped around. Of course you also want the channels correct when watching a video.


Stereo recording get out of phase fast if you reverse the channels which can lower the bass. On further listening I've noticed a little sibilance on more complex music, like on Coldplay's Rush of Blood to the Head track, but nothing too bad; hopefully that will even out as they burn in. Simpler tracks like AiC Rotten Apple sound great, even the bass was solid. Mids remind me of my old Ety ER4P or course not as good, but similar tone. Just put on Bowie's Let's Dance. Where is that bass coming from lol?

Edit: these do come with a case! It was hidden in the packaging. A nice draw pouch.


----------



## baskingshark

Billyak said:


> I have boosted a slope starting at 500hz down for the EBX. I tried double foams but it made them too big to fit in my ears.



Another option other than double foams is perhaps to use a silicone ring of sorts.


----------



## Billyak

Tried the silicon rings out the box and the treble was still too hot.  Going to give them a good couple of days listening.  One thing I am not a huge fan of is the weight of the cable. It's a nice cable but the weight and material makes it awkward for fit and makes a lot of cable noise.


----------



## tgx78 (Nov 24, 2021)

EM5 (balanced foam covers) vs X6




EM5 vs Blur





Fiio EM5 arrived and it has this weird midrange dip akin to the Tia Fourte making soundstage quite wide, oval-shaped and airy. Using supplied donut foam cuts through lower mids warmth to make it more balanced sound. Pretty good so far..


----------



## emusic13

tgx78 said:


> EM5 (balanced foam covers) vs X6
> 
> 
> EM5 vs Blur
> ...


How are the mids on the Blur?


----------



## Penon (Nov 25, 2021)

Happy Thanksgiving Day ! Black Friday big sale with dozens of earbuds starts now !
*Check deals here:*
https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds
Thanks for your attention !


----------



## LongNguyenHorn

Hi all, i'm new here. Just want to ask which brand/product do you prefer as having mid-centric sound signature. Something like HD600.
I mostly listen to classical music so bass tight, fast and less quantity than mid, treble do not harsh, mid-centric is what i'm looking for.
Budget is about up to 400$.
Thanks for your recommend.


----------



## ian91 (Nov 25, 2021)

LongNguyenHorn said:


> Hi all, i'm new here. Just want to ask which brand/product do you prefer as having mid-centric sound signature. Something like HD600.
> I mostly listen to classical music so bass tight, fast and less quantity than mid, treble do not harsh, mid-centric is what i'm looking for.
> Budget is about up to 400$.
> Thanks for your recommend.



Possibly Blur 189 Hybrid MX64 aPs (64ohm) or the Blur 189 Hybrid MX150 aPs (150ohm) that should be slightly brighter but not harsh  . Check the model chart here. These models sit very closely in terms of tonality to the HD600.


----------



## LongNguyenHorn (Nov 25, 2021)

ian91 said:


> Possibly Blur 189 Hybrid MX64 aPs (64ohm) or the Blur 189 Hybrid MX150 aPs (150ohm) that should be slightly brighter but not harsh  . Check the model chart here. These models sit very closely in terms of tonality to the HD600.


Sorry for late reply but my place where i live only have Ve, Shozy, Moondrop, Yuin, Symphonio/Sunrise, Rose brand and need to buy blind because they don't have demo. So may you tell me which brand/product on this list follow mid centric sound signature like HD600.
I prefer tonality over than technical. Thanks you so much.


----------



## shenshen

LongNguyenHorn said:


> Sorry for late reply but my place where i live only have Ve, Shozy, Moondrop, Yuin, Symphonio/Sunrise, Rose brand and need to buy blind because they don't have demo. So may you tell me which brand/product on this list follow mid centric sound signature like HD600.
> I prefer tonality over than technical. Thanks you so much.


Blur earbuds can be shipped just about anywhere, they are made by Wong Kuan Wae on facebook or instagram (https://instagram.com/blurearbuds_boleh7?utm_medium=copy_link).


----------



## LongNguyenHorn

shenshen said:


> Blur earbuds can be shipped just about anywhere, they are made by Wong Kuan Wae on facebook or instagram (https://instagram.com/blurearbuds_boleh7?utm_medium=copy_link).


Thank you example if i can travel to Singapore. Do you know where to try his product or contact to buy from him ?


----------



## snapandslide

Ok so - had some actual time to listen to my EM5s. A bit of a delay but stuff got in the way etc. It's my first proper bud experience, so was looking forward to this! Note I definitely need to burn in more but can give a few quick impressions. All off on the DX300MAX SS - 

Main driver to try buds was for the openess of stage. It's definitely there, but something is not satisfying - I put that down to timbre being a bit off. It's not bad for $200 by any means, but it's noticeable. I agree with @tgx78 notes on the mid recess, not a huge issue for me; I am getting some peakiness in the treble which is a little annoying - hoping something which smooths with burn in? Interesting tuning and probably one that'll work better for electronic if the peakiness subsides.

Other technicalities are lacking compared to what I am used to. But again totally different price points. Comfort is good though, so they'll stay and be used as a work headphones as I appreciate the stage when working!


----------



## Rick1982

snapandslide said:


> Ok so - had some actual time to listen to my EM5s. A bit of a delay but stuff got in the way etc. It's my first proper bud experience, so was looking forward to this! Note I definitely need to burn in more but can give a few quick impressions. All off on the DX300MAX SS -
> 
> Main driver to try buds was for the openess of stage. It's definitely there, but something is not satisfying - I put that down to timbre being a bit off. It's not bad for $200 by any means, but it's noticeable. I agree with @tgx78 notes on the mid recess, not a huge issue for me; I am getting some peakiness in the treble which is a little annoying - hoping something which smooths with burn in? Interesting tuning and probably one that'll work better for electronic if the peakiness subsides.
> 
> Other technicalities are lacking compared to what I am used to. But again totally different price points. Comfort is good though, so they'll stay and be used as a work headphones as I appreciate the stage when working!


Are you using them with foam? Try them naked, I'm using mine with NiceHCK o-ring, tighter bass response, less mid bass emphasis and better technicalities. Even with Crisp Foam the sound is a little too "congested" to my ears.


----------



## rkw

LongNguyenHorn said:


> Thank you example if i can travel to Singapore. Do you know where to try his product or contact to buy from him ?


He is a one-person business. Actually it is probably more like an enthusiast hobby for him (I don't think it's possible to make a living from building custom earbuds). He runs his business from his Facebook page and that is the way to contact him. You can ask if he is willing to meet with you in Singapore.

If you haven't seen it, there is a Blur earbuds thread and it has contact information:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blur-earbuds-lovers.884062/


----------



## Barndoor

Barndoor said:


> Add me to the earbud convert list!
> 
> Really enjoying the Yincrow X6 that you guys recommended. Have been using them with my Xduoo MT-602 amp. A bit of extra power really opens the X6 up.
> 
> ...


Ordered LBBS, monk lite and plus.
Only ordered plus as I wanted to try both dongles (Avani and Abigail) VE are selling. Adding the plus hit a coupon level that made it a no brainer.
Down another rabbit hole I go! Luckily the price of top earbuds is way below that of top headphones or iems!


----------



## Star Ace

I am having trouble using my new Moondrop Chaconne earbuds. No matter what I do, they slowly-or quickly!-drift away from my ear, destroying the frequency response and volume. They hang in there lightly. But I am sure that is not the way it is supposed to be. I have tried pulling my ear upwards or downwards-it makes no difference. Once I feel "got it!" they start lossening up again. It cannot be that they are defective or ill designed. Suspecting user error or too large ears. But from this thread I got the impression that earbuds were "shoot and forget". It seems they are much harder than fitting an ER4SR, which is an easier experience for me.

I have zero (or do not recall) experience with earbuds, so if someone has an idea what I could be doing wrong, please let me know. Holding them in place they do sound amazing indeed, and it's a gift from tips I received by taking care of pets, so I have no desire to part with them. Want to make them work regardless my ear anatomy. Any help is deeply appreciated! I am a bit frustrated because I expected a much easier fit, since I have zero problems fitting all of my IEMs. 

And I do not mean to throw any shade to the Chaconne model. It sounds surprisingly excellent when they are "in place". I am not even sure how they are "supposed to sound", however, due to the fitting issue. 

Thanks to any and all that can offer their earbud experience. This is my real first one, and it is not cheap. Happy Holidays, and stay safe.


----------



## chavez

Star Ace said:


> I am having trouble using my new Moondrop Chaconne earbuds. No matter what I do, they slowly-or quickly!-drift away from my ear, destroying the frequency response and volume. They hang in there lightly. But I am sure that is not the way it is supposed to be. I have tried pulling my ear upwards or downwards-it makes no difference. Once I feel "got it!" they start lossening up again. It cannot be that they are defective or ill designed. Suspecting user error or too large ears. But from this thread I got the impression that earbuds were "shoot and forget". It seems they are much harder than fitting an ER4SR, which is an easier experience for me.
> 
> I have zero (or do not recall) experience with earbuds, so if someone has an idea what I could be doing wrong, please let me know. Holding them in place they do sound amazing indeed, and it's a gift from tips I received by taking care of pets, so I have no desire to part with them. Want to make them work regardless my ear anatomy. Any help is deeply appreciated! I am a bit frustrated because I expected a much easier fit, since I have zero problems fitting all of my IEMs.
> 
> ...


You need to use foams if you want them to grip and stay in your ear. If one foam is noy enough try to combine donut and a full foam. Sound may suffer a bit but that is the solution. Or order some silicone rings for earbuds, idk if they come with them or not.


----------



## uneri (Dec 11, 2021)

‎


----------



## n00b

I ended up *re-buying* the Fiio EM5 because of the black friday sale and I think it sounds better than what I originally thought the first time I got them, but they still are congested sounding. The vocal timbre is just not on the level of moondrop chaconne or LBBS, it is too husky sounding to the point of near buzziness. It does seem to resolve pretty well, or at least I get a better sense of microdetail than some of my other buds, but I think it can get fatiguing and are for sounds I don’t really care about or value. For instance, snares have a snappier sound to them and more texture, I can hear the echo/reverb of them a little better than say, the Newbsound 32pro. But when I compare to the Newbsound 32pro, the EM5 has slightly less bass quantity, extension, impact, and texture. And 32pro vocals are sweeter/not as dry, have a more natural timbre and the treble is smoother (although, combined with the bigger bass, its harder to make out microdetail).

So I’m not sure what the EM5’s niche is. The tuning is.. odd, but not.. bad, but at $200 it doesnt do bass as well as $75 newbsounds or vocals as well as $320 chaconne. I am not sure what to make of it. I have not done any burn in, so I’ll start doing that now, but because it is the worst fitting bud I own, I don’t know if I’d keep it AGAIN haha. I just wanted to try it again because it was getting so much praise in this thread that maybe I missed something the first time. Who can EM5 pill me?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Nov 27, 2021)

n00b said:


> I ended up *re-buying* the Fiio EM5 because of the black friday sale and I think it sounds better than what I originally thought the first time I got them, but they still are congested sounding. The vocal timbre is just not on the level of moondrop chaconne or LBBS, it is too husky sounding to the point of near buzziness. It does seem to resolve pretty well, or at least I get a better sense of microdetail than some of my other buds, but I think it can get fatiguing and are for sounds I don’t really care about or value. For instance, snares have a snappier sound to them and more texture, I can hear the echo/reverb of them a little better than say, the Newbsound 32pro. But when I compare to the Newbsound 32pro, the EM5 has slightly less bass quantity, extension, impact, and texture. And 32pro vocals are sweeter/not as dry, have a more natural timbre and the treble is smoother (although, combined with the bigger bass, its harder to make out microdetail).
> 
> So I’m not sure what the EM5’s niche is. The tuning is.. odd, but not.. bad, but at $200 it doesnt do bass as well as $75 newbsounds or vocals as well as $320 chaconne. I am not sure what to make of it. I have not done any burn in, so I’ll start doing that now, but because it is the worst fitting bud I own, I don’t know if I’d keep it AGAIN haha. I just wanted to try it again because it was getting so much praise in this thread that maybe I missed something the first time. Who can EM5 pill me?


The FiiO EM5, like the Moondrop Chaconne, is not an all-rounder per se but rather a one or two-trick pony. It is wonderful for specific music genres and/or preference'd signature tastes but will fail miserably for all-use purposes. It is most definitely a nice accompanying earbud to have in your collection for specific roles.


----------



## Billyak

I was listening to Bob Dylan on my LBBs last night and they were fantastic.  I value tembre over pretty much anything else and these nail it.


----------



## n00b

WoodyLuvr said:


> The FiiO EM5, like the Moondrop Chaconne, is not an all-rounder per se but rather a one or two-trick pony. It is wonderful for specific music genres and/or preference'd signature tastes but will fail miserably for all-use purposes. It is most definitely a nice accompanying earbud to have in your collection for specific roles.


i have no problem with that, but i still cant figure out what role it fills or pony it would trick? what would be good for them?


----------



## irv003

listening with X6 😎


----------



## Scuba Devils

n00b said:


> i have no problem with that, but i still cant figure out what role it fills or pony it would trick? what would be good for them?



Modern classical, ambient etc for me - especially where there might be field recordings and samples - so quite visceral with intricate details, perfect for EM5 and Chaconne. For example:


----------



## Star Ace

Thank you so much; ordering some silicone rings from Amazon that may or not be good quality. Aliexpress seems to take forever to ship to US unless you use DHL at an inflated price (I know it should not be $50 for shipping, even DHL, so someone is taking advantage of the customer.)

In the while, for those familiar with the Chaconnw shape, is there a manual or fitting guide to make sure I just do not know how to use them properly? I have large ears, and use ML or large sized tips for IEMs depending on brand, but it seems the Chaconne are large enough. Or maybe they aren't really? Treat me as someone that has never used this shape before.

Google is utterly useless, as the popularity of airpods, galaxy buds, "true wireless" etc. makes it so that I cannot even search for foams, rings, etc. anywhere. Are there specific terms to search for for this type of shape?

Yes, I sound like I was born yesterday. Just flabbergasted by the fitting. Not sure of the type of sound I should expect. Pressing on the ear sounds different than "mid insertion", and just hanging in there does not seem to be right either. My apologies and thanks.


----------



## n00b

Don't worry, the Chaconne are not the friendliest to fit because they have this linear angle from the 'face' of the buds which isn't really ergonomic. Combined with the heavier titanium shell and the extended stems, there's just a lot of weight without a lot of grip to deal with.

I used to have really bad fit with Chaconne, but now it's improved using HieGi full foams (which also adds warmth to them and gives them a nicer balanced tonality imo). My tip for putting in earbuds is to find the angle or position of your head where they tend to fall out. For me, this is when I look up. Then, put your head in that position and insert them where they feel the most secure -- in my instance, they're angled a little diagonally so that the stem sits in the 'notch' of your ear down by the earlobe (intertragic notch). I try to get them as angled down as much as possible so theres less torque from the weight of the stem + cable to rotate them down and out of your ear. You want to avoid having the stems facing too far forward and up.

So by securing the buds in the position they're most likely to fall out in, then returning to a neutral position, they should be pretty stable. YMMV but that's what works for me


----------



## n00b

Scuba Devils said:


> Modern classical, ambient etc for me - especially where there might be field recordings and samples - so quite visceral with intricate details, perfect for EM5 and Chaconne. For example:



thanks, unfortunately i dont listen to either of those genres lol. Now that you have the Chaconne, LBBS, 32pro, and your EM5 is out of commission, would you bother picking up another pair or are you happy with the first three to cover your bases? I have those 3 as well and am struggling to find a place for the EM5. If I can't figure them out after burn in I'll return them again, but at least give myself credit for giving them a second chance and confirming my impressions with my own ears and library.


----------



## Scuba Devils

n00b said:


> thanks, unfortunately i dont listen to either of those genres lol. Now that you have the Chaconne, LBBS, 32pro, and your EM5 is out of commission, would you bother picking up another pair or are you happy with the first three to cover your bases? I have those 3 as well and am struggling to find a place for the EM5. If I can't figure them out after burn in I'll return them again, but at least give myself credit for giving them a second chance and confirming my impressions with my own ears and library.



Yeah that's why they hit a sweet spot for me and definitely fall into a specialist niche - I love music like that while working, going to sleep or just generally relaxing - they are tuned perfectly (for my ears) for that type of music, plus the fact that they are so light and a fantastic cable. The Chaconne does those genres too - but clearly not as comfortable so I will most likely buy the EM5 at some point! 

I'm a big fan of single DD IEMs too and have been testing a tour unit of the new(ish) DUNU ZEN PRO over the last few days, incredible IEM and has me fixated on DD IEMs again! - much prefer to hybrids or multi BA etc. Clearly buds are a not-too-distant relative anyway.


----------



## irv003

and the cousins, 

X6 and Vido Black


----------



## feverfive

^^Imma have to seriously consider the Newbsound 32Pro.....maybe, hahaha.  I simply do not want a "collection" of gear that sit unused.  I almost listed the Penon BS1 Officials I received not even 2 weeks ago simply to avoid that, LOL.  Speaking of which, I am glad I didn't, because I am actually enjoying the BS1.  I find them to be a pleasant listen, inoffensive, and more resolving than I had anticipated.  I occasionally miss sub bass rumble when I watch certain movies, but that's not the BS1's fault.  Earbuds being earbuds, hahaha.

***Just curious, has anyone heard of movement regarding the *smabat ST20* development?  I know at least a few of us in this thread funded that "pre-order."***


----------



## Scuba Devils

feverfive said:


> ^^Imma have to seriously consider the Newbsound 32Pro.....maybe, hahaha.  I simply do not want a "collection" of gear that sit unused.  I almost listed the Penon BS1 Officials I received not even 2 weeks ago simply to avoid that, LOL.  Speaking of which, I am glad I didn't, because I am actually enjoying the BS1.  I find them to be a pleasant listen, inoffensive, and more resolving than I had anticipated.  I occasionally miss sub bass rumble when I watch certain movies, but that's not the BS1's fault.  Earbuds being earbuds, hahaha.
> 
> ***Just curious, has anyone heard of movement regarding the *smabat ST20* development?  I know at least a few of us in this thread funded that "pre-order."***



I rotate BS1 and LBBS mostly now while working due to their comfort and very pleasant tuning - easy to listen for ages and continue with my work. 

Haven't heard anything on the ST20 but I figured it was to be a 2022 thing - maybe we will hear something before Christmas.


----------



## mochill (Nov 27, 2021)

feverfive said:


> ^^Imma have to seriously consider the Newbsound 32Pro.....maybe, hahaha.  I simply do not want a "collection" of gear that sit unused.  I almost listed the Penon BS1 Officials I received not even 2 weeks ago simply to avoid that, LOL.  Speaking of which, I am glad I didn't, because I am actually enjoying the BS1.  I find them to be a pleasant listen, inoffensive, and more resolving than I had anticipated.  I occasionally miss sub bass rumble when I watch certain movies, but that's not the BS1's fault.  Earbuds being earbuds, hahaha.
> 
> ***Just curious, has anyone heard of movement regarding the *smabat ST20* development?  I know at least a few of us in this thread funded that "pre-order."***


You need it 😁 , heard from smabat that st20 and st20 pro will be released January or February of next year


----------



## Star Ace

n00b said:


> Don't worry, the Chaconne are not the friendliest to fit because they have this linear angle from the 'face' of the buds which isn't really ergonomic. Combined with the heavier titanium shell and the extended stems, there's just a lot of weight without a lot of grip to deal with.
> 
> I used to have really bad fit with Chaconne, but now it's improved using HieGi full foams (which also adds warmth to them and gives them a nicer balanced tonality imo). My tip for putting in earbuds is to find the angle or position of your head where they tend to fall out. For me, this is when I look up. Then, put your head in that position and insert them where they feel the most secure -- in my instance, they're angled a little diagonally so that the stem sits in the 'notch' of your ear down by the earlobe (intertragic notch). I try to get them as angled down as much as possible so theres less torque from the weight of the stem + cable to rotate them down and out of your ear. You want to avoid having the stems facing too far forward and up.
> 
> So by securing the buds in the position they're most likely to fall out in, then returning to a neutral position, they should be pretty stable. YMMV but that's what works for me


Thank Mr. n00b (obviously do not mean to offend!) Tried reading the manual just in case but I do not know chinese-so the section on the fit was only helpful because it more or less showed how it should fit. Matching that picture to your statement above of what you do managed to do the trick. Just shaking my head and indeed they stay in place and sound GOOD. And even when they shift a bit, it is very easy to fix it now. So even with the stock foams they work well despite my flawed ear anatomy (compared to the "standard".) Indeed I just think it has been user error all along-using earbuds is not as intuitive as I thought. But yes, I tried reading what you wrote many times until I got what you meant, and they are  staying in place, with minimal shifts here and there. So thank you for "fixing" my bad Chaconne fit!

The treble extension of the Chaconne is amazing. Beautiful, natural tone. I have not done any AB tests but it does match or exceed my better treble headphones/IEMs. One of my best 'phones to be sure. Its only con in my view is they are earbuds, but that also has its advantages. 

Looking forward to trying whatever accessories I can to ensure the fit is near unmovable. However, I was able to walk and take the subway without them becoming too much of a hassle (minus the non-isolation-I have better earphones for the subway but wanted to give the Chaconne a hard, practical test, as they were very difficult to enjoy until I better understood your post.)

I will see if I can find the foams you suggested in the US-haven't searched yet.

Happy holidays! 🎻


----------



## assassin10000 (Nov 28, 2021)

Star Ace said:


> Thank Mr. n00b (obviously do not mean to offend!) Tried reading the manual just in case but I do not know chinese-so the section on the fit was only helpful because it more or less showed how it should fit. Matching that picture to your statement above of what you do managed to do the trick. Just shaking my head and indeed they stay in place and sound GOOD. And even when they shift a bit, it is very easy to fix it now. So even with the stock foams they work well despite my flawed ear anatomy (compared to the "standard".) Indeed I just think it has been user error all along-using earbuds is not as intuitive as I thought. But yes, I tried reading what you wrote many times until I got what you meant, and they are  staying in place, with minimal shifts here and there. So thank you for "fixing" my bad Chaconne fit!
> 
> The treble extension of the Chaconne is amazing. Beautiful, natural tone. I have not done any AB tests but it does match or exceed my better treble headphones/IEMs. One of my best 'phones to be sure. Its only con in my view is they are earbuds, but that also has its advantages.
> 
> ...


Once you get the silicone rings, you may want to try putting the rings on then and the foam over those. That may help if your ears big enough for them both.


----------



## n00b

If you’re desperate, silicone wingtip over a foam helps lock it in place but it does get uncomfortable for me


----------



## Ronion

I’ve had the same issue @n00b.  The shark fin keeps my SMABAT in place, but after an hour or so the get irritating.  Occasionally I can get them set just right and it’s not an issue, but those days are rare and I don’t like working that hard for it.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Spoiler: Pictures




















ShoonTH ESEP-01BL mini review:

Rank: A

Non-sound: Microphonic cable, plastic/metal shell, inferior to MX500 shells in comfort/fit for me.

Sub-bass: poor extension and lack of rumble, doesn’t have much quantity and lacks texture, not particularly fast or tight despite the low quantity.

Mid-bass: A little bit elevated, decent texture is on the tighter/faster side.

Mids: Warm vocals, good tonality with both male and female, forward as well. Pretty clean as well.

Treble: warm vocals but is airy, not peaky but well-tuned.

Technicalities: Average soundstage, but impressive imaging and separation. Detail is average.


Overall: I don’t really think it is worth the price of around 30 usd. Its only a bit better than buds around 10 usd technically, and tonality wise at least for my library is inferior to those buds (Yincrow X6 & Faaeal Iris 2.0 for example). You are better off getting the K´s LBBS instead or sub 10 usd buds.


----------



## bach98

How do you order chínese earbud to the UK?


----------



## Sam L

mac os users. I'm happy to report that sound source has been in continual, active development with improvements and updates. Would be great if there was something like wavelet for iphone!


----------



## Sam L

n00b said:


> I ended up *re-buying* the Fiio EM5 because of the black friday sale and I think it sounds better than what I originally thought the first time I got them, but they still are congested sounding. The vocal timbre is just not on the level of moondrop chaconne or LBBS, it is too husky sounding to the point of near buzziness. It does seem to resolve pretty well, or at least I get a better sense of microdetail than some of my other buds, but I think it can get fatiguing and are for sounds I don’t really care about or value. For instance, snares have a snappier sound to them and more texture, I can hear the echo/reverb of them a little better than say, the Newbsound 32pro. But when I compare to the Newbsound 32pro, the EM5 has slightly less bass quantity, extension, impact, and texture. And 32pro vocals are sweeter/not as dry, have a more natural timbre and the treble is smoother (although, combined with the bigger bass, its harder to make out microdetail).
> 
> So I’m not sure what the EM5’s niche is. The tuning is.. odd, but not.. bad, but at $200 it doesnt do bass as well as $75 newbsounds or vocals as well as $320 chaconne. I am not sure what to make of it. I have not done any burn in, so I’ll start doing that now, but because it is the worst fitting bud I own, I don’t know if I’d keep it AGAIN haha. I just wanted to try it again because it was getting so much praise in this thread that maybe I missed something the first time. Who can EM5 pill me?


I'm sure you already know about these files, but I only listen to my em5's eq'd

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbud-target-curve-tests.944006/post-16199568


----------



## tgx78

Sam L said:


> I'm sure you already know about these files, but I only listen to my em5's eq'd
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbud-target-curve-tests.944006/post-16199568


which one do you use? There are like 5-6 different files.


----------



## Sam L (Nov 29, 2021)

tgx78 said:


> which one do you use? There are like 5-6 different files.


There are 2 variants for 3 files:
1. compensation across most of the listenable spectrum
2. compensation only to 10k

The 3 files are:
1. FixedBandEQ = 10 band Graphics EQ settings
2. PEQ = parametric settings
3. wavelet = settings for the android wavelet app (part of the autoeq project, but my file is compensated to my earbud target v1.5)

I use the PEQ file, full spectrum

edit:
Here's what the full spectrum bass peq file is doing:


----------



## Ronion

bach98 said:


> How do you order chínese earbud to the UK?


Are you able to order from AliExpress?  Penon should be able to do it.  SMABAT should be able to do it.  I’ve had great service from Penon and SMABAT.  AE is usually pretty good.


----------



## jao29

RikudouGoku said:


> Spoiler: Pictures
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are the Faaeal Iris 2.0 worth getting? I have the Snow Lotus 1.0 and I love them. 😊 And I warmed up to the Iris Ancestor as well. Is the Iris 2.0 worth getting if I already have those 2? Thanks!


----------



## Ronion

Sam L said:


> mac os users. I'm happy to report that sound source has been in continual, active development with improvements and updates. Would be great if there was something like wavelet for iphone!


Sound source is fantastic BTW.  You can even do binaural augmentation to any/every track.


----------



## baskingshark

feverfive said:


> ***Just curious, has anyone heard of movement regarding the *smabat ST20* development?  I know at least a few of us in this thread funded that "pre-order."***



Seems Smabat just made a post on FB today about the SMABAT ST20 hitting the crowdfunding targets:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/135840535288493/posts/231912322347980/

I didn't get any news since paying for the ST20 crowdfund though, but I think it was advertised to be released in jan/feb 2022, keeping fingers crossed.


----------



## FranQL

baskingshark said:


> Seems Smabat just made a post on FB today about the SMABAT ST20 hitting the crowdfunding targets:
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/135840535288493/posts/231912322347980/
> 
> I didn't get any news since paying for the ST20 crowdfund though, but I think it was advertised to be released in jan/feb 2022, keeping fingers crossed.



FYI

*De:* 服务 <service@smabat.com>
*Enviado el:* viernes, 19 de noviembre de 2021 1:47
*Para:* FranQL
*Asunto:* Re:Crowdfunding ST20

Hi Fran, thank you very much for recognizing our headset. The sound of ST20 is very good. It will definitely surprise you. Delivery will start from January to February 2022, please wait patiently, thank you


----------



## RikudouGoku

jao29 said:


> Are the Faaeal Iris 2.0 worth getting? I have the Snow Lotus 1.0 and I love them. 😊 And I warmed up to the Iris Ancestor as well. Is the Iris 2.0 worth getting if I already have those 2? Thanks!


Iris Ancestor is A
Iris 2.0 is A+

Since you already have the Ancestor, maybe its better to save up for something like the K´s LBBS instead, less redundant and much better.


----------



## Nool

Looks like smabat is selling just the M2S pro shell, for $25 https://a.aliexpress.com/_mN3xkDG

The 150ohm ST-10S driver also sells for $25, so now you can get the black gold ST-10S for ~$50 USD.

The M3 pro uses the same 150ohm driver and bass-vent design.. for ~$65. I wonder if they'll come out with a M3S pro with the same modular driver setup. It seems that these shells could be a universal solution for testing drivers off AliExpress. Having a bass vent seems to make a huge difference in my experience, I'd be interested to know what others have accomplished with these shells.


----------



## FranQL

Nool said:


> Looks like smabat is selling just the M2S pro shell, for $25 https://a.aliexpress.com/_mN3xkDG
> 
> The 150ohm ST-10S driver also sells for $25, so now you can get the black gold ST-10S for ~$50 USD.
> 
> The M3 pro uses the same 150ohm driver and bass-vent design.. for ~$65. I wonder if they'll come out with a M3S pro with the same modular driver setup. It seems that these shells could be a universal solution for testing drivers off AliExpress. Having a bass vent seems to make a huge difference in my experience, I'd be interested to know what others have accomplished with these shells.


It is more common for people to use smabat drivers in mx500 shell than to use universal drivers in smabat shell.


----------



## RikudouGoku

For you guys that are using my PEQ X6 simulation preset for the LBBS, you might want to give this a try. This is tuned to my preference target instead and is better IMO.


Low-shelf: 50hz, Q: 1.0, Gain: 3db
Low-shelf: 80hz, Q: 1.0, Gain: 13db
Low-shelf: 150hz, Q: 0.6, Gain: 1db
Low-shelf: 250hz, Q: 0.6, Gain: 1db
Peak: 3000hz, Q: 2.0, Gain: -1.5db
Peak: 5000hz, Q:3.0, Gain: -1.0db
High-shelf: 10 000hz, Q: 1.0, Gain: 3.5db
Preamp: -15db


----------



## gazzington

My lbbs arrived only a few days ago. So far I’m quite impressed. A very relaxed listen. I need to spend longer with it though


----------



## Heat1

is there a bud u guys would recommend for about 150$ CAD? I'm not super versed in the earbuds sphere but I've had a Kaiser 10 iem for a couple years now that i love the sound of but I cannot stand the fit so I almost never use them. No matter what tips I use from foams to spin fits it just irritates the inside of my ears so bad after just a little while of listening regardless of shallow or deep insertion. most IEM's I've tried from the Klipsch x10, Weston 3umx/4, Shure 535, Aurisonics asg 2/2.5 did the same but that Kaiser 10 has made it such a point that I have basically lost all interest in trying to use IEM's anymore.

As a result I just want an earbud that sounds pretty decent so I could listen to music away from my desk without my ears hurting. obviously even the best earbuds wont be able to even compare to the iems I'm familiar with but at this point comfort is worth about 100x more then sound for me which is extremely weird to say as an audiophile. anyways my only real reference points for earbuds are those 10$ Sony buds they sell at Walmart which are probably the worst things I've ever heard and the original apple buds which sounded pretty decent in my memory but I haven't listened to them in like 9 years, so hopefully a 150$ CAD earbud would be slightly better then those. for music i listen to everything besides country but I have a soft spot for female vocals and enjoy forward Mids. thanks.


----------



## waynes world (Nov 30, 2021)

Heat1 said:


> is there a bud u guys would recommend for about 150$ CAD? I'm not super versed in the earbuds sphere but I've had a Kaiser 10 iem for a couple years now that i love the sound of but I cannot stand the fit so I almost never use them. No matter what tips I use from foams to spin fits it just irritates the inside of my ears so bad after just a little while of listening regardless of shallow or deep insertion. most IEM's I've tried from the Klipsch x10, Weston 3umx/4, Shure 535, Aurisonics asg 2/2.5 did the same but that Kaiser 10 has made it such a point that I have basically lost all interest in trying to use IEM's anymore.
> 
> As a result I just want an earbud that sounds pretty decent so I could listen to music away from my desk without my ears hurting. obviously even the best earbuds wont be able to even compare to the iems I'm familiar with but at this point comfort is worth about 100x more then sound for me which is extremely weird to say as an audiophile. anyways my only real reference points for earbuds are those 10$ Sony buds they sell at Walmart which are probably the worst things I've ever heard and the original apple buds which sounded pretty decent in my memory but I haven't listened to them in like 9 years, so hopefully a 150$ CAD earbud would be slightly better then those. for music i listen to everything besides country but I have a soft spot for female vocals and enjoy forward Mids. thanks.



You're in for some happy discoveries. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with what you can get for $30CAD, let alone $150CAD. Have fun!

Edit: some easy recommendations:

Yincrow X6, $14US, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32807226027.html

Temperament (Ksearphone) LBBs, $54US, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html

Purebsound Newbsound 32pro, $75US + $15US shipping to Canada, contact @irv003 (I don't have these yet, but someday!)


----------



## Heat1

waynes world said:


> You're in for some happy discoveries. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with what you can get for $30CAD, let alone $150CAD. Have fun!
> 
> Edit: some easy recommendations:
> 
> ...


cool thanks for the recommendations! think ill pick up a pair of those Newbsounds and an X6 just as a backup and to give me  a comparison point for 4he newbsound.


----------



## waynes world

Heat1 said:


> cool thanks for the recommendations! think ill pick up a pair of those Newbsounds and an X6 just as a backup and to give me  a comparison point for 4he newbsound.



Yer welcome. I'm sure you'll be getting plenty of other recommendations soon as well (there are a lot of really great earbuds out there).


----------



## Heat1

waynes world said:


> Yer welcome. I'm sure you'll be getting plenty of other recommendations soon as well (there are a lot of really great earbuds out there).


im sure, tho the newbsound seems like a pretty safe choice in my price range based off the 20 or so pages of this thread I've read (4000 pages is daunting). the blur and em5 also look good but they are a little pricy for me to go straight too given my lack of experience in this section of head-fi.


----------



## waynes world

Heat1 said:


> im sure, tho the newbsound seems like a pretty safe choice in my price range based off the 20 or so pages of this thread I've read (4000 pages is daunting). the blur and em5 also look good but they are a little pricy for me to go straight too given my lack of experience in this section of head-fi.



You've obviously been playing this game for a while lol. Wise of you to stick with a few initially. The two that you're getting are pretty great for their respective prices, so if you're lucky, they will slow your descent into the earbud rabbit hole. Or, they will only accelerate it!


----------



## Ronion

Heat1 said:


> is there a bud u guys would recommend for about 150$ CAD? I'm not super versed in the earbuds sphere but I've had a Kaiser 10 iem for a couple years now that i love the sound of but I cannot stand the fit so I almost never use them. No matter what tips I use from foams to spin fits it just irritates the inside of my ears so bad after just a little while of listening regardless of shallow or deep insertion. most IEM's I've tried from the Klipsch x10, Weston 3umx/4, Shure 535, Aurisonics asg 2/2.5 did the same but that Kaiser 10 has made it such a point that I have basically lost all interest in trying to use IEM's anymore.
> 
> As a result I just want an earbud that sounds pretty decent so I could listen to music away from my desk without my ears hurting. obviously even the best earbuds wont be able to even compare to the iems I'm familiar with but at this point comfort is worth about 100x more then sound for me which is extremely weird to say as an audiophile. anyways my only real reference points for earbuds are those 10$ Sony buds they sell at Walmart which are probably the worst things I've ever heard and the original apple buds which sounded pretty decent in my memory but I haven't listened to them in like 9 years, so hopefully a 150$ CAD earbud would be slightly better then those. for music i listen to everything besides country but I have a soft spot for female vocals and enjoy forward Mids. thanks.


Blur PK32 is in that price range and it’s a TOTL kind of sound.  The shell is very comfortable for most people, the resolution is extreme, the FR is flat and extended on both ends, and it can be driven to ear bleeding levels with a 1V output.  It’s cable is stiff and microphonic however.  With a clothing clamp is improves for activity.


----------



## emusic13

Ronion said:


> Blur PK32 is in that price range and it’s a TOTL kind of sound.  The shell is very comfortable for most people, the resolution is extreme, the FR is flat and extended on both ends, and it can be driven to ear bleeding levels with a 1V output.  It’s cable is stiff and microphonic however.  With a clothing clamp is improves for activity.


Last I know, the pk32 is nowhere near the $150 CAD range. Its more around $269 SGD ($250 CAD)


----------



## DBaldock9

Ronion said:


> Are you able to order from AliExpress?  Penon should be able to do it.  SMABAT should be able to do it.  I’ve had great service from Penon and SMABAT.  AE is usually pretty good.



It's been a while since I ordered earbuds from Penon, but I did buy the LZ A4 Pro earphones on 12-Nov, and they shipped from Hong Kong to Houston, TX in 10 days,  via DHL.


----------



## Ronion

emusic13 said:


> Last I know, the pk32 is nowhere near the $150 CAD range. Its more around $269 SGD ($250 CAD)


Yeouch!  Sorry I didn’t realize the conversation rate was so different.  Haven’t looked at such things for many years.


----------



## BotByte

Heat1 said:


> cool thanks for the recommendations! think ill pick up a pair of those Newbsounds and an X6 just as a backup and to give me  a comparison point for 4he newbsound.


I second the X6 rec, but maybe hold off on other and more expensive buds before you try them. X6 are warm, slightly bassy buds so easy to recommend and work future recommendations from. After then you might want more highs, more bass, more warmth, soundstage, etc.. 

That's where I started... and honestly, haven't touched my X6s for a while. Still good, but I've got ones that suit my preferences better now.


----------



## Nool

FranQL said:


> It is more common for people to use smabat drivers in mx500 shell than to use universal drivers in smabat shell.


Ah yeah, forgot the mx500 stem acts as a bass vent as well lol. Still interested in these smabat shells for longevity + ease of tuning.

I'll check out the DIY thread for recommended drivers.


----------



## feverfive

baskingshark said:


> Seems Smabat just made a post on FB today about the SMABAT ST20 hitting the crowdfunding targets:
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/135840535288493/posts/231912322347980/
> 
> I didn't get any news since paying for the ST20 crowdfund though, but I think it was advertised to be released in jan/feb 2022, keeping fingers crossed.


To add to this:

I received an email from service@smabat.com around 1:30AM my time today asking me to provide my phone # for shipping purposes.  I responded as requested, and I also asked whether I can get a cable terminated 4.4mm balanced.  In any event, it seems things are proceeding nicely.


----------



## feverfive

feverfive said:


> To add to this:
> 
> I received an email from service@smabat.com around 1:30AM my time today asking me to provide my phone # for shipping purposes.  I responded as requested, and I also asked whether I can get a cable terminated 4.4mm balanced.  In any event, it seems things are proceeding nicely.


I also just went to the crowd funding order page link that was provided upthread...it shows the ST 20 priced now at $128 and the Pro at $316.  https://www.smabat.com/collections/hifi耳机/products/crowdfunding-st20-st20-pro?variant=41664977567913

Must be close to release.


----------



## Scuba Devils

Yeah got that email too from Smabat, does feel like it's close. Looking forward to it, delighted I opted in.


----------



## Heat1

Ronion said:


> Yeouch!  Sorry I didn’t realize the conversation rate was so different.  Haven’t looked at such things for many years.


thanks for the thought but yea the current conversion rate for CAD is kinda wack. like the EM5 is 340$ CAD right now as well.


----------



## BrianLHR

Received my lbbs recently, have tried stuffs like chaconne, smabats, blurs, but gotta say the lbbs is incredibly well-rounded. 

Though eq is certainly not needed, they respond well to eq. Most comfy shell i have encountered thus far + able to wear these both downwards and iem-style. Last but not least, doesnt make a hole in my wallet!

Would gladly say lbbs is my endgame "general purpose" bud


----------



## Billyak

BrianLHR said:


> Received my lbbs recently, have tried stuffs like chaconne, smabats, blurs, but gotta say the lbbs is incredibly well-rounded.
> 
> Though eq is certainly not needed, they respond well to eq. Most comfy shell i have encountered thus far + able to wear these both downwards and iem-style. Last but not least, doesnt make a hole in my wallet!
> 
> Would gladly say lbbs is my endgame "general purpose" bud


I was listening to my LBBs for about 3 hours non stop today. I could not take them out of my ears.


----------



## waynes world

BrianLHR said:


> Received my lbbs recently, have tried stuffs like chaconne, smabats, blurs, but gotta say the lbbs is incredibly well-rounded.
> 
> Though eq is certainly not needed, they respond well to eq. Most comfy shell i have encountered thus far + able to wear these both downwards and iem-style. Last but not least, doesnt make a hole in my wallet!
> 
> Would gladly say lbbs is my endgame "general purpose" bud



Agreed. Score another round for @RikudouGoku!

What I like about them:
- Packaging doesn't usually factors into my evaluation very much, but the packaging is very impressive! And nice collection of foams, plus the ear hooks.
- Cable is very nice.
- Form factor of the buds themselves is great.
- SQ is wonderful. It's only been a day, but yeah, they're keepers


----------



## Stuff Jones (Dec 2, 2021)

Been listening to the Newbsound 32pro for the last few days. Here are a few somewhat random impressions and thoughts from someone with very little earbud experience.

Earbuds are to IEMs what open headphones are to closed headphones. Just a completely different, more open and in many ways more natural sound. If you're an IEM person who does some listening in quiet environments and doesnt want to buy new headphone gear (a HP amp and DAC), I don't see why you wouldn't own some earbuds.
@irv003 is a pleasure to deal with. Super responsive and helpful.
I was expecting more bass roll off on earbuds, given the lack of seal. These actually rumble a bit! Similarly treble extension is better than I was expecting.
Overall the the tuning is good with some but not too much warmth. There's just one peak I hear around 4k to 5k that gets a little hot sometimes on some tracks.
Better resolution than I was expecting at 75 dollars. Maybe more like  200 to 300 dollar IEM resolution?
I have the impression that timbre is influenced by the housing material of an IEM/HP/earphone. Wood (ZMF or JVC) reproduces wood timbre like guitars and cellos very well. Metal does metal instruments like brass better. I don't have scientific proof, and could be full of crap, but that's how I've heard things. The 32pro are lightweight plastic, and one weakness I hear is that the timbre is a little plasticky. I wonder if denser material would produce a denser tone?
Once you overcome the fact that they're earbuds and not IEMs, they're very comfortable. Super light.
Cable is microphonic.
Overall, I think the 32pro are an audio steal for 75 dollars and I would think a great entry point to the world of earbuds. I would be interested to hear what @irv003 could do trying to go a little upmarket with improved housing.


----------



## InvisibleInk

Stuff Jones said:


> Been listening to the Newbsound 32pro for the last few days. Here are a few somewhat random impressions and thoughts from someone with very little earbud experience.
> 
> Earbuds are to IEMs what open headphones are to closed headphones. Just a completely different, more open and in many ways more natural sound. If you're an IEM person who does some listening in quiet environments and doesnt want to buy new headphone gear (DAC and Amp), I don't see why you wouldn't own some earbuds.
> @irv003 is a pleasure to deal with. Super responsive and helpful.
> ...



This is good information! Have you tried wearing the buds over-ear instead of straight down?


----------



## mochill

Everyone needs to get the 32pro


----------



## Star Ace

Old news ("old" product), but loving the Chaconne. Took a long time to figure out how to properly wear them due to inexperience with earbuds, but was worth the wait the first few days of ignorance. Wonderful sound, top to bottom, bass is represented neutrally but it is not thin at all. The highs are extended, just as I love them, but they avoid harshness without ever becoming an overly warm presentation. All in all, a great tonal signature without any weaknesses for my musical taste-all my music sounds great on it.

Many excellent neutral headphones and earphones do not sound like the Chaconne. As I stated previously, their "con" is isolation and possible fit issues-being earbuds. Bass is of fine quality, and only "bad" if you really need lots of quantity. I love these 'phones very much, and I have no other Moondrop product, so have no "allegiance" whatsoever. Just excellent sounding.

Thanks so much for all your help and fit/accessory recommendations.

Did order the rings and foams suggested-will see if they make the fit more snug, but I have been using them daily with great pleasure even with the stock foams.

Happy Holidays; enjoy your music! 🎻


----------



## waynes world

mochill said:


> Everyone needs to get the 32pro



I've been around here long enough to know that you're a dangerous man @mochill!

Having said that, I think you're probably right


----------



## Scuba Devils

Stuff Jones said:


> Been listening to the Newbsound 32pro for the last few days. Here are a few somewhat random impressions and thoughts from someone with very little earbud experience.
> 
> Earbuds are to IEMs what open headphones are to closed headphones. Just a completely different, more open and in many ways more natural sound. If you're an IEM person who does some listening in quiet environments and doesnt want to buy new headphone gear (DAC and Amp), I don't see why you wouldn't own some earbuds.
> @irv003 is a pleasure to deal with. Super responsive and helpful.
> ...



Great analysis and I too would love to see what @irv003 could come up with at a higher price with overall upgrade to cable, shell etc - I'd be one of the first in line to purchase.


----------



## bach98

any cheap earbud that I can buy in the uk?


----------



## Xinlisupreme

feverfive said:


> To add to this:
> 
> I received an email from service@smabat.com around 1:30AM my time today asking me to provide my phone # for shipping purposes.  I responded as requested, and I also asked whether I can get a cable terminated 4.4mm balanced.  In any event, it seems things are proceeding nicely.


Me too, i know it is 50ohm but i'd be sure to have enough juice from W2 to drive ST20


----------



## rprodrigues

@irv003 

What kind of 15.4mm drivers 32pro use?


----------



## irv003

rprodrigues said:


> @irv003
> 
> What kind of 15.4mm drivers 32pro use?


15.4mm 32 ohms n52 magnet drivers 
(no special film material).

If i am using special drivers i would always declare it as part of the model names like below.

2019 - (Bisoy Buds Black) BBB v1 (32Ω)
2019 - BBB v2 (32Ω)
2019 - BBB v2.5 (32Ω)
2020 - Newbsound32 (32Ω)
2021 - Silver Docomo (16Ω)
2021 - Newbsound Lite (32Ω)
2021 - Newbsound X (32Ω)
2021 - Newbsound 140 (140Ω)
2021 - Newbsound 32LCP LCP driver (32Ω)
2021 - Newbsound 130LCP LCP driver (130Ω)
2021 - Newbsound Bio (32Ω)
2021 - Newbsound Vido (32Ω)
2021 - Newbsound PK (16Ω)

2021 - Newbsound 32pro (32Ω) current model


----------



## rprodrigues

irv003 said:


> 15.4mm 32 ohms n52 magnet drivers
> (no special film material).
> 
> If i am using special drivers i would always declare it as part of the model names like below.
> ...


Thank you for sharing.

From all the reviews here, it's clear that you have achieved a really great performance from such drivers.

Congrats!


----------



## mochill

waynes world said:


> I've been around here long enough to know that you're a dangerous man @mochill!
> 
> Having said that, I think you're probably right


Indeed I've been here long enough and have many earbuds and iems , now way past 1000+ and it's still growing. But this 32pro is so right in so many ways that when inserted in the ears that you'll forget about analyzing and just drift into the world of music 🎵🎶


----------



## irv003

rprodrigues said:


> Thank you for sharing.
> 
> From all the reviews here, it's clear that you have achieved a really great performance from such drivers.
> 
> Congrats!


thanks bro! i appreciate it🙂

it is more of building my target / preferred sound and sharing it to others.


----------



## n00b

For people curious about MX500, Chaconne, and LBBS fit, I made some diagrams that I hope help. The LBBS fits me best, then MX500 fits me good, Chaconne is a bit of a struggle. The main reasons for the Chaconne not fitting as well is because its housing does not have any contour past the face plate to better rest between the intertragic notch of my ear. In addition to that, the weight of titanium + the long stems torque the housing away from the ear too.


----------



## gazzington

My newbsound 32 pro have arrived. These sound bloody fantastic. Absolute bargain.


----------



## mochill

Yaaaaaas , more people should get . The poison is real 😁


----------



## gazzington

I highly recommend these buds. I can believe the sq i get out of earbuds like these for so much less money than iems


----------



## Scuba Devils

gazzington said:


> I highly recommend these buds. I can believe the sq i get out of earbuds like these for so much less money than iems



Yeah phenomenal buds - 100% the first I'd now recommend if in budget.


----------



## gazzington

Scuba Devils said:


> Yeah phenomenal buds - 100% the first I'd now recommend if in budget.


Yeah I think I agree. Very open headphone like sound. Amazing bass


----------



## Xinlisupreme

Pk32 o Pk32 pro?


----------



## emusic13

I agree too, the Newbsound are definitely great.


----------



## gazzington

Xinlisupreme said:


> Pk32 o Pk32 pro?


32 pro


----------



## gazzington

emusic13 said:


> I agree too, the Newbsound are definitely great.


I’ve got a tera too, I’ll try it with that tomorrow


----------



## ElectricKaibutu

ElectricKaibutu said:


> I've been out of the earbud game for a year or so. I have these:
> 
> VE Monk+, RY4S UE, Fengru Silver, Vido, Yincrow X6, Philips SHE3800.
> 
> Any new sub $20 MX500 style come on the scene that I should check out?


I'm quoting myself since I've been going back and listening to all my earbuds again and have to say Fengru Silver are on another level. I never really gave them much of a chance since I had ordered a bunch of earbuds around the same time and kind of hated the cable, but they sound great! Punchy bass, nice vocals. I noticed they have an mmcx version. I'm thinking about picking up the gun-metal colored one and a cable from XINHS and calling it my end game earbud. I'm going to listen to them for another week or so before pulling the trigger.


----------



## mochill

Xinlisupreme said:


> Pk32 o Pk32 pro?


Newbsound 32pro


----------



## gazzington

mochill said:


> Newbsound 32pro


My advice is just buy a set while you can. Absolutely brilliant


----------



## Charlyro222 (Dec 2, 2021)

I agree with all of you.
Newbsound 32pro is a really outstanding earbud. Far better than most of the IEMS I have tested.


----------



## Pawelekdabek

mochill said:


> Newbsound 32pro


I can't find any store that sells these. How do I get them in EU?


----------



## Star Ace

n00b said:


> For people curious about MX500, Chaconne, and LBBS fit, I made some diagrams that I hope help. The LBBS fits me best, then MX500 fits me good, Chaconne is a bit of a struggle. The main reasons for the Chaconne not fitting as well is because its housing does not have any contour past the face plate to better rest between the intertragic notch of my ear. In addition to that, the weight of titanium + the long stems torque the housing away from the ear too.


Indeed the Chaconne was not user friendly to me, though I must also blame my utter ignorance. Thankfully, they stay quite well in place now, using a similar position than yours. My ears are different and larger, so the stem is perhaps just slightly lower-but I use the tragus as a guide to fit them, now done easily by feel (nozzles touch tragus in an specific way I feel with my index fingers.)

Was trying to wear them in ways all sort of wrong. Too used to IEMs, and not many earbuds in my music listening life. Made my ears sore at times! Now it is more "shoot and forget" as initially expected. Took a while, though.

I am waiting for the rings and the HIeGI foams on the mail (ordered through Amazon US for faster service.) But at least the Chaconne are usable now. Gotta say I am concerned the foams may kill upper mids/treble from what I have read. I am not treble sensitive, and do not find the Chaconne bright or offensive with the stock foams. But if the fit is perfect and snug, it will perhaps be worth it. Otherwise I can always use the stock foams with the rings.

Thanks so much for all your efforts above!


----------



## shenshen

Pawelekdabek said:


> I can't find any store that sells these. How do I get them in EU?


They are made and sold by @irv003 .


----------



## teamdbatz

emusic13 said:


> Last I know, the pk32 is nowhere near the $150 CAD range. Its more around $269 SGD ($250 CAD)


wow it sells around 269 SGD now. mine is around 95 Cad converted when i got it in 2019.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Dec 2, 2021)

emusic13 said:


> Last I know, the pk32 is nowhere near the $150 CAD range. Its more around $269 SGD ($250 CAD)


Correct. Newer and higher tier model, now.


teamdbatz said:


> wow it sells around 269 SGD now. mine is around 95 Cad converted when i got it in 2019.


Completely different model now with different driver, cabling, and terminations plus time explains the increased cost.

Please note that your particular model was specifically made to offer beginner earbud enthusiasts the opportunity to experience the Blur house sound at a lower price bracket. It was considerably lower in price to the other higher tiered models at the time.

A PK sized 32ohm driver is now only available via the 266R Reference line:

*Blur 266R MX/PK Reference* (MX 32/64/150/300Ω aPs; MX 400Ω non-aPs; *PK 32Ω*; 266v4 aka "266 Clear" cabling)


----------



## teamdbatz

WoodyLuvr said:


> Correct. Newer and higher tier model, now.
> 
> Completely different model now with different driver, cabling, and terminations plus time explains the increased cost.
> 
> ...


the pk32 is the cheapest blur that i have (excluding the blur vido got it for free) and the last that i bought from Wong. the most expensive blur i have is the blur coax 150 in silver shell like 5-6x higher. this begginer earbud enthusiast pk32 as you describe beats my entire buds collection atleast in my ears...


----------



## tgx78 (Dec 3, 2021)

*Newbsound 32Pro*

Just got this and first thing I notice is a sweet tea (or maybe Thai milk tea?) like scent from the earbuds itself lol. Love this fragrance but it's a bit weird to smell it from the audio device.

Sound is quite good out of the box. There is this “zip” to attacks, tonal density and dynamic weight to the upper bass and lower midrange, and slam to the mid-bass. Sub-bass roll-off is not as severe as the lbbs for example. Overall tonality is very smooth and pleasing. Imaging is not as precise as some of my upper tier IEMs, but the soundstage feels quite open and naturally proportioned. There is a bit of colorations to the sound from upper mids to lower treble region. This results in a slightly dark, woody hue overlying the natural tonality of instruments, some elongation (or truncation) of the duration of the dynamic/harmonic envelope, and a masking of fine detail. For the price I paid however, I would say the Newbsound 32Pro is a great value. This easily competes with the more expensive EM5 and surpasses the Blur (mx64) for me.


----------



## Scuba Devils

Wonderful ambient mix by Coldcut and Mixmaster Morris... beautiful on Chaconne.


----------



## Ymer Niros

Kumonomukou said:


> Anyone have takes on these supposed 'Tingo TC200 Pro'?
> 
> They look alright, and I was okay with original Tingo back in the day. I figured it could be a good deal if these sounded half decent.


I just received them and they are excellent for the price. I love them


----------



## Nool

tgx78 said:


> *Newbsound 32Pro*
> 
> Just got this and first thing I notice is a sweet tea (or maybe Thai milk tea?) like scent from the earbuds itself lol. Love this fragrance but it's a bit weird to smell it from the audio device.
> 
> Sound is quite good out of the box. There is this “zip” to attacks, tonal density and dynamic weight to the upper bass and lower midrange, and slam to the mid-bass. Sub-bass roll-off is not as severe as the lbbs for example. Overall tonality is very smooth and pleasing. Imaging is not as precise as some of my upper tier IEMs, but the soundstage feels quite open and naturally proportioned. There is a bit of colorations to the sound from upper mids to lower treble region. This results in a slightly dark, woody hue overlying the natural tonality of instruments, some elongation (or truncation) of the duration of the dynamic/harmonic envelope, and a masking of fine detail. For the price I paid however, I would say the Newbsound 32Pro is a great value. This easily competes with the more expensive EM5 and surpasses the Blur (mx64) for me.


Could you (or anyone else reading this) compare the technicalities of the newbsound 32pro against the Yincrow RW-9? Differences in resolution, staging, note weight, etc. I notice they are similarly tuned. Thanks for making those measurements btw!


----------



## Stuff Jones

InvisibleInk said:


> This is good information! Have you tried wearing the buds over-ear instead of straight down?



Not yet - I didn't know it was possible!


----------



## InvisibleInk

Stuff Jones said:


> Not yet - I didn't know it was possible!



Worth a try


----------



## FranQL

gazzington said:


> My advice is just buy a set while you can. Absolutely brilliant


Mmmmmmmmm I don't think it will run out of a set of these either ..... at least due to lack of stock ...


----------



## tgx78

Nool said:


> Could you (or anyone else reading this) compare the technicalities of the newbsound 32pro against the Yincrow RW-9? Differences in resolution, staging, note weight, etc. I notice they are similarly tuned. Thanks for making those measurements btw!


Similarly tuned but the 32pro is a bit more technical than the Yincrow RW-9. Hard to compare them directly because the RW-9 is single ended and the 32pro is balanced. Using them both on my M8 which has a better channel separation & amplification on 4.4mm output- 32pro is musically detailed. RW-9 is just musical


----------



## jkjk123

tgx78 said:


> *Newbsound 32Pro*
> 
> Just got this and first thing I notice is a sweet tea (or maybe Thai milk tea?) like scent from the earbuds itself lol. Love this fragrance but it's a bit weird to smell it from the audio device.
> 
> Sound is quite good out of the box. There is this “zip” to attacks, tonal density and dynamic weight to the upper bass and lower midrange, and slam to the mid-bass. Sub-bass roll-off is not as severe as the lbbs for example. Overall tonality is very smooth and pleasing. Imaging is not as precise as some of my upper tier IEMs, but the soundstage feels quite open and naturally proportioned. There is a bit of colorations to the sound from upper mids to lower treble region. This results in a slightly dark, woody hue overlying the natural tonality of instruments, some elongation (or truncation) of the duration of the dynamic/harmonic envelope, and a masking of fine detail. For the price I paid however, I would say the Newbsound 32Pro is a great value. This easily competes with the more expensive EM5 and surpasses the Blur (mx64) for me.


I noticed the smell as well! Same thoughts as you, I quite like the scent but it is a bit strange on a pair of earbuds. Makes for a nice pleasant surprise whenever I take them out of the case.

Another thing i realized from using these earbuds is that due to the lack of isolation, more bass is needed in order for it not to be lost to background noise. I tried putting noise canceling headphones over these earbuds amd found myself wanting less bass. I wish there could be something with the comfort, portability, soundstage, and sound quality of earbuds but with isolation.


----------



## Ronion

tgx78 said:


> Similarly tuned but the 32pro is a bit more technical than the Yincrow RW-9. Hard to compare them directly because the RW-9 is single ended and the 32pro is balanced. Using them both on my M8 which has a better channel separation & amplification on 4.4mm output- 32pro is musically detailed. RW-9 is just musical


Well, that’s it.  I’m getting them.


----------



## waynes world

Ronion said:


> Well, that’s it.  I’m getting them.


 
Me too. Couldn't take it any longer. Resistance non-existence. Done.


----------



## LongNguyenHorn (Dec 4, 2021)

Hi all i would like to ask among these earbud which one have fastest, cleanest, tightest bass. Rose Maria/Mojito, Moondrop Chaconne, Symphonio Dragon 3, Shozy BK, VE Zen 2.0, Astrotec Lyra Nature LE. I don't need about bass quantity. Thank you.


----------



## RikudouGoku

LongNguyenHorn said:


> Hi all i would like to ask among these earbud which one have fastest, cleanest, tightest bass. Rose Maria/Mojito, Moondrop Chaconne, Symphonio Dragon 3, Shozy BK, VE Zen 2.0, Astrotec Lyra Nature LE. I don't need about bass quantity. Thank you.


Well...I will be able to answer about the Chaconne and Lyra Nature LE next week probably.


----------



## LongNguyenHorn

RikudouGoku said:


> Well...I will be able to answer about the Chaconne and Lyra Nature LE next week probably.


Thank you.


----------



## daveu

Hello guys, right now i have a second pair of the yincrow X6. I really love the sound, but i am looking for better bass extension with the similar sound. Is there some of a branded earbud, that fits the criteria? Thanks


----------



## jao29

daveu said:


> Hello guys, right now i have a second pair of the yincrow X6. I really love the sound, but i am looking for better bass extension with the similar sound. Is there some of a branded earbud, that fits the criteria? Thanks


I recommend the Willsound Mkii. Sub bass is similar to the X6 while retaining better mids and highs.


----------



## emusic13

gazzington said:


> I’ve got a tera too, I’ll try it with that tomorrow


How is it?


----------



## calcatreppola

Heat1 said:


> is there a bud u guys would recommend for about 150$ CAD? I'm not super versed in the earbuds sphere but I've had a Kaiser 10 iem for a couple years now that i love the sound of but I cannot stand the fit so I almost never use them. No matter what tips I use from foams to spin fits it just irritates the inside of my ears so bad after just a little while of listening regardless of shallow or deep insertion. most IEM's I've tried from the Klipsch x10, Weston 3umx/4, Shure 535, Aurisonics asg 2/2.5 did the same but that Kaiser 10 has made it such a point that I have basically lost all interest in trying to use IEM's anymore.
> 
> As a result I just want an earbud that sounds pretty decent so I could listen to music away from my desk without my ears hurting. obviously even the best earbuds wont be able to even compare to the iems I'm familiar with but at this point comfort is worth about 100x more then sound for me which is extremely weird to say as an audiophile. anyways my only real reference points for earbuds are those 10$ Sony buds they sell at Walmart which are probably the worst things I've ever heard and the original apple buds which sounded pretty decent in my memory but I haven't listened to them in like 9 years, so hopefully a 150$ CAD earbud would be slightly better then those. for music i listen to everything besides country but I have a soft spot for female vocals and enjoy forward Mids. thanks.


I know I am late (boys, how much do you write LoL)... but I would suggest also a different try: Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis


----------



## gazzington

emusic13 said:


> How is it?


Really, really good. Best pair ups so far are the r01 and tera


----------



## Kukuster

mochill said:


>


What's the model?


----------



## n00b

toneking viridis


----------



## earmonger

RikudouGoku said:


> Iris Ancestor is A
> Iris 2.0 is A+
> 
> Since you already have the Ancestor, maybe its better to save up for something like the K´s LBBS instead, less redundant and much better.


If an $8 earbud is A+ why pay more???


----------



## RikudouGoku

earmonger said:


> If an $8 earbud is A+ why pay more???


Cuz we are greedy.    

(Diminishing returns hits very hard for buds...)


----------



## calcatreppola

earmonger said:


> If an $8 earbud is A+ why pay more???


this has been my question for very long time... if it can help, people who are in the game (or in the deep rabbit-hole) mean that for their specific price range they are to be considered that good. 
I would also add that sometimes, depending on your "taste", they can be better than more expensive objects... but when you start listening to higher grade earbuds/iem/headphones you understand the higher cost. 
And than the carrots... even if you have carrots for the next six years you might crave to have carrots for one more year, even if you know that they are not as good as the fresh ones, or they are not completely grown. 
Personally I am quite satisfied, I am using ebx21 and waiting for my Blur and I think I must stop... but I always check shops and offers for something (that I know I don't need, I can't afford and I don't have place for it). At the same time I enjoy Monk lite because I can use it the easy way... And I know perfectly well that my listening is preferable with ebx21... I will go back to it. But Monk is so smooth... very good for 9 euro... Still my 200 euro ebx is great. And is worth every single cent I paid for it. When I listen music with it and with my xd05bal I perfectly know that the budget I put on it is the budget I needed for listening good (for now)


----------



## rprodrigues

earmonger said:


> If an $8 earbud is A+ why pay more???



With some soldering skills and no more than $ 20, most of us would be done...


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> Cuz we are greedy.
> 
> (Diminishing returns hits very hard for buds...)



Haha it is preaching to the choir to ask on headfi "why are you buying more audio gear"?

That's like asking an alcoholic why are you drinking alcohol? I think we all need to see a shrink!


----------



## Headcasey MD

Heat1 said:


> is there a bud u guys would recommend for about 150$ CAD? I'm not super versed in the earbuds sphere but I've had a Kaiser 10 iem for a couple years now that i love the sound of but I cannot stand the fit so I almost never use them. No matter what tips I use from foams to spin fits it just irritates the inside of my ears so bad after just a little while of listening regardless of shallow or deep insertion. most IEM's I've tried from the Klipsch x10, Weston 3umx/4, Shure 535, Aurisonics asg 2/2.5 did the same but that Kaiser 10 has made it such a point that I have basically lost all interest in trying to use IEM's anymore.
> 
> As a result I just want an earbud that sounds pretty decent so I could listen to music away from my desk without my ears hurting. obviously even the best earbuds wont be able to even compare to the iems I'm familiar with but at this point comfort is worth about 100x more then sound for me which is extremely weird to say as an audiophile. anyways my only real reference points for earbuds are those 10$ Sony buds they sell at Walmart which are probably the worst things I've ever heard and the original apple buds which sounded pretty decent in my memory but I haven't listened to them in like 9 years, so hopefully a 150$ CAD earbud would be slightly better then those. for music i listen to everything besides country but I have a soft spot for female vocals and enjoy forward Mids. thanks.


EBX21  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003538996727.html
Same shell size as B40 I believe, most people like it.
Classical/acoustic, bass may be light for others.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Dec 6, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> *K's Temperament 钛铃 "Titanium Ling" Bell-Ti (120Ω)
> 3.5TRRS Balanced aka HiFiMan 3.5mm Type*
> 
> *No. 831/1000*
> ...





WoodyLuvr said:


> Well... bad news folks the right channel on my *Ks Bell-Ti 120Ω* is going... gone! 🤮
> It started going out intermittently earlier today (either softening in volume and/or totally turning off) and it would correct if I wiggled and/or disconnected the plug. I thought it might be due to a bad adapter cable so I changed it with another one with the same results.
> I think believe the wiring of the right driver was poorly soldered as now the right channel isn't working at all.





WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, I definitely could but as I bought them from my buddy, Jim @ NiceHCK, I rather not hit him with this big headache at the moment... business is a critical point for him at the moment and this would hurt him badly in the wallet as he would have to cover the cost 100%. One of the dangers of selling mainland China brands as a dealer and buying as a customer.
> 
> At least I got a solid three (3) months and four (4) days of good use out of them !





WoodyLuvr said:


> I will have a "full report" of the issue posted on this here thread shortly.
> 
> Apparently, there have been a number of these "cable issues" reported over on the Chinese forums which I had completely missed 😭 before my purchase and of course heard about after-the-fact. Drats!





WoodyLuvr said:


> Not ignoring you good sir. I am patiently awaiting the following two (2) items before posting:
> 
> additional feedback from some of our audiophile comrades over on erji.net and a few of the other Chinese audiophile forums
> return of my Ks Bell-Ti 120Ω earbuds expertly repaired by Wong @ Blur who refused to keep them due to their value but more so because he simply felt bad for me (yes, he is that stellar of a human being indeed!)





WoodyLuvr said:


> Damn, sorry about the bad luck there mate. I certainly know how that feels. When my Ks Bell-Ti 120's right driver went out on me I felt sick to my stomach.
> 
> Never fear, Wong will certainly sort it all out for you and promptly so as he truly stands by his buds . I know of only one _confirmed_ *complete driver failure* and a few _confirmed_ *driver errors (mismatch or rattle)* which Wong immediately replaced, repaired, retuned, and/or sorted out without question. So they do happen but fortunately for us we have Wong 'The Gentleman' always at hand to rectify. I have yet to know of any _confirmed_ *cable & connector failures* to date which I find to be an absolutely astonishing feat for earbuds.


Well bad news folks... the left driver went out on me on my *K's Temperament 钛铃 "Titanium Ling" Bell-Ti (120Ω)* earbuds earlier today. As many of you might already be aware (see above) the right channel earbud had failed earlier on me months ago due to both shoddy cabling and a severe driver voice coil fault which Wong @ Blur managed to repair for me 🤮

I am definitely done with the brand as a whole now and contemplating if I should keep the brand as a whole on my God-Tier List still or not... might simply remove the Bell-Ti models altogether leaving the Bell-Blue and Bell-LBBs on the list with a QC warning. Although the Bell-Ti models have an excellent warm & relaxing signature I am reluctant to continue to recommend them in case others get burned.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

baskingshark said:


> Haha it is preaching to the choir to ask on headfi "why are you buying more audio gear"?
> 
> That's like asking an alcoholic why are you drinking alcohol? I think we all need to see a shrink!


I assure you that we are fully in control, thank you very much. Who are we hurting? No one! So why the inquisition? Mind your own business! We are not as bad as you... you are the one with the real problem buddy not us! We can stop wanting and/or acquiring more earbuds at any time we choose, within a moment's notice if we please, completely without issue if we want to... apparently, unlike you. And unlike you, we actually deserve another pair of earbuds... or two... or three just like everyone else!


----------



## jao29

WoodyLuvr said:


> Well bad news folks... the left driver went out on me on my *K's Temperament 钛铃 "Titanium Ling" Bell-Ti (120Ω)* earbuds earlier today. As many of you might already be aware (see above) the right channel earbud had failed earlier on me months ago due to both shoddy cabling and a severe driver voice coil fault which Wong @ Blur managed to repair for me 🤮
> 
> I am definitely done with the brand as a whole now and contemplating if I should keep the brand as a whole on my God-Tier List still or not... might simply remove the Bell-Ti models altogether leaving the Bell-Blue and Bell-LBBs on the list with a QC warning. Although the Bell-Ti models have an excellent warm & relaxing signature I am reluctant to continue to recommend them in case others get burned.


Oh my.. Does the Onmyoji have the Qc issues as well? I’m still using mine but I’m kind of scared now because of the numerous issues that have been happening for quite sometime now.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Both cables measures pretty bad at 0.92 (copper) and 0.95 (silver). Only donut foams are included and they tear instantly.


LongNguyenHorn said:


> Hi all i would like to ask among these earbud which one have fastest, cleanest, tightest bass. Rose Maria/Mojito, Moondrop Chaconne, Symphonio Dragon 3, Shozy BK, VE Zen 2.0, Astrotec Lyra Nature LE. I don't need about bass quantity. Thank you.



Forget about the Lyra nature LE, this is embarrassingly bad. Calling it overpriced is an understatement. It isnt competing at that range, its competing at the sub 10 usd range.

Literally has worse soundstage and timbre than the Faaeal Iris 2.0 with comparable detail imaging and separation. What a joke.


----------



## digititus

RikudouGoku said:


> Both cables measures pretty bad at 0.92 (copper) and 0.95 (silver). Only donut foams are included and they tear instantly.
> 
> 
> Forget about the Lyra nature LE, this is embarrassingly bad. Calling it overpriced is an understatement. It isnt competing at that range, its competing at the sub 10 usd range.
> ...


Don't be shy. Tell us what you really think!


----------



## digititus

Spent the weekend with the Fiio EM5. My initial impressions are:
1. It's still working
2. Sounds rather good. Quite like it!


----------



## RikudouGoku

digititus said:


> Don't be shy. Tell us what you really think!


Not bothering with an impression. Will be done with the review today probably.....


----------



## Chessnaudio

RikudouGoku said:


> Both cables measures pretty bad at 0.92 (copper) and 0.95 (silver). Only donut foams are included and they tear instantly.
> 
> 
> Forget about the Lyra nature LE, this is embarrassingly bad. Calling it overpriced is an understatement. It isnt competing at that range, its competing at the sub 10 usd range.
> ...


Oh my!


----------



## RikudouGoku

Review coming up in a minute or two.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Astrotec Lyra Nature Limited Edition review: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/astrotec-lyra-nature-limited-edition.25223/reviews#review-27442

Rank: D+

Yeah, uhm. Not recommended. Instead of sending out review units to shillers, use that money to actually do something good….


----------



## Chessnaudio (Dec 6, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Astrotec Lyra Nature Limited Edition review: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/astrotec-lyra-nature-limited-edition.25223/reviews#review-27442
> 
> Rank: D+
> 
> Yeah, uhm. Not recommended. Instead of sending out review units to shillers, use that money to actually do something good….


It looks gorgeous. I love the green and gold scheme, but yeah, $400 is a lot of money for fancy dead weight


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 6, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Well bad news folks... the left driver went out on me on my *K's Temperament 钛铃 "Titanium Ling" Bell-Ti (120Ω)* earbuds earlier today. As many of you might already be aware (see above) the right channel earbud had failed earlier on me months ago due to both shoddy cabling and a severe driver voice coil fault which Wong @ Blur managed to repair for me 🤮
> 
> I am definitely done with the brand as a whole now and contemplating if I should keep the brand as a whole on my God-Tier List still or not... might simply remove the Bell-Ti models altogether leaving the Bell-Blue and Bell-LBBs on the list with a QC warning. Although the Bell-Ti models have an excellent warm & relaxing signature I am reluctant to continue to recommend them in case others get burned.


Oh no.  

Gonna send it back to see if he can work his magic a 2nd time?


Maybe time to buy a 2nd turandot? To replace the one that has been on 'permanent loan'.


----------



## LongNguyenHorn

RikudouGoku said:


> Astrotec Lyra Nature Limited Edition review: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/astrotec-lyra-nature-limited-edition.25223/reviews#review-27442
> 
> Rank: D+
> 
> Yeah, uhm. Not recommended. Instead of sending out review units to shillers, use that money to actually do something good….


Thank you now i know i will buy the Chaconne. Hopefully its bass fast enough for me.


----------



## LongNguyenHorn

One last question @RikudouGoku which one have smaller driver size shell. MX500 ( Yincrow X6 ) or Chaconne. Because Mx500 a little bit big for me. Thanks


----------



## re23071998

LongNguyenHorn said:


> One last question @RikudouGoku which one have smaller driver size shell. MX500 ( Yincrow X6 ) or Chaconne. Because Mx500 a little bit big for me. Thanks


the second


----------



## LongNguyenHorn

re23071998 said:


> the second


Thanks


----------



## Scuba Devils

Debating adding Shozy BK to the collection - wondering though will it add a different slant to other higher quality buds in my collection? - 32pro, pk32 new line, Chaconne?


----------



## chinmie

Scuba Devils said:


> Debating adding Shozy BK to the collection - wondering though will it add a different slant to other higher quality buds in my collection? - 32pro, pk32 new line, Chaconne?



I'd personally would go with the Simphonio Dragon 2+ or 3 instead of the BK.


----------



## Scuba Devils

chinmie said:


> I'd personally would go with the Simphonio Dragon 2+ or 3 instead of the BK.



I was looking at both but a big jump in price. What would you say are the strengths vs Shozy?


----------



## gazzington

chinmie said:


> I'd personally would go with the Simphonio Dragon 2+ or 3 instead of the BK.


I prefer the newbsound to the shozy to be honest.  I think its a dragon or chaconne for me next plus another dd iem!


----------



## Scuba Devils

gazzington said:


> I prefer the newbsound to the shozy to be honest.  I think its a dragon or chaconne for me next plus another dd iem!



I have both Penon Serial and Shozy BK in my Penon cart but I might switch BK to Dragon - big price difference though.


----------



## gazzington

Scuba Devils said:


> I have both Penon Serial and Shozy BK in my Penon cart but I might switch BK to Dragon - big price difference though.


There are a few different versions of the dragon too.  Which is the one to go for?


----------



## Scuba Devils

gazzington said:


> There are a few different versions of the dragon too.  Which is the one to go for?



Yeah not sure. Going from Dragon 2 single to balanced alone is a $100 difference!


----------



## gazzington

Scuba Devils said:


> Yeah not sure. Going from Dragon 2 single to balanced alone is a $100 difference!


Yeah, I've just looked. Thats a bit silly really.  I'd just get the single ended.  The other Dragon is very pricey


----------



## chinmie

Scuba Devils said:


> I was looking at both but a big jump in price. What would you say are the strengths vs Shozy?



i think it's a better earbud in technical performance, better layering and better soundstage positioning/separation compared to the BK. the BK is not bad in any means though, i just think the SWDs are better. 
Also because of the very popular BK in my country, i had the chance to test multiple units, and there are slight differences in sound, so i personally a bit cautious about the BK.


----------



## Scuba Devils

chinmie said:


> i think it's a better earbud in technical performance, better layering and better soundstage positioning/separation compared to the BK. the BK is not bad in any means though, i just think the SWDs are better.
> Also because of the very popular BK in my country, i had the chance to test multiple units, and there are slight differences in sound, so i personally a bit cautious about the BK.



Excellent, thank you. Have you tried both 2 and 3 of Dragon?


----------



## chinmie

Scuba Devils said:


> Excellent, thank you. Have you tried both 2 and 3 of Dragon?



i have only heard the SWD2+, but if I'm not mistaken @WoodyLuvr has heard both of them


----------



## Nool

RikudouGoku said:


> Astrotec Lyra Nature Limited Edition review: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/astrotec-lyra-nature-limited-edition.25223/reviews#review-27442
> 
> Rank: D+
> 
> Yeah, uhm. Not recommended. Instead of sending out review units to shillers, use that money to actually do something good….


MRS (Super* Review) also thought one of the Astrotec Lyra buds was pretty awful, ranked lowest out of ten buds:


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Dec 7, 2021)

Scuba Devils said:


> Debating adding Shozy BK to the collection - wondering though will it add a different slant to other higher quality buds in my collection? - 32pro, pk32 new line, Chaconne?





chinmie said:


> I'd personally would go with the Simphonio Dragon 2+ or 3 instead of the BK.





gazzington said:


> There are a few different versions of the dragon too.  Which is the one to go for?





Scuba Devils said:


> Yeah not sure. Going from Dragon 2 single to balanced alone is a $100 difference!





gazzington said:


> Yeah, I've just looked. Thats a bit silly really.  I'd just get the single ended.  The other Dragon is very pricey





chinmie said:


> i think it's a better earbud in technical performance, better layering and better soundstage positioning/separation compared to the BK. the BK is not bad in any means though, i just think the SWDs are better.
> Also because of the very popular BK in my country, i had the chance to test multiple units, and there are slight differences in sound, so i personally a bit cautious about the BK.





Scuba Devils said:


> Excellent, thank you. Have you tried both 2 and 3 of Dragon?





chinmie said:


> i have only heard the SWD2+, but if I'm not mistaken @WoodyLuvr has heard both of them


I have heard and/or owned all of them now starting from the original Sunrise Audio SWD from c2010 all the way up to the latest released model the SWD3+ and they have progressively gotten better with each model release. I didn't really care for the first two early models which I found to be shouty and harsh (quite aggressive) and they were quite excited which really wore me out. It wasn't until I heard the SWD2+ that I started to appreciate their signature and started recommending them though be warned they are treble leaning (slightly bright). The SWD2+, SWD2LE, SWD3, and the new SWD3+ all exhibit a slightly naughty sharpness in the treble area which I personally still find to be quite fatiguing.

2021 - Simphonio SW-Dragon 3 Plus (120Ω; aka "*SWD3+*")​2020 - Simphonio SW-Dragon 2 Limited Edition (120Ω; aka "*SWD2LE*")​2019 - Simphonio SW-Dragon 3 (150Ω; aka "*SWD3*")​2017 - Simphonio SW-Dragon 2 Plus (16Ω; aka "Sunrise Audio *SWD2+*")​2012 - Sunrise Audio (Simphonio) SW-Dragon II (120Ω; aka "*SWD2*")​2010 - Sunrise Audio (Simphonio) SW-Dragon (150Ω; 110+/-3dB; aka "*SWD*")​​So the *Shozy BK* is a good choice if you prefer a warmer signature and the *Simphonio SWD3+ *if you like treble and are not turned off by bright characteristics. The SWD3+ does offer more details and better timbre than either the SWD3 or the SWD2+ which I found to be very similar (believe I liked the lower impedance SWD2+ better than the SWD3). The Simphonios are quite resolving probably perfect for critical listening such as grand dynamic classical pieces.

Price - Value wise the Shozy BK is the better bang for your buck earbud than the Simphonios which I believe really are way overpriced but that is only my opinion and they are good earbuds nonetheless.


----------



## daveu

What is the best bass you heard in an earbud?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

daveu said:


> What is the best bass you heard in an earbud?


*Blur 256 PK16 White Face LE* (16Ω; Ultimate Basshead Limited Edition)


----------



## Scuba Devils

WoodyLuvr said:


> I have heard and/or owned all of them now starting from the original Sunrise Audio SWD from c2010 all the way up to the latest released model the SWD3+ and they have progressively gotten better with each model release. I didn't really care for the first two early models which I found to be shouty and harsh (quite aggressive) and they were quite excited which really wore me out. It wasn't until I heard the SWD2+ that I started to appreciate their signature and started recommending them though be warned they are treble leaning (slightly bright). The SWD2+, SWD2LE, SWD3, and the new SWD3+ all exhibit a slightly naughty sharpness in the treble area which I personally still find to be quite fatiguing.
> 
> 2021 - Simphonio SW-Dragon 3 Plus (120Ω; aka "*SWD3+*")​2020 - Simphonio SW-Dragon 2 Limited Edition (120Ω; aka "*SWD2LE*")​2019 - Simphonio SW-Dragon 3 (150Ω; aka "*SWD3*")​2017 - Simphonio SW-Dragon 2 Plus (16Ω; aka "Sunrise Audio *SWD2+*")​2012 - Sunrise Audio (Simphonio) SW-Dragon II (120Ω; aka "*SWD2*")​2010 - Sunrise Audio (Simphonio) SW-Dragon (150Ω; 110+/-3dB; aka "*SWD*")​​So the *Shozy BK* is a good choice if you prefer a warmer signature and the *Simphonio SWD3+ *if you like treble and are not turned off by bright characteristics. The SWD3+ does offer more details and better timbre than either the SWD3 or the SWD2+ which I found to be very similar (believe I liked the lower impedance SWD2+ better than the SWD3). The Simphonios are quite resolving probably perfect for critical listening such as grand dynamic classical pieces.
> 
> Price - Value wise the Shozy BK is the better bang for your buck earbud than the Simphonios which I believe really are way overpriced but that is only my opinion and they are good earbuds nonetheless.



Excellent, thank you! What do you think on Shozy versus Newbsound 32pro and Blur 266 pk32 New Line? Does it offer something complementary?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Scuba Devils said:


> Excellent, thank you! What do you think on Shozy versus Newbsound 32pro and Blur 266 pk32 New Line? Does it offer something complementary?


Sorry, I have yet to hear a Newbsound.

The Shozy BK is a tad smoother and darker than the Blur 266 PK32 New Line which is more mid-centric and definitely more mid-forward.


----------



## digititus

Scuba Devils said:


> Debating adding Shozy BK to the collection - wondering though will it add a different slant to other higher quality buds in my collection? - 32pro, pk32 new line, Chaconne?


If you're looking for a different style and signature bud, how about Yincrow RW-2000 or the new 3000? Different housing and sound signature and something I think you might just like.


----------



## bach98

What glue to use for broken ear bud?  Im in the UK


----------



## Scuba Devils

digititus said:


> If you're looking for a different style and signature bud, how about Yincrow RW-2000 or the new 3000? Different housing and sound signature and something I think you might just like.



Oh yes good shout!


----------



## n00b

Scuba Devils said:


> Oh yes good shout!


We don't have many (english) impressions of the new RW-3000s, if youre willing to take one for the team I'd really appreciate comparisons. Mainly curious what other flagship MMCX buds have to offer. M2s Pro is hard to beat for the value right now though


----------



## Scuba Devils

n00b said:


> We don't have many (english) impressions of the new RW-3000s, if youre willing to take one for the team I'd really appreciate comparisons. Mainly curious what other flagship MMCX buds have to offer. M2s Pro is hard to beat for the value right now though



I'd probably wait on the RW-3000 for a bit. I'm ordering something now that I'm certain I'll have for Christmas, a present for myself on the day! So it has to be from sellers that use DHL etc and don't charge crazy shipping fees. Shozy tempting as available from Penon and I'm considering an IEM from there too.


----------



## rkw

daveu said:


> What is the best bass you heard in an earbud?


For me, the FiiO EM5 but unfortunately I didn't get along with its treble. However, you need to be more specific about what you mean about "best" bass. Strong bass for a basshead? Sub-bass extension? Neutral, accurate bass?


----------



## syazwaned

Does anyone know where I could find k's k300 samsara? Been looking but cannot find them anywhere


----------



## baskingshark

daveu said:


> What is the best bass you heard in an earbud?



Smabat ST10S Black Gold (assuming it is amped). As in quantity and subbass extension is the best I've tried in a earbud, but the quality isn't necessarily the best.


----------



## syazwaned

Hi, does anyone know where I found find 
Ks K300 Samsara?​


----------



## emusic13

syazwaned said:


> Hi, does anyone know where I found find
> Ks K300 Samsara?​


Link wouldn't work but if you type in ksearphone exactly like below in Aliexpress, you can scroll down a little bit and find them.


----------



## syazwaned

emusic13 said:


> Link wouldn't work but if you type in ksearphone exactly like below in Aliexpress, you can scroll down a little bit and find them.


ah thanks


----------



## syazwaned

emusic13 said:


> Link wouldn't work but if you type in ksearphone exactly like below in Aliexpress, you can scroll down a little bit and find them.


It named differently right? Reincarnation


----------



## emusic13

syazwaned said:


> It named differently right? Reincarnation


It should be Samsara since the description has it there as well. I think its the F version but it might be best to wait for someone else to confirm or to message the shop instead since I'm not too sure what the differences are.


----------



## jogawag

syazwaned said:


> It named differently right? Reincarnation





emusic13 said:


> It should be Samsara since the description has it there as well. I think its the F version but it might be best to wait for someone else to confirm or to message the shop instead since I'm not too sure what the differences are.



"Samsara" means Reincarnation.


----------



## RikudouGoku

syazwaned said:


> It named differently right? Reincarnation





emusic13 said:


> It should be Samsara since the description has it there as well. I think its the F version but it might be best to wait for someone else to confirm or to message the shop instead since I'm not too sure what the differences are.


Yes, option "F" is what I got.













https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002512975421.html


----------



## gazzington

RikudouGoku said:


> Yes, option "F" is what I got.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


do they still sell this earbud?  I couldn't find one when I looked a few weeks back


----------



## syazwaned

emusic13 said:


> It should be Samsara since the description has it there as well. I think its the F version but it might be best to wait for someone else to confirm or to message the shop instead since I'm not too sure what the differences are.


Thanks Friends. Appreciate your help 😊


----------



## RikudouGoku

gazzington said:


> do they still sell this earbud?  I couldn't find one when I looked a few weeks back


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002512975421.html


----------



## syazwaned

RikudouGoku said:


> Yes, option "F" is what I got.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Goku, been thinking on getting this one after reading your review. As I already Asura 2.0 and m2s + super one, would it be redundant?


----------



## syazwaned

jogawag said:


> "Samsara" means Reincarnation.


Thank you buddy 😍


----------



## RikudouGoku

syazwaned said:


> Thanks Goku, been thinking on getting this one after reading your review. As I already Asura 2.0 and m2s + super one, would it be redundant?


No clue on the Asura. But M2S and Super One are very different, no redundancy there.


----------



## syazwaned

RikudouGoku said:


> No clue on the Asura. But M2S and Super One are very different, no redundancy there.


Appreciate it buddy


----------



## gazzington

RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002512975421.html


Thanks mate.  I think I'll order one


----------



## RikudouGoku

gazzington said:


> Thanks mate.  I think I'll order one


Just an FIY; I have the K´s K300 on the way. No idea if it is a budget Samsara K300, but maybe you should wait for me to get it.

If I am lucky, that package should be in my hands on this friday. If not early next week (it is already in Sweden).


----------



## Ronion

bach98 said:


> What glue to use for broken ear bud?  Im in the UK


I’d probably use whichever cyanocrylate glue is available for you.  In the USA it’s Super Glue or Crazy Glue.


----------



## daveu

rkw said:


> For me, the FiiO EM5 but unfortunately I didn't get along with its treble. However, you need to be more specific about what you mean about "best" bass. Strong bass for a basshead? Sub-bass extension? Neutral, accurate bass?


Overall (but thumpy, little on the basshead side), not necessarily to bleed into other regions. I tried a lot of budget earbuds (ve monks plus, some faaeal, fengru..) but nothing came to close at all to yincrow X6. Looking for something better, can be pricey. Must be worth it tho, because for price like 200+ USD you can buy 58X, 6XX... (EM5 price = HarmonicDyne Zeus price).


----------



## waynes world

daveu said:


> Overall (but thumpy, little on the basshead side), not necessarily to bleed into other regions. I tried a lot of budget earbuds (ve monks plus, some faaeal, fengru..) but nothing came to close at all to yincrow X6. Looking for something better, can be pricey. Must be worth it tho, because for price like 200+ USD you can buy 58X, 6XX... (EM5 price = HarmonicDyne Zeus price).



Yincrow X6 does indeed rock. Newbsound 32pro's might be worthy bass-wise (inbound, I'll let you know). Some of my favorite earbud bass thus far is out of the ST10 Black/Gold.


----------



## digititus

Concur with @waynes world . The ST10 Black/Gold when given enough power has excellent bass. Pretty smooth overall with the occasional sharp tone. I like it a lot.


----------



## mochill

Scuba Devils said:


> I have both Penon Serial and Shozy BK in my Penon cart but I might switch BK to Dragon - big price difference though.


You don't need dragon , you're good with the newbsound 32pro


----------



## syazwaned

RikudouGoku said:


> Just an FIY; I have the K´s K300 on the way. No idea if it is a budget Samsara K300, but maybe you should wait for me to get it.
> 
> If I am lucky, that package should be in my hands on this friday. If not early next week (it is already in Sweden).


IF that so, I will wait for the review Goku. I am no exactly money right now to buy Samsara k300


----------



## RikudouGoku

syazwaned said:


> IF that so, I will wait for the review Goku. I am no exactly money right now to buy Samsara k300


Depends if it deserves a review. I do have a backlog of other review units to review after all.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Found the ultimate earbud. 





https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/rbpqqz/blursed_earphones/

🤣


----------



## waynes world

RikudouGoku said:


> Found the ultimate earbud.
> 
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/rbpqqz/blursed_earphones/
> ...



Excellent - perfect shower accessory!


----------



## Kamen555

Got this in the mail. Woohoo! 😍

Seems quite delicate, n the no-stem design makes it fidly to position in the ear. 

The sound is awesome though, very balanced n good bass. Daft punk's Giorgio by Moroder was a great listen through these; thick n musical.


----------



## Ronion

The one thing that makes me cautious about recommending the LBBs is the build quality.   Though it’s very nicely machined and assembled, the design makes me feel cautious.  I’m careful with my things though and haven’t had any issues.  My wife would have definitely broke it by now.


----------



## assassin10000

Ronion said:


> I’d probably use whichever cyanocrylate glue is available for you.  In the USA it’s Super Glue or Crazy Glue.


Please don't. Iirc super glue has an off gassing which can damage driver membranes.

E6000 glue (also sold as E8000).


----------



## Ronion

Wow.  I’ve superglued over 20 buds now.  Had no idea it could damage the driver!  Fortunately it hasn’t yet.  of course I’ve only used a small dab on the outside of the shell barring my last one.  Any idea how long the off gassing lasts?  I know you can smell it for a few minutes, but I don’t have an unusually enhanced sense of smell.


----------



## LongNguyenHorn (Dec 9, 2021)

So I tried the Moondrop Vx Classic ( Mid - high earbud ) today and found that bright earbud tend to have quite wrong colour of the instrument like horn sound like trumpet and dry which can come from driver vibrate too fast or too hard to vibrate then lead to missing some fast vibrato ( very delicate ) when musician play the note and each time like that multiple thoundsand notes in one symphony make the listen experience quite 'unmoving'.

Bass - mid earbud in another hand can do much more vibrato ( i mean the very fast one not normal one ) might be because of longer decay but suffer in speed then lead to sound congest when music have too many things going on ( imagine have to put many instrument in one tiny ear bud and make them play even longer than the bright earbud )

For me bright earbud not really the one for classical ( lack of passion, musical, phrasing from tiniest movement of vibrato ) also warm bassy one not really for EDM etc because lack of speed ( they mixed a lot of bass in it already anyway ) and this kind of music have quite many treble need to extend.

So you just need to follow your genre your heart accept reality and sorry to say there is no end game because you see when you got this side of the coin you lose another.

This is few Totl mid high Swd2+, Chaconne / bass mid Shozy BK, Zen 2.0


----------



## Ronion

Ronion said:


> Wow.  I’ve superglued over 20 buds now.  Had no idea it could damage the driver!  Fortunately it hasn’t yet.  of course I’ve only used a small dab on the outside of the shell barring my last one.  Any idea how long the off gassing lasts?  I know you can smell it for a few minutes, but I don’t have an unusually enhanced sense of smell.


I just found out:24 hours Total, but most of it occurs in the first 5 minutes.


----------



## waynes world

assassin10000 said:


> Please don't. Iirc super glue has an off gassing which can damage driver membranes.
> 
> E6000 glue (also sold as E8000).



The super glue gasses don't play well with polarized camera lenses either


----------



## RikudouGoku

syazwaned said:


> IF that so, I will wait for the review Goku. I am no exactly money right now to buy Samsara k300


Ok, K300 is NOT a budget Samsara K300.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Qian39 on the other hand...damn. Might be another default rec.


----------



## avgonzalez77

Very random question - but does anyone have any experience with waterproof earbuds for swimming?


----------



## Billyak

Does anyone else think that the kLBBs are the earbud version of the HD600/650? None boosted bass, to die for mids, smooth treble, excellent tembre.


----------



## ilmothedude

Lovely Rose Maria arrived today! Really transparent and open sound!


----------



## emusic13

Newbsound PK


----------



## jogawag

RikudouGoku said:


> Qian39 on the other hand...damn. Might be another default rec.


You should try Qian69 too.


----------



## MelodyMood

Is there any link of buying JCALLY EP09 only Body (No Cable). Can someone please suggest any such link? I contacted few sellers but they are selling earbud with able. I already have 2 cables with me and do not want to waste money. I think that is the benefit and reason to buy MMCX Earbud which is not meeting here. Please suggest. Thanks.


----------



## Into The Light5

So i bought the new faaeal rosemary spc edition, it is not come with the usual tin can the old rosemary had, instead a paper box (it is fine for me). The plug and cables is just dissappointing, the 4.4mm L plug bent like that, i found most of these L shape 4.4mm bent tend to comes from china manufacturer, ironically i got the same problem with my ZEPHONE cable. yes even a professional cable manufacturer lack of these quality. But the pentaconn plug i have before didnt have this problem. Lets get back to the rosemary, the cable, the picture i gave have a loose braid as shown in the pic, didnt impact the sound at all but aesthetically uncomfortable. and i afraid these bented plug can potentially damage my dap jack


----------



## jao29

Are the Ksearphone Lbbs more durable than the Bell ti plus earbuds? I might just grab a pair in case my Onmyoji suddenly exhibit problems. I really like the bell typed shells and the sound quality that they offer, but the QC issues are really starting to bother me. I might buy the Lbbs as a back up if they’re more durable.


----------



## Richiyaado

Just received my pair of Newbsound 32pro earbuds and, hokey smokes... they sound fantastic!


----------



## LongNguyenHorn (Dec 11, 2021)

My impression:

Yuin Pk1: Quite correct tonality, balance sounding but distoration like Yincrow X6.

SWD2+: Fast, detail, but dry, lifeless. Very nice depth like HD700. Sound like too focus to show the technical more than music.

Shozy BK: A bit dark, a bit wooly, can be a bit difficult to recognize oboe/flute/bassoon because not quite good technical (nature of warm earbud) but super musical showing every delicate vibrato even better than HD650 but only with few instruments. But it can not really free the music, the mid sound feel holding back - good for sad music. Can not render the whole orchestra like full size headphone ofcourse. No earbud can so for me HD6xx can be the best value.

Vx classic: Might be warmer than SWD2+ but still cold, sterile side for me. Same with bright earbud fast, detail but dry, lifeless.


----------



## DWW256

So I keep hearing great things about some pairs of earbuds that I just _cannot_ figure out where to buy.  I'm not really experienced with AliExpress, which probably (okay, definitely) has something to do with it, but could someone be very helpful and post a link or instructions as to where I could find any of the following?

Ksearphone K300 Samsara (not the regular K300, presumably)
Ksearphone LBBs
Newbsound anything, like I seriously can't find anything on these at all on Google
The earbud market continues to fascinate me, because it is just so weird—but I have no idea where to find stuff.


----------



## RikudouGoku

DWW256 said:


> So I keep hearing great things about some pairs of earbuds that I just _cannot_ figure out where to buy.  I'm not really experienced with AliExpress, which probably (okay, definitely) has something to do with it, but could someone be very helpful and post a link or instructions as to where I could find any of the following?
> 
> Ksearphone K300 Samsara (not the regular K300, presumably)
> Ksearphone LBBs
> ...


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html





https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002512975421.html






=


----------



## DWW256

I thought the LBBS was different from the LBS.


----------



## RikudouGoku

DWW256 said:


> I thought the LBBS was different from the LBS.


It is, they just have them both in the same product link. You just need to pick that "BellLBs no mic" option to get the LBBS.


----------



## DWW256

Okay.  I'll take your word for it—but how did you find that out?  Same question for other entry, I would've thought options B and F were for the same model.  Or are they?


----------



## RikudouGoku

DWW256 said:


> Okay.  I'll take your word for it—but how did you find that out?  Same question for other entry, I would've thought options B and F were for the same model.  Or are they?


I bought it myself. 

B is probably the same bud but the cable is twisted instead.

This is how twisted cables look like:


----------



## waynes world

Richiyaado said:


> Just received my pair of Newbsound 32pro earbuds and, hokey smokes... they sound fantastic!



Every time I read a post like this, I check my tracking!


----------



## DWW256

Amazing.  Thank you.

Still curious about Newbsound though, hopefully someone knows something about that!


----------



## RikudouGoku

DWW256 said:


> Amazing.  Thank you.
> 
> Still curious about Newbsound though, hopefully someone knows something about that!


You need to contact @irv003 to buy it. He is the Diyer.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Dec 11, 2021)

Has anyone ordered (heard) the new limited edition Yinman 2.0 series in either 150Ω or 600Ω? Curious to hear some feedback on them.

2021 - Yinman 音曼 2.0 150 LE (150Ω @ 110 dB/mW; aka NEW 150 Limited Edition)
2021 - Yinman 音曼 2.0 600 LE (600Ω @ 95 dB/mW; aka NEW 600 Limited Edition)


----------



## RikudouGoku

Qian39 Impressions:

Bass: Excellent bass, its elevated and very clean with great texture. Not as much as sub-bass as something like the X6, but close in mid-bass quantity.

Mids: Great vocals, very clean despite the tonality being a bit on the warmer side.

Treble: Well tuned treble, airy, clean and not fatiguing.

Overall: Drop whatever you are doing and get this. The Yincrow X6 might have been surpassed at half the price with a godly fit/comfort.



K´s K300 Impresssions:

Bass: sub-bass has poor extension and rumble. Mid-bass is a bit bloated but not that much quantity.

Mids: Unclean due to bass bleed, too much warmth.

Treble: Dark treble, unclean, lacks clarity and detail.

Overall: Not a budget Samsara K300, for iem people its somewhat similar to something like the Final Audio E5000.


----------



## chinmie

i almost forgot i had the qian 39 years ago if i didn't wrote my past gears list in my profile 
i remembered that it was good, but not special for my taste. still a solid recommendation though


----------



## Into The Light5

WoodyLuvr said:


> Has anyone ordered (heard) the new limited edition Yinman 2.0 series in either 150Ω or 600Ω? Curious to hear some feedback on them.
> 
> 2021 - 音曼 Yinman 2.0 150 (150Ω @ 110 dB/mW; aka NEW 150 Limited Edition)
> 2021 - 音曼 Yinman 2.0 600 (600Ω @ 95 dB/mW; aka NEW 600 Limited Edition)


are they available in aliexpress?


----------



## povidlo

Into The Light5 said:


> are they available in aliexpress?


I believe new Yinman 150 is the plastic option listed here as wooden option has been available in the past.

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mskZoyO


----------



## calcatreppola

ilmothedude said:


> Lovely Rose Maria arrived today! Really transparent and open sound!


wonderful... can you tell us soomething more? maybe with some comparisons?
If I remember correctly these earbuds require quite a lot of burn-in...  I am very attracted by rose technics products...


----------



## weezarrgh

Longtime lurker here just adding to the Newbsound gospel - these definitely punch above their weight class! But most importantly @irv003 was a pleasure to correspond with and got the earbuds sent out really quickly! If you have the means, definitely consider adding them to the rotation!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Into The Light5 said:


> are they available in aliexpress?





povidlo said:


> I believe new Yinman 150 is the plastic option listed here as wooden option has been available in the past.
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mskZoyO


Interesting didn't realize they were also offered in a plastic shell as well; thank you for that head's up.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Dec 11, 2021)

calcatreppola said:


> wonderful... can you tell us soomething more? maybe with some comparisons?
> If I remember correctly these earbuds require quite a lot of burn-in...  I am very attracted by rose technics products...


Here are some recent convos about Rose and Maria in general with some minor but helpful comparisons:


WoodyLuvr said:


> If you speak of *2020 - Rose Technics Maria II (14Ω; 16mm & 14.8mm)* there have been some discussions but not many... they be "bright" which turns a lot of people off immediately when it comes to earbuds.
> 
> Here is a nice brief from *@ClieOS *regarding the Maria II
> 
> ...





WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur, Maria I & II are bright sounding but damn do they have a wondrously wide soundstage. *@ClieOS *describes the Maria II quite well: "_As for sound - think of it with a sound signature between SimPhonio D2+ and D3 - bright and very well extended treble, somewhat warm on the mid range, good deep punching but moderate low-end with a super massive soundstage. Listening to it pretty much equal to listening a miniature open back on-ear rather than an earbud. because of how 'out-of-the-ear' it sounds, even wider than the original Maria and definitely the widest sounding earbud in the market._"





WoodyLuvr said:


> Another possible option would be the *2020 - Rose Technics Maria II (14Ω)* in the smaller 14.8mm size. This is a bright signature earbud in comparison to all. Has a nice sparkle to it but unfortunately it is very fatiguing for me to use for nay length of time (I am hyper sensitive to sibilant and bright signature). The Maria II is well regarded... so much so, that I had to put it on my *god-tier list*.





WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, right smack between the Chaconne, Maria II, and EM5 though I think the Maria II or even the EM5 were better sounding to me but I think 'fit' was an issue with the Lyra Nature LE. I really want to try the Lyra Mini to see if that helps any as it is supposed to sound very similar (less forward and open though so it may be a wash).





WoodyLuvr said:


> Though bright and fatiguing to me (I am sensitive to sibilant treble) the Maria II is an extraordinary earbud in so many regards... the widest head/soundstage I have ever experienced with an earbud.


----------



## baskingshark

Seems the Yincrow RW3000 has been reviewed by boss ClieOS here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/yincrow-rw-3000.25600/reviews#review-27476


----------



## RikudouGoku

Speaking about new buds, there is a discount on the Smabat M3 Pro now.





https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003656702599.html


----------



## rprodrigues (Dec 11, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Seems the Yincrow RW3000 has been reviewed by boss ClieOS here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/yincrow-rw-3000.25600/reviews#review-27476



It's too expensive no matter how good  it may sound.
Can't be worth it...

I won't feed this.


----------



## pickyAudiophile

WoodyLuvr said:


> Also on my consideration list but "the wait" may kill me 💀☠️⚰️!  And I am not getting any younger!


Is it still on your watch list?
Still no official annoucement or specs yet. I do trust in Ivan's designs and would order blindly. As there are so many mediocre ES9038 implementations out there by brands like Hiby, Hidizs or whatever OEM, you name them. Few of them I purchased and sold with a loss just days or weeks later.


----------



## InvisibleInk

pickyAudiophile said:


> Few of them I purchased and sold with a loss just days or weeks later.


Username checks out


----------



## calcatreppola

WoodyLuvr said:


> Here are some recent convos about Rose and Maria in general with some minor but helpful comparisons:


thank you WoodyLuvr
I already read those description. I only lack knowledge aboout Symphonio... 
Maybe you can help me: compared to ebx21, is Maria II brighter, or as bright as the NiceHCK's model? It will cost to me twice as much as ebx21... it must deserve it...


----------



## syazwaned

RikudouGoku said:


> Speaking about new buds, there is a discount on the Smabat M3 Pro now.
> 
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003656702599.html


OMG 20 usd off 😍. 

I wonder how good it is. It uses the 150 ohms driver, but not sure whether it is the 150 ohms m driver


----------



## baskingshark

rprodrigues said:


> It's too expensive no matter how good  it may sound.
> Can't be worth it...
> 
> I won't feed this.



Ya I think there are huge diminishing returns here. But anyways, I'd wait for sales or a few weeks later bro. In general, prices of CHIFI are highest at launch, and diminish as the weeks go by.

Sometimes the second hand market is the way to go, I bought my Yincrow RW2000, SMABATs and some budget/midfi earbuds 2nd hand, there are good deals to be had if you ain't picky with 2nd hand gear.


----------



## jogawag

jao29 said:


> Are the Ksearphone Lbbs more durable than the Bell ti plus earbuds? I might just grab a pair in case my Onmyoji suddenly exhibit problems. I really like the bell typed shells and the sound quality that they offer, but the QC issues are really starting to bother me. I might buy the Lbbs as a back up if they’re more durable.


Lbbs, even if made by Ksearphone, don't seem to have any QC issues reported in this thread.
I use the Lbbs for outings and the Onmyoji for indoors.


----------



## jao29

jogawag said:


> Lbbs, even if made by Ksearphone, don't seem to have any QC issues reported in this thread.
> I use the Lbbs for outings and the Onmyoji for indoors.


Thank you! It’s a shame that the Bell ti plus has such shoddy build quality. 🙁


----------



## sunsun89

RikudouGoku said:


> Speaking about new buds, there is a discount on the Smabat M3 Pro now.
> 
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003656702599.html


can this one beat LBBS?


----------



## RikudouGoku

sunsun89 said:


> can this one beat LBBS?


no clue


----------



## ilmothedude (Dec 12, 2021)

calcatreppola said:


> wonderful... can you tell us soomething more? maybe with some comparisons?
> If I remember correctly these earbuds require quite a lot of burn-in...  I am very attracted by rose technics products...


I bought Rose Maria as upgrade to Rose Masya (mk2), as Masya had become one of my top favorite earphone. Masya has bright but very smooth signature, with spacious soundstage width and depth, and quite decent bass extension for earbud. Maria is clear upgrade to my ears as could be expected, except not quite as smooth sounding as Masya (although it could get smoother with burn-in). Maria has wider and deeper soundstage, imaging and layering are much better. Masya has slight veil in midrange which Maria doesn't have at all. Treble extension is rather similiar in both Masya and Maria, but Maria has some kind of emphasis in upper midrange which makes Maria brighter sounding. I quite like it, and don't find it too bright at all. Bass is simply amazing for earbud, and actually reminds more of open back headphone than earbud. Bass goes very low and it's really punchy and clean (but good seal needed). If Masya's sound was like half way between earbuds and headphones, Maria is very close to headphone experience in earbud form. Very good!

Fit is a bit more fiddly business on Maria. Maria shell is obiviosly heavier than Masya, and nozzle part is slightly narrower on Maria. Single foam isn't enough to get decent seal. Double foam, or rubber ring + foam works best for me. Decent seal is essential to get best bass performance. Shirt clip also helps to keep them in place, although there isn't one included in the box, but who head-fier wouldn't have several of them lying around! I see Maria II has addressed this fit problem by offering version with a larger nozzle. Also worth to mention that Maria uses same 0.75mm 2 pin connectors as Masya since cables are interchangeable between them. I've seen some specs mention 0.78mm connectors which isn't true for Maria.


----------



## Star Ace

Chaconne fit update-rings worked great along with foams at first. HieGI are thicker, with a "sandier" texture-not as soft or comfy as the supposedly bad stock tips. They do change the sound, for better or worse. Them being thicker sometimes pushed them farther from the ear, but not too much. They appear good, but perhaps not the best for the Chaconne? (I know every other Chaconne owner prefers them by default, but I wonder if they are merely following the advice of people they respect a lot in audio?)

I am back to using an all-stock setup as the rings started slipping off towards the stem side, or off if I tried to place them a bit forward for "better grab". Maybe the colder, drier weather is affecting the silicon, or they are getting too worn in. Slipping rings make the fit worse, as when they slip, the rubber will push out the earbuds.

Has anyone experienced this silicon ring slippage, and is there a way to ameliorate the issue or fix it altogether?

Sorry for sounding all "complainy". Have been having a great listening experience with these lovely earbuds. Only the accessories have been annoying as of late, more the rings than the HIeGI foams (which I may not prefer, but think have their virtues.)

The Chaconne are wonderful earbuds in my experience. Sound is so open, natural, and truly high fidelity. No ugly sounds ever. Any non-bassheads should be very happy with them. "Reference", but also natural and not "boring" sounding. The price is high for earbuds, but at least they really have a special sound that is not just "good for an earbud." Many headphones wish they sounded like these.


----------



## assassin10000

Star Ace said:


> Chaconne fit update-rings worked great along with foams at first. HieGI are thicker, with a "sandier" texture-not as soft or comfy as the supposedly bad stock tips. They do change the sound, for better or worse. Them being thicker sometimes pushed them farther from the ear, but not too much. They appear good, but perhaps not the best for the Chaconne? (I know every other Chaconne owner prefers them by default, but I wonder if they are merely following the advice of people they respect a lot in audio?)
> 
> I am back to using an all-stock setup as the rings started slipping off towards the stem side, or off if I tried to place them a bit forward for "better grab". Maybe the colder, drier weather is affecting the silicon, or they are getting too worn in. Slipping rings make the fit worse, as when they slip, the rubber will push out the earbuds.
> 
> ...


Try cleaning the rings with some warm/hot water and dawn dish soap. Then wipe down the earbuds.

There may be some earwax thats migrated to them, making it slick and hard for them to stay in place.


----------



## assassin10000

Also the TI7 showed up yesterday, just opened them and put them on burn in.


----------



## n00b

nice, i always liked the shape of those. hope they sound good!


----------



## syazwaned

Guys, do you think a totl earbuds can match the sound quality of a headphone at the same price?


----------



## RikudouGoku

syazwaned said:


> Guys, do you think a totl earbuds can match the sound quality of a headphone at the same price?


Yes. Chaconne has better mids, treble and timbre than the Sundara for example.


----------



## MelodyMood

MelodyMood said:


> Is there any link of buying JCALLY EP09 only Body (No Cable). Can someone please suggest any such link? I contacted few sellers but they are selling earbud with able. I already have 2 cables with me and do not want to waste money. I think that is the benefit and reason to buy MMCX Earbud which is not meeting here. Please suggest. Thanks.


Any suggestion on this query?


----------



## chavez

MelodyMood said:


> Any suggestion on this query?


They came in the package with a cable. Maybe try to get them second hand.


----------



## Ronion

syazwaned said:


> Guys, do you think a totl earbuds can match the sound quality of a headphone at the same price?


Without a doubt.  I’d say dollar for dollar, earbuds are the way to go.


----------



## jao29 (Dec 12, 2021)

chinmie said:


> i almost forgot i had the qian 39 years ago if i didn't wrote my past gears list in my profile
> i remembered that it was good, but not special for my taste. still a solid recommendation though


I auditioned the qian39 and 69 a few years back and I agree. The only thing memorable on the 39 was the fit, everything else, the 69 was just flat out better.


----------



## Kamen555 (Dec 12, 2021)

Ronion said:


> Without a doubt.  I’d say dollar for dollar, earbuds are the way to go.


I agree.

Especially for people who live in countries where branded headphones n iems are INSANELY priced bcos of tax/duty/etc. Or if ur salary is INSANELY low (like mine). 😅


----------



## MelodyMood

chavez said:


> They came in the package with a cable. Maybe try to get them second hand.


Ok. Not looking for 2nd hand ones so will go for Package if no option to buy only Earbuds.


----------



## syazwaned (Dec 12, 2021)

Thanks. Been thinking either start collecting headphone or start collecting totl earbuds. Headphone while looks nice on the shelves, takes too much space and not travel friendly. Earbuds on the others hands are good travel buddy and easy to store. That I wonder it is worth it to get headphone when good similarly price good earbuds is available.


----------



## chinmie

syazwaned said:


> Guys, do you think a totl earbuds can match the sound quality of a headphone at the same price?



sound quality-wise, for me personally the answer is yes. almost everytime i compare both in the same price bracket (and more often with the earbuds being cheaper) i would go for the earbuds. 

one thing the headphones do better is slightly bigger perceived soundstage because purely physics and anatomy: the headphones sound also enclose the ear lobes, while the earbuds are much more similar to on-ear headphones and project the sound more on the inner ear part. 

so if people like a "grander staging" presentation, headphones might have a slight edge. on other front like SQ, separation, etc, i'd go with earbuds any day of the week.


----------



## waynes world

syazwaned said:


> Thanks. Been thinking either start collecting headphone or start collecting totl earbuds. Headphone while looks nice on the shelves, takes too much space and not travel friendly. Earbuds on the others hands are good travel buddy and easy to store. That I wonder it is worth it to get headphone when good similarly price good earbuds is available.



It's worth mentioning that it is much easier to hide new earbud purchases from the significant other than it is to hide new headphones from them!


----------



## syazwaned

chinmie said:


> sound quality-wise, for me personally the answer is yes. almost everytime i compare both in the same price bracket (and more often with the earbuds being cheaper) i would go for the earbuds.
> 
> one thing the headphones do better is slightly bigger perceived soundstage because purely physics and anatomy: the headphones sound also enclose the ear lobes, while the earbuds are much more similar to on-ear headphones and project the sound more on the inner ear part.
> 
> so if people like a "grander staging" presentation, headphones might have a slight edge. on other front like SQ, separation, etc, i'd go with earbuds any day of the week.




Thank you for the explanation!


waynes world said:


> It's worth mentioning that it is much easier to hide new earbud purchases from the significant other than it is to hide new headphones from them!


 hahaha, this is true! Though my wife love earbuds as I am.


----------



## assassin10000

n00b said:


> nice, i always liked the shape of those. hope they sound good!



I hope so as well. I loved the ACG's but they were a hair too bright (for me) for extended listening.


----------



## syazwaned

WoodyLuvr said:


> This is what I have... anything missing?
> 
> *Svara - Smabat (Shenzhen Smabat Technology Co., Ltd.) Model Timeline*
> 
> *2017 - Svara-L & M (115Ω)*​​*2018 - Svara-L 2018 (32Ω)*​*2018 - Svara Pro (64Ω; First Maze Acoustics Design)*​​*2019 - Smabat M1 Pro (32Ω; 2nd Gen 3D Maze Acoustics)*​*2019 - Smabat ST10 (Green 45Ω; 2nd Gen 3D Maze Acoustics)*​​*2020 - Smabat M2 Pro (40Ω; 1st Gen Modular Earbud)*​*2020 - Smabat ST10S (Black-Silver 40Ω; Black-Gold 150Ω; 3rd Gen Maze Acoustics)*​​*2021 - Smabat M0 (20Ω; First DIY Modular Earbud)*​*2021 - Smabat M2s Pro (40Ω; 2nd Gen Modular Earbud)*​*2021 - Smabat M3 Pro (150Ω; Maze Acoustics)*​*2021 - Smabat Proto 1.0 (16Ω; 3rd Gen DIY Modular Earbud)*​*2021 - Smabat Super One (100Ω; S-Class Earbud; Integrated Linear Channel Acoustics)*​​*COMING SOON...*​*~2021 - Smabat ST20 (50Ω; Conch Acoustics)*​*~2021 - Smabat ST20 Pro (130Ω; Conch Acoustics)*​




Has anyone tried the M3 pro yet?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Dec 13, 2021)

calcatreppola said:


> thank you WoodyLuvr
> I already read those description. I only lack knowledge aboout Symphonio...
> Maybe you can help me: compared to ebx21, is Maria II brighter, or as bright as the NiceHCK's model? It will cost to me twice as much as ebx21... it must deserve it...


Although very similar sounding in some regards (especially secondary and tertiary signatures) they are actually quite distinct from one another in their tuning approaches.

*NiceHCK EBX21* are indeed an interesting one... although very "_bright_" leaning in many aspects their primary signature (red shaded oval) actually sits near to (on) the "_flat_" neutral horizontal line (axis). From there they tend to reach out with a "_detailed_" and "_critical_" prominent secondary characteristic (blue shaded balloon) and come across as being very analytical & clinical (cold-sounding). With a weak tertiary characteristic (green shaded arrow) they do have a minor tendency to sharply shoot out towards "_hard-harsh_" upper mids; sometimes sounding very forward and aggressive. Some people believe the EBX21 have a "balanced" tuning but their rather strong lean towards upper mids and treble, less emphasized bass, and strong analytical nature have me argue that they are not... nonetheless, I have indicated this possible additional tertiary sound signature (purple shaded arrow). The EBX21 are truly excellent reference earbuds for critical listening... that is if you can handle their bright cold analytical nature. I really liked these earbuds but sadly it was way too fatiguing for me giving me atrocious head and ear aches.

*Rose Technics Maria I & II *are truly amazing earbuds with one of the widest (if not the widest) and most open sound(head)stages currently available (only competitor in this regards is probably the *Toneking (MusicMaker MrZ Tiankui) Dendroaspis Viridis*). The Maria I, and especially the II, primary signature (red shaded oval) is far more "_mid-forward_", "_mid-centric_", and less "_bright_" leaning in nature than the EBX21 which is more flat and neutral in it's presentation. The Maria I & II show a weak secondary signature (blue shaded balloon) that reaches out to "_hard-harsh_" upper mids that can come across forward and aggressive. A sometimes prominent and opposing tertiary signature (green shaded arrow) exhibited by Maria I & II is a tendency to reach out towards the "_hard-harsh_" lower treble area with certain recordings and genres. Again, very fatiguing for treble sensitive folks such as myself but if you can handle that these are definitely end-game god-tier earbuds worthy of serious consideration. Special Note: although available in two different sizes, due to their unique shell design 'the fit' can be a big issue for some people.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

chinmie said:


> sound quality-wise, for me personally the answer is yes. almost everytime i compare both in the same price bracket (and more often with the earbuds being cheaper) i would go for the earbuds.
> 
> one thing the headphones do better is slightly bigger perceived soundstage because purely physics and anatomy: the headphones sound also enclose the ear lobes, while the earbuds are much more similar to on-ear headphones and project the sound more on the inner ear part.
> 
> so if people like a "grander staging" presentation, headphones might have a slight edge. on other front like SQ, separation, etc, i'd go with earbuds any day of the week.





waynes world said:


> It's worth mentioning that it is much easier to hide new earbud purchases from the significant other than it is to hide new headphones from them!





syazwaned said:


> Thank you for the explanation!
> 
> hahaha, this is true! Though my wife love earbuds as I am.


A good time to offer this up again:


----------



## rkw

MelodyMood said:


> Is there any link of buying JCALLY EP09 only Body (No Cable). Can someone please suggest any such link? I contacted few sellers but they are selling earbud with able. I already have 2 cables with me and do not want to waste money. I think that is the benefit and reason to buy MMCX Earbud which is not meeting here. Please suggest. Thanks.


A retailer won't break up a package and try to sell the pieces separately. It's up to the manufacturer to offer it in a package without cable. If you can't find it on AliExpress then it is very unlikely.


----------



## Fabulo

WoodyLuvr said:


> This is what I have... anything missing?
> 
> *Svara - Smabat (Shenzhen Smabat Technology Co., Ltd.) Model Timeline*
> 
> *2017 - Svara-L & M (115Ω)*​​*2018 - Svara-L 2018 (32Ω)*​*2018 - Svara Pro (64Ω; First Maze Acoustics Design)*​​*2019 - Smabat M1 Pro (32Ω; 2nd Gen 3D Maze Acoustics)*​*2019 - Smabat ST10 (Green 45Ω; 2nd Gen 3D Maze Acoustics)*​​*2020 - Smabat M2 Pro (40Ω; 1st Gen Modular Earbud)*​*2020 - Smabat ST10S (Black-Silver 40Ω; Black-Gold 150Ω; 3rd Gen Maze Acoustics)*​​*2021 - Smabat M0 (20Ω; First DIY Modular Earbud)*​*2021 - Smabat M2s Pro (40Ω; 2nd Gen Modular Earbud)*​*2021 - Smabat M3 Pro (150Ω; Maze Acoustics)*​*2021 - Smabat Proto 1.0 (16Ω; 3rd Gen DIY Modular Earbud)*​*2021 - Smabat Super One (100Ω; S-Class Earbud; Integrated Linear Channel Acoustics)*​​*COMING SOON...*​*~2021 - Smabat ST20 (50Ω; Conch Acoustics)*​*~2021 - Smabat ST20 Pro (130Ω; Conch Acoustics)*​



I don't know if it is right to add them to the list but there are also the 2021 M2 Pro. They have the same shell and the same driver but the tuning module is the same as the M2s Pro.


----------



## calcatreppola

WoodyLuvr said:


> Although very similar sounding in some regards (especially secondary and tertiary signatures) they are actually quite distinct from one another in their tuning approaches.
> 
> *NiceHCK EBX21* are indeed an interesting one... although very "_bright_" leaning in many aspects their primary signature (red shaded oval) actually sits near to (on) the "_flat_" neutral horizontal line (axis). From there they tend to reach out with a "_detailed_" and "_critical_" prominent secondary characteristic (blue shaded balloon) and come across as being very analytical & clinical (cold-sounding). With a weak tertiary characteristic (green shaded arrow) they do have a minor tendency to sharply shoot out towards "_hard-harsh_" upper mids; sometimes sounding very forward and aggressive. Some people believe the EBX21 have a "balanced" tuning but their rather strong lean towards upper mids and treble, less emphasized bass, and strong analytical nature have me argue that they are not... nonetheless, I have indicated this possible additional tertiary sound signature (purple shaded arrow). The EBX21 are truly excellent reference earbuds for critical listening... that is if you can handle their bright cold analytical nature. I really liked these earbuds but sadly it was way too fatiguing for me giving me atrocious head and ear aches.
> 
> ...



a very big thank to you, WoodyRuvl!
To me you are always very clear in your descriptions, and I really appreciate the way you pinpoint sound characteristics while recognising personal attitudes of the hearer.

I must say that with the NiceHCK ebx21 I hear exactly what you describe. On my side, I like critical listening, and now that I have different opamps in my xd05 bal (opa627) some harshness disappeared, while details seem to come out even better... (strange enough to me, a similar experience is offered by a much cheaper dac, the hiby w3 s, who offers a warmer rendition). The combination is magic for me. Long live the earbuds! 

Dendroaspis Viridis bait me since the first time I read about them, and I love their colour too ... Only I read as being very close to ebx21, but not as much effective on details, therefore I decided not to give them a try yet... So I am waiting my first Blur, which are very promising. Too bad I am in Italy, and the parcel has been at some transit room since november 17, and is not yet at the carrier warehouse! (I've been told maybe it can take three months to be freed.)

For less critical listening I use VE earbuds, that I really like (thinking of trying Asura 3.0 as well). But I guess in many cases DAC also has its importance, or somehow affects our experience. 
I'll continue following your indications, WoodyLuvr.

I am so happy to having entered this deep rabbit hole... such a good community here underground, carrot-buds are sooooooo good. Thanks to you all for keeping this thread so wonderful.


----------



## sutosuto

Bought M2S Pro case from Smabat store at Aliexpress during 6/12 sales, but did not received the item although the delivery status indicates it has been delivered.
Checked with store and they offered to resend or refund.
As it implies they have shipped, I checked with the local post office and asked me to wait for 3 days.

Very good customer service of Smabat Store. They responded very fast and no hassle investigation/inquiry of the matter.

I am happy that I support their ST20 crowdfund.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Fabulo said:


> I don't know if it is right to add them to the list but there are also the 2021 M2 Pro. They have the same shell and the same driver but the tuning module is the same as the M2s Pro.


Added!


----------



## BotByte

syazwaned said:


> Thanks. Been thinking either start collecting headphone or start collecting totl earbuds. Headphone while looks nice on the shelves, takes too much space and not travel friendly. Earbuds on the others hands are good travel buddy and easy to store. That I wonder it is worth it to get headphone when good similarly price good earbuds is available.


Personally, I have the same issue. Mostly I'm looking to move overseas soon enough, and can't just haul a collection of headphones in my luggage. My whole earbud collection (8+) can be packed in my pockets. 

The comparison of earbuds to headphones, I'd say earbuds get you better value and performance under the $300 range--where earbuds hit the ceiling for TOTL tuning. 

But if travel friendly is your focus, there's IEMs as well. I think IEMs smash earbuds in detail retrieval in specific price brackets due to the design limitations of earbuds. But then earbuds smash IEMs in terms of comfort, soundstage, layering, and timbre. 

It all just depends on your personal preferences and tastes. Me, personally, I'm not a detail chaser. I like comfort and sound presentation, and earbuds just add on that special uniqueness with different drivers, tuning, and DIY options.


----------



## re23071998

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Rose Technics Maria I & II *are truly amazing earbuds with one of the widest (if not the widest) and most open sound(head)stages currently available (only competitor in this regards is probably the *Toneking (MusicMaker MrZ Tiankui) Dendroaspis Viridis*).


hmm the viridis seems interesting now.
what about the cheaper rose's like masya?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

syazwaned said:


> Has anyone tried the M3 pro yet?


----------



## povidlo

new kid on the block: HZsound Bell Rhyme

https://hifigo.com/collections/new-arrival/products/hzsound-bell-rhyme-earbuds


----------



## baskingshark

povidlo said:


> new kid on the block: HZsound Bell Rhyme
> 
> https://hifigo.com/collections/new-arrival/products/hzsound-bell-rhyme-earbuds



Wow thanks for the share! I really like the HZSound Heart Mirror, so this one looks very interesting. Design looks similar to the FAEAAL Datura Pro.


----------



## gylyf (Dec 13, 2021)

Hi, everyone. I’m just starting to dip a toe in the earbud world and I can already tell it’s going to be a rabbit hole for me. I recently received my first non-Apple earbud (Moondrop Nameless, which sound great) and I like what I hear enough to be thinking of jumping immediately into the TOTL realm. I’ve been reading this thread, reading the helpful lists some of you have assembled, and hunting around on Penon and AE, but it remains a little overwhelming. Right now, I’m eyeing one of these: Yincrow RW-3000, Moondrop Chaconne, Ourart QJ21, or Smabat Pro One. I probably would have ordered the Chaconne already, but the lack of a replaceable cable is turning me off compared to the other buds I’m considering. I prefer a more neutral signature, leaning toward slightly warm if neutral isn’t possible. I hope I’m not posting in the wrong place, but I’d be grateful for any guidance you can offer. Thank you!

Edited to add the following info, based on WoodyLuvr’s helpful response:

I’ll mostly be using these on the go, with my iPhone and PAW S2 as a source. I listen mostly to indie rock and 60s/70s stuff, with some jazz thrown in. As I mentioned, I prefer a more neutral/flat signature. I’m looking to spend around $300-$350. In terms of shape, I’m still figuring out my preferences, though I find the Nameless very comfortable (in part why I was drawn to the Chaconne). I also think I’d prefer not having to wrap the cable around my ear, which may eliminate some of the buds I’ve listed.


----------



## syazwaned

WoodyLuvr said:


>


 

Ah thanks. so it sound neutral similar to the tonality of  ST10s. I already have Smabat m2s pro with super one driver. I wanted a more neutral sounding earbuds with affordable price, looks like Smabat M3 Pro would be it!


----------



## povidlo

baskingshark said:


> Wow thanks for the share! I really like the HZSound Heart Mirror, so this one looks very interesting. Design looks similar to the FAEAAL Datura Pro.


Looking forward to your impressions if you end up getting them!

Plastic driver cover reminds of PT2021.

This is second earbuds release from HZsound. They also came out with Cymbals a while back.

http://www.hzsound.cn/en/product-16.html


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Dec 15, 2021)

gylyf said:


> Hi, everyone. I’m just starting to dip a toe in the earbud world and I can already tell it’s going to be a rabbit hole for me. I recently received my first non-Apple earbud (Moondrop Nameless, which sound great) and I like what I hear enough to be thinking of jumping immediately into the TOTL realm. I’ve been reading this thread, reading the helpful lists some of you have assembled, and hunting around on Penon and AE, but it remains a little overwhelming. Right now, I’m eyeing one of these: Yincrow RW-3000, Moondrop Chaconne, Ourart QJ21, DQSM PD21, or Smabat Pro One. I probably would have ordered the Chaconne already, but the lack of a replaceable cable is turning me off compared to the other buds I’m considering. I prefer a more neutral signature, leaning toward slightly warm if neutral isn’t possible. I hope I’m not posting in the wrong place, but I’d be grateful for any guidance you can offer. Thank you!


Welcome to the rabbit hole!

The Yincrow RW-3000 is so new that it may take some time to get recommendations (reviews) on this one... thus far it is looking (sounding) very promising from the few who have heard it who believe it is an improvement on the RW-2000 though the high price tag is of concern to us all . The PD21 is made by a banned brand on Head-Fi so doubtful you will get much feedback on that one either (surprised the brand name was not redacted in your post... you might consider removing it as the Admins/Mods may remove your post... which does lead me to wonder if this brand is in fact still banned or not ).

Though your signature does help some... will this be for both mobile and desktop use?

If you desire more in-depth earbud recommendations the following data is usually extremely helpful for us:

*source* (using a DAC/AMP/DAP/PC/smartphone/streamer; audio file type including bit & sample rate)
*preferred connection* (termination type e.g. 3.5SE/4.4TRRS/2.5mm; single-end vs balanced; mic/no mic)
*listening level & time* (volume, and for how long?)
*listening environment* (mobile/office desk/home desktop/listening room)
*preferred sound signature* (bright; flat/neutral; balanced/natural/smooth; dark/warm; extra bass/bassy; L/U/V-shaped)
*preferred genre *(rock, heavy metal, pop, classical, OST, hip-hop, R&B, Korean-Pop, EDM, podcasts, audiobooks, etc.)
*preferred shell type* (depends on your ears and personal comfort; please see here)
*preferred brand *(applicable if asking for a specific model recommendation within a single brand family)
*price range* (probably the most important; what are you willing/looking to spend?)
_*any special need, consideration, and/or request*_


----------



## WoodyLuvr

povidlo said:


> new kid on the block: HZsound Bell Rhyme
> 
> https://hifigo.com/collections/new-arrival/products/hzsound-bell-rhyme-earbuds





baskingshark said:


> Wow thanks for the share! I really like the HZSound Heart Mirror, so this one looks very interesting. Design looks similar to the FAEAAL Datura Pro.





povidlo said:


> Looking forward to your impressions if you end up getting them!
> 
> Plastic driver cover reminds of PT2021.
> 
> ...


I wish they provided specs... at least driver impedance and sensitivity. Any help would be appreciated for our Earbuds Timeline:

2021 - HZsound Bell Rhyme (??Ω)
???? - HZsound 钹 Cymbals (??Ω)


----------



## povidlo

WoodyLuvr said:


> I wish they provided specs... at least driver impedance and sensitivity. Any help would be appreciated for our Earbuds Timeline:
> 
> 2021 - HZsound Bell Rhyme (??Ω)
> ???? - HZsound 钹 Cymbals (??Ω)


Cymbals is 2020 model, 32/115.

https://www.ebuy7.com/item/613195128817
https://m.bilibili.com/video/BV14f4y1U7qn


----------



## WoodyLuvr

re23071998 said:


> hmm the viridis seems interesting now.
> what about the cheaper rose's like masya?


Although the Mojito, Masya, and Masya 2 (aka Masya Pro) are/were all great buds in their time, just like the Svara-Smabat series they should be viewed as a chronological work-in-progress with the Maria I & II being definitely the better (newer, improved) versions of the Rose house sound.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

povidlo said:


> Cymbals is 2020 model, 32/115.
> 
> https://www.ebuy7.com/item/613195128817
> https://m.bilibili.com/video/BV14f4y1U7qn


You are awesome! Thank you.


----------



## gylyf

WoodyLuvr said:


> Welcome to the rabbit hole!
> 
> The Yincrow RW-3000 is so new that it may take some time to get recommendations (reviews) on this one... thus far it is looking (sounding) very promising from the few who have heard it you believe it is an improvement of the RW-2000 though the high price tag is of concern. The PD21 is a banned brand on Head-Fi so doubtful you will get much feedback on that one either (surprised the brand name was redacted in your post... you might consider removing it as the Admins/Mods may remove the post... which does lead me to wonder if this brand is in fact still banned or not).
> 
> ...


Thank you for your help! I edited my original post to remove the offending brand and to add some more info.


----------



## syazwaned

BotByte said:


> Personally, I have the same issue. Mostly I'm looking to move overseas soon enough, and can't just haul a collection of headphones in my luggage. My whole earbud collection (8+) can be packed in my pockets.
> 
> The comparison of earbuds to headphones, I'd say earbuds get you better value and performance under the $300 range--where earbuds hit the ceiling for TOTL tuning.
> 
> ...


Could not agree more ! I used to despite earbuds due to its loose fit, however after using Monk Plus and LBBs, I found them more comfortable and less intrusion to my ear drum in comparison to IEMs. I only have collected 4+ earbuds so far, but looks like my earbuds journey is still a long way haha


----------



## calcatreppola

WoodyLuvr said:


> (surprised the brand name was not redacted in your post... you might consider removing it as the Admins/Mods may remove your post... which does lead me to wonder if this brand is in fact still banned or not ).


now I understand a lot of things... first of all the strange names on your earbuds listings! 

is it possible to knnow why certain brands are banned? (although we can still read their names here and there in the forum?)


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Dec 14, 2021)

calcatreppola said:


> now I understand a lot of things... first of all the strange names on your earbuds listings!
> 
> is it possible to knnow why certain brands are banned? (although we can still read their names here and there in the forum?)


*Your Answer Lays Here In*


----------



## Tromick (Dec 19, 2021)

A week ago I started to use my TC300 with double cushions. I was using with one cushion which I sewed them for prevent them from dropping. Sound changed in a good way when I started to use them with double cushion. First of all, the sound signature is not flat anymore yet mids became fuller. You can find it a little bit muffled in first days but you will get used to it or you can reduce Bass since mid-bass kills other parts of EQ. I have done it on my iPod via Rockbox Bass menu, took it down to fully 12. Unfortunately treble gone away (maybe this method will work better with TC200). I took 1 on my iPod Rockbox Treble settings and it become something 'open'.  It was more center-focused now I can feel the sides. Mono to Stereo! If you are using at home, keep using them with one cushion since it is already silent place but if you are using them at outside, you should use them with double cushion which seals much better and it is a good deal to lose trebles. Better coverage, fuller mids, stereo sound!

EDIT : Oh, by the way, if you are going to sew it like me, don't sew them with streching out, sew them from the most outer line to keep them puffy as much as they can. After losing my pads couple of times with my MX series, I started to sew them like this and problem solved. LOL


----------



## Ronion

You are sewing your foams?  Picture please.  Woody may have to add this to the earbud bible.


----------



## Tromick (Dec 14, 2021)

Took the second foam out from *the left one *to make it visible clearly :






After sewing it around like this, give it a strong tie for two times then cut the excess rope. Be sure to sew it from the most outer line to keep the foams puffy! If you don't and sew it from the inner sides with streching, you will feel like you are not using foam, thin sound, no coverage, slipping problems. This is only for preventing them from falling in your pocket, bag or even while taking out from your ear. (Anybody, is this familiar?)

--------------

Also another tip, if you are having problems of slipping at one ear, you can shorten the wire of unslipping side with twist ties wire which very common in my country :





The side does not slipping won't slip anyway so you are taking the heavy-ness from the one slips. You are *not *damaging the cable, just twisting the thing to make it sit like that. You can use pliers to twist it more, then cut the excess part to make it look more 'not eye-catching".

The thing I am talking about (I don't know the name, we are using for food packages etc.) :





Double cushion doubles the goodness. (More proven unslipping haha)


----------



## Black-Wolf (Dec 15, 2021)

Hello everyone,
Just received today a pair of Newbsound 32Pro. I am listening today right now while working.
I'll make a full review later but my first impressions are extremely positive. I own some quite good earbuds (Astrotec Lyra Nature, Ksearphone Bell LBBS, Shozy BK) and a lot of good entry level (EMX500, Yincrow X6, etc.) and the 32Pro are among my favorites, maybe my favorites (time will tell).

Extremely musical buds, very smooth but with good bass and they still pack a good level of clarity and energy. Warm earbuds without being muddy. I find the same type of qualities than the Shozy BK (smooth, a bit warm, non fatiguing but punchy enough and detailed on complex music). I still have to compare them but i think the 32Pro are more refined.

For now, the complete very well with the LBBS (more analytical and insanely resolving for earbuds).


----------



## Sam L

Tromick said:


> Took the second foam out from *the left one *to make it visible clearly :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


wow, nice work! love the obvious commitment to the hobby.


----------



## Sam L

That's an exceedingly hard question to answer. If you're thinking of buying one over the other, I'd would get both the headphone you're considering and a sub $50 earbud. You can experience plenty of the uniqueness of earbuds in the under $50 range.

I lack the patience and the detailed observational power that someone like @RikudouGoku possesses to compare TOTL earbuds with equivalently priced headphones. They really are different animals

.


----------



## Sam L

ilmothedude said:


> I bought Rose Maria as upgrade to Rose Masya (mk2), as Masya had become one of my top favorite earphone. Masya has bright but very smooth signature, with spacious soundstage width and depth, and quite decent bass extension for earbud. Maria is clear upgrade to my ears as could be expected, except not quite as smooth sounding as Masya (although it could get smoother with burn-in). Maria has wider and deeper soundstage, imaging and layering are much better. Masya has slight veil in midrange which Maria doesn't have at all. Treble extension is rather similiar in both Masya and Maria, but Maria has some kind of emphasis in upper midrange which makes Maria brighter sounding. I quite like it, and don't find it too bright at all. Bass is simply amazing for earbud, and actually reminds more of open back headphone than earbud. Bass goes very low and it's really punchy and clean (but good seal needed). If Masya's sound was like half way between earbuds and headphones, Maria is very close to headphone experience in earbud form. Very good!
> 
> Fit is a bit more fiddly business on Maria. Maria shell is obiviosly heavier than Masya, and nozzle part is slightly narrower on Maria. Single foam isn't enough to get decent seal. Double foam, or rubber ring + foam works best for me. Decent seal is essential to get best bass performance. Shirt clip also helps to keep them in place, although there isn't one included in the box, but who head-fier wouldn't have several of them lying around! I see Maria II has addressed this fit problem by offering version with a larger nozzle. Also worth to mention that Maria uses same 0.75mm 2 pin connectors as Masya since cables are interchangeable between them. I've seen some specs mention 0.78mm connectors which isn't true for Maria.



Didn't know that about the pin spacing for the Maria. It's definitely .78mm for the Maria II.


----------



## Chessnaudio

@irv003 how is the synergy of the Newbsound 32 pro with the TRI TK2? Would you know how Moondrop Liebesleid/ Chaconne and K's LBBS sound on it? I saw your Instagram and am quite curious about it


----------



## irv003

Chessnaudio said:


> @irv003 how is the synergy of the Newbsound 32 pro with the TRI TK2? Would you know how Moondrop Liebesleid/ Chaconne and K's LBBS sound on it? I saw your Instagram and am quite curious about it


I don't have the Moondrop Liebesleid/ Chaconne. I only tested the LBBs & 32pro and both sounds good with it. TK2 is warm and smooth, synergize well with LBBs.


----------



## Chessnaudio

irv003 said:


> I don't have the Moondrop Liebesleid/ Chaconne. I only tested the LBBs & 32pro and both sounds good with it. TK2 is warm and smooth, synergize well with LBBs.


Thank you. It is such a nice looking piece, but a bit chunky.


----------



## jogawag

gylyf said:


> Hi, everyone. I’m just starting to dip a toe in the earbud world and I can already tell it’s going to be a rabbit hole for me. I recently received my first non-Apple earbud (Moondrop Nameless, which sound great) and I like what I hear enough to be thinking of jumping immediately into the TOTL realm. I’ve been reading this thread, reading the helpful lists some of you have assembled, and hunting around on Penon and AE, but it remains a little overwhelming. Right now, I’m eyeing one of these: Yincrow RW-3000, Moondrop Chaconne, Ourart QJ21, or Smabat Pro One. I probably would have ordered the Chaconne already, but the lack of a replaceable cable is turning me off compared to the other buds I’m considering. I prefer a more neutral signature, leaning toward slightly warm if neutral isn’t possible. I hope I’m not posting in the wrong place, but I’d be grateful for any guidance you can offer. Thank you!
> 
> Edited to add the following info, based on WoodyLuvr’s helpful response:
> 
> I’ll mostly be using these on the go, with my iPhone and PAW S2 as a source. I listen mostly to indie rock and 60s/70s stuff, with some jazz thrown in. As I mentioned, I prefer a more neutral/flat signature. I’m looking to spend around $300-$350. In terms of shape, I’m still figuring out my preferences, though I find the Nameless very comfortable (in part why I was drawn to the Chaconne). I also think I’d prefer not having to wrap the cable around my ear, which may eliminate some of the buds I’ve listed.


The sound of the MoonDrop Chaconne is excellent, if a little lacking in bass. However, the shell is very heavy and tends to shift when your head moves, so I wouldn't recommend using it outdoors or at work.

I have the Yincrow rw-2000, but the Yincrow rw-3000 is even more advanced according to @ClieOS' review, so I'd recommend buying it when it's a bit cheaper, like during a sale.

I don't know about the Ourart QJ21 or the Smabat Pro One.

If you want to buy one now, I would recommend the Ksearphone bell lbs (LBBS) for better sound quality and lower price (about $50).


----------



## daveu

Black-Wolf said:


> Hello everyone,
> Just received today a pair of Newbsound 32Pro. I am listening today right now while working.
> I'll make a full review later but my first impressions are extremely positive. I own some quite good earbuds (Astrotec Lyra Nature, Ksearphone Bell LBBS, Shozy BK) and a lot of good entry level (EMX500, Yincrow X6, etc.) and the 32Pro are among my favorites, maybe my favorites (time will tell).
> 
> ...


How they sound compare to the Yincrow X6?


----------



## Black-Wolf (Dec 15, 2021)

They have in common some smoothness and good bass (for earbuds) but i think The 32 Pro have a little less midbass, clearer mids and more precise highs. X6 and 32Pro are comparable in a way for their smooth and and a bit laid back sound, but 32Pro dont't have the muddy aspect X6 can have on complex music.


----------



## Charlyro222

32pro and Shanling M3X on dual dac mode and high gain.
What an outsanding and small combo.
Listening to Cinemix and so nice and sweet sounding at same time a detailed and powefull midbass.

Since now, my new portable solution.


----------



## Charlyro222 (Dec 15, 2021)

I think all DAPS, DACS and AMPS with organic signature (R2R, tubes ....) can get the best from 32pro.

But Shanling M3X is a very affordable DAP, so small, handy and with a great battery.


----------



## ian91 (Dec 15, 2021)

Having an evening with a new earbud I gifted to myself for Christmas before quickly wrapping it up. It's from a DIY'er in Thailand. Looking through his designs, they pretty much blew me away. Some are incredibly extravagant and beautiful and some are more modest. This one was the only one he had available at the time and while it's a bit (read: alot) more bling than I would normally go for I couldn't help myself.

Brand: Earbud Custom Art (https://www.facebook.com/EarbudCustomArt/)

Model: Sing (King Lion)
Driver: 15.4mm PK
Impedance: 30-65ohm
Body: Brass with silver plating
Connection: MMCX












Immediate impressions is one of incredible top end clarity and detail with a strong thumping midbass and weighty and warm vocals. The timbre is the standout achievement on this - woodwind and strings are better than on my Blurs. With this being my first metal shelled earbud, I'm wondering if this is playing a role in the acoustic characteristics on show...? Some thought has clearly gone into not just the outer design but the inner acoustics and tuning of the driver. It requires some power, opening up with either High Gain on Shanling M8 or High Gain on RU6. The RU6 takes it to another level and synergises well, expanding the stage and giving even more body and weight to the signature overall.

The brass shell is heavy and large and only just fits my small ears with single foams but it doesn't shift around while moving. I'm not particularly bothered by the weight.

However, I _am_ bothered by the wait until Christmas...roll on the 25th!


----------



## Charlyro222

ian91 said:


> Having an evening with a new earbud I gifted to myself for Christmas before quickly wrapping it up. It's from a DIY'er in Thailand. Looking through his designs, they pretty much blew me away. Some are incredibly extravagant and beautiful and some are more modest. This one was the only one he had available at the time and while it's a bit (read: alot) more bling than I would normally go for I couldn't help myself.
> 
> Brand: Earbud Custom Art (https://www.facebook.com/EarbudCustomArt/)
> 
> ...


What a beauty.
Very interesting that metal.


----------



## ilmothedude

Sam L said:


> Didn't know that about the pin spacing for the Maria. It's definitely .78mm for the Maria II.


Well it's about time Rose moves to more common connector type. 
I even measure the pin diameter of Maria cable with micrometer, and it showed exactly 0,75mm. But at least I now have four compatible cables to use with Maria or Masya.


----------



## emusic13

Charlyro222 said:


> 32pro and Shanling M3X on dual dac mode and high gain.
> What an outsanding and small combo.
> Listening to Cinemix and so nice and sweet sounding at same time a detailed and powefull midbass.
> 
> Since now, my new portable solution.


I use my 32pro with m3x sometimes too. Its a wonder how its not listed as a TOTL earbud when it definitely is.


----------



## Barndoor

ian91 said:


> However, I _am_ bothered by the wait until Christmas...roll on the 25th!


Lol, my LBBS arrived a couple of days ago, so far I've resisted the urge to open prior to 25th.
Guess I might have caved in had I not already opened the heart mirror that arrived previously!


----------



## Ronion

ian91 said:


> Having an evening with a new earbud I gifted to myself for Christmas before quickly wrapping it up. It's from a DIY'er in Thailand. Looking through his designs, they pretty much blew me away. Some are incredibly extravagant and beautiful and some are more modest. This one was the only one he had available at the time and while it's a bit (read: alot) more bling than I would normally go for I couldn't help myself.
> 
> Brand: Earbud Custom Art (https://www.facebook.com/EarbudCustomArt/)
> 
> ...


That guy builds extremely beautiful shells!  His prices are reasonable as well if I recall correctly.  When I spoke with him, I was nervous about his tuning/SQ because he didn’t really want to talk about it.    Now my fears are laid to rest.


----------



## sunsun89

Barndoor said:


> Lol, my LBBS arrived a couple of days ago, so far I've resisted the urge to open prior to 25th.
> Guess I might have caved in had I not already opened the heart mirror that arrived previously!


u should open it up, just to check its okay or not, then do some burn in.
so when Santa come, its already ready to hear


----------



## Barndoor

sunsun89 said:


> u should open it up, just to check its okay or not, then do some burn in.
> so when Santa come, its already ready to hear


I did think about it, but decided I couldn't be bothered trying to explain burn in to the wife!


----------



## earmonger

A wife who stays with you is a miracle. With the most direct explanation, she will understand, forgive and encourage you when you least expect it. You don't think she understands burn-in after being with you for any length of time?


----------



## Barndoor

You haven't met my wife! Understanding and encouraging are not words I would use to describe her when discussing HiFi!
After being together 24 years I agree with you on the miracle part that she still puts up with me!


----------



## calcatreppola

ian91 said:


> The timbre is the standout achievement on this - woodwind and strings are better than on my Blurs.


This is a strong admission by a Blur lover, after all the Blur you list under your name. We definitely hope Christmas arrives early this year so that we can read asap your review! 
congrats for the gift. I think it is beatiful, too. After all it is not you who see them when listening, no matter if they are a bit too much for your tastes


----------



## ian91 (Dec 16, 2021)

Barndoor said:


> Lol, my LBBS arrived a couple of days ago, so far I've resisted the urge to open prior to 25th.
> Guess I might have caved in had I not already opened the heart mirror that arrived previously!



The way I reasoned the short listening session before Christmas was just to make sure they're not faulty!  

Keep up the self-discipline though! 



Ronion said:


> That guy builds extremely beautiful shells!  His prices are reasonable as well if I recall correctly.  When I spoke with him, I was nervous about his tuning/SQ because he didn’t really want to talk about it.    Now my fears are laid to rest.



Indeed, prices are very reasonable. I was a bit worried that the sound wouldn't hold up but I'm glad it does. This is without a great deal of burn in and only brief impressions but I find my ears pick out the most in those first few hours. 



calcatreppola said:


> This is a strong admission by a Blur lover, after all the Blur you list under your name. We definitely hope Christmas arrives early this year so that we can read asap your review!
> congrats for the gift. I think it is beatiful, too. After all it is not you who see them when listening, no matter if they are a bit too much for your tastes



It is a strong admission and it might turn out to be a premature statement. I'll be burning them in, spending some weeks with them and then sharing more detailed impressions as able. They're not going to take pole position easy, lets put it that way. Timbre is one part of the whole package and admittedly there are plenty of earbuds that do this well anyway!


----------



## gylyf

jogawag said:


> The sound of the MoonDrop Chaconne is excellent, if a little lacking in bass. However, the shell is very heavy and tends to shift when your head moves, so I wouldn't recommend using it outdoors or at work.
> 
> I have the Yincrow rw-2000, but the Yincrow rw-3000 is even more advanced according to @ClieOS' review, so I'd recommend buying it when it's a bit cheaper, like during a sale.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your response. Rather than jumping straight into the deep-end of the TOTL pool, I ended up ordering some Newbsound 32pros. They’ll be a significant upgrade from my current buds and I can wait for some sales before deciding if I want to go any higher than the Newsbounds.


----------



## povidlo

Here's a little shout out on random earbuds that just came in. Listened with THX Onyx; for just about an hour with each so huge YMMV on sound impressions.

*NiceHCK EBX21* – Lucky Box price was right- example for argument that while earbuds are generally affordable, more expensive ones are probably overpriced. Cable is overhyped: heavy and prone to microphonics. Thankfully I went with cheaper 3.5mm option and will be replacing it. Case and cable clip are pretty nice though. Build quality is great. Strangely, I don’t see any vents on EBX21. EBX21 sound close to TOTL with great resolution, spacious soundstage, accurate timbre and imaging in mids/treble; ordinary, acceptable bud bass. I haven’t been able to pinpoint the “it”/ “wow” factor with them, like Maria’s treble or CM2Kti’s mids. Which is why I wouldn’t call them TOTL just yet.

*JCally EP09 *– junk stock cable was discarded right away, QC is bad with housing scratched OOTB. They’re light and built well though. What’s most impressive about these is hard-hitting mid-bass which is a scarce attribute in an earbud. There’s weight, impact and it moves quick. No prominent sub-bass and rumble, like with Smabat house sound. Mid-bass bleeds into lower mids though, congesting the sound and impacting timbre. Transients are good, maintaining a good beat and rhythm in combination with mid-bass. Vocals are well defined but sound a bit thick. Above average, smooth treble that doesn’t extend too high but is fairly tastefully done. Soundstage on EP09 feels squished after listening to EBX21 but there’s enough separation in place and it has a bit of 3D depth, front/back, as well.

*JVC HA-F12* – JVC has produced run-of-the-mill earbuds for ages. This is their latest mass-market earbud type model from what I gather. Built like a cheap baby toy. First earbuds I’ve purchased that don’t include foamies! They are shockingly hard-to-drive: going to 70-80% on THX Onyx, while EBX21 and EP09 were at 40-50%. Impedance/sensitivity are not listed on the box. Bass is horrible- it gets distorted with barely any audibility. Positively, mids sound flat. Treble has decent extension and there’s raw quantity that can be appreciated on treble-heavy tracks. Otherwise, the vocals are very good: they’re clean, and holographically well-separated from instrumentals. Character of a singer’s voice is communicated clearly. Vocal-focused tracks are a pleasure to listen to with HA-F12.

Treble:  EBX21 > EP09 > HA-F12
Mids:    EBX21 > HA-F12 > EP09
Bass:     EP09 > EBX21 > HA-F12
Vocal:   HA-F12 > EBX21 > EP09
Stage:   EBX21 > EP09 > HA-F12
Tech:     EBX21 > EP09 > HA-F12
Build:    EBX21 > EP09 > HA-F12


----------



## calcatreppola

povidlo said:


> Here's a little shout out on random earbuds that just came in. Listened with THX Onyx; for just about an hour with each so huge YMMV on sound impressions.
> 
> *NiceHCK EBX21* – Lucky Box price was right- example for argument that while earbuds are generally affordable, more expensive ones are probably overpriced. Cable is overhyped: heavy and prone to microphonics. Thankfully I went with cheaper 3.5mm option and will be replacing it.


great review, thank you...
Only I want to remind that there are still some good earbuds there for affordable prices. To get the same on iem's we have to spend much more, especially in order to "adjust" them. Not to speak about headphones. 
I am afraid that differences in price are a sort of necessity in today's market, otherways most people would never try so many buds, bud they would stuck on a few. After all we can all wait for black friday or Santa in order to get a discount that suits us.
The question though is tougher than this... Still I enjoy my ebx21


----------



## Barndoor

Last Christmas present to myself arrived today from VE (monk plus, lite,  Abigail and Avani). They threw in a couple of pairs of free buds. Look to have Motorola logo on them.



Sound out of the box was horrible, but seem to have improved a bit with half an hour burn in. I suspect the shell design could be negatively contributing and causing the overwhelming muddy bass. 
Might try to deconstruct them over the holidays.


----------



## Ronion (Dec 17, 2021)

I cut The cable of those Moto to use on another build.  Oddly, the microphone goes against your shirt if you follow their Left and right scheme.  Seems like such an odd choice… so when you talk to people, they hear shwish, whish, thud, pop as you walk.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Dec 17, 2021)

A substantial update to my earbuds *God-Tier List*


Added *Q'Labs* back to the list again... although he is no longer selling ready-made line models he is still offering custom-made earbuds by request which have been favored by some respected earbud lovers that I trust.

Added the latest Yinman 600 variant back to the list. The *Yinman 音曼 2.0 600 LE* (600Ω; _aka 'New 600 Limited Edition'_) is reportedly very true to the original 2016 issued model. Hoping to hear this one here sometime shortly.

After a few recent posts and a number of PM requests I have finally added the *Newbsound 32pro* to the *God-Tier List* as a number of respected fellow earbud fanatics think & speak rather highly of them. I was initially hesitant to put on the list as I have not heard them yet but as I am familiar with most of the drivers that *@irv003* is using I thought it was time to add to the list as accordingly.


emusic13 said:


> I use my 32pro with m3x sometimes too. Its a wonder how its not listed as a TOTL earbud when it definitely is.





Charlyro222 said:


> 32pro and Shanling M3X on dual dac mode and high gain.
> What an outsanding and small combo.
> Listening to Cinemix and so nice and sweet sounding at same time a detailed and powefull midbass.
> 
> Since now, my new portable solution.




So the only models on the list that I have not yet had the opportunity to hear (although I more than likely owned or auditioned an earlier version or similarly tuned model) are as follows:

*Ksearphone 钛铃 Bell-Ti PLUS (30Ω)*... _have heard or previously owned the rest of the models in the Bell-Ti line_
*Newbsound 32pro (32Ω)*... _have not heard these or any model from this brand yet but I am familiar with the driver(s) being used_
*PISLO PXVV (32/122Ω)*... _have heard the Pislo PX HIFI (31Ω)_
*Yincrow RW-3000 (16Ω)*... _previously owned the Yincrow RW-2000 (16Ω)_
*Yinman 音曼 2.0 600 LE (600Ω)*... _have heard the 2016 and 2018 versions of the Yinman 600_


----------



## ian91

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Yinman 音曼 2.0 600 LE (600Ω)*... _have heard the 2016 and 2018 versions of the Yinman 600_



Sorry if you've already touched on this...what was you experience of the '16 and ' 18 models?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Dec 17, 2021)

ian91 said:


> Sorry if you've already touched on this...what was you experience of the '16 and ' 18 models?


I unfortunately was late to the game in regards to both the Yinman 500Ω and 600Ω models. I kept procrastinating and/or forgetting to buy the 500/600Ω for no rhyme or reason and I didn't listen to any of them until late 2020 and then again early 2021. I really liked both the 500Ω and 600Ω models but of course at that point in time they were no longer readily available and/or rotten knock offs were too prolific for me to risk buying a pair. Now that they have been re-issued I am seriously considering buying a pair of the 600Ω impedance here in the coming days.

The original Yinman 600 from 2016 has a very relaxing and smooth sound that is quite similar to the VE Zen 2 in many ways but just a tad less smooth and darker than the Zen 2.0... perhaps even less muddy with certain genres and recordings. The original 600 offers a headphone-like signature similar to my SENN HD650 just not as dark or as open sounding though. The Yinman 600 are a tad narrow sounding and do not have the wide open soundstage for example like the Rose Maria I & II but it is not a huge shortcoming as they do offer excellent and exciting bass and they sound very good. However, I did note that they did not handle overly dynamic music pieces well such as Haydn's Symphony No. 94 "The Surprise Symphony". Their signature is perfect for jazz, easy listening, new age, and ambient electronic type music. The re-issued 2018 version of the 600 appears to use either a different driver (or perhaps it was simply due to different, heavy tuning) and offers a smoother, less detailed, and somewhat veiled sound compared to the original... so very similar to the VE Zen 2.0 or Zen LL. Still a nice relaxing warm earbud for those who detest bright leaning signatures but I preferred the darker 2016 original. The 2016 Yinman 音曼 500Ω was a bit more lively (less dark and smooth) and really geared for vocals in pop or fast jazz music.

To receive a better description of the signature and tuning maybe our resident Yinman 600 expert *@Alex.Grimm *will chime in with his thoughts and experience with these earbuds as I believe they are his most favorite.


----------



## waynes world

WoodyLuvr said:


> After a few recent posts and a number of PM requests I have finally added the *Newbsound 32pro* to the *God-Tier List* as a number of respected fellow earbud fanatics think & speak rather highly of them. I was initially hesitant to put on the list as I have not heard them yet but as I am familiar with most of the drivers that *@irv003* is using I thought it was time to add to the list as accordingly.



My "parcel tracking refresh button" has been somewhat abused since I ordered the 32pro's. Your post isn't helping lol


----------



## XmarX

Hey! Sup guys!

Can you guys recommend an earbud (Bluetooth or wired) in like 100 quid? It's for PC gaming and music listening during my commute. It would be great if it have a mic for making calls or team comms in games.

I'm in the UK btw.

Thank you!


----------



## Star Ace (Dec 17, 2021)

Ended up using the Chaconne with HIeGI foams and *no* rubber for a great fit. After learning their fit, I find them usable with both stock and HIeGI foams only, but the latter is a more snug fit, without much changing the sound signature.

I found that with the rubber circles, only the stock foams did not "negatively" impact the sound, and that is why I did not prefer the HIeGIs before. Now they do sound wonderful, without affecting the upper mids and highs much if at all.

The Moondrop Chaconne are a great, natural sounding earbud pair. Though I do not have the "best IEMs" that money can buy due to relative poverty, it has a more natural, pure sound that none of my better IEMs match. And my best headphones do not sound like it. Of course, my IEMs kill it in terms of ultimate ear stability and isolation. But to my taste, "perfect" sound-just a matter of one being OK with them being "shower heads" earbuds and not bass heavy (beautiful bass presentation, but not emphasized-it won't sound too thin barring a bad fit.)

Thanks so much to everyone that helped me with my Chaconne fit issues!


----------



## Charlyro222

Star Ace said:


> Ended up using the Chaconne with HIeGI foams and *no* rubber for a great fit. After learning their fit, I find them usable with both stock and HIeGI foams only, but the latter is a more snug fit, without much changing the sound signature.
> 
> I found that with the rubber circles, only the stock foams did not "negatively" impact the sound, and that is why I did not prefer the HIeGIs before. Now they do sound wonderful, without affecting the upper mids and highs much if at all.
> 
> ...


I don´t have Chaconne, perhaps one day..... but I totally agree with you about earbuds.
I owned a lot of TIER iems and the timbre on earbuds is better by far for my tastes, no matter the issolation for me.


----------



## Billyak

Charlyro222 said:


> I don´t have Chaconne, perhaps one day..... but I totally agree with you about earbuds.
> I owned a lot of TIER iems and the timbre on earbuds is better by far for my tastes, no matter the issolation for me.


This is what is absolutely killing it for me.  The timbre of earbuds sounds so natural compared to all the IEMs I have.  Only my HD650 can reproduce that natural timbre I am looking for. 

The way they reproduce the resonance of instruments and vocals is amazing and out of all the technical attributes of listening equipment I have found that the correct sounding timbre is what I appreciate the most.


----------



## ian91 (Dec 18, 2021)

Billyak said:


> This is what is absolutely killing it for me.  The timbre of earbuds sounds so natural compared to all the IEMs I have.  Only my HD650 can reproduce that natural timbre I am looking for.
> 
> The way they reproduce the resonance of instruments and vocals is amazing and out of all the technical attributes of listening equipment I have found that the correct sounding timbre is what I appreciate the most.



Same boat here! A lot of the time I don't need the technical prowess of IEMs, I just want to hear the sweet reverb of strings or the breath through a woodwind instrument and earbuds do that best.


----------



## Scuba Devils

Yeah I love Chaconne and is now my most used daily bud, love it for ambient and modern classical - the timbre and staging is unreal. I was listening to an album in bed this morning, a new one so not familiar and it honestly took me a moment a few times to establish if noises were in the music or from the room/house!


----------



## XmarX

So, the Moondrop Chaconne is very good, right?
But thats 250 quid 

Would a Yincrow 2000 be 
close enough?


----------



## n00b

XmarX said:


> So, the Moondrop Chaconne is very good, right?
> But thats 250 quid
> 
> Would a Yincrow 2000 be
> close enough?


Get K’s LBBS if you want something similar but affordable


----------



## Black-Wolf (Dec 19, 2021)

I listened to the 32Pro some more those days and i'm still puzzled by those little things.
I listen to audio gear for many years but i'm not a real gearhead, i tend to look for something that pleases me and stick with it for some years.
The 32Pro really please me: smooth, natural, good timbre and really resolving for earbuds.

I use them on a Xiaomi phone with the excellent E1DA 9038D dongle. (Insanely resolving and powerful for a mobile device)

I still have to compare them to more expensive ones like the Astrotec Lyra Nature (which don't get the love they deserve, i think) and some other TOTL for example but i may have found an endgame for now.

Buy those and the Bell LBBS abd you have 2 really fantastic and complementary buds for a very reasonnable price.


----------



## assassin10000

So brief listen to the TI7, these have the warmth missing from the ACG's with a more polite (less harsh) treble. 

They have more bass than the ACG's did going by (somewhat faulty) memory.


----------



## mochill

assassin10000 said:


> So brief listen to the TI7, these have the warmth missing from the ACG's with a more polite (less harsh) treble.
> 
> They have more bass than the ACG's did going by (somewhat faulty) memory.


You need newbsound 32pro 😁


----------



## assassin10000

mochill said:


> You need newbsound 32pro 😁





I actually prefer a more 'cool' or analytical signature with a mild pinna gain (8-12db) and good extension on both ends (sub-bass and upper treble).

So with the impressions I've read on it, it may not be my cup of tea.


----------



## mochill

You'll never find out if you never try


----------



## thamasha69

Charlyro222 said:


> I think all DAPS, DACS and AMPS with organic signature (R2R, tubes ....) can get the best from 32pro.
> 
> But Shanling M3X is a very affordable DAP, so small, handy and with a great battery.


I think we may share similar hearing- I posted similar sentiments regarding using the 32pro with my Opus 11 back in October.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16627642


----------



## assassin10000

mochill said:


> You'll never find out if you never try



True.

Is it etymotic like?


----------



## mochill

Get it and find out 😜


----------



## n00b

^ i dont think thats really helpful. i own a couple of 32pros and dont think it will suit your preferences if you like a colder analytical sound. 32pro is warm, grand, musical, analogue, smooth, bassy. when i think of an analytical earbud i remember when i got the nicehck ebx21. with that said, there is some merit in trying stuff even if you dont think you’ll like it if you can afford it, you might realize your tastes have changed or are more open than you once thought


----------



## Black-Wolf

I agree with nOOB, 32Pro probably won't be your cup of tea. You can look for Bell LBBS (very resolving), or analytical earbuds like EBX or if you have the budget Chaconne or Bell TI (but i have not listened to them...mabye one day).. or Rose Maria, maybe? 
As an Etymotic lover, i can tell you 32Pro are very very different. Difficult to find something which looks like Ety (i mean very detailed, based on thé Diffuse Field Curve without being bright) with earbuds


----------



## Charlyro222

Black-Wolf said:


> I agree with nOOB, 32Pro probably won't be your cup of tea. You can look for Bell LBBS (very resolving), or analytical earbuds like EBX or if you have the budget Chaconne or Bell TI (but i have not listened to them...mabye one day).. or Rose Maria, maybe?
> As an Etymotic lover, i can tell you 32Pro are very very different. Difficult to find something which looks like Ety (i mean very detailed, based on thé Diffuse Field Curve without being bright) with earbuds


If you really like outstanding detailed and cristal  mids, no doubt for me, blur 189 mx150 is the way to go.


----------



## Black-Wolf

Charlyro222 said:


> If you really like outstanding detailed and cristal  mids, no doubt for me, blur 189 mx150 is the way to go.


Indeed, i read very good things about them (but i am a litte Lost in the Blur line-up. I see by your signature that you know it very well!). Between those or the Moondrop...seems like a harsh choice!)


----------



## ian91 (Dec 20, 2021)

Charlyro222 said:


> If you really like outstanding detailed and cristal  mids, no doubt for me, blur 189 mx150 is the way to go.



There's a very subtle warmth that keeps the 189 Hybrid MX150 aPs from being what I'd consider cold but it does have analytical qualities. This ever so slight warming effect makes the whole signature delicately 'sweet', especially in the mids, and the midrange is placed further back than alot of other Blur models. The 150 ohm driver is one of the stronger drivers, technically speaking, in the Blur line up and the tuning implemented in the 189 Hybrid MX150 aPs emphasises staging and imaging really well. I think its the best 'analytical' model but my definition of analytical might differ from the majority.


----------



## Carrow

FINALLY TRACKED DOWN A PAIR OF SENNHEISER MX985s LET'S GOOOOOOO


----------



## Charlyro222

ian91 said:


> There's a very subtle warmth that keeps the 189 Hybrid MX150 aPs from being what I'd consider cold but it does have analytical qualities. This ever so slight warming effect makes the whole signature delicately 'sweet', especially in the mids, and the midrange is placed further back than alot of other Blur models. The 150 ohm driver is one of the stronger drivers, technically speaking, in the Blur line up and the tuning implemented in the 189 Hybrid MX150 aPs emphasises staging and imaging really well. I think its the best 'analytical' model but my definition of analytical might differ from the majority.


Even Softears RS10 that I owned and was a technical beast, has a little warm sounding. In my opinion pure analytical signatures are a bit boring.


----------



## regulator

I have Monk Plus, Monk SM, Vido & RY4S+. They all are great value and I enjoy the open sound, I prefer the RY4S+ for most of my library with a lot of rock, techno and hip hop. However, all of these will start distorting in the low frequencies very easily. It's a bit of an edge case - if I really want a basshead experience I will use my IEM or headphones, but if there were a pair of earbuds that can handle bass like in the following tune cranked up, I'd get them (within a budget). 

I'm definitely intrigued by the newbsound for example, if someone could try and give it a shot!


----------



## Chessnaudio

Has anyone tried the Hzsound Bell Rhyme yet?


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 20, 2021)

mochill said:


> Get it and find out 😜


Given the responses below, I think I'll pass.


n00b said:


> ^ i dont think thats really helpful. i own a couple of 32pros and dont think it will suit your preferences if you like a colder analytical sound. 32pro is warm, grand, musical, analogue, smooth, bassy. when i think of an analytical earbud i remember when i got the nicehck ebx21. with that said, there is some merit in trying stuff even if you dont think you’ll like it if you can afford it, you might realize your tastes have changed or are more open than you once thought


I had the original EBX and while more towards my preference, it went too far. It had too much treble for me.


Black-Wolf said:


> I agree with nOOB, 32Pro probably won't be your cup of tea. You can look for Bell LBBS (very resolving), or analytical earbuds like EBX or if you have the budget Chaconne or Bell TI (but i have not listened to them...mabye one day).. or Rose Maria, maybe?
> As an Etymotic lover, i can tell you 32Pro are very very different. Difficult to find something which looks like Ety (i mean very detailed, based on thé Diffuse Field Curve without being bright) with earbuds


I have 2 of them currently lol.

I also MMCX modded my '18 LBS (sold it) and my '20 spc LBS, the '20 also got swapped to a 150Ω redfilm driver. Tuned it to my preference.






I may MMCX mod one or both of my '21 LBBs. I have another 32Ω ti driver that I like, so one pair may get those.



Charlyro222 said:


> If you really like outstanding detailed and cristal  mids, no doubt for me, blur 189 mx150 is the way to go.





ian91 said:


> There's a very subtle warmth that keeps the 189 Hybrid MX150 aPs from being what I'd consider cold but it does have analytical qualities. This ever so slight warming effect makes the whole signature delicately 'sweet', especially in the mids, and the midrange is placed further back than alot of other Blur models. The 150 ohm driver is one of the stronger drivers, technically speaking, in the Blur line up and the tuning implemented in the 189 Hybrid MX150 aPs emphasises staging and imaging really well. I think its the best 'analytical' model but my definition of analytical might differ from the majority.


If I liked MX shells I'd consider it. But I prefer PK or similar smaller shells. My concha is on the smaller side and MX shells hurt after a while.



Charlyro222 said:


> Even Softears RS10 that I owned and was a technical beast, has a little warm sounding. In my opinion pure analytical signatures are a bit boring.


Yes, I like a cooler signature thats towards analytical. But not so cold or treble heavy it becomes fatiguing or boring to listen to.

Where possible I like sub-bass extension that doesn't have the mid-bass hump that most earbuds have. That hump tends to bleed into the mids too much for me. Unfortunately this is very rare, I've only achieved it on my own DIY buds.


The Rose Maria II or the K's Bell Ti have been on my mind, I just haven't been able to bring myself to pull the trigger. The Ti especially given @WoodyLuvr's troubles.


----------



## mochill

assassin10000 said:


> Given the responses below, I think I'll pass.
> 
> I had the original EBX and while more towards my preference, it went too far. It had too much treble for me.
> 
> ...


Maybe 7hz beatles


----------



## Sam L

regulator said:


> I have Monk Plus, Monk SM, Vido & RY4S+. They all are great value and I enjoy the open sound, I prefer the RY4S+ for most of my library with a lot of rock, techno and hip hop. However, all of these will start distorting in the low frequencies very easily. It's a bit of an edge case - if I really want a basshead experience I will use my IEM or headphones, but if there were a pair of earbuds that can handle bass like in the following tune cranked up, I'd get them (within a budget).
> 
> I'm definitely intrigued by the newbsound for example, if someone could try and give it a shot!



what source do you use? do you an android device?


----------



## regulator

Sam L said:


> what source do you use? do you an android device?


Qudelix 5K + LG G7


----------



## Sam L

regulator said:


> Qudelix 5K + LG G7


download wavelet and install my wavelet profile. The PEQ settings can be manually entered into the Qudelix, same thing for the fixed band file (10 band GEQ).


----------



## Scuba Devils

I was listening to the Penon BS1 Official again today, first time in a while and this time hooked up to my new R01 - they sound fantastic and so comfortable too.


----------



## regulator

Sam L said:


> download wavelet and install my wavelet profile. The PEQ settings can be manually entered into the Qudelix, same thing for the fixed band file (10 band GEQ).


thanks, i will give it a try! i have been using the one PEQ profile qudelix app pulls from the database for now


----------



## waynes world (Dec 20, 2021)

regulator said:


> I have Monk Plus, Monk SM, Vido & RY4S+. They all are great value and I enjoy the open sound, I prefer the RY4S+ for most of my library with a lot of rock, techno and hip hop. However, all of these will start distorting in the low frequencies very easily. It's a bit of an edge case - if I really want a basshead experience I will use my IEM or headphones, but if there were a pair of earbuds that can handle bass like in the following tune cranked up, I'd get them (within a budget).
> 
> I'm definitely intrigued by the newbsound for example, if someone could try and give it a shot!




I know what you mean about bass distortion on some (many) buds. I happened to have the Svara ST10 BG's in my ears when I read your post, and they handle that bass like a champ - a lot of sub bass ear tickling rumble without any distortion that I can detect. Btw, cool groove!

Edit: I'll give that tune a try on Dec24 with the 32pro's when my Christmas present is scheduled to get here 

Edit2: Sam's wavelet files rock.


----------



## povidlo

New arrivals on AliExpress:

Pizen 32 ohm
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mPgciI0

Pizen 150 ohm
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mq0v2OC

DQSM Z&W Pandas
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mtZ2rOy


----------



## WoodyLuvr

povidlo said:


> New arrivals on AliExpress:
> 
> Pizen 32 ohm
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mPgciI0
> ...


FYI that Pandas debuted back 2017 (Heads up! this is a banned brand on Head-Fi)


----------



## Barndoor

Penon have HE 150ohm as a new item in their Ali store. Looks to be a model dating back to 2016 that had a couple of good reviews.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003642330513.html
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/he-150ohm-hifi-earbud.22100/reviews


----------



## jao29 (Dec 21, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> FYI that Pandas debuted back 2017 (Heads up! this is a banned brand on Head-Fi)


Yeah, I hear about them awhile back. Are they any good? What’s the sound characteristics? 😊 Might go for another pk shell styled earbuds. The Ve Monk slim metal pk shell suit me fine but since they’re metal, the earbuds themselves are heavy, and my ears get tired after an hour or so.


----------



## Buchi

I received the Bell LBBS today and they really sing. Unfortunately I don't have my Smabat Super Point to compare as one of the drivers died unexpectedly (Lin sent me 2 drivers which are currently on the way, great guy).

I'm going to finally retire my Faaeal Rosemary, although different sounding but I appreciate the more analytical sound of Bell and Smabat to the warmth of Faaeal.

I also got the Tin T3 Plus which makes it my 2nd Tin Hifi iem since I bought the original T2. 

These might be my best 2 audio purchases since 2017 when I started lurking around Head-Fi.

Hopefully the Smabat ST20 impresses.


----------



## mwkzicwz (Dec 21, 2021)

Just got myself a LBBs. However, I choose to go with the white version as per this post.


assassin10000 said:


> Just am FYI, the white and mic versions are also the newer LBBS driver/tunings. I ordered a 2021 mic version for modding as it was cheaper, and it was better sounding than the 2020 white I already have.
> 
> I even checked resistance to see if the mic cable had higher resistance on one side than the other, as some crap cables do. It does not. No channel imbalance either.
> 
> ...


It sounds good. I think I get the hint of V-shape as mentioned in this post.


assassin10000 said:


> That and sound signature. The older LB/LBB is a warm, smooth but still detailed sound signature.
> 
> The LBBs is a more V-shaped signature that doesn't go too far in its upper mid/lower treble boost.
> 
> ...


And the the serial number starts with K21 as being said here.


assassin10000 said:


> Check the box if you still have it. If the serial number starts with K21 you're good to go. If K20, K19 or older it's a different driver/tuning.



However, I just want to double check whether there is another difference between the 2021 version and last year version. I don't know, just want to make sure I get the right thing because I bought this one from a local seller. What worries me is the checklist on the box which states that this one is a LB W version. Can you guys confirm?

I attached a picture of the box.






Thanks in advance.


----------



## povidlo

WoodyLuvr said:


> FYI that Pandas debuted back 2017 (Heads up! this is a banned brand on Head-Fi)


Are you sure? I thought banned brands get blanked out with ****, like the manufacturer of PT2021.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Dec 21, 2021)

povidlo said:


> Are you sure? I thought banned brands get blanked out with ****, like the manufacturer of PT2021.


*An Answer May Lay In Here*

I too am wondering if it may be off the "no-no" list now as well.


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 21, 2021)

mwkzicwz said:


> However, I just want to double check whether there is another difference between the 2021 version and last year version. I don't know, just want to make sure I get the right thing because I bought this one from a local seller. What worries me is the checklist on the box which states that this one is a LB W version. Can you guys confirm?
> 
> I attached a picture of the box.
> 
> ...



'18 & '19 then '20 & '21 are different. Afaik.

The B, W, S on the box is for the different color & mic cable options.


Here's a pic of my '20 LB 'W'.


----------



## syazwaned

assassin10000 said:


> '18 & '19 then '20 & '21 are different. Afaik.
> 
> The B, W, S on the box is for the different color & mic cable options.
> 
> ...


Is the white version is as good as the LBBS?


----------



## Barndoor

I haven't opened my LBBS yet, but the tick on the box was next to the S


----------



## assassin10000

syazwaned said:


> Is the white version is as good as the LBBS?


The 2021 white is the same tuning as the black afaik. Just a plated cable instead of copper.

I think the 2020 and older were different.


----------



## sunsun89 (Dec 21, 2021)

assassin10000 said:


> The 2021 white is the same tuning as the black afaik. Just a plated cable instead of copper.
> 
> I think the 2020 and older were different.


u should mention the 3.5jack too. i heard LBBS using oyaide or rhodium?? (silver color jack). while the white one got gold platted jack


----------



## sunsun89 (Dec 21, 2021)

double post


----------



## mwkzicwz (Dec 22, 2021)

assassin10000 said:


> '18 & '19 then '20 & '21 are different. Afaik.
> 
> The B, W, S on the box is for the different color & mic cable options.


Thank you for your confirmation. I can see that there is a difference in the jack--2020 version uses gold platted one while this version I have with me is using silver-colored jack. Someone also told me that the older models don't have a chin slider while this one has it. Perhaps anyone can confirm on this?



sunsun89 said:


> u should mention the 3.5jack too. i heard LBBS using oyaide or rhodium?? (silver color jack). while the white one got gold platted jack


Same as mine so I guess they really are using the same driver and tuning now. Afaik the difference between LBBs and the white version is LBBs uses copper cable, while the white version uses silver-platted copper cable. I can't confirm on this one, though. (Edit: This was stated verbatim in the following post lol)


assassin10000 said:


> The 2021 white is the same tuning as the black afaik. Just a plated cable instead of copper.
> 
> I think the 2020 and older were different.





Barndoor said:


> I haven't opened my LBBS yet, but the tick on the box was next to the S


Honestly this one is a pretty interesting note, because actually there were LBs type (if we were to read as written on the box) as referenced in the following post. So I guess they just keep their old labeling even though it's a different name in the market now. Well, according to the documentation in the box, this product I received should be a LBBs (it says 小黑铃 in the brochure).


WoodyLuvr said:


> Please note that there is a *LBS* (an older model) out there... so as to not confuse with *LBBs aka LBBS*.
> 
> *2018 - K's Temperament 小铃 Bell-LBS 30Ω *_(aka "Original Little Bell-Silver")_
> *2020 - K's Temperament 小黑铃 Bell-LBBs 30Ω* _(aka "New Little Black Bell S")_



And a final note to myself, Kaisheng Techology really suck at distingushing their product models.


----------



## Kamen555

This is what I got. 
K21 I think, with silver termination n chin strap. So I got d new version? Still sounds good though.


----------



## mwkzicwz

Kamen555 said:


> This is what I got.
> K21 I think, with silver termination n chin strap. So I got d new version? Still sounds good though.


Yes. Yours is the canon LBBs. You are good to go.


----------



## syazwaned

Between Moondrop Chaconne and other TOTL  earbuds,


WoodyLuvr said:


> Firstly, welcome to the fold and be forewarned "_*here be a very deep rabbit hole*_".
> 
> 
> Secondly, we generally have avoided rankings on this thread as it had caused us some problems before... years ago an "earlier" version of this thread had a ranking list but it caused such a period of disagreement that it was eventually taken down in order to maintain the peace. No one would could agree to disagree . Plus, everyone has their own listening, tuning, cabling, and shell-type preferences.
> ...


@WoodyLuvr what would be the best God Tier side grade for Moondrop Chaconne?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

syazwaned said:


> Between Moondrop Chaconne and other TOTL  earbuds,
> 
> @WoodyLuvr what would be the best God Tier side grade for Moondrop Chaconne?


In the same ballpark there are: FiiO EM5, NiceHCK EBX21, Blur Hybrid MX64 aPs, and Blur 266R MX64 Reference aPs. Kind of similar and worth considering are: Rose Technics Maria II, **** Turandot, and **** PD21.


----------



## syazwaned

WoodyLuvr said:


> In the same ballpark there are: FiiO EM5, NiceHCK EBX21, Blur Hybrid MX64 aPs, and Blur 266R MX64 Reference aPs. Kind of similar and worth considering are: Rose Technics Maria II, **** Turandot, and **** PD21.


Thanks Friends appreciate it


----------



## povidlo

WoodyLuvr said:


> *An Answer May Lay In Here*
> 
> I too am wondering if it may be off the "no-no" list now as well.


I think DQSM might be off banned list now.

Head-Fi shared PD21 review on FB page themselves. The same @ClieOS review was featured on Head-Fi homepage if I remember correctly.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

povidlo said:


> I think DQSM might be off banned list now.
> 
> Head-Fi shared PD21 review on FB page themselves. The same @ClieOS review was featured on Head-Fi homepage if I remember correctly.


Good catch there! I believe you are right good sir.  I'll update my God-Tier List, Earbuds Timeline, and my Turandot review. Thanks!


----------



## regulator

waynes world said:


> I know what you mean about bass distortion on some (many) buds. I happened to have the Svara ST10 BG's in my ears when I read your post, and they handle that bass like a champ - a lot of sub bass ear tickling rumble without any distortion that I can detect. Btw, cool groove!
> 
> Edit: I'll give that tune a try on Dec24 with the 32pro's when my Christmas present is scheduled to get here
> 
> Edit2: Sam's wavelet files rock.


Thanks! Yeah Smabat ST10 has been on my mind based on my initial studies. Might try and squeeze it into my budget in early 2022!


----------



## rprodrigues

povidlo said:


> New arrivals on AliExpress:
> 
> Pizen 32 ohm
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mPgciI0
> ...



I would order  the 150ohm version, but the seller changed its price from $23 to $41 just after I asked for a discount. In the end, he offered 10% off (from $41).


----------



## Black-Wolf

povidlo said:


> I think DQSM might be off banned list now.
> 
> Head-Fi shared PD21 review on FB page themselves. The same @ClieOS review was featured on Head-Fi homepage if I remember correctly.


Glad to read that, i don't own the PD31 but i have the Turandot and they are really TOTL buds. They may have screwed up to get banned but their products are very good.


----------



## povidlo

rprodrigues said:


> I would order  the 150ohm version, but the seller changed its price from $23 to $41 just after I asked for a discount. In the end, he offered 10% off (from $41).


Sorry to hear. Not nice to do that. Even if price error, seller should've honoured it at least for you.


----------



## Billyak

WoodyLuvr said:


> In the same ballpark there are: FiiO EM5, NiceHCK EBX21, Blur Hybrid MX64 aPs, and Blur 266R MX64 Reference aPs. Kind of similar and worth considering are: Rose Technics Maria II, **** Turandot, and **** PD21.



I really did not like my EBX21 at first. Far too much treble and not enough bass. But with EQ boosting bass (low shelf at 200hz +5db 0.5Q) and cutting treble (high shelf 5khz -3db 0.5Q) it really makes them sound fuller and richer whilst keeping the great imaging and timbre these buds have.


----------



## foniak

I havent checked this thread in a while. Is the LBBS still recomended as one of the top dogs? I was hesitant because the shape really weird.
My previous earbuds were Yuin PK3 original one (the new one was reported to be worse) and the Nice HCK EB2, both really clear and crisp sound, good bass, epic soundstage if you ask me for a cheap plastic earbuds.


----------



## Black-Wolf (Dec 22, 2021)

foniak said:


> I havent checked this thread in a while. Is the LBBS still recomended as one of the top dogs? I was hesitant because the shape really weird.
> My previous earbuds were Yuin PK3 original one (the new one was reported to be worse) and the Nice HCK EB2, both really clear and crisp sound, good bass, epic soundstage if you ask me for a cheap plastic earbuds.


It is, yes. LBBS are fantastic if you like clear and crisp earbuds. LBBS are quite bass-light but not too lacking in this area and they are not bright or harsh neither.
They are among my favorites, especially for the price.
Would like the sale with a detachable cable...

Édit: i understand your hesitation about the fit. They fit me well and are confortable but not very stable without the earhooks.


----------



## foniak

Black-Wolf said:


> It is, yes. LBBS are fantastic if you like clear and crisp earbuds. LBBS are quite bass-light but not too lacking in this area and they are not bright or harsh neither.
> They are among my favorites, especially for the price.
> Would like the sale with a detachable cable...
> 
> Édit: i understand your hesitation about the fit. They fit me well and are confortable but not very stable without the earhooks.


Well I don't want to use earhooks.. I wonder why he went with that design. Are there any alternatives with the traditional shape?


----------



## Billyak

I have found the LBBs to wear easy up or down. And they are absolutely awesome buds.


----------



## Black-Wolf

foniak said:


> Well I don't want to use earhooks.. I wonder why he went with that design. Are there any alternatives with the traditional shape?


Not that i know with this sound signature and these technical aspects. It's better if wore over thé ears, it is even quite good. They will fit, they may just not be very stable. I think they worth a try even with this little fit problem.


----------



## waynes world

foniak said:


> Well I don't want to use earhooks.. I wonder why he went with that design. Are there any alternatives with the traditional shape?



Fwiw, I have no problem using them without earhooks. For me, they stay put in my ears as well as any (using donut foams).


----------



## RikudouGoku

foniak said:


> Well I don't want to use earhooks.. I wonder why he went with that design. Are there any alternatives with the traditional shape?


I dont use them over-ear.


----------



## EinTheVariance

I don't have major fit issues, but I found silicone rings are enough to help the earbuds stay in your ear without going over-ear/using earhooks.  I use these:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001146948880.html?spm=a2g0o.9042311.0.0.56f84c4d82UjXV

I got the LBBS at the same time as the Chaconne, so here's my impressions after some time with them.

First the Chaconne.  Really impressed by them, they definitely don't lose out to any other headphones in the price range.  Bass section is definitely lacking, but treble is amazing.  They sound very open and airy, with detail retrieval and imaging being very impressive.  I tried Hiegi foams though and while they are super comfy, they seem to be too thick and I feel like they take away from some sparkle up top, so I ended up using the thinner foams from the VE Ex pack instead, which is slightly less comfortable (they kinda tickle my ears), but are thin enough to let the treble still shine while still adding some body that is missing without any foams on.  The foams do tend to slip off somewhat easily due to the shape of the Chaconne, so I ended up putting silicone rings over the foam to keep the foams from slipping off and also make them a bit more comfortable.  Fit is improved as well as noted above.

The LBBS is also good.  Immediately vs the Chaconne, I can tell there is a lot more bass presence.  It is a lot punchier, but not muddier or darker.  In fact, they seem to be quite bright, to the point that certain instruments teeter on the edge of being too peaky at higher volume.  This could be due to the foams I'm using with them though.  I also notice right away the drop in detail retrieval and separation of instruments on busier tracks are not quite as good.  They're great for the price, but I wouldn't put them on the same tier as Chaconne at all honestly.  Foams wise, I tried the stock full foams but felt they muddied up the sound too much, so I ended up settling for the stock donut foam.  I may have to try the thin VE foams on these as well as they might need some peak taming.  Foams stay on a lot better on the bell shape, but I still put silicone ring over them for better fit as they are smaller


----------



## syazwaned

EinTheVariance said:


> I don't have major fit issues, but I found silicone rings are enough to help the earbuds stay in your ear without going over-ear/using earhooks.  I use these:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001146948880.html?spm=a2g0o.9042311.0.0.56f84c4d82UjXV
> 
> I got the LBBS at the same time as the Chaconne, so here's my impressions after some time with them.
> ...


Thanks for doing this! Does Chaconne sound significantly different to Zen 2.0?


----------



## Ronion

EinTheVariance said:


> I don't have major fit issues, but I found silicone rings are enough to help the earbuds stay in your ear without going over-ear/using earhooks.  I use these:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001146948880.html?spm=a2g0o.9042311.0.0.56f84c4d82UjXV
> 
> I got the LBBS at the same time as the Chaconne, so here's my impressions after some time with them.
> ...


That’s a very similar sonic experience to mine with them


----------



## EinTheVariance

syazwaned said:


> Thanks for doing this! Does Chaconne sound significantly different to Zen 2.0?


yes, the Zen 2.0 is pretty tame in the treble, they're more mid-focused, a lot warmer and closer.  The Chaconne has more of an airy presentation.  I'd easily pick the Chaconne over the Zen (or any other earbuds I've heard honestly).  Compared to open back headphones, the Zen 2.0 sound is closer to HD600 whereas the Chaconne is like an ATH-AD2000.


Ronion said:


> That’s a very similar sonic experience to mine with them


glad to know I'm not alone in my thoughts, cheers!


----------



## syazwaned

EinTheVariance said:


> yes, the Zen 2.0 is pretty tame in the treble, they're more mid-focused, a lot warmer and closer.  The Chaconne has more of an airy presentation.  I'd easily pick the Chaconne over the Zen (or any other earbuds I've heard honestly).  Compared to open back headphones, the Zen 2.0 sound is closer to HD600 whereas the Chaconne is like an ATH-AD2000.
> 
> glad to know I'm not alone in my thoughts, cheers!


Thanks, been looking for a side grades companion to Chaconne. Thinking Sun Dice or, Zen 2.0 would be okay


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Oct 8, 2022)

syazwaned said:


> Thanks, been looking for a side grades companion to Chaconne. Thinking Sun Dice or, Zen 2.0 would be okay


Just a friendly 'heads up!'.

Although the VE Dice, VE Zen 2, or even the Shozy BK may share some rather strong similarities with the Moondrop Chaconne these earbuds are much, much warmer/darker sounding than one might realize... so they are not exactly a true or best side-grade to the Chaconne. Also, please kindly note that both those VE earbuds are higher impedance and do require power to sound their best.

The Moondrop Chaconne do indeed have a very strong and rather dominating secondary sound characteristic that is warmish-darkish... just not to the extent of the VE Zen 2/Sun Dice or Shozy BK. And although the Chaconne do have excellent sub-bass, reaching down low with awesome detail retrieval, it is done in a very subtle, gentle way that is not conducive to bass-heavy or bass-detailed genres like EDM, Dance, Hip-Hop, Rap, etc... they are truly a disappoint with this type of music unfortunately.

It must be stressed that *Moondrop Chaconne's primary signature is "AIRY" with a surprising silky smooth well-extended (elevated) upper mid-range and treble...* on a God-Tier level and thus absolutely perfect for acoustic/vocal based recordings. This is also why many of us consider the Chaconne to be a _specialty earbud_ (a one or two trick pony) only and not a recommended '_all-rounder_'. So for a true side-grade of the Chaconne one would be strongly encouraged to look for "warm-like" buds with similar strong "airy" characteristics.

Some "warm-like" earbuds that have some "airy" qualities that you should consider are as follows:

*Ksearphone 蓝精铃 Bell-Blue* (_aka "The Smurfs" / "Blue Bell" / "Bell Smurf"_)
*Ksearphone 小黑铃 Bell-LBBs*
*Ksearphone 钛铃阴阳师2021版 Bell-Ti Onmyoji v2021 *(*WARNING: The *_*Bell-Ti series has had some serious QC issues*_)
*Simphonio SW-Dragon 3 Plus* (aka "SWD3+"; _*probably the most warm sounding in this list; 120Ω so this needs power to shine... they do have some naughty fatiguing treble spikes*_)

As mentioned before in my previous post here are some other similar sounding "airy-like" earbuds to consider:

*FiiO EM5*
*NiceHCK EBX21*
*Blur Hybrid MX64 aPs*
*Blur 266R MX64 Reference aPs*
*DQSM Turandot*
*DQSM PD21*
*Rose Technics Maria II *_*(airy but also bright leaning)*_


----------



## syazwaned

WoodyLuvr said:


> Just a friendly 'heads up!'.
> 
> Although the VE Dice, VE Zen 2, or even the Shozy BK may share some rather strong similarities with the Moondrop Chaconne these earbuds are much, much warmer/darker sounding than one might realize... so they are not exactly a true or best side-grade to the Chaconne. Also, please kindly note that both those VE earbuds are higher impedance and do require power to sound their best.
> 
> ...


Thanks friend for you suggestion. I currently have LBBs, and love it so much! Simphonio SW Dragon 3 plus piqued my interest, but it is way about my affordability. I remember Wong said that  Blur 266R MX64 Reference aPs has big bass, so should be a good side grade for Chaconne. 

Thanks again @WoodyLuvr


----------



## RikudouGoku

Oh, right guess I should mention I have added these rankings:


K´s K300: C-

QianYun Qian39: S


----------



## syazwaned

RikudouGoku said:


> Oh, right guess I should mention I have added these rankings:
> 
> 
> K´s K300: C-
> ...


whoa another S rank!  Gonna try it out.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> Oh, right guess I should mention I have added these rankings:
> 
> 
> K´s K300: C-
> ...





syazwaned said:


> whoa another S rank!  Gonna try it out.


The quintessential sleeping earbud! Warm n' gooey making you feel all nice inside.


----------



## FranQL




----------



## Ynot1 (Dec 23, 2021)

I had a broken Sony MDR-W11 with driver enclosure that fell apart.
So I decided to replace the driver with a Vido driver. I figured if I’m going
to fix this, that I might as well try to improve the sound.
I unsoldered the Sony driver and soldered in the Vido driver.
I took pictures to show what was done.




The sound in my opinion is significantly better than the Sony stock. And the Vido tuning was changed.
The mid bass went up greatly while the treble remained fairly original. The efficiency I think went up
with the rear cavity being more sealed than before Vido. I think this is one of the ways to increase bass
and modify the tuning. By the way the driver did not require any other means to anchor to the headband.
I used the softest heat shrink that I had.
Easy peasy.

Edit: Where are my manners. What's the point, right?


----------



## InvisibleInk

Just got the QianYun Qian39. This thing is awesome sounding right out of the zip lock bag it came in! Just sensational across the spectrum of my hearing and preference.


----------



## feverfive

^^ Damn, I forgot to grab my Q39 when I was (finally) at my office last week.  I grabbed the ER4XR that I'm gonna sell, but forgot the earbuds.  I bought them a few months ago merely to test what type shells fit me best.  Honestly, never really paid any attention to sound characteristics over the maybe 2 hours total I've had them in my ears.  Probably won't be back at the office for a couple months at least.


----------



## rprodrigues

povidlo said:


> Sorry to hear. Not nice to do that. Even if price error, seller should've honoured it at least for you.


Update: in the end, they honoured the first price.


----------



## povidlo

rprodrigues said:


> Update: in the end, they honoured the first price.


Good to know. Kindly share your impressions on arrival.


----------



## Black-Wolf (Dec 24, 2021)

InvisibleInk said:


> Just got the QianYun Qian39. This thing is awesome sounding right out of the zip lock bag it came in! Just sensational across the spectrum of my hearing and preference.


Qian 69 are very good too, a litte upgrade IMHO, but i can't find them anymore on Aliexpress, they may have been stopped...
Nervertheless, the 39 are much more confortable, i think.


----------



## rprodrigues

Black-Wolf said:


> Qian 69 are very good too, a litte upgrade IMHO, but i can't find them anymore on Aliexpress, they may have been stopped...
> Nervertheless, the 39 are much more confortable, i think.



Fengru still sells them on Shopee. Maybe if you ask, they may sells Qian 69 on Aliexpress as well.


----------



## captione (Dec 27, 2021)

Hi guys, I'm back and I'm sorry for the sudden appearance, I've been busy on the DIY earbuds thread since and some stuff IRL so I haven't interacted that much in this thread. I'll just share my reviews on some various prebuilts that I currently have right now and I hope some of you might find it helpful!~

*Earbuds shootout*
I wanted to review some of the prebuilts that stayed and visited me throughout the year, so I thought of sharing some of my experiences with you guys. I will only give short reviews/impressions for them because making longer paragraphs will bore the reader even more, most of them have the same qualities (esp. the build and packaging) so omitting most of those details would be more efficient and I’m just really lazy so three birds in one stone I guess?

*Some parameters:*


I like my earbuds on any signature, as long as it has sufficient bass performance. I want them to be at least well rounded in the bass region.
I always put foamies on my earbud whenever possible (with exceptions such as the Motorola earbuds that I’ll discuss later on). I believe foams are vital to the fit and bass performance of the earbuds.
I will use my *Zishan U1* and *Aune BU2* (for balanced pairs such as EB2) for the source and power. Rest assured, they drive these pairs very well and I don’t need the “scalability” excuse for an earbud that is not even hard to drive, spec-wise 
I will omit some of the details that you might expect with a full review. I want to make it simple and short, but if you want to know more I am willing to answer your questions!
In terms of foamie types, I will use the usual foamies with other models EXCEPT VE earbuds since I wanted to use it with its stock foamies as much as possible.
There are some models that I recabled and refurbished, especially Kube pairs with its crumbly tuning foam inside due to stock quality or my refurbished TY Hi-Z 32ohms, but rest assured, the sound changes are minimal at best.
I will try to compare and reference some models mentioned here, and further expand on models with early versions such as Monk Plus MP5, which I had the experience with the previous version.
Here is most of the music I listen to test these earbuds: https://www.last.fm/user/varia_ble
*[NEW] *This megapost will be_ continously updated with new earbuds_, and I'll try to review alot of them as much as I can so stay tuned!

*List of Earbuds:*

Kube 1.0 Orange (replaced the crumbly old tuning foam)
DIY TC200 (recabled, old ver)
Headroom MS16 (recabled)
TY Hi-Z 32ohms (reshelled, recabled)
FAAEAL Snow Lotus 1.0 CE Edition
K’searphones K64
VE Monk Plus “MP5” version, standard smoke translucent shell
VE Monk GO
Yincrow X6/Vido
Willsound MK2
Nicehck EB2
Not-by-VE Motorola earbuds


*Kube 1.0 Orange*
Built like a bundled earbud, thin orange cable on Orange 15.4mm MX500 shells, also very old pairs so I recommend changing the crumbling tuning foam inside if you are skilled to do so.
Very warm V-U shape in signature. One of the most boisterous bass responses I’ve ever heard in a prebuilt, even reaching sub-bass levels. The mid-range is mushed with warmth although it makes for a smooth listen. There is energy in the treble section but cuts off early at the lower treble. Soundstage is below average for an earbud, a bit claustrophobic at times.


*Headroom MS16*
The stock mic cable form of this earbud is so horrible that it even turns the drivers into a microphone, so I had to recable it. Uses metal open back 15.4mm shells.
Warm-midcentric signature. Bass is just “there” with mid-bass focus. The midrange is a bit smoothed out. Treble rolls off early but the open back design really helps with the sense of “air” and atmosphere in the music. The open back shells contribute to its wide sense of soundstage although it could’ve used a bit more depth.


*TY Hi-Z 32ohms*
I kinda played around with the stock form of this and put the drivers in different shells, but I missed how it sounded stock so I “restored” it with a new shell and cable. Uses 15.4mm MX500 shells.
Almost a lean U-shape signature, some have even called it neutral and it’s understandable. Good bass extension with good mid bass and sub bass amounts.  Minimal warmth in the midrange section. Treble is where this shines, it extends very well and gives it a very energetic listening experience, although some people might find it sibilant for their ears. Soundstage is above average, with good width but decent depth of the scene.


*K’searphones K64*
The build basically consists of thin TPE cable on glossy black 15.4mm MX500 shells with the name of the brand on the stems. It’s very easy to open up and re-cable for yourself.
Sports a neutral-bright signature that extends both ends tastefully. Bass is mid bass focused but reaches sub-bass levels when the music calls. Midrange is lean but never dry. Treble is extended but never overwhelming, with the treble focusing on the upper ranges. Soundstage is average for an earbud.


*FAAEAL Snow Lotus 1.0 CE Edition*
Long, sheathed TPE cable on bright blue 15.4mm MX500 shells. Don’t try to recable this pair because the glue on FAAEAL models like these are a pain to take care of. I have the old version with the straight metal 3.5mm plug so variances should be expected.
A smooth neutral signature, much more non-offending than the K64, very good for chill listens, not so much for energetic stuff, might as well be boring for some. Bass is just there, mid bass focused but I wish I could ask for more extension. Mid range is lean and smooth. Treble is just there, but not enough sparkle and air for my ears. Soundstage is decent with more width than depth.


*VE Monk Plus “MP5” version*
Smoky translucent 15.4mm MX500 shells on a TPE cable. Seems like they're using a better and less translucent shell material for this new version.
It has a balanced signature, finally with extended highs and lows compared to the boring midcentric mush of its old version. Bass is mid bass focused and slams when it calls. Midrange is lean but I can still feel a bit of cuppiness in it, and it puts me off on some tracks. Treble is extended and well dosed till the upper regions. Soundstage is average with more depth than width.


*VE Monk Go*
Glossy black 15.4mm MX500 with the same TPE cable as Monk Plus. The shell feels and looks like an opaque version of the Monk Plus shells.
It has a neutral bright signature. Bass is rolled off early till the mid bass. The midrange is lean and almost thin sounding. Treble is extended but only till the lower treble. Soundstage is average.


*Yincrow X6/Vido*
It’s a Vido with a slightly better cable, and sounds like a Vido too. I would rather buy the Vido than this and replace the cable at some point.
It has a dark V-U shaped signature. Bass is lifted and mid-bass focused. Midrange is kinda sunken, and has a warm tone. Treble is rolled off giving it darkness. Soundstage is average.


*Not-by-VE Motorola Earbuds*
Built like a bundled pair of earbuds for phones, but none of that J-cable thing going on, normal TPE cable, the mic setup acts as a splitter and the 14.2mm shells sports a bass vent and an unusual faceplate that makes it hard to use and fit properly even with foams (so no foams are used in the testing for this one).
It has a thin treble-centric sound but the bass is there if you shove it hard on your concha. Bass is almost nonexistent, but given that you have a good fit, it has a pretty good mid bass focused extension. Mids are lean, upper mids are noticeably elevated but not to the point that it’s hard to listen to. Treble is quite extended, you really feel the thinness of the sound signature with the treble performance, and almost nearing sibilance sometimes. Soundstage is below average, feels claustrophobic despite sound leakage.


*Willsound MK2*
This feels like a DIY work rather than a bog standard prebuilt. Bulky L-shape plug, supple and ergonomic 4-core cable with a splitter that ends shorter than usual with the white 15.4mm MX500 shells that has the Willsound logo on it. I like the thought of making the splitter length short to avoid tangles around that part.
This sports a rather upfront U-shape signature, the signature can be tiring for some but I quite like this. Bass is extended well reaching sub bass levels. Mids have a little tinge of warmth and excitement from the upper mids. Treble is extended till the lower treble and doesn’t overdo it. Soundstage is average, more on width than depth.


*Nicehck EB2*
Has a custom 14.8 Bell-shaped shell, with a 2.5mm BAL plug (in my unit) and an SPC cable with a metal splitter/chin cinch combo. Uses the 32ohm Yuin PK3 drivers that were also used in Panda PK2s.
It has a dry balanced signature with an upfront presentation. Bass extends well with mid-bass more on the focus. Mids are lean and dry with some excitement from the upper mids. Treble is extended until the border of the lower and upper treble. Soundstage is so compressed that it can be claustrophobic to some listeners.


*DIY TC200 (old ver.)*
I put DIY in there to indicate that this is the “TC200” that can be bought from Fengru/Girftu/CKLewis/Jietu, and IS NOT the real TC200 that was manufactured by Tingo themselves. Sports the same bootleg Oyaide cable that the Tingo TG38s has, and a similar Silver 15.4mm MX500 shell.
It has a warm signature, and goes almost flat from the upper mids till the upper treble. I wanna call this a “warm-neutral” signature but people are gonna call me out for that. Bass is just there but has enough slam and kick for a lot of tracks. Mids are quite warm and have enough excitement from the upper mids. Treble is almost flat in response but has enough air and sparkle. Soundstaging is above average with more width than depth.


*Notes:*


In this whole list, my top picks are K64, Willsound MK2 and TY Hi-Z 32ohms.
For the bass (quantity wise, top 4 picks), *Kube>Willsound K64>TY Hi-Z 32ohms=Nicehck EB2*
For the treble (quantity wise top 4 picks), *Not-by-VE Motorola>Monk GO>TY Hi-Z 32ohms=K64*
In the list, there are three 64ohm models. I liked the K64 the most. It’s the most competent pair among the other models I mentioned.
VE has improved their tuning on the Monk Plus with the MP5 and has quite surprised me with the Monk GO tuning, but it honestly still has a long way to go compared to K64 as the most superior neutral focused earbud among the neutral earbuds mentioned in the list. It doesn’t have the weird cuppiness that MP5 has, very good slam and kick to the bass, isn’t as thin sounding and not in limited stocks as Monk GO.
I think if you want to increase the bass and warmth factor on MP5 or the GO, I suggest trying normal foams for it, but at the expense of treble performance…
The Not-by-VE Motorola earbud has some potential in the sound, if it wasn’t hindered by the crappy faceplate. It needs some modding on the front holes of the faceplate, or replace it with a more suitable one.
*Thanks for reading!*


----------



## ValSuki

Hey all! I wanted to go deeper in the rabbit hole and go for my first branded ToTL earbud!

I already do in fact have multiple, such as a blur, many monks like slim metal and plus', quite a few DIY ones made by foreign makers and I just adore earbuds. However! I see there are a lot of other enthusiasts with a lot in their collection and would like to have some help. So i shall fill out Woody's list:

*source*: Spotify and on an LGv30, plus a CMoy if needing more power
*preferred connection* 3.5SE
*listening level & time* Hours and half to full volume
*listening environment* House
*preferred sound signature* V-shaped sound
*preferred genre *Metal - Metalcore and possibly electronic
*preferred shell type* Any will do, but yuins are a nice shell. But I can work with any.
*price range* I will never spend more than 500 usd on an earbud. Anything cheaper or below would be greatly appreciated.
_*any special need, consideration, and/or request *_IF it can have a detachable cable, I would love that but if not, I can go with attached!
Thank you!


----------



## Chessnaudio

ValSuki said:


> Hey all! I wanted to go deeper in the rabbit hole and go for my first branded ToTL earbud!
> 
> I already do in fact have multiple, such as a blur, many monks like slim metal and plus', quite a few DIY ones made by foreign makers and I just adore earbuds. However! I see there are a lot of other enthusiasts with a lot in their collection and would like to have some help. So i shall fill out Woody's list:
> 
> ...


Newbsound 32 pro and K's LBBS are the cheap heavy hitters. Good luck with your search


----------



## Kamen555

Just wondering, 
Nyone who own vido buds, does the cable near d shell get stiff after awhile? Mine gets really stiff that it keeps d shape I bend it into... Is this deliberate? The rest of d cable still stays pliable... 🤔


----------



## jogawag (Dec 27, 2021)

Kamen555 said:


> Just wondering,
> Nyone who own vido buds, does the cable near d shell get stiff after awhile? Mine gets really stiff that it keeps d shape I bend it into... Is this deliberate? The rest of d cable still stays pliable... 🤔


The cable of cheap earbuds may harden if left with sebum on it, so you need to wipe off the sebum after use.
Once the cable is hardened, it is impossible to soften it, so you need to buy another earbuds.

Most of the expensive earbuds are designed to prevent hardening due to sebum due to the material of the cable, or they can be re-cabled.

By the way, my Yincrow X6 (Vido's siblings) are made re-cableable with MMCX by me, and I've replaced them with silver-plated cables to enjoy the change in sound.
However, the cost of the MMCX components and cables is over $5, which is not a price match for Vido, which can be purchased for under $3.


----------



## Sam L

What's the difference between the moondrop chaconne gen 1 vs. gen 2? I have one incoming as a christmas present but never bothered researching the difference.


----------



## jogawag

Sam L said:


> What's the difference between the moondrop chaconne gen 1 vs. gen 2? I have one incoming as a christmas present but never bothered researching the difference.


Have a look at this post.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16275110


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Sam L said:


> What's the difference between the moondrop chaconne gen 1 vs. gen 2? I have one incoming as a christmas present but never bothered researching the difference.


Absolutely nothing, they are 'one in the same'. That "2" is a rather poor translation of a Chinese saying indicating (referring) that the Chaconne is an official replacement of the _*Liebesleid*_. Very confusing and quite the norm with a number of Chinese earbud brands!


----------



## syazwaned

WoodyLuvr said:


> Absolutely nothing, they are 'one in the same'. That "2" is a rather poor translation of a Chinese saying indicating (referring) that the Chaconne is an official replacement of the _*Liebesleid*_. Very confusing and quite the norm with a number of Chinese earbud brands!


Will there be a new iteration or improvement over Chaconne? About to order it but afraid @MOONDROP will release a new totl earbuds


----------



## chinmie

syazwaned said:


> Will there be a new iteration or improvement over Chaconne? About to order it but afraid @MOONDROP will release a new totl earbuds



seeing their success in the IEM department, i think they're putting their earbuds in the backseat for now, so i don't think they would come out with a new one in the near future (i could definitely be really wrong though).

on the bright side, even their old TOTL like the Liebesleid is still good sounding in today's standard, and both their past TOTLs have their own character and strength, so not really overlapping each other


----------



## ValSuki

Chessnaudio said:


> Newbsound 32 pro and K's LBBS are the cheap heavy hitters. Good luck with your search


I'll definitely give those a look into!

I know about the LBBS and having some reputation behind it along with the newbsounds, so I could potentially get both with what I have now.


----------



## captione

captione said:


> Hi guys, I'm back and I'm sorry for the sudden appearance, I've been busy on the DIY earbuds thread since and some stuff IRL so I haven't interacted that much in this thread. I'll just share my reviews on some various prebuilts that I currently have right now and I hope some of you might find it helpful!~
> 
> *Earbuds shootout*
> I wanted to review some of the prebuilts that stayed and visited me throughout the year, so I thought of sharing some of my experiences with you guys. I will only give short reviews/impressions for them because making longer paragraphs will bore the reader even more, most of them have the same qualities (esp. the build and packaging) so omitting most of those details would be more efficient and I’m just really lazy so three birds in one stone I guess?
> ...


I have a bunch of other prebuilts incoming (mostly VE earbuds) so I'm gonna update this post when I get to try those. I'll continuously update this post with new earbuds that comes at my desk so stay tuned~


----------



## Kamen555

😅 So basically it's my oily skin that's causing it to harden? Did. Not. Know. That. 


jogawag said:


> The cable of cheap earbuds may harden if left with sebum on it, so you need to wipe off the sebum after use.
> Once the cable is hardened, it is impossible to soften it, so you need to buy another earbuds.
> 
> Most of the expensive earbuds are designed to prevent hardening due to sebum due to the material of the cable, or they can be re-cabled.
> ...


----------



## MOONDROP

syazwaned said:


> Will there be a new iteration or improvement over Chaconne? About to order it but afraid @MOONDROP will release a new totl earbuds


No… I don’t know why they put a name chaconne 2 there. We only have one product under this name and not planning to release any MKII yet.


----------



## Chessnaudio

MOONDROP said:


> No… I don’t know why they put a name chaconne 2 there. We only have one product under this name and not planning to release any MKII yet.


Can you tell us why? With slight improvement in bass response and extension the Chaconne successor would be the undisputed king of earbuds. I know you guys have been hitting homeruns with your iems lately, but us earbud folk are a passionate bunch! I would unhesitantly shell out the money for a new and improved Chaconne.


----------



## Star Ace

It's a niche market. A removable cable would be nice, but I *love* its sound-even the bass. It's just not boosted. But of course we all like different things. I see it as a neutral earphone, but without the usual jump in upper mids. Still these mids are not recessed, so everything sounds natural. It's a wonderful tonality-balanced, and incredibly detailed and clear.

They are not bass heavy-my only caveat. Otherwise an easy recommendation, in my opinion.


----------



## MOONDROP

Chessnaudio said:


> Can you tell us why? With slight improvement in bass response and extension the Chaconne successor would be the undisputed king of earbuds. I know you guys have been hitting homeruns with your iems lately, but us earbud folk are a passionate bunch! I would unhesitantly shell out the money for a new and improved Chaconne.


One of the reason was a niche market, even in the small audiophile world anyway. But more importantly, we haven’t come up with a chance to spend time on it, as we were busy with TWS firmware updates and the full size electrostatic right now.


----------



## syazwaned

MOONDROP said:


> One of the reason was a niche market, even in the small audiophile world anyway. But more importantly, we haven’t come up with a chance to spend time on it, as we were busy with TWS firmware updates and the full size electrostatic right now.


Good to know friend. Whoa you are making electrostatic now


----------



## FranQL

foniak said:


> I havent checked this thread in a while. Is the LBBS still recomended as one of the top dogs? I was hesitant because the shape really weird.
> My previous earbuds were Yuin PK3 original one (the new one was reported to be worse) and the Nice HCK EB2, both really clear and crisp sound, good bass, epic soundstage if you ask me for a cheap plastic earbuds.



I would bet on Tingo TG38


----------



## rprodrigues

foniak said:


> I havent checked this thread in a while. Is the LBBS still recomended as one of the top dogs? I was hesitant because the shape really weird.
> My previous earbuds were Yuin PK3 original one (the new one was reported to be worse) and the Nice HCK EB2, both really clear and crisp sound, good bass, epic soundstage if you ask me for a cheap plastic earbuds.



For me, lbbs is better than EB2 (own both). 
I haven't tried the original PK3, but I do like Panda PK2s, which uses the same drivers, but can't beat lbbs.

LBBS is my suggestion.


----------



## bruh223

I am new to the earbud community and I am looking in to the Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0+ or the Iris 2.0s because I am looking for a good cheap earbud to use for listening to music and play competitive games like apex and Valorant. Anyone know which I should get or any other options?


----------



## furyossa (Dec 28, 2021)

bruh223 said:


> I am new to the earbud community and I am looking in to the Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0+ or the Iris 2.0s because I am looking for a good cheap earbud to use for listening to music and play competitive games like apex and Valorant. Anyone know which I should get or any other options?


Both. They are great but ... Let me explain like this ... both drivers are good, but not with stock tuning (glued horseshoe on the back of the driver)
They require some DIY work to sound great.


----------



## jogawag

bruh223 said:


> I am new to the earbud community and I am looking in to the Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0+ or the Iris 2.0s because I am looking for a good cheap earbud to use for listening to music and play competitive games like apex and Valorant. Anyone know which I should get or any other options?


Another option would be the even cheaper Iris Ancestor.


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> Another option would be the even cheaper Iris Ancestor.


I'm talking about Ancestor. First problem, transparent shell (go with opaque). Bad resonance and because they use strong glue to secure the connection between shell and driver cover, if you try to detach the driver you'll probably break the lip of the shell. 2nd issue is a bad way of tuning the driver. They cover half of the horseshoe black filter with glue, which block the back sound wave of the driver. This affect the mids mostly and some details in treble.
With very simple filters combo you can get 20-30% improvement which is very fascinating considering that this driver is worth probably $1.
I managed slightly better tonality than with Snow Lotus CE, probably because of advanced mod.
On the other hand, SL CE has 64ohm, better technicality and yes, is older driver but still one of the best 64ohm driver that I tried so far.
15.4mm DIY 64ohm full Ti and 14.8mm DIY 64ohm N55 have better specs but they sound worst. K's 64ohm is probably a step above SL CE.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Tin Hifi G2
https://hifigo.com/collections/new-arrival/products/tinhifi-g2-earbuds

....looks familiar?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001965197007.html


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> Tin Hifi G2
> https://hifigo.com/collections/new-arrival/products/tinhifi-g2-earbuds
> 
> ....looks familiar?
> ...



LOL!

Not surprised if the companies are OEMing around. FWIW, I remember reading bad reviews for the Xiao Fan earbud.


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> LOL!
> 
> Not surprised if the companies are OEMing around. FWIW, I remember reading bad reviews for the Xiao Fan earbud.


yeah, but the problem is...this is their FIRST bud...and it aint even their own....its very dissapointing for a brand like them to do this...


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> yeah, but the problem is...this is their FIRST bud...and it aint even their own....its very dissapointing for a brand like them to do this...



I guess Tin HIFI isn't a earbud company, so they probably do need to OEM for a start.

For example, when KBEAR first started out around 3 years ago, they used KZ to OEM for them (eg KBEAR KB10), then later they started churning out their own in-house stuff once they became more established. TRI (sister company of KBEAR) recently jumped into the DAP game, and they released the TRI TK2 which is supposedly an OEM of KAEI (which is a DAP company).


----------



## WoodyLuvr

baskingshark said:


> I guess Tin HIFI isn't a earbud company, so they probably do need to OEM for a start.
> 
> For example, when KBEAR first started out around 3 years ago, they used KZ to OEM for them (eg KBEAR KB10), then later they started churning out their own in-house stuff once they became more established. TRI (sister company of KBEAR) recently jumped into the DAP game, and they released the TRI TK2 which is supposedly an OEM of KAEI (which is a DAP company).


I think people would be really shocked how much this really happens especially in the Asian electronics market.


----------



## ian91 (Dec 29, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> I think people would be really shocked how much this really happens especially in the Asian electronics market.



And would probably also be shocked by the R&D cost for a proprietary DD/acoustic housing. Much lower initial risk.


----------



## gylyf (Dec 29, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> A substantial update to my earbuds *God-Tier List*
> 
> After a few recent posts and a number of PM requests I have finally added the *Newbsound 32pro* to the *God-Tier List* as a number of respected fellow earbud fanatics think & speak rather highly of them. I was initially hesitant to put on the list as I have not heard them yet but as I am familiar with most of the drivers that *@irv003* is using I thought it was time to add to the list as accordingly.


I received my 32pros a couple of days ago and while I'll be curious to see if and how the sound changes over time, I'm really enjoying them so far. Paired with my iFi XDSD Gryphon, the sound is warm and organic, perfect for late-night jazz listening. I find the bass present, but super controlled, so that it leaves room for everything else. I'm also impressed with the resolution of these tiny buds. And I'm finding the soundstage wider than it has any right to be. Since receiving them, I find myself reaching for these more than I do my over-ears at the moment. Finally, @irv003 was a pleasure to deal with.


----------



## KutuzovGambit

bruh223 said:


> I am new to the earbud community and I am looking in to the Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0+ or the Iris 2.0s because I am looking for a good cheap earbud to use for listening to music and play competitive games like apex and Valorant. Anyone know which I should get or any other options?


Qian39.


----------



## RikudouGoku

New Smabat?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003745548699.html


----------



## ValSuki

I tried purchasing a Yinman 600LE 2.0 but they seem to be done. Little upset.


----------



## agonynine

ValSuki said:


> I tried purchasing a Yinman 600LE 2.0 but they seem to be done. Little upset.


Was this ordering through AVCCK on AliExpress?


----------



## ValSuki

agonynine said:


> Was this ordering through AVCCK on AliExpress?


Yup, not sure where else to look for it thats available


----------



## agonynine

ValSuki said:


> Yup, not sure where else to look for it thats available


Yes, it does seem hard to come by. I ordered from them in March but they were unable to fulfil the order then and said production was discontinued, so I cancelled. They also tried to send me something else, but I asked for a cancellation.


----------



## ValSuki (Dec 29, 2021)

agonynine said:


> Yes, it does seem hard to come by. I ordered from them in March but they were unable to fulfil the order then and said production was discontinued, so I cancelled. They also tried to send me something else, but I asked for a cancellation.


Damn, then I'll most likely cancel these.

I'm just looking for a bud that's good for more critical listening to pair with my amp (its also an excuse to use my amp haha) and thought these were one. The search continues!


----------



## waynes world

gylyf said:


> I received my 32pros a couple of days ago and while I'll be curious to see if and how the sound changes over time, I'm really enjoying them so far. Paired with my iFi XDSD Gryphon, the sound is warm and organic, perfect for late-night jazz listening. I find the bass present, but super controlled, so that it leaves room for everything else. I'm also impressed with the resolution of these tiny buds. And I'm finding the soundstage wider than it has any right to be. Since receiving them, I find myself reaching for these more than I do my over-ears at the moment. Finally, @irv003 was a pleasure to deal with.



I received my newbsounds 3 songs ago. I usually resist commenting this quickly (new toy syndrome and all), but @irv003, I love whatever vodoo magic you've put into these things! They do have very wide soundstage and great imaging which tricks me into thinking I'm listening to open headphones. The resolution,  bass, timbre... everything is excellent. Well done!


----------



## thecannon7

RikudouGoku said:


> New Smabat?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003745548699.html


I'm not getting anything on the link.  Which model am I looking for and why the Smabat?  New to earbuds and recs seem to be all over the place.


----------



## RikudouGoku

thecannon7 said:


> I'm not getting anything on the link.  Which model am I looking for and why the Smabat?  New to earbuds and recs seem to be all over the place.













Just came out, so no one knows if its good or not.


Yincrow X6
Faaeal Iris 2.0
QianYun Qian39

K´s LBBS
Smabat M2S Pro

Moondrop Chaconne
Yincrow RW-2000

Those are my default recs for buds. (see my db for the rest.)


----------



## h810

TL;DR: A good enough driver these days + parametric EQ is more than enough.
I know that is an unpopular much debated opinion around here, but here is where I'm comming from
My journey into earbuds.
I got my hands on a set of Bang & Olufsen A8 (3i without controls) for $25. Build quality is rather good, and sound was ok. They are, however, amazing after EQ. A tweaked version of AutoEQ is what I ended up using. The highs are absolutely crisp, and there is low end on these. Like, I can get them to rumble if I crank up the 20Hz region, though I prefer to have it barely there. Since the highs are so controled, boosting the lows and highs, tames the shouty mids. I love them. I'm sad to think of the time when the crappy cable ends up breaking since its similar to the airline freebies. Might end up just modding them with replaceable cables.
Then I bought the edifier h180 on sale just to test another set. I loved what they were capable of doing right out of the box. I couldn't believe my ears. I was at this point so used to iems that the small added soundstage and airyness of a larger driver provided. Of course after EQ they sounded even better, but there was something about the build quality that had me coming back to the A8s.


I found a Thrift store that had a Bunch of really old cheap earbuds. and they were willing to let me test them out (untangle the bunch) first, before buying any of them.
There were 5 absolutely hideous - airline like earbuds which not even EQd sounded good, shrill and just awful.
However, I got my hands on Phillips SHS3300, the larger one, and after having tested the koss ksc75, the phillips is not even close, Even boosting the bass, they don't even come close to a good sounding pair of earbuds.
I found a set of rather obscure HTC s200 freebies, that actually sounded rather good. Very close to the apple earbuds/ h180s. So I thought if there is something about the mid to higher end of earbuds that makes them be so crisp. Are we in the point of technology where the $10 H180 can rival earbuds that are 100x the price?

I wanted to try the VE Monks, and the likes, but I think I will only find the same answer. The drivers on these are so good that EQ is capable of making them EQual. so that would be more like a side step than an upgrade.

I ended up giving the H180 away to my brother who owns sennheiser HD25 II and being them (h180) the first set of open earbuds he ever heard I was expecting him to not like them as he listens primarily to Electronic Tech House music (yeah, like, only one subgenre) but he tells me he was blown away at how crisp and delightful they were.

I know that the A8 is FAR from being TOTL GOD tier, but, without following the rabbit hole, I think it is capable of being just about where I feel like stopping for a while to enjoy music.

Nonetheless, I still want to explore the higher end. I have found the ATH CM2000TI to be absolutely gorgeous, even if the review here isn't so great. I'm glad however I moved away from IEMs, music is much more enjoyable now.


----------



## tgx78

Qian39 came in and it sounds smooooth.
Very natural sounding, but not as dynamic nor detailed as more expensive 32Pro.
QC is questionable as 2 out 3 Qian39 that I ordered came DOA.


----------



## RikudouGoku

tgx78 said:


> Qian39 came in and it sounds smooooth.
> Very natural sounding, but not as dynamic nor detailed as more expensive 32Pro.
> QC is questionable as 2 out 3 Qian39 that I ordered came DOA.


Damn, sorry to hear that. Did they refund you for those dead units?


----------



## tgx78

RikudouGoku said:


> Damn, sorry to hear that. Did they refund you for those dead units?


Oh I just got them 1 hour ago lol. I will probably order 3 more. This sounds very pleasing.
Super comfortable as well. Nice rec!


----------



## Alex.Grimm

RikudouGoku said:


> Tin Hifi G2
> https://hifigo.com/collections/new-arrival/products/tinhifi-g2-earbuds
> 
> ....looks familiar?
> ...


As I remember so shudder.  Spent money in nowhere. Sounded like a broken radio, perhaps a marriage was caught or they sound so bad


----------



## baskingshark

Alex.Grimm said:


> As I remember so shudder.  Spent money in nowhere. Sounded like a broken radio, perhaps a marriage was caught or they sound so bad





RikudouGoku said:


> Tin Hifi G2
> https://hifigo.com/collections/new-arrival/products/tinhifi-g2-earbuds
> 
> ....looks familiar?
> ...



Haha if this earbud is made by Xiaofan, they are well known for selling kilobuck cables.
The cables are so expensive that they must put it in a locked hard briefcase, in case anyone tries to steal the golden ears from you!












$59 USD for their earbud is very cheap in relative terms hahaha.


----------



## thecannon7

RikudouGoku said:


> Just came out, so no one knows if its good or not.
> 
> 
> Yincrow X6
> ...


Grabbed a pair of the LBBS. Thanks!


----------



## FranQL (Dec 31, 2021)

I will buy two of these cables to have a backup, you never know what can happen. You have to take advantage of the offer, it has a coupon of $ 2.5


----------



## ValSuki

Newbsounds being sent to the UK! Bought a pair of BBB a few days ago and I'm excited!


----------



## Acuno

Qian39's came in today. Very pleasant tuning, sound like a warmer, less-detailed mini-HD650. Smooth, natural midrange. I normally have trouble with shells but these are quite comfortable to wear. Tuning/fit are great for passive listening.

Decent pickup, thanks for the rec @RikudouGoku


----------



## bruh223

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32889629399.html

Would there be a difference when getting the standard 3.5mm instead of the 2.5mm?


----------



## InvisibleInk

bruh223 said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32889629399.html
> 
> Would there be a difference when getting the standard 3.5mm instead of the 2.5mm?


I always get 2.5mm cable terminations. If my source is single-ended I have adapters to 3.5mm. If the source has 4.4mm, I have an adapter for that, too. Two point five milometers is a nice medium. Only drawback is the connectors are easily damaged by accident.


----------



## Sam L

Seems the qian 39 has been mentioned lately and rightly so, great earbuds.

Here's some eq files I made just about a year ago with the autoeq project.

Currently, I use the wavelet file at 50% eq strength.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbud-target-curve-tests.944006/page-13#post-16042495


----------



## syazwaned

Is anyone doing their earbuds round up for 2021? Want to know your opinion


----------



## RikudouGoku

QianYun Qian39: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/qianyun-qian39.21879/reviews#review-27614

(already ranked it before but Rank: S)

Get it ASAP, its possibly discontinued so stock might not last.


----------



## Sam L (Jan 2, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> QianYun Qian39: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/qianyun-qian39.21879/reviews#review-27614
> 
> (already ranked it before but Rank: S)
> 
> Get it ASAP, its possibly discontinued so stock might not last.


what?!? thanks for the heads up and thanks for posting your review. I missed that one somehow. I'm going to snap up a couple more if there's still stock. For those that struggle with comfort, these are a winner. They are low profile (easy to sleep with) and are one of my most comfortable earbuds. Incidentally, the shell is pretty much identical to the monk lites. not sure who copied who...

edit: my immediate reaction to your S rank was, "umm that might a stretch." Then I read through your review and thought to myself, "yeah, that's true... so is that... timbre is phenomenal for $6, tonality is nice... hmm yeah that's true." and at the end of the review i'm thinking, "huh, ok, sure S rank, well ok maybe S-"

great review as always


----------



## Sam L (Jan 2, 2022)

*Are there any Maria 2 owners out there using wavelet or soundsource on mac?*

Yesterday evening was Dvorak concerto night. There were some recordings I wanted to give a good listen to that I've put off for months:

Janine Jansen's Dvorak Violin Concerto (DVC). Dunno why I never really gave this rendition a chance in the past.
Midori's DVC. main reason why I never really sought out another DVC recording. Midori's version is well recorded and her playing is phenomenal. Let me insert here that I caught one of her recitals at UC Berkeley's Zellerbach hall ages ago and left a different person. The only other experience I had like that was catching Nathan Milstein's last performance before he died (his playing was far from well executed but everyone in that hall felt like they were watching a historical performance.)
Jacqueline Du Pre's Dvorak Cello Concerto.  Not a well recorded piece to evaluate equipment but decent considering the age of the recording. The opening entrance of the solo cello is one of the most unique passages in the entire cello repertoire, I think.
I wanted to use my Maria 2's for this session and only lasted to the close of the the first movement of Midori's DVC. The Maria's are way too fatiguing and finished out the rest of the listening session with the Qian39's wavelet eq'd to 43%.

*The reason for my question*: I've avoided re-setting up my measurement rig because I've since upgraded my laptop(s) and the process of making all the pieces behave well is painstaking (calibrating everything, swapping various dacs for comparison, making sure the entire audio path isn't introducing anomalies, getting things correctly updated for autoeq to work, etc.). I would also need to explore moving everything from pc to mac or keeping a stable rig on one of my pc's.... more work.

I need some additional motivation to do all this since my work has me still pushing 12-17 hour days, 7 days a week. 
A couple Maria 2 / wavelets users might do the trick. Or a really disappointing moondrop chaconne experience will likely do it too. (that one should be here next week sometime.)

Edit: Ms. Jansen's version is only avail on youtube. 

For fans of the violin, Hilary Hahn recently played the Dvorak, this past month Dec. 9th and 11th. I'll give this a serious listen sometime this week.


@tgx78


----------



## povidlo

Sam L said:


> I wanted to use my Maria 2's for this session and only lasted to the close of the the first movement of Midori's DVC. The Maria's are way too fatiguing and finished out the rest of the listening session with the Qian39's wavelet eq'd to 43%.


Have you tried Maria 2 out of your NW-A105? 

For longer sessions, I have been listening to Maria 1 out of A105 directly with no EQ. A105 gives Maria 1 low mids warmth, narrows the wide stage a bit and smoothes out treble to make her sound less fatiguing.


----------



## regulator

Is there any meaningful tuning difference between vido and x6? They share the driver and shells look similar too


----------



## Star Ace

To be honest, as a violinist I cannot see how even a bright earphone may sound fatiguing with this particular great work. Has to be ultra bright. It is very subjective what "fatiguing" is for every listener in the end. For me it would be an incredible emphasis on upper mids and lower treble. Mid to high treble does not fatigue me, unless it is extreme mid treble (few cases of that, depends on the recording.)

For me, less treble is not always the best answer. Usually fatigue is inherent in the recording. I have the Midori but just do not remember how it was recorded and would need to listen to it again (I do not have Ms. Jansen's version.)

Why was the Moondrop Chaconne disappointing for the Dvorak violin concerto? I admit I did not understand what you meant. I own it, and am curious about what you intended to state.

Be well, do not worry about disagreeing. Enjoy your music.


----------



## FranQL

regulator said:


> Is there any meaningful tuning difference between vido and x6? They share the driver and shells look similar too



you buy the same ... but x6 times more expensive


----------



## Sam L (Jan 2, 2022)

Star Ace said:


> To be honest, as a violinist I cannot see how even a bright earphone may sound fatiguing with this particular great work. Has to be ultra bright.


the Maria 2 is ultra bright as in nothing in the earbud world comes close, off the charts bright. I'll get it measured one of these days. Another contributer to the fatigue is a really aggressive pinna gain, which on an earphone cannot mimic what we see in iems -- ie. Harman pinna gain is already a bit much for many people in iems. My first few earbud target curves borrowed from Harman target and I learned quickly it's a no go for earbuds.



Star Ace said:


> Why was the Moondrop Chaconne disappointing for the Dvorak violin concerto? I admit I did not understand what you meant. I own it, and am curious about what you intended to state.


Don't have the chaconne yet. I meant that if I ended up disappointed in any way, that would motivate me to break out my measuring rig and build compensation files.


----------



## Sam L

Star Ace said:


> To be honest, as a violinist I cannot see how even a bright earphone may sound fatiguing with this particular great work. Has to be ultra bright. It is very subjective what "fatiguing" is for every listener in the end. For me it would be an incredible emphasis on upper mids and lower treble. Mid to high treble does not fatigue me, unless it is extreme mid treble (few cases of that, depends on the recording.)
> 
> For me, less treble is not always the best answer. Usually fatigue is inherent in the recording. I have the Midori but just do not remember how it was recorded and would need to listen to it again (I do not have Ms. Jansen's version.)
> 
> ...


Maybe annoying would be more accurate than fatiguing in regards to my observations. For example with the lz a7 red filter most every note on the E string beyond 3rd position sounds unnaturally shrill. Nitpicking, I know and I'm not really a nitpicky listener -- it's only with violin pieces since I played the instrument, majored music in college and played in orchestras for 10+ years. Can't help it.


----------



## tgx78

Sam L said:


> *Are there any Maria 2 owners out there using wavelet or soundsource on mac?*
> 
> Yesterday evening was Dvorak concerto night. There were some recordings I wanted to give a good listen to that I've put off for months:
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing the Dvorak’s violin concerto which is one my favorites. Tempo seems slightly reserved here, but as always HH plays it with such impeccable control and cleanliness that I can’t help but drawn to its reading deeply. She looks like a badass assassin here with that black mask on 😂


----------



## baskingshark (Jan 2, 2022)

regulator said:


> Is there any meaningful tuning difference between vido and x6? They share the driver and shells look similar too



They are quite different. The X6 has more textured bass with a deeper subbass extension, and has smoother highs/upper mids.

Vidos seem to have some unit variation or at least differences across the different coloured Vidos, so I have a few Vidos that sound different from each other.


----------



## rkw

Sam L said:


> Yesterday evening was Dvorak concerto night. There were some recordings I wanted to give a good listen to that I've put off for months


You may be interested in David Hurwitz's survey of Dvorak Violin Concerto recordings



Sam L said:


> For fans of the violin, Hilary Hahn recently played the Dvorak



Don't miss her Sarasate Carmen Fantasy with the same orchestra and conductor. Hahn's performances have often been very precise and technical. In more recent concert performances, I think she has been showing a more flexible and expressive style.


----------



## Star Ace

Sam L said:


> Maybe annoying would be more accurate than fatiguing in regards to my observations. For example with the lz a7 red filter most every note on the E string beyond 3rd position sounds unnaturally shrill. Nitpicking, I know and I'm not really a nitpicky listener -- it's only with violin pieces since I played the instrument, majored music in college and played in orchestras for 10+ years. Can't help it.


Sam L,

I think you may appreciate the Chaconne, as the upper mids are not overly emphasized, nor too recessed to over-correct over-emphasis.
Reviewers in this thread find it neutral-warm, but I find it "true neutral" (no relation to D&D.) It is only warm in relation to earphones emphasizing the upper mids as you indicate. Using them (Chaconne) right now, they are always a treat no matter what I use them for.
But who knows, you may find their treble extension a bit much (doubt it, but it seems you may be overly sensitive-or I am misreading you.)

(I do love bright steel Es, so perhaps we just hear things differently, or prefer opposite things. They should always have a core to the sound, mind you, but I do not like very warm Es as they tend to rob some brilliance from the other strings, which I do not prefer. Use medium Es and sometimes even weich because I like a bright E tone, even though I prefer gut strings in general for the lower strings.)

Seems that I will never try those Rose Technics Maria 2, as the price is even higher than the Chaconne! They better be good! Their treble emphasis intrigue me, but *not* at that price.

For me the Moondrop sound musical and neutral-very true to life, natural, open, airy, but without exaggerated sizzle. They are detailed, but not sizzling-hot. Extend absurdly well. Cymbals are so good, non distorted, and natural. One of my best earphones/headphones to be sure.


----------



## Sam L

baskingshark said:


> They are quite different. The X6 has more textured bass with a deeper subbass extension, and has smoother highs/upper mids.
> 
> Vidos seem to have some unit variation or at least differences across the different coloured Vidos, so I have a few Vidos that sound different from each other.


Agreed. Very different buds. The vidos sound more like monks than the x6.


----------



## Szymon The Crackhead

I have just received the Qian69 on December 31st... The last unit from AliExpress. No more available... Which is a shame. 

First impressions, the timbre on them is extremely pleasant and natural. They have a proper, old school, V-Shaped signature, which is extremely rare on buds. Sound great, though I would like the mids just a little bit less recessed. 

Will post a review next week, after I spend some more time with them, with comparisons to Qian39 and Yincrow X6. I can also compare to the Monk Plus if you guys want a solid laugh.


----------



## calcatreppola

Sam L said:


> *Are there any Maria 2 owners out there using wavelet or soundsource on mac?*
> 
> Yesterday evening was Dvorak concerto night. There were some recordings I wanted to give a good listen to that I've put off for months:
> I wanted to use my Maria 2's for this session and only lasted to the close of the the first movement of Midori's DVC. The Maria's are way too fatiguing and finished out the rest of the listening session with the Qian39's wavelet eq'd to 43%.
> ...




thank you for sharing. Very interesting points, both about buds and about music.

1) I would like to buy Maria II and would ask you: apart from this fatiguing listening (that I can't understand if it refers only to these concerts or to everything) is it really detailed and with a big soundstage as is said? Now I have ebx21 and a blur 189 mx150 hybrid, almost same detail retrieving, but the tonality of the ebx21 makes it a wonderful listening in all occasions. I only concede myself monk lite 120 ohms if I really want to listen without thinking. I listen a lot of harpsichord, which can compete with violin on some frequencies . [although I can listen to most musical genres... but what I really need to pay atttentiono to is classical music]. I really have difficultie to change earbud. So: do you think Maria II can be worth the try? (so is selling it here in europe at an almost decent price, if really good).

2) boy, if you equalize... have you ever thought to change the cable? a silver-plated can do something, I think. On mac there is a good product called Colibri that might help you. (I guess you don't have iPhone, where Neutron seems to be the king of equalizer). Or maybe you can give hibyblue a try, with its equalizer. I never dedicated much time to eq, I got enough satisfaction with cable... Now that you have been so specific about time requested, I will try with patience. Thsank you for this, too.


----------



## mwkzicwz

A few questions about Qian series:

1. How does Qian39 perform compared to Qian69? Is it worth the price difference? I've heard that Qian39 is more comfortable--can you elaborate on that? Which one would you choose if you were only to get one?

2. I heard about Qian25 limited edition. However, I can't seem to find a post about this one. Can you guys confirm?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 3, 2022)

povidlo said:


> For longer sessions, I have been listening to Maria 1 out of A105 directly with no EQ. A105 gives Maria 1 low mids warmth, narrows the wide stage a bit and smoothes out treble to make her sound less fatiguing.





Sam L said:


> the Maria 2 is ultra bright as in nothing in the earbud world comes close, off the charts bright. I'll get it measured one of these days. Another contributer to the fatigue is a really aggressive pinna gain, which on an earphone cannot mimic what we see in iems -- ie. Harman pinna gain is already a bit much for many people in iems. My first few earbud target curves borrowed from Harman target and I learned quickly it's a no go for earbuds.





Sam L said:


> Maybe annoying would be more accurate than fatiguing in regards to my observations. For example with the lz a7 red filter most every note on the E string beyond 3rd position sounds unnaturally shrill. Nitpicking, I know and I'm not really a nitpicky listener -- it's only with violin pieces since I played the instrument, majored music in college and played in orchestras for 10+ years. Can't help it.


Concur, the Maria II is quite bright (and aggressive) just like it's older sister Maria I... really a shame for those of us with treble sensitivity as their detail is amazing and their sparkle is truly magical. The only other earbuds in the same realm of brightness would be the Yincrow RW-1000/2000, PT2021, Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis, Blur Beautiful Witch, and perhaps the Audio-Technica ATH-CM2000Ti.



Star Ace said:


> To be honest, as a violinist I cannot see how even a bright earphone may sound fatiguing with this particular great work. Has to be ultra bright. It is very subjective what "fatiguing" is for every listener in the end. For me it would be an incredible emphasis on upper mids and lower treble. Mid to high treble does not fatigue me, unless it is extreme mid treble (few cases of that, depends on the recording.)
> 
> For me, less treble is not always the best answer. Usually fatigue is inherent in the recording. I have the Midori but just do not remember how it was recorded and would need to listen to it again (I do not have Ms. Jansen's version.)


Indeed, fatigue is different for everyone and can occur across the FR and is not delegated to just treble (higher frequencies). Too much bass which becomes too boomy; too forward which becomes too shouty or harsh; too aggressive which can be too thin and tinny (metallic sounding); too bright which can be too shrilly, sibilant, or harsh; too much detail can be too critical (analytical/clinical); too smooth can be too veiled; too laidback can come across too hollow and distant; etc. Any of which could possibly wear you out if listening for any length of time.

Also, very true in regards to fatigue being inherent in some recordings. This especially has been a serious problem since the loudness wars.



calcatreppola said:


> 1) I would like to buy Maria II and would ask you: apart from this fatiguing listening (that I can't understand if it refers only to these concerts or to everything) is it really detailed and with a big soundstage as is said? Now I have ebx21 and a blur 189 mx150 hybrid, almost same detail retrieving, but the tonality of the ebx21 makes it a wonderful listening in all occasions. I only concede


Superlative detail retrieval and yes, Maria I & II are as open and as wide as attested by many! And we are talking about top-tier full-size open headphones levels here... the only other earbud offering such wide or open staging would be the Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis. That said, Maria I & II are most definitely an acquired taste and only suitable for those who can stomach their bright nature (heavy high frequency extension); ultra-detail retrieval bordering on critical (an analytical-clinical signature that does not play well with poor recordings); and sibilant/glassy-like sparkly treble. It can not be stressed enough... Marias are completely unforgiving when it comes to poor recordings and/or critical prone music genres.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 3, 2022)

mwkzicwz said:


> A few questions about Qian series:
> 
> 1. How does Qian39 perform compared to Qian69? Is it worth the price difference? I've heard that Qian39 is more comfortable--can you elaborate on that? Which one would you choose if you were only to get one?
> 
> ...


Most on here would recommend the Qian69 over the Qian39 sound signature-wise (they be very close though)... but comfort-wise the Qian39 and it's shell cousin the VE Zen LL reign supreme (both are rightly nicknamed as "sleeping buds"). That said many would also recommend the Ks Bell-LBBs over either the Qian39 or Qian69 so there is that to also consider as well.

The Qian25 and Qian49 are not as good... lifeless, boring, and too flat... so I would recommend that you not waste your time with these mediocre models.


----------



## Szymon The Crackhead

mwkzicwz said:


> 1. How does Qian39 perform compared to Qian69? Is it worth the price difference? I've heard that Qian39 is more comfortable--can you elaborate on that? Which one would you choose if you were only to get one?



They are very different earphones. Qian39 is a bassy flat kind of tuning, with not much gain in the pinna area, which some people (including me), really love. It has very good technical performance for the price. 

Then there's the Qian69. It's a proper V-Shape (also lacking in pinna gain, unlike more "modern" V-Shaped sets)... And really good technical performance for its price as well.

I haven't fully reviewed or compared either, but my gut instinct is the 69 are better for walking about and listening to stuff like rap, pop, and EDM. A proper V-Shape with real sub bass extension puts them almost in IEM territory, so if you are a basshead and you hate IEMs, go for these for sure! The 39, on the other hand, I would probably take for more focused listening. They will also do great in pop, but also stuff like rock, classical, jazz... 

I would probably take the Yincrow X6 over both if I listened to metal 90% of the time (like I am recently hahaha). But both the Qians have better technical performance than the X6. 39 has great resolution, 69 has a lot more detail across the spectrum and really realistic timbre. 

As for the comfort, both are amazing. I wore the 69 yesterday for a full 9 hour gaming and streaming session while my HD600 pads were drying, and had no problems whatsoever. The 39 is smaller and lighter, so if you have dinky ears, might suit you better. For me, both stay in my ears securely, but I prefer the fit of the 69, as it's more substantial. Both are way comfier than any MX500 shell earbud like X6 or Monk+. 

Again, I will post a full comparison soon™. Idk how this forum works yet but I guess you could follow my profile or something?


----------



## Sam L

Moondrop Chaconne's came in early. Opened the packaged, grabbed the earphones and went out the door to run some errands and grab coffee. Before I get back home and look through documentation -- how on earth are you supposed to tell which side is which?


----------



## Star Ace

Sam L said:


> Moondrop Chaconne's came in early. Opened the packaged, grabbed the earphones and went out the door to run some errands and grab coffee. Before I get back home and look through documentation -- how on earth are you supposed to tell which side is which?


Left is the one with the indent/marking on the steel nozzle itself. I had the same issue, but quickly realized what was intended.

Hope you enjoy them! The Maria 2 sound interesting, but pricey, and I already have and am happy with the Chaconne.


----------



## Scuba Devils

Yeah I had to Google that when I got Chaconne!


----------



## chinmie

Sam L said:


> Moondrop Chaconne's came in early. Opened the packaged, grabbed the earphones and went out the door to run some errands and grab coffee. Before I get back home and look through documentation -- how on earth are you supposed to tell which side is which?



there should be a grooved ring/ indentation on one of them. if it's like their older earbuds, that would be the left side.. but to be sure you can test it using  chesky tracks or L/R channel check in youtube


----------



## Barndoor

I put some of my wife's nail polish on one side to help easily identify left from right on hard to see gear.


----------



## samandhi

Chessnaudio said:


> Can you tell us why? With slight improvement in bass response and extension the Chaconne successor would be the undisputed king of earbuds. I know you guys have been hitting homeruns with your iems lately, but us earbud folk are a passionate bunch! I would unhesitantly shell out the money for a new and improved Chaconne.


To me the Chaconne are like ANY TOTL buds/IEMs/headphones in that they have at least ONE shortcoming. In this case, it is the bass. I CAN live with it as is but adding some via EQ makes them just what you described (undisputed king of earbuds) IMO. 

I use Neutron player on a iBasso DX300, high gain, filter set to NOS. The EQ settings, which are a bastardized hybrid between PEQ and GEQ (which it seems you can do with Neutron), are as follows:

62Hz BW: 1 Gain: 8dB
73Hz Q:3 Gain: 6dB (Low Shelf)   
125Hz BW: 1 Gain: 4
Preamp dB: -8.6 (this should keep the AGP from kicking in on all but the most heavy bass songs). 

Trust me, I know what you're thinking, but this does sound really good with them!

Keep in mind that you need to have AGP (Auto Gain Protection) turned on for this to not sound crappy on SOME songs... On heavier bass songs, it will hit a clipping point, but will only reduce the output gain rather than clip, so it still sounds very good. I know, I am too lazy to do subtractive EQing for this, but there you have it. Also, if you DO use Neutron, go into settings and make sure to set the AGP to per song, and the level slider to 0, so it will reset the AGP to normal after each song. 



Sam L said:


> *Are there any Maria 2 owners out there using wavelet or soundsource on mac?*
> 
> Yesterday evening was Dvorak concerto night. There were some recordings I wanted to give a good listen to that I've put off for months:
> 
> ...



I don't use Wavelet (at least not for the Maria II, only for my Senn HD700), but my problem with them is the pina gain area. I subtract about -4dB (or more if needs be) from 3k, and -2dB from 2k and they are still very close to being analytical, but with less pain. Though, I have to admit, I am not as sensitive to treble as long as there isn't and stridency, but am VERY sensitive to upper mids (which these seem to have in spades). I have found these to be very good buds after some modification in that area. Though, if you can ever find the time, I would not mind hearing/following your adventures with a rig on these. Also others mentioned cable swapping. Putting an OCC cable would tame it down a bit, and thicker or even double foams would also help. Or, putting rubber donuts on would help bring up the bass, which in turn would give the impression that the highs were lessened a bit. 

As to the Chaconne, as you can see from my answer above, I can't say too many things bad about them. I find the weight to be a small issue (though not deal-breaking for me), as well as the non-removable cable. Sound-wise, I am happy with the EQ that I have found. I truly think these sound better than most of the buds/IEMs/headphones I have ever listened to.



Star Ace said:


> Sam L,
> 
> I think you may appreciate the Chaconne, as the upper mids are not overly emphasized, nor too recessed to over-correct over-emphasis.
> Reviewers in this thread find it neutral-warm, but I find it "true neutral" (no relation to D&D.) It is only warm in relation to earphones emphasizing the upper mids as you indicate. Using them (Chaconne) right now, they are always a treat no matter what I use them for.
> ...


They are both Fantastic (as @WoodyLuvr would say, God tier), but if you enjoy the Chaconne, I don't really think the Maria II will add anything except maybe soundstage width. And even then, it is not a HUGE difference (they both have a very wide soundstage IMO). You DO get a detachable cable with the Maria II though, but both are not really meant for rough and tumble actions (one to too huge to stay in your ears, and the other is too heavy). However, I bought some ear hooks that clip on to them both that work fantastic, though I only use them on the Maria II. These hooks also work on the Chaconne but hold them too far out of my ears and I lose even more bass response. 

For those that like both of these buds, I can easily recommend the Yincrow 2000 as they are similar, but warmer, and fuller. Not as close to analytical, but still very clear. I would say they are more rounded across the whole spectrum, which does make them a bit different. This might be considered a slight contrast to those two I suppose, but also similar. I can't really describe it better. You would just have to listen to them IMO. Oh, and it's my belief that they come with one of the best cables I have seen for a pair of buds. 

P.S. To those that know me, sorry I've been away for so long. RL crap ya' know?! Anyhow, glad to see some of the same faces still here (and new ones too.. pretty exciting). 

P.P.S. I would also like to add another to @RikudouGoku's recommend list which is the Smabbat ST10S Gold (I actually find them to sound quite a bit better than the MS2 Pro, but still like them too), otherwise would agree with almost his whole list. Only reason I can't agree with the whole list is because I haven't heard them all yet...


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Szymon The Crackhead said:


> They are very different earphones. Qian39 is a bassy flat kind of tuning, with not much gain in the pinna area, which some people (including me), really love. It has very good technical performance for the price.
> 
> Then there's the Qian69. It's a proper V-Shape (also lacking in pinna gain, unlike more "modern" V-Shaped sets)... And really good technical performance for its price as well.
> 
> ...


Very nice comparison; well done. Look forward to reading your full review! Simply alert us with a quick post in this thread with a link when you have posted the review.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 4, 2022)

samandhi said:


> To me the Chaconne are like ANY TOTL buds/IEMs/headphones in that they have at least ONE shortcoming. In this case, it is the bass. I CAN live with it as is but adding some via EQ makes them just what you described (undisputed king of earbuds) IMO.
> 
> As to the Chaconne, as you can see from my answer above, I can't say too many things bad about them. I find the weight to be a small issue (though not deal-breaking for me), as well as the non-removable cable. Sound-wise, I am happy with the EQ that I have found. I truly think these sound better than most of the buds/IEMs/headphones I have ever listened to.


Very true. Thus why many of us consider the *Chaconne *to be a _specialty earbud, _a one or two trick pony, and not an _all-rounder_. They do not EQ as well as some other earbuds though (especially in the lower frequencies which is most likely due to their being a low impedance driver) which is a real shame. I found that even with light careful EQing of the *Chaconne* caused strange bass humps, boominess, loss of bass resolution, and/or muddy mids due to bass bleed. For some reason, more often than not, lower impedance drivers tend to not respond well to EQing and sometimes may not even play well with DSPs and/or scale well (more power)... though, there are indeed a few noteworthy low impedance earbuds (and drivers for that matter) out there that do respond beautifully to EQ'ing and power like the *Ks Bell-LBBs*. All said the *Chaconne* is a wonderful earbud if you understand it's strengths and many limitations both signature and fit wise.




samandhi said:


> They are both Fantastic (as @WoodyLuvr would say, God tier), but if you enjoy the Chaconne, I don't really think the Maria II will add anything except maybe soundstage width. And even then, it is not a HUGE difference (they both have a very wide soundstage IMO). You DO get a detachable cable with the Maria II though, but both are not really meant for rough and tumble actions (one to too huge to stay in your ears, and the other is too heavy). However, I bought some ear hooks that clip on to them both that work fantastic, though I only use them on the Maria II. These hooks also work on the Chaconne but hold them too far out of my ears and I lose even more bass response.


Similar to the *Chaconne*, *Maria II *are also a specialty bud (a one or two trick pony) and cater to very particular music genres and specific listening tastes. Though close to one another in the signature department they have some rather strong differences as well. *Maria I & II *are far more mid-centric (mid-forward); more bright (leaning hard to aggressive); tend to be super critical; and although bass light do offer more bass resolution (detail). Whereas, the *Chaconne* are warmer; flatter (naturally sharper due to their near neutral position); and much more forgiving of poor, lower quality recordings.

Might I offer that with some very complex, multi-layered, dynamic recordings *Maria II* would outshine the *Chaconne* in not only staging but also in overall resolution but in other recordings the* Chaconne *would reign supreme with sharper detail (uncritical response) and it's known fantastic sparkle.

Both, even the *Maria II* with it's two offered sizes, are plagued with fit issues for many people which does dramatically and drastically effects their signature and the overall listening experience... .




samandhi said:


> For those that like both of these buds, I can easily recommend the Yincrow 2000 as they are similar, but warmer, and fuller. Not as close to analytical, but still very clear. I would say they are more rounded across the whole spectrum, which does make them a bit different. This might be considered a slight contrast to those two I suppose, but also similar. I can't really describe it better. You would just have to listen to them IMO. Oh, and it's my belief that they come with one of the best cables I have seen for a pair of buds.


True, excellent cabling.

Though slightly warmer sounding the* Yincrow 2000* are still rather bright leaning... they are very detailed earbuds that can be quite fatiguing for some people due to their peak'iness and sometimes sibilant nature with certain music genres. Slightly more of an all-rounder in comparison to the _*Chaconne*_ or *Maria II *the *Yincrow RW-2000* offers an interestingly unique sparkle that is different than heard in the *Chaconne*.

Now with that said the *Yincrow RW-3000 *may have come to the rescue... based on initial early reviews it has corrected all of these issues... time will tell!




samandhi said:


> P.P.S. I would also like to add another to @RikudouGoku's recommend list which is the Smabbat ST10S Gold (I actually find them to sound quite a bit better than the MS2 Pro, but still like them too), otherwise would agree with almost his whole list. Only reason I can't agree with the whole list is because I haven't heard them all yet...


For nearly six months my* Smabat ST-10S Black-Gold 150Ω *stood proudly in my earbud stable as a strong favorite. Once I realized that was because I was strongly favoring their extraordinary sub-bass and overall deep bass and forgiving their peaky treble (@ 3K) and "off" timbre I moved on from them (gave them to a friend to dissect) and removed them from my God-Tier List. There was just something a little goofy (off) about the signature (something I have heard across the Svara-Smabat line) and the timbre was wonky to me as well. But again great sub-bass though nearing almost slam levels which is amazing for an earbud. It was also a finicky fit for me as well but no where as bad the awkward *Chaconne* or even *Maria II*.


----------



## syazwaned

WoodyLuvr said:


> Very true. Thus why many of us consider the *Chaconne *to be a _specialty earbud, _a one or two trick pony, and not an _all-rounder_. They do not EQ as well as some other earbuds though (especially in the lower frequencies which is most likely due to their being a low impedance driver) which is a real shame. I found that even with light careful EQing of the *Chaconne* caused strange bass humps, boominess, loss of bass resolution, and/or muddy mids due to bass bleed. For some reason, more often than not, lower impedance drivers tend to not respond well to EQing and sometimes may not even play well with DSPs and/or scale well (more power)... though, there are indeed a few noteworthy low impedance earbuds (and drivers for that matter) out there that do respond beautifully to EQ'ing and power like the *Ks Bell-LBBs*. All said the *Chaconne* is a wonderful earbud if you understand it's strengths and many limitations both signature and fit wise.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hurm, you make me wonder whether I should skip Chaconne in favor of Blur 189, the fit is very important to me and I could barely tolerate the Smabat m2s pro fitting, let alone big and heavy one like Chaconne.


----------



## Star Ace (Jan 4, 2022)

To be fair, the Chaconne are not that heavy-just relative to the super easy to fit, lightweight models, they are heavier-and larger-to be sure. I did have fit issues at the beginning but I also did not understand earbuds at the time, as I had rarely if ever used them before. Once you "know" their fit, they become "easy". I *think* their weight is part of the ultimate design, for better or worse, so if they were lighter they would not be the same Chaconne we know.

Earbuds may actually be impossible to gauge for other people, as the fit and resulting sound signature seems to be even more individual than with other earphones. Two different ear shapes may hear the exact same unit quite differently. Thus why I may have never heard the Chaconne as "warm" as most of you seem to do (it is not strident, but it certainly is not warm to my ears-their warmest tone was shoving them in too deeply, and hurting/making sore my large ears as a result.)

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong-after all, I have been using the Chaconne only for slightly over two months. Still love them very much, as they fit "everything" I listen to quite well.

Some cons after two months-the 3.5mm plug bent slightly (I do not remember pulling them by accident-just noticed one day about 3 weeks or so ago) and the gold plated brass shower-head section loses its lustre quite easily-just a few weeks after some use. It is not as "golden" anymore, and I never used them without foams (their sound signature is not right without a type of foam being used over the grills.) Sound is as good as ever.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 4, 2022)

Star Ace said:


> To be fair, the Chaconne are not that heavy-just relative to the super easy to fit, lightweight models, they are heavier-and larger-to be sure. I did have fit issues at the beginning but I also did not understand earbuds at the time, as I had rarely if ever used them before. Once you "know" their fit, they become "easy". I *think* their weight is part of the ultimate design, for better or worse, so if they were lighter they would not be the same Chaconne we know.


The issue is not so much the weight as you say. There are a few heavy metal shelled earbuds out there, some much heavier than the Chaconne. None though are slippery buggers like the Chaconne... well, besides the sleek Turandot that is! The real issue with the Chaconne is the imbalance and awkwardness of this said weight due to it's inherent design combined with the slipperiness of it's shell. Also, people's ears vary vastly and for some the Chaconne will never fit well no matter what they do even with the use of cement or glue!


Star Ace said:


> Earbuds may actually be impossible to gauge for other people, as the fit and resulting sound signature seems to be even more individual than with other earphones. Two different ear shapes may hear the exact same unit quite differently. Thus why I may have never heard the Chaconne as "warm" as most of you seem to do (it is not strident, but it certainly is not warm to my ears-their warmest tone was shoving them in too deeply, and hurting/making sore my large ears as a result.)


Totally concur! Earbud signatures are strongly effected by fit... adversely so when it is a bad fit.

To be clear when I stated that the Chaconne were warmer:


WoodyLuvr said:


> *Maria I & II *are far more mid-centric (mid-forward); more bright (leaning hard to aggressive); tend to be super critical; and although bass light do offer more bass resolution (detail). *Whereas, the Chaconne are warmer;* flatter (naturally sharper due to their near neutral position); and much more forgiving of poor, lower quality recordings.


*I meant that the Chaconne were/are warmer than the Maria I & II*. So for the sake of clarity I find that the Moondrop Chaconne, although indeed *warm-like*_,_ sits rather neutral with both bright (airy extended treble) and warm (smooth mids and highs) leanings. Slightly more bright leaning though due to it's airy primary signature.


Star Ace said:


> Feel free to correct me if I am wrong-after all, I have been using the Chaconne only for slightly over two months. Still love them very much, as they fit "everything" I listen to quite well.
> 
> Some cons after two months-the 3.5mm plug bent slightly (I do not remember pulling them by accident-just noticed one day about 3 weeks or so ago) and the gold plated brass shower-head section loses its lustre quite easily-just a few weeks after some use. It is not as "golden" anymore, and I never used them without foams (their sound signature is not right without a type of foam being used over the grills.) Sound is as good as ever.


No correction is in order good person. We be fellow earbud comrades (aka earbud fanatics) so all thoughtful opinions and experiences are ever most welcome here.

Yes, a few have reported this shell tarnishing, as well as the weak jack.

Agreed, many find that the Chaconne requires foams to tame their signature and for a better fit.


----------



## Sam L

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur, the Maria II is quite bright (and aggressive) just like it's older sister Maria I... really a shame for those of us with treble sensitivity as their detail is amazing and their sparkle is truly magical. The only other earbuds in the same realm of brightness would be the Yincrow RW-1000/2000, PT2021, Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis, Blur Beautiful Witch, and perhaps the Audio-Technica ATH-CM2000Ti.Mar


Good description -- bright and aggressive. I'm not so sure I would easily recommend the Maria II to earbud lovers because they are such a departure from most earbud lovers expect. In my opinion, 95% of the earbud fans tend toward warmer sound signatures. If someone were coming from the iem world and have a strong preference for heavy v-shaped sound, then the Maria II is their best option. But then if they stick with earbuds, they'll eventually realize that they like buds for the uniqueness they offer and understand the futility in chasing after a true "iem-like" sound with buds.

Thank you for the suggestions @WoodyLuvr , helpful as always.



WoodyLuvr said:


> Superlative detail retrieval and yes, Maria I & II are as open and as wide as attested by many! And we are talking about top-tier full-size open headphones levels here... the only other earbud offering such wide or open staging would be the Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis.


Re: sound stage, I don't have any top tier cans (I do most of my critical listening on the HD6xx and the closed version of the Aeon 2) but the Maria has a more open and wider soundstage than either of those cans. Actually, the Maria has a wider soundstage than all my headphones.



WoodyLuvr said:


> That said, Maria I & II are most definitely an acquired taste and only suitable for those who can stomach their bright nature (heavy high frequency extension); ultra-detail retrieval bordering on critical (an analytical-clinical signature that does not play well with poor recordings); and sibilant/glassy-like sparkly treble. It can not be stressed enough... Marias are completely unforgiving when it comes to poor recordings and/or critical prone music genres.


Fully agree, Maria's will ruin the listening experience with any poorly recorded music. I can't listen to any historical recordings with the Maria, completely unlistenable. 

Anyone considering the Maria II, be warned that these are really a specialty earbud. At least it is for me until I build a v1.5 compensation file for it. If I can get a break from work, the Maria II might motivate me towards making a v1.6 target.


----------



## numon (Jan 4, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur, the Maria II is quite bright (and aggressive) just like it's older sister Maria I... really a shame for those of us with treble sensitivity as their detail is amazing and their sparkle is truly magical. The only other earbuds in the same realm of brightness would be the Yincrow RW-1000/2000, PT2021, Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis, Blur Beautiful Witch, and perhaps the Audio-Technica ATH-CM2000Ti.
> 
> 
> Indeed, fatigue is different for everyone and can occur across the FR and is not delegated to just treble (higher frequencies). Too much bass which becomes too boomy; too forward which becomes too shouty or harsh; too aggressive which can be too thin and tinny (metallic sounding); too bright which can be too shrilly, sibilant, or harsh; too much detail can be too critical (analytical/clinical); too smooth can be too veiled; too laidback can come across too hollow and distant; etc. Any of which could possibly wear you out if listening for any length of time.
> ...


hi
 i asked clios for recommend for mojito  detailed earbud.he said s e nfr  pt2021  will be best choise instead smabat st10s gold earbud for clinical listening.can you give comparition between maria 2 and pt2021?especially  soundstage wideness(very wide or wide ) ?


----------



## Billyak

Man I've had my yincrow X6 in all day playing through my mojo/poly and it has been a blast.  I've been smitten with kLLBs and EBX21 the past couple of weeks but going back to the X6 gives a really satisfying mid bass that works quite well with electronic music.


----------



## FranQL

numon said:


> hi
> i asked clios for recommend for mojito  detailed earbud.he said s e nfr  pt2021  will be best choise instead smabat st10s gold earbud for clinical listening.can you give comparition between maria 2 and pt2021?especially  soundstage wideness(very wide or wide ) ?



one costs € 400 and another € 80 ...


----------



## calcatreppola

WoodyLuvr said:


> Similar to the *Chaconne*, *Maria II *are also a specialty bud (a one or two trick pony) and cater to very particular music genres and specific listening tastes. Though close to one another in the signature department they have some rather strong differences as well. *Maria I & II *are far more mid-centric (mid-forward); more bright (leaning hard to aggressive); tend to be super critical; and although bass light do offer more bass resolution (detail). Whereas, the *Chaconne* are warmer; flatter (naturally sharper due to their near neutral position); and much more forgiving of poor, lower quality recordings.
> 
> Might I offer that with some very complex, multi-layered, dynamic recordings *Maria II* would outshine the *Chaconne* in not only staging but also in overall resolution but in other recordings the* Chaconne *would reign supreme with sharper detail (uncritical response) and it's known fantastic sparkle.





Sam L said:


> Good description -- bright and aggressive. I'm not so sure I would easily recommend the Maria II to earbud lovers because they are such a departure from most earbud lovers expect. In my opinion, 95% of the earbud fans tend toward warmer sound signatures. If someone were coming from the iem world and have a strong preference for heavy v-shaped sound, then the Maria II is their best option. But then if they stick with earbuds, they'll eventually realize that they like buds for the uniqueness they offer and understand the futility in chasing after a true "iem-like" sound with buds.



ok... you are driving me crazy.... just because I am more and more mad for earbuds, and very attracted by Maria II.
Is it mid-centric or v-shaped?????
I do mainly critical listenings, especially of classic music and jazz. But I really enjoy a lot music by itself, too. until now I have k309 (not even seen in WoodyLuvr's lists), Monk lite, ebx21, blur 189 hybrid mx150. In most cases detail is everything for me. I like to hear the hautbois' or flute's keys, the simple but full harmony of harpsichord in the 5th brandeburg concert with all its quick notes, the subtle bells of The Necks' drummer, and to distinguish the organ and the timpani rolling at the beginning of also Sprach Zarathustra. But also all drummers' stroke in heavy metal while the singer sings... i think maria II can do something, especially because it seems I am not especially sensitive to highs. On the other hand if I need to relax I can use the monk lite, or even the ebx21 (with slightlly different scope). And more, I can change dac (I am using an opamp-rolled xd-05 bal and hiby w3s) ... 
Question is: if you write that it is mid-centric AND v-shaped either it is a magical earbud, or it is terrible... can you really compare it too rw2000, that costs one third?
sorry to insist, but now I imagine Maria II either like those people that attract you, and than chew you and spit out... or those people that you need to stay with, but will always cause disappointment, still you can't help and continue stay with them... 
can you distract me from buying them, or should I go deeper in the rabbit hole?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 5, 2022)

calcatreppola said:


> Is it mid-centric or v-shaped?????





calcatreppola said:


> Question is: if you write that it is mid-centric AND v-shaped either it is a magical earbud, or it is terrible... can you really compare it too rw2000, that costs one third?


I hope this chart will help more than it will confuse. Just know that we all hear a little differently and are all bias... favoring certain listening tastes and preferences over others and based on this bias we tend to emphasize certain tones more than others. Transducer signatures/characteristics can be stronger or weaker sounding to different ears, most especially opposing tertiary signatures. Primary and secondary signatures are much more prominent and well-defined whereas tertiary signatures, whether they be complimenting or opposing, can be much more ambiguous and/or difficult to detect.





_Primary_ = *Mid-Forward / Mid-Centric *(Aggressive Leaning)​_Secondary (Strong)_ = *Critical*​_Secondary (Weak)_ = *Hard-Harsh / Aggressive *(Upper Midrange)​_Tertiary (Complimenting) _= *Hard-Harsh / Bright* (Lower Treble; possibly _*W-Shaped*_ to some listeners)​_Tertiary (Opposing)_ = *None* (possibly an opposing _*V-Shaped*_ signature for some listeners)​_Listening Session_ = *Short* ***​_Pros _= *Open-Wide Staging; Ultra-Detailed; Well-Timbred; Reference-Like*​_Cons_ =* Fatiguing **​
**  I am extremely sensitive to harshness and sibilance in the upper midrange, lower treble, and mid treble areas, as well as overly critical signatures.*​
Maria I, and especially the Maria II, *primary signature* *(red shaded oval)* is "_mid-forward_" / "_mid-centric_" with a quite "_aggressive_" leaning. The Maria I & II offer a* strong secondary signature*_* (blue shaded balloon)* _that reaches out to "_critical_" and although ultra-detailed and resolute this may come across as being overly analytical-clinical to some listeners. The Maria I & II also show a *weak secondary signature*_* (blue shaded balloon)* _that reaches out to "_hard-harsh_" upper mids that may come across rather forward and aggressive. Sometimes *prominent and opposing tertiary signatures (green shaded arrows)* exhibited by Maria I & II are a tendency to reach out towards the "_hard-harsh_" lower treble area and the "_shrill & sibilant_" middle treble area with certain recordings and genres. Other possible* tertiary sound signatures (purple shaded arrows)* that people may hear may be "_W-Shaped_" due to their mid-forwardness in the upper midrange and even possibly "_V-Shaped_" which is quite understandable as I have found that their sometimes prominent highs can indeed overtake and recess the midrange with certain complex dynamic recordings.


----------



## samandhi

calcatreppola said:


> ok... you are driving me crazy.... just because I am more and more mad for earbuds, and very attracted by Maria II.
> Is it mid-centric or v-shaped?????
> I do mainly critical listenings, especially of classic music and jazz. But I really enjoy a lot music by itself, too. until now I have k309 (not even seen in WoodyLuvr's lists), Monk lite, ebx21, blur 189 hybrid mx150. In most cases detail is everything for me. I like to hear the hautbois' or flute's keys, the simple but full harmony of harpsichord in the 5th brandeburg concert with all its quick notes, the subtle bells of The Necks' drummer, and to distinguish the organ and the timpani rolling at the beginning of also Sprach Zarathustra. But also all drummers' stroke in heavy metal while the singer sings... i think maria II can do something, especially because it seems I am not especially sensitive to highs. On the other hand if I need to relax I can use the monk lite, or even the ebx21 (with slightlly different scope). And more, I can change dac (I am using an opamp-rolled xd-05 bal and hiby w3s) ...
> Question is: if you write that it is mid-centric AND v-shaped either it is a magical earbud, or it is terrible... can you really compare it too rw2000, that costs one third?
> ...


I own the Maria II and completely agree with @WoodyLuvr's post in answer. They are Very mid-centric/mid-forward (especially upper mid). With the right music they are indeed really some of the best but with the specific tuning they have, the list of what sounds really great is pretty short. If you have need of an absolute huge soundstage and separation (that I don't think sounds fake), then DO get the Maria II. There have been those that comment that they have a bigger/better soundstage than the famed HD800 (and others besides). You might have a god tier sound for you on some of the classical and light jazz stuff, but they will most likely hurt your ears with any sort of metal YMMV. 

But it is my opinion that the Chaconne are the very best for analog music (real instruments) like harpsichord, and bells, and flutes, and etc... But like the Maria II they aren't great for metal unless you add some EQ down low (though not in a painful way like the Maria II). 

As to the RW2000 (I own those also), they are less aggressive all around. They do still own the mid-forward signature (also in upper mids), but to a lesser degree. The treble for these, on the other hand, is actually warmer to my ears than the Maria II, which makes them a bit less revealing overall. Bass has much more quantity on the 2000 but has a bit less texture and speed. Overall, I find them to be placed second (for now) of my list of the best... 

It is my opinion that if you want something similar to the Maria II with less cost, you might consider the Dunu Alpha 1. They are almost as resolving, and overall have a very similar signature (a bit lesser soundstage), they are just less aggressive in the upper mids. Also, there is more quantity of bass on these. They are a 1 BA & 1 DD bud. Just my thoughts...


----------



## Charlyro222

Interest


samandhi said:


> I own the Maria II and completely agree with @WoodyLuvr's post in answer. They are Very mid-centric/mid-forward (especially upper mid). With the right music they are indeed really some of the best but with the specific tuning they have, the list of what sounds really great is pretty short. If you have need of an absolute huge soundstage and separation (that I don't think sounds fake), then DO get the Maria II. There have been those that comment that they have a bigger/better soundstage than the famed HD800 (and others besides). You might have a god tier sound for you on some of the classical and light jazz stuff, but they will most likely hurt your ears with any sort of metal YMMV.
> 
> But it is my opinion that the Chaconne are the very best for analog music (real instruments) like harpsichord, and bells, and flutes, and etc... But like the Maria II they aren't great for metal unless you add some EQ down low (though not in a painful way like the Maria II).
> 
> ...


Interesting bud Dunu Alpha 1. I didn't know hybrid earbuds exists


----------



## baskingshark

Charlyro222 said:


> Interest
> 
> Interesting bud Dunu Alpha 1. I didn't know hybrid earbuds exists



The new upcoming SMABAT ST20S Pro is supposedly a hybrid 1DD + 1 BA. I didn't crowdfund that one, as I think BAs in a earbud are gonna be extremely difficult to pull off, but have funded the non Pro version (ST20), which is a traditional single DD earbud.

Probably the added 1 BA will increase resolution and technical performance, but not sure about a BA's timbral accuracy or adding coherency/tonality issues.


----------



## FranQL

baskingshark said:


> The new upcoming SMABAT ST20S Pro is supposedly a hybrid 1DD + 1 BA. I didn't crowdfund that one, as I think BAs in a earbud are gonna be extremely difficult to pull off, but have funded the non Pro version (ST20), which is a traditional single DD earbud.
> 
> Probably the added 1 BA will increase resolution and technical performance, but not sure about a BA's timbral accuracy or adding coherency/tonality issues.



In the end, are you going to try ST20 or ST20 pro?


----------



## baskingshark

FranQL said:


> In the end, are you going to try ST20 or ST20 pro?



I bought the ST20. Didn't buy the ST20 Pro (hybrid with BA). Wonder if any of our friends here did though, would be interested in their impressions once they get it.


----------



## FranQL (Jan 5, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> I bought the ST20. Didn't buy the ST20 Pro (hybrid with BA). Wonder if any of our friends here did though, would be interested in their impressions once they get it.




I did the same, I do not know this new setting as it will be in ST20 (faceplate type airpod +diver LCP 50 Ohm), but for the Smabat 40 Ohm LCP driver I got a great sound.

The ST20Pro was too risky (exorbitant price), plus they described it as cold ...


----------



## calcatreppola

thank you very much to all, especially to @WoodyLuvr and @samandhi for their precious and detailed illustrations. I think I will try Maria II, as I found them at an almost reasonable price... Oh good rabbit! 
WoodyLuvr is absolutely correct (and Star Ace) – I think – when they pinpoint the inevitable differences in listening to earbuds (though I am not sure headphones are easier to describe...)
So I have to try... I will tell you


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 5, 2022)

numon said:


> hi
> i asked clios for recommend for mojito  detailed earbud.he said s e nfr  pt2021  will be best choise instead smabat st10s gold earbud for clinical listening.can you give comparition between maria 2 and pt2021?especially  soundstage wideness(very wide or wide ) ?


Indeed as *@ClieOS* has rightly recommended the PT2021 is phenomenal for critical reference listening especially in it's higher impedance versions @ 147Ω, 275Ω, and 365Ω (the lowest impedance 32Ω version is best avoided). The PT2021 is an ultra-detailed earbud with excellent resolution on the same level as the Rose Maria II.

The PT2021's primary signature is neutral (slightly bright leaning) and quite balanced with natural timbre. It offers a similar airiness to the Moondrop Chaconne just a tad lighter... perhaps more of a weaker, rather than stronger, secondary signature whereas the Chaconne has a strong primary airy signature. The bass on the PT2021 is detailed, controlled, and similar to both the Maria II and Chaconne... so it is bass light and not a bass lover's earbud. The PT2021's staging (head/soundstage) is excellent: open, deep, and wide... just not as wide or as open as the Maria II or the Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis but is probably a close third beating out the Chaconne by a hair in this regard. Though bright sounding the PT2021 is far less aggressive sounding than the Maria II which is due to it's neutral primary signature. With that said, the PT2021 does exhibit harsh treble peaks when airy sparkles turn nasty quick which can be quite fatiguing... most unfortunate especially for the treble sensitive.

In my humble opinion, the PT2021 like the Maria II, is much better sounding overall than the Smabat ST10S Black-Gold in all departments except for bass and thus why they sit on my God-Tier List.


----------



## numon

FranQL said:


> one costs € 400 and another € 80 ...


i  searching cloase as mojito


WoodyLuvr said:


> Indeed as *@ClieOS* has rightly recommended the PT2021 is phenomenal for critical reference listening especially in it's higher impedance versions @ 147Ω, 275Ω, and 365Ω (the lowest impedance 32Ω version is best avoided). The PT2021 is an ultra-detailed earbud with excellent resolution on the same level as the Rose Maria II.
> 
> The PT2021's primary signature is neutral (slightly bright leaning) and balanced with natural timbre. It offers a similar airiness to the Moondrop Chaconne just a tad lighter... perhaps more of a weaker, rather than stronger, secondary signature whereas the Chaconne has a strong primary airy signature. The bass on the PT2021 is detailed, controlled, and similar to both the Maria II and Chaconne... so it is bass light and not a bass lover's earbud. The PT2021's staging (head/soundstage) is excellent: open, deep, and wide... just not as wide or as open as the Maria II or the Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis but is probably a close third beating out the Chaconne by a hair in this regard. Though bright sounding sometimes the PT2021 is much less aggressive than the Maria II due to it's primary neutral signature... however, the PT2021 does exhibit harsh treble peaks when those airy sparkles turn nasty which can be quite fatiguing which is most unfortunate especially for the treble sensitive.
> 
> In my humble opinion, the PT2021 like the Maria II, is much better sounding overall than the Smabat ST10S Black-Gold in all departments except for bass and thus why they sit on my God-Tier List.


awesome infos, really thanks.i will buy pt2021 soon.
should  i  buy 365 ohm to get bestsound quality or 275 or 147 ohm sound same except 32 ohm?   asking for 365 ohm  need more power but if best sound is 365 ohm i will look for amp also.


----------



## FranQL

numon said:


> i  searching cloase as mojito
> 
> awesome infos, really thanks.i will buy pt2021 soon.
> should  i  buy 365 ohm to get bestsound quality or 275 or 147 ohm sound same except 32 ohm?   asking for 365 ohm  need more power but if best sound is 365 ohm i will look for amp also.


365 Ohm It is actually 500 Ohm, keep in mind, you will need a source for the best performance.


----------



## numon

FranQL said:


> 365 Ohm It is actually 500 Ohm, keep in mind, you will need a source for the best performance.


i asked seller,  he said they measured wrongly(about comments on ae saying same as you)


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 5, 2022)

numon said:


> i  searching cloase as mojito
> 
> awesome infos, really thanks.i will buy pt2021 soon.
> should  i  buy 365 ohm to get bestsound quality or 275 or 147 ohm sound same except 32 ohm?   asking for 365 ohm  need more power but if best sound is 365 ohm i will look for amp also.


All three high impedance versions are very, very similar to one another and all do require some power to shine.


----------



## numon

WoodyLuvr said:


> All three high impedance versions are very, very similar to one another and all do require some power to shine.


thanks .i have zishan z3  may be my can drive 365 ohm.   power of z3  is 150 mw  for 32 ohm.what do you think?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

numon said:


> thanks .i have zishan z3  may be my can drive 365 ohm.   power of z3  is 150 mw  for 32 ohm.what do you think?


Yes, that will do fine.


----------



## vygas

numon said:


> thanks .i have zishan z3  may be my can drive 365 ohm.   power of z3  is 150 mw  for 32 ohm.what do you think?


I have the "32ohm" PT2021 and I can run it just fine off of my LG G8X, but something like a Z3 should be able to handle the higher impedance versions.


----------



## FranQL (Jan 5, 2022)

vygas said:


> I have the "32ohm" PT2021 and I can run it just fine off of my LG G8X, but something like a Z3 should be able to handle the higher impedance versions.



32 Ohm , measures 32 ohms, or do you also have a faulty multimeter?


----------



## numon

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, that will do fine.


 thanks.
is pt2021   very wide level ( but narrower then maria 2 as you said)or  wide level.?my broken mojito has very wide soundstage . i hope i can get  similar  listening experince.


----------



## vygas

FranQL said:


> 32 Ohm , measures 32 ohms, or do you also have a faulty multimeter?


there's a reason I put the quotation marks on the "32ohm"


----------



## Sam L

FranQL said:


> 365 Ohm It is actually 500 Ohm, keep in mind, you will need a source for the best performance.


Wow 500 ohm. I'm tempted.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

numon said:


> thanks.
> is pt2021   very wide level ( but narrower then maria 2 as you said)or  wide level.?my broken mojito has very wide soundstage . i hope i can get  similar  listening experince.


I found that both Rose Technics Maria I & II staging were much more open (wider) and perhaps deeper (more layered) than the Rose Technology Mojito, Rose Technics Masya, or the Rose Technics Masya 2 aka "Masya Pro". The PT2021 staging would probably fall in between the Mojito and Maria I & II for openness but probably the same as the Mojito staging depth (layering) wise.


----------



## Szymon The Crackhead

WoodyLuvr said:


> Very nice comparison; well done. Look forward to reading your full review! Simply alert us with a quick post in this thread with a link when you have posted the review.


Will do for sure Woody! 

In the meantime, my LBBS arrived already, so... I will be doing a lot of #budlife for the next couple of weeks haha


----------



## Szymon The Crackhead

A question to y'alls with LBBS...

How the hell do you wear it?

I tried multiple fits, but it is either stable and sounds like crap, or it sounds great, but the tiniest amount of movement ruins the sound. 




This is how I have to wear it for it to sound best, but... I can't move my head... lmao


----------



## numon (Jan 6, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> I found that both Rose Technics Maria I & II staging were much more open (wider) and perhaps deeper (more layered) than the Rose Technology Mojito, Rose Technics Masya, or the Rose Technics Masya 2 aka "Masya Pro". The PT2021 staging would probably fall in between the Mojito and Maria I & II for openness but probably the same as the Mojito staging depth (layering) wise.


i had mojito and masya.  mojito soundstage was in sureley in very wide level but masya is normal wide level.wider soundstage then mojito  will  beat big headphones .
 for pt2021 are you sure soundstage is wider then mojito?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 6, 2022)

numon said:


> i had mojito and masya.  mojito soundstage was in sureley in very wide level but masya is normal wide level.wider soundstage then mojito  will  beat big headphones .
> for pt2021 are you sure soundstage is wider then mojito?


Agreed, Masya and Masya 2 are a step back from the Mojito in staging but they do offer an interesting resolution (clarity) in the midrange with airy treble (some may even argue that the slightly larger bass driver (16mm) in the Masyas provides better bass detail as well). And thus why the Maria I is considered the cumulation of both the Mojito and Masya 2 into one earbud.

Well, the PT2021 may not be as wide as the Mojito (not even close to the Maria I & II) but it is not far off and it is most definitely equal to the Mojito in staging depth (layering and presentation).

To my ears though, the PT2021 offers the better overall staging than the Mojito and is most definitely sufficiently wide & open. I believe this is due to it's primary signature being closer to neutral (less mid-forward/aggressive than the Mojito and especially the Maria I & II) which gives the PT2021 a more natural sounding timbre. Remember accurate timbre makes staging more realistic sounding, deeper (more layered), and giving one more of a "being there" presentation. Therefore probably why I find that the PT2021's staging sounds better (deeper and more open) than the Mojito with it's weaker timbre presentation.


----------



## numon

WoodyLuvr said:


> Agreed, Masya and Masya 2 are a step back from the Mojito in staging but they do offer an interesting resolution (clarity) in the midrange with airy treble (some may even argue that the slightly larger bass driver (16mm) in the Masyas provides better bass detail as well). And thus why the Maria I is considered the cumulation of both the Mojito and Masya 2 into one earbud.
> 
> Well, the PT2021 may not be as wide as the Mojito (not even close to the Maria I & II) but it is not far off and it is most definitely equal to the Mojito in staging depth (layering and presentation).
> 
> To my ears though, the PT2021 offers the better overall staging than the Mojito and is most definitely sufficiently wide & open. I believe this is due to it's primary signature being closer to neutral (less mid-forward/aggressive than the Mojito and especially the Maria I & II) which gives the PT2021 a more natural sounding timbre. Remember accurate timbre makes staging more realistic sounding, deeper (more layered), and giving one more of a "being there" presentation. Therefore probably why I find that the PT2021's staging sounds better (deeper and more open) than the Mojito with it's weaker timbre presentation.


thanks for detailed answer.


----------



## Chessnaudio

Well my Newbsound 32 pro arrived and just wow! First impressions the note weight and timbre are unreal


----------



## numon (Jan 6, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Agreed, Masya and Masya 2 are a step back from the Mojito in staging but they do offer an interesting resolution (clarity) in the midrange with airy treble (some may even argue that the slightly larger bass driver (16mm) in the Masyas provides better bass detail as well). And thus why the Maria I is considered the cumulation of both the Mojito and Masya 2 into one earbud.
> 
> Well, the PT2021 may not be as wide as the Mojito (not even close to the Maria I & II) but it is not far off and it is most definitely equal to the Mojito in staging depth (layering and presentation).
> 
> To my ears though, the PT2021 offers the better overall staging than the Mojito and is most definitely sufficiently wide & open. I believe this is due to it's primary signature being closer to neutral (less mid-forward/aggressive than the Mojito and especially the Maria I & II) which gives the PT2021 a more natural sounding timbre. Remember accurate timbre makes staging more realistic sounding, deeper (more layered), and giving one more of a "being there" presentation. Therefore probably why I find that the PT2021's staging sounds better (deeper and more open) than the Mojito with it's weaker timbre presentation.


sorry i have other  question  there was a lucky bag discount for ebx21 earbud .maybe later similar price will  be on sale  so i want to ask you which  one(pt2021 vs ebx21) will beat other in soundstage wideness ,detail,sepearation,can you give some comparions about ebx21 vs pt2021.


----------



## jogawag (Jan 8, 2022)

Szymon The Crackhead said:


> A question to y'alls with LBBS...
> 
> How the hell do you wear it?
> 
> I tried multiple fits, but it is either stable and sounds like crap, or it sounds great, but the tiniest amount of movement ruins the sound.



The LBBS can be fitted with a double form (donut form on full form) to fit the ear canal.





Alternatively, you can press the speaker side of the earphone against the ear bead to make it fit. (Sorry for the out of focus photo)


----------



## povidlo

600 ohm snow leopards.





https://a.aliexpress.com/_mPOp2dQ


----------



## Mhog55

Upgraded my dap from the Hiby R5 to a Shanling M6 Pro (akm version). I'm really shocked how much it improved the sound of my earbuds - K's LBB and Willsound mk2. 
Wanted to ask if anyone might have any recommendations for an earbud upgrade. Something that has a similar tonality to my current earbuds, but with better resolution, transparency, dynamics, and a larger stage. It's crazy that this thread has reached nearly 4000 pages!


----------



## baskingshark

povidlo said:


> 600 ohm snow leopards.
> 
> 
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mPOp2dQ



Thanks for the share, too bad the snow leopard black and white one is sold out!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jan 6, 2022)

Love the color of those earbuds (snow leopards). I wish they'd do that with budget iems.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Mhog55 said:


> It's crazy that this thread has reached nearly 4000 pages!


Imagine how many years of our lives that has been!

I've read whole 200 page threads myself.


----------



## artpiggo

Any new update on new Rose earbud. I haven't been a while but curious to know if any.


----------



## Sam L

artpiggo said:


> Any new update on new Rose earbud. I haven't been a while but curious to know if any.


are they releasing something soon? or are you referring to the Maria 2? If you're curious about the Maria 2, much as been written about it just recently in this thread.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Sam L said:


> are they releasing something soon? or are you referring to the Maria 2? If you're curious about the Maria 2, much as been written about it just recently in this thread.


He speaks of the two (2) models teased by Rose on their IG account:

_*Rose Technics Martini (32Ω)*_​_*Rose Technics Maxim Project (??Ω)*_​​We are all biting at the bit in anxious anticipation.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 7, 2022)

numon said:


> sorry i have other  question  there was a lucky bag discount for ebx21 earbud .maybe later similar price will  be on sale  so i want to ask you which  one(pt2021 vs ebx21) will beat other in soundstage wideness ,detail,sepearation,can you give some comparions about ebx21 vs pt2021.


I recently discussed and plotted the NiceHCK EBX21 signature in comparison to the Rose Technics Maria I & II (*here*).

Personally, I find the PT2021 offers better staging and perhaps the type of timbre and imaging that you are after, more than the EBX21, which is still a very good earbud in it's own right. I consider the EBX21 to be an excellent reference option for critical listening... that is if you can handle their bright cold analytical nature. I really liked the EBX21 but sadly it was way too fatiguing and gave me horrendous head/earaches. The PT2021 is far less offensive in these regards.

My recommendation would be to choose the PT2021 in any of it's higher impedances... neither I or ClieOs were able to discern any major difference between any of the higher impedance versions besides perhaps maybe a sliver of more bass extension offered by the ~147Ω model but that was questionable. All the higher impedances scale remarkably well and offer the very same signature which is astounding. One would be hard pressed to discern and identify (readily and repeatedly) the three (3) higher impedances. The PT2021 line is probably the only series of earbuds that I have ever heard that has successfully tuned the same signature across multiple different impedances. Remarkable to say the least!


----------



## Sam L (Jan 7, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> He speaks of the two (2) models teased by Rose on their IG account:
> 
> _*Rose Technics Martini (32Ω)*_​_*Rose Technics Maxim Project (??Ω)*_​​We are all biting at the bit in anxious anticipation.


ahh... thx for the info. I'm not sure I"m a fan of the Rose house sound, especially after listening to the Chaconne these last few days. I think the Chaconne sounds phenomenal out of the box, the tuning is perfect for my tastes... well actually I'd add a +2db bass shelf from around 75hz but that's about it. Moondrop did an awesome job with the Chaconne.


----------



## povidlo

WoodyLuvr said:


> He speaks of the two (2) models teased by Rose on their IG account:
> 
> _*Rose Technics Martini (32Ω)*_​_*Rose Technics Maxim Project (??Ω)*_​​We are all biting at the bit in anxious anticipation.


Martini looks great. Besides what appears to be a non-detachable cable.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rose-technology-discussion-impressions-thread.808952/post-16713641


----------



## forestitalia (Jan 7, 2022)

interessant


----------



## syazwaned

Thanks @WoodyLuvr & @Star Ace for your warm reply about the Chaconne fit.

I have recently listened to Moondrop Blessing2, and found the soundstage to be phenomenal! I love it, but the IEM factor make me reconsider whether I should buy it or not. I have tried Blur 266 pk32, but I found Moondrop Blessing2 soundstage to be wider and more directional compared to blur 266 pk32.

I will have the Chaconne in a month or so, lets hope it will have the similar soundstage as the Blessing2


----------



## Billyak

I'm not really a classical music lover but I am listening to Georg Solti's recording of Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen using my EBX21 stock and it is literally giving me goosebumps. These definitely excel at treble/soundstage focused recordings with plenty of dynamics.


----------



## samandhi

Sam L said:


> ahh... thx for the info. I'm not sure I"m a fan of the Rose house sound, especially after listening to the Chaconne these last few days. I think the Chaconne sounds phenomenal out of the box, the tuning is perfect for my tastes... well actually I'd add a +2db bass shelf from around 75hz but that's about it. Moondrop did an awesome job with the Chaconne.


I totally agree about the Chaconne. It's actually funny, because I wasn't even going to get the Chaconne. I wanted a different TOTL bud (can't remember which now), and I ended up getting the Chaconne as a hold-over while I waited to try and get the ones I wanted. It was on Amazon (US), and I could get it in 2 days while awaiting the potential 2 month shipment of the others. Long story longer, I never got the other ones from Korea, and never bothered to try again, because well..... they are the Chaconne.

If you've read my recent posts, I also add some bass down low, and in all honesty that makes them so much better as an all-rounder to me. I only wish it had a replaceable cable and weren't quit as heavy, but those are small niggles that I am willing to live with for the sound you get from them. 

On the other hand, I am seriously considering the Yincrow RW3000. If they are as, others have said thus far, better than the RW2000 without straying too far from the winning formula, then count me in. Those have been a fantastic bud with no changes needed, the best cable in the market (on a bud), and are some of the most comfy in my ears I have run across thus far. 

As for the Maria II, I have a love/hate relationship with those. They are absolutely fantastic for the right music listening experience, but they are so hot in the upper mid region, they get fatiguing quickly. My point is, that if they were cheaper they would be more of a great buy (being so niche) to me. Don't get me wrong, I won't part with them at this point because I DO have some music they sound great with. But, would I buy them again if I knew then what I know now? Not 100% sure, but maybe.


----------



## Star Ace

Would definitely consider something like Maria II at a lower price, as I have an idea of how it should sound like. But even the Chaconne I bought during the Black Friday holiday weekend, so it was not $320 (still almost $300 with tax.) Not saying it's bad-especially without trying it-but I lack the funds to purchase it even if it was great, and the Moondrop Chaconne is too good as it is.

Frankly I am not tempted by the well-received Blessing2 IEM, because the Chaconne is similarly priced-I do not equalize, but can tell it just sounds "different" in a good way, even compared to quite good headphones and IEMs.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Star Ace said:


> Frankly I am not tempted by the well-received Blessing2 IEM, because the Chaconne is similarly priced-I do not equalize, but can tell it just sounds "different" in a good way, even compared to quite good headphones and IEMs.


Chaconne wipes the floor with the B2, no need to get it.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Hey guys could I ask you to take a picture of your LBBS box if you have it?
So we can check the S/N number on them.

Because it seems that @Szymon The Crackhead got a unit from Jietu with the LBBS check mark but the cable is actually the LBB cable. @WoodyLuvr is currently investigating this with NiceHCK. But more data might be needed. 

here is my unit:


----------



## assassin10000

RikudouGoku said:


> Hey guys could I ask you to take a picture of your LBBS box if you have it?
> So we can check the S/N number on them.
> 
> Because it seems that @Szymon The Crackhead got a unit from Jietu with the LBBS check mark but the cable is actually the LBB cable. @WoodyLuvr is currently investigating this with NiceHCK. But more data might be needed.
> ...



My OG LBB on top, the 2020 white LBB (re-tune #1) below.


----------



## Charlyro222

RikudouGoku said:


> Hey guys could I ask you to take a picture of your LBBS box if you have it?
> So we can check the S/N number on them.
> 
> Because it seems that @Szymon The Crackhead got a unit from Jietu with the LBBS check mark but the cable is actually the LBB cable. @WoodyLuvr is currently investigating this with NiceHCK. But more data might be needed.
> ...


Will look for my box. Think must be in the storage room


----------



## jogawag (Jan 8, 2022)

A LBBS unit from Jietu.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jogawag said:


> A LBBS unit from Jietu.


No check mark?


----------



## jogawag (Jan 8, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> No check mark?


No check mark but the cable is actually the LBBS's.


----------



## lyvi

Hello,

I'm looking forward to get one of those earbuds: BGVP DX5, ISN Audio Rambo II, Hessian Ansata Pro, **** PT2021.

I would prefer a neutral sound signature with good separation and clear/vivid vocals. I mainly listen to rock, metal and some edm, although a little lack of bass should be fine.

I accept suggestions. Thank you. : )


----------



## Ronion

My wife put this box in the shed w/o my knowledge.  I thought she recycled it.  Pardon its battered appearance.


----------



## sunsun89

my Lbbs box. no check mark too, but i got sleeve one and rhodium plate.


----------



## Kamen555

RikudouGoku said:


> Hey guys could I ask you to take a picture of your LBBS box if you have it?
> So we can check the S/N number on them.
> 
> Because it seems that @Szymon The Crackhead got a unit from Jietu with the LBBS check mark but the cable is actually the LBB cable. @WoodyLuvr is currently investigating this with NiceHCK. But more data might be needed.
> ...


----------



## omerad

RikudouGoku said:


> Hey guys could I ask you to take a picture of your LBBS box if you have it?
> So we can check the S/N number on them.
> 
> Because it seems that @Szymon The Crackhead got a unit from Jietu with the LBBS check mark but the cable is actually the LBB cable. @WoodyLuvr is currently investigating this with NiceHCK. But more data might be needed.
> ...


Last month I received an LBBS marked box with SN 21072270 but the earbud inside was the regular LB with non-braided cable. I purchased it from K's Taobao store so when I contacted them they told me LBBS should be a braided cable and immediately replaced it for me. They also wanted to see the box label and said they had never seen this type of mixup before. So it appears there's a batch of mislabeled stock out there with distributors or resellers as well.


----------



## syazwaned

Star Ace said:


> Would definitely consider something like Maria II at a lower price, as I have an idea of how it should sound like. But even the Chaconne I bought during the Black Friday holiday weekend, so it was not $320 (still almost $300 with tax.) Not saying it's bad-especially without trying it-but I lack the funds to purchase it even if it was great, and the Moondrop Chaconne is too good as it is.
> 
> Frankly I am not tempted by the well-received Blessing2 IEM, because the Chaconne is similarly priced-I do not equalize, but can tell it just sounds "different" in a good way, even compared to quite good headphones and IEMs.





RikudouGoku said:


> Chaconne wipes the floor with the B2, no need to get it.



Nice! I really can't wait for my Chaconne to arrive!


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Chaconne wipes the floor with the B2, no need to get it.


Lol bold words there, especially when comparing two different formats... But I think Chaconne owners would agree.


----------



## Sam L

lyvi said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm looking forward to get one of those earbuds: BGVP DX5, ISN Audio Rambo II, Hessian Ansata Pro, **** PT2021.
> 
> ...


You can take the Rambo II off that list, definitely not neutral. It's a warm bud with a pronounced mid bass hump and relaxed upper mids and rolled off treble.


----------



## samandhi

Sam L said:


> Lol bold words there, especially when comparing two different formats... But I think Chaconne owners would agree.


I have heard both, and can totally agree; the Chaconne does indeed wipe the floor with them... They wipe the floor with MANY (including IEMs) handily. I'll just go on and say it (even if people call me crazy for it): the mids and treble in the Chaconne are the finest tuning I have ever heard in any headphone, IEM, earbud IMHO! Are they absolutely perfect? Maybe not, but they are the closest that I have ever heard. Having the recessed lower end does indeed make them "niche" unless you are willing to add some EQ and deal with any perceived consequences.

If the next generation/iteration improves that and makes them a bit more rounded, they will for sure be the best of the best out there!

P.S. All my opinion, and not proven to be factual at all.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

omerad said:


> Last month I received an LBBS marked box with SN 21072270 but the earbud inside was the regular LB with non-braided cable. I purchased it from K's Taobao store so when I contacted them they told me LBBS should be a braided cable and immediately replaced it for me. They also wanted to see the box label and said they had never seen this type of mixup before. So it appears there's a batch of mislabeled stock out there with distributors or resellers as well.


Thank you for sharing that. Cheers.


----------



## Con Par

Hello guys.Im looking forward to buying the airpods 3

Does anyone knows if the airpods 3 can take foam pads? like my trusty airpods 2 (down below on the picture)


----------



## lyvi

Sam L said:


> You can take the Rambo II off that list, definitely not neutral. It's a warm bud with a pronounced mid bass hump and relaxed upper mids and rolled off treble.


Sure. Thank you for your response.

I wll go for the pt2021 (147 Ohm) i guess.


----------



## RikudouGoku

omerad said:


> Last month I received an LBBS marked box with SN 21072270 but the earbud inside was the regular LB with non-braided cable. I purchased it from K's Taobao store so when I contacted them they told me LBBS should be a braided cable and immediately replaced it for me. They also wanted to see the box label and said they had never seen this type of mixup before. So it appears there's a batch of mislabeled stock out there with distributors or resellers as well.


Thank you for this information. 

So far, it seems like the issue lies in the batch "22XY" (last 4 numbers) specifically. So what I recommend at the moment for prospective buyers of the LBBS is to contact the store that you want to buy from and ask them to check the last 4 numbers, if it says 22XY then you should avoid them or ask for them to pick another unit without those numbers. 

But since this hypothesis is done with a very limited sample, I do suggest that you wait for the buyers from Nicehck to get their units first before we can make any more conclusions about it. (AND I COULD VERY WELL BE WRONG!)


----------



## FuzzyPotat

Any recommendations for earbuds with mic?


----------



## boredbuyingstuff (Jan 9, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> Thank you for this information.
> 
> So far, it seems like the issue lies in the batch "22XY" (last 4 numbers) specifically. So what I recommend at the moment for prospective buyers of the LBBS is to contact the store that you want to buy from and ask them to check the last 4 numbers, if it says 22XY then you should avoid them or ask for them to pick another unit without those numbers.
> 
> But since this hypothesis is done with a very limited sample, I do suggest that you wait for the buyers from Nicehck to get their units first before we can make any more conclusions about it. (AND I COULD VERY WELL BE WRONG!)



I got mine from NiceHCK on 11.11. Serial number K21072564.


----------



## FranQL (Jan 9, 2022)

Newcomer.... Pizen 150 Ohm


----------



## samandhi

So are we thinking that the Yincrow RW3000 are worth the huge upgrade in money over the RW2000? Or do we not have enough information on them as of yet? I was only able to find maybe 3 reviews on them thus far. While they DO indeed look like upgrades to the RW2000, I haven't found anything to suggest they are $150 of an upgrade. I'm not opposed to the cost by any means, I just don't want to spend that sort of bread if it is only a mild change, or sound just like the RW2000 with some mild EQ applied...

I may get them anyhow because I am too curious at this point to let it ride... LOL


----------



## samandhi

FranQL said:


> Newcomer.... Pizen 150 Ohm


Those look really nice. Any first impressions of sound?


----------



## Sam L

FuzzyPotat said:


> Any recommendations for earbuds with mic?


Don't? Seriously, earbuds in general are not going through rigorous quality checks (and they don't necessarily don't need to). An online mic will 9 times out of 10 cause some sort of channel imbalance. If you must, any cheap earbud with mic will do.


----------



## rkw

FuzzyPotat said:


> Any recommendations for earbuds with mic?


These have been discussed:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16147533
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-12466268
Some of the Monks have a mic option: https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel?eng_ApplianceLabelVo.eal_id=1
Ksearphone Bell-LB comes in a mic version: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983779232.html

For earbuds with detachable cable, you can buy separately a cable with mic.



Sam L said:


> An online mic will 9 times out of 10 cause some sort of channel imbalance.


How does that happen? The mic shares the ground but otherwise is on a separate connection. I've had a few earbuds and IEMs with mic and haven't noticed a channel imbalance.


----------



## FuzzyPotat

I never thought about detachable cables before. Thanks.


----------



## lyvi

Has someone tried the VE Monk plus MOE ?


----------



## Sam L

rkw said:


> These have been discussed:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16147533
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-12466268
> Some of the Monks have a mic option: https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel?eng_ApplianceLabelVo.eal_id=1
> ...


Well, actually the issue technically isn't channel imbalance in the sense of overall amplitude variation. Instead, I frequently see more pronounced deviation between channels when a mic is placed inline on one side. To be fair, both channels never match with mirror-like precision but it's typically far worse when you throw in a mic. One more thing, you might not notice the negative impact when listening casually but it will be easily seen when measured and in some cases, when the differences are really bad will just sound off.


----------



## syazwaned

*

*


Has anyone tried the Asura 3.0 fe?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Nov 3, 2022)

syazwaned said:


> Has anyone tried the Asura 3.0 fe?


Just heard the Asura 3.0FE (150Ω) and the Zen 2.0 SQL Limited (320Ω) not too long ago. The Asura line overall is very similar sounding to the Zen line when it comes to bass and the lower mid-range but has a few caveats and notable differences when comparing anything above the lower mids. Where the Zen is smooth, warm, and refined sounding the Asura is sharp, mid-centric (neither warm or bright but leaning towards neutral), and excited sounding. So they are very music genre dependent to say the least.


----------



## syazwaned

WoodyLuvr said:


> Just heard the Asura 3.0FE (150Ω) and the Zen 2.0 SQL Limited (320Ω) not too long ago. The Asura line overall is very similar sounding to the Zen line when it comes to bass and the lower mid-range but has a few caveats and notable differences when comparing anything above the lower mids. Where the Zen is smooth, warm, and refined sounding the Asura is sharp, mid-forward, and excited sounding. So they are very music genre dependent to say the least.


Thanks @WoodyLuvr . Does the technicalities and tonality is good enough to be included as a god tiear earbuds?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 10, 2022)

syazwaned said:


> Thanks @WoodyLuvr . Does the technicalities and tonality is good enough to be included as a god tiear earbuds?


No, though similar sounding I just didn't quite think it was at the same level as the Zen 2 nor was it at a level to highly recommend. It lacks refinement. Some people refer to it as being "wild!" which would be excellent for trap or heavy metal music perhaps. That all said it is still an excellent earbud especially for certain listening tastes and genres.


----------



## syazwaned

WoodyLuvr said:


> No, though similar sounding I just didn't quite think it was at the same level as the Zen 2 nor was it at a level to highly recommend. It lacks refinement. Some people refer to it as being "wild!" which would be excellent for trap or heavy metal music perhaps. That all said it is still an excellent earbud especially for certain listening tastes and genres.


Thanks @WoodyLuvr , appreciate your response 😍


----------



## Billyak

Just received my QianYun Qian39 today.  Not jumping to any conclusions but the key take away from me is a solid FR with a very open airy sound. 

On a completely separate and not related at all matter, does anyone else feel ashamed spending so much on IEMs when earbuds deliver so much for so cheap.


----------



## ian91

Billyak said:


> does anyone else feel ashamed spending so much on IEMs when earbuds deliver so much for so cheap.



Yes. Having said that, I find use cases for both. The sheer value that can be had with a good earbud is beyond reach.


----------



## furyossa

Billyak said:


> On a completely separate and not related at all matter, does anyone else feel ashamed spending so much on IEMs when earbuds deliver so much for so cheap.


Not really. For those who love the music and audio gear, this is not the problem. I agree, buds can sound very good, but there are some models which cost very expensive.
Also, another great advantage of earbuds is that there are a lot of good sounding DIY drivers that can provide a lot at a very reasonable price.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 10, 2022)

Billyak said:


> On a completely separate and not related at all matter, does anyone else feel ashamed spending so much on IEMs when earbuds deliver so much for so cheap.





ian91 said:


> Yes. Having said that, I find use cases for both. The sheer value that can be had with a good earbud is beyond reach.





furyossa said:


> Not really. For those who love the music and audio gear, this is not the problem. I agree, buds can sound very good, but there are some models which cost very expensive.
> Also, another great advantage of earbuds is that there are a lot of good sounding DIY drivers that can provide a lot at a very reasonable price.


True; there are indeed some rather expensive earbuds models out there and DIY is a very smart avenue to go if you have both the skills and the eyes & hands to do it. DIYing earbuds is also worlds easier than IEMs is most all regards. However, it must be strongly stressed that only a few of these high-tiered earbuds are expensive (relative to other transducer mediums) falling in the $500-700 neighborhood whereas quite a number of high-tiered IEMs are in the mid to high thousands!!! There is nearly no comparison there... even high-tiered full sized headphones are in the low thousands, again no comparison. So really earbuds are the one transducer medium that can offer a lot for your money if you are patient and spend wisely (easier said than done! I am proof! )

*Price-Performance Ratio I (excellent value for the money outside of pricey flagships)*​*Price-Performance Ratio II*_ *(collect multiple sound signatures and impedances for a modest outlay)*_​- from Woody's *Why Earbuds?* post​​


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> True; there are indeed some rather expensive earbuds models out there and DIY is a very smart avenue to go if you have both the skills and the eyes & hands to do it. DIYing earbuds is also worlds easier than IEMs is most all regards. However, it must be strongly stressed that only a few of these high-tiered earbuds are expensive (relative to other transducer mediums) falling in the $500-700 neighborhood whereas quite a number of high-tiered IEMs are in the mid to high thousands!!! There is nearly no comparison there... even high-tiered full sized headphones are in the low thousands, again no comparison. So really earbuds are the one transducer medium that can offer a lot for your money if you are patient and spend wisely (easier said than done! I am proof! )
> 
> *Price-Performance Ratio I (excellent value for the money outside of pricey flagships)*​*Price-Performance Ratio II*_ *(collect multiple sound signatures and impedances for a modest outlay)*_​- from Woody's *Why Earbuds?* post​​


Well said Mr W.


----------



## Star Ace

IEMs do have the obvious advantages, in many though definitely not all cases, of good to great isolation, depending on model. In addition to some possible fit issues, that is the one big con of earbuds, so I assume their relatively lack of mass audiophile popularity increases their value per dollar. They are relatively popular in a niche way, but not as hyped as IEMs (or headphones, for that matter.) So IEMs will most likely be more expensive even when the sound may not be as nice or in many cases, not nearly as natural sounding.

(Many IEMs have a specific tonal signature/"headstage" that sounds spacious, if not as open-airy as a great earbud. Still, lots of air can be found. They can have their own sound that is its own beast-for better or worse.)

I do love IEMs in general, as their conveniences cannot be denied. But the good sound of something like the Chaconne is hard to match, so despite their quite high price for earbuds, they really sound very good for those $320.00 when compared to the good or historically well-received headphones.

IEMs can also be more expensive than many good headphones at the mid to "high end" level. Some can be outrageously expensive for what you get. But to each their own money, or lack thereof in my case.


----------



## samandhi

Billyak said:


> Just received my QianYun Qian39 today.  Not jumping to any conclusions but the key take away from me is a solid FR with a very open airy sound.
> 
> On a completely separate and not related at all matter, does anyone else feel ashamed spending so much on IEMs when earbuds deliver so much for so cheap.





WoodyLuvr said:


> True; there are indeed some rather expensive earbuds models out there and DIY is a very smart avenue to go if you have both the skills and the eyes & hands to do it. DIYing earbuds is also worlds easier than IEMs is most all regards. However, it must be strongly stressed that only a few of these high-tiered earbuds are expensive (relative to other transducer mediums) falling in the $500-700 neighborhood whereas quite a number of high-tiered IEMs are in the mid to high thousands!!! There is nearly no comparison there... even high-tiered full sized headphones are in the low thousands, again no comparison. So really earbuds are the one transducer medium that can offer a lot for your money if you are patient and spend wisely (easier said than done! I am proof! )
> 
> *Price-Performance Ratio I (excellent value for the money outside of pricey flagships)*​*Price-Performance Ratio II*_ *(collect multiple sound signatures and impedances for a modest outlay)*_​- from Woody's *Why Earbuds?* post​​


I believe that there are some gems in IEMs that cost a fraction of what the top end cost. I don't believe that you need to spend thousands of dollars to get 95% of what the highest dollar product can get you. In comparison they are still more expensive than buds, but if you are a research hound you can come close. 

For instance, I have a pair of TinHifi P1 planar IEMs. To my ears these (for about $150) sound as good or better than $1k-2k IEMs. In a blind test I doubt most could pick out the higher dollar phones. Don't get me wrong, I also have a pair of iBasso IT07, and while I don't find them worth $1k overall, I think they are definitely very high end IEMs.

To me, from what I have found, normally the sweet spot for finding these gems is in the $300 range. That is when you start seeing potential "punch in at much higher than their price-tag" type of IEMs.  

To your question though, I don't think I would use the word ashamed when buying expensive IEMs compared to just-as-good (or better) buds. More like I feel like I have found a serious treasure when I find a pair of buds that are cheaper and as good or better than IEMs.


----------



## FranQL

WoodyLuvr said:


> True; there are indeed some rather expensive earbuds models out there and DIY is a very smart avenue to go if you have both the skills and the eyes & hands to do it. DIYing earbuds is also worlds easier than IEMs is most all regards. However, it must be strongly stressed that only a few of these high-tiered earbuds are expensive (relative to other transducer mediums) falling in the $500-700 neighborhood whereas quite a number of high-tiered IEMs are in the mid to high thousands!!! There is nearly no comparison there... even high-tiered full sized headphones are in the low thousands, again no comparison. So really earbuds are the one transducer medium that can offer a lot for your money if you are patient and spend wisely (easier said than done! I am proof! )
> 
> *Price-Performance Ratio I (excellent value for the money outside of pricey flagships)*​*Price-Performance Ratio II*_ *(collect multiple sound signatures and impedances for a modest outlay)*_​- from Woody's *Why Earbuds?* post​​



There is no going back, the buds are a treasure, without comparison possible.


----------



## Con Par

Con Par said:


> Hello guys.Im looking forward to buying the airpods 3
> 
> Does anyone knows if the airpods 3 can take foam pads? like my trusty airpods 2 (down below on the picture)


​Has anyone tried this???


----------



## Sam L

Billyak said:


> Just received my QianYun Qian39 today.  Not jumping to any conclusions but the key take away from me is a solid FR with a very open airy sound.
> 
> On a completely separate and not related at all matter, does anyone else feel ashamed spending so much on IEMs when earbuds deliver so much for so cheap.



Yep, I think many of us came to that conclusion quickly -- the performancerice ratio is insane with buds. I only just recently picked up a couple iems after more than a year of not being the slightest bit interested in new iems. Earbuds have kept me satisfied.


----------



## Charlyro222

Here is the serial numbre


RikudouGoku said:


> Hey guys could I ask you to take a picture of your LBBS box if you have it?
> So we can check the S/N number on them.
> 
> Because it seems that @Szymon The Crackhead got a unit from Jietu with the LBBS check mark but the cable is actually the LBB cable. @WoodyLuvr is currently investigating this with NiceHCK. But more data might be needed.
> ...


----------



## Charlyro222 (Jan 10, 2022)

Today just arrived my new VE Monks Lite 120 Ohms.

Just a quick listen before Burn in.

Perhaps too dark and warm for my tastes, but let´s wait a few days and listen again. No body knows.


----------



## Kavhat (Jan 10, 2022)

Hi everyone. First of all I want to say that i'm so happy to find this buds thread, finally the place I want to be.

I would like to receive some recommendation from you, since my audio knowledge is not the best, and can only talk about what I think its better (for me)
Currently I have an Edifier P180, and even if I really like the bassy sound it has, the wire is failing and I want to buy a new ones doing an upgrade if possible.
Today I tested my brother's Moondrop Aria (not a bud, but comparing the sound) and I didn't like the sound at all, the bass was really weak compared to my P180, so conservating that bassy sound, what would you recommend me?

Thank you so much!

Edit: Also, where do you buy this buds? Most of what I read here is shown only in Aliexpress and 30days of shipping. Are you using any other website?


----------



## calcatreppola

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Price-Performance Ratio I (excellent value for the money outside of pricey flagships)*​*Price-Performance Ratio II*_ *(collect multiple sound signatures and impedances for a modest outlay)*_​- from Woody's *Why Earbuds?* post​​


I think that with earbuds it is possible to get a reasonable small set up that offers quite a lot of satisfaction for a reasonable price. This is not always true with iem's and headphones, that mostly requires good (and expensive) gear to run, and after a certain point they simply offer a refinement that is audiophilee only, in that is worth the price only for those who have enough money. 
Earbuds' setup can be tried out for reasonable sums. And I would say that IEM's sound descriptions are more prone to great differences between users, than earbuds are. After a small practice it is easier to understand what people are saying about earbuds' effect, than about IEM's or headphones sensations.
With my gear I am pretty satisfied, in that I can now listen to many music (that I both like and dislike) with a lot of satisfaction, by switching between my two dac/amps (hiby w3 s and xd05 bal, although I decided to try some opamps on this, not a huge sum though) and my earbuds. Yes, I can chase better rendering and different sensations, but this will only lead me to excesses (that I would be prone to do, if only I had money). I have some items in a list for trying... But enjoying almost all my listenings, staring at nothing while concentrating on voives, timpans, organs, banjo, xylophones, breathes and tickling of oboe's keys or  the landing of the bow on a cello's strings is worth every single effort I put in getting my gear.
And thank you to this community, too...


----------



## Kamen555

Billyak said:


> On a completely separate and not related at all matter, does anyone else feel ashamed spending so much on IEMs when earbuds deliver so much for so cheap.


A little embarrassed that I didn't know about it, or dismissed them because they were earbuds, yeah. But Iems have their use-case too. I can't use most of my earbuds on the train and bus, but at home, or with the wife around, earbuds are ideal.


----------



## baskingshark

In terms of price to performance ratio, earbuds take the cake.

Case in point: Vido for $1 USD.

Even the ultra hyped cheap Sony MH755 IEM for $7 USD or so is still more expensive (and there are many fakes abounding out there).

Even TOTL earbuds are around $100 - 300, which is considered midFI pricing for IEMs, and TOTL IEMs easily cost 10 times more.


----------



## Sam L

Charlyro222 said:


> Today just arrived my new VE Monks Lite 120 Ohms.
> 
> Just a quick listen before Burn in.
> 
> Perhaps too dark and warm for my tastes, but let´s wait a few days and listen again. No body knows.


Yeah, it's not very good at stock tuning but the drivers eq really well. Here are some measurements with stock tuning vs one of my older target curves (v1.1). 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3314#post-15905008
V1.5 target is way better. I have some v1.5 compensation files somewhere here on head fi. Looking...


----------



## calcatreppola

Sam L said:


> Yeah, it's not very good at stock tuning but the drivers eq really well. Here are some measurements with stock tuning vs one of my older target curves (v1.1).
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3314#post-15905008
> V1.5 target is way better. I have some v1.5 compensation files somewhere here on head fi. Looking...


@Sam L may I ask you what da v1.1 / v1.5 stays for? ita a version of your own equlization? thx


----------



## Billyak

Billyak said:


> Just received my QianYun Qian39 today.  Not jumping to any conclusions but the key take away from me is a solid FR with a very open airy sound.
> 
> On a completely separate and not related at all matter, does anyone else feel ashamed spending so much on IEMs when earbuds deliver so much for so cheap.



One thing I have noticed is there seems to be some peaky resonances in the upper mids / highs that become apparent with female vocals.


----------



## Carrow

Man the Sennheiser MX985s and the VE Zen 2.0s are all I ever want to listen with these days. SO good. I think I'd be OK offloading most of my collection and keeping the custom Vidos I have. Potentially end of the road?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Carrow said:


> Man the Sennheiser MX985s and the VE Zen 2.0s are all I ever want to listen with these days. SO good. I think I'd be OK offloading most of my collection and keeping the custom Vidos I have. Potentially end of the road?


What year did you get your VE Zen 2.0?


----------



## Carrow

WoodyLuvr said:


> What year did you get your VE Zen 2.0?


Omega Edition might I add. This year.


----------



## RikudouGoku (Jan 11, 2022)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003788871058.html

...im feeling tempted....


----------



## Chessnaudio

RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003788871058.html
> 
> ...im feeling tempted....


Same. Definitely breaking the bank lol


----------



## Charlyro222

RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003788871058.html
> 
> ...im feeling tempted....


Here we go. Just ordered a Green one without mic.
Please, stop posting links.

😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## Carrow (Jan 11, 2022)

ABNormal Duotres back in stock at Rholupat! I'm massively slimming down my collection (peep the signature) but I've always wanted a pair of these!


----------



## rprodrigues

RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003788871058.html
> 
> ...im feeling tempted....




Well, well.... Ordered a black + mic....

Thank you for sharing.


----------



## waynes world

RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003788871058.html
> 
> ...im feeling tempted....



Are they gone? The link doesn't take me to them, and a search at NiceHCK store comes up empty as well!


----------



## jogawag (Jan 11, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003788871058.html
> 
> ...im feeling tempted....


Note the MoonDrop-style animated picture and the 15.4mm driver diameter!


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003788871058.html
> 
> ...im feeling tempted....



Are you tempted cause of the Waifu Anime babe, or cause of the earbuds?


----------



## baskingshark (Jan 11, 2022)

PSA Anyways for those who crowdfunded the Smabat ST20, there is some update on delivery/production here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/135840535288493/posts/256723239866888/


----------



## InvisibleInk

What do we thing about Tin HiFi jumping into the earbud game with their G2?


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> Are you tempted cause of the Waifu Anime babe, or cause of the earbuds?


Definitely the earbud, metal and LCP. What else could cause me to pull the trigger without review/impressions?


----------



## rprodrigues

RikudouGoku said:


> Definitely the earbud, metal and LCP. What else could cause me to pull the trigger without review/impressions?



It seems they will sound thin (LCP + metal shells), but let's see how all the holes (shells) were used to handle it (if they were)...


----------



## baskingshark

New lucky bag from NiceHCK for a earbud:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003788871058.html






Anyone tried the EB2? This seems to be a successor for it!


----------



## Asakurai (Jan 13, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> New lucky bag from NiceHCK for a earbud:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003788871058.html
> 
> ...



should be this one, since it mention Green and black colour, EB2 successor which the name in picture is EB2S


----------



## baskingshark

Asakurai said:


> should be this one, since it mention Green and black colour, EB2 successor which the name in picture is EB2S



Haha ok for the sake of anime waifu science, I will buy a set!


----------



## samandhi

RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003788871058.html
> 
> ...im feeling tempted....


Oh boy!


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> Haha ok for the sake of anime waifu science, I will buy a set!


Same here... Green w/out mic. Hell, I'll just say it then, I'll do it for the sake of the anime waifu..


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> New lucky bag from NiceHCK for a earbud:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003788871058.html
> 
> ...


Thats the new weeb bud, I ordered it along with the Smabat Svara.


----------



## n00b

baskingshark said:


> Anyone tried the EB2? This seems to be a successor for it!


i have the EB2, i forgot i had it since i didnt like it initially and put it away. the fit is really good, similar to LBBS/Bell Ti. bass seemed a bit boomy and overpowering, mids seemed thin, i think there is an upper mid peak and it is kinda harsh. soundstage and tech was whatever. i much prefer the ME80 to it. with that said i ordered the successor anyway cuz the fit was good and maybe they improved the sound too? it was only like $18


----------



## samandhi

n00b said:


> i have the EB2, i forgot i had it since i didnt like it initially and put it away. the fit is really good, similar to LBBS/Bell Ti. bass seemed a bit boomy and overpowering, mids seemed thin, i think there is an upper mid peak and it is kinda harsh. soundstage and tech was whatever. i much prefer the ME80 to it. with that said i ordered the successor anyway cuz the fit was good and maybe they improved the sound too? it was only like $18


Where the heck were you when I was forced gently prodded into buying them blindly? J/K...


----------



## InvisibleInk

baskingshark said:


> New lucky bag from NiceHCK for a earbud:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003788871058.html
> 
> ...


Purchased! Thanks bud!


----------



## Sam L

Does anyone use something like the Fiio utws3 with earbuds? I know mmcx or 2 pin buds are not common, but at least we have a few out there. I'm considering getting the fiio utws3 or something similar. Any suggestions as to which bluetooth adapter to get?


----------



## samandhi

Sam L said:


> Does anyone use something like the Fiio utws3 with earbuds? I know mmcx or 2 pin buds are not common, but at least we have a few out there. I'm considering getting the fiio utws3 or something similar. Any suggestions as to which bluetooth adapter to get?


@miserybeforethemusic used to have a couple BT adaptors, but I don't think he ever got around to getting the UTWS3. The UTWS3 is a bit cheaper, but the UTWS5 might have the features you want more. So that you can make the choice the UTWS5 is $129 on Aliexpress and the UTWS3 is $79 on Amazon. 

As to a rec, I haven't auditioned them myself, but there are polarizing comments on which BT adaptor is best, so it might come down to which has the best features for you. I dunno'.


----------



## waynes world

samandhi said:


> Where the heck were you when I was forced gently prodded into buying them blindly? J/K...



It's okay - you're not alone lol


----------



## ihaveears (Jan 13, 2022)

I need a bunch of disposable-priced earbuds for in-the-woods stuff. Instead of ordering a bunch of the same model, I may as well try out a bunch of different ones. If you were going to buy about 5 pairs of $10 or less earbuds what ones would you get?
I have spare parts to recable ones with bad cables too, so that's not a problem.


----------



## jogawag

ihaveears said:


> I need a bunch of disposable-priced earbuds for in-the-woods stuff. Instead of ordering a bunch of the same model, I may as well try out a bunch of different ones. If you were going to buy about 5 pairs of $10 or less earbuds what ones would you get?
> I have spare parts to recable ones with bad cables too, so that's not a problem.


Qian39, Vido, Traceless, Iris Ancestor, Ry4s MMCX Plus


----------



## ihaveears

jogawag said:


> Qian39, Vido, Traceless, Iris Ancestor, Ry4s MMCX Plus


Everyone always says ry4s sounds bad when I searched. The mmcx install looks cleaner than anything I could do myself. Would it be crazy to buy them for just for the shells to swap drivers with at the $4 they are right now on ali?


----------



## Barndoor (Jan 13, 2022)

2 new arrivals today. Vido and Qian39. Not listened to them yet.





My little collection is starting to grow. Gonna need another box soon.


----------



## jogawag

ihaveears said:


> Everyone always says ry4s sounds bad when I searched. The mmcx install looks cleaner than anything I could do myself. Would it be crazy to buy them for just for the shells to swap drivers with at the $4 they are right now on ali?


First and foremost, the bad sounding earbud in "Everyone always says ry4s sounds bad when I searched." Is Ry4s MMCX Normal (US $ 4.64), not Ry4s MMCX Plus (US $ 7.43) I showed. 

Next, I think that it is not crazy to buy them for just for the shells to swap drivers with at the $ 4 they are right now on ali.
That's because I've already done that with the N52 Blue Glue 32ohm drivers below.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33031053227.html


----------



## chinmie

Sam L said:


> Does anyone use something like the Fiio utws3 with earbuds? I know mmcx or 2 pin buds are not common, but at least we have a few out there. I'm considering getting the fiio utws3 or something similar. Any suggestions as to which bluetooth adapter to get?



I'm using BT20S Pro with my Svara L and Edifier H185 (mmcx modded) and wear them overears. no problem to this day. I also tried my mmcx Willsounds on it, and using it overears can (sorta) work, so does using it under like regular earbuds.
it will look weird though... unless you like this kind of aesthetics





ihaveears said:


> Everyone always says ry4s sounds bad when I searched. The mmcx install looks cleaner than anything I could do myself. Would it be crazy to buy them for just for the shells to swap drivers with at the $4 they are right now on ali?



i haven't heard the mmcx versions, but i tried their wired one years ago, and i think it's decently good sounding earbud


----------



## Barndoor

Initial impressions.
Qian39 is really comfortable for me, perhaps the most comfortable in my small collection so far. Really impressed with them out of the box. Elevated bass, but very well controlled. Doesn't have the bleed into the mids of other sets I have, so gives vocals a really good sense of space. I think I am really going to enjoy these.


----------



## baskingshark

samandhi said:


> Same here... Green w/out mic. Hell, I'll just say it then, I'll do it for the sake of the anime waifu..



I bought the green one without mic too. Not really a fan of mic cables as they may add resistance to that side, but more so they may be a source of failure down the line.

Look forward to your impressions!


----------



## FranQL

ihaveears said:


> I need a bunch of disposable-priced earbuds for in-the-woods stuff. Instead of ordering a bunch of the same model, I may as well try out a bunch of different ones. If you were going to buy about 5 pairs of $10 or less earbuds what ones would you get?
> I have spare parts to recable ones with bad cables too, so that's not a problem.




you can buy 5 shells, 5 cables, 5 different drivers, tuning material and make 5 buds with which I am sure you will be surprised ...


----------



## FranQL

You have at your disposal @Rary  DIY guide with the most popular drivers, you can do very interesting things and with very good SQ for very little money ... also if you already have the ability to weld, it is a great option


----------



## pevinkarker

I received the Qian39 today. do you recommend to use it with or without the foams?

Thanks for the help


----------



## WoodyLuvr

pevinkarker said:


> I received the Qian39 today. do you recommend to use it with or without the foams?
> 
> Thanks for the help


For me, with foams most definitely.


----------



## Charlyro222 (Jan 15, 2022)

Impresed with Qian39.
Really a great earbuds for the price just out of the Box.
Thank's @RikudouGoku for that link.
The batch with 10 units has been a bargain


----------



## RikudouGoku

Charlyro222 said:


> Impresed with Qian39.
> Really a great iem for the price just out of the Box.
> Thank's @RikudouGoku for that link.
> The batch with 10 units has been a bargain


Glad you like it. 

(EARBUDS! NOT IEMS)


----------



## foniak (Jan 14, 2022)

Whats the best sound you can get with a traditional shape? I just can't get into the tiny LBBS shell unfortunately.
Thoughts on FAAEAL Datura pro?
For reference, I really liked the EB2.


----------



## mochill

Newbsound 150pro , soon to be released 😁


----------



## jogawag

mochill said:


> Newbsound 150pro , soon to be released 😁


Do you know what bisoy uses for it's drivers?


----------



## mochill

jogawag said:


> Do you know what bisoy uses for it's drivers?


You gotta ask him , but so far everyone will definitely love it 🤫


----------



## Kamen555

Got a pair of Yincrow rw9. Really enjoying them. Different than the X6, but enjoyable none the less. 😋
Love the cable, n the pouch that comes with it.


----------



## jogawag (Jan 15, 2022)

foniak said:


> Whats the best sound you can get with a traditional shape? I just can't get into the tiny LBBS shell unfortunately.
> Thoughts on FAAEAL Datura pro?
> For reference, I really liked the EB2.


If you like a smaller (14.8mm driver) traditional shaped shell with great treble, the Shozy Cygnus is for you.
https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/shozy-cygnus.html

The FAAEAL Datura pro is not a traditional shaped shell and has a weak bass problem.


----------



## Kamen555

foniak said:


> Whats the best sound you can get with a traditional shape? I just can't get into the tiny LBBS shell unfortunately.
> Thoughts on FAAEAL Datura pro?
> For reference, I really liked the EB2.


Big fan of d datura pro. They're bigger than d LBBS n heavier so donno if that'll b an issue. But I enjoy their sound very much (EQing them makes em even better)


----------



## Sam L

foniak said:


> Whats the best sound you can get with a traditional shape? I just can't get into the tiny LBBS shell unfortunately.
> Thoughts on FAAEAL Datura pro?
> For reference, I really liked the EB2.


they eq exceptionally well. my thoughts on them.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbud-target-curve-tests.944006/page-17#post-16120062


----------



## jeejack (Jan 15, 2022)

jogawag said:


> Do you know what bisoy uses for it's drivers?


I think this
15.4mm 150ohm Flat Head Earbuds Speaker High Impedance Bass Version Unit Diy MX500 Driver Earphone Accessories (1Pair)
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mtVOLcc
because the white version is under it


----------



## jeejack

mochill said:


> Newbsound 150pro , soon to be released 😁


Wow... Beautiful 👏


----------



## FranQL

jeejack said:


> I think this
> 15.4mm 150ohm Flat Head Earbuds Speaker High Impedance Bass Version Unit Diy MX500 Driver Earphone Accessories (1Pair)
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mtVOLcc
> because the white version is under it



That's a great driver, of exceptional quality, as Blur users of the MX150 series can confirm.

Newbsound 150 is a very beautiful build!


----------



## jeejack

FranQL said:


> That's a great driver, of exceptional quality, as Blur users of the MX150 series can confirm.
> 
> Newbsound 150 is a very beautiful build!


We also find it in Faaeal Rosemary, but here the drag and drop tuning doesn't work!


----------



## FranQL

jeejack said:


> We also find it in Faaeal Rosemary, but here the drag and drop tuning doesn't work!



That is where the merit of tuning is clearly appreciated... 

sounds bad rosemary? I don't think so, could it sound much better???? in my experience.....infinitely better.


----------



## RikudouGoku (Jan 15, 2022)

Some new buds that I got from @nymz. 

VE Monk Plus SPC: C

L-shaped

Lots of mid-bass (has bloat), vocals are a bit recessed (unclean), treble is non-peaky and smooth, decent timbre, lacking in resolution



VE Monk SM: D+

Bright-neutral

Lacks a lot of bass, decent vocals, treble is elevated too much, has good technicalities but timbre is not that good


Blur MX64 OFC STE - special tuning edition (using Hiegi foams): S+

Bass-boosted neutral

Excellent bass texture that is elevated, forward and clean vocals with great tonality, treble is airy but smooth, very technical (not the best timbre or stage, but good)

Comparisons:


MX64 OFC STE - special tuning edition (Hiegi foam)LBBSSub-bass+-Mid-bass+-Lower-mids+-Upper-mids-+Treble==Upper-treble-+Soundstage-+Imaging-+Separation-+Macro-detail==Micro-detail-+Timbre-+
Overall: The LBBS is a bit more technical (does have the tuning advantage) and better timbre, tonality wise I do enjoy the MX64 more and it suits my library better, but the LBBS is more of a specialist for acoustic/vocal tracks which it is doing a lot better than the more versatile MX64. It is impressive that the MX64 can still compete with the LBBS in terms of technicalities when it is warmer and bassier than the LBBS.




MX64 OFC STE - special tuning edition (Hiegi foam)Chaconne (Hiegi foam)Sub-bass+-Mid-bass+-Lower-mids+-Upper-mids-+Treble-+Upper-treble-+Soundstage-+Imaging-+Separation-+Macro-detail-+Micro-detail-+Timbre-+
Overall: The Chaconne is more technical (does have the tuning advantage) and better timbre, tonality wise I do enjoy the MX64 more and it suits my library better, but the Chaconne is more of a specialist for acoustic/vocal tracks which it is doing a lot better than the more versatile MX64. Technicalities are quite a bit better on the Chaconne and even more so if used with regular foams instead of the Hiegi on the Chaconne.


----------



## ian91 (Jan 15, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> Some new buds that I got from @nymz.
> 
> VE Monk Plus SPC: C
> 
> ...



Glad to see you enjoying the MX64 STE and thankyou for the useful comparisons. It's up there with my favourite Blur tunings and as you point out, very versatile. It seems I need to check out the Chaconne sooner rather than later.

Edit: also forgot to suggest - anyone in the market for a similar theme but 'better' vocals, larger staging and a more neutral bass should check out the _Blur 189 Hybrid MX64_ (a newer line of buds that takes some inspiration from the STE). Truly a spectacular vocal performer (along with its bigger brother the _Blur 189 Hybrid MX150_).


----------



## Sam L

jogawag said:


> First and foremost, the bad sounding earbud in "Everyone always says ry4s sounds bad when I searched." Is Ry4s MMCX Normal (US $ 4.64), not Ry4s MMCX Plus (US $ 7.43) I showed.
> 
> Next, I think that it is not crazy to buy them for just for the shells to swap drivers with at the $ 4 they are right now on ali.
> That's because I've already done that with the N52 Blue Glue 32ohm drivers below.
> ...


Nice. I think I'll do they same. Regarding sound quality, I have the high impedance version and the sound is great.


----------



## Billyak

What would anyone recommend for buds with the best timbre? I have the kLLBs, X6 and EBX21, is there anything better than them in the timbre department?


----------



## n00b

Billyak said:


> What would anyone recommend for buds with the best timbre? I have the kLLBs, X6 and EBX21, is there anything better than them in the timbre department?


If you like LBBS and EBX21 a logical upgrade would be the Moondrop Chaconne imo.


----------



## Sam L

Kamen555 said:


> Got a pair of Yincrow rw9. Really enjoying them. Different than the X6, but enjoyable none the less. 😋
> Love the cable, n the pouch that comes with it.


Fully agree. Great bud. The cable is identical to the old ue900 cable. For some reason, I love it.


----------



## ihaveears

jogawag said:


> First and foremost, the bad sounding earbud in "Everyone always says ry4s sounds bad when I searched." Is Ry4s MMCX Normal (US $ 4.64), not Ry4s MMCX Plus (US $ 7.43) I showed.
> 
> Next, I think that it is not crazy to buy them for just for the shells to swap drivers with at the $ 4 they are right now on ali.
> That's because I've already done that with the N52 Blue Glue 32ohm drivers below.
> ...


Thanks for clearing that up I didn't know they were different. Thanks!


----------



## jogawag

Billyak said:


> What would anyone recommend for buds with the best timbre? I have the kLLBs, X6 and EBX21, is there anything better than them in the timbre department?



One of my acquaintances said "I bought a Temperament Bell-Ti Plus, so I don't need the Chaconne and Liebesleid anymore. ".

And @n00b says in the following post that the Temperament Bell-Ti Plus is #1, ahead of the Chaconne and Newbsound 32pro.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16669989

Yes, the Temperament Bell-Ti Plus has some QC issues, but if you can overcome them, it's clearly #1.


----------



## n00b

jogawag said:


> Yes, the Temperament Bell-Ti Plus has some QC issues, but if you can overcome them, it's clearly #1.


Just want to add a huge grain of salt here as it may be clearly #1 in a sample size of 2, and my Bell Ti Plus is broken so I couldn’t even overcome the QC issues.


----------



## jogawag

n00b said:


> Just want to add a huge grain of salt here as it may be clearly #1 in a sample size of 2, and my Bell Ti Plus is broken so I couldn’t even overcome the QC issues.


Has your Bell Ti Plus not been repaired yet?
What the hell is Ksearphone doing?


----------



## n00b

Supposedly the office or repair facility is shut down for a month because of COVID, according to Vs Audio Store on Ali.


----------



## Ronion

n00b said:


> Supposedly the office or repair facility is shut down for a month because of COVID, according to Vs Audio Store on Ali.


Sorry to hear that!  That’s awful.  Hope they get up and running or at least you your money back.


----------



## samandhi

samandhi said:


> Same here... Green w/out mic. Hell, I'll just say it then, I'll do it for the sake of the anime waifu..


OK! Good news is they are on the way. The bad is that they aren't expected to arrive until 2/29/22...


----------



## rkw

n00b said:


> Supposedly the office or repair facility is shut down for a month because of COVID, according to Vs Audio Store on Ali.


... then it will be followed by Chinese New Year closure


----------



## baskingshark

samandhi said:


> OK! Good news is they are on the way. The bad is that they aren't expected to arrive until 2/29/22...



29.02.22!!!!

By then a new hypetrain earbud would have been released!!


----------



## jao29

n00b said:


> Supposedly the office or repair facility is shut down for a month because of COVID, according to Vs Audio Store on Ali.


How did your Bell Ti Plus break? Was it the cable or the drivers themselves?


----------



## rkw (Jan 16, 2022)

samandhi said:


> OK! Good news is they are on the way. The bad is that they aren't expected to arrive until 2/29/22...


A sneaky way of telling you they will never arrive? 2022 isn't a leap year...


----------



## foniak

jogawag said:


> If you like a smaller (14.8mm driver) traditional shaped shell with great treble, the Shozy Cygnus is for you.
> https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/shozy-cygnus.html
> 
> The FAAEAL Datura pro is not a traditional shaped shell and has a weak bass problem.


That's pretty expensive. How does it compare to Qian39 or other cheaper ones with similar classic shape? you can't buy them anymore?

I just don't want to overpay if it not worth it.


----------



## jogawag (Jan 17, 2022)

foniak said:


> That's pretty expensive. How does it compare to Qian39 or other cheaper ones with similar classic shape? you can't buy them anymore?
> 
> I just don't want to overpay if it not worth it.


You said "What would anyone recommend for buds with the *best* *timbre*?", so I recommended the best, slightly more expensive one.

A smaller and slightly cheaper one that I would recommend is the NiceHCK B40.


----------



## hydroid

Hey there pips.
This could be a long shot/silly question.
But anyone here that came across an earbud that sounds similar or close to the tin hifi P1?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 18, 2022)

hydroid said:


> Hey there pips.
> This could be a long shot/silly question.
> But anyone here that came across an earbud that sounds similar or close to the tin hifi P1?


Funny, I just listened to a pair of these just a few weeks back! I never liked TinHiFi's other IEMs as they were always too bright and sibilant for my sensitive tastes. However, I found the P1 to be a completely different animal than say the T3 or T2 (I think it was the "Pro" version). I found the P1's primary signature to be _*neutral - slightly bright*_ leaning... but far from being sibilant or bright so I think I could safely say it wouldn't satisfy a treblehead. Very detailed and resolute the P1 provides excellent timbre. It exhibits a very unique strong secondary signature that is *dark & immersive* but never muddy, veiled, too dry, nor boring. The P1 also offers a slightly weaker secondary signature that is *detailed* in the upper mid-range to lower treble.

It is very hard to compare the typically flatter, more neutral sound signature of a planar magnetic with that of a dynamic driver.

With that said, dare I offer a possible close resemblance to the *Shozy 大黑 Big Black (BK) Stardust* which also has a very similar rich darkness about it without sacrificing detail and resolution. The timbre is probably very similar as well. Though the BK is slightly warmer overall with a primary signature that is _*neutral - warm leaning*_.


----------



## hydroid

WoodyLuvr said:


> Funny, I just listened to a pair of these just a few weeks back! I never liked TinHiFi's other IEMs as they were always too bright and sibilant for my sensitive tastes. However, I found the P1 to be a completely different animal than say the T3 or T2 (I think it was the "Pro" version). I found the P1's primary signature to be _*neutral - slightly bright*_ leaning... but far from being sibilant or bright so I think I could safely say it wouldn't satisfy a treblehead. Very detailed and resolute the P1 provides excellent timbre. It exhibits a very unique strong secondary signature that is *dark & immersive* but never muddy, veiled, too dry, nor boring. The P1 also offers a slightly weaker secondary signature that is *detailed* in the upper mid-range to lower treble.
> 
> It is very hard to compare the typically flatter, more neutral sound signature of a planar magnetic with that of a dynamic driver.
> 
> With that said, dare I offer a possible close resemblance to the *Shozy 大黑 Big Black (BK) Stardust* which also has a very similar rich darkness about it without sacrificing detail and resolution. The timbre is probably very similar as well. Though the BK is slightly warmer overall with a primary signature that is _*neutral - warm leaning*_.


Had the same experience with Tin Hifi iems. Only the P1 suits my preference.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and might consider the stardust.
Appreciate it bud


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Funny, I just listened to a pair of these just a few weeks back! I never liked TinHiFi's other IEMs as they were always too bright and sibilant for my sensitive tastes. However, I found the P1 to be a completely different animal than say the T3 or T2 (I think it was the "Pro" version). I found the P1's primary signature to be _*neutral - slightly bright*_ leaning... but far from being sibilant or bright so I think I could safely say it wouldn't satisfy a treblehead. Very detailed and resolute the P1 provides excellent timbre. It exhibits a very unique strong secondary signature that is *dark & immersive* but never muddy, veiled, too dry, nor boring. The P1 also offers a slightly weaker secondary signature that is *detailed* in the upper mid-range to lower treble.
> 
> It is very hard to compare the typically flatter, more neutral sound signature of a planar magnetic with that of a dynamic driver.
> 
> With that said, dare I offer a possible close resemblance to the *Shozy 大黑 Big Black (BK) Stardust* which also has a very similar rich darkness about it without sacrificing detail and resolution. The timbre is probably very similar as well. Though the BK is slightly warmer overall with a primary signature that is _*neutral - warm leaning*_.





hydroid said:


> Had the same experience with Tin Hifi iems. Only the P1 suits my preference.
> Thanks for sharing your thoughts and might consider the stardust.
> Appreciate it bud


WOW! @WoodyLuvr I guess I had never thought to ask on here if there WAS something similar, because I love them as well, and they are still in my daily rotation. When you describe the P1, are you talking about the OG or the P1+ version? I know that they re-released it recently as the plus version, and honestly I am not sure exactly what has changed. 

I will have a look at the Stardust also. Thanks!


----------



## RikudouGoku

samandhi said:


> honestly I am not sure exactly what has changed.


Tonality change, it went from Bright-neutral with way too much upper-treble and with poor timbre to warm-neutral and addressed those 2 factors. 

Not sure if there is any buds similar to either of them, because a planar is quite different from a DD.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 18, 2022)

samandhi said:


> WOW! @WoodyLuvr I guess I had never thought to ask on here if there WAS something similar, because I love them as well, and they are still in my daily rotation. When you describe the P1, are you talking about the OG or the P1+ version? I know that they re-released it recently as the plus version, and honestly I am not sure exactly what has changed.
> 
> I will have a look at the Stardust also. Thanks!


A very good question. I'll need to double check with my buddy to confirm... after reading @RikudouGoku's response I have no idea now but I do believe it is the newer "+" version.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Does anyone know where you can find something like this?






Earbud to iem converter, I want to try it and measure it.

Since someone managed to get some decent looking (and consistent) graphs.


----------



## Rary (Jan 18, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> Does anyone know where you can find something like this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's the first time i see that kind of earbud to iem adapter but there are some similar items on Ali that could be glued to a mic.
Yurbuds adapters:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32860195064.html
Silicon adapters:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33019014929.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32968652740.html

(These are just the first results i found, if you want to try them make sure to get the right size).

Keep in mind that you wouldn't be able to use foams and the frequency response would be very different compared to real use.

I'm developing my own "poor man" diy measurement rigs, the idea is to get something that can get consistent results with minimum to no expense (i don't want to 3d print an adapter and buy a calibrated mic, all my money is already going into new earbuds )
These improvised rigs can only provide consistency, don't expect accuracy out of a dubious thing glued to a cheap mic.
They can still be a useful tool to tune diy earbuds or to get an idea of the differences between 2 or more earbuds.


(Samsung earbuds mic in a polystyrene box on the left and Nokia HDS3 mic inside carved wood on the right)


----------



## RikudouGoku

Rary said:


> It's the first time i see that kind of earbud to iem adapter but there are some similar items on Ali that could be glued to a mic.
> Yurbuds adapters:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32860195064.html
> Silicon adapters:
> ...


Interesting, those adapters might work with a regular IEC711 coupler (like I got). But there is no size specified on those....



A cheaper coupler than the IEC711 (which is 80 usd), would be the Dayton IMM-6 (20-30 usd), but you probably know about it already.


----------



## Rary

RikudouGoku said:


> Interesting, those adapters might work with a regular IEC711 coupler (like I got). But there is no size specified on those....
> 
> 
> 
> A cheaper coupler than the IEC711 (which is 80 usd), would be the Dayton IMM-6 (20-30 usd), but you probably know about it already.


I already got recommended the IMM-6 but it's around 35€ here and i'd rather buy a second pair of Smabat Super One drivers


----------



## RikudouGoku

Rary said:


> I already got recommended the IMM-6 but it's around 35€ here and i'd rather buy a second pair of Smabat Super One drivers


ouch, thats expensive. And you still need to do some DIY work on it to make it work for iems, let alone earbuds lol.


----------



## Rary (Jan 18, 2022)

You could also consider attaching a fake ear to one of your mics:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001671122762.html


----------



## RikudouGoku

Rary said:


> You could also consider attaching a fake ear to one of your mics:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/account/setting.html


You mean something like this?


----------



## Rary (Jan 18, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> You mean something like this?


That's way too expensive, sorry i fixed the link in the previous post.


----------



## ian91 (Jan 18, 2022)

I received my second bud from Earbud CustomArt today. This one is from a previous model line 'Garuda', taking inspiration in its design from its namesake, the mythological bird-like Garuda of South East Asian culture.

It has a midforward signature that reveals tonnes of detail in vocals/guitar/strings. It has a noticeable midbass emphasis that can kick when it needs to and gives body to percussion/cello/viol. Very resolving from top to bottom, excellent timbre and a lovely spacious stage. Subbass is rolled off, but not egregiously so and rarely becomes an issue with my library.


----------



## regulator

RikudouGoku said:


> Does anyone know where you can find something like this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


dang, finding a gerogerigegege fan in the hifi world is very unlikely  also that contraption looks like it'll be a great conceptual fit to listening to that kinda piercing noise madness!


----------



## Charlyro222

ian91 said:


> I received my second bud from Earbud CustomArt today. This one is from a previous model line 'Garuda', taking inspiration in its design from its namesake, the mythological bird-like Garuda of South East Asian culture.
> 
> It has a midforward signature that reveals tonnes of detail in vocals/guitar/strings. It has a noticeable midbass emphasis that can kick when it needs to and gives body to percussion/cello/viol. Very resolving from top to bottom, excellent timbre and a lovely spacious stage. Subbass is rolled off, but not egregiously so and rarely becomes an issue with my library.


Mine are still waiting at customs since 1 month


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> ouch, thats expensive. And you still need to do some DIY work on it to make it work for iems, let alone earbuds lol.


Nooo, this is only for buds bro 


RikudouGoku said:


> You mean something like this?


My ear cost the same


----------



## captione

RikudouGoku said:


> Does anyone know where you can find something like this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Neat! You posted my humble rig (although very ghetto and scuffed)

Here's the packaging of the in-ear adapters if someone is very interested to track them down. Courtesy of my friend from Japan that gave me the tips:






Hope you guys get graphing in no time


----------



## RikudouGoku

captione said:


> Neat! You posted my humble rig (although very ghetto and scuffed)
> 
> Here's the packaging of the in-ear adapters if someone is very interested to track them down. Courtesy of my friend from Japan that gave me the tips:
> 
> ...


I FOUND IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!


https://www.amazon.co.jp/旭電機化成-AYH-207-スマイルキッズ-耳から落ちにくい-イヤホンキャップ/dp/B003X0BP8A






Ordered it, ETA next thursday.


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> Does anyone know where you can find something like this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bro I bought one of these from Taobao, the seller says it is specifically for measuring earbuds, but haven't got down to using it yet, been busy using my IEC711 coupler on IEMs so far.




Only thing about Taobao is that one needs to communicate in Chinese and CS/returns policy there is a bit dodgy.


----------



## foniak

jogawag said:


> You said "What would anyone recommend for buds with the *best* *timbre*?", so I recommended the best, slightly more expensive one.
> 
> A smaller and slightly cheaper one that I would recommend is the NiceHCK B40.


Sightly more? that's 89$ vs 14$

How does the b40 compare vs x6?

I would like something reasonably neutral, classic shape, I liked sound and shape of pk3 (original) or EB2


----------



## jogawag (Jan 19, 2022)

foniak said:


> Sightly more? that's 89$ vs 14$
> 
> How does the b40 compare vs x6?
> 
> I would like something reasonably neutral, classic shape, I liked sound and shape of pk3 (original) or EB2



Comparing the b40 and x6, the b40 is closer to neutral and the x6 is for the bass head.

The shape of b40 is pk type, but it is about 0.2mm larger.
The shape of x6 is called mx500 type, which is clearly larger than pk type.

EDIT:
However, if you want sound quality, I recommend Shozy Cygnus, which is also a true PK type...


----------



## axhng

Some quick photos of the EB2S. Haven't had much time with them yet (construction going on around me so can't use them much anyway), but quick impressions are that nothing seems too off or weird. Sounds a bit like a fuller and smoother version of the ME80 maybe? Will need more time for sure. Anyway, fit is excellent and one of the best i've tried so far. light weight shells, not too big, and the stem design makes them easy to put on/remove/adjust. Liking the colour too and the cable.


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> Nooo, this is only for buds bro
> 
> My ear cost the same



make an offer for one of my ears


----------



## calcatreppola

in the meantime I received my Maria II
hmmmmm
strange... 
this night I would have liked to stay awake listening to them
but they definitely need a burn-in

maybe some of you guys might help me: ther is a +/- indication on the earbud. How I recognize polarity on the cable?


----------



## baskingshark

calcatreppola said:


> in the meantime I received my Maria II
> hmmmmm
> strange...
> this night I would have liked to stay awake listening to them
> ...



You can use this youtube video to check out the left/right side for an IEM/earbud, plus to test for out of phase issues:


----------



## regulator

burning in is just unnecessary usage of power resources for speculative (or mythical) gains. just listen to them and if you don't like them, trade them for something you like.


----------



## waynes world

foniak said:


> Sightly more? that's 89$ vs 14$
> 
> How does the b40 compare vs x6?
> 
> I would like something reasonably neutral, classic shape, I liked sound and shape of pk3 (original) or EB2





jogawag said:


> Comparing the b40 and x6, the b40 is closer to neutral and the x6 is for the bass head.
> 
> The shape of b40 is pk type, but it is about 0.2mm larger.
> The shape of x6 is called mx500 type, which is clearly larger than pk type.



I love the X6's, but the B40's also sound great to me especially after adding some bass boost. I use them for sleeping (pk type shell, robust cable), and so far they have survived many months of that special type of abuse.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 19, 2022)

So it looks like the specs have finally dropped (been added) regarding the newly releasing *TinHiFi G2* earbud on the HiFiGo Order Site *here*

_Features:-_​_>Large 14.2mm dynamic driver._​​_Technical Specs:-_​_>Impedance: 22Ω±15%._​​_>Sensitivity: 101±3dB._​​_>Frequency Response: 10Hz-20kHz._​​_>Rated power: 3mW._​​_>Max power: 5mW._​​_>Max Distortion: 1%@1kHz._​​_>Termination Plug: 3.5mm._​


----------



## Duqs (Jan 19, 2022)

So I'm new here, jumped into the rabbit hole just a couple of days ago.
I never liked IEs or any closed headphones. I did had a nice rather neutral pair of IEs with less bass, but my daddy took them from me and I never bothered because I was repositioning them all the time anyway. Also, I've had a Sony 7506, very interesting at first, but very fatiguing in the long run. 58X are OK for me, but mine are a bit modified (foam only around the driver), bass not punchy, not enough detail. I like the Hifiman HE400i(2020) for detail and controlled bass, but I feel my next step-up should have more organic sound (is this called timbre?)

I'd like to share my orders so far, please comment, what should I expect, what have I missed.

1) Little Black Bell S LBBS - because I like the design and the described sound signature and everybody says those are great. Less bass which should be ok with me.
2) NiceHCK B40 - because I wanted a PK-shell with a nice cable, just to see if the shell fits me. OK for blogs/vocal, so I do have use for this.
3) Earbuds Anonymous - because I wanted a MX500-shell with a nice cable, just to see if the shell fits me. Should have less fatiguing heights than others, I hope they are not too veiled.
4) Monks Plus - because I was already ordering Avani & Abigail. Should be an alternative to B40 for blogs/vocals without harsh heights.
5) Monks SM - because i like the metal build. I'm aware that the heights could be harsh and the bass missing, but who knows.
6) Sony MDR E-535 - because I owned a similar Sony's in the 90's, which I haven't found again, despite of googling for days. Mine had a somwhat thicker non-removable rim made of soft foam rubber (kind of casted, glued to the metal mesh), very durable but comfortable at the same time.



Headphones owned: Sennheiser HD58X, Hifiman 400i(2020), PortaPro, Ultrasone HFI-15G
DAC-AMPs owned: Apogee Groove, Dragonfly red (on the way out), VE Avani & Abigail (on the way in)


----------



## FranQL

Duqs said:


> So I'm new here, jumped into the rabbit hole just a couple of days ago.
> I never liked IEs or any closed headphones. I did had a nice rather neutral pair of IEs with less bass, but my daddy took them from me and I never bothered because I was repositioning them all the time anyway. Also, I've had a Sony 7506, very interesting at first, but very fatiguing in the long run. 58X are OK for me, but mine are a bit modified (foam only around the driver), bass not punchy, not enough detail. I like the Hifiman HE400i(2020) for detail and controlled bass, but I feel my next step-up should have more organic sound (is this called timbre?)
> 
> I'd like to share my orders so far, please comment, what should I expect, what have I missed.
> ...



Tingo TG38S I think it fits perfectly in your collection


https://a.aliexpress.com/_v4Zlgh


----------



## jogawag (Jan 19, 2022)

Duqs said:


> So I'm new here, jumped into the rabbit hole just a couple of days ago.
> I never liked IEs or any closed headphones. I did had a nice rather neutral pair of IEs with less bass, but my daddy took them from me and I never bothered because I was repositioning them all the time anyway. Also, I've had a Sony 7506, very interesting at first, but very fatiguing in the long run. 58X are OK for me, but mine are a bit modified (foam only around the driver), bass not punchy, not enough detail. I like the Hifiman HE400i(2020) for detail and controlled bass, but I feel my next step-up should have more organic sound (is this called timbre?)
> 
> I'd like to share my orders so far, please comment, what should I expect, what have I missed.
> ...



The LBBS and the NiceHCK B40 are both earbuds that I would recommend.

I haven't listened to the Earbuds Anonymous, but it has a good reputation, so it's probably a good earbud. (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-anonymous-earbud.920882/)
The Earbuds Anonymous is not an MX500-shell, but conveniently the Monk Plus is an MX500-shell.

Then there's the Monk SM, which is a good sounding earbuds (IMO), not too harsh on the treble and with good bass.

Lastly is the Sony MDR-E535, I had no idea about this one and I don't know how to get it.
What about the Sony MDR-E9LP (https://www.amazon.com//dp/B004RE3YNA/?th=1) with higher ratings instead?

The DIY TG-38S is also an MX500-shell.


----------



## cqtek (Jan 19, 2022)

If you are talking about couplers for measuring frequency responses of earbuds, I designed a small piece to fit my IEC60318-4 microphone.
 I then fabricated it on my little 3D printer at work.
You can see some pictures here.
I also made a small 0.5mm hole in it to allow the bass to breathe, otherwise the bass would come out very swollen. With a bigger hole, the bass was very light.
After several trials, I came to a compromise.

I don't think the graphs are very realistic, but they could be useful for comparison.


----------



## Duqs

jogawag said:


> Lastly is the Sony MDR-E535, I had no idea about this one and I don't know how to get it.
> What about the Sony MDR-E9LP (https://www.amazon.com//dp/B004RE3YNA/?th=1) with higher ratings instead?


Thanx.

Sony MDRE535 (and E515 and E525)  is something very old, entry or midrange from the 90's, probably not worth mentioning.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jan 19, 2022)

I've shared this before but this is my DIY measurement rig.


I made a mold of my own ear (in lieu of buying a silicone one) using some hobby supplies.













Using that mold I was able to take many measurements that seemed similar to what I 'think' I hear. And came out similar to IEM and headphone graphs.

I then came up with a better design, that would allow for way more consistent measurements. I made a bunch of versions until I could match my ear mold measurements.








It does a very good job imo. Holds the earbuds without undue pressure which skews the low end measurements. It also only blocks around 40-50% of the edge, similar to how the buds are held in the ear and seal with foams at the face of the foam.


----------



## Barndoor (Jan 19, 2022)

Duqs said:


> So I'm new here, jumped into the rabbit hole just a couple of days ago.
> I never liked IEs or any closed headphones. I did had a nice rather neutral pair of IEs with less bass, but my daddy took them from me and I never bothered because I was repositioning them all the time anyway. Also, I've had a Sony 7506, very interesting at first, but very fatiguing in the long run. 58X are OK for me, but mine are a bit modified (foam only around the driver), bass not punchy, not enough detail. I like the Hifiman HE400i(2020) for detail and controlled bass, but I feel my next step-up should have more organic sound (is this called timbre?)
> 
> I'd like to share my orders so far, please comment, what should I expect, what have I missed.
> ...


I only have 2 from this list and wouldn't recommend either.
For me the Monk plus is mediocre, so will get absolutely no ear time from me, despite only have a few earbuds.

More controversially, I am also not a fan of the LBBS. The fit isn't great for me, the lightest movement of my head causes them to slip slightly and out of best position impacting sound. Foams don't seem to help for me. If I do manage to get these to stay in place then they are still not for me. There is too much emphasis on upper mids that make vocals sound unnatural to me and therefore unengaging.
Both the Vido and Qian39 are much more natural sounding to me and also a lot cheaper.


----------



## samandhi

Barndoor said:


> I only have 2 from this list and wouldn't recommend either.
> For me the Monk plus is mediocre, so will get absolutely no ear time from me, despite only have a few earbuds.
> 
> More controversially, I am also not a fan of the LBBS. The fit isn't great for me, the lightest movement of my head causes them to slip slightly and out of best position impacting sound. Foams don't seem to help for me. If I do manage to get these to stay in place then they are still not for me. There is too much emphasis on upper mids that make vocals sound unnatural to me and therefore unengaging.
> Both the Vido and Qian39 are much more natural sounding to me and also a lot cheaper.


OMG! You are not a fan of LBBS? Turn in your decoder ring, and you are out of the club... 

BTW! J/K I haven't ever heard them (yet).

But I have found a lot of the cheaper earbuds (and some higher end ones too) tend to overtune that upper-mid lower treble. I don't mind some (even though I am sensitive), but some companies so overdo it, they sound like something from old mono radio days (tonally). hehe


----------



## syazwaned

Barndoor said:


> I only have 2 from this list and wouldn't recommend either.
> For me the Monk plus is mediocre, so will get absolutely no ear time from me, despite only have a few earbuds.
> 
> More controversially, I am also not a fan of the LBBS. The fit isn't great for me, the lightest movement of my head causes them to slip slightly and out of best position impacting sound. Foams don't seem to help for me. If I do manage to get these to stay in place then they are still not for me. There is too much emphasis on upper mids that make vocals sound unnatural to me and therefore unengaging.
> Both the Vido and Qian39 are much more natural sounding to me and also a lot cheaper.


I believe you would prefer something like M2s Pro or VE Asura 2.0


----------



## Barndoor

syazwaned said:


> I believe you would prefer something like M2s Pro or VE Asura 2.0


Thanks, I think!
That sends me down a rabbit hole!
This seems a good price for M2S Pro:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002624547944.html
A rabbit whole with the modular different drivers and because VE has Asura 3.0 not 2.0.
Things are a bit quiet in the office today, so could be a challenge to get through the day without ordering something!


----------



## Duqs

Barndoor said:


> That sends me down a rabbit hole!
> This seems a good price for M2S Pro:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002624547944.html
> A rabbit whole with the modular different drivers and because VE has Asura 3.0 not 2.0



M2S Pro seem like a rabbit hole in the rabbit hole with all those alternative drivers. That's why I tried to avoid them


----------



## syazwaned

Duqs said:


> M2S Pro seem like a rabbit hole in the rabbit hole with all those alternative drivers. That's why I tried to avoid them


I have been use the stock 40 ohms driver for six month and happy with it.  Don't see the need to change the driver. The only downside is that is too large for my ears. My ears fit LBBs perfectly, and since you don't, I would think M2s pro would be a good fit for you.



Barndoor said:


> Thanks, I think!
> That sends me down a rabbit hole!
> This seems a good price for M2S Pro:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002624547944.html
> ...


I hope you like it bro! Just close you eye and order it haha!


----------



## axhng

after spending more time with them, i think eb2s are a nice step up from the ME80. It's like a slightly warmer, smoother, fuller sounding ME80, but with better technical performance. really liking them so far. i think might be an easier rec for me over the LBBS actually. LBBS is great for female vocals, so it's still worth every penny to me. But EB2S seems more flexible with the warmer and smoother tuning while providing detail retrieval that are around the same ballpark. Like the me80 it seems to have a bit more upper treble compared to the LBBS too, which gives cymbals a nicer sounding decay.
wider soundstage than the LBBS too and easier to listen to for longer sessions as well. Really enjoying it so far.


----------



## oneula

Just received and have been auditioning the; Moondrop Quarks, HZsound Bell Rhymes, and CCA CRAs while I'm waiting on delivery of the Kotori Dauntless from kickstarter.

But as I was going through listening to all these relatively new products and then flipping back and forth between these and some fairly oldies but goodies for comparison it made me realize that the stuff I already own seem to sound just as good if not better than these recently acquired and highly praised items.

For instance the Moondrop Quarks don't seem that much better fit and sound to me than my old Final E500 or Zero Audio Carbo Tenore who have a very similar similar form factor. Or the HZ Bell Rhymes being a nice sounding bud but then finding that my much cheaper and old reliable FENGRU Tingo TC200 original Silver 32ohm still held their own against it. And then there's the old original QKZ VK4 versus this new CCA CRA versus my Etymotic ER2XR

Even my new 7Hz Timeless, although a great sounding set wasn't able to create the same eye opening experience as when I first heard the original TIN P1 or BLON B03.
Is it all just incremental improvements at this point or is there really something left build wise that hasn't been tried yet? 
Has the rule of diminishing returns finally been reached?


----------



## Barndoor

Anyone tried JCally EP985?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003818587417.html
Looks nice, but not sure how well it will stay in the ear.


----------



## jogawag

FranQL said:


> You have at your disposal @Rary  DIY guide with the most popular drivers, you can do very interesting things and with very good SQ for very little money ... also if you already have the ability to weld, it is a great option


Regarding your post a while ago, where did you get those earbuds or earbuds shells?
Please tell me the url.


----------



## baskingshark

Received a review unit for the HZSound Bell Rhyme.




HZSound are famous for the cult classic Heart Mirror IEM, which are a technical neutral bright budget set that has a huge following on some FB groups.

The Bell Rhyme come with a denim carry pouch, 2 pairs of donut foams and 2 pairs of full foams.




The cable is non detachable, and there is an option for a mic versus non-mic version. Even though they are non-detachable, the cables are not microphonic and quite tangle free.

Comfort is good, they have a similar shape to the ME80 and Faaeal Datura Pro. They are easy to drive, no amping necessary.

Sound signature is a U-shaped sound profile, mid-bass centric with a sub-bass roll off as per most earbuds. Bass is on the faster side with a mild mid-bass bleed, texturing is average. Mids are boosted at the upper mids and at moderate/low volumes, they are not fatiguing/shouty. But as per the Fletcher Munson Curve, playing this set at loud volumes may be a bit fatiguing at this region. The treble is not the most extended, minimal sibilance.

Timbre is excellent. Technicalities wise, imaging, layering and instrument separation are quite good for a $20 set. Though micro-details are not classleading. Soundstage is just average.

Compared to the Smabat M2S Pro (150 ohm driver), this set is easier to drive, and has less sub-bass. The Bell Rhyme have better soundstage, imaging and instrument separation, but have a thinner note weight.

Compared to the Yincrow X6, the Bell Rhyme have a less textured sub-bass and less bass extension, but technicalities and soundstage go to the Bell Rhyme.



All in all, quite a decent pair of earbuds here. Nothing really ground breaking, but quite an all-rounder set in view of the U-shaped tuning. Not the most technical, does nothing really wrong, and I think those in this earbud hobby would have owned something better. This will be a good introductory set to those coming to the earbud rabbithole.


----------



## jogawag (Jan 21, 2022)

captione said:


> Neat! You posted my humble rig (although very ghetto and scuffed)
> 
> Here's the packaging of the in-ear adapters if someone is very interested to track them down. Courtesy of my friend from Japan that gave me the tips:
> 
> ...





RikudouGoku said:


> I FOUND IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.jp/旭電機化成-AYH-207-スマイルキッズ-耳から落ちにくい-イヤホンキャップ/dp/B003X0BP8A
> ...



I've got them!
Although I had to cut off the tips as they were too long for my ear holes.

I can listen to the sound from the earbuds through them with amazing clarity!

And they removed my weakness towards the big and thick MX500 type earbuds.
I highly recommend them to anyone who is not a fan of the MX500 type earbuds like me.

Thanks to captione and RikudouGoku for the heads up!


----------



## samandhi

axhng said:


> after spending more time with them, i think eb2s are a nice step up from the ME80. It's like a slightly warmer, smoother, fuller sounding ME80, but with better technical performance. really liking them so far. i think might be an easier rec for me over the LBBS actually. LBBS is great for female vocals, so it's still worth every penny to me. But EB2S seems more flexible with the warmer and smoother tuning while providing detail retrieval that are around the same ballpark. Like the me80 it seems to have a bit more upper treble compared to the LBBS too, which gives cymbals a nicer sounding decay.
> wider soundstage than the LBBS too and easier to listen to for longer sessions as well. Really enjoying it so far.


OH! That's fantastic to hear. You have turned what was an impulse buy (for giggles), into some real excitement on my part. I wasn't expecting much to be honest other than that they look pretty nice. You have made it worse for me, because I was fine waiting the exorbitant shipping time to arrive but now I am begrudging the slow shipping. 


oneula said:


> Just received and have been auditioning the; Moondrop Quarks, HZsound Bell Rhymes, and CCA CRAs while I'm waiting on delivery of the Kotori Dauntless from kickstarter.
> 
> But as I was going through listening to all these relatively new products and then flipping back and forth between these and some fairly oldies but goodies for comparison it made me realize that the stuff I already own seem to sound just as good if not better than these recently acquired and highly praised items.
> 
> ...


I whole heartedly agree with this statement and wonder the same thing. I think this has been true for MANY years IMO. I still have some phones from days gone past, that are (IMO) unmatched to this day, just tweaked copies. But the journey is still fun, to be sure.


----------



## waynes world

axhng said:


> after spending more time with them, i think eb2s are a nice step up from the ME80. It's like a slightly warmer, smoother, fuller sounding ME80, but with better technical performance. really liking them so far. i think might be an easier rec for me over the LBBS actually. LBBS is great for female vocals, so it's still worth every penny to me. But EB2S seems more flexible with the warmer and smoother tuning while providing detail retrieval that are around the same ballpark. Like the me80 it seems to have a bit more upper treble compared to the LBBS too, which gives cymbals a nicer sounding decay.
> wider soundstage than the LBBS too and easier to listen to for longer sessions as well. Really enjoying it so far.



I think what you are saying isthat I might enjoy the EB2S's very much!


----------



## FranQL (Jan 21, 2022)

jogawag said:


> Regarding your post a while ago, where did you get those earbuds or earbuds shells?
> Please tell me the url.



Hello, I reused the Nokia HDS3 shell, the only way to get them is to look for them on ebay or second-hand in a local store, they are very comfortable, I get an excellent sound in the tunings I make on them and I think they look spectacular......

here are two of my best buds, both LCP (120 Ohm and 40 Ohm)


----------



## baskingshark

FranQL said:


> Hello, I just reused the Nokia HDS3 shell, the only way to get them is to look for them on ebay or second-hand in a local store, they are very comfortable, I get an excellent sound in the tunings I make on them and I think they look spectacular......
> 
> here are two of my best buds, both LCP (120 Ohm and 40 Ohm)



Beautiful stuff.

Last year was the year of the beryllium driver hypetrain, the past few months, LCP drivers are all the rage in the IEM world - eg Moondrop Aria 2021, Tin T3 Plus, DUNU Titan S.


----------



## jogawag

FranQL said:


> Hello, I just reused the Nokia HDS3 shell, the only way to get them is to look for them on ebay or second-hand in a local store, they are very comfortable, I get an excellent sound in the tunings I make on them and I think they look spectacular......
> 
> here are two of my best buds, both LCP (120 Ohm and 40 Ohm)


It's so cool!

By the way, what is the diameter of the suitable driver? 15.4mm or 14.8mm?

Thank you in advance.


----------



## FranQL

jogawag said:


> It's so cool!
> 
> By the way, what is the diameter of the suitable driver? 15.4mm or 14.8mm?
> 
> Thank you in advance.



It is 15.4 mm, you know that anything you need I will help you without problem.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

FranQL said:


> Hello, I just reused the Nokia HDS3 shell, the only way to get them is to look for them on ebay or second-hand in a local store, they are very comfortable, I get an excellent sound in the tunings I make on them and I think they look spectacular......
> 
> here are two of my best buds, both LCP (120 Ohm and 40 Ohm)


Cylons v2! What an epic build!


----------



## jeejack

FranQL said:


> Hello, I reused the Nokia HDS3 shell, the only way to get them is to look for them on ebay or second-hand in a local store, they are very comfortable, I get an excellent sound in the tunings I make on them and I think they look spectacular......
> 
> here are two of my best buds, both LCP (120 Ohm and 40 Ohm)


----------



## tendou

axhng said:


> after spending more time with them, i think eb2s are a nice step up from the ME80. It's like a slightly warmer, smoother, fuller sounding ME80, but with better technical performance. really liking them so far. i think might be an easier rec for me over the LBBS actually. LBBS is great for female vocals, so it's still worth every penny to me. But EB2S seems more flexible with the warmer and smoother tuning while providing detail retrieval that are around the same ballpark. Like the me80 it seems to have a bit more upper treble compared to the LBBS too, which gives cymbals a nicer sounding decay.
> wider soundstage than the LBBS too and easier to listen to for longer sessions as well. Really enjoying it so far.


have you heard of faaeal datura pro? If yes how is it compared?


----------



## axhng

tendou said:


> have you heard of faaeal datura pro? If yes how is it compared?


unfortunately have not tried the faaeal datura pro before.


----------



## 1clearhead

oneula said:


> Just received and have been auditioning the; Moondrop Quarks, HZsound Bell Rhymes, and CCA CRAs while I'm waiting on delivery of the Kotori Dauntless from kickstarter.
> 
> But as I was going through listening to all these relatively new products and then flipping back and forth between these and some fairly oldies but goodies for comparison it made me realize that the stuff I already own seem to sound just as good if not better than these recently acquired and highly praised items.
> 
> ...


Okay, so just convinced me on the *FENGRU Tingo TC200 original Silver 32ohm* "mmcx version". Just placed an order on Taobao.
Thanks! 

-Clear


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> Beautiful stuff.
> 
> Last year was the year of the beryllium driver hypetrain, the past few months, LCP drivers are all the rage in the IEM world - eg Moondrop Aria 2021, Tin T3 Plus, DUNU Titan S.


You forgot DLC hype


----------



## furyossa

1clearhead said:


> Okay, so just convinced me on the *FENGRU Tingo TC200 original Silver 32ohm* "mmcx version". Just placed an order on Taobao.
> Thanks!
> 
> -Clear


TC200 or TC200Pro ?


----------



## RikudouGoku

jogawag said:


> I've got them!
> Although I had to cut off the tips as they were too long for my ear holes.
> 
> I can listen to the sound from the eaebuds through them with amazing clarity!
> ...


Wait, you are using them for your ears? Not the coupler?


----------



## ian91

jogawag said:


> I've got them!
> Although I had to cut off the tips as they were too long for my ear holes.
> 
> I can listen to the sound from the eaebuds through them with amazing clarity!
> ...



Looking at these makes me wish you had pixelated the image to preserve your earbuds dignity...they're some of the strangest things I've seen in the audio world I must admit...

More power to you for using them though!


----------



## jogawag

1clearhead said:


> Okay, so just convinced me on the *FENGRU Tingo TC200 original Silver 32ohm* "mmcx version". Just placed an order on Taobao.
> Thanks!
> 
> -Clear


Hi, aren't those earbuds the same as the silver ones below?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003196020505.html


----------



## 1clearhead

furyossa said:


> TC200 or TC200Pro ?


I guess I bought the TC200. I didn't even know they had a PRO version.


----------



## 1clearhead

jogawag said:


> Hi, aren't those earbuds the same as the silver ones below?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003196020505.html


No. The ones I bought are more like these...
https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005001863210768.html


----------



## jogawag (Jan 21, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> Wait, you are using them for your ears? Not the coupler?





ian91 said:


> Looking at these makes me wish you had pixelated the image to preserve your earbuds dignity...they're some of the strangest things I've seen in the audio world I must admit...
> 
> More power to you for using them though!


The "earbuds cap" product was originally designed to keep the earbuds from falling out of your ears. That's what is written on the Japanese Amazon translation.


----------



## rprodrigues (Jan 21, 2022)

jogawag said:


> Hi, aren't those earbuds the same as the silver ones below?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003196020505.html


Nops. The transparent ones are from Tingo themselves (genuine builders).


----------



## jogawag (Jan 21, 2022)

FranQL said:


> It is 15.4 mm, you know that anything you need I will help you without problem.


I bought 4 pairs of Nokia HDS3 for shell from ebay. Thank you.


----------



## jogawag

rprodrigues said:


> Nops. The transparent ones are from Tingo themselves (genuine builders).


Are the transparent ones from Tingo better sounding than the silver DIY TG38S?


----------



## rprodrigues

jogawag said:


> Are the transparent ones from Tingo better sounding than the silver DIY TG38S?


I don't know. Sorry.


----------



## FranQL

baskingshark said:


> Beautiful stuff.
> 
> Last year was the year of the beryllium driver hypetrain, the past few months, LCP drivers are all the rage in the IEM world - eg Moondrop Aria 2021, Tin T3 Plus, DUNU Titan S.



out of that hype, forgotten, is 32 Ohm bio, which is a €5 driver that IMO is the undisputed king in that impedance....


----------



## ValSuki

3D printed earbud shell I designed and developed over the course of a few days! Its functional, tunable, and works as an earbud shell. Really happy with how it came out!! Uses an mx500 interior and qian39 fit.


----------



## Charlyro222

Beautiful implementation of the ak4497 with Velvet tecnology.

Even with dedicated firmwares.





Warm and detailed source, soulfull in in word.

On the photo with Blur 266R mx150 ST


----------



## Sam L

FranQL said:


> Hello, I reused the Nokia HDS3 shell, the only way to get them is to look for them on ebay or second-hand in a local store, they are very comfortable, I get an excellent sound in the tunings I make on them and I think they look spectacular......
> 
> here are two of my best buds, both LCP (120 Ohm and 40 Ohm)


You pics look great and the project is inspiring!


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> Are the transparent ones from Tingo better sounding than the silver DIY TG38S?


Silver Tingo shell is less prone to resonance because metallic coating and transparent shells ... well


----------



## chinmie

jogawag said:


> The "earbuds cap" product was originally designed to keep the earbuds from falling out of your ears. That's what is written on the Japanese Amazon translation.



i wonder on how (and how much) it would change the sound of the earbuds..


----------



## jogawag

chinmie said:


> i wonder on how (and how much) it would change the sound of the earbuds..



I was surprised because the sound was unexpectedly clear when I used it.
None of Amazon's 7 reviews had "sound change" as a problem, and conversely, there was one following review that "no sound change".

4.0 out of 5 stars
There was no change in the sound than I expected
Reviewed in Japan on June 19, 2020
Buy on Amazon
I bought earbuds type Bluetooth earphones before.
I bought a canal type and it wasn't used anymore
I came to use it again by purchasing and installing this
There is no particular change in the sound and it is quite good.
If anything, it will fall off quite a bit
I'm glad I bought it because I started using earphones that I hadn't used.


----------



## baskingshark

1clearhead said:


> Okay, so just convinced me on the *FENGRU Tingo TC200 original Silver 32ohm* "mmcx version". Just placed an order on Taobao.
> Thanks!
> 
> -Clear



There are 2 versions of the Tingo TC200.

The original was the good one that was hyped to the moon on some FB forums and became sold out. The manufacturer had to meet demand for new orders and they used a different shell to make the new orders. And feedback on the forums is the new shell version sounds bad, or that QC (unit variation) killed it. Definitely different shell housing will result in different sound.

See this post:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2386473901653225/posts/2716205878680024/

FWIW, I had owned the original TC200, personally didn't like it, I thought it had good soundstage but the tonality and timbre was a bit off, sold it away. Sounded a bit weird for acoustic instruments. Haven't tried the new shelled version though.


----------



## 1clearhead

baskingshark said:


> There are 2 versions of the Tingo TC200.
> 
> The original was the good one that was hyped to the moon on some FB forums and became sold out. The manufacturer had to meet demand for new orders and they used a different shell to make the new orders. And feedback on the forums is the new shell version sounds bad, or that QC (unit variation) killed it. Definitely different shell housing will result in different sound.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your comment and thoughts. I hope I'll like them once they arrive at my home.

-Clear


----------



## tendou

axhng said:


> unfortunately have not tried the faaeal datura pro before.


Thanks lol. The shells looks kinda similar


----------



## syazwaned

Has anyone heard about this brand, Winsound. Quite popular in China but not about the sound quality.


----------



## jogawag

I haven't bought the NiceHCK EB2S yet, but I'm sure there are others besides @axhng who have bought it and have already done the burn-in.
How does it fit and what does it sound like compared to the ME80, the old EB2 or the LBBS?

Please let me know for reference.


----------



## Charlyro222

Mine just arrived a few hours ago. 
I will listen to them this afternoon before burn in process.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jogawag said:


> I haven't bought the NiceHCK EB2S yet, but I'm sure there are others besides @axhng who have bought it and have already done the burn-in.
> How does it fit and what does it sound like compared to the ME80, the old EB2 or the LBBS?
> 
> Please let me know for reference.


I also ordered it and will be able to compare to the ME80 and the LBBS in due time.


----------



## RikudouGoku

@jogawag Does that MX500 -> iem adapter work on other bud shapes?


----------



## jogawag (Jan 22, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> @jogawag Does that MX500 -> iem adapter work on other bud shapes?


The silicon earbuds cap adapter fits perfectly on all of the PK type / docomo type with a driver diameter of 14.8 mm, the MX500 type / smabat st-10 with a diameter of 15.4 mm, and the Ostry KC08T with a diameter of 16 mm.


----------



## Into The Light5

Ive searched up here, and i cant find comparasion (or maybe i missed it) between ty hi-z he150 and hp150s mkii, do they use the same driver? Which one offer a wider soundstage?


----------



## Star Ace (Jan 22, 2022)

To Chaconne owners-it seems my pair has imbalance issues, whereas the right channel is both louder and more consistent. At first I thought it is maybe the nature of earbuds, but I placed this right earphone on my left ear, and the difference was even more stark (despite being a violinist, I listen better and louder through my left ear.) I dread the warranty process, since Moondrop is located in China and myself in the US. I didn't "break" it and it still sounds "good" but not balanced from ear to ear. Also the problem may be recent but has been ongoing for a while. Not sure if it was this way from factory, since at first I had fit issues.

It's almost as if the left driver was faulty in some way. As the sine wave test go up, there is a lot of unevenness, and the bass in particular is much richer on the right piece.

If your Chaconnes do not have this sort of problem, I may have an issue, which is a bummer.

Note that the imbalance is not minor, and I can alleviate it only by fitting the left piece differently to the right, a bit closer to the ear. But remember that when I swapped the earpieces, the right earpiece sounded even louder, as my left ear hears better.

Have a lovely day, and enjoy your music.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Star Ace said:


> To Chaconne owners-it seems my pair has imbalance issues, whereas the right channel is both louder and more consistent. At first I thought it is maybe the nature of earbuds, but I placed this right earphone on my left ear, and the difference was even more stark (despite being a violinist, I listen better and louder through my left ear.) I dread the warranty process, since Moondrop is located in China and myself in the US. I didn't "break" it and it still sounds "good" but not balanced from ear to ear. Also the problem may be recent but has been ongoing for a while. Not sure if it was this way from factory, since at first I had fit issues.
> 
> It's almost as if the right driver was faulty in some way. As the sine wave test go up, there is a lot of unevenness, and the bass in particular is much richer on the right piece.
> 
> ...


That is a problem, you might want to talk with @MOONDROP about it.


----------



## Star Ace

RikudouGoku said:


> That is a problem, you might want to talk with @MOONDROP about it.


I imagined as much-thank you. I recently sent them a support request.

Very sorry they are behaving this way. Hope the process doesn't take as long as I think it will, as I love the pair and will miss them despite having many other options.


----------



## FranQL (Jan 22, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Those look really nice. Any first impressions of sound?



Pizen 150 Ohm "Berylium"
After a few days with these the sound is not what is expected from a berylium driver, so I decided to open them to find a better fit and see what could be wrong....

First of all, this is ad:

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKyMKUy

But I found this surprise (where is the beryllium diaphragm?):








After opening dispute the seller has answered me this

_"I think the two of you are a gang committing crimes and malicious disputes. our item is standard condition as description, 150 ohm Beryllium Dynamic Driver，If you don't like it, you should return it for a refund, instead of taking apart the headset and destroying it without our consent, we are not at fault and cannot agree to your malicious request."_

say two, so I alerted another user that I know bought them, and also opened a dispute....

Simply so that you have knowledge, and although it seems incredible, these things continue to happen... cat for a hare....


----------



## RikudouGoku

FranQL said:


> After a few days with these the sound is not what is expected from a berylium driver, so I decided to open them to find a better fit and see what could be wrong....
> 
> First of all, this is ad:
> 
> ...


Since when did you need permission to open/destroy something you paid for? 🤣


----------



## FranQL

RikudouGoku said:


> Since when did you need permission to open/destroy something you paid for? 🤣


I guess it's a norm when what's inside isn't what you paid for...


----------



## Charlyro222

jogawag said:


> I haven't bought the NiceHCK EB2S yet, but I'm sure there are others besides @axhng who have bought it and have already done the burn-in.
> How does it fit and what does it sound like compared to the ME80, the old EB2 or the LBBS?
> 
> Please let me know for reference.


After about 30 minutes of listening to EB2S, not bad for the price, but I found has too forwarded mids for my liking. 
Will compare with LBBS and tell my impresions.


----------



## waynes world

baskingshark said:


> FWIW, I had owned the original TC200, personally didn't like it, I thought it had good soundstage but the tonality and timbre was a bit off, sold it away. Sounded a bit weird for acoustic instruments. Haven't tried the new shelled version though.



For the record, I was one of those weirdos that really loved the original TC200's. Wish I could get a replacement. Oh well!


----------



## rprodrigues

FranQL said:


> Pizen 150 Ohm "Berylium"
> After a few days with these the sound is not what is expected from a berylium driver, so I decided to open them to find a better fit and see what could be wrong....
> 
> First of all, this is ad:
> ...




Well, I'm the second member of the gang, unfortunately.

Here is the listing from the genuine supplier https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=654094164743. As it may be seen, the drivers are not advertised as berry ones, as claimed by the seller on Aliexpress (Pizen).


----------



## SolaVirtus

I came across my LBBS box and snapped a pic.


----------



## Charlyro222

Complementary signatures but Nicehick EB2S is better for my tastes than LBBS, any way, Newb 32pro and 266R, 189 Blur earbuds are at least 1 or 2 steps ahead from theese.


----------



## jeejack

FranQL said:


> Pizen 150 Ohm "Berylium"
> After a few days with these the sound is not what is expected from a berylium driver, so I decided to open them to find a better fit and see what could be wrong....
> 
> First of all, this is ad:
> ...


What a shame ! I wanted a pair too


----------



## jeejack

Charlyro222 said:


> Complementary signatures but Nicehick EB2S is better for my tastes than LBBS, any way, Newb 32pro and 266R, 189 Blur earbuds are at least 1 or 2 steps ahead from theese.


That's good news !


----------



## samandhi

Star Ace said:


> To Chaconne owners-it seems my pair has imbalance issues, whereas the right channel is both louder and more consistent. At first I thought it is maybe the nature of earbuds, but I placed this right earphone on my left ear, and the difference was even more stark (despite being a violinist, I listen better and louder through my left ear.) I dread the warranty process, since Moondrop is located in China and myself in the US. I didn't "break" it and it still sounds "good" but not balanced from ear to ear. Also the problem may be recent but has been ongoing for a while. Not sure if it was this way from factory, since at first I had fit issues.
> 
> It's almost as if the left driver was faulty in some way. As the sine wave test go up, there is a lot of unevenness, and the bass in particular is much richer on the right piece.
> 
> ...


That IS a bummer! I have no issues of this nature with my Chaconne at all. I would definitely contact @ MOONDROP as suggested. Hopefully they will just get you a new pair and be done with it. 


FranQL said:


> Pizen 150 Ohm "Berylium"
> After a few days with these the sound is not what is expected from a berylium driver, so I decided to open them to find a better fit and see what could be wrong....
> 
> First of all, this is ad:
> ...


First of all, great ear! I can't abide dishonesty of this sort. I would be so angry at that point. Plus the response from the seller is absolutely ridiculous and gives other third-party sellers a bad name. You shouldn't have to take something apart just to prove what your ears are hearing. 


RikudouGoku said:


> Since when did you need permission to open/destroy something you paid for? 🤣


Totally agree. Sounds like they were mad you took it apart, because you caught them in their lie. I will stay away from that seller with a ten-foot pole.


----------



## baskingshark (Jan 22, 2022)

Star Ace said:


> I imagined as much-thank you. I recently sent them a support request.
> 
> Very sorry they are behaving this way. Hope the process doesn't take as long as I think it will, as I love the pair and will miss them despite having many other options.



The Chinese sellers are probably on a LONG holiday for chinese new year, sometimes they take weeks off work before and after the actual event (1st Feb 2022). They work very hard throughout the rest of the year, so this period (and the golden week thing) are sacrosanct breaks for them. Probably the worst times to buy stuff or ask for communications as nobody is at work.

Delays will probably be expected around now. But hope you sort out your Chaconne and get some amicable settlement!



FranQL said:


> Pizen 150 Ohm "Berylium"
> After a few days with these the sound is not what is expected from a berylium driver, so I decided to open them to find a better fit and see what could be wrong....
> 
> First of all, this is ad:
> ...





rprodrigues said:


> Well, I'm the second member of the gang, unfortunately.
> 
> Here is the listing from the genuine supplier https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=654094164743. As it may be seen, the drivers are not advertised as berry ones, as claimed by the seller on Aliexpress (Pizen).



Thanks for exposing this fraud! You guys have my deepest respect.

Actually this isn't the first time CHIFI companies pull these kind of stunts.
BGVP did this a few months back, someone opened their DN2, which purportedly had beryllium drivers and hey presto, it wasn't: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bgv...d-new-ba-series.894331/page-327#post-15987274

BGVP had to backtrack and recall the product. In fact they stopped selling the DN2 after and supposedly sacked someone in charge.

During that period, every company and their cats and dogs were trying to ride on the beryllium hypetrain and it was sexy to market your IEM/earbud as containing "beryllium drivers". I don't have the skills to open stuff like @rprodrigues and @FranQL do, but surely I have tried some so-called beryllium IEMs that sounded worse than a conventional DD driver. Probably a lot of these CHIFI are using the "beryllium" term as a marketing gimmick to stand-out from the tough competition.


----------



## Sam L

Where are you guys getting the eb2s from? I can't find it on aliexpress


----------



## axhng

Sam L said:


> Where are you guys getting the eb2s from? I can't find it on aliexpress


they are in the form of lucky bag now. supposedly original retail price is 27USD, but going for 17 now. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003788871058.html


----------



## baskingshark

tendou said:


> have you heard of faaeal datura pro? If yes how is it compared?



The EB2S I bought has just arrived in my country today, hope to receive it sometime over the next few days. I have the Faaeal Datura Pro somewhere in a drawer, will take it out and do some comparisons and let u know.


----------



## jogawag (Jan 23, 2022)

Sam L said:


> Where are you guys getting the eb2s from? I can't find it on aliexpress



The eb2s is in Lucky Bag Fukubukuro.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003788871058.html

EDIT:
Sorry, this was too late information.


----------



## jeejack (Jan 23, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> The Chinese sellers are probably on a LONG holiday for chinese new year, sometimes they take weeks off work before and after the actual event (1st Feb 2022). They work very hard throughout the rest of the year, so this period (and the golden week thing) are sacrosanct breaks for them. Probably the worst times to buy stuff or ask for communications as nobody is at work.
> 
> Delays will probably be expected around now. But hope you sort out your Chaconne and get some amicable settlement!
> 
> ...


I'm waiting for an answer from you about this scam!
Good job bro !


----------



## axhng

baskingshark said:


> The EB2S I bought has just arrived in my country today, hope to receive it sometime over the next few days. I have the Faaeal Datura Pro somewhere in a drawer, will take it out and do some comparisons and let u know.


will be interesting to hear how it stacks up against the HZSound Bell Rhyme too since price seems kinda in the same ball park. Oh, and there is the smabat svara 1 that is around that price too i think. Seems like quite a few new stuff in this price range.


----------



## yoowan

After reading the many positive reviews of newbsound 32pro I’ve placed an order with @irv003 and received the earbuds last week. I must say I’m very impressed after listening to them extensively. These are amazing earbuds. They’re full and natural sounding with the best bass I have ever heard in an earbud. Double basses (I mostly listen to classical and jazz) have real heft to them. The greatest compliment I can give, is that these pull me into the music and let me forget to listen critically. I hope this honeymoon lasts forever!


----------



## RikudouGoku

axhng said:


> will be interesting to hear how it stacks up against the HZSound Bell Rhyme too since price seems kinda in the same ball park. Oh, and there is the smabat svara 1 that is around that price too i think. Seems like quite a few new stuff in this price range.


I got the Svara coming with the EB2S.   

Too bad shipping will probably be delayed due to CNY....


----------



## jogawag

From Earbuds Paradise by @ClieOS
NiceHCK EB2S: Warm and smooth, well built, good budget entry level earbud.


----------



## calcatreppola

yoowan said:


> After reading the many positive reviews of newbsound 32pro I’ve placed an order with @irv003 and received the earbuds last week. I must say I’m very impressed after listening to them extensively. These are amazing earbuds. They’re full and natural sounding with the best bass I have ever heard in an earbud. Double basses (I mostly listen to classical and jazz) have real heft to them. The greatest compliment I can give, is that these pull me into the music and let me forget to listen critically. I hope this honeymoon lasts forever!


very interesting, thank you...
I listen to classical and jazz too, may I ask you what is your gear, what are you used to? I think I am close to my musical happyness with xd-05 bal (being rolling the opamps, though), niceHCK ebx21, Rose Maria II (and monk lite, together with akg k309 for non critical listening). Still I am always curious to try something new... this rabbit hoole is soooooooo deeeeeeeeeeep. The sound of my Blur is too forward, no deepness at all, although very precise in rendering sound, especially voices. (Probably with lack of separation.) Can you tell us more about your feelings with the newbsound? thank you


----------



## Charlyro222

yoowan said:


> After reading the many positive reviews of newbsound 32pro I’ve placed an order with @irv003 and received the earbuds last week. I must say I’m very impressed after listening to them extensively. These are amazing earbuds. They’re full and natural sounding with the best bass I have ever heard in an earbud. Double basses (I mostly listen to classical and jazz) have real heft to them. The greatest compliment I can give, is that these pull me into the music and let me forget to listen critically. I hope this honeymoon lasts forever!


Are amazing, for sure, but if you like vocal jazz, specially female voices, like me,  Heaven is on Blur´s side.


----------



## Charlyro222 (Jan 23, 2022)

calcatreppola said:


> very interesting, thank you...
> I listen to classical and jazz too, may I ask you what is your gear, what are you used to? I think I am close to my musical happyness with xd-05 bal (being rolling the opamps, though), niceHCK ebx21, Rose Maria II (and monk lite, together with akg k309 for non critical listening). Still I am always curious to try something new... this rabbit hoole is soooooooo deeeeeeeeeeep. The sound of my Blur is too forward, no deepness at all, although very precise in rendering sound, especially voices. (Probably with lack of separation.) Can you tell us more about your feelings with the newbsound? thank you


Newb 32pro and 189, 266R Blur models are complementary.
I could say newb is on the safe side, but 266R mx150, now with new tunning, are outstanding for jazz.


----------



## jogawag (Jan 24, 2022)

Ah, I know there's been a lot of "blur, blur" in this thread recently, but I'd like to see one of those typical model frequency response graphs posted for reference (preferably with LBSS or Newbsound 32pro or RW-2000) to show its goodness.


----------



## baskingshark

jogawag said:


> Ah, I know there's been a lot of "blur, blur" in this thread recently, but I'd like to see one of those typical model frequency response graphs posted for reference (preferably with LBSS or Newbsound 32pro or RW-2000) to show its goodness.



I have a IEC711 Coupler with a earbud adapter, but I realize that the graphs are only useful for the same setup.

They vary a lot across different rigs and may not be comparable across different users as such. Little changes like insertion depth, using different foams etc all can change the graphs tremendously.

Maybe some other Measurebators have some advise on how to fix this haha.


----------



## jogawag

I searched and found a single FR graph of blur MX64, but it's good that it's close to the Harman curve...


----------



## Charlyro222

jogawag said:


> I searched and found a single FR graph of blur MX64, but it's good that it's close to the Harman curve...


That's an OFC model that is discontinued, a bit dark for my tastes, the new line 189 and 266r are far better for my tastes.


----------



## emusic13

That link had all 3 models


----------



## jogawag (Jan 24, 2022)

emusic13 said:


> That link had all 3 models


Thank you!

>That link had all 3 models
What is "that link"? Tell me url of that link.

And if the curve of the FR graph of the blur MX64 is also aligned at 1kHz, it is good because there are much bass of the blur MX64 and it looks the closest to the Harman curve.
Hmmm, is the recent blur better than this?
By the way, how much does blur cost about US $?

EDIT:
I found the blur's cost is $75-350 at @WoodyLuvr's post.


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> Measurebators


Seriously LOL'ed!


----------



## emusic13

jogawag said:


> >That link had all 3 models
> What is "that link"? Tell me url of that link.
> 
> And if the curve of the FR graph of the blur MX64 is also aligned at 1kHz, it is good because there are much bass of the blur MX64 and it looks the closest to the Harman curve.
> ...


https://tgx78.squig.link/

Those are measurements by @tgx78


----------



## jogawag

emusic13 said:


> https://tgx78.squig.link/
> 
> Those are measurements by @tgx78


Thank you!

However, the url was written in small letters at the bottom right of the graph. I didn't notice it.


----------



## Richiyaado

I see that the new Rose Technics Martini earbuds are now available from Penon Audio. Does anyone know the diameter of these buds? My dinky ears won't tolerate anything larger than 16mm or so. Thanks!


----------



## Sam L

calcatreppola said:


> very interesting, thank you...
> I listen to classical and jazz too, may I ask you what is your gear, what are you used to? I think I am close to my musical happyness with xd-05 bal (being rolling the opamps, though), niceHCK ebx21, Rose Maria II (and monk lite, together with akg k309 for non critical listening). Still I am always curious to try something new... this rabbit hoole is soooooooo deeeeeeeeeeep. The sound of my Blur is too forward, no deepness at all, although very precise in rendering sound, especially voices. (Probably with lack of separation.) Can you tell us more about your feelings with the newbsound? thank you


Classical lover here too, mostly piano and violin concerti along with some common symphony cycles (beethoven, brahms, mahler, etc). The two standout buds for me are the moondrop chaconne and the datura pro (compensated to my target curve). I have the Maria II as well, but don't use it regularly for classical music.


----------



## Sam L

baskingshark said:


> I have a IEC711 Coupler with a earbud adapter, but I realize that the graphs are only useful for the same setup.
> 
> They vary a lot across different rigs and may not be comparable across different users as such. Little changes like insertion depth, using different foams etc all can change the graphs tremendously.
> 
> Maybe some other Measurebators have some advise on how to fix this haha.


an that's only some of the issue -- the hardware audio path will also dramatically affect the measurement results. Also, not only should the mic be calibrated, but the sound card/dac needs to be checked carefully for calibration.


----------



## Sam L

jogawag said:


> Thank you!
> 
> >That link had all 3 models
> What is "that link"? Tell me url of that link.
> ...


in my opinion Harman curve is a disaster for earbuds. When I first started, I used to compensate all my earbuds to Harman via the autoeq project -- sounded terrible, accounted for a good 9 months of trying dozen's of target curves before I ended up with v1.5.


----------



## Sam L

Richiyaado said:


> I see that the new Rose Technics Martini earbuds are now available from Penon Audio. Does anyone know the diameter of these buds? My dinky ears won't tolerate anything larger than 16mm or so. Thanks!


interesting... the steel and brass construction might make it a heavy bud? I hope someone pulls the trigger on one and share observations!


----------



## cqtek

Well, I just got my NiceHCK EB2S today and I agree with their warm profile, with smooth bass, a good level of exuberance in the mids, with good definition and clarity. The treble has an adequate level of liveliness. The sound feels spacious and with a very good sense of openness. I really like its design and also the cable, although it is a bit stiff. The ergonomics are very good, with a very light weight.
The old EB2s didn't have very good quality control, I think NiceHCK will have improved in this respect.

They are not as clear or transparent as the Smabat M0s, but the mids are more full-bodied, you feel their warmth is greater.


----------



## samandhi

Sam L said:


> Classical lover here too, mostly piano and violin concerti along with some common symphony cycles (beethoven, brahms, mahler, etc). The two standout buds for me are the moondrop chaconne and the datura pro (compensated to my target curve). I have the Maria II as well, but don't use it regularly for classical music.


Sounds like you have a fantastic trio going there (though I have only heard 2 of the 3). 


cqtek said:


> Well, I just got my NiceHCK EB2S today and I agree with their warm profile, with smooth bass, a good level of exuberance in the mids, with good definition and clarity. The treble has an adequate level of liveliness. The sound feels spacious and with a very good sense of openness. I really like its design and also the cable, although it is a bit stiff. The ergonomics are very good, with a very light weight.
> The old EB2s didn't have very good quality control, I think NiceHCK will have improved in this respect.
> 
> They are not as clear or transparent as the Smabat M0s, but the mids are more full-bodied, you feel their warmth is greater.


That is absolutely great to hear! I don't have any warm(ish) buds at all. All the ones I have are either shrill, or bordering on (not that that is always a bad thing). I lost track of where mine are at, so I can only assume they are in country since China Post no longer tracks them.


----------



## ilmothedude

Rose Martini looks really nice! Would be interesting to know how they perform compared to Maria. I've now spent over a month with my Rose Maria and I really like them! That soundstage and imaging are still so impressive. I haven't listened much of anything else after I got them. That signature works really well with Xuelin ihifi1969 which is more of musical than analytical dap.


----------



## artpiggo

I am surprised by the Rose Martini price tag. It is lower than Maria. So is it their TOTL or will there be more?


----------



## povidlo

ilmothedude said:


> Rose Martini looks really nice! Would be interesting to know how they perform compared to Maria. I've now spent over a month with my Rose Maria and I really like them! That soundstage and imaging are still so impressive. I haven't listened much of anything else after I got them. That signature works really well with Xuelin ihifi1969 which is more of musical than analytical dap.


I love my Maria (1). What impresses me most is how coherent _she_ sounds with two drivers. Rose Technics (and its university student founders) did a heck of a tuning job. I like to listen to Maria with a warm source, like Sony, that lifts low mids and thickens the sound. Other dual driver earbuds I have, 1More E1008, Xiaomi BRE01JY, Dunu Alpha 1, are pretty awful in comparison.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 24, 2022)

artpiggo said:


> I am surprised by the Rose Martini price tag. It is lower than Maria. So is it their TOTL or will there be more?


_The *Rose Martini* is a different model, though most definitely playing on the same 'tuning pipe' design theme as the Maxim "*referencing classic Japanese design elements*". Looks to be a scaled, more mobile, version of the Maxim with shorter stem (tuning pipes).

The *'Maxim' Project* is still in the works but it may be taking more of a flagship (higher tier) approach as per Rose's latest IG posts: *IG post #1* and *IG post #2*. Also, 'Maxim' may only be the project name until the design and sound is finalized and a more fitting name is determined._​
From what I could gather from *@ClieOS* and from other sources is that the Martini is simply a middle-tiered stop-gap to hold us off before the new flagship *Rose Technics Maxim Project (??Ω)* launches at a later date. But that may be totally incorrect and/or completely changed now as I have seen very little concerning Maxim as of late...


----------



## Kamen555

So out of what I received recently: Monk SM, Qian 39, LBBS n Yincrow RW9... 

I keep going back to the RW9.

Good ol MX500 shell.

The tuning is... I wouldn't call it warm... Balanced? Accurate? It's just a good all rounder with good bass and enough sparkle up top to make me notice the music. I'm especially digging it with Rock music.

I'm a yincrow fan now? Wonder what their higher tier stuff sound like, but maybe not worth it unless I upgrade my source...


----------



## Penon (Mar 25, 2022)

Hello everyone,

Rose Technics' new earbud - *Rose Martini *

Both 3.5mm audio and  4.4mm balanced are available now !

https://penonaudio.com/rose-martini.html


----------



## jogawag

Kamen555 said:


> So out of what I received recently: Monk SM, Qian 39, LBBS n Yincrow RW9...
> 
> I keep going back to the RW9.
> 
> ...



You can try newbsound 32pro.


----------



## Star Ace

baskingshark said:


> The Chinese sellers are probably on a LONG holiday for chinese new year, sometimes they take weeks off work before and after the actual event (1st Feb 2022). They work very hard throughout the rest of the year, so this period (and the golden week thing) are sacrosanct breaks for them. Probably the worst times to buy stuff or ask for communications as nobody is at work.
> 
> Delays will probably be expected around now. But hope you sort out your Chaconne and get some amicable settlement!


It seems Moondrop want me to deal with it through the store, but IME said store does not like to deal with warranties themselves after 30 days have passed, stating it's "faster" through the company. It probably is for companies such as Campfire Audio, but I doubt so for Moondrop. Now I have to tell the store the bad news, and see if they want to bounce back the ball to Moondrop, making the process longer than it should be.

At least Moondrop replied by Tuesday, January 25.

Anyone has had similar issues with warranties from China? Do stores in US handle it internally? Do not mean to make look bad either Moondrop or my local NYC store-just curious.


----------



## baskingshark

Star Ace said:


> It seems Moondrop want me to deal with it through the store, but IME said store does not like to deal with warranties themselves after 30 days have passed, stating it's "faster" through the company. It probably is for companies such as Campfire Audio, but I doubt so for Moondrop. Now I have to tell the store the bad news, and see if they want to bounce back the ball to Moondrop, making the process longer than it should be.
> 
> At least Moondrop replied by Tuesday, January 25.
> 
> Anyone has had similar issues with warranties from China? Do stores in US handle it internally? Do not mean to make look bad either Moondrop or my local NYC store-just curious.



Usually the manufacturers will push u back to the store one bought the gear from. Some of these stores then try delaying tactics until the warranty timeline runs out. I guess just be firm and stand your ground. There's a Moondrop rep here on headfi, maybe can try messaging them too?

Anyways, returning stuff to China is a big hassle, sometimes the transport fees cost as much as the IEM/earbud itself.


----------



## ValSuki

Hey all! 
I have a few earbud projects in mind but lately some communities who have known me made jokes on this, but i am going to develop a planar earbud.

_*Why? *_
Well, simply because it hasnt been done with being build up from the ground up! I want to create a completely original ear friendly shell similar to the mx500 and a brand new designed face plate to increase bass. Another reason is that @ClieOS development and work on doing his own versions have seriously helped in idea making and performance on how I can do this and approach it. I will be using a PLA printer to prototype this.

_*How?*_
Like mentioned before, I am going to design the earbud from the ground up, starting with the planar of choice (@captione ty for finding this!) with this 14.2mm planar speaker. The face plate will be adjusted and altered in order to fix bass issues as from ClieOS' work, the holes in an mx500 faceplate is simply too small. This limits the bass flow and I will be spending some time tuning the drivers with the shells and material. Input will be greatly appreciated!

_*Have you done this before?*_
Nope! But I have experience in product design and tuning for earbuds, though im no tuning master like Wong. I will do my best however.





Obligatory mascot thinking about this


----------



## RikudouGoku

ValSuki said:


> Hey all!
> I have a few earbud projects in mind but lately some communities who have known me made jokes on this, but i am going to develop a planar earbud.
> 
> _*Why? *_
> ...


Looking forward to that!

As well as your Qian39/MX500 hybrid (DIYian p2) coming to me atm.


----------



## yoowan

calcatreppola said:


> very interesting, thank you...
> I listen to classical and jazz too, may I ask you what is your gear, what are you used to? I think I am close to my musical happyness with xd-05 bal (being rolling the opamps, though), niceHCK ebx21, Rose Maria II (and monk lite, together with akg k309 for non critical listening). Still I am always curious to try something new... this rabbit hoole is soooooooo deeeeeeeeeeep. The sound of my Blur is too forward, no deepness at all, although very precise in rendering sound, especially voices. (Probably with lack of separation.) Can you tell us more about your feelings with the newbsound? thank you


Earbuds, iems, dac/amp (dongles), cables… The rabbit hole is indeed very deep. Concerning Newbsound. I’ve put on donut foams to attenuate the bass slightly. At the moment I  prefer listening to them with my Fiio BTR5. The Fiio is strangely more musical with these buds than my technically more proficient Earmen Sparrow. Bass as said is astonishing. Voices are also impressive. Cymbals have a natural decay. Soundstage and separation is very good. The real value of hifi equipment is almost never equal to the sum of its parts. In this case I no longer keep on pondering how bass, mids, treble, separation etc. are doing because these buds make me listen to the music.


----------



## samandhi

povidlo said:


> I love my Maria (1). What impresses me most is how coherent _she_ sounds with two drivers. Rose Technics (and its university student founders) did a heck of a tuning job. I like to listen to Maria with a warm source, like Sony, that lifts low mids and thickens the sound. Other dual driver earbuds I have, 1More E1008, Xiaomi BRE01JY, Dunu Alpha 1, are pretty awful in comparison.


WOW! A fellow Dunu Alpha 1 owner. For me the Dunu are a better all-rounder because they are like a lite version of the Maria II, but without that ear splitting upper-mid/lower treble. In fairness, I don't have anything (source-wise) that is warm to use them on. Though that could be changing very soon. iBasso is releasing (at some point) a new amp card that will be a tube amp. I am hoping that it will be much warmer because the Maria II is, otherwise, superior in every other way.


ValSuki said:


> Hey all!
> I have a few earbud projects in mind but lately some communities who have known me made jokes on this, but i am going to develop a planar earbud.
> 
> _*Why? *_
> ...


OMG! I am so in all the way. I LOVE planar sound, and TWS and earbuds are the only thing left that I need to have a good planar sound with. 

- You build it, and they will come - 

P.S. Love the mascot. Val the assassin kitty??? Or is it Val the social distancing kitty??? hehe


----------



## forestitalia

I received a pair of Monk Zen 2.0, boys there is no way a portable device can drive those!


----------



## baskingshark (Jan 25, 2022)

ValSuki said:


> Hey all!
> I have a few earbud projects in mind but lately some communities who have known me made jokes on this, but i am going to develop a planar earbud.
> 
> _*Why? *_
> ...



Good luck!

Tis an ambitious project, especially since planars are a different ball game versus conventional drivers. But I think it will standout from the run of the mill stuff if pulled off successfully! If you sell them let us know!

Generally planars are power hungry beasts, so I think the market segment to sell them are very different from the casual peeps who just use low powered smartphones.


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> Good luck!
> 
> Tis an ambitious project, especially since planars are a different ball game versus conventional drivers. But I think it will standout from the run of the mill stuff if pulled off successfully! If you sell them let us know!
> 
> Generally planars are power hungry beasts, so I think the market segment to sell them are very different from the casual peeps who just use low powered smartphones.


oh, I doubt this would be cheap. 

The driver we are looking at alone is over 100 usd.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002397810175.html


----------



## ValSuki

samandhi said:


> OMG! I am so in all the way. I LOVE planar sound, and TWS and earbuds are the only thing left that I need to have a good planar sound with.
> 
> - You build it, and they will come -
> 
> P.S. Love the mascot. Val the assassin kitty??? Or is it Val the social distancing kitty??? hehe



Guess a first for everything!
Thank you! Val is based off my profile picture to show my love for cats, and also the scarf is something i wear everyday 



baskingshark said:


> Good luck!
> 
> Tis an ambitious project, especially since planars are a different ball game versus conventional drivers. But I think it will standout from the run of the mill stuff if pulled off successfully! If you sell them let us know!
> 
> Generally planars are power hungry beasts, so I think the market segment to sell them are very different from the casual peeps who just use low powered smartphones.



I absolutely will! If this project is a success, I am going to sell these but it wont be cheap as what @RikudouGoku said, they cost most a good amount...


----------



## samandhi

RikudouGoku said:


> oh, I doubt this would be cheap.
> 
> The driver we are looking at alone is over 100 usd.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002397810175.html


Yeah, but with a good driver, and tuned well, they would be worth it IMO. 


baskingshark said:


> Good luck!
> 
> Tis an ambitious project, especially since planars are a different ball game versus conventional drivers. But I think it will standout from the run of the mill stuff if pulled off successfully! If you sell them let us know!
> 
> Generally planars are power hungry beasts, so I think the market segment to sell them are very different from the casual peeps who just use low powered smartphones.


I agree, and can see why this hasn't really been tackled to this point. But with DAPs getting more and more powerful, I think it is a good time to implement such an earbud. 

I love going to threads on here for things like the 7Hz Timeless only to see most people on there who have never heard planars before, being amazed at the different sound they produce.  Once upon a time, one had to mortgage their house to afford a decent pair of planars (let alone good ones), but nowadays the tech is getting cheaper where all can enjoy them.


----------



## Leonid56

samandhi said:


> Yeah, but with a good driver, and tuned well, they would be worth it IMO.
> 
> I agree, and can see why this hasn't really been tackled to this point. But with DAPs getting more and more powerful, I think it is a good time to implement such an earbud.
> 
> I love going to threads on here for things like the 7Hz Timeless only to see most people on there who have never heard planars before, being amazed at the different sound they produce.  Once upon a time, one had to mortgage their house to afford a decent pair of planars (let alone good ones), but nowadays the tech is getting cheaper where all can enjoy them.


Sorry, bad Google translation. What kind of damper did you install?  Y1-Y6?


----------



## povidlo

samandhi said:


> WOW! A fellow Dunu Alpha 1 owner. For me the Dunu are a better all-rounder because they are like a lite version of the Maria II, but without that ear splitting upper-mid/lower treble. In fairness, I don't have anything (source-wise) that is warm to use them on. Though that could be changing very soon. iBasso is releasing (at some point) a new amp card that will be a tube amp. I am hoping that it will be much warmer because the Maria II is, otherwise, superior in every other way.


It's a good idea to try your Maria with a warm source. You could also try to EQ and raise low mids to add warmth on one of your existing sources if possible. 

In regards to Alpha 1, glad you enjoy them- that's what counts. I was very excited to get them myself. I think they do have stand-out almost IEM-like strong mid-bass, which is rare for earbuds. 

I've tried using these thin foamies, shared earlier in the thread, and they have helped to improve clarity through the mids on Alpha 1. (These are actually currently my favorite foamies, preferred over Hiegi, on most earbuds in the rotation. Their material is much less dense than regular foamies. I highly recommend everybody to try them out if you haven't already!)


----------



## RikudouGoku

povidlo said:


> It's a good idea to try your Maria with a warm source. You could also try to EQ and raise low mids to add warmth on one of your existing sources if possible.
> 
> In regards to Alpha 1, glad you enjoy them- that's what counts. I was very excited to get them myself. I think they do have stand-out almost IEM-like strong mid-bass, which is rare for earbuds.
> 
> I've tried using these thin foamies, shared earlier in the thread, and they have helped to improve clarity through the mids on Alpha 1. (These are actually currently my favorite foamies, preferred over Hiegi, on most earbuds in the rotation. Their material is much less dense than regular foamies. I highly recommend everybody to try them out if you haven't already!)


Regarding those low density foams, how are they comfort wise? I got the trig rain super low density foams and they are horrible in comfort...could use them as a body scrubber lol.


----------



## Leonid56

Leonid56 said:


> Извините, плохой перевод в Google. Какой демпфер вы установили?


Sorry I didn't go there.


----------



## povidlo

RikudouGoku said:


> Regarding those low density foams, how are they comfort wise? I got the trig rain super low density foams and they are horrible in comfort...could use them as a body scrubber lol.


They do look like sand paper  Personally I have had zero issues with them comfort-wise, no itching or anything of that sort.


----------



## samandhi

Leonid56 said:


> Sorry, bad Google translation. What kind of damper did you install?  Y1-Y6?


I am not sure what you are asking here, but I was referring to putting an orthodynamic or planar magnet speaker into an earbud.


povidlo said:


> It's a good idea to try your Maria with a warm source. You could also try to EQ and raise low mids to add warmth on one of your existing sources if possible.
> 
> In regards to Alpha 1, glad you enjoy them- that's what counts. I was very excited to get them myself. I think they do have stand-out almost IEM-like strong mid-bass, which is rare for earbuds.
> 
> I've tried using these thin foamies, shared earlier in the thread, and they have helped to improve clarity through the mids on Alpha 1. (These are actually currently my favorite foamies, preferred over Hiegi, on most earbuds in the rotation. Their material is much less dense than regular foamies. I highly recommend everybody to try them out if you haven't already!)


I have tried doing some EQ, but I can't find a good compromise where I don't lose something very important for the sound. In most cases EQing them loses a lot of that wonderfully huge soundstage, and imaging. The good news is that they aren't going anywhere, and I will have a tube amp of some sort one day, and I think they may become the star of the show at that point.

That was my love for them. They have a sound like IEM, but the soundstage/imaging of an earbud. I wouldn't be so in awe of them at their original $200 price probably, but I was able to procure the last 2 pair from a seller on Amazon for $39. In that price range, I lost nothing whether I liked them or not really. Turns out I really do like them.


----------



## ilmothedude

povidlo said:


> I love my Maria (1). What impresses me most is how coherent _she_ sounds with two drivers. Rose Technics (and its university student founders) did a heck of a tuning job. I like to listen to Maria with a warm source, like Sony, that lifts low mids and thickens the sound. Other dual driver earbuds I have, 1More E1008, Xiaomi BRE01JY, Dunu Alpha 1, are pretty awful in comparison.


I agree, amaizingly coherent tuning! Works indeed well with warmer source. I sometimes like to listen my Maria with a bit of crossfeed as it creates more sense of depth thus making midrange little less forward. Fit is still a little gripe though as sometimes they just don't want to stay in correct position.


----------



## Star Ace

Good news, I went to audio46 today to buy a balanced cable, and told them what Moondrop had emailed to me (actually read it to them). They told me after an internal conversation that it was fine for me to bring my defective Chaconne. Going to return tomorrow with it, and expect to hopefully have a new pair soon.


----------



## Charlyro222

Today VE Monk SM arrived with some other earbuds.


----------



## samandhi

Star Ace said:


> Good news, I went to audio46 today to buy a balanced cable, and told them what Moondrop had emailed to me (actually read it to them). They told me after an internal conversation that it was fine for me to bring my defective Chaconne. Going to return tomorrow with it, and expect to hopefully have a new pair soon.


OUTSTANDING!


----------



## povidlo

ilmothedude said:


> I agree, amaizingly coherent tuning! Works indeed well with warmer source. I sometimes like to listen my Maria with a bit of crossfeed as it creates more sense of depth thus making midrange little less forward. Fit is still a little gripe though as sometimes they just don't want to stay in correct position.


Have you tried to wear Maria around the ear, like IEMs? Some prefer to wear her like that since cable earhooks may help to stabilize the fit.

I wear Maria normally cable down, with a skinny silicone ring and a thin foamie.


----------



## samandhi

povidlo said:


> Have you tried to wear Maria around the ear, like IEMs? Some prefer to wear her like that since cable earhooks may help to stabilize the fit.
> 
> I wear Maria normally cable down, with a skinny silicone ring and a thin foamie.


I use these on the Maria II:


----------



## TheRunningIr0n

Charlyro222 said:


> Today VE Monk SM arrived with some other earbuds.



I recently got the M2s pro too. Upon first listen I was surprised at how well it performed relative to my m1 pro. The stock tuning of the titanium driver is balanced enough by itself without side-grading to the other driver modules. That being said, curiosity got the best of me and I ordered the 15.4mm 'Superpoint' fiber drivers for it. I was hoping that they would end up having a tonality similar to my ZMF Auteur but in earbud form. Sure enough that's what I'm experiencing with the exceptions of stronger bass impact and a small amount of midbass bloat.

A small circular damper screen embedded into the back wall can be swapped out to adjust the bass response but I haven't tried it yet. My guess is that the stock damper is the 'type 1' but I'll have to wait until the seller is back from holiday to confirm. One of the reviews on Ali mentions a resonance peak in the lower treble caused by the shell so I stuck a small piece of foam in there to compensate. Another thing to note is that the Superpoint driver seems to be very inefficient and at only 100Ω it ends up being roughly as hard to drive as my 365Ω PT2021.


----------



## Carrow

got a pair of Venture Electronics ZOEs for sale in signature due to almost certainly being laid off in March. ****ing gutted I have to sell these but I'm sure someone here would like them


----------



## Star Ace

Star Ace said:


> Good news, I went to audio46 today to buy a balanced cable, and told them what Moondrop had emailed to me (actually read it to them). They told me after an internal conversation that it was fine for me to bring my defective Chaconne. Going to return tomorrow with it, and expect to hopefully have a new pair soon.


Trying my new Chaconne replacement, 1st tested with test sine waves, and the drivers are evenly matched, sounding flat and wonderful again. 

Kudos to Moondrop Labs *and* audio46 for not making the warranty process a big hassle. A new, old audio toy to enjoy anew.


----------



## baskingshark

K here are some short impressions of the NiceHCK EB2S I bought from Aliexpress.



Fit is good, very light, ergonomic and comfortable. Build seems sturdy enough.



The cable has minimal microphonics but it is a bit stiff and tends to unwind very easily.

Accessories wise:
- a small carry pouch
- 3 sets of full foams - surprisingly no donut foams were provided
- anime waifu postcard -* the most important accessory, more important than the earbud itself!*



Tested with a Khadas Tone Board -> Schiit Asgard 3. This set is easy to drive.

In terms of sound, the EB2S are a warm and smooth set. Well balanced, good coherency is present. The sound lies towards more analoguish than analytical.

Timbre is excellent. Technicalities wise, soundstage is very good, very open sounding set. Micro-details, imaging, instrument separation and clarity are very decent at this price point but perhaps not class leading.

Bass is just a tinge north of neutral and mid-bass focused, with a slight sub-bass tickle, like most run-of-the-mill earbuds. Bass isn't too textured, bass speed is moderate, with no mid-bass bleed. Lower mids are quite lush, with a slight boost in the upper mids. They are not too shouty unless played at high volumes (fletcher munson curve), or on poorly recorded material. Treble is quite well rendered, with minimal sibilance. Note edges are a tinge blunted and smoothened, this aids in giving a mellow sound signature.

*Quick comparisons versus HZSound Bell Rhyme and FAAEAL Datura Pro:*
The NiceHCK EB2S are the undisputed king over the other 2 cause of the anime packaging, enuff said. K jokes aside, compared to the *FAAEAL Datura Pro *(I think one member was asking about these buds), without EQ/mods to the Datura Pro, the EB2S beats the Datura Pro in almost every department - timbre, soundstage, imaging, instrument separation, clarity, micro-details. The EB2S also have more bass extension and quantity than the Datura Pro. No contest between the 2, I'd take the EB2S any day, assuming you are not gonna EQ the Datura Pro.

Now compared to the recently released *HZSound Bell Rhyme*, the competition is tougher. I would consider these 2 to be sidegrades. The Bell Rhyme have a smaller soundstage but slightly better imaging, micro-details, clarity and instrument separation. The EB2S and HZSound Bell Rhyme both have good tonality and timbre are asking which is better is kind of splitting hairs. I think you can't go wrong with selecting either set.

In a nutshell, the EB2S are quite a nice budget pair of earbuds. Probably those seasoned earbud fanatics in this unending rabbithole have a more expensive or technical set in their arsenal, but I would give the EB2S a recommendation for those new to the hobby who are looking for an all-rounder set with a well balanced tonality. Price-to-performance ratio is high, and they are a comfortable, lush, smooth and warm set suited for longer listening sessions. *Oh ya, and one gets an anime packaging and anime waifu post card with the EB2S, so that in itself is worth the purchase price.*

Will provide a formal review soon!


----------



## arar (Jan 28, 2022)

Found the NiceHCK DIY MX500s I ordered along with the Yincrow X6s last year. I might do some comparison listening later on, but immediate reaction when I put these on was that I definitely prefer these. I don't know what it is about the X6s, but they sound kind of harsh and grainy to me. Actually wondering if my pair might be defective in some way, considering all the love they get. The MX500s sound very smooth, and with a bump to the low mids to add some warmth and body to the male vocals in particular, I think they sound pretty incredible. I'm constantly shocked by how, like, tangible and meaty and BIG the sound these tiny plastic earbuds can create really is.

Boy do they feel flimsy, though. Maybe I'll get an extra pair or two just in case.


----------



## jogawag

arar said:


> Found the NiceHCK DIY MX500s I ordered along with the Yincrow X6s last year. I might do some comparison listening later on, but immediate reaction when I put these on was that I definitely prefer these. I don't know what it is about the X6s, but they sound kind of harsh and grainy to me. Actually wondering if my pair might be defective in some way, considering all the love they get. The MX500s sound very smooth, and with a bump to the low mids to add some warmth and body to the male vocals in particular, I think they sound pretty incredible. I'm constantly shocked by how, like, tangible and meaty and BIG the sound these tiny plastic earbuds can create really is.
> 
> Boy do they feel flimsy, though. Maybe I'll get an extra pair or two just in case.


I heard that the NiceHCK DIY MX500's driver is EMX500 really.
So I'm convinced they sound great.


----------



## Alteria

arar said:


> Found the NiceHCK DIY MX500s I ordered along with the Yincrow X6s last year. I might do some comparison listening later on, but immediate reaction when I put these on was that I definitely prefer these. I don't know what it is about the X6s, but they sound kind of harsh and grainy to me. Actually wondering if my pair might be defective in some way, considering all the love they get. The MX500s sound very smooth, and with a bump to the low mids to add some warmth and body to the male vocals in particular, I think they sound pretty incredible. I'm constantly shocked by how, like, tangible and meaty and BIG the sound these tiny plastic earbuds can create really is.
> 
> Boy do they feel flimsy, though. Maybe I'll get an extra pair or two just in case.


I definitely prefer the NiceHCK DIY MX500 as well. The X6 just sounds too dark for me in some of the songs I listen to.


----------



## Charlyro222

Just received from Thailand. 
A long wait since I ordered


----------



## jogawag

Charlyro222 said:


> Just received from Thailand.
> A long wait since I ordered


It's a bit of a spooky shell.


----------



## InvisibleInk

jogawag said:


> It's a bit of a spooky shell.


 Good for Metal


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> K here are some short impressions of the NiceHCK EB2S I bought from Aliexpress.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Excellent write-up on these. I am still awaiting mine but looking forward to them. These might be the perfect daily driver/beater for me. Most of my higher end buds aren't great for the daily rough-and-tumble day to day.

Would you call these dark then? Again, might be great for me. I don't really have anything warmish in my collection.


----------



## fonkepala

Charlyro222 said:


> Just received from Thailand.
> A long wait since I ordered


Looks wicked. How's the fit/feel in ear, similar to MX500 shells?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Just a teaser


----------



## Star Ace

I am listening to the "new" (my second) Chaconne and wondering how useful measurements can be for earbuds given their great range of fit among users. My new Chaconne sound warmer than I remember and do stay in place even with the stock tips (honestly I just did not know how to fit them during my first stint, as they were my truly 1st earbuds.) They are still wonderful, and sound "reference" because of their natural tone and airy top end, but I do not expect them to measure flat from what I am listening right now. Good, even excellent bass, but bear in mind I am no basshead (I have a few bassy earphones/headphones, and lean toward a brighter and/or more "critical" presentation). Definitely more bass than an ER4SR. Their upper mids are present but not overly forward, yet the vocals are well and naturally represented. Beautiful tones.

Still, interested in results just to figure out if there is even a point. It is a very interesting endeavor indeed.


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Just a teaser


Thx for posting this.

Couple questions:
1. the lack of decay from 75hz down to 20hz is a bit unnatural for earbuds. How are you connecting your earbuds to the coupler?
2. are you using smoothing or no? 
3. your resonance peaks are consistent with earbuds measured on an iec 711 coupler (which is fine) but the 1k to 3k region looks like your mic isn't calibrated? 
4. did you also calibrate your dac/soundcard?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> Thx for posting this.
> 
> Couple questions:
> 1. the lack of decay from 75hz down to 20hz is a bit unnatural for earbuds. How are you connecting your earbuds to the coupler?
> ...


1. 
https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B003X0BP8A
(with 1 of the flanges removed, so its a single flange "tip".)

2. 1/48 in the screenshot, squig has 1/12 (will have a separate squig site for my bud graphs).

3. (wasnt paying attention to any 8k resonance peaks tbh lol.) I am using my IEC711 calibration file. 

4. Nope, not needed. (talked with MRS/Super Reviews about it before.)


----------



## RikudouGoku

Star Ace said:


> I am listening to the "new" (my second) Chaconne and wondering how useful measurements can be for earbuds given their great range of fit among users. My new Chaconne sound warmer than I remember and do stay in place even with the stock tips (honestly I just did not know how to fit them during my first stint, as they were my truly 1st earbuds.) They are still wonderful, and sound "reference" because of their natural tone and airy top end, but I do not expect them to measure flat from what I am listening right now. Good, even excellent bass, but bear in mind I am no basshead (I have a few bassy earphones/headphones, and lean toward a brighter and/or more "critical" presentation). Definitely more bass than an ER4SR. Their upper mids are present but not overly forward, yet the vocals are well and naturally represented. Beautiful tones.
> 
> Still, interested in results just to figure out if there is even a point. It is a very interesting endeavor indeed.


Earbuds graphs are mostly a meme at this point...with no standards and everyone doing their own thing lol. 

And as you mentioned:
"My new Chaconne sound *warmer *than I remember and do stay in place even with the stock tips (honestly I just did *not know how to fit* them during my first stint, as they were my truly 1st earbuds.)"

Thats the reason, fit.


----------



## ian91 (Jan 28, 2022)

fonkepala said:


> Looks wicked. How's the fit/feel in ear, similar to MX500 shells?



Much bigger than MX500! Both in grille  diameter and horizontal width. You need big concha.  They only just fit in my small-average ears.

Some of his other models are much better though.


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> 1.
> https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B003X0BP8A
> (with 1 of the flanges removed, so its a single flange "tip".)
> 
> ...


Thanks for locating those flanges. ordered!

Can you send a non-smoothed version of that graph, or post it in thread?


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Earbuds graphs are mostly a meme at this point...with no standards and everyone doing their own thing lol.
> 
> And as you mentioned:
> "My new Chaconne sound *warmer *than I remember and do stay in place even with the stock tips (honestly I just did *not know how to fit* them during my first stint, as they were my truly 1st earbuds.)"
> ...


earbud graphs are almost useless if approached from the perspective of headphones or iems. There is value in seeing comparisons between models though (after recognizing the unique "fingerprint" of variation from various users measuring buds.) I can almost tell who posts graphs without seeing their user names.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> Thanks for locating those flanges. ordered!
> 
> Can you send a non-smoothed version of that graph, or post it in thread?







I measure 5 times, smooth them and then average them. 

But as I mentioned, just a teaser, will have them uploaded on another squig whenever its done. 




Sam L said:


> earbud graphs are almost useless if approached from the perspective of headphones or iems. There is value in seeing comparisons between models though (after recognizing the unique "fingerprint" of variation from various users measuring buds.) I can almost tell who posts graphs without seeing their user names.


Yeah, as long as they have some form of consistency.


----------



## Star Ace

RikudouGoku said:


> Earbuds graphs are mostly a meme at this point...with no standards and everyone doing their own thing lol.
> 
> And as you mentioned:
> "My new Chaconne sound *warmer *than I remember and do stay in place even with the stock tips (honestly I just did *not know how to fit* them during my first stint, as they were my truly 1st earbuds.)"
> ...


I was also using an N95 mask outside-one of those which I believe alters the sound as well. I find they change the tone of anything that is not a headphone. The masks with a more relaxed grip on your ears are better for IEMs/earbuds (IME & HO.)

Even after learning how to fit my 1st pair, maybe they were "brighter". Perhaps my original foams were all worn out from all the frustration trying to fit them in during the first week or so. And finally, I have been listening to earphones with lots of mids, so my brain is also adjusting to the more (relatively) relaxed mids in the Chaconne. But I still do find the bass in the Chaconne "good"; definitely a bit above neutral.

Best of luck with the measurements.


----------



## captione

There's no really a standard to follow for earbud graphs. Everyone just doing their own thing (even earbud driver manufacturers!).

Though if someone graphs an earbud, an IEC coupler would produce graphs that would not indicate tonal differences in comparisons to other graphs. If you guys do it, just measure it raw as possible.


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

Looks like my LBBs lasted exactly 2 months -- anyway this was when I noticed the crack. It still works but the plastic rim of the driver shell cracked. Looks like it doesn't handle very well the "discovery period" if someone is using earbuds after a long hiatus and trying to better "fit" them.

As many of these earbuds seem to use the same driver shell of LBBs (with the plastic rim) I would assume all share the same "durability concern".


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> 1.
> https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B003X0BP8A
> (with 1 of the flanges removed, so its a single flange "tip".)
> 
> ...


I'm curious why MRS think out doesn't need calibration. It absolutely does, depending on the device being used. I'm think he is presuming everyone if using a macbook or a decent dac.


----------



## InvisibleInk

Sam L said:


> I'm think he is presuming everyone if using a macbook or a decent dac.


It's the Bay Area, man! Everyone here (except gamers) is using a Mac and has the very decent Apple dongle DAC/Amp hanging off their phones, unless they're using AirPods, which everyone also has.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> I'm curious why MRS think out doesn't need calibration. It absolutely does, depending on the device being used. I'm think he is presuming everyone if using a macbook or a decent dac.


I dont think so.
Take a look here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dun...ostatic-tweeters.956907/page-18#post-16407904

All of them graphed differently, no point in calibrating when there is no clear standard to follow. Even more so with buds....


----------



## samandhi

RikudouGoku said:


> I dont think so.
> Take a look here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dun...ostatic-tweeters.956907/page-18#post-16407904
> 
> All of them graphed differently, no point in calibrating when there is no clear standard to follow. Even more so with buds....


I agree. To what would you calibrate it to? Calibration is a method of "zeroing" something out or setting it up to a baseline but since there is nothing to compare to (yet) or a target to set it at, it might actually make things worse or skewed if you DO a calibration meant for something that is NOT earbuds IMO.


----------



## n00b

baskingshark said:


> In terms of sound, the EB2S are a warm and smooth set. Well balanced, good coherency is present. The sound lies towards more analoguish than analytical.
> 
> Timbre is excellent. Technicalities wise, soundstage is very good, very open sounding set. Micro-details, imaging, instrument separation and clarity are very decent at this price point but perhaps not class leading.
> 
> Bass is just a tinge north of neutral and mid-bass focused, with a slight sub-bass tickle, like most run-of-the-mill earbuds. Bass isn't too textured, bass speed is moderate, with no mid-bass bleed. Lower mids are quite lush, with a slight boost in the upper mids. They are not too shouty unless played at high volumes (fletcher munson curve), or on poorly recorded material. Treble is quite well rendered, with minimal sibilance. Note edges are a tinge blunted and smoothened, this aids in giving a mellow sound signature.


just got my pair and ran a handful of songs through them, and here are impressions i wrote before reading yours. i think they align close enough:

i think it has enough midbass and impact, about average subbass extension for buds, doesnt seem as thin and shrill as the old EB2. mids seem pretty clear, maybe even female vocal forward.. doesnt seem sibilant, treble doesnt seem particularly noteworthy but im not complaining or anything. although there does seem to be decent resolution and separation as well

its one of those things where i cant find anything that jumps out as me as like 'wow this does this thing really well', like the way the chaconne can present vocals. its more like the reverse, i can keep listening and just enjoy them, without noticing any egregious flaws. so the more i listen the more i appreciate

anyway, at $20, pretty easy recommendation since the fit, mic option, and build quality seem to bring value. I enjoyed the ME80 a lot and this tuning i think is similar.


----------



## baskingshark (Jan 28, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Excellent write-up on these. I am still awaiting mine but looking forward to them. These might be the perfect daily driver/beater for me. Most of my higher end buds aren't great for the daily rough-and-tumble day to day.
> 
> Would you call these dark then? Again, might be great for me. I don't really have anything warmish in my collection.



Yeah I think they can be a good budget daily beater set. Really I won't feel much heart pain if a budget set gets damaged, say compared to a TOTL earbud costing > $100 USD. And most of these TOTL earbuds are still non detachable, so they are just an awkward yank away from being a white elephant. I get paranoid bringing a TOTL earbud out on the go TBH.

They aren't dark actually. Maybe more of a neutral treble, but doesn't have the best clarity. I mean it isn't those fake ultraboosted treble that is not uncommon in CHIFI, that gives fake resolution.



n00b said:


> just got my pair and ran a handful of songs through them, and here are impressions i wrote before reading yours. i think they align close enough:
> 
> i think it has enough midbass and impact, about average subbass extension for buds, doesnt seem as thin and shrill as the old EB2. mids seem pretty clear, maybe even female vocal forward.. doesnt seem sibilant, treble doesnt seem particularly noteworthy but im not complaining or anything. although there does seem to be decent resolution and separation as well
> 
> ...



Yeah the EB2S has few weaknesses for this price point. No big flaws tuning wise, but also not the most technical (but looking at the $20 price puts things in perspective).

The ME80 is similar in tonality yeah, but I think the EB2S is a bit more technical than it, and fits better. Plus the Anime Waifu packaging LOL.


----------



## jogawag (Jan 28, 2022)

By the way, have you tried the recent NiceHCK Silicone Ring?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002433465841.html

At first glance, it is similar to the Silicone Ring that has been around for a long time, such as Sennheiser, but it has a front and back of ring, a thick width, and even if I attach it to the MX500 series, which I am not good at, it will not fall off even if I exercise. Very well done.

I think it's worth trying if the earbuds often fall out of your ears. 

EDIT:
My ear wax is viscous, so I also wear foam on top.


----------



## baskingshark

jogawag said:


> By the way, have you tried the recent NiceHCK Silicone Ring?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002433465841.html
> 
> At first glance, it is similar to the Silicone Ring that has been around for a long time, such as Sennheiser, but it has a front and back of ring, a thick width, and even if I attach it to the MX500 series, which I am not good at, it will not fall off even if I exercise. Very well done.
> ...



Nice find.

Wow but the silicone ring cost more than the Vido in the above photo hahaha!


----------



## jogawag (Jan 28, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> Nice find.
> 
> Wow but the silicone ring cost more than the Vido in the above photo hahaha!


But suprisingly  at another HCK shop it costs more than second times...
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002433630609.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002433

I unfortunately bought this silicone ring on amazon for this price.


----------



## Star Ace

jogawag,

Is the item still up at Amazon? I do not really need them, but purchased some rings some time ago at amazon.com, and just wanted to compare. Mine ended up being too slippery so I just decided to not use these silicon rings, but maybe a bought a very bad model.

I ask because your links above keep redirecting me to the main page, so I never see the intended link-at least on Google Chrome on an Android phone.

Be well.


----------



## jogawag

Star Ace said:


> jogawag,
> 
> Is the item still up at Amazon? I do not really need them, but purchased some rings some time ago at amazon.com, and just wanted to compare. Mine ended up being too slippery so I just decided to not use these silicon rings, but maybe a bought a very bad model.
> 
> ...


From my Windows PC I can get the three shop pages I have shown.
Could there be a problem with your PC/Mobile settings?
I'm sorry I can't be of more help.

If you can log in to Aliexpress, try searching for "NiceHCK Silicone Ring" as a keyword.

Good luck.


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> Yeah I think they can be a good budget daily beater set. Really I won't feel much heart pain if a budget set gets damaged, say compared to a TOTL earbud costing > $100 USD. And most of these TOTL earbuds are still non detachable, so they are just an awkward yank away from being a white elephant. I get paranoid bringing a TOTL earbud out on the go TBH.
> 
> They aren't dark actually. Maybe more of a neutral treble, but doesn't have the best clarity. I mean it isn't those fake ultraboosted treble that is not uncommon in CHIFI, that gives fake resolution.
> 
> ...


They sound like a pretty good deal to me. I am not expecting them to be TOTL killers in any respect. But to be quite listenable will be a surprise (reading about their predecessors), and most satisfactory to me.

Yeah, I STILL lament the un-attachable (albeit very nice) cable on the Chaconne. That would have made them nigh on perfect for my needs. Oh well, if ever the time comes for a cable breakage, that will be the day I get some usage out of my fancy hot air/soldering station that I have yet to use (bought to work on my broken Nintendo Switch, but found the problem wasn't something I could fix at home>>>CPU)... LOL


jogawag said:


> By the way, have you tried the recent NiceHCK Silicone Ring?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002433465841.html
> 
> At first glance, it is similar to the Silicone Ring that has been around for a long time, such as Sennheiser, but it has a front and back of ring, a thick width, and even if I attach it to the MX500 series, which I am not good at, it will not fall off even if I exercise. Very well done.
> ...


Those are really thick. Good find. I bought a kit that has an assortment of those, all in differing thickness, but none that thick.


Star Ace said:


> jogawag,
> 
> Is the item still up at Amazon? I do not really need them, but purchased some rings some time ago at amazon.com, and just wanted to compare. Mine ended up being too slippery so I just decided to not use these silicon rings, but maybe a bought a very bad model.
> 
> ...


If yours are too slick for you, you can soak them in alcohol for a few minutes, and rinse them off (well). That should not only soften them up a bit, but also make them a bit tackier. I wouldn't recommend doing this daily though as it will weaken the rubber/silicone in the end.


----------



## Star Ace

jogawag said:


> From my Windows PC I can get the three shop pages I have shown.
> Could there be a problem with your PC/Mobile settings?
> I'm sorry I can't be of more help.
> 
> ...


https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005002433465841.html? -that link, right?

(It was never your fault. My browser redirects me to the aliexpress mobile page. Must be an odd issue with the phone. Was never complaining about the links themselves.)

Seems pretty good and different from what I got earlier. Sorry for the trouble!


----------



## Ronion (Jan 29, 2022)

In truth, the variability of FR response that an earbud has when placed in a simulated ear let’s you know how much variation you’ll likely get when you place them in your own ears.  Of course you also have the ability to feel the fit with you ear as well as you hand on your own head so you may well end up with less variability…. When placing it in a fixture, you only have feedback from your hand. The other thing that is cool about that is the fact that I’m sure I can easily tell my earbuds apart in spite of placement variations in my ear.  I’ll always recognize my X6 as my X6 though it’s shape is the same as most of my buds.  That’s evidence enough to demonstrate that frequency response isn’t the only thing you hear when you listen to anything.  Inherent Timbre exists in drivers and tunings.  Fit will certainly effect the tonal balance, but you’ll likely still recognize what bud is in you ear.  Much like you would recognize your guitar if it was played in your bedroom or a gymnasium made by Dr. Gradus. 

That also shows that if you are going to measure a bud, there’s reasons to have both types of graphs: one that’s consistent, and one that’s realistic.  In fact, I think they are quite complimentary.


----------



## samandhi (Jan 29, 2022)

Star Ace said:


> Trying my new Chaconne replacement, 1st tested with test sine waves, and the drivers are evenly matched, sounding flat and wonderful again.
> 
> Kudos to Moondrop Labs *and* audio46 for not making the warranty process a big hassle. A new, old audio toy to enjoy anew.


Well, I must be jinxed. My Chaconne are showing an imbalance in one side now(by about -.25dB according to testing the balance setting in Neutron). Looking at the cable, there is a discoloration developing in one wire. I suspect it is an impurity in the wire, and might be what is causing the issue??? It is not too bad at this point, but I am concerned that it might get worse over time. Any thoughts or verification of this possibility?

I wonder if these have a warranty. If they do I might have to send them back... 

Edit: It wasn't really that you put that notion into my head mind you. It has been happening for a while and I just thought that I was not getting the left bud into my ear as well as the other, so I would constantly adjust the left one. Then I switched ears, and noticed that difference on the right side...


----------



## Ronion (Jan 29, 2022)

Can you hear 0.25 dB?  That might be measurable, but it’s not very audible.  It might be audible if it’s over the entire spectrum, but I doubt you could even get drivers closer than that.  Etymotic does 100% QC on their higher end models and they don‘t come within a fraction of a dB.

you might be experiencing a little Audiophilia Nervosa.


----------



## Kamen555

Ronion said:


> Can you hear 0.25 dB?  That might be measurable, but it’s not very audible.  It might be audible if it’s over the entire spectrum, but I doubt you could even get drivers closer than that.  Etymotic does 100% QC on their higher end models and they don‘t come within a fraction of a dB.
> 
> you might be experiencing a little Audiophilia Nervosa.


What is the threshold of when ur brain stops compensating for channel imbalance when using headphones/earphones? I'm sure it does doesn't it?


----------



## baskingshark

samandhi said:


> Well, I must be jinxed. My Chaconne are showing an imbalance in one side now(by about -.25dB according to testing the balance setting in Neutron). Looking at the cable, there is a discoloration developing in one wire. I suspect it is an impurity in the wire, and might be what is causing the issue??? It is not too bad at this point, but I am concerned that it might get worse over time. Any thoughts or verification of this possibility?
> 
> I wonder if these have a warranty. If they do I might have to send them back...
> 
> Edit: It wasn't really that you put that notion into my head mind you. It has been happening for a while and I just thought that I was not getting the left bud into my ear as well as the other, so I would constantly adjust the left one. Then I switched ears, and noticed that difference on the right side...



I think in general, most folks can't hear until a 3 dB channel imbalance. But if these have warranty, no harm exchanging it since there is a discolouration.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> you might be experiencing a little Audiophilia Nervosa.


I LOL'ed. Thanks for that! The urban dictionary defines that as:


> *the anxiety resulting from the never-ending quest to obtain the ultimate performance from one's stereo system by means of employing state-of-the-art components, cables, and the use of certain 'tweaks.*



While I agree that I should not be able to hear that small of an imbalance, I am hearing it (pretty noticeable too). Maybe the slider in Neutron Player isn't measured in dB (matter of fact, I would bet that it isn't because I can change it from -.25 to -.30 and hear a noticeable difference)??? 
Edit: My mistake, Neutron balance level is measured in -1, 0, and +1 (makes more sense seeing that). 

I guess I just got used to it, insomuch as adjusting the left bud, thinking it was not in an equal spot (physically) in comparison to the right bud. But, once switching ears, it was clear that the volume coming from the right was not equal to the left. I dunno', but I am not so worried about it for now, it is if it gets worse and by then they are out of warranty. 

Hmm, I just had a thought. Maybe I should take the foams off and check and see if it is clogged a bit? I sure hope not. If it is, that means I must have poor ear hygene... LOL


Kamen555 said:


> What is the threshold of when ur brain stops compensating for channel imbalance when using headphones/earphones? I'm sure it does doesn't it?


Exactly why I changed ears. But I would guess it is right at the level that @baskingshark mentioned. I don't really know either way, but I know that I can listen to them for an hour, or four hours, and I will (subconsciously, and continuously) adjust the position of the bud. 

On another note, as a good surprise to me, my EB2s are due to be here tomorrow with the mail. Color me shocked.


----------



## Duqs

forestitalia said:


> I received a pair of Monk Zen 2.0, boys there is no way a portable device can drive those!


I just received my Abigail DAC from VE, drives my Hifiman 400i no problem from a phone


----------



## Star Ace

Kamen555 said:


> What is the threshold of when ur brain stops compensating for channel imbalance when using headphones/earphones? I'm sure it does doesn't it?


I do not know the threshold, but I hear better from my left ear, and my brain compensates for all my audio gear so I can mostly only tell by switching ear pierces (when possible and symmetrical.) 

In my case, the Chaconne issue was evident as the imbalance was obvious by default (my brain could not hide the fact there was an issue), and even more exacerbated if I placed them in reverse. Finally, a sine wave sweep showed a considerably less full sounding left channel, with uneven response, whereas the right was very full sounding and even throughout-just like the both new Chaconne earpieces repacements did.

It may have happened all of the sudden or gradually-that I have no scientific evidence of, so I cannot say the problem was instant or gradual, but that my brain detected the imbalance when I used them after some time enjoying other earphones. I made sure it wasn't just an imagined thing, and tested it several times-100% certain they were not intended to sound that way.

I did not have any discoloration on the cable, however, so that may be not a common issue. My 3.5mm plug bent a little with use, and the gold plating on the brass heads went away within weeks of use, always with foams on-those are the only additional two "issues" I found. 

I am taking care  of them like babies now in case they are fragile, as I love their sound and signature and do not wish to have issues again.

Note that I am not saying they are problematic or prone to issues-it's just psychological now that I had a problem with a pair. Perhaps I am the only one user in the world with the extreme imbalance/defective left driver issue. Not putting a while company down just for an unfortunate sample-as some are happy to do on reviews online for other products, audio or otherwise.


----------



## RikudouGoku

SQUIG IS UP!!!!!!!!!!


https://rg.squig.link/earbuds/


----------



## Star Ace

RikudouGoku said:


> SQUIG IS UP!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> https://rg.squig.link/earbuds/


Thank you for your hard work-funny how the Shiro Yuki compares to the Chaconne, when it does not sound the same. From the measurements and using the Chaconne as a baseline, as it is the model I know best, I would be interested in but a few models, but I am sure there are other things to consider, as usual.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Star Ace said:


> Thank you for your hard work-funny how the Shiro Yuki compares to the Chaconne, when it does not sound the same. From the measurements and using the Chaconne as a baseline, as it is the model I know best, I would be interested in but a few models, but I am sure there are other things to consider, as usual.


yeah, take these graphs with a huge grain of salt.

(although the Yincrow X6 vs K´s Samsara K300 looks very accurate.)


----------



## Rary

RikudouGoku said:


> yeah, take these graphs with a huge grain of salt.
> 
> (although the Yincrow X6 vs K´s Samsara K300 looks very accurate.)


I get more or less the same relative difference between my Samsara and Vido (poor man X6),
Although both our graphs are probably not accurate at all  it's nice to see we get the same consistent gaps around 20-750Hz and 2-6kHz.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Rary said:


> I get more or less the same relative difference between my Samsara and Vido (poor man X6),
> Although both our graphs are probably not accurate at all  it's nice to see we get the same consistent gaps around 20-750Hz and 2-6kHz.


From an iem perspective, I say it is accurate. (since I am turning the buds into iems with the adapter lol.)

But from a bud perspective, it is definitely not what we are getting from them normally. (no foams and a seal due to the iem fit will have some major impact on the sound.)


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> I LOL'ed. Thanks for that! The urban dictionary defines that as:
> 
> 
> While I agree that I should not be able to hear that small of an imbalance, I am hearing it (pretty noticeable too). Maybe the slider in Neutron Player isn't measured in dB (matter of fact, I would bet that it isn't because I can change it from -.25 to -.30 and hear a noticeable difference)???
> ...


Sounds like you need to use your warranty for certain.


----------



## Ronion

Bud graphs in a molded silicone ear with a blocked ear canal using a calibrated mic will look more like this.  You can get a general feel for the changes foam covers make looking at this.


----------



## Ronion

RikudouGoku said:


> yeah, take these graphs with a huge grain of salt.
> 
> (although the Yincrow X6 vs K´s Samsara K300 looks very accurate.)


But when you look at the consistency between yours and @Rary ’s…..  certainly means something.  That’s why I think a consistent measurement rig is crucial.  My rig requires several attempts to get it right sometimes which makes it hard for a DIY guy to evaluate tuning changes or to be sure the measurements are consistent bud to bud.  It’s tricky and must be done with a lot of care.  A “set it and forget it” rig is nice to have though you’ll never really know how that will interact with an ear.  
some observations I’ve had as far as ear fit is concerned:

1) Any shell with a stem is easier to place consistently than small stem or no stem shell.  Bells with no stem are very tricky to place consistently.
2) MX500 shells are more difficult than PK shells which are more difficult than Zen Lite/Qian39 shells.  3) The latter 2 are closer to each other than the MX, but the MX is closer to the other 2 than the bell.  

A consistent rig won’t let you know that.


----------



## ilmothedude

povidlo said:


> Have you tried to wear Maria around the ear, like IEMs? Some prefer to wear her like that since cable earhooks may help to stabilize the fit.
> 
> I wear Maria normally cable down, with a skinny silicone ring and a thin foamie.


I normally use her cable down with double foams (one full and one donut, from ve ex-pack). I've tried around ear aswell but it hasn't usually felt that stable. However right now I'm listening to Maria cable around ear and fit seems actually pretty stable. Bass seems to be  a bit less present, but still enoughly so. Probably cable connector creates some additional seal when worn cable down. Still around ear can be pretty decent alternative wear with Maria. Around ear upgrade cable could even improve fit, but as Maria still uses that really uncommon 0,75mm 2 pin connector upgrade cables aren't that good option. Obiviosly 0,78mm connectors could 'fit' with force as it's not a big difference afterall, but I don't assume it would be that healthy for Maria connectors.


----------



## Sam L

First time using this kind of bluetooth adapter. Turned out better than I anticipated and ironically is more comfortable with the adapters than on the cable.


----------



## Sam L

What other buds are out there with .78mm pins?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Rary said:


> I get more or less the same relative difference between my Samsara and Vido (poor man X6),


The vido is a poor man's X6? I think you mean broke mans X6.


----------



## jogawag

Rary said:


> I get more or less the same relative difference between my Samsara and Vido (poor man X6),
> Although both our graphs are probably not accurate at all  it's nice to see we get the same consistent gaps around 20-750Hz and 2-6kHz.
> 
> 
> ...



I also have old grapf of Vido and Zen1. And they look like much same to suprize.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 30, 2022)

*Graphing Earbud Frequency Response = Big Waste of Time?*

Perhaps. I have been back and forth about this for years now. I am finding myself leaning more and more to thinking that a FR graph of a small transducer sitting so close to our eardrum is bordering fruitlessness. When I think I have figured them out I am stumped and lost again and/or come across a model that doesn't sound anything like how it was graphed!

As Tyll had intimated this inconsistency and difference a number of occasions between earphones (IEMs and Earbuds) and full sized headphones.



*Hotlink to the post*

*Edit*
_This was not meant as an anti-measurements / anti-sound science post. It is simply a thought provoking question (exercise). Personally, I am undecided but am leaning the other way these days... that is away from relying on earbud FR graphs to tell me how they will sound._


----------



## Ronion

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Graphing Earbud Frequency Response = Big Waste of Time?*
> 
> Perhaps. I have been back and forth about this for years now. I am finding myself leaning more and more to thinking that a FR graph of a small transducer sitting so close to our eardrum is bordering fruitlessness. When I think I have figured them out I am stumped and lost again and/or come across a model that doesn't sound anything like how it was graphed!
> 
> ...


Woody, I hope you know I think the world of you, but I'm 100% sure any/all of these folks mentioned in this quote would think measurements are essential--not a waste of time.  I don't think you need a target curve to understand the usefulness of measurements.  The target curve that one of those individuals has come up with is certainly not what we should target and there's no way a graph should supersede a user's experience.  With that said, you can certainly learn a lot from actual data.  It's one thing to say that a mountain is high.  It's entirely another to say it's 3,000 meters.   It's so hard to know how good a reviewer's ear is, if their feeling will line up with yours, or if their just cheering or jeering a product, so some data would be helpful to enhance their believability provided that the measurements are done in a way that's useful.  That's where the more consistent rigs have a lot of problems.  How to really move forward at this point is still unknown, but the waters are slowly clearing.  Steps are being made.  Too bad such things were not considered an essential industry and more time/money were poured into them.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jan 30, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Woody, I hope you know I think the world of you, but I'm 100% sure any/all of these folks mentioned in this quote would think measurements are essential--not a waste of time.  I don't think you need a target curve to understand the usefulness of measurements.  The target curve that one of those individuals has come up with is certainly not what we should target and there's no way a graph should supersede a user's experience.  With that said, you can certainly learn a lot from actual data.  It's one thing to say that a mountain is high.  It's entirely another to say it's 3,000 meters.   It's so hard to know how good a reviewer's ear is, if their feeling will line up with yours, or if their just cheering or jeering a product, so some data would be helpful to enhance their believability provided that the measurements are done in a way that's useful.  That's where the more consistent rigs have a lot of problems.  How to really move forward at this point is still unknown, but the waters are slowly clearing.  Steps are being made.  Too bad such things were not considered an essential industry and more time/money were poured into them.


Concur whole heartedly good man, definitely was not my point at all as I am a measurements man myself (impedance, sensitivity, and max power output ratings being paramount in my book). It was more of a thought provoking question rather than a statement that I was making hence the question mark. Just finding myself leaning away from FR graphs as of late *when it comes to earbuds*. I may just swing back again... LOL! Though I would definitely say that speakers and headphones seem to graph more easily with FR's that correspond more readily to what I actually hear than say IEMs or earbuds. I just remember Tyll offering that in-the-ear earphones behave differently and their FRs don't always make sense and/or seem to correspond to what we are hearing.


----------



## arar

RikudouGoku said:


> SQUIG IS UP!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> https://rg.squig.link/earbuds/



Wow, the X6 and DIY MX500 graphs are pretty much identical lol. Did not expect that.


----------



## Ronion

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur whole heartedly good man, definitely was not my point at all as I am a measurements man myself (impedance, sensitivity, and max power output ratings being paramount in my book). It was more of a thought provoking question rather than a statement that I was making hence the question mark. Just finding myself leaning away from FR graphs as of late *when it comes to earbuds*. I may just swing back again... LOL! Though I would definitely say that speakers and headphones seem to graph more easily with FR's that correspond more readily to what I actually hear than say IEMs or earbuds. I just remember Tyll offering that in-the-ear earphones behave differently and their FRs don't always make sense and/or seem to correspond to what we are hearing.


That’s why I like your graphic still.  It’s pretty much the best we can do at the moment.


----------



## FranQL (Jan 30, 2022)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The vido is a poor man's X6? I think you mean broke mans X6.



No, X6 is yincrow brand bit is same vido


----------



## jogawag (Jan 30, 2022)

FranQL said:


> No, X6 is yincrow brand bit is same vido


Read the following review by @cenizas to understand that.
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/yincrow-x6.22393/reviews#item-review-23970

Here's a comparison graph between the X6 (blue), the white Vido and the red Vido that was placed there.


----------



## Duqs

RikudouGoku said:


> SQUIG IS UP!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> https://rg.squig.link/earbuds/


Great work, thank you!

2 noob questions:

1) Is there a way to use those graphs with AutoEQ to create PEQ (and GEQ for Wavelet)?
2) What response target should be used with earbuds (as opposed to headphones or IEMs)?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Duqs said:


> Great work, thank you!
> 
> 2 noob questions:
> 
> ...


1. DONT, these do not simulate what you are hearing IRL. 

2. No bud targets exists.


----------



## FranQL

RikudouGoku said:


> 1. DONT, these do not simulate what you are hearing IRL.
> 
> 2. No bud targets exists.



Until there is a target curve... nothing is impossible, right @Ronion ?


----------



## Duqs

RikudouGoku said:


> 1. DONT, these do not simulate what you are hearing IRL.
> 
> 2. No bud targets exists.





FranQL said:


> Until there is a target curve... nothing is impossible, right @Ronion ?



I understand, earbud-EQ is the bleeding edge right now in the beginning of the 2022  Thank you!


----------



## povidlo

ilmothedude said:


> I normally use her cable down with double foams (one full and one donut, from ve ex-pack). I've tried around ear aswell but it hasn't usually felt that stable. However right now I'm listening to Maria cable around ear and fit seems actually pretty stable. Bass seems to be  a bit less present, but still enoughly so. Probably cable connector creates some additional seal when worn cable down. Still around ear can be pretty decent alternative wear with Maria. Around ear upgrade cable could even improve fit, but as Maria still uses that really uncommon 0,75mm 2 pin connector upgrade cables aren't that good option. Obiviosly 0,78mm connectors could 'fit' with force as it's not a big difference afterall, but I don't assume it would be that healthy for Maria connectors.


I had to settle back on stock cable as well. It's not the greatest but connectors do fit perfectly. Tried aftermarket NiceHCK and Xinhs cables, and although there were no issues with sound, connectors didn't fit all the way in leaving about 1mm gap. 

Penon sent me copper cable but the listing had the nicer looking blue cable when I purchased Maria. They updated product page after I complained. I think I would've preferred the original blue cable instead. 











Sam L said:


> What other buds are out there with .78mm pins?


VE Zen 2.0 Omega Edition


----------



## ilmothedude

povidlo said:


> I had to settle back on stock cable as well. It's not the greatest but connectors do fit perfectly. Tried aftermarket NiceHCK and Xinhs cables, and although there were no issues with sound, connectors didn't fit all the way in leaving about 1mm gap.
> 
> Penon sent me copper cable but the listing had the nicer looking blue cable when I purchased Maria. They updated product page after I complained. I think I would've preferred the original blue cable instead.


That's strange as I think there were that same picture of copper cable when I ordered, but I still got that original blue cable along with silver braided one. Quite shortly after I got Maria it went out of stock, so I probably got one of last pairs of discounted Maria from Penon. That blue cable is pretty nice, but I still prefer to use that silver braided cable which is same as one I got with Masya pro aswell. That's such a good cable, more flexible and less microphonic than that blue cable.


----------



## povidlo

ilmothedude said:


> That's strange as I think there were that same picture of copper cable when I ordered, but I still got that original blue cable along with silver braided one. Quite shortly after I got Maria it went out of stock, so I probably got one of last pairs of discounted Maria from Penon. That blue cable is pretty nice, but I still prefer to use that silver braided cable which is same as one I got with Masya pro aswell. That's such a good cable, more flexible and less microphonic than that blue cable.


I bought mine during their Black Friday 2020 sale. 

That's why I don't shop with Penon anymore. One customer gets three cables, another customer gets one cable buying same item- and they claimed my order was fulfilled properly.


----------



## ilmothedude

povidlo said:


> I bought mine during their Black Friday 2020 sale.
> 
> That's why I don't shop with Penon anymore. One customer gets three cables, another customer gets one cable buying same item- and they claimed my order was fulfilled properly.


Now that's very unfair.. Is Penon actually modifying package contents or something.. I assume two cables is what Rose Technics provides with Maria, as there were two cables with Masya aswell.  Did you only get one cable with Maria?


----------



## samandhi (Jan 30, 2022)

ilmothedude said:


> That's strange as I think there were that same picture of copper cable when I ordered, but I still got that original blue cable along with silver braided one. Quite shortly after I got Maria it went out of stock, so I probably got one of last pairs of discounted Maria from Penon. That blue cable is pretty nice, but I still prefer to use that silver braided cable which is same as one I got with Masya pro aswell. That's such a good cable, more flexible and less microphonic than that blue cable.


I got that same blue (stiff ish) cable with my Maria II. Mine only came with one cable.

Edit: As a matter of fact, I didn't get the 6.5 adapter or the silicone donuts either.


----------



## povidlo

ilmothedude said:


> Now that's very unfair.. Is Penon actually modifying package contents or something.. I assume two cables is what Rose Technics provides with Maria, as there were two cables with Masya aswell.  Did you only get one cable with Maria?


Yes, I only got the "new" copper cable. Sorry I thought you got all three cables but my comment still stands in lieu of you getting two and different ones.



samandhi said:


> I got that same blue (stiff ish) cable with my Maria II. Mine only came with one cable.
> 
> Edit: As a matter of fact, I didn't get the 6.5 adapter or the silicone donuts either.


Please note picture I posted is of Maria 1 supposed packaging. If Maria 2 is being advertised with those accessories but not shipped to you, sorry to hear that.


----------



## Sam L

povidlo said:


> Yes, I only got the "new" copper cable. Sorry I thought you got all three cables but my comment still stands in lieu of you getting two and different ones.
> 
> 
> Please note picture I posted is of Maria 1 supposed packaging. If Maria 2 is being advertised with those accessories but not shipped to you, sorry to hear that.


Same, only got the copper with the Maria II. I'm not a fan of the cable. I just the the moondrop kato in yesterday. That cable is way better than the one Rose packages with the Maria


----------



## Star Ace

Maria II should have exquisite packaging and cable(s) for the price. They are just too pricey for what they seem to be, but I guess many people do buy them and are fans regardless. No ill will meant. 

A pity, as I have an idea I would like their sound given my preferences elsewhere.

I would like to get a Kato for fun and reference one of these days, but back on the poverty line-especially knowing I have to file taxes soon. Due to Moondrop's own Chaconne, I do not think I really "need" the Kato anytime soon. They like to stay true to their preference curve to a fault (I may be in the minority in thinking this), so Chaconne *may* be one of the best ambassadors of their supposed preferred signature (if I am wrong, it is fine-no need for debates.)


----------



## RikudouGoku

Star Ace said:


> Due to Moondrop's own Chaconne, I do not think I really "need" the Kato anytime soon.


Nope, not at all.


----------



## foniak (Jan 30, 2022)

jogawag said:


> Comparing the b40 and x6, the b40 is closer to neutral and the x6 is for the bass head.
> 
> The shape of b40 is pk type, but it is about 0.2mm larger.
> The shape of x6 is called mx500 type, which is clearly larger than pk type.
> ...


The price difference with Shozy is insane compared to b40 and x6... not sure if justified?

Im gonna buy the b40 first. Anyone has the correct link? I see several. For instance, I see a ton of links here:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000120453244.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.cad863a6Rx4Vr4&algo_pvid=2e5018dd-cfbc-4813-a8f7-ac2bd4c7daf3&algo_exp_id=2e5018dd-cfbc-4813-a8f7-ac2bd4c7daf3-0&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"10000000331421984"}&pdp_pi=-1;9.99;-1;-1@salePrice;USD;search-mainSearch

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003155265272.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.cad863a6Rx4Vr4&algo_pvid=2e5018dd-cfbc-4813-a8f7-ac2bd4c7daf3&algo_exp_id=2e5018dd-cfbc-4813-a8f7-ac2bd4c7daf3-1&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000024395181560"}&pdp_pi=-1;9.9;-1;-1@salePrice;USD;search-mainSearch

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000215001145.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.cad863a6Rx4Vr4&algo_pvid=2e5018dd-cfbc-4813-a8f7-ac2bd4c7daf3&algo_exp_id=2e5018dd-cfbc-4813-a8f7-ac2bd4c7daf3-7&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"10000000835163218"}&pdp_pi=-1;9.99;-1;-1@salePrice;USD;search-mainSearch

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003346490307.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.cad863a6Rx4Vr4&algo_pvid=2e5018dd-cfbc-4813-a8f7-ac2bd4c7daf3&algo_exp_id=2e5018dd-cfbc-4813-a8f7-ac2bd4c7daf3-12&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000025333186442"}&pdp_pi=-1;11.19;-1;-1@salePrice;USD;search-mainSearch

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003156264615.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.cad863a6Rx4Vr4&algo_pvid=2e5018dd-cfbc-4813-a8f7-ac2bd4c7daf3&algo_exp_id=2e5018dd-cfbc-4813-a8f7-ac2bd4c7daf3-10&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000024401440583"}&pdp_pi=-1;12.09;-1;-1@salePrice;USD;search-mainSearch

I don't want to buy some knockoff. Anyone can point to the real deal?


----------



## jogawag (Jan 31, 2022)

foniak said:


> The price difference with Shozy is insane compared to b40 and x6... not sure if justified?
> 
> Im gonna buy the b40 first. Anyone has the correct link? I see several. For instance, I see a ton of links here:
> ...
> I don't want to buy some knockoff. Anyone can point to the real deal?


If you're going to go as far as to say insane at a price of about $80, you should have indicated from the start that your budget is about $10!
And no one may be going to make a fake B40 for about $10.


----------



## captione (Jan 31, 2022)

FranQL said:


> Until there is a target curve... nothing is impossible, right @Ronion ?


Yeah, @Ronion and our boys here will definitely nail it, bit by bit 
We really need to set some standard at least, hopefully the framework will be established in the near future.
As for measuring, IEC standards doesn't really do anything meaningful to earbuds right now.


----------



## Buchi (Jan 31, 2022)

My honeymoon with LBBS is over. Some weeks ago, I felt something was missing but having no other good earbud as one of my Smabat Super Point drivers died, I was stuck with it.

Lin sent me another pair of Super Point drivers and having the two side by side, I can say that I like the Smabat a lot better than LBBS. LBBS sounds thin and less resolving than the Smabat. I hear instruments better with the Smabat especially in busy tracks.

I can't go much deeper into the comparisons as I'm no audio expert. Both are powered by Shanling UA2.

Edit: Received a notification that ST20 preorder has been shipped. Hopefully it sounds better than Super Point.


----------



## feverfive

Earlier this morning I received shipping notice email from smabat for the "crowd-funded" *ST20* ordered back in November.


----------



## Scuba Devils

Yes got my shipping notice also for ST20, looking forward to it.


----------



## Ronion

Buchi said:


> My honeymoon with LBBS is over. Some weeks ago, I felt something was missing but having no other good earbud as one of my Smabat Super Point drivers died, I was stuck with it.
> 
> Lin sent me another pair of Super Point drivers and having the two side by side, I can say that I like the Smabat a lot better than LBBS. LBBS sounds thin and less resolving than the Smabat. I hear instruments better with the Smabat especially in busy tracks.
> 
> ...


You and me both.  Still, the LBBs is a nice buds with no glaring issues.  

I just got mine too @Scuba Devils !   Can’t wait to hear it.  Hopefully it lives up to its potential.


----------



## Carrow (Jan 31, 2022)

@harryyeo


----------



## harryyeo

Carrow said:


> @harryyeo


----------



## Sam L

captione said:


> Yeah, @Ronion and our boys here will definitely nail it, bit by bit
> We really need to set some standard at least, hopefully the framework will be established in the near future.
> As for measuring, IEC standards doesn't really do anything meaningful to earbuds right now.


I'm sorry to say that I really don't think there will be an established target curve for earbuds, even though I've probably published the most posts on the topic. There are just too many variables with not enough market adoption to make it a reality. In the context of this discussion, I assume "target curve" to mean the following:
- a standard of sorts that has wide spread recognition (ie. harman, df, etc.)
- a reference for manufacturers to use in tuning their products.
- a consistent visualization that can peg other FR graphs for comparison

That said, I think the few that have given my compensation files a chance would agree that they make a positive difference. Ignore my work previous to version 1.3 (those were a wreck).


----------



## captione

Sam L said:


> I'm sorry to say that I really don't think there will be an established target curve for earbuds, even though I've probably published the most posts on the topic. There are just too many variables with not enough market adoption to make it a reality. In the context of this discussion, I assume "target curve" to mean the following:
> - a standard of sorts that has wide spread recognition (ie. harman, df, etc.)
> - a reference for manufacturers to use in tuning their products.
> - a consistent visualization that can peg other FR graphs for comparison
> ...



Who knows? It might be possible, and I don’t see the reason accommodating those market adoption variables when it can start small to a community like this thread has.
With the tools for graphing getting more accessible to the budget-minded, it would be at least helpful to set a target curve that states the third you mentioned, just so people here actually knows what to see without scratching heads.

Do you have a thread or a link to those measurements and compensation files? I'm interested to look at it! I wanna study and look further into the topic on hand 😃


----------



## foniak (Jan 31, 2022)

jogawag said:


> If you're going to go as far as to say insane at a price of about $80, you should have indicated from the start that your budget is about $10!
> And no one may be going to make a fake B40 for about $10.



No, what I mean is the price difference. It's a 700% price increase from one earbud to another, what im discussing is if it's 700% better which I doubt.

Of course there are fakes. The pk3 was a cheap earbud and apparently it had fakes because people described a sound that wasn't the one I got which was the original and was superb.

Which is the b40 real link anyway? Why does NiceHCK have 2 stores?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000120453244.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.595f63a6FMDZ05&algo_pvid=1024260d-1aa0-44cd-9756-8f38ed04502d&algo_exp_id=1024260d-1aa0-44cd-9756-8f38ed04502d-0&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"10000000331421984"}&pdp_pi=-1;9.99;-1;-1@salePrice;USD;search-mainSearch

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003155265272.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.595f63a6FMDZ05&algo_pvid=1024260d-1aa0-44cd-9756-8f38ed04502d&algo_exp_id=1024260d-1aa0-44cd-9756-8f38ed04502d-1&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000024395181560"}&pdp_pi=-1;9.9;-1;-1@salePrice;USD;search-mainSearch

The 2 stores:

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1825606?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.595f63a6FMDZ05
https://nicehck.aliexpress.com/store/5380078?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.595f63a6FMDZ05

Also, I see one that says 2021:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100....store_pc_allProduct.8148356.9.2631df51kqs8XQ



this is confusing


----------



## RikudouGoku

foniak said:


> No, what I mean is the price difference. It's a 700% price increase from one earbud to another, what im discussing is if it's 700% better which I doubt.
> 
> Of course there are fakes. The pk3 was a cheap earbud and apparently it had fakes because people described a sound that wasn't the one I got which was the original and was superb.
> 
> ...


Diminishing returns exists you know?

That kinda mindset that you get exactly the same sound performance increase for the same price difference just does not work.


----------



## Sam L

captione said:


> Who knows? It might be possible, and I don’t see the reason accommodating those market adoption variables when it can start small to a community like this thread has.
> With the tools for graphing getting more accessible to the budget-minded, it would be at least helpful to set a target curve that states the third you mentioned, just so people here actually knows what to see without scratching heads.
> 
> Do you have a thread or a link to those measurements and compensation files? I'm interested to look at it! I wanna study and look further into the topic on hand 😃


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbud-target-curve-tests.944006/


----------



## foniak

RikudouGoku said:


> Diminishing returns exists you know?
> 
> That kinda mindset that you get exactly the same sound performance increase for the same price difference just does not work.



Indeed, but how diminishing is it in this case? sometimes the extra price is worth it and sometimes it isnt.


----------



## jogawag (Jan 31, 2022)

foniak said:


> No, what I mean is the price difference. It's a 700% price increase from one earbud to another, what im discussing is if it's 700% better which I doubt.
> 
> Of course there are fakes. The pk3 was a cheap earbud and apparently it had fakes because people described a sound that wasn't the one I got which was the original and was superb.
> 
> ...


B40 in any shop is the same product.
Buy the one with the lowest price you are particular about.

>Why does NiceHCK have 2 stores?
>Also, I see one that says 2021:
I don't know why, so ask the shop directly.

And goodbye.


----------



## Star Ace (Jan 31, 2022)

foniak said:


> No, what I mean is the price difference. It's a 700% price increase from one earbud to another, what im discussing is if it's 700% better which I doubt.
> 
> Of course there are fakes. The pk3 was a cheap earbud and apparently it had fakes because people described a sound that wasn't the one I got which was the original and was superb.
> 
> ...


foniak,

Diminishing returns is indeed a thing, more than what you would think. Sometimes a tiny bit of treble or bass extension can cost hundreds or thousands of dollars. It is up to the buyer if it is worth to *them*.

But we are lucky that value is able to be found nowadays even in the non-chinese brands (to an extent), so one could really be super happy as a "budget audiophile"-as much as an oxymoron as it may sound.

I may never be able to afford an Andromeda, yet I have so many good quality headphones, IEMs, and now earbuds, that any more purchases are truly on the realm of luxury and curiosity. I simply cannot afford as much audio gear as most people can (aparently so!) in these forums. I would be ridiculous to claim I do not have great sounding equipment, however, just because none of my pieces are even $600 (my DAP was $699.00, and that's it for most expensive.)

Earbuds present tons of value, so all things considered, $80 is "nothing" compared to the hundreds of dollars one can expend on pricey IEMs for audible but often minimal tonal signature "gains." Bear that in mind.

(Must add build quality and quality control are fine things to pay for. Often, many audiophiles think in terms of how less they can pay for the truest to the Harman curve preference headphone/earphone. Sound is foremost to me, but not all that matters. Warranties, and something that won't break easily are important to me, as is the final design of the product. I may be wrong, but it is not about the cheapest high quality audio I can get... for me, anyway.)

Be well, and enjoy your music.


----------



## tendou

How much was the crowdfund  st20 last time?


----------



## baskingshark

tendou said:


> How much was the crowdfund  st20 last time?



I paid $64 USD for the non pro version of ST20.

I think the ST20 pro version was going at $140 - 160 ish, around there, can't remember the exact figure.


----------



## tendou

baskingshark said:


> I paid $64 USD for the non pro version of ST20.
> 
> I think the ST20 pro version was going at $140 - 160 ish, around there, can't remember the exact figure.


That's a nice price!


----------



## regulator

I got my Yincrow X6. Been trying to figure out what the difference is with Vido. So far I could not find a thing, except the cable and the colour. Apart from that, identical. X6 starts distorting on the right speaker slightly earlier but I think that is just driver variation. I guess I will put the "X6 is better than Vido" into the myth folder. If someone is wondering if there is gains to be got from buying the X6 - don't bother. Same shell, same driver, identical performance.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Smabat Svara:



















Impressions:
Bass: Probably the best bass from a bud in this price range, very good extension has actual rumble and is elevated with both mid and sub-bass, but fast/tight and very well textured.

Mids: male vocals are recessed and lacks a lot of warmth, female vocals are extremely shouty and sharp, tonality is just decent but timbre is very unnatural.

Treble: airy, very elevated and peaky, timbre is very unnatural.

Overall: It is pretty much unlistenable due to the super shouty mids and peaky treble. Bass is great though but timbre is very unnatural overall, technicalities are good that’s no surprise with this kind of tonality.

Rank: D+


NiceHCK EB2S:





















Bass: Slightly elevated, mid-bass, there is some sub-bass but it is pretty rolled-off like usual buds. Not as fast/tight as some more neutral buds, but not too slow/loose either, texture is decent.

Mids: Male vocals are pretty good in terms of the tonality and timbre, but it is a bit unclean. Female vocals lack some brightness and aren’t very clean but has decent timbre. Both male and female vocals aren’t forward nor recessed.

Treble: Non-fatiguing, smooth and warm, not a lot of air though.

Overall: the tonality is pretty decent and is good if you want a relaxing and non-fatiguing bud with good timbre. The technicalities aren’t that good (for this price) though and overall, the EB2S isn’t anything special and not worth the price to me.

(Its different (warmer and a bit more bass) from the discontinued ME80, but is less technical and IMO inferior to it.)




Rank: B+


Oh and for those that celebrate CNY, happy new year.



"Gong hei fat choy"


----------



## crimer

Are there any earbuds with 2-pin connector, or are they all MMCX?


----------



## samandhi

crimer said:


> Are there any earbuds with 2-pin connector, or are they all MMCX?


I'm sure there are plenty more, but the Rose Technics Maria and Maria II I know are 2 pin.


----------



## jogawag

crimer said:


> Are there any earbuds with 2-pin connector, or are they all MMCX?





samandhi said:


> I'm sure there are plenty more, but the Rose Technics Maria and Maria II I know are 2 pin.



Rose Technics Maria II
https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/rose-maria-ii.html

Venture Electronics MOE
https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=67


----------



## TheRunningIr0n

Rose Martini just came in...


Spoiler









So far I like what I'm hearing. With every release Rose is getting closer to a listenable tuning. 

   Sarcasm (or is it?) aside, this is an interesting product because it's their only single driver earbud release so far. Normally I wouldn't bother getting the 'lower-end' model when I've been informed that a flagship is on the horizon but anything that Rose Technic makes is an instant purchase from me. Like Moondrop, they focus on designing and fabricating unique shell geometry to meet their goals rather than stuffing drivers into generic shells. New with the Martini is a "Magnetic conductor basin" which is likely just the integration of the magnet structure into the metal frame of the driver in a new way (to save space or to affect magnetic field distribution?) We're also graced with a new ceramic cone and a 'bass flute' concept reminiscent of the FiiO EM5.

   Initial impressions are positive! Right away the level of detail retrieval meets or exceeds that of the K's Bell Ti and Moondrop Chaconne. In addition to detail, the driver of the Martini is able to delineate the individual tracks within a recording well (no transient smearing!) allowing you to fixate on and study them easily. It may prove to be too distracting for those who prefer a more homogenized experience but it does mean the Martini has *excellent* low volume performance. Another surprise is the amount of initial impact or 'punch' from the driver on bass notes. If you manage to get a good seal it can be so powerful as to become fatiguing in a way similar to the Fiio EM5. As for tuning, voices on the Martini generally take a backseat to instruments but it's not as pronounced in that regard as Rose's previous models and I would be hesitant to call the midrange recessed. They've managed to avoid giving the Martini a deep v-shaped response as a consequence of both tuning and imaging improvements inherent to the new design. The Chaconne and Bell Ti seem to have a narrower soundstage and larger image owing to a warmer tonal balance than the Martini. They're also slower but not so much as to noticeably fall behind in accuracy. This is going to sound like a monitor or reference earbud to people who are used to the typical MX500 signature and thin to those who cannot manage a healthy seal.

   On the subject of imaging: In my opinion, all of Rose's dual driver models suffer from the inability to accurately place instruments and voices as a consequence of having the high frequency driver sit directly in front of the woofer. This is experienced as the tendency for elements in a recording with more low frequency information to wander into the periphery of the perceived image while high frequency information is projected front and center. Aggravating the situation, the high frequency driver is pushed right up against the front grill which increases the perceived (or actual?) amplitude of the treble relative to the woofer output and leads to improper time alignment. These physical properties of the design combined with Rose's historical affinity for upper midrange and treble emphasis in their tuning means you're in for some _punishment_ with bad recordings. Engineering is always a compromise and what buds like the Masya, Mojito, and Maria II gain in frequency range extension and transducer control under harsh conditions, they lose in image accuracy and tonal balance.

What does that have to do with the Martini? It's never going to simultaneously shove detail in your ear while being an absolute bass cannon like the Maria II but you can tell that Rose has learned some new tricks while attempting to bridge the gap. The ceramic driver *sounds* like it has an excellent transient response to handle complex high frequency information instead of delegating it to the Maria's 10mm screaming banshee. The flute system in the stem provides some added low frequency emphasis and strong impact absent the giant 20mm beast hanging off the Maria II's rear end. Martini marks the point at which Rose has succeeded in achieving _roughly_ the same goal using two different design philosophies. I'm now extremely curious about what they'll do with the flagship.

PS: 



Spoiler: Like it or not, Rose has joined the anime meta.













PSS: While comparing the Maria and the Martini, I finally noticed how some of the weirdness in the Maria II's tonal signature is not just tuning but possibly ringing of the thin aluminum shell. I'm only able to distinguish this from more common mild resonances of shell material because of an older K's earbud in the Bell series called the Black Ling. The Black Ling has a paper thin stamped metal shell with no vents. The only way to describe the performance would be to have you throw a small dense object into a hammered copper pot and take in the auditory nuances of the impact. It suffers from every reflection, resonance, and ringing anomaly you can think of and is unlistenable at anything except very low volume levels. It was an expensive ear training lesson for me and apparently Rose has learned a similar lesson by giving the Martini a much thicker milled body which is comparable in quality to Moondrop's models.


----------



## calcatreppola

TheRunningIr0n said:


> Rose Martini just came in...
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


 great points, well written thank you. Definitely a lot to think about!
Maybe you might also post this in the Rose Technics thread? (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rose-technology-discussion-impressions-thread.808952)


----------



## samandhi

TheRunningIr0n said:


> Rose Martini just came in...
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Fantastic write-up! Thanks. Am I understanding the pictures correctly in that these do not have a removeable cable? Not a total deal breaker for me, but not very fond of the idea in that price range IMO. It almost stopped me from getting the Chaconne in the beginning of that particular adventure.


----------



## Xinlisupreme

TheRunningIr0n said:


> Another surprise is the amount of initial impact or 'punch' from the driver on bass notes. *If you manage to get a good seal* it can be so powerful as to become fatiguing in a way similar to the *Fiio EM5.*


Thanks @TheRunningIr0n for your impressions, i own EM5 and it's a bit big for my concha ears shape, is Martini bigger?
I'd put EM5 more close to ear canals to increase "sealing" and got better bass, so i'm looking for something smaller but with good bass quantity


----------



## Xinlisupreme

jogawag said:


> By the way, have you tried the recent NiceHCK Silicone Ring?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002433465841.html
> 
> At first glance, it is similar to the Silicone Ring that has been around for a long time, such as Sennheiser, but it has a front and back of ring, a thick width, and even if I attach it to the MX500 series, which I am not good at, it will not fall off even if I exercise. Very well done.
> ...


do you know if works on Fiio EM5?


----------



## TheRunningIr0n

calcatreppola said:


> great points, well written thank you. Definitely a lot to think about!
> Maybe you might also post this in the Rose Technics thread? (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rose-technology-discussion-impressions-thread.808952)



Thank you for the kind words. Writing this has reminded me of how much I'd like to eventually get an IEC compliant measurement head or coupler. Maybe I'll run some manual FR sweeps in an EQ program to check for problem areas later on.

There's likely to be a significant overlap in viewership between here and the Rose thread but you may link them here if you wish.



samandhi said:


> Fantastic write-up! Thanks. Am I understanding the pictures correctly in that these do not have a removeable cable? Not a total deal breaker for me, but not very fond of the idea in that price range IMO. It almost stopped me from getting the Chaconne in the beginning of that particular adventure.


The cable is not removable. Currently Penon audio sells the Martini in 3.5mm single-ended and 4.4 balanced. I wish they had a 2.5mm option because most of my DAPs are obscure models with 2.5mm balanced output. The Martini seems to be quite efficient so you shouldn't have issues driving it from a single-ended source.



Xinlisupreme said:


> Thanks @TheRunningIr0n for your impressions, i own EM5 and it's a bit big for my concha ears shape, is Martini bigger?
> I'd put EM5 more close to ear canals to increase "sealing" and got better bass, so i'm looking for something smaller but with good bass quantity



A quick measurement shows the Fiio is slightly less than 16mm in diameter edge to edge while the Martini is slightly more than 16mm. Unfortunately you will probably experience fit issues. The front cap reminds me of a smaller version of the Chaconne both in shape and material (brass). I'm not sure what to recommend because the EM5 already uses a smaller 14.2mm driver which is less common in my collection than the 15.4mm standard. 

Perhaps you should look into buds that use the 'PK' polymer shell. Other members are far more experienced with these models than I am so the only ones I can think of off the top of my head would be the Shozy Cygnus and Stardust/BK. The NiceHCK B40 is a PK bud but bass response isn't a selling point of that model. I do have the DQSM Turandot which uses a custom metal version of the PK but it may vary in dimension from the polymer version. I just measured the diameter of the Turandot at ~15mm so it's smaller than the EM5 or Martini.


----------



## Giru

Hey all!
I'm looking to get a pair of TOTL earbuds. I can spend some money but I'm looking at something that can rival my top tier IEMs. My preference for sound signature is neutral-warm. A bit of bass boost wouldn't be a problem. Resolution should be good too. Any recommendations?


----------



## sunsun89

Giru said:


> Hey all!
> I'm looking to get a pair of TOTL earbuds. I can spend some money but I'm looking at something that can rival my top tier IEMs. My preference for sound signature is neutral-warm. A bit of bass boost wouldn't be a problem. Resolution should be good too. Any recommendations?


bell ti "plus"?


----------



## cqtek

I have just received my Rose Martini and the first thing I did was to take photos of my blue and eternal rose.
I had never tried a high-end Rose earbuds before and I had never read anything about their tunings. So I have come "virgin" to check their sound. Normally, with high-end earbuds I expect two profiles: bright and detailed (NiceHCK EBX21) or warm (OurArt QJ21). And the Martini's don't strike me as something in between. They're warm but with a surprisingly dry and defined bass punch, something I haven't felt in this way before. Let me spend a few hours to move the driver.


----------



## fonkepala

TheRunningIr0n said:


> The NiceHCK B40 is a PK bud but bass response isn't a selling point of that model. I do have the DQSM Turandot which uses a custom metal version of the PK but it may vary in dimension from the polymer version. I just measured the diameter of the Turandot at ~15mm so it's smaller than the EM5 or Martini.


Just as an aside, IIRC the B40 does not use a 'true' PK shell. It is slightly bigger.


----------



## TheRunningIr0n

Thanks for the clarification. Unfortunately, I can't locate my B40 to provide a measurement for comparison at the moment. It wouldn't qualify as a replacement for the EM5 anyway. One thing I completely forgot to mention is that the Maria II is offered in two different sizes: 14.8mm and 16mm so it's a potential candidate.

@Xinlisupreme
If you don't mind the aggressive tuning and unconventional imaging, you're not going to find a better earbud for bass response than the Maria II. However, the center of mass is located near the rear of the shell and they will tip out of your ears if you move suddenly. They're more of a home model and wouldn't be good for walking or jogging if that's your use case.


----------



## syazwaned

Has anyone got their St20 yet? Want to know whether it is a good upgrade over my Asura 2.0.


----------



## baskingshark

Giru said:


> Hey all!
> I'm looking to get a pair of TOTL earbuds. I can spend some money but I'm looking at something that can rival my top tier IEMs. My preference for sound signature is neutral-warm. A bit of bass boost wouldn't be a problem. Resolution should be good too. Any recommendations?



Yincrow RW2000. Warm neutral with bass boost. Quite good technicalities. 

There is a sequel called the RW3000 but haven't tried that one.



syazwaned said:


> Has anyone got their St20 yet? Want to know whether it is a good upgrade over my Asura 2.0.



Mine is still stuck in some warehouse in China. Now is the Chinese New Year period and everything comes to a standstill there for a few weeks. Not expecting any logistics movement till maybe next week or so. 

Will let u know once they come in.


----------



## syazwaned

baskingshark said:


> Mine is still stuck in some warehouse in China. Now is the Chinese New Year period and everything comes to a standstill there for a few weeks. Not expecting any logistics movement till maybe next week or so.
> 
> Will let u know once they come in.



Thank you friend, Appreciate it


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> Yincrow RW2000. Warm neutral with bass boost. Quite good technicalities.
> 
> There is a sequel called the RW3000 but haven't tried that one.
> 
> ...


I agree with RW2000 100%


----------



## syazwaned

WoodyLuvr said:


> The issue is not so much the weight as you say. There are a few heavy metal shelled earbuds out there, some much heavier than the Chaconne. None though are slippery buggers like the Chaconne... well, besides the sleek Turandot that is! The real issue with the Chaconne is the imbalance and awkwardness of this said weight due to it's inherent design combined with the slipperiness of it's shell. Also, people's ears vary vastly and for some the Chaconne will never fit well no matter what they do even with the use of cement or glue!



Hi @WoodyLuvr , does imbalance fit in Chaconne can impact imbalance in sound? Because my friend have it, he said he can detact imbalance in sound. Also he claim that the imbalance seem to disappear after adjusting the cable and the fitting on ear


----------



## Xinlisupreme

TheRunningIr0n said:


> Thanks for the clarification. Unfortunately, I can't locate my B40 to provide a measurement for comparison at the moment. It wouldn't qualify as a replacement for the EM5 anyway. One thing I completely forgot to mention is that the Maria II is offered in two different sizes: 14.8mm and 16mm so it's a potential candidate.
> 
> @Xinlisupreme
> If you don't mind the aggressive tuning and unconventional imaging, you're not going to find a better earbud for bass response than the Maria II. However, the center of mass is located near the rear of the shell and they will tip out of your ears if you move suddenly. They're more of a home model and wouldn't be good for walking or jogging if that's your use case.


14.8mm should be great!
Has 14.8 version a different driver from 16mm version?
If I remember you said Martini has more bass than Rose Maria II, i like bodied mids and isn’t a problem have extended highs…
RW2000 should be warmer than Maria II, I’ll wait some info about RW3000 also😉


----------



## jogawag (Feb 4, 2022)

Xinlisupreme said:


> do you know if works on Fiio EM5?



Sorry, I do not have Fiio EM5.

But, in the Specifications "inner diameter 11mm", so it will work on most of earbuds.


----------



## samandhi

Xinlisupreme said:


> 14.8mm should be great!
> Has 14.8 version a different driver from 16mm version?
> If I remember you said Martini has more bass than Rose Maria II, i like bodied mids and isn’t a problem have extended highs…
> RW2000 should be warmer than Maria II, I’ll wait some info about RW3000 also😉


No difference in drivers. It is only the size in the earpiece that fits into your ear that is different. 

I was actually surprised at the quantity of bass in the Maria II. Being as it has that huge driver in the back, you would think that there would be this large amount of it. It does not. It is very clean bass to be sure, but the RW2000 has more quantity by quite a bit (for an earbud). Now, if you are talking about using some EQ, the Maria II can take a ton of it before any distortion is apparent (to my ears). You can make it almost bass-head levels if so desired IMO. I wish they would have added just a tad bit more bass overall to make the overall sound signature a bit fuller sounding (and to offset that huge pina gain boost). 

But, as was evidenced by putting them into a warmer source (from a suggestion on here), that does help a ton. I don't have any other IEM/earbuds that have a 2 pin cable (and especially not pure copper), or I would also try that out.


----------



## Giru

sunsun89 said:


> bell ti "plus"?


Looks very interesting🤔. Did you hear it by any chance? Impressions? There are a lot of versions of these it seems, which one is better? Sorry I'm a total noob at earbuds😅


baskingshark said:


> Yincrow RW2000. Warm neutral with bass boost. Quite good technicalities.
> 
> There is a sequel called the RW3000 but haven't tried that one


Wow so the RW2000...hmmmm.....the best part is that it's available with a dealer here so I might acutally get to try it.

Anyone hear the RW3000? How much improvement are we talking about? 

Also, how does the Fiio EM5 compare with the RW2000?


----------



## TheRunningIr0n

Xinlisupreme said:


> 14.8mm should be great!
> Has 14.8 version a different driver from 16mm version?
> *If I remember you said Martini has more bass than Rose Maria II,* i like bodied mids and isn’t a problem have extended highs…
> RW2000 should be warmer than Maria II, I’ll wait some info about RW3000 also😉


I may have failed to convey my thoughts effectively. The Martini has great impact and control in a way similar to Maria II but it does not have the quantity or quite the same level of extension. It's pretty much impossible to get the same level of performance from a single driver but the Martini gets as close as it can while retaining control. That's really a strong theme with Rose's products. They don't allow any of their models to have uncontrolled bass or midbass bleeding into the mids. Maria isn't going to have full-bodied midrange tuning for that reason (among other things).



samandhi said:


> I was actually surprised at the quantity of bass in the Maria II. Being as it has that huge driver in the back, you would think that there would be this large amount of it. It does not. It is very clean bass to be sure, but the RW2000 has more quantity by quite a bit (for an earbud). Now, if you are talking about using some EQ, the Maria II can take a ton of it before any distortion is apparent (to my ears). You can make it almost bass-head levels if so desired IMO. I wish they would have added just a tad bit more bass overall to make the overall sound signature a bit fuller sounding (and to offset that huge pina gain boost).
> 
> But, as was evidenced by putting them into a warmer source (from a suggestion on here), that does help a ton. I don't have any other IEM/earbuds that have a 2 pin cable (and especially not pure copper), or I would also try that out.


Yeah this is pretty accurate. That giant driver allows the Maria to *audibly* reproduce tones all the way down to 20hz without any loss of control. The impedance curves of the drivers do not seem to be constant and the overall impedance is very low like an IEM so it will definitely be affected by the output impedance of your source.


----------



## syazwaned

Has anyone has experience cleaning their earbuds with alcohol? I got a channel imbalanced and thinking might be some dirt stuck onto the earbuds holes


----------



## GREQ

syazwaned said:


> Has anyone has experience cleaning their earbuds with alcohol? I got a channel imbalanced and thinking might be some dirt stuck onto the earbuds holes


I have a lot of experience cleaning things with alcohol.

Isopropyl alcohol is great because it doesn't corrode the wires and evaporates quickly.
However with buds, you want to use as little as possible since you don't want it getting onto the driver and eating away at the adhesive holding the driver parts together.

If you can, disassemble it and clean the parts individually. 
Realistically, there's no way of getting dirt or earwax out of the earbud holes without using either a toothpick, an old toothbrush or nail brush or a relatively high power water jet... or a combination of them.

Personally I wouldn't attempt cleaning it at all without disassembling it first.
If that's not possible, put some alcohol on a fibrous cleaning cloth, and try rubbing the bud over it on a flat surface.

*TLDR*
... That is assuming the channel imbalance is caused by dirt/debris, which I highly doubt.
Driver imbalance is usually due to an unseated voice coil, deformed diaphragm or driver failure.


----------



## Nool

syazwaned said:


> Has anyone has experience cleaning their earbuds with alcohol? I got a channel imbalanced and thinking might be some dirt stuck onto the earbuds holes


I'd gently blow it with compressed air, then remove the back housing and gently blow in there. Dirt/hair resting on the diaphragm will definitely make it sound off.


----------



## syazwaned

Thank you @Nool @GREQ for your kind reply. Will do as your advice,


----------



## Xinlisupreme

So... my choice should be between RW2000/3000 and MAria II


----------



## n00b

I should have the RW-3000 either today or in the next few days, and my Bell Ti Plus is on its way back after repair. The Bell Ti Plus did sound TOTL with good technicalities and a fun musical sound signature, but it's really expensive, fit will be contentious since they're small and bell shaped, and mine died in a matter of a couple of months. The RW3000 should be interesting, since it's about half the price of the Bell Ti Plus but also made from titanium in a custom shell but with the durability benefit of MMCX/modular cables. The Bell Ti Plus was only modular at the plug, but I believe mine failed at the cable strain relief at the earbud stem side. I'll try to give some comparisons and will do general sound signature comparisons because I don't like giving more detailed reviews since it's all literally just made up in my head anyway and your experience might be different.

For those of you experiencing channel imbalance, if it isn't an issue with the cable (ie wiggling the cable at the y-split or at the base of the plug or at the stem of the earbud), check that the driver hasn't flexed. This would happen with my Chaconne if I pressed it too hard against my skin, it would create a suction effect and ruin the frequency response until I orally vacuumed it back.


----------



## Giru

n00b said:


> I should have the RW-3000 either today or in the next few days, and my Bell Ti Plus is on its way back after repair. The Bell Ti Plus did sound TOTL with good technicalities and a fun musical sound signature, but it's really expensive, fit will be contentious since they're small and bell shaped, and mine died in a matter of a couple of months. The RW3000 should be interesting, since it's about half the price of the Bell Ti Plus but also made from titanium in a custom shell but with the durability benefit of MMCX/modular cables. The Bell Ti Plus was only modular at the plug, but I believe mine failed at the cable strain relief at the earbud stem side. I'll try to give some comparisons and will do general sound signature comparisons because I don't like giving more detailed reviews since it's all literally just made up in my head anyway and your experience might be different.
> 
> For those of you experiencing channel imbalance, if it isn't an issue with the cable (ie wiggling the cable at the y-split or at the base of the plug or at the stem of the earbud), check that the driver hasn't flexed. This would happen with my Chaconne if I pressed it too hard against my skin, it would create a suction effect and ruin the frequency response until I orally vacuumed it back.


Awesome! Looking forward to your impressions!😎👍👍


----------



## Giru (Feb 4, 2022)

I have a general question tho and please forgive me for asking (I'm sure it must've been answered somewhere but the thread is way to long to wade through and find the answer):

Provided the fit is good and sound isolation is a non-issue (the listener is sitting in a quite room); do TOTL buds stack up against TOTL iems of the same price (or higher); especially in terms of overall detail and resolution?

Just wanted to know how far things have come along with buds coz I'm seeing new and new models coming out these days. For some reason i stopped using buds but wanna get into them. I prefer their feel and fit to IEMs and would love if there was something akin to my anole VX in bud form (maybe a bit more warmth).


----------



## Xinlisupreme

samandhi said:


> No difference in drivers. It is only the size in the earpiece that fits into your ear that is different.
> 
> I was actually surprised at the quantity of bass in the Maria II. Being as it has that huge driver in the back, you would think that there would be this large amount of it. It does not. It is very clean bass to be sure, but the RW2000 has more quantity by quite a bit (for an earbud). Now, if you are talking about using some EQ, the Maria II can take a ton of it before any distortion is apparent (to my ears). You can make it almost bass-head levels if so desired IMO. I wish they would have added just a tad bit more bass overall to make the overall sound signature a bit fuller sounding (and to offset that huge pina gain boost).
> 
> But, as was evidenced by putting them into a warmer source (from a suggestion on here), that does help a ton. I don't have any other IEM/earbuds that have a 2 pin cable (and especially not pure copper), or I would also try that out.


Oh really? Is Maria II thin on mids and hasn’t deep bass?😞
I’d consider RW1000 24ohm (bass boasted) or RW2000, RW3000 cost almost 400€😅


----------



## calcatreppola

Eureka!....

Yesterday i tried a cable I had at home on my Maria II [gold plated single crystal core copper].
Well... now I think I'm happy.
What stroke me in this earbud is the control it has on all voices. All this is true at an even higher degree and the harshness that all listeners recognise in Maria II is well tamed now. Maybe because of burn-in, maybe because of the cable, maybe... now it's by far an earbud that makes all musics interesting, in that is offers music with a different perspective, that has a lot of faithfulness, though being at the same time unfaithful... what a great contradiction! 
I must say that the new cable excites better the basses in classical music (should try with other genres, but let me enjoy it for a while with the music that is most familiar to me).
Next step will be rolling opamps of my xd-05 bal with burson's.


----------



## sunsun89

calcatreppola said:


> Eureka!....
> 
> Yesterday i tried a cable I had at home on my Maria II [gold plated single crystal core copper].
> Well... now I think I'm happy.
> ...


i think because of burn in..


----------



## baskingshark

Giru said:


> I have a general question tho and please forgive me for asking (I'm sure it must've been answered somewhere but the thread is way to long to wade through and find the answer):
> 
> Provided the fit is good and sound isolation is a non-issue (the listener is sitting in a quite room); do TOTL buds stack up against TOTL iems of the same price (or higher); especially in terms of overall detail and resolution?
> 
> Just wanted to know how far things have come along with buds coz I'm seeing new and new models coming out these days. For some reason i stopped using buds but wanna get into them. I prefer their feel and fit to IEMs and would love if there was something akin to my anole VX in bud form (maybe a bit more warmth).



Personally, my take is that earbuds are more akin to open backed headphones than IEMs. In that earbuds give superior soundstage than IEMs due to the transducer being outside the ear canal. Tis a double-edged sword as isolation and hence sub-bass response is generally lacking in earbuds, compared to IEMs. Details are possibly less in earbuds too as the transducer is not as close to the eardrum.

I would say of the higher end earbuds I have bought (Yincrow RW2000, NiceHCK EBX21, SMABAT ST10S Black Gold), their resolution and details are possibly on par with midFI IEMs around the $100 - 500 USD pricing. But when compared to some TOTL IEMs I've tried, eg Andromeda 2020, QDC Anole VX, DUNU LUNA, Final Audio A8000 etc, these IEMs are still better in technical performance (other than soundstage).

But if you look at it from a price-to-performance perspective, earbuds take the cake. TOTL earbuds are around $100 - 200 USD. But TOTL IEMs are easily costing 10 times that.


----------



## Giru

baskingshark said:


> Personally, my take is that earbuds are more akin to open backed headphones than IEMs. In that earbuds give superior soundstage than IEMs due to the transducer being outside the ear canal. Tis a double-edged sword as isolation and hence sub-bass response is generally lacking in earbuds, compared to IEMs. Details are possibly less in earbuds too as the transducer is not as close to the eardrum.
> 
> I would say of the higher end earbuds I have bought (Yincrow RW2000, NiceHCK EBX21, SMABAT ST10S Black Gold), their resolution and details are possibly on par with midFI IEMs around the $100 - 500 USD pricing. But when compared to some TOTL IEMs I've tried, eg Andromeda 2020, QDC Anole VX, DUNU LUNA, Final Audio A8000 etc, these IEMs are still better in technical performance (other than soundstage).
> 
> But if you look at it from a price-to-performance perspective, earbuds take the cake. TOTL earbuds are around $100 - 200 USD. But TOTL IEMs are easily costing 10 times that.


Thanks a lot kind sir!! Really appreciate your response!😁😁👍

I love my Anole VX but lately I've started to develop fit issues with stock tips especially with my right ear. The seal is never perfect. With custom tips the seal is good but then they're not comfortable to wear for very long listening sessions. 

I tried the VE Monk Plus the other day and I was really happy with the fit and comfort. I'd really like to try some TOTL buds to get an idea of the sound. Hope I can find one that will suit my needs🙂


----------



## samandhi (Feb 4, 2022)

Xinlisupreme said:


> Oh really? Is Maria II thin on mids and hasn’t deep bass?😞
> I’d consider RW1000 24ohm (bass boasted) or RW2000, RW3000 cost almost 400€😅


In comparison to the RW2000 yes, it is thinner. Bass IS deep but recessed. Let's put it this way, the Maria II is very much like Sennheiser HD700 from some years back. They were very polarizing because instead of using the hardware to make great sound, they used (fake) tuning to give the illusion of it. They were super emphasized in the same presence region, and then again at 8k (for the sparkle). They were known to be almost as wide on soundstage as the HD800.

That being said, the Maria II focuses totally on the presence region. Everything else is recessed. Crinacle would say "they sound like an old mono radio, but in stereo" because while that boost in presence gives it a lot of clarity, and super separation/soundstange all other regions play second fiddle. I even actually use Oratory 1990 for the HD700 on these (and for the most part it is pretty close). I never thought I would like that sort of tuning, but with the right type of music, they are fantastic. This must be the reason that I still have my HD700.

The RW2000 IMO is a different tuning. They are much fuller, richer but clarity is still there. That is partially due to the presense boost on these also (albeit a lot less than the Maria II). I actually wouldn't call the RW2000 and the Maria II competitors really anyhow.

Edit: I didn't mean to sound like the Maria II don't have some great tech inside. I just meant they tried to rely on overempasized tuning to give it the illusion of more technicalities.


----------



## Star Ace (Feb 4, 2022)

samandhi said:


> In comparison to the RW2000 yes, it is thinner. Bass IS deep but recessed. Let's put it this way, the Maria II is very much like Sennheiser HD700 from some years back. They were very polarizing because instead of using the hardware to make great sound, they used (fake) tuning to give the illusion of it. They were super emphasized in the same presence region, and then again at 8k (for the sparkle). They were known to be almost as wide on soundstage as the HD800.
> 
> That being said, the Maria II focuses totally on the presence region. Everything else is recessed. Crinacle would say "they sound like an old mono radio, but in stereo" because while that boost in presence gives it a lot of clarity, and super separation/soundstange all other regions play second fiddle. I even actually use Oratory 1990 for the HD700 on these (and for the most part it is pretty close). I never thought I would like that sort of tuning, but with the right type of music, they are fantastic. This must be the reason that I still have my HD700.
> 
> The RW2000 IMO is a different tuning. They are much fuller, richer but clarity is still there. That is partially due to the presense boost on these also (albeit a lot less than the Maria II). I actually wouldn't call the RW2000 and the Maria II competitors really anyhow.


I actually loved my HD700, still have them, just not use them all the time. However I am not treble sensitive, and appear to be the "anti audiophile" in general taste (not sensitive to treble in any way or fashion, do not need or love boosted bass.) Im addition, I bought them new when they were starting to fade them out of production, so I did not ever pay $999.00 (the initial pricing was indeed outrageous). I think I paid $479 locally for a new one, then a few months later it was discontinued.

I do understand why some dislike it, but I am very "tuning-tolerant", and it takes more than a few peaks or valleys to offend me. How it sounds overall is more important, though I do watch the measurement graphs for reference.

In general I dislike more bassy and muddy over trebley headphones/earphones, and upper mids do not bother me whatsoever (again, I do go against the common audiophile "good taste" on this regard.) That is how I imagined the Maria II would be fine by me, but it is just *too expensive* for me to even consider them, as I do have other earphones that could more or less fill that niche as described above.


----------



## samandhi

Star Ace said:


> I actually loved my HD700, still have them, just not use them all the time. However I am not treble sensitive, and appear to be the "anti audiophile" in general taste (not sensitive to treble in any way or fashion, do not need or love boosted bass.) Im addition, I bought them new when they were starting to fade them out of production, so I did not ever pay $999.00 (the initial pricing was indeed outrageous). I think I paid $479 locally for a new one, then a few months later it was discontinued.
> 
> I do understand why some dislike it, but I am very "tuning-tolerant", and it takes more than a few peaks or valleys to offend me. How it sounds overall is more important, though I do watch the measurement graphs for reference.
> 
> In general I dislike more bassy and muddy over trebley headphones/earphones, and upper mids do not bother me whatsoever (again, I do go against the common audiophile "good taste" on this regard.) That is how I imagined the Maria II would be fine by me, but it is just *too expensive* for me to even consider them, as I do have other earphones that could more or less fill that niche as described above.


I guess what I don't get is that, if using the Oratory 1990, for the HD700 it pretty much corrects all tonal inaccuracies that are present with stock tuning without really losing any of the technicalities IMO. 

I would imagine, because of the physical setup of the buds, the Maria II could be much the same way. I am super sensitive to the overemphasized presence region, but that might also come down to the type of music I listen to. Oh to be "tuning tolerant" as you say.

I gave up being a bass-head many years ago. Nowadays I can tolerate boosted bass (and even want it sometimes to a point in an audiophile way), but since getting my first planar headphones, I crave the texture that can be had over the overexaggerated/boomy and muddy bass that the masses has come to love with the lower quality .mp3 age. 

I have read somewhere that some manufacturers actually tune their headphones/IEMs specially to accommodate that distorted bass that you get from low quality files. This became the norm, and that is what the masses (me included a long time ago) think is accurate. I had a fella', here on the forum, argue with me saying "bass is meant to be felt, not heard". A true bass-head to be sure, but he was arguing about a set that had obvious muddy, bloated bass with very little to no texture at all. I let it go, but you get what I am saying....


----------



## Xinlisupreme

Alex.Grimm said:


> There are many options and they will differ in sound, I advise you to read the reviews on:
> (some are more expensive than your budget)
> 
> Ksearphone Bell-Ti  120Ω
> ...


@Alex.Grimm could you tell me the main differences between RW-2000 and RW-1000 Bass Version?
It’s not a budget problem.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 18, 2022)

Xinlisupreme said:


> @Alex.Grimm could you tell me the main differences between RW-2000 and RW-1000 Bass Version?
> It’s not a budget problem.


If I may good sir, the RW-2000 is definitely a progression in the Yincrow house sound and tuning from the RW-1000... and a noticeable progression at that.
​*2019 - Yincrow RW-1000 大牛 *(24Ω; aka "Big Cow/Cattle" = Daniu)​*2019 - Yincrow RW-1000 大牛 Bass Edition *(24Ω Bass Version; aka "Big Cow/Cattle Pro" = "Daniu Pro)​*2019 - Yincrow RW-1000 大牛 High Impedance Edition* (80Ω; aka "Big Cow/Cattle High Resistance" = "Daniu Resistance)​*2020 - Yincrow RW-2000 野牛* (16Ω; aka "Bison")​*2021 - Yincrow RW-3000 天牛* (16Ω; aka "Heavenly Cow")​
From the original RW-1000 to the RW-1000 Bass Edition to the RW-2000 and now to the most recent model the RW-3000 (which I listened to a few days back) Yincrow is carefully perfecting their tuning, and considerably so, from model to model. Step by step. They are keeping the best aspects from the previous model and correcting the negatives as best as they can in the next. These earbuds are all detail monsters.

The RW-2000 bass response is equal to the RW-1000 BASS in both bass presence and impact but is definitely far more bass detailed and resolute than the RW-1000. The RW-2000 has stronger mids (not overwhelming nor too forward though) than the RW-1000/1000 BASS which makes the RW-2000 overall more balanced sounding which corrects the timbre a lot. The RW-2000 retains the sharp, crisp, detailed treble of the RW-1000/1000 BASS but has reduced some of that shrill and sibilant naughtiness heavily heard in the RW-1000/1000 BASS. I would even offer that the RW-2000 sounds even more open and airier than either of the previous RW-1000 models. Now with that said, the RW-2000 still wasn't without sibilance and for some, like myself, the upper mids and lower highs can still be quite fatiguing (and quickly so) with some hardness and shrillness that aches something awful if you are sensitive to this to any degree.

The RW-3000 is a huge step in the right direction in my book... retaining all the best qualities of both the RW-1000 BASS and RW-2000 with even greater reduced sibilance and harshness in the upper midrange and treble regions. It is ever so slightly warmer and probably a tad more balanced than the RW-2000. And although indeed far less fatiguing than the RW-2000 unfortunately the RW-3000 too is tiresome. I couldn't quite put my finger on it but I was tired after only twenty minutes of casual listening. Most especially with vocals so I am thinking it may be something happening around the 2-3 kHz area in the tuning.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Feb 6, 2022)

Xinlisupreme said:


> @Alex.Grimm could you tell me the main differences between RW-2000 and RW-1000 Bass Version?
> It’s not a budget problem.


RW-1000 Bass -> Bass version does not mean they are for bassheads, it means that they have a more musical sound than in stock neutral RW-1000. Very wide soundstage I've heard, from memory perhaps a little wider than in Moondrop Chaconne. It seems to me that the Moondrop is more comfortable and not so bright, but on some tracks the highs still dominate.
RW-2000 -> stage is smaller than RW-1000 Bass, but RW-2000 has much more midbass which was not enough for me in RW-1000 Bass. It is advisable to replace the cable with a copper one, this will give more comfortable and less bright highs.
I liked the RW-2000 better than the RW-1000 Bass because I like it when there's enough bass. But now I want to try RW3000.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Feb 6, 2022)

Alex.Grimm said:


> RW-1000 Bass -> Bass version does not mean they are for bassheads, it means that they have a more musical sound than in stock neutral RW-1000. Very wide soundstage I've heard, from memory perhaps a little wider than in Moondrop Chaconne. It seems to me that the Moondrop is more comfortable and not so bright, but on some tracks the highs still dominate.
> RW-2000 -> stage is smaller than RW-1000 Bass, but RW-2000 has much more midbass which was not enough for me in RW-1000 Bass. It is advisable to replace the cable with a copper one, this will give more comfortable and less bright highs.
> I liked the RW-2000 better than the RW-1000 Bass because I like it when there's enough bass. But now I want to try RW3000.


Nice point; totally concur. I would also place the entire RW series up there with the likes of the *Rose Technics Maria II* (14Ω) and *Toneking (MusicMaker MrZ Tiankui) Dendroaspis Viridis *(32Ω) in regards to wide, open staging.

BTW: Hope you and yours are safe & well and that everything calms the 'F' down over there so you can live your life in peace.


----------



## Xinlisupreme (Feb 6, 2022)

Wow does toneking compete with RW2000?!?
Cost nothing!
https://a.aliexpress.com/_vblW7o


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Feb 6, 2022)

Xinlisupreme said:


> Wow does toneking compete with RW2000?!?
> Costo nothing!
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_vblW7o


I was speaking of the Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis specifically and referring to it having a *similar wide open staging as the Maria II only* but no where the detail and/or resolution of the Maria II. The Dendroaspis Viridis has an edginess and brightness about it that many do not like and find off putting... the Maria II is far more behaved in this regards but still fatiguing for some listeners. I found the Dendroaspis Viridis to be too bright and even too harsh and aggressive for my tastes. Still it is an excellent earbud for the cost but can not compete with the Maria II in any other department besides staging and price tag.


----------



## Xinlisupreme

So I’d prefer RW2000 but looks big as my EM5, I need something smaller but with good amount of bass, I don’t like LBBS because hasn’t bass for my taste.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Xinlisupreme said:


> So I’d prefer RW2000 but looks big as my EM5, I need something smaller but with good amount of bass, I don’t like LBBS because hasn’t bass for my taste.


Wait and see how your Smabat ST20 performs when it arrives. Svara-Smabat earbuds are known for their low bass performance.


----------



## Xinlisupreme

Yeah it’s on the way…


----------



## RikudouGoku (Feb 6, 2022)

Ehm, maybe this is an earbud?

https://thewalkmanblog.blogspot.com/2022/02/sony-wf-l900-leaked.html









Sony and their weird design lol.


----------



## emusic13

RikudouGoku said:


> Ehm, maybe this is an earbud?
> 
> https://thewalkmanblog.blogspot.com/2022/02/sony-wf-l900-leaked.html
> 
> ...


Looks like something interesting enough for me to try. Not sure how easily it would stay in place though🤔


----------



## RikudouGoku

emusic13 said:


> Looks like something interesting enough for me to try. Not sure how easily it would stay in place though🤔






I guess thats a silicone hook. But yeah, it looks very ehm...unique.


----------



## Kumonomukou (Feb 6, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> Ehm, maybe this is an earbud?
> 
> https://thewalkmanblog.blogspot.com/2022/02/sony-wf-l900-leaked.html
> 
> ...


I'd wait for feedbacks on wearing comfort/stability. None of the past 3 gen Sony TWS impressed me in that department. All downs to the size, weight distribution as well as extra wingtips.


----------



## assassin10000 (Feb 6, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> Ehm, maybe this is an earbud?
> 
> https://thewalkmanblog.blogspot.com/2022/02/sony-wf-l900-leaked.html
> 
> ...



It is.



emusic13 said:


> Looks like something interesting enough for me to try. Not sure how easily it would stay in place though🤔





RikudouGoku said:


> I guess thats a silicone hook. But yeah, it looks very ehm...unique.





Kumonomukou said:


> I'd wait for feedbacks on wearing comfort/stability. None of the past 3 gen Sony TWS impressed me in that department. All downs to the size, weight distribution as well as extra wingtips.



Probably fits similar to the Buds Live (which I enjoy).


----------



## FranQL

RikudouGoku said:


> I guess thats a silicone hook. But yeah, it looks very ehm...unique.



Maybe you can take off by placing them on the ears....


----------



## feverfive

My smabat ST20 were delivered this morning.  Corner of the box took a beating in transit, but visually, all seems good.  Gonna try to make time tonight to give them a listen.  I specifically requested a 4.4mm balanced termination.


----------



## feverfive

feverfive said:


> My smabat ST20 were delivered this morning.  Corner of the box took a beating in transit, but visually, all seems good.  Gonna try to make time tonight to give them a listen.  I specifically requested a 4.4mm balanced termination.



The MMCX cable connector snapped into the left ear piece with a satisfying "click" sound; the right one, not so much.  I THINK it is connected, but no time right now to test.


----------



## Xinlisupreme

feverfive said:


> My smabat ST20 were delivered this morning.  Corner of the box took a beating in transit, but visually, all seems good.  Gonna try to make time tonight to give them a listen.  I specifically requested a 4.4mm balanced termination.


Waiting forward your impressions, mine is still on way


----------



## Xinlisupreme

So Tempted by RW2000 but a bit scared by fit...
I like midbass emphasis and in general more bass than neutral buds, so RW2000 should be my cup of tea considering also it is easy to drive with W2 or RS6.


----------



## baskingshark

Xinlisupreme said:


> So Tempted by RW2000 but a bit scared by fit...
> I like midbass emphasis and in general more bass than neutral buds, so RW2000 should be my cup of tea considering also it is easy to drive with W2 or RS6.



RW2000's fit is quite good, at least for my average sized ears. They can be worn cable down or even over ears, so quite a few permutations in terms of fit. Or even if the earbuds feel quite loose in the ear, one can use double foams or silicone hooks/covers to add heft to the fit (these might change the sound signature a bit though).




feverfive said:


> My smabat ST20 were delivered this morning.  Corner of the box took a beating in transit, but visually, all seems good.  Gonna try to make time tonight to give them a listen.  I specifically requested a 4.4mm balanced termination.



Any first impressions on the sound? TIA!


----------



## Xinlisupreme

baskingshark said:


> RW2000's fit is quite good, at least for my average sized ears. They can be worn cable down or even over ears, so quite a few permutations in terms of fit. Or even if the earbuds feel quite loose in the ear, one can use double foams or silicone hooks/covers to add heft to the fit (these might change the sound signature a bit though).


Ok i go with it, do you know where can i buy for a good price?


----------



## baskingshark

Xinlisupreme said:


> Ok i go with it, do you know where can i buy for a good price?



I bought mine second hand from a local shop, but the Yincrow RW2000 is frequently on sale on Aliexpress. There's a big sale coming up in march 2022, so might wanna wait till then. Who knows, a better set/hypetrain will probably come out by march, that's how fast this industry moves!!!


----------



## Giru

Any comparisons between the RW-2000 vs OurArt QJ21?

Opinions on the QJ21 in general?


----------



## feverfive

baskingshark said:


> Any first impressions on the sound? TIA!


Re: smabat St20

I am really hesitant to comment on sound as I have just "come back" from an ear infection (first time since I was a small child!!!) in both ears for almost 2.5 weeks.  It actually forced me to buy a set of over ear headphones (I am not a headphone guy, and hadn't even had cans in my possession for almost 10 months) last week, so the only music listening I had done before last night was using my new cans for like 3 days prior, hahaha.

I am willing to say that I THINK this set especially will benefit from some burn-in.  I noted a significant upper mid/lower treble harshness that sure seemed to diminish over the few hours I had these playing out of both my WM1A (for music) and L&P W2 (connected to my Macbook Pro to watch a tv show).


----------



## samandhi

feverfive said:


> Re: smabat St20
> 
> I am really hesitant to comment on sound as I have just "come back" from an ear infection (first time since I was a small child!!!) in both ears for almost 2.5 weeks.  It actually forced me to buy a set of over ear headphones (I am not a headphone guy, and hadn't even had cans in my possession for almost 10 months) last week, so the only music listening I had done before last night was using my new cans for like 3 days prior, hahaha.
> 
> I am willing to say that I THINK this set especially will benefit from some burn-in.  I noted a significant upper mid/lower treble harshness that sure seemed to diminish over the few hours I had these playing out of both my WM1A (for music) and L&P W2 (connected to my Macbook Pro to watch a tv show).


It's good that you have recovered.

Thanks for the impressions. This seems like the Smabat "house tuning" to me. Every pair I have, has that pina gain boost in some amount or other.


Xinlisupreme said:


> Ok i go with it, do you know where can i buy for a good price?


Cheapest I have found them are from here on Aliexpress. I can't speak to the reputation of the store because I bought them from the NiceHCK store on Aliexpress (which they have them also but are about $10 more).


----------



## Xinlisupreme

samandhi said:


> Cheapest I have found them are from here on Aliexpress. I can't speak to the reputation of the store because I bought them from the NiceHCK store on Aliexpress (which they have them also but are about $10 more).


yeah I was looking that store and VS Audio at same price… anyway I think I’d wait because I’m ****ed, today I received this bad red guy and I can’t stop to listen it, unfortunately isn’t mine 😞


----------



## samandhi

Xinlisupreme said:


> yeah I was looking that store and VS Audio at same price… anyway I think I’d wait because I’m ****ed, today I received this bad red guy and I can’t stop to listen it, unfortunately isn’t mine 😞


SWEET!


----------



## samandhi (Feb 8, 2022)

For my impressions of the EB2S. I have been listening to them for more than a week, and I have to say they are an enjoyable listen. They aren't some super TOTL killer by any stretch of the imagination. This will be easy to describe because they sound (almost) exactly like the Smabat M2S Pro, with a couple of differences (to my ears).

They have a tad bit less quantity in the lower end, and because of this, the pina gain area is perceived as boosted even more. Other than that they are tuned almost just like the Smabat. The biggest differences here is in the technicalities. These don't seem as big on soundstage, and layering is not done as well. On congested tracks things get jumbled a bit. And there is some grain to the treble. Though they remain pretty clear in their overall presentation. I wonder if the driver is the 40Ohm driver from Smabat (or a shelf driver of that type) just thrown into a different shell (giving them a bit different tuning overall).

Maybe I got a different pair than others on here that have described them as warm because I don't find them warm at all. I would actually call them a bit bright to my ears. I don't know if I would say they are worth the normal asking price, but somewhere around $10 would be a good starting point, simply because I think that there are a lot better buds out there for cheaper even (comparitively).

I do find the fitment superb, and the cable, while nothing really special, is quite nice for what it is. These are so light; they can be worn all day and then some if needs be.

Overall, I am pleased with them for a beater/daily bud.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

**** A WARNING FROM THE PARTNERSHIP FOR AN IEM-FREE WORLD ***

Parents who use IEMs have kids who use IEMs! Just say no to IEMs.   *


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> **** A WARNING FROM THE PARTNERSHIP FOR AN IEM-FREE WORLD ***
> 
> Parents who use IEMs have kids who use IEMs! Just say no to IEMs.  *


I LOL'ed!


----------



## syazwaned

feverfive said:


> Re: smabat St20
> 
> I am really hesitant to comment on sound as I have just "come back" from an ear infection (first time since I was a small child!!!) in both ears for almost 2.5 weeks.  It actually forced me to buy a set of over ear headphones (I am not a headphone guy, and hadn't even had cans in my possession for almost 10 months) last week, so the only music listening I had done before last night was using my new cans for like 3 days prior, hahaha.
> 
> I am willing to say that I THINK this set especially will benefit from some burn-in.  I noted a significant upper mid/lower treble harshness that sure seemed to diminish over the few hours I had these playing out of both my WM1A (for music) and L&P W2 (connected to my Macbook Pro to watch a tv show).


How comfortable it is on your ears. I have smabat m2s pro, it is as heavy as hell.


----------



## digititus

syazwaned said:


> How comfortable it is on your ears. I have smabat m2s pro, it is as heavy as hell.


Wear them cable over ears. Problem solved


----------



## syazwaned

digititus said:


> Wear them cable over ears. Problem solved
> 
> 
> digititus said:
> ...


----------



## Carrow

leaving the hobby so if anyone wants my Sennheiser MX985s, peep the signature


----------



## waynes world

Carrow said:


> leaving the hobby





Spoiler: Good luck with that!


----------



## Carrow

waynes world said:


> Spoiler: Good luck with that!




OK, at least for now. getting back into IEMs in the meantime once I've parted with this stuff.


----------



## Svstem

I've been able to get my hands on somewhat of a unicorn recently, the Technics RP-HV100. I've written an in-depth review on my blog and thought you guys might be interested: https://systematicsound.wordpress.com/2022/02/09/technics-rp-hv100-review/


----------



## ian91 (Feb 9, 2022)

A recent purchase from another DIY'er - Acoustic Tone. This model is neutral with a bass lift, excellent timbre and resolution and a very wide, tall and deep spherical soundstage competing with my entry-level open back Grados and exceeding them in imaging. Easily the most technical bud I own. It has an interesting magnetised, removable rear covering that plugs two vent holes to adjust bass frequencies and affect stage. When plugged, venting is via the base of the neck, hence the lack of detachable cable to allow for air flow. Shell is rhodium.


----------



## Charlyro222

Smabat 150 ohms driver and filters arrived today.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 5, 2022)

Svstem said:


> I've been able to get my hands on somewhat of a unicorn recently, the Technics RP-HV100. I've written an in-depth review on my blog and thought you guys might be interested: https://systematicsound.wordpress.com/2022/02/09/technics-rp-hv100-review/


*@Svstem*
Outstanding article and review, thank you for sharing! Very thoughtful and well presented good sir. Sincerely a great, great read. I enjoy seeing buds from the early Golden Era receiving the spotlight once again and so rightly deserved! I fondly remember the *Technics RP-HV100* and happy to see it presented so well so that the newer generation can better appreciate and understand from where modern earbud design is heavily borrowing from.

If I may (most humbly and respectfully) offer some additional specifications, a few corrections, and some additional historical data for your already amazing blog post:

As much as the venerable *Sony MDR-E252 “Fontopia” (18Ω; June 1982)* loves to hog all the limelight it is in fact not the first earbud. That title belongs to the _*Trio-Kenwood KH-0.5 “Petitphones” (32Ω)*_, pictured below, which was first launched six months earlier in December of 1981. There are some collectors that believe the _*TEAC HP-30 (30Ω)*_ might have launched weeks before the Sony as well... I am in the other boat and believe from first hand experience (my memory) that Sony launched just before it but have yet to get my hands on physical proof to corroborate that. I do get your point though that 1982 was the year that earbuds took us by storm... just wanted to offer some earlier dates that many do not recall or know.​​

 


Technics and National were (are) both one and the same. Both brand names were used by Panasonic aka Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd. (now officially known as the Panasonic Corporation). Earphones sold under the National and Technics branding were all made at Matsushita Electric factories by Panasonikku Kabushiki Gaisha (Romanized naming of Matsushita that simplified to Panasonic).​
The _*Technics RP-HV100 *_earbud was launched in July 1987 and was discontinued sometime around the end of 1991 to the beginning of 1992. Still under great debate some collectors have tracked down supply chain documents showing that last production was in November 1991 while others point to dated packaging showing final assembly dating as late as March 1992.​​The _impedance-max power input-sensitivity_ rating of *28Ω; 50mW @ 1Vrms; 106 dB SPL @ 1mW* for the _*Technics RP-HV100*_ is indeed correct. The _Rated 'Recommended' Power_ was only 15mW @ 1Vrms (though this may have been somewhat off... please see below for further consideration and explanation).​​During the 1980s, the early part of the Golden Era of Earbuds, Panasonic, like many of it's competitors, leaned heavily upon 16Ω, 26Ω, 28Ω, and 32Ω impedance drivers (some other common driver impedances, not used by Panasonic, were 15Ω, 16Ω, 17Ω, 18Ω, 20Ω, & 22Ω). All of which were similarly designed and spec'd having sensitivity ratings always falling somewhere between 104 and 108 dB/mW with a Max 'Allowable' Power Input of 30mW to 50mW (depending on the model). The Rated 'Recommended' Power though was much, much lower for all these drivers falling somewhere between 10 and 20mW only. Companies purposely designed and/or spec'd their drivers this way due to the weakly powered headAMP modules/boards that would be driving (powering) their earphones but also due to the industry maximum SPL requirement of ~116-118 dB for analog cassette tape playback.​​*Technics RP-HV100 Specs*​

Using the ~15mW Rated 'Recommended' Power rating spec the *Technics RP-HV100* only requires 0.65Vrms (15.14mW; 23.25mA) to reach an industry standard of 117.8dB SPL for listening to analog cassette tapes. A measly 1.18Vrms will push these earbuds to max tolerances of 50.07mW @ 42.29mA, reaching an ear bleeding 123dB SPL! Now taking into consideration the *RP-HV100's* dual driver, three magnet design I am tempted to offer that the 50mW Maximum Input Power rating *might* be stretched to 100mW (maybe slightly over) as the Max 'Allowable' Power Input rating was typically representative of a "single driver" only. In this consideration, the Rated 'Recommended' Power would perhaps only be 30mW which would require less than 1.0Vrms for a max reachable SPL of ~120dB.​​The *Technics RP-HV100* thus should not be interpreted as being *"power hungry"* but rather quite capable of scaling well and handling more power due to it's superb build and engineering but nonetheless all to it's great detriment in driver health and operating life span.​​Albeit nicely built, with quality materials and rather robust driver design (especially the voice coils), a many a collector have learned the hard way that although these early Golden Era earbuds *may and do scale wonderfully* it is *well beyond their intended usage and design limitations* and in turn *driver life is sacrificed and considerably so! *Back in the early 2000s a number of us collectors in Japan started to experiment, scaling with more power, with disastrous results... forever destroying countless already scarce models never to be heard (used) again. Since there was no distortion (with the extra amplification) being heard and/or reported many of us thought it was all hunky-dory until massive failings began to occur. I am also guilty of this heinous act and know that I will be judged for it one day and rightly so 🥺. We soon learned that the high temperatures at the voice coils was causing them a slow death and that the increased temperatures were also causing a cascade of driver parts to fail. Unfortunately, these wonderfully engineered audio gems can not sustain such abusive power for very long and they will in time, sooner than later, fail. I truly would hate for anyone else to lose their hard earned dollars in such a manner as I and a number of other collectors did out of blind ignorance and hopefulness.​


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> *@Svstem*
> Outstanding article and review, thank you for sharing! Very thoughtful and well presented good sir. Sincerely a great, great read. I enjoy seeing buds from the early Golden Era receiving the spotlight once again and so rightly deserved! I fondly remember the *Technics RP-HV100* and happy to see it presented so well so that the newer generation can better appreciate and understand from where modern earbud design is heavily borrowing from.
> 
> If I may (most humbly and respectfully) offer some additional specifications, a few corrections, and some additional historical data for your already amazing blog post:
> ...


Do you just bleed earbuds? 

Very nice write-up as well as @Svstem! Thanks for sharing more interesting information.


----------



## syazwaned

Charlyro222 said:


> Smabat 150 ohms driver and filters arrived today.


How is it?


----------



## pr0b3r

Finally got my hands on @irv003's 32Pro. Positive thoughts early on. Comparing them side by side with the OG EMX500 (2016), I find a lot of similarities. However, it feels like this is entirely a complete upgrade (hardware, aesthetics, sound tuning) of the highly regarded bang-for-the-buck EMX500. I hear a better textured and more rounded low end, slight lift and added clarity to the vocals, more clean (no more occasional graininess) and controlled treble. Still spacious as the EMX if not better. I hear them both as having a quite intimate overall sound especially with the vocals and with enough airiness to it, while retaining excellent amount of details. Glad to have participated in the recent group buy. I'll observe more in the coming days since this will definitely be one of my go to buds whether at home or out and about.

Tested using my Sony ZX300 (WalkmanOne - Bright custom firmware by MrWalkman).


----------



## Chessnaudio

pr0b3r said:


> Finally got my hands on @irv003's 32Pro. Positive thoughts early on. Comparing them side by side with the OG EMX500 (2016), I find a lot of similarities. However, it feels like this is entirely a complete upgrade (hardware, aesthetics, sound tuning) of the highly regarded bang-for-the-buck EMX500. I hear a better textured and more rounded low end, slight lift and added clarity to the vocals, more clean (no more occasional graininess) and controlled treble. Still spacious as the EMX if not better. I hear them both as having a quite intimate overall sound especially with the vocals and with enough airiness to it, while retaining excellent amount of details. Glad to have participated in the recent group buy. I'll observe more in the coming days since this will definitely be one of my go to buds whether at home or out and about.
> 
> Tested using my Sony ZX300 (WalkmanOne - Bright custom firmware by MrWalkman).


I am in total agreement of this. I have the Moondrop Leibesleid which I like better for vocals, but for overall enjoyment and just listening to any genre these are king!


----------



## Svstem (Feb 10, 2022)

@WoodyLuvr 

Thank you very much! I am very flattered to receive this thoughtful and kind comment. Indeed, my goal was to shed some light on those fairly mysterious things.

You strike me as quite the expert on earbuds!


In my research, I have indeed found the “Petitphones” while writing the article. One thing I must mention is that it seems incredibly rare, which is why I chose to mention the E252 as a more significant release that launched flatheads to the mainstream. I wonder if anyone here has tried Petitphones though, would be very curious to read their impressions.

I did not know that the last production year of the HV100 was 1991! These supply chain documents would also be a great read. I couldn’t dig that much information on the earbud during my search, so if you have anything more knowledge about these, I would be seriously interested.


I sincerely appreciate your technical breakdown of the efficiency ratings of the HV100. I have qualified it as power hungry since it did seem to require a bit more juice than some of my other earbuds and IEMs to reach a similar loudness. I would be surprised if I’ve brought these past 110 dB, as my usual listening volumes vary between 75 to 90 dB averages (which I assume can peak up 100-105 dB, at the very loudest). I have a MiniDSP EARS I could use to estimate loudness, but I am uncertain how accurate the reading will be with the coupling.

I must say that I was completely unaware of these design limitations along with the fragility of the drivers. If I may ask, what was your experience with HV100 failures – or any of those older earbuds failing? Was it usually the woofer or tweeter that was more susceptible? Also, are there ever any warning signs that the earphone is being stretched past its ability? Because throughout my listening, they have sounded effortlessly great!

All in all, fantastic input from you, you have taught me quite a bit. I would be curious to read some of your prior impressions on past experiences with earbuds!


----------



## feverfive

Just a heads-up for anyone in the U.S. who might be interested:  tomorrow I'll be listing both my *Penon BS1* *Official* (2.5mm balanced) and *smabat ST-20* (4.4mm balanced).  I bought the BS1 from Penon in November, and just received the ST-20 last week (pre-ordered).

I'm too busy tonight to snap pics (both are already boxed-up)..


----------



## syazwaned

feverfive said:


> Just a heads-up for anyone in the U.S. who might be interested:  tomorrow I'll be listing both my *Penon BS1* *Official* (2.5mm balanced) and *smabat ST-20* (4.4mm balanced).  I bought the BS1 from Penon in November, and just received the ST-20 last week (pre-ordered).
> 
> I'm too busy tonight to snap pics (both are already boxed-up)..


How is the Smabat ST 20?


----------



## feverfive

syazwaned said:


> How is the Smabat ST 20?


Honestly, I haven't used it nearly enough for me to give my opinions on it beyond saying I think it will need burn-in (if you believe in such).  My set has less than 15 hours on it, and I am sure it needs plenty more.

I'm not selling because I dislike it (same with the BS1 Official); I just want to avoid winding up with a collection as I plan to buy the RW3000 soon.


----------



## samandhi

feverfive said:


> Honestly, I haven't used it nearly enough for me to give my opinions on it beyond saying I think it will need burn-in (if you believe in such).  My set has less than 15 hours on it, and I am sure it needs plenty more.
> 
> I'm not selling because I dislike it (same with the BS1 Official); I* just want to avoid winding up with a collection as I plan to buy the RW3000 soon.*


IKR? I just can't seem to help myself, even though I KNOW I gotta' have those RW3000's. I can't seem to get my "hobby" budget to move north for some reason...


----------



## feverfive

samandhi said:


> IKR? I just can't seem to help myself, even though I KNOW I gotta' have those RW3000's. I can't seem to get my "hobby" budget to move north for some reason...


I just see earbuds as the last realm of exploration for me in this (sometimes cursed, hahahaha) hobby.  I just plan to try something, then sell it and move along to the next.  No such thing as "endgame" in this (or any other, IMO) hobby, except for me, I simply do not want to end up having a large collection of unused gear.  My mind just can't wrap itself around the collecting side of hobbies, LOL.


----------



## samandhi

feverfive said:


> I just see earbuds as the last realm of exploration for me in this (sometimes cursed, hahahaha) hobby.  I just plan to try something, then sell it and move along to the next.  No such thing as "endgame" in this (or any other, IMO) hobby, except for me, I simply do not want to end up having a large collection of unused gear.  My mind just can't wrap itself around the collecting side of hobbies, LOL.


I live in the happy medium of your far left (or right) view. I like having a collection, but only to a point. There IS such thing as too many. Having some back-ups or compliments are IMO critical to my hobby pleasure.. 

As to end game, I believe there IS (for me) something out there. The Chaconne are end game, but only for particular music (though they DO sound really good to me on pretty much anything). The RW2000 are ALMOST there for all-rounders. I am hoping the RW3000 will be end game. Then I will do what you are doing and just buy some just to experiment or test the waters and pass them along. But I also respect your view on the subject, after all it keeps you enjoying the as you say "sometimes curse"... hobby.


----------



## baskingshark

samandhi said:


> I live in the happy medium of your far left (or right) view. I like having a collection, but only to a point. There IS such thing as too many. Having some back-ups or compliments are IMO critical to my hobby pleasure..
> 
> As to end game, I believe there IS (for me) something out there. The Chaconne are end game, but only for particular music (though they DO sound really good to me on pretty much anything). The RW2000 are ALMOST there for all-rounders. I am hoping the RW3000 will be end game. Then I will do what you are doing and just buy some just to experiment or test the waters and pass them along. But I also respect your view on the subject, after all it keeps you enjoying the as you say "sometimes curse"... hobby.





feverfive said:


> Honestly, I haven't used it nearly enough for me to give my opinions on it beyond saying I think it will need burn-in (if you believe in such).  My set has less than 15 hours on it, and I am sure it needs plenty more.
> 
> I'm not selling because I dislike it (same with the BS1 Official); I just want to avoid winding up with a collection as I plan to buy the RW3000 soon.



I have a sneaky feeling by the time we get to buy and receive the RW3000, perhaps a new hypetrain like the RW4000 will be released. That's how fast this CHIFI industry moves nowadays!


----------



## Chessnaudio

baskingshark said:


> I have a sneaky feeling by the time we get to buy and receive the RW3000, perhaps a new hypetrain like the RW4000 will be released. That's how fast this CHIFI industry moves nowadays!


Isn't it always? LOL. But earbuds seems to move slower than headphones and alot slower than iems in comparison


----------



## FranQL

baskingshark said:


> I have a sneaky feeling by the time we get to buy and receive the RW3000, perhaps a new hypetrain like the RW4000 will be released. That's how fast this CHIFI industry moves nowadays!



You can be calm, do not fear that they launch the RW4000, unless you can afford it....

In fact, if they continue with the chain, will it cost twice as much as the previous model, would it be €800?


----------



## baskingshark

FranQL said:


> You can be calm, do not fear that they launch the RW4000, unless you can afford it....
> 
> In fact, if they continue with the chain, will it cost twice as much as the previous model, would it be €800?



Ah but if u wait a few weeks after launch of a new IEM/earbud, the prices generally drop!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Feb 11, 2022)

Got to do my best to keep this short n' sweet so as to not take up all the bandwidth of the thread nor bore everyone to tears.


Svstem said:


> Thank you very much! I am very flattered to receive this thoughtful and kind comment. Indeed, my goal was to shed some light on those fairly mysterious things.


You are most welcome good man.


Svstem said:


> @WoodyLuvr
> You strike me as quite the expert on earbuds!


Far from it! More like an* "earbud encylopedia"* as *@RikudouGoku* likes to refer me as. I am extremely interested in earbuds since they first came out in the 1980s. I had a close relationship with _Sony_ & _Aiwa_ back in the early 1980s, as well as _Nakamichi_ and am well acquainted with a number of their well known audio engineers and designers e.g. Makoto Yamagishi. During this period, I was thoroughly exposed to most all of their products especially all things mobile audio. This being my fifth plus decade in the hobby, with an interlude of ten years from 1995 to 2006 where I nearly abandoned the hobby altogether (which I like to refer to as my 'dark ages'). So most definitely, there is a lot of knowledge & experience that sits in the ole' gray matter.


Svstem said:


> In my research, I have indeed found the “Petitphones” while writing the article. One thing I must mention is that it seems incredibly rare, which is why I chose to mention the E252 as a more significant release that launched flatheads to the mainstream. I wonder if anyone here has tried Petitphones though, would be very curious to read their impressions.


I owned and/or listened to nearly all the early golden era earbuds released from 1981 to 1991 by most all of the known active manufacturers of that period. Most of them, sound wise, are not really even worth mentioning anymore, seriously... especially, in comparison to what we have available to us today. Innovation (technology and design wise) well that is a whole other matter a subject worthy of much great discussion.

The early Trio-Kenwood earbuds were rather warm and sharply rolled off at both ends with wonky timbre but it was still an amazing feat to be able to carry a pair of transducers in one's pocket where ever one may go. Sony and Aiwa were pretty much the clear leaders in terms of both sound and build quality until the launch of the second stage of the RP-HV series by Technics - Panasonic in 1986/7 and the Denon AH-C series in 1986. Pioneer, Piezo, Audio-Technica, TEAC, JVC, and National (Panasonic) all had some nice offerings each with some class leading models but simply were not as well-known or seen as much back then.

It does seem though that back in the 1970s and 1980s we were more concerned about listening to the music rather than what are equipment sounded like so I remember liking most of what I heard back then. It wasn't until decades later when listening to these golden/silver age earbuds again did I notice drastic differences in sound quality and presentation. There are actually no Golden or Silver Era earbuds that remotely interest me in either performance, fit & comfort, or sound quality that can not be easily had from a modern sub $50 earbud. In fact, I would dare to say that a sub $30 Ks LBBs would easily do circles around 99% of these Golden to Silver Era earbuds. Thus why I no longer hunt, chase, and own vintage earbuds... but I digress.


Svstem said:


> I did not know that the last production year of the HV100 was 1991! These supply chain documents would also be a great read. I couldn’t dig that much information on the earbud during my search, so if you have anything more knowledge about these, I would be seriously interested.


Unfortunately, that debate regarding the *Technics RP-HV100* discontinuation date was a good fifteen plus years ago over on Japanese audiophile bulletin boards and forums that have long since been/gone defuncted. Besides some mentions I can find in my saved notes I don't have any specific copies of any of those documents (wish I did, sorry). I think it is safe to say though that availability of the *Technics RP-HV100 *ended sometime in mid-1992... whether or not last production & assembly was early as November 1991 or late as March 1992.


Svstem said:


> I sincerely appreciate your technical breakdown of the efficiency ratings of the HV100. I have qualified it as power hungry since it did seem to require a bit more juice than some of my other earbuds and IEMs to reach a similar loudness. I would be surprised if I’ve brought these past 110 dB, as my usual listening volumes vary between 75 to 90 dB averages (which I assume can peak up 100-105 dB, at the very loudest). I have a MiniDSP EARS I could use to estimate loudness, but I am uncertain how accurate the reading will be with the coupling.


Yes, accurate and consistent SPL readings are extremely difficult to ascertain from open-air/open-back designed earbuds for a number of technical reasons plus strangely enough a specific officially adopted coupler, for testing earbuds only, has never ever been designed and/or implemented by the industry as a standard to date. I guess the low cost of manufacturing earbuds and the various sized/shaped face plates/covers never warranted the development of a standardized coupler or coupling system that would/could work well with all. Even Sony & Aiwa back in the day were using jerry-rigged couplers to test frequency responses of their drivers and to their great dismay.


Svstem said:


> I must say that I was completely unaware of these design limitations along with the fragility of the drivers. If I may ask, what was your experience with HV100 failures – or any of those older earbuds failing? Was it usually the woofer or tweeter that was more susceptible? Also, are there ever any warning signs that the earphone is being stretched past its ability? Because throughout my listening, they have sounded effortlessly great!
> 
> All in all, fantastic input from you, you have taught me quite a bit. I would be curious to read some of your prior impressions on past experiences with earbuds!


In regards to the failures that I personally experienced with two pairs of *Technics RP-HV100* (yes, I foolishly ruined two pairs though they were not as highly priced back then as they are now.. thank goodness!) I burned/fused the voice coil on the tweeter both times. The woofers for me seemed to weather the overloading much better but a number of other collectors also experienced failed woofers as well.

In regards to the other coveted classic Golden/Silver Era earbuds from the likes of Sony, Aiwa, Nagaoka, Kenwood, etc. as well as, the failures reported and experienced by many of us were usually a combination of the following:

burned/fused voice coils (overloaded and burnt voice coils due to exceeding design power ratings)
separated voice coils (voice coils lift from the driver cone/diaphragm due to exceeding design power ratings)
torn, bent, deformed driver cones/diaphragms (repeated excessive driver travel due to exceeding design power ratings)
ungluing and other associated glue failures (due to excessive heat from overpowering and natural aging)
wire strains (micro-fractures) and wire shorts (mostly due to usage and natural aging)
moisture damage (exposure to humidity due to their open-air design combined with natural aging)
Unfortunately, in most cases there were very little to no warning signs (red flags) that indicated driver failure was imminent. Again, I must iterate they were so well built with quality materials that they conveyed 'ease of scaling' when in fact 'they were failing'. Thus the reason why so many of us ruined dozens and dozens of these classic earbuds over a six-month period when experimenting with scaling (higher amplification power). We belatedly came to the conclusion that besides our greatly over-exceeding their design limitations (both 'recommended' and 'allowable' ratings) that 'time' was also an important factor playing against the life spans of these earbuds. Although, superbly designed, engineered, and built like tanks the manufacturers had never intended for these products to be used for as long as they have been and were actually considered 'disposable items' not warranting repair and/or part replacement. So anything beyond ten years I am doubtful that the glues and materials were truly meant to hold up for that long, while being fully exposed to the elements due to their intrinsic open-air designs, let alone suffer the onslaught of over-amplification.

Again, taking into consideration the dual-driver and three magnet design of the *Technics RP-HV100 *and my own experience I sincerely believe that 100mW is the maximum power you want to visit upon them. Therefore, I would highly recommend that you carefully figure out the power output of your headAMP (headphone output) at different volume levels thus ensuring that you do not exceed ~1.6Vrms (~100mW @ ~60mA) whenever using your *Technics RP-HV100*. This should protect the drivers and best mitigate any reduction of it's already fragile life expectancy due to age.





well


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> Ah but if u wait a few weeks after launch of a new IEM/earbud, the prices generally drop!


Then they will be like $700, right?


----------



## Giru

Would some blessed soul kindly share more impressions, opinions and observations on the RW3000 (especially compared to the RW2000) please!!


----------



## syazwaned

Giru said:


> Would some blessed soul kindly share more impressions, opinions and observations on the RW3000 (especially compared to the RW2000) please!!


Yincrow 2021 flagship earbud model https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/yincrow-rw-3000.25600/


----------



## Giru

syazwaned said:


> Yincrow 2021 flagship earbud model https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/yincrow-rw-3000.25600/


Hey thanks, saw that one and it seems to be one of the few comparison around (in English). Some I found on erji but they don't translate so well. Would love to hear more about these buds. I have a dealer here that stocks the RW2000; just wanna know if I should instead consider the RW3000.


----------



## jogawag

Giru said:


> Would some blessed soul kindly share more impressions, opinions and observations on the RW3000 (especially compared to the RW2000) please!!


In a thread on earbuds in my country, there was a post that said: " I've got the RW-3000. I don't know what's going on here... I'll have to listen to it more to understand the difference. If you already have the RW-2000 and you're not sure about it, I'd say hold off on buying it."


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Giru said:


> Would some blessed soul kindly share more impressions, opinions and observations on the RW3000 (especially compared to the RW2000) please!!





Giru said:


> Hey thanks, saw that one and it seems to be one of the few comparison around (in English). Some I found on erji but they don't translate so well. Would love to hear more about these buds. I have a dealer here that stocks the RW2000; just wanna know if I should instead consider the RW3000.


Did you see *my post* a few days back?


syazwaned said:


> Yincrow 2021 flagship earbud model https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/yincrow-rw-3000.25600/


*@ClieOS* is most definitely the resident earbuds expert and his reviews have always been spot on in my experience.


----------



## Giru

jogawag said:


> In a thread on earbuds in my country, there was a post that said: " I've got the RW-3000. I don't know what's going on here... I'll have to listen to it more to understand the difference. If you already have the RW-2000 and you're not sure about it, I'd say hold off on buying it."


Oh I see. I don't have the RW2000 but looking to buy it. I just wanna know if the 3000 is worth the increase in price. The 2000 ain't cheap here as well. The 3000 should cost quite a bit more.



WoodyLuvr said:


> Did you see *my post* a few days back?
> 
> *@ClieOS* is most definitely the resident earbuds expert and his reviews have always been spot on in my experience.



Yes indeed, always found his (and your) reviews to be pretty much consistent with what I heard. 😁👍
Your impressions are surely helpful, I just wanted a few more. This will be my first (and hopefully the only; atleast for a while😅) TOTL earbud purchase. Given how expensive this is and the variations of fit and taste; don't wanna make a hasty decision😬


----------



## furyossa

Giru said:


> Oh I see. I don't have the RW2000 but looking to buy it. I just wanna know if the 3000 is worth the increase in price. The 2000 ain't cheap here as well. The 3000 should cost quite a bit more.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The post / impression by Mr Woody is everything that you need, and you probably won't be able to find a better description anywhere. Don't waste time and move on.


----------



## n00b

I think the RW-3000 have a pretty mild v-shape ‘fun’ signature with enough low end presence (mostly midbass impact, but still decent subbass extension. not crazy rumble though). I prefer them to the EM5 both in tonality and fit. I would recommend them over the Chaconne because they are more well rounded. I like them for kpop, pop, edm, r&b, etc. I don’t really listen to stuff with male vocals, rock, etc so I can’t comment there. 

Of the main branded buds I think they are worth considering at the $300 price point if anything because they have a more satisfying bass presentation/low end response than a lot of these more bright, midcentric buds we’re used to. I haven’t heard any other RW-X000 series to comment on that. With these chifi TOTL buds you will just likely have to take the gamble. Wait til March for aliexpress sales or something. I got mine from VS Audio Store which had a slightly cheaper price.


----------



## samandhi

n00b said:


> I think the RW-3000 have a pretty mild v-shape ‘fun’ signature with enough low end presence (mostly midbass impact, but still decent subbass extension. not crazy rumble though). I prefer them to the EM5 both in tonality and fit. I would recommend them over the Chaconne because they are more well rounded. I like them for kpop, pop, edm, r&b, etc. I don’t really listen to stuff with male vocals, rock, etc so I can’t comment there.
> 
> Of the main branded buds I think they are worth considering at the $300 price point if anything because they have a more satisfying bass presentation/low end response than a lot of these more bright, midcentric buds we’re used to. I haven’t heard any other RW-X000 series to comment on that. With these chifi TOTL buds you will just likely have to take the gamble. Wait til March for aliexpress sales or something. I got mine from VS Audio Store which had a slightly cheaper price.


Sounds like they don't sound too much different than the RW2000's (though I don't know that I would classify the RW2000 as V of any kind, they are pretty linear accross the board, except the mild boost in pina gain). I wonder if they didn't just refine the sound a bit more than the RW2000's? 

Kind of like they did with the Dunu DK2001 to the Dunu DK3001 Pro @WoodyLuvr don't you yell at me for saying that?!


----------



## Giru

furyossa said:


> The post / impression by Mr Woody is everything that you need, and you probably won't be able to find a better description anywhere. Don't waste time and move on.





n00b said:


> I think the RW-3000 have a pretty mild v-shape ‘fun’ signature with enough low end presence (mostly midbass impact, but still decent subbass extension. not crazy rumble though). I prefer them to the EM5 both in tonality and fit. I would recommend them over the Chaconne because they are more well rounded. I like them for kpop, pop, edm, r&b, etc. I don’t really listen to stuff with male vocals, rock, etc so I can’t comment there.
> 
> Of the main branded buds I think they are worth considering at the $300 price point if anything because they have a more satisfying bass presentation/low end response than a lot of these more bright, midcentric buds we’re used to. I haven’t heard any other RW-X000 series to comment on that. With these chifi TOTL buds you will just likely have to take the gamble. Wait til March for aliexpress sales or something. I got mine from VS Audio Store which had a slightly cheaper price.


Excellent! I think I have what I need! Thank mate!



samandhi said:


> Sounds like they don't sound too much different than the RW2000's (though I don't know that I would classify the RW2000 as V of any kind, they are pretty linear accross the board, except the mild boost in pina gain). I wonder if they didn't just refine the sound a bit more than the RW2000's?
> 
> Kind of like they did with the Dunu DK2001 to the Dunu DK3001 Pro @WoodyLuvr don't you yell at me for saying that?!


Oh here we go again!


----------



## n00b

samandhi said:


> Sounds like they don't sound too much different than the RW2000's (though I don't know that I would classify the RW2000 as V of any kind, they are pretty linear accross the board, except the mild boost in pina gain). I wonder if they didn't just refine the sound a bit more than the RW2000's?
> 
> Kind of like they did with the Dunu DK2001 to the Dunu DK3001 Pro @WoodyLuvr don't you yell at me for saying that?!


right, perhaps i shouldnt have said ‘mild v-shape’ more so than it just has decent extension on both ends and isn’t lacking in bass (if anything, slightly warm). Very versatile sound sig but I think a lot of the cost goes into the titanium shell, MMCX connector, etc and not strictly sonic performance.


----------



## samandhi

n00b said:


> right, perhaps i shouldnt have said ‘mild v-shape’ more so than it just has decent extension on both ends and isn’t lacking in bass (if anything, slightly warm). Very versatile sound sig but I think a lot of the cost goes into the titanium shell, MMCX connector, etc and not strictly sonic performance.


If the cable is as good (or better) than the RW2000, then I think they have the best "stock" cable that I have ever seen on earbuds. One of the reasons I love the RW2000 so much is also because they are versatile (all-rounders). I can't say I have found anything that sounds horrible on them. Being just warm of neutral, even fairly poor recordings will not punish your ears on them. But, as you said earlier, I love that they don't over boost the pina gain like most of the buds I have heard thus far (not sure why they persist in making the overall signature skewed by doing this?!). It's not that that is a bad thing, mind you, but to have a full rich sound in an earbud is pretty refreshing to my ears. 

I know it is early in your ownership, but have you found anything that you DON'T like about them to this point?


----------



## n00b

I actually havent used the stock cable at all with it, but no, I quite enjoy them and haven’t found anything glaring. I would love a bit more rumble at the lowest notes but that kind of bass probably isn’t feasible with a titanium shell vs a plastic MX500. The fit isn’t the most secure but part of it might be from how heavy MMCX equipped cables tend to be versus directly soldered thinner gauge cables. The fit is still leagues ahead of EM5 and Chaconne though, and with the ability to wear over the ear, I think it’ll be hard to find people who can’t fit these properly. I don’t even need to use Hiegi foams to get good bass quantity, fullness, note weight out of them. Solid set, you just have to be okay with paying $300 or so. If you’re budget conscious, don‘t even waste the mental energy trying to justify something like this. Maybe just pick up K’s K64 or something haha


----------



## syazwaned

n00b said:


> I actually havent used the stock cable at all with it, but no, I quite enjoy them and haven’t found anything glaring. I would love a bit more rumble at the lowest notes but that kind of bass probably isn’t feasible with a titanium shell vs a plastic MX500. The fit isn’t the most secure but part of it might be from how heavy MMCX equipped cables tend to be versus directly soldered thinner gauge cables. The fit is still leagues ahead of EM5 and Chaconne though, and with the ability to wear over the ear, I think it’ll be hard to find people who can’t fit these properly. I don’t even need to use Hiegi foams to get good bass quantity, fullness, note weight out of them. Solid set, you just have to be okay with paying $300 or so. If you’re budget conscious, don‘t even waste the mental energy trying to justify something like this. Maybe just pick up K’s K64 or something haha




What earbud had the bass rumble ya? I love my Chaconne, going to have fiio em5 soon, but I sometime hungry for some earth shaking bass 😂. I know IEM is better for rumbling bass, just wonder if earbuds can exhibit something like that.


----------



## samandhi

syazwaned said:


> What earbud had the bass rumble ya? I love my Chaconne, going to have fiio em5 soon, but I sometime hungry for some earth shaking bass 😂. I know IEM is better for rumbling bass, just wonder if earbuds can exhibit something like that.


Some can IMO, though I don't think you will find many that are tuned that way OOTB. You will need to use some EQ. For instance, the Maria II can really handle a ton of (EQ'ed) bass. Smabat ST10S Gold can also handle some manipulation in the sub range to get some pretty good rumble if you do desire.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 5, 2022)

I humbly would like to offer some '_food for thought_' in regards to sound signatures especially in regards to flathead earbuds.

*A BRIEF STUDY OF FLATHEAD EARBUD SOUND SIGNATURES*
Although, flathead earbuds may and do exhibit *strong/weak secondary* and/or *complementing/opposing tertiary* signatures that when combined may reach out towards a *U-Shaped* and *V-Shaped* type tuning, their *primary sound signature* are generally *Mid-Centric *which is inherent of and intrinsic to their open-air (open-back like) design.

Thus, explaining why flatheads tend to lean more heavily towards mid-forward *W-Shaped* type tuning. Often forgotten and/or misunderstood a *W-Shaped* sound signature type is one that has emphasized bass, a specific midrange frequency, and treble (lows, mids, & highs)... completely opposite of a *Flat* sound signature that doesn't have any emphasized lows, mids, and highs.

Simply put, *W-Shaped* is a *V-Shaped* signature with pronounced *Mid-Centric* (mid-forward) traits somewhere in the mid-range but not across the entire mid-range frequencies.

Therefore, when a flathead earbud exhibits a *V-Shaped* signature type please consider that perhaps it is more than likely a *primary* *W-Shaped* characteristic that is being heard instead. Not to say, that in certain cases, that some earbuds are not displaying a rather *strong secondary *signature reaching out to *V-Shaped* because they very well may indeed be! My point is that one should first consider *W-Shaped* as being the exhibited signature as it is, more likely than not, the correct choice being both a strong *Mid-Centric* identifier and a common* primary sound signature* for a many earbud to date.


*SOUND SIGNATURE CHART*
It is crucial that you do not interpret this chart two-dimensionally but rather three-dimensionally using all axes offered. Optimally, this would be best presented as a sphere but in turn that would make it difficult to clearly see and read all the labels and sections. Thus, we are limited to two-dimensions for the sake of presentation and clarity. Please note that I tried my best to stick to the "classic" (more basic) sound signature & tuning characteristic definitions as used by recording professionals & audio engineers.

*Sound Signature Chart* _- Multi-Axis Interpretation_




*Sound Signature Chart by Earphone Transducer Type* _- Showing the general area where the *primary sound signature* *plot* may fall by different transducer medium types._


​*Ks Bell-LBBs Sound Signature Chart*



_Primary_ = *Mid-Centric - Neutral*
_Secondary (Strong)_ = *Warm *(not muddy, nor muffled)
_Secondary (Weak)_ = *Sharp & Detailed*
_Tertiary (Complementing) _= *Hard-Harsh *(enhanced female vocals; sometimes aggressive though)
_Tertiary (Alternative Complementing) _= *Forward Mids - W-Shaped *(while others may only hear a slight *"Inverted U-Shaped"* instead)
_Tertiary (Opposing)_ = *Hard-Harsh *(not overly bright-sibilant it can get "too exciting" for those sensitive to highs)
_Tertiary (Opposing) _= *Thin & Tinny *(prone to aggressiveness)

The *primary sound signature* _(red dot and red-shaded oval)_ of the* Ks Bell-LBBs* is "*mid-centric - neutral*" that may offer an ever so slight "*inverted u-shaped*" type tuning with a very *strong secondary sound signature*_ (larger blue shaded balloon) _that reaches out to "*warm*" but is far from being muddy, smeared, or muffled. A non-overpowering *weak secondary sound signature*_ (smaller blue shaded balloon) _reaches out to "*detailed*" for greater resolution and more realistic, natural-sounding timbre. Prominent *complementing tertiary sound characteristics *_(green shaded arrows)_ are exhibited in the upper mids and very lower treble that may/can come across as being rather "_*hard-harsh*_" but in-turn also provides enhanced female vocals and reproduction of bright-leaning instruments. Due to mildly recessed mid and upper highs a sneaky and quite "*aggressive*" ("*thin & tinny*") *opposing tertiary sound characteristic *_(green shaded arrow)_ may rear it's ugly head occasionally with certain recordings and music genres. Some individuals may hear an *alternative* *complementing tertiary sound characteristics *_(purple shaded arrow) _which reaches down to *forward mids* ("*w-shaped*" type sound) while others may hear only a very slight "*inverted u-shaped*" type tuning (I sit in this camp).


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> I humbly would like to offer some '_food for thought_' in regards to sound signatures especially by headphone transducer type.
> 
> Although, earbuds do exhibit *strong/weak secondary* and/or *complimenting/opposing tertiary* signatures that may reach out towards *U-Shaped* and *V-Shaped* tuning, their *primary* signature are generally and heavily *Mid-Centric *which is inherent of and intrinsic to their open-air (open-back like) design. Thus, explaining why earbuds tend to lean more heavily towards *W-Shaped* mid-forward sounding tuning. Often forgotten and/or misunderstood a *W-Shaped* sound signature is one that has emphasized bass, midrange, and treble (lows, mids, & highs)... completely opposite of a *Flat* sound signature that doesn't have emphasized lows, mids, or highs.
> 
> ...


Very well put sir!


----------



## n00b

syazwaned said:


> What earbud had the bass rumble ya? I love my Chaconne, going to have fiio em5 soon, but I sometime hungry for some earth shaking bass 😂. I know IEM is better for rumbling bass, just wonder if earbuds can exhibit something like that.


After swapping to a 4.4mm cable to run them balanced and over the ear, the RW-3000 do hit pretty deep actually. But I find it’s easier to just tune/DIY drivers to get the sound signatures I like, rumble included. Hard to get that from factory tuned manufactured buds


----------



## RikudouGoku

DIY 3d printed buds from @ValSuki, hybrid between a MX500 and the Qian39 shell.


----------



## samandhi

RikudouGoku said:


> DIY 3d printed buds from @ValSuki, hybrid between a MX500 and the Qian39 shell.


Those are cool! I still can't wait to see/hear those planar buds @ ValSuki  was talking about.


----------



## syazwaned

whoa 


RikudouGoku said:


> DIY 3d printed buds from @ValSuki, hybrid between a MX500 and the Qian39 shell.




Whoa a planar earbuds?


----------



## samandhi

syazwaned said:


> whoa
> 
> 
> 
> Whoa a planar earbuds?


Yep, some pages back this was posted:



ValSuki said:


> Hey all!
> I have a few earbud projects in mind but lately some communities who have known me made jokes on this, but i am going to develop a planar earbud.
> 
> _*Why? *_
> ...


----------



## WoodyLuvr

samandhi said:


> Those are cool! I still can't wait to see/hear those planar buds @ ValSuki  was talking about.





syazwaned said:


> whoa
> 
> Whoa a planar earbuds?





samandhi said:


> Yep, some pages back this was posted:


I believe that is on the back burner for the moment as he shelved the project until he has completed more in-depth research on planar magnetic design.


----------



## syazwaned

Thanks @WoodyLuvr @samandhi @n00b for the input. Appreciate it Sorry I dont really know how to use the multi quotes function hehe


----------



## Lionlian

Faaeal Datura Pro with  VE Monk Plus foam is totally fabulous!! (better than most donut foam)

bass is increase 4x level higher, while mid and high is tame to be more refinement (less shouty but still same level of loundness)


totally recommended it!! (also can buy VE MONK EX FOAM pack too)


----------



## samandhi

syazwaned said:


> Thanks @WoodyLuvr @samandhi @n00b for the input. Appreciate it Sorry I dont really know how to use the multi quotes function hehe


Any time!

If you click quote below the person's name that you want to quote; you can do this as many times as you want, then down at the bottom of the page where you write your reply, click the button "Insert Quotes". A new pop-up will come up where you can choose the quotes you want to insert, or the bottom button will insert all of them. Hope that helps?!


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> I believe that is on the back burner for the moment as he shelved the project until he has completed more in-depth research on planar magnetic design.


I can live with that. I think having done one's "homework" on a product they plan to produce will make it better in the end; even though a throw-together project might be fun to play with in the meantime.


----------



## ValSuki

WoodyLuvr said:


> I believe that is on the back burner for the moment as he shelved the project until he has completed more in-depth research on planar magnetic design.





samandhi said:


> I can live with that. I think having done one's "homework" on a product they plan to produce will make it better in the end; even though a throw-together project might be fun to play with in the meantime.



That is true! I want to make the planar earbuds as good as they can be, rather than a gimmick. My biggest issue is getting a seal around an ear while having the openness of a bud that doesn't actually go inside the ear canal. I have some ideas thankfully! Stay tuned.


----------



## samandhi

ValSuki said:


> That is true! I want to make the planar earbuds as good as they can be, rather than a gimmick. My biggest issue is getting a seal around an ear while having the openness of a bud that doesn't actually go inside the ear canal. I have some ideas thankfully! Stay tuned.


Dunu's solution (although it doesn't seal, it is directional and works very well for a DD and BA set of buds). the DD comes from the flat piece, and the BA sound comes from the directional tube. Pictures after the text:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/brief-impression-of-dunu-topsound-alpha-1-hybrid-earbud.748141/

I realize this is a total different problem to engineer around acoustically, but I figure any inspiration from other sources might actually give you choices you might not have otherwise had. Discard the ones that don't fit your goal.


----------



## Narayan23

RikudouGoku said:


> DIY 3d printed buds from @ValSuki, hybrid between a MX500 and the Qian39 shell.


Have you listened to them yet?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Narayan23 said:


> Have you listened to them yet?


It was mainly to test the shell, the driver is pretty meh. 

Also got the MOT classification so I cant talk about buds anymore. (at least here lol.)


----------



## FranQL (Feb 12, 2022)

ValSuki said:


> That is true! I want to make the planar earbuds as good as they can be, rather than a gimmick. My biggest issue is getting a seal around an ear while having the openness of a bud that doesn't actually go inside the ear canal. I have some ideas thankfully! Stay tuned.



but while the driver costs €120.... no experimented in that area


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Anybody have heard the *HZsound Bell Rhyme* here? if so, whats your take??


I'm amaze by the imaging, clarity, realist timbre. Attack is freaking fast too...this 15mm DD is something special evne if i would like a bit more treble extension-sparkle, level of micro-details is still on high side. It pack some punch too, but its no basshead earbud and to achieve bass you need thigh fit...

Piano and female vocal have great presence and weight. It remind me a bit the Moondrop Nameless but with better thicker timbre and more weight.

I test them with TRI TK2 and Xduoo XD05+. They benefit from extra juice but are easy to drive enough too.

Anyway, it make lotta time i didnt test i new earbuds and now it put the spell on me to dig other new gems. This one is certainly a keeper.


----------



## FranQL (Feb 12, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> Also got the MOT classification so I cant talk about buds anymore. (at least here lol.)



Why?????


----------



## RikudouGoku

FranQL said:


> Why?????


I am going to sell my own DIY buds sooner/later. 
im in my "R/D" phase atm.


----------



## FranQL

RikudouGoku said:


> I am going to sell my own DIY buds sooner/later.
> im in my "R/D" phase atm.



S++++++++++?

I think it's a very interesting step! I look forward to seeing your creations and progress.

good luck!


----------



## RikudouGoku

FranQL said:


> I think it's a very interesting step! I look forward to seeing your creations and progress.


Join my discord server, thats where I talk more about it. (MOT Rules sucks)

https://discord.gg/GpJJVRx5GQ


----------



## Narayan23

RikudouGoku said:


> I am going to sell my own DIY buds sooner/later.
> im in my "R/D" phase atm.


This is great news!!! Knowing your good taste and preferences I´m sure you´ll put out some great products at non stratospheric prices. Have you got any estimate on when these will come to market?


----------



## RikudouGoku (Feb 12, 2022)

Narayan23 said:


> This is great news!!! Knowing your good taste and preferences I´m sure you´ll put out some great products at non stratospheric prices. Have you got any estimate on when these will come to market?


No clue, it depends on how long it takes for me to find something worthy of my name. 

Although i am not sure it will be cheap, as i have already spent a few hundred dollars on r/d....

Maybe starting from 50 usd.


----------



## Narayan23

RikudouGoku said:


> No clue, it depends on how long it takes for me to find something worthy of my name.
> 
> Although i am not sure it will be cheap, as i have already spent a few hundred dollars on r/d....
> 
> Maybe starting from 50 usd.


I´m well aware nothing with your name on it will be cheap in price or sound, just hoping you can conjure your magic at under 75-80 usd but if you produce something extraordinary above that price range I´ll also be most interested. The wait begins.


----------



## Duqs

So I have NiceCHK B40, NiceCHK EB2S, VE Monk Plus, VE Monk SM Metal, LBBS and the EB2S is the winner. LBBS is most comfortable and ... interesting, but too sharp sibilants and the scoop in the mids are a problem for me.

NiceHCK EB2S is the best of all, a bit bass bleed into the lower mids but the vocals are ok for me, some sibilants in the highs but also ok. 

I just checked https://rg.squig.link/earbuds and only the Blur MX64 OFC STE have decisive different (more moderate) lower mids.
Is there anything else like that on the market? Show me my next upgrade


----------



## samandhi

RikudouGoku said:


> It was mainly to test the shell, the driver is pretty meh.
> 
> Also got the MOT classification so I cant talk about buds anymore. (at least here lol.)


So you now have a classification with the Ministry of Transport? 

Seriously, I am also looking forward to seeing what you come up with. Good luck sir!


Duqs said:


> So I have NiceCHK B40, NiceCHK EB2S, VE Monk Plus, VE Monk SM Metal, LBBS and the EB2S is the winner. LBBS is most comfortable and ... interesting, but too sharp sibilants and the scoop in the mids are a problem for me.
> 
> NiceHCK EB2S is the best of all, a bit bass bleed into the lower mids but the vocals are ok for me, some sibilants in the highs but also ok.
> 
> ...


If you like the EB2S, maybe you should pick up the Smabat M2s Pro (stock 40ohm driver). They are tuned very very similar, but the Smabat are just better at it in every way IMO. They are more expensive, but I don't think by too much. 

They have more quantity of bass, and the pina gain is a bit less (to my ears). Though, that may just sound that way due to having fuller bass. Soundstage is much wider, and imaging is better. There is no grain in the upper end. Layering is much better; busy tracks is where this shows in an obvious way. Plus, if your cable gets trashed, you can simply change them. Also, if you don't like (or want to experiment) the stock driver (and filters), you can buy kits to change them out. Win/win IMHO!

I don't know what the other drivers sound like, but I also own the ST10S Gold (150 ohm driver), that is reportedly used in the 150 ohm upgrade driver for the M2s Pro. The ST10S sound totally different than the M2s Pro w/stock driver IMO, so I can't really say one way or the other about that. I think @Ronion has the upgrade driver kits for the M2s Pro. If you are interested maybe he could better talk about them. 

YMMV, but I own both (EB2S and M2s Pro) and think all of the above is true to the best of my ability to A/B...


----------



## RikudouGoku

samandhi said:


> Seriously, I am also looking forward to seeing what you come up with. Good luck sir!


Thanks!




samandhi said:


> If you like the EB2S, maybe you should pick up the Smabat M2s Pro (stock 40ohm driver). They are tuned very very similar, but the Smabat are just better at it in every way IMO. They are more expensive, but I don't think by too much.


Nah, they are very different.


----------



## samandhi

RikudouGoku said:


> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, they are very different.


I digress. My ears must be old and decrepit from all the years of sonic punishment.


----------



## Chessnaudio

Has anyone had a proper listen to the Rose technics Martini and compared it with the Moondrop Chaconne?


----------



## Chessnaudio

RikudouGoku said:


> It was mainly to test the shell, the driver is pretty meh.
> 
> Also got the MOT classification so I cant talk about buds anymore. (at least here lol.)


Looking foward! I'm sure it will be great. We can see down the line collabs with established brands as He who shall not be named on Head-fi has done with iems. Good luck, and I wish you all the best in establishing an income out of this. Though we all know you need that audio heart to start this in the first place. Blessings on this endeavor and that you never lose your enthusiasm.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Chessnaudio said:


> We can see down the line collabs with established brands as He who shall not be named on Head-fi has done with iems


It probably take a long time (if it will happen at all) for established brands to do collabs with reviewers/reputable people in the bud world, we are a niche of a niche after all...


----------



## DBaldock9 (Feb 14, 2022)

The Smabat ST-20 that I pre-ordered last year, arrived in the mail last Tuesday.
I've been listening to them during this past week, to find how they compare to my ST-10 (Gold/Black, 300-Ω (yes, mine are 300-Ω).
The ST-10 does seem to fit a little bit more securely in my ears.
The ST-20 seems to have a bit more Midrange, which means a slightly more balanced sound.

*EDIT: Actually comparing against the ST-10s *


----------



## syazwaned

DBaldock9 said:


> The Smabat ST-20 that I pre-ordered last year, arrived in the mail last Tuesday.
> I've been listening to them during this past week, to find how they compare to my ST-10 (Gold/Black, 300-Ω (yes, mine are 300-Ω).
> The ST-10 does seem to fit a little bit more securely in my ears.
> The ST-20 seems to have a bit more Midrange, which means a slightly more balanced sound.


How is the bass impact on st20?


----------



## DBaldock9

syazwaned said:


> How is the bass impact on st20?



When they're positioned well in my ears, the Bass impact is as good as, or better than, the ST-10s. The Sub-Bass may even go lower. 

The Bass realism was sounding similar to my Ks 600.


----------



## syazwaned

DBaldock9 said:


> When they're positioned well in my ears, the Bass impact is as good as, or better than, the ST-10s. The Sub-Bass may even go lower.
> 
> The Bass realism was sounding similar to my Ks 600.


Nice, just what I wanted it to be!


----------



## re23071998

DBaldock9 said:


> The Smabat ST-20 that I pre-ordered last year, arrived in the mail last Tuesday.
> I've been listening to them during this past week, to find how they compare to my ST-10 (Gold/Black, 300-Ω (yes, mine are 300-Ω).
> The ST-10 does seem to fit a little bit more securely in my ears.
> The ST-20 seems to have a bit more Midrange, which means a slightly more balanced sound.
> ...


any advantages of the rear drivers design?
does it affect the stage and separation?


----------



## Narayan23

Chessnaudio said:


> Looking foward! I'm sure it will be great. We can see down the line collabs with established brands as *He who shall not be named on Head-fi* has done with iems. Good luck, and I wish you all the best in establishing an income out of this. Though we all know you need that audio heart to start this in the first place. Blessings on this endeavor and that you never lose your enthusiasm.


I suspect who this might be, what happened for him to be unnameable? Please respond via pm if its more comfortable for you.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Feb 14, 2022)

DBaldock9 said:


> The Smabat ST-20 that I pre-ordered last year, arrived in the mail last Tuesday.
> I've been listening to them during this past week, to find how they compare to my ST-10 (Gold/Black, 300-Ω (yes, mine are 300-Ω).
> The ST-10 does seem to fit a little bit more securely in my ears.
> The ST-20 seems to have a bit more Midrange, which means a slightly more balanced sound.
> ...


With this increased midrange and more balanced sound do you find that the timbre is more natural sounding compared to your Smabat ST-10S Black-Gold? Overall is it a better and improved signature?

Not everyone is sensitive to it but a number of us have noted that besides the slightly 'off', metallic sounding timbre that there is something goofy happening around 3Khz that also made it rather fatiguing (a tad aggressive; tinny sounding).

Just curious to hear your thoughts and findings in this regards as both the bass slam and sub-bass rumble is so incredible on the ST-10S that it would be wonderful to hear that the ST-20 has somehow rectified these other issues limited to those of us sensitive to naughty highs.


----------



## Chessnaudio (Feb 15, 2022)

Narayan23 said:


> I suspect who this might be, what happened for him to be unnameable? Please respond via pm if its more comfortable for you.


Lol. I was just making a joke. It's BGGAR. I follow him on Hifiguides. @RikudouGoku knew exactly what I meant. I don't know the details, and I do not care. My impressions of BGGAR is a straight shooter and uncompromising in his evaluations. Some people more in it for the money get annoyed at his unvarnished opinions. Remember while the Earbud thread, thank God, is docile and normal; other threads here get pretty heated at times.


----------



## mochill

I'll be getting st20 in a few days 😁


----------



## DBaldock9

WoodyLuvr said:


> With this increased midrange and more balanced sound do you find that the timbre is more natural sounding compared to your Smabat ST-10S Black-Gold? Overall is it a better and improved signature?
> 
> Not everyone is sensitive to it but a number of us have noted that besides the slightly 'off', metallic sounding timbre that there is something goofy happening around 3Khz that also made it rather fatiguing (a tad aggressive; tinny sounding).
> 
> Just curious to hear your thoughts and findings in this regards as both the bass slam and sub-bass rumble is so incredible on the ST-10S that it would be wonderful to hear that the ST-20 has somehow rectified these other issues limited to those of us sensitive to naughty highs.



Can you provide examples of music tracks that you think sound "off", when listened to with the ST-10s?  Thanks!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

DBaldock9 said:


> Can you provide examples of music tracks that you think sound "off", when listened to with the ST-10s?  Thanks!


Unfortunately, I no longer own the ST-10S so I guess we come to a dead end at this point... unless, someone else on board here who reported the same issues who still owns them can offer up some tracks (which would be awfully kind).

It was not a matter of my "thinking" but rather my "hearing" that the timbre was off, metallic and fatiguingly sibilant at around 3Khz. We all hear differently.  

Thank you for responding nonetheless. Have a great one!


----------



## baskingshark

WoodyLuvr said:


> Unfortunately, I no longer own the ST-10S so I guess we come to a dead end at this point... unless, someone else on board here who reported the same issues who still owns them can offer up some tracks (which would be awfully kind).
> 
> It was not a matter of my "thinking" but rather my "hearing" that the timbre was off, metallic and fatiguingly sibilant at around 3Khz. We all hear differently.
> 
> Thank you for responding nonetheless. Have a great one!



I'm waiting for the ST20 to arrive, it is somewhere in the air now. I still have the original Smabat ST10 and ST10S Black Gold that I bought previously, will do some A/B comparisons with ST20 when it comes!

I do agree the ST10 and ST10S Black Gold have a little peak around 3 kHz but they do have big sub-bass for a earbud, which is rare in the earbud world. In terms of timbral accuracy yeah both sets are not classleading for acoustic instruments/vocals.


BTW anybody bought the ST20 Pro? The one with the BA inside? Wonder whether this can be successfully implemented?


----------



## Kamen555 (Feb 15, 2022)

Oops wrong group.


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> I'm waiting for the ST20 to arrive, it is somewhere in the air now. I still have the original Smabat ST10 and ST10S Black Gold that I bought previously, will do some A/B comparisons with ST20 when it comes!
> 
> I do agree the ST10 and ST10S Black Gold have a little peak around 3 kHz but they do have big sub-bass for a earbud, which is rare in the earbud world. In terms of timbral accuracy yeah both sets are not classleading for acoustic instruments/vocals.
> 
> ...


As for Smabat specifically, I can't answer, but Dunu did it with the Alpha 1, and according to my ears (and the reviews of the time), they seemed to be successful (overall similar to the Maria II tuning).

I also agree with your assessment (at least regarding the ST10S Gold). They are a bit peaky in 3kHz, big sub-bass, and something seems pulled out from somewhere in the middle (though I am not sure it is vocals, maybe it is in the upper low end?!).


----------



## RikudouGoku

4 hours until official reveal.


----------



## RikudouGoku

https://web.archive.org/web/2022021...ews.com/test/headphones/sony-linkbuds-wf-l900


----------



## calcatreppola

Kamen555 said:


> Oops wrong group.


this group is never wrong  please give it a try!


----------



## RikudouGoku

Maybe I will buy one myself....


----------



## mtl171

RikudouGoku said:


> Maybe I will buy one myself....



I really interested. They remind me of a more open AirPod. 5.5 hour battery life is a bit of a bummer but the ring design is quite intriguing. Seems like it’d be a nice compliment with ANC headphones.


----------



## rkw

RikudouGoku said:


> https://web.archive.org/web/2022021...ews.com/test/headphones/sony-linkbuds-wf-l900


Another review came to similar conclusions — innovative, comfortable design but deficient bass. Not surprising due to the complete lack of ear seal (even less than regular loose fitting earbuds).
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/02/sony-linkbuds-announced-price-features/


----------



## RikudouGoku

rkw said:


> Another review came to similar conclusions — innovative, comfortable design but deficient bass. Not surprising due to the complete lack of ear seal (even less than regular loose fitting earbuds).
> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/02/sony-linkbuds-announced-price-features/


I suspect most of these tech reviewers are used to iems, so its not a surprise they find the bass lacking.


----------



## samandhi (Feb 15, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> I suspect most of these tech reviewers are used to iems, so its not a surprise they find the bass lacking.


IEMs or TWS. There is only two pairs of TWS that I have ever tried that don't have boosted bass (Nuarl N6 Pro and Hifiman TWS600), and even though they are a nuetral bass, they are still more quantity than most buds. I suppose these new ones would fall into the category of TWS. True wireless earbuds rather than IEMs albeit.


----------



## RikudouGoku

samandhi said:


> IEMs or TWS. There is only two pairs of TWS that I have ever tried that don't have boosted bass (Nuarl N6 Pro and Hifiman TWS600), and even though they are a nuetral bass, they are still more quantity than most buds. I suppose these new ones would fall into the category of TWS. True wireless earbuds rather than IEMs albeit.


Tws have boosted bass to compensate for outdoor environment.


----------



## samandhi

RikudouGoku said:


> Tws have boosted bass to compensate for outdoor environment.


My point.


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> I suspect most of these tech reviewers are used to iems, so its not a surprise they find the bass lacking.


Agreed. 

Just listened to Linus give his take on the linkbuds. Sounded convincing to me. Now the waiting begins...


----------



## Kamen555

mtl171 said:


> I really interested. They remind me of a more open AirPod. 5.5 hour battery life is a bit of a bummer but the ring design is quite intriguing. Seems like it’d be a nice compliment with ANC headphones.


The design seemed familiar.
You guys remember these? From a few years ago I think... Xperia Ear Duo?


----------



## samandhi

RikudouGoku said:


> https://web.archive.org/web/2022021...ews.com/test/headphones/sony-linkbuds-wf-l900


I noticed that in the specs section he says they support AptX. They do not, only SBC and AAC for these. That said, I decided I will be a Guinee pig for this one. If they sound decent, they would work perfectly for my work.

I work in mechanical/boiler rooms, and need to hear ambient sounds, and voices. This is more of a timing thing to me, because if the Fiio UTWS5 had been available on Amazon, I would probably not have bought the Sony Linkbuds. I was planning on getting the UTWS5 so that I can use with both earbuds and IEMs. They have ambient mode, so I would have openness for both. So, we'll see how it goes?!


----------



## assassin10000

Sam L said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Just listened to Linus give his take on the linkbuds. Sounded convincing to me. Now the waiting begins...





samandhi said:


> I noticed that in the specs section he says they support AptX. They do not, only SBC and AAC for these. That said, I decided I will be a Guinee pig for this one. If they sound decent, they would work perfectly for my work.
> 
> I work in mechanical/boiler rooms, and need to hear ambient sounds, and voices. This is more of a timing thing to me, because if the Fiio UTWS5 had been available on Amazon, I would probably not have bought the Sony Linkbuds. I was planning on getting the UTWS5 so that I can use with both earbuds and IEMs. They have ambient mode, so I would have openness for both. So, we'll see how it goes?!



Either of you have the Buds Live to compare with?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Feb 16, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> I suspect most of these tech reviewers are used to iems, so its not a surprise they find the bass lacking.


Even more surprising to me is that in these situations such reviewers tend to only take into consideration bass impact (slam and punch) and/or depth (sub-bass) which is greatly affected by "fitting seal" but say nothing at all about bass resolution (the resolving detail and natural timbre of the bass) which is less affected by "fitting seal" and more so by driver design, quality, and tuning. Although earbuds, more often than not, are indeed very lacking in both bass impact and depth, their open-air design offers excellent natural sounding timbre and quite superb resolution which in-turn provides excellently accurate bass resolution. And with very little "fitting seal" required; less so than what is required by an IEM. Often times earbuds may and do trump IEMs in this regards (bass resolution). Case in point... with the bass/timpani drum, double bass, and cello their timbre and detail in the lower frequencies is not always quite right with IEMs although the impact and depth is indeed most definitely there (and wondrously at that!) they are often not accurate (natural sounding) in the bass registers. Even synth bass sounds through certain IEMS can exhibit wonky bass registers (to the point of distortion) and/or muddying timbre (the mixing and complete loss of separation between different bass sounds that are supposed to be distinct and apart). Every transducer type has it's cons but also has it's pros... it just is conveniently and often forgotten when it comes to earbuds.


----------



## Sam L

assassin10000 said:


> Either of you have the Buds Live to compare with?



Yep I have the buds live as well. I'll post up some quick impressions as soon as I get the linkbuds. I've been waiting for the utws5 as well, but didn't know they had ambient mode (makes me want them even more, especially to use with a certain DIY 120ohm bery that a well known buds tinkerer assembled for me.)


----------



## Sam L

WoodyLuvr said:


> Even more surprising to me is that in these situations such reviewers tend to only take into consideration bass impact (slam and punch) and/or depth (sub-bass) which is greatly affected by "fitting seal" but say nothing at all about bass resolution (the resolving detail and natural timbre of the bass) which is less affected by "fitting seal" and more so by driver design, quality, and tuning. Although earbuds, more often than not, are indeed very lacking in both bass impact and depth, their open-air design offers excellent natural sounding timbre and quite superb resolution which in-turn provides excellently accurate bass resolution. And with very little "fitting seal" required; less so than what is required by an IEM. Often times earbuds may and do trump IEMs in this regards (bass resolution). Case in point... with the bass/timpani drum, double bass, and cello their timbre and detail in the lower frequencies is not always quite right with IEMs although the impact and depth is indeed most definitely there (and wondrously at that!) they are often not accurate (natural sounding) in the bass registers. Even synth bass sounds through certain IEMS can exhibit wonky bass registers (to the point of distortion) and/or muddying timbre (the mixing and complete loss of separation between different bass sounds that are supposed to be distinct and apart). Every transducer type has it's cons but also has it's pros... it just is conveniently and often forgotten when it comes to earbuds.


a post worth saving, lots of great observations and insight!

Fully agree with your qualitative assessment of how earbuds render bass, which is why I love them as my main listening genre is classical music. I also think buds, in general, convey live classical music more accurately than iems. I still appreciate iems (my last 4 or 5 purchases inside of a month were all iems) but live classical music is rendered artificially compared to a decent earbud -- and not just the bass, the treble as well, which is why I can't stand electrostatics (but I'm willing to give the s12 a chance).


----------



## Sam L

Today's work from home earbud...

I wouldn't recommend this because of the amount of work needed but wow, pure awesomeness. For Mac users:

*This:*




*Plus this:*


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Even more surprising to me is that in these situations such reviewers tend to only take into consideration bass impact (slam and punch) and/or depth (sub-bass) which is greatly affected by "fitting seal" but say nothing at all about bass resolution (the resolving detail and natural timbre of the bass) which is less affected by "fitting seal" and more so by driver design, quality, and tuning. Although earbuds, more often than not, are indeed very lacking in both bass impact and depth, their open-air design offers excellent natural sounding timbre and quite superb resolution which in-turn provides excellently accurate bass resolution. And with very little "fitting seal" required; less so than what is required by an IEM. Often times earbuds may and do trump IEMs in this regards (bass resolution). Case in point... with the bass/timpani drum, double bass, and cello their timbre and detail in the lower frequencies is not always quite right with IEMs although the impact and depth is indeed most definitely there (and wondrously at that!) they are often not accurate (natural sounding) in the bass registers. Even synth bass sounds through certain IEMS can exhibit wonky bass registers (to the point of distortion) and/or muddying timbre (the mixing and complete loss of separation between different bass sounds that are supposed to be distinct and apart). Every transducer type has it's cons but also has it's pros... it just is conveniently and often forgotten when it comes to earbuds.


This paragraph alone is worth putting in a book, and charging for sales.


----------



## Ronion

Well, I was sent the SMABAT ST20 pro by mistake.  It’s an interesting bud to say the least.  It has an above average soundstage, deep and powerful bass and great resolving power, but I have serious fit issues with this bud And have to use shark fins again.  Reminds me of other SMABAT buds to be honest.  The machining is beautiful, but the head is too small for me and the tail too heavy.  Its graphs definitely change based on fit more dramatically than anything else I’ve used.  The orange is when its secure.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Feb 17, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Well, I was sent the SMABAT ST20 pro by mistake.  It’s an interesting bud to say the least.  It has an above average soundstage, deep and powerful bass and great resolving power, but I have serious fit issues with this bud And have to use shark fins again.  Reminds me of other SMABAT buds to be honest.  The machining is beautiful, but the head is too small for me and the tail too heavy.  Its graphs definitely change based on fit more dramatically than anything else I’ve used.  The orange is when its secure.


Thanks for sharing! Yeah, unfortunately there are a number of brilliantly made and splendidly sounding earbuds out there that are using exotic new variant shell type designs that sometimes prove way too difficult for many people to properly & securely fit... more so than other earbuds using traditional MX and PK shell types. To name a few: Rose Technics Maria I & II, Moondrop Chaconne, Pislo PX HIFI/PXVV, Yincrow RW-2000/3000, etc. which all have brought many people to near tears due to poor fit. Some people's ears do not play well with certain shell types, more so with new variant shell types it seems.


----------



## mtl171

Kamen555 said:


> The design seemed familiar.
> You guys remember these? From a few years ago I think... Xperia Ear Duo?


I dont recall seeing these but something about the bent metal loops just screams Sony industrial design in a way I can't resist


----------



## baskingshark

Ronion said:


> Well, I was sent the SMABAT ST20 pro by mistake.  It’s an interesting bud to say the least.  It has an above average soundstage, deep and powerful bass and great resolving power, but I have serious fit issues with this bud And have to use shark fins again.  Reminds me of other SMABAT buds to be honest.  The machining is beautiful, but the head is too small for me and the tail too heavy.  Its graphs definitely change based on fit more dramatically than anything else I’ve used.  The orange is when its secure.



How is the timbre on this set?

Does the added BA make a difference in technical performance?


----------



## captione

Ronion said:


> Well, I was sent the SMABAT ST20 pro by mistake.  It’s an interesting bud to say the least.  It has an above average soundstage, deep and powerful bass and great resolving power, but I have serious fit issues with this bud And have to use shark fins again.  Reminds me of other SMABAT buds to be honest.  The machining is beautiful, but the head is too small for me and the tail too heavy.  Its graphs definitely change based on fit more dramatically than anything else I’ve used.  The orange is when its secure.


That peak... is horrible. There's no way this graph would mistranslate that huge peak 
I'm glad the accessories worked out something for you.


----------



## Ronion

baskingshark said:


> How is the timbre on this set?
> 
> Does the added BA make a difference in technical performance?


I really don’t hear the BA timbre issue on this set.  On a technical level, these are certainly top shelf, but I wouldn’t say better than the best DDs, but every bit as good as. I’ve heard slightly better technical bass on a couple sets, but the bass on this is among the best I’ve heard and reminds me of how the Super One driver sounds in the M2s pro.  It’s a very nice sounding bass that can handle more power than anything I own.  No one’s ears need that type of abuse though, but I haven’t heard these drivers distort on anything.

You are absolutely correct @captione!  Before I put the little rubber earbud cover and shark fin on theses buds, that spike was brutal.  Eardrum spiking pickaxe brutal!  With a good fit, these are among my best buds.  However, even with the fins on, these don’t work well on the go.  The shells are just too heavy outside of the ear and even rotational slipping is an issue with this set.  The sound hole has to be aligned just right to sound its best.  With careful rotation, you can probably get a signature that’s near perfect for you (or anyone) and getting the shark fin to hold it there is not too difficult when stationary, but as soon as you move around and get sweaty, even the shark fins slip.  For me, the whole point in having buds is being able to use them on the go.  Tricky fits and stiff cables are really a fail as far as I can tell.  

@WoodyLuvr: There’s something to be said for the tried and true traditional shapes.  there are certainly reasons for their popularity and longevity.  The PK is still my overall favorite though the Monk/Zen Lite/Qian 39 shape is the most comfortable.  I just haven’t heard a superb bud in that shape.  The Zen Lite is decent with the right foams, but it never does deep bass or airy treble, but it is smooth and warm while retaining a good amount of detail and composure when called upon to do so.  MX500 is where the bang for the buck occurs.  I seem to have trained my ears to readily accept them now, but the PK are barely noticeably and the lites just disappear.  The fact that the PK and Lite shells also graph very consistently tells me a lot about how they fit.  The MX are definitely trickier than them, but still easier than any other shape.  All of my SMABATs graph and sound more consistent with shark fins.  They should come in the box.  The M2s pro and M0 are too fat for the tragus, the ST20 is too thin….  The ST20 is more comfortable with the shark fins because it sits so easily in the tragus.  That’s why it need the shark fins: it slips right out.  The other two need to deform the tragus to get to the ear canal which requires pressure.  It’s less comfortable, but the rotation issue doesn’t exist.  In the future, I’m sticking to traditional shapes until someone improves them.  The Earbuds Anonymous, DP100, and MX760 shapes are also very good and somewhere in between the MX500 and PK for me as far as fit goes.


----------



## jogawag

Ronion said:


> Well, I was sent the SMABAT ST20 pro by mistake.  It’s an interesting bud to say the least.  It has an above average soundstage, deep and powerful bass and great resolving power, but I have serious fit issues with this bud And have to use shark fins again.  Reminds me of other SMABAT buds to be honest.  The machining is beautiful, but the head is too small for me and the tail too heavy.  Its graphs definitely change based on fit more dramatically than anything else I’ve used.  The orange is when its secure.


You can try "NiceHCK Washable Eartips Soft Earbud Silicone Rings".
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002433465841.html


----------



## Sam L (Feb 17, 2022)

I got my sony linkbuds late last night, strange on two accounts: 1) they are 5 days early; 2) came in so late, I didn't notice until early this morning. I can't remember getting Amazon deliveries in my area past 9pm.

I grabbed the box on my way out to the office. I don't have my buds live to compare. The only gear I have with me today is my 120ohm DIY Bery earbud and the moondrop kato.

Some quick impressions based on 10 mins of listening. (not much time on them, I know, but I wanted to get something posted before I get tied up in meetings for the next 6 hours.)

I can see why Linus in his quick impressions reacted with a "woah, these are different." They sound very bud like but also very headphone-ish and iem-ish. They sound great but very weird because of the following reasons:
the mid bass is there and very present in some recordings. It's never mid/upper bass anemic.
the sub bass drops off a cliff, so some recordings sound bizarre. The interesting thing is eq (via sony app) does absolutely nothing for the sub bass, as would be expected with this type of format.
the upper mids carry a good deal of energy, very resolving, yet don't sound as peaky as the graph placed in this thread earlier suggests.
treble has more definition than earbuds, very iem-ish.

Soundstage is really engaging, wider than iems, but not necessarily wider than buds. There's something unique about the soundstage with the linkbuds. I need to listen more to figure out what it is. I've never been one to listen closely to depth or height of soundstage (mostly cause I don't know if I could even pick out the differences) but I feel the linkbuds merit some effort to figure out if the staging is deeper than other earbuds/iems/tws. But staging on the linkbuds is definitely unique.
the ambient passthrough (via the hole) is super effective. nothing can compare to it, even the airpods, or buds live.
the one comparison I can make against the buds live, from memory, is that the buds live has way more bass presence. The buds live adjust to eq quite well compared to the linkbuds. on the Samsung buds live, the dynamic setting changes the sound very noticeably and with that setting sounds distinctly v-shaped. The linkbuds cannot be adjusted to match the bass output of the buds live. The buds live sub bass is also pretty much non-existent but it doesn't just disappear like a black hole (as it does with the linkbuds.)
the linkbuds fit more securely than the buds live (to my ear). Both are equally comfortable. I can wear both all day and not notice.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> the sub bass drops off a cliff


More than usual for a bud?



Sam L said:


> the ambient passthrough (via the hole) is super effective. nothing can compare to it, even the airpods, or buds live.


Less isolation than buds?




Sam L said:


> the linkbuds fit more securely than the buds live (to my ear). Both are equally comfortable. I can wear both all day and not notice.


How big is it?


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> More than usual for a bud?


Stronger drop off than typical buds.



RikudouGoku said:


> Less isolation than buds?


less isolation than buds.



RikudouGoku said:


> How big is it?


Tiny, smaller footprint in ear than buds, thought the bk2 is smaller than the linkbuds


----------



## samandhi

Sam L said:


> I got my sony linkbuds late last night, strange on two accounts: 1) they are 5 days early; 2) came in so late, I didn't notice until early this morning. I can't remember getting Amazon deliveries in my area past 9pm.
> 
> I grabbed the box on my way out to the office. I don't have my buds live to compare. The only gear I have with me today is my 120ohm DIY Bery earbud and the moondrop kato.
> 
> Some quick impressions based on 10 mins of listening. (not much time on them, I know, but I wanted to get something posted before I get tied up in meetings for the next 6 hours.)


Fantastic! Good for you (though I'm jealous, I have to wait till Monday). 

Do you find the sound overall pretty good, considering there is only AAC and SBC onboard? That was the one thing I was worried most about.


----------



## Sam L

samandhi said:


> Fantastic! Good for you (though I'm jealous, I have to wait till Monday).
> 
> Do you find the sound overall pretty good, considering there is only AAC and SBC onboard? That was the one thing I was worried most about.


The sound is excellent in regards to the codec. the aac implementation is good played through my iphone. I haven't check with my lg v60 yet. The linkbuds won't be replacing my earbuds when I'm stationary. but I'll be reaching for the linkbuds over my airpods every time. I think the linkbuds will be a great compliment for the average tws user who values good passthrough audio. They do passthrough better than anything out there and the sound profile is so unique that it's worth keeping around just for that.


----------



## samandhi

Sam L said:


> The sound is excellent in regards to the codec. the aac implementation is good played through my iphone. I haven't check with my lg v60 yet. The linkbuds won't be replacing my earbuds when I'm stationary. but I'll be reaching for the linkbuds over my airpods every time. I think the linkbuds will be a great compliment for the average tws user who values good passthrough audio. They do passthrough better than anything out there and the sound profile is so unique that it's worth keeping around just for that.


Fantastic! Getting excited then. 

Yeah I didn't plan on them replacing my wired buds either, but I can see these as being fantastic for work, when I am not working from home, but in the field. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## guitarizt

Sam L said:


> I got my sony linkbuds late last night, strange on two accounts: 1) they are 5 days early; 2) came in so late, I didn't notice until early this morning. I can't remember getting Amazon deliveries in my area past 9pm.
> 
> I grabbed the box on my way out to the office. I don't have my buds live to compare. The only gear I have with me today is my 120ohm DIY Bery earbud and the moondrop kato.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I loved this review. I love that the sound is diff. It matches the diff look of it. I also super love the ambient via hole. I love ambient sound. I hate anc and sealing off the environment. I need to hear everything around me. Does the sound leak out much? I'd be all over these except for the price. Just too many other iems I'd rather have in this range, and I use some mpow copies for that ambient sound thing when I'm jogging, driving, or out and about and want that ambient feel.


----------



## Kamen555

Earbuds give me great ambient noise access, I just have to lower d volume. 

I get ambient noise access from iems by pulling them out abit from d ear canal, not enough that they fall off, but enough that I can hear my wife tell me to get cereal when we're at d supermarket. 😅


----------



## assassin10000 (Feb 18, 2022)

Sam L said:


> Tiny, smaller footprint in ear than buds, thought the bk2 is smaller than the linkbuds



Do you happen to be able to measure the width of the donut portion?



Also, glad you're still enjoying those 120Ω berylliums. I don't think I had enough power to do those drivers justice.


----------



## Charlyro222 (Feb 18, 2022)

Finally Megatron and Asura 3.0FE arrived.

First impressions are outstanding, organic signature, forwarded mids and airy everywhere.


----------



## calcatreppola

Charlyro222 said:


> Finally Megatron and Asura 3.0FE arrived.
> 
> First impressions are outstanding, organic signature, forwarded mids and airy everywhere.


because of forwarded mids good for classical music, isn't it? 
or can we set it as an allrounder combination?


----------



## Charlyro222

calcatreppola said:


> because of forwarded mids good for classical music, isn't it?
> or can we set it as an allrounder combination?


Male and female vocal jazz is great. 
I think for classical music could be better wider soundstage


----------



## calcatreppola

i was thinking again and again to VE products, I found reviews or notes on most of their products, but nothing about Zen Sun. Can anybody tell me (us) something? In the site it is written that Zen 2.0 is “the finest creation of their main lineup”, but it costs half the Sun... 
thank you


----------



## DBaldock9 (Feb 19, 2022)

I've got some more observations about the ST-20 vs. the ST-10s (Gold/Black, 300-Ω).
First of all - I've never really noticed any sort of timbre issues with the ST-10s  (that could be due to the odd, 300-Ω drivers in mine).
Second - I wear the cables over-the-ears for pretty much all of my earbuds & earphones - except the Etymotic ER2XR.
.
Now that I've swapped the Left & Right earbuds, and installed 2x Hiegi Donut Foams on each one - the ST-20 fit my ears better than they did, but they're still not as secure as the ST-10s.  The Bass impact is more consistent, and I really do like how they sound, overall.  But for my ears, the ST-20 is still going to work best as an earbud for "stationary", rather than "on the go" listening.  The ST-10s may not fit as well as some of the more traditionally shaped earbuds, but due to their smaller shell size, they do "snug down" into my ears fairly securely.


----------



## baskingshark

DBaldock9 said:


> I've got some more observations about the ST-20 vs. the ST-10s (Gold/Black, 300-Ω).
> First of all - I've never really noticed any sort of timbre issues with the ST-10s  (that could be due to the odd, 300-Ω drivers in mine).
> Second - I wear the cables over-the-ears for pretty much all of my earbuds & earphones - except the Etymotic ER2XR.
> .
> Now that I've swapped the Left & Right earbuds, and installed 2x Hiegi Donut Foams on each one - the ST-20 fit my ears better than they did, but they're still not as secure as the ST-10s.  The Bass impact is more consistent, and I really do like how they sound, overall.  But for my ears, the ST-20 is still going to work best as an earbud for "stationary", rather than "on the go" listening.  The ST-10s may not fit as well as some of the more traditionally shaped earbuds, but due to their smaller shell size, they do "snug down" into my ears fairly securely.




Thanks for the impressions. But other than fit, how do these two compare in terms of sound?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Feb 21, 2022)

calcatreppola said:


> i was thinking again and again to VE products, I found reviews or notes on most of their products, but nothing about Zen Sun. Can anybody tell me (us) something? In the site it is written that Zen 2.0 is “the finest creation of their main lineup”, but it costs half the Sun...
> thank you


*Venture Electronics (VE) Sun "Dice Edition"* *(180Ω; $275-300; Aluminum/Steel)* is/was a lower-tiered sibling of the *VE Sun "Copper Edition"* and *VE Zen SU*, sharing a lot of the same R&D, design, and tuning.

Here is a link to a most excellent *review* written by the Earbud Godfather himself *@ClieOS*.

I definitely would agree with *@ClieOS*'s perfect description of the *VE Sun "Dice"* as being a "_grander sounding VE Zen 2.0_". A very accurate description and I too found that they indeed offered a stronger low end and wider/deeper soundstage than the *VE Zen 2.0*.

If I may, I offer you the following sound signature chart plotting for the *Venture Electronics (VE) Sun "Dice Edition"* *(180Ω)* as I had heard it... with that said please listen to* @ClieOS*, more than I, as he has finer more experienced ears than I.




_Primary_ = *Mid-Centric *(Warm Leaning)
_Secondary (Strong)_ = *Dark*
_Secondary (Weak)_ = *Detailed* *&* *Bright *(Airy-like without sibilance)
_Tertiary (Complementing) _= *None*
_Tertiary (Opposing)_ = *None*

The *VE Sun "Dice"* have a *"warm" *leaning* "mid-centric"* *primary sound signature*_ (red dot)_ and exhibit a rather dominating *strong* *secondary sound signature *_(dark blue dashed balloons)_ that is *"dark"* along with two (2) *weaker secondary signatures* _(light blue dashed balloons) _that reach out to *"detailed"* and *"bright"* (*"airy"-like *though not overly bright nor sibilant in any way). For the life of me I really couldn't detect any* complementary *or *opposing tertiary sound characteristics* with these earbuds... they may be there but I just couldn't detect them. Perhaps the *"airy" weaker secondary signature* is in fact a complementing tertiary characteristic but I found it too prominent to consider it as a tertiary. For comparison, the *VE Sun "Dice Edition" *signature easily sits in the same domain as the *VE Zen 2* and *Shozy BK*.

*Please note *that the fit of the *VE Sun "Dice Edition"* may be troublesome for some ear types due to the pseudo bell-horn shape and heavier gauged cabling which may prove to be awkward to some when fitting. I personally really liked the way these earbuds sounded but could not manage a secure fit ever and they slipped/pulled out on me constantly (even worse than the *Moondrop Chaconne*). Even the supplied ear clips (which I detest) failed to correct the issue... I sadly had to trade them away.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Oct 28, 2022)

*WoodyLuvr's Top Ten Flathead Earbuds by Aesthetics Only
*


Spoiler: 2017 - Ksearphone w/ Final Acoustics 海神波塞冬 Poseidon; 215Ω








*


Spoiler: 2018 - Ucotech ES-P1; 160Ω











Spoiler: 2019 - Audio-Technica "Iron Triangle" ATH-CM2000TI; 16Ω








*


Spoiler: 2017 - MoonDrop Liebesleid; 24Ω











Spoiler: 2019 - MoonDrop Chaconne 夏空; 24Ω











Spoiler: 2019 - DQSM Audio Turandot; 16Ω











Spoiler: 2018/2021 - PISLO by ArtVano PX HIFI; 31Ω | PXVV; 32/122Ω






*Left: 2018 - PISLO by ArtVano PX HIFI; 31Ω
Middle & Right: 2021 - PISLO by ArtVano PXVV; 32/122Ω*


*


Spoiler: 2016 - 1More (Xiaomi) E1008; 32Ω











Spoiler: 2017>2021 - Ksearphone Temperament Bell Series






Left: 2018 - Ksearphone Temperament 钛铃 Bell-Ti; 120Ω
Right: 2020 - Ksearphone Temperament 蓝精铃 Bell-Blue; 32/33Ω (aka "Bell Smurf")


*


Spoiler: 2017>2019 - Ourart Series






*Left: 2017 - Ourart Ti7; 32Ω
Middle: 2018 - Ourart ACG; 35Ω
Right: 2019 - Ourart QJ21; 45Ω*


----------



## regancipher

First thought on the LinkBuds:

Sound is really nice, much better than the Buds Live. Far more depth and warmth to the overall sound, and almost like wearing normal TWS on higher volumes.

Calls are not as impressive as I thought they would be. Your voice sounds a little muffled even with no ambient sounds to confuse them. They deal with ambient sounds such as cars and wind pretty well though.

Touch controls on the skin is mad, doesn't work every time but works most of the time.

Comfort - jury is out. When I smile they seem to come a bit loose even with the largest wings. Actually, the largest wings make my ears feel a little sore over time. With smaller wings they feel less stable. The Buds Live are definitely much more comfortable and much less prominent, at least for me.

I'll post full review in due course. I also recently reviewed the Apesonic Mist which try to achieve the same thing. Don't buy them, they're awful!


----------



## waynes world

WoodyLuvr said:


> *My Top Ten Earbuds by Aesthetics Only
> 
> *
> 
> ...



They are all indeed beautiful! And I am woefully aesthetically deprived lol!


----------



## pr0b3r

WoodyLuvr said:


> *My Top Ten Earbuds by Aesthetics Only
> 
> *
> 
> ...



Another great looking buds is the OurArt QJ21, at least for me though. Nice build and finish. Feels good in the hands too. Just quite a hit or miss on fit though.


----------



## DBaldock9

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for the impressions. But other than fit, how do these two compare in terms of sound?



Since both sets have MMCX connectors, I'm able to put one of each type on my cable.  Doing so, and it appears that the ST-20 is more efficient than the ST-10s - or it could be that since the ST-20 has additional Midrange energy, it just seems a bit louder.

With both pairings (ST-20 = Left / ST-10s = Right ; ST-10s = Left / ST-20 = Right), I listened to a 20-Hz - 20-KHz audio sweep video on YouTube, and these are my perceptions:
1.)  Both are audible below 35-Hz, but the ST-20 is louder
2.)  Over most of the range up to ~1.5-KHz, they're fairly similar in level
3.)  Between 1.5-KHz & 4.5-KHz, the ST-20 is louder
4.)  Between 4.5-KHz & 6.5-KHz, the ST-10s is louder
5.)  From 6.5-KHz to where they both roll off at ~10.5-KHz, they're about the same level

I like how both the ST-10s and ST-20 sound.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

waynes world said:


> They are all indeed beautiful! And I am woefully aesthetically deprived lol!


More like we are *depraved* being the earbud fiends that we are!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 19, 2022)

pr0b3r said:


> Another great looking buds is the OurArt QJ21, at least for me though. Nice build and finish. Feels good in the hands too. Just quite a hit or miss on fit though.


Edit: please see  *My Top Twenty Earbuds by Aesthetics Only List*...


----------



## WoodyLuvr

DBaldock9 said:


> Since both sets have MMCX connectors, I'm able to put one of each type on my cable.  Doing so, and it appears that the ST-20 is more efficient than the ST-10s - or it could be that since the ST-20 has additional Midrange energy, it just seems a bit louder.
> 
> With both pairings (ST-20 = Left / ST-10s = Right ; ST-10s = Left / ST-20 = Right), I listened to a 20-Hz - 20-KHz audio sweep video on YouTube, and these are my perceptions:
> 1.)  Both are audible below 35-Hz, but the ST-20 is louder
> ...


How did you account for the volume difference due to their being completely different impedances?


----------



## DBaldock9

WoodyLuvr said:


> How did you account for the volume difference due to their being completely different impedances?



Well, both of their specs say "115dB/mW" (and I'm not sure if that's just an average, or the sensitivity at 1-KHz) - so they happened to be about the same loudness across a pretty wide range of frequencies.


----------



## Ronion

DBaldock9 said:


> Since both sets have MMCX connectors, I'm able to put one of each type on my cable.  Doing so, and it appears that the ST-20 is more efficient than the ST-10s - or it could be that since the ST-20 has additional Midrange energy, it just seems a bit louder.
> 
> With both pairings (ST-20 = Left / ST-10s = Right ; ST-10s = Left / ST-20 = Right), I listened to a 20-Hz - 20-KHz audio sweep video on YouTube, and these are my perceptions:
> 1.)  Both are audible below 35-Hz, but the ST-20 is louder
> ...


If you turn the 20 in your ear, you should be able to change the signature dramatically.


----------



## baskingshark

DBaldock9 said:


> Since both sets have MMCX connectors, I'm able to put one of each type on my cable.  Doing so, and it appears that the ST-20 is more efficient than the ST-10s - or it could be that since the ST-20 has additional Midrange energy, it just seems a bit louder.
> 
> With both pairings (ST-20 = Left / ST-10s = Right ; ST-10s = Left / ST-20 = Right), I listened to a 20-Hz - 20-KHz audio sweep video on YouTube, and these are my perceptions:
> 1.)  Both are audible below 35-Hz, but the ST-20 is louder
> ...



Thanks for the findings!

So the ST20 is kind of more boosted in the upper mids, whereas the ST10S is more boosted in lower treble?


----------



## DBaldock9

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for the findings!
> 
> So the ST20 is kind of more boosted in the upper mids, whereas the ST10S is more boosted in lower treble?



Yes, those loudness differences are readily apparent to me, when the earbuds are swapped either way (so it's not just an imbalance in my hearing).


----------



## Ronion

I decided to take the SMABAT ST20pro and place them in the most stable, repeatable, comfortable position and EQ them to tame/studly bud.  I've only spent about 90 minutes on them, but these awesome when you get things close to right.  It's just such a shame that SMABAT didn't figure out how to tune them better to start with.  In truth, these might be my best headphones period.  I have 8 bands of parametric EQ on them to get there and I will tune further perfect them.  These have the advantages of larger driver and smaller drivers all in one.   The bass is deep and tight, the treble extended, no audible BA timbre issues, a huge soundstage and great separation.  These are madness.  The EQ is mostly just to tame the crazy treble in the most stable spot.  I've got a feeling that the regular ST20 are far closer straight out of the box, but I don't regret these.  Perhaps they can achieve higher heights?

There may be a way to do it with less bands, but I'm just getting it there, then I'll trim the fat.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Feb 20, 2022)

Ronion said:


> I decided to take the SMABAT ST20pro and place them in the most stable, repeatable, comfortable position and EQ them to tame/studly bud.  I've only spent about 90 minutes on them, but these awesome when you get things close to right.  It's just such a shame that SMABAT didn't figure out how to tune them better to start with.  In truth, these might be my best headphones period.  I have 8 bands of parametric EQ on them to get there and I will tune further perfect them.  These have the advantages of larger driver and smaller drivers all in one.   The bass is deep and tight, the treble extended, no audible BA timbre issues, a huge soundstage and great separation.  These are madness.  The EQ is mostly just to tame the crazy treble in the most stable spot.  I've got a feeling that the regular ST20 are far closer straight out of the box, but I don't regret these.  Perhaps they can achieve higher heights?
> 
> There may be a way to do it with less bands, but I'm just getting it there, then I'll trim the fat.


Once dialed in please share your EQ tuning; I am always curious to see what certain earbuds require to tame naughtiness in their signature.


----------



## Ronion

It’s dramatic @WoodyLuvr but it’s worth it.  When I had them sounding their best without EQ, they were too unstable.  Now they’re extremely stable and sound better than ever.  I’ve got to get some more comfortable shark fins though.  I’ll likely order several types and see what works best.


----------



## FranQL (Feb 20, 2022)

I think that this original 16 Ohm Docomo driver that I have been able to test and enjoy thanks to @jogawag (and that he himself
can provide complete data since he is a great expert) there must haber a hole in this thread, I use the docomo shell that he also sent me and that I adjusted to my personal taste.

I was surprised by the good tonality, separation, laterality and depth of the sound. Bass that doesn't feel lacking, with punch and a slight, smooth upper-mid bias, a great SQ for a 2006 driver.

A high value for the lucky ones who can get it (in my case is very difficult), added to the comfort of the PK shell that is already known by all


----------



## syazwaned

Ronion said:


> I decided to take the SMABAT ST20pro and place them in the most stable, repeatable, comfortable position and EQ them to tame/studly bud.  I've only spent about 90 minutes on them, but these awesome when you get things close to right.  It's just such a shame that SMABAT didn't figure out how to tune them better to start with.  In truth, these might be my best headphones period.  I have 8 bands of parametric EQ on them to get there and I will tune further perfect them.  These have the advantages of larger driver and smaller drivers all in one.   The bass is deep and tight, the treble extended, no audible BA timbre issues, a huge soundstage and great separation.  These are madness.  The EQ is mostly just to tame the crazy treble in the most stable spot.  I've got a feeling that the regular ST20 are far closer straight out of the box, but I don't regret these.  Perhaps they can achieve higher heights?
> 
> There may be a way to do it with less bands, but I'm just getting it there, then I'll trim the fat.


Interesting, could you compare them with other earbuds that you have?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Feb 20, 2022)

FranQL said:


> I think that this original 16 Ohm Docomo driver that I have been able to test and enjoy thanks to @jogawag (and that he himself
> can provide complete data since he is a great expert) there must haber a hole in this thread, I use the docomo shell that he also sent me and that I adjusted to my personal taste.
> 
> I was surprised by the good tonality, separation, laterality and depth of the sound. Bass that doesn't feel lacking, with punch and a slight, smooth upper-mid bias, a great SQ for a 2006 driver.
> ...


Enjoy! Indeed a very nice driver OEM'd by Panasonic for NTT (Nippon Telegraph and Telephone Corporation) mobile telephones way back in 2006... known as the "New Variant" it is the same driver used in the beloved *Shozy BK *and *Cygnus*, as well as a number of* Blur Mods*:

*2005 - NTT DoCoMo* (16Ω; "Old Variant" OEMed by Mitsubishi)​*~~~~~*​*2006 - NTT DoCoMo *(16Ω; "New 3.5mm Variant" OEMed by Panasonic)​*2016 - Shozy Cygnus* (16Ω; w/ NTT DoCoMo "New Variant" driver)​*2016 - Shozy 大黑 Big Black (BK) Stardust* (16Ω; w/ NTT DoCoMo "New Variant" driver) --- Reissued and available still!​*2018 - BlurMod Black Panther *(16Ω; modded 2006 NTT DoCoMo)​*2019 - BlurMod Zero DoCoMo Red* (16Ω; modded NTT DoCoMo)​*2019 - BlurMod Zero White DoCoMo* (16Ω; modded NTT DoCoMo)​


----------



## pr0b3r (Feb 20, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Enjoy! Indeed a very nice driver OEM'd by Panasonic for NTT (Nippon Telegraph and Telephone Corporation) mobile telephones way back in 2006... known as the "New Variant" it is the same driver used in the beloved *Shozy BK *and *Cygnus*, as well as a number of* Blur Mods*:
> 
> *2005 - NTT DoCoMo* (16Ω; "Old Variant" OEMed by Mitsubishi)​*~~~~~*​*2006 - NTT DoCoMo *(16Ω; "New 3.5mm Variant" OEMed by Panasonic)​*2016 - Shozy Cygnus* (16Ω; w/ NTT DoCoMo "New Variant" driver)​*2016 - Shozy 大黑 Big Black (BK) Stardust* (16Ω; w/ NTT DoCoMo "New Variant" driver) --- Reissued and available still!​*2018 - BlurMod Black Panther *(16Ω; modded 2006 NTT DoCoMo)​*2019 - BlurMod Zero DoCoMo Red* (16Ω; modded NTT DoCoMo)​*2019 - BlurMod Zero White DoCoMo* (16Ω; modded NTT DoCoMo)​





Been trying to tune mine properly to achieve the stock sound or improve on them a bit. The sound went wrong ever since I opened them for recabling. Didn't know beforehand that the foam dampers inside already turned to powder. They disintegrated as soon as I opened them. Might try some thin or loose foams since putting thick ones muddied the sound further. Foamless (inside), they're bass cannons. Haha!


----------



## jogawag (Feb 20, 2022)

pr0b3r said:


> Been trying to tune mine properly to achieve the stock sound or improve on them a bit. The sound went wrong ever since I opened them for recabling. Didn't know beforehand that the foam dampers inside already turned to powder. They disintegrated as soon as I opened them. Might try some thin or loose foams since putting thick ones muddied the sound further. Foamless (inside), they're bass cannons. Haha!


If rear vents of docomo earbuds are not sealed enough, they are blurry bass cannons as far as I know.


----------



## Ronion

I’ve got a hankering for Docomos….  Thanks @FranQL and @jogawag….


----------



## Ronion

baskingshark said:


> How is the timbre on this set?
> 
> Does the added BA make a difference in technical performance?


At this point I’m am going to say “yes”.  I’ve got a feeling that this is going to be in the very upper echelons of what’s possible in the format.  


syazwaned said:


> Interesting, could you compare them with other earbuds that you have?


Do you have any in mind?  Most of my buds are homemade and probably wouldn’t be of any use to you.  The most popular bud I own is likely the LBBs.  Would that work?  It’s a common reference point for many I suppose.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> At this point I’m am going to say “yes”.  I’ve got a feeling that this is going to be in the very upper echelons of what’s possible in the format.
> 
> Do you have any in mind?  Most of my buds are homemade and probably wouldn’t be of any use to you.  The most popular bud I own is likely the LBBs.  Would that work?  It’s a common reference point for many I suppose.


How about the Smabat M2S Pro (stock and other drivers)?


----------



## MelodyMood (Feb 20, 2022)

Any review or comment on JCALLY EP09? How is the sound quality? Good Clarity but warm sound? Or thin and hollow? I am still not sure about SMABAT M0 due to mix reviews and most of the reviews by the people who got it for free. Also considering below:
Remax RM-560 - *https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003628019901.html* (for my wife's Apple Phone with Lightening connector option). Any one has idea about the sound? or is there any better option for Apple Phone?
OpenHeart - *https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001185272588.html *(How is the sound quality? Did anyone buy that?)

Or any other earbud with really good clarity but also have good bass and pinch of sub-bass too if possible. Good Warm sound and not thin and ear-crashing one. MMCX ones are better as I have cable with Mic or if without MMCX then Mic is must. Thanks in advance.

Edit - I do have RY4S Plus MMCX one and they are good. Now looking for something better than that in terms of Clarity as well as some bass/Sub-bass.


----------



## Ronion

I don’t remember which drivers I have in there at the moment but I believe it’s the LCP variant.  That would have to be what I’d use as I hate switching them out.  Too much switching leads to dead drivers    and I want to use these drivers in MX500 shells as they are easy to tune and have enormous potential.  I’m not sure it’s a good comparison point for very many people.  All the SMABAT drivers I’ve tried have been very competent technically, but suffer the fit issues of SMABAT shells and the overly ambitious pinna gain of SMABAT tunings.


----------



## MelodyMood (Feb 20, 2022)

Ronion said:


> I don’t remember which drivers I have in there at the moment but I believe it’s the LCP variant.  That would have to be what I’d use as I hate switching them out.  Too much switching leads to dead drivers    and I want to use these drivers in MX500 shells as they are easy to tune and have enormous potential.  I’m not sure it’s a good comparison point for very many people.  All the SMABAT drivers I’ve tried have been very competent technically, but suffer the fit issues of SMABAT shells and the overly ambitious pinna gain of SMABAT tunings.


Did you use SMABAT M0 or M2S pro? How are they? Especially M0 with 40 Ohms version? Is that good or better than RY4S Plus MMCX? Good and detailed Clarity and bass?

Also, I found SMABAT M2S Pro unnecessarily costly. They provide free earbuds to many people for writing good-good reviews but keep the price undue high to recover that freebies cost.


----------



## pr0b3r

jogawag said:


> If rear vents of docomo earbuds are not sealed enough, they are blurry bass cannons as far as I know.



That's correct. I tried them on while not having any foams on all vents and the bass just blows into my ears. Haha! Might work on a mod later, thanks to @FranQL's reco.


----------



## assassin10000

Someone should locate the sony link buds drivers. It'd be easy to port a BA through them.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> I don’t remember which drivers I have in there at the moment but I believe it’s the LCP variant.  That would have to be what I’d use as I hate switching them out.  Too much switching leads to dead drivers    and I want to use these drivers in MX500 shells as they are easy to tune and have enormous potential.  I’m not sure it’s a good comparison point for very many people.  All the SMABAT drivers I’ve tried have been very competent technically, but suffer the fit issues of SMABAT shells and the overly ambitious pinna gain of SMABAT tunings.


Since I have the ST10S, I didn't bother with the 105ohm driver for the M2S Pro. Besides, once it is either burned-in, or my brain gets used to it, I find myself reaching for the M2s Pro (stock) more often these days because I am not hearing that boost as much as once I did. 

The RW2000 are noticeably better, but the M2s Pro are overall lighter, thinner cable, and just easier to use while I am working. And they really do sound good IMO!  Most of my other buds (except the Alpha 1) are just not very good for being out and about. The Alpa 1 just have that pina gain boost that doesn't seem to go away, even if listening to them for a long time.


----------



## MelodyMood

samandhi said:


> Since I have the ST10S, I didn't bother with the 105ohm driver for the M2S Pro. Besides, once it is either burned-in, or my brain gets used to it, I find myself reaching for the M2s Pro (stock) more often these days because I am not hearing that boost as much as once I did.
> 
> The RW2000 are noticeably better, but the M2s Pro are overall lighter, thinner cable, and just easier to use while I am working. And they really do sound good IMO!  Most of my other buds (except the Alpha 1) are just not very good for being out and about. The Alpa 1 just have that pina gain boost that doesn't seem to go away, even if listening to them for a long time.



Ok. M2S Pro is very costly. Is that really good for AU $70 price? My budget was AU $30-40 but then I dragged it to $50 but this is very expensive. I don't understand that when they can offer it for free for good reviews, why they cannot keep the price reasonable.


----------



## samandhi

MelodyMood said:


> How is JCALLY EP09 in terms of Sound Signature and overall? Is there any review or comparison with other buds? Can it be considered for nice smooth sound with lots of lots of details and clarity + good Bass and Sub Bass too?





1clearhead said:


> If your intentions are to use them with the sponge covers included in the package, then it will sound nicely balanced with plenty of details. And, while sub-bass/bass is not the deepest, it actually provides a broad, rich and punchy signature. It is tuned very well for those that are willing to use them with the included sponge covers for excellent balance with life-like vocals and hi-end micro details. Now, if you decide to use them without the sponge covers, chances are you might find them on the bright side. There has only been several impressions and talk about them including my own many pages back on this thread. So, you can checkout my impressions on them at the link below...
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16316946
> 
> ...





MelodyMood said:


> Any review or comment on JCALLY EP09? How is the sound quality? Good Clarity but warm sound? Or thin and hollow? I am still not sure about SMABAT M0 due to mix reviews and most of the reviews by the people who got it for free. Also considering below:
> Remax RM-560 - *https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003628019901.html* (for my wife's Apple Phone with Lightening connector option). Any one has idea about the sound? or is there any better option for Apple Phone?
> OpenHeart - *https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001185272588.html *(How is the sound quality? Did anyone buy that?)
> 
> ...



I suspect I must be the only person that hasn't ignored you at this point....


----------



## Ronion

MelodyMood said:


> Did you use SMABAT M0 or M2S pro? How are they? Especially M0 with 40 Ohms version? Is that good or better than RY4S Plus MMCX? Good and detailed Clarity and bass?
> 
> Also, I found SMABAT M2S Pro unnecessarily costly. They provide free earbuds to many people for writing good-good reviews but keep the price undue high to recover that freebies cost.


I prefer the sound from the M2s pro.  It has more bass and a slightly wider soundstage.  The fit is worse, but neither of them are a great fit and all the traditional bud shapes are better.  I haven’t heard the RY4S plus, but it has a good reputation.  My bet would be that it has a better frequency response, better fit, but worse technicalities.  I have built several buds with the RY4S 300 ohm driver and it’s a very good driver with above average technicalities.  Several high end buds use that driver.  It generally doesn’t have an extended bass or treble but the quality of everything in between is easily worth the price of admission.  I’m not sure what that particular tuning is like, but I’m sure that driver is a great one.


----------



## MelodyMood

Ronion said:


> I prefer the sound from the M2s pro.  It has more bass and a slightly wider soundstage.  The fit is worse, but neither of them are a great fit and all the traditional bud shapes are better.  I haven’t heard the RY4S plus, but it has a good reputation.  My bet would be that it has a better frequency response, better fit, but worse technicalities.  I have built several buds with the RY4S 300 ohm driver and it’s a very good driver with above average technicalities.  Several high end buds use that driver.  It generally doesn’t have an extended bass or treble but the quality of everything in between is easily worth the price of admission.  I’m not sure what that particular tuning is like, but I’m sure that driver is a great one.


So RY4S 300 Ohms is good? I have 32 Ohms Plus version but as you did not use that, you may not be able to tell how good it is compared to 300 Ohms version. If 300 Ohms is good and at par with M2S Pro, I can consider that as it is only $18-19. Also, M0 with 40 Ohms driver is good? I guess M0 and M2S Pro shell are different so there may be some difference in fit. But not too sure abt the Sound quality. If M0 40 Ohms sound is not thin and good sound then I can consider. But from reviews it seems that M0 or even M2S pro is thin sounding and does not have bass at all. is that so?


----------



## samandhi

My point (and then I'm done):


MelodyMood said:


> I am going to order SMABAT M0 Driver Modules (+ Shell) with 40 Ohms version. There are few reviews on Head-Fi and other places also and each of them mentioned that it is very thin sounding and lacks bass and no sub-bass. Is that so? Only that these all reviews are for 20 Ohms version and not 40 Ohms so I am not sire if that will make big difference.
> 
> If we compare to Monk Plus, how good they are? Considering I am going to spend 3-4 times more price for these (after discount around 28 AUD for Driver + Shell and 15 AUD for Cable which is still on the way).
> 
> ...


Aug of last year!


MelodyMood said:


> So RY4S 300 Ohms is good? I have 32 Ohms Plus version but as you did not use that, you may not be able to tell how good it is compared to 300 Ohms version. If 300 Ohms is good and at par with M2S Pro, I can consider that as it is only $18-19. Also, M0 with 40 Ohms driver is good? I guess M0 and M2S Pro shell are different so there may be some difference in fit. But not too sure abt the Sound quality. If M0 40 Ohms sound is not thin and good sound then I can consider. But from reviews it seems that M0 or even M2S pro is thin sounding and does not have bass at all. is that so?


Tonight!


----------



## MelodyMood

samandhi said:


> My point (and then I'm done):
> 
> Aug of last year!
> 
> Tonight!


That AU $28 is now AU $70 as per Smabat store guy. He does not have 40 Ohms Titanium Driver and suggesting LCP one which is $35 against $10-11 of Titanium one. That's why I asked the question again. but not expecting racist people to reply anyway.


----------



## jeejack

MelodyMood said:


> So RY4S 300 Ohms is good? I have 32 Ohms Plus version but as you did not use that, you may not be able to tell how good it is compared to 300 Ohms version. If 300 Ohms is good and at par with M2S Pro, I can consider that as it is only $18-19. Also, M0 with 40 Ohms driver is good? I guess M0 and M2S Pro shell are different so there may be some difference in fit. But not too sure abt the Sound quality. If M0 40 Ohms sound is not thin and good sound then I can consider. But from reviews it seems that M0 or even M2S pro is thin sounding and does not have bass at all. is that so?


300 ohm version is better only if you open them and change the tuning


----------



## FranQL

MelodyMood said:


> That AU $28 is now AU $70 as per Smabat store guy. He does not have 40 Ohms Titanium Driver and suggesting LCP one which is $35 against $10-11 of Titanium one. That's why I asked the question again. but not expecting racist people to reply anyway.



LCP 40 Ohm Smabat, worth up to infinite levels only if you open them up and change the tuning


----------



## Ronion (Feb 21, 2022)

This is very near completion of the SMABAT ST20 pro EQ: See next post.


----------



## Ronion

Actually, this is safer on a wider range of recordings:


----------



## syazwaned

Ronion said:


> At this point I’m am going to say “yes”.  I’ve got a feeling that this is going to be in the very upper echelons of what’s possible in the format.
> 
> Do you have any in mind?  Most of my buds are homemade and probably wouldn’t be of any use to you.  The most popular bud I own is likely the LBBs.  Would that work?  It’s a common reference point for many I suppose.


Yes I also have LBBs, wonder whether St20 pro would be a good side grade


----------



## Ronion (Feb 21, 2022)

My bet is that it would be a significant upgrade but it requires EQ and will likely require some sort of device to stabilize them in your ears.  I’ve got a bud with a high end driver (better than the one in the LBBs) that has a  frequency response nearly identical to the EQed ST20 pro, and the ST20 pro is in a different class.  Huge sound stage, lots of detail and separation, and handles busy tracks with ease.  It sounds like a set of high end cans, but in a more compact package.  I’ll compare them in a little bit.  I’d be surprised if my side by side turns out any different, but you never know until you try.  I don’t think I own anything that can really compete with these however barr a couple buds in particular categories, but overall my impression is that these can do it all.


----------



## FranQL (Feb 21, 2022)

Ronion said:


> My bet is that it would be a significant upgrade but it requires EQ and will likely require some sort of device to stabilize them in your ears.  I’ve got a bud with a high end driver (better than the one in the LBBs) that has a  frequency response nearly identical to the EQed ST20 pro, and the ST20 pro is in a different class.  Huge sound stage, lots of detail and separation, and handles busy tracks with ease.  It sounds like a set of high end cans, but in a more compact package.  I’ll compare them in a little bit.  I’d be surprised if my side by side turns out any different, but you never know until you try.  I don’t think I own anything that can really compete with these however barr a couple buds in particular categories, but overall my impression is that these can do it all.



The real problem here is that at the selling price... ST20pro has this huge and intolerable (and painful) mountain that you see so clearly on the charts, I just don't quite know what they were thinking.... I'm clear that that BA placed forward next to the faceplate is to blame, but... it is something already well known.

I think of other buds that @WoodyLuvr defines "of a single trick", what advantage do excellent technicalities have if you can't listen to music with them without being exposed to your ears bleeding? either that or EQ


----------



## Ronion (Feb 21, 2022)

I can’t understand what they were thinking….  Perhaps they were thinking that some poor sap may get a set by accident and hate them.  MAYBE he’s a spy who possesses secrets only NASA knows… That poor sap will then take the time to measure them in every configurable manner to find a position that doesn’t sound brutal, decide that it’s not stable enough in that position, then go through and devise a 10 band parametric EQ to fix the problem in the most stable position (and the position it’s designed to be in) in the ear using a calibrated room response from mics in his own ears as a reference and a mould made from his own ear as a measurement reference, spend 6 hours getting the EQ just right using both objective measurements and subjective evaluation with every style of music he knows of just to correct the problems that should have never existed in the first place.  That’s probably what they were counting on LOL.

In a way, they make me angry, and yet now I can’t help but think I’m very lucky to have them.  They are a great idea, just not refined at all.  The end user must refine them.  That said, this EQ should work well for the vast majority of people now that I think about it.  If a different set of ears was used for both calibration curve and measurements, a similar EQ should be derived.  These buds led me to a new understanding through their lack of refinement.


----------



## pr0b3r (Feb 21, 2022)

Finally got my desired tuning on these (NTT Docomo PK). Faster and better overall quality on bass. Perfect for tracks with lots of strings and percussions. Even faint hits and tiny nuances became so audible. Also got vocal thickness and note weight to my preference. A bit midcentric that is. Highs are surprisingly detailed as well, so airy. Overall resulted in kind of a W-shaped sig which is what I was aiming for. Imaging is undeniably one of the best strengths of these drivers. Such good potential for further tuning.

Thanks to my fellow local DIYers for modding tips. Also gotta give thanks to @FranQL as well. I might not have started fixing these if not for his encouragement. Thanks for your recommendations on the mod!


----------



## rprodrigues

@pr0b3r 
​Are those DoCoMo drivers? If so, where did you get them?


----------



## RikudouGoku

If only Smabat dampened that BA...like with knowles dampers...

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10000243519518.html
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aud...pressions-thread.909718/page-42#post-15072155


----------



## pr0b3r

rprodrigues said:


> @pr0b3r
> ​Are those DoCoMo drivers? If so, where did you get them?



Yes, NTT Docomo PK. Snagged one from a local group buy. I believe they came from a certain Michelle Ong from Malaysia.


----------



## MelodyMood

jeejack said:


> 300 ohm version is better only if you open them and change the tuning





FranQL said:


> LCP 40 Ohm Smabat, worth up to infinite levels only if you open them up and change the tuning


What do you mean by Open up and change the tuning? You mean Physically Open and do something? I don't think I have tools and skills to take that risk. Few of my earphones need plug or cable change but I don't have time to learn and perform that. Not that I cannot do that but need to buy the tool set for that and experiment.


----------



## baskingshark

Ronion said:


> I can’t understand what they were thinking….  Perhaps they were thinking that some poor sap may get a set by accident and hate them.  MAYBE he’s a spy who possesses secrets only NASA knows… That poor sap will then take the time to measure them in every configurable manner to find a position that doesn’t sound brutal, decide that it’s not stable enough in that position, then go through and devise a 10 band parametric EQ to fix the problem in the most stable position (and the position it’s designed to be in) in the ear using a calibrated room response from mics in his own ears as a reference and a mould made from his own ear as a measurement reference, spend 6 hours getting the EQ just right using both objective measurements and subjective evaluation with every style of music he knows of just to correct the problems that should have never existed in the first place.  That’s probably what they were counting on LOL.
> 
> In a way, they make me angry, and yet now I can’t help but think I’m very lucky to have them.  They are a great idea, just not refined at all.  The end user must refine them.  That said, this EQ should work well for the vast majority of people now that I think about it.  If a different set of ears was used for both calibration curve and measurements, a similar EQ should be derived.  These buds led me to a new understanding through their lack of refinement.



Thanks for your impressions on the ST20 Pro, probably it is the first impressions/review I've seen so far on audio forums.

So looks like adding a BA to earbuds is still a pipedream of sorts, or at least a failed proof of concept. It is a good idea in theory, BAs do bring advantages to the table, such as better technicalities than a single DD (in general). But in a earbud shell, where different folks have different fits (due to ear anatomy), I think it would be very difficult to get the ideal fit so that the BAs don't sound piercing, there's so much variation in fit compared to an IEM. Not to mention hybrid type IEMs/earbuds, may have coherency/crossover issues if not implemented well, and BAs may add an artificial sheen to timbral accuracy sometimes.

I applaud Smabat for trying to innovate with the addition of a BA, but there's a big reason why the vast majority of earbuds are still single DD, not only cause of pricing but implementing BAs inside a earbud shell is a supremely difficult task. Looks like it's back to the drawing board.


----------



## Ronion

syazwaned said:


> Yes I also have LBBs, wonder whether St20 pro would be a good side grade


So I compared them for about an hour, but in truth I am probably too tired to make a comparison.  Neither of them had any soundstage and the both sounded muddy lol.  Not a description I would normally use for either of these buds.  This is what kills me about this hobby: your physical state of being has a lot to do with what you hear.  Measurements are more consistent and even they vary lol.   I have just worked 7 days in a row and took a huge hike to decompress before doing to comparison.  The things I could definitely hear as far as differences go is that the SMABAT has deeper bass while the LBBs has more treble that still seems fairly smooth though plasticky in comparison.  I’ve never thought of its treble as plasticky before.  Keep in mind that the LBBs wasn’t EQed at all and is also too small to get a stable fit in my ears and it didn’t have helper shark fins attached to make it more stable and repeatable.  The LBBs also takes bass boosting EQ well according to reports.  I haven’t had such luck with it however and that may be a fit problem.  Nonetheless, if I was going to spend my money on an LBBs upgrade, I wouldn’t look at this SMABAT.  It’s just too much hassle.  I’d look for a traditional shape: Lite, PK, DP, MX, Docomo, or some hybrid variant in plastic.  There are several that are not too expensive: HE150, TG38s, White Lotus, and several others I’m sure.   None of these may be absolutely a total win for what you want (or they may be), but they are at least another side grade that’s worth the price of admission and will likely have something that you’ll appreciate for many years to come and you could get all three several times for the price of the SMABAT.

I actually think my ears are tired from all the ear squinting they did last night to make the EQ because last night was after the end of a 7 day work stretch and I could hear like a bat.


----------



## regancipher

My review of the Linkbuds here, would love to hear the thoughts of other headfiers


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Feb 22, 2022)

Ronion said:


> ...while the LBBs has more treble that still seems fairly smooth though plasticky in comparison.  I’ve never thought of its treble as plasticky before... ...LBBs also takes bass boosting EQ well according to reports...


Indeed the* Ks Bell-LBBs* do respond (play) very well with DSPs and EQ... especially in the lower-half frequencies. The *Ks Bell-LBBs* is a super neutral, mid-centric sounding earbud which some find to be slightly warm-leaning but I think that is simply due to it's rather prominent warm sounding secondary sound characteristic. The *Ks Bell-LBBs* do present a lot of energy in the upper midrange to very lower treble. Combine this with mildly recessed, aggressive upper highs and the result can be that "_plasticky_" sound you are hearing. Though this usually can be corrected with careful EQ'ing it is certainly something of a bane for a lot of plastic shelled earphones out there.

*Ks Bell-LBBs Sound Signature Chart*



It is crucial that you do not interpret this chart two-dimensionally but rather three-dimensionally using all axes offered. Optimally, this would be best presented as a sphere but in turn that would make it difficult to clearly see and read all the labels and sections. Thus, we are limited to two-dimensions for the sake of presentation and clarity. Please note that I tried my best to stick to the "classic" (more basic) sound signature & tuning characteristic definitions as used by recording professionals & audio engineers.

*Ks Bell-LBBs*
_Primary_ = *Mid-Centric - Neutral*
_Secondary (Strong)_ = *Warm *(not muddy, nor muffled)
_Secondary (Weak)_ = *Sharp & Detailed*
_Tertiary (Complementing) _= *Hard-Harsh *(enhanced female vocals; sometimes aggressive though)
_Tertiary (Opposing)_ = *Hard-Harsh *(not overly bright, nor sibilant though); *Thin & Tinny *(aggressive)

The *primary sound signature* _(red dot and red-shaded oval)_ of the* Ks Bell-LBBs* is "*mid-centric - neutral*" with a very *strong secondary sound signature*_ (dark-blue shaded balloon) _that reaches out to "*warm*" but is far from being muddy, smeared, or muffled. A non-overpowering *weak secondary sound signature*_ (light-blue shaded balloon) _reaches out to "*detailed*" for greater resolution and more realistic, natural-sounding timbre. Prominent *complementing tertiary sound characteristics *_(green shaded arrows)_ are exhibited in the upper mids and very lower treble that may/can come across as being rather "_*hard-harsh*_" but in-turn also provides enhanced female vocals and reproduction of bright-leaning instruments. Due to mildly recessed mid and upper highs a sneaky and quite "*aggressive*" ("*thin & tinny*") *opposing tertiary sound characteristic *_(green shaded arrow)_ may rear it's ugly head occasionally with certain recordings and music genres.


*Please Note* - The other shown earphone plots (gray dots) are only indicating the *primary (strongest sounding) signature* and does not take into account other possible *strong/weak secondary sound signatures* and/or *opposing/complementing tertiary sound characteristics*. Some transducers may exhibit multiple and opposing tonal attributes all at the same time. I tend to plot earphones by their strongest attribute(s) first and then do my best to fine tune their position based on their other (minor) attributes.


----------



## syazwaned

Ronion said:


> So I compared them for about an hour, but in truth I am probably too tired to make a comparison.  Neither of them had any soundstage and the both sounded muddy lol.  Not a description I would normally use for either of these buds.  This is what kills me about this hobby: your physical state of being has a lot to do with what you hear.  Measurements are more consistent and even they vary lol.   I have just worked 7 days in a row and took a huge hike to decompress before doing to comparison.  The things I could definitely hear as far as differences go is that the SMABAT has deeper bass while the LBBs has more treble that still seems fairly smooth though plasticky in comparison.  I’ve never thought of its treble as plasticky before.  Keep in mind that the LBBs wasn’t EQed at all and is also too small to get a stable fit in my ears and it didn’t have helper shark fins attached to make it more stable and repeatable.  The LBBs also takes bass boosting EQ well according to reports.  I haven’t had such luck with it however and that may be a fit problem.  Nonetheless, if I was going to spend my money on an LBBs upgrade, I wouldn’t look at this SMABAT.  It’s just too much hassle.  I’d look for a traditional shape: Lite, PK, DP, MX, Docomo, or some hybrid variant in plastic.  There are several that are not too expensive: HE150, TG38s, White Lotus, and several others I’m sure.   None of these may be absolutely a total win for what you want (or they may be), but they are at least another side grade that’s worth the price of admission and will likely have something that you’ll appreciate for many years to come and you could get all three several times for the price of the SMABAT.
> 
> I actually think my ears are tired from all the ear squinting they did last night to make the EQ because last night was after the end of a 7 day work stretch and I could hear like a bat.


Thank you friend. Really appreciate your thought and your valuable time in doing this. Smabat st20 pro Bass does interest my a lot, I have the m2s pro, love the bass although it is too big for my ears.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 1, 2022)

*'THE CHECKLIST' FOR FLATHEAD EARBUD RECOMMENDATION REQUESTS*
For those looking for a flathead-earbud recommendation from the *Earbuds Round-Up* thread gang, the following data is extremely helpful:

*budget* _(what are you willing/looking to spend? e.g. price range)_
*source* _(e.g. Smartphone, DAP, AMP/DAC, PC, Streamer)_
*preferred connection* _(termination type, single-ended or balanced e.g. 3.5TRS, 4.4TRRS, 2.5TRRS)_
*listening level & session length* _(volume level and for how long?)_
*listening environment* _(e.g. mobile, office, home desktop, home listening room)_
*preferred music genre *_(to include podcasts and audiobooks)_
*preferred shell and foam-cushion type* _(e.g. please see *here* and __*here*__)_
*preferred sound signature i* _(e.g. bright, dark, warm, aggressive, bassy, neutral, L/U/V/W-shaped)_
*preferred sound signature ii* _(optional; offer a comparative non-earbud transducer model)_
_*preferred brand*_ _(optional; only applicable for a model recommendation within a single brand)_
*any special need and/or consideration* _(e.g. mic/no mic?; fixed cable vs. mmcx?)_

My defunct (no-longer updated/supported) *Earbud God-Tier List* can be found *here*.


----------



## baskingshark (Feb 22, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for your impressions on the ST20 Pro, probably it is the first impressions/review I've seen so far on audio forums.
> 
> So looks like adding a BA to earbuds is still a pipedream of sorts, or at least a failed proof of concept. It is a good idea in theory, BAs do bring advantages to the table, such as better technicalities than a single DD (in general). But in a earbud shell, where different folks have different fits (due to ear anatomy), I think it would be very difficult to get the ideal fit so that the BAs don't sound piercing, there's so much variation in fit compared to an IEM. Not to mention hybrid type IEMs/earbuds, may have coherency/crossover issues if not implemented well, and BAs may add an artificial sheen to timbral accuracy sometimes.
> 
> I applaud Smabat for trying to innovate with the addition of a BA, but there's a big reason why the vast majority of earbuds are still single DD, not only cause of pricing but implementing BAs inside a earbud shell is a supremely difficult task. Looks like it's back to the drawing board.



Speak about the devil! I bought an ST20 (non pro) at the crowdfunding, but was very surprised when an ST20 Pro was delivered in the mail this afternoon instead. Hmm, will check with Smabat about this.



Anyways, the ST20 Pro is huge for a earbud. I daresay the hugest earbud I've tried so far in my earbud journey. Build is good, comes with MMCX connectors as per most SMABAT earbuds. The shell is on the heavier side but I didn't get any weight-fatigue while using them.

Accessories are quite premium, other than the earbuds themselves, these are included:
- Leatherette carrying pouch
- Full foams, donut foams, silicone covers
- 2 cables - 1x 3.5 mm and 1x 4.4 mm termination cable
- 1/4 inch jack



The ST20 pro can be worn cable down or over ears. This in theory gives more fitting permutations. However, this earbud is legit one of the hardest to fit earbuds ever. Not only are the shells huge, the preformed hooks on the 3.5 mm cable are quite stiff and they tend to yank the earbud out of the ear. In fact, with a suboptimal fit, there is no bass heard and the upper mids/treble handled by the BA will just overwhelm the sonic scene and make this an overly bright shouty and fatiguing earbud. I now know what @Ronion was referring to when he said the finicky fit on this set affects the sound tremendously, that is no exaggeration. Even small adjustments in the fit will skew the sound signature a lot.

So I foresee lots of differing sound impressions on the ST20 Pro, by virtue of all of us having different fit/ear anatomies. Small variances in the fit will push the BA into different positions and affect shoutiness and resonances.




So after fiddling with various permutations, I managed to finally get the bass frequencies to come out to play, and even out the BA higher frequencies (the ears take the FR as a whole). My most optimal fitting was via cable down with silicone covers inside, and putting a full foam over them. Of course YMMV, but see what works for you in terms of fit. I definitely foresee quite a few folks having fitting issues with this set, which will surely skew the sound. I would think most of us in this thread know about rolling foam covers and optimizing fit, but those new to this rabbit hole might very well give up on fitting them, or even worse, using them in a suboptimal fit which makes them sound like shrieking banshees. So my advise is, don't give up on them OOTB!

So as per the 120 ohm impedance, the ST20 Pro is difficult to drive. Amping is mandatory, do not try this set with a weak source. Tests below done on a Khadas Tone Board -> Schiit Asgard 3 and E1DA dongle.

So on to sound, with an optimal fit, and with adequate juice, I would describe the ST20 Pro as being a neutral bright set.

Bass is just a tinge north of neutral, definitely not at basshead levels. Subbass extends very well for a earbud, as per the SMABAT labryinthine designs, with good rumble. The SMABAT earbuds beat most other run-of-the-mill earbuds in subbass extension, and the ST20 Pro is no different in this regard. In terms of bass quality, bass speed is moderate, texturing is above average, with minimal midbass bleed.

Lower mids are a tinge depressed, with upper mids boosted around the 2 - 3 kHz regions, which is sort of the house sound of SMABAT tuning. Due to the Fletcher Munson curve, volume-played-at affects the ST20 Pro a lot. Boosting the volume to high levels will make this 3 kHz region piercing, but at moderate to low levels, this region is right at the borderline of being forward versus shoutiness. This region also probably depends on hearing health, and the aforementioned fitting issues, as a good fit will get the bass out, which evens out this region.

Lower treble is boosted, but there is a higher treble roll off, and the ST20 Pro is not an airy or sparkly set. Sibilance is mild.

Timbre-wise, there is a slight BA flavour for acoustic instruments, but not the worst I've heard in a BA containing set, still acceptable for me (I'm a timbre freak).

Technicalities-wise, the added BA does bring benefits to the table. Imaging, instrument separation and clarity are top notch for a earbud and up there with TOTL buds. Soundstage is quite spacious in height, depth and width. Layering is good and almost close to some midFI IEMs in this department.



So in a nutshell, the ST20 Pro is a proof-of-concept of what an added BA can bring to the earbud buffet table. My main beef with the ST20 Pro is that the various fitting angles will all give a different sound signature, due to the BA being positioned differently. This will give differing opinions among different users on the sound, but I would advise consumers to not give up, try double foaming, silicone covers, earhooks, whatever you can to get an optimal fit. Once the fit is secured, this set is very good in technical performance, while keeping the deep subbass we find in SMABAT series earbuds. Accessories are great, build is solid and the layering, soundstage and imaging are really very strong for a earbud. Those sensitive to the upper mids 3 kHz regions or those that do not have an amp on hand might also want to look elsewhere, but I foresee "fitting" to be the achilles' heel of this earbud. Fit can literally make or break a earbud/IEM -> case in point BLON BL-03.


----------



## Vannak

baskingshark said:


> Speak about the devil! I bought an ST20 (non pro) at the crowdfunding, but was very surprised when an ST20 Pro was delivered in the mail this afternoon instead. Hmm, will check with Smabat about this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing 🙏


----------



## Xinlisupreme

My ST20 tracking doesn't work, looks like it's still in China since 26th Jan


----------



## jogawag (Feb 22, 2022)

Xinlisupreme said:


> My ST20 tracking doesn't work, looks like it's still in China since 26th Jan


If the parcel goes missing, you may be happy to get a refund.


----------



## FranQL

graphic: @Ronion  ST20 pro stock


----------



## Ronion

baskingshark said:


> Speak about the devil! I bought an ST20 (non pro) at the crowdfunding, but was very surprised when an ST20 Pro was delivered in the mail this afternoon instead. Hmm, will check with Smabat about this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your impression closely mirrors mine but more eloquently spoken.  The cable down is where they sounded and measured best, but I could not get them to stay in very long.  Wrapping the cable over the ears did not work at all for me at first, but oddly now it does.  Unfortunately the sound there is crazy bright.  So the EQ was devised.  It‘s still not perfect, but my ears seem to be suffering exhaustion from the effort.  Recording engineers suffer from this as well.  My theory now is that it’s better to work fast and then review your changes again a few days later.  In any case, it’s good to know that I’m not alone in my type of crazy 😜


----------



## Ronion

FranQL said:


> graphic: @Ronion  ST20 pro stock


Love it!  That should come in the package 📦


----------



## Ronion

syazwaned said:


> Thank you friend. Really appreciate your thought and your valuable time in doing this. Smabat st20 pro Bass does interest my a lot, I have the m2s pro, love the bass although it is too big for my ears.


The HE150 graphs similar to the ST20 in its best position except it has more bass that is still detailed and the overall response is smoother.  It’s fit is standard MX500.


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> Anyways, the ST20 Pro is huge for a earbud. I daresay the hugest earbud I've tried so far in my earbud journey.


Then you should check out the Maria II...  It is like having a wagon wheel on the side of your head. 

Thanks for the very nice thoughts on these (also to @Ronion for yours as well)!


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Then you should check out the Maria II...  It is like having a wagon wheel on the side of your head.
> 
> Thanks for the very nice thoughts on these (also to @Ronion for yours as well)!


This was had me laughing.  Thank you for that!


----------



## samandhi

So, I got my Linkbuds yesterday, and listened to them till the battery died last evening, then used them for 8 1/2 hours at work today (other than the 30 minutes it took to recharge them to 100%... Just wow!). I won't go into my first impressions of the features and all the TWS goodness. If interested, you can read that part here. 

But, for earbuds, my first impressions are: they are excellent! I was highly surprised that they were able to implement AAC and SBC to sound so good. I was half in regret after ordering them but before getting them because of this reason. Worries alleviated! 

These actually sound more akin to IEMs with the soundstage of a bud. The bass quantity is more than any earbud I have heard to date, but sub-bass is severely lacking. In that regard it is tuned much like some of Hifiman's lower end planars (having more mid-bass to handle basically all the lower end duties). It is not super textured, as one might expect from a lower end BT codec, but I don't think it is the driver's fault. In fact, I believe the driver inside is of really good quality, limited by the lowered bitrates it is able to receive.

Mids are clear and present (though not at the forefront) and warm sounding. I find no issue with them in this regard at all. I don't find the pina gain boosted at all, so there is no shrill(ness) at any volume, that I can hear.

Treble is pretty warm, and I had to use the in-app EQ to boost it to my liking. But after this, I find them to be clear and with SOME sparkle, though not a ton. Just enough to convey the music with decent tonal accuracy. There is some congestion issues with complex tracks, but again I suspect it is the lower bitrate causing this. This is where having AAC and SBC as the only choices surprised me. Where you can hear grainy(ness), or simply tizzy cymbol sounds (for instance) in the treble when using lower-end codecs, Sony has done a nice job in the DAC/amp in these buds to compensate for that, and they are at least clear. Even after boosting the treble, it didn't really reveal any issues with the treble. 

Does this mean they sound perfect? No, but for how tiny they are, and being BT, I would put them up against some really good buds, and also some good IEMs too. These won't be great for critical listening though, because if you listen VERY carefully you can hear the difference in wired vs. wireless (goes without saying really), but if you are using them out and about, they will fit the bill nicely.


----------



## samandhi

My temporary solution:


----------



## DBaldock9

I'm exceedingly glad that I received the ST-20 that I ordered, rather than the ST-20 Pro.


----------



## Ronion (Feb 23, 2022)

syazwaned said:


> Interesting, could you compare them with other earbuds that you have?


Okay, my ears have cleared a bit or recharged or whatever and I took some time to compare these buds again.  The LBBs are definitely a substantial notch below the SMABAT ST20pro.  Strangely I was able to get both of these buds to fit well today easily.  Maybe I was sweaty/greasy yesterday?  Anyway, I listened to one piece/song of solo piano, Van Halen, and 50 Cent in an effort to keep it brief.  In every genre, the ST20 has deeper, more textured bass with with better timbre and dynamics.  The soundstage is significantly larger and instrument timbre and separation is definitely superior.  The realism of the piano was actually the most striking and the Van Halen was the least differentiating (not to say that the differences weren’t obvious).  The LBBs sounded like I had cups over my ears in comparison.  The dynamics just weren’t there and the LBBs just didn’t sound full and natural.  The price difference is more substantial than the sonic differences however.  With that said, for the $60 I paid, these ST20 pro are a steal.  I just wish SMABAT had tuned them better.  Maybe I need to give “cable down” another chance.  They were definitely within an acceptable tonal range that way but they did lack treble air.  “Cable up” the air returns but a radical EQ is necessary.  In truth, a 2 volt output is also necessary and 4 wouldn’t hurt with the EQ.  The LBBs shines on just 1v and offers perfect comfort if not an absolutely perfect fit for me.  So far I have to say that the SMABAT are the best buds I’ve heard technically but take a significant amount of manipulation to perform their best and they’re not the most comfortable with the shark fins for stabilization.  Another method may prove beneficial.


----------



## Ronion

DBaldock9 said:


> I'm exceedingly glad that I received the ST-20 that I ordered, rather than the ST-20 Pro.


I’ve got a feeling those will be close to ideal sonically.  Particularly with that driver!  how’s the fit working for you now?


----------



## baskingshark (Feb 23, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Okay, my ears have cleared a bit or recharged or whatever and I took some time to compare these buds again.  The LBBs are definitely a substantial notch below the SMABAT ST20pro.  Strangely I was able to get both of these buds to fit well today easily.  Maybe I was sweaty/greasy yesterday?  Anyway, I listened to one piece/song of solo piano, Van Halen, and 50 Cent in an effort to keep it brief.  In every genre, the ST20 has deeper, more textured bass with with better timbre and dynamics.  The soundstage is significantly larger and instrument timbre and separation is definitely superior.  The realism of the piano was actually the most striking and the Van Halen was the least differentiating (not to say that the differences weren’t obvious).  The LBBs sounded like I had cups over my ears in comparison.  The dynamics just weren’t there and the LBBs just didn’t sound full and natural.  The price difference is more substantial than the sonic differences however.  With that said, for the $60 I paid, these ST20 pro are a steal.  I just wish SMABAT had tuned them better.  Maybe I need to give “cable down” another chance.  They were definitely within an acceptable tonal range that way but they did lack treble air.  “Cable up” the air returns but a radical EQ is necessary.  In truth, a 2 volt output is also necessary and 4 wouldn’t hurt with the EQ.  The LBBs shines on just 1v and offers perfect comfort if not an absolutely perfect fit for me.  So far I have to say that the SMABAT are the best buds I’ve heard technically but take a significant amount of manipulation to perform their best and their not the most comfortable with the shark fins for stabilization.  Another method may prove beneficial.



Gotta agree with this. ST20 Pro's technicalities are top notch. But the big caveat is: only if the fit is right.

I'm gonna do some A/B testing with the NiceHCK EBX21 and Yincrow RW2000 soon to see which is the winner in technicalities, but fit is gonna make or break an IEM/earbud. No point having the most heavenly sound, but the fit sucks, and people can't use the bud for more than a few minutes, either cause the bud drops out, is too uncomfortable, or a suboptimal fitting skews the sound (in the case of the ST20 Pro).

Thus far I am managing to secure a good fit with silicone rings inside, and full foams outside, cable down. Seems to stabilize the earbud well enough so as not to move around. Maybe they should have included shark fin hooks inside the packaging.




EDIT: oh ya i emailed Smabat about the ST20 Pro arriving instead of the ST20 (non pro) which I paid for. They said it was a logistics error and that I can keep the ST20 Pro. I offered to resend the ST20 Pro back to them, but they declined. They ain't sending the non pro ST20 over, but I'm not gonna fight with them to resend it. Haha it may seem though that the regular non pro ST20 is gonna be easier to fit and is more conventional.


----------



## Scuba Devils

My ST20 (non Pro, unless it is a Pro!) has arrived in Ireland according to the tracking and being 'assessed' by customs - I guess I'll have it quite soon, once they've decided how much to charge me!


----------



## Xinlisupreme

Even mine arrived in Italian custom, i hope i'll have it in 15days


----------



## azerty6713

yincrow rw-3000 incomming in my house !!


----------



## syazwaned

Ronion said:


> Okay, my ears have cleared a bit or recharged or whatever and I took some time to compare these buds again.  The LBBs are definitely a substantial notch below the SMABAT ST20pro.  Strangely I was able to get both of these buds to fit well today easily.  Maybe I was sweaty/greasy yesterday?  Anyway, I listened to one piece/song of solo piano, Van Halen, and 50 Cent in an effort to keep it brief.  In every genre, the ST20 has deeper, more textured bass with with better timbre and dynamics.  The soundstage is significantly larger and instrument timbre and separation is definitely superior.  The realism of the piano was actually the most striking and the Van Halen was the least differentiating (not to say that the differences weren’t obvious).  The LBBs sounded like I had cups over my ears in comparison.  The dynamics just weren’t there and the LBBs just didn’t sound full and natural.  The price difference is more substantial than the sonic differences however.  With that said, for the $60 I paid, these ST20 pro are a steal.  I just wish SMABAT had tuned them better.  Maybe I need to give “cable down” another chance.  They were definitely within an acceptable tonal range that way but they did lack treble air.  “Cable up” the air returns but a radical EQ is necessary.  In truth, a 2 volt output is also necessary and 4 wouldn’t hurt with the EQ.  The LBBs shines on just 1v and offers perfect comfort if not an absolutely perfect fit for me.  So far I have to say that the SMABAT are the best buds I’ve heard technically but take a significant amount of manipulation to perform their best and their not the most comfortable with the shark fins for stabilization.  Another method may prove beneficial.


Whoa thanks! The fit is going to be a huge concern for me.. But the way yoy describes is looks like it is a price to pay for its top tier sound quality


----------



## ValSuki

Been making my own personal buds for a bit and only recently I am starting to go fully custom, my own shell and unique tuning to drivers I use. Im really happy that everyone who got them has enjoyed them. I was planning on quitting making these if impressions were ok, but a lot say they very much enjoyed them to where Im going to continue! Because sound is a go... im making them look and feel better now 

Custom hakugei connectors, and soon my own unique look for the buds which will have a resin finish, and wont impact acoustics. They were originally called Valar 1's but guess i gotta upgrade! 




Here is a photo of them from a friend!


----------



## shenshen

ValSuki said:


> Been making my own personal buds for a bit and only recently I am starting to go fully custom, my own shell and unique tuning to drivers I use. Im really happy that everyone who got them has enjoyed them. I was planning on quitting making these if impressions were ok, but a lot say they very much enjoyed them to where Im going to continue! Because sound is a go... im making them look and feel better now
> 
> Custom hakugei connectors, and soon my own unique look for the buds which will have a resin finish, and wont impact acoustics. They were originally called Valar 1's but guess i gotta upgrade!
> 
> ...


Love to see new makers pushing boundaries, excited to see where you land with this!


----------



## DBaldock9

ValSuki said:


> Been making my own personal buds for a bit and only recently I am starting to go fully custom, my own shell and unique tuning to drivers I use. Im really happy that everyone who got them has enjoyed them. I was planning on quitting making these if impressions were ok, but a lot say they very much enjoyed them to where Im going to continue! Because sound is a go... im making them look and feel better now
> 
> Custom hakugei connectors, and soon my own unique look for the buds which will have a resin finish, and wont impact acoustics. They were originally called Valar 1's but guess i gotta upgrade!
> 
> ...



Those look nice, and probably very comfortable.
If you're selling earbuds, you may need to contact the Head-Fi Admins, to see if your user classification should be "Member of the Trade".


----------



## ValSuki

DBaldock9 said:


> Those look nice, and probably very comfortable.
> If you're selling earbuds, you may need to contact the Head-Fi Admins, to see if your user classification should be "Member of the Trade".



Whoops, that may be a good idea! I'll get that checked out now.


----------



## chinmie

samandhi said:


> My temporary solution:



only folks from this thread would come up with a solution like this


----------



## foniak

If you buy 2 products from the same shop they will arrive in the same package? I've never bought more than one earbud at once and I want to buy the 2 earbuds from nicehck shop and im wondering if it will arrive on the same day or on 2 packages.


----------



## Ronion

syazwaned said:


> Whoa thanks! The fit is going to be a huge concern for me.. But the way yoy describes is looks like it is a price to pay for its top tier sound quality


I wonder if there are others with similar SQ but a better fit and no need to EQ?  I imagine that there are, but I wouldn’t know what to suggest.  EQ is essential with these IMO.


----------



## Ronion

ValSuki said:


> Been making my own personal buds for a bit and only recently I am starting to go fully custom, my own shell and unique tuning to drivers I use. Im really happy that everyone who got them has enjoyed them. I was planning on quitting making these if impressions were ok, but a lot say they very much enjoyed them to where Im going to continue! Because sound is a go... im making them look and feel better now
> 
> Custom hakugei connectors, and soon my own unique look for the buds which will have a resin finish, and wont impact acoustics. They were originally called Valar 1's but guess i gotta upgrade!
> 
> ...


That looks like a very sensible shell.  Question is, where are you going with these?


----------



## jeejack

foniak said:


> If you buy 2 products from the same shop they will arrive in the same package? I've never bought more than one earbud at once and I want to buy the 2 earbuds from nicehck shop and im wondering if it will arrive on the same day or on 2 packages.


I always received them in the same package


----------



## syazwaned

Ronion said:


> I wonder if there are others with similar SQ but a better fit and no need to EQ?  I imagine that there are, but I wouldn’t know what to suggest.  EQ is essential with these IMO.


Rw3000 might be it. But need to wait for few month until the price srop 😂


----------



## ValSuki

Ronion said:


> That looks like a very sensible shell.  Question is, where are you going with these?



Now that I believe I am able to discuss these things...

I plan to make this an on going project of making earbuds to my personal preference that take a shell thats 3d printable, simple yet durable, and easy to modify for your own acoustic preference (meaning changing different parts of the shell to make something more bassy, add treble or so on). While having my personal experience in working for small groups as a general artist to produce unique looking designs, I want themes with my own buds, to make them "not another mx500" because there are already people out there who do such a good job with this. Newbsounds, blur, Lumen, and many other diyers have inspired me to produce these and I just want to be able to go in and make something to be proud of, which im getting close to. Its mostly a personal project that I want to share with friends and others, but I would love to do this for as long as I can.

So far, I have what are known as Valar 1's which is essentially the prototype for my buds, but they will go to their v2 state once I get better materials for packaging and cables. I'm trying to not make a company or be someone who seeks to be the best, I dont want that, I'm just another hobbyist who wants to show others my passion for sound and buds in my own, unique artistic way.


----------



## FranQL

ValSuki said:


> Now that I believe I am able to discuss these things...
> 
> I plan to make this an on going project of making earbuds to my personal preference that take a shell thats 3d printable, simple yet durable, and easy to modify for your own acoustic preference (meaning changing different parts of the shell to make something more bassy, add treble or so on). While having my personal experience in working for small groups as a general artist to produce unique looking designs, I want themes with my own buds, to make them "not another mx500" because there are already people out there who do such a good job with this. Newbsounds, blur, Lumen, and many other diyers have inspired me to produce these and I just want to be able to go in and make something to be proud of, which im getting close to. Its mostly a personal project that I want to share with friends and others, but I would love to do this for as long as I can.
> 
> So far, I have what are known as Valar 1's which is essentially the prototype for my buds, but they will go to their v2 state once I get better materials for packaging and cables. I'm trying to not make a company or be someone who seeks to be the best, I dont want that, I'm just another hobbyist who wants to show others my passion for sound and buds in my own, unique artistic way.



I hope you don't follow the trend of multiplying the cost price by 10 or 20!

Please share your models, I think it's a great idea, good luck.


----------



## samandhi

ValSuki said:


> Now that I believe I am able to discuss these things...
> 
> I plan to make this an on going project of making earbuds to my personal preference that take a shell thats 3d printable, simple yet durable, and easy to modify for your own acoustic preference (meaning changing different parts of the shell to make something more bassy, add treble or so on). While having my personal experience in working for small groups as a general artist to produce unique looking designs, I want themes with my own buds, to make them "not another mx500" because there are already people out there who do such a good job with this. Newbsounds, blur, Lumen, and many other diyers have inspired me to produce these and I just want to be able to go in and make something to be proud of, which im getting close to. Its mostly a personal project that I want to share with friends and others, but I would love to do this for as long as I can.
> 
> So far, I have what are known as Valar 1's which is essentially the prototype for my buds, but they will go to their v2 state once I get better materials for packaging and cables. I'm trying to not make a company or be someone who seeks to be the best, I dont want that, I'm just another hobbyist who wants to show others my passion for sound and buds in my own, unique artistic way.


Good for you! I personally support people like you that desire that passion over pure greed. I look forward to seeing what you can accomplish (still can't wait for planars also BTW... ).


----------



## ValSuki

FranQL said:


> I hope you don't follow the trend of multiplying the cost price by 10 or 20!
> 
> Please share your models, I think it's a great idea, good luck.


Haha don't worry! I want to make it affordable but not something too cheap that can be disregarded.


----------



## FranQL

ValSuki said:


> Haha don't worry! I want to make it affordable but not something too cheap that can be disregarded.


Don't get me wrong, your work is worth money, but quality - price is important.


----------



## athiker94 (Feb 24, 2022)

Wow. I've been listening to the RY4s earbuds (braided cable) with a vintage Marantz 2230 and am completely blown away with these little buds. Just hard to believe that sound is this cheap.


----------



## Sam L

athiker94 said:


> Wow. I've been listening to the RY4s earbuds (braided cable) with a vintage Marantz 2230 and am completely blown away with these little buds. Just hard to believe that sound is this cheap.


Lol. Yep. Welcome to this group of audiophiles who had the same awakening. It is truly amazing, the sound you get from these cheap buds


----------



## Buchi (Feb 25, 2022)

I received my Smabat ST20 and as others have said, it's really a big and heavy piece but the sound is splendid. Using double foams, silicon cover + full foam or an earhook made the fit better for me. The sound from it is richer than say the M2Spro with super point drivers installed. The bass hits harder, better clarity, timbre and wider soundstage. Sadly, the LBBS feels obliterated in comparison.

This is my endgame earbud. I'm happy I took the bait at half the retail price. If anything sounds better than it, I'm sure I won't be able to afford it.


----------



## baskingshark

Buchi said:


> I received my Smabat ST20 and as others have said, it's really a big and heavy piece but the sound is splendid. Using double foams, silicon cover + full foam or an earhook made the fit better for me. The sound from it is richer than say the M2Spro with super point drivers installed. The bass hits harder, better clarity, timbre and wider soundstage. Sadly, the LBBS feels obliterated in comparison.
> 
> This is my endgame earbud. I'm happy I took the bait at half the retail price. If anything sounds better than it, I'm sure I won't be able to afford it.



Great to hear! (No pun intended).

Is yours the ST20 pro or non pro version?


----------



## jeejack

Buchi said:


> I received my Smabat ST20 and as others have said, it's really a big and heavy piece but the sound is splendid. Using double foams, silicon cover + full foam or an earhook made the fit better for me. The sound from it is richer than say the M2Spro with super point drivers installed. The bass hits harder, better clarity, timbre and wider soundstage. Sadly, the LBBS feels obliterated in comparison.
> 
> This is my endgame earbud. I'm happy I took the bait at half the retail price. If anything sounds better than it, I'm sure I won't be able to afford it.


Sory bro but i dont trust you 😉.


----------



## FranQL (Feb 25, 2022)

I have had ST20 for 3 days, in my case I don't have any adjustment problems, it fits perfectly to my ears with the foam. But when it comes to sound the extreme treble peak, YES, is in this LCP50 Ohm, once again. How to explain it, bells that sound like cowbells, piano hard thuds that dig into your brain, trumpets that sound like a train horn, etc.

This ruins any other feature of his enormous SQ potential, as the quality is here.

There is a solution, either EQ or... DIY.

I was not going to give my opinion, but I prefer to bring some caution before an unstoppable hype.


----------



## jeejack

FranQL said:


> I have had ST20 for 3 days, in my case I don't have any adjustment problems, it fits perfectly to my ears with the foam. But when it comes to sound the extreme treble peak, YES, is in this LCP50 Ohm, once again. How to explain it, bells that sound like cowbells, piano thuds that dig into your brain, trumpets that sound like a train horn, etc.
> 
> This ruins any other feature of his enormous SQ potential, as the quality is here.
> 
> ...


Thank you hermano!


----------



## rprodrigues

Buchi said:


> I received my Smabat ST20 and as others have said, it's really a big and heavy piece but the sound is splendid. Using double foams, silicon cover + full foam or an earhook made the fit better for me. The sound from it is richer than say the M2Spro with super point drivers installed. The bass hits harder, better clarity, timbre and wider soundstage. Sadly, the LBBS feels obliterated in comparison.
> 
> This is my endgame earbud. I'm happy I took the bait at half the retail price. If anything sounds better than it, I'm sure I won't be able to afford it.



That's weird because I've read comments on them that are on the opposite side (regardless of reaching a good fit).

Wouldn't you kill the treble response with all that foams?

Would you mind telling us what other buds do you own?


----------



## sutosuto

baskingshark said:


> Great to hear! (No pun intended).
> 
> Is yours the ST20 pro or non pro version?


Just a wild thought, it might be Smabat selectively sends the "wong unit" to some of us.

I got ST20 non pro as ordered. It is too big for my ears, hardly stay in my ears 😥


----------



## Buchi

baskingshark said:


> Great to hear! (No pun intended).
> 
> Is yours the ST20 pro or non pro version?


Non Pro version.


----------



## Buchi

jeejack said:


> Sory bro but i dont trust you 😉.


Not a problem 😊


----------



## athiker94

Sam L said:


> Lol. Yep. Welcome to this group of audiophiles who had the same awakening. It is truly amazing, the sound you get from these cheap buds


I noticed that you rotate the 300ohm version. I haven't tried these yet. Do you like them? How does the sound differ from the other ones. Thanks.


----------



## el-bo

Hi! Long time lurker, first-time poster...in this thread 

Did come across a checklist/questionnaire for newbs to fill in, but can't seem to find it anymore. If anyone knows where it is, and can link it, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!


----------



## FranQL

WoodyLuvr said:


> *EARBUD RECOMMENDATION REQUEST CHECKLIST*
> For those newbs looking for a flathead-earbud recommendation from the Earbuds Round-Up thread gang, the following data is extremely helpful:
> 
> *source* _(Smartphone, DAC, AMP, DAP, PC, Streamer, etc.)_
> ...





el-bo said:


> Hi! Long time lurker, first-time poster...in this thread
> 
> Did come across a checklist/questionnaire for newbs to fill in, but can't seem to find it anymore. If anyone knows where it is, and can link it, I'd appreciate it.
> 
> Thanks!



there you have it sir


----------



## el-bo

@FranQL Thats it! Many thanks. Will consider my replies, and answer soon


----------



## Eduardiofilo

Hi, i want to squeeze my amp (Atom amp) so if you could recommend me a good pair of high impedance earbuds or drivers that would help me a lot.

Thank you.


----------



## rprodrigues

Eduardiofilo said:


> Hi, i want to squeeze my amp (Atom amp) so if you could recommend me a good pair of high impedance earbuds or drivers that would help me a lot.
> 
> Thank you.




 QIGOM's White Lotus (aliexpress.com/item/1005001844956951.html / https://shopee.com.mx/ORIGINAL-QIGO...-Earplugs-HIFI-EarbudS-i.402165050.6581746340)


----------



## Eduardiofilo

rprodrigues said:


> QIGOM's White Lotus (aliexpress.com/item/1005001844956951.html / https://shopee.com.mx/ORIGINAL-QIGO...-Earplugs-HIFI-EarbudS-i.402165050.6581746340)


Thanks. I have heard that sound like VE Zen. Is that true?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Eduardiofilo said:


> Thanks. I have heard that sound like VE Zen. Is that true?


Yes, some similarities but the VE Zen 2 has much better bass presentation; better details; not as laid-back sounding.


----------



## rprodrigues

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, some similarities but the VE Zen 2 has much better bass presentation; better details; not as laid-back sounding.



And costs about 9x ...


----------



## Eduardiofilo

rprodrigues said:


> And costs about 9x ...


That is why I will buy White lotus instead ven zen


----------



## ss2625

hello there bud experts!
i'm trying to get back into the bud game (been away for a while) and was wondering what some of the endgame buds might be right now?
my preferred signature is neutral with a little bass boost, and i listen to mostly instrumental and pop.
right now i have the rose masya (which i like), and tried the em5 (which i didn't like).
thanks!


----------



## n00b

ss2625 said:


> hello there bud experts!
> i'm trying to get back into the bud game (been away for a while) and was wondering what some of the endgame buds might be right now?
> my preferred signature is neutral with a little bass boost, and i listen to mostly instrumental and pop.
> right now i have the rose masya (which i like), and tried the em5 (which i didn't like).
> thanks!


consider yincrow-rw3000. good musical tuning, will definitely have the bass you're looking for. feels fairly balanced and engaging. the titanium shell and MMCX replaceable cable makes it more durable theoretically than the similar TOTL at the $300+ range. chaconne and bell ti/plus are also titanium but the wires are fixed and mine have failed on the bell ti plus already. i listen to mostly pop (kpop with female vocals) and the rw3000 are keepers. ive bought and returned the fiio em5 twice to make sure i didnt like them.


----------



## ss2625

n00b said:


> consider yincrow-rw3000. good musical tuning, will definitely have the bass you're looking for. feels fairly balanced and engaging. the titanium shell and MMCX replaceable cable makes it more durable theoretically than the similar TOTL at the $300+ range. chaconne and bell ti/plus are also titanium but the wires are fixed and mine have failed on the bell ti plus already. i listen to mostly pop (kpop with female vocals) and the rw3000 are keepers. ive bought and returned the fiio em5 twice to make sure i didnt like them.


thanks for the rec. i will have to check them out ^^


----------



## syazwaned

n00b said:


> consider yincrow-rw3000. good musical tuning, will definitely have the bass you're looking for. feels fairly balanced and engaging. the titanium shell and MMCX replaceable cable makes it more durable theoretically than the similar TOTL at the $300+ range. chaconne and bell ti/plus are also titanium but the wires are fixed and mine have failed on the bell ti plus already. i listen to mostly pop (kpop with female vocals) and the rw3000 are keepers. ive bought and returned the fiio em5 twice to make sure i didnt like them.


How deep is the bass in rw3000?


----------



## n00b

syazwaned said:


> How deep is the bass in rw3000?


its not the deepest i have but it isn't lacking. i dont know how to answer this question as i dont have any meaningful way of measuring bass depth.


----------



## Ronion

So I’m a bit ashamed to admit it, but I’m loving the ST20 pro with my EQ settings.  I took off the 1 dB bass boost and it could be tweaked a little further, but it’s as balanced as any bud I’ve heard barring maybe 1.  It does run out of gas on 2v, so 4v is a necessity.  of course it does get loud enough on 2v, but only “just” loud enough.  Now I need a cable solution and softer shark fins….


----------



## baskingshark

Ronion said:


> So I’m a bit ashamed to admit it, but I’m loving the ST20 pro with my EQ settings.  I took off the 1 dB bass boost and it could be tweaked a little further, but it’s as balanced as any bud I’ve heard barring maybe 1.  It does run out of gas on 2v, so 4v is a necessity.  of course it does get loud enough on 2v, but only “just” loud enough.  Now I need a cable solution and softer shark fins….



Actually if smabat came out with a V2 of the ST20 Pro which fixes the horrendous fit (but keeping the same sound), I think this set will be up there with some of the TOTL earbuds.

The fit is the achilles heel of this set. Small movements will make the earbud misalign in the ear and this warps the sound signature tremendously. I have to use this set while stationary, can't even move around the house to do housework as the buds will invariably move around in the ear.

Also, some not well versed in rolling foams and using silicone rings/fins will just give up and sell it away.

I have a feeling though that the huge shell is intentional in terms of affecting the sound (smabat's labyrinth design, which affects the subbass).


----------



## el-bo (Feb 26, 2022)

Ok...Here goes:


*source* - iPad, phone, mp3 player etc. Strictly un-amped.
*preferred connection* - Single 3.5mm. Has to be straight as L-shaped likely won't work with my tank-like iPad case.
*listening level & session length - *Volume? As low as I can get away with. Session length? Depends on how good they are 
*listening environment* - Anywhere/Everywhere. 
*preferred sound signature* - Neutral/balanced on the whole, but with a soupçon of a smile...for fun.
*preferred music genre - *Eclectic. Mainly for music production, but if they sound good and are comfortable, they could be used for everything incl. podcasts
*preferred shell type *- My only preference would be to avoid earpod-shaped, as they give me a lot of pain in my right-ear, within ten minutes of use.
_*preferred brand*_ - None, although it'd be really nice if it was something that could be obtained from Amazon, in Spain (I know this is unlikely)
*budget* - As little as I can get away with, at the moment. Would consider waiting-and-saving, and would certainly consider 2nd-hand
*special need and/or consideration* - With mic and remote would make it a possible all-rounder, though I'm certain this will rule-out a lot of cheaper giant-killer options. I'll take a hit on the mic/remote in deference to other more important factors. But wouldn't mind being made aware of some with in-line controls.

Ultimately, my main use-case will be for iPad music-production. Specifically, I want something balanced enough that I can trust to make destructive audio edits, while out-and-about. An example of this will be combining different sounds, then (re)sampling them into a cohesive whole, after which the original sound sources will likely be discarded. It's all done purely as a hobby (At least for the moment), and so I'm not looking for pro-level gear. Even if the budget were there (And it really isn't), I need something that can be thrown into and dragged out of a rucksack, at various points throughout a day.

I'd like to try my hand at some Hip-Hop production, at some point, but other than that I'll mainly be concentrating on Ambient music, with electronic and acoustic elements.

In terms of Ambient production, a lot of the material e.g drones, will sit at the upper bass, lower-mid/mid range, so I'd like something that isn't bloated in the upper-bass/lower-mids, so as to avoid congestion in that area. I mentioned Hip-Hop as I also want some measure of punch, if possible. But again, as long as it isn't bloated/congested.

The reason i no longer want to use iems is partly because I don't want to be putting anything that deep into my ear, anymore. But also, I want a more zoomed-out, objective perspective on what's going on. Not sure if that makes sense, at all. When I use iems, I'm right inside the sound/music (Though, maybe it's more accurate to say it's right inside me...literally), where the bass is dominant and obscuring the rest of the panorama. But when I listen to ear-buds (at least with my minimal experience), it feels like I'm 'standing' outside the music, 'looking' in. Perhaps a better analogy (or not   ) would be the difference between watching a film in 2D or 3D. 3D might be more engaging/enveloping; enjoyable, perhaps. But it's hard to know where the edges are. 2D is flatter, in comparison, but much easier to get an overall perspective on what's happening.

As much nonsense as that description likely is, it's how I felt last night, plugging in my lightning-cabled earpods, after years of being in iems.

On one hand, it was clearly much less immersive. But on the other, the bass was no longer drilling directly into my head, and that left the mid-range singing...which I found to be much more engaging. Of course, being stock Apple earbuds, the experience was slightly lacking. However, not as much as I'd have imagined, and certainly in the ball-park of where I'm looking. If they had slightly better isolation, a bit more bass and less veiled/more detailed, I could imagine using them...

...except for the comfort issue. I used to wear these types of earpods years ago, as I was able to listen while doing my job, and still maintaining complete awareness of my surroundings. Back then, I wore then with sleeves and this meant I could listen for hours. The sleeves also helped with isolation and bass, but at the expense of clarity. Now, without the sleeves, I cant wear them for more than 15 minutes without pain in right ear where the pod tapers down to the speaker grill 

tl;dr: I'm looking for a more comfortable, more revealing, non-fatiguing, slightly-bassier ear-pod...I think.

Two other times I've been wowed by in-ear sound. 1) KEF M200 (My current iem) and 2) Yuin G2A. These blew me away, and made me listen to more and more music just so I could listen to them more - an end in itself, as it were.

Too much rambling, f'sure. Any ideas? 

Thanks!


----------



## Sam L

athiker94 said:


> I noticed that you rotate the 300ohm version. I haven't tried these yet. Do you like them? How does the sound differ from the other ones. Thanks.


Sound is much more balanced compared to the typical warm, mid bass bloated earbud sound. I don't have the low impedance version to compare with. Another excellent value, as most buds are. Lol

Be warned they need lots of power to drive. My only tiny gripe is that the stems are a bit long since a mmcx cable adds some length.


----------



## Sam L

Anyone see these before?

UCOTECH ES-P1 Flagship Edition Double Dome Dynamic with Brass Housing 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KY7F11N/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_67NKVF081PA6KJ9BBD3H


----------



## FranQL (Feb 26, 2022)

el-bo said:


> Ok...Here goes:
> 
> 
> *source* - iPad, phone, mp3 player etc. Strictly un-amped.
> ...



Well, being Spanish I think I'm going to read your answer in detail, to see if I can help you get a great bud, or at least meet your expectations. If you want to, of course.


----------



## mochill

Eduardiofilo said:


> Thanks. I have heard that sound like VE Zen. Is that true?


I ordered 2 pairs


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Sam L said:


> Anyone see these before?
> 
> UCOTECH ES-P1 Flagship Edition Double Dome Dynamic with Brass Housing
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KY7F11N/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_67NKVF081PA6KJ9BBD3H


*Very Recent*
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16826323

*Sometime Back*
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16637656


----------



## foniak

What are you top 3 must have "classics" of the sub €20 ish range so far? I want to get started by buying like 3 or 4 at once

I have on my list:
-x6
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...1;14.34;-1;-1@salePrice;EUR;search-mainSearch

-mx500
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...1;15.33;-1;-1@salePrice;EUR;search-mainSearch

-b40
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...-1;7.61;-1;-1@salePrice;GBP;search-mainSearch

What would you add?


----------



## FranQL (Feb 26, 2022)

foniak said:


> ¿Cuáles son tus 3 mejores "clásicos" del rango de menos de 20 € hasta ahora? Quiero empezar comprando como 3 o 4 a la vez
> 
> Tengo en mi lista:
> -x6
> ...


HE150
TG38S
Vido
Iris Ancestor


----------



## el-bo (Feb 26, 2022)

FranQL said:


> Well, being Spanish I think I'm going to read your answer in detail, to see if I can help you get a great bud, or at least meet your expectations. If you want to, of course.


Pues muchísímas gracias


----------



## Charlyro222

Let's see what Ve Asura 3.0Fe can do against the outstanding Sennheiser hd800s and this sweet male vocal jazz.


----------



## Charlyro222

FranQL said:


> Well, being Spanish I think I'm going to read your answer in detail, to see if I can help you get a great bud, or at least meet your expectations. If you want to, of course.


Spaniard must be (like me) 
LoL


----------



## Ronion

FranQL said:


> HE150
> TG38S
> Vido
> Iris Ancestor


This is the right answer!


----------



## FranQL

Charlyro222 said:


> Let's see what Ve Asura 3.0Fe can do against the outstanding Sennheiser hd800s and this sweet male vocal jazz.



Nothing, can do absolutely nothing....


----------



## Ronion

el-bo said:


> Ok...Here goes:
> 
> 
> *source* - iPad, phone, mp3 player etc. Strictly un-amped.
> ...


A man after my own Heart.  With a commercial bud that’s readily available to you, you are probably out of luck To be honest.  If you are willing to order from China and wait to build yourself a set, then you have a lot of options. A couple commercial buds which would likely have to ship from China are just outside your wheelhouse.  The genres your writing in are what make it difficult.  For instance, if you were mostly writing for piano, the TG38 would be an easy recommendation and it’s cheap.  The response just isn’t as extended as you need.  The HE150 has too much bass to be neutral, but it’s cheap, detailed and has an awesome headstage.  If the iPad had a more viable means of EQ, I’d be willing to make you a profile that would work.  Both of those are about as detailed as headphones get and less than 20 USD.  I want to make an EQ profile for the HE150.  It’s on my list of things to do.  Perhaps @FranQL will help you with a set…..  ask him nicely lol.


----------



## jeejack

foniak said:


> What are you top 3 must have "classics" of the sub €20 ish range so far? I want to get started by buying like 3 or 4 at once
> 
> I have on my list:
> -x6
> ...


None ! I have them


----------



## Ronion

jeejack said:


> None ! I have them


I wouldn’t be shocked if the White Lotus should be on that list as well.


----------



## el-bo

Ronion said:


> A man after my own Heart.  With a commercial bud that’s readily available to you, you are probably out of luck To be honest.  If you are willing to order from China and wait to build yourself a set, then you have a lot of options. A couple commercial buds which would likely have to ship from China are just outside your wheelhouse.  The genres your writing in are what make it difficult.  For instance, if you were mostly writing for piano, the TG38 would be an easy recommendation and it’s cheap.  The response just isn’t as extended as you need.  The HE150 has too much bass to be neutral, but it’s cheap, detailed and has an awesome headstage.  If the iPad had a more viable means of EQ, I’d be willing to make you a profile that would work.  Both of those are about as detailed as headphones get and less than 20 USD.  I want to make an EQ profile for the HE150.  It’s on my list of things to do.  Perhaps @FranQL will help you with a set…..  ask him nicely lol.


Many thanks!

I kinda knew that the Amazon off-the-shelf approach would be a waste of a wish  And I think I'm a bit ham-fisted, or at least impatient, for DIY. I don't mind waiting on Chines options to arrive. One issue I'd worry about is surprise customs charges. But more than that, the lack of that oh-so-good 'Prime' refund-ability makes me nervous. As I'm currently unemployed, I can't afford too many 'runs' at this. Kinda hoping for a one-and-done experience, but perhaps that's wishful thinking?

Regarding EQ? The i-Stuff does indeed fail in regards to EQ...for general listening. But when it comes to production, I can stick any EQ on a master-bus  The only issue being that under normal listening conditions the un-EQ'd sound would be so different, I'd have a hard time 'learning' them.

One favour to ask, though. Please, when referring to different models, specify the make. I'm sure these are very familiar to hose who know this scene, but that's not me 

Are you also producing with the iPad?

Thanks, again


----------



## RikudouGoku

Ronion said:


> I wouldn’t be shocked if the White Lotus should be on that list as well.


The preassembled Red dot by NSC might be there as well.

(I have both the NSC Red dot and the White Lotus ordered though.)


----------



## samandhi

Sam L said:


> Anyone see these before?
> 
> UCOTECH ES-P1 Flagship Edition Double Dome Dynamic with Brass Housing
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KY7F11N/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_67NKVF081PA6KJ9BBD3H


Yes. I STILL would like to have those. A while back (on this thread I shared my experience) I tried to buy them. You can't buy them through Amazon, they will cancel your order, and write to you telling you to contact them to buy them (because of COVID). I tried contacting them, and the first 2 times, I was able to talk to them. They didn't seem to want to send an order to the US. They had arguments about why it wasn't a good time to buy these (through the 2 emails we sent back and forth) but said they would send them if I REALLY wanted them. I tried to reply that I would like them, but by that time they marked my email address as spam, and that is the last I heard from them. I simply gave up.


----------



## Sam L

Sam L said:


> Anyone see these before?
> 
> UCOTECH ES-P1 Flagship Edition Double Dome Dynamic with Brass Housing
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KY7F11N/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_67NKVF081PA6KJ9BBD3H





samandhi said:


> Yes. I STILL would like to have those. A while back (on this thread I shared my experience) I tried to buy them. You can't buy them through Amazon, they will cancel your order, and write to you telling you to contact them to buy them (because of COVID). I tried contacting them, and the first 2 times, I was able to talk to them. They didn't seem to want to send an order to the US. They had arguments about why it wasn't a good time to buy these (through the 2 emails we sent back and forth) but said they would send them if I REALLY wanted them. I tried to reply that I would like them, but by that time they marked my email address as spam, and that is the last I heard from them. I simply gave up.


That's disappointing. I think I'll still try and see what happens. Wish me luck


----------



## samandhi (Feb 26, 2022)

Sam L said:


> That's disappointing. I think I'll still try and see what happens. Wish me luck


Good luck sir! If/when you get them, you'll let us know how they sound?


----------



## Ronion (Feb 26, 2022)

el-bo said:


> Many thanks!
> 
> I kinda knew that the Amazon off-the-shelf approach would be a waste of a wish  And I think I'm a bit ham-fisted, or at least impatient, for DIY. I don't mind waiting on Chines options to arrive. One issue I'd worry about is surprise customs charges. But more than that, the lack of that oh-so-good 'Prime' refund-ability makes me nervous. As I'm currently unemployed, I can't afford too many 'runs' at this. Kinda hoping for a one-and-done experience, but perhaps that's wishful thinking?
> 
> ...


I do play music using the iPad, but I wouldn’t really call myself a producer.  I mostly write music the old school way with dots on a staff using an acoustic piano.  Most of what I write comes from an improvisation, write it down and repeat, then string them together, practice, practice, and more practice.

even putting an EQ on the master bus has limitations.  It’s useful, particularly when mixing multiple instruments, to have reference recordings for comparison.  It’s still possible as long as you own the reference recordings, you can embed your EQ into them, put them into the HiBy app and then send your mix with the EQ embedded to HiBy (or whatever app you want to use for the purpose).  You can always do the opposite as well (import reference recordings on to a stereo track).  In any case, I don’t like that work flow and I make mistakes when the Belgians come over.  Too much ABV.    Reference recordings will keep you honest until you‘re an expert.

I can one up the manufacturer and just provide links:

https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/he-150ohm.html

There’s a possibility that the pro version of that is more neutral but I really don’t know for sure:

https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/he-150pro.html

Finally, the Tingo you can buy from the Chitty Store on AliExpress.  I cannot get the link to work so I’ll just tell you where to go.


----------



## el-bo

Ronion said:


> I do play music using the iPad, but I wouldn’t really call myself a producer.  I mostly write music the old school way with dots on a staff using an acoustic piano.  Most of what I write comes from an improvisation, write it down and repeat, then string them together, practice, practice, and more practice.
> 
> even putting an EQ on the master bus has limitations.  It’s useful, particularly when mixing multiple instruments, to have reference recordings for comparison.  It’s still possible as long as you own the reference recordings, you can embed your EQ into them, put them into the HiBy app and then send your mix with the EQ embedded to HiBy (or whatever app you want to use for the purpose).  You can always do the opposite as well (import reference recordings on to a stereo track).  In any case, I don’t like that work flow and I make mistakes when the Belgians come over.  Too much ABV.    Reference recordings will keep you honest until you‘re an expert.
> 
> ...


Haha, yeah! That 'Producer' word has unfortunately taken on negative connotations. When I use i, I'm doing so in the sense that I produce music as well as partake of it. It needn't mean EDM or BEATZ producers (Not that I'm, disparaging any forms of creation). In the same sense, I would count you as a producer of music i,e You (we) produce/make music. And traditional is all good Had kinda set myself a target of learning theory, this year. Too early to say how that's going 

Would love to hear your stuff if you ever feel comfortable to share 

Anyway, i'm no real expert, and having to drastically alter a profile by EQ seems like a loser from the get-go.

In 'pm' conversations with Fran, I observed the L-cable of the 150's, plus the higher-ohmage, to be factors that might suggest giving them a miss. I also questioned whether pushing the budget into the realms of 40-50 euros might change the landscape of options, in any meaningful way?

Will have a look at the Tingo, though

Thanks, again


----------



## samandhi (Feb 26, 2022)

el-bo said:


> Ok...Here goes:
> 
> 
> *source* - iPad, phone, mp3 player etc. Strictly un-amped.
> ...


BTW! Very well written and concise as to what you are looking for. Well done!

The only rec I could possibly offer you, because I have no DIY buds, would be something from "off the shelf" (that would meet most/all of your needs). Keep in mind that there isn't really anything out there that will offer any better isolation than the Apple earbuds (I assume you are talking about the classic earbuds, and not the Earpods). The Yincrow RW 2000 offer about the closest experience to IEMs (balanced sound) that I have come across until lately, which is the newest Sony Linkbuds (BT). But the Linkbuds won't have the overall quality in sound than the RW2000 because they are BT. That being said, I don't really think you will have an issue with bass bloat with ANY earbuds IMO, though some (most) DO use midbass to cover up the fact that the subbass is very rolled off.

Plus, with the RW2000 there is a replaceable cable (MMCX), where you could buy a separate cable with a mic onboard (though the stock cable is probably one of the best I have seen for an earbud, and even a lot of IEMs).

Major downside for you though, is that they aren't exactly cheap @$120-$150 and have to be ordered from China (at least from the US).

Other than that, a good DIY might be the best solution as @Ronion suggests.


----------



## assassin10000

el-bo said:


> Ok...Here goes:
> 
> 
> *source* - iPad, phone, mp3 player etc. Strictly un-amped.
> ...



It's possibly a bit too V-shaped but maybe the K's LBBS with mic? If you have smaller ears these may fit better.


But sounds like DIY may be the only way to get what you're looking for.


----------



## FranQL

el-bo said:


> Haha, yeah! That 'Producer' word has unfortunately taken on negative connotations. When I use i, I'm doing so in the sense that I produce music as well as partake of it. It needn't mean EDM or BEATZ producers (Not that I'm, disparaging any forms of creation). In the same sense, I would count you as a producer of music i,e You (we) produce/make music. And traditional is all good Had kinda set myself a target of learning theory, this year. Too early to say how that's going
> 
> Would love to hear your stuff if you ever feel comfortable to share
> 
> ...





assassin10000 said:


> It's possibly a bit too V-shaped but maybe the K's LBBS with mic? If you have smaller ears these may fit better.
> 
> 
> But sounds like DIY may be the only way to get what you're looking for.



Another option could be Smabat M2Spro, in addition to being able to put a cable with a microphone, it has several driver options if the one that comes from the series does not fit your sound, here the bass is not bad and it is within the price range. Also Yincrow RW1000 bass version.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Sam L said:


> Anyone see these before?
> 
> UCOTECH ES-P1 Flagship Edition Double Dome Dynamic with Brass Housing
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KY7F11N/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_67NKVF081PA6KJ9BBD3H





samandhi said:


> Yes. I STILL would like to have those. A while back (on this thread I shared my experience) I tried to buy them. You can't buy them through Amazon, they will cancel your order, and write to you telling you to contact them to buy them (because of COVID). I tried contacting them, and the first 2 times, I was able to talk to them. They didn't seem to want to send an order to the US. They had arguments about why it wasn't a good time to buy these (through the 2 emails we sent back and forth) but said they would send them if I REALLY wanted them. I tried to reply that I would like them, but by that time they marked my email address as spam, and that is the last I heard from them. I simply gave up.





Sam L said:


> That's disappointing. I think I'll still try and see what happens. Wish me luck





samandhi said:


> Good luck sir! If/when you get them, you'll let us know how they sound?


I think you saved yourselves from a huge disappointment and some hard earned cash... they were lackluster at best in the sound department but damn they were well made and bordering epic 'eye cady' standards for sure!


WoodyLuvr said:


> *Very Recent*
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16826323
> 
> *Sometime Back*
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16637656


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> I think you saved yourselves from a huge disappointment and some hard earned cash... they were lackluster at best in the sound department but damn they were well made and bordering epic 'eye cady' standards for sure!


So the earbuds gods ARE looking out for me?!


----------



## Ronion

el-bo said:


> Haha, yeah! That 'Producer' word has unfortunately taken on negative connotations. When I use i, I'm doing so in the sense that I produce music as well as partake of it. It needn't mean EDM or BEATZ producers (Not that I'm, disparaging any forms of creation). In the same sense, I would count you as a producer of music i,e You (we) produce/make music. And traditional is all good Had kinda set myself a target of learning theory, this year. Too early to say how that's going
> 
> Would love to hear your stuff if you ever feel comfortable to share
> 
> ...


Believe it or not, I made the most imbalanced earbuds I’ve ever heard into the most balanced earbuds I’ve ever heard with EQ.  I literally took acoustic measurements of my calibrated home theater in the sweet spot of a perfect stereo triangle.  Then I learned to mould my ears, and after a dozen attempts or so I got a close approximation (took some carving) and made a measurement rig from it.  I can line up the curves pretty closely but a lot of careful ear squinting is still necessary due to differences.  The Silicone I used doesn’t have the exact compliance as my own ears, nor does it make any oil.  So the graphs are going to be a bit different for sure.  I’m also sure the mics aren’t in the exact same position.  Nonetheless, it works remarkably well.  Oh, and my mic is deficient above 9kHz.  they should work well for most people as the ear is constant.  I even modified the room to comply with the acquired data regarding how we hear measured acoustics in small rooms.  In any case, myEQ wouldn’t be just a guess.  They’re at least an educated and effortful guess lol.

here’s the most recently written piece that I’ve recorded.  It just the first movement of the first Sonatina I’ve written.  Right now I’m working on my first Sonata.  It’s essentially about COVID
<iframe width="100%" height="300" scrolling="no" frameborder="no" allow="autoplay" src=""></iframe><div style="font-size: 10px; color: #cccccc;line-break: anywhere;word-break: normal;overflow: hidden;white-space: nowrap;text-overflow: ellipsis; font-family: Interstate,Lucida Grande,Lucida Sans Unicode,Lucida Sans,Garuda,Verdana,Tahoma,sans-serif;font-weight: 100;"><a href="https://soundcloud.com/dantheman-10" title="dantheman-10" target="_blank" style="color: #cccccc; text-decoration: none;">dantheman-10</a> · <a href="" title="Sonatina No. 1 For Piano Trio, 1st Movt" target="_blank" style="color: #cccccc; text-decoration: none;">Sonatina No. 1 For Piano Trio, 1st Movt</a></div>


----------



## Sam L

WoodyLuvr said:


> A fellow Thai audiophile and I bought a *Ucotech ES-P1 (~USD455)* and *Audio-Technica ATH-CM2000Ti (~USD475)* together last year and we each spent more than a month comparing the two earbuds with one another. We both found the *ATH-CM2000Ti* performed the best, literally doing circles around the *ES-P1 *which I have to admit is probably one of the nicest made/finished pair of earbuds I have ever laid eyes or hands on. It has this crazy industrial slash steam punk vibe about it that looks really cool... I just wished it sounded as good as it looked. Surprisingly they were quite comfortable despite how heavy (very heavy!) they are being made of solid brass! The *ATH-CM2000Ti *are made out of titanium alloy and thus much lighter in comparison to the *ES-P1* but are still rather large and cumbersome so those with small ears may run into a fit comfort issue with this one (I had trouble wearing them). And although the *ATH-CM2000Ti* leans strongly to the bright side of things and are bass light I still easily preferred them over the warmer *ES-P1*... which is usually my preferred signature but the treble and higher mid-range are so rolled off and lack luster (no sparkle or magic at all) on the *ES-P1 *that it came across rather boring and wonky sounding to me.
> 
> If your heart is totally set on ordering a pair I would STRONGLY URGE you order directly from Ucotech's on-line store especially if you are after the ES-P1 as a number of counterfeits have been reported ( *official store here* ). You will need to call/email and arrange shipping with them but they do ship from South Korea.


Is the cm2000ti still competitive today?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Feb 27, 2022)

Sam L said:


> Is the cm2000ti still competitive today?


Though I absolutely do consider them to be god-tier level by timbre and resolution performance alone I must warn that these earbuds are very bright and aggressive leaning. They are specifically tuned for Asian music, especially female poison (aka Asian female vocals)... so K-Pop, Chinese Ballads, J-Pop/Rock, Anime OST, etc. There is a lot of sparkle in them that is quite addictive but unfortunately very fatiguing for treble-sensitive listeners. They are very well made with excellent finish. One other issue (outside of fit for some ears) is that they are quite expensive though their price has dropped slightly and I have seen them as low as USD $399.


----------



## Sam L

WoodyLuvr said:


> Though I absolutely do consider them to be god-tier level by timbre and resolution performance alone I must warn that these earbuds are very bright and aggressive leaning. They are specifically tuned for Asian music, especially female poison (aka Asian female vocals)... so K-Pop, Chinese Ballads, J-Pop/Rock, Anime OST, etc. There is a lot of sparkle in them that is quite addictive but unfortunately very fatiguing for treble-sensitive listeners. They are very well made with excellent finish. One other issue (outside of fit for some ears) is that they are quite expensive though their price has dropped slightly and I have seen them as low as USD $399.


Is there more treble than the maria ii?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Feb 27, 2022)

Sam L said:


> Is there more treble than the maria ii?


The *Audio-Technica ATH-CM2000Ti* are ever so slightly brighter than the *Rose Technics Maria I & II*.  And a tad more aggressive sounding than the *DQSM Turandot* with certain genres/recordings. A comparative earbud would be something from the *PISLO* line up which are even more strongly tuned towards "_female poison_". With that said, I prefer the *Turandot *(my wife has them) or *Maria II* (which are fatiguing for me unfortunately) over the *ATH-CM2000Ti*.




*Audio-Technica ATH-CM2000Ti*
_Primary_ = *Mid-Centric - Aggressive*
_Secondary (Strong)_ = *Hard-Harsh *(Forward Upper Midrange aka "Female Poison")
_Secondary (Weak)_ = *Bright & Sibilant *("Airy")
_Tertiary (Complementing) _= *Aggressive, Detailed, Critical, & Hard-Harsh*
_Tertiary (Opposing)_ = *None*

The overall general tuning for *ATH-CM2000Ti* is a *primary sound signature* that is "_mid-centric - aggressive_" favoring female vocals. It has a very* strong secondary signature*_* (dark blue shaded balloon) *_reaching out to "_hard-harsh_" that moves it into a mild "_female poison_" tuning position but it is never too "_forward_" or "_shouty_" in the mids. A* weak secondary signature*_* (light blue shaded balloon) *_reaching deep into "_bright_" gives it an "_airy_" feel but can also make it overly "_bright_" and mildly "_sibilant_". It exhibits four (4) prominent *complimenting tertiary signature (green shaded arrows)* one of which reaches even deeper into "_aggressive_"; the other reaches out to "_detailed_" for excellent resolution and timbre in the upper registers (vocals); while the third is quite "_critical_" (overly "_analytical_" and "_clinical_") especially with some types of recordings and music genres; and the fourth characteristic which is slightly "_hard-harsh_" in the lower treble with western vocals. I did not detect any *opposing tertiary signature.*


----------



## pr0b3r

Just sharing my fav Vido variant. 😁✌🏼


----------



## el-bo

samandhi said:


> BTW! Very well written and concise as to what you are looking for. Well done!
> 
> The only rec I could possibly offer you, because I have no DIY buds, would be something from "off the shelf" (that would meet most/all of your needs). Keep in mind that there isn't really anything out there that will offer any better isolation than the Apple earbuds (I assume you are talking about the classic earbuds, and not the Earpods). The Yincrow RW 2000 offer about the closest experience to IEMs (balanced sound) that I have come across until lately, which is the newest Sony Linkbuds (BT). But the Linkbuds won't have the overall quality in sound than the RW2000 because they are BT. That being said, I don't really think you will have an issue with bass bloat with ANY earbuds IMO, though some (most) DO use midbass to cover up the fact that the subbass is very rolled off.
> 
> ...


Many thanks!

Those RW 2000's look stunning, but well outside my current budget. As for the Linkbuds? The biggest issue with BT for music-making is the latency it introduces. It's not an issue when just listening, but it will throw off any attempt to perform/record another track while listening to the audio from a previous track. Just unworkable, unfortunately.

Definitely getting the impression that bass just won't be a thing for earbuds, and it definitely has me second-guessing my choice to pursue them. Having said that, i did wake up during the night and was unable to get back to sleep. Second night in a row, and second might I ended up listening to music via Earpods (iPhone 7 iteration) and being engaged with music like I haven't been for a long-time. It's not just the extra focus from just listening in the dead of the night, but the significantly different sound profile to the dark, veiled Avantree bluetooth things that are my daily-walkabout drivers.. I actually found a nice selection of songs that made the Earpods 'sing'. However, as much as I enjoyed the presence and excitement, I still felt a slight itch for the missing bass. So still unsure. What I absolutely don't want, however, is the use of mid-bass to hide the lack


----------



## el-bo

assassin10000 said:


> It's possibly a bit too V-shaped but maybe the K's LBBS with mic? If you have smaller ears these may fit better.
> 
> 
> But sounds like DIY may be the only way to get what you're looking for.


Thanks!

Been looking into these, and they seem like they might've shot to the top of the list. But it was in looking into these that I started to panic about lacking bass. This review had me both enthused and worried:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ks-temperament-小黑铃-bell-lbbs.25331/

On one hand they seem to have all the clarity, soundstage and sweetness I want. But on the other hand (specifically when looking at the comparisons section), the overwhelming impression I get is that everything else is better for bass. Even if I got used to it for general listening (Perhaps even using EQ), I'm wondering if I'd be at a loss when making audio decisions for that part of the spectrum. Obviously I can't work with these for sub-bass, but...but...Too many buts, really.

The size thing is definitely in it's favour - Comfort it key. But they also come with ear-hooks, which offers such a convenience boost for me, that they could easily become my almost-everything head-gear.

How would you say the bass compares to the Earpods (2nd-gen, I believe), assuming you've heard them?


----------



## el-bo

FranQL said:


> Another option could be Smabat M2Spro, in addition to being able to put a cable with a microphone, it has several driver options if the one that comes from the series does not fit your sound, here the bass is not bad and it is within the price range. Also Yincrow RW1000 bass version.



Thanks! Like I said, in reply to your 'pm', this kind of click 'n' snap assembly is the kind of DIY I can probably get my mind and paws around. Reading this review, it seems that the out-of-the-box iteration is not going to suit:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-m2s-pro.25238/

But of course, the modular aspect would seem to make that irrelevant. The only thing is buying the extra modules will result in more cost and more waiting time. Hmmm....So many decisions


----------



## el-bo

Ronion said:


> Believe it or not, I made the most imbalanced earbuds I’ve ever heard into the most balanced earbuds I’ve ever heard with EQ.  I literally took acoustic measurements of my calibrated home theater in the sweet spot of a perfect stereo triangle.  Then I learned to mould my ears, and after a dozen attempts or so I got a close approximation (took some carving) and made a measurement rig from it.  I can line up the curves pretty closely but a lot of careful ear squinting is still necessary due to differences.  The Silicone I used doesn’t have the exact compliance as my own ears, nor does it make any oil.  So the graphs are going to be a bit different for sure.  I’m also sure the mics aren’t in the exact same position.  Nonetheless, it works remarkably well.  Oh, and my mic is deficient above 9kHz.  they should work well for most people as the ear is constant.  I even modified the room to comply with the acquired data regarding how we hear measured acoustics in small rooms.  In any case, myEQ wouldn’t be just a guess.  They’re at least an educated and effortful guess lol.
> 
> here’s the most recently written piece that I’ve recorded.  It just the first movement of the first Sonatina I’ve written.  Right now I’m working on my first Sonata.  It’s essentially about COVID
> <iframe width="100%" height="300" scrolling="no" frameborder="no" allow="autoplay" src=""></iframe><div style="font-size: 10px; color: #cccccc;line-break: anywhere;word-break: normal;overflow: hidden;white-space: nowrap;text-overflow: ellipsis; font-family: Interstate,Lucida Grande,Lucida Sans Unicode,Lucida Sans,Garuda,Verdana,Tahoma,sans-serif;font-weight: 100;"><a href="https://soundcloud.com/dantheman-10" title="dantheman-10" target="_blank" style="color: #cccccc; text-decoration: none;">dantheman-10</a> · <a href="" title="Sonatina No. 1 For Piano Trio, 1st Movt" target="_blank" style="color: #cccccc; text-decoration: none;">Sonatina No. 1 For Piano Trio, 1st Movt</a></div>



Thanks! Enjoying your music, and have followed. Will patiently await you Sonata 

Seems like you've gone to great lengths to improve your sound profiles, and it's encouraging to think that I might be able to rescue anything that isn't quite there, with just a few adjustments. and yeah, definitely need to make using reference tracks a bigger part of my workflow


----------



## el-bo

FranQL said:


> Another option could be Smabat M2Spro, in addition to being able to put a cable with a microphone, it has several driver options if the one that comes from the series does not fit your sound, here the bass is not bad and it is within the price range. Also Yincrow RW1000 bass version.


Actually, looking at the M2Spro it's  already outside my budget. Once shipping costs are factored in, plus the change of cable (Seems to come with L-shaped?) and different drive (To back off the bass), things look like they could become quite costly. Not dismissing them entirely. And if I were currently employed, this would be a very different conversation.

I'm starting to think that what I want might cost more than I have to spend, and that if I stick to my original idea of an Earpod with slightly more bass and less veiled presentation, that this might perhaps make the choice both easier and cheaper. In other words, it shouldn't be too difficult or expensive to improve on the few choices I currently own.


----------



## el-bo

The plot thickens...

Id initially dismissed the Smabat M2Spro on account of the L jack. That's how it is shown on the page at AliEx:

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005...sp&spm=a2g0o.detail.1000023.14.662b3db6AkM7QL

But on Smabat's site, they're shown as straight:

https://www.smabat.com/products/the...novative-modular-headset-professional-edition

They're also cheaper on the official site. Still out of reach, but even with a couple of different drivers they're not crazy expensive. Might have to file this under 'Some Day'.

Of course, the M0 may still be a contender, alongside the LBBS and, very possibly the Tingo TG38s (Ronion's caution about extension notwithstanding). The Tingo's are very cheap, although opinion seems pretty divided.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 27, 2022)

el-bo said:


> The Tingo's are very cheap, although opinion seems pretty divided.


I wouldn't think twice, If I am you 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3731#post-16445306


----------



## Sam L (Feb 27, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> The *Audio-Technica ATH-CM2000Ti* are ever so slightly brighter than the *Rose Technics Maria I & II*.  And a tad more aggressive sounding than the *DQSM Turandot* with certain genres/recordings. A comparative earbud would be something from the *PISLO* line up which are even more strongly tuned towards "_female poison_". With that said, I prefer the *Turandot *(my wife has them) or *Maria II* (which are fatiguing for me unfortunately) over the *ATH-CM2000Ti*.
> 
> ​*Audio-Technica ATH-CM2000Ti*
> _Primary_ = *Mid-Centric - Aggressive*
> ...


thank you! that's two god-tier-ish orders you saved me from, this and the ucotech. I recently decided to not get the sony ier-z1r and started snapping up some other audio purchases recently but I think I'm going to go back to saving up for the z1r again and re-consider getting it.... for the 15th time in the last 2 years. haha.


----------



## Ronion

The Tingo TG38 is more than just a bargain.  It’s a rarity.  Maybe the hyper detailed huge soundstage bothers some people?  The only deficiencies it has are deep bass and it still has good bass for an earbud and It’s slightly shy on (perfect) pinna gain and treble air, but in all honesty it’s got one of the best responses out there with at least average bass for a bud and one of the highest resolution and largest soundstages of any transducer (Not just a bud).  I bought 2 of these just to have one as a backup in case something happens and it becomes unobtainable.  perhaps some people don’t like them, but it’s not really a fault of the bud.  People have preferences.

The HE150 is similar in that regard but it does have a boosted bass and its pinna gain is also lower than it should be ideally and also comes in a bit lower frequency-wise than it should.  It’s not a challenging bud to correct with EQ and with what you write and how much you want to spend, I’d bet you can’t beat it in any ‘headphone’ typology.  Buds are THE bargain of the audio world.  If you were doing acoustic instruments, I’d tell you to take the Tingo.  For electronic music, the HE150 in the price class.  Again, I wouldn’t be shocked if the White Lotus should also be on this list.


----------



## Sam L

quick question... I know I can look it up, but where's the fun in that? 
I'm wondering what the differences in these Ksearphone mobels? the mic and no mic option are self explanatory, but the lb-s? is it a cable difference?

https://www.amazon.com/Ksearphone-Bell-LB-Earphone-Earplugs-Bell-LB-S/dp/B08FCBMSGP


----------



## el-bo

furyossa said:


> I wouldn't think twice, If I am you
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3731#post-16445306


What if i consider only once, but for most of the night and into the day?   

I'm definitely taking your recommendation into consideration. It certainly matches with a lot of opinions. But on the other hand, I've seen a few opinions like this:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/das...-reviews-and-impressions.711844/post-10615083

and already been advised in this thread that they might not work well for my specific needs. I know one type will not work for everyone. I just can't tell how much of this comes down to ear-type, source equipment, amping etc. Honestly, were I not such a loser I'd be in a position to buy all of them, passing on which I felt less inclined towards. But alas...


----------



## el-bo

Ronion said:


> The Tingo TG38 is more than just a bargain.  It’s a rarity.  Maybe the hyper detailed huge soundstage bothers some people?  The only deficiencies it has are deep bass and it still has good bass for an earbud and It’s slightly shy on (perfect) pinna gain and treble air, but in all honesty it’s got one of the best responses out there with at least average bass for a bud and one of the highest resolution and largest soundstages of any transducer (Not just a bud).  I bought 2 of these just to have one as a backup in case something happens and it becomes unobtainable.  perhaps some people don’t like them, but it’s not really a fault of the bud.  People have preferences.
> 
> The HE150 is similar in that regard but it does have a boosted bass and its pinna gain is also lower than it should be ideally and also comes in a bit lower frequency-wise than it should.  It’s not a challenging bud to correct with EQ and with what you write and how much you want to spend, I’d bet you can’t beat it in any ‘headphone’ typology.  Buds are THE bargain of the audio world.  If you were doing acoustic instruments, I’d tell you to take the Tingo.  For electronic music, the HE150 in the price class.  Again, I wouldn’t be shocked if the White Lotus should also be on this list.


Thanks, again!

I know this is such a newb question...and repetitive, but do the TG38's have better bass than the Ear-pods, circa 2016? It's just they're the only current reference I have for earbuds, and which spurred my current interest in upgrading.

I do understand the point about preferences, which is why it's so hard to navigate this terrain, and part of the reason (I'm guessing) why enthusiasts just keep trying different options. Any personal notions of 'one-and-done' seem pretty comedic at this point. And without good ol' 'Prime' next-day-delivery and refund policy, it makes the whole decision even more difficult. I don't mind waiting 6 weeks, for something I know will work. But I'm not sure what happens in the case it doesn't.

This is the 2nd time you've praised the Tingos while also saying that they're likely not going to be the ideal music-production all-rounder that i need. Seems like it's best to rule them out, unless I can work out a way of affording them alongside another cheap pair...y'know, for ships and jiggles 

Your either recommendations seem solid (The HE150 suggestion was also echoed by @FranQL), but seem outside my need for un-amped, prosumer-driven 'cans'.

How would you say the TG38's compare to the LBBS, presuming you've tried the 2nd option? The LBBS seem like a comfort safe-bet, but wary about the possible lack of bass (less so than is even expected for earbuds?). The Smabat 0's and pros are another option, given the easy tweakability...if they suit my ear...and when I can save up (For the Pro, that is).


----------



## rprodrigues (Feb 27, 2022)

@el-bo

Get both HE150 and TG38s. They are the two best budget sets one may grab nowadays.

If you are about bass, then forget LBBS due to its 'weak' (but enough for me) bass response. You gonna thank us all for doing so.


----------



## Ronion

The Tingo is clearer with a larger soundstage and more neutral treble (regardless of reviews that may say otherwise).  I’ve measured them both and the Tingo I have 2 samples.  The LBBs have a very comfortable fit for me, but not as stable as an MX500 shell like the Tingo has and is relatively less comfortable though still pretty good.  The HE150 has an identical shell to the Tingo.  The 150 is still doable with a 1v output, but the 2v may be preferred.


----------



## el-bo

rprodrigues said:


> @el-bo
> 
> Get both HE150 and TG38s. They are the two better budget sets one may grab nowadays.
> 
> If you are about bass, then forget LBBS due to it's  'weak' (but enough for me) bass response. You gonna thank us all for doing so.


Thanks!

I'm really not "about bass"  I'm certainly no bass-head, What I want is for everything to be in it's right place. not interested in hyped frequencies, but just the same I don't want them subdued. My interest is towards balance, and for music-making more than listening.

My only current reference comes from the Apple Earpods that cam with my iPhone 7. And while I find them engaging, and much better than they could've been, they seem to be veiled and actually lacking in bass. Moreover, I have comfort issues when wearing them for even a short amount of time. So, really I'm just looking for something that can beat what I currently have. The LBBS seem to have it nailed on everything (even comfort), but I'm still curious if anyone can compare the LBBS to those older Earpods, with regard to bass. I know the LBBS are definitely not bass=heavy even amongst earbuds, but can they really have less and/or poorer bass than stock earpods?

As for the 150's? Still wary about the idea of  driving 150ohms from a phone and tablet, and @Ronion has made it pretty clear that the TG38's aren't going to cover the breadth of styles I'm looking for.


----------



## assassin10000

el-bo said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Been looking into these, and they seem like they might've shot to the top of the list. But it was in looking into these that I started to panic about lacking bass. This review had me both enthused and worried:
> 
> ...





el-bo said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I'm really not "about bass"  I'm certainly no bass-head, What I want is for everything to be in it's right place. not interested in hyped frequencies, but just the same I don't want them subdued. My interest is towards balance, and for music-making more than listening.
> 
> ...



I haven't heard the earpods.

I'm not a basshead, I prefer a DF neutral signature (etymotic) and actually EQ some mid-bass from the LBBS. It does have sub-bass but hearing it is highly dependant on a good fit.


----------



## HombreCangrejo

el-bo said:


> The plot thickens...
> 
> Id initially dismissed the Smabat M2Spro on account of the L jack. That's how it is shown on the page at AliEx:
> 
> ...



Take into account that the official site does not apply VAT in the shown prices. They even don't charge it when making the order, so you have to be prepared to anything from the nice boys of ADT.


----------



## samandhi

el-bo said:


> Many thanks!
> 
> Those RW 2000's look stunning, but well outside my current budget. As for the Linkbuds? The biggest issue with BT for music-making is the latency it introduces. It's not an issue when just listening, but it will throw off any attempt to perform/record another track while listening to the audio from a previous track. Just unworkable, unfortunately.
> 
> Definitely getting the impression that bass just won't be a thing for earbuds, and it definitely has me second-guessing my choice to pursue them. Having said that, i did wake up during the night and was unable to get back to sleep. Second night in a row, and second might I ended up listening to music via Earpods (iPhone 7 iteration) and being engaged with music like I haven't been for a long-time. It's not just the extra focus from just listening in the dead of the night, but the significantly different sound profile to the dark, veiled Avantree bluetooth things that are my daily-walkabout drivers.. I actually found a nice selection of songs that made the Earpods 'sing'. However, as much as I enjoyed the presence and excitement, I still felt a slight itch for the missing bass. So still unsure. What I absolutely don't want, however, is the use of mid-bass to hide the lack





el-bo said:


> The plot thickens...
> 
> Id initially dismissed the Smabat M2Spro on account of the L jack. That's how it is shown on the page at AliEx:
> 
> ...


From all that you are saying, I really don't think that true earbuds will be what you are looking for. The Earpods are a semi-closed (or open depending on how you look at it) design. If you are saying that the quantity of bass is not enough on those then you will not be able to get near that with flat-head earbuds. Quality of bass is more on the lines of what you will find with earbuds. 

It is the design that enables them to have bass that rivals or even goes further than some IEMs. Since they have a tube that shoots the sound into your ear, it will not be that way with a flathead earbud. Another solution though might be to get some cheap buds and try a pad that comes to a tube (making them like the Earpods, which they DO sell on Aliexpress). The problem with this is that noone can say how good/bad those buds sound that way, because nobody really buys and listens to them in that way, and that sort of thing changes the entire sound profile. 

You almost need to see if you can borrow some earbuds to see what I am talking about. The bass is all there, but it isn't near as big as even the Earpods offer.


----------



## RikudouGoku

samandhi said:


> From all that you are saying, I really don't think that true earbuds will be what you are looking for. The Earpods are a semi-closed (or open depending on how you look at it) design. If you are saying that the quantity of bass is not enough on those then you will not be able to get near that with flat-head earbuds. Quality of bass is more on the lines of what you will find with earbuds.
> 
> It is the design that enables them to have bass that rivals or even goes further than some IEMs. Since they have a tube that shoots the sound into your ear, it will not be that way with a flathead earbud. Another solution though might be to get some cheap buds and try a pad that comes to a tube (making them like the Earpods, which they DO sell on Aliexpress). The problem with this is that noone can say how good/bad those buds sound that way, because nobody really buys and listens to them in that way, and that sort of thing changes the entire sound profile.
> 
> You almost need to see if you can borrow some earbuds to see what I am talking about. The bass is all there, but it isn't near as big as even the Earpods offer.


@el-bo 

Check out the Yincrow RW-100 if you want that type of shell. It is at least decent (although I do take the Yincrow X6 over it).


----------



## samandhi

RikudouGoku said:


> @el-bo
> 
> Check out the Yincrow RW-100 if you want that type of shell. It is at least decent (although I do take the Yincrow X6 over it).


Good call! I believe that is really going to be the only way to get the amount of bass he is looking for from a bud(esc) design?!


----------



## RikudouGoku

samandhi said:


> Good call! I believe that is really going to be the only way to get the amount of bass he is looking for from a bud(esc) design?!


I think there are regular MX500 buds with enough bass to satisfy them though.

Like the X6.


----------



## rprodrigues

samandhi said:


> Good call! I believe that is really going to be the only way to get the amount of bass he is looking for from a bud(esc) design?!



Nah.
Snow Lotus (s300 drivers) and Seahf F150C have a lot of good bass, but Snow Lotus is warm whilst F150C is V-shaped.
Even HE150 is a bass cannon (good quality).


----------



## foniak

jeejack said:


> None ! I have them


So you agree with that top 3? I will start buying these 3 then. If someone wants to add more go on. I prefer to buy a bunch at once because I don't like to wait for a random hour for different packages to arrive, so ideally all to be sold on the same shop. The b40 is not on the NiceHCK shop so I may replace that one with another one.


----------



## Sam L

foniak said:


> What are you top 3 must have "classics" of the sub €20 ish range so far? I want to get started by buying like 3 or 4 at once
> 
> I have on my list:
> -x6
> ...


I agree with this list, all exceptional sound for the price


----------



## Ronion

@el-bo needs more than bass.  He needs to hear separation, clarity, timbre, reverb, compression, clicks, pops, distortions, etc… assuming he really wants to do this.  Vidos or X6 can give you the big picture in a comfortable fashion, but they’re not really capable of the finer things.  If he doesn’t want to EQ or use an amp, as far as I know his only real choice is the Tingo as far as I‘ve heard and measured.


----------



## MelodyMood

Anyone has NiceHCK EB2S? How is the sound quality? Also, Does it has open back and leak sound means if I am listening something, someone can else also hear that clearly? And overall good clear sound with lots of details but not harsh? Decent bass?


----------



## jeejack

Search here, they are some


----------



## jeejack

MelodyMood said:


> Anyone has NiceHCK EB2S? How is the sound quality? Also, Does it has open back and leak sound means if I am listening something, someone can else also hear that clearly? And overall good clear sound with lots of details but not harsh? Decent bass?


https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-eb2s.25729/reviews#review-28052


----------



## Xinlisupreme

Finally ST20 arrived!
Unfortunately they didn’t provide 4.4 as agreed… 😢
Anyway I like it with RS6 and stock Donuts
Silicon tips aren’t good in my ears I need to get something to push buds 🤣
Always same issue


----------



## Scuba Devils

Same for me @Xinlisupreme - arrived with 3.5mm  Anyway, I had a Kbear 4.4mm MMCX at the ready! Haven't had time to really test yet but fit a bit of a struggle with the standard foams, I'll try donuts later


----------



## Xinlisupreme

Donuts sound far better and not muddy… I’m burning it but I’ll test with W2 and Gryphon also.
I haven’t MMCX good cable and stock looks very similar to **** cables


----------



## samandhi

Xinlisupreme said:


> Finally ST20 arrived!
> Unfortunately they didn’t provide 4.4 as agreed… 😢
> Anyway I like it with RS6 and stock Donuts
> Silicon tips aren’t good in my ears I need to get something to push buds 🤣
> Always same issue


WOW! Now that I am looking at pictures of those, they actually look a lot like the (monstrosities that are) Maria II, at least in overall shape/size.

I have found some hooks that work great with the Maria II, and I suspect with the ST20(pro) also. The hook part is changeable and comes in all different sizes (one of which work well and is big enough to fit the Maria II perfectly). It fits nicely between the shell, and the part that goes into your concha.


----------



## el-bo

Ronion said:


> The Tingo is clearer with a larger soundstage and more neutral treble (regardless of reviews that may say otherwise).  I’ve measured them both and the Tingo I have 2 samples.  The LBBs have a very comfortable fit for me, but not as stable as an MX500 shell like the Tingo has and is relatively less comfortable though still pretty good.  The HE150 has an identical shell to the Tingo.  The 150 is still doable with a 1v output, but the 2v may be preferred.


Not sure the voltage of the iPad outpu


assassin10000 said:


> I haven't heard the earpods.
> 
> I'm not a basshead, I prefer a DF neutral signature (etymotic) and actually EQ some mid-bass from the LBBS. It does have sub-bass but hearing it is highly dependant on a good fit.


Thanks! Not a bass-head, either. But I'm getting the impression that I want more than I'm likely to be able to get from earbuds.


----------



## el-bo

HombreCangrejo said:


> Take into account that the official site does not apply VAT in the shown prices. They even don't charge it when making the order, so you have to be prepared to anything from the nice boys of ADT.


Thanks! Very useful information, as I'd definitely rather front-load my extras


----------



## el-bo

RikudouGoku said:


> @el-bo
> 
> Check out the Yincrow RW-100 if you want that type of shell. It is at least decent (although I do take the Yincrow X6 over it).


Thanks!

Actually, I used to listen to earpods for hours a day, but I had silicone sleeves covering them. Now, without the sleeves, I find the earpods to be very uncomfortable. That makes me wary about trying others of a similar shape.


----------



## el-bo

samandhi said:


> From all that you are saying, I really don't think that true earbuds will be what you are looking for. The Earpods are a semi-closed (or open depending on how you look at it) design. If you are saying that the quantity of bass is not enough on those then you will not be able to get near that with flat-head earbuds. Quality of bass is more on the lines of what you will find with earbuds.
> 
> It is the design that enables them to have bass that rivals or even goes further than some IEMs. Since they have a tube that shoots the sound into your ear, it will not be that way with a flathead earbud. Another solution though might be to get some cheap buds and try a pad that comes to a tube (making them like the Earpods, which they DO sell on Aliexpress). The problem with this is that noone can say how good/bad those buds sound that way, because nobody really buys and listens to them in that way, and that sort of thing changes the entire sound profile.
> 
> You almost need to see if you can borrow some earbuds to see what I am talking about. The bass is all there, but it isn't near as big as even the Earpods offer.


Thanks! 

Quite surprised by your answer. I really thought that some of these flat-heads could definitely top the earpods, and that it was just that the majority of enthusiasts preferred a different tuning. And actually, after reading your comment, I did go back and spend more time with the earpods. The bass is definitely there, but only seems to really show if a track is demanding it..which I find quite interesting. More than that, If I rotate the buds forward/downward a little, the bass does increase pretty significantly, but of course it comes a the expense of the rest of the frequencies.

The suggestion to use pads that end in a tube is interesting, but I can't imagine the effects of funnelling all that openness through a small being good for anything but the bass 

I seem to be in between a rock and a hard place. Either i need earbuds with more bass and isolation than is possible, or iems that have less bass, more balance and less isolation.

It's definitely a shame that I can't borrow to test, or that Amazon don't have a large range in stock. I can see the only way that this is going to work out is if I buy a handful,  hoping that at least one of them works, then selling on those that don't. But I don't quite have the funds for that, at the moment. Soon, perhaps.


----------



## el-bo

samandhi said:


> Good call! I believe that is really going to be the only way to get the amount of bass he is looking for from a bud(esc) design?!


Thanks! As I said to @RikudouGoku, the shape unfortunately is the source of some discomfort in my ears


----------



## el-bo

rprodrigues said:


> Nah.
> Snow Lotus (s300 drivers) and Seahf F150C have a lot of good bass, but Snow Lotus is warm whilst F150C is V-shaped.
> Even HE150 is a bass cannon (good quality).


Thanks!

Putting aside my wariness about driving higher stuff un-amped, I am curious about your "bass cannon" comment. It seem at odds with the idea that earbuds are not capable of much bass


----------



## Xinlisupreme

samandhi said:


> WOW! Now that I am looking at pictures of those, they actually look a lot like the (monstrosities that are) Maria II, at least in overall shape/size.
> 
> I have found some hooks that work great with the Maria II, and I suspect with the ST20(pro) also. The hook part is changeable and comes in all different sizes (one of which work well and is big enough to fit the Maria II perfectly). It fits nicely between the shell, and the part that goes into your concha.


Yes it’s 16.1mm, same as Maria II


----------



## el-bo

Ronion said:


> @el-bo needs more than bass.  He needs to hear separation, clarity, timbre, reverb, compression, clicks, pops, distortions, etc… assuming he really wants to do this.  Vidos or X6 can give you the big picture in a comfortable fashion, but they’re not really capable of the finer things.  If he doesn’t want to EQ or use an amp, as far as I know his only real choice is the Tingo as far as I‘ve heard and measured.


Indeed! And unfortunately, i'm coming to the conclusion that want I'm after would cost hundreds in the iem world, and is not available in the earbud world.

I am curious still, though. At some point I'm going to have to order a handful to try. And AliEx is keen to give me a $4 voucher, one delivery cost for the whole package, and a pair of VE Monks for about 3 euros. Unfortunately, they don't seem to stock the Tingo's 

Alternatively, a start a long quest for cheap, reference-quality iems, that isolate well, are comfortable and that don't blow excessive amounts of bass up (in this case, down) the wazoo!

Or maybe I just get some Koss KSC75's


----------



## el-bo (Feb 28, 2022)

Would like to thank everybody for their help. I'm sure it's been a little irritating.

Will be stepping back from the internet for a little while. But I may go ahead with my idea of buying a few key recommendations, and hope to recoup some losses if it all goes 'South'.

I'll come back and report on my findings.

Thanks again


----------



## samandhi

el-bo said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Quite surprised by your answer. I really thought that some of these flat-heads could definitely top the earpods, and that it was just that the majority of enthusiasts preferred a different tuning. And actually, after reading your comment, I did go back and spend more time with the earpods. The bass is definitely there, but only seems to really show if a track is demanding it..which I find quite interesting. More than that, If I rotate the buds forward/downward a little, the bass does increase pretty significantly, but of course it comes a the expense of the rest of the frequencies.
> 
> ...


There ARE a few that you CAN EQ some really large amounts of bass (for earbuds) into them, but those are the ones using the better drivers in them, and cost more than your budget would allow. Though, I might have to second the notion of the Smabat M2S Pro for the budget you have. 

Mabye it IS fitment that is the problem with the Eearpods then for you. I remember when they first came out people were modding them by putting tape over the bass hole on the side to reduce the bass on them because it became fatiguing after time. That tightened them up and made them sound less... cheap. hehe


el-bo said:


> Alternatively, a start a long quest for cheap, reference-quality iems, that isolate well, are comfortable and that don't blow excessive amounts of bass up (in this case, down) the wazoo!


If you are willing to go the IEM route, I don't think it would be near as long of a quest IMO. While not perfect, the CCA CRA ($20 in the US, cheaper elsewhere) can compete with $100-$200 IEMs. They DO have boosted bass, but it is very tastefully done, and not muddy, nor does it bleed into the mids. It is a slight V signature overall. You SHOULD be able to get those on Amazon (which means you can return them). Oh, and you can order them with a mic if you want (it is a 2 pin replaceable cable).


----------



## Xinlisupreme

ST20 sounds very well but it’s big, maybe Rose Maria II 14.8mm should fit better in my ears…
It’s a pity because I really like ST20 out of the box


----------



## Xinlisupreme

samandhi said:


> WOW! Now that I am looking at pictures of those, they actually look a lot like the (monstrosities that are) Maria II, at least in overall shape/size.
> 
> I have found some hooks that work great with the Maria II, and I suspect with the ST20(pro) also. The hook part is changeable and comes in all different sizes (one of which work well and is big enough to fit the Maria II perfectly). It fits nicely between the shell, and the part that goes into your concha.


Never seen before.. where can I buy them?
I’ll skip RW2000 because shoul be big as ST20 and even thicker…


----------



## feverfive

After spending some months now with earbuds (something I had never done previously), the Qian39 are **by far** the best fitting for my ears.

I've already sold my smbat ST20 and have my Penon BS1 listed in Classifieds with the intention of next buying RW3000.  I simply don't want to have even a small "collection" of buds on my hands, hahahaha.  I don't have a set budget for this segment of the hobby and am just playing it by ear, so to speak.


----------



## Xinlisupreme

feverfive said:


> Qian39


How is its tuning?


----------



## samandhi

Xinlisupreme said:


> ST20 sounds very well but it’s big, maybe Rose Maria II 14.8mm should fit better in my ears…
> It’s a pity because I really like ST20 out of the box


The great thing about the Maria II is that you can order either the smaller sized ones or the bigger sized ones to fit your ear better. From what I have read they sound exactly the same (using the same drivers). 


Xinlisupreme said:


> Never seen before.. where can I buy them?
> I’ll skip RW2000 because shoul be big as ST20 and even thicker…


Maybe tomorrow I will put up a link for you. I got them off of amazon. I cannot put up the link today because my Amazon account was hacked this weekend, so until I stop the bleeding, and they reverse the charges made to my accounts, it is locked.

Anyhow, they were very cheap, and come with sizes that would fit the Maria II all the way down to the Chaconne.


Spoiler: Chaconne With Fin
















The RW2000 aren't near the size of the Maria II. They are actually smaller than the Smabat ST10S. About the size of the M2S Pro IMO.


----------



## samandhi

samandhi said:


> The great thing about the Maria II is that you can order either the smaller sized ones or the bigger sized ones to fit your ear better. From what I have read they sound exactly the same (using the same drivers).
> 
> Maybe tomorrow I will put up a link for you. I got them off of amazon. I cannot put up the link today because my Amazon account was hacked this weekend, so until I stop the bleeding, and they reverse the charges made to my accounts, it is locked.
> 
> ...


Or you could go with something like these (I had to snip the ends because they were a bit long for my ears).


Spoiler


----------



## Xinlisupreme

samandhi said:


> The great thing about the Maria II is that you can order either the smaller sized ones or the bigger sized ones to fit your ear better. From what I have read they sound exactly the same (using the same drivers).
> 
> Maybe tomorrow I will put up a link for you. I got them off of amazon. I cannot put up the link today because my Amazon account was hacked this weekend, so until I stop the bleeding, and they reverse the charges made to my accounts, it is locked.
> 
> ...


I thought RW2000 was bigger than Maria II smaller size, ST20 sounds very well with jazz


----------



## jogawag (Feb 28, 2022)

Xinlisupreme said:


> How is its tuning?







https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/qianyun-qian39.21879/


----------



## Xinlisupreme

I like ST20 but I’d prefer something brighter, maybe I can try RW1000 bass boosted for 75€


----------



## Xinlisupreme (Feb 28, 2022)

ST20 is growing a lot and has huge bass with iFi Gryphon, maybe I’d consider a better cable because stock one looks a cheap Y***nY**o
Something like this one
https://a.aliexpress.com/_v0vuq5


----------



## samandhi (Feb 28, 2022)

Xinlisupreme said:


> I thought RW2000 was bigger than Maria II smaller size, ST20 sounds very well with jazz


Yeah, I guess you are right @15mm, but the Smabat M2S Pro are 15.4MM. Most earbuds are around this size. I was referring to the whole shell of the Maria II (double DD drivers) and the ST20 (also double driver). The smallest double driver I have seen in an earbud is the DUNU Alpha 1 (also DD + BA):



Spoiler











Xinlisupreme said:


> ST20 is growing a lot and has huge bass with iFi Gryphon, maybe I’d consider a better cable because stock one looks a cheap Y***nY**o
> Something like this one
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_v0vuq5


I am using one of those cables (not graphene or XINHS though; MMCX version) with my 7Hz Timeless. It is a decent cable. One of these days, I will have to try one of the graphene cables to see if they are decent. I am hearing good things about them, but could just be the hype with the "new" material (even though it is not new hehe).


----------



## foniak (Mar 1, 2022)

Anyone knows if there is any difference between MX500 with the MX500 case vs pk1 case?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32823569005.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2esp&spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.35626fd3Y9AJaZ&algo_pvid=9f631cc4-6b7f-4822-a1fa-baf3b052d37a&algo_exp_id=9f631cc4-6b7f-4822-a1fa-baf3b052d37a-0&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"64969635607"}&pdp_pi=-1;15.33;-1;-1@salePrice;EUR;search-mainSearch



Does it change the sound or its just whatever fits your ear better?


----------



## rkw (Mar 1, 2022)

foniak said:


> Anyone knows if there is any difference between MX500 with the MX500 case vs pk1 case?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32823569005.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2esp&spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.35626fd3Y9AJaZ&algo_pvid=9f631cc4-6b7f-4822-a1fa-baf3b052d37a&algo_exp_id=9f631cc4-6b7f-4822-a1fa-baf3b052d37a-0&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"64969635607"}&pdp_pi=-1;15.33;-1;-1@salePrice;EUR;search-mainSearch
> 
> Does it change the sound or its just whatever fits your ear better?


The MX500 shell is larger than the PK shell and allows more bass. The PK shell is more comfortable for most people.

Edit: The two styles of shells are MX500 and PK (popularized by the Yuin PK series of earbuds). This vendor (NiceHCK) likes to call it PK1, which is the name of Yuin's flagship model.


----------



## XP_98

Hello
I am looking for silicone earhooks (the little wings that fit inside the ear concha) compatible with bell/horn shaped earbuds. This means the silicone ring that comes to block the narrowest part of the earbud has to be very small...
Could someone manage to find this ?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

XP_98 said:


> Hello
> I am looking for silicone earhooks (the little wings that fit inside the ear concha) compatible with bell/horn shaped earbuds. This means the silicone ring that comes to block the narrowest part of the earbud has to be very small...
> Could someone manage to find this ?


VE Clan has some.


----------



## XP_98

LaughMoreDaily said:


> VE Clan has some.


Not the form shown on picture


----------



## jogawag (Mar 1, 2022)

XP_98 said:


> Hello
> I am looking for silicone earhooks (the little wings that fit inside the ear concha) compatible with bell/horn shaped earbuds. This means the silicone ring that comes to block the narrowest part of the earbud has to be very small...
> Could someone manage to find this ?


Like this picture?
If so, @samandhi knows.




Edit:
Looks like I was wrong...


----------



## samandhi

XP_98 said:


> Hello
> I am looking for silicone earhooks (the little wings that fit inside the ear concha) compatible with bell/horn shaped earbuds. This means the silicone ring that comes to block the narrowest part of the earbud has to be very small...
> Could someone manage to find this ?





jogawag said:


> Like this picture?
> If so, @samandhi knows.
> 
> 
> ...


I have a couple different set i am using. I posted a picture of the ones I am using on my Maria II a page or so back. These two are both obtainable from Aliexpress:



Spoiler









When I get home from work, I will try and dig up my order to send a link.


----------



## baskingshark

So for those that have the non pro ST20, how do you folks find the sound? Is it competitive with $100 bracket earbuds? Fit seems big like the Pro version though.


I'm kinda bummed I didn't receive the non pro ST20 as ordered, but for the ST20 Pro that came instead, I would *rate it a 3.5/5*. Very good technically, but let down by horrendous fit. Takes some effort to secure the fitting, and for most folk, it might not work out of the box. Also, for the non crowdfunding price now of $316 USD, that's really quite a lot for a earbud, so diminishing returns are huge. Imagine, one can buy 300 vidos with that coin!!!

Anyways, Smabat Lin has a post here about the acoustic designs and implementation of the ST20 series earbuds:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2386473901653225/posts/2821849761448968/

I think the huge shells do influence the sound of these buds, so not sure if he can get the same sound with a smaller bud (with better fit)?


----------



## FranQL (Mar 1, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> So for those that have the non pro ST20, how do you folks find the sound? Is it competitive with $100 bracket earbuds? Fit seems big like the Pro version though.
> 
> 
> I'm kinda bummed I didn't receive the non pro ST20 as ordered, but for the ST20 Pro that came instead, I would *rate it a 3.5/5*. Very good technically, but let down by horrendous fit. Takes some effort to secure the fitting, and for most folk, it might not work out of the box. Also, for the non crowdfunding price now of $316 USD, that's really quite a lot for a earbud, so diminishing returns are huge. Imagine, one can buy 300 vidos with that coin!!!
> ...


In my case I opened the shell and readjusted the tuning of ST20, the presentation I got is according to my preference and the shell brings a different and interesting resonance that I had not heard before in buds, on the other hand I softened the treble and now the sound is quite technical but with a presentation with a good SQ. As I mentioned before, I have no problems with the fit in my ears. From Stock I would rate it as 2.5/5 at €135.


----------



## el-bo (Mar 1, 2022)

samandhi said:


> There ARE a few that you CAN EQ some really large amounts of bass (for earbuds) into them, but those are the ones using the better drivers in them, and cost more than your budget would allow. Though, I might have to second the notion of the Smabat M2S Pro for the budget you have.
> 
> Mabye it IS fitment that is the problem with the Eearpods then for you. I remember when they first came out people were modding them by putting tape over the bass hole on the side to reduce the bass on them because it became fatiguing after time. That tightened them up and made them sound less... cheap. hehe
> 
> If you are willing to go the IEM route, I don't think it would be near as long of a quest IMO. While not perfect, the CCA CRA ($20 in the US, cheaper elsewhere) can compete with $100-$200 IEMs. They DO have boosted bass, but it is very tastefully done, and not muddy, nor does it bleed into the mids. It is a slight V signature overall. You SHOULD be able to get those on Amazon (which means you can return them). Oh, and you can order them with a mic if you want (it is a 2 pin replaceable cable).


Many thanks!

I really don't have an issue with EQ. i can load a plugin on the master bus to help with 'correction'. As long as I remember to bypass the EQ when bouncing audio, there'd be no issue. The problem, like you say, is that not all head/ear gear takes well to EQ'ing. And the CCA seem to be very much in line with the KZ stuff, which I've been recommended elsewhere. I'm just so wary of that boosted bass. Even if it wasn't muddy, it'd still likely need some nifty cutting to get it to work for my needs.

The more I listen to the Earpods, the more I think Apple got right with them. But yes, the comfort is still an issue even if I could use EQ to open them up slightly and give a little 'round-ness to the bass. I used to be able to wear them from dawn-to-dusk, but I had these sleeves back then:

https://www.amazon.es/gp/product/B00OBSKSNG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They made the pods so comfortable and stopped them being yanked from my ear during my daily work. But the fit did affect the sound in a negative way, so even though I can probably get something similar now, it'd be counter-productive. I dunno...maybe i should just persist with them and see if I get used to the fit and they stop hurting.

I still can't drop the idea of earbuds, but for the moment I'm likely to get some iems (possibly the Beyerdynamic Soul Byrd), or the Koss KSC75, and just get on with things. I'll keep an eye on the 2nd-hand market, here and maybe one day order a few cheapies from AE, just to silence the doubt


----------



## XP_98 (Mar 1, 2022)

samandhi said:


> I have a couple different set i am using. I posted a picture of the ones I am using on my Maria II a page or so back. These two are both obtainable from Aliexpress:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you in advance 
Maybe the right one is tight enough for the narrowest part ?
About the left one : do you think an earbud could fit inside *covered with thin foam* ?


----------



## mt877 (Mar 1, 2022)

Scrounged through my 'junk' drawer and found various old earbuds. Only 2 of them have decent sound, one from Sony and the other one is not branded but is in a pk shell. The Sony's are more mids and treble focused while the un-branded pk ones seem balanced with nice bass, mids, treble. The foams are deteriorated, so I did my test listening with no foams.

Anyway my question is, is 18mm diameter the standard size for replacement foams for most earbuds? I got a small generic pack of 18mm foams from Amazon, but they feel like they're too thick and the fit is loose. The measured earbud diameter was 16mm (both Sony and un-branded pk). Any suggestions for properly fitting replacement foams?

EDIT: Answering my own question... I found a post in this thread about getting foams from Trig Rain store at AliExpress.


----------



## waynes world (Mar 1, 2022)

el-bo said:


> I still can't drop the idea of earbuds, but for the moment I'm likely to get some iems (possibly the Beyerdynamic Soul Byrd), or the Koss KSC75, and just get on with things.





Spoiler: Off topic, but..



_Everyone should have at least one pair of the Koss KSC75's._


----------



## Sam L

waynes world said:


> Spoiler: Off topic, but..
> 
> 
> 
> _Everyone should have at least one pair of the Koss KSC75's._


oops... thanks for the reminder. just ordered:


----------



## samandhi

XP_98 said:


> Thank you in advance
> Maybe the right one is tight enough for the narrowest part ?
> About the left one : do you think an earbud could fit inside *covered with thin foam* ?


Probably not. The idea is to put them around the bud itself (the part that fits into your concha). Both of those will do that. One is stiffer (left) and doesn't need to be stretched as much to fit, while the second one (right) is much more pliable and needs to be stretched to fit the diameter (but it does fit). 

Yes, you can get both of those over foams (of course if you are careful). I have had them set up that way. Here is the link to the one on the right. The other set (left) came with these, but I have seen them on Aliexpress before.


----------



## Ronion

Those look like they’ll do the trick.  Thanks for the suggestion @samandhi


el-bo said:


> Not sure the voltage of the iPad outpu
> 
> Thanks! Not a bass-head, either. But I'm getting the impression that I want more than I'm likely to be able to get from earbuds.


The older iPads are mostly 1v.  Likely stays true with the new ones that still have a jack.  Most IEMs and Buds with do just fine with it.


----------



## XP_98

samandhi said:


> Probably not. The idea is to put them around the bud itself (the part that fits into your concha). Both of those will do that. One is stiffer (left) and doesn't need to be stretched as much to fit, while the second one (right) is much more pliable and needs to be stretched to fit the diameter (but it does fit).
> 
> Yes, you can get both of those over foams (of course if you are careful). I have had them set up that way. Here is the link to the one on the right. The other set (left) came with these, but I have seen them on Aliexpress before.


Thank you !


----------



## Ronion (Mar 2, 2022)

@samandhi , I ordered the ear hooks you got for the Rose Maria, but they sent some crappy version of them that cannot flex at all and they are all too small to fit on the neck of the ST20.

That said, when I put my shark fins back on, the little variation from where I had them placed before has now made them better.  The fit is great again.  I’m going to make a ball 🧢 about it.

here is the EQ I’m sticking with and I have to say these are a new benchmark for me.  It’s derived for cable over ear and a tight but comfortable fit.


----------



## syazwaned

n00b said:


> its not the deepest i have but it isn't lacking. i dont know how to answer this question as i dont have any meaningful way of measuring bass depth.


Thanks friend. Appreciate it


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> @samandhi , I ordered the ear hooks you got for the Rose Maria, but they sent some crappy version of them that cannot flex at all and they are all too small to fit on the neck of the ST20.
> 
> That said, when I put my shark fins back on, the little variation from where I had them placed before has now made them better.  The fit is great again.  I’m going to make a ball 🧢 about it.
> 
> here is the EQ I’m sticking with and I have to say these are a new benchmark for me.  It’s derived for cable over ear and a tight but comfortable fit.


Are these the ones you ordered? If so, it would be good to know if they have changed the product, as they fit just fine on the Maria II (unless the ST20 has a much bigger neck, I would assume they should also fit those). 

Glad you got them squared away to your liking! Enjoy the music friend! 

On another note, I contacted Moodrop about the imbalance on my Chaconne and they told me to contact the seller I bought them from for after-sales service. Normally I wouldn't have a problem with that, but since they are located in China, I am going to have to pay a tidy sum to have them shipped, I would assume (as opposed to shipping them to the US branch of Moondrop). While I DO want them fixed, I really don't want to pay more for a situation that isn't/wasn't my responsibility to begin with (I guess I'm kinda' bull-headed in that way ). I suppose I have until July (1 year warranty) to make the decision. Plus, I hate to be without them for so long (will probably be more than 2 months gone all said and done).


----------



## syazwaned

samandhi said:


> Are these the ones you ordered? If so, it would be good to know if they have changed the product, as they fit just fine on the Maria II (unless the ST20 has a much bigger neck, I would assume they should also fit those).
> 
> Glad you got them squared away to your liking! Enjoy the music friend!
> 
> On another note, I contacted Moodrop about the imbalance on my Chaconne and they told me to contact the seller I bought them from for after-sales service. Normally I wouldn't have a problem with that, but since they are located in China, I am going to have to pay a tidy sum to have them shipped, I would assume (as opposed to shipping them to the US branch of Moondrop). While I DO want them fixed, I really don't want to pay more for a situation that isn't/wasn't my responsibility to begin with (I guess I'm kinda' bull-headed in that way ). I suppose I have until July (1 year warranty) to make the decision. Plus, I hate to be without them for so long (will probably be more than 2 months gone all said and done).


I use to thought my Chaconne have a channel imbalance. Turns out I misplaced the earbuss. The ring one ia on the left while the non ring one is on the right. Weird configuration by the Moondrop


----------



## Ronion (Mar 2, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Are these the ones you ordered? If so, it would be good to know if they have changed the product, as they fit just fine on the Maria II (unless the ST20 has a much bigger neck, I would assume they should also fit those).
> 
> Glad you got them squared away to your liking! Enjoy the music friend!
> 
> On another note, I contacted Moodrop about the imbalance on my Chaconne and they told me to contact the seller I bought them from for after-sales service. Normally I wouldn't have a problem with that, but since they are located in China, I am going to have to pay a tidy sum to have them shipped, I would assume (as opposed to shipping them to the US branch of Moondrop). While I DO want them fixed, I really don't want to pay more for a situation that isn't/wasn't my responsibility to begin with (I guess I'm kinda' bull-headed in that way ). I suppose I have until July (1 year warranty) to make the decision. Plus, I hate to be without them for so long (will probably be more than 2 months gone all said and done).


Ah, I order the wrong set.  They looked similar and had a strange name, but they’re junk.


----------



## el-bo

waynes world said:


> Spoiler: Off topic, but..
> 
> 
> 
> _Everyone should have at least one pair of the Koss KSC75's._


For pure home enjoyment, I want them. For outside stuff, hmmm...not so much  

Will get 'em one day, though


----------



## el-bo

Ronion said:


> Those look like they’ll do the trick.  Thanks for the suggestion @samandhi
> 
> The older iPads are mostly 1v.  Likely stays true with the new ones that still have a jack.  Most IEMs and Buds with do just fine with it.


Thanks! I have the 9th Gen i.e basic model.


----------



## MelodyMood

MelodyMood said:


> Anyone has NiceHCK EB2S? How is the sound quality? Also, Does it has open back and leak sound means if I am listening something, someone can else also hear that clearly? And overall good clear sound with lots of details but not harsh? Decent bass?


Does NicehHCK EB2S leak sound from back of the earbuds or it is just design and no real hole on the back of the earphone which leaks sound? Also, how is the sound quality?


----------



## buggy

Xinlisupreme said:


> I like ST20 but I’d prefer something brighter, maybe I can try RW1000 bass boosted for 75€


Yincrow RW-1000 high impedence (80 ohm) edition is quite good as well. Although is 80 ohm, but it actually quite easy to drive, no problem with dac dongle or direct from mobile phone or PC.


----------



## captione

MelodyMood said:


> Does NicehHCK EB2S leak sound from back of the earbuds or it is just design and no real hole on the back of the earphone which leaks sound? Also, how is the sound quality?


Earbuds will inherently leak sound just from the way how it sits from the ears, and factors such as volume level can contribute to it.


----------



## Kento6395

I will buy  pk1 red film Driver ( DIY ) ,Can I order the link please?


----------



## jogawag

Kento6395 said:


> I will buy  pk1 red film Driver ( DIY ) ,Can I order the link please?


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2034991204.html


----------



## ValSuki

jogawag said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2034991204.html


I hope thats real because there are plenty of bad PK drivers that aren't from the white text batch!


----------



## jogawag

ValSuki said:


> I hope thats real because there are plenty of bad PK drivers that aren't from the white text batch!


I hope that you can tell me a more reliable url.


----------



## Sam L

How does the shozy sg hold up against recent buds?


----------



## Sam L

still a favorite...


----------



## Sam L

damn. wanted to buy some backups.


----------



## Ronion

@samandhi , you hooks work perfectly on the SMABAT ST20.  Now they are comfortable for long listening sessions.  No real rubbing points to mention.  I do lose a touch of deep bass, but it’s worth it.  I may be able to get that back after further adjustment.


----------



## Kento6395

jogawag said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2034991204.html


Thanks you so much,bro


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> @samandhi , you hooks work perfectly on the SMABAT ST20.  Now they are comfortable for long listening sessions.  No real rubbing points to mention.  I do lose a touch of deep bass, but it’s worth it.  I may be able to get that back after further adjustment.


Fantastic! Glad they worked for you as well as they do for me. I don't know if you noticed, but the ear-hook part is semi-adjustable, and will stay how you adjust them (for the most part)?!


----------



## rprodrigues

Sam L said:


> damn. wanted to buy some backups.



https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=604950973907


----------



## Kento6395

Earbuds Another one that I love very much that I have collected. Yuin Pk2 first version


----------



## Sam L

samandhi said:


> Are these the ones you ordered? If so, it would be good to know if they have changed the product, as they fit just fine on the Maria II (unless the ST20 has a much bigger neck, I would assume they should also fit those).
> 
> Glad you got them squared away to your liking! Enjoy the music friend!
> 
> On another note, I contacted Moodrop about the imbalance on my Chaconne and they told me to contact the seller I bought them from for after-sales service. Normally I wouldn't have a problem with that, but since they are located in China, I am going to have to pay a tidy sum to have them shipped, I would assume (as opposed to shipping them to the US branch of Moondrop). While I DO want them fixed, I really don't want to pay more for a situation that isn't/wasn't my responsibility to begin with (I guess I'm kinda' bull-headed in that way ). I suppose I have until July (1 year warranty) to make the decision. Plus, I hate to be without them for so long (will probably be more than 2 months gone all said and done).


ouch... 2 months is a long time to be without such a nice bud. If I had to do without mine for that long, I'd seriously go crazy. Good thing is there are plenty of buds to keep us busy?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Well guys, how many of you want the true upgrade to the Yincrow X6? 

(And no, its not the PEQed LBBS.)


----------



## samandhi

Sam L said:


> ouch... 2 months is a long time to be without such a nice bud. If I had to do without mine for that long, I'd seriously go crazy. Good thing is there are plenty of buds to keep us busy?


IKR? It IS a good thing that I have plenty of others that can at least distract me until I would get them back. 

Problem is that I emailed them (through their Amazon store) at the beginning of this week about the issue, and I have yet to hear back from them. I will give it a few more days, and then I will have to email Moondrop again, and tell them that the store won't help me. I'll keep y'all posted about the ongoing happenings.


----------



## samandhi

RikudouGoku said:


> Well guys, how many of you want the true upgrade to the Yincrow X6?
> 
> (And no, its not the PEQed LBBS.)


Though I have not heard the X6, you had me at "upgrade"... LOL


----------



## XP_98

Yincrow X6 are fine especially for the price, so I wonder what would be a "true upgrade"


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Well guys, how many of you want the true upgrade to the Yincrow X6?
> 
> (And no, its not the PEQed LBBS.)


wow, what a teaser! please just let it out quickly?


----------



## mt877

RikudouGoku said:


> Well guys, how many of you want the true upgrade to the Yincrow X6?
> 
> (And no, its not the PEQed LBBS.)


Here's my WAG... Yincrow RW9.


----------



## rprodrigues

mt877 said:


> Here's my WAG... Yincrow RW9.


Nah. That's a black vido with a braided cable...


----------



## waynes world

RikudouGoku said:


> Well guys, how many of you want the true upgrade to the Yincrow X6?
> 
> (And no, its not the PEQed LBBS.)



Newbsound 32pro! 

Ha! I'm sure you have something else up your sleeve tease, but I just wanted to say that I am still very much enjoying the 32pro's - they're really great


----------



## chavez

mt877 said:


> Here's my WAG... Yincrow RW9.


Maybe K's K64  .


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> wow, what a teaser! please just let it out quickly?


My own DIY model.


----------



## waynes world

RikudouGoku said:


> My own DIY model.



Alrighty then. Sign us all up!


----------



## RikudouGoku

waynes world said:


> Alrighty then. Sign us all up!


Still in my R/D phase when it comes to other lineups/drivers, but at least I have one model I am putting my name on atm. 

Still looking for that Moondrop Chaconne alternative/upgrade and another one with more balanced/w-shaped tonality (at least that is the plan atm).

But I do want to ask, how many of you guys would be interested in my buds? So I have an idea on how many drivers I need to order at least...
(particularly the Yincrow X6 upgrade.)


----------



## mt877 (Mar 4, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> Still in my R/D phase when it comes to other lineups/drivers, but at least I have one model I am putting my name on atm.
> 
> Still looking for that Moondrop Chaconne alternative/upgrade and another one with more balanced/w-shaped tonality (at least that is the plan atm).
> 
> ...


Wow, first in line.... behind waynes world that is....  In


----------



## n00b

RikudouGoku said:


> Still in my R/D phase when it comes to other lineups/drivers, but at least I have one model I am putting my name on atm.
> 
> Still looking for that Moondrop Chaconne alternative/upgrade and another one with more balanced/w-shaped tonality (at least that is the plan atm).
> 
> ...


yo not a good look to tease some upgrade in the branded earbuds thread then tell everyone it’s your own potential product you’re selling. is that even allowed here?

to get back on topic, i would take the k64 over the x6 at about the same price point too. x6 is actually one of my least used buds


----------



## RikudouGoku

n00b said:


> yo not a good look to tease some upgrade in the branded earbuds thread then tell everyone it’s your own potential product you’re selling. is that even allowed here?
> 
> to get back on topic, i would take the k64 over the x6 at about the same price point too. x6 is actually one of my least used buds


Shouldnt be a problem if they arent in the same price range.

And I aint saying more about the sound than that either.


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Still in my R/D phase when it comes to other lineups/drivers, but at least I have one model I am putting my name on atm.
> 
> Still looking for that Moondrop Chaconne alternative/upgrade and another one with more balanced/w-shaped tonality (at least that is the plan atm).
> 
> ...


If the end result a x6-ish tuned earbud, put me down for 2 or 3


----------



## samandhi

@Sam L Dang! You either need to move to a better neighborhood or pay more attention to your IEMs  (just noticed your stolen items in your sig)... Sorry to see that!


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Fantastic! Glad they worked for you as well as they do for me. I don't know if you noticed, but the ear-hook part is semi-adjustable, and will stay how you adjust them (for the most part)?!


I did.  You know these are radically more comfortable that shark fins.   I can wear them for hours without an issue.


----------



## jeejack

RikudouGoku said:


> My own DIY model.


What driver are you talking about?


----------



## Kento6395

Sennheiser Omx 90 

It's the earbuds that sell almost every earbud I've used, in my opinion it's a miniaturized hd800.


----------



## furyossa (Mar 5, 2022)

jeejack said:


> What driver are you talking about?


You know the drill, it's "top secret" bro.
Probably you never heard about it


----------



## Ronion

RikudouGoku said:


> My own DIY model.


I’ve got to be honest with you: nearly every bud I’ve built has actually even an improvement over an X6 and I’ve built a couple dozen with over a dozen drivers that have had multiple tunings each before reaching anything final.  Changes verified with quality, realistic measurements all along the way.  I think you’ll find as you do more of this that the bar of an X6 upgrade is pretty easy to achieve.  I was enamored with my first couple sets as well, but you’ll see, you can get better over time.


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> You know the drill, it "top secret" bro.
> Probably you never heard about it


I understand ! They will be for sale


----------



## furyossa

Ronion said:


> I’ve got to be honest with you: nearly every bud I’ve built has actually even an improvement over an X6 and I’ve built a couple dozen with over a dozen drivers that have had multiple tunings each before reaching anything final.  Changes verified with quality, realistic measurements all along the way.  I think you’ll find as you do more of this that the bar of an X6 upgrade is pretty easy to achieve.  I was enamored with my first couple sets as well, but you’ll see, you can get better over time.


I don't know why are you still talking about X6 "true upgrade". It's pointless 
People who are in DIY hobby for a long time know that there are a lot of drivers which sound excellent (stock or retuned) which are not only the better but cheaper than X6.
 I don't say it's bad, but again, why do you think that X6 have such value to be the reference?


----------



## waynes world

furyossa said:


> I don't know why are you still talking about X6 "true upgrade". It's pointless
> People who are in DIY hobby for a long time know that there are a lot of drivers which sound excellent (stock or retuned) which are not only the better but cheaper than X6.
> I don't say it's bad, but again, why do you think that X6 have such value to be the reference?



@RikudouGoku started it lol!



RikudouGoku said:


> Well guys, how many of you want the true upgrade to the Yincrow X6?
> 
> (And no, its not the PEQed LBBS.)


----------



## Ronion (Mar 4, 2022)

furyossa said:


> I don't know why are you still talking about X6 "true upgrade". It's pointless
> People who are in DIY hobby for a long time know that there are a lot of drivers which sound excellent (stock or retuned) which are not only the better but cheaper than X6.
> I don't say it's bad, but again, why do you think that X6 have such value to be the reference?


Absolutely agree @furyossa!  I was just responding to @RikudouGoku.  The value the X6 (same as Vido) has is that many people own them and they make a good reference point: like the LBBs.  I wouldn’t consider any of these very highly, though not bad for the money as far as prebuilts go.  They are the gateway drug that gets people excited about earbuds because they are cheap and popular, but they are easily outdone in the DIY world.  I’d say they are handily beaten by other low cost prebuilt buds as well.  Nonetheless, they are a common reference point.  They are like the HD650 of the buds world, but not as good.


----------



## samandhi

waynes world said:


> @RikudouGoku started it lol!


Tattle Tail!


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Absolutely agree @furyossa!  I was just responding to @RikudouGoku.  The value the X6 (same as Vido) has is that many people own them and they make a good reference point: like the LBBs.  I wouldn’t consider any of these very highly, though not bad for the money as far as prebuilts go.  They are the gateway drug that gets people excited about earbuds because they are cheap and popular, but they are easily outdone in the DIY world.  I’d say they are handily beaten by other low cost prebuilt buds as well.  Nonetheless, they are a common reference point.  They are like the HD650 of the buds world, but not as good.


What got me excited (again) for earbuds was seeing an old set of Senn's on the DX300 thread and pulling out my OG Apple earbuds (the ones that came with the iPod Photo) and listening to them.


----------



## Ronion

I want a set of OG Senns, but pricing is Bob Marley, Snoop Dogg, and Willy Nelson all rolled into one high.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> I want a set of OG Senns, but pricing is Bob Marley, Snoop Dogg, and Willy Nelson all rolled into one high.


OK! I literally almost snotted my pop out of my nose because I was taking a drink when I read this... Good one!


----------



## samandhi

RikudouGoku said:


> Shouldnt be a problem if they arent in the same price range.
> 
> And I aint saying more about the sound than that either.


Why not? Don't wannna' be a "Daisy Downer" here but, I can't say if I am interested unless I know what they are going to cost, or sound like.


----------



## FranQL

The businesses, how attractive they are, the top secret nasa drivers, the improved signatures, having a reputation, and making money. Okay, I won't criticize anything here. Then wait for a hype... and we already have it! If there was no business there would be no hobby. It is necessary.

an update on the first model per month, how to call it retune, plus, pro, V2, whatever you want...

But if to say, that in a listening of five minutes or five days one cannot proclaim "eureka", the opinion of other people is also useful. It's not all about having 400 graphics... useless, and even less here, in the buds.

Lastly, a Vido or X6 upgrade is a poor claim, at least after hearing other things. It is normal if the recommendation comes from the users, not from the seller himself.

And this is my opinion, maybe I'm your weird type...


----------



## Sam L

samandhi said:


> @Sam L Dang! You either need to move to a better neighborhood or pay more attention to your IEMs  (just noticed your stolen items in your sig)... Sorry to see that!


home is safe, thankfully. issue was I had more iems and earbuds with me than normal in my backpack, which was stolen (in front of a louis vuitton store!) along with my laptop.


----------



## jeejack

Vido is the best in its price category ($ 2) 🙃. X6 is very expensive considering that it is the same driver as Vido earbud. Only the cable differs but does not justify the price difference


----------



## Rary

Vido/X6 are a 6/10 at best in the DIY world and i'm not saying it lightly since i really love their natural and engaging sound. 

For a big SQ upgrade that keeps more or less the same sound signature we had the Faaeal Rosemary for years


----------



## RikudouGoku

jeejack said:


> What driver are you talking about?


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002799457689.html


furyossa said:


> You know the drill, it's "top secret" bro.
> Probably you never heard about it


no, I will list the drivers for all the buds I make.




Ronion said:


> I’ve got to be honest with you: nearly every bud I’ve built has actually even an improvement over an X6 and I’ve built a couple dozen with over a dozen drivers that have had multiple tunings each before reaching anything final.  Changes verified with quality, realistic measurements all along the way.  I think you’ll find as you do more of this that the bar of an X6 upgrade is pretty easy to achieve.  I was enamored with my first couple sets as well, but you’ll see, you can get better over time.


its not hard to beat the X6 in technicalities, but not if you want to keep nearly the same tonality.


samandhi said:


> Why not? Don't wannna' be a "Daisy Downer" here but, I can't say if I am interested unless I know what they are going to cost, or sound like.


I wont talk about the sound much because there of course I will be heavily biased. 

Price will be around 50 euro, not set in stone yet but around that price.


----------



## Ronion

RikudouGoku said:


> its not hard to beat the X6 in technicalities, but not if you want to keep nearly the same tonality.


Once you learn exactly how to manipulate the tuning, it’s still easy.


----------



## Sam L

*Hey everyone, how could you let this happen to me?* I know we might not know each other that well, but come on, many of you have been in this thread with me -- interacting during the pandemic, finding solace with our hobby. You might recall my super active posting during 2020, which led to me achieving "supremus status" pretty quickly. We even did a virtual "meet up" and talked for hours about all things earbuds and measurements. 



Spoiler: I blame all of you...



for not telling me to get a Koss ksc75 earlier. This thing is amazing. I got the massdrop version, even though I'm not sure what the difference is between the drop version and the stock one. Every earbud fan should have a ksc75.


----------



## waynes world

Sam L said:


> *Hey everyone, how could you let this happen to me?* I know we might not know each other that well, but come on, many of you have been in this thread with me -- interacting during the pandemic, finding solace with our hobby. You might recall my super active posting during 2020, which led to me achieving "supremus status" pretty quickly. We even did a virtual "meet up" and talked for hours about all things earbuds and measurements.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ha ha ha ha! Plenty of mods and pads and headbands to try with the ksc75's:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kos...ant-killer-in-all-the-hidden-gem-hype.638757/

I like the ksc75 drivers on parts express headband (although the newer kph40 headband with them would be great). Soundwise I prefer the portapro/sportapro drivers on the parts express headband for a bit more bass.

I also love the newer kph30i's, and I really want to get the kph40's (they look great imo, and get lots of hype).

Anyway, welcome to the Koss rabbit hole!


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> for not telling me to get a Koss ksc75 earlier. This thing is amazing. I got the massdrop version, even though I'm not sure what the difference is between the drop version and the stock one. Every earbud fan should have a ksc75.


Zero differences from a sound perspective. I believe the drop version has a mic though...


----------



## furyossa

waynes world said:


> Ha ha ha ha! Plenty of mods and pads and headbands to try with the ksc75's:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kos...ant-killer-in-all-the-hidden-gem-hype.638757/
> 
> I like the ksc75 drivers on parts express headband (although the newer kph40 headband with them would be great). Soundwise I prefer the portapro/sportapro drivers on the parts express headband for a bit more bass.
> ...


Yup. I really like KPH30i. 
Lightweight and simplistic design makes them one of the most comfortable on-ear headphones. Also, even if they're not that easy to open, with a little patience they can be modified really well where you can improve comfort and the sound .... more spacious - mmcx mod with Grado pads. 
What about Koss buds? Any promising model?


----------



## Chessnaudio

RikudouGoku said:


> Still in my R/D phase when it comes to other lineups/drivers, but at least I have one model I am putting my name on atm.
> 
> Still looking for that Moondrop Chaconne alternative/upgrade and another one with more balanced/w-shaped tonality (at least that is the plan atm).
> 
> ...


Totally in! Very excited for them.


----------



## DBaldock9 (Mar 6, 2022)

I've managed to get a somewhat comfortable, secure-ish, & good sounding fit in my ears, for the Smabat ST-20 earbuds.

Started by using a nice sharp ceramic craft knife, and cutting the fins off of a set of earbud fins - to end up with a set of snug-fitting rings for the ST-20.  Then I put two pairs of Hiegi Donut Foams over the rings.

*EDIT:  I'm still using the (L) & (R) earbuds swapped, and with the cables over-the-ears.*


----------



## Ronion (Mar 5, 2022)

I almost did the same thing @DBaldock9 , but I tried @samandhi ’s ear hook idea and I’m sold on it.  I’m actually wearing them cable down now with perfect comfort.  Not reverse bud cable down though.  That definitely requires a different EQ profile.  Well actually an EQ isn “required“ like that.  I’d still polish it up a bit and add some air.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Why not? Don't wannna' be a "Daisy Downer" here but, I can't say if I am interested unless I know what they are going to cost, or sound like.


Shouldn’t that be a “Debby Downer”?  Oh wait, I think that was the sequel to the famous “Debbie” movie from the 70s.  down chicka brown cow, or is it bow chicka wow wow?


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Shouldn’t that be a “Debby Downer”?  Oh wait, I think that was the sequel to the famous “Debbie” movie from the 70s.  down chicka brown cow, or is it bow chicka wow wow?


Lol! Yeah prolly should have been.

I think it depends on the person asked, and how much weed mood altering substances have been partaken of at that time. 

But I thought it was "brown chicken, brown cow"?! And I thought that was every adult movie from the 70s?!


----------



## mt877

Get your minds out of the gutter... Here's some real 'pron'...


----------



## Sam L

mt877 said:


> Get your minds out of the gutter... Here's some real 'pron'...


If you have wavelet installed...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Vo30sU-pcs9YWskwSihRQVBQmpt61J1u/view?usp=drivesdk


----------



## samandhi

Sam L said:


> If you have wavelet installed...
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Vo30sU-pcs9YWskwSihRQVBQmpt61J1u/view?usp=drivesdk


Or if you use Neutron, you can just do a search for those buds in the app and automatically apply the "auto EQ ". Wait, can't you also search for those buds in Wavelet and import the settings that way too? Just curious, because I can't install wavelet on my DX300.


----------



## mt877 (Mar 6, 2022)

Sam L said:


> If you have wavelet installed...
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Vo30sU-pcs9YWskwSihRQVBQmpt61J1u/view?usp=drivesdk


Hey Sam, thanks! Is that a custom EQ or built-in AutoEQ Harman correction EQ? I like messing around with AutoEQ. I'm thinking it's your own custom EQ because AutoEQ is mainly IEMs and headphones, not buds. Well, I didn't look for EM5s in AutoEQ.

Edit: OK, found your thread Earbud target curve tests, nice work you did there. 👍


----------



## feverfive

Are the *Qian39* considered to be PK-style shells?  I don't personally find the Q39 all that compelling from a sound POV, but dang, they fit me so nicely.  I need to at least try to find higher end buds (mostly interested in top-notch build quality, tbh) that would fit me like the Q39.

My use case for earbuds:  50% Youtube video or Netflix; 45% video conference calls; 5% music.  So, I am an oddball as music listening is the least of my needs for earbuds, **though that may change in the near term if I can't get my ear issues sorted (preventing IEM use**


----------



## samandhi

samandhi said:


> Or if you use Neutron, you can just do a search for those buds in the app and automatically apply the "auto EQ ". Wait, can't you also search for those buds in Wavelet and import the settings that way too? Just curious, because I can't install wavelet on my DX300.





mt877 said:


> Hey Sam, thanks! Is that a custom EQ or built-in AutoEQ Harman correction EQ? I like messing around with AutoEQ. I'm thinking it's your own custom EQ because AutoEQ is mainly IEMs and headphones, not buds. Well, I didn't look for EM5s in AutoEQ.
> 
> Edit: OK, found your thread Earbud target curve tests, nice work you did there. 👍


Ah IC. I digress.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

feverfive said:


> Are the *Qian39* considered to be PK-style shells?  I don't personally find the Q39 all that compelling from a sound POV, but dang, they fit me so nicely.  I need to at least try to find higher end buds (mostly interested in top-notch build quality, tbh) that would fit me like the Q39.
> 
> My use case for earbuds:  50% Youtube video or Netflix; 45% video conference calls; 5% music.  So, I am an oddball as music listening is the least of my needs for earbuds, **though that may change in the near term if I can't get my ear issues sorted (preventing IEM use**


No, although mistaken as being a MX500 or even PK styled shell they are considered a *Type IV Other Variant*. Similar to the _Qian39 _are the_ VE Zen LL/Lite, VE Monk Lite, and Edifier H180._


----------



## RikudouGoku

feverfive said:


> Are the *Qian39* considered to be PK-style shells?  I don't personally find the Q39 all that compelling from a sound POV, but dang, they fit me so nicely.  I need to at least try to find higher end buds (mostly interested in top-notch build quality, tbh) that would fit me like the Q39.
> 
> My use case for earbuds:  50% Youtube video or Netflix; 45% video conference calls; 5% music.  So, I am an oddball as music listening is the least of my needs for earbuds, **though that may change in the near term if I can't get my ear issues sorted (preventing IEM use**


@ValSuki has a 3d printed shell that fits like the qian39, consider getting a DIY bud from him.


----------



## ValSuki

More designs :>

Just seeing how capable my printer is, and what can be used for my V2's. Purely a prototype but its been very enjoyable listening to them. Also seeing how detailed the printer can go.


----------



## WillTirta (Mar 6, 2022)

Hello guys, i need some recommendation here.
its been a long time since i am reading post here. 

Which good earbud that is worth to buy for now?(2019-2022 thing is okay) since i never bought any earbud since 2018.

For preference, i Like great separation and detail with good soundstage wide and depth, i like my Old Mojito, but i found it to peaky in high section, and i love MX985 too.

Any suggestion? I ve been eyeing Yincrow RW2000, DQSM PT21, is it a step up from mojito?


----------



## Ronion

I’d buy some cheapie Tingo TG38 or an HE150.  They have what you are looking for and won’t break the bank.  No wonky fit either.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 7, 2022)

WillTirta said:


> Hello guys, i need some recommendation here.
> its been a long time since i am reading post here.
> 
> Which good earbud that is worth to buy for now?(2019-2022 thing is okay) since i never bought any earbud since 2018.
> ...


A few others to consider would be the Rose Technics Martini, MoonDrop Chaconne 夏空, and the reissued Shozy 大黑 Big Black (BK) Stardust. But without knowing your budget and few other key preferences it will be hard for us to provide good recommendations.

*'THE CHECKLIST' FOR EARBUD RECOMMENDATION REQUESTS*
For those looking for a flathead-earbud recommendation from the Earbuds Round-Up thread gang, the following data is extremely helpful:

*source* _(Smartphone, DAC, AMP, DAP, PC, Streamer, etc.)_
*preferred connection* _(termination type e.g. 3.5TRS, 4.4TRRS, 2.5TRRS; single-ended vs balanced)_
*listening level & session length* _(volume level and for how long?)_
*listening environment* _(mobile, office, home desktop, home listening room, etc.)_
*preferred sound signature* _(bright, dark, warm, aggressive, bassy, neutral, balanced, L/U/V/W-shaped)_
*preferred music genre *_(rock/pop, metal, classical, OST, hip-hop, R&B, EDM, podcasts, audiobooks, etc.)_
*preferred shell and cushion type* _(please see *here* and __*here*__)_
_*preferred brand*_ _(only applicable if you are asking for a model recommendation within a single brand)_
*budget* _(what are you willing/looking to spend? e.g. price range)_
*special need and/or consideration* _(e.g. mic/no mic?; fixed cable or mmcx?)_


----------



## mafyou12 (Mar 7, 2022)

Have any smaller-eared people tried the Linkbuds? Really curious about them but the only couple of sellers I could see (I'm in Canada) don't take returns on such things.

The only buds I can wear for any amount of time are smaller ones like the Monk Lite, Qian39 or Smabat M1 Pro (MX500-type shells and the Apple side-ported type ones are a no go). I also can't do on-ear headphones which is probably also a bad indication for how the Linkbuds fit and hold. (I can't do Koss Portapros but can use KSC75 all day).

Cheers


----------



## mafyou12

whoops double


----------



## vygas

mafyou12 said:


> Have any smaller-eared people tried the Linkbuds? Really curious about them but the only couple of sellers I could see (I'm in Canada) don't take returns on such things.
> 
> The only buds I can wear for any amount of time are smaller ones like the Monk Lite, Qian39 or Smabat M1 Pro (MX500-type shells and the Apple side-ported type ones are a no go). I also can't do on-ear headphones which is probably also a bad indication for how the Linkbuds fit and hold. (I can't do Koss Portapros but can use KSC75 all day).
> 
> Cheers


I've heard that the drivers are actually smaller than something like a Monk Lite or PK shell, though I haven't seen any measurements of what the actual diameter of the actual donut faceplate is.


----------



## mafyou12

Thanks.

Hmm not looking good... a small-eared review here:



> Removing the LinkBuds after wearing them makes me physically wince. My ears ache as much as my heart – but I can’t really blame Sony for the fact that my uniquely small ears can’t handle the smallest earbuds it’s ever made.



might be a more unique situation though.


----------



## mt877

vygas said:


> I've heard that the drivers are actually smaller than something like a Monk Lite or PK shell, though I haven't seen any measurements of what the actual diameter of the actual donut faceplate is.









mafyou12 said:


> Hmm not looking good... a small-eared review here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think if you're used to wearing flat head earbuds, then your ears are conditioned to having something touching that part of your ear, but YMMV.


----------



## mafyou12

Good point. Thanks. Shouldn't really be different from wearing the Monk Lite.

Also I realized I would be able to return at amazon.ca so i might as well give it a go.


----------



## Scuba Devils

Reducing my collection, I'm very happy with two sets of buds which I plan to hold on to - Chaconne and 32pro. Everything else being cleared, first to go is a Blur bundle!  

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/blur-bud-bundle.21592/


----------



## samandhi

mafyou12 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Hmm not looking good... a small-eared review here:
> 
> ...


I have small to medium ears, and they used to make my ears sore also (though I wear earbuds all the time). Not the kind of sore that you feel until you go to move them or take them out. The remedy I came up with (for now) works great, and there is no more soreness for me at all with these:


----------



## Carrow

continuing to clear out my collection ahead of moving house next month, now with price drops


----------



## samandhi

Carrow said:


> continuing to clear out my collection ahead of moving house next month, now with price drops


What, are you moving to a planet that doesn't have music?


----------



## Carrow

samandhi said:


> What, are you moving to a planet that doesn't have music?


heh, I'm giving IEMs another shot as well


----------



## samandhi

Carrow said:


> heh, I'm giving IEMs another shot as well


@WoodyLuvr has disavowed you then...


----------



## WoodyLuvr

samandhi said:


> @WoodyLuvr has disavowed you then...


*@Carrow* who?


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> I have small to medium ears, and they used to make my ears sore also (though I wear earbuds all the time). Not the kind of sore that you feel until you go to move them or take them out. The remedy I came up with (for now) works great, and there is no more soreness for me at all with these:


How has that affected the sound for you?


----------



## Podster

Remembering OP had dedicated this thread to Tom I happen to have brought to work today my small but priceless collection of buds he sent me a couple years back, behold the Hungry Panda Dream, Chestnuts and Rasta cabled Ericsson Bass Reflex'ers in their dedicated Nanuk case. Tom had a great ear and deft hand might I say. I enjoyed all three, really love wearing them while reading in quite environments


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> How has that affected the sound for you?


They might make them a bit warmer, but it is hard to say for sure because they were already a bit warm to my tastes in stock sound. I have used the EQ app on these from day one (Clear Bass up to +4, and the two right most sliders up 3/4 of the way). The great thing about the EQ (like a lot of TWS that have a dedicated app) is that whatever EQ you give it, is stored in memory and even if you use them on a different device without the app installed at all, it will still have this EQ. I don't really think of it as EQ, more like re-tuning them to your tastes (or EQing the onboard DAC directly). 

I'm actually STILL in shock that something with only SBC, and AAC can sound so good (comparatively). I would have never pulled the trigger if they didn't have the features I was looking for (permanent hear-through mode). In hindsight, I would have missed out on some truly good sound for TWS IMHO.


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> They might make them a bit warmer, but it is hard to say for sure because they were already a bit warm to my tastes in stock sound. I have used the EQ app on these from day one (Clear Bass up to +4, and the two right most sliders up 3/4 of the way). The great thing about the EQ (like a lot of TWS that have a dedicated app) is that whatever EQ you give it, is stored in memory and even if you use them on a different device without the app installed at all, it will still have this EQ. I don't really think of it as EQ, more like re-tuning them to your tastes (or EQing the onboard DAC directly).
> 
> I'm actually STILL in shock that something with only SBC, and AAC can sound so good (comparatively). I would have never pulled the trigger if they didn't have the features I was looking for (permanent hear-through mode). In hindsight, I would have missed out on some truly good sound for TWS IMHO.


Fortunately for me fit has been good with no pain. I mean I feel they are in my ears with a little pressure where they come to rest, but nothing else. I played around with the EQ, but keep going back to EQ Off. The stock sound is working for me.


----------



## Xinlisupreme

i listed for sale all my buds, my ears shape aren't for buds, definitely


----------



## Ronion (Mar 9, 2022)

Xinlisupreme said:


> i listed for sale all my buds, my ears shape aren't for buds, definitely


Do you have links?  I looked, but didn’t see anything.

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/fs-buds-em5-st20-lbbs.21557/


----------



## KRUSH (Mar 9, 2022)

Hello Head-Fi community!

I'm ecstatic to have stumbled upon this audiophile forum and specific post uncovering and reviewing classic earbuds. Like many of you, I prefer this style for a variety of reasons and as an audio layman, need help finding the most appropriate earbuds for my broad usage. I need neutral, all-purpose earbuds as I will be using them for predominately gaming while streaming on Twitch, but also listening to plenty of varied music and media. I found this guideline a few posts back in which I'll answer thoroughly for efficiency.

 source (Smartphone, DAC, AMP, DAP, PC, Streamer, etc.)
    - *Ideally, I'd like to plug the earbuds directly into the auxiliary port of my motherboard. (Mobo Model - MSI MAG z690 Tomahawk Wifi DDR5) Reason being is to keep minimal devices and clutter on my desk. Though, if a small external device is needed to power earbuds more appropriate for my needs, I would consider it.*

preferred connection (termination type e.g. 3.5TRS, 4.4TRRS, 2.5TRRS; single-ended vs balanced)
    - *Motherboard auxiliary input would be 3.5mm and TRS (?). I'm unsure what single-ended vs balanced refers to.*

listening level & session length (volume level and for how long?)
    - *Volume would always be at a moderate and comfortable level. Not low or loud. The session length will vary widely but need something capable of routine 6-10+ hours of use without inducing fatigue.*

listening environment (mobile, office, home desktop, home listening room, etc.)
    - *Environment will be only myself in my living room at my desk with little-to-no background noise. *

preferred sound signature (bright, dark, warm, aggressive, bassy, neutral, balanced, L/U/V/W-shaped)
    - **Neutral, balanced and perhaps warm all sound like the most desirable sound signature. *This is very important as my ears can not handle piercing sounds; so no heavy highs or mids. Nor do I enjoy aggressive bass.*

    - *For reference, I recently purchased a Sennheiser HD560S due to it's acclaimed balanced sound and to retest my tolerance of headphone clamping. With my minimal use of it so far, the sound is fairly balanced and pleasing to my untrained ear. Perhaps a pair of earbuds with a similar signature to the HD560S. (And surprisingly, the headphones are the most comfortable I've ever tried, though I still prefer not to wear any.)*

preferred music genre (rock/pop, metal, classical, OST, hip-hop, R&B, EDM, podcasts, audiobooks, etc.)
    - *If one exists, I'd like for the earbuds to sound neutral / balanced with everything. The earbuds will always be used for variety gaming. While listening to music, the genres are normally electronic/dance (and it's many sub-genres), disco, funk with some occasional metal, rock and pop. (If the earbuds have a neutral / balanced sound signature, would they not accommodate for any music genre and media?) *

preferred shell and cushion type (please see here and here)
    -***This point is also very important. From my limited experience and memory, the cushion type will matter more than the shell for me. The most fitting pair of earbuds I've ever tried are my Sennhesier iE2 which have a silicon cushion with a medium-large hook. (The Sennhesier cushion also goes into the ear canal a bit, though not like a true in-ear. That portion would not be necessary, only the hook.) Looking through the above links, I've probably tried all the shells and cushion types at one point or another and to varying degrees. However, I can't remember any ever fitting my ear well or standing out, except for a silicon cushion with a hook. (The foam and silicon hook combination looks intriguing!)*

preferred brand (only applicable if you are asking for a model recommendation within a single brand)
    - *No preferred brand. From my digging so far, Venture Electronics are consistently praised. A few of their models appear to have the option of being fitted with a silicon cushion with a hook.*

budget (what are you willing/looking to spend? e.g. price range)
    - *Preferably no more than $200. *

special need and/or consideration (e.g. mic/no mic?; fixed cable or mmcx?)
    - *No special needs.*

Classical earbuds options are dwindling and not easy to come by. So I truly appreciate anyone who takes the time to read this and help me out. Thank you!


----------



## mochill

Smabat st20 pro


----------



## mt877 (Mar 9, 2022)

KRUSH said:


> Hello Head-Fi community!
> 
> I'm ecstatic to have stumbled upon this audiophile forum and specific post uncovering and reviewing classic earbuds. Like many of you, I prefer this style for a variety of reasons and as an audio layman, need help finding the most appropriate earbuds for my broad usage. I need neutral, all-purpose earbuds as I will be using them for predominately gaming while streaming on Twitch, but also listening to plenty of varied music and media. I found this guideline a few posts back in which I'll answer thoroughly for efficiency.
> 
> ...


Here's a suggestion:
K's Temperament 小黑铃 Bell-LBBs
@RikudouGoku's Review: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ks-temperament-小黑铃-bell-lbbs.25331/reviews#review-26435

Also read this from @WoodyLuvr: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16830489 , there's a nice visual showing these buds to be very neutral and mid-centric sounding.

RikudouGoku has ranked these earbuds very high. I have a set myself and they are indeed very good earbuds. They can easily be purchased on Amazon (use Amazon's return policy if you don't like them) or maybe a little cheaper from overseas sellers. The sound is not bass heavy, and is pretty close to neutral. They are small and light and can be worn for a long time without fatigue.

One thing you mentioned was plugging into AUX in. I believe you probably mean headphone out, which is the standard 3.5mm stereo headphone out.

Hopefully others will give good suggestions as well.


----------



## samandhi

KRUSH said:


> Hello Head-Fi community!
> 
> I'm ecstatic to have stumbled upon this audiophile forum and specific post uncovering and reviewing classic earbuds. Like many of you, I prefer this style for a variety of reasons and as an audio layman, need help finding the most appropriate earbuds for my broad usage. I need neutral, all-purpose earbuds as I will be using them for predominately gaming while streaming on Twitch, but also listening to plenty of varied music and media. I found this guideline a few posts back in which I'll answer thoroughly for efficiency.
> 
> ...


Very well written and thorough also! 

I can't speak to the LBBS mentioned above my post (probably need to try them out at some point), but I will throw in my suggestion as the Yincrow RW2000 (also rated very highly by others). They are so well balanced; they are fantastic all-rounders, good for many and multiple genres IMO. These fluxuate often in price. I bought mine for $129 a while back, but it has gone up as much as $169, and back down again over time. 

Keep in mind, all of my suggestions are from my own experience of what brands I own, and most of my others have that high pina gain boost that you said you can't tolerate (common for today's classic earbuds). I am also sensitive to that area being boosted, though a few of mine have "calmed down" over time and use. 

For example, the Smabat M2s Pro. When I first got them, they were WAY shouty to my ears. Now, even after not listening to them for a long period of time, they are not near as bad (though still a bit), and I pick them up quite often as a daily "beater".  The other great thing about these (something you might also consider) is that with these, you can easily change out the driver in them (and the filters for a more subtle change), and get a fairly significant change in sound signature.

If you are willing to EQ some, then the Moondrop Chaconne are (IMHO) the best sounding earbuds (and even IEMs) I have ever come across thus far. They ARE above what you mentioned as your top dollar (by about $100) but would get you TOTL/flagship/summit-Fi/god-tier. Most here think of them as niche only buds, but with that added low end EQ, I find them to be nicely balanced (the mid and treble are the absolute best tuning I have heard from any portable speaker; IEM/TWS/earbud/headphone), and can be fantastic all-rounders. These are also the easiest to use a set of overear hooks, of the ones that been mentioned thus far. 

All of these can be driven straight from your PC, and don't really need any "amping" IMO. Also IMO, all of these don't really make you pay (with horrible sound) for having poor recordings, but when you have high quality recordings, you  (or rather your ears) WILL be rewarded!

I hope you find some real gems, and welcome to the "earbuds rabbit hole"!


----------



## Xinlisupreme

Ronion said:


> Do you have links?  I looked, but didn’t see anything.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/fs-buds-em5-st20-lbbs.21557/


Yes It’s right


----------



## baskingshark

KRUSH said:


> Hello Head-Fi community!
> 
> I'm ecstatic to have stumbled upon this audiophile forum and specific post uncovering and reviewing classic earbuds. Like many of you, I prefer this style for a variety of reasons and as an audio layman, need help finding the most appropriate earbuds for my broad usage. I need neutral, all-purpose earbuds as I will be using them for predominately gaming while streaming on Twitch, but also listening to plenty of varied music and media. I found this guideline a few posts back in which I'll answer thoroughly for efficiency.
> 
> ...



Agree with @samandhi on Yincrow RW2000 and Smabat M2S Pro.


----------



## Ronion

mochill said:


> Smabat st20 pro


Have you tried them?


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Have you tried them?


Yeah, I was kinda' waiting for something more also... LOL


----------



## KRUSH (Mar 10, 2022)

I wasn't expecting such prompt replies. Thank you to all so far for responding to my inquiry!



mochill said:


> Smabat st20 pro


- Hey mochill! I wasn't too sure if you were tossing out the Smabat st20 pro suggestion to me but I figured I'd respond anyhow. The product looks rather unique! Any specific reasons why you mention them? Do you know if these earbuds can be fitted with a silicone cushion with a hook? If so, any recommendations? Judging by the pictures of them on the manufacture's website, do the earbud's wires actually wrap around/behind the ear? While I've never tried that style, I'm curious if that may work in place of a silicon cushion with a hook.



mt877 said:


> Here's a suggestion:
> K's Temperament 小黑铃 Bell-LBBs
> @RikudouGoku's Review: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ks-temperament-小黑铃-bell-lbbs.25331/reviews#review-26435
> 
> ...


- Hey mt877! Thank you for the suggestion and links to detailed reviews. Yes, I meant standard 3.5mm stereo headphone out. I was reading through RikudouGoku's review you linked and noticed his setup included using a Schiit Asgard 3 amp/dac with K's Temperament 小黑铃 Bell-LBBs earbuds. I don't have any experience using an amp/dac and would prefer to avoid them, if possible. (Just for the sake of minimizing hardware on my desk.) Would an amp/dac be necessary to achieve the sound RikudouGoku and yourself hear from the earbuds? If it is necessary, which amp/dac do you recommend within an overall budget of $200 (including the earbuds)? Or will the earbuds sound just as great plugged directly into my motherboard? Also, which is borderline necessary, can silicone cushions with a hook be fitted to these earbuds? If so, any recommendations?



samandhi said:


> Very well written and thorough also!
> 
> I can't speak to the LBBS mentioned above my post (probably need to try them out at some point), but I will throw in my suggestion as the Yincrow RW2000 (also rated very highly by others). They are so well balanced; they are fantastic all-rounders, good for many and multiple genres IMO. These fluxuate often in price. I bought mine for $129 a while back, but it has gone up as much as $169, and back down again over time.
> 
> ...


- Hello samandhi! I appreciate your kind words and your insightful response. With this forum and crowd-sourced wealth of information, I feel like I'm about to high dive into the rabbit hole. Hah! Thank you for pointing out that your suggested earbuds can all be driven from the PC. The Yincrow RW2000 seem like an appropriate and compelling option! Do you know if those earbuds can be fitted with a silicone cushion with a hook? If so, any recommendations?
-Highs and mids certainly need to be tempered for me, so I'm a bit hesitant to test out your Smabat M2s Pro suggestion. How complicated and expensive would it be to change out the drivers and filters? And would that be even worth the effort when compared to your first recommendation of the Yincrow RW2000?
-Those Moondrop Chaconne look super sleek and capable! Such high praise is tempting me to increase my budget. I've never tried EQing anything. Is it merely downloading a certain program, setting the EQ, saving and then forgetting about it? How much more balanced are these compared to the Yincrow RW2000?
-Are IEM's similar to in-ear earbuds in that they create a seal and encapsulate the air/build pressure?
-AND OH! I was under the impression that only certain earbud shell types could accept silicone cushions with a hook. Is that not the case? Are all earbud shell types capable of fitting such a cushion?



baskingshark said:


> Agree with @samandhi on Yincrow RW2000 and Smabat M2S Pro.


- Hey baskingshark! Thanks for backing the other member recommendations as it provides further reassurance in the mention.


----------



## samandhi

KRUSH said:


> I wasn't expecting such prompt replies. Thank you to all so far for responding to my inquiry!
> 
> 
> - Hey mochill! I wasn't too sure if you were tossing out the Smabat st20 pro suggestion to me but I figured I'd respond anyhow. The product looks rather unique! Any specific reasons why you mention them? Do you know if these earbuds can be fitted with a silicone cushion with a hook? If so, any recommendations? Judging by the pictures of them on the manufacture's website, do the earbud's wires actually wrap around/behind the ear? While I've never tried that style, I'm curious if that may work in place of a silicon cushion with a hook.
> ...


You are about to do that "high dive" into the rabbit hole. You can say that you will buy just one, but I'll bet dollars to dozens that your curiosity of "what else is out there?" will overcome your shrewdness. 

For what you are wanting, I am not so sure that the Smabat ST20 or Plus will be for you. I have not heard them personally, but from all that I have read they are pretty hot in the presence region (1k-3k or so). But if someone else can speak better to this, I would digress. 

As for the RW2000, I am not sure what you mean by silicone cushion and hook, so I will show a couple of pictures of what you might do with these. BTW! for the part that sits in your concha, you will more than likely want foams IMO. They are soft and supple, and don't irritate the ears like silicone does:



Spoiler: click here



A picture of the Smabat ST10S Gold (for instance) with silicone pads rather than foam:




A picture of the RW2000 with overear hooks with foams, rather than the silicone pads:





Or you could use something like this ear wing, that goes around the bud itself that is held in place by a hook in your ear, rather than over your ear (sorry for the lint on it LOL). These are pretty universal for most earbuds as they tend to be of similar size in the diameter of the bud itself (regardless of the shell type and size). 







The drivers and filters for the M2s Pro aren't that expensive. Here is the Smabat site for those if you choose to do that. Though IMO I think the RW2000 are better in every way (though keep in mind that I have not tried all the different drivers, so I can't say for sure). 

Honestly, they are both very balanced, but the Chaconne is more on the analytical side, where the RW2000 is more musical (though I would say that the Chaconne has more accurate timbre, especially where real instruments are concerned). I would be happy with either, and since you are wanting ear hooks fitment isn't really an issue. If I had to pick something that one has over the other, I would say that the RW2000 has the better option for cabling because it is a MMCX connector and replaceable, where the cable on the Chaconne is fixed. I guess it is going to come down to what you are really looking for in the end. Both are worth the money IMHO, but remember this hobby is (to a point) subjective, and opinions vary widely. 

Yes, that is exactly what IEMs are (in ear monitors). Contrary to what popular (retail type) sites might call them, they aren't earbuds like they (and Google) would have you believe...  That is one reason it is so hard to find actual earbuds when doing a search nowadays, which is a shame, because classic (flathead) earbuds are far from dead! Just look at how many pages is in this thread for instance. 

If you are talking about silicone pads as the type that can direct the sound into your ears (shaped like earpods), they ARE available for regular earbuds, but not highly regarded or used because they change the sound signature in a big way (and not always good). But if you are referring to the type in the picture I included then yes, they are pretty universal, sort of. There is not real standard for earbud diameter, but they all tend to follow only a few differences in size in order to fit into your concha properly. This also makes it easier to buy third party foams, silicones, wings, etc...


----------



## Ronion

KRUSH said:


> I wasn't expecting such prompt replies. Thank you to all so far for responding to my inquiry!
> 
> 
> - Hey mochill! I wasn't too sure if you were tossing out the Smabat st20 pro suggestion to me but I figured I'd respond anyhow. The product looks rather unique! Any specific reasons why you mention them? Do you know if these earbuds can be fitted with a silicone cushion with a hook? If so, any recommendations? Judging by the pictures of them on the manufacture's website, do the earbud's wires actually wrap around/behind the ear? While I've never tried that style, I'm curious if that may work in place of a silicon cushion with a hook.
> ...


I’m not sure why, but for some reason the 150 Ohm buds tend to have very good sound and can be driver by regular 1v outputs.  I’ve built dozens of earbuds, and the 150 Ohm ones seem to be the hardest to mess up.  Any reasonable “drop and drag”-style tunings sound fairly neutral.  They have a fairly extended frequency response, wide soundstage, and good power handling and resolution.

the Faaeal Rosemary can be purchased on Amazon.  It’s known to be a bit warm, but ultimately kind.

this one’s a bit too bassy for neutral, but has a great soundstage and can be purchased with a mic:
https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/he-150ohm.html
Same driver, but supposedly tuned in a more neutral fashion, but I’ve never hear it or seen it graphed on any rig that imitates reality.  It too can be purchased with a mic.
https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/he-150pro.html

These may be interesting as well:
https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/ty-hi-z-f150ts150s150-earbuds.html
https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/ty-hi-z-150s-3.5mm-earbuds.html


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> I’m not sure why, but for some reason the 150 Ohm buds tend to have very good sound and can be driver by regular 1v outputs.  I’ve built dozens of earbuds, and the 150 Ohm ones seem to be the hardest to mess up.  Any reasonable “drop and drag”-style tunings sound fairly neutral.  They have a fairly extended frequency response, wide soundstage, and good power handling and resolution.
> 
> the Faaeal Rosemary can be purchased on Amazon.  It’s known to be a bit warm, but ultimately kind.
> 
> ...


Very nice recs! 

I would actually like to try some of the higher Ohm drivers at some point myself. I have heard that there are even 600 Ohm buds? WOW! The only experience I have with a150 Ohm driver is the ST10S, and really the biggest difference (compared to say, the M2s Pro) to my ears is the increase in bass (quantity and weight), but that could just be the Smabat house sound that they tend to do to all their buds...  Obviously there are other differences, but to me the overall tuning is similar other than the aforementioned bass. 

I was a bit surprised that they weren't as hard to drive as I thought they were going to be in the beginning. As a matter of fact, I don't think they are any harder to drive than any of my other buds at much lower Ohms ratings.


----------



## buggy

Used to have LBBs but I felt the sound is thin, bright and poor bass. Perhaps can try using double foam.


----------



## KRUSH

samandhi said:


> You are about to do that "high dive" into the rabbit hole. You can say that you will buy just one, but I'll bet dollars to dozens that your curiosity of "what else is out there?" will overcome your shrewdness.
> 
> For what you are wanting, I am not so sure that the Smabat ST20 or Plus will be for you. I have not heard them personally, but from all that I have read they are pretty hot in the presence region (1k-3k or so). But if someone else can speak better to this, I would digress.
> 
> ...



Ah! I've been describing my desired cushion style based upon the description in the second link within the guideline of my first post above. The third image you provided more closely resembles what I'm referring to. Your second image of the foam pad and over-ear hooks are also appealing as it would ensure the earbuds stay in place. However, I fear the plastic over-ear hook portion will eventually fatigue the back of my ear. Are you aware of this style but instead of a plastic over-ear hook, it is a softer silicone?

For clarity, the first image below was the one within link and I hope to find an appropriate size of it (probably medium) for whichever earbud I decide. It's the best form fitting cushion style I've ever tested for my ears. The second image may also work.

The third image is an intriguing foam and silicon hook hybrid I found within the same link. (The fourth image is my Bose iE2 earbuds I used as a reference with a similar design but unique to those earbuds.)
















Due to your reasoned comparison, I am leaning towards the RW2000. They are within budget and apparently broadly capable. Interchangeable cables are also a cool plus. Is there a budget-friendly cable upgrade that'll drastically increase the sound quality? Or will it be a marginal increase and moreso cosmetic? *And most importantly, where might I find the above cushion styles to fit the RW2000? (Perhaps there are larger foam cushions that'll rest comfortably and stay put in my ear but I've yet to find one. Any recommendations for the RW2000?)



Ronion said:


> I’m not sure why, but for some reason the 150 Ohm buds tend to have very good sound and can be driver by regular 1v outputs.  I’ve built dozens of earbuds, and the 150 Ohm ones seem to be the hardest to mess up.  Any reasonable “drop and drag”-style tunings sound fairly neutral.  They have a fairly extended frequency response, wide soundstage, and good power handling and resolution.
> 
> the Faaeal Rosemary can be purchased on Amazon.  It’s known to be a bit warm, but ultimately kind.
> 
> ...


Hey Ronion! I much appreciate you providing a handful of options. I am but a layman (for now!), so I can't draw much comparison or conclusion in regards to (150) Ohms. What exactly do different Ohm levels signify? Have you had any experience with the Yincrow RW2000 and how that might compare to your suggestions? The earbud offerings at Penonaudio are outstanding. Opening my eyes to all these options I never knew existed!

I hope to purchase a neutral/balanced, jack-of-all-trades earbud with a silicone cushion hook for long gaming, music and media consumption sessions by tomorrow!


----------



## samandhi

KRUSH said:


> Ah! I've been describing my desired cushion style based upon the description in the second link within the guideline of my first post above. The third image you provided more closely resembles what I'm referring to. Your second image of the foam pad and over-ear hooks are also appealing as it would ensure the earbuds stay in place. However, I fear the plastic over-ear hook portion will eventually fatigue the back of my ear. Are you aware of this style but instead of a plastic over-ear hook, it is a softer silicone?
> 
> For clarity, the first image below was the one within link and I hope to find an appropriate size of it (probably medium) for whichever earbud I decide. It's the best form fitting cushion style I've ever tested for my ears. The second image may also work.
> 
> ...


Oh, gotcha! So you are looking for a wing type of pad?! I actually have a set much like the ones in your second photo: here. As for the over ear hooks, they actually are very comfortable (almost) indefinitely. They are made of a soft rubber. They are pliable and will stay in the shape (to a point) that you bend them to for comfort. I use them with another set of buds I have, and they are terrific (IMO better than the wings you are looking at). @Ronion just got some, and I think he can vouch for them indeed being supremely comfortable. They come with different size hooks to put on different neck sizes of buds also. They can be found: here.

I used to have those Bose buds, and the Stay Here tips were some of the most comfortable out there IMO. I wish more companies would use something similar for comfort and rock-solid fitment. 

It is totally up to you, but IMO the cable that comes with the RW2000 is one of the best I have come across (for earbuds) and doesn't need to be "upgraded" (YMMV). As for the silicone ear wings, I linked some above, but here is a search result that has some different ones on Aliexpress, and here is a similar search on Amazon.

WOW! You move quickly when you decide something don't ya'? Well, don't forget to let us know your experience with them once you have them, and have a chance to settle into them a bit?!


----------



## baskingshark

Ronion said:


> Same driver, but supposedly tuned in a more neutral fashion, but I’ve never hear it or seen it graphed on any rig that imitates reality.  It too can be purchased with a mic.
> https://penonaudio.com/earphones/earbuds/he-150pro.html



I bought the HE150 Pro. It needs amping as the 150 ohm specs suggest, and is a deep V shaped earbud. In fact, I haven't heard too many V shaped buds TBH. So bass extends quite deep with recessed mids and a boosted upper mids/lower treble. Fit is a bit iffy for me with the bell-shaped design. I'm thinking of selling it away actually.


----------



## RikudouGoku

KRUSH said:


> was reading through RikudouGoku's review you linked and noticed his setup included using a Schiit Asgard 3 amp/dac with K's Temperament 小黑铃 Bell-LBBs earbuds. I don't have any experience using an amp/dac and would prefer to avoid them, if possible. (Just for the sake of minimizing hardware on my desk.) Would an amp/dac be necessary to achieve the sound RikudouGoku and yourself hear from the earbuds? If it is necessary, which amp/dac do you recommend within an overall budget of $200 (including the earbuds)? Or will the earbuds sound just as great plugged directly into my motherboard?


You dont need anything that expensive, but I would still highly recommend avoiding using the motherboard output.
Since you are in the US, you can just get the Apple dongle.


KRUSH said:


> What exactly do different Ohm levels signify?


It is how much resistance the transducer (in this case, earbuds) will have to the current that is flowing to it. Higher means that it is a higher resistance, think of it as something like friction. 


But do keep in mind that just because something has a high ohm value, doesnt mean it is hard to drive and need a lot of power. Because the Sensitivity value is just as important and that value represents basically how effect the transducer is at using the power it is getting.

Then there are also something called, current limiting in amps, where basically all amps will limit the current it is outputting if you are using lower resistances (usually under 50 ohm). (but this isnt something you need to know at this stage you are in lol.)


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> I bought the HE150 Pro. It needs amping as the 150 ohm specs suggest, and is a deep V shaped earbud. In fact, I haven't heard too many V shaped buds TBH. So bass extends quite deep with recessed mids and a boosted upper mids/lower treble. Fit is a bit iffy for me with the bell-shaped design. I'm thinking of selling it away actually.


The shell design is ok. Funnel-shape shell is the one of the most comfortable types. Vents system is good also.
The main problem is the metal-mesh cover, which is slightly larger than the standard MX500 plastic cover, and it changes the sound especially with this driver.
I transferred driver on MX500 shell, and I'm getting definitely better sound than with metal shell, but because of metal-mesh cover, the sound is not quite good as OG HE150.
Another bad thing with pro version is the cable, which gets entangled very easily.


----------



## Podster

I've kinda always thought it crazy how something so inexpensive could kinda set the bar for so many who have followed. The Monk's are for sure in my top ten best bargains in audio of all time  Then again this is just one Yay-Who's opinion and you know what they say about those


----------



## athiker94

May be asking for too much with this question. But, I'm seeking out an earbud with a planar sound. I use HifiMan He400i phones at home and would love to find something for work with that clear sound. Something with great soundstage , good mids, tight bass and an open full size can sound. I am using a pair of ry4s currently and love them. But, am also seeking out other options. Thanks.


----------



## Ronion (Mar 10, 2022)

KRUSH said:


> Ah! I've been describing my desired cushion style based upon the description in the second link within the guideline of my first post above. The third image you provided more closely resembles what I'm referring to. Your second image of the foam pad and over-ear hooks are also appealing as it would ensure the earbuds stay in place. However, I fear the plastic over-ear hook portion will eventually fatigue the back of my ear. Are you aware of this style but instead of a plastic over-ear hook, it is a softer silicone?
> 
> For clarity, the first image below was the one within link and I hope to find an appropriate size of it (probably medium) for whichever earbud I decide. It's the best form fitting cushion style I've ever tested for my ears. The second image may also work.
> 
> ...


What @RikudouGoku says about the Dongle and Ohms is right on point. 

Other things worth mentioning that @baskingshark and @furyossa alluded to is fit.  You can add a Shark fin shapes silicone ear hook to virtually any bud.  The one @samandhi recommends is the most comfortable for the both of us BUT I doubt it’s necessary on any traditional bud shape like the MX500 or PK.  Traditional/popular shapes work best in both my ears and test fixture.  There’s a reason for their long term popularity.  My ears particularly like the PK shaped buds, but my wallet prefers MX. MX can generally be found for cheaper and often have a higher level of sound quality for the dollar.  MX is still not bad fit-wise.

just to add a bit to the mix about higher impedance buds: in general, higher impedance buds will get you higher resolution and better composure at higher volume levels.  The problem is that most of the really high impedance buds lack deep bass and extended treble.  There are physical/electrical reasons for that but it can be designed around and several drivers break the trend.  The 150 Ohm ones make for a nice middle ground In my opinion and tend to do everything well and they generally don’t break the bank.  The Goldilocks Buds so to speak.


----------



## KRUSH (Mar 10, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Oh, gotcha! So you are looking for a wing type of pad?! I actually have a set much like the ones in your second photo: here. As for the over ear hooks, they actually are very comfortable (almost) indefinitely. They are made of a soft rubber. They are pliable and will stay in the shape (to a point) that you bend them to for comfort. I use them with another set of buds I have, and they are terrific (IMO better than the wings you are looking at). @Ronion just got some, and I think he can vouch for them indeed being supremely comfortable. They come with different size hooks to put on different neck sizes of buds also. They can be found: here.
> 
> I used to have those Bose buds, and the Stay Here tips were some of the most comfortable out there IMO. I wish more companies would use something similar for comfort and rock-solid fitment.
> 
> ...


Relieving to hear that there are over-ear hook options and are comfortable! Was your second link suppose to direct to a different webpage for the over-ear hooks? The Bose Stay Here tips are the most comfortable cushion I've tried so far. Excited to find others though! Normally I deliberate on a purchasing decision for far too long. But because I don't currently have a desirable pair of earbuds, I'm asking you Head-Fi pro's to expidite the process! 

Alright. Re-reading the RW2000's specifications, it's only 16 Ohms, which means they can be driven fully from the 3.5mm motherboard headphone output, correct? For the hell of it, if you were to recommend a bang-for-your-buck amp/dac to accompany the RW2000, what would it be? And would the silicon wing tips in your first link fit the RW-2000s?



RikudouGoku said:


> You dont need anything that expensive, but I would still highly recommend avoiding using the motherboard output.
> Since you are in the US, you can just get the Apple dongle.
> 
> It is how much resistance the transducer (in this case, earbuds) will have to the current that is flowing to it. Higher means that it is a higher resistance, think of it as something like friction.
> ...


Hey RikudouGoku! Glad to also hear from you! Thank you for the electrical education. Why do you strongly recommend using at least the Apple dongle over the motherboard output? Is it that the dongle (or a amp/dac) provides less resistance (or more current) to the transducer?

And by Apple dongle, are you referring to image below of Apple's 3.5mm to USB-C? Beyond that, is there a bang-for-your-buck amp/dac you'd recommend?







Ronion said:


> What @RikudouGoku says about the Dongle and Ohms is right on point.
> 
> Other things worth mentioning that @baskingshark and @furyossa alluded to is fit.  You can add a Shark fin shapes silicone ear hook to virtually any bud.  The one @samandhi recommends is the most comfortable for the both of us BUT I doubt it’s necessary on any traditional bud shape like the MX500 or PK.  Traditional/popular shapes work best in both my ears and test fixture.  There’s a reason for their long term popularity.  My ears particularly like the PK shaped buds, but my wallet prefers MX. MX can generally be found for cheaper and often have a higher level of sound quality for the dollar.  MX is still not bad fit-wise.
> 
> just to add a bit to the mix about higher impedance buds: in general, higher impedance buds will get you higher resolution and better composure at higher volume levels.  The problem is that most of the really high impedance buds lack deep bass and extended treble.  There are physical/electrical reasons for that but it can be designed around and several drivers break the trend.  The 150 Ohm ones make for a nice middle ground In my opinion and tend to do everything well and they generally don’t break the bank.  The Goldilocks Buds so to speak.


I briefly dipped my toes into non-mainstream earbuds options more than a decade ago and I briefly had a pair of Yuin PK3s (?). I assume that's a PK-styled shell and don't remember it sitting snugly in my ear with just the provided foam cushions. New testing is needed it seems!

Forgive my ignorance, are higher Ohm earbuds exclusive with higher pricing due to the increased resolution and composure at higher volume levels? The Yincrow RW-2000s start at $129 but only have 16 Ohms/impedance.


*To all*: Has anyone tested the Venture Electronics Asura 3.0FE or the Venture Electronics Zen 2.0? Are either of them neutral and balanced without high highs or mids? Capable of playing anything well? The Ohms aren't listed for the Asura 3.0FE's but the Zen 2.0 have a high impedance of 320 Ohms so require a amp. Within both links, Venture Electronics offers a new amp/dac called the Megatron for a pre-order combo price of an additional $50. Any have thoughts on it?

Any insight into how the either of the above VE's compare against the Yincrow RW-2000?

And lastly, much cheaper options with high acclaim I keep running into are the VE Monk Plus, FAAEAL options and a couple others. When comparing these and other commonly mentioned cheaper options to the above more expensive Yincrow RW-2000s, VE Asura 3.0FE and VE Zen 2.0, are the differences in audio quality night and day? If you coupled an appropriate amp/dac with one of the renowned cheaper earbud options, would that additional amplification push the cheaper earbuds to a similar level of quality as one of the above more expensive earbud options?


----------



## RikudouGoku

KRUSH said:


> Hey RikudouGoku! Glad to also hear from you! Thank you for the electrical education. Why do you strongly recommend using at least the Apple dongle over the motherboard output? Is it that the dongle (or a amp/dac) provides less resistance (or more current) to the transducer?
> 
> And by Apple dongle, are you referring to image below of Apple's 3.5mm to USB-C? Beyond that, is there a bang-for-your-buck amp/dac you'd recommend?


I recommended the Apple dongle because:
1. You are in the US and you will not have EU bottlenecked version.
2. It is the best value dongle you can get. 
3. You want to stay away from motherboards because they have a lot of interference and are likely to have high output impedance = high risk of hiss or other noise.

And yes, that pic is correct. 


Moving up from the apple dongle will usually lead you on this path:

tempotec sonata HD Pro -> E1DA 9038 series -> portable amps (like the Topping NX7 (amp) + Apple dongle (dac)) 


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003176732524.html
(the MUSE02 version.)
I have ordered this one for myself to see if there are any cheaper amps with high power I can personally recommend though...as most stuff under 50 usd isnt really that powerful.


----------



## waynes world (Mar 10, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003176732524.html
> (the MUSE02 version.)
> I have ordered this one for myself to see if there are any cheaper amps with high power I can personally recommend though...as most stuff under 50 usd isnt really that powerful.



Just wanted to mention that your ali links never work for me. For example, the above link took me here.
Btw, I am using chrome.

Edit: I see that if I copy the text "https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003176732524.html" and then paste that into the URL, I then go to the right place. But if I click on the link that you provide, I won't. Anyway, I know how to get there now, so I'm good.


----------



## RikudouGoku

waynes world said:


> Just wanted to mention that your ali links never work for me. For example, the above link took me here.
> Btw, I am using chrome.
> 
> Edit: I see that if I copy the text "https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003176732524.html" and then paste that into the URL, I then go to the right place. But if I click on the link that you provide, I won't. Anyway, I know how to get there now, so I'm good.


just checked and it seems that headfi is doing something strange to it...it doesnt work on incognito but otherwise works (I have adblock).....

its just a clean link though....I have no clue how to fix it...


----------



## samandhi

KRUSH said:


> Relieving to hear that there are over-ear hook options and are comfortable! Was your second link suppose to direct to a different webpage for the over-ear hooks? The Bose Stay Here tips are the most comfortable cushion I've tried so far. Excited to find others though! Normally I deliberate on a purchasing decision for far too long. But because I don't currently have a desirable pair of earbuds, I'm asking you Head-Fi pro's to expidite the process!
> 
> Alright. Re-reading the RW2000's specifications, it's only 16 Ohms, which means they can be driven fully from the 3.5mm motherboard headphone output, correct? For the hell of it, if you were to recommend a bang-for-your-buck amp/dac to accompany the RW2000, what would it be? And would the silicon wing tips in your first link fit the RW-2000s?


It was for the shark fin/ear wing type tips. The kind that stay in your ear and hold like the Bose. Yes, they can be driven from pretty much any source with a 3.5mm single ended connector. @RikudouGoku and @Ronion are correct, in that you might want at least a DAC if not a DAC/amp combo because sound cards from PCs are pretty horrible IMO. But the good news is that you don't really need an amp to begin with. You can get a cheap DAC that will be much better than your soundcard. I would say the DAC that has been recommended is probably the best for getting started with just a PC (or even a phone).

As for bang for buck with a DAC/amp combo, that is a toughy as I don't know all the requirements you might have, and what you might want in the future. If it were me, I would use a DAP because nowadays they can act as DAC/amp, but unplug them, and you can take them on the go. Having said that, for desktop setups, choose from https://ifi-audio.com/ (for instance) their stuff is always a popular choice.

Yes, those will fit most earbuds from 14mm to 16(ish)mm (IIRC). They are very stretchy and pliable, though stiff enough to hold in your ears. 

Also, here is a pretty good read on impedance, sensitivity, and amplifier power for your perusal. Hope it helps. Also, there is a whole section dedicated to sound science here on Head-Fi: here if you are so inclined to bore yourself to death learn...


----------



## samandhi

RikudouGoku said:


> just checked and it seems that headfi is doing something strange to it...it doesnt work on incognito but otherwise works (I have adblock).....
> 
> its just a clean link though....I have no clue how to fix it...


Hmm. Works for me in Edge, so I dunno either.


----------



## RikudouGoku

samandhi said:


> It was for the shark fin/ear wing type tips. The kind that stay in your ear and hold like the Bose. Yes, they can be driven from pretty much any source with a 3.5mm single ended connector. @RikudouGoku and @Ronion are correct, in that you might want at least a DAC if not a DAC/amp combo because sound cards from PCs are pretty horrible IMO. But the good news is that you don't really need an amp to begin with. You can get a cheap DAC that will be much better than your soundcard. I would say the DAC that has been recommended is probably the best for getting started with just a PC (or even a phone).


You DO need an amp, otherwise you be listening to silence.   

(dongles are Dac/amps.)


samandhi said:


> Hmm. Works for me in Edge, so I dunno either.


yeah, I have no clue...


----------



## baskingshark

KRUSH said:


> Relieving to hear that there are over-ear hook options and are comfortable! Was your second link suppose to direct to a different webpage for the over-ear hooks? The Bose Stay Here tips are the most comfortable cushion I've tried so far. Excited to find others though! Normally I deliberate on a purchasing decision for far too long. But because I don't currently have a desirable pair of earbuds, I'm asking you Head-Fi pro's to expidite the process!
> 
> Alright. Re-reading the RW2000's specifications, it's only 16 Ohms, which means they can be driven fully from the 3.5mm motherboard headphone output, correct? For the hell of it, if you were to recommend a bang-for-your-buck amp/dac to accompany the RW2000, what would it be? And would the silicon wing tips in your first link fit the RW-2000s?
> 
> ...



A friend of mine has the Megatron. He sold it away after a day haha, reporting that it hisses with low impedance/high sensitivity IEMs/buds, and also he needs to use them at volume 1/100 for some IEMs.

I think the Megatron is meant for higher impedance/low sensitivity gear, so kind of a niche source.


----------



## samandhi

RikudouGoku said:


> You DO need an amp, otherwise you be listening to silence.
> 
> (dongles are Dac/amps.)
> 
> yeah, I have no clue...


I meant something like a desktop solution, rather than a dongle...


----------



## Ronion

KRUSH said:


> I briefly dipped my toes into non-mainstream earbuds options more than a decade ago and I briefly had a pair of Yuin PK3s (?). I assume that's a PK-styled shell and don't remember it sitting snugly in my ear with just the provided foam cushions. New testing is needed it seems!
> 
> Forgive my ignorance, are higher Ohm earbuds exclusive with higher pricing due to the increased resolution and composure at higher volume levels? The Yincrow RW-2000s start at $129 but only have 16 Ohms/impedance.


the PK may just be too small for you which is actually good because the MX shell is where the deals are.  It’s bigger, but still not huge.  You may be able to fit all sorts if unusual shells and may get along with the last generation SMABAT shells like the M2s pro.

You can find buds of all impedances at about any price points and quality doesn’t necessarily equal price.  I wouldn’t be surprised if that Yincrow is one of the drivers that bucks the trend.  The Tingo TG38s is at least one of the most detailed drivers I’ve heard and it’s only $14 and low impedance.


----------



## jao29

Hi all! Been out of the earbud game for a long time. Can anyone recommend me a warm relaxed sound sig akin to the Catear Audio Mimi?


----------



## baskingshark

jao29 said:


> Hi all! Been out of the earbud game for a long time. Can anyone recommend me a warm relaxed sound sig akin to the Catear Audio Mimi?



Yincrow X6, Faaeal Rosemary. 

X6 is kind of the BLON BL-03 of the earbud world, thick warm bassy sound, analoguish, very relaxing but not too technical.

FAAEAL Rosemary is like a Final Audio E5000. Needs amping, laid back and smooth and thick note weight. But also not too technical.

Both are good for chilling and relaxing. Not that great for critical listening.


----------



## jao29

baskingshark said:


> Yincrow X6, Faaeal Rosemary.
> 
> X6 is kind of the BLON BL-03 of the earbud world, thick warm bassy sound, analoguish, very relaxing but not too technical.
> 
> ...


I already have the X6. Despite the fact that it’s a warm and bassy sounding bud. I found it too have a surprising amount of detail for a basshead type of sound. I’m looking for something a little bit warmer than the X6 if that’s possible.


----------



## baskingshark

jao29 said:


> I already have the X6. Despite the fact that it’s a warm and bassy sounding bud. I found it too have a surprising amount of detail for a basshead type of sound. I’m looking for something a little bit warmer than the X6 if that’s possible.



FAAEAL Rosemary is even darker than the X6 actually. But it needs amping.


----------



## jao29

baskingshark said:


> FAAEAL Rosemary is even darker than the X6 actually. But it needs amping.


Will try the Rosemary out. Thanks ☺


----------



## rprodrigues

Folks, are Toneking TO200 still relevant today compared to newer gear in the same price range?


----------



## mt877 (Mar 11, 2022)

For anyone interested, found Yincrow RW-3000 on sale at AE + $20 store coupon. Coupon just about covers taxes / vat charge (depending on retail tax where you live).
Right now about 15 hours left before end of sale.
VS Audio Store: Yincrow RW 3000 Flagship
$279.30 for 3.5SE version
$284.01 for 2.5Bal. ver.
$288.72 for 4.4Bal. ver.

EDIT: Thanks to @samandhi use coupon code *TS10* at checkout to knock off another $10*.* I wish I knew that before I made my purchase, but all is good anyway.


----------



## XP_98

baskingshark said:


> A friend of mine has the Megatron. He sold it away after a day haha, reporting that it hisses with low impedance/high sensitivity IEMs/buds, and also he needs to use them at volume 1/100 for some IEMs.
> 
> I think the Megatron is meant for higher impedance/low sensitivity gear, so kind of a niche source.


The Megatron pairs very well with VE Zen 2.0 or Zen SU earbuds, and of course also with full size headphones.
It's not recommended for sensitive IEMs.


----------



## Sam L

baskingshark said:


> Yincrow X6, Faaeal Rosemary.
> 
> X6 is kind of the BLON BL-03 of the earbud world, thick warm bassy sound, analoguish, very relaxing but not too technical.
> 
> ...



both great choices. I'm not sure there are that many options for a technical earbud under $100, though.


----------



## Sam L

just got the moondrop nameless in. At $23 on amazon (in the us), another high value earbud -- well tuned, some upper mid roll off (but still carries good energy), no mid bass bloat, good bass (for an earbud), mids are well presented (not too recessed or forward), soundstage is a tad small but imaging is decent. All in all, a good earbud.


----------



## Sam L

Sam L said:


> just got the moondrop nameless in. At $23 on amazon (in the us), another high value earbud -- well tuned, some upper mid roll off (but still carries good energy), no mid bass bloat, good bass (for an earbud), mids are well presented (not too recessed or forward), soundstage is a tad small but imaging is decent. All in all, a good earbud.


my observation is after 5 mins, subject to change as I listen more.


----------



## waynes world

Sam L said:


> both great choices. I'm not sure there are that many options for a technical earbud under $100, though.



Not sure exactly what "technical earbud" means, but if it means "friggin' great", then the Newbsound pro32 fits the bill!


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> For anyone interested, found Yincrow RW-3000 on sale at AE + $20 store coupon. Coupon just about covers taxes / vat charge (depending on retail tax where you live).
> Right now about 15 hours left before end of sale.
> VS Audio Store: Yincrow RW 3000 Flagship
> $279.30 for 3.5SE version
> ...


Ordered. Thank you for sharing! 

BTW! If you are using Microsoft Edge (and its own coupon finder addon) for 2.5mm Bal ver. after store coupon of $20, minus the VAT (for me in the US), which is $18, then Edge found a $10 coupon *TS10* it is $272 (for me) total. 

I haven't ordered from this store on Aliexpress; I assume it is a decent store, by its 99.1 positive score?

Meanwhile, the RW2000 are $122 after $8 store coupon on the same store: VS Audio Store: Yincrow RW-2000 (there might also be a coupon found by Edge coupon finder, who knows?!)


----------



## RikudouGoku

samandhi said:


> Ordered. Thank you for sharing!
> 
> BTW! If you are using Microsoft Edge (and its own coupon finder addon) for 2.5mm Bal ver. after store coupon of $20, minus the VAT (for me in the US), which is $18, then Edge found a $10 coupon *TS10* it is $272 (for me) total.
> 
> ...


VS Audio is one of the bigger stores, I wouldnt worry about it.


----------



## samandhi

RikudouGoku said:


> VS Audio is one of the bigger stores, I wouldnt worry about it.


Gotcha, thanks!

Also went ahead and ordered a couple more pairs of the CCA CRA (for $13 per) from the official CCA store, and since they don't come with carry cases, I also got 2 of these from VS Audio.


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Ordered. Thank you for sharing!
> 
> BTW! If you are using Microsoft Edge (and its own coupon finder addon) for 2.5mm Bal ver. after store coupon of $20, minus the VAT (for me in the US), which is $18, then Edge found a $10 coupon *TS10* it is $272 (for me) total.
> 
> ...


Nice! Darn, didn't know about the MS Edge coupon thing. Anyway, I went for the 4.4 Balanced. To me the balanced is a bit more versatile. I can either plug into a DAP with 4.4 balanced or convert to 3.5SE using a 4.4Bal female to 3.5SE male adapter for DAPs that only have 3.5SE. Best of both worlds sort of thing.


----------



## samandhi (Mar 11, 2022)

mt877 said:


> Nice! Darn, didn't know about the MS Edge coupon thing. Anyway, I went for the 4.4 Balanced. To me the balanced is a bit more versatile. I can either plug into a DAP with 4.4 balanced or convert to 3.5SE using a 4.4Bal female to 3.5SE male adapter for DAPs that only have 3.5SE. Best of both worlds sort of thing.


Yeah, when I first saw it, I wasn't a big fan because it seemed more annoying than anything else, but one day when looking at something, it came up and automatically started plugging in all sorts of coupons, and when it finished, it told me which one was best. I have been using it ever since then.

That was also my thinking with the 2.5mm balanced (for my gear). My DX300 comes with all three connections, but my iBasso IEMs come with 2.5mm connector, and adapter to 3.5mm SE, and I bought a 2.5mm to 4.4mm for my DX160 that only has 3.5mm and 4.4mm. I have all my bases covered except 4.4mm to 3.5mm (I will have to get one of those). Where did you get your 4.4mm to 3.5mm adapter?


----------



## mt877 (Mar 11, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Yeah, when I first saw it, I wasn't a big fan because it seemed more annoying than anything else, but one day when looking at something, it came up and automatically started plugging in all sorts of coupons, and when it finished, it told me which one was best. I have been using it ever since then.
> 
> That was also my thinking with the 2.5mm balanced (for my gear). My DX300 comes with all three connections, but my iBasso IEMs come with 2.5mm connector, and adapter to 3.5mm SE, and I bought a 2.5mm to 4.4mm for my DX160 that only has 3.5mm and 4.4mm. I have all my bases covered except 4.4mm to 3.5mm (I will have to get one of those). Where did you get your 4.4mm to 3.5mm adapter?


I went with a GUCraftsman adapter from Amazon. GUCraftsman is also on AE, but the Amazon price is lower and I can build up Amazon awards points with purchases on my Amazon awards card. I used my awards card for the AE purchase, so should get a few awards points to spend on more stuff at Amazon (Yep, vicious circle...). Just got to let the points build up.

EDIT: I added the $10 discount code you found to my original post. Might as well spread the savings for the folks interested in buying the RW-3000.


----------



## samandhi (Mar 11, 2022)

mt877 said:


> I went with a GUCraftsman adapter from Amazon. GUCraftsman is also on AE, but the Amazon price is lower and I can build up Amazon awards points with purchases on my Amazon awards card. I used my awards card for the AE purchase, so should get a few awards points to spend on more stuff at Amazon (Yep, vicious circle...). Just got to let the points build up.


Yeah, I dig those points also. I switch between the Prime card, and the Amazon Prime card (they really are different LOL).

Thanks for the rec, I will look into this! <wonders if they have an angle connector for this>

Edit: Apparently I will need this connector because the newest amp card for the DX300 (nuTube) tube amp will be SE only. One has to be prepared right?


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> I went with a GUCraftsman adapter from Amazon. GUCraftsman is also on AE, but the Amazon price is lower and I can build up Amazon awards points with purchases on my Amazon awards card. I used my awards card for the AE purchase, so should get a few awards points to spend on more stuff at Amazon (Yep, vicious circle...). Just got to let the points build up.
> 
> EDIT: I added the $10 discount code you found to my original post. Might as well spread the savings for the folks interested in buying the RW-3000.


I DID manage to find this angled adapter from ddHifi (which are also great adapters IMO) if you were interested. It is a bit ugly compared to their resin (see through) ones I have ordered before though. 

Undecided on which one I want, but I like the one you linked to quite a lot.


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> I DID manage to find this angled adapter from ddHifi (which are also great adapters IMO) if you were interested. It is a bit ugly compared to their resin (see through) ones I have ordered before though.
> 
> Undecided on which one I want, but I like the one you linked to quite a lot.


Yeah, that right angle adapter is solid, less moving parts for sure. Good to have choices.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Yeah, that right angle adapter is solid, less moving parts for sure. Good to have choices.


I like that it is so small (less add-ons in my pocket), but the wires in the ddHifi are hybrid OCC copper + SPC, where the GUCraftsman is pure silver. Desicions, desicions!


----------



## baskingshark

samandhi said:


> Ordered. Thank you for sharing!
> 
> BTW! If you are using Microsoft Edge (and its own coupon finder addon) for 2.5mm Bal ver. after store coupon of $20, minus the VAT (for me in the US), which is $18, then Edge found a $10 coupon *TS10* it is $272 (for me) total.
> 
> ...



Haha please let us know the million dollar question when you get the RW3000:
Is Yincrow RW3000 worth the extra $150 USD compared to the RW2000??


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> Haha please let us know the million dollar question when you get the RW3000:
> Is Yincrow RW3000 worth the extra $150 USD compared to the RW2000??


I will do that. I was waiting to pull the trigger to hear much the same, but when I saw them on sale(ish), my fingers wouldn't listen to my brain.


----------



## mt877 (Mar 12, 2022)

Out of curiosity I wanted to see what the price was after the "sale". The price jumped up approx. $56.00 per tier. The $20 store coupon was still there.
So it was definitely a "money saver" buying at the sale price vs regular street price. Does anyone know what the MSRP was when these launched? VS Audio lists the price as "US $570.00". Not sure if that is the true MSRP though.


> For anyone interested, found Yincrow RW-3000 on sale at AE + $20 store coupon. Coupon just about covers taxes / vat charge (depending on retail tax where you live).
> Right now about 15 hours left before end of sale.
> VS Audio Store: Yincrow RW 3000 Flagship
> $279.30 for 3.5SE version
> ...


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Out of curiosity I wanted to see what the price was after the "sale". The price jumped up approx. $56.00 per tier. The $20 store coupon was still there.
> So it was definitely a "money saver" buying at the sale price vs regular street price. Does anyone know what the MSRP was when these launched? VS Audio lists the price as "US $570.00". Not sure if that is the true MSRP though.


Don't quote me on this, but I think it was approximately $350(ish)?!


----------



## agonynine

samandhi said:


> Don't quote me on this, but I think it was approximately $350(ish)?!


They were £275 from VS on Ali on 11th December, which works out at approximately $365, if that helps.


----------



## limitlessbritt

Hey everyone I've taken a break with buds but I wanted to pick up another, are there any buds under $100 that have a lot of details on AliExpress?

I have the X6 already.
Thanks!


----------



## mt877

agonynine said:


> They were £275 from VS on Ali on 11th December, which works out at approximately $365, if that helps.


I guess the "US $570" for 3.5SE version might be typical AE marked up overpricing to make you feel like you're getting a bargain even if you bought at MSRP. So it pays to at least wait for a somewhat decent sale price combined with store coupons and discount codes if possible on "God-tier" earbuds.


----------



## ARES 35

Hi everyone been a lurker in Head-Fi for years but haven't registered until recently, I've almost read all the 4000+ pages in this thread throught the years I've been browsing Head-Fi. I've always liked the comfort / fit and form factor of old school style earbuds compared to IEMs and full size headphones, but haven't really listened to high quality earbuds until couple years ago, before that I've only listened to buds which were sadly lacking in sound quality but due to the comfort I kept them anyways. Thanks to all your contributions and great recommendations I've found out many new and good sounding earbuds, especially WoodyLuvr for his guides and huge archive of earbud information and also RikudouGoku for all the nice earbud reviews!

My favourite earbuds now are QianYun Qian39 and original Vido white colour earbuds and KLBBS which is the most expensive bud I got for 55€. I bought the Yincrow X6 before to not piss off the X6 Chuck Norris and his X6 gang LOL, but I must say I'm bit surprised since the X6 sound almost exactly the same as the white Vido though they have a bit more bass and slightly better build quality plus accesories which the Vidos don't have at all since it's just the buds with 1-pair of foam covers and nothing else, but the sound quality is the same you can just apply couple of DB of bass boost EQ to the white Vido and it sounds just like the Yincrow X6. The original Vido costs around 0.50-3€ (best value of any audio equipment I know of) while X6 is 15€ the price of the X6 is exactly 6 times of the original Vido if you buy the Vidos at 2.50€ so I quess thats why it's called X6 cos it's 6 times the price!


----------



## FranQL

ARES 35 said:


> Hi everyone been a lurker in Head-Fi for years but haven't registered until recently, I've almost read all the 4000+ pages in this thread throught the years I've been browsing Head-Fi. I've always liked the comfort / fit and form factor of old school style earbuds compared to IEMs and full size headphones, but haven't really listened to high quality earbuds until couple years ago, before that I've only listened to buds which were sadly lacking in sound quality but due to the comfort I kept them anyways. Thanks to all your contributions and great recommendations I've found out many new and good sounding earbuds, especially WoodyLuvr for his guides and huge archive of earbud information and also RikudouGoku for all the nice earbud reviews!
> 
> My favourite earbuds now are QianYun Qian39 and original Vido white colour earbuds and KLBBS which is the most expensive bud I got for 55€. I bought the Yincrow X6 before to not piss off the X6 Chuck Norris and his X6 gang LOL, but I must say I'm bit surprised since the X6 sound almost exactly the same as the white Vido though they have a bit more bass and slightly better build quality plus accesories which the Vidos don't have at all since it's just the buds with 1-pair of foam covers and nothing else, but the sound quality is the same you can just apply couple of DB of bass boost EQ to the white Vido and it sounds just like the Yincrow X6. The original Vido costs around 0.50-3€ (best value of any audio equipment I know of) while X6 is 15€ the price of the X6 is exactly 6 times of the original Vido if you buy the Vidos at 2.50€ so I quess thats why it's called X6 cos it's 6 times the price!


So, welcome!!!!! they gave you the t-shirt with the X6????


----------



## ARES 35

limitlessbritt said:


> Hey everyone I've taken a break with buds but I wanted to pick up another, are there any buds under $100 that have a lot of details on AliExpress?
> 
> I have the X6 already.
> Thanks!


Hey I would recommend the Ksearphones KLBBS (not KLBB version but K's Little Black Bells) and Toneking MrZ Tomahawks for around 50€ or NiceHCK DIY MX500 black silver for 15€ also Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis around 100€ (which means the green mamba LOL look at the colour of the earbuds and the name makes sense) and NiceHCK EBX21 which is on sale for 100€ (the "normal price" is 200€ but at that cost it's not good value) currently at NiceHCK Audio Store on AliExpress you can find all these earbuds for sale on that store and I've bought earbuds from there in the past it's a good store, but as always the shipping in AliExpress is not quick.

KLBBS is my favourite ones and all of them have pretty good detail retrieval for their price! Surely there's better earbuds out there but for the price of 50€ or 100€ or even 15€ (NiceHCK DIY MX500) the detail retrieval of these buds are great for the money, though all of these earbuds have less bass than the Yincrow X6 especially the Tomahawks are not for bassheads so don't expect the same amount of bass as the X6 give out.


----------



## ARES 35

FranQL said:


> So, welcome!!!!! they gave you the t-shirt with the X6????


Hi there! No sadly I didn't receive mine yet maybe I've angered the X6 Chuck Norris by liking and buying the cheaper Vidos instead of his Ferrari red coloured X6 buds, but at that price if they would include a X6 branded T-shirt in the package then I would gladly buy the 15€ X6 again! =)


----------



## calcatreppola

it's quite a long time since I last wrote here... and i'm reading very quickly... in fact I am enjoying my gear! 
so I would like to give a quick update. In the last three or so weeks many important thinks happened.
I received a Burson opamp to review on my xd-05 bal, and I finished the burn-in; 
I almost had 60-70 hours of burn-in for my used-bought Maria II. 
I got back my repaired ebx 21 and bought a pure silver cable for Maria II.

now I am enjoying some paradise corners... what a gorgeous eexperience!
I will review Bursons apart, but I must say they are very musical. True amps – compared to others I have tried – they magnify the character of the earbud /headphone/iem you use with them.
So now both Maria II with silver cable and ebx21 deserve time to spend with them: Maria II is now playing the stage it is praised for. High notes are clear, it catches them and work them out in total control. (The only problem that still remains is piano: it is painful to listen to it, and only to it! harmonics of mids are completely ruined. ANd eeverything else is only enjoyable! what a strange thing.) Rather than too bright I would say it is extremely transparent. No veil covers the music. You listen to notes only. Guitar is magical... symphonies are wonderful...
On the ebx21, that I use with the original cable, music is detailed and a bit veiled, just slightly smooth. 
Well. I like my gear. and I like music. 
I know this is a deeeeeep rabbit-hole, and of course I have other earbuds to use, even more that I want to try. Still I felt it necessary to share my happiness in lilstening music in now, because most of my joy is indebted to this forum. Thank you all!


----------



## chinmie

ARES 35 said:


> Hi everyone been a lurker in Head-Fi for years but haven't registered until recently, I've almost read all the 4000+ pages in this thread throught the years I've been browsing Head-Fi. I've always liked the comfort / fit and form factor of old school style earbuds compared to IEMs and full size headphones, but haven't really listened to high quality earbuds until couple years ago, before that I've only listened to buds which were sadly lacking in sound quality but due to the comfort I kept them anyways. Thanks to all your contributions and great recommendations I've found out many new and good sounding earbuds, especially WoodyLuvr for his guides and huge archive of earbud information and also RikudouGoku for all the nice earbud reviews!
> 
> My favourite earbuds now are QianYun Qian39 and original Vido white colour earbuds and KLBBS which is the most expensive bud I got for 55€. I bought the Yincrow X6 before to not piss off the X6 Chuck Norris and his X6 gang LOL, but I must say I'm bit surprised since the X6 sound almost exactly the same as the white Vido though they have a bit more bass and slightly better build quality plus accesories which the Vidos don't have at all since it's just the buds with 1-pair of foam covers and nothing else, but the sound quality is the same you can just apply couple of DB of bass boost EQ to the white Vido and it sounds just like the Yincrow X6. The original Vido costs around 0.50-3€ (best value of any audio equipment I know of) while X6 is 15€ the price of the X6 is exactly 6 times of the original Vido if you buy the Vidos at 2.50€ so I quess thats why it's called X6 cos it's 6 times the price!



the X6 didn't catch much wave in my country, at least not as much as recabled vidos..might be because they sound typically the same, but the recabled vidos have a bit more of that "DIY pride" vibe. Even most well known builders at least would have their own version of vido mod


----------



## 1clearhead

limitlessbritt said:


> Hey everyone I've taken a break with buds but I wanted to pick up another, are there any buds under $100 that have a lot of details on AliExpress?
> 
> I have the X6 already.
> Thanks!


If you want a more airy and transparent detailed sound, just purchase the Yincrow RW-9, which is the next step up from the X6. This is a "no brainer". Enjoy!

-Clear


----------



## RikudouGoku

1clearhead said:


> If you want a more airy and transparent detailed sound, just purchase the Yincrow RW-9, which is the next step up from the X6. This is a "no brainer". Enjoy!
> 
> -Clear


RW-9 is more v-shaped and isnt that similar to the X6, IMO the X6 is tuned better, the RW-9 sounds a bit more technical but it is brighter so it has the tonality advantage.

(FYI: I sold my RW-9, still got the X6.)


----------



## 1clearhead

RikudouGoku said:


> RW-9 is more v-shaped and isnt that similar to the X6, IMO the X6 is tuned better, the RW-9 sounds a bit *more technical but it is brighter so it has the tonality advantage.*
> 
> (FYI: I sold my RW-9, still got the X6.)


I know that they are not similar, and that's okay. But, like you said, and we both agree with that it is more technical and brighter and has the tonality advantage. So, it's okay to be opinionated, since 'limitlessbritt' is looking for a different bud with more details.
PS. I still have both the X6 and the RW-9, which I will never sell. Cheers! 

-Clear


----------



## cqtek

Hello to all.

Here is my humble opinion on the Rose Martini. I would like to tell you that I liked them very much.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/rose-martini.25751/reviews#review-28134




Best regards.


----------



## JdeFalconr

OK folks I figure if I can't find an answer here to my IEM woes it'll never happen. My issue is fit: my ears are rather oddly shaped, aparently, and it's exceptionally tough to find tips that seal well and stay put. Stock eartips have never fit. The *only* ones that seal are the largest - diameter Comply ones (I researched) and even those fall out or need adjustment after maybe 15-30ish minutes. 

Besides custom-molded ones does anyone know of some exceptionally large tips they can recommend? As I recall Etymotic makes some really, really big yellow ones, maybe I should just splurge on some Etys. I'd love to get to experience all of the great IEMs that are out there but of they don't fit right then there's not much point.


----------



## jao29

limitlessbritt said:


> Hey everyone I've taken a break with buds but I wanted to pick up another, are there any buds under $100 that have a lot of details on AliExpress?
> 
> I have the X6 already.
> Thanks!


You should try the Headroom MS16.


----------



## samandhi (Mar 14, 2022)

JdeFalconr said:


> OK folks I figure if I can't find an answer here to my IEM woes it'll never happen. My issue is fit: my ears are rather oddly shaped, aparently, and it's exceptionally tough to find tips that seal well and stay put. Stock eartips have never fit. The *only* ones that seal are the largest - diameter Comply ones (I researched) and even those fall out or need adjustment after maybe 15-30ish minutes.
> 
> Besides custom-molded ones does anyone know of some exceptionally large tips they can recommend? As I recall Etymotic makes some really, really big yellow ones, maybe I should just splurge on some Etys. I'd love to get to experience all of the great IEMs that are out there but of they don't fit right then there's not much point.


I'm sorry, and afraid you won't find much help here. This thread is for classic (flathead) earbuds, not IEMs.

Edit: Maybe consider starting a new thread?!


----------



## pr0b3r

Any idea which Sony model are these buds? I recabled them and replaced the driver covers since they're pretty worned out already. The stock covers are like the typical teardrop-shaped rubber which covers almost half of the mesh. I can't seem to achieve more bass from these, but they're suprisingly well detailed and expansive in staging. I wonder if the stock sound really has a very lean bass response.


----------



## Kento6395

My earbuds The Siemens Driver + Nordost blue haven. I think it's my best Earbuds mod.


----------



## baskingshark

JdeFalconr said:


> OK folks I figure if I can't find an answer here to my IEM woes it'll never happen. My issue is fit: my ears are rather oddly shaped, aparently, and it's exceptionally tough to find tips that seal well and stay put. Stock eartips have never fit. The *only* ones that seal are the largest - diameter Comply ones (I researched) and even those fall out or need adjustment after maybe 15-30ish minutes.
> 
> Besides custom-molded ones does anyone know of some exceptionally large tips they can recommend? As I recall Etymotic makes some really, really big yellow ones, maybe I should just splurge on some Etys. I'd love to get to experience all of the great IEMs that are out there but of they don't fit right then there's not much point.



This is the earbuds thread, and actually earbuds may potentially be even more of a pain to fit than IEMs, as they come in multiple shell shapes! Check out this post https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3418#post-16078122 (contributed mostly by our esteemed @WoodyLuvr and @furyossa) on the various earbud shapes.


Anyways for IEMs, you can consider going for custom IEMs (pricey though, and cannot resell them), but custom IEMs usually give great isolation and fit. Or another less common area is that of custom eartips. So these eartips are made from a mould and they may be transferrable to another IEM with the same nozzle diameter; they are a bit pricey also, but not as costly as custom IEMs.


----------



## RikudouGoku

JdeFalconr said:


> OK folks I figure if I can't find an answer here to my IEM woes it'll never happen. My issue is fit: my ears are rather oddly shaped, aparently, and it's exceptionally tough to find tips that seal well and stay put. Stock eartips have never fit. The *only* ones that seal are the largest - diameter Comply ones (I researched) and even those fall out or need adjustment after maybe 15-30ish minutes.
> 
> Besides custom-molded ones does anyone know of some exceptionally large tips they can recommend? As I recall Etymotic makes some really, really big yellow ones, maybe I should just splurge on some Etys. I'd love to get to experience all of the great IEMs that are out there but of they don't fit right then there's not much point.


Wrong thread, check this one: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/best-iem-tips.626895/

Check out the Azla Sedna tips (regular, crystals and xelastecs).


----------



## JdeFalconr

Thanks everyone, sorry for not reading more carefully and for your helpful responses anyway.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

pr0b3r said:


> Any idea which Sony model are these buds? I recabled them and replaced the driver covers since they're pretty worned out already. The stock covers are like the typical teardrop-shaped rubber which covers almost half of the mesh. I can't seem to achieve more bass from these, but they're suprisingly well detailed and expansive in staging. I wonder if the stock sound really has a very lean bass response.


That is the *2007 Sony Walkman Player NWZ-A81x* (A815/6/8 depending on the memory capacity) and they were bundled with Sony IEM earbuds and not flathead earbuds. Those flatheads appear to be an earlier model from mid-1990s to early-2000s.


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Well, after going through my entire bud collection. Here are the update ranks:
> 
> Moondrop Nameless: C+ to B-
> 
> ...


thx for the iris ce recommendation. I'll hunt one down.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> thx for the iris ce recommendation. I'll hunt one down.


Do be aware that it seems that Faaeal QC isnt that good, from what others have told me at least...


----------



## pr0b3r

WoodyLuvr said:


> That is the *2007 Sony Walkman Player NWZ-A81x* (A815/6/8 depending on the memory capacity) and they were bundled with Sony IEM earbuds and not flathead earbuds. Those flatheads appear to be an earlier model from mid-1990s to early-2000s.


Yes, that player is an A818 that I got a while back from a thrift store. I got the earbuds the same way but at a later date. Anyway, I can't squeeze much anymore from those. I guess its stock signature isn't that much bassy at all. I'll just set them aside for collection. Thanks, I appreciate the response.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Smabat has launched a new earbud with MMCX called the *M Pro* which they consider to be a mini version of their Super One S-Class Earbud.

*2022 - Smabat M Pro (150Ω; Linear Labyrinth-Maze Acoustics)*​​

 


*Svara - Smabat (Shenzhen Smabat Technology Co., Ltd.) Model Timeline*


----------



## 4ceratops

I became the pleasantly surprised owner of my first earbuds: the NiceHCK EB2S. (My collection so far contained only IEMs). I'd ask the more experienced for some recommendations on even better earbuds in the under $100 price range. Thanks in advance for any reply.


----------



## Sam L

4ceratops said:


> I became the pleasantly surprised owner of my first earbuds: the NiceHCK EB2S. (My collection so far contained only IEMs). I'd ask the more experienced for some recommendations on even better earbuds in the under $100 price range. Thanks in advance for any reply.


paging @WoodyLuvr @RikudouGoku


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sam L said:


> paging @WoodyLuvr @RikudouGoku


well, we need more info on what they like in terms of sound preferences, what libraries they got and what source they use before anyone can give a good rec.


----------



## captione

WoodyLuvr said:


> Smabat has launched a new earbud with MMCX called the *M Pro* which they consider to be a mini version of their Super One S-Class Earbud.
> 
> *2022 - Smabat M Pro (150Ω; Linear Labyrinth-Maze Acoustics)*​​ ​
> *Svara - Smabat (Shenzhen Smabat Technology Co., Ltd.) Model Timeline*


There's a bit of discrepancy on the info regarding the impedance, the images on the marketing says 40ohms while the site states that it's 150ohms


----------



## 4ceratops

RikudouGoku said:


> well, we need more info on what they like in terms of sound preferences, what libraries they got and what source they use before anyone can give a good rec.


So I prefer the sound to be gently warm with an organic timbre. In the budget IEM category, I'm a fan of the Moondrop Aria. What I can't stand is the sibilance,  clinical coolness and unnatural coloration of the mids. As for musical genres, I listen to everything because music is only divided into good and bad. If I had to name something though, it's most often jazz, and other production based on acoustic instruments and vocals. As for the source, the Shanling M3X will have the weakest amplification. So that's about it. Thanks in advance for the recommendations.


----------



## RikudouGoku

4ceratops said:


> So I prefer the sound to be gently warm with an organic timbre. In the budget IEM category, I'm a fan of the Moondrop Aria. What I can't stand is the sibilance,  clinical coolness and unnatural coloration of the mids. As for musical genres, I listen to everything because music is only divided into good and bad. If I had to name something though, it's most often jazz, and other production based on acoustic instruments and vocals. As for the source, the Shanling M3X will have the weakest amplification. So that's about it. Thanks in advance for the recommendations.


Faaeal Iris 2.0


----------



## Sam L

RikudouGoku said:


> Faaeal Iris 2.0


Agreed! just got in my iris 2.0, along with the mangird tea 2. The tea 2's were ordered weeks ago and just happened to arrive the same day as the Iris 2.0 (which came from amazon and arrived within 2 days.)

Iris takes eq well, but doesn't need it. No egregious mid bass bleed. Cable is decent (think 1/2 step up from kz/crn iems). Many cables in this price point are horrid. The Tea 2 are fantastic but I still have the iris in my ears, so that should say something.


----------



## jao29

RikudouGoku said:


> RW-9 is more v-shaped and isnt that similar to the X6, IMO the X6 is tuned better, the RW-9 sounds a bit more technical but it is brighter so it has the tonality advantage.





RikudouGoku said:


> (FYI: I sold my RW-9, still got the X6.)


I went the opposite route. Sold all of my X6, kept my Rw-9 because it does have a different sound quality than the X6.

The Willsound mkii makes the X6 obsolete imo. But, it is alot more expensive.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

captione said:


> There's a bit of discrepancy on the info regarding the impedance, the images on the marketing says 40ohms while the site states that it's 150ohms


Good catch there, I missed that! They'll surely correct it here shortly and I'll update as accordingly.


----------



## pr0b3r

Sharing my recabled Japanese buds. Originally have a J-cable as stock. I believe this is in the same family of buds from JVC/Victor. Sounds W-shaped, having a punchy midbass, immediately noticeable subbass extension, pronounced vocals, and enough treble sparkle that is not elevated nor veiled. Soundstage width and height is above average as well. This is aimed at those looking for fun and musical sound, not quite for analytical and lean sounding lovers, but that's not saying the details are lacking.


----------



## 4ceratops

RikudouGoku said:


> Faaeal Iris 2.0


First of all, thank you for your willingness to answer. I will definitely try these earbuds.
And one additional question: If you had to personally pick your favorite earbuds under $100 (available on Ali), which would they be?


----------



## RikudouGoku

4ceratops said:


> And one additional question: If you had to personally pick your favorite earbuds under $100 (available on Ali), which would they be?


I cant rec any branded buds over 20 usd on ali anymore...they are all overpriced and dissapointing since I discovered DIY....


----------



## syazwaned

RikudouGoku said:


> I cant rec any branded buds over 20 usd on ali anymore...they are all overpriced and dissapointing since I discovered DIY....


My thoughts exactly after listening to Malaysian own DIY earbuds, Budubuds v1. 

Budubuds sound neutral with rumbly bass. Priced at 20 usd, but in my opinion sound on par with K LBBs.


----------



## samandhi

4ceratops said:


> First of all, thank you for your willingness to answer. I will definitely try these earbuds.
> And one additional question: If you had to personally pick your favorite earbuds under $100 (available on Ali), which would they be?


Smabat M2s Pro for me.


----------



## syazwaned

samandhi said:


> Smabat M2s Pro for me.


True and for 100 usd you can get 2 additonal driver


----------



## samandhi

syazwaned said:


> True and for 100 usd you can get 2 additonal driver


Ah, good point!


----------



## 4ceratops

Thanks to everyone for the opinions and recommendations. If you don't mind hardwired cables, I recommend the NiceHCK EB2s to your attention, they are great. I bought them based on the following review and fully agree with it.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-eb2s.25729/reviews#review-28052


----------



## 4ceratops

RikudouGoku said:


> I cant rec any branded buds over 20 usd on ali anymore...they are all overpriced and dissapointing since I discovered DIY....


Thanks again, I ordered the Faaeal Iris 2.0 and the Yincrow X6 as well based on your review. I have no idea what to expect from such cheap earbuds, so the surprise can only be positive. Have a nice day and I'll be sure to share my experiences.


----------



## samandhi

4ceratops said:


> Thanks to everyone for the opinions and recommendations. If you don't mind hardwired cables, I recommend the NiceHCK EB2s to your attention, they are great. I bought them based on the following review and fully agree with it.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-eb2s.25729/reviews#review-28052


I got mine from Aliexpress during a mystery-bag event. It was something like $16 IIRC. I DO like them a lot. They are great daily beaters.


----------



## jeejack

RikudouGoku said:


> I cant rec any branded buds over 20 usd on ali anymore...they are all overpriced and dissapointing since I discovered DIY....


Well said ! We hope you don't act like them. Buy for $ 5 and sell for $ 50 -$ 100


----------



## RikudouGoku

jeejack said:


> Well said ! We hope you don't act like them. Buy for $ 5 and sell for $ 50 -$ 100


I will have them at those prices. My R/D cost is at over 1000 usd now....


----------



## FranQL

RikudouGoku said:


> I will have them at those prices. My R/D cost is at over 1000 usd now....



No, what you mean is that you have spent €1000 on drivers, cables and materials to produce the buds, that is not R&D.


----------



## furyossa (Mar 17, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> I will have them at those prices. My R/D cost is at over 1000 usd now....


You work for NASA now?


----------



## jeejack

FranQL said:


> No, what you mean is that you have spent €1000 on drivers, cables and materials to produce the buds, that is not R&D.


Exactly


----------



## RikudouGoku

FranQL said:


> No, what you mean is that you have spent €1000 on drivers, cables and materials to produce the buds, that is not R&D.


spending money on different drivers to try to get the sound I want.

Either way, it seems you aint happy about this so I aint commenting on this anymore.


----------



## FranQL (Mar 17, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> spending money on different drivers to try to get the sound I want.
> 
> Either way, it seems you aint happy about this so I aint commenting on this anymore.



Not much less, you can comment freely what you want, I only mentioned R&D thinking about the amount of money that I have spent between soldering iron (tin, copper, support, flux, etc), dremmel, tools, and I thought of €1000 and I was amazed, I thought, everything has been spent on drivers and cables.....

But you can sell your work for the price you consider and your fellow hobbyists can pay it if it's worth it for them, of course, don't take it the wrong way.... I wish the best for your *U P G R A D E S. *


----------



## emusic13

Could be worse though. Theres some diyer selling buds for $200+ Maybe they work for NASA


----------



## mt877

Came home today and this was delivered to my front door... some things are worth shelling out for.


----------



## Kento6395

mt877 said:


> Came home today and this was delivered to my front door... some things are worth shelling out for.


I also like its sound, I have both 3.5mm and 2.5mm ,that it is a very high resolution earbuds


----------



## mt877 (Mar 17, 2022)

Kento6395 said:


> I also like its sound, I have both 3.5mm and 2.5mm ,that it is a very high resolution earbuds


I decided to go for the 4.4Bal since I can use a 4.4Bal to 3.5SE adapter if needed. Nice bass that doesn't muddy up the mids or treble. Very outstanding and worthy of the God-tier ranking.

Edit: Thinking about it, what you get in terms of sound and build quality they're inexpensive compared to the cost of some mega-buck IEMs with comparable sound and build quality.


----------



## rprodrigues

Kento6395 said:


> I also like its sound, I have both 3.5mm and 2.5mm ,that it is a very high resolution earbuds


Two sets?

You like them indeed!


----------



## samandhi

RikudouGoku said:


> I will have them at those prices. My R/D cost is at over 1000 usd now....


I really don't mean to sound a "negative Nelly", but you JUST told someone that you don't rec anything on Aliexpress (under $100) because they are overpriced, but then you tell us you will be charging much the same for an upgrade, rather than a product made from scratch.

I support you, but I think you might be starting off in the wrong way. Just IMHO. I DO wish you luck with your endeavor!


----------



## Kento6395

rprodrigues said:


> Two sets?
> 
> You like them indeed!


yes i like it 😍😍


----------



## Kento6395

mt877 said:


> I decided to go for the 4.4Bal since I can use a 4.4Bal to 3.5SE adapter if needed. Nice bass that doesn't muddy up the mids or treble. Very outstanding and worthy of the God-tier ranking.
> 
> Edit: Thinking about it, what you get in terms of sound and build quality they're inexpensive compared to the cost of some mega-buck IEMs with comparable sound and build quality.


I think the 3.5 SE has very nice bass and pretty good mids and I haven't tried 4.4 balance, not sure if 4.4 balance is the original factory adapter.


----------



## jogawag

rprodrigues said:


> Two sets?
> 
> You like them indeed!


Surely he doesn't want to be told by you who ordered 4 pairs of driver at once, which you haven't listened to yet.


----------



## tgx78

DSP on Plenue 2 makes earbuds sound amazingly full.


----------



## mochill

Kento6395 said:


> My earbuds The Siemens Driver + Nordost blue haven. I think it's my best Earbuds mod.


How much


----------



## mt877 (Mar 17, 2022)

Kento6395 said:


> I think the 3.5 SE has very nice bass and pretty good mids and I haven't tried 4.4 balance, not sure if 4.4 balance is the original factory adapter.


They were sold out at the Shozy store. I bought them from Penon Audio instead. They only had 3.5SE and 4.4Bal, so I went for the 4.4. Not sure if Penon offers the 4.4 as an update or if they get them from Shozy with 4.4. Someone more knowledgeable will have to answer that. I don't think the 4.4 will sound any different than the 2.5.


----------



## rprodrigues

jogawag said:


> Surely he doesn't want to be told by you who ordered 4 pairs of driver at once, which you haven't listened to yet.



I do trust the guy who suggested to me those drivers...


----------



## Ronion (Mar 18, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> I will have them at those prices. My R/D cost is at over 1000 usd now....


Do you mean R&D?  What are you paying yourself per hour?  If you don’t mind me asking.  A PhD in acoustics makes $50/hr.  That’s a lot of schooling!  I mean you can pay yourself what you want, but I think you need to have more realistic expectations.  R&D is free at this point particularly considering you don’t have a proper measurement rig or a strong foundation in earbud acoustics and psychoacoustics.  You can build a rig for much less that $50.  What did Steve Jobs (or name your tech champion) pay himself when he was doing R&D in his garage?  You want to do something great, you do it for the love of what you are doing.  The rewards will come if you do well.  All those tech guys had objective metrics that verified their greatness.  Be realistic and don’t rely on hype.  Rely on your knowledge, dexterity and engineering skills.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> They were sold out at the Shozy store. I bought them from Penon Audio instead. They only had 3.5SE and 4.4Bal, so I went for the 4.4. Not sure if Penon offers the 4.4 as an update or if they get them from Shozy with 4.4. Someone more knowledgeable will have to answer that. I don't think the 4.4 will sound any different than the 2.5.


They should be the exact same sound. They are both balanced. Most sources don't have both on the same device, but some do, and I can say from experience with my DX300 (which does have both 4.4mm and 2.5mm balanced) the head gear that I tested it with does indeed sound the same, it is just a different size of balanced out connector.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 18, 2022)

mt877 said:


> Came home today and this was delivered to my front door... some things are worth shelling out for.





Kento6395 said:


> I also like its sound, I have both 3.5mm and 2.5mm ,that it is a very high resolution earbuds





mt877 said:


> I decided to go for the 4.4Bal since I can use a 4.4Bal to 3.5SE adapter if needed. Nice bass that doesn't muddy up the mids or treble. Very outstanding and worthy of the God-tier ranking.
> 
> Edit: Thinking about it, what you get in terms of sound and build quality they're inexpensive compared to the cost of some mega-buck IEMs with comparable sound and build quality.


Awesome! Thanks for sharing all those pics. The *Shozy 大黑 Big Black (BK) Stardust (16Ω)* is indeed a splendid classic god-tier bud that I was too happy to see "reissued" again for all (more) to enjoy!


----------



## MelodyMood

SMABAT Cancelled my order for M0 Driver + Shell. Reason they gave is "Due to the epidemic situation, express delivery cannot be transported.". 
Is there any suggestion for good detailed earbuds, especially MMCX. Looking for really detailed sound but not harsh and with some bass and sub-bass. I was considering EB2S but just noticed that it does not has Straight Plug which I am preferring. How is JCALLY EP Series (which one is the best) or anything else? Thanks.


----------



## jeejack

MelodyMood said:


> SMABAT Cancelled my order for M0 Driver + Shell. Reason they gave is "Due to the epidemic situation, express delivery cannot be transported.".
> Is there any suggestion for good detailed earbuds, especially MMCX. Looking for really detailed sound but not harsh and with some bass and sub-bass. I was considering EB2S but just noticed that it does not has Straight Plug which I am preferring. How is JCALLY EP Series (which one is the best) or anything else? Thanks.


If you order from China you will suffer the same. Wait for it to come out of the lockdown


----------



## Kento6395

mochill said:


> How much


The driver costs about $50. But the cable costs about $150 😂😂


----------



## Kento6395

WoodyLuvr said:


> Awesome! Thanks for sharing all those pics. The *Shozy 大黑 Big Black (BK) Stardust (16Ω)* is indeed a splendid classic god-tier bud that I was too happy to see "reissued" again for all (more) to enjoy!


With pleasure , I think BK is an earbud that should be kept forever like PK1, Zen V2 ,Mx 985


----------



## RikudouGoku

Ronion said:


> Do you mean R&D?  What are you paying yourself per hour?  If you don’t mind me asking.  A PhD in acoustics makes $50/hr.  That’s a lot of schooling!  I mean you can pay yourself what you want, but I think you need to have more realistic expectations.  R&D is free at this point particularly considering you don’t have a proper measurement rig or a strong foundation in earbud acoustics and psychoacoustics.  You can build a rig for much less that $50.  What did Steve Jobs (or name your tech champion) pay himself when he was doing R&D in his garage?  You want to do something great, you do it for the love of what you are doing.  The rewards will come if you do well.  All those tech guys had objective metrics that verified their greatness.  Be realistic and don’t rely on hype.  Rely on your knowledge, dexterity and engineering skills.


I dont pay myself anything at this stage, im only losing money right now in the hopes that I get it back when I sell them. I am considering upgrading my measuring rig as well but that be a bit later.


----------



## mt877

RikudouGoku said:


> I dont pay myself anything at this stage, im only losing money right now in the hopes that I get it back when I sell them. I am considering upgrading my measuring rig as well but that be a bit later.


Let your passion and dedication to craft drive your development to exceed expectations of those around you and the money will come. As a boutique one man operation it should be expected that you're feeling costs out of pocket versus some established company which has capital and a team of product design / engineering staff. But remember, even the established companies often started with just one or two people that had a vision and the passion to develop a product or service that they thought would fill a need by many and were successful. Be passionate, be dedicated and bring us some buds that everyone can be proud to own.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Let your passion and dedication to craft drive your development to exceed expectations of those around you and the money will come. As a boutique one man operation it should be expected that you're feeling costs out of pocket versus some established company which has capital and a team of product design / engineering staff. But remember, even the established companies often started with just one or two people that had a vision and the passion to develop a product or service that they thought would fill a need by many and were successful. Be passionate, be dedicated and bring us some buds that everyone can be proud to own.


Well said!


----------



## FranQL (Mar 18, 2022)

After a while I managed to adjust ST20 to my liking and now with a great sound (IMO), highlight the incredible and unjustifiable fact that I found the right driver placed inverted both in the shell and in the faceplate (in short, the sound of the right side would always be different from the left side, unfortunately), it is a very serious quality control error for a bud with a sale price of €135.

I put a photo of the beautiful 50 Ohm LCP driver that is being used in this Smabat model.


----------



## Carrow

hit me up if you'd like some ridiculous deals on earbuds I'm selling; only offering them to members of this thread but I need to get this stuff moved on. bonus buds, steep discounts, the lot.


----------



## Ronion

RikudouGoku said:


> I dont pay myself anything at this stage, im only losing money right now in the hopes that I get it back when I sell them. I am considering upgrading my measuring rig as well but that be a bit later.


That’s pretty much how it goes for the first couple years if you‘re looking to do something exceptional.  Even people who are utterly geniuses take several years.  Just look at Axel Grell, Edgar Villchur, Oskar Heil, Paul W. klipsch, etc…. That list could go on and on.  None of these guys set the world on fire in a couple weeks.


----------



## mochill

Kento6395 said:


> With pleasure , I think BK is an earbud that should be kept forever like PK1, Zen V2 ,Mx 985


Have all 4


----------



## Charlyro222

Just ordered new Tofino from @tgx78, a beautiful earbuds, Will taste their tunning when arrives.


----------



## emusic13

Charlyro222 said:


> Just ordered new Tofino from @tgx78, a beautiful earbuds, Will taste their tunning when arrives.


I'm interested in knowing more!


----------



## cqtek

Hello earbuds buddies.

Here is my humble opinion on the NiceHCK EB2S.  

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-eb2s.25729/reviews#review-28192


----------



## forestitalia (Mar 20, 2022)

FranQL said:


> After a while I managed to adjust ST20 to my liking and now with a great sound (IMO), highlight the incredible and unjustifiable fact that I found the right driver placed inverted both in the shell and in the faceplate (in short, the sound of the right side would always be different from the left side, unfortunately), it is a very serious quality control error for a bud with a sale price of €135.
> 
> I put a photo of the beautiful 50 Ohm LCP driver that is being used in this Smabat model.


How a driver inverted? you mean the polarity or the physical side of the driver?
I had a pair lately, I think both sides sound the same ...I hope.


----------



## FranQL (Mar 20, 2022)

forestitalia said:


> How a driver inverted? you mean the polarity or the physical side of the driver?
> I had a pair lately, I think both sides sound the same ...I hope.


No, on the left side the Voice Coil is oriented towards the vent next to the MMCX connector and the right side was oriented towards the lower side of the shell, that is, where there is no vent. Inevitably, the right side could not sound the same as the left. So in listening I constantly noticed that something was not right.

It is very easy to see it, the faceplate has a notch and it only fits in a single position, that is, if you open it and each driver points in one direction... there is an imbalance.

I hope it's just a quality control error on my unit.


----------



## samandhi

FranQL said:


> No, on the left side the Voice Coil is oriented towards the vent next to the MMCX connector and the right side was oriented towards the lower side of the shell, that is, where there is no vent. Inevitably, the right side could not sound the same as the left. So in listening I constantly noticed that something was not right.
> 
> It is very easy to see it, the faceplate has a notch and it only fits in a single position, that is, if you open it and each driver points in one direction... there is an imbalance.
> 
> I hope it's just a quality control error on my unit.


IMO that is not really forgivable; especially for the cost. I could maybe see that on some $10 buds, but something that is supposed to be higher-end... nope! And isn't this the second or third time you have had silly QC issues like this? Amazing!

And let's be honest, if you hadn't taken it apart, you probably would have contacted them, they would have argued with you, and told you that you were a gangster trying to stir up trouble, or something like that.  And you would either get a new set (with very much inconvenience because you would have to pay to ship them back, unfairly I might add), or they would deny there was an issue, and send you the old ones back as-is. 

And I don't know about how much it might cost you, but from my house, it costs quite a bit (considering) to ship it to China. With Chi-Fi taking over, their warranty policies are also taking over. This means that those times of getting an RMA (for instance) are over. This causes a major problem because you (Joe Consumer) can't afford to have even one bad unit, or you are investing more money than even the initial cost; not to mention the time you spend hassling with the whole affair. 

I am having a similar issue right now with my Chaconne. I emailed Moondrop about an imbalance in one bud, in which they replied to contact the initial seller (which was Shenzhen Audio via Amazon). I did, but that was 3 weeks ago tomorrow with 0 replies. I will be contacting Moondrop again tomorrow about the situation, but I fear there will be more hassle involved before it is over, and I don't think I should have to work so hard to have SOMEONE fix what wasn't my fault to begin with. 

This is why I NORMALLY buy from Amazon if I can. Their return policy is unequalled. In this case though, too much time has gone by before the problem developed, and now I need to rely on the seller for after service support (or the lack thereof).


----------



## FranQL

samandhi said:


> IMO that is not really forgivable; especially for the cost. I could maybe see that on some $10 buds, but something that is supposed to be higher-end... nope! And isn't this the second or third time you have had silly QC issues like this? Amazing!
> 
> And let's be honest, if you hadn't taken it apart, you probably would have contacted them, they would have argued with you, and told you that you were a gangster trying to stir up trouble, or something like that.  And you would either get a new set (with very much inconvenience because you would have to pay to ship them back, unfairly I might add), or they would deny there was an issue, and send you the old ones back as-is.
> 
> ...



If I hadn't disassembled it or simply didn't know anything about DIY, I would simply think that this is how they should sound, nothing more, and I would have settled for the initial sound with shrill highs, qualifying it as a bad buy. So sad.

Also in the first settings I assumed that the two shell and drivers would be correctly mirrored, and I didn't realize it, it was based on not finding the sound setting for me when I looked for the reason.

Never, not even in the buttons for less than €10 did I find the controllers placed differently. In fact I doubt that it is good for hearing health if the sound from each side is different.


----------



## samandhi (Mar 20, 2022)

FranQL said:


> If I hadn't disassembled it or simply didn't know anything about DIY, I would simply think that this is how they should sound, nothing more, and I would have settled for the initial sound with shrill highs, qualifying it as a bad buy. So sad.
> 
> Also in the first settings I assumed that the two shell and drivers would be correctly mirrored, and I didn't realize it, it was based on not finding the sound setting for me when I looked for the reason.
> 
> Never, not even in the buttons for less than €10 did I find the controllers placed differently. In fact I doubt that it is good for hearing health if the sound from each side is different.


Then it is good thing that you ARE a DIYer, I would say.  I would not have caught it. I don't think I would have thought to take them apart to investigate the problem to be honest. Good catch either way! 

Edit: Is it something that you can fix yourself? If so, let us know how much different they are after doing so (I for one would be interested to know)?!


----------



## RikudouGoku

samandhi said:


> IMO that is not really forgivable; especially for the cost. I could maybe see that on some $10 buds, but something that is supposed to be higher-end... nope! And isn't this the second or third time you have had silly QC issues like this? Amazing!
> 
> And let's be honest, if you hadn't taken it apart, you probably would have contacted them, they would have argued with you, and told you that you were a gangster trying to stir up trouble, or something like that.  And you would either get a new set (with very much inconvenience because you would have to pay to ship them back, unfairly I might add), or they would deny there was an issue, and send you the old ones back as-is.
> 
> ...


The timing lol.



You might want to jump into the official Shenzhenaudio discord server and complain there, maybe they will actually help you that way...
https://discord.gg/w74fCzhSVe


----------



## FranQL

samandhi said:


> Then it is good thing that you ARE a DIYer, I would say.  I would not have caught it. I don't think I would have thought to take them apart to investigate the problem to be honest. Good catch either way!
> 
> Edit: Is it something that you can fix yourself? If so, let us know how much different they are after doing so (I for one would be interested to know)?!



Yes, I put the driver correctly in the faceplate and in the shell, and now the sound is great, but I changed the tuning completely, it has nothing to do with the original setting


----------



## samandhi

RikudouGoku said:


> The timing lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice! Thanks for sharing the vid (so true). Others might not think so, but I view (and always have viewed) this behavior as a big deal, and if not stopped, will only continue; not only that but it will get worse when companies get so emboldened that they do away with service altogether (for example). 

Thanks also for the Discord link. I will check it out, though I am not sure I am too interested in dealing with them at this point, though I probably will this time to get this issue fixed. I think they (both companies) have all but ruined my future loyalty to the brand or store (even though I love the overall product itself).  

I actually would have rather dealt with Moondrop directly because then I would only have to pay to ship it somewhere here in the US, rather than China (again, at my expense). Since Shenzhen Audio is an authorized dealer, this should not have been an issue to begin with IMO.


----------



## RikudouGoku

samandhi said:


> I actually would have rather dealt with Moondrop directly because then I would only have to pay to ship it somewhere here in the US, rather than China (again, at my expense). Since Shenzhen Audio is an authorized dealer, this should not have been an issue to begin with IMO.


I believe some of Moondrop´s reps (and their boss) are actually in that server.


----------



## syazwaned

Hi all, will earbuds benefit from tube amp?


----------



## mt877 (Mar 20, 2022)

syazwaned said:


> Hi all, will earbuds benefit from tube amp?


Earbuds can benefit connected to a tube amp, but it really is a matter of synergy between the particular earbuds and the tube amp. The same applies for IEMs, headphones as well. There is also certain synergy with earbuds, IEMs and headphones when connected to solid state DAP and amps. Also I would say that it depends on you as well. Do you already have a tube amp for your open air listening pleasure? If you do then you know how a tube amp combined with certain speakers plus room acoustics and speaker placement can affect your listening pleasure. If you mention what earbuds and what tube amp you are interesting in, then hopefully someone here can give you better feedback.


----------



## syazwaned

mt877 said:


> Earbuds can benefit connected to a tube amp, but it really is a matter of synergy between the particular earbuds and the tube amp. The same applies for IEMs, headphones as well. There is also certain synergy with earbuds, IEMs and headphones when connected to solid state DAP and amps. Also I would say that it depends on you as well. Do you already have a tube amp for your open air listening pleasure? If you do then you know how a tube amp combined with certain speakers plus room acoustics and speaker placement can affect your listening pleasure. If you mention what earbuds and what tube amp you are interesting in, then hopefully someone here can give you better feedback.


Thanks for the reply friend.

I would like to maintain my audio setup as simple as possible. Currently I have Apogee Groove, Qudelix 5k, and some earbuds and IEM. Right now I have Olina, er2se, Timeless as IEM, Chaconne, LBBS, M2s Pro, Monk SM as earbuds. Just wonder a small portable tube like Little Bear B4-X would elevate my listening experience.


----------



## samandhi

syazwaned said:


> Thanks for the reply friend.
> 
> I would like to maintain my audio setup as simple as possible. Currently I have Apogee Groove, Qudelix 5k, and some earbuds and IEM. Right now I have Olina, er2se, Timeless as IEM, Chaconne, LBBS, M2s Pro, Monk SM as earbuds. Just wonder a small portable tube like Little Bear B4-X would elevate my listening experience.


I have heard that the Little Bear isn't that great unless you change from the stock opamps. Though I can't confirm this, as I have not heard it personally. YMMV!


----------



## mt877 (Mar 21, 2022)

syazwaned said:


> Thanks for the reply friend.
> 
> I would like to maintain my audio setup as simple as possible. Currently I have Apogee Groove, Qudelix 5k, and some earbuds and IEM. Right now I have Olina, er2se, Timeless as IEM, Chaconne, LBBS, M2s Pro, Monk SM as earbuds. Just wonder a small portable tube like Little Bear B4-X would elevate my listening experience.


The Little Bear B4-X is a hybrid tube / SS amp. The tubes are not used for amplification. The tubes are used as "pre-amp" feeding SS op amps. As @samandhi alluded, people have had some good success after replacing the stock op amps with other higher quality op amps. The Little Bear B4-X is spec'd to drive headphones up to 300 Ohm, your earbuds are low impedance and will be driven easily. The Cayin N3 Pro DAP also has a hybrid tube / SS output arrangement similar to the B4-X. Meaning tube pre-amp stage and SS output stage. But as far as I know the Cayin can't be modified like the B4-X to accept different op amps. I have also been looking at the Little Bear for some fun tube sound lately, so it is quite a coincidence that you also are interested in the B4-X. BTW, I do have vintage tube gear at home so I can appreciate the sound a tube amp can produce.

Edit: I made a mistake about the tube amplification. The tubes are used as amplifiers which feed the op amps. The op amps are unity gain, meaning they do not amplify the signal, but follow the amplified input voltage swing (audio signal) and provide drive current to the load (earbuds/IEMs/headphones).


----------



## samandhi (Mar 21, 2022)

mt877 said:


> The Little Bear B4-X is a hybrid tube / SS amp. The tubes are not used for amplification per se. The tubes are used as "pre-amp" feeding SS op amps. As @samandhi alluded, people have had some good success after replacing the stock op amps with other higher quality op amps. The Little Bear B4-X is spec'd to drive headphones up to 300 Ohm, your earbuds are low impedance and will be driven easily. The Cayin N3 Pro DAP also has a hybrid tube / SS output arrangement similar to the B4-X. Meaning tube pre-amp stage and SS output stage. But as far as I know the Cayin can't be modified like the B4-X to accept different op amps. I have also been looking at the Little Bear for some fun tube sound lately, so it is quite a coincidence that you also are interested in the B4-X. BTW, I do have vintage tube gear at home so I can appreciate the sound a tube amp can produce.


Thanks for sharing that. 

On that same note, from what I have heard, the op amps on the Bear are consumer changeable, without the need for PCB skills (plug and play). Again, I can't verify this. Let us know the route you choose?!

Or, if that turns you off, you could get a true tube amp for a decent price nowadays. Here is an example of some that might interest you; some with DACs built in, some without. With these, you can "roll" tubes in order to get that perfect sound for you; almost like changing amps altogether IMO. Little Dot and WooAudio used to be great names in amps/tube amps, but I have been out of the loop long enough that I really can't tell you which is great/good/terrible. Bottlehead Crack used to be a super good amp also (used to be a DIY, but now has pre-built ones for under $400). You might still have to wire your own power cable though depending on where in the world you are using it. Just more food for thought. 


Edit: It can actually be pretty fun (though possibly expensive also) collecting those tubes; especially when you find a great price on a real vintage tube (which usually tend to be the best ones). It is a whole nother' rabbit hole!


----------



## mt877

Not to wander off topic here. Just one more post about tube amps for earbuds. (Ok I used the word earbuds so back on topic... LOL)

For everyone interested here's a great resource for headphone technical papers, DIY amp builds (Discrete SS, Tube, Hybrid, Op amp SS) and much more.

Highly recommended to visit and bookmark:

HeadWize Memorial
A memorial to HeadWize and Mr. Pow Chu Moy.

Enjoy!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 26, 2022)

syazwaned said:


> Hi all, will earbuds benefit from tube amp?





mt877 said:


> Earbuds can benefit connected to a tube amp, but it really is a matter of synergy between the particular earbuds and the tube amp. The same applies for IEMs, headphones as well. There is also certain synergy with earbuds, IEMs and headphones when connected to solid state DAP and amps. Also I would say that it depends on you as well. Do you already have a tube amp for your open air listening pleasure? If you do then you know how a tube amp combined with certain speakers plus room acoustics and speaker placement can affect your listening pleasure. If you mention what earbuds and what tube amp you are interesting in, then hopefully someone here can give you better feedback.


I prefer using a vacuum tube amp with my earbuds. My amplifier in the photo just below was specifically made for headphones, specifically earbuds with an impedance of over 64Ω, though it has played nicely with earbuds as low as 16Ω with no issues at all.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

WoodyLuvr said:


> I prefer using a vacuum tube amp with my earbuds.





WoodyLuvr said:


> BRAND:  *SACThailand*


What a mysterious photo. Is that all the lighting you have at home?


----------



## Sam L

LaughMoreDaily said:


> What a mysterious photo. Is that all the lighting you have at home?


Why spend money on lighting if it means less money available for earbuds? This is a trade off most of us in this forum are willing to make.


----------



## mt877 (Mar 21, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> I prefer using a vacuum tube amp with my earbuds.
> 
> BRAND:  *SACThailand*
> MODEL:  *Classic 45 SE Silk Vacuum Tube Amplifier; Headphone Edition*
> ...





LaughMoreDaily said:


> What a mysterious photo. Is that all the lighting you have at home?



A haiku poem:

Basking in the glow
The lights circuit breaker trip
When I crank it up!


----------



## MelodyMood

jeejack said:


> If you order from China you will suffer the same. Wait for it to come out of the lockdown


All earphones or even phones come from China only  So there's no other option anyway. However, are there any other alternate earbuds with great detailed sound but not harsh and decent Bass and sub-bass too.


----------



## MelodyMood

cqtek said:


> Hello earbuds buddies.
> 
> Here is my humble opinion on the NiceHCK EB2S.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-eb2s.25729/reviews#review-28192


Hi. Just read your review of EB2S. And also noticed that you have SMABAT M0 and compared it with that. It seems SMABAT M0 is much better than EB2S in terms of Clarity and Separation and have decent bass (less than EB2S though). Do you have 40 Ohms version of M0 or 20 Ohms? I ordered 40 Ohms but the order was cancelled so I may need to order again. EB2S I am les preferring (especially after your review) due to not that good Clarity and Detailed sound but also due to L Shape Plug which I don't want. 

Do you see M0 is very good and not thin sounded? And have some Bass and it's not that lack bass fully? While I want very detailed sound, I don't want harsh sounding earbuds. I would prefer smooth and slight warm sounding earbuds (with Mic only). Please suggest. Thanks.


----------



## samandhi

LaughMoreDaily said:


> What a mysterious photo. Is that all the lighting you have at home?





Sam L said:


> Why spend money on lighting if it means less money available for earbuds? This is a trade off most of us in this forum are willing to make.


Yeah, I haven't had breakfast for a couple of years now...


----------



## MelodyMood (Mar 21, 2022)

cqtek said:


> Hello earbuds buddies.
> 
> Here is my humble opinion on the NiceHCK EB2S.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-eb2s.25729/reviews#review-28192


Also, do you know any other earbud (with Straight Plug + Mic) which is very god detailed sound but not harsh and decent bass. You mentioned that M0 lacks Bass (may be 40 Ohms may have better bass but I don't know) but if any other earbud (up to AUD $40-45 or may be $50), I would like to try that. I considered JCALLY EP09 too but then found it also has L Plug and no info on sound signature. Not sure if EP05 or 08 or J10 etc. are good enough and near what I am looking for.

There's **** PT15 but I heard it has absolutely no Bass and very thin sound. May be Harsh too: *https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002974508825.html*


----------



## syazwaned

samandhi said:


> I have heard that the Little Bear isn't that great unless you change from the stock opamps. Though I can't confirm this, as I have not heard it personally. YMMV!



Thank you, will look into it! Nobsound NS-08E  look great,  not too powerful and great for earbuds and iems. Xduoo MT 602 also pique my interest, although I hear hybrid does not provide the best tube listening experience. 



WoodyLuvr said:


> I prefer using a vacuum tube amp with my earbuds. My amplifier in the photo just below was specifically made for headphones, especially earbuds with an impedance of over 64Ω though it has played nicely with earbuds as low as 16Ω with no issues at all.
> 
> BRAND:  *SACThailand*
> MODEL:  *Classic 45 SE Silk Vacuum Tube Amplifier; Headphone Edition*
> ...



You sir, always has the best setup!



mt877 said:


> The Little Bear B4-X is a hybrid tube / SS amp. The tubes are not used for amplification. The tubes are used as "pre-amp" feeding SS op amps. As @samandhi alluded, people have had some good success after replacing the stock op amps with other higher quality op amps. The Little Bear B4-X is spec'd to drive headphones up to 300 Ohm, your earbuds are low impedance and will be driven easily. The Cayin N3 Pro DAP also has a hybrid tube / SS output arrangement similar to the B4-X. Meaning tube pre-amp stage and SS output stage. But as far as I know the Cayin can't be modified like the B4-X to accept different op amps. I have also been looking at the Little Bear for some fun tube sound lately, so it is quite a coincidence that you also are interested in the B4-X. BTW, I do have vintage tube gear at home so I can appreciate the sound a tube amp can produce.
> 
> Edit: I made a mistake about the tube amplification. The tubes are used as amplifiers which feed the op amps. The op amps are unity gain, meaning they do not amplify the signal, but follow the amplified input voltage swing (audio signal) and provide drive current to the load (earbuds/IEMs/headphones).


Ah nice, I have a fellow earbuds user who exploring this earbuds + tube hobby together. I still not fully understands how tube amp works, and which are the best and budget friendly. But no rush for me, just exploring the journey at my own pace.


----------



## samandhi

syazwaned said:


> Thank you, will look into it! Nobsound NS-08E look great, not too powerful and great for earbuds and iems. Xduoo MT 602 also pique my interest, although I hear hybrid does not provide the best tube listening experience.


It really depends on the implementation IMO. But yes, generally a hybrid won't replace a true valve amplifier (vacuum tube). For instance the Cayin C9 is known to be one the absolute best small hybrid amps you can get (not quite portable, but transportable), and even though it has Korg Nutubes inside, it is known to not sound that much like a true vacuum tube amp overall.


syazwaned said:


> Ah nice, I have a fellow earbuds user who exploring this earbuds + tube hobby together. I still not fully understands how tube amp works, and which are the best and budget friendly. But no rush for me, just exploring the journey at my own pace.


This is some good reading on understanding valve amplifiers and why they remain popular to this day.


----------



## mt877

syazwaned said:


> Ah nice, I have a fellow earbuds user who exploring this earbuds + tube hobby together. I still not fully understands how tube amp works, and which are the best and budget friendly. But no rush for me, just exploring the journey at my own pace.


That's great, I'm sure you and your friend will find the amps you'll both like.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Oct 5, 2022)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> What a mysterious photo. Is that all the lighting you have at home?


*“All the better to see you with!” said the Wolf...*

LOL! I offered a night-time photo to better display the wonderous glow of the tubes.

Here is a daytime pic in comparison... see, not so romantic is it?




 *vs* 



*BRAND:* *SACThailand
SERIES: Silk Vacuum Tube Amplifier
MODEL: Classic 45 SE* ─ *Custom Earbud Edition
TYPE: Single-Ended Triode (SET)
CLASS: Pure Class A
CIRCUIT: Full P2P Wiring; Zero Feedback; Auto Cathode Bias
TUBE COMPLEMENT: 1 x 5Y3GT Input; 2 x 6SN7 Driver; 2 x 45 Output
POWER OUTPUT: ~1.5-2W x 2 Channels
OUTPUT IMPEDANCE: Low = >10Ω; High = ~100Ω
GAIN: Low = 5.7x (15dB; ~3.5V); High = 14.5x (23dB; ~9.8V)
INPUT:* *3 x Stereo RCA
OUTPUT: 1 x 6.3mm (1/4"); 1 x 4-Pin XLR
UNIT DIMENSIONS (W x D x H): 36cm x 31cm x 20cm
UNIT WEIGHT: 14.5 kg / 32 lbs*


Sam L said:


> Why spend money on lighting if it means less money available for earbuds? This is a trade off most of us in this forum are willing to make.


Indeed candles are so inexpensive and tubes do provide some ambient lightning... though very, very, minor at that! 


mt877 said:


> A haiku poem:
> 
> Basking in the glow
> The lights circuit breaker trip
> When I crank it up!


Exactly!


samandhi said:


> Yeah, I haven't had breakfast for a couple of years now...


Bre-ak-fa-st... what is that? I only know of one meal: dinner. Are there other meals in a day? Do tell!


syazwaned said:


> You sir, always has the best setup!


Thank you. It was a surprise gift from my better half.



Spoiler: More Pics & Details






Input (Rectifier) Tube:
*    Sovtek 5Y3GT 14 12; Modern*

Output (Power) Tubes:
*Sylvania 45 ST M(N)6R Black Plate 'Coke Bottle'; 1940s ('42-'44)
    Sylvania 45 ST-14 Black Plate Engraved 'Coke Bottle'; 1930s *(_an early Silvertone variant_)

Driver Tubes:
*   RCA Radiotron Electron 6SN7GTB Black Plate; Mid-1950's
    RCA Radiotron Electron 6SN7GTB Black Plate; Mid-1940's*







PC: *intel NUC Hades Canyon; NUC8i7HNK*
DAC:* iFi Audio Zen DAC Signature V2; DIY Steampunk'd Case* (for more information about this reused case please see *here*)
Interconnect Cable: *ghentaudio B02 3.5TRS ♂ ► RCA (♂ + ♂); 10cm*
Headphone Adapter: *Blur 4-Pin XLR ♂ ► 2.5TRRS ♀*
Headphone Adapter: *Ksearphone 3.5TRRS ♀ ► 3.5TRS ♂*
Headphone Adapter: *Venture Electronics 3.5TRRS ♀ ► 2.5TRRS ♂*
Headphone Adapter: *Venture Electronics 2.5TRRS ♀ ► 3.5TRS ♂*
Audio Extension Cable: *XINHS 2.5TRRS ♀ ► ♂; 75cm*
Line Out - Audio Extension Cable: *XINHS 3.5TRS ♀ ► ♂; 50cm x 2*
Power Cable: *Blur Swiss Gotham 86215 & 85025 GPC GC AC*


----------



## syazwaned

@WoodyLuvr 

You no longer include God Tier earbuds?


----------



## Charlyro222

Just received this beautiful shells from Philippines. 
Outstanding soundstage.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Wow! What are those? Link please.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 22, 2022)

syazwaned said:


> @WoodyLuvr
> 
> You no longer include God Tier earbuds?



A link to my *Earbud God-Tier List* is at the very end of my *ƎAЯ8UDS TIME⅃IИƎ *post... however, after receiving some rather critical and unhappy DMs from unhappy buyers, I have decided I will no longer update and support the Earbud God-Tier List so as to avoid further trouble. I am even finding myself now reluctant to recommend earbuds in this thread especially if people are going to be so silly and react in this manner. Truly amazing how someone can get so easily enraged and willing to completely blame others for a disappointing purchase all the while not even taking into consideration that personal preferences/tastes are strongly at play nor taking into account the very well known QA related variances that occur these days with manufactured goods.


----------



## syazwaned

WoodyLuvr said:


> A link to my *Earbud God-Tier List* is at the very end of my *ƎAЯ8UDS TIME⅃IИƎ *post... however, after receiving some rather critical and unhappy DMs from unhappy buyers, I have decided I will no longer update and support the Earbud God-Tier List so as to avoid further trouble. I am even finding myself now reluctant to recommend earbuds in this thread especially if people are going to be so silly and react in this manner. Truly amazing how someone can get so easily enraged and willing to completely blame others for a disappointing purchase all the while not even taking into consideration that personal preferences/tastes are strongly at play nor taking into account the very well known QA related variances that occur these days with manufactured goods.


To be honest I bought my LBBs and Chaconne based on your and others earbuds God Tier Earbuds. Both incredibly surpass my my expectation. It is time and money saving for me as I dont want to suffer the same time and money expenditure horror during my IEMs exploration period. 

It is sad to see it is no longer updated, but I am sure the it has benefited a lot of earbuds lover like me.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 22, 2022)

syazwaned said:


> To be honest I bought my LBBs and Chaconne based on your and others earbuds God Tier Earbuds. Both incredibly surpass my my expectation. It is time and money saving for me as I dont want to suffer the same time and money expenditure horror during my IEMs exploration period.
> 
> It is sad to see it is no longer updated, but I am sure the it has benefited a lot of earbuds lover like me.


Very happy to hear that the list was helpful to you (that honestly has been the desired intent for all my lists) as I too, over many decades, got lost a good number of times in this hobby. Unfortunately, being called/treated as 'a shill' coupled with the further beratement and admonishment for offering an honest opinion/review/experience/list about certain/particular earbuds has kind of worn me out now. Maybe when these awkward social times end (change) I will revisit the idea of supporting and updating the Earbud God-Tier List again. Until then, I will do my upmost best to offer more benign lists and data with far less personal asides/experiences added or offered so as to maintain the peace.


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> *“All the better to see you with!” said the Wolf...*
> 
> LOL! I offered a night-time photo to better display the wonderous glow of the tubes.
> 
> Here is a daytime pic... see, not so romantic is it?


LOL... 

Still, that is a gorgeous setup!


WoodyLuvr said:


> Bre-ak-fa-st... what is that? I only know of one meal: dinner. Are there other meals in a day? Do tell!


Yessir! There are actually 3 (official) meals, and ramen noodles and frozen burritos don't count as a meal. We will teach you, as you have taught us. 


WoodyLuvr said:


> Thank you. It was a surprise gift from my better half.


WOW! Ima' save that picture to show to my better half, in hopes that she might learn from the experience. 

Seriously though, that is one beautiful piece of technology (even if it emulates old school technology)! 


Charlyro222 said:


> Just received this beautiful shells from Philippines.
> Outstanding soundstage.


Oh, those are fantastic looking! +1 on knowing what those are?! And it is a MUST to have your impressions of how they sound (I am assuming these are DIY)!


WoodyLuvr said:


> A link to my *Earbud God-Tier List* is at the very end of my *ƎAЯ8UDS TIME⅃IИƎ *post... however, after receiving some rather critical and unhappy DMs from unhappy buyers, I have decided I will no longer update and support the Earbud God-Tier List so as to avoid further trouble. I am even finding myself now reluctant to recommend earbuds in this thread especially if people are going to be so silly and react in this manner. Truly amazing how someone can get so easily enraged and willing to completely blame others for a disappointing purchase all the while not even taking into consideration that personal preferences/tastes are strongly at play nor taking into account the very well known QA related variances that occur these days with manufactured goods.


I think it is sad that you are pushed to that. You have helped SOOOO many people, and are also appreciated by so many in this thread. I think you should continue updating the list, maybe just not talk about it. Won't that appease those that are not intelligent enough to get out of their own way? 


WoodyLuvr said:


> Very happy to hear that the list was helpful to you (that honestly has been the desired intent for all my lists) as I too, over many decades, got lost a good number of times in this hobby. Unfortunately, being called/treated as 'a shill' coupled with the further beratement and admonishment for offering an honest opinion/review/experience/list about certain/particular earbuds has kind of worn me out now. Maybe when these awkward social times end (change) I will revisit the idea of supporting and updating the Earbud God-Tier List again. Until then, I will do my upmost best to offer more benign lists and data with far less personal asides/experiences added or offered so as to maintain the peace.


While I don't always agree with your findings 100% (of course, having different ears means that I won't find the exact same things as you do, and it is seldom I agree with anyone about their views on headgear 100%), I am also a grown-up, and I find your findings to be invaluable and super useful, and I DO agree with your tastes more than most. I have also bought a couple of my buds based on your (and others) recommendations. I hope that you reconsider despite what the few (children) think otherwise. 

In this case this statement prolly' holds true more than the other way around IMO:

*The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few* - _Spock_


----------



## Charlyro222

WoodyLuvr said:


> Wow! What are those? Link please.


LREY Portable Music.

No stocks, only limited editions.
I bought 8 earbuds for me and my friends at Spain a month ago.

Facebook link:
https://www.facebook.com/LREYPortableMusic/__


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> *“All the better to see you with!” said the Wolf...*
> 
> LOL! I offered a night-time photo to better display the wonderous glow of the tubes.
> 
> ...


For me, this box is priceless. I really like it


----------



## cqtek

MelodyMood said:


> Hi. Just read your review of EB2S. And also noticed that you have SMABAT M0 and compared it with that. It seems SMABAT M0 is much better than EB2S in terms of Clarity and Separation and have decent bass (less than EB2S though). Do you have 40 Ohms version of M0 or 20 Ohms? I ordered 40 Ohms but the order was cancelled so I may need to order again. EB2S I am les preferring (especially after your review) due to not that good Clarity and Detailed sound but also due to L Shape Plug which I don't want.
> 
> Do you see M0 is very good and not thin sounded? And have some Bass and it's not that lack bass fully? While I want very detailed sound, I don't want harsh sounding earbuds. I would prefer smooth and slight warm sounding earbuds (with Mic only). Please suggest. Thanks.





MelodyMood said:


> Also, do you know any other earbud (with Straight Plug + Mic) which is very god detailed sound but not harsh and decent bass. You mentioned that M0 lacks Bass (may be 40 Ohms may have better bass but I don't know) but if any other earbud (up to AUD $40-45 or may be $50), I would like to try that. I considered JCALLY EP09 too but then found it also has L Plug and no info on sound signature. Not sure if EP05 or 08 or J10 etc. are good enough and near what I am looking for.
> 
> There's **** PT15 but I heard it has absolutely no Bass and very thin sound. May be Harsh too: *https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002974508825.html*



My liking of the M0 is just a personal preference based on the fact that they are one of the relatively cheap earbuds that sound very clear. Are they better than the EB2S? I don't think so in absolute terms. I have found the EB2S to sound very good in some genres, while the M0s sound thinner and less full-bodied. I don't think the M0s have minimal bass, less so, compared to the EB2S. But being Smabat's specialist in bass eabuds, the M0s are one of the lightest models in this respect. This is also a personal preference. I prefer a bit more bass in both earbuds, but we'd have to go to another kind of sound and that's like a short blanket, you stretch there, you're short somewhere else...

I think my M0 is 20 Ohms, that's what it says on the box.

For bass and sound with some sparkle there's the classic RY4S MMCX PLUS 32 and you can put any cable you want.
On the other hand, I can't help you with the other earbuds you propose, I don't have them. 
I'm sure other colleagues can help you more than me, in that sense.


----------



## waynes world

WoodyLuvr said:


> Very happy to hear that the list was helpful to you (that honestly has been the desired intent for all my lists) as I too, over many decades, got lost a good number of times in this hobby. Unfortunately, being called/treated as 'a shill' coupled with the further beratement and admonishment for offering an honest opinion/review/experience/list about certain/particular earbuds has kind of worn me out now. Maybe when these awkward social times end (change) I will revisit the idea of supporting and updating the Earbud God-Tier List again. Until then, I will do my upmost best to offer more benign lists and data with far less personal asides/experiences added or offered so as to maintain the peace.



You are one of the most helpful people here, and the time that you put into it is evident. I find it very irritating that you have been treated in this manner. What's wrong with people??? Grrr!!!


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Very happy to hear that the list was helpful to you (that honestly has been the desired intent for all my lists) as I too, over many decades, got lost a good number of times in this hobby. Unfortunately, being called/treated as 'a shill' coupled with the further beratement and admonishment for offering an honest opinion/review/experience/list about certain/particular earbuds has kind of worn me out now. Maybe when these awkward social times end (change) I will revisit the idea of supporting and updating the Earbud God-Tier List again. Until then, I will do my upmost best to offer more benign lists and data with far less personal asides/experiences added or offered so as to maintain the peace.


Tell them to read up on HRTF:

https://dictionary.apa.org/head-related-transfer-function
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-related_transfer_function


----------



## Charlyro222

More pics, now from the other model, Grado.


----------



## mt877 (Mar 22, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> Tell them to read up on HRTF:
> 
> https://dictionary.apa.org/head-related-transfer-function
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-related_transfer_function


HRTF is not the issue, it is the empty space between their ears which is the problem.

Because of the empty cavity they may have the Helmholtz resonator effect... that would surely explain it.


----------



## samandhi

Well, I got some potentially good news to share. I ordered a second pair of CCA CRAs from one store on Aliexpress, and the Yincrow RW-3000 from another at the same time. The CRA were always slated to arrive by this coming Saturday (the 26th), while the RW-3000 were estimated for April 12th. 

The tracking shows a "Logistics Service Upgrade" status. Meaning that both orders were combined into one. So that means that I should also be getting my RW-3000 this weekend (hopefully). As a matter of fact, it shows they cleared US customs on the 21st (though there isn't any new tracking information past that date).  I am really quite (pleasantly) surprised with all the COVID related delays of manufacturing, and shipping, and... really everything.

Whoot!  Getting excited now!


----------



## h810

I just got the JCALLY EP05 and they seem to be good enough. Really, after listening to them the whole weekend, they do sound really good. 
They have some QC issues, but if you do get a good pair, you are getting a beryllium dome driver, mmcx, pretty well balanced overall earbud for only 12 bucks? Sign me up! 
Also, did I mention they look great? it's really good to have a pair that doesn't look like every single other one, for a change. 
did I mention it's 12 bucks? It really does compete


----------



## h810

MelodyMood said:


> Also, do you know any other earbud (with Straight Plug + Mic) which is very god detailed sound but not harsh and decent bass. You mentioned that M0 lacks Bass (may be 40 Ohms may have better bass but I don't know) but if any other earbud (up to AUD $40-45 or may be $50), I would like to try that. I considered JCALLY EP09 too but then found it also has L Plug and no info on sound signature. Not sure if EP05 or 08 or J10 etc. are good enough and near what I am looking for.
> 
> There's **** PT15 but I heard it has absolutely no Bass and very thin sound. May be Harsh too: *https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002974508825.html*


I'm sorry, I'm still new to this awesome thread, but the previous answer was meant for this comment


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Well, I got some potentially good news to share. I ordered a second pair of CCA CRAs from one store on Aliexpress, and the Yincrow RW-3000 from another at the same time. The CRA were always slated to arrive by this coming Saturday (the 26th), while the RW-3000 were estimated for April 12th.
> 
> The tracking shows a "Logistics Service Upgrade" status. Meaning that both orders were combined into one. So that means that I should also be getting my RW-3000 this weekend (hopefully). As a matter of fact, it shows they cleared US customs on the 21st (though there isn't any new tracking information past that date).  I am really quite (pleasantly) surprised with all the COVID related delays of manufacturing, and shipping, and... really everything.
> 
> Whoot!  Getting excited now!


That's great. We both ordered the Yincrow RW-3000 at the same time and I keep getting shipping updates, but the progress bar they use for shipping shows "just left country of origin" status. Maybe they put mine in a bottle and threw it in the ocean... LOL.


----------



## Penon

*SHOZY Gold Flagship HIFI Audiophile Earbud - Limited Edition*

Both 3.5mm audio and 4.4mm balanced are available now .

https://penonaudio.com/shozy-gold.html


----------



## Penon (Mar 25, 2022)

Richiyaado said:


> I see that the new Rose Technics Martini earbuds are now available from Penon Audio. Does anyone know the diameter of these buds? My dinky ears won't tolerate anything larger than 16mm or so. Thanks!


The diameter of Rose Martini is about 16.48mm.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 18, 2022)

*It's Alive! Again...*


Well as a number of you might *recall *the left driver failed on my *K's Temperament 钛铃 "Titanium Ling" Bell-Ti (120Ω)* back on _15 May 2021_ due to a faulty voice coil and loose cable which was kindly and most appreciatively repaired by *Wong @ Blur Earbuds*. Subsequently, the right driver then conked out on me on _6 DEC 2021_. An utterly disappointing course of events to say the least especially from a pair of god-tier level flagship earbuds.

I sent them to *@FranQL*, whom had most graciously gifted me a number of his DIY earbuds, in hopes that he could at least repurpose the titanium shells, jacks, and perhaps even the cabling for one of his next creations. Well this adept Spaniard quickly discovered that the right driver voice coil had failed as well! Ks QA is now at this point quite suspect in my book and thus why I had to sadly remove all their products from my Earbuds God-Tier List.



Spoiler: Faulty Right Driver Voice Coil















Well to my great surprise *@FranQL *indeed repurposed them... completely replacing the junkie fault-prone drivers and then sent them back to me!!! Still completely floored by this most gracious and kind gesture I proudly introduce to you all the:

*FranQL Temperament Woody Edition
3.5TRRS (150Ω); 1 of 1
Modded Ksearphone Temperament 钛铃 Bell-Ti 120Ω*



 


After thoroughly testing a number of different driver candidates *@FranQL* finally settled on a warm and relaxing sounding 14.8mm 150Ω cannibalized driver (2018 - VE Zen LL) that after some very thoughtful tuning synergized brilliantly with the titanium bell shell. Which has been to my great surprise very similar sounding to the original 120Ω driver that Ks had used. Still offering a pleasantly warm and ultra-extended listening capable sound signature I have found these modded Ks Bell-Ti earbuds to be more balanced sounding with a nice sparkle in the treble... so definitely more exciting and a tad less gooey and laidback than the original tuning. I have only had them for a week now but I am very pleased with their performance thus far... they have yet to exhibit any naughtiness.

A most profuse and respectful "thank you!" to *@FranQL* for bringing my favorite pair of earbuds back to life and dare I say sounding even better than before... you made my year good sir!


----------



## calcatreppola

syazwaned said:


> To be honest I bought my LBBs and Chaconne based on your and others earbuds God Tier Earbuds. Both incredibly surpass my my expectation. It is time and money saving for me as I dont want to suffer the same time and money expenditure horror during my IEMs exploration period.
> 
> It is sad to see it is no longer updated, but I am sure the it has benefited a lot of earbuds lover like me.


I must endorse this too... WoodyLuvr hints are always very helpful, and in general most of this discussion. Now I understand why he is writing very little about buds. It is a pity. Thank you for sharing your passion with us, @WoodyLuvr  amd thank you all people who do the same


----------



## FranQL

WoodyLuvr said:


> *It's Alive! Again...*
> 
> 
> Well as a number of you might *recall *the left driver failed on my *K's Temperament 钛铃 "Titanium Ling" Bell-Ti (120Ω)* back on _15 May 2021_ due to a faulty voice coil and loose cable which was kindly and most appreciatively repaired by *Wong @ Blur Earbuds*. Subsequently, the right driver then conked out on me on _6 DEC 2021_. An utterly disappointing course of events to say the least especially from a pair of god-tier level flagship earbuds.
> ...




Few buds can boast of having traveled as much as these! but they have a lot of history in a very short time. I hope no error occurs again.

I'm also glad you liked them, that was the goal!


----------



## jeejack

FranQL said:


> Few buds can boast of having traveled as much as these! but they have a lot of history in a very short time. I hope no error occurs again.
> 
> I'm also glad you liked them, that was the goal!


Good job hermano !


----------



## samandhi

Update to my RW-3000 shipment. It is now estimated to arrive this coming Monday (28th). All I can say is WOW! USPS has become the new (and maybe even slower) China Post... LOL 

The package cleared customs on the 21st, which means it will take them 7 days to ship within the US. I remember just a few years ago, anything within the US usually took 2 days (3 at most); and that included Puerto Rico. Oh well, I am working from home on Monday anyhow, so not really that big of a deal I suppose.


----------



## RikudouGoku

samandhi said:


> Update to my RW-3000 shipment. It is now estimated to arrive this coming Monday (28th). All I can say is WOW! USPS has become the new (and maybe even slower) China Post... LOL
> 
> The package cleared customs on the 21st, which means it will take them 7 days to ship within the US. I remember just a few years ago, anything within the US usually took 2 days (3 at most); and that included Puerto Rico. Oh well, I am working from home on Monday anyhow, so not really that big of a deal I suppose.


ouch, having shipping delays right before the weekend sucks...

Meanwhile look at what I got today.




N52 BG
19-21 Red dot ti comp


----------



## mt877 (Mar 26, 2022)

Penon said:


> *SHOZY Gold Flagship HIFI Audiophile Earbud - Limited Edition*
> 
> Both 3.5mm audio and 4.4mm balanced are available now .
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/shozy-gold.html


Very nice, but wrong timing for me. What do the Gold have over the BK Stardust (sound quality)?

Edit: My thoughts are the Gold is SG on steroids? Upgraded cable and according to penon listing, bronze nickle plated shell. So I guess a better comparison would be Gold vs SG?


----------



## meryjanek37

Sorry to bother everyone. Anyone who has owned both "Dqsm PD21" and "Rose Martini" can give me a bit of a comparative feel about the two earbuds.


----------



## jeejack

RikudouGoku said:


> ouch, having shipping delays right before the weekend sucks...
> 
> Meanwhile look at what I got today.
> 
> ...


Red dot TI comp is not part of a 19 21 family it just looks like. 
You can skip N52 BG, they are to many on the market. 32 comp TI red dot or the legendary 19 21 red dot are much better


----------



## RikudouGoku

jeejack said:


> You can skip N52 BG, they are to many on the market


lol, why does that even matter?


----------



## FranQL (Mar 26, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> lol, why does that even matter?




IMO 32 Ohm N52 is average, all the details on the front line and stage contained. It has a good tonality and I agree with @jeejack that there are much better ones, for example for me 32 bio is the undisputed king in that impedance, unless blue pet surpasses it.....

but my opinion may not be the best, because I greatly enjoy drivers that are simply free, like these photo (32 Ohm)

I see the $319 price of shozy gold, and I can't help but smile, they might already sound like celestial eternal life, paying that for a generic plastic shell.... plus a fancy cable... maybe the diaphragm is made of gold.


----------



## RikudouGoku

FranQL said:


> IMO 32 Ohm N52 is average, all the details on the front line and stage contained. It has a good tonality and I agree with Jeejack that there are much better ones, for example for me 32 bio is the undisputed king in that impedance, unless blue pet surpasses it.....


"good" tonality is depended on your library. The 32 bio does have a lot of technicalities but it does have a big tonality advantage for that over the n52bg.


----------



## FranQL

RikudouGoku said:


> "good" tonality is depended on your library. The 32 bio does have a lot of technicalities but it does have a big tonality advantage for that over the n52bg.



Yes, of course, I always talk about my personal tastes, it does not occur to me to make universal statements


----------



## jeejack

RikudouGoku said:


> lol, why does that even matter?


Because you want to sell something that the market is full of! All 32 ohm custom earbuds have this driver. Or maybe you found the "magic tuning" for it. 🍻 I just gave you an idea to advertise your builds "magic tuning" 👌


FranQL said:


> IMO 32 Ohm N52 is average, all the details on the front line and stage contained. It has a good tonality and I agree with @jeejack that there are much better ones, for example for me 32 bio is the undisputed king in that impedance, unless blue pet surpasses it.....
> 
> but my opinion may not be the best, because I greatly enjoy drivers that are simply free, like these photo (32 Ohm)
> 
> I see the $319 price of shozy gold, and I can't help but smile, they might already sound like celestial eternal life, paying that for a generic plastic shell.... plus a fancy cable... maybe the diaphragm is made of gold.



32 bio comp are awesome 👍


----------



## chinmie

just remember about consistency. to me that's more important when someone making a line of product.. SQ and tonality-wise, there's always a market for that as people's taste in sound varies.

I've met and heard many builders who made one awesome tuning and can't replicate it again exactly the same...


----------



## mochill

chinmie said:


> just remember about consistency. to me that's more important when someone making a line of product.. SQ and tonality-wise, there's always a market for that as people's taste in sound varies.
> 
> I've met and heard many builders who made one awesome tuning and can't replicate it again exactly the same...


You need newbsound 😁


----------



## jeejack

Actually two. One for backup


----------



## FranQL

jeejack said:


> Actually two. One for backup



Three, in case the backup fails


----------



## samandhi

FranQL said:


> Three, in case the backup fails


Four if you REALLY want to be sure.


----------



## Ronion (Mar 27, 2022)

In all seriousness, there are thousands of great ‘Classical’ piano players in the world.  Hundreds of them better than Lang Lang when he was starting out and inexplicably famous, yet they were/are unheard (no pun) of for the most part on the world stage as the financial disparity indicates.  Such a sad situation.  Many female pianists figured out a way to create some cleavage (no pun again of course) for themselves in the Classical Piano world by wearing more revealing attire.  Yuja Wong, a far more complete pianist at the time, was a trailblazer in this regard and I for one am grateful!  I would not want to see Andras Schiff in one of those outfits.  EVER.  Sonically, they are both incredible.  Visually, well I’m biased.  Maybe that’s the way to mow the grass around you: put some waifu on that package?  It’s worked before.  Oh wait a minute, that just puts you in a different field but still surrounded by a lot of tall grass.  All these modder buds have hype men…. Maybe *objective superiority *as the Hail Mary?  Only one builder that I know of demonstrates their bud’s objectively in a meaningful manner.  It’s a tough situation but does leave clear path for *upgrades. * I’m useless as a business strategist, but I have to concede that I would have chosen a different driver to start.  You need a lawn mower or jugs (definitely not a pun) of carcinogens, not more grass seed.  I actually gave that driver away in a bud that made which measured superior to the 32Pro by the slightest of margins.  It’s a nice driver, but not actually exceptional in the DIY world.  Its stock tuning, as many can attest is better than most.  I guess you could go Liberace!  Flamboyance attracts attention and the fine folks at Swarovski would gladly sell you some bling.  Yeah, okay I will never make for a decent business strategist.  Undercut the competition!  That’s your move I think.  Make’em nice and sell’em cheap.  Once you have the tuning, building buds takes minutes.  I really think that’s the way to go.  The competition is priced way too high in general.  This is my moment of genius as a business strategist.  There’s a lot of room for you underneath these guys.


----------



## Setmagic

Who's wanna BIO comp upgrade to Svarowski Crystal Line?

Only 199€


----------



## Ronion (Mar 27, 2022)

Setmagic said:


> Who's wanna BIO comp upgrade to Svarowski Crystal Line?
> 
> Only 199€


The upgrade path is as you say: crystal clear.  The swag juice is dripping off these.  Careful! Floor may be wet.  Proceed with caution.


----------



## mt877

Setmagic said:


> Who's wanna BIO comp upgrade to Svarowski Crystal Line?
> 
> Only 199€


Not a good value. They cheaped out on the cable.


----------



## Setmagic

mt877 said:


> Not a good value. They cheaped out on the cable.


Cable is pure OCC 7N mono crystal cooper with Rhodium connector. It's white and minimalistic like Apple products.
Most important it's hand made.


----------



## mt877

Setmagic said:


> Cable is pure OCC 7N mono crystal cooper with Rhodium connector. It's white and minimalistic like Apple products.
> Most important it's hand made.


That's what I mean, cheaped out. For full Kardashian effect the cable should be jewel encrusted. Haha.


----------



## Setmagic

mt877 said:


> That's what I mean, cheaped out. For full Kardashian effect the cable should be jewel encrusted. Haha.


Or crafted by Kardasian herself using @Rary DIY Buds guide


----------



## Setmagic

My first DIY Buds that I'm really love.
Goes to my friend.
She like oldshool MX500 shell in back and this colours as well.


Mixed ideas from @Rary , @furyossa and @FranQL and my experience from full sized headphones and speakers that I am modding for myself and friends from ~2005r.


----------



## KutuzovGambit

samandhi said:


> Four if you REALLY want to be sure.


*checks closet* yeah I did actually buy 4 backups of the Qian39. Best $16 (total) I ever spent probably.


----------



## Ronion

KutuzovGambit said:


> *checks closet* yeah I did actually buy 4 backups of the Qian39. Best $16 (total) I ever spent probably.


I thought I was bad lol.


----------



## KutuzovGambit

Ronion said:


> I thought I was bad lol.


In my own defense this was after the cable termination bent in half on my first copy after like two weeks.


----------



## MelodyMood

cqtek said:


> My liking of the M0 is just a personal preference based on the fact that they are one of the relatively cheap earbuds that sound very clear. Are they better than the EB2S? I don't think so in absolute terms. I have found the EB2S to sound very good in some genres, while the M0s sound thinner and less full-bodied. I don't think the M0s have minimal bass, less so, compared to the EB2S. But being Smabat's specialist in bass eabuds, the M0s are one of the lightest models in this respect. This is also a personal preference. I prefer a bit more bass in both earbuds, but we'd have to go to another kind of sound and that's like a short blanket, you stretch there, you're short somewhere else...


Ok. So EB2S is good as well but sometime less clearer than M0. is that so? But it is not that M0 is very thin sounding and have absolutely no Bass as while I want very good clarity, I do not want only that and want good earbuds overall.


cqtek said:


> I think my M0 is 20 Ohms, that's what it says on the box.


If you did not buy Driver + Shell separately, the it comes in 20 Ohms only as far as I know.


cqtek said:


> For bass and sound with some sparkle there's the classic RY4S MMCX PLUS 32 and you can put any cable you want.
> On the other hand, I can't help you with the other earbuds you propose, I don't have them.
> I'm sure other colleagues can help you more than me, in that sense.


I have RY4S MMCX 32 Ohms (Plus version). They are really good and the only reason behind looking for M0 or any other earbud is that I am looking slightly better sound than RY4S MMCX. Especially in terms of Details and Clarity but I do not want to compromise on Bass or Warmness of the sound too. They have one 300 Ohms version also but I am not sure if they will be good and much better than M0 or EB2S or they are more or less similar to 32 Ohms Plus verison with only high impedance.   

All of a sudden I see shortage of good earbuds and don't see anything new AE at all.


----------



## MelodyMood

h810 said:


> I just got the JCALLY EP05 and they seem to be good enough. Really, after listening to them the whole weekend, they do sound really good.
> They have some QC issues, but if you do get a good pair, you are getting a beryllium dome driver, mmcx, pretty well balanced overall earbud for only 12 bucks? Sign me up!
> Also, did I mention they look great? it's really good to have a pair that doesn't look like every single other one, for a change.
> did I mention it's 12 bucks? It really does compete


Thanks. Did you also consider other JCALLY series earbuds (EP08 or EP09). How is the sound signature? If you have any details abt that pls? Also, I see that on the back of the earbud, there are mesh design, it is just design or it leaks sound?


----------



## baskingshark

Setmagic said:


> Who's wanna BIO comp upgrade to Svarowski Crystal Line?
> 
> Only 199€





mt877 said:


> Not a good value. They cheaped out on the cable.



Wowzer, other than the cheap looking cable, it is non detachable LOL. Diamonds down the drain if the cable fails, would be a literal white elephant.


----------



## mt877

baskingshark said:


> Wowzer, other than the cheap looking cable, it is non detachable LOL. Diamonds down the drain if the cable fails, would be a literal white elephant.


If the cable broke, just cut them off and they could be worn like fine jewelry dangled down like Airpod style. Can't waste that bling. A fashion trend the young ladies everywhere would go for. Alright, there's a new business idea for someone to run with.


----------



## baskingshark

There's an Aliexpress sale in 2.5 days' time.

Any good deals spotted?

The Ksearphone LBBS seems to be going at $42.90, and if one adds coupons it can potentially be sub $40!



Well I skipped the LBBS cause it is bass lite, and read there are some QC issues? But well, whoever is interested can try it I suppose.


----------



## mt877

Linsoul Spring sale event on now extending for 4 days. Not sure what buds they carry. I think they're more IEM-centric with a few buds featured on their site.


----------



## Setmagic (Mar 28, 2022)

mt877 said:


> If the cable broke, just cut them off and they could be worn like fine jewelry dangled down like Airpod style. Can't waste that bling. A fashion trend the young ladies everywhere would go for. Alright, there's a new business idea for someone to run with.


I think it's plenty of jevelery workshops who can do this with everything:


Only 1664,16 £
for *"Beats Acoustic Engine"*

https://www.goldgenie.com/product/swarovski-crystal-beats-by-dre-headphones-3/

I found GOLD:


Research and development close to 1 000 000 dollar.
R = 0
D = ???

Source: http://wirelessheadphones.com/most-expensive-beats-by-dr-dre/


----------



## jeejack

Setmagic said:


> Or crafted by Kardasian herself using @Rary DIY Buds guide


Everyone loves @Rary


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> Everyone loves @Rary


----------



## vLEGIONv

Been out of the game for about a year, what's the new hotness? Still enjoying a rotation of smabat st10s black golds, and toneking dendroaspis viridis, to600, and to400's. Kind of eyeing the st20's or the super ones.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 28, 2022)

Ronion said:


> In all seriousness, there are thousands of great ‘Classical’ piano players in the world.  Hundreds of them better than Lang Lang when he was starting out and inexplicably famous, yet they were/are unheard (no pun) of for the most part on the world stage as the financial disparity indicates.  Such a sad situation.  Many female pianists figured out a way to create some cleavage (no pun again of course) for themselves in the Classical Piano world by wearing more revealing attire.  Yuja Wong, a far more complete pianist at the time, was a trailblazer in this regard and I for one am grateful!  I would not want to see Andras Schiff in one of those outfits.  EVER.  Sonically, they are both incredible.  Visually, well I’m biased.  Maybe that’s the way to mow the grass around you: put some waifu on that package?  It’s worked before.  Oh wait a minute, that just puts you in a different field but still surrounded by a lot of tall grass.  All these modder buds have hype men…. Maybe *objective superiority *as the Hail Mary?  Only one builder that I know of demonstrates their bud’s objectively in a meaningful manner.  It’s a tough situation but does leave clear path for *upgrades. * I’m useless as a business strategist, but I have to concede that I would have chosen a different driver to start.  You need a lawn mower or jugs (definitely not a pun) of carcinogens, not more grass seed.  I actually gave that driver away in a bud that made which measured superior to the 32Pro by the slightest of margins.  It’s a nice driver, but not actually exceptional in the DIY world.  Its stock tuning, as many can attest is better than most.  I guess you could go Liberace!  Flamboyance attracts attention and the fine folks at Swarovski would gladly sell you some bling.  Yeah, okay I will never make for a decent business strategist.  Undercut the competition!  That’s your move I think.  Make’em nice and sell’em cheap.  Once you have the tuning, building buds takes minutes.  I really think that’s the way to go.  The competition is priced way too high in general.  This is my moment of genius as a business strategist.  There’s a lot of room for you underneath these guys.


Concur with much of what you said.

After owning nearly three hundred earbuds and auditioning literally hundreds more, a many flagship model included, I find myself here staring at my current stable and it is entirely filled with DIY'd, custom-made, and/or modded earbuds only. That surely must say something about the current state of the market especially in regards to manufacturer QA/QC, driver selection, and brand house sound tuning (sound signature).


----------



## Ronion (Mar 28, 2022)

vLEGIONv said:


> Been out of the game for about a year, what's the new hotness? Still enjoying a rotation of smabat st10s black golds, and toneking dendroaspis viridis, to600, and to400's. Kind of eyeing the st20's or the super ones.


If you can do aggressive EQ, the SMABAT ST20 pro are the best buds I’ve heard.  You need a Qudelix for iOS though.  Otherwise it seems the world has gone DIY as buds are easy to build and TOTL SQ performance can be had for under $20.  The 20pro required more fiddling with fit than any other bud I’ve used as well.


----------



## FranQL

Ronion said:


> If you can do aggressive EQ, the SMABAT ST20 pro are the best buds I’ve heard.  You need a Qudelix for iOS though.  Otherwise it seems the world has gone DIY as buds are easy to build and TOTL SQ performance can be had for under $20.  The 20pro required more fiddling with fit than any other bud I’ve used as well.



For its part, the ST20 required many modifications that consumed a lot of my time / hours, once the sound I was looking for was achieved, the adjustment does not take more than 30 minutes. As always IMO it is worth every euro and every minute invested, but I cannot recommend the purchase.


----------



## FranQL

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur with much of what you said.
> 
> After owning nearly three hundred earbuds and auditioning literally hundreds more, a many flagship model included, I find myself here staring at my current stable and it is entirely filled with DIY'd, custom-made, and/or modded earbuds only. That surely must say something about the current state of the market especially in regards to manufacturer QA/QC, driver selection, and brand house sound tuning (sound signature).



I never cease to be amazed that of everything you have, you use my buds. But I will not deny that I am very happy about it.


----------



## baskingshark

Ronion said:


> If you can do aggressive EQ, the SMABAT ST20 pro are the best buds I’ve heard.  You need a Qudelix for iOS though.  Otherwise it seems the world has gone DIY as buds are easy to build and TOTL SQ performance can be had for under $20.  The 20pro required more fiddling with fit than any other bud I’ve used as well.





FranQL said:


> For its part, the ST20 required many modifications that consumed a lot of my time / hours, once the sound I was looking for was achieved, the adjustment does not take more than 30 minutes. As always IMO it is worth every euro and every minute invested, but I cannot recommend the purchase.



Agree with this.

I don't use EQ, but have to run thru hoops just to get a proper fit (via full foams and silicone rings), and even then, the ST20 Pro can only be used in a certain position in the ear (so as not to cause discomfort or to skew the upper mids to banshee levels).

But once fit is achieved, and with proper amplification, I really appreciate what an added BA brings to the table - better technicalities essentially. But too much effort to secure the fitting on the ST20 Pro, and price-performance ratio is not as good as regular earbuds.

It gets a 3/5 from me as such.


----------



## piknikkopi (Mar 28, 2022)

Hi Everyone,
I am trying to get into earbuds to try out what would work for me to later find one pair good earbuds to land. I have been meddling with IEMs, and found my favorite so far that I have tried to be the Ikko OH10, with Reecho SG-01 as my daily driver. I wanted to try earbuds to find units with more open sound & better awareness of environment, and I'm not really a fan of headphones as well.

I recently bought budget KGIS earbud that was like $5 and I trying this pair realized that I have a different sizes between my left and right ear (concha, tragus, and probably other parts that's going to hold the earbud in place). My right ear can hold the earbud just fine when it just sits within the concha (it can even hold the earbud if I'm pushing it deeper into the outer part of my canal, which at first I thought to be the proper way to wear earbuds).
But my left ear couldn't do it, the earbud keep falling off, also impossible to push the earbud into the outer part of the canal like my right ear and not fall off.
Solution that I can find for now is to wear the earbud over the ear just like how IEM is worn, and twisting the earbud so that the left earbud can be held by the inner tragus, but I thought that I wouldn't have to go through all that with better fitting earbuds.

Is there any earbuds with shell diameter larger than MX500 style without sacrificing comfort, or maybe shell design that locks better? Or are there any better solution for this? Would thicker foam/silicone rubber help? I'm willing to try to get ones that are under $50 for now.


----------



## furyossa

piknikkopi said:


> Hi Everyone,
> I am trying to get into earbuds to try out what would work for me to later find one pair good earbuds to land. I have been meddling with IEMs, and found my favorite so far that I have tried to be the Ikko OH10, with Reecho SG-01 as my daily driver. I wanted to try earbuds to find units with more open sound & better awareness of environment, and I'm not really a fan of headphones as well.
> 
> I recently bought budget KGIS earbud that was like $5 and I trying this pair realized that I have a different sizes between my left and right ear (concha, tragus, and probably other parts that's going to hold the earbud in place). My right ear can hold the earbud just fine when it just sits within the concha (it can even hold the earbud if I'm pushing it deeper into the outer part of my canal, which at first I thought to be the proper way to wear earbuds).
> ...


MX500 shell can hold 3 different covers: metal - mesh, standard plastic and in some cases MX760. 
Metal-mesh cover has slightly larger diameter than standard plastic cover and MX760 cover is smaller than both.
Another type of shells that use 15,4mm drivers are MX760, DP100, Hybrid etc. These shell are more comfy than MX500 and fit is also better.
DP100 shell you can find on ShoonTH buds line up. https://penonaudio.com/ShoonTH
Qian69 is another comfy buds https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002275229979.html
Next you have buds (14.8mm driver) with PK and Docomo shell but on Ali you can find only a few models (half branded and half DIY)


----------



## mt877

Setmagic said:


> I think it's plenty of jevelery workshops who can do this with everything:
> 
> Only 1664,16 £
> for *"Beats Acoustic Engine"*
> ...



Out of all 3, at least these are classy, with svelte elegance:



The other 2 fit the definition of "Pigs with lipstick...".


----------



## Setmagic

mt877 said:


> Out of all 3, at least these are classy, with svelte elegance:
> 
> 
> 
> The other 2 fit the definition of "Pigs with lipstick...".


That's true.

I don't know how diamonds keep value but gold should be good investment as well ☺️


----------



## mt877

Setmagic said:


> That's true.
> 
> I don't know how diamonds keep value but gold should be good investment as well ☺️


Diamonds are probably the most common gemstone on earth, De Beers built up the "inflated" diamond market. There is some dark history about the diamond industry.


----------



## mt877

piknikkopi said:


> Is there any earbuds with shell diameter larger than MX500 style without sacrificing comfort, or maybe shell design that locks better? Or are there any better solution for this? Would thicker foam/silicone rubber help? I'm willing to try to get ones that are under $50 for now.


Maybe some earhooks would be useful?

Example:


----------



## baskingshark

mt877 said:


> Out of all 3, at least these are classy, with svelte elegance:
> 
> 
> 
> The other 2 fit the definition of "Pigs with lipstick...".



This earbud is the literal definition of "golden ears".

Best part is it still has non detachable noodle-thin cables. An awkward yank away from being gold dust. The cable and drivers inside better be made of gold too!


----------



## piknikkopi

furyossa said:


> MX500 shell can hold 3 different covers: metal - mesh, standard plastic and in some cases MX760.
> Metal-mesh cover has slightly larger diameter than standard plastic cover and MX760 cover is smaller than both.
> Another type of shells that use 15,4mm drivers are MX760, DP100, Hybrid etc. These shell are more comfy than MX500 and fit is also better.
> DP100 shell you can find on ShoonTH buds line up. https://penonaudio.com/ShoonTH
> ...



Modded Philips SHE3800 from a local modder that I ordered for about $5 just came in not even an hour ago, it's an instant night and day difference of fitting compared to the MX500-style KGIS. Grips better, also smoother on the edges. Virtually, the Philips is slightly wider compared to the KGIS. 

Based on your recommendation, I found these items on a local e-commerce:

Cat Ear Mimi (Looks a lot like the MX760)
Qian39 (I know it's not the Qian69, but is it comparable for comfortability?)
The Yuin PKs, Nicehck B40, and other PK shell DIYs (are these comfy?)
Fit and comfort aside. Any recommendation between these buds?


----------



## piknikkopi

mt877 said:


> Maybe some earhooks would be useful?
> 
> Example:



I found these online, planning to get these as well, but wanted to explore buds other than the MX500 style


----------



## mt877

piknikkopi said:


> I found these online, planning to get these as well, but wanted to explore buds other than the MX500 style


A concern is the fitting of foams (for tuning) and the earhooks at the same time. I can't imagine putting foams over the earhooks, and putting the earhooks over foams could be a slight task as well?


----------



## FranQL (Mar 28, 2022)

piknikkopi said:


> Fit and comfort aside. Any recommendation between these buds?



Well, of those, I would opt for a PK diy, specifically PK 150 Ohm transparent film, it costs around €35


https://a.aliexpress.com/_vKjiKk


----------



## Ronion (Mar 28, 2022)

mt877 said:


> A concern is the fitting of foams (for tuning) and the earhooks at the same time. I can't imagine putting foams over the earhooks, and putting the earhooks over foams could be a slight task as well?


I always cut my foams to fit over the hook part of the ear hooks.  You cut them in the same fashion you would cut the crust off of a section of pie and then place the hook through the resultant hole. 


And just so you guys know, I wouldn't recommend the ST20 pro to anyone without stipulating the need for dramatic EQ, modification, and/or fit efforts, but in truth, they are the best bud I've ever heard as far as technicalities go.  They do have that screaming banshie upper mids straight out of the box and a virtually impossible fit, but once those things are dealt with they are incredible even through BlueTooth.  They require at least 2V to power them as well.  4V is perfect!


----------



## vygas

FranQL said:


> IMO 32 Ohm N52 is average, all the details on the front line and stage contained. It has a good tonality and I agree with @jeejack that there are much better ones, for example for me 32 bio is the undisputed king in that impedance, unless blue pet surpasses it.....
> 
> but my opinion may not be the best, because I greatly enjoy drivers that are simply free, like these photo (32 Ohm)
> 
> I see the $319 price of shozy gold, and I can't help but smile, they might already sound like celestial eternal life, paying that for a generic plastic shell.... plus a fancy cable... maybe the diaphragm is made of gold.


I'm willing to bet money that the Shozy Gold is a similar story to the Shozy BK. Tuned warmer, and uses a more expensive cable than their little brother (in this case the SG).


----------



## samandhi

Got my package finally today after only 7 days shipping within the USA... LOL

My first impressions are that the RW-3000 is a re-tuning of the RW-2000. The shell has some very small differences in the way they were CNC'ed, all aesthetically done. The overall bud itself is exactly the same IMO (not sure if the driver is different though). The cable is thicker than the one that comes with the RW-2000, but only because it is not woven as tightly (still a fantastic cable). I prefer the case that comes with the RW-2000 because it is smaller overall, but easy to put the buds in. The one that comes with the RW-3000 is huge but doesn't have as much room inside to fit the buds (it is still really nice though). 

As for sound, it is really different from the RW-2000. They decreased the quantity of bass (but it is still boosted compared to most other buds); especially the upper bass which is what gave the RW-2000 the much richer and fuller sound. On the other hand, this also makes the RW-3000's timbre more accurate sounding to my ears. They boosted the treble quite a bit (or at least parts of it), giving exceptional clarity and airyness. No longer can these be considered warm but with a boost to pina gain. There IS a boost to the pina gain, but I don't believe they took it further than the RW-2000 had; it only seems that way because they decreased the bass presence. I would call these neutral to bright on the macro level. 

The mids is where the massive improvement is on the RW-3000. Because of the boosted treble (some might find it too much, but I don't at all), and the revealing nature of the presence region, mids are no longer as dull... I wouldn't say that they are more forward than before, but they have gained an incredible amount of clarity. 

Someone asked me if they were worth the $100-$150 more that one pays over the RW-2000, and I would say that it depends if you like the signature or not (they really are now a different signature than the RW-2000). Also, are they worth $300 in general? Well, again I would say that depends. For me, I say yes, because overall these sound better than most single DD IEMs I have heard in this price category (and somewhere above too). I WILL say that so far they are better in almost every way than the RW-2000. I would ALMOST put them up against the Chaconne (as it stand right now). They seem pretty close in sound, but with more quanty of bass, and a bit more aggressive up top. Clarity and Micro details seem to be there (I'll know more after some A/B'ing). 

But, I will share more when I have had a chance to listen more. Sorry so long!


----------



## mt877

Ronion said:


> I always cut my foams to fit over the hook part of the ear hooks.  You cut them in the same fashion you would cut the crust off of a section of pie and then place the hook through the resultant hole.
> 
> 
> And just so you guys know, I wouldn't recommend the ST20 pro to anyone without stipulating the need for dramatic EQ, modification, and/or fit efforts, but in truth, they are the best bud I've ever heard as far as technicalities go.  They do have that screaming banshie upper mids straight out of the box and a virtually impossible fit, but once those things are dealt with they are incredible even through BlueTooth.  They require at least 2V to power them as well.  4V is perfect!


Excellent description of how to cut / slit the foam at the seam to create a hole for the earhook to go through. I haven't had to use earhooks / supports except for on the LinkBuds, but that's a different animal.


----------



## baskingshark

samandhi said:


> Got my package finally today after only 7 days shipping within the USA... LOL
> 
> My first impressions are that the RW-3000 is a re-tuning of the RW-2000. The shell has some very small differences in the way they were CNC'ed, all aesthetically done. The overall bud itself is exactly the same IMO (not sure if the driver is different though). The cable is thicker than the one that comes with the RW-2000, but only because it is not woven as tightly (still a fantastic cable). I prefer the case that comes with the RW-2000 because it is smaller overall, but easy to put the buds in. The one that comes with the RW-3000 is huge but doesn't have as much room inside to fit the buds (it is still really nice though).
> 
> ...



Thanks for taking one for the team man!

I already found the RW2000's pinna gain to be on the fence between shoutiness and forwardness, on some tracks (via neutral source). So will probably skip this RW3000 if the bass is less (this may make the pinna gain more prominent based on a see-saw effect with lesser bass).


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Got my package finally today after only 7 days shipping within the USA... LOL
> 
> My first impressions are that the RW-3000 is a re-tuning of the RW-2000. The shell has some very small differences in the way they were CNC'ed, all aesthetically done. The overall bud itself is exactly the same IMO (not sure if the driver is different though). The cable is thicker than the one that comes with the RW-2000, but only because it is not woven as tightly (still a fantastic cable). I prefer the case that comes with the RW-2000 because it is smaller overall, but easy to put the buds in. The one that comes with the RW-3000 is huge but doesn't have as much room inside to fit the buds (it is still really nice though).
> 
> ...


Wow, thanks for the mini review. The anticipation level just went up a couple notches. I hope mine arrive soon.


----------



## mt877 (Mar 29, 2022)

vygas said:


> I'm willing to bet money that the Shozy Gold is a similar story to the Shozy BK. Tuned warmer, and uses a more expensive cable than their little brother (in this case the SG).


The Shozy BK will set you back roughly $170. It has the same more expensive cable as the Gold, so that would leave only the tuning and being a limited edition to more than double the price of SG which is about $140. There better be a bit more "magic sauce" to account for the Gold pricing.

Edit: What I mean by the "magic sauce" is a better description on the Penon webpage for the Gold's. If you want to attract attention, you have to make a compelling description so people know why or where their spend is going toward.


----------



## axhng

new budget earbuds from nicehck in the form of lucky bag again. haven't seen any photos other than these teasers though.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004083704394.html


----------



## syazwaned

samandhi said:


> Got my package finally today after only 7 days shipping within the USA... LOL
> 
> My first impressions are that the RW-3000 is a re-tuning of the RW-2000. The shell has some very small differences in the way they were CNC'ed, all aesthetically done. The overall bud itself is exactly the same IMO (not sure if the driver is different though). The cable is thicker than the one that comes with the RW-2000, but only because it is not woven as tightly (still a fantastic cable). I prefer the case that comes with the RW-2000 because it is smaller overall, but easy to put the buds in. The one that comes with the RW-3000 is huge but doesn't have as much room inside to fit the buds (it is still really nice though).
> 
> ...


How comfortable it is on your ears? I found chaconne way to heavy for long listening session.


----------



## baskingshark

axhng said:


> new budget earbuds from nicehck in the form of lucky bag again. haven't seen any photos other than these teasers though.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004083704394.html



Good pickup!

The NiceHCK Traceless also uses a 15.4 mm driver, but IIRC it was red and blue and not these psychedelic colours. Very tempted to click buy, but have too many budget earbuds at home and sneaking another budget earbud past the wife/hawk may be tough. Must keep the powder dry for a earbud that is a clear upgrade, rather than sidegrade pokemons!


----------



## piknikkopi

mt877 said:


> A concern is the fitting of foams (for tuning) and the earhooks at the same time. I can't imagine putting foams over the earhooks, and putting the earhooks over foams could be a slight task as well?



I'm giving up on MX500 shells already as other shell fits better and I realize the foams make it worse, will probably try earhooks without the foam




FranQL said:


> Well, of those, I would opt for a PK diy, specifically PK 150 Ohm transparent film, it costs around €35
> 
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_vKjiKk



Another question for the tonality of this unit, any idea what's it look like?
I found that most earbuds are vocal-forward, but is there any less vocal forward pair with good detail? Most of my library is jazz and its derivatives


----------



## Gifting (Mar 29, 2022)

Hi everyone, I don't know if anyone is familiar with the earbuds Tingo tc200. I recently ordered them from Aliexpress about a month ago. I liked them but it was a bit trebly (had to put foams on). Then I saw a few comments on Head-fi and Reddit about the "old version" of the tc200 sounding better. Does anyone know where to find that old version? I have trouble finding information about this. Maybe they were trolling? I got mine from this store: 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32687542028.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.14545c57237hTa&algo_pvid=22ab1c77-0f26-4871-b6b6-0b2ab57a9ad0&algo_exp_id=22ab1c77-0f26-4871-b6b6-0b2ab57a9ad0-0&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"67027828990"}&pdp_pi=-1;7.59;-1;-1@salePrice;USD;search-mainSearch

I don't know if this one is the old version or not. Thank you for reading.


----------



## jeejack

Good price for LCP earbuds
Customized DIY 3.5mm Jack 15.4mm LCP Speaker unit Earphones Flat Earbuds with Microphone
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mL5omUe


----------



## axhng

baskingshark said:


> Good pickup!
> 
> The NiceHCK Traceless also uses a 15.4 mm driver, but IIRC it was red and blue and not these psychedelic colours. Very tempted to click buy, but have too many budget earbuds at home and sneaking another budget earbud past the wife/hawk may be tough. Must keep the powder dry for a earbud that is a clear upgrade, rather than sidegrade pokemons!


I just wonder if it's going to be a new shell or just a coloured mx500 shell. I had no plans to buy or try any more earphones, but it's cheap enough that I just ordered one anyway just for fun. 😂


----------



## FranQL (Mar 29, 2022)

piknikkopi said:


> I'm giving up on MX500 shells already as other shell fits better and I realize the foams make it worse, will probably try earhooks without the foam
> 
> Another question for the tonality of this unit, any idea what's it look like?
> I found that most earbuds are vocal-forward, but is there any less vocal forward pair with good detail? Most of my library is jazz and its derivatives



PK 150 is a great sound, and a good tonality, with modest detail but good laterality and depth, not particularly outstanding but IMO they do nothing wrong. I'm not much good of a sound describer, sorry.

I still use them today and a few weeks ago I used the driver to do this UPGRADE


----------



## WoodyLuvr

piknikkopi said:


> I found that most earbuds are vocal-forward, but is there any less vocal forward pair with good detail? Most of my library is jazz and its derivatives


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16813051


----------



## piknikkopi (Mar 29, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16813051



Gotcha, after a little bit of reading, earbuds would almost always be mid-centric, and what could be moved around would be whether the mids is more toward the warm side or the opposite. It's now a matter of whether the units has better detail, sparkle, separation, or basically the technicalities then.




FranQL said:


> PK 150 is a great sound, and a good tonality, with modest detail but good laterality and depth, not particularly outstanding but IMO they do nothing wrong. I'm not much good of a sound describer, sorry.
> 
> I still use them today and a few weeks ago I used the driver to do this UPGRADE



Are you referring to the Yuin PK1 driver with 150 ohm impedance? Do you need a really strong amp to power this pair?


----------



## jeejack

FranQL said:


> PK 150 is a great sound, and a good tonality, with modest detail but good laterality and depth, not particularly outstanding but IMO they do nothing wrong. I'm not much good of a sound describer, sorry.
> 
> I still use them today and a few weeks ago I used the driver to do this UPGRADE



Totally agree


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 29, 2022)

piknikkopi said:


> Gotcha, after a little bit of reading, earbuds would almost always be mid-centric, and what could be moved around would be whether the mids is more toward the warm side or the opposite. It's now a matter of whether the units has better detail, sparkle, separation, or basically the technicalities then.


Correct; nearly every earbud that I have had the opportunity to listen to has exhibited a primary mid-centric sound signature and that is simply due to being of open-air design. With that said, there are indeed a number of earbuds with very strong secondary signatures that may and do pull their sound signature (tuning) to other areas. 

Some earbuds to consider that are less mid-centric (mid-forward) than others would be *Ks Bell-LBBs*, *FiiO EM5*, and the *Moondrop Chaconne*. There are also the *Astrotec Lyra* models to consider but do be aware that they tend to be extremely bright with wonky sounding timbre to a many earbud enthusiast. Also, please be warned that both Ksearphone and FiiO have most unfortunately suffered some concerning QA/QC issues that you should be made well aware of before purchasing. The *NiceHCK EBX21* is probably the least mid-centric earbud that I have ever heard but it too can be overly bright and harsh, as well as super critical with certain recordings and genres.


----------



## baskingshark

WoodyLuvr said:


> Correct; nearly every earbud that I have had the opportunity to listen to has exhibited a primary mid-centric sound signature and that is simply due to being of open-air design. With that said, there are indeed a number of earbuds with very strong secondary signatures that may and do pull their sound signature (tuning) to other areas.
> 
> Some earbuds to consider that are less mid-centric (mid-forward) than others would be *Ks Bell-LBBs*, *FiiO EM5*, and the *Moondrop Chaconne*. There are also the *Astrotec Lyra* models to consider but do be aware that they tend to be extremely bright with wonky sounding timbre to a many earbud enthusiast. Also, please be warned that both Ksearphone and FiiO have most unfortunately suffered some concerning QA/QC issues that you should be made well aware of before purchasing. The *NiceHCK EBX21* is probably the least mid-centric earbud that I have ever heard but it too can be overly bright and harsh, as well as super critical with certain recordings and genres.
> 
> ​



Great advise!

Interestingly, one of the rarer V shaped earbuds I've tried is the HE150 Pro (not to be confused with the non Pro version). This set has quite recessed lower mids with big bass. Needs amping though, but it actually sounds like a budget IEM (where V shaped signatures are dime a dozen).


----------



## jao29

piknikkopi said:


> piknikkopi said:
> 
> 
> > Another question for the tonality of this unit, any idea what's it look like?
> > I found that most earbuds are vocal-forward, but is there any less vocal forward pair with good detail? Most of my library is jazz and its derivatives.


Try the Monk Plus if you can. You explained it’s sound sig perfectly. It’s mids are a bit veiled but the top end has decent sparkle. It has the standard Mx500 shell though.


----------



## syazwaned

WoodyLuvr said:


> I humbly would like to offer some '_food for thought_' in regards to sound signatures especially in regards to earbuds.
> 
> *A BRIEF STUDY OF EARBUD SOUND SIGNATURES*
> Although, earbuds do exhibit *strong/weak secondary* and/or *complementing/opposing tertiary* signatures that may reach out towards *U-Shaped* and *V-Shaped* tuning, their *primary* signature are generally and heavily *Mid-Centric *which is inherent of and intrinsic to their open-air (open-back like) design. Thus, explaining why earbuds tend to lean more heavily towards *W-Shaped* mid-forward sounding tuning. Often forgotten and/or misunderstood a *W-Shaped* sound signature is one that has emphasized bass, midrange, and treble (lows, mids, & highs)... completely opposite of a *Flat* sound signature that doesn't have emphasized lows, mids, or highs.
> ...


I love the visualization of the chart. Is it possible to include Fiio EM5 and Rw3000 as well?


----------



## piknikkopi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Correct; nearly every earbud that I have had the opportunity to listen to has exhibited a primary mid-centric sound signature and that is simply due to being of open-air design. With that said, there are indeed a number of earbuds with very strong secondary signatures that may and do pull their sound signature (tuning) to other areas.
> 
> Some earbuds to consider that are less mid-centric (mid-forward) than others would be *Ks Bell-LBBs*, *FiiO EM5*, and the *Moondrop Chaconne*. There are also the *Astrotec Lyra* models to consider but do be aware that they tend to be extremely bright with wonky sounding timbre to a many earbud enthusiast. Also, please be warned that both Ksearphone and FiiO have most unfortunately suffered some concerning QA/QC issues that you should be made well aware of before purchasing. The *NiceHCK EBX21* is probably the least mid-centric earbud that I have ever heard but it too can be overly bright and harsh, as well as super critical with certain recordings and genres.
> 
> ​





baskingshark said:


> Great advise!
> 
> Interestingly, one of the rarer V shaped earbuds I've tried is the HE150 Pro (not to be confused with the non Pro version). This set has quite recessed lower mids with big bass. Needs amping though, but it actually sounds like a budget IEM (where V shaped signatures are dime a dozen).



Gotcha, I now have on my list the LBBs and the HE150 Pro.
Need to do my own research on reviews on those two, those are more like my budget for now. Thanks for the rec!

Actually to add a little bit more, the reason why I'm looking for a less vocal centric is because I'm a little sensitive to upper mids which most of the time come in the form female vocal, or sometimes saxophone. There were a time when I was talking to owner of audio stores online where I live and most are recommending me Moondrop SSRs and I had to re-sell them right away when I got my hands on it. The upper mids a lot of the times are too painful, even with different pair of eartips.
I wouldn't mind the mids if it's more forward on like let's say male vocals, long as the bass is not flooding the lower mids. But I also don't mind bright pair as long as the upper mids are not that forward.




jao29 said:


> Try the Monk Plus if you can. You explained it’s sound sig perfectly. It’s mids are a bit veiled but the top end has decent sparkle. It has the standard Mx500 shell though.



I know.. But it's cheap and earhooks are on the way. I'll take a chance on this. Thanks! 
But do you have any opinion on VE Monk Plus vs Yincrow X6/RW-9? Rikudou Goku mentions it a lot in this thread and I remember reading Rikudou mentioning that the Yincrows are also kind of V-shape-ish


----------



## RikudouGoku

piknikkopi said:


> But do you have any opinion on VE Monk Plus vs Yincrow X6/RW-9? Rikudou Goku mentions it a lot in this thread and I remember reading Rikudou mentioning that the Yincrows are also kind of V-shape-ish


RW-9 is the more v-shaped one compared to the X6. 

Monk plus was the first bud I tried and almost my last.


----------



## jao29

piknikkopi said:


> Gotcha, I now have on my list the LBBs and the HE150 Pro.
> Need to do my own research on reviews on those two, those are more like my budget for now. Thanks for the rec!
> 
> Actually to add a little bit more, the reason why I'm looking for a less vocal centric is because I'm a little sensitive to upper mids which most of the time come in the form female vocal, or sometimes saxophone. There were a time when I was talking to owner of audio stores online where I live and most are recommending me Moondrop SSRs and I had to re-sell them right away when I got my hands on it. The upper mids a lot of the times are too painful, even with different pair of eartips.
> ...


Hmm.. The X6 is a tad bassier than the Rw9 and given your circumstance I’d advise you to try the RW9 over the X6. If you want a basshead earbud, try the Willsound mkii as that is the direct upgrade over the X6.

The Monk Plus has leaner bass compared to the Yincrow brothers and somewhat veiled mids but it’s offset by the treble. It has decent sparkle at the top end which may be the one you’re looking for.

Basically get the RW9 and Monk Plus as they have different sound sigs. 

Get the Willsound Mkii over the X6 if you want a basshead earbud.


----------



## baskingshark

piknikkopi said:


> Gotcha, I now have on my list the LBBs and the HE150 Pro.
> Need to do my own research on reviews on those two, those are more like my budget for now. Thanks for the rec!
> 
> Actually to add a little bit more, the reason why I'm looking for a less vocal centric is because I'm a little sensitive to upper mids which most of the time come in the form female vocal, or sometimes saxophone. There were a time when I was talking to owner of audio stores online where I live and most are recommending me Moondrop SSRs and I had to re-sell them right away when I got my hands on it. The upper mids a lot of the times are too painful, even with different pair of eartips.
> I wouldn't mind the mids if it's more forward on like let's say male vocals, long as the bass is not flooding the lower mids. But I also don't mind bright pair as long as the upper mids are not that forward.



The HE150 Pro has a bit of a forward upper mids. When underpowered the upper mids can be shouty, but with adequate amping the upper mids are slightly forward without being fatiguing. The HE150 Pro is quite tough to drive (150 ohm impedance), so it sounds bad on lower powered gear like non LG smartphones.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 29, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> Great advise!
> 
> Interestingly, one of the rarer V shaped earbuds I've tried is the HE150 Pro (not to be confused with the non Pro version). This set has quite recessed lower mids with big bass. Needs amping though, but it actually sounds like a budget IEM (where V shaped signatures are dime a dozen).





baskingshark said:


> The HE150 Pro has a bit of a forward upper mids. When underpowered the upper mids can be shouty, but with adequate amping the upper mids are slightly forward without being fatiguing. The HE150 Pro is quite tough to drive (150 ohm impedance), so it sounds bad on lower powered gear like non LG smartphones.


Nice! I had totally forgotten about the *HE150* and *HE 150PRO*! I personally had trouble liking the *2017 HE 150PRO (150Ω @ 103dB/M; aka Hi-Fi End)* due to this harsh upper midrange that you speak of, as well as a hard to bright lower treble region... I simply was just too sensitive to it but it was a nice signature and sounding earbud nonetheless. I still found the *HE 150PRO* and it's older brother the *2016 HE 150 (150Ω; aka Hi-Fi End)* to be both still rather mid-centric in regards to their primary sound signature though... though I must admit that the *HE 150PRO* _*sure does have a very dominating and rather strong secondary signature that reaches out hard to somewhere in between a "U" and "V" shape*_ like you said as the upper mids are indeed prominently forward (more U-Shape like) while the mid & upper bass bled rather hard into the lower midrange recessing it dramatically (so more V-Shape like).


----------



## WoodyLuvr

syazwaned said:


> I love the visualization of the chart. Is it possible to include Fiio EM5 and Rw3000 as well?


Here is a chart for the *FiiO EM5*... for some reason I have yet to make a chart for the *Yincrow RW-2000 or 3000* I will need to do that one day soon and post it.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

piknikkopi said:


> I found that most earbuds are vocal-forward, but is there any less vocal forward pair with good detail? Most of my library is jazz and its derivatives





piknikkopi said:


> Gotcha, after a little bit of reading, earbuds would almost always be mid-centric, and what could be moved around would be whether the mids is more toward the warm side or the opposite. It's now a matter of whether the units has better detail, sparkle, separation, or basically the technicalities then.





piknikkopi said:


> Actually to add a little bit more, the reason why I'm looking for a less vocal centric is because I'm a little sensitive to upper mids which most of the time come in the form female vocal, or sometimes saxophone. There were a time when I was talking to owner of audio stores online where I live and most are recommending me Moondrop SSRs and I had to re-sell them right away when I got my hands on it. The upper mids a lot of the times are too painful, even with different pair of eartips.
> I wouldn't mind the mids if it's more forward on like let's say male vocals, long as the bass is not flooding the lower mids. But I also don't mind bright pair as long as the upper mids are not that forward.


Here is one more chart that may help you in your quest (hunt):


----------



## vygas

mt877 said:


> The Shozy BK will set you back roughly $170. It has the same more expensive cable as the Gold, so that would leave only the tuning and being a limited edition to more than double the price of SG which is about $140. There better be a bit more "magic sauce" to account for the Gold pricing.
> 
> Edit: What I mean by the "magic sauce" is a better description on the Penon webpage for the Gold's. If you want to attract attention, you have to make a compelling description so people know why or where their spend is going toward.


All I hope is that if they are using the SG's driver, they better include some foams that don't make it sound peaky and completely ruin its dynamics.


----------



## mochill

axhng said:


> new budget earbuds from nicehck in the form of lucky bag again. haven't seen any photos other than these teasers though.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004083704394.html


I've bought the purple and green one


----------



## nomadik

FranQL said:


> PK 150 is a great sound, and a good tonality, with modest detail but good laterality and depth, not particularly outstanding but IMO they do nothing wrong. I'm not much good of a sound describer, sorry.
> 
> I still use them today and a few weeks ago I used the driver to do this UPGRADE


What a nice looking bud! It's the 14.8mm shell, right? I can't find anything like that on AE. Could you post a link for that shell and the "drivers cover"?


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for taking one for the team man!
> 
> I already found the RW2000's pinna gain to be on the fence between shoutiness and forwardness, on some tracks (via neutral source). So will probably skip this RW3000 if the bass is less (this may make the pinna gain more prominent based on a see-saw effect with lesser bass).


I AM a team player after all... 

Yeah, I think that if the RW-2000 are ALMOST harsh in the presence region to you, these might seem that way also; though the more I listen to them, I am almost thinking they reduced it a tad bit, since they increased the treble (no need for the "illusion" of clarity any more).

A disappointing part of these is that the sub-bass is almost a cliff, the way it takes a nose-dive. If I set up a low shelf at 63Hz of +4dB, it makes things a ton better. It isn't like anything is missing without it, but the songs that call for that really low bass just don't sound right without it. I does have plenty of mid-bass, then dips down again in the upper bass, and stays pretty linear until the upper mid and treble. All this is just listening, I have not seen any attempt at a graph for these, so I could be totally off, and it may change tomorrow as I get more ear time.

These are super at detail retrieval though. This is a good thing AND a bad thing. If you have any poor-quality music, your ears will be punished for it. Also, I would say that the treble could be more harsh for some than the upper mids. Though, I hear no sibilance (the true defition thereof), or harsh esses except on low quality music. But, I can also hear vinyl pops and crackles almost louder than the rest of the music sometimes (in quiet passages).


mt877 said:


> Wow, thanks for the mini review. The anticipation level just went up a couple notches. I hope mine arrive soon.


Let us know your thoughts when you get them. I am interested to hear how your opinion varies or agrees with mine?!


syazwaned said:


> How comfortable it is on your ears? I found chaconne way to heavy for long listening session.


These fit exactly the same as the RW-2000 if you have ever had those in your ear. If not, they are heavier than all the plastic ones, because the shell is metallic, but they aren't super heavy (I believe it is something like aircraft aluminum). I think the comfort issues with the Chaconne derive from not only being made of steel, but the stems that are so long make them top heavy. Their natural position is: trying to fall out of your ear at all times...  Overall, I can listen to the RW-3000 all day; I have done just that the last 2 days at work. The Chaconne, I can listen to them for a few hours, and then have to rest a bit (but they aren't really uncomfortable for me even then).


----------



## Ronion (Mar 29, 2022)

these Look interesting as well @jeejack !  Elfinear has entered the arena of DIY-like buds.  Great drivers and pretty shells for cheap.  I wonder how much effort they put into tuning.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 30, 2022)

axhng said:


> new budget earbuds from nicehck in the form of lucky bag again. haven't seen any photos other than these teasers though.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004083704394.html





baskingshark said:


> Good pickup!
> 
> The NiceHCK Traceless also uses a 15.4 mm driver, but IIRC it was red and blue and not these psychedelic colours. Very tempted to click buy, but have too many budget earbuds at home and sneaking another budget earbud past the wife/hawk may be tough. Must keep the powder dry for a earbud that is a clear upgrade, rather than sidegrade pokemons!





mochill said:


> I've bought the purple and green one


Interesting. Unknown what it truly is until after the *Lucky Bag Sale* is over as it is at an intro reduced price with mystery specs... but I think many of us do suspect that it may simply be a _clear shelled version_ of the *2020 - NiceHCK Traceless (32Ω; Vido Variant) *which also uses a 15.4mm driver. Time will tell. Not long.


----------



## captione

WoodyLuvr said:


> Interesting. Unknown what it truly is until after the *Lucky Bag Sale* is over as it is at an intro reduced price with mystery specs... but I think many of us do suspect that it may simply be a _clear shelled version_ of the *2020 - NiceHCK Traceless (32Ω; Vido Variant) *which also uses a 15.4mm driver. Time will tell. Not long.


Hard skip for me if it's the same Vido driver.


----------



## Penon

mt877 said:


> Very nice, but wrong timing for me. What do the Gold have over the BK Stardust (sound quality)?
> 
> Edit: My thoughts are the Gold is SG on steroids? Upgraded cable and according to penon listing, bronze nickle plated shell. So I guess a better comparison would be Gold vs SG?


SHOZY Gold is a complete upgrade of the BK, it also has the sound of the speakers.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Mar 30, 2022)

Ronion said:


> these Look interesting as well @jeejack !  Elfinear has entered the arena of DIY-like buds.  Great drivers and pretty shells for cheap.  I wonder how much effort they put into tuning.


Awesome thanks for the head's up! Curious, as I completely had missed their earlier launch end of last year (2021). These new 2022 models look quite interesting and I too also wonder how good (or bad) the tuning is. What an incredible spread of different impedances offered... ten (10) different drivers available for each of the six (6) models! Sixty (60) different combinations! Duly added to the *ƎAЯ8UDS TIME⅃IИƎ*!

*Elf In Ear aka ELFINEAR*​Shenzhen Elfinear Co., Ltd.​Shenzhen Elfinear Acoustics Co., Ltd.​​2021 - ELFINEAR 150 Graphene (150Ω)​2021 - ELFINEAR MMCX Earbuds w/ Mic (32/40Ω)​2021 - ELFINEAR S300 HiFi (300Ω)​2021 - ELFINEAR S600 HiFi (600Ω)​2021 - ELFINEAR S600 Hifi Kunlun (600Ω)​​2022 - ELFINEAR Blue Prints (18/32/64/130/150/150 BASS/300/400/500/600Ω)​2022 - ELFINEAR Carbon Fiber (18/32/64/130/150/150 BASS/300/400/500/600Ω)​2022 - ELFINEAR Color Prints (18/32/64/130/150/150 BASS/300/400/500/600Ω)​2022 - ELFINEAR Flowers (18/32/64/130/150/150 BASS/300/400/500/600Ω)​2022 - ELFINEAR Marble White/Black (18/32/64/130/150/150 BASS/300/400/500/600Ω)​2022 - ELFINEAR Wooden White/Black (18/32/64/130/150/150 BASS/300/400/500/600Ω)​


----------



## captione

WoodyLuvr said:


> Awesome thanks for the head's up! Curious, as I completely had missed their earlier launch end of last year (2021). These new 2022 models look quite interesting and I too also wonder how good (or bad) the tuning is. What an incredible spread of different impedances offered... ten (10) different drivers available for each of the six (6) models! Sixty (60) different combinations! Duly added to the *ƎAЯ8UDS TIME⅃IИƎ*!
> 
> *Elf In Ear aka ELFINEAR*​Shenzhen Elfinear Co., Ltd.​Shenzhen Elfinear Acoustics Co., Ltd.​​2021 - ELFINEAR 150 Graphene (150Ω)​2021 - ELFINEAR MMCX Earbuds w/ Mic (32/40Ω)​2021 - ELFINEAR S300 HiFi (300Ω)​2021 - ELFINEAR S600 HiFi (600Ω)​2021 - ELFINEAR S600 Hifi Kunlun (600Ω)​​2022 - ELFINEAR Blue Prints (18/32/64/130/150/150 BASS/300/400/500/600Ω)​2022 - ELFINEAR Carbon Fiber (18/32/64/130/150/150 BASS/300/400/500/600Ω)​2022 - ELFINEAR Color Prints (18/32/64/130/150/150 BASS/300/400/500/600Ω)​2022 - ELFINEAR Flowers (18/32/64/130/150/150 BASS/300/400/500/600Ω)​2022 - ELFINEAR Marble White/Black (18/32/64/130/150/150 BASS/300/400/500/600Ω)​2022 - ELFINEAR Wooden White/Black (18/32/64/130/150/150 BASS/300/400/500/600Ω)​


They're also doing OEM driver manufacture work for some big earbud brands like VE, FAAEAL and Ksearphone (early versions of their earbuds). 
If you opened up a Snow Lotus and a VE Monk Plus, you will see the same PCB from the 64ohm drivers that are sold thru Elfinear's AliEx website.
They used to have an Alibaba page, but has migrated from AliEx since it disappeared from it. They're also called Qigom, probably branding reasons..?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

captione said:


> They're also doing OEM driver manufacture work for some big earbud brands like VE, FAAEAL and Ksearphone (early versions of their earbuds).
> If you opened up a Snow Lotus and a VE Monk Plus, you will see the same PCB from the 64ohm drivers that are sold thru Elfinear's AliEx website.
> They used to have an Alibaba page, but has migrated from AliEx since it disappeared from it. They're also called Qigom, probably branding reasons..?


Thank you for that interesting aside. I know QIGOM but had no idea it was affiliated with ELFINEAR. Great info!


----------



## syazwaned

WoodyLuvr said:


> Here is a chart for the *FiiO EM5*... for some reason I have yet to make a chart for the *Yincrow RW-2000 or 3000* I will need to do that one day soon and post it.
> 
> ​




Thank you for doing this @WoodyLuvr . Greatly appreciate it.


samandhi said:


> These fit exactly the same as the RW-2000 if you have ever had those in your ear. If not, they are heavier than all the plastic ones, because the shell is metallic, but they aren't super heavy (I believe it is something like aircraft aluminum). I think the comfort issues with the Chaconne derive from not only being made of steel, but the stems that are so long make them top heavy. Their natural position is: trying to fall out of your ear at all times...  Overall, I can listen to the RW-3000 all day; I have done just that the last 2 days at work. The Chaconne, I can listen to them for a few hours, and then have to rest a bit (but they aren't really uncomfortable for me even then).


Ah, that's good to hear ! Thanks!


----------



## Sam L

samandhi said:


> Four if you REALLY want to be sure.


ok, I give in... someone dm me contact info for newbsound. How do I get one?


----------



## Sam L

WoodyLuvr said:


> Here is a chart for the *FiiO EM5*... for some reason I have yet to make a chart for the *Yincrow RW-2000 or 3000* I will need to do that one day soon and post it.
> 
> ​


@WoodyLuvr Thank you for posting your charts. I'm embarrassed to admit I haven't really paid attention to them until you posted this one on the em5. A couple questions:

1. is the red oval, the fundamental sound profile?
2. are the blue bubbles the bass and treble characteristics?


----------



## Sam L

Sam L said:


> @WoodyLuvr Thank you for posting your charts. I'm embarrassed to admit I haven't really paid attention to them until you posted this one on the em5. A couple questions:
> 
> 1. is the red oval, the fundamental sound profile?
> 2. are the blue bubbles the bass and treble characteristics?


nm, i see your link the the explainer post in your signature


----------



## meryjanek37

2022 NiceHCK SALE Flagship Product (Far below cost, It is flagship metal MMCX earbud)​https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100....store_pc_groupList.8148356.22.1e74769c7cqZdI


*Information of the SALE product:*

① This is a earbud with metal housing!
It is Flagship model, and it is MMCX detachable design!

② The original price is about US $220.
The SALE price is very very very cheap.

③ This is a clearance sale.
The SALE price is far lower than the cost.

④ Limited quantity.
And please note: Available while stock lasts.

⑤ Its sound quality is very very good.
This is true flagship level sound quality.

NiceHCK EBX21 or *Smabat Super One  ?*​


----------



## Sam L (Mar 30, 2022)

Just got this in from the gentleman north of me (I'm in california and he's not in the U.S.).

I'm really impressed with how these buds were tuned -- I can now forget eq'ing. No need, as these pretty much match my ideal earbud target curve. I'm now curious about what the custom makers produce.




Very non-descript and the cabling while decent is not the most refined braiding. But honestly I don't care and it's consistent with my aesthetic (just give me good sound. I don't care what my earbud looks like.)

At the moment, this bud is my best sounding bud for my library and sound quality preference.


----------



## emusic13

Sam L said:


> Just got this in from the gentleman north of me (I'm in california and he's not in the U.S.).
> 
> I'm really impressed with how these buds were tuned -- I can now forget eq'ing. No need, as these pretty much match my ideal earbud target curve. I'm now curious about what the custom makers produce.
> 
> ...


If you dont mind telling, how much are they?


----------



## Sam L

emusic13 said:


> If you dont mind telling, how much are they?


dm sent


----------



## Sam L

newbsound contact info please. I'd like to get one!  Google isn't turning up anything. DM the info, if you have it. thx!


----------



## jogawag

Sam L said:


> newbsound contact info please. I'd like to get one!  Google isn't turning up anything. DM the info, if you have it. thx!


You need to contact @irv003 to buy it.


----------



## mt877

Something arrived today... an unboxing...



Spoiler: What is it?











Spoiler: Very nice indeed...











Spoiler: With numerous goodies...



Plenty of regular and donut foams. Even though I ordered the 4.4mm balanced version I was totally surprised 
that the plug end can be swapped out. 2.5mm balanced and 3.5mm SE swappable plug ends were included.

Yincrow RW-3000


----------



## FranQL

mt877 said:


> Something arrived today... an unboxing...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



looks awesome, too bad it's terribly expensive


----------



## mt877 (Apr 1, 2022)

FranQL said:


> looks awesome, too bad it's terribly expensive


I agree, it is expensive. Luckily I did buy when it was on sale and saved roughly $60. Bud prices are catching up to IEM prices, in some cases exceeding IEM prices. I think as manufacturers continue to see that there is market demand and that people are willing to pay, the pricing will continue to rise. I don't plan on making anymore expensive bud purchases for the foreseeable future. For the short listening time I've had with the RW-3000 I can say that they have exception sound. Can DIY'ers replicate the sound at reasonably cheaper cost? It is probably possible?

Edit: Correct spelling


----------



## FranQL (Apr 1, 2022)

mt877 said:


> I agree, it is expensive. Luckily I did buy when it was on sale and saved roughly $60. Bud prices are catching up to IEM prices, in some cases exceeding IEM prices. I think as manufacturers continue to see that there is market demand and that people are willing to pay, the pricing will continue to rise. I don't plan on making anymore expensive bud purchases for the foreseeable future. For the short listening time I've had with the RW-3000 I can say that they have exception sound. Can DYI'ers replicate the sound at reasonably cheaper cost? It is probably possible?



I can not know, I do not have Bud TOLT to be able to affirm something like that


----------



## Setmagic (Apr 1, 2022)

mt877 said:


> Can DYI'ers replicate the sound at reasonably cheaper cost? It is probably possible?


Without the same driver and shell i doubt it.
But if You have it already, You can buy some components and Do It Yourself.

I made buds for ~5$ and this is no joke - they are amazing i will give it for all my wired-stayers friends.


----------



## Setmagic

My new project will be portable amplifier.

Good amplifies are expensive, but not if You Do It Yourself.

I have few desktop Hi-End DIY made by myself based on ideas of genius engereers like Nelson Pass.
I will share my results here.

I'm not sure if I will show schematics.
Someone can just "borrow" it and resell with 10+ times price or big company's just make me disappear


----------



## Sam L

mt877 said:


> I agree, it is expensive. Luckily I did buy when it was on sale and saved roughly $60. Bud prices are catching up to IEM prices, in some cases exceeding IEM prices. I think as manufacturers continue to see that there is market demand and that people are willing to pay, the pricing will continue to rise. I don't plan on making anymore expensive bud purchases for the foreseeable future. For the short listening time I've had with the RW-3000 I can say that they have exception sound. Can DYI'ers replicate the sound at reasonably cheaper cost? It is probably possible?


Yes, I think so. While I don't have that model, I have a handful of other upper-tier buds and diy models sound as good or better.


----------



## mt877

Sam L said:


> Yes, I think so. While I don't have that model, I have a handful of other upper-tier buds and diy models sound as good or better.


I believe it can be done as well. There are probably several fine folk here that have gained the DIY knowledge and learned the characteristics of any required components to get excellent results.


----------



## rkw

mt877 said:


> Bud prices are catching up to IEM prices, in some cases exceeding IEM prices.


Not even close . Top level buds are approaching $500. That's barely mid tier for IEM.


----------



## mt877 (Apr 1, 2022)

rkw said:


> Not even close . Top level buds are approaching $500. That's barely mid tier for IEM.


Hey, hey I didn't mention tier levels, just that prices are catching up, LOL. I guess once buds start migrating to hybrid tech (DD/multi-BA) prices will really climb(?), unless they're manufactured by KZ. If the top level is at $500 right now, then the Yincrow RW-3000 is in the upper mid-level price bracket , nothing to complain about then.

Not that I'm complaining, I did buy them willingly. Now if they were total junk, then yup, there would be a whole lot of complaining.


----------



## Setmagic (Apr 1, 2022)

rkw said:


> Not even close . Top level buds are approaching $500. That's barely mid tier for IEM.


In IEMs, especailly CIEMs You can put 10 drivers, make a some kind of fancy chambers and sell it for 5000$

... and its passive noise canceling as well - so more usefull


----------



## ihaveears (Apr 2, 2022)

I'm starting to really like earbuds. I haven't been impressed with the sound quality of one yet (for the price, though, definitely) but they're just so convenient. No isolation and being easy to pop out lets me wear them all day. I like how they sort of give the sensation of listening to speakers, but are as portable as iems.
So far I have
Vido recable (all, but i've been giving them away pretty fast)
RY4S+ 32 ohm mmcx
Faaeal Rosemary
Are there any more pre-made ones I should try before I start DIYing?
I don't really know what tuning I like for earbuds yet. I normally like etymotic, & also slightly bright but not painful tuning. I don't normally like a lot of bass, but am I right in thinking earbuds need it a bit elevated to sound natural?


----------



## Ronion (Apr 2, 2022)

I think all drivers need a little extra bass compared to flat to sound natural. The research done on the subject definitely agrees with my statement.  The reason for that is that speakers designed in an  anechoic chamber are usually Omni in the bass and some large degree narrower in the treble.  Once they are placed in a room, the sound power of the speaker will be reflected in the room and it’s what the people who mix and master your recordings will hear.  Couple that with how we hear sound from a stereo and you’ll understand why headphones should measure bassy.  Flat is thin.  Everyone knows it when they hear it, but no audiophile wants to be accused of being a bass head.


----------



## baskingshark

New Smabat earbuds:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004108955529.html
https://www.facebook.com/linhui20/posts/981305439420157

Called the M Professional and M Youth. One is a Titanium driver, the other is an LCP driver. $22 and $52 respectively.

Apparently SMABAT claims they have a similar acoustic structure to the Super One earbud, and is a baby version of it.




Spoiler: Warning: Photos, many, may take up data on the go!!!


----------



## Setmagic

baskingshark said:


> New Smabat earbuds:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004108955529.html
> https://www.facebook.com/linhui20/posts/981305439420157
> ...


Good news!
Thats pretty solid earbuds for that price.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

baskingshark said:


> New Smabat earbuds:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004108955529.html
> https://www.facebook.com/linhui20/posts/981305439420157
> ...


Nice, so confirmed it is a 40Ω driver and not 150Ω as indicated on their website specs. I went ahead and updated the *ƎAЯ8UDS TIME⅃IИƎ* and *Svara - Smabat (Shenzhen Smabat Technology Co., Ltd.) Model Timeline* with the correction for the M Pro and adding the M Youth.


----------



## mrfashion

Is there any consensus on the Fiio EM5 vs YC RW-3000?

I have the Fiio EM5's but would love to hear how the RW-3000 compare from someone who has or has listened to both.


----------



## ian91 (Apr 3, 2022)

I had the pleasure of checking out the Rose Technics Martini. Overall its a strong all-rounder that excels with electronic music, sporting _excellent_ bass but the midrange is somewhat soft around the edges for my tastes and vocals could be better. Check out the review!


----------



## mt877 (Apr 4, 2022)

mrfashion said:


> Is there any consensus on the Fiio EM5 vs YC RW-3000?
> 
> I have the Fiio EM5's but would love to hear how the RW-3000 compare from someone who has or has listened to both.


*FiiO EM5 vs Yincrow RW-3000*

Sound source: Mac Mini USB C > miniDSP HA-DSP (with DSP filtering off)

As a side note, at my computer I listen to music with Sennheiser HD 598SE open back headphones compensated to Harman headphone curve with the miniDSP HA-DSP.

*FiiO EM5 with donut foams notes:*

Overall balanced with bass emphasis. Midrange gets nice bass timbre for added fullness without getting dragged into the mud.
Treble is slightly rolled off, but details present, male vocals good, lose some edge in female vocals and instruments. Not fatiguing to listen to due to the treble roll off.

*Yincrow RW-3000 with donut foams notes:*

Overall well balanced, clean & clear mid-centric and treble emphasis, not lacking bass, but not as deep compared to EM5. Had to turn up the volume a little bit on the HA-DSP (compared to EM5) to bring out the true nature of the RW-3000.

*Synergy notes:*

The miniDSP HA-DSP is neutral (as a DSP should be!). With DSP filtering off the EM5's were easier to listen to, probably due to the slight treble roll off. The RW-3000 had better clarity, but wasn't as comfortable to listen to for an extended amount of time. Instead of donut foams, full foams would probably have increased the bass and toned down the highs.

My main goto DAPs are Sony ZX507 and ZX300 with WalkmanOne firmware. Sony DAPs are known for their warm sound signature. I also have a Shanling M3X which is more neutral sounding. The EM5 with donut foams pair well with the M3X, while the RW-3000 with donut foams pair well with either of the Sony DAPs.

EDIT: Another thought just occurred. Considering FiiO may have tuned the EM5 for best sound from their own DAPs / Amps (which I believe are neutral sounding) then it would make sense that they would sound good with other neutral sources.

In the end I don't think you could go wrong with either the EM5 or RW-3000. It depends on your own personal sound profile. I think your playback source will be a factor in what you experience. Also if you're not a purist and can live with some DSP (PEQ) tweaks, you'll probably get on with either of these buds no matter what your source.



Spoiler: So which one sounded closest (not exactly) to the Sennheiser HD 598SE(Harman compensated)?



FiiO EM5 without any DSP compensation.



Songs I used for A/B listening:

Billy Joel: Piano Man
Anuhea: Charismatic SOB
Euge Groove: Slow Jam
Aaron Copeland: Fanfare for The Common Man
Bonnie Raitt: I Can't Make You Love Me
Jake Shimabukuro: While My Guitar Gently Weeps
Mariah Carey: Love Takes Time
Frank Zappa: The Grand Wazoo
Sade: Your Love Is King
The Who: Quadrophenia
The Marshall Tucker Band: Searchin' For A Rainbow
Mindi Abair: The Joint


----------



## cod6793 (Apr 3, 2022)

Hi guys, I read the @ClieOS review of *DQSM PD21* and @WoodyLuvr tier-list. I'm finding more and more that earbuds are the best audio experience I've ever had, even though I've already tested iem, headphone and bookshelf. I already had the tc200, ry4s earbuds and now I have the Nicehck eb2s, which I loved. Tanchjim Oxygen is my main earphone now, but I want to replace this iem for an earbud of the same sound quality category, or better. I know they are different things, and I know the tonality limitations that the buds have. And i know that I won't have the similar tanchjim oxygen in the buds world.

I have in mind the DQSM PD21. *My point is:* Tonality wise, would I have the same (or better) level of sound quality on the PD21? Or would it be a downgrade? In other words: can PD21 compete in detail, resolution and technicalities with an iem like Oxygen/Olina, regardless of tonality?

Greetings from Brazil!


----------



## syazwaned

mt877 said:


> *FiiO EM5 vs Yincrow RW-3000*
> 
> Sound source: Mac Mini USB C > miniDSP HA-DSP (with DSP filtering off)
> 
> ...


Thank you for doing this bro


----------



## WoodyLuvr

cod6793 said:


> Hi guys, I read the @ClieOS review of *DQSM PD21* and @WoodyLuvr tier-list. I'm finding more and more that earbuds are the best audio experience I've ever had, even though I've already tested iem, headphone and bookshelf. I already had the tc200, ry4s earbuds and now I have the Nicehck eb2s, which I loved. Tanchjim Oxygen is my main earphone now, but I want to replace this iem for an earbud of the same sound quality category, or better. I know they are different things, and I know the tonality limitations that the buds have. And i know that I won't have the similar tanchjim oxygen in the buds world.
> 
> I have in mind the DQSM PD21. *My point is:* Tonality wise, would I have the same (or better) level of sound quality on the PD21? Or would it be a downgrade? In other words: can PD21 compete in detail, resolution and technicalities with an iem like Oxygen/Olina, regardless of tonality?
> 
> Greetings from Brazil!


Welcome to the fold and to the rabbit hole! Please provide us a few more details (*THE CHECKLIST*) so we may provide you a helpful recommendation or two. Cheers.


----------



## cod6793 (Apr 4, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Welcome to the fold and to the rabbit hole! Please provide us a few more details (*THE CHECKLIST*) so we may provide you a helpful recommendation or two. Cheers.


Hi WoodyLuvr, thanks for the reply. I got here mainly for your tier-list. Below are the specs to help with the recommendation:

*source* _(Smartphone > Spotfy + Shanling UP4 / Fiio KA3 / or other if upgrade is necessary)_
*preferred connection* _(3.5TRS, 4.4TRRS or 2.5TRRS)_
*listening level & session length* _(medium or low, to 2-3h sessions)_
*listening environment* _(office, home desktop, home listening room)_
*preferred sound signature* _(neutral or balanced, to bright, with good technique)_
*preferred music genre *_(thrash metal, hard rock, jazz, fusion, prog, i'm a all-rounder earphone hunter)_
*preferred shell and cushion type* _(anyone)_
_*preferred brand*_ _(preferably brands or models that sell on aliexpress, to facilitate importation in Brazil)_
*budget* _(200 usd maximum)_
*special need and/or consideration* _(detachable cable)_


----------



## Chessnaudio

cod6793 said:


> Hi WoodyLuvr, thanks for the reply. I got here mainly for your tier-list. Below are the specs to help with the recommendation:
> 
> *source* _(Smartphone > Spotfy + Shanling UP4 / Fiio KA3 / or other if upgrade is necessary)_
> *preferred connection* _(3.5TRS, 4.4TRRS or 2.5TRRS)_
> ...


Welcome into the rabbit hole. It is a bottomless pit of endless enjoyment and experimentation


----------



## cod6793

Chessnaudio said:


> Welcome into the rabbit hole. It is a bottomless pit of endless enjoyment and experimentation


leaving one hole and entering another


----------



## Setmagic

cod6793 said:


> leaving one hole and entering another


I hope buds will be healthier 😉


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 5, 2022)

cod6793 said:


> Hi guys, I read the @ClieOS review of *DQSM PD21* and @WoodyLuvr tier-list. I'm finding more and more that earbuds are the best audio experience I've ever had, even though I've already tested iem, headphone and bookshelf. I already had the tc200, ry4s earbuds and now I have the Nicehck eb2s, which I loved. Tanchjim Oxygen is my main earphone now, but I want to replace this iem for an earbud of the same sound quality category, or better. I know they are different things, and I know the tonality limitations that the buds have. And i know that I won't have the similar tanchjim oxygen in the buds world.
> 
> I have in mind the DQSM PD21. *My point is:* Tonality wise, would I have the same (or better) level of sound quality on the PD21? Or would it be a downgrade? In other words: can PD21 compete in detail, resolution and technicalities with an iem like Oxygen/Olina, regardless of tonality?
> 
> Greetings from Brazil!





cod6793 said:


> Hi WoodyLuvr, thanks for the reply. I got here mainly for your tier-list. Below are the specs to help with the recommendation:
> 
> *source* _(Smartphone > Spotfy + Shanling UP4 / Fiio KA3 / or other if upgrade is necessary)_
> *preferred connection* _(3.5TRS, 4.4TRRS or 2.5TRRS)_
> ...


A few to consider with _mmcx_ and a _semi-neutral bright_ _sound signature_ that would play well with those genres:

Under USD $200 would be the:
*NiceHCK Audio EBX21*; *•*•*•*•*•*•*• PT2021 147Ω*; *Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis*; and *Yincrow 野牛 'Bison' RW-2000*. (edit: *DQSM Audio PD21)*

Saving a little bit more money @ USD $300 you have the:
*FiiO EM5* and the *Rose Technics Maria II*.


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> A few to consider with _mmcx_ and a _semi-neutral bright_ _sound signature_ that would play well with those genres:
> 
> Under USD $200 would be the:
> *NiceHCK Audio EBX21*; *•*•*•*•*•*•*• PT2021 147Ω*; *Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis*; and *Yincrow 野牛 'Bison' RW-2000*.
> ...


Don't forget the Smabat M2S Pro?!


----------



## Vedemin

How is the Moondrop Chaconne? I'm coming from ThieAudio Legacy 3 (I don't like it that much) and before I had the Apple Earbuds (were alright for being free).

I really want details, soundstage, good treble extension and quite nice bass (I'm not a bass head but I love soundtracks like Dune or Doom, will they be good enough for them?)


----------



## samandhi

Vedemin said:


> How is the Moondrop Chaconne? I'm coming from ThieAudio Legacy 3 (I don't like it that much) and before I had the Apple Earbuds (were alright for being free).
> 
> I really want details, soundstage, good treble extension and quite nice bass (I'm not a bass head but I love soundtracks like Dune or Doom, will they be good enough for them?)


The Chaconne have some of the smoothest yet revealing tuning I have heard (in any form of head gear), but they lack any sort of quantity of bass. The texture and speed is there (and is absolutely fantastic), but it is very recessed compared to the rest of the frequency curve. For myself it depends on the type of music I listen to as to whether I add a bit of EQ to the lower end or not. Without EQ they are _the_ best for classical, and most jazz, etc... With EQ they become outstanding for all-rounders (IMHO). YMMV but these are (and have been) part of my end game for earbuds. Listening to something like Pink Floyd: The Wall in 24/192 (for instance) is absolutely euphoric, or dare I say ear-phoric?!

Also keep in mind they are fairly heavy and top heavy, so they aren't the greatest for being on the move (though I have managed it myself). That can be solved with some wings though (or earhooks). 

Just my point of view though!


----------



## mt877 (Apr 5, 2022)

I got these in the mail a couple days ago...










Welcome to the debut of RikuBuds earbuds model Berserker 1. I'll call them B1's for short.

If you've been following the Earbuds Round-Up thread, then you already know @RikudouGoku teased about introducing some buds that would be the ultimate Yincrow X6 upgrade. People teased and joked about it, but ultimately I think most everyone would like to see "One of their own" make it in this small niche market. I was one of the first... just behind @waynes world to make a commitment toward that goal and bought a set of the B1's.

Well RikudouGoku was good on his word. These buds are a a big upgrade over the X6's and deliver nice bass punch with a sub-bass focus that don't bleed all over the mids. Also somewhat of a surprise is that the treble is smooth and airy, not sharp and in your face. Not sure if it's just a small treble roll off, but makes for non-fatiguing listening experience.

Of course since I just spent some time intently listening to both Fiio EM5 and Yincrow RW-3000, I'll give a little comparison.

The sound signature leans toward the RW-3000. I guess that would be inevitable considering RikudouGoku was aiming for an upgrade over the Yincrow X6. I've listened to these buds side by side the RW-3000. The B1's have a touch more bass, the midrange is comparable and the treble is smoother. Where the B1's can't compare is the overall soundstage that the RW-3000 present.

Anyway, if you're looking to check these out for yourself just DM RikudouGoku, I'm sure he'll be happy to help you.


----------



## syazwaned

mt877 said:


> I got these in the mail a couple days ago...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


@RikudouGoku how much it is boss?


----------



## mt877

cod6793 said:


> leaving one hole and entering another


You have no choice... you will assimilate... you will assimilate


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 5, 2022)

mt877 said:


> You have no choice... you will assimilate... you will assimilate


Indeed... *we are flatheads, resistance is futile!*


----------



## mrfashion

mt877 said:


> FiiO EM5 vs Yincrow RW-3000


Thanks for this rundown. I think it'll be very useful for a lot of people here as they're in direct competition. 
I can back up what you said about the Fiio EM5 as well. After extensive testing, I also found the donut foams are the best.

I'll tell you what though, changing foams on the EM5 is a nightmare. That medical-grade 3D printed resin + rounded shape is a nightmare


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 6, 2022)

mrfashion said:


> Thanks for this rundown. I think it'll be very useful for a lot of people here as they're in direct competition.
> I can back up what you said about the Fiio EM5 as well. After extensive testing, I also found the donut foams are the best.
> 
> I'll tell you what though, changing foams on the EM5 is a nightmare. That medical-grade 3D printed resin + rounded shape is a nightmare


You haven't tried re-foaming Moondrop Chaconne or DQSM Audio Turandot! Talk about an exercise in futility! Both of these earbuds have shells that are slipperier than hell. One will definitely acquire dexterous fingers with surgical level precision after owning these two (2) earbuds for any length of time. But nonetheless we do hear and feel your anguish! With practice it will become easier and effortless... well maybe not quite effortless but definitely no longer those moments of infuriating madness accompanied by fits of cussing and heavy breathing.

*The List of Slippery Earbuds*
Rose Technics Martini
DQSM Audio Turandot
MoonDrop Chaconne
MoonDrop Liebesleid
Ksearphone w/ Final Acoustics Poseidon


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 5, 2022)

mt877 said:


> I got these in the mail a couple days ago...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awesome! My pair of Berserkers just arrived this morning!

Very well said about supporting "one of our own". I am more than willing to pay and pay extra to support a fellow earbud enthusiast, Modder, and/or DIY'er... it is money better spent than giving it away to faceless corporations that tend to exhibit suspect QA/QC practices; have piss poor customer service; and literally could not give a damn about me.

Regarding my Berserkers in white... I have only listened to the Interstellar Soundtrack but I can confirm that these are indeed bass cannons! Nearing that of my *Blur 256 PK16 White Face LE* (16Ω; Ultimate Basshead Limited Edition) which my wife swiped from me a few weeks back😡so they are a nice replacement in my stable. I too can confirm that thus far I am unable to detect any fatiguing naughtiness in the higher midrange or treble region. One special note is that this DIY MX32 19-21 Red Dot Ti driver actually scales well with power and responds favorably to higher gain which kind of surprised me. Another mention is the very low profile 3.5TRS termination and thin cabling which I prefer, vell done *@RikudouGoku *!



Spoiler: RikuBuds Berserker 1 - DIY MX32 19-21 Red Dot Ti 32Ω


----------



## RikudouGoku

syazwaned said:


> @RikudouGoku how much it is boss?


50 euro not including shipping.


----------



## Vedemin

RikudouGoku said:


> 50 euro not including shipping.


How would you say it compares to Moondrop Chaconne? I can pick one up for 190$ but 50€ is a MUCH better price (especially since I wouldn't need to ship it from US lol)


----------



## RikudouGoku

Vedemin said:


> How would you say it compares to Moondrop Chaconne? I can pick one up for 190$ but 50€ is a MUCH better price (especially since I wouldn't need to ship it from US lol)


Cant compare my stuff to branded ones due to biases and all that...


Although I can say that the Berserker 1 is drastically different from the Chaconne and is aiming at a completely different tonality.  So if you want the Chaconne, something more neutral, the Berserker 1 should not be in candidate list.


----------



## syazwaned

WoodyLuvr said:


> Awesome! My pair of Berserkers just arrived this morning!
> 
> Very well said about supporting "one of our own". I am more than willing to pay and pay extra to support a fellow earbud enthusiast, Modder, and/or DIY'er... it is money better spent than giving it away to faceless corporations that tend to exhibit suspect QA/QC practices; have piss poor customer service; and literally could not give a damn about me.
> 
> ...




Whoa, would it be at the God Tier Earbuds level? Been thinking on taking Fiio Em5, but B1 looks promising


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 5, 2022)

syazwaned said:


> Whoa, would it be at the God Tier Earbuds level? Been thinking on taking Fiio Em5, but B1 looks promising


I prefer these over FiiO EM5 any day... far less bright, not fatiguing (thus far), warmer and smoother with a nice bass presentation and excellent timbre (thus far). I think they would give Ks Bell-LBBs a run for their money as well so they are indeed approaching God-Tier level in many regards. I am still testing (as I just received them early this morning) but thus far I am impressed with what I am hearing. Both *@RikudouGoku* and *@FranQL *have indeed created some very tasteful and excellently tuned DIY models as of late... worthy of serious consideration by any earbud enthusiast who understands this transducer medium. Great to see earbuds expanding into new frontiers like this especially in the right direction!


----------



## Vedemin

WoodyLuvr said:


> I prefer these over FiiO EM5 any day... far less bright, not fatiguing (thus far), warmer and smoother with a nice bass presentation and excellent timbre (thus far). I think they would give Ks Bell-LBBs a run for their money as well so they are indeed approaching God-Tier level in many regards. I am still testing (as I just received them early this morning) but thus far I am impressed with what I am hearing. Both *@RikudouGoku* and *@FranQL *have indeed created some very tasteful and excellently tuned DIY models as of late... worthy of serious consideration by any earbud enthusiast who understands this transducer medium. Great to see earbuds expanding into new frontiers like this especially in the right direction!


I understand @RikudouGoku can't make an unbiased opinion as it's his own product but how would you say do these compare to Chaconne in things other than bass if you've heard it?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 5, 2022)

Vedemin said:


> I understand @RikudouGoku can't make an unbiased opinion as it's his own product but how would you say do these compare to Chaconne in things other than bass if you've heard it?


*RikuBuds Berserker 1 vs. Moondrop Chaconne*

Completely different tunings (aka different sound signatures). The Moondrop Chaconne is slightly more bright leaning due to it's airier primary sound signature while the Berserker 1 is slightly warmer and smoother with better bass impact, depth, and detail. So besides being weaker in the bass the Moondrop Chaconne has trouble with male vocals but in turn it shines well with female vocals and is dynamite good in the upper midrange and treble.

Although I highly regard the Chaconne I must acknowledge that it is a 'one or two trick pony' only and not an 'all-rounder' by any means like the Berserker 1. The Chaconne is wonderful for specific music genres and/or preference'd signature tastes but will fail miserably for all-use purposes. It is most definitely a nice accompanying earbud to have in your collection for specific roles.

More important and above all else is that the Chaconne does have critical fit issues for some people due to the awkward imbalance and awkwardness of it's shell shape design combined with the slipperiness of the shell material. People's ears vary vastly, so for some the Chaconne will never fit well no matter what they do even with the liberal use of cement or glue! Also, the price of the Chaconne is quite high in comparison to the Berserker 1 and is hard to justify the larger outlay of cash for some.


----------



## cod6793 (Apr 5, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> A few to consider with _mmcx_ and a _semi-neutral bright_ _sound signature_ that would play well with those genres:
> 
> Under USD $200 would be the:
> *NiceHCK Audio EBX21*; *•*•*•*•*•*•*• PT2021 147Ω*; *Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis*; and *Yincrow 野牛 'Bison' RW-2000*.
> ...


Thanks for the recommendations. Any consideration for PD21? 👀 it's 170USD on AliExpress. Why not ?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

cod6793 said:


> Thanks for the recommendations. Any consideration for PD21? 👀 it's 170USD on AliExpress. Why not ?


Completely slipped my mind... yes, the *DQSM Audio PD21* would be another excellent option.


----------



## jeejack (Apr 5, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> I prefer these over FiiO EM5 any day... far less bright, not fatiguing (thus far), warmer and smoother with a nice bass presentation and excellent timbre (thus far). I think they would give Ks Bell-LBBs a run for their money as well so they are indeed approaching God-Tier level in many regards. I am still testing (as I just received them early this morning) but thus far I am impressed with what I am hearing. Both *@RikudouGoku* and *@FranQL *have indeed created some very tasteful and excellently tuned DIY models as of late... worthy of serious consideration by any earbud enthusiast who understands this transducer medium. Great to see earbuds expanding into new frontiers like this especially in the right direction!


And you didn't hear anything from me, @furyossa , @Rary , @captione , @Ronion  and more recently @Setmagic. Same level as our hermano @FranQL . 🙃🍻


----------



## fabiodrums

My old VE Monks are dead yesterday. Do you recommend something similar for my iPod Nano 7th generation?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

fabiodrums said:


> My old VE Monks are dead yesterday. Do you recommend something similar for my iPod Nano 7th generation?


*THE CHECKLIST*


----------



## Setmagic (Apr 5, 2022)

jeejack said:


> And you didn't hear anything from me @furyossa , @Rary , @captione and more recently @Setmagic. Same level as our hermano @FranQL . 🙃🍻


Thank You for such kind words, but im newbie in buds world so far, can't compare with masters who spend years on it.
And made a quantum leap for diy buds world that is so wide open to newcomes.

Im very happy of custom MX500 who cost me 5$


----------



## jeejack

Setmagic said:


> Thank You for such kind words, but im newbie in buds world so far, can't compare with masters who spend years on it.
> And made a quantum leap for diy buds world that is so wide open to newcomes.
> 
> Im very happy of custom MX500 who cost me 5$


Beautiful ! 
My turn 🙃


----------



## emusic13

Setmagic said:


> Thank You for such kind words, but im newbie in buds world so far, can't compare with masters who spend years on it.
> And made a quantum leap for diy buds world that is so wide open to newcomes.
> 
> Im very happy of custom MX500 who cost me 5$


Looks great and nice price


----------



## FranQL (Apr 5, 2022)

and since not everything can be pretty, I'm going to show you one of my experiments... dual driver in a Coca-Cola cap... ugly as they are, but they sound great, I always have to experiment.... 
if someone sees you wearing them they can think anything, they are half cupcake, half nipples!


----------



## Setmagic (Apr 5, 2022)

@jeejack & @FranQL the look like art instalations.

Cables & shells nighty fun:


And cables for next projects:


----------



## tgx78

Here is one of mine


----------



## KutuzovGambit

tgx78 said:


> Here is one of mine


Taking our money when?


----------



## Sam L

FranQL said:


> and since not everything can be pretty, I'm going to show you one of my experiments... dual driver in a Coca-Cola cap... ugly as they are, but they sound great, I always have to experiment....
> if someone sees you wearing them they can think anything, they are half cupcake, half nipples!


Do they stay on the ears? Looks like they would fall off easily?


----------



## waynes world

tgx78 said:


> Here is one of mine



Nice photo!


----------



## captione

jeejack said:


> And you didn't hear anything from me, @furyossa , @Rary , @captione , @Ronion  and more recently @Setmagic. Same level as our hermano @FranQL . 🙃🍻


Haha! The reason why I rarely post here is because I learned how to make my own pairs. Almost two years in with no regrets 

I almost forgot that I had an earbud roundup blogpost. I'll be updating it with new earbud models, and a bunch of stuff I observed on FAAEAL models, specifically the Iris Ancestors.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 6, 2022)

*All hail Earbuds!
All hail Flatheads!
All hail DIY/MOD Earbuds!*


----------



## RockSloth (Apr 6, 2022)

Anyone heard of these - Defunc talk (eBay) - ?

Swedish apparently.


----------



## phower

RockSloth said:


> Anyone heard of these - Defunc talk (eBay) - ?
> 
> Swedish apparently.


What is so special about these over the 1000s on AliExpress?


----------



## RockSloth

phower said:


> What is so special about these over the 1000s on AliExpress?


Dunno, that's why I was asking! Just saw them and was curious after the supermarket Mixx earbuds got decent reviews here. 

Apologies if it's an AliExpress finds thread.


----------



## BCool

Apparently they have buds that are excellent for 'talking'. I'd be curious what makes them so good as I usually use mine for listening.


----------



## jant71

phower said:


> What is so special about these over the 1000s on AliExpress?



Duh, Swedish quality of course! That's why I shop on SwediExpress instead of Ali.


----------



## jogawag (Apr 6, 2022)

BCool said:


> Apparently they have buds that are excellent for 'talking'. I'd be curious what makes them so good as I usually use mine for listening.


After all, AliExpress shops or manufacturers take it for granted that their customers will QC their products.


----------



## fabiodrums (Apr 6, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> *THE CHECKLIST*


I use an iPod Nano 7th generation for some hours. Two or three during the day (high volume), and one hour on the night (low volume) to try to fall asleep. I use it exclusively at home. I listen only metal music, genre death and technical death and prefer warm sound.  my budget is 30-40€. During my three iPod I only used Apple earbuds, one pair of House Of Marley and one pair of VE Monk Plus. No mic.


----------



## jogawag

fabiodrums said:


> I use an iPod Nano 7th generation for some hours. Two or three during the day (high volume), and one hour on the night (low volume) to try to fall asleep. I use it exclusively at home. I listen only metal music, genre death and technical death and prefer warm sound.  my budget is 30-40€. During my three iPod I only used Apple earbuds, one pair of House Of Marley and one pair of VE Monk Plus. No mic.


1MORE Piston Pod EO320 (even if with mic)


----------



## fabiodrums

jogawag said:


> 1MORE Piston Pod EO320 (even if with mic)


Are japanese?


----------



## jogawag

fabiodrums said:


> Are japanese?


Yes,


----------



## rkw

fabiodrums said:


> Are japanese?


1MORE is Chinese: https://usa.1more.com/blogs/news/108709511-1more-china-s-answer-to-beats


----------



## 1clearhead

RikudouGoku said:


> 50 euro not including shipping.


Congratulations on your first attempt! 

I'm sure their will be many more earbuds coming our way from you that will please many audio earbud enthusiast like head-fier's and myself.
Cheers! 

-Clear


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 7, 2022)

fabiodrums said:


> I use an iPod Nano 7th generation for some hours. Two or three during the day (high volume), and one hour on the night (low volume) to try to fall asleep. I use it exclusively at home. I listen only metal music, genre death and technical death and prefer warm sound.  my budget is 30-40€. During my three iPod I only used Apple earbuds, one pair of House Of Marley and one pair of VE Monk Plus. No mic.


Since you mentioned "_for sleeping_" the following VE earbud came to mind... the *VE Zen LL* which like most of the VE line-up is tuned warm and is an extremely comfortable earbud to wear especially when sleeping. A tad higher in price than what you wanted to spend @ ~USD $69.80 (~€64) but they may just fit the bill. Stay away from the VE Monk Lite as it is tuned differently... it is one of the brightest models sold by VE. *Do note that due to recent Chinese government lockdowns VE is not shipping at the moment *but you may find it via a reseller online somewhere.

2018 - VE Monk Lite (40Ω/120Ω)​*2018 - VE Zen LL* (150Ω; aka "Zen Freebie"; "Sleeping Bud")​2019 - VE Zen LL ("Dice" Limited Edition 150Ω)​2019 - VE Zen LL T-C (150Ω; Type-C Plug)​2019 - VE Zen LL SLQ (150Ω; Upgraded Cable)​


----------



## Penon (Apr 8, 2022)

Good News ！📣 🥳 
Get this *PAC Earbud* for *FREE *when you order any selected products now.

*Specification*
Audiophiles earbud
Driver: 15.4mm PET Composite titanium diaphragm
Impedance: 40 ohm
Sensitivity :106dB
Frequency response: 20-20Khz
MMCX connector

https://penonaudio.com/pac-earbud.html


----------



## waynes world

fabiodrums said:


> and one hour on the night (low volume) to try to fall asleep. I use it exclusively at home. I listen only metal music, genre death and technical death and prefer warm sound



I would not have thought of trying technical death music for sleeping lol!


----------



## fabiodrums

waynes world said:


> I would not have thought of trying technical death music for sleeping lol!


I relax with Defeated Sanity...


----------



## fabiodrums

WoodyLuvr said:


> Since you mentioned "_for sleeping_" the following VE earbud came to mind... the *VE Zen LL* which like most of the VE line-up is tuned warm and is an extremely comfortable earbud to wear especially when sleeping. A tad higher in price than what you wanted to spend @ ~USD $69.80 (~€64) but they may just fit the bill. Stay away from the VE Monk Lite as it is tuned differently... it is one of the brightest models sold by VE. *Do note that due to recent Chinese government lockdowns VE is not shipping at the moment *but you may find it via a reseller online somewhere.
> 
> 2018 - VE Monk Lite (40Ω/120Ω)​*2018 - VE Zen LL* (150Ω; aka "Zen Freebie"; "Sleeping Bud")​2019 - VE Zen LL ("Dice" Limited Edition 150Ω)​2019 - VE Zen LL T-C (150Ω; Type-C Plug)​2019 - VE Zen LL SLQ (150Ω; Upgraded Cable)​


80€ on aliexpress


----------



## Charlyro222

WoodyLuvr said:


> Since you mentioned "_for sleeping_" the following VE earbud came to mind... the *VE Zen LL* which like most of the VE line-up is tuned warm and is an extremely comfortable earbud to wear especially when sleeping. A tad higher in price than what you wanted to spend @ ~USD $69.80 (~€64) but they may just fit the bill. Stay away from the VE Monk Lite as it is tuned differently... it is one of the brightest models sold by VE. *Do note that due to recent Chinese government lockdowns VE is not shipping at the moment *but you may find it via a reseller online somewhere.
> 
> 2018 - VE Monk Lite (40Ω/120Ω)​*2018 - VE Zen LL* (150Ω; aka "Zen Freebie"; "Sleeping Bud")​2019 - VE Zen LL ("Dice" Limited Edition 150Ω)​2019 - VE Zen LL T-C (150Ω; Type-C Plug)​2019 - VE Zen LL SLQ (150Ω; Upgraded Cable)​


Next monday will return work, shippments will continue.


----------



## Chessnaudio

waynes world said:


> I would not have thought of trying technical death music for sleeping lol!


In some ways the more complicated and crazy the music the better the background noise. I do it too. But more techno/rythmic pop. Occasionally heavy metal. For me the slower and more vocally focused the music, the more brain focuses on. The lyrics and tune. In short, I use more chaotic music to do the opposite of clinical listening Lol.


----------



## regancipher

I know they're old, I know they're not reference class but my god I absolutely love the CCZ Emerald. Melody and Coffee Bean are meh, they blow my old BLON BL-03 away too, and with the nicehck cable they sound even better. Hell they even sound good with KZ-A09 adapters. They fit beautifully, they look great.... they don't do anything especially outstanding but just do everything so well.

I've never really bothered reviewing IEM's but I think I'll go back and revisit some of the ones I've still got kicking around....kb ear ks1, lark, CCA CSN, hzsound heart mirror... I forgot how much IEM's blow Bluetooth TWS away, especially at the crazy prices.

Anyone recommend any other bargains that have just been released?

Oh yeah, review on the emerald here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ccz-emerald.25486/reviews#review-28273


----------



## RikudouGoku

regancipher said:


> I know they're old, I know they're not reference class but my god I absolutely love the CCZ Emerald. Melody and Coffee Bean are meh, they blow my old BLON BL-03 away too, and with the nicehck cable they sound even better. Hell they even sound good with KZ-A09 adapters. They fit beautifully, they look great.... they don't do anything especially outstanding but just do everything so well.
> 
> I've never really bothered reviewing IEM's but I think I'll go back and revisit some of the ones I've still got kicking around....kb ear ks1, lark, CCA CSN, hzsound heart mirror... I forgot how much IEM's blow Bluetooth TWS away, especially at the crazy prices.
> 
> ...


Wrong thread.

(CCA CRA is the answer though.)


----------



## Sam L

Penon said:


> Good News ！Get this *PAC Earbud* for *FREE *when you order any selected products now.
> 
> *Specification*
> Audiophiles earbud
> ...


Aww... Only for new registrations.


----------



## mt877 (Apr 8, 2022)

@samandhi, I think you'll like this killer combo. 

FiiO UTWS5 & Yincrow RW-3000


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 8, 2022)

fabiodrums said:


> 80€ on aliexpress


Yeah, that is a tad too high in my opinion. You'll need to scout around a little harder to find a better deal... here is a pair with the more expensive Type-C termination for around USD $68 ( https://www.soundproofbrosaudio.com...y_id=&sub_category_id=&sub_category_lv2_id=86 ). Though local to me I think it proves that you can find better pricing with some patience. Or simply wait for VE to reopen their operations again but that could be a ways away.


Charlyro222 said:


> Next monday will return work, shippments will continue.


Fingers crossed and though I remain hopeful the situation is not at all promising with the continued delay in lifting of lockdowns and restrictions across the region and in other cities across China (now at 23 plus cities) e.g. Shanghai


----------



## Penon

Sam L said:


> Aww... Only for new registrations.


Free for new and old registrations


----------



## BCool

What are some good 'beginner' buds to look into? (ie. less than $100, don't require an amp)
I've tried the Iris 2.0s and the RY4S MMCX, but was curious what the next step is. The *** PT2021 looks interesting but there's 4 different versions and it's not clear what the differences are in sound. Similar are the Smabat M2s Pro, but there's conflicting information on the fit and the different driver options.

I'm not looking for a specific recommendation per se, just looking for some pointers and clarity. I have 7Hz Timeless for 'serious' listening and I consider it to be endgame until I have a lot more disposable income as it sounds great for the music I listen to (some rock/pop/indie/hip-hop and a lot of electronic) but I still have a bit of bug having discovered buds haha.


----------



## rprodrigues

BCool said:


> What are some good 'beginner' buds to look into? (ie. less than $100, don't require an amp)
> I've tried the Iris 2.0s and the RY4S MMCX, but was curious what the next step is. The *** PT2021 looks interesting but there's 4 different versions and it's not clear what the differences are in sound. Similar are the Smabat M2s Pro, but there's conflicting information on the fit and the different driver options.
> 
> I'm not looking for a specific recommendation per se, just looking for some pointers and clarity. I have 7Hz Timeless for 'serious' listening and I consider it to be endgame until I have a lot more disposable income as it sounds great for the music I listen to (some rock/pop/indie/hip-hop and a lot of electronic) but I still have a bit of bug having discovered buds haha.



PT2021 @ 365 Ohm is good, but bright. 
Soundwise, I'm not sure they fit everyone.


----------



## DivineCurrent

I've been experimenting with some EQ on the VE Monk (Plus) and wow... I'm actually extremely impressed by how much you can improve the sound. I made an EQ profile that raises the sub bass, gets rid of the upper bass bloat, reduces lower treble/upper mids forwardness around 4kHz, and increases the upper treble above 10kHz. Granted, it's a lot of EQ and the sub bass still isn't good, but the mids and treble especially are so much improved that it's far more natural sounding. I've also got a Yincrow X6 and NiceHCK DIY MX500 on the way, so we'll see how those compare too.


----------



## daoxuat

Just got pair of LBBs + shipping fee for 31 usd. Unbeatable for this price.


----------



## DBaldock9

DivineCurrent said:


> I've been experimenting with some EQ on the VE Monk (Plus) and wow... I'm actually extremely impressed by how much you can improve the sound. I made an EQ profile that raises the sub bass, gets rid of the upper bass bloat, reduces lower treble/upper mids forwardness around 4kHz, and increases the upper treble above 10kHz. Granted, it's a lot of EQ and the sub bass still isn't good, but the mids and treble especially are so much improved that it's far more natural sounding. I've also got a Yincrow X6 and NiceHCK DIY MX500 on the way, so we'll see how those compare too.



Which device / app are you using for the EQ?


----------



## DivineCurrent

DBaldock9 said:


> Which device / app are you using for the EQ?


Equalizer APO for desktop, and the Qudelix 5k built in parametric EQ for portable.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> @samandhi, I think you'll like this killer combo.
> 
> FiiO UTWS5 & Yincrow RW-3000


That has been the goal (as well as with other buds/IEMs). I have yet to see them available anywhere here in the US. I am still hoping they will come back in stock at some point, though I have all but given up hope at this point. 

That seems like an absolutely delicious solution for wireless, and open back all in one. Of course there is no need for the ambient mode they finally added to the UTWS5 is there? 

Being over-ear, how do you find them as to staying in your ear (and in the right spot) and sound quality? Can you wear these all day, or is it one of those "they're great, but don't move" scenarios?


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> That has been the goal (as well as with other buds/IEMs). I have yet to see them available anywhere here in the US. I am still hoping they will come back in stock at some point, though I have all but given up hope at this point.
> 
> That seems like an absolutely delicious solution for wireless, and open back all in one. Of course there is no need for the ambient mode they finally added to the UTWS5 is there?
> 
> Being over-ear, how do you find them as to staying in your ear (and in the right spot) and sound quality? Can you wear these all day, or is it one of those "they're great, but don't move" scenarios?


According to FiiO, should be available in the US this month. These seem to be in demand so could be off the shelves quickly, gotta be quick to get a set. My AE order came in faster than expected.

Yep, there is "built in" ambient sound mode with buds, but the electronic assisted ambient sound mode might still be useful, haven't tried it yet though.

So far only tried them with the RW-3000's. No problem with fit or comfort and the buds stay in place. The sound quality is top notch, plus you can set volume, balance, EQ in the FiiO control app to fine tune the sound if needed. I've only tried this setup for a couple hours at a time doing stuff around the house (not sitting still) and no problems.


----------



## waynes world

mt877 said:


> According to FiiO, should be available in the US this month. These seem to be in demand so could be off the shelves quickly, gotta be quick to get a set. My AE order came in faster than expected.
> 
> Yep, there is "built in" ambient sound mode with buds, but the electronic assisted ambient sound mode might still be useful, haven't tried it yet though.
> 
> So far only tried them with the RW-3000's. No problem with fit or comfort and the buds stay in place. The sound quality is top notch, plus you can set volume, balance, EQ in the FiiO control app to fine tune the sound if needed. I've only tried this setup for a couple hours at a time doing stuff around the house (not sitting still) and no problems.



The UTWS5 will probably be great (I have the fiio btr3k and love it). Too bad it doesn't support LDAC though.


----------



## mt877

waynes world said:


> The UTWS5 will probably be great (I have the fiio btr3k and love it). Too bad it doesn't support LDAC though.


At least LHDC was included in the latest firmware update v1.4. FiiO may still be trying to work on LDAC support(?). I think if they could get LDAC working they would include it.


----------



## Alex.Grimm

Hello friends, now I don’t have the opportunity and mood to buy earbuds from Aliexpress and Rholupat. My country has been attacked. the consequences are getting worse every day, air logistics do not work. When peace comes, I will write about my new purchases.

PS. I wanted to thank the UM x MusicTeck--MEST MKII/MEXT Love & Healing Edition for their support and the symbolic design of their product


Spoiler


----------



## baskingshark

Alex.Grimm said:


> Hello friends, now I don’t have the opportunity and mood to buy earbuds from Aliexpress and Rholupat. My country has been attacked. the consequences are getting worse every day, air logistics do not work. When peace comes, I will write about my new purchases.
> 
> PS. I wanted to thank the UM x MusicTeck--MEST MKII/MEXT Love & Healing Edition for their support and the symbolic design of their product
> 
> ...



Hope you and family are safe during these turbulent times. Wishing peace for all.


----------



## BCool

Has anyone ordered the NiceHCK $99 mystery bag?


----------



## waynes world

mt877 said:


> At least LHDC was included in the latest firmware update v1.4. FiiO may still be trying to work on LDAC support(?). I think if they could get LDAC working they would include it.



Thanks. I wasn't familiar with LHDC. So at the risk of one last OT post, here's a link I found that explains it (and yes, LHDC seems just fine!.. if one's phone supports it).


----------



## samandhi

waynes world said:


> Thanks. I wasn't familiar with LHDC. So at the risk of one last OT post, here's a link I found that explains it (and yes, LHDC seems just fine!.. if one's phone supports it).


Very few smart phones support it as of yet. For the last 4 years Huawei and Savatech have been the only phones that have bothered to certify using it. As of now the only other way to use LHDC is to use a music player app that has the driver baked in to it. Here is the Wiki for it, which includes the different apps that have it built in (for you to try if you like). I have tried all the apps that are listed there (AFAIK there aren't any more yet). For my part the iBasso driver implementation works best for me (at least for my Deva headphones), but the music player app is NOT good. For the other ones, the driver either is wonky at best, or doesn't work at all. It seems as though they are not pushing very hard to further this codec, even though there are a lot of big names that sit on the board of this union. 

Heck, if you look at the specs for the iBasso Deva, it does support it (as well as the Ananda BT), but it is not even advertised on their own specs. It is basically an open source LDAC, but I don't think that it is done cooking yet, though if you get it working, it DOES sound very good. 

In the mean-time, I am anxious to get a pair of those UTWS5 to try. I have been wanting to use them mainly for earbuds for some time now, because other than the Linkbuds, there aren't really any (good) open options in the TWS world. I don't mind cables at all, but I want to have the choice in what I use at any given time. 

If they didn't cost so much, I have thought about a DIY project that I would like to do (that relates in end goal to the UTWS5). I wanted to modify the Chaconne, cutting down the stem, putting in an MMCX connector (which would make them much more balanced for weight), and then hooking them up to one of the BT adaptors (of course, at that point I could still use a regular cable with them too). I just can't bring myself to possibly ruining my current end game buds...  So the RW2000 and RW3000 are the best candidate for the trial with BT adaptors that @mt877 seems to have beaten me to.


----------



## mt877 (Apr 9, 2022)

waynes world said:


> Thanks. I wasn't familiar with LHDC. So at the risk of one last OT post, here's a link I found that explains it (and yes, LHDC seems just fine!.. if one's phone supports it).
> 
> 
> samandhi said:
> ...


Yeah guys, I don't want to wander off topic either, but this discussion is relevant for those who want to go wireless and have buds with mmcx connectors.

First if you have an iOS device, as far as I know LHDC has not been implemented in either hardware or software (music player apps) so you're out of luck. If you have an Android (DAP, phone, tablet) device without LHDC baked in (OS level), then you can use a music player app which has LHDC programmed in to enjoy "near lossless" bluetooth streaming. I've read that some people that have Android phones with LHDC baked in have faced problems connecting to bluetooth receiver devices (headphones, adapters, etc.) which are LHDC compatible.

The one app I found that has a decent UI and LHDC implementation is the FiiO music player. You have to go into the player settings and enable the HWA setting. HWA = LHDC.

It's a 2 step process. 1st you connect via bluetooth to your device. Then you launch FiiO music player and in settings enable the HWA setting. A confirmation pop-up window appears saying LHDC will be used for bluetooth streaming, confirm it. Play your audio via the FiiO music app and enjoy some high res bluetooth streaming.

Edit: Shanling DAPs support LHDC, but it is not OS level. Just like the FiiO music player, it's built into the Shanling music player app. I have a Shanling M3X, but I always play music through the FiiO player app because I don't like the Shanling music player UI and there's some missing features.


----------



## shenshen

Alex.Grimm said:


> Hello friends, now I don’t have the opportunity and mood to buy earbuds from Aliexpress and Rholupat. My country has been attacked. the consequences are getting worse every day, air logistics do not work. When peace comes, I will write about my new purchases.
> 
> PS. I wanted to thank the UM x MusicTeck--MEST MKII/MEXT Love & Healing Edition for their support and the symbolic design of their product
> 
> ...


My heart breaks for you and your people, keeping you all in my thoughts.


----------



## 4ceratops

Alex.Grimm said:


> Hello friends, now I don’t have the opportunity and mood to buy earbuds from Aliexpress and Rholupat. My country has been attacked. the consequences are getting worse every day, air logistics do not work. When peace comes, I will write about my new purchases.
> 
> PS. I wanted to thank the UM x MusicTeck--MEST MKII/MEXT Love & Healing Edition for their support and the symbolic design of their product
> 
> ...


My thoughts are always with your country and its people. My only wish is for the war to end as soon as possible.
Слава Україні!


----------



## tgx78

Just for fun 😝


----------



## furyossa (Apr 10, 2022)

tgx78 said:


> Just for fun 😝



Hmm ... what about when you place them in the ears. Are your eyes glowing?


----------



## captione

BCool said:


> What are some good 'beginner' buds to look into? (ie. less than $100, don't require an amp)
> I've tried the Iris 2.0s and the RY4S MMCX, but was curious what the next step is. The *** PT2021 looks interesting but there's 4 different versions and it's not clear what the differences are in sound. Similar are the Smabat M2s Pro, but there's conflicting information on the fit and the different driver options.
> 
> I'm not looking for a specific recommendation per se, just looking for some pointers and clarity. I have 7Hz Timeless for 'serious' listening and I consider it to be endgame until I have a lot more disposable income as it sounds great for the music I listen to (some rock/pop/indie/hip-hop and a lot of electronic) but I still have a bit of bug having discovered buds haha.


I highly suggest K'searphones K64.


----------



## rprodrigues

captione said:


> I highly suggest K'searphones K64.


2x


----------



## rprodrigues (Apr 10, 2022)

Is there a "Q701 in earbuds form"?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 10, 2022)

rprodrigues said:


> Is there any "Q701 in earbuds form"?


Maybe *NiceHCK EBX21 (32Ω) *or ******* PT2021 (147/275/365Ω)*. These are the closest earbuds that I can think of that have a similar sounding signature and tuning to the AKG Q701. Though it is most important to note that the Q701 has mad wide sound(head)stage unequalled by any earphone I have ever heard, earbud or IEM. Perhaps the *Toneking (MusicMaker MrZ - Tiankui) Dendroaspis Viridis (32Ω)* would be another viable option due to having a very wide soundstage for an earbud (one of the widest) but slightly tamer treble performance than the EBX21 or PT2021. The *Rose Technics Maria II*, although with stellar soundstage (being the queen of soundstage (widest) of all earbuds) the midrange and treble is quite different than the Q701... very mid-centric and more aggressive than bright.


----------



## rprodrigues (Apr 10, 2022)

@WoodyLuvr

A quick A/B testing between q701 and pt2021@365 confirmed what you pointed out. I don't have the other sets you mentioned.

Do you remember if either ebx21 or Virids have better midrange than pt2021? Compared to q701, pt2021 has a blurred midrange. The former also has better bass extension, though lacking subbass.

I know you prefer pt2021 over ebx21.

Thank you


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 11, 2022)

rprodrigues said:


> @WoodyLuvr
> 
> A quick A/B testing between q701 and pt2021@365 confirmed what you pointed out. I don't have the other sets you mentioned.
> 
> ...


I completely forgot that you had the ****** PT2021 @ 365Ω... great you have that to make a comparison.

Yes, I do think that the *NiceHCK EBX21 *has the better midrange than all the models that I had mentioned in my last post (outside of the Rose Technics Maria II so the ****** PT2021 and Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis) and ultimately are probably your best candidate for being the most similar to the Q701 in tuning and signature. In this *post* I have gone into greater detail about the EBX21's tuning but one of the main reasons why I included them on my old God-Tier Earbuds List was because of their excellent timbre, very well presented midrange, and their strong analytical nature which is perfect for critical reference-like listening needs... that is if you can handle their bright cold critical nature which may be quite fatiguing to/for some. Just like the PT2021 the EBX21 has less emphasized bass but not grossly so as their timbre is top notch as I said before. Although the *Dendroaspis Viridis* has excellent soundstage (detailed and expansive in both width and depth) it is only second-tier level in regards to timbre and midrange reproduction... the EBX21 is far more detailed in my opinon.

Yes, overall I do prefer the PT2021 as it was a far more listenable earbud to me (my sensitive ears) but the EBX21 was a far better performer technically speaking and if the upper mids and treble were not so naughty sounding to me I would probably still have a pair sitting in my stable (the same can be said of the Maria I & II).

*Final Note:* the one major area that I believe that both the EBX21 and PT2021 are truly lacking in regards to the Q701 is "airiness".  Now being of open-air design many (most) earbuds do exhibit this quality and do it quite well but unfortunately just not on the same level nor scale as a full-sized open-back headphone like the Q701. The only earbuds I know of that exhibits such a level of airiness reaching, that of the Q701 or HD800, would be the Moondrop Chaconne (but that is warmly tuned and is most definitely a specialty bud so a one or two trick pony only and not an all-rounder); Pislo P7/PX Hifi (though the primary sound signature is extremely "aggressive" - Asian "female poison" tuning); VE Sun "Dice Edition" (though with a very strong airy secondary signature this is a very warmly tuned earbud); and perhaps the FiiO EM5 (exhibits some "bright" secondary sound characteristics that reach out towards "airy").


----------



## mt877

Alex.Grimm said:


> Hello friends, now I don’t have the opportunity and mood to buy earbuds from Aliexpress and Rholupat. My country has been attacked. the consequences are getting worse every day, air logistics do not work. When peace comes, I will write about my new purchases.
> 
> PS. I wanted to thank the UM x MusicTeck--MEST MKII/MEXT Love & Healing Edition for their support and the symbolic design of their product
> 
> ...


Yes, wishing peace, but peace on Ukrainian terms, not forced at the end of Russian bayonets. It will be a very sad day if Ukraine falls under the forced rule of Russian tyranny again after 30 years of independence. Long live a free and independent Ukraine!


----------



## axhng

MX500 shells, noodly thin cable like the Traceless/Vido. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## jogawag

axhng said:


> MX500 shells, noodly thin cable like the Traceless/Vido. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


I don't understand what you mean by paying only the low price for it.
If you're not happy with the cable, you'll be happy if you replace it with another cable you like with solder or attach an MMCX connector.


----------



## baskingshark

axhng said:


> MX500 shells, noodly thin cable like the Traceless/Vido. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



How's the sound though?


----------



## axhng (Apr 11, 2022)

jogawag said:


> I don't understand what you mean by paying only the low price for it.
> If you're not happy with the cable, you'll be happy if you replace it with another cable you like with solder or attach an MMCX connector.


 not really expecting anything fancy at this price for sure. haha. if anything this cable is within expectations, but would be nice if the cable was better for sure. The Iris Ancestor is cheaper and has a thicker, longer, and nicer feeling cable.



baskingshark said:


> How's the sound though?


i think ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ sums up my thoughts on it. first impression is that it's nice for the price, but then so many cheap earbuds are. a lot of them are so similar in terms of technicalities too so it's mostly down to personal preference for tuning. did a quick A/B with the blue vido, traceless, iris ancestor, k's earphone k64s and it's probably very very very slightly above average (don't really have to motivation to spend that much effort on something this cheap TBH  ). Tonality is probably somewhere in between the traceless and k64s. not as thin/lean sounding as the traceless, with more body in the mids, but not as warm as the k64s/vido/ancestor. It's closer to my preference than those... I think. That said, nothing special (as expected due to the price), but nothing really wrong with them either. Still won't be using them much since I have other earbuds I like more. 

by the way... photo of the driver


----------



## baskingshark

axhng said:


> not really expecting anything fancy at this price for sure. haha. if anything this cable is within expectations, but would be nice if the cable was better for sure. The Iris Ancestor is cheaper and has a thicker, longer, and nicer feeling cable.
> 
> 
> i think ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ sums up my thoughts on it. first impression is that it's nice for the price, but then so many cheap earbuds are. a lot of them are so similar in terms of technicalities too so it's mostly down to personal preference for tuning. did a quick A/B with the blue vido, traceless, iris ancestor, k's earphone k64s and it's probably very very very slightly above average (don't really have to motivation to spend that much effort on something this cheap TBH  ). Tonality is probably somewhere in between the traceless and k64s. not as thin/lean sounding as the traceless, with more body in the mids, but not as warm as the k64s/vido/ancestor. It's closer to my preference than those... I think. That said, nothing special (as expected due to the price), but nothing really wrong with them either. Still won't be using them much since I have other earbuds I like more.
> ...



Thanks for taking one for the team!

Ya I guess after a while all these budget sub $10 earbuds are kinda sidegradish. And perhaps buying more of these may add up to a midFI or TOTL earbud one day even!


----------



## cod6793

Hi! About the Dqsm PD21, I've read that it's recommended to get the version with a 4-strands cable that sounds better. is it different from the 2-strands version just because of the cable or are there internal changes in the earbud?


----------



## rprodrigues (May 12, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> I completely forgot that you had the ****** PT2021 @ 365Ω... great you have that to make a comparison.
> 
> Yes, I do think that the *NiceHCK EBX21 *has the better midrange than all the models that I had mentioned in my last post (outside of the Rose Technics Maria II so the ****** PT2021 and Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis) and ultimately are probably your best candidate for being the most similar to the Q701 in tuning and signature. In this *post* I have gone into greater detail about the EBX21's tuning but one of the main reasons why I included them on my old God-Tier Earbuds List was because of their excellent timbre, very well presented midrange, and their strong analytical nature which is perfect for critical reference-like listening needs... that is if you can handle their bright cold critical nature which may be quite fatiguing to/for some. Just like the PT2021 the EBX21 has less emphasized bass but not grossly so as their timbre is top notch as I said before. Although the *Dendroaspis Viridis* has excellent soundstage (detailed and expansive in both width and depth) it is only second-tier level in regards to timbre and midrange reproduction... the EBX21 is far more detailed in my opinon.
> 
> ...




Thank you.

You gave me really good directions towards my possibly next earbuds. Good soundstage and crystal clear midrange is what I'm searching this time.

By the way, there is a pt2022 model from S-e-n-f-e-r.
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOFbaZG


----------



## WoodyLuvr

rprodrigues said:


> Thank you.
> 
> You gave me really good directions towards my possibly next earbuds. Good soundstage and crystal clear midrange is what I'm searching this time.
> 
> ...


You are most welcome. Awesome catch! Added to the timeline; thank you for the "head's up!" there. Cheers.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Been a while I didnt try a new earbuds, last one was Qigom White Lotus which i like alot. 
Well, from all NiceHCK earbuds I try, the EB2S are my second fav after flagship EBX. Smooth balanced tonality with great layering, nothing offensive, yet immersive and not boring. These LCP DD are always surprising. Their a sens of flexibility in transient that permit it to avoid going messy-muddy even with complex music...very unique in that regard!
My review is up:
https://nobsaudiophile.com/2022/04/11/nicehck-eb2s-review-surprisingly-refined-and-musical/


----------



## baskingshark

For SMABAT fans, Smabat is having a storewide sale on their main shop page. Most of their earbuds are on discount there.

https://www.smabat.com/collections/all

But I'm a bit more interested in buying the NC02 (which is an IEM).


----------



## mika91

Hi,
Any recommendations for 50$ earbuds with mx760/dp100 shell? (fit/comfort is superior than mx500 for my ears)
Did not find mmcx version with those shells.
Thanks


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 11, 2022)

mika91 said:


> Hi,
> Any recommendations for 50$ earbuds with mx760/dp100 shell? (fit/comfort is superior than mx500 for my ears)
> Did not find mmcx version with those shells.
> Thanks


*Beyerdynamic DP100* and *Sennheiser MX760* are often mistaken for one another but they are different shells and not the same.

Nonetheless, a worthy consideration would be the *2020 - Shozy SG (32Ω) *though it is with a fixed cable 😢.


----------



## furyossa (Apr 11, 2022)

mika91 said:


> Hi,
> Any recommendations for 50$ earbuds with mx760/dp100 shell? (fit/comfort is superior than mx500 for my ears)
> Did not find mmcx version with those shells.
> Thanks


That's because MX500 cover has bigger diameter than MX760 cover and you need to use glue, which is always a bad choice.
Only recommendations for DP100 buds are ShoonTH lineup https://penonaudio.com/ShoonTH
and ofc rec by mr Woody


----------



## mika91

Ok thanks.
So maybe do you have in mind mmcx buds with better comfort/fit than mx500?


----------



## Blueshound24

Does anyone have any links for some budget bluetooth earbuds? I like the idea of earbuds rather than IEM for situational awareness.


----------



## BCool

baskingshark said:


> For SMABAT fans, Smabat is having a storewide sale on their main shop page. Most of their earbuds are on discount there.
> 
> https://www.smabat.com/collections/all
> 
> But I'm a bit more interested in buying the NC02 (which is an IEM).


This 'sale' has been going for several weeks at least, I think it might be permanent.


----------



## RockSloth

Blueshound24 said:


> Does anyone have any links for some budget bluetooth earbuds? I like the idea of earbuds rather than IEM for situational awareness.


I haven't heard them but the soundpeats air3 get good reviews.


----------



## RockSloth

Form factor question as I'm not sure if I've had bad luck, it's just my ears or something else but has anyone had great sounding buds that have this cover directing the sound? Sorry not sure what to call it.







They always feel tinny, distant and muffled compared to the classic single grill.


----------



## Sam L

DivineCurrent said:


> I've been experimenting with some EQ on the VE Monk (Plus) and wow... I'm actually extremely impressed by how much you can improve the sound. I made an EQ profile that raises the sub bass, gets rid of the upper bass bloat, reduces lower treble/upper mids forwardness around 4kHz, and increases the upper treble above 10kHz. Granted, it's a lot of EQ and the sub bass still isn't good, but the mids and treble especially are so much improved that it's far more natural sounding. I've also got a Yincrow X6 and NiceHCK DIY MX500 on the way, so we'll see how those compare too.


yep! the 120ohm monk lite's take eq even better! It's magic when buds take eq well.


----------



## DivineCurrent

Sam L said:


> yep! the 120ohm monk lite's take eq even better! It's magic when buds take eq well.


I need to try the 120 ohm monk lite. I have the 40 ohm monk lite, it has a gigantic peak at 4-5 kHz. EQ can save it sort of, but the bass is also worse than the regular Monk Plus.


----------



## tgx78 (Apr 11, 2022)

Just finished 300ohm build with a pure silver cable 2.5 -> rhodium plated 4.4mm termination.


----------



## MelodyMood

DivineCurrent said:


> I've been experimenting with some EQ on the VE Monk (Plus) and wow... I'm actually extremely impressed by how much you can improve the sound. I made an EQ profile that raises the sub bass, gets rid of the upper bass bloat, reduces lower treble/upper mids forwardness around 4kHz, and increases the upper treble above 10kHz. Granted, it's a lot of EQ and the sub bass still isn't good, but the mids and treble especially are so much improved that it's far more natural sounding. I've also got a Yincrow X6 and NiceHCK DIY MX500 on the way, so we'll see how those compare too.


Does that improve the sound greatly? And especially with more on detailed side but still preserving warmness and adding some bass and sub-bass feel too. Can you pls share the settings so I can try as well?


----------



## regancipher

RockSloth said:


> I haven't heard them but the soundpeats air3 get good reviews.


The Air3 are decent. I reviewed them here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/so...ini-bluetooth-v5-2.25471/reviews#review-26956


----------



## jogawag

tgx78 said:


> Just finished 300ohm build with a pure silver cable 2.5 -> rhodium plated 4.4mm termination.


I assume you are using the transparent MX500 shell, does it blur the sound?


----------



## tgx78 (Apr 12, 2022)

jogawag said:


> I assume you are using the transparent MX500 shell, does it blur the sound?


Can’t tell you because I pre coat all my transparent shells with Golden UVLS and spray varnish inside.




Imaging is sharp and precise for me.


----------



## jogawag

tgx78 said:


> Can’t tell you because I pre coat all my transparent shells with Golden UVLS and spray varnish inside.
> 
> 
> Imaging is sharp and precise for me.


You are spraying varnish inside to exclude blurring. It's a very careful process.
I just stick cellophane tape on the inside of the shell.


----------



## tgx78 (Apr 12, 2022)

jogawag said:


> You are spraying varnish inside to exclude blurring. It's a very careful process.
> I just stick cellophane tape on the inside of the shell.





I paint so have tons of spray cans laying around already 😂




A late night listening session.. earbuds casually destroying the KR5 with anything acoustic.


----------



## FranQL

mika91 said:


> Ok thanks.
> So maybe do you have in mind mmcx buds with better comfort/fit than mx500?



I don't know of any pre-built models, but it shouldn't be difficult to do it yourself, maybe today I'll do a test just to see the result.


----------



## mt877

tgx78 said:


> I paint so have tons of spray cans laying around already 😂
> 
> 
> A late night listening session.. earbuds casually destroying the KR5 with anything acoustic.


Very nice, you're very artistic.


----------



## mt877

FranQL said:


> I don't know of any pre-built models, but it shouldn't be difficult to do it yourself, maybe today I'll do a test just to see the result.


When you're done, post up your creation, would be nice to see.


----------



## DivineCurrent

MelodyMood said:


> Does that improve the sound greatly? And especially with more on detailed side but still preserving warmness and adding some bass and sub-bass feel too. Can you pls share the settings so I can try as well?


To my ears the sound quality does improve quite a bit with the EQ. It's not going to make it super resolving, but still makes it more detailed and natural sounding. Here are my settings for Equalizer APO:

Filter: ON LSC Fc 70 Hz Gain 9 dB Q 0.9
Filter: ON PK Fc 80 Hz Gain 2.5 dB Q 1.25
Filter: ON PK Fc 150 Hz Gain -1.5 dB Q 1
Filter: ON PK Fc 210 Hz Gain -2 dB Q 1.2
Filter: ON PK Fc 250 Hz Gain -3 dB Q 0.6
Filter: ON PK Fc 1400 Hz Gain 2 dB Q 1
Filter: ON PK Fc 2000 Hz Gain -2 dB Q 2
Filter: ON PK Fc 3500 Hz Gain -1 dB Q 3
Filter: ON PK Fc 4000 Hz Gain -3 dB Q 4
Filter: ON PK Fc 4500 Hz Gain -5 dB Q 3
Filter: ON PK Fc 5000 Hz Gain -3 dB Q 4
Filter: ON PK Fc 8400 Hz Gain -1.5 dB Q 2
Filter: ON HSC Fc 11000 Hz Gain 6 dB Q 0.8

The 1400, 2000, and 3500 Hz filters are optional, the Monk already has a great even response from 1-3 kHz.


----------



## FranQL (Apr 12, 2022)

mt877 said:


> When you're done, post up your creation, would be nice to see.



painting them is not my specialty, but these unmarked shells I am unable to tell them apart (L and R). In addition, this shell is asymmetric and it is essential not to make a mistake.


----------



## RockSloth

mbwilson111 said:


> I found it on the MIXX Audio site.  It is called the MIXX Tribute and they have it priced at £12.   They have a few other colors like purple, blue and rose gold.


These are quite good


----------



## mt877

FranQL said:


> painting them is not my specialty, but these unmarked shells I am unable to tell them apart (L and R)


I think adding a small dot of epoxy to make a small bump to the inside left ear piece near the cable inlet (major manufacturers mold it in) aid in a tactile feel so you'll know which is the left side without even looking. This is helpful in low light situations and is definitely useful for the blind to put the correct earphone into the correct ear. That would be an additive method, filing or milling out a small slot would be a subtractive method, but both would have a tactile feel.


----------



## Ronion

Blur uses a small piece of clear heat shrink which works very well.  Ingenious really.  In the dead of the night you know which side is which.


----------



## mt877

Ronion said:


> Blur uses a small piece of clear heat shrink which works very well.  Ingenious really.  In the dead of the night you know which side is which.


Yep, another additive method and functional. I guess it depends on the shell and your sense of aesthetics. In the case of the earphones shown the decorative metallic strip would be obstructed, that's why the careful paint job was done(?).


----------



## FranQL

mt877 said:


> that's why the careful paint job was done(?).



No, it's painted badly, in fact everyone at home is still laughing because of how I've painted it and what I've used to paint it.

but... the sound... that's something else...


----------



## mt877

FranQL said:


> No, it's painted badly, in fact everyone at home is still laughing because of how I've painted it and what I've used to paint it.
> 
> but... the sound... that's something else...


Now that you mention it I can see clumps of glitter nail polish or what ever you used. But you were still being careful to not ruin the aesthetics of the shell design. Of course the sound is always important.


----------



## jeejack

I like to play with spray paint. Sometimes too much, I admit 🙃


----------



## emusic13

jeejack said:


> I like to play with spray paint. Sometimes too much, I admit 🙃


Red colored cables look quite striking. I havent seen them again recently until now. Is there a link?


----------



## FranQL (Apr 12, 2022)

emusic13 said:


> Red colored cables look quite striking. I havent seen them again recently until now. Is there a link?




https://a.aliexpress.com/_vPUdQi

https://a.aliexpress.com/_vczVyW

https://a.aliexpress.com/_vLBWQI

the last link I used for IEM


----------



## ValSuki

Hi all! I am back with a small update on small things:
1) Planar buds will happen, just need to finalise getting a resin printer once I have enough cash on me...those things arent cheap to setup (in total $1k for a "good" setup).; I did a good amount of research on planar dynamics and their functionality, so I could and should be able to get one setup.
2) I have a personal bud I am working on! They are called the Valar v2's, with the v1's now being done as they arent anything special. These ones I want to share with you all are something I am very proud of, and is still an on going project I have been working on for the past few months.

These are little product shots that are not official yet, but are something that will be appearing on my FB page very soon!


----------



## Ronion

mt877 said:


> Yep, another additive method and functional. I guess it depends on the shell and your sense of aesthetics. In the case of the earphones shown the decorative metallic strip would be obstructed, that's why the careful paint job was done(?).


He puts it on the cable and it’s clear.  You have to really look for it to see it, but it’s easy to feel in total darkness.


----------



## SlimCharles

I can't find the qianyun qian69. Any other alternative? Tried yincrow x6 and it sounds just as good, but it's a bit difficult to fit in.


----------



## jogawag

SlimCharles said:


> I can't find the qianyun qian69. Any other alternative? Tried yincrow x6 and it sounds just as good, but it's a bit difficult to fit in.


1MORE Piston EO320


----------



## rprodrigues (Apr 13, 2022)

SlimCharles said:


> I can't find the qianyun qian69. Any other alternative? Tried yincrow x6 and it sounds just as good, but it's a bit difficult to fit in.



Can you access Spanish shopee?
If so, ask this seller https://shopee.es/fenwei9z.es about q69. He sells them in Brazilian shopee.

Update: the seller fengru.es also sells them in Brazilian shopee.


----------



## SlimCharles

jogawag said:


> 1MORE Piston EO320





rprodrigues said:


> Can you access Spanish shopee?
> If so, ask this seller https://shopee.es/fenwei9z.es about q69. He sells them in Brazilian shopee.
> 
> Update: the seller fengru.es also sells them in Brazilian shopee.



Thanks a lot. I'm actually gonna try to get both: I know Qian69 very well and it's just what I want. And the EO320 seems like it ticks all the boxes: warm-ish, slim, it has a mic...


----------



## FranQL

SlimCharles said:


> Thanks a lot. I'm actually gonna try to get both: I know Qian69 very well and it's just what I want. And the EO320 seems like it ticks all the boxes: warm-ish, slim, it has a mic...



https://miberia.com/es/auriculares/...s.html?id_product_attribute=114#/5-color-gris

In this Spanish store you have them at a very good price


----------



## SlimCharles

Thanks!

I tried asking the shopee dealer for the Qianyun, but he told me "all our products are available at our store". Seems like they only ship it with their Brasil store. Shame, might be possible that the Qianyun follows the shame destiny as the Baldoor E100 and disappears forever. It's not the end of the audiophile hobby, but it is a very nice very cheap earbud.


----------



## Eduardiofilo

Hi to all the people!

Can you recommend me high impedance drivers please?

If you can attach the link of the driver that would be nice . I will appreciate any recomendation a lot guys, seriously a lot


----------



## ARES 35

nomadik said:


> What a nice looking bud! It's the 14.8mm shell, right? I can't find anything like that on AE. Could you post a link for that shell and the "drivers cover"?


Hey I'm not 100% sure if this is the same shell than the one in that picture but it looks similiar, pick the red sandalwood colour 15.4mm option.

AliExpress Link:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100....store_pc_groupList.8148356.27.6eb65584fDPrXs


----------



## baskingshark

15th April is the 2nd anniversary of the passing our respected friend and earbuds enthusiast Hungry Panda, who sadly passed on from covid that was contracted while working in the line of duty (at a hospital).




He was a very friendly and nice guy on this forum, extremely approachable and humble, and it is a big loss to the audio world to lose him. Here's to a minute's memory of our friend, who will not be forgotten!


----------



## ARES 35

SlimCharles said:


> I can't find the qianyun qian69. Any other alternative? Tried yincrow x6 and it sounds just as good, but it's a bit difficult to fit in.


You could try the QianYun Qian39 instead, I know it's not the Qian69 exact shape or sound but still I like my Qian39 a lot. I found it sold on AliExpress at Ollivan Earphones Store for around 9€ not including shipping costs.

Link to Qian39:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.7.6d3a6f8ahc4zNR


----------



## 1clearhead

baskingshark said:


> 15th April is the 2nd anniversary of the passing our respected friend and earbuds enthusiast Hungry Panda, who sadly passed on from covid that was contracted while working in the line of duty (at a hospital).
> 
> 
> 
> He was a very friendly and nice guy on this forum, extremely approachable and humble, and it is a big loss to the audio world to lose him. Here's to a minute's memory of our friend, who will not be forgotten!


Yes, he was the "KING EARBUD MAKER"!...It's really going to be hard for anyone to fill his shoes and make earbuds the way he tuned them as described by many that got them.

His life in head-fi.org and the whole earbud industry...
https://www.audioreviews.org/remembering-thomas-wilson-alias-the-hungrypanda-jk/


-Clear


----------



## Scuba Devils

I took a bit of a break from buds, due to some IEM distractions! I plan time this weekend with my 'Tofino' by @tgx78 

Also, I was looking at the new Shozy Gold on Penon, I'm guessing no impressions out yet?


----------



## shenshen (Apr 15, 2022)

its been a while


qlabs custom


----------



## Charlyro222

Testing new Di COOPER Cable With Asura 2.0


----------



## Into The Light5 (Apr 16, 2022)

Bought 2 buds out of curiosity, both dont have any wow factor to my ears, especially the mx98s, it is just too overpriced imo, the technicalities is what lack too much for the price they ask for. The soundstage and depth is narrow, feels like any $7 bud. Probably the price went for its packaging, storage pouch and the silver cable. The tg38s and tc200 is far better imo. For the qian25 it is kinda fine for me, if you like tc200 but want a bit of warmth at the cost of technicalities, this is the right choice.


----------



## mika91

Hi,
I really liked the fit and comfort of the old Bose quiet comfort, so I'm looking for half-in-ear earphones.
I saw topics about the memt t5, but nothing else (expected for TWS)
Any recommendations?
Thanks


----------



## captione

baskingshark said:


> 15th April is the 2nd anniversary of the passing our respected friend and earbuds enthusiast Hungry Panda, who sadly passed on from covid that was contracted while working in the line of duty (at a hospital).
> 
> 
> 
> He was a very friendly and nice guy on this forum, extremely approachable and humble, and it is a big loss to the audio world to lose him. Here's to a minute's memory of our friend, who will not be forgotten!


He's one of the guys that got me into earbuds. I'll miss him a lot.


----------



## baskingshark

captione said:


> He's one of the guys that got me into earbuds. I'll miss him a lot.



Indeed, actually I was very anti earbud prior to meeting him and his wife mbwilson111 (hope she is doing okay). 

Back then I was quite snotty and looked down on earbuds and thought they were a cheap afterthought that was bundled free with smartphones. They were the ones that convinced me to give a try for earbuds, and here I am today still using earbuds!


----------



## samandhi

As to earbuds that are BT (OOTB) only a few exist to my knowledge; Apple Air (most versions), and Sony Linkbuds. Bose went away from their open design of the Sound Sport Free which were open but directed into the ear like the Apple buds. None of these, BTW, are/were budget. Most TWS occupy themselves with being BT IEMs (though any Google search will wrongly show you all of these as earbuds). 

IMHO if you want great BT earbuds, get a great pair (whether DIY or retail), and get some BT adapter like the Fiio UTWS or iBasso CF01, etc...


----------



## ARES 35

mika91 said:


> Hi,
> I really liked the fit and comfort of the old Bose quiet comfort, so I'm looking for half-in-ear earphones.
> I saw topics about the memt t5, but nothing else (expected for TWS)
> Any recommendations?
> Thanks


Hey I would recommend any of the Huawei FreeBuds models like the FreeBuds 3 or 4 ANC (not the In-ear versions), you can maybe find the FreeBuds 3 sold around 80$ on Amazon or other websites, then there is the JBL Tune 225TWS that are a good choice as well, but only if you find them for sale at around 50-80$ at their full price of 100$ it's not so good value for money. JBL Tune 205BT are good bluetooth (not TWS) non In-ear earbuds for around 10-40$. The Apple Airpods 2nd and 3rd Gen are not good value for money since they are quite expensive at 150-200$ but they do their job as comfortable TWS earbuds (sound quality per $ sucks though), there is also the Sony LinkBuds 180$, but just like the AirPods they are overpriced and expensive while having below average sound quality.

You could use any of the great value for money wired earbuds that are recommended and talked about in this thread, there are many good earbuds to choose from and they will sound better than any of these bluetooth models I've mentioned, here a couple of good cheap ones you could try: QianYun Qian39 10-15$, Yincrow X6 15$, Vido earbuds (new silver logo model) 1-5$, NiceHCK EB2S 25-30$, K'sEarphones KLBBS 40-60$.

You can find them all sold on AliExpress at different sellers for example NiceHCK Audio Store for X6, EB2S and KLBBS. Ollivan Earphones Store for Qian39 and Daylight Digital Store for Vidos.

The wireless earbuds are sold on different stores like Amazon or Sony, JBL, Apple and Huawei's own websites.


----------



## ARES 35

Eduardiofilo said:


> Hi to all the people!
> 
> Can you recommend me high impedance drivers please?
> 
> If you can attach the link of the driver that would be nice . I will appreciate any recomendation a lot guys, seriously a lot


Hi there! I found some drivers sold on AliExpress at XinYue Audio Store, but I haven't used them so can't comment on the sound quality. There is three different models I found called: 150ohm "Bass" drivers, 150ohm "Vocal, for classical music" drivers and 300ohm "Warm Vocals" drivers. You could try any of those, the seller also sells lots of different DIY earbud materials like different shells etc.

150ohm "Bass"
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...store_pc_allProduct.8148356.20.63df522752hdbP

150ohm "Vocal, for classical music"
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...store_pc_allProduct.8148356.15.81575d52le7gca

300ohm "Warm Vocals"
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...store_pc_allProduct.8148356.45.3cd5283akhKcR6


----------



## samandhi

ARES 35 said:


> Hey I would recommend any of the Huawei FreeBuds models like the FreeBuds 3 or 4 ANC (not the In-ear versions), you can maybe find the FreeBuds 3 sold around 80$ on Amazon or other websites, then there is the JBL Tune 225TWS that are a good choice as well, but only if you find them for sale at around 50-80$ at their full price of 100$ it's not so good value for money. JBL Tune 205BT are good bluetooth (not TWS) non In-ear earbuds for around 10-40$. The Apple Airpods 2nd and 3rd Gen are not good value for money since they are quite expensive at 150-200$ but they do their job as comfortable TWS earbuds (sound quality per $ sucks though), there is also the Sony LinkBuds 180$, but just like the AirPods they are overpriced and expensive while having below average sound quality.
> 
> You could use any of the great value for money wired earbuds that are recommended and talked about in this thread, there are many good earbuds to choose from and they will sound better than any of these bluetooth models I've mentioned, here a couple of good cheap ones you could try: QianYun Qian39 10-15$, Yincrow X6 15$, Vido earbuds (new silver logo model) 1-5$, NiceHCK EB2S 25-30$, K'sEarphones KLBBS 40-60$.
> 
> ...


I would have to agree with most of what you said, except that the Linkbuds sound is below average. In fact, I find them to sound much better than average for a TWS (especially one that only has SBC and AAC) to my surprise. I would put them up there with some of the best true earbuds out there (being also a true earbud, not going into the ear at all). That being said, they are definitely very expensive. I don't know if I would deem them way overpriced, given the new design, tech, size, etc... AFAIK these are the first, and only classic style earbuds combined with TWS. 

All of the others aren't true earbuds because they still go partially into your ears. Though I am nitpicking I suppose, because they are still pretty much open like earbuds, so I guess we could call that one a wash...  As for myself, I really liked the design of the Bose sport semi-in-ear design they used to use, and only wished they were tuned better. They were so comfortable, yet open(ish), but sounded pretty bad (to me).


----------



## ARES 35

samandhi said:


> I would have to agree with most of what you said, except that the Linkbuds sound is below average. In fact, I find them to sound much better than average for a TWS (especially one that only has SBC and AAC) to my surprise. I would put them up there with some of the best true earbuds out there (being also a true earbud, not going into the ear at all). That being said, they are definitely very expensive. I don't know if I would deem them way overpriced, given the new design, tech, size, etc... AFAIK these are the first, and only classic style earbuds combined with TWS.
> 
> All of the others aren't true earbuds because they still go partially into your ears. Though I am nitpicking I suppose, because they are still pretty much open like earbuds, so I guess we could call that one a wash...  As for myself, I really liked the design of the Bose sport semi-in-ear design they used to use, and only wished they were tuned better. They were so comfortable, yet open(ish), but sounded pretty bad (to me).


Hey samandhi I guess I was being too harsh on the LinkBuds, what I meant is that they are not good sounding for their cost of 180$ and they have bad sound quality per dollar value in my opinion, generally though compared to other TWS yeah the sound quality is not that bad. I tried them before and really wanted to like them since the cool open like design, but I found that the fit didn't work for me and there was some discomfort after using them a couple of hours, also the bass frequencies were lacking (I know it's common in earbuds world to lack bass and have sound quality affected by bad fit) so the sound quality wasn't worth it for me at 180$ and maybe they sound better to others with no fit issues, so I got a refund on them perhaps in the future they make a LinkBuds v2.0 with better SQ and comfort.

I can still use many earbuds like the MX500 shell type ones just fine and other IEMs as well with no comfort issues though. The Huawei FreeBuds 3 & 4 (non Pro) are non In-ear earbuds and same with the AirPods v2 & v3 (non Pro) also are shaped like the original old Apple earbuds or any MX500 shell ones that are non In-ear, same with the JBL T205BT and T225TWS, but if you mean none of the other earbuds are openback styled like the Sony LinkBuds then yeah technically they still go in your ear a little bit, but that's why it's also called half-In-ear LOL!


----------



## samandhi

ARES 35 said:


> Hey samandhi I guess I was being too harsh on the LinkBuds, what I meant is that they are not good sounding for their cost of 180$ and they have bad sound quality per dollar value in my opinion, generally though compared to other TWS yeah the sound quality is not that bad. I tried them before and really wanted to like them since the cool open like design, but I found that the fit didn't work for me and there was some discomfort after using them a couple of hours, also the bass frequencies were lacking (I know it's common in earbuds world to lack bass and have sound quality affected by bad fit) so the sound quality wasn't worth it for me at 180$ and maybe they sound better to others with no fit issues, so I got a refund on them perhaps in the future they make a LinkBuds v2.0 with better SQ and comfort.
> 
> I can still use many earbuds like the MX500 shell type ones just fine and other IEMs as well with no comfort issues though. The Huawei FreeBuds 3 & 4 (non Pro) are non In-ear earbuds and same with the AirPods v2 & v3 (non Pro) also are shaped like the original old Apple earbuds or any MX500 shell ones that are non In-ear, same with the JBL T205BT and T225TWS, but if you mean none of the other earbuds are openback styled like the Sony LinkBuds then yeah technically they still go in your ear a little bit, but that's why it's also called half-In-ear LOL!


No, no. If it is your opinion that they don't sound very good, then you are right (for your ears), and I would never try and argue that point...  That being said, they DO fit me nicely, and therefore I get the intended sound profile. They do lack some sub-bass, but they actually have more overall bass than most classic earbuds do. I was more suprised though at the treble tuning. Being only AAC or SBC, it shocked me that there was some good clarity in the treble. 

I did have some discomfort in the beginning when I first got my Linkbuds also, but after a few weeks with them, I no longer do and can listen to them till the battery runs out. I used to put full foams from earbuds over them and that helped, but I no longer need those either. 

Again, you are right, and I WAS being nitpick(y) about the definition of earbuds.... The kind of open I was talking about, was nothing going into your ears not half, nor full. While the half in-ear buds can sound pretty good, you still lose a ton of staging and that open earbud/headphone sound that they are known for IMO.  Either way those are some pretty good recs for TWS.


----------



## IesaAR

Hello everyone 

I've been watching this thread for a while and having gotten my hands on a set of KSC75s recently I've considered trying out some earbuds for a similar portable experience.

I have heard of a few recommendations, K's LBBS and Nicehck EB2S to name a few but I'm unsure if these are still relevant. I'm interested in a neutral ish sound signature though I'm honestly not too fussy - I'm mostly just interested to see how good quality earbuds sound.

Are those earbuds still worth buying in 2022? If not, could I please get some recommendations under £50. 

Thanks!


----------



## KutuzovGambit

I just received the PAC earbuds which are currently free with most Penon or ISN cable purchases, they are really quite good especially being free! The sound is full (especially with foams), relatively balanced, good stage and timbre, very good imaging, slightly mellow but not overly smoothing the details to achieve it.

If you’ve been thinking about buying a cable this is a great time to take advantage of the site wide sale and get a good pair of buds for free.


----------



## Sam L

KutuzovGambit said:


> I just received the PAC earbuds which are currently free with most Penon or ISN cable purchases, they are really quite good especially being free! The sound is full (especially with foams), relatively balanced, good stage and timbre, very good imaging, slightly mellow but not overly smoothing the details to achieve it.
> 
> If you’ve been thinking about buying a cable this is a great time to take advantage of the site wide sale and get a good pair of buds for free.


What cable is that? I've had to cut off the heat shrink to allow straight down wear.


----------



## KutuzovGambit

Sam L said:


> What cable is that? I've had to cut off the heat shrink to allow straight down wear.


Cable that comes with Smabat M3 Pro.


----------



## samandhi

KutuzovGambit said:


> Cable that comes with Smabat M3 Pro.


I have been trying to buy Smabat replacement cables and can't seem to find them. I wrote to Smabat, and their reply was indirect at best. They replied with a link to their website and to look for all that I might need there. I assume that means they can't be bought without purchasing earbuds, since I found nothing there regarding replacement cables.


----------



## KutuzovGambit

samandhi said:


> I have been trying to buy Smabat replacement cables and can't seem to find them. I wrote to Smabat, and their reply was indirect at best. They replied with a link to their website and to look for all that I might need there. I assume that means they can't be bought without purchasing earbuds, since I found nothing there regarding replacement cables.


Sadly you seem to be correct. I think their cables would be popular if they were well priced.

As it is I recommend contacting XinHS on AE to customize some cables without earhooks for you.


----------



## cqtek

NiceHCK's latest lucky bag turned out to be a colourful new version of the Traceless. You could call them the NiceHCK Traceless 2022.
I bought three with microphones, one for my wife, one for my brother and one for work. They'll be great for video conferencing - the green ones are mine!


----------



## samandhi

cqtek said:


> NiceHCK's latest lucky bag turned out to be a colourful new version of the Traceless. You could call them the NiceHCK Traceless 2022.
> I bought three with microphones, one for my wife, one for my brother and one for work. They'll be great for video conferencing - the green ones are mine!


Were those brand new? The mic box on the green ones looks quite scratched up to my eyes...


----------



## cqtek

samandhi said:


> Were those brand new? The mic box on the green ones looks quite scratched up to my eyes...


Really? I think the camera has too much resolution and makes some weird effects with the flash. Nothing major. Buy it without mic and no problem


----------



## Sam L

Curious, I have to think there are some here that have been experimenting with 3d printed buds?


----------



## captione

Sam L said:


> Curious, I have to think there are some here that have been experimenting with 3d printed buds?


@ValSuki currently makes some.


----------



## mika91

ARES 35 said:


> Hey I would recommend any of the Huawei FreeBuds models like the FreeBuds 3 or 4 ANC (not the In-ear versions), you can maybe find the FreeBuds 3 sold around 80$ on Amazon or other websites, then there is the JBL Tune 225TWS that are a good choice as well, but only if you find them for sale at around 50-80$ at their full price of 100$ it's not so good value for money. JBL Tune 205BT are good bluetooth (not TWS) non In-ear earbuds for around 10-40$. The Apple Airpods 2nd and 3rd Gen are not good value for money since they are quite expensive at 150-200$ but they do their job as comfortable TWS earbuds (sound quality per $ sucks though), there is also the Sony LinkBuds 180$, but just like the AirPods they are overpriced and expensive while having below average sound quality.
> 
> You could use any of the great value for money wired earbuds that are recommended and talked about in this thread, there are many good earbuds to choose from and they will sound better than any of these bluetooth models I've mentioned, here a couple of good cheap ones you could try: QianYun Qian39 10-15$, Yincrow X6 15$, Vido earbuds (new silver logo model) 1-5$, NiceHCK EB2S 25-30$, K'sEarphones KLBBS 40-60$.
> 
> ...


Hi,
Thanks for the answer 
In fact I'm looking for wired earbuds (no Bluetooth or TWS).
The fit and comfort is very important to me, and the Bose quietcomfort and nicehck graphene (mx760 shell) were the best models I tried.
I currently have nicehck ebx, but they do not fit very well.


----------



## furyossa (Apr 20, 2022)

mika91 said:


> Hi,
> Thanks for the answer
> In fact I'm looking for wired earbuds (no Bluetooth or TWS).
> The fit and comfort is very important to me, and the Bose quietcomfort and nicehck graphene (mx760 shell) were the best models I tried.
> I currently have nicehck ebx, but they do not fit very well.


Nicehck EBX uses 14.8mm driver. You can use PK or Docomo shell which will help you with fit and comfort.
I swapped mine in Docomo shell because one of mmcx sockets start to lose the contact.


----------



## RockSloth

cqtek said:


> NiceHCK's latest lucky bag turned out to be a colourful new version of the Traceless. You could call them the NiceHCK Traceless 2022.
> I bought three with microphones, one for my wife, one for my brother and one for work. They'll be great for video conferencing - the green ones are mine!


I had these in the basket but it had expired when I went back. 

Does anyone know if the majority of the mx500 buds with 15.4mm driver (traceless, Vido, stellar, etc.) are all using the same driver?


----------



## nomadik

ARES 35 said:


> Hey I'm not 100% sure if this is the same shell than the one in that picture but it looks similiar, pick the red sandalwood colour 15.4mm option.
> 
> AliExpress Link:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100....store_pc_groupList.8148356.27.6eb65584fDPrXs


Thanks! But unfortunately I'm looking for the 14.8mm shell version. Or maybe @FranQL did use this 15.4mm shell for the PK 150 driver?


----------



## FranQL

nomadik said:


> Thanks! But unfortunately I'm looking for the 14.8mm shell version. Or maybe @FranQL did use this 15.4mm shell for the PK 150 driver?



Hello! you mean pk150 Ohm in wooden shell?

I changed the faceplates from pk 14.8 mm to 15.4 mm (metal), once fixed I used a conventional 15.4 mm wooden shell, there are several types of wood.


----------



## numon

Buchi said:


> I received my Smabat ST20 and as others have said, it's really a big and heavy piece but the sound is splendid. Using double foams, silicon cover + full foam or an earhook made the fit better for me. The sound from it is richer than say the M2Spro with super point drivers installed. The bass hits harder, better clarity, timbre and wider soundstage. Sadly, the LBBS feels obliterated in comparison.
> 
> This is my endgame earbud. I'm happy I took the bait at half the retail price. If anything sounds better than it, I'm sure I won't be able to afford it.


can you give more  comparison (detail,separation..)between  st20 vs m2spro black one  i have also black one driver m2spro.i really wonder .


----------



## cqtek

RockSloth said:


> I had these in the basket but it had expired when I went back.
> 
> Does anyone know if the majority of the mx500 buds with 15.4mm driver (traceless, Vido, stellar, etc.) are all using the same driver?


I don't know if they use the same driver. But I wrote a comparative review between the Traceless and the Stellar and they didn't sound the same to me. 
It's here:

https://hiendportable.com/kbear-stellar-review/


----------



## pr0b3r

My Rose Technics Martini just arrived and I'd like to share my initial thoughts.

OOTB impressions are that these are warm earbuds with superb clarity. Subbass goes deep and made me feel like something was crawling inside my ear canals. 😅 In a good way though. Mids has enough body. Notes have average weight; not thin nor overly thickened. I noticed that there's a borderline peakiness from the upper mids going to lower treble. Still okay for me when tested with some fav tracks with high-pitched female vocals though. Treble has enough shimmer and sparkle but still leans a bit on the smoother side. No fatiguing experience so far. Stage is tall and wide, with decent depth. Overall sound quality and resolution, definitely worthy of being in the mid to upper tier, IMO.

Will further test after some time in the burner and will hopefully finish a mini review. 🙂


----------



## ValSuki

Sam L said:


> Curious, I have to think there are some here that have been experimenting with 3d printed buds?





Currently only FDM, but im putting my future funds into a resin printer to increase quality and possibly better designs. But for now, only FDM. 

Oh and for those wondering, im making a planar design again. Cracked the code of how planars operate so I can maybe get a functioning planar earbud. Not gonna be cheap though if I get these out there! But we'll see haha.


----------



## waynes world

IesaAR said:


> Hello everyone
> 
> I've been watching this thread for a while and having gotten my hands on a set of KSC75s recently I've considered trying out some earbuds for a similar portable experience.
> 
> ...



I'm not familiar with the EB2S, but it's definitely still worth buying the LBBS imo, and I think they would compare nicely to the KSC75's in that they are neutralish. Another great sounding pair to consider are the Newbsound 32pro's. For those, you need to contact @irv003


----------



## jogawag (May 24, 2022)

RockSloth said:


> I had these in the basket but it had expired when I went back.
> 
> Does anyone know if the majority of the mx500 buds with 15.4mm driver (traceless, Vido, stellar, etc.) are all using the same driver?


It is not clear to what extent the majority of mx500 buds refers, but Vido and its tuning-modified versions Tracelece and Yincrow X6 are in the Vido group.
See review by @cenizas below.
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/yincrow-x6.22393/reviews#item-review-23970

About Stellar is noted previous by @cqtek below.
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kbear-stellar.24668/reviews#item-review-25182


----------



## tendou

Any earbud shaped like qianyun39 but with mic?


----------



## BCool

A lot of higher-end buds seem to have really high impedances (150-300 Ohms) compared to IEMs (16-32 Ohms), does this make a big difference in the amping requirements? It seems odd that such small transducers would require more power than full size headphones


----------



## jogawag

tendou said:


> Any earbud shaped like qianyun39 but with mic?


Qian39 with mic is on the page below.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002275229979.html


----------



## baskingshark

BCool said:


> A lot of higher-end buds seem to have really high impedances (150-300 Ohms) compared to IEMs (16-32 Ohms), does this make a big difference in the amping requirements? It seems odd that such small transducers would require more power than full size headphones



One must look at the sensitivity too (not the impedance in isolation) when it comes to amplification.

You can check out this nifty calculator here: https://www.headphonesty.com/headphone-power-calculator/ on how much power you would need for a particular transducer (get the sensitivity and impedance values ready).


----------



## BCool

Thank you! I shall bookmark that link for future reference.


----------



## jao29

baskingshark said:


> One must look at the sensitivity too (not the impedance in isolation) when it comes to amplification.
> 
> You can check out this nifty calculator here: https://www.headphonesty.com/headphone-power-calculator/ on how much power you would need for a particular transducer (get the sensitivity and impedance values ready).


Tried putting in the specs for the Ve Zen 2.0. 

The compatibility devices include the Iphone 6. Does that mean the Zen 2.0 can be used without an amp when using an IPhone 6?


----------



## baskingshark

jao29 said:


> Tried putting in the specs for the Ve Zen 2.0.
> 
> The compatibility devices include the Iphone 6. Does that mean the Zen 2.0 can be used without an amp when using an IPhone 6?



Don't think the iphone 6 can drive that optimally. It is highlighted in red. Those highlighted in green means they are good to go.

From the values you entered - 300 ohm, and 106 db/mw, the calculator churns out a value of 0.95Vmrs. So the iphone and galaxy S5 are below that cut off.



Amplification is not about volume. I mean, we can attach a planar or very high impedance transducer to a low powered smartphone and just jack the volume to the max and you will get sound. The issue is that with insufficient juice relative to the transducer requirements, you get loss of dynamics, a looser/flabbier bass, perhaps loss in soundstage etc. So one will not be doing justice to the sound.


----------



## jao29

baskingshark said:


> Don't think the iphone 6 can drive that optimally. It is highlighted in red. Those highlighted in green means they are good to go.
> 
> From the values you entered - 300 ohm, and 106 db/mw, the calculator churns out a value of 0.95Vmrs. So the iphone and galaxy S5 are below that cut off.
> 
> ...


Got it. Thank you


----------



## tendou

jogawag said:


> Qian39 with mic is on the page below.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002275229979.html


Thank you! I thought there was no such things. Other than qian39 is there other earbuds using the same comfortable shell? Monk lite seems the same but people said sound quality is bad


----------



## jogawag

tendou said:


> Thank you! I thought there was no such things. Other than qian39 is there other earbuds using the same comfortable shell? Monk lite seems the same but people said sound quality is bad


The same Venture Electronics product, zen LL, uses the same shell. This sound quality is well received.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000074122440.html


----------



## tendou

jogawag said:


> The same Venture Electronics product, zen LL, uses the same shell. This sound quality is well received.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000074122440.html


Thanks! A bit out of my budget though


----------



## RikudouGoku

BCool said:


> A lot of higher-end buds seem to have really high impedances (150-300 Ohms) compared to IEMs (16-32 Ohms), does this make a big difference in the amping requirements? It seems odd that such small transducers would require more power than full size headphones





baskingshark said:


> One must look at the sensitivity too (not the impedance in isolation) when it comes to amplification.
> 
> You can check out this nifty calculator here: https://www.headphonesty.com/headphone-power-calculator/ on how much power you would need for a particular transducer (get the sensitivity and impedance values ready).


Along with what Baskingshark linked, you need to take the amp´s current limitation depending on the impedance of the transducer into the consideration.

Take the Luxury & Precision W2 for example.




The specified power output is 230mw at 32ohm.
Converting that value into VRMS:



https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/watt-volt-amp-calculator.html 

we get 2,7 VRMS at 32ohm.





As shown here, if you take a look at around 32ohm, you can see that the VRMS is also around 2,7. Does this mean that the VRMS is also the same for 300 ohm transducers? No, as you can see the graph is not flat and the VRMS is around 4 for everything above 40 ohm. This is the current limitation that is caused by the lower impedances, where you can see that the amp is limiting the current when you have a lower impedance with the transducer. 


TLDR: its not only the impedance and sensitivity of the transducer you have to take into consideration. You need to know how your amp responds to the impedance itself.


----------



## Bloos (Apr 23, 2022)

Two questions as an earbud newb:

1. Does the housing/shell plastic choice matter for sound quality on Faaeal's earbuds?
Ex. solid black vs. transparent grey versions of the Faaeal Iris 2.0

2. Does the 2022 nicehck traceless (purple/green) sound any different from the previous traceless red&blue version?

Iris 2.0: https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32672730349.html?
2022 traceless:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005004166701966.html?


----------



## mochill

Periodic audio nickel can do 275-550mw @32ohm


----------



## samandhi

mochill said:


> Periodic audio nickel can do 275-550mw @32ohm


That is really good for an ultra-portable device.


----------



## mochill

samandhi said:


> That is really good for an ultra-portable device.


Yup , also audeep has 700mw @32ohm


----------



## jao29

RikudouGoku said:


> Along with what Baskingshark linked, you need to take the amp´s current limitation depending on the impedance of the transducer into the consideration.
> 
> Take the Luxury & Precision W2 for example.
> 
> ...


I have a Kann Alpha that is set to Mid gain most of the time. As specified by Ak’s website, the mid gain amp for this Dap is 4vrms. Does that mean it can drive the Ve Zen 2.0 (320 ohms) on mid gain?


----------



## Scuba Devils

I'm planning my next set of buds which I want primarily for ambient music. I find the genre benefits from as large a stage as possible, good detail, more sub than mid bass and clear mids, plus decent sparkle. I'm open in terms of budget - Sun Dice is on the radar, but does it tick those boxes? I've been curious about Shozy Gold but no impressions out there yet. Appreciate any suggestions 🙏


----------



## RikudouGoku

jao29 said:


> I have a Kann Alpha that is set to Mid gain most of the time. As specified by Ak’s website, the mid gain amp for this Dap is 4vrms. Does that mean it can drive the Ve Zen 2.0 (320 ohms) on mid gain?


Just looked it up and they dont specify the impedance...so that information doesnt really tell much....


But yes,if you are getting 4 vrms at 320 ohm it is no problem.


----------



## Trentof

Advice on what to buy from headphones, I like the music to be fun sounding. I got a Yuin PK1 from Taobao.
NiceHCK EB2S https://aliexpress.ru/item/1005004006000741.html
Moondrop https://aliexpress.ru/item/33023656093.html
VE Monk Plus SPC https://aliexpress.ru/item/32417311324.html
maybe something else?


----------



## jao29

RikudouGoku said:


> Just looked it up and they dont specify the impedance...so that information doesnt really tell much....
> 
> 
> But yes,if you are getting 4 vrms at 320 ohm it is no problem.


Thank you. The Zen is one of my faves but there are times I just want to plug and play with earbuds. 

I pair mine with the Q1 mkii by fiio and its awesome.


----------



## jogawag

Trentof said:


> Advice on what to buy from headphones, I like the music to be fun sounding. I got a Yuin PK1 from Taobao.
> NiceHCK EB2S https://aliexpress.ru/item/1005004006000741.html
> Moondrop https://aliexpress.ru/item/33023656093.html
> VE Monk Plus SPC https://aliexpress.ru/item/32417311324.html
> maybe something else?


I recommend you Shozy Cygnus which provides ample bass and vivid treble brilliance.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32617015283.html


----------



## Rick1982

Wich bud is a real and concrete upgrade of LBBs (Equalized, thanks @RikudouGoku)?
Dome opinion on the Ourart Qj21? There is one review only (very positive)?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Rick1982 said:


> Wich bud is a real and concrete upgrade of LBBs (Equalized, thanks @RikudouGoku)?


If you mean my latest PEQ target here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rik...-list-music-list.925319/page-57#post-16492062

I havent found any upgrades except for DIY.


----------



## Rick1982

RikudouGoku said:


> If you mean my latest PEQ target here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rik...-list-music-list.925319/page-57#post-16492062
> 
> I havent found any upgrades except for DIY.


Yes, 2021-11-30 update with second low shelf with 6db instead of 13db.
With this settings i find LBBs on par with a lot of full size open back headphones.


----------



## nymz

*RikuBuds - Berserker 1 and Lancer 1*​







Alright, it’s that time of the year again. The buds are making a comeback in my collection, as I gave most of what I had away to friends and random people, leaving me mostly with my trusted custom DIY Blur PK32.

Earbuds are starting to trend again as two well known chads decided to start selling their stuff: @RikudouGoku  and @tgx78. I’m close to both and I could not let the opportunity pass to talk about their work and help it get some recognition, which brings us to this post, which will address 2 RG Buds I got last week and spent some hours with each one.

_*Disclaimer: All the listening was done using Tidal Hifi and Flac files. Sources used were mainly Cayin N3 Pro (solid state), Xduoo MT-602 and Xduoo XD-05 Plus with Burson V5i Opamps. I paid for the buds with my own money but was given a big discount. No incentives were given to write anything about these, good or bad. All thoughts and opinions will be my own, despite my close relationship with Riku.*_



*The house sound*​
Unless you live under a rock, everyone knows Riku’s target and preferences tilt into basshead territory. Elevated sub-bass with a clean cut into the mids and a not so elevated pinna gain, but giving preference to a well extended upper treble.

These preferences passed on to his work. His house sound revolves around bass, with sub over mid, with fast and tight impacts. His favorite technicality, just like mine, it’s the need for a very open and airy soundstage, which I welcome every day of the week, and his buds deliver just that.

Where we always end up disagreeing is on (upper) mids or lower treble, but I’m confident enough to say that he knows what he is doing and he’s taking a good neutral approach regarding these.

So far, great. Now into specifics!



*RG Earbuds - Lancer 1*






Before I start, I wanna leave a word on driveability and scalability. Lancer 1 has 150ohm and will eat most people you throw at it. The reason I’m mentioning this is that I can’t recommend it if you plan to straight plug it into your phone or apple dongle. Buds scaling is much bigger, closer to open backs than to IEMs. You’ve been warned.

Lancer 1 promises a land of less bass quantity and more emphasis on other regions. If I had to describe its FR, I would say with some certainty that it’s a W-shaped earbud. 

*Sub-bass* is tastefully done and elevated, extending lower frequencies effortlessly, using that mid-bass clean cut to show its claws without bleeding into the mids. This results in a lot of texture, which even a basslet (compared to him) like me claps like a seal. The mid bass is clean but has a lot of impact, despite not being the star of the show. This is the second best bass I’ve heard in any bud, only surpassed by its brother below.

The rest of the *mid frequency* is pretty neutral to slight forward, and could use more detail, but due to the tuning and my IEM spoiled brain, this is more a nitpick than an actual flaw. What I’m not a fan of, is male vocals, which feel a bit recessed and blurred into the mid chops of a song. The female ones are actually fine where I could use a bit more bite, but it doesn't bother me at all. 

*Treble* is pretty neutral and tastefully done as well. Nothing ever feels sharp, out of place, making you settled to enjoy these for a full work day without any problem. Extension is there but not overly cooked, making you miss no detail and bringing lots of air into the mix.

Now *technicalities* are absolutely stunning but one part: separation and layering in the mid frequencies. This is the only thing I think could be improved and I have to point out, because every other thing about techs is great to me, including its timbre or resolving power.

Quickly *comparing* them with my Blurs PK32, the Lancer 1 has straight out better bass and timbre. The Blurs still win from mids to the upper treble, feeling less veiled and better separation thrown into the mix. The stage and imaging are better in the Lancer 1. Overall I think they are pretty different and better at stuff that the other isn’t, which shows incredible value on Lancer 1 when compared directly to a many times more expensive Blur. For those source freaks like me, Lancer 1 also scales better than Blur with power and tubes (directly or pre-amped).

Lancer 1 reminds me a lot of a Blur MX64 STE, but with much better timbre and less fatiguing, maybe giving the impression of coming out as a hair less resolving. I would take Lancer 1 over it, anyway and I consider it an upgrade to that pair, and costs half the asking price.

*Value rank: 5/5; Personal Rank: S+*



*RG Earbuds - Berserker 1*




The bassy brother. _“*** you, bass”_ as Crinnacle would put it. 

L-shape with upper mids recession, the Zerker is the dark coffee of your morning. I was only going for Lancer 1 but I caved and got the brother as well. It was surprising since the first track. Despite its bass elevation, it's more immersive and less in your face replay… Unless you blast the volume knob! Scales pretty well, let me tell you.

*Sub-bass* heavy, clean cutted transition into the mids, the star of the show. Tight, fast, detailed and textured, taking over the replay. It’s so well that that makes some IEM’s sub-bass cry. It’s the best earbud bass I’ve heard, period.

*Mid-bass* is more tucked in, just enough for warmth and presence, and giving a great replay of male vocals. 

The upper *mids* are a bit recessed, making it not the best suited for extended female vocal replays or piano concerts, but still well done and not offensive.

*Treble* is on the darker side, despite a little bit of extension. If it was an IEM, we were talking about EJ07 levels of upper treble or less (WTB EST buds, by the way). Cymbals and guitars feel somewhat recessed and tucked in, missing some of that upper harmonic detail and giving it a sense of a faster decay, but again, nothing offensive to the replay. I get a feeling it is not its focus anyway.

*Technically* speaking, just like its brother, the stage and imaging are great, but the Lancer is more detailed and with better timbre. Resolving power feels less due to not having as much treble fake sense of details, but given its low end, I will have to say the details are still pretty good.

Even though it’s not my usual tuning, I pretty much love it in its specific genres. I have no doubt in my mind that the Berserker 1 is a top notch contender for bassheads or the usual X6/Qian39 upgrade searchers. 

*Value rank: 5/5; Personal Rank: S*



*Conclusions*

These two earbuds will be kept in my daily rotations. Lancer 1 is closer to my tastes but the Zerker has earned its own spot due to its stellar bass for an earbud.

Each of these two buds retails for 50 Eur + shipping, putting it in a strong contender spot for endgame in the earbud world, without breaking the bank. @Rikudou_Goku's work gets the Cult seal of approval. If this is the start, sky might be the limit. Cables lack some quality but are more than fine, and I know it’s something he’s trying to work around. If you're ever looking for buds, talk to him and let him guide you on his offers (when he has stock). The guy deserves the support.

Touché. Can't wait to hear @tgx78 's Serratus.


----------



## samandhi (Apr 23, 2022)

jao29 said:


> I have a Kann Alpha that is set to Mid gain most of the time. As specified by Ak’s website, the mid gain amp for this Dap is 4vrms. Does that mean it can drive the Ve Zen 2.0 (320 ohms) on mid gain?


It will drive them, but I suspect it would be a bit warm and/or muddy sounding in the lower end lacking clarity, and you might not have much headroom, if any (the louder you turn the volume, the further away from intended sound it will have, though whether that sound is good to you is to be seen). It looks as though that 4vrms they listed is with no load. If it were me, I would switch between the high and med and let your ears be your guide.

This is one of those situations where it can be driven, but to be driven well... well again, your ears can be the judge here.

Edit: Much like graphs, a calculator can't give you the full picture here.


----------



## mt877 (Apr 23, 2022)

Scuba Devils said:


> I've been curious about Shozy Gold but no impressions out there yet.


During the recent Linsoul Spring sale I ordered the Shozy SG, so I was expecting this:





Instead I received this:





So you can imagine my surprise and confusion because the Shozy Gold 3.5SE version looks exactly like this. Compare the picture above of the Shozy SG 3.5SE I received and the picture of the Shozy Gold 3.5SE from Penon site below.





 I would say that from outside appearance they look exactly the same. So the question about the shell. The Shozy Gold is supposed to have a metal shell, well guess what the Shozy buds I received also have a metal shell. The only thing that I found which is different is that I only received one set of installed donut foams, whereas the Gold comes with several sets of both donut and full foams. The storage case is the same for both Gold and SG.

The SG come with thick donut foams installed, the sound was very bass heavy, the midrange and treble were present, but it didn't sound balanced at all. I switched to thinner full foams. The black and white foams you see in my picture above. That single change really helped to balance out the bass, midrange and treble.

Quick compare of Shozy BK vs Shozy SG. The Shozy BK has enough bass presence, but I would say more mid-bass focus, while the midrange and treble shine.
The Shozy SG has solid bass with sub-bass kick. Midrange and treble is good, but sound a little rolled off (but better balanced to the bass with full foams). The bass of the SG definitely adds depth and feeling / impact to the overall sound.

So, what do you think? Did I receive a set of the Shozy Gold, or did I receive a set of the SG? For now I'll just call the ones I received Shozy SG "Gold".


----------



## mochill

mt877 said:


> During the recent Linsoul Spring sale I ordered the Shozy SG, so I was expecting this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like the gold 😯


----------



## cqtek

nymz said:


> *RikuBuds - Berserker 1 and Lancer 1*​
> 
> 
> ​
> ...


Thank you very much for your feedback and congratulations to @RikudouGoku for his adventure.
Since you are talking about cables, a balanced version to move 150 Ohms with dongles using that output would be nice. Besides, balanced sources are almost always better.


----------



## Kento6395

after changing the line  and burn gently for a long time  Today, I would like to give you the nickname Sennheiser Omx 90 that HD800 Jr. It has the aura of HD800 is quite good, both in detail, wide sound stage.  big music piece  Surrounded by Fullsize, but different in the sound scale  This depends on the system used as well.  Mine tried to plug in a big amp that I used with HD800, the sound really came in the same direction ☺️




 P.S. Removing the body to modify must have a certain level of expertise. Because the body can't be drilled or adjusted to increase the size of the strap like general earbuds and most importantly, the driver is easy to break like MX985😄


----------



## Rick1982

@cqtek Have you ever had the chance to listen to LBBs?  I am very tempted by the QJ21 after reading your review and would like to see if it is a real step up from the LBBs that I am very happy with.


----------



## FranQL (Apr 24, 2022)

Kento6395 said:


> after changing the line  and burn gently for a long time  Today, I would like to give you the nickname Sennheiser Omx 90 that HD800 Jr. It has the aura of HD800 is quite good, both in detail, wide sound stage.  big music piece  Surrounded by Fullsize, but different in the sound scale  This depends on the system used as well.  Mine tried to plug in a big amp that I used with HD800, the sound really came in the same direction ☺️
> 
> P.S. Removing the body to modify must have a certain level of expertise. Because the body can't be drilled or adjusted to increase the size of the strap like general earbuds and most importantly, the driver is easy to break like MX985😄



If it sounds like Senn HD800, there is little to modify there....


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Kento6395 said:


> after changing the line  and burn gently for a long time  Today, I would like to give you the nickname Sennheiser Omx 90 that HD800 Jr. It has the aura of HD800 is quite good, both in detail, wide sound stage.  big music piece  Surrounded by Fullsize, but different in the sound scale  This depends on the system used as well.  Mine tried to plug in a big amp that I used with HD800, the sound really came in the same direction ☺️
> 
> P.S. Removing the body to modify must have a certain level of expertise. Because the body can't be drilled or adjusted to increase the size of the strap like general earbuds and most importantly, the driver is easy to break like MX985😄


Wow, what a blast from the past these earbuds are!

*2006 - Sennheiser** MX90VC / **OMX90VC** / LX90 **(64Ω)*



Spoiler: 2006 SENNHEISER MX90VC/OMX90VC/LX90 BROCUHURE


----------



## nymz (Apr 24, 2022)

cqtek said:


> Since you are talking about cables, a balanced version to move 150 Ohms with dongles using that output would be nice. Besides, balanced sources are almost always better.



I concour and being a source piled freak, having a 4.4mm termination to those nasty hard to drive drivers would be a plus. They scale pretty well and love some tubes in the chain as well!


----------



## cqtek

Rick1982 said:


> @cqtek Have you ever had the chance to listen to LBBs?  I am very tempted by the QJ21 after reading your review and would like to see if it is a real step up from the LBBs that I am very happy with.


I have not had the opportunity to test it. But if you want my advice on the QJ21s, I think you should consider the new Rose Martini, I like them better.


----------



## RikudouGoku

cqtek said:


> Thank you very much for your feedback and congratulations to @RikudouGoku for his adventure.
> Since you are talking about cables, a balanced version to move 150 Ohms with dongles using that output would be nice. Besides, balanced sources are almost always better.


I havent found any semi-finished cables in balanced config, so its unlikely. Unless I make the cable from scratch.


----------



## Rick1982

cqtek said:


> I have not had the opportunity to test it. But if you want my advice on the QJ21s, I think you should consider the new Rose Martini, I like them better.


Thanks for the advice, added to my short list.


----------



## cqtek (Apr 24, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> I havent found any semi-finished cables in balanced config, so its unlikely. Unless I make the cable from scratch.


I understand that. It's a pity.
Let's see if someone on the forum can help you in that regard... As long as it is feasible.


----------



## Setmagic

cqtek said:


> I understand that. It's a pity.
> Let's see if someone on the forum can help you in that regard... As long as it is feasible.


@Rary will help


----------



## RikudouGoku

Setmagic said:


> @Rary will help


yeah, he is in my discord server and I greatly appreciate his help.


----------



## assassin10000

RikudouGoku said:


> I havent found any semi-finished cables in balanced config, so its unlikely. Unless I make the cable from scratch.



Message xinhs about a short run of cables maybe?


----------



## KutuzovGambit (Apr 25, 2022)

Status update: Penon PAC earbuds continue to sound very good, IMO they are the HD600 to the ISN Rambo II's HD650, with much better fit for me.

Meanwhile the Smabat M Pro (not seen discussed here yet) is a brightish V-shape with excellent transients and pretty good details. The soundstage is very wide but not a lot of height or depth so layering and separation suffer. Lateral imaging is very good though. As a mids lover I have a hard time getting excited about them when the PAC earbuds are much closer to my target response, but I'm trying to give them a chance.


----------



## pagodeiro

KutuzovGambit said:


> Status update: Penon PAC earbuds continue to sound very good, IMO they are the HD600 to the ISN Rambo II's HD650, with much better fit for me.
> 
> Meanwhile the Smabat M Pro (not seen discussed here yet) is a brightish V-shape with excellent transients and pretty good details. The soundstage is very wide but not a lot of height or depth so layering and separation suffer. Lateral imaging is very good though. As a mids lover I have a hard time getting excited about them when the PAC earbuds are much closer to my target response, but I'm trying to give them a chance.


Hi,

I'm looking at both of them.
How would you compare them to LBBs, for example?

Thanks


----------



## KutuzovGambit (Apr 26, 2022)

pagodeiro said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm looking at both of them.
> How would you compare them to LBBs, for example?
> ...


PAC is definitely closer to LBBs, but maybe slightly U-shaped versus the bright-neutral LBBs. LBBs might win on technicalities but not by much I think. Whereas the M Pro is fairly V-shaped and while resolution is right up there with the LBBs, technicalities as a whole are worse than the other two (lack of stage height and depth collapses the soundfield dimensionality, leading to unimpressive layering and separation).

Also LBBs is the only one of the three with a fixed cable. But the PAC needs a separate cable, doesn't come with one.


----------



## pagodeiro

Thanks, that helps me a lot.
It sounds like both are worth a try.
You are still waiting on M3 Pro, right?


----------



## KutuzovGambit

pagodeiro said:


> Thanks, that helps me a lot.
> It sounds like both are worth a try.
> You are still waiting on M3 Pro, right?


Yeah I received a dead right unit so they are sending a replacement.


----------



## mbwilson111

I can't find the post that describes all the different shells.  Does anyone have the link?


----------



## RikudouGoku

mbwilson111 said:


> I can't find the post that describes all the different shells.  Does anyone have the link?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3418#post-16078122


Most of the links are found in this post: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3206#post-15645663


----------



## BCool

KutuzovGambit said:


> Yeah I received a dead right unit so they are sending a replacement.


I'd be interested in hearing your impressions! Not much info on the M3 Pro but they look like a tempting set


----------



## KutuzovGambit

BCool said:


> I'd be interested in hearing your impressions! Not much info on the M3 Pro but they look like a tempting set


Will definitely post impressions when I get them and a full review eventually.


----------



## baskingshark

mbwilson111 said:


> I can't find the post that describes all the different shells.  Does anyone have the link?



Welcome back!!!

What are your go to earbuds nowadays?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 28, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> Welcome back!!!
> 
> What are your go to earbuds nowadays?


I have never been gone but only semi active in one thread.  Effects of Covid will probably never go away.   Still have pain in left ear so it has been speakers and headphones.  I want to get back to buds.  IEMS not so much .Just trying to cope day by day.

When I do get back to buds it will mostly be the ones my husband @HungryPanda made for me,  plus  the Turandot and a special bud that a special person made for me.


----------



## syazwaned

M2s Pro + 150 ohms driver.


Less thicker than Super One Driver. I found it is more neutral, nearing Chaconne level of neutral-ness. No rumbling bass though. Female vocal, treble layering is better and clearer.


----------



## syazwaned

M2s Pro + 150 ohms driver.


Less thicker than Super One Driver. I found it is more neutral, nearing Chaconne level of neutral-ness. No rumbling bass though. Female vocal, treble layering is better and clearer.


----------



## ValSuki

Hey yall, new VE earbuds!
Literally just released a new series called the Vita's a few hours ago. Very lovely looking cables but a bit of a steep price!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

ValSuki said:


> Hey yall, new VE earbuds!
> Literally just released a new series called the Vita's a few hours ago. Very lovely looking cables but a bit of a steep price!


Any impedance ratings for these yet?


----------



## jeejack

WoodyLuvr said:


> Any impedance ratings for these yet?


VE Monk Pro Vita - 32 ohm LCP


----------



## mochill

Newbsound earbuds including the next flagship , the 32x 😁


----------



## WoodyLuvr

mochill said:


> Newbsound earbuds including the next flagship , the 32x 😁


What is the full name of this new flagship model? I will add to the timeline.


----------



## shenshen

WoodyLuvr said:


> What is the full name of this new flagship model? I will add to the timeline.


Newbsound 32x


----------



## RikudouGoku

New **** bud and they went waifu along with pretty unique colors.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004148598977.html


----------



## mochill

WoodyLuvr said:


> What is the full name of this new flagship model? I will add to the timeline.


Newbsound 32X


----------



## Rick1982

RikudouGoku said:


> New **** bud and they went waifu along with pretty unique colors.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004148598977.html


aesthetically they look a lot like the Fiio EM5, who knows how they sound. There is practically nothing around even on the previous model PT2021


----------



## WoodyLuvr

shenshen said:


> Newbsound 32x





mochill said:


> Newbsound 32X


Added! Thank you.


----------



## Setmagic (Apr 29, 2022)

Today I have some time to listen DIY Buds by @FranQL who send me his favourite everyday carry "Hi-End flagships" - I don't think true craftmens use this world's  but they are everything i like.

Fran put so much love and care to composition of the sound and they are not only best buds I ever heard but also one of the most pleasing headphones.
They open my mind to how buds can sing.

I see and hear that practice.
This one who is driven to make it for himself, family and friends, become a master.

They are made of wood, metal, cooper, mx pearl shells and excellent quality cables.
I'm quite serious about quality of pictures as a photographer and I need to take my time with them 🤠 and post it later.

Membrane and coil inductance dosent matter, important is a secret of the tune.

I'm honoured to have it and happy about it that they stay with me.


----------



## pr0b3r

mochill said:


> Newbsound earbuds including the next flagship , the 32x 😁



Looking forward to seeing your review (with comparison to 32pro), @mochill. Thanks!


----------



## KutuzovGambit

My review of the Smabat M Pro is now live: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-m-pro.25820/reviews#review-28415


----------



## 4ceratops

I would like to thank RikudouGoku very much for his outreach in the vast realm of cheap earbuds. Thanks to his list, I got the Yincrow X6, which in my opinion absolutely deny the connection between sound quality and price. Unfortunately today, after about a month of using them, I got them caught on the door and ripped one earbud off. About 5 minutes later I was ordering 3 pieces, white, red and black, which immediately calmed me down😋


----------



## KutuzovGambit

4ceratops said:


> I would like to thank RikudouGoku very much for his outreach in the vast realm of cheap earbuds. Thanks to his list, I got the Yincrow X6, which in my opinion absolutely deny the connection between sound quality and price. Unfortunately today, after about a month of using them, I got them caught on the door and ripped one earbud off. About 5 minutes later I was ordering 3 pieces, white, red and black, which immediately calmed me down😋


I'm chilling over here with 5 pairs of the Qian39


----------



## 4ceratops

KutuzovGambit said:


> I'm chilling over here with 5 pairs of the Qian39


I couldn't resist, the first pair is ordered 😉


----------



## RikudouGoku (Apr 29, 2022)

KutuzovGambit said:


> I'm chilling over here with 5 pairs of the Qian39


In that case, you might want to try this mod.

Take a piece of micropore tape and tape the vent on one side of the shell.





Specifically, on the L shell, tape the left side vents and on the R shell, tape the right side vents.

This is the result of that
micropore taped "outside" vent:
+ more textured-bass
+ tech boost (resolution, separation)
- reduced mid-bass and sub-bass




Or if you tape the vents on the other side, you get this.
micropore taped "inside" vent:
+more sub-bass
+tech boost (resolution, separation)
+ cleaner
- smaller stage
- less air


I prefer the first "outside" vent mod.


(taping both sides just makes it sound bloated and honky.)


----------



## KutuzovGambit

RikudouGoku said:


> In that case, you might want to try this mod.
> 
> Take a piece of micropore tape and tape the vent on one side of the shell.
> 
> ...


Woah thanks! Will give it a whirl.


----------



## pr0b3r (Apr 30, 2022)

Penon PAC Earbuds

These earbuds came as one of the freebies from my recent purchase at Penon Audio.

I felt obliged to do a simple write up since I lfelt like these buds don't have the right to sound this good. They're FREEBIES. 😅👏🏼

It is currently listed at $50 on Penon's website but comes free by purchasing some of their products (Penon and ISN cables and IEMs).

PAC Earbuds Specs:
Drivers: 15.4mm PET Composite Titanium Diaphragm
Impedance: 40 Ohm
Sensitivity: 106db
Freq. Response: 20hz-20kHz
Connector: MMCX

Packaging:
The buds only came in a tiny ziplock bag, no cables included. For the sake of this mini review, I made a cable for it. A good but cheap 4-core SPC cable as shown in the photos.

Build/Comfort:
The shells of these buds are made of aluminum, painted with black coating. There are channel markings painted on both sides. Vent holes are also present on each side, near the MMCX ports. The overall build looks sturdy, even the MMCX ports stay in place without any signs of movements. Can't really complain at all, although some users might prefer earbuds with stems.

Sound Impressions:
These earbuds do so many things right, while having very few misses. Sound is complete. I mean I never felt there's something obviously lacking. Reminds me of their well received Penon BS1 earbuds. Great balance between bass, mids, and treble. Though PAC showing signs of maturity when it comes to low end control and some other refinements.

Bass: These are basshead earbuds. Subbass can be felt early on while listening to EDM, RNB, Hip-hop, Trip-hop, Rock, Metal. Subbass depth is still good for some other genres. Midbass is more prominent than sub specially when playing acoustic and vocal rich tracks. Transients are good. Feels good while listening to acoustic jam sessions and pop tracks.

Mids: Lower mids has enough body coming from the upper bass rise. It is not overly thick and no muddiness is present. Note weight is good with a natural presentation. No honkiness or unnatural timbre felt. Though I feel like there's a slight dip before rising slowly to the upper mids and lower treble. There were times when some high-pitched female vocal tracks sounded like they were headed into becoming peaky but gladly, they didn't go there. Mids overall sounded just right, natural, airy, with good weight.

Treble: The rest of the treble from lower to high remained smooth. Metal still sounds okay to me here having enough sparkle and extension as I prefer, but I think some would want more of both for a more bright presentation. That would make it slightly U or V shaped though. Good thing mids and treble compliment each other well in this choice of tuning.

Soundstage/Imaging: The stage felt like having an average width with an intimate presentation. Stage depth compensates greatly for that and helped achieve really nice results in imaging and separation.

My verdict:
I laughed inside when I tried to think of reasons why one should buy these earbuds. Just go get yourself a Penon or ISN IEM/cable and get these buds for free. 😅 There are plenty of reviews and comments available out there about their products. You guys should check them out. You'll then get a really nice earbuds in the PAC.

I can recommend PAC to those looking for a good all-rounder buds that can be used both indoor and outdoor. Not necessarily a basshead buds but I'm certain that PAC buds can do the job. Perfect on the go as they are detachable and can be used with Bluetooth adapters. The resolution and details are really good being just a freebie product on its introduction. Not sure until when this promo will last though. Better grab one while you're at it. 😉


----------



## Charlyro222

Newbsound 32x Just arrived today, tomorrow will test it.


----------



## KutuzovGambit

pr0b3r said:


> Penon PAC Earbuds
> 
> These earbuds came as one of the freebies from my recent purchase at Penon Audio.
> 
> ...


Read this while listening with them in my ears to a lot of acoustic tracks. I agree with almost all your observations, extremely balanced sound with outstanding resolution. Very nice rich timbre too.


----------



## pr0b3r

KutuzovGambit said:


> Read this while listening with them in my ears to a lot of acoustic tracks. I agree with almost all your observations, extremely balanced sound with outstanding resolution. Very nice rich timbre too.



That's great. May I know what other observations you had? I want to know what I got wrong or missed. Thanks.


----------



## KutuzovGambit (Apr 29, 2022)

pr0b3r said:


> That's great. May I know what other observations you had? I want to know what I got wrong or missed. Thanks.


The only area I would maybe part ways with you a bit is regarding the bass and by extension overall signature; to me it’s not so much U or V shaped as neutral with a mild bass boost, mainly in the mid-bass as you noted but I get the feeling you are hearing more of an emphasis there than I did (since you described them as a basshead bud). You may be right about a slight recession before the upper mids but I hadn’t noticed it myself, I’ll have to go back and pay some more attention there. Treble is quite neutral to me with fairly good extension until it rolls off in the very upper regions. Just nitpicking here really, like I said I generally thought your impressions were spot on! Especially regarding the average stage width but excellent depth leading to intimacy but with room to work, nail on the head there.


----------



## pr0b3r

KutuzovGambit said:


> The only area I would maybe part ways with you a bit is regarding the bass and by extension overall signature; to me it’s not so much U or V shaped as neutral with a mild bass boost, mainly in the mid-bass as you noted but I get the feeling you are hearing more of an emphasis there than I did (since you described them as a basshead bud). You may be right about a slight recession before the upper mids but I hadn’t noticed it myself, I’ll have to go back and pay some more attention there. Treble is quite neutral to me with fairly good extension until it rolls off in the very upper regions. Just nitpicking here really, like I said I generally thought your impressions were spot on! Especially regarding the average stage width but excellent depth leading to intimacy but with room to work, nail on the head there.



Thanks for pointing those out. I was actually pertaining to a U or V shaped tuning if the rest of the treble were brighter as they are, but they're not. So no U or V shape sound, gladly. The smoothness of the upper end is great. Yes, PAC buds lean quite a bit on the warm tonality but not entirely since the treble remains quite balanced across many genres I tested. I didn't feel any obvious lack in that particular area. So, we agree there that the overall balance is good. Penon did a great job crafting this unassuming buds.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 30, 2022)

KutuzovGambit said:


> The only area I would maybe part ways with you a bit is regarding the bass and by extension overall signature; to me it’s not so much U or V shaped as neutral with a mild bass boost, mainly in the mid-bass as you noted but I get the feeling you are hearing more of an emphasis there than I did (since you described them as a basshead bud). You may be right about a slight recession before the upper mids but I hadn’t noticed it myself, I’ll have to go back and pay some more attention there. Treble is quite neutral to me with fairly good extension until it rolls off in the very upper regions. Just nitpicking here really, like I said I generally thought your impressions were spot on! Especially regarding the average stage width but excellent depth leading to intimacy but with room to work, nail on the head there.





pr0b3r said:


> Thanks for pointing those out. I was actually pertaining to a U or V shaped tuning if the rest of the treble were brighter as they are, but they're not. So no U or V shape sound, gladly. The smoothness of the upper end is great. Yes, PAC buds lean quite a bit on the warm tonality but not entirely since the treble remains quite balanced across many genres I tested. I didn't feel any obvious lack in that particular area. So, we agree there that the overall balance is good. Penon did a great job crafting this unassuming buds.


This is exactly why "*W-Shape*" needs to be used more often when it comes to describing the *primary and/or secondary sound signatures* of open-air earbuds which are more often than not *mid-centric tuned* in some manner... whether it be in the higher bass, midrange, and/or lower treble areas (more *here*).


----------



## pr0b3r

WoodyLuvr said:


> This is exactly why "*W-Shape*" needs to be used more often when it comes to describing the *primary and/or secondary sound signatures* of open-air earbuds which are more often than not *mid-centric tuned* in some manner... whether it be in the higher bass, midrange, and/or lower treble areas (more *here*).



I also use the term W-shaped, but in the case of the PAC buds, I'm a little hesitant to say so because the mids aren't lifted enough to call it W. This may be according to my preference only and others may hear differently. I will probably accept if someone points out that they are almost L-shaped.

Thanks for the reminder on this.


----------



## rprodrigues

Folks,

Is there a known direct upgrade from Moondrop Nameless below $100?


----------



## ValSuki

rprodrigues said:


> Folks,
> 
> Is there a known direct upgrade from Moondrop Nameless below $100?


Thats a bit of a tough one! Because the Nameless isnt an earbud that I can recall was well favoured in the earbud community. All I can really think of is the typical earbuds that people would suggest that is priced among that region, like a Yincrow x6 or Qian39. Different shells, but should ultimately sound pleasing and will not break your bank!


----------



## pagodeiro

KutuzovGambit said:


> My review of the Smabat M Pro is now live: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-m-pro.25820/reviews#review-28415


Thanks for the review. 

I stayed with a doubt. 
Are you sure that it doesn't have interchangeable drivers? It's announcement says it does.


----------



## KutuzovGambit

pagodeiro said:


> Thanks for the review.
> 
> I stayed with a doubt.
> Are you sure that it doesn't have interchangeable drivers? It's announcement says it does.


There was a lot of contradictory documentation at the beginning. They seem to be cleaning it up, I did reach out and received confirmation there are not interchangeable drivers on this model.


----------



## BCool

Does anyone use silicone tips on their buds? Something like these? Interested if they change the sound/fit at all as they would seem more durable than the flimsy foams covers that usually get supplied.


----------



## pagodeiro

KutuzovGambit said:


> There was a lot of contradictory documentation at the beginning. They seem to be cleaning it up, I did reach out and received confirmation there are not interchangeable drivers on this model.


Thanks for the clarification.
I hope they improve the communication. 
The differences between M Youth and M Pro are also not clear enough.


----------



## KutuzovGambit

pagodeiro said:


> Thanks for the clarification.
> I hope they improve the communication.
> The differences between M Youth and M Pro are also not clear enough.


The only difference is the driver used.


----------



## Yurikka (May 1, 2022)




----------



## pagodeiro

KutuzovGambit said:


> The only difference is the driver used.


M Youth has fixed cable too


----------



## jeejack

KutuzovGambit said:


> The only difference is the driver used.


And shells 😉


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 1, 2022)

BCool said:


> Does anyone use silicone tips on their buds? Something like these? Interested if they change the sound/fit at all as they would seem more durable than the flimsy foams covers that usually get supplied.


Depending on the earbud's shell & faceplate design and more so an individual's ear shape... *silicon rings* can/may improve the "_seal_" which in-turn can/may improve bass response (depth and details), as well as improve imaging and detail retrieval which in-turn may improve the timbre. But rarely remarkably so... though stellar improvement can happen sometimes. Using a *ring* or a wide-gauged *donut foam cushion*, of any material type, simply reverts that particular earbud back to it's original "base tuning" aka "nude" state... which please carefully note: you may or may not like. These *silicon rings* can be quite helpful in correcting an "ill-fitting" earbud that is too loose in one's ear. And then sometimes we will apply a *full/donut foam cushion* right over that (on top of that). Do note that many flathead fanatics find *silicon rings* uncomfortable, especially for prolonged listening sessions, and thus why* foam donuts* of various gauges (hole diameters) are sometimes preferred instead.

You may find this *post* helpful.


----------



## KutuzovGambit

jeejack said:


> And shells 😉


Really? I could have sworn the literature I read said they were identical except for drivers. My bad.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 1, 2022)

Is it me or have the *wireless bluetooth earphone brands* significantly turned-up (doubled) their efforts to completely hijack/kidnap the "_earbuds_" moniker for themselves?! _Wireless Earbuds_?! Aghast... no they ain't! Sony appears to be one of the guiltiest of committing this heinous act which is too bad as they were an early producer of the flathead earbud! Nonetheless Sony deserves to have both it's legs broken with metal baseball bats! I wish manufacturers had gone with _wireless IEMs_ or better yet _wireless ear receivers (earphones) _and kindly left the earbud name to the original and almighty flathead!


----------



## baskingshark

WoodyLuvr said:


> Is it me or have the *wireless bluetooth earphone brands* significantly turned-up (doubled) their efforts to hijack/kidnap the "_earbuds_" moniker for themselves?! _Wireless Earbuds_?! Aghast... no they ain't! Sony appears to be one of the guiltiest of committing this heinous act which is too bad as they were an early producer of the flathead earbud. Still Sony deserves to have it's legs broken with metal baseball bats! I wish manufacturers had gone with _wireless IEMs_ or better yet _wireless ear receivers (earphones) _and kindly left the earbud name to the original and almighty flathead!



Actually I have seen quite a lot of manufacturers use the term "earbuds" loosely as an umbrella term to include IEMs, true flathead earbuds, etc inside. Well perhaps the IT guy in charge of making their website/marketing is not a true audiophile haha.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 1, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> Actually I have seen quite a lot of manufacturers use the term "earbuds" loosely as an umbrella term to include IEMs, true flathead earbuds, etc inside. Well perhaps the IT guy in charge of making their website/marketing is not a true audiophile haha.


Concur... indeed, when it should be "earphones" aka "ear receivers". I guess at some point it will become so confusing that we will be forced to use "*flathead*" instead for clarity's sake.


----------



## rkw

WoodyLuvr said:


> Is it me or have the *wireless bluetooth earphone brands* significantly turned-up (doubled) their efforts to completely hijack/kidnap the "_earbuds_" moniker for themselves?!


Yes, it's just you. Or us in this thread.  For everybody else in the world, if you stick it into your ears, it's an "earbud".


----------



## mt877

WoodyLuvr said:


> Sony appears to be one of the guiltiest of committing this heinous act which is too bad as they were an early producer of the flathead earbud! Nonetheless Sony deserves to have both it's legs broken with metal baseball bats!


How could you hurt Walkman? Just too cool for broken kneecaps.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

mt877 said:


> How could you hurt Walkman? Just too cool for broken kneecaps.


Them be the legs! Swing away!


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Is it me or have the *wireless bluetooth earphone brands* significantly turned-up (doubled) their efforts to completely hijack/kidnap the "_earbuds_" moniker for themselves?! _Wireless Earbuds_?! Aghast... no they ain't! Sony appears to be one of the guiltiest of committing this heinous act which is too bad as they were an early producer of the flathead earbud! Nonetheless Sony deserves to have both it's legs broken with metal baseball bats! I wish manufacturers had gone with _wireless IEMs_ or better yet _wireless ear receivers (earphones) _and kindly left the earbud name to the original and almighty flathead!


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 1, 2022)

It has been over two years since I lost my husband @HungryPanda to Covid.  Newer members probably don't know who he was unless they have read older posts.  So much good information in those posts  and I remember times that we were all really enjoying the comraderie.   After Tom died @ClieOS edited the first post to dedicate this thread to him.   That meant a lot to me.  I hope he is never forgotten.

My life has been a struggle without him but I am finally starting to sort his gear.  I have begun with the headphones and will move on with the IEMS.   The buds will be the most difficult because in the end those were what we cared about the most.  So many memories.  Many are the ones he made for us.  He never sold any and never wanted to.  It was a hobby.  He did give a few away as gifts.  There are unfinished ones..ones where we had already chosen the shell, cable, and drivers.  Tuning would have happened during the process based on listening.  We had already named a couple of them...one is even in my list but does not exist. 

Anyway, I will post a picture of what must have been one of his more recent purchases at rhe time.  It was not in a labelled case (almost all are).  Does anyone recognize it?


----------



## rprodrigues (May 1, 2022)

ValSuki said:


> Thats a bit of a tough one! Because the Nameless isnt an earbud that I can recall was well favoured in the earbud community. All I can really think of is the typical earbuds that people would suggest that is priced among that region, like a Yincrow x6 or Qian39. Different shells, but should ultimately sound pleasing and will not break your bank!



Thank you for the suggestions, dude!

I already own both x6 and Q39. Unfortunately, its strenghs are towards other directions than Nameless'.

For me, Nameless sound more as monitors with an overall bright signature. They have a kind of a fragile sound which matches pretty well with acoustic female tracks. Bass is notably rolled-off at the point they may sound bad to those who like a juicier sound. Btw, this is exaclty one of the things I would like to update on them. Just a tad of more bass would result in a fuller presentantion.  I also would like a bit of more treble to get some sparkle as well.

Below/close to $100 tag, I already have lbbs, RW2000, and pt2021. EBX is still on its way.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


>


*Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
https://c.tenor.com/UbgP_VN5GX0AAAAM/noooo-star-wars.gif*


----------



## RikudouGoku

mbwilson111 said:


> It has been over two years since I lost my husband @HungryPanda to Covid.  Newer members probably don't know who he was unless they have read older posts.  So much good information in those posts  and I remember times that we were all really enjoying the comraderie.   After Tom died @ClieOS edited the first post to dedicate this thread to him.   That meant a lot to me.  I hope he is never forgotten.
> 
> My life has been a struggle without him but I am finally starting to sort his gear.  I have begun with the headphones and will move on with the IEMS.   The buds will be the most difficult because in the end those were what we cared about the most.  So many memories.  Many are the ones he made for us.  He never sold any and never wanted to.  It was a hobby.  He did give a few away as gifts.  There are unfinished ones..ones where we had already chosen the shell, cable, and drivers.  Tuning would have happened during the process based on listening.  We had already named a couple of them...one is even in my list but does not exist.
> 
> Anyway, I will post a picture of what must have been one of his more recent purchases at rhe time.  It was not in a labelled case (almost all are).  Does anyone recognize it?


Looks like the S E N F E R KP120

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003404023000.html


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
> https://c.tenor.com/UbgP_VN5GX0AAAAM/noooo-star-wars.gif*


Also, making it even worse is that in Swedish, the terms headphones and earphones are the DAMN SAME!!!  (Hörlurar)

So here, if you say "hörlurar", you can refer to the actual headphones, iems or earbuds.....


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 1, 2022)

rprodrigues said:


> Thank you for the suggestions, dude!
> 
> I already own both x6 and Q39. Unfortunately, its strenghs are towards other directions than Nameless'.
> 
> ...


*@rprodrigues* You seek Pislo by ArtVano... the house tuning leans hard to *Asian Female Poison* so quite excellent for female vocals probably even better than Rose Technics Maria I & II or DQSM Audio Turnadot. The following three Pislo models are all under USD$65 and available from Pislo's official store on Taobao (very reliable to order from) which I have linked for each model for your kind reference:

*2018 - PISLO P7 Flathead (31Ω @ 108dB; "Domestic-China" Version)*​*2018 - PISLO PX (31Ω @ 115dB; Int'l "Standard" Version)*​*2020 - PISLO 焱 Yan Black Flame Edition (31Ω @ 106dB)*​
I found that the Yan Black Flame Edition fell just between the P7 and PX... a tad to the left so a bit warmer and thus slightly bassier.



Spoiler: Pislo by ArtVano Model Plots on Sound Signature Chart


----------



## FranQL

WoodyLuvr said:


> You seek Pislo by ArtVano... the house tuning leans hard to *Asian Female Poison* so quite excellent for female vocals probably even better than Rose Technics Maria I & II or DQSM Audio Turnadot. The following three Pislo models are all under USD$65 and available from Pislo's official store on Taobao (very reliable to order from) which I have linked for each model for your kind reference:
> 
> *2018 - PISLO P7 Flathead (31Ω @ 108dB; "Domestic-China" Version)*​*2018 - PISLO PX (31Ω @ 115dB; Int'l "Standard" Version)*​*2020 - PISLO 焱 Yan Black Flame Edition (31Ω @ 106dB)*​
> I found that the Yan Black Flame Edition fell just between the P7 and PX a tad to the left so a bit warmer and thus slightly bassier.
> ...




what a beautiful thing, a work of art


----------



## WoodyLuvr

mbwilson111 said:


> It has been over two years since I lost my husband @HungryPanda to Covid.  Newer members probably don't know who he was unless they have read older posts.  So much good information in those posts  and I remember times that we were all really enjoying the comraderie.   After Tom died @ClieOS edited the first post to dedicate this thread to him.   That meant a lot to me.  I hope he is never forgotten.
> 
> My life has been a struggle without him but I am finally starting to sort his gear.  I have begun with the headphones and will move on with the IEMS.   The buds will be the most difficult because in the end those were what we cared about the most.  So many memories.  Many are the ones he made for us.  He never sold any and never wanted to.  It was a hobby.  He did give a few away as gifts.  There are unfinished ones..ones where we had already chosen the shell, cable, and drivers.  Tuning would have happened during the process based on listening.  We had already named a couple of them...one is even in my list but does not exist.
> 
> Anyway, I will post a picture of what must have been one of his more recent purchases at rhe time.  It was not in a labelled case (almost all are).  Does anyone recognize it?





RikudouGoku said:


> Looks like the S E N F E R KP120
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003404023000.html


Concur that is the KP120!

*2019 - ••••••• KP120 (32Ω; MMCX)*


----------



## rprodrigues (May 1, 2022)

@WoodyLuvr

I will take a look at them.

Thank you very much!


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur that is the KP120!
> 
> *2019 - ••••••• KP120 (32Ω; MMCX)*


Yup they are KP120, cheaper version of Pizen KP110, one of the first DLC earbuds.
I remember talking to @HungryPanda about KP110, which was around $70 at that time, and he said that they are really great for this price.
KP120 are good for less than $20


----------



## WoodyLuvr

furyossa said:


> Yup they are KP120, cheaper version of Pizen KP110, one of the first DLC earbuds.
> I remember talking to @HungryPanda about KP110, which was around $70 at that time, and he said that they are really great for this price.
> KP120 are good for less than $20


If I am not mistaken I believe there is some sort of relationship between *Pizen* and *•••••••*. Either they collaborate with one another or they are one-in-the-same (owned by the same parent).


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> If I am not mistaken I believe there is some sort of relationship between *Pizen* and *•••••••*. Either they collaborate with one another or they are one-in-the-same (owned by the same parent).


I think it's 2nd


----------



## Setmagic

furyossa said:


> I think it's 2nd


Sen fer is banned on HF?


----------



## mbwilson111

Setmagic said:


> Sen fer is banned on HF?


Shhhhhhh.....


----------



## Narayan23

mbwilson111 said:


> Shhhhhhh.....




So good to see you posting here again, don´t be a stranger and drop by every now and then, we care about you here.


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 1, 2022)

furyossa said:


> cheaper version of Pizen KP110, one of the first DLC earbuds.
> I remember talking to @HungryPanda about KP110, which was around $70 at that time, and he said that they are really great for this price.



Well now I had to go upstairs to find those.  Disapointed to find he has a cable on them that goes over ear.  Not sure if I can find a spare mmcx cable without the shaping for over ear.  Found a couple of nice 2 pin ones because of all the iems . Very few buds use 2 pin.  My Rose Masya does.

Most of his buds are in this huge case




I put his  builds  and mods in a dresser drawer.  The clothes are mostly gone now.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

mbwilson111 said:


> Well now I had to go upstairs to find those.  Disapointed to find he has a cable on them that goes over ear.  Not sure if I can find a spare mmcx cable without the shaping for over ear.  Found a couple of nice 2 pin ones because of all the items. Very few buds use 2 pin.  My Rose Masya does.
> 
> Most of his buds are in this huge case
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing... a lot of good memories there in those drawers.


----------



## RikudouGoku

mbwilson111 said:


> Well now I had to go upstairs to find those. Disapointed to find he has a cable on them that goes over ear. Not sure if I can find a spare mmcx cable without the shaping for over ear. Found a couple of nice 2 pin ones because of all the items. Very few buds use 2 pin. My Rose Masya does.


If you need cables without ear hooks, you can take a look at XINHS cables. 
https://xinhs.aliexpress.com/store/910746107

They are an OEM, so you can ask them to remove the ear hooks for you.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> If you need cables without ear hooks, you can take a look at XINHS cables.
> https://xinhs.aliexpress.com/store/910746107
> 
> They are an OEM, so you can ask them to remove the ear hooks for you.


I also highly recommend XINHS. Great, fast service. Easy to communicate with. Excellent build quality. I own three (3) different cables made by them and just ordered a fourth.


----------



## mbwilson111

WoodyLuvr said:


> I also highly recommend XINHS. Great, fast service. Easy to communicate with. Excellent build quality. I own three (3) different cables made by them and just ordered a fourth.


I need it tonight!  I don't think I have an aliexpress account anymore and don't really want to deal with it.  Tempted to remove a cable from another bud but those tiny connecters scare me.  Tom always did that.



Narayan23 said:


> So good to see you posting here again, don´t be a stranger and drop by every now and then, we care about you here.


I will probably need some help in here when it comes time   to sell or gift some of this stuff. I will probably have questions.  I do have some help right now with the headphones.  They take up more room than the iems or buds.


----------



## RikudouGoku

mbwilson111 said:


> I need it tonight! I don't think I have an aliexpress account anymore and don't really want to deal with it. Tempted to remove a cable from another bud but those tiny connecters scare me. Tom always did that.


It is recommended that you use a tool like to this to remove mmcx cables. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002508282482.html


----------



## FranQL

mbwilson111 said:


> I need it tonight!  I don't think I have an aliexpress account anymore and don't really want to deal with it.  Tempted to remove a cable from another bud but those tiny connecters scare me.  Tom always did that.



another option is to remove the plastic made from any other mmcx cable, I'm sure you will have millions, if you need help I can explain it to you, it's really simple


----------



## KutuzovGambit

pr0b3r said:


> Thanks for pointing those out. I was actually pertaining to a U or V shaped tuning if the rest of the treble were brighter as they are, but they're not. So no U or V shape sound, gladly. The smoothness of the upper end is great. Yes, PAC buds lean quite a bit on the warm tonality but not entirely since the treble remains quite balanced across many genres I tested. I didn't feel any obvious lack in that particular area. So, we agree there that the overall balance is good. Penon did a great job crafting this unassuming buds.


Ah yes, looking back over it I see I did misread you, my apologies! Yeah I think we're basically on the same page. I'm continuing to really enjoy them.


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Depending on the earbud's shell & faceplate design and more so an individual's ear shape... *silicon rings* can/may improve the "_seal_" which in-turn can/may improve bass response (depth and details), as well as improve imaging and detail retrieval which in-turn may improve the timbre. But rarely remarkably so... though stellar improvement can happen sometimes. Using a *ring* or a wide-gauged *donut foam cushion*, of any material type, simply reverts that particular earbud back to it's original "base tuning" aka "nude" state... which please carefully note: you may or may not like. These *silicon rings* can be quite helpful in correcting an "ill-fitting" earbud that is too loose in one's ear. And then sometimes we will apply a *full/donut foam cushion* right over that (on top of that). Do note that many flathead fanatics find *silicon rings* uncomfortable, especially for prolonged listening sessions, and thus why* foam donuts* of various gauges (hole diameters) are sometimes preferred instead.
> 
> You may find this *post* helpful.


I even tried full foams with this silicone ring over them once. While they did seal better, you are right in that they became uncomfortable quickly:


Spoiler












WoodyLuvr said:


> Is it me or have the *wireless bluetooth earphone brands* significantly turned-up (doubled) their efforts to completely hijack/kidnap the "_earbuds_" moniker for themselves?! _Wireless Earbuds_?! Aghast... no they ain't! Sony appears to be one of the guiltiest of committing this heinous act which is too bad as they were an early producer of the flathead earbud! Nonetheless Sony deserves to have both it's legs broken with metal baseball bats! I wish manufacturers had gone with _wireless IEMs_ or better yet _wireless ear receivers (earphones) _and kindly left the earbud name to the original and almighty flathead!





WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur... indeed, when it should be "earphones" aka "ear receivers". I guess at some point it will become so confusing that we will be forced to use "*flathead*" instead for clarity's sake.


This has been going on for some time now. I have this debate about once /month or so over on the TWS thread. Here in the US it has become all but impossible to find flatheads doing a google search because EVERY result is about TWS (90%) or IEMs (10%). 


mbwilson111 said:


> I need it tonight! I don't think I have an aliexpress account anymore and don't really want to deal with it. Tempted to remove a cable from another bud but those tiny connecters scare me. Tom always did that.


You could try using your fingernail on your thumb. Place it in between the connector and earbuds, then push in and up (away from the bud), and it should come free pretty easily without fear of damaging the wires, or the connection.


----------



## Yurikka

hello guys. is there any earbuds under 100 dollars that can be better than (or close to) shozy bk stardust with the same mid centric sound signature ? thank you


----------



## baskingshark (May 2, 2022)

New earbuds from NiceHCK to be released soon. Seems their new modus operandi is to follow Tanchjim and Moondrop in putting anime waifuus on the packaging!

Seems you can select 4.4 mm termination?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

baskingshark said:


> New earbuds from NiceHCK to be released soon. Seems their new modus operandi is to follow Tanchjim and Moondrop in putting anime waifuus on the packaging!
> 
> Seems you can select 4.4 mm termination?


Thanks for sharing! Was there any impedance information with the announcement?


----------



## baskingshark

WoodyLuvr said:


> Thanks for sharing! Was there any impedance information with the announcement?



Not much other info yet boss. The specs are something I am interested to know too, since the 14.8 mm driver + 4.4 mm connectors may hint that they potentially may be a beast to drive.

China is having a major public holiday these few days, I think we will find out more once they return from work!


----------



## ClieOS

Just dropping by to say hi to Mary @mbwilson111


----------



## harishl20

baskingshark said:


> Not much other info yet boss. The specs are something I am interested to know too, since the 14.8 mm driver + 4.4 mm connectors may hint that they potentially may be a beast to drive.
> 
> China is having a major public holiday these few days, I think we will find out more once they return from work!


By searching the text on the pic, was able to find this. It is 16ohm driver and someone already has a initial impression of it from review unit I guess, below is link. 
Please translate to preferred language, it is in Chinese.
From what I read on the post, it'll go on sale on 6th may after their holiday.

Impressions

Official Post


----------



## WoodyLuvr

harishl20 said:


> By searching the text on the pic, was able to find this. It is 16ohm driver and someone already has a initial impression of it from review unit I guess, below is link.
> Please translate to preferred language, it is in Chinese.
> From what I read on the post, it'll go on sale on 6th may after their holiday.
> 
> ...


You are awesome! I had completely missed this over on erji.net. Many thanks!


----------



## Nxfb (May 2, 2022)

Hi
I'm looking for some earbuds (d'uh) since my last two pairs died ...
I used to have Apple Earbuds, the comfort was top notch and I had a Nice Hck ME80. The sound was very airy and light, I heard details I never heard before which is great. Wide Soundstage too. But the shape was uncomfortable and it wasn't that stable in my ear. Plus it's died rather quickly.

I also had a few IEM's pairs : KZ ate S, KZ ZST and shure se215.

Here is what i'm looking for :

Shape : Earpod like or very small. Not like the bell shaped me80.
Price : 50$ or less.
Cable : Detachable if possible with MMCX connector so I can replace it easily.
Sound : More or less like the one with the earpods. I found the shure one a bit muddy and sparkless and the me 80 were lacking some bass.
Housing : Metal if possible.
Mic : Yes

I want something that I can keep a long time since I'm a student and budget is bit tight.
I'll be listening on iphone 8, laptop and maybe Ipod Classic.

Sen-fer pt25 would have been perfect but it seems that it's not produced anymore sadly.
What about this one ? Or this one ?

I'm open to all the propositions, and i'm looking forward to discuss them and be part of this community.

Thank you


----------



## RikudouGoku

Nxfb said:


> Hi
> I'm looking for some earbuds (d'uh) since my last two pairs died ...
> I used to have Apple Earbuds, the comfort was top notch and I had a Nice Hck ME80. The sound was very airy and light, I heard details I never heard before which is great. Wide Soundstage too. But the shape was uncomfortable and it wasn't that stable in my ear. Plus it's died rather quickly.
> 
> ...


Yincrow RW-100


----------



## Nxfb

RikudouGoku said:


> Yincrow RW-100


Do you there is something similar with detachable cable ?


----------



## Nxfb

Not possible to buy the sen-fer pt25 somewhere ?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Nxfb said:


> Do you there is something similar with detachable cable ?


Havent tried any nor seen any like that. 
That shell is rare enough as it is, so I dont think you can expect to find many (besides DIY) shells like that with a replaceable cable.


----------



## Nxfb

RikudouGoku said:


> Havent tried any nor seen any like that.
> That shell is rare enough as it is, so I dont think you can expect to find many (besides DIY) shells like that with a replaceable cable.


I'm not against so DIY work tbh


----------



## RikudouGoku

Nxfb said:


> I'm not against so DIY work tbh


You could gamble on stuff like this.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003666266629.html


----------



## DBaldock9

Nxfb said:


> Hi
> I'm looking for some earbuds (d'uh) since my last two pairs died ...
> I used to have Apple Earbuds, the comfort was top notch and I had a Nice Hck ME80. The sound was very airy and light, I heard details I never heard before which is great. Wide Soundstage too. But the shape was uncomfortable and it wasn't that stable in my ear. Plus it's died rather quickly.
> 
> ...



I've got a couple of sets of the PT15 (2017), which look a little odd, but fit my ears well.
They appear to still be available - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32951502746.html


----------



## Pancakess

Hello, does anyone have recommendations for a sub $15 earbud with a good mic? my earbud (MB770G/B) is dead. used for calls/meetings. Thanks!


----------



## baskingshark

Pancakess said:


> Hello, does anyone have recommendations for a sub $15 earbud with a good mic? my earbud (MB770G/B) is dead. used for calls/meetings. Thanks!



Hmm if u can maybe top up 5 bucks more, the NiceHCK EB2S and HZSound Bell Rhyme are very good for the coin. They come with mic versions during ordering.


----------



## jogawag

Pancakess said:


> Hello, does anyone have recommendations for a sub $15 earbud with a good mic? my earbud (MB770G/B) is dead. used for calls/meetings. Thanks!


I recommend you the Qian39 with mic is on the page below.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10050


----------



## Pancakess

okay, theres a disc for the NiceHCK w/mic might go with that..👌
Bell Rhyme is a out of budget and Qian39 doesnt come w/Mic (buying locally) sadly, thanks for the recs


----------



## nofarewell

Hey, just one observation to this very informative and awesome list:


WoodyLuvr said:


> Aiwa HP-V88/V99 (16Ω; Super Pow


How come the V88/V99 is not set in bold? Just being curious, some consider them as the best ones ever created.
Cheers


----------



## ValSuki

nofarewell said:


> Hey, just one observation to this very informative and awesome list:
> 
> How come the V88/V99 is not set in bold? Just being curious, some consider them as the best ones ever created.
> Cheers


If you can afford them by selling your kidneys!
Only one ive seen for sale is 2000gbp or 3000usd...yeah


----------



## WoodyLuvr

nofarewell said:


> Hey, just one observation to this very informative and awesome list:
> 
> How come the V88/V99 is not set in bold? Just being curious, some consider them as the best ones ever created.
> Cheers


Good catch there! It should be bolded... on one of the many updates I made I had accidently reformatted and simply missed re-bolding them. Fixed now! Thank you for the correction, very much appreciated. Cheers!


ValSuki said:


> If you can afford them by selling your kidneys!
> Only one ive seen for sale is 2000gbp or 3000usd...yeah


LOL! And a part of one's liver!


----------



## nofarewell

ValSuki said:


> If you can afford them by selling your kidneys!
> Only one ive seen for sale is 2000gbp or 3000usd...yeah


Obviously, but I was not aware price was a factor in any way.


----------



## nofarewell

WoodyLuvr said:


> Good catch there! It should be bolded... on one of the many updates I made I had accidently reformatted and simply missed re-bolding them. Fixed now! Thank you for the correction, very much appreciated. Cheers!
> 
> LOL! And a part of one's liver!


Cool, np  I bought a V741 just recently, being shipped right now. I'd really like to have a V99 with the screw adapter version, but short of donating all my organs, I too, have no idea how to get one.  Do you have most of these though on the list? One of the best lists I have ever seen.


----------



## furyossa

nofarewell said:


> Do you have most of these though on the list? One of the best lists I have ever seen.


This is the “*only*” list.
No one has this much information about earbuds, except Mr Woody


----------



## nofarewell

furyossa said:


> This is the “*only*” list.
> No one has this much information about earbuds, except Mr Woody


I wouldn't say the first I ever saw. But surely the best so far. As an earbud lover myself, I'm amazed.


----------



## nofarewell

And here I ask everyone, if you know any source to get MDR-E484 drivers. I know...but I have a set without drivers and I sometimes ask as hope dies last 😎


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 4, 2022)

nofarewell said:


> Cool, np  I bought a V741 just recently, being shipped right now. I'd really like to have a V99 with the screw adapter version, but short of donating all my organs, I too, have no idea how to get one.  Do you have most of these though on the list? One of the best lists I have ever seen.


Thank you for the kind words. The list has become a group effort most indeed.

No, not now. What I do own now is listed under *CURRENT GEAR* in my signature. I had nearly 300 earbuds to my name until SEP/OCT 2020 when I began to gift, trade, and sell them off along with much of the rest of my audiophile equipment collection in an effort to minimalize. Funny to think that exactly one and half years ago I was sitting on nearly three hundred (300) earbuds; sixty (60) plus IEMS; twenty (20) plus headphones; ten (10) pair of speakers; thirty-six (36) amps and dacs; twenty plus (20+) separate two-channel components; and hundreds and I mean literally hundreds of cables, adapters, & interconnects.

However, back to the topic at hand, I previously did own and/or listen to most of the Golden Age earbuds especially everything made by Sony and Aiwa as I had a relationship (connection) with Sony back then. I have been involved in this hobby for many, many decades and have fortunately owned, auditioned, and/or listened to a lot of amazing gear... transducers especially.


----------



## nofarewell

WoodyLuvr said:


> Thank you for the kind words. The list has become a group effort most indeed.
> 
> No, not now. What I do own now is listed under *CURRENT GEAR* in my signature. I had nearly 300 earbuds to my name until SEP/OCT 2020 when I began to gift, trade, and sell them off along with much of the rest of my audiophile equipment collection in an effort to minimalize. Funny to think that exactly one and half years ago I was sitting on nearly three hundred (300) earbuds; sixty (60) plus IEMS; twenty (20) plus headphones; ten (10) pair of speakers; thirty-six (36) amps and dacs; twenty plus (20+) separate two-channel components; and hundreds and I mean literally hundreds of cables, adapters, & interconnects.
> 
> However, back to the topic at hand, I previously did own and/or listen to most of the Golden Age earbuds especially everything made by Sony and Aiwa as I had a relationship (connection) with Sony back then. I have been involved in this hobby for many, many decades and have fortunately owned, auditioned, and/or listened to a lot of amazing gear... transducers especially.


Aw man...I'm gonna PM you. Must have been a privilege to own all these gems. I have some rare gear of which I'm interested in your opinion.


----------



## waynes world

WoodyLuvr said:


> No, not now. What I do own now is listed under *CURRENT GEAR* in my signature. I had nearly 300 earbuds to my name until SEP/OCT 2020 when I began to gift, trade, and sell them off along with much of the rest of my audiophile equipment collection in an effort to minimalize. Funny to think that exactly one and half years ago I was sitting on nearly three hundred (300) earbuds; sixty (60) plus IEMS; twenty (20) plus headphones; ten (10) pair of speakers; thirty-six (36) amps and dacs; twenty plus (20+) separate two-channel components; and hundreds and I mean literally hundreds of cables, adapters, & interconnects.



Wow. You had a _very_ large herd. You did an amazing job of minimalizing. I now have absolutely no excuse for not being able to do my own minimizing!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

waynes world said:


> Wow. You had a _very_ large herd. You did an amazing job of minimalizing. I now have absolutely no excuse for not being able to do my own minimizing!


It hands down has been the best thing I ever did in the hobby... and that is over many decades! I am/was a minimalist in all other areas of my life but the audiophile bug was very hard to shake so I acquired, acquired, and acquired in a maddening pursuit which would nearly always bring me full circle back to where I started from!
🤦‍♂️


----------



## Ronion

mbwilson111 said:


> Well now I had to go upstairs to find those.  Disapointed to find he has a cable on them that goes over ear.  Not sure if I can find a spare mmcx cable without the shaping for over ear.  Found a couple of nice 2 pin ones because of all the iems . Very few buds use 2 pin.  My Rose Masya does.
> 
> Most of his buds are in this huge case
> 
> ...


----------



## Narayan23

WoodyLuvr said:


> Thank you for the kind words. The list has become a group effort most indeed.
> 
> No, not now. What I do own now is listed under *CURRENT GEAR* in my signature. I had nearly 300 earbuds to my name until SEP/OCT 2020 when I began to gift, trade, and sell them off along with much of the rest of my audiophile equipment collection in an effort to minimalize. Funny to think that exactly one and half years ago I was sitting on nearly three hundred (300) earbuds; sixty (60) plus IEMS; twenty (20) plus headphones; ten (10) pair of speakers; thirty-six (36) amps and dacs; twenty plus (20+) separate two-channel components; and hundreds and I mean literally hundreds of cables, adapters, & interconnects.
> 
> However, back to the topic at hand, I previously did own and/or listen to most of the Golden Age earbuds especially everything made by Sony and Aiwa as I had a relationship (connection) with Sony back then. I have been involved in this hobby for many, many decades and have fortunately owned, auditioned, and/or listened to a lot of amazing gear... transducers especially.


That´s an amazing journey Woody! I would love to read about your top three in every category, I´m sure I´m not alone in thinking we can all learn from your experience.


----------



## cqtek

I asked Justin Miner how to get my hands on the Earbuds Anonymous quite some time ago, when I joined his Facebook group. But I haven't bought them until now. As a reviewer, I even feel a bit ashamed that I've delayed buying them for so long to review them. But, as they say in my country: ""Nunca es tarde, si la dicha es buena".
Now, I am glad to have them at home.
At first I thought that this model would have the classic MX500 capsule shape. But no, it is much better and also the grille is metallic and the cable is improved. I have a lot of earbuds and I think the shape is classic, but unusual. However, I think it is one of the most suitable designs, because of its ergonomics. They are really light and very comfortable. And I love their tuning. Really, they are earbuds for beginners in this world, because they have a good balance in the three bands: the bass is present and they have a good speed. The mids don't suffer from any muddiness and feel present. Even the highs have a good touch, and all this just out of the box! They are sure to improve after a good burning.


----------



## Sam L

4 other people beat me to this one. Wondering if you're all in this thread?


----------



## yaps66

Sam L said:


> 4 other people beat me to this one. Wondering if you're all in this thread?


It looks really nice!

Were you first on the list for the tofino?  Mine is serial 0005.  Am burning it in now but just love the sound!  Jim is a magician!


----------



## Scuba Devils

yaps66 said:


> It looks really nice!
> 
> Were you first on the list for the tofino?  Mine is serial 0005.  Am burning it in now but just love the sound!  Jim is a magician!



I'm Tofino number 2! Fantastic buds.


----------



## Scuba Devils

Does anyone have the Newbsound 32x yet? From Facebook below, sure looks pretty 😍


----------



## Sam L

Scuba Devils said:


> I'm Tofino number 2! Fantastic buds.





yaps66 said:


> It looks really nice!
> 
> Were you first on the list for the tofino?  Mine is serial 0005.  Am burning it in now but just love the sound!  Jim is a magician!


So we have 2 and 5. I'm number 3.


----------



## baskingshark (May 6, 2022)

https://www.facebook.com/tangzuaudio/posts/307098528268699



New earbud from TangZu Audio, the Baijuyi- this company was previously known as TForce Audio, but had to rename themselves due to some copyright lawsuit. TForce had a cult classic IEM, the TForce Yuan Li, and are releasing a new IEM called the Shimin soon.


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> https://www.facebook.com/tangzuaudio/posts/307098528268699
> 
> 
> 
> New earbud from TangZu Audio, the Baijuyi- this company was previously known as TForce Audio, but had to rename themselves due to some copyright lawsuit. TForce had a cult classic IEM, the TForce Yuan Li, and are releasing a new IEM called the Shimin soon.


How very.... Matrix looking.  Seriously though, I like the way they look. Wonder what their specs look like???


----------



## mochill

Scuba Devils said:


> Does anyone have the Newbsound 32x yet? From Facebook below, sure looks pretty 😍


You definitely need it 😁


----------



## jeejack

mochill said:


> You definitely need it 😁


32 ohm ?


----------



## mochill

Yup


----------



## Charlyro222

Scuba Devils said:


> Does anyone have the Newbsound 32x yet? From Facebook below, sure looks pretty 😍


I received 10 days ago but couldn't take a listened for conclusions


----------



## Charlyro222

By the way, I think you didn't notice this little gem that can take my earbuds to another level.


----------



## raymanh

New to earbuds, two questions...

1. What's a good upgrade from the Yincrow X6? I like them but they're ever so slightly too bassy for me. So something with a tiny bit more sparkle (but still good bass) would be great. Also I don't think my ears would fit much bigger buds, so something similar in size.

2. What covers (is that the word?) can I get to make my Yincrows more comfortable? The foam covers they came with are not very dense and quite coarse and itchy. Is there something that like the foam that's used with IEM tips, or like silicone donut covers? Any AliExpress links would be great.

Thanks all!


----------



## 1clearhead

raymanh said:


> New to earbuds, two questions...
> 
> 1. What's a good upgrade from the Yincrow X6? I like them but they're ever so slightly too bassy for me. So something with a tiny bit more sparkle (but still good bass) would be great. Also I don't think my ears would fit much bigger buds, so something similar in size.
> 
> ...


Yincrow RW-9


----------



## feverfive

O.K., I've determined that *for me* the end-all, be-all when it comes to buds is fit.  In my case, the *Qian39* are by far the best fitting buds (if only so-so when it comes to actual audio performance) for my ears.  Are there other buds that fit the same way as the Q39?


----------



## leaky74

cqtek said:


> I asked Justin Miner how to get my hands on the Earbuds Anonymous quite some time ago, when I joined his Facebook group. But I haven't bought them until now. As a reviewer, I even feel a bit ashamed that I've delayed buying them for so long to review them. But, as they say in my country: ""Nunca es tarde, si la dicha es buena".
> Now, I am glad to have them at home.
> At first I thought that this model would have the classic MX500 capsule shape. But no, it is much better and also the grille is metallic and the cable is improved. I have a lot of earbuds and I think the shape is classic, but unusual. However, I think it is one of the most suitable designs, because of its ergonomics. They are really light and very comfortable. And I love their tuning. Really, they are earbuds for beginners in this world, because they have a good balance in the three bands: the bass is present and they have a good speed. The mids don't suffer from any muddiness and feel present. Even the highs have a good touch, and all this just out of the box! They are sure to improve after a good burning.



I took a ‘gamble’ on these after spending years believing that earbuds couldn’t possibly be any good, influenced mainly by the buds that used to come bundled with equipment when I was a kid.

Glad to say these have shot my low expectations out of the water and ignited an interest in this particular rabbit hole!

I have to say; these partner really well with the ifi go blu and are my new dog walking set up!


----------



## Not so fat head

samandhi said:


> How very.... Matrix looking.  Seriously though, I like the way they look. Wonder what their specs look like???


These are really great looking..  If they sound good then they might sell a ton of them..  👍


----------



## shenshen

feverfive said:


> O.K., I've determined that *for me* the end-all, be-all when it comes to buds is fit.  In my case, the *Qian39* are by far the best fitting buds (if only so-so when it comes to actual audio performance) for my ears.  Are there other buds that fit the same way as the Q39?


VE Zen Lite shares the same shell.


----------



## GTAm

Hi guys, 

I am huge newbie in this scene, however I do prefer to listen music trough a pair of nice earbuds!

These are my current ones, in an order of purchase:
1. Yincrow X6
2. Yincrow RW-9
3. Temperament (Ksearphone) Bell-LBs
4. ...?

With each of them I've been more and more happy in terms of the sound. Especially with Bell-LBs, though I would preferer just a tiny bit more bass. 

Do you have any suggestions or recommendations which ones, should I pursue next? 
How big of a difference is around ~$150 compared to ~$300 area? Is it worth it just to skip ~$100 class?

Thank you!


----------



## baskingshark

GTAm said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I am huge newbie in this scene, however I do prefer to listen music trough a pair of nice earbuds!
> 
> ...



Maybe u can check out the Yincrow RW-2000.

As for $150 -> $300, diminishing returns kick in very hard. The best price-to-performance and sweet spot is actually in the sub $50 area, even $150 gear already gets diminishing returns from the budget segment, and you get further diminishing returns going to $300 from there.

Personally, I would perhaps upgrade the source (amp for example) before chasing unicorns in the $300 range, but YMMV.


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> Maybe u can check out the Yincrow RW-2000.
> 
> As for $150 -> $300, diminishing returns kick in very hard. The best price-to-performance and sweet spot is actually in the sub $50 area, even $150 gear already gets diminishing returns from the budget segment, and you get further diminishing returns going to $300 from there.
> 
> Personally, I would perhaps upgrade the source (amp for example) before chasing unicorns in the $300 range, but YMMV.


You can't miss with the RW2000. They seem to be the most well balanced overall of the ones I have heard. The RW3000 are a lot more expensive, and they are better overall, but they aren't tuned that much different than the RW2000 (more clarity, overall improved sound). Point is if you are going with TOTL for buds, the RW2000 is a better price/sound ratio IMO. The diminishing returns hits really hard between the RW2000 and the RW3000. 

 I am a really big fan of the last gen Smabat buds (M2s Pro, ST10S) in the range of $50 to $110(ish). Personally I find the ST10S gold (150Ohm driver) to have more quantity of bass than the others. But I won't discount the M2s Pro (stock) either. They are fantastic! The most similar to those that are budget (to me) are the NiceHCK EBS2. 

I have not heard the ones mentioned, so I can't comment on if there is more quantity of bass with the ones mentioned or not.


----------



## rprodrigues

GTAm said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I am huge newbie in this scene, however I do prefer to listen music trough a pair of nice earbuds!
> 
> ...



As already pointed out by others, RW-2000 is the way to go.


----------



## DBaldock9

samandhi said:


> You can't miss with the RW2000. They seem to be the most well balanced overall of the ones I have heard. The RW3000 are a lot more expensive, and they are better overall, but they aren't tuned that much different than the RW2000 (more clarity, overall improved sound). Point is if you are going with TOTL for buds, the RW2000 is a better price/sound ratio IMO. The diminishing returns hits really hard between the RW2000 and the RW3000.
> 
> I am a really big fan of the last gen Smabat buds (M2s Pro, ST10S) in the range of $50 to $110(ish). Personally I find the ST10S gold (150Ohm driver) to have more quantity of bass than the others. But I won't discount the M2s Pro (stock) either. They are fantastic! The most similar to those that are budget (to me) are the NiceHCK EBS2.
> 
> I have not heard the ones mentioned, so I can't comment on if there is more quantity of bass with the ones mentioned or not.



Have you tried the newest Smabat ST-20?


----------



## Narayan23

Charlyro222 said:


> I received 10 days ago but couldn't take a listened for conclusions


Let us know what you think about them when you get a chance.


----------



## samandhi

DBaldock9 said:


> Have you tried the newest Smabat ST-20?


I have not. From what I have read the new gen Smabat buds are even more boosted in the presence region than the last, and they were borderline too much for me as it was. Have you tried them?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 8, 2022)

Huge update on the *FLATHEAD EARBUD TIMELINE*.  I added another 160 plus earbuds to the timeline... mostly Golden Era models from Sony, Aiwa, Denon, TEAC, etc. Total is now 1,545 earbuds listed.

I also added Rikubuds newest offering the *2022 - RikuBuds Grand Rider 1 (130Ω Bery; Sweden DIY)*


----------



## DBaldock9

samandhi said:


> I have not. From what I have read the new gen Smabat buds are even more boosted in the presence region than the last, and they were borderline too much for me as it was. Have you tried them?



I did take advantage of the Smabat ST-20 pre-order (for $67.13), but I'd probably still buy them at the retail price of $129.00.
The ST-20 doesn't seem to be brighter than the ST-10s, but that could be due to the additional Bass of the ST-20.
I've been enjoying the Svara & Smabat earbuds since 2017, and the ST-20 is probably my favorite overall earbud.


----------



## samandhi

DBaldock9 said:


> I did take advantage of the Smabat ST-20 pre-order (for $67.13), but I'd probably still buy them at the retail price of $129.00.
> The ST-20 doesn't seem to be brighter than the ST-10s, but that could be due to the additional Bass of the ST-20.
> I've been enjoying the Svara & Smabat earbuds since 2017, and the ST-20 is probably my favorite overall earbud.


Interesting to know. Thanks for the information on these!  

Would you say that the ST20 has more quantity of bass even than the ST10S Gold? And if so, would you say it is pretty linear, or is there a mid-bass hump with a recessed sub-bass?


----------



## DBaldock9

samandhi said:


> Interesting to know. Thanks for the information on these!
> 
> Would you say that the ST20 has more quantity of bass even than the ST10S Gold? And if so, would you say it is pretty linear, or is there a mid-bass hump with a recessed sub-bass?



The ST-20 has more low Bass than any of my other earbuds, and I don't think they have a Mid-Bass hump.
The K's K600 (2019) 600-Ω earbuds (no longer available) do seem to have a slightly more realistic sounding Bass and Sound Stage - but I do like the thump from the ST-20.


----------



## baskingshark

So the new NiceHCK B70 has just been released on Aliexpress:

30 bucks. Carbon plated diaphragm, option for balanced or 3.5 mm cables (though not detachable). 

And importantly, it comes with a waifu haha.

Anyone gonna take one for the team?


----------



## Ronion

Earbuds can definitely do bass.  I haven’t built one that can do it like an IEM or the very best cans, but they can do bass and I have proof with some of the buds I shave built.  They can be lean and tight, they can be warm, and they can be typical buds without too much output below 80Hz.  Many well regarded cans are the same like the HD600 series.  Anyway, here are some graphs for proof.


----------



## mochill

baskingshark said:


> So the new NiceHCK B70 has just been released on Aliexpress:
> 
> 30 bucks. Carbon plated diaphragm, option for balanced or 3.5 mm cables (though not detachable).
> 
> ...


I have ordered it


----------



## RockSloth

samandhi said:


> You can't miss with the RW2000. They seem to be the most well balanced overall of the ones I have heard. The RW3000 are a lot more expensive, and they are better overall, but they aren't tuned that much different than the RW2000 (more clarity, overall improved sound). Point is if you are going with TOTL for buds, the RW2000 is a better price/sound ratio IMO. The diminishing returns hits really hard between the RW2000 and the RW3000.
> 
> I am a really big fan of the last gen Smabat buds (M2s Pro, ST10S) in the range of $50 to $110(ish). Personally I find the ST10S gold (150Ohm driver) to have more quantity of bass than the others. But I won't discount the M2s Pro (stock) either. They are fantastic! The most similar to those that are budget (to me) are the NiceHCK EBS2.
> 
> I have not heard the ones mentioned, so I can't comment on if there is more quantity of bass with the ones mentioned or not.


What’s your thoughts on the EBS2? I’m between them and the monk lite. Not sure if I’m being drawn in to the aesthetics too much.


----------



## GTAm

Thank you guys for the suggestions. 

It seems RW2000 is the winner in the p/p area. 

However, would you consider them over ST10s or ST20 for the same amount of money?


----------



## baskingshark

GTAm said:


> Thank you guys for the suggestions.
> 
> It seems RW2000 is the winner in the p/p area.
> 
> However, would you consider them over ST10s or ST20 for the same amount of money?



I have the ST10S Black Gold, and this set is different from the Black Silver, which seems to have less favourable reviews. The Black Gold needs amplification (150 ohms) and is tuned neutral with a big sub-bass boost due to some labyrinth acoustic design. IMHO, the ST10S Black Gold has better bass than the RW2000, but in all other departments the RW2000 is the winner.

I don't have the ST20 original, but I have the ST20 Pro, and this has an added BA inside and is more expensive than the ST20 non Pro. The ST20 Pro is more technical than the RW2000, but it suffers from a horrendous fit. Takes a lot of manipulation and mods to get it to fit well, and even so, it is more power hungry than the RW2000, and has more diminishing returns.


----------



## numon

DBaldock9 said:


> The ST-20 has more low Bass than any of my other earbuds, and I don't think they have a Mid-Bass hump.
> The K's K600 (2019) 600-Ω earbuds (no longer available) do seem to have a slightly more realistic sounding Bass and Sound Stage - but I do like the thump from the ST-20.


please  compare st10s black gold  vs st20 in detail ,separation and wideness stage...? there is very few review of st20.


----------



## samandhi

RockSloth said:


> What’s your thoughts on the EBS2? I’m between them and the monk lite. Not sure if I’m being drawn in to the aesthetics too much.


I find the EB2S to sound VERY good for the aksing price. I think they sound so close to the sound of the M2s Pro (stock) that I can only pick them out because I have listened to them long enough to know. If they were both brand new to me, I am not sure I could pick them out, unless I spent quite a bit of time doing an A/B with them. But of course YMMV.  

This is all to say, I think that the EB2S are worth the asking price. Yes, they do look very nice, but ignore all of that, because it is the sound that counts on these. As for comparing them to the Monk Lite, I have not heard them, but have heard they are decent. Not sure if they would be better, but I have read they are pretty different in sound signature IIRC. 


GTAm said:


> Thank you guys for the suggestions.
> 
> It seems RW2000 is the winner in the p/p area.
> 
> However, would you consider them over ST10s or ST20 for the same amount of money?


I haven't heard the ST20 (non, or pro), but I would take the RW2000 every day over the ST10S. But that is because the sound signature fits my tastes better. So, not detracting from the ST10S (gold for me) because they are also very good. The RW2000 is just a better all-rounder IMO. Neither of them really do anything wrong if I'm honest. 


baskingshark said:


> *I have the ST10S Black Gold, and this set is different from the Black Silver, which seems to have less favourable reviews. The Black Gold needs amplification (150 ohms) and is tuned neutral with a big sub-bass boost due to some labyrinth acoustic design. IMHO, the ST10S Black Gold has better bass than the RW2000, but in all other departments the RW2000 is the winner.*
> 
> I don't have the ST20 original, but I have the ST20 Pro, and this has an added BA inside and is more expensive than the ST20 non Pro. The ST20 Pro is more technical than the RW2000, but it suffers from a horrendous fit. Takes a lot of manipulation and mods to get it to fit well, and even so, it is more power hungry than the RW2000, and has more diminishing returns.


This is EXACTLY what I would say, other than to clarify that having better bass means (to me) more linear bass and more quantity sub-bass. The RW2000 has excellent bass and great quantity (for mid-bass and up), as long as you are listening to music that has more mid-bass than sub-bass (though not void, just recessed).


----------



## baskingshark

New upcoming BGVP earbuds:

DX6

https://www.facebook.com/BGVPaudio/posts/526570375595596






Anyone tried their earbuds before? Not too impressed with their IEMs TBH.


----------



## furyossa (May 10, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> New upcoming BGVP earbuds:
> 
> DX6
> 
> ...


Yes  I always regret buying the DX5. The worst implementation of DLC driver in any buds.
The build quality is fantastic but sound quality ... well.
They paid more attention to the exterior appearance than to the design good interior and vent system


----------



## rprodrigues (May 10, 2022)

S * * * * * pt2021 can now be ordered at about $40 on Aliexpress (Brazilian Shopee as well).

P.S.: I couldn't resist and ordered a second pair at $30 thanks to some discounts (Shopee).


----------



## rprodrigues

baskingshark said:


> New upcoming BGVP earbuds:
> 
> DX6
> 
> ...



DX5 have a couple of mixed reviews, so I skipped them.

Regarding iems, their Artmagic DH3 is among my best "flat" sets.


----------



## ShaneyMac

Not sure if this is right place (or DIY Earbuds thread). Does anybody have experience with this guy from Thailand: https://www.facebook.com/holymoodaudio/ ? 
Some of his earbuds looks really nice, but not sure about the sound


----------



## DBaldock9

numon said:


> please  compare st10s black gold  vs st20 in detail ,separation and wideness stage...? there is very few review of st20.



First - My Smabat ST-10s (Gold/Black) (2020) seem to be unique, having 300-Ω drivers (measured with two different DMMs), rather than the 150-Ω drivers that other people report in theirs.
Second - My Smabat ST-20 (2022) aren't as comfortable, and are more difficult to get a good fit/seal in my ears - so while I really like how they sound, it's just when I'm not moving around very much.
Third - Using a rubber ring, and two Hiegi Donut Foams on the ST-20; using one Hiegi Donut Foam on the ST-10s.
.
Current set-up, playing the 192-KHz / 24-Bit Chesky Binaural recording of Cándido Camero's "Wow Wow Holy Cow" from the album _The Master _(2014):
.
HiBy RS6 (all Darwin settings Off/default, NOS, UAPP bit-perfect) [4.4mm TRRRS] -> 4.4mm TRRRS / 2.5mm TRRS adapter -> 2.5mm TRRS / 2x 3-pin XLR -> [2x 3-Pin XLR] S.M.S.L. sAp-9 Balanced Amp [2.5mm TRRS] -> Impact Audio 2-Strand Copper Litz 2.5mm TRRS to MMCX cable -> Smabat earbuds
.
The ST-20 seems to be a bit more efficient than the ST-10s (Gold/Black, 300-Ω), playing a bit louder at the same Volume Control setting.
Since the ST-20 are slightly louder, and have more low Bass, they sound a bit closer to the source, but the Sound Stage still has a similar width as the ST-10s.
Any differences in detail and separation are pretty subtle - and would probably be even less, if I was able to do an exact volume match between them.
.
Overall - I like the sound of both the ST-10s (Gold/Black, 300-Ω), and the ST-20 - preferring the extra thump of the ST-20, when I'm not moving around, and can get a decent fit/seal in my ears.


----------



## furyossa

ShaneyMac said:


> Not sure if this is right place (or DIY Earbuds thread). Does anybody have experience with this guy from Thailand: https://www.facebook.com/holymoodaudio/ ?
> Some of his earbuds looks really nice, but not sure about the sound


It's a good place to post it here. He builds nice looking wooden buds for sure, and yes, he uses the same DIY driver that we use.
I can't comment about sound. He probably uses your own "magic"


----------



## Nxfb

rprodrigues said:


> S * * * * * pt2021 can now be ordered at about $40 on Aliexpress (Brazilian Shopee as well).
> 
> P.S.: I couldn't resist and ordered a second pair at $30 thanks to some discounts (Shopee).


Have you done any review ?
Did you try the pt2022 ?
thanks


----------



## rprodrigues

Nxfb said:


> Have you done any review ?
> Did you try the pt2022 ?
> thanks



No and no. Sorry.  

But you can find some reliable comments about pt2021 here in this thread (try to search for some comments from WoodyLuvr).


----------



## Ronion

ShaneyMac said:


> Not sure if this is right place (or DIY Earbuds thread). Does anybody have experience with this guy from Thailand: https://www.facebook.com/holymoodaudio/ ?
> Some of his earbuds looks really nice, but not sure about the sound


I can tell you this, since he’s putting that much work into the shell, I’d almost bet they don’t sound bad.  He’s using some of the easiest drivers to tune well/the hardest to screw up.  Even if he has no idea what he’s doing, they should be at least on par with most other commercial offerings.  It’s hard to say with any certainty of course with those shells as the acoustics are going to be dramatically different.  Still, this is more than just assembling off the shelf parts though and I admire it tremendously.  Thank you for posting!


----------



## numon (May 11, 2022)

DBaldock9 said:


> First - My Smabat ST-10s (Gold/Black) (2020) seem to be unique, having 300-Ω drivers (measured with two different DMMs), rather than the 150-Ω drivers that other people report in theirs.
> Second - My Smabat ST-20 (2022) aren't as comfortable, and are more difficult to get a good fit/seal in my ears - so while I really like how they sound, it's just when I'm not moving around very much.
> Third - Using a rubber ring, and two Hiegi Donut Foams on the ST-20; using one Hiegi Donut Foam on the ST-10s.
> .
> ...


thanks for answer.
for little difference   no need to buy.i think they concrete on st20 pro but it has fit problem and price is too high for my budget.maybe later st20s will come.


----------



## mochill

Nicehck B70 discount code : PGC7YF2L8TS9 

after the coupon and the price is  $24.99 for 3.5mm /25.99 for 2.5mm/26.99 for 4.4mm


----------



## KutuzovGambit (May 11, 2022)

BCool said:


> I'd be interested in hearing your impressions! Not much info on the M3 Pro but they look like a tempting set


OK so I received my replacement unit last week and have now gotten around to listening to them for a bit after completing my review of the Reecho SG-01 OVA.

The M3 Pro continues with Smabat's theme of configurable tuning, although instead of swappable drivers as with the M2s Pro, the M3 Pro has replaceable tuning dampers. With the default gold dampers, the tuning is quite similar to the M Pro which I recently reviewed, aka a bright V-shape. However the black dampers that come in the package bring the mids up considerably, creating a very shallow U-shape tuning with a slight accent on the mid-bass and a moderate emphasis on the upper mids. This is much closer to my target preference (basically, neutral with bass boost) and I find it an extremely enjoyable listen with far less fatigue. Detail and resolution remain excellent... perhaps even slightly better than the M Pro, which was by no means a slouch in this area.

The driver is the 150-ohm black gold that has been used in other models, and is a huge step up technically over the driver in the M Pro, mainly in that soundstage is no longer one dimensional, but has much better height and somewhat better depth; consequently the imaging, layering and separation have much more room to exist properly. As long as your source can handle the higher power requirement of the M3 Pro, I would say it is 100% worth the modest premium over the M Pro.

Smabat has also promised that more tuning dampers will be released in the future to further customize the sound.

All in all I think these are likely to become my favorite amongst the buds I have heard so far. I'll keep listening and working on a full review.


----------



## sunsun89

mochill said:


> Nicehck B70 discount code : PGC7YF2L8TS9
> 
> after the coupon and the price is  $24.99 for 3.5mm /25.99 for 2.5mm/26.99 for 4.4mm


how ti buy b70 with 2.5mm jack?


----------



## samandhi

KutuzovGambit said:


> OK so I received my replacement unit last week and have now gotten around to listening to them for a bit after completing my review of the Reecho SG-01 OVA.
> 
> The M3 Pro continues with Smabat's theme of configurable tuning, although instead of swappable drivers as with the M2s Pro, the M3 Pro has replaceable tuning dampers. With the default gold dampers, the tuning is quite similar to the M Pro which I recently reviewed, aka a bright V-shape. However the black dampers that come in the package bring the mids up considerably, creating a very shallow U-shape tuning with a slight accent on the mid-bass and a moderate emphasis on the upper mids. This is much closer to my target preference (basically, neutral with bass boost) and I find it an extremely enjoyable listen with far less fatigue. Detail and resolution remain excellent... perhaps even slightly better than the M Pro, which was by no means a slouch in this area.
> 
> ...


Nice Post!

Just in case you didn't know, with the M2s Pro, you can not only change drivers, but also those dampers too.


----------



## BCool

KutuzovGambit said:


> OK so I received my replacement unit last week and have now gotten around to listening to them for a bit after completing my review of the Reecho SG-01 OVA.
> 
> The M3 Pro continues with Smabat's theme of configurable tuning, although instead of swappable drivers as with the M2s Pro, the M3 Pro has replaceable tuning dampers. With the default gold dampers, the tuning is quite similar to the M Pro which I recently reviewed, aka a bright V-shape. However the black dampers that come in the package bring the mids up considerably, creating a very shallow U-shape tuning with a slight accent on the mid-bass and a moderate emphasis on the upper mids. This is much closer to my target preference (basically, neutral with bass boost) and I find it an extremely enjoyable listen with far less fatigue. Detail and resolution remain excellent... perhaps even slightly better than the M Pro, which was by no means a slouch in this area.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the write-up! It's definitely going on the wishlist but might have to wait a while since I've just ordered the Penon PAC buds . But it sounds like they'll be a good complement to my Timeless


----------



## Ronion

Who says earbuds can't do bass, can't be neutral, can't have an extended frequency response?  Okay, maybe not as broad as the best of other formats, but audibly very close.  A bit of understanding how we hear and you'll agree.  Buds are the best bang for your buck in audio.  DIY is the best bang for your buck in buds.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Ronion said:


> Who says earbuds can't do bass, can't be neutral, can't have an extended frequency response?  Okay, maybe not as broad as the best of other formats, but audibly very close.  A bit of understanding how we hear and you'll agree.  Buds are the best bang for your buck in audio.  DIY is the best bang for your buck in buds.


What driver is that? In what type shell?


----------



## baskingshark

sunsun89 said:


> how ti buy b70 with 2.5mm jack?



Don't think they sell B70 with a 2.5 mm termination.

A few options are:
1) Buy the 4.4 mm termination one and use a 4.4 mm -> 2.5 mm adapter.
2) Ask one of the helpful folks here to reterminate/mod the termination to 2.5 mm for you. Or perhaps if you have DIY skills u can try it.


----------



## DBaldock9

DBaldock9 said:


> First - My Smabat ST-10s (Gold/Black) (2020) seem to be unique, having 300-Ω drivers (measured with two different DMMs), rather than the 150-Ω drivers that other people report in theirs.
> Second - My Smabat ST-20 (2022) aren't as comfortable, and are more difficult to get a good fit/seal in my ears - so while I really like how they sound, it's just when I'm not moving around very much.
> Third - Using a rubber ring, and two Hiegi Donut Foams on the ST-20; using one Hiegi Donut Foam on the ST-10s.
> .
> ...



This track - "The Hiring Fair", from the *Fairport Convention* album _Gladys' Leap_ (1985) -



- has a kickdrum that really shows the Bass impact _thump_ of the ST-20. Very satisfying!


----------



## Setmagic (May 12, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Who says earbuds can't do bass, can't be neutral, can't have an extended frequency response?  Okay, maybe not as broad as the best of other formats, but audibly very close.  A bit of understanding how we hear and you'll agree.  Buds are the best bang for your buck in audio.  DIY is the best bang for your buck in buds.


Ronion vs ...


----------



## jeejack

Setmagic said:


> Ronion vs ...


Nice one !💣 🍻


----------



## Chessnaudio

Forgot to post here. Happy birthday to me
...Now if only I could find my missing Newbsound 32 pro


----------



## samandhi

Chessnaudio said:


> Forgot to post here. Happy birthday to me
> ...Now if only I could find my missing Newbsound 32 pro


Happy birthday! Nice phones!

 If you are married, or have kids, you might want to check their possessions to make sure they weren't accidentally (on purpose) pilfered. If so, you may as well just order some new ones...


----------



## Chessnaudio

samandhi said:


> Happy birthday! Nice phones!
> 
> If you are married, or have kids, you might want to check their possessions to make sure they weren't accidentally (on purpose) pilfered. If so, you may as well just order some new ones...


Just moved. Everything is a mess


----------



## samandhi

Chessnaudio said:


> Just moved. Everything is a mess


AHH! Been there done that (hopefully not doing it again)... 

Heck! A new place, new phones; all you need is some good wine or a good beer and some "relax" time, and you will have it made, sounds like?!


----------



## Chessnaudio

samandhi said:


> AHH! Been there done that (hopefully not doing it again)...
> 
> Heck! A new place, new phones; all you need is some good wine or a good beer and some "relax" time, and you will have it made, sounds like?!


Yes indeed!! Doing that right now


----------



## FranQL

samandhi said:


> AHH! Been there done that (hopefully not doing it again)...
> 
> Heck! A new place, new phones; all you need is some good wine or a good beer and some "relax" time, and you will have it made, sounds like?!




Beer is always good, but if it can be an Alhambra or a Mahou (both green), life can be wonderful


----------



## KutuzovGambit

Just published my Smabat M3 Pro review. For only $11 more than the M Pro, this is a no-brainer for the added tuning damper options and much improved technicalities (as long as your source can handle the 150-ohm impedance). Highly recommended bright-neutral bud!


----------



## pagodeiro

KutuzovGambit said:


> Just published my Smabat M3 Pro review. For only $11 more than the M Pro, this is a no-brainer for the added tuning damper options and much improved technicalities (as long as your source can handle the 150-ohm impedance). Highly recommended bright-neutral bud!


Thanks for the review. 
Sounds like a very good earbud


----------



## KutuzovGambit

pagodeiro said:


> Thanks for the review.
> Sounds like a very good earbud


As long as you’re looking for a detail-oriented bright neutral bud it’s great!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 16, 2022)

*Calling All Hands!*

I need some help with the *Flathead Earbud Timeline*... there are a number of years that remain stubbornly sparse:

*1997*_;  *2001*;  *2002*;  *2004*;  _*2005*​
If anyone can recall and/or may know of any models missing from any time period please kindly PM me the following information:
​*DEBUT YEAR - BRAND NAME -- MODEL NAME/NUMBER -- (IMPEDANCE VALUE)*​​Thank you very much. Cheers!


----------



## Alex.Grimm

baskingshark said:


> New upcoming BGVP earbuds:
> 
> DX6
> 
> ...


BGVP DX6 https://a.aliexpress.com/_AE6BZV


----------



## MelodyMood (May 16, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> So the new NiceHCK B70 has just been released on Aliexpress:
> 
> 30 bucks. Carbon plated diaphragm, option for balanced or 3.5 mm cables (though not detachable).
> 
> ...


Looks nice actually. However, the Driver Size is on the lower side so may be thin sounding. But any review is welcome. Little Expensive too actually. I got B40 through something Mystery Box option and it wasn't good.


----------



## citral23

Maybe a dud because I have 2 pairs of B40 I use for confcalls, and whenever I (rarely) listen to music with them I never find anything wrong. They are just ok imo, neither exciting nor bad, good for the price tbh.


----------



## MelodyMood

citral23 said:


> Maybe a dud because I have 2 pairs of B40 I use for confcalls, and whenever I (rarely) listen to music with them I never find anything wrong. They are just ok imo, neither exciting nor bad, good for the price tbh.


You may be right. They are just Ok and nothing exciting. But I was expecting much better at that price.


----------



## Ronion

MelodyMood said:


> Looks nice actually. However, the Driver Size is on the lower side so may be thin sounding. But any review is welcome. Little Expensive too actually. I got B40 through something Mystery Box option and it wasn't good.


The buds with the most bass in the graph is a 14.8mm.  In fact it’s the best and deepest bass Ive heard in a bud.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Ronion said:


> Earbuds can definitely do bass.  I haven’t built one that can do it like an IEM or the very best cans, but they can do bass and I have proof with some of the buds I shave built.  They can be lean and tight, they can be warm, and they can be typical buds without too much output below 80Hz.  Many well regarded cans are the same like the HD600 series.  Anyway, here are some graphs for proof.





Ronion said:


> Who says earbuds can't do bass, can't be neutral, can't have an extended frequency response?  Okay, maybe not as broad as the best of other formats, but audibly very close.  A bit of understanding how we hear and you'll agree.  Buds are the best bang for your buck in audio.  DIY is the best bang for your buck in buds.





WoodyLuvr said:


> What driver is that? In what type shell?





Ronion said:


> The buds with the most bass in the graph is a 14.8mm.  In fact it’s the best and deepest bass Ive heard in a bud.


*@Ronion* Which buds (driver) is that lowest plotted one on this graph? I am assuming it is the same on the previous graphs you have recently cryptically shared on the thread?


----------



## Setmagic (May 18, 2022)

@WoodyLuvr
I think Ronion don't want this situation 

... with sellers


----------



## Ronion

WoodyLuvr said:


> *@Ronion* Which buds (driver) is that lowest plotted one on this graph? I am assuming it is the same on the previous graphs you have recently cryptically shared on the thread?


They are all different drivers and different methods of tuning.  The 2 you mention do have a very similar balance.  One just has a more narrow frequency response though the sound is less different than the graphs would suggest if you are not good at interpreting the scribbles and wiggles.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 18, 2022)

Setmagic said:


> @WoodyLuvr
> I think Ronion don't want this situation
> 
> ... with sellers





Ronion said:


> They are all different drivers and different methods of tuning.  The 2 you mention do have a very similar balance.  One just has a more narrow frequency response though the sound is less different than the graphs would suggest if you are not good at interpreting the scribbles and wiggles.


With all due respect, I simply do not get why such graphs and posts are being shared in this thread then.

Without any further context and discussion such graphs are fairly meaningless. How do they encourage healthy discourse between us and expand the hobby? Why peak curiosity with multiple said posts and then turn around and completely ignore any/all sincere reactions and questions of interest about them? Or worse provide a reply post that 'beats around the bush' failing to answer any questions asked but in-turn simply questions if an individual can interpret a FR chart or not... it was very clear that they are of different tunings but why even offer up such interesting information if not willing to discuss it any further?

If someone doesn't want to share their "earbud knowledge" that is perfectly fine but they then should kindly refrain from posting teasers e.g. "*hey look at this stellar tuning response... but f-u all, I am not going to share what it is with you. Go pound rocks!*".

I honestly don't understand this recent "secret squirrel" behavior... there are only a very limited number of DIY drivers available and absolutely no top secret drivers out there that I am aware of. Nor are there really any spectacularly new and/or proprietary-level tuning methods that have not been shared and/or discussed many times over the decades. DIYing headphones and earphones has been happening for a very long time now and much, if not all, has been freely shared already... why the secrecy now?

Come on comrades, the wheel is not being reinvented here. Tuning is much more about skill, experience, and having a good ear not about the driver type or dampening materials used. Now of course some materials are better than others but you get the point.

All in all, very disappointing... in fact it is unkind and disrespectful especially to those of us whom have freely shared their knowledge and experience with all without hesitation.


----------



## FranQL (May 18, 2022)

I do not go into assessing whether or not it is necessary to make a mysterious publication, I prefer not to make them, honestly.

But:

1.- A modder seller exposes a model, says nothing about it, and nothing happens, if you want to know try it. buy it

2. I understand that Ronion does not want to say from which driver he has obtained that level of bass, because with adjustments, complex adjustments (no, it is not all invented), he achieves a result that is very difficult to match. I admire him.

3. Sadly tomorrow we would have 15 new bass edition upgrade pro plus models with that driver mod as the protagonist.

I will ask he for information to build one for me, if he share it I will do it and if not, then I will understand, but I will not get any benefit economic from Ronion work (although at the bass level from what I see)....


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 18, 2022)

FranQL said:


> I do not go into assessing whether or not it is necessary to make a mysterious publication, I prefer not to make them, honestly.
> 
> But:
> 
> ...


Very well said *@FranQL *

I think the key is *to not open the door and give a big warm hello if you are simply not going to welcome someone in but rather turn around and slam the door shut right in their face! *

And yes, the issue was more about why such kind of posts are created to then only ignore sincere reactions to them. I was genuinely curious to hear about the driver set-up and shell type being used that was offering such a nice bass response... however, now at this point I could care less as I don't fancy being teased, begging for a response, and then to only end-up with no helpful information to satisfy the invoked curiosity in the very first place!

But I do clearly understand all of your points though and concur with them all to some degree.


Though I would like to offer another perspective (coming from long experience in the hobby) that may change your view on this subject.

A large group of us back in the 1990s and early 2000s heavily experimented with and modded early headphone models by Fostex and Grado... spending tens and tens of thousands of dollars in the pursuit of creating a better sounding headphone. A lot of new dampening innovations and new materials were stumbled upon back then as a few members in the group actually worked for audio companies. Although Fostex and Grado both clearly benefitted from all of this hard work by our own personal hard earned dollars and time... releasing improved models that were quite fiscally profitable for them (e.g. T20RP MK2 and RS1). As well as a number of brilliant models debuting from new start ups... also, all on the backs of what our said group had toiled and accomplished over a ten-year plus period of time. I am doubtful any of us from that group truly regrets the funds and time that we had spent in that pursuit and the comradery shared back then. Ultimately, in the end though I really do believe we the headphone audiophiles prevailed in benefitting the most.

And the key point of the above story is that we shared everything openly to all and yes there were always a few jerks that shared nothing and simply ran off with the ideas and even a few went off and even created their own headphone companies and profited from us! But wow it sure was fun and everyone pretty much got along well and readily shared their discoveries which in the end really pushed the over-ear headphones medium to new heights.


----------



## Setmagic (May 18, 2022)

@WoodyLuvr, im agree with @FranQL and understand your disappointment as well.
But I will do the same as @Ronion
He's sharing his knowledge, he develop mesurment gear that is perfect for earbuds and innovative in terms of creating graphs in general.

This graphs are just for information how it's possible to earbud sounds. It's not a recepie how to make them but greate news to all DIYers about no beet to worry earbuds can't achieve bass, just need more attention.

PS.
FranQL buds + EarStudio ES100 MK2


----------



## FranQL

Setmagic said:


> @WoodyLuvr, im agree with @FranQL and understand your disappointment as well.
> But I will do the same as @Ronion
> He's sharing his knowledge, he develop mesurment gear that is perfect for earbuds and innovative in terms of creating graphs in general.
> 
> ...



oh i forgot the horrible doodle you made me do! nice picture!!!!


----------



## Setmagic

FranQL said:


> oh i forgot the horrible doodle you made me do! nice picture!!!!


Thank You I have nice natural light from butterfly next door.

I will go to local jewellery and make it
G O L D


----------



## rprodrigues

FranQL said:


> oh i forgot the horrible doodle you made me do! nice picture!!!!



Is FranQL a new brand?


----------



## Setmagic

rprodrigues said:


> Is FranQL a new brand?


Its even more hyped becouse You can't buy it or get it just like that.


----------



## nofarewell

Aiwa HP-V741, just arrived. 😎
I'll give some burn-in time, very low-mid set so far, not bad on higher freqs either. I'd say on the level of a later totl sony earbud (mdr-e565, e575) but less lively on the mid-high, high spectrum. Glad to have it 🙂


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> Is FranQL a new brand?



Ofc


----------



## furyossa

Setmagic said:


> Its even more hyped becouse You can't buy it or get it just like that.


@FranQL is like .
Only "good kids" can receive presents


----------



## Setmagic

furyossa said:


> @FranQL is like .
> Only "good kids" can receive presents


_FranQL buds - lifestyle design and Hi-End audio on the move.

_


----------



## samandhi

Setmagic said:


> _FranQL buds - lifestyle design and Hi-End audio on the move.
> 
> _


Man! I don't think I could do that wrap/hang style with my iBasso DX300...


----------



## Setmagic

samandhi said:


> Man! I don't think I could do that wrap/hang style with my iBasso DX300...


For DX300 You can use it


----------



## samandhi

Setmagic said:


> For DX300 You can use it


ROFL! For sure. It is pretty bad when you plan on what to wear (loose fitting jeans for instance) based on what DAP you might be carrying that day...


----------



## Setmagic

samandhi said:


> ROFL! For sure. It is pretty bad when you plan on what to wear (loose fitting jeans for instance) based on what DAP you might be carrying that day...


Its still quite small according the new DAPs who can weight up to 3kg.
Sellers knows how to sold Hi-End


----------



## mochill

Deep bass you need kube


----------



## jeejack

Setmagic said:


> _FranQL buds - lifestyle design and Hi-End audio on the move.
> 
> _


Totally agree! I also love @FranQL buds 🍻


----------



## Gifting

@furyossa I’ve read your past posts on the Tingo TG38s and was intrigued. I have the TC200 diy and thought the tg38s would be a nice upgrade. I really like the sound signature of the tc200. Unfortunately I’m in the USA and have trouble navigating the TaoBao website. Do you know if the TG38s DIY on Aliexpress sounds the same as the originals? If anyone would like to chime in, I’m all ears!


----------



## samandhi

Gifting said:


> @furyossa I’ve read your past posts on the Tingo TG38s and was intrigued. I have the TC200 diy and thought the tg38s would be a nice upgrade. I really like the sound signature of the tc200. Unfortunately I’m in the USA and have trouble navigating the TaoBao website. Do you know if the TG38s DIY on Aliexpress sounds the same as the originals? If anyone would like to chime in, I’m all ears!


I see what you did there at the end...


----------



## jeejack

Gifting said:


> @furyossa I’ve read your past posts on the Tingo TG38s and was intrigued. I have the TC200 diy and thought the tg38s would be a nice upgrade. I really like the sound signature of the tc200. Unfortunately I’m in the USA and have trouble navigating the TaoBao website. Do you know if the TG38s DIY on Aliexpress sounds the same as the originals? If anyone would like to chime in, I’m all ears!


This are:
TG-38S DIY earphone HIFI earhub earphone PK A8/MX985
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mrEkniO


----------



## Gifting (May 18, 2022)

jeejack said:


> This are:
> TG-38S DIY earphone HIFI earhub earphone PK A8/MX985
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mrEkniO


Yes, they are the ones I was looking at. Do you know if these have the same sound signature as the originals? I read that the DIY ones might sound different, but I’m not too sure.

Edit: These are the TG-38s that I was comparing the Aliexpress ones to: https://world.taobao.com/item/21425919834.htm


----------



## furyossa

Gifting said:


> Yes, they are the ones I was looking at. Do you know if these have the same sound signature as the originals? I read that the DIY ones might sound different, but I’m not too sure.
> 
> Edit: These are the TG-38s that I was comparing the Aliexpress ones to: https://world.taobao.com/item/21425919834.htm


These on Chitty store are original, I have them. 
The photo on their store has too much yellow tint. Also this version with labels on jack and splitter is old one




They decided to put better cable (much softer than on TC200) in the new version. Buds are the same, ie. they use the same driver. I recommend these 100%


----------



## Gifting

furyossa said:


> These on Chitty store are original, I have them.
> The photo on their store has too much yellow tint. Also this version with labels on jack and splitter is old one
> 
> They decided to put better cable (much softer than on TC200) in the new version. Buds are the same, ie. they use the same driver. I recommend these 100%


Thank you very much @furyossa! I’ll go order them.


----------



## Sam L

Wow, it took a long, long time for me to finally like these. I have to run these eq settings in order to be able to listen to them for more than 10 mins. 





My co-working set up for today.


----------



## Ronion

WoodyLuvr said:


> With all due respect, I simply do not get why such graphs and posts are being shared in this thread then.
> 
> Without any further context and discussion such graphs are fairly meaningless. How do they encourage healthy discourse between us and expand the hobby? Why peak curiosity with multiple said posts and then turn around and completely ignore any/all sincere reactions and questions of interest about them? Or worse provide a reply post that 'beats around the bush' failing to answer any questions asked but in-turn simply questions if an individual can interpret a FR chart or not... it was very clear that they are of different tunings but why even offer up such interesting information if not willing to discuss it any further?
> 
> ...


I just want to show people that buds don’t have to conform to the stereotypes.  In fact they can certainly be among the best transducers out there for a lot less.  I don’t want to say what these things are because people have stolen and made money from ideas in the DIY earbuds thread as well as other DIY efforts.  People making money off of others designs sucks.  I’d hope you agree.  Especially when they pass them off as their own.  We’ve even had people infiltrate our server.  Sad but true.  

Sorry you find it unkind.  I’m just not a fan of people using my years of hard work, insight, and intellect for their profit.  Your thinking so doesn’t make it a fact.  I find your tone unkind, ignorant, and shortsighted.  So what?  Where’s that leave us?  We’ve always been cool in the past.  Are we cool now?


----------



## mochill

Found kube ek2 again on ebay so I bought a pair 😁


----------



## samandhi

mochill said:


> Found kube ek2 again on ebay so I bought a pair 😁


You should be careful what you say.. It seems as though you brought this particular expenditure on yourself by your own suggestion?!


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> Wow, it took a long, long time for me to finally like these. I have to run these eq settings in order to be able to listen to them for more than 10 mins.
> 
> 
> 
> My co-working set up for today.


I think that your keyboard and desk setup are fancier than Rose


----------



## Ronion (May 19, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Very well said *@FranQL *
> 
> I think the key is *to not open the door and give a big warm hello if you are simply not going to welcome someone in but rather turn around and slam the door shut right in their face! *
> 
> ...


I just saw this one and it's a much better tone (no pun intended of course).  No one slammed any door in your face.  You don't even build buds....  I can't believe you are taking such offense.  You seem hurt and/or insulted for no reason.  I have a temper and I can be harsh.  You'd know it if I was slamming a door in your face.  You don't get to dictate what people post on here.  You are nothing more than I am here (or anywhere for that matter).  Climb down off your hobby horse and get real.  There is already a thread for modding/building here.  Too many people steal, sell, and don't credit.  That's all.  I'd love to help and I've offered to help several people here that I like in PMs without any request or desire for reimbursement.  Just don't expect me to help the people who are getting paid.  They can help themselves.  It's what they do for money.  I do other things for money and no one helped me do it for free.  It’s not camaraderie when one gives and several take.


----------



## Ronion

furyossa said:


> @FranQL is like .
> Only "good kids" can receive presents


Explains why I didn't get one


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 19, 2022)

Ronion said:


> I just want to show people that buds don’t have to conform to the stereotypes.  In fact they can certainly be among the best transducers out there for a lot less.  I don’t want to say what these things are because people have stolen and made money from ideas in the DIY earbuds thread as well as other DIY efforts.  People making money off of others designs sucks.  I’d hope you agree.  Especially when they pass them off as their own.  We’ve even had people infiltrate our server.  Sad but true.
> 
> Sorry you find it unkind.  I’m just not a fan of people using my years of hard work, insight, and intellect for their profit.  Your thinking so doesn’t make it a fact.  I find your tone unkind, ignorant, and shortsighted.  So what?  Where’s that leave us?  We’ve always been cool in the past.  Are we cool now?





Ronion said:


> I just saw this one and it's a much better tone (no pun intended of course).  No one slammed any door in your face.  *You don't even build buds.... * I can't believe you are taking such offense.  You seem hurt and/or insulted for no reason.  I have a temper and I can be harsh.  You'd know it if I was slamming a door in your face.  You don't get to dictate what people post on here.  You are nothing more than I am here (or anywhere for that matter).  Climb down off your hobby horse and get real.  There is already a thread for modding/building here.  Too many people steal, sell, and don't credit.  That's all.  I'd love to help and I've offered to help several people here that I like in PMs without any request or desire for reimbursement.  Just don't expect me to help the people who are getting paid.  They can help themselves.  It's what they do for money.  I do other things for money and no one helped me do it for free.  It’s not camaraderie when one gives and several take.


Yes, that is correct, or partially so… I don’t build earbuds, *anymore*. Unfortunately, my aging eyes and unsteady hands will no longer cooperate with my DIYing earbuds or even full-sized headphones, speakers, cables, amps, or DACs for that matter. Though a fair number of your fellow Earbud DIYers (on that before mentioned private DIY Earbud Discord Server) will attest the knowledge that I freely give to them on this very subject.



*“Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness.”- Oscar Wilde*

Innovation requires some degree of copying, mimicking and sometimes outright stealing… just as much as it needs experimentation, research, and development. So even at the lowest degree it can be considered in some manner a form of stealing but that is totally unavoidable as humanity has advanced itself on such premise and greatly so due to both the sharing and stealing of information across every aspect of our lives. Skills are passed on... not inherited through evolutionary genetics.



*A bank manager doesn’t permanently close the bank’s doors because a few rotten apples are bank robbers. Humanity doesn’t live by the needs or actions of the few (though we would like to think so sometimes), but of the many.*

Unfortunately, some levels of sacrifice are required and selfless acts are in order to keep pushing development and moving innovation forward. If we remain selfish and hold back knowledge we cripple the process and could very well stall it forever. The flathead earbud transducer medium is clearly not fairing that well now. More than ever now as more and more brands are dropping their flathead earbud models for IEMs and/or other audio-related endeavors. Not a good sign. How can we move forward with such a secretive and crippling mindset based around who is getting credit and/or making a profit or not? _*That to me is ignorance and short-sightedness by us all; collectively speaking.*_



*Some food for thought for current Earbud DIYers:*

Currently, DIYers gain their knowledge from: _directly sharing with one another_; _opening, examining, and copying other earbuds_; and/or_ following online DIY guides_ (many times created by some of us older folks and repurposed for the medium). Completely known materials are being used here though. No new flathead earbud drivers are being developed and created by DIYers in this current context and only but a very select few are even making their own shells… though they too are self-admittingly borrowing from older proven designs. Even tuning methods (mass loading, dampening, filtering, resistance circuitry, porting & venting) are heavily borrowing from known pre-existing methods being used for decades now by headphone DIYers across many different transducer mediums.

The venerable MX500, although debuted by Sennheiser in 2001 and copied like no other earbud design, was in fact not created by Sennheiser but was fully OEM’d by Foster (along with the AKG K 612) who in-turn had heavily borrowed from Makoto Yamagishi and his team’s Acoustic Turbo Systems used by Sony and Aiwa in the early days of the Golden Age of Flathead Earbuds. So really there isn’t an earbud model and/or shell type today that isn’t somehow working upon the pipe, flute, port, and vent systems that Makoto created back in the 1980s. Now Makoto is a personal friend of mine, whom I have known since the 1980s, and he never has once belly-ached about others copying and stealing his designs and ideas. In fact, he is dumbfounded that his acoustic system still remains prevalent to this day and that no completely new innovation has been created to replace it in over four decades! Though Makoto is quick to offer that this may be more due to the earbud medium never really quite being a healthy one for any length of time than the lack of genius or creativity from following generations of audio engineers.



*How will newer better improved DIY drivers become available if we are not openly discussing them and most especially pointing out the potentiality of certain drivers over others? *

Current earbud/earbud driver manufacturers simply do not have the funds these days for the required R&D to truly innovate the medium and progress at full speed. Funds are limited and thus why we have limited drivers and shells available. Sad but true and we must all accept that reality. Therefore it requires our active participation; open discussion and sharing of experiences; and personal funds to not only progress the medium but help it survive!

Thus why I don't get all the secrecy around DIYing earbuds nor why hard work has to always equal profit, credit, and/or recognition... how does this in the end help the lowly Flathead Earbud as a transducer medium or the hobby in general?

No, I wasn't offended personally but rather perturbed as a fellow flathead lover and collector as we all collectively are earnestly trying to keep the medium alive. Insulted, yes a bit, as I, like many others, have fully shared what they know without hesitation. No, I was not dictating what should or should not be posted on the thread but rather* questioning the need to tell (show) everyone that you have a cool secret that you are unwilling to share with them*.

So again, I must ask...

_*Why post FR graphs of genuinely interesting, thought-provoking, curiosity-inducing sound signatures that are well-deserving of discourse and further examination and testing to then simply refuse to discuss them at all with the many because of the silly actions of the few?*_





Ronion said:


> You are nothing more than I am here (or anywhere for that matter).  Climb down off your hobby horse and get real.


Regretfully this type of mindset and it's manifestation thereof within this very thread was the reason why *@ClieOS* went on his way and we sadly lost his wealth of knowledge and experience. We failed to acknowledge and respect one who was indeed better than us. He gave so much and we in turn gave so little. Our folly; our lose.

Whether we like it or not... accept it or not... we are not all created equal nor does the universe operate on such precepts of equality and fairness. It is a social pipedream that has been quite successfully sold to many of us but has no proof or application in the reality (world) that we all live and operate in. There is ALWAYS a bigger, smarter, faster, stronger, better, luckier, or more important fish out there! Hence the reason why we have all been trained to respect, listen to, and follow a good number of certain figures, authorities, and representatives in our lives... and when we don't we are quickly dealt with; locked away in a tiny cell; and/or immediately disposed of.

That said, I am but a whale turd on the very bottom of the ocean. I don't own a hobby horse... but if I did, I am doubtful I could climb on it for real!


----------



## baskingshark

SIVGA M200 earbuds: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004271929608.html

$59 USD

15.4 mm PET diaphragm


----------



## Setmagic (May 19, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Regretfully this type of mindset and it's manifestation thereof within this very thread was the reason why @ClieOS went on his way and we sadly lost his wealth of knowledge and experience. We failed to acknowledge and respect one who was indeed better than us. He gave so much and we in turn gave so little. Our folly; our lose.


What's happen with ClieOS?
I quite new in this thread as far I see 4000+ pages 

Are You not afraid to lose @Ronion by pushing him to expose his mesurment gear and recepie for earbuds?
I'm understand his decision and I'm happy to know about that buds can sound that good.

It's very interesting that You said @WoodyLuvr about history of buds.
It's greate to have that history book here made by You and followed by so many.

In my opinion electro-acoustics was fully invented in 90s including dynamic drivers or even other types as orthodynamic and electrostatic.
We have all now just need to learn about it.

I think the reason of DIY Workroom document developed and shared by @Rary to make a simple way for newcomers to understand that You can make earbuds for at least 1/10 of price by Your own, and customize it for Your taste.
For example 50-100€ earbuds offering by sellers can be assemble for 5€ just like my first project:


Rary Rivet  in my version.


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> SIVGA M200 earbuds: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004271929608.html
> 
> $59 USD
> 
> 15.4 mm PET diaphragm



Hmmm.....
Something is not right here.
Don't you think that this guy's left ear has a huge Concha? Or right shell is bigger than left.
Maybe I'm wrong and this is some kind of new style


----------



## Setmagic

furyossa said:


> Hmmm.....
> Something is not right here.
> Don't you think that this guy's left ear has a huge Concha? Or right shell is bigger than left.
> Maybe I'm wrong and this is some kind of new style


Such a beautiful example of I do not pay for graphic designer i will DIY


----------



## baskingshark

furyossa said:


> Hmmm.....
> Something is not right here.
> Don't you think that this guy's left ear has a huge Concha? Or right shell is bigger than left.
> Maybe I'm wrong and this is some kind of new style





Setmagic said:


> Such a beautiful example of I do not pay for graphic designer i will DIY



LOL this is a worse photoshop fail than the Kardashians!


----------



## rprodrigues

@WoodyLuvr 

I'd like to thank you for your suggestion of ebx21 as a Q701 in earbuds form.

Nicehck ebx21 do have a tricky fitting, but once you find the point (if any), you get a very good  monitor-like sound. Actually, they sound a bit better  than Q701 for me because they have a bit more of (good) bass.


----------



## furyossa

baskingshark said:


> LOL this is a worse photoshop fail than the Kardashians!





Setmagic said:


> Such a beautiful example of I do not pay for graphic designer i will DIY


I understand, this way is much cheaper than take a photo with some dude/lady who actually wearing a pair of buds.
I have been dealing with architectural and industrial design visualization for over 20 years, and I hate to use “cutoff 's” from photos. 
The main goal of photorealistic renders is to use real parameters of the camera, lighting, real-life textures and detailed models.
Most of these cuttoffs are made in different lighting conditions and do not match the actual render so the final render aka "collage" looks overly artificial

Anyway ... before you decide to "pull the trigger" on these pair, just check with the seller that he has not really started to use the "NEW" style where the left shell is smaller than the right one


----------



## rprodrigues

furyossa said:


> ...
> 
> Anyway ... before you decide to "pull the trigger" on these pair, just check with the seller that he has not really started to use the "NEW" style where the left shell is smaller than the right one



Nah!
Keep in mind that it is just a new kind of asymmetrical design. That's innovation in its purest form...


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> Nah!
> Keep in mind that it is just a new kind of asymmetrical design. That's innovation in its purest form...


I worry when you say that, because I know that you are very close to press this button


----------



## FranQL (May 19, 2022)

captione said:


> I highly suggest K'searphones K64.





rprodrigues said:


> 2x



I followed your advice and now they are home.

They are really great. thanks a lot


----------



## rprodrigues (May 19, 2022)

furyossa said:


> I worry when you say that, because I know that you are very close to press this button



As a purist, I prefer balance to asymmetries.
This time I will skip them.



FranQL said:


> I followed your advice and now they are home.
> 
> They are really great. thanks a lot




If you told us they are good, then they are really good!
I'm glad you liked them.

K64 is my first rec for budget earbuds. They sound better than most of the earbuds discussed here. I don't know why they haven't been praised yet.


----------



## jeejack

Setmagic said:


> What's happen with ClieOS?
> I quite new in this thread as far I see 4000+ pages
> 
> Are You not afraid to lose @Ronion by pushing him to expose his mesurment gear and recepie for earbuds?
> ...



Agree ! I also put a picture with a new generation high impedance drivers! It cost me less than $ 30


----------



## FranQL

High impedance drivers too


----------



## Ronion (May 19, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> _*Why post FR graphs of genuinely interesting, thought-provoking, curiosity-inducing sound signatures that are well-deserving of discourse and further examination and testing to then simply refuse to discuss them at all with the many because of the silly actions of the few?*_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why are saying ClieOS left exactly?

I’m not saying we are created equal.  I’m just saying that you don’t get to dictate this thread and you are no better than I am.  I have respect for you but I’ll admit it’s diminished since seeing this side of you.  It saddens me a bit.  I held you in the highest regard and not just related to earbuds—as a human fecund with earbud history and just generally a good guy.  I just wish you saw me with the same level of respect and stopped pushing.  It is nice to see you taking this lighter tone.  I do freely share things regarding driver design or commercial buds and working EQs, fit, driver size myths, etc...  I’m just forever unwilling to share my designs with people who will use them for their own gain.  Doesn’t seem so bad to me.  In fact one of your best friends does the same and I don’t see you complaining about Blur ever.  In fact you started a thread in praise of Blur.  It’s a double standard.  I want my praise thread now LOL.  If you don’t do it, well I’ll, I’ll, I’ll…. Eh, holding my breath sucks… or it doesn’t.


----------



## yaps66

FranQL said:


> High impedance drivers too


Stunning! Love the colours and the cable looks hyper premium! Paired up against your weather beaten table, looks like a match made in heaven!


----------



## Ronion

yaps66 said:


> Stunning! Love the colours and the cable looks hyper premium! Paired up against your weather beaten table, looks like a match made in heaven!


The Outlaw does justice to earbuds.


----------



## Setmagic

Ronion said:


> The Outlaw does justice to earbuds.


----------



## yaps66

Ronion said:


> The Outlaw does justice to earbuds.


Nice one.  I see what you did there!  Where can I find more information on the Outlaw?


----------



## Setmagic

yaps66 said:


> Nice one.  I see what you did there!  Where can I find more information on the Outlaw?


_Outlaw is FranQL and FranQL is outlaw._


----------



## FranQL

yaps66 said:


> Nice one.  I see what you did there!  Where can I find more information on the Outlaw?



hello! I only make buds as a hobby, don't pay attention to all that hype, here you have excellent modders that can sell you DIY buds that will sound excellent!


----------



## yaps66

FranQL said:


> hello! I only make buds as a hobby, don't pay attention to all that hype, here you have excellent modders that can sell you DIY buds that will sound excellent!


Understood! The outlaws are damn beautiful! Kudos! Yes. I know there are many modders here! I already have the tofino from @tgx78 and am looking forward to the saber and lancer from @RikudouGoku!


----------



## Setmagic

@yaps66 
I pay all respect to FranQL buds by my photos and expressions it's not advertising


----------



## Setmagic

yaps66 said:


> Understood! The outlaws are damn beautiful! Kudos! Yes. I know there are many modders here!


There is also @ValSuki who have Valphonics also sharing with DIY community.


----------



## yaps66

Setmagic said:


> @yaps66
> I pay all respect to FranQL buds by my photos and expressions it's not advertising


Jeolous!!!


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> High impedance drivers too





jeejack said:


> Agree ! I also put a picture with a new generation high impedance drivers! It cost me less than $ 30


You two are like kids, you like to brag about your toys.  Hermanos!


----------



## BCool

My Penon PAC earbuds arrived yesterday and my initial impressions are that they are a great all-rounder set. I haven't had much time to sit down and listen to them or compare them with my other sets but the sound is what I'd describe as 'natural'; fairly detailed with a reasonably punchy bass. 
What surprised me most though was how comfortable they are! They suit my ears better than the standard MX500 shell despite the heavier metal build.


----------



## Sam L

FranQL said:


> High impedance drivers too


Those look amazing!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 20, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Why are saying ClieOS left exactly?
> 
> I’m not saying we are created equal.  I’m just saying that you don’t get to dictate this thread and you are no better than I am.  I have respect for you but I’ll admit it’s diminished since seeing this side of you.  It saddens me a bit.  I held you in the highest regard and not just related to earbuds—as a human fecund with earbud history and just generally a good guy.  I just wish you saw me with the same level of respect and stopped pushing.  It is nice to see you taking this lighter tone.  I do freely share things regarding driver design or commercial buds and working EQs, fit, driver size myths, etc...  I’m just forever unwilling to share my designs with people who will use them for their own gain.  Doesn’t seem so bad to me.  In fact one of your best friends does the same and I don’t see you complaining about Blur ever.  In fact you started a thread in praise of Blur.  It’s a double standard.  I want my praise thread now LOL.  If you don’t do it, well I’ll, I’ll, I’ll…. Eh, holding my breath sucks… or it doesn’t.


*BLUR*
Not meaning to argue. I just want to make it perfectly clear that *I did not create the Blur Earbuds Lovers thread*; it was created by *@siderak*.

And although indeed good friends, Blur and I don't exactly see eye-to-eye on this same subject (and a few others as well) and I have given him a hard time about it (them) in the past. I have incessantly encouraged Blur to join us and share his knowledge but he flat out refuses to and has completely refrained from participating on Head-Fi as says he is simply a rabid earbud hobbyist who doesn't consider himself a business and does not want to deal with the Member of the Trade rules and requirements. That said Blur earbuds are openly available for purchase... so anyone can buy them, open them up, examine them, and copy them freely. Once a "known customer" Blur is actually quite forthcoming about drivers, applied port systems, dampening, and sound signature tuning methods being used/applied to include keeping one updated about changes in the signature of specific models and series as well as sharing pictures of such.


*NOT PERSONAL*
My issue, only issue, was not so much your position (nor you as a person in any way, shape, or form) but rather *why you would share such an interesting graph but be completely unwilling to talk about with us... why offer it in the first place when you surely had to know that sort of bass response would spark curiosity and excitement from many of us**?*

Believe me, I was not the only one who was curious about your recently shared graphs... I simply was the only one willing to call you out on it... that is all. So no personal vendetta; no ulterior motive; no hidden agenda; no ill will was intended at all.

I honestly do understand your position and I do clearly see your perspective and do sincerely appreciate it on some level but not to the detriment of flathead earbuds. Please, you must acknowledge to some degree that taking such a *secretive staunch stance* does little for flathead earbuds as a transducer medium nor does it encourage any growth or improvement of currently available DIY drivers or the release of new models. Most especially, if we are not willing to openly discuss and compare said drivers and point out the potentiality of certain drivers over others.

I guess we will have to simply "agree to disagree" in this particular case.


*PRAISE THREAD*
I was completely unaware you were making and selling buds. Outstanding! Don't know how I missed that but please do let me know the name of your brand and models and I will duly add them to the timeline. I truly was not slighting you in the least nor refusing to add them to the timeline... I simply did not know you were selling your creations. I am more than willing to post and promote any/all earbuds that I hear about and with much enthusiasm! So again, please do not think I was being vindicative or something and ignoring your creations... they are indeed deserving of recognition and presentation to everyone.


----------



## FranQL

WoodyLuvr said:


> *BLUR*
> Not meaning to argue. I just want to make it perfectly clear that *I did not create the Blur Earbuds Lovers thread*; it was created by *@siderak*.
> 
> And although indeed good friends, Blur and I don't exactly see eye-to-eye on this same subject (and a few others as well) and I have given him a hard time about it (them) in the past. I have incessantly encouraged Blur to join us and share his knowledge but he flat out refuses to and has completely refrained from participating on Head-Fi as says he is simply a rabid earbud hobbyist who doesn't consider himself a business and does not want to deal with the Member of the Trade rules and requirements. That said Blur earbuds are openly available for purchase... so anyone can buy them, open them up, examine them, and copy them freely. Once a "known customer" Blur is actually quite forthcoming about drivers, applied port systems, dampening, and sound signature tuning methods being used/applied to include keeping one updated about changes in the signature of specific models and series as well as sharing pictures of such.
> ...



I really liked this answer.


----------



## FranQL

Sam L said:


> Those look amazing!



Thank you very much Sam, I made a brother for this one with hybrid shell, but I'm afraid that Fury will accuse me of exhibitionism!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

FranQL said:


> Thank you very much Sam, I made a brother for this one with hybrid shell, but I'm afraid that Fury will accuse me of exhibitionism!


You are safe... you just tell *@furyossa* that only clear shelled models are exhibitionists!


----------



## FranQL

WoodyLuvr said:


> You are safe... you just tell *@furyossa* that only clear shelled models are exhibitionists!


 +18 (exhibitionism again, but transparent are very pretty)


----------



## Gavanater7

What would you say the Hifiman Ananda of the earbud world? under 350$ preferably. DIY or chifi


----------



## WoodyLuvr

FranQL said:


> +18 (exhibitionism again, but transparent are very pretty)


Very nice! The bottom one with the blue cable in clear plastic is certainly eye-catching.


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> You two are like kids, you like to brag about your toys. Hermanos!


HERMANOS for life ( Shall I say that you are also ours? 😂 )


FranQL said:


> +18 (exhibitionism again, but transparent are very pretty)



Unfortunately, I don't like transparent shells, but I also leave the picture with the wonderful 130 bery ( Thx hermano @furyossa )


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 26, 2022)

Gavanater7 said:


> What would you say the Hifiman Ananda of the earbud world? under 350$ preferably. DIY or chifi


It is always extremely challenging to successfully recommend a complementary earbud, let alone any dynamic driver, that would prove to be a good match to a specific planar magnetic headphone. Even though earbuds typically do have quite excellent fast transient response, planar is very hard for earbuds to mimic.

If I had to hazard a guess it would be either the *NiceHCK EBX21* or perhaps the *FiiO EM5* that could get the closest. Perhaps a DIYer and/or Custom Modder could get closer.



​*NiceHCK EBX21*
_Primary_ = *Mid-Centric - Flat / Neutral* (bright leaning)
_Secondary (Strong) _= *Detailed & Critical *(can be too analytical or clinical; coming across as too cold sounding)
_Secondary (Weak)_ = *None*
_Tertiary (Complementing)_ = *Hard-Harsh *(too forward and aggressive sounding for some ears)
_Tertiary (Opposing) _= *U-Shaped? *(some people feel they have "balanced" tuning)


*Fiio EM5*
_Primary_ = *Mid-Centric - Flat / Neutral *(slightly bright/aggressive leaning)
_Secondary (Strong)_ = *Dark *(not muddy, boomy, nor distant sounding)
_Secondary (Weak)_ = *Airy - Bright*
_Tertiary (Complementing) _= *Hard-Harsh *(enhanced female vocals; *Thin & Tinny *(sometimes too aggressive)
_Tertiary (Opposing)_ = *Hard-Harsh *(though not overly bright/sibilant; enhances it's airy secondary characteristic and pulls back the darkness)


----------



## syazwaned

Has anyone tried this portable Tube amp for their earbuds  or iem?


----------



## Chessnaudio

syazwaned said:


> Has anyone tried this portable Tube amp for their earbuds  or iem?



That looks cool! Would love to know too.


----------



## ValSuki

Hey yall! Wanted to throw a quick update on some buds I've been working on, and some interesting works ive been trying here and there! 



Spoiler: Planar bud and its future



First off, that planar bud. What about it? Turns out, in order for it to follow the basics of an earbud, it needs to break away from the traditional single driver. It will 100% not sound good alone, judging by my tests of the planar drivers. ClieOS was, and is right in his testing beforehand as well, it requires a second driver in order to provide the full spectrum of sound. The problem with planars is that they provide bass with a seal, hence how planar iems are fit dependant and headphones absolutely need the cups to surround your ears. So, a driver to provide bass, most likely a DD, will be the solution to this. I know that breaks the purpose of a planar bud, but if you truly want this to work, you'll need to make some little changes, a hybrid! Now, because of this difficulty I need to pause it for a little bit with more research as I would like to do crossovers, but this should be possible with some friends I may know who have developed stuff in this field of work. This is going to be the last update on this project. I dont have any photos on me at the moment due to them basically being failures, but now having connections, this may be possible.





Spoiler: My current works



I have been working a whole bunch on some new stuff, learning about cables, shell design and ventilation on drivers, along with acoustics. I've re-done my old shell design, removing the mx500 vents and added the perfect amount for the tuning of my driver I use. Now this shell I am not making public to print, but the old version is printable for those who are curious. So why did I redesign the shell? Well, its not being printed anymore by me, but a manufacturer to be made out of lightweight aluminium. Not only is this durable, unique, and pretty dang cool, but its currently being shipped my way for inspection so I can verify a limited run batch to allow impressions out of this earbud. With very positive views on discord about the Valar v1, the Valar v2 will have its own unique style, packaging and a hand made cable. I have a lot of hope for these buds, theyre not here to take over the world or to be something to dominate the game, but I've always had a dream of making something thats personal and letting people do the same. People like BBB (newbsound), Wong and his blurs, tiny woodcraft and many many others who have been in the game longer for me have really inspired me to do my own work. As small as the earbud community is, ya'll are very strong, and its inspiring to see how long you all have been doing this for and keeping it alive. Here are some sneaky peaks of whats to come from me!











Bit of a long read if you look into it all, but you guys are wonderful people and keep doing what you are doing to keep this side of audio alive.


----------



## baskingshark

ValSuki said:


> Hey yall! Wanted to throw a quick update on some buds I've been working on, and some interesting works ive been trying here and there!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wishing you all the best with your project! Planars are indeed very ambitious and hard to implement.

But perhaps would it be easier to start off with a single DD, as per most earbuds? There is a reason why there aren't that many hybrids/BA/planars used in earbuds, cause earbuds lack a seal/fit of traditional headphones/IEMs. So it is very very ambitious and difficult to implement well, not to mention the exotic drivers might be more costly than cheaper single DD types. Even small changes of a few millimeters in the ear will skew the sound for hybrids.

SMABAT's recent release of the hybrid BA/DD SMABAT ST20 Pro was kind of a proof of concept, but it was super difficult to fit and is very costly. If it moved just a few mm, the sound became shouty and it required a very specific position in the ear to sound optimal.


----------



## Ronion

WoodyLuvr said:


> *BLUR*
> Not meaning to argue. I just want to make it perfectly clear that *I did not create the Blur Earbuds Lovers thread*; it was created by *@siderak*.
> 
> And although indeed good friends, Blur and I don't exactly see eye-to-eye on this same subject (and a few others as well) and I have given him a hard time about it (them) in the past. I have incessantly encouraged Blur to join us and share his knowledge but he flat out refuses to and has completely refrained from participating on Head-Fi as says he is simply a rabid earbud hobbyist who doesn't consider himself a business and does not want to deal with the Member of the Trade rules and requirements. That said Blur earbuds are openly available for purchase... so anyone can buy them, open them up, examine them, and copy them freely. Once a "known customer" Blur is actually quite forthcoming about drivers, applied port systems, dampening, and sound signature tuning methods being used/applied to include keeping one updated about changes in the signature of specific models and series as well as sharing pictures of such.
> ...


Blur would not tell me one thing.  Not even what the lines on his graphs represent, not how he made them, not what drivers he was using… nothing.  I was a well known customer and I didn’t blame him at all.  Didn’t make me the least bit upset.  I’d have to be some sort of parasite to be upset about that.  That’s his intellectual property as far as I see it and he can share or sell it to anyone/everyone he wants.  I don’t want to sound like I’m calling you out on that statement, but you are not stating a fact.  Maybe he didn’t do anything “new” or whatever you were covertly criticizing me for, but he was doing something unique that he didn’t want to share.  Blur buds made me DIY curious.  He made it seem very doable.  He’s tuning to a different level than the commercial buds I’ve bought.  I knew from talking to him that I had studied psychoacoustics more in depth than he had and I had already started a measurement rig years ago that was far beyond what any DIYer has along with a calibration curve.  Life had just got in the way before, but in truth if I put forth the effort, I knew I can do something special.  I needed a push from friends who were already DEEP into the rabbit hole.  They even pushed me to get the measurement rig completed.  From that point forward it was all study.  Methodically studying the acoustics of shells and their interactions with the ear itself.  In truth, if anyone reads my posts attempting to understand them, I have put out more useful information than I have ever received on here—and I’m not slighting your effort or intention at all.  I think that’s contributing to the improvement of buds far more than spoon feeding the hype crowd.  This may be too real and honest for people lucidly appreciate at the moment, but perhaps someone 3 years from now will read through this and a light will turn on…. I don’t think the effort is wasted.

You didn’t call me out on anything.  Maybe I’m just too thick to see it, but acting offended by my lack of overt transparency isn’t what I’d consider “calling me out“ by any means.  I’m sorry you thought it was—meaning I wish you didn’t see things that way.  I’m sure several people were curious, and if people I know and trust ask, l gladly share and have.  It’s not even one of my better bass buds.  I was just pointing out that buds didn’t have to conform to their stereotypes and later that small buds didn’t have less bass or sound thinner.  I have a lot of proof.  The right driver, the right tuning, all these downsides can be minimized to the level of inconsequential.  It’s a lot easier to make an earbud sound great, than it is an over-the-ear can small and portable or an IEM comfortable for hours and allow you to clearly hear your environment.    Maybe you were upset because you made a “god tier” list, and just a few weeks before I showed that graph, had said that all buds were midcentric….  It may have sounded like I was “calling you out“ about that by showing proof that you were wrong, but really I was just trying to provide evidence of hope for the earbud community and never really paid attention to what you were saying because I knew you were wrong.  I wasn’t calling you out.  If I wanted to call you out, I would have done so right then and there.  I didn’t to preserve your dignity.  You were one of the biggest helps to me when I was first looking into earbuds.  I respect that.  You led me to Blur too.  I should thank you for making me DIY curious.  

It’s absolutely obvious that I’m not selling buds.  Every time I post it’s made clear to everyone.  Patronizing isn’t a good look.  You are really bumming me out and I don’t want to be the person that brings this side of you out.  If I were selling earbuds, I would not think you were slighting me in the least.  I wouldn’t expect you to put me on any list.  That thought would have never crossed my mind to be honest.  That’s not me.  I wouldn’t worry about something like that.  I was just being silly because you haven’t attempted to publicly “call out” anyone else on the matter.  I thought I made that obvious.  I should also state it simply: I don’t care that you don’t ”call out” others either.  Nothing you do actually matters to me at this point.  You lost me as one of your fan club.

I’m totally fine disagreeing with your opinion.  I see your point.  I saw it long ago.  I considered it, but ultimately didn’t want to spoon feed the hype train crowd.  Give a man a fish and he eats for a day.  Teach a man to fish and he never goes hungry.  Hopefully you won’t keep nagging about it or take offense if I don’t respond.  Long winded posts are tedious and I could pedantically go through your points but the process wastes too much of my time.  Hopefully this casual, but lengthy reply is sufficient.


----------



## Ronion

FranQL said:


> I really liked this answer.


In truth, it was just more of the same.  Its tone is much better than his first one, but the whole line about “calling me out” and ‘it wasn’t anything personal’ are in utter conflict with each other.  As a native English speaker that’s obvious.  Then the patronizing toward the end let’s you see his true stripes, but that’s probably less obvious with the more pleasant tone.  Don’t be fooled.  It’s more of the same from him.  It’s why I’m so disappointed, but I’m glad he made an effort to sound pleasant.  I did my best to do the same.

I should probably apologize for being wrong about him starting the Blur thread.  I haven’t checked to see if I was wrong.  I just trust him that far.  It’s too easy to check.  He was just the one encouraged people to go read there and eventually his efforts for Blur landed him with the albatross he wears to this day.


----------



## Setmagic

I have 23°C in my room right now and I can't afford to use my full sized headphones anymore.

Global warming will force everyone to use buds insted of full sized ones.


----------



## samandhi (May 21, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> Wishing you all the best with your project! Planars are indeed very ambitious and hard to implement.
> 
> But perhaps would it be easier to start off with a single DD, as per most earbuds? There is a reason why there aren't that many hybrids/BA/planars used in earbuds, cause earbuds lack a seal/fit of traditional headphones/IEMs. So it is very very ambitious and difficult to implement well, not to mention the exotic drivers might be more costly than cheaper single DD types. Even small changes of a few millimeters in the ear will skew the sound for hybrids.
> 
> SMABAT's recent release of the hybrid BA/DD SMABAT ST20 Pro was kind of a proof of concept, but it was super difficult to fit and is very costly. If it moved just a few mm, the sound became shouty and it required a very specific position in the ear to sound optimal.


You are absolutely right about cost being high for something like that. DUNU did the BA + DD many years ago (Alpha 1), and they were $200 for something that I don't really consider TOTL. This was 7 or so years ago, and that was a lot more for earbuds than it seems to be nowadays. For those that had plenty of money to burn, it was mostly successful. But, for those that couldn't afford to be a beta tester (of sorts), it was prohibitive at best. DUNU themselves have stated that they really don't have much interest in furthering that route (or earbuds in general), though they still haven't discontinued the buds themselves. Heck, I probably wouldn't have bought them myself had I not run across an Amazon store that simply wanted to rid themselves of old stock, and discounted them to $39. 

Don't get me wrong, I like them a lot (especially at low volume), but just like the ST20, they are VERY strong in the typical BA ways, and I can only listen to them for a certain amount of time before they become very fatiguing. The answer? EQ! But, man! Do I have to EQ them a ton to get them so that I can listen to them for any amount of time.

As to planar buds, maybe this is the reason nobody has done it yet; it is just too hard and cost prohibitive?! I would LOVE to see them, but not JUST because they can be made. I would like them to also sound good, and if that is nigh on impossible without "smoke and mirrors", I can wait until such time as the tech makes it more possible.

As for myself, I am quite happy with the small collection I have built. There is a lot of diversity among the different pairs I have. Though there MAY be better sounding ones out there, I haven't had much desire to hear that, because between all the different signatures I have, one of them suites my instant sound desire and any given time. This is also why I haven't commented much on here as of late, as I haven't felt like I have had a lot to contribute at this point (rehashing the same buds I have had for a time now).

Though, I can comment on the Yincrow RW3000 insomuch as I have come up with the perfect PEQ (for my ears), that make them sound absolutely phenomenal and a more rounded overall sound; if a bit of a U. It was really surprising how much they rolled off the sub-bass on these. I had to move up (low shelf) 63Hz a whopping +10dB w/Q of 1.2 (wow) to get some decent sub-bass; though I would still not call them bassy. Also I did a low shelf at 150Hz of +3dB (Q 1.2) to add a bit more warmth. Then, after MUCH fiddling, I ended up with a (peak) -2dB with a Q of 4 at  4K. As I suspected, that tuning gave them a lot of their clarity, so I made a high shelf at 8K of +2dB (Q 1.2), and another high shelf at 10K of +3dB (Q 1.2). Oh and pregain I set to -6.8 dB.

Of course, with the advent of pretty advanced DSP in such apps as Neutron Music Player, and UAPP, I no longer do subtractive EQ (laziness), I simply lower the pregain (and use auto gain protection per song) and use dither w/sound shaping to help alleviate any clipping. This may not work as well if one is listening to a DAP that doesn't have as much power (such as a phone). You just may not have the headroom to do it.


----------



## mochill

samandhi said:


> You are absolutely right about cost being high for something like that. DUNU did the BA + DD many years ago (Alpha 1), and they were $200 for something that I don't really consider TOTL. This was 7 or so years ago, and that was a lot more for earbuds than it seems to be nowadays. For those that had plenty of money to burn, it was mostly successful. But, for those that couldn't afford to be a beta tester (of sorts), it was prohibitive at best. DUNU themselves have stated that they really don't have much interest in furthering that route (or earbuds in general), though they still haven't discontinued the buds themselves. Heck, I probably wouldn't have bought them myself had I not run across an Amazon store that simply wanted to rid themselves of old stock, and discounted them to $39.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I like them a lot (especially at low volume), but just like the ST20, they are VERY strong in the typical BA ways, and I can only listen to them for a certain amount of time before they become very fatiguing. The answer? EQ! But, man! Do I have to EQ them a ton to get them so that I can listen to them for any amount of time.
> 
> ...


I had a pair back then and also one not too long ago when they were $59 on Amazon. I like em


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 29, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Blur would not tell me one thing.


Perhaps, I should have stressed the *known* part more when I said "known customer" as Blur can be quite shy and humble... it takes a very long time for him to open up with people. Unfortunately, your experience was different which doesn't make the experience of many others any less true though. *@WoodyLuvr*, *@ian91*, *@Charlyro222*, *@Scuba Devils*, and* @qua2k *to name but a few of whom who have worked in friendly collaboration with Blur, openly discussing drivers, tuning, and cabling and offering our recommendations related to such, as well as, testing and listening to prototypes which resulted in a number of interesting new models and lines launched (well documented over on the _*Blur Earbuds Lovers*_ thread). But regardless, anyone can buy a Blur earbud and open it up. Learn from it. And with a bit of luck and hard work might be able to spark a development, an improvement, or another innovation from it.




Ronion said:


> Maybe you were upset because you made a “god tier” list, and just a few weeks before I showed that graph, had said that *all buds were midcentric*….  It may have sounded like I was “calling you out“ about that by showing proof that* you were wrong*, but really I was just trying to provide evidence of hope for the earbud community and *never really paid attention to what you were saying* because* I knew you were wrong*.  I wasn’t calling you out.  If I wanted to call you out, I would have done so right then and there.  I didn’t to preserve your dignity.  You were one of the biggest helps to me when I was first looking into earbuds.  I respect that.  You led me to Blur too.  I should thank you for making me DIY curious.


Honestly that never ever entered my mind even for one second nor would I ever think that your graphs were submitted (posted) and intended as "such proof". Earbud graphs at this point of time still tend to not prove or support such topics very well but the efforts that a few of you are currently making in this area may change that very soon! I just hope that you all can get along well enough to rally your knowledge and resources to make it happen. It would truly be awesome if it does.

Upset? No, I assure you that I am not. You or anyone else can correct or challenge anything I post; I will not take offense to it at all. I appreciate and welcome healthy discourse; heated debate; and constructive criticism. As long as it is not personal.

I fail to see the relationship between your FR graphs and my old god-tier list and my opinion regarding *earbud primary sound signatures*. How does a deep bass response on a FR graph disprove anything that I have said before? Are you saying that I don't think and/or have said that earbuds can't have good bass response? I never said nor do I believe that... hell, a few of the earbuds that I personally own are mid-centric but also very, very strong bass performers: *Blur 256 PK16 White Face*;* Blur OFC PK150 Wraith*; and *RikuBuds Berserker 1*. All of your FR graphs fit nicely into my chart without any issue or conflict. What am I missing here?

I believe you may very well have indeed misunderstood what I wrote as I didn't quite say "_*all buds were midcentric*_"... maybe because you were not paying attention! (only joking, I couldn't resist! ). Here are some of my most recent statements made about the subject:



> Correct; nearly every earbud that I have had the opportunity to listen to has exhibited a primary mid-centric sound signature and that is simply due to being of open-air design. With that said, there are indeed a number of earbuds with very strong secondary signatures that may and do pull their sound signature (tuning) to other areas.





> This is exactly why "W-Shape" needs to be used more often when it comes to describing the primary and/or secondary sound signatures of open-air earbuds which are more often than not mid-centric tuned in some manner...





> Although, flathead earbuds do exhibit strong/weak secondary and/or complementing/opposing tertiary signatures that may reach out towards U-Shaped and V-Shaped tuning, their primary signature are generally and heavily Mid-Centric which is inherent of and intrinsic to their open-air (open-back like) design.



Due to their driver-type and open-air design, earbud *primary sound signatures* do tend to be more often than not mid-centric. That is not to say that there are no outliers with opposing signatures (*Astrotec Lyra Nature Limited Edition whose primary is clearly Bright-Clinical*) nor that strong secondary and tertiary sound signatures can't drastically and dramatically pull the total sound signature away from the mid-centric area further into one of the four classic signature quadrants: _"*Dark*" (e.g. VE Zen 2); "*Warm*" (e.g. _Ks Bell-Ti 120); "*Bright*" (e.g. _Pislo_); or "*Aggressive*" (e.g. _Rose Maria I & II_).

I even created a chart which clearly shows that "Mid-Centric" and "Open-Air Flathead Earbuds" can be "Warm" or "Aggressive" and even "Dark" or "Bright" to some degree depending on where a earbud's primary plot falls.



Spoiler: TRANSDUCER MEDIUM TYPES



*

*​






Ronion said:


> It’s absolutely obvious that I’m not selling buds.  Every time I post it’s made clear to everyone.  Patronizing isn’t a good look.  You are really bumming me out and I don’t want to be the person that brings this side of you out.





Ronion said:


> I was just being silly because you haven’t attempted to publicly “call out” anyone else on the matter.  I thought I made that obvious.  I should also state it simply: I don’t care that you don’t ”call out” others either.  Nothing you do actually matters to me at this point.  You lost me as one of your fan club.


I was not patronizing nor being condescending.

My fault completely for misunderstanding that part and taking it far too literally. I honestly had thought your were telling my that you were at the stage now of selling earbuds and genuinely was all excited about that as some of the more recent DIY Earbuds that I have heard have been quite stellar (a big shout out to *@FranQL *and *@RikudouGoku *)! My mind isn't what it used to be and I thought I had completely missed your earbud launch. I completely missed *@irv003*'s Newbsound which I felt awful about and then to make matters even worse I kept forgetting to ask him for the model data to enter it on the timeline.

But this does beg the question then: _*If you are not selling and/or willing to share your earbud designs how will your designs improve and advance? I just don't get it.*_




Ronion said:


> I knew from talking to him that I had studied psychoacoustics more in depth than he had and I had already started a measurement rig years ago that was far beyond what any DIYer has along with a calibration curve.  Life had just got in the way before, but in truth if I put forth the effort, I knew I can do something special.  I needed a push from friends who were already DEEP into the rabbit hole.  They even pushed me to get the measurement rig completed.  From that point forward it was all study.  Methodically studying the acoustics of shells and their interactions with the ear itself.  In truth, if anyone reads my posts attempting to understand them, I have put out more useful information than I have ever received on here—and I’m not slighting your effort or intention at all.  I think that’s contributing to the improvement of buds far more than spoon feeding the hype crowd.


I think I get you point and humbly concur, that you have contributed a lot and I will never deny you that. But I was/am not addressing that but rather the reason *why you would wave a secret in our faces and then refuse to let us in on that secret*... the graphs and the associated driver(s) that produced them would have provided a very interesting discourse that would have benefited us all... yes, including a few pesky greedy trolls that don't share or give credit. That is all. Nothing more, nothing less.

FYI - Blur previously worked as a designer and technician for a well known IEM maker and is an aviation electrical technician by training... I think you might have incorrectly mistook his poor English skills and humbleness for a lack of audio science knowledge and expertise.




Ronion said:


> In truth, it was just more of the same. Its tone is much better than his first one, but the whole line about “calling me out” and ‘it wasn’t anything personal’ are in utter conflict with each other. As a native English speaker that’s obvious. Then the patronizing toward the end let’s you see his true stripes, but that’s probably less obvious with the more pleasant tone. Don’t be fooled. It’s more of the same from him. It’s why I’m so disappointed, but I’m glad he made an effort to sound pleasant. I did my best to do the same.


My tone has been the same throughout all my posts I was simply more direct in some than others. I never once personally attacked you or made it personal. I admit I was probably too frank and direct in the way that I "_called you out_" (*asking you to explain your actions/motives*), but I was simply questioning the reasoning behind your recent posts sharing graphs that you were in-turn so unwilling to discuss or answer questions about.

Do note that my posts were also indirectly aimed at those DIYers whom have been feuding with other DIYers recently over stolen designs and tuning methods and I was hoping to show them another perspective to consider and to end this secretive stance and feud as it does not help flathead earbuds as a medium one damn bit. Punishing the many for the actions of the few never solves anything... since when is DIYing an "industrial secret" activity? The spirit of DIYing is ultimately "sharing" or at least it was back in the my days DIYing.



Ronion said:


> I should probably apologize for being wrong about him starting the Blur thread. I haven’t checked to see if I was wrong. I just trust him that far. It’s too easy to check. He was just the one encouraged people to go read there and eventually his efforts for Blur landed him with the albatross he wears to this day.


No need to apologize for that, it was a simple mistake and I wasn't offended. I was only clearing the air regarding that particular subject due to the very reason that you so rightly mentioned... I don't need that albatross tightening any further around me'neck! LOL!



*@Ronion*  Just so you know, I really don't think ill of you nor do I respect you any less as an individual. Why should I? We simply had a disagreement, an argument, a conflict of opinion. It happens. It does not mean that we are now sworn enemies until death nor that we can no longer interact or think well of one another.

Peace brother.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Blur would not tell me one thing.  Not even what the lines on his graphs represent, not how he made them, not what drivers he was using… nothing.  I was a well known customer and I didn’t blame him at all.  Didn’t make me the least bit upset.  I’d have to be some sort of parasite to be upset about that.  That’s his intellectual property as far as I see it and he can share or sell it to anyone/everyone he wants.  I don’t want to sound like I’m calling you out on that statement, but you are not stating a fact.  Maybe he didn’t do anything “new” or whatever you were covertly criticizing me for, but he was doing something unique that he didn’t want to share.  Blur buds made me DIY curious.  He made it seem very doable.  He’s tuning to a different level than the commercial buds I’ve bought.  I knew from talking to him that I had studied psychoacoustics more in depth than he had and I had already started a measurement rig years ago that was far beyond what any DIYer has along with a calibration curve.  Life had just got in the way before, but in truth if I put forth the effort, I knew I can do something special.  I needed a push from friends who were already DEEP into the rabbit hole.  They even pushed me to get the measurement rig completed.  From that point forward it was all study.  Methodically studying the acoustics of shells and their interactions with the ear itself.  In truth, if anyone reads my posts attempting to understand them, I have put out more useful information than I have ever received on here—and I’m not slighting your effort or intention at all.  I think that’s contributing to the improvement of buds far more than spoon feeding the hype crowd.  This may be too real and honest for people lucidly appreciate at the moment, but perhaps someone 3 years from now will read through this and a light will turn on…. I don’t think the effort is wasted.
> 
> You didn’t call me out on anything.  Maybe I’m just too thick to see it, but acting offended by my lack of overt transparency isn’t what I’d consider “calling me out“ by any means.  I’m sorry you thought it was—meaning I wish you didn’t see things that way.  I’m sure several people were curious, and if people I know and trust ask, l gladly share and have.  It’s not even one of my better bass buds.  I was just pointing out that buds didn’t have to conform to their stereotypes and later that small buds didn’t have less bass or sound thinner.  I have a lot of proof.  The right driver, the right tuning, all these downsides can be minimized to the level of inconsequential.  It’s a lot easier to make an earbud sound great, than it is an over-the-ear can small and portable or an IEM comfortable for hours and allow you to clearly hear your environment.    Maybe you were upset because you made a “god tier” list, and just a few weeks before I showed that graph, had said that all buds were midcentric….  It may have sounded like I was “calling you out“ about that by showing proof that you were wrong, but really I was just trying to provide evidence of hope for the earbud community and never really paid attention to what you were saying because I knew you were wrong.  I wasn’t calling you out.  If I wanted to call you out, I would have done so right then and there.  I didn’t to preserve your dignity.  You were one of the biggest helps to me when I was first looking into earbuds.  I respect that.  You led me to Blur too.  I should thank you for making me DIY curious.
> 
> ...





WoodyLuvr said:


> Perhaps, I should have stressed the *known* part more when I said "known customer" as Blur can be quite shy and humble... it takes a very long time for him to open up with people. Unfortunately, your experience was different which doesn't make the experience of many others any less true though. *@WoodyLuvr*, *@ian91*, *@Charlyro222*, *@Scuba Devils*, and* @qua2k *to name but a few of whom who have worked in friendly collaboration with Blur, openly discussing drivers, tuning, and cabling and offering our recommendations related to such, as well as, testing and listening to prototypes which resulted in a number of interesting new models and lines launched (well documented over on the _*Blur Earbuds Lovers*_ thread). But regardless, anyone can buy a Blur earbud and open it up. Learn from it. And with a bit of luck and hard work might be able to spark a development, an improvement, or another innovation from it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Was beginning to wander if I needed to start looking for the: 



Sorry guys! I couldn't resist.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

samandhi said:


> Was beginning to wander if I needed to start looking for the:
> 
> Sorry guys! I couldn't resist.


* Touché good sir!*


----------



## Setmagic (May 21, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Was beginning to wander if I needed to start looking for the:
> 
> Sorry guys! I couldn't resist.


That's my sense of humor! 

My first impresion after reading mention of @FranQL was his reaction seeing his name next to...:



@Ronion Your english is too good for me for now, but im using google translator and always enjoy it!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Setmagic said:


> I have 23°C in my room right now and I can't afford to use my full sized headphones anymore.
> 
> Global warming will force everyone to use buds insted of full sized ones.


Completely concur! Living in the tropics completely destroyed any enjoyment of using over-the-ear headphones. Thank goodness for earbuds! My last pair of full sized headphones, SENN HD650, are stored away in their box.


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Completely concur! Living in the tropics completely destroyed any enjoyment of using over-the-ear headphones. Thank goodness for earbuds! My last pair of full sized headphones, SENN HD650, are stored away in their box.


Well, at least you have some good ones stored away. I have the HD700 myself..


----------



## Ronion

WoodyLuvr said:


> Perhaps, I should have stressed the *known* part more when I said "known customer" as Blur can be quite shy and humble... it takes a very long time for him to open up with people. Unfortunately, your experience was different which doesn't make the experience of many others any less true though. *@WoodyLuvr*, *@ian91*, *@Charlyro222*, *@Scuba Devils*, and* @qua2k *to name but a few of whom who have worked in friendly collaboration with Blur, openly discussing drivers, tuning, and cabling and offering our recommendations related to such, as well as, testing and listening to prototypes which resulted in a number of interesting new models and lines launched (well documented over on the _*Blur Earbuds Lovers*_ thread). But regardless, anyone can buy a Blur earbud and open it up. Learn from it. And with a bit of luck and hard work might be able to spark a development, an improvement, or another innovation from it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I guess I only spent approximately $450 on 3 buds with Blur and had many conversations.  Gave me the “colleague” price and all.  Seemed like we were cool.  Hard to say what he charges for others.  He did discuss signatures, cabling, and cosmetics…. but nothing further even in the slightest.  Now I’m bummed about him too if what you say is true.  I had purchased before a few of the guys you mention.  Glad I stopped spending that kind of money and started DIYing for a couple reasons in all honesty.

Anyway, I encourage people to do the same and DIY.  There’s absolutely no need to pay crazy prices.  Parts are cheap and the soldering is the easiest you can find.  Buds don’t have to be midcentric or expensive.  Several people reading this started DIYing and then weeks later went into business and likely outperforming most comparably priced commercial buds and with some style and customization.  It’s really not that hard.  I know my first few blew my mind and they’re still good on the grand scheme of things.  Of course friends led me to success.  The hard part is that last 10% and polishing sows’ ears into silk purses.  Many drivers are easy to tune well.  Rary’s guide has it all and he’s published it all to see.  More information than I had when I started.  The bud that caused all this discussion costs right at $20 all included and is easily better sounding than anything I purchased regardless of price though the Tingo TG38 still beats it in soundstage.


----------



## Ronion

Setmagic said:


> I have 23°C in my room right now and I can't afford to use my full sized headphones anymore.
> 
> Global warming will force everyone to use buds insted of full sized ones.


I’m ready to sell all my cans except 3 even though I never use them now.  My IEMs are going to go as well.  I have a collection of wide range, fairly neutral transducers that can be powered with 1V to as loud as I need to get, stay comfortable all day, and allow me to interact with my environment safely and easily.  It’s hard to find a reason to own much else.  I could sell or gift those last 3 cans and not regret it.


----------



## Setmagic

Ronion said:


> I guess I only spent approximately $450 on 3 buds with Blur and had many conversations.  Gave me the “colleague” price and all.  Seemed like we were cool.  Hard to say what he charges for others.  He did discuss signatures, cabling, and cosmetics…. but nothing further even in the slightest.  Now I’m bummed about him too if what you say is true.  I had purchased before a few of the guys you mention.  Glad I stopped spending that kind of money and started DIYing for a couple reasons in all honesty.
> 
> Anyway, I encourage people to do the same and DIY.  There’s absolutely no need to pay crazy prices.  Parts are cheap and the soldering is the easiest you can find.  Buds don’t have to be midcentric or expensive.  Several people reading this started DIYing and then weeks later went into business and likely outperforming most comparably priced commercial buds and with some style and customization.  It’s really not that hard.  I know my first few blew my mind and they’re still good on the grand scheme of things.  Of course friends led me to success.  The hard part is that last 10% and polishing sows’ ears into silk purses.  Many drivers are easy to tune well.  Rary’s guide has it all and he’s published it all to see.  More information than I had when I started.  The bud that caused all this discussion costs right at $20 all included and is easily better sounding than anything I purchased regardless of price though the Tingo TG38 still beats it in soundstage.


I'm totaly agree! 5$ DIY buds are good for everyday carry and 20-30$ are top of the line.


----------



## FranQL (May 21, 2022)

Setmagic said:


> I'm totaly agree! 5$ DIY buds are good for everyday carry and 20-30$ are top of the line.



if you multiply by 10 you get the price at which they will sell you....


you can spend that on a soldering iron, shells, cables, etc (R&D  ) and build yourself many buds that will surely surprise you in price, SQ, performance and because you have made them yourself.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> I’m ready to sell all my cans except 3 even though I never use them now.  My IEMs are going to go as well.  I have a collection of wide range, fairly neutral transducers that can be powered with 1V to as loud as I need to get, stay comfortable all day, and allow me to interact with my environment safely and easily.  It’s hard to find a reason to own much else.  I could sell or gift those last 3 cans and not regret it.


I still have a pretty diverse collection, and most are still in my rotation, except the ones that are labeled as retired. I still use them now and again, but those are mostly what I let my wife and grandkids listen to. I have gotten rid of of bunch (or they broke) but kept the ones I liked at that time (expensive or cheap means nothing to me for sound quality, except whether I can afford to get them at the time). 

Also keep in mind I listen to head gear at least 11 hours a day; one of the reasons I love earbuds so much because I can still hear the world outside. 



Spoiler



*Retired But Still Useable*

Bose AE2W (the ones using the AE2 phone with the BT dongle)
Sennheiser Momentum (original wired)
Sennheiser Momentum V2 (BT)
Marshall Monitor (original wired version)
Sennheiser PX360
Sennheiser RS140 (wireless RF headphones)
Bose OE2 (on ear)
B&W P5 (original wired version)
*Open Back*

Hifiman HE400S (version 2 w/3.5mm connectors at the cups)
Hifiman Deva BT (first version heaphones, version 2 non R2R version Bluemini)
Sennheiser HD700
On ear wrap-around earphones (that were stock with my RCA Lyra Music Jukebox 20GB) these still sound great
*IEMs*

iBasso IT07
iBasso IT01S
iBasso IT01
7Hz Timeless
Tinhifi P1
DUNU DK2001
Audiosense T800
CCA CRA x2
Xioami Piston II x2
*Earbuds*

Moondrop Chaconne
Yincrow RW2000
Yincrow RW3000
DUNU Alpha one
Rose Technics Maria II
Smabat M2s Pro (stock driver)
Smabat ST10S Pro gold (150 Ohm driver)
NiceHCK EB2S
Apple Classic Earbuds (gen 2)

*TWS*

Nuarl N6 Pro
Melomania Touch
Hifiman TWS600
Sony Linkbuds
*DAPs (still in use)*

iBasso DX300
iBasso DX160
Fiio X5 (original version)
Fiio X3 II
iPod Touch 4th Gen (only for motorcyle use nowadays)
iPod Touch 5th Gen (same as other iPod)


----------



## furyossa

samandhi said:


> I still have a pretty diverse collection, and most are still in my rotation, except the ones that are labeled as retired. I still use them now and again, but those are mostly what I let my wife and grandkids listen to. I have gotten rid of of bunch (or they broke) but kept the ones I liked at that time (expensive or cheap means nothing to me for sound quality, except whether I can afford to get them at the time).
> 
> Also keep in mind I listen to head gear at least 11 hours a day; one of the reasons I love earbuds so much because I can still hear the world outside.
> 
> ...


You have a great collection  .... and you definitely need more buds


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> I still have a pretty diverse collection, and most are still in my rotation, except the ones that are labeled as retired. I still use them now and again, but those are mostly what I let my wife and grandkids listen to. I have gotten rid of of bunch (or they broke) but kept the ones I liked at that time (expensive or cheap means nothing to me for sound quality, except whether I can afford to get them at the time).
> 
> Also keep in mind I listen to head gear at least 11 hours a day; one of the reasons I love earbuds so much because I can still hear the world outside.
> 
> ...


If you wouldn’t mind sharing, what do you think of those old Apple buds?  I haven’t heard them in approximately a decade and have very little recollection of them.  

fantastic collection BTW!

I loved my iPod Touch.  I still want to buy another just for its pocket-ability and the fact that you can put Pure Piano on it, connect it to a keyboard and earbuds and go wild.


----------



## samandhi (May 21, 2022)

furyossa said:


> You have a great collection  .... and you definitely need more buds


Thank you! Who doesn't? 


Ronion said:


> If you wouldn’t mind sharing, what do you think of those old Apple buds?  I haven’t heard them in approximately a decade and have very little recollection of them.
> 
> fantastic collection BTW!
> 
> I loved my iPod Touch.  I still want to buy another just for its pocket-ability and the fact that you can put Pure Piano on it, connect it to a keyboard and earbuds and go wild.


I don't mind at all. I have to say that they really did those things right IMO. They have less bass than today's buds, but the tech wasn't there, so in reality they are quite addictive to listen to. The sound is rounded very nicely (except sub-bass), and the presence region is nowhere near aggressive like they like to tune them by default nowadays. Honestly though once you get used to the lack of bass (it is there just very recessed/rolled off), they are terrific IMO. They are airy, but not overly bright. I wouldn't purposely pay much money to replace them if they broke, but I don't plan on getting rid of them any time soon either.. 

Thanks very much!

Yeah, they fit on my bike perfectly, and for a bike stereo, they sound really good. For listening to on head gear, I have a hard time going back to .mp3s from hi res on the newer DAPs. Though I suppose I COULD get alac files. But, since everything I have is flac or higher (except those last .mp3 holdouts from those Napster, and Kazaa days ), I would have to re-purchase a LOT of music (or I could probably RockBox one of em'). I actually still have my iPod Photo, but it needs a new battery. Now that one (IMO, and others as well from reading about it) had some of the best sound for its time.. IIRC it used a good ole' Wolfsen DAC (but my memory might faulty here).


----------



## samandhi (May 21, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Though, I can comment on the Yincrow RW3000 insomuch as I have come up with the perfect PEQ (for my ears), that make them sound absolutely phenomenal and a more rounded overall sound; if a bit of a U. It was really surprising how much they rolled off the sub-bass on these. I had to move up (low shelf) 63Hz a whopping +10dB w/Q of 1.2 (wow) to get some decent sub-bass; though I would still not call them bassy. Also I did a low shelf at 150Hz of +3dB (Q 1.2) to add a bit more warmth. Then, after MUCH fiddling, I ended up with a (peak) -2dB with a Q of 4 at 4K. As I suspected, that tuning gave them a lot of their clarity, so I made a high shelf at 8K of +2dB (Q 1.2), and another high shelf at 10K of +3dB (Q 1.2). Oh and pregain I set to -6.8 dB.


In case anyone that has the RW3000 and might want to give this "reshaping" a bit of a whirl, I'll put in in such a way as to make it easy to look at:
*PEQ Neutron Settings*

*63Hz*   = Low Shelf      *Gain* = +10dB  *Q* = 1.2
*150Hz* = Low Shelf      *Gain* = +3dB    *Q* = 1.2
*4Khz*   = Peak              *Gain* = -2dB     *Q* = 4
*8Khz*   = High Shelf     *Gain* = +2dB    *Q* = 1.2
*10Khz* = High Shelf     *Gain* = +3dB    *Q* = 1.2
*Pregain* = -6.8
The pregain may need to be a bit higher depending on the bass in your music, but I normally use the "auto gain" feature in Neutron anyhow, and set to reset per song.


----------



## shoui catemoji (May 22, 2022)

I've been using the K'searphone LBBS for about a week, they have a lot of tonality problems that can be improved with EQ. I don't hear these buds as very neutral at all, they are rather W shaped. (mid bass/fundamental frequencies bloat, harsh shouty mids, peaky treble). I know the sound changes a lot depending on how you wear them, and I am wearing them so they sound their best.

After EQ these earbuds sound good, the imaging was already interesting which made it nice for acoustic music.

Here is the EQ curve for the LBBS, this makes it sound like a "true neutral monitor" to my ears. Note that the area highlighted in crimson is a no guarantee zone, you will hear the high frequencies very differently due to ear canal resonances. For me, I get a resonance peak around 8k on the LBBS (the 6k stabbing peak is still real), for you it may be different. I also hear the LBBS as having essentially ripped out air frequencies, so I put a high shelf filter to compensate for that.




edit: i am using full foams on the earbuds btw


----------



## BCool

So after some comparison and the very scientific method of having one bud in each ear, I've come to the conclusion that the Penon PACs and the Yincrow X6 have an almost identical sound signature. They do have slight differences though, with the X6 having a little more extension/emphasis up top and the PACs a little more extension at the low end.

Overall, it's hard to recommend against the X6 if you're looking to find some earbuds with bass, especially at the low price they're at. But if you're looking for even better bass, as well a detachable cable, the PAC are good choice.


----------



## Blueshound24 (May 22, 2022)

I posted this in the "_Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon_?" thread.
I didn't get any response, probably because it wasn't an "IEM" question, so I wanted to post here as well.



I'm trying to find a decent TWS earbud, (not IEM), because I need some buds for situational awareness.

I have considered: Samsung Galaxy Buds Live, SoundPEATS Air3, FIIL CC2, Sabbat x12 Ultra or Sabbat x12 Pro, etc.

I tried to find out what the difference is between the Sabbat x12 *Pro* vs Sabbat x12 *Ultra*, and couldn't find much. One article said the 'Pro' may not have Apt X? Anyone know the differences?


Any recommendations?
TIA

I am probably not interested in any apple products because I use Android and Windows.


----------



## assassin10000

Blueshound24 said:


> I posted this in the "_Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon_?" thread.
> I didn't get any response, probably because it wasn't an "IEM" question, so I wanted to post here as well.
> 
> 
> ...



X12 pro sbc/aac only.
X12 ultra sbc/aac/aptx and wireless charging
Vooplay is also made by sabbat, and is the generation after the x12 models.


----------



## Blueshound24 (May 22, 2022)

assassin10000 said:


> X12 pro sbc/aac only.
> X12 ultra sbc/aac/aptx and wireless charging
> Vooplay is also made by sabbat, and is the generation after the x12 models.



Thank you. I'll pass on choosing the x12 Pro then.
Any recommendations on these choices, or others?
Samsung Galaxy Buds Live, SoundPEATS Air3, FIIL CC2, Sabbat x12 Ultra or Vooplay.


----------



## samandhi

Blueshound24 said:


> Thank you. I'll pass on choosing the x12 Pro then.
> Any recommendations on these choices, or others?
> Samsung Galaxy Buds Live, SoundPEATS Air3, FIIL CC2, Sabbat x12 Ultra or Vooplay.


Depending on the implementation, AAC could sound very good (even on android). For instance; and this is also my recommendation for TWS earbuds, the Sony Linkbuds are actual earbuds (non-directional, classic flatheads). Though I DO want to warn you that some people find them terrific, and others find them to not fit right because they are a different type of animal. They are basically a flathead earbud with circuitry attached. Even with those that they don't fit correctly, it isn't that they feel bad or anything like that, they just don't sound right. These are very fit dependend (as you might guess with a classic flathead earbud). But it also isn't so much that they don't fit, but how they are inserted that makes the difference IMO.

I'm surprised there was no answer on that other thread about this. There are quite a few people over there that have some of those, including the Linkbuds, and most love them. As for me, I find them to be fantastic, and it has the best implementation of AAC that I have heard thus far (absolutely shocked me, and I almost passed on them). I have not been able to discern the difference in playback quality between the codecs on something like this and some others I have that are AptX or even LDAC. 

The battery only lasts for about 5 hours, but it only takes about 10 minutes to give 1 1/2 hour charge, and 30 minutes to totally recharge them, so there is that also. As to the others you mentioned on your list, I have not heard any of them, so I can't comment at this time. All of my other TWS are IEM style. Most of the folks on the other thread make no distinction between IEM and earbud for TWS. To them (and most of Google) all TWS are called earbuds.


----------



## Blueshound24

samandhi said:


> Depending on the implementation, AAC could sound very good (even on android). For instance; and this is also my recommendation for TWS earbuds, the Sony Linkbuds are actual earbuds (non-directional, classic flatheads). Though I DO want to warn you that some people find them terrific, and others find them to not fit right because they are a different type of animal. They are basically a flathead earbud with circuitry attached. Even with those that they don't fit correctly, it isn't that they feel bad or anything like that, they just don't sound right. These are very fit dependend (as you might guess with a classic flathead earbud). But it also isn't so much that they don't fit, but how they are inserted that makes the difference IMO.
> 
> I'm surprised there was no answer on that other thread about this. There are quite a few people over there that have some of those, including the Linkbuds, and most love them. As for me, I find them to be fantastic, and it has the best implementation of AAC that I have heard thus far (absolutely shocked me, and I almost passed on them). I have not been able to discern the difference in playback quality between the codecs on something like this and some others I have that are AptX or even LDAC.
> 
> The battery only lasts for about 5 hours, but it only takes about 10 minutes to give 1 1/2 hour charge, and 30 minutes to totally recharge them, so there is that also. As to the others you mentioned on your list, I have not heard any of them, so I can't comment at this time. All of my other TWS are IEM style. Most of the folks on the other thread make no distinction between IEM and earbud for TWS. To them (and most of Google) all TWS are called earbuds.



I had not heard of the Linkbuds and I actually just received some response on the other thread, and the LInkbud was mentioned and recommended. They have an intriguing design and I will look into them. One commented that the Linkbuds were more balanced sounding than the Samsung Galaxy Buds Live and considered the latter more V shaped.


----------



## Gifting

@Ronion *"The bud that caused all this discussion costs right at $20 all included and is easily better sounding than anything I purchased regardless of price though the Tingo TG38 still beats it in soundstage."*

May I ask which earbud that might be?


----------



## nofarewell

Hey people, I am interested in recent buds, but fairly"new" to the topic as I mostly collect classic Sonys/Aiwas and not really aware of today's stuff. What do you recommend that can deliver or even outperform the classics? Doesn't have to be expensive of course, referring to the recent topic.  What I like is transparency, freq balance, and soundstage as wide as it can get. Thanks in advance 😎


----------



## WoodyLuvr

nofarewell said:


> Hey people, I am interested in recent buds, but fairly"new" to the topic as I mostly collect classic Sonys/Aiwas and not really aware of today's stuff. What do you recommend that can deliver or even outperform the classics? Doesn't have to be expensive of course, referring to the recent topic.  What I like is transparency, freq balance, and soundstage as wide as it can get. Thanks in advance 😎


The following checklist will better help us help you: *'THE CHECKLIST' FOR FLATHEAD EARBUD RECOMMENDATION REQUESTS*

My no longer updated and/or supported *Earbud God-Tier List* can be found *here* it may also prove useful or not.


----------



## nofarewell

WoodyLuvr said:


> The following checklist will better help us help you: *'THE CHECKLIST' FOR FLATHEAD EARBUD RECOMMENDATION REQUESTS*
> 
> My no longer updated and/or supported *Earbud God-Tier List* can be found *here* it may also prove useful or not.


Thanks a lot WoodyLuvr


----------



## WoodyLuvr

nofarewell said:


> Thanks a lot WoodyLuvr


You are very welcome! Welcome to the rabbit hole! Give us some more info to better understand your situation and needs and a number of us will surely respond back with some recommendations and guidance. Cheers!


----------



## assassin10000

Blueshound24 said:


> Thank you. I'll pass on choosing the x12 Pro then.
> Any recommendations on these choices, or others?
> Samsung Galaxy Buds Live, SoundPEATS Air3, FIIL CC2, Sabbat x12 Ultra or Vooplay.



I've had the x12 pro, x12 ultra and buds live.

Of them I prefer the Buds live, especially once EQ'ed to my preferences.


I haven't heard the sony linkbuds yet. I've been hesitating as they don't have wireless charging, which is a feature I've really come to want.


----------



## nofarewell

WoodyLuvr said:


> The following checklist will better help us help you: *'THE CHECKLIST' FOR FLATHEAD EARBUD RECOMMENDATION REQUESTS*
> 
> My no longer updated and/or supported *Earbud God-Tier List* can be found *here* it may also prove useful or not.


Thanks very much for this! According to it, I made a more detailed list of the desired features:

*budget* _ -_ $10-50 as of now, but I gladly take much more expensive recommendations as well, as I'll plan to buy in the future when I'll have more money. 
*source* - Sony NWZ-A829. Yes, not the best, but I like it. I'll upgrade in due time. I have a Fiio Mont Blanc amp, so power can be higher. I plan to buy an Opus series dap in the future, and if I'll really have he resources one day - a Sony WM1Z. The A829 can bring a surprisingly good soundstage though, it even beats the Sony NW-ZX100 in that department imho.
*preferred connection* 3.5 TRS. Other variations are OK, but this should be a stock option.
*listening level & session length* I listen both loud and silent, sometimes for hours. It should take higher volumes as well. For me higher volume means greater staging too (well in good cases) , so I don't shy away from experiencing that.
*listening environment* - everywhere. Mostly at home, on the streets, even in nature sometimes.
*preferred music genre - *From classical to technical death metal. I listen to Dead Can Can Dance a lot these days. 
*preferred shell and foam-cushion type* I like the classic grill look (Sony MDR-E series, like the MDR-E 262 for example), and I love thinner, but more thicker/dense foams. I'd like to know where can I get those, if you can help with that too, I'd be pleased.
*preferred sound signature i* I like a warmer presentation, the main thing (where the older ones are so good) is how the mids come to "light" without fatiguing the experience and how dynamics and soundstage each has it's own quality. The bass is there, even strong, but it doesn't "ruin" anything, it won't sacrifice the mids and the highs. Its like listening to "Respect" from Aretha Franklin on some good gear. Earbud References: Sony MDR-E484, Aiwa HP-V99. Sony MDR-E252.
*preferred sound signature ii* I don't really like recent headphones, but the AKG K-1000 should be good. Also the legendary Sony MDR-R10, which I still haven't had the opportunity to listen to, but according to some reviews, it should be my holy grail in headphones. WoodyLuvr knows how I'm a maniac of older on ears, the Sony MDR-M55 is a clear reference. If that sound could be found in a bud, it would be fantastic. I love the acoustically engineered buds, so any such innovations are welcome (stage enhancing solutions, reflex tubes and such, love those  )
*preferred brand* Not aware; I'm asking around to get to know more in the first place. 
*any special need and/or consideration - *it should be wired with no extras (no mic, volume, etc.) - should have a bigger driver (around 16mm, but not necessary if other expectations are met) I like the OFC Litz solid covered cables of the past, but again like with the driver size, I am willing to let this a less important aspect if otherwise the bud can meet the other, eg. sonic expectations. So the multi-core, replaceable option is absolutely OK as well.
Thanks in advance


----------



## FranQL

nofarewell said:


> Thanks very much for this! According to it, I made a more detailed list of the desired features:
> 
> *budget* _ -_ $10-50 as of now, but I gladly take much more expensive recommendations as well, as I'll plan to buy in the future when I'll have more money.
> *source* - Sony NWZ-A829. Yes, not the best, but I like it. I'll upgrade in due time. I have a Fiio Mont Blanc amp, so power can be higher. I plan to buy an Opus series dap in the future, and if I'll really have he resources one day - a Sony WM1Z. The A829 can bring a surprisingly good soundstage though, it even beats the Sony NW-ZX100 in that department imho.
> ...




Creative Aurvana Air is my recomendation


----------



## Ronion

Gifting said:


> @Ronion *"The bud that caused all this discussion costs right at $20 all included and is easily better sounding than anything I purchased regardless of price though the Tingo TG38 still beats it in soundstage."*
> 
> May I ask which earbud that might be?


One of my homemade ones.


----------



## Gifting

Ronion said:


> One of my homemade ones.


Ah okay. I don’t know why my mind went to a 20 dollar earbud from a store. That makes sense. 
I bought some Rikubuds recently, just have to assemble them. Maybe I’ll get into real DIY afterwards.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 27, 2022)

FranQL said:


> Creative Aurvana Air is my recomendation


*2009 - Creative Aurvana Air (32Ω)*

What a great recommendation *@FranQL*... a real blast from the past and most surprisingly this earhook-type earphone (earbud) does appear to be still readily available NOS/NIB many places online which I find incredible! As it has been so long ago I don't recall the signature any longer but I DO RECALL how nicely those earhook earbuds were made and how comfortable (lightweight and very fit-forming) they were to wear.



nofarewell said:


> Thanks very much for this! According to it, I made a more detailed list of the desired features:
> 
> *budget* _ -_ $10-50 as of now, but I gladly take much more expensive recommendations as well, as I'll plan to buy in the future when I'll have more money.
> *source* - Sony NWZ-A829. Yes, not the best, but I like it. I'll upgrade in due time. I have a Fiio Mont Blanc amp, so power can be higher. I plan to buy an Opus series dap in the future, and if I'll really have he resources one day - a Sony WM1Z. The A829 can bring a surprisingly good soundstage though, it even beats the Sony NW-ZX100 in that department imho.
> ...


Another consideration for you:

*Shozy 大黑 Big Black (BK) Stardust (16Ω; 2006 NTT DoCoMo)*


Spoiler: 2016 - Shozy 大黑 Big Black (BK) Stardust (16Ω)






_Primary_ = *Mid-Centric - Flat / Neutral* (warm leaning)
_Secondary (Strong) _= *Warm*
_Secondary (Strong) _= *Detailed*
_Secondary (Weak)_ = *Bass *(not basshead level but very present and detailed)
_Secondary (Weak)_ = *Airy* (not bright nor sibilant in any way)
_Tertiary (Complementing)_ = *Smooth*
_Tertiary (Complementing) = _*Inverted U-Shaped* (some may hear a "balanced" tuning instead)
_Tertiary (Opposing) _= *U-Shaped *(while others may hear a slightly mid-forward tuning)


*SPECIAL NOTE ABOUT THE SOUND SIGNATURE CHART*
It is crucial that you do not interpret this chart two-dimensionally but rather three-dimensionally using all axes offered. Optimally, this would be best presented as a sphere but in turn that would make it difficult to clearly see and read all the labels and sections. Thus, we are limited to two-dimensions for the sake of presentation and clarity. Please note that I tried my best to stick to the "classic" (more basic) sound signature & tuning characteristic definitions as used by recording professionals & audio engineers. More *here*.


Although of a smaller driver design (PK 14.8mm) these exhibit an excellent "WARM" strong secondary signature but still have the fast transient response and airy high capability needed for very dynamic music genres and recordings. They also exhibit another strong secondary sound signature that reaches out to "DETAILED". It is the "go to" earbud for a friend of mine in Bangkok who is quite the heavy metal fiend, as well as a lover of punk rock and symphonic music. Their primary sound signature is nearly neutral, mid-centric, and ever so slightly on the warm-side. Some find them balanced sounding ("U-Shaped") while others, like myself, find them to be slightly mid-forward sounding almost like an upside down "Inverted U-Shape" signature (not quite as strong as a classic "W-Shape" though). Overall they have a "classical golden age earbud" tuning that is not too far off from being reference with most music genres and are quite natural and airy sounding while still being warm and smooth.

These have recently been re-released (reissued) in their original form using the original brown cable and not dark grey cable of the later version. The older original version is ever so slightly warmer sounding and some people found them to be less dry (lifeless) than the newer version (which I never noticed but others do have better ears than mine).

https://penonaudio.com/shozy-bk-black.html


----------



## nofarewell

FranQL said:


> Creative Aurvana Air is my recomendation


Thanks! How would you describe the sound? I guess "Air" has to do something with it.


----------



## nofarewell

WoodyLuvr said:


> Another consideration for you:
> 
> *2016 - Shozy 大黑 Big Black (BK) Stardust (16Ω; 2006 NTT DoCoMo)*


Thanks very much, I think this should be very close to what I am searching for  - according to the reviews and description.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

nofarewell said:


> Thanks very much, I think this should be very close to what I am searching for  - according to the reviews and description.


I just added a sound chart to that previous post that may better illustrate the sound signature.


----------



## baskingshark

Interesting, some first impressions from someone who bought the NiceHCK B70 Waifu earbud:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/517665269706033/posts/564519461687280/






Anybody bought this? I gave it a miss this round, but tuning looks quite promising.


----------



## samandhi

Blueshound24 said:


> I had not heard of the Linkbuds and I actually just received some response on the other thread, and the LInkbud was mentioned and recommended. They have an intriguing design and I will look into them. One commented that the Linkbuds were more balanced sounding than the Samsung Galaxy Buds Live and considered the latter more V shaped.


They are fairly balanced sounding, which is counter to their normal "dark" signature. I have not heard the Buds Live, but can believe that they are V considering they were made for the masses (which is to say more of a Harmon FR, which tends to be a V). Nothing wrong with that if that is your thing though. 


FranQL said:


> Creative Aurvana Air is my recomendation


I still can't find those here in the US...  If I DO find them (not on Fleabay) I will most likely be getting them, especially for the price I am seeing them in Spain new ($47).


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 21, 2022)

nofarewell said:


> *preferred shell and foam-cushion type* I like the classic grill look (Sony MDR-E series, like the MDR-E 262 for example), and *I love thinner, but more thicker/dense foams. I'd like to know where can I get those, if you can help with that too, I'd be pleased.*
> Thanks in advance



The post *All About Flathead Earbud Cushions* can be found *here*.

*HongKong Hiegi Electronics Co., Limited*

A number of us highly recommend the denser *Hiegi *foams... I never had a dud and they seem to fend off dry rot well. Probably a slightly different material used (or maybe finishing spray applied) than all the other brands I have experienced.

Always a pleasure to receive Hiegi packages in the mail!



Spoiler: HongKong Hiegi Electronics Co., Limited_White & Black Flathead Earbud Foam Cushions


----------



## baskingshark

WoodyLuvr said:


> The post *All About Flathead Earbud Cushions* can be found *here*.
> A number of us highly recommend the denser *Hiegi *foams:
> 
> 
> ...



Heigi are my most favourite earbud foams, but I have been trying to find a shop that sells them in bulk.

The 12 in this packaging is not enough! Anyone knows where to get mooooooooooore in a package?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

baskingshark said:


> Heigi are my most favourite earbud foams, but I have been trying to find a shop that sells them in bulk.
> 
> The 12 in this packaging is not enough! Anyone knows where to get mooooooooooore in a package?


I have never seen them offered in larger quantities than this. If you do happen to source a large count package please do let us all know!


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> Heigi are my most favourite earbud foams, but I have been trying to find a shop that sells them in bulk.
> 
> The 12 in this packaging is not enough! Anyone knows where to get mooooooooooore in a package?


That is all that I have seen them come in as well...


----------



## samandhi

Also, watch out for the fakes:



Spoiler: Fake & Real Foams



Fake!




Real


----------



## DBaldock9

baskingshark said:


> Heigi are my most favourite earbud foams, but I have been trying to find a shop that sells them in bulk.
> 
> The 12 in this packaging is not enough! Anyone knows where to get mooooooooooore in a package?



I know that Penon sells the Hiegi foams - so you might contact them, to see if they can offer a bulk ordering deal.


----------



## nofarewell

WoodyLuvr said:


> I just added a sound chart to that previous post that may better illustrate the sound signature.


Thanks for the chart, very useful! Also for the foam ideas. The right foam can dramatically change the sound to the better, I have experienced this phenomenon firsthand.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 25, 2022)

*@RikudouGoku* alerted me that *two (2) new flathead models* are coming soon from *FiiO*! The FF3 (~JUNE 2022) and FF5 (~SEPT 2022). Please see *@JamesFiiO ( @FiiO ) *post *here*. More details are forthcoming at coming products launch event.


----------



## Blueshound24 (May 25, 2022)

If anyone is interested in EBAY refurbished Linkbuds, I just posted this on the "Deals" thread as well.

Sony LinkBuds Truly Wireless Earbuds $82 *EBAY REFURBISHED* / MRSP $180
https://www.ebay.com/itm/313939292787

These are the earbud style, not the "S", IEM version.


----------



## nofarewell

WoodyLuvr said:


> WoodyLuvr said:
> 
> 
> > *@RikudouGoku* alerted me that *two (2) new flathead models* are coming soon from *FiiO*! The FF3 (~JUNE 2022) and FF5 (~SEPT 2022). Please see *@JamesFiiO ( @FiiO ) *post *here*. More details are forthcoming at coming products launch event.
> ...


----------



## digititus (May 25, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Stoked! Is the EM5 any good? I heard it was inspired by the V99.



I love the EM5. Others are not so impressed. Suits my music collection perfectly @nofarewell


----------



## gazzington

digititus said:


> I love the EM5. Others are not so impressed. Suits my music collection perfectly @nofarewell


I love the em5 too. It’s a great earbud


----------



## Bloos

mochill said:


> I have ordered it


Did you get a chance to listen to the Nicehck B70? 
How are they, vs B40 or EB2S?


----------



## Sam L

gazzington said:


> I love the em5 too. It’s a great earbud


Yep, same. One of my favorites. Takes eq fantastically well too.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 26, 2022)

digititus said:


> I love the EM5. Others are not so impressed. Suits my music collection perfectly @nofarewell





gazzington said:


> I love the em5 too. It’s a great earbud





Sam L said:


> Yep, same. One of my favorites. Takes eq fantastically well too.


Concur whole heartedly. The *FiiO EM5* proudly sat on my *Earbud God-Tier List* for good reason!

*@nofarewell*
The *FiiO EM5* is a nicely performing and great sounding earbud but they have had some concerning QA/QC issues which do seem to have been fully rectified by FiiO (FiiO is actually very good at responding to such problems so not surprised if they have been fully solved and corrected). Just a "head's up!" on that so you are aware of it.

That said, I would humbly offer that the FiiO EM5, like the Moondrop Chaconne, is not an all-rounder per se but rather a one or two-trick pony. It is wonderful for specific music genres and/or preference'd signature tastes but will fail miserably for all-use purposes. It is most definitely a nice accompanying earbud to have in your collection for specific roles. Also, those hyper-sensitive to certain peaks in the upper midrange and treble may find the EM5 fatiguing as it may exhibit some "bright" and "aggressive" secondary sound characteristics especially with longer listening sessions and with specific music genres and certain recordings. I really liked them though but personally found them quite fatiguing and a little lacking in timbre compared to some other God-Tier models... I am very picky about that though so take that with a grain of salt as it is simply a personal preference.

Here is the godfather of earbuds *@ClieOS* take on the *FiiO EM5*... he thinks very well of them.
*




*



Spoiler: FiiO EM5 Sound Chart






*Fiio EM5*
_Primary_ = *Mid-Centric - Flat / Neutral *(slightly bright/aggressive leaning)
_Secondary (Strong)_ = *Dark *(not muddy or boomy, nor distant sounding)
_Secondary (Weak)_ = *Airy - Bright*
_Tertiary (Complementing) _= *Hard-Harsh *(enhanced female vocals; *Thin & Tinny *(sometimes too aggressive)
_Tertiary (Opposing)_ = *Hard-Harsh *(though not overly bright/sibilant; enhances it's airy secondary characteristic and pulls back the darkness)


----------



## yaps66

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur whole heartedly. The *FiiO EM5* proudly sat on my *Earbud God-Tier List* for good reason!
> 
> *@nofarewell*
> The *FiiO EM5* is a nicely performing and great sounding earbud but they have had some concerning QA/QC issues which do seem to have been fully rectified by FiiO (FiiO is actually very good at responding to such problems so not surprised if they have been fully solved and corrected). Just a "head's up!" on that so you are aware of it.
> ...


Nice to see so much love for the EM5! Pretty underrated and certainly benefits from whatever burn-in (driver or brain). Scales well too!


----------



## Blanchot

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur whole heartedly. The *FiiO EM5* proudly sat on my *Earbud God-Tier List* for good reason!
> 
> *@nofarewell*
> The *FiiO EM5* is a nicely performing and great sounding earbud but they have had some concerning QA/QC issues which do seem to have been fully rectified by FiiO (FiiO is actually very good at responding to such problems so not surprised if they have been fully solved and corrected). Just a "head's up!" on that so you are aware of it.
> ...


May I ask you what genres you like/dislike listening to with the EM5? I just bought these and haven't really had the time to give them a thorough listen. I've mostly been struggeling with the foamies


----------



## mt877

Since EM5 talk is happening right now, here's my mini FiiO EM5 vs Yincrow RW-3000 post. Both are excellent buds when paired with appropriate source.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 26, 2022)

Blanchot said:


> May I ask you what genres you like/dislike listening to with the EM5? I just bought these and haven't really had the time to give them a thorough listen. I've mostly been struggeling with the foamies


I believe that the FiiO EM5 is specially tuned for softer music genres such as ambient electronic; acoustic works (the fewer instruments the better); easy listening; and female vocals (Enya, light Jazz, soft R&B, Adele, Celine Dion). While fast, loud, and overly dynamic types of music (e.g. symphonic & large orchestral classical; Heavy Metal; Punk; EDM; House; Trap; Hip Hop; Hard Rock) tends to really excite the EM5 which some people may find quite fatiguing (too sibilant or aggressive). Also, anything recorded or re-mastered during the "Loudness War" late 90s to 2000s (e.g. Modern Music such as Pop and Rock) can also be quite fatiguing and thus why overall I don't think the EM5 is a great all-rounder. Nonetheless, for certain soft genres they are great!

Funny thing is that the FiiO EM5 is definitely tuned for Asian Female Poison. It has a strong complementing tertiary sound signature reaching out towards Hard-Harsh in the upper midrange and lower treble which offers enhanced female vocals (Female Poison) but along with that can come some aggressiveness thin & tinny attributes) too... but damn such recordings (Asian Female Poison) can be super sibilant and overly bright with the EM5... so much so that it could make one want to crawl right out of their own skin to get away! An acquired taste most surely!


----------



## Alex.Grimm

*Toneking TO300s MMCX*
https://a.aliexpress.com/_Ap3IF5
https://a.aliexpress.com/_AbaxML
https://a.aliexpress.com/_9grPTh


----------



## rkw

WoodyLuvr said:


> While fast, loud, and overly dynamic types of music (e.g. symphonic & large orchestral classical; Heavy Metal; Punk; EDM; House; Trap; Hip Hop; Hard Rock) tends to really excite the EM5 which some people may find quite fatiguing (too sibilant or aggressive).


I listen mostly to classical music (i.e., unamplified acoustic instruments and voice). For me, the issue with the EM5 is the treble, even in music with low dynamics. String and wind instruments sound unnatural and distorted, like the driver doesn't have enough resolution to reproduce the sound. A shame, because the EM5 has the best bass I've heard from an earbud.


----------



## Sam L

rkw said:


> I listen mostly to classical music (i.e., unamplified acoustic instruments and voice). For me, the issue with the EM5 is the treble, even in music with low dynamics. String and wind instruments sound unnatural and distorted, like the driver doesn't have enough resolution to reproduce the sound. A shame, because the EM5 has the best bass I've heard from an earbud.


Interesting. and true. but I never really found buds, in general, well suited for low dynamic classical music. It's my main grip with buds and classical music.


----------



## baskingshark

rkw said:


> I listen mostly to classical music (i.e., unamplified acoustic instruments and voice). For me, the issue with the EM5 is the treble, even in music with low dynamics. String and wind instruments sound unnatural and distorted, like the driver doesn't have enough resolution to reproduce the sound. A shame, because the EM5 has the best bass I've heard from an earbud.



Agree with this, the timbre is a bit off. Auditioned for 30 min and wasn't my cup of tea.

But anyways, what put me off the EM5 is the QC reports on forums, and the non detachable cables. Personally, I'm not gonna get anything > $50 USD with non detachable components, had a fews non detachable sets die on me in the past.


----------



## waynes world

Alex.Grimm said:


> *Toneking TO300s MMCX*
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_Ap3IF5
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_AbaxML
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_9grPTh



Tell me more! Are they good?


----------



## Yyooo

shoui catemoji said:


> I've been using the K'searphone LBBS for about a week, they have a lot of tonality problems that can be improved with EQ. I don't hear these buds as very neutral at all, they are rather W shaped. (mid bass/fundamental frequencies bloat, harsh shouty mids, peaky treble). I know the sound changes a lot depending on how you wear them, and I am wearing them so they sound their best.
> 
> After EQ these earbuds sound good, the imaging was already interesting which made it nice for acoustic music.
> 
> ...


Totally agree, after a month of using, I don't think LBBS is neutral like some people said, mid is so harsh.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

rkw said:


> I listen mostly to classical music (i.e., unamplified acoustic instruments and voice). For me, the issue with the EM5 is the treble, even in music with low dynamics. String and wind instruments sound unnatural and distorted, like the driver doesn't have enough resolution to reproduce the sound. A shame, because the EM5 has the best bass I've heard from an earbud.





baskingshark said:


> Agree with this, the timbre is a bit off. Auditioned for 30 min and wasn't my cup of tea.
> 
> But anyways, what put me off the EM5 is the QC reports on forums, and the non detachable cables. Personally, I'm not gonna get anything > $50 USD with non detachable components, had a fews non detachable sets die on me in the past.


Yeah, unfortunately the upper midrange and lower treble can get quite excited with certain genres and recordings. I too felt that the timbre was "off" but damn that middle midrange down to bass as you said is quite exceptional... maybe even in the top five earbuds for best bass reproduction. That goofy timbre is what really detracts from a rather sharp and detailed signature especially in the ~3kHz to ~6kHz region which in-turn screws up the imaging and resolution. A real shame that.


Sam L said:


> Interesting. and true. but I never really found buds, in general, well suited for low dynamic classical music. It's my main grip with buds and classical music.



Classical music indeed can be a difficult one for earbuds, let alone any transducer medium, especially for those with discerning ears chasing that live performance playback. 

One earbud may have great soundstage but is lacking in timbre and another is resolute and detailed but has no soundstage and lacks airiness. Have you tried an earbud using the 120Ω LCP driver or something similar? I have found that the balance, accurate timbre, airy treble, and overall performance of this driver to be quite excellent for classical music.


----------



## Blanchot

WoodyLuvr said:


> I believe that the FiiO EM5 is specially tuned for softer music genres such as ambient electronic; acoustic works (the fewer instruments the better); easy listening; and female vocals (Enya, light Jazz, soft R&B, Adele, Celine Dion). While fast, loud, and overly dynamic types of music (e.g. symphonic & large orchestral classical; Heavy Metal; Punk; EDM; House; Trap; Hip Hop; Hard Rock) tends to really excite the EM5 which some people may find quite fatiguing (too sibilant or aggressive). Also, anything recorded or re-mastered during the "Loudness War" late 90s to 2000s (e.g. Modern Music such as Pop and Rock) can also be quite fatiguing and thus why overall I don't think the EM5 is a great all-rounder. Nonetheless, for certain soft genres they are great!
> 
> Funny thing is that the FiiO EM5 is definitely tuned for Asian Female Poison. It has a strong complementing tertiary sound signature reaching out towards Hard-Harsh in the upper midrange and lower treble which offers enhanced female vocals (Female Poison) but along with that can come some aggressiveness thin & tinny attributes) too... but damn such recordings (Asian Female Poison) can be super sibilant and overly bright with the EM5... so much so that it could make one want to crawl right out of their own skin to get away! An acquired taste most surely!


Thanks, such in-depth descriptions are really useful. My library consists of 85% classical and 15% ambient and jazz and I agree with you that the EM5 handles ambient well. 

I'm fairly new to the earbuds world; apart from the EM5 I own a Blur (the model # escapes me atm). I just wish I had discovered buds before I spent thousands on IEMs  They are so much easier to listen to.


----------



## jeejack

My first 3D printed shell. I wanted to share it with you guys


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 29, 2022)

shoui catemoji said:


> I've been using the K'searphone LBBS for about a week, they have a lot of tonality problems that can be improved with EQ. I don't hear these buds as very neutral at all, they are rather W shaped. (mid bass/fundamental frequencies bloat, harsh shouty mids, peaky treble). I know the sound changes a lot depending on how you wear them, and I am wearing them so they sound their best.
> 
> After EQ these earbuds sound good, the imaging was already interesting which made it nice for acoustic music.
> 
> ...





Yyooo said:


> Totally agree, after a month of using, I don't think LBBS is neutral like some people said, mid is so harsh.


*@shoui catemoji @Yyooo* - Good day gents, have you confirmed that you both indeed own the Ks Bell-LBBs and not the Ks Bell-LBS? An older and much inferior model, the LBS call sign is a  rather strong harsh mid-forward sound signature. While the Ks Bell-LBBs is far less forward and much more ear friendly.

*2018 - K's Temperament 小铃 Bell-LBS 30Ω *_(aka "Original Little Bell-Silver")_​*2020 - K's Temperament 小黑铃 Bell-LBBs 30Ω* _(aka "New Little Black Bell S")_​
The reason why I ask is that over the past year or so a good number of people have either mistakenly bought the LBS thinking it was the LBBs or they literally were tricked (baited and switched) with an older *LBS* which was repackaged and even relabeled as the *LBBs / LBBS*.

If you send a pic of both your earbuds and the serial number sticker on the box we would be more than happy to inform you which model you have. Cheers.


With that said some people do hear a "W-Shaped" type sound signature from the LBBs while others hear only a slight "Inverted U-Shaped" type tuning (I sit in this camp)...



Spoiler: Ks Bell-LBBs Sound Signature






_Primary_ = *Mid-Centric - Neutral*
_Secondary (Strong)_ = *Warm *(not muddy, nor muffled)
_Secondary (Weak)_ = *Sharp & Detailed*
_Tertiary (Complementing) _= *Hard-Harsh *(enhanced female vocals; sometimes aggressive though)
_Tertiary (Alternative Complementing) _= *Forward Mids - W-Shaped *(while others may only hear a slight *"Inverted U-Shaped"* instead)
_Tertiary (Opposing)_ = *Hard-Harsh *(not overly bright-sibilant it can get "too exciting" for those sensitive to highs)
_Tertiary (Opposing) _= *Thin & Tinny *(prone to aggressiveness)

The *primary sound signature* _(red dot and red-shaded oval)_ of the* Ks Bell-LBBs* is "*mid-centric - neutral*" that may offer an ever so slight "*inverted u-shaped*" type tuning with a very *strong secondary sound signature*_ (larger blue shaded balloon) _that reaches out to "*warm*" but is far from being muddy, smeared, or muffled. A non-overpowering *weak secondary sound signature*_ (smaller blue shaded balloon) _reaches out to "*detailed*" for greater resolution and more realistic, natural-sounding timbre. Prominent *complementing tertiary sound characteristics *_(green shaded arrows)_ are exhibited in the upper mids and very lower treble that may/can come across as being rather "_*hard-harsh*_" but in-turn also provides enhanced female vocals and reproduction of bright-leaning instruments. Due to mildly recessed mid and upper highs a sneaky and quite "*aggressive*" ("*thin & tinny*") *opposing tertiary sound characteristic *_(green shaded arrow)_ may rear it's ugly head occasionally with certain recordings and music genres. Some individuals may hear an *alternative* *complementing tertiary sound characteristics *_(purple shaded arrow) _which reaches down to *forward mids* ("*w-shaped*" type sound) while others may hear only a very slight "*inverted u-shaped*" type tuning (I sit in this camp).

*Please Note* - It is crucial that you do not interpret this chart two-dimensionally but rather three-dimensionally using all axes offered. Optimally, this would be best presented as a sphere but in turn that would make it difficult to clearly see and read all the labels and sections. Thus, we are limited to two-dimensions for the sake of presentation and clarity. Please note that I tried my best to stick to the "classic" (more basic) sound signature & tuning characteristic definitions as used by recording professionals & audio engineers.

Some transducers may exhibit multiple and opposing tonal attributes all at the same time. I tend to plot earphones by their strongest attribute(s) first and then do my best to fine tune their position based on their other (minor) attributes.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 27, 2022)

jeejack said:


> My first 3D printed shell. I wanted to share it with you guys


Beautiful! Great job. How do they sound? BTW: I like the stardust you put into the black resin.


----------



## jeejack

WoodyLuvr said:


> Beautiful! Great job. How do they sound? BTW: I like the stardust you put into the black resin.


Thx! Better than metalic shell, still playing with tuning


----------



## Setmagic (May 27, 2022)

deleted


----------



## FranQL

VE Megatron has fallen into my hands, although it is a Dac / AMP source I think it is worth leaving my (simple) impressions on the thread of the buds, because the synergy with them taking into account the sale price is at least one madness, always taking into account my personal tastes.

From the outset it is light years away from my current sources, where I had E1DA 9038SG3 as a reference, this megatron has a very analog sound that in my humble opinion is better and more enjoyable and there is all the power that I don't think I will ever need.

I will not go into intangible details, but a great surprise for me, an excellent and unexpected sound, it also elevates my experience in high impedance buds, which are always my preference.

I'm looking forward to a custom AMP DIY Workroom so I'll have my gaming gear totally up to date!


----------



## Yyooo

WoodyLuvr said:


> *@shoui catemoji @Yyooo* - Good day gents, have you confirmed that you both indeed own the Ks Bell-LBBs and not the Ks Bell-LBS? An older and much inferior model, the LBS call sign is a  rather strong harsh mid-forward sound signature. While the Ks Bell-LBBs is far less forward and much more ear friendly.
> 
> *2018 - K's Temperament 小铃 Bell-LBS 30Ω *_(aka "Original Little Bell-Silver")_​*2020 - K's Temperament 小黑铃 Bell-LBBs 30Ω* _(aka "New Little Black Bell S")_​
> The reason why I ask is that over the past year or so a good number of people have either mistakenly bought the LBS thinking it was the LBBs or they literally were tricked (baited and switched) with an older *LBS* which was repackaged and even relabeled as the *LBBs / LBBS*.
> ...


Good day to you too. I'm pretty sure I bought LBBS, not LBB, half of the cable is fabric. Instead, I asked K's official shop seller, he said they have changed a little bit about the thickness of shell since 2020 release, I don't know if this is the reason.


----------



## rprodrigues

Alex.Grimm said:


> *Toneking TO300s MMCX*
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_Ap3IF5
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_AbaxML
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_9grPTh



Do you have them? Are they any good?

I own TO200, TO400s, and Tomawhank from the brand, but I'm not impressed by them. I hope they have managed to get a better set with TO300s.


----------



## rprodrigues (May 27, 2022)

Bloos said:


> Did you get a chance to listen to the Nicehck B70?
> How are they, vs B40 or EB2S?



For me, B70 is brighter than B40 but not better because they sound thinner (slightly). Vocals in B40 also sound cleaner than in B70. Bass is good in both models. Soundstage is wider in B70 due to more extended treble (brighter). B70 also sound airier thanks to the more extended treble.  Both are as comfy because they share (shape of) the shells.

Overall, B40 is better for the genre of songs I like (jazz, classical) and if I had to keep one, that would be B40. Other genres may benefit from B70's treble, but the thin vocals are a dealbreaker for me (I really don't like thin vocals).

EB2S is better than B70. Period.

Buildwise, B70 is cheap as hell (B40 too).


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 27, 2022)

Yyooo said:


> Good day to you too. I'm pretty sure I bought LBBS, not LBB, half of the cable is fabric. Instead, I asked K's official shop seller, he said they have changed a little bit about the thickness of shell since 2020 release, I don't know if this is the reason.


Curiouser and curiouser! Thank you for that information. I never heard that about a shell change since 2020 and I honestly did not catch that if it is indeed true!

*@RikudouGoku* were you aware of a shell change on Ks Bell-LBBs perhaps in 2021 sometime?


----------



## RikudouGoku

WoodyLuvr said:


> Curiouser and curiouser! Thank you for that information. I never heard that about a shell change since 2020 and I honestly did not catch that if it is indeed true!
> 
> *@RikudouGoku* were you aware of a shell change on Ks Bell-LBBs perhaps in 2021 sometime?


never heard about it.


----------



## waynes world

rprodrigues said:


> Buildwise, B70 is cheap as hell (B40 too).



The cable on the B40 is quite durable though - I've put them through the "earbud for sleeping" torture test for the last 6 months, and they are still going strong


----------



## WoodyLuvr

RikudouGoku said:


> never heard about it.


I'll try to hit up the guys over on *erji. net* to see if they can confirm this or not... let alone even respond! LOL!


----------



## Alex.Grimm

rprodrigues said:


> Do you have them? Are they any good?


No, the new model


----------



## LunarLight

Talking about EM5 i cracked them once, feels horrible.
Got it fixed by filled the crack and plug the holes, really expensive job…


----------



## Setmagic

LunarLight said:


> Talking about EM5 i cracked them once, feels horrible.
> Got it fixed by filled the crack and plug the holes, really expensive job…


I feel sorry for You 😔
Fiio made just bad decision about this 2 pipes who stands really for nothing.
Just a snake oil design


----------



## LunarLight

Setmagic said:


> I feel sorry for You 😔
> Fiio made just bad decision about this 2 pipes who stands really for nothing.
> Just a snake oil design


Yeah, pretty much sounds almost the same (maybe just psychological) but still kinda ugly and i don’t think i’m gonna sell it so i just got it fixed and careful, expecting a long time usage out of it.


----------



## LongNguyenHorn

Hi, i would like to ask between Shozy BK and Moondrop Chaconne and Moondrop Liebesleid. Which one have the most bass for better tonality/timbre and the most musical set. Thank you.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 29, 2022)

LongNguyenHorn said:


> Hi, i would like to ask between Shozy BK and Moondrop Chaconne and Moondrop Liebesleid. Which one have the most bass for better tonality/timbre and the most musical set. Thank you.


Really depends on your preference for "*warmer*" or "*brighter*" leaning signatured transducers.

By their _primary sound signature_ all three earbuds sit very close to the "*flat-neutral line*" but the* Shozy 大黑 Big Black (BK) Stardust* is definitely warmer than the slightly bright/aggressive leaning *Moondrop Chaconne* and even more so than the older and brighter *Moondrop Liebesleid*. In most cases than not, I would recommend the *BK Stardust* as a better all-rounder in comparison to either the *Chaconne* and *Liebesleid* which are one or two-trick ponies only. They are exceptional and wonderful sounding but for very specific music genres and/or preference'd signature tastes... unfortunately, in my opinion they will fail miserably as all-use purpose earphones.

Please see all three (3) earbuds plotted by their _*primary sound signatures*_ in the chart down below.



Spoiler: Sound Chart



Transducers may exhibit multiple and opposing tonal attributes all at the same time. I tend to plot earphones by their strongest attribute(s) first (_primary & strong secondary sound signatures_) and then do my best to fine tune their position based on their other (minor) characteristics (_weak secondary_ & _tertiary sound signatures_).





*Please Note* - It is crucial that you do not interpret this chart two-dimensionally but rather three-dimensionally using all axes offered. Optimally, this would be best presented as a sphere but in turn that would make it difficult to clearly see and read all the labels and sections. Thus, we are limited to two-dimensions for the sake of presentation and clarity. Please note that I tried my best to stick to the "classic" (more basic) sound signature & tuning characteristic definitions as used by recording professionals & audio engineers.


----------



## LongNguyenHorn

WoodyLuvr said:


> Really depends on your preference for "*warmer*" or "*brighter*" leaning signatured transducers.
> 
> By their _primary sound signature_ all three earbuds sit very close to the "*flat-neutral line*" but the* Shozy 大黑 Big Black (BK) Stardust* is definitely warmer than the slightly bright/aggressive leaning *Moondrop Chaconne* and even more so than the older and brighter *Moondrop Liebesleid*. In most cases than not, I would recommend the *BK Stardust* as a better all-rounder in comparison to either the *Chaconne* and *Liebesleid* which are one or two-trick ponies only. They are exceptional and wonderful sounding but for very specific music genres and/or preference'd signature tastes... unfortunately, in my opinion they will fail miserably as all-use purpose earphones.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your super details support. I have the BK Stardust already. I feel it quite good but it just lack a bit bass and bright for me. And the driver seem having quite much distortion. Do you think the Chaconne could be the answer ?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 28, 2022)

LongNguyenHorn said:


> Thank you for your super details support. I have the BK Stardust already. I feel it quite good but it just lack a bit bass and bright for me. And the driver seem having quite much distortion. Do you think the Chaconne could be the answer ?


Honestly, I found both the *Chaconne* and *Liebesleid* to be lighter in the bass in comparison to the *BK Stardust*. Their bass is clean, accurate, and detailed... just with some sub-bass roll off and far less impactful. You might consider contacting *@RikudouGoku *(*Instagram*) about his *RikuBuds Berserker 1 (32Ω)* I have been quite impressed with the tuning of these earbuds especially their extraordinarily deep and resolute bass. They are bass canons!


----------



## LongNguyenHorn

WoodyLuvr said:


> Honestly, I found both the *Chaconne* and *Liebesleid* to be lighter in the bass in comparison to the *BK Stardust*. Their bass is clean, accurate, and detailed... just with some sub-bass roll off and far less impactful. You might consider contacting *@RikudouGoku *(*Instagram*) about his *RikuBuds Berserker 1 (32Ω)* I have been quite impressed with the tuning of these earbuds especially their extraordinarily deep and resolute bass. They are bass canons!


I will take a look at it. Thank you.


----------



## povidlo

syazwaned said:


> Has anyone tried this portable Tube amp for their earbuds  or iem?






Chessnaudio said:


> That looks cool! Would love to know too.


Korg HA-S works great with high impedance buds like Rosemary and K300. It has 10 ohms output impedance so might not be suitable for everything. I got it recently and have been using it with hard-to-drive stuff only.

So far I like it better than Little Bear B4-X and Cayin N3Pro.


----------



## povidlo

FranQL said:


> Creative Aurvana Air is my recomendation





WoodyLuvr said:


> *2009 - Creative Aurvana Air (32Ω)*
> 
> What a great recommendation *@FranQL*... a real blast from the past and most surprisingly this earhook-type earphone (earbud) does appear to be still readily available NOS/NIB many places online which I find incredible! As it has been so long ago I don't recall the signature any longer but I DO RECALL how nicely those earhook earbuds were made and how comfortable (lightweight and very fit-forming) they were to wear.





nofarewell said:


> Thanks! How would you describe the sound? I guess "Air" has to do something with it.



Aurvana Air has TOTL-level build quality (except the cable). They're some of the most comfortable buds to walk around with due to clever, light fit with hooks. 

They sound airy, clean, bright. A bit thin and cold for my likeing so far, and vocals are not very engaging. EBX21 has a similar sound signature but they resolve better and expose more details I guess due to a more modern driver in use. NiceHCK DYI MX500 sound similar as well. I will not give up and continue to burn-in Aurvana Air mentally and physically since using them physically is a pleasure. 

I got them recently for 40 euro brand-new from Creative Germany online store. Check your local Creative online store for availability. 

https://de.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/aurvana-air



Spoiler: box


----------



## tonymcross

Hello everyone!
I've been having Smabat ST10 (green) for 3 years. They're energetic, lively  - overall good, but sometimes a bit boomy for my taste. Now I have intention to try smth better. 

*budget - $150*
*source* _- DAP Opus #1s, but I'm looking for smth new and better in budget ~$450 ._
*listening level & session length - I prefer listening at volume lesser than medium.*
*listening environment* _- home in late evening (peace and silence)_
*preferred music genre - post-rock, prog-rock, post metal, prog-metal*
_preferred sound signature i_ _(e.g. bright, dark, warm, aggressive, bassy, neutral, L/U/V/W-shaped) - I prefer comfortable and balanced sound signature signature with strong, impact bass without muddy, detail treble without harsh and and energetic mids._


----------



## jogawag

tonymcross said:


> Hello everyone!
> I've been having Smabat ST10 (green) for 3 years. They're energetic, lively  - overall good, but sometimes a bit boomy for my taste. Now I have intention to try smth better.
> 
> *budget - $150*
> ...


I recommend you Yincrow RW-2000 as buds.


----------



## digititus

tonymcross said:


> Hello everyone!
> I've been having Smabat ST10 (green) for 3 years. They're energetic, lively  - overall good, but sometimes a bit boomy for my taste. Now I have intention to try smth better.
> 
> *budget - $150*
> ...


Smabat ST10s Gold


----------



## Ronion

povidlo said:


> Korg HA-S works great with high impedance buds like Rosemary and K300. It has 10 ohms output impedance so might not be suitable for everything. I got it recently and have been using it with hard-to-drive stuff only.
> 
> So far I like it better than Little Bear B4-X and Cayin N3Pro.


On the tests we’ve done, earbuds have done well on high output impedance sources, but it’s definitely a valid point.  It certainly doesn’t mean they all will.  The worst one I measured only had a 1 dB boost at 100Hz with an 80Ohm output impedance.


----------



## Setmagic

Ronion said:


> On the tests we’ve done, earbuds have done well on high output impedance sources, but it’s definitely a valid point.  It certainly doesn’t mean they all will.  The worst one I measured only had a 1 dB boost at 100Hz with an 80Ohm output impedance.


10 ohm its really small impedance for single driver headphones.
Problem will be from bad to terrible with iems or other multi drivers headphones.

@povidlo how You like a sound?
NuTube have 3-5 times more 3rd harmonics distortion than regular tube preamp, and buds have a lot of harmonics itself.


----------



## povidlo

Setmagic said:


> 10 ohm its really small impedance for single driver headphones.
> Problem will be from bad to terrible with iems or other multi drivers headphones.
> 
> @povidlo how You like a sound?
> NuTube have 3-5 times more 3rd harmonics distortion than regular tube preamp, and buds have a lot of harmonics itself.



Can you please elaborate on buds having a lot of harmonics? It’s not something I noticed/aware of. I assumed since dynamic driver technology is mostly the same across the board, there wouldn’t be a significant difference with iems/headphones in that regard.

I generally enjoy the tubey sound a lot so if Nutube has a lot more 3rd harmonics distortion than average tube that might explain why I like it so much so far. With tubes, there’s added body, note edges are rounded, emptiness gaps between notes and frequency transitions are reduced, and therefor sound becomes more musical to my ears. It’s like different parts of a track becomes glued together with very tasty bubble gum. With a good DAC source, there is plenty of details and dynamics to keep things from getting muggy.

Synergy matters, of course. For example, with K300 which is mid-centric and lean, it’s a better combo than with Rosemary which is already thick with boosted low mids.

HA-S also has an option to turn negative feedback on to reduce harmonics in order make it sound more accurate, more solid-state and what not, but I prefer to keep this option off for now.


----------



## Dsdc95

I have the nicehck eb2s but the left driver  rattles if I increase the bass. Is there anything I can do to secure it?


----------



## thedjkhalid

WoodyLuvr said:


> *@shoui catemoji @Yyooo* - Good day gents, have you confirmed that you both indeed own the Ks Bell-LBBs and not the Ks Bell-LBS? An older and much inferior model, the LBS call sign is a  rather strong harsh mid-forward sound signature. While the Ks Bell-LBBs is far less forward and much more ear friendly.
> 
> *2018 - K's Temperament 小铃 Bell-LBS 30Ω *_(aka "Original Little Bell-Silver")_​*2020 - K's Temperament 小黑铃 Bell-LBBs 30Ω* _(aka "New Little Black Bell S")_​
> The reason why I ask is that over the past year or so a good number of people have either mistakenly bought the LBS thinking it was the LBBs or they literally were tricked (baited and switched) with an older *LBS* which was repackaged and even relabeled as the *LBBs / LBBS*.
> ...


Hi, I was just wondering how to determine if I got the right LBBS?  This is the sticker on my box.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

thedjkhalid said:


> Hi, I was just wondering how to determine if I got the right LBBS?  This is the sticker on my box.


Please send a pic of your earbuds (including cable and termination jack).


----------



## thedjkhalid

WoodyLuvr said:


> Please send a pic of your earbuds (including cable and termination jack).


Here they are


----------



## WoodyLuvr

thedjkhalid said:


> Here they are


Looks like you got yourself a pair of Ks Bell-LBBs. Thank you for sharing.


----------



## thedjkhalid

WoodyLuvr said:


> Looks like you got yourself a pair of Ks Bell-LBBs. Thank you for sharing.


Thank you sir!

If these were the "inferior" versions, I wouldn't know what to say since these were already excellent to me.


----------



## rymd

This may be a long shot, but does anyone know of any earbuds with bass quality and extension like the VE Zen 1.0?

I stopped keeping track of this thread like 3 years ago after I got the K's 300 Samsara, which basically checked all the boxes for me. But just recently, I dug up my old Zen 1.0 to listen to and was blown away by the sub bass again. I still think the Samsara is better overall, but if only I could merge my Samsara with the Zen 1's bass . I searched this thread but couldn't find much since the Zen 1 is unfortunately long discontinued.


----------



## Setmagic

povidlo said:


> Can you please elaborate on buds having a lot of harmonics? It’s not something I noticed/aware of. I assumed since dynamic driver technology is mostly the same across the board, there wouldn’t be a significant difference with iems/headphones in that regard.


Its nothing bad abut buds, thats why they sounds nice. Due to design buds have more harmonics than avarge full sized headphones and IEMs.

@povidlo I didn't know about posibility of turn off negative feadback on nutube (preamp) part of HA-1S its nice from factor.
I have DIY AMP powered by Pass Labs that working in clean A class without NFB on FET transistors.

Nutubes was designed for mastering efects in studio workflow but looks like have some places in audio now.
Its better implementation for porable devices than traditional tubes.


----------



## povidlo

Setmagic said:


> Its nothing bad abut buds, thats why they sounds nice. Due to design buds have more harmonics than avarge full sized headphones and IEMs.



Thanks for the feedback. Can you please elaborate on why earbuds would have more harmonics due to design?


----------



## yaps66

Dsdc95 said:


> I have the nicehck eb2s but the left driver  rattles if I increase the bass. Is there anything I can do to secure it?


Short of opening it up (since it is a fixed cable), I am not sure what could be the cause and therefore how to secure it.  Maybe on of the DIY's on this thread can help?


----------



## Setmagic

povidlo said:


> Thanks for the feedback. Can you please elaborate on why earbuds would have more harmonics due to design?


Can't tell what aspect says more about but its few things. Small driver on semi open back and open face of driver working asymmetric to ear cannal. We are hearing only small part of driver directly all other have same job but in different conditions.

It's best to use a good full sized speakers system in studio conditions (to avoid errors in reflections of room) or excellent full sized headphones and run for example 1kHz tone. You can hear it is same way as NFB button on Your amp.


----------



## gylyf

Hi, everyone. I'm starting to think about a new pair of earbuds, as I'm awaiting the arrival of a new portable source, and I'd love to get some recommendations. The last time I solicited recommendations, I ended up with a pair of Newbsound 32pros, which I love (except for the cable, due to some microphonics). This time around, I'm looking for an all-rounder that preferably (though not necessarily) has a removable cable.

Budget - around $150
Source - Chord Mojo 2, iFi Gryphon, Lotoo S2
Listening level & session length - low to medium, 2-3 hours
Listening environment - quiet, usually late night
Preferred music genres - indie rock, classic rock, Britpop, jazz
Preferred sound signatures - I'm basically looking for the bud equivalent of the Sennheiser HD600

Thank you in advance!


----------



## Headcasey MD

gylyf said:


> Hi, everyone. I'm starting to think about a new pair of earbuds, as I'm awaiting the arrival of a new portable source, and I'd love to get some recommendations. The last time I solicited recommendations, I ended up with a pair of Newbsound 32pros, which I love (except for the cable, due to some microphonics). This time around, I'm looking for an all-rounder that preferably (though not necessarily) has a removable cable.
> 
> Budget - around $150
> Source - Chord Mojo 2, iFi Gryphon, Lotoo S2
> ...


Toneking to600 can fit the HD600 bill.  600 ohms, so you need some power.  Your sources look to fill the bill.  Toneking to600 was a favorite of the late & lamented Hungry Panda.  He described them as a big and mature sound.  Good bass.  The treble touches sparkling, and backs away like HD600.  Prices have gone up for Toneking, but I see one for $70 at Ali.  There are, of course, many newer offerings.  Maybe Baskingshark will weigh in.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 30, 2022)

gylyf said:


> Hi, everyone. I'm starting to think about a new pair of earbuds, as I'm awaiting the arrival of a new portable source, and I'd love to get some recommendations. The last time I solicited recommendations, I ended up with a pair of Newbsound 32pros, which I love (except for the cable, due to some microphonics). This time around, I'm looking for an all-rounder that preferably (though not necessarily) has a removable cable.
> 
> Budget - around $150
> Source - Chord Mojo 2, iFi Gryphon, Lotoo S2
> ...


Five (5) other earbuds worthy of consideration that offer SENN HD600 like type sound signatures:

*Shozy 大黑 Big Black (BK) Stardust (16Ω)* *>>>* *sound chart and detailed post here*
*Blur 189 Hybrid MX64 (64Ω aPs)*
*Blur 189 Hybrid MX150 (150Ω aPs)*
*Blur 266R MX64 Reference (64Ω aPs)*
*Blur 266R MX150 Reference (150Ω aPs)*





that


----------



## digititus

rymd said:


> This may be a long shot, but does anyone know of any earbuds with bass quality and extension like the VE Zen 1.0?
> 
> I stopped keeping track of this thread like 3 years ago after I got the K's 300 Samsara, which basically checked all the boxes for me. But just recently, I dug up my old Zen 1.0 to listen to and was blown away by the sub bass again. I still think the Samsara is better overall, but if only I could merge my Samsara with the Zen 1's bass . I searched this thread but couldn't find much since the Zen 1 is unfortunately long discontinued.


Don't know the VE Zen 1.0, but quality bass cannons are Smabat ST10s gold and Fiio EM5.


----------



## gylyf

Headcasey MD said:


> Toneking to600 can fit the HD600 bill.  600 ohms, so you need some power.  Your sources look to fill the bill.  Toneking to600 was a favorite of the late & lamented Hungry Panda.  He described them as a big and mature sound.  Good bass.  The treble touches sparkling, and backs away like HD600.  Prices have gone up for Toneking, but I see one for $70 at Ali.  There are, of course, many newer offerings.  Maybe Baskingshark will weigh in.





WoodyLuvr said:


> Five (5) other earbuds worthy of consideration that offer SENN HD600 like type sound signatures:
> 
> *Shozy 大黑 Big Black (BK) Stardust (16Ω)* *>>>* *sound chart and detailed post here*
> *Blur 189 Hybrid MX64 (64Ω aPs)*
> ...



Thank you both so much for the recommendations. @WoodyLuvr I already had the Shozy in my cart at Penon, but I'll look into the others as well. 👍🏼


----------



## AdamT2

A very sad day has come that I knew was on the horizon - My last pair of Bose IE2's finally broke.
I have been through about 14 pairs in the last 12 years and they were the only earbuds I found that I could comfortably use (they felt like a part of me, so I am crushed by this).
I would *REALLY *appreciate some recommendations since they don't make those anymore. I have been searching for hours - but I just don't understand enough about audio, and most reviews/similar topics for IE2 are old/potentially outdated.
Does anyone have a good recommendation to replace the IE2's - specifically for the qualities below?

They didn't go very far into my ear canal/didn't hurt my ears. It seemed like a hybrid between ones that go in your ear, and ones that just sit flat in the ear.
The tips that hooked in the ear and were comfortable enough to sleep in
wired - not Bluetooth
sound quality (I know they probably aren't the best - but id like something similar quality or better)
Thank you in advance for any help.


----------



## Headcasey MD

AdamT2 said:


> A very sad day has come that I knew was on the horizon - My last pair of Bose IE2's finally broke.
> I have been through about 14 pairs in the last 12 years and they were the only earbuds I found that I could comfortably use (they felt like a part of me, so I am crushed by this).
> I would *REALLY *appreciate some recommendations since they don't make those anymore. I have been searching for hours - but I just don't understand enough about audio, and most reviews/similar topics for IE2 are old/potentially outdated.
> Does anyone have a good recommendation to replace the IE2's - specifically for the qualities below?
> ...


https://www.amazon.com/Bose-627476-0020-IE2-audio-headphones/dp/B003XU6H8I

Still around.


----------



## yaps66

Smabat M3Pro have landed.  Mine were made in New China. Haha!

As reviewed by @KutuzovGambit these are bright-neutral and borders on being shouty when you turn up the volume especially in the mid to upper-mids.  My pair came with gold and silver dampers and I can also confirm that the silver dampers are more neutral than the gold.  It seems others have the black dampers also but mine did not come with these.  The M3Pro are highly resolving and detailed and rolled off in the sub-bass.  Treble is very well done without any sibilance.

I am burning them in and will reserve judgment.


----------



## baskingshark

yaps66 said:


> Smabat M3Pro have landed.  Mine were made in New China. Haha!
> 
> As reviewed by @KutuzovGambit these are bright-neutral and borders on being shouty when you turn up the volume especially in the mid to upper-mids.  My pair came with gold and silver dampers and I can also confirm that the silver dampers are more neutral than the gold.  It seems others have the black dampers also but mine did not come with these.  The M3Pro are highly resolving and detailed and rolled off in the sub-bass.  Treble is very well done without any sibilance.
> 
> I am burning them in and will reserve judgment.



Nice! Look forward to your reviews!

Unfortunately even a month is considered an eternity in CHIFI-land. Looks like a new SMABAT is releasing soon!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 31, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> Unfortunately even a month is considered an eternity in CHIFI-land. Looks like a new SMABAT is releasing soon!


Wow!

Plus on the official Smabat website they are now only showing five (5) earbuds available: *M Pro*; *ST10s (Black & Gold)*; *ST20*; *ST20 Pro*; and* Super One*


----------



## RikudouGoku

AdamT2 said:


> A very sad day has come that I knew was on the horizon - My last pair of Bose IE2's finally broke.
> I have been through about 14 pairs in the last 12 years and they were the only earbuds I found that I could comfortably use (they felt like a part of me, so I am crushed by this).
> I would *REALLY *appreciate some recommendations since they don't make those anymore. I have been searching for hours - but I just don't understand enough about audio, and most reviews/similar topics for IE2 are old/potentially outdated.
> Does anyone have a good recommendation to replace the IE2's - specifically for the qualities below?
> ...


those look closer to the apple earpod/airpod style. 

Maybe check out the Yincrow RW-100.


----------



## citral23 (May 31, 2022)

Holy crap, whoever tuned the Smabat M3 Pro should be fired immediately. They don't just sound bad, but literally broken. Like I'm in the Bioshock game listening to a mono 50's speaker from far away. Very dry, no soundstage.

Hurts quite a bit at that price point, damn 

Edit: the silver dampers make things much less bad, as does hooking them on a balanced cable, they need some juice. Still nowhere near as full sounding as say a TO200, mids are strange, and with a weird some sort of far away/reverb effect, maybe the maze? Didn't experience that on the Smabat Gold tho. What they have for them is the fit, due to how they are constructed they sit and stay firm close to the ear canal, so good bass for earbuds even if it's overall disapointing. 4/10 for now.


----------



## jao29 (May 31, 2022)

Can anyone compare the Fiio Em5 to the Ksearphone Onmyoji? Is it risky getting the EM5 because of the shoddy built quality?

edit: just realized that both of these earbuds have poor build quality. 😅 Can anyone vouch for the durability of the EM5’s? So far my Onmyoji is still going strong after 1 and a half years.


----------



## citral23

MelodyMood said:


> You may be right. They are just Ok and nothing exciting. But I was expecting much better at that price.


Dude, it's like 12€


----------



## digititus

jao29 said:


> Can anyone compare the Fiio Em5 to the Ksearphone Onmyoji? Is it risky getting the EM5 because of the shoddy built quality?
> 
> edit: just realized that both of these earbuds have poor build quality. 😅 Can anyone vouch for the durability of the EM5’s? So far my Onmyoji is still going strong after 1 and a half years.


No problems for me with EM5 so far


----------



## AdamT2

Headcasey MD said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Bose-627476-0020-IE2-audio-headphones/dp/B003XU6H8I
> 
> Still around.


They have been discontinued, and the ones for sale are being scalped. They used to sell for $100, then down to $50 for a while. Now the remaining ones are all around $300


----------



## AdamT2 (May 31, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> those look closer to the apple earpod/airpod style.
> 
> Maybe check out the Yincrow RW-100.


The original Apple have been the closest things I have found so far.
Would the sound quality be even close to the same though? The Apples are ~$20, but the Bose used to be $50-$100.
Sorry if that is a stupid question.

Those Yincrows look promising as well. Are earbuds from Aliexpress a common/reputable thing? Same question about sound quality for price.

Thank you very much for the assistance!


----------



## RikudouGoku

AdamT2 said:


> Would the sound quality be even close to the same though? The Apples are ~$20, but the Bose used to be $50-$100.


Just because something is more expensive than something else doesnt mean it must sound better. That goes for pretty much everything in this hobby.




AdamT2 said:


> Are earbuds from Aliexpress a common/reputable thing?


The kind of buds you want, which is more of an earbud/iem hybrid is pretty rare, aliexpress or not.



AdamT2 said:


> Same question about sound quality for price.


In my experience, chifi stomps western-fi.


----------



## yaps66

digititus said:


> No problems for me with EM5 so far


+1. No problems with me for my EM5 too.


----------



## AdamT2

RikudouGoku said:


> Just because something is more expensive than something else doesnt mean it must sound better. That goes for pretty much everything in this hobby.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for all the insight!


----------



## mt877

Smabat ST10s Black Gold on sale now for $105.00, normal price is $147.00 (from Smabat website). At that price I could not resist. Now the waiting game.


----------



## yaps66

mt877 said:


> Smabat ST10s Black Gold on sale now for $105.00, normal price is $147.00 (from Smabat website). At that price I could not resist. Now the waiting game.


Thanks for the heads-up! Great deal!


----------



## samandhi

yaps66 said:


> Thanks for the heads-up! Great deal!


One just has to wait for these to be on sale. I grabbed mine for less than $100 about 6-8 months ago. Either way, they ARE fantastic though.


----------



## LongNguyenHorn (Jun 1, 2022)

So i bought the Chaconne thanks to @WoodyLuvr maps.
I still not finish its burn in yet but overall i'm quite happy with the buying maybe the Libesleid will suit me even more. But the staff tell me the Libesleid have the history of dying driver.
But anyway i want to ask which DAP do you prefer in 1500$ range for bass speed and complex symphony orchestra tracks ( Mahlers, Wagner )
I try Fiio M11 pro but its having this tonality bright and close sounding at the same while its technical is very good.
So which Dap do you think have Fiio M11 pro technical and better synchronized tonality. Thank you.


----------



## samandhi (Jun 2, 2022)

LongNguyenHorn said:


> So i bought the Chaconne thanks to @WoodyLuvr maps.
> I still not finish its burn in yet but overall i'm quite happy with the buying maybe the Libesleid will suit me even more. But the staff tell me the Libesleid have the history of dying driver.
> But anyway i want to ask which DAP do you prefer in 1500$ range for bass speed and complex symphony orchestra tracks ( Mahlers, Wagner )
> I try Fiio M11 pro but its having this tonality bright and close sounding at the same while its technical is very good.
> So which Dap do you think have Fiio M11 pro technical and better synchronized tonality. Thank you.


I am using the Chaconne with the iBasso DX300. They are discontinued because of the shortages in getting parts (Cirrus DAC chips), but have just released the DX320, which is the exact same device with a new DAC chip (Rohm DAC). I have not heard the new one yet, but it is slightly more expensive than the original. You can still get the DX300 though. I would imagine you could get one here on the classified section because of those that are buying the new DX320 and selling their DX300.

They both use the same modular amp cards; of which there are 2 right now. A new one is just about ready for release though. It is a Korg Nutube (tube) amp card.

I have not heard the M11 Pro, but I have heard the M11, and IIRC I wouldn't exactly call it bright, but had a digital sound to it in the treble region (which could also be construed as bright I suppose). But I would say that the soundstage on both amp cards for the iBasso can be huge (depending on the music, of course). Comparing them to each other though, Amp 12 has a wider soundstage but with a tad bit less impact on the bass side of things. Both have fantastic technicalities.

It is my opinion that you will not get better overall in a flagship DAP. I think that you will simply get different among the other flagships. It will come down to whether their overall sound signature is to your liking or not.

For my money, the other "bells and whistles" make it better regardless. It has in-house FPGA-master, dual batteries (about 15 hours listening time), interchangeable amp cards, one of the fastest processors out there; I recently heard from iBasso that they are going to be updating the OS to android 11, near desktop power to drive high Ohm head gear, and etc... https://www.ibasso.com/product/dx300/

YMMV though...


----------



## myaukolka

Is there an alternative to NiceHCK DIY MX500 with replaceable cable? I'm going through 2nd pair of these and noticing sound becoming quiet and cable becoming unpleasantly stiff. I really like the sound of them and lightweight mx500 shell is fitting me nicely secure, so it's just the longevity that is missing for me. It's currently low on stock and transparent shells that i wanted are gone completely, so maybe it's the time to upgrade.


----------



## LongNguyenHorn

samandhi said:


> I am using the Chaconne with the iBasso DX300. They are discontinued because of the shortages in getting parts (Cirrus DAC chips), but have just released the DX320, which is the exact same device with a new DAC chip (Rohm DAC). I have not heard the new one yet, but it is slightly more expensive than the original. You can still get the DX300 though. I would imagine you could get one here on the classified section because of those that are buying the new DX320 and selling their DX300.
> 
> They both use the same modular amp cards; of which there are 2 right now. A new one is just about ready for release though. It is a Korg Nutube (tube) amp card.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your detail review. I will try the dx160 soon. Hopefully dx300 will be the dx160 upgrade so i can imagine the tunning idea of it.


----------



## samandhi

LongNguyenHorn said:


> Thank you for your detail review. I will try the dx160 soon. Hopefully dx300 will be the dx160 upgrade so i can imagine the tunning idea of it.


You are most welcome! 

I also have the DX160 and can tell you that based purely on sound/sound quality, there isn't a huge difference (though it is definitely there). The DX160 uses the same DAC chip (just dual DAC as opposed to the quad DAC in the DX300), and there is only one battery. I take the DX160 with me to work (in mechanical rooms and boiler rooms a lot) because of the smaller form factor and I use the DX300 everywhere else; and sometimes to those same mech rooms when I am wearing more baggy pants. 

As for synergy with the Chaconne, other than needing a tad more quantity of bass (IMO), I have yet to hear a tuning in any head gear that reproduces analog (real) instruments as well as the Chaconne do; whether that be full sized, IEM, TWS, or buds. And (for me) the iBasso devices are just about perfect to make these shine. There might be others out there that are better for this as I have not heard them all, but these surely are at the top of the list for synergy. So, I think you have found the best of the best either way, in the Chaconne if you listen mainly to classical.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

myaukolka said:


> Is there an alternative to NiceHCK DIY MX500 with replaceable cable? I'm going through 2nd pair of these and noticing sound becoming quiet and cable becoming unpleasantly stiff. I really like the sound of them and lightweight mx500 shell is fitting me nicely secure, so it's just the longevity that is missing for me. It's currently low on stock and transparent shells that i wanted are gone completely, so maybe it's the time to upgrade.



A *Flathead Earbud Recommendation Request Checklist* is *here*.


----------



## Scuba Devils

samandhi said:


> You are most welcome!
> 
> I also have the DX160 and can tell you that based purely on sound/sound quality, there isn't a huge difference (though it is definitely there). The DX160 uses the same DAC chip (just dual DAC as opposed to the quad DAC in the DX300), and there is only one battery. I take the DX160 with me to work (in mechanical rooms and boiler rooms a lot) because of the smaller form factor and I use the DX300 everywhere else; and sometimes to those same mech rooms when I am wearing more baggy pants.
> 
> As for synergy with the Chaconne, other than needing a tad more quantity of bass (IMO), I have yet to hear a tuning in any head gear that reproduces analog (real) instruments as well as the Chaconne do; whether that be full sized, IEM, TWS, or buds. And (for me) the iBasso devices are just about perfect to make these shine. There might be others out there that are better for this as I have not heard them all, but these surely are at the top of the list for synergy. So, I think you have found the best of the best either way, in the Chaconne if you listen mainly to classical.



I have the Shanling M9 which is again another excellent source for Chaconne. I was comparing female vocals earlier today on Chaconne vs a few IEMs, Chaconne took the prize. It's quite a specialist in terms of the music I play with it but a wonderful set of buds when I do reach for them.


----------



## LongNguyenHorn

samandhi said:


> You are most welcome!
> 
> I also have the DX160 and can tell you that based purely on sound/sound quality, there isn't a huge difference (though it is definitely there). The DX160 uses the same DAC chip (just dual DAC as opposed to the quad DAC in the DX300), and there is only one battery. I take the DX160 with me to work (in mechanical rooms and boiler rooms a lot) because of the smaller form factor and I use the DX300 everywhere else; and sometimes to those same mech rooms when I am wearing more baggy pants.
> 
> As for synergy with the Chaconne, other than needing a tad more quantity of bass (IMO), I have yet to hear a tuning in any head gear that reproduces analog (real) instruments as well as the Chaconne do; whether that be full sized, IEM, TWS, or buds. And (for me) the iBasso devices are just about perfect to make these shine. There might be others out there that are better for this as I have not heard them all, but these surely are at the top of the list for synergy. So, I think you have found the best of the best either way, in the Chaconne if you listen mainly to classical.


Yes for me the Chaconne bass just a little bit much on the classical but i understand that if take that bass out, it will have less emotion because classical is both slow and fast, aggressive happiness also sadness. And i want even more sad from it.

Now i think i will buy the laid back dap to pair with it because when i try to close my eyes to have out - of - body experience the Chaconne always sound like wanted to wake me up to analyze the music LOL.



Scuba Devils said:


> I have the Shanling M9 which is again another excellent source for Chaconne. I was comparing female vocals earlier today on Chaconne vs a few IEMs, Chaconne took the prize. It's quite a specialist in terms of the music I play with it but a wonderful set of buds when I do reach for them.



It is beautiful Dap indeed but i will wait to buy totl in the future like next 2 or 3 years. This hobby is a long journey i think.


----------



## samandhi

LongNguyenHorn said:


> Yes for me the Chaconne bass just a little bit much on the classical but i understand that if take that bass out, it will have less emotion because classical is both slow and fast, aggressive happiness also sadness. And i want even more sad from it.
> 
> Now i think i will buy the laid back dap to pair with it because when i try to close my eyes to have out - of - body experience the Chaconne always sound like wanted to wake me up to analyze the music LOL.
> 
> ...


If you want a laid back DAP, you might stay away from Fiio, and A&K as they tend to present on the aggressive side of neutral. I don't know much about the presentation of a TOTL Hiby, Shannling, Lotoo, or Cayin though. If you can get the first (discontinued) amp card they put out with the DX300 (amp11.1), rather than what has been put out since then (amp11.2), it is definitely more laid back, and might be right up your alley. Just last week I saw in the classifieds here a DX300 with the Amp11.1, and more powerful and wider sounding amp12 comes with it also.

On the other hand, if it doesn't HAVE to be portable, but can be transportable, you could keep the DAP you have, and get something like the Cayin C9 portable dual tube amplifier. Lots of people are calling it end game material for portable (though I have not heard it myself). That would definitely be more laid back I would think, but keep the technicalities.


----------



## LongNguyenHorn

samandhi said:


> If you want a laid back DAP, you might stay away from Fiio, and A&K as they tend to present on the aggressive side of neutral. I don't know much about the presentation of a TOTL Hiby, Shannling, Lotoo, or Cayin though. If you can get the first (discontinued) amp card they put out with the DX300 (amp11.1), rather than what has been put out since then (amp11.2), it is definitely more laid back, and might be right up your alley. Just last week I saw in the classifieds here a DX300 with the Amp11.1, and more powerful and wider sounding amp12 comes with it also.
> 
> On the other hand, if it doesn't HAVE to be portable, but can be transportable, you could keep the DAP you have, and get something like the Cayin C9 portable dual tube amplifier. Lots of people are calling it end game material for portable (though I have not heard it myself). That would definitely be more laid back I would think, but keep the technicalities.


Thank you but if i go to Totl i just stay with the DAP only and normal size like Hiby RS6 , Shanling M8, Ibasso DX300, WM1ZM2.... Because i also need to carry it on my jeans pocket to listen on bus, train with my iems.


----------



## samandhi

LongNguyenHorn said:


> Thank you but if i go to Totl i just stay with the DAP only and normal size like Hiby RS6 , Shanling M8, Ibasso DX300, WM1ZM2.... Because i also need to carry it on my jeans pocket to listen on bus, train with my iems.


Makes perfect sense! 

Let us know the route you end up with for your Chaconne?!


----------



## LongNguyenHorn

samandhi said:


> Makes perfect sense!
> 
> Let us know the route you end up with for your Chaconne?!


Thank you, soon i will buy one and update my journey in here.


----------



## samandhi

LongNguyenHorn said:


> Thank you, soon i will buy one and update my journey in here.


I am curious to hear how/if your impressions change with a new DAP/source...


----------



## LongNguyenHorn

samandhi said:


> I am curious to hear how/if your impressions change with a new DAP/source...


It change a lot but i need to find some compromise. Because getiing all instrument in the orchestra timbre right in one single driver already again natural. But find something acceptable to live with is much easier taks. It just us should choose which one better, suitable to personality. If not it is really like chasing down the rabit hole.
Very complex, like you sure want the best then u find it but also u should accept to live with not the "best" to see the happiness somehow LOL.


----------



## samandhi

LongNguyenHorn said:


> It change a lot but i need to find some compromise. Because getiing all instrument in the orchestra timbre right in one single driver already again natural. But find something acceptable to live with is much easier taks. It just us should choose which one better, suitable to personality. If not it is really like chasing down the rabit hole.
> Very complex, like you sure want the best then u find it but also u should accept to live with not the "best" to see the happiness somehow LOL.


I know what you mean. You will find it, I am sure!


----------



## LongNguyenHorn

samandhi said:


> I know what you mean. You will find it, I am sure!


Haha thank you. I'm also looking forward to it.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

A nice review of *2022 - RikuBuds Grand Rider 1 (130Ω Bery; Sweden DIY) **here*. Great to see known IEM fanatics giving flathead earbuds some love.


----------



## gazzington

Ordered some new blur buds today 😀


----------



## thedjkhalid

shoui catemoji said:


> I've been using the K'searphone LBBS for about a week, they have a lot of tonality problems that can be improved with EQ. I don't hear these buds as very neutral at all, they are rather W shaped. (mid bass/fundamental frequencies bloat, harsh shouty mids, peaky treble). I know the sound changes a lot depending on how you wear them, and I am wearing them so they sound their best.
> 
> After EQ these earbuds sound good, the imaging was already interesting which made it nice for acoustic music.
> 
> ...


Hi, I was wondering if you have an export for Peace APO or PEQ values for this curve?


----------



## Bloos

Are these Qian69 genuine? I thought they were discontinued?
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKjlW3Y


----------



## Gifting

Bloos said:


> Are these Qian69 genuine? I thought they were discontinued?
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKjlW3Y


I hope so. I ordered from them about a week ago and am waiting to receive them. I heard they’re an upgrade to the qian39 which I have. Hopefully they are.


----------



## Bloos

Gifting said:


> I hope so. I ordered from them about a week ago and am waiting to receive them. I heard they’re an upgrade to the qian39 which I have. Hopefully they are.


oh nice, I'd be interested in hearing an update once you get to try them


----------



## Gifting

Bloos said:


> oh nice, I'd be interested in hearing an update once you get to try them


Sure!


----------



## jogawag

Bloos said:


> Are these Qian69 genuine? I thought they were discontinued?
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKjlW3Y


It is also in Taobao, so it must be genuine.
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=557511401449


----------



## Headcasey MD

samandhi said:


> One just has to wait for these to be on sale. I grabbed mine for less than $100 about 6-8 months ago. Either way, they ARE fantastic though.


NO TAX direct from Smabat.  Just  $1.50 (standard) or $3 (expedited) ship fee.


----------



## Gifting (Jun 4, 2022)

Can anyone here recommend some good quality thin earbud foams? I recently bought some drivers from Aliexpress that @RikudouGoku recommended on his database list (Archer 1). They sound great! The best I’ve heard of any earbuds so far. Imaging, clarity, and details are great! However, the bass is overpowering when I put on the generic foams that came with the Tingo-TG38s or Vidos, even with the donut foams as well. Without them I find them bass light. But when I put 2-ply toilet paper on top, they sound perfect! It’s literally trashy but it works for me. I plan to use them in public and would love a foam alternative, haha.


----------



## assassin10000

Gifting said:


> Can anyone here recommend some good quality thin earbud foams? I recently bought some drivers from Aliexpress that @RikudouGoku recommended on his database list (Archer 1). They sound great! The best I’ve heard of any earbuds so far. Imaging, clarity, and details are great! However, the bass is overpowering when I put on the generic foams that came with the Tingo-TG38s or Vidos, even with the donut foams as well. Without them I find them bass light. But when I put 2-ply toilet paper on top, they sound perfect! It’s literally trashy but it works for me. I plan to use them in public and would love a foam alternative, haha.



See below.



assassin10000 said:


> Here you go:
> 
> Store link:
> https://trigrain518946.aliexpress.com/store/group/Foam-ear-pads/518946_509998943.html
> ...


----------



## Gifting

assassin10000 said:


> See below.


Thank you. I’ll check them out!


----------



## BobBeats

jogawag said:


> It is also in Taobao, so it must be genuine.
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=557511401449


My Qian69 came just came in from aliexpress.com/item/1005002275229979.html
I ordered on the May 22 the moment I seen them. They sound around the price point and fit well enough. Good warmth and nothing seems out of place tone wise. Mids are on the thicker side. Nothing sounds fatiguing or overly bright. Could use more sub bass.

No complaints other than the shirt clip broke when I tried to put it on. Minimum packaging: one pair of donuts, one pair of full foams, and no sack.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 5, 2022)

BobBeats said:


> My Qian69 came just came in from aliexpress.com/item/1005002275229979.html
> I ordered on the May 22 the moment I seen them. They sound around the price point and fit well enough. Good warmth and nothing seems out of place tone wise. Mids are on the thicker side. Nothing sounds fatiguing or overly bright. Could use more sub bass.


Have you tried going to sleep with them yet? That's when/where they really shine!



BobBeats said:


> No complaints other than the shirt clip broke when I tried to put it on.


I have broken dozens and dozens of these shirt cable clips over the years! One of the best clips I have ever had was the one provided by Shure with either my SE535LTD-J or SE215SPE-A... I can't remember which IEM can with the clip but it was surprisingly built like a tank!


----------



## BobBeats

WoodyLuvr said:


> Have you tried going to sleep with them yet? That's when/where they really shine!


I also have the Qian39 coming, that will be the sleep bud. So many buds to try.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 5, 2022)

BobBeats said:


> I also have the Qian39 coming, that will be the sleep bud. So many buds to try.


Jeez, I completely read those digits wrong and thought you had the Qian39 and not the Qian69. LOL!

The Qian69 is far more balanced than the Qian39 but the comfort is second best. I think you will like the comfort and warmer sound of the Qian39 for late night listening.


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Jeez, I completely read those digits wrong and thought you had the Qian39 and not the Qian69. LOL!
> 
> The Qian69 is far more balanced than the Qian39 but the comfort is second best. I think you will like the comfort and warmer sound of the Qian39 for late night listening.


Lisdexia @ its best, I tell ya'!


----------



## samandhi

Basscake said:


> Sorry


Reported! Sorry.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

So the original "Original Road" is back! Following hot on the heels of the NiceHCK 2022 reissue version of the Traceless Vido variant this 2022 Vido is back in purple and green!

*2022 - Vido 2022 原道 Yuán Dào "Original Road" (32Ω)*
2022 - NiceHCK Traceless v2022 (32Ω; Reissue in Transparent Shells)
2020 - NiceHCK Traceless (32Ω; Vido Variant)
2019 - NiceHCK 原道 Vido 9.9 (32Ω)
2012 - Vido 原道 Yuán Dào "Original Road" (32Ω) (edited)






https://tinyurl.com/2yuexnkh


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> So the original "Original Road" is back! Following hot on the heels of the NiceHCK 2022 reissue version of the Traceless Vido variant this 2022 Vido is back in purple and green!
> 
> *2022 - Vido 2022 原道 Yuán Dào "Original Road" (32Ω)*
> 2022 - NiceHCK Traceless v2022 (32Ω; Reissue in Transparent Shells)
> ...


Your like an earbud detective.... *@WoodyLuvr is: Flathead Sonic Sleuth (only on NBC @ 9 Eastern time)*...  (which is a good thing BTW).


----------



## Lunairee

Qian39 is currently what is plugged into my pc for random youtube-ing. Probably one of my most comfortable earbuds.
I agree it's quite a bit warmer than qian69. Both are quite good for the price. 
These days I don't tend to reach for either for actually listening to music though.

psa: avoid qian 49. It's one of the worst earbuds I have tried.


----------



## Telestar62

Finally got the Chaccone and are loving them, best earbud in my collection by far. But the Rose Martini are still peaking my interest. Do yall think they're worth getting if I have the Chaccone?


----------



## numon

smabat m4 has new earbud modular is in funding process text translate from images :iem,flat earbud and bluetooth mods possible.


----------



## syazwaned

Has anyone try Imperial Audio Titan 22? How it is compare to Blur pk32 256


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 7, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> Nice! Look forward to your reviews!
> 
> Unfortunately even a month is considered an eternity in CHIFI-land. Looks like a new SMABAT is releasing soon!





WoodyLuvr said:


> Wow!
> 
> Plus on the official Smabat website they are now only showing five (5) earbuds available: *M Pro*; *ST10s (Black & Gold)*; *ST20*; *ST20 Pro*; and* Super One*





numon said:


> smabat m4 has new earbud modular is in funding process text translate from images :iem,flat earbud and bluetooth mods possible.


Yes, we have been tracking this since 31 MAY.

Curiouser and curiouser! So very strange that still no impedance value is being offered and the official website has now simply become the splash page for the M4. No other earbuds are being shown (listed) as less than a week ago five (5) models were listed there still.

A dedicated *Svara - Smabat Models Timeline* can be found *here*.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 7, 2022)

syazwaned said:


> Has anyone try Imperial Audio Titan 22? How it is compare to Blur pk32 256


Wow! I completely forgot about Imperial Audio... are they still making earbuds? It is a Filipino DIY earbud/cable making company. I listened to their Phantom model back in 2019 but I unfortunately can't recall the tuning signature though. I do remember it was nicely made though.


----------



## ShaneyMac

WoodyLuvr said:


> Wow! I completely forgot about Imperial Audio... are they still making earbuds? It is a Filipino DIY earbud making company. I listened to their Phantom model back in 2019 but I unfortunately can't recall the tuning signature though. I do remember it was nicely made though.


There is surprisingly active DIY earbud scene in Philippines with quite a few small start-up businesses there. As far as I know, beside Imperial Audio there are: Stiks Audio, Shaytan Customs, Bag-o Audio, Just On Earbuds, 3K Audio, Aureus Audio, LREY Portable Music, Madcap Music... A truly impressive array, indeed. I wish they are little bit closer to me


----------



## WoodyLuvr

*2022 - RikuBuds Alter Rider 1 (32ΩBio)*

*

*


----------



## numon

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, we have been tracking this since 31 MAY.
> 
> Curiouser and curiouser! So very strange that still no impedance value is being offered and the official website has now simply become the splash page for the M4. No other earbuds are being shown (listed) as less than a week ago five (5) models were listed there still.
> 
> A dedicated *Svara - Smabat Models Timeline* can be found *here*.


18Hz-22kHz" "42Ω" "112dB"
link  https://www.smabat.com/smabat2/wap_pro/47360839.html
  crowdfunding is started i am thinking to order but price will be the half price  when officially released?how much did st20 cost on crowdfunding?if true ,i can order ,very versatile modules will be included later


----------



## WoodyLuvr

numon said:


> 18Hz-22kHz" "42Ω" "112dB"
> link  https://www.smabat.com/smabat2/wap_pro/47360839.html
> crowdfunding is started i am thinking to order but price will be the half price  when officially released?how much did st20 cost on crowdfunding?if true ,i can order ,very versatile modules will be included later


You are awesome! Thank you.


----------



## BobBeats

numon said:


> 18Hz-22kHz" "42Ω" "112dB"
> link  https://www.smabat.com/smabat2/wap_pro/47360839.html
> crowdfunding is started i am thinking to order but price will be the half price  when officially released?how much did st20 cost on crowdfunding?if true ,i can order ,very versatile modules will be included later


Also states LCP for the included driver.
Google translate on https://aimg8.dlssyht.cn/u/2188267/ueditor/image/1095/2188267/1654522060367998.jpg
The second-generation
dome LCP dynamic custom driver
unit has rich and detailed sound
quality, whether it is deep
and deep bass or crisp and pure
treble, every note is amazing


----------



## baskingshark

numon said:


> 18Hz-22kHz" "42Ω" "112dB"
> link  https://www.smabat.com/smabat2/wap_pro/47360839.html
> crowdfunding is started i am thinking to order but price will be the half price  when officially released?how much did st20 cost on crowdfunding?if true ,i can order ,very versatile modules will be included later



The ST20 and ST20 Pro were at around 50% pricing for crowdfunders previously.


----------



## numon

baskingshark said:


> The ST20 and ST20 Pro were at around 50% pricing for crowdfunders previously.


thanks.how is  half price this possible?any opinion?.built quality or quality control problems can be seen?


----------



## baskingshark

numon said:


> thanks.how is  half price this possible?any opinion?.built quality or quality control problems can be seen?



Well compared to boutique/western brands, CHIFI companies:
- don't spend so much on marketing/advertisements
- have economies of scale
- have much cheaper labour/materials - labour laws maybe sometimes are dodgy and workers get abused? Some materials are inherently found in China and parts are hence way cheaper
- may not be so strict on licensing, patents, QC

So all these make CHIFI much cheaper than western brands, in general. In fact, there was a lawsuit a few years back that Knowles claimed Bellsing copied their BA designs: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/cxqlje/knowles_files_claim_with_us_trade_commission_to/, so sometimes patents/licensing is a bit dodgy in China.

Probably it is not only CHIFI is cheaper, but perhaps western/boutique brands have also been eating a huge profit the past few decades, so it is somewhere in between. Well we as consumers have been benefiting from the cheap CHIFI gear the past few years in a way.


----------



## arar

Remembered my buds (though I can never remember what they were called, DIY... MX... 500... something, maybe) again and been enjoying them (again) and was thinking that I should give some other buds a try. Yall got recs for buds with _really_ intimate, forward, full-bodied and romantic vocals? Looking for something relatively cheap, so let's say 50 euros max.


----------



## Lunairee

nicehck diy mx500? 
if I remember correctly, that one is quite different from the sound you are asking for, right? 

really intimate forward, full-bodied vocal is usually more custom area I feel. The only mass produced one I can think of is the Victor earbud. But that comes with the bonus of weird timbre and weird asymetric cable. I bought it for... $3 but it's hard to find. 

But I will also be watching the reply to this question, since I also tend to like this kind of sound.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 8, 2022)

arar said:


> Remembered my buds (though I can never remember what they were called, DIY... MX... 500... something, maybe) again and been enjoying them (again) and was thinking that I should give some other buds a try. Yall got recs for buds with _really_ intimate, forward, full-bodied and romantic vocals? Looking for something relatively cheap, so let's say 50 euros max.


Vocals meaning female, male, or both? Romantic meaning warm & smooth (laid-back but still mid-centric) or rather sharp & detailed ("in-your face" forward)?
Help us out with some additional details and you'll surely get some solid recommendations and quite promptly 

I may have a few good recommendations myself to offer you once I better understand your preferences and use cases.

A *Flathead Earbud Recommendation Request Checklist* is *here*.​


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Lunairee said:


> nicehck diy mx500?
> if I remember correctly, that one is quite different from the sound you are asking for, right?
> 
> really intimate forward, full-bodied vocal is usually more custom area I feel. The only mass produced one I can think of is the *Victor* earbud. But that comes with the bonus of weird timbre and weird asymetric cable. I bought it for... $3 but it's hard to find.
> ...


When you say "_Victor_" are you referring to *JVC-Japan Victor Co. *which produced and branded a good number of their earbuds as "_Victor_" and not "_JVC_" and they were indeed quite mid-forward in tuning... or are you referring to some other model and brand?


----------



## arar (Jun 8, 2022)

Lunairee said:


> nicehck diy mx500?
> if I remember correctly, that one is quite different from the sound you are asking for, right?
> 
> really intimate forward, full-bodied vocal is usually more custom area I feel. The only mass produced one I can think of is the Victor earbud. But that comes with the bonus of weird timbre and weird asymetric cable. I bought it for... $3 but it's hard to find.
> ...



NiceHCK DIY MX500--yeah, that's the one. And yeah, if I were to describe how these sound to me, I think I'd say they're fairly balanced and realistic-sounding with a midbass bump (good tactile impact), so I'm definitely looking for something different.



WoodyLuvr said:


> Help us out with some additional details and you'll surely get some solid recommendations and quite promptly
> 
> A *Flathead Earbud Recommendation Request Checklist* is *here*.​



Hope this doesn't sound too obnoxious, but honestly none of the other parts really matter to me (I listen to so much different stuff that it's not worth listing every use case, 3.5mm to Qudelix 5k is my main driver but it also varies plus I have adapters, etc.) and I'm not sure if I'm able to elaborate better lol. Most of all I'm still trying to figure out what it is that makes vocals _pop_ for me--previously I had always thought warm intuitively meant intimate and "romantic" vocals too, but then I listen to something like the Meze 99 Classics and the vocals are just pushed back and awful, and it's like.. what the hell is it, then?

So I'm curious about buds (and IEMs, and cans, but off-topic here) that have made the vocal-loving folks of this thread go "wow, these vocals are intimate/full-bodied/forward to an unrealistic degree but darn if the end result isn't pleasant", you know?

I guess it's a mid-forward tuning I'm looking for, then, but I've never heard of anyone talk about a ꓵ-shaped tuning so I was wondering if that was actually a thing or if it's just something that sounds good on paper but not so good in reality.

edit: I suppose you could say that I'm more interested in hearing _impressions_ from others rather than recommendations, per se? I don't know if that makes any sense.


----------



## Lunairee

WoodyLuvr said:


> When you say "_Victor_" are you referring to *JVC-Japan Victor Co. *which produced and branded a good number of their earbuds as "_Victor_" and not "_JVC_" and they were indeed quite mid-forward in tuning... or are you referring to some other model and brand?






I'm referring to this thing. 
On the market place and forum, it's just referred to as Victor Earbud. 

@arar the sound you are looking for exist, I have a few in my library. But... they are mostly custom. It sounds like that because I request that sound from the builder. 

for IEM I really like the vocal on mangird Tea2 (not sure I'm allowed to mention iem on this earbud thread?)


----------



## arar

Custom earbuds, eh. Did not know those were even a thing in earbuds, but it's becoming increasingly obvious to me as I age that I just don't know crap about anything. Are these like random aliexpress sellers you email, or other forum-goers, or...? I might be interested in trying a custom pair too.



Lunairee said:


> for IEM I really like the vocal on mangird Tea2 (not sure I'm allowed to mention iem on this earbud thread?)



I shall mourn your fate when the banhammer hits you, and thank you for your courageous sacrifice  (Thanks, I'll look into those, too!)


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Lunairee said:


> I'm referring to this thing.
> On the market place and forum, it's just referred to as Victor Earbud.


Yep, JVC! See the little doggie listening to the phonograph logo just before the "V".



Lunairee said:


> for IEM I really like the vocal on mangird Tea2 (not sure I'm allowed to mention iem on this earbud thread?)


Sacrilege! Burn the IEM heretic! Be gone! Be gone! Be gone IEM lover! Down with IEMs! 
Just joking, all good here.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 8, 2022)

arar said:


> NiceHCK DIY MX500--yeah, that's the one. And yeah, if I were to describe how these sound to me, I think I'd say they're fairly balanced and realistic-sounding with a midbass bump (good tactile impact), so I'm definitely looking for something different.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, not obnoxious but it does make it difficult for us to help you. The checklist is more for us to better understand your situation and what you after exactly (we are not mind readers, LOL!). Prevents us from going in the wrong direction and/or in complete circles! 

Do you generally prefer bright or warm signatures? How about Aggressive or Dark? Do you listen for a long period of time if so some signatures can be quite fatiguing after some time so thus why we ask that question. Do you listen at home or on the bus? Again, some signatures perform better in different environments. Source is important so we don't offer difficult to drive, power hungry higher impedance earbuds... but your Qudelix 5K will drive most anything that we would recommend so it was good you offered that bit of information (so you see the checklist is not for naught ).

I was thinking maybe something like Asian "Female Poison" tuning might be what you are after as it is excellent for intimate forward vocals but I am not quite sure I fully understand what you are after though sorry. "Female Poison" although Forward may be too Aggressive for your liking, tastes, and with certain genres and recordings.

Yes, "Inverted U-Shape" exists and lays in the mid-centric region between Forward Mids and Neutral (more *here*):


Spoiler: Sound Charts











One suggestion for an "Inverted U-Shape" sound is *Ks Bell-LBBs* but there have been some mix-ups between the Bell-LBS and the Bell-LBBs models (they are entirely different) and QA/QC issues so be forewarned (you can search the thread for more info).


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 8, 2022)

arar said:


> Custom earbuds, eh. Did not know those were even a thing in earbuds, but it's becoming increasingly obvious to me as I age that I just don't know crap about anything. Are these like random aliexpress sellers you email, or other forum-goers, or...? I might be interested in trying a custom pair too.


There are a number of members on this here thread that make custom earbuds for sale... I just posted a *pic* of one earlier today (just seven posts above your first post today) with a link to his IG to buy it.

Newbsound formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black *@irv003 *
TGXEAR *@tgx78*
RikuBuds *@RikudouGoku*
Valphonics aka ValBuds *@ValSuki *

Another custom earbud maker is Blur (more *here*).

Or simply scan the *ꟻ⅃ATHEAD TIME⅃IИƎ* linked in my signature and you can see there are a lot of custom makers out there producing earbuds prolifically.

Other custom earbud makers can be found on Facebook Groups like _Earbuds_ _Anonymous _or _Earbud Lover Indonesia_


----------



## arar (Jun 8, 2022)

Oh got it, I understand the point of the questions a bit better now, @WoodyLuvr.

Well, to keep things short and simple, I definitely prefer warmer and darker tunings, I've found that warm _usually_ means that there's a nice bit of extra body or thickness to the sound that I find pleasant (since among the various genres I listen to is stuff like punk and other lo-fi stuff), and darker since I'm a bit sensitive to treble, but not so sensitive that it'd have to be like, black as midnight on a moonless night or anything like that. Just a bit relaxed on the treble is good. I really only use them in-doors at my or the partner's place, so outside noise is not a concern.

That said, the mid/vocal-centric buds I am looking to try now don't have to be warm or dark, I'm not looking for more of the same of what I already have and enjoy, necessarily. A unicorn pair that did everything I wanted them to do perfectly would be awesome, obviously, but right now I'm specifically interested in broadening my horizons, stepping out of the comfort zone for a bit if that's necessary.


----------



## jao29

Does anyone own the Jcally EP05? What’s it sound signature?


----------



## Lunairee

of course before going custom... might be a good idea to narrow down your preference first. Otherwise you will get even more headache from all the options...

full-bodied to me means some mid-bass, and lower mids emphasis. (as opposed to the bright and usually thinner female poison type)
but faster and clean bass, so it doesn't bleed into the mids and the Vocal stays clear.

basically it sounds like my preferred tuning. but...  in this hobby we often use the same words to mean different thing 

oh you replied in the mean time. So yeah, we have similar preferred tuning it sounds like.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Lunairee said:


> of course before going custom... might be a good idea to narrow down your preference first. Otherwise you will get even more headache from all the options...
> 
> full-bodied to me means some mid-bass, and lower mids emphasis. (as opposed to the bright and usually thinner female poison type)
> but faster and clean bass, so it doesn't bleed into the mids and the Vocal stays clear.


Very well said. Concur completely! This is excellent advice.


----------



## arar

Lunairee said:


> of course before going custom... might be a good idea to narrow down your preference first. Otherwise you will get even more headache from all the options...
> 
> full-bodied to me means some mid-bass, and lower mids emphasis. (as opposed to the bright and usually thinner female poison type)
> but faster and clean bass, so it doesn't bleed into the mids and the Vocal stays clear.
> ...



Cool, yeah, it does sound like we like the same things! Lending some real authority to your Tea 2 rec at the very least, dang shame I can't afford to drop 300+ in IEMs right now.

I'll have to look into the Ks Bell-LBBs and the Victors. In the mean time would love to hear thoughts from others, too.


----------



## Lunairee

I will say, LBBS didn't quite scratch that itch for me on the vocal front. 

But with that said, I'm really interested to see what other people recommend too. 

(The sad part about custom is... the set I'm listening to right now would fit your request. Except it's custom, the builder didn't speak English, and I'm pretty sure he no longer remember the recipe for this set. )


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 8, 2022)

Perhaps *Rose Technics Maria I & II* or *DQSM Audio Turandot* but again they may be too thin as they lean to the aggressive brighter side of things and of course these are way out of your price range... as would be a *Blur 266R MX150 aPs Reference Retune* or soon coming *Blur 266R MX300 aPs Reference Retune* which could possibly have Blur's "vocal-focused" tuning applied if requested (similar tuning to the older _Blur MX300 美魔女 Beautiful Witch_ series which was stellar for vocals).

For Euro 50 you might consider *@RikudouGoku*'s* RikuBuds Archer 1* or he might have a better suggestion for another model in his line-up.


----------



## mochill

I've pre order the smabat M4 😁


----------



## jogawag

Does anyone know what the Newbsound 32X driver is?


----------



## yaps66

jao29 said:


> Does anyone own the Jcally EP05? What’s it sound signature?


What it lacks in clarity it more than makes up in being musical and engaging! Love it!


----------



## rprodrigues

yaps66 said:


> What it lacks in clarity it more than makes up in being musical and engaging! Love it!


I second that.


----------



## mt877

Nobody has said anything yet, but could the Smabat M4 be the first as designed by a manufacturer true wireless set of flathead buds?
The M4 modular design and concept is much better than their previous releases.


----------



## rkw

mt877 said:


>


"Enjoy the shock of high frequency" isn't what I want


----------



## mt877

rkw said:


> "Enjoy the shock of high frequency" isn't what I want


Heh, heh. Maybe it's a clue that Smabat is going for Hi-Res certification with the IEM module?... minimum 40kHz to join the Hi-Res club. No worries you won't even hear it, but your dog will. (Ok, maybe you don't have a dog, but just sayin')


----------



## mochill

jogawag said:


> Does anyone know what the Newbsound 32X driver is?


It is something you need ASAP 😁


----------



## samandhi

Tonight's treat for my ears (these still sound fantastic) :



Spoiler: DX300 > Smabat ST10S Gold (150Ohm)


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Tonight's treat for my ears (these still sound fantastic) :
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: DX300 > Smabat ST10S Gold (150Ohm)


Nice. My ST10s BG was shipped out, hopefully will get them soon.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Nice. My ST10s BG was shipped out, hopefully will get them soon.


Why were they shipped out? Bad driver?


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Why were they shipped out? Bad driver?


Nah, I bought them direct from Smabat when they were on sale (a couple weeks ago?) and should be getting them soon. Funny thing is a week after I bought them Smabat removed all buds from their website and only have M4 listed now. Maybe they were clearing inventory or building up some funds for the coming M4 release? So all is good.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Nah, I bought them direct from Smabat when they were on sale (a couple weeks ago?) and should be getting them soon. Funny thing is a week after I bought them Smabat removed all buds from their website and only have M4 listed now. Maybe they were clearing inventory or building up some funds for the coming M4 release? So all is good.


OIC! I thought you had issues.... Glad to hear you are getting them soon then! You will have to share your thoughts after you get aquainted with them?!


----------



## arar

WoodyLuvr said:


> Perhaps *Rose Technics Maria I & II* or *DQSM Audio Turandot* but again they may be too thin as they lean to the aggressive brighter side of things and of course these are way out of your price range... as would be a *Blur 266R MX150 aPs Reference Retune* or soon coming *Blur 266R MX300 aPs Reference Retune* which could possibly have Blur's "vocal-focused" tuning applied if requested (similar tuning to the older _Blur MX300 美魔女 Beautiful Witch_ series which was stellar for vocals).
> 
> For Euro 50 you might consider *@RikudouGoku*'s* RikuBuds Archer 1* or he might have a better suggestion for another model in his line-up.



Awesome, thank you, I'll read up on these! A few names to start with--like these--is great, even if some of them are out of my budget right now I can look at what folks who liked them like, search for potential comparisons, etc.

And speaking of names, boy do I love some of these lol. And here I thought Sony was bad at naming their audio gear.


----------



## Ronion (Jun 9, 2022)

rkw said:


> "Enjoy the shock of high frequency" isn't what I want


Which has been the issue with SMABATs tunings.  They do bass really well also, but that 2.5kHz spike they like to build in to their house sound will fry an egg.  I’m told not all of them have this and the old M2s pro had it to a limited degree.  The ST20 pro is nothing short of BRUTAL.  I EQed like 15dB out of 2.5kHz.  It reminds me of these 2 stray cats in the neighborhood.  One is male and the other female.  When they get together, it sounds like my ST20 pro.


----------



## Lunairee

ouch... so... avoid smabat. I will try to make mental note of that


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Which has been the issue with SMABATs tunings.  They do bass really well also, but that 2.5kHz spike they like to build in to their house sound will fry an egg.  I’m told not all of them have this and the old M2s pro had it to a limited degree.  The ST20 pro is nothing short of BRUTAL.  I EQed like 15dB out of 2.5kHz.  It reminds me of these 2 stray cats in the neighborhood.  One is male and the other female.  When they get together, it sounds like my ST20 pro.


I love the analogy! 


Lunairee said:


> ouch... so... avoid smabat. I will try to make mental note of that


I wouldn't dismiss them out of hand just yet. Though it DOES sound like their newer buds, from hearing others talk about them (ST20, and ST20Pro), seems boosted over their normal levels, the M2s Pro and ST10S Gold aren't really any more boosted in that region than most other brands out there (from what I hear with my collection). It seems to be a common practice to boost this region on earbuds IME. If you are looking for a pair that isn't boosted in this area at all, you may have a hard time with earbuds (that's not to say they don't exist though).

On the other hand, I could just be so sensitive to a boosted presence region that I think all of them are a bit that way?!


----------



## waynes world

samandhi said:


> I love the analogy!
> 
> I wouldn't dismiss them out of hand just yet. Though it DOES sound like their newer buds, from hearing others talk about them (ST20, and ST20Pro), seems boosted over their normal levels, the M2s Pro and ST10S Gold aren't really any more boosted in that region than most other brands out there (from what I hear with my collection). It seems to be a common practice to boost this region on earbuds IME. If you are looking for a pair that isn't boosted in this area at all, you may have a hard time with earbuds (that's not to say they don't exist though).
> 
> On the other hand, I could just be so sensitive to a boosted presence region that I think all of them are a bit that way?!



I'm fairly sensitive to that region as well. I've been listening to the ST10S Gold's quite a bit recently, and I love them. Occasionally a track might come along that doesn't work well for me through the Gold's, but there's no way I'm going to stop listening to them - I just skip the track (those songs are typically not my cup of tea anyway).


----------



## mt877

Looks like Smabat just made the M4 IEM and Bluetooth modules available for pre-purchase.

They didn't publish any specs for the Bluetooth modules (codecs, chipset, etc.)

IEM will be a full range balanced armature. More pictures of IEM and Bluetooth modules at their site.


----------



## jogawag

Charlyro222 said:


> Newbsound 32x Just arrived today, tomorrow will test it.


How did Newbsound 32x sound compared to Newbsound 32pro?


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Looks like Smabat just made the M4 IEM and Bluetooth modules available for pre-purchase.
> 
> They didn't publish any specs for the Bluetooth modules (codecs, chipset, etc.)
> 
> IEM will be a full range balanced armature. More pictures of IEM and Bluetooth modules at their site.


Very interesting modular design.


----------



## h810

jao29 said:


> Does anyone own the Jcally EP05? What’s it sound signature?


I do, It is very good, the original cable is the worst part, but since it is interchangeable, it's not a problem. I would say that it sounds very natural. The bass thump is good, and the highs are crisp. This is however, after I covered 80% of the back ports, since they don't allow enough bass to be built up. so, after that little mod, they are fantastic.


----------



## Bloos (Jun 9, 2022)

arar said:


> _really_ intimate, forward, full-bodied and romantic vocals


NiceHCK EB2S with full foams may be to your liking.
It's probably my favorite out of the twenty or so buds I've gotten recently. It doesn't have the most bass nor aggressive highs. But it places vocals front and center, both in tuning and soundstage-wise imho, kinda like my hd650s.
However, it is quite position dependent, you may need to play with the fit for a bit before it sounds right. But once I get it in the right place it's secure and I don't need to worry about it, at least for my ears.

I also got the nicehck mx500 with the silver looking cable, and I love those for their wide soundstage and bass, but ya their vocals aren't very forward.


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Very interesting modular design.


The design was well thought out. More user friendly than previous models with easy to swap modules. It would be nice if they had some specs.


----------



## Lunairee

hm... i need to re-try eb2s with hiegi huh... 
a lot of people seems to like this earbud. It didn't capture my interest much... wondering what I'm missing. 

But might also be because I'm spoiled with the customs and DIY earbuds from builders.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 10, 2022)

Lunairee said:


> hm... i need to re-try eb2s with hiegi huh...
> a lot of people seems to like this earbud. It didn't capture my interest much... wondering what I'm missing.
> 
> But might also be because I'm spoiled with the customs and DIY earbuds from builders.


Concur, I think some of us are *quite* spoiled! You are missing a lot!

Not saying that the NiceHCK EB2S is a bad earbud, it's not. It's simply a boring and lack luster one due to a slower driver... at least in comparison to what's out there these days. Again, for the price the EB2S is great and quite suitable for a lot of listening applications... although, I do think it's older brother the ME80 could easily do circles around it.

Speaking of which, I really wished NiceHCK had evolved this model further with another budget version called the ME80s as previously suggested by *@RikudouGoku* but grander plans were at work here... for those that haven't figured it out already the *DQSM Audio PD21* is the evolutionary replacement of: 2017 - NiceHCK EBX (32Ω) 2019 >>> NiceHCK ME80 (34Ω). Just under a different label but clearly made by the same factory. The earlier models were launched at a lower level for testing and marketing viability. Though not quite as well made and tuned as the DQSM Audio PD21 the ME80 was one amazing earbud for the price.


----------



## Ronion

Lunairee said:


> ouch... so... avoid smabat. I will try to make mental note of that


Not necessarily.  Their older designs were closer to neutral with great bass.  


samandhi said:


> I love the analogy!
> 
> I wouldn't dismiss them out of hand just yet. Though it DOES sound like their newer buds, from hearing others talk about them (ST20, and ST20Pro), seems boosted over their normal levels, the M2s Pro and ST10S Gold aren't really any more boosted in that region than most other brands out there (from what I hear with my collection). It seems to be a common practice to boost this region on earbuds IME. If you are looking for a pair that isn't boosted in this area at all, you may have a hard time with earbuds (that's not to say they don't exist though).
> 
> On the other hand, I could just be so sensitive to a boosted presence region that I think all of them are a bit that way?!


As Samandhi states here.  They also make some of the best, if not the absolute best bud drivers


----------



## arar

Bloos said:


> NiceHCK EB2S with full foams may be to your liking.
> It's probably my favorite out of the twenty or so buds I've gotten recently. It doesn't have the most bass nor aggressive highs. But it places vocals front and center, both in tuning and soundstage-wise imho, kinda like my hd650s.
> However, it is quite position dependent, you may need to play with the fit for a bit before it sounds right. But once I get it in the right place it's secure and I don't need to worry about it, at least for my ears.



Ooh, these sound promising! Definitely ordering a pair when I get paid later this month. Thanks!


----------



## samandhi

arar said:


> Ooh, these sound promising! Definitely ordering a pair when I get paid later this month. Thanks!


They are good sounding buds (to my ears). YMMV! But, like @WoodyLuvr alluded to, they aren't some giant killer buds though. Having said that though, I would buy them again. They are very fun to listen to.


----------



## arar

samandhi said:


> They are good sounding buds (to my ears). YMMV! But, like @WoodyLuvr alluded to, they aren't some giant killer buds though. Having said that though, I would buy them again. They are very fun to listen to.



Oh yeah, totally missed Woody's comment on it. I'll keep that in mind! I'm of course not expecting a miracle, it _is _just a 30-euro pair of buds at the end of the day.


----------



## Lunairee

WoodyLuvr said:


> Not saying that the NiceHCK EB2S is a bad earbud, it's not. It's simply a boring and lack luster one due to a slower driver... at least in comparison to what's out there these days. Again, for the price the EB2S is great and quite suitable for a lot of listening applications... although, I do think it's older brother the ME80 could easily do circles around it.


yeah this is more or less my take on the EB2S too. It's not bad, but not special.
I listened to it for a few songs, then switch to something else.


----------



## Black-Wolf

jogawag said:


> How did Newbsound 32x sound compared to Newbsound 32pro?


Very curious too about the 32X.
I own a pair of 32 (fantastic earbuds) and i wonder what's new with this model. @irv003 is a discrete guy who don't communicate a lot about his new creations (maybe on Insta but i don't have an account)


----------



## waynes world

Black-Wolf said:


> Very curious too about the 32X.
> *I own a pair of 32 (fantastic earbuds)* and i wonder what's new with this model. @irv003 is a discrete guy who don't communicate a lot about his new creations (maybe on Insta but i don't have an account)



Totally agree.


----------



## waynes world

mochill said:


> Deep bass you need kube



Big bass (ie mid bass) for sure! They are incredibly addictive!

For deep bass (ie sub-bass) and more detailed bass, ST10s gold's are hard to beat (at least from those in my collection).


----------



## FranQL (Jun 10, 2022)

waynes world said:


> Big bass (ie mid bass) for sure! They are incredibly addictive!
> 
> For deep bass (ie sub-bass) and more detailed bass, ST10s gold's are hard to beat (at least from those in my collection).



ST20 is at a very high level in terms of subbass, but I can't hear it from stock


----------



## Ronion (Jun 11, 2022)

The ST10 gold drivers are the best bass I’ve heard in a bud in the M2s pro shell.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> The ST10 gold drivers are the best bass I’ve heard in a bud in the M2s pro shell.


I may have asked this before in the past, but have you compared the actual ST10S gold, and the Gold driver in the M2s Pro shell? Just curious if they sound alike or better, worse, etc... I am still considering buying all the different drivers (and maybe filters too), rather than get a new set of buds (yet). I have always planned on doing it sooner or later, I just never gotten to it.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 14, 2022)

*Venture Electronics (VE) Master* launched though no specs yet... perhaps it is the previously mentioned 150Ω variant of the Monk Slim Metal or simply a recable of the Monk Slim Metal. Anyone know/have the the details regarding this new earbud model?

*2022 - VE Master (80ΩLCP; Metal (?) MX Shell; SPC cable)*


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Venture Electronics (VE) Master* launched though no specs yet... perhaps it is the previously mentioned 150Ω variant of the Monk Slim Metal or simply a recable of the Monk Slim Metal. Anyone know/have the the details regarding this new earbud model?


I don't think it is a recable because looking here the slim (which is written on the bud) has the same cable as your picture and this video (which have Master written on the bud). Still looking for specs though.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> I may have asked this before in the past, but have you compared the actual ST10S gold, and the Gold driver in the M2s Pro shell? Just curious if they sound alike or better, worse, etc... I am still considering buying all the different drivers (and maybe filters too), rather than get a new set of buds (yet). I have always planned on doing it sooner or later, I just never gotten to it.


I wish I had.  The ST10 gold sounds awesome from the descriptions I’ve read.  That driver sounds awesome in the M2s pro as well, but does have too much of the SMABAT house sound.  Most recordings seem to be fine with it however.

I believe SMABAT is going to discontinue that whole line so you may want to get on that one.  Then Let us know what you think.  When your wife gets mad, tell her @FranQL suggested it.


----------



## Charlyro222

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Venture Electronics (VE) Master* launched though no specs yet... perhaps it is the previously mentioned 150Ω variant of the Monk Slim Metal or simply a recable of the Monk Slim Metal. Anyone know/have the the details regarding this new earbud model?


My Masters arrived 1 month ago, still no checked .
A lot of stuff for unboxing.


----------



## rprodrigues

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Venture Electronics (VE) Master* launched though no specs yet... perhaps it is the previously mentioned 150Ω variant of the Monk Slim Metal or simply a recable of the Monk Slim Metal. Anyone know/have the the details regarding this new earbud model?


https://shopee.ph/product/323346871...iW-TeTn5N-EYTZIsVT5UxQV9pr52lUxWhfBeKoSKLJKGk


----------



## Charlyro222 (Jun 11, 2022)

Ve Monk Go Spc is great for Pop, Rock. Fast bass.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> I wish I had.  The ST10 gold sounds awesome from the descriptions I’ve read.  That driver sounds awesome in the M2s pro as well, but does have too much of the SMABAT house sound.  Most recordings seem to be fine with it however.
> 
> I believe SMABAT is going to discontinue that whole line so you may want to get on that one.  Then Let us know what you think.  When your wife gets mad, tell her @FranQL suggested it.


I find that the M2s Pro stock driver has more of that house sound than the ST10S Gold, but again, I can't speak for the 150Ohm driver in the M2s Pro... We'll see I suppose. Maybe the design of the shell changes it a bit???

OH! I guess I better get on it. I will have a look this weekend. I have the new Amp13 Korg Nutube amp card for the DX300 on the way. The tubes aren't changeable so, I am hoping they put some good "tubeness" into them for me... 

Lol I already told her it was @FranQL's fault even before you suggested it.... 



Charlyro222 said:


> Ve Master is great for Pop, Rock. Fast bass.


I think those aren't the Masters??? Or did you put the cable and drivers into a monk shell? Or am I missing something?


----------



## Charlyro222

samandhi said:


> I find that the M2s Pro stock driver has more of that house sound than the ST10S Gold, but again, I can't speak for the 150Ohm driver in the M2s Pro... We'll see I suppose. Maybe the design of the shell changes it a bit???
> 
> OH! I guess I better get on it. I will have a look this weekend. I have the new Amp13 Korg Nutube amp card for the DX300 on the way. The tubes aren't changeable so, I am hoping they put some good "tubeness" into them for me...
> 
> ...


You were right, sorry, is monk go spc, a lot of Ve Stuff over here.


----------



## FranQL

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Venture Electronics (VE) Master* launched though no specs yet... perhaps it is the previously mentioned 150Ω variant of the Monk Slim Metal or simply a recable of the Monk Slim Metal. Anyone know/have the the details regarding this new earbud model?
> 
> *2022 - VE Master (80ΩLCP; PK Metal Shell; SPC cable)*


 its shell MX500


----------



## jeejack (Jun 11, 2022)

FranQL said:


> its shell MX500


Yes


samandhi said:


> I find that the M2s Pro stock driver has more of that house sound than the ST10S Gold, but again, I can't speak for the 150Ohm driver in the M2s Pro... We'll see I suppose. Maybe the design of the shell changes it a bit???
> 
> OH! I guess I better get on it. I will have a look this weekend. I have the new Amp13 Korg Nutube amp card for the DX300 on the way. The tubes aren't changeable so, I am hoping they put some good "tubeness" into them for me...
> 
> ...


ST10s 150ohm is better in MX500 shells
BTW...32 ohm bery sound awesome in M2pro shell


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> I wish I had.  The ST10 gold sounds awesome from the descriptions I’ve read.  That driver sounds awesome in the M2s pro as well, but does have too much of the SMABAT house sound.  Most recordings seem to be fine with it however.
> 
> I believe SMABAT is going to discontinue that whole line so you may want to get on that one.  Then Let us know what you think.  When your wife gets mad, tell her @FranQL suggested it.


Ok, ordered 5 of the 6 drivers (not the standard 40Ohm that comes with). Will not be here soon though...  Did you also get the Super One driver?


----------



## samandhi

jeejack said:


> Yes
> 
> ST10s 150ohm is better in MX500 shells
> BTW...32 ohm bery sound awesome in M2pro shell


Just ordered...  Thanks for the rec!


----------



## jeejack

samandhi said:


> Ok, ordered 5 of the 6 drivers (not the standard 40Ohm that comes with). Will not be here soon though...  Did you also get the Super One driver?


@Rary have them


----------



## samandhi

Sorry bout' that, I actually ordered 4 of the 5 drivers from Smabat.... DOH!


----------



## ValSuki

Anyone have any reccs for wooden backplates? Its cosmetic but i'm looking for ideas! Walnut is a winner so far but I would love something exotic potentially...



(Only a prototype)


----------



## WoodyLuvr

jeejack said:


> Yes
> 
> ST10s 150ohm is better in MX500 shells
> BTW...32 ohm bery sound awesome in M2pro shell


Beautiful cabling there mate! Thank you for sharing the pic!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

ValSuki said:


> Anyone have any reccs for wooden backplates? Its cosmetic but i'm looking for ideas! Walnut is a winner so far but I would love something exotic potentially...
> 
> (Only a prototype)


Absolutely brilliant! So reassuring and comforting to see this strong effort to evolve earbuds! Too excited. Hooray!


----------



## mt877 (Jun 12, 2022)

6 add-on driver units for Smabat M4 is released...

But which ones get the seal of good performance? Seems like ST10s Black Gold driver is a no brainer from this threads general recommendation of ST10s BG performance.

40Ω dome LCP driver





Titanium-coated diaphragm 40Ω driver





ST10s Black Gold 150Ω titanium dome high impedance driver





Super One 100Ω driver





ST20pro Black Coated Biofilm 100Ω Driver





ST20 Large Size LCP Diaphragm 40Ω Driver Unit


----------



## numon (Jun 12, 2022)

mt877 said:


> 6 add-on driver units for Smabat M4 is released...
> 
> But which ones get the seal of good performance? Seems like ST10s Black Gold driver is a no brainer from this threads general recommendation of ST10s BG performance.
> 
> ...


i ordered main m4 and i wonder  if  why  named  driver  st20pro  as it isnt hybrid as original st20pro earbud?


----------



## mt877 (Jun 12, 2022)

numon said:


> i ordered main m4 and i wonder  if  why  named  driver  st20pro  as it isnt hybrid as original st20pro earbud?


My best guess is that it is just one of the add-on drivers for ST20pro that Smabat found sounds good with the new M4 design? Others that have the ST20pro can answer for the sound quality of ST20pro Black Coated Biofilm 100Ω driver if they bought it before.

One other thing, they list the ST20pro Black Coated Biofilm 100Ω and ST20 Large Size LCP Diaphragm 40Ω add-on drivers as smaller size 'for friends with small ears', so maybe they wanted to find good sounding drivers that will be comfortable for people with smaller ears and those two were it.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Ok, ordered 5 of the 6 drivers (not the standard 40Ohm that comes with). Will not be here soon though...  Did you also get the Super One driver?


I have the SO driver.  Both the SO AND 150ti are worth owning.  The 150ti is a tight music making machine where the SO is a bit more forgiving and has less bass.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> I have the SO driver.  Both the SO AND 150ti are worth owning.  The 150ti is a tight music making machine where the SO is a bit more forgiving and has less bass.


Excellent! I can't wait to try all the flavors...


----------



## WoodyLuvr

samandhi said:


> Excellent! I can't wait to try all the flavors...


Rabbit holes within rabbit holes combined with a large group of "enablers"... a good recipe for "wallet disaster"!


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Rabbit holes within rabbit holes combined with a large group of "enablers"... a good recipe for "wallet disaster"!


I would say you have NO IDEA, but after hearing (just) part of your collection over the years, you know all too well indeed!


----------



## dissociativity (Jun 13, 2022)

wait, the smabat m4 can be a TWS modular earbud? I'm sold


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Nov 6, 2022)

Finally got some clarification on* 龙谣音曼 Longyao-Yinman* right from the horse's mouth to say.

*2016 - Yinman 音曼 150; **150Ω* (no wooden stem; fixed cable)​*2016 - Yinman 音曼 500; 500Ω* (no wooden stem; fixed cable)​*2016 - Yinman 音曼 600; 640Ω* (no wooden stem; fixed cable; impedance was higher than the listed 600Ω)​*2016 - Yinman 音曼 2.0 醇净 150; 150Ω *(no wooden stem; fixed cable)​*2016 - Yinman 音曼 2.0 醇净 500; 500Ω *(no wooden stem; fixed cable)​*2016 (2018/2019/2021) - Yinman 音曼 2.0 醇净 600; 600Ω* (no wooden stem; mmcx)​​*2017 - Yinman 音曼 64; 64Ω* (MX500 shell type; fixed cable)​​*2019 - Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 DR08; 32/150Ω *(w/ long wooden stem; fixed cable)​​*2021 - Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 DR09; 32Ω* (w/ long wooden stem; fixed cable)​*2021 - Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 Green Bull 青牛; 32/150Ω* (w/ long wooden stem; fixed cable)​​*2022 - Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600 LE; 600Ω *(w/ long wooden stem; fixed cable; sensitivity rating 87dB/mW)​
So apparently the MMCX version, only the _*Yinman 音曼 2.0 醇净 600*_ ("醇净" <<Chún Jìng>> = "Pure/Purified") that was first launched back in 2016, has been reissued three (3) times in low-count 'limited reruns' in 2018, 2019, and recently in 2021 which is now again completely sold out.

Due to recent high demand Longyao-Yinman has launched a new 2022 model, the *Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600 Limited Edition*, in fixed cabling only and using similar wooden shells with the long wooden stems as seen on the 2019 DR08; 2021 DR09; and 2019 Green Bull 青牛 models. Original 2016 Yinman fixed cable models did not have these long wooden stems.

*Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 Earbuds Timeline*


----------



## mt877 (Jun 13, 2022)

ValSuki said:


> Anyone have any reccs for wooden backplates? Its cosmetic but i'm looking for ideas! Walnut is a winner so far but I would love something exotic potentially...
> 
> (Only a prototype)


Since you're in the UK, here's a link to Etsy UK for burl veneer sheets. Not suggesting you buy from there, the sample pictures can give you some ideas. If the insert will only be 5.89mm diameter then you don't have a lot of surface to work with to show off nice wood patterns / grain. Anyway hope the link will give you some ideas.


----------



## numon

about  smabat m4  driver connection to main case. will it be secure  and durable?i understand that the design is like this; turning driver 1.5 turn ,2 pin will  touch the  gold palted part on main part. but if silicon inside the main part get loose or  turning driver can cause stratches.  what do you think about new driver connect design ?


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Excellent! I can't wait to try all the flavors...


I’ve actually tried them all.  The worst one IMO is the one it comes with.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> I’ve actually tried them all.  The worst one IMO is the one it comes with.


WOW! Then they should all be good then, because I like the stock driver..


----------



## Kumonomukou

Ronion said:


> I wish I had.  The ST10 gold sounds awesome from the descriptions I’ve read.  That driver sounds awesome in the M2s pro as well, but does have too much of the SMABAT house sound.  Most recordings seem to be fine with it however.
> 
> I believe SMABAT is going to discontinue that whole line so you may want to get on that one.  Then Let us know what you think.  When your wife gets mad, tell her @FranQL suggested it.



Sadly if SMABAT can't generate another HIT series, they could be discontinued all together based on their terrible sale numbers/marketing from last year. 







I'm intrigued by their newly introduced Detachable Bluetooth Module! Hard to survive without some sort of TWS revenues nowadays. A couple of concerns for me before placing the order:

1. BATTERY life? (6hr bare minimum to me ~ 10hr Good)
2. Fit (1000XM3 with similar design gave me nightmares in terms of staying in place)
3. Connectivity (Common thing for new TWS makers)

I'd like SMABAT provide a bit more clarifications as there's none on the product page. 

They really need to pull some marketing tricks to stay afloat. If this product is legit, make this an 'Amazon Choice' sale item and hire a few YouTube hype man to do the job lol. I'm sure they'll get plenty fans for that HIFI label + Nostalgia!


----------



## baskingshark

numon said:


> about  smabat m4  driver connection to main case. will it be secure  and durable?i understand that the design is like this; turning driver 1.5 turn ,2 pin will  touch the  gold palted part on main part. but if silicon inside the main part get loose or  turning driver can cause stratches.  what do you think about new driver connect design ?



Definitely wear and tear is a consideration with repeated screw ons. Though in practice, I think most of us would just leave a favoured driver config connected once we test all the permutations and minimize changing thereafter.

But anyway, there is a bigger sad fact of life you must know: a new hypetrain earbud would have arrived in the mail long before the grooves are worn out by screwing on the drivers repeatedly.


----------



## baskingshark

Interestingly TRN is trying to muscle in on the earbud pie with a earbud release:

https://www.facebook.com/headphones...aQANSqHFmBfTWkgSXv3D1cUDhSbYuP2oSYZEGHVyyk5fl





And it is 2 pin detachable to boot!

I'm not really a fan of TRN tuning for IEMs, but hope this one will not be "female poison" and shouty like some of those.


----------



## samandhi (Jun 14, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> Interestingly TRN is trying to muscle in on the earbud pie with a earbud release:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/headphones...aQANSqHFmBfTWkgSXv3D1cUDhSbYuP2oSYZEGHVyyk5fl
> 
> ...


<he askes in an almost unintelligible accent> They are trying to put their muscles into a pie that has earbuds in them? 

Hard to tell from JUST a picture, but they at least LOOK really well built. Coming soon is the only kind of date you have heard?


----------



## chavez

baskingshark said:


> Interestingly TRN is trying to muscle in on the earbud pie with a earbud release:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/headphones...aQANSqHFmBfTWkgSXv3D1cUDhSbYuP2oSYZEGHVyyk5fl
> 
> ...










Very similar.


----------



## Hououin Kyouma (Jun 14, 2022)

Hi earbuds lovers. I need some EQ presets for Qian39. It's a bit too mid-forward for me. Thanks


----------



## samandhi (Jun 14, 2022)

Hououin Kyouma said:


> Hi earbuds lovers. I need some EQ presets for Qian39. It's a bit too mid-forward for me. Thanks


I don't have these, but I have a lot that are a bit too mid forward (especially upper mids) for me. Try:

FR = 4K Gain = -2dB (or more depending on how boosted it is) Q (or BW) 3 or 4
Then FR = 10K Gain = +2dB high shelf if using PEQ (or more depending on how much you have to compensate for 4K subtraction) Q (or BW) 1.4 or 1
You might also want to use (to add some warmth back into overall sound): FR = 63Hz Gain = +1dB Q (or BW) 1.4 or 1
FR = 32 Gain = +3dB low shelf if using PEQ Q (or BW) = 1.4 or 1
Adding the treble and low end might not be necessary, but I have found, with earbuds especially, that they tend to use this upper mids boost to give the illusion of clarity up top, and when you subtract them to a normal level, the buds are actually rather warm in the treble region. Also adding a tad bit of sub and mid bass help to give back that fuller sound overall. That part, you could leave out without much consequence though. 

Again, this is more of a generic PEQ or EQ, so YMMV and you could use it as a base, and tweak from it.


----------



## Kamen555

U guys seen this?


----------



## samandhi

Kamen555 said:


> U guys seen this?


It almost looks like it is shaped similar to an ear concha....


----------



## jant71

This is what the FF3 look like...




In the silver. They also come in black.


----------



## mt877

FiiO posted this forum message in May about the new upcoming FF3 (expected release June) and FF5 (expected release September). Of course FiiO James does not go into specifics, just a small teaser.


----------



## mt877 (Jun 14, 2022)

Kumonomukou said:


> Sadly if SMABAT can't generate another HIT series, they could be discontinued all together based on their terrible sale numbers/marketing from last year.
> 
> 
> I'm intrigued by their newly introduced Detachable Bluetooth Module! Hard to survive without some sort of TWS revenues nowadays. A couple of concerns for me before placing the order:
> ...



I like the bat logo. The real question is will they use the bat logo or will they use plain 'smabat'?

Smabat has released some information:






Google search found some info on the Realtek 8753BFE:


Bluetooth ChipsetRTL8753BFE_VQBluetooth Version5.1+EDR/BLE

BT ProfileHFP,A2DP,HSP,AVRCP,SSP,AVRCPBT DecodeSBC,AACRF  Frequence:2.4G-2.48GWork Distance:>10m


----------



## Gifting (Jun 16, 2022)

Has anyone here tried out the Final VR3000? How does it compare to generic MX500 earbuds *(*like a Vido, Yincrow X6, Qian 69, Tingo TC200, etc*) *in terms of soundstage and imaging?

Thought of getting it but I'm on a budget right now, and 80 dollars would be a waste if it offered minimal advantages.

_Edited for simplicity _


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> WOW! Then they should all be good then, because I like the stock driver..


it is really good.  That’s the funny thing about SMABAT drivers: they are all good.  The 150ti is probably my favorite, but that could be different any day of the week.  Even the little Bio sounds great.  I’m just not a fan of SMABAT‘s tuning.  After doing DIY, it’s hard to settle for less than perfect.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> it is really good.  That’s the funny thing about SMABAT drivers: they are all good.  The 150ti is probably my favorite, but that could be different any day of the week.  Even the little Bio sounds great.  I’m just not a fan of SMABAT‘s tuning.  After doing DIY, it’s hard to settle for less than perfect.


IC your point!  Did you try and put one of those drivers into a DIY bud yet?


----------



## northernsound

I just ordered the NiceHCK DIY MX500 with mic after looking at RikudouGoku's Earbud ranking, I already bought the Yincrow X6 (which is great) and am now looking for a more neutral pair of earbuds. So thanks once again to RikudouGoku and the rest of you for all the great info.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 16, 2022)

Ronion said:


> it is really good.  That’s the funny thing about SMABAT drivers: they are all good.  The 150ti is probably my favorite, but that could be different any day of the week.  Even the little Bio sounds great.  I’m just not a fan of SMABAT‘s tuning.  After doing DIY, it’s hard to settle for less than perfect.


Concur. This company really truly is trying hard to innovate and push the "flathead envelope" to new heights and performance levels. Many of the Svara-Smabat models easily fall into the top category for best bass/sub-bass performance. Sadly though I also don't care for their tuning as well. I am sensitive to peaky sibilant treble and Svara-Smabat has this overall general house tuning across the board that has a well known peak at 3kHz that really drives some people crazy while others are completely unaffected and not bothered by it at all... lucky dogs them! Something is also happening in the high mids and low highs that drastically impacts the timbre (timbral accuracy). Timbreheads such as myself and a few others (look'in at you *@baskingshark*) are quite picky in this department and personally have found the ST-10 era models and the Svara-Smabat house sound in general to be timbre inaccurate across many models and drivers. Though I must admit that I did really love the lows (from the low midrange downward) on my Smabat ST-10S Black-Gold but their wonky timbre, peaky treble, and achy fit were eventually too much for me and they were sent off to a terrifying end in a laboratory to be dissected and studied.


----------



## digititus

WoodyLuvr said:


> Though I must admit that I did really love the lows (from the low midrange downward) on my Smabat ST-10S Black-Gold but their wonky timbre, peaky treble, and achy fit were eventually too much for me and they were sent off to a terrifying end in a laboratory to be dissected and studied.


You monster


----------



## profusion

Any review on TRN EMA?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 16, 2022)

profusion said:


> Any review on TRN EMA?


No, I haven't seen any pre-release reviews yet... though I am keeping a watchful eye over on _erji.net _waiting for at least some specs to pop-up before they are released. "Coming Soon" could be a long way off for TRN.


----------



## chavez

WoodyLuvr said:


> No, I haven't seen any pre-release reviews yet... though I am keeping a watchful eye over on _erji.net _waiting for at least some specs to pop-up before they are released. "Coming Soon" could be a long way off for TRN.


Nice price if you ask me.

€ 8,63  50%OFF | TRN EMA 14.2mm Dynamic Driver In Ear Earphone Bass Metal Flat Head Plug Earburd Replaceable Cable For TRN Kirin MT1 VX Pro V90
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKrz3oK


----------



## WoodyLuvr

chavez said:


> Nice price if you ask me.
> 
> € 8,63  50%OFF | TRN EMA 14.2mm Dynamic Driver In Ear Earphone Bass Metal Flat Head Plug Earburd Replaceable Cable For TRN Kirin MT1 VX Pro V90
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKrz3oK


Specs!!!! Nice find there! Thank you for linking that.


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur. This company really truly is trying hard to innovate and push the "flathead envelope" to new heights and performance levels. Many of the Svara-Smabat models easily fall into the top category for best bass/sub-bass performance. Sadly though I also don't care for their tuning as well. I am sensitive to peaky sibilant treble and Svara-Smabat has this overall general house tuning across the board that has a well known peak at 3kHz that really drives some people crazy while others are completely unaffected and not bothered by it at all... lucky dogs them! Something is also happening in the high mids and low highs that drastically impacts the timbre (timbral accuracy). Timbreheads such as myself and a few others (look'in at you *@baskingshark*) are quite picky in this department and personally have found the ST-10 era models and the Svara-Smabat house sound in general to be timbre inaccurate across many models and drivers. Though I must admit that I did really love the lows (from the low midrange downward) on my Smabat ST-10S Black-Gold but their wonky timbre, peaky treble, and achy fit were eventually too much for me and they were sent off to a terrifying end in a laboratory to be dissected and studied.


While I do agree with that, I find that most of the earbuds that I own also have this same (boosted 3K) trait. I can say that either I have gotten used to it, or burn-in has helped (maybe a bit of both?). I suppose it comes down to how loud you listen to them also?! I find that most of my earbuds still are terribly shouty at high volume (above 80(ish)dB). The Maria II and the DUNU Alpha 1 are the worst offenders (even more so than Smabat buds). The Chaconnes are the only ones that are not like this. They make me wince when I first put them in, because they have no right to be as clear as they are without being shouty IMO. 

But, on the other hand, I am not opposed to using some EQ to tweak them to my liking (I know, sacrilege, non-purist), and I have a profile for most of my head gear in at least one frequency or another. I have yet to find ANY head gear that is perfect for me OOTB (though with most I only need 1-2dB of tweak). Even my iBasso IT07 (which I accuse them of tuning them just for me) need a bit of help in the treble area for me. 

BUT.... Most of my head gear needs some re-testing, with the newly acquired Nutube amp recently acquired by me (literally yesterday).


----------



## baskingshark

WoodyLuvr said:


> No, I haven't seen any pre-release reviews yet... though I am keeping a watchful eye over on _erji.net _waiting for at least some specs to pop-up before they are released. "Coming Soon" could be a long way off for TRN.



Well I had around 30 TRN products, ranging from IEMs, to TWS/BT adapters, cables and the like.

TRN gear mostly are tuned either with banshee shouty treble-on-steroids tuning, or the other extreme of lowFI bass bleeding V shaped types. I've sold or given most of my TRNs away.

Also, some of their gear suffer from QC defects.

Generally their cheaper gear have good price to performance ratio, but their IEMs around $100 and above are kinda meh compared to the competition.

And importantly, since it is their first foray into the earbud world, it will behoove one to wait for reviews before doing a blind purchase on this.


----------



## Kamen555

Usd100? Aaaannnddd dis is where my journey ends... 

Maybe they'll have a cheaper version out later.


----------



## ValSuki

Kamen555 said:


> Usd100? Aaaannnddd dis is where my journey ends...
> 
> Maybe they'll have a cheaper version out later.


My only complaint is attached cable for such a high quality looking bud!

If it was under the blue and red markings, that would be solid but fiio forgot lol


----------



## mt877

Here's FiiO's official Head-fi announcement: "FiiO Dynamic Driver Earbuds FF3/14.2mm large driver/Beryllium-plated dome + PU gasket diaphragm /316L stainless steel polished construction US$99".

Wow, what a long title they're using.


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> BUT.... Most of my head gear needs some re-testing, with the newly acquired Nutube amp recently acquired by me (literally yesterday).


After you get totally hooked on tubey-licious 2nd harmonics sound, you're next goal will be to search out and buy all head gear that will sound the best with your new Nutube amp card. It's inevitable!! 😁


----------



## mt877

Kamen555 said:


> Usd100? Aaaannnddd dis is where my journey ends...
> 
> Maybe they'll have a cheaper version out later.


This version is called FF3, next version will be FF5. The FF5 will probably be FiiO's next flagship earbud, so I wouldn't think it'll be getting any cheaper.


----------



## samandhi (Jun 16, 2022)

mt877 said:


> After you get totally hooked on tubey-licious 2nd harmonics sound, you're next goal will be to search out and buy all head gear that will sound the best with your new Nutube amp card. It's inevitable!! 😁


I can say that so far, all of the earbuds I have tried sound fantastic with it. I think the best improvement is the Sennheiser HD700 (it seems Senny stuff always has liked tubes for some reason).... 

But you are right, I will probably be seeking more gear that fits with it...


----------



## mt877

ValSuki said:


> My only complaint is attached cable for such a high quality looking bud!
> 
> If it was under the blue and red markings, that would be solid but fiio forgot lol


They're saving the mmcx connection for the upcoming FF5.


----------



## Kamen555

mt877 said:


> This version is called FF3, next version will be FF5. The FF5 will probably be FiiO's next flagship earbud, so I wouldn't think it'll be getting any cheaper.


I guess they need to price it for some kind of profit? 🤔 Well, maybe they'll do a budget line.


----------



## mt877

Kamen555 said:


> I guess they need to price it for some kind of profit? 🤔 Well, maybe they'll do a budget line.


Their older budget line is the EM3K (without inline mic) and EM3S (with inline mic). Still available at one aliexpress store for $22.50. You might find them a little cheaper at other aliexpress stores(?). Not sure what the sound quality is like.


----------



## baskingshark

Anyways, to our earbud fans, it seems the TRN EMA earbud has been released: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004410828221.html

$8.90 for no mic, $9.90 with mic.

That's quite good pricing considering it is 2-pin detachable too!


----------



## mt877

baskingshark said:


> Anyways, to our earbud fans, it seems the TRN EMA earbud has been released: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004410828221.html
> 
> $8.90 for no mic, $9.90 with mic.
> 
> That's quite good pricing considering it is 2-pin detachable too!


Even without a review these definitely won't break the bank on a blind purchase.


----------



## ValSuki

baskingshark said:


> Anyways, to our earbud fans, it seems the TRN EMA earbud has been released: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004410828221.html
> 
> $8.90 for no mic, $9.90 with mic.
> 
> That's quite good pricing considering it is 2-pin detachable too!


Knowing the history of TRN tuning, they follow the philosophy of following "Sound quality scales in price" except backwards! 

At this price, theyre literally competing with legends like the X6 and now possibly the Nicehck vido! But, I have my worries. 
1. The cable is pretty much proprietary. It uses a curve inside the plastic of the pins, meaning you will need to get some very funky 2pins to work with this
2. Lots of vents! Thats usually not a good sign, giving the driver too much air which will cause distortion. Unless its been dampended properly, i will need to see
3. May have wild tuning! TRN is infamous for their tuning demanding EQ or being not amazing. 

Ill wait to see though, this may actually be a wonderful earbud.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 19, 2022)

Kamen555 said:


> Usd100? Aaaannnddd dis is where my journey ends...
> 
> Maybe they'll have a cheaper version out later.


You seriously need to consider *RikuBuds*. Sitting currently in my top three at the moment is the *2022 - RikuBuds Berserker 1 (32ΩTiComp 19-21 Red Dot)*. Hands down one of the best earbuds I have heard and/or owned; easily in my top twenty all-time I would say... perhaps maybe even top ten in my top ten. It uses a DIY MX32 19-21 Red Dot Ti driver and is expertly tuned. Real bass canons. Riku's *2022 - RikuBuds Grand Rider 1 (130Ω Bery; Sweden DIY)* is also getting excellent reviews *here*... really great to see a known IEM fanatic giving a flathead earbud some much needed love.

For little as Euro 50 will get you an amazing earbud while supporting "one of our own". There are currently _nine (9) available models_ to choose from with varying signatures for different tastes:

*RikuBuds* by *@RikudouGoku*

*2022 - RikuBuds Alter Archer 1 (64ΩWG)*​*2022 - RikuBuds Alter Rider 1 (32ΩBio 19-21 Black Dot)*​*2022 - RikuBuds Archer 1 (32ΩBG N52)*​*2022 - RikuBuds Berserker 1 (32ΩTiComp 19-21 Red Dot)*​*2022 - RikuBuds Grand Archer 1 (68ΩGraphene)*​*2022 - RikuBuds Grand Rider 1 (130ΩBery)*​*2022 - RikuBuds Lancer 1 (150ΩBG)*​*2022 - RikuBuds Rider 1 (32ΩBG N52)*​*2022 - RikuBuds Saber 1 (32ΩTiComp 19-21 Red Dot)*​


----------



## Setmagic

@WoodyLuvr looks like You should change signature from _*Friend of Blur Earphones *_to all we know


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Setmagic said:


> @WoodyLuvr looks like You should change signature from _*Friend of Blur Earphones *_to all we know


Concur, I want them to change it to "*Friend of all flathead earbuds*"


----------



## Setmagic

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur, I want them to change it to "*Friend of all flathead earbuds*"


Agree!


----------



## Kamen555

WoodyLuvr said:


> You seriously need to consider *RikuBuds*. Sitting currently in my top three at the moment is the *2022 - RikuBuds Berserker 1 (32ΩTiComp 19-21 Red Dot)*. Hands down one of the best earbuds I have heard and/or owned; easily in my top twenty all-time I would say... perhaps maybe even top ten. It uses a DIY MX32 19-21 Red Dot Ti driver and is expertly tuned. Real bass canons. Riku's *2022 - RikuBuds Grand Rider 1 (130Ω Bery; Sweden DIY)* is also getting excellent reviews *here*... really great to see a known IEM fanatic giving a flathead earbud some much needed love.
> 
> For little as Euro 50 will get you an amazing earbud while supporting "one of our own". There are currently _nine (9) available models_ to choose from with varying signatures for different tastes:
> 
> ...


Will definitely consider it, but will probably try d ones closer first, like d newbsound buds.


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur, I want them to change it to "*Friend of all flathead earbuds*"


*"IEM crusher, headphone rusher, gusher over an earbud cause' he's plowing over suckers with some flatheads"*

Think that one is too long?


----------



## ttorbic

WoodyLuvr said:


> You seriously need to consider *RikuBuds*. Sitting currently in my top three at the moment is the *2022 - RikuBuds Berserker 1 (32ΩTiComp 19-21 Red Dot)*. Hands down one of the best earbuds I have heard and/or owned; easily in my top twenty all-time I would say... perhaps maybe even top ten. It uses a DIY MX32 19-21 Red Dot Ti driver and is expertly tuned. Real bass canons. Riku's *2022 - RikuBuds Grand Rider 1 (130Ω Bery; Sweden DIY)* is also getting excellent reviews *here*... really great to see a known IEM fanatic giving a flathead earbud some much needed love.
> 
> For little as Euro 50 will get you an amazing earbud while supporting "one of our own". There are currently _nine (9) available models_ to choose from with varying signatures for different tastes:
> 
> ...


I wholeheartedly agree - I have the Alter Rider 1, and I'm very impressed! Lovely mids, good note-weight, natural timbre, and textured bass. Only thing I'd change is the fit - I get some ear pain after an hour of use, and I enjoy them so much that I want to use them for hours on end. I guess it's a physical reminder for my ears to rest, but...I want more! Lol. Recommended


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 19, 2022)

Kamen555 said:


> Will definitely consider it, but will probably try d ones closer first, like d newbsound buds.


Yes, indeed another worthy viable option are *Newbsound Earbuds* by *@irv003*... they are very well liked and regarded.

2022 - Newbsound 32X (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​
Or even consider some earbuds from your Canadian brethren *TGXEAR* *@tgx78*.

2022 - tgxear BlackTusk (130ΩLCP)​2022 - tgxear Serratus (300ΩPET BG)​2022 - tgxear Tantalus (500ΩBery)​2022 - tgxear Tio Lake (32ΩTi Red Dot 19-21)​2022 - tgxear Tofino (150ΩPET BG)​


----------



## nofarewell

Got this fella with Hiegi foams, they sound nice  Sony MDR-E560


----------



## WoodyLuvr

nofarewell said:


> Got this fella with Hiegi foams, they sound nice  Sony MDR-E560


Nice! The waterproof version ("G") of:

1991 - Sony MDR-E560 (16Ω; Sports Twin Turbo)


----------



## Black-Wolf

@WoodyLuvr I'm on the waiting List for a Grand Rider (it might take some time to get it). I'm looking forward to hear them! I'll try to compare them with some buds i like (my beloved Newbsound 32, Bell LBBS, DQSM Turandot and thoss good old Shozy BK) when i receive them!


----------



## nofarewell

Exactly 


WoodyLuvr said:


> Nice! The waterproof version ("G") of:
> 
> 1991 - Sony MDR-E560 (16Ω; Sports Twin Turbo)


Definitely.  I love the 16mm driver size. It just fits.


----------



## ttorbic

Black-Wolf said:


> @WoodyLuvr I'm on the waiting List for a Grand Rider (it might take some time to get it). I'm looking forward to hear them! I'll try to compare them with some buds i like (my beloved Newbsound 32, Bell LBBS, DQSM Turandot and thoss good old Shozy BK) when i receive them!


that'd be very helpful, thanks!


----------



## yaps66

WoodyLuvr said:


> You seriously need to consider *RikuBuds*. Sitting currently in my top three at the moment is the *2022 - RikuBuds Berserker 1 (32ΩTiComp 19-21 Red Dot)*. Hands down one of the best earbuds I have heard and/or owned; easily in my top twenty all-time I would say... perhaps maybe even top ten. It uses a DIY MX32 19-21 Red Dot Ti driver and is expertly tuned. Real bass canons. Riku's *2022 - RikuBuds Grand Rider 1 (130Ω Bery; Sweden DIY)* is also getting excellent reviews *here*... really great to see a known IEM fanatic giving a flathead earbud some much needed love.
> 
> For little as Euro 50 will get you an amazing earbud while supporting "one of our own". There are currently _nine (9) available models_ to choose from with varying signatures for different tastes:
> 
> ...


Nice! I have the Lancer and Saber enroute!



WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, indeed another worthy viable option are *Newbsound Earbuds* by *@irv003*... they are very well liked and regarded.
> 
> 2022 - Newbsound 32X (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​
> Or even consider some earbuds from your Canadian brethren *TGXEAR* *@tgx78*.
> ...


Love the tofino! Very dynamic pair!


----------



## waynes world

WoodyLuvr said:


> Or even consider some earbuds from your Canadian brethren *TGXEAR* *@tgx78*.
> 
> *2022 - tgxear BlackTusk (130ΩLCP)*​2022 - tgxear Serratus (300ΩPET BG)​2022 - tgxear Tantalus (500Ω; currently @ prototype stage)​2022 - tgxear Tio Lake (32ΩTi Red Dot 19-21)​*2022 - tgxear Tofino (150ΩPET BG)*​



I love the actual 



Spoiler:  Black Tusk 









And I love the actual 



Spoiler: Tofino









So those buds must be great!


----------



## Kamen555

Erm, u guys know what's up with d chifi companies n mechanical keyboards? 1st waifus, now keyboards? 🤔


----------



## baskingshark

Kamen555 said:


> Erm, u guys know what's up with d chifi companies n mechanical keyboards? 1st waifus, now keyboards? 🤔



There's a subset of audiophiles that are into keyboards and vice versa. So Moondrop entered the keyboard game recently, big reviewers like Crinacle also started dabbling with keyboard reviews. Lately, Fiio tried to muscle in with their own keyboard with an inbuilt DAC/AMP:



I'm not into keyboards or gaming, but speaking from an audiophile perspective, this Fiio keyboard is superfluous. I mean, we already have our favourite desktop dac/amps or dongles if we wanna listen to music on a desktop?


----------



## Kamen555

Huh. OK. 

Keyboard reviewing is a thing? I guess like u say it's a gamer subset. 

Anyways. Thanks for d insight. 



baskingshark said:


> There's a subset of audiophiles that are into keyboards and vice versa. So Moondrop entered the keyboard game recently, big reviewers like Crinacle also started dabbling with keyboard reviews. Lately, Fiio tried to muscle in with their own keyboard with an inbuilt DAC/AMP:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not into keyboards or gaming, but speaking from an audiophile perspective, this Fiio keyboard is superfluous. I mean, we already have our favourite desktop dac/amps or dongles if we wanna listen to music on a desktop?


----------



## FranQL

Kamen555 said:


> Huh. OK.
> 
> Keyboard reviewing is a thing? I guess like u say it's a gamer subset.
> 
> Anyways. Thanks for d insight.



Fiio and other brands are looking to the future in the subset of "audiophiles" who like beer.....


----------



## Ronion

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, indeed another worthy viable option are *Newbsound Earbuds* by *@irv003*... they are very well liked and regarded.
> 
> 2022 - Newbsound 32X (32Ω; formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black)​
> Or even consider some earbuds from your Canadian brethren *TGXEAR* *@tgx78*.
> ...


All these are very good drivers.


----------



## FranQL

Ronion said:


> All these are very good drivers.



Especially 500 Ohm Bery


----------



## Lenni (Jun 18, 2022)

I bought a pair of Fiio EM5 a week ago. At first, I was very disappointed with them. The vocal sounded distant. They sounded nothing like what I read in reviews. I think it was after the third or fourth time while I was using them with my phone that suddenly the sound came alive. Now the reviews make sense. They sound great.

I'm wondering what caused this. Was it the phone plug? I'm pretty sure I pushed the Jack down into the plug. Or something is wrong with the buds?

Should I return them for another new pair or should I keep them?


----------



## ttorbic

FranQL said:


> Especially 500 Ohm Bery


Do you use a nuke reactor to power that thing? Also, is this one of @tgx78? What are your thoughts?


----------



## FranQL (Jun 19, 2022)

ttorbic said:


> Do you use a nuke reactor to power that thing? Also, is this one of @tgx78? What are your thoughts?



It is difficult to drive, but with for example "megatron" and with "E1DA 9038 SG3" I get the best of it without difficulty.

My thoughts for this 500 Ohm are that after having it at home for a year without obtaining a remarkable performance, based on adjusting and readjusting, and why not say it, using crazy tuning, I have managed to make it the number 1 of collection without a doubt, something like stating that I don't need anything more than this, everything, absolutely everything, highs, mids, lows, subbass, stage, depth, laterality, separation, tonality, timbre, etc, etc, is simply what I search. What is better to find or what are you looking for?

I would love to be able to tell you what @tgx78 has achieved with them, but I have not listened to them, without a doubt my recommendation would be towards any construction with this driver, important: my recommendation.

Of course, it is my personal opinion and as always to say that what seems wonderful to me may be simply rubbish to another.

I'm not good at describing sound, so I haven't really gotten into that field. But there are great drivers, and this one is expensive... but such a crazy value for me that I have 4 units.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 20, 2022)

ttorbic said:


> Do you use a nuke reactor to power that thing? Also, is this one of @tgx78? What are your thoughts?


This *reactor* pairs well with 500Ω or 600Ω earbuds... easily driving them to total bliss!  I think it may be nuclear...  thermonuclear... no, wait that is thermionic... never mind.


----------



## ttorbic

WoodyLuvr said:


> This reactor pairs well with 500Ω or 600Ω earbuds... easily driving them to total bliss!  I think it may be nuclear...  thermonuclear... no, wait that is thermionic... never mind.


This is what exactly what i had in mind when i thought of nuke reactor. Looks dope.


----------



## tgx78 (Jun 19, 2022)

I think I spent about 90-100 hours tuning 500 beryllium so far. Not satisfied yet but miles better than when I first started. I still prefer my 300ohm BG for symphonic music but I am aiming to compliment it by 500’s slightly wetter and organic sound vs 300’s neutral bright sound that has a bit of dryness and sharp characteristics.

I also use 9038SG3 and megatron to test it.


----------



## tgx78

WoodyLuvr said:


> This reactor pairs well with 500Ω or 600Ω earbuds... easily driving them to total bliss!  I think it may be nuclear...  thermonuclear... no, wait that is thermionic... never mind.





Might glow in the dark 😉


----------



## Setmagic (Jun 20, 2022)

7 years of rabbit hole of @FranQL in a pair of buds.

Setmagic 64-Titanium Espresso Limited  powered by FranQL audio design.


----------



## jeejack

Setmagic said:


> 7 years of rabbit hole of @FranQL in a pair of buds.
> 
> Setmagic 64-Titanium Espresso Limited  powered by FranQL audio design.



😍


----------



## qua2k

jeejack said:


> 😍


A rhodium termination would really fill that out aesthetically rather than the gold, imo... nice looking!


----------



## samandhi

qua2k said:


> A rhodium termination would really fill that out aesthetically rather than the gold, imo... nice looking!


I have read that rhodium is not good for high humidity climates though (corrosion and sound issues)???


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 21, 2022)

samandhi said:


> I have read that rhodium is not good for high humidity climates though (corrosion and sound issues)???



Rhodium is extremely durable, does not tarnish, and highly resistant to corrosion thus why it is used as an alloying agent for a variety of electronic, medical, nuclear energy, and military applications. Electrically speaking Rhodium offers little resistance and stable contact resistance which in our "use-case" is quite beneficial for audio connectivity applications. Jewelry-wise quality white gold and sterling silver products are often plated with rhodium as an anti-tarnishing step to enhance durability and appearance. Militarily it is used for some rather critical applications where corrosion can not happen in any environment especially at sea (high humidity and salinity).

I have (had) a number of rhodium plugs and they have faired very well with no ill-effects in either physical appearance or performance here in the tropics which is very unforgiving of metals and electrical items in general.

Now that isn't to say that aren't some piss-poor made rhodium plugs (products) out there. There are! I luckily never ran across any (thank goodness). Often times shady manufacturers do cut corners on alloying and plating processes though rhodium in most production applications is one of those materials that has to be done right to certain high degree to achieve any success with it.


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Rhodium is extremely durable, does not tarnish, and highly resistant to corrosion thus why it is used as an alloying agent for a variety of electronic, medical, nuclear energy, and military applications. Electrically speaking Rhodium offers little resistance and stable contact resistance which in our "use-case" is quite beneficial for audio connectivity applications. Jewelry-wise quality white gold and sterling silver products are often plated with rhodium as an anti-tarnishing step to enhance durability and appearance. Militarily it is used for some rather critical applications where corrosion can not happen in any environment especially at sea (high humidity and salinity).
> 
> I have (had) a number of rhodium plugs and they have faired very well with no ill-effects in either physical appearance or performance here in the tropics which is very unforgiving of metals and electrical items in general.
> 
> Now that isn't to say that aren't some piss-poor made rhodium plugs (products) out there. There are! I luckily never ran across any (thank goodness). Often times shady manufacturers do cut corners on alloying and plating processes though rhodium in most production applications is one of those materials that has to be done right to certain high degree to achieve any success with it.


Very interesting! Thanks for clearing that up for me. I had read some interaction between a member on Head-Fi and a manufacturer where the manufacturer was saying just the opposite of what you are saying, hence why some of their connectors were sounding "bad" to the end users over time. 

So it sounds like that maker was blowing smoke at the user. It was a dismissal at best, and the maker claimed there was nothing they could do about it, except for them to purchase another set with a different plug on it. I can't abide by a maker that acts like that! I wish I could remember where I read that so that I can label them as a "don't buy from" company... 

As for me, I had not had any experience with it before reading that thread about it. Being a DA at that time, rather than research it (like I would normally do), I took it at face value and decided to stay away from it. That one is on me I guess.... 

Very interesting indeed!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 21, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Very interesting! Thanks for clearing that up for me.


Most welcome good sir!

Forgot to mention that the durability factor is the major reason for the introduction of rhodium in not only audio but many other commercial applications more so than it's actual electrical properties per se. As said it's high corrosion resistance is excellent but it's hard finish and the key here "hardness" is exceptional and perfect for "high use" scenarios... in this case the repeated unplugging and plugging and transport of cables.

Of course with rhodium being an exotic more expensive material the audio industry loves to incorporate it for the "wow factor!" and a higher price tag.



samandhi said:


> I had read some interaction between a member on Head-Fi and a manufacturer where the manufacturer was saying just the opposite of what you are saying, hence why some of their connectors were sounding "bad" to the end users over time.
> 
> So it sounds like that maker was blowing smoke at the user. It was a dismissal at best, and the maker claimed there was nothing they could do about it, except for them to purchase another set with a different plug on it. I can't abide by a maker that acts like that! I wish I could remember where I read that so that I can label them as a "don't buy from" company...
> 
> ...


The issue may have lain more with poor soldering by the mentioned manufacturer especially at the contacts. They were simply "blowing smoke" up a customer's a@# as you said... making excuses for crappy workmanship no doubt!

That said, rhodium *is* extremely difficult to solder and solder well. Thus why a variable temperature soldering station is highly recommended, as well as quality flux and plenty of it! I found that I used much more flux while soldering rhodium than pretty much any other metal that I have come across while soldering. Just as bad as some grades of brass in fact.

Now with that all said if given the choice I would choose gold over rhodium in most audio-related cases 99% of the time. It does the job exceptionally well at a lower price.


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Rhodium is extremely durable, does not tarnish, and highly resistant to corrosion thus why it is used as an alloying agent for a variety of electronic, medical, nuclear energy, and military applications. Electrically speaking Rhodium offers little resistance and stable contact resistance which in our "use-case" is quite beneficial for audio connectivity applications. Jewelry-wise quality white gold and sterling silver products are often plated with rhodium as an anti-tarnishing step to enhance durability and appearance. Militarily it is used for some rather critical applications where corrosion can not happen in any environment especially at sea (high humidity and salinity).
> 
> I have (had) a number of rhodium plugs and they have faired very well with no ill-effects in either physical appearance or performance here in the tropics which is very unforgiving of metals and electrical items in general.
> 
> Now that isn't to say that aren't some piss-poor made rhodium plugs (products) out there. There are! I luckily never ran across any (thank goodness). Often times shady manufacturers do cut corners on alloying and plating processes though rhodium in most production applications is one of those materials that has to be done right to certain high degree to achieve any success with it.





WoodyLuvr said:


> Most welcome good sir!
> 
> Forgot to mention that the durability factor is the major reason for the introduction of rhodium in not only audio but many other commercial applications more so than it's actual electrical properties per se. As said it's high corrosion resistance is excellent but it's hard finish and the key here "hardness" is exceptional and perfect for "high use" scenarios... in this case the repeated unplugging and plugging and transport of cables.
> 
> ...


 This is more than Wikipedia can offer.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Nov 27, 2022)

*Longyao-Yinman龙谣音曼
2.0 600 Limited Edition; 600Ω
3.5SE / 3.5TRS / 3.5MM Unbalanced *





*”单元直径15.4mm,阻抗600欧，频响范围：20-35000赫兹，灵敏度87“
15.4mm diameter DD, 600ohm, 20-35000hz range, and 87db/mW sensitivity*

*Full Mini-Review HERE*​


----------



## baskingshark

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600 Limited Edition
> 600Ω*
> 
> ​My new earbuds arrived! Very pleased with their performance thus far. Although warm-sounding their resolution and timbre is crazy good. And boy do they scale with power! Their rated sensitivity of 95dB ±3dB/mW is quite conservative as they are much harder to drive than even my Puresounds PS100-600S (600Ω @ 93dB ±3dB/mW) which I had felt were definitely sub 93 dB/mW in sensitivity. So I am thinking that these Yinmans are probably closer to 90-91 dB/mW in rated sensitivity.
> ...



Wow do they sell this on aliexpress?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 21, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> Wow do they sell this on aliexpress?


Yes, via *AVCCK Earphones Store*

The 2021 limited rerun of the _*2016 Yinman 音曼 2.0 醇净 600 MMCX*_ is all sold out now. Only a few of these new 2022 fixed cable models are available now.


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, via *AVCCK Earphones Store*
> 
> The 2021 limited rerun of the _*2016 Yinman 音曼 2.0 醇净 600 MMCX*_ is all sold out now. Only a few of these new 2022 fixed cable models are available now.


The link takes me to the MMCX version. And the name on Aliexpress store is simply new _*Yinman 600 ohm high impedance in ear earphone*_. They don't look like the ones you pictured other than the box. Do you know much about these at the store? Also there is no choice for balanced connection (I doubt that a SE connection from a DAP could power these).


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 21, 2022)

samandhi said:


> The link takes me to the MMCX version. And the name on Aliexpress store is simply new _*Yinman 600 ohm high impedance in ear earphone*_. They don't look like the ones you pictured other than the box. Do you know much about these at the store? Also there is no choice for balanced connection (I doubt that a SE connection from a DAP could power these).


Yes, that is how AVCCK works... very out dated and always with super confusing entries! LOL! Chat with them and they will explain it to you. The 2021 Limited Rerun of the MMCX version is all done now. Only the new 2022 version in fixed cable and new wooden shells is now available. There are no updated pics yet of the 2022 model posted in their store, of course! All the ones in the pics are of older unavailable versions. Available terminations are 3.5SE, 2.5TRRS, 4.4TRRRS and if not mistaken only in this dark colored shell.

Although these are hands down the hardest to drive earbuds I have ever had I do think they scale well both ways... so many daps would power them adequately as only 2Vrms or less (>8mW @ >3.6 mA) would be required to push them to 100dB SPL. Though with that said they do scale splendidly with more power.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 21, 2022)

*@samandhi *I just tried them with my *Meizu HiFI Pro* dongle "*tricked*" via an adapter cable to max output @ ~2Vrms with a thrust of ~9mW. They sound great with plenty of volume to spare.


----------



## samandhi (Jun 21, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, that is how AVCCK works... very out dated and always with super confusing entries! LOL! Chat with them and they will explain it to you. The 2021 Limited Rerun of the MMCX version is all done now. Only the new 2022 version in fixed cable and new wooden shells is now available. There are no updated pics yet of the 2022 model posted in their store, of course! All the ones in the pics are of older unavailable versions. Available terminations are 3.5SE, 2.5TRRS, 4.4TRRS and if not mistaken only in this dark colored shell.
> 
> Although these are hands down the hardest to drive earbuds I have ever had I do think they scale well both ways... so many daps would power them adequately as only 2Vrms (>8mW @ >3.6 mA) or less would be required to push them to 100dB SPL. Though with that said they do scale splendidly with more power.


Ok! Ordered. While they DID give me a choice of connectors, they didn't mention color, so I think the dark ones are the only ones they have as you said. I trust your ears good sir!

I ordered the 2.5mm TRRS version since it is easiest for me to convert if I need to (I can use all three in one amp card, or only 4.4mm TRRS in another w/adapter, or only 3.5mm TRS w/adapter in tube amp). We'll see if my DAP will power it well @8Vrms and 2.3amps available. I am actually shocked at how many of my harder to drive head gear the Nutube  amp w/TRS only connection can drive well (though it is 800mW/32Ohms).


----------



## samandhi (Jun 21, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> *@samandhi *I just tried them with my *Meizu HiFI Pro* dongle "*tricked*" via an adapter cable to max output @ ~2Vrms with a thrust of ~9mW. They sound great with plenty of volume to spare.


Really? They didn't sound flat? I would expect they might be able to get some volume, but wtih that amount of impedance I would think they almost HAVE to have some good amping to sound good. What is the current supply of that dongle? Surely it can't be deceivingly high?!

Edit: NM, I realize what I wrote after I wrote it. Current shouldn't be much of a factor for these.


----------



## Setmagic

@WoodyLuvr nice foundling of Yinman.
@samandhi good choice of its true premium craftmens quality for such low price.


----------



## samandhi

Setmagic said:


> @WoodyLuvr nice foundling of Yinman.
> @samandhi good choice of its true premium craftmens quality for such low price.


Who could resist wooden shells?  They look fantastic! Hopefully they sound as good as they look.

@WoodyLuvr I promise I will not send you nasty PMs if they don't sound good to my ears...


----------



## WoodyLuvr

samandhi said:


> Really? They didn't sound flat? I would expect they might be able to get some volume, but wtih that amount of impedance I would think they almost HAVE to have some good amping to sound good. What is the current supply of that dongle? Surely it can't be deceivingly high?!
> 
> Edit: NM, I realize what I wrote after I wrote it. Current shouldn't be much of a factor for these.


Bass is less detailed and less impactful with the Meizu HiFi Pro dongle but definitely it still remains very musical and energetic... not flat or deflated sounding at all to me like some other 500Ω and 600Ω drivers can be with lower power. Chalk that up to a quality driver being implemented by Yinman.


----------



## Setmagic

samandhi said:


> Who could resist wooden shells?  They look fantastic! Hopefully they sound as good as they look.


I will wait for Your review 😜

I can wright essey like @WoodyLuvr or @Ronion about how solid wood sound in headphones or speakers - but it's sad.

I hope in that case will not affected the sound.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 21, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Ok! Ordered. While they DID give me a choice of connectors, they didn't mention color, so I think the dark ones are the only ones they have as you said. I trust your ears good sir!
> 
> I ordered the 2.5mm TRRS version since it is easiest for me to convert if I need to (I can use all three in one amp card, or only 4.4mm TRRS in another w/adapter, or only 3.5mm TRS w/adapter in tube amp). We'll see if my DAP will power it well @8Vrms and 2.3amps available. I am actually shocked at how many of my harder to drive head gear the Nutube  amp w/TRS only connection can drive well (though it is 800mW/32Ohms).


Awesome!


samandhi said:


> Who could resist wooden shells?  They look fantastic! Hopefully they sound as good as they look.


I know, right?!


samandhi said:


> @WoodyLuvr I promise I will not send you nasty PMs if they don't sound good to my ears...


LOL! Oh my wasn't that total insanity?! I had almost forgotten about that. Though in this particular case, and knowing your tastes, I will be surprised if you are not impressed in some regard. But if not, please do blow up my PMs with hate as from you it will be taken differently!😍


Setmagic said:


> @WoodyLuvr nice foundling of Yinman.
> @samandhi good choice of its true premium craftmens quality for such low price.


Honestly, I don't know what took me so long to buy a pair of these besides simply forgetting to do it and/or when I did remember it I was faced with an availability issue. I have heard a fair number of them from the original fixed and MMCX versions to the DR-08 (150Ω only), DR-09 (32Ω), and the higher impedance 150Ω Green Bull and enjoyed the Yinman warmth. Still have yet to get my hands on the lower impedance 32Ω version of either the DR-08 or the Green Bull though... no one seemed to be interested in them over in Siam 😥. Probably very similar to the DR-09 I am thinking.


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Bass is less detailed and less impactful with the Meizu HiFi Pro dongle but definitely it still remains very musical and energetic... not flat or deflated sounding at all to me like some other 500Ω and 600Ω drivers can be with lower power. Chalk that up to a quality driver being implemented by Yinman.


Sounds very promising! I have to admit, I have never heard any head gear over 300 Ohms (Senny HD800), but I have had some head gear that seems harder to drive (well) than even those (Tinhifi P1 for example) among other planars especially. This will be an interesting trip I think.  I was just starting to look around again. 

I know I just bought the RW3000 recently (and they really are great overall), but I gotta' say that even though they are a better tuned sound overall than the RW2000, I still keep coming back to those more often. I can't quite put my finger on it just yet. I think maybe in trying to balance out the RW2000 more, they overdid it, and now it is rather top heavy (too much so maybe). While I love the clarity, they took away the warmth that made them (almost) IEM(ish) with the super wide staging of buds... In other words, for me they sort of lost that magic that was the RW2000. 

What device do the Yinmans sound the best on to you (so far)?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 21, 2022)

samandhi said:


> What device do the Yinmans sound the best on to you (so far)?


Most definitely my tube amp... though it is a custom-made for earbuds special edition so no surprise there. Really the only time I have had to use High Gain (or rather "needed" and/or better yet "could use") are with these new Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600 LE earbuds.


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Awesome!
> 
> I know, right?!
> 
> ...


I honestly didn't know the name existed until I saw your (lovely) pictures and description (and family link) of the buds. I don't normally buy headgear on a whim (except maybe the NichHCK EB2S) without doing some research. But If you are calling these warm, but clear and accurate in the resoltution, that is all I need to hear. I know you are sensitive to overbaked presence region, and you didn't mention this. I have yet to hear a good bud that isn't, so really I am sort of used to it by now though. 

Are all of those models still available? Is that why you are having a hard time getting them? Or is it simply where you live that is making it difficult? Or is it that you are alluding to the DR-09 sucking, and that the DR-08 and Green Bull might suck too, so nobody is stocking them?

Other than this thread, there really is no place to go to learn here in the US about the different brands of earbuds. As we have discussed in the past, doing a search does  good, and they aren't marketed (and a lot of times) not even reviewed here very well, if at all.

Anyhow, enjoy your new toy, and let us know your thoughts as you get some time on them?!


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Most definitely my tube amp... though it is a custom-made for earbuds special edition so no surprise there. Really the only time I have had to use High Gain (or rather needed and/or could be used) are with these new Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600 LE earbuds.


WOW! Is it the one pictured a few pages back?

We shall see how well they do with mine. So far (though I have only had it less than a week) I have not liked the sound with earbuds on it as much as I would have hoped. Time will tell though, I have only about 60 hours burn-in time with it.


----------



## samandhi

@WoodyLuvr Unless like you say they simply haven't updated their Aliexpress page, it looks as though the Yinman 2.0 (150Ohm) buds are still available here.


----------



## yaps66

samandhi said:


> Ok! Ordered. While they DID give me a choice of connectors, they didn't mention color, so I think the dark ones are the only ones they have as you said. I trust your ears good sir!
> 
> I ordered the 2.5mm TRRS version since it is easiest for me to convert if I need to (I can use all three in one amp card, or only 4.4mm TRRS in another w/adapter, or only 3.5mm TRS w/adapter in tube amp). We'll see if my DAP will power it well @8Vrms and 2.3amps available. I am actually shocked at how many of my harder to drive head gear the Nutube  amp w/TRS only connection can drive well (though it is 800mW/32Ohms).


+1. Ordered too. Damn! 600Ohms!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 7, 2022)

samandhi said:


> I honestly didn't know the name existed until I saw your (lovely) pictures and description (and family link) of the buds. I don't normally buy headgear on a whim (except maybe the NichHCK EB2S) without doing some research. But If you are calling these warm, but clear and accurate in the resoltution, that is all I need to hear. I know you are sensitive to overbaked presence region, and you didn't mention this. I have yet to hear a good bud that isn't, so really I am sort of used to it by now though.
> 
> Are all of those models still available? Is that why you are having a hard time getting them? Or is it simply where you live that is making it difficult? Or is it that you are alluding to the DR-09 sucking, and that the DR-08 and Green Bull might suck too, so nobody is stocking them?
> 
> ...





samandhi said:


> @WoodyLuvr Unless like you say they simply haven't updated their Aliexpress page, it looks as though the Yinman 2.0 (150Ohm) buds are still available here.


Yeah unfortunately they are little known and ignored by many. But there are a few out there that appreciate them immensely like *@chinmie *and  *@Alex.Grimm *who considers his original _*2016 Yinman 音曼 2.0 醇净 600 MMCX*_ to be the best earbud he has ever had to the extent that he has sold nearly everything else off except for his FiiO EM5 (if I am not grossly mistaken).

Yes, the DR-08, DR-09, and the Green Bulls are still quite available but like you said not heavily marketed or seen around everywhere. I don't really like the lower impedance models (32Ω/150Ω) as much as the higher impedance models (500Ω and 600Ω). Simply a personal preference.

Unfortunately, both 500Ω models (fixed/mmcx) have not been available now for years nor have they been reissued like their bigger brother the 600Ω.

Availability is very strange with Yinman in regards to the 600Ω model especially the limited edition reruns (reissues) as they are not heavily advertised; finish rather quickly due to being low numbered reruns; and/or are simply hard to track down to buy (or simply understand which model is available) online.

Will do!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 21, 2022)

samandhi said:


> WOW! Is it the one pictured a few pages back?


Yes, the one I pictured a few posts back. This was specifically designed for earbuds and is ultra-customized. More *here*


----------



## ttorbic

samandhi said:


> @WoodyLuvr Unless like you say they simply haven't updated their Aliexpress page, it looks as though the Yinman 2.0 (150Ohm) buds are still available here.


AVCCK Earphones Store has a pretty low seller rating (hugely inflated of course, but my preferred sellers are all >95%, and AVCCK is <90%). They also have some suspicious listings, like Senns IE600 for cheap...so, how trustworthy is this seller? Guess this is a question for anyone who has ordered from them in the past. Thanks!


----------



## FranQL

ttorbic said:


> AVCCK Earphones Store has a pretty low seller rating (hugely inflated of course, but my preferred sellers are all >95%, and AVCCK is <90%). They also have some suspicious listings, like Senns IE600 for cheap...so, how trustworthy is this seller? Guess this is a question for anyone who has ordered from them in the past. Thanks!


As far as I know, it has been reported here that after buying a 600 Ohm the seller has tried to offer you another model, when you insist that you want the 600 Ohm, he cancels the sale, indicating that he has no stock... but, nevertheless, he keeps ad.


----------



## samandhi

FranQL said:


> As far as I know, it has been reported here that after buying a 600 Ohm the seller has tried to offer you another model, when you insist that you want the 600 Ohm, he cancels the sale, indicating that he has no stock... but, nevertheless, he keeps ad.


Interesting! Well, when ordering mine this morning, I had him send me a picture of the ones I would be getting (which ARE different than the one listed). I also had him repeat that I wanted 2.5mm balanced connection (also not listed) just to make sure. Now, we'll see if this holds true when I get them. If they arrive in a timely fashion (well, timely for the China Post could be months), and they are what was agreed upon, I will have no issue with them.


----------



## yaps66

samandhi said:


> Interesting! Well, when ordering mine this morning, I had him send me a picture of the ones I would be getting (which ARE different than the one listed). I also had him repeat that I wanted 2.5mm balanced connection (also not listed) just to make sure. Now, we'll see if this holds true when I get them. If they arrive in a timely fashion (well, timely for the China Post could be months), and they are what was agreed upon, I will have no issue with them.


Haha! Feels like you would have struck lottery if you get what you want!


----------



## samandhi

yaps66 said:


> Haha! Feels like you would have struck lottery if you get what you want!


LOL IKR?


----------



## yaps66

samandhi said:


> LOL IKR?


I'll leave mine to fate and see what I get!


----------



## yaps66

yaps66 said:


> I'll leave mine to fate and see what I get!


As it happened, AVCCK Store contacted me.  They said they only have the black version (I chose the grey) and they give me a choice of terminations (3.5; 2.5 and 4.4). I chose the 4.4.

I guess I just rigged my lottery!


----------



## nofarewell

My red MDR-E262s with Hiegi foams, awesome sound (these Hiegis are really worth it) 🍵😎


----------



## samandhi

nofarewell said:


> My red MDR-E262s with Hiegi foams, awesome sound (these Hiegis are really worth it) 🍵😎


Very nice-looking set!

They are indeed really good foams! I was skeptical myself until I bought a set.


----------



## furyossa

nofarewell said:


> My red MDR-E262s with Hiegi foams, awesome sound (these Hiegis are really worth it) 🍵😎


Buds definitely worth more  
Can you take some pictures without foams?


----------



## nofarewell

furyossa said:


> Buds definitely worth more
> Can you take some pictures without foams?


Yeah. Bit dark here now. Rubber rings are not in the best shape, but the housing definitely is.


----------



## furyossa

nofarewell said:


> Yeah. Bit dark here now. Rubber rings are not in the best shape, but the housing definitely is.


Thanks. They look really cool. 
Mr Woody will probably write some info about them later ... something that can see on the package .


----------



## SlimCharles

Anyone tried EMX500? Just got mine and I'm absolutely blown away. It destroys my Yincrow X6 and 1More EO320.


----------



## samandhi

SlimCharles said:


> Anyone tried EMX500? Just got mine and I'm absolutely blown away. It destroys my Yincrow X6 and 1More EO320.


Care to share more, and maybe some pics?


----------



## nofarewell

furyossa said:


> Thanks. They look really cool.
> Mr Woody will probably write some info about them later ... something that can see on the package .


I know, right? I never talked to anyone who knew more about these gems 😎
Although the biggest question is I think, and I maybe am not alone with this query - is why are these not manufactured anymore. 🙂


----------



## samandhi

nofarewell said:


> I know, right? I never talked to anyone who knew more about these gems 😎
> Although the biggest question is I think, and I maybe am not alone with this query - is why are these not manufactured anymore. 🙂


I know! He seems to know about almost every pair that has ever been (and shall yet be ). 

Probably sales. Earbuds are/have been a niche product; though they are picking up popularity again as time goes by, and tech gets better IMHO. 

When the Sony Linkbuds came out Sony was touting them as remarkably unique (and I am not talking about the wireless part), and they are. But, it seems as though they were marketing them as if they were the only classic earbuds you can get (a whole new way to listen to your music). Yeah, they do have a hole in them, but they are classic flathead earbuds at the end of the day. They ARE different, but they borrowed the design from old school earbuds, and people believed them to be a totally new type of technology (which Sony encouraged IMO). People have bought them because Sony marketed them as they did, and people seemed to have not heard of anything like it (being open). I bought them BECAUSE they are flatheads that are wireless; simple as that... LOL They DO have some really nice extra features though that I really like!

More and more people are forgetting about classic earbuds. Heck, even the name has been stolen to describe any IEM that is TWS or the fruit-pods that are ALMOST earbuds; go ahead, do a search on Google, I dare ya'.  I bet you won't find many/any flathead earbuds (at least in the US anyhow). If you ask youngsters about earbuds, I would bet they will either quote a TWS, those fruit-pods, or ask "Oh you mean those old crappy things that used to come free with iPods?" 

Until a couple of years ago, and I started visiting this thread, I had also forgotten how good they can be (I won't forget again, I can tell you that).


----------



## furyossa

nofarewell said:


> I know, right? I never talked to anyone who knew more about these gems 😎
> Although the biggest question is I think, and I maybe am not alone with this query - is why are these not manufactured anymore. 🙂


No one know more about Sony and AIWA than Mr Woody.


samandhi said:


> When the Sony Linkbuds came out Sony was touting them as remarkably unique (and I am not talking about the wireless part), and they are. But, it seems as though they were marketing them as if they were the only classic earbuds you can get (a whole new way to listen to your music). Yeah, they do have a hole in them, but they are classic flathead earbuds at the end of the day. They ARE different, but they borrowed the design from old school earbuds, and people believed them to be a totally new type of technology (which Sony encouraged IMO). People have bought them because Sony marketed them as they did, and people seemed to have not heard of anything like it (being open). I bought them BECAUSE they are flatheads that are wireless; simple as that... LOL They DO have some really nice extra features though that I really like!
> 
> More and more people are forgetting about classic earbuds. Heck, even the name has been stolen to describe any IEM that is TWS or the fruit-pods that are ALMOST earbuds; go ahead, do a search on Google, I dare ya'.  I bet you won't find many/any flathead earbuds (at least in the US anyhow). If you ask youngsters about earbuds, I would bet they will either quote a TWS, those fruit-pods, or ask "Oh you mean those old crappy things that used to come free with iPods?"
> 
> Until a couple of years ago, and I started visiting this thread, I had also forgotten how good they can be (I won't forget again, I can tell you that).


I agree, they have some innovative features and that's all. But again, some less expensive buds (DIY included) can beat them easily, when it comes to sound.
What surprises me the most is that Sony usually releases new stuff for its products after a couple of years, but LinkBuds 2 came out in less than a year.
They probably realized that the ring driver is not an ideal solution, especially for outdoor or noisy environment.


----------



## nofarewell

samandhi said:


> I know! He seems to know about almost every pair that has ever been (and shall yet be ).
> 
> Probably sales. Earbuds are/have been a niche product; though they are picking up popularity again as time goes by, and tech gets better IMHO.
> 
> ...


Yeah, totally agree, I have the same experiences here in Hungary too. Usually the sceptical part with people only lasts until they listen to one of my vintage earphones though (both buds and on ears) 😎
But it's good to see how the earbud world is not forgotten, on the contrary, many manufacturers keep it alive. I get this info from this thread as well, mostly. Maybe I'll too do some experimentation in the future, who knows...


----------



## SlimCharles

samandhi said:


> Care to share more, and maybe some pics?






Sorry for the quality, certainly not the best photographer in the world. 

About the sound, for me there is no comparison between the EMX and Yincrow and 1more. It's instantly noticeable that the EMX500 is way more resolving. I'm specially surprised by the tightness and slam of the bass.


----------



## Eduardiofilo

WoodyLuvr said:


> *All About Flathead Earbud Cushions*
> *by @WoodyLuvr, @assassin10000, @furyossa, and @jogawag *
> *Picture Source: Head-Fi Archive Mostly*
> 
> ...


Hi, do you know if others stores apart Venture Electronics sell that Ultra Thin Foams?


----------



## leaky74 (Jun 23, 2022)

Got these @Kobemghri Gojibuds today & really liking them. Packaging is nice and cute and the build quality of the buds and cable is great.

Sonically, details and texture across the lower frequencies are excellent. Nice punchy mid bass with a smooth transition to mids. Treble is somewhat rolled off but the open back steps in to provide staging and airiness without being fatiguing at all. A solid recommend. I think my daughter wants the Juniors now!


----------



## Sam L

leaky74 said:


> Got these @ Kobemghri Gojibuds today & really liking them. Packaging is nice and cute and the build quality of the buds and cable is great.
> 
> Sonically, details and texture across the lower frequencies are excellent. Nice punchy mid bass with a smooth transition to mids. Treble is somewhat rolled off but the open back steps in to provide staging and airiness without being fatiguing at all. A solid recommend. I think my daughter wants the Juniors now!


wow, such a nice looking earbud!


----------



## mt877

Lenni said:


> I bought a pair of Fiio EM5 a week ago. At first, I was very disappointed with them. The vocal sounded distant. They sounded nothing like what I read in reviews. I think it was after the third or fourth time while I was using them with my phone that suddenly the sound came alive. Now the reviews make sense. They sound great.
> 
> I'm wondering what caused this. Was it the phone plug? I'm pretty sure I pushed the Jack down into the plug. Or something is wrong with the buds?
> 
> Should I return them for another new pair or should I keep them?


It could be how you positioned them in your ears(?). In my own listening tests I like using donut foams and using a source that is pretty neutral.

Here's my mini review of Fiio EM5 vs Yincrow RW-3000. Maybe that will ease your EM5 concerns.


----------



## mt877 (Jun 23, 2022)

Sam L said:


> wow, such a nice looking earbud!



You can get em at Kobe Audio Shopee store. Not sure how shopping at Shopee is, I can't figure out if they ship anywhere other than in the Philippines.


----------



## leaky74

mt877 said:


> You can get em at Kobe Audio Shopee store. Not sure how shopping at Shopee is, I can't figure out if they ship anywhere other than in the Philippines.


They were kind enough to ship to the U.K. for me


----------



## GojiFi

leaky74 said:


> Got these @ Kobemghri Gojibuds today & really liking them. Packaging is nice and cute and the build quality of the buds and cable is great.
> 
> Sonically, details and texture across the lower frequencies are excellent. Nice punchy mid bass with a smooth transition to mids. Treble is somewhat rolled off but the open back steps in to provide staging and airiness without being fatiguing at all. A solid recommend. I think my daughter wants the Juniors now!


Thanks for the feedback!


----------



## yaps66

Had some mail today.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 20, 2022)

furyossa said:


> Thanks. They look really cool.
> Mr Woody will probably write some info about them later ... something that can see on the package .





nofarewell said:


> I know, right? I never talked to anyone who knew more about these gems 😎
> Although the biggest question is I think, and I maybe am not alone with this query - is why are these not manufactured anymore. 🙂


You guys know me too well... I am so predictable now! I can not resist responding with some data... particularly about this earbud as I know it's inventor!

*Sony* *MDR-E262 "Nude Turbo"*​Impedance/Sensitivity: *18Ω @ 108dB/mW *​Diaphragm Size/Type: *16mm Dome*​Frequency Range: *16-22,000Hz *_(though some specs incorrectly offered 18-21,000Hz)_​Allowable Power Input: *50mW *_(though max power input was just over 100mW)_​Cable: *1.2m OFC Litz w/ L-Type 3.5TRS jack*​Weight *5.5g *_(not including the cable)_​Debuted: *January 1984 *_(though some models were pre-released to select stores over the Christmas/New Year holiday period)_​
This earbud was designed by Sony audio-engineering legend Makoto Yamagishi. He and his team had created Sony's first flathead earbud the MDR-E252 that debuted in JUNE 1982 and Makoto went on to create Sony's renowned "Acoustic Turbo System" aka "Nude Turbo" / "Turbo Nude" which was used in Sony earbud models starting from 1984 onwards, as well as deployed in Aiwa's GT and Pipe Phone models from 1985 and 1988 onwards... by 1982 Sony was a majority controlling parent of Aiwa and heavily influenced Aiwa product designs and used them as a platform to test out new technologies and designs.

The Sony MDR-E262 and then Sony MDR-E242, both introduced in 1984, were the first models to make use of Yamagishi's acoustic turbo system which initially employed a single vent at the end of the stem as shown in the pic on the left. The 1988 Sony MDR-E484 Twin Turbo Nude "Cela", utilizing two vents (one in the stem and one behind the driver as seen in the picture on the right), is considered to be the pinnacle of Makoto Yamagishi's _acoustic turbo system _design. 

Sony MDR-E262 vs Sony MDR-E242


   vs  



Makoto's crown jewel was the Sony MDR-E282 Nude Turbo II aka Nude CD more *here*.




Makoto Yamagishi (above) retired from Sony in 2009 and went on to create the IEM company Ocharaku Corporation.


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> You guys know me too well... I am so predictable now! I can not resist responding with some data... particularly about this earbud as I know it's inventor!
> 
> *Sony* *MDR-E262 "Nude Turbo"*​Impedance/Sensitivity: *18Ω @ 108dB/mW *​Diaphragm Size/Type: *16mm Dome*​Frequency Range: *16-22,000Hz *_(though some specs incorrectly offered 18-21,000Hz)_​Allowable Power Input: *50mW *_(though max power input was just over 100mW)_​Cable: *1.2m OFC Litz w/ L-Type 3.5TRS jack*​Weight *5.5g *_(not including the cable)_​Debuted: *January 1984 *_(though some models were pre-released to select stores over the Christmas/New Year holiday period)_​
> This earbud was designed by Sony audio-engineering legend Makoto Yamagishi. He and his team had created Sony's first flathead earbud the MDR-E252 that debuted in JUNE 1982 and Makoto went on to create Sony's renowned "Acoustic Turbo System" aka "Nude Turbo" / "Turbo Nude" which was used in Sony earbud models starting from 1984 onwards, as well as deployed in Aiwa's GT and Pipe Phone models from 1985 and 1988 onwards... by 1982 Sony was a majority controlling parent of Aiwa and heavily influenced Aiwa product designs and used them as a platform to test out new technologies and designs.
> ...


I didn't expect any less from you. This is amazing info. 
And after Sony and AIWA, Makoto still doing some fantastic job


----------



## nofarewell

WoodyLuvr said:


> You guys know me too well... I am so predictable now! I can not resist responding with some data... particularly about this earbud as I know it's inventor!
> 
> *Sony* *MDR-E262 "Nude Turbo"*​Impedance/Sensitivity: *18Ω @ 108dB/mW *​Diaphragm Size/Type: *16mm Dome*​Frequency Range: *16-22,000Hz *_(though some specs incorrectly offered 18-21,000Hz)_​Allowable Power Input: *50mW *_(though max power input was just over 100mW)_​Cable: *1.2m OFC Litz w/ L-Type 3.5TRS jack*​Weight *5.5g *_(not including the cable)_​Debuted: *January 1984 *_(though some models were pre-released to select stores over the Christmas/New Year holiday period)_​
> This earbud was designed by Sony audio-engineering legend Makoto Yamagishi. He and his team had created Sony's first flathead earbud the MDR-E252 that debuted in JUNE 1982 and Makoto went on to create Sony's renowned "Acoustic Turbo System" aka "Nude Turbo" / "Turbo Nude" which was used in Sony earbud models starting from 1984 onwards, as well as deployed in Aiwa's GT and Pipe Phone models from 1985 and 1988 onwards... by 1982 Sony was a majority controlling parent of Aiwa and heavily influenced Aiwa product designs and used them as a platform to test out new technologies and designs.
> ...


You really know him? I read an interview a few years ago with him...I wish I could just meet him and pick his brains about all the tech used  He must be a genius. E484 should be the best from the golden era Sonys with E282 and E565-E575. I have both E484 and E282, but unfortunately my E484s lack drivers. Although my E282 sounds absolutely stellar, the best earbuds I have ever came across. Very mid-forward though, but the details, the soundstage, instrument separation are just brilliant. I also heard intact E484s, and tbh it's a hard decision between them and E282s.


----------



## mt877

yaps66 said:


> Had some mail today.


You've been busy. Nice haul!


----------



## nofarewell

furyossa said:


> I didn't expect any less from you. This is amazing info.
> And after Sony and AIWA, Makoto still doing some fantastic job



Yes! heard about his new brand, have any of you listened to those?


----------



## furyossa

nofarewell said:


> Yes! heard about his new brand, have any of you listened to those?


Mr Woody of courseHe said that they are “deadly” to treble sensitive people.
BTW ... It's not new brand.


----------



## yaps66

mt877 said:


> You've been busy. Nice haul!


Love buds! So very addictive!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

nofarewell said:


> You really know him? I read an interview a few years ago with him...I wish I could just meet him and pick his brains about all the tech used  He must be a genius. E484 should be the best from the golden era Sonys with E282 and E565-E575. I have both E484 and E282, but unfortunately my E484s lack drivers. Although my E282 sounds absolutely stellar, the best earbuds I have ever came across. Very mid-forward though, but the details, the soundstage, instrument separation are just brilliant. I also heard intact E484s, and tbh it's a hard decision between them and E282s.


Yes, my elder Japanese Two-Channel & Thermionic Valve mentor and Makoto were best friends.

Indeed, there a number of golden era Sony and Aiwa earbuds that vie for first place.


----------



## GREQ

WoodyLuvr said:


> "Acoustic Turbo System" aka "Nude Turbo" / "Turbo Nude"


"Turbo Nude" sounds more like a brand for stripper-clothing.


----------



## samandhi

Please welcome to the stage, the one.. The only... Turbo-Nude... 


Nope, sounds more like a stripper's name than their clothing.. LOL


----------



## SlimCharles

I keep on being surprised by the Fengru EMX500. 

Before it I tried others: Qian69, Yincrow X6, Boarseman ¿K25?, 1more EO320, Edifier H180 and the typical stuff you get with smartphones (Samsung, Huawei...). NONE is nowhere near the resolving capabilities of the Fengru. Maybe the Qian, I don't remember too well, but still I'm fearly confident the Fengru is better. Because I've tried most open backs that worth noting until the 200 euro mark: DT990, AD700x, K701, HD560s, Fidelio X2, HE400i... And I can say only the Sundara is very clearly better in terms of microdetail. Obviously, over ear open backs smash the Fengru in terms of soundstage, separation and the "size" of sound.

But damn, that this 10 euro tiny piece of crap sounds so crisp compared to most big boys that cost 10 times more... Maybe earbuds are not that inferior as I believed.


----------



## samandhi

SlimCharles said:


> I keep on being surprised by the Fengru EMX500.
> 
> Before it I tried others: Qian69, Yincrow X6, Boarseman ¿K25?, 1more EO320, Edifier H180 and the typical stuff you get with smartphones (Samsung, Huawei...). NONE is nowhere near the resolving capabilities of the Fengru. Maybe the Qian, I don't remember too well, but still I'm fearly confident the Fengru is better. Because I've tried most open backs that worth noting until the 200 euro mark: DT990, AD700x, K701, HD560s, Fidelio X2, HE400i... And I can say only the Sundara is very clearly better in terms of microdetail. Obviously, over ear open backs smash the Fengru in terms of soundstage, separation and the "size" of sound.
> 
> But damn, that this 10 euro tiny piece of crap sounds so crisp compared to most big boys that cost 10 times more... Maybe earbuds are not that inferior as I believed.


Nice! The Sundara are a nice set too.

It is always rewarding to find a great set for your ears. But, I think it is even more rewarding when you find that "gem" that seem to be worth SO much more than you paid for it. Maybe it is placebo, but does that thought contribute to making them sound better???


----------



## SlimCharles

samandhi said:


> Nice! The Sundara are a nice set too.
> 
> It is always rewarding to find a great set for your ears. But, I think it is even more rewarding when you find that "gem" that seem to be worth SO much more than you paid for it. Maybe it is placebo, but does that thought contribute to making them sound better???



I understand completely the awareness of placebo, but I have A/B tested the Fengru and the 560S, and the Fengru is very very close in terms of detail retrieval. And the Fengru does have slightly tighter bass, which is remarkable considering the bass is much more prominent than the Sennheiser. 

Obviously, the big boy eats the earbud in some areas. And might seem I said otherwise, but I was not putting the Sundara and the Fengru in the same place. The Hifiman, as it should, munches the tiny Fengru in any area.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 24, 2022)

DDs and planars both have their pros and cons. DDs do some things very well... I always found imaging and timbre to be better (more accurate and natural); more punch and slam in the bass; and generally more impact from the music in the mids and treble with DDs rather than planars.

There are a number of earbuds that I found to have better timbre and imaging than full-size over-ear planars. My LCD-2s gathered dust when I came upon my PureSounds PS100-600S earbuds.

We all hear differently and have varied preferences which really throws a REAL BIG monkey wrench into the machine.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jun 24, 2022)

leaky74 said:


> Got these @Kobemghri Gojibuds today & really liking them. Packaging is nice and cute and the build quality of the buds and cable is great.
> 
> Sonically, details and texture across the lower frequencies are excellent. Nice punchy mid bass with a smooth transition to mids. Treble is somewhat rolled off but the open back steps in to provide staging and airiness without being fatiguing at all. A solid recommend. I think my daughter wants the Juniors now!


Very cool! Enjoy!

2022 - Kobe Audio w/ Goji-Fi Godzilla Goji-Buds Senior (64Ω)​2022 - Kobe Audio w/ Goji-Fi Godzilla Goji-Buds Junior (32Ω)​
Kobe Audio has had some interesting earbuds.


----------



## qua2k

I find buds to be perfect for in the office. I typically have 1 bud in so I can hear office chatter or if anyone needs me for anything/question. Also good spatial awareness just because I am not at home. Easy to quickly remove one if needed and quickly set back onto the ear. Picked up 4 pairs so far this year, each have their own little thing that I love.

FYI, if anyone has a Blur Wraith in 4.4 termination collecting dust, I would love to own one


----------



## samandhi

SlimCharles said:


> I understand completely the awareness of placebo, but I have A/B tested the Fengru and the 560S, and the Fengru is very very close in terms of detail retrieval. And the Fengru does have slightly tighter bass, which is remarkable considering the bass is much more prominent than the Sennheiser.
> 
> Obviously, the big boy eats the earbud in some areas. And might seem I said otherwise, but I was not putting the Sundara and the Fengru in the same place. The Hifiman, as it should, munches the tiny Fengru in any area.


Oh no, I didn't mean to say that you might be experiencing placebo at all. It was more of a theoretical question related to finding that "gem"..... 

But I might also suggest that given the right ones, I believe earbuds can definitely "munch" many full sized headphones IMHO.


----------



## Headcasey MD

Smabat M4 Promo Video:


----------



## jant71

Headcasey MD said:


> Smabat M4 Promo Video:




"Go hard!" but "don't suffocate my dreams" okay?


----------



## Headcasey MD

jant71 said:


> "Go hard!" but "don't suffocate my dreams" okay?


Really! But maybe they are referring to their previous line-up?  A buy back program for previous models?  The wave of the future is: MODULAR!


----------



## mt877

Headcasey MD said:


> Really! But maybe they are referring to their previous line-up?  A buy back program for previous models?  The wave of the future is: MODULAR!


Truly modular and good design concept. 6 or 7 different bud driver modules, don't feel earbuds for a day, then go with the full range balanced armature. Choose cable for highest quality sound or go wireless for freedom from cables.


----------



## Ronion (Jun 24, 2022)

Headcasey MD said:


> Smabat M4 Promo Video:



This looks to be their best design overall.  Hopefully it’s possible to reduce their pinna gain dominated sound signature of the past.


----------



## Black-Wolf

Smabat seem to be very active right now. 
But, as much a i like their creativity, i'll wait before buying: i feel they are the kind of guys who have a lot of ideas, often good ideas, but they often don't let their projects mature.
It sometimes give wonderful things, but some buds which could have been state of the art with some more time on the design board (St20 Pro) were a bit..."meh.." because they were a little rushed, i think.

Also, as much as some of us tend to rush on new "Flavor of the month", if you change your linup too often, your models can't become iconic (ex: Shozy BK, VE Zen...not the very best earbuds of the World, right, but they have become points of comparison for the market)


----------



## sunsun89

which driver from smabat that most valuable and best performance?


----------



## yaps66

sunsun89 said:


> which driver from smabat that most valuable and best performance?


I find that Smabat is unique in the way they tune their buds. There seems to be some forwardness in the upper-mids, lower-treble region which you either hate or learn to acquire a taste for. I am loving my M3Pro (which I did not at first) and while I am still burning it in, my ST-10s Gold. These seem more balanced, though the unmistakable Smabat sound is still there.

I really do hope Smabat gains some traction and survives what is becoming a competitive segment!


----------



## Setmagic

yaps66 said:


> I really do hope Smabat gains some traction and survives what is becoming a competitive segment!


We see in what times we live 
It's true hunger games for all sellers.


----------



## BCool

Do any of the Smabat drivers have deent bass?


----------



## baskingshark (Jun 26, 2022)

BCool said:


> Do any of the Smabat drivers have deent bass?



The ST10S Black Gold 150 ohm driver has big sub-bass. But for earbuds, drivers are just one variable, the housing and fit influence bass perception a lot. Smabat earbuds have some acoustic labyrinth structure that amplifies the bass apparently.


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> The ST10S Black Gold 150 ohm driver has big sub-bass. But for earbuds, drivers are just one variable, the housing and fit influence bass perception a lot. Smabat earbuds have some acoustic labyrinth structure that amplifies the bass apparently.


This is one of the reasons I can't wait to get the 150 ohm driver to put into the M2s Pro and A/B them to the ST10S gold.

Plus, these are meant to be worn over-ear (not that you can't wear them down, it just comes with an over-ear only cable). Though, it seems as though the original packaging and cable was changed, and it was actually a straight cable that came with them before?! Not totally sure on that one though.


----------



## yaps66

BCool said:


> Do any of the Smabat drivers have deent bass?


yes they do. Ultimately the quantity is a question of fit and seal. Iam not disappointed with the Smabat bass especially the St-10s BG


----------



## Ronion

sunsun89 said:


> which driver from smabat that most valuable and best performance?


Every one of their drivers that I’ve tried are excellent.  The 40ti is probably the worst one and it’s excellent IMO.


----------



## sunsun89

Ronion said:


> Every one of their drivers that I’ve tried are excellent.  The 40ti is probably the worst one and it’s excellent IMO.


what do u mean by worst one and excellent? btw, if u should choose 1 driver, what driver u will choose?


----------



## samandhi

sunsun89 said:


> what do u mean by worst one and excellent? btw, if u should choose 1 driver, what driver u will choose?


He's saying that even their worst sounding driver (compared to the other ones) is very good.


----------



## FranQL

sunsun89 said:


> what do u mean by worst one and excellent? btw, if u should choose 1 driver, what driver u will choose?


LCP 40 Ohm


----------



## Ronion

sunsun89 said:


> what do u mean by worst one and excellent? btw, if u should choose 1 driver, what driver u will choose?


It has the least bass and probably the worst timbre of the bunch.  I would probably take the ST10 driver though the LCP 40 Ohm dome, 14.2 bio and the Super One are all very nice sounding.  They all have a great soundstage, all have above average bass.  The LCP and bios have a timbre I love, but I have other earbuds that have those qualities as well.  The ST10 driver just has a bass response that is second to none in the earbud world—at least second to nothing I’ve heard and I’ve heard more than most.


----------



## sunsun89

Ronion said:


> It has the least bass and probably the worst timbre of the bunch.  I would probably take the ST10 driver though the LCP 40 Ohm dome, 14.2 bio and the Super One are all very nice sounding.  They all have a great soundstage, all have above average bass.  The LCP and bios have a timbre I love, but I have other earbuds that have those qualities as well.  The ST10 driver just has a bass response that is second to none in the earbud world—at least second to nothing I’ve heard and I’ve heard more than most.


bcs there's no opt for st10, the winner is Dome lcp 40 ohm? btw thx for your rec 


FranQL said:


> LCP 40 Ohm






which lcp? dome or full size?


samandhi said:


> He's saying that even their worst sounding driver (compared to the other ones) is very good.


thx


----------



## mt877

sunsun89 said:


> bcs there's no opt for st10, the winner is Dome lcp 40 ohm? btw thx for your rec
> 
> 
> which lcp? dome or full size?
> ...


"Dome titanium plated 150 Ohm" is ST10s driver.


----------



## mt877

Did you miss the FiiO FF3 promo flash sale? AliExpress Promotion Activity for FiiO Dynamic Driver Earbuds FF3. You still have a chance for a promo discount at the FiiO AE store between June 27 and July 1. Price at FiiO AE store US $84.99 - Promo Code = less than MSRP ($99.99).

Use the promo codes:


----------



## syazwaned

sunsun89 said:


> bcs there's no opt for st10, the winner is Dome lcp 40 ohm? btw thx for your rec
> 
> 
> which lcp? dome or full size?
> ...


I have M2s Pro with 150 ohm, Super One and Stock Driver. I wonder will M4 provide a significant upgrade over m2s pro and all its driver. Also the TWS and IEM modular option is very tempting haha


----------



## Charlyro222 (Jun 28, 2022)

Today I received a new earbud from my Friend  @FranQL that has been specially tunned for my tastes.
It´s named is Blackhole, with a 500ohms Driver.
I only can say thank you, thank you, thank you...... pure Bliss for my music Library.
Delighted how this album sounds with this outstanding earbud.


----------



## samandhi

Charlyro222 said:


> Today I received a new earbud from my Friend  @FranQL that has been specially tunned for my tastes.
> It´s named is Blackhole, with a 500ohms Driver.
> I only can say thank you, thank you, thank you...... pure Bliss for my music Library.
> Delighted how this album sounds with this outstanding earbud.


Fantastic (and fantastic looking as well)!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Charlyro222 said:


> Today I received a new earbud from my Friend  @FranQL that has been specially tunned for my tastes.
> It´s named is Blackhole, with a 500ohms Driver.
> I only can say thank you, thank you, thank you...... pure Bliss for my music Library.
> Delighted how this album sounds with this outstanding earbud.


Enjoy! *@FranQL* makes truly awesome earbuds!


----------



## ValSuki

Hello friends, I made something horrible or amazing, whatever you say, I will update you on the sound !
Inspired greatly by the Aiwa V99, I got this printed for me but my design. They fit too! Just havent heard the sound yet... i'll give impressions soon as I used the Foster clone drivers for this which I find absolutely wonderful.
In the diagram, the red is the vent for air. blue is cable.


----------



## ValSuki

OH yeah that bass vent works alright. A bit...too well. The bass was distroted, but insanely heavy and actually gave me the thought of subbass being there. Im assuming that is just the bass being too heavy but I had to add a bit of foam to balance it out inside the venting system. It worked, and it made the bud become more neutral with a nice clean bass elevation. Its a very nice shell, and I think I am going to continue experimenting more with it


----------



## thedjkhalid (Jul 1, 2022)

Hi, I have gone through about 2 pairs of Bell LBBS within 6 months, and as much as I like the earbud, I want something that won't die on me.

Both ended up having some distortion and the current one I have is having it on the right earbud.

I was wondering if I could get some recommendations for some buds that have a similar sound signature and tonality around ~$60.  I would prefer if they were not 15.4mm drivers since the fitment kind of hurts me.  I am using some faaeal rosemary's atm but I have to take them off at times.
I would be using either a laptop or the Qudelix 5K as my source at home (I listen to it for the majority of the day, and while working as well)

I listen to a lot of genres, from rap, hip hop, r&b, alternative, dream pop, game ost, anime ost, some latin, city pop.

I would prefer 3.5mm but 2.5mm is okay if the earbud itself is better than the other options.

Cable doesn't matter much, as long as it isn't prone to static and is somewhat durable.


----------



## DBaldock9

thedjkhalid said:


> Hi, I have gone through about 2 pairs of Bell LBBS within 6 months, and as much as I like the earbud, I want something that won't die on me.
> 
> Both ended up having some distortion and the current one I have is having it on the right earbud.
> 
> ...



I have an earlier version of these small, 14.3mm wooden earbuds - https://www.aliexpress.com/i/2251832803822151.html
They fit well, and sound good.
Since they're MMCX, you can choose a cable for your application, i.e.- Single-Ended with Mic ; Single-Ended without Mic ; Balanced.


----------



## thedjkhalid

DBaldock9 said:


> I have an earlier version of these small, 14.3mm wooden earbuds - https://www.aliexpress.com/i/2251832803822151.html
> They fit well, and sound good.
> Since they're MMCX, you can choose a cable for your application, i.e.- Single-Ended with Mic ; Single-Ended without Mic ; Balanced.


Thanks for the suggestion!  I will look into this one more.


----------



## Kumonomukou (Jul 3, 2022)

yaps66 said:


> I find that Smabat is unique in the way they tune their buds. There seems to be some forwardness in the upper-mids, lower-treble region which you either hate or learn to acquire a taste for. I am loving my M3Pro (which I did not at first) and while I am still burning it in, my ST-10s Gold. These seem more balanced, though the unmistakable Smabat sound is still there.
> 
> I really do hope Smabat gains some traction and survives what is becoming a competitive segment!



Just when I decided to pull the trigger on their site. It stated Alipay was the only payment method... I mean, do they expect everyone from the world would register Alipay, just to pay for their crowdfunding project?!

I guess we can wait...


----------



## baskingshark

Kumonomukou said:


> Just when I decided to pull the trigger on their site. It stated Alipay was the only payment method... I mean do they expect everyone from the world would register Alipay just to pay for their crowdfunding project?!
> 
> I guess we can wait...



Their last crowdfund, the ST20/ST20 Pro accepted paypal when I funded it. Hmmm seems they may have changed it, ya Alipay is a hard pass for me.


----------



## cqtek

Hello to all.

As usual, I'd like to share my humble opinion on some earbuds that I've always wanted to purchase. I finally made up my mind and was able to buy the iconic Earbuds Anonymous, thanks to the fact that I have been a member of their Facebook group for years, at a bargain price.

Here is my review:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/earbuds-anonymous.25938/reviews#review-28800


----------



## WoodyLuvr

I finally had to bite the bullet and quite painstakingly transferred my *ꟻ⅃ATHEAD TIME⅃IИƎ* to a publicly shared Google doc.

The timeline is now searchable and I do believe in a much friendlier reviewing format now. I will gradually expand this document to include dedicated timelines for specific brands and additional data sets and points related to flatheads. Let me know what you all think, negative or positive, I do not mind as I take constructive criticism well and will seriously mull over and thoughtfully consider any/all complaints, ideas, corrections, changes, etc. Please let me know of any access issues; thank you.

*The timeline is now at 2,536!!!* only a few hundred more to go as I know there are a good number of some missing junk models from Panasonic, JVC, Philips, etc. and a fair number of custom DIY models from small shops across the globe that the timeline needs to capture.

So without further ado I present:

*FLATHEAD TIMELINE by WoodyLuvr

https://docs.google.com/document/d/17e-hSsj5Gu1KrycCvLETCK3VbMaV_IhXnE_Ibp2z50U/edit?usp=sharing*


----------



## cqtek (Jul 3, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> I finally had to bite the bullet and quite painstakingly transferred my *ꟻ⅃ATHEAD TIME⅃IИƎ* to a publicly shared Google doc.
> 
> The timeline is now searchable and I do believe in a much friendlier reviewing format now. I will gradually expand this document to include dedicated timelines for specific brands and additional data sets and points related to flatheads. Let me know what you all think, negative or positive, I do not mind as I take constructive criticism well and will seriously mull over and thoughtfully consider any/all complaints, ideas, corrections, changes, etc. Please let me know of any access issues; thank you.
> 
> ...


Superb work.
A round of applause and thank you very much for sharing.
Really, it can be a unique reference list for earbuds lovers.


----------



## nofarewell

A Sony MDR-A40 is coming  😎🤘


----------



## yaps66

WoodyLuvr said:


> I finally had to bite the bullet and quite painstakingly transferred my *ꟻ⅃ATHEAD TIME⅃IИƎ* to a publicly shared Google doc.
> 
> The timeline is now searchable and I do believe in a much friendlier reviewing format now. I will gradually expand this document to include dedicated timelines for specific brands and additional data sets and points related to flatheads. Let me know what you all think, negative or positive, I do not mind as I take constructive criticism well and will seriously mull over and thoughtfully consider any/all complaints, ideas, corrections, changes, etc. Please let me know of any access issues; thank you.
> 
> ...


We are not worthy! Thanks @WoodyLuvr! Such a labour of ❤️!


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> I finally had to bite the bullet and quite painstakingly transferred my *ꟻ⅃ATHEAD TIME⅃IИƎ* to a publicly shared Google doc.
> 
> The timeline is now searchable and I do believe in a much friendlier reviewing format now. I will gradually expand this document to include dedicated timelines for specific brands and additional data sets and points related to flatheads. Let me know what you all think, negative or positive, I do not mind as I take constructive criticism well and will seriously mull over and thoughtfully consider any/all complaints, ideas, corrections, changes, etc. Please let me know of any access issues; thank you.
> 
> ...


Just WOW! I like the way it is presented too. Great job!


----------



## mochill

ValSuki said:


> OH yeah that bass vent works alright. A bit...too well. The bass was distroted, but insanely heavy and actually gave me the thought of subbass being there. Im assuming that is just the bass being too heavy but I had to add a bit of foam to balance it out inside the venting system. It worked, and it made the bud become more neutral with a nice clean bass elevation. Its a very nice shell, and I think I am going to continue experimenting more with it


I'd want without foam for full on basshead 😁


----------



## syazwaned

WoodyLuvr said:


> I finally had to bite the bullet and quite painstakingly transferred my *ꟻ⅃ATHEAD TIME⅃IИƎ* to a publicly shared Google doc.
> 
> The timeline is now searchable and I do believe in a much friendlier reviewing format now. I will gradually expand this document to include dedicated timelines for specific brands and additional data sets and points related to flatheads. Let me know what you all think, negative or positive, I do not mind as I take constructive criticism well and will seriously mull over and thoughtfully consider any/all complaints, ideas, corrections, changes, etc. Please let me know of any access issues; thank you.
> 
> ...


thank you for such a great work!


----------



## Lunairee

qua2k said:


> I find buds to be perfect for in the office. I typically have 1 bud in so I can hear office chatter or if anyone needs me for anything/question. Also good spatial awareness just because I am not at home. Easy to quickly remove one if needed and quickly set back onto the ear. Picked up 4 pairs so far this year, each have their own little thing that I love.
> 
> FYI, if anyone has a Blur Wraith in 4.4 termination collecting dust, I would love to own one


In a totally unrelated note... (not sure how to properly do this)
I saw in your signature that you have inorvin Hanna? what's your thought on it?


----------



## qua2k

Lunairee said:


> In a totally unrelated note... (not sure how to properly do this)
> I saw in your signature that you have inorvin Hanna? what's your thought on it?


I enjoy the Hanna a lot. It was my first bud purchase this year into this rabbit hole. It has a very warm signature, good for a lot of genres. It does well with edm, hip hop, and metal more than others due to the bass and sub bass which Hanna has a good amount of.

It is not currently in my daily van nuys case due to enjoying my 2 new Blur's but definitely  one that will make a return because of its ability to handle so much so well.

My only negative and it's a personal preference thing is that it does use the red silicone ring for the R indicator. I have thought about using some epoxy or similar to keep it from free falling.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Lunairee

hm... interesting. Since locally seems like it's not getting talked about much. I'll keep an eye out for it. 
also interesting is that you said it's very warm while rholupat (distributor) describes hanna as neutral.

sound is indeed a subjective thing. (and i might need to make a mental note to be careful of things rholupat describes as warm).


----------



## Black-Wolf

After some reading of WoodyLuvr posts, i ordered a pair of Yinman 600...i'm am quite hyped, i must admit!
Damn, 600ohms. I think i'll have to use some serious amping to get those beasts to sing!


----------



## Sam L

WoodyLuvr said:


> I finally had to bite the bullet and quite painstakingly transferred my *ꟻ⅃ATHEAD TIME⅃IИƎ* to a publicly shared Google doc.
> 
> The timeline is now searchable and I do believe in a much friendlier reviewing format now. I will gradually expand this document to include dedicated timelines for specific brands and additional data sets and points related to flatheads. Let me know what you all think, negative or positive, I do not mind as I take constructive criticism well and will seriously mull over and thoughtfully consider any/all complaints, ideas, corrections, changes, etc. Please let me know of any access issues; thank you.
> 
> ...


wow. Good Job! We appreciate all the work you've done.


----------



## samandhi

Well, I got my Smabat M2s Pro drivers today (4 of the 5). I haven't done any extensive listening as of yet, but OOTB my thoughts are that they actually all sound very similar. I don't think that any one of them has more quantity of bass than the others (even the 150 Ohms driver). To my ears the differences are in the presence region (and the graphs on the package also show this). While they are all boosted in the area, some more than others. Because of this, I believe that that gives the impression that there is more quantity of bass for them. Now that isn't to say that they don't sound different because they do. But remember, I have had no time on any one of them beyond initial listening. Also, because the nature of the way buds are, the differences (such as LCP, Dome, etc...) will be very subtle anyhow IMHO. 

I will have to give them some more time before making a decision as to which I like best though. But, I CAN say this, now that I have both the 150 Ohm driver, and the ST10S Gold, they are not really even similar in sound. I suspect this probably has much more to do with the shell than with the driver. For instance, the ST10S has quite a bit more sub-bass comparatively speaking. Because of this, it also makes the boosted pina gain seem much less, therefore more balanced to my ears (until one starts moving up in volume). 

Also, I was not able to audition the 32 Ohm fiber membrane driver because one of them was DOA. I fear this one is going to be an issue, because I will not pay shipping back to China from the US for a $10 driver. At the same time, I don't think Smabat will either pay for shipping or send a new one out. And I can't force them to do anything. Although I did get them through Aliexpress, so maybe I could file a dispute I suppose. Bottom line is that either way it goes, if I DO get new ones, it will be a long time from now I am sure. All of this is conjecture though, and I may be pleasantly surprised (though my experience with Chinese companies has not been good when I DO have an issue).


----------



## syazwaned

samandhi said:


> Well, I got my Smabat M2s Pro drivers today (4 of the 5). I haven't done any extensive listening as of yet, but OOTB my thoughts are that they actually all sound very similar. I don't think that any one of them has more quantity of bass than the others (even the 150 Ohms driver). To my ears the differences are in the presence region (and the graphs on the package also show this). While they are all boosted in the area, some more than others. Because of this, I believe that that gives the impression that there is more quantity of bass for them. Now that isn't to say that they don't sound different because they do. But remember, I have had no time on any one of them beyond initial listening. Also, because the nature of the way buds are, the differences (such as LCP, Dome, etc...) will be very subtle anyhow IMHO.
> 
> I will have to give them some more time before making a decision as to which I like best though. But, I CAN say this, now that I have both the 150 Ohm driver, and the ST10S Gold, they are not really even similar in sound. I suspect this probably has much more to do with the shell than with the driver. For instance, the ST10S has quite a bit more sub-bass comparatively speaking. Because of this, it also makes the boosted pina gain seem much less, therefore more balanced to my ears (until one starts moving up in volume).
> 
> Also, I was not able to audition the 32 Ohm fiber membrane driver because one of them was DOA. I fear this one is going to be an issue, because I will not pay shipping back to China from the US for a $10 driver. At the same time, I don't think Smabat will either pay for shipping or send a new one out. And I can't force them to do anything. Although I did get them through Aliexpress, so maybe I could file a dispute I suppose. Bottom line is that either way it goes, if I DO get new ones, it will be a long time from now I am sure. All of this is conjecture though, and I may be pleasantly surprised (though my experience with Chinese companies has not been good when I DO have an issue).


Please share your thought more on this, greatly appreciate it.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Well, I got my Smabat M2s Pro drivers today (4 of the 5). I haven't done any extensive listening as of yet, but OOTB my thoughts are that they actually all sound very similar. I don't think that any one of them has more quantity of bass than the others (even the 150 Ohms driver). To my ears the differences are in the presence region (and the graphs on the package also show this). While they are all boosted in the area, some more than others. Because of this, I believe that that gives the impression that there is more quantity of bass for them. Now that isn't to say that they don't sound different because they do. But remember, I have had no time on any one of them beyond initial listening. Also, because the nature of the way buds are, the differences (such as LCP, Dome, etc...) will be very subtle anyhow IMHO.
> 
> I will have to give them some more time before making a decision as to which I like best though. But, I CAN say this, now that I have both the 150 Ohm driver, and the ST10S Gold, they are not really even similar in sound. I suspect this probably has much more to do with the shell than with the driver. For instance, the ST10S has quite a bit more sub-bass comparatively speaking. Because of this, it also makes the boosted pina gain seem much less, therefore more balanced to my ears (until one starts moving up in volume).
> 
> Also, I was not able to audition the 32 Ohm fiber membrane driver because one of them was DOA. I fear this one is going to be an issue, because I will not pay shipping back to China from the US for a $10 driver. At the same time, I don't think Smabat will either pay for shipping or send a new one out. And I can't force them to do anything. Although I did get them through Aliexpress, so maybe I could file a dispute I suppose. Bottom line is that either way it goes, if I DO get new ones, it will be a long time from now I am sure. All of this is conjecture though, and I may be pleasantly surprised (though my experience with Chinese companies has not been good when I DO have an issue).


Did you notice differences in soundstage?

they do sound more similar than different.  

that 32 bio may not be dead….  That connector is a weak point in the design.  Their newer modular system seemingly aims to fix that.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Did you notice differences in soundstage?
> 
> they do sound more similar than different.
> 
> that 32 bio may not be dead….  That connector is a weak point in the design.  Their newer modular system seemingly aims to fix that.


Oh yes, I have noticed differences with that. I think that the Super One driver (100 Ohm) probably has the widest of them with the M2s Pro (so far as I can tell in early listening). Whereas the 150 Ohm driver seems to be a bit closer. The 40 LCP seems to be right in the middle. Since getting the new drivers, I haven't put back in the 40 dome (stock) to compare, though at some point I will also add that one into the mix. 

You are right, they DO sound more similar than different. Honestly (and so far), they all sound like the same driver with a small tweak to tuning. As far as the ST10S and the 150 Ohm driver, I would also say that they are more similar than different, but to my ears, they have the most difference in sound between all the drivers tested. 

I tried the 32 bio on both sides of the buds, and it was dead on the same bud on both sides. I even tried revisiting it later, to the same effect. Did you have something else in mind to look into?


----------



## Fabulo (Jul 6, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Well, I got my Smabat M2s Pro drivers today (4 of the 5). I haven't done any extensive listening as of yet, but OOTB my thoughts are that they actually all sound very similar. I don't think that any one of them has more quantity of bass than the others (even the 150 Ohms driver). To my ears the differences are in the presence region (and the graphs on the package also show this). While they are all boosted in the area, some more than others. Because of this, I believe that that gives the impression that there is more quantity of bass for them. Now that isn't to say that they don't sound different because they do. But remember, I have had no time on any one of them beyond initial listening. Also, because the nature of the way buds are, the differences (such as LCP, Dome, etc...) will be very subtle anyhow IMHO.
> 
> I will have to give them some more time before making a decision as to which I like best though. But, I CAN say this, now that I have both the 150 Ohm driver, and the ST10S Gold, they are not really even similar in sound. I suspect this probably has much more to do with the shell than with the driver. For instance, the ST10S has quite a bit more sub-bass comparatively speaking. Because of this, it also makes the boosted pina gain seem much less, therefore more balanced to my ears (until one starts moving up in volume).
> 
> Also, I was not able to audition the 32 Ohm fiber membrane driver because one of them was DOA. I fear this one is going to be an issue, because I will not pay shipping back to China from the US for a $10 driver. At the same time, I don't think Smabat will either pay for shipping or send a new one out. And I can't force them to do anything. Although I did get them through Aliexpress, so maybe I could file a dispute I suppose. Bottom line is that either way it goes, if I DO get new ones, it will be a long time from now I am sure. All of this is conjecture though, and I may be pleasantly surprised (though my experience with Chinese companies has not been good when I DO have an issue).


If you bought the drivers from their official AliExpress store use the "message center" and write them your problem. I had a similar experience months ago and they immediately sent me a replacement product without asking for anything back (the only small thing is that they made me make a small purchase of 1$ to get the tracking info). From my personal experience I can say that Smabat is the Chinese company with the best customer support I have ever found.


----------



## samandhi

Fabulo said:


> If you bought the drivers from their official AliExpress store use the "message center" and write them your problem. I had a similar experience months ago and they immediately sent me a replacement product without asking for anything back (the only small thing is that they made me make a small purchase of 1$ to get the tracking info). From my personal experience I can say that Smabat is the Chinese company with the best customer support I have ever found.


That is good to hear. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## mt877

Spoiler: Something arrived at my door today...



Still in the plastic wrap, will open it soon...

Carly Simon:

Anticipation, anticipation
Is makin' me late
Is keepin' me waitin'...


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Spoiler: Something arrived at my door today...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sweet! You'll have to fill us in on how they sound, feel, look, etc...?!


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Oh yes, I have noticed differences with that. I think that the Super One driver (100 Ohm) probably has the widest of them with the M2s Pro (so far as I can tell in early listening). Whereas the 150 Ohm driver seems to be a bit closer. The 40 LCP seems to be right in the middle. Since getting the new drivers, I haven't put back in the 40 dome (stock) to compare, though at some point I will also add that one into the mix.
> 
> You are right, they DO sound more similar than different. Honestly (and so far), they all sound like the same driver with a small tweak to tuning. As far as the ST10S and the 150 Ohm driver, I would also say that they are more similar than different, but to my ears, they have the most difference in sound between all the drivers tested.
> 
> I tried the 32 bio on both sides of the buds, and it was dead on the same bud on both sides. I even tried revisiting it later, to the same effect. Did you have something else in mind to look into?


Me personally, I’d just desolder all the connectors and make connections old-school.  Those connectors really aren’t very good.  I’d actually say they are the least consistent of any electronic connector I’ve ever used.  Soldering bud drivers is so easy and basic tunings are even easier.  You are a clever guy, I’d bet you could beat what SMABAT has done tuning-wise in less than a week with supplies.  Soldering is your best bet in the M2s pro.  All of mine that weren’t working actually work(ed) when the connectors were removed.


----------



## Ronion

Fabulo said:


> If you bought the drivers from their official AliExpress store use the "message center" and write them your problem. I had a similar experience months ago and they immediately sent me a replacement product without asking for anything back (the only small thing is that they made me make a small purchase of 1$ to get the tracking info). From my personal experience I can say that Smabat is the Chinese company with the best customer support I have ever found.


I have also gotten good support from SMABAT.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Me personally, I’d just desolder all the connectors and make connections old-school.  Those connectors really aren’t very good.  I’d actually say they are the least consistent of any electronic connector I’ve ever used.  Soldering bud drivers is so easy and basic tunings are even easier.  You are a clever guy, I’d bet you could beat what SMABAT has done tuning-wise in less than a week with supplies.  Soldering is your best bet in the M2s pro.  All of mine that weren’t working actually work(ed) when the connectors were removed.


I wouldn't mind that idea, except that it would be a royal PITA to change drivers "on the whim"...  Fortunately for me it is just the one driver that isn't working ATM... From what I have read about it, it is supposed to be the most "top heavy" of them all, so I may not care that much about it. 🤷‍♂️

Really? I didn't know it was that easy to DIY tune those drivers. Maybe I'll have to look into that a bit more. 

Well, I sent them a message through Aliexpress yesterday. They haven't read it yet. We'll see how it goes?! LOL

On another note, my New Yinman 600 should be arriving today. I am pretty excited! Thanks @WoodyLuvr for unwittingly recommending them to me.


----------



## yaps66

Incoming from @RikudouGoku: Lancer 1 and Saber 1


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Longyao-Yinman龙谣音曼
> 2.0 600 Limited Edition; 600Ω*
> 
> ​My new earbuds arrived! Very pleased with their performance thus far. Although warm-sounding their resolution and timbre is crazy good. And boy do they scale with power! Their rated sensitivity of 95dB ±3dB/mW is quite conservative as I am finding them to be much harder to drive than even my Puresounds PS100-600S (600Ω @ 93dB ±3dB/mW but definitely had felt they were actually sub 93 dB/mW in sensitivity). So I am thinking that these Yinmans are probably closer to 90-91dB/mW in sensitivity rather than 95dB/mW.
> ...


So, I got the Yinman 600 2.0 today. I'll start with the packaging:

 The box is not near as pretty as the one you got. It is raw wood, glued together. No stamps, or a finish on it. Really light and fragile pressboard. Just a sticker with Chinese writing saying "2.5 balanced". The contents weren't on a nice pillow like you got. They were simply placed in there. It looks like plenty of tips/donuts were included (of both black and white). The other major difference about the packaging (probably to make up for the crappy box) is the puck case they came in.

It is (I think) a faux leather exterior with plush foam in the inside. It is a zippered case and it is the exact same size diameter and depth as one I might get for iBasso IEMs or something to that nature. It does zip really easily too, so that is splendid. 

As to the buds themselves:

They really are very nice looking, and the 2.5mm balanced connector is very well done and with a decent strain relief. The cable is surprisingly supple considering the coating that it appears to have. Two things that really concern me for longevity with the cable is there is no "Y" splitter or chin slider. It simply stops being wrapped. The other issue is that there are NO strain reliefs on the buds at all. OH! and they didn't send a cable wrap with mine either. This one isn't too big of an issue because I have plenty of spare ones. Just mentioning it because for the price paid, it seems as though they kinda' threw this package together. 

The buds appear to be very well made, and they fit very well in my ears (pretty standard size IMO). I know that they needed to add the "shiny" protection to the wood, but the way they look, no one but me will know they are wood. If they left it the brown color that was the older model MMCX version, I would have liked it more. This is nitpicking, of course, and in the end I know, and they are really cool. 

Having only heard them about an hour now, this may not be too accurate, nor permanent but with the right power, these do indeed sound really good. I started out with my tube amp card with my DX300 with SE only. While I was able to get enough volume (not for cranking though), it was indeed flat and lifeless (comparatively speaking). Next up was the Amp11.2 card (the stock card). It is capable of about 1.2W IIRC, and it sounded much better (being SS probably also gave it some more clarity and speed along with driving it better). Then I put in the holy grail; Amp12 card. This one is capable of 2W IIRC. Now we're starting to get where we need to be. So all of my testing/listening will probably be with the Amp12 card. 

Man! Do these have some bass. It isn't a super heavy sub-bass (though it is pretty huge for an earbud; more than any other bud I have heard), though they do reach really low for a bud. It is like the entire bass region is boosted (low, mid, upper). And does it ever give off a warm feel. But the good news is that while the treble isn't overcooked at all, they have the kind of clarity mixed with warmth like you might get from a really good tube amp. Also, it is one of the first buds that seem to not be over boosted in the upper mids region in some way or another.

I don't want to say that that means the mids are recessed because (to my ears) they are not at all; just not shrill. I will have to say that the warmth that it has DOES make it a bit off tonally overall, but it does sound very good, nonetheless. The staging isn't as wide as something like the Maria II, but then what is? It is still fairly large and out of your head, like you would expect for an earbud. 

I will have to give some time before I "cement" the following comment, but I think these might have just knocked the Chaconne and/or RW2000 off the throne in my castle (see what I did there? ). But, even without having much time on them, if one is looking for a TOTL sound from earbuds, and I think these will be top notch for "all-rounders" too, then these are definitely recommended by me.

For sound alone (and as an early impression and provided you have plenty of power to drive them), I would give these an S+ as @RikudouGoku would say, or God-tier as @WoodyLuvr would say. 

OH! And also keep in mind, these are NOT forgiving of crappy .mp3 files (they sound like crap, and I think I can actually hear some distortion with them). Feed it well, and it will perform for you! 

Pictures (BTW they didn't come with the foams on them, I put them on before snapping the pic):



Spoiler: Yinman 600 2.0


----------



## samandhi

This must be my day! I got an answer from Smabat regarding the dead 32 Ohm driver. Here is their reply (to which I said heck yeah) :


			
				Smabat said:
			
		

> OK, you take a $1 link, I will send you a new pair of 32 euro drivers, OK?



Maybe I need to play the Lotto before the day ends?!  🤷‍♂️


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 7, 2022)

samandhi said:


> So, I got the Yinman 600 2.0 today. I'll start with the packaging:
> 
> The box is not near as pretty as the one you got. It is raw wood, glued together. No stamps, or a finish on it. Really light and fragile pressboard. Just a sticker with Chinese writing saying "2.5 balanced". The contents weren't on a nice pillow like you got. They were simply placed in there. It looks like plenty of tips/donuts were included (of both black and white). The other major difference about the packaging (probably to make up for the crappy box) is the puck case they came in.
> 
> ...


Excellent mini-review. Buying from China is, has been, and will always be an adventure... just like a box of chocolates! I wish you had received the same little box as I. Oh well.

Indeed, it can not be stressed enough that these high impedance low sensitivity drivers require power... UNLIMITED POWER!!!

Yes, they will play via the meagerest of sources but not well nor anywhere near to their true potential. This is not an understatement at all.

Agreed, although the bass is far from slamming it is rather present, extraordinarily deep, and extremely detailed making the overall bass resolution and presentation quite remarkable without any bleed into the midrange which is remarkable.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

samandhi said:


> This must be my day! I got an answer from Smabat regarding the dead 32 Ohm driver. Here is their reply (to which I said heck yeah) :
> 
> 
> Maybe I need to play the Lotto before the day ends?!  🤷‍♂️


Splendid news!


----------



## Charlyro222

Tantalus received, now some days on burn in.


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Excellent mini-review. Buying from China is, has been, and will always be an adventure... just like a box of chocolates! I wish you had received the same little box as I. Oh well.
> 
> Indeed, it can not be stressed enough that these high impedance low sensitivity drivers require power... UNLIMITED POWER!!!
> 
> ...



Thank you! 

Yes it is and adventure to say the least. Did you get the "puck" style carry case in yours also? And yes, I was looking forward to the cool little box too (though not sure why, it is a box...)

Oh yeah, and I knew I would end up with the higher powered amp card in the end, but I had to try since you were able to get decent sound from a very low power source. I wish my tube amp card had more power to it than a typical SE can provide, but I am thinking the synergy with the setup I am using ATM is "butter".

Well, here I might have to (almost) disagree with you. Take a listen to the song below: Atrey: Dark Prince (Final Cut) (also keep in mind I am listening to it in higher resolution)?! I like to use this song as a test for airyness, separation, bass quantities and textures because there is a whole lot of things going on from low lows to upper lows, and these really resolve well in that area, and there is almost some slam going on there (though it is obvious that it has more mid-bass for thump though). First part is the airy, and separation test. At about 3:26 it kicks into the bass, and then again around 4:40, and then again with another cool derivation at 6:52. Normally I don't like this kind of music at all, but when I heard it through my iBasso IT07s with the DX300, it was absolutely magical and completely justified the $1k I paid for them... LOL I decided to use it as a test track from then on. 

And the second song: Zapp & Roger: More Bounce To The Ounce is simply because I noticed there MIGHT actually be a spike around the 1k or a bit lower frequency. Listen for the (old school) fake clap sound. It is the only song where that particular frequency hurt my ears, so it COULD just be that song in general.


----------



## mt877 (Jul 8, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Sweet! You'll have to fill us in on how they sound, feel, look, etc...?!


Work is super busy right now with several projects running at the same (over)time. Not much free time for visiting the forums lately.

Ok, here's a little bit of info. I got the stainless steel version. The buds have some good weight for buds, but they're comfortable in the ears. The cable is very similar to the FiiO EM5 cable. The one thing I don't like about the cable is that it has a memory, meaning when I took the FF3 out of the box the left bud cable had a loose 'S' bend in it near the bud from the packing. Maybe it will straighten out with time, but right now the 'S' bend portion sometimes touches the side of my face, which is annoying. I think I'll soak that part of the cable in some warm water to see if the rubberized cable jacket will reshape itself or allow me to manipulate it somewhat straight again.

The FF3 come with 3 different foams. Thick (not super thick) if you want more bass. Medium/thin for balanced sound and donut foams for that extra treble sparkle. I tried the thick first and the bass was excellent, but the treble was too muffled, rolled off for my taste. The medium/thin foams really struck the right balance for me, as I'm sure it will also work for others as well. Nice bass and sub-bass (if the music has that sub-bass kick) while mids and treble sound just right. Not forward or recessed. This is my impression after listening to them for just a couple of hours and switching tunes to see how they perform. I haven't had a chance to compare them to other buds I have.

I'll leave it at that for now until I get more time to intently listen to these new FF3 and compare to other buds I have. Over all I really like them, nice sound stage, not wide, but not stuck in your head either (like some IEMs). Very easy to listen to without fatigue. Would I recommend a blind buy? I would. For their midrange price they perform nicely and I think would fit in great with anybody's earbud arsenal. FiiO's new 'drum head' bass tech sounds pretty good to me with the FF3's. The upcoming FF5's might even be better? I guess we won't know until they come out.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> I wouldn't mind that idea, except that it would be a royal PITA to change drivers "on the whim"...  Fortunately for me it is just the one driver that isn't working ATM... From what I have read about it, it is supposed to be the most "top heavy" of them all, so I may not care that much about it. 🤷‍♂️
> 
> Really? I didn't know it was that easy to DIY tune those drivers. Maybe I'll have to look into that a bit more.
> 
> ...


This is why I hope their new system works better.  I wouldn’t consider that driver top heavy.  I have it in the M0 shell and it has bass.  It does have very good treble!  It also has nice, deep, and tight bass.  It’s hard to fault any of the SMABAT drivers.   They all respond well to tuning as well.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> This must be my day! I got an answer from Smabat regarding the dead 32 Ohm driver. Here is their reply (to which I said heck yeah) :
> 
> 
> Maybe I need to play the Lotto before the day ends?!  🤷‍♂️


SMABAT people seem like good people.  Glad they are working to make it right.


----------



## mt877 (Jul 7, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Me personally, I’d just desolder all the connectors and make connections old-school.  Those connectors really aren’t very good.  I’d actually say they are the least consistent of any electronic connector I’ve ever used.  Soldering bud drivers is so easy and basic tunings are even easier.  You are a clever guy, I’d bet you could beat what SMABAT has done tuning-wise in less than a week with supplies.  Soldering is your best bet in the M2s pro.  All of mine that weren’t working actually work(ed) when the connectors were removed.


@samandhi, I would like to add to this as well. Do you have a multimeter? You can at least measure the driver impedance and see if it measures 32 ohms or is open at the solder pads where the connector wires are soldered on. If the voice coil is open then it's dead. The coil solder joints are probably covered with a protective coating (glue) so it would be hard to tell if there's a cold solder joint under the glue causing the problem.

Just another tidbit of info. The voice coil wire is exactly the same as transformer winding or inductor winding wire, but much smaller wire gauge. The wire is usually dipped in varnish to give a light yet strong insulation. The point I want to get across is that if the soldering end of the voice coil was poorly prepped by not removing the varnish properly that could result in an 'open coil' situation. In that case it would be a manufacturing defect.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Work is super busy right now with several projects running at the same (over)time. Not much free time for visiting the forums lately.
> 
> Ok, here's a little bit of info. I got the stainless steel version. The buds have some good weight for buds, but they're comfortable in the ears. The cable is very similar to the FiiO EM5 cable. The one thing I don't like about the cable is that it has a memory, meaning when I took the FF3 out of the box the left bud cable had a loose 'S' bend in it near the bud from the packing. Maybe it will straighten out with time, but right now the 'S' bend portion sometimes touches the side of my face, which is annoying. I think I'll soak that part of the cable in some warm water to see if the rubberized cable jacket will reshape itself or allow me to manipulate it somewhat straight again.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a fantastic pair!

 You'll have to share your impressions more when you get time, and also if they sound more similar or different than the EM5?! 


Ronion said:


> This is why I hope their new system works better.  I wouldn’t consider that driver top heavy.  I have it in the M0 shell and it has bass.  It does have very good treble!  It also has nice, deep, and tight bass.  It’s hard to fault any of the SMABAT drivers.   They all respond well to tuning as well.


The way it seems to be implemented, it does seem as though there are less points of failure, but we'll see right? 

I don't really have issue with any of the ones I have used so far, so you might be right. I think I was just resigned (undeservedly so) in thinking that Smabat wouldn't fix the issue. I was wrong, and glad to have been wrong too. 

So, is the 150 Ohm driver still your favorite of the lot? I think (so far) it is also my favorite overall, though I think the others have their niche uses that might make them my favorite in that regard.


----------



## Ronion

I wouldn’t straight out say that the 150 is my favorite, it can just do things that I don’t have from other drivers that can be fit into an MX500 shell.  The SO, little bio, LCP, and 150ti are all great drivers IMO.  Anyone one of them can be the one I want to listen to at the moment.  If I absolutely had to pick one, I’d say it’s probably my favorite.  I’m actually convinced that SMABAT designs the best overall driver lineup.  i wish I had more experience when I was first modding that 150ti.  I broke it and never replaced it.  I miss it, but I have very little time and money for the hobby right now.


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> So, I got the Yinman 600 2.0 today. I'll start with the packaging:
> 
> The box is not near as pretty as the one you got. It is raw wood, glued together. No stamps, or a finish on it. Really light and fragile pressboard. Just a sticker with Chinese writing saying "2.5 balanced". The contents weren't on a nice pillow like you got. They were simply placed in there. It looks like plenty of tips/donuts were included (of both black and white). The other major difference about the packaging (probably to make up for the crappy box) is the puck case they came in.
> 
> ...


Nice! Yeah, they really did send you the plain pine, no frills 'coffin' box... But that's not where it really matters.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> @samandhi, I would like to add to this as well. Do you have a multimeter? You can at least measure the driver impedance and see if it measures 32 ohms or is open at the solder pads where the connector wires are soldered on. If the voice coil is open then it's dead. The coil solder joints are probably covered with a protective coating (glue) so it would be hard to tell if there's a cold solder joint under the glue causing the problem.
> 
> Just another tidbit of info. The voice coil wire is exactly the same as transformer winding or inductor winding wire, but much smaller wire gauge. The wire is usually dipped in varnish to give a light yet strong insulation. The point I want to get across is that if the soldering end of the voice coil was poorly prepped by not removing the varnish properly that could result in an 'open coil' situation. In that case it would be a manufacturing defect.


I do have one. I guess I never thought of doing that. Though, I may have to resort to clipping alligator clips to needles to get a reading on them (my current leads are more for "larger things").  I'll have a look. 

Thanks! Good suggestion! I will have to take a look at it closer. Good thing I recently (within the last year or so) bought an LCD microscope for micro soldering. I am not getting any younger, and my eyesight is not getting better.... 

This sounds like a plausible reason for the driver being DOA. They ARE very cheap. I don't suppose QC is too high of a priority for these?!


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> I wouldn’t straight out say that the 150 is my favorite, it can just do things that I don’t have from other drivers that can be fit into an MX500 shell.  The SO, little bio, LCP, and 150ti are all great drivers IMO.  Anyone one of them can be the one I want to listen to at the moment.  If I absolutely had to pick one, I’d say it’s probably my favorite.  I’m actually convinced that SMABAT designs the best overall driver lineup.  i wish I had more experience when I was first modding that 150ti.  I broke it and never replaced it.  I miss it, but I have very little time and money for the hobby right now.


What about the 40ti (stock driver)? Because it was all that I had access too for a time, I got to know it, and I find it to be really good sounding also. 

Oh, that sux. Hopefully you can get your hands on another one before they decide to discontinue it?! I think the comparison between this driver and the ST10S will be a heated debate (in my mind only) for some time because I CAN go back and forth with those. I may resign to saying that they are different enough that I can't say one sounds better than the other unless one is looking for specific use cases. 


mt877 said:


> Nice! Yeah, they really did send you the plain pine, no frills 'coffin' box... But that's not where it really matters.


Good thing they sent the carry case inside of it, because that is what I will see more often than the box anyhow. 

What they lack in quality of their accessories, they certainly make up for in sound, I can say that for sure! I REALLY wish they had stuck to MMCX for these. I worry that I will have to open them up for cable repair at some point in their life (and so far these seem well worth it IMHO).


----------



## syazwaned

samandhi said:


> What about the 40ti (stock driver)? Because it was all that I had access too for a time, I got to know it, and I find it to be really good sounding also.
> 
> Oh, that sux. Hopefully you can get your hands on another one before they decide to discontinue it?! I think the comparison between this driver and the ST10S will be a heated debate (in my mind only) for some time because I CAN go back and forth with those. I may resign to saying that they are different enough that I can't say one sounds better than the other unless one is looking for specific use cases.
> 
> ...


In term of bass quantity, is RW2000 is better than Ms2 Pro with Super One Driver?


----------



## samandhi

syazwaned said:


> In term of bass quantity, is RW2000 is better than Ms2 Pro with Super One Driver?


I will have to listen to both against each other to honestly answer that one. I'll try and get to it tomorrow.


----------



## samandhi

Oh, I guess I forgot to include pictures of the Yinman 2.0 by themselves. here are a couple of shots:



Spoiler


----------



## syazwaned

samandhi said:


> I will have to listen to both against each other to honestly answer that one. I'll try and get to it tomorrow.


thanks appreciate it!


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> What about the 40ti (stock driver)? Because it was all that I had access too for a time, I got to know it, and I find it to be really good sounding also.
> 
> Oh, that sux. Hopefully you can get your hands on another one before they decide to discontinue it?! I think the comparison between this driver and the ST10S will be a heated debate (in my mind only) for some time because I CAN go back and forth with those. I may resign to saying that they are different enough that I can't say one sounds better than the other unless one is looking for specific use cases.
> 
> ...


I hate to say it because I really like that driver as well, but it’s my least favorite SMABAT driver.  It’s the one that sounds most bass shy to me.  It’s still a great driver however.  It has a huge soundstage and a wide frequency response…. It just doesn’t have the weight that I like in the bass. I would rate the other SMABAT drivers as 8-10 on a 10 scale with an average driver being a 5, but the 40 more like a 6 or a 7.  

I keep thinking about buying it.  It’s not like it would break me.  I just have a lot of expenses at the moment and it seems frivolous as I have a bucket full of buds LOL.  It sucks because my memories of that driver are very positive and I know I have a whole other level of skill when it comes to measuring, tuning or even handling drivers at this time and that driver has massive potential.  I haven’t even really tuned my other SMABAT drivers yet barring the SO.


----------



## ttorbic

yaps66 said:


> Incoming from @RikudouGoku: Lancer 1 and Saber 1


Nice! I have the Alter Rider 1. What are your impressions of your two Rikubuds?


----------



## ttorbic

Charlyro222 said:


> Tantalus received, now some days on burn in.


Ooooh you got the Tantalus #001!! Excited to read your impressions about them soon!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

samandhi said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Yes it is and adventure to say the least. Did you get the "puck" style carry case in yours also? And yes, I was looking forward to the cool little box too (though not sure why, it is a box...)
> 
> ...



No, I did not get the puck carry case but I guess it does make up for that atrocious looking "coffin" as so correctly named by *@mt877*!

I am pleased that the *2022 - Longyao-Yinman 2.0 600 LE* are performing well for you and to your liking as I had a very strong inkling that you would fancy these little wooden flatheads!


Regarding Atrey's Dark Prince... what a marvelous music piece! I actually never heard this before! Thank you for sharing it. Very well mastered with remarkable layering of chords. I bought the entire album immediately upon only a few minutes listening. Was this a soundtrack for a game or something?

I must admit though that on this Dark Prince recording you offered the *Longyao-Yinman 2.0 600 LE* do indeed slam at 4:40 as you offered and most definitely demonstrate their authority in the bass resolution department. So no disagreement but a rather enlightening observation you have made! Thank you.


*Bass impact* can be a difficult one to judge sometimes especially with flathead earbuds. To me bass impact really requires that the golden three: *depth*, *punch*, and *slam *maintain their strength and presentation across all the lower frequencies... something that open-air earbuds and open-back headphones have difficulty accomplishing in comparison to IEMs, closed-backs, or full size speakers. I probably should have been a tad more specific and said:

_"the bass is far from __*IEM-level*__* slamming* it is still rather present, extraordinarily deep, and extremely detailed making the overall bass resolution and presentation quite remarkable without any bleed into the midrange which is remarkable."_​​An excellent recording to use for showcasing bass impact is *Daniel Deluxe's Star Eater*... now the *Longyao-Yinman 2.0 600 LE* have absolutely no problem reproducing the bass depth and detail of this recording but they are struggling to maintain the slam and punch. Throw on a pair of mediocre IEMs or go two-channel and you will immediately understand what I mean. Another recording is *Grorr's Ddulden Dreams Beyond the Peak* @ 0:55 the gong sound is lacking the sustained impact (especially punch) with the *Longyao-Yinman 2.0 600 LE *but again the bass resolution is making up for it big time!
​
Regarding Zapp & Roger's More Bounce... I think due to both my aging ears and partial hearing loss in the upper half frequencies I am not hearing that spike or sibilance at 1K... thankfully so as I am horribly sensitive to bright, sibilant, fatiguing treble in general. I tried a few other 80s New Wave Funk recordings that have that same and sometimes rather annoying "fake clap" and also do not hear any 1K spike on the *Longyao-Yinman 2.0 600 LE*. Though it could very well be there and your younger, healthier ears are indeed catching it. *We will need to be mindful to offer this 1K spike as a possible con for some listeners*.


----------



## yaps66

ttorbic said:


> Nice! I have the Alter Rider 1. What are your impressions of your two Rikubuds?


I really have not had time to listen to them without any distractions but out of the box, they are different.  The Lancer is more bright neutral and the Saber is more U-shaped warm centric.  My preference is for the Saber as I do like a warmer presentation.  Both scale well.  I will be burning-in both after I have freed up some space for two other buds that are currently burning-in!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Charlyro222 said:


> Tantalus received, now some days on burn in.





ttorbic said:


> Ooooh you got the Tantalus #001!! Excited to read your impressions about them soon!


Awesome! My MMCX version of the Tantalus should be here any day now. Looking forward to comparing our findings with one another


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 8, 2022)

mt877 said:


> FiiO's new 'drum head' bass tech sounds pretty good to me with the FF3's. The upcoming FF5's might even be better? I guess we won't know until they come out.


Indeed I am too very much looking forward to the FF5 as it is rumored that FiiO has solved some of the fatigue and timbre issues exhibited by the EM5. Even more importantly the FF5 is supposed to be tuned as an all-rounder. Hoping that these rumors are true in all regards and keeping my fingers double crossed for FiiO that there are no QA/QC issues like they had with the EM5. FiiO has had some really stellar products in the past and generally treat their customers extremely well so I think they deserve some good fortune in regards to the FF5.

The FiiO EM5 is a nicely performing and great sounding earbud but they have had some concerning QA/QC issues which do seem to have been fully rectified by FiiO (FiiO is actually very good at responding to such problems so not surprised if they have been fully solved and corrected). The FiiO EM5, like the Moondrop Chaconne, is not an all-rounder per se but rather a one or two-trick pony. It is wonderful for specific music genres and/or preference'd signature tastes but will fail miserably for all-use purposes. It is most definitely a nice accompanying earbud to have in your collection for specific roles. Also, those hyper-sensitive to certain peaks in the upper midrange and treble may find the EM5 fatiguing as it may exhibit some "bright" and "aggressive" secondary sound characteristics especially with longer listening sessions and with specific music genres and certain recordings. I really liked them though but personally found them quite fatiguing and a little lacking in timbre compared to some other God-Tier models.


----------



## foniak

How often do you clean your earpods or change the foams? Im happy with the yincrows x6, but I use them so much that the foam is already pretty used, I dont want to get an infection or some bacteria, how do you cleans the foam, or should I just use a new one each month or something? I was considering an UV box thing but these things release ozone so I'll pass. Putting them in water with soap im not sure, may destroy the foam. What is the best method?


----------



## samandhi (Jul 8, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> No, I did not get the puck carry case but I guess it does make up for that atrocious looking "coffin" as so correctly named by *@mt877*!


Sorry to hear that, because actually the case is pretty nice. I like it alot! 


WoodyLuvr said:


> I am pleased that the *2022 - Longyao-Yinman 2.0 600 LE* are performing well for you and to your liking as I had a very strong inkling that you would fancy these little wooden flatheads!


You were sort of right. Fancy them? I am in love with them. These are brilliant. I can hear everything without having to try really hard, but they are smooth enough to not sound thin or fatiguing. I kid you not, I have had these in my ears since I got them yesterday (including sleeping, where they DID fall out after I fell asleep).  


WoodyLuvr said:


> Regarding Atrey's Dark Prince... what a marvelous music piece! I actually never heard this before! Thank you for sharing it. Very well mastered with remarkable layering of chords. I bought the entire album immediately upon only a few minutes listening. Was this a soundtrack for a game or something?


Yes, I thought so as well, and as was mentioned in my previous post, I don't normally like that type of music as well as other genres generally. I am not sure if it was a soundtrack for something, but they have other albums (from looking them up on Amazon Music HD). This particular album was introduced to me by our good friend miserybeforethemusic.


WoodyLuvr said:


> I must admit though that on this Dark Prince recording you offered the *Longyao-Yinman 2.0 600 LE* do indeed slam at 4:40 as you offered and most definitely demonstrate their authority in the bass resolution department. So no disagreement but a rather enlightening observation you have made! Thank you.


You are welcome! And you are right also, in that they don't maintain the slam unless it is REALLY present in the mix (which it is here).


WoodyLuvr said:


> *Bass impact* can be a difficult one to judge sometimes especially with flathead earbuds. To me bass impact really requires that the golden three: *depth*, *punch*, and *slam *maintain their strength and presentation across all the lower frequencies... something that open-air earbuds and open-back headphones have difficulty accomplishing in comparison to IEMs, closed-backs, or full size speakers. I probably should have been a tad more specific and said:
> 
> _"the bass is far from __*IEM-level*__* slamming* it is still rather present, extraordinarily deep, and extremely detailed making the overall bass resolution and presentation quite remarkable without any bleed into the midrange which is remarkable."_An excellent recording to use for showcasing bass impact is *Daniel Deluxe's Star Eater*... now the *Longyao-Yinman 2.0 600 LE* have absolutely no problem reproducing the bass depth and detail of this recording but they are struggling to maintain the slam and punch. Throw on a pair of mediocre IEMs or go two-channel and you will immediately understand what I mean. Another recording is *Grorr's Ddulden Dreams Beyond the Peak* @ 0:55 the gong sound is lacking the sustained impact (especially punch) with the *Longyao-Yinman 2.0 600 LE *but again the bass resolution is making up for it big time!


I listened to both suggestions (good songs btw, thanks for the rec), and you are, of course correct. But as you also stated, they have such good resolution and reach so low that most times it just doesn't matter. The fact that these have quantity AND resolution in the lower end is amazing to me.


WoodyLuvr said:


> Regarding Zapp & Roger's More Bounce... I think due to both my aging ears and partial hearing loss in the upper half frequencies I am not hearing that spike or sibilance at 1K... thankfully so as I am horribly sensitive to bright, sibilant, fatiguing treble in general. I tried a few other 80s New Wave Funk recordings that have that same and sometimes rather annoying "fake clap" and also do not hear any 1K spike on the *Longyao-Yinman 2.0 600 LE*. Though it could very well be there and your younger, healthier ears are indeed catching it. *We will need to be mindful to offer this 1K spike as a possible con for some listeners*.


I suppose I need to qualify deficiencies I might hear in any future (mini) reviews I write with listening levels, because this phenomenon is a victim of the Munson curve. It really is only present when I am at louder than normal volumes (I listen mostly at 60-80dB). The strange part is that no other song I have heard at those volumes does it except this one (so far)....

Also know that I am very sensitive in the presence region (not treble though, I'm deaf past 12K). This is why it has been hard to get used to the Smabat, and Maria II buds of the world. It has made me lower my listening levels with these (30-60dB)...

On another note, I would like to hear more of your thoughts regarding these?! I know you said you like them, but how do they compare against your (thousands of) buds you have had in your ears, for instance?


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> I hate to say it because I really like that driver as well, but it’s my least favorite SMABAT driver.  It’s the one that sounds most bass shy to me.  It’s still a great driver however.  It has a huge soundstage and a wide frequency response…. It just doesn’t have the weight that I like in the bass. I would rate the other SMABAT drivers as 8-10 on a 10 scale with an average driver being a 5, but the 40 more like a 6 or a 7.
> 
> I keep thinking about buying it.  It’s not like it would break me.  I just have a lot of expenses at the moment and it seems frivolous as I have a bucket full of buds LOL.  It sucks because my memories of that driver are very positive and I know I have a whole other level of skill when it comes to measuring, tuning or even handling drivers at this time and that driver has massive potential.  I haven’t even really tuned my other SMABAT drivers yet barring the SO.


Very interesting! Though, now that I have heard them (all but the 32 Ohm), I can't say I disagree with you. 

Oh, I totally get you there. I probably have way too much head gear laying around to not seem like I am frivolous. I keep telling my wife that I have all the different ones because they all sound a bit different (which they do), and she simply looks at me as if to say "yeah right". 

So, what driver do you have (perma) installed on the M2s Pro if you are using the other drivers in an MX shell?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

samandhi said:


> On another note, I would like to hear more of your thoughts regarding these? I know you said you like them, but how do they compare against your (thousands of) buds you have had in your ears, for instance?


I'll need another good week or two (perhaps longer due to a new baby scheduled to arrive in the family any day now) before I am able to fully comprehend their signature and make comparisons. I'll certainly post my thoughts and findings and will look forward to reading yours as well.


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> I'll need another good week or two (perhaps longer due to a new baby scheduled to arrive in the family any day now) before I am able to fully comprehend their signature and make comparisons. I'll certainly post my thoughts and findings and will look forward to reading yours as well.


Fantastic!


----------



## FranQL

samandhi said:


> Very interesting! Though, now that I have heard them (all but the 32 Ohm), I can't say I disagree with you.
> 
> Oh, I totally get you there. I probably have way too much head gear laying around to not seem like I am frivolous. I keep telling my wife that I have all the different ones because they all sound a bit different (which they do), and she simply looks at me as if to say "yeah right".
> 
> So, what driver do you have (perma) installed on the M2s Pro if you are using the other drivers in an MX shell?



when you get tired of that same sound over and over again I guess there must come a time when you want them to sound good, when that time comes... you will move on to MX500 or other shell


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Very interesting! Though, now that I have heard them (all but the 32 Ohm), I can't say I disagree with you.
> 
> Oh, I totally get you there. I probably have way too much head gear laying around to not seem like I am frivolous. I keep telling my wife that I have all the different ones because they all sound a bit different (which they do), and she simply looks at me as if to say "yeah right".
> 
> So, what driver do you have (perma) installed on the M2s Pro if you are using the other drivers in an MX shell?


The LCP


----------



## samandhi

syazwaned said:


> In term of bass quantity, is RW2000 is better than Ms2 Pro with Super One Driver?


I had a chance to listen to both with some different songs that I often use for testing bass, and while I could give a quick answer of this one or that one, it is actually a bit more complicated than that between the two buds. 

At first listen I was going to say that the RW2000 have more quantity, but then noticed that they actually don't, sort of....

The RW2000 has a pretty good boost to mid bass and upper bass, and this gives the perception that the quantity of bass is higher, but also with speed and accuracy. after listening to them both, I think that the SO driver in the M2s Pro actually has more quantity of bass than the RW2000 overall AND depending on what song you are listening to as to whether you would hear this or not. That is to say that there is a bit more sub-bass, and there isn't as much of a mid-bass hump, so they are more linear up the curve. 

So, bottom line is that the RW2000 will seem like more bass for rock and music with little sub-bass, and the SO driver will seem like more when there are lower notes audible (IE rap, pop, etc...). The other thing I noticed that does affect the perception of quantity is that the RW2000 actually has some pretty loose and slow bass with less texture compared to the SO driver (which might be why they boosted the mid-bass region); where the SO driver is much more textured, with very fast transients. Resolution is much better on the SO, so this might give the perception on some tracks that there is less quantity. Basically this means that the RW2000 sound pretty bassy at all times, where the SO will sound bassy only when called for or needed. 

So, in the end it will depend on what you define as better. Personally, I find the more accurate, speedier, faster transients to sound better to my ears. But there are those that really love the slower, less resolving, but having more presence at all times (rather than only when called for). 

Hope that was helpful?!


----------



## Ronion

I should add @samandhi,  the LCP is very, very good in this shell.  One of my best buds.  It is the only one I’ve tried in the M2s Pro shell that doesn’t sound too SMABAT to me.  In fact, I really enjoy it.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> I should add @samandhi,  the LCP is very, very good in this shell.  One of my best buds.  It is the only one I’ve tried in the M2s Pro shell that doesn’t sound too SMABAT to me.  In fact, I really enjoy it.


Really? Ok, so your preference is that the LCP is the best of the drivers when talking about the M2s Pro shell? Now that I have been listening to the SO driver (to answer the bass quantity question above), I really like how wide this one is. This is going to take weeks to get a good background on which one does this and that, and which one is best (to my ears) overall. I knew that my first impressions were going to be false in the end. Because they are more similar than they are different, one has to give them a good LONG listen to hear the differences. 

I appreciate sharing your thoughts on these with me. I know it has been a while since you were messing around with these, and I should have gotten these back then, but better late than never right? (I am not normally an early adopter, or even a mid-adopter either) 

On that note, I got another reply on the 32 Ohm driver from Smabat, and it was shipped the same day that I ordered the $1 logistics thingy... I am looking forward to hearing this one for the first time.


----------



## syazwaned

samandhi said:


> I had a chance to listen to both with some different songs that I often use for testing bass, and while I could give a quick answer of this one or that one, it is actually a bit more complicated than that between the two buds.
> 
> At first listen I was going to say that the RW2000 have more quantity, but then noticed that they actually don't, sort of....
> 
> ...


brooooo thank you so much bro! You just save my money ! I guess I'll stick on super one for a time longer 😉


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Really? Ok, so your preference is that the LCP is the best of the drivers when talking about the M2s Pro shell? Now that I have been listening to the SO driver (to answer the bass quantity question above), I really like how wide this one is. This is going to take weeks to get a good background on which one does this and that, and which one is best (to my ears) overall. I knew that my first impressions were going to be false in the end. Because they are more similar than they are different, one has to give them a good LONG listen to hear the differences.
> 
> I appreciate sharing your thoughts on these with me. I know it has been a while since you were messing around with these, and I should have gotten these back then, but better late than never right? (I am not normally an early adopter, or even a mid-adopter either)
> 
> On that note, I got another reply on the 32 Ohm driver from Smabat, and it was shipped the same day that I ordered the $1 logistics thingy... I am looking forward to hearing this one for the first time.


They all have what appear to be subtle benefits and detriments over the others.  None of them are bad.  The timbre in LCP and Bio diaphragms seems to be more pleasant and the ear can tolerate tuning issues more with them.  The ti diaphragms need to be perfectly tuned though the 150 seems to have tremendous potential with a tight deep bass and a huge soundstage.


----------



## samandhi

syazwaned said:


> brooooo thank you so much bro! You just save my money ! I guess I'll stick on super one for a time longer 😉


You are welcome! 

If you are feeling like you need more quantity of bass overall, you might consider getting the 150 Ohm TI driver for the M2s Pro?! Obviously, you have seen that I have not finished (thoroughly) listening and comparing these drivers, but it seems to me that the 150TI has more quantity of bass (while retaining the tight, textured, fast control); I think it is very similar in its presentation to the SO driver, just more of it. You WILL lose some width in the soundstage (to my ears), but I am thinking it has a warmer/fuller/thicker sound overall because of this. 

Take all of this with many "grains of salt" for now though, as I may change my mind about this the longer I get to listen to them. As you know it takes a bit of time to change out the drivers, and then put them back together, put the foams back on, etc... so it will probably never be proper A/B(ing).

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to talk you into/out of anything. I was just putting that out there in case you were itching for a bigger bass sound. The SO driver is EXTREMELY good, and I would be happy with it if it were the only one I had for sure, and the difference isn't huge IMHO.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> They all have what appear to be subtle benefits and detriments over the others.  None of them are bad.  The timbre in LCP and Bio diaphragms seems to be more pleasant and the ear can tolerate tuning issues more with them.  The ti diaphragms need to be perfectly tuned though the 150 seems to have tremendous potential with a tight deep bass and a huge soundstage.


Well, I will have to let you know whether our ears hear the same from these drivers...  Keep in mind though that I will be using the M2s Pro shell exclusively (at least for now) for these, so they might not match your findings either way. 

I do agree that none of these do I want to toss in the garbage bin though (I still really like the stock 40TI driver also)...


----------



## syazwaned

samandhi said:


> You are welcome!
> 
> If you are feeling like you need more quantity of bass overall, you might consider getting the 150 Ohm TI driver for the M2s Pro?! Obviously, you have seen that I have not finished (thoroughly) listening and comparing these drivers, but it seems to me that the 150TI has more quantity of bass (while retaining the tight, textured, fast control); I think it is very similar in its presentation to the SO driver, just more of it. You WILL lose some width in the soundstage (to my ears), but I am thinking it has a warmer/fuller/thicker sound overall because of this.
> 
> ...


Ah nice! I already have the 150 Ti ohms...guess I won't need to buy new earbuds these few months. The wife going to be happy I have extra nickels for her.. haha 😂


----------



## samandhi

syazwaned said:


> Ah nice! I already have the 150 Ti ohms...guess I won't need to buy new earbuds these few months. The wife going to be happy I have extra nickels for her.. haha 😂


OH! Fantastic. You are all set then for a while IMO. Both of them are fantastic! 

Oh yes! Wives will take all the extra nickels you give them, and then ask for more, so really if you think about it, you are fighting a losing battle either way...


----------



## leaky74 (Jul 9, 2022)

Birthday money spent


----------



## leaky74

leaky74 said:


> Birthday money spent


PS If anyone’s interested, I have a mint Penon BS1 Official available to trade for something of similar value.


----------



## Ronion

leaky74 said:


> Birthday money spent


VE Sun?  How do you like them and how would you compare them to your other buds?


----------



## samandhi

leaky74 said:


> Birthday money spent


The question is: was it B-day money WELL spent???


----------



## music4mhell

Hello everyone, 

I am writing in this thread after 3 years 

Seems like old earbud collection hobby is waking up from hibernation.


----------



## Charlyro222

Ronion said:


> VE Sun?  How do you like them and how would you compare them to your other buds?


Ve Sun Dice


----------



## leaky74

Ronion said:


> VE Sun?  How do you like them and how would you compare them to your other buds?


Yes, VE Sun & I really rate them. I’m a recent convert to buds but in terms of what I’ve heard, the Sun are probably closest to that combined sweet spot of what buds, IEMs & headphones offer. 

Obviously they’ve got the simplicity & form factor of a bud but also offer detail retrieval that’s more IEM like than other buds I’ve heard. Staging, both width & depth, are very HP like. 

Tuning is pretty balanced, with a slight leaning towards warmth. 

I need to caveat the above by pointing out that my impressions are with the Megatron. Unsurprisingly, the Megatron takes what the Sun do well and ramps them up to 11. I tried them briefly with the Mojo 2 and there wasn’t nearly the same level of synergy.

Forgot to say, build quality, cable and accessories are all top notch too.


----------



## leaky74

samandhi said:


> The question is: was it B-day money WELL spent???


Yeah, I definitely think so!


----------



## rkw

music4mhell said:


> I am writing in this thread after 3 years
> 
> Seems like old earbud collection hobby is waking up from hibernation.


It was always very active and never in hibernation.
3 years ago, this thread had 2903 pages (43,531 posts).
Today, 4121 pages (61,810 posts).


----------



## music4mhell

I mean i am waking up from hibernation


----------



## Ronion

music4mhell said:


> I mean i am waking up from hibernation


I’ve heard that when a bear wakes up, he’s hungry.  What are you looking for?


----------



## Black-Wolf

My Grand Rider 1 are on the way, i'm like a boy before christmas!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 10, 2022)

Ronion said:


> I’ve heard that when a bear wakes up, he’s hungry.  What are you looking for?


Have you taken a gander at what lies in his stable?




CAX, Zen 2.0 Black Edition, Stardust, etc. this individual wants for nothing...

*@music4mhell *I cannot recall which model Cypherus you own... one of the eight pairs of Black Edition or was it Zoomfred?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

leaky74 said:


> Birthday money spent


Curious if when you bought your VE Sun Dice did Lee by chance mention (offer) the upgraded god-tier VE Sun Copper edition to you? They haven't been available for years now but someone mentioned that he had a NOS pair kicking around still. Very nice earbuds nonetheless. I liked the Sun Dice very much. You have some happy times ahead of you.


----------



## Charlyro222

WoodyLuvr said:


> Curious if when you bought your VE Sun Dice did Lee by chance mention (offer) the upgraded god-tier VE Sun Copper edition to you? They haven't been available for years now but someone mentioned that he had a NOS pair kicking around still. Very nice earbuds nonetheless. I liked the Sun Dice very much. You have some happy times ahead of you.


Sun Cooper is aviable, but not listed on any eShop, you have to mail them. 
Have different signatures for sure.


----------



## music4mhell

WoodyLuvr said:


> Have you taken a gander at what lies in his stable?
> 
> 
> CAX, Zen 2.0 Black Edition, Stardust, etc. this individual wants for nothing...
> ...


Hey thanks for asking.
i bought the cax...as i wanted to get totl at that time... but i dint know there are only 8 pairs... it's a news for me

Thanks for asking...


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 10, 2022)

Charlyro222 said:


> Sun Cooper is aviable, but not listed on any eShop, you have to mail them.
> Have different signatures for sure.


Thank you for the correction mate. For some reason I was under the impression that all the copper metal shells had been used. It indeed has a different signature and I very much liked it when I heard it a few years back. Even better than the VE Sun Dice and VE SU in my opinion. How much is the VE SUN COPPER these days?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 29, 2022)

music4mhell said:


> Hey thanks for asking.
> i bought the cax...as i wanted to get totl at that time... but i dint know there are only 8 pairs... it's a news for me
> 
> Thanks for asking...


Ah, so you got one of the coveted Black Editions... nice! Lucky dog you! The only thing rarer is Herry's CAX Gold, only two pair were made or perhaps his White CampFred which but only a few pair were made.

Yeah, if I recall correctly it was *@Danneq* who had confirmed with Herry the total amount of CAX Black Editions that he had made. I don't even think he sold them all either.


2015​Cypherus Audio (CAX; Cy-Ax) CampFred; 32Ω (aka CF1; retuned Advanced Earbuds made by Herry Widjaya; Indonesia)​
2016​*Cypherus Audio (CAX) CAX Black Edition v1 v2; 32Ω* (mid & late 2016 upgrades of CF1; only eight pairs were made by Herry Widjaya; Indonesia)​*Cypherus Audio (CAX) Cardas Golden Reference; 32Ω* (an early 2016 model aka CAX Gold; only two pair were made by Herry Widjaya; Indonesia)​Cypherus Audio (CAX) QFred; 70Ω (retuned Advanced Earbuds made by Herry Widjaya; Indonesia)​
2017​Cypherus Audio (CAX) Blue Darth; 30Ω (retuned Advanced Earbuds made by Herry Widjaya; Indonesia)​Cypherus Audio (CAX) Campfred v2; 32Ω (retuned Advanced Earbuds made by Herry Widjaya; Indonesia)​Cypherus Audio (CAX) CAX Red Dragon; 32Ω (hand-made driver by Herry Widjaya; Indonesia)​
2018​Cypherus Audio (CAX) Crescendo; 32Ω (made by Herry Widjaya; Indonesia)​*Cypherus Audio (CAX) White CampFred Limited Edition; 32Ω* (hand-made driver; only a few pair were made by Herry Widjaya; Indonesia)​Cypherus Audio (CAX) Zoomfred; 32Ω (aka Baby Red Dragon; hand-made driver by Herry Widjaya; Indonesia)​Cypherus Audio (CAX) Zoomfred Pro; 32Ω (w/ cryo-copper cable; hand-made driver by Herry Widjaya; Indonesia)​​2021​Cypherus Audio (CAX) V99 Monitor; ~32Ω (Modded Aiwa HP V99 shell w/ hand-made driver by Herry Widjaya; Indonesia)​


----------



## FranQL

Charlyro222 said:


> Sun Cooper is aviable, but not listed on any eShop, you have to mail them.
> Have different signatures for sure.



price aside, Sun Dice already sounds good enough to me to consider it one of the best prefabs I've ever heard.


----------



## Charlyro222

I think Zen Su is an outstanding earbud, tons of detail and very dynamic. 
 But my tastes are more with Zen Shinning and the incoming Asura Pure White. 
I will get Sun Cooper very soon.


----------



## leaky74 (Jul 10, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Curious if when you bought your VE Sun Dice did Lee by chance mention (offer) the upgraded god-tier VE Sun Copper edition to you? They haven't been available for years now but someone mentioned that he had a NOS pair kicking around still. Very nice earbuds nonetheless. I liked the Sun Dice very much. You have some happy times ahead of you.


No but I definitely would have been interested. Of the other VE models, is there one that offers comparable tuning / performance (maybe slightly more V), but has less demanding power requirements?


----------



## music4mhell

WoodyLuvr said:


> Ah, so you got one of the coveted Black Editions... nice! Lucky dog you! The only thing rarer is Henry's CAX Gold, only two pair were made or perhaps his White CampFred which but only a few pair were made.
> 
> Yeah, if I recall correctly it was *@Danneq* who had confirmed with Henry the total amount of CAX Black Editions that he had made. I don't even think he sold them all either.
> 
> ...


wow that's great..i will keep my cardas CAX till end of my life then


----------



## mochill

WoodyLuvr said:


> Thank you for the correction mate. For some reason I was under the impression that all the copper metal shells had been used. It indeed has a different signature and I very much liked it when I heard it a few years back. Even better than the VE Sun Dice and VE SU in my opinion. How much is the VE SUN COPPER these days?


$599


----------



## mt877 (Jul 10, 2022)

Spoiler: FiiO FF3 - Continuing from post # 61767 on page 4118



Work is super busy right now with several projects running at the same (over)time. Not much free time for visiting the forums lately.

Ok, here's a little bit of info. I got the stainless steel version. The buds have some good weight for buds, but they're comfortable in the ears. The cable is very similar to the FiiO EM5 cable. The one thing I don't like about the cable is that it has a memory, meaning when I took the FF3 out of the box the left bud cable had a loose 'S' bend in it near the bud from the packing. Maybe it will straighten out with time, but right now the 'S' bend portion sometimes touches the side of my face, which is annoying. I think I'll soak that part of the cable in some warm water to see if the rubberized cable jacket will reshape itself or allow me to manipulate it somewhat straight again.

The FF3 come with 3 different foams. Thick (not super thick) if you want more bass. Medium/thin for balanced sound and donut foams for that extra treble sparkle. I tried the thick first and the bass was excellent, but the treble was too muffled, rolled off for my taste. The medium/thin foams really struck the right balance for me, as I'm sure it will also work for others as well. Nice bass and sub-bass (if the music has that sub-bass kick) while mids and treble sound just right. Not forward or recessed. This is my impression after listening to them for just a couple of hours and switching tunes to see how they perform. I haven't had a chance to compare them to other buds I have.

I'll leave it at that for now until I get more time to intently listen to these new FF3 and compare to other buds I have. Over all I really like them, nice sound stage, not wide, but not stuck in your head either (like some IEMs). Very easy to listen to without fatigue. Would I recommend a blind buy? I would. For their midrange price they perform nicely and I think would fit in great with anybody's earbud arsenal. FiiO's new 'drum head' bass tech sounds pretty good to me with the FF3's. The upcoming FF5's might even be better? I guess we won't know until they come out.



FiiO FF3 comparisons:

FiiO FF3 comes with 3 different sets of foams. What FiiO refers to as "Bass foam eartips" (thick full foams), "Balanced" (thin full foams) and "Crispy treble" (donut foams). The balanced foams are working best for me. The cable is permanently attached at the buds and the plug end can be swapped between 3.5mm SE and 4.4mm balanced. The 4.4mm balanced plug is included. The FF3 come with 3 small pouches of different foams and a plastic water tight storage box.

I don't have a set of the FiiO EM3, so can't compare the FF3 to it. I've read that the EM3 got rave reviews and are an excellent low budget choice that punches above it's weight class. I'm not sure what they cost when they were first released, but now they can be had for around $20. That's still very reasonable for a set of buds that are reputed to have excellent sound quality. Maybe someone who has both EM3 and FF3 can do a comparison.

FiiO FF3 (balanced foams) vs FiiO EM5 (donut foams):

The FF3 are not as bass heavy as the EM5. As mentioned in the previous post the FF3 does have nice bass and sub-bass (if the music has that sub-bass kick) while mids and treble sound just right. Not forward or recessed, nor overly bright. While the EM5 by it's design is a basshead's dream earbud. The EM5 with full foams have excellent bass, but IMO it's too much for it's own good. Anyway, I use donut foams on the EM5 to tame the bass and let the mid-range and treble shine a bit. I found the EM5 with donut foams to only really sound good when matched with a neutral sound source, while the FF3 sounds great with either neutral or warm sounding sources.

FiiO FF3 (balanced foams) vs Yincrow RW-3000 (donut foams):

The FF3 while very nice sounding are no match for the RW-3000. The overall sound presentation of the RW-3000 is awesome. The interplay of bass, mid-range and treble of the RW-3000 are very good and create a certain soundstage and audio imaging that I really like. Of course there is one caveat. I found the RW-3000 like to be matched up with a warm sounding source. With a neutral source the RW-3000 high end can be a little fatiguing on the ears, though I think I'm getting used to it by now. As already mentioned the FF3 sounds great with either neutral or warm sources.

FiiO FF3 (balanced foams) vs RikuBuds Berserker 1 (donut foams):

First, gotta give some props to @RikudouGoku for coming up with the Berserker 1 buds. For those who have had the pleasure to hear them, you already know why they are in @WoodyLuvr's current top 3 buds lineup.

Well, here's the surprise. It was very hard to compare the FF3 to the Berserker 1  buds. The sound signature of both buds are very similar with small differences. Now considering that the FF3 had full (balanced sound) foams on and the Berserker 1 had donut foams on. The Berserker 1 buds are bass cannons with full foams on, but in a good way. For my own ears I had to use donut foams to tune them the way I like them to sound. Having said that, both FF3 and B1 buds have similar bass profile with the B1 just edging out the FF3. The bass in both buds do not muddy up the mids or treble. The mids and treble are very well balanced with the bass in both buds, with the B1 being a little brighter on the high end. I already mentioned how the FF3 play nice with either neutral or warm sources, well so does the Berserker 1.

So now you know what I think of the FiiO FF3 through these comparisons. Are they worth it to have in your earbud arsenal? Only you can determine that for yourself. As for myself, I'm glad I got them.

Instead of me posting pictures of the set I got, here's a link to some fine pictures of the FF3 shared by FiiO in the forums. My stainless steel ones look exactly the same as the FiiO provided pictures.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Spoiler: FiiO FF3 - Continuing from post # 61767 on page 4118
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great comparisons! Those look really nice, as does the cable. It looks pretty sturdy. I don't think I would worry about that one even though it is not detachable.


----------



## syazwaned

mt877 said:


> Spoiler: FiiO FF3 - Continuing from post # 61767 on page 4118
> 
> 
> 
> ...


how comfortable it is on your ears?


----------



## mt877 (Jul 11, 2022)

syazwaned said:


> how comfortable it is on your ears?


They are very comfortable. Housing size you put in ear with foam attached is 16.5mm. If you have smaller ears, might not be comfortable?

Just an FYI for those interested, FiiO AE store lowered the price to $78.99 until July 15.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004396885661.html


----------



## waynes world

WoodyLuvr said:


> Excellent mini-review. Buying from China is, has been, and will always be an adventure... just like a box of chocolates! I wish you had received the same little box as I. Oh well.
> 
> Indeed, it can not be stressed enough that these high impedance low sensitivity drivers require power... UNLIMITED POWER!!!
> 
> ...






samandhi said:


> So, I got the Yinman 600 2.0 today. I'll start with the packaging:
> 
> The box is not near as pretty as the one you got. It is raw wood, glued together. No stamps, or a finish on it. Really light and fragile pressboard. Just a sticker with Chinese writing saying "2.5 balanced". The contents weren't on a nice pillow like you got. They were simply placed in there. It looks like plenty of tips/donuts were included (of both black and white). The other major difference about the packaging (probably to make up for the crappy box) is the puck case they came in.
> 
> ...



Just curious: do you think the Qudelix 5K (specs here} could power the 600's sufficiently? I usually only listen to headphones at my desk (with monolith liquid spark amplifier), so it would be great if the 600's sounded good off of a mobile device such as the 5K.


----------



## samandhi

waynes world said:


> Just curious: do you think the Qudelix 5K (specs here} could power the 600's sufficiently? I usually only listen to headphones at my desk (with monolith liquid spark amplifier), so it would be great if the 600's sounded good off of a mobile device such as the 5K.


It will drive them, but not well. They will sound flat and lifeless most likely. The tube amp card I was using in my post was 2v from low voltage output, and 4 volt out of the higher voltage output, and it didn't sound very good out of either. It could have been because of it being tube, but I doubt it.

On the other hand, it may have such good synergy that it sounds great regardless. But your Monolith should have no problem driving them, just in case.


----------



## Sam L

samandhi said:


> It will drive them, but not well. They will sound flat and lifeless most likely. The tube amp card I was using in my post was 2v from low voltage output, and 4 volt out of the higher voltage output, and it didn't sound very good out of either. It could have been because of it being tube, but I doubt it.
> 
> On the other hand, it may have such good synergy that it sounds great regardless. But your Monolith should have no problem driving them, just in case.


wow. I had to google if the yinman 600's meant that they are 600ohm drivers.... and they are. that's alot of power needed to drive an earbud.


----------



## samandhi

Sam L said:


> wow. I had to google if the yinman 600's meant that they are 600ohm drivers.... and they are. that's alot of power needed to drive an earbud.


Yeah, they take a bit of power, but when driven properly, they are crazy good! They will drive fine with most mid-tier DAPs (somewhere around 600 mW to 1W).

And, I might have spoken too early in my earlier post to @waynes world. Doing the math for these, in order to reach 100dB with the given specs (600 Ohm resistance @ 95 sensitivity) you would actually only need 1.9Vrms. To reach 110dB you would need about 5.4Vrms though. So as you can see it DOES scale up pretty quickly. If you can live with listening to them at 60-80dB your 5K should drive them fine.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 12, 2022)

waynes world said:


> Just curious: do you think the Qudelix 5K (specs here} could power the 600's sufficiently? I usually only listen to headphones at my desk (with monolith liquid spark amplifier), so it would be great if the 600's sounded good off of a mobile device such as the 5K.





samandhi said:


> It will drive them, but not well. They will sound flat and lifeless most likely. The tube amp card I was using in my post was 2v from low voltage output, and 4 volt out of the higher voltage output, and it didn't sound very good out of either. It could have been because of it being tube, but I doubt it.
> 
> On the other hand, it may have such good synergy that it sounds great regardless. But your Monolith should have no problem driving them, just in case.





samandhi said:


> Yeah, they take a bit of power, but when driven properly, they are crazy good! They will drive fine with most mid-tier DAPs (somewhere around 600 mW to 1W).
> 
> And, I might have spoken too early in my earlier post to @waynes world. Doing the math for these, in order to reach 100dB with the given specs (600 Ohm resistance @ 95 sensitivity) you would actually only need 1.9Vrms. To reach 110dB you would need about 5.4Vrms though. So as you can see it DOES scale up pretty quickly. If you can live with listening to them at 60-80dB your 5K should drive them fine.


Concur with *@samandhi* that these earbuds scale!

I really do believe that *2022 Longyao-Yinman 2.0 600 LE; 600Ω* rated sensitivity of 95dB ±3dB/mW is quite conservative as I am finding them to be much harder to drive than even my Puresounds PS100-600S which were listed as 600Ω @ 93dB ±3dB/mW but were actually sub 93dB/mW in true sensitivity. So I am thinking that these new Yinman 600Ω earbuds are probably closer to 91(90-92)dB/mW in sensitivity rather than their specified 95dB/mW. Some food for thought insomuch that they will and do scale incredibly well when fed more power. These are most excellent drivers as I am unable to make them distort with power or reasonable volume increases... unless via exuberant EQ'ing of the lower frequencies which of course is cruel and unusual punishment for any earbuds.



Spoiler: 110db SPL Power Requirement if indeed 600Ω @ 93dB/mW would be ~4.4Vrms @ 31.62 mW:












Spoiler: 110db SPL Power Requirement if 600Ω @ 91dBmW instead would be ~6.9Vrms @79.43 mW:









In either scenario only 2Vrms would be required to reach 99dB SPL or greater which even with 30dB of dynamic headroom would generally cover most genres and recordings (all but the most dynamic tracks) at medium listening levels.

Now the above power requirement charts do not tell the whole story nor do they fully (accurately) depict a driver's true power requirements across all (at certain) frequencies and at different volume levels.

With that said, although my *2022 Longyao-Yinman 2.0 600 LE* are singing with 9 plus volts (Vrms) at high gain mode as supplied by my custom earbud tube amp they are still performing admirably well on the lower gain setting @ ~3-3.5Vrms with no anemic or lost bass or flat sounding response. As I had mentioned before I tried them with my Meizu HiFI Pro dongle "tricked" via an adapter cable to max output @ ~2Vrms with a thrust of ~9mW. They still sound great with plenty of volume to spare. Bass is less detailed and less impactful of course but definitely they still remain very musical and energetic... not flat or deflated sounding at all to me like some other 500Ω and 600Ω drivers can be with lower power. Chalk that up to quality drivers being used by Yinman. This of course may simply be a synergy event as *@samandhi* has so rightly pointed out and results may vary from source to source.

As I ordered the single-ended 3.5TRS version (as I listen at my desk on my tube amp with plenty of power-at-hand) I am unfortunately unable to test them via my stolen (the wife swiped it) FiiO BTR5's balanced output on high gain mode.

Your best bet is to ensure that you order the balanced version so as to take advantage of your Qudelix 5K's *4Vrms Balanced Mode* which I honestly believe would offer enough juice for them to perform very well... but again if you can feed them more power, do so!


----------



## waynes world

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur with *@samandhi* that these earbuds scale!
> 
> I really do believe that their rated sensitivity of 95dB ±3dB/mW is quite conservative as I am finding them to be much harder to drive than even my Puresounds PS100-600S which were listed as 600Ω @ 93dB ±3dB/mW but were actually sub 93 dB/mW in true sensitivity. So I am thinking that these new Yinman 600Ω earbuds are probably closer to 91(90-92)dB/mW in sensitivity rather than their specified 95dB/mW. Some food for thought insomuch that they will and do scale incredibly well when fed more power. These are most excellent drivers as I am unable to make them distort with power or reasonable volume increases... unless via exuberant EQ'ing of the lower frequencies which of course is cruel and unusual punishment for any earbuds.
> 
> ...



Thanks! Yes, balanced/4Vrms it would be for sure. Now for penny saving mode lol.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

waynes world said:


> Thanks! Yes, balanced/4Vrms it would be for sure. Now for penny saving mode lol.


Save away I think they are worth it! I cleaned up my post some for easier reading.


----------



## Black-Wolf

I've asked myself the same question (as i have ordered them) and after some thinking and some maths (but @WoodyLuvr did it un his posts):
You will need some high voltage but not so much current, so there are som solutions in mobile, but not so much:
-to have something correct, you can try with some of the most powerful dongles, like E1DA 9038D (fantastic) or Hidisz S9Pro...it should do the trick, more or less, but they will be limited in voltage.
-The E1DA Power Dac 2.1 in boost mode should be comoletely sufficient, with an insane power (for an USB powered DAC) of 600mw thanks to the very specific approach Ivan took to create it...but it drains so much current that some smartphones can't handle it.
-the Xduoo XD5 Plus: one full watt at 32 ohms, quite high voltage...clearly sufficient...but it's a Big beast, more "transportable" than "portable". 

There are other solutions but very expansive, like Ifi Audio...


----------



## samandhi (Jul 12, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Now the above power requirement charts do not tell the whole story nor do they fully (accurately) depict a driver's true power requirements across all (at certain) frequencies and at different volume levels.


Your whole post is very well stated! Thanks for sharing.

This is something that I forgot to mention but should have. I frequently have to keep this in mind when going with ortho DD (planars). I have the Tinhifi P1 planar IEMs (for instance), and while on paper they are pretty easy to drive (20 Ohms & 96dB), I can say with certainty that they seem actually harder to drive than these 600 ohm lil' devils... Sure, any smartphone CAN drive them, but I can say for sure that they sound like crap from one. Using the same amp card to drive these as the Yinmans (8.3 Vrms @ DR 126dB) results in near the same volume levels to get comfortable listening levels, and (what sounds to me) proper excitement of the driver.

Plus, manufacturers of their products don't necessarily lie about the specs, but they don't always divulge the worst parts of those specs. Like they might give you specs that are for an unloaded device, which make it seem as though it is very high indeed. Using the same P1 reference, what is not said when looking at the specs for these is the current requirements for them (an unwritten requirement for proper driving of ortho DD is current and to some extent, all head gear). Feed it the right voltage from any smart phone, and they will make sound, but give them current, and the driver will be properly excited.

Going back to the Amp12 card on my DX300, it is capable of over 2 amps of current (because of having a separate battery dedicated to the amp section). Without even having to know the math for this, I can tell you with my ears that these can not only get really loud, but sound much better like they are being properly driven, more so than on other (battery powered) systems I have tried them on.


Black-Wolf said:


> I've asked myself the same question (as i have ordered them) and after some thinking and some maths (but @WoodyLuvr did it un his posts):
> You will need some high voltage but not so much current, so there are som solutions in mobile, but not so much:
> -to have something correct, you can try with some of the most powerful dongles, like E1DA 9038D (fantastic) or Hidisz S9Pro...it should do the trick, more or less, but they will be limited in voltage.
> -The E1DA Power Dac 2.1 in boost mode should be comoletely sufficient, with an insane power (for an USB powered DAC) of 600mw thanks to the very specific approach Ivan took to create it...but it drains so much current that some smartphones can't handle it.
> ...


Yeah, mid-tier DAPs will push them nicely, but it is going to be more expensive than a simple inline dongle. I am finding that the iBasso DX160 is capable of pushing these nicely (@1.2W) and is very pocket friendly, but it is $400. As for dongles, it is going to be just a matter of experimenting IMO.


----------



## LongNguyenHorn

So after a while i end up with the Hiby r5 ii pairing with Moondrop Chaconne. I bought the Hiby Dap because of its transparency and body lift up. 
Now i'm looking for one more earbud with a lot of sub bass and bass. V shape kind to watching movies. So which one do you guys prefer the most. Shozy BK ( i already have ), Ve zen 2.0, Fiio FF3 ... Just tell me the name i will find the information. Can go up to around 200 - 300$. Thanks.


----------



## baskingshark

LongNguyenHorn said:


> So after a while i end up with the Hiby r5 ii pairing with Moondrop Chaconne. I bought the Hiby Dap because of its transparency and body lift up.
> Now i'm looking for one more earbud with a lot of sub bass and bass. V shape kind to watching movies. So which one do you guys prefer the most. Shozy BK ( i already have ), Ve zen 2.0, Fiio FF3 ... Just tell me the name i will find the information. Can go up to around 200 - 300$. Thanks.



Big subbass = SMABAT ST10S Black Gold


----------



## syazwaned

LongNguyenHorn said:


> So after a while i end up with the Hiby r5 ii pairing with Moondrop Chaconne. I bought the Hiby Dap because of its transparency and body lift up.
> Now i'm looking for one more earbud with a lot of sub bass and bass. V shape kind to watching movies. So which one do you guys prefer the most. Shozy BK ( i already have ), Ve zen 2.0, Fiio FF3 ... Just tell me the name i will find the information. Can go up to around 200 - 300$. Thanks.


Chaconne take eq very well. I pairs Chaconne with Qudelik 5k, and it can handle every preset EQ i throw at it.


----------



## LongNguyenHorn

baskingshark said:


> Big subbass = SMABAT ST10S Black Gold


Thank you. I will look for it.



syazwaned said:


> Chaconne take eq very well. I pairs Chaconne with Qudelik 5k, and it can handle every preset EQ i throw at it.


I can not listen to eq or even 3d x bass function from Ifi which is analog implement for adding bass.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 12, 2022)

LongNguyenHorn said:


> So after a while i end up with the Hiby r5 ii pairing with Moondrop Chaconne. I bought the Hiby Dap because of its transparency and body lift up.
> Now i'm looking for one more earbud with a lot of sub bass and bass. V shape kind to watching movies. So which one do you guys prefer the most. Shozy BK ( i already have ), Ve zen 2.0, Fiio FF3 ... Just tell me the name i will find the information. Can go up to around 200 - 300$. Thanks.


You seriously need to consider *RikuBuds Lancer 1 (150ΩBG)*. Sitting currently in my top three at the moment is the *2022 - RikuBuds Berserker 1 (32ΩTiComp 19-21 Red Dot)*. Hands down one of the best earbuds I have heard and/or owned; easily in my top twenty all-time I would say... perhaps maybe even top ten. It uses a DIY MX32 19-21 Red Dot Ti driver and is expertly tuned. Real bass canons. Riku's *2022 - RikuBuds Grand Rider 1 (130Ω Bery; Sweden DIY)* is also getting excellent reviews *here*... really great to see a known IEM fanatic giving a flathead earbud some much needed love.

For little as Euro 50 will get you an amazing earbud while supporting "one of our own". There are currently _ten (10) available models_ now to choose from with varying signatures for different tastes ranging from US$50 up to $100:

*RikuBuds* by *@RikudouGoku

2022 - RikuBuds Alter Archer 1; 64ΩWG (MX500 shell type)
2022 - RikuBuds Alter Rider 1; 32ΩBio (19-21 Black Dot; MX500 shell type)
2022 - RikuBuds Archer 1; 32ΩBG N52 (MX500 shell type)
2022 - RikuBuds Assassin 2; 32ΩFostex (Val39 custom-made shell)
2022 - RikuBuds Berserker 1; 32ΩTiComp (19-21 Red Dot; MX500 shell type)
2022 - RikuBuds Grand Archer 1; 68ΩGraphene (MX500 shell type)
2022 - RikuBuds Grand Rider 1; 130ΩBery (MX500 shell type)
2022 - RikuBuds Lancer 1; 150ΩBG (MX500 shell type)
2022 - RikuBuds Rider 1; 32ΩBG N52 (MX500 shell type)
2022 - RikuBuds Saber 1; 32ΩTiComp (19-21 Red Dot; MX500 shell type)*


----------



## samandhi

LongNguyenHorn said:


> So after a while i end up with the Hiby r5 ii pairing with Moondrop Chaconne. I bought the Hiby Dap because of its transparency and body lift up.
> Now i'm looking for one more earbud with a lot of sub bass and bass. V shape kind to watching movies. So which one do you guys prefer the most. Shozy BK ( i already have ), Ve zen 2.0, Fiio FF3 ... Just tell me the name i will find the information. Can go up to around 200 - 300$. Thanks.


Lots of excellent suggestions above. I have not heard @RikudouGoku's buds yet, so can't comment, but for me +1 on the ST10S Black and Gold. Or you could also do the M2s Pro with the Gold (150 ohm) driver in it. It is very similar to the ST10S, though I think the ST10S is closer to the V signature you are after (though I still wouldn't call them V signature overall, just closer than the M2s Pro). 

I would like to throw another suggestion out there that hasn't been said yet, and that is the Rose Technics Maria II. While they ARE pretty niche for music, they are absolutely fantastic with movies IMHO. They have some HUGE sub-bass when called for, staging is some of the widest I have heard from any head gear (including full sized open back headphones), and the imaging is also to die for. They are pretty salty in price, but if you are looking for something really great for movies in a bud, these would probably be my number one pick (of the ones I have and have heard, there may be much better that I don't know about).


----------



## Sam L (Jul 12, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Lots of excellent suggestions above. I have not heard @RikudouGoku's buds yet, so can't comment, but for me +1 on the ST10S Black and Gold. Or you could also do the M2s Pro with the Gold (150 ohm) driver in it. It is very similar to the ST10S, though I think the ST10S is closer to the V signature you are after (though I still wouldn't call them V signature overall, just closer than the M2s Pro).
> 
> I would like to throw another suggestion out there that hasn't been said yet, and that is the Rose Technics Maria II. While they ARE pretty niche for music, they are absolutely fantastic with movies IMHO. They have some HUGE sub-bass when called for, staging is some of the widest I have heard from any head gear (including full sized open back headphones), and the imaging is also to die for. They are pretty salty in price, but if you are looking for something really great for movies in a bud, these would probably be my number one pick (of the ones I have and have heard, there may be much better that I don't know about).


Yeah, the Maria II's are pretty unique -- the tuning is so aggressive (bass is unreal and there's some peakiness around 1.5k and 6k, I think. I still haven't gotten around to getting my measuring up and running). They are actually the only earbuds I have that I would consider having legitimate sub bass. and the staging is definitely wider than any of my headphones. (my "go to" headphones are dan clark aeon closed and the hifiman stealth xs).

**edit**
oh, and I should mention I have the berker 1's -- great earbuds with fantastic bass but no comparison to the Maria II's.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 13, 2022)

samandhi said:


> I would like to throw another suggestion out there that hasn't been said yet, and that is the Rose Technics Maria II. While they ARE pretty niche for music, they are absolutely fantastic with movies IMHO. They have some HUGE sub-bass when called for, staging is some of the widest I have heard from any head gear (including full sized open back headphones), and the imaging is also to die for. They are pretty salty in price, but if you are looking for something really great for movies in a bud, these would probably be my number one pick (of the ones I have and have heard, there may be much better that I don't know about).





Sam L said:


> Yeah, the Maria II's are pretty unique -- the tuning is so aggressive (bass is unreal and there's some peakiness around 1.5k and 6k, I think. I still haven't gotten around to getting my measuring up and running). They are actually the only earbuds I have that I would consider having legitimate sub bass. and the staging is definitely wider than any of my headphones. (my "go to" headphones are dan clark aeon closed and the hifiman stealth xs).


Concur!

Similar to the Moondrop Chaconne, Rose Technics Maria II are a specialty bud (a one or two trick pony) and cater to very particular music genres and very specific listening tastes. They are most definitely an acquired taste and only suitable for those who can stomach their:

bright nature (heavy treble spikes and high frequency extension) leaning hard to aggressive
ultra-detail retrieval bordering on super-critical (an analytical-clinical signature that does not play well with poor recordings)
sibilant/glassy-like sparkly treble (magical for some, but sheer hell for others)
It can not be stressed enough... Marias (Maria I and II) are completely unforgiving when it comes to poor recordings and/or critical prone music genres. Enough with negatives... their key features are superlative detail retrieval, stellar imaging, and wondrously wide soundstage. The only other earbud offering such wide and open staging would probably be the Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis.

*@ClieOS *describes the Rose Technics Maria II quite well:

"_As for sound - think of it with a sound signature between SimPhonio D2+ and D3 - bright and very well extended treble, somewhat warm on the mid range, good deep punching but moderate low-end with a super massive soundstage. Listening to it pretty much equal to listening a miniature open back on-ear rather than an earbud. because of how 'out-of-the-ear' it sounds, even wider than the original Maria and definitely the widest sounding earbud in the market._"​


Sam L said:


> **edit**
> oh, and I should mention I have the berker 1's -- great earbuds with fantastic bass but no comparison to the Maria II's.


We all hear differently. I personally find my Berserkers to have an overall stronger (more forward) bass response in comparison to the Maria II which indeed do have noteworthy bass depth (sub-bass extension) and resolution (bass detail) but also quite recessed bass as well.


----------



## Sam L (Jul 12, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> We all hear differently. I personally find my Berserkers to have an overall stronger (more forward) bass response in comparison to the Maria II which indeed do have noteworthy bass depth (sub-bass extension) and resolution (bass detail) but also are quite recessed bass as well.


sorry, i wasn't very explicit in what I meant by "no comparison". the berserker and maria ii's are completely different sounding earbuds, even in reference to their bass. I agree the berserkers are more forward in the 125hz-175hz area, and the maria extends deeply into sub bass territory, better than any earbud I've heard. While I'm being more detailed in this description, the maria ii sub bass is still no equal to a hard hitting iem, no comparison there.

Again, the berserker 1 is a fantastic earbud. If I had to choose one model, and only one, between the Maria and the Beserker, I'd choose the Berserker any day, every day. That said, my tgxear serratus x1 variant is currently my best sounding earbud.


----------



## Sam L

Sam L said:


> sorry, i wasn't very explicit in what I meant by "no comparison". the berserker and maria ii's are completely different sounding earbuds, even in reference to their bass. I agree the berserks are more forward in the 125hz-175hz area, the maria to extend deeply into sub bass territory, better than any earbud I've heard. While I'm being more detailed in this description, the maria ii sub bass is still no equal to a hard hitting iem, no comparison there.
> 
> Again, the berserker 1 is a fantastic earbud. If I had to choose one model, and only one, between the Maria and the Beserker, I'd choose the Berserker any day, every day. That said, my tgxear serratus x1 variant is currently my best sounding earbud.


to my ears. everyone hears differently, so no claim that the serratus is the best earbud out there.


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur!
> 
> Similar to the Moondrop Chaconne, Rose Technics Maria II are a specialty bud (a one or two trick pony) and cater to very particular music genres and very specific listening tastes. They are most definitely an acquired taste and only suitable for those who can stomach their:
> 
> ...


I would agree that the Maria II might seem a bit recessed in the bass department at times while listening to music, but I have found this to not be as true while watching a movie (to my ears). I was actually a bit disappointed with the bass on these for music (it has a DD JUST for the bass, and it is huge). For movies though, they are like a good discrete surround system. The bass doesn't interfere with anything else (poised to strike). But then you get that deep bomb explosion or something like that and you KNOW there was supposed to be something there. 

Anyhow, that is what I would use out of the ones I have. There is always something else better out there. 🤪


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Sam L said:


> Again, the berserker 1 is a fantastic earbud. If I had to choose one model, and only one, between the Maria and the Beserker, I'd choose the Berserker any day, every day. That said, my tgxear serratus x1 variant is currently my best sounding earbud.





Sam L said:


> to my ears. everyone hears differently, so no claim that the serratus is the best earbud out there.


Patiently awaiting my Tantalus to arrive... can't wait!


----------



## Sam L

WoodyLuvr said:


> Patiently awaiting my Tantalus to arrive... can't wait!


hmmm... I know ClieOS collection is legendary in size, but I'm beginning to wonder if yours is getting to that size as well?


----------



## samandhi

Sam L said:


> hmmm... I know ClieOS collection is legendary in size, but I'm beginning to wonder if yours is getting to that size as well?


IKR? Was thinking the same. 🤔🤑🤯


----------



## mochill

I as well have a huge earbud collection


----------



## Sam L

mochill said:


> I as well have a huge earbud collection


oops, of course! One of these days, I'll have to make a point to meeting some of you with 100+ earbuds, buy each of you dinner and talk earbuds!


----------



## mochill

Would definitely love to meet with fellow audiophile


----------



## samandhi

With the newest acquisition of the Yinmans, I won't be looking to get another new set for some ⌚. With all of you with that many sets of buds, I don't know how you keep track of them all?! 🥺


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 19, 2022)

Sam L said:


> hmmm... I know ClieOS collection is legendary in size, but I'm beginning to wonder if yours is getting to that size as well?





samandhi said:


> IKR? Was thinking the same. 🤔🤑🤯


I most humbly bow  to the Earbuds Godfather *@ClieOS* (boy do I really miss his activity here on this thread and find myself anxiously awaiting his updates on *Earbuds Paradise* although however infrequent they may be).

I must also point respectively to the other Earbuds Round-Up thread GOATs: * @HungryPanda @james444* *@Danneq @golov17 @vapman @Alex.Grimm @GREQ @mochill @BloodyPenguin @DBaldock9 *all of whom I pale in comparison to (please excuse any names I might have missed as the ole gray matter isn't what it used to be).


I am a practicing audiophile minimalist these days... what I do own currently is listed under my *profile* as linked down in my signature. I am trying to stay around four to six earbuds in my stable at any given time. Will see how well I can maintain this but have been doing pretty good for the last two years. Having a house full of sly sticky-fingered Siamese women with keen eyes helps tremendously in keeping my earbuds numbers low. Please do not be fooled by their cuteness... "Siamese women are quite resourceful and come well equipped with lightning quick fingers, an adept eye for quality, razor sharp teeth, and a frightening disposition to readily visit violence upon any who stand in their way" (many Bothans died to bring you this information).

Although, I have owned and/or listened to perhaps a thousand plus earbuds since their inception in the early 1980s, (I previously owned and/or heard many of the Golden Era buds from 1982 to 1987/8) I didn't seriously get back into using and collecting earbuds again until mid-2018!

The most earbuds I had at any one given point in time were the nearly 300 earbuds I was sitting on just before SEP/OCT 2020 when I began to gift, trade, and sell them all off along with much of the rest of my audiophile equipment collection in an effort to *minimalize* what I had collected over many decades. Funny to think that two years ago I was sitting on nearly three hundred (300) earbuds; sixty (60) plus IEMS; twenty (20) plus headphones; ten (10) pair of speakers; thirty-six (36) amps and dacs; twenty plus (20+) separate two-channel components; hundreds (and I mean literally hundreds!) of cables, adapters, & interconnects; and countless DIY tools and associated supplies (that I had also gifted away to younger DIYers as my eyes and hands were/are no longer cooperating with me).

I was also quite into IEMs there for a good period of time. I believe I have owned more than 150-160 IEMs (mostly universal) since the 1990s and right before I went 'minimal' in SEP/OCT 2020 I had amassed around sixty (60) IEMs which I have since sold and gifted away. My very first IEM was the venerable Etymotic ER4 which I procured sometime in 1991/2 shortly after they first released. I really liked Shure for a good number of years and I was rather fond of the JVC Woody universal IEM line. In particular JVC's HA-FX750 model. But most unfortunately IEMs and even CIEMSs started giving me treacherously horrific earaches and headaches forcing me to abandon the medium altogether and reintroducing me to flathead earbuds after a twenty some year hiatus. I was pleasantly surprised!

I was also really into full-sized over-the-ear headphones (mostly open-back but I did have a short foray into the closed-back world as well) way back during the Headwize days before we all came over with Jude to Head-Fi in JUNE of 2001. Now I only have one pair, my SENN HD650s packed safely away in their box.

Before that (early 2000s and earlier) I was a two-channel nut for decades which funny enough I do not miss at all.

That all said, I can hands down say that earbuds for me have been (are) the best!

Going minimalist hands down has been the best thing I ever did in the hobby... and that is over many decades! I am/was a minimalist in all other areas of my life but the audiophile bug was very hard to shake so I acquired, acquired, and acquired in a maddening pursuit which would nearly always bring me full circle back to where ever I had started from!


----------



## jeejack

WoodyLuvr said:


> You seriously need to consider *RikuBuds Lancer 1 (150ΩBG)*. Sitting currently in my top three at the moment is the *2022 - RikuBuds Berserker 1 (32ΩTiComp 19-21 Red Dot)*. Hands down one of the best earbuds I have heard and/or owned; easily in my top twenty all-time I would say... perhaps maybe even top ten. It uses a DIY MX32 19-21 Red Dot Ti driver and is expertly tuned. Real bass canons. Riku's *2022 - RikuBuds Grand Rider 1 (130Ω Bery; Sweden DIY)* is also getting excellent reviews *here*... really great to see a known IEM fanatic giving a flathead earbud some much needed love.
> 
> For little as Euro 50 will get you an amazing earbud while supporting "one of our own". There are currently _ten (10) available models_ now to choose from with varying signatures for different tastes ranging from US$50 up to $100:
> 
> ...


Saber 1 and Berserker 1 use the same driver but with different tuning?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 13, 2022)

jeejack said:


> Saber 1 and Berserker 1 use the same driver but with different tuning?


Yes, sir. The Saber 1 is the Berserker 1 with less bass. The following is a link to their tuning signature descriptions = _ten (10) available models_


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> am a practicing audiophile minimalist these days... what I do own currently is listed under *ƎAЯBUD STAᗺ⅃Ǝ* down in my signature. I am trying to stay around four to six earbuds in my stable at any given time. Will see how well I can maintain this but have been doing pretty good for the last two years. Having a house full of sly sticky-fingered Siamese women with keen eyes helps tremendously in keeping my earbuds numbers low. Please do not be fooled by their cuteness... "Siamese women are quite resourceful and come well equipped with lightning quick fingers, an adept eye for quality, razor sharp teeth, and a frightening disposition to readily visit violence upon any who stand in their way" (many Bothans died to bring you this information).


Priceless!


WoodyLuvr said:


> The most earbuds I had at any one given point in time were the nearly 300 earbuds I was sitting on just before SEP/OCT 2020 when I began to gift, trade, and sell them all off along with much of the rest of my audiophile equipment collection in an effort to *minimalize* what I had collected over many decades. Funny to think that two years ago I was sitting on nearly three hundred (300) earbuds; sixty (60) plus IEMS; twenty (20) plus headphones; ten (10) pair of speakers; thirty-six (36) amps and dacs; twenty plus (20+) separate two-channel components; hundreds (and I mean literally hundreds!) of cables, adapters, & interconnects; and countless DIY tools and associated supplies (that I had also gifted away to younger DIYers as my eyes and hands were/are no longer cooperating with me).


I have always had the mentality of the minimalist in this hobby, though in practice it IS difficult at best to maintain that thought. I never intended to collect even the amount that I have over the years. But I also know what I like when I have it and I rarely ever get rid of my stuff (or sell it off), except the occasional "white elephant" Christmas now and again (for instance). The biggest pleasure of this hobby for me is hearing the music that is pleasing to my ears, but another part that makes this hobby fun for me is the knowledge I accumulate along they journey, and of course the people that I can talk to about the journey. I ride motorcycles, and it is much the same. The destination is great, but the journey makes the destination that much better (hope that makes some semblance of sense?!). 

I have known about classic earbuds since the early days but have always discounted them as crappy sounding until a couple of years ago where someone on another board posted pictures of their TOTL DAP with some (discontinued) Sennheiser buds. This intrigued me and (short story is) I have been here ever since. 

I have always been an audiophile (as much as I could afford it), but I have always just focused on one sound system (and no headgear at all). Since I finally got all of that together (completed 7.1 system) I was not interested in looking further. It wasn't until I bought the Sennheiser RS140 back in 2006 (IIRC) that I decided that some head gear just needed looking in to. Nowadays, I still have my home system, but have focused more on the best portable gear that I can afford, and here we are today. 

Your minimalist approach still leaves my currently owned gear look a bit anemic (though I am totally satisfied with it).  I have in my collection:

9 pairs of earbuds
11 IEMs (not counting stuff like Skullcandy 20/20 that never sees use)
11 headphones
9 wireless (TWS, wireless, BT)
7 DAPs (not counting the older model iPods that I still have but haven't used in years)
4 sets of speakers
3 AV receivers
4 BT speakers
no idea how many cables and interconnects/adapters
Ok, I guess I have more stuff than I thought I did... LOL

Anyhow, I bow to all those that are crazy dedicated and purchase many many of these wonderful devices so that I might better be able to decide what I might want to jump in to. 


WoodyLuvr said:


> Going minimalist hands down has been the best thing I ever did in the hobby... and that is over many decades! I am/was a minimalist in all other areas of my life but the audiophile bug was very hard to shake so I acquired, acquired, and acquired in a maddening pursuit which would nearly always bring me full circle back to where ever I had started from!


Preaching to the choir my friend. Gambling and/or drug use has nothing on this hobby if you give in to your desire to constantly "collect" or "upgrade" IMHO!


----------



## baskingshark

samandhi said:


> Preaching to the choir my friend. Gambling and/or drug use has nothing on this hobby if you give in to your desire to constantly "collect" or "upgrade" IMHO!



There is no such thing as "endgame" in this hobby. But there is a sweet spot around the MidFI region for IEMs/earbuds, where price-to-performance ratio seems to hit the best returns so to speak.

I've learnt this the hard way, but collecting tons of cheap cheap budget pokemon sidegrades will add up to a TOTL model one day, and most will end up in a dark drawer somewhere, never to see the light of day again. These are not easy to be sold away where I live at. Budget gear is very useful to spring a few purchases to see what tunings/sound signatures suit you, but it behoofs one to upgrade up the line once you know what you want, and get out of the budget sidegrade purgatory.

TOTL stuff generally give good sound but at a huge price premium, like perhaps 10 - 30% improvement from MidFI, but at 10x more the price. And even TOTL gear have weaknesses too. So I do think MidFI is still the sweetspot and a compromise between the two.

Of course easier said than done, I think all of us need to see a shrink for GEAR ACQUISTION SYNDROME and UPGRADIITIS. The FOMO is strong!


----------



## yaps66

Sam L said:


> to my ears. everyone hears differently, so no claim that the serratus is the best earbud out there.


To my ears also, current favs are (in no particular order):
Saber 1; RW2000; tofino; ST10s (Black Gold)


----------



## cod6793

mt877 said:


> Spoiler: FiiO FF3 - Continuing from post # 61767 on page 4118
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for your impressions. Aside from tonal comparisons, what are other technical aspects of FF3? detailing, timbre, texture, extension in the treble, etc. Are worth a 100usd earbud?


----------



## waynes world (Jul 13, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Going minimalist hands down has been the best thing I ever did in the hobby... and that is over many decades! I am/was a minimalist in all other areas of my life but the audiophile bug was very hard to shake so I acquired, acquired, and acquired in a maddening pursuit which would nearly always bring me full circle back to where ever I had started from!



Yes, for me it's always full circle back to the Koss KSC75's lol (on parts express headband of course!)


----------



## samandhi

yaps66 said:


> To my ears also, current favs are (in no particular order):
> Saber 1; RW2000; tofino; ST10s (Black Gold)


Those are some pretty fine "favs" to have if you ask me...


----------



## Eduardiofilo

Hi, i have already built my first earbuds. I used the 150omh BG. ¿What other drivers would you recommend me? I don't care if they are high or low impedance drivers


----------



## waynes world

waynes world said:


> Yes, for me it's always full circle back to the Koss KSC75's lol (on parts express headband of course!)



Actually, let's go with Yincrow RW9's. Every time I circle back and listen to them again, they make me very happy!


----------



## yaps66

samandhi said:


> So, I got the Yinman 600 2.0 today. I'll start with the packaging:
> 
> The box is not near as pretty as the one you got. It is raw wood, glued together. No stamps, or a finish on it. Really light and fragile pressboard. Just a sticker with Chinese writing saying "2.5 balanced". The contents weren't on a nice pillow like you got. They were simply placed in there. It looks like plenty of tips/donuts were included (of both black and white). The other major difference about the packaging (probably to make up for the crappy box) is the puck case they came in.
> 
> ...


So mine have apparently arrived but sadly I am travelling till 23 July! Can’t wait to return to hear this badboy!


----------



## koniotaur (Jul 14, 2022)

A bit of information on TRN EMA as I received mine today. There seems to be unit variance to me. I bought two pairs. One came with angled connectors and earguides on cable and that one has much much more sub bass than the one without earhooks. I really like the one with sub bass. Perhaps it lacks definition in mids and treble but makes for a great chill pair aka is warm.

Edit: one more thing, it's easier for me to get good fit than with the Smabat ST10s Silver


----------



## LongNguyenHorn

WoodyLuvr said:


> You seriously need to consider *RikuBuds Lancer 1 (150ΩBG)*. Sitting currently in my top three at the moment is the *2022 - RikuBuds Berserker 1 (32ΩTiComp 19-21 Red Dot)*. Hands down one of the best earbuds I have heard and/or owned; easily in my top twenty all-time I would say... perhaps maybe even top ten. It uses a DIY MX32 19-21 Red Dot Ti driver and is expertly tuned. Real bass canons. Riku's *2022 - RikuBuds Grand Rider 1 (130Ω Bery; Sweden DIY)* is also getting excellent reviews *here*... really great to see a known IEM fanatic giving a flathead earbud some much needed love.
> 
> For little as Euro 50 will get you an amazing earbud while supporting "one of our own". There are currently _ten (10) available models_ now to choose from with varying signatures for different tastes ranging from US$50 up to $100:
> 
> ...



Hi, do you know how and where to buy the Berserker 1 ? Thanks


----------



## SiggyFraud

LongNguyenHorn said:


> Hi, do you know how and where to buy the Berserker 1 ? Thanks


I assume you have to contact @RikudouGoku directly.


----------



## yaps66

LongNguyenHorn said:


> Hi, do you know how and where to buy the Berserker 1 ? Thanks


Yes. Contact him directly.


----------



## Setmagic

Setmagic Deep RED 32ohm in classic MX500


----------



## LongNguyenHorn

SiggyFraud said:


> I assume you have to contact @RikudouGoku directly.





yaps66 said:


> Yes. Contact him directly.


Thank you.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

LongNguyenHorn said:


> Hi, do you know how and where to buy the Berserker 1 ? Thanks


Are the links to RikuBuds in my post not working/viewable?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Setmagic said:


> Setmagic Deep RED 32ohm in classic MX500


Well done! 32ΩTi driver? I'll add to the Flathead Timeline!


----------



## ttorbic

WoodyLuvr said:


> Well done! 32ΩTi driver? I'll add to the Flathead Timeline!


The one timeline to rule them all 💪


----------



## mochill

Setmagic said:


> Setmagic Deep RED 32ohm in classic MX500


How does it sound


----------



## jeejack

mochill said:


> How does it sound


TOTL


----------



## mochill

More information on sound 😜


----------



## jeejack

WoodyLuvr said:


> Well done! 32ΩTi driver? I'll add to the Flathead Timeline!


This are not TI drivers


----------



## FranQL (Jul 14, 2022)

mochill said:


> More information on sound 😜


Jajajajajjajajajjajajjajaja

it's a great sound, very clean and transparent, with deep bass, focused on high mids


----------



## mochill

Damn , I'm looking for audiophile basshead always 😀


----------



## jeejack (Jul 14, 2022)

FranQL said:


> Jajajajajjajajajjajajjajaja
> 
> it's a great sound, very clean and transparent, with deep bass, focused on high mids


Exactly!
*DIY Workroom* JJ 130 ohm Beryllium


----------



## Setmagic (Jul 14, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Well done! 32ΩTi driver? I'll add to the Flathead Timeline!


This is 32 ohm MYLAR foil (PET) driver without any coating.

Its a brand new tunning from DIY Workroom group. As @FranQL said it's very vivid and deep bass same time.


----------



## mochill

jeejack said:


> Exactly!
> JJ 130 ohm


This looks like it'll have more bass


----------



## jeejack

mochill said:


> This looks like it'll have more bass


Similar to @FranQL and @Setmagic  description. Another great tuning from DIY Workroom group


----------



## FranQL

mochill said:


> This looks like it'll have more bass



not necessarily, it is a better driver (IMO) with a different and better sound, the bass is of better quality, more complete and impressive, and there is also a good sub-bass (for a bud), depending on the tuning you can get different signatures, I repeat, a great driver that is worth what it costs


----------



## Setmagic (Jul 14, 2022)

FranQL said:


> not necessarily, it is a better driver (IMO) with a different and better sound, the bass is of better quality, more complete and impressive, and there is also a good sub-bass (for a bud), depending on the tuning you can get different signatures, I repeat, a great driver that is worth what it costs


@mochill I can compare for You 32ohms in current tunning and 130Ohm Berry made by @FranQL

@FranQL is higher fidelity but 32 is more fun.
Deep RED is a little bit v-shaped with smooth treble and deep bass extension.
130Berry by FranQL have more resolution but also balanced sound with faster bass response but not that loud than competitor.
DeepRED is made for fun. 130 is refined and more sophisticated.
Soundstage is wider on DeepRED and also deeper than 130Berry who is made for separation.
32 are also few times cheaper than 130 berry


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 14, 2022)

Setmagic said:


> This is 32 ohm MYLAR foil (PET) driver without any coating.
> 
> Its a brand new tunning from DIY Workroom group. As @FranQL said it's very vivid and deep bass same time.





Setmagic said:


> @mochill I can compare for You 32ohms in current tunning and 130Ohm Berry made by @FranQL
> 
> @FranQL is higher fidelity but 32 is more fun.
> Deep RED is a little bit v-shaped with smooth treble and deep bass extension.
> ...


How should I list it on the timeline?

*Setmagic Deep RED; 32ΩPET (Mylar Foil; Classic MX500; tuning by DIY Workroom Group)*

or

*DIY Workroom Group Setmagic Deep RED; 32ΩPET (Mylar Foil; Classic MX500)*


----------



## jeejack

WoodyLuvr said:


> *DIY Workroom Group Setmagic Deep RED; 32ΩPET (Mylar Foil; Classic MX500)*


👍


----------



## Setmagic

jeejack said:


> 👍


Boss has spoken


----------



## Setmagic (Jul 14, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> How should I list it on the timeline?
> 
> *Setmagic Deep RED; 32ΩPET (Mylar Foil; Classic MX500; tuning by DIY Workroom Group)*
> 
> ...


Maybe
DIY Workroom Setmagic Deep RED 32(ohm) PET (Mylar Foil, Classic MX500)
"Group" is not an official term 
We are audio DIY enthustiast with many talents including 3D modeling and CNC printing, circuts electronic design and driver tunning.
We have also doctor on room


----------



## jeejack

Setmagic said:


> Maybe
> DIY Workroom Setmagic Deep RED 32(ohm) PET (Mylar Foil, Classic MX500)


Perfect hermano ! 👍


----------



## FranQL (Jul 14, 2022)

Setmagic said:


> Maybe
> DIY Workroom Setmagic Deep RED 32(ohm) PET (Mylar Foil, Classic MX500)
> "Group" is not an official term
> We are audio DIY enthustiast with many talents including 3D modeling and CNC printing, circuts electronic design and driver tunning.
> We have also doctor on room



It is easier to understand for anyone who has been here for a while if we simply summarize it in that we are people that @furyossa put in contact, after more than a year friends. In my case, he taught me practically everything I know about DIY, added to everything that the rest contributes, it's a luxury!


----------



## jeejack (Jul 14, 2022)

FranQL said:


> It is easier to understand for anyone who has been here for a while if we simply summarize it in that we are people that @furyossa put in contact, after more than a year friends. In my case, he taught me practically everything I know about DIY, added to everything that the rest contributes, it's a luxury!


In all the cases hermano ! @furyossa 🥃


----------



## koniotaur (Jul 15, 2022)

Little update on TRN EMA - one with straight cable came with one earbud faulty - ie not working at all.

Edit: really weird, today morning it started working again.


----------



## samandhi

jeejack said:


> TOTL


For your ears and enjoyment level, that is the only word that needs be spoken.


----------



## mt877

cod6793 said:


> Thanks for your impressions. Aside from tonal comparisons, what are other technical aspects of FF3? detailing, timbre, texture, extension in the treble, etc. Are worth a 100usd earbud?


I'm really enjoying the FF3. Nice bass with good sub-bass rumble, as long as the music you're listening to has that kind of bass impact. Overall sonic balance is excellent. Bass that doesn't step all over (muddy) the mid-range or treble. Nice clean treble extension, not so bright that it is fatiguing on longer listening sessions. These buds perform well with either neutral or warm amps / DAPs and perform well with any music genre.

You still have over 30 hours (at time of this post) before the Fiio AE store sale ends. Get them for $78.99 and free shipping.


----------



## jeejack

samandhi said:


> For your ears and enjoyment level, that is the only word that needs be spoken.


This "little guy" is great. Really crazy value


----------



## Ronion

I know if @jeejack says it, it’s a fact.  He’s heard them all and tuned them a dozen times until he’s achieved perfection.


----------



## jeejack

Ronion said:


> I know if @jeejack says it, it’s a fact.  He’s heard them all and tuned them a dozen times until he’s achieved perfection.


Thanks doc! ☺️. Your 32 bio is awesome. Is on my top 3 ( 32 ohms ). Great work.


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> It is easier to understand for anyone who has been here for a while if we simply summarize it in that we are people that @furyossa put in contact, after more than a year friends. In my case, he taught me practically everything I know about DIY, added to everything that the rest contributes, it's a luxury!





jeejack said:


> In all the cases hermano ! @furyossa 🥃


Thanks hermanos for the kind words


----------



## leaky74

Thought I’d try this setup with the sun dice today


----------



## samandhi

leaky74 said:


> Thought I’d try this setup with the sun dice today


Nice looking setup to be sure!


----------



## samandhi

So, I am finding that the RW3000 are not too far behind the Yinman (for my ears). For the most part, they need a bit of bass boost across the board. This DOES help with the presence region boost. I might need to dial that one down just a tad. At least I can now listen to all but the most ear-splitting stuff (Judas Priest, Alice In Chains, etc...). These definitely have the clarity over the Yinman. 

But, overall the warmth, added bass, non boosted tuning in the presence region, and the treble air make these sound almost equal to the clarity of the RW3000, but without hurting the ears when listening to the above mentioned groups and with a much fuller and richer sound. I can only say "smooth". Now that I have been listening to them for a time, I am finding that I agree with @WoodyLuvr (good ears btw) about missing the bass slam. It reaches really deep, but it is just missing that ONE ingredient. 

I still find the Yinman to be the best (to my ears) over my others, but upon lengthy listening, and comparisons, it is not near as clear cut as I thought it was upon first listen. All of my buds have a quality that puts them over the others, so it boils down to which one is better overall, even if it fails in one or more areas that the others do better. That still equates to the Yinman for me. 

I also have to add that upon more listening time, the SO driver in the M2s Pro is REALLY sounding great to my ears. All the things I have read say that the 150Ti sounds best in these, but I am not quite as sure, though they are REALLY close. I am still awaiting my 32 ohm fiber, so I reserve judgment on the Smabat drivers until I can complete the experience. 

Anyhow, enough of my ranting on, just thought I would share my latest thoughts.


----------



## Ronion

One thing a hate about the SMABAT drivers is that they are all very good!  I tend to like the one I’m listening to more than the others—no matter which one that is.  I sometimes wonder if my love of the 150ti is simply because I no longer have a working pair and I want it.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> One thing a hate about the SMABAT drivers is that they are all very good!  I tend to like the one I’m listening to more than the others—no matter which one that is.  I sometimes wonder if my love of the 150ti is simply because I no longer have a working pair and I want it.


A very good way to put it.


----------



## samandhi (Jul 15, 2022)

Been working on a good EQ for the RW3000 while taking a break from the Yinman burn-in, and I have come up with one that makes them sound exquisite (to me). It is in Neutron Music Player app on android. It uses a combination of PEQ and EQ (one of the reasons I love this app so much):



Spoiler: (P)EQ for Yincrow RW3000











```
Pre Gain = -6.4dB
Band = 32Hz          Q = 1.2     Gain = +9dB (low shelf)
Band = 150Hz        Q = 1.2     Gain = +5dB (low shelf)
Band = 1000kHz    BW = 1     Gain = +2dB
Band = 4000kHz    Q = 4        Gain = -2dB
Band = 8000kHz    Q = 1.2     Gain = +3dB (high shelf)
Band = 10000kHz  Q = 1.20   Gain = +5dB (high shelf)
```

Edit: It DOES narrow the staging just a bit, but it is a good trade-off to not have my ears bleed when trying to crank a good song...


----------



## XP_98

Could someone achieve an EQ for RW2000 that is as satisfying as the  description of the one above ?


----------



## samandhi

XP_98 said:


> Could someone achieve an EQ for RW2000 that is as satisfying as the  description of the one above ?


I also have those. I will give it a shot.. It will probably have the same -2dB wide band subtraction that is on the RW3000 because they are very similarly tuned in the presence region (meaning boosted). More so than on the RW3000, the RW2000 rely on that boost for clarity, and if you take that away, they actually sound recessed in the treble region (to my ears) a bit. The RW3000 has much more treble linearity and just more of it also.


----------



## samandhi (Jul 16, 2022)

XP_98 said:


> Could someone achieve an EQ for RW2000 that is as satisfying as the  description of the one above ?


Give this a try and let me know what you think?!



Spoiler: (P)EQ for Yincrow RW2000










```
Pre Gain = -4.2dB
Band = 63Hz          Q = 1.2     Gain = +5dB (low shelf)
Band = 73Hz          BW = 1     Gain = +4dB
Band = 250kHz      BW = 1     Gain = +2dB
Band = 500kHz      BW = 1     Gain = +3dB
Band = 1000kHz    BW = 1     Gain = +2dB
Band = 4000kHz    BW = 3     Gain = +5dB
Band = 8000kHz    Q = 2.2     Gain = +3dB (high shelf)
Band = 10000kHz  Q = 1.2     Gain = +5dB (high shelf)
```

Edit: Apologies to those purists that think EQ is sacrilege, but I think a good driver is a good driver and it might just need a bit of a nudge to make it right.. Yincrow has some really good drivers in their buds IMHO.


----------



## Setmagic (Jul 17, 2022)

DIY Workroom* Setmagic Cappuccino Gold
*
300 ohm in custom profiled classic MX500, MMCX balanced 2,5mm powered by ES100mk2 in double power voltage 6,4V.

I would like to keep mmcx connectors raw as possible to bring more gold accent on shells. Shells are shiny like porcelain cups.
8 core cable transparent-coffe cooper and gold plated OCC.

Sound is balanced and have nice warmth and depth that's why it's perfect for large coffe listening Jazz.

Special thanks @FranQL and CestMoi.


----------



## Cat Music

mt877 said:


> Spoiler: FiiO FF3 - Continuing from post # 61767 on page 4118
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What are the differences between the EM5 and the RW-3000 in sound quality?


----------



## mt877

Cat Music said:


> What are the differences between the EM5 and the RW-3000 in sound quality?


Here's my comparison post: FiiO EM5 vs Yincrow RW-3000

Also browse the few pages after my post because there were one or two replies which confirmed my impressions. These are on the higher end of cost for buds, so I can understand wanting to get impressions before taking the "leap off the cliff" so to speak. Hope that helps.


----------



## Cat Music

mt877 said:


> *FiiO EM5 vs Yincrow RW-3000*
> 
> Sound source: Mac Mini USB C > miniDSP HA-DSP (with DSP filtering off)
> 
> ...


love your review, thanks


----------



## Braekfast

Been a while since I checked in here. About a year ago I got the LBBS and the Yincrow X6. The LBBS is a good little bud, sounds good to me both with and without EQ. However, it pretty quickly got relegated to the bud drawer because I cannot for the life of me get a good fit with it. I think it's the bell shape + maybe the size that just won't play right with my ears, especially on the left side it's constantly slipping out. 

The X6 on the other hand has been an absolute banger of a purchase. I've been using it pretty much daily this past year and I like everything about it. It fits just right and I find it to have a very pleasant sound, very comfortable to listen to for long periods and it manages to handle every genre I throw it at least competently. Unfortunately, I seem to have damaged it when I wore it while sleeping this week 😥 

So I'm looking to order a replacement. I could just order another pair of X6's, but I was wondering if there were any buds with similar sound? Maybe something with removable cables? I'd definitely be willing to spend a bit more this time around, since I now know what kind of sound I like. I see NiceHK has a couple of new models out and are running coupons.


----------



## qua2k (Jul 16, 2022)

Good mail day today  QLabs Magnus Fath with some Trig Rain color foamies... think I have almost all of the colors now.

Initial impressions on the Magnus, really like this new vjc cable.. feel and bendability is nice, similar to the blur 266r. Magnus itself is very warm, warmest bud I have. Will give it a few days for burn, see where it's at.


----------



## ttorbic

Braekfast said:


> Been a while since I checked in here. About a year ago I got the LBBS and the Yincrow X6. The LBBS is a good little bud, sounds good to me both with and without EQ. However, it pretty quickly got relegated to the bud drawer because I cannot for the life of me get a good fit with it. I think it's the bell shape + maybe the size that just won't play right with my ears, especially on the left side it's constantly slipping out.
> 
> The X6 on the other hand has been an absolute banger of a purchase. I've been using it pretty much daily this past year and I like everything about it. It fits just right and I find it to have a very pleasant sound, very comfortable to listen to for long periods and it manages to handle every genre I throw it at least competently. Unfortunately, I seem to have damaged it when I wore it while sleeping this week 😥
> 
> So I'm looking to order a replacement. I could just order another pair of X6's, but I was wondering if there were any buds with similar sound? Maybe something with removable cables? I'd definitely be willing to spend a bit more this time around, since I now know what kind of sound I like. I see NiceHK has a couple of new models out and are running coupons.


I'd highly recommend you check out models from DIYers - best bang for your buck. E.g. Rikubuds, Tgxear, Newbsound, Valphonics.


----------



## jeejack

Setmagic said:


> DIY Workroom* Setmagic Coffe Gold
> *
> 300 ohm in custom profiled classic MX500, MMCX balanced 2,5mm powered by ES100mk2 in double power voltage 6,4V.
> 
> ...


@rprodrigues aka CestMoi 🥃


----------



## sfrsfr (Jul 17, 2022)

Braekfast said:


> Been a while since I checked in here. About a year ago I got the LBBS and the Yincrow X6. The LBBS is a good little bud, sounds good to me both with and without EQ. However, it pretty quickly got relegated to the bud drawer because I cannot for the life of me get a good fit with it. I think it's the bell shape + maybe the size that just won't play right with my ears, especially on the left side it's constantly slipping out.
> 
> The X6 on the other hand has been an absolute banger of a purchase. I've been using it pretty much daily this past year and I like everything about it. It fits just right and I find it to have a very pleasant sound, very comfortable to listen to for long periods and it manages to handle every genre I throw it at least competently. Unfortunately, I seem to have damaged it when I wore it while sleeping this week 😥
> 
> So I'm looking to order a replacement. I could just order another pair of X6's, but I was wondering if there were any buds with similar sound? Maybe something with removable cables? I'd definitely be willing to spend a bit more this time around, since I now know what kind of sound I like. I see NiceHK has a couple of new models out and are running coupons.


I have similar issue with LBBS - it is the lack of stem that makes the small, light shell unstable in the ear.
Direct upgrade to X6/Vido would be RY4S+ which has mmcx, so you can connect a cable of your choice. The best sounding cheap earbud is Ksearphone K64, it has flatter signature than X6, but it is excellent.


----------



## lafeuill

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Longyao-Yinman龙谣音曼
> 2.0 600 Limited Edition; 600Ω*
> 
> ​My new earbuds arrived! Very pleased with their performance thus far. Although warm-sounding their resolution and timbre is crazy good. And boy do they scale with power! Their rated sensitivity of 95dB ±3dB/mW is quite conservative as I am finding them to be much harder to drive than even my Puresounds PS100-600S (600Ω @ 93dB ±3dB/mW but definitely had felt they were actually sub 93 dB/mW in sensitivity). So I am thinking that these Yinmans are probably closer to 90-91dB/mW in sensitivity rather than 95dB/mW.
> ...


Bought, thanks. @samandhi is also to blame, he mentioned them in the DX320 thread. 

Will use them at work with a powerful old Aune Burr-Brown dac/amp.

Should be more convenient than my inears for frequent put-ons-and-offs !


----------



## samandhi

lafeuill said:


> Bought, thanks. @samandhi is also to blame, he mentioned them in the DX320 thread.
> 
> Will use them at work with a powerful old Aune Burr-Brown dac/amp.
> 
> Should be more convenient than my inears for frequent put-ons-and-offs !


I, for one would like to hear your impressions of them?! Did yours come in the box like @WoodyLuvr's or did they come with the raw box (like mine)? Did yours come with a carry case?

If you like them then I will share the blame, but if you don't then I don't know what you are talking about, and it is all WoodyLuvr's fault....   

Congratz on your new buds!


----------



## lafeuill

samandhi said:


> I, for one would like to hear your impressions of them?! Did yours come in the box like @WoodyLuvr's or did they come with the raw box (like mine)? Did yours come with a carry case?
> 
> If you like them then I will share the blame, but if you don't then I don't know what you are talking about, and it is all WoodyLuvr's fault....
> 
> Congratz on your new buds!


I'll receive them on August 1st if all goes well. Will report back!


----------



## Braekfast

ttorbic said:


> I'd highly recommend you check out models from DIYers - best bang for your buck. E.g. Rikubuds, Tgxear, Newbsound, Valphonics.


Thanks, I'll have a look around what they're offering. Though I have to say, I'm hesitant to order anything from the US. Shipping is bad enough, but the extra VAT (not so bad) + customs/administrative fees (bad) tend to not make it worth it. One of my packages from the US is also the only one so far to completely disappear without a trace in transit, but that's probably just some personal bad luck. 


sfrsfr said:


> I have similar issue with LBBS - it is the lack of stem that makes the small, light shell unstable in the ear.
> Direct upgrade to X6/Vido would be RY4S+ which has mmcx, so you can connect a cable of your choice. The best sounding cheap earbud is Ksearphone K64, it has flatter signature than X6, but it is excellent.



Yeah, the lack of stem might be it. I also think the LBBS might be smaller than the mx500 shape overall, though I could be mistaken. 

Thanks for reminding me about the RY4S+ and for pointing out the K64. I've also been eyeing some more expensive options, since I'm willing to go up to say 100 euro this time around. The Smabat M2s Pro seem attractive, and I seem to remember they got reviews here about a year ago. Though that might have changed due to newer models entering the market? I've also seen the Nicehkc B70 and EB2S (purely because they're plastered on their homepage), though a quick glance over the previous posts in this thread give me the impression that they're 'just okay, nothing special'. 

Also, dang, prices have gone up a bunch since last time I checked aliexpress. The LBBS is going for around 65 euro, when a year ago I got mine for 37-ish.


----------



## mt877

Braekfast said:


> Thanks, I'll have a look around what they're offering. Though I have to say, I'm hesitant to order anything from the US. Shipping is bad enough, but the extra VAT (not so bad) + customs/administrative fees (bad) tend to not make it worth it. One of my packages from the US is also the only one so far to completely disappear without a trace in transit, but that's probably just some personal bad luck.


If you're concerned about shipping from the US, then reach out to @RikudouGoku (RikuBuds), he's in Sweden. Sorry, don't know where the other DIY sellers would be shipping from.


----------



## samandhi

Braekfast said:


> The Smabat M2s Pro seem attractive, and I seem to remember they got reviews here about a year ago. Though that might have changed due to newer models entering the market? I've also seen the Nicehkc B70 and EB2S (purely because they're plastered on their homepage), though a quick glance over the previous posts in this thread give me the impression that they're 'just okay, nothing special'.


Yes, the M2s Pro are some fantastic buds (especially if you get some of the extra drivers for it). Also, the EB2S are actually really good too. They are very similar to the M2s Pro stock driver IMHO. They are at least worth their cost. Just my take.


----------



## mt877 (Jul 17, 2022)

Braekfast said:


> Been a while since I checked in here. About a year ago I got the LBBS and the Yincrow X6. The LBBS is a good little bud, sounds good to me both with and without EQ. However, it pretty quickly got relegated to the bud drawer because I cannot for the life of me get a good fit with it. I think it's the bell shape + maybe the size that just won't play right with my ears, especially on the left side it's constantly slipping out.


I usually wear the LBBS over the ear fashion like many IEM. The bell shape bud without stem is an ideal candidate for wearing that way. Give it a try, I think you'll like it. Since you like the X6 and you already have the LBBS, have you tried the Yincrow X6 True Upgrade PEQ by @RikudouGoku? You might be surprised.


----------



## Ronion

Braekfast said:


> Thanks, I'll have a look around what they're offering. Though I have to say, I'm hesitant to order anything from the US. Shipping is bad enough, but the extra VAT (not so bad) + customs/administrative fees (bad) tend to not make it worth it. One of my packages from the US is also the only one so far to completely disappear without a trace in transit, but that's probably just some personal bad luck.
> 
> 
> Yeah, the lack of stem might be it. I also think the LBBS might be smaller than the mx500 shape overall, though I could be mistaken.
> ...


LBBs for more than $35!  It sounds okay, but not that great, and the lack of stem makes placement challenging.  Might be okay if you have tiny fingers….  $65 is crazy unless you have no other options.  The M2s pro should be around that same price and it seems to be in a different league as far as resolution and bass response is concerned.  Its fit is a bit wonky too for me, but only in my right ear.  YMMV.  M2s pro/LBBs < MX500<PK<Lite shells for me.  MX500 is the division line for “usable in any situation” for me.  I use buds when I’m on the go.  When I’m around the house I don’t mind using a set of cans or buds.  The newer version of the M2s pro might really be where the smart money is spent.  Another interesting option is the ff3 from FiiO.


----------



## GREQ (Jul 18, 2022)

Trying out a few 'new' vintages today.
Starting with the *Sony MDR-E212*

I don't think they would impress anyone around here, but it's still nice to appreciate how comptent the sound used to be, even from entry level Sony buds.
Very smooth sound, and surprisingly competent resolution.

Form factor is a bit old fashioned. 
Doesn't sit perfectly, so the sound is affected.


----------



## GREQ (Jul 18, 2022)

Next up, *Sony MDR-E557*.

These surprised me. I read only mediocre things about these.
I would put these easily on par with the *Kubes*.

Quite similar tuning and they both have a similarly linear midrange.
Weird form factor, but it works well with my ear shape. I like them.
(using thick foam with these)


----------



## GREQ (Jul 18, 2022)

I didn't think I'd ever get to try one of these.

*Sony MDR-E868*

First of all... that translucent blue plastic case!
I do enjoy these little details.

I thought these were rather excellent.
Not as much bass slam as I'm used to from Sabia V6, Kube, some DIY buds and even BK2, but the linearity, treble quality and detail are great.
I guess these are much closer to 'reference' sound than I've heard from a bud before.

Only when something better comes along do you more clearly hear the problems in the buds you owned before.
The E868 highlighted some midrange problems in the BK2, which now I can't unhear

These are the best buds I've ever heard, but man, have I heard too few.
(using ultra-thin foams on these)

• Something I wasn't expecting!! The stems are flexible rubber!! I was a little freaked out at first


----------



## weexisttocease

I'm thinking in trying earbuds since it was my first experience with audio gear but that was ages ago. Maybe in the early 90s with some Sony and Sanyo earbuds.

I've been doing some research and a few caught my attention.

Yincrow RW-3000
Toneking TY2 Pro
Yinman 600
VE Asura 3.0

Do you have any experience with these? What earbuds would you recommend?

Cheers


----------



## samandhi

weexisttocease said:


> I'm thinking in trying earbuds since it was my first experience with audio gear but that was ages ago. Maybe in the early 90s with some Sony and Sanyo earbuds.
> 
> I've been doing some research and a few caught my attention.
> 
> ...


I have only heard 2 of the 4 from that list, and while I CAN give my rec based on my likes, you might get better recs based on answering the following:


WoodyLuvr said:


> *'THE CHECKLIST' FOR FLATHEAD EARBUD RECOMMENDATION REQUESTS*
> For those looking for a flathead-earbud recommendation from the *Earbuds Round-Up* thread gang, the following data is extremely helpful:
> 
> *budget* _(what are you willing/looking to spend? e.g. price range)_
> ...


----------



## Plancu

Hi everyone,

I've been having some bad luck over the last few purchased earbuds, so I am humbly asking for a small piece of your great wisdom.  
Below is probably the essence of what makes me an audio-loving being:

*budget:*
5-30eur for chi-fi, maybe double for something returnable). I normally like to start cheap and move my way up.

*source:*
Fiio X1 + Walnut F2 as amp or Zishan Z3

*preferred connection* 
3.5

*listening level & session length *
moderate to high; typically 30-60mins

*listening environment *
home desktop, park, typically quiet

*preferred music genre *
mostly anything: fast with great bass track (like Infected Mushroom) but I also vocals and acoustic guitars

*preferred shell and foam-cushion type*
anything but the iPhone shape

*preferred sound signature i *
good subbass is a must; I do love subbass but I do not consider myself a bass head
darker is better than bright; I have low tolerance for sibilance
good balance between forgiving and revealing

*preferred sound signature ii*
My reference headphones are the Superlux 668B. I love how they're fast and detailled and accurate. I don't like the bass rollout and their sometimes unforgiving nature.

*any special need and/or consideration*
ideally detachable cable

I had a poor experience with what I think are the Yinkrow X6, purchased from CKLewis
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005..._list.0.0.21ef5c5fPOBsOa&gatewayAdapt=glo2deu
The headphones are nice overall but they have minuscule bass. The seller did not provide any reason as to why they are this way or offer any suggestion for improvement.

Thank you very much. 
I hope that a good pair of earbuds will start traveling in my direction as a consequence of your great advice.


----------



## GREQ

Plancu said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I've been having some bad luck over the last few purchased earbuds, so I am humbly asking for a small piece of your great wisdom.
> Below is probably the essence of what makes me an audio-loving being:
> ...


Did you put on some foams?
Or was is bassless with foam?


----------



## Braekfast

mt877 said:


> If you're concerned about shipping from the US, then reach out to @RikudouGoku (RikuBuds), he's in Sweden. Sorry, don't know where the other DIY sellers would be shipping from.


Oh, I see, that's very fortunate. I'm going to look at a chi-fi first for now, but I go the DIY route later/instead I'll check them out. 


samandhi said:


> Yes, the M2s Pro are some fantastic buds (especially if you get some of the extra drivers for it). Also, the EB2S are actually really good too. They are very similar to the M2s Pro stock driver IMHO. They are at least worth their cost. Just my take.


I had kind of written off the EB2S purely because of the anime waifu boxart, but it's good to hear that it's actually good. Would you say either the M2s Pro and/or the EB2S are somewhat similar to the X6 and LBBS? 


mt877 said:


> I usually wear the LBBS over the ear fashion like many IEM. The bell shape bud without stem is an ideal candidate for wearing that way. Give it a try, I think you'll like it. Since you like the X6 and you already have the LBBS, have you tried the Yincrow X6 True Upgrade PEQ by @RikudouGoku? You might be surprised.


I did try the PEQ preset by RikudouGoku, yes. Had some trouble getting it from PEACE into wavelet on my phone at the start, but I figured it out in the end. I concur that the preset brings the LBBS from good to great, if only I could get it to fit right. I don't usually wear my cables over ear because I wear glasses, but even with my glasses off I just can't get the fit right in my left ear (both over-ear and 'normal'). It's fine so long as I don't move, but any kind of head movement will make it shift/fall out sooner rather than later. 

I think I might just have a wonky left ear to be honest. I've noticed that most buds fit better on the right than the left, but while larger buds just require a sporadic adjustement, the LBBS is constantly moving which becomes irritating real fast. 


Ronion said:


> LBBs for more than $35!  It sounds okay, but not that great, and the lack of stem makes placement challenging.  Might be okay if you have tiny fingers….  $65 is crazy unless you have no other options.  The M2s pro should be around that same price and it seems to be in a different league as far as resolution and bass response is concerned.  Its fit is a bit wonky too for me, but only in my right ear.  YMMV.  M2s pro/LBBs < MX500<PK<Lite shells for me.  MX500 is the division line for “usable in any situation” for me.  I use buds when I’m on the go.  When I’m around the house I don’t mind using a set of cans or buds.  The newer version of the M2s pro might really be where the smart money is spent.  Another interesting option is the ff3 from FiiO.


Would this be the newer version? 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001392526385.html
If I'm understanding the coupon I've got right, I could get it for about 18-ish euro, which seems like a steal.


----------



## ShaneyMac

Plancu said:


> I had a poor experience with what I think are the Yinkrow X6, purchased from CKLewis
> https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005..._list.0.0.21ef5c5fPOBsOa&gatewayAdapt=glo2deu
> The headphones are nice overall but they have minuscule bass. The seller did not provide any reason as to why they are this way or offer any suggestion for improvement.



Earbuds from this link above are not Yincrow X6 at all.
You can get real Yincrow X6 here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32809743166.html


----------



## Ronion

The X6 should have okay bass for a bud, low resolution and a bit dark sounding d/t their lack of pinna gain, but not irritating to listen too.  I’d go with the Vido if you want to go that route.  Same driver and tuning, just 1/3 of the price.  In a month you’ll want to upgrade anyway.


----------



## waynes world

GREQ said:


> Trying out a few 'new' vintages today.
> Starting with the *Sony MDR-E212*
> 
> I don't think they would impress anyone around here, but it's still nice to appreciate how comptent the sound used to be, even from entry level Sony buds.
> ...





GREQ said:


> Next up, *Sony MDR-E557*.
> 
> These surprised me. I read only mediocre things about these.
> I would put these easily on par with the *Kubes*.
> ...





GREQ said:


> I didn't think I'd ever get to try one of these.
> 
> *Sony MDR-E868*
> 
> ...



You lucky so and so! They actually do look new! Thanks for the impressions of those vintage beauties (nice pics too). Love the Kubes and Sabia V6's as well


----------



## GREQ

waynes world said:


> You lucky so and so! They actually do look new! Thanks for the impressions of those vintage beauties (nice pics too). Love the Kubes and Sabia V6's as well


Very lucky indeed.
I think that might be my only high stat upon character creation.


----------



## gordonli (Jul 30, 2022)

Got the Smabat M2s Pro (stock driver) recently and have been listening for the past few days.

I like this earbud a lot, especially the soundstage, which is unique among the devices I own. Very wide, which can sound like behind my head in some recordings. Maybe could even say its deep, but rather than extending forward, it begins intimately and wraps around and behind. Something I can't get with stereo speakers in front of me, though it's not better than that, just different. Does anyone else have this impression?

Edit: I came back to listen again and the wraparound difference to other buds is not as far as I had thought. Hooray for recency bias!



Spoiler: With ivipQ cable & Hiby FC3 dongle












Spoiler: EQ I'm using atm with my unit, stock driver, medium density full foams, worn over ears & diagonally down



This is not to full neutrality just a quick something to get in the ballpark.

```
Preamp: -4.4 dB
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 3200 Hz Gain -8 dB Q 1.3
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 50 Hz Gain -4.5 dB Q 1.5
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 2000 Hz Gain -7 dB Q 2
Filter 4: ON LSC 1.41 dB Fc 1000 Hz Gain -5 dB
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 1400 Hz Gain 2 dB Q 1.5
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 90 Hz Gain -1.5 dB Q 1
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 25 Hz Gain 11 dB Q 1.5
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 80 Hz Gain -8.3 dB Q 1
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 8000 Hz Gain -1.5 dB Q 1
```


----------



## GTAm

Hi guys,
Any particular reason why are these so cheap - assuming they are EBX21?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003538996727.html


----------



## BCool

My guess would be stock clearance due to either being discontinued or really low demand. Legit seller though so probably nothing wrong with the units themselves.


----------



## GTAm

Has anyone had a chance to compared them against RX2000?


----------



## yaps66

GTAm said:


> Hi guys,
> Any particular reason why are these so cheap - assuming they are EBX21?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003538996727.html


Yes. Confirm that I received this and it was the EBX21.  I bought these together with the RW2000. The EBX21 are good but my preference is the RW2000. I find them more musical and the bass on the RW2000 is more to my liking.  The RW2000 is my current goto.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

waynes world said:


> You lucky so and so! They actually do look new! Thanks for the impressions of those vintage beauties (nice pics too). Love the Kubes and Sabia V6's as well





GREQ said:


> Very lucky indeed.
> I think that might be my only high stat upon character creation.


Wow! I had figured those were aged stock photos! *@GREQ* you are one lucky dog to get in such fine condition. Thank you for sharing those pics. They bring back fond memories of the 1980s when I had those! Enjoy your treasures.


----------



## Plancu

GREQ said:


> Did you put on some foams?
> Or was is bassless with foam?



Both. It came with donut-shaped foams which don't do much in terms of bass.
Thank you for your reply.


----------



## Plancu

ShaneyMac said:


> Earbuds from this link above are not Yincrow X6 at all.
> You can get real Yincrow X6 here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32809743166.html


Yes, I suspect the same, despite the famous seller who seems to be appreciated on this forum.
Thank you for the link. I'll give it a try.


----------



## samandhi

gordonli said:


> Got the Smabat M2s Pro (stock driver) recently and have been listening for the past few days.
> 
> I like this earbud a lot, especially the soundstage, which is unique among the devices I own. Very wide, which can sound like behind my head in some recordings. Maybe could even say its deep, but rather than extending forward, it begins intimately and wraps around and behind. Something I can't get with stereo speakers in front of me, though it's not better than that, just different. Does anyone else have this impression?
> 
> ...


Very nice! Glad you like them. I like them as well.

As a matter of fact I got that feeling as well. It IS definitely unique. IMO that feeling becomes lesser with different drivers in it, though they sound a bit better to my ears. Don't let that discourage you though, because like @Ronion has said, all the drivers sound great in this shell. 

I think that I might be an outlier here, because I actually think the Super One driver (100 ohms fiber membrane) sounds best in these shells, though my listening data is still incomplete until I receive my 32 ohm fiber drivers.


----------



## Plancu

Ronion said:


> The X6 should have okay bass for a bud, low resolution and a bit dark sounding d/t their lack of pinna gain, but not irritating to listen too.  I’d go with the Vido if you want to go that route.  Same driver and tuning, just 1/3 of the price.  In a month you’ll want to upgrade anyway.



How would you describe the subbass of the X6 ? Does it (audibly) reach 35Hz ? Or is there a significant roll out ?
I found this link for Vido:
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/3283...2101e9d416582580498801970e965c!65075825439!sh

Is this what you meant ? Or do you have a better link ?

Thank you very much


----------



## Scuba Devils

Trying out some VE buds and the Megatron as part of the EU tour. Sun Dice my favourite, such a beautiful smooth presentation but with nice detail and clarity - wonderful timbre too... I suspect I'll buy one at some point! Asura 3.0 very nice also, a touch brighter.


----------



## Plancu

Ronion said:


> The X6 should have okay bass for a bud, low resolution and a bit dark sounding d/t their lack of pinna gain, but not irritating to listen too.  I’d go with the Vido if you want to go that route.  Same driver and tuning, just 1/3 of the price.  In a month you’ll want to upgrade anyway.



How would you describe the subbass of the X6 ? Does it (audibly) reach 35Hz ? Or is there a significant roll ?
I found this link for Vido:
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/3283...2101e9d416582580498801970e965c!65075825439!sh

Is this what you meant ? Or do you have a better suggestion in terms of seller ?


----------



## Plancu

sfrsfr said:


> I have similar issue with LBBS - it is the lack of stem that makes the small, light shell unstable in the ear.
> Direct upgrade to X6/Vido would be RY4S+ which has mmcx, so you can connect a cable of your choice. The best sounding cheap earbud is Ksearphone K64, it has flatter signature than X6, but it is excellent.



Could you please share the links for Ksearphone K64 and RY4S+ ? There are multiple versions on aliexpress and, if left alone, I have a tendency to order the wrong one 

Thank you very much


----------



## Ronion

Braekfast said:


> Would this be the newer version?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001392526385.html
> If I'm understanding the coupon I've got right, I could get it for about 18-ish euro, which seems like a steal.


This is the one I’m thinking of: 
https://www.smabat.cn/smabat/products/47407891.html


----------



## Ronion

Plancu said:


> How would you describe the subbass of the X6 ? Does it (audibly) reach 35Hz ? Or is there a significant roll out ?
> I found this link for Vido:
> https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32834600024.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_allProduct.8148356.2.4ab87da7crJcVU&pdp_npi=2@dis!EUR!€ 6,06!€ 4,84!!!!!@2101e9d416582580498801970e965c!65075825439!sh
> 
> ...


I know I’ve graphed the X6 (same as Vido) and it definitely does not go down to 35Hz in my ear mold measuring rig.  I believe it was more like 90Hz, maybe an 80Hz f3 with regular medium density foams socks on.  The link is to Vidos, but I know you could find them for half that price a few months ago.  Not sure if you are looking at an expensive store or just inflation.

Hope that helps.  I’d show you the graphs but that would require to fire up the computer.


----------



## Ronion (Jul 19, 2022)

There’s been some talks of late about wearing earbuds without foams and lack of bass.  I thought I should post a graph I made about the differences in bass and pinna gain when applying foam around your buds: 



Changing foam density will change the degree of differences as well as extension on both ends.  A 5dB change simultaneously on both ends is fairly profound.  Especially that low Q change in the low end.  Absolutely changes the character of your buds.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> There’s been some talks of late about wearing earbuds without foams and lack of bass.  I thought I should post a graph I made about the differences in bass and pinna gain when applying foam around your buds:
> 
> Changing foam density will change the degree of differences as well as extension on both ends.  A 5dB change simultaneously on both ends is fairly profound.  Especially that low Q change in the low end.  Absolutely changes the character of your buds.


So, I assume that the larger quantity of bass on your graph is the w/foam reading? Is this with Hegi or something similar, or with stock foams?

That is more of a boost that I thought I heard with and without. That is fantastic!


----------



## Ronion (Jul 19, 2022)

They are just stock foams.  HeiGi tend to change the shape in a similar manor but they reduce treble even further as well as deep bass.  I’m not sure if that’s something unique to my rig and the way the thicker, less compressible, higher density foam sits in it, or of it’s some other unique acoustic impedance problem d/t the foam’s density.  There are definitely drivers that give you deeper bass with less acoustic impedance, where others get deeper with more impedance.  Every driver I’ve tried with HeiGi have the same reaction in My rig—less treble, less bass, but ai haven’t tested them all.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> They are just stock foams.  HeiGi tend to change the shape in a similar manor but they reduce treble even further as well as deep bass.  I’m not sure if that’s something unique to my rig and the way the thicker, less compressible, higher density foam sits in it, or of it’s some other unique acoustic impedance problem d/t the foam’s density.  There are definitely drivers that give you deeper bass with less acoustic impedance, where others get deeper with more impedance.  Every driver I’ve tried with HeiGi have the same reaction in My rig—less treble, less bass, but ai haven’t tested them all.


That is very interesting. I had no idea the effect could be so much. What do donuts (foam, and even silicone) do? I would assume it would increase bass, but not touch the treble????


----------



## Headcasey MD (Jul 19, 2022)

Has anyone heard the new Toneking TO 300s?  On sale on Ali.  Described as for 'symphony concert'.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> That is very interesting. I had no idea the effect could be so much. What do donuts (foam, and even silicone) do? I would assume it would increase bass, but not touch the treble????


Unfortunately donuts don’t work so well in my rig.  It has no skin oils, and just halfway rips them off so I can’t get a good measurement.  I have tried…  I also tried the silicone on the ST20 pro and it actually made no measurable difference though it was more stable and repeatable. 


Headcasey MD said:


> Has anyone heard the new Toneking TO 300s?  On sale on Ali.  Described as for 'symphony concert'.


No, but I think the look the part!  Hopefully someone out there can give up the scoop.


----------



## SBranson (Jul 20, 2022)

New here and looks like I have a lot of reading to do.  Checking in to comment on the TGXEar models I have.  I hadn’t had earbuds since the old Apple ones and had really thought iems had supplanted them until a few months ago at a small meet @tgx78 asked me what I thought of one of his creations and I was very surprised how good they sounded.  As he refined his buds I bought the Tio Lake, then Serratus and most recently the Tantalus.
The Tio Lake we’re a nice efficient all-rounder but moving to the Serratus was a similar tuning but refined in every way.  I have a nice Burson amp that gives them tons of power as they really scale in quality from the Cayin RU6 dongle I had. 
Just last week I got the Tantalus after having a prototype for a couple months and the production model is just excellent.  It’s got a warmish tuning that excels at timbre.  Vocals are supreme with great realism with a sparkle of treble detail that lends great imaging cues and a precise intimate stage.

To me the Serratus and Tantalus are a great one-two punch, complementing each other.  The Serratus has leaner mids with a grander stage that is very clean sounding which I choose for busier music.  For smaller ensembles or solo instruments or vocal centric music I tend to reach for the Tantalus. 

Overall I’m super impressed with these earbuds..

**.edit.  I should add that I was surprised how extended the bass is, particularly on the Serratus.  Coming from iems I thought that not having a seal, like with ear tips, I didn’t expect the clean and extended bass that I was hearing.


----------



## silverszi

So I've read through the very start and end of the thread,
and I want to know what people's favourite earbuds nowadays are and their availability.
I've bought a pair of VE Monk Plus and am hoping that they're atleast indicative of good because my ears are very picky with fit and sound.


----------



## lafeuill

silverszi said:


> *So I've read through the very start and end of the thread,*
> and I want to know what people's favourite earbuds nowadays are and their availability.
> I've bought a pair of VE Monk Plus and am hoping that they're atleast indicative of good because my ears are very picky with fit and sound.


Wow, that's quite a feat!


----------



## Ronion

silverszi said:


> So I've read through the very start and end of the thread,
> and I want to know what people's favourite earbuds nowadays are and their availability.
> I've bought a pair of VE Monk Plus and am hoping that they're atleast indicative of good because my ears are very picky with fit and sound.


If you are a difficult fit, I’d personally look into a PK or ‘Lite’ shell.  I really only know the DIY PK and as far as I know the best available is from Blur: the PK32.


----------



## GREQ

Thought it might be fun to share this photo inside the *JVC HA-F105 *and hopefully some of the 'spiral duct' venting system.

I didn't remove the foam that sits behind the driver vents because I don't want to destroy it now that it's old - so I can't show where the vents are or where they go.

But you can see how that may or may not relate to the rear vent at the bottom of the cup (visible on the Right side)... 
It seems like the sound must go first through the foam, then presumably through the 'spiral duct' then out of the single vent.

(the orange 'bits' are glue, not earwax  )


----------



## silverszi

lafeuill said:


> Wow, that's quite a feat!


I meant the first and last pages, about 20 pages in each direction, don't remember anything i read except some models.


----------



## lafeuill

silverszi said:


> I meant the first and last pages, about 20 pages in each direction, don't remember anything i read except some models.


Well, that would have been superhuman

I'm somewhat reassured


----------



## FranQL

silverszi said:


> I meant the first and last pages, about 20 pages in each direction, don't remember anything i read except some models.


that's not a feat


----------



## silverszi

lafeuill said:


> Well, that would have been superhuman
> 
> I'm somewhat reassured


more like superNEET


----------



## silverszi

Ronion said:


> If you are a difficult fit, I’d personally look into a PK or ‘Lite’ shell.  I really only know the DIY PK and as far as I know the best available is from Blur: the PK32.


I'll see, if the monk plus doesn't fit,
when it arrives.


----------



## samandhi

Over months and months, I have a little over half if this thread.


----------



## lafeuill

samandhi said:


> Over months and months, I have a little over half if this thread.


After reading the last hundred pages of the DX320 thread, I nearly lost my sight and sanity


----------



## assassin10000

samandhi said:


> That is very interesting. I had no idea the effect could be so much. What do donuts (foam, and even silicone) do? I would assume it would increase bass, but not touch the treble????



Depends on the seal.

But generally no foams have little to no bass and tilts the signature way brighter.

Donuts keep the bass and keep a slightly bright tilt (1-2db).

Full foams have bass and may slightly tone down mids & highs (1-2db), dependant on thickness.


----------



## samandhi

lafeuill said:


> After reading the last hundred pages of the DX320 thread, I nearly lost my sight and sanity


Trust me, it has to be done in batches. Lol


----------



## Plancu

Ronion said:


> I know I’ve graphed the X6 (same as Vido) and it definitely does not go down to 35Hz in my ear mold measuring rig.  I believe it was more like 90Hz, maybe an 80Hz f3 with regular medium density foams socks on.  The link is to Vidos, but I know you could find them for half that price a few months ago.  Not sure if you are looking at an expensive store or just inflation.
> 
> Hope that helps.  I’d show you the graphs but that would require to fire up the computer.


Thank you very much for the graph above. A 5db bass boost is quite impressive

But to be honest, I find the graph you posted well ... scary. To me at least, bass and subbass is a crucial part of sound reproduction. Even classical music has instruments that need (and shine at) the bottom end of the spectrum. Listening to music without bass is like watching a movie in 8K but in black and white. 

And most of the earbuds I've listened to tend to bass shy. *Are my expectations too high ?* I have listened early-2000 to a pair consumer-grade earbuds from Panasonic or Sony or JVC that really impressed me in terms of bass (hip-hop sounded pretty good) but that was the exception.



Ronion said:


> I know I’ve graphed the X6 (same as Vido) and it definitely does not go down to 35Hz in my ear mold measuring rig.  I believe it was more like 90Hz, maybe an 80Hz f3 with regular medium density foams socks on.  The link is to Vidos, but I know you could find them for half that price a few months ago.  Not sure if you are looking at an expensive store or just inflation.
> 
> Hope that helps.  I’d show you the graphs but that would require to fire up the computer.



Would you say the Yincrow X6/Vido are similar to the Y3 Donkey graph above ?
The version I've bought had audibly the same bass rollout.
I made my purchasing decision based on the graph here, which to me looks pretty good in terms of bass.


----------



## silverszi

silverszi said:


> So I've read through the very start and end of the thread,
> and I want to know what people's favourite earbuds nowadays are and their availability.
> I've bought a pair of VE Monk Plus and am hoping that they're atleast indicative of good because my ears are very picky with fit and sound.


So anyway, what are the current best earbuds that are actually available to buy.


----------



## samandhi

silverszi said:


> So anyway, what are the current best earbuds that are actually available to buy.


That sort of depends on who you talk to, because there are a ton of them out there, and it also depends on one's preference. But IMO you can't go wrong with either:
Yinman 600 2.0 (600 ohm) if you have the power to drive them
Yincrow RW2000
Yincrwo RW3000
Smabat M2s Pro (either with stock driver or with 1 of 4 others they sell for it)
Smabat ST10S
Moondrop Chaconne

Those are my favs, but also those are all ones that I own, so I can't comment on others TBH. There is also something to be said for a well tuned and designed DIY set. Quite a few people on here do that sort of thing.


----------



## samandhi

Plancu said:


> Thank you very much for the graph above. A 5db bass boost is quite impressive
> 
> But to be honest, I find the graph you posted well ... scary. To me at least, bass and subbass is a crucial part of sound reproduction. Even classical music has instruments that need (and shine at) the bottom end of the spectrum. Listening to music without bass is like watching a movie in 8K but in black and white.
> 
> ...


If you are coming from IEMs or headphones, the bass from an earbud isn't really comparable (some come close though). There are a few that have really large amounts of bass for an earbud though. Again, they will never have the kind of bass you would get from an IEM though. That isn't to say that they aren't accurate in their bass replication, it is just that most of us that came from IEMs are actually used to boosted bass and don't really realize it.

If you listen to a neutral set for a while, then go back and listen to something you thought normal afterwards, they might seem pretty darn bassy all of a sudden. It is all in what we get used to.


----------



## waynes world

samandhi said:


> If you listen to a neutral set for a while, then go back and listen to something you thought normal afterwards, they might seem pretty darn bassy all of a sudden. It is all in what we get used to.



Yes, darn bassy _and_ tinnitus inducing! (well, for me at least)


----------



## silverszi

samandhi said:


> That sort of depends on who you talk to, because there are a ton of them out there, and it also depends on one's preference. But IMO you can't go wrong with either:
> Yinman 600 2.0 (600 ohm) if you have the power to drive them
> Yincrow RW2000
> Yincrwo RW3000
> ...


Thanks
I'll look into the smabats
because if i'm going to spend money on something you bet I will search for product information for 10s of hours and then end up eqing it anyway.


----------



## samandhi

silverszi said:


> Thanks
> I'll look into the smabats
> because if i'm going to spend money on something you bet I will search for product information for 10s of hours and then end up eqing it anyway.


Your welcome!

LOL I hear that one... Depending on where you live it can be difficult to find much information about some of these buds (outside of here, and the manufacturer's "opinions"). Most of those that I have I bought blind based on the opinions of those on here, and from some reviews I managed to translate and (sort of) understand on the net. 

Also to update that list a bit, the Smabat ST10S I have is the Black and Gold version (150 Ohms). There are two versions; silver, and black & gold. That isn't to say that the silver ones (40 Ohms) are bad, I just don't know as I don't have those.


----------



## silverszi

samandhi said:


> Your welcome!
> 
> LOL I hear that one... Depending on where you live it can be difficult to find much information about some of these buds (outside of here, and the manufacturer's "opinions"). Most of those that I have I bought blind based on the opinions of those on here, and from some reviews I managed to translate and (sort of) understand on the net.
> 
> Also to update that list a bit, the Smabat ST10S I have is the Black and Gold version (150 Ohms). There are two versions; silver, and black & gold. That isn't to say that the silver ones (40 Ohms) are bad, I just don't know as I don't have those.


The M2s is about half the price of the ST10S right now,
and penon sells an M2 non s so, more research already.


----------



## samandhi

silverszi said:


> The M2s is about half the price of the ST10S right now,
> and penon sells an M2 non s so, more research already.


IIRC, the M2 are also modular, but you have to do some soldering to change the drivers, where the M2s Pro has a connector to do a simple change (if that is something important to you). 

Also, if you keep your eyes on it, the M2s Pro and the ST10S both fluctuate in price (quite a bit). I got my ST10S B&G for about $80 when they were on sale (they went back up like 2 days after I ordered mine).


----------



## silverszi

samandhi said:


> IIRC, the M2 are also modular, but you have to do some soldering to change the drivers, where the M2s Pro has a connector to do a simple change (if that is something important to you).
> 
> Also, if you keep your eyes on it, the M2s Pro and the ST10S both fluctuate in price (quite a bit). I got my ST10S B&G for about $80 when they were on sale (they went back up like 2 days after I ordered mine).


Where did you order yours from? AE I assume because that's where everyone gets everything now.


----------



## samandhi

silverszi said:


> Where did you order yours from? AE I assume because that's where everyone gets everything now.


Yep, though I hate the wait, it is the best place for us yanks...

Edit: Actually I think I ordered the M2s Pro straight from Smabat site.


----------



## silverszi

samandhi said:


> Yep, though I hate the wait, it is the best place for us yanks...
> 
> Edit: Actually I think I ordered the M2s Pro straight from Smabat site.


Smabat doesn't list them on their site.


----------



## samandhi

silverszi said:


> Smabat doesn't list them on their site.


It looks like you can only get the M2s Pro from third party at this point, but the ST10S is still listed on their AE store site (though I wouldn't pay $180 for them).


----------



## silverszi

samandhi said:


> It looks like you can only get the M2s Pro from third party at this point, but the ST10S is still listed on their AE store site (though I wouldn't pay $180 for them).


I hope they won't go out of stock by the time i decide if i want to buy them
I'm going to call it a day and search for more earbuds


----------



## Ronion

Plancu said:


> Thank you very much for the graph above. A 5db bass boost is quite impressive
> 
> But to be honest, I find the graph you posted well ... scary. To me at least, bass and subbass is a crucial part of sound reproduction. Even classical music has instruments that need (and shine at) the bottom end of the spectrum. Listening to music without bass is like watching a movie in 8K but in black and white.
> 
> ...


The Donkey is one of the worst performing drivers as far as bass is concerned (still sounds great and I use it for Classical music all the time) and the Vido definitely goes deeper.  It goes as deep or even a little deeper than a Sennheiser HD650 which is a highly recommended and lauded headphone.   Other buds definitely go deeper like this one I built recently…..  SMABAT builds buds with bass…. As far as super cheap buds go, I’m not sure there are any better than the Vido unless you know how to roll your own.  Otherwise you’ve got to pay to play (bass).


----------



## Ronion

For some reason I can’t upload other photos on the last post, but you can definitely get bass if you build.


----------



## Ronion

the one in orange has the nearest to IEM bass that I’ve heard in a bud.  Still strong at 40Hz and shaming the venerable Sennheiser.  I believe FiiO was claiming that their latest bud is also capable of bass like this.  Bass is out there.  You just can’t expect IEM bass.


----------



## samandhi

silverszi said:


> I hope they won't go out of stock by the time i decide if i want to buy them
> I'm going to call it a day and search for more earbuds


Good luck with your search. I hope you find what you are looking for (sonically)?! 

Oh I am sure they won't. And I am not even sure they have officially been discontinued anyhow, they just don't sell them from their site. They may be just relying on their distributers/dealers to sell them for now. 

Besides, even if they do discontinue them, I am sure you will be able to get some for a good long while yet (but don't wait too long). I just received my brand new Focal Elegia only today. They have been discontinued since 2020 (as a for instance). Another for instance, I bought some DUNU DK2001 about a year after they were discontinued also...


----------



## mochill

What happened to smabat M4, it's supposed to be delivered no later the July 30th which is like 10 days away


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> the one in orange has the nearest to IEM bass that I’ve heard in a bud.  Still strong at 40Hz and shaming the venerable Sennheiser.  I believe FiiO was claiming that their latest bud is also capable of bass like this.  Bass is out there.  You just can’t expect IEM bass.


WOW! I'm actually a bit surprised. 

On the other hand, if I EQ up the bass on the Maria II (for instance) they can definitely handle quite a bit, enough to ALMOST be considered bass-head territory.. LOL Of course then they sound off, but I wanted to test to see if the driver could actually handle it with little to no distortion.


----------



## samandhi

mochill said:


> What happened to smabat M4, it's supposed to be delivered no later the July 30th which is like 10 days away


Crickets...


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> WOW! I'm actually a bit surprised.
> 
> On the other hand, if I EQ up the bass on the Maria II (for instance) they can definitely handle quite a bit, enough to ALMOST be considered bass-head territory.. LOL Of course then they sound off, but I wanted to test to see if the driver could actually handle it with little to no distortion.


That one has that Wobble, wobble, but the drivers are NOS Japanese and they break easily.  They have great SQ all the way around, but they are definitely fragile and several times they’ve died on me.  We still haven’t really bettered those old drivers.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> That one has that Wobble, wobble, but the drivers are NOS Japanese and they break easily.  They have great SQ all the way around, but they are definitely fragile and several times they’ve died on me.  We still haven’t really bettered those old drivers.


Very interesting indeed! Maybe that is why they are in a metal shell?!


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Very interesting indeed! Maybe that is why they are in a metal shell?!


They’re in a cheap plastic shell from Chitty’s on AE.  I just wish I could find new drivers that sound as good as these.  Their glue is brittle though and if DC hits them, they’re dead.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> They’re in a cheap plastic shell from Chitty’s on AE.  I just wish I could find new drivers that sound as good as these.  Their glue is brittle though and if DC hits them, they’re dead.


I guess the search continues?!


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> I guess the search continues?!


Endlessly LOL


----------



## DBaldock9

samandhi said:


> Your welcome!
> 
> LOL I hear that one... Depending on where you live it can be difficult to find much information about some of these buds (outside of here, and the manufacturer's "opinions"). Most of those that I have I bought blind based on the opinions of those on here, and from some reviews I managed to translate and (sort of) understand on the net.
> 
> Also to update that list a bit, the Smabat ST10S I have is the Black and Gold version (150 Ohms). There are two versions; silver, and black & gold. That isn't to say that the silver ones (40 Ohms) are bad, I just don't know as I don't have those.



Technically, there's 2-1/2 versions - since my Smabat ST-10s (Gold/Black) (2020) are actually 300-Ω, as measured at the MMCX connectors, with two different Multi-Meters.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Endlessly LOL


Well, it could be worse. Those drivers could instead be sports cars (that cost more than I make in a year). Lol

Let us know how it goes?! I am interested to hear about the "journey".


----------



## samandhi

DBaldock9 said:


> Technically, there's 2-1/2 versions - since my Smabat ST-10s (Gold/Black) (2020) are actually 300-Ω, as measured at the MMCX connectors, with two different Multi-Meters.


Yeah, that is an oddity. I wonder how many of those got out the door?! Do they sound similar to the regular ones, or do you know?


----------



## MelodyMood

My last earbud SMABAT M0 isn't good. Shell is too big so very difficult to securely fit and use and the sound quality is just Ok. Is there any new suggestion? Good Build Quality, Very Clear but warm sound with good bass too. And with Mic. MMCX ones are also fine. However, I noticed that my MMCX Cables are now not soft anymore and they are more or less kind of High Tension Electric Wire kind of hard


----------



## silverszi

samandhi said:


> Good luck with your search. I hope you find what you are looking for (sonically)?!


Thanks
I probably won't though but I already use eq a lot because nothing sounds correct enough to my ears, but perceptible flat is what i aim for.


----------



## silverszi

samandhi said:


> Yeah, that is an oddity. I wonder how many of those got out the door?! Do they sound similar to the regular ones, or do you know?


On one of the aliexpress listings it shows that there's a 300 ohm version so I think they were inteded as separate listings.


----------



## mt877

mochill said:


> What happened to smabat M4, it's supposed to be delivered no later the July 30th which is like 10 days away


Just logged in at smabat site and see my pre-sale crowdfunding order is still unprocessed. The smabat timeline was supposed to be delivery of first batch to crowdfunding users by 7/15. I guess they are behind. Also noticed the price went up from crowdfunding price of $43 to $65, so crowdfunding period is definitely over. Maybe crowdfunding shipments will be coming soon(?).


----------



## numon

mt877 said:


> Just logged in at smabat site and see my pre-sale crowdfunding order is still unprocessed. The smabat timeline was supposed to be delivery of first batch to crowdfunding users by 7/15. I guess they are behind. Also noticed the price went up from crowdfunding price of $43 to $65, so crowdfunding period is definitely over. Maybe crowdfunding shipments will be coming soon(?)


smabat said me shipping start on july 25th. also said dampers will be release in agust


----------



## silverszi

I'm going to cry. There's so many options and all of them have cons, even the ridiculously expensive ones that aren't even that good but the PT25 has my eyes just for having a different form factor and mmcx.


----------



## nofarewell

Hey All, short of getting one, which is actually almost impossible, do you know any earbuds that can provide the most of the Aiwa HP-V9's presentation?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 29, 2022)

nofarewell said:


> Hey All, short of getting one, which is actually almost impossible, do you know any earbuds that can provide the most of the Aiwa HP-V9's presentation?


Below are three (3) still available earbud candidates that have similar sounding signatures to the 1986 Aiwa HP-V9 Digital which if had to be described in terms of a known full-sized headphone sound signature would be very similar to the Sennheiser HD598. Detailed and present mids that are not too forward. Sparkly, airy highs with no sibilance. Detailed bass that is not boomy but is also a bit weak (little to no impact) and not very present. Bass was the Achilles heel of early golden era Aiwa earbuds (they really didn't get a handle on bass until the 1988 Super PowerBass Pipe-Phone models group e.g. HP-V25/V53/V57/V88/V99).

2016 - Ostry KC08; 32ΩCCAW // Ostry KC08T; 40ΩTi​2016 - Yinman 音曼 150; 150Ω (no wooden stem; fixed cable)​2016 - TY Hi-Z HP-650; 650Ω​
Aiwa HD-V series earbuds were known for their excellent timbre and magical mids and highs whereas the Sony MDR-E series was known for it's better, stronger bass, commanding mids, and overall better build quality. I personally found that the earlier 1983 Aiwa HP-V3 Big Red Super or even the 1983 Aiwa HP-V30 Stereo sounded better than the 1986 HP-V9 Digital model by a long shot. And as mentioned before the slightly later 1988 HP-V99 Super PowerBass Pipe-Phone would do circles around all of them. Nothing in the Aiwa earbud lineup could touch the V88/V99 Super PowerBass Pipe-Phones until the arrival of the 1990 HP-D9 and the 1995 HP-V741/V743 Fantasy Bass Flute-Phone or perhaps the 1996 HP-V151/3/5/7/9 Dream Bass Pipe-Phone or the 1998 HP-V553 Super Bass.


----------



## silverszi

silverszi said:


> I'm going to cry. There's so many options and all of them have cons, even the ridiculously expensive ones that aren't even that good but the PT25 has my eyes just for having a different form factor and mmcx.


On that point has anyone used Pizen on AE, link:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...11147860__pc__pcBridgePPC__xxxxxx__1658419263


----------



## waynes world

samandhi said:


> Well, it could be worse. Those drivers could instead be sports cars (that cost more than I make in a year). Lol



True dat! Or we could instead be addicted to buying anything and everything off of facebook marketplace (my wife is, and it's not a good thing lol!)


----------



## samandhi

waynes world said:


> True dat! Or we could instead be addicted to buying anything and everything off of facebook marketplace (my wife is, and it's not a good thing lol!)


Oh, I hadn't considered that one. I should because even though my wife doesn't purchase from there (yet), she is on it looking all the time... 

But, on the other hand, as much as I have spent on head gear in the last couple years, I suppose I can't begrudge her a BIT of fun. 😇 (just don't tell her I said that)


----------



## silverszi

I am dying over here, I'm now wanting to buy the LBBs and am too tired to keep searching head-fi threads for answers. Anyone know of anything similar with an mmcx connector? Or is DIY mmcx not too bad to do?


----------



## FranQL (Jul 21, 2022)

silverszi said:


> Or is DIY mmcx not too bad to do?


that's the right road


----------



## samandhi

silverszi said:


> I am dying over here, I'm now wanting to buy the LBBs and am too tired to keep searching head-fi threads for answers. Anyone know of anything similar with an mmcx connector? Or is DIY mmcx not too bad to do?


Just get yourself a Yincrow RW2000 and be done with it. Great quality, all round balanced sound, MMCX connector, class leading cable as stock, etc...


----------



## silverszi

samandhi said:


> Just get yourself a Yincrow RW2000 and be done with it. Great quality, all round balanced sound, MMCX connector, class leading cable as stock, etc...


Any cable recommendations if i don't have anything but the ety mmcx (has a little notch so it doesnt fit into others and it's a crappy cable anyway)
Ah I forgot about the price.


----------



## digititus

silverszi said:


> Any cable recommendations if i don't have anything but the ety mmcx (has a little notch so it doesnt fit into others and it's a crappy cable anyway)
> Ah I forgot about the price.


It (RW2000) comes with a cable. Why would you need another?


----------



## silverszi

digititus said:


> It (RW2000) comes with a cable. Why would you need another?


I thought RW2000 was a different one for a sec.


----------



## jeejack

DIY Workroom JJ Bubble Gum 300 ohm


----------



## samandhi

silverszi said:


> Any cable recommendations if i don't have anything but the ety mmcx (has a little notch so it doesnt fit into others and it's a crappy cable anyway)
> Ah I forgot about the price.


Nope, no cable needed. Matter of fact that cable is so good, you may wish you could order one separately for other buds. Lol


jeejack said:


> DIY Workroom JJ Bubble Gum 300 ohm


Thise look very nice! How do they sound?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

jeejack said:


> DIY Workroom JJ Bubble Gum 300 ohm


Awesome! Added to the Flathead Timeline!


----------



## captione

jeejack said:


> DIY Workroom JJ Bubble Gum 300 ohm


Uwah, the DIY Workroom circle started appearing. Gotta post some of my work too~

*DIY Workroom "H-F" 500ohm*




These Elfinear 300ohm> high impedance drivers are a pain when it comes to shaping its pinna gain. It really *needs* to be choked. After months of playing around on and off, and with some advice from a _certain tito from Spain_, I finally manage to tune these Elfinears with a pinna gain that fits my own target. From a lifeless dynamic sound, became something of a _max ultra hyper upgraded _K'searphones K64 sort of sound sound profile, which I absolutely love.

I also did some first time braiding flat, and I gotta say, flat braids are the best.


----------



## samandhi

captione said:


> Uwah, the DIY Workroom circle started appearing. Gotta post some of my work too~
> 
> *DIY Workroom "H-F" 500ohm*
> 
> ...


Very nice.

In the caption you have them as 500 ohm, but in the description you list 300 ohm. Which of the two is it?


----------



## Setmagic

Setmagic said:


> DIY Workroom* Setmagic Cappuccino Gold
> *
> 300 ohm in custom profiled classic MX500, MMCX balanced 2,5mm powered by ES100mk2 in double power voltage 6,4V.
> 
> ...


Me too 😊


----------



## captione

samandhi said:


> Very nice.
> 
> In the caption you have them as 500 ohm, but in the description you list 300 ohm. Which of the two is it?


Oh sorry, that came out kind of confusing, I was referring to Elfinear drivers of high impedance from 300ohms beyond (>).


----------



## samandhi

captione said:


> Oh sorry, that came out kind of confusing, I was referring to Elfinear drivers of high impedance from 300ohms beyond (>).


OIC. Now it makes sense...


----------



## samandhi

Setmagic said:


> Me too 😊


Sehr Nice!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

jeejack said:


> DIY Workroom JJ Bubble Gum 300 ohm





captione said:


> DIY Workroom "H-F" 500ohm





Setmagic said:


> Me too 😊


All on the timeline!


----------



## silverszi

I want to press checkout so bad and there's only two things stopping me:
my disposable monies, (I have money, I just don't want to use it, but this hobby is pulling my strings)
no mmcx and as far as i can see not much diy mmcx has been done for the LBBs.


----------



## samandhi

silverszi said:


> I want to press checkout so bad and there's only two things stopping me:
> my disposable monies, (I have money, I just don't want to use it, but this hobby is pulling my strings)
> no mmcx and as far as i can see not much diy mmcx has been done for the LBBs.


Answers:

You will sooner or later, better to do in a controlled way... LOL
Then you can be the among the first. 
Done deal right? hehe

Nobody says that Head-Fi has rules against twisting other people's arms.


----------



## jeejack

silverszi said:


> I want to press checkout so bad and there's only two things stopping me:
> my disposable monies, (I have money, I just don't want to use it, but this hobby is pulling my strings)
> no mmcx and as far as i can see not much diy mmcx has been done for the LBBs.


Then don't press 😉


----------



## silverszi

samandhi said:


> Answers:
> 
> You will sooner or later, better to do in a controlled way... LOL
> Then you can be the among the first.
> ...





jeejack said:


> Then don't press 😉


b-b-b-but
sound 🥺


----------



## samandhi

silverszi said:


> b-b-b-but
> sound 🥺


Trust me, I KNOW your dilemma!


----------



## FranQL

silverszi said:


> b-b-b-but
> sound 🥺


I don't like the sound of that bud at all... I can't encourage you to pull the trigger


----------



## silverszi (Jul 21, 2022)

FranQL said:


> I don't like the sound of that bud at all... I can't encourage you to pull the trigger


The LBBs?
Can I ask why, what aspect?


----------



## Plancu

samandhi said:


> If you are coming from IEMs or headphones, the bass from an earbud isn't really comparable (some come close though). There are a few that have really large amounts of bass for an earbud though. Again, they will never have the kind of bass you would get from an IEM though. That isn't to say that they aren't accurate in their bass replication, it is just that most of us that came from IEMs are actually used to boosted bass and don't really realize it.
> 
> If you listen to a neutral set for a while, then go back and listen to something you thought normal afterwards, they might seem pretty darn bassy all of a sudden. It is all in what we get used to.


Yes, fully agree. No debate here. IEMs do have bottom end humps (at least the cheaper ones I've tried). 

But a 90Hz roll off is still very much bass-shy, especially in a frequency graph like the one for Y3 Donkey. A nice accurate graph is as objective as it can get (frequency being one of the few measurable, objective qualities of audio). 

I have over the years acquired the taste for decent, clean, fast, non-bloated bass. And the thing I like most about it is that it fits all music genres and, maybe also important, they're easier to equalize. 
Bassy headphones make a lot of music sound bad. Even music that should, in theory, benefit from from the extra bass.


----------



## Plancu

samandhi said:


> That sort of depends on who you talk to, because there are a ton of them out there, and it also depends on one's preference. But IMO you can't go wrong with either:
> Yinman 600 2.0 (600 ohm) if you have the power to drive them
> Yincrow RW2000
> Yincrwo RW3000
> ...


Thank you very much @samandhi for the list. It's a great starter

Would anyone have correct frequency graphs for any of the buds above ?


----------



## samandhi

So, I decided to try and trick my brain a bit. I stopped listening to the Yinman 600 2.0 after a time and have been using some high end over ear headphones for (almost) a couple days (Focal Elegia). If there were things that were wonky about the Yinmans, I would notice after "cleansing my palette" so to speak with very balanced and neutral head gear. I figured that since I was using them all day every day for a time that I might just get used to whatever I might have heard otherwise. 

Well, it turns out that these are STILL top dawg in my camp. They still sound absolutely amazing to me! Nothing stands out as being too high or low with these (other than a bit of needed sub-bass, but they ARE earbuds which I sometimes almost forget). There is some magic going on here IMHO! For those that have plenty of power to push some serious ohms, I STILL recommend these. They are fantastic for pretty much all types of music (almost) equally. I totally think that they are more than worth their asking price.

Don't get me wrong here, I wouldn't sell any of my others because they sound different enough that they don't really compete against any of the others (which is a great thing to me).


----------



## samandhi

Plancu said:


> Yes, fully agree. No debate here. IEMs do have bottom end humps (at least the cheaper ones I've tried).
> 
> But a 90Hz roll off is still very much bass-shy, especially in a frequency graph like the one for Y3 Donkey. A nice accurate graph is as objective as it can get (frequency being one of the few measurable, objective qualities of audio).
> 
> ...


One thing to keep in mind is to take earbud graphs with a grain of salt. That's not to say that they can't be accurate, but they can also be more skewed than with an IEM because they are much harder to measure, and because they are SO open, and don't have a cup (like an open back circumaural would), it is much harder to get a good reading. Because it all depends on where/how they rest in your concha more so than IEMs and open back do.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

samandhi said:


> So, I decided to try and trick my brain a bit. I stopped listening to the Yinman 600 2.0 after a time and have been using some high end over ear headphones for (almost) a couple days (Focal Elegia). If there were things that were wonky about the Yinmans, I would notice after "cleansing my palette" so to speak with very balanced and neutral head gear. I figured that since I was using them all day every day for a time that I might just get used to whatever I might have heard otherwise.
> 
> Well, it turns out that these are STILL top dawg in my camp. They still sound absolutely amazing to me! Nothing stands out as being too high or low with these (other than a bit of needed sub-bass, but they ARE earbuds which I sometimes almost forget). There is some magic going on here IMHO! For those that have plenty of power to push some serious ohms, I STILL recommend these. They are fantastic for pretty much all types of music (almost) equally. I totally think that they are more than worth their asking price.
> 
> Don't get me wrong here, I wouldn't sell any of my others because they sound different enough that they don't really compete against any of the others (which is a great thing to me).


Concur. Mine are performing admirably as well. Very unique signature in many ways. I still haven't quite got my head around them yet so I need some more time to mull them over and figure them out but I am definitely understanding why *@Alex.Grimm* thinks so highly of them.


----------



## Plancu

Ronion said:


> The Donkey is one of the worst performing drivers as far as bass is concerned (still sounds great and I use it for Classical music all the time) and the Vido definitely goes deeper.  It goes as deep or even a little deeper than a Sennheiser HD650 which is a highly recommended and lauded headphone.   Other buds definitely go deeper like this one I built recently…..  SMABAT builds buds with bass…. As far as super cheap buds go, I’m not sure there are any better than the Vido unless you know how to roll your own.  Otherwise you’ve got to pay to play (bass).


Sennheisers always seemed bass shy to me. Some say they need to be properly amped to get decent results.

But anyways, the graph you pasted looks similar to the one for the Superlux 668b I own which are pretty good (far from perfect) in terms of bass. 
Thank you very much for posting it. I think I'll start with the Vidos.


----------



## nofarewell

WoodyLuvr said:


> Below are three (3) still available earbud candidates that have similar sounding signatures to the 1986 Aiwa HP-V9 Digital which if had to be described in terms of a known full-sized headphone sound signature would be very similar to the Sennheiser HD598. Detailed and present mids that are not too forward. Sparkly, airy highs with no sibilance. Detailed bass that is not boomy but is also a bit weak (little to no impact) and not very present. Bass was the Achilles heel of early golden era Aiwa earbuds (they really didn't get a handle on bass until the 1988 Super PowerBass Pipe-Phone models group e.g. HP-V25/V53/V57/V88/V99).
> 
> 2016 - Ostry KC08; 32ΩCCAW // Ostry KC08T; 40ΩTi​2016 - Yinman 音曼 150; 150Ω (no wooden stem; fixed cable)​2016 - TY Hi-Z HP-650; 650Ω​
> Aiwa HD-V series earbuds were known for their excellent timbre and magical mids and highs whereas the Sony MDR-E series was known for it's better, stronger bass, commanding mids, and overall better build quality. I personally found that the earlier 1983 Aiwa HP-V3 Big Red Super or even the 1983 Aiwa HP-V30 Stereo sounded better than the 1986 HP-V9 Digital model by a long shot. And as mentioned before the slightly later 1988 HP-V99 Super PowerBass Pipe-Phone would do circles around all of them. Nothing in the Aiwa earbud lineup could touch the V88/V99 Super PowerBass Pipe-Phones until the arrival of the 1995 HP-V741/V743 Fantasy Bass Flute-Phone or perhaps the 1996 HP-V151 Dream Bass Pipe-Phone.


Thanks again for the detailed and comprehensive answer


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur. Mine are performing admirably as well. Very unique signature in many ways. I still haven't quite got my head around them yet so I need some more time to mull them over and figure them out but I am definitely understanding why *@Alex.Grimm* thinks so highly of them.


Take your time, mine aren't going anywhere in the mean-time... 



Plancu said:


> Sennheisers always seemed bass shy to me. Some say they need to be properly amped to get decent results.
> 
> But anyways, the graph you pasted looks similar to the one for the Superlux 668b I own which are pretty good (far from perfect) in terms of bass.
> Thank you very much for posting it. I think I'll start with the Vidos.


IMHO I don't think that Sennys are "bass shy" as you would put it, though they may seem as such coming from anything that has more quantity. Most of them are pretty neutral, which is also controversial as to what that might mean. However, I consider neutral to be what it would sound like when the band is playing in the studio with no mixing. 

But, I actually agree with you in most cases. I do love some neutral well balanced head gear, but sometimes I just like the bass to add warmth and liveliness. It isn't the true sound of the artists (in most cases for the music I mostly like), but sometimes you just don't care and want that toe tapping experience. 

Anyhow, it has been my experience that most buds CAN handle some boosting in the mid and sub bass region. I think that maybe manufacturers tune them down for "worst case scenerio" so they never distort. That is opinion only though. Or another theory is that when they are tuning them, they don't tune them to where they sit in your ear, they tune them as if they were pushed all the way in your ear tight. 

What I mean is; if you take a decent set of buds, and push (and hold) them into your ears tight, they all of a sudden sound right (lots of bass), but as soon as you let them go, they sometimes get honky and have less bass. The Yinman (as a for instance) I think were tuned to this "resting" position because when I push them into my ears and hold them, they actually have TOO much bass. 

Again, just some theories.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jul 21, 2022)

silverszi said:


> I am dying over here, I'm now wanting to buy the LBBs and am too tired to keep searching head-fi threads for answers. Anyone know of anything similar with an mmcx connector? Or is DIY mmcx not too bad to do?





FranQL said:


> that's the right road





silverszi said:


> I want to press checkout so bad and there's only two things stopping me:
> my disposable monies, (I have money, I just don't want to use it, but this hobby is pulling my strings)
> no mmcx and as far as i can see not much diy mmcx has been done for the LBBs.



1st one, this is the earlier LBS model 2018, which has a much warmer sound signature. 

I would not recommend the threaded MMCX connector like this. It was a royal pain to do.




This is the more popular LBBs (2020/2021+) converted. 

This has a much easier MMCX connector to add.





I will say, with the MMCX cable ends they are much more stable fitting.






captione said:


> Uwah, the DIY Workroom circle started appearing. Gotta post some of my work too~



Uhhh wait. Are previous diy thread buds are now getting listed or are these just the ones being sold?


----------



## captione

assassin10000 said:


> Uhhh wait. Are previous diy thread buds are now getting listed or are these just the ones being sold?


These are new projects though, and I don’t see them getting sold anytime.


----------



## Ronion (Jul 21, 2022)

Plancu said:


> Yes, fully agree. No debate here. IEMs do have bottom end humps (at least the cheaper ones I've tried).
> 
> But a 90Hz roll off is still very much bass-shy, especially in a frequency graph like the one for Y3 Donkey. A nice accurate graph is as objective as it can get (frequency being one of the few measurable, objective qualities of audio).
> 
> ...


I’m betting the new FiiO buds or the new SMABAT would give you enough bass.  The graph for the FiiO (which is what inspired me to post the Y3 Donkey) makes it look like it will have bass like that old Japanese driver I posted.  It may not equal Xelentos, IER Z1R, or IE900, etc…. But they have enough to do any recording justice.  The only posted the graph of the ff3 without a foam on and people were saying it wouldn’t have enough bass, but the foamless bass is deeper than the foamed Donkey.  FiiO says that it gets down to 40Hz with the bass foams.  Should be enough.  Deeper than the majority of available speakers.


----------



## Ronion (Jul 21, 2022)

Plancu said:


> Sennheisers always seemed bass shy to me. Some say they need to be properly amped to get decent results.
> 
> But anyways, the graph you pasted looks similar to the one for the Superlux 668b I own which are pretty good (far from perfect) in terms of bass.
> Thank you very much for posting it. I think I'll start with the Vidos.


The Vido won’t do bass as well as the Superlux.  Sorry to say.  The superlux would be among the best bass in buds category if it were a bud.  Just by the graph, that would be the second best bud I’ve measured.

I almost forgot, there’s another cheap bud with real bass: the HE150 available at Penon.  It’s the purple line.  Also has the advantage of a large soundstage.  https://penonaudio.com/he-150ohm.html


the ST20 pro also goes deep:


----------



## mt877

Plancu said:


> Yes, fully agree. No debate here. IEMs do have bottom end humps (at least the cheaper ones I've tried).
> 
> But a 90Hz roll off is still very much bass-shy, especially in a frequency graph like the one for Y3 Donkey. A nice accurate graph is as objective as it can get (frequency being one of the few measurable, objective qualities of audio).
> 
> ...


I'm gonna add to this. Totally agree with @Ronion on the FiiO FF3. There's got to be others on Head-fi that picked up these buds, but since I'm the only one (that I know of so far) who gave any impression... I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say the FF3 may become a 'reference' bud for this modern era. It does many things so well. The 3 sets of foams which are included let you tune them to your preference, bassy, balanced or crispy treble. I was using the full thin foams (balanced sound) but ultimately switched to crispy treble (donut foams). People often say a certain bud is good for one genre of music or other, but the FF3 shine with many different genres of music. I've listened to classical, rock, blues, kpop (mainly female), country, jazz, smooth jazz, world, new age, acoustic... and the FF3 do not disappoint. FiiO really tuned the FF3 exceptionally well. If the FF3 are that good (to my ears) right now, I'm really wondering how the upcoming FF5 are gonna be.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> I'm gonna add to this. Totally agree with @Ronion on the FiiO FF3. There's got to be others on Head-fi that picked up these buds, but since I'm the only one (that I know of so far) who gave any impression... I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say the FF3 may become a 'reference' bud for this modern era. It does many things so well. The 3 sets of foams which are included let you tune them to your preference, bassy, balanced or crispy treble. I was using the full thin foams (balanced sound) but ultimately switched to crispy treble (donut foams). People often say a certain bud is good for one genre of music or other, but the FF3 shine with many different genres of music. I've listened to classical, rock, blues, kpop (mainly female), country, jazz, smooth jazz, world, new age, acoustic... and the FF3 do not disappoint. FiiO really tuned the FF3 exceptionally well. If the FF3 are that good (to my ears) right now, I'm really wondering how the upcoming FF5 are gonna be.


Good deal. Maybe having companies such as Moondrop, and FiiO in with buds will attract other companies to be competitive where they are concerned. My only concern is that if they DO jump in, prices in general will spike like they did with IEMs... I like that buds are much better price/performance ratio than other head gear. 

So, I have changed my mind, let's keep these things fairly secretive...


----------



## Ronion

mt877 said:


> I'm gonna add to this. Totally agree with @Ronion on the FiiO FF3. There's got to be others on Head-fi that picked up these buds, but since I'm the only one (that I know of so far) who gave any impression... I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say the FF3 may become a 'reference' bud for this modern era. It does many things so well. The 3 sets of foams which are included let you tune them to your preference, bassy, balanced or crispy treble. I was using the full thin foams (balanced sound) but ultimately switched to crispy treble (donut foams). People often say a certain bud is good for one genre of music or other, but the FF3 shine with many different genres of music. I've listened to classical, rock, blues, kpop (mainly female), country, jazz, smooth jazz, world, new age, acoustic... and the FF3 do not disappoint. FiiO really tuned the FF3 exceptionally well. If the FF3 are that good (to my ears) right now, I'm really wondering how the upcoming FF5 are gonna be.


There’s an FF5 coming?


----------



## mt877

Ronion said:


> There’s an FF5 coming?


Planned release is September. Checkout this FiiO news release.


----------



## mochill

How's aiwa v052 🤔


----------



## assassin10000

silverszi said:


> I want to press checkout so bad and there's only two things stopping me:
> my disposable monies, (I have money, I just don't want to use it, but this hobby is pulling my strings)
> no mmcx and as far as i can see not much diy mmcx has been done for the LBBs.



If you were in the U.S. I'd offer one of my already MMCX modded pairs. I think international shipping kinda kills sending it to you ($17-23 iirc).


----------



## Ronion

mt877 said:


> Planned release is September. Checkout this FiiO news release.


FiiO is on fire with their latest releases.  Seems like they are really putting in the work.  Now if they would only bring back the A5 and the Monte Blanc all would be right with the world.  The FD series is impressive and it looks like the FF may be as well.  Hopefully they’re not plagued by QC issues.


----------



## waynes world

Ronion said:


> FiiO is on fire with their latest releases.  Seems like they are really putting in the work.  Now if they would only bring back the A5 and the Monte Blanc all would be right with the world.  The FD series is impressive and it looks like the FF may be as well.  Hopefully they’re not plagued by QC issues.



I still use my Mont Blanc regularly (I got the pre-production version with extended sub-bass boost). Great amp!


----------



## Ronion

waynes world said:


> I still use my Mont Blanc regularly (I got the pre-production version with extended sub-bass boost). Great amp!


Used my Monte Blanc last night . You are a lucky man.  I got mine early in the production, but not “pre”.  I still LOVE this amp.  I actually like it more than the A5 most of the time.  It might be less clean, but it has more character.


----------



## jeejack

samandhi said:


> Nope, no cable needed. Matter of fact that cable is so good, you may wish you could order one separately for other buds. Lol
> 
> Thise look very nice! How do they sound?


A pleasant warm sound with very good highs and mids


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Used my Monte Blanc last night . You are a lucky man.  I got mine early in the production, but not “pre”.  I still LOVE this amp.  I actually like it more than the A5 most of the time.  It might be less clean, but it has more character.


I never got a chance to use that one. I had the Alpen and Alpen II (E17 and E17K), which were great for me.


----------



## silverszi

assassin10000 said:


> If you were in the U.S. I'd offer one of my already MMCX modded pairs. I think international shipping kinda kills sending it to you ($17-23 iirc).


Do you have a guide to doing mmcx mods?


----------



## silverszi

assassin10000 said:


> 1st one, this is the earlier LBS model 2018, which has a much warmer sound signature.
> 
> I would not recommend the threaded MMCX connector like this. It was a royal pain to do.
> 
> ...


Also are you sure it's the LBs not LBBs,
other people on head-fi have stated that this model with that cable specifically is the LBBs, there were 3 model options on the nicehck listing. Or do you mean your first image?


----------



## listen4joy (Jul 22, 2022)

Ordered Yincrow X6, hope it will be upgrade from Monk Plus.


----------



## BCool

With all these planar IEMs coming out recently, I'm surprised that nobody's tried putting a driver in an earbud yet. Is it just because the drivers are harder to get a hold of?


----------



## samandhi

BCool said:


> With all these planar IEMs coming out recently, I'm surprised that nobody's tried putting a driver in an earbud yet. Is it just because the drivers are harder to get a hold of?


We have a member here that was looking into it but turned out to be technically not so good (from all of his research). I don't remember the details, but the posts are on this thread if you do a search for planar + earbuds. As for me, I would love to see one also.


----------



## BCool

samandhi said:


> We have a member here that was looking into it but turned out to be technically not so good (from all of his research). I don't remember the details, but the posts are on this thread if you do a search for planar + earbuds. As for me, I would love to see one also.


I've just read @ClieOS DIY attempt. Definitely interesting. Seems like a manufacturer would have an easier time tuning a driver and designing an enclosure but I don't think there's much overlap between planar IEM and earbud brands, apart from TRN maybe?


----------



## samandhi

BCool said:


> I've just read @ClieOS DIY attempt. Definitely interesting. Seems like a manufacturer would have an easier time tuning a driver and designing an enclosure but I don't think there's much overlap between planar IEM and earbud brands, apart from TRN maybe?


Not sure that any (bigger) manufacturer has gotten it into their head yet that a planar bud is even possible. It is such a niche product these days that I am not sure anyone wants to take the risk with the R&D cost... Or it could just be that they don't know there is anyone interested... Who knows? 

Heck, there are only a few hybrid buds to date (that I am aware of). I happen to have one (one DD and one BA), and I don't think it was overly successful for their bottom line (not enough to fund the next project to hear it told from DUNU point of view), though it wasn't terrible by any means.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 22, 2022)

mochill said:


> How's aiwa v052 🤔


So...

Aiwa HP-V051 Super Bass - Duo Bass Boost Pipe-Phone; 16Ω​Aiwa HP-V052 Super Bass - Duo Bass Boost Pipe-Phone; 16Ω (w/ retractable cable winding case)​
These are budget, low to mid-tier, models really not worth pursuing in my humble opinion.

The Golden Idols of Aiwa were/are the following:

*1983 - Aiwa HP-V3 Big Red Super - Inner Ear Mini Stereo Headphones; 32Ω (w/ volume control; travel case)*​1988 - Aiwa HP-V88 Super PowerBass Pipe-Phone; 16Ω (w/ 60mm resonance pipe)​1988 - Aiwa HP-V99 Super PowerBass Pipe-Phone; 16Ω (w/ 60mm resonance pipe)​1990 - Aiwa HP-D8 Pipe-Phone for Digital - Aiwa Touch; 16Ω​*1990 - Aiwa HP-D9 Pipe-Phone for Digital - Aiwa Touch; 16Ω (aka King of Aiwa Earbuds; w/ 60mm acoustic U-shaped pipe; SA-CO (钐-Co) drive magnet)*​1990 - Aiwa HP-J7 Vertical Pipe-Phone - Aiwa Touch; 16Ω​1990 - Aiwa HP-J7V Vertical Pipe-Phone - Aiwa Touch; 16Ω​1992 - Aiwa HP-D8 Pipe-Phone for Digital; 16Ω (w/ 60mm acoustic U-shaped pipe; SA-CO (钐-Co) drive magnet)​*1992 - Aiwa HP-J8 Vertical Pipe-Phone - Aiwa Touch; 16Ω*​1992 - Aiwa HP-V14 Super Bass Pipe-Phone; 16Ω (aka Small Gold Bar w/ 30mm acoustic U-shaped pipe)​1992 - Aiwa HP-V14 Super Bass Pipe-Phone; 16Ω (aka Small Silver Bar w/ 30mm acoustic U-shaped pipe)​1992 - Aiwa HP-V16 Super PowerBass Pipe-Phone; 16Ω (aka Big Gold Bar)​1992 - Aiwa HP-V70 Super Bass Pipe-Phone; 16Ω (aka Large Silver Arc w/ 30mm acoustic U-shaped pipe)​*1994 - Aiwa HP-J9 Vertical Pipe-Phone - Aiwa Touch; 16Ω*​1995 - Aiwa HP-V541 Super Bass - Duo Bass Boost Pipe-Phone; 16Ω (aka 95 Gold Holes w/ Double Gold Small Holes; 45mm acoustic U-shaped pipe)​1995 - Aiwa HP-V543 Super Bass - Duo Bass Boost Pipe-Phone; 16Ω (aka 95 Gold Holes w/ Double Gold Small Holes; 45mm acoustic U-shaped pipe)​*1995 - Aiwa HP-V741 Fantasy Bass - Duo Bass Boost Flute-Phone; 16Ω (aka 95 Gold Holes w/ Double Gold Small Holes; 45mm acoustic u-shaped bass pipe)*​*1995 - Aiwa HP-V743 Fantasy Bass - Duo Bass Boost Flute-Phone; 16Ω (aka 95 Gold Holes w/ Double Gold Small Holes; 45mm acoustic u-shaped bass pipe; volume control)*​1998 - Aiwa HP-V553 Super Bass - Duo Bass Boost Pipe-Phone - Air Fit Tech; 16Ω (gold bar on black/silver bar on black/silver bar on silver w/ long stem; retractable cable winding case)​


----------



## assassin10000

silverszi said:


> Do you have a guide to doing mmcx mods?


There is an earbud diy thread, in the diy section of the forum. Thats where I posted these pics originally.


silverszi said:


> Also are you sure it's the LBs not LBBs,
> other people on head-fi have stated that this model with that cable specifically is the LBBs, there were 3 model options on the nicehck listing. Or do you mean your first image?


Correct, 1st pic with the difficult to do threaded connector is the LBs.

The 2nd & 3rd pictures are the LBBs.


----------



## silverszi

assassin10000 said:


> There is an earbud diy thread, in the diy section of the forum. Thats where I posted these pics originally.


I'll look into that, but I'm thinking is there even a point of mmcx modding if the cable isn't dead yet?


----------



## Ronion

silverszi said:


> I'll look into that, but I'm thinking is there even a point of mmcx modding if the cable isn't dead yet?


Better ergonomics.


----------



## assassin10000

silverszi said:


> I'll look into that, but I'm thinking is there even a point of mmcx modding if the cable isn't dead yet?





Ronion said:


> Better ergonomics.


^ this.

Balanced cables or cable rolling (for the believers).


----------



## Braekfast

Been doing some review reading and comparing and whatnot these past few days. Right now I'm considering either the yincrow rw-2000, the fiio ff3, or some flavour of diy bud. The rw-2000 seems like a all round good bud, but at the 160-180 euro I currently find it at it's a little pricey to my taste. The ff3's look nice and seem to get good reviews too. And then there's the buds by Rikudougoku that also seem to get rave reviews across the board. 
I've had a look around for other DIY'ers in the EU, but I've not found any yet. Either the info is a bit hard to find or my searching skills have just gotten rusty. 

Currently I'm leaning towards diy, mostly because it seems the most interesting choice of the bunch. But I'm still shopping around, since I'm an indecisive boyo. 

For reference, the current gear I use/like (Just in case this list makes someone go "dude, you totally want X model"): 
Yincrow X6: loved it, sadly has passed away recently.
LBBS (with EQ): really like the sound, but way too fiddly to get a good fit with my ears. 
HD650: The headphones I use at my desk, so literally every day. Love them to bits
KSC75: I like these especially with some EQ, but feel like they lack a bit on the low end
KPH30i: the flipside of the KSC75, theyre fine on the low end but I find them a tad too dark


listen4joy said:


> Ordered Yincrow X6, hope it will be upgrade from Monk Plus.


I can only talk for myself, but I have both and to me the X6 was a noticeable step up from the monk plus. Mostly in the low end of the sounds and the detail. I think you'll be satisfied with it.


----------



## samandhi

Braekfast said:


> Been doing some review reading and comparing and whatnot these past few days. Right now I'm considering either the yincrow rw-2000, the fiio ff3, or some flavour of diy bud. The rw-2000 seems like a all round good bud, but at the 160-180 euro I currently find it at it's a little pricey to my taste. The ff3's look nice and seem to get good reviews too. And then there's the buds by Rikudougoku that also seem to get rave reviews across the board.
> I've had a look around for other DIY'ers in the EU, but I've not found any yet. Either the info is a bit hard to find or my searching skills have just gotten rusty.
> 
> Currently I'm leaning towards diy, mostly because it seems the most interesting choice of the bunch. But I'm still shopping around, since I'm an indecisive boyo.
> ...


Not for nothing, you are right about the RW2000 being a really great all-rounder, but I can understand that lack of desire to spend that sort of money.

If you have something that can drive the HD650 well, then I would recommend the Yinman 600 2.0 for $114. IMO they are better in almost every way than the RW2000 (and that is saying something because they used to be my top pick), except for a fixed cable (and they are made of wood too). If you like the HD650, then you will like the overall signature of the Yinman; warm, but very clear, nothing fatiguing about them, but hi fidelity. They are similar to the HD650 except with bass and the "Sennheiser veil". Now keep in mind, while they can get very deep, and have great speed and texture, they lack a bit of slam (something that I am not missing as much as I thought I might once discovered). Otherwise the bass is absolutely otherworldly for a(n) (non DIY) earbud.

Bottom line is that both have a great full sound, and are not thin in really any area, but they ARE different in their tuning. I think you can't go wrong with either one of them, but that is my opinion and possibly mine alone...


----------



## assassin10000

Braekfast said:


> Been doing some review reading and comparing and whatnot these past few days. Right now I'm considering either the yincrow rw-2000, the fiio ff3, or some flavour of diy bud. The rw-2000 seems like a all round good bud, but at the 160-180 euro I currently find it at it's a little pricey to my taste. The ff3's look nice and seem to get good reviews too. And then there's the buds by Rikudougoku that also seem to get rave reviews across the board.
> I've had a look around for other DIY'ers in the EU, but I've not found any yet. Either the info is a bit hard to find or my searching skills have just gotten rusty.
> 
> Currently I'm leaning towards diy, mostly because it seems the most interesting choice of the bunch. But I'm still shopping around, since I'm an indecisive boyo.
> ...



Did you try adding silicone rings beneath the foams on the LBBS?

That is, if your ears comfortably fit the larger mx500 size housings.


----------



## samandhi

@Ronion as usual you were right as rain. I finally got my replacement 32 ohm fiber drivers today, and I just put them in. All I can say is wow! These seem to be the least offensive in the presence region of all the drivers I have tried in the M2s Pro shell, while remaining very clear. And that bass. I'm not sure it is as big as the 100 or 150, but it is so punchy and fast sounding. Man! These are great!

I now see what you meant, because now (at this moment) THESE are my favorite drivers for this shell, for the moment I think. 🥴

Plus, being smaller, they fit my ears so much better.


----------



## Charlyro222

If you love midrange, specially female vocal music. This combo is the best I never tasted. Just AMAZING (Asura Pure White and Defiant Se)


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 23, 2022)

Charlyro222 said:


> If you love midrange, specially female vocal music. This combo is the best I never tasted. Just AMAZING (Asura Pure White and Defiant Se)


Always enjoy your posts especially when they come with pics and music selections!

This most recent post of yours prompted my creating a dedicated timeline for *Venture Electronics (VE) 微翼音频*... (everyone) please let me know any missing models and/or corrections:

*VENTURE ELECTRONICS (VE) 微翼音频 TIMELINE*


----------



## Ronion (Jul 23, 2022)

samandhi said:


> @Ronion as usual you were right as rain. I finally got my replacement 32 ohm fiber drivers today, and I just put them in. All I can say is wow! These seem to be the least offensive in the presence region of all the drivers I have tried in the M2s Pro shell, while remaining very clear. And that bass. I'm not sure it is as big as the 100 or 150, but it is so punchy and fast sounding. Man! These are great!
> 
> I now see what you meant, because now (at this moment) THESE are my favorite drivers for this shell, for the moment I think. 🥴
> 
> Plus, being smaller, they fit my ears so much better.


Your impressions match mine quite well!  Actually, I would say “exactly”.  The bass is probably bit less, but I wouldn’t say it’s bass deficient, and the character, timbre, fit and presence more than make up for it IMO.  I’m so glad you like them.  In honor of it, I’m listening To them now.  There’s a 32Ohm Bio driver in the DIY world and their sound and character is very similar.  The SMABAT version has deeper bass. I don’t recall seeing this driver in their new lineup and I think it’s a shame.  In fact, I just checked and it’s no longer available.  You may have gotten the last one sadly— but I’m glad you got it!  I do feel a bit sad to know it’s unobtainable now. 

Again, this is what I hate about these SMABAT drivers: they are all so good and each in their own way.   On the grand scheme of things the differences are subtle, but they do all have their own individual character that is great in their own, unique way.  It is nice to be able to change them out for whatever mood you are in and the new version does seem to make that even easier.   I know myself: I’m going to end up getting it.  I swore off SMABAT after the ST20 pro’s pinna gain was so dramatic, but there’s just so much potential even there…. The bass is deep and tight and after the EQ I’ve made for it, the treble is pleasant and detailed, and the soundstage is MASSIVE.  2nd largest I’ve heard.  It literally requires the Qudelix to run it though and in 4V.  To get loud, it needs to be nearly maxed out. 

Anyway, sorry for veering off topic.  The 32 fibre in the M2S pro is a sublime listening experience, 150ti is the music machine, all the others are somewhere between with their own subtle side character.  I’m going to ask them to bring the 32 fiber driver to the M4.  It can’t hurt to ask.


----------



## numon

Ronion said:


> Your impressions match mine quite well!  Actually, I would say “exactly”.  The bass is probably bit less, but I wouldn’t say it’s bass deficient, and the character, timbre, fit and presence more than make up for it IMO.  I’m so glad you like them.  In honor of it, I’m listening To them now.  There’s a 32Ohm Bio driver in the DIY world and their sound and character is very similar.  The SMABAT version has deeper bass. I don’t recall seeing this driver in their new lineup and I think it’s a shame.  In fact, I just checked and it’s no longer available.  You may have gotten the last one sadly— but I’m glad you got it!  I do feel a bit sad to know it’s unobtainable now.
> 
> Again, this is what I hate about these SMABAT drivers: they are all so good and each in their own way.   On the grand scheme of things the differences are subtle, but they do all have their own individual character that is great in their own, unique way.  It is nice to be able to change them out for whatever mood you are in and the new version does seem to make that even easier.   I know myself: I’m going to end up getting it.  I swore off SMABAT after the ST20 pro’s pinna gain was so dramatic, but there’s just so much potential even there…. The bass is deep and tight and after the EQ I’ve made for it, the treble is pleasant and detailed, and the soundstage is MASSIVE.  2nd largest I’ve heard.  It literally requires the Qudelix to run it though and in 4V.  To get loud, it needs to be nearly maxed out.
> 
> Anyway, sorry for veering off topic.  The 32 fibre in the M2S pro is a sublime listening experience, 150ti is the music machine, all the others are somewhere between with their own subtle side character.  I’m going to ask them to bring the 32 fiber driver to the M4.  It can’t hurt to ask.


'soundstage is MASSIVE.  2nd largest I’ve heard' 
 which  earbud is 1st one?


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Your impressions match mine quite well!  Actually, I would say “exactly”.  The bass is probably bit less, but I wouldn’t say it’s bass deficient, and the character, timbre, fit and presence more than make up for it IMO.  I’m so glad you like them.  In honor of it, I’m listening To them now.  There’s a 32Ohm Bio driver in the DIY world and their sound and character is very similar.  The SMABAT version has deeper bass. I don’t recall seeing this driver in their new lineup and I think it’s a shame.  In fact, I just checked and it’s no longer available.  You may have gotten the last one sadly— but I’m glad you got it!  I do feel a bit sad to know it’s unobtainable now.
> 
> Again, this is what I hate about these SMABAT drivers: they are all so good and each in their own way.   On the grand scheme of things the differences are subtle, but they do all have their own individual character that is great in their own, unique way.  It is nice to be able to change them out for whatever mood you are in and the new version does seem to make that even easier.   I know myself: I’m going to end up getting it.  I swore off SMABAT after the ST20 pro’s pinna gain was so dramatic, but there’s just so much potential even there…. The bass is deep and tight and after the EQ I’ve made for it, the treble is pleasant and detailed, and the soundstage is MASSIVE.  2nd largest I’ve heard.  It literally requires the Qudelix to run it though and in 4V.  To get loud, it needs to be nearly maxed out.
> 
> Anyway, sorry for veering off topic.  The 32 fibre in the M2S pro is a sublime listening experience, 150ti is the music machine, all the others are somewhere between with their own subtle side character.  I’m going to ask them to bring the 32 fiber driver to the M4.  It can’t hurt to ask.


Oh, not, not deficient at all, just not as large as the SO and 150TI. I think the SO is sort of an "in-between" of the 32 bio and the 150TI (which might be why I liked it so well also). That sucks that it is no longer available. I may have to ask them about the 32 bio as well. Maybe by having more people ask about it, they can include it with their new modular system. I don't suppose it would be all that hard IMO. 

So far you have been pretty much on point about all of them. And I have to digress about picking a favorite, because that just isn't really possible. I would also bet that, even though I didn't plan on getting into the new modular system (because I am perfectly happy with the current ones I have), I WILL indeed get them at some point...  

I didn't realize that the ST20 pro was THAT difficult to drive?! Is the efficiency that low in them?


numon said:


> 'soundstage is MASSIVE.  2nd largest I’ve heard'
> which  earbud is 1st one?


I would bet it would probably be the Rose Technics Maria II (but I could be wrong, those are the widest I have heard), or a DIY set if not???? That's my guess.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

numon said:


> 'soundstage is MASSIVE.  2nd largest I’ve heard'
> which  earbud is 1st one?





samandhi said:


> I would bet it would probably be the Rose Technics Maria II (but I could be wrong, those are the widest I have heard), or a DIY set if not???? That's my guess.


Concur, the *Rose Technics Maria II* really does offer a wondrously wide soundstage... such stellar imaging that I could easily label them the 'queen of soundstage (widest) of all flathead earbuds'. The only other earbud offering such wide and open staging would probably be the *Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis* which I would easily give the honor of calling 'king of soundstage (widest) of all flathead earbuds'.

*2020 - Rose Technics Maria II; 14Ω (two sizes: 16mm or 14.8mm)*​*2020 - Toneking (MrZ - MusicMaker) Dendroaspis Viridis; 32Ω (aka Green Mamba)*​


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur, the *Rose Technics Maria II* really does offer a wondrously wide soundstage... such stellar imaging that I could easily label them the 'queen of soundstage (widest) of all flathead earbuds'. The only other earbud offering such wide and open staging would probably be the *Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis* which I would easily give the honor of calling 'king of soundstage (widest) of all flathead earbuds'.
> 
> *2020 - Rose Technics Maria II; 14Ω (two sizes: 16mm or 14.8mm)*​*2020 - Toneking (MrZ - MusicMaker) Dendroaspis Viridis; 32Ω (aka Green Mamba)*​


Encyclopedia Of All Earbuds @WoodyLuvr to the rescue again...


----------



## Ronion

Believe it or not, it’s not a Super-Fi type of bud that has the biggest soundstage.  Keep in mind that I’ve never heard the Rose or the Toneking and they may very well be wider.  It’s the cheapo Tingo TG38.  They are essentially equivalent.  The Tingo lacks the bass and the build quality of the SMABAT ST20 pro.  Unequalized, the ST20 pro is actually probably wider, but there’s no way I could tolerate that pinna gain.  Ice Pick.  Another cheap one with a large soundstage is the HE150.  It has bass too, but a weird tonality and cheap cable…

after you reduce the pinna gain, the ST20 Pro’s main driver is so far from the ear drum that you don’t have a lot of efficiency left.  You have to drop pinna gain and lower treble/presence region by 15dB before it’s listenable!  Once it’s balanced and stabilized, it’s great.  Prior to that it’s hell.


----------



## samandhi

Speaking of huge staging, this song is/has always been brilliant for that, and especially with the (new found) 32 ohm bio w/M2s Pro shell:


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Believe it or not, it’s not a Super-Fi type of bud that has the biggest soundstage.  Keep in mind that I’ve never heard the Rose or the Toneking and they may very well be wider.  It’s the cheapo Tingo TG38.  They are essentially equivalent.  The Tingo lacks the bass and the build quality of the SMABAT ST20 pro.  Unequalized, the ST20 pro is actually probably wider, but there’s no way I could tolerate that pinna gain.  Ice Pick.  Another cheap one with a large soundstage is the HE150.  It has bass too, but a weird tonality and cheap cable…
> 
> after you reduce the pinna gain, the ST20 Pro’s main driver is so far from the ear drum that you don’t have a lot of efficiency left.  You have to drop pinna gain and lower treble/presence region by 15dB before it’s listenable!  Once it’s balanced and stabilized, it’s great.  Prior to that it’s hell.


LOL Ice pick...


----------



## Braekfast

samandhi said:


> Not for nothing, you are right about the RW2000 being a really great all-rounder, but I can understand that lack of desire to spend that sort of money.
> 
> If you have something that can drive the HD650 well, then I would recommend the Yinman 600 2.0 for $114. IMO they are better in almost every way than the RW2000 (and that is saying something because they used to be my top pick), except for a fixed cable (and they are made of wood too). If you like the HD650, then you will like the overall signature of the Yinman; warm, but very clear, nothing fatiguing about them, but hi fidelity. They are similar to the HD650 except with bass and the "Sennheiser veil". Now keep in mind, while they can get very deep, and have great speed and texture, they lack a bit of slam (something that I am not missing as much as I thought I might once discovered). Otherwise the bass is absolutely otherworldly for a(n) (non DIY) earbud.
> 
> Bottom line is that both have a great full sound, and are not thin in really any area, but they ARE different in their tuning. I think you can't go wrong with either one of them, but that is my opinion and possibly mine alone...



Unfortunately that 114$ turns into about 145 euro once shipping and taxes are included. EU VAT is a bit of a bummer, but at least aliexpress prepays them so I don't have to pay the lads at the customs office for "administrative fees", which tend to add another 20-30 euro. 
Besides that, I'm not sure my current setup could drive a 600ohm earbud. The HD650 is surprisingly easy to drive, so most days I have it plugged either into a dongle dac at the back of my pc, or just straight into the motherboard and it manages to get painfully loud when maxed. My earbuds meanwhile I exclusively use with my phone or laptop, driven by another dongle dac (the VE odessey hd). And I don't think that little dongle can do 600ohm.
Still, thank you for the recommendation. I've got it bookmarked just in case. 



assassin10000 said:


> Did you try adding silicone rings beneath the foams on the LBBS?
> 
> That is, if your ears comfortably fit the larger mx500 size housings.


I haven't yet, no. I'll have to get me some next time I order from ali, it's definitely worth a shot. I did try those silicon earhook things, but I could never quite get them to fit right on the LBBS.


----------



## FranQL (Jul 23, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Believe it or not, it’s not a Super-Fi type of bud that has the biggest soundstage.  Keep in mind that I’ve never heard the Rose or the Toneking and they may very well be wider.  It’s the cheapo Tingo TG38.  They are essentially equivalent.  The Tingo lacks the bass and the build quality of the SMABAT ST20 pro.  Unequalized, the ST20 pro is actually probably wider, but there’s no way I could tolerate that pinna gain.  Ice Pick.  Another cheap one with a large soundstage is the HE150.  It has bass too, but a weird tonality and cheap cable…
> 
> after you reduce the pinna gain, the ST20 Pro’s main driver is so far from the ear drum that you don’t have a lot of efficiency left.  You have to drop pinna gain and lower treble/presence region by 15dB before it’s listenable!  Once it’s balanced and stabilized, it’s great.  Prior to that it’s hell.



I decided to remove the ST20 shell driver. I thought it could give better performance, and wow... I think so, what great drivers Smabat makes, this 50 Ohm LCP is very good, just like its 40 Ohm LCP brother.

In ST20 shell I have inserted a 32 Ohm driver with which I have achieved high performance. What things, an exceptional driver does not give all that it can offer in that shell and a DIY driver sounds great.

Regarding the soundstage, Dendroaspis has it, but they are far from a reference sound (IMO).

We will see the performance of the Smabat 150 Ti driver, which will soon fall into my hands, I also have perfectly clear what I want to do with it, thanks @samandhi .


----------



## FranQL

samandhi said:


> LOL Ice pick...


For what it costs, you must have a pair of Tingo TG38.... yep


----------



## samandhi

FranQL said:


> I decided to remove the ST20 shell driver. I thought it could give better performance, and wow... I think so, what great drivers Smabat makes, this 50 Ohm LCP is very good, just like its 40 Ohm LCP brother.
> 
> In ST20 shell I have inserted a 32 Ohm driver with which I have achieved high performance. What things, an exceptional driver does not give all that it can offer in that shell and a DIY driver sounds great.
> 
> ...


So, do you think the 32 ohm drivers sound better in the ST20 shell? Also, what shell are you going to put the driver that came out of the ST20 into?

You should also have another set of 32 bio soon (though one is currently not working, maybe it is fixable?).


----------



## samandhi

Braekfast said:


> Unfortunately that 114$ turns into about 145 euro once shipping and taxes are included. EU VAT is a bit of a bummer, but at least aliexpress prepays them so I don't have to pay the lads at the customs office for "administrative fees", which tend to add another 20-30 euro.
> Besides that, I'm not sure my current setup could drive a 600ohm earbud. The HD650 is surprisingly easy to drive, so most days I have it plugged either into a dongle dac at the back of my pc, or just straight into the motherboard and it manages to get painfully loud when maxed. My earbuds meanwhile I exclusively use with my phone or laptop, driven by another dongle dac (the VE odessey hd). And I don't think that little dongle can do 600ohm.
> Still, thank you for the recommendation. I've got it bookmarked just in case.
> 
> ...


You are welcome! And I totally get it. Don't feel like you would offend me if you didn't/don't buy anything I suggest. That is why suggestions are thrown out there, so you can make an informed decision on what YOU want. I know what I like, but I would never try and push something on anyone else. I can only share what those things mean to me (and my specific ears). 

I also might throw another suggestion out there that I find to be an excellent pair but are fairly cheap. It doesn't have a removable cable, but are built like a (light) tank, and sound very similar in tuning to the M2s Pro stock driver. That is the NichHCK EB2S for somewhere between $15-$25. You CAN take them seriously even though they have the anime waifu front and center of the packaging. 

With all that being said, you should definitely let us know what you end up with, and how they perform for you?!


----------



## Braekfast

samandhi said:


> You are welcome! And I totally get it. Don't feel like you would offend me if you didn't/don't buy anything I suggest. That is why suggestions are thrown out there, so you can make an informed decision on what YOU want. I know what I like, but I would never try and push something on anyone else. I can only share what those things mean to me (and my specific ears).
> 
> I also might throw another suggestion out there that I find to be an excellent pair but are fairly cheap. It doesn't have a removable cable, but are built like a (light) tank, and sound very similar in tuning to the M2s Pro stock driver. That is the NichHCK EB2S for somewhere between $15-$25. You CAN take them seriously even though they have the anime waifu front and center of the packaging.
> 
> With all that being said, you should definitely let us know what you end up with, and how they perform for you?!


Oh no, absolutely. If I gave off the impression that I was feeling forced/pressured into agreeing or buying, that certainly wasn't my intention. I'm very happy that you guys are willing to give pointers and recommendation, I seriously would never find even half of these earbuds on my own. 

I did have a look at those since I saw them mentioned in the thread elsewhere. They seem nice, though they're 35-ish euro for me. Just the EU VAT doing its thing again, I suppose. 
I've got a couple of buds in that price range already though. Off the top of my head: VE monk, VE monk plus, VE monk lite, Kbear stellar, ME180 (absolutely hated these, sounded super thin and bad to the point where I'm still questioning if I got a fake pair or something), faeel datura pro, yincrow x6, and the LBBS. So far, a lot of these feel like sidegrades to eachother. They do one thing better but another aspect is worse, etc. Since I've sorta narrowed down the kind of sound I enjoy, I was just thinking it might be best to spend a bit more money in the hopes of getting a bud with similar tonality/sound/vibe, but with more detail and such. Technicalities, I think the term is? Not sure if my logic here holds up, of course, since earbud pricing is all over the place.


----------



## samandhi

Braekfast said:


> Oh no, absolutely. If I gave off the impression that I was feeling forced/pressured into agreeing or buying, that certainly wasn't my intention. I'm very happy that you guys are willing to give pointers and recommendation, I seriously would never find even half of these earbuds on my own.
> 
> I did have a look at those since I saw them mentioned in the thread elsewhere. They seem nice, though they're 35-ish euro for me. Just the EU VAT doing its thing again, I suppose.
> I've got a couple of buds in that price range already though. Off the top of my head: VE monk, VE monk plus, VE monk lite, Kbear stellar, ME180 (absolutely hated these, sounded super thin and bad to the point where I'm still questioning if I got a fake pair or something), faeel datura pro, yincrow x6, and the LBBS. So far, a lot of these feel like sidegrades to eachother. They do one thing better but another aspect is worse, etc. Since I've sorta narrowed down the kind of sound I enjoy, I was just thinking it might be best to spend a bit more money in the hopes of getting a bud with similar tonality/sound/vibe, but with more detail and such. Technicalities, I think the term is? Not sure if my logic here holds up, of course, since earbud pricing is all over the place.


I agree, it sounds like you may need to move up to mid-tier or top-tier to get what you are wanting. There are those that charge a lot because they can, then there are the ones that really are worth their price (to me anyhow). 

I don't think it is so much all over the place per se'. It is more like IEM pricing cut by 16 (or something like that). So really when you get to $150 + you are reaching flagship/TOTL level for earbuds. Having said that though, I have heard some that are cheaper and are just as good as what you would see priced as TOTL buds. That is where it gets confusing, I think. 

Yeah, a lot of the cheaper buds DO indeed sacrifice something for something else. This is the reason I suggested the ones I did. They sacrifice very little in overall sound IMHO. Or what they DO sacrifice, you don't miss as much. Maybe you will have to wait for the new Smabat modular buds. They will be more reasonable in pricing (I think), but if they are anything like the M2s Pro (which I believe they use the same drivers possibly), then they will be fantastic. But even if they aren't OOTB, you can always switch drivers to get the sound you like. Just a thought.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

FranQL said:


> Regarding the soundstage, Dendroaspis has it, but they are far from a reference sound (IMO).


Very true... although the Green Mambas (Dendroaspis Viridis) have spectacularly wide head/soundstage and do offer sweet vocals and middle mids I totally agree with *@FranQL* that they are not reference at all especially with a super wonky timbre that is totally off in the lower and upper frequencies due to a ultra mid-centric aggressive primary signature and rolled off bass. They are very 'tinny' sounding with quite harsh and upper mids and lower treble that can be super fatiguing. Plus, the rolled off bass is very noticeable with many genres with heavy upper bass bleed into the lower mids. A real shame as they look totally bad ass and again what they do well (soundstage) is pure magic.


----------



## Ronion

Well, and just like that my little SMABAT fibre driver died.  Tested it in the MM and it’s dead….  So my last living SMABAT drivers are the LCP and SO.  I have soldered the SO into a hybrid shell and the LCP into the M2s pro.  Very depressing.


----------



## Eduardiofilo

When using white lotus s300 or another earbuds of 300 ohm do you activate "high gain"?

I feel that these earbuds need the high gain of my amplifier (Atom amp)


----------



## Ronion

Eduardiofilo said:


> When using white lotus s300 or another earbuds of 300 ohm do you activate "high gain"?
> 
> I feel that these earbuds need the high gain of my amplifier (Atom amp)


I know their kissing cousin, the Donkey graphed earlier in this thread, needs some juice to sound its best.  A high gain Atom sounds a little overkill, but ‘more power to you’(pun).  I bet it doesn’t hurt.  

on a side note: the SMABAT LCP has a lot of potential.  I put some loose cotton that my wife uses for some reason or another inside the shell, and it’s got the LCP sounding far more balanced than I ever had it before.  It’s a sweet sounding bud now.  I’m still mourning the passing of the fibre baby, but this is making things go a little easier.  Definitely not a replacement, but a worthy companion.


----------



## FranQL (Jul 24, 2022)

samandhi said:


> So, do you think the 32 ohm drivers sound better in the ST20 shell? Also, what shell are you going to put the driver that came out of the ST20 into?
> 
> You should also have another set of 32 bio soon (though one is currently not working, maybe it is fixable?).



I've only tried one, the idea is that it should be easy to handle, and yes, IMO it sounds better. But I'm not the biggest fan of my two Smabat shells. For M0 I achieved great performance with a driver 400 Ohm + Mod shell, on ST20 with driver 32 Ohm + Mod. IMO the performance of the drivers is much better go out of these shells.

The 50 Ohm LCP driver is now sounding great in another bud manufacturer's shell. With its corresponding faceplate transplant.


----------



## Into The Light5

Has anyone tried these before? Seems like very little information about this brand


----------



## jeejack

Into The Light5 said:


> Has anyone tried these before? Seems like very little information about this brand


What brand ? 🥸🙃
Those drivers are not so good

...I use Smabat M2s shells with the new 64 TI drivers


----------



## digititus

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Venture Electronics (VE) Master* launched though no specs yet... perhaps it is the previously mentioned 150Ω variant of the Monk Slim Metal or simply a recable of the Monk Slim Metal. Anyone know/have the the details regarding this new earbud model?
> 
> *2022 - VE Master (80ΩLCP; Metal (?) MX Shell; SPC cable)*


Any comments on these yet? Seems to be only available with Megatron


----------



## WoodyLuvr

digititus said:


> Any comments on these yet? Seems to be only available with Megatron


*2022 - Venture Electronics 微翼音频 (VE) Master; 80ΩLCP (w/ metal MX shell; SPC cable)

@Charlyro222* owns a pair; maybe he will chime in.


----------



## Braekfast

samandhi said:


> I agree, it sounds like you may need to move up to mid-tier or top-tier to get what you are wanting. There are those that charge a lot because they can, then there are the ones that really are worth their price (to me anyhow).
> 
> I don't think it is so much all over the place per se'. It is more like IEM pricing cut by 16 (or something like that). So really when you get to $150 + you are reaching flagship/TOTL level for earbuds. Having said that though, I have heard some that are cheaper and are just as good as what you would see priced as TOTL buds. That is where it gets confusing, I think.
> 
> Yeah, a lot of the cheaper buds DO indeed sacrifice something for something else. This is the reason I suggested the ones I did. They sacrifice very little in overall sound IMHO. Or what they DO sacrifice, you don't miss as much. Maybe you will have to wait for the new Smabat modular buds. They will be more reasonable in pricing (I think), but if they are anything like the M2s Pro (which I believe they use the same drivers possibly), then they will be fantastic. But even if they aren't OOTB, you can always switch drivers to get the sound you like. Just a thought.


Yeah, that is kinda what I figured. Buds in general seem like really good bang-for-your-buck, but I suspect there comes a point where there's only so much improvement you're likely to see within a price category. 

True, the prices themselves are very reasonable. I more meant it in the sense that you can get a 20 euro bud that sounds just as good as a 40-50 euro bud sometimes, and (at least to me) it's not always easy to figure out wether the 20 euro one is just really good, or the 40-50 euro one is just worse than it should be. So it's not always spend more = get more. I don't really know how the prices compare to IEM's to be honest. I've got some sort of skin condition in my ear canals that makes them very sensitive and itchy, trying to wear IEM's for longer than 10-15 minutes is torturous so I've just sort of given up on the form factor.

On the subject of cheaper TOTL buds, it does seem like there's quite a bit of variance in prices for buds that have what is considered TOTL sound. I'm assuming that buds by DIY makers also have/approach TOTL sound for reasonable prices, it's just a shame that I can't really consider the ones that are based in the US. Unless the lads in the customs office ignore packages between individuals for VAT, but I doubt they'll be so kind. 

The SMABAT modular bud lineups have always intrigued me with their modular design. Though I've not yet looked into exactly how modular they are. If they're only a small step below just soldering your own drivers, it might not be worth the premium.


----------



## mt877

Braekfast said:


> Yeah, that is kinda what I figured. Buds in general seem like really good bang-for-your-buck, but I suspect there comes a point where there's only so much improvement you're likely to see within a price category.
> 
> True, the prices themselves are very reasonable. I more meant it in the sense that you can get a 20 euro bud that sounds just as good as a 40-50 euro bud sometimes, and (at least to me) it's not always easy to figure out wether the 20 euro one is just really good, or the 40-50 euro one is just worse than it should be. So it's not always spend more = get more. I don't really know how the prices compare to IEM's to be honest. I've got some sort of skin condition in my ear canals that makes them very sensitive and itchy, trying to wear IEM's for longer than 10-15 minutes is torturous so I've just sort of given up on the form factor.
> 
> ...


Here's another forum thread for your reading enjoyment "Absolute best budget earbuds?". I've not read through that thread, but you might find some recommended budget buds mentioned. Some may not be available anymore, but you might find something.


----------



## baskingshark

Braekfast said:


> Yeah, that is kinda what I figured. Buds in general seem like really good bang-for-your-buck, but I suspect there comes a point where there's only so much improvement you're likely to see within a price category.
> 
> True, the prices themselves are very reasonable. I more meant it in the sense that you can get a 20 euro bud that sounds just as good as a 40-50 euro bud sometimes, and (at least to me) it's not always easy to figure out wether the 20 euro one is just really good, or the 40-50 euro one is just worse than it should be. So it's not always spend more = get more. I don't really know how the prices compare to IEM's to be honest. I've got some sort of skin condition in my ear canals that makes them very sensitive and itchy, trying to wear IEM's for longer than 10-15 minutes is torturous so I've just sort of given up on the form factor.
> 
> ...



On your query of how earbuds compare to IEMs in pricing:

*Budget* buds start from $1. Yes $1 - case in point - Vido. And these sound decent for 1 buck. I would consider the $30ish and below range to still be a budget earbud. Whereas IEMs are generally considered budget IEMs if they cost sub $100 USD.

*MidFI *buds are perhaps the $50 - 100ish range. For IEMs the midFI bracket starts from $100 - 500? Some consider $300 to sub 1K to be midFI for IEMs too.

*TOTL *for buds are something beyond $100?. For TOTL IEMs, they can be like $1000 - 3000 or beyond.


So as you can see, earbuds are generally priced more affordable than IEMs (in general). And I would personally say the best sweet spot for price-performance ratio for earbuds and IEMs is at the MidFI region.

Budget gear is good for the coin, but you do get some improvement going from budget -> midFI. There are diminishing returns of course, but going from MidFI -> TOTL the diminishing returns are very bad. We are talking ballpark 10 - 20% improvement for 10 times the price differential. Even TOTL set have weaknesses and a new TOTL summitFI earbud or IEM comes out every few weeks to dethrone the current contender. Some folks wanna chase that last 10% price at any cost, but for most folks who can't sell their kidneys away, the budget/midFI bracket is where the gold is, IMHO.


----------



## MelodyMood

Any earbuds of JCALLY Series which has good Clear but Warm Sound with good Bass too?  EP09 or EP98? How are they? Or JC 10? Should have clear sound but  good bass too. With Mic pls. 

Any other suggestion are welcome too. Thanks.


----------



## Ronion

Braekfast said:


> Yeah, that is kinda what I figured. Buds in general seem like really good bang-for-your-buck, but I suspect there comes a point where there's only so much improvement you're likely to see within a price category.
> 
> True, the prices themselves are very reasonable. I more meant it in the sense that you can get a 20 euro bud that sounds just as good as a 40-50 euro bud sometimes, and (at least to me) it's not always easy to figure out wether the 20 euro one is just really good, or the 40-50 euro one is just worse than it should be. So it's not always spend more = get more. I don't really know how the prices compare to IEM's to be honest. I've got some sort of skin condition in my ear canals that makes them very sensitive and itchy, trying to wear IEM's for longer than 10-15 minutes is torturous so I've just sort of given up on the form factor.
> 
> ...


I don’t know of any US based DIY salespersons.  Do you?


----------



## Setmagic

baskingshark said:


> On your query of how earbuds compare to IEMs in pricing:
> 
> *Budget* buds start from $1. Yes $1 - case in point - Vido. And these sound decent for 1 buck. I would consider the $30ish and below range to still be a budget earbud. Whereas IEMs are generally considered budget IEMs if they cost sub $100 USD.
> 
> ...


In my holy opinion.
Budget Earbuds start from 1$ and for 10$ you can get really good ones.


----------



## firesign

baskingshark said:


> ...
> 
> *TOTL *for buds are something beyond $100?. For TOTL IEMs, they can be like $1000 - 3000 or beyond.
> 
> ...


Nowadays a lot of people would say that $1000 IEMs are mid-fi or lower 💵💵💵😔


----------



## jao29

Anyone got their hands on the new earbuds by Fiio? Any impressions?


----------



## Setmagic (Jul 25, 2022)

firesign said:


> Nowadays a lot of people would say that $1000 IEMs are mid-fi or lower 💵💵💵😔


_Setmagic Golden Buds Award_

For all who spend 1000$ or more for craft IEMs


----------



## McCol

jao29 said:


> Anyone got their hands on the new earbuds by Fiio? Any impressions?


I received my FF3 yesterday, tried them initially with the balanced foams, really good depth to the sound from the 14.2mm driver but found them a bit too warm in the bass with those foams.
Switched to the crisp treble do-nut foams and much prefer the sound, still a nice bass depth but the warmth has gone to leave nice clear detail

Its my first earbud purchase for quite a while but very impressed by these buds from Fiio


----------



## Ronion

McCol said:


> I received my FF3 yesterday, tried them initially with the balanced foams, really good depth to the sound from the 14.2mm driver but found them a bit too warm in the bass with those foams.
> Switched to the crisp treble do-nut foams and much prefer the sound, still a nice bass depth but the warmth has gone to leave nice clear detail
> 
> Its my first earbud purchase for quite a while but very impressed by these buds from Fiio


One of the best things about buds is the ease of tweaking the sound with foams.  It can be done with other types of headphones as well, but the results are less predictable, often not what you are looking for, and the cost is considerably higher than with buds.  Even the “expensive” foams are cheap on the grand scheme of things.  With the economy the way it is, it’s nice to tweak on the cheap.


----------



## Setmagic (Jul 25, 2022)

Ronion said:


> One of the best things about buds is the ease of tweaking the sound with foams.  It can be done with other types of headphones as well, but the results are less predictable, often not what you are looking for, and the cost is considerably higher than with buds.  Even the “expensive” foams are cheap on the grand scheme of things.  With the economy the way it is, it’s nice to tweak on the cheap.


In other headphones on and over ear You have pads who are working the same way ☺️
In IEMs there are also silicones or foams.


----------



## Danneq (Jul 25, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Ah, so you got one of the coveted Black Editions... nice! Lucky dog you! The only thing rarer is Henry's CAX Gold, only two pair were made or perhaps his White CampFred which but only a few pair were made.
> 
> Yeah, if I recall correctly it was *@Danneq* who had confirmed with Henry the total amount of CAX Black Editions that he had made. I don't even think he sold them all either.
> 
> ...


Great summary of the Cypherus earbuds!

I have not heard from Herry since before the corona pandemic. I hope he's okay. He used to send a short e-mail when he was working on something new. I last heard from him in 2019. In 2018 we met at e-earphone in Akihabara in Tokyo, Japan. That's when I bought my pair of Zoomfred and got to listen to the White Campfred.

I follow Cypherus in Facebook but nothing new has been posted there for over 2 years. Also a Head fier sent me a pm with questions this spring, since the Head fier did not get a reply from Herry.

Herry told me that he goes to Akihabara 1-2 times a year to buy parts for earbuds and other audio related projects. But Japan has not accepted tourists since the pandemic started and has not opened up yet. I'm here right now with my family but I had to apply for a VISA to get in (My wife's Japanese so I get to enter as a relative). If Herry cannot get good parts he might not be able to focus on his hobby right now. Anyway, I hope he's okay.

I have not bought a new pair of earbuds in over 1 year. Fiio EM5 were the last ones. I went to e-earphone the other day and they only have 4-5 pairs of earbuds. I listened to Moondrop Chaconne and Audio Technica CM2000 (?). The Audio Technica earbuds have a great soundstage but sound very tinny. Chaconne blew them away. If I find a second hand pair of Chaconne I might buy them. Otherwise I am happy with my collection. Haven't even logged into Head fi for a few months. Lately I have been focusing more on my other hobby which is movies and home projectors...

Glad to see some old names here.


----------



## ttorbic

Ronion said:


> One of the best things about buds is the ease of tweaking the sound with foams.  It can be done with other types of headphones as well, but the results are less predictable, often not what you are looking for, and the cost is considerably higher than with buds.  Even the “expensive” foams are cheap on the grand scheme of things.  With the economy the way it is, it’s nice to tweak on the cheap.


I think I recall you or someone else saying this earlier on in this thread. I was excited to try out different foams to tune my two earbuds (Riku's Alter Rider 1 and Tgxear's Serratus), but I did not get the results I expected. I wanted to raise the bass on the Serratus, so I swapped out the stock for Hiegi foams, but the bass was weird, bloated, and the stage and tonality suffered. When I wanted to decrease the bass on Alter Rider 1 by switching the stock (dense) foam to Serratus stock foam, the sound became rather thin, and the treble too aggressive. In the end, I went back to stock foam on both sets (I really like them in stock anyway; just thought I'd experiment). And swapping foams is a pain! Ripped one just trying to get it on the earbud. 

Anyway, I'm a newbie in the earbuds world so I may have had unrealistic expectations, but so far I haven't had much luck with fine-tuning my sets using foams 🤷


----------



## Charlyro222 (Jul 25, 2022)

Just another masterpiece from Ve arrived.

You will literally be inmersed by music that will come and go every where.
Must be made taken in mind Instrumental Smooth Jazz. One of the best products if not the best that never listen for this kind of music.
A must have.


----------



## Plancu

Ronion said:


> The Vido won’t do bass as well as the Superlux.  Sorry to say.  The superlux would be among the best bass in buds category if it were a bud.  Just by the graph, that would be the second best bud I’ve measured.
> 
> I almost forgot, there’s another cheap bud with real bass: the HE150 available at Penon.  It’s the purple line.  Also has the advantage of a large soundstage.  https://penonaudio.com/he-150ohm.html
> 
> ...



Thank you for the suggestion... I was really leaning into buying the HE150, but opening the link you posted it seems the buds are both in stock and out of stock (probably quantum uncertainty). 

So probably I've missed them, as I did with lots of great gear that got discontinued


----------



## Plancu

samandhi said:


> But, I actually agree with you in most cases. I do love some neutral well balanced head gear, but sometimes I just like the bass to add warmth and liveliness. It isn't the true sound of the artists (in most cases for the music I mostly like), but sometimes you just don't care and want that toe tapping experience.



I really miss the bass-boost button from the old days. Now that it's gone, we'll have to wait for media players to start using AIs to learn our preferences in terms of music, "shaping" the sound and apply the bass on the fly, only where needed. What a great and cultured AI would that be 



samandhi said:


> Anyhow, it has been my experience that most buds CAN handle some boosting in the mid and sub bass region. I think that maybe manufacturers tune them down for "worst case scenerio" so they never distort. That is opinion only though. Or another theory is that when they are tuning them, they don't tune them to where they sit in your ear, they tune them as if they were pushed all the way in your ear tight.
> 
> What I mean is; if you take a decent set of buds, and push (and hold) them into your ears tight, they all of a sudden sound right (lots of bass), but as soon as you let them go, they sometimes get honky and have less bass. The Yinman (as a for instance) I think were tuned to this "resting" position because when I push them into my ears and hold them, they actually have TOO much bass.



Yes, I noticed that aswell. The bass is there, the driver can play it, but it's too quiet compared to the rest of the track. But listening with the earbuds pushed in is not sustainable as it would probably ruin a good, irreplaceable pair of ears (which already are passed their prime).

Probably this makes the buds equalizable, but I have never found a digital equalizer that can help in such situation( > 10 db). Maybe an analogue one, but I don't think such a thing exists in portable form.


----------



## samandhi

Plancu said:


> I really miss the bass-boost button from the old days. Now that it's gone, we'll have to wait for media players to start using AIs to learn our preferences in terms of music, "shaping" the sound and apply the bass on the fly, only where needed. What a great and cultured AI would that be
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Three words: Neutron, UAPP, Hiby. All of those apps have amazing DSP for portable (Neutrom being my favorite). And yes Neutron can boost to infinity, though you obviously wouldn't want that.


----------



## Braekfast

mt877 said:


> Here's another forum thread for your reading enjoyment "Absolute best budget earbuds?". I've not read through that thread, but you might find some recommended budget buds mentioned. Some may not be available anymore, but you might find something.


Thank you for the link, I'll have a read through there. 


baskingshark said:


> -snip-


Oh dear, I had no idea IEM's got so expensive. Maybe me being unable to use them is a blessing in disguise, so I don't get tempted to raid my wallet 


Ronion said:


> I don’t know of any US based DIY salespersons.  Do you?


Not right now no. The only two DIY people who sell that I know of so far are Rikidougoku and Blur, who are from sweden and singapore respectively IIRC. 
I suppose I was just guessing that most would be US based, because it's the case on some other (non-audio related) forums/groups that I'm in that the majority of the english speaking people are from either the US or the UK. You're right that that's merely an assumption on my part, which is my bad really.


----------



## ttorbic

Ronion said:


> I don’t know of any US based DIY salespersons.  Do you?


Newbsound is US based I believe, and @tgx78 is up north in Canada. Not sure about shipping costs from Canada to US...


----------



## Ronion (Jul 25, 2022)

Setmagic said:


> In other headphones on and over ear You have pads who are working the same way ☺️
> In IEMs there are also silicones or foams.


Thus:


Ronion said:


> It can be done with other types of headphones as well, but the results are less predictable, often not what you are looking for, and the cost is considerably higher than with buds.  Even the “expensive” foams are cheap on the grand scheme of things.  With the economy the way it is, it’s nice to tweak on the cheap.





ttorbic said:


> I think I recall you or someone else saying this earlier on in this thread. I was excited to try out different foams to tune my two earbuds (Riku's Alter Rider 1 and Tgxear's Serratus), but I did not get the results I expected. I wanted to raise the bass on the Serratus, so I swapped out the stock for Hiegi foams, but the bass was weird, bloated, and the stage and tonality suffered. When I wanted to decrease the bass on Alter Rider 1 by switching the stock (dense) foam to Serratus stock foam, the sound became rather thin, and the treble too aggressive. In the end, I went back to stock foam on both sets (I really like them in stock anyway; just thought I'd experiment). And swapping foams is a pain! Ripped one just trying to get it on the earbud.
> 
> Anyway, I'm a newbie in the earbuds world so I may have had unrealistic expectations, but so far I haven't had much luck with fine-tuning my sets using foams 🤷


That has been my experience With HeiGi as well, but they do feel good and last a long time.  Sounds like, you’ve gained the experience now to understand what changes you should expect from different foam densities.  I guess I made it sound like it was intuitively obvious.  It is not, but it’s much easier to figure out than for cans or IEMs in my experience and a whole lot cheaper.  It still won’t work out that way 100% of the time.  There are some odd ducks out there, but that’s the way it works most of the time.  Basically 3 different foam densities is all you need and it’s cheap and relatively easy to change.  I haven’t had the pain in the butt issue with swapping bud foams, but I understand the Cachonne is difficult to foam.  When I think of things that are challenging, that doesn’t begin to enter my list.  Some IEM tips are easier perhaps, but that’s not a given either.  I haven’t changed pads that easier than foams….  Thin foams do rip easily.  Buy in bulk if you need them.


ttorbic said:


> Newbsound is US based I believe, and @tgx78 is up north in Canada. Not sure about shipping costs from Canada to US...


I thought tgx was out of Canada, but they use a different postal service and I don’t really consider them American: just our friendly neighbor to the north.  Never would have imagined Newbsound was out of the US…. Thank you.  
I was just trying to point out that most of the DIY sellers are not in the US and that shipping from the US should not be a major concern.


----------



## Halimj7

Can anyone compare Moondrop chaconne to final piano forte ix? Thanks.


----------



## dissociativity

Plancu said:


> Thank you for the suggestion... I was really leaning into buying the HE150, but opening the link you posted it seems the buds are both in stock and out of stock (probably quantum uncertainty).
> 
> So probably I've missed them, as I did with lots of great gear that got discontinued


I still absolutely adore my HE150 Pro myself, and really enjoy the metal shell and braided cable, it's still my favorite earbud overall years later and definitely has bass that hits deeper than anything else I own barring maybe the 1more E1008, but the 1more is very dark tuned and the HE150 pro is very versatile


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Halimj7 said:


> Can anyone compare Moondrop chaconne to final piano forte ix? Thanks.


*2019 - MoonDrop 水月雨 Chaconne 夏空 (24Ω)*​*2011 - Final Audio Design Piano Forte IX (16Ω; aka 1602SS)*​
No comparison. The first is a flathead earbud while the second is a universal IEM and a very expensive universal at that! The first is newer tech born in 2019 while the later is older from ~2011. The first is of open-air design offering a very natural and airy FR while the other is of closed design and offers a very unique and rather unnatural sound signature even for IEMs. Although inspired by horn speakers the *Piano Forte IX* is far from any horn speaker that I have ever heard with a FR so way off from what we are used to hearing making the timbre and imaging rather odd sounding and thus why these IEMs are commonly said to be of acquired taste only. The only similarity between the two is, like the DQSM Turandot, they are both slippery buggers! From fit to changing ear cushions (foams) or ear tips they are super slippery requiring skilled dexterous fingers and certain ear types to conquer!


----------



## Ronion

@WoodyLuvr , you sir are a living, breathing earbud encyclopedia and I am still in awe.


----------



## mellowmoon

Is there something that would be a direct upgrade to the NiceHCK Traceless (2022)? After bouncing around between tons of different budget buds I like the tuning of these a lot.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> @WoodyLuvr , you sir are a living, breathing earbud encyclopedia and I am still in awe.


And it seems as though he also knows IEMs. I had never heard of those before now. LOL


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 26, 2022)

Ronion said:


> @WoodyLuvr , you sir are a living, breathing earbud encyclopedia and I am still in awe.





samandhi said:


> And it seems as though he also knows IEMs. I had never heard of those before now. LOL



LOL! Yes, I think I have almost earned the moniker "*earbud encyclopedia*" as my timeline has nearly 3,000 flatheads listed on it now.

Yes, I was quite into IEMs there for a good period of time. I believe I have owned more than 150-160 IEMs (mostly universal) since the 1990s and right before I went 'minimal' in SEP/OCT 2020 I had amassed around sixty (60) IEMs which I have since sold and gifted away. My very first IEM was the venerable Etymotic ER4 which I procured sometime in 1991/2 shortly after they first released. I really liked Shure for a good number of years and I was rather fond of the JVC Woody universal IEM line. In particular JVC's HA-FX750 model. But most unfortunately IEMs started giving me treacherously horrific earaches and headaches forcing me to abandon the medium altogether and reintroducing me to flathead earbuds after a twenty some year hiatus. I was pleasantly surprised!

I was also really into full-sized over-the-ear headphones (mostly open-back but I did have a short foray into the closed-back world as well) way back during the Headwize days before we all came over with Jude to Head-Fi in JUNE of 2001. Now I only have one pair, my SENN HD650s packed safely away in their box.

Before that (early 2000s and earlier) I was a two-channel nut for decades which funny enough I do not miss at all.

That all said, I can hands down say that earbuds for me have been (are) the best!


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> LOL! Yes, I think I have almost earned the moniker "*earbud encyclopedia*" as my timeline has nearly 3,000 flatheads listed on it now.
> 
> Yes, I was quite into IEMs there for a good period of time. I believe I have owned more than 150-160 IEMs (mostly universal) since the 1990s and right before I went 'minimal' in SEP/OCT 2020 I had amassed around sixty (60) IEMs which I have since sold and gifted away. My very first IEM was the venerable Etymotic ER4 which I procured sometime in 1991/2 shortly after they first released. I really liked Shure for a good number of years and I was rather fond of the JVC Woody universal IEM line. In particular JVC's HA-FX750 model. But most unfortunately IEMs started giving me treacherously horrific earaches and headaches forcing me to abandon the medium altogether and reintroducing me to flathead earbuds after a twenty some year hiatus. I was pleasantly surprised!
> 
> ...


WOW! Some fantastic history to be sure.


----------



## GREQ

WoodyLuvr said:


> I was rather fond of the JVC Woody universal IEM line. In particular JVC's HA-FX750 model.


Not just an encyclopedia but with good taste too 😉


----------



## codyghind

Hey y'all,

Anyone tried the new-ish TRN EMA yet? 

I think @koniotaur mentioned it recently, any feedback on its performance so far?


----------



## samandhi (Jul 26, 2022)

codyghind said:


> Hey y'all,
> 
> Anyone tried the new-ish TRN EMA yet?
> 
> I think @koniotaur mentioned it recently, any feedback on its performance so far?


Other than seeing he had an issue with one of the drivers, no. I don't have them. Maybe that person will post their thoughts on them when ready?!

It DOES look like (from the Manufacturer's FR graph) they might sound overall darkish and warm (hmm maybe they are trying to grow mushrooms ). At least it looks like it won't be (as @Ronion would put it) an "ice pick".  And they do look really nice (especially for $10, and a removeable cable).






Edit: Reading the customer reviews on AE for these, they are saying they sound just like the graph looks, very bassy and weak treble. Maybe this is the answer for those "bassheads" looking for a ton of bass in a bud?!


----------



## baskingshark

New NiceHCK earbud: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004572635997.html

Called the YD30. $9.90 USD.

*15.4mm PEEK+PU composite Dynamic Driver*














Importantly, comes with a Waifu.


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> New NiceHCK earbud: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004572635997.html
> 
> Called the YD30. $9.90 USD.
> 
> ...


Whudda' they make a new one every 10 days?


----------



## baskingshark

samandhi said:


> Whudda' they make a new one every 10 days?



Seems they are going down the KZ route of spamming releases every few weeks hahaha. I dunno, I don't really agree with the KZ marketing strategy of throwing as much crap on the wall and hope something sticks, but I guess whatever works for them.

Though I am sure some of our DIY friends here are more prolific in releasing new earbuds though.


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> Seems they are going down the KZ route of spamming releases every few weeks hahaha. I dunno, I don't really agree with the KZ marketing strategy of throwing as much crap on the wall and hope something sticks, but I guess whatever works for them.
> 
> Though I am sure some of our DIY friends here are more prolific in releasing new earbuds though.


I think flooding (their own) market is a horrible idea. People will accidentally buy the wrong one because who can keep track (besides @WoodyLuvr ) of them all, and people will get fed up and just ignore the brand IMO. Or, on the other hand, there will be people that buy ALL of them to try out.


----------



## FranQL (Jul 27, 2022)

samandhi said:


> I think flooding (their own) market is a horrible idea. People will accidentally buy the wrong one because who can keep track (besides @WoodyLuvr ) of them all, and people will get fed up and just ignore the brand IMO. Or, on the other hand, there will be people that buy ALL of them to try out.



to name them they use the board from the board game "sink the fleet"....


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Other than seeing he had an issue with one of the drivers, no. I don't have them. Maybe that person will post their thoughts on them when ready?!
> 
> It DOES look like (from the Manufacturer's FR graph) they might sound overall darkish and warm (hmm maybe they are trying to grow mushrooms ). At least it looks like it won't be (as @Ronion would put it) an "ice pick".  And they do look really nice (especially for $10, and a removeable cable).
> 
> ...


Any earbud graph that measures like that is measured under conditions that do not make sense for measuring earbuds unfortunately.  All it tells me Is that they either don’t know what they are doing or they are trying to fool potential customers.  Hard to say if they are charlatans or idiots, but either way I have no interest in their products.  Sometimes no information is better.  With that said, you can see where the problem areas are in this bud using those type of graph.  No bud will have flat bass to 20Hz in your ear however.  if a bud was measured correctly and the graph looked like that, it would be a total disaster.  This is why FiiO has regained my respect but posting graphs that will translate well into what you hear.  They had lost my respect after discontinuing the e12 and then A5 (I’m absolutely kidding about losing respect for FiiO ever.  I know they have a business to run.).  I believe Moondrop was posting appropriately done measurements of their better buds for a while.  Not sure if they still do.  If I didn’t learn my job, how could I expect to be paid to do it?  Don’t give these people money.  It only encourages them to remain uneducated and employed in an industry they have no “business“ participating in.  This is my hobby and I have a whole library on transducer design and psychoacoustics written by PhDs.  Anyone making money in this industry should at least know the basics.  Either these guys don’t, or they think that horrible looking graph will get you to give them money.


----------



## codyghind

Well said, I totally agree.

That's why I thought I should ask here first for actual/meaningful feedback, instead of relying on this fishy FR.

On the other hand, creating such unscientific FRs in the first place is good enough reason to be called out for.


----------



## Setmagic

Ronion said:


> Any earbud graph that measures like that is measured under conditions that do not make sense for measuring earbuds unfortunately.  All it tells me Is that they either don’t know what they are doing or they are trying to fool potential customers.  Hard to say if they are charlatans or idiots, but either way I have no interest in their products.  Sometimes no information is better.  With that said, you can see where the problem areas are in this bud using those type of graph.  No bud will have flat bass to 20Hz in your ear however.  if a bud was measured correctly and the graph looked like that, it would be a total disaster.  This is why FiiO has regained my respect but posting graphs that will translate well into what you hear.  They had lost my respect after discontinuing the e12 and then A5 (I’m absolutely kidding about losing respect for FiiO ever.  I know they have a business to run.).  I believe Moondrop was posting appropriately done measurements of their better buds for a while.  Not sure if they still do.  If I didn’t learn my job, how could I expect to be paid to do it?  Don’t give these people money.  It only encourages them to remain uneducated and employed in an industry they have no “business“ participating in.  This is my hobby and I have a whole library on transducer design and psychoacoustics written by PhDs.  Anyone making money in this industry should at least know the basics.  Either these guys don’t, or they think that horrible looking graph will get you to give them money.


Last time my friend ask me for recommendation of mid/hi-end DAP and I had difficult answer. I can't recommend any current device. They are so unfortunately expensive and just a snake oil.


----------



## BIG666

Danneq said:


> Great summary of the Cypherus earbuds!
> 
> I have not heard from Herry since before the corona pandemic. I hope he's okay. He used to send a short e-mail when he was working on something new. I last heard from him in 2019. In 2018 we met at e-earphone in Akihabara in Tokyo, Japan. That's when I bought my pair of Zoomfred and got to listen to the White Campfred.
> 
> ...


I hope Herry is well!

We last wrote to each other in February of this year.

He made two "special" costum (Aiwa HP V99 shell and own drivers and other materials) "CAX V99 Monitor" earphones for me in 2021 and 2022. In my opinion, they sound better than my CAX Black Edition earphones - or any other earphones I own.


----------



## gordonli

(I know its been done to death) Ill just casually vomit out my take on neutral EQ for my K's Bell-LBs (lbbs) unit, in case someone is new to EQ, and has a similar ear and unit to me. These were the devil to muck around with, but the technicalities are well worth it IMO. Very good detail and microdynamics across the board, not to mention excellent stage and separation/imaging. 

Also some good news, I have ordered Riku's Assassin 2 which will probably arrive within the next week 



Spoiler: EQ



Use with double medium density foams, full foam on top of donut foam.






```
GraphicEQ: 20 0; 30 -11; 35 -15; 40 -17; 50 -18; 60 -20.5; 70 -20.5; 100 -25; 200 -24; 300 -23; 700 -22; 1000 -25.5; 1500 -26.5; 2000 -33.5; 2700 -33; 3000 -32; 3500 -31; 4000 -31.5; 5500 -31.5; 6000 -29; 6500 -28.5; 7000 -27; 7500 -26; 8000 -23; 8500 -19; 9000 -18; 9500 -12.5; 9750 -11; 10000 -15; 12000 -24; 13000 -23.5; 13600 -23; 14000 -23; 15000 -22; 16000 -18;
```

You will need a graphic equalizer, preferably with 35 bands, and capable of -33.5dB cuts (but I list workarounds below). Such as EAPO, or through the Peace interface (click Commands to access EAPO & paste the code above in)

If the equalizer has less bands, delete some of the filters that only make small changes between them, like 0.5dB changes.

If the equalizer isn't capable of -33.5dB cuts, just give up on sub 30hz boost (its ok, this bud distorts there anyway). Set 30hz as 0dB starting point, and add 11dB to every other filter band. Or even further, set 35 or 40hz as starting points.


```
GraphicEQ: 30 0; 35 -4; 40 -6; ... 16000 -7;
```

Enjoy! Even if no one uses I just wanted to get it out there because they took so goshdarn long to eq, but its done now


----------



## samandhi

gordonli said:


> (I know its been done to death) Ill just casually vomit out my take on neutral EQ for my K's Bell-LBs (lbbs) unit, in case someone is new to EQ, and has a similar ear and unit to me. These were the devil to muck around with, but the technicalities are well worth it IMO. Very good detail and microdynamics across the board, not to mention excellent stage and separation/imaging.
> 
> Also some good news, I have ordered Riku's Assassin 2 which will probably arrive within the next week
> 
> ...


WOW! Very in depth. 

I just wanted to note to those that are using a(n) (android) DAP and want to use this profile, Neutron Music Player is capable of such cuts, and has (up to) a 60 band EQ/PEQ if they wanted to try this profile. Though if using that, they will have to enter it by hand AFAIK, though I don't see the BW numbers (or are you assuming the default of 1)?!. The profiles are stored on the device as .xml files so I am not sure of the structure needed for a simple copy paste. 

Perhaps if this were entered in as an Auto-EQ profile and uploaded to Github, it could be imported automatically (which Neutron also will do). This I am not sure of, as I have only seen Auto-EQ profiles entered as a 10 band PEQ. The good news with Neutron where EQ is concerned, one can mix EQ and PEQ in the same profile. Some food for thought, nonetheless.


----------



## gordonli (Jul 27, 2022)

samandhi said:


> WOW! Very in depth.
> 
> I just wanted to note to those that are using a(n) (android) DAP and want to use this profile, Neutron Music Player is capable of such cuts, and has (up to) a 60 band EQ/PEQ if they wanted to try this profile. Though if using that, they will have to enter it by hand AFAIK, though I don't see the BW numbers (or are you assuming the default of 1)?!. The profiles are stored on the device as .xml files so I am not sure of the structure needed for a simple copy paste.
> 
> Perhaps if this were entered in as an Auto-EQ profile and uploaded to Github, it could be imported automatically (which Neutron also will do). This I am not sure of, as I have only seen Auto-EQ profiles entered as a 10 band PEQ. The good news with Neutron where EQ is concerned, one can mix EQ and PEQ in the same profile. Some food for thought, nonetheless.


ah, I apologise, I dont think my filter settings will work outside of EAPO now that I have a look at the documentation. the GEQ implementation of EAPO does not appear to be standard, and no BW value for a PEQ. I may have a closer look later as I am not very clued in on filter design

edit: also I wonder does anyone else's LBBS have a sharp notch like mine at 9.5khz? you can see how I compensated for it in EQ. would be interested to know what the unit variation is like


----------



## Ronion (Jul 27, 2022)

gordonli said:


> (I know its been done to death) Ill just casually vomit out my take on neutral EQ for my K's Bell-LBs (lbbs) unit, in case someone is new to EQ, and has a similar ear and unit to me. These were the devil to muck around with, but the technicalities are well worth it IMO. Very good detail and microdynamics across the board, not to mention excellent stage and separation/imaging.
> 
> Also some good news, I have ordered Riku's Assassin 2 which will probably arrive within the next week
> 
> ...


Your EQ is interesting!  Graphing that bud on my rig would suggest something eerily close to your EQ!  Depending on fit of course, but with it sitting in the rig the way I want it, that would be very close to what I would do.  I personally wouldn’t boost the bass as all just for sake of the bud, but technically speaking, you should have a great sounding bud with thatEQ.


----------



## Ronion (Jul 27, 2022)

gordonli said:


> ah, I apologise, I dont think my filter settings will work outside of EAPO now that I have a look at the documentation. the GEQ implementation of EAPO does not appear to be standard, and no BW value for a PEQ. I may have a closer look later as I am not very clued in on filter design
> 
> edit: also I wonder does anyone else's LBBS have a sharp notch like mine at 9.5khz? you can see how I compensated for it in EQ. would be interested to know what the unit variation is like


i also wouldn’t EQ the sharp notch.  Speakers at 30 degrees from your head should have a notch around there if measured in ear.  So I’d just leave it.  Many people believe it will image better hat way.  It will have less sibilants, but also less perceived detail (if left alone).


----------



## gordonli

Ronion said:


> i also wouldn’t EQ the sharp notch.  Speakers at 30 degrees from your head should have a notch around there if measured in ear.  So I’d just leave it.  Many people believe it will image better hat way.  It will have less sibilants, but also less perceived detail (if left alone).


thanks, thats interesting, I will try that!

also (and i doubt it) if anyone really wants that eq I can do this to convert to a PEQ


----------



## Stenso

Hi Guys, I have been away for a couple of years. I’m looking for some advice on where to go to buy interesting ear buds in Jakarta, if anyone can help I will be grateful.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 29, 2022)

BIG666 said:


> I hope Herry is well!
> 
> We last wrote to each other in February of this year.
> 
> He made two "special" costum (Aiwa HP V99 shell and own drivers and other materials) "CAX V99 Monitor" earphones for me in 2021 and 2022. In my opinion, they sound better than my CAX Black Edition earphones - or any other earphones I own.


What impedance were these home made drivers? I would like to add to the timeline.

2015​Cypherus Audio (CAX; Cy-Ax) CampFred; 32Ω (aka CF1; retuned Advanced Earbuds made by Herry Widjaya; Indonesia)​
2016​*Cypherus Audio (CAX) CAX Black Edition v1 v2; 32Ω* (mid & late 2016 upgrades of CF1; only eight pairs were made by Herry Widjaya; Indonesia)​*Cypherus Audio (CAX) Cardas Golden Reference; 32Ω* (an early 2016 model aka CAX Gold; only two pair were made by Herry Widjaya; Indonesia)​Cypherus Audio (CAX) QFred; 70Ω (retuned Advanced Earbuds made by Herry Widjaya; Indonesia)​
2017​Cypherus Audio (CAX) Blue Darth; 30Ω (retuned Advanced Earbuds made by Herry Widjaya; Indonesia)​Cypherus Audio (CAX) Campfred v2; 32Ω (retuned Advanced Earbuds made by Herry Widjaya; Indonesia)​Cypherus Audio (CAX) CAX Red Dragon; 32Ω (hand-made driver by Herry Widjaya; Indonesia)​
2018​Cypherus Audio (CAX) Crescendo; 32Ω (made by Herry Widjaya; Indonesia)​*Cypherus Audio (CAX) White CampFred Limited Edition; 32Ω* (hand-made driver; only a few pair were made by Herry Widjaya; Indonesia)​Cypherus Audio (CAX) Zoomfred; 32Ω (aka Baby Red Dragon; hand-made driver by Herry Widjaya; Indonesia)​Cypherus Audio (CAX) Zoomfred Pro; 32Ω (w/ cryo-copper cable; hand-made driver by Herry Widjaya; Indonesia)​​2021​Cypherus Audio (CAX) V99 Monitor; ~32Ω (Modded Aiwa HP V99 shell w/ hand-made driver by Herry Widjaya; Indonesia)​


----------



## Plancu

samandhi said:


> Three words: Neutron, UAPP, Hiby. All of those apps have amazing DSP for portable (Neutrom being my favorite). And yes Neutron can boost to infinity, though you obviously wouldn't want that.


How can Neutron boost to infinity ? I mean normal 16bit flacs / mp3s all have the digital 16bit limit and you can't boost anything passed that. Unless, of course, reduce the rest of the frequencies.


----------



## BIG666

WoodyLuvr said:


> What impedance were these home made drivers? I would like to add to the timeline.
> 
> 2015​Cypherus Audio X (CAX; Cy-Ax) CampFred; 32Ω (aka CF1; retuned Advanced Earbuds made by Henry Widjaya; Indonesia)​
> 2016​*Cypherus Audio (CAX) CAX Black Edition v1 v2; 32Ω* (mid & late 2016 upgrades of CF1; only eight pairs were made by Henry Widjaya; Indonesia)​*Cypherus Audio (CAX) Cardas Golden Reference; 32Ω* (an early 2016 model aka CAX Gold; only two pair were made by Henry Widjaya; Indonesia)​Cypherus Audio (CAX) QFred; 70Ω (retuned Advanced Earbuds made by Henry Widjaya; Indonesia)​
> ...


I'm sorry, unfortunately I don't know the impedance value ....


----------



## Black-Wolf

Just received my Yinman 600. I just briefly tested with a non optimal source (m'y E1DA 9038D dongle) and it already sounds fantastic. Very warm, fantastic bass for a pair of buds, and timbres are quite exceptionnel.

Volume is enough with the dongle (at m'y usual listening volule, still have more than more than 15db of headroom until max), but i'll test it with a higher voltage device (my DIY Objective 2, my RSA HR2 or my Garage 1217 Sunrise)..should be even better!
For now i already love them, i'll do a complete review with a more serious amping.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

BIG666 said:


> I'm sorry, unfortunately I don't know the impedance value ....


No worries. Volume wise which of your other earbuds in your collection are the closest?


----------



## samandhi

Plancu said:


> How can Neutron boost to infinity ? I mean normal 16bit flacs / mp3s all have the digital 16bit limit and you can't boost anything passed that. Unless, of course, reduce the rest of the frequencies.


In software, anything is possible... 

Keep in mind that this IS all in software DSP, and as long as it is PCM, then any/all sort(s) of processing can be done to a file before it hits the DAC (making it still in the digital realm). In Neutron's case, for instance, PCM files can be set up to be useable as 32bit or 64bit files before being sent out (for DSP processing purposes). Heck, you can even convert to DSD on the fly before ever reaching the DAC (which most all contemporary DACs convert to DSD anyhow, unless it is a R2R DAC). Also keep in mind that EQ/PEQ is using pre-gain (which is the dB level input BEFORE the amp section). So it really is more up to the player's and software's capabilities rather than the file being used in that case. It is not, after all, writing this value to the file, or changing the actual binary file itself, only the processing being done to the chain (replay gain is another story). 

Seriously though, I am not aware of how this algorithm is being accomplished, I only know that I have done it by accident. I was trying to boost the sub-bass a little one time by +2dB, but accidentally hit the two three times: thus +222dB. Well, it is a good thing that AGP (auto gain protection) kicked in or it would have probably been fairly bad for my ears. It basically set the AGP so low that I could barely hear the (distorted) sound until I reset. 

That being said, with my Yincrow RW3000, I have an EQ profile for it that adds a +14dB low shelf to 32K, and it works a treat (it really needs that much to become audible because it REALLY is rolled off that much down that low). There is no clipping, and I am able to add some much needed sub bass to complete the sound that otherwise is fantastic...


----------



## samandhi

Black-Wolf said:


> Just received my Yinman 600. I just briefly tested with a non optimal source (m'y E1DA 9038D dongle) and it already sounds fantastic. Very warm, fantastic bass for a pair of buds, and timbres are quite exceptionnel.
> 
> Volume is enough with the dongle (at m'y usual listening volule, still have more than more than 15db of headroom until max), but i'll test it with a higher voltage device (my DIY Objective 2, my RSA HR2 or my Garage 1217 Sunrise)..should be even better!
> For now i already love them, i'll do a complete review with a more serious amping.


Fantastic! I experienced the same thing with my Nutube amp card in my DX300 (400 mW max), and while it DID have plenty of volume, it sounded flat compared to the Amp12 card (2W). Now, if I had not heard the higher powered amp card, I would probably have been happy with the lower powered one, but wow @WoodyLuvr was correct, these NEED power to sound their best, and DO scale VERY well. 

Do let us know your thoughts on them when you get some more time with them?! Also (I am curious), did you get the really nice box, or the raw wood box with no labeling (other than a sticker). And did you get a (puck style) carry case with them?


----------



## Danneq

BIG666 said:


> I hope Herry is well!
> 
> We last wrote to each other in February of this year.
> 
> He made two "special" costum (Aiwa HP V99 shell and own drivers and other materials) "CAX V99 Monitor" earphones for me in 2021 and 2022. In my opinion, they sound better than my CAX Black Edition earphones - or any other earphones I own.


I'm glad to hear that! I did not contact him directly but thought it was strange that the head fier who contacted me did not get a reply from Herry. Also that Herry has not updated the Cypherus Facebook page for a long time.

By the way, I went back to e earphone in Akihabara yesterday and bought second hand pairs of Moondrop Chaconne and Liebesleid. I already owned and sold the Liebesleid in 2018, but thought I wanted to give it a new try. 26 000 Yen for both pairs is pretty good (Tax free). They have some tiny cosmetic damages but other than that are in good condition.


----------



## Ronion

Danneq said:


> I'm glad to hear that! I did not contact him directly but thought it was strange that the head fier who contacted me did not get a reply from Herry. Also that Herry has not updated the Cypherus Facebook page for a long time.
> 
> By the way, I went back to e earphone in Akihabara yesterday and bought second hand pairs of Moondrop Chaconne and Liebesleid. I already owned and sold the Liebesleid in 2018, but thought I wanted to give it a new try. 26 000 Yen for both pairs is pretty good (Tax free). They have some tiny cosmetic damages but other than that are in good condition.


Akihabara is the most wondrous place on the planet.


----------



## Danneq

Ronion said:


> Akihabara is the most wondrous place on the planet.


My wife doesn't like Akihabara, and thinks it's a place for otaku, but yesterday she and our 2 kids went along and all had a good time. The only time they complained was when I was at e earphone listening to the Moondrop earbuds and then buying them. It took a bit too long for them...


----------



## samandhi

Danneq said:


> My wife doesn't like Akihabara, and thinks it's a place for otaku, but yesterday she and our 2 kids went along and all had a good time. The only time they complained was when I was at e earphone listening to the Moondrop earbuds and then buying them. It took a bit too long for them...


You made a really good purchase IMHO.


----------



## Danneq

samandhi said:


> You made a really good purchase IMHO.


I am pleasantly surprised at Chaconne and want to compare them to the earbuds I've got in Sweden. Liebesleid was not my ideal sound signature but I want to give them a new chance.
I brought Simphonio Dragon 2+ and DQSM Turandot with me to Japan. Would like to bring a pair of Cypherus earbuds but I'm becoming more and more careful with earbuds that are rare and only use them at home. About 10 years ago when I was more active on Head fi, I used to collect vintage Sony and Aiwa earbuds. One day when I was out with a pair of E484, one driver just suddenly died and could not be fixed. That experience made me very careful (and I later sold all vintage earbuds).


----------



## samandhi

Danneq said:


> I am pleasantly surprised at Chaconne and want to compare them to the earbuds I've got in Sweden. Liebesleid was not my ideal sound signature but I want to give them a new chance.
> I brought Simphonio Dragon 2+ and DQSM Turandot with me to Japan. Would like to bring a pair of Cypherus earbuds but I'm becoming more and more careful with earbuds that are rare and only use them at home. About 10 years ago when I was more active on Head fi, I used to collect vintage Sony and Aiwa earbuds. One day when I was out with a pair of E484, one driver just suddenly died and could not be fixed. That experience made me very careful (and I later sold all vintage earbuds).


That is one reason I am most careful with the Chaconne. Having a fixed cable, and being built like a tank would make it very hard to work on. I am already having imbalance issues with mine (probably due to cable judging from (mis)coloration). I still find them a fantastic listen with the right music. 

I have not ever heard the Liebesleid (before my time back with buds). I wonder how similar to the Chaconne they are?!


----------



## Stevehamny

gordonli said:


> thanks, thats interesting, I will try that!
> 
> also (and i doubt it) if anyone really wants that eq I can do this to convert to a PEQ


I'd be interested to see the PEQ if it's not too much trouble! 

(Although actually, when I copy your settings into Peace, as you suggest, I just get a very low volume sound that, when turned up, is very buzzy. I'm probably doing something wrong...)


----------



## samandhi

Stevehamny said:


> I'd be interested to see the PEQ if it's not too much trouble!
> 
> (Although actually, when I copy your settings into Peace, as you suggest, I just get a very low volume sound that, when turned up, is very buzzy. I'm probably doing something wrong...)


Sounds like one of the numbers is too high and it is clipping/distorting.


----------



## gordonli (Jul 28, 2022)

Stevehamny said:


> I'd be interested to see the PEQ if it's not too much trouble!
> 
> (Although actually, when I copy your settings into Peace, as you suggest, I just get a very low volume sound that, when turned up, is very buzzy. I'm probably doing something wrong...)



If you have Peace then the GEQ is better, more powerful than the PEQ. I think you did it right but just check the screenshots below.


Spoiler: GEQ through Peace













I should mention I set a default -0.2dB preamp to avoid clipping Windows Climiter (some recommend deeper to avoid intersample peaks in DAC but with this EQ profile thats not going to happen as music has barely any energy at 20hz).

If buzzing, maybe your amp distorts audibly. In that case try this which will give you 11dB. Any better?


Spoiler: LBBS EQ to 30hz





```
GraphicEQ: 30 0; 35 -4; 40 -6; 50 -7; 60 -9.5; 70 -9.5; 100 -14; 200 -13; 300 -12; 700 -11; 1000 -14.5; 1500 -15.5; 2000 -22.5; 2700 -22; 3000 -21; 3500 -20; 4000 -20.5; 5500 -20.5; 6000 -18; 6500 -17.5; 7000 -16; 7500 -15; 8000 -12; 8500 -8; 9000 -7; 9500 -1.5; 9750 0; 10000 -4; 12000 -13; 13000 -12.5; 13600 -12; 14000 -12; 15000 -11; 16000 -7;
```


----------



## Black-Wolf

samandhi said:


> Fantastic! I experienced the same thing with my Nutube amp card in my DX300 (400 mW max), and while it DID have plenty of volume, it sounded flat compared to the Amp12 card (2W). Now, if I had not heard the higher powered amp card, I would probably have been happy with the lower powered one, but wow @WoodyLuvr was correct, these NEED power to sound their best, and DO scale VERY well.
> 
> Do let us know your thoughts on them when you get some more time with them?! Also (I am curious), did you get the really nice box, or the raw wood box with no labeling (other than a sticker). And did you get a (puck style) carry case with them?



To answer your question, i had the raw box with the little carry case in it. Not a fantastic packaging but i've seen worse (i'm looking at you, Shozy!)

I've run some tests with my desktop rig (Topping E50 as dac, and RSA HR2 OR Garage 1217 Sunrise hybrid AMP) and...whaaao, it rocks....
Works very well with the HR2 (an old but trusty solid state AMP by Ray Samuels with plenty of power), and i think it is even better with the hybrid amp.

I dont want to write a hasty review, i need some time to listen to them in détails but i'll very impressed by the bass, and the timbres.
I listen to a lot of metal, quite complex sometimes, and the level of détails is amont the best i've heard on buds. And they are not agressive at all.
They are on my top 2 (with the Newbsound 32 Pro), above the Shozy BK and Dqsm Turandot, all of them being TOTL buds that i like a lot.


----------



## Sam L

gordonli said:


> thanks, thats interesting, I will try that!
> 
> also (and i doubt it) if anyone really wants that eq I can do this to convert to a PEQ


autoeq does wonders. I've not had any time to continue experimenting but here's a thread of my work.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbud-target-curve-tests.944006/


----------



## Stevehamny

gordonli said:


> If you have Peace then the GEQ is better, more powerful than the PEQ. I think you did it right but just check the screenshots below.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: GEQ through Peace
> ...



Thank you for following up on this! You've already gone above and beyond, and really I was just curious about how this would sound on the LBBS, which was my gateway drug into earbuds. I still listen to them mostly at night as my indestructible sleep/comfort set. Your visual does confirm that I'm using Peace in the right way, but even your second set of values cuts the volume down significantly. I have to then crank the volume back up (and I mean crank), and that's where I get the buzz on the BTR5. Interestingly, I don't get the buzz on the Dragonfly Red, and double-interestingly, the cranked up result actually sounds pretty good!  

So still a puzzle but it's all good. As I said, most of my daytime listening is on other sets, currently the @RikudouGoku Grand Archer 1 (better than anything I've ever had in or around my ears for string music), and I will soon be a @tgx78 customer, too. I've written about my unexpected detour into buds for Classical music over on the hifi forums, but as long as I'm here, I'll say that I've gone back and read this entire thread from the beginning and I really appreciate everyone here!


----------



## Plancu

samandhi said:


> In software, anything is possible...
> 
> Keep in mind that this IS all in software DSP, and as long as it is PCM, then any/all sort(s) of processing can be done to a file before it hits the DAC (making it still in the digital realm). In Neutron's case, for instance, PCM files can be set up to be useable as 32bit or 64bit files before being sent out (for DSP processing purposes). Heck, you can even convert to DSD on the fly before ever reaching the DAC (which most all contemporary DACs convert to DSD anyhow, unless it is a R2R DAC). Also keep in mind that EQ/PEQ is using pre-gain (which is the dB level input BEFORE the amp section). So it really is more up to the player's and software's capabilities rather than the file being used in that case. It is not, after all, writing this value to the file, or changing the actual binary file itself, only the processing being done to the chain (replay gain is another story).
> 
> ...


This makes sense. The secret here being upsampling, the DAC's high-res capacity and the software's ability to take advantage of the DAC's  capabilities. Infinity's still's a stretch, but 15db sound realistic.

my Zishan sounded clipped and distorted when I tried to add a few (more) dbs to the sub-bass, so probably there's something missing software-side. Oh well....


----------



## weexisttocease

Anyone has experience with the Bell-Ti Plus Limited Edition? It's worth the asking price?


----------



## samandhi

Plancu said:


> This makes sense. The secret here being upsampling, the DAC's high-res capacity and the software's ability to take advantage of the DAC's  capabilities. Infinity's still's a stretch, but 15db sound realistic.
> 
> my Zishan sounded clipped and distorted when I tried to add a few (more) dbs to the sub-bass, so probably there's something missing software-side. Oh well....


Well, certainly when thinking of infinity and audible sounds, that isn't possible because of the limits of our ears and (hardware) equipment, but as to the digital realm it might as well be; though you are probably right, it won't actually be infinity (it probably IS finite, just well above useable parameters), but well beyond what is audible (I could still hear it at +222dB though couldn't discern any semblance of music at that point). 

Anyhow, my point was that if you need to do some complex EQ'ing and don't have a PC to hand, Neutron has some of the most advanced DSP on the market.  

BTW, this will work just as well on any (android) phone as it will on a flagship DAP.


----------



## Plancu

Ronion said:


> Any earbud graph that measures like that is measured under conditions that do not make sense for measuring earbuds unfortunately.  All it tells me Is that they either don’t know what they are doing or they are trying to fool potential customers.  Hard to say if they are charlatans or idiots, but either way I have no interest in their products.  Sometimes no information is better.  With that said, you can see where the problem areas are in this bud using those type of graph.  No bud will have flat bass to 20Hz in your ear however.  if a bud was measured correctly and the graph looked like that, it would be a total disaster.  This is why FiiO has regained my respect but posting graphs that will translate well into what you hear.  They had lost my respect after discontinuing the e12 and then A5 (I’m absolutely kidding about losing respect for FiiO ever.  I know they have a business to run.).  I believe Moondrop was posting appropriately done measurements of their better buds for a while.  Not sure if they still do.  If I didn’t learn my job, how could I expect to be paid to do it?  Don’t give these people money.  It only encourages them to remain uneducated and employed in an industry they have no “business“ participating in.  This is my hobby and I have a whole library on transducer design and psychoacoustics written by PhDs.  Anyone making money in this industry should at least know the basics.  Either these guys don’t, or they think that horrible looking graph will get you to give them money.


I think you're just being a tiny bit too harsh. That graph is taken from the product's page. It's marketing. Plain and simple. 
Same as the ubiquitous 20Hz...20Khz, which can be considered a half-truth at most. Especially for buds.

Nobody trusts marketing any longer. This is one of the major reasons why we're here. If producers would be 100% honest with their products, we'd have almost nothing to  talk about. It's also the power of this forum: we have each other to shield ourselves from lies. This is our defense. I know I'd be lost otherwise.
And for headphones, it's pretty straightforward. We've been lied to for so long that we've built natural defenses and just ignore the lies.

But we're not always fortunate enough to detect the marketing.
I was eating a pizza with a beef topping, a few years back. And, while happily chewing, I realized that the tiny "beef" cubes were 
actually made of soy. I looked at the menu. The menu boldly stated "beef topping" (priced accordingly). 
Looked again at the topping... soy taste and texture. I got caught off guard because I didn't expect such blatant lie.
And it happened from a large pizza chain, not the pizzeria at the corner of the street. 

Be aware of marketing you don't expect. That's the most dangerous.
I've read something that still gives me the chills. Please look over the CT section of this article :
It seems that companies producing CT machines keep their radiation dose low by the power of .... marketing. 
There are a lot of pamphlets about how safe x-ray and CT machines are. That's just marketing. 
Saddest thing is that nobody questions those measurements. Radiation is painless. Nobody even thinks those CT machines could be dangerous for your health and you can go back from a full body CT scan with brand-new cancer cells. 

I guide myself by the following rule: If there's a product spec that can't be (easily) measured, then it's probably fake.

On the other hand, some producers can't afford to be honest while all the other ones are lying. Not all the buyers are knowledgeable like the users on this forum. and for them specs matter.
Just look at the contrast ratios for normal TVs. Any real figure would be so low in comparison, normal buyers won't even consider such a TV. 
Just like the TV wall at brick and mortar stores. Any TV that doesn't look their brightest on the wall will not be a success no matter how good it is otherwise.
Even if the universe around us is not as bright as a supernovae(ok, ok, some exceptions are true: actual supernovae).
Think of it the other way: You're fortunate enough to afford the luxury of being honest. That's an amazing feat.

But I do see your point. Marketing is bothering me too... Quite a lot. I've developed a sensitivity to screens(computer and otherwise) 
due to probably just sitting for too long in front of them. 
I'd love for screen producers to just show accurate(ish) measurements of how much eye-strain their products create. But that's probably never going to happen. 
They're not even giving us any kind of information of the brand/type of the ever-brighter white LEDs they use.

Bottom line: Our existing process is amazing: Somebody sees a new pair of headphones that looks interesting to the eye. Someone else orders them. Then posts a couple of impressions, determining others to try them. This is how we discovered great pairs of buds. This is how we poured our money into deserving headphones. Any pair that was overpriced and/or subpar was quickly dismissed.


----------



## samandhi

Plancu said:


> This makes sense. The secret here being upsampling, the DAC's high-res capacity and the software's ability to take advantage of the DAC's  capabilities. Infinity's still's a stretch, but 15db sound realistic.
> 
> my Zishan sounded clipped and distorted when I tried to add a few (more) dbs to the sub-bass, so probably there's something missing software-side. Oh well....


You know? I got to thinking about your original statement, and in some ways you are correct. What I mean is that "system wide" EQ or any EQ that uses android libraries, are REALLY limited. Where I was coming into this was that this doesn't hold true for some apps that have built-in EQ (Neutron, Hiby, UAPP, Mango, FiiO, etc...). The rules aren't totally the same for some of those apps as they have their own driver (to bypass android libraries and limitations), and algorithms, etc...

Sorry for to death....


----------



## gordonli

Stevehamny said:


> Thank you for following up on this! You've already gone above and beyond, and really I was just curious about how this would sound on the LBBS, which was my gateway drug into earbuds. I still listen to them mostly at night as my indestructible sleep/comfort set. Your visual does confirm that I'm using Peace in the right way, but even your second set of values cuts the volume down significantly. I have to then crank the volume back up (and I mean crank), and that's where I get the buzz on the BTR5. Interestingly, I don't get the buzz on the Dragonfly Red, and double-interestingly, the cranked up result actually sounds pretty good!


Glad to hear it. Unfortunate about the volume but it does take a hit when you boost freqs (you can as @Ronion suggested not boost 9.5khz, and also reduce subbass).  


Stevehamny said:


> I will soon be a @tgx78 customer, too. I've written about my unexpected detour into buds for Classical music over on the hifi forums, but as long as I'm here, I'll say that I've gone back and read this entire thread from the beginning and I really appreciate everyone here!


Ive read and enjoyed your post haha, I think on Rikus thread. Also did you say youve read the entire this thread!


----------



## gordonli

Sam L said:


> autoeq does wonders. I've not had any time to continue experimenting but here's a thread of my work.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbud-target-curve-tests.944006/


interesting stuff. Ive tried variouss targets with IEMs but always end up to some degree going by ear


----------



## samandhi

gordonli said:


> interesting stuff. Ive tried variouss targets with IEMs but always end up to some degree going by ear


I think I start out with my eyes, but always end up with my ears also...


----------



## Stevehamny

gordonli said:


> Ive read and enjoyed your post haha, I think on Rikus thread. Also did you say youve read the entire this thread!



Every...
last...
word.


----------



## samandhi

Stevehamny said:


> Every...
> last...
> word.


Impressive! I only have managed just over half of it.


----------



## Ronion

Plancu said:


> I think you're just being a tiny bit too harsh. That graph is taken from the product's page. It's marketing. Plain and simple.
> Same as the ubiquitous 20Hz...20Khz, which can be considered a half-truth at most. Especially for buds.
> 
> Nobody trusts marketing any longer. This is one of the major reasons why we're here. If producers would be 100% honest with their products, we'd have almost nothing to  talk about. It's also the power of this forum: we have each other to shield ourselves from lies. This is our defense. I know I'd be lost otherwise.
> ...


The only reason I don’t know if it’s marketing is because it looks so bad LOL.  If I was marketing earbuds, I’d at least post some good looking graphs like this one


----------



## samandhi (Jul 28, 2022)

Ronion said:


> The only reason I don’t know if it’s marketing is because it looks so bad LOL.  If I was marketing earbuds, I’d at least post some good looking graphs like this one


If it IS marketing, they aren't doing themselves any favors with that graph are they?


----------



## yaps66

I have been loving the Longyao Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600Ω Limited Edition.  These buds are warm for sure but they give me such a lovely warm enveloping feeling and I am loving it! They only other "headphone" that has given me such a feeling is the UM Mest Indigo. I am still burning in the Yinman and am looking forward to seeing how these develop!


----------



## samandhi (Jul 28, 2022)

yaps66 said:


> I have been loving the Longyao Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600Ω Limited Edition.  These buds are warm for sure but they give me such a lovely warm enveloping feeling and I am loving it! They only other "headphone" that has given me such a feeling is the UM Mest Indigo. I am still burning in the Yinman and am looking forward to seeing how these develop!


Look forward to hearing more from you about these.

I have had mine for a few weeks now, and I STILL am in love with them!

Edit: OH! What are you driving them with? And congratulations ....


----------



## gordonli

Has anyone heard both Yinman 600 and Toneking TO600 and can share impressions please? Im in the market


----------



## samandhi

gordonli said:


> Has anyone heard both Yinman 600 and Toneking TO600 and can share impressions please? Im in the market


I have not, sorry.


----------



## samandhi

gordonli said:


> Has anyone heard both Yinman 600 and Toneking TO600 and can share impressions please? Im in the market


About the Toneking, HungryPanda said "In a word - Lovely" 
And:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-toneking-discussion-lounge.914904/post-15181861

And as you have seen about the Yinman, several people on here really like these alot also, but I haven't seen any comparisons, or even any reviews to speak of (for either of them for that matter). @WoodyLuvr will know..


----------



## yaps66

samandhi said:


> Look forward to hearing more from you about these.
> 
> I have had mine for a few weeks now, and I STILL am in love with them!
> 
> Edit: OH! What are you driving them with? And congratulations ....


I have tried them with different sources.  They sound good straight out of my Lenovo ThinkPad, better out of my M7 and the best out of my Topping D70s/Singxer SA1 or Topping  D70s/Aune X7s.  These babies scale so well and will reward you with power.  Sublime!


----------



## samandhi (Jul 28, 2022)

yaps66 said:


> I have tried them with different sources.  They sound good straight out of my Lenovo ThinkPad, better out of my M7 and the best out of my Topping D70s/Singxer SA1 or Topping  D70s/Aune X7s.  These babies scale so well and will reward you with power.  Sublime!


I'll bet they do?! It has been much the same with me, going from lesser power to more power. I think, now that I am used to them, I might do some foam "rolling". Gonna' try the Heigi foams next and see how that goes. I think the stock foams are thin, unless I miss my guess.

I really didn't think much of the cable in the beginning, but I have to say it has grown on me. That's not to say I like it any better, but it has just never gotten in the way or drawn adverse attention (like tangling, and etc...). It stays in the background (which makes it pretty good after all). 

I'm certainly surprised at just HOW good they still sound out of very little power. That's not to say that I won't be feeding these monsters some power, they just crave it... LOL

Edit: BTW! Off topic a bit, but looking at your gear, you have the CRA. You really SHOULD try the CRA+. They are just that much different than the CRA, while still having the CRA DNA (though I still like the OG CRA in a lot of situations).  /end off topic


----------



## yaps66

samandhi said:


> I'll bet they do?! It has been much the same with me, going from lesser power to more power. I think, now that I am used to them, I might do some foam "rolling". Gonna' try the Heigi foams next and see how that goes. I think the stock foams are thin, unless I miss my guess.
> 
> I really didn't think much of the cable in the beginning, but I have to say it has grown on me. That's not to say I like it any better, but it has just never gotten in the way or drawn adverse attention (like tangling, and etc...). It stays in the background (which makes it pretty good after all).
> 
> ...


+1 on the cable. At first my feeling was "meh" but it is not too bad.  It is a little microphonic though so wish I could cable roll.  The other thing is that my right ear aches a little with it after a few hours of use but nothing too bad.

Thanks for the rec on the CRA+. Have just purchased!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 29, 2022)

gordonli said:


> Has anyone heard both Yinman 600 and Toneking TO600 and can share impressions please? Im in the market


My personal opinion: hands down the *Longyao-Yinman龙谣音曼 2.0 600 Limited Edition*.

To be completely honest the Toneking TO600 has been a polarizing earbud on this thread... many have liked it (@HungryPanda, @FranQL, @davjac84) and just as many have not liked it (myself, @seanc1441, @Alex.Grimm). We all have different ears and listening preferences (tastes).

I didn't think there was anything special about the *Toneking (MrZ - MusicMaker) TO600*. It was not bad sounding or anything like that... just nothing remarkable about it. The bass roll off is very noticeable on these... it happens somewhere in the mid to sub bass region but they do make up for it with super emphasized upper-mid to upper bass frequencies due to their being of semi-closed back design. Though this semi-closed back design does come with it's drawbacks: their signature can be a little aggressive and harsh sounding in the upper mids for certain listeners. Their staging is a little "narrow" sounding. And they exhibit noticeable bass bleed into the midrange. Nonetheless, they are very warm and pleasant sounding earbuds. Probably perfect for acoustic music and perhaps certain vocal heavy genres.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 29, 2022)

Danneq said:


> Great summary of the Cypherus earbuds!
> 
> I have not heard from Herry since before the corona pandemic. I hope he's okay. He used to send a short e-mail when he was working on something new. I last heard from him in 2019. In 2018 we met at e-earphone in Akihabara in Tokyo, Japan. That's when I bought my pair of Zoomfred and got to listen to the White Campfred.
> 
> ...





BIG666 said:


> I hope Herry is well!
> 
> We last wrote to each other in February of this year.
> 
> He made two "special" costum (Aiwa HP V99 shell and own drivers and other materials) "CAX V99 Monitor" earphones for me in 2021 and 2022. In my opinion, they sound better than my CAX Black Edition earphones - or any other earphones I own.





Danneq said:


> I'm glad to hear that! I did not contact him directly but thought it was strange that the head fier who contacted me did not get a reply from Herry. Also that Herry has not updated the Cypherus Facebook page for a long time.


I have been in contact with Herry and he is well... just busy with other business and family-life. Currently, he and I are finalizing the details of a special commission mod project that will take some time due to his busy schedule. I will surely keep you all posted.


----------



## FranQL

WoodyLuvr said:


> My personal opinion: hands down the *Longyao-Yinman龙谣音曼 2.0 600 Limited Edition*.
> 
> To be completely honest the Toneking TO600 has been a polarizing earbud on this thread... many have liked it (@HungryPanda, @FranQL, @davjac84) and just as many have not liked it (myself, @seanc1441, @Alex.Grimm). We all have different ears and listening preferences (tastes).
> 
> I didn't think there was anything special about the *Toneking (MrZ - MusicMaker) TO600*. It was not bad sounding or anything like that... just nothing remarkable about it. The bass roll off is very noticeable on these... it happens somewhere in the mid to sub bass region but they do make up for it with super emphasized upper-mid to upper bass frequencies due to their being of closed-back design. Though this closed-back design does come with it's drawbacks: their signature can be a little aggressive and harsh sounding in the upper mids for certain listeners. Their staging is a little "narrow" sounding. And they exhibit noticeable bass bleed into the midrange. Nonetheless, they are very warm and pleasant sounding earbuds. Probably perfect for acoustic music and perhaps certain vocal heavy genres.



Good!!!! the stock sound on these isn't bad, it's kind of bright which makes them useless to me for long listening sessions and they were mercilessly stripped. Know that TO600 is a 500 ohm driver + a resistor, the design is not closed, it has a large opening at 6 o'clock


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> I have been in contact with Herry and he is well... just busy with other business and family-life. Currently, he and I are finalizing the details of a special commission mod project that will take some time due to his busy schedule. I will surely keep you all posted.


oooh, a mod project. Sounds cool!


----------



## samandhi

FranQL said:


> Good!!!! the stock sound on these isn't bad, it's kind of bright which makes them useless to me for long listening sessions and they were mercilessly stripped. Know that TO600 is a 500 ohm driver + a resistor, the design is not closed, it has a large opening at 6 o'clock


So, not a true 600 ohm bud is what you're saying? Interesting.


----------



## FranQL (Jul 29, 2022)

samandhi said:


> So, not a true 600 ohm bud is what you're saying? Interesting.



This trick is used by some other manufacturer


----------



## samandhi

FranQL said:


> This happens with most brands....


I wonder how much resistance they actually add to some of the higher impedance buds?! Because one of the attractions of having higher impedance drivers is that they are more accurate and have better resolution overall (comparatively speaking).


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 29, 2022)

FranQL said:


> Good!!!! the stock sound on these isn't bad, it's kind of bright which makes them useless to me for long listening sessions and they were mercilessly stripped. Know that TO600 is a 500 ohm driver + a resistor, the design is not closed, it has a large opening at 6 o'clock


My mistake I meant to type *semi-closed back* (due to position of this single vent and close proximity to the driver, although large, it is not as open as other earbud designs in similar shell types/designs). Thank you for the correction. I have edited my post.


----------



## FranQL (Jul 29, 2022)

samandhi said:


> I wonder how much resistance they actually add to some of the higher impedance buds?! Because one of the attractions of having higher impedance drivers is that they are more accurate and have better resolution overall (comparatively speaking).


I have edited, the translator played a trick on me, looked like a general comment and it is not like that


----------



## samandhi

FranQL said:


> I have edited, the translator played a trick on me, I wanted a general comment and it is not like that


OK, gotcha'. Danged language barriers...


----------



## samandhi

So @WoodyLuvr What was the very first consumer earbud ever? Was is a Sony? Also was it available for purchase or was it bundled with some device (like they used to predominately do)? Just curious to know such things.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 29, 2022)

FranQL said:


> Good!!!! the stock sound on these isn't bad, it's kind of bright which makes them useless to me for long listening sessions and they were mercilessly stripped. Know that TO600 is a 500 ohm driver + a resistor, the design is not closed, it has a large opening at 6 o'clock


Indeed these can be very fatiguing for me as well like their cousins the *Toneking (MrZ - MusicMaker) Dendroaspis Viridis "Green Mamba"*. Definitely not for those with sensitive ears.


----------



## gordonli

WoodyLuvr said:


> My personal opinion: hands down the *Longyao-Yinman龙谣音曼 2.0 600 Limited Edition*.
> 
> To be completely honest the Toneking TO600 has been a polarizing earbud on this thread... many have liked it (@HungryPanda, @FranQL, @davjac84) and just as many have not liked it (myself, @seanc1441, @Alex.Grimm). We all have different ears and listening preferences (tastes).
> 
> I didn't think there was anything special about the *Toneking (MrZ - MusicMaker) TO600*. It was not bad sounding or anything like that... just nothing remarkable about it. The bass roll off is very noticeable on these... it happens somewhere in the mid to sub bass region but they do make up for it with super emphasized upper-mid to upper bass frequencies due to their being of semi-closed back design. Though this semi-closed back design does come with it's drawbacks: their signature can be a little aggressive and harsh sounding in the upper mids for certain listeners. Their staging is a little "narrow" sounding. And they exhibit noticeable bass bleed into the midrange. Nonetheless, they are very warm and pleasant sounding earbuds. Probably perfect for acoustic music and perhaps certain vocal heavy genres.





FranQL said:


> Good!!!! the stock sound on these isn't bad, it's kind of bright which makes them useless to me for long listening sessions and they were mercilessly stripped. Know that TO600 is a 500 ohm driver + a resistor, the design is not closed, it has a large opening at 6 o'clock


Thanks guys!! This will surely be helpful to me in choosing a high impedance bud!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 29, 2022)

samandhi said:


> So @WoodyLuvr What was the very first consumer earbud ever? Was is a Sony? Also was it available for purchase or was it bundled with some device (like they used to predominately do)? Just curious to know such things.


Excellent question(s)!

In fact, Sony was not the first company to launch flathead earbuds. They missed it by around five to six months to *Trio-Kenwood Corporation* who first debuted their KH-0.5 in Tokyo in early December 1981 (they were widely available for sale worldwide by the Christmas & New Years holiday period). Although it must be admitted that Sony's mini on-ear clip-on earphones the MDR-E22 and MDR-E33 (the world's first on-ear clip-on earphones and they were tiny!) launched in June 1981 (unofficially previewed and teased as far back as December 1980) must have been highly influential on Trio-Kenwood's KH-0.5's flathead earbud creation and design.

These are the first three (3) earbuds released upon the world:
​Trio-Kenwood KH-0.5 Petitphones; 32Ω (World's 1st Earbud; debuted *December 1981*)​Sony MDR-E252 Nude Fontopia; 18Ω (World's 2nd Earbud; debuted *May/June 1982*) ***​Teac HP-30 Stereo Cutie Headphones; 32Ω (World's 3rd Earbud; debuted *June 1982*)​
All of these early Golden Ear earbud models from 1981 until 1983/4 were sold separately as stand-alone accessories (products). Audio devices at the time were only bundled with on-ear headsets... you know those terrible hair-pulling, ear-nipping, razor thin metal and plastic head bands that would break if you even looked at them the wrong way.

If I am not mistaken, the first bundled earbuds were Sony's 1984 MDR-E242 Nude Turbo (18Ω) which were bundled with a few of their very top-tier audio devices as an option. However, mainstream earbud bundling didn't go into full effect until 1985 after Sony released and bundled the Sony MDR-E222 Nude Turbo 12 (16Ω) with a good number of their Walkman and radio devices across all pricing tiers. Other audio companies quickly followed suit immediately thereafter with their own bundled models.

** *Although Sony's first stereo flathead earbud ear receiver, the MDR-E252, debuted in May/June 1982, it was actually Sony's highly influential predecessors, the monaural/stereo clip-on ear hook ear receivers, the MDR-E22 and MDR-E33 (the world's first clip-on on-ear earphones utilizing 23mm diameter dome-type drivers), that officially launched the MDR-E Series a year earlier in June 1981.​


----------



## nymz

​
Today I bring you something different. Instead of IEMs or sources, I'll be covering the best earbud I've ever had the chance to try and I figured it would match this thread.

In fact, stratch that. *Serratus *is one of the best transducers I've ever heard and everyone knows I'm a picky one. Oh and did I mention that it is built by one of our own head-fiers, @tgx78?

Hope you enjoy the reading as much as I enjoyed hearing these.


----------



## yaps66

nymz said:


> ​
> Today I bring you something different. Instead of IEMs or sources, I'll be covering the best earbud I've ever had the chance to try and I figured it would match this thread.
> 
> In fact, stratch that. *Serratus *is one of the best transducers I've ever heard and everyone knows I'm a picky one. Oh and did I mention that it is built by one of our own head-fiers, @tgx78?
> ...


+1 @tgx78 has crazy skills!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

nymz said:


> ​
> Today I bring you something different. Instead of IEMs or sources, I'll be covering the best earbud I've ever had the chance to try and I figured it would match this thread.
> 
> In fact, stratch that. *Serratus *is one of the best transducers I've ever heard and everyone knows I'm a picky one. Oh and did I mention that it is built by one of our own head-fiers, @tgx78?
> ...





yaps66 said:


> +1 @tgx78 has crazy skills!


After reading your posts and that splendidly presented review I am now simply dying to receive my *tgxear Tantalus MMCX* buds!!!


----------



## nymz

WoodyLuvr said:


> After reading your posts and that splendidly presented review I am now simply dying to receive my *tgxear Tantalus MMCX* buds!!!



Guess what I'm wearing right now? Warm up the gear and embrace the journey.


----------



## FranQL

These days VE ZEN SU has fallen into my hands, I think there must be a reference to this Venture Electronics flagship in this thread, a bud that in my scheme of things I never thought I would have the opportunity to hear, mainly due to its price (which I will not go into to value more in this mini opinion) that is very far from my goal to spend on the hobby. Just thank @Charlyro222  that he sent me his game, just because he thought he had to listen to them, I am so impressed by this fact that I can only thank him.

I'm not good at describing sound so it's not a review, my personal taste is quite special so my opinion is just that, my opinion.

I tried SUN DICE, which is quite close or at the same level of the sound that I am looking for, I quite like it. But with this ZEN SU the impressions are quite different. I will not describe anything related to how the construction is, better a photo that looks much clearer than anything I can say (wow, the cable is wonderful, the connector is for the use that it is manufactured in theory, I have used it in equipment humble laptops with the 4.4mm connection).




I measured it with my equipment as a simple way to see what I hear, take it with a grain of salt.



Measured also gives 308 Ohm.

How do they sound? A couple of times while I'm working they've talked to me, and I've tried to take them off like I take off a headphone, just anecdote.

I usually just mark the bad things when I talk about a bud, always, here I have it very difficult, really.
There are no veils, and weaknesses are obscured by the "effortless" feel of this bud, luscious highs and mids, and a truly exceptional low end providing just the warmth needed so it's not boring (which it isn't). at all), the Subbass is the weakest point, it is perceptible and it moves enough air so that we know that it is there, it is not the protagonist. The stage is somewhat above average, there are no tricks or sacrifices of other frequencies to achieve that sensation, and the details appear from all sides of the head, it is a surprising sensation and the brain has to process, very good laterality as well.
I have no problem admitting that it's incredibly good for my ears.

Tuning that is far from the usual low mids, but that does not raise my alarms, nothing is out of the pleasant here IMO, sharp protagonists but they are pleasant in every way, perhaps someone very sensitive may have problems here. The pinna gain that may seem high but is what is necessary to, for example, “feel” the pulsation of an electric guitar string, as if you were playing yourself LOL.

Little more to say, I do not go into complex analysis, I hope it will be useful


----------



## ian91

nymz said:


> ​
> Today I bring you something different. Instead of IEMs or sources, I'll be covering the best earbud I've ever had the chance to try and I figured it would match this thread.
> 
> In fact, stratch that. *Serratus *is one of the best transducers I've ever heard and everyone knows I'm a picky one. Oh and did I mention that it is built by one of our own head-fiers, @tgx78?
> ...



Excellent review. Your tastes in music, or at least test tracks, have always mirrored my own and the way you talk of the technical aspects on this one is incredibly enticing -  so much so that I've placed my order already.

I look forward to sharing my thoughts when it arrives.


----------



## nymz

ian91 said:


> our tastes in music, or at least test tracks, have always mirrored my own



Thanks for the kind words!

Yes, the test tracks are also stuff I regularly listen to or some of my favourites. I'm not a fan of using tracks I don't particulary like since I will have to listen to them over and over again. That means you have great taste too! 

Congratz on your purchase, I hope you enjoy it as much as I do! Looking forward to your impressions!


----------



## Sam L

Stevehamny said:


> Thank you for following up on this! You've already gone above and beyond, and really I was just curious about how this would sound on the LBBS, which was my gateway drug into earbuds. I still listen to them mostly at night as my indestructible sleep/comfort set. Your visual does confirm that I'm using Peace in the right way, but even your second set of values cuts the volume down significantly. I have to then crank the volume back up (and I mean crank), and that's where I get the buzz on the BTR5. Interestingly, I don't get the buzz on the Dragonfly Red, and double-interestingly, the cranked up result actually sounds pretty good!
> 
> So still a puzzle but it's all good. As I said, most of my daytime listening is on other sets, currently the @RikudouGoku Grand Archer 1 (better than anything I've ever had in or around my ears for string music), and I will soon be a @tgx78 customer, too. I've written about my unexpected detour into buds for Classical music over on the hifi forums, but as long as I'm here, I'll say that I've gone back and read this entire thread from the beginning and I really appreciate everyone here!


tgx78 earbuds are TOTL with regard to classical music, even the models (some are experiments) that have been tweaked slightly -- everything he makes is phenomenal for classical music. Every time I rotate between different iems, buds, headphones and come back to a tgx78 model, I am in awe of what I'm hearing. I expect the "novelty" will wear off at some point, but it hasn't so far (after 4 months). 

In my opinion, this achievement is not solely technical -- I think there are plenty of people in this forum who are making technically fantastic buds. But for classical music, it's important for the tuner to know what classical music sounds like, live and in recordings. tgx78 is a classical instrumentalist (violin and I suspect piano as well.) He might deny the proficiency with multiple classical instruments, but don't believe it. He's Korean and Koreans think you have to go to Juilliard before you can claim that you play an instrument. =)  Or, have gotten into Juilliard and passed because the career path is medical school by route of an Ivy league university.


----------



## Sam L

nymz said:


> ​
> Today I bring you something different. Instead of IEMs or sources, I'll be covering the best earbud I've ever had the chance to try and I figured it would match this thread.
> 
> In fact, stratch that. *Serratus *is one of the best transducers I've ever heard and everyone knows I'm a picky one. Oh and did I mention that it is built by one of our own head-fiers, @tgx78?
> ...


Excellent review and mirrors my conclusions with @tgx78 's work. I've heard a couple others moved to tears with the serratus or tantalus, while I didn't cry, I was transfixed for the entire 2nd mvmt of the brendel/rattle rendition of Beethoven's 5th piano concerto. ok... maybe i did shed a tear.


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Excellent question(s)!
> 
> In fact, Sony was not the first company to launch flathead earbuds. They missed it by around five to six months to *Trio-Kenwood Corporation* who first debuted their KH-0.5 in Tokyo in early December 1981 (they were widely available for sale worldwide by the Christmas & New Years holiday period). Although it must be admitted that Sony's mini on-ear clip-on earphones the MDR-E22 and MDR-E33 (the world's first on-ear clip-on earphones and they were tiny!) launched in June 1981 (unofficially previewed and teased as far back as December 1980) must have been highly influential on Trio-Kenwood's KH-0.5's flathead earbud creation and design.
> 
> ...


Trio-Kenwood, as in what we know as just "Kenwood"? Interesting. It seems as though Sony might have already been working on the flathead and was simply beat to the market with those (given how close they were released)? It seems as though Sony is always battling someone for some new innovation (VHS vs. Beta, .mp3 vs .wma, SACD vs DVD-Audio, +many more). 

Yes, I remember those clip-ons very well. They were popular for a time. They remained popular even when BT was a new thing (I still have my "Best buy" house brand of the BT clip-ons). 

Excellent explanation and thank you for sharing your wealth of knowledge on the subject! 


FranQL said:


> These days VE ZEN SU has fallen into my hands, I think there must be a reference to this Venture Electronics flagship in this thread, a bud that in my scheme of things I never thought I would have the opportunity to hear, mainly due to its price (which I will not go into to value more in this mini opinion) that is very far from my goal to spend on the hobby. Just thank @Charlyro222  that he sent me his game, just because he thought he had to listen to them, I am so impressed by this fact that I can only thank him.
> 
> I'm not good at describing sound so it's not a review, my personal taste is quite special so my opinion is just that, my opinion.
> 
> ...


Those look very nice. I have a couple of cables (for headphones) that have that modular connector, though I think the XLR is MUCH smaller (mini XLR) made by a wonderful company here in the US called Hart Audio Cables



Spoiler: Hart Audio modular cable









Excellent mini-review!


----------



## Charlyro222

nymz said:


> ​
> Today I bring you something different. Instead of IEMs or sources, I'll be covering the best earbud I've ever had the chance to try and I figured it would match this thread.
> 
> In fact, stratch that. *Serratus *is one of the best transducers I've ever heard and everyone knows I'm a picky one. Oh and did I mention that it is built by one of our own head-fiers, @tgx78?
> ...



Beautiful review, but for my tastes, a more mid centric vocal music, the way to go is without doubt, his last creation, Tantalus.

On my Top 5.


----------



## SolaVirtus

samandhi said:


> Trio-Kenwood, as in what we know as just "Kenwood"? Interesting. It seems as though Sony might have already been working on the flathead and was simply beat to the market with those (given how close they were released)? It seems as though Sony is always battling someone for some new innovation (VHS vs. Beta, .mp3 vs .wma, SACD vs DVD-Audio, +many more).
> 
> Yes, I remember those clip-ons very well. They were popular for a time. They remained popular even when BT was a new thing (I still have my "Best buy" house brand of the BT clip-ons).
> 
> ...


More support for Hart cables - I use them on most of my full sized headphones. They have a MMXC connection option, too. I don't like it for most IEMs I've tried, but they work with buds better  as long they're not pulling with too much weight and the buds aren't already poorly fitting.


----------



## nymz

Charlyro222 said:


> Beautiful review, but for my tastes, a more mid centric vocal music, the way to go is without doubt, his last creation, Tantalus.
> 
> On my Top 5.



That's coming next. I find Tantalus a bigger puzzle to solve and will spin it during the weekend!


----------



## samandhi

SolaVirtus said:


> More support for Hart cables - I use them on most of my full sized headphones. They have a MMXC connection option, too. I don't like it for most IEMs I've tried, but they work with buds better  as long they're not pulling with too much weight and the buds aren't already poorly fitting.


I think they have pretty much all options covered, and if they don't you can go to their "custom" section and have it made... I really like that they are fairly cheap. I am not one to pay $1k for a stinkin' cable...


----------



## Nicolas from France

Hi. I listen to lot of classical music and would love a flat head earbuds in my collection of IEMs and headphones. What would be the recommendations? Anywhere between 50 and 300€/$.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Nicolas from France said:


> Hi. I listen to lot of classical music and would love a flat head earbuds in my collection of IEMs and headphones. What would be the recommendations? Anywhere between 50 and 300€/$.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16830527


----------



## samandhi

Nicolas from France said:


> Hi. I listen to lot of classical music and would love a flat head earbuds in my collection of IEMs and headphones. What would be the recommendations? Anywhere between 50 and 300€/$.


IMHO (and not counting DIY) for sound quality alone the Moondrop Chaconne are hands-down the classical music king. Honorable mention goes to the Rose Technics Maria II, and DUNU Alpha 1. But keep in mind, there are all sorts of different shapes and sizes, some have detachable cables, There is a questionnaire that you could answer, and that might help others help you better. 


WoodyLuvr said:


> *'THE CHECKLIST' FOR FLATHEAD EARBUD RECOMMENDATION REQUESTS*
> For those looking for a flathead-earbud recommendation from the *Earbuds Round-Up* thread gang, the following data is extremely helpful:
> 
> *budget* _(what are you willing/looking to spend? e.g. price range)_
> ...



My 2¢!


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16830527


LOL beat me to it by 4 minutes...


----------



## Charlyro222 (Jul 29, 2022)

Right now my Top 10 earbuds ranking could be

1.- Ve Zen Su
2-3. Ve Asura Pure White Shinning -  Ve Sun Cooper (Tie)
----------
4.- Ve Zen shinning
5.- Ve Sun dice
6.- FranQL Blackhole 500ohms
7.- TgXear Tantalus
8.- LRey R-09 Forest
9.-Ve Asura Omega Edition
10.-Blur 266R mx150 Special Tuning


------ means a big leap in quality above here

Think that my library is mainly midcentric focused, smooth jazz  with female vocals.


----------



## Ronion

Nicolas from France said:


> Hi. I listen to lot of classical music and would love a flat head earbuds in my collection of IEMs and headphones. What would be the recommendations? Anywhere between 50 and 300€/$.


Do you object to spending less?


----------



## o0genesis0o

Hi folks, I have just bought a Fiio FF3, first flat head after 7 years of headphone and IEMs. I have one silly question: how are these supposed to fit?

I use the included foam to add some friction, but the buds do not seem to stay at one spot. They don’t fall out, but they don’t stay at the sweet spot, if that makes any sense. Is it normal? I’m so tempted to tape these to my ears so they stop shifting around.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 10, 2022)

Charlyro222 said:


> Right now my Top 10 earbuds ranking could be
> 
> 1.- Ve Zen Su
> 2-3. Ve Asura Pure White Shinning -  Ve Sun Cooper (Tie)
> ...


Awesome post! Funny how our tastes are so similar and so different all at the same time!

I don't really like the Zen SU at all and think the Sun Copper and Sun Dice are much better performers. Perhaps due to my preferred music genres but probably more due to my advanced age and hearing loss! LOL!

Here is WoodyLuvr's personal *All-Time Top Ten Flathead Earbuds Ranking List* (not to be confused with my old Earbud God-Tier List... probably should not have even mentioned it due to all the headache/heartache it has caused me). The big surprise for me here is the Berserker 1 which I simply adore and is wonderfully tuned for fun!


----------



## digititus

o0genesis0o said:


> Hi folks, I have just bought a Fiio FF3, first flat head after 7 years of headphone and IEMs. I have one silly question: how are these supposed to fit?
> 
> I use the included foam to add some friction, but the buds do not seem to stay at one spot. They don’t fall out, but they don’t stay at the sweet spot, if that makes any sense. Is it normal? I’m so tempted to tape these to my ears so they stop shifting around.


Totally normal. Stop moving and they will stay in place longer. If it is really bothersome, try hanging the cable over your ear for more stability.


----------



## Charlyro222

WoodyLuvr said:


> Awesome post! Funny how our tastes are so similar and so different all at the same time!
> 
> I don't really like the Zen SU at all and think the Sun Copper and Sun Dice are much better performers. Perhaps due to my preferred music genres but probably more due to my advanced age and hearing loss! LOL!
> 
> ...


Zen Su is a so special earbud, really needs the best amp you can suit, scales a lot and is the difference bettween being a great bud and being the best bud.
For me is the best and is Light Years away from all my other stuff.
I have RikuBuds Grand Rider that didn´t liked at all, not for my tastes.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Hi folks, I have just bought a Fiio FF3, first flat head after 7 years of headphone and IEMs. I have one silly question: how are these supposed to fit?
> 
> I use the included foam to add some friction, but the buds do not seem to stay at one spot. They don’t fall out, but they don’t stay at the sweet spot, if that makes any sense. Is it normal? I’m so tempted to tape these to my ears so they stop shifting around.


Not a silly question at all if you have never tried earbuds before IMO. 

This is really where the magic happens with earbuds. They don't sit tight up against your ear holes. They just sit in your concha; this is the sweet spot. Pressing them into your ears actually kills the sound field for these. You might think differently because you are used to jamming IEMs into your ears though. 

This is where you get the huge sound, much like you would get from an open back headphone (in some cases even more), but in a more natural way. After a while you will forget you have ANYTHING in your ears (BTW that is when you will be hooked like the rest of us). Yes, it sounds sort of funny to begin with, but if you just sit back and listen, you will start to hear the nuances that a good earbud will bring that is totally different than IEMs and headphones. 

No, you won't be rattling your brain with huge bass, but it is all there and after a while it WILL sound pretty big to you (provided your set have good bass for an earbud). Mind you, they aren't for everyone, and if you give them a week or so, and simply can't live with it, you can either try a different pair, or they might not be for you. But I DO encourage you to give them a week or two of exclusive listening to let your brain adjust to the different sort of sound.


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> Not a silly question at all if you have never tried earbuds before IMO.
> 
> This is really where the magic happens with earbuds. They don't sit tight up against your ear holes. They just sit in your concha; this is the sweet spot. Pressing them into your ears actually kills the sound field for these. You might think differently because you are used to jamming IEMs into your ears though.
> 
> ...



I actually trying to avoid hyping and hyperbole statements because I am still trying to nitpick the FF3.  I am surprised to find that the FF3 is as resolving as some top performers in my IEM collection, does not lack bass, and have more expansive soundstage than most IEMs, even the semi open ones like FD5. The center image is strictly in the head, though. Kind of reminds me of the usual “well-tuned” IEMs.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> I actually trying to avoid hyping and hyperbole statements because I am still trying to nitpick the FF3.  I am surprised to find that the FF3 is as resolving as some top performers in my IEM collection, does not lack bass, and have more expansive soundstage than most IEMs, even the semi open ones like FD5. The center image is strictly in the head, though. Kind of reminds me of the usual “well-tuned” IEMs.


I don't know what the FiiO sounds like, but I have some that have a more massive soundstage than HD800's, HD700;s, etc.. But I CAN say you will get that sort of resolution for much less than you would have to pay for flagship IEMs. Find the right pair, and you probably will argue that flagship IEMs can't touch them once you are done listening to them IMHO. Of course, everyone but people like us in here will think you are crazy because how can you get that good of a sound for less than (say) $200, or even less than $50 depending on your preferred sound signature.


----------



## Nicolas from France

Ronion said:


> Do you object to spending less?


Of course not.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Oh my, I completely forgot about my belove Puresounds so I added them to my list... tied at third place with the Yinman 600 and Berserker 1. Then I realized that I might as well list just one more earbud and make it my *All-Time Top 15 Ranking List*!


----------



## nymz

WoodyLuvr said:


> Oh my, I completely forgot about my belove Puresounds so I added them to my list... tied at third place with the Yinman 600 and Berserker 1. Then I realized that I might as well list just one more earbud and make it my *All-Time Top 15 Ranking List*!



You passion is intoxicating. Thanks for your hard (and great) work!


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> I don't know what the FiiO sounds like, but I have some that have a more massive soundstage than HD800's, HD700;s, etc.. But I CAN say you will get that sort of resolution for much less than you would have to pay for flagship IEMs. Find the right pair, and you probably will argue that flagship IEMs can't touch them once you are done listening to them IMHO. Of course, everyone but people like us in here will think you are crazy because how can you get that good of a sound for less than (say) $200, or even less than $50 depending on your preferred sound signature.



I’m super impressed so far. I think I managed to get a good seal now. 

These ear buds are completely useless outdoors or when I need to move around, but lounging around with them is great. I haven’t done enough A/B but I wouldn’t be surprised if an IEM sounding like this FF3 costs a lot.

One more silly question: do I treat the ear bud foams like foam tips? (Throw away after a while) Are they a necessity like ear tips or they are for tuning and comfort?


----------



## FranQL (Jul 30, 2022)

How much activity! and two lists of two people who have tried countless buds! it's great

Although in my case I don't think I deserve to appear in any of them because the only thing I've done is share what I do with some friends, adapting my work to their personal tastes to the extent that I think they suit them and what they like. .

Does anyone imagine this situation?: I received some buds from FranQL and they sound like "fuking cats", no, they are friends and great people who will not do that, so I leave the hype aside.

I don't sell buds either, so I don't have a commercial interest beyond looking for the perfect sound for me, and i get it at a cost as low as you can imagine, beating the brand buds I've bought for a long time (IMO), reading here I affirm that with $200 you have benefits and many, forceful and real.

My list would be something like this:

- VE Zen Su
-DIY
-DIY
-DIY
-DIY

I really like SUN Dice, but IMO my current goal beats that sound or I like it better.

It's great to have a new objective after being amazed by ZEN SU, I've tried and have most of the DIY drivers out there and some that aren't (is that R&D at a loss money?), so I can only imagine getting improve what I havent with exclusive shells or have access to factory drivers (or exclusive to brands) since I am not a musician by profession I will have that limitation and trust my sad ears (just kidding)... the shells thanks to @robar and @Rary who made some wonderful designs and @Setmagic I'll be able to experiment. With custom shell drivers there's nothing to do with that at the moment. Although with the buds I have so far, to say that I am happy is really an understatement.

The goal is always the same, better sound, that's the hobby. I'm glad to see my name on those lists, a lot, but it doesn't make sense, they are only made to listen to music, that sound is ok for me, I won't create upgrades for them, they are already what they should be..... Today's date the gifts I want to make are already created or in creation, and I stop, that I really ruined myself.......


----------



## Setmagic

FranQL said:


> How much activity! and two lists of two people who have tried countless buds! it's great
> 
> Although in my case I don't think I deserve to appear in any of them because the only thing I've done is share what I do with some friends, adapting my work to their personal tastes to the extent that I think they suit them and what they like. .
> 
> ...


In DIY Workroom we done some nice stuff that was develop last times.
Thanks to @robar who design shells with close cooperation and prototyping of @Rary and me.
Best mods from our friends in advanced shell acoustic system.


* *First test are very pleasing and better than MX500 shells now.
They are prototypes still under develop.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> I’m super impressed so far. I think I managed to get a good seal now.
> 
> These ear buds are completely useless outdoors or when I need to move around, but lounging around with them is great. I haven’t done enough A/B but I wouldn’t be surprised if an IEM sounding like this FF3 costs a lot.
> 
> One more silly question: do I treat the ear bud foams like foam tips? (Throw away after a while) Are they a necessity like ear tips or they are for tuning and comfort?


They will after a time errode/fall apart, so yes you will have to replace them from time to time. They are also a necessity for tuning just like tips on IEMs, but also for comfort too. They do add some friction (like you mentioned earlier) to help hold them in your ears better. Think of them as filters. The thicker the foams (or more dense), the less amount of treble energy that will be able to pass through, essentially making them sound more bassy with less treble.... @WoodyLuvr has a nice write-up about such things, I just can't seem to locate it again atm.  

BTW! People used to jog with earbuds in, believe it or not. If you get a good fit, they tend to stay put pretty well (not as good as some good IEMs, but still pretty solid) unless you tug on the cable at all; in those cases it is probably best to use a shirt clip to keep the cable from yanking them out of your ears. Or you could wear them over-ear like an IEM and that will also help, but some buds don't sound very good like this, or won't stay at all like this.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Jul 30, 2022)

samandhi said:


> They will after a time errode/fall apart, so yes you will have to replace them from time to time. They are also a necessity for tuning just like tips on IEMs, but also for comfort too. They do add some friction (like you mentioned earlier) to help hold them in your ears better. Think of them as filters. The thicker the foams (or more dense), the less amount of treble energy that will be able to pass through, essentially making them sound more bassy with less treble.... @WoodyLuvr has a nice write-up about such things, I just can't seem to locate it again atm.
> 
> BTW! People used to jog with earbuds in, believe it or not. If you get a good fit, they tend to stay put pretty well (not as good as some good IEMs, but still pretty solid) unless you tug on the cable at all; in those cases it is probably best to use a shirt clip to keep the cable from yanking them out of your ears. Or you could wear them over-ear like an IEM and that will also help, but some buds don't sound very good like this, or won't stay at all like this.



Thanks for the explanation!

I can’t stop listening to this pair of FF3. So good.

Now I want to moar 

Edit: FF3 sounds wrong when I wear it over ear. I guess it is strictly for indoor, leisure listening for now. I think I’ll use it for zoom as well. Talking with fully sealed ear canals still feels weird to me after all the years


----------



## boromcom

o0genesis0o said:


> Thanks for the explanation!
> 
> I can’t stop listening to this pair of FF3. So good.
> 
> Now I want to moar


I just brought Zen Sun Copper , Asura 3.0 Fe , FF3. Let’s see which one is the best!


----------



## boromcom

Hi all,

New here! What is Zen SU? I can’t see on VE website!


----------



## syazwaned

o0genesis0o said:


> Thanks for the explanation!
> 
> I can’t stop listening to this pair of FF3. So good.
> 
> ...


bro how does ff3 sounds like


----------



## o0genesis0o (Jul 30, 2022)

syazwaned said:


> bro how does ff3 sounds like



More or less like how it graphs. Impressions with the treble foam below:

Lower midrange sounds flat. The ear gain sounds very Harman (it can be shouty on some tracks, but generally correct in terms of tonality). It’s certainly not 15db ear gain like the graph, but there is a correct ear gain for sure.

Now the bass is unexpected. I expected something like ER2SE, because the graph shows flat midbass and significantly rolled off subbass. However, I hear punchy kick drum with some physical sensation in my throat, which only comes from IEMs with strong subbass. I have been jamming to some electronic music. FF3 is no E5000 in terms of bass for sure, but I am surprised at how competent it is.

Soundstage is wider and deeper than usual IEM. It’s kind of reminiscent to FD5 or E5000: upfront center image, but the rest spread out widely. I don’t hear any tuning trick to push the image back like Andromeda and U12t / Trio.

Resolution is surprisingly good. I hear resolving treble, though treble is not loud.

Again, coming from IEMs, I’m shocked by what I am hearing. I think I need more time to nitpick be critical.


----------



## boromcom

o0genesis0o said:


> More or less like how it graphs. Impressions with the treble foam below:
> 
> Lower midrange sounds flat. The ear gain sounds very Harman (it can be shouty on some tracks, but generally correct in terms of tonality). It’s certainly not 15db ear gain like the graph, but there is a correct ear gain for sure.
> 
> ...


+1


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Setmagic said:


> In DIY Workroom we done some nice stuff that was develop last times.
> Thanks to @robar who design shells with close cooperation and prototyping of @Rary and me.
> Best mods from our friends in advanced shell acoustic system.
> 
> ...


Outstanding work gents! Truly inspiring. Between your new prototype shells, *@ValSuki*'s Valphonics Val39 shells, and the hybrid driver prototyping that *@tgx78* is doing with dual-DD and planar + DD designs I think we may enter another renaissance and enlightenment period! Well done all!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

samandhi said:


> @WoodyLuvr has a nice write-up about such things, I just can't seem to locate it again atm.


*All About Flathead Earbud Cushions*

All my links are at the very end of my *F⅃ATHƎAD TIMƎ⅃INƎ* under the *MISCELLANEOUS *section:


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 30, 2022)

boromcom said:


> Hi all,
> 
> New here! What is Zen SU? I can’t see on VE website!


There are several *special models aka editions* that are available "upon request" only... so you need to ask via email (support@veclan.com) or facebook (f.veclan.com ~ facebook.com/groups/52vecn).

Venture Electronics 微翼音频 (VE) Zen Shining Ultra Edition; 320Ω (aka *Zen SU*; ~US$3K)
*@FranQL* just posted a pic of the *VE Zen SU* *here*

*Full VE Flathead Earbuds Timeline*


----------



## boromcom

WoodyLuvr said:


> There are several *special models aka editions* that are available "upon request" only... so you need to ask via email (support@veclan.com) or facebook (f.veclan.com ~ facebook.com/groups/52vecn).
> 
> Venture Electronics 微翼音频 (VE) Zen Shining Ultra Edition; 320Ω (aka *Zen SU*; ~US$3K)
> *@FranQL* just posted a pic of the *VE Zen SU* *here*
> ...


Thank you so much!


----------



## Charlyro222

boromcom said:


> Hi all,
> 
> New here! What is Zen SU? I can’t see on VE website!


Zen Su is not sold on Ve Web, is mandatory to buy as combo with Defiant or being an SVIP.

Cheers.


----------



## Ronion

Nicolas from France said:


> Of course not.


Try the Tingo TG38.  Buy another expensive bud at the same time that someone else recommends.  In a month, let us know what you think.


----------



## SBranson

WoodyLuvr said:


> *All About Flathead Earbud Cushions*
> 
> All my links are at the very end of my *F⅃ATHƎAD TIMƎ⅃INƎ* under the *MISCELLANEOUS *section:


Ha.. I could’ve used this reference a while ago.  Here I thought I was clever for using donuts over regular foams to improve the fit in my big ears and there was the solution all along..  thanks


----------



## SBranson

On another note..  Using @tgx78 ‘s Tantalus model after about a week and a half listening to my headphones only and once again I’m amazed how perfectly they suit my tastes.  It’s a bit disconcerting how good I find these as I honestly think I could sell my headphones and be perfectly happy with these.  I did try the Serratus again as well and these two models trade off strengths over each other but for my music tastes it’s the Tantalus that wins out.  I just can’t get over how great these sound.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Update after listening to FF3 non-stop for many hours yesterday: I think I will not pursue U12t as my summit-fi to round off my IEM collection anymore. 

For lounging around, the sound quality of this FF3 is suffice. Perhaps I will look at a DIY by a reviewer or the upcoming FF5 if I itch for upgrading my flat head ear phones. 

Instead of U12t, I think I will get Symphonium Helios and a pair of Hifiman Arya to round off the collection.

And then I perhaps I can stop looking for the next upgrade to my collection and start reviewing in peace 

I have been thinking about putting one of those new IEM planar driver into a flat head shell. Has anyone tried?


----------



## mt877

o0genesis0o said:


> Update after listening to FF3 non-stop for many hours yesterday: I think I will not pursue U12t as my summit-fi to round off my IEM collection anymore.
> 
> For lounging around, the sound quality of this FF3 is suffice. Perhaps I will look at a DIY by a reviewer or the upcoming FF5 if I itch for upgrading my flat head ear phones.
> 
> ...


I gave my impressions of the FF3 just after I received them. I'm glad someone else has shared their impressions too. While I have other buds which I truly enjoy, I would recommend the FF3 as an excellent all-rounder to anyone getting into buds.


----------



## boromcom

Any recommend dap for earbuds? I’m using M11 plus with Megatron sometimes, ifi Diablo. I used to have SP2000 cu but sold last year. I just come back and try to build the equipment again.


----------



## boromcom

o0genesis0o said:


> Update after listening to FF3 non-stop for many hours yesterday: I think I will not pursue U12t as my summit-fi to round off my IEM collection anymore.
> 
> For lounging around, the sound quality of this FF3 is suffice. Perhaps I will look at a DIY by a reviewer or the upcoming FF5 if I itch for upgrading my flat head ear phones.
> 
> ...


I have Arya and it is beautiful, good sound quality.


----------



## syazwaned

o0genesis0o said:


> More or less like how it graphs. Impressions with the treble foam below:
> 
> Lower midrange sounds flat. The ear gain sounds very Harman (it can be shouty on some tracks, but generally correct in terms of tonality). It’s certainly not 15db ear gain like the graph, but there is a correct ear gain for sure.
> 
> ...



Ah thanks! I have E3k, loving the spacious staging and open bass response, might need to but e5k someday. But for now, FF3 is definitely on my list!


----------



## o0genesis0o

syazwaned said:


> Ah thanks! I have E3k, loving the spacious staging and open bass response, might need to but e5k someday. But for now, FF3 is definitely on my list!



Well, it should be noted that I have zero experience with good ear buds, so maybe this FF3 is just average in the grand scheme of great ear buds. However, from an IEM perspective, these ear buds give me child-like excitement like the first days hearing IEMs. So good that I cannot put down.

E5k is quite a bit better than E3k even though they share drivers and overall tonality. I bought one after having Andromeda because I rather take a hit to resolution to get that sweet bass and dynamic contrast.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Update after listening to FF3 non-stop for many hours yesterday: I think I will not pursue U12t as my summit-fi to round off my IEM collection anymore.
> 
> For lounging around, the sound quality of this FF3 is suffice. Perhaps I will look at a DIY by a reviewer or the upcoming FF5 if I itch for upgrading my flat head ear phones.
> 
> ...


Yeah, like that will ever happen... 

But, sounds like you have a pretty good plan. The Arya are magnafique'


boromcom said:


> Any recommend dap for earbuds? I’m using M11 plus with Megatron sometimes, ifi Diablo. I used to have SP2000 cu but sold last year. I just come back and try to build the equipment again.


Personally, I use the iBasso DX300 (for all my head gear actually). With modular amp cards, it can sound like a whole different DAP just by changing them out (including tube amp).  I would bet the M11 is also a pretty great option.


----------



## Kumonomukou

Ronion said:


> Try the Tingo TG38.  Buy another expensive bud at the same time that someone else recommends.  In a month, let us know what you think.


Worth noting the signature of Tingo. To me, they were clean sounding, somewhat bass light buds, of course this impression traced all the way back to GR07 days. Also don't know how legit those Tingos are nowadays, I remember they used to have Tingo logo on the jack. 

Very little urge to get more wired buds nowadays. Might get intrigued if there's a more technical version of Rose Masya V1. That's one of my favorite designs with decent bass in earbuds.


----------



## baskingshark

boromcom said:


> Any recommend dap for earbuds? I’m using M11 plus with Megatron sometimes, ifi Diablo. I used to have SP2000 cu but sold last year. I just come back and try to build the equipment again.



The Sony A55 is quite a good DAP for earbuds, except for high impedance buds, which it can't drive well.

I liked the A55 so much I bought 2, around $130 each first hand during sales. The stock A55 is meh in sound, but there is a Mr Walkman firmware mod (free) that you can use to unlock the sound. With the firmware mod there are improvements in technicalities and tonality. Battery life is around 32 hours with the firmware mod, and the mod allows unlocking of region (volume lock) and also has 4 different sound signatures to tune the A55 to.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> One more silly question: do I treat the ear bud foams like foam tips? (Throw away after a while) Are they a necessity like ear tips or they are for tuning and comfort?


yeah, they’ll eventually start to crumble and they definitely tune the buds.  In fact, these buds sound better to me with Venture Electronics thin foams and any of the ones FiiO packed.  These buds are definitely worth the money—with the VE foams that is.  None of the FiiO foams worked well for me.  The balanced is too dark and every donut foam has created a weird resonance in my ear on every bud.  The VE foams work very well for me with this one.  Bass is nice…not the best bud I’ve heard in that regard, but it’s at least average in my collection and it’s power handling seems very good for a bud.  Maybe my best.  Soundstage grows with the VE foam, and I’m happy to say that the fit works well for me and I have definitely throw a frisbee with these buds in.  If they weren’t so heavy they’d be better, but these are one of few commercially available that I’ve heard that get my ”thumbs up”.  I don’t know that they are up to the resolution of the Tingo TG38, but they have much beeper bass and a soundstage thats fairly close.  FiiO designed a winner!  The midrange is gold with these foams.  I was surprised how dark they were with the “balanced” foams.  Anyway, that’s my brief take on these.  I’d put these above any M2s pro configuration and definitely the SMABAT ST20 pro.  The LBBs isn’t really in these class and neither is the Vido, the X6, the cheaper FAAAEEEEEL buds… None of them.  These will be in my ears for a long time to come.  Bravo FiiO!  Next time, pack a wider array of foams though.  The DIY commercial buds I own are generally beaten by this as well.  I’d need to check the PK32 against it.  Each will have their strength and weaknesses I’m sure.  I bet the Blur out resolves this one, but this has a larger soundstage (with these foams) and more neutral Frequency Response (again with the VE foams).  The PK32 just lacks pinna gain.


----------



## Ronion (Jul 31, 2022)

Kumonomukou said:


> Worth noting the signature of Tingo. To me, they were clean sounding, somewhat bass light buds, of course this impression traced all the way back to GR07 days. Also don't know how legit those Tingos are nowadays, I remember they used to have Tingo logo on the jack.


that’s pretty much how they sound to me now.  High resolution and soundstage, but no real deep bass to talk about.  They cut off with foams around 100Hz.

He was asking about for classical.  For the most part they are brilliant for that provided we’re not talking about pipe organ.


----------



## Gifting (Jul 31, 2022)

Anyone knows of earbuds that sounds similar to a *Red Vido* or *Qian 39*? I really like both of them, especially the Red Vido (favorite of the colored Vidos). Everything sounds right to me, (soundstage, bass, mids, & highs). These are tuned better, personally, than other more expensive earbuds I have (also including about 4 stock DIY's I have). The only downside to them is the lack of technicalities compared to the more expensive buds.

I listen to these earbuds with stock foam.

If there are earbuds that sound very similar, if not identical to them, with better technicalities, I want to save up to buy them!


----------



## Ronion

Gifting said:


> Anyone knows an earbud that sounds similar to a *Red Vido* or *Qian 39*? I really like both of them, especially the Red Vido (favorite of the colored Vidos). Everything sounds right to me, (soundstage, bass, mids, & highs). These are tuned better, personally, than other more expensive earbuds I have (also including about 4 stock DIY's I have). The only downside to them is the lack of technicalities compared to the more expensive buds.
> 
> I listen to these earbuds with stock foam.
> 
> If there are earbuds that sound very similar, if not identical to them, with better technicalities, I want to save up to buy them!


I think @RikudouGoku was saying he came up with a pair a while back.  When you start getting deeper into buds though, you’ll realize that the Vido can be improved in the frequency response at least as much as in technicalities.  They are just a gateway bud.


----------



## Gifting

Ronion said:


> I think @RikudouGoku was saying he came up with a pair a while back.  When you start getting deeper into buds though, you’ll realize that the Vido can be improved in the frequency response at least as much as in technicalities.  They are just a gateway bud.


Interesting, I'll check the post history for it. Maybe I have messed up ears and have to do A/B tests again. So far I have the Tingo TG 38's, TC200, NiceHCK DIY MX500, Kbear Stellar (worst one), Qian 69, Yincrow X6, 150 Ohm Blue Glue, 32 Ohm N52 Blue Glue, 64 Ohm White Glue, and 64 Ohm N52 Red Rim. But I keep going back to the Red Vido's every so often, though the lack of resolution in comparison is disappointing.


----------



## Ronion

Gifting said:


> Interesting, I'll check the post history for it. Maybe I have messed up ears and have to do A/B tests again. So far I have the Tingo TG 38's, TC200, NiceHCK DIY MX500, Kbear Stellar (worst one), Qian 69, Yincrow X6, 150 Ohm Blue Glue, 32 Ohm N52 Blue Glue, 64 Ohm White Glue, and 64 Ohm N52 Red Rim. But I keep going back to the Red Vido's every so often, though the lack of resolution in comparison is disappointing.


Listen to that TG38 again and 150BG.  They should trounce the Vido.  You can tune them to have the sound balance like the Vido.  They’ll just have much better technicalities.  The Tingo won’t do the bass though.  Both those drivers you’ll have to boost their midbass a lot because their bass is much more resolving and even if they measure alike, the BG and Tingo will sound thinner.


----------



## Gifting

Ronion said:


> Listen to that TG38 again and 150BG.  They should trounce the Vido.  You can tune them to have the sound balance like the Vido.  They’ll just have much better technicalities.  The Tingo won’t do the bass though.  Both those drivers you’ll have to boost their midbass a lot because their bass is much more resolving and even if they measure alike, the BG and Tingo will sound thinner.


Your last sentence is interesting. It may be the lack of resolution that makes the sound "fuller". Sure. I'll do the A/B tests again and report back in a day or so.


----------



## boromcom

samandhi said:


> Yeah, like that will ever happen...
> 
> But, sounds like you have a pretty good plan. The Arya are magnafique'
> 
> Personally, I use the iBasso DX300 (for all my head gear actually). With modular amp cards, it can sound like a whole different DAP just by changing them out (including tube amp).  I would bet the M11 is also a pretty great option.


Thanks!


----------



## jeejack

Gifting said:


> Interesting, I'll check the post history for it. Maybe I have messed up ears and have to do A/B tests again. So far I have the Tingo TG 38's, TC200, NiceHCK DIY MX500, Kbear Stellar (worst one), Qian 69, Yincrow X6, 150 Ohm Blue Glue, 32 Ohm N52 Blue Glue, 64 Ohm White Glue, and 64 Ohm N52 Red Rim. But I keep going back to the Red Vido's every so often, though the lack of resolution in comparison is disappointing.


Buy another pair and do the airy mod


----------



## Gifting (Jul 31, 2022)

jeejack said:


> Buy another pair and do the airy mod



Very cool. Do the highs become more pronounced? Because I like them just the way they are. Or rather, I would like the highs not sounding drastically different. Sorry if I sound petty, haha.


----------



## jeejack

Gifting said:


> Very cool. Do the highs become more pronounced?


Yes


----------



## GREQ

Gifting said:


> Very cool. Do the highs become more pronounced? Because I like them just the way they are. Or rather, I would like the highs not sounding drastically different. Sorry if I sound petty, haha.





jeejack said:


> Yes


I just tried out this mod with two identical brand new white Vidos, modifying one and leaving the other in stock condition.
Both also using identical low-density foams.

I had the opposite result. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The modified bud became warmer, treble less pronounced. 
After blocking the vents with blue tack, the treble came back.


----------



## Gifting (Jul 31, 2022)

jeejack said:


> Yes


I’ll order an extra pair regardless and try out that mod. I can’t know if I’ll enjoy it if I never try. Thanks for the video!


----------



## ValSuki (Jul 31, 2022)

Setmagic said:


> In DIY Workroom we done some nice stuff that was develop last times.
> Thanks to @robar who design shells with close cooperation and prototyping of @Rary and me.
> Best mods from our friends in advanced shell acoustic system.
> 
> ...


Very well done you guys! Ive been working on 3d printed flat head earbuds for a while myself, but these are looking very nice. Cant wait to see how you guys continue this work and I do hope 3d printing picks up on these kind of buds more.

If you guys need some little bits of knowledge on my research Id be willing to chip in!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 31, 2022)

ValSuki said:


> Very well done you guys! Ive been working on 3d printed flat head earbuds for a while myself, but these are looking very nice. Cant wait to see how you guys continue this work and I do hope 3d printing picks up on these kind of buds more.
> 
> If you guys need some little bits of knowledge on my research Id be willing to chip in!


*@ValSuki* is being too modest. He has created an amazing shell type of his own... the *Val39* which is used in his Valphonics Valar v2 earbud.

*2022- Valphonics Valar v1; 68Ω (aka Valbuds)*​*2022 - Valphonics Valar v2; 32Ω (aka Valbuds; uses the Val39 custom-made shell)*​
The *Val39* shell is already in use by *@RikudouGoku *in two (2) of his models, the Assassin 2 and Grand Berserker 2.

*RikuBuds* by *@RikudouGoku *​*2022 - RikuBuds Assassin 2; 32ΩFostex (Val39 custom-made shell)*​*2022 - RikuBuds Grand Berserker 2; 300ΩDLC (Val39 custom-made shell)*​​*


*


----------



## TheShrek

Hi guys, I am a newbie. I using Shozy BK and Shanling M2S (as a DAC with usb cable). Do I need to upgrade new real dac (Ifi hip dac or fiio ka3...) Or upgrade to a better earbud?. Thank you all. I think a need to read all of these threads


----------



## haudaikuwa

I'm coming from iem's. What earbud under $20 would yaw rec?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 31, 2022)

TheShrek said:


> Hi guys, I am a newbie. I using Shozy BK and Shanling M2S (as a DAC with usb cable). Do I need to upgrade new real dac (Ifi hip dac or fiio ka3...) Or upgrade to a better earbud?. Thank you all. I think a need to read all of these threads


Do you like the sound of the BK? Is your Shanling still in good working order? If so, you have a fine combination there, really.

The AKM AK4490EQ DAC is a proven chip and I wouldn't worry about the 4.8Ω output impedance of your M2S when it comes to the Shozy BK. Although they are quite sensitive 16Ω @ 115dB/mW these earbuds play extremely well with higher output impedance with no ill effects. I successfully used my Shozy BK with much higher output impedances (~100Ω) with absolutely no issues... the 1/8th rule does not apply equally across transducers and the BKs are one of those exceptions. All thanks due to the 2006 NTT DoCoMo P01 New Variant drivers that Shozy used and which are well known to be amazing drivers in many regards.

The venerable  *Shozy 大黑 Big Black (BK) Stardust* is a mighty fine earbud and many (myself included) consider it to be a classic god-tier level masterpiece. It sits at eighth place on my *All-Time Top 15 Flathead Earbuds Ranking List* and for good reason! Your Shanling M2S also is very nice and can easily drive the 16Ω Shozy BK to musical bliss. I never found the BK to scale that much with more powerful sources so I don't think it is worth spending the money for extra power that is not required. The Shozy BK is truly a big bang for your buck type earbud.

Do know that the Shozy BK has a unique warm & dark signature that is quite rare in the earbud world. Warm-smooth sounding they are super ear friendly and fatigue-free this earbud can literally be worn by most people all day long without issue. Robust and well-made, I honestly have not remembered hearing of any driver or cable failure being reported.



Spoiler: Shozy BK Stardust Sound Signature Chart



As you can see by it's primary sound signature plot (the bold red dot on the sound signature chart just below) the BK shares many similarities with the Sennheiser HD600 which is often accused of being veiled, boring, and/or lacking midrange detail as well (though with the HD600 a weak source is many times the culprit rather than the actual tuning). The Shozy BK has a number of stronger and weaker secondary characteristics that effects the overall signature we hear. But it must be strongly reminded that it is possible for earphones to exhibit prominent tertiary characteristics as well... ones that are quite opposing to the primary and secondary characteristics in fact. So although the BK generally has strong "warm" and "dark" oriented leanings I too found that it offered sharp details and a balanced sound as well.

Their primary sound signature is nearly neutral, mid-centric, and ever so slightly on the warm-side. Some find them balanced sounding ("U-Shaped") while others, like myself, find them to be slightly mid-forward sounding almost like an upside down "Inverted U-Shape" signature (not quite as strong as a classic "W-Shape" though). Overall they have a "classical golden age earbud" tuning that is not too far off from being reference with most music genres and are quite natural and airy sounding while still being warm and smooth.

With that said, I can easily see why some people feel the Shozy BK is "veiled" as it is indeed far from being a bright, aggressive, and/or analytically signature'd earphone. Though that doesn't necessarily mean it or "warm/dark" sounding earphones can not provide good detail (as mentioned before) it may just come down to that it is simply presented in a manner that some people find boring, interpret as being "veiled" or "lacking brightness", and thus do not like it. Just like the Sennheiser HD600 we could debate it until we are all blue in the face if it is actually due to a "veiled" tendency exhibited by the Sennheiser house sound (tuning) or simply is just due to an absence of "brightness"... the fact remains that some people simply do not like the signature and that is perfectly fine.






_Primary_ = *Mid-Centric - Flat / Neutral* (warm leaning)
_Secondary (Strong) _= *Warm*
_Secondary (Strong) _= *Detailed*
_Secondary (Weak)_ = *Bass *(not basshead level but very present and detailed)
_Secondary (Weak)_ = *Airy* (not bright nor sibilant in any way)
_Tertiary (Complementing)_ = *Smooth*
_Tertiary (Complementing) = _*Inverted U-Shaped* (some may hear a "balanced" tuning instead)
_Tertiary (Opposing) _= *U-Shaped *(while others may hear a slightly mid-forward tuning)

*SPECIAL NOTE ABOUT THE SOUND SIGNATURE CHART*
It is crucial that you do not interpret this chart two-dimensionally but rather three-dimensionally using all axes offered. Optimally, this would be best presented as a sphere but in turn that would make it difficult to clearly see and read all the labels and sections. Thus, we are limited to two-dimensions for the sake of presentation and clarity. Please note that I tried my best to stick to the "classic" (more basic) sound signature & tuning characteristic definitions as used by recording professionals & audio engineers. More *here*.



Now if you are after a different sound that is an entirely different story. I would always recommend a transducer upgrade before any source (anywhere in the chain). With some more info many recommendations will follow:

*'The Checklist' For Flathead Earbud Recommendation Requests*


----------



## WoodyLuvr

haudaikuwa said:


> I'm coming from iem's. What earbud under $20 would yaw rec?


Welcome to the rabbit hole! Be careful it is quite deep...

After a little way the rabbit hole suddenly went down, deep into the ground. Alice could not stop herself falling, and down she went, too. It was a very strange hole. Alice was falling very slowly, and she had time to think and to look around her. She could see nothing below her because it was so dark. But when she looked at the sides of the hole, she could see cupboards and books and pictures on the walls. She had time to take things out of a cupboard, look at them, and then put them back in a cupboard lower down. _“Well!”_ thought Alice. _“After a fall like this, I can fall anywhere! I can fall downstairs at home, and I won’t cry or say a word about it!” _Down, down, down. _“How far have I fallen now?”_ Alice said aloud to herself. _“Perhaps I’m near the centre of the earth. Let me think … That’s four thousand miles down.”_ (Alice was very good at her school lessons and could remember a lot of things like this.) Down, down, down. Would she ever stop falling? Alice was very nearly asleep when, suddenly, she was sitting on the ground.​​Help us, help you. Give us some more info and surely you'll be returned with some mighty fine recommendations.

'The Checklist' For Flathead Earbud Recommendation Requests


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Welcome to the rabbit hole! Be careful it is quite deep...
> 
> After a little way the rabbit hole suddenly went down, deep into the ground. Alice could not stop herself falling, and down she went, too. It was a very strange hole. Alice was falling very slowly, and she had time to think and to look around her. She could see nothing below her because it was so dark. But when she looked at the sides of the hole, she could see cupboards and books and pictures on the walls. She had time to take things out of a cupboard, look at them, and then put them back in a cupboard lower down. _“Well!”_ thought Alice. _“After a fall like this, I can fall anywhere! I can fall downstairs at home, and I won’t cry or say a word about it!” _Down, down, down. _“How far have I fallen now?”_ Alice said aloud to herself. _“Perhaps I’m near the centre of the earth. Let me think … That’s four thousand miles down.”_ (Alice was very good at her school lessons and could remember a lot of things like this.) Down, down, down. Would she ever stop falling? Alice was very nearly asleep when, suddenly, she was sitting on the ground.​​Help us, help you. Give us some more info and surely you'll be returned with some mighty fine recommendations.
> 
> 'The Checklist' For Flathead Earbud Recommendation Requests


LOL Nice!


----------



## Black-Wolf

I agree with @WoodyLuvr about the BK: very well tuned buds (warm and smooth), quite unique in their category, extremely interesting even if they are not thebmost technical on the market. They don't need much power, a good dongle like tour Shanling or an E1DA or a Hidisz s9 is more than enough, i don't think you hear any Real (= non placebo) improvement with something more high end.

If you want to upgrade, you should yourself what type of sound you like: Shozy-like or something else?


I received 3 days ago my Riku Buds Grand Rider 1...those are real beasts: quite neutral but with a slight elevation in the lows and in the highs, but it's not if "V Type" sound, it's more subtle than that. (It's not a shelf-like elevation)
Those have a lot of energy ans excellent technical level. Soundstage is amont the best i've heard. Truly exceptional.

 I think they are excellent all rounders with inthin they shine on rock ans métal music, with much energy without being harsh.

I'm on holidays in south of France with just my Grand Rider and my Newbsound (to have  smoother  buds when i'm in another mood) and my E1DA 9038D dongle to drive them and i'm a very happy man with them!


----------



## TheShrek

Wow, very nice guys, really help me. The best thing when I use BK is the smooth and warm sound. I've replaced the BK wire with a 30$ OOC Litz 7N bronze because the old one has been broken( I don't have any experience with that). After being replaced, my earbud became lesser clarity (bad thing ). I'm happy with BK, and I want to know the result if I spend the extra budget. My favorite music genres are Pop Ballad, Acoustic, Rock Ballad, Adele genre , and sometimes EDM. I like the warm sound of BK, but I need more details and space (for example, when I listen to Hotel California). Sorry for my messy explanation.


----------



## 4ceratops (Jul 31, 2022)

haudaikuwa said:


> I'm coming from iem's. What earbud under $20 would yaw rec?


I have good experience with Yincrow X6, Qian39 and Tingo TC200 mmcx.  Each of them need help with the equalizer, they each respond to it very willingly. All are available on Ali.


----------



## jeejack

4ceratops said:


> I have good experience with Yincrow X6, Qian39 and Tingo TC200 mmcx.  Each of them need help with the equalizer, they each respond to it very willingly. All are available on Ali.


I add RY4S mmcx plus to your list


----------



## jeejack

TheShrek said:


> Wow, very nice guys, really help me. The best thing when I use BK is the smooth and warm sound. I've replaced the BK wire with a 30$ OOC Litz 7N bronze because the old one has been broken( I don't have any experience with that). After being replaced, my earbud became lesser clarity (bad thing ). I'm happy with BK, and I want to know the result if I spend the extra budget. My favorite music genres are Pop Ballad, Acoustic, Rock Ballad, Adele genre , and sometimes EDM. I like the warm sound of BK, but I need more details and space (for example, when I listen to Hotel California). Sorry for my messy explanation.


You block the steam vent with the cable. Good things you have a solder iron. Now you need a multimeter 😉


----------



## chavez

jeejack said:


> I add RY4S mmcx plus to your list


Since you are coming from IEM's you probably have a mmcx cable lying around, so i would also recommend RY4S+ as the first bud.

@haudaikuwa


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> FiiO designed a winner!  The midrange is gold with these foams.  I was surprised how dark they were with the “balanced” foams.  Anyway, that’s my brief take on these.  I’d put these above any M2s pro configuration and definitely the SMABAT ST20 pro.  The LBBs isn’t really in these class and neither is the Vido, the X6, the cheaper FAAAEEEEEL buds… None of them.  These will be in my ears for a long time to come.  Bravo FiiO!  Next time, pack a wider array of foams though.  The DIY commercial buds I own are generally beaten by this as well.



So you are saying that I lucked out by choosing this FF3 as my first pair of earbuds? yay me 

I have been playing with EQ a bit. It turns out all the tuning tricks that I learned from IEM translate to flat head directly. Dropping the ear-gain a touch and adding 16k peak (a.k.a., 64 Audio TIA treble style) opens up the sound even further. Interestingly, I don't want to do anything with the bass. It's perfect where it is. Flat, tight, yet impactful somehow. These FF3 are excellent for almost everything that I throw at it, even some meme songs like despacito. 

Is there anywhere I can find material to learn how to DIY a pair of earphones? Never touch a soldering iron in my life, only write computer programs and research papers. However, I am eager to build an earphone that captures my target frequency response.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> So you are saying that I lucked out by choosing this FF3 as my first pair of earbuds? yay me
> 
> I have been playing with EQ a bit. It turns out all the tuning tricks that I learned from IEM translate to flat head directly. Dropping the ear-gain a touch and adding 16k peak (a.k.a., 64 Audio TIA treble style) opens up the sound even further. Interestingly, I don't want to do anything with the bass. It's perfect where it is. Flat, tight, yet impactful somehow. These FF3 are excellent for almost everything that I throw at it, even some meme songs like despacito.
> 
> Is there anywhere I can find material to learn how to DIY a pair of earphones? Never touch a soldering iron in my life, only write computer programs and research papers. However, I am eager to build an earphone that captures my target frequency response.


You did get very lucky or you had good insight based on where that company has been heading as of late.  If they would only bring back my beloved e12 Monte Blanc, I’d have no qualms with them.  In fact, pairing the ff3 with the MB is surely the bee‘s knees.  If you use the foams I recommend, you can maybe dispense with the EQ….  You’ll get more 16kHz (air) and that may restore balance with the pinna gain for you.  If you then pair it with the e12 MB, you’ll probably just sell all your other gear (j/k).


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Jul 31, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> So you are saying that I lucked out by choosing this FF3 as my first pair of earbuds? yay me
> 
> I have been playing with EQ a bit. It turns out all the tuning tricks that I learned from IEM translate to flat head directly. Dropping the ear-gain a touch and adding 16k peak (a.k.a., 64 Audio TIA treble style) opens up the sound even further. Interestingly, I don't want to do anything with the bass. It's perfect where it is. Flat, tight, yet impactful somehow. These FF3 are excellent for almost everything that I throw at it, even some meme songs like despacito.
> 
> Is there anywhere I can find material to learn how to DIY a pair of earphones? Never touch a soldering iron in my life, only write computer programs and research papers. However, I am eager to build an earphone that captures my target frequency response.


Here you go:

*DIY Earbuds guide*

*The Cat Listens Driver Repository*

*Head-Fi's "DIY Earbuds" Thread*

*DIY Workroom Group *(_there is a cool group of DIY earbud custom makers & modders but for the life of me I can't find the link to it for you sorry... my DIY days are over... I believe *@Setmagic* is the de facto spokesperson for the group_)

Good luck. Remain patient. And let us know how you progress over on the DIY Earbuds thread. Cheers.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 1, 2022)

jeejack said:


> You block the steam vent with the cable. Good things you have a solder iron. Now you need a multimeter 😉


👆Very common mistake when re-cabling this will definitely muffle a PK type shelled earbud.



TheShrek said:


> Wow, very nice guys, really help me. The best thing when I use BK is the smooth and warm sound. I've replaced the BK wire with a 30$ OOC Litz 7N bronze because the old one has been broken( I don't have any experience with that). After being replaced, my earbud became lesser clarity (bad thing ). I'm happy with BK, and I want to know the result if I spend the extra budget. My favorite music genres are Pop Ballad, Acoustic, Rock Ballad, Adele genre , and sometimes EDM. I like the warm sound of BK, but I need more details and space (for example, when I listen to Hotel California). Sorry for my messy explanation.


Well that is a first! I have never heard of a cable failure on a Shozy BK but I guess it was bound to happen since they are aging now. Very curious to know where the cable failed... at the jack, shell stem, or the driver?

Sounds like your model is one of the older ones, correct? Do you recall what color your cable was before replacing it? The 2016 original version came with a brown cable and then Shozy changed to a dark grey colored cable in 2017/8 after they ran out of brown cabling. The 2021 reissue is again using a brown cable.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> You did get very lucky or you had good insight based on where that company has been heading as of late



I remember reading from somewhere that Fiio already expected not being able to sell these earbuds well, but still launched the project because their founder is an earbuds fan himself. Perhaps that’s why it’s decent.



WoodyLuvr said:


> Here you go:
> 
> *DIY Earbuds guide*
> 
> ...



Thanks a lot for the materials. I need to save them somewhere safe for reference.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Ronion said:


> You did get very lucky or you had good insight based on where that company has been heading as of late.  If they would only bring back my beloved e12 Monte Blanc, I’d have no qualms with them.  In fact, pairing the ff3 with the MB is surely the bee‘s knees.  If you use the foams I recommend, you can maybe dispense with the EQ….  You’ll get more 16kHz (air) and that may restore balance with the pinna gain for you.  If you then pair it with the e12 MB, you’ll probably just sell all your other gear (j/k).


Indeed the FiiO E12 Monte Blanc, E11K (A3) Kilimanjaro 2, and E17K Alpen 2 were all simply divine devices. So thankful that old Head-Fi'er @Brooko convinced me to give them a whirl.


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Indeed the FiiO E12 Monte Blanc, E11K (A3) Kilimanjaro 2, and E17K Alpen 2 were all simply divine devices. So thankful that old Head-Fi'er @Brooko convinced me to give them a whirl.


I still have my E17 (Alpen), E17K (Alpen 2), OG X5, and X3II. They are all still in (quite good) working order. I actually liked the Alpen better than the Alpen II, but they had to release the Alpen II to better accommodate their own (newly released) DAPs IMO. But at the time I loved them all (alot). I had found something that was TOTL to my ears without spending TOTL dollars on something like A&K. 

The Alpen was made more to go with the iPods of the day, which had all of their connectors on the bottom (so, then does the Alpen), whereas their own DAPs had the connectors on the top of the devices (so, then does the Alpen II). 

However, the DAC in the Alpen was much better than with the Alpen II IMHO. Controls were a little more user friendly, and there wasn't a "wheel" for volume, but buttons which I found more reassuring where longevity was concerned.

On the other hand, the Alpen II was flatter, but taller and wider, which made it fit better with larger devices (as a stack). 

I don't use them much anymore because even my lower quality DAP has more output power than either Alpen (better amp section @1.2W), and their signature isn't profound enough in the difference in sound to justify carrying around a stack again (or at least in a better way).



Spoiler: FiiO X5, X3II, E17, and E17K










So sorry to get so far off topic, just thought I would (also) share a bit of my walk down memory lane.


----------



## rprodrigues

Ronion said:


> You did get very lucky or you had good insight based on where that company has been heading as of late.  If they would only bring back my beloved e12 Monte Blanc, I’d have no qualms with them.  In fact, pairing the ff3 with the MB is surely the bee‘s knees.  If you use the foams I recommend, you can maybe dispense with the EQ….  You’ll get more 16kHz (air) and that may restore balance with the pinna gain for you.  If you then pair it with the e12 MB, you’ll probably just sell all your other gear (j/k).



It's time to order FF3.


----------



## o0genesis0o

rprodrigues said:


> It's time to order FF3.



FF5 is coming in September. Fiio might give a steep discount for the first batch to entice reviewers again


----------



## 1clearhead

Did anyone purchase or own the *TRN EMA*? They sound surprisingly good! 
I could actually hear clear sub-bass notes while the midrange and treble are upfront clear and smooth and not at all harsh or sibilant, which is often the case with many earbuds. Personally, this is a rare and happy find for me. They are very light and comfortable and no need for the sponges (IMHO) for their size and WOW can they take power!
Sorry, I can't send you my personal PIC's since I am away for a week on vacation, but below are some PIC's from Aliexpress...



-Clear


----------



## boromcom

Could anyone review Dragon 3 Plus please?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

boromcom said:


> Could anyone review Dragon 3 Plus please?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16699473
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16512743


----------



## boromcom

WoodyLuvr said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16699473
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16512743


Thanks!


----------



## forestitalia

FF5 are the same shape of FF3? 
Because the FF3 to me look like the LBBS, thick and deep. Not ideal for small ears.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

forestitalia said:


> FF5 are the same shape of FF3?
> Because the FF3 to me look like the LBBS, thick and deep. Not ideal for small ears.




 


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fiio-2022-new-product-schedule-from-jamesfiio.963268/post-16952115


----------



## o0genesis0o

Hi guys, I have a couple questions

What are the benefit of extremely high impedance drivers in earbuds? I think I have seen one with 500ohms, 93db/mW@1k. I don’t think any portable gear beside the Fiio M17 can drive that.
Can a tuner fine-tune individual part of the FR with a dynamic driver? Say, a couple db dip around 1k, some extra db around 16k. I imagine it’s kind of impossible without multi-driver topology and cross-over.


----------



## Ronion (Aug 1, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Hi guys, I have a couple questions
> 
> What are the benefit of extremely high impedance drivers in earbuds? I think I have seen one with 500ohms, 93db/mW@1k. I don’t think any portable gear beside the Fiio M17 can drive that.
> Can a tuner fine-tune individual part of the FR with a dynamic driver? Say, a couple db dip around 1k, some extra db around 16k. I imagine it’s kind of impossible without multi-driver topology and cross-over.


Theoretically higher impedance should be able to get you better resolution and delineated instruments etc all things being equal (equality is impossible).  The extra weight of the VC comes with its own set of compromises.    Most higher impedance bud drivers have less bass and less treble than their low impedance equivalent.  With that said, some of the highest resolution buds I’ve heard are 32Ohm—the FiiO FF3 and the Tingo TG38.  The Tingo is low impedance but has no deep bass.  The FiiO perhaps only lacks in treble output, but it does have treble and it sounds nice and smooth and free of resonance.  Both the FiiO and the Tingo have aluminum Voice Coils and should have a better magnetic strength to weight ratio.  My guess is that it’s how these 2 buds manage to sound like higher impedance buds without the need for more power.

And you can definitely tune buds that way.  It can be tricky if you are striving for perfection like me, or you can just buy the FiiO FF3 and just change its socks to fit your ear and preferences  Depends on how far down the rabbit hole you are looking to go.  As far as I know there are no books on the subject and it requires tons of experience.  When I saw the response from this FiiO, I knew they had done their homework and you’re unlikely to outdo their engineers.  It’s a fun hobby though and I do like a couple of my buds as much or more than this FiiO, but I am biased.  None of the ones I like to a similar amount fit as nice as this does barring one that I’ve done in a PK shell.  Unfortunately that driver is old and fragile and several of them have died on me.  So yeah, just stick with the FiiO and see what’s coming next unless you truly enjoy the DIY process.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Hi guys, I have a couple questions
> 
> What are the benefit of extremely high impedance drivers in earbuds? I think I have seen one with 500ohms, 93db/mW@1k. I don’t think any portable gear beside the Fiio M17 can drive that.
> Can a tuner fine-tune individual part of the FR with a dynamic driver? Say, a couple db dip around 1k, some extra db around 16k. I imagine it’s kind of impossible without multi-driver topology and cross-over.


You would need a source that can put out 5.05Vrms to run those. I normally go extra when figuring this because of swing, and headroom. I can think of quit a few DAPS that can push those. Heck, I use my 600 ohm buds on my DX160 (mid tier), because it puts out 6.7Vrms (IIRC).

On the other hand, that is quite a bit of power from a portable even today (though there is quite a bit higher out there).


----------



## Grayven

hi earbud experts.
I am looking to try some earbuds as I am a little unsatisfied with iems in terms of overall body and soundstage.
I listen to a wide variety of genres and play lots of games and I am looking for something with a good range of use cases but in general I prefer some bass with good timbre and a little sparkle on the high end.
right now my budget is around 100$ and would love some recommendations to start down this rabbit hole  
thanks in advance!


----------



## boromcom

Grayven said:


> hi earbud experts.
> I am looking to try some earbuds as I am a little unsatisfied with iems in terms of overall body and soundstage.
> I listen to a wide variety of genres and play lots of games and I am looking for something with a good range of use cases but in general I prefer some bass with good timbre and a little sparkle on the high end.
> right now my budget is around 100$ and would love some recommendations to start down this rabbit hole
> thanks in advance!


I love FF3 and my VE copper sun but might over your budget.


----------



## samandhi

Grayven said:


> hi earbud experts.
> I am looking to try some earbuds as I am a little unsatisfied with iems in terms of overall body and soundstage.
> I listen to a wide variety of genres and play lots of games and I am looking for something with a good range of use cases but in general I prefer some bass with good timbre and a little sparkle on the high end.
> right now my budget is around 100$ and would love some recommendations to start down this rabbit hole
> thanks in advance!


IMHO the Yincrow RW2000 are still one of the best all-rounders that fit your description, but they are a bit above your budget. Most of the others I have heard below that price have more than a little sparkle (again IMO).


----------



## Grayven

boromcom said:


> VE copper sun





samandhi said:


> Yincrow RW2000


ff3 and the yin crow are still within my range.
I definitely dont want TOO much sparkle as I can get fairly fatigued.
those both sound like good options. hows the comfort on the yincrow?


----------



## Grayven

and now ive ordered the Fiio FF3. 
 here we go again...


----------



## samandhi

Grayven said:


> ff3 and the yin crow are still within my range.
> I definitely dont want TOO much sparkle as I can get fairly fatigued.
> those both sound like good options. hows the comfort on the yincrow?


For me, top notch but YMMV. They seem a bit smaller than the typical bud, I could be wrong though. But because of the shape and lack of stem, they can easily be worn over ear as well, and I don't find the sound changed much (if at all).


----------



## MelodyMood

1clearhead said:


> Did anyone purchase or own the *TRN EMA*? They sound surprisingly good!
> I could actually hear clear sub-bass notes while the midrange and treble are upfront clear and smooth and not at all harsh or sibilant, which is often the case with many earbuds. Personally, this is a rare and happy find for me. They are very light and comfortable and no need for the sponges (IMHO) for their size and WOW can they take power!
> Sorry, I can't send you my personal PIC's since I am away for a week on vacation, but below are some PIC's from Aliexpress...
> 
> ...


I had a look at this on AE recently quite a few times. Nice to see that you actually bought them and found good too.  I was considering them too but wasn't sure abt the sound quality and also not having MMCX type. But I can order as it comes with Cable too. But does it has Straight plug type?  Good Bass too as you already mentioned abt Sub-Bass feel as well.


----------



## MelodyMood

Nicehck BS70, did anyone use that? How is the sound?


----------



## chinmie

1clearhead said:


> Did anyone purchase or own the *TRN EMA*? They sound surprisingly good!
> I could actually hear clear sub-bass notes while the midrange and treble are upfront clear and smooth and not at all harsh or sibilant, which is often the case with many earbuds. Personally, this is a rare and happy find for me. They are very light and comfortable and no need for the sponges (IMHO) for their size and WOW can they take power!
> Sorry, I can't send you my personal PIC's since I am away for a week on vacation, but below are some PIC's from Aliexpress...
> 
> ...



interesting, I'm looking for an inexpensive 2pin earbuds to pair it with the KZ AZ09 pro. might purchase it too


----------



## Ronion (Aug 2, 2022)

These are the measurements I got off the FF3 vs my neutral target on my rig with VE foams.  Pretty much match my impressions exactly.  You can see why I said this isn't the deepest bass in a bud I've heard, but this is definitely strong bass for a bud.  I didn't measure it with other socks on.  Just to show you how close it is to the best I threw in that graph as well.


----------



## Ronion

Here's a little something extra: my 2 favorite buds vs. my target curve:


----------



## boromcom

Ronion said:


> Here's a little something extra: my 2 favorite buds vs. my target curve:


What is your another favorite one?


----------



## gordonli

Ronion said:


> These are the measurements I got off the FF3 vs my neutral target on my rig with VE foams.  Pretty much match my impressions exactly.  You can see why I said this isn't the deepest bass in a bud I've heard, but this is definitely strong bass for a bud.  I didn't measure it with other socks on.  Just to show you how close it is to the best I threw in that graph as well.


14.2mm driver, so is the shell on the smaller side? That would be great


----------



## Ronion

boromcom said:


> What is your another favorite one?


A DIY MX500


gordonli said:


> 14.2mm driver, so is the shell on the smaller side? That would be great


The shell does fit my ear and my measurement rig better than the MX500.  It fits essentially as well as a PK shell.  The consistency in the rig is remarkable just like the PK and the Lite shell.

I'll throw another favorite in the mix for sake of thoroughness.  It's also DIY.


----------



## Reebonz (Aug 2, 2022)

I received the Serratus and Tantalus from @tgx78





*Brief listening out of the box:*

Serratus (with stock foam) = Sennheiser HD 800S
Tantalus (with stock foam) = Meze Empyrean

Serratus (with Hiegi donut foam) = Meze Elite
Tantalus (with Hiegi donut foam) = Meze Empyrean with more holographic soundstage

My personal preference is Serratus with Hiegi donut foam which shockingly almost sounds like my Meze Elite! With stock foam, the sound is thinner than I like. Hiegi donut foam is denser and softer, which is more comfortable in my ears.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 2, 2022)

Reebonz said:


> I received the Serratus and Tantalus from @tgx78
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yet another Tantalus post and with a picture! I am truly dying here... I am awaiting my Tantalus to arrive in the mail from overseas and they couldn't come any slower now with all these reviews coming in on the forums. 

I too am a Hiegi foam lover, donut or full, but I tend to use full foams as I am terribly sensitive to naughty treble these days and as I like to listen for long periods of time the full foams tame the higher mids and highs for me.

Even if they are even remotely close to the performance of the Meze Empyrean I will be very pleased, most indeed!


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> These are the measurements I got off the FF3 vs my neutral target on my rig with VE foams.  Pretty much match my impressions exactly.  You can see why I said this isn't the deepest bass in a bud I've heard, but this is definitely strong bass for a bud.  I didn't measure it with other socks on.  Just to show you how close it is to the best I threw in that graph as well.



How do you measure these earbuds? IEC711 coupler attached to an artificial outer ear?


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> How do you measure these earbuds? IEC711 coupler attached to an artificial outer ear?


I made a mold of my ears and attached it to a measurement mic after making a calibration curve in the most sensible way I could think of and made it sensible for ear buds.  It helps me test for fit that way because they essentially go in the same shape of ear.


----------



## Laurence11

Reebonz said:


> I received the Serratus and Tantalus from @tgx78
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Does he have an online store?


----------



## o0genesis0o

Reebonz said:


> I received the Serratus and Tantalus from @tgx78
> 
> 
> 
> ...



HD800s in portable form excites me


----------



## Reebonz

Laurence11 said:


> Does he have an online store?


No online store, but he probably should start one.

For now, you can dm him here or on Instagram if you are interested.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 2, 2022)

Laurence11 said:


> Does he have an online store?


You can buy earbuds from your Commonwealth brethren *@tgx78* via PM @ *TGXEAR*.


----------



## nymz

Reebonz said:


> I received the Serratus and Tantalus from @tgx78
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great to see you're also enjoying them! I can't get both out of my ears. 



Laurence11 said:


> Does he have an online store?



Yes!

https://instagram.com/tgxear


----------



## o0genesis0o

Quick update on FF3 after a couple days with it:

Still super impressive 
The upper midrange definitely has that Harman shout / shrill. Singers with high voice like Ed Sheeran and the guy from Maroon 5 are borderline painful. It’s not sibilance, just the forward upper midrange. Not difficult to fix with EQ, though. I use the same profile that I apply to every other Harman-ish IEMs.
Bass is beautiful. How a flat bass with rolled off subbass can sound that large and textured is beyond me. Because the bass is quite flat in terms of quantity, no bleed or muddiness. No boosting is necessary for me, and this comes from a guy who loves the thicc bass of E5000.
I want a bit more air. Perhaps that’s because I always EQ my IEMs to sound like TIA treble of 64 Audio IEMs. Adding a bit 16k gives the sound a bit of that floating background instruments effect.

Is it always the case that good ear buds punch way above their price point comparing to IEMs? 

Btw, I saw this review and was bracing myself for kilobuck price tag. It turns out this TOTL is cheaper than a midrange IEM.


----------



## boromcom

Fiio has done amazing job. I just ordered FH9 and FD7 to complete my M11 plus set.


----------



## gordonli

@o0genesis0o funny you mention the pd21

The tops of my PK-ish wishlist:
1. fiio ff5 (I hope the size is similar)
2. fiio ff3 - 14.2mm, 45 ohm, 105db, CCAW voice coil, bery plated dome, PU gasket diaphragm - exclusive steel shell. 
3. dqsm pd21 - 14.5mm, 32 ohm, 116db, CCAW voice coil, N52 magnet, polymer diaphragm - exclusive metal shell.


----------



## mt877

Still no news from smabat about M4 shipping. It looks like they updated their M4 product page with a FR graph though. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't remember seeing a FR graph there before.


----------



## o0genesis0o

mt877 said:


> Still no news from smabat about M4 shipping. It looks like they updated their M4 product page with a FR graph though. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't remember seeing a FR graph there before.



I guess I should ignore the bass shell and read the rest like IEM graph? That ear gain looks deadly, though. Nearly 20db. At least it has an ear gain at the right place.


----------



## ian91

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yet another Tantalus post and with a picture! I am truly dying here... I am awaiting my Tantalus to arrive in the mail from overseas and they couldn't come any slower now with all these reviews coming in on the forums.
> 
> I too am a Hiegi foam lover, donut or full, but I tend to use full foams as I am terribly sensitive to naughty treble these days and as I like to listen for long periods of time the full foams tame the higher mids and highs for me.
> 
> Even if they are even remotely close to the performance of the Meze Empyrean I will be very pleased, most indeed!



You and me both! Mine haven't started moving through Canada Post yet. Questioning whether I should have waited and gone for MMCX cabling too. Hey ho!

In the meantime I've been enjoying the Blur OFC PK150 Wraith after many months solely listening to IEMs. The more coherent staging offered by a good flathead earbud is undeniable.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Is it always the case that good ear buds punch way above their price point comparing to IEMs?


I have found this to be very true even of the lower priced earbuds. It is very difficult to compare IEMs to earubds where price is concerned. IEMs have become so over priced that it has become ridiculous, and some IEM makers should be ashamed of themselves IMO. 

For me, I have found the sweet spot to be in the "mid-tier" offerings for price to performance ratio in the IEM category. I just don't find the "kilobuck" offerings to be that much better than the mid to lower tier offerings, and even then they have their faults that make them not as good IMO. 

On the other hand, I have never been one to buy just for the sake of collecting or having "upgradeitis". If I find a set that I really like, I stick with those. Most times, when I DO buy a new set, it is with the intention of buying something that is different than what I already have. It is usually not to try and improve what I already have (always on that quest, and never happy). And I never sell my gear off or send it back to re-fund my next purchase. My theory is that if I can't afford to buy something outright at that time, I don't really need it anyhow. So that may indeed disqualify me from speaking with any "expertise" on the subject. 

Having said that, I also tend to stay in the mid to upper tier of earbuds. That isn't to say there aren't some pretty fantastic offerings at very low prices. It is just that I don't want to sift through all the crap just to find that ONE set that is the outlier. Of course, there ARE exceptions to all things (as you know well I'm sure). I bought a set of the NiceHCK EB2S for $16 (IIRC), and they turned out to be really good for their price IMO.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> I guess I should ignore the bass shell and read the rest like IEM graph? That ear gain looks deadly, though. Nearly 20db. At least it has an ear gain at the right place.


Smabat is well known for their boosted pina gain, though a vast majority of earbuds also use this type tuning. I am very sensitive to that type of tuning. I have only found one set (that I own) that doesn't have this sort of boosting (Yinman 600 2.0). All the rest I have are boosted in varying amounts (some much worse than others). 

In a way, I am sort of thankful of this because it HAS regulated my volume to a level that eliminates any possibility of ear damage from being too loud...


----------



## gordonli

Found a review of DQSM PD21 in chinese. My guess is 'elasticity' is what we call dynamics/transients, 'dive' is extension, but 'momentum'...I am at a loss haha. Also of interest is comparison to the Longyao Yinman flagship DR09 (only on Taobao).

https://www-discuss-com-hk.translat...sl=zh-TW&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc


----------



## MattsMad

Anyone have a driver or cheap bud recommendation that has good imaging and or soundstage?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

gordonli said:


> Found a review of DQSM PD21 in chinese. My guess is 'elasticity' is what we call dynamics/transients, 'dive' is extension, but 'momentum'...I am at a loss haha. Also of interest is comparison to the Longyao Yinman flagship DR09 (only on Taobao).
> 
> https://www-discuss-com-hk.translat...sl=zh-TW&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc


The *2021 Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 DR09; 32Ω* although an oddity and little known it is most definitely an astounding earbud and thus why I had placed it on my *God-Tier List* but I must say it is old hat now to the new *2022 - Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600 LE; 600Ω*. Unless of course you want the lower impedance then I would of course highly recommend the DR09 as the 600 needs POWER!!!

Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 Timeline

Longyao-Yinman 2.0 600 LE Mini Review


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Grayven said:


> hi earbud experts.
> I am looking to try some earbuds as I am a little unsatisfied with iems in terms of overall body and soundstage.
> I listen to a wide variety of genres and play lots of games and I am looking for something with a good range of use cases but in general I prefer some bass with good timbre and a little sparkle on the high end.
> right now my budget is around 100$ and would love some recommendations to start down this rabbit hole
> thanks in advance!





MattsMad said:


> Anyone have a driver or cheap bud recommendation that has good imaging and or soundstage?


Help us, help you. With a little bit more info you'll surely get more recommendations.

'The Checklist' For Flathead Earbud Recommendation Requests

Welcome to the rabbit hole!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

ian91 said:


> In the meantime I've been enjoying the Blur OFC PK150 Wraith after many months solely listening to IEMs. The more coherent staging offered by a good flathead earbud is undeniable.


Agreed! There is just something about the Wraith's imaging, timbre, and overall friendliness that I never grow tired of. I literally just switched out my Wraiths after about a week of listening right before reading your post. Now I am back to my Berserker 1 for a few days before I return to my newest earbud the Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600 LE to really assess it.


----------



## ian91

WoodyLuvr said:


> Agreed! There is just something about the Wraith's imaging, timbre, and overall friendliness that I never grow tired of. I literally just switched out my Wraiths after about a week of listening right before reading your post. Now I am back to my Berserker 1 for a few days before I return to my newest earbud the Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600 LE to really assess it.



It strikes a balance and good versatility that a lot of my Blurs are missing!

How's the Beserker by comparison to the White Face? I'm assuming it has a bass boost like the latter?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 2, 2022)

ian91 said:


> It strikes a balance and good versatility that a lot of my Blurs are missing!
> 
> How's the Beserker by comparison to the White Face? I'm assuming it has a bass boost like the latter?


Both are basshead earbuds (bass canons) but have different bass presentations entirely. Berserker is more L-Shaped whereas the White Face is Warm-Mid-Centric with strong bass performance.  I really need to figure out where my wife has hidden the White Face which he swiped from me and perform a solid comparison between the two.


----------



## Ronion

MattsMad said:


> Anyone have a driver or cheap bud recommendation that has good imaging and or soundstage?


Tingo TG38


----------



## syazwaned

WoodyLuvr said:


> Both are basshead earbuds (bass canons) but have different bass presentations entirely. Berserker is more L-Shaped whereas the Wraith is Warm-Mid-Centric with strong bass performance.  I really need to figure out where my wife has hidden the White Face which he swiped from me and perform a solid comparison between the two.


Hurm... Whenever my wife *hides* my earbuds...I just consider it gone forever 😭


----------



## Kumonomukou

syazwaned said:


> Hurm... Whenever my wife *hides* my earbuds...I just consider it gone forever 😭


Not a great idea for folks in this hobby, I mean it literally means you have reasons for more...


----------



## samandhi

Kumonomukou said:


> Not a great idea for folks in this hobby, I mean it literally means you have reasons for more...


That is a great excuse to upgrade! Problem is that my wife has a set of Bose that she just won't ever get rid of.


----------



## nymz

Ronion said:


> Tingo TG38



Can you give me a link to buy it? Either I'm too tired/blind or I can't seem to find it.

What's the difference between TG38 and TG38s?


----------



## FranQL (Aug 2, 2022)

nymz said:


> Can you give me a link to buy it? Either I'm too tired/blind or I can't seem to find it.
> 
> What's the difference between TG38 and TG38s?




https://a.aliexpress.com/_u7Cs7h

TG38S = 16 Ohm
TG38SA high impedance


----------



## nymz

FranQL said:


> https://a.aliexpress.com/_u7Cs7h
> 
> TG38 = 16 Ohm
> TG38S-SA high impedance



Thanks! Should I grab the S version as well or regular is enough?


----------



## FranQL (Aug 2, 2022)

SA:
https://a.aliexpress.com/_v5tPkf

SA I haven't tried it, but it has a good driver, my recommendation is for the regular version (S).


----------



## o0genesis0o

FranQL said:


> https://a.aliexpress.com/_u7Cs7h
> 
> TG38S = 16 Ohm
> TG38SA high impedance



*sign* open my wallet


----------



## FranQL (Aug 2, 2022)

SA:
https://a.aliexpress.com/_v5tPkf


o0genesis0o said:


> *sign* open my wallet



TG38S: For me they are the best value for money on the market, without a doubt


----------



## o0genesis0o

FranQL said:


> SA:
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_v5tPkf
> 
> 
> For me they are the best value for money on the market, without a doubt



How difficult are they to drive? All of my sources have dual saber chips without any independent amp, so around 70mW to 120mW at 32ohm on single ended output.


----------



## FranQL (Aug 2, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> How difficult are they to drive? All of my sources have dual saber chips without any independent amp, so around 70mW to 120mW at 32ohm on single ended output.


SA driver:





Review TG38s

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16445306


----------



## o0genesis0o

FranQL said:


> SA driver:



Okayyy, I’m sticking to the lower impedance version.


----------



## boromcom

WoodyLuvr said:


> The *2021 Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 DR09; 32Ω* although an oddity and little known it is most definitely an astounding earbud and thus why I had placed it on my *God-Tier List* but I must say it is old hat now to the new *2022 - Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600 LE; 600Ω*. Unless of course you want the lower impedance then I would of course highly recommend the DR09 as the 600 needs POWER!!!
> 
> Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 Timeline
> 
> Longyao-Yinman 2.0 600 LE Mini Review


Is Yinman 2.0 600LE comparable to VE sun copper? Is it one of the best? I would like to try but I have VE stay on my desk.


----------



## boromcom

boromcom said:


> Is Yinman 2.0 600LE comparable to VE sun copper? Is it one of the best? I would like to try but I have VE stay on my desk.


Oh they have only 3.5 no 4.4 jack


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> How difficult are they to drive? All of my sources have dual saber chips without any independent amp, so around 70mW to 120mW at 32ohm on single ended output.


Because they are so sensitive, you should be able to drive that with your current equipment (5mW @0.77Vrms and 2.6mA for 110DBSPL). Though you may not have a bunch of headroom. 


boromcom said:


> Oh they have only 3.5 no 4.4 jack


If you contact them you can request whichever connector you want. I got 2.5mm balanced for mine (I assume you are talking about the Yinman 2.0 600).


----------



## boromcom

samandhi said:


> Because they are so sensitive, you should be able to drive that with your current equipment (5mW @0.77Vrms and 2.6mA for 110DBSPL). Though you may not have a bunch of headroom.
> 
> If you contact them you can request whichever connector you want. I got 2.5mm balanced for mine (I assume you are talking about the Yinman 2.0 600).


Hi bro, yes Yinman 2.0 600.


----------



## samandhi

boromcom said:


> Hi bro, yes Yinman 2.0 600.


I cannot compare to VE as I have not heard them, but I CAN say they are my current favorites of my earbud collection. Some I have do better at one thing or another, but these are the best all around buds and can handle pretty much anything you throw at them. 

Anyhow, if you are thinking of ordering them on AE, just contact them before you place the order and they will hook you up with whichever connector you want.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> I guess I should ignore the bass shell and read the rest like IEM graph? That ear gain looks deadly, though. Nearly 20db. At least it has an ear gain at the right place.


You should ignore the whole thing.  It’s done incorrectly and will have no correlation with what you hear (though you may hear WAY TOO MUCH PINNA GAIN).  This is what kills me about SMABAT.  They make some of the most beautiful drivers and shells capable of bass, but whatever they are doing with their measurements makes zero sense in anything but an alien world and it seems to be a source of their tuning dysfunction.  I’m now sure I’m not buying this bud.


----------



## Ronion (Aug 2, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Quick update on FF3 after a couple days with it:
> 
> Still super impressive
> The upper midrange definitely has that Harman shout / shrill. Singers with high voice like Ed Sheeran and the guy from Maroon 5 are borderline painful. It’s not sibilance, just the forward upper midrange. Not difficult to fix with EQ, though. I use the same profile that I apply to every other Harman-ish IEMs.
> ...


What foams are you using now?  You can see from the graphs I posted that with the VE foams you should not have any issue with shout.


----------



## boromcom

NEW YINMAN 600 ohm High Impedance In Ear Earphone 600ohm Earbud Flat Head Plug Earplugs HIFI Earbud Earphone Limite
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mq5YzQs

Is this the one?


----------



## Ronion

FranQL said:


> SA:
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_v5tPkf
> 
> 
> TG38S: For me they are the best value for money on the market, without a doubt


Same.


----------



## samandhi

boromcom said:


> NEW YINMAN 600 ohm High Impedance In Ear Earphone 600ohm Earbud Flat Head Plug Earplugs HIFI Earbud Earphone Limite
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mq5YzQs
> 
> Is this the one?


Yes that is the one. But they don't look like that. Apparently, they don't update their photos very often. It has a stem on it, is made of wood, and has a fixed cable. 

Here is a picture of what they look like:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-17039883


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Okayyy, I’m sticking to the lower impedance version.


They seems to be fairly resilient to abuse as well.  I washed and dried mine a few weeks ago.  They work perfectly, but the foams are softer and smell flowers.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> They seems to be fairly resilient to abuse as well.  I washed and dried mine a few weeks ago.  They work perfectly, but the foams are softer and smell flowers.


Nice! I used to have a set of IEMs that smelled of chocolate (they did this on purpose for all of them BTW)... LOL


----------



## samandhi

samandhi said:


> Nice! I used to have a set of IEMs that smelled of chocolate (they did this on purpose for all of them BTW)... LOL


These.

Edit: Still have 2 sets of them actually...


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> What foams are you using now?  You can see from the graphs I posted that with the VE foams you should not have any issue with shout.



I use donut foams. The balanced and bass foams do tame the upper midrange a bit, but I find the drop in resolution unacceptable. They bring FF3 from a high-end IEM level (think of something like Sennheiser IE900) to an "adequate" IEM level (something like Moondrop Aria).


----------



## Ronion (Aug 2, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> I use donut foams. The balanced and bass foams do tame the upper midrange a bit, but I find the drop in resolution unacceptable. They bring FF3 from a high-end IEM level (think of something like Sennheiser IE900) to an "adequate" IEM level (something like Moondrop Aria).


Did you try thin foams?  I always find donut foams too hot in the upper mids and treble, but the thin foams are somewhere between the balanced and the donuts.

if you are still not happy with them, just get an e12 Monte Blanc LOL.  I laugh, but I’m sort of serious.


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> Because they are so sensitive, you should be able to drive that with your current equipment (5mW @0.77Vrms and 2.6mA for 110DBSPL). Though you may not have a bunch of headroom.
> 
> If you contact them you can request whichever connector you want. I got 2.5mm balanced for mine (I assume you are talking about the Yinman 2.0 600).



I just put the in a power calculator. For 300ohm, this pair of ear buds requires so little power. I might get this one to try.


----------



## Fargeg

Any direct comparisons/rankings available that include both midrange/high-end earbuds and IEMs? I'm looking for stuff that's at least around technically competent as a Moondrop Dusk, but having only tried budget earbuds means I lack reference points to predict how good an earbud sounds based on impressions or reviews of it.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Fargeg said:


> Any direct comparisons/rankings available that include both midrange/high-end earbuds and IEMs? I'm looking for stuff that's at least around technically competent as a Moondrop Dusk, but having only tried budget earbuds means I lack reference points to predict how good an earbud sounds based on impressions or reviews of it.



I'm working on such comparison for the review of Fiio FF3. I rate stuffs in terms of absolute performance, regardless of price and form factor, so you can use my rating to compare.

Regarding your question, I don't know about other ear buds but this FF3 with donut foam stomps almost everything in my collection in terms of technical performance, including the non-Dusk Blessing 2. It's bass is behind the bass canon E5000 in terms of quantity, and its resolution is behind Andromeda 2020 (which is more or less U12t level in my A/B tests). However, FF3 does not have the slightly muddy sound of E5000 nor the lack of dynamic of Andromeda 2020. 

If you like Dusk, FF3 upper mid might be a bit hot for you, because FF3 ear gain sounds similar to Blessing 2, whilst Crinacle has already reduced the upper midrange of Dusk.

If I were you, I would wait until September to see Fiio FF5 first. Perhaps they can improve upon FF3?


----------



## baskingshark

Fargeg said:


> Any direct comparisons/rankings available that include both midrange/high-end earbuds and IEMs? I'm looking for stuff that's at least around technically competent as a Moondrop Dusk, but having only tried budget earbuds means I lack reference points to predict how good an earbud sounds based on impressions or reviews of it.



It is hard to compare both types of transducers head to head, essentially, it is an apples to oranges comparison between earbuds and IEMs, cause they both have their pros and cons.

For example, most earbuds will lose to IEMs in isolation and hence sub-bass. Perhaps also earbuds might lose out in micro-detailing, but earbuds beat most IEMs in soundstage. Think of earbuds as mini open backed headphones.


----------



## rkw

boromcom said:


> Is this the one?





samandhi said:


> Yes that is the one. But they don't look like that. Apparently, they don't update their photos very often. It has a stem on it, is made of wood, and has a fixed cable.


Those are photos of exactly what I have, the original Yinman 600 with MMCX connectors from 5 years ago.


----------



## boromcom

o0genesis0o said:


> I'm working on such comparison for the review of Fiio FF3. I rate stuffs in terms of absolute performance, regardless of price and form factor, so you can use my rating to compare.
> 
> Regarding your question, I don't know about other ear buds but this FF3 with donut foam stomps almost everything in my collection in terms of technical performance, including the non-Dusk Blessing 2. It's bass is behind the bass canon E5000 in terms of quantity, and its resolution is behind Andromeda 2020 (which is more or less U12t level in my A/B tests). However, FF3 does not have the slightly muddy sound of E5000 nor the lack of dynamic of Andromeda 2020.
> 
> ...


I’m waiting for your review.


----------



## boromcom

rkw said:


> Those are photos of exactly what I have, the original Yinman 600 with MMCX connectors from 5 years ago.


Is it good?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 3, 2022)

boromcom said:


> Is it good?


I have now heard most if not all iterations (except for the 2021 rerun) of the *Yinman 音曼 600* and believe they all sound the same or damn near to.

2016 - Yinman 音曼 600; 640Ω (no wooden stem; fixed cable; impedance was higher than the listed 600Ω)​2016 (2018, 2019) - Yinman 音曼 2.0 醇净 600; 600Ω (no wooden stem; mmcx) *​2022 - Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600 LE; 600Ω (w/ long wooden stem; fixed cable)​​_* Only the MMCX version, the Yinman 音曼 2.0 醇净 600 ("醇净" <<Chún Jìng>> = "Pure/Purified") that was first launched back in 2016, has been reissued three (3) times in low-count 'limited reruns' in 2018, 2019, and recently in 2021 which is now again completely sold out and thus why Longyao-Yinman launched a new 2022 model with updated shells with stems as seen on the DR08, DR09, and Green Bull._​


boromcom said:


> Is Yinman 2.0 600LE comparable to VE sun copper? Is it one of the best? I would like to try but I have VE stay on my desk.


Although they sit in the same *primary sound signature* neighborhood: *mid-centric - warm & airy*_... _other than that they are vastly different sounding earbuds to my ears. The *VE Sun Copper* builds and greatly expands on the *VE Zen 2 *and VE House Sound. I do like the *VE Sun Copper* (I have borrowed it a few times from a friend) and found it to be much better than even the flagship *VE Zen SU* (another good friend of mine owns it) and even markedly better than my *VE Sun Dice* which I departed with back about two years ago when I minimalized my audio gear collection. I was considering to buy a pair of *VE Sun Copper* for myself but hesitant to as it sits low on my *personal ranking list* at seventh place in comparison to the *Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600 LE *which sits at third place tied with *RikuBuds Berserker 1* and *PureSounds 醇声 PureTone PS100-600S*.

So to summarize in my mind and by my personal tastes the *Yinman 音曼 600* is one of the top five (5) earbuds I have ever owned and/or listened to.


----------



## 1clearhead (Aug 3, 2022)

MelodyMood said:


> I had a look at this on AE recently quite a few times. Nice to see that you actually bought them and found good too.  I was considering them too but wasn't sure abt the sound quality and also not having MMCX type. But I can order as it comes with Cable too. But does it has Straight plug type?  Good Bass too as you already mentioned abt Sub-Bass feel as well.


It's a straight 2-pin insert. So far, it's snug and tight and doesn't fall out, which was my main concern. It's a very good earbud for such a low price.

-Clear


----------



## rkw

boromcom said:


> Is it good?


I posted this in 2017:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-13238617


----------



## boromcom

WoodyLuvr said:


> I have now heard most if not all iterations (except for the 2021 rerun) of the *Yinman 音曼 600* and believe they all sound the same or damn near to.
> 
> 2016 - Yinman 音曼 600; 640Ω (no wooden stem; fixed cable; impedance was higher than the listed 600Ω)​2016 (2018, 2019) - Yinman 音曼 2.0 醇净 600; 600Ω (no wooden stem; mmcx) *​2022 - Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600 LE; 600Ω (w/ long wooden stem; fixed cable)​​_* Only the MMCX version, the Yinman 音曼 2.0 醇净 600 ("醇净" <<Chún Jìng>> = "Pure/Purified") that was first launched back in 2016, has been reissued three (3) times in low-count 'limited reruns' in 2018, 2019, and recently in 2021 which is now again completely sold out and thus why Longyao-Yinman launched a new 2022 model with updated shells with stems as seen on the DR08, DR09, and Green Bull._​
> 
> ...


Very clear! Thx!


----------



## thedjkhalid

FranQL said:


> SA:
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_v5tPkf
> 
> 
> TG38S: For me they are the best value for money on the market, without a doubt


Just wondering if you could let me know which would be better, this tingo or faaeal rosemary?  if you have tried it


----------



## digititus

WoodyLuvr said:


> I really need to figure out where my wife has hidden the White Face which he swiped from me and perform a solid comparison between the two.


Mine is half deaf. She's a keeper.


----------



## yaps66

digititus said:


> Mine is half deaf. She's a keeper.


sorry. which one!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

thedjkhalid said:


> Just wondering if you could let me know which would be better, this tingo or faaeal rosemary?  if you have tried it


My personal vote would be for the *Faaeal Rosemary; 150Ω *but do realize it is of much higher impedance and it's drivers do scale well with just a little bit more power. What is your source?


----------



## baskingshark

thedjkhalid said:


> Just wondering if you could let me know which would be better, this tingo or faaeal rosemary?  if you have tried it



Tingo is kinda of V shaped, big soundstage and quite technical and on the brighter side. Easy to drive, but I didn't like the timbral accuracy on it.

Faaeal Rosemary is L shaped, dark, thicker note weight, very bassy and warm. It needs amplification due to the 150 ohm impedance. Not as detailed or technical as the Tingo, but Rosemary is very non fatiguing and smooth.


Do be aware that the hype over the Tingo was over the initial batches. After it was sold out, the manufacturers scrambled to meet demand and apparently the new batch of Tingos sound different than the original. The new batches use a different shell and I have some friends locally who have both types and report the new ones sound worse.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 3, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> Tingo is kinda of V shaped, big soundstage and quite technical and on the brighter side. Easy to drive, but I didn't like the timbral accuracy on it.
> 
> Faaeal Rosemary is L shaped, dark, thicker note weight, very bassy and warm. It needs amplification due to the 150 ohm impedance. Not as detailed or technical as the Tingo, but Rosemary is very non fatiguing and smooth.
> 
> ...


 What he said!

Very well put and totally hitting the nail right on the head in all regards!


----------



## captione

Grayven said:


> hi earbud experts.
> I am looking to try some earbuds as I am a little unsatisfied with iems in terms of overall body and soundstage.
> I listen to a wide variety of genres and play lots of games and I am looking for something with a good range of use cases but in general I prefer some bass with good timbre and a little sparkle on the high end.
> right now my budget is around 100$ and would love some recommendations to start down this rabbit hole
> thanks in advance!


I would suggest buying a bunch of the cheapest because the price-to-performance ratio of earbuds are insanely good. 
I would start with K64, Vido/Traceless and FAAEAL Iris Ancestors so you could start with some wide variety of signatures for those three, it should cost you less than 20USD for those.

Welcome to the earbud rabbithole!


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> It is hard to compare both types of transducers head to head, essentially, it is an apples to oranges comparison between earbuds and IEMs, cause they both have their pros and cons.
> 
> For example, most earbuds will lose to IEMs in isolation and hence sub-bass. Perhaps also earbuds might lose out in micro-detailing, but earbuds beat most IEMs in soundstage.* Think of earbuds as mini open backed headphones.*


This is what I was also going to say. Earbuds might be the size of IEMs, but they compare more directly with full size, open back headphones. Though because the drivers are much smaller, they DO suffer from the same issue as open back headphones used to suffer, and that is getting large quantities of sub-bass. 

There ARE a few that I have heard that, if I were to compare directly have more sub-bass than a set of neutral tuned over ears. That is pretty big for non-sealing tiny drivers. The technical achievements have come a very long way over the years.

As a for instance, I have a set of old Apple Classic (3rd gen) earbuds, and while they sound decent in the mids and highs, trying to EQ in any quantity of bass makes them distort quite a bit. But, something like the Rose Maria II and the Yinman 2.0 600 are able to be EQ'ed up to a level that you wouldn't think could be done with earbuds (obviously they don't sound "right" this way, but they can be made to be pretty bass-head styled if one so desired).


----------



## boromcom

Any recommendation for Blur series? Thank you in advance!


----------



## davjac84

rkw said:


> Those are photos of exactly what I have, the original Yinman 600 with MMCX connectors from 5 years ago.


I would like those buds, too bad they not are available 😑 Fixed cable is a no no for sure, mostly because I want cable with mic.


----------



## samandhi

davjac84 said:


> I would like those buds, too bad they not are available 😑 Fixed cable is a no no for sure, mostly because I want cable with mic.


You COULD always make your own...


----------



## WoodyLuvr

boromcom said:


> Any recommendation for Blur series? Thank you in advance!


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blur-earbuds-lovers.884062/post-14357627

My last update post regarding currently available models:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blur-earbuds-lovers.884062/post-16993230


----------



## Ronion

baskingshark said:


> Tingo is kinda of V shaped, big soundstage and quite technical and on the brighter side. Easy to drive, but I didn't like the timbral accuracy on it.
> 
> Faaeal Rosemary is L shaped, dark, thicker note weight, very bassy and warm. It needs amplification due to the 150 ohm impedance. Not as detailed or technical as the Tingo, but Rosemary is very non fatiguing and smooth.
> 
> ...


It makes me wonder what batch I have.  Mine are very close to neutral by the measurements, but missing deep bass.  I’ve only had them for a year or so, so I doubt they are original.  Mine were not glued however, and I did adjust their tuning…. Though I don’t recall what I was adjusting for.  Mine literally came without any tuning foams or papers installed.


----------



## Sam L

baskingshark said:


> Tingo is kinda of V shaped, big soundstage and quite technical and on the brighter side. Easy to drive, but I didn't like the timbral accuracy on it.
> 
> Faaeal Rosemary is L shaped, dark, thicker note weight, very bassy and warm. It needs amplification due to the 150 ohm impedance. Not as detailed or technical as the Tingo, but Rosemary is very non fatiguing and smooth.
> 
> ...


hmm.. didn't know that. Do you know around what time period they sold out of the initial runs? I'm pretty sure my tingo is an early one.


----------



## vygas

Sam L said:


> hmm.. didn't know that. Do you know around what time period they sold out of the initial runs? I'm pretty sure my tingo is an early one.


Easiest way to check is your cable, if it says TG-38S and has TinGo branding on the jack and splitter, you have the right one. You could also try open them up but I do not suggest that as the diaphragm can get stuck in the faceplate and rip the VC wires. So it's probably safer for you and your buds to just identify via cable.


----------



## rprodrigues (Aug 3, 2022)

Ronion said:


> It makes me wonder what batch I have.  Mine are very close to neutral by the measurements, but missing deep bass.  I’ve only had them for a year or so, so I doubt they are original.  Mine were not glued however, and I did adjust their tuning…. Though I don’t recall what I was adjusting for.  Mine literally came without any tuning foams or papers installed.



Mine is neutral as well. I believe he wrote about Fengru's TC200, not TG38s. I own two pairs of TC200 from different batches. The one form the last batch is not good.


----------



## thedjkhalid (Aug 3, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> My personal vote would be for the *Faaeal Rosemary; 150Ω *but do realize it is of much higher impedance and it's drivers do scale well with just a little bit more power. What is your source?


My source is a Qudelix 5K, I've been using it (rosemary) and it has a very warm sound to me since I used to use a bell lbbs (but it has a lot of distortion now so I can't use it anymore).

I have been looking for something better that wouldn't die on me like the lbbs.  Since I use the bluetooth quite a bit the battery gets drained quickly.


----------



## thedjkhalid

baskingshark said:


> Tingo is kinda of V shaped, big soundstage and quite technical and on the brighter side. Easy to drive, but I didn't like the timbral accuracy on it.
> 
> Faaeal Rosemary is L shaped, dark, thicker note weight, very bassy and warm. It needs amplification due to the 150 ohm impedance. Not as detailed or technical as the Tingo, but Rosemary is very non fatiguing and smooth.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your response!

I think I would like the tingo more, since I am using the rosemary currently (i prefer a signature like the bell lbbs) however if the new batches are rather lackluster I will probably look for another pair of buds.


----------



## boromcom

WoodyLuvr said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blur-earbuds-lovers.884062/post-14357627
> 
> My last update post regarding currently available models:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blur-earbuds-lovers.884062/post-16993230


Thx!


----------



## Ronion

davjac84 said:


> I would like those buds, too bad they not are available 😑 Fixed cable is a no no for sure, mostly because I want cable with mic.


You can always add a mic with Sennheiser’s break out cable.  Sound Professionals also makes one.  Okay believe Drop.com carries Sennheiser one as a stock item.


boromcom said:


> Any recommendation for Blur series? Thank you in advance!


PK32


----------



## boromcom

Ronion said:


> You can always add a mic with Sennheiser’s break out cable.  Sound Professionals also makes one.  Okay believe Drop.com carries Sennheiser one as a stock item.
> 
> PK32


I think he has only 266 but let me ask him today.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

boromcom said:


> I think he has only 266 but let me ask him today.


Yes, I don't think he has any PK shells, or even PK drivers (16Ω, 32Ω, or 150Ω) for that matter, left over now. He has been hyper focused on the *266R MX Reference Retune* series and trying to eek out better performance from the following four (4) MX drivers (*32Ω, 54Ω, 150Ω, & 300Ω*). He doesn't have as much time now due to his work back in the aviation industry so that is a big factor in why there will be limited models/series available (to include special custom projects) for the foreseeable future.


----------



## boromcom

boromcom said:


> I think he has only 266 but let me ask him today.


Blur 266 MX300


WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, I don't think he has any PK shells, or even PK drivers (16Ω, 32Ω, or 150Ω) for that matter, left over now. He has been hyper focused on the *266R MX Reference Retune* series and trying to eek out better performance from the following four (4) MX drivers (*32Ω, 54Ω, 150Ω, & 300Ω*). He doesn't have as much time now due to his work back in the aviation industry so that is a big factor in why there will be limited models/series available (to include special custom projects) for the foreseeable future.


yeah you are right. I just booked for 266R MX 300 with copper cable. He has 189 hybrid as well.


----------



## boromcom

But I’m not sure which ohm I should order haha. I do normally use my earbuds with Megatron , ifi Diablo and Dap. So power to drive my earbuds is not my concern but not sure what is different.


----------



## samandhi (Aug 4, 2022)

boromcom said:


> But I’m not sure which ohm I should order haha. I do normally use my earbuds with Megatron , ifi Diablo and Dap. So power to drive my earbuds is not my concern but not sure what is different.


Generally speaking, the higher impedance drivers will naturally have better separation, better precision, and less smear, but with a good driver and well tuned one, you may never know the difference. I have a 32 ohm driver that gives SOME higher impedance ones some envy.

I realize I am not making it any easier for you, but it is similar to multi driver IEMs. They are a bit easier to make sound good, because naturally they should have better separation but I have seen some well tuned single driver IEMs that put some of those to shame IMO.


----------



## boromcom

samandhi said:


> Generally speaking, the higher impedance drivers will naturally have better separation, better precision, and less smear, but with a good driver and well tuned one, you may never know the difference. I have a 32 ohm driver that gives SOME higher impedance ones some envy.
> 
> I realize I am not making it any easier for you, but it is similar to multi driver IEMs. They are a bit easier to make sound good, because naturally they should have better separation but I have seen some well tuned single driver IEMs that put some of those to shame IMO.


Thanks!


----------



## samandhi (Aug 4, 2022)

boromcom said:


> Thanks!


As for my personal preference (which I realize you didn't ask for hehe), I prefer mid to higher impedance. As to why, maybe it is an "in-my-head" thing because as was mentioned earlier, I have heard some REALLY good lower impedance stuff.

For instance, I have a set of Focal headphones. They are really low impedance and also really efficient, but Focal is known for their industry leading dynamics, separation, precision (they are just ridiculously priced ). Lucky for me, I got them for a steal..


----------



## davjac84

Ronion said:


> You can always add a mic with Sennheiser’s break out cable.  Sound Professionals also makes one.  Okay believe Drop.com carries Sennheiser one as a stock item.
> 
> PK32


Not sure what you are refering to, what's a break out cable?


----------



## mellowmoon

Is there a general recommendation for a bright (and cheap) earbud? Most of the cheap recommendations tend to be very warm or V-ish-shaped


----------



## Ronion

davjac84 said:


> Not sure what you are refering to, what's a break out cable?


This little device on sale right now on Amazon.


----------



## samandhi

mellowmoon said:


> Is there a general recommendation for a bright (and cheap) earbud? Most of the cheap recommendations tend to be very warm or V-ish-shaped


Hmm. I'm not sure where you are getting your recommendations, but most earbuds coming out of China (to my knowledge) are pretty bright, and are infrequently warm, and are rarely a "V" (I could be wrong on that though). 

Having said that, to better know what it is you are looking for and get better recommendations it would be pretty helpful if you answered this checklist.


----------



## rkw

Ronion said:


> This little device on sale right now on Amazon.


That's just a Y splitter cable. I thought the question was about adding a mic.

There are 3.5mm to 3.5mm cables with inline mic. For an earbud or IEM, you'll also need a female-to-female adapter.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0763HQK92?th=1
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01C9U3XI4/


----------



## Ronion (Aug 4, 2022)

rkw said:


> That's just a Y splitter cable. I thought the question was about adding a mic.
> 
> There are 3.5mm to 3.5mm cables with inline mic. For an earbud or IEM, you'll also need a female-to-female adapter.
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0763HQK92?th=1
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01C9U3XI4/


That’s not a Y cable in the traditional sense: you can’t plug 2 headphones into that.  You can however plug an electret condenser into the other end of the Y like I’ve done for years.  I’ve you look around on Amazon there are cheaper ones as well.

Really nice ones can be purchased here: https://soundprofessionals.com/product-category/microphones/

They’ll even custom build them to your specs.


----------



## davjac84

Ronion said:


> You can always add a mic with Sennheiser’s break out cable.  Sound Professionals also makes one.  Okay believe Drop.com carries Sennheiser one as a stock item.
> 
> PK32





Ronion said:


> This little device on sale right now on Amazon.





rkw said:


> That's just a Y splitter cable. I thought the question was about adding a mic.
> 
> There are 3.5mm to 3.5mm cables with inline mic. For an earbud or IEM, you'll also need a female-to-female adapter.
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0763HQK92?th=1
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01C9U3XI4/


Thanks for the tips. For me convenience and comfort is important. This solution is possible but not convenient 🤪 I rather use my mmcx buds instead 👍


----------



## o0genesis0o

Folks at VE are funny. I guess I should try a Monk.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Folks at VE are funny. I guess I should try a Monk.


OMG! That is pretty awesome.


----------



## boromcom

o0genesis0o said:


> Folks at VE are funny. I guess I should try a Monk.


Haha funny. You should try Asura 3.0 FE. Quite good.


----------



## o0genesis0o

boromcom said:


> Haha funny. You should try Asura 3.0 FE. Quite good.



Funny that you mentioned. I was planning the same. Though I might wait for Fiio FF5 first.

Btw, I just realised what F in FF3 means: Fiio Flat head.

FDx = Fiio Dynamic Driver
FAx = Fiio Balance Armature 
FHx = Fiio Hybrid


----------



## boromcom

o0genesis0o said:


> Funny that you mentioned. I was planning the same. Though I might wait for Fiio FF5 first.
> 
> Btw, I just realised what F in FF3 means: Fiio Flat head.
> 
> ...


I have FH9 and FD7. But I really love my FF3 haha. VE sun copper is good choice as well. But need Amplifier to drive. And don’t think it is good for bass lover.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Funny that you mentioned. I was planning the same. Though I might wait for Fiio FF5 first.
> 
> Btw, I just realised what F in FF3 means: Fiio Flat head.
> 
> ...


I want the FF5 already even though I’m completely happy with the FF3.  I’m hoping they add a little treble and resolution even if it means high impedance.  I’ll be bummed if it’s an FF3 with an mmcx.  This port they have works really well.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Aug 5, 2022)

Ronion said:


> I want the FF5 already even though I’m completely happy with the FF3.  I’m hoping they add a little treble and resolution even if it means high impedance.  I’ll be bummed if it’s an FF3 with an mmcx.  This port they have works really well.



Perhaps they will make it a cable up earbud, so that they can use the existing interchangeable plug cable with ear hooks rather than making a new cable. Knowing Fiio, maybe they will up the treble and bass as well to make the sound more "exciting"? I think whatever they make, they need to ensure that it is drivable by their KA1 dongle at least, so it's unlikely that we see a high impedance pair.

Who knows, maybe they are crazy enough to stick a BA driver in it like something from Smabat  

Edit: just realised that Smabat ST20pro is a disaster


----------



## fooltoque

Hi everyone. I am somewhat new to the pursuit of good sound, and a returnee to earbuds. I've tried many iems, all with varying levels of discomfort, and never found any that I can stand to wear for more than 20 minutes even though I really like some of them. So many headphones are focused on isolation, but outside of the most noisy environments (trains/planes), I don't actually like the feeling of being isolated sonically. I prefer to have my music seamlessly meshed in with the environment. I'm sure it is not uncommon in this thread. I recently found this thread, and I found a used pair of FiiO EM5s, and I'm really enjoying them! Thanks to all of you for letting me know that earbuds are still alive. 

Anyways, that is my intro, but I have a question too. While my EM5's are comfortable all day, I am kinda sensitive to materials, and the foam just gives an annoying feeling in m my ears. I'd actually prefer them without foam entirely despite slight pain after a while, but they sound better with foam in my opinion. Are there other options than foam for earbud covers that might be a bit more comfortable and have a similar affect on the sound?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 24, 2022)

I have been made aware of some rumblings and misgivings about the *sound signature chart* and would like to clear the air, as well as to open it up to you all for full discussion and critique. *This chart is most definitely open to any/all constructive criticism*.

*A WORK-IN-PROGRESS*
Please know that *@ian91* and I both do consider this chart to be a _work-in-progress_, a truly living document currently only in it's infancy. *We fully accept that it will undergo many radical changes along the way to reach a final useable state*. Really, such a chart is like the mythical "golden goose" that so many have searched for and failed to capture... mostly because they were too determined to make it absolutely perfect and/or stubbornly wanting it to fit every known transducer signature type across all transducer mediums. Most likely an impossibility for a number of audiological reasons there simply will always be a few exceptions and those special cases where the chart will fail and/or not completely work. As long as we all understand and accept that we can get pretty damn close to perfecting it through our continued collective determination and thoughtful patience.

So honestly, any/all suggestions, varying perspectives, and difference in opinions are welcome and will be fully heard out and considered without defensive reaction from our part as we truly want to perfect this chart for the benefit of the entire earbud (and headphone) community.

*DISCLOSURE*
Also, for full disclosure, a very well-known senior recording engineer (who wishes to remain anonymous for the time being) has been assisting us with this chart and has been using it in a master recording classes that he has been conducting. So we been receiving some very valuable advice from him and his students whom have offered us a many brilliant suggestion and correction that have proven quite helpful.

*ONE REQUEST
It is crucial that one does not interpret this chart two-dimensionally but rather views it three-dimensionally using all axes offered*. Optimally, this would have been best presented as a sphere or better yet as a circular spiral but in-turn that would have made it extremely difficult to clearly see and to read all the section labels. Literally losing everyone in 3D space. Thus, we are limited to presenting it in two-dimensions for the sake of clarity and ease of presentation.

Please note that we tried our best to stick to the "classic" (more basic) sound signature & tuning characteristic definitions as used by recording professionals & audio engineers and tried our best to avoid ambiguous, hard to agree upon, and/or controversial audiophile terminologies. However, if a solid argument can be made and agreed upon by the majority to add certain terms to the chart it will be done without hesitation and the reverse is true, removing any agreed upon terms that are confusing or creating interpretation or plotting conflicts.



Spoiler: SOUND SIGNATURE CHARTS v9.1










https://docs.google.com/presentatio...ouid=112600326893555981613&rtpof=true&sd=true


----------



## baskingshark

fooltoque said:


> Hi everyone. I am somewhat new to the pursuit of good sound, and a returnee to earbuds. I've tried many iems, all with varying levels of discomfort, and never found any that I can stand to wear for more than 20 minutes even though I really like some of them. So many headphones are focused on isolation, but outside of the most noisy environments (trains/planes), I don't actually like the feeling of being isolated sonically. I prefer to have my music seamlessly meshed in with the environment. I'm sure it is not uncommon in this thread. I recently found this thread, and I found a used pair of FiiO EM5s, and I'm really enjoying them! Thanks to all of you for letting me know that earbuds are still alive.
> 
> Anyways, that is my intro, but I have a question too. While my EM5's are comfortable all day, I am kinda sensitive to materials, and the foam just gives an annoying feeling in m my ears. I'd actually prefer them without foam entirely despite slight pain after a while, but they sound better with foam in my opinion. Are there other options than foam for earbud covers that might be a bit more comfortable and have a similar affect on the sound?



Yes there are silicone covers you can get to put over a earbud. See the photo below:



They however, will change the sound signature compared to full foams. Generally full foams give more bass and warmth and tame the higher frequencies.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 5, 2022)

Here is an example of how the chart (just mentioned in my post above) can be used to help plot a transducer's sound signature and offer an accompanying perspective to the classic FR graph.

*Ks Bell-LBBs Sound Signature Chart*





*Ks Bell-LBBs Sound Signature Plot*

_Primary_ = *Mid-Centric - Neutral*​_Secondary (Strong)_ = *Warm *(not muddy, nor muffled)​_Secondary (Weak)_ = *Sharp & Detailed*​_Tertiary (Complementing) _= *Hard-Harsh *(enhanced female vocals; sometimes aggressive though)​_Tertiary (Alternative Complementing) _= *Forward Mids - W-Shaped *(while others may only hear a slight *"Inverted U-Shaped"* instead)​_Tertiary (Opposing)_ = *Hard-Harsh *(not overly bright-sibilant it can get "too exciting" for those sensitive to highs)​_Tertiary (Opposing) _= *Thin & Tinny *(prone to aggressiveness)​​*Breakdown of Ks Bell-LBBs Sound Signature Plot*

The *primary sound signature* _(red dot and red-shaded oval)_ of the* Ks Bell-LBBs* is "*mid-centric - neutral*" that may offer an ever so slight "*inverted u-shaped*" type tuning with a very *strong secondary sound signature*_ (larger blue shaded balloon) _that reaches out to "*warm*" but is far from being muddy, smeared, or muffled. A non-overpowering *weak secondary sound signature*_ (smaller blue shaded balloon) _reaches out to "*detailed*" for greater resolution and more realistic, natural-sounding timbre. Prominent *complementing tertiary sound characteristics *_(green shaded arrows)_ are exhibited in the upper mids and very lower treble that may/can come across as being rather "_*hard-harsh*_" but in-turn also provides enhanced female vocals and reproduction of bright-leaning instruments. Due to mildly recessed mid and upper highs a sneaky and quite "*aggressive*" ("*thin & tinny*") *opposing tertiary sound characteristic *_(green shaded arrow)_ may rear it's ugly head occasionally with certain recordings and music genres. Some individuals may hear an *alternative* *complementing tertiary sound characteristics *_(purple shaded arrow) _which reaches down to *forward mids* ("*w-shaped*" type sound) while others may hear only a very slight "*inverted u-shaped*" type tuning (I sit in this camp).​

*Why do I plot the Ks Bell-LBBs primary sound signature as "mid-centric - neutral"?*

Flathead earbuds' *primary sound signature* are generally *mid-centric *_(please view the chart above as this area is quite large) _as it is inherent of and intrinsic to this transducer medium's open-air (open-back like) design. That said many flathead earbuds can and do exhibit VERY strong secondary characteristics that pull their overall sound signature far away from the primary signature into other quadrants (other areas) on the chart (e.g. L-Shape (Basshead); V-Shape; Female Poison; etc.).​


----------



## rprodrigues

WoodyLuvr said:


> I have been made aware of some rumblings and misgivings about my *sound signature chart* and would like to clear the air, as well as to open it up to you all for full discussion and critique. *This chart is most definitely open to any/all constructive criticism*.
> 
> *A WORK-IN-PROGRESS*
> Please know that *@ian91* and I both do consider this chart (v9.0) to be a _work-in-progress_, a truly living document only in it's infancy. *We fully accept that it will undergo many radical changes along the way to reach a final useable state*. Really, such a chart is like the mythical "golden goose" that so many have chased and failed to capture... mostly because they were too determined to make it absolutely perfect and/or stubbornly wanting it to fit every known transducer signature type across all transducer mediums. Most likely an impossibility for a number of audiological reasons there simply will always be a few exceptions and cases where the chart will fail and/or not completely work. As long as we all understand and accept that we can get pretty damn close to perfecting it through our continued collective determination and thoughtful patience.
> ...


That's an amazing work!


----------



## fooltoque

baskingshark said:


> Yes there are silicone covers you can get to put over a earbud. See the photo below:
> 
> 
> 
> They however, will change the sound signature compared to full foams. Generally full foams give more bass and warmth and tame the higher frequencies.


Hmmm... I wonder if I could slip one of those over the foams to get the sound benefit of the foams while having only the silicon touch my ears.


----------



## iron2k

Thanks @RikudouGoku


----------



## Ronion

fooltoque said:


> Hmmm... I wonder if I could slip one of those over the foams to get the sound benefit of the foams while having only the silicon touch my ears.


Many have tried-or t lest I have LOL.  No success no success.


----------



## Eduardiofilo

Ronion said:


> Did you try thin foams?  I always find donut foams too hot in the upper mids and treble, but the thin foams are somewhere between the balanced and the donuts.
> 
> if you are still not happy with them, just get an e12 Monte Blanc LOL.  I laugh, but I’m sort of serious.


27.17 MXN$  32%de DESCUENTO | Repuesto de cubierta de almohadillas para auriculares, esponja negra, 100 unidades
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOR2eLQ

Recently I bought that pack of thin foams. I really like them. It's more balanced and you can hear more details that get lost with thick or semithick foams


----------



## WoodyLuvr

fooltoque said:


> Hmmm... I wonder if I could slip one of those over the foams to get the sound benefit of the foams while having only the silicon touch my ears.


All About Flathead Earbud Cushions


----------



## nymz

WoodyLuvr said:


> Here is an example of how the chart (just mentioned in my post above) can be used to help plot a transducer's sound signature and offering an accompanying perspective to the classic FR graph.
> 
> *Ks Bell-LBBs Sound Signature Chart*
> 
> ...



"To build may have to be the slow and laborious task of years. To destroy can be the thoughtless act of a single day." Churchill

You were here when they arrived, you will be here when they leave. 

Your work will stay for years and you'll be missed when you leave. Others will be forgotten.

Thanks for all your work. Thanks to Ian as well!


----------



## madeyasay (Aug 5, 2022)

Hi everyone, like probably a couple of other members I'm a long time Sennheiser MX 365 user that didn't realize there's still a world of "normal" earbuds out there. I recently decided to try an IEM for the first time (Moondrop Aria), and while they do sound good, I can't get over the isolated/underwater/earplug feeling. So I came across this thread but now I'm overwhelmed by all the options and stuck with severe analysis paralysis.. 


*budget* about $100-150 max
*source* smartphone (Xiaomi Mi 9T) and laptop (XMG Core 17) with Apple USB-C dongle, but willing to spend +-$100 on a DAC if it can make a clearly noticeable difference
*preferred connection* _balanced e.g. 3.5TRS, 4.4TRRS, 2.5TRRS_ - I don't know what this means 🙈
*listening level & session length* medium volume I think? Definitely not too loud. Session length varies, but a couple of hours is no exception
*listening environment* mobile, office, home when I don't feel like using my headphones
*preferred music genre *mainly jazz and hip-hop
*preferred shell and foam-cushion type* I have actually never considered this, so no preference
*preferred sound signature i* Not sure.. Warm? I think? I like punchy kickdrums and nice bass (not over the top boomy, but just like it was intended, if that makes sense)
*preferred sound signature ii* -
_*preferred brand*_ open to anything
*any special need and/or consideration* -

Because there are so many options, and I know so little, I just kind of randomly picked a few that I came across and received positive reactions:

- Fengru EMX500
- Fengru TC300
- Fiio FF3
- Smabat ST-10s Gold/Black
- Yinman 600 ohm

There's a very big price difference between the first 2 and the rest, and I have no idea if that's actually reflected in the quality of the product. Even if the Fengrus aren't durable for example, I can get 10 of them for the price as 1 set of Smabats. So is the sound quality that much better?
For some reason I have a slight preference for the FF3s. But I don't even know why, no arguments aside from reading some reviews (in which there are also downsides to them). But then maybe I should wait for the FF5, and what if the cheaper pairs are actually pretty close in sound quality, or the slightly more expensive pairs are actually a pretty big step up, or... I just don't know! 
Are these all decent and a step up from my old MX 365? As I mentioned, I picked these pretty randomly so I'm open to any suggestions!


----------



## ian91 (Aug 5, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> I have been made aware of some rumblings and misgivings about my *sound signature chart* and would like to clear the air, as well as to open it up to you all for full discussion and critique. *This chart is most definitely open to any/all constructive criticism*.
> 
> *A WORK-IN-PROGRESS*
> Please know that *@ian91* and I both do consider this chart (v9.0) to be a _work-in-progress_, a truly living document only in it's infancy. *We fully accept that it will undergo many radical changes along the way to reach a final useable state*. Really, such a chart is like the mythical "golden goose" that so many have searched for and failed to capture... mostly because they were too determined to make it absolutely perfect and/or stubbornly wanting it to fit every known transducer signature type across all transducer mediums. Most likely an impossibility for a number of audiological reasons there simply will always be a few exceptions and those special cases where the chart will fail and/or not completely work. As long as we all understand and accept that we can get pretty damn close to perfecting it through our continued collective determination and thoughtful patience.
> ...



It has truly been a pleasure to work with @WoodyLuvr on this. There have been many 'ah-hah!' moments that have brought a smile to my face where @WoodyLuvr has managed to clarify, verbalise and give structure to thoughts I would otherwise have struggled to. 

There was a period some time ago where it looked like you were leaving Head-Fi and it was quite upsetting to think what we would lose. The value you bring, @WoodyLuvr, does not go unnoticed and we're all richer for it. You have a passion for sound, a generous heart, keen ears and a systematic mind.

As for the chart, I too welcome comments and hope to see it refined further with our communities collective insight. 

Cheers!


----------



## Chessnaudio

ian91 said:


> It has truly been a pleasure to work with @WoodyLuvr on this. There have been many 'ah-hah!' moments that have brought a smile to my face where @WoodyLuvr has managed to clarify, verbalise and give structure to thoughts I would otherwise have struggled to.
> 
> There was a period some time ago where it looked like you were leaving Head-Fi and it was quite upsetting to think what we would lose. The value you bring, @WoodyLuvr, does not go unnoticed and we're all richer for it. You have a passion for sound, a generous heart, keen ears and a systematic mind.
> 
> ...


Amen to that. What @WoodyLuvr contributes, tabulated, and organizes makes it an easy entry into earbuds. And by far the most informative and engaging thread. I myself have learnt a lot on the journey.


----------



## Chessnaudio

WoodyLuvr said:


> I have been made aware of some rumblings and misgivings about my *sound signature chart* and would like to clear the air, as well as to open it up to you all for full discussion and critique. *This chart is most definitely open to any/all constructive criticism*.
> 
> *A WORK-IN-PROGRESS*
> Please know that *@ian91* and I both do consider this chart (v9.0) to be a _work-in-progress_, a truly living document only in it's infancy. *We fully accept that it will undergo many radical changes along the way to reach a final useable state*. Really, such a chart is like the mythical "golden goose" that so many have searched for and failed to capture... mostly because they were too determined to make it absolutely perfect and/or stubbornly wanting it to fit every known transducer signature type across all transducer mediums. Most likely an impossibility for a number of audiological reasons there simply will always be a few exceptions and those special cases where the chart will fail and/or not completely work. As long as we all understand and accept that we can get pretty damn close to perfecting it through our continued collective determination and thoughtful patience.
> ...


Please do not take it to heart. Your hard work is appreciated by many. Your thorough breakdown of earbuds has converted many newbies into knowledgeable audiophiles  and helped their journey.


----------



## samandhi (Aug 5, 2022)

fooltoque said:


> Hmmm... I wonder if I could slip one of those over the foams to get the sound benefit of the foams while having only the silicon touch my ears.


I have successfully done that, though it takes some care, but isn't really that hard once you figure out how it works. I have also done the same with foams and then ear hooks, which are the same as far as how they go on. Here are some photos:



Spoiler


















madeyasay said:


> Hi everyone, like probably a couple of other members I'm a long time Sennheiser MX 365 user that didn't realize there's still a world of "normal" earbuds out there. I recently decided to try an IEM for the first time (Moondrop Aria), and while they do sound good, I can't get over the isolated/underwater/earplug feeling. So I came across this thread but now I'm overwhelmed by all the options and stuck with severe analysis paralysis..
> 
> 
> *budget* about $100-150 max
> ...


While the Smabat ST10S B&G has some excellent bass, it is more sub-bass focused, and they aren't warm IMO (though they are fantastic in their way).

I would have rec'ed the Yinman 2.0 600 (even if you hadn't put them on the list) for their deep bass, but not overly done, and their warm nature (while still remaining very clear). These happen to be my favorite of the buds that I have. You will need some power to push them as they are indeed 600 ohms. You CAN drive them from a lower power source, and get plenty of volume, but they scale very well with power. You don't really need anything outrageous for these though IMHO.

Edit: From your current setup, you probably have a 3.5mm connector (that is single ended). A balanced connection is usually 2.5mm or 4.4 mm, and you can tell because it will have 3 black rings rather than 2 (for single ended). The main difference is that single ended connections share a ground, where balanced does not.

But what makes all the difference (mainly in portable) is that a balanced connection usually has much more power output than single ended. Hope that helps?!


----------



## samandhi

Chessnaudio said:


> Amen to that. What @WoodyLuvr contributes, tabulated, and organizes makes it an easy entry into earbuds. And by far the most informative and engaging thread. I myself have learnt a lot on the journey.





Chessnaudio said:


> Please do not take it to heart. Your hard work is appreciated by many. Your thorough breakdown of earbuds has converted many newbies into knowledgeable audiophiles  and helped their journey.


I couldn't have said it better myself. He (as well as quite a few others) is/are invaluable in this community, that is for darned sure!


----------



## Ronion

madeyasay said:


> Hi everyone, like probably a couple of other members I'm a long time Sennheiser MX 365 user that didn't realize there's still a world of "normal" earbuds out there. I recently decided to try an IEM for the first time (Moondrop Aria), and while they do sound good, I can't get over the isolated/underwater/earplug feeling. So I came across this thread but now I'm overwhelmed by all the options and stuck with severe analysis paralysis..
> 
> 
> *budget* about $100-150 max
> ...


I’m going to recommend the FF3, but I’m going to say you should get the Venture Electronics Ex Pack, or Ex Pack Lite and use the foams.  FiiO’s foams are high quality, but make the bud too dark for me.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Second @Ronion , the full foams supplied by Fiio negatively impact their sound quality. The donut foams are okay for me, but I’m looking forward to try more foams in the future.

@madeyasay : if you can get a proper fit with FF3, that little earphone would surprise you a lot. I don’t feel lacking on any aspect when using it instead of my Andromeda 2020.


----------



## fooltoque

samandhi said:


> I have successfully done that, though it takes some care, but isn't really that hard once you figure out how it works. I have also done the same with foams and then ear hooks, which are the same as far as how they go on. Here are some photos:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





samandhi said:


> I have successfully done that, though it takes some care, but isn't really that hard once you figure out how it works. I have also done the same with foams and then ear hooks, which are the same as far as how they go on. Here are some photos:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That looks perfect. I'm definitely trying that


----------



## samandhi

fooltoque said:


> That looks perfect. I'm definitely trying that


And, depending on the set these aren't too bad (though they aren't good at all on some sets):



Spoiler


----------



## o0genesis0o

iron2k said:


> Thanks @RikudouGoku



Hi, can you compare that pair of earphones with your Trio and U12t? I’m curious about the bass and staging, since RikudouGoku loves good bass. I wonder how his bass head earbuds compare.


----------



## SBranson

Time for a bit of @tgx78 ‘s TGXEar Tantalus shilling..  ha ha.
Keith Jarrett new album due out in October but the first released track is out and it sounds great on the Tantalus.  Piano timbre is wonderful..


----------



## SBranson

And this came on randomly afterwards..  Tantalus is made for this stuff


----------



## iron2k

o0genesis0o said:


> Hi, can you compare that pair of earphones with your Trio and U12t? I’m curious about the bass and staging, since RikudouGoku loves good bass. I wonder how his bass head earbuds compare.


I'm enjoying it so much, amazing bass in this earbuds... I'm impressed, they are really worth it. 

I will try to compare them on Sunday, but for know I can tell you that this set I good basshead quality better than my Blur Dark Chocolate.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Regarding the foams on FF3, I have to take my words back about balanced foam: they don't kill the resolution _that_ much after volume matching. The whole sound signature becomes thicker and darker for sure, but the transient responses are not overly dampened to the point of dropping FF3 to the level of an average IEM like Aria. There is a bit of loss, but not that bad.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Regarding the foams on FF3, I have to take my words back about balanced foam: they don't kill the resolution _that_ much after volume matching. The whole sound signature becomes thicker and darker for sure, but the transient responses are not overly dampened to the point of dropping FF3 to the level of an average IEM like Aria. There is a bit of loss, but not that bad.


I continue to be impressed as well.  I’ve just started listening to my other buds since buying them and nothing has changed.  If I had one complaint, I wish they had made them lighter Weight.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> If I had one complaint, I wish they had made them lighter Weight.



I'm looking forward to try the old MX500 shell and see how it goes.

Maybe it's shallow, but coming from the colourful world of IEM, I'm very disappointed by the appearance of these ear buds. When I make ear buds one day, I would try to make them over-ear, give them fancy metal shells and braided cables. Though there must be a reason why people stick to the same old plastic shells.


----------



## mt877

Found this new buds while browsing AE. @WoodyLuvr, didn't see it listed in the Flathead Timeline.

Lun Sheng YE01 - 16 Ohm
Technology provided by smabat Technology


----------



## yaps66

mt877 said:


> Found this new buds while browsing AE. @WoodyLuvr, didn't see it listed in the Flathead Timeline.
> 
> Lun Sheng YE01 - 16 Ohm
> Technology provided by smabat Technology


Interesting that it is 2-pin!


----------



## FranQL (Aug 6, 2022)

mt877 said:


> Found this new buds while browsing AE. @WoodyLuvr, didn't see it listed in the Flathead Timeline.
> 
> Lun Sheng YE01 - 16 Ohm
> Technology provided by smabat Technology


They remember me faceplate E1008

LCP comp 16 Ohm, I don't think I ever saw that driver, so something new it has, too expensive to risk, but the shell and the 2-pin connection seem very attractive to me


----------



## WoodyLuvr

mt877 said:


> Found this new buds while browsing AE. @WoodyLuvr, didn't see it listed in the Flathead Timeline.
> 
> Lun Sheng YE01 - 16 Ohm
> Technology provided by smabat Technology


Good catch! Looks like they just released last month too!


FranQL said:


> They remember me faceplate E1008


Totally! A cross between the 2016 - 1More (Xiaomi) E1008 (32Ω) and the 2019 - Ourart QJ21 (45Ω)


----------



## madeyasay (Aug 6, 2022)

samandhi said:


> While the Smabat ST10S B&G has some excellent bass, it is more sub-bass focused, and they aren't warm IMO (though they are fantastic in their way).
> 
> I would have rec'ed the Yinman 2.0 600 (even if you hadn't put them on the list) for their deep bass, but not overly done, and their warm nature (while still remaining very clear). These happen to be my favorite of the buds that I have. You will need some power to push them as they are indeed 600 ohms. You CAN drive them from a lower power source, and get plenty of volume, but they scale very well with power. You don't really need anything outrageous for these though IMHO.
> 
> ...





Ronion said:


> I’m going to recommend the FF3, but I’m going to say you should get the Venture Electronics Ex Pack, or Ex Pack Lite and use the foams.  FiiO’s foams are high quality, but make the bud too dark for me.





o0genesis0o said:


> Second @Ronion , the full foams supplied by Fiio negatively impact their sound quality. The donut foams are okay for me, but I’m looking forward to try more foams in the future.
> 
> @madeyasay : if you can get a proper fit with FF3, that little earphone would surprise you a lot. I don’t feel lacking on any aspect when using it instead of my Andromeda 2020.


Thanks to all of you! I've just ordered the recommended foams, no matter what I end up with, they should come in handy.
So it's either FF3 or Yinman 2.0. A big (non-technical) advantage the FF3 has is that I can order them, and return for free if needed. For Yinman I'm going in relatively blind (or deaf) for a higher price and can't return them. Of course they are very well received and reviewed here so the chance that I would want to return them is pretty slim.


----------



## 0b0d0

> Totally! A cross between the 2016 - 1More (Xiaomi) E1008 (32Ω) and the 2019 - Ourart QJ21 (45Ω)


Those reminds me i'd really like to ear your thoughts on the Hessian Ansata Pro, Mr. WoodyLuvr, if you got to listen to them. Became my favs (for gaming purpose, at least). It amazed me when i tried them after my using my EBX first gen,  which i used to think  were giving me a clear sound... Not so much, they were just harsh, in retrospective.
And, like many others, got to thank you for your huge work here.
(Side note, I've recently listened to the Qian 69 and i clearly prefer the RW-9).


----------



## mt877 (Aug 6, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> I'm looking forward to try the old MX500 shell and see how it goes.
> 
> Maybe it's shallow, but coming from the colourful world of IEM, I'm very disappointed by the appearance of these ear buds. When I make ear buds one day, I would try to make them over-ear, give them fancy metal shells and braided cables. Though there must be a reason why people stick to the same old plastic shells.


The Sennheiser MX500 platform has proven to be an enduring design (kind of like the AR-15 of the earbuds world). The shells, most common 15.4mm transducers, tuning foams and papers made for the MX500 shell are relatively low cost. Many hobbyist, seller DIYers and earbud manufacturers have had great success with the MX500 platform, turning out some really great and some not so great sounding MX500 based buds. Of course everyone yearns to create their own designs and some do it eventually, but until then you have the old standby, the AR-15 of the earbuds world, the venerable Sennheiser MX500 shell waiting to be called into service for your future earbud building adventures.


----------



## o0genesis0o

I finally finished revamping my ranking list and also the rating for FF3. 

Surprise surprise, the humble pair of ear buds stays up there amongst the kilobuck IEM. Best of luck to Fiio to top this level of performance.


----------



## yaps66

o0genesis0o said:


> I finally finished revamping my ranking list and also the rating for FF3.
> 
> Surprise surprise, the humble pair of ear buds stays up there amongst the kilobuck IEM. Best of luck to Fiio to top this level of performance.


Wow! High praise indeed!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 6, 2022)

0b0d0 said:


> Those reminds me i'd really like to ear your thoughts on the Hessian Ansata Pro, Mr. WoodyLuvr, if you got to listen to them. Became my favs (for gaming purpose, at least). It amazed me when i tried them after my using my EBX first gen,  which i used to think  were giving me a clear sound... Not so much, they were just harsh, in retrospective.
> And, like many others, got to thank you for your huge work here.
> (Side note, I've recently listened to the Qian 69 and i clearly prefer the RW-9).


The *HESSIAN 黑塞 ansata Pro* is made by the same man who makes ISN Audio and Ourart and it is a cross between the Ourart Ti7, Ourart ACG, ISN Audio Rambo II, and the original HESSIAN 黑塞 ansata ☥. I found the bass to be too rolled off and weak for my liking on the ansata Pro. Although, it is far from being harsh, sibilant, or bright which I tend to like the treble is actually a little bit too quiet... not quite recessed but very toned down which causes it to lose some sparkle and airiness in the highs if that makes any sense at all. The midrange is where it is all at with these earbuds... the mids exhibit awesome imaging, remarkable separation, satisfactory timbre, and sharp clarity... and thus quite understandable why you like it for long gaming sessions. This earbud is virtually fatigue-free! I can not recall who made the comparison to the *2018 - Yincrow RW-9; 32Ω* but I would agree with that assertion that the ansata Pro sounds very similar to that especially in the treble region. Very hard to put foams on these earbuds similar to Turandot and Chaconne... nimble fingers required.

2017 - Ourart Ti7; 32Ω​2018 - Ourart ACG; 35Ω​2019 - ISN Audio Rambo; 32Ω​2019 - ISN Audio Rambo II; 32Ω​2019 - Ourart QJ21; 45Ω​2020 - HESSIAN 黑塞 ansata ☥; 32Ω​2021 - HESSIAN 黑塞 ansata Pro; 35Ω​


----------



## mt877 (Aug 6, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> I finally finished revamping my ranking list and also the rating for FF3.
> 
> Surprise surprise, the humble pair of ear buds stays up there amongst the kilobuck IEM. Best of luck to Fiio to top this level of performance.


When I open the ranking list link I see a ranking list, but the FF3 is not listed? I see FiiO FH3 though.

Strike that... @WoodyLuvr pointed me in the right direction...


----------



## mt877

FranQL said:


> They remember me faceplate E1008
> 
> LCP comp 16 Ohm, I don't think I ever saw that driver, so something new it has, too expensive to risk, but the shell and the 2-pin connection seem very attractive to me


When I first saw the Lun Sheng YE01 I think the price was showing around US $76, now price is showing US $48. I don't think I am imagining the price drop. Maybe we have hidden store owner friends which read this earbuds thread?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

mt877 said:


> When I open the ranking list link I see a ranking list, but the FF3 is not listed? I see FiiO FH3 though.


Click on "Ranking" the next tab/sheet; line 4


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> I'm looking forward to try the old MX500 shell and see how it goes.
> 
> Maybe it's shallow, but coming from the colourful world of IEM, I'm very disappointed by the appearance of these ear buds. When I make ear buds one day, I would try to make them over-ear, give them fancy metal shells and braided cables. Though there must be a reason why people stick to the same old plastic shells.


The MX500 shell isn’t that good, but it’s “good enough”.  It has more variants than the modern virus and not all of them are created equal.  The shape is decent, fit is pretty good, the bass capabilities are decent, but the PK, Docomo, DP100, hybrid, and Lite all have advantages.  Unfortunately they cost more and are harder to get high quality driver for.  The PK and Lite essentially disappear in my ears and they measure more consistent than any other bud shells I’ve tried.  The SMABAT shells I’ve tried are the most inconsistent FWIW.  The MX500 is about average.   

I think you’ll have a hard time beating this FiiO.  I have been going back and trying the other foams… it’s an addictive bud and does make me curious as to what they are going to do for the FF5.  I could use this as an ‘only bud’, but I’m glad I have others.  It’s all day, all night listenable.


----------



## ValSuki

Testing some designs, used in jet engines to reduce certain frequencies and also in JVC spiral dots! Im getting them done in resin so I will show the final build! (If i remember haha)


Spoiler: Warning: looks a bit spooky!


----------



## mt877

mt877 said:


> When I open the ranking list link I see a ranking list, but the FF3 is not listed? I see FiiO FH3 though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for the pointer... didn't look at the bottom tabs.


----------



## Ronion

madeyasay said:


> Thanks to all of you! I've just ordered the recommended foams, no matter what I end up with, they should come in handy.
> So it's either FF3 or Yinman 2.0. A big (non-technical) advantage the FF3 has is that I can order them, and return for free if needed. For Yinman I'm going in relatively blind (or deaf) for a higher price and can't return them. Of course they are very well received and reviewed here so the chance that I would want to return them is pretty slim.


I think they are enjoyable no matter which foam you use at this time!  I will most interested in what you think of them.  The longer I listen to them, the more I like them, and I liked them straight out of the package.


----------



## lafeuill

Yinman 2.0 600 LE finally here, burning in.

Kit is R3 Pro LO to RSA F-35 in high gain. Gobbles up power. ^^

OOB already impressive, is all I can say for now.


----------



## Ronion (Aug 6, 2022)

Well, I did a little experiment this morning to see how the different FiiO Foams measured because what I was hearing is that the "bass" foams sounded a lot like the VE Foams.  Measurements say "yes they do".  Without question, some of this is due to how well they hold in my rig.  After seeing that the graph was nearly identical, I decided to try the balanced and crisp ones.  The "balanced" do no measure nearly as dark as I initially heard.  In fact they are brighter..... I was probably too quick to judge and had a bad seating or it was program material and my quick judgement.  Either way, give them time.  From the graph, you can see the "crisp" is the brightest in my rig, the "balanced" is in the middle, and the "bass" is perfection (kidding).












What I don't like about the ST20Pro:


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Found this new buds while browsing AE. @WoodyLuvr, didn't see it listed in the Flathead Timeline.
> 
> Lun Sheng YE01 - 16 Ohm
> Technology provided by smabat Technology


I really like the way they look. One has to wonder how they are tuned?


FranQL said:


> They remember me faceplate E1008
> 
> LCP comp 16 Ohm, I don't think I ever saw that driver, so something new it has, too expensive to risk, but the shell and the 2-pin connection seem very attractive to me


Indeed, it does have something new. Apparently, it comes with a catheter. ROFL (I love Chinese to English translations sometimes)


ValSuki said:


> Testing some designs, used in jet engines to reduce certain frequencies and also in JVC spiral dots! Im getting them done in resin so I will show the final build! (If i remember haha)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: looks a bit spooky!


Those look reminiscent of the Focal "closed" headphone design, based off of the same jet engine principle (which works very well for resonance reduction BTW). I think you might be on to something here. 

From what I have read about their design, a polymer, or plastic (where the dimples are at) works best (or absorb best) for resonance/frequency control over resin though. Food for thought. 



Spoiler: Focal Breakaway view


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Well, I did a little experiment this morning to see how the different FiiO Foams measured because what I was hearing is that the "bass" foams sounded a lot like the VE Foams.  Measurements say "yes they do".  Without question, some of this is due to how well they hold in my rig.  After seeing that the graph was nearly identical, I decided to try the balanced and crisp ones.  The "balanced" do no measure nearly as dark as I initially heard.  In fact they are brighter..... I was probably too quick to judge and had a bad seating or it was program material and my quick judgement.  Either way, give them time.  From the graph, you can see the "crisp" is the brightest in my rig, the "balanced" is in the middle, and the "bass" is perfection (kidding).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


MAN! That ST20..... Just WOW! Those will definitely kill your ears quick if you listen with any volume.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> MAN! That ST20..... Just WOW! Those will definitely kill your ears quick if you listen with any volume.


At 2.4 kHz they are around 20dB over the FiiO and my target!  That’s what I mean when I say ICE PICK!  Just brutal to my ears!  I cannot stress the brutality enough without a series of profane expressions.  The graph even looks like something aiming at your skull and you are strapped in your chair unable to move.  With EQ, they are actually great.  The drivers they use are brilliant, but the tuning will damage your hearing.  These FiiO are just the opposite: relaxed yet detailed and spacious.  They never irritate me and that’s impressive.  Every genre, every recording is essentially what I want to hear all day.  The FF5 is going to be interesting.


----------



## mt877 (Aug 6, 2022)

samandhi said:


> I really like the way they look. One has to wonder how they are tuned?
> 
> Indeed, it does have something new. Apparently, it comes with a catheter. ROFL (I love Chinese to English translations sometimes)


Here's the FR graph for Lun Sheng YE01. The asterick ' * ' note may be key...

"*The data is obtained from smabat laboratory test and is only for reference. Please refer to the actual experience"

Essentially meaning you gotta hear them to make a true judgement.






Here's a "3D" FR graph representation, the bass region looks different than the flat FR graph above.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 6, 2022)

iron2k said:


> I'm enjoying it so much, amazing bass in this earbuds... I'm impressed, they are really worth it.
> 
> I will try to compare them on Sunday, but for know I can tell you that this set I good basshead quality better than my Blur Dark Chocolate.


*RikuBuds* *Grand Berserker 2*, lucky you! Enjoy that next level bass... I thoroughly adore the bass presentation on my *RikuBuds* *Berserker 1*.

For those that don't know what the Blur Dark Chocolate is...

*2018 - Blur Dark Chocolate; MX 150Ω*​
BTW: Flatheads demand that you update your signature... listing your earbuds preferably right above IEMs or better yet simply delete the IEMs !


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> At 2.4 kHz they are around 20dB over the FiiO and my target!  That’s what I mean when I say ICE PICK!  Just brutal to my ears!  I cannot stress the brutality enough without a series of profane expressions.  The graph even looks like something aiming at your skull and you are strapped in your chair unable to move.  With EQ, they are actually great.  The drivers they use are brilliant, but the tuning will damage your hearing.  These FiiO are just the opposite: relaxed yet detailed and spacious.  They never irritate me and that’s impressive.  Every genre, every recording is essentially what I want to hear all day.  The FF5 is going to be interesting.


Well, I guess I'll just have to try them (the FiiO) so I can compare them to the Yinman then huh? 



Spoiler: bunch of arm twisters












mt877 said:


> Here's the FR graph for Lun Sheng YE01. The asterick ' * ' note may be key...
> 
> "*The data is obtained from smabat laboratory test and is only for reference. Please refer to the actual experience"
> 
> ...


Definitely interesting. I look forward to reading someone's impressions of them.


----------



## mt877 (Aug 6, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Well, I did a little experiment this morning to see how the different FiiO Foams measured because what I was hearing is that the "bass" foams sounded a lot like the VE Foams.  Measurements say "yes they do".  Without question, some of this is due to how well they hold in my rig.  After seeing that the graph was nearly identical, I decided to try the balanced and crisp ones.  The "balanced" do no measure nearly as dark as I initially heard.  In fact they are brighter..... I was probably too quick to judge and had a bad seating or it was program material and my quick judgement.  Either way, give them time.  From the graph, you can see the "crisp" is the brightest in my rig, the "balanced" is in the middle, and the "bass" is perfection (kidding).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for measuring the FF3. It's very interesting. Like yourself I've been switching up the foams and have decided the balanced foams worked the best for the different types of music I listen too. The donut foams presented a little bright at times which annoyed me.

One thing I'm noticing with newer bud releases is that the rear vents in the shell are moved back so foams would not cover them. The FF3 has them on the rear portion of the housing. I am sure that helps balance the tonality of bass / mid-bass a bit more. I might try cutting some sections of foams for MX500 (Yincrow X6) shells so that the rear vent holes are not covered and see what they sound like. I guess an interesting exercise at best.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 7, 2022)

lafeuill said:


> Yinman 2.0 600 LE finally here, burning in.
> 
> Kit is R3 Pro LO to RSA F-35 in high gain. Gobbles up power. ^^
> 
> OOB already impressive, is all I can say for now.


Awesome! Your right down the rabbit hole now Alice and it is the place where everything begins!

"Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast" and the Longyao-Yinman 2.0 600 LE are certainly one of those impossible things!

Definitely try them on one of your desktop amps as well... they scale incredibly well!


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Thanks for measuring the FF3. It's very interesting. Like yourself I've been switching up the foams and have decided the balanced foams worked the best for the different types of music I listen too. The donut foams presented a little bright at times which annoyed me.
> 
> One thing I'm noticing with newer bud releases is that the rear vents in the shell are moved back so foams would not cover them. The FF3 has them on the rear portion of the housing. I am sure that helps balance the tonality of bass / mid-bass a bit more. I might try cutting some sections of foams for MX500 (Yincrow X6) shells so that the rear vent holes are not covered and see what they sound like. I guess an interesting exercise at best.


I am noticing that as well. I also think one of the interesting things about the FF3 is that the rear section has a glass covering. This reminds me of the 80's "Kicker" boxes under glass for car audio (which worked very well BTW).


----------



## samandhi (Aug 6, 2022)

lafeuill said:


> Yinman 2.0 600 LE finally here, burning in.
> 
> Kit is R3 Pro LO to RSA F-35 in high gain. Gobbles up power. ^^
> 
> OOB already impressive, is all I can say for now.


I certainly can't wait to read your impressions of them (good OR bad)...


----------



## mt877

The Lun Sheng YE01 FR graph looks very similar to the smabat M4 FR graph. Hmm, I wonder why...

smabat technology at work here. I guess both M4 and YE01 will need to be heard rather than interpreting the graphs to appreciate (or not) the sound quality.

M4 FR graph





YE01 FR graph


----------



## silverszi (Aug 6, 2022)

So I got my LBBs today
and I can't get them to sit in my ear, which leads to a very crappy tonality, with everything below 2000hz being too quiet but I've eq'd them and their instrument separation really is good from my few hours using them.
I also got the ve monk plus and they're muffled as hell, fine in fit though, I got the qian39 but haven't used them yet I was having "fun" eq'ing.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Well, I guess I'll just have to try them (the FiiO) so I can compare them to the Yinman then huh?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am definitely interested in what you hear through them.  For me, these are a top 5 bud in my collection.  They won’t beat you over the head with anything, but it’s all there.  They are the HD650 earbud with bass in that sense.  to really improve on these IMO, FiiO is going to have to push the earbud boundaries a bit.  Getting great bass in a single DD earbud without too much or too little pinna gain is a good trick.  It’s just what the doctor ordered.


----------



## Ronion

silverszi said:


> So I got my LBBs today
> and I can't get them to sit in my ear, which leads to a very crappy tonality, with everything below 2000hz being too quiet but I've eq'd them and their instrument separation really is good from my few hours using them.


You are not alone.  My measurement rig has the same issue.  Try putting some shark fins on them.


----------



## silverszi

Ronion said:


> You are not alone.  My measurement rig has the same issue.  Try putting some shark fins on them.


I don't have any fins unless I want to rip them off some 2000s earbuds lying in the junk drawer.
I'll see


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> I am noticing that as well. I also think one of the interesting things about the FF3 is that the rear section has a glass covering. This reminds me of the 80's "Kicker" boxes under glass for car audio (which worked very well BTW).


Well at least the glass covering and underlying design is classy, unlike the 7hz-x-crinacle-salnotes-dioko glass covering. And in a pinch if the glass cover fell out you could glue in an appropriately sized fancy Czech glass button.


----------



## silverszi

Ronion said:


> You are not alone.  My measurement rig has the same issue.  Try putting some shark fins on them.


don't have any
any recommendations for fin sets that fit their shell?


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> unlike the 7hz-x-crinacle-salnotes-dioko glass covering.


Oh, you mean the old lady's jewelry look? 


silverszi said:


> don't have any
> any recommendations for fin sets that fit their shell?


These are great:


Spoiler



https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0195OPLKK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 These are pliable enough that they can stretch to just about whatever size you want to use them with. But YMMV






And these for over-ear:


Spoiler



https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07B4HF18C/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 These may not work with that shell type. I am not sure I remember what they look like.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

Hi Folks!

I've been out of the forum for a while for personal reasons. I've been thinking about upgrading my Zoomfred (I love it!). Besides Red Dragon, any suggestions of a god TOTL?

Cheers!


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Oh, you mean the old lady's jewelry look?


Yep, that be the one. Good thing old lady perfume is not included in their package. Now nothing against old ladies, I know a few who are wonderful people.


----------



## samandhi

Marcos Fontana said:


> Hi Folks!
> 
> I've been out of the forum for a while for personal reasons. I've been thinking about upgrading my Zoomfred (I love it!). Besides Red Dragon, any suggestions of a god TOTL?
> 
> Cheers!


Since I have no idea what those sound like, I can only make general recommendations based on what I have heard.

Smabat ST10S Black & Gold
Rose Technics Maria II
Moondrop Chaconne
Yinman New 2.0 600
Yincrow RW2000
Yincrow RW3000

Maybe it has been long enough that you could fill out the 'THE CHECKLIST' FOR FLATHEAD EARBUD RECOMMENDATION REQUESTS for better recommendations?!


mt877 said:


> Yep, that be the one. Good thing old lady perfume is not included in their package. Now nothing against old ladies, I know a few who are wonderful people.


I quite agree. After all, just because they wear gaudy jewelry, doesn't make them bad people...


----------



## tgx78

Trying out the SMABAT 150ohm driver and it sounds quite interesting on mx500. A bit warmer sounding than I anticipated.


----------



## Marcos Fontana (Aug 6, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Since I have no idea what those sound like, I can only make general recommendations based on what I have heard.
> 
> Smabat ST10S Black & Gold
> Rose Technics Maria II
> ...


budget: ~ $500
source: AMP/DAC
preferred connection: any
listening level & session length: low and around 4h ~ 8h day
listening environment: home office
preferred music genre: indie, rock, folk, classic
preferred shell and foam-cushion type: standard mx500
preferred sound signature: flat like HD600
preferred sound signature: a bit v like Arya
preferred brand: any
any special need and/or consideration: I prefer mmcx, but it's not imperative

I forgot to mention that sound stage is really important. My Zoomfred is awesome in terms of sound stage.


----------



## o0genesis0o

tgx78 said:


> Trying out the SMABAT 150ohm driver and it sounds quite interesting on mx500. A bit warmer sounding than I anticipated.



That shell looks cool. Is that a custom back vent?


----------



## tgx78

o0genesis0o said:


> That shell looks cool. Is that a custom back vent?


Yes, drilled and vented.


----------



## samandhi

Marcos Fontana said:


> budget: ~ $500
> source: AMP/DAC
> preferred connection: any
> listening level & session length: low and around 4h ~ 8h day
> ...


In that case, none of the ones I suggested will do for you. The Yincrow RW2000 and Yinman 2.0 600 fit most categories except the shell type and V signature but are fairly flat across the board like the HD600 (though the Yinman are better than the Yincrow at low volume listening). The rest will not do well for your preferred genre because of the boosted pina gain and shell type (those are more W shaped anyhow). 

Not having owned a set that uses the MX500 shell, I'm afraid I can't make any suggestions beyond those I have already. Apologies! Someone here will come up with a great one, I am sure. The people here are super helpful... 

On the other hand, you could take a look at @WoodyLuvr's (no longer updated) god-tier level earbuds list to get you started on jumping back down the rabbit hole....


----------



## boromcom

Hi again everyone. Could EM5 compete with FF3?


----------



## samandhi

boromcom said:


> Hi again everyone. Could EM5 compete with FF3?


I don't think there are a ton of people here that have heard both, but you could check out this post from @mt877 regarding the FF3 and the EM5.


----------



## boromcom

samandhi said:


> I don't think there are a ton of people here that have heard both, but you could check out this post from @mt877 regarding the FF3 and the EM5.


Thx! Bro.


----------



## Ronion

silverszi said:


> don't have any
> any recommendations for fin sets that fit their shell?


The Venture electronics Ex Pack should have them.


----------



## Marcos Fontana

samandhi said:


> In that case, none of the ones I suggested will do for you. The Yincrow RW2000 and Yinman 2.0 600 fit most categories except the shell type and V signature but are fairly flat across the board like the HD600 (though the Yinman are better than the Yincrow at low volume listening). The rest will not do well for your preferred genre because of the boosted pina gain and shell type (those are more W shaped anyhow).
> 
> Not having owned a set that uses the MX500 shell, I'm afraid I can't make any suggestions beyond those I have already. Apologies! Someone here will come up with a great one, I am sure. The people here are super helpful...
> 
> On the other hand, you could take a look at @WoodyLuvr's (no longer updated) god-tier level earbuds list to get you started on jumping back down the rabbit hole....


A bit strange how cypherus audio was not mentioned in any list. Henry makes awesome earbus. He tunes each one, with the signature that you want. Thank you very much. I already have the Yinman and Yincrow but my zoomfred is in another level.


----------



## Ronion

@samandhi , you may want to wait until the FF5 comes out.  It may be better…


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 7, 2022)

Marcos Fontana said:


> budget: ~ $500
> source: AMP/DAC
> preferred connection: any
> listening level & session length: low and around 4h ~ 8h day
> ...





samandhi said:


> In that case, none of the ones I suggested will do for you. The Yincrow RW2000 and Yinman 2.0 600 fit most categories except the shell type and V signature but are fairly flat across the board like the HD600 (though the Yinman are better than the Yincrow at low volume listening). The rest will not do well for your preferred genre because of the boosted pina gain and shell type (those are more W shaped anyhow).
> 
> Not having owned a set that uses the MX500 shell, I'm afraid I can't make any suggestions beyond those I have already. Apologies! Someone here will come up with a great one, I am sure. The people here are super helpful...
> 
> On the other hand, you could take a look at @WoodyLuvr's (no longer updated) god-tier level earbuds list to get you started on jumping back down the rabbit hole....


_Welcome back
Your dreams were your ticket out
Welcome back
To that same old place that you laughed about

Well, the names have (not) all changed
Since you hung around
But those dreams have remained
And they've turned around_

For those who have no idea what I am on about...



Welcome back *@Marcos Fontana*! Besides the excellent recommendations that *@samandhi* gave you these days if you are after a god-tier in MX500 shell you should seriously consider a model from one of the following custom makers that are all very well regarded... I adore my *RikuBuds Berserker 1* and I am waiting for my highly regarded *tgxear Tantalus MMCX* to arrive.

*TGXEAR* made by *@tgx78 *​*RikuBuds* made by *@RikudouGoku *(full model descriptions)​*Newbsound formerly BBB - Bisoy Buds Black* made by *@irv003 *​
And *Blur* (more info here) is still around as well and now on 4th Generation tuning.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 7, 2022)

Marcos Fontana said:


> A bit strange how cypherus audio was not mentioned in any list. Henry makes awesome earbus. He tunes each one, with the signature that you want. Thank you very much. I already have the Yinman and Yincrow but my zoomfred is in another level.


A lot of our lists and rankings are really about what was/is available... especially currently. My earbud god-tier list, when I maintained it, was always reflective of what was available and could be purchased in a reasonable time period. So many models appeared and disappeared on that particular list as time went by.

*Cypherus Audio (CAX)*

Herry at Cypherus Audio has been rather inactive the past few years, besides the few mods he made during the pandemic, he has been busy with other business and family life. I am currently working with him; commissioning a special custom earbud project. Very excited to say the least. Will keep all posted once it starts to move along which will take some time... again due to his busy life at the moment.


----------



## Fargeg

Since objective measurements seem extremely unreliable when it comes to flatheads, I'd like to gather people's subjective impressions to get a better idea of how technical their earbuds sound.



So my simple go-to treble detail/microdynamics test is the percussion playing at *1:14-1:26* of _*Night Club Junkie*_ by *YUC'e*. On TOTL-fi like the *Sennheiser HD800S* or *Hifiman HEKv2*, you get a distinct, crisp, well-articulated *TSK!* with a tiny bit of outwards-expanding reverb at the end. The less technical gear is, the further it tends to deviate from this.
Budget or consumer stuff like the *Koss KSC75* or the *Razer Opus* typically goes *T!* or *K!* Midrange gear with flawed upper treble such as the *Shure SRH840* often exhibits blunted attack, going *TK!* or *TsK!*​
Tribrid IEMs suffering from soft, wispy treble such as the *ThieAudio Clairvoyance* or *Moondrop Variations* go *Tskh.* with overextended, slightly smeared-together transients. IEMs with poor treble extension such as the *JVC HA-FDX1* lack the trail-off, with the strikes both starting and stopping at the center of the stage.​​​
Also, on gear with excellent bass like the *Hifiman HEKv2*, the bassline at *0:41-1:12* both has tactility and a distinct sine-wavey quality to it, as if you were listening to a tone generator, instead of sounding smeared and/or limp. There's also audible frequency variation, with the bassline playing at a higher frequency at *0:41-0:56* than at *0:58-1:12*.


As for imaging, I mainly use this sound test. On something like the *HD800S*, the piano key crossover at *0:33* is very distinct with no smearing at the center. Also, the percussion from *0:36* onward doesn't sound blobby, blurry, or smeared. Staging-wise, the piano starts playing from slightly beyond my ears horizontally, and the percussion extends slightly forward beyond my face.


I'm curious about what people are hearing in these respects with their earbud + foam pairings at their ideal position + angle.


----------



## o0genesis0o

For micro details and treble resolution stuffs:



I would focus on Visiting Hours (from 14:20). For treble details, I would pay attention to the chimes. Can you hear distinct sound or a blob of high-pitched sound? Now focus on the backup vocals. Can you hear what they sing? Can you hear with nuanced or just some slightly fuzzy vocal line? Most 64 Audio IEMs have a tuning trick (TIA treble) that dips 10k and boost 15k significantly, effectively pushing the background vocal further away and sharpening them up, giving 64 Audio that unique stereo image. 

Anyhow, for midrange resolution, you can pay special attention to Ed's voice. Is there nuances? There is slight fluctuation in loudness (micro-dynamic)? Do you hear more texture and detail, or just a generic vocal line? Revealing those tiny texture and details make something 4/5 in resolution to me.

Finally, pay attention to the entire mix. Can you hear all the instruments being played? With some "well-tuned" IEMs, it's nearly impossible to hear the bass played by Adam Blackstone. Can you hear the guitars on the far right of the stage?


----------



## mt877

boromcom said:


> Hi again everyone. Could EM5 compete with FF3?


If you already have the EM5 continue to use them, they are still a worthy set of buds. To me the main difference in the EM5 sound signature vs the FF3 is that the EM5 has an overall bass emphasis while the FF3 is much more balanced and cleaner sound profile. I'm not saying the EM5 bass bleeds into the midrange or treble, just that the bass is ever present. The FF3 does not have that constant bass veil, rather the bass extension is subtle, there is enough bass fullness so  that whatever you're listening to sounds rich with good body. Having said that, the FF3 is very capable in the bass department as well. If the music track has bass slam, the FF3 won't disappoint you. FiiO did an extraordinary job in what they term their drum bass design and the tuning of the FF3 is top notch.

I'm glad I have both EM5 and FF3. If I could only keep one of them it would be the FF3. With the excellent job FiiO has done with the FF3, when the FF5 get released I'll be right there with a blind buy.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> For micro details and treble resolution stuffs:
> 
> 
> 
> I would focus on Visiting Hours (from 14:20). For treble details, I would pay attention to the chimes. Can you hear distinct sound or a blob of high-pitched sound? Now focus on the backup vocals. Can you hear what they sing? Can you hear with nuanced or just some slightly fuzzy vocal line? Most 64 Audio IEMs have a tuning trick (TIA treble) that dips 10k and boost 15k significantly, effectively pushing the background vocal further away and sharpening them up, giving 64 Audio that unique stereo image.



I wouldn’t call that a tuning trick in a sense.  It’s actually just proper tuning.  The Harman curve has some problems that I’ll demonstrate.  That dip in most cases should be at 9kHz.  you can see how the microphone measurements change hanging in the sweet spot in the stereo triangle and how that changes when in ear in this graph.  10kHz would likely suffice


----------



## Ronion

Fargeg said:


> Since objective measurements seem extremely unreliable when it comes to flatheads, I'd like to gather people's subjective impressions to get a better idea of how technical their earbuds sound.


Any measurement done poorly is unreliable.  Earbuds are just no exception.  FiiO’s measurements and rtings measurements translate well on my homemade rig.  That just doesn’t fit into your statement.


----------



## o0genesis0o

mt877 said:


> when the FF5 get released I'll be right there with a blind buy.



Unless Fiio’s engineers decide to “jazz it up” and make it deep V-shaped or something


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Unless Fiio’s engineers decide to “jazz it up” and make it deep V-shaped or something


My fears exactly.


----------



## silverszi

Ronion said:


> The Venture electronics Ex Pack should have them.


Thanks for the info
I've been searching for flathead earhooks/fins but they're all for IEMs and I'm not sure they'll fit 
The Ex Pack is kinda useless though and expensive for that plus doesn't have multiple sizes.


----------



## FranQL (Aug 7, 2022)

silverszi said:


> Thanks for the info
> I've been searching for flathead earhooks/fins but they're all for IEMs and I'm not sure they'll fit
> The Ex Pack is kinda useless though and expensive for that plus doesn't have multiple sizes.



I think they are very useful, they are excellent foams, I mainly use Hiegi, but there are buds that go better with these. I would not hesitate to have this pack at home if you are going to use buds. the adjust is very personal.

This are very good too

https://a.aliexpress.com/_u87Ged


----------



## Fargeg (Aug 7, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Any measurement done poorly is unreliable.  Earbuds are just no exception.  FiiO’s measurements and rtings measurements translate well on my homemade rig.  That just doesn’t fit into your statement.


Sounds like you've got a lot of experience with earbuds. Could you provide some info about the technicalities of some you own based on my post? I wrote it to make getting impressions that can be easily compared to each other of earbuds people here have tried as straightforward as possible.

e: For instance, the $10 Seahf AWK-F32 with VE foams without EQ goes *T!*, has a tactile but smeared, poorly textured bassline that comes across as sawtoothy rather than sine-like, barely passes the crossover imaging test but suffers from blurry imaging, has barely any depth, and has width that reaches up to my outer ear canal.


----------



## ValSuki

samandhi said:


> Those look reminiscent of the Focal "closed" headphone design, based off of the same jet engine principle (which works very well for resonance reduction BTW). I think you might be on to something here.
> 
> From what I have read about their design, a polymer, or plastic (where the dimples are at) works best (or absorb best) for resonance/frequency control over resin though. Food for thought.


You are absolutely right that a much more dense material such as a polymer would work better! However, due to current limitations of what im testing with, I cant exactly do that right now haha. Though, I do plan on testing cast metal shells or plastics in the future for these projects.


----------



## FyxeHexyz

Hello! I'm new to the earbuds section and I'm looking for recommendation on what I should jump for~

*budget* _(what are you willing/looking to spend? e.g. price range)
$1 - $1000_
*source* _(e.g. Smartphone, DAP, AMP/DAC, PC, Streamer)
DAP (Plenue 2 mkII) and AMP/DAC (xDuoo XA-10)_
*preferred connection* _(termination type, single-ended or balanced e.g. 3.5TRS, 4.4TRRS, 2.5TRRS)_
Any is fine
*listening level & session length* _(volume level and for how long?)
Mid - High, 10+ hours a day_
*listening environment* _(e.g. mobile, office, home desktop, home listening room)
Home, Office, Outside _
*preferred music genre *_(to include podcasts and audiobooks)
Unsure... video games ost, jpop, kpop_
*preferred shell and foam-cushion type* _(e.g. please see *here* and __*here*__)
Unsure as this is my first earbuds. Mostly dabble in IEM and Open Back Headphones._
*preferred sound signature i* _(e.g. bright, dark, warm, aggressive, bassy, neutral, L/U/V/W-shaped)
Fun-Neutral? Something like the Sundara/HE6se. The IEM I used is considered a U-shaped. So either one of these is fine._
*preferred sound signature ii* _(optional; offer a comparative non-earbud transducer model)_
Headphone - Hifiman Sundara & Hifiman HE6se
IEM - Acoustune HS1695ti
_*preferred brand*_ _(optional; only applicable for a model recommendation within a single brand)
none_
*any special need and/or consideration* _(e.g. mic/no mic?; fixed cable vs. mmcx?)
MMCX_


----------



## Halimj7

Can anyone recommend an earbud that is lean and spacious with greater emphasis on the upper mids and highs? I know about the Chaconne but I’m looking for another hopefully cheaper alternative. Thanks.


----------



## ValSuki (Aug 7, 2022)

FyxeHexyz said:


> Hello! I'm new to the earbuds section and I'm looking for recommendation on what I should jump for~
> 
> *budget* _(what are you willing/looking to spend? e.g. price range)
> $1 - $1000_
> ...


Heya! Before spending anything on a bud, I do need to ask for a safety precaution in this type of transducer, can you wear and fit earbuds? If not, I would highly reccomend using a Vido because its so cheap, and actually decent sounding for its price. 3-4 bucks!
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNUiyZK
But if you have worn and fit them, there are plenty of options to choose from. I can reccomend the pt2022 which is a nice value to performance earbud.


----------



## FyxeHexyz

ValSuki said:


> Heya! Before spending anything on a bud, I do need to ask for a safety precaution in this type of transducer, can you wear and fit earbuds? If not, I would highly reccomend using a Vido because its so cheap, and actually decent sounding for its price. 3-4 bucks!
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNUiyZK
> But if you have worn and fit them, there are plenty of options to choose from. I can reccomend the **** pt2022 which is a nice value to performance earbud.


ooh thank you. True I haven't thought about that 😵 I'm currently waiting for the LBBS to arrive as we speak. So I guess I'll try that first.


----------



## baskingshark

Halimj7 said:


> Can anyone recommend an earbud that is lean and spacious with greater emphasis on the upper mids and highs? I know about the Chaconne but I’m looking for another hopefully cheaper alternative. Thanks.



NiceHCK EBX21


----------



## ttorbic

FyxeHexyz said:


> ooh thank you. True I haven't thought about that 😵 I'm currently waiting for the LBBS to arrive as we speak. So I guess I'll try that first.


Yeah good shout @ValSuki - fit & comfort are really important for those venturing into earbuds. I was at first hesitant to spend more on some Rikubuds because I didn't find VE Monk Plus to be comfy, but Riku gave me some advice and a few months later, I am really happy to have dived into DIY earbuds! I have both Rikubuds and earbuds from Tgx, and I'd say they are phenomenal value for performance.


----------



## Ronion

silverszi said:


> Thanks for the info
> I've been searching for flathead earhooks/fins but they're all for IEMs and I'm not sure they'll fit
> The Ex Pack is kinda useless though and expensive for that plus doesn't have multiple sizes.






 $5 doesn’t seem unreasonable to ma and it lists that it has 2 sizes….  I’m not trying to be a jerk, but I think you’ll have a hard time finding a better deal than this in the world.


----------



## Ronion

Fargeg said:


> Sounds like you've got a lot of experience with earbuds. Could you provide some info about the technicalities of some you own based on my post? I wrote it to make getting impressions that can be easily compared to each other of earbuds people here have tried as straightforward as possible.
> 
> e: For instance, the $10 Seahf AWK-F32 with VE foams without EQ goes *T!*, has a tactile but smeared, poorly textured bassline that comes across as sawtoothy rather than sine-like, barely passes the crossover imaging test but suffers from blurry imaging, has barely any depth, and has width that reaches up to my outer ear canal.


In all honesty, that would be a “no” from me at the moment, but I’ve left a lot of posts in this thread and there are tons of earbud reviews on this site and others that you can read.  Random thoughts about random buds isn’t going to be a good use of my time.


----------



## ian91 (Aug 7, 2022)

I have spent a few days now with the _*TGXear Serratus*_ (300ohm PET BG). Firstly, thanks to @tgx78 for getting it sent off on the day I ordered, I'm terrible at waiting and the wait for this was short and sweet.

What impressions I have read from the lovely people here ring true: this is a very capable neutral earbud with great extension on either end. It's very resolving with good instrumental and vocal clarity. It has enough low end to embody male vocals and the upper midrange presence and treble extension brings breath and air to female vocals. Regardless of source (Schiit Valhalla 2, Shanling M8, VE Megatron) I hear it as a warm-neutral. The uppermidrange is carefully tuned to avoid shout and is placed futher back than my Blur earbuds (that epitomise a 'mid-centric' signature). The low end is north of neutral that gives the overriding sound a degree of warmth but with absolutely no veiling of detail even down the lowest string fundamentals. It never comes across as analytical, just honest and natural.

With the right source that has enough oomph behind it, the driver performs exceptionally well. The Valhalla 2 on low gain drives to good volume and effect, sitting at about half 11 on the dial. The VE Megatron is perfectly suited for portable use with the Serratus and it's warmer profile really makes the Serratus an all-day listen. The Shanling M8 on turbo (4.4mm BAL) didn't have enough dynamism for my tastes, unfortunately, the low end lost flex and the balance shifts to a thinner, brighter signature.

Compared to my _*Blur OFC MX400 STE non-aPs *_(400ohm) there is a narrower stage with less depth but much better low end extension that improves noteweight and makes for a more realistic listen. Comparing to the Serratus also reveals the strong uppermid emphasis / second mountain that Blur likes to tune to. The Serratus is less emphasised here which makes for a less fatiguing listen and avoids some problem areas with certain tracks/instruments. What makes the _*TGXear Serratus *_special to my ears is the timbre. It has been mentioned before but heck, I'll emphasise it, the Serratus is superbly adept in this regard. String instruments are _so_ well captured and full of life, realism and instrumental identity. It surpasses my _*Blur OFC PK150 Wraith*_ (150ohm), which was my existing benchmark for instrumental timbre.

Technically I was somewhat disappointed with the stage width and instrument separation as on busier tracks things can get quite indistinct with regards to locality. In every other regard this is a homerun and a TOTL earbud. Combine the balanced, well-extended tuning with its life-like expression and what you have is a top choice for classical/jazz/any other instrumental genre.

For those with _*TGXear Tantalus *_and *TGXear Serratus *more comparisons would be appreciated (for those who have compared so far, thank you), as I'm definitely interested but having read that the Tantalus has a narrower stage is making me hesitant.

Kudos to you @tgx78 - keep on creating!


EDIT: Currently experimenting with the Cayin RU-6 x Serratus. What the?! It pairs very well indeed, plenty of low end presence. Yet the M8 with 800mW doesn't seem to do the signature justice. Odd.


----------



## 0b0d0 (Aug 7, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> The *HESSIAN 黑塞 ansata Pro* is made by the same man who makes ISN Audio and Ourart and it is a cross between the Ourart Ti7, Ourart ACG, ISN Audio Rambo II, and the original HESSIAN 黑塞 ansata ☥. I found the bass to be too rolled off and weak for my liking on the ansata Pro. Although, it is far from being harsh, sibilant, or bright which I tend to like the treble is actually a little bit too quiet... not quite recessed but very toned down which causes it to lose some sparkle and airiness in the highs if that makes any sense at all. The midrange is where it is all at with these earbuds... the mids exhibit awesome imaging, remarkable separation, satisfactory timbre, and sharp clarity... and thus quite understandable why you like it for long gaming sessions. This earbud is virtually fatigue-free! I can not recall who made the comparison to the *2018 - Yincrow RW-9; 32Ω* but I would agree with that assertion that the ansata Pro sounds very similar to that especially in the treble region. Very hard to put foams on these earbuds similar to Turandot and Chaconne... nimble fingers required.
> 
> 2017 - Ourart Ti7; 32Ω​2018 - Ourart ACG; 35Ω​2019 - ISN Audio Rambo; 32Ω​2019 - ISN Audio Rambo II; 32Ω​2019 - Ourart QJ21; 45Ω​2020 - HESSIAN 黑塞 ansata ☥; 32Ω​2021 - HESSIAN 黑塞 ansata Pro; 35Ω​


Thx a bunch, Sire WoodyLuvr, having a knowledgeable one describing a piece i have is really helping me understand what is it i'm looking for in the audio realm.
Yes, really rolled off bass i would have never imagine being so acceptable for me a few years ago. I guess those unmissable mid-range qualities, i merely guessed, you're underlining are where the meat of the informative gaming sound is and therefore why i love those this much for this purpose.
The Trig Rain big celled ones where not so hard to put in place but silicon rings will drive ones nuts. On the Trig Rains, have anyone have noticed how the blue ones are far more fragile than the Blacks ?

Since i'm here, i'd like to apologize to head-fiers for having only questions and no answers. Maybe one day. But unfortunately, got some more :

 I'm looking for the more crazy efficient buds you good people have crossed path with, cheap, clean sound for 80% podcasts, 20% music, to use on a tiny Mp3 player.
And about sound signatures, U and V. As i look at those letters, mid lows would obviously be far less emphasized on U than on V, is it so ?

(Since the E1008 was mentioned again, i can not warn enough those interested of the crappiness of that cable. Bah, far too dark for my taste, anyway).


----------



## baskingshark

0b0d0 said:


> I'm looking for the more crazy efficient buds you good people have crossed path with, cheap, clean sound for 80% podcasts, 20% music, to use on a tiny Mp3 player.
> And about sound signatures, U and V. As i look at those letters, mid lows would obviously be far less emphasized on U than on V, is it so ?
> 
> (Since the E1008 was mentioned again, i can not warn enough those interested of the crappiness of that cable. Bah, far too dark for my taste, anyway).



You can check out the HZSound Bell Rhyme.


----------



## mt877

o0genesis0o said:


> Unless Fiio’s engineers decide to “jazz it up” and make it deep V-shaped or something


I've taken the bullet for the team before... the FF3 is a fine example. In 'our' world many are hesitant to drop dime on unknown quality (build and sound) unless someone else steps up and gives first impressions. Even then that is not enough to convince people to buy in. It often takes 2nd and 3rd impressions which agree with the 1st impression to sway people to buy in. It is human nature. Between company reputation, bloated advertising, general product hype and numerous equipment / headgear choices you can understand that there is fear of making wrong choices and wasting money that could be put to better uses. But all is good on my end. I believe that FiiO will put out an excellent product in the FF5 and if not, I may be the first one here to let everyone know.


----------



## ProspektFi (Aug 7, 2022)

Hi everyone. I'm enjoying seeing how full of passionate and knowledged people this thread is, so I want to ask two questions, just out of curiosity:

1) In your experience, which earbuds have the best separation and ability to locate exactly position and distance of sounds coming from all directions (preferably specifying whether they are currently on the market or not)?

2) How limiting is the type of shell when trying to achieve the best performance in the aspects I specified in the first question? Let's take MX500 shell: how much improvement can be achieved compared to famous cheap models like Vido just by better drivers and tuning before reaching the inevitable technical limit of the shell itself?

Just to add my simple thoughts, I own about twenty earbuds models in the 2-20€ range (look at my signature), all bought before 2020, and I find them all more or less disappointing in separation, imaging and three-dimensionality in general. Maybe NiceHCK DIY PK2, Apple Earpods and PT15 are slightly better than average, but nothing special. Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to hear better 'buds yet.


----------



## weexisttocease

Just ordered the Tantalus from Jim. He mentioned it is working on a flagship dual driver with a planar magnetic driver and a 7mm DD driver. 🤤


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 7, 2022)

Fargeg said:


> Since objective measurements seem extremely unreliable when it comes to flatheads, I'd like to gather people's subjective impressions to get a better idea of how technical their earbuds sound.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Firstly, welcome to the rabbit hole! Head's up! We are all a bit mad down here!

*“But I don’t want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked.*​*“Oh, you can’t help that,” said the Cat: “we’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad.”*​*“How do you know I’m mad?” said Alice.*​_*“You must be,” said the Cat, “or you wouldn’t have come here.”*_​
Secondly, your post is quite interesting with some thoughtfully posed questions regarding flathead earbuds. Currently, I have my new *Longyao-Yinman 2.0 600 Limited Edition (600Ω)* earbuds plugged into my earbud tube amp... so I gave your tests a whirl. I am getting a strong "T*S*K!" with noticeable reverb. Bass is detailed, quite pronounced with frequency variation as indicated. The piano crossover is very present with 3-D stereo percussion effect.

Thirdly, I would not always correlate TOTL-fi with good or better sound production... I have been proven wrong and surprised way too many times over the many decades that I have been in the hobby.

Fourthly, your post was received with much silence as people hear and listen to music differently... interpreting what they hear quite varyingly. Your music selection is a tough one too for many. I really had to force myself to listen to that track repeatedly... not easy, just not my cup of tea. I would offer that such electronic music is not always the best genre for testing as electronically generated instrumentation is often tonally different than real-life with much varying timbre which will exuberate and amplify the differences that people are hearing and reporting back. Perhaps offer better bait... a more classic (traditional) piece with real recorded instrumentation... you may receive more bites (takers) that way.

Fifthly, that sound test track you offered is splendid! The piano is well-tuned and timbrally accurate (extremely so... there are a lot of badly tuned pianos out there these days and/or illy recorded where the timbre is all goofy and sounds nothing like a real piano). The second half of the test is also especially well recorded and presented.. the high hats and rides are great. Really appreciate your sharing that link! I never came across this one, thank you!

Cheers!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

weexisttocease said:


> Just ordered the Tantalus from Jim. He mentioned it is working on a flagship dual driver with a planar magnetic driver and a 7mm DD driver. 🤤


Was that a 7mm or 6mm DD driver?

COMING SOON​tgxear Desolation Sound; 33Ω (15.4 + 8mm dual DD; currently @ prototype stage)​tgxear Panorama Ridge; ??Ω (hybrid 14.2 planar magnetic + 6mm DD; currently @ prototype stage)​


----------



## weexisttocease

WoodyLuvr said:


> Was that a 7mm or 6mm DD driver?
> 
> COMING SOON​tgxear Desolation Sound; 33Ω (15.4 + 8mm dual DD; currently @ prototype stage)​tgxear Panorama Ridge; ??Ω (hybrid 14.2 planar magnetic + 6mm DD; currently @ prototype stage)​


He told me it's a 7mm DD but still in prototype stage. The planar magnetic driver is the same used in the CA Supermoon.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

FyxeHexyz said:


> Hello! I'm new to the earbuds section and I'm looking for recommendation on what I should jump for~
> 
> *budget* _(what are you willing/looking to spend? e.g. price range)
> $1 - $1000_
> ...





ValSuki said:


> Heya! Before spending anything on a bud, I do need to ask for a safety precaution in this type of transducer, can you wear and fit earbuds? If not, I would highly reccomend using a Vido because its so cheap, and actually decent sounding for its price. 3-4 bucks!
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNUiyZK
> But if you have worn and fit them, there are plenty of options to choose from. I can reccomend the pt2022 which is a nice value to performance earbud.





FyxeHexyz said:


> ooh thank you. True I haven't thought about that 😵 I'm currently waiting for the LBBS to arrive as we speak. So I guess I'll try that first.


Excellent advice from *@ValSuki *

I think the Ks LBBs will be a good starting point for you especially coming from those nicely balanced Japanese IEMs of yours. Give the LBBs a good week or two so your ears and brain can adapt to a completely different transducer medium. I would even recommend that you refrain from trying to compare them to either your headphones or IEMs for at a least a good week or so. Report back your findings and then from there we can give you some recommendations and better guidance.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> @samandhi , you may want to wait until the FF5 comes out.  It may be better…


Too late bro! That screenshot was my order... LOL


silverszi said:


> Thanks for the info
> I've been searching for flathead earhooks/fins but they're all for IEMs and I'm not sure they'll fit
> The Ex Pack is kinda useless though and expensive for that plus doesn't have multiple sizes.


Did you not see the link I posted to an Amazon seller for 3 sizes of those? Though the other folks are right. That EX pack is a pretty good deal also IMHO. 


FyxeHexyz said:


> Hello! I'm new to the earbuds section and I'm looking for recommendation on what I should jump for~
> 
> *budget* _(what are you willing/looking to spend? e.g. price range)
> $1 - $1000_
> ...


I guess my mind went a different direction than others have mentioned. When I saw Sundaras with a bit of a U presentation I immediately thought of the Smabat ST10S Black & Gold. Though, keep in mind a lot of earbuds have a boosted pina gain region (I guess making it more of a W), and these are no exception, but after some time with them, you get used to it. That is saying something coming from me, because I am super sensitive to that area (well maybe not any more LOL). To my ears this set sounds the most like the Sundara that I have heard to date. 

On the other hand, maybe the other folk's recommendations are good in that for your first set, and to get used to the idea of the differences that are earbuds, you should go that way.


----------



## samandhi

FyxeHexyz said:


> Hello! I'm new to the earbuds section and I'm looking for recommendation on what I should jump for~
> 
> *budget* _(what are you willing/looking to spend? e.g. price range)
> $1 - $1000_
> ...


If there were ONE recommendation I would make (and this is for ALL that are new to earbuds), this would probably be the most important (from my experience):

Whatever bud you decide to get, do yourself the favor of listening to them EXCLUSIVELY for about 2 weeks. Also, don't take them off and try and compare to whatever head gear you are coming from (ie... IEMs, headphones, TWS). Our brains adapt to sound. So, your old gear might be off, or might be perfect, but if you put in some earbuds for the first time, they might sound OFF. Not because they are, mind you. But, because they really are more different than any other thing out there. This is one of the reasons that these lil' gems are still thriving (albeit niche). They are KINDA' like heaphones (especially open back), and they are KINDA' like IEMs (because of being so small), but also are not....

Just my take from my first experience with earbuds.


----------



## samandhi (Aug 7, 2022)

Halimj7 said:


> Can anyone recommend an earbud that is lean and spacious with greater emphasis on the upper mids and highs? I know about the Chaconne but I’m looking for another hopefully cheaper alternative. Thanks.


That would be just about anything from China. Have you looked into the Smabat buds?

Edit: The Chaconne (BTW) actually don't have an emphasis on the upper mids. It it pretty linear from the mids all the way into the upper treble region.


----------



## Halimj7

samandhi said:


> That would be just about anything from China. Have you looked into the Smabat buds?
> 
> Edit: The Chaconne (BTW) actually don't have an emphasis on the upper mids. It it pretty linear from the mids all the way into the upper treble region.


Has anyone tried the Smabat Super 1?  Very interesting design.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Too late bro! That screenshot was my order... LOL
> 
> Did you not see the link I posted to an Amazon seller for 3 sizes of those? Though the other folks are right. That EX pack is a pretty good deal also IMHO.
> 
> ...


LOL—I’m sure you’ll enjoy them. I just hope they continue with this level of quality on the FF5 and it obsoletes the FF3.  I hate for you to spend twice like I probably will….


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> LOL—I’m sure you’ll enjoy them. I just hope they continue with this level of quality on the FF5 and it obsoletes the FF3.  I hate for you to spend twice like I probably will….


Ahh well, I suppose you can't take it with you when you die anyhow... 

At this point I am getting too big of a collection. I may have to sell/give a few sets away. I don't like to have too many because I honestly try and work them ALL into my rotation, and that becomes very difficult with the more one has... 

If many applaud the FF5 like they have the FF3, I will probably end up with it also (just like the RW2000 and RW3000)...

On another note, have you listened to the Yinmans BTW?


----------



## samandhi (Aug 7, 2022)

Halimj7 said:


> Has anyone tried the Smabat Super 1?  Very interesting design.


@RikudouGoku has reviewed them if you want to read about them, though they aren't much cheaper than the Chaconne. I was thinking more about the cheaper M0 or something to that nature. Smabat "house" sound is in that boosted pina gain. From what you were asking for they sound right up your alley.

Or you could give the DUNU Alpha 1  a go. They are about $66.50 in USD from that site I linked. They are a hybrid bud (1 DD and 1 BA driver). And they are VERY similar to the Rose Technics Maria II in their tuning. They are a great set if you like the boosted upper mids/lower treble area. You can read a review of them here:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/du...mature-high-fidelity-headphones.20587/reviews


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Ahh well, I suppose you can't take it with you when you die anyhow...
> 
> At this point I am getting too big of a collection. I may have to sell/give a few sets away. I don't like to have too many because I honestly try and work them ALL into my rotation, and that becomes very difficult with the more one has...
> 
> ...


I haven’t, but I am curious…. Just can’t bring myself to pull the trigger because of the size of my collection.  I’m going to have to downsize as well, but I’ve got some exciting things about to happen with my DIY buds.  I’m just about to start building my earbuds lab!  It’s going to be fun.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> I haven’t, but I am curious…. Just can’t bring myself to pull the trigger because of the size of my collection.  I’m going to have to downsize as well, but I’ve got some exciting things about to happen with my DIY buds.  I’m just about to start building my earbuds lab!  It’s going to be fun.


OH! Sounds exciting... Make sure you take progress pictures (if you get the time). I would be excited to see a "story" type of progression (a scrapbook of sorts). 

Well, I am not normally one to twist arms, but you would definitely NOT regret getting those. After hearing them you probably would be glad to get rid of a pair or two IMO... 

But I digress and respect that you have a collection size issue. The only reason I got them (totally blind) was because of four words that @WoodyLuvr used: wooden shells, warm, clear.... Nuff' said! And he was absolutely correct.. Thanks again for the (subtle, and possibly unwitting) recommendation..........


----------



## o0genesis0o

WoodyLuvr said:


> tgxear Desolation Sound; 33Ω (15.4 + 8mm dual DD; currently @ prototype stage)
> tgxear Panorama Ridge; ??Ω (hybrid 14.2 planar magnetic + 6mm DD; currently @ prototype stage)



Earbuds with new driver topology from a DIY? How can we invest in @tgx78? This guy might build a huge company one day like Moondrop and VE   Very eager to hear a dual driver setup.



Ronion said:


> but I’ve got some exciting things about to happen with my DIY buds. I’m just about to start building my earbuds lab! It’s going to be fun.



This thread has given me the last push to get started with physical modding and DIY as well. It’s fun.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

1clearhead said:


> Did anyone purchase or own the *TRN EMA*? They sound surprisingly good!
> I could actually hear clear sub-bass notes while the midrange and treble are upfront clear and smooth and not at all harsh or sibilant, which is often the case with many earbuds. Personally, this is a rare and happy find for me. They are very light and comfortable and no need for the sponges (IMHO) for their size and WOW can they take power!
> Sorry, I can't send you my personal PIC's since I am away for a week on vacation, but below are some PIC's from Aliexpress...
> 
> ...


I have a pair of the EMAs on the way that I threw into the cart on a whim when I was ordering a pair of Shozy BKs. It's nice to hear that they sound decent. Normally when I purchase something bigger, I will throw in a pair or two of cheap buds to try for funsies so this time I took a shot in the dark with the TRN EMAs, but for under $9 you can't really go wrong. I have had good luck in the past when I did the same thing with a pair of TRN M10s when I wanted a pair of cheap bullets to replace the Quarks I wasn't impressed with so I figured why not?


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I have a pair of the EMAs on the way that I threw into the cart on a whim when I was ordering a pair of Shozy BKs. It's nice to hear that they sound decent. Normally when I purchase something bigger, I will throw in a pair or two of cheap buds to try for funsies so this time I took a shot in the dark with the TRN EMAs, but for under $9 you can't really go wrong. I have had good luck in the past when I did the same thing with a pair of TRN M10s when I wanted a pair of cheap bullets to replace the Quarks I wasn't impressed with so I figured why not?


I had the same sort of blind luck with the NiceHCK EB2S that I bought for something like $16 and it was a "mystery lucky bag"... I have found them to be very very excellent (for the price). 

But, that is a really good idea, and maybe I should consider doing that in the future?!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> I had the same sort of blind luck with the NiceHCK EB2S that I bought for something like $16 and it was a "mystery lucky bag"... I have found them to be very very excellent (for the price).
> 
> But, that is a really good idea, and maybe I should consider doing that in the future?!


I just hand off the ones I don't want to keep to friends, family, and even kids in the neighborhood and stuff. I add the pairs that make the cut to my collection. I have only been doing it with flathead earbuds specifically for a few months since I have gotten into them as a form factor and begun collecting. In just that few months time I already have quite the little collection put together and more on the way lol!


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I just hand off the ones I don't want to keep to friends, family, and even kids in the neighborhood and stuff. I add the pairs that make the cut to my collection. I have only been doing it with flathead earbuds specifically for a few months since I have gotten into them as a form factor and begun collecting. In just that few months time I already have quite the little collection put together and more on the way lol!


Who says that money can't buy you friends?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> I had the same sort of blind luck with the NiceHCK EB2S that I bought for something like $16 and it was a "mystery lucky bag"... I have found them to be very very excellent (for the price).
> 
> But, that is a really good idea, and maybe I should consider doing that in the future?!


I just checked my AliExpress order and I actually have the EB2S on their too. I have been lurking here and picking up tips on buds to try since I'm pretty new to the earbud game and I must've happened upon someone saying they're good. What is it that you like so much about them or that they do well, if you don't mind my asking?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Too late bro! That screenshot was my order... LOL


Don't worry about it! The FF3s are a great earbud! Even knowing the FF5s are coming, I don't regret grabbing the FF3s for a second. I will probably still get the FF5s to try when they come out because of how good the FF3s have been, but the 3s won't be going anywhere.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I just checked my AliExpress order and I actually have the EB2S on their too. I have been lurking here and picking up tips on buds to try since I'm pretty new to the earbud game and I must've happened upon someone saying they're good. What is it that you like so much about them or that they do well, if you don't mind my asking?


They have a fairly refined sound for the cost. Bass is present, treble is clear, and soundstage is pretty good. The upper mids are a bit hot (like many earbuds coming out of China). These sound a lot like the Smabat M2s Pro to my ears. 

Let us know your thoughts on them when you get some time on them?!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> These sound a lot like the Smabat M2s Pro to my ears.
> 
> Let us know your thoughts on them when you get some time on them?!


Nice! I tried the M2 Pros and liked them quite a bit so I'll be looking forward to checking them out! I will definitely report my impressions. Supposedly my package is going through customs so it shouldn't be long.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Nice! I tried the M2 Pros and liked them quite a bit so I'll be looking forward to checking them out! I will definitely report my impressions. Supposedly my package is going through customs so it shouldn't be long.


Keep in mind, that is the M2s Pro not the M2 Pro. Having said that, I have not heard the M2 Pro, so they might be alike.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Keep in mind, that is the M2s Pro not the M2 Pro. Having said that, I have not heard the M2 Pro, so they might be alike.


I misread, but either way I would imagine drawing a comparison to a considerably more expensive earbud is a compliment. It's pretty cool what some of these low cost buds have in their bag of tricks.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I misread, but either way I would imagine drawing a comparison to a considerably more expensive earbud is a compliment. It's pretty cool what some of these low cost buds have in their bag of tricks.



Unrelated, but are you on r/headphones? I think I have discussed with you in comments couple weeks ago about DIY IEMs


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Unrelated, but are you on r/headphones? I think I have discussed with you in comments couple weeks ago about DIY IEMs


That's me! I knew I recognized your username. I didn't think there were too many people that use both. But, yeah, I'm the guy who put tesla drivers in some openheart open backs from AE.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> I finally finished revamping my ranking list and also the rating for FF3.
> 
> Surprise surprise, the humble pair of ear buds stays up there amongst the kilobuck IEM. Best of luck to Fiio to top this level of performance.


I am absolutely loving the FF3s right now as well. They are awesome and for $99 who would have thought they'd be THIS good? I have been listening to them a ton, but aside from trying stock foams and no foams and landing on the stock donuts as my favorites I haven't done any experimenting. With that in mind, I have to ask what all you've tried as far as foams, silicone rings, etc and what you have picked as your preference/favorite for rocking the FF3s?


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I am absolutely loving the FF3s right now as well. They are awesome and for $99 who would have thought they'd be THIS good? I have been listening to them a ton, but aside from trying stock foams and no foams and landing on the stock donuts as my favorites I haven't done any experimenting. With that in mind, I have to ask what all you've tried as far as foams, silicone rings, etc and what you have picked as your preference/favorite for rocking the FF3s?



I started with donut foam but eventually settled for balanced foam. The donut foam offers the best (perceived) resolution, but FF3 can get shouty and shrill. I used to EQ, but recently I messed up and listened to some IEM for reviewing without turning off the EQ, so I try to use physical modding rather than EQ now. I am looking forward to try the silicone fins to see if I can use FF3 for taking a walk.

I like how organically resolving FF3 is. It might not sound as resolving as S12 at a glance, but I don't think they are different in terms of "true" resolution.

Btw, your collection is shockingly epic. Holy Molly.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> I started with donut foam but eventually settled for balanced foam. The donut foam offers the best (perceived) resolution, but FF3 can get shouty and shrill. I used to EQ, but recently I messed up and listened to some IEM for reviewing without turning off the EQ, so I try to use physical modding rather than EQ now. I am looking forward to try the silicone fins to see if I can use FF3 for taking a walk.
> 
> I like how organically resolving FF3 is. It might not sound as resolving as S12 at a glance, but I don't think they are different in terms of "true" resolution.
> 
> Btw, your collection is shockingly epic. Holy Molly.


I don't use EQ either, but as you can probably tell from my headphone collection, my tastes skew towards neutral/neutral-bright sound signatures so the FF3s haven't been coming across as anything other than sublime for me. My audio palette may not be as refined as some, but I have heard many of the supposed best headphones, IEMs, etc so I know what greatness sounds like and the FF3s are great!

I haven't tried them with fins or silicon rings yet, but I have both so I will be giving them a shot. Although I have to say, the FF3s settle very nicely in my ear and are quite stable. I was surprised because I read a couple reviews where people said they were very position reliant and that they moved easily. I can go from sitting to laying down to walking around with minimal movement and adjusting.

Thanks for the compliment on my collection! Were you talking about a specific part of it (eg earbuds or headphones)? I am lucky enough to have become quite successful financially, especially in the last 5 years or so and audio/music is my passion and my profession so I shoot for the best! Nothing returns enjoyment and satisfaction on the money invested like music related gear.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Aug 7, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Were you talking about a specific part of it (eg earbuds or headphones)?



All the TOTL headphones and IEMs. Congrats, mate!

Though I just realised recently that my inclination to own TOTL IEMs have reduced significantly after auditioning nearly the entire store in my city. Yup, they are good. But a lot other IEMs are also very alright. I just need to borrow gear for a while to satisfy my curiosity and share review so others can benefit from my experience, and then that's it. So much promise, but in the end, many expensive IEMs do not offer that much. 

Modding and DIY, though. So fun to bring something alright (S12) to top level performers.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> All the TOTL headphones and IEMs. Congrats, mate!
> 
> Though I just realised recently that my inclination to own TOTL IEMs have reduced significantly after auditioning nearly the entire store in my city. Yup, they are good. But a lot other IEMs are also very alright. I just need to borrow gear for a while to satisfy my curiosity and share review so others can benefit from my experience, and then that's it. So much promise, but in the end, many expensive IEMs do not offer that much.
> 
> Modding and DIY, though. So fun to bring something alright (S12) to top level performers.


I actually 100% agree. I wouldn't own the Audio64 A18s CIEMs for example except for the fact that they approached a drum equipment manufacturer I have a deal with and asked for them to recommend musicians to them from the endorsement roster who would like to try their CIEMs. I paid for the scans for my ears, but nothing else. I liked them so I switched to using them from the company I previously used. I bought the N8s myself because I was intrigued and wanted to show them some love in return.

If it were totally riding on my dime and I didn't use CIEMs for monitoring my live performances, my Andros would be the most expensive IEMs I own. And given what's available for modest cash these days (ie the S12) I think it's totally reasonable to stick with the best picka from the affordable midfi area. Diminishing returns hit hard after that area.

With headphones I have found that your money buys you greater improvements past the midfi level than it does in the IEM market so the price I just got my Stealths for used was 100% worth it for me.

For pure performance and enjoyment to price ratio, I am finding earbuds incredibly difficult to beat. The best earbuds out there can be had pretty affordably and they are killer. I just got into earbuds a few months ago after looking into the Aiwa HP-V99s my music teacher gave me 20+ years ago and finding out that people pay a small fortune for them on ebay. I wanted to see how some of the earbuds around today stack up to earbuds from the supposed golden age and I was favorably impressed so I started building a collection lol! As if I couldn't have seen that coming from a mile away...


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 8, 2022)

Okay guys, I want to ask the earbud hobby veterans in here a quick question: If I was looking to try the best earbud from VE which model should I be looking into? I have been looking around at them and see varying opinions on which VE model is the best. As long as I can find it to purchase price doesn't matter within reason (meaning the top end VE earbud models I have seen are all sub $300 IIRC).

The reason I am asking is because I have been looking to put together maybe 3-4 contemporary premium earbuds to head up my collection. I have tried a lot of them in a short time including many of the usual suspects. So far the 3 that I have are the Ucotech ES-P1, Toneking Viridis, and Fiio FF3. I have the Shozy BK on the way to try because it was highly recommended and I would like to try something(s) from VE's best offerings. Any other recommendations that occur to you guys from other manufacturers would be welcome as well.

Buds I have tried and sold on or returned the the person who leant them to me: Moondrop Chaconne & Liebesleid, Rose Technics Martini, Hessian Ansata Pro, Yincrow RW2000 (didn't get enough time with this one so the RW2000 and RW3000 are on my list to try, luckily have a friend with both and will be borrowing them), Smabat M and M2 Pro. I think that covers the big recommendations I have tried so anything else is basically fair game.

Edit: That became a bigger, more complicated question so thanks for bearing with me lol!


----------



## o0genesis0o

So, I was working on some emails with FF3 when my playlist reaches Lacrimosa (Apple Music). I have to pause for a moment and listen in awe. The opening string feel distant, not just quiet. Around 0:30, not only individual words are clear but there is a clear placement of male and female vocal slightly on the right and left side of the centre image. The strings stay at the background, far behind the vocals at all time. The dynamic scaling is breath taking, from very soft at the beginning to thunderous around 1:20, and then immediate scale down in the next phrase. This is no tinny tiny sound of IEM.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I just hand off the ones I don't want to keep to friends, family, and even kids in the neighborhood and stuff. I add the pairs that make the cut to my collection. I have only been doing it with flathead earbuds specifically for a few months since I have gotten into them as a form factor and begun collecting. In just that few months time I already have quite the little collection put together and more on the way lol!





samandhi said:


> Who says that money can't buy you friends?


Bravo! When one is in the position to, I really do think gifting unwanted/unused audio gear is a splendid aspect of the hobby. It is also a much needed healthy injection for the hobby as it can be quite helpful to the less fortunate (those on a tight budget... especially the younger generation) to level up and/or introduce good audio to the unknowing. I believe I have gifted away at least 70-75% of my audio-related gear over the years and I am better for it   . This hobby unfortunately does have strong inclinations towards selfishness so gifting strikes a good balance and brings us back down to earth.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 9, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> So, I was working on some emails with FF3 when my playlist reaches Lacrimosa (Apple Music). I have to pause for a moment and listen in awe. The opening string feel distant, not just quiet. Around 0:30, not only individual words are clear but there is a clear placement of male and female vocal slightly on the right and left side of the centre image. The strings stay at the background, far behind the vocals at all time. The dynamic scaling is breath taking, from very soft at the beginning to thunderous around 1:20, and then immediate scale down in the next phrase. This is no tinny tiny sound of IEM.


Concur, this is one area where flathead earbuds (and tiny DDs) can and do really succeed in compared to other transducer mediums and driver types. Once understood and accustomed to, earbuds and their mini DDs, do offer an airy, wide-open, speaker-like presentation with natural-sounding timbre and layered imaging. Although IEMs, with either their enclosed mini DDs, BAs, hybrids, etc., can be super detailed (resolution) monsters with excellent FR retrieval they do tend to sacrifice air and openness in order to achieve it and thus why they may exhibit elements of that restrained tiny sound you speak of. There are pros and cons with all transducer mediums... it's just that IEM fanatics tend to not want to discuss (or even want to admit) the cons of their preferred transducer medium.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

WoodyLuvr said:


> Bravo! When one is in the position to, I really do think gifting unwanted/unused audio gear is a splendid aspect of the hobby. It is also a much needed healthy injection for the hobby as it can be quite helpful to the less fortunate (those on a tight budget... especially the younger generation) to level up and/or introduce good audio to the unknowing. I believe I have gifted away at least 70-75% of my audio-related gear over the years and I am better for it   . This hobby unfortunately does have strong inclinations towards selfishness so gifting strikes a good balance and brings us back down to earth.


Absolutely! I hate seeing good gear going unused and I love seeing new audio/music/headphone enthusiasts so it really is a win-win. Props to you for giving back as well!


----------



## silverszi

I think I'm nearly ready to give up with my lbbs eq
nearly.


----------



## o0genesis0o

silverszi said:


> I think I'm nearly ready to give up with my lbbs eq
> nearly.



This is why I let REW or AutoEQ calculate EQ for me


----------



## silverszi

o0genesis0o said:


> This is why I let REW or AutoEQ calculate EQ for me


I would use REW because i have a target response but I don't know how to use an existing measurement as a target response


----------



## silverszi (Aug 8, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> This is why I let REW or AutoEQ calculate EQ for me





silverszi said:


> I would use REW because i have a target response but I don't know how to use an existing measurement as a target response





blue is koss target
forest green is eq'd in REW
lime is actual eq measurement
my measuring rig is literally just me sticking the earbud onto my usb mic because of the magnets lmao.
doing it manually now though
better than by ear possibly but still doesnt sound *good enough*
also reduced the band count by
a lot


----------



## o0genesis0o

silverszi said:


> blue is koss target
> forest green is eq'd in REW
> lime is actual eq measurement
> my measuring rig is literally just me sticking the earbud onto my usb mic because of the magnets lmao.
> ...



Have you thought about using a standard 10-band EQ? You can mimic one with PEQ as well. Adjust the Q value so that you modify a wider band at the same time to avoid adding unnecessary peaks. 

In my experience, I found that, sometimes, coarse grained adjustments are all that is needed. It’s also helpful that there are many materials on the impact of each band in the 10-band eq. 

Given how unreliable earbud measurements are, I haven’t even bothered using PEQ with earbuds.


----------



## Ronion

I would not consider earbud measurements any more unreliable than any other poorly contrived measurements.  They are all unreliable.  The propagation of this myth isn’t healthy for the hobby and I’m attempting to refute it.  It makes the hobby seem like utter voodoo and it’s not.   The reason the FiiO sound so good is because of careful measurements and engineering.  No luck or voodoo involved.  It’s understanding acoustics and psychoacoustics (Which is the title of a very good book on the subject). 

in the situation above, the transducers are used in 2 completely different ways yet measured the same.  If you were able to EQ them to the same target response, you can be certain that they would not sound the same in use.  Going inside the concha changes everything.


----------



## silverszi

o0genesis0o said:


> Have you thought about using a standard 10-band EQ? You can mimic one with PEQ as well. Adjust the Q value so that you modify a wider band at the same time to avoid adding unnecessary peaks.
> 
> In my experience, I found that, sometimes, coarse grained adjustments are all that is needed. It’s also helpful that there are many materials on the impact of each band in the 10-band eq.
> 
> Given how unreliable earbud measurements are, I haven’t even bothered using PEQ with earbuds.


using REW did not make it any easier to eq


----------



## silverszi

Ronion said:


> I would not consider earbud measurements any more unreliable than any other poorly contrived measurements.  They are all unreliable.  The propagation of this myth isn’t healthy for the hobby and I’m attempting to refute it.  It makes the hobby seem like utter voodoo and it’s not.   The reason the FiiO sound so good is because of careful measurements and engineering.  No luck or voodoo involved.  It’s understanding acoustics and psychoacoustics (Which is the title of a very good book on the subject).
> 
> in the situation above, the transducers are used in 2 completely different ways yet measured the same.  If you were able to EQ them to the same target response, you can be certain that they would not sound the same in use.  Going inside the concha changes everything.


I think they mean in general earbuds are more prone to sounding different in regular use, because the fit can be inconsistent.


----------



## silverszi (Aug 8, 2022)

You know what
I think these (lbbs) might be defective
they sound like they're always clipping but they aren't digitally
They were working fine day 1 but not anymore
They've started to crackle while being powered since I made that comment


----------



## Ronion

silverszi said:


> using REW did not make it any easier to eq


Under these circumstances, I’d expect the graphs to be misleading and not help with EQing at all.  In fact, they probably make it more confusing if a process.

FWIW, Any headphone, IEM, and Cans can be inconsistent when measuring and dramatically so.  Look at the debacle that occurred on ASR with the Abyss.   There’s still YouTube posts in response to that and even Jude made a response…  They are not really and more challenging than any other headphone, but they do require a high quality fake ear to place them in unfortunately and most people are unwilling to take the time or spend the money to do that.  Of course you can get them on AE for a couple dollars now, but most people would rather chalk it up to ‘this is a mysterious process’.  Of course the other part of that is learning to calibrate a rig which actually is challenging.  One day I might right an article on how to do it when I’m building my lab.  Until then, it’s really not difficult to figure out.  Of course the vast majority of earbud makers have never bothered.  As far as I know, it’s just FiiO that is measuring with clarity and logic.  I know Blur measures and it looks like he has a target… I have no idea how or if he’s actually derived one and what his methods are.  I know they don’t correlate with my measurements which means FiiO or rting’s either.


----------



## assassin10000

silverszi said:


> You know what
> I think these (lbbs) might be defective
> they sound like they're always clipping but they aren't digitally
> They were working fine day 1 but not anymore
> They've started to crackle while being powered since I made that comment


Try blowing and sucking lightly on the earbud face. Could be a crinkle in the diaphragm or hair inside the cover.

Sounds weird, but sometimes fixes things.


----------



## silverszi

assassin10000 said:


> Try blowing and sucking lightly on the earbud face. Could be a crinkle in the diaphragm or hair inside the cover.
> 
> Sounds weird, but sometimes fixes things.


i already did that
i know what was causing the crackle though
still cant fix the sibilance though and it's killing my enjoyment of them.


----------



## waynes world

tgx78 said:


> Trying out the SMABAT 150ohm driver and it sounds quite interesting on mx500. A bit warmer sounding than I anticipated.



Nice work! What can I say... I want them! (I really like the ST10 BG's). 

Then again, I want all of your buds lol


----------



## Halimj7

n00b said:


> Chaconne came in, thought they were DOA because apparently as I inserted one of them I must have flexed the driver. I pressed it up further into my ear canal and heard a click, then suddenly I had some bass response. Is this normal with this kind of design? Not inspiring confidence lol. For how well built they seem to be built, and how hefty they are, they also feel like delicate or I need to baby them. I can get them to fit but not at an optimal angle for the best seal when worn wires down. They're fine worn over the ear but I worry about the longevity of the cable at the base of the housing, given this is a non-replaceable cable at $330 USD x___X
> 
> Immediate impression is that their resolution, detail retrieval, airiness, soundstage, separation beats the EBX21 and ME80. Beats EBX21 at low end extension and some rumble, I think it doesn't sound as thick as ME80 but I'd have to go back and test that more thoroughly. Midbass is fast, clear, precise, has enough impact but doesn't feel aggressive or thumpy. I don't want to say it's restrained, but I will say it doesn't interfere with clarity of vocals and doesn't feel overpowering.
> 
> ...


Does the EBX21 do anything better than the Chaconne?


----------



## samandhi

Halimj7 said:


> Does the EBX21 do anything better than the Chaconne?


It depends on what your definition of better is. Point in case, I have not heard the EBX21, but I can say with (my percieved) surety that they cannot sound better in the mids and treble section. They are tuned perfectly. They just need a bit of bass (all around) to make them good for everything, not just instrumental (and incidentally classic rock also).

On the other hand that is just my take and YMMV, and probably will.


----------



## Buchi

My Bell-Lbs/Lbbs is dead. At first I thought it was the cable which is usually the culprit in most fixed cabled earphones. But after recabling there was still no sound from one of the drivers which led me to using my multimeter to confirm that the driver was indeed dead. 

Lasted 8 months only. For $48.48 including shipping, it was an expensive earbud which didn't live up to its hype. I wish I did the multimeter check first, I would have taken it up with NiceHCK store where I bought it from.


----------



## samandhi

Bummer! So, whats on the table next then?


----------



## silverszi

Buchi said:


> My Bell-Lbs/Lbbs is dead. At first I thought it was the cable which is usually the culprit in most fixed cabled earphones. But after recabling there was still no sound from one of the drivers which led me to using my multimeter to confirm that the driver was indeed dead.
> 
> Lasted 8 months only. For $48.48 including shipping, it was an expensive earbud which didn't live up to its hype. I wish I did the multimeter check first, I would have taken it up with NiceHCK store where I bought it from.


I might be able to beat you by 8 months.


----------



## Ronion (Aug 8, 2022)

silverszi said:


> i already did that
> i know what was causing the crackle though
> still cant fix the sibilance though and it's killing my enjoyment of them.


For sibilants, try reducing the output centered around 8kHz.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> I would not consider earbud measurements any more unreliable than any other poorly contrived measurements.  They are all unreliable.  The propagation of this myth isn’t healthy for the hobby and I’m attempting to refute it.  It makes the hobby seem like utter voodoo and it’s not.   The reason the FiiO sound so good is because of careful measurements and engineering.  No luck or voodoo involved.  It’s understanding acoustics and psychoacoustics (Which is the title of a very good book on the subject).
> 
> in the situation above, the transducers are used in 2 completely different ways yet measured the same.  If you were able to EQ them to the same target response, you can be certain that they would not sound the same in use.  Going inside the concha changes everything.



By unreliable, I mean the lack repeatability and a common standard for comparison. For example, if I measure IEMs on my IEC711 coupler, I can repeat the measure and achieve the same results consistently (if I align the resonance peak at the same place). Moreover, the results is more or less similar to others who also use IEC711. Sure, there are a couple db difference here and there, but they are within ballpark. So when I see a graph with IEC711, I know what to expect. 

As far as I know, there is no similar standard for ear buds. Perhaps the best we can do, which I plan to do, is attach a standard artificial ears on an IEC711 coupler to sit ear buds. Still, even in that case, I don't have much faith in repeatability of the measurements due to the way they fit. Given how FF3 sounds, I also have a bit of doubt about Fiio's graph because if the graph is right (15db ear gain, significantly rolled off at both ends), these earbuds wouldn't sound that right.

Anyhow, the pressure is on Fiio for not mucking up the FF5   If they do, I guess I'll try the DIY from TGXear. The one with speaker-like image sounds very interesting.


----------



## Ronion

Buchi said:


> My Bell-Lbs/Lbbs is dead. At first I thought it was the cable which is usually the culprit in most fixed cabled earphones. But after recabling there was still no sound from one of the drivers which led me to using my multimeter to confirm that the driver was indeed dead.
> 
> Lasted 8 months only. For $48.48 including shipping, it was an expensive earbud which didn't live up to its hype. I wish I did the multimeter check first, I would have taken it up with NiceHCK store where I bought it from.


You may be able to upgrade that driver.  It’s a cool little shell that I’d bet you could get to sound better.  Maybe @FranQL would offer some guidance…


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> By unreliable, I mean the lack repeatability and a common standard for comparison. For example, if I measure IEMs on my IEC711 coupler, I can repeat the measure and achieve the same results consistently (if I align the resonance peak at the same place). Moreover, the results is more or less similar to others who also use IEC711. Sure, there are a couple db difference here and there, but they are within ballpark. So when I see a graph with IEC711, I know what to expect.
> 
> As far as I know, there is no similar standard for ear buds. Perhaps the best we can do, which I plan to do, is attach a standard artificial ears on an IEC711 coupler to sit ear buds. Still, even in that case, I don't have much faith in repeatability of the measurements due to the way they fit. Given how FF3 sounds, I also have a bit of doubt about Fiio's graph because if the graph is right (15db ear gain, significantly rolled off at both ends), these earbuds wouldn't sound that right.
> 
> Anyhow, the pressure is on Fiio for not mucking up the FF5   If they do, I guess I'll try the DIY from TGXear. The one with speaker-like image sounds very interesting.


I think that what @Ronion was alluding to is that each person's concha is completely different, and where that matters is the fact that our concha, where earbuds are concerned act like a speaker housing or headphone cups. Each one will have different acoustics and etc... (a WHOLE lot more so than IEMs and headphones, which either totally cover your ears or go into your ears).

If you want (semi) reliable measurements, you might need to have a custom ear made (of your ear) for there to be both consistent, and reliable measurements at the same time. Putting earbuds up to a microphone will tell you basically nothing, because they will never be in your ear that way. 

Also, I have noticed that reading a graph for headphones/IEMs is totally different than with earbuds. You really need a good bassline to see what is good and what is bad for reading it. You almost need to unlearn everything that you have learned about graphs for other head gear (other than that you are reading sound in a written form). 

Just my blah... blah... blah... LOL


----------



## assassin10000

samandhi said:


> If you want (semi) reliable measurements, you might need to have a custom ear made (of your ear) for there to be both consistent, and reliable measurements at the same time. Putting earbuds up to a microphone will tell you basically nothing, because they will never be in your ear that way.



This.

I did that and actually got graphs similar to IEMs. Then made a custom adapter for repeatability, which is more important for tuning than what the graph actually looks like.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> By unreliable, I mean the lack repeatability and a common standard for comparison. For example, if I measure IEMs on my IEC711 coupler, I can repeat the measure and achieve the same results consistently (if I align the resonance peak at the same place). Moreover, the results is more or less similar to others who also use IEC711. Sure, there are a couple db difference here and there, but they are within ballpark. So when I see a graph with IEC711, I know what to expect.
> 
> As far as I know, there is no similar standard for ear buds. Perhaps the best we can do, which I plan to do, is attach a standard artificial ears on an IEC711 coupler to sit ear buds. Still, even in that case, I don't have much faith in repeatability of the measurements due to the way they fit. Given how FF3 sounds, I also have a bit of doubt about Fiio's graph because if the graph is right (15db ear gain, significantly rolled off at both ends), these earbuds wouldn't sound that right.
> 
> Anyhow, the pressure is on Fiio for not mucking up the FF5   If they do, I guess I'll try the DIY from TGXear. The one with speaker-like image sounds very interesting.


That part is true—no one is measuring many buds and posting them and I don’t know of any sort of repository.  With that said, buds are no different than any other headphone in their repeatability and reliability.  Just like all of them, you just have to understand what you are doing and what their limitations are.

Even if you attach a coupler to an ear, you are going to have to learn how to calibrate it and you won’t be able to do that without a dummy head and torso and an exceptionally well designed room and stereo.  The other option would be to buy a HATS or similar device.  

FiiO‘s graph is extremely accurate.  You have to read their measurement conditions and then read the several posts where I’ve posted the graphs with and without foams and then the post where I showed the graphs with different types of foams.  All this has been posted in the last couple weeks and I thought you had read them.  in any case, when I saw their graph, I knew roughly what to expect and it was dead on.  I’ve tried this with other buds and the rtings site.  Same results.  How it lined up with their target is essentially how it lined up with my calibrated target in my rig.  it also aligns very well with how I hear them.  I listened for days before I measured and I was dead on.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> That part is true—no one is measuring many buds and posting them and I don’t know of any sort of repository.  With that said, buds are no different than any other headphone in their repeatability and reliability.  Just like all of them, you just have to understand what you are doing and what their limitations are.
> 
> Even if you attach a coupler to an ear, you are going to have to learn how to calibrate it and you won’t be able to do that without a dummy head and torso and an exceptionally well designed room and stereo.  The other option would be to buy a HATS or similar device.
> 
> FiiO‘s graph is extremely accurate.  You have to read their measurement conditions and then read the several posts where I’ve posted the graphs with and without foams and then the post where I showed the graphs with different types of foams.  All this has been posted in the last couple weeks and I thought you had read them.  in any case, when I saw their graph, I knew roughly what to expect and it was dead on.  I’ve tried this with other buds and the rtings site.  Same results.  How it lined up with their target is essentially how it lined up with my calibrated target in my rig.  it also aligns very well with how I hear them.  I listened for days before I measured and I was dead on.



Perhaps @samandhi is right, I still look at graph from an IEM perspective. In IEM world, 15db ear gain is deadly. FF3 has around 15db ear gain according to Fiio. It sounds more like 10db gain of Moondrop's VDSF target rather than 12db of Harman target, and certainly not 15db. That's why I say "I have skepticism about FF3 measurement". If Fiio's earbuds measurement rig is dead-on accurate, and their IEM measurement rig is also dead-on accurate, then it means that I interpret the graph incorrectly, 15db ear gain with buds feel different from 10db ear gain with IEMs.

Funny enough, I did not see your post about Fiio's graph. Maybe it was before I started following this thread?


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> That part is true—no one is measuring many buds and posting them and I don’t know of any sort of repository.  With that said, buds are no different than any other headphone in their repeatability and reliability.  Just like all of them, you just have to understand what you are doing and what their limitations are.
> 
> Even if you attach a coupler to an ear, you are going to have to learn how to calibrate it and you won’t be able to do that without a dummy head and torso and an exceptionally well designed room and stereo.  The other option would be to buy a HATS or similar device.
> 
> FiiO‘s graph is extremely accurate.  You have to read their measurement conditions and then read the several posts where I’ve posted the graphs with and without foams and then the post where I showed the graphs with different types of foams.  All this has been posted in the last couple weeks and I thought you had read them.  in any case, when I saw their graph, I knew roughly what to expect and it was dead on.  I’ve tried this with other buds and the rtings site.  Same results.  How it lined up with their target is essentially how it lined up with my calibrated target in my rig.  it also aligns very well with how I hear them.  I listened for days before I measured and I was dead on.


I have read that the calibration is the "not so fun" part?!

Thats a good idea to listen to them quite a bit, even before looking at graphs. IMO they CAN poison your opinion before ever hearing them.

This is why marketing is still a huge thing, because Bose (for instance) have NEVER been worth the asking price, yet people keep thinking they are the "greatest" because that is what they are told...over, and over, and over. Lol


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> I have read that the calibration is the "not so fun" part?!
> 
> Thats a good idea to listen to them quite a bit, even before looking at graphs. IMO they CAN poison your opinion before ever hearing them.
> 
> This is why marketing is still a huge thing, because Bose (for instance) have NEVER been worth the asking price, yet people keep thinking they are the "greatest" because that is what they are told...over, and over, and over. Lol



My father used to tell me Sony and Bose are the best.

I don't know, Bose QC45 does sound quite decent.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> I think that what @Ronion was alluding to is that each person's concha is completely different, and where that matters is the fact that our concha, where earbuds are concerned act like a speaker housing or headphone cups. Each one will have different acoustics and etc... (a WHOLE lot more so than IEMs and headphones, which either totally cover your ears or go into your ears).
> 
> If you want (semi) reliable measurements, you might need to have a custom ear made (of your ear) for there to be both consistent, and reliable measurements at the same time. Putting earbuds up to a microphone will tell you basically nothing, because they will never be in your ear that way.
> 
> ...


You’re close.  What I’m really saying is that there isn’t much data available so when people see earbud measurements—even good ones—people won’t know how those translate into what they hear.  When you see these measurements made with devices that have zero correlation to how a bud is used, all bets are off.  They are likely worse than useless unless you are designing and tuning, but even then higher quality measurements are better.

basically when you see measurements made with a HATS or something similar, the measurements are going to translate similarly to how cans or IEMs translate.  Problem is: rtings has one and FiiO has one.  That’s our database.  That’s 💩.  Especially because FiiO‘s is done in a way that would be a horror show of sound for most people, but it’s still a very useful measurement for anyone who knows what they are doing.  Unfortunately, that’s a very small percentage of listeners.

in any case, good measurements will translate across listeners just as much as they do for other types of headphones.  Everyone does have different ears and that will change measurements if we were able to measure inside everyone’s ears, but that doesn’t effect translation just like it doesn’t in speakers, headphones, organs, pianos, violins and voices.  Fit is going to be important for everyone just as it is with other types of headphones and each present their own challenges.  With IEMs you have insertion depth and bore width plus a myriad of other external ear issues.  With cans you have head, jaw and neck undulations and pinna deformations and clamp tolerance.  In buds you have how well is sits in the tragus and concha.  They all have their remedies, buds are just remedied on the cheap and intuitively by comparison.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> You’re close.  What I’m really saying is that there isn’t much data available so when people see earbud measurements—even good ones—people won’t know how those translate into what they hear.  When you see these measurements made with devices that have zero correlation to how a bud is used, all bets are off.  They are likely worse than useless unless you are designing and tuning, but even then higher quality measurements are better.
> 
> basically when you see measurements made with a HATS or something similar, the measurements are going to translate similarly to how cans or IEMs translate.  Problem is: rtings has one and FiiO has one.  That’s our database.  That’s 💩.  Especially because FiiO‘s is done in a way that would be a horror show of sound for most people, but it’s still a very useful measurement for anyone who knows what they are doing.  Unfortunately, that’s a very small percentage of listeners.
> 
> in any case, good measurements will translate across listeners just as much as they do for other types of headphones.  Everyone does have different ears and that will change measurements if we were able to measure inside everyone’s ears, but that doesn’t effect translation just like it doesn’t in speakers, headphones, organs, pianos, violins and voices.  Fit is going to be important for everyone just as it is with other types of headphones and each present their own challenges.  With IEMs you have insertion depth and bore width plus a myriad of other external ear issues.  With cans you have head, jaw and neck undulations and pinna deformations and clamp tolerance.  In buds you have how well is sits in the tragus and concha.  They all have their remedies, buds are just remedied on the cheap and intuitively by comparison.


Thanks for sharing that tidbit of information! I generally learn something new every day here. Today is no exception.


----------



## Ronion (Aug 8, 2022)

I should add too that the better the shell designs, just like IEMs and cans are going to work better with more people’s heads and ears.  You can see this on various sites with cans in particular: better designed cans work better on more rigs than worse ones.  That doesn’t mean they’ll be more comfortable however.  It just means that from an acoustics standpoint, you’ll get better translation unless your head and ears are well outside of typical.

in buds, the PK and Lite shells are easy to get repeatable measurements.  The MX500 is harder but very doable.  The FiiO are also very easy.  This all could be different for different shaped ears, but most people seem to agree about shell fit for the most part.  There are always some shapes that don’t work well for some people.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> I should add too that the better the shell designs, just like IEMs and cans are going to work better with more people’s heads and ears.  You can see this on various sites with cans in particular: better designed cans work better on more rigs than worse ones.  That doesn’t mean they’ll be more comfortable however.  It just means that from an acoustics standpoint, you’ll get better translation unless your head and ears are well outside of typical.
> 
> in buds, the PK and Lite shells are easy to get repeatable measurements.  The MX500 is harder but very doable.  The FiiO are also very easy.  This all could be different for different shaped ears, but most people seem to agree about shell fit for the most part.  There are always some shapes that don’t work well for some people.


What type of shell, would you say is the hardest to "get repeatable"? Probably the "other" category, because of being an odd shape?


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> What type of shell, would you say is the hardest to "get repeatable"? Probably the "other" category, because of being an odd shape?


SMABAT shells in general unless they are enhanced by hooks and fins and things.


----------



## BCool

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but I'm curious: are there any earbuds that have better isolation? Or are they pretty much all the same due to limitations inherent in the form factor?
I say this because with open-back headphones, there are varying degrees of 'openness', my X2HRs are less open than my KSC75s for example.


----------



## yaps66 (Aug 9, 2022)

samandhi said:


> I'll bet they do?! It has been much the same with me, going from lesser power to more power. I think, now that I am used to them, I might do some foam "rolling". Gonna' try the Heigi foams next and see how that goes. I think the stock foams are thin, unless I miss my guess.
> 
> I really didn't think much of the cable in the beginning, but I have to say it has grown on me. That's not to say I like it any better, but it has just never gotten in the way or drawn adverse attention (like tangling, and etc...). It stays in the background (which makes it pretty good after all).
> 
> ...





yaps66 said:


> +1 on the cable. At first my feeling was "meh" but it is not too bad.  It is a little microphonic though so wish I could cable roll.  The other thing is that my right ear aches a little with it after a few hours of use but nothing too bad.
> 
> Thanks for the rec on the CRA+. Have just purchased!


Thanks again for the rec @samandhi.  These have just landed!






These do share some of the CCA OG signature but these are certainly much more fun!  Still can't believe how much these cost!

Anyway, back to the regular programming!

Edit: Someone once described these as a guilty pleasure.  I now know what he means!


----------



## astenlet (Aug 9, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> A lot of our lists and rankings are really about what was/is available... especially currently. My earbud god-tier list, when I maintained it, was always reflective of what was available and could be purchased in a reasonable time period. So many models appeared and disappeared on that particular list as time went by.
> 
> *Cypherus Audio (CAX)*
> 
> Herry at Cypherus Audio has been rather inactive the past few years, besides the few mods he made during the pandemic, he has been busy with other business and family life. I am currently working with him; commissioning a special custom earbud project. Very excited to say the least. Will keep all posted once it starts to move along which will take some time... again due to his busy life at the moment.





WoodyLuvr said:


> A lot of our lists and rankings are really about what was/is available... especially currently. My earbud god-tier list, when I maintained it, was always reflective of what was available and could be purchased in a reasonable time period. So many models appeared and disappeared on that particular list as time went by.
> 
> *Cypherus Audio (CAX)*
> 
> Herry at Cypherus Audio has been rather inactive the past few years, besides the few mods he made during the pandemic, he has been busy with other business and family life. I am currently working with him; commissioning a special custom earbud project. Very excited to say the least. Will keep all posted once it starts to move along which will take some time... again due to his busy life at the moment.


Hi woody i got some of herry earbuds: Cf1 one of the few prototype with slight tuning difference. Cf2 one of the earliest batch that i order with more detail. Mochi is a one of model that is the replacement for Qfred. Zf the one i got is a slight variation that become the zf pro. I have tried before the original red dragon that ends up with danneq and a few red dragon with all diff tuning.


----------



## samandhi (Aug 9, 2022)

yaps66 said:


> Thanks again for the rec @samandhi.  These have just landed!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Irony = I just slept in mine last night; they really are perfect for wearing at night (even for side sleeping).

Yeah, when I'm in the mood, I no longer feel guilty for being a "part-time" bass-head. 

Still, these should make some companies feel ashamed of themselves for charging as much as they do. Which isn't to say that they are better than everything out there (by no means), but for the price you simply can't beat them. Congratz on your new shiny! 

Edit: Love the cable btw!


----------



## Ronion (Aug 9, 2022)

@o0genesis0o this is what I’m talking about.  FiiO’s graphing conditions state without foams so I knew that with foams it would look much better—more bass, less pinna gain.  When you’ve been into buds for a while, this is intuitively obvious, but one visual might be needed to break that barrier.  Hopefully this graph will be an “aha! Eureka!” moment for the bud people.  Earbuds are far less mysterious than people think.  It’s just so much easier to do IEM measurements because the rig is far more available and the folks who have rigs capable of measuring buds are primarily interested in cans.  There’s just not a lot of interest in buds and thus anyone who wants a lot of traffic to their site doesn’t waste their time and space with buds. 
I’m glad that FiiO is still doing this work in spite of the fact that it won’t be a big money make for them.  Hopefully it’s at least profitable so they don’t decide to scrap it.  It’s definitely not going to compete with the IEMs.  I personally see the FF3 and FF5 as restitution for discontinuing the e12 MB and A5.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> @o0genesis0o this is what I’m talking about.  FiiO’s graphing conditions state without foams so I knew that with foams it would look much better—more bass, less pinna gain.  When you’ve been into buds for a while, this is intuitively obvious, but one visual might be needed to break that barrier.  Hopefully this graph will be an “aha! Eureka!” moment for the bud people.  Earbuds are far less mysterious than people think.  It’s just so much easier to do IEM measurements because the rig is far more available and the folks who have rigs capable of measuring buds are primarily interested in cans.  There’s just not a lot of interest in buds and thus anyone who wants a lot of traffic to their site doesn’t waste their time and space with buds.
> I’m glad that FiiO is still doing this work in spite of the fact that it won’t be a big money make for them.  Hopefully it’s at least profitable so they don’t decide to scrap it.  It’s definitely not going to compete with the IEMs.  I personally see the FF3 and FF5 as restitution for discontinuing the e12 MB and A5.


That is a pretty sizable difference than without foams... 

P.S. You REALLY miss your MB don't you? hehe Why don't you have it anymore?


----------



## Setmagic (Aug 9, 2022)

Ronion said:


> @o0genesis0o this is what I’m talking about.  FiiO’s graphing conditions state without foams so I knew that with foams it would look much better—more bass, less pinna gain.  When you’ve been into buds for a while, this is intuitively obvious, but one visual might be needed to break that barrier.  Hopefully this graph will be an “aha! Eureka!” moment for the bud people.  Earbuds are far less mysterious than people think.  It’s just so much easier to do IEM measurements because the rig is far more available and the folks who have rigs capable of measuring buds are primarily interested in cans.  There’s just not a lot of interest in buds and thus anyone who wants a lot of traffic to their site doesn’t waste their time and space with buds.
> I’m glad that FiiO is still doing this work in spite of the fact that it won’t be a big money make for them.  Hopefully it’s at least profitable so they don’t decide to scrap it.  It’s definitely not going to compete with the IEMs.  I personally see the FF3 and FF5 as restitution for discontinuing the e12 MB and A5.


FF3 will be discontinued as well


----------



## samandhi

Setmagic said:


> FF3 will be discounted as well


Maybe it already is? I got it (this week) for $10 cheaper than I have seen it recently $99.


----------



## Setmagic

samandhi said:


> Maybe it already is? I got it (this week) for $10 cheaper than I have seen it recently $99.


Ahh bad Google auto correction on phone...
Discontinued*


----------



## Halimj7

baskingshark said:


> NiceHCK EBX21


Based on your recommendation and reviews I ordered these. Thanks!


----------



## syazwaned

Hi, I am looking for an upgrade for my k's LBBS


*budget* less than 250 usd
*source* Questyle M15 & Apogee Groove
*preferred connection* Balanced
*listening level & session length* 1 hours or more, with 10 break in between
*listening environment* anywhere
*preferred sound signature i* _(neutral like lbbs, chaconne)_
*preferred sound signature ii* neutral like lbbs or chaconne
*any special need and/or consideration* _ must be mmcx connection. I have the chaconne before, while it pains me to have sold it before due to money issue, I would like earbuds that have mmcx connection to ensure longevity of my earbuds._
_My initial recommendation is EBX21 and DQSM PD21, but happy to listen for other recommendation. Thanks, appreciate in advance!_


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> That is a pretty sizable difference than without foams...
> 
> P.S. You REALLY miss your MB don't you? hehe Why don't you have it anymore?


I still have it, I just dread the day I can’t buy a new battery for it.  It’s my favorite portable amp ever made.  I just wish they would bring it back or the A5.  They are rock solid, powerful, great sounding amps and small.  The e12 is just a bit more powerful and colorful and seems to handle high impedance cans better.  The A5 is one of the most neutral, black background, quietest amps ever built, portable or otherwise.   


Setmagic said:


> FF3 will be discontinued as well





samandhi said:


> Maybe it already is? I got it (this week) for $10 cheaper than I have seen it recently $99.


you guys are just trying to give me a coronary.  LOL.  In all seriousness, it will be continued some day, but I don’t think it’s going to be replaced by something less potent.  With the way portable transducers have been going, the future looks bright.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> I still have it, I just dread the day I can’t buy a new battery for it.  It’s my favorite portable amp ever made.  I just wish they would bring it back or the A5.  They are rock solid, powerful, great sounding amps and small.  The e12 is just a bit more powerful and colorful and seems to handle high impedance cans better.  The A5 is one of the most neutral, black background, quietest amps ever built, portable or otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> you guys are just trying to give me a coronary.  LOL.  In all seriousness, it will be continued some day, but I don’t think it’s going to be replaced by something less potent.  With the way portable transducers have been going, the future looks bright.


Well, I never got the chance to listen to it, but always heard good things about it. The two that I have (E17, and E17K) are great as long as you don't need too much power. E17 being the warmer of the two. Though they DO sound amazing for what they are/cost. 

No, it probably won't be replaced by crap, I agree. I have never known FiiO to (purposely) discontinue something for something that isn't at least little step up, if not bigger. Though they HAVE been known to discontinue something before it is done baking (if you will). The OG X5 and X3II for example (the two that I bought). 

In the meantime, I have a lot of stuff to evaluate. I just got the Focal Elegia a couple weeks ago, I just ordered the Raptgo Hook-X (been on the fence with these for a long time, but now that the wife is out of town, she can't say no lol), a set of FiiO FF3 buds, and our good friend @FranQL has made me a(n) (absolutely gorgeous) set of custom earbuds (I'm so excited about these that I could almost p*** myself like a lil' puppy ).


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Well, I never got the chance to listen to it, but always heard good things about it. The two that I have (E17, and E17K) are great as long as you don't need too much power. E17 being the warmer of the two. Though they DO sound amazing for what they are/cost.
> 
> No, it probably won't be replaced by crap, I agree. I have never known FiiO to (purposely) discontinue something for something that isn't at least little step up, if not bigger. Though they HAVE been known to discontinue something before it is done baking (if you will). The OG X5 and X3II for example (the two that I bought).
> 
> In the meantime, I have a lot of stuff to evaluate. I just got the Focal Elegia a couple weeks ago, I just ordered the Raptgo Hook-X (been on the fence with these for a long time, but now that the wife is out of town, she can't say no lol), a set of FiiO FF3 buds, and our good friend @FranQL has made me a(n) (absolutely gorgeous) set of custom earbuds (I'm so excited about these that I could almost p*** myself like a lil' puppy ).


Lucky man brother!  Your going to have a great week.


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> just ordered the Raptgo Hook-X



Looking forward for your impressions. The S12 (planar) has been outstanding in terms of technical performance, but the tuning was quite poor (too aggressive, fixable by taping the nozzle and closing the back vents). If Shuoer tunes this IEM milder, puts it in a fancier shell, and slap a kilobuck price tag on it, I believe that audiophile folks would talk about it like “endgame”.


----------



## samandhi (Aug 10, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Lucky man brother!  Your going to have a great week.


Thank you, brother! I believe you are right, though just not THIS week...  

The FF3 should be here Sept 5th (according to tracking). The Hook-X will be here this Friday, and I don't really know when the custom buds will be here (though, those are the ones I am wanting to hear the most). Though I have been burning in my Focals (OMG how awesome they are BTW). Bought some custom Dekoni Stelia lambskin pads for them, and (almost literally) they are two different sets between the stock pads and those.

I will be sure to post some pics of @FranQL's artwork when they arrive (and they ARE indeed fantastic looking). I can't thank him enough! What a wonderful human being he is (OK, enough sappy crap)... 


o0genesis0o said:


> Looking forward for your impressions. The S12 (planar) has been outstanding in terms of technical performance, but the tuning was quite poor (too aggressive, fixable by taping the nozzle and closing the back vents). If Shuoer tunes this IEM milder, puts it in a fancier shell, and slap a kilobuck price tag on it, I believe that audiophile folks would talk about it like “endgame”.


If this one is as good as they say it is, then I may be at end game for planar IEMs. I currently have the Tinhifi P1, which I DO love but are not end game, and the 7Hz Timeless which are great, but again, not quite there.

I almost went for the S12 right after it came out, but I decided to wait a while and see if there was anything new around the corner. And sure enough there were (and quite a few too), but then is when I saw the Tinhifi P1 Max and the Hook-X. Both looked like really great fits for me but since I already have the P1 (OG), I thought I would go with the more unique of the two. We shall see.. 

In case you can't tell I am an ortho DD nut (I also have two sets of planar headphones). This is why I went googoo when @ValSuki talked about wanting to do planar earbuds (the idea STILL makes me smile BTW). And although I know it will be difficult, I still hold out hope that he can do it someday. 

Edit: If the Hook-X are indeed great, I may sell off my Timeless (though I would never part with my P1s).


----------



## syazwaned

syazwaned said:


> Hi, I am looking for an upgrade for my k's LBBS
> 
> 
> *budget* less than 250 usd
> ...


Or should I wait for ff5?


----------



## samandhi

syazwaned said:


> Or should I wait for ff5?


I am sorry, I didn't answer only because of all the ones I have/have heard, the Chaconne are really the only ones that are neutral. Though I would consider the Yincrow RW2000 the closest to neutral I have heard besides the Chaconne (the RW3000 could be considered bright neutral, or W depending on your sensitivity levels and where they lie). All the rest are either warm, bright, or W shaped. 

The Smabat ST10S Black and Gold doesn't really fit any of those. I would call them a deep U at the lower end but a small little dip, then back up again in the upper mids, making a lopsided W.


----------



## o0genesis0o

syazwaned said:


> Or should I wait for ff5?


FF5 is coming next month anyway. If I were you, I would wait and see how it goes. At least you will have peace of mind, if FF5 craps out.

But of course, I would never be able to wait and end up with both and a bunch more earbuds


----------



## syazwaned

o0genesis0o said:


> FF5 is coming next month anyway. If I were you, I would wait and see how it goes. At least you will have peace of mind, if FF5 craps out.
> 
> But of course, I would never be able to wait and end up with both and a bunch more earbuds


hahaha 😂😂. Ok I'll wait for ff5


----------



## jeejack

samandhi said:


> I will be sure to post some pics of @FranQL's artwork when they arrive (and they ARE indeed fantastic looking). I can't thank him enough! What a wonderful human being he is (OK, enough sappy crap)...


There you have a lot of work, passion and love. @FranQL  is one of the founding members of the DIY Workroom group 🍻


----------



## Ronion

syazwaned said:


> hahaha 😂😂. Ok I'll wait for ff5


If the FF5 is a dud, we know the FF3 is not. It will still be available regardless of what @Setmagic or @samandhi say.  Unlike ourselves, they are both crazy people anyway.  Oh, but you want mmcx….Don‘t we all.


----------



## gordonli (Aug 10, 2022)

Quick impressions of Fengru DIY QGM S300, black edition, which I think is different from the white version which may be the same as White Lotus which I haven't tried? (Balanced vs bass version Qigom S300s?) I picked these up for fun among other for-fun buds yet to come.



Spoiler: pic










Build quality seems good. Cable same as LBBS. Fabric sleeve. Chin slider. Comes with 3 pairs (unflattened!) foams. In a quality hard fabric case of the Nicehck/Xinhs kind. Talk about value!

Powered fine from dongle (Hiby FC4) and just the phone too.

Frequency response is quite comfortable to listen to and reasonably balanced. Subbass is rolled off only a little lower than what I would call neutral. Mild mid bass emphasis. Moderate upper mid gain. Past that, treble is a little dark. Doesn't sound like would need much EQ if I were bothered.

Stage is very wide and open, ok depth. Bass dynamics are responsive and quick. Mid dynamics are also good, but can be hard to tell due to mid bass emphasis. Mid and treble detail is good.

I think these are great value for money and a great budget rec (e.g. I would choose over LBBS even at same price: less ear gain, probably better dynamics)

I was curious about these drivers and now I'm satisfied. Cheers!


----------



## Setmagic (Aug 10, 2022)

Ronion said:


> If the FF5 is a dud, we know the FF3 is not. It will still be available regardless of what @Setmagic or @samandhi say.  Unlike ourselves, they are both crazy people anyway.  Oh, but you want mmcx….Don‘t we all.


Guilty 
I'm not sure I like mmcx that much anymore. It's only 4 points of soldering but 4 metal prices additional weight.

Most amazing thing in buds is that they are ultra light and I will choose it over mmcx for now.
Maybe i will change my mind to use my 16 cores premium cables with big shiny connectors to impress... myself in mirror.


----------



## Black-Wolf (Aug 10, 2022)

Hello,
As i've bought some time ago a pair of Yinman 600 (more about them later), and i like to use my earbuds around the house or in my garden, i wanted a transportable AMP able to drive them fully.

As Ifi Audio and Chord are a bit expensive for me, i went for an Xduuo XD05 Plus.
Well, if you're looking  for a dac/AMP combo for the most demanding buds, don't look further.

It works wonderfully with the Yinman 600... But also with my Senn HD650, my Audeze LCD2 and my TinHifi P1.

Much power, very clean, sufficient for demanding cans and buds (voltage hungry or current hungry)...battery powered ans less than 300 euros... A real deal.

I'm not into Vodoo at all for amps and dacs, especially with solid state devices: if distorsion is low, power is sufficient and SINAD is above the audible threshold:  perfect for me. With the Yinman, i think they are fed very well and they do sound fantastic. I tried to compare with my desktop set: no difference, and i am a relatively well trained listener. (Maybe golden ears would disagree..)

The Yinman are really some of the best earbuds i ever heard, with the Turandot, the Newbesound 32Pro and the Riku Grand Rider 1 (each in their category)...the Yinman have something special in their tuning, very similar to a pair of Open Back cans, as they seem so effortless... (Partly because they have very good low end and not a lot of pinna gain)


 And perfectly driven by the Xduoo, which is a bargain in this category for a good transportable combo.


Just a thing:the XD05 Plus is not very good with sensitive stuff, a bit too much noise and not enough play with the volume wheel.
For sensitive IEM and buds, go for a Hidisz S9, an E1DA or a Luxury and Precision (if you want to spend a bit more) dongle.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> If the FF5 is a dud, we know the FF3 is not. It will still be available regardless of what @Setmagic or @samandhi say.  Unlike ourselves, they are both crazy people anyway.  Oh, but you want mmcx….Don‘t we all.


Hey! I resemble that remark.... 


Black-Wolf said:


> Hello,
> As i've bought some time ago a pair of Yinman 600 (more about them later), and i like to use my earbuds around the house or in my garden, i wanted a transportable AMP able to drive them fully.
> 
> As Ifi Audio and Chord are a bit expensive for me, i went for an Xduuo XD05 Plus.
> ...


Fantastic! 

I agree with your assessment of the Yinman on their tuning. The magic in them is because the wood used to make them is from Jack's beanstalk (which was grown from magic beans, as we all know). How else could they sound so good?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 10, 2022)

Black-Wolf said:


> Hello,
> As i've bought some time ago a pair of Yinman 600 (more about them later), and i like to use my earbuds around the house or in my garden, i wanted a transportable AMP able to drive them fully.
> 
> As Ifi Audio and Chord are a bit expensive for me, i went for an Xduuo XD05 Plus.
> ...


*XDuoo XD-05 Plus Black Edition* HeadAMP driving my *Blur 美魔女 Beautiful Witch "Dark" (300Ω) *ear buds:





But my experience didn't last long ... more *here*


----------



## ian91

WoodyLuvr said:


> *XDuoo XD-05 Plus Black Edition* HeadAMP driving my *Blur 美魔女 Beautiful Witch "Dark" (300Ω) *ear buds:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I used to have this amp. It was great for the first few weeks but quickly developed noise and some feedback that I couldn't isolate. Very powerful though!

I think I need to look into the Yinman.  Compared to the MX500 shell is it much bigger? I have smallish ears...


----------



## rcoleman1 (Aug 10, 2022)

Hey guys. Is there a list for websites of some TOTL custom earbuds here on Head-Fi? Seeking to add to the collection but I don't do social media so no Facebook or Instagram. Currently I'm enjoying my Blurs. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Black-Wolf (Aug 10, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> *XDuoo XD-05 Plus Black Edition* HeadAMP driving my *Blur 美魔女 Beautiful Witch "Dark" (300Ω) *ear buds:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Too bad...i think Xduoo may cut corners on QC in order to remain less expansive than IFi or Chord, for example, that's a shame. (but nothing is perfect, even on the higher end. I mentioned Chord earlier...the cost for a new battery is prohibitive on a Mojo, for exemple, is at least as expansive than a whole new Xduoo)

Sorry for the off-topic, i'm just like a child with the Xduoo/Yinman combo.


@ian91 : the shell on the Yinman is not much bigger than an Mx500, but it may not be as stable as an MX500 though. the long stem helps and they are light and quite confortable but they may move a little bit compared to the more "ergonomic" MX500 shell...but it is not problematic as some shell (Bell LBBS, Astrotec, Smabat) can sometimes be. I have small ears too and it is ok for me


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 10, 2022)

ian91 said:


> I used to have this amp. It was great for the first few weeks but quickly developed noise and some feedback that I couldn't isolate. Very powerful though!
> 
> I think I need to look into the Yinman.  Compared to the MX500 shell is it much bigger? I have smallish ears...


What @Black-Wolf said... ever so slightly larger diameter face. I too have small ears/ear canals and I have had no fitting issues at all. They are extremely light-weight with a long stems so remain quite stable in my experience.


Black-Wolf said:


> Too bad...i think Xduoo may cut corners on QC in order to remain less expansive than IFi or Chord, for example, that's a shame. (but nothing is perfect, even on the higher end. I mentioned Chord earlier...the cost for a new battery is prohibitive on a Mojo, for exemple, is at least as expansive than a whole new Xduoo)
> 
> Sorry for the off-topic, i'm just like a child with the Xduoo/Yinman combo.
> 
> ...


Did either one of you gents swap out the opamp? The stock TI OPA1612A is a good opamp but I found the *Analog Devices AD827SQ* to be much better for earbuds across the board.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

rcoleman1 said:


> Hey guys. Is there a list for websites of some TOTL custom earbuds here on Head-Fi? Seeking to add to the collection but I don't do social media so no Facebook or Instagram. Currently I'm enjoying my Blurs. Thanks in advance.


I don't know about a list, but I ordered from Cypherus Audio. The guy that makes them will work with you on naking one tonyour exact preferences. The pair he made for me is based on their latest TOTL model, but is tuned differently because I asked for some specific properties in regards to lack of warm in the mids and a few other things. I'm interested to see what hr comes up with. I am going to contact Riku right now and probably gtx later tonight after I do some more reasearch on his models by sifting through posts on them today.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I don't know about a list, but I ordered from Cypherus Audio. The guy that makes them will work with you on naking one tonyour exact preferences. The pair he made for me is based on their latest TOTL model, but is tuned differently because I asked for some specific properties in regards to lack of warm in the mids and a few other things. I'm interested to see what hr comes up with. I am going to contact Riku right now and probably gtx later tonight after I do some more reasearch on his models by sifting through posts on them today.


Which model did you order?


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 10, 2022)

Hey guys, a pair of Simponio Dragon 3s that I totally forgot I had ordered showed up at my house today. I don't get home for two more days so I was hoping you guys could help assuage my curiosity and tide me over by telling me what to expect. I bought them because they were a set that was highly recommended by the friend of mine who helped guide me into looking for the best buds to try out for the few high end buds I want for the top of my collection.

I have had a few weeks with the HE 150Pros now and I have to say for a $23 bud these things are absolutely fantastic. Their bass reaches pretty deep and is smooth without being flabby or undetailed. The mids are definitely more male focused, but they sound amazing with gritiier male vocals like Mike Ness of Social Distortion or Steve Earle sounding particularly powerful just to name a couple standouts. The treble is ever so slightly rolled off so that the whole sonic presentation can best be decribed as smooth. They aren't the most technical buds around, but they aren't detail deficient either. Overall, they are a great, well tuned bud for relaxing and enjoyable listening sessions and they're so comfortable that those sessions can last for as long as you'd like.

Last thing I wanted to bring up is the Ucotech ES-P1. These are by no means cheap, but for what you get they are definitely worth every penny. Hands down the best and most impressive earbud I have heard so far and despite only being involved with the earbud hobby for a few months I have heard and own(ed) some of the best. These are the most detailed earbuds by far. The low end is deep and punchy and it hits hard when called for but can also be quite delicate and reserved when asked to be so by the track. Their low end is the most lively, articulate, dynamically sophisticated, and powerful I have ever heard in an earbuds even over my Aiwa HP-V99s which the vintage community thinks of as being the holy grail of earbuds for its similar low end qualities. The ES-P1's mids are spacious and loaded with detail, rendering male and female vocals with equal aplomb, giving distorted guitars plenty of crunch, and tom strikes/fills nice punch, quick attack, and equally quick decay. The treble extends well and allows you to hear every micro detail and all the shimmering cymbals you could want. I have heard otherd say that the treble is the weakness of the ES-P1, but I must disagree. It seems to me that it was intentionally tuned to be somewhat conservative in its presentation so as not to become the focus of the music, rather just a part of or controbutor to it and I think Ucotech was quite successful in executing this tuning. The ES-P1s also have the best build quality of any earbud I have ever come across. They are machines from solid brass and they come with perhaps the best stock cable I have ever seen. I will likely never get rid of my ES-P1s. They are truly a work of art both visually and sonically.

Just wanted to share some quick thoughts and ask for impressions on those Simponio Dragon 3s. I hope I didn't sound too ridiculously amateur...lol!


----------



## Charlyro222

First listening out of the box of TgXear's Alpha Earbud.

No doubt, his best tunned earbud right now.

Great soundstage but on the intimate side, cristal and detailed mids, almost perfect layering.

The singer is whispering next to you, you can feel all the nuances and at same time the soulness of the song

The price for that outstanding mids are no lows, but who cares whith this vocals.


----------



## silverszi

Ok so using REW for eq is good actually
I was just aiming for the wrong target.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

WoodyLuvr said:


> Which model did you order?


CAX Red Dragon, but tweaked to have less warmth to be more clinical sounding. After discussing my preferences and musical tastes and all that jazz the Red Dragon was what he recommended and he said he thought he could tweak it to make it perfect for me.

Do you have a Cypherus model?


----------



## Chessnaudio

WoodyLuvr said:


> My *Blur 266 MX64 aPs (64Ω); 2.5TRRS Balanced; No.1 *earbuds arrived this morning from Singapore from *Wong*.
> 
> The "266" indicates cabling; 2 x 133-core per side. MX represents the Type 1 MX500 shell used. 64 is the impedance. And "aPs" indicates *A*ir *P*ocket *S*hell which is a physical upgrade Wong has made to the Type I MX500 shell. He has engineered an "_air pocket within the shell. The name said it all and is basically like lung. This air pocket will keep/maintain certain pressure inside the shell (or drivers back pressure )_".
> 
> ...


Those look sweet. Enjoy!


----------



## MelodyMood

*Hi Guys. Regarding NICEHCK YD30. There are two cable options: one with OFC Copper Cable and one is Silver one. The seller mentioned that OFC Cable has thicker sound and good bass and Silver one is Clear sound and good separation. My question (if any one bought and used them), if OFC cable also has good separation and clarity? Or if Silver one has decent bass and smooth sound and not harsh due to good separation? Which one I should buy?  I want good separation but don't want harsh sound with no bass at all. And if separation is good in OFC Cable (may be 10-15% less than Silver one), then buying that is not a bad idea at all. Please suggest.*


----------



## FatihEnes

MelodyMood said:


> *Hi Guys. Regarding NICEHCK YD30. There are two cable options: one with OFC Copper Cable and one is Silver one. The seller mentioned that OFC Cable has thicker sound and good bass and Silver one is Clear sound and good separation. My question (if any one bought and used them), if OFC cable also has good separation and clarity? Or if Silver one has decent bass and smooth sound and not harsh due to good separation? Which one I should buy?  I want good separation but don't want harsh sound with no bass at all. And if separation is good in OFC Cable (may be 10-15% less than Silver one), then buying that is not a bad idea at all. Please suggest.*


They will sound the same, take the one ,that looks good.


----------



## syazwaned

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...5f5-9b9a-4655-ab37-bd09e55e9065-0&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id"%3A"64713503329"%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21USD%21133.0%21114.38%21%21%21%21%21%402101e9cf16601862512063881e02a2%2164713503329%21sea&curPageLogUid=H4062qwnsTCt


Is this one the Yinman 2022 600 ohm?


----------



## syazwaned

It is this one? The limited edition one?


----------



## MelodyMood

FatihEnes said:


> They will sound the same, take the one ,that looks good.


They both are tuned differently it seems so if anyone has used both or any of them, can comment how they sound.


----------



## samandhi

syazwaned said:


> It is this one? The limited edition one?


The link from your first post, for some reason only takes me to AE homepage, so I can't say for sure, but if it is at the store AVCCK on AE, then yes, it is the correct place. 

Note, that they don't look like that, and you will need to chat with them through that page to tell them what type of connector. They are the wooden long stem type (with fixed cable).


----------



## syazwaned (Aug 10, 2022)

samandhi said:


> The link from your first post, for some reason only takes me to AE homepage, so I can't say for sure, but if it is at the store AVCCK on AE, then yes, it is the correct place.
> 
> Note, that they don't look like that, and you will need to chat with them through that page to tell them what type of connector. They are the wooden long stem type (with fixed cable).


thanks!


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 10, 2022)

Anyone have experience with the **** PT2022? I am being offered a pair for free because of another order I made and I'm wondering which resistance to get. They come in 365ohm, 275ohm, 147ohm, and 32ohm. I know that in some models the resistance can make all the difference with one model sounding great, but the same one in a different resistance sounding so-so or worse. My natural inclination would be to go for 275 or 365 because I have found that higher resistance insmall drivers tends to let them open up and become quite expressive with proper amp power, but this is obviously far from universal. Any help/guidance would be appreciated.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Anyone have experience with the **** PT2022? I am being offered a pair for free because of another order I made and I'm wondering which resistance to get. They come in 365ohm, 275ohm, 147ohm, and 32ohm. I know that in some models the resistance can make all the difference with one model sounding great, but the same one in a different resistance sounding so-so or worse. My natural inclination would be to go for 275 or 365 because I have found that higher resistance insmall drivers tends to let them open up and become quite expressive with proper amp power, but this is obviously far from universal. Any help/guidance would be appreciated.


Why does it change S-e-n-f-e-r to **** in my post?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 11, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Anyone have experience with the **** PT2022? I am being offered a pair for free because of another order I made and I'm wondering which resistance to get. They come in 365ohm, 275ohm, 147ohm, and 32ohm. I know that in some models the resistance can make all the difference with one model sounding great, but the same one in a different resistance sounding so-so or worse. My natural inclination would be to go for 275 or 365 because I have found that higher resistance insmall drivers tends to let them open up and become quite expressive with proper amp power, but this is obviously far from universal. Any help/guidance would be appreciated.


Like it's older sister the PT2021, the higher impedances are recommended. Avoid the 32Ω version!

More *here* about the PT2021... they are very similar sounding and tuned to the newer PT2022. The PT2022 has been tuned for slightly more bass that is about it sound wise. Please note that the general "house sound" of this brand can be quite fatiguing for the treble sensitive.


----------



## syazwaned

samandhi said:


> I am sorry, I didn't answer only because of all the ones I have/have heard, the Chaconne are really the only ones that are neutral. Though I would consider the Yincrow RW2000 the closest to neutral I have heard besides the Chaconne (the RW3000 could be considered bright neutral, or W depending on your sensitivity levels and where they lie). All the rest are either warm, bright, or W shaped.
> 
> The Smabat ST10S Black and Gold doesn't really fit any of those. I would call them a deep U at the lower end but a small little dip, then back up again in the upper mids, making a lopsided W.



Thanks, RW2000 is well below my budget, probably will get it in a month or so.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Oct 8, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hey guys, a pair of Simponio Dragon 3s that I totally forgot I had ordered showed up at my house today. I don't get home for two more days so I was hoping you guys could help assuage my curiosity and tide me over by telling me what to expect. I bought them because they were a set that was highly recommended by the friend of mine who helped guide me into looking for the best buds to try out for the few high end buds I want for the top of my collection.
> 
> Just wanted to share some quick thoughts and ask for impressions on those Simponio Dragon 3s. I hope I didn't sound too ridiculously amateur...lol!


Regarding the *2021 Simphonio (Sunrise Audio - HiSoundAudio) SW-Dragon 3 Plus; 120Ω (aka SWD3+*)...

I have heard and/or owned all of them (Dragon series) starting from the original Sunrise Audio SWD from c2010 all the way up to the latest released model the SWD3+ and they have progressively gotten better with each model release and have gotten warmer and less brighter as well. I didn't really care for the first two early models which I found to be shouty and harsh (quite aggressive) and they were also quite excited which really wore me out. It wasn't until I heard the SWD2+ that I started to appreciate their signature and started recommending them... though be warned that although they are slightly warm-leaning they do exhibit some treble leanings (slightly bright characteristics) as well. The SWD2+, SWD2LE, SWD3, and the new SWD3+ all exhibit a slightly naughty sharpness in the treble area which I personally still find to be quite fatiguing.

The *Simphonio SWD3+* is great (the warmest of the entire series) but you must like treble and not turned off by bright characteristics. The SWD3+ does offer more details and better timbre than either the SWD3 or the SWD2+ which I found to be very similar (believe I liked the lower impedance SWD2+ better than the SWD3).* The Simphonios are quite resolving probably perfect for critical listening such as grand dynamic classical pieces.* 

Price - Value wise Simphonios are way overpriced but that is only my opinion and they are good earbuds nonetheless and sat on my *Earbuds God-Tier List* for good reason (*additional info*).

2021 - Simphonio (Sunrise Audio - HiSoundAudio) SW-Dragon 3 Plus; 120Ω (aka* SWD3+*)
2020 - Simphonio (Sunrise Audio - HiSoundAudio) SW-Dragon 2 Limited Edition; 120Ω (aka *SWD2LE*)
2019 - Simphonio (Sunrise Audio - HiSoundAudio) SW-Dragon 3; 150Ω (aka *SWD3*)
2017 - Simphonio (Sunrise Audio - HiSoundAudio) SW-Dragon 2 Plus; 16Ω (aka *SWD2+*)
2012 - Sunrise Audio (HiSoundAudio - Simphonio) SW-Dragon II; 120Ω (aka *SWD2*)
2010 - Sunrise Audio (HiSoundAudio - Simphonio) SW-Dragon; 150Ω (aka *SWD*)


----------



## WoodyLuvr

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Last thing I wanted to bring up is the Ucotech ES-P1. These are by no means cheap, but for what you get they are definitely worth every penny. Hands down the best and most impressive earbud I have heard so far and despite only being involved with the earbud hobby for a few months I have heard and own(ed) some of the best. These are the most detailed earbuds by far. The low end is deep and punchy and it hits hard when called for but can also be quite delicate and reserved when asked to be so by the track. Their low end is the most lively, articulate, dynamically sophisticated, and powerful I have ever heard in an earbuds even over my Aiwa HP-V99s which the vintage community thinks of as being the holy grail of earbuds for its similar low end qualities. The ES-P1's mids are spacious and loaded with detail, rendering male and female vocals with equal aplomb, giving distorted guitars plenty of crunch, and tom strikes/fills nice punch, quick attack, and equally quick decay. The treble extends well and allows you to hear every micro detail and all the shimmering cymbals you could want. I have heard otherd say that the treble is the weakness of the ES-P1, but I must disagree. It seems to me that it was intentionally tuned to be somewhat conservative in its presentation so as not to become the focus of the music, rather just a part of or controbutor to it and I think Ucotech was quite successful in executing this tuning. The ES-P1s also have the best build quality of any earbud I have ever come across. They are machines from solid brass and they come with perhaps the best stock cable I have ever seen. I will likely never get rid of my ES-P1s. They are truly a work of art both visually and sonically.


The ES-P1 are indeed beautifully engineered and very, very, very well-made... easily in my top three flatheads for aesthetics only...

*WoodyLuvr's All-Time Top Fifteen Flathead Earbuds by Aesthetics Only*

They didn't suit my preferences though... they didn't fair so well with my picky tastes and sensitive ears; more *here*.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Chessnaudio said:


> Those look sweet. Enjoy!


What a blast from my past! LOL!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

WoodyLuvr said:


> Regarding the *SWD3+*...
> 
> I have heard and/or owned all of them now starting from the original Sunrise Audio SWD from c2010 all the way up to the latest released model the SWD3+ and they have progressively gotten better with each model release. I didn't really care for the first two early models which I found to be shouty and harsh (quite aggressive) and they were quite excited which really wore me out. It wasn't until I heard the SWD2+ that I started to appreciate their signature and started recommending them though be warned they are treble leaning (slightly bright). The SWD2+, SWD2LE, SWD3, and the new SWD3+ all exhibit a slightly naughty sharpness in the treble area which I personally still find to be quite fatiguing.
> 
> ...


I actually tend to like bright signatures and I don't often think they're fatiguing unless they're really too bright. In which case, I wouldn't like them anyways. I like all kingds of sound signatures, butany of my favorite headphones and earbuds would be considered bright. For example, many think the TK Viridis is bright, ome think it's too bright, and it's one of my favorite earbuds I have heard so far regardless of price and will remain in my collection for sure.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

WoodyLuvr said:


> Like it's older sister the PT2021, the higher impedances are recommended. Avoid the 32Ω version!
> 
> More *here* about the PT2021... they are very similar sounding and tuned to the newer PT2022. The PT2022 has been tuned for slightly more bass that is about it sound wise. Please note that the general "house sound" of this brand can be quite fatiguing for the treble sensitive.



I went ahead and grabbed the 365 version so thanks for the advice. I checked out your god tier list and I have tried, currently have, or am waiting for most of them it seems. Though I am surlrised you liked the AT Iron Triangle so much. It was good, but not for me. Which is a good thing in the end because you can have all the AT CM2000Tis and I can have the Ucotech ES-P1s. Do we have a deal? LOL


----------



## WoodyLuvr

JAnonymous5150 said:


> CAX Red Dragon, but tweaked to have less warmth to be more clinical sounding. After discussing my preferences and musical tastes and all that jazz the Red Dragon was what he recommended and he said he thought he could tweak it to make it perfect for me.
> 
> Do you have a Cypherus model?


I am currently working with Herry @ Cypherus Audio (CAX); commissioning a special custom earbud project for me. Very excited to say the least. Will keep all posted once it starts to move along which will take some time though as he is extremely busy at the moment.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 11, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I went ahead and grabbed the 365 version so thanks for the advice. I checked out your god tier list and I have tried, currently have, or am waiting for most of them it seems. Though I am surlrised you liked the AT Iron Triangle so much. It was good, but not for me. Which is a good thing in the end because you can have all the AT CM2000Tis and I can have the Ucotech ES-P1s. Do we have a deal? LOL


That Earbud God-Tier List was not a personal list... but rather simply those god-tier models that were currently available back when I supported and updated the list. It is now defunct. So, personally I was not a huge fan of the *Audio-Technica ATH-CM2000Ti*... it was too bright for my listening tastes but nonetheless a very good earbud worthy of being listed as God-Tier... though I really do think it is a tad too expensive no matter how well built it may be. My personal flathead favorites are listed *here*.


----------



## syazwaned

WoodyLuvr said:


> That Earbud God-Tier List was not a personal list... but rather simply those god-tier models that were currently available back when I supported and updated the list. It is now defunct. So, I was not a huge fan of the *Audio-Technica ATH-CM2000Ti*... it was too bright for my listening tastes but nonetheless a very good earbud worthy of being listed as God-Tier... though I really do think it is a tad too expensive no matter how well built it may be. My personal flathead favorites are listed *here*.


Sir, is there any major difference between Yinman 600 ohms mmcx againts the long stem wooden one, the one listed in your personal favorite?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 11, 2022)

syazwaned said:


> Sir, is there any major difference between Yinman 600 ohms mmcx againts the long stem wooden one, the one listed in your personal favorite?


None, really that I can detect. *Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼* have been uncannily consistent with the 600Ω line across all versions, re-runs, and/or editions. Very surprising!  The mmcx version is no longer available unless you find NOS/NIB somewhere (doubtful, as I hunted around hard for them) or you buy second-hand from someone.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

WoodyLuvr said:


> I am currently working with Herry @ Cypherus Audio (CAX); commissioning a special custom earbud project for me. Very excited to say the least. Will keep all posted once it starts to move along which will take some time though as he is extremely busy at the moment.


Herry was nice enough to offer to make all the tweaks I wanted snd says he will rename the earbud "in my honor" lol! He's a nice guy for sure!

I also just ordered a Rider 1 from Riku based on his recommendation as to which of his buds he thought would fit my tastes best. I'm so stoked to get to own a genuine Rikubud like the ones I've heard so much about!


----------



## o0genesis0o

WoodyLuvr said:


> I am currently working with Herry @ Cypherus Audio (CAX); commissioning a special custom earbud project for me. Very excited to say the least. Will keep all posted once it starts to move along which will take some time though as he is extremely busy at the moment.



Custom just for you? Wow


----------



## nofarewell

WoodyLuvr said:


> I am currently working with Herry @ Cypherus Audio (CAX); commissioning a special custom earbud project for me. Very excited to say the least. Will keep all posted once it starts to move along which will take some time though as he is extremely busy at the moment.


Actually I was thinking about writing him to mod my otherwise perfect but driver-less MDR-E484s. We talked once, he was so nice and kind, so when I'll have more money, I plan to ask him for the honor


----------



## o0genesis0o

@Ronion My measurement of Fiio FF3 with balanced foam, using IEC711 coupler. I simply hold the ear buds in front of the artificial ear canal, avoiding a closed seal to mimic the leakiness of ear buds in real life.






Looks close enough to Fiio's graph, but all of my frequencies above 1k seems higher. 

I mean the quantity does not seem right but the overall shape looks kind of right. The slight hump around 125Hz might explain the bass punch (btw, I learned from a seminar of Dan Clark that if you want "punch", add a little hump around 125Hz). The 3k ear gain peak also seems right, given the harman-ish sound of FF3. Resonance peak align at 8k-ish, which is expected. Slight 10k and air region also seems right, given the detail retrieval of these ear buds. I don't think the air region is that high, though we know by now that IEC711 is not accurate beyond the resonance peak between 8k and 10k.


----------



## Ronion (Aug 11, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> @Ronion My measurement of Fiio FF3 with balanced foam, using IEC711 coupler. I simply hold the ear buds in front of the artificial ear canal, avoiding a closed seal to mimic the leakiness of ear buds in real life.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I bet using that coupling that with an ear from AE would get you some very useful results.  You wouldn’t have a good calibration, but you’d get something that resembles reality and in time you could make a fairly good guess at the calibration.  I could certainly help you with that if you had questions.

Adding punch with 100Hz is a very old trick in the recording industry.  Just like removing 250Hz removes mud (Harman cough).  If I see Harman, I know it sounds thin and bright with a sub bass boost.

Mine sound pretty dark no matter what foams above 10kHz and FiiO’s foamless graph is considerably lower than yours with foams.  My pinna gain is also much lower.  Yours is actually 5dB higher than FiiO’s foamless.  I’m fairly certain your buds don’t actually sound like that, and you wouldn’t want them to.  You can see however that your graph is far more sensible than most earbud makers show for their buds.  I’m betting that would work so well with an ear coupled to it.  You can see it’s not horrible now.  Most earbud manufacturers that post any graphs are much further off.


----------



## chinmie

So i had the TRN EMA for a couple of days now, have been pairing them with the KZ AZ09 pro as daily driver TWS, and so far i really liking them for what they do. i have to swap them left to right and wear them upside down (Sony Xperia Ear style), but they do fit great like that. I'm using them without any foams at the moment. I tested them with some rubber rings from my other earbuds, and it would increase the subbass response nicely like that, but the rubber rings that i have are a little loose on the EMA. maybe the VE Monk type rubber rings would fit better for my ears. 

Soundwise, they're pleasant. not too analytical or warm, but more on the neutral side with emphasis on the mids.. liking them for podcast/youtube.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> @Ronion My measurement of Fiio FF3 with balanced foam, using IEC711 coupler. I simply hold the ear buds in front of the artificial ear canal, avoiding a closed seal to mimic the leakiness of ear buds in real life.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To me, the FF3s sound much more balanced and full than the graphs would suggest. I have never read earbud graphs before so are there any rules of thumb I should be taking into account.


BTW, I am one of those people that thinks that graphs rarely tell the whole story for a headphone, IEM, and probably for earbuds as well. I have heard things that graph terribly sound great and vice versa, but they can be helpful for getting a general idea for how a certain product might sound. Is there a special rig for earbud measuring, or is it just based off an IEM rig?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

chinmie said:


> So i had the TRN EMA for a couple of days now, have been pairing them with the KZ AZ09 pro as daily driver TWS, and so far i really liking them for what they do. i have to swap them left to right and wear them upside down (Sony Xperia Ear style), but they do fit great like that. I'm using them without any foams at the moment. I tested them with some rubber rings from my other earbuds, and it would increase the subbass response nicely like that, but the rubber rings that i have are a little loose on the EMA. maybe the VE Monk type rubber rings would fit better for my ears.
> 
> Soundwise, they're pleasant. not too analytical or warm, but more on the neutral side with emphasis on the mids.. liking them for podcast/youtube.


I have a pair of the EMAs on the way. Can you give me/us a short rundown on how they sound?


----------



## chavez

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I have a pair of the EMAs on the way. Can you give me/us a short rundown on how they sound?


Analog. Like an old hifi system sometimes. That is how i would describe them. Good for vocal/acoustic stuff i would say.


----------



## madeyasay

Does anyone else have difficulties with keeping the FF3 well placed/fitted in their ears? They are always kind of loose so they can fall out pretty easily, which is a bit annoying but I could live with it. The biggest problem is that it means they don't seal very well and the sound isn't as "full" and I'm missing a lot of the (sub)bass. When I put them in and hold them, they sound great, but the second I let go of they move and sound a lot less impressive..


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> To me, the FF3s sound much more balanced and full than the graphs would suggest. I have never read earbud graphs before so are there any rules of thumb I should be taking into account.
> 
> 
> BTW, I am one of those people that thinks that graphs rarely tell the whole story for a headphone, IEM, and probably for earbuds as well. I have heard things that graph terribly sound great and vice versa, but they can be helpful for getting a general idea for how a certain product might sound. Is there a special rig for earbud measuring, or is it just based off an IEM rig?


The only thing you should know about earbud graphs is that they should ideally measure like any other headphone graph.  What that graph should be is somewhat debatable, but I’m sure it shouldn’t be Harman.  Others will have a different opinion that are worth what you paid for mine.

You are right about the FF3 being warm just as they measure in my rig.  There are definitely things that don’t show up on a FR graph.  However, it’s still a useful reference point and not to be ignored.  @WoodyLuvr has a nice guide for a more detailed lens on the subject.


----------



## Ronion

madeyasay said:


> Does anyone else have difficulties with keeping the FF3 well placed/fitted in their ears? They are always kind of loose so they can fall out pretty easily, which is a bit annoying but I could live with it. The biggest problem is that it means they don't seal very well and the sound isn't as "full" and I'm missing a lot of the (sub)bass. When I put them in and hold them, they sound great, but the second I let go of they move and sound a lot less impressive..


I’m perhaps fortunate that they are rock solid in my ears, but there have been a couple reports of them being less than stable for others.  Oddly, I always thought I had tricky ears to fit, but these do it for me.  I would suggest trying buds in a PK She’ll if you have not.  They seem like a safe bet.


----------



## madeyasay (Aug 11, 2022)

Ronion said:


> I’m perhaps fortunate that they are rock solid in my ears, but there have been a couple reports of them being less than stable for others.  Oddly, I always thought I had tricky ears to fit, but these do it for me.  I would suggest trying buds in a PK She’ll if you have not.  They seem like a safe bet.


Any specific suggestions you can think of? Preferably about the same price range. I'm not really familiar with the types and brands of shells and which earbuds use them.
Pretty bummed out they don't sit well because I really like them and after the "meh" experience with IEMs I thought I had found the perfect solution for me.


----------



## samandhi

madeyasay said:


> Any specific suggestions you can think of? Preferably about the same price range. I'm not really familiar with the types and brands of shells and which earbuds use them.
> Pretty bummed out they don't sit well because I really like them and after the "meh" experience with IEMs I thought I had found the perfect solution for me.


To which IEMs are you referring to, if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## madeyasay

samandhi said:


> To which IEMs are you referring to, if you don't mind me asking?


I tried Moondrop Aria and some Fiio pair (forgot the type). It wasn't about the sound though, but can't get used to the sealed/vaccuum feeling and hearing my feet stomp in my head while walking around with them.


----------



## samandhi

Also, keep in mind that; while they shouldn't fall out, earbuds are NOT tight up against your ear hole. All the earbuds I own usually sound like IEMs when pressed tight. Having said that, if they move around a lot (not just "feeling" like they aren't stable, but actually moving), then that is NOT a good fit. There isn't really any seal that they create per se', but they also should be stable. If you have a really deep and wide pocket for a concha, you might have a hard time getting good sound from them.


----------



## samandhi

madeyasay said:


> I tried Moondrop Aria and some Fiio pair (forgot the type). It wasn't about the sound though, but can't get used to the sealed/vaccuum feeling and hearing my feet stomp in my head while walking around with them.


Ahh, then as long as you can get a set that fit you well, you have come to the right head gear to alleviate that IMO...


----------



## madeyasay

samandhi said:


> Also, keep in mind that; while they shouldn't fall out, earbuds are NOT tight up against your ear hole. All the earbuds I own usually sound like IEMs when pressed tight. Having said that, if they move around a lot (not just "feeling" like they aren't stable, but actually moving), then that is NOT a good fit. There isn't really any seal that they create per se', but they also should be stable. If you have a really deep and wide pocket for a concha, you might have a hard time getting good sound from them.


Hmm, maybe that's really all there is to it. I think they mostly _feel_ like they're really loose. But I thought the sound I got when pressing them tight is what they should sound like all the time when you get a good fit. But doesn't it feel like you're missing out on the punchiness of drums and bass? That makes me want to press them all the time because I'm focusing on it.


----------



## o0genesis0o

madeyasay said:


> Hmm, maybe that's really all there is to it. I think they mostly _feel_ like they're really loose. But I thought the sound I got when pressing them tight is what they should sound like all the time when you get a good fit. But doesn't it feel like you're missing out on the punchiness of drums and bass? That makes me want to press them all the time because I'm focusing on it.



That’s how I feel the first day using it. After a while, I am used to the fact that FF3 does not fit tight, and it still has good bass without that punchiness when you push it against your ears.


----------



## Ronion

madeyasay said:


> Any specific suggestions you can think of? Preferably about the same price range. I'm not really familiar with the types and brands of shells and which earbuds use them.
> Pretty bummed out they don't sit well because I really like them and after the "meh" experience with IEMs I thought I had found the perfect solution for me.


I wish I knew of some… lol know the old PK1,2 and 3 were great, but the newer versions of them have gone down hill after a driver change.  Where is @WoodyLuvr ?  He is our resident expert and has a checklist to nudge you in the right direction.


----------



## samandhi (Aug 11, 2022)

madeyasay said:


> Hmm, maybe that's really all there is to it. I think they mostly _feel_ like they're really loose. But I thought the sound I got when pressing them tight is what they should sound like all the time when you get a good fit. But doesn't it feel like you're missing out on the punchiness of drums and bass? That makes me want to press them all the time because I'm focusing on it.


Then, I actually sounds like you are getting the right fit (probably). It will take a bit of time for your brain to get used to the different way they work/sound, but eventually you will hear that (if the set has it). I have a set that sounds like that when NOT pressed up tight, and when I DO press them up tight, they actually have too much bass and treble.

Bottom line is that none of them will fit tight (unless you have something like the ST10S, which are over-ear, and that is also for my ear fit). It is all about whether they actually stay in place or not. This is partially what gives earbuds their "magic" and air. Notice that when you press them tight, you lose that amazingly wide soundstage (provided the FF3 have a good staging).

If you want something very punchy, you will want a set that has a big mid-bass bump IMO.

 That..... 


o0genesis0o said:


> That’s how I feel the first day using it. After a while, I am used to the fact that FF3 does not fit tight, and it still has good bass without that punchiness when you push it against your ears.


Yep, that is actually the magic of earbuds to my ears, sounding more like speakers than head gear really IMHO.  There are some that have that punchiness even without having to do that. I have not heard the FF3 yet, so I can't comment on what they should be doing.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

madeyasay said:


> Does anyone else have difficulties with keeping the FF3 well placed/fitted in their ears? They are always kind of loose so they can fall out pretty easily, which is a bit annoying but I could live with it. The biggest problem is that it means they don't seal very well and the sound isn't as "full" and I'm missing a lot of the (sub)bass. When I put them in and hold them, they sound great, but the second I let go of they move and sound a lot less impressive..


I have heard several othet people mention this, but the FF3s are very stable in my ear and move very little regardless of what I'm doing. I guess I'm just lucky...


madeyasay said:


> Does anyone else have difficulties with keeping the FF3 well placed/fitted in their ears? They are always kind of loose so they can fall out pretty easily, which is a bit annoying but I could live with it. The biggest problem is that it means they don't seal very well and the sound isn't as "full" and I'm missing a lot of the (sub)bass. When I put them in and hold them, they sound great, but the second I let go of they move and sound a lot less impressive..


I have heard a few other people mention the FF3s moving a lot or not fitting securely, but I guess I'm just lucky because they settle into my ear very securely and hardly move at all even when jogging, doing drum stick exercises, going from sitting to laying back and vice versa, etc. Apparently, the FF3s like me as much as I like them. We have a special relationship lol!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

chavez said:


> Analog. Like an old hifi system sometimes. That is how i would describe them. Good for vocal/acoustic stuff i would say.


Thanks! Sounds like something I'd like to hear so I'll be eagerly awaiting they're arrival.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

madeyasay said:


> Any specific suggestions you can think of? Preferably about the same price range. I'm not really familiar with the types and brands of shells and which earbuds use them.
> Pretty bummed out they don't sit well because I really like them and after the "meh" experience with IEMs I thought I had found the perfect solution for me.


I know I'm not who you asked for suggestions, but if you're looking for pk kind of shell shapes the you could try the Yuin PK1, Yuin OK2, Shozy Cygnus, ShoonTH ESEP-01BLE, and Sunrise Audio Dragon 2 Limited Edition. I'm sure there are more pk or similar shell based options for you but all of these are relatively close to that $99 mark that the FF3 cost as my suggestions here range fr $89 to $138. Some of these are really well regarded too. I hope this helps or at least gives you options.


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I have heard several othet people mention this, but the FF3s are very stable in my ear and move very little regardless of what I'm doing. I guess I'm just lucky...
> 
> I have heard a few other people mention the FF3s moving a lot or not fitting securely, but I guess I'm just lucky because they settle into my ear very securely and hardly move at all even when jogging, doing drum stick exercises, going from sitting to laying back and vice versa, etc. Apparently, the FF3s like me as much as I like them. We have a special relationship lol!


You are like me, I sleep on my back and they are perfectly stable, hiking; stable, playing frisbee…. Yep, still stable.  I can do that with MX500, PK, and Lite shells.  I can’t do it with the SMABAT M0, M2s pro, or ST20 pro.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I have heard several othet people mention this, but the FF3s are very stable in my ear and move very little regardless of what I'm doing. I guess I'm just lucky...
> 
> I have heard a few other people mention the FF3s moving a lot or not fitting securely, but I guess I'm just lucky because they settle into my ear very securely and hardly move at all even when jogging, doing drum stick exercises, going from sitting to laying back and vice versa, etc. Apparently, the FF3s like me as much as I like them. We have a special relationship lol!



I have better relationship with FF3 now, after understanding that it can shift around a bit, but sound does not change much and it wouldn’t fall out of my ears.

Earbuds are still mostly useless on the street, though. I’m surprised how noisy streets really are when I dont have my IEM on.


----------



## emusic13

Bell Shaped buds should be easy to fit too. They sort of “lock” in.


----------



## Charlyro222

Family together


----------



## rkw

madeyasay said:


> Does anyone else have difficulties with keeping the FF3 well placed/fitted in their ears? They are always kind of loose so they can fall out pretty easily, which is a bit annoying but I could live with it. The biggest problem is that it means they don't seal very well and the sound isn't as "full" and I'm missing a lot of the (sub)bass. When I put them in and hold them, they sound great, but the second I let go of they move and sound a lot less impressive..


Try double foam (a second foam on top of the first). I need to do it with some of my earbuds for a secure fit.


----------



## hongky

madeyasay said:


> Does anyone else have difficulties with keeping the FF3 well placed/fitted in their ears? They are always kind of loose so they can fall out pretty easily, which is a bit annoying but I could live with it. The biggest problem is that it means they don't seal very well and the sound isn't as "full" and I'm missing a lot of the (sub)bass. When I put them in and hold them, they sound great, but the second I let go of they move and sound a lot less impressive..


Try to use o ring on it, it will give more friction to your ear


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> You are like me, I sleep on my back and they are perfectly stable, hiking; stable, playing frisbee…. Yep, still stable.  I can do that with MX500, PK, and Lite shells.  I can’t do it with the SMABAT M0, M2s pro, or ST20 pro.


So far, all of mine fit like this for me except the Maria II (which... duh they are almost the size of overear hehe), and the chaconne (again about the size of short swords).  But on the other hand, all of mine are not normal shaped except the DUNU Alpha 1 (which are MX500 like, though not exact). And the bell NiceHCK EB2S, which also fit very stable. I find the Smabat and Yincrow RW2000 and RW3000 actually fit and stay really well for my ears... Figures! . The Smabat ST10S actually fit me the best though, probably because they are overear, and seem smaller than others. I must have universal ears, now that I am thinking about it.


----------



## samandhi

hongky said:


> Try to use o ring on it, it will give more friction to your ear


Or, if you need those foams, try this:




Spoiler


----------



## chinmie

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I have a pair of the EMAs on the way. Can you give me/us a short rundown on how they sound?



as i wrote a bit in my post:


chinmie said:


> Soundwise, they're pleasant. not too analytical or warm, but more on the neutral side with emphasis on the mids.. liking them for podcast/youtube.



and to add a bit more, i might describe the sound as "middle of the road", can't go wrong with it, but not too special in specific aspects. 
also this impression is me using it without any foams,as using even really thin foams (though i like the added subbass volume) makes the treble too laid back for my taste..not veiled, the detail of the trebles are still there, but the volume of the treble would get pushed back. 

but i think for people who likes to listen with higher volume, using foams would be great as the treble would not be piercing. 

can't wait to hear your impression on the EMA when you have it, i hope you like it too


----------



## ttorbic

Charlyro222 said:


> Family together


That is really impressive! Between the Serratus, Tantalus, and Alpha, which one is your favourite and why? I only have the Serratus for now 😂

Also, could you say something about the value-to-performance about DIY earbuds compared to commercial ones? You have so many from both sides 😄


----------



## yaps66

Charlyro222 said:


> Family together


The Tio Lake Red seems like the odd one out (since it is sr 0002)!


----------



## Charlyro222

yaps66 said:


> The Tio Lake Red seems like the odd one out (since it is sr 0002)!


Is serial 2 on Tio Lake series that I also have n1 but is n1 on red series.
LOL


----------



## Charlyro222

ttorbic said:


> That is really impressive! Between the Serratus, Tantalus, and Alpha, which one is your favourite and why? I only have the Serratus for now 😂
> 
> Also, could you say something about the value-to-performance about DIY earbuds compared to commercial ones? You have so many from both sides 😄


Best on all series is Alpha, best tunning and soundstage, coherency and layering.

I prefer DIY for taking direct contact with maker and you can get the tunning you most like, but I also have to tell that for me VE is not as all other Brands, they really take care of his cutomers and has the best from 2 worlds.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Aug 11, 2022)

Hi, I want to ask if there has been any review of VE master earbuds? I’m planning to get the megatron, as readers of my reviews keep complaining that my sources are not powerful enough to “scale” IEM, and VE has a bundle with these master buds.

Would it be worth it in anyway if I already have FF3? Otherwise, I would just get the megatron by itself and spend money on earbud diy components.


----------



## baskingshark

o0genesis0o said:


> Hi, I want to ask if there has been any review of VE master earbuds? I’m planning to get the megatron, as readers of my reviews keep complaining that my sources are not powerful enough to “scale” IEM, and VE has a bundle with these master buds.
> 
> Would it be worth it in anyway if I already have FF3? Otherwise, I would just get the megatron by itself and spend money on earbud diy components.



Just my 2 cents, I think as a reviewer, you might want to invest in a good desktop source and call it a day. Think of it as future proofing your hobby (and for the reviews). Cause some gear such as planars and low sensitivity/high impedance do need amplification to sound optimal. So getting a good source is a one-time investment that can provide a long runway for your hobby and reviews.

Megatron is not too versatile in that it doesn't fair well with sensitive IEMs. There are some desktop gear such as the Schiit Asgard 3 and some Toppings that have gain switches and low output impedance, and they allow one to pair low impedance/high sensitivity IEMs all the way to full sized power hungry cans without issues. Those might be an all-in-one option to cover most audio gear out there.


----------



## samandhi (Aug 11, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Hi, I want to ask if there has been any review of VE master earbuds? I’m planning to get the megatron, as readers of my reviews keep complaining that my sources are not powerful enough to “scale” IEM, and VE has a bundle with these master buds.
> 
> Would it be worth it in anyway if I already have FF3? Otherwise, I would just get the megatron by itself and spend money on earbud diy components.


What are you using now that people say isn't powerful enough. The megatron isn't very powerful either (660mW max) for scaling purposes (not saying it isn't wonderful or anything like that, just not a powerhouse amp).

If you feel like you just HAVE to have more power, you could get a more powerful one (desktop) for a bit more money. Or, you could get a portable mid tier DAP. For instance Hiby, FiiO, iBasso, etc. I know the DX170 has 1.2W available output power on android 11 with almost 0 output impedance. (something like $400). But there are also other options.

On the other hand, if you were planning on getting anyhow, then do so, and forget what I wrote...


----------



## o0genesis0o

baskingshark said:


> Just my 2 cents, I think as a reviewer, you might want to invest in a good desktop source and call it a day. Think of it as future proofing your hobby (and for the reviews). Cause some gear such as planars and low sensitivity/high impedance do need amplification to sound optimal. So getting a good source is a one-time investment that can provide a long runway for your hobby and reviews.
> 
> Megatron is not too versatile in that it doesn't fair well with sensitive IEMs. There are some desktop gear such as the Schiit Asgard 3 and some Toppings that have gain switches and low output impedance, and they allow one to pair low impedance/high sensitivity IEMs all the way to full sized power hungry cans without issues. Those might be an all-in-one option to cover most audio gear out there.



Didn’t know I would find you here   

Though you are not the only one asking me to have more powerful sources. Perhaps I should really get a desktop stack or at least all in one DAC/AMP. Leaning towards Fiio stuffs at the moment as I can buy from my local hifi store.


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> What are you using now that people say isn't powerful enough



All of my stuffs use nearly the same dual ESS dac chips without amp. Usually 80mw single ended, 240mw balanced (KA3).


----------



## samandhi

I actually use the DX300 with differing power output, and signatures by changing amp cards. The most powerful being 8Vrms, 2W, and over 2 amps of current.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> All of my stuffs use nearly the same dual ESS dac chips without amp. Usually 80mw single ended, 240mw balanced (KA3).


Oic. Yeah, you actually might be missing out on some good gear as that might not properly excite all drivers, even though you might get some volume otherwise. So, at least for YOUR personal benefit alone I would suggest a DAC/amp, or DAP.


----------



## samandhi

As a matter of fact, our very own @RikudouGoku did a lot of his reviews on the DX160 (DX170 is basically same thing, renewed and issues fixed).


----------



## Ronion (Aug 12, 2022)

@o0genesis0o, get an ancient FiiO e12MB or an A5.  You should be able to find them used for cheap.  I’ll sell you mine for $1,200/ea.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> @o0genesis0o, get an anci FiiO e12MB or an A5.  You should be able to find them used for cheap.  I’ll sell you mine for $1,200/ea.


Nuh uh, you wouldn't part with that.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Nuh uh, you wouldn't part with that.


Absolutely true.  I feel lucky to have it.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Should have saved up and bought Fiio M11. Why do I keep buying cheaper stuffs and then still have to go for expensive stuffs in the end   .

I’m somewhat unconvinced about the extra power to drive IEMs though. Will go to my local hifi store and plug my stubborn IEMs into their desktop amp to see how it sounds.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Absolutely true.  I feel lucky to have it.


You probably should, there probably aren't a ton of them left out there. Everyone got that nasty "upgraditis" bug and sold them off most likely... hehe


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Should have saved up and bought Fiio M11. Why do I keep buying cheaper stuffs and then still have to go for expensive stuffs in the end   .
> 
> I’m somewhat unconvinced about the extra power to drive IEMs though. Will go to my local hifi store and plug my stubborn IEMs into their desktop amp to see how it sounds.


Just my opionion, but I would stay away from the M11. It is very "digital" sounding, and also tizzy in the top end. If you are wanting something in that line, the M11 Pro is much better IMHO (FiiO must have listened to feedback with that one)....


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> Just my opionion, but I would stay away from the M11. It is very "digital" sounding, and also tizzy in the top end. If you are wanting something in that line, the M11 Pro is much better IMHO (FiiO must have listened to feedback with that one)....


There are different versions of that brick?? I have no idea. But I know that the staffs at my local hifi store use that brick to test IEM.


----------



## boromcom

samandhi said:


> Just my opionion, but I would stay away from the M11. It is very "digital" sounding, and also tizzy in the top end. If you are wanting something in that line, the M11 Pro is much better IMHO (FiiO must have listened to feedback with that one)....


i just sold m11 to get M6 ultra instead but this is quite good combination for earbuds


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> There are different versions of that brick?? I have no idea. But I know that the staffs at my local hifi store use that brick to test IEM.


Yes, they also have the M11 Plus Ltd...


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> There are different versions of that brick?? I have no idea. But I know that the staffs at my local hifi store use that brick to test IEM.


Also, keep in mind that the M11 Pro actually has less power output than the Megatron you quoted earlier (550mW from balanced). And it is also on android 7 (unless they have updated it since)....


----------



## boromcom

o0genesis0o said:


> There are different versions of that brick?? I have no idea. But I know that the staffs at my local hifi store use that brick to test IEM.


Fiio M11 plus come with ESS chip. But old M11 pro come with AKM chip.


----------



## Ronion

No affiliation, but you can find them in the wild still.  Don’t know if the listing is still live.

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/fiio-mont-blanc-e12.514/

As far as I know, there’s no modern equivalent.

The A5 may actually be better for more portable situations.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> No affiliation, but you can find them in the wild still.  Don’t know if the listing is still live.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/fiio-mont-blanc-e12.514/
> 
> ...


Nope. closed... 


> Closed: Fiio MONT BLANC E12


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Nope. closed...


Figures.  That is too good of a deal.  Some people will like the A5 better and it does sound better with brighter transducers.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> All of my stuffs use nearly the same dual ESS dac chips without amp. Usually 80mw single ended, 240mw balanced (KA3).


What's your budget like and how much power are you looking for?


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Figures.  That is too good of a deal.  Some people will like the A5 better and it does sound better with brighter transducers.


Over the years FiiO has made some hits and misses, but I think there have probably been a lot more hits than misses IMO...

I hate to sound like a fanboy, but I have moved over to iBasso for my portable gear because of the value/price ratio. For instance (and I don't have this one), the DX320 is their flagship DAP ($1600), and their closest competition is A&K SP2000 ($3.5K), and Cayin N8II ($7.4K), and the Shannling M9 ($2.7K) for sound quality and features both. IMO it works this way all the way (at least) to the mid-tier category.

BUT..... I HAVE been eyeballing the Shannling M0 (what a cute lil' feller') for the ultra portability. It doesn't have a ton of power, but it has all the hi-end features for something so cheap ($109) and so small. It would drive most of my buds just find IMO. Besides, my wife needs something that she can steal from me, and this would distract her from taking my really good stuff... LOL


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> What's your budget like and how much power are you looking for?



I just look for something way above my current power outputs. Tbh, I am not quite convinced that more power is needed for most IEMs, but I can’t say for sure unless I check myself, as my E5000 indeed sounds different (technical wise) moving from apple dongle to portable amp. Still, I need something to drive 300 ohms earbuds that I will build in the future.

Budget wise, I am never excited about buying new source   I did want to buy Fiio DAP bricks though.


----------



## baskingshark (Aug 12, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> I just look for something way above my current power outputs. Tbh, I am not quite convinced that more power is needed for most IEMs, but I can’t say for sure unless I check myself, as my E5000 indeed sounds different (technical wise) moving from apple dongle to portable amp. Still, I need something to drive 300 ohms earbuds that I will build in the future.
> 
> Budget wise, I am never excited about buying new source   I did want to buy Fiio DAP bricks though.



Most IEMs do not really require much power, they are generally of low impedance/high sensitivity. But you have some outliers, eg planars like the Tin P1, and the Final E5000 (low sensitivity) that definitely scale with power. The E5000 really sounds boomy and bloated and one-noted in the bass from a weak source.

Multi BA IEMs generally do not benefit from power, but single DDs to some extent will scale slightly with power - tighter bass, better soundstage and improved dynamics. When you go higher and higher up the ladder, perhaps people will chase these last few % sonic improvements, as the source ends up being the bottle-neck in the chain.

Amplification is not about volume and just jacking up the volume to the max with a planar on a weak apple dongle. Driving something to get sound and driving something well are two different stories. Sometimes you cannot unhear what you have heard with good amplification on a power hungry device haha, so the rabbithole beckons.


Earbuds and headphones on the other hand, generally come with higher impedance than IEMs, so yeah getting an amp for them is a good idea in the long run.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> I just look for something way above my current power outputs. Tbh, I am not quite convinced that more power is needed for most IEMs, but I can’t say for sure unless I check myself, as my E5000 indeed sounds different (technical wise) moving from apple dongle to portable amp. Still, I need something to drive 300 ohms earbuds that I will build in the future.
> 
> Budget wise, I am never excited about buying new source   I did want to buy Fiio DAP bricks though.


Once again, just my opinion, but if you want something to drive those 300 ohm buds, you CAN drive them from 600mW and up, but this is where the numbers don't seem to always line up. I would offer that you would want something with at least 2W to drive them properly (best scaled sound). But this is not proven, and even suggests that you would "overdrive" them if you do the math. 

But, having the 600 ohms Yinmans, I use my 2W amp to drive them, and there is really no comparison to my 1.2W and 600mW amps. They both leave something to be desired in comparison (don't get me wrong, if I had only the 600mW amp I would be happy, but scaling continues throughout the increased power output to combine for better overall sound IMO).


----------



## samandhi (Aug 12, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> Most IEMs do not really require much power, they are generally of low impedance/high sensitivity. But you have some outliers, eg planars like the Tin P1, and the Final E5000 (low sensitivity) that definitely scale with power. The E5000 really sounds boomy and bloated and one-noted in the bass from a weak source.
> 
> Multi BA IEMs generally do not benefit from power, but single DDs to some extent will scale slightly with power - tighter bass, better soundstage and improved dynamics. When you go higher and higher up the ladder, perhaps people will chase these last few % sonic improvements, as the source ends up being the bottle-neck in the chain.
> 
> ...


This exactly! I couldn't have worded it better myself. 

Edit: And yes I can vouch for those P1s. They are really hard to drive (still)...


----------



## syazwaned

WoodyLuvr said:


> None, really that I can detect. *Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼* have been uncannily consistent with the 600Ω line across all versions, re-runs, and/or editions. Very surprising!  The mmcx version is no longer available unless you find NOS/NIB somewhere (doubtful, as I hunted around hard for them) or you buy second-hand from someone.


thanks. Appreciate it!


----------



## syazwaned

baskingshark said:


> Most IEMs do not really require much power, they are generally of low impedance/high sensitivity. But you have some outliers, eg planars like the Tin P1, and the Final E5000 (low sensitivity) that definitely scale with power. The E5000 really sounds boomy and bloated and one-noted in the bass from a weak source.
> 
> Multi BA IEMs generally do not benefit from power, but single DDs to some extent will scale slightly with power - tighter bass, better soundstage and improved dynamics. When you go higher and higher up the ladder, perhaps people will chase these last few % sonic improvements, as the source ends up being the bottle-neck in the chain.
> 
> ...


this is true. my e3k sounds limps on Apogee Groove. while my hd600 can sounds good on the same device. Only my recent acquisition Questyle m15 can drive e3k to dynamically enough. m15 also makes me confident to acquire Yinman 600 ohms


----------



## JAnonymous5150

chinmie said:


> as i wrote a bit in my post:
> 
> 
> and to add a bit more, i might describe the sound as "middle of the road", can't go wrong with it, but not too special in specific aspects.
> ...


As soon as they show up and I get a good session or two with them, I will definitely post my impressions. Thanks for the added detail on yours. I'll be paying close attention to the treble versus foams advantages and disadvantages as I listen and experiment. Cheers!


----------



## madeyasay

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I know I'm not who you asked for suggestions, but if you're looking for pk kind of shell shapes the you could try the Yuin PK1, Yuin OK2, Shozy Cygnus, ShoonTH ESEP-01BLE, and Sunrise Audio Dragon 2 Limited Edition. I'm sure there are more pk or similar shell based options for you but all of these are relatively close to that $99 mark that the FF3 cost as my suggestions here range fr $89 to $138. Some of these are really well regarded too. I hope this helps or at least gives you options.


Thank a lot, I'll start checking these out! I welcome all suggestions from anyone 



rkw said:


> Try double foam (a second foam on top of the first). I need to do it with some of my earbuds for a secure fit.


Hmm, for some reason I had the impression they were too big for my ears for them to fit properly. But now that you mentioned this I compared them to my old Sennheisers and they're actually slightly smaller so that makes sense. I'll try double foam and silicone rings like @hongky mentioned if I can find some.


----------



## o0genesis0o

syazwaned said:


> this is true. my e3k sounds limps on Apogee Groove. while my hd600 can sounds good on the same device. Only my recent acquisition Questyle m15 can drive e3k to dynamically enough. m15 also makes me confident to acquire Yinman 600 ohms



(Unrelated topic, sorry everyone)

E3000’s transient response behavior can be improved by removing the acoustic filter at the back (behind the metal dust net). Yes, the midbass would be a couple db louder, but it can be driven with authority from a normal dongle like KA3. You can expect similar resolution with the E5000. If you can find a way to open the front vent (hidden under the nozzle), you will be able to reduce the midbass a bit as well.


----------



## weexisttocease

Next week I will receive the Pislo PXVV. No idea what to expect but hopefully they sound great.


----------



## syazwaned

o0genesis0o said:


> (Unrelated topic, sorry everyone)
> 
> E3000’s transient response behavior can be improved by removing the acoustic filter at the back (behind the metal dust net). Yes, the midbass would be a couple db louder, but it can be driven with authority from a normal dongle like KA3. You can expect similar resolution with the E5000. If you can find a way to open the front vent (hidden under the nozzle), you will be able to reduce the midbass a bit as well.


thanks Interesting, is there any image or video that I can refer too? Sorry I have a clumsy hands 😅


----------



## o0genesis0o

syazwaned said:


> thanks Interesting, is there any image or video that I can refer too? Sorry I have a clumsy hands 😅



You can just use a pair of tweezers to twist the metal mesh. It would fall off, but there would be still enough glue to attach it back. After removing the mesh, you will see a fabric filter covering a back vent. Remove it, and then close the metal mesh to prevent dust from entering. If you don’t like the sound, you can put everything back.


----------



## mt877

o0genesis0o said:


> I just look for something way above my current power outputs. Tbh, I am not quite convinced that more power is needed for most IEMs, but I can’t say for sure unless I check myself, as my E5000 indeed sounds different (technical wise) moving from apple dongle to portable amp. Still, I need something to drive 300 ohms earbuds that I will build in the future.
> 
> Budget wise, I am never excited about buying new source   I did want to buy Fiio DAP bricks though.



Going a bit off topic, but hey it's to drive some fine buds... 

I picked up one of these amps... A few others in this thread also have this amp. I think you can drive pretty much everything you have.

Kaei Tap-1s - Portable desktop full balanced headphone tube amp + linear power supply.












Recommended headphone impedance: 12-600Ω

Maximum Output Power (L+R):

Battery Mode (Portable Mode):

Balanced: 
3000mw (16Ω) 
2100mw (32Ω)   
1100mw (100Ω) 
450mw (300Ω)   

Single-Ended: 
1200mw (16Ω) 
700mw (32Ω) 
440mw (100Ω) 
200mw (300Ω) 

Desktop Mode (Linear power supply): 

Balanced : 
4900mw (16Ω) 
3200mw (32Ω) 
2000mw (100Ω)  
990mw (300Ω)  

Single-Ended : 
1980mw (16Ω) 
1400mw (32Ω) 
900mw (100Ω) 
480mw (300Ω)


----------



## silverszi (Aug 12, 2022)

ok so you know how i was going off about my eq
its not the eq
it's definitely the driver
there's a hiss on the left but not the right channel, ive checked with both ears
should i return the lbbs or just try to fix it
because im also p sure the left driver is damaged


----------



## JAnonymous5150

silverszi said:


> ok so you know how i was going off about my eq
> its not the eq
> it's definitely the driver
> there's a hiss on the left but not the right channel, ive checked with both ears
> ...


I think you answered your own question. If you think the driver itself is damaged that's definitely something worth sending the buds back over. It would be different if the hiss was just a grounding issue or something similar that could be fixed with 2 minutes and a soldering iron, but you can't fix damage to the driver.

I would probably send it back over either problem myself because I'm one of those crazy people who thinks products should be 100% functional out of the box. When I buy something that's more than a few bucks and it has obvious manufacturing flaws, I return or exchange it to get a properly made version. I know it sucks to go through the hassle, but that's the only way to hold manufacturers and retailers accountable for making/selling crappy products.


----------



## samandhi

silverszi said:


> ok so you know how i was going off about my eq
> its not the eq
> it's definitely the driver
> there's a hiss on the left but not the right channel, ive checked with both ears
> ...





JAnonymous5150 said:


> I think you answered your own question. If you think the driver itself is damaged that's definitely something worth sending the buds back over. It would be different if the hiss was just a grounding issue or something similar that could be fixed with 2 minutes and a soldering iron, but you can't fix damage to the driver.
> 
> I would probably send it back over either problem myself because I'm one of those crazy people who thinks products should be 100% functional out of the box. When I buy something that's more than a few bucks and it has obvious manufacturing flaws, I return or exchange it to get a properly made version. I know it sucks to go through the hassle, but that's the only way to hold manufacturers and retailers accountable for making/selling crappy products.


Very well said! And I totally agree! These companies need to be held accountable (not just for the good things, but also the bad things).


----------



## ValSuki

mt877 said:


> Going a bit off topic, but hey it's to drive some fine buds...
> 
> I picked up one of these amps... A few others in this thread also have this amp. I think you can drive pretty much everything you have.
> 
> ...


Oh? This has peaked my curiosity now! I may pick one up myself actually if this is something to consider.

Ive been wanting a nice bud source for a while now... this could be one!


----------



## silverszi (Aug 12, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I think you answered your own question. If you think the driver itself is damaged that's definitely something worth sending the buds back over. It would be different if the hiss was just a grounding issue or something similar that could be fixed with 2 minutes and a soldering iron, but you can't fix damage to the driver.
> 
> I would probably send it back over either problem myself because I'm one of those crazy people who thinks products should be 100% functional out of the box. When I buy something that's more than a few bucks and it has obvious manufacturing flaws, I return or exchange it to get a properly made version. I know it sucks to go through the hassle, but that's the only way to hold manufacturers and retailers accountable for making/selling crappy products.


the problem is it's just the hiss and i dont have a soldering iron
they worked much better day one too so ill see if i can get a replacement.
or is there something better in that price range now that i think about it because without eq it was incredibly harsh
but then again literally everything i have listened to sounds harsh once it sits in my ear, speakers dont though, do my ears have a 3khz resonance somehow lol.


----------



## samandhi

silverszi said:


> the problem is it's just the hiss and i dont have a soldering iron
> they worked much better day one too so ill see if i can get a replacement.
> or is there something better in that price range now that i think about it because without eq it was incredibly harsh
> but then again literally everything i have listened to sounds harsh once it sits in my ear, speakers dont though, do my ears have a 3khz resonance somehow lol.


I am also very sensitive to the region of 2-4kHz. The problem is that very many Chifi buds are tuned this way, but not all. If you want to find out where you are sensitive, and where you lack hearing combined with where the spikes and dips in your buds might be, you might want to check this out. I would just go through the whole spectrum, and this will give you an idea of the tuning of the buds as well as your own ears. 

All of the buds I own have a boosted pina gain, though some are much worse than others for me. The only set I own (thus far), that do NOT have this is the Yinman 600. Now, that isn't to say that I can't live with the others, but they cna be fatiguing (even after getting used to it).


----------



## silverszi (Aug 12, 2022)

samandhi said:


> I am also very sensitive to the region of 2-4kHz. The problem is that very many Chifi buds are tuned this way, but not all. If you want to find out where you are sensitive, and where you lack hearing combined with where the spikes and dips in your buds might be, you might want to check this out. I would just go through the whole spectrum, and this will give you an idea of the tuning of the buds as well as your own ears.
> 
> All of the buds I own have a boosted pina gain, though some are much worse than others for me. The only set I own (thus far), that do NOT have this is the Yinman 600. Now, that isn't to say that I can't live with the others, but they cna be fatiguing (even after getting used to it).


i do have actual sensory problems so picking something perfect/ good enough is basically impossible
playing music that peaks at 60dB measured on my mic is "too loud"
also tonegenerator link
already use it daily


----------



## samandhi

silverszi said:


> i do have actual sensory problems so picking something perfect/ good enough is basically impossible
> playing music that peaks at 60dB measured on my mic is "too loud"
> also tonegenerator link
> already use it daily


Yeah, I rarely go above 80dB myself, though once in a great while (and for a very short period), I will crank up the volume for a good "toe tapper"...  And the way that most of these buds are tuned, the Munsun curve really starts to ramp up as you give it more volume (for me). 

Oh, good! That has been an invaluable tool for me. Glad you already are aware of it.


----------



## silverszi

samandhi said:


> Yeah, I rarely go above 80dB myself, though once in a great while (and for a very short period), I will crank up the volume for a good "toe tapper"...  And the way that most of these buds are tuned, the Munsun curve really starts to ramp up as you give it more volume (for me).
> 
> Oh, good! That has been an invaluable tool for me. Glad you already are aware of it.


is there a known list of buds without pinna gain
i tried searching for "without pinna gain" in the thread but i got one result and i dont even think the words were together, I could just correct harder but im making 15dB cuts already and im scared that if i get another pair of lbbs theyll start imbalancing again


----------



## samandhi

silverszi said:


> is there a known list of buds without pinna gain
> i tried searching for "without pinna gain" in the thread but i got one result and i dont even think the words were together, I could just correct harder but im making 15dB cuts already and im scared that if i get another pair of lbbs theyll start imbalancing again


As far as I know there is no such (written) list. Though @WoodyLuvr could tell you all the ones that aren't tuned that way because he has listened to pretty much all the buds there is to listen to since 1982 (IIRC), except maybe a few DIYs... hehe I also believe he is sensitive to this area, so he would be a big help to you, I think. 

As for me, like I said earlier, the Yinmans are the only ones that aren't that I have ever heard. Having said that, they actually might be, but because they are so warm, one may not notice it as much, because they still exhibit the big staging that some of the others do (and that region not only gives the perception of clarity, but also helps with staging and separation in buds).


----------



## WoodyLuvr

silverszi said:


> is there a known list of buds without pinna gain
> i tried searching for "without pinna gain" in the thread but i got one result and i dont even think the words were together, I could just correct harder but im making 15dB cuts already and im scared that if i get another pair of lbbs theyll start imbalancing again


Currently available the following flatheads immediately come to mind for being warm with little to no pinna gain:

Faaeal Iris Ancestor; 32Ω
K's 凯 K300 Samsara (Reincarnation) 轮回; 300Ω
Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600 LE; 600Ω
Shozy 大黑 Big Black (BK) Stardust; 16Ω
Venture Electronics 微翼音频 (VE) Zen 2.0 Standard Edition; 320Ω
Venture Electronics 微翼音频 (VE) Zen LL; 150Ω
WillSound MK2; 32Ω


----------



## samandhi

silverszi said:


> is there a known list of buds without pinna gain
> i tried searching for "without pinna gain" in the thread but i got one result and i dont even think the words were together, I could just correct harder but im making 15dB cuts already and im scared that if i get another pair of lbbs theyll start imbalancing again





WoodyLuvr said:


> Currently available the following flatheads immediately come to mind for being warm with little to no pinna gain:
> 
> Faaeal Iris Ancestor; 32Ω
> K's 凯 K300 Samsara (Reincarnation) 轮回; 300Ω
> ...


  Told ya' he would know... LOL


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Ronion said:


> I would suggest trying buds in a PK She’ll if you have not.  They seem like a safe bet.





madeyasay said:


> Any specific suggestions you can think of? Preferably about the same price range. I'm not really familiar with the types and brands of shells and which earbuds use them.





Ronion said:


> I wish I knew of some… lol know the old PK1,2 and 3 were great, but the newer versions of them have gone down hill after a driver change.  Where is @WoodyLuvr ?  He is our resident expert and has a checklist to nudge you in the right direction.


*Shozy 大黑 Big Black (BK) Stardust; 16Ω

'The Checklist' For Flathead Earbud Recommendation Requests*


----------



## silverszi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Currently available the following flatheads immediately come to mind for being warm with little to no pinna gain:
> 
> Faaeal Iris Ancestor; 32Ω
> K's 凯 K300 Samsara (Reincarnation) 轮回; 300Ω
> ...


Can't find any listings for the willsound mk2 sadly, faeel iris screams "i will break this in seconds" and shozy big black is a little out of my current budget, especially considering I havent sold my increasing list of _unlistenable equipment _and I do not have the equipment to run high impedance
unless there's any highly eqable models that also do well
i assume lbbs is one of them but i dont want to risk them degrading again.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

silverszi said:


> Can't find any listings for the willsound mk2 sadly, faeel iris screams "i will break this in seconds" and shozy big black is a little out of my current budget, especially considering I havent sold my increasing list of _unlistenable equipment _and I do not have the equipment to run high impedance
> unless there's any highly eqable models that also do well
> i assume lbbs is one of them but i dont want to risk them degrading again.


I own 2 versions of the Iris (2.0 and Commemerative Edition) and they're pretty well built MX500 type buds. I fall asleep with them in, do work/chores with them in, etc and mine are doing just fine. There are better built earbuds out there, but the Iris models that I own aren't poorly made or fragile.


----------



## silverszi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I own 2 versions of the Iris (2.0 and Commemerative Edition) and they're pretty well built MX500 type buds. I fall asleep with them in, do work/chores with them in, etc and mine are doing just fine. There are better built earbuds out there, but the Iris models that I own aren't poorly made or fragile.


I mean
$5 is $5 i guess


----------



## JAnonymous5150

silverszi said:


> I mean
> $5 is $5 i guess


Haha I couldn't have said it better myself! Honestly though, the FAAEAL buds that I own are pretty well made when compared to other buds I have or have tried in the same price range.


----------



## silverszi

silverszi said:


> I havent sold my increasing list of _unlistenable equipment _


I need to put up my grados for listing


----------



## JAnonymous5150

silverszi said:


> I need to put up my grados for listing


If you don't mind my asking, what "unlistenable equipment" are you looking to get rid of?


----------



## silverszi (Aug 12, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> If you don't mind my asking, what "unlistenable equipment" are you looking to get rid of?


grados
it's just the grados

i might get rid of my ear violators deluxe (ety) too


----------



## Kamen555

Don't know if anyone's tried this. I found that I can get great over ear fit for my k's llbs using d Final Audio hooks from my e3k/e2k sets. D fit is good enough that they don't get dislodged even when i sleep with them. D ones that come with d k's don't work well for my ears.


----------



## samandhi

Kamen555 said:


> Don't know if anyone's tried this. I found that I can get great over ear fit for my k's llbs using d Final Audio hooks from my e3k/e2k sets. D fit is good enough that they don't get dislodged even when i sleep with them. D ones that come with d k's don't work well for my ears.


I have a set like that, that came with some other buds I have (can't remember off the top of my head) but haven't really had cause to use them. The ST10S is the only one (to me) that makes sense to be and fit like a native over ear type of wear. Some of the others I have tried wearing over ear, but the sound quality is much worse than cable down for those IMO.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

silverszi said:


> grados
> it's just the grados
> 
> i might get rid of my ear violators deluxe (ety) too


I don't know what the market for Grados is like these days though they seem to be reasonably popular, but those Etys will disappear fast if you decide to sell them. Etymotic in general and the ER2 specifically are definitely popular right now.


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Why does it change S-e-n-f-e-r to **** in my post?


Because that company is verboten on head-fi. They probably violated a member of the trade rule or something.


----------



## baskingshark

mt877 said:


> Because that company is verboten on head-fi. They probably violated a member of the trade rule or something.



There are some CHIFI brands that are banned for discussion on headfi, and here's the reasons why: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1978#post-14135342

Post was courtesy of Master Slater.


----------



## mt877

madeyasay said:


> Does anyone else have difficulties with keeping the FF3 well placed/fitted in their ears? They are always kind of loose so they can fall out pretty easily, which is a bit annoying but I could live with it. The biggest problem is that it means they don't seal very well and the sound isn't as "full" and I'm missing a lot of the (sub)bass. When I put them in and hold them, they sound great, but the second I let go of they move and sound a lot less impressive..


It's too bad you're having a marginal fit, because as you already know the FF3 sound fantastic. I usually don't have any fit issues with either buds or IEMs. On occasion I find that if the cable from the Y splitter up to a bud is twisted or that the cable naturally rests with a bud facing the wrong direction then there is a tendency for a bud to not sit properly in the concha and work itself loose from the force of the cable twist. You may not be having that problem, but wanted to mention it just in case.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> Because that company is verboten on head-fi. They probably violated a member of the trade rule or something.


I haven't heard/seen someone use the word verboten in years!


----------



## mt877

rkw said:


> Try double foam (a second foam on top of the first). I need to do it with some of my earbuds for a secure fit.


Knowing that foams affect the sound, wouldn't double foams increase the bass / make the highs sound really rolled off?


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I haven't heard/seen someone use the word verboten in years!


That's because it is forbidden... (see what I  did there? 😄)


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I haven't heard/seen someone use the word verboten in years!


It's ingrained into me since I work for a German company... no I don't speak German, well I did have to learn some basic German many years ago when I went to Germany for some technical training.


----------



## baskingshark

mt877 said:


> Knowing that foams affect the sound, wouldn't double foams increase the bass / make the highs sound really rolled off?



Yeah it does, so foams are akin to eartips/earpads in changing the sound signature of a earbud.


----------



## Kamen555

samandhi said:


> I have a set like that, that came with some other buds I have (can't remember off the top of my head) but haven't really had cause to use them. The ST10S is the only one (to me) that makes sense to be and fit like a native over ear type of wear. Some of the others I have tried wearing over ear, but the sound quality is much worse than cable down for those IMO.


I find I generally have problems with metal buds. The heft don't keep them stable in my left ear (they stay put in my right). 

This Final Audio hook use for over ear wearing of d llbs seems to not degrade d audio quality, to my ears at least. It kind of presses the bud against my ear hole (canal? cavity?) which is good I think.


----------



## samandhi (Aug 12, 2022)

Kamen555 said:


> I find I generally have problems with metal buds. The heft don't keep them stable in my left ear (they stay put in my right).
> 
> This Final Audio hook use for over ear wearing of d llbs seems to not degrade d audio quality, to my ears at least. It kind of presses the bud against my ear hole (canal? cavity?) which is good I think.


Fantastic that they work well for you! Did you say that is a set that you can buy separately, or do you have to buy some buds or IEMs to get them?


----------



## Ronion

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Shozy 大黑 Big Black (BK) Stardust; 16Ω
> 
> 'The Checklist' For Flathead Earbud Recommendation Requests*


This is what I’m talking about.  Took him 2.3 seconds.


----------



## yaps66

samandhi said:


> Some of the others I have tried wearing over ear, but the sound quality is much worse than cable down


The RW-2000 comes to mind for me where it sounds worse over the ear!


----------



## yaps66

samandhi said:


> That's because it is forbidden... (see what I  did there? 😄)


----------



## Kamen555

samandhi said:


> Fantastic that they work well for you! Did you say that is a set that you can buy separately, or do you have to buy some buds or IEMs to get them?


If u buy Final Audio E3000/E2000 iem, they come with a set of hooks to wear them over ear. That's what I used, since I don't wear them over ear.


----------



## samandhi

yaps66 said:


> The RW-2000 comes to mind for me where it sounds worse over the ear!


Yes, that is a perfect example.


yaps66 said:


>


😆


----------



## samandhi

Kamen555 said:


> If u buy Final Audio E3000/E2000 iem, they come with a set of hooks to wear them over ear. That's what I used, since I don't wear them over ear.


Yeah, as mentioned earlier i also got some as "accessories", but for the life of me I don't remember which set. Hehe


----------



## o0genesis0o

mt877 said:


> Going a bit off topic, but hey it's to drive some fine buds...
> 
> I picked up one of these amps... A few others in this thread also have this amp. I think you can drive pretty much everything you have.
> 
> ...



Wow, I have never seen such output power, though it might be because I mostly look at portable stuffs. 

So I went to Aliexpress to buy amp. In the end, I didn’t get any amp but a bunch of tools and drivers


----------



## syazwaned

o0genesis0o said:


> You can just use a pair of tweezers to twist the metal mesh. It would fall off, but there would be still enough glue to attach it back. After removing the mesh, you will see a fabric filter covering a back vent. Remove it, and then close the metal mesh to prevent dust from entering. If you don’t like the sound, you can put everything back.


thanks friend!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

So I am just getting home after touring for a few months and I have a decent haul of new gear waiting for me to try! As it pertains to earbuds I have some lovely newcomers on deck: TRN EMA, Shozy BK, Rose Technics Maria II and Mojito, Yincrow RW3000, Ostry KC08T (this one was a shot in the dark based on one comparison in one review that happened to add enough to my order to get me an added discount lol), Dunu Alpha 1, RY4S (mmcx version), ISN Rambo, Yincrow RW-9, Vido (red and white), several different DIY makes, MusicMaker Tomahawk Mr.Z, NiceHCK Traceless, and a partidge in a pear tree.

Oh yeah, and a brand new Cayin RU6 to try them on as well as being reunited with my Kann Alpha that I left at home like an idiot. I wasn't sure where to start so I decided to throw on the first buds I opened up: TRN EMA here we go...

I feel like a kid on Christmas morning! And for anyone wondering, I don't normally buy like this, but I got a big bonus and I wanted to assemble a well rounded earbud collection from scratch so I kinda went a bit nuts treating myself. I should be busy trying/demoing for weeks!


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> So I am just getting home after touring for a few months and I have a decent haul of new gear waiting for me to try! As it pertains to earbuds I have some lovely newcomers on deck: TRN EMA, Shozy BK, Rose Technics Maria II and Mojito, Yincrow RW3000, Ostry KC08T (this one was a shot in the dark based on one comparison in one review that happened to add enough to my order to get me an added discount lol), Dunu Alpha 1, RY4S (mmcx version), ISN Rambo, Yincrow RW-9, Vido (red and white), several different DIY makes, MusicMaker Tomahawk Mr.Z, NiceHCK Traceless, and a partidge in a pear tree.
> 
> Oh yeah, and a brand new Cayin RU6 to try them on as well as being reunited with my Kann Alpha that I left at home like an idiot. I wasn't sure where to start so I decided to throw on the first buds I opened up: TRN EMA here we go...
> 
> I feel like a kid on Christmas morning! And for anyone wondering, I don't normally buy like this, but I got a big bonus and I wanted to assemble a well rounded earbud collection from scratch so I kinda went a bit nuts treating myself. I should be busy trying/demoing for weeks!



Mate, I’m drooling


----------



## syazwaned

mt877 said:


> Going a bit off topic, but hey it's to drive some fine buds...
> 
> I picked up one of these amps... A few others in this thread also have this amp. I think you can drive pretty much everything you have.
> 
> ...


Nice this is way cheaper than the 700usd Centrance Ampersand, although Ampersand clocks 6w at 48 ohms


----------



## mt877

o0genesis0o said:


> Wow, I have never seen such output power, though it might be because I mostly look at portable stuffs.
> 
> So I went to Aliexpress to buy amp. In the end, I didn’t get any amp but a bunch of tools and drivers


The thing I found about the Kaei Tap-1s is that you need to feed it a nice strong signal to start off with. If you don't then you can turn the volume to max and still have low output volume. I've input line level (approx 1.2volts) audio and that was a good starting point. I've also fed it lower level audio and output sounded good, but not loud. The real charm of the Tap-1s is the tubey 2nd harmonics sound which is pleasant to listen too. If you're going to use it for measurements, it would be better to bypass the tubes with the bypass switch. It is a hybrid amp, tube and solid state like many of the DAPs that have Nu-tubes on board, but it's only an amp.  As part of its output stage it uses dual MUSES02 op-amps, one for each channel. The MUSES02 amps actually don't have the very best specs, but they are designed / tuned for good musicality. The op-amps can be swapped out, but the height clearance is sort of low between the board and housing, so you couldn't use a Burson V5i op-amp (too high). You would be stuck with using only flat dual inline package (DIP) op-amps.


----------



## yaps66

JAnonymous5150 said:


> So I am just getting home after touring for a few months and I have a decent haul of new gear waiting for me to try! As it pertains to earbuds I have some lovely newcomers on deck: TRN EMA, Shozy BK, Rose Technics Maria II and Mojito, Yincrow RW3000, Ostry KC08T (this one was a shot in the dark based on one comparison in one review that happened to add enough to my order to get me an added discount lol), Dunu Alpha 1, RY4S (mmcx version), ISN Rambo, Yincrow RW-9, Vido (red and white), several different DIY makes, MusicMaker Tomahawk Mr.Z, NiceHCK Traceless, and a partidge in a pear tree.
> 
> Oh yeah, and a brand new Cayin RU6 to try them on as well as being reunited with my Kann Alpha that I left at home like an idiot. I wasn't sure where to start so I decided to throw on the first buds I opened up: TRN EMA here we go...
> 
> I feel like a kid on Christmas morning! And for anyone wondering, I don't normally buy like this, but I got a big bonus and I wanted to assemble a well rounded earbud collection from scratch so I kinda went a bit nuts treating myself. I should be busy trying/demoing for weeks!


Many congratulations on both the big bonus and your recent acquisitions!  Enjoy the experiences!


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Wow, I have never seen such output power, though it might be because I mostly look at portable stuffs.
> 
> So I went to Aliexpress to buy amp. In the end, I didn’t get any amp but a bunch of tools and drivers


Portables are capable of that amount of power (only compared to when that is in battery mode though), though they will probably have to be high end stuff. 

Still I am wondering how that would sound?! And it is a hybrid to boot... <drools>


JAnonymous5150 said:


> So I am just getting home after touring for a few months and I have a decent haul of new gear waiting for me to try! As it pertains to earbuds I have some lovely newcomers on deck: TRN EMA, Shozy BK, Rose Technics Maria II and Mojito, Yincrow RW3000, Ostry KC08T (this one was a shot in the dark based on one comparison in one review that happened to add enough to my order to get me an added discount lol), Dunu Alpha 1, RY4S (mmcx version), ISN Rambo, Yincrow RW-9, Vido (red and white), several different DIY makes, MusicMaker Tomahawk Mr.Z, NiceHCK Traceless, and a partidge in a pear tree.
> 
> Oh yeah, and a brand new Cayin RU6 to try them on as well as being reunited with my Kann Alpha that I left at home like an idiot. I wasn't sure where to start so I decided to throw on the first buds I opened up: TRN EMA here we go...
> 
> I feel like a kid on Christmas morning! And for anyone wondering, I don't normally buy like this, but I got a big bonus and I wanted to assemble a well rounded earbud collection from scratch so I kinda went a bit nuts treating myself. I should be busy trying/demoing for weeks!


One word, WOW! You have to be feeling like you have died and gone to heaven?! Do let us know your thoughts on them?!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

yaps66 said:


> Many congratulations on both the big bonus and your recent acquisitions!  Enjoy the experiences!


Thanks! Hey, so I see you have a pair if RW-2000s. I got to try them briefly and I actually really liked them. When I was putting in my order I got the RW-3000 so I could try it and possibly decide between the two for a keeper. Have you tried the RW-3k at all? If so any chance you want to give me a short comparison between the 2k and 3k?


----------



## earmonger

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur, this is one area where flathead earbuds (and tiny DDs) can and do really succeed in compared to other transducer mediums and driver types. Once understood and accustomed to, earbuds and their mini DDs, do offer an airy, wide-open, speaker-like presentation with natural-sounding timbre and layered imaging. Although IEMs, with either their enclosed mini DDs, BAs, hybrids, etc., can be super detailed (resolution) monsters with excellent FR retrieval they do tend to sacrifice air and openness in order to achieve it and thus why they may exhibit elements of that restrained tiny sound you speak of. There are pros and cons with all transducer mediums... it's just that IEM fanatics tend to not want to discuss (or even want to admit) the cons of their preferred transducer medium.


Yeah, well, there's a reason that musicians use bass. Wish your earbuds came even close to carrying that to you. 

I'm not a "fanatic" but I do want to hear what musicians have worked so long to generate and mix. I tried a few oh-wow budget recommendations here and was not impressed, to put it mildly. It's not just details (above); it's punch (below). Give me IEM irritation over earbud tinniness/rolloff anytime.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Portables are capable of that amount of power (only compared to when that is in battery mode though), though they will probably have to be high end stuff.
> 
> Still I am wondering how that would sound?! And it is a hybrid to boot... <drools>
> 
> One word, WOW! You have to be feeling like you have died and gone to heaven?! Do let us know your thoughts on them?!


Oh I will! Between the earbuds and a couple pairs of headphones I am in heaven! I have more new toys to play with than I know what to do with. I'm tired from youring and travelling, but something tells me I won't be sleeping just yet lol!


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> So I am just getting home after touring for a few months and I have a decent haul of new gear waiting for me to try! As it pertains to earbuds I have some lovely newcomers on deck: TRN EMA, Shozy BK, Rose Technics Maria II and Mojito, Yincrow RW3000, Ostry KC08T (this one was a shot in the dark based on one comparison in one review that happened to add enough to my order to get me an added discount lol), Dunu Alpha 1, RY4S (mmcx version), ISN Rambo, Yincrow RW-9, Vido (red and white), several different DIY makes, MusicMaker Tomahawk Mr.Z, NiceHCK Traceless, and a partidge in a pear tree.
> 
> Oh yeah, and a brand new Cayin RU6 to try them on as well as being reunited with my Kann Alpha that I left at home like an idiot. I wasn't sure where to start so I decided to throw on the first buds I opened up: TRN EMA here we go...
> 
> I feel like a kid on Christmas morning! And for anyone wondering, I don't normally buy like this, but I got a big bonus and I wanted to assemble a well rounded earbud collection from scratch so I kinda went a bit nuts treating myself. I should be busy trying/demoing for weeks!


Nice haul! Of all the buds you mentioned I have the Shozy BK and Yincrow RW3000, both are fantastic, though I have to say the RW3000 sing for me when mated with a Sony DAP or tube amp. To me if mated with a neutral DAP the treble can be a little bright. The Shozy BK are classic, not killer bass buds, just good all-rounders. "Sounds" like you'll have a great time listening to them all.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

earmonger said:


> Yeah, well, there's a reason that musicians use bass. Wish your earbuds came even close to carrying that to you.
> 
> I'm not a "fanatic" but I do want to hear what musicians have worked so long to generate and mix. I tried a few oh-wow budget recommendations here and was not impressed, to put it mildly. It's not just details (above); it's punch (below). Give me IEM irritation over earbud tinniness/rolloff anytime.


As he goes on to say, all transducer mediums have their pros and cons. It's just a different strokes for different folks situation. As a guy who just rediscovered earbuds a few months ago after decades of thinking they were inferior and not worth my time, I can say that I think earbuds have some very good strengths to play to. I understand how that may not be the case for everyone, though.


P.S. No hard feelings. More earbuds for those that like them!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> Nice haul! Of all the buds you mentioned I have the Shozy BK and Yincrow RW3000, both are fantastic, though I have to say the RW3000 sing for me when mated with a Sony DAP or tube amp. To me if mated with a neutral DAP the treble can be a little bright. The Shozy BK are classic, not killer bass buds, just good all-rounders. "Sounds" like you'll have a great time listening to them all.


Awesome! I am really looking forward to hearing the Shozy BKs. I have a friend from the UK who's opinions I value and who's tastes tend to closely align with mine and he says the BKs are one of his favorite all time buds for daily driving because they do so many things so well that they are amongst the best for general listening.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Kamen555 said:


> Don't know if anyone's tried this. I found that I can get great over ear fit for my k's llbs using d Final Audio hooks from my e3k/e2k sets. D fit is good enough that they don't get dislodged even when i sleep with them. D ones that come with d k's don't work well for my ears.


Awesome idea! Thank you for sharing that! Respects.


----------



## o0genesis0o

earmonger said:


> Yeah, well, there's a reason that musicians use bass. Wish your earbuds came even close to carrying that to you.
> 
> I'm not a "fanatic" but I do want to hear what musicians have worked so long to generate and mix. I tried a few oh-wow budget recommendations here and was not impressed, to put it mildly. It's not just details (above); it's punch (below). Give me IEM irritation over earbud tinniness/rolloff anytime.



Well, have to disagree with you a bit there, even though I am a strong advocate for thicker lower midrange and mid bass tuning over the thin and shrill Harman-ish tuning. The reason of my disagreement is Fiio FF3. These earbuds show that this form factor can have thick juicy sound that does not sacrifice any lower-end details. Orchestra bass and cello are rich and textured with these. Even despacito's bass line sounds alright with these earbuds. And all of this comes from someone who loves bass.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

baskingshark said:


> There are some CHIFI brands that are banned for discussion on headfi, and here's the reasons why: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1978#post-14135342
> 
> Post was courtesy of Master Slater.


FYI - *DQSM Audio* is good to go now... it is a mentionable brand these days.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Mate, I’m drooling


LOL and I also found that one of the stores I ordered from included a pair of Toneking TO400s as a thank you for my business. I have been buying IEMs, DACs, and all things ChiFi from them for a few years and the proprietor always throws in something extra when I put in a decent sized order with him. It's a cool little extra surprise to see what I gey each time. And he's generally pretty thoughtful about picking something that's useful and fits with what I have in the order.


----------



## syazwaned

WoodyLuvr said:


> FYI - *DQSM Audio* is good to go now... it is a mentionable brand these days.


thanks good to know


----------



## samandhi (Aug 13, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Thanks! Hey, so I see you have a pair if RW-2000s. I got to try them briefly and I actually really liked them. When I was putting in my order I got the RW-3000 so I could try it and possibly decide between the two for a keeper. Have you tried the RW-3k at all? If so any chance you want to give me a short comparison between the 2k and 3k?


I have both. I can say that the RW3000 are much cleaner sounding on the top end and more of a boost to the upper mids, but that brings some caveats. They aren't as warm as the RW2000, and even though (I think) they have the same amount of midbass, it is not percieved as having as much because the RW3000 has more upper end. This also makes them sound a bit less warm and full/rouned. Also the pina gain is a bit higher than the RW2000, and the sub-bass rolls off a lot faster. Now, this isn't to say the RW3000 is bad AT ALL... They are fantastic actually!

Bottom line (IMHO) is that the RW2000 is more musical and an all-rounder, and the RW3000 is more analytical in nature, so depending on what you are after one could be better than the other. They aren't really the same signature at all (to my ears).


earmonger said:


> Yeah, well, there's a reason that musicians use bass. Wish your earbuds came even close to carrying that to you.
> 
> I'm not a "fanatic" but I do want to hear what musicians have worked so long to generate and mix. I tried a few oh-wow budget recommendations here and was not impressed, to put it mildly. It's not just details (above); it's punch (below). Give me IEM irritation over earbud tinniness/rolloff anytime.


Nothing wrong with bass at all, and I love good bass. And it seems as though you have already made up your mind (probably even before you tried them), so I wouldn't dare try and sway you in any way.

BUT..... you have no idea what you are talking about. And I mean that in the nicest way (since you haven't heard all there is to hear out there). There are plenty of buds out there that have some great punch (yes, on the low end). But I digress, since you will probably never find out. And you are entitled to your opinion after all.

Having said that though, I have to wonder why you bothered posting such a negative post here if you aren't interested in earbuds at all?! This IS the "earbud" thread after all. I mean, you didn't even bother to be civil about it IMO. If you wanted to debate the subject in a civil manner, that might be interesting. However, I am a civil person, and will simply say to you in response that you are probably right (for your ears)...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> I have both. I can say that the RW3000 are much cleaner sounding on the top end and more of a boost to the upper mids, but that brings some caveats. They aren't as warm as the RW2000, and even though (I think) they have the same amount of midbass, it is not percieved as having as much because the RW3000 has more upper end. This also makes them sound a bit less warm and full/rouned. Also the pina gain is a bit higher than the RW2000, and the sub-bass rolls off a lot faster. Now, this isn't to say the RW3000 is bad AT ALL... They are fantastic actually!
> 
> Bottom line (IMHO) is that the RW2000 is more musical and an all-rounder, and the RW3000 is more analytical in nature, so depending on what you are after one could be better than the other. They aren't really the same signature at all (to my
> 
> ...


Thanks for the breakdown! I can't wait to give the RW3Ks a whirl. I really liked the musicality of the RW2Ks so it will be interesting to see which one, if either, I end up keeping/including in my collection.


----------



## yaps66

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Thanks! Hey, so I see you have a pair if RW-2000s. I got to try them briefly and I actually really liked them. When I was putting in my order I got the RW-3000 so I could try it and possibly decide between the two for a keeper. Have you tried the RW-3k at all? If so any chance you want to give me a short comparison between the 2k and 3k?


Unfortunately not. Leaning on your experiences to decide if I should also get the 3k!


----------



## earmonger

o0genesis0o said:


> Well, have to disagree with you a bit there, even though I am a strong advocate for thicker lower midrange and mid bass tuning over the thin and shrill Harman-ish tuning. The reason of my disagreement is Fiio FF3. These earbuds show that this form factor can have thick juicy sound that does not sacrifice any lower-end details. Orchestra bass and cello are rich and textured with these. Even despacito's bass line sounds alright with these earbuds. And all of this comes from someone who loves bass.


Good for you. I've just seen and succumbed to some hype in this thread -- with Ali orders following -- and have not been impressed,  to put it mildly. Yincrow X6? Qian39? Pathetic and unlistenable. I may just give them away in Classifieds because they are so disappointing.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Thanks for the breakdown! I can't wait to give the RW3Ks a whirl. I really liked the musicality of the RW2Ks so it will be interesting to see which one, if either, I end up keeping/including in my collection.


I have decided to keep them both because they both do something different than any of my other buds. They really are TOTL as far as I am concerned...  Whether you keep one/both/none you will enjoy listening to both I am sure. One thing that also make me love them is that they have one of the best cables from an earbud I have seen, hands-down...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> I have decided to keep them both because they both do something different than any of my other buds. They really are TOTL as far as I am concerned...  Whether you keep one/both/none you will enjoy listening to both I am sure. One thing that also make me love them is that they have one of the best cables from an earbud I have seen, hands-down...


Nice! I love it when a manufacturer takes the initiative and includes a great cable. It makes the whole experience from opening to using through the life of the product a much better experience. I like it when I don't feel the need to recable or replace a cable with something aftermarket. The RW2Ks I tried were a friend's and he bought them used with a Tripowin Zonie cable on them so I have no idea what their stock cable is like until I open them when I pull them out of the stack of boxes and packages lol!


----------



## samandhi

earmonger said:


> Good for you. I've just seen and succumbed to some hype in this thread -- with Ali orders following -- and have not been impressed,  to put it mildly. Yincrow X6? Qian39? Pathetic and unlistenable. I may just give them away in Classifieds because they are so disappointing.


Well, what did you expect for $5? Flagship sound? That is like buying some cheap Walmart gummies and saying that I hate all IEMs because those really sucked... 

Anyhow, you could try and be less rude, and you would probably get further. But if you want to "troll", go ahead. At some point, you will either get "edited" or ignored by all (like you are now by me)...  Good night!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

yaps66 said:


> Unfortunately not. Leaning on your experiences to decide if I should also get the 3k!


I'll let you know what my ears tell me when the RW3Ks come up to bat!


----------



## rkw

mt877 said:


> Knowing that foams affect the sound, wouldn't double foams increase the bass / make the highs sound really rolled off?


You say "increase the bass" like it's a bad thing . For the highs you can do a donut with a full foam.


----------



## samandhi (Aug 13, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Nice! I love it when a manufacturer takes the initiative and includes a great cable. It makes the whole experience from opening to using through the life of the product a much better experience. I like it when I don't feel the need to recable or replace a cable with something aftermarket. The RW2Ks I tried were a friend's and he bought them used with a Tripowin Zonie cable on them so I have no idea what their stock cable is like until I open them when I pull them out of the stack of boxes and packages lol!


OH! You are in for a treat with that cable. If I decided to get rid of either one of them, I might keep the cable for my other IEMs... LOL And also you could probably run over the Yincrows and they would still work...

The Maria II also have a very nice cable (if a bit stiff) FYI....

Edit: Oh BTW, I think the stock cable on both Yincrow is better than the Zonie cable (quite a bit IMO)....  Someone did just what I mentioned earlier (probalby).


----------



## WoodyLuvr

mt877 said:


> The thing I found about the Kaei Tap-1s is that you need to feed it a nice strong signal to start off with. If you don't then you can turn the volume to max and still have low output volume. I've input line level (approx 1.2volts) audio and that was a good starting point. I've also fed it lower level audio and output sounded good, but not loud. The real charm of the Tap-1s is the tubey 2nd harmonics sound which is pleasant to listen too. If you're going to use it for measurements, it would be better to bypass the tubes with the bypass switch. It is a hybrid amp, tube and solid state like many of the DAPs that have Nu-tubes on board, but it's only an amp.  As part of its output stage it uses dual MUSES02 op-amps, one for each channel. The MUSES02 amps actually don't have the very best specs, but they are designed / tuned for good musicality. The op-amps can be swapped out, but the height clearance is sort of low between the board and housing, so you couldn't use a Burson V5i op-amp (too high). You would be stuck with using only flat dual inline package (DIP) op-amps.


Thank you for sharing that is now two or three very good reviews I have read about it on this thread. May have to give it a listen soon!

You might try the AD827SQ... the MUSES02 is a good opamp (and an exceptionally good one from certain manufacturers) but I found the *Analog Devices AD827SQ* to be much better for earbuds across the board in a few different devices that I have rolled them through. Something to consider and/or try if you get the itch to.


Spoiler: Pic of Analog Devices AD827SQ


----------



## yaps66

JAnonymous5150 said:


> LOL and I also found that one of the stores I ordered from included a pair of Toneking TO400s as a thank you for my business. I have been buying IEMs, DACs, and all things ChiFi from them for a few years and the proprietor always throws in something extra when I put in a decent sized order with him. It's a cool little extra surprise to see what I gey each time. And he's generally pretty thoughtful about picking something that's useful and fits with what I have in the order.


That’s a really nice touch and a sure way of your repeat business! Appreciate that!


----------



## yaps66

samandhi said:


> Bottom line (IMHO) is that the RW2000 is more musical and an all-rounder, and the RW3000 is more analytical in nature, so depending on what you are after one could be better than the other. They aren't really the same signature at all (to my ears).


Sounds to me like they are complimentary and therefore worthwhile having both in your collection!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

WoodyLuvr said:


> Thank you for sharing that is now two or three very good reviews I have read about it on this thread. May have to give it a listen soon!
> 
> You might try the AD827SQ... the MUSES02 is a good opamp (and an exceptionally good one from certain manufacturers) but I found the *Analog Devices AD827SQ* to be much better for earbuds across the board in a few different devices that I have rolled them through. Something to consider and/or try if you get the itch to.
> 
> ...


Gotta love swapping OPAmps!


----------



## yaps66 (Aug 13, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> which one, if either,


another option is “or both”


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Thank you for sharing that is now two or three very good reviews I have read about it on this thread. May have to give it a listen soon!
> 
> You might try the AD827SQ... the MUSES02 is a good opamp (and an exceptionally good one from certain manufacturers) but I found the *Analog Devices AD827SQ* to be much better for earbuds across the board in a few different devices that I have rolled them through. Something to consider and/or try if you get the itch to.
> 
> ...


WOW! Plug and play op amps. Technology is amazing! 


yaps66 said:


> Sounds to me like they are complimentary and therefore worthwhile having both in your collection!


Yes, exactly my thoughts! I like the RW3000 for home when it is quiet, and the RW2000 when I'm out and about (being warmer the bass comes through much better with background noise).


----------



## yaps66

samandhi said:


> OH! You are in for a treat with that cable. If I decided to get rid of either one of them, I might keep the cable for my other IEMs... LOL And also you could probably run over the Yincrows and they would still work...
> 
> The Maria II also have a very nice cable (if a bit stiff) FYI....
> 
> Edit: Oh BTW, I think the stock cable on both Yincrow is better than the Zonie cable (quite a bit IMO)....  Someone did just what I mentioned earlier (probalby).


+1 on Yincrow cable. The cable on the RW2K is very nice!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 13, 2022)

Damn, did I just receive a volley of cannon fire from the rear?! Be warned ye' IEM pirates, I am a very well-armed flathead privateer!



earmonger said:


> Yeah, well, there's a reason that musicians use bass. Wish your earbuds came even close to carrying that to you.
> 
> I'm not a "fanatic" but I do want to hear what musicians have worked so long to generate and mix. I tried a few oh-wow budget recommendations here and was not impressed, to put it mildly. It's not just details (above); it's punch (below). Give me IEM irritation over earbud tinniness/rolloff anytime.


Attacker... parley?

Welcome to the rabbit hole! We are all a bit mad down here!

*“But I don’t want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked.*​*“Oh, you can’t help that,” said the Cat: “we’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad.”*​*“How do you know I’m mad?” said Alice.*​_*“You must be,” said the Cat, “or you wouldn’t have come here.”*_​
You are mistaken good person... there are a good number of currently available earbuds with excellent bass presentations... Smabat has a few bass savvy models (if you can handle the highs ala pinna gain)... there are *RikuBuds* *@RikudouGoku*'s Berserker 1 & Grand Berserker 2... the Longyao-Yinman 2.0 600 LE... and not so current Blur Wraith and White Face Limited Editions... etc. etc. etc. All of these flatheads will knock your socks off with their solid bass performance.

You simply came in at the budget level and although as well-regarded those earbuds you purchased may be they are not known for good sub-bass presentation... most especially the Qian39 which is a sleeping earbud known for it's super laid-back and relaxed fatigue-free tuning... again not a performer by any means.

Although not known for deep chest-thumping, heart-pounding, impactful bass... flathead earbuds when fitted correctly can and do offer a fast, extremely detailed, open-sounding, and low bass presentation that rivals a many IEM, full-sized headphone, and even small monitor speaker setup. One must simply adjust their expectations a little to really appreciate what is being offered instead. Of course, due to their smaller driver size they simply can't move air to create that slamming bass like larger headphones or speakers nor can they by their open design sitting outside the ear canal create that sealed bass happy resonating chamber as seen in IEMs. But what they *do offer* is an unique speaker-like bass presentation that is both intimate and airy while still being exciting and well-timbred. Bass isn't all about punch and slam.



earmonger said:


> I may just give them away in Classifieds because they are so disappointing.


Free earbuds!!! You are hereby automatically made a lifetime earbud member  ! Welcome to the fold!



earmonger said:


> Good for you. I've just seen and succumbed to some hype in this thread -- with Ali orders following -- and have not been impressed,  to put it mildly. Yincrow X6? Qian39? Pathetic and unlistenable.


*I honestly think you didn't give flatheads a fair shake and/or may have come in with some unfair (unrealistic) expectations.*

You definitely need to give it more than a few days for your ears and brain to adjust as it can take a good week, two, or longer for one's ears & brain to fully adjust to a new sound signature; new transducer medium; and/or new set-up (in cases of loudspeakers with repositioning and/or added room treatments). It is further highly recommended that you refrain from even trying to compare earbuds to either headphones or IEMs for at a least a good week or so to really allow your ears & brain to adjust and understand what is being presented. Yes, certain frequencies may seem at first to be over-exaggerated; missing; distorted (excited); and/or veiled but they typically will balance out and settle down with time as your ears and brains adjust accordingly. Therefore, nailing down the true sound signature of a transducer, is extremely difficult to initially-quickly ascertain... especially with certain models and particular brands with unique house tunings.

Also experiment with fit... earbuds have their own fitting requirements... not nearly as critical as with IEMs (getting that 'seal') but nonetheless do require a proper fit in their own right as do all head/earphones really. This has been discussed, at great lengths, throughout the history of this thread (here are two examples that you might find helpful regarding "earbud fitting": *Post #26,082* and *Post #22,897*. I, and many others here on this thread, would highly encourage that you to try various foam combinations to see if that improves the experience for you. Finding that perfect earbud is highly dependent on "the fit". Earbuds are prone to fitting issues due to mostly ear size but also anatomical variances between individuals. The use of foams to improve "the fit" can and does change the sound signature... sometimes drastically for better or worse and thus needs to be seriously factored in as accordingly

Personally, I always found it much easier to go between my earbuds and open back headphones than to an IEM or a closed back and vice versa. Once you figure out the best fitting/setting, with or without foams, you'll soon see that earbuds although with less bass than IEMs do offer a much wider soundstage with improved timbre and separation... and via a much more comfortable, cooler, and long listening package.

Good luck and please do report back your findings if you do decide to give flatheads a second try... from there we might be able to give you some solid recommendations and better guidance to eek out that performance you seek.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Not directly related, but I gave away a pair of modded KZ IEM to my friend who cannot a new pair. After a week, he told me his ears are annoyed and he wants the usual earbuds again. 

Maybe I can make a pair for the guy using some bass heavy driver. (my first guinea pig   )


----------



## samandhi

yaps66 said:


> +1 on Yincrow cable. The cable on the RW2K is very nice!


IIRC the RW3000 is the same cable with different coloring (if it ain't broke, don't fix it)... 


WoodyLuvr said:


> Damn, did I just receive a volley of cannon fire from the rear?! Be warned IEM Pirates, I am a well-armed privateer!


Priceless!  LOLOLOLOL


WoodyLuvr said:


> *I honestly think you didn't give flatheads a fair shake and/or came in with some unfair (unrealistic) expectations.*
> 
> You definitely need to give it more than a few days for your ears and brain to adjust... it takes a good week, two, or longer for ears & brains to fully adjust to a new sound signature; new transducer medium; and/or set-up (in cases of loudspeakers and their repositioning and/or added room treatments). Certain frequencies may seem at first to be over-exaggerated; missing; distorted (excited); and/or veiled but they typically will balance out and settle down with time as your ears and brains adjust accordingly. Therefore, nailing down the true sound signature of a transducer, is extremely difficult to initially-quickly ascertain... especially with certain models and particular brands with unique house tunings.
> 
> ...


You, my friend are a rock, and thank you for being that way!


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Not directly related, but I gave away a pair of modded KZ IEM to my friend who cannot a new pair. After a week, he told me his ears are annoyed and he wants the usual earbuds again.
> 
> *Maybe I can make a pair for the guy using some bass heavy driver. (my first guinea pig   )*


No, that sounds fantastic if you ask me.  Do keep us informed?!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Okay, so I don't have any full reviews or impressions yet, but one thing I have noticed lately with a few earbuds and IEMs that I have tried is that LCP drivers tend to have a very lush but articulate and snappy character to them that I really enjoy quite a bit. It's just something I have noticed after trying quite a few LCP driven buds/IEMs over the last month or two. Anyone else notice this or am I just a nut?


----------



## Kamen555

samandhi said:


> Yeah, as mentioned earlier i also got some as "accessories", but for the life of me I don't remember which set. Hehe


😁 I have both n they both give them same hooks. So I have another pair to use for other buds that need it.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 13, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay, so I don't have any full reviews or impressions yet, but one thing I have noticed lately with a few earbuds and IEMs that I have tried is that LCP drivers tend to have a very lush but articulate and snappy character to them that I really enjoy quite a bit. It's just something I have noticed after trying quite a few LCP driven buds/IEMs over the last month or two. Anyone else notice this or am I just a nut?


Nope, not a nut at all... the lowly, mistreated LCP actually can be astoundingly wonderful sounding if tuned correctly and does in fact offer a very unique presentation (again if tuned properly). This is something that our DIY Masters *@FranQL @Ronion @RikudouGoku @jeejack @tgx78 @ValSuki @furyossa @irv003 *will all quickly attest!


----------



## yaps66

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay, so I don't have any full reviews or impressions yet, but one thing I have noticed lately with a few earbuds and IEMs that I have tried is that LCP drivers tend to have a very lush but articulate and snappy character to them that I really enjoy quite a bit. It's just something I have noticed after trying quite a few LCP driven buds/IEMs over the last month or two. Anyone else notice this or am I just a nut?


I would tend to agree with you. In my (very limited) experience, they do sound more organic compared to Beryllium drivers.


----------



## o0genesis0o

WoodyLuvr said:


> Nope, not a nut at all... the lowly, mistreated LCP actually can be astoundingly wonderful sounding if tuned correctly and does in fact offer a very unique presentation (again if tuned properly). This is something that our DIY Masters *@FranQL @Ronion @RikudouGoku @jeejack @tgx78 @ValSuki @furyossa @irv003 will all quickly attest!*



LCP driver is lowly and mistreated? I thought people talk about the LCP drivers in Moondrop Aria like they are blessing from heaven   

Maybe I'm too influenced by Fiio and Dunu, but I like some shiny Be or Ti driver.


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay, so I don't have any full reviews or impressions yet, but one thing I have noticed lately with a few earbuds and IEMs that I have tried is that LCP drivers tend to have a very lush but articulate and snappy character to them that I really enjoy quite a bit. It's just something I have noticed after trying quite a few LCP driven buds/IEMs over the last month or two. Anyone else notice this or am I just a nut?


That is a common observation, but I don’t think you can use that as evidence for your sanity.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> LCP driver is lowly and mistreated? I thought people talk about the LCP drivers in Moondrop Aria like they are blessing from heaven
> 
> Maybe I'm too influenced by Fiio and Dunu, but I like some shiny Be or Ti driver.


SMABAT has a really nice Ti driver as well.  One of my favorites is the 150Ohm.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> LCP driver is lowly and mistreated? I thought people talk about the LCP drivers in Moondrop Aria like they are blessing from heaven
> 
> Maybe I'm too influenced by Fiio and Dunu, but I like some shiny Be or Ti driver.


I saw LCP mentioned in marketing for like a month and then all the manufacturers seemed to switch to diamond like carbon (DLC) drivers. Even Moondrop switched to DLC in their Aria SE. Before that I had always seen biocellulose and various metallic coatings advertised and had never seen much on LCP so I think it's reasonable to say that it's semi-overlooked in the grand scheme of things.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I saw LCP mentioned in marketing for like a month and then all the manufacturers seemed to switch to diamond like carbon (DLC) drivers. Even Moondrop switched to DLC in their Aria SE. Before that I had always seen biocellulose and various metallic coatings advertised and had never seen much on LCP so I think it's reasonable to say that it's semi-overlooked in the grand scheme of things.



I think they switch because they reuse the driver from KXXS.

Anyhow, now that you mention it, DLC seems every where nowadays. After all the talk and investment in Be drivers, it's kind of funny to see Fiio use DLC rather than Be driver in their flagship FH9


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay, so I don't have any full reviews or impressions yet, but one thing I have noticed lately with a few earbuds and IEMs that I have tried is that LCP drivers tend to have a very lush but articulate and snappy character to them that I really enjoy quite a bit. It's just something I have noticed after trying quite a few LCP driven buds/IEMs over the last month or two. Anyone else notice this or am I just a nut?


Yes, LCP CAN be great. Really any of the "coatings" can be great if used properly (though some a tad bit better than others).


Kamen555 said:


> 😁 I have both n they both give them same hooks. So I have another pair to use for other buds that need it.


That is a good idea! 


WoodyLuvr said:


> Nope, not a nut at all... the lowly, mistreated LCP actually can be astoundingly wonderful sounding if tuned correctly and does in fact offer a very unique presentation (again if tuned properly). This is something that our DIY Masters *@FranQL @Ronion @RikudouGoku @jeejack @tgx78 @ValSuki @furyossa @irv003 *will all quickly attest!


*Yes, and I have a set, made with LCP and made custom for me by @FranQL on its (slow as **molasses**) way! Woohoooo *

P.S. I simply can't wait! (have I mentioned that)?


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> SMABAT has a really nice Ti driver as well.  One of my favorites is the 150Ohm.


Oh don't start that again, you know you like all their drivers.... LOL 

But seriously, I really like that driver as well.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> I think they switch because they reuse the driver from KXXS.
> 
> Anyhow, now that you mention it, DLC seems every where nowadays. After all the talk and investment in Be drivers, it's kind of funny to see Fiio use DLC rather than Be driver in their flagship FH9


I totally agree that they reused a driver they had on hand as a money grab, but I also think they saw a way to capitalize on a market trend that had DLCs growing in popularity while the OG Aria was losing a bit of momentum with the Tin T3+ and Dunu Titan S starting to take some of that sub $100 IEM marketshare back. The T3+ also being an LCP, $10 cheaper, and arguably better built and better tuned (i replaced my Arias with T3+ after 6 months. Can you tell? Lol) exacerbated the situation as it gained some momentum, too. Props to Moondrop for being savvy, spotting the trend, and putting a product out there to capitalize on it, though.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Props to Moondrop for being savvy, spotting the trend, and putting a product out there to capitalize on it, though.


Speaking of which (jumping WAY off topic here, sorry), DUNU has now entered the planar IEM wars in case you didn't know...


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> Speaking of which (jumping WAY off topic here, sorry), DUNU has now entered the planar IEM wars in case you didn't know...



And they STILL haven't released the SA4 internationally. You know, the one on their development roadmap that they released early this year. Oh well, WAY off topic here.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> And they STILL haven't released the SA4 internationally. You know, the one on their development roadmap that they released early this year. Oh well, WAY off topic here.


IKR? hehe I had a thought of getting that set. I only have one set of full BA (Audiosense T800), and I wanted to see if there is better out there (though those are terrific) without spending the money for kilobuck ones. 

Anyhow, so that we get back on topic...... earbuds!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

TRN EMA early impressions: Surprisingly detailed for an $8 pair of earbuds. The midrange, especially upper mids, gives nice vocal reproduction with female voices a la Norah Jones and Amy Winehouse sounding particularly vibrant. Nothing much to note good or bad on the low end or highs. Bass is decent, but nothing special and the highs are maybe a touch thin, but overall pretty good. These are well worth the $8-$9 they go for and I could easily see them becoming a well loved pair for a budget collection looking for a pair with a sweet, but not overly warm midrange.


I will do some more listening with them later when I'm not so tired so I can see what my impressions are like then. Up next: Shozy BK!


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> TRN EMA early impressions: Surprisingly detailed for an $8 pair of earbuds. The midrange, especially upper mids, gives nice vocal reproduction with female voices a la Norah Jones and Amy Winehouse sounding particularly vibrant. Nothing much to note good or bad on the low end or highs. Bass is decent, but nothing special and the highs are maybe a touch thin, but overall pretty good. These are well worth the $8-$9 they go for and I could easily see them becoming a well loved pair for a budget collection looking for a pair with a sweet, but not overly warm midrange.
> 
> 
> I will do some more listening with them later when I'm not so tired so I can see what my impressions are like then. Up next: Shozy BK!


Nice!


----------



## mt877

rkw said:


> You say "increase the bass" like it's a bad thing . For the highs you can do a donut with a full foam.


For me one full thick foam is enough to bring out nice bass without excessive roll off on the high end. If you like more foams, then that's great it works for you. There's no right or wrong, just questioning if there was too much bass causing the high end to roll off with double stacked foams.


----------



## mt877

WoodyLuvr said:


> Thank you for sharing that is now two or three very good reviews I have read about it on this thread. May have to give it a listen soon!
> 
> You might try the AD827SQ... the MUSES02 is a good opamp (and an exceptionally good one from certain manufacturers) but I found the *Analog Devices AD827SQ* to be much better for earbuds across the board in a few different devices that I have rolled them through. Something to consider and/or try if you get the itch to.
> 
> ...


Yep, read some nice reviews about the AD amps. Just wanted to clarify that the Kaei Tap-1s does not have Nu-tubes on board, was just saying it is hybrid like some DAPs that sport the Nu-tubes. There's speculation that the Tap-1s is using miniature Raytheon tubes. I've opened up my amp but the markings on the tubes were not visible.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> For me one full thick foam is enough to bring out nice bass without excessive roll off on the high end. If you like more foams, then that's great it works for you. There's no right or wrong, just questioning if there was too much bass causing the high end to roll off with double stacked foams.


Of course, I have never felt the need for more than a single foam either. Normally I don't want rolloff on the high end anyhow. Most buds that have a boosted pina gain are actually a bit dark if you EQ that down, and want for more treble IMO..


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Yep, read some nice reviews about the AD amps. Just wanted to clarify that the Kaei Tap-1s does not have Nu-tubes on board, was just saying it is hybrid like some DAPs that sport the Nu-tubes. There's speculation that the Tap-1s is using miniature Raytheon tubes. I've opened up my amp but the markings on the tubes were not visible.


I wasn't sure I would like an amp with Nutubes, but the 6P1 is actually really good implemented in my amp IMO. Shame it doesn't have SS mode, it is full tube or nothing.


----------



## FranQL (Aug 13, 2022)

Ronion said:


> SMABAT has a really nice Ti driver as well.  One of my favorites is the 150Ohm.


Oh yes, I need a second pair..... and a third pair


----------



## ValSuki

WoodyLuvr said:


> Nope, not a nut at all... the lowly, mistreated LCP actually can be astoundingly wonderful sounding if tuned correctly and does in fact offer a very unique presentation (again if tuned properly). This is something that our DIY Masters *@FranQL @Ronion @RikudouGoku @jeejack @tgx78 @ValSuki @furyossa @irv003 *will all quickly attest!


I do plan on developing an LCP bud very soon, with a unique acoustic housing some of yall seem to have seen already!
Im doing many protos with it first, but expect some results soon when my shells have finished!


----------



## silverszi

earmonger said:


> Good for you. I've just seen and succumbed to some hype in this thread -- with Ali orders following -- and have not been impressed,  to put it mildly. Yincrow X6? Qian39? Pathetic and unlistenable. I may just give them away in Classifieds because they are so disappointing.


I bought the Qian39 too and only yesterday did I realise literally anything with pinna gain is unlistenable to my ears.
I can't stop thinking about it and how common it is in literally every portable audio device 
it makes me think "are my ears weird" or is everyone else just not used to anything different.
Did you try and eq down the 3khz area at all?


----------



## silverszi

It keeps pissing me off because I could have searched for something better the first time if I had known.


----------



## ian91

silverszi said:


> It keeps pissing me off because I could have searched for something better the first time if I had known.



I note you have the ER2SE which itself has a reasonable pinna gain as per the Ety research curve. Do you EQ it or does that not bother you?


----------



## silverszi

ian91 said:


> I note you have the ER2SE which itself has a reasonable pinna gain as per the Ety research curve. Do you EQ it or does that not bother you?


I eq it but it's still not great
it doesn't fit well in my ear at all and the sound quality isn't that good either.

Best thing I own is koss ksc75 eq'd to as flat as it can go


----------



## FranQL (Aug 13, 2022)

earmonger said:


> Good for you. I've just seen and succumbed to some hype in this thread -- with Ali orders following -- and have not been impressed,  to put it mildly. Yincrow X6? Qian39? Pathetic and unlistenable. I may just give them away in Classifieds because they are so disappointing.



I haven't heard pre-made qian, but one thing I do know, and that is that the driver used in it is really good if you appreciate the mid-high focused sound, and it sounds perfectly good for the price, so you might not like it. Whether they are tight, or  they arent your cup of tea, which is a different thing. A €3 VIDO is also quite good (talking about its X6 yincrow) but I haven't detected any Pinna gain on it, maybe I missed it or I'm wrong, a great expert on this topic is @captione .

Sometimes the prejudices of more expensive is better influence us in our criteria, sometimes we pay €180 for a bud that has exactly the same driver (and adjustment sometimes) that we find in a bud between €10 and €20, and the evaluations are so different that it makes me think about how much subjectivity there is in this hobby.


----------



## silverszi

Is there anything that has a near flatline frequency response so I can find what my target response is easily with filters.


----------



## ttorbic

This is related to some of the recent posts on sources for earbuds:
I got myself an IKKO ITX-01 for work: https://www.ikkoaudio.com/products/itx01-docking-station. Boy this thing is loud, even though the specs state a fairly modest power output (64mW @ 32 Ohms). It also has a high noise floor. I have to set my laptop volume to the lowest, set Spotify/Apple Music to 50%, and I can then listen to my Rikubuds Alter Rider 1. Any idea what's behind this? Compare this to to my other source, ifi Zen DAC: I can comfortably have laptop & music player volumes at 100%, then adjust volume with the analog pot at 8-9 o'clock, even though the Zen DAC's output in SE is more than twice than that of ITX-01. I'm not saying it sounds great, more than I'm confused why it's seemingly so loud compared to other sources?

P.S. I'm also driving the Serratus at 20% laptop, 100% Spotify volume, and it's at my normal listening volume already??


----------



## silverszi (Aug 13, 2022)

I have made a revelation
flat measured fr (using crinacle measurements) sounds good with iems (tested using blon blo-3, and i dont remember this thing having literally no treble extension but no it is not the filters)
i dont have any "good enough" iems though to continue testing my theories.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Oh don't start that again, you know you like all their drivers.... LOL
> 
> But seriously, I really like that driver as well.


All their drivers are honestly great.  What can I say?  LOL


----------



## Ronion

silverszi said:


> Is there anything that has a near flatline frequency response so I can find what my target response is easily with filters.


Vido/X6 or if you want something awesome, Blur PK32.


----------



## mt877

WoodyLuvr said:


> Also experiment with fit... earbuds have their own fitting requirements... not nearly as critical as with IEMs (getting that 'seal') but nonetheless do require a proper fit in their own right as do all head/earphones really. This has been discussed, at great lengths, throughout the history of this thread (here are two examples that you might find helpful regarding "earbud fitting": *Post #26,082* and *Post #22,897*. I, and many others here on this thread, would highly encourage that you to try various foam combinations to see if that improves the experience for you. Finding that perfect earbud is highly dependent on "the fit". Earbuds are prone to fitting issues due to mostly ear size but also anatomical variances between individuals. The use of foams to improve "the fit" can and does change the sound signature... sometimes drastically for better or worse and thus needs to be seriously factored in as accordingly


Following the link to *Post #26,082*, there was an additional link which pointed to a nifty earbud sizing idea for people that have problems with loose fitting buds. All credits to the original poster.

*

*


----------



## silverszi

@WoodyLuvr do you know of any earbuds that sound like a literal flat-line in terms of their response and not of a high impedance.


----------



## silverszi (Aug 13, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Vido/X6 or if you want something awesome, Blur PK32.


vido and x6 both have pinna gain from what i know

edit
i have been affected by misinformation on the internet.


----------



## syazwaned

silverszi said:


> @WoodyLuvr do you know of any earbuds that sound like a literal flat-line in terms of their response and not of a high impedance.


LBBs


----------



## silverszi

syazwaned said:


> LBBs


im returning them already and they have obvious pinna gain and pretty strong bass rolloff


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 13, 2022)

silverszi said:


> @WoodyLuvr do you know of any earbuds that sound like a literal flat-line in terms of their response and not of a high impedance.





syazwaned said:


> LBBs


LOL! @syazwaned beat me to it! LBBs is super neutral and quite flat for an earbud and plays well with EQ.


silverszi said:


> im returning them already and they have obvious pinna gain and pretty strong bass rolloff


Sounds like you are super sensitive to high mids and low highs even more than I... maybe you should think about going to the dark side. Shozy BK Stardust is fairly flat as well but leans to the dark/warm side of things and is low impedance.


Spoiler: Shozy BK Stardust Sound Chart


----------



## silverszi

WoodyLuvr said:


> LOL! @syazwaned beat me to it! LBBs is super neutral and quite flat for an earbud and plays well with EQ.
> 
> Sounds like you are super sensitive even more than I... maybe you should think about going to the dark side. Shozy BK is fairly flat as well but leans to the dark/warm side of things.
> 
> ...


Yeah I have eq'd my blon blo3 to a flat line and it sounds the best of anything i have simply with that except for the complete lack of treble extension. Same target applies to koss ksc75 using crinacle's measurements as a basis.


----------



## Black-Wolf

Well, there is a problem with the concept itself of flat line...what do you mean by it?
A real flat line would seem extremely unatural as we don't ear each frequency equally loud. (Our ear best ear from about 500hz to 4khz, in the vocal range)
From an accoustic point of view, a perfectly flatline would be terribly honky and would seem purely medium oriented: no lows, no highs...

Most neutral oriented earbuds/IEM/Headphones/Speakers use a compensation curve to seem audibly neutral (curves are different for each type of device: not the same for buds and IEM, for obvious accoustic reasons)
BUT it seems everyone disagrees on the notion of linearity/ neutrality: Diffused Field Curve? (etymotics use a variant of it)? Harlan Curve? Or some propriatary curves (Dan Clarke, Audeze, etc.)? Each of them will pretend to have a kind of flat *audible* response (maybe not people following Harman curve, which is a statiscally prefered Curve) with its own compensation...but a flatline...i think no one would bother to out this on the market.

I may be mistaken though, no disrespect in my post.


----------



## silverszi

WoodyLuvr said:


> LOL! @syazwaned beat me to it! LBBs is super neutral and quite flat for an earbud and plays well with EQ.
> 
> Sounds like you are super sensitive to high mids and low highs even more than I... maybe you should think about going to the dark side. Shozy BK Stardust is fairly flat as well but leans to the dark/warm side of things and is low impedance.
> 
> ...


I'll look into the bk/stardust but at current there's no way I'm buying them lol (money).


----------



## mt877

For the folks looking for smaller size buds, you can't go wrong with these... a fun cable replacement and they sound great as well.
No special tuning needed, the buds have been tuned well from the original manufacturer. Everything bought from AE.

Search results for "Docomo pk2" in the Earbuds Round-Up thread.

Docomo pk2 14.8mm driver 32Ω


----------



## silverszi (Aug 13, 2022)

Black-Wolf said:


> Well, there is a problem with the concept itself of flat line...what do you mean by it?
> A real flat line would seem extremely unatural as we don't ear each frequency equally loud. (Our ear best ear from about 500hz to 4khz, in the vocal range)
> From an accoustic point of view, a perfectly flatline would be terribly honky and would seem purely medium oriented: no lows, no highs...
> 
> ...


Basically
pinna gain sounds bad to me, that 3khz boost hurts my ears.
I don't mean flat as in each frequency is as loud as the next
unless my ears really are like that which would be freaky but I haven't checked.


----------



## FranQL

Black-Wolf said:


> Well, there is a problem with the concept itself of flat line...what do you mean by it?
> A real flat line would seem extremely unatural as we don't ear each frequency equally loud. (Our ear best ear from about 500hz to 4khz, in the vocal range)
> From an accoustic point of view, a perfectly flatline would be terribly honky and would seem purely medium oriented: no lows, no highs...
> 
> ...


BRAVO


----------



## ValSuki

silverszi said:


> Basically
> pinna gain sounds bad to me, that 3khz boost hurts my ears.
> I don't mean flat as in each frequency is as loud as the next
> unless my ears really are like that which would be freaky but I haven't checked.


Honestly, could be that you are treble sensitive and need a darker, less vibrant bud. And by vibrant I mean with that 3k boost dampened in a way that becomes less harsh on your ears. I know a few people who are just like the way you have described yours, but you really do not want a completely flat earbud. It will not sound good...ever. But a darker earbud, being bass elevation, reduced mids and treble may just be what you are looking for!


----------



## ShaneyMac

mt877 said:


> For the folks looking for smaller size buds, you can't go wrong with these... a fun cable replacement and they sound great as well.
> No special tuning needed, the buds have been tuned well from the original manufacturer. Everything bought from AE.
> 
> Search results for "Docomo pk2" in the Earbuds Round-Up thread.
> ...


Fun job indeed! Well done!

My recabled Nokia HDD-1 PK1 150Ω


----------



## syazwaned

WoodyLuvr said:


> LOL! @syazwaned beat me to it! LBBs is super neutral and quite flat for an earbud and plays well with EQ.
> 
> Sounds like you are super sensitive to high mids and low highs even more than I... maybe you should think about going to the dark side. Shozy BK Stardust is fairly flat as well but leans to the dark/warm side of things and is low impedance.
> 
> ...


Haha, now I have painfully sold my LBBs to my dear friend. I am saving money up for Rikubuds Grand Archer 1 by @RikudouGoku. Hopes it does sound good. I also contemplating between Yinman 600 ohm and Grand Berserker II, not sure how does both differs in term of sound, but I will make my decision once I get my Grand Archer in few months.


----------



## FranQL (Aug 13, 2022)

syazwaned said:


> Haha, now I have painfully sold my LBBs to my dear friend. I am saving money up for Rikubuds Grand Archer 1 by @RikudouGoku. Hopes it does sound good. I also contemplating between Yinman 600 ohm and Grand Berserker II, not sure how does both differs in term of sound, but I will make my decision once I get my Grand Archer in few months.



you can also try K64

https://a.aliexpress.com/_vVEk9F


----------



## cod6793

samandhi said:


> So far, all of mine fit like this for me except the Maria II (which... duh they are almost the size of overear hehe), and the chaconne (again about the size of short swords).  But on the other hand, all of mine are not normal shaped except the DUNU Alpha 1 (which are MX500 like, though not exact). And the bell NiceHCK EB2S, which also fit very stable. I find the Smabat and Yincrow RW2000 and RW3000 actually fit and stay really well for my ears... Figures! . The Smabat ST10S actually fit me the best though, probably because they are overear, and seem smaller than others. I must have universal ears, now that I am thinking about it.


What do you consider an upgrade to eb2s? I think the tone and timbre are excellent. I have a FF3 here and I still prefer the eb2s balance. For me it lacks a little more treble in ff3.


----------



## mt877

ShaneyMac said:


> Fun job indeed! Well done!
> 
> My recabled Nokia HDD-1 PK1 150Ω


Nice! That touch of silver in the shell and white cable choice add to the overall visual appeal. I'm sure they sound great.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Shozy BK First Impressions and a Question:

The BKs have a big, warm presentation. The bass is nice and meaty and keeps up with a pretty deep, detailed sound even on busier funk, metal, or hardcore tracks. It seems to me that the mids are a bit uneven with the upper mids being noticeably more forward than the lower mids. I have more listening to do before I decide how this sits with me and if it's an asset, just a neutral property, or detrimental to the overall soundscape and reproduction. The highs are well extended, but reasonably well tamed and they give you plenty of air and quite a bit of detail. Overall the tuning has a warm, "analog" feel to it so far except on tracks where that upper mid emphasis takes over a bit making the warmth disappear to a considerable degree.

Now for my question: I have only really paid attention to the imaging on a couple tracks so far, but does the imaging seem a bit soft to anybody else? When I listen they imaging cues are there, but they aren't as precise as I would normally expect for an earbud with this level of detail. Like I said, I have only made this observation on a couple of tracks thus far so I'm not sure if it's a consistent thing or just something I'm hearing at the moment, on certain tracks, or because of fit or source so I'll have to play around with them a bit.


So far, the Shozy BKs are a pleasant, warm, laid back listen most of the time and it's pretty easy to see why they appeal to so many people. I do have a bit of a gripe with them only coming with a case and single pair of donut foams as accessories at this price, but, then again, I do have bags and bags of foams already so maybe they're doing me a favor...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

FranQL said:


> I haven't heard pre-made qian, but one thing I do know, and that is that the driver used in it is really good if you appreciate the mid-high focused sound, and it sounds perfectly good for the price, so you might not like it. Whether they are tight, or  they arent your cup of tea, which is a different thing. A €3 VIDO is also quite good (talking about its X6 yincrow) but I haven't detected any Pinna gain on it, maybe I missed it or I'm wrong, a great expert on this topic is @captione .
> 
> Sometimes the prejudices of more expensive is better influence us in our criteria, sometimes we pay €180 for a bud that has exactly the same driver (and adjustment sometimes) that we find in a bud between €10 and €20, and the evaluations are so different that it makes me think about how much subjectivity there is in this hobby.


Not to go off topic again, but it's been too long since I gave The Gunslinger a read. The quote in your sig and the gunslinger profile pic has me hunting through my paperback shelves for it as we speak. I could use some good reading material for relaxation and recuperation time. Thanks for the unwitting recommendation, my friend!


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Shozy BK First Impressions and a Question:
> 
> The BKs have a big, warm presentation. The bass is nice and meaty and keeps up with a pretty deep, detailed sound even on busier funk, metal, or hardcore tracks. It seems to me that the mids are a bit uneven with the upper mids being noticeably more forward than the lower mids. I have more listening to do before I decide how this sits with me and if it's an asset, just a neutral property, or detrimental to the overall soundscape and reproduction. The highs are well extended, but reasonably well tamed and they give you plenty of air and quite a bit of detail. Overall the tuning has a warm, "analog" feel to it so far except on tracks where that upper mid emphasis takes over a bit making the warmth disappear to a considerable degree.
> 
> ...


The foams situation with Shozy is a mixed bag. My BK's are 4.4mm balanced, so cost a little more than 3.5SE version. They also came with 3 sets of donuts and full foams. Maybe because of the extra cost of the 4.4mm balanced version?

You need to evaluate them with full foams on, you'll get a different perspective.


----------



## FranQL

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Not to go off topic again, but it's been too long since I gave The Gunslinger a read. The quote in your sig and the gunslinger profile pic has me hunting through my paperback shelves for it as we speak. I could use some good reading material for relaxation and recuperation time. Thanks for the unwitting recommendation, my friend!



that's a great idea, I join, I will reread the entire saga. What a great book, what a great mind of its author.


----------



## silverszi (Aug 13, 2022)

ValSuki said:


> Honestly, could be that you are treble sensitive and need a darker, less vibrant bud. And by vibrant I mean with that 3k boost dampened in a way that becomes less harsh on your ears. I know a few people who are just like the way you have described yours, but you really do not want a completely flat earbud. It will not sound good...ever. But a darker earbud, being bass elevation, reduced mids and treble may just be what you are looking for!


Well yeah Im looking for that basically but what makes you think flat can't sound good.
Im using -12dB peaking filters on that region at current but I still compensate for the treble dropoff with a high shelf of about 6dB.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> The foams situation with Shozy is a mixed bag. My BK's are 4.4mm balanced, so cost a little more than 3.5SE version. They also came with 3 sets of donuts and full foams. Maybe because of the extra cost of the 4.4mm balanced version?
> 
> You need to evaluate them with full foams on, you'll get a different perspective.


I bought the 4.4mm version as well. Maybe they vary what they put in just to make it fun lol! You know? So that you never know what you're getting until you open it up.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

FranQL said:


> that's a great idea, I join, I will reread the entire saga. What a great book, what a great mind of its author.


The funny thing is, I mostly lean towards the classics and generally stay away from modern paperback page-turners, but occasionally I will read one that catches my attention for one reason or another. The Gunslinger came up as a topic of conversation with a friend a long time ago and the rest is history.


----------



## silverszi

ValSuki said:


> Honestly, could be that you are treble sensitive and need a darker, less vibrant bud. And by vibrant I mean with that 3k boost dampened in a way that becomes less harsh on your ears. I know a few people who are just like the way you have described yours, but you really do not want a completely flat earbud. It will not sound good...ever. But a darker earbud, being bass elevation, reduced mids and treble may just be what you are looking for!


This is an approximation of what I am listening to right now (I removed the peak caused by the measurement rig but do not actually use that in my eq)
The only problem with this is not due to the tonality but the fact that the blon is the only thing with enough bass to allow me to do this.


----------



## assassin10000

silverszi said:


> This is an approximation of what I am listening to right now (I removed the peak caused by the measurement rig but do not actually use that in my eq)
> The only problem with this is not due to the tonality but the fact that the blon is the only thing with enough bass to allow me to do this.


The only thing that has come close to that, was a diy bud I made a long time ago.


That well extended sub-bass with little to no drop off is not easy for most drivers to achieve.


----------



## Stevehamny (Aug 13, 2022)

syazwaned said:


> Haha, now I have painfully sold my LBBs to my dear friend. I am saving money up for Rikubuds Grand Archer 1 by @RikudouGoku. Hopes it does sound good. I also contemplating between Yinman 600 ohm and Grand Berserker II, not sure how does both differs in term of sound, but I will make my decision once I get my Grand Archer in few months.


I have both the LBBS and the Grand Archer 1, and wrote about both here: https://forum.hifiguides.com/t/rikudougokus-database-iems-earbuds-headphones-ranking-list/13552/7608

For my music, it was an absolute step up, but I am very much oriented toward acoustic instrumental, especially classical and jazz. Not much low end, all about the timbre and detail! (EDIT: And soundstage!)


----------



## Ronion

ShaneyMac said:


> Fun job indeed! Well done!
> 
> My recabled Nokia HDD-1 PK1 150Ω


That’s awesome!  I like that particular cable a lot.


----------



## silverszi

assassin10000 said:


> The only thing that has come close to that, was a diy bud I made a long time ago.


one of a kind?


----------



## Ronion (Aug 13, 2022)

Black-Wolf said:


> Well, there is a problem with the concept itself of flat line...what do you mean by it?
> A real flat line would seem extremely unatural as we don't ear each frequency equally loud. (Our ear best ear from about 500hz to 4khz, in the vocal range)
> From an accoustic point of view, a perfectly flatline would be terribly honky and would seem purely medium oriented: no lows, no highs...
> 
> ...


None of those curves make any real sense however and it’s shocking that this far in the game that it is obviously true.  When you look at how they were derived it’s not shocking they’re wrong. The Harman is only preferable over a really lousy curve that they had derived.  Besides all that, some inherent driver secondary characteristics are going to play a role in the whole thing.  In any case, I’d look more at what the newer IEM responses for an approximate neutral(ish) and ‘preferred’ both.  It should have a bass boost and a pinna gain for sure.  Exactly how much is yet to be determined.  The only reasons those curves are different is because they are all wrong.  With the way things are, there literally CAN’T be a right.


----------



## Ronion

Ronion said:


> That is a common observation, but I don’t think you can use that as evidence for your sanity.


As evidence of sanity, I think you should post something like “I’ve bought one set and one set only of earbuds this year”.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

silverszi said:


> This is an approximation of what I am listening to right now (I removed the peak caused by the measurement rig but do not actually use that in my eq)
> The only problem with this is not due to the tonality but the fact that the blon is the only thing with enough bass to allow me to do this.


Have you asked any of the DIY bud makers on here or other corners of the internet if they can put something together that really limits the pinna gain and/or approximates this kind of flat line tuning? I think getting a flat graph like this out of a stock earbud would be very difficult and probably require quite a bit of testing to get right so that might be prohibively expensive for you and take too much time for them for just a pair or two to sell to you. However, creating a bud that has mild pinna gain and suits you pretty well should be a fairly achievable goal by an experienced tuner/DIYer I would think.

If I were you I would at least approach some of the DIYers you trust/prefer and explain the situation and what you're looking for and see if any of them can put something together for you. Theres really nothing to lose, IMO. Worst that happens is they say they can't help you.


----------



## silverszi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Have you asked any of the DIY bud makers on here or other corners of the internet if they can put something together that really limits the pinna gain and/or approximates this kind of flat line tuning? I think getting a flat graph like this out of a stock earbud would be very difficult and probably require quite a bit of testing to get right so that might be prohibively expensive for you and take too much time for them for just a pair or two to sell to you. However, creating a bud that has mild pinna gain and suits you pretty well should be a fairly achievable goal by an experienced tuner/DIYer I would think.
> 
> If I were you I would at least approach some of the DIYers you trust/prefer and explain the situation and what you're looking for and see if any of them can put something together for you. Theres really nothing to lose, IMO. Worst that happens is they say they can't help you.


I mean if there's one I travel to I'd love to try it
when I have money
that reminds me I need to sell my stuff again.


----------



## jeejack

o0genesis0o said:


> I just look for something way above my current power outputs. Tbh, I am not quite convinced that more power is needed for most IEMs, but I can’t say for sure unless I check myself, as my E5000 indeed sounds different (technical wise) moving from apple dongle to portable amp. Still, I need something to drive 300 ohms earbuds that I will build in the future.
> 
> Budget wise, I am never excited about buying new source   I did want to buy Fiio DAP bricks though.


BTR5 drive well all my high impedance buds. Right now I use it with 300 DLC drivers.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

silverszi said:


> I mean if there's one I travel to I'd love to try it
> when I have money
> that reminds me I need to sell my stuff again.


You could just try shooting them a message or two and seeing what they say.


----------



## silverszi

Ronion said:


> None of those curves make any real sense however and it’s shocking that this far in the game that it is obviously true.  When you look at how they were derived it’s not shocking they’re wrong. The Harman is only preferable over a really lousy curve that they had derived.  Besides all that, some inherent driver secondary characteristics are going to play a role in the whole thing.  In any case, I’d look more at what the newer IEM responses for an approximate neutral(ish) and ‘preferred’ both.  It should have a bass boost and a pinna gain for sure.  Exactly how much is yet to be determined.  The only reasons those curves are different is because they are all wrong.  With the way things are, there literally CAN’T be a right.


Crin would disagree but then again I bought er2se on his recommendation and I cannot stand pinna gain at all
also wouldnt pinna gain ONLY affect sound coming from certain directions and all of them differently. From my experience I cannot understand why use pinna gain at all.


----------



## silverszi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> You could just try shooting them a message or two and seeing what they say.


I don't know any DIYers, so I don't know any who live in or near the UK.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

jeejack said:


> BTR5 drive well all my high impedance buds. Right now I use it with 300 DLC drivers.


Sensitivity matter a lot as well. With earbuds I find that it matters as much if not more than impedance in some situations  A 300ohm driver with relatively high sensitivity ratings can still be fairly easy to drive, but when you couple that 300ohm impedance with a lower sensitivity rating the power requirements to adequately drive it increases quite a bit.


----------



## FranQL (Aug 13, 2022)

silverszi said:


> This is an approximation of what I am listening to right now (I removed the peak caused by the measurement rig but do not actually use that in my eq)
> The only problem with this is not due to the tonality but the fact that the blon is the only thing with enough bass to allow me to do this.


K64


----------



## JAnonymous5150

silverszi said:


> I don't know any DIYers, so I don't know any who live in or near the UK.


I got you. I have only been around here for a short time, but RikudouGoku, gtx78, and irv003 were all recimmended to me. I ordered a pair from Riku and will be doing the same from the others in time, but it might be worth sending a PM to them with a brief explanation of what you're looking for to see if they can help. I can't speak for them and I don't know how much customized work any one of them would be down to take on, but it can't hurt to try, right?


----------



## silverszi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I got you. I have only been around here for a short time, but RikudouGoku, gtx78, and irv003 were all recimmended to me. I ordered a pair from Riku and will be doing the same from the others in time, but it might be worth sending a PM to them with a brief explanation of what you're looking for to see if they can help. I can't speak for them and I don't know how much customized work any one of them would be down to take on, but it can't hurt to try, right?


it can hurt my wallet
i genuinely have crap in terms of money right now
and more importantly I am failing to get more and do not want to touch the rest.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 13, 2022)

silverszi said:


> it can hurt my wallet
> i genuinely have crap in terms of money right now
> and more importantly I am failing to get more and do not want to touch the rest.


I feel you. Taking care of finances definitely comes before earbud acquisition, for sure!

Edit: Had to correct my spelling because they're earbuds not "eatbuds"


----------



## assassin10000

silverszi said:


> one of a kind?


I achieved it in the process of testing various tuning methods.

I prefer 8-10db of pinna gain, so it was changed.


----------



## jeejack (Aug 13, 2022)

silverszi said:


> it can hurt my wallet
> i genuinely have crap in terms of money right now
> and more importantly I am failing to get more and do not want to touch the rest.


Making your own buds doesn't hurt your wallet. 😉 Some buds with really good 32 ohm drivers that we all use with a nice cable cost no more than $10


----------



## silverszi (Aug 13, 2022)

jeejack said:


> Making your own buds doesn't hurt your wallet. 😉 Some buds with really good 32 ohm drivers that we all use with a nice cable cost no more than $10


well
making my own probably won't
except for getting soldering equipment and having to do it multiple times to get a good enough response to eq
not to mention
proper extension which really requires multiple drivers,
and having no experience in any of that.
plus sourcing it all
i was diying a keyboard and i kinda just gave up on it too.


----------



## jeejack

silverszi said:


> well
> making my own probably won't
> except for getting soldering equipment and having to do it multiple times to get a good enough response to eq
> not to mention
> ...


Go to DIY earbuds thread. You have there anything you want


----------



## jeejack

@silverszi 10$ earbud


----------



## silverszi

jeejack said:


> @silverszi 10$ earbud


oh damn
the real question is does it have pinna gain
at all
im dying on this hill


----------



## JAnonymous5150

silverszi said:


> oh damn
> the real question is does it have pinna gain
> at all
> im dying on this hill


LOL


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Have you asked any of the DIY bud makers on here or other corners of the internet if they can put something together that really limits the pinna gain and/or approximates this kind of flat line tuning? I think getting a flat graph like this out of a stock earbud would be very difficult and probably require quite a bit of testing to get right so that might be prohibively expensive for you and take too much time for them for just a pair or two to sell to you. However, creating a bud that has mild pinna gain and suits you pretty well should be a fairly achievable goal by an experienced tuner/DIYer I would think.
> 
> If I were you I would at least approach some of the DIYers you trust/prefer and explain the situation and what you're looking for and see if any of them can put something together for you. Theres really nothing to lose, IMO. Worst that happens is they say they can't help you.


I don’t know if any that have a good enough measurement rig to really say for certain.  It would have to be on their ‘experience’ of what that sounds like.


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I bought the 4.4mm version as well. Maybe they vary what they put in just to make it fun lol! You know? So that you never know what you're getting until you open it up.


Wow, you got a raw deal then... now everyone will be after me because I got the foams that they were supposed to get from Shozy.


----------



## Ronion

silverszi said:


> well
> making my own probably won't
> except for getting soldering equipment and having to do it multiple times to get a good enough response to eq
> not to mention
> ...


Tuning a decent driver to sound decent is as easy as falling off a bike.  Most of the buds you’ve heard or are likely to buy have no fancy tuning applied.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Yincrow RW-3K first Impressions: I bought this bud because I got to use the RW-2K for a couple days and I really liked it so I figured I would order the RW-3K and maybe decide between the two for a keeper or something like that. I have to say, I like the RW-3K even more than its little bro/predecessor. It still has a touch of the warmth from the 2K, but it dials down the mids, tightens up the bass and increases the low end presence (still not a bassy bud and I want to make that clear so no one gets the wrong impression), and extends the treble giving the sound an clean and detailed finish. 

When I listen to the RW-3K it comes across as being very detailed and quite musical at the same time so the details are there, but not thrown in your face like you find in some buds. Personally, I think that's been a very enjoyable overall feel. These are just early impressions and subject to change, but so far the RW-3000s are pretty impressive! 

Next in the batter's box: The Ostry KC08T...the dark horse 11th hour random inclusion in the order!


----------



## mt877

silverszi said:


> I don't know any DIYers, so I don't know any who live in or near the UK.


Maybe reach out to @ValSuki? He's in the UK.


----------



## Ronion

silverszi said:


> Crin would disagree but then again I bought er2se on his recommendation and I cannot stand pinna gain at all
> also wouldnt pinna gain ONLY affect sound coming from certain directions and all of them differently. From my experience I cannot understand why use pinna gain at all.


Crin has his own target that differs from all others.  I’m not sure he would disagree with anything I said even though it wasn’t very eloquent, but even if he did disagree it wouldn’t make him right or wrong any more than it would Harman or Beyer or Etymotic.  They all have different targets.  They can’t all be right and when you read about how those targets were arrived at, none of them make much sense logically.  I’m always surprised when people argue against this.  It’s supposed to be science, yet we discuss it like it’s religion.  Anyway, I won’t speak for Crin.  His opinion really wouldn’t mean much to me anyway.  Even he doesn’t tune to his target.  In any case, until control rooms are done exactly the same, a target can’t be right.  There needs to be a target for a target to be correct… nothing else makes much sense.  Even then, none of those targets were approached in a way that makes much sense for how we listen to stereo music and thus Harlan’s need to call it a preference curve.  If you don’t understand this, you’ve got a lot of reading to do.  After that, we can discuss in detail.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Aug 13, 2022)

silverszi said:


> From my experience I cannot understand why use pinna gain at all.



My two cents: ear gain are not there for torture or a cash grab invention of someone and then copied by others. There are a few companies doing the same type of experiment (“good” speaker in a “good” room, heard by an artificial HATS) and they all come to the same concept independently, with slight variations:

Harman: 12db ear gain at 3k, lots of subbass, no midbass, dip at 250hz to separate the big bass from the rest.
Moondrop VDSF target: sometimes it looks like etymotic target, sometimes it look like Harman. I remember the CEO explained that at first, he thinks transparent sound like Etymotic is a good idea, and then he works with real musicians and he changed his mind, thus we have multiple version of the target. Anyhow, both have ear gain at 3k, around 10db.
Final Audio E series research: gentle ear gain around 7db at 3k, no distinct bass shelf for warm and “big” sound
Etymotic diffuse field target: peaking at 3k like Harman but some how even harsher. Flat line bass, which I think is not a right decision.
Symphonium: the tuner (Toranku) gradually refined the harman target over many versions, creating arguably one of the best tuned IEMs out there (the Helios)
64 Audio: the “golden ear” of its founder + experience tuning for industry = house sound curve that is essentially Harman with dip at 1k, 3k, and massive boost at 15k.
Tanchjim: does their own experiment for the best spatial accuracy, comes up with something similar to Harman, but shifted the peak to 2k.

The only person / company that tries to achieve flat line from 20 to 20000 is Jerry Harvey. I don’t know. To me his IEMs sound pretty fuzzy and strange. But can’t argue with that $4000 price tag  

I don’t think ear buds disobey that physic either. They don’t activate the pinna as much as headphones, and even headphones need ear gain.

Ear gain has a lot to do with soundstage depth, so let me know if you want me rambling on


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> Maybe reach out to @ValSuki? He's in the UK.


P.S. Random question and off topic, but is that a minidisc player in your profile pic? I haven't seen a minidisc player in a minute. Do they still make those? I owned one for about a year at one point, but never really got into it. I always felt like I never gave the mds a fair shake lol! Is there still a sizeable user base despite the widespread availability of mp3 players/iPods/DAPs? If it's not a minidisc player just ignore my idiocy and carry on like you didn't see this...


----------



## gordonli (Aug 13, 2022)

ttorbic said:


> This is related to some of the recent posts on sources for earbuds:
> I got myself an IKKO ITX-01 for work: https://www.ikkoaudio.com/products/itx01-docking-station. Boy this thing is loud, even though the specs state a fairly modest power output (64mW @ 32 Ohms). It also has a high noise floor. I have to set my laptop volume to the lowest, set Spotify/Apple Music to 50%, and I can then listen to my Rikubuds Alter Rider 1. Any idea what's behind this? Compare this to to my other source, ifi Zen DAC: I can comfortably have laptop & music player volumes at 100%, then adjust volume with the analog pot at 8-9 o'clock, even though the Zen DAC's output in SE is more than twice than that of ITX-01. I'm not saying it sounds great, more than I'm confused why it's seemingly so loud compared to other sources?
> 
> P.S. I'm also driving the Serratus at 20% laptop, 100% Spotify volume, and it's at my normal listening volume already??


64mW into 32 ohm is 118 dB.  that is more than enough power to "scale" most earbuds. whether that is clean & audibly distortionless amplification is another matter.

https://www.headphonesty.com/headph...ic2Vuc2l0aXZpdHlNZWFzdXJlbWVudCI6IndhdHQifQ==

https://www.gcaudio.com/tips-tricks/decibel-loudness-comparison-chart/

edit: at 100db/1mW sensitivity. I think those drivers are around there
edit: also removed noise floor glossary link. I apologise you are using the term correctly, that dongle is putting out full power without any attenuation


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> The only person / company that tries to achieve flat line from 20 to 20000 is Jerry Harvey. I don’t know. To me his IEMs sound pretty fuzzy and strange. But can’t argue with that $4000 price tag


I used to use JH Audio CIEMs for a minute as my live monitoring set before I switched to Audio64 and while I found them to be okay for live monitoring (I was essentially getting them for free so I wasn't looking to complain lol) i thought they were terrible for listening to music enjoyably. I don't care what the price tag says, those things aren't worth $4k, IMO.


----------



## gordonli

Do we have a Pinna gain gang? I am in it if we have one!  Anyway, IMO there should be some pinna gain, but maybe some of these buds go too far. IMO again, the LBBS has a touch too much (my treated speaker setup do not gain like that) but probably within the realm of neutral


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I don't care what the price tag says, those things aren't worth $4k, IMO.



I should have added “sarcasm” to my remark   . You know the situation is bad when the store staffs of a hifi store is not enthusiastic to promote an expensive pair of IEM. The ones at my store are crazy about Fiio and Campfire though.


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> P.S. Random question and off topic, but is that a minidisc player in your profile pic? I haven't seen a minidisc player in a minute. Do they still make those? I owned one for about a year at one point, but never really got into it. I always felt like I never gave the mds a fair shake lol! Is there still a sizeable user base despite the widespread availability of mp3 players/iPods/DAPs? If it's not a minidisc player just ignore my idiocy and carry on like you didn't see this...


Off topic discussion:

Yep, sure is. It's a Sharp mt877... now where did I get my Nym from I wonder...? Minidisc is gone but not forgotten. I used that mt877 to record a couple local live bands back in the day. I wasn't allowed to tap the board for the clean audio feed, so I would setup a small tripod with stereo mic and record in the open. The bar owners didn't care as long as the bands were cool with it. The bands loved it because I would make a CD of their performance and they could critique how they played. There were plenty of "live" mistakes which the audience never caught, but the capture caught it plain as day. The one nice feature of the mt877 was that you could set the record level on the fly to avoid distortion. I still have recordings of a local Beatles band and I enjoy playing their recordings through the good old mt877 from time to time. It really brings back good memories of those live performances. People joking and laughing, beer bottles crashing into the trash cans and general barroom noise. Great stuff. Thanks for asking about the player. Made my day!


----------



## syazwaned

Stevehamny said:


> I have both the LBBS and the Grand Archer 1, and wrote about both here: https://forum.hifiguides.com/t/rikudougokus-database-iems-earbuds-headphones-ranking-list/13552/7608
> 
> For my music, it was an absolute step up, but I am very much oriented toward acoustic instrumental, especially classical and jazz. Not much low end, all about the timbre and detail! (EDIT: And soundstage!)


Whoa, this is a review. I primarily used my Chaconne and LBBs for acoustics live song. Love it, but realize it need some bass and thicker timbre. From your review, seems that I found that from Grand Archer 1.  


JAnonymous5150 said:


> I feel you. Taking care of finances definitely comes before earbud acquisition, for sure!
> 
> Edit: Had to correct my spelling because they're earbuds not "eatbuds"


Eatbuds. That a weird name for breakfast


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> I should have added “sarcasm” to my remark   . You know the situation is bad when the store staffs of a hifi store is not enthusiastic to promote an expensive pair of IEM. The ones at my store are crazy about Fiio and Campfire though.


I freakin' love my Andros! As for JH... let me just say that I have been much more vocal in my real life about using Audio64 when fellow musicians and performers ask.


----------



## ValSuki

silverszi said:


> Well yeah Im looking for that basically but what makes you think flat can't sound good.
> Im using -12dB peaking filters on that region at current but I still compensate for the treble dropoff with a high shelf of about 6dB.


The reason I say it cannot sound good is because in order to get that pure flat line in sound for a FR, you will be sacrificing a lot of things in order to get that level of tonality. For example, lots of different forms of dampening and tuning techniques would need to be done in order to get that flat sound, and its also a VERY difficult thing to achieve in a bud. Techs would be ruined, and having a same level of noise for all instruments sounds nice on paper, but when put into reality, it doesnt sound natural and instrumental seperation becomes this one big mess. A darker sound, would be much easier, better to tune and sound just more suitable is something I would even vouch for, despite having a distaste to dark sounds.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> Off topic discussion:
> 
> Yep, sure is. It's a Sharp mt877... now where did I get my Nym from I wonder...? Minidisc is gone but not forgotten. I used that mt877 to record a couple local live bands back in the day. I wasn't allowed to tap the board for the clean audio feed, so I would setup a small tripod with stereo mic and record in the open. The bar owners didn't care as long as the bands were cool with it. The bands loved it because I would make a CD of their performance and they could critique how they played. There were plenty of "live" mistakes which the audience never caught, but the capture caught it plain as day. The one nice feature of the mt877 was that you could set the record level on the fly to avoid distortion. I still have recordings of a local Beatles band and I enjoy playing their recordings through the good old mt877 from time to time. It really brings back good memories of those live performances. People joking and laughing, beer bottles crashing into the trash cans and general barroom noise. Great stuff. Thanks for asking about the player. Made my day!


I was just looking and I actually still have maybe 15 or so minidiscs! If I was looking to grab a decent player what models should I look at (obviously starting with the Sharp MT877 ofc)?

As for thanking me for asking about your player, I'm glad my curiosity worked both ways this time!


----------



## yaps66

JAnonymous5150 said:


> gtx78


tgx78


----------



## yaps66

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Yincrow RW-3K first Impressions: I bought this bud because I got to use the RW-2K for a couple days and I really liked it so I figured I would order the RW-3K and maybe decide between the two for a keeper or something like that. I have to say, I like the RW-3K even more than its little bro/predecessor. It still has a touch of the warmth from the 2K, but it dials down the mids, tightens up the bass and increases the low end presence (still not a bassy bud and I want to make that clear so no one gets the wrong impression), and extends the treble giving the sound an clean and detailed finish.
> 
> When I listen to the RW-3K it comes across as being very detailed and quite musical at the same time so the details are there, but not thrown in your face like you find in some buds. Personally, I think that's been a very enjoyable overall feel. These are just early impressions and subject to change, but so far the RW-3000s are pretty impressive!
> 
> Next in the batter's box: The Ostry KC08T...the dark horse 11th hour random inclusion in the order!


Nice impressions and comparison with RW-2K. RW-3K now on my radar!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

yaps66 said:


> tgx78


My bad lol! I my thumbs are dyslexic...


----------



## yaps66

mt877 said:


> Off topic discussion:
> 
> Yep, sure is. It's a Sharp mt877... now where did I get my Nym from I wonder...? Minidisc is gone but not forgotten. I used that mt877 to record a couple local live bands back in the day. I wasn't allowed to tap the board for the clean audio feed, so I would setup a small tripod with stereo mic and record in the open. The bar owners didn't care as long as the bands were cool with it. The bands loved it because I would make a CD of their performance and they could critique how they played. There were plenty of "live" mistakes which the audience never caught, but the capture caught it plain as day. The one nice feature of the mt877 was that you could set the record level on the fly to avoid distortion. I still have recordings of a local Beatles band and I enjoy playing their recordings through the good old mt877 from time to time. It really brings back good memories of those live performances. People joking and laughing, beer bottles crashing into the trash cans and general barroom noise. Great stuff. Thanks for asking about the player. Made my day!


Nice! Those are great memories right there and I got some vicarious vibes! Thanks!


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 13, 2022)

Not that anyone was asking for this, but I have had a great day so far listening to some great, highly regarded/recommended buds and I am gonna do more listening, but I switched to my FF3s since they are what I have been listening to the most lately and I wanted to take a break from analyzing new sounds for a minute. The crazy thing is that despite being less expensive than every other earbud I have listened to today (aside from the TRN EMA), they have such a massive and rich sound that they easily compete with and, IMO surpass, many of their significantly more expensive peers and competitors. These FF3s are no freakin' joke!


----------



## samandhi

yaps66 said:


> Nice impressions and comparison with RW-2K. RW-3K now on my radar!


They probably SHOULD be on your radar... 

I would say that if the RW2000 are consumer tuned (which they aren't really, just an analogy), the RW3000 are the audiophile tuning of the same bud. (not sure why I couldn't find this wording before, but even the long version comes to the same ending).

I still grab the RW2000 first though when wanting an all-rounder. The explanation for that involves ALL types of music, and the RW3000 can be a bit harsh on some types of music (to my ears). Otherwise, the RW3000 is certainly more refined in most ways (though I DO find a bit more perceived sub bass on the RW2000). 

Having said that, I think your assessment earlier was on point. They are both worthy of owning side-by-side for their differences, which aren't small. Physically (BTW) they are almost identical (other than colors), though I think the RW3000 ARE a bit smaller IIRC.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

yaps66 said:


> Nice impressions and comparison with RW-2K. RW-3K now on my radar!


They should be on anyone's radar who's lookin' to try some of the best buds out there because that's what the RW-3K are!


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Not that anyone was asking for this, but I have ahd a great day so far listening to some great, highly regarded/recommended buds and I am gonna do more listening, but I switched to my FF3s since they are what I have been listening to the most lately and I wanted to take a break from analyzing new sounds for a minute. The crazy thing is that despite being less expensive than every other earbud I have listened to today (aside from the TRN EMA), they have such a massive and rich sound that they easily compete with and, IMO surpass, many of their significantly more expensive peers and competitors. These FF3s are no freakin' joke!


This is probably why I have them on their way to go along with the others in my camp.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on all your new toys. I can't really do the same, because I opted to order multiple head gear of differing type and wouldn't be appropriate to share in here. Having said that, in short, the Hook-X are turning out to be end game on the planar IEM front (in case anyone is interested), though they require much power to sound that good. 

Now that you are back with the FF3, how would you compare the RW2000 and RW3000 with the FF3? I realize you haven't had much time with them all, but I was just curious to get a sneak-peak of what I am in for when mine arrive (which BTW, they just left China WOOT). 

Also, in case it makes any sense to share for preferences purposes here are my current buds in camp (in no certain order):


Yincrow RW2000
Yincrow RW3000
New Yinman 2.0 600
Smabat ST10S Black and Gold (150 ohm TI)
Smabat M2s Pro (w/stock 40 ohm TI, 32ohm Bio, Super One 100 ohm Bio, and 40 ohm LCP )
Rose Technics Maria II
DUNU Alpha 1
NiceHCK EB2S
Apple Classic earbuds (3rd Gen)
Moondrop Chaconne
I find all of them to be fantastic, and all of them have a different signature so as to complement each other; other than the DUNU and Maria II (which are very similar), and the EB2S and M2S Pro Stock driver (also very similar to my ears).


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I was just looking and I actually still have maybe 15 or so minidiscs! If I was looking to grab a decent player what models should I look at (obviously starting with the Sharp MT877 ofc)?
> 
> As for thanking me for asking about your player, I'm glad my curiosity worked both ways this time!


I can't say I have a lot of knowledge about the various models out there. The 2 that I have are the Sharp mt877 and the very last pinnacle minidisc player,  the Sony MZ-RH1. The problem with most old tech is finding batteries. Fortunately replacement Ni-MH replacement batteries are still available for the Sharp, but you have to be sure to get a player with the charging base and wall wort power supply. The Sharp also has an AA battery adapter which can be used as a backup power source or to extend play / record time in combination with the Ni-MH battery.

When the MD format was coming to a close due to CD audio and DAT recorders coming into vogue, Sony made a last heroic effort and released the pinnacle MZ-RH1 player / recorder and of course I had to get one even if it was the most expensive and last MD player to be produced. Skip to the present... You can't get batteries for this player anymore, but no fear I have a DIY solution posted on head-fi for a replacement battery build for this wonderful player.

Since the Sharp mt877 and the Sony MZ-RH1 MD players are the only ones I have experience with, they'll be my recommendations too.

Now to bring this post back on topic...

Here's the buds that came supplied with the Sharp mt877. Unfortunately the voicecoil of the right side is open. I thought it was the cable, but I measured the voicecoil directly and it was open. I have a couple different 32 ohm drivers on order and will try to get these buds running again, well at least reuse the shells and upgrade the cable.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> They should be on anyone's radar who's lookin' to try some of the best buds out there because that's what the RW-3K are!



Just checked the price. I imagine Fiio is coming after this one with the upcoming FF5.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Just checked the price. I imagine Fiio is coming after this one with the upcoming FF5.


Good! Healthy competition between manufacturers usually benefits the customer IMO.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 14, 2022)

mt877 said:


> I can't say I have a lot of knowledge about the various models out there. The 2 that I have are the Sharp mt877 and the very last pinnacle minidisc player,  the Sony MZ-RH1. The problem with most old tech is finding batteries. Fortunately replacement Ni-MH replacement batteries are still available for the Sharp, but you have to be sure to get a player with the charging base and wall wort power supply. The Sharp also has an AA battery adapter which can be used as a backup power source or to extend play / record time in combination with the Ni-MH battery.
> 
> When the MD format was coming to a close due to CD audio and DAT recorders coming into vogue, Sony made a last heroic effort and released the pinnacle MZ-RH1 player / recorder and of course I had to get one even if it was the most expensive and last MD player to be produced. Skip to the present... You can't get batteries for this player anymore, but no fear I have a DIY solution posted on head-fi for a replacement battery build for this wonderful player.
> 
> ...


*2000 - Sharp HP-MD70; 16 32Ω

Edit: Corrected as I had the wrong impedance value entered for the Sharp MD.*


----------



## mt877 (Aug 13, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> *2000 - Sharp HP-MD70; 16Ω*


I just measured them again to be sure, 32 ohm. Left side that is, the right side is open. They're 14.8mm drivers.


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> *2000 - Sharp HP-MD70; 16Ω*


Question: Did you recognize those just by sight, or did you have to look it up in your (apparently) endless notes?


----------



## tgx78

Tuning is being finalized. 

Model name: Panorama Ridge 
Driver: Planar magnetic 
Cable termination: 4.4mm


----------



## samandhi

tgx78 said:


> Tuning is being finalized.
> 
> Model name: Panorama Ridge
> Driver: Planar magnetic
> Cable termination: 4.4mm


OH, you are teasing me right? Are these a "product" or are they a one-off?


----------



## tgx78

samandhi said:


> OH, you are teasing me right? Are these a "product" or are they a one-off?


If I like the final tuning, I will release it.


----------



## samandhi

tgx78 said:


> If I like the final tuning, I will release it.


Fantastic! Do let us know here, because I would certainly be interested in checking into it. 

BTW, stellar job thus far (from what I can see). What are the specs on the driver?


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 14, 2022)

samandhi said:


> This is probably why I have them on their way to go along with the others in my camp.
> 
> Thanks for sharing your thoughts on all your new toys. I can't really do the same, because I opted to order multiple head gear of differing type and wouldn't be appropriate to share in here. Having said that, in short, the Hook-X are turning out to be end game on the planar IEM front (in case anyone is interested), though they require much power to sound that good.
> 
> ...


Okay so of your list, I only have listening experience with the Chaconne, RW-2K, RW-3K, and about 5 minutes on the Yinman 600s. The FF3s are quite different from the first three and I heard so little of the Yinmans that I'm not sure how much of the similarities it shares are attributes versus a something heard on tracks from a specific genre.

Here's my best take: To me the RW-3Ks are the most analytical and overtly detailed of the three. They present the most balanced signature from end to end that comes off clean and without much emphasis on any one part over the other. The RW-2K has a pretty clear mid range emphasis and a good helping of the warmth and musicality that generally comes with that style of tuning. That's not to say that they don't have bass or treble because they do, but both take a noticeable step back or a backseat, if you will, from the mids. You can still hear much of the detail in the bass and treble if you listen for it, but the natural effect of that mid focus and a bit of rolloff is that the details aren't right up front like they are with the 3k, if that makes sense.

Now the FF3 takes a completely different direction. Of the three it has by far the most powerful and dynamic low end. The bass is punchy, articulate, and detailed. The mids continue with the detail and presence with a clean powerful finish. The treble is very liquid smooth and on some tracks it can come off dark in a very synergistic way that plays right into the power and presence put out by the bass and mids, but on other tracks where things are bit less bass reliant and more delicate (not sure if this is the best word choice) the treble shows off some nice extension and is up to the task of reproducing airy details on brighter tracks. It's important to note that either "version" of the treble still gives you a detailed performance and the dark sound is not meant to be indicative of a recessed or heavily rolled off treble.

The last and most important thing I want to mention is that the FF3s have this huge, powerful presentation to it. I don't just mean a big soundstage. I mean everything it does is authoritative and powerful in a way that is definitely not something I hear in either of the RWs, or many other buds to be fair. The RWs have decent staging and the like, but when you hear the FF3s, I suspect you'll understand what I mean much better. I'm not criticizing the RWs with this, I'm just calling attention to it as a wonderful, even captivating trait that the FF3s possess in spades.

I have tried the FF3s on multiple DACs, DAPs, etc and I think they sound great through almost anything, but they take very well to very clean, even clinical sources/DACs that provide black backgrounds, sharp edges, and let the drivers in the FF3s move some air and show off their agility, especially in the low end. My ifi Gryphon has been great with them as has my A&K Kann Alpha (I'm so glad I have been reunited with my Kann!) and I'm going to be giving it a try on my Burson and the JDSLabs El Stack 2+ at some point just for kicks.

I hope this was helpful and I am looking forward to hearing what you think of the FF3s when you get them. I think you're in for a treat!


----------



## tgx78

samandhi said:


> Fantastic! Do let us know here, because I would certainly be interested in checking into it.
> 
> BTW, stellar job thus far (from what I can see). What are the specs on the driver?


Thanks. 

Easy to drive at 16ohm.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 14, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Just checked the price. I imagine Fiio is coming after this one with the upcoming FF5.


Honestly, if the FF5 is actually a step up from the FF3 it's going to be epic! The FF3 is already quite capable of competing shoulder to shoulder, note for note with some of the best buds out there, IMO. I mean, I haven't been doing the earbud thing long, but I have purchased and tried some of the best, most highly regarded buds out there and the FF3s are amongst my favorites for sure. I can confidently say that they won't be leaving my collection any time soon no matter how good the FF5 or any other earbud is because I like them that much.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> I can't say I have a lot of knowledge about the various models out there. The 2 that I have are the Sharp mt877 and the very last pinnacle minidisc player,  the Sony MZ-RH1. The problem with most old tech is finding batteries. Fortunately replacement Ni-MH replacement batteries are still available for the Sharp, but you have to be sure to get a player with the charging base and wall wort power supply. The Sharp also has an AA battery adapter which can be used as a backup power source or to extend play / record time in combination with the Ni-MH battery.
> 
> When the MD format was coming to a close due to CD audio and DAT recorders coming into vogue, Sony made a last heroic effort and released the pinnacle MZ-RH1 player / recorder and of course I had to get one even if it was the most expensive and last MD player to be produced. Skip to the present... You can't get batteries for this player anymore, but no fear I have a DIY solution posted on head-fi for a replacement battery build for this wonderful player.
> 
> ...


I have been looking around at some players and all that and I just might snag one.

I have two earbud topics for you: 1) What drivers did you get to throw in the shells from you sharps? Anything special or snazzy you want to share?

2) I somehow ended up on a pic of you FF3s with a silicone ring on them and no donut. I haven't gotten a chance to do this with them yet because I can't find the rings I have stashed somewhere and my order with a bag of them in it hasn't come yet so I have to ask: What effect if any did it have on the sound? Any significant differnces/benefits over the foam donuts for example.


----------



## earmonger

silverszi said:


> I bought the Qian39 too and only yesterday did I realise literally anything with pinna gain is unlistenable to my ears.
> I can't stop thinking about it and how common it is in literally every portable audio device
> it makes me think "are my ears weird" or is everyone else just not used to anything different.
> Did you try and eq down the 3khz area at all?


No. Frankly I gave them 10 minutes and heard boring bass and indifferent treble and decided, OK, my IEMS are better. 

I've also listened to some of the heavily hyped VE (Monks, Monks +) and thought, are you kidding?

I don't like the intrusiveness and irritation of IEMs. I was hoping an earbud might fix that. But I'm not willing to spend over $100 to find out that those were hyped too.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 14, 2022)

mt877 said:


> I just measured them again to be sure, 32 ohm. Left side that is, the right side is open. They're 14.8mm drivers.


Curious... maybe there were various impedances then. I'll update the timeline with such. Thank you for checking that. Cheers.

*Edit: I went through my notes and discovered that I indeed had mistakenly entered the wrong impedance value in the timeline... it was in fact 32Ω and not 16Ω  Apologies.*


----------



## WoodyLuvr

samandhi said:


> Question: Did you recognize those just by sight, or did you have to look it up in your (apparently) endless notes?


Those I knew... the MDs are quite recognizable and along with the Docomos were heavily modified and a favorite of DIYers back in the day.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay so of your list, I only have listening experience with the Chaconne, RW-2K, RW-3K, and about 5 minutes on the Yinman 600s. The FF3s are quite different from the first three and I heard so little of the Yinmans that I'm not sure how much of the similarities it shares are attributes versus a something heard on tracks from a specific genre.
> 
> Here's my best take: To me the RW-3Ks are the most analytical and overtly detailed of the three. They present the most balanced signature from end to end that comes off clean and without much emphasis on any one part over the other. The RW-2K has a pretty clear mid range emphasis and a good helping of the warmth a musicality that generally comes with that style of tuning. That's not to say that they don't have bass or treble because they do, but both take a noticeable step back or a backseat, if you will, from the mids. You can still hear much of the detail in the bass and treble if you listen for it, but the natural effect of that mid focus and a bit of rolloff is that the details aren't right up front like they are with the 3k, if that makes sense.
> 
> ...


WOW! Excellent write-up on the matter! And it makes perfect sense. And, from the sound of it, I will like them a lot (like most have also implied or said outright). As mentioned earlier, I love them all for differing reasons. It sounds like the FF3 will have a place in my camp as something different yet again (which is my desire). 

I will be listening to these (mostly) with my DX160 or the DX300. I will have to do the usual amp card test to see which one(s) they sound best with on the DX300, but it sounds like, from your take they will sound best on the Amp12 card (the most power, neutral, widest, best attack of the bunch I have available to me). 

On another note, those Yinman have taken the current No.1 spot on my list because of their full sound, excellent overall bass retrieval, warmth, yet clarity. However, this is also contingent on having 2W or better available (IMHO). They got plenty loud out of 400mW but were pretty lifeless and flat in comparison to a source with (much) more power available. Even with 1.2W of power, they were noticeably worse sounding than with the higher power offering. Now keep in mind this could also (even probably) be due to differing signatures of the different amp cards.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 14, 2022)

tgx78 said:


> Tuning is being finalized.
> 
> Model name: Panorama Ridge
> Driver: Planar magnetic
> Cable termination: 4.4mm


Wow! Sweet! So no longer a hybrid coupled with a 6-7mm DD? Planar = 14.2mm?


----------



## earmonger

silverszi said:


> i have been affected by misinformation on the internet.


Haven't we all?


----------



## Shizdan

thank's


----------



## tgx78

WoodyLuvr said:


> Wow! Sweet! So no longer a hybrid coupled with a 6-7mm DD? Planar = 14.2mm?


Nope. DD actually muddied up lower mids too much and couldn’t keep up with planar speed. Single Planar driver per channel now. Cheers


----------



## Shizdan

Contact him directly.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> 2) I somehow ended up on a pic of you FF3s with a silicone ring on them and no donut. I haven't gotten a chance to do this with them yet because I can't find the rings I have stashed somewhere and my order with a bag of them in it hasn't come yet so I have to ask: What effect if any did it have on the sound? Any significant differnces/benefits over the foam donuts for example.


I know you didn't ask me, but in my experience with the silicone rings, it (potentially) creates a better seal than with foams, so the quantity of bass is perceived as more, and if you weren't getting a bud close enough to your ear drum, it might also tame upper mid (banshee) scream. It could also potentially give the perception of more airy presentation. The caveats (IMO) are that soundstage might be reduced, and imaging/layering might also seem more intimate by comparison.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> WOW! Excellent write-up on the matter! And it makes perfect sense. And, from the sound of it, I will like them a lot (like most have also implied or said outright). As mentioned earlier, I love them all for differing reasons. It sounds like the FF3 will have a place in my camp as something different yet again (which is my desire).
> 
> I will be listening to these (mostly) with my DX160 or the DX300. I will have to do the usual amp card test to see which one(s) they sound best with on the DX300, but it sounds like, from your take they will sound best on the Amp12 card (the most power, neutral, widest, best attack of the bunch I have available to me).
> 
> On another note, those Yinman have taken the current No.1 spot on my list because of their full sound, excellent overall bass retrieval, warmth, yet clarity. However, this is also contingent on having 2W or better available (IMHO). They got plenty loud out of 400mW but were pretty lifeless and flat in comparison to a source with (much) more power available. Even with 1.2W of power, they were noticeably worse sounding than with the higher power offering. Now keep in mind this could also (even probably) be due to differing signatures of the different amp cards.


Thanks for the info on the Yinmans. Thankfully I have options with plenty of power when the time comes for me to try out my own pair!


----------



## samandhi

tgx78 said:


> Nope. DD actually muddied up lower mids too much and couldn’t keep up with planar speed. Single Planar driver per channel now. Cheers


That is excellent! Have you had issues trying to tune the treble with the ortho driver?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> I know you didn't ask me, but in my experience with the silicone rings, it (potentially) creates a better seal than with foams, so the quantity of bass is perceived as more, and if you weren't getting a bud close enough to your ear drum, it might also tame upper mid (banshee) scream. It could also potentially give the perception of more airy presentation. The caveats (IMO) are that soundstage might be reduced, and imaging/layering might also seem more intimate by comparison.


Nice! I have tried the rings on a couple buds so far, but I only have 2 pairs that came with something and I seem to have misplaced them for the moment. I was going to try them with the FF3s because I like to experiment, but I might end up having to wait until my order shows up.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

WoodyLuvr said:


> *2000 - Sharp HP-MD70; 16 32Ω
> 
> Edit: Corrected as I had the wrong impedance value entered for the Sharp MD.*





mt877 said:


> I just measured them again to be sure, 32 ohm. Left side that is, the right side is open. They're 14.8mm drivers.





WoodyLuvr said:


> Curious... maybe there were various impedances then. I'll update the timeline with such. Thank you for checking that. Cheers.


Scratch that good sir! I went through my notes and discovered that I indeed had mistakenly entered the wrong impedance value in the timeline... it was in fact 32Ω and not 16Ω   Apologies.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

tgx78 said:


> Nope. DD actually muddied up lower mids too much and couldn’t keep up with planar speed. Single Planar driver per channel now. Cheers


Wow! I might have to wait for these bad boys to come out before I snag a pair from you.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Shizdan said:


> Contact him directly.


Whom?


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I have been looking around at some players and all that and I just might snag one.
> 
> I have two earbud topics for you: 1) What drivers did you get to throw in the shells from you sharps? Anything special or snazzy you want to share?
> 
> 2) I somehow ended up on a pic of you FF3s with a silicone ring on them and no donut. I haven't gotten a chance to do this with them yet because I can't find the rings I have stashed somewhere and my order with a bag of them in it hasn't come yet so I have to ask: What effect if any did it have on the sound? Any significant differnces/benefits over the foam donuts for example.


I haven't done anything to the Sharp buds yet. I'm either gonna use 14.8mm pk2 32 ohm drivers or other no name 32 ohm driver. I'll have to wait to see what sounds best in the Sharp shells and if I don't like it will have to source different drivers and test again.

I didn't post a picture of the FF3 with silicone rings, but I imagine they would sound like no foams applied.

Here's the post you were referring to: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-17092936


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Nice! I have tried the rings on a couple buds so far, but I only have 2 pairs that came with something and I seem to have misplaced them for the moment. I was going to try them with the FF3s because I like to experiment, but I might end up having to wait until my order shows up.


I used to have this issue, but nowadays, I use a nice tea (bag) wooden box for all my accessories that are not being immediately used. It has saved me quite a bit of headache from losing stuff, or even finding the exact thing I want at a specific time. Though, it is getting quite full by now...


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 14, 2022)

samandhi said:


> I used to have this issue, but nowadays, I use a nice tea (bag) wooden box for all my accessories that are not being immediately used. It has saved me quite a bit of headache from losing stuff, or even finding the exact thing I want at a specific time. Though, it is getting quite full by now...


Me like! Nice box there!

Here is mine... dated pics sorry...



Spoiler: Battles Earbud Carry Case






Ksearphone Bell-Ti 120Ω earbuds sitting on top of *"Battleship Earbud" Carry Case*

This is a re-purposed watch travel case that I completely gutted and then re-applied cotton batting, thin foam padding, and black suede velvet. I also applied black suede velvet onto the outer bottom-side of the case. The top of the case was then decorated with vintage 1898 US Battleship Proprietary Revenue stamps (aka "Battleships") depicting the USS Maine sunk by an explosion in Havana Harbor, Havana, Cuba on 15 February 1898. These 120-year-old war tax stamps were affixed with three applications of decoupage glue followed by fifty thinly applied layers of acrylic polymer varnish which were lightly and finely sanded between coats, over a period of one month and then a final polish and rub out a good two months after these pictures were taken to allow the varnish to fully harden.


 
Left Pic:
Scott#RB23 5/8c Deep Ultramarine - US Proprietary "Battleship" Revenue Series of 1898
Engraved by Robert Ponickau. Frame engraved by Douglas S. Ronaldson.
These revenue stamps were issued to fund the Spanish–American War.

Right Pic:
Painting of U.S.S. Maine by Frederick Nelson Atwood (1895)




B&W Photograph circa 1897







Here is a pic of my case all ready for travel. So no, my earbuds do not travel loose within the case, but rather each in their own protective leather pouch


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> I used to have this issue, but nowadays, I use a nice tea (bag) wooden box for all my accessories that are not being immediately used. It has saved me quite a bit of headache from losing stuff, or even finding the exact thing I want at a specific time. Though, it is getting quite full by now...


Yeah, I actually have a very well organized watch chest with multiple drawers for stuff like this, but I'm guessing I set them down somewhere and forgot them or my gf's dumb ass cat (I actually like the cat so calm down lol!) snagged the little baggie they're in because she takes anything small and plastic that isn't nailed down and disappears it into some kitty cat black hole she has somewhere.

But cats aside, I have tons of modding supplies, cable making supplies, accessories, etc that built up or that I keep stocked and I used to keep in in various tackle/tool boxes, a screw and bolt organizer, and other things, but my girl bought me a watch chest (5 drawers with 20 square each) to hold my vintage watch collection in instead of keeping them in my sock drawer (I thought it worked fine lol). When I saw the watch chest I immediately asked her to order another one, transferred all of my headphone/IEM/earbud bits and pieces into it, and the rest is history. I still have room to put more stuff in it too!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> I haven't done anything to the Sharp buds yet. I'm either gonna use 14.8mm pk2 32 ohm drivers or other no name 32 ohm driver. I'll have to wait to see what sounds best in the Sharp shells and if I don't like it will have to source different drivers and test again.
> 
> I didn't post a picture of the FF3 with silicone rings, but I imagine they would sound like no foams applied.
> 
> Here's the post you were referring to: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-17092936


Thanks, I figured out how I ended up there eventually haha!


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Me like! Nice box there!
> 
> Here is mine... dated pics sorry...
> 
> ...


That is absolutely amazing! Did you make (mod) that yourself? I commend you for your ingenuity and skill to make it happen. On top of all of that, there is some amazing history going on there. 

Having said that, my box is for home use only, and I store no buds in it. I don't really have a travel bag per se'. I just use my old Zune (remember those hehe) case for DAP and IEM/earbud carry-all. My buds also do not ever lay around without a case (unless I am going back and forth between a couple/few sets). Here is a picture of where most of my buds/IEMs/TWS live. They don't all fit there, so some are in a(n) (especially designated) drawer in my computer desk (not pictured). 



Spoiler


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I was just looking and I actually still have maybe 15 or so minidiscs! If I was looking to grab a decent player what models should I look at (obviously starting with the Sharp MT877 ofc)?
> 
> As for thanking me for asking about your player, I'm glad my curiosity worked both ways this time!


I still have my minidisc and all its accessories.  My best minidisc recording is of Jeff Beck and Beth Hart Live in Santa Barbara about 2 decades ago.  I’m not sure anyone has ever done it as well as those two on that night.  Even if you’re not a fan of the style, the power of his playing and her voice can send you places you can’t go with any other vehicle.  Coincidentally, it was also the best sounding concert I’ve ever been to.  I’m glad to have a working minidisc and to have a copy of that show for generations.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Yeah, I actually have a very well organized watch chest with multiple drawers for stuff like this, but I'm guessing I set them down somewhere and forgot them or my gf's dumb ass cat (I actually like the cat so calm down lol!) snagged the little baggie they're in because she takes anything small and plastic that isn't nailed down and disappears it into some kitty cat black hole she has somewhere.
> 
> But cats aside, I have tons of modding supplies, cable making supplies, accessories, etc that built up or that I keep stocked and I used to keep in in various tackle/tool boxes, a screw and bolt organizer, and other things, but my girl bought me a watch chest (5 drawers with 20 square each) to hold my vintage watch collection in instead of keeping them in my sock drawer (I thought it worked fine lol). When I saw the watch chest I immediately asked her to order another one, transferred all of my headphone/IEM/earbud bits and pieces into it, and the rest is history. I still have room to put more stuff in it too!


That sounds ideal IMO. Mind sharing a pic? 

I kinda' like the idea of what you are describing, rather than a simple tackle box (though it works well enough for my other stuff i.e.... IEM tips, cables, headphone pads, etc...). And since that tea box is getting a bit full (for my tastes) with just my earbud stuffs, I might like to upgrade to something that I can keep things organized by company, rather than by type of accessory (much like I do with my tips, so I remember what IEM they came from).


----------



## WoodyLuvr

samandhi said:


> That is absolutely amazing! Did you make (mod) that yourself? I commend you for your ingenuity and skill to make it happen. On top of all of that, there is some amazing history going on there.
> 
> Having said that, my box is for home use only, and I store no buds in it. I don't really have a travel bag per se'. I just use my old Zune (remember those hehe) case for DAP and IEM/earbud carry-all. My buds also do not ever lay around without a case (unless I am going back and forth between a couple/few sets). Here is a picture of where most of my buds/IEMs/TWS live. They don't all fit there, so some are in a(n) (especially designated) drawer in my computer desk (not pictured).
> 
> ...


Yes... one of my very last DIY projects. The ole hands and eyes don't cooperate anymore. LOL!


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> I still have my minidisc and all its accessories.  My best minidisc recording is of Jeff Beck and Beth Hart Live in Santa Barbara about 2 decades ago.  I’m not sure anyone has ever done it as well as those two on that night.  Even if you’re not a fan of the style, the power of his playing and her voice can send you places you can’t go with any other vehicle.  Coincidentally, it was also the best sounding concert I’ve ever been to.  I’m glad to have a working minidisc and to have a copy of that show for generations.


Off topic a bit, but if you are into Jeff beck, he is still at it:

https://music.amazon.com/albums/B0B3CW9FND?ref=dm_sh_5f71-c775-7a6c-3bf3-1e731


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> I still have my minidisc and all its accessories.  My best minidisc recording is of Jeff Beck and Beth Hart Live in Santa Barbara about 2 decades ago.  I’m not sure anyone has ever done it as well as those two on that night.  Even if you’re not a fan of the style, the power of his playing and her voice can send you places you can’t go with any other vehicle.  Coincidentally, it was also the best sounding concert I’ve ever been to.  I’m glad to have a working minidisc and to have a copy of that show for generations.


I have never seen him with Beth Hart, but Jeff Beck live is pretty spectacular. I have seen Jeff Beck twice, once as the headliner and once as the guest star stealing a show from Clapton at the House of Blues in LA, and both times were about as good as it gets.


----------



## syazwaned

Black-Wolf said:


> Hello,
> As i've bought some time ago a pair of Yinman 600 (more about them later), and i like to use my earbuds around the house or in my garden, i wanted a transportable AMP able to drive them fully.
> 
> As Ifi Audio and Chord are a bit expensive for me, i went for an Xduuo XD05 Plus.
> ...


Hi Sir, how is Grand Rider compared to Yinman 600? Both signature is warm neutral right?


----------



## samandhi (Aug 14, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Off topic a bit, but if you are into Jeff beck, he is still at it:
> 
> https://music.amazon.com/albums/B0B3CW9FND?ref=dm_sh_5f71-c775-7a6c-3bf3-1e731


Or if you don't have Amazon music:


So sorry. I meant to link to the full album:


----------



## Ronion (Aug 14, 2022)

All hail Jeff Beck!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> That sounds ideal IMO. Mind sharing a pic?
> 
> I kinda' like the idea of what you are describing, rather than a simple tackle box (though it works well enough for my other stuff i.e.... IEM tips, cables, headphone pads, etc...). And since that tea box is getting a bit full (for my tastes) with just my earbud stuffs, I might like to upgrade to something that I can keep things organized by company, rather than by type of accessory (much like I do with my tips, so I remember what IEM they came from).


I can snap a pic and share it when I get back home. My girl and I went to her parents house for dinner and a movie, but it should be wrapping up soon. I'm bored stiff and trying not to fall asleep because this movie sucks. Her mom's cooking was totally worth it though! She made hand stuffed manicotti that was lights out!


----------



## o0genesis0o (Aug 14, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> The last and most important thing I want to mention is that the FF3s have this huge, powerful presentation to it.



This! This is why FF3 kind of erase U12t from my wishlist. I just have the pleasure to audition Sony Z1R IEM belonging to another head-fier, and the staging and power of FF3 is as huge as the Z1R. Of course, the IEM bass has way more pressure, but the “huge cathedral-like soundstage” is the same.



JAnonymous5150 said:


> Honestly, if the FF5 is actually a step up from the FF3 it's going to be epic!



Knowing Fiio, they might “jazz it up” like FH5 to FH5s or FH7


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Knowing Fiio, they might “jazz it up” like FH5 to FH5s or FH7



Fiio's past decisions to tune successors to be "more fun" or to jazz them up as you put it is exactly why I qualified that statement with an "if" at the beginning of it. I probably should have capitalized and italicized for emphasis, though.


----------



## captione

FranQL said:


> I haven't heard pre-made qian, but one thing I do know, and that is that the driver used in it is really good if you appreciate the mid-high focused sound, and it sounds perfectly good for the price, so you might not like it. Whether they are tight, or  they arent your cup of tea, which is a different thing. A €3 VIDO is also quite good (talking about its X6 yincrow) but I haven't detected any Pinna gain on it, maybe I missed it or I'm wrong, a great expert on this topic is @captione .
> 
> Sometimes the prejudices of more expensive is better influence us in our criteria, sometimes we pay €180 for a bud that has exactly the same driver (and adjustment sometimes) that we find in a bud between €10 and €20, and the evaluations are so different that it makes me think about how much subjectivity there is in this hobby.


Qian and Yincrow is something I wouldn't really recommend if you want an earbud that would make you "listen to the music as the musicians intended", they're just really good for chill and fun listening sessions. I really think K64 legitimately comes close when it comes to that + thin foams.

Also, earbuds are just one of the mediums that are easy to succumb to hype just for how cheap everything is. It's a medium where a 9USD pair can beat a 100USD+ pair. The price to performance ratio is insane and the diversity of options ranging from sound to fitment are plenty.


----------



## Ronion

I really hope they don’t blow it.  The precedent they set is a very high bar.  I pray they don’t take the task lightly.


----------



## o0genesis0o

WoodyLuvr said:


> Me like! Nice box there!
> 
> Here is mine... dated pics sorry...
> 
> ...



Oh my, that's epic. I'm a sucker for fancy tech gears stored in well padded case.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Aug 14, 2022)

Ronion said:


> I really hope they don’t blow it.  The precedent they set is a very high bar.  I pray they don’t take the task lightly.



This FF series seems like a product of love by Fiio's owner. Let's hope that he loves the same kind of sound that we do   (oi, Fiio boss, if you read this, we count on you, please don't mess it up next month)

Btw, I share the picture of the planar ear buds with another head-fier. Good luck @tgx78. We are waiting with great hope.


----------



## yaps66

tgx78 said:


> Tuning is being finalized.
> 
> Model name: Panorama Ridge
> Driver: Planar magnetic
> Cable termination: 4.4mm


----------



## yaps66

o0genesis0o said:


> Oh my, that's epic. I'm a sucker for fancy tech gears stored in well padded case.


+1 Love me nice fancy and epic cases!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> This FF series seems like a produce of love by Fiio's owner. Let's hope that he loves the same kind of sound that we do   (oi, Fiio boss, if you read this, we count on you, please don't mess it up next month)
> 
> Btw, I share the picture of the planar ear buds with another head-fier. Good luck @tgx78. We are waiting with great hope.


I have read some of his statements in press releases and on various discord servers and stuff and he really does seem to be a fan of earbuds/flatheads. He says that Fiio won't break even on the FF series/pair, but that they created them because he loves the medium and to show solidarity with and pay back the audiophile community that has supported them by catering to niche customers when they can.

His statements seemed like they came from a genuine place so I was pretty impressed. I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with the FF5s for sure. The prospect of them somehow taking the FF3 to another level is exciting!


----------



## baskingshark

samandhi said:


> That sounds ideal IMO. Mind sharing a pic?
> 
> I kinda' like the idea of what you are describing, rather than a simple tackle box (though it works well enough for my other stuff i.e.... IEM tips, cables, headphone pads, etc...). And since that tea box is getting a bit full (for my tastes) with just my earbud stuffs, I might like to upgrade to something that I can keep things organized by company, rather than by type of accessory (much like I do with my tips, so I remember what IEM they came from).



I store my earbuds and IEMs in a watchbox I bought for around 20 bucks. Sorry a bit messy:


When the wife comes to give trouble and asks why are there more IEMs and earbuds coming in the mail, I secretly palm off a few into a small drawer stash, so this watch box never gets overfilled.



When on the go, I bring my gear in a small little $1 USD hardcase:

No joke. It is really $1 USD on Aliexpress and I liked them so much I bought 10 of these hard cases. Just search "KZ ABS Resin" on Aliexpress and multiple shops sell it. It is exactly the same as my Westone hardcase (which costs 20X more) but without their lame logo emblazoned on it. These cases are really tough, I've knocked them and dropped them on the go multiple times and none have cracked.


----------



## silverszi

o0genesis0o said:


> My two cents: ear gain are not there for torture or a cash grab invention of someone and then copied by others. There are a few companies doing the same type of experiment (“good” speaker in a “good” room, heard by an artificial HATS) and they all come to the same concept independently, with slight variations:
> 
> Harman: 12db ear gain at 3k, lots of subbass, no midbass, dip at 250hz to separate the big bass from the rest.
> Moondrop VDSF target: sometimes it looks like etymotic target, sometimes it look like Harman. I remember the CEO explained that at first, he thinks transparent sound like Etymotic is a good idea, and then he works with real musicians and he changed his mind, thus we have multiple version of the target. Anyhow, both have ear gain at 3k, around 10db.
> ...


Please continue
Also from my experience the ear gain doesn't affect the soundstage nearly as much as having proper extension and one of my ears not being blocked at any given time.


----------



## silverszi

earmonger said:


> Haven't we all?


true but this comment was more about non standard measurement rigs.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

baskingshark said:


> I store my earbuds and IEMs in a watchbox I bought for around 20 bucks. Sorry a bit messy:
> 
> When the wife comes to give trouble and asks why are there more IEMs and earbuds coming in the mail, I secretly palm off a few into a small drawer stash, so this watch box never gets overfilled.
> 
> ...


I have to ask: How many pairs of buds do you have?!?!

Edit: Forgot to say I have a few if those KZ resin cases as well. They're a great deal!


----------



## baskingshark

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I have to ask: How many pairs of buds do you have?!?!
> 
> Edit: Forgot to say I have a few if those KZ resin cases as well. They're a great deal!



Earbuds maybe 20+. IEMs a lot more haha.

Definitely not as much as some of our esteemed members here haha. (Looking at you @WoodyLuvr )


----------



## JAnonymous5150

baskingshark said:


> Earbuds maybe 20+. IEMs a lot more haha.
> 
> Definitely not as much as some of our esteemed members here haha. (Looking at you @WoodyLuvr )


Damn! And I thought I was a gear junkie. I have some catching up to do if I'm gonna keep chillin' around here lol!


----------



## jeejack

captione said:


> Also, earbuds are just one of the mediums that are easy to succumb to hype just for how cheap everything is. It's a medium where a 9USD pair can beat a 100USD+ pair. The price to performance ratio is insane and the diversity of options ranging from sound to fitment are plenty.


And also in this context it is possible that those $9 buds cost $100. The drivers you find in the $9 buds are also found in the $100 buds


----------



## Setmagic

jeejack said:


> And also in this context it is possible that those $9 buds cost $100. The drivers you find in the $9 buds are also found in the $100 buds



It's pretty good deal to get 10-20 times more money for a product that is mainly premade.


----------



## silverszi

How does liking work on headfi
does it save your likes so you can access them?


----------



## FranQL (Aug 14, 2022)

silverszi said:


> How does liking work on headfi
> does it save your likes so you can access them?


You can click "like" only in the following cases:

- If when reading the text you have experienced a tingling in the stomach
- If when reading the text you shed tears of emotion
- If reading the text makes you want to open a beer
- If when reading the text you had an orgasm
- if you thought, this guy has his own target curve
- if you thought, this guy has no pinna gain on his buds
- If when you read the text you thought, damn "what a smart guy"
- If when reading the text you think "this guy knows so much about the subject"
- If you think that behind her nick is Scarlett Johansson
- ....add what you want

CAUTION: if you talk bad about X6 or LBB and you like it, Chuck will be watching



it's a joke


----------



## Black-Wolf

syazwaned said:


> Hi Sir, how is Grand Rider compared to Yinman 600? Both signature is warm neutral right?


Hi,
I'm not at home for some days, i have the Grand Rider with me bit not the Yinman. I did not have the time to compare them directly (i received the Grand Rider the day before leaving home), so take what i'm going to say with some distance...

The Grand Rider 1 and the Yinman are Indeed both warm neutral but quite different when you dig further:
The Yinman have of bit more lows, or let's say more rounded low frequencies, where the Grand Rider are a bit more energetic in this region.

The Grand Rider put more energy in high mids/ low-highs, the Yinman are more reserved here but both are equally detailed in the highs.
Both have Real exceptional soundstage for earbuds.
I'd Say the Yinman are warmer, could seem a bit veiled a first hear but details are here as there are precise and delicate in the highs. Yinman could be compared with the Sennheiser HD650 or some Earsonics IEM (not the more bassy ones obviously)

They are quite complementary, The Grand Rider 1 being more energy oriented, the Yinman more relaxed.

But i did not compare them directly, those are just my impressions.
When i get back to Corsica, where i live, i'll try to be more precise and to rely less on sound memory which can be mistaken.


----------



## ttorbic

Wow, some amazing collections and organisation skills on display here! I just have two earbuds in my active rotation, so thought I'd share some pics showing them off  




@tgx78 's Serratus on the left, @RikudouGoku 's Alter Rider 1 on the right. The Alter Rider 1 is on my commuting carry case (enough to fit 2 IEMs + earbud + Qudelix).


----------



## silverszi

No messages in seven hours? I think that's a record here.


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 14, 2022)

mt877 said:


> I haven't done anything to the Sharp buds yet. I'm either gonna use 14.8mm pk2 32 ohm drivers or other no name 32 ohm driver. I'll have to wait to see what sounds best in the Sharp shells and if I don't like it will have to source different drivers and test again.
> 
> I didn't post a picture of the FF3 with silicone rings, but I imagine they would sound like no foams applied.
> 
> Here's the post you were referring to: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-17092936


I'd consider the 14.8mm 32Ω titanium driver. It's my second favorite after the OG 15Ω redfilm driver.


baskingshark said:


> When on the go, I bring my gear in a small little $1 USD hardcase:
> 
> No joke. It is really $1 USD on Aliexpress and I liked them so much I bought 10 of these hard cases. Just search "KZ ABS Resin" on Aliexpress and multiple shops sell it. It is exactly the same as my Westone hardcase (which costs 20X more) but without their lame logo emblazoned on it. These cases are really tough, I've knocked them and dropped them on the go multiple times and none have cracked.


The only minor difference is the seal. I water tested by submerging in the sink and the kz case leaks (slowly).

But for $1 totally worth it. I've got a few myself.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 14, 2022)

So after taking a break from earbuds and trying out my new pairs of headphones for a while, I popped in the Dunu Alpha 1s. The hybrid (DD + BA) design caught my attention and I was interested to see what a hybrid earbud would sound like.

Initial impressions of the Dunu Alpha 1: These are VERY fit dependent. Dunu's decision to use a BA in the design makes it so that a seal or near seal using their silicone fins/rings is necessary to get a good result. TBH, using the fairly large silicone fins and creating a seal kinda takes away a bit of what I like most about using earbuds and doesn't quite accomplish what an IEM can do with the same hybrid setup.

Looking at the Alpha 1 purely from the sound perspective, I'm a little underwhelmed. The mids come across a bit shouty and occasionally even harsh. The bass goes fairly deep, but doesn't have much presence and can be a little soft and muddy/sloppy on tracks that are busier in the low end. I was hoping that the inclusion of a BA would mean nice detailed, extended highs...I was wrong. The treble I hear is good enough, but nothing special and it rolls off pretty darn early.

I'm going to move on to something else and come back to the Alpha 1s a bit later in down the road and see if a little experimentation with more sources, varied music choices, and even playing with the fit might be able to squeeze a little audio magic out of them. I applaud Dunu for thinking out of the box, though. I always like seeing that kind of thing.


----------



## ian91

Listening to TGXear Serratus from the Megatron...

I've had a quiet evening for extended listening and it's just been absolutely disarming. Such a beautiful transducer. Each string pull is perfectly expressed. I'm rediscovering dimensions to tracks I thought I knew like the back of my hand...

This could easily be a 'one and done' for me (my library is very much limited to what Serratus suits) but I'm happy to support this level of quality and look forward to what's to come from our friend @tgx78. 

It's great to have my listening time, once again, occupied by an earbud too!


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> So after taking a break from earbuds and trying out my new pairs of headphones for a while, I popped in the Dunu Alpha 1s. The hybrid (DD + BA) design caught my attention and I was interested to see what a hybrid earbud would sound like.
> 
> Initial impressions of the Dunu Alpha 1: These are VERY fit dependent. Dunu's decision to use a BA in the design makes it so that a seal or near seal using their silicone fins/rings is necessary to get a good result. TBH, using the fairly large silicone fins and creating a seal kinda takes away a bit of what I like most about using earbuds and doesn't quite accomplish what an IEM can do with the same hybrid setup.
> 
> ...



That BA performance is disappointing.

I always feel that multi-BA configuration or hybrid are just highly complicated compromise necessary when full range micro dynamic drivers were bad (like Shure SE215 bad) and isolation is a must. I mean, sure, you can fine tune the tuning much more with multi-BA, but how often do we see properly tuned multi-BA sets, with proper reproduction of dynamic and bass? The few that do so are shockingly expensive.


----------



## silverszi

@tablo80 recommended me the newbsound 32pro but there doesn't appear to be that many impressions and I am difficult to please


----------



## JAnonymous5150

silverszi said:


> @tablo80 recommended me the newbsound 32pro but there doesn't appear to be that many impressions and I am difficult to please


I haven't tried them, but I do see them recommended pretty often. I will likely end up buying a pair myself.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> So after taking a break from earbuds and trying out my new pairs of headphones for a while, I popped in the Dunu Alpha 1s. The hybrid (DD + BA) design caught my attention and I was interested to see what a hybrid earbud would sound like.
> 
> Initial impressions of the Dunu Alpha 1: These are VERY fit dependent. Dunu's decision to use a BA in the design makes it so that a seal or near seal using their silicone fins/rings is necessary to get a good result. TBH, using the fairly large silicone fins and creating a seal kinda takes away a bit of what I like most about using earbuds and doesn't quite accomplish what an IEM can do with the same hybrid setup.
> 
> ...


I don't think there is much for it that time won't fix (to a point). My point is that if you use them exclusively for about 2 weeks, you will start to appreciate (and even miss when you move on) the signature. This is similar tuning to my Sennheiser HD700, which at first listen sound a bit off, but your brain gets used to in and then can focus on how well they are actually tuned. I know this sounds like an excuse to justify my purchase but honestly, I only paid $39 for the DUNUs, so I really don't have much to lose either way. 

Music choice is key for these (and the Maria II). They are very niche (one trick pony as @WoodyLuvr would say). They sound fantastic with any sort of dynamic music (i.e... classical, slow jazz, blues, etc...), though nothing as true to the sound as the Chaconne are, for instance. 

On that same note, the Maria II are tuned very similar but with a bit better presence of bass and a bit better treble extension. You MIGHT be disappointed with the quantity of bass on these considering there is a HUGE speaker hanging off the back of these though. The good news with these is that you can EQ in a TON of bass if you chose to (bass-head levels IMO) and get little to no distortion. Having said all of that about both buds, for specific genres of music, these can be magical, just don't expect all-rounders out of these. 


o0genesis0o said:


> That BA performance is disappointing.
> 
> I always feel that multi-BA configuration or hybrid are just highly complicated compromise necessary when full range micro dynamic drivers were bad (like Shure SE215 bad) and isolation is a must. I mean, sure, you can fine tune the tuning much more with multi-BA, but how often do we see properly tuned multi-BA sets, with proper reproduction of dynamic and bass? The few that do so are shockingly expensive.


Most times I would totally agree with you, but I have a set of Audiosense T800 (8 all BA drivers) that might confirm that there IS such a thing that aren't kilobuck. BUT... they were AS flagship IEMs and went for only $300. They worked really hard with these (it is obvious), and on top of all that, they are a crossover(less) design. I won't lie and say that they are the absolute best IEM I have ever heard, but I CAN say that they are the best all BA set I have ever heard (to date)...  This is why I was hoping to hear about the DUNU SA4, which still aren't available here... doh Ah well, if they never come here, I am totally happy with the T800 if I need my "all BA" fix.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> I don't think there is much for it that time won't fix (to a point). My point is that if you use them exclusively for about 2 weeks, you will start to appreciate (and even miss when you move on) the signature. This is similar tuning to my Sennheiser HD700, which at first listen sound a bit off, but your brain gets used to in and then can focus on how well they are actually tuned. I know this sounds like an excuse to justify my purchase but honestly, I only paid $39 for the DUNUs, so I really don't have much to lose either way.
> 
> Music choice is key for these (and the Maria II). They are very niche (one trick pony as @WoodyLuvr would say). They sound fantastic with any sort of dynamic music (i.e... classical, slow jazz, blues, etc...), though nothing as true to the sound as the Chaconne are, for instance.
> 
> ...


I am not a basshead at all and I'm listening to the Maria IIs as we speak and thus far I'm not disappointed by their bass at all. Keep in mind, one of my favorite buds is the Toneking Viridis. I like what bass is there to be accurate and well controlled. The bass on the Alpha 1s was neither while the bass on the Maria IIs is pretty well done.

Also, aside from their tuning kind of heading in the same direction, I don't find much resemblance between the the Alpha 1 and the Maria II. I only listened to the Alpha 1 for a couple hours and have only listened to the Maria IIs for 30 or 40 minutes and I will revisit them many times before making a decision.

I am more than familiar with the concept of giving my brain time to adjust to a sound so I never make rash decisions, but I have to say that the kind of change I would need to see out of the Alpha 1s doesn't happen *often* with time. It's possible that some fit issue or combo will make it click, but I am generally pretty adept at finding good fits and combos quickly so I will say that it's unlikely.

As for the all BA comments and the T800s: i have heard the T800s and they are a pretty good all BA solution for a modest price. I went with the Etymotic ER4XRs when I was looking for single or all BA solutions that were cheaper because I felt that the tuning was a bit more cohesive and the detail provided my the ER4 series is very impressive. I like the T800s significantly more than Etys multi-BA offering (the Evo, IIRC).

However, the lower priced BA sets all have some pretty noticeable flaws, but I would generally expect that at their price. When you jump to something like the Andros, their tuning and performance is really on a totally different level than the other sets I just mentioned and any other all BA setup I have tried for less and many that cost more. I think that's less a criticism of the other sets and more a testament to Campfire getting it so right with the Andro 2020s. All of this is just my 2 cents ofc.


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> I don't think there is much for it that time won't fix (to a point). My point is that if you use them exclusively for about 2 weeks, you will start to appreciate (and even miss when you move on) the signature. This is similar tuning to my Sennheiser HD700, which at first listen sound a bit off, but your brain gets used to in and then can focus on how well they are actually tuned. I know this sounds like an excuse to justify my purchase but honestly, I only paid $39 for the DUNUs, so I really don't have much to lose either way.
> 
> Music choice is key for these (and the Maria II). They are very niche (one trick pony as @WoodyLuvr would say). They sound fantastic with any sort of dynamic music (i.e... classical, slow jazz, blues, etc...), though nothing as true to the sound as the Chaconne are, for instance.
> 
> ...



I’ve heard a lot about Audiosense full BA series but never got a chance to try them. Will put on my list to hear one day.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> a testament to Campfire getting it so right with the Andro 2020s.



Well, it’s like their only “good” IEM anyway (according to my criteria, put down pitchfork please   )

It’s kind of disheartening and exciting at the same time when S12 (planar) is as resolving as my Andro in A/B testing though. Thus I have a lot of hope in the upcoming planar earbuds. Break though performance at way lower price?


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I am not a basshead at all and I'm listening to the Maria IIs as we speak and thus far I'm not disappointed by their bass at all. Keep in mind, one of my favorite buds is the Toneking Viridis. I like what bass is there to be accurate and well controlled. The bass on the Alpha 1s was neither while the bass on the Maria IIs is pretty well done.
> 
> Also, aside from their tuning kind of heading in the same direction, I don't find much resemblance between the the Alpha 1 and the Maria II. I only listened to the Alpha 1 for a couple hours and have only listened to the Maria IIs for 30 or 40 minutes and I will revisit them many times before making a decision.
> 
> ...


Ah, ok. Sounds like you have it all handled then. Apologies for treating you as if you didn't know better, and I didn't really mean it that way, but I haven't seen you around much, and was trying to help you into your "audiophile" journey (if you needed it) as I might any that are "new". 

I guess I also assumed that coming from headphones and IEMs you were like the masses nowadays that prefer the boosted bass that most IEMs offer. I am like you, and didn't really find the bass lacking in the Maria II, but DID experiment a bit...  One of my favorite planar IEMs is/has always been the OG Tinhifi P1 (and now I think the Hook-X too), which have that pure "planar" bass, but at the expense of quantity and depth. This doesn't bother me a bit, and I think it is part of the magic of this set IMO. As for similarities/differences between the two, maybe it is my ears. They are both boosted so much at the pina gain that they sometimes hurt my ears (I am sensitive to boosts in that region, though I have gotten more used to it over time). I liken it to food; if you put too much sauce on something, you no longer taste the food, but only the sauce. Even so, I will still eat the food if I like the sauce. 

So, you feel as though Andro BAs justify the higher price tag (sincere question not smart **s), that they sound that much better? I ask because I have not heard too many higher end brands that are all BA and wasn't sure it COULD get TOO much better. I mean, I have heard hybrids that sound much better (to my ears) for their type, but never an all BA set. Don't tell me yes, because presently I am still enamored of the BA bass and sound front the T800, and you will kill my wallet... ROFL

I frequently look for those "gems" that come in at much higher than their price tag would suggest. Case in point, the iBasso IT-07 (1DD + 6 BA). For my ears I would put them up against much higher priced IEMs (to my ears being the key word here). Of course, I am not expecting a $20 set to sound as good as higher end stuff though, so there is a line that one has to see (virtually) drawn in the sand. 

Either way, I had no intention of offending if I did, just pleasant conversation.


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> Don't tell me yes, because presently I am still enamored of the BA bass and sound front the T800, and you will kill my wallet... ROFL



IMHO, Andromeda and good bass do not belong in the same sentence. That's the only true weakness of this set. Sure, the tonality can be a bit weird sometimes, but that's just nitpicking. But that textureless, no-decay bass, and the tendency to compress dynamic range? Harder to forgive to me. (Still salty that I got Andromeda rather than waiting for B stock U12t   )


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> IMHO, Andromeda and good bass do not belong in the same sentence. That's the only true weakness of this set. Sure, the tonality can be a bit weird sometimes, but that's just nitpicking. But that textureless, no-decay bass, and the tendency to compress dynamic range? Harder to forgive to me. (Still salty that I got Andromeda rather than waiting for B stock U12t   )


I could see that being an issue for me as well.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 15, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Well, it’s like their only “good” IEM anyway (according to my criteria, put down pitchfork please   )
> 
> It’s kind of disheartening and exciting at the same time when S12 (planar) is as resolving as my Andro in A/B testing though. Thus I have a lot of hope in the upcoming planar earbuds. Break though performance at way lower price?



To me, resolution isn't a particularly difficult thing to achieve, especially with the driver tech that's widely available for fairly cheap these days. Taking a multi-BA set and pulling off the wonderful blended tuning, 3d soundstage, and dynamic range/presentation that the Andro 2020s pull off is a much more difficult and rare feat, IMO.

As far as Campfire Audio IEMs in general goes, I actually don't like very many of their offerings either, although I got to briefly try the Supermoon a couple weeks ago and it sounded like something worth checking out. I plan to give it a longer listen in better circumstances in a little over a week. If you get a chance to try it out give it a listen.

That's enough about IEMs though...So I wasn't very impressed by the Rose Technics Martini, but these Maria IIs are much more my speed. They have some kind of timbral synergy that works very well for pianos, strings, and solo/less accompanied vocal tracks. I originally tried the Moondrop Chaconnes thinking that they might sound something like this and they were good, but ultimately not for me. These Maria IIs on the other hand have shown quite a bit of potential.

I plan on listening to all these more and the other new ones I got, but finally having gotten home to hookup my new to me DCA Stealths to my Burson Timekeeper 3i to hear them properly driven has been a transcendent experience and I couldn't stop myself from putting them back on!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

So to all my DIYers out there, I just got a load of shells, drivers, and other various supplies because, being an experienced modder and DIYer with over ears, IEMs, and amps, I knew right away that I was going to want to do some builds myself. I was wondering, what are some of your favorite tuning tips and tricks? I have been reading up on the subject so I have some pretty good ideas of some things I plan to try, but I figured I would ask the masters. 

Now I'm not looking for anyone to disclose their trade secrets or anything. I'm just looking for any basic tips, tricks, techniques, or knowledge that you guys have picked up along the way that you think a guy looking to put together some decent builds would find useful. Any and all responses will be useful and appreciated.

If it matters, I have drivers of various sizes, diaphragm materials, and impedances. I've got various MX500 shells, some PK style shells, various metal flathead housings. I've got a lot of different cable making materials with different core materials and  thicknesses. I have access to lathes, multimeters, dremels, drills, a drill press, a cnc machine, soldering supplies, welding supplies (not sure what I would need to weld, but I have my own torches, plasma cutter, and metal fab stuff haha), i have resin pouring and moulding supplies, and a whole lot more. I'm not sure if any of that matters, but I figured I would try to make the situation clear so you guys would know that I can go full on mad scientist if necessary!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Ah, ok. Sounds like you have it all handled then. Apologies for treating you as if you didn't know better, and I didn't really mean it that way, but I haven't seen you around much, and was trying to help you into your "audiophile" journey (if you needed it) as I might any that are "new".
> 
> I guess I also assumed that coming from headphones and IEMs you were like the masses nowadays that prefer the boosted bass that most IEMs offer. I am like you, and didn't really find the bass lacking in the Maria II, but DID experiment a bit...  One of my favorite planar IEMs is/has always been the OG Tinhifi P1 (and now I think the Hook-X too), which have that pure "planar" bass, but at the expense of quantity and depth. This doesn't bother me a bit, and I think it is part of the magic of this set IMO. As for similarities/differences between the two, maybe it is my ears. They are both boosted so much at the pina gain that they sometimes hurt my ears (I am sensitive to boosts in that region, though I have gotten more used to it over time). I liken it to food; if you put too much sauce on something, you no longer taste the food, but only the sauce. Even so, I will still eat the food if I like the sauce.
> 
> ...



I didn't take it as anything other than trying to be helpful, I was just trying to clarify where I'm coming from a bit. I like exchanging ideas and perspective regardless because it helps everyone understand each other better.

As for the Andros, yeah, I think they're price tag is generally consistent with their performance though I think we overpay for most audio stuff when you break down what really goes into it.

I don't want to turn this into an IEM thread so I'll leave it at that lol!


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> So to all my DIYers out there, I just got a load of shells, drivers, and other various supplies because, being an experienced modder and DIYer with over ears, IEMs, and amps, I knew right away that I was going to want to do some builds myself. I was wondering, what are some of your favorite tuning tips and tricks? I have been reading up on the subject so I have some pretty good ideas of some things I plan to try, but I figured I would ask the masters.
> 
> Now I'm not looking for anyone to disclose their trade secrets or anything. I'm just looking for any basic tips, tricks, techniques, or knowledge that you guys have picked up along the way that you think a guy looking to put together some decent builds would find useful. Any and all responses will be useful and appreciated.
> 
> If it matters, I have drivers of various sizes, diaphragm materials, and impedances. I've got various MX500 shells, some PK style shells, various metal flathead housings. I've got a lot of different cable making materials with different core materials and  thicknesses. I have access to lathes, multimeters, dremels, drills, a drill press, a cnc machine, soldering supplies, welding supplies (not sure what I would need to weld, but I have my own torches, plasma cutter, and metal fab stuff haha), i have resin pouring and moulding supplies, and a whole lot more. I'm not sure if any of that matters, but I figured I would try to make the situation clear so you guys would know that I can go full on mad scientist if necessary!


Maybe a good start:

DIY earbuds thread


----------



## mt877

assassin10000 said:


> I'd consider the 14.8mm 32Ω titanium driver. It's my second favorite after the OG 15Ω redfilm driver.


Yep, thanks. I'm waiting for this "no name" 32Ω titanium driver, should be arriving pretty soon.
I had also ordered the pk1 150Ω redfilm and 2 slot pk shells for another build. 😀



Spoiler: 32Ω Titanium


----------



## tendou

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Not that anyone was asking for this, but I have had a great day so far listening to some great, highly regarded/recommended buds and I am gonna do more listening, but I switched to my FF3s since they are what I have been listening to the most lately and I wanted to take a break from analyzing new sounds for a minute. The crazy thing is that despite being less expensive than every other earbud I have listened to today (aside from the TRN EMA), they have such a massive and rich sound that they easily compete with and, IMO surpass, many of their significantly more expensive peers and competitors. These FF3s are no freakin' joke!


How good do you think they are for male and female vocal?
For acoustic?
For classical?
Instrument?


----------



## samandhi (Aug 14, 2022)

@JAnonymous5150 BTW! is your name about someone with the initial of "J" or "JA" that wants to be anonymous, who is also crazy (5150)? LOL


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> So to all my DIYers out there, I just got a load of shells, drivers, and other various supplies because, being an experienced modder and DIYer with over ears, IEMs, and amps, I knew right away that I was going to want to do some builds myself. I was wondering, what are some of your favorite tuning tips and tricks? I have been reading up on the subject so I have some pretty good ideas of some things I plan to try, but I figured I would ask the masters.
> 
> Now I'm not looking for anyone to disclose their trade secrets or anything. I'm just looking for any basic tips, tricks, techniques, or knowledge that you guys have picked up along the way that you think a guy looking to put together some decent builds would find useful. Any and all responses will be useful and appreciated.
> 
> If it matters, I have drivers of various sizes, diaphragm materials, and impedances. I've got various MX500 shells, some PK style shells, various metal flathead housings. I've got a lot of different cable making materials with different core materials and  thicknesses. I have access to lathes, multimeters, dremels, drills, a drill press, a cnc machine, soldering supplies, welding supplies (not sure what I would need to weld, but I have my own torches, plasma cutter, and metal fab stuff haha), i have resin pouring and moulding supplies, and a whole lot more. I'm not sure if any of that matters, but I figured I would try to make the situation clear so you guys would know that I can go full on mad scientist if necessary!



DIY earbuds guide

Someone on this thread shared this with me a couple weeks ago (thank you!) Might be helpful to you. I bought tools and components according to this spreadsheet.

For the tuning, I imagine that it wouldn’t that different from tuning DD of IEM: opening back vent = more bass, particularly midbass, opening front vents = dropping bass. No idea what the nozzle dampening corresponds to in earbuds world though.

If I have the means, I would try to 3d print a shell with pipes at the back to increase back volume like Fiio EM5. I would also try to 3D print something to convert earbuds into proper in ears. I imagine these 15.4mm drivers can create massive bass slams.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> DIY earbuds guide
> 
> Someone on this thread shared this with me a couple weeks ago (thank you!) Might be helpful to you. I bought tools and components according to this spreadsheet.
> 
> ...


Ah, that is what I was looking for. I saw that somewhere also.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

tendou said:


> How good do you think they are for male and female vocal?
> For acoustic?
> For classical?
> Instrument?



For classical the FF3s have a huge, dynamic presentation that can make for a a really captivating listen on certain pieces, but for many it doesn't have as much air as I would like. To do classical as a genre really well, I generally prefer a neutral-bright tuning and the FF3s aren't tuned that way.

Both male and female vocals come across rich and and full. I could listen to Amy Winehouse, Norah Jones, Etta James, Sarah Bareillis, Whitney Houston, etc all day long on the FF3s. Michael Buble, Elton John, and Freddy Mercury were some real highlights as far as male vocals go.

For acoustic stuff, the mids of the FF3s have this vibrant, authoritative and very well layered presentation that makes them a pretty darn good match. Jack Johnson's new album was a fun listen and Dashboard Confessional for some acoustic emo brought me right back to high school in Hi-Res lol!

When you say instrument what do you mean? I don't want to answer the wrong question or erroneously, but if you clarify, I will be happy to answer as best as I can.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 14, 2022)

samandhi said:


> @JAnonymous5150 BTW! is your name about someone with the initial of "J" or "JA" that wants to be anonymous, who is also crazy (5150)? LOL



My first and middle initials are J.A. and that's what my close friends and family call me. As for the 5150 thing, I served in the Marines and have a little PTSD so it's a little joke about me lol! My girl and some of my friends make fun of me for being paranoid and stuff sometimes so I started playing along. I actually have a 5150 tattoo next to the radio call sign I used in Afghanistan and a field memorial motif included in the piece covering my back.

Edit: The Anonymous part is because my record company requires me to keep social media and forum accounts anonymous because of some trouble I started once by criticizing a product put out by a drum equipment company that I had an endorsement deal with at the time. They put out a crappy product, people on a drum forum that knew who I was asked about it, I told the truth and it got blown way out of proportion lol! So now my band's contract gives our company full control over any named social media accounts unless they're private or kept "Anonymous" which leads to the name JAnonymous5150!


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> My first and middle initials are J.A. and that's what my close friends and family call me. As for the 5150 thing, I served in the Marines and have a little PTSD so it's a little joke about me lol! My girl and some of my friends make fun of me for being paranoid and stuff sometimes so I started playing along. I actually have a 5150 tattoo next to the radio call sign I used in Afghanistan and a field memorial motif included in the piece covering my back.


First of all thank you for serving! Secondly, good for you for owning it. I know it's no joke for sure (there is no such thing as a "little" PTSD). Also, thanks for sharing that. You didn't have to.

To get back on track, from your last description, now I KNOW I will like the FF3 (or at least what I was looking for with them anyhow). Though I am still not sure if they can dethrone my top pick for all rounders; Yinman 2.0 600, until I hear them.

Btw, and maybe you said it and I either forgot or missed it, but what source are you using with all this new gear? Are you keeping consistent, or experimenting with different ones?


----------



## mt877 (Aug 14, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I served in the Marines...


Hey Leatherneck, thanks for your service. Oorah and Semper Fi!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> First of all thank you for serving! Secondly, good for you for owning it. I know it's no joke for sure (there is no such thing as a "little" PTSD). Also, thanks for sharing that. You didn't have to.
> 
> To get back on track, from your last description, now I KNOW I will like the FF3 (or at least what I was looking for with them anyhow). Though I am still not sure if they can dethrone my top pick for all rounders; Yinman 2.0 600, until I hear them.
> 
> Btw, and maybe you said it and I either forgot or missed it, but what source are you using with all this new gear? Are you keeping consistent, or experimenting with different ones?


Thanks for the kind words. Serving was my pleasure and I'm proud to have done it.

I haven't heard the Yinman 600 long enough to know how well the FF3 stacks up against it. I thought the pair I ordered were in one of the shipments that arrived while I was gone, but alas they are still in route. With that in mind, I will have to hold off on any comparisons there.

I have various amps, DACs, combos, DAPs, and dongles of many descriptions with chips from most major manufacturers and with varying decoding and amplifying abilities. For the earbuds, I have been keeping it consistent for my initial impressions. I have been plugging in to my ifi xDSD Gryphon and my A&K Kann Alpha primarily. I have a Tempotec iDSD that has volume matched 3.5mm jacks that I used for a couple quick AB tests on a few. I have been experimenting beyond that with my new Cayin RU6, Moondrop Dawn, a couple of the Bluetooth combos I have, and a dongle or two, but for the most part that has been limited because I have been trying to move through them to get a basic idea of what the buds I ordered can do and how I want to proceed with further listening and testing.

The first impressions I have posted have all been based on initial listening done solely on the Gryphon and Kann Alpha for the sake of providing a decently consistent rig for shaping my opinions and impressions so no one has to think too hard abouy source differences. When using the Gryphon I have been running Qobuz Hi-Res bit perfect through UAPP off my phone and local files purchased from sources including Qobuz and HDTracks (those two account for the vast majority) ranging from CD Quality to DSD256 (or related equivalents), but the vast majority are FLAC between 24/44.1 to 24/192. The Kann Alpha has been used for streaming Qobuz and playing local files of 24/44.1 to DSD256.

I hope this answered what you were looking for. If you have any more questions feel free to ask. Also, if you have any requests for me to use the buds off a particular source you see below or something with a chip from a certain manufacturer or whatever, chances are I have something that I can do it with so I'll take requests if you have any lol! I have more gear than what's listed in my signature, that's just my primary and/or current stuff, but I have other amps, DACs, components, etc that I have kept from past setups or as backups in case something fails.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> Hey Leatherneck, thanks for your service. Oorah and Semper Fi!



We never quit, we never die, Marines forever, Semper Fi! Thanks, brother!


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> my record company



I didn’t know you are a performing musician. I always thought you are an audio engineer. It’s always cool to hear impressions and opinions from people who produce music. Looking forward for your DIY products.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 15, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> I didn’t know you are a performing musician. I always thought you are an audio engineer. It’s always cool to hear impressions and opinions from people who produce music. Looking forward for your DIY products.


I'm actually a professional drummer. I supported myself as a studio session drummer even as a hired tour drummer for a while, but about 7 years ago my own band actually got signed and about 5 years ago became a full time, financially and artistically successful full time gig. I have been playing drums and sax since I was 5 and have been doing it ever since. Professionally I have been doing studio drumming since I was 17 all the way to now, except for a big break while I was in the USMC. While I was stateside during active duty I still kept performing and doing some occasional studio stuff during breaks because I'm addicted to it lol!

I love exchanging ideas about audio and music with people from all walks of life and about as many genres and mediums as I have the time to be interested in. Now that I'm kinda running my own career so to speak I get a lot of listening time during travel and otherwise. I am the primary songwriter and lyricist for my band so I look at listening to music as doing my job. It's a great way to stay inspired and keep myself from falling in to creative ruts.

I have to ask, what made you think I was an audio engineer? I'm just curious. Those guys, the good ones anyways, can do some very impressive stuff with audio and I have always tried to learn as much as I can off of them so I'll take it as a compliment.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Thanks for the kind words. Serving was my pleasure and I'm proud to have done it.
> 
> I haven't heard the Yinman 600 long enough to know how well the FF3 stacks up against it. I thought the pair I ordered were in one of the shipments that arrived while I was gone, but alas they are still in route. With that in mind, I will have to hold off on any comparisons there.
> 
> ...


A lot more information than I was expecting, and thanks for that. Since you asked about requests, I would like to hear your thoughts on the FF3 and a nice tube presentation. Keep in mind, I will be using a Nutube amp card (module 6P1) from the DX300, but it does have an authentic tube sound to it (but no SS switchover). 


o0genesis0o said:


> I didn’t know you are a performing musician. I always thought you are an audio engineer. It’s always cool to hear impressions and opinions from people who produce music. Looking forward for your DIY products.


Yeah, I kind of thought he was a performer and before I saw that he was in H.S. in the late nineties and was in the Marines, I honestly thought it could possibly have been Joey Allen (great guitarist IMO)... LOL 

But, I digress.


----------



## yaps66

JAnonymous5150 said:


> We never quit, we never die, Marines forever, Semper Fi! Thanks, brother!


I am not American so all this chatter is lost on me! I am from Singapore so had to do my National Service and was in the infantry for a short period before a transferred to the Police.  Did my time there before deciding it was not for me.

Respect though for what you did with the Marines! Kudos!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> A lot more information than I was expecting, and thanks for that. Since you asked about requests, I would like to hear your thoughts on the FF3 and a nice tube presentation. Keep in mind, I will be using a Nutube amp card (module 6P1) from the DX300, but it does have an authentic tube sound to it (but no SS switchover).
> 
> Yeah, I kind of thought he was a performer and before I saw that he was in H.S. in the late nineties and was in the Marines, I honestly thought it could possibly have been Joey Allen (great guitarist IMO)... LOL
> 
> But, I digress.


I wish I was Joey Allen, but I can't play guitar for crap. I know because I have tried lol!


----------



## assassin10000

mt877 said:


> Yep, thanks. I'm waiting for this "no name" 32Ω titanium driver, should be arriving pretty soon.
> I had also ordered the pk1 150Ω redfilm and 2 slot pk shells for another build. 😀
> 
> 
> ...



That looks like an IEM driver not an earbud one. But could work good?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

yaps66 said:


> I am not American so all this chatter is lost on me! I am from Singapore so had to do my National Service and was in the infantry for a short period before a transferred to the Police.  Did my time there before deciding it was not for me.
> 
> Respect though for what you did with the Marines! Kudos!


Serving your country, required or not, is an honorable thing to do. I'm sure your nation thanks you and as a fellow soldier the respect is mutual, brother.

Had I not gotten injured in an explosion and discharged I may very well have turned my service into a career. I really loved being an active duty Marine and was considering it, but fate had other plans and I'm happy with where that's taken me so far so no regrets here.


----------



## samandhi

yaps66 said:


> I am not American so all this chatter is lost on me! I am from Singapore so had to do my National Service and was in the infantry for a short period before a transferred to the Police.  Did my time there before deciding it was not for me.
> 
> Respect though for what you did with the Marines! Kudos!


Respect to you as well for serving both your country and your city my friend... 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> I wish I was Joey Allen, but I can't play guitar for crap. I know because I have tried lol!


LOL nice!

If you feel the need, you are more than welcome to share any of your (or your band's) music you deem fit for consumption by a bunch of hobby music lovers...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> A lot more information than I was expecting, and thanks for that. Since you asked about requests, I would like to hear your thoughts on the FF3 and a nice tube presentation. Keep in mind, I will be using a Nutube amp card (module 6P1) from the DX300, but it does have an authentic tube sound to it (but no SS switchover).
> 
> Yeah, I kind of thought he was a performer and before I saw that he was in H.S. in the late nineties and was in the Marines, I honestly thought it could possibly have been Joey Allen (great guitarist IMO)... LOL
> 
> But, I digress.


Okay so for tubes all I have at my house is an xDuoo MT-602 because I have never been much of a tube guy. Do you want me to run a specific dac with it or just directly plugged into the amp?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> If you feel the need, you are more than welcome to share any of your (or your band's) music you deem fit for consumption by a bunch of hobby music lovers...


I would love to, but the whole anonymity deal with my record company precludes that. I hope you guys understand and don't take it as me not wanting to share or anything.


----------



## o0genesis0o

assassin10000 said:


> That looks like an IEM driver not an earbud one. But could work good?



14.8mm driver seems to be the right one for PK shell. Most IEM drivers on Aliexpress seem to be 13.6mm at most.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay so for tubes all I have at my house is an xDuoo MT-602 because I have never been much of a tube guy. Do you want me to run a specific dac with it or just directly plugged into the amp?


For giggles, just plug into the amp. I really just want to get an idea of an overall tube effect on the signature of the FF3. Thus far, there is really only a couple of buds that I have that sound good from my tube amp (it really only shines with my headphones it seems, and maybe a couple of IEMs). Thanks again....



JAnonymous5150 said:


> I would love to, but the whole anonymity deal with my record company precludes that. I hope you guys understand and don't take it as me not wanting to share or anything.


Totally understand, and kind of thought that MIGHT be the case, but I had to try (damned record companies lol)...


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> Respect to you as well for serving both your country and your city my friend...
> 
> LOL nice!
> 
> If you feel the need, you are more than welcome to share any of your (or your band's) music you deem fit for consumption by a bunch of hobby music lovers...



Mate, you are getting the guy to dox himself   

Anyhow, back to ear buds. Do you think FF3 fits standard drivers Mx500 or Pk driver? It would be fun to open this one up and change the driver and the cable. The cable is getting on my nerves


----------



## samandhi (Aug 15, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Mate, you are getting the guy to dox himself
> 
> Anyhow, back to ear buds. Do you think FF3 fits standard drivers Mx500 or Pk driver? It would be fun to open this one up and change the driver and the cable. The cable is getting on my nerves


I know, and I'm sorry... I really wasn't trying to...

Edit: And CERTAINLY not in a malicious way...


----------



## assassin10000

o0genesis0o said:


> 14.8mm driver seems to be the right one for PK shell. Most IEM drivers on Aliexpress seem to be 13.6mm at most.


Could be. The link you posted didn't work for me.


In other news, just came across this interesting looking bud.





https://m.aliexpress.com/item/3256804195186014.html


----------



## samandhi

assassin10000 said:


> Could be. The link you posted didn't work for me.
> 
> 
> In other news, just came across this interesting looking bud.
> ...


WOW! That is pretty unique looking. Are you buying it to see how it sounds?


----------



## mt877

assassin10000 said:


> That looks like an IEM driver not an earbud one. But could work good?


It's a 14.8mm ti bud driver. The extra pics show a 15mm shell. I asked the seller if the shells were included, but they were only for show and tell.
The drivers should fit the Sharp shell (I hope), we'll see when they arrive.


Spoiler: Other pics


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> For giggles, just plug into the amp. I really just want to get an idea of an overall tube effect on the signature of the FF3. Thus far, there is really only a couple of buds that I have that sound good from my tube amp (it really only shines with my headphones it seems, and maybe a couple of IEMs). Thanks again...



No problem. Let me break the xDuoo out and warm her up and I'll give it a go. Any specific genres or artists you're wanting me to use or do you just want me to continue my current listening session and give you general impressions?


----------



## tendou

JAnonymous5150 said:


> For classical the FF3s have a huge, dynamic presentation that can make for a a really captivating listen on certain pieces, but for many it doesn't have as much air as I would like. To do classical as a genre really well, I generally prefer a neutral-bright tuning and the FF3s aren't tuned that way.
> 
> Both male and female vocals come across rich and and full. I could listen to Amy Winehouse, Norah Jones, Etta James, Sarah Bareillis, Whitney Houston, etc all day long on the FF3s. Michael Buble, Elton John, and Freddy Mercury were some real highlights as far as male vocals go.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your clear descriptition. It seems very good for vocal stuff and acoustic. 

I'm not really sure about terminology but I'm asking about if it can gives natural representation of different instrument.

And for soundtrack, grand symphony type of music? Which I'm not sure if I'm using the word correctly.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> No problem. Let me break the xDuoo out and warm her up and I'll give it a go. Any specific genres or artists you're wanting me to use or do you just want me to continue my current listening session and give you general impressions?


Any would be good, just let me know what genre you DID listen to?? I didn't mean for you to go out of your way. I am getting my set in about three weeks, so I CAN wait. I just thought you had all your equipment at hand, and that it wouldn't take much.


----------



## samandhi

tendou said:


> Thank you for your clear descriptition. It seems very good for vocal stuff and acoustic.
> 
> I'm not really sure about terminology but I'm asking about if it can gives natural representation of different instrument.
> 
> And for soundtrack, grand symphony type of music? Which I'm not sure if I'm using the word correctly.


You got it right...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Mate, you are getting the guy to dox himself
> 
> Anyhow, back to ear buds. Do you think FF3 fits standard drivers Mx500 or Pk driver? It would be fun to open this one up and change the driver and the cable. The cable is getting on my nerves



Believe it or not, I actually ordered a second pair today so I can see about modding the cable and maybe ever crack them open and take a peak inside. I don't want to do it on my original pair because I'm worried I'll mess up whatever magic juju fiio put in the shells/housing. I would imagine changing the shells would have a massive and probably negative effect on the sound, but who knows? I think diameter wise it would fit easily in shells of either type, but based on their marketing about the long stroke movement and all that, I'm not sure without looking at it what kinda thickness we're looking at and what room and air displacement/pressure properties one would need to install the FF3 driver in an off the shelf shell.

I am down to see about taking a look at it once I have a second pair in my hands (Amazon says Thursday, but it usual shows up a day earlier than their estimates in my experience) because I like the FF3s too much to potentially destroy the only pair I have.

Edit: I specifically got the second pair to figure out a workable detachable cable mod for them


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Believe it or not, I actually ordered a second pair today so I can see about modding the cable and maybe ever crack them open and take a peak inside. I don't want to do it on my original pair because I'm worried I'll mess up whatever magic juju fiio put in the shells/housing. I would imagine changing the shells would have a massive and probably negative effect on the sound, but who knows? I think diameter wise it would fit easily in shells of either type, but based on their marketing about the long stroke movement and all that, I'm not sure without looking at it what kinda thickness we're looking at and what room and air displacement/pressure properties one would need to install the FF3 driver in an off the shelf shell.
> 
> I am down to see about taking a look at it once I have a second pair in my hands (Amazon says Thursday, but it usual shows up a day earlier than their estimates in my experience) because I like the FF3s too much to potentially destroy the only pair I have.
> 
> Edit: I specifically got the second pair to figure out a workable detachable cable mod for them


LOL I ordered mine from AE because they had none available on Amazon at the time, so you will have ordered a second pair (and recieved them) about 3 weeks before I get mine at all... 

I am interested to see what they reveal when cracked open also.


----------



## mt877

yaps66 said:


> I am not American so all this chatter is lost on me! I am from Singapore so had to do my National Service and was in the infantry for a short period before a transferred to the Police.  Did my time there before deciding it was not for me.
> 
> Respect though for what you did with the Marines! Kudos!


Thank you for the service to your country as well! No worries about the lingo... just know @JAnonymous5150 understood where I was coming from and it was a show of mutual respect.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

tendou said:


> Thank you for your clear descriptition. It seems very good for vocal stuff and acoustic.
> 
> I'm not really sure about terminology but I'm asking about if it can gives natural representation of different instrument.
> 
> And for soundtrack, grand symphony type of music? Which I'm not sure if I'm using the word correctly.


No problem. For instrumental pieces the FF3s can be a bit of a mixed bag. For any instruments that are largely based in the low end (think drums, stand-up bass, and bass guitar mostly) through the low treble they do quite well, at least with what I have listened to so far. I'm talking about saxophone and trumpet based jazz (John Coltrane, Miles Davis, Charlie Parker, etc), guitar instrumentals (check out Rodrigo y Gabriel's latest release Mettavolution for a real treat), piano stuff was great, and even cello (I like a couple YoYo Ma tracks I heard through the FF3s).

When it comes to flutes, clarinets and even brighter violin pieces the FF3s don't have enough air in the top end for pieces that are carried by a treble based instrument. They don't perform badly, they just aren't as good at that kind of thing as they are at other stuff. And, to be frank, there are better buds out there if you're looking for something to do that well.

For soundtracks, I will have to get back to you because I don't recall listening to any through them. Did you have something in specific you'd like me to look up and give you an opinion on? If you give me a specific soundtrack or tracks from one I can look it up and play it when I get a chance.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> Thank you for the service to your country as well! No worries about the lingo... just know @JAnonymous5150 understood where I was coming from and it was a show of mutual respect.


Absolutely, I am sorry to anyone who felt like we were being cryptic or anything. It was just two guys giving a virtual Marine salute kinda thing. No inside jokes or anything.


@mt877 that was cool BTW! It's not everyday I get called a leatherneck on an earbud thread!


----------



## tendou

JAnonymous5150 said:


> No problem. For instrumental pieces the FF3s can be a bit of a mixed bag. For any instruments that are largely based in the low end (think drums, stand-up bass, and bass guitar mostly) through the low treble they do quite well, at least with what I have listened to so far. I'm talking about saxophone and trumpet based jazz (John Coltrane, Miles Davis, Charlie Parker, etc), guitar instrumentals (check out Rodrigo y Gabriel's latest release Mettavolution for a real treat), piano stuff was great, and even cello (I like a couple YoYo Ma tracks I heard through the FF3s).
> 
> When it comes to flutes, clarinets and even brighter violin pieces the FF3s don't have enough air in the top end for pieces that are carried by a treble based instrument. They don't perform badly, they just aren't as good at that kind of thing as they are at other stuff. And, to be frank, there are better buds out there if you're looking for something to do that well.
> 
> For soundtracks, I will have to get back to you because I don't recall listening to any through them. Did you have something in specific you'd like me to look up and give you an opinion on? If you give me a specific soundtrack or tracks from one I can look it up and play it when I get a chance.


Thank you again.  I'm not really well versed in any specific track actually as I mostly like to listen to vocal in song with interesting lyrics. But for sound track any of the Han Zimmer stuff is good enough.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Absolutely, I am sorry to anyone who felt like we were being cryptic or anything. It was just two guys giving a virtual Marine salute kinda thing. No inside jokes or anything.
> 
> 
> @mt877 that was cool BTW! It's not everyday I get called a leatherneck on an earbud thread!


At least it wasn't "jarhead" and from a civilian.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> For soundtracks, I will have to get back to you because I don't recall listening to any through them. Did you have something in specific you'd like me to look up and give you an opinion on? If you give me a specific soundtrack or tracks from one I can look it up and play it when I get a chance.





tendou said:


> Thank you again.  I'm not really well versed in any specific track actually as I mostly like to listen to vocal in song with interesting lyrics. But for sound track any of the Han Zimmer stuff is good enough.


IMO Variation 15 from Dunkirk - Hans Zimmer is a really good one.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

tendou said:


> Thank you again.  I'm not really well versed in any specific track actually as I mostly like to listen to vocal in song with interesting lyrics. But for sound track any of the Han Zimmer stuff is good enough.


Okay, I'll throw a post up for you after I have a listen.


----------



## mt877

o0genesis0o said:


> Anyhow, back to ear buds. Do you think FF3 fits standard drivers Mx500 or Pk driver? It would be fun to open this one up and change the driver and the cable. The cable is getting on my nerves


The FF3 driver is 14.2mm. 15.4mm and 14.8mm drivers might need some grease and a shoehorn to fit them in...


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> No problem. For instrumental pieces the FF3s can be a bit of a mixed bag. For any instruments that are largely based in the low end (think drums, stand-up bass, and bass guitar mostly) through the low treble they do quite well, at least with what I have listened to so far. I'm talking about saxophone and trumpet based jazz (John Coltrane, Miles Davis, Charlie Parker, etc), guitar instrumentals (check out Rodrigo y Gabriel's latest release Mettavolution for a real treat), piano stuff was great, and even cello (I like a couple YoYo Ma tracks I heard through the FF3s).
> 
> When it comes to flutes, clarinets and even brighter violin pieces the FF3s don't have enough air in the top end for pieces that are carried by a treble based instrument. They don't perform badly, they just aren't as good at that kind of thing as they are at other stuff. And, to be frank, there are better buds out there if you're looking for something to do that well.
> 
> For soundtracks, I will have to get back to you because I don't recall listening to any through them. Did you have something in specific you'd like me to look up and give you an opinion on? If you give me a specific soundtrack or tracks from one I can look it up and play it when I get a chance.



Follow up:

Bach’s Cello suite or Boccherini cello sonatas and concerti are outstanding on FF3 due to the texture and rumble it produces. On most IEM I hear cello as a lower pitched violin (sacrilegious, I know). On FF3, I hear “brrrrm” sound when the bow pulls the string rather than just a low pitched smooth sound. So good.

FF3 is fairly successful with flute concerti by Vivaldi. It sounds sweet and a bit easier on the ears. Even piccolo sounds acceptable. Though, FF3 might to too laid back comparing to the real sound? I don’t know, haven’t heard flute solo for a long time.

Bach Violin sonatas and partitas are quite excellent on FF3, due to the soundstage and the reproduction of reverb / decay. I always think that the room is another player of these violin solo pieces, because the extensive use of chords and double stops require the large sound of the room to sound good. 

Orchestral are quite good due to the way cellos are render. Remember that “brrrm” sound? It gives symphony quite a bit of strength and foundation.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 15, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Any would be good, just let me know what genre you DID listen to?? I didn't mean for you to go out of your way. I am getting my set in about three weeks, so I CAN wait. I just thought you had all your equipment at hand, and that it wouldn't take much.


I'm not done listening yet, but I'm plugged in to the MT602 now and I've been listening to a playlist of mostly Spoon, Interpol, The Blue Stones, The Black Keys, Kings of Leon and that sorta mostly blues inspired indie rock. A few songs in, I have to say that the tubes add a warmth to the FF3s that makes them sound unnaturally veiled on this kind of stripped down rock playlist. Male vocals that sounded nice and edgy before come across a bit blurred.

I have some other genres I want to listen to and some experimenting I want to do still so we'll see what happens from here. Just FYI, this amp is pretty mildly tubey as far as they go. It doesn't add nearly as much warmth to my ZMFs as my buddy's Bottlehead Crack does or as the Woo Audio WA-7 I have borrowed from another friend in the past.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Follow up:
> 
> Bach’s Cello suite or Boccherini cello sonatas and concerti are outstanding on FF3 due to the texture and rumble it produces. On most IEM I hear cello as a lower pitched violin (sacrilegious, I know). On FF3, I hear “brrrrm” sound when the bow pulls the string rather than just a low pitched smooth sound. So good.
> 
> ...


I totally agree with what you have to say about the concertos and the cello sounds. They come across with this detailed fullness to them that is incredibly satisfying to listen to.

For flutes other higher treble based instruments I think that liquid smoothness in the treble that I have mentioned before leaves them sounding unnaturally mellow and takes away some of the airy almost ethereal quality that I love in a good flute piece. However, it's important to note that I did point out that the FF3s don't perform badly with these instruments, rather it's just not as strong of a performance as they offer in other areas. That's all I meant.


----------



## samandhi (Aug 15, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I'm not done listening yet, but I'm plugged in to the MT602 now and I've been listening so a playlist of mostly Spoon, Interpol, The Blue Stones, The Black Keys, Kings of Leon and that sorta mostly blues inspired indie rock. A few songs in, I have to say that they tubes add a warmth to the FF3s that makes them sound unnaturally veiled on this kind of stripped down rock playlist. Male vocals that sounded nice and edgy before come across a bit blurred.
> 
> I have some other genres I want to listen to and some experimenting I want to do still so we'll see what happens from here. Just FYI, this amp is pretty mildly tubey as far as they go. It doesn't add nearly as much warmth to me ZMFs as my buddy's Bottlehead Crack does or as the Woo Audio WA-7 I have borrowed from another friend in the past.


Oh perfect choices as a test! It sounds like they might not sound as good from my tube amp as I had hoped, and especially if your amp isn't as "tubey" as a bottlehead or WA-7 (some serious contenders to be sure)... I wouldn't say mine is as "tubey" as those either, but it DOES offer quite a bit of that tube sound that is noticeable over SS or hybrid (so a bit more than "mildy tubey" most likely).

Just to make sure that I still like my tube amp, I had to switch to my Focal's, and sure enough I just haven't found a set of buds that I like with it just yet (other than the Chaconne). I have tried clear and airy (one that you would think would sound good from one), and a bit veiled sounding to begin with which did NOT work out well...  I lose too much definition in the lower end, and while the general signature of the amp adds warmth, it also adds clarity (typical good tube sound), but in this case, since most of these buds have dips in the treble, but are hot in the pina gain, it really only makes them shrieky, but lacking in resolution overall (which affects the whole range).

It's not imperative, but I would love to find a set that does well with it. It is stellar with the Hifiman Deva and HE400S, Focal Elegia, and is absolutely brilliant with my Sennheiser HD700.

Edit: But I am looking forward to hearing what your "experimenting" nets you in this regard! Thanks again for doing it.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Mate, you are getting the guy to dox himself
> 
> Anyhow, back to ear buds. Do you think FF3 fits standard drivers Mx500 or Pk driver? It would be fun to open this one up and change the driver and the cable. The cable is getting on my nerves


The cable is getting on my nerves as well…. I think you were EQing a little air into the FF3?  I tried it today and it’s brilliant.  I bumped 1kHz up a dB and 8kHz as well.  That was just a rough start.  I may try to do some serious optimization this week.  Line it up to the curve exactly.  So far my curve has aligned really well with both my impressions and the impressions of my own Motley Crue of bud builders.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> The cable is getting on my nerves as well…. I think you were EQing a little air into the FF3?  I tried it today and it’s brilliant.  I bumped 1kHz up a dB and 8kHz as well.  That was just a rough start.  I may try to do some serious optimization this week.  Line it up to the curve exactly.  So far my curve has aligned really well with both my impressions and the impressions of my own Motley Crue of bud builders.


I would be interested to hear how that goes.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> The cable is getting on my nerves as well…. I think you were EQing a little air into the FF3?  I tried it today and it’s brilliant.  I bumped 1kHz up a dB and 8kHz as well.  That was just a rough start.  I may try to do some serious optimization this week.  Line it up to the curve exactly.  So far my curve has aligned really well with both my impressions and the impressions of my own Motley Crue of bud builders.



Yes, I use my FF3 with eq as well. Mostly reducing ear gain, 5k, 8k, and boosting 16k.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Yes, I use my FF3 with eq as well. Mostly reducing ear gain, 5k, 8k, and boosting 16k.


What foams are you using now?


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> What foams are you using now?



Balanced foam


----------



## Ronion (Aug 15, 2022)

lost my graph for the change in pinna gain with the different foams, but this may help guide your EQ.  Your foam choice should have a bit more pinna gain—like 2 dB and my target doesn’t include deep bass or air frequencies.  I consider this a gift when building buds that never sound *bad* in *bud* land.


----------



## rkw

o0genesis0o said:


> The cable is getting on my nerves





Ronion said:


> The cable is getting on my nerves as well


What don't you like about the FF3 cable?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Yes, I use my FF3 with eq as well. Mostly reducing ear gain, 5k, 8k, and boosting 16k.


Oh you kids and your EQ... Don't you know it's more fun to mix and match links in unique audio chains to build something for a given situation? EQ is boring and it doesn't require more gear so I have no use for it lol!


Seriously though, I used to EQ everything and now I tend to prefer mixing and matching gear to build fun chains. I find myself really enjoying searching out and collecting gear that fits what I'm looking for or modding and such.


----------



## Ronion (Aug 15, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Oh you kids and your EQ... Don't you know it's more fun to mix and match links in unique audio chains to build something for a given situation? EQ is boring and it doesn't require more gear so I have no use for it lol!
> 
> 
> Seriously though, I used to EQ everything and now I tend to prefer mixing and matching gear to build fun chains. I find myself really enjoying searching out and collecting gear that fits what I'm looking for or modding and such.


I do like my Qudelix with the FF3 even without EQ.  Everything that was missing has been found now.


rkw said:


> What don't you like about the FF3 cable?


Well, my biggest gripe is no mic, but I do have other cables that get twisted up less and wear/hang a bit nicer.  Very small gripes on the grand scheme of things.  I just have a touch of OCD.  I did make molds of my own ears so that I could know how headphones would measure on me… Just saying.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Oh you kids and your EQ... Don't you know it's more fun to mix and match links in unique audio chains to build something for a given situation?


Oh I would love to. But I'm poor   

Speaking of source's tuning. My DAP based on HiBy OS has a nifty built in PEQ feature that can slightly tweak its tuning. People using my DAP always say: "wow, so musical and airy". Little did they know the PEQ is on. They are in for a shocking surprise when buying the same DAP


----------



## o0genesis0o

rkw said:


> What don't you like about the FF3 cable?



The cable is fine. No memory, no kink, no microphonic. The only problem is it is very stubborn. It forces itself back to the orientation that it wants to be. Such behaviour is fine for IEM, but for earbuds, any force yanking them out of the ears is a bad idea. Thus I want to change the cable


----------



## rkw

Ronion said:


> my biggest gripe is no mic, but I do have other cables that get twisted up less and wear/hang a bit nicer.





o0genesis0o said:


> The cable is fine. No memory, no kink, no microphonic. The only problem is it is very stubborn. It forces itself back to the orientation that it wants to be.


I think both of you are saying that the cable is a bit stiff. I do prefer very flexible cables.

As for no mic, it's rare for an audiophile level headphone, iem, or earbud to come with a cable with mic. Hopefully FF5 will have a detachable cable that you can change to what you need.


----------



## silverszi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Oh you kids and your EQ... Don't you know it's more fun to mix and match links in unique audio chains to build something for a given situation? EQ is boring and it doesn't require more gear so I have no use for it lol!
> 
> 
> Seriously though, I used to EQ everything and now I tend to prefer mixing and matching gear to build fun chains. I find myself really enjoying searching out and collecting gear that fits what I'm looking for or modding and such.


poverty
also 
less equipment to carry and easier to actually achieve what you want


----------



## assassin10000

samandhi said:


> WOW! That is pretty unique looking. Are you buying it to see how it sounds?


Nope. My ears don't like mx500 size shells. Both a good and bad thing. (Good for my wallet, bad for my curiosity.)


mt877 said:


> It's a 14.8mm ti bud driver. The extra pics show a 15mm shell. I asked the seller if the shells were included, but they were only for show and tell.
> The drivers should fit the Sharp shell (I hope), we'll see when they arrive.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Other pics


Ohhh. Sweet. The cover over the outside of the diaphragm in the pics threw me off. I've only seen that on drivers meant for IEM usage.

Weird that it's on one driver but not the other in their pics.


----------



## silverszi

silverszi said:


> poverty
> also
> less equipment to carry and easier to actually achieve what you want


this excludes the lack of global parametric eq being nonexistent on android


----------



## Ronion

rkw said:


> I think both of you are saying that the cable is a bit stiff. I do prefer very flexible cables.
> 
> As for no mic, it's rare for an audiophile level headphone, iem, or earbud to come with a cable with mic. Hopefully FF5 will have a detachable cable that you can change to what you need.


That’s really it.  It’s not very stiff, but you know the OCD thing and the fact that I wear these so much.  Bringing the air frequencies back into them has made them incredibly good.  Ideal really.  Such an easy EQ to do.  The SMABAT ST20 pro took my a couple days to get it really good and is was never as good as this.  I programmed this one while shopping for appliances… anyway, I bet I could solve my cable woes with a cable clip.


----------



## artpiggo

I just knew that rose maria ii is out of stock. Is there any sign that new earbud will come out soon?


----------



## syazwaned

Black-Wolf said:


> Hi,
> I'm not at home for some days, i have the Grand Rider with me bit not the Yinman. I did not have the time to compare them directly (i received the Grand Rider the day before leaving home), so take what i'm going to say with some distance...
> 
> The Grand Rider 1 and the Yinman are Indeed both warm neutral but quite different when you dig further:
> ...


thanks for taking your time.

Based on your impression, the Yinman 600 is more suited to my preference. I use to have VE Zen 2.0 and VE Asura. Love the overall warmth and thickness of the timbre. I gave those two away, still miss them until this day.

Yinman 600 might be a better version of Zen 2.0 and VE Asura 2.0s.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

tendou said:


> Thank you again.  I'm not really well versed in any specific track actually as I mostly like to listen to vocal in song with interesting lyrics. But for sound track any of the Han Zimmer stuff is good enough.


Okay, so I ended up listening to a bunch of Hans Zimmer tracks because I ended up getting quite lost in music so to how well the FF3s fit it. I know I keep mentioning the powerful dynamics and the huge, authoritative presentation of the FF3s. It's probably becoming a little annoying at this point, but it's 100% relevant to my experience listening to Hans Zimmers pieces.

As I'm sure you're aware, Zimmer likes to use dynamic contrasts, crescendo, diminuendo, ect to bring emotion into a given piece. His music will often start off at a relatively low volume and then build and swell, the instruments becoming louder and louder, and the music they're playing often becoming more intricate, as it builds to a peak. The FF3s infuse these surges with a nearly physical power that really draws you in more and more as the volume, urgency, and emotion increases and you find yourself enraptured, looking for the peak, actively wondering where the piece will reach it's crisis.

When the music is at it's most fevered pitch, there's often layer upon layer of sound from various instruments/sections/sources coming from many distinct directions in the 3D soundstage. Again, the FF3s hold your attention as they allow you to explore the layers, listening past the loudest and most obvious, to examine the more subtle or the underlying sounds decorating or driving the piece. Their imaging allows the listener to pick out the direction and source of each sound easily and gives the music a quality of being played all around you and rushing at you or receding away from you at times. Thus, you become part of the music. You feel it. It's interacting with you and you're emotionally involved in the piece.

I literally found myself unwilling to stop listening and was quite upset when the playlist I had selected and played ended. What a ride! The whole experience was quite impressive. Even moreso when you consider that the earbuds playing a central role in the whole thing were the least expensive (99$ really?!?!) part of the audio chain being used. Fiio is going to have to put together a truly epic effort for the FF5s to be an actual successor to the FF3s.

I hope this is helpful. I tried to take you into how I experienced Hans Zimmers music. I have trouble thinking that anyone would be anything but pleased if not outright impressed with how the FF3s reproduce the emotion and epic dynamic interplays common to many of Zimmers pieces. Audio is subjective so I would be naiive to think everyone will love these, but I'm having trouble picturing a listener that couldn't find something to appreciate in the FF3s.


----------



## jeejack

Today we celebrate Saint Mary's Day. I prepared a pair of buds as a gift for a good friend.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 15, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Oh perfect choices as a test! It sounds like they might not sound as good from my tube amp as I had hoped, and especially if your amp isn't as "tubey" as a bottlehead or WA-7 (some serious contenders to be sure)... I wouldn't say mine is as "tubey" as those either, but it DOES offer quite a bit of that tube sound that is noticeable over SS or hybrid (so a bit more than "mildy tubey" most likely).
> 
> Just to make sure that I still like my tube amp, I had to switch to my Focal's, and sure enough I just haven't found a set of buds that I like with it just yet (other than the Chaconne). I have tried clear and airy (one that you would think would sound good from one), and a bit veiled sounding to begin with which did NOT work out well...  I lose too much definition in the lower end, and while the general signature of the amp adds warmth, it also adds clarity (typical good tube sound), but in this case, since most of these buds have dips in the treble, but are hot in the pina gain, it really only makes them shrieky, but lacking in resolution overall (which affects the whole range).
> 
> ...


So here's a summary of what I did experimentation wise with the FF3s and the MT-602:

First, I did some experimentation with the foams. I tried the FF3s with no foams as a start, thinking that would potentially provide the brightest version of the FF3s to work with and thus counteract some of the blurriness in the mids that the tubes seem to add. There was a noticeable change in a brightening of the treble, but it didn't do much in terms of countering the problems I noted with the mids. I then tried a series of thinner foams, some alternate donuts, and even a set of silicone rings I found that I didn't even know I had when searching for a particular bag of foams (score! lol!). No matter what I tried, the foam changes didn't do much to alleviate the problem and sometimes made it worse so I switched back to the stock foams to continue with some other testing for the sake of consistency and because I think they have a claim for being my favorite foams with the FF3s.

Next, I called up my friend and resident tube expert. I have a buddy who is an engineer at a studio and deep into the headphones and tubes game. I told him what I was hearing and that I was wondering if my MT-602 or the tubes I had in it were known for laying on the harmonic distortion (what we have previously called tubeyness) particularly thick and if there was anything I could do to clean up the mids. His response was that the MT-602 isn't the problem and is pretty middle of the road regarding it's tube characteristics and that it's a pretty clean tube amp. However, he reproached me like only a tube addict or a disappointed parent can for not having moved on to better tubes than the stock pair that came installed when I purchased the amp. I went by his house and left with some NOS GE tubes to install that he said would be much nicer. Though he warned that tubes are inherently difficult to match with small tranducer mediums like IEMs and earbuds because the tubeyness and warmth imparted by a tube amp seems to effect them in different and sometimes greater ways (I had to listen to over an hour of theories and hypotheses about why this might be, but I won't put you through that).

I came back home, installed the GEs (he says they are "pre baked" as he has put enough hours on them that I don't have to worry about breaking them in), and let them warm up. I put on the same playlist and got to listening. I was quite surprised by the effect of the GE tubes as the added some sparkle back to the treble, cleaned up the edges on the bass notes, and even made the mids slightly less fuzzy. Overall, the listening experience was much better with the new GE tubes, but still the intoduction of tubes seemed to add some tube warmth, but at the expense of some clarity in the mids in particular, and some tightness and control in the low end. This was true regardless of which pair of tubes I was using.

To me the next obvious step was to see if, despite the assurances of my friend, this was just a property of the particular tube amp I was using, my xDuoo MT-602, or if it was common to tube amps in general. A text, a phone call, and a 45 minute roundtrip later I came home from another friend's house with his Woo Audio WA-7 and his Schiit Valhalla 2, both equipped with the tubes he felt would provide the best possibility for keeping the detail and clenliness in the mid range. He even went so far as to listen to the FF3s over my ifi Gryphon so he would know what I was working with. As a side note of some interest, he was pretty impressed and texted me this morning to say he ordered a pair of the FF3s lol!

It was the wee hours of the morning by the time I got done listening to both of the newcomers to see how they worked. Disappointingly, the results with the blurred mids seem to be common to all 3 tube amps I used, the difference was to what extent. There was much more variance in how each amp effected and presented the treble in particular than there was in the presentation of the mids which maintained the same basic and flawed character. i did some switching back and forth between the tubes, the Gryphon, and a couple solid state amplifiers (Topping nx1s and the JDSLabs El Amp 2+) to see how much of the blurriness in the mids was attributable to the tubes and to make sure that the Gryphon wasn't cleaning up a problem that actually existed in the FF3s themselves. The mids in the FF3s remained clear when using solid state amplifiers and my phone without a dedicated DAC so I can put that concern to rest. I went to sleep at 4:30AM and left further experimentations for today.

I plan to test at some point today to see how much using an ultra clean and even clinical or digital sounding DAC might clean up the mids, but I haven't done it yet so you'll have to wait for a post later on...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

jeejack said:


> Today we celebrate Saint Mary's Day. I prepared a pair of buds as a gift for a good friend.


These look really clean! What's the sound/tuning like, if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## jeejack

JAnonymous5150 said:


> These look really clean! What's the sound/tuning like, if you don't mind me asking?


Warm, bassy, smooth, good vocals and treble


----------



## JAnonymous5150

jeejack said:


> Warm, bassy, smooth, good vocals and treble


So where does one sign up to be your friend, buddy? We're going to get along great!

Haha! Seriously though, your friend is lucky to have a buddy making him/her/them such good looking and sounding gifts.


----------



## rkw

artpiggo said:


> I just knew that rose maria ii is out of stock. Is there any sign that new earbud will come out soon?


Rose produced a series of earbuds in the same distinctive, recognizable design: Mojito, Masya, Masya 2, Maria, Maria 2.

But their next release was Martini, a completely different design with a retro look like Aiwa from the 1990's: https://penonaudio.com/rose-martini.html. It hasn't been discussed much but there are a couple of reviews here:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/rose-martini.25751/


----------



## jeejack

JAnonymous5150 said:


> So where does one sign up to be your friend, buddy? We're going to get along great!
> 
> Haha! Seriously though, your friend is lucky to have a buddy making him/her/them such good looking and sounding gifts.


We will definitely get along great! I am giving them to a friend who also fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. Who knows, maybe you know each other 😉


----------



## o0genesis0o (Aug 15, 2022)

jeejack said:


> Today we celebrate Saint Mary's Day. I prepared a pair of buds as a gift for a good friend.


Hey buddy! It's me, your pal  

Joke aside, that's a seriously good looking cable. Is there any earbuds DIY shell that is as fancy as the cable?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

jeejack said:


> We will definitely get along great! I am giving them to a friend who also fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. Who knows, maybe you know each other 😉


I know a lot of vets, but I'm still working towards knowing every single soldier who fought in Iraq and Afghanistan lol! I'm sure he'll dig the buds, man. If they sound half as good as they look, he's in for a real treat.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

rkw said:


> Rose produced a series of earbuds in the same distinctive, recognizable design: Mojito, Masya, Masya 2, Maria, Maria 2.
> 
> But their next release was Martini, a completely different design with a retro look like Aiwa from the 1990's: https://penonaudio.com/rose-martini.html. It hasn't been discussed much but there are a couple of reviews here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/rose-martini.25751/


I haven't tried the Mojitos I bought yet, but so far I like the Maria IIs significantly more than the Martinis which I quickly resold after deciding they just weren't my thing.

Which are your favorite?


----------



## jeejack

o0genesis0o said:


> Hey buddy! It's me, your pal
> 
> Joke aside, that's a seriously good looking cable. Is there any earbuds DIY shell that is as fancy as the cable?


Hey buddy here you can find some models
NSC Audio DIY Store
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mtW6Oc4


----------



## o0genesis0o

jeejack said:


> Hey buddy here you can find some models
> NSC Audio DIY Store
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mtW6Oc4



Thanks for the pointer. I got a metal shell and a beryllium driver from that store last week. Waiting for delivery.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

jeejack said:


> Hey buddy here you can find some models
> NSC Audio DIY Store
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mtW6Oc4


One of the earbuds that showed up with my latest AE order is a metal shelled LCP driver earbud that I bought from that NSC store on a whim. I haven't tried it yet, but it looked too good to pass up at the time. Have you tried any of their DIY buds/flatheads?


----------



## jeejack

JAnonymous5150 said:


> One of the earbuds that showed up with my latest AE order is a metal shelled LCP driver earbud that I bought from that NSC store on a whim. I haven't tried it yet, but it looked too good to pass up at the time. Have you tried any of their DIY buds/flatheads?


Only their drivers! No premade buds for me. I always end up opening them


----------



## artpiggo

rkw said:


> Rose produced a series of earbuds in the same distinctive, recognizable design: Mojito, Masya, Masya 2, Maria, Maria 2.
> 
> But their next release was Martini, a completely different design with a retro look like Aiwa from the 1990's: https://penonaudio.com/rose-martini.html. It hasn't been discussed much but there are a couple of reviews here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/rose-martini.25751/


Actually, I would like to try maria ii because many reviews said it has the widest stage. However, I cannot buy it anymore. 😭


----------



## tendou

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay, so I ended up listening to a bunch of Hans Zimmer tracks because I ended up getting quite lost in music so to how well the FF3s fit it. I know I keep mentioning the powerful dynamics and the huge, authoritative presentation of the FF3s. It's probably becoming a little annoying at this point, but it's 100% relevant to my experience listening to Hans Zimmers pieces.
> 
> As I'm sure you're aware, Zimmer likes to use dynamic contrasts, crescendo, diminuendo, ect to bring emotion into a given piece. His music will often start off at a relatively low volume and then build and swell, the instruments becoming louder and louder, and the music they're playing often becoming more intricate, as it builds to a peak. The FF3s infuse these surges with a nearly physical power that really draws you in more and more as the volume, urgency, and emotion increases and you find yourself enraptured, looking for the peak, actively wondering where the piece will reach it's crisis.
> 
> ...


thank you! Seems a very great buds


----------



## gordonli (Aug 15, 2022)

Next of the fun buds arrived. This one from OngOng Store. Typing these impressions as I listen.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003240419273.html

The 15.4mm 300 Ohm light blue PET is inside according to the seller when I asked. I am lazy to diy myself  

Standard MX500 shell. Cable is worryingly thin and might break easy on the go. All cost in driver?



Spoiler: pics












But how does it sound? Tuned surprisingly well. Slightest musical warmth below 150hz. Extends well to 60hz.
Otherwise smooth and linear across the range, with the slightest pinna gain, that might actually be below neutral.
The highest octaves (8k+) are also slightly soft, lacking a bit of definition and air. Not dark or muffled. Just softer.
Male vocals are very natural. Higher pitched female vocals and classical instruments are a touch away from hifi.
Great dynamics and detail (but lacking that final upper octave crispness and extension)
Good earbud stage and separation, that I am finding is common to non-commercial buds (4 that I own). I'm not even surprised anymore.

Budget and not on-the-go?  No idea how consistent they tune between buds though.

Next one coming...


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> So here's a summary of what I did experimentation wise with the FF3s and the MT-602:
> 
> First, I did some experimentation with the foams. I tried the FF3s with no foams as a start, thinking that would potentially provide the brightest version of the FF3s to work with and thus counteract some of the blurriness in the mids that the tubes seem to add. There was a noticeable change in a brightening of the treble, but it didn't do much in terms of countering the problems I noted with the mids. I then tried a series of thinner foams, some alternate donuts, and even a set of silicone rings I found that I didn't even know I had when searching for a particular bag of foams (score! lol!). No matter what I tried, the foam changes didn't do much to alleviate the problem and sometimes made it worse so I switched back to the stock foams to continue with some other testing for the sake of consistency and because I think they have a claim for being my favorite foams with the FF3s.
> 
> ...


Man, I feel like I owe you some gas money, or a sandwich, or energy drink, or something. I got tired just reading about how much running/calling you did. You certainly weren't giving up on "a first listen" were you? 

I simply can't wait to read what happens in this story next. I salute you for your "sticktuitiveness" on a goal. Thank you again for running these experiments (running seems to be the literal key word here hehe).


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Man, I feel like I owe you some gas money, or a sandwich, or energy drink, or something. I got tired just reading about how much running/calling you did. You certainly weren't giving up on "a first listen" were you?
> 
> I simply can't wait to read what happens in this story next. I salute you for your "sticktuitiveness" on a goal. Thank you again for running these experiments (running seems to be the literal key word here hehe).


You don't owe me anything. I like doing stuff like this! I had to have everything off in my house from 5 to 7 because my area of SoCal does these power saving times generally one night a week during the summer where they ask you to save energy and if you do you get pretty nice cuts on your energy bill. Give me maybe an hour and I should be finished with the last if what I was doing and I'll post my conclusion.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 15, 2022)

artpiggo said:


> Actually, I would like to try maria ii because many reviews said it has the widest stage. However, I cannot buy it anymore. 😭


The *Rose Technics Maria II* really does offer a wondrously wide soundstage that I could easily label them the '*queen of soundstage (widest) of all flathead earbuds*'. Another earbud offering such wide and open staging would be the *Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis* which I would easily give the honorable title of '*king of soundstage (widest) of all flathead earbuds*'. Though mind you the *Dendroaspis Viridis *has no where the detail and/or resolution of the *Maria II*... it lacks the resolution (imaging and detail) to offer the same depth as offered by the *Maria II*. The *Dendroaspis Viridis* has an edginess and brightness about it that many do not like and find "off-putting"... the *Maria II* is far more behaved in this regards but also can still fatiguing for/to some listeners. Unfortunately, I found the *Dendroaspis Viridis* to be too bright and even too harsh and aggressive for my tastes but if you like treble and can handle "the peaky focused highs" this might be a worthy alternate consideration for you if you are seeking speaker-like presentation with wide soundstage (though lacking in depth).

There is yet another viable contender for the *'king of soundstage (widest) of all flathead earbuds*'... the *Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600 LE*. The grand airiness imparted by this earbud is astounding... quite speaker-like in many regards, and thus offering very wide and very deep (layered) staging as well.  Though this is a high impedance earbud and although it does in fact play very well with meager sources (dongle DACs and straight from my iPhone 13 Mini), it truly, truly shines when scaled with more power.

*2020 - Rose Technics Maria II; 14Ω (two sizes: 16mm or 14.8mm)*​*2020 - Toneking (MrZ - MusicMaker) Dendroaspis Viridis; 32Ω (aka Green Mamba)*​*2022 - Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600 LE; 600Ω*​


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> There is another viable contender for the *'king of soundstage (widest) of all flathead earbuds*' is the *Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600 LE*... the airiness imparted by this earbud is astounding... quite speaker-like in many regards, and thus offers very wide staging as well. Though this is a high impedance earbud and although it does in fact play very well with meager sources (dongle DACs and straight from my iPhone 13 Mini), it truly shines when scaled with more power.


I have to agree here, though I can't compare to the other set, I DO have that Maria II and the Yinman can, and do give a pretty even fight for soundstage.  I was surprised the first time I put them into my ears as to how airy they can be. Being a warm signature, it surprised me a bit.


----------



## samandhi

From my newfound brother @FranQL:



Spoiler:  FQL Blackhole Redux












So far, these are spectacular! I need to listen to them more before trying to give the whole story behind their sound but suffice to say they have an overall similar signature to the Yinman 2.0 600, but have some differences/improvements also.


----------



## gordonli

The final shot in the dark purchase was the Elfinear DIY 500 ohm 15.4mm. (Found it on WoodyLuvrs timeline.) The shells are so cute! 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003741862098.html



Spoiler: pic









I was deciding between the 500 and 600 ohm and the seller recommended this over the 600 when I asked for good dynamics and detail from a fast driver.

Anyway, it has a fun bassy tuning. Comforting, well extended bass. Throat-tapping midbass, and apparent subbass. Above the bass it's neutral. The downwards travel from boosted bass to mids is linear. Then a neutral pinna gain and well extended highs.
I don't want to talk about this one too much because I have become unsused to bass boosts for extended listening since a few months ago when I stopped using bassy IEMs and treated my 2.1 setup, and so find it hard to judge.
But I can say that I do turn the volume up to listen as the boost is confined to the bass, and thus hear the mids and highs very clearly. 
Very natural classical music. Natural vocals. Male vocals are a bit warm but natural. When you get music with kicks and basslines is when the boost kicks in.
Stage is very wide, wider than the last OngOng bud. Wider than deep, but fairly deep. Music just sounds very open and in space.
Hard to fault the dynamics or detail, very excellent (for a bud).

Next...looking to pick up either the FF5, Yinman 600, or RW-3000. But over them all, most hopeful for the results of tgxear's planar. Ttake my energy!!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

WoodyLuvr said:


> The *Rose Technics Maria II* really does offer a wondrously wide soundstage that I could easily label them the '*queen of soundstage (widest) of all flathead earbuds*'. Another earbud offering such wide and open staging would be the *Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis* which I would easily give the honorable title of '*king of soundstage (widest) of all flathead earbuds*'. Though mind you the *Dendroaspis Viridis *has no where the detail and/or resolution of the *Maria II*... it lacks the resolution (imaging and detail) to offer the same depth as offered by the *Maria II*. The *Dendroaspis Viridis* has an edginess and brightness about it that many do not like and find "off-putting"... the *Maria II* is far more behaved in this regards but also can still fatiguing for/to some listeners. Unfortunately, I found the *Dendroaspis Viridis* to be too bright and even too harsh and aggressive for my tastes but if you like treble and can handle "the peaky focused highs" this might be a worthy alternate consideration for you if you are seeking speaker-like presentation with wide soundstage (though lacking in depth).


Woah! How dare you disparage my Toneking Viridis like this! They are harsh and lack the resolution to provide depth? I'm gonna have to disagree here. I've got these two buds literally side by side on my lap and I have listened to both today because I was comparing how they render female vocalists against each other. While I would say that the Maria IIs might have a touch more detail, the difference in resolving abilities between the two is minimal, IMO. As for the Virids not resolving enough to provide depth, I actually really enjoy the width and depth they provide, forming a nice 3D sphere of sound for me to sit happily inside. Moving on to harsh, I guess I could see how someone who's treble sensitive might not enjoy the Viridis, but if you're like me and you're not treble sensitive, these bad boys come across with soaring highs and as much delicacy and detail in the treble as I have ever heard in an earbud. For me, there is no harshness to be found.

I'm not sure we can even be friends anymore, dude. I kinda feel the way I did back in middle school when my friend called my mom a bitch and that episode ended with me getting suspended from school for sockin' him up! We didn't speak again until we were 16!

Obviously I'm just kidding! I won't be going blows over earbuds anytime soon and I'm still willing to be your friend if we agree to disagree over the Viridis. Deal?

So to the poster you were replying to: Remember, there are two sides to every coin. The Viridis are actually one of my favorite buds. I wouldn't write them off too soon because I'm not the only one who has these opinions about the Viridis just as I'm sure Woody isn't the only one who feels the way he does about them. As with many things in audio, you may just have to take a listen to find where your opinion falls on the Viridis.


----------



## yaps66

JAnonymous5150 said:


> So here's a summary of what I did experimentation wise with the FF3s and the MT-602:
> 
> First, I did some experimentation with the foams. I tried the FF3s with no foams as a start, thinking that would potentially provide the brightest version of the FF3s to work with and thus counteract some of the blurriness in the mids that the tubes seem to add. There was a noticeable change in a brightening of the treble, but it didn't do much in terms of countering the problems I noted with the mids. I then tried a series of thinner foams, some alternate donuts, and even a set of silicone rings I found that I didn't even know I had when searching for a particular bag of foams (score! lol!). No matter what I tried, the foam changes didn't do much to alleviate the problem and sometimes made it worse so I switched back to the stock foams to continue with some other testing for the sake of consistency and because I think they have a claim for being my favorite foams with the FF3s.
> 
> ...


That is both epic and dedicated.  The effort you put into the test and the obvious joy you got out of it came through in your detailed impressions.  Kudos man!  You are certainly an asset to this community and certainly an aspiration to many of us!


----------



## samandhi

yaps66 said:


> That is both epic and dedicated.  The effort you put into the test and the obvious joy you got out of it came through in your detailed impressions.  Kudos man!  You are certainly an asset to this community and certainly an aspiration to many of us!


Ditto.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

yaps66 said:


> That is both epic and dedicated.  The effort you put into the test and the obvious joy you got out of it came through in your detailed impressions.  Kudos man!  You are certainly an asset to this community and certainly an aspiration to many of us!


Aww shucks...

Thanks for the kind words man!


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 15, 2022)

And now the conclusion of the Tubes & FF3 Saga. Will they live happily ever after or has their future together been doomed from the start? Let's find out! Now back to our feature presentation...

For the last phase of my testing, it seemed to me that it would make sense to try dac pairings that seemed like they might have the potential to harness the tube warmth and musicality that people seem to love so much, but keep the mids clean and detailed and the bass articulate and well controlled for the FF3s at the end of the audio chain.

Let me start by relieving the tension by saying that I did experience some success with this. I have a topping A90 DAC that's known for being so clean it can be digital sounding. I am shipping this guy out to a new owner tomorrow so I figured I would give it a send off by using it in my testing. So i plugged the A90 in to the MT-602 and the WA-7 (in separate tests, not simultaneously lol) because these were the two amps that had the most mild effects on the mids to begin with. To keep it brief, with both the added clenliness of the A90 reintroduced quite a bit of that brisk mid range detail, more with the WA-7, but to a considerable degree with the MT-602 too.

However, the clinical tonality of the DAC and the tube warmth of either amp lead to a couple areas where there was some unnatural timbral qualities. Most notably in the high mids where female voices came across with a nasal, even honky quality sometimes and in the treble where cymbals had an oddly uneven ringing quality from the initial strike through the decay and in things like high piano notes that apmost sounded like they were coming from a synth and not an actual piano. This was very weird and once I heard it I couldn't ignore it. My rush of joy at having possibly solved (to an extent) our problem in the mids was dashed in an instant.

By way of a conclusion, I would say this: If you are absolutely dead set on using tubes with your FF3s, or other earbuds I suppose, and you have the time, the gear access or money, and the patience/persistence to do extensive component matching tests you can probably find a DAC and tube amp combo that will work fine with them. Another possibility is that you might just get lucky and have that one magic tube setup that sounds great from the jump, but this seems pretty unlikely. Even if you find the key to this little tube earbud riddle, will it sound as good as a good clean solid state setup or be as versatile? I supposed anything's possible so never say never, but I HIGHLY doubt it.

My solid state setups, and I mean all of the SS setups I have used with the FF3s, sounded better, cleaner, and more natural with these buds. And I must say, that I don't think that represents my preferrence for solid state setups. I think the tube setups were objectively not as well matched. Some of you tube experts and aficionados might have better luck and/or more skill so keep me/us posted on your ventures into tube land experiements with the FF3s.

For kicks I also tried the WA-7 and MT-602 with my AKM chip based SMSL DAC, which is known for being more musical, and the timbral problems disappeared, but the problems with the mids and bass reappeared and were possibly even increased to an extent. I think if you had a pair of particularly bright buds that you were looking to take the mids and highs on and maybe even fill out an anemic low end, you might have some success with a similar setup. Overall, I think the FF3s presentation in particular just might not marry well with tubes.

I hope this was helpful and enjoyable. I had fun doing the tests and being a tube swapper for a day and a half, but I'm currently going through some intensive solid state therapy with my trusty FF3s and they sound delicious!

Edit: forgot to tag @samandhi so I can be sure he sees this!


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> And now the conclusion of the Tubes & FF3 Saga. Will they live happily ever after or has their future together been doomed from the start? Let's find out! Now back to our feature presentation...
> 
> For the last phase of my testing, it seemed to me that it would make sense to try dac pairings that seemed like they might have the potential to harness the tube warmth and musicality that people seem to love so much, but keep the mids clean and detailed and the bass articulate and well controlled for the FF3s at the end of the audio chain.
> 
> ...


That was an amazing journey, as well as being very articulate. Many thanks for being so thorough and complete. It is pretty obvious how passionate you are about (all of) this! 

It might just come down to another bud that prefers SS (which I am also fine with).  I know @WoodyLuvr has a tube amp that is set up for buds, and I have to wonder what tubes he uses to get the desired sound he likes without compromises?! Not that I can do any tube rolling with the portable (Nutube) version though.

Thankfully I have several amp cards with my DAP, so I can do SOME amp "rolling" (2 SS and 1 tube). This has been a godsend (more than I would have thought in the beginning) for having multiple head gear. I guess I shall have to wait until I get my set to see if my ears agree with yours in the end, though it certainly won't be the same since I don't have any of the gear you have been testing with. 

I am actually a bit glad that they are some time away from here because, while I do want to give them the attention they probably deserve, right now I am immersed in evaluating the sound of the FQL Blackhole Redux (and the Hook-X too). It REALLY is amazing what can be done with a DIY set (this being not only my first DIY pair, but also my first true MX500 shell type). I would never have guessed at the driver that is in them. I have the same driver in another set, and they sound nothing like the new ones.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 16, 2022)

samandhi said:


> That was an amazing journey, as well as being very articulate. Many thanks for being so thorough and complete. It is pretty obvious how passionate you are about (all of) this!
> 
> It might just come down to another bud that prefers SS (which I am also fine with).  I know @WoodyLuvr has a tube amp that is set up for buds, and I have to wonder what tubes he uses to get the desired sound he likes without compromises?! Not that I can do any tube rolling with the portable (Nutube) version though.
> 
> ...


I actually know another guy that has a tube setup that he uses for buds sometimes as well, but he's out of the country ATM so I wasn't able to get ahold of him in time to find out what he uses. He works with Doctors Without Borders and is somewhere in Uzbekistan working with Afghan exiles who bounced to their Uzbek neighbors when the Taliban took over again so I figured I wouldn't ask him to use some of his precious internet or sat phone time to answer tube/earbud questions lol!

I tried to make it clear that I'm sure someone with adequate time,l and resources with more tube expertise than I have could likely pull off a setup that works well.

What DAP do you have that you're rotating these amp cards through, if you don't mind me asking?

And as always, you're welcome and thanks for the kind words. I typed it all on my phone so forgive the random typos. I have big thumbs and sometimes they don't work well with a phone screen keyboard, if you know what I mean. The whole thing was pretty fun!

Edit: I should also add that the timbre problems I experienced persisted with a second ESS based DAC. Apparently I forgot to include that in the original conclusion post.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I actually know another guy that has a tube setup that he uses for buds sometimes as well, but he's out of the country ATM so I wasn't able to get ahold of him in time to find out what he uses. He works with Doctors Without Borders and is somewhere in Uzbekistan working with Afghan exiles who bounced to their Uzbek neighbors when the Taliban took over again so I figured I wouldn't ask him to use some of his precious internet or sat phone time to answer tube/earbud questions lol!
> 
> I tried to make it clear that I'm sure someone with adequate time,l and resources with more tube expertise than I have could likely pull off a setup that works well.
> 
> ...


Yeah, that would be like calling an astronaut while in space to ask where they left their keys or something... LOL I totally get that. 

I am using the iBasso DX300 (quad Cirrus DACs) with the amp cards of: Amp11MKII (7.2Vrms, 1.2W @32 ohms & 2A), Amp13 Nutube 6P1 module (200mW low voltage output, & 600mW high voltage output), and Amp12 (8Vrms, 2W @32 ohms & 2.4A). They discontinued it for the lack of parts (the DAC chips) for the DX320 (dual Rohm DACs). Otherwise, it is the same device. 

Oh, there is no way I could type that much on a phone... Good on you though, there AREN'T many errors at all. 

Do you have anything with a Rohm DAC? I think Cayin and iBasso are the only ones atm that have that particular chip. I have really been more impressed with the Cirrus DAC (Wolfsen was folded into this) than I thought I might, and it has certainly been "flagship" worthy in the DX300 IMHO.


----------



## jeejack (Aug 16, 2022)

samandhi said:


> I am actually a bit glad that they are some time away from here because, while I do want to give them the attention they probably deserve, right now I am immersed in evaluating the sound of the FQL Blackhole Redux (and the Hook-X too). It REALLY is amazing what can be done with a DIY set (this being not only my first DIY pair, but also my first true MX500 shell type). I would never have guessed at the driver that is in them. I have the same driver in another set, and they sound nothing like the new ones.


That's why I don't buy premade buds. BTW... they are very good drivers


----------



## samandhi

jeejack said:


> That's why I don't buy premade buds. BTW... they are very good drivers


You are right. They are indeed very good drivers.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Yeah, that would be like calling an astronaut while in space to ask where they left their keys or something... LOL I totally get that.
> 
> I am using the iBasso DX300 (quad Cirrus DACs) with the amp cards of: Amp11MKII (7.2Vrms, 1.2W @32 ohms & 2A), Amp13 Nutube 6P1 module (200mW low voltage output, & 600mW high voltage output), and Amp12 (8Vrms, 2W @32 ohms & 2.4A). They discontinued it for the lack of parts (the DAC chips) for the DX320 (dual Rohm DACs). Otherwise, it is the same device.
> 
> ...


No Rohn DACs here. I have single and dual cirrus 43131 and dual 43198, I have so many ESS and AKM permutations that I'd have to check them all to get all the configs and model numbers right, but everything from single to quad ESS and single and dual AKM, I have a DAP (which can be used as a DAC) and an older DAC with Burr-Brown chips (single on both), i have an ancient receiver around here somewhere with a wolfson in it, and I have dongles of almost every description I can think of (even some super cheapies with conexant and alc chips in them).

Like I said, I like having options lol!


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> No Rohn DACs here. I have single and dual cirrus 43131 and dual 43198, I have so many ESS and AKM permutations that I'd have to check them all to get all the configs and model numbers right, but everything from single to quad ESS and single and dual AKM, I have a DAP (which can be used as a DAC) and an older DAC with Burr-Brown chips (single on both), i have an ancient receiver around here somewhere with a wolfson in it, and I have dongles of almost every description I can think of (even some super cheapies with conexant and alc chips in them).
> 
> Like I said, I like having options lol!


LOL Apparently you do at that. I all but stopped looking once acquiring this DAP. It does it all, and I really have no need to have a desktop setup because this DAP can be that too (or a DAC, reverse BT DAC, etc...). The only thing that I can't do is change the overall signature that the DAC offers as a "house" sound. Thankfully the iBasso has a really nice neutral/warm sound (unlike its little brother the DX240 that has a neutral/bright sig), which I like a lot. 

I also use the iBasso DX160, which is very similar in overall sound signature to the DX300 but with only dual DACs, and slower SOC, etc... (you know the compromises they make for mid-tier stuff). I also have some older OG FiiO DAPs that aren't quite retired as of yet. 

Having said that, I find that I am well equipped to drive anything/everything up to and including 600 ohms. While I CAN listen to the Yinmans (for instance) on 600mW, it is flat and a bit boring. Surprisingly, I can actually get some volume from them though. Now, on the Amp12 card (8Vrms), That is another story... 

With all of this side experimenting you have been doing, have you had a chance to audition any more of your (plethora of) buds, or have you put that on hold for a time?

Also, did you find what you were looking for on the DIY subject? I am curious to read about your endeavors with DIY in this medium type.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

samandhi said:


> I know @WoodyLuvr has a tube amp that is set up for buds...


*SACThailand Classic 45 SE - Earbud Edition*

It is a custom-made amp specifically designed and wired to drive earbuds. Even the transformers were specifically wound and matched to the tubes being used. These Silk Transformers were customized as well and were made to be adjustable for "future-proofing".



samandhi said:


> ...I have to wonder what tubes he uses to get the desired sound he likes without compromises?!


The almighty linear Type 45 which is legendary for its headphone acoustic properties.


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> *SACThailand Classic 45 SE - Earbud Edition*
> 
> It is a custom-made amp specifically designed and wired to drive earbuds. Even the transformers were specifically wound and matched to the tubes being used. These Silk Transformers were customized as well and were made to be adjustable for "future-proofing".
> 
> ...


Not sure if I mentioned it when I "liked" that picture then, but now I say to you <drool>...


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 16, 2022)

One of the random budget pairs I bought was a pair of Openheart mmcx earbuds. I had good luck with a pair of their cheap open back headphones being decent (i ended up harvesting the chassis and cups for a DIY pair bc they were so well built) and I figured I'd see if the apparent quality carries over to other products in their shop. I'll include a link below.

So these buds are actually quite well built. They have metal shells with a black finish and silver accents that feel and look damn good! As for sound, I am surprised at the depth of the bass which goes quite low. They don't have the midbass emphasis and punch that you hear many earbuds using to beef up their low end, but instead they give you a more balanced sub and mid bass presentation that is more linear and actually has some nice rumble to it when the bass guitat goes low for instance. The mids are decidedly recessed, but still of decent quality and they have nice detail to them. The treble is smooth and provides above average detail for earbuds in this price range with no noticeable sibilance so far, though maybe not quite as much sparkle as some might like.

If anyone out there is looking for an easy to drive pair of flathead buds that have a good fun signature for most modern music (haven't checked to see how they perform with much else yet), very nice bass, high build quality, and are ready to be matched with your favorite mmcx cable all for $15 (less with points and coupons) you shouldn't overlook this offering from Openheart in your search. I'm quite pleased with these and with Openheart's quality budget stuff in general.

Edit: Link is here https://m.aliexpress.com/item/40011...JustForYou_1167170478.0&gatewayAdapt=Pc2Msite


----------



## ttorbic

JAnonymous5150 said:


> One of the random budget pairs I bought was a pair of Openheart mmcx earbuds. I had good luck with a pair of their cheap open back headphones being decent (i ended up harvesting the chassis and cups for a DIY pair bc they were so well built) and I figured I'd see if the apparent quality carries over to other products in their shop. I'll include a link below.
> 
> So these buds are actually quite well built. They have metal shells with a black finish and silver accents that feel and look damn good! As for sound, I am surprised at the depth of the bass which goes quite low. They don't have the midbass emphasis and punch that you hear many earbuds using to beef up their low end, but instead they give you a more balanced sub and mid bass presentation that is more linear and actually has some nice rumble to it when the bass guitat goes low for instance. The mids are decidedly recessed, but still of decent quality and they have nice detail to them. The treble is smooth and provides above average detail for earbuds in this price range with no noticeable sibilance so far, though maybe not quite as much sparkle as some might like.
> 
> If anyone out there is looking for an easy to drive pair of flathead buds that have a good fun signature for most modern music (haven't checked to see how they perform with much else yet), very nice bass, high build quality, and are ready to be matched with your favorite mmcx cable all for $15 (less with points and coupons) you shouldn't overlook this offering from Openheart in your search. I'm quite pleased with these and with Openheart's quality budget stuff in general.


I had a 2.5mm balanced cable from Openheart and really liked the quality! Recommended!


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 16, 2022)

samandhi said:


> LOL Apparently you do at that. I all but stopped looking once acquiring this DAP. It does it all, and I really have no need to have a desktop setup because this DAP can be that too (or a DAC, reverse BT DAC, etc...). The only thing that I can't do is change the overall signature that the DAC offers as a "house" sound. Thankfully the iBasso has a really nice neutral/warm sound (unlike its little brother the DX240 that has a neutral/bright sig), which I like a lot.
> 
> I also use the iBasso DX160, which is very similar in overall sound signature to the DX300 but with only dual DACs, and slower SOC, etc... (you know the compromises they make for mid-tier stuff). I also have some older OG FiiO DAPs that aren't quite retired as of yet.
> 
> ...


I read it over and found a lot of valuable info, but I'm not going to jump into anything too crazy with the DIY stuff yet because I am doing a reatoration and build on a vintage Gretsch drum set for a friend's 50th birthday and I only have a month to finish up what I have left. I want it to be top notch so I will be putting my DIY hours into that kit for now.

Today while listening, I did quickly solder up a pair of buds in an MX500 shell and played around with a couple premade tuning filters/discs that I bought. The whole thing was just for fun, but tought me my first lesson: Don't start building buds until you have hours to lose because it gets fun and interesting fast lol!

I actually like how my first little venture turned out so far. They're nothing special, but they're better than I thought I could do with 8 hours build time and no earbud experience. I have them opened back up so I can try one more thing to give me a little more low mid presence to give male vocals some grit, but i'll do that tomorrow and that's the last earbud DIY build until I get those drums finished aside from maybe some easy/quick mods. I have my eye on a recable or detachable cable mod for my HE 150Pros. I really like them, but that cable tangles like a bitch!


----------



## Charlyro222 (Aug 16, 2022)

Time for some good Smooth Jazz delights. (Ve Zen Omega Edition)


----------



## yaps66

JAnonymous5150 said:


> And now the conclusion of the Tubes & FF3 Saga. Will they live happily ever after or has their future together been doomed from the start? Let's find out! Now back to our feature presentation...
> 
> For the last phase of my testing, it seemed to me that it would make sense to try dac pairings that seemed like they might have the potential to harness the tube warmth and musicality that people seem to love so much, but keep the mids clean and detailed and the bass articulate and well controlled for the FF3s at the end of the audio chain.
> 
> ...


Very entertaining and very comprehensive! Thanks for sharing!


----------



## yaps66

samandhi said:


> Yeah, that would be like calling an astronaut while in space to ask where they left their keys or something... LOL I totally get that.
> 
> I am using the iBasso DX300 (quad Cirrus DACs) with the amp cards of: Amp11MKII (7.2Vrms, 1.2W @32 ohms & 2A), Amp13 Nutube 6P1 module (200mW low voltage output, & 600mW high voltage output), and Amp12 (8Vrms, 2W @32 ohms & 2.4A). They discontinued it for the lack of parts (the DAC chips) for the DX320 (dual Rohm DACs). Otherwise, it is the same device.
> 
> ...


I hear really good things about the DX300! I have the Cayin N8ii and I absolutely love it!


----------



## weexisttocease

Inpatiently waiting for the PXVV to arrive. Apparently there were delays with the UPS service.


----------



## samandhi

yaps66 said:


> I hear really good things about the DX300! I have the Cayin N8ii and I absolutely love it!


And I hear really good things about the N8ii also.


----------



## yaps66

samandhi said:


> And I hear really good things about the N8ii also.


I still burning mine in and getting to grips with the various modes (SS and Tube; Class A and AB and P and P+) and its various combinations.  Have been burning the N8ii in with the Zii plugged in.  Have tosay, the N8ii is a great source for the Zii.  Or maybe the Zii just sounds great!


----------



## samandhi

yaps66 said:


> I still burning mine in and getting to grips with the various modes (SS and Tube; Class A and AB and P and P+) and its various combinations.  Have been burning the N8ii in with the Zii plugged in.  Have tosay, the N8ii is a great source for the Zii.  Or maybe the Zii just sounds great!


Probably a bit of both??? Either way when you get to flagship levels such as the N8ii, DX300/DX320, M8, etc... it really all boils down to the bells and whistles and different "house" coloration IMHO. They are all going to be very technically capable.


----------



## FranQL

yaps66 said:


> I still burning mine in and getting to grips with the various modes (SS and Tube; Class A and AB and P and P+) and its various combinations.  Have been burning the N8ii in with the Zii plugged in.  Have tosay, the N8ii is a great source for the Zii.  Or maybe the Zii just sounds great!


if that fell to the ground... I don't know what I would do


----------



## samandhi

FranQL said:


> if that fell to the ground... I don't know what I would do


LOL For sure!


----------



## weexisttocease

It's here!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

weexisttocease said:


> It's here!


Woah! You're not messin' around anymore, eh? You have to let the rest of us know what it sounds like from the top. Congratulations, I hope they sound every bit as good as they look and that you enjoy them for many sessions to come!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 16, 2022)

weexisttocease said:


> It's here!


Enjoy! Look forward to seeing more pics and reading your assessment. Your pair look bluer than the pair I listened to earlier in the year which were more purple looking.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

WoodyLuvr said:


> Enjoy! Look forward to seeing more pics and reading your assessment. Your pair look bluer than the pair I listened to earlier in the year which were more purple looking.


Yeah, the pair a friend of a friend got were definitely more purple too. I think I like the more blue look quite a bit, though.

I won't get to give these a listen until I head to San Francisco in a couple weeks. What was your impression from listening to them?


----------



## yaps66

FranQL said:


> if that fell to the ground... I don't know what I would do


Gasp for breath!


----------



## weexisttocease

WoodyLuvr said:


> Enjoy! Look forward to seeing more pics and reading your assessment. Your pair look bluer than the pair I listened to earlier in the year which were more purple looking.


Thanks. I think the purple is the standard version with 32 Ohm. The blue is the high impedance version with 122 Ohms. It also comes with a dongle which can drive this properly.


----------



## weexisttocease

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Woah! You're not messin' around anymore, eh? You have to let the rest of us know what it sounds like from the top. Congratulations, I hope they sound every bit as good as they look and that you enjoy them for many sessions to come!


Thanks 👍.

This is my first pair of earbuds since the 90s.😂 The quality is top notch. Even the cables are of high quality. It has lots of accessories including a leather pouch. Also has a USB pen drive but i have no idea what is for.


----------



## samandhi

weexisttocease said:


> Thanks 👍.
> 
> This is my first pair of earbuds since the 90s.😂 The quality is top notch. Even the cables are of high quality. It has lots of accessories including a leather pouch. Also has a USB pen drive but i have no idea what is for.


Marketing??? hehe


----------



## WoodyLuvr

weexisttocease said:


> Thanks. I think the purple is the standard version with 32 Ohm. The blue is the high impedance version with 122 Ohms. It also comes with a dongle which can drive this properly.


Perhaps (that does make sense) but I am certain that the purplish colored PXVV I heard was the higher impedance (122Ω) version as it too came with the *Clot Audio CPWOO! - Dedicated Piezoelectric Decoding Amp (AKM AK4462)*. Perhaps there is simply some minor variations in color which is often associated with wood-resin finishes.


----------



## Ronion

For anyone interested, I think I’ve settle on this EQ for the FiiO FF3 with bass foams on.  This enables it to do any music justice.  It’s close to perfect if not exactly so.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

weexisttocease said:


> Thanks 👍.
> 
> This is my first pair of earbuds since the 90s.😂 The quality is top notch. Even the cables are of high quality. It has lots of accessories including a leather pouch. Also has a USB pen drive but i have no idea what is for.


The USB device is a DAC combo dongle, IIRC that's included to drive the buds to their best sound and with a bit more juice! I take it you got the 120ohm (i think its around that anyways) version then? I don't believe they include the DAC with the 32ohm version, but I may be wrong. The higher impredance makes driving them directly off of a mobile phone jack less than ideal.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Yeah, the pair a friend of a friend got were definitely more purple too. I think I like the more blue look quite a bit, though.
> 
> I won't get to give these a listen until I head to San Francisco in a couple weeks. What was your impression from listening to them?


The entire Pislo line-up is very much geared towards female voices especially Asian female vocals (K-Pop/J-Pop)... aka Female Poison. They are extremely detailed but damn the upper mids and lower highs are right there in your face! Beware to those sensitive to bright and sibilant treble, harsh upper mids/lower highs, and/or in your face midrange... they bite!

The *PISLO PXVV* by ArtVano comes in two (2) piezoelectric versions: standard or high-impedance and is a second generation version of their *piezoelectric* ceramic solid wood & resin cavity flathead earbud first introduced back three plus years ago the *2018 PISLO PX HIFI* (31Ω @ 115dB; International "Piezoelectric" Version; ~USD $1,659!) which did come in three (3) other lower tiered "_non-piezoelectric_" versions: P7, PX, and Yan.​​2018 - PISLO P7 Flathead; 31Ω @ 108dB (Domestic-China version)​2018 - PISLO PX; 31Ω @ 115dB (Int'l Standard version)​2018 - PISLO PX HIFI; 31Ω @ 115dB (Int'l Piezoelectric version)​2020 - PISLO 焱 Yan Black Flame Edition; 31Ω @ 106dB​2021 - PISLO PXVV; 32Ω/122Ω (Gen 2 Piezoelectric)​


Spoiler: Pislo Line-Up Sound Chart


----------



## JAnonymous5150

WoodyLuvr said:


> The entire Pislo line-up is very much geared towards female voices especially Asian female vocals (K-Pop/J-Pop)... aka Female Poison. They are extremely detailed but damn the upper mids and lower highs are right there in your face! Beware to those sensitive to bright and sibilant treble, harsh upper mids/lower highs, and/or in your face midrange... they bite!
> 
> The *PISLO PXVV* by ArtVano comes in two (2) piezoelectric versions: standard or high-impedance and is a second generation version of their *piezoelectric* ceramic solid wood & resin cavity flathead earbud first introduced back three plus years ago the *2018 PISLO PX HIFI* (31Ω @ 115dB; International "Piezoelectric" Version; ~USD $1,659!) which did come in three (3) other lower tiered "_non-piezoelectric_" versions: P7, PX, and Yan.​​2018 - PISLO P7 Flathead; 31Ω @ 108dB (Domestic-China version)​2018 - PISLO PX; 31Ω @ 115dB (Int'l Standard version)​2018 - PISLO PX HIFI; 31Ω @ 115dB (Int'l Piezoelectric version)​2020 - PISLO 焱 Yan Black Flame Edition; 31Ω @ 106dB​2021 - PISLO PXVV; 32Ω/122Ω (Gen 2 Piezoelectric)​
> 
> ...


Good to know! I'm looking forward to having a listen.


----------



## weexisttocease

Pislo PXVV first impressions:

- fantastic build quality and set of accessories;
- fit seems to be ok but I'm mostly used to IEMs, so it will take time to get a proper fit and seal;
- it needs power as expected but the included USB dongle has no trouble driving the PXVV;
- I would describe the sound as "warm" but very natural and transparent at the same time but this could change since it needs burn in due to the nature of piezoelectric drivers;
- male vocals are great, I have the feeling female vocals could be intoxicating. Probably I need to test some tracks from Susanne Sundfør;
- the bass on this thing rumbles and it´s punchy with fast attack and short decay. This doesn´t sacrifice the mids at all, actually it still has lots of details;
-the treble is not harsh and has a good extension with some sparkle but as I've said before the PXVV needs a period of burn in;
- soundstage is wide, it is like having a pair of speakers with a three-dimensional sound field. Again, I'm not used to this kind of soundstage with my IEMs.

I'm impressed. Never thought a pair of earbuds could sound so good. They are expensive for earbuds but the unboxing experience was great and so far I'm really enjoying how great the PXVV sounds.


----------



## weexisttocease

WoodyLuvr said:


> Perhaps (that does make sense) but I am certain that the purplish colored PXVV I heard was the higher impedance (122Ω) version as it too came with the *Clot Audio CPWOO! - Dedicated Piezoelectric Decoding Amp (AKM AK4462)*. Perhaps there is simply some minor variations in color which is often associated with wood-resin finishes.


I think you're right. I have seen the CPWOO in purple too. Anyway I'm happy my unit is blue.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> For anyone interested, I think I’ve settle on this EQ for the FiiO FF3 with bass foams on.  This enables it to do any music justice.  It’s close to perfect if not exactly so.


Stored for (potential) use when mine arrive. Although, I might substitube 4K rather than 8K. It will put it closer to that area that hurts my ears, but a small amount should add some air. I suppose, though that I might be way off base, not having heard these at all yet. 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> The USB device is a DAC combo dongle, IIRC that's included to drive the buds to their best sound and with a bit more juice! I take it you got the 120ohm (i think its around that anyways) version then? I don't believe they include the DAC with the 32ohm version, but I may be wrong. The higher impredance makes driving them directly off of a mobile phone jack less than ideal.


I was going to ask what that was in the picture. That is cool!


----------



## weexisttocease

I just realized UAPP recognizes the dongle as SABRE Hifi DAC? It is supposed to be AKM.


----------



## samandhi

weexisttocease said:


> I just realized UAPP recognizes the dongle as SABRE Hifi DAC? It is supposed to be AKM.


LOL you should screenshot that and send it to the manufacturer. I can see a meme in my head over this.


----------



## weexisttocease

samandhi said:


> LOL you should screenshot that and send it to the manufacturer. I can see a meme in my head over this.


----------



## samandhi

weexisttocease said:


>


What with shortages the way they have been of late, maybe the manufacturer ran out of AKM and threw an ESS in it??? Either way... LOL


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> What with shortages the way they have been of late, maybe the manufacturer ran out of AKM and threw an ESS in it??? Either way... LOL


Still, you would hope they would change their marketing literature and such. All the references I can find on reviews and stuff refer to it as being AKM chipped.

I personally use mostly ESS Sabre chipped DACs and combos anyways, but I do own some AKM stuff and they tend to have bit of smooth warmth to them that can make them a good match for cold transducer mediums. If I was putting out super high end buds with a matched DAC, I would want to note the chip change and assure my customers that similar care had been taken to match the ESS chip to produce a sonic result that meets the company's standard. Either way though, if the DAC section is designed and implemented well, as I would imagine it is at this level, an ESS chip should perform admirably.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Still, you would hope they would change their marketing literature and such. All the references I can find on reviews and stuff refer to it as being AKM chipped.
> 
> I personally use mostly ESS Sabre chipped DACs and combos anyways, but I do own some AKM stuff and they tend to have bit of smooth warmth to them that can make them a good match for cold transducer mediums. If I was putting out super high end buds with a matched DAC, I would want to note the chip change and assure my customers that similar care had been taken to match the ESS chip to produce a sonic result that meets the company's standard. Either way though, if the DAC section is designed and implemented well, as I would imagine it is at this level, an ESS chip should perform admirably.


Agree with all of it...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

For anyone who cares here's an update on my earbud journey:

The Rose Maria IIs have been a pleasant listen so far providing perhaps the single best classical music listening experience of any flathead I have tried so far. When I saw the driver specs on these, I was expecting a much more powerful presentation rather than the very airy, detailed, and even delicate at times presentation that the Maria IIs are, IMO, best at. The whole sound is enveloping, but quite ethereal, leaving the listener suspended in a 3D soundstage so subtle and delicate that it seems it might crash to the ground in a million broken shards should the artist hit a single wrong note. Oddly enough, I don't like listening to mixed playlists with these buds AT ALL. They create such a beautiful synergy with some songs that if the next song in a mix doesn't fit them it's actually jarring for me. I don't recall ever having had this aversion with any transducer I have ever used before. Obviously, I have other specialist types that are better at some things than others, but none of them make me dread the wrong song coming up if I press the shuffle button lol! And while the Maria IIs are far from a one trick pony, they certainly have certain styles/genres/sounds that they do best and, for me at least, they're equally far from being an all-arounder or jack of all trades. If I end up keeping the Maria IIs it would be to use them as a specialist listen rather than as a pair I can use whenever I feel like it as I go through any given day or listening session. They can be a bit picky regarding sources as well, tending to prefer sources with a bit of warmth and musicality to bring to the table. Just my two cents.

I have to say, that while catching up on work around the house and on the drum set I've been restoring, I have been having fun with the TRN EMAs. They are quite a fun little earbud. They have a nice energy to them and, surprisingly for a cheap earbud, they allow a lot of source characteristics to shine through. For instance, this morning I was listening to them through my new Cayin RU6 which has this lush warm mid range and the EMAs picked up a lot of that warmth and mid range presence while yesterday when I had them plugged into a dongle with a single ESS9018 chip in it, they took on the darker, more exacting feel that has made that dongle a personal favorite in my collection.

I also got a surprise about an hour ago when the mailman dropped off a package. I wasn't expecting anything so I didn't know what it could be. Curious, I immediately cut open the package and found a box containing a pair of Astrotec Lyra Collections in it. This pair had somehow been separated from my order from Penon Audio and neither they, nor I knew where it was. We were in the process of sorting out what was to be done about it when they made a surprise appearance at my door. They had been repackaged and relabelled by customs with no explanation as to why, but they hadn't been opened or anything so I'm cool with it and very happy that they showed up!


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Today while listening, I did quickly solder up a pair of buds in an MX500 shell and played around with a couple premade tuning filters/discs that I bought. The whole thing was just for fun, but tought me my first lesson: Don't start building buds until you have hours to lose because it gets fun and interesting fast lol!
> 
> I actually like how my first little venture turned out so far. They're nothing special, but they're better than I thought I could do with 8 hours build time and no earbud experience



How many tuning configurations did you try to take 8 hours


----------



## syazwaned

Hi guys,

Is there any tube amp / solid state that is best for earbuds? I noticed @WoodyLuvr Tube Amp, but I don't think that I can afford it. My current budget is less than 200 usd, and my current option are"

1. Used stock tube Schiit Lyr2.
2. Xduoo Mt602

Is there any other good amp out there suitable for earbuds.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> For anyone who cares here's an update on my earbud journey:
> 
> The Rose Maria IIs have been a pleasant listen so far providing perhaps the single best classical music listening experience of any flathead I have tried so far. When I saw the driver specs on these, I was expecting a much more powerful presentation rather than the very airy, detailed, and even delicate at times presentation that the Maria IIs are, IMO, best at. The whole sound is enveloping, but quite ethereal, leaving the listener suspended in a 3D soundstage so subtle and delicate that it seems it might crash to the ground in a million broken shards should the artist hit a single wrong note. Oddly enough, I don't like listening to mixed playlists with these buds AT ALL. They create such a beautiful synergy with some songs that if the next song in a mix doesn't fit them it's actually jarring for me. I don't recall ever having had this aversion with any transducer I have ever used before. Obviously, I have other specialist types that are better at some things than others, but none of them make me dread the wrong song coming up if I press the shuffle button lol! And while the Maria IIs are far from a one trick pony, they certainly have certain styles/genres/sounds that they do best and, for me at least, they're equally far from being an all-arounder or jack of all trades. If I end up keeping the Maria IIs it would be to use them as a specialist listen rather than as a pair I can use whenever I feel like it as I go through any given day or listening session. They can be a bit picky regarding sources as well, tending to prefer sources with a bit of warmth and musicality to bring to the table. Just my two cents.
> 
> ...


I think much the same as you do regarding the Maria IIs. And that was really what I meant by saying that you might be disappointed by the bass. I was expecting something huge and powerful (especially in the bass region), rather than airy and delicate (as you so eloquently put it). To me it was almost shocking (but not necessarily in a bad way). To me it is a lot like having a huge 0 turn mower to mow a lawn that is 1/8th of an acre. It seems as though it might be overkill by looking at it but it is equipped to do the job nicely when asked to.


----------



## weexisttocease

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Still, you would hope they would change their marketing literature and such. All the references I can find on reviews and stuff refer to it as being AKM chipped.
> 
> I personally use mostly ESS Sabre chipped DACs and combos anyways, but I do own some AKM stuff and they tend to have bit of smooth warmth to them that can make them a good match for cold transducer mediums. If I was putting out super high end buds with a matched DAC, I would want to note the chip change and assure my customers that similar care had been taken to match the ESS chip to produce a sonic result that meets the company's standard. Either way though, if the DAC section is designed and implemented well, as I would imagine it is at this level, an ESS chip should perform admirably.


I'm a bit disappointed since it should be an AKM DAC. It could at least be mentioned they had to change to ESS due to some specific reason. Anyway, the dongle sounds great so far and I'm pretty sure it was designed to match the PXVV.

I'm other news, the included USB pen drive is the digital warranty card dated from 29-07-2022.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> How many tuning configurations did you try to take 8 hours


Quite a few, but I also wired it up with a basic twisted cable at first and then decided I would prefer to do a nice braided cable so I played around with different braids and colors for quite a while before I finally settled on one and changed out the original cable. I also tried more tuning stuff with the ports on the shells (covering, uncovering, and eventually widening one). And of course that whole time I would stop and listen and try different sources and foams and different playlists and genres. I definitely wasn't building for 8 hours or anything. I just meant that for 8 hours I was building, listening, experimenting...the whole bit. You know what I mean?

As I thought, building earbuds is a hobby that I could see easily becoming addicting. On any given day you can make yourself a pair and spend the whole day tweaking them and playing with the tuning, cable and build til your heart's content. I get the feeling that I am gonna end up with a ton my own DIY earbuds lol!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> I think much the same as you do regarding the Maria IIs. And that was really what I meant by saying that you might be disappointed by the bass. I was expecting something huge and powerful (especially in the bass region), rather than airy and delicate (as you so eloquently put it). To me it was almost shocking (but not necessarily in a bad way). To me it is a lot like having a huge 0 turn mower to mow a lawn that is 1/8th of an acre. It seems as though it might be overkill by looking at it but it is equipped to do the job nicely when asked to.


I totally understand what you mean. I didn't get that that's what you were saying in your original post, but i get it now. It certainly is a surprising juxtaposition to see the numbers on the drivers on the Maria IIs and then to hear them in action. Your lawnmower analogy is actually quite a good parallel lol!


----------



## ttorbic

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Quite a few, but I also wired it up with a basic twisted cable at first and then decided I would prefer to do a nice braided cable so I played around with different braids and colors for quite a while before I finally settled on one and changed out the original cable. I also tried more tuning stuff with the ports on the shells (covering, uncovering, and eventually widening one). And of course that whole time I would stop and listen and try different sources and foams and different playlists and genres. I definitely wasn't building for 8 hours or anything. I just meant that for 8 hours I was building, listening, experimenting...the whole bit. You know what I mean?
> 
> As I thought, building earbuds is a hobby that I could see easily becoming addicting. On any given day you can make yourself a pair and spend the whole day tweaking them and playing with the tuning, cable and build til your heart's content. I get the feeling that I am gonna end up with a ton my own DIY earbuds lol!


And maybe one day we can call dibs on some of your DIY earbuds


----------



## JAnonymous5150

syazwaned said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Is there any tube amp / solid state that is best for earbuds? I noticed @WoodyLuvr Tube Amp, but I don't think that I can afford it. My current budget is less than 200 usd, and my current option are"
> 
> ...


Hold on, so did you only want tube amp recommendations or did you want both tube and solid state recommendations?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

ttorbic said:


> And maybe one day we can call dibs on some of your DIY earbuds


I doubt I'll ever be selling them, but maybe just maybe I'll make a few pairs to give out once I think I've gotten good at it. If that day ever comes and that's a big if lol!

Seriously though, I have no plans to go in to selling earbuds, but I'd definitely like to hand out some pairs eventually just to see what others think of my work. I think it would be interesting, but I'm a long way off from that.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Quite a few, but I also wired it up with a basic twisted cable at first and then decided I would prefer to do a nice braided cable so I played around with different braids and colors for quite a while before I finally settled on one and changed out the original cable. I also tried more tuning stuff with the ports on the shells (covering, uncovering, and eventually widening one). And of course that whole time I would stop and listen and try different sources and foams and different playlists and genres. I definitely wasn't building for 8 hours or anything. I just meant that for 8 hours I was building, listening, experimenting...the whole bit. You know what I mean?
> 
> As I thought, building earbuds is a hobby that I could see easily becoming addicting. On any given day you can make yourself a pair and spend the whole day tweaking them and playing with the tuning, cable and build til your heart's content. I get the feeling that I am gonna end up with a ton my own DIY earbuds lol!



That’s a lot of modifications. Exactly what I was planning to do. Good to know how much time I should budget


----------



## syazwaned

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hold on, so did you only want tube amp recommendations or did you want both tube and solid state recommendations?


Sorry, I not that good in English .


Any recommendation would be ok, either tube or solid state, as long as it is good for earbuds. I also can go higher for Kaei Tap1s, but not sure whether is it a good option or not.


----------



## samandhi

samandhi said:


> I think much the same as you do regarding the Maria IIs. And that was really what I meant by saying that you might be disappointed by the bass. I was expecting something huge and powerful (especially in the bass region), rather than airy and delicate (as you so eloquently put it). To me it was almost shocking (but not necessarily in a bad way). To me it is a lot like having a huge 0 turn mower to mow a lawn that is 1/8th of an acre. It seems as though it might be overkill by looking at it but it is equipped to do the job nicely when asked to.


Having heaped some amount of praise on the Maria II, I would also like to share my "not-so-good" thoughts on them. 

Man, that pina gain is just killer (to my ears). With that in mind, I find it really hard to listen to anything but classical (for instance). The problem with that is that I listen to classical very little (not "none" though), so they don't get very much use for my part. Now, that doesn't mean I will get rid of them. When I am in the mood for listening to an OST or something, I can slap these on (or the Chaconne or the HD700) and get lost for a time in it. 

It also sounds like you do something similar to my listening habits. Press "shuffle" on my 28K library and see what happens...  If I find one that I seem to be in the mood for at that time, then I will go into the specific genre, or artist to listen further. There are also those times I will fire up Amazon Music and seek new music to add to my ever growing collection.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> That’s a lot of modifications. Exactly what I was planning to do. Good to know how much time I should budget


It was pretty fun! Like I mentioned before, I have been modding headphones for a long time and I've been making cables for a couple years at this point so I have legit soldering skills and good problem solving skills to go along with experience which makes all that work quicker and easier to do than if I was going into it without ever having done any DIY work before. You shouldn't have any trouble with it either since you have modding experience too.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> It was pretty fun! Like I mentioned before, I have been modding headphones for a long time and I've been making cables for a couple years at this point so I have legit soldering skills and good problem solving skills to go along with experience which makes all that work quicker and easier to do than if I was going into it without ever having done any DIY work before. You shouldn't have any trouble with it either since you have modding experience too.



Jeez, you have done everything audio related   .

My “modding” was mostly taping and measuring, so it’s going to take a while with soldering and drilling earphones. I increase my time budget to 8 days now


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 16, 2022)

syazwaned said:


> Sorry, I not that good in English .
> 
> 
> Any recommendation would be ok, either tube or solid state, as long as it is good for earbuds. I also can go higher for Kaei Tap1s, but not sure whether is it a good option or not.


If we're talking about desktop amp recommendations, I have the MT-602 and I found it easy enough to use with the FF3s when I was testing out some tubes in my recent experiments, but with tubes you'll have to find earbuds that work well with the tubes or tubes that work well with your earbuds. But as far as power and ease of use goes, the MT-602 is the only tube amp I own and it's a good solid option.

For solid state amps, the Schiit Magni 3+ or Schiit Magni Heresy and the JDSLabs Atom+ come to mind as similarly priced desktop amps that you could look at.

Are you just looking for an amp by itself or are you looking for a DAC/Amp combo? And do you only want desktop options or are you looking at portable solutions as well?

Because I'm in the US, I'm not super familiar with what's available to you and what prices they are on your market. If you have some options that you've seen around that intrigue you feel free to list them and I/we can tell you how suitable or not they might be. Also, hopefully some of the folks on here from your side of the planet (lol!) that are a little more in touch with pricing and availability over there can be more helpful than I have been.

Edit: By the way, your English is quite good actually!


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> If we're talking about desktop amp recommendations, I have the MT-602 and I found it easy enough to use with the FF3s when I was testing out some tubes in my recent experiments, but with tubes you'll have to find earbuds that work well with the tubes or tubes that work well with your earbuds. But as far as power and ease of use goes, the MT-602 is the only tube amp I own and it's a good solid option.
> 
> For solid state amps, the Schiit Magni 3+ or Schiit Magni Heresy and the JDSLabs Atom+ come to mind as similarly priced desktop amps that you could look at.
> 
> ...


Also something to keep in mind if you buy an affordable tube amp, but the stock tube may not be suitable for earbuds; tube rolling can get very expensive depending on how badly you want to reach that last 1% (so to speak). Tubes can be very cheap, but some of the more rare (vintage) types that sound the best can cost a pretty penny.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Jeez, you have done everything audio related   .
> 
> My “modding” was mostly taping and measuring, so it’s going to take a while with soldering and drilling earphones. I increase my time budget to 8 days now


LOL not even close! But I'm a curious person by nature and growing up I worked as an electrical apprenctice and a welder/metal frabicator's helper for my uncles to make money so I learned to like tinkering and fixing things. Also, the fact that my father wasn't around left my brother and I to do most of the household maintenance at my mom's house growing up so I learned a lot of DIY skills and got plenty of expeience with using tools and fixing problems from a pretty young age.

Modding and DIYing comes pretty naturally to me in audio stuff, drums, household maintenance, my off-roading hobby, gunsmithing, etc. Basically, I have incorporated hands on DIY skills into almost everything I do. It makes it more fun and easier to stay interested and involved. Does that make sense?


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> LOL not even close! But I'm a curious person by nature and growing up I worked as an electrical apprenctice and a welder/metal frabicator's helper for my uncles to make money so I learned to like tinkering and fixing things. Also, the fact that my father wasn't around left my brother and I to do most of the household maintenance at my mom's house growing up so I learned a lot of DIY skills and got plenty of expeience with using tools and fixing problems from a pretty young age.
> 
> Modding and DIYing comes pretty naturally to me in audio stuff, drums, household maintenance, my off-roading hobby, gunsmithing, etc. Basically, I have incorporated hands on DIY skills into almost everything I do. It makes it more fun and easier to stay interested and involved. Does that make sense?



My father would be happy to have a tinkering son. He tried to get me into electrical and mechanical stuffs, but the lazy me just played with computers   Little did he knows decades later, I start learning electrical stuffs by myself to make those earphones. My tools and components are still in a warehouse somewhere in China though. I'm finding a way to review my old stack of IEMs quickly so that I can start opening them up and retuning them when waiting. You know, those hyped train IEMs that no one care about nowadays. I paid for them so should at least review them before breaking them, though I doubt anyone reading reviews about these old hype trains anymore.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> My father would be happy to have a tinkering son. He tried to get me into electrical and mechanical stuffs, but the lazy me just played with computers   Little did he knows decades later, I start learning electrical stuffs by myself to make those earphones. My tools and components are still in a warehouse somewhere in China though. I'm finding a way to review my old stack of IEMs quickly so that I can start opening them up and retuning them when waiting. You know, those hyped train IEMs that no one care about nowadays. I paid for them so should at least review them before breaking them, though I doubt anyone reading reviews about these old hype trains anymore.


Not to get too off topic, but which "hype train IEMs" are you referring to? There have been so many in the last few years, let alone the last few decades that I've been using headphones, IEMs, and other audio products.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Not to get too off topic, but which "hype train IEMs" are you referring to? There have been so many in the last few years, let alone the last few decades that I've been using headphones, IEMs, and other audio products.



Moondrop Chu, CCA CRA are something I can recall. Long time ago there was FH3. Also, I need to write about Aria and Blessing 2.

And then there are some ancient stuffs that no one would read about anymore like Final Audio A4000.


----------



## Stevehamny

Re: the desktop amp for earbuds question, I'm also in the market and I know that the iFi Zen DAC V2 is very highly regarded as an all-in-one desktop unit. For under $200 it sounds like a no-brainer, but I'd be very interested to hear opinions from any of the fine fellow listeners here.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Moondrop Chu, CCA CRA are something I can recall. Long time ago there was FH3. Also, I need to write about Aria and Blessing 2.
> 
> And then there are some ancient stuffs that no one would read about anymore like Final Audio A4000.


I actually quite enjoyed the CRA and the CRA+... 

Do you remember the Xiaomi Piston II? They garnered quite the hype on here back then. I still have both my sets (and actually listen to them now and again). They were one of the first beryllium drivers on the market.


----------



## mt877

Got a kick out of this...







Original webpage: The Ultimate Earbud Round-Up Shoot-Out Battle Royale With Cheese (regardless of price) - Christian Climaco


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Stevehamny said:


> Re: the desktop amp for earbuds question, I'm also in the market and I know that the iFi Zen DAC V2 is very highly regarded as an all-in-one desktop unit. For under $200 it sounds like a no-brainer, but I'd be very interested to hear opinions from any of the fine fellow listeners here.


I never used it for earbuds, but I had the V1 years ago that I used primarily for IEMs and the occasional over ear and it was a nice combo. Of course, I hear the V2 is even better so I would imagine it would be a good option. 

The only question I would have about it is whether or not it's rated for higher impedance options. I don't remember what the V1 was rated for, but with earbuds remember that it's not uncommon to run in to buds with impedance ratings from 300-600. It may not even be an issue if the V2 is rated for higher impedance level which it may very well be. And there are tons of great earbuds that fall into the easy to moderate to drive categories that I know the Zen DAC V2 can handle so if you wanted to you could easily avoid the really high impedance options.

I personally will likely not buy many of the highest impedance buds because I enjoy being able to use many of my favorite buds away from the desktop, but I already have two 600ohm monsters on order because I have the power if I want to and because my curious behind couldn't go without listening to them lol!

Just some things to think about, but all in all I would expect the V2 would be a great combo for the vast majority of buds.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Also something to keep in mind if you buy an affordable tube amp, but the stock tube may not be suitable for earbuds; tube rolling can get very expensive depending on how badly you want to reach that last 1% (so to speak). Tubes can be very cheap, but some of the more rare (vintage) types that sound the best can cost a pretty penny.


This is a very good point. I know guys that spend silly amounts of money on tubes seeking the best sound or a particular sound. Not only do I tend to prefer the sound of solid state amplifiers, but I would hate to imagine how diving into tube rolling would effect my budget for new earbuds/headphones. It's definitely something anyone looking at deciding between solid state and tubes for an amp should factor into their decision.


----------



## syazwaned

JAnonymous5150 said:


> If we're talking about desktop amp recommendations, I have the MT-602 and I found it easy enough to use with the FF3s when I was testing out some tubes in my recent experiments, but with tubes you'll have to find earbuds that work well with the tubes or tubes that work well with your earbuds. But as far as power and ease of use goes, the MT-602 is the only tube amp I own and it's a good solid option.
> 
> For solid state amps, the Schiit Magni 3+ or Schiit Magni Heresy and the JDSLabs Atom+ come to mind as similarly priced desktop amps that you could look at.
> 
> ...




Thanks, I have a 50 usd offer to but MT 602, going to close my eye and buy it. Hope I dont fall into tube rolling rabbit hole haha




o0genesis0o said:


> Moondrop Chu, CCA CRA are something I can recall. Long time ago there was FH3. Also, I need to write about Aria and Blessing 2.
> 
> And then there are some ancient stuffs that no one would read about anymore like Final Audio A4000.



I recently acquire E3K, and I think it has one of the best bass response in earbuds. I have er2se, I wonder whether it is worth to swap it with A4000..



Stevehamny said:


> Re: the desktop amp for earbuds question, I'm also in the market and I know that the iFi Zen DAC V2 is very highly regarded as an all-in-one desktop unit. For under $200 it sounds like a no-brainer, but I'd be very interested to hear opinions from any of the fine fellow listeners here.



I have listened to Ifi Zen Dac. It is too warm for my taste. In my opinion Apogee Groove is better at being warm dac/amp than Ifi Zen Dac. But, it is just my opinion.


----------



## baskingshark

syazwaned said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Is there any tube amp / solid state that is best for earbuds? I noticed @WoodyLuvr Tube Amp, but I don't think that I can afford it. My current budget is less than 200 usd, and my current option are"
> 
> ...



@RikudouGoku and I use the Schiit Asgard 3 (solid state amp). What I like about it is it has gain switches so you can switch on the fly, and deal with low impedance/high sensitivity IEMs all the way to full sized power hungry gear.

It has low output impedance (won't mess around with FR of low impedance fussy stuff like the campfire andromeda), and has a warm neutral musical sound signature. Quite decent technicalities, dark background.

I think it frequently sells around $200ish USD, even cheaper if second hand.


----------



## yaps66

JAnonymous5150 said:


> If we're talking about desktop amp recommendations, I have the MT-602 and I found it easy enough to use with the FF3s when I was testing out some tubes in my recent experiments, but with tubes you'll have to find earbuds that work well with the tubes or tubes that work well with your earbuds. But as far as power and ease of use goes, the MT-602 is the only tube amp I own and it's a good solid option.
> 
> For solid state amps, the Schiit Magni 3+ or Schiit Magni Heresy and the JDSLabs Atom+ come to mind as similarly priced desktop amps that you could look at.
> 
> ...





 @JAnonymous5150


----------



## yaps66

samandhi said:


> I actually quite enjoyed the CRA and the CRA+...
> 
> Do you remember the Xiaomi Piston II? They garnered quite the hype on here back then. I still have both my sets (and actually listen to them now and again). They were one of the first beryllium drivers on the market.


+1 on the CRA and thanks to you @samandhi also for the CRA+

Guilty pleasures!


----------



## yaps66

JAnonymous5150 said:


> This is a very good point. I know guys that spend silly amounts of money on tubes seeking the best sound or a particular sound. Not only do I tend to prefer the sound of solid state amplifiers, but I would hate to imagine how diving into tube rolling would effect my budget for new earbuds/headphones. It's definitely something anyone looking at deciding between solid state and tubes for an amp should factor into their decision.


Good point! Add to that it is difficult for me to even get audio products here in Vietnam, plus the plethora of fakes NOS out there!  It is a rabbit hole in and of itself!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

syazwaned said:


> Thanks, I have a 50 usd offer to but MT 602, going to close my eye and buy it. Hope I dont fall into tube rolling rabbit hole haha



For $50 USD you can't go wrong. When I purchased mine I think ~3 years ago I paid $139 or $149 I think and I feel like it was worth that. This was back when the MT-602 was going through a bit of a vogue in some tube circles as a Schiit killer. Basically very affordable, nice power output, and a good tube section to boot was the read on the MT-602. 

I checked google and it looks like shops are pushing them for $100 new right now and even though I don't use mine much, I would have no problem recommending it to someone who wanted to get into tubes for reasonable money. My tube expert friend that gave me the GE tubes I threw into my MT-602 the other night owns one and uses it fairly often because he just likes the way its power section sounds for particular headphones. He's the one who recommended it to me to begin with.

That turned into a bit of an involved story so sorry for that. The TL;DR is for $50 the MT-602 is a good call.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

yaps66 said:


> @JAnonymous5150


LOL because I decided to use my substantial down time to give amp recommendations?

You're too kind. Thanks!


----------



## o0genesis0o

Re: sources and tube: you guys have intricate (and expensive) taste   I just want one of those DAP bricks and I would be done. A while ago I watched an IEM review by a drummer. There was a B-roll clip of him chilling on the sofa with a pair of IEM and a DAP. Looks like an enjoyable experience.



syazwaned said:


> I recently acquire E3K, and I think it has one of the best bass response in earbuds. I have er2se, I wonder whether it is worth to swap it with A4000..



Wait until you hear its elder (younger?) brother E5000  E3k is quite moddable. Opening up its back vents can increase the soundstage and resolution a bit, but the bass can be a bit too much. I’m looking for a way to open its front vents to release a bit of bass. Re: A4000, it’s a technical IEM with love-it-or-hate-it tuning. Not sure I would recommend it without modding or EQ.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Re: sources and tube: you guys have intricate (and expensive) taste   I just want one of those DAP bricks and I would be done. A while ago I watched an IEM review by a drummer. There was a B-roll clip of him chilling on the sofa with a pair of IEM and a DAP. Looks like an enjoyable experience.
> 
> 
> 
> Wait until you hear its elder (younger?) brother E5000  E3k is quite moddable. Opening up its back vents can increase the soundstage and resolution a bit, but the bass can be a bit too much. I’m looking for a way to open its front vents to release a bit of bass. Re: A4000, it’s a technical IEM with love-it-or-hate-it tuning. Not sure I would recommend it without modding or EQ.



First thing's first, I love listening through a good DAP, no doubt about it. I do most of my casual listening over my DAP or my phone with a portable DAC or dongle of some description because that way I can pretty much constantly be listening to music. And I love how far DAPs and other portables have come with being able to have decent battery life and the ability to power some pretty power hungry transducers. If all of my preferred headphones, IEMs, and earbuds/flatheads could be powered to the best of their abilities off of portable sources I would have no problem finding one or two that I liked and rolling with that as my endgame.

For me personally, that's just not the case. Even if I bought some of the most powerful and expensive portable sources out there I would have to max out their power just to *maybe* be able to run my Stealths sufficiently. I demoed the A&K SP2000 a while back when I first started my flagship headphone hunt because I knew I would be needing power, but a DAP that ****in' big and heavy makes carrying it a chore and I'm not willing to do it. So my DAP and portable listening is limited by what I'm willing to call portable and thats fine.

One of the reasons I got into earbuds was because I could get a lot of the soundstage and presence available in over ears in a *truly* compact and portable package. The more I have been listening to them, the more I have been content to split my portable listening time to earbuds and my stationary time to my over ears. 

I have never been able to keep it simple when it comes to audio. I have always wanted options, flexibility, and variety. In the end, it's all about finding what satisfies your musical tastes and rolling with it ride or die style. After all, you're the only one who has to listen to your setup.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Re: sources and tube: you guys have intricate (and expensive) taste   I just want one of those DAP bricks and I would be done. A while ago I watched an IEM review by a drummer. There was a B-roll clip of him chilling on the sofa with a pair of IEM and a DAP. Looks like an enjoyable experience.
> 
> 
> 
> Wait until you hear its elder (younger?) brother E5000  E3k is quite moddable. Opening up its back vents can increase the soundstage and resolution a bit, but the bass can be a bit too much. I’m looking for a way to open its front vents to release a bit of bass. Re: A4000, it’s a technical IEM with love-it-or-hate-it tuning. Not sure I would recommend it without modding or EQ.



In my other comment I totally forgot to mention that I actually quite liked my Final E3000s before the nozzle decided to break off for no apparent reason and I will probably replace them at some point. The E5000s were pretty good, but something about the dark lushness of the E3Ks was more my speed I guess. However, I absolutely hated the A4000s. I tried them because I had a friend who was raving about his pair around when the came out (and he wasn't the only one). To me they sound very unnatural with some very odd timbral characteristics that make listening to and enjoying the music next to impossible for me. But those that love the A4Ks really love them. The friend who let me try them still counts them amongst his very favorite IEMs and he has quite a few from all pricepoints.

You basically nailed the Final Audio anlysis on this one. I 100% agree. Nice breakdown!


----------



## Ronion

Looks like Topping is taking a stab at making my Immortal Beloved (e12 MB) obsolete:  https://apos.audio/products/topping-g5-portable-dac-amp

In truth, you only get one first love.  Sorry Topping.  I’m spoken for.  I think 🤔


----------



## ttorbic

Stevehamny said:


> Re: the desktop amp for earbuds question, I'm also in the market and I know that the iFi Zen DAC V2 is very highly regarded as an all-in-one desktop unit. For under $200 it sounds like a no-brainer, but I'd be very interested to hear opinions from any of the fine fellow listeners here.


I have the ifi ZEN DAC v1 and would give it 3.5/5 stars. Pros: high build quality, decent power output, balanced and SE options, the DAC is nice smooth sounding. Cons: pretty high noise floor, so more than half of the IEMs I've tried had a hiss. Not a problem with earbuds so far. Power output doesn't seem to hit spec (according to ASR). Glitches at times with my Mac. 

I've purchased a zen CAN to complete my stack so I can power my 300 and eventually 500-600 Ohm earbuds


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Okay so you guys can let me know if you'd like me to stop posting these "first impressions" sketches of my earbud journey...I don't guarantee I'll listen though😜

The Astrotec Lyra Collections (150ohm version): Swing and a miss?

I have spent the last couple of hours listening to the Collections and I have to say that I am quite unimpressed. It's not that they're bad since they're actually a pretty good earbud. It's just that for $300 I expect an earbud to be exceptional at something, rather than just being good at multiple things. For this kinda money I'm not going to be okay with a pair of buds that is tuned inoffensively, has a good (not great soundstage), is pretty detailed, but easily surpassed by options that cost as much and even significantly less.

Granted, after 2 hours, I haven't put them through a nearly comprehensive enough test to say for sure that they don't have any stand out qualities. As I mentioned before, these are all first impressions and I won't be making any rash decisions based upon them. However, I have run through a playlist that I have put together specifically to provide variety that is very good at finding what a given transducer is good at and the Collections came through it like a solid B+ student. They did pretty good at a number of genres, but for each thing they did well I already have another bud that I'm keeping permanently or one I'm considering that did it better.

As I have explained, I hate having gear sitting around that I'm not using or likely to use and if the Collections don't pull something out of the hat pretty soon, I just don't have room for a $300 back up earbud. I will say that I hear enough potential in these earbuds that I could easily see someone considering them their perfect TOTL find if their tastes just leaned a little bit different than mine. When I finished trying out the Moondrop Chaconnes I had the same feeling. With that in mind I want to make it clear that the Astrotec Lyra Collections are a pretty good earbud that anyone looking for a mid focused neutral virging on neutral-bright tuned pair of earbuds would do well to consider when looking for a high end pair of flatheads. They have the potential to make the right person very happy.

For now I have returned to the awe inspiring sonic reckoning that is the DCA Stealth running full tilt off of my Timekeeper 3i. I just can't get over how ridiculously good this setup sounds.

On the docket for tomorrow Rose Technics Mojito and the Simphonio Dragon 3. Needless to say I'm stoked!


----------



## samandhi (Aug 17, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I never used it for earbuds, but I had the V1 years ago that I used primarily for IEMs and the occasional over ear and it was a nice combo. Of course, I hear the V2 is even better so I would imagine it would be a good option.
> 
> The only question I would have about it is whether or not it's rated for higher impedance options. I don't remember what the V1 was rated for, but with earbuds remember that it's not uncommon to run in to buds with impedance ratings from 300-600. It may not even be an issue if the V2 is rated for higher impedance level which it may very well be. And there are tons of great earbuds that fall into the easy to moderate to drive categories that I know the Zen DAC V2 can handle so if you wanted to you could easily avoid the really high impedance options.
> 
> ...


You have the Yinman 2.0 600 and what is the other high impedance option you have?


baskingshark said:


> @RikudouGoku and I use the Schiit Asgard 3 (solid state amp). What I like about it is it has gain switches so you can switch on the fly, and deal with low impedance/high sensitivity IEMs all the way to full sized power hungry gear.
> 
> It has low output impedance (won't mess around with FR of low impedance fussy stuff like the campfire andromeda), and has a warm neutral musical sound signature. Quite decent technicalities, dark background.
> 
> I think it frequently sells around $200ish USD, even cheaper if second hand.


Also, and to further @baskingshark's point, for those looking to purchase a(n) amp/DAC try and think ahead as to the range in impedances you might want to listen to. Because some amps are better suited to higher impedance head gear, and some lower. By this I mean that in the lower cost options you may not have the option to change the output impedance. Some amps have a higher output impedance so will not sound very good on efficient and low impedance buds (think of the rule of 8 for this).

Some amps have an option to switch this out for more versatility, but some don't and are fixed. Your best option for this is to buy as low as you can get, and if you need a higher output impedance, simply add a device to increase that into the mix.


JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay so you guys can let me know if you'd like me to stop posting these "first impressions" sketches of my earbud journey...I don't guarantee I'll listen though😜
> 
> The Astrotec Lyra Collections (150ohm version): Swing and a miss?
> 
> ...


I don't want you to stop. I rather enjoy reading your impressions on all of these buds.


----------



## yaps66

samandhi said:


> I don't want you to stop. I rather enjoy reading your impressions on all of these buds.


+1


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> One of the reasons I got into earbuds was because I could get a lot of the soundstage and presence available in over ears in a *truly* compact and portable package



I got into earbuds because I wanted to give my ear canals a rest. Didn’t expect these earbuds are so good   

No question about the sources and amp. I guess I’m just stingy so I buy transducers rather than sources. But I do not have much experience with sources beyond the usual dual Saber portable amps. Perhaps I’ll change my mind after getting more experience.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> I got into earbuds because I wanted to give my ear canals a rest. Didn’t expect these earbuds are so good
> 
> No question about the sources and amp. I guess I’m just stingy so I buy transducers rather than sources. But I do not have much experience with sources beyond the usual dual Saber portable amps. Perhaps I’ll change my mind after getting more experience.


It has been my experience that (especially nowadays) portable DAPs and DACs have become very good, so there is usually little to worry about (for output impedance, power output, signature, etc...). They REALLY have stepped up their game IMHO. 

As for myself, I don't have any desktop gear; I am so happy with my DAP. I have home stereo equipment, but it isn't as suited for head gear as a desktop setup would be. I simply use my DAP as both portable AND desktop. 

And, I got into buds because I remember them from MANY years ago (80's) and had seen on another thread that a member was using some buds with their flagship DAP. I wondered if they had gotten better. The rest is history, and I am SO glad the tech has come a long way, because I thought buds were pretty "meh" back then....


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> had seen on another thread that a member was using some buds with their flagship DAP



Funny that you mentioned. I just realised that if I went all in from the beginning, I would be able to afford that M11+ DAP, U12t, and a planar headphone (sundara? I don’t quite remember) that the hifi store showed me as a great allrounder setup. But no, I have to go around and around, and now I have a couple of DAC and tiny DAPs yet still no M11+   

Kind of bored of buying stuffs, though. I like how some reviewers build their own gears to share their sound signature with others. I would try to do the same thing. 

With that being said, where is FF5, my wallet is ready (I hope)


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Funny that you mentioned. I just realised that if I went all in from the beginning, I would be able to afford that M11+ DAP, U12t, and a planar headphone (sundara? I don’t quite remember) that the hifi store showed me as a great allrounder setup. But no, I have to go around and around, and now I have a couple of DAC and tiny DAPs yet still no M11+
> 
> Kind of bored of buying stuffs, though. I like how some reviewers build their own gears to share their sound signature with others. I would try to do the same thing.
> 
> With that being said, where is FF5, my wallet is ready (I hope)


I hear ya' there... But it is all relative, and if your ears are happy with the sound you get, then none of that other stuff really matters IMHO...


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 17, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay so you guys can let me know if you'd like me to stop posting these "first impressions" sketches of my earbud journey...I don't guarantee I'll listen though😜
> 
> The Astrotec Lyra Collections (150ohm version): Swing and a miss?
> 
> ...


The entire Lyra collection has been one huge disappointment for many of us here. All are rather lackluster (offering nothing special), boring as hell, and sometimes have rather wonky timbre with wretched sharp peaks and fatiguing sibilant highs with certain music genres and recordings (especially to those with sensitive hearing).


----------



## weexisttocease

Some random bad photos.


----------



## silverszi

DIY thread isn't very active
and I don't think I can live with anything standard (atleast without eq).


----------



## piknikkopi (Aug 17, 2022)

Hi everyone, would like to get opinion from people here about Fiio FF3 vs Yincrow RW-1000 or maybe Toneking Denroaspis Viridis due to them almost within the similar price range.
I'm looking for neutral-bright but not too excessively bright pair with good technicalities + strong in detail and resolution. I wouldn't mind bass but not boomy, not super recessed, but I like to keep it as flat as possible.
For reference, I've been loving TRN BA5, Tin T2 (the original), and Hzsound Heart Mirror. K's LBBS is an earbud that I really like as well but I would like to add one more into the collection but with a limited budget.


----------



## baskingshark

piknikkopi said:


> Hi everyone, would like to get opinion from people here about Fiio FF3 vs Yincrow RW-1000 or maybe Toneking Denroaspis Viridis due to them almost within the similar price range.
> I'm looking for neutral-bright but not too excessively bright pair with good technicalities + strong in detail and resolution. I wouldn't mind bass but not boomy, not super recessed, but I like to keep it as flat as possible.
> For reference, I've been loving TRN BA5, Tin T2 (the original), and Hzsound Heart Mirror. K's LBBS is an earbud that I really like as well but I would like to add one more into the collection but with a limited budget.



If you like the HZSound Heart Mirror/Tin T2 type signature, you can consider the NiceHCK EBX21. It is usually selling around 200ish but recently they seem to be clearing it at 1/2 price.

Good resolution, very technical/analytical, neutral bright. Lacks sub-bass though, and treble sensitive might find it too bright.


----------



## piknikkopi

baskingshark said:


> If you like the HZSound Heart Mirror/Tin T2 type signature, you can consider the NiceHCK EBX21. It is usually selling around 200ish but recently they seem to be clearing it at 1/2 price.
> 
> Good resolution, very technical/analytical, neutral bright. Lacks sub-bass though, and treble sensitive might find it too bright.



It's 219 at Ali, plus import taxes to where I live it'll be closing in at 300.
Appreciate the recommendation but those three I mentioned are the only one I can find in my local e-commerce. None of them close to signature of T2/HM?
If not, then I could eliminate requirements to only look for the best technicalities out of the three.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 17, 2022)

weexisttocease said:


> Some random bad photos.


Awesome, thank you for sharing those pics. They are not as light blue as I had thought but much darker deeper blue than what I was seeing in your first posted pic. Nice. I do like that darker blue color as well. If not too much trouble please post in some point of time the termination end of the dongle amp (just curious if there has been any changes from what I used before).


----------



## weexisttocease

WoodyLuvr said:


> Awesome, thank you for sharing those pics. They are not as light blue as I had thought but much darker deeper blue than what I was seeing in your first posted pic. Nice. I do like that darker blue color as well. If not too much trouble please post in some point of time the termination end of the dongle amp (just curious if there has been any changes from what I used before).


Yes. They are dark blue.

Here you have the photos you asked for (sorry about Freddie but he's curious)!


----------



## digititus

piknikkopi said:


> Hi everyone, would like to get opinion from people here about Fiio FF3 vs Yincrow RW-1000 or maybe Toneking Denroaspis Viridis due to them almost within the similar price range.
> I'm looking for neutral-bright but not too excessively bright pair with good technicalities + strong in detail and resolution. I wouldn't mind bass but not boomy, not super recessed, but I like to keep it as flat as possible.
> For reference, I've been loving TRN BA5, Tin T2 (the original), and Hzsound Heart Mirror. K's LBBS is an earbud that I really like as well but I would like to add one more into the collection but with a limited budget.


Yincrow RW-1000 Bass could work. Great detail and stage with fast bass. Very versatile buds.


----------



## piknikkopi

digititus said:


> Yincrow RW-1000 Bass could work. Great detail and stage with fast bass. Very versatile buds.


Do the bass version substantially different to the normal one? I mean do the original RW-1000 not have any bass at all?


----------



## silverszi

ValSuki said:


> Testing some designs, used in jet engines to reduce certain frequencies and also in JVC spiral dots! Im getting them done in resin so I will show the final build! (If i remember haha)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: looks a bit spooky!


Did you show these yet?


----------



## o0genesis0o

weexisttocease said:


> Yes. They are dark blue.
> 
> Here you have the photos you asked for (sorry about Freddie but he's curious)!



Those are some beautiful earphones and dongles.


----------



## baskingshark

Today, my kid in lower primary school required some earbuds for some online lessons and examinations (which requires the students to plug a earbud into a laptop for the exam). Apparently it tests listening comprehension etc and it will be used weekly.

So knowing that kids don't really know how to take care of audio gear, I decided to pass her a Vido ($1 USD lol) and some cheap Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0 Plus CE (also a cheap pair). She listened to those on some EDM tracks and she gave a "meh" grading, LOL she wasn't too impressed. The fit was okay with full foams, so it wasn't a fitting issue. Unfortunately, she saw a Smabat M2S Pro (I think it had the stock drivers) in the same compartment and immediately said she wanted to try it. Straight away she returned the Faaeal and Vido and refused to part with the M2S Pro; she packed it in her bag ASAP and left for school.

Dang, there goes my M2S Pro. Better hide the rest of the gear, in case the kid sees higher end stuff like the RW2000.

@WoodyLuvr now I know how you feel when your wife steals your earbuds. BTW my wife told me that a DUNU LUNA on loan sounded the same as a fake beats IEM she bought from a night bazaar on A/B testing. At least my kid knows the difference between a Vido and a M2S Pro, unfortunately one can't unhear the difference, and hence the M2S Pro has been stolen!


----------



## o0genesis0o

Evening listening with FF3: Chaconne in Bach's Violin Partita No.2 performed by Julia Fischer



FF3 sounds _beautiful_. Spacious, slightly warm, excellent dynamic control. Let's hope that Fiio actually knows how to replicate this result rather than hitting it randomly. Finger-crossed for FF5.



baskingshark said:


> BTW my wife told me that a DUNU LUNA on loan sounded the same as a fake beats IEM she bought from a night bazaar on A/B testing.


Sacrilegious! 
Anyhow, my friend told me that the modded KZ I gave him sounds better than my Andromeda, so. I guess different criteria?



baskingshark said:


> Better hide the rest of the gear, in case the kid sees higher end stuff like the RW2000.


Lucky for me that I have no kid and my wife dislikes my gears. She loves the XM4 headphone that I bought her though.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

baskingshark said:


> Today, my kid in lower primary school required some earbuds for some online lessons and examinations (which requires the students to plug a earbud into a laptop for the exam). Apparently it tests listening comprehension etc and it will be used weekly.
> 
> So knowing that kids don't really know how to take care of audio gear, I decided to pass her a Vido ($1 USD lol) and some cheap Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0 Plus CE (also a cheap pair). She listened to those on some EDM tracks and she gave a "meh" grading, LOL she wasn't too impressed. The fit was okay with full foams, so it wasn't a fitting issue. Unfortunately, she saw a Smabat M2S Pro (I think it had the stock drivers) in the same compartment and immediately said she wanted to try it. Straight away she returned the Faaeal and Vido and refused to part with the M2S Pro; she packed it in her bag ASAP and left for school.
> 
> ...


LOL! I hear you brother. Between my wife, eldest daughter, and the three to five other females that rotate and live in our home it is a wonder I have anything of value left! I literally have two small cubby hole areas that were supposedly designated as being mine... without failed they are invaded, pillaged, and/or rifled through on a daily basis without hesitation. Siamese women are unstoppable and they bite!


----------



## chinmie

WoodyLuvr said:


> LOL! I hear you brother. Between my wife, eldest daughter, and the three to five other females that rotate and live in our home it is a wonder I have anything of value left! I literally have two small cubby hole areas that were supposedly designated as being mine... without failed they are invaded, pillaged, and/or rifled through on a daily basis without hesitation. Siamese women are unstoppable and they bite!



i'm glad no one touches my collection at home   

my wife has her own airpod pro and those no name bluetooth sleeping eyepatch/earphones for sleeping, and my son is using my Sony WH XM3 headphones and a Samsung buds, other than that, my other gears are left untouched


----------



## Ronion (Aug 17, 2022)

piknikkopi said:


> Hi everyone, would like to get opinion from people here about Fiio FF3 vs Yincrow RW-1000 or maybe Toneking Denroaspis Viridis due to them almost within the similar price range.
> I'm looking for neutral-bright but not too excessively bright pair with good technicalities + strong in detail and resolution. I wouldn't mind bass but not boomy, not super recessed, but I like to keep it as flat as possible.
> For reference, I've been loving TRN BA5, Tin T2 (the original), and Hzsound Heart Mirror. K's LBBS is an earbud that I really like as well but I would like to add one more into the collection but with a limited budget.


The FiiO are more of a warm-neutral though it can be brightened with the other foams.  I personally prefer to brighten it more precisely with EQ because I don’t really like the way the other foams do the job.  Otherwise it fits your criteria but I haven’t heard the other buds you mention.


----------



## chavez

silverszi said:


> DIY thread isn't very active
> and I don't think I can live with anything standard (atleast without eq).


What have you tried so far? What models?


----------



## yaps66

baskingshark said:


> Today, my kid in lower primary school required some earbuds for some online lessons and examinations (which requires the students to plug a earbud into a laptop for the exam). Apparently it tests listening comprehension etc and it will be used weekly.
> 
> So knowing that kids don't really know how to take care of audio gear, I decided to pass her a Vido ($1 USD lol) and some cheap Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0 Plus CE (also a cheap pair). She listened to those on some EDM tracks and she gave a "meh" grading, LOL she wasn't too impressed. The fit was okay with full foams, so it wasn't a fitting issue. Unfortunately, she saw a Smabat M2S Pro (I think it had the stock drivers) in the same compartment and immediately said she wanted to try it. Straight away she returned the Faaeal and Vido and refused to part with the M2S Pro; she packed it in her bag ASAP and left for school.
> 
> ...


Your kid has got taste! Kudos!



WoodyLuvr said:


> LOL! I hear you brother. Between my wife, eldest daughter, and the three to five other females that rotate and live in our home it is a wonder I have anything of value left! I literally have two small cubby hole areas that were supposedly designated as being mine... without failed they are invaded, pillaged, and/or rifled through on a daily basis without hesitation. Siamese women are unstoppable and they bite!





chinmie said:


> i'm glad no one touches my collection at home
> 
> my wife has her own airpod pro and those no name bluetooth sleeping eyepatch/earphones for sleeping, and my son is using my Sony WH XM3 headphones and a Samsung buds, other than that, my other gears are left untouched


Haha! My buds and iems are all in the office. No one is touching that!


----------



## silverszi

chavez said:


> What have you tried so far? What models?


Monk+,Qian39, LBBs
I have grados sr60, ety er2se and blons too
i have eq'd my blons to what is basically a flat line as a target though because pinna gain sounds like crap to me.
I'll try to see what the approximate target curve is like now
I've got a faeel ancestor coming too because that is apparently quite flat


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> You have the Yinman 2.0 600 and what is the other high impedance option you have?
> 
> Also, and to further @baskingshark's point, for those looking to purchase a(n) amp/DAC try and think ahead as to the range in impedances you might want to listen to. Because some amps are better suited to higher impedance head gear, and some lower. By this I mean that in the lower cost options you may not have the option to change the output impedance. Some amps have a higher output impedance so will not sound very good on efficient and low impedance buds (think of the rule of 8 for this).
> 
> ...



For 600ohm earbuds I realized I actually have 3 on the way: Yinman 600 2.0, Toneking TO600, and Ksearphone K600. The K600 was actually a mistake by me on an order. I added the wrong bud, but rather than cancelling it I figured I'd just see how it is. It's unlikely that I'll keep more than 1 pair of these really high impedance models unless more than one is very special sonically because I can't picture myself doing enough earbud listening on sources that can drive a 600ohm bud to its full potential. That and I already have my eye on a DIY/custom pair that will land somewhere between 400-600ohms lol...

Thanks for the kind words about the earbud first impressions. I plan to keep posting them as I try buds to assemble my initial collection. So unless people get tired of it, I'll keep them coming. Cheers!


----------



## silverszi (Aug 17, 2022)

silverszi said:


> Monk+,Qian39, LBBs
> I have grados sr60, ety er2se and blons too
> i have eq'd my blons to what is basically a flat line as a target though because pinna gain sounds like crap to me.
> I'll try to see what the approximate target curve is like now
> I've got a faeel ancestor coming too because that is apparently quite flat






current target curve (green) although probably not very accurate due to unit variance and fit.
basically (inconsistent) bass leaning flat.
Something similar to these two I dont know which I prefer.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

WoodyLuvr said:


> The entire Lyra collection has been one huge disappointment for many of us here. All are rather lackluster (offering nothing special), boring as hell, and sometimes have rather wonky timbre with wretched sharp peaks and fatiguing sibilant highs with certain music genres and recordings (especially to those with sensitive hearing).



Yeah, I listened to the Lyra Collections some more since my insomnia kicked in pretty hard and my impressions of them have only gotten worse really. I still say that they have potential to be well liked, but for what they offer Inwould have to say that they're considerably overpriced. Mine will be moving on.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 17, 2022)

piknikkopi said:


> Hi everyone, would like to get opinion from people here about Fiio FF3 vs Yincrow RW-1000 or maybe Toneking Denroaspis Viridis due to them almost within the similar price range.
> I'm looking for neutral-bright but not too excessively bright pair with good technicalities + strong in detail and resolution. I wouldn't mind bass but not boomy, not super recessed, but I like to keep it as flat as possible.
> For reference, I've been loving TRN BA5, Tin T2 (the original), and Hzsound Heart Mirror. K's LBBS is an earbud that I really like as well but I would like to add one more into the collection but with a limited budget.



The Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis are one of my favorite buds with a neutral-bright tuning. The mids are very detailed and make female vocals in particular sound beautiful. The highs are very well extended, reproducing plenty of micro details and shimmer and injecting a soaring airiness into the whole sound signature. The bass is very tight and fast with very quick attack and decay. They low end definitely takes a back seat, but I wouldn't call it recessed. The Viridis offer lots of resolving ability and wilk give you the detail you're looking for. Overall these are probably my favorite neutral-bright specialist bud and they are very well worth the $86 I paid for them!

The FF3s are a fantastic bud, but they are definitely not a neutral bright tuning.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

baskingshark said:


> Today, my kid in lower primary school required some earbuds for some online lessons and examinations (which requires the students to plug a earbud into a laptop for the exam). Apparently it tests listening comprehension etc and it will be used weekly.
> 
> So knowing that kids don't really know how to take care of audio gear, I decided to pass her a Vido ($1 USD lol) and some cheap Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0 Plus CE (also a cheap pair). She listened to those on some EDM tracks and she gave a "meh" grading, LOL she wasn't too impressed. The fit was okay with full foams, so it wasn't a fitting issue. Unfortunately, she saw a Smabat M2S Pro (I think it had the stock drivers) in the same compartment and immediately said she wanted to try it. Straight away she returned the Faaeal and Vido and refused to part with the M2S Pro; she packed it in her bag ASAP and left for school.
> 
> ...



When can we expect the kid to start posting on this thread? LOL

Seriously though, as much as losing the Smabats must've hurt, I imagine this must have been a very proud papa moment. Congratulations, she got your ear!

The silver lining with the wife liking the knockoff Beats is that you don't have to worry about her stealing your buds too. I would still invest in padlocks or a safe for your collection. As you well know, the kid's desire for more and better buds is only gonna increse lol!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

WoodyLuvr said:


> LOL! I hear you brother. Between my wife, eldest daughter, and the three to five other females that rotate and live in our home it is a wonder I have anything of value left! I literally have two small cubby hole areas that were supposedly designated as being mine... without failed they are invaded, pillaged, and/or rifled through on a daily basis without hesitation. Siamese women are unstoppable and they bite!



They bite!?!?!? That's crazy lol!

My girlfriend is almost as far into headphones and audio as I am, but thankfully that means she came with her own collection and her own specific tastes haha! We have seperate music/office/listening rooms and she's just as protective of her gear as I am of mine. It works out great!

I don't have any kids of my own, but I have a neice that I helped raise who also has a budding headphone collection made up of many pairs of headphones/IEMs/earbuds that used to be in my collection. My collection sent a thank you note to her mother, my sister, when she moved them across the country and out of my house lol! I actually do a monthly listening session with my neice over Qobuz and video calls 🤘


----------



## silverszi

Why must my ears be weird
if they werent weird it would be far easier to listen to existing products.


----------



## ValSuki

silverszi said:


> Did you show these yet?


No.
They arrive on the 22nd.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

silverszi said:


> Why must my ears be weird
> if they werent weird it would be far easier to listen to existing products.



You've probably been asked this before, but what headphones/IEMs/earbuds do you own or have you tried aside from the Blon-03s that get close to what you're looking for without EQ, if any?


----------



## silverszi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> You've probably been asked this before, but what headphones/IEMs/earbuds do you own or have you tried aside from the Blon-03s that get close to what you're looking for without EQ, if any?


speakers
lol.


----------



## prakasitp

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hey guys, a pair of Simponio Dragon 3s that I totally forgot I had ordered showed up at my house today. I don't get home for two more days so I was hoping you guys could help assuage my curiosity and tide me over by telling me what to expect. I bought them because they were a set that was highly recommended by the friend of mine who helped guide me into looking for the best buds to try out for the few high end buds I want for the top of my collection.
> 
> I have had a few weeks with the HE 150Pros now and I have to say for a $23 bud these things are absolutely fantastic. Their bass reaches pretty deep and is smooth without being flabby or undetailed. The mids are definitely more male focused, but they sound amazing with gritiier male vocals like Mike Ness of Social Distortion or Steve Earle sounding particularly powerful just to name a couple standouts. The treble is ever so slightly rolled off so that the whole sonic presentation can best be decribed as smooth. They aren't the most technical buds around, but they aren't detail deficient either. Overall, they are a great, well tuned bud for relaxing and enjoyable listening sessions and they're so comfortable that those sessions can last for as long as you'd like.
> 
> ...


As a Ucotech ES-P1 owner, I’m agree with you. I really like the sound of this earbud. Now I’m looking for its competitor. Have you try Yincrow RW-3000? Or Smabat st-20 pro?


----------



## ttorbic

Just reporting back regarding ifi Zen DAC+CAN: I can confirm that the CAN has a lower noise floor (i guess lower output impedance), so I actually don't hear a hiss on my Yanyin Canon (10 Ohm impedance), whereas I hear it on just the DAC. Do I hear a difference between just DAC and DAC+CAN, now that I have over 5x the available power? Not sure, haven't A/Bed, but probably unlikely haha. At least I can drive 600 Ohm earbuds if/when I ever get them!


----------



## weexisttocease

The PXVV is being bad for my health, I'm addicted to it. I can't believe how good it sounds, especially for vocals. It's warm, natural and with plenty of details. No peaks or harsh treble. I've paired it with the DTR1+ and it sounds even better with more controlled bass and still lots of headroom. 

My only concern for now is the fit but probably is my fault since I'm always moving around. There's any foam donuts you could recommend? I've heard good things about the Hiegi foam cushions.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 17, 2022)

prakasitp said:


> As a Ucotech ES-P1 owner, I’m agree with you. I really like the sound of this earbud. Now I’m looking for its competitor. Have you try Yincrow RW-3000? Or Smabat st-20 pro?



I have actually been listening to the Yincrow RW-3000 a lot over the last 5 or 6 days since I got it. It's a very good earbud that I intend to keep for my collection for sure. Though its quite different from the Ucotech ES-P1. What are you looking for in your competitor? If you tell me that, I can probably give you a pretty good opinion on whether the RW-3000, or any of the other premium earbuds I have tried lately, would be a good match for you.

BTW, the Ucotech ES-P1 is one of the very best earbuds I have heard. It's very powerful, has incredible detail, and is one of the best built and most aesthetically pleasing earbuds I have come across in my search for TOTL earbuds/flatheads to add to my collection. My ES-P1s will likely have to be pried from my cold, dead fingers since that's the only way I plan on parting with them lol!

Edit: Have you tried any of the other Ucotech earbuds? I was wondering if any of their other offerings are worth trying as possible additions to my collection. Any thoughts you have regarding them would be appreciated.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

silverszi said:


> Why must my ears be weird
> if they werent weird it would be far easier to listen to existing products.


*"It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then." - Alice in Wonderland*


----------



## silverszi

WoodyLuvr said:


> *"It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then." - Alice in Wonderland*


I mean it's horrendously annoying not to be able to find anything that works well enough.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

weexisttocease said:


> The PXVV is being bad for my health, I'm addicted to it. I can't believe how good it sounds, especially for vocals. It's warm, natural and with plenty of details. No peaks or harsh treble. I've paired it with the DTR1+ and it sounds even better with more controlled bass and still lots of headroom.
> 
> My only concern for now is the fit but probably is my fault since I'm always moving around. There's any foam donuts you could recommend? I've heard good things about the Hiegi foam cushions.


I only use Hiegi!!! They are perfect for long listening sessions which I am prone to doing since I am retired...

*HongKong Hiegi Electronics Co., Limited*

A number of us highly recommend the denser *Hiegi *foams... I never had a dud and they seem to fend off dry rot well. Probably a slightly different material used (or maybe finishing spray applied) than all the other brands I have experienced.

Always a pleasure to receive Hiegi packages in the mail!



Spoiler: HongKong Hiegi Electronics Co., Limited_White & Black Flathead Earbud Foam Cushions


----------



## weexisttocease

WoodyLuvr said:


> I only use Hiegi!!! They are perfect for long listening sessions which I am prone to doing since I am retired...
> 
> *HongKong Hiegi Electronics Co., Limited*
> 
> ...



Thanks. I will buy them from AliExpress.


----------



## prakasitp

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I have actually been listening to the Yincrow RW-3000 a lot over the last 5 or 6 days since I got it. It's a very good earbud that I intend to keep for my collection for sure. Though its quite different from the Ucotech ES-P1. What are you looking for in your competitor? If you tell me that, I can probably give you a pretty good opinion on whether the RW-3000, or any of the other premium earbuds I have tried lately, would be a good match for you.
> 
> BTW, the Ucotech ES-P1 is one of the very best earbuds I have heard. It's very powerful, has incredible detail, and is one of the best built and most aesthetically pleasing earbuds I have come across in my search for TOTL earbuds/flatheads to add to my collection. My ES-P1s will likely have to be pried from my cold, dead fingers since that's the only way I plan on parting with them lol!
> 
> Edit: Have you tried any of the other Ucotech earbuds? I was wondering if any of their other offerings are worth trying as possible additions to my collection. Any thoughts you have regarding them would be appreciated.


actually, I’m very happy with ES-P1 though but due to curiosity and want to explore more on TOTL earbuds/flatheads, and like you, add to my collection.

I’m mostly listen to metal / progressive metal music so I kind of fond to a earbud that give detail in instrumental, no need heavy bass but have to be present and not roll off treble / high tone. Not sure how Yincrow RW3000 sound like but I have read a good review about it. Or if you have other premium earbud to recommend, much appreciated. 

For Smabat st-20 pro, I just read about the hybrid driver and interested to try one ie Fiio FH9, but I’m not a big fan of iem so if there is a flathead hybrid driver around, i would give it a try. 

I’m in Bangkok, Thailand, there is no Ucotech store / reseller here, so unfortunately I haven‘t try other Ucotech earbud.

I heard a good review for Fiio FF3, have you try it? but I think I will wait for FF5 which may come later this year.

Also read a good review on Audio Technica ATH-CM2000TI as well but haven’t got a chance to try it yet.


----------



## chavez

silverszi said:


> Monk+,Qian39, LBBs
> I have grados sr60, ety er2se and blons too
> i have eq'd my blons to what is basically a flat line as a target though because pinna gain sounds like crap to me.
> I'll try to see what the approximate target curve is like now
> I've got a faeel ancestor coming too because that is apparently quite flat


I wanted to suggest Ancestors. Midrange is a bit in the back, but you might like them.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

prakasitp said:


> actually, I’m very happy with ES-P1 though but due to curiosity and want to explore more on TOTL earbuds/flatheads, and like you, add to my collection.
> 
> I’m mostly listen to metal / progressive metal music so I kind of fond to a earbud that give detail in instrumental, no need heavy bass but have to be present and not roll off treble / high tone. Not sure how Yincrow RW3000 sound like but I have read a good review about it. Or if you have other premium earbud to recommend, much appreciated.
> 
> ...



I have tried and LOVE the FF3s. If you want an earbud that will sound absolutely massive for metal the FF3s are great! I was just listening to a playlist of Rammstein, Avenged Sevenfold, Bring Me The Horizon, We Came As Romans, Metallica, Ghost, etc on my FF3s through the Cayin RU6 last night (streamed off of Qobuz most of it was 24/44.1 hi-res or better) and it was monumental! The other guys on this thread will tell you that I rave about how huge and authoritative the FF3s sound all the time. They are ridiculously good at any price, but for $89-99 (the most common prices I have seen, but even cheaper through Fiio on AliExpress right now) they are an insane deal and as close to a can't miss purchase as it gets these days.

As for the RW-3000, I really like this earbud. It's quite neutral as far as the tuning goes, it provides a very detailed presentation, and has a very nice extended treble that leads to a very natural timbre and an easy, non-fatiguing listening experience. It's good at just about any genre you might listen to, but if I was looking for a bud specifically for metal, the RW-3000 probably wouldn't be it. The low end on the RW-3000 is good, but it doesn't have the depth and presence I like for metal and the mids lean a bit towards female vocals so male vocals, especially those needing some grit to them (like those in metal), can sometimes sound a little bit tame. This is just my opinion and there are other folks on here that own the RW-3000 that can offer theirs. It does however offer a nice compliment to the ES-P1. I say that because the only possible criticism I have of the Ucotechs is that the high end can sometimes lack a little energy and the RW-3000s have one of the best, well extended high end performances I have heard.

As for the Audio Technica CM2000Ti, the famous Iron Triangle, I didn't like it much. Not that it was bad, it just didn't suit my taste. I thought it sounded a bit thin and kinda boring especially compared to the ES-P1s which I was also trying out at the time. However, I know that there are plenty of people like my friend and @WoodyLuvr IIRC who like the CM2000Ti quite a bit.

I hope this was helpful!


----------



## silverszi

chavez said:


> I wanted to suggest Ancestors. Midrange is a bit in the back, but you might like them.


We shall see_ if _i like them when they arrive.
I should post impressions lmao it'd be funny


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 17, 2022)

If you guys were me and you were being offered a free gift from a store in the form of the Ks LBBS, the Yincrow RW-1000, or the BGVP DX6 which one would you choose and why?

Edit: i should mention that the RW-1000 is the bass version.


----------



## silverszi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> If you guys were me and you were being offered a free gift from a store in the form of the Ks LBBS, the Yincrow RW-1000, or the BGVP DX6 which one would you choose and why?


Do you have any of them already?
This is assuming your signature is innaccurate


----------



## JAnonymous5150

weexisttocease said:


> The PXVV is being bad for my health, I'm addicted to it. I can't believe how good it sounds, especially for vocals. It's warm, natural and with plenty of details. No peaks or harsh treble. I've paired it with the DTR1+ and it sounds even better with more controlled bass and still lots of headroom.
> 
> My only concern for now is the fit but probably is my fault since I'm always moving around. There's any foam donuts you could recommend? I've heard good things about the Hiegi foam cushions.



I love Hiegi foams, but I also bought some from a "brand" called NullMini on AliExpress that are quite good as well. The rest that I have either came with buds I bought or are random AE foams I purchased just to try because they looked different (thinner, thicker, different material, etc) than other foams and I was looking to have as many foam options as possible for experimenting.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

silverszi said:


> Do you have any of them already?
> This is assuming your signature is innaccurate



Nope. I don't have, nor have I tried, any of these three buds.


----------



## silverszi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Nope. I don't have, nor have I tried, any of these three buds.


My take would be take the one with the least pinna gain but I don't know you


----------



## silverszi

I searched for threads in here and there's not much info on the DX6
and apparently the RW-1000 bass version has a good soundstage according to a guy who heard according to someone else
and I cannot recommend the LBBS for starting to break after a few days of use and destroying my ears without eq.


----------



## silverszi

Ive been thinking
I'm surprised nobody has tried to produce any portable audio that has a flatline frequency response so that it is easier to eq to target.


----------



## syazwaned

silverszi said:


> Ive been thinking
> I'm surprised nobody has tried to produce any portable audio that has a flatline frequency response so that it is easier to eq to target.


qudelik 5k comes to mind


----------



## Ronion (Aug 17, 2022)

prakasitp said:


> As a Ucotech ES-P1 owner, I’m agree with you. I really like the sound of this earbud. Now I’m looking for its competitor. Have you try Yincrow RW-3000? Or Smabat st-20 pro?


ST20 pro is not neutral/bright.  It’s an ice pick to your cranium.


----------



## Ronion

silverszi said:


> Ive been thinking
> I'm surprised nobody has tried to produce any portable audio that has a flatline frequency response so that it is easier to eq to target.


Vido/X6.  Fairly close right out of the box.


----------



## mt877

baskingshark said:


> Today, my kid in lower primary school required some earbuds for some online lessons and examinations (which requires the students to plug a earbud into a laptop for the exam). Apparently it tests listening comprehension etc and it will be used weekly.
> 
> So knowing that kids don't really know how to take care of audio gear, I decided to pass her a Vido ($1 USD lol) and some cheap Faaeal Snow Lotus 1.0 Plus CE (also a cheap pair). She listened to those on some EDM tracks and she gave a "meh" grading, LOL she wasn't too impressed. The fit was okay with full foams, so it wasn't a fitting issue. Unfortunately, she saw a Smabat M2S Pro (I think it had the stock drivers) in the same compartment and immediately said she wanted to try it. Straight away she returned the Faaeal and Vido and refused to part with the M2S Pro; she packed it in her bag ASAP and left for school.
> 
> ...





WoodyLuvr said:


> LOL! I hear you brother. Between my wife, eldest daughter, and the three to five other females that rotate and live in our home it is a wonder I have anything of value left! I literally have two small cubby hole areas that were supposedly designated as being mine... without failed they are invaded, pillaged, and/or rifled through on a daily basis without hesitation. Siamese women are unstoppable and they bite!


For the woman in your life you'll just have to step up and get them this (some guys like bling too):

NOVA H1 Audio Earrings, the only clip-on earphones on the planet (Kickstarter). Not a bud, not an IEM, it's a bluetooth clip-on audio earring.


Spoiler: NOVA H1 Audio Earrings



NOVA H1 Audio Earrings are the first clip-on earphones on the planet. These Earrings are fully packed with the latest technology embedded in real pearls to provide you with music, phone calls and digital assistants all day long.

Like conventional earrings, the NOVA H1 are placed on the earlobes and project the sound from inside the pearl straight into your ear canal.

Thanks to our worldwide patented Directional Sound Technology, the sound travels from the earlobe to the ear canal avoiding sound leakage and keeping your conversations and music private and secure.

Two tiny high-end microphones are integrated into each Earring providing the user with crystal clear phone calls and wind-noise cancelation.


----------



## mt877

silverszi said:


> speakers
> lol.


Wow, did they look like this?


----------



## silverszi

mt877 said:


> Wow, did they look like this?


probably the simplest solution


----------



## silverszi

Ronion said:


> ST20 pro is not neutral/bright.  It’s an ice pick to your cranium.


20dB pinna gain "neutral"


----------



## o0genesis0o

silverszi said:


> Ive been thinking
> I'm surprised nobody has tried to produce any portable audio that has a flatline frequency response so that it is easier to eq to target.



Not earbuds (since I have zero experience beside FF3 and Apple dirty buds), but there are some IEMs tuned the way you mentioned. Jerry Harvey seems to emphasise “flat line to 20k”. Fiio FA7 and FA7s are also unusually flat around ear gain region.

Noted that all of the IEMs I mentioned sound kind of weird (to me)


----------



## weexisttocease

Listening to Susanne Sundfor. Female vocals are intoxicating with the PXVV.🤤


----------



## Ronion

silverszi said:


> 20dB pinna gain "neutral"


That said, with an EQ it’s an awesome bud!


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> That said, with an EQ it’s an awesome bud!



Is there anyway to physically retune it to reduce the ear gain?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Simphonio Dragon 3 first impressions:

When I first looked at the pictures of the Dragon 3 on the webpage offering them for sale I couldn't help but think: "$400+ for some earbuds with a fixed cable and a plastic PK shell seems a bit steep for me. These better be something special." The ONLY reason I went through with purchasing these is because one of the people who was recommending them and telling me how impressive they are is a friend, audio enthusiast, and musician whose opinions on audio matters I respect and value highly.

Upon opening the box containing the Dragon 3s this morning, I again had the same thought. However, I will say that once you pick them up and inspect them you can tell that they are actually quite well made. I would still greatly prefer a detachable cable and earbuds are the only medium I have encountered where they aren't standard on premium products. Some of that, I'm told, is because of the way attaching connectors to pk, MX500, and similar shells apparently negatively effects the acoustic properties of the shells. I'll leave my beliefs on that for another time. Suffice to say that I have bitten yhe bullet and bought many fixed cable premium buds because many of the supposed best out there have them.

Rant over and back to the Dragon 3s. The cable is actually very nice. As a guy who braids and makes my own cables, I can say that this cable is braided cleanly, it's reasonably thick and supple, made of quality materials, etc. The shells have are in fact plastic, but they have a nice kinda shimmery finish that gives them a bit of a premium look to make you feel okay spending that cash lol!

Remember when I said that these buds better be something special for that kinda money? Well they definitely seem to be! They have a big 3D soundstage and great imaging abilities to place sources within that soundstage, but, more importantly, the Dragon 3s have this incredible combination of tons of detail, snappy attack, and natural decay alongside a very laid back and smooth musical presentation that makes it so the listener can decide to engage in a full on critical examination of the music or let themselves slip into an audio reverie as they please. Whichever they prefer at any given time. This is a decidedly rare quality in any transducer medium, IMO and is actually very reminiscent of the qualities I love in ZMF headphones and their presentation that led me to owning two of their sets.

The Dragon 3s have a bass section that goes reasonably deep and is nimble and punchy that makes listening to funky bass lines and driving percussion very fun. The mids are packed, and I mean packed, with detail equal to some of the best earbuds I have heard and offer great instrument separation and balance to boot. The treble is very nicely extended and gives cymbals some of the most realistic decay I have yet heard. The Dragon 3s do an insane job making the music feel like it's being played for you by the artists rather than coming through a set of earbuds. When you open your eyes and look at the fairly humble package producing this musical experience it's hard not to be a little awed by the whole thing. 

I can say for sure that the Dragon 3s are staying. Of all the premium buds I have tried over the last week or so only the Yincrow RW-3000, the Shozy BK, and these badass Dragon 3s have for sure worked their way into my lineup and none did it quicker or with a bigger splash than the Dragon 3s. I'm very impressed with these earbuds. I can't overstate that.

The Rose Technics Mojitos are up next for their trial run...


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Simphonio Dragon 3



Oh my they are expensive.

I mean I know that these standard shells are perhaps the most practical from both wearing and acoustic point of view, but the way they look makes their pricing feel really steep. It's shallow, but I would have no trust blind buying these buds for that price.

* Edit for grammar. What's wrong with my grammar nowadays


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 17, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> It's shallow, but I would have no trust blind buying these buds for that price.



I feel you. Like I said, if it wasn't for this one specific friend insisting that the Dragon 3s were the tits, I doubt I ever would have tried them. The pricing is still steep, but given the sonic performance of other buds in and around that price they are at least backing up that price tag with top shelf performance. My buddy showed me an email chain between him, the folks and Penon Audio, and the designer of the Dragon 3s and they guy defends the materials decisions pretty eloquently. He basically says that the PK shells were chosen specifically because of their acoustic properties and fit and the cables are fixed for two reasons: 1) Attaching mmcx connectors to the shells compromise their acoustic integrity/performance and 2) He basically said that he believes that certain cable materials bring certain sonic properties to the table and he doesn't want people butchering his design and compromising their performance with crappy cables and his brand suffering for it in reviews. The guy said he would rather take the hit from people mentioning that they hate detachable cables than from people saying the Dragon 3s don't sound top notch. Whether or not you believe those explanations is up to you.

All I can say is that thus far I am quite pleased that I purchased these buds. They are the first set from this latest shipment that actually wowed me. I was taken aback by how good they sounded from pretty much minute one.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Aug 17, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I feel you. Like I said, if it wasn't for this one specific friend insisting that the Dragon 3s were the tits, I doubt I ever would have tried them. The pricing is still steep, but given the sonic performance of other buds in and around that price they are at least baking up that price tag with top shelf performance. My buddy showed me an email chain between him, the folks and Penon Audio, and the designer of the Dragon 3s and they guy defends the materials decisions pretty eloquently. He basically says that the PK shells were chosen specifically because of their acoustic properties and fit and the cables are fixed for two reasons: 1) Attaching mmcx connectors to the shells compromise their acoustic integrity/performance and 2) He basically said that he believes that certain cable materials bring certain sonic properties to the table and he doesn't want people butchering his design and compromising their performance with crappy cables and his brand suffering for it in reviews. The guy said he would rather take the hit from people mentioning that they hate detachable cables than from people saying the Dragon 3s don't sound top notch. Whether or not you believe those explanations is up to you.
> 
> All I can say is that thus far I am quite pleased that I purchased these buds. They are the first set from this latest shipment that actually wowed me. I was taken aback by how good they sounded from pretty much minute one.



Not to flak the guy. If I have the clout like some major reviewers out there, I would love to talk to the audio engineers behind products to understand why they decide to build a product the way they do. I mean, as a reviewer, I complain and nitpick a lot of stuffs, so I always want to hear expert opinions about my b***s**t.

Anyhow, imagine the blood bath if big shots with strong R&D and economy of scale like Fiio entering the ear bud game. Interestingly, many elder audiophiles that I talk to _love _Fiio. Younger ones? Not so much ("poorly tuned", "generic V-shaped", "muddy", "boomy", etc.)


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 17, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Not to flak the guy. If I have a clout like some major reviewers out there, I would love to talk to the audio engineers behind products to understand why they decide to build a product the way they do. I mean, as a reviewer, I complain and nitpick a lot of stuffs, so I always want to hear expert opinions about my b***s**t.
> 
> Anyhow, imagine the blood bath if big shots with strong R&D and economy of scale like Fiio entering the ear bud game. Interestingly, many elder audiophiles that I talk to _love _Fiio. Younger ones? Not so much ("poorly tuned", "generic V-shaped", "muddy", "boomy", etc.)



I don't know if I qualify as an audiophile or whether I would be younger or older, but I think Fiio has put out some pretty good products *cough* FF3 *cough*!

Seriously though, like any company Fiio has had some misses as well, but I give them props for making high performance audio affordable and widespread. They do a good job at that no doubt!

As for the earbud market, I'm all for anyone who can produce good sounding buds to enter the market and duke it out. May the best buds survive style, you know what I mean? As for the Dragon 3s, sure I would love it if the builder/designer got this sound out of a metal shell with a detachable cable. I think what he's asking people to pay for a PK shell and all that is a bit much. I'm glad I've gotten to hear them because they really are VERY good sounding. We'll see how they hold up over the long run. For now, I'm more than happy with them.

Edit: BTW, comparing the Dragon 3s to the ZMFs is about as high a compliment as I can pay to them.


----------



## christianfps

Hi guys! Can't wait for my FF3s to arrive and experience what you guys are talking about this buds!

Quick question though as I'm a relatively newbie.

Is there such a thing as DAC overkill for earbuds, iems? I'm planning to partner my FF3s with my FX Audio DAC X6 2.0s and was wondering if it would give too much power to them and maybe produce some noise or hiss?


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 18, 2022)

christianfps said:


> Hi guys! Can't wait for my FF3s to arrive and experience what you guys are talking about this buds!
> 
> Quick question though as I'm a relatively newbie.
> 
> Is there such a thing as DAC overkill for earbuds, iems? I'm planning to partner my FF3s with my FX Audio DAC X6 2.0s and was wondering if it would give too much power to them and maybe produce some noise or hiss?



There's such a thing as amp overkill. An amp that's too powerful can make it so you have very little to no ability to adjust the volume and can make it easier to blow out the drivers on your buds or harm your hearing. Looking at your X-6 on Amazon/Google it's not a crazy powerful combo so as long as you keep the volume turned down when you start and adjust up from there, you should be fine. This is a technique I would recommend anyways for any amp or combo so you end up listening at the lowest suitable volume rather than starting off to high. It's a big reason why I still have significantly better hearing than the average person my age despite being an avid headphone user for almost 30 years.

When an amp is to noisy you'll hear hissing or static over a sensitive enough earbud. I haven't found any reliable noise floor statements or measurments on your X-6 so you might just have to see how it goes.

You're in for a real treat with the FF3s! Let me/us know how you like them once they show up. When are you expecting to get them?


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Simphonio Dragon 3 first impressions:
> 
> When I first looked at the pictures of the Dragon 3 on the webpage offering them for sale I couldn't help but think: "$400+ for some earbuds with a fixed cable and a plastic PK shell seems a bit steep for me. These better be something special." The ONLY reason I went through with purchasing these is because one of the people who was recommending them and telling me how impressive they are is a friend, audio enthusiast, and musician whose opinions on audio matters I respect and value highly.
> 
> ...


WOW! Excellent impressions. I had no issue paying $400 for the Maria II, but I gotta' admit that I probably wouldn't have looked twice at those before. I only bought the Chaconne because I was waiting for the Ucotech, or I probably wouldn't even have bought those (w/fixed cable).  

Morale of the story is that sometimes looks (apparently) can be deceiving. 


christianfps said:


> Hi guys! Can't wait for my FF3s to arrive and experience what you guys are talking about this buds!
> 
> Quick question though as I'm a relatively newbie.
> 
> Is there such a thing as DAC overkill for earbuds, iems? I'm planning to partner my FF3s with my FX Audio DAC X6 2.0s and was wondering if it would give too much power to them and maybe produce some noise or hiss?


Yes, you CAN overdrive head gear, but in most cases, it is not an issue (in either safety for the gear, nor detrimental to the sound). Though you CAN have some hiss sometimes depending on just HOW sensitive they head gear is. 

I would be more worried about the output impedance of this amp (8 ohms) for more efficient gear; while it may not cause hiss, the sound reproduction might not sound "right". I wouldn't worry too much about power output as it looks like it only delivers something like 2.5Vrms (I didn't find the specs, but a graph of someone that measured power loaded, so I might be wrong on this one).


----------



## christianfps

JAnonymous5150 said:


> When an amp is to noisy you'll hear hissing or static over a sensitive enough earbud. I haven't found any reliable noise floor statements or measurments on your X-6 so you might just have to see how it goes.
> 
> You're in for a real treat with the FF3s! Let me/us know how you like them once they show up. When are you expecting to get them?



I too, haven't used earbuds for quite a long time now so I'm quite excited!

Probably by next week if it doesn't get lost at sea hahaha!



samandhi said:


> I would be more worried about the output impedance of this amp (8 ohms) for more efficient gear; while it may not cause hiss, the sound reproduction might not sound "right". I wouldn't worry too much about power output as it looks like it only delivers something like 2.5Vrms (I didn't find the specs, but a graph of someone that measured power loaded, so I might be wrong on this one)



Thank you very much for your inputs! It's also my first dac and just bought it to drive my Hifiman HE400SE coz it's power hungry haha!


----------



## samandhi

christianfps said:


> I too, haven't used earbuds for quite a long time now so I'm quite excited!
> 
> Probably by next week if it doesn't get lost at sea hahaha!
> 
> ...


Well, hopefully it sounds perfect to your ears...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

So just a quick thought: Often times lately when I have been doing a lot of headphone or earbud trials and critical listening and I just want a good low key listen with solid performance that won't fatigue me, one of the options I have been reaching for consistently are my FAAEAL Rosemarys. Are they the best or most detailed buds? Nope. Are they one heck of a solid earbud for the money? Hell yes. Put on some blues or some solid indie rock with some dirty, crunchy guitars and male vocalists with a little bit of grit to their delivery and you're in relaxed listening heaven. I have a few go to comfy kick back sets (headphones, IEMs, and earbuds/flatheads) and the Rosemarys are a solid addition to their ranks.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Is there anyway to physically retune it to reduce the ear gain?


You'd have to tear it apart like @FranQL did.  He's a madman LOL.  Some may say an outlaw.

I noticed that the bass on my FiiO keeps getting better--stronger, deeper, and clearer.  So I decided to measure and test my sanity.
The measurements do support that.

I also got a package of VE Foams in today as well as Trig Rain.  The Trig Rain measure a lot like the FiiO Crisp and the new FiiO still measure a lot like Lew FiiO Bass.  The FiiO foams are the most comfortable in my ears and the Trig Rain are like putting dish scrubbers in your ears.  Once they are in they are not bad, but the process sucks.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> You'd have to tear it apart like @FranQL did.  He's a madman LOL.  Some may say an outlaw.



I think he might even be a gunslinger... that's the word on the street these days.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> You'd have to tear it apart like @FranQL did.  He's a madman LOL.  Some may say an outlaw.
> 
> I noticed that the bass on my FiiO keeps getting better--stronger, deeper, and clearer.  So I decided to measure and test my sanity.
> The measurements do support that.
> ...



Hey, I have some of these Trig Rain foams on the way! When I was going through AE ordering a bunch of unique looking foams so I'd have a wide selection they caught my eye. They remind me of those copper wire Chore Boy pads that people used to use for scrubbing dishes back in the day. Sounds like they feel about the same lol!


----------



## Ronion (Aug 18, 2022)

These are the 4 bassist(sp?) buds I've measured.  One is the SMABAT ST20Pro in opposite ears.  One is the under $20 HE150.  The FF3 and a homemade bud are the others.  The best tuned is the Homemade (FiiO a close second and seems to handle power better than any bud I've owned), but it died on me several times.


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hey, I have some of these Trig Rain foams on the way! When I was going through AE ordering a bunch of unique looking foams so I'd have a wide selection they caught my eye. They remind me of those copper wire Chore Boy pads that people used to use for scrubbing dishes back in the day. Sounds like they feel about the same lol!


They feel a lot like that!  I bet they would help that HE150 sound more balanced.  Nonetheless, the 150 is a lot of fun to listen to and a TOTL with EQ.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> You'd have to tear it apart like @FranQL did.  He's a madman LOL.  Some may say an outlaw.
> 
> I noticed that the bass on my FiiO keeps getting better--stronger, deeper, and clearer.  So I decided to measure and test my sanity.
> The measurements do support that.
> ...





JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hey, I have some of these Trig Rain foams on the way! When I was going through AE ordering a bunch of unique looking foams so I'd have a wide selection they caught my eye. They remind me of those copper wire Chore Boy pads that people used to use for scrubbing dishes back in the day. Sounds like they feel about the same lol!


Yeah, I got some Trig Rain foams a while back, and they don't sound bad, but I agree with fitment. They are like a pot scrubber. At least they will keep the bud clean, or in the case of plastic buds scratch them up... 

Edit: My wife still uses them BTW!


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Trig Rain foams ....
> 
> Edit: My wife still uses them BTW!


To scrub the pots and pans in the doll house?


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> To scrub the pots and pans in the doll house?


Yes!


----------



## Ronion (Aug 18, 2022)

Just to let you guys know that I'm not lying when I say building buds is EZ.  Here's literally the first bud I ever built vs. the FiiO that people are raving about (myself included).  This driver is in every DIY seller's stable and it's what everyone refers to as the 150 Ohm Blue Glue.  The total cost for this build was $11.  I didn't have a working measurement rig at that point in time and I never even listened to it and tried to fix it.  I just soldered, snapped and heard that is was good.  Kept it for a baseline.  It's still enjoyable and beats every commercial bud I've bought except the FiiO FF3.  $11 and about 4 minutes.  And for the guy who doesn't want pinna gain.... well here you go.  A great driver, no pinna gain, little effort.  Don't be lazy


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Has anyone on here tried the Tiandirenhe Red Sandlewood MMCX flatheads on AliExpress? They're another random one that caught my eye based on looks. I couldn't find jack about how they sound, but they look pretty tasty!


----------



## syazwaned

baskingshark said:


> @RikudouGoku and I use the Schiit Asgard 3 (solid state amp). What I like about it is it has gain switches so you can switch on the fly, and deal with low impedance/high sensitivity IEMs all the way to full sized power hungry gear.
> 
> It has low output impedance (won't mess around with FR of low impedance fussy stuff like the campfire andromeda), and has a warm neutral musical sound signature. Quite decent technicalities, dark background.
> 
> I think it frequently sells around $200ish USD, even cheaper if second hand.


Thanks, Schiit is unfortunately unavailable un my country. But I can surely look in the used market. Warm neutral musical  is sort of my preferred tonality


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 18, 2022)

syazwaned said:


> Thanks, Schiit is unfortunately unavailable un my country. But I can surely look in the used market. Warm neutral musical  is sort of my preferred tonality



Hold on, did you end up not buying that MT-602 for $50 or are you looking for solid state recommendations on top of that now?


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> Just to let you guys know that I'm not lying when I say building buds is EZ.  Here's literally the first bud I ever built vs. the FiiO that people are raving about (myself included).  This driver is in every DIY seller's stable and it's what everyone refers to as the 150 Ohm Blue Glue.  The total cost for this build was $11.  I didn't have a working measurement rig at that point in time and I never even listened to it and tried to fix it.  I just soldered, snapped and heard that is was good.  Kept it for a baseline.  It's still enjoyable and beats every commercial bud I've bought except the FiiO FF3.  $11 and about 4 minutes.  And for the guy who doesn't want pinna gain.... well here you go.  A great driver, no pinna gain, little effort.  Don't be lazy



I suddenly realised how (falsely?) assuring it is in the IEM and headphone world when I have stable measuring standards and scientifically derived targets to lean on. No matter how I try to convince myself, ear buds graphs still look weird   I don't think that big bump at the boxy 600Hz region can sound good, though I know FF3 sounds quite correct in real life.


----------



## silverszi

Ronion said:


> Just to let you guys know that I'm not lying when I say building buds is EZ.  Here's literally the first bud I ever built vs. the FiiO that people are raving about (myself included).  This driver is in every DIY seller's stable and it's what everyone refers to as the 150 Ohm Blue Glue.  The total cost for this build was $11.  I didn't have a working measurement rig at that point in time and I never even listened to it and tried to fix it.  I just soldered, snapped and heard that is was good.  Kept it for a baseline.  It's still enjoyable and beats every commercial bud I've bought except the FiiO FF3.  $11 and about 4 minutes.  And for the guy who doesn't want pinna gain.... well here you go.  A great driver, no pinna gain, little effort.  Don't be lazy


150 ohm is my only issue


----------



## JAnonymous5150

silverszi said:


> 150 ohm is my only issue



Why is 150ohm an issue? A reasonably sensitive 150ohm pair of buds can be driven off small dongle combos, a decent Bluetooth dac/amp, and some would say even off a regular dongle. I assumed that driveability was what you meant by 150ohm being an issue.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> I suddenly realised how (falsely?) assuring it is in the IEM and headphone world when I have stable measuring standards and scientifically derived targets to lean on. No matter how I try to convince myself, ear buds graphs still look weird   I don't think that big bump at the boxy 600Hz region can sound good, though I know FF3 sounds quite correct in real life.



Haha, I'm still trying to get used to it myself. Though, tbh, I have never put too much stock in graphs anyways. They can be useful in getting a general idea of what something might sound like, but my ears tell me that graphs rarely tell the whole story. Sometimes, though this is rare, the way something graphs and what my ears hear can be downright incongruous. As I said though, they're useful especially for times when you can't get a demo opportunity so you're either buying blind or not at all.


----------



## Ronion

silverszi said:


> 150 ohm is my only issue


Runs great on a dongle.  Not sure what else you could want.



o0genesis0o said:


> I suddenly realised how (falsely?) assuring it is in the IEM and headphone world when I have stable measuring standards and scientifically derived targets to lean on. No matter how I try to convince myself, ear buds graphs still look weird   I don't think that big bump at the boxy 600Hz region can sound good, though I know FF3 sounds quite correct in real life.


Now that tuning of the Blue Glue isn’t perfect, but you know how that FiiO sounds.  You can see that the bump is also inherent in my rig.  You can also see that the FiiO measures slightly dark with my calibration just as it sounds with the bass foams on.  I’d pretty much bet you’d still enjoy this BG tuning.   Not so much for the tuning, but the inherent properties of the driver are well above the baseline bud drivers.  Anyway, That’s why I post my calibration so often.  It should be considered neutral and it won’t look like any IEM grapher’s standardized rig.  This one will require an understanding of the situation or just trust that every time I post a graph, impressions of it match it’s position relative to the calibration.  The baseline of those other measurements are not calibrated properly to begin with and why there are soooo many of them from the same rig.  Please read how they were calibrated and you’ll see the start was not well thought out (if not, just ask) and they’ve been trying to fix them without fixing the start of the problem ever since.  

Much better tunings of that driver can be done with off the shelf parts and 8 minutes of your time.


----------



## silverszi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Why is 150ohm an issue? A reasonably sensitive 150ohm pair of buds can be driven off small dongle combos, a decent Bluetooth dac/amp, and some would say even off a regular dongle. I assumed that driveability was what you meant by 150ohm being an issue.


I don't have any form of dap currently and it would be slightly problematic for me to fit even a dongle in my pocket because i would most likely damage the cable
i can try though but it just increases the price a bit and do headphone jack daps exist or all they all usb?


----------



## silverszi

I assume a 3.5mm jack can't draw more power than it outputs by default


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> Runs great on a dongle.  Not sure what else you could want.
> 
> 
> Now that tuning of the Blue Glue isn’t perfect, but you know how that FiiO sounds.  You can see that the bump is also inherent in my rig.  You can also see that the FiiO measures slightly dark with my calibration just as it sounds with the bass foams on.  I’d pretty much bet you’d still enjoy this BG tuning.   Not so much for the tuning, but the inherent properties of the driver are well above the baseline bud drivers.  Anyway, That’s why I post my calibration so often.  It should be considered neutral and it won’t look like any IEM grapher’s standardized rig.  This one will require an understanding of the situation or just trust that every time I post a graph, impressions of it match it’s position relative to the calibration.  The baseline of those other measurements are not calibrated properly to begin with and why there are soooo many of them from the same rig.  Please read how they were calibrated and you’ll see the start was not well thought out (if not, just ask) and they’ve been trying to fix them without fixing the start of the problem ever since.
> ...



I haven't tried working with this driver yet, but for anyone wondering my experience the other night putting together my first DIY buds jives with what @Ronion is saying completely. I was surprised at how good I had that earbud sounding after just a few iterations of listening and then retuning by ear. Granted, I didn't measure the buds, but I know what good buds sound like and I was shocked at how quickly I could solder up a pair of earbuds that sounded pretty darn good. I was eaually surprised at how easy it was to make some basic and effective tuning adjustments using premade supplies and tips from 15 minutes of reading.

The point of saying all that being, I think anyone looking for an earbud with a tuning that doesn't seem to exist could get reasonably close with cheap parts, a soldering iron, minimal knowledge, and a little time. I just did my little build while listening to some tunes at my work bench in my garage. Though, I'm still interested yo see just how good any old idiot like myself can make their own DIY buds...


----------



## o0genesis0o (Aug 18, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Runs great on a dongle.  Not sure what else you could want.
> 
> 
> Now that tuning of the Blue Glue isn’t perfect, but you know how that FiiO sounds.  You can see that the bump is also inherent in my rig.  You can also see that the FiiO measures slightly dark with my calibration just as it sounds with the bass foams on.  I’d pretty much bet you’d still enjoy this BG tuning.   Not so much for the tuning, but the inherent properties of the driver are well above the baseline bud drivers.  Anyway, That’s why I post my calibration so often.  It should be considered neutral and it won’t look like any IEM grapher’s standardized rig.  This one will require an understanding of the situation or just trust that every time I post a graph, impressions of it match it’s position relative to the calibration.  The baseline of those other measurements are not calibrated properly to begin with and why there are soooo many of them from the same rig.  Please read how they were calibrated and you’ll see the start was not well thought out (if not, just ask) and they’ve been trying to fix them without fixing the start of the problem ever since.
> ...



Not a criticism, just an observation or feeling from someone who is still too used to IEM graph  

I think I might have bought that driver. There was one package deal with driver and a pair of Mx500 shell. I also got a metal driver for a metal shell ear buds.

Anyhow, all are still somewhere in China. Can’t wait to get my hands on them and start building.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

silverszi said:


> I don't have any form of dap currently and it would be slightly problematic for me to fit even a dongle in my pocket because i would most likely damage the cable
> i can try though but it just increases the price a bit and do headphone jack daps exist or all they all usb?



Yeah, all DAPs that I have ever owned have headphone jacks. Some even have multiple jacks (my current high end DAP has three: 2.5mm balanced, 3.5mm single ended, and 4.4mm balanced and my budget DAP has your standard 3.5mm single ended). 

As for dongles, you'd be surprised at how durable they are. I do a lot of running around with my phone and a dongle shoved into my back pocket, listening to music while I shop or run errands or get work done. I have never had a dongle break on me or anything. I might be lucky in that respect, but I don't think dongles are as fragile or problematic as you're thinking they are.

I'm not a stranger to working on a tight budget. I did the starving musician thing for a number of years. These days you can pick up a a dongle for anywhere between $10 and $30 bucks that will decode hi-res files up to DSD stuff and will have a cleaner, more powerful output than your phone. If you're not sure about it, just try a cheap one that looks well built and see how it works for you. Especially if you're willing to buy off of AliExpress there are countless cheap dongles in and around the $10 range that are built well and will sound pretty damn good with a pair of buds or IEMs of your choosing, even the 150ohm versions mentioned before. You have to get into higher impedance and lower sensitivity stuff before you NEED more power to drive them.

I'd hate to see you stay in musical limbo so any help I can provide I will. If you have questions about dongles you're looking at feel free to ask. If you'd rather I just posted some suggestions, just give me a budget and I will. I have a pretty large collection of dongles because they're cheap and a great way to be able to mix and match different DACs with different traits on the go or even as part of an audio chain with a bigger independent amp so I know my dongles lol!


----------



## silverszi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Yeah, all DAPs that I have ever owned have headphone jacks. Some even have multiple jacks (my current high end DAP has three: 2.5mm balanced, 3.5mm single ended, and 4.4mm balanced and my budget DAP has your standard 3.5mm single ended).
> 
> As for dongles, you'd be surprised at how durable they are. I do a lot of running around with my phone and a dongle shoved into my back pocket, listening to music while I shop or run errands or get work done. I have never had a dongle break on me or anything. I might be lucky in that respect, but I don't think dongles are as fragile or problematic as you're thinking they are.
> 
> ...


Thanks
Id kinda still rather use a 32ohm driver however because my pc doesn't have usb c so I wouldn't be able to use the same dongle with it.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 18, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Has anyone on here tried the Tiandirenhe Red Sandlewood MMCX flatheads on AliExpress? They're another random one that caught my eye based on looks. I couldn't find jack about how they sound, but they look pretty tasty!


Those are the *Daik aka DK (Ming Jiang 鳴匠) DK-宋* *Song *which have been rebranded/renamed one million times on AliExpress and Taobao (even FENGRU has a DK-宋 Song clone). They have also been cloned and unfortunately badly copied as well which adds to the confusion. The company is now known as *Ming Jiang 鳴匠* and the Daik - DK branding has all but disappeared since 2017.

2015 - Daik (Ming Jiang 鳴匠) DK-晋 Jin; 32Ω (fixed cable)​2016 - Daik (Ming Jiang 鳴匠) DK-晋 Jin Upgrade; 35Ω (w/ fixed cable or mmcx)​*2016 - Daik (Ming Jiang 鳴匠) DK-宋 Song; 16Ω (w/ fixed cable or mmcx)*​*2017 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 DK-宋 Song Red Sandalwood Upgrade; 29Ω (w/ fixed cable or mmcx)*​2018 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-坎 Kan 32; 32Ω (MMCX; named after NBA Star Enes Kanter)​2018 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-坎 Kan 150; 150Ω (mmcx)​2018 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-坎 Kan 600; 600Ω (mmcx)​2018 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-震 Zhen Shock Sleeping Bud; 30Ω (mmcx)​2019 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-600 Brazilian Rosewood; 600Ω (mmcx)​2019 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-600 Ebony Wood; 600Ω (mmcx)​2019 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-600 Sunda Mahogany Wood; 600Ω (mmcx)​2019 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-兌 Dui Blend Sleeping Bud; 31Ω (mmcx)​*2020 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 DK-宋 Song 2020 Upgrade; 16Ω (mmcx)*​2020 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-蘑菇 Mogu Mushroom; 16Ω (w/ fixed cable or mmcx)​2021 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-霜降 Frostfall Limited Edition; 32Ω (mmcx)​2021 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-霜降 Frostfall Standard Edition; 32Ω (mmcx)​2021 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-小滿 Xiaoman; 35Ω (mmcx)​​DK-宋 Song clones:​2019 - FENGRU DIY 14.3MM Wooden Flathead; 32Ω (DK-宋 Song clone; mmcx only; no cable included)​2022 - Tiandirenhe Handmade Red Sandalwood; ~16-36Ω (DK-宋 Song clone; mmcx)​

They were very well regarded back in 2015-2017 and gave rise to the Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 brand. They are good but I would recommend a more refined Longyao-Yinman model now a days although the newest model "Frostfall" that debuted Christmas time in 2021 has peaked my interest but I have yet to hear one.

If you are still curious about the DK-Song I would recommend you buy from Ming Jiang (Daik) directly and order their latest 2020 upgrade of the *DK-宋 Song*:

*Daik (Ming Jiang 鳴匠) DK-宋 Taobao Store Front*


----------



## yaps66

silverszi said:


> Thanks
> Id kinda still rather use a 32ohm driver however because my pc doesn't have usb c so I wouldn't be able to use the same dongle with it.


You don't need your PC to have USB C to use a dongle.  My PC does not have USB C.  My iPhone does not have USB C and I use both with dongles.  Most dongles that you buy will have a USB A to USB C cable or a USB C to USB C (with an adapter to connect to USB A) so you should not have any issues there.


----------



## yaps66

Still on embargo but Zeos just shilled the FF3 and said at the end that he would love to do a collab with FiiO to do a FZ3. Haha!


----------



## o0genesis0o

yaps66 said:


> Still on embargo but Zeos just shilled the FF3 and said at the end that he would love to do a collab with FiiO to do a FZ3. Haha!



He is going to make the ear pieces red and blue?   

But seriously, these FF3 are good head-fi gear regardless of type and price, IMHO.


----------



## syazwaned

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hold on, did you end up not buying that MT-602 for $50 or are you looking for solid state recommendations on top of that now?


apparently somebody else already snatched that deal 😭. I missed it because I was too late 😅


----------



## o0genesis0o

Not exactly ear buds related, but since you guys are talking about source, I have a question. I’m kind of wondering whether I am insane somehow because I swear that the soundstage is different between my btr5 via bluetooth and my KA3 via lightning cable connected to my phone. And I am hearing this on Andromeda, which requires peanut in terms of power to run properly. Weird.

I’m hearing difference between sources? This is bad for my wallet. Would love to hear confirmation that I am imagining and this is placebo


----------



## baskingshark

o0genesis0o said:


> Not exactly ear buds related, but since you guys are talking about source, I have a question. I’m kind of wondering whether I am insane somehow because I swear that the soundstage is different between my btr5 via bluetooth and my KA3 via lightning cable connected to my phone. And I am hearing this on Andromeda, which requires peanut in terms of power to run properly. Weird.
> 
> I’m hearing difference between sources? This is bad for my wallet. Would love to hear confirmation that I am imagining and this is placebo



There is a difference between sources bro. Bluetooth has generally less sonic fidelity than wired gear.

Even within wired sources, some sources are more coloured versus neutral sources, some sources are more technical (soundstage/micro-details/instrument separation better than analoguish sources). 

But personally, the transducer gives the most bang for buck when upgrading. After that eartips/foams are the next big change in sound, followed by the amplifier. I would personally rank DAC and cables as the least significant in changing the sound, and probably you should upgrade the other areas first.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 18, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> There is a difference between sources bro. Bluetooth has generally less sonic fidelity than wired gear.
> 
> Even within wired sources, some sources are more coloured versus neutral sources, some sources are more technical (soundstage/micro-details/instrument separation better than analoguish sources).
> 
> But personally, the transducer gives the most bang for buck when upgrading. After that eartips/foams are the next big change in sound, followed by the amplifier. I would personally rank DAC and cables as the least significant in changing the sound, and probably you should upgrade the other areas first.


Totally concur! Very well put *@baskingshark*.

*Transducers > Cushions/Tips > AMP > DAC > Other Accessories (cables, adapters, voodoo)*

The only time I think a cable may come in earlier would be an audio extension cable for convenience and security purposes only though.


----------



## o0genesis0o

WoodyLuvr said:


> Transducers > Cushions/Tips > AMP > DAC > OTHER ACCESSORIES (cables, adapters, voodoo)



Same opinion here, though I admit that I have been a bit close-minded about amp and DAC. In certain situations, a bit coloured source might make a difference. 

I mean I heard the soundstage difference between wired and bluetooth with btr5 for a while but tend to brush it aside because “audio science people say it’s just an illusion”. It was a bit eye opening when Andromeda digs out that difference that put in on a silver plate before me. Testing with other transducers now.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 18, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Same opinion here, though I admit that I have been a bit close-minded about amp and DAC. In certain situations, a bit coloured source might make a difference.
> 
> I mean I heard the soundstage difference between wired and bluetooth with btr5 for a while but tend to brush it aside because “audio science people say it’s just an illusion”. It was a bit eye opening when Andromeda digs out that difference that put in on a silver plate before me. Testing with other transducers now.


Most certainly a good amp and DAC can very well make a world of difference but generally speaking when allocating funds, transducers is where it is at... this is coming from the clown who owns a nearly $4K custom earbud tube amp  !


----------



## o0genesis0o

So, not only soundstage and resolution are different between wired and wireless, they are also a bit different between my btr5 and KA3 even though they are supposed to have similar architecture. I have a feeling that KA3 has a bit of boost in subbass. 

I have also listened to my HD560s and Beyerdynamic COP+ headphones again after months. FF3 is at least as spacious sounding as COP+ (Closed back) and deeper but narrower than HD560s. Tonality of FF3 is warmer and thicker than HD560s (uncomfortably shrill without EQ). Resolution of FF3 is better than my COP+, though that might not say much, given the COP+ is not a well performing piece of kit.


----------



## piknikkopi (Aug 18, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> If you like the HZSound Heart Mirror/Tin T2 type signature, you can consider the NiceHCK EBX21. It is usually selling around 200ish but recently they seem to be clearing it at 1/2 price.
> 
> Good resolution, very technical/analytical, neutral bright. Lacks sub-bass though, and treble sensitive might find it too bright.





digititus said:


> Yincrow RW-1000 Bass could work. Great detail and stage with fast bass. Very versatile buds.



After doing some reading within this thread and from recommendation of multiple users here, I'm going for Yincrow RW-1000. Really appreciate the inputs.
But local online seller said that they don't have the one that says bass pro version, as they only have the "Daniu Pro Version". They told me this is the bass version.

I'm not sure if this is the bass pro version, the original, or is it something else?
Impedance is 24ohm so it's not the high impedance version.

The box looks something like this (got this from google):





Does anyone have any idea what variant of the RW-1000 is this? Is this really the bass version?

-----

Update:
Also found this review in AE, says they have the bass boosted with box that says Daniu Pro Version.
Not official Yincrow seller or whatever, but only options available are 80ohm and Bass Boosted Version.
My assumption is that the latest batches might only have two variant, but the bass version is now called the Daniu Pro (?) there's no way there's fakes for these kinds of things right. Most of the conversation about the original vs the bass pro is mostly within 2020 to early 2021, then I gues the Rw-2000 came out then nobody really talk about the RW-1000 anymore so that nobody is really talking about the 1000s getting their name changed in the new batch (?)








Optional variants: only bass boosted or 80ohm, with different jack/plug sizes


----------



## dududs

I need some help. I'm using kbear stellar for 2 years now and i really like the sound signature but i want a upgrade that has detachable cable, right now im thinking of buying either the TRN EMA or the RY4S mmcx, do you have some recommendations in the same price range?


----------



## DBaldock9

WoodyLuvr said:


> Those are the *Daik aka DK (Ming Jiang 鳴匠) DK-宋* *Song *which have been rebranded/renamed one million times on AliExpress and Taobao (even FENGRU has a DK-宋 Song clone). They have also been cloned and unfortunately badly copied as well which adds to the confusion. The company is now known as *Ming Jiang 鳴匠* and the Daik - DK branding has all but disappeared since 2017.
> 
> 2015 - Daik (Ming Jiang 鳴匠) DK-晋 Jin; 32Ω (fixed cable)​2016 - Daik (Ming Jiang 鳴匠) DK-晋 Jin Upgrade; 35Ω (w/ fixed cable or mmcx)​*2016 - Daik (Ming Jiang 鳴匠) DK-宋 Song; 16Ω (w/ fixed cable or mmcx)*​*2017 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 DK-宋 Song Red Sandalwood Upgrade; 29Ω (w/ fixed cable or mmcx)*​2018 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-坎 Kan 32; 32Ω (MMCX; named after NBA Star Enes Kanter)​2018 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-坎 Kan 150; 150Ω (mmcx)​2018 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-坎 Kan 600; 600Ω (mmcx)​2018 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-震 Zhen Shock Sleeping Bud; 30Ω (mmcx)​2019 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-600 Brazilian Rosewood; 600Ω (mmcx)​2019 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-600 Ebony Wood; 600Ω (mmcx)​2019 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-600 Sunda Mahogany Wood; 600Ω (mmcx)​2019 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-兌 Dui Blend Sleeping Bud; 31Ω (mmcx)​*2020 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 DK-宋 Song 2020 Upgrade; 16Ω (mmcx)*​2020 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-蘑菇 Mogu Mushroom; 16Ω (w/ fixed cable or mmcx)​2021 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-霜降 Frostfall Limited Edition; 32Ω (mmcx)​2021 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-霜降 Frostfall Standard Edition; 32Ω (mmcx)​2021 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-小滿 Xiaoman; 35Ω (mmcx)​​DK-宋 Song clones:​2019 - FENGRU DIY 14.3MM Wooden Flathead; 32Ω (DK-宋 Song clone; mmcx only; no cable included)​2022 - Tiandirenhe Handmade Red Sandalwood; ~16-36Ω (DK-宋 Song clone; mmcx)​
> 
> ...



I have the DK Song, and for a smallish earbud, they have a nice 'warm" sound. It's been a while since I compared them - but maybe like the Qian 39. (Probably both with donut foams)


----------



## JAnonymous5150

yaps66 said:


> Still on embargo but Zeos just shilled the FF3 and said at the end that he would love to do a collab with FiiO to do a FZ3. Haha!



The FF3 look better without being cast in red and blue and the last thing they need is someone ****ing up their tuning by bloating the bass lol!

I've seen enough of these dumb ****in' reviewer-manufacturer collaborations to last me a lifetime...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

syazwaned said:


> apparently somebody else already snatched that deal 😭. I missed it because I was too late 😅



That's horrible man! You can find the MT-602 new for around $100 usd if you really want that amp specifically.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

dududs said:


> I need some help. I'm using kbear stellar for 2 years now and i really like the sound signature but i want a upgrade that has detachable cable, right now im thinking of buying either the TRN EMA or the RY4S mmcx, do you have some recommendations in the same price range?



I just got a pair of the TRN EMAs in last week and they have been a surprisingly fun earbud. I added them to an order on whim not knowing what to expect and have been enjoying them ever since they showed up. For $8 you can't go wrong with the EMAs.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 21, 2022)

piknikkopi said:


> After doing some reading within this thread and from recommendation of multiple users here, I'm going for Yincrow RW-1000. Really appreciate the inputs.
> But local online seller said that they don't have the one that says bass pro version, as they only have the "Daniu Pro Version". They told me this is the bass version.
> 
> I'm not sure if this is the bass pro version, the original, or is it something else?
> ...


*Daniu / Daniel Pro Version = Daniu / Daniel Enhanced Version = Bass Version*

Daniu <<Dà niú >> is the Chinese pronunciation of *大牛* which means "Big Cow" / "Big Cattle" and is the nickname for the RW-1000. A few shops not realizing that it was Big Cow in Chinese thought the nickname was Daniel! Thus why you may see both names Daniu and Daniel being used. The pro version is the bass enhanced model. And the high resistance version or resistance edition is the higher impedance 80Ω model.

*The Yincrow Cow Series*​
*2019*​*Yincrow RW-1000 大牛 Big Cow Standard Edition; 24Ω *(aka Daniu / Daniel)​*Yincrow RW-1000 大牛 Big Cow Bass Edition; 24Ω *(aka Daniu / Daniel Pro Version; Daniu / Daniel Enhanced Version)​*Yincrow RW-1000 大牛 Big Cow High Impedance Edition; 80Ω *(aka Daniu / Daniel High Resistance Version; Daniu / Daniel Resistance Edition)​​*2020*​*Yincrow RW-2000 野牛 Bison; 16Ω*​​*2021*​*Yincrow RW-3000 天牛 Heavenly Cow; 16Ω*​​*2022*​*Yincrow 小牛 Calf; 26Ω*​


----------



## JAnonymous5150

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Daniu / Daniel Pro Version = Daniu / Daniel Enhanced Version = Bass Version*
> 
> Daniu <<Dà niú >> is the Chinese pronunciation of *大牛* which means "Big Cow" / "Big Cattle" and is the nickname for the RW-1000. A few shops not realizing that it was Big Cow in Chinese thought the nickname was Daniel! Thus why you may see both names Daniu and Daniel being used. The pro version is the bass enhanced model. And the high resistance version or resistance edition is the higher impedance 80Ω model.
> 
> *2019*​*Yincrow RW-1000 大牛 Big Cow Standard Edition; 24Ω *(aka Daniu / Daniel)​*Yincrow RW-1000 大牛 Big Cow Bass Edition; 24Ω *(aka Daniu / Daniel Pro Version; Daniu / Daniel Enhanced Version)​*Yincrow RW-1000 大牛 Big Cow High Impedance Edition; 80Ω *(aka Daniu / Daniel High Resistance Version; Daniu / Daniel Resistance Edition)​​*2020*​*Yincrow RW-2000 野牛 Bison; 16Ω*​​*2021*​*Yincrow RW-3000 天牛 Heavenly Cow; 16Ω*​



Like an earbud encyclopedia only funnier! Ladies and gentlemen, I give you WoodyLuvr!

Thanks for being helpful as always!


----------



## Setmagic

Ronion said:


> Just to let you guys know that I'm not lying when I say building buds is EZ.  Here's literally the first bud I ever built vs. the FiiO that people are raving about (myself included).  This driver is in every DIY seller's stable and it's what everyone refers to as the 150 Ohm Blue Glue.  The total cost for this build was $11.  I didn't have a working measurement rig at that point in time and I never even listened to it and tried to fix it.  I just soldered, snapped and heard that is was good.  Kept it for a baseline.  It's still enjoyable and beats every commercial bud I've bought except the FiiO FF3.  $11 and about 4 minutes.  And for the guy who doesn't want pinna gain.... well here you go.  A great driver, no pinna gain, little effort.  Don't be lazy


Are You challenge me?
I have 3 dollars build that I can assemble in less than 3 minutes.


----------



## Ronion

Setmagic said:


> Are You challenge me?
> I have 3 dollars build that I can assemble in less than 3 minutes.


We should have a build Olympics!


----------



## Setmagic

Ronion said:


> We should have a build Olympics!


Golden Bud Championship


----------



## silverszi

Ronion said:


> We should have a build Olympics!


and someone should do measurements so I know whose house to break into


----------



## drewbadour

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, sir. The Saber 1 is the Berserker 1 with less bass. The following is a link to their tuning signature descriptions = _ten (10) available models_


Have you A/B'd both before? If so, would be curious to see how they compare! I'm not a basshead by any means but I do enjoy bass boost.


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> There is a difference between sources bro. Bluetooth has generally less sonic fidelity than wired gear.
> 
> Even within wired sources, some sources are more coloured versus neutral sources, some sources are more technical (soundstage/micro-details/instrument separation better than analoguish sources).
> 
> But personally, the transducer gives the most bang for buck when upgrading. After that eartips/foams are the next big change in sound, followed by the amplifier. I would personally rank DAC and cables as the least significant in changing the sound, and probably you should upgrade the other areas first.





WoodyLuvr said:


> Totally concur! Very well put *@baskingshark*.
> 
> *Transducers > Cushions/Tips > AMP > DAC > Other Accessories (cables, adapters, voodoo)*
> 
> The only time I think a cable may come in earlier would be an audio extension cable for convenience and security purposes only though.


Although, I would make the argument that if your source is TOO colored one way or the other, you may have a harder time finding head gear that synergizes well with it (to your ears) rather than if you had one that was closer to neutral. It is easier to go whichever way you want if the source ISN'T the (main) cause of coloration. 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> The FF3 look better without being cast in red and blue and the last thing they need is someone ****ing up their tuning by bloating the bass lol!
> 
> *I've seen enough of these dumb ****in' reviewer-manufacturer collaborations to last me a lifetime...*


Amen! 


Ronion said:


> We should have a build Olympics!


I will be the judge.... Send them all to ME!


----------



## mt877

Ronion said:


> Just to let you guys know that I'm not lying when I say building buds is EZ.  Here's literally the first bud I ever built vs. the FiiO that people are raving about (myself included).  This driver is in every DIY seller's stable and it's what everyone refers to as the 150 Ohm Blue Glue.  The total cost for this build was $11.  I didn't have a working measurement rig at that point in time and I never even listened to it and tried to fix it.  I just soldered, snapped and heard that is was good.  Kept it for a baseline.  It's still enjoyable and beats every commercial bud I've bought except the FiiO FF3.  $11 and about 4 minutes.  And for the guy who doesn't want pinna gain.... well here you go.  A great driver, no pinna gain, little effort.  Don't be lazy


The 150Ω BG is a fantastic driver. Pretty cheap for the MX500 shell and driver combo deal. Throw in a reasonably priced 3.5SE cable and you have a good start to a fantastic set of buds. Stock tuning with full foams attached can produce decent bass with emphasized midrange while treble is reduced. Probably perfect for someone who has pinna gain issues. Afraid of that 150Ω impedance? Don't think your computer (probably standard Realtek) 3.5SE headphone output can drive these guys? You would be mistaken. Heck my Sony NW-A17 which outputs 10mW per channel can drive these guys with authority. I mean I can crank the volume up so high with that A17 it would be unwise and reckless to my hearing. So know that these drivers don't require a lot of power to sound fantastic. Where the 150Ω BG really shine is with the right tuning, which by the way is not the stock tuning, but it's a good start.


----------



## syazwaned

JAnonymous5150 said:


> That's horrible man! You can find the MT-602 new for around $100 usd if you really want that amp specifically.




Not my luck I guess 😅. Question, can I used Questyle M15 as a dac, and Mt602 as an amp? or I need a desktop dac?


----------



## syazwaned (Aug 18, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Although, I would make the argument that if your source is TOO colored one way or the other, you may have a harder time finding head gear that synergizes well with it (to your ears) rather than if you had one that was closer to neutral. It is easier to go whichever way you want if the source ISN'T the (main) cause of coloration.




Agree. I generally have to source; warm and technical, each to compensate any weakness my earbuds / iem have.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

syazwaned said:


> Not my luck I guess 😅. Question, can I used Questyle M15 as a dac, and Mt602 as an amp? or I need a desktop dac?



I am not familiar with the Questyle M15 so I would ask others. Whether or not a combo with an integrated amp can be plugged into another amplifier can vary from device to device.


----------



## samandhi

syazwaned said:


> Not my luck I guess 😅. Question, can I used Questyle M15 as a dac, and Mt602 as an amp? or I need a desktop dac?


It doesn't appear that the Questyle M15 has a LO (though I could be wrong here), so while you CAN hook it up this way, you will most likely be double amping the signal.


----------



## samandhi (Aug 18, 2022)

syazwaned said:


> Not my luck I guess 😅. Question, can I used Questyle M15 as a dac, and Mt602 as an amp? or I need a desktop dac?


Also, if you DO decide to hook it up this way be careful of the connections between the two. If your Mt602 has a balanced input then you could use either the SE or the balanced out of the M15, but if the Mt602 has SE input, you can ONLY use SE from the M15. Otherwise, you would be shorting grounds.

Hope that makes sense to you?!


----------



## samandhi (Aug 18, 2022)

In order to bypass the amp section of the DAC you will be looking for either a line out, or coax/optical out. You will also need one of these connections on the input side of the amp. Though you CAN use RCA input on the amp for the coax and LO as long as the cable is wired correctly. The tricky part on the amp side is the line-in. It can be either SE or balanced, and can be 3.5mm, 2.5mm, or 4.4mm, or even XLR..

Hope I am not confusing the issue further?! If it is too much to think about, and you really want a tube amp, I would suggest either getting a DAP that has nutube built in, or a DAC/amp combo that you can just plug in a source and be done.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> It doesn't appear that the Questyle M15 has a LO (though I could be wrong here), so while you CAN hook it up this way, you will most likely be double amping the signal.



This is precisely why I wasn't sure. I didn't know about a line out or a bypass.


----------



## fooltoque

Does the concept of something like an open-back IEM exist? I like the idea of an in-ear tip to get the sound predictably close to the eardrum. It really enables so many great strategies like multiple hybrid drivers. But there is that plugged feeling you get with isolation. 

I know that some IEMs come with some venting for pressure equalization and that does help, for example I've tried the Moondrop S8 which has no venting at all, and had to take it out of my ears after about 10 seconds. But I have never seen an IEM that actively tries to be 'open'. 

I think that you guys would definitely know about it if it exists.

Also @samandhi and others thank you for the suggestions about using silicon over top of the foams. My EM5s have now become this wonderful monstrosity. 


Spoiler


----------



## Ronion (Aug 18, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> So, not only soundstage and resolution are different between wired and wireless, they are also a bit different between my btr5 and KA3 even though they are supposed to have similar architecture. I have a feeling that KA3 has a bit of boost in subbass.
> 
> I have also listened to my HD560s and Beyerdynamic COP+ headphones again after months. FF3 is at least as spacious sounding as COP+ (Closed back) and deeper but narrower than HD560s. Tonality of FF3 is warmer and thicker than HD560s (uncomfortably shrill without EQ). Resolution of FF3 is better than my COP+, though that might not say much, given the COP+ is not a well performing piece of kit.


It was eye opening to me hen I discovered that not only could earbuds hang with big cans, they can beat them in many ways.  The Blur PK32 taught me that.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

fooltoque said:


> Does the concept of something like an open-back IEM exist? I like the idea of an in-ear tip to get the sound predictably close to the eardrum. It really enables so many great strategies like multiple hybrid drivers. But there is that plugged feeling you get with isolation.
> 
> I know that some IEMs come with some venting for pressure equalization and that does help, for example I've tried the Moondrop S8 which has no venting at all, and had to take it out of my ears after about 10 seconds. But I have never seen an IEM that actively tries to be 'open'.
> 
> ...



There are IEMs with varying sizes of ports and grilles varying the degree of openness, but you'd probably get better action on your post in a suitable IEM thread, rather than one about earbuds.


----------



## fooltoque

JAnonymous5150 said:


> There are IEMs with varying sizes of ports and grilles varying the degree of openness, but you'd probably get better action on your post in a suitable IEM thread, rather than one about earbuds.


I understand what you are saying, and it may be rude of me to bend the topic, but the conversation just never seems to connect with people who like IEMs. 

Me: I'd like an IEM, but open
IEM thread: But then you wouldn't get good isolation
Me: I don't want isolation
IEM thread: ???

At least here there are a ton of people who value non-isolating buds, so I figured you all might have looked for this type of option.


----------



## shenshen

fooltoque said:


> I understand what you are saying, and it may be rude of me to bend the topic, but the conversation just never seems to connect with people who like IEMs.
> 
> Me: I'd like an IEM, but open
> IEM thread: But then you wouldn't get good isolation
> ...


Understandable, I had this exact experience in person recently with a bunch of IEM lover friends. In the end, they couldn't understand the point of earbuds, but that's fine, it's not for everyone.


----------



## samandhi

fooltoque said:


> Does the concept of something like an open-back IEM exist? I like the idea of an in-ear tip to get the sound predictably close to the eardrum. It really enables so many great strategies like multiple hybrid drivers. But there is that plugged feeling you get with isolation.
> 
> I know that some IEMs come with some venting for pressure equalization and that does help, for example I've tried the Moondrop S8 which has no venting at all, and had to take it out of my ears after about 10 seconds. But I have never seen an IEM that actively tries to be 'open'.
> 
> ...


Those look fantastic(ally) comfortable. 

As for open backed IEMs, there have actually been some in the past and present (Xioami Piston II, Raptgo Hook-X, etc..) however there is one major caveat to this. While they ARE open, they seal as if they weren't (to a point). This helps with staging and resonance, but the monitors themselves are so small that the drivers generally get in the way. So, take the Hook-X as an example. They don't seal quite as much as a closed IEM, but they still have that "plugged" feeling that you were alluding to. 

Here is an example picture to show you the open nature of the Hook-X (which is the most open I have ever seen in an IEM thus far). If you didn't know, hold your mouse over the picture to get a zoomed in version.


----------



## samandhi (Aug 18, 2022)

fooltoque said:


> I understand what you are saying, and it may be rude of me to bend the topic, but the conversation just never seems to connect with people who like IEMs.
> 
> Me: I'd like an IEM, but open
> IEM thread: But then you wouldn't get good isolation
> ...


I also understand your dilemma. There is no real presence for the "Frankestein" that you are looking for. No place in buds, and no place in IEMs.

As for me, I like the idea that you are alluding to also. But alas, while there are some that are open, they don't really sound like it (enough). As mentioned earlier, the Hook-X come closest for me (you CAN hear surroundings better, but not near enough to call them truly open). BTW, this DOES make these IEMs very airy and have some of the biggest staging that I have heard in an IEM (short of my IT-07 that is).

If you want to discuss more about these as an open option, you can go here.


----------



## samandhi

fooltoque said:


> Does the concept of something like an open-back IEM exist? I like the idea of an in-ear tip to get the sound predictably close to the eardrum. It really enables so many great strategies like multiple hybrid drivers. But there is that plugged feeling you get with isolation.
> 
> I know that some IEMs come with some venting for pressure equalization and that does help, for example I've tried the Moondrop S8 which has no venting at all, and had to take it out of my ears after about 10 seconds. But I have never seen an IEM that actively tries to be 'open'.
> 
> ...


Also, you might consider a hybrid of sorts. Something like this, are actually a pretty good solution. While they aren't THE best in anything, they definitely don't sound like crap either. I used to own these (used them while at work because of their open nature), and they actually sound good. They have sound as if they were in-ear, but are completely open in nature, and you can hear everything around you. 

They are really like an earbud with a tip that directs the sound into your ears.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

fooltoque said:


> I understand what you are saying, and it may be rude of me to bend the topic, but the conversation just never seems to connect with people who like IEMs.
> 
> Me: I'd like an IEM, but open
> IEM thread: But then you wouldn't get good isolation
> ...



Go to Penon Audio and check out the Yuin OK1. It's a flathead earbud that comes with a pair of tips with a nozzle that goes into your ear canal. I always wondered who the target customer base was for them since that seems to ruin at least part of what's great about an earbud, the non-insertion fit. I guess they knew that there are people like you looking for hybrid!


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Go to Penon Audio and check out the Yuin OK1. It's a flathead earbud that comes with a pair of tips with a nozzle that goes into your ear canal. I always wondered who the target customer base was for them since that seems to ruin at least part of what's great about an earbud, the non-insertion fit. I guess they knew that there are people like you looking for hybrid!


WOW! Those look crazy. LOL


----------



## fooltoque

samandhi said:


> Also, you might consider a hybrid of sorts. Something like this, are actually a pretty good solution. While they aren't THE best in anything, they definitely don't sound like crap either. I used to own these (used them while at work because of their open nature), and they actually sound good. They have sound as if they were in-ear, but are completely open in nature, and you can hear everything around you.
> 
> They are really like an earbud with a tip that directs the sound into your ears.


I had a pair of those way back when! At the time they were the most I'd ever spent on a headphone and I loved them. Actually my first thread on head-fi was to ask if anyone knew of a modern version of these, since I think Bose discontinued them.


----------



## yaps66

fooltoque said:


> Does the concept of something like an open-back IEM exist?





samandhi said:


> As for open backed IEMs, there have actually been some in the past and present (Xioami Piston II, Raptgo Hook-X, etc..) however there is one major caveat to this. While they ARE open, they seal as if they weren't (to a point). This helps with staging and resonance, but the monitors themselves are so small that the drivers generally get in the way. So, take the Hook-X as an example. They don't seal quite as much as a closed IEM, but they still have that "plugged" feeling that you were alluding to.





samandhi said:


> As mentioned earlier, the Hook-X come closest for me (you CAN hear surroundings better, but not near enough to call them truly open).


To add to the list of open-backed iems I would add the recent IMR Zennith II.  These are a hybrid iem and the unique porting system allows you to alter staging and isolation by rotating a dial on the iem.

The first picture is the Zii with stock cable.
The second picture is with the port fully closed.
The third picture is with the port fully opened.

Agree with @samandhi that they still have that "plugged" feeling though, the opened port does help with staging.  It is quite unique!

From the picture, you can see the red dial which you screw clockwise to close and counter-clockwise to open.


----------



## samandhi

fooltoque said:


> I had a pair of those way back when! At the time they were the most I'd ever spent on a headphone and I loved them. Actually my first thread on head-fi was to ask if anyone knew of a modern version of these, since I think Bose discontinued them.


Yes they did, but you can still get them.


----------



## fooltoque

samandhi said:


> I also understand your dilemma. There is no real presence for the "Frankestein" that you are looking for. No place in buds, and no place in IEMs.
> 
> As for me, I like the idea that you are alluding to also. But alas, while there are some that are open, they don't really sound like it (enough). As mentioned earlier, the Hook-X come closest for me (you CAN hear surroundings better, but not near enough to call them truly open). BTW, this DOES make these IEMs very airy and have some of the biggest staging that I have heard in an IEM (short of my IT-07 that is).
> 
> If you want to discuss more about these as an open option, you can go here.



The Hook-X does sound interesting... My local store has hundreds of IEMs laying out to try, but they don't have those lol... 



JAnonymous5150 said:


> Go to Penon Audio and check out the Yuin OK1. It's a flathead earbud that comes with a pair of tips with a nozzle that goes into your ear canal. I always wondered who the target customer base was for them since that seems to ruin at least part of what's great about an earbud, the non-insertion fit. I guess they knew that there are people like you looking for hybrid!



Wow they really do look crazy. I'm not sure if that would fit the bill, but I really want to try it!


----------



## o0genesis0o

fooltoque said:


> Does the concept of something like an open-back IEM exist?


Yes. Audeze LCD-i4 and i3. They have absolutely zero isolation. Tonality is an absolute train wreck without EQ or their cipher cable (built in EQ).



shenshen said:


> In the end, they couldn't understand the point of earbuds, but that's fine, it's not for everyone.



I mean, let’s look at the earbuds objectively. They are portable gears, yet they are not isolating nor stable enough (at least for me) for portable usage. Some ear buds are so resistive that you need desktop amps, so they are more like desktop listening gears. But if they are desktop gear, people would say “just use full size planar headphones”. 

I personally found ear buds to be the most comfortable form of head-fi gear though. 




JAnonymous5150 said:


> Go to Penon Audio and check out the Yuin OK1. It's a flathead earbud that comes with a pair of tips with a nozzle that goes into your ear canal



Darn, I thought I am clever with that idea . The huge driver in ear buds might give great bass slam, if the tuner can tame the midbass correctly. I mean look at Fiio FH9 and their giant 13.6mm DD woofer. It sounds fantastic. Sony IER Z1r also has a giant DD woofer inside.


----------



## samandhi

yaps66 said:


> To add to the list of open-backed iems I would add the recent IMR Zennith II.  These are a hybrid iem and the unique porting system allows you to alter staging and isolation by rotating a dial on the iem.
> 
> The first picture is the Zii with stock cable.
> The second picture is with the port fully closed.
> ...


The stuff they don't think of. LOL Those are also crazy looking.


----------



## fooltoque

yaps66 said:


> To add to the list of open-backed iems I would add the recent IMR Zennith II.  These are a hybrid iem and the unique porting system allows you to alter staging and isolation by rotating a dial on the iem.
> 
> The first picture is the Zii with stock cable.
> The second picture is with the port fully closed.
> ...


Wow, those look really crazy too.  I want to try.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

yaps66 said:


> To add to the list of open-backed iems I would add the recent IMR Zennith II.  These are a hybrid iem and the unique porting system allows you to alter staging and isolation by rotating a dial on the iem.
> 
> The first picture is the Zii with stock cable.
> The second picture is with the port fully closed.
> ...



Woah! What a trip. I've never seen anything quite like these things. Mind if I ask how much this pair set you back?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

fooltoque said:


> Wow they really do look crazy. I'm not sure if that would fit the bill, but I really want to try it!



I mostly just included them as a kind of proof of concept. Just to show that there are other people and even manufacturers out there thinking up hybridizations of open and closed, buds and IEMs, etc. They do look interesting and I'd like to know how they sound, but I'm definitely not buying a pair to find out lol!


----------



## yaps66

samandhi said:


> The stuff they don't think of. LOL Those are also crazy looking.





fooltoque said:


> Wow, those look really crazy too.  I want to try.





JAnonymous5150 said:


> Woah! What a trip. I've never seen anything quite like these things. Mind if I ask how much this pair set you back?


Cheaper than you think! 216 Sterling including shipping from UK to Vietnam.

These are a limited run iem and they are sold out.  You can find used IMR iems though in on ebay and on their website.  Have to warn you though, there is a number of issues which you can see on the Head-Fi IMR thread mostly relating to delivery times so, buyer beware!


----------



## fooltoque

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I mostly just included them as a kind of proof of concept. Just to show that there are other people and even manufacturers out there thinking up hybridizations of open and closed, buds and IEMs, etc. They do look interesting and I'd like to know how they sound, but I'm definitely not buying a pair to find out lol!


It looks like you can use them as regular earbuds, then just plug in the tips and use them as in-ear IEMs when you want isolation. Interesting. I don't think I'll buy to try out either though


----------



## fooltoque

From your responses, It doesn't sound like I can really avoid the plugged feeling if I try to stick things inside my ear canal (although I really want to try those IMR Zennith II). I guess my best bet for now is to stick to flatheads, or maybe try to find an old Bose Triport on Ebay.


----------



## samandhi (Aug 18, 2022)

fooltoque said:


> From your responses, It doesn't sound like I can really avoid the plugged feeling if I try to stick things inside my ear canal (although I really want to try those IMR Zennith II). I guess my best bet for now is to stick to flatheads, or maybe try to find an old Bose Triport on Ebay.


You may look up the name Soundsport Wired (or IE2 or IE2W), rather than Triport as those are the newer models, and might be more readily available. Also, try doing a search on Amazon, you might not get "robbed" as badly if coming from an actual store rather than an individual. Just my opinion on the matter.


----------



## o0genesis0o

fooltoque said:


> I can really avoid the plugged feeling if I try to stick things inside my ear canal



The occlusion feeling of IEM do not exist with LCD-i4 series. They feel nothing because there is no seal.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> The occlusion feeling of IEM do not exist with LCD-i4 series. They feel nothing because there is no seal.


This is true, and I totally forgot about those, but really you HAVE to have the Cipher cable for them to sound worth much IMHO. Good call on those BTW!


----------



## fooltoque

o0genesis0o said:


> The occlusion feeling of IEM do not exist with LCD-i4 series. They feel nothing because there is no seal.



Hmmm... Maybe that is exactly what I'm looking for then. I wonder if I can find a place to try before buy. The i3s are at least under $1000, but still way too much for a blind purchase for me.


----------



## samandhi

fooltoque said:


> Hmmm... Maybe that is exactly what I'm looking for then. I wonder if I can find a place to try before buy. The i3s are at least under $1000, but still way too much for a blind purchase for me.


If you can get them from Amazon from where you are at, you could just return them if you didn't like them.


----------



## samandhi

How about these? https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/110-I...rds=izone+i3&sprefix=isine+i3,aps,120&sr=8-12


----------



## fooltoque (Aug 18, 2022)

samandhi said:


> How about these? https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/110-IE-1030-01/dp/B07WF9QPTH/ref=sr_1_12?crid=3OZUNXZYT8MPV&keywords=izone+i3&sprefix=isine+i3,aps,120&sr=8-12


Yes.. I could buy them there... (ughhhh that price, I'm dying....) Japan is really bad about returns though. If you open the package for this kind of thing it is basically no-returns unless they are broken.

There is a fantastic local store (e-earphone.jp) that has literally hundreds of earphones that you can go try out. I spend hours there on a regular basis. But they don't have these..... (why???).


----------



## samandhi (Aug 18, 2022)

fooltoque said:


> Yes.. I could buy them there... (ughhhh that price, I'm dying....) Japan is really bad about returns though. If you open the package for this kind of thing it is basically no-returns unless they are broken.


Well, I DID notice there was another seller that you could get them for $1134, but not being able to return just sucks (if you ask me). lol

I'm not sure if you are aware, but they DO have cheaper options available. Like the ISINE10. I am not sure of the sound, but just putting it out there as another option for you. I believe they also have a couple other options in between those higher end ones, ranging in price.

Edit: Which it looks like that one I linked to from Amazon > Adorama comes with the Cipher cable.


----------



## fooltoque

samandhi said:


> Well, I DID notice there was another seller that you could get them for $1134, but not being able to return just sucks (if you ask me). lol


It really does!


samandhi said:


> I'm not sure if you are aware, but they DO have cheaper options available. Like the ISINE10. I am not sure of the sound, but just putting it out there as another option for you. I believe they also have a couple other options in between those higher end ones, ranging in price.
> 
> Edit: Which it looks like that one I linked to from Amazon > Adorama comes with the Cipher cable.


I bet there is some sort of headphone convention or something I'd be able to try them at. Tokyo likes conventions.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

fooltoque said:


> It looks like you can use them as regular earbuds, then just plug in the tips and use them as in-ear IEMs when you want isolation. Interesting. I don't think I'll buy to try out either though



Yup, if both ways sound good it would be very versatile and useful for folks lookin' for something like that, but I'm skeptical and the only review I can find of them doesn't mention which way they're being used by the owner/reviewer or how the sound changes when worn one way versus they other. That price is a bit steep for a blind buy for a product I don't need/want, but am curious about lol!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

fooltoque said:


> It really does!
> 
> I bet there is some sort of headphone convention or something I'd be able to try them at. Tokyo likes conventions.



I used to own the isine20 and, while I know people that like them, I mostly found them to be very source and fit dependent and even once you got that right they really only sounded good on a couple genres. They were just too much trouble in the end so I sold mine. Just FYI.


----------



## gordonli

fooltoque said:


> Does the concept of something like an open-back IEM exist? I like the idea of an in-ear tip to get the sound predictably close to the eardrum. It really enables so many great strategies like multiple hybrid drivers. But there is that plugged feeling you get with isolation.
> 
> I know that some IEMs come with some venting for pressure equalization and that does help, for example I've tried the Moondrop S8 which has no venting at all, and had to take it out of my ears after about 10 seconds. But I have never seen an IEM that actively tries to be 'open'.
> [/SPOILER]


I must be missing something. Im almost sure youve already tried this, but. 
Why cant you roll a tip which doesnt fully seal for you, like one size smaller? Close to eardrum, check. No plugged in feel, check. 
No bass, check...  but this would be the cheapest way about it, and you can add some EQ even if thats not optimal.


----------



## fooltoque

gordonli said:


> I must be missing something. Im almost sure youve already tried this, but.
> Why cant you roll a tip which doesnt fully seal for you, like one size smaller? Close to eardrum, check. No plugged in feel, check.
> No bass, check...  but this would be the cheapest way about it, and you can add some EQ even if thats not optimal.


I think this is a great suggestion, that I actually had not considered  The downside being the one you mentioned, that the sound profile for IEMs is dependent on having a seal. I think we can all agree that if it doesn't sound good then what is the point? But it makes me wonder if there are any IEMs that you could EQ to work well in this type of situation. 

My personal problem is that I always use the smallest tips I can find. S or SS size are the only ones that fit in my ear. Maybe this has something to do with my sensitivity to IEMs


----------



## baskingshark

dududs said:


> I need some help. I'm using kbear stellar for 2 years now and i really like the sound signature but i want a upgrade that has detachable cable, right now im thinking of buying either the TRN EMA or the RY4S mmcx, do you have some recommendations in the same price range?



I do think if you can top up a bit more, the smabat M2S pro can be an upgrade technically. Plus u can add different drivers inside to change the sound signature.

Though my smabat M2S pro has been stolen by my kid zzzzz.


For something non detachable that is an upgrade over the stellar, consider the NiceHCK EB2S.




syazwaned said:


> Not my luck I guess 😅. Question, can I used Questyle M15 as a dac, and Mt602 as an amp? or I need a desktop dac?


The M15 already has an amp inside (and it is quite powerful for a dongle). So adding another amp downstream is double amping which may cause issues.

The M15 on high gain and on 4.4 mm output can actually power some 300 to 600 ohm gear, so you don't actually need another amp downstream.




fooltoque said:


> Does the concept of something like an open-back IEM exist? I like the idea of an in-ear tip to get the sound predictably close to the eardrum. It really enables so many great strategies like multiple hybrid drivers. But there is that plugged feeling you get with isolation.
> 
> I know that some IEMs come with some venting for pressure equalization and that does help, for example I've tried the Moondrop S8 which has no venting at all, and had to take it out of my ears after about 10 seconds. But I have never seen an IEM that actively tries to be 'open'.
> 
> ...



Yes there are open backed iems eg Final audio E3000, TFZ Tequila.

The open backed design is a double edged sword though - you open the soundstage but isolation suffers.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

baskingshark said:


> I do think if you can top up a bit more, the smabat M2S pro can be an upgrade technically. Plus u can add different drivers inside to change the sound signature.
> 
> Though my smabat M2S pro has been stolen by my kid zzzzz.
> 
> ...



When I opened the grille on the back of my e3000s they actually have a pretty thick membrane made of some white plastic/vinyl material so I'd maybe think of them as semi open instead of truly open, but good call. Somehow I had totally forgotten about the e3000s.


----------



## fooltoque

baskingshark said:


> Yes there are open backed iems eg Final audio E3000, TFZ Tequila.
> 
> The open backed design is a double edged sword though - you open the soundstage but isolation suffers.


Hmm... I can try both of these in my local store. Ironically I own the Final ZE3000 wireless (not open). I didn't realize that they had an open wired cousin.


----------



## baskingshark (Aug 19, 2022)

fooltoque said:


> Hmm... I can try both of these in my local store. Ironically I own the Final ZE3000 wireless (not open). I didn't realize that they had an open wired cousin.



The TFZ Tequila is a basshead warm analoguish set. Big soundstage but nebulous imaging and not the best technically.

Final E3000 is a warm and dark bassy set, thick note weight and smooth and non fatiguing. Great lush mids with superb imaging and layering and big soundstage. However it needs amplification (low sensitivity) and the cable is non detachable, thin and microphonic.
Isolation and bass texturing is poor though.



Anyway if you want an open sound maybe you should consider some earbuds (since you are on this thread too!). The earbuds really give superior soundstage to most IEMs, and they are relatively cheaper too. Think of earbuds as mini open backed headphones.

I used to look down on earbuds but have not looked back since I tried my first pair, they are complementary to IEMs.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 19, 2022)

fooltoque said:


> Hmm... I can try both of these in my local store. Ironically I own the Final ZE3000 wireless (not open). I didn't realize that they had an open wired cousin.



My e3000s broke, but I actually liked them quite a bit and will possibly replace them at some point. They have a very laid back presentation and what I would call something like a dark-neutral sound signature. The boost to the low end is fairly mild and the treble is a bit subdued, but that smooth warmer/darkish sound sig coupled with their very small size made them pretty great for casual listening in bed and the like. I hadn't rediscovered earbuds when I owned them so now I use a pair of buds in this situation.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

baskingshark said:


> The TFZ Tequila is a basshead warm analoguish set. Big soundstage but nebulous imaging and not the best technically.
> 
> Final E3000 is a warm and dark bassy set, thick note weight and smooth and non fatiguing. Great lush mids with superb imaging and layering and big soundstage. However it needs amplification (low sensitivity) and the cable is non detachable, thin and microphonic.
> Isolation and bass texturing is poor though.
> ...



I love how you and I made nearly simultaneous posts that said damn near the same thing about the e3000s and then advocated earbuds. I guess great minds really do think alike lol!


----------



## fooltoque (Aug 19, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> Anyway if you want an open sound maybe you should consider some earbuds (since you are on this thread too!). The earbuds really give superior soundstage to most IEMs, and they are relatively cheaper too. Think of earbuds as mini open backed headphones.
> 
> I used to look down on earbuds but have not looked back since I tried my first pair, they are complementary to IEMs.


Thanks to this thread I went out and got a used pair of FiiO EM5s. I love them! I actually consider them to be close to endgame for me, but there are times when I put in my Blessing 2s and just bliss out on the clean details for the 20 minutes that I can stand to keep them in my ears. So to kinda reach for the stars I am wanting to mash the two of them together.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

fooltoque said:


> Thanks to this thread I went out and got a used pair of FiiO EM5s. I love them! I actually consider them to be close to endgame for me, but there are times when I put in my Blessing 2s and just bliss out on the clean details for the 20 minutes that I can stand to keep them in my ears. So to kinda reach for the stars I am wanting to mash the two of them together.



I know you're not asking for another earbud recommendation, but for clean detail along the lines of the B2s (which I used to own as well lol) I would say take a look at the Yincrow RW-3000. I just got them last week and they are very detailed with a tuning that is actually quite reminiscent of the B2s, but a larger soundstage and a bit more natural timbre and note weight. If you like the B2s, I would think the RW-3000s would be right up your alley. They are much closer to the B2s when it comes tuning, timbre, and presentation than the EM5s, IMO. Though the EM5s are a fine earbud in their own right as I'm sure you can attest.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> When I opened the grille on the back of my e3000s they actually have a pretty thick membrane made of some white plastic/vinyl material so I'd maybe think of them as semi open instead of truly open, but good call. Somehow I had totally forgotten about the e3000s.



You can remove the thick membrane as well to increase soundstage and resolution. Midbass becomes quite a bit too much, though. Still looking for a way to unseal the front vents to drop the midbass a bit. Best choice for bassy smooth sound for sure


----------



## fooltoque

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I know you're not asking for another earbud recommendation,


I'll take it! I actually haven't gotten a chance to listen to a whole lot of earbuds, so it could easily be that I just need to find that one earbud that hits all the boxes for me. I really appreciate the recommendation from someone who has been able to compare.


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 19, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> If you guys were me and you were being offered a free gift from a store in the form of the Ks LBBS, the Yincrow RW-1000, or the BGVP DX6 which one would you choose and why?
> 
> Edit: i should mention that the RW-1000 is the bass version.


RW-1000 bass. If you haven't already. LBBs if you prefer smaller fit.

IIRC the dx5 kinda went nowhere due to severe roll off of the bottom end, not sure on the dx6.


JAnonymous5150 said:


> Simphonio Dragon 3 first impressions:
> 
> When I first looked at the pictures of the Dragon 3 on the webpage offering them for sale I couldn't help but think: "$400+ for some earbuds with a fixed cable and a plastic PK shell seems a bit steep for me. These better be something special." The ONLY reason I went through with purchasing these is because one of the people who was recommending them and telling me how impressive they are is a friend, audio enthusiast, and musician whose opinions on audio matters I respect and value highly.
> 
> ...


Man. I guess the D3's will go on the wishlist for a TOTL PK shell bud.


Ronion said:


> You'd have to tear it apart like @FranQL did.  He's a madman LOL.  Some may say an outlaw.
> 
> I noticed that the bass on my FiiO keeps getting better--stronger, deeper, and clearer.  So I decided to measure and test my sanity.
> The measurements do support that.
> ...


Not sure if your aware of this but you can rename your measurements in REW and select 'legend' when doing a screenshot to show what each measurement is.

It's often hard to parse what line is what without it.



silverszi said:


> 150 ohm is my only issue


The sensitivity of many earbuds is high enough that they are easy to drive from portable sources.


Ronion said:


> Runs great on a dongle.  Not sure what else you could want.


And possibly other devices like LG series phones.

Maybe someone with a phone that has a 3.5mm jack has one of these drivers and can provide feedback on how it performs?


silverszi said:


> I assume a 3.5mm jack can't draw more power than it outputs by default


Yep.


silverszi said:


> Thanks
> Id kinda still rather use a 32ohm driver however because my pc doesn't have usb c so I wouldn't be able to use the same dongle with it.


Get a USB A to USB C adapter and leave it plugged into your PC?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 19, 2022)

fooltoque said:


> Does the concept of something like an open-back IEM exist? I like the idea of an in-ear tip to get the sound predictably close to the eardrum. It really enables so many great strategies like multiple hybrid drivers. But there is that plugged feeling you get with isolation.
> 
> I know that some IEMs come with some venting for pressure equalization and that does help, for example I've tried the Moondrop S8 which has no venting at all, and had to take it out of my ears after about 10 seconds. But I have never seen an IEM that actively tries to be 'open'.
> 
> ...


Love the the Monster EM5 pic you shared! Great sounding buds!

Regarding open-back IEMs... there was the *JVC HA-FX Wood Series* *aka The "Woody" Series* hence my call sign/handle/username. Now many of us had argued if they were indeed truly open-back IEMs or rather semi-open IEMs with poor isolation... or better yet simply semi-closed IEMs with a large vent/port out the back! We never could get in agreement on that one. But they were a very open sounding IEMs nonetheless with rather poor isolation which was a good indicator that they were "open" to some degree. The JVC Woody Series had a number of models available: first came the HA-FX500, HA-FX700, HA-FX800, HA-FX1000 and then the later HA-FX650, HA-FX750, HA-FX850, HA-FX1100/1200. I owned and/or auditioned all before finally settling on the HA-FX750 with Comply T/Ts-400 tips for best fit and sound for my small ears and listening tastes. These IEMs are still available NOS/NIB if you hunt around for them. I would avoid the earlier models and most definitely the HA-FX650... so focus on maybe trying the HA-FX750/850/1100/1200. They were timbre monsters and hands down one of the most airy IEMs I ever owned or heard.

Another earbud consideration would be to seek a bell-shape shelled earbud model as I have found a lot of die-hard IEM lovers preferred the bell's narrower diameter and potentially and ever-so-slightly deeper insertion more favorable and akin to what they are used to.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

assassin10000 said:


> RW-1000 bass. If you haven't already. LBBs if you prefer smaller fit.



I already chose, but luckily enough I went with the RW-1000 Bass anyways. Thanks for the suggestion though! Poor me, I ended up having to research and read reviews on my own because you're the only person who answered lol! I'm glad I managed to make a good decision. Thanks again for the affirmation.


----------



## fooltoque

WoodyLuvr said:


> Love the the Monster EM5 pic you shared! Great sounding buds!


thanks 


WoodyLuvr said:


> Regarding open-back IEMs... there was the *JVC HA-FX Wood Series* *aka "Woody" Series* hence my call sign/handle/username. Now many of us argued if they were indeed truly open-back IEMs or rather semi-open IEMs with poor isolation... or better yet simply semi-closed IEMs! We never could get in agreement on that one. But it was a very open sounding IEM nonetheless with rather poor isolation which was a good indicator that it was open to some degree. The JVC Woody Series had a number of models available: first came the HA-FX500, HA-FX700, HA-FX800, HA-FX1000 and then the later HA-FX650, HA-FX750, HA-FX850, HA-FX1100/1200. I owned and/or auditioned all before finally settling on the HA-FX750 with Comply T/Ts-400 tips for best fit and sound for my small ears and listening tastes. These IEMs are still available NOS/NIB if you hunt around for them. I would avoid the earlier models and most definitely the HA-FX650... so focus on maybe trying the HA-FX750/850/1100/1200.


This looks like a good possibility. I can get a used HA-FX1100 in my local store for around $100. 


WoodyLuvr said:


> Another earbud consideration would be to seek a bell-shape shelled earbud model as I have found a lot of die-hard IEM lovers preferred the bell's narrower diameter and potentially and ever-so-slightly deeper insertion more favorable and akin to what they are used to.


I'm interested in this. Can you give an example?


----------



## assassin10000

fooltoque said:


> I'm interested in this. Can you give an example?


He's referring to the K's bell series of earbuds.


----------



## assassin10000

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I already chose, but luckily enough I went with the RW-1000 Bass anyways. Thanks for the suggestion though! Poor me, I ended up having to research and read reviews on my own because you're the only person who answered lol! I'm glad I managed to make a good decision. Thanks again for the affirmation.


No problem.

I would have responded sooner but somehow I wasn't getting alerts for this thread.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 19, 2022)

fooltoque said:


> thanks
> ​This looks like a good possibility. I can get a used HA-FX1100 in my local store for around $100.
> 
> I'm interested in this. Can you give an example?





assassin10000 said:


> He's referring to the K's bell series of earbuds.


What he said  

Ksearphone "Bell" lines are the most IEM-like in size and fit... though I am hesitant to recommend them anymore due to serious QA/QC, poor customer service, and suspected shady business practices. If I was pushed hard to recommend a Ks model it would have to be the Bell-Blue since I have not heard of any QA/QC issues with this model and it sounds great... sometimes wished I had bought this instead of the Bell-Ti!

2020 - Ksearphone Temperament 蓝精铃 Bell-Blue; 32/33Ω (aka "Bell Smurf")
There are a number of other brands that have/had bell and funnel-like shaped shells though:

Moondrop (Chaconne, Liebesleid)
FAAEAL (Z-Sound)
Ollivan (MS16)
HZsound (Bell Rhyme)
TY Hi-Z (F32MT, F300M)
Sennheiser (MX980 / OMX980 / MX985 which were the original bells if you can find one)
Baldoor EarBell E100 MK1; 32Ω (aka Mrice E100)
Or perhaps even a DOCOMO inspired shell model which has a pseudo-bell shape to it and will fit quite similarly.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

assassin10000 said:


> No problem.
> 
> I would have responded sooner but somehow I wasn't getting alerts for this thread.



It's funny you mention that, but the alerts to this thread have been sketchy for me for the last day or so. Sometimes I get them and sometimes I don't.


----------



## fooltoque

WoodyLuvr said:


> What he said
> 
> Ksearphone "Bell" lines are the most IEM-like in size and fit... though I am hesitant to recommend them anymore due to serious QA/QC, poor customer service, and suspected shady business practices. If I was pushed hard to recommend a Ks model it would have to be the Bell-Blue since I have not heard of any QA/QC issues with this model and it sounds great... sometimes wished I had bought this instead of the Bell-Ti!
> 
> 2020 - Ksearphone Temperament 蓝精铃 Bell-Blue; 32/33Ω (aka "Bell Smurf")


Those are pretty cute. AliExpress has them for ~$350 or so, is that a competitive price? I hope I can check them out someday.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Any thoughts on the Ourart Ti7? I have been intrigued by the look of these buds for a while now. Anyone want to give me a rundown of perormance and tuning likes and dislikes? I'd appreciate any input on them.


----------



## shenshen

o0genesis0o said:


> Yes. Audeze LCD-i4 and i3. They have absolutely zero isolation. Tonality is an absolute train wreck without EQ or their cipher cable (built in EQ).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah honestly, in the end, I told them the biggest draw was that I could wear earbuds all day with no issues with comfort or fatigue.


----------



## assassin10000

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Any thoughts on the Ourart Ti7? I have been intrigued by the look of these buds for a while now. Anyone want to give me a rundown of perormance and tuning likes and dislikes? I'd appreciate any input on them.



Given your like for brighter buds, go with the ACG instead.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

assassin10000 said:


> Given your like for brighter buds, go with the ACG instead.



You wouldn't happen to know anywhere that's selling the ACGs at the moment would you? Penon is out of stock and not sure when/if they will get more according to emails with them a few weeks back. Ideally I'd like to purchase and try both.

I assume you've heard both. Any more specific comments on the differences between the Ti7 and the ACG that you'd be down to share?


----------



## syazwaned

fooltoque said:


> I understand what you are saying, and it may be rude of me to bend the topic, but the conversation just never seems to connect with people who like IEMs.
> 
> Me: I'd like an IEM, but open
> IEM thread: But then you wouldn't get good isolation
> ...



E3000. Very admirable bass response due to open backed design. @o0genesis0o told me open up it back mesh mod will makes it sounds better, but I could not find any opening I could can my twizzle around.



JAnonymous5150 said:


> I am not familiar with the Questyle M15 so I would ask others. Whether or not a combo with an integrated amp can be plugged into another amplifier can vary from device to device.





samandhi said:


> It doesn't appear that the Questyle M15 has a LO (though I could be wrong here), so while you CAN hook it up this way, you will most likely be double amping the signal.





samandhi said:


> Also, if you DO decide to hook it up this way be careful of the connections between the two. If your Mt602 has a balanced input then you could use either the SE or the balanced out of the M15, but if the Mt602 has SE input, you can ONLY use SE from the M15. Otherwise, you would be shorting grounds.
> 
> Hope that makes sense to you?!






samandhi said:


> In order to bypass the amp section of the DAC you will be looking for either a line out, or coax/optical out. You will also need one of these connections on the input side of the amp. Though you CAN use RCA input on the amp for the coax and LO as long as the cable is wired correctly. The tricky part on the amp side is the line-in. It can be either SE or balanced, and can be 3.5mm, 2.5mm, or 4.4mm, or even XLR..
> 
> Hope I am not confusing the issue further?! If it is too much to think about, and you really want a tube amp, I would suggest either getting a DAP that has nutube built in, or a DAC/amp combo that you can just plug in a source and be done.



Thanks, better to get dedicated dac then.



baskingshark said:


> The M15 already has an amp inside (and it is quite powerful for a dongle). So adding another amp downstream is double amping which may cause issues.
> 
> The M15 on high gain and on 4.4 mm output can actually power some 300 to 600 ohm gear, so you don't actually need another amp downstream.



Thanks @baskingshark. Just wondering, if I get a dac amp like a JDS stack or mt 602 or schiit modius, it is going to sounds siginificantly better than Questyle m15? Want to know your experience. I previously loaned a Zen Dac v1, I found my dongle; Apogee Groove and M15 sound better than the Zen Dac.


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 19, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> You wouldn't happen to know anywhere that's selling the ACGs at the moment would you? Penon is out of stock and not sure when/if they will get more according to emails with them a few weeks back. Ideally I'd like to purchase and try both.
> 
> I assume you've heard both. Any more specific comments on the differences between the Ti7 and the ACG that you'd be down to share?


I've owned/heard both at different times.

The TI7 is a good bud with very nice mids. Given the difficult fit for some bass can be extremely rolled off. Has some warmth tho. Good stage but sometimes lacking treble/air. Rolled off treble.

ACG suffers from same lack of sub-bass. For the same reason. Absolutely great mids. Ridiculous soundstage, a knocking sound from one track made me jump a bit thinking someone was at my door, until they started speaking/music started playing. It has the treble and air the TI7 lacks for some (ie: @WoodyLuvr would possibly prefer the TI7).


----------



## JAnonymous5150

assassin10000 said:


> I've owned/heard both at different times.
> 
> The TI7 is a good bud with very nice mids. Given the difficult fit for some bass can be extremely rolled off. Has some warmth tho. Good stage but sometimes lacking treble/air. Rolled off treble.
> 
> ACG suffers from same lack of sub-bass. For the same reason. Absolutely great mids. Ridiculous soundstage, a knocking sound from one track made me jump a bit thinking someone was at my door, until they started speaking/music started playing. It has the treble and air the TI7 lacks for some (ie: @WoodyLuvr would possibly prefer the TI7).



Nice! Thanks for the breakdown. It looks like my next mission is going to be to track down a pair of ACGs. You wouldn't happen to know anyone selling a pair of them would you? lol

BTW, I have noticed that @WoodyLovr has a particular aversion to the brighter buds. He definitely hates the Toneking Viridis 😜

It's all good though, that just means there's more for the rest of us!


----------



## assassin10000

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Nice! Thanks for the breakdown. It looks like my next mission is going to be to track down a pair of ACGs. You wouldn't happen to know anyone selling a pair of them would you? lol
> 
> BTW, I have noticed that @WoodyLovr has a particular aversion to the brighter buds. He definitely hates the Toneking Viridis 😜
> 
> It's all good though, that just means there's more for the rest of us!


Nope. 

I kinda regret selling both my pairs, despite not being able to listen to them for long sessions.

I currently mostly enjoy my diy buds.


----------



## assassin10000

I'm gonna share this here too, since many here may not follow the diy earbuds thread.

After I got my earbud measuring rig fairly consistent, I took some measurements of full, donut and my own offset donut foams.






Full appear the brightest, Donut the bassiest and offset straddles the middle nicely.

Funnily enough this seems to be an instance where measurements don't always equate to what we hear. As pretty much everything I've read/seen (and my own subjective experience) points to Donut foams being 'brighter/more detailed'...



My mod is a variation of @seanc6441's mod, another member here that hasn't been around for a while. I remember him mentioning having to take a long break due to tinnitus a long time ago.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 19, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Nice! Thanks for the breakdown. It looks like my next mission is going to be to track down a pair of ACGs. You wouldn't happen to know anyone selling a pair of them would you? lol
> 
> BTW, I have noticed that @WoodyLovr has a particular aversion to the brighter buds. He definitely hates the Toneking Viridis 😜
> 
> It's all good though, that just means there's more for the rest of us!


I don't hate the Green Mambas just too fatiguing and sibilant for my tastes and hearing. Unfortunately, due to career incurred hearing damage I am incredibly sensitive to hard & harsh upper mids and sibilant and bright lower highs (though sadly I do love me some sparkle and air). I also listen for very long sessions, albeit at low volume (well under 65dB most of the time), sometimes for eight up to twelve hours at a time.

I do recommend the *Toneking (MrZ - MusicMaker) Dendroaspis Viridis* for soundstage as they are without a doubt the king in that regard !


----------



## JAnonymous5150

assassin10000 said:


> Funnily enough this seems to be an instance where measurements don't always equate to what we hear. As pretty much everything I've read/seen (and my own subjective experience) points to Donut foams being 'brighter/more detailed'...
> 
> 
> 
> My mod is a variation of @seanc6441's mod, another member here that hasn't been around for a while. I remember him mentioning having to take a long break due to tinnitus a long time ago.



Interesting. With the Fiio FF3s, for example, I don't necessarily think the donuts make them noticably brighter, but more articulate with more perceived detail. However, with my Toneking Viridis using donuts certainly seems to make them sound brighter by a good bit.

Have you replicated this result with other buds? It'd be interesting to see if your rig measures the relation between donuts, full foams, and offset foams consistently between multiple models. 

I will also admit that with some buds there is very little in the way of discernable difference between full foams and donuts. I haven't paid much attention to see if there's some common thread or characterstic(s) between buds that show notable differences between foam types and those that don't. You wouldn't happen to be looking to do a thesis level research study to answer all the questions that are now occuring to me would you?

Haha! Thanks for the cool info/share. That's very interesting indeed.


----------



## assassin10000

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Interesting. With the Fiio FF3s, for example, I don't necessarily think the donuts make them noticably brighter, but more articulate with more perceived detail. However, with my Toneking Viridis using donuts certainly seems to make them sound brighter by a good bit.
> 
> Have you replicated this result with other buds? It'd be interesting to see if your rig measures the relation between donuts, full foams, and offset foams consistently between multiple models.



Hmmm. I may have to do a follow up one day.



JAnonymous5150 said:


> I will also admit that with some buds there is very little in the way of discernable difference between full foams and donuts. I haven't paid much attention to see if there's some common thread or characterstic(s) between buds that show notable differences between foam types and those that don't. You wouldn't happen to be looking to do a thesis level research study to answer all the questions that are now occuring to me would you?


Nope. Too much work for no return. Maybe if I was taking college courses with a degree for an audio related field or something.

But I just like to tinker and make/do things I like.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

WoodyLuvr said:


> I don't hate the Green Mambas just too fatiguing and sibilant for my tastes and hearing. Unfortunately, due to career incurred hearing damage I am incredibly sensitive to hard & harsh upper mids and sibilant and bright lower highs (though sadly I do love me some sparkle and air). I also listen for very long sessions, albeit at low volume (well under 65dB most of the time), sometimes for eight up to twelve hours at a time.
> 
> I do recommend the *Toneking (MrZ - MusicMaker) Dendroaspis Viridis* for soundstage as they are without a doubt the king in that regard !



I was just poking fun at you! You'll have to forgive me.

I was actually nearly deaf in my left ear after it got mangled in an explosion if Afghanistan. Only a donated 3 surgery proceedure rescued my hearing in that ear and now I hear better in it than I do in my right ear, though both are above average for my age according to my doctor who checks me every 6 months. Point being, I understand how bad hearing damage and loss can suck. The 1.5 years I dealt with that were amongst the darkest times in my life.

Thank goodness or whatever god/gods you'd prefer that you and I still have hearing good enough to allow us to enjoy those extended 8+ hour sessions! Part of the reason I know how much music means to my life and happiness is because I know how much it compromised my happiness to not be able to enjoy it anymore especially as I was still around it all the time making my living as a session drummer. It sounds like you're doing everything right to preserve your hearing for as long as you can. I commend your restraint and intelligence.

Here's to good hearing, good health, good music, and good decisions! Cheers!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

assassin10000 said:


> Nope. Too much work for no return. Maybe if I was taking college courses with a degree for an audio related field or something.



No return?!?! I tip well! And if you give me and my scanner a couple hours I'll bet I can make you a sick looking diploma. I can use mine from UC Berkeley as a template and then you'll have a diploma from a top notch university in the audio related subject of your choice.

After you submit your thesis and research to the panel for peer review of course. Should I send you my...I mean the commitee's email address?


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Thank goodness or whatever god/gods you'd prefer that you and I still have hearing good enough to allow us to enjoy those extended 8+ hour sessions!



I can relate to this. My right ear suddenly developed a ringing sound (or I suddenly realised it) and I tried to use some ear cleaning sprays and drops and made it worse somehow. It was nearly blocked one day (it feels like my head is stuck under water all the time). Luckily it fixed itself. An audiologist told me that my ears are completely functional, normal, and freakishly clean   

That’s why I bought FF3 and got stuck in this thread. Can’t imagine not being able to hear anymore.


----------



## ttorbic

assassin10000 said:


> No problem.
> 
> I would have responded sooner but somehow I wasn't getting alerts for this thread.





JAnonymous5150 said:


> It's funny you mention that, but the alerts to this thread have been sketchy for me for the last day or so. Sometimes I get them and sometimes I don't.


yeah i think that's a general bug on head-fi. I've experienced it on other threads too. I have to click unwatch-watch every once in a while to get notifications again.


----------



## baskingshark

syazwaned said:


> Thanks @baskingshark. Just wondering, if I get a dac amp like a JDS stack or mt 602 or schiit modius, it is going to sounds siginificantly better than Questyle m15? Want to know your experience. I previously loaned a Zen Dac v1, I found my dongle; Apogee Groove and M15 sound better than the Zen Dac.



I do think the M15 can hit near the sound quality of the JDS stack. Perhaps it does not have as much driving power as some dedicated desktop stacks, and the M15 doesn't have a dedicated volume controller, but otherwise with 4.4 mm, high gain option, it can drive my Sennheiser HD650 (300 ohm) and some other 300+ ohm earbuds with ease.

I haven't tried the MT602 or tube amps so can't comment on that part. But M15 sounds better than Zen Dac yes I agree on that.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

WoodyLuvr said:


> What he said
> 
> Ksearphone "Bell" lines are the most IEM-like in size and fit... though I am hesitant to recommend them anymore due to serious QA/QC, poor customer service, and suspected shady business practices. If I was pushed hard to recommend a Ks model it would have to be the Bell-Blue since I have not heard of any QA/QC issues with this model and it sounds great... sometimes wished I had bought this instead of the Bell-Ti!
> 
> 2020 - Ksearphone Temperament 蓝精铃 Bell-Blue; 32/33Ω (aka "Bell Smurf")





fooltoque said:


> Those are pretty cute. AliExpress has them for ~$350 or so, is that a competitive price? I hope I can check them out someday.


Yes, that is about right. Sometimes they are on sale for $299 but $350 is what my buddy paid for his two years ago.

*@RikudouGoku *kindly reminded me of two other open-back IEMs you should consider:  Sony MDR-EX800ST and Dunu falcon Pro.


----------



## fooltoque

WoodyLuvr said:


> Sony MDR-EX800ST


Those are pretty funky looking. I should be able to try those out at the local store too, thanks! <jots down on growing list>


----------



## jeejack

silverszi said:


> and someone should do measurements so I know whose house to break into


Is the same house 😉


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Nice! Thanks for the breakdown. It looks like my next mission is going to be to track down a pair of ACGs. You wouldn't happen to know anyone selling a pair of them would you? lol
> 
> BTW, I have noticed that @WoodyLovr has a particular aversion to the brighter buds. He definitely hates the Toneking Viridis 😜
> 
> It's all good though, that just means there's more for the rest of us!





JAnonymous5150 said:


> I was just poking fun at you! You'll have to forgive me.
> 
> I was actually nearly deaf in my left ear after it got mangled in an explosion if Afghanistan. Only a donated 3 surgery proceedure rescued my hearing in that ear and now I hear better in it than I do in my right ear, though both are above average for my age according to my doctor who checks me every 6 months. Point being, I understand how bad hearing damage and loss can suck. The 1.5 years I dealt with that were amongst the darkest times in my life.
> 
> ...





WoodyLuvr said:


> I don't hate the Green Mambas just too fatiguing and sibilant for my tastes and hearing. Unfortunately, due to career incurred hearing damage I am incredibly sensitive to hard & harsh upper mids and sibilant and bright lower highs (though sadly I do love me some sparkle and air). I also listen for very long sessions, albeit at low volume (well under 65dB most of the time), sometimes for eight up to twelve hours at a time.
> 
> I do recommend the *Toneking (MrZ - MusicMaker) Dendroaspis Viridis* for soundstage as they are without a doubt the king in that regard !


This  so much. Though, I seem to be just a bit less sensitive than @ WoodyLuvr because I have some that are super boosted in that region (Maria II, Alpha 1, etc...) that I still listen to frequently. I just have to listen to them at a much lower volume all the time.



My hearing damage comes from over 150 concerts (everything from metal to country and everything in between). Nowadays I no longer attend concerts (unless it is a very small one at a beer tent at a motorcycle rally or something like that, i.e. Candlebox, Jackyl, Tesla, etc...). My hearing starts to diminish at 10K, and is totally gone after 12K, so most times I don't get to hear the airy nature of some head gear that uses 16K(ish) for that purpose. I also generally never crank above about 80dB (though there ARE those times that the volume knob resists the counter clockwise turn, and toe tapping is a must ).





Spoiler: A Bit Off Topic Ahead



Just in case anyone was wondering about the smaller concerts I might attend, here is why (my OTHER hobby)


----------



## dududs

Anyone here tested this new openheart nightingale?



aliexpress.com/item/1005004370142576.html


----------



## syazwaned

baskingshark said:


> I do think the M15 can hit near the sound quality of the JDS stack. Perhaps it does not have as much driving power as some dedicated desktop stacks, and the M15 doesn't have a dedicated volume controller, but otherwise with 4.4 mm, high gain option, it can drive my Sennheiser HD650 (300 ohm) and some other 300+ ohm earbuds with ease.
> 
> I haven't tried the MT602 or tube amps so can't comment on that part. But M15 sounds better than Zen Dac yes I agree on that.


thanks you! Can't wait to try M15 with yinman 600 ohms 😍😍😍


----------



## samandhi

syazwaned said:


> thanks you! Can't wait to try M15 with yinman 600 ohms 😍😍😍


Oh BOY!


----------



## syazwaned

samandhi said:


> This  so much. Though, I seem to be just a bit less sensitive than @ WoodyLuvr because I have some that are super boosted in that region (Maria II, Alpha 1, etc...) that I still listen to frequently. I just have to listen to them at a much lower volume all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




damn, nice bike bro. Do you tours a lot?


----------



## samandhi

syazwaned said:


> damn, nice bike bro. Do you tours a lot?


Thank you! Me and the Mrs. try and go as often as life will allow...  But if not, I ride (at least through town) almost every day (that I can).


----------



## JAnonymous5150

dududs said:


> Anyone here tested this new openheart nightingale?
> 
> aliexpress.com/item/1005004370142576.html



Nope, but I am waiting for them to show up from AE as we speak. Probably won't be here for at least a week or two, though. After having good luck with the metal shelled openheart buds and their over ears before that, these seemed like a must try when I went back to place an AE order for a couple things I forgot in my last order. Did you order them already too?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Thank you! Me and the Mrs. try and go as often as life will allow...  But if not, I ride (at least through town) almost every day (that I can).



Nice! Traffic in SoCal has gotten so bad and dangerous that I actually sold my harley last year. I wasn't using it as much as it deserved to be used anyways so it went to a better home.

To my girl's dismay, I still have my Hayabusa that I take to the race track and drag strip as often as I can when I'm home!


----------



## yaps66 (Aug 19, 2022)

samandhi said:


> This  so much. Though, I seem to be just a bit less sensitive than @ WoodyLuvr because I have some that are super boosted in that region (Maria II, Alpha 1, etc...) that I still listen to frequently. I just have to listen to them at a much lower volume all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don’t know much about bikes but those look vintage and really cool!

Edit: Vintage Vespas are all the rage here in Vietnam


----------



## samandhi

yaps66 said:


> Don’t know much about bikes but those like vintage and really cool!
> 
> Edit: Vintage Vespas are all the rage here in Vietnam


Thank you very much! I enjoy my time with them. 

The only one that is vintage is the blue one (Honda Nighthawk S). It is a 1985. They only made 30000 for three years.  

The rest are more contemporary. Yamaha Road Star Midnight Silverado 2006
Honda Nighthawk 1999
Harley Davidson Street Glide 2012


----------



## Stevehamny

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I was actually nearly deaf in my left ear after it got mangled in an explosion if Afghanistan. Only a donated 3 surgery proceedure rescued my hearing in that ear and now I hear better in it than I do in my right ear, though both are above average for my age according to my doctor who checks me every 6 months. Point being, I understand how bad hearing damage and loss can suck. The 1.5 years I dealt with that were amongst the darkest times in my life.



JA, your backstory makes me appreciate a family friend (now departed) who was a musical prodigy as a boy, who was even taken on a special trip to meet Rachmaninoff. He enlisted as a Marine in WWII and served in the Pacific theater, stationed on a remote island where he was nearly killed by a hand grenade. He ducked behind a palm tree just in time, but the blast left him deaf in one ear for the rest of his life. He was never the same as a pianist, although he did serve as a church music director for many years.

(His given name was Percival, by the way. But you don't call a Marine veteran Percy, God knows, so everyone knew him as Perk. Anyway, thanks for making me remember him today, and thank you for sharing this story. So glad you lived in a later time and had the opportunity to get it fixed!)

Oh, and speaking of bikes, here's my son on his Aprilla. (And no, I swear I am NOT as old as this picture of my son would suggest!)






EDIT: I turned him on to IEMs this year. Earbuds next?


----------



## samandhi

Stevehamny said:


> JA, your backstory makes me appreciate a family friend (now departed) who was a musical prodigy as a boy, who was even taken on a special trip to meet Rachmaninoff. He enlisted as a Marine in WWII and served in the Pacific theater, stationed on a remote island where he was nearly killed by a hand grenade. He ducked behind a palm tree just in time, but the blast left him deaf in one ear for the rest of his life. He was never the same as a pianist, although he did serve as a church music director for many years.
> 
> (His given name was Percival, by the way. But you don't call a Marine veteran Percy, God knows, so everyone knew him as Perk. Anyway, thanks for making me remember him today, and thank you for sharing this story. So glad you lived in a later time and had the opportunity to get it fixed!)
> 
> ...


Very moving story.


And FANTASTIC looking bike!  I'm too old for one of those. I stick to low&slow nowadays... hehe


----------



## qua2k (Aug 19, 2022)

Riku Berserker 2 ordered! Very much looking forward to hearing his buds, especially the 2nd Berserker as the first reviewed very well. Now I need to stop buying sh.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 19, 2022)

Stevehamny said:


> JA, your backstory makes me appreciate a family friend (now departed) who was a musical prodigy as a boy, who was even taken on a special trip to meet Rachmaninoff. He enlisted as a Marine in WWII and served in the Pacific theater, stationed on a remote island where he was nearly killed by a hand grenade. He ducked behind a palm tree just in time, but the blast left him deaf in one ear for the rest of his life. He was never the same as a pianist, although he did serve as a church music director for many years.
> 
> (His given name was Percival, by the way. But you don't call a Marine veteran Percy, God knows, so everyone knew him as Perk. Anyway, thanks for making me remember him today, and thank you for sharing this story. So glad you lived in a later time and had the opportunity to get it fixed!)
> 
> ...



Your friend sounds like a legend. The things soldiers sacrifice for their countries, eh? Just to have reminded you of his story is truly an honor. Thanks for sharing his story!


----------



## ValSuki

Just waiting for more drivers to actually give this a full test, not a bad little shell!


----------



## samandhi

qua2k said:


> Riku Berserker 2 ordered! Very much looking forward to hearing his buds, especially the 2nd Berserker as the first reviewed very well. *Now I need to stop buying sh.*


Good luck with that one! If you manage it, you are a better person than myself (who keeps saying that same thing... in a loop). 

Congratz on your new shiny BTW!


----------



## qua2k

samandhi said:


> Good luck with that one! If you manage it, you are a better person than myself (who keeps saying that same thing... in a loop).
> 
> Congratz on your new shiny BTW!


Desktop amp is next on the list but not for a while. Simmering it down for a bit... plus the amp I am interested in is not released yet so that is a plus.


----------



## samandhi

qua2k said:


> Desktop amp is next on the list but not for a while. Simmering it down for a bit... plus the amp I am interested in is not released yet so that is a plus.


I am of the same mind. I have recently bought to the edge (and a bit over) my hobby budget. I need to re-charge.


----------



## prakasitp

JAnonymous5150 said:


> So just a quick thought: Often times lately when I have been doing a lot of headphone or earbud trials and critical listening and I just want a good low key listen with solid performance that won't fatigue me, one of the options I have been reaching for consistently are my FAAEAL Rosemarys. Are they the best or most detailed buds? Nope. Are they one heck of a solid earbud for the money? Hell yes. Put on some blues or some solid indie rock with some dirty, crunchy guitars and male vocalists with a little bit of grit to their delivery and you're in relaxed listening heaven. I have a few go to comfy kick back sets (headphones, IEMs, and earbuds/flatheads) and the Rosemarys are a solid addition to their ranks.


very interesting!! did u get 3.5mm or 2.5/4.4mm cable?


----------



## oatp1b1

My MX985's finally get to rest after almost 10 years of use.  FF3's sound great out of the box but mids are a bit different than what I'm used to. Hopefully it's something that I can get used to.


----------



## chavez (Aug 19, 2022)

dududs said:


> Anyone here tested this new openheart nightingale?
> 
> aliexpress.com/item/1005004370142576.html



This bud exists for a while now, but i dont know anyone who tried it. Its available in a few stores.

€ 11,92  37%OFF | Upgrade Heavy Bass HIFI Earbuds MMCX Earphones DIY Customize MX500 Earphones
https://a.aliexpress.com/_m015glm


There is even a newer version with the LCP driver.

€ 9,75  37%OFF | 1 Pair Transparent Shell MMCX Earphones Earbuds Titanium / LCP Diaphragm Heavy Bass MMCX Headphones
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mL1Hdyu


----------



## drewbadour

Anyone have extensive experience with RikuBuds?

Looking to buy one (or more) and would appreciate thoughts and opinions on the different models (Leaning towards Saber/Berserker, Lancer, and Rider).

If my IEM preferences help I've ranked the IEMs I've owned in my signature.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 19, 2022)

prakasitp said:


> very interesting!! did u get 3.5mm or 2.5/4.4mm cable?



I have the 4.4mm balanced version. Plug the Rosemarys in to a decent DAC throw on some tunes and kick back. They have such a laid back, inoffensive tuning that they're great for kickin' back after hours of AB comparisons and critical listening.

They sound good with just about anything, but they have a special kind of synergy with the Moondrop Dawn which is a dual CS43131 chipped DAC. It really makes the low end on the Rosemarys come to life and infuses some musicality into the upper mids and treble.

I just reread that post and I just want to say that I didn't mean to make it sound like they don't have decent detail retrieval because they do. It's just not exceptional and the presentation doesn't throw the details in your face so that you're forced to pay attention like some super detailed buds can sometimes do. That quality allows the Rosemarys to have plenty of detail to take advantage of a good DAC and good source files, but still be perfect for a chilled out listening session. I find myself reaching for them in these kinds of situations more than I ever would have thought when I first got them.


----------



## prakasitp

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I have the 4.4mm balanced version. Plug the Rosemarys in to a decent DAC throw on some tunes and kick back. They have such a laid back, inoffensive tuning that they're great for kickin' back after hours of AB comparisons and critical listening.
> 
> They sound good with just about anything, but they have a special kind of synergy with the Moondrop Dawn which is a dual CS43131 chipped DAC. It really makes the low end on the Rosemarys come to life and infuses some musicality into the upper mids and treble.
> 
> I just reread that post and I just want to say that I didn't mean to make it sound like they don't have decent detail retrieval because they do. It's just not exceptional and the presentation doesn't throw the details in your face so that you're forced to pay attention like some super detailed buds can sometimes do. That quality allows the Rosemarys to have plenty of detail to take advantage of a good DAC and good source files, but still be perfect for a chilled out listening session. I find myself reaching for them in these kinds of situations more than I ever would have thought when I first got them.


like the sound when u explain things, i’ll get a pair then. 😆😆😆


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 19, 2022)

drewbadour said:


> Anyone have extensive experience with RikuBuds?
> 
> Looking to buy one (or more) and would appreciate thoughts and opinions on the different models (Leaning towards Saber/Berserker, Lancer, and Rider).
> 
> If my IEM preferences help I've ranked the IEMs I've owned in my signature.



Do you mind if I ask what has made you decide on Rikubuds for your first pair(s) rather than some cheaper consumer buds to figure out what you're looking for in an earbud? I'm not advocating either way. Just curious.

As someone who has just rediscovered earbuds a few months back I can say that I am surprised at how different my generally preferred sound signatures in earbuds are to IEMs and also how the relative importance of various qualities to one another has changed the way I evaluate earbuds versus IEMs. I'm glad that my experience with some budget/inexpensive options let me figure most of that stuff out so that when it came time to looking at flagships and DIY builds where the resale market and potential is much smaller I am more prepared with detailed knowledge of what I'm looking for and thus less likely to grab something that doesn't fit me and have to take the hit. Just food for thought and I'm not trying to take business away from Riku or anything just interested and sharing my experience, FWIW.

Either way, I hope you find what you're looking for. I'm awaiting my first Riku creation right now (Rider 1s per yhe recommendation of the master himself!) so I can't comment on the rest. I'm eagerly awaiting their arrival so I can hear what all the hype and praise is about!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

prakasitp said:


> like the sound when u explain things, i’ll get a pair then. 😆😆😆



Haha maybe I should ask FAAEAL if they need a new head of marketing...🤔


----------



## drewbadour

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Do you mind if I ask what has made you decide on Rikubuds for your first pair(s) rather than some cheaper consumer buds to figure out what you're looking for in an earbud? I'm not advocating either way. Just curious.
> 
> As someone who has just rediscovered earbuds a few months back I can say that I am surprised at how different my generally preferred sound signatures in earbuds are to IEMs and also how the relative importance of various qualities to one another has changed the way I evaluate earbuds versus IEMs. I'm glad that my experience with some budget/inexpensive options let me figure most of that stuff out so that when it came time to looking at flagships and DIY builds where the resale market and potential is much smaller I am more prepared with detailed knowledge of what I'm looking for and thus less likely to grab something that doesn't fit me and have to take the hit. Just food for thought and I'm not trying to take business away from Riku or anything just interested and sharing my experience, FWIW.
> 
> Eithet way, I hope you find what you're looking for. I'm awaiting my first Riku creation right now (Rider 1s per yhe recommendation of the master himself!) so I can't comment on the rest. I'm eagerly awaiting their arrival so I can hear what all the hype and praise is about!


I have the Iris 2.0, Qian39, and the Yincrow X6. Prior to those, I've had the Yuin PK3 and VE Monks.

I quite like the X6 but sometimes the bass can bleed into the mids a bit and make it sound a bit muddy compared to the Qian39 which I feel is quite a bit clearer.

Riku did suggest I consider the Rider, Berserker/Saber but I'm also curious about the Lancer as that seems to be super well received as well.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

drewbadour said:


> I have the Iris 2.0, Qian39, and the Yincrow X6. Prior to those, I've had the Yuin PK3 and VE Monks.
> 
> I quite like the X6 but sometimes the bass can bleed into the mids a bit and make it sound a bit muddy compared to the Qian39 which I feel is quite a bit clearer.
> 
> Riku did suggest I consider the Rider, Berserker/Saber but I'm also curious about the Lancer as that seems to be super well received as well.



That answers that lol! I thought based on what you said about looking at your list of IEMs that you were just getting into buds. It sounds like you've done a bit of what I was talking about so I'll just shut up and try not to look stupid...


----------



## drewbadour

JAnonymous5150 said:


> That answers that lol! I thought based on what you said about looking at your list of IEMs that you were just getting into buds. It sounds like you've done a bit of what I was talking about so I'll just shut up and try not to look stupid...


Lol no worries! I'm very out of the loop with earbuds and the three buds I own were also suggested by Riku when I was looking to get into buds. Very much unaware of what's available and I have absolutely no idea how to read an earbud FR even.

I really just am trying to figure out if there is something with the bass and tonality of the X6 but with the clarity/technicalities of the Qian39.


----------



## dududs

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Nope, but I am waiting for them to show up from AE as we speak. Probably won't be here for at least a week or two, though. After having good luck with the metal shelled openheart buds and their over ears before that, these seemed like a must try when I went back to place an AE order for a couple things I forgot in my last order. Did you order them already too?



I'm thinking in ordering them or the ry4s plus mmcx, i will probably like the ry4s but the price on this one is so good considering it already comes with a cable, however is a shot in the dark and i usually don't have much luck doing this


----------



## ttorbic

drewbadour said:


> Lol no worries! I'm very out of the loop with earbuds and the three buds I own were also suggested by Riku when I was looking to get into buds. Very much unaware of what's available and I have absolutely no idea how to read an earbud FR even.
> 
> I really just am trying to figure out if there is something with the bass and tonality of the X6 but with the clarity/technicalities of the Qian39.


I own Alter Rider 1, and it got me hooked onto the world of earbuds. If you're already talking with Riku, then, from my experience, he will give you his honest recommendation. He has tested and reviewed a fair number of earbuds, so he will be able to speak from experience. Although my ears hear the Alter Rider 1 slightly differently to Riku's, I really enjoy the bass and treble extension on that set. I also own the Serratus, which is one of tgx's flagship sets, but it's a fairly balanced sound, so not sure if you'd like the quantity of the bass. DM me if you want more details


----------



## mt877 (Aug 19, 2022)

drewbadour said:


> Lol no worries! I'm very out of the loop with earbuds and the three buds I own were also suggested by Riku when I was looking to get into buds. Very much unaware of what's available and I have absolutely no idea how to read an earbud FR even.
> 
> I really just am trying to figure out if there is something with the bass and tonality of the X6 but with the clarity/technicalities of the Qian39.


I don't know if I was the first to get a set of RikuBuds Berserker 1's or not, only @RikudouGoku can certify that, but I was the first to give a little review of them here.

Here's a small recap of the Berserker 1. RikudouGoku was aiming for the ultimate upgrade to one of his favorite buds the Yincrow X6. Well he succeeded and then some.

The Berserker 1 are a ****"big upgrade over the X6's and deliver nice bass punch with a sub-bass focus that don't bleed all over the mids. Also somewhat of a surprise is that the treble is smooth and airy, not sharp and in your face. Not sure if it's just a small treble roll off, but makes for non-fatiguing listening experience.

Of course since I just spent some time intently listening to both Fiio EM5 and Yincrow RW-3000, I'll give a little comparison.
The sound signature leans toward the RW-3000. I guess that would be inevitable considering RikudouGoku was aiming for an upgrade over the Yincrow X6. I've listened to these buds side by side the RW-3000. The B1's have a touch more bass, the midrange is comparable and the treble is smoother. Where the B1's can't compare is the overall soundstage that the RW-3000 present." ***

*** Quoted from my short review

So if you like the X6 and you want something that has that Yincrow sound signature but literally blows the X6 out of the water then go for the Berserker 1. This thread has some rave reviews of both RikuBuds Berserker 1 and Yincrow RW-3000. If you find that you just can't contain yourself... get them both and be a very happy camper.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> I don't know if I was the first to get a set of RikuBuds Berserker 1's or not, only @RikudouGoku can certify that, but I was the first to give a little review of them here.
> 
> Here's a small recap of the Berserker 1. RikudouGoku was aiming for the ultimate upgrade to one of his favorite buds the Yincrow X6. Well he succeeded and then some.
> 
> ...


That is pretty cool because the RW3000 is a very formidable earbud IMHO. Good job @RikudouGoku!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

I easily can rank my Berserker 1 in the top ten flathead earbuds that I have ever heard and/or owned. Yes, that good! Tuned for fun! No naughtiness.


----------



## Braekfast

I also got word that my berserker 2 is on the way earlier today. Very excited to get my hands on it and hear it in action. Big thanks to @RikudouGoku for making it of course, and also @mt877 and @WoodyLuvr whose reviews convinced me to go for one of the rikubuds.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

dududs said:


> I'm thinking in ordering them or the ry4s plus mmcx, i will probably like the ry4s but the price on this one is so good considering it already comes with a cable, however is a shot in the dark and i usually don't have much luck doing this



Well as I mentioned before, it's a bit of a shot in the dark for me because I haven't heard these buds. However, I was given a pair of over ears from them that sounded decent and were so well built that I modded them with some Tesla drivers and they kill. Then I tried Openheart's metal shelled mmcx buds and just posted a thing the other day about how they're pretty darn good sounding and built really well. With all of that in mind, it just made sense for me to give another pair of buds from them a try. 

I'll let you know how they are when they show up if you'd like. As I said, it will be a week or two until they get here, but just let me know if you'd like me to shoot you a message or tag you in a post about them when they show up.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 19, 2022)

Rose Technics Mojito first impressions:

The Mojitos are the third earbud I am trying from Rose Technics. I wasn't a big fan of the Martinis, but the Maria IIs have this special delicate ethereality to them that I have never heard in any other earbud so they're joining the collection. I have heard some good things about the Mojitos so I was pretty excited to give them a try to see if I needed to make more room in my collection.

I want to start this off by saying that the Mojitos are a pretty good sounding earbud. They have a pretty punchy mostly mid bass focused low end that brings a little energy to tracks with a solid beat. The mids are linear and clean with pretty good detail. The highs have some air in them and do a good job reproducing the higher parts of tracks, but they lack a little energy and shimmer. I have other buds that are like this, but they are exceptional in other ways that makes it a footnote rather than a point to critique. Unfortunately for the Mojitos, I find them to be another solid B+ student earbud that does some things well, but never comes through at the top of the class. (See my earlier comments about the Astrotec Lyra Collections if you'd like to know why I am calling these "another" B+ student)

Overall, I could easily see someone really liking the Mojitos, much the way I could with the Lyra Collections I demoed a couple days ago. I think the creators of the Mojitos started out with a good concept and pushed to create a great earbud, but in trying to make it great at everything they never quite reached it's potential. Instead, these buds consistently fall just short of other buds in my collection or that I have heard/demoed in everything I try them at. If I had to make a comparison, it sounds a bit like the designers tried to create the RW-3000, but just weren't quite as successful as the folks at Yincrow.

If you've ever heard the Yincrow RW-3000 and thought you'd like a bud just like it but with a little less detail, slightly more intimate soundstage, a hair less treble extension, and a low end that's not quite as tight/articulate then the Mojitos are your bud. If you're a fan of punchy, mid focused bass with a little bit of smoothed edges on notes and a tad more length on the decay while still being well controlled and not mushy the Mojitos might be worth a look. If the larger soundstages on some TOTL buds sound a bit too spread out to you and you want a more intimate attempt at a fairly balanced high end bud, the Mojitos might just be your pick.

Unfortunately for the Mojitos I'm not looking for any of that. However, this tale has a happy ending because I already have a buyer for them so come Monday they'll have a new audio fanatic to please and he already knows he wants them. See? Things do tend to work themselves out in the end...

In other news the Fiio FF3s and the Simphonio Dragon 3s still have me blown away. The FF3s because I had no idea that an earbud could sound this big, powerful, and authoritative. As for the Dragon 3s, they're just operating on another level. They do so many things so damn well that it's really hard to find something I don't like about them and the more I listen to them the more I like about them. They're just that good.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Rose Technics Mojito first impressions:
> 
> The Mojitos are the third earbud I am trying from Rose Technics. I wasn't a big fan of the Martinis, but the Maria IIs have this special delicate ethereality to them that I have never heard in any other earbud so they're joining the collection. I have heard some good things about the Mojitos so I was pretty excited to give them a try to see if I needed to make more room in my collection.
> 
> ...


Very nice! Glad they found a home.

In other.... other news MY FF3 will be here tomorrow. Things in the shipping arena must be returning to normal because they had my order estimated to arrive Sept. 04. That means that it will have only taken 11 days from China to USA (and that is regular China Post, and USPS). That almost feels more amazing than actually receiving my new buds....

OK. No it doesn't, but at least it IS a surprise (in a good way).


----------



## numon

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Rose Technics Mojito first impressions:
> 
> The Mojitos are the third earbud I am trying from Rose Technics. I wasn't a big fan of the Martinis, but the Maria IIs have this special delicate ethereality to them that I have never heard in any other earbud so they're joining the collection. I have heard some good things about the Mojitos so I was pretty excited to give them a try to see if I needed to make more room in my collection.
> 
> ...


i had mojito  ,i liked it very much.
can you make  mojito vs maria 2 in soundstage wideness ,fullness, brightness..


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Very nice! Glad they found a home.
> 
> In other.... other news MY FF3 will be here tomorrow. Things in the shipping arena must be returning to normal because they had my order estimated to arrive Sept. 04. That means that it will have only taken 11 days from China to USA (and that is regular China Post, and USPS). That almost feels more amazing than actually receiving my new buds....
> 
> OK. No it doesn't, but at least it IS a surprise (in a good way).


Nice! Can't wait to hear read your FF3 impressions. The only complaint from a couple people including myself is the slightly memory prone cables that like to hold the cable curl. Actually my cable has relaxed a bit now, but I'm only loosely coiling them and not storing them in a bud case.


----------



## o0genesis0o

mt877 said:


> Nice! Can't wait to hear read your FF3 impressions. The only complaint from a couple people including myself is the slightly memory prone cables that like to hold the cable curl. Actually my cable has relaxed a bit now, but I'm only loosely coiling them and not storing them in a bud case.



I coil the cable and store the buds in the included case. It has no kink or nasty memory like some IEM cables (cough … Campfire Audio), but it is stubborn. It is straight, but straight the way it wants to be, not the way I want it to be. Waiting for @JAnonymous5150 to do some cable swapping experiment


----------



## dududs

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I'll let you know how they are when they show up if you'd like. As I said, it will be a week or two until they get here, but just let me know if you'd like me to shoot you a message or tag you in a post about them when they show up.


I would love that! thanks!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

numon said:


> i had mojito  ,i liked it very much.
> can you make  mojito vs maria 2 in soundstage wideness ,fullness, brightness..



The Maria IIs are brighter for sure, though still well balanced. They have a significantly larger soundstage in both width and depth than the Mojitos, with the soundstage having more width than depth. The Maria IIs have significantly more detail than the Mojitos. Perhaps most importantly, the Maria IIs have this ability to portray music with this delicate, etheral quality that makes certain genres come across in a very unique and special way, but for me they are a specialist earbud for sure. When I try to use them for general listening they are far too picky about which tracks they make sound amazing versus which tracks sound terrible...more than any othet earbud I have ever heard. It's worth keeping them around for that unique quality to their presentation though because when you listen to the music that they jive with it's a truly special experience.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> I coil the cable and store the buds in the included case. It has no kink or nasty memory like some IEM cables (cough … Campfire Audio), but it is stubborn. It is straight, but straight the way it wants to be, not the way I want it to be. Waiting for @JAnonymous5150 to do some cable swapping experiment



I got the second pair of FF3s yesterday, but I haven't had time to sit down and figure out how to tackle the mod. I WILL end up with a pair of FF3s with a different cable. I just need to figure out if these's a good clean way to add an mmcx connector or if I'm just going to recable with another cable.

Though as time has gone on, the stock cable is really not too bad. But once I have it in my head that I'm gonna do a mod it's gonna happen lol.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I got the second pair of FF3s yesterday, but I haven't had time to sit down and figure out how to tackle the mod. I WILL end up with a pair of FF3s with a different cable. I just need to figure out if these's a good clean way to add an mmcx connector or if I'm just going to recable with another cable.
> 
> Though as time has gone on, the stock cable is really not too bad. But once I have it in my head that I'm gonna do a mod it's gonna happen lol.



When I am skillful enough and have something to replace FF3 (hopefully FF5), I also want to open it up and replace the driver somehow. Someone (cannot recall the exact person now, sorry!) told me that the magic of FF3 is from its shell, not the driver. Perhaps we can squeeze a bit more performance out of it? IDK.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> When I am skillful enough and have something to replace FF3 (hopefully FF5), I also want to open it up and replace the driver somehow. Someone (cannot recall the exact person now, sorry!) told me that the magic of FF3 is from its shell, not the driver. Perhaps we can squeeze a bit more performance out of it? IDK.


Sounds like a worthwhile experiment IMO...


----------



## o0genesis0o

Either I don’t need that much bass as I imagined or FF3 has really good bass performance because this drum cover sounds fantastic. Love the sound when she hits two tom tom at the same time around 0:30. Kick drum has clear impact when the beater strikes but also the rumble and decay, not just “poof” like my Andromeda or some other lesser single DD IEM. 

Fun fact: Some people who follow my ranking list have ordered FF3 because of the abnormal level of performance / price ratio that it has in my ranking system. Hopefully I don’t disappoint them


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> When I am skillful enough and have something to replace FF3 (hopefully FF5), I also want to open it up and replace the driver somehow. Someone (cannot recall the exact person now, sorry!) told me that the magic of FF3 is from its shell, not the driver. Perhaps we can squeeze a bit more performance out of it? IDK.



They say that the shell's flute and drum design is part of why the sound is so powerful and authoritative. The long stroke driver being the other major part. I don't really have a desire to move it to another shell because I really like the fit and performance so much, but I will crack it open and see what the driver looks like when I have it open for the cable modding business, obviously.


----------



## christianfps

drewbadour said:


> Riku did suggest I consider the Rider, Berserker/Saber but I'm also curious about the Lancer as that seems to be super well received as well


Just realized that the naming came from the Fate series. A man of culture indeed!


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> They say that the shell's flute and drum design is part of why the sound is so powerful and authoritative. The long stroke driver being the other major part. I don't really have a desire to move it to another shell because I really like the fit and performance so much, but I will crack it open and see what the driver looks like when I have it open for the cable modding business, obviously.



It turns out this is Fiio measuring gig. Fancy.


----------



## christianfps

o0genesis0o said:


> Fun fact: Some people who follow my ranking list have ordered FF3 because of the abnormal level of performance / price ratio that it has in my ranking system. Hopefully I don’t disappoint them


One of them which is me hahaha! Following the previous OLA inquiries months ago. I too got interested when you suggested the FF3s. I mainly use my stuff for gaming and have tried open back headphones but didn't really suit the sound profile I was looking for! So I hope the FF3s give me the wallhacking sensation due to the accurate imaging haha!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> It turns out this is Fiio measuring gig. Fancy.



Yeah, mine too. I thought this was standard for every true enthusiast😜


----------



## yaps66

drewbadour said:


> Riku did suggest I consider the Rider, Berserker/Saber but I'm also curious about the Lancer as that seems to be super well received as well.


I have both the Saber and the Lancer.  Both are very well tuned with the Lancer taking the lead in terms of clarity.  However if you lean towards more bass in your listening profile, the Saber should be your choice.  Although I have not heard, based on others here, it would be Berserker if you are a basshead.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Yeah, mine too. I thought this was standard for every true enthusiast😜



Holy moly. I'll stick with my knock-off IEC711 coupler, thank you


----------



## drewbadour

Ah interesting 🤔 thats super helpful 

If I like the yincrow x6 amount of bass, would that be berserker over saber then?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Holy moly. I'll stick with my knock-off IEC711 coupler, thank you



I'll stick with my ears and leave my coupler packed away in the closet. I just haven't been much into the measuring thing lately. That's what I have you guys for lol!


----------



## yaps66

drewbadour said:


> Ah interesting 🤔 thats super helpful
> 
> If I like the yincrow x6 amount of bass, would that be berserker over saber then?


I have not heard the berserker (yet) so I cannot make that judgment. However, the bass of both X6 and the saber are similar.  It would be safe to say, if you want more bass than x6 than berserker is your bae!


----------



## yaps66

I have succumbed.  FF3 ordered.  Resistance is futile as they say!


----------



## tgx78 (Aug 20, 2022)

I think @RikudouGoku just announced the Berserker 2 with even moar Bassss!

Edit: ordered one


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I'll stick with my ears and leave my coupler packed away in the closet. I just haven't been much into the measuring thing lately. That's what I have you guys for lol!



You remind me of the 64 audio founder. He said something like we have ears and brain to know good sound, measurements are there for record keeping and quality control.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

yaps66 said:


> I have succumbed.  FF3 ordered.  Resistance is futile as they say!



That a' boy! So you finally saw the light, eh? I assure you, you won't be disappointed. I am not currently aware of any buds/flatheads anywhere close to this price that can touch the FF3s. And I'm not aware of any other pair for any price that have the same massive, authoritative presentation. It's something you have to hear to understand what I mean, but everything just sounds so lush and full while being very dynamic and clear at the same time. Whether it's the long throw driver, the drum and flute shell design, or just voodoo and dumb luck, it's a unique mix that I genuinely love. Since I got the FF3s I have listened to them more than any other earbud.

Anyways, welcome to the club. I knew you had it in ya'! Now about those membership dues, would you like my PayPal info or would you rather send me the cash some other way? I'll get your membership card and exclusive members only jacket out to you ASAP.😜🤘


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> It turns out this is Fiio measuring gig. Fancy.


That’s not fancy.  




That’s fancy!


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> That’s not fancy.
> 
> That’s fancy!



Great measurement and scaring the kids at the same time, what else can you ask for


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Ronion said:


> That’s not fancy.
> 
> That’s fancy!


Mother?


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 20, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> You remind me of the 64 audio founder. He said something like we have ears and brain to know good sound, measurements are there for record keeping and quality control.



I'll take that as a compliment! I like my 64Audio IEMs quite a bit. Although, I used to be way more into things like measurements and EQ tagets and even psychoacoustic modelling profiles. These days I just get more enjoyment out of letting my ears do the exploring and letting designers/manufacturers create something I can enjoy from the jump. It's not for everyone, but it keeps things fun for me. I think I got a bit too serious with my gear and it took me away from the music.


----------



## Ronion

I built that monstrosity over a decade ago.  Learned a lot from the process.

FWIW, I think that’s what’s so cool about the FiiO FF3: it may not be the deepest bud bass of all time, but it does come with authority.  Particularly with the Bass foams.


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I'll take that as a compliment! I like my 64Audio IEMs quite a bit. Although, I used to be way more into things like measurements and EQ tagets and even psychoacoustic modelling profiles. These days I just get more enjoyment out of letting my ears do the exploring and letting designers/manufacturers create something I can enjoy from the jump. It's not for everyone, but it keeps things fun for me. I think I got a bit to serious with my gear and it took me away from the music.


I’m the exact opposite: the better a device measures, the less I have to think/worry about what’s going to come on the stereo next, the more I get into my music.  Almost everything sounds right in transducers that measure well.  The degree they deviate, the more likely they are to sound wrong on the next recording.  So, there’s that.  

What psychoacoustic modeling profiles were you working with?  It’s definitely something I’m interested in and I can’t wait until I get the lab up and running.  Things are going to get cool.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> That’s not fancy.
> 
> That’s fancy!



Can you introduce me? And don't tell my gf. I want to see how things go with her first. Assuming I'm not stepping on any toes, that is...


----------



## samandhi

yaps66 said:


> I have succumbed.  FF3 ordered.  Resistance is futile as they say!


Welcome to the (growing) club...


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> Welcome to the (growing) club...



We should post more in the Fiio FF3 thread so Fiio knows that there are still audio geeks out there supporting their earbuds line


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> We should post more in the Fiio FF3 thread so Fiio knows that there are still audio geeks out there supporting their earbuds line


If we all posted at the same time, we might scare them..


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Can you introduce me? And don't tell my gf. I want to see how things go with her first. Assuming I'm not stepping on any toes, that is...


I saw her first!


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> We should post more in the Fiio FF3 thread so Fiio knows that there are still audio geeks out there supporting their earbuds line


Absolutely.  I can’t wait until the FF5.


----------



## yaps66 (Aug 20, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> That a' boy! So you finally saw the light, eh? I assure you, you won't be disappointed. I am not currently aware of any buds/flatheads anywhere close to this price that can touch the FF3s. And I'm not aware of any other pair for any price that have the same massive, authoritative presentation. It's something you have to hear to understand what I mean, but everything just sounds so lush and full while being very dynamic and clear at the same time. Whether it's the long throw driver, the drum and flute shell design, or just voodoo and dumb luck, it's a unique mix that I genuinely love. Since I got the FF3s I have listened to them more than any other earbud.
> 
> Anyways, welcome to the club. I knew you had it in ya'! Now about those membership dues, would you like my PayPal info or would you rather send me the cash some other way? I'll get your membership card and exclusive members only jacket out to you ASAP.😜🤘


I felt I had no other choice. The more I read the more it called out! Haha! After my recent acquisitions, do you accept payment in kind for my membership dues!?  I feel all tapped out!


----------



## Ronion (Aug 20, 2022)

Here's a good example of why you can't trust measurements as some sort of absolute.  This is a bud I built last night.  One with VE foam on it and one with what feels like HeiGi foams (but I'm not sure as I pulled them off of a defunct bud). The audible difference is large.  The VE sound a little too bright and resonant in the treble.  The HeiGi, a bit too dark.  Now I can listen to either of these all day every day, but their sonic difference exceeds what a simple frequency response can show you.  These are both averages of 4 placements.  Tuning for this bud only took a few minutes and you still see a very nice bass response.  VE Foams almost always add deep bass and treble.  Looking at the measurements, you'd probably doubt that you could hear the difference.  Listening would make it obvious.


----------



## o0genesis0o

You know what, IEM geeks can meet at a noisy coffee shop and still able to audition gears. Earbuds geeks wouldn’t be able to hear anything


----------



## JAnonymous5150

yaps66 said:


> I felt I had no other choice. The more I read the more it called out! Haha! After my recent acquisitions, do you accept payment in kind for my membership dues!?  I feel all tapped out!



Okay man, you're a member! But don't tell anyone else or no one will end up paying me their dues and I'll have a couple dozen bedazzled FF3 members only jackets sitting around that I won't know what to do with...🥺


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> You know what, IEM geeks can meet at a noisy coffee shop and still able to audition gears. Earbuds geeks wouldn’t be able to hear anything


Interesting thing is: when I am wearing earbuds, I still can't hear my wife asking me if I want to take out the garbage......


----------



## o0genesis0o

@JAnonymous5150 with you FF3, does the sound from this drum kit realistic? I have never heard any drum kit in real life. All I know it that the drums sound good here.



Edit: btw, I'm starting FF3 review. Revising my test tracks at the moment. I need to finish reviewing Westone MACH 10 and 20 first though. I promised to publish this weekends.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> @JAnonymous5150 with you FF3, does the sound from this drum kit realistic? I have never heard any drum kit in real life. All I know it that the drums sound good here.
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: btw, I'm starting FF3 review. Revising my test tracks at the moment. I need to finish reviewing Westone MACH 10 and 20 first though. I promised to publish this weekends.




I will check it and let you know as soon as I'm done reviewing the drum tracks I recorded today and picking the tracks I want to move forward with. I can't change headphones in the middle of evaluating my stuff or it'll screw me up. I'll post after I check out the video.


----------



## ttorbic

This is a question for all the folks who own earbuds, headphones, and IEMs: what's the % of listening time split between the three? I sold my Sundara after getting the Alter Rider 1 because 1. Earbuds were much comfier, 2. Much more portable, 3. Staging was competitive and timbre was very good. But now I have a handful of IEMs that aren't getting much use either! So overall, would probably be 75:25 split in favour of earbuds, and would've been higher if I didn't have a noisy open plan office 😅


----------



## baskingshark

ttorbic said:


> This is a question for all the folks who own earbuds, headphones, and IEMs: what's the % of listening time split between the three? I sold my Sundara after getting the Alter Rider 1 because 1. Earbuds were much comfier, 2. Much more portable, 3. Staging was competitive and timbre was very good. But now I have a handful of IEMs that aren't getting much use either! So overall, would probably be 75:25 split in favour of earbuds, and would've been higher if I didn't have a noisy open plan office 😅



I mostly use earbuds at home. Like you, I have sold or given away most of my headphones as the clamp and heat make them quite unusable for me for long sessions. So far I only kept the sennheiser HD650 as that is a classic. So earbuds provide a similar sound without the heat and clamp force.

Outdoors and on the go or for stage monitoring, then the earbuds have a disadvantage of sub-par isolation and IEMs are my go to.

I am not home most of the time though haha. So maybe earbuds get 30% playtime, iems 70%.


----------



## o0genesis0o

ttorbic said:


> This is a question for all the folks who own earbuds, headphones, and IEMs: what's the % of listening time split between the three? I sold my Sundara after getting the Alter Rider 1 because 1. Earbuds were much comfier, 2. Much more portable, 3. Staging was competitive and timbre was very good. But now I have a handful of IEMs that aren't getting much use either! So overall, would probably be 75:25 split in favour of earbuds, and would've been higher if I didn't have a noisy open plan office 😅



I listen to my FF3 all the time unless I need to

walk around in a noisy environment
give my IEMs a listening session
A/B test IEMs for writing reviews
I have HD560s and Beyer COP+ headphones. I dislike both so they are decorations at the moment. I'm thinking about selling both to fund a good pair of planar headphone and amplifier, though I am not in a hurry as the options are limited. I don't like Sundara at all for my library. Arya is more suitable but I am not compelled enough.

IEM wise, none in my collection gives me the balanced performance that I find in FF3. They are either too shouty (Blessing 2, FD5), not dynamic enough (Andromeda), not resolving enough (E5000). So, FF3 at home. DIY IE900 on the street for now.


----------



## numon

JAnonymous5150 said:


> The Maria IIs are brighter for sure, though still well balanced. They have a significantly larger soundstage in both width and depth than the Mojitos, with the soundstage having more width than depth. The Maria IIs have significantly more detail than the Mojitos. Perhaps most importantly, the Maria IIs have this ability to portray music with this delicate, etheral quality that makes certain genres come across in a very unique and special way, but for me they are a specialist earbud for sure. When I try to use them for general listening they are far too picky about which tracks they make sound amazing versus which tracks sound terrible...more than any othet earbud I have ever heard. It's worth keeping them around for that unique quality to their presentation though because when you listen to the music that they jive with it's a truly special experience.


thanks   for detailed answer


----------



## syazwaned

o0genesis0o said:


> I listen to my FF3 all the time unless I need to
> 
> walk around in a noisy environment
> give my IEMs a listening session
> ...


bro, where do you get that DIY ie900?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> @JAnonymous5150 with you FF3, does the sound from this drum kit realistic? I have never heard any drum kit in real life. All I know it that the drums sound good here.
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: btw, I'm starting FF3 review. Revising my test tracks at the moment. I need to finish reviewing Westone MACH 10 and 20 first though. I promised to publish this weekends.




The drums in this sample are highly compressed though the timbre in relatively natural. The problem with compression and druma for judging how realistic reproduction capabilities are is that compression naturally changes the decay on things like cymbals which can hide sibilant peaks that an uncompressed or less compressed cymbal crash for example might expose. Compression also leaves bass drums and toms sounding unnaturally punchy with a truncated post strike decay and a lack of sustain. This is sometimes sought in recording to add presence and power to the drums and control them better in the mix by limiting sustained resonance. Again, this presents a problem for judging the technical and reproductive performance of a transducer because it can add an artificial sense of punch, articulation, and control specifically in the mid bass and low mid regions that may not be am actual property of the transducer itself.

Unfortunately compression is ubiquitous in modern recording and it's hard to find tracks that don't carry it to some extent. However, this track has particularly high levels and I would categorize this as worse than average by a good bit for use judging the percussion reproduction abilities or general technical performance of a transducer.

As a drummer who hates hearing drums be compressed and otherwise manipulated into a very one dimensional, non-dynamic instrument rather than the powerful driving force they were meant to be, this track was difficult to listen to the druma on. What a classic song though. Bon Jovi has been performing this at every show without fail for decades because drunk fans attending his shows to reminisce demand it lol!


----------



## ttorbic (Aug 20, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> The drums in this sample are highly compressed though the timbre in relatively natural. The problem with compression and druma for judging how realistic reproduction capabilities are is that compression naturally changes the decay on things like cymbals which can hide sibilant peaks that an uncompressed or less compressed cymbal crash for example might expose. Compression also leaves bass drums and toms sounding unnaturally punchy with a truncated post strike decay and a lack of sustain. This is sometimes sought in recording to add presence and power to the drums and control them better in the mix by limiting sustained resonance. Again, this presents a problem for judging the technical and reproductive performance of a transducer because it can add an artificial sense of punch, articulation, and control specifically in the mid bass and low mid regions that may not be am actual property of the transducer itself.
> 
> Unfortunately compression is ubiquitous in modern recording and it's hard to find tracks that don't carry it to some extent. However, this track has particularly high levels and I would categorize this as worse than average by a good bit for use judging the percussion reproduction abilities or general technical performance of a transducer.
> 
> As a drummer who hates hearing drums be compressed and otherwise manipulated into a very one dimensional, non-dynamic instrument rather than the powerful driving force they were meant to be, this track was difficult to listen to the druma on. What a classic song though. Bon Jovi has been performing this at every show without fail for decades because drunk fans attending his shows to reminisce demand it lol!


Ooooh what a great reply! Can I ask for your thoughts on this recording? 

Do the cymbals sound natural? I thought it wasn't too bad, but I understand it is on Spotify (so not lossless) and I'm no drummer.

P.S. I'm a jazz fan and just love this whole album. Any other jazz fans on here?


----------



## o0genesis0o (Aug 20, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> The drums in this sample are highly compressed though the timbre in relatively natural. The problem with compression and druma for judging how realistic reproduction capabilities are is that compression naturally changes the decay on things like cymbals which can hide sibilant peaks that an uncompressed or less compressed cymbal crash for example might expose. Compression also leaves bass drums and toms sounding unnaturally punchy with a truncated post strike decay and a lack of sustain. This is sometimes sought in recording to add presence and power to the drums and control them better in the mix by limiting sustained resonance. Again, this presents a problem for judging the technical and reproductive performance of a transducer because it can add an artificial sense of punch, articulation, and control specifically in the mid bass and low mid regions that may not be am actual property of the transducer itself.
> 
> Unfortunately compression is ubiquitous in modern recording and it's hard to find tracks that don't carry it to some extent. However, this track has particularly high levels and I would categorize this as worse than average by a good bit for use judging the percussion reproduction abilities or general technical performance of a transducer.
> 
> As a drummer who hates hearing drums be compressed and otherwise manipulated into a very one dimensional, non-dynamic instrument rather than the powerful driving force they were meant to be, this track was difficult to listen to the druma on. What a classic song though. Bon Jovi has been performing this at every show without fail for decades because drunk fans attending his shows to reminisce demand it lol!


Excellent reply, mate. Thanks for the insight. I need to dig out some Dr. Chesky records to hear proper drums again.

Edit: So I just dug out the dynamic compression tests of Dr. Chesky. And now I feel embarrassed that I couldn't hear the compression in the video clip before


----------



## o0genesis0o (Aug 20, 2022)

syazwaned said:


> bro, where do you get that DIY ie900?



I wrote about it extensively here. I strongly disagree with the folk who shares the Aliexpress link telling people that this DIY is not as resolving as Blessing 2, btw. Not as resolving as S12, sure. Not as resolving as Blessing 2? Nope. Anyhow, that guy managed to track down my review on Aliexpress to find the product and share the link when I deliberately hide the link to avoid advertising that store, so have to give it to him for amazing detective work there.

Anyhow, this kind of "DIY" is frown upon on Head-Fi, so we better not discuss it further.


----------



## fooltoque

ttorbic said:


> This is a question for all the folks who own earbuds, headphones, and IEMs: what's the % of listening time split between the three? I sold my Sundara after getting the Alter Rider 1 because 1. Earbuds were much comfier, 2. Much more portable, 3. Staging was competitive and timbre was very good. But now I have a handful of IEMs that aren't getting much use either! So overall, would probably be 75:25 split in favour of earbuds, and would've been higher if I didn't have a noisy open plan office 😅


If I'm at my desk, my HD560s is on my head. I can wear it all day without really noticing it. It never leaves my desk though. Anywhere else in the house, on the street, in stores, etc., I am using earbuds. Trains get the IEM. So I would say 50% over ears (has to be open back), 50% earbuds, and 5% IEMs. 

I did the math and it checks out.


----------



## fooltoque

Question for anyone who has listened to the FiiO FH3 IEM. I owned one and gave it to my daughter, since the fit was bad for me. But I really liked the tuning. Anyone know any good earbuds which are similar in tuning to those?


----------



## syazwaned

ttorbic said:


> This is a question for all the folks who own earbuds, headphones, and IEMs: what's the % of listening time split between the three? I sold my Sundara after getting the Alter Rider 1 because 1. Earbuds were much comfier, 2. Much more portable, 3. Staging was competitive and timbre was very good. But now I have a handful of IEMs that aren't getting much use either! So overall, would probably be 75:25 split in favour of earbuds, and would've been higher if I didn't have a noisy open plan office 😅


 

I rotate my usage of iem and earbuds weekly. This week iem, then next week earbuds. I have 6 iems and earbuds, so it is going to take 6 weeks to complete the rotation.

I don't use iem for isolation. Because I need to listen to outside noise. Most of my music listening period are during early morning while I am doing my study.


----------



## yaps66

Ronion said:


> Interesting thing is: when I am wearing earbuds, I still can't hear my wife asking me if I want to take out the garbage......


That’s the phenomenon called tuning out the white noise!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

╞REPORT BOT║OPEN╡


Ronion said:


> Interesting thing is: when I am wearing earbuds, I still can't hear my wife asking me if I want to take out the garbage......





yaps66 said:


> That’s the phenomenon called tuning out the white noise!


*@Ronion 
@yaps66*
Posts have been reported to your spouses. Good luck!
╞REPORT-BOT║CLOSED╡


----------



## samandhi

ttorbic said:


> This is a question for all the folks who own earbuds, headphones, and IEMs: what's the % of listening time split between the three? I sold my Sundara after getting the Alter Rider 1 because 1. Earbuds were much comfier, 2. Much more portable, 3. Staging was competitive and timbre was very good. But now I have a handful of IEMs that aren't getting much use either! So overall, would probably be 75:25 split in favour of earbuds, and would've been higher if I didn't have a noisy open plan office 😅


I can't give any percentages, because I switch (frequently) to whatever strikes me at that moment. I may put some headphones on and decide within 2 minutes that my ears aren't in the mood for those that day (or that moment). I have quite a few contrasting head gear so that I can always find something to fit my current desire. This is why I purposely seek head gear that is unique sounding compared to the ones I already have. 

Having said that, when I have some new ones, I tend to try and listen to them (exclusively) for a couple weeks (which doesn't always work out that way though). Also, there are a few sets that are best for all-rounders. To qualify this statement, I feel the need to explain that I rarely ever pick a band and just play that. Normally I will hit "shuffle" with my 28K library, and just listen (hitting "next" on stuff that I am not in the mood for at that moment), and when I run across something that tickles my eardrums, I will either play similar to that, or go into that band and play it for that time. 

I work in temperature controls/building automation (programming), and I work frequently in boiler rooms/mechanical rooms. While I would love to be able to use IEMs to seal out the noise, because I am in a hazardous environment, I need to hear my surroundings. Most times I will wear buds in this situation, or TWS with "hear-through". That would be the only time I am limited in the head gear that I wear.


----------



## samandhi

yaps66 said:


> That’s the phenomenon called tuning out the white noise!


Actually, I think that would be called "tuning out the WIFE noise", wouldn't it?


----------



## yaps66

samandhi said:


> Actually, I think that would be called "tuning out the WIFE noise", wouldn't it?


----------



## yaps66

WoodyLuvr said:


> ╞REPORT BOT║OPEN╡
> 
> 
> *@Ronion
> ...


Haha! Thankfully mine is not the biting sort!


----------



## yaps66

ttorbic said:


> This is a question for all the folks who own earbuds, headphones, and IEMs: what's the % of listening time split between the three? I sold my Sundara after getting the Alter Rider 1 because 1. Earbuds were much comfier, 2. Much more portable, 3. Staging was competitive and timbre was very good. But now I have a handful of IEMs that aren't getting much use either! So overall, would probably be 75:25 split in favour of earbuds, and would've been higher if I didn't have a noisy open plan office 😅


Interesting.  Wonder if this is the first ‘buds survey?!

I am relatively new to buds and still building up my experience but that is not to say I am an iem expert either, though I do have significantly more iems than buds.  Slowly remedying that!  Whereas I only have one headphone (Hifiman HE400i).

I would say I spend equal amount of time with both iems and buds and it really depends on my mood.  You could say I love my iems almost as much as I love my buds!



ttorbic said:


> Ooooh what a great reply! Can I ask for your thoughts on this recording?
> 
> Do the cymbals sound natural? I thought it wasn't too bad, but I understand it is on Spotify (so not lossless) and I'm no drummer.
> 
> P.S. I'm a jazz fan and just love this whole album. Any other jazz fans on here?



I‘m a jazz fan too and I love your Tony Allen rec!  Listening on Tidal now and will add to my list of albums to purchase!


----------



## Stevehamny

ttorbic said:


> P.S. I'm a jazz fan and just love this whole album. Any other jazz fans on here?



Right here, but I'm sure I'm not the only one. Acoustic music is what led me down this rabbit hole in the first place! 

(No complaints, because it was really trading one rabbit hole for another, after already trading the headphone rabbit hole for the IEM rabbit hole. I think I'm finally home now!)

Quick jazz story while we're talking about it. I met Kareem Abdul Jabbar at the Edgar Awards banquet a couple of years ago. (Among everything else, he also co-wrote two books in the Sherlock Holmes universe.) I already knew that he was a very thoughtful and reserved man, which is a hell of thing to be when you're over seven feet tall and everyone in the world knows who you are. I was sure that most people who meet him go right to basketball, or even some dumb joke about how freaking tall he is, so I shook his hand and said, "What's your favorite jazz club in New York City?" 

That led into a long conversation about the Blue Note, Village Vanguard, Iridium, etc. I think he ended up feeling more at home, and it was a real kick for me, too. And it made the world feel a little smaller.


----------



## syazwaned

samandhi said:


> Actually, I think that would be called "tuning out the WIFE noise", wouldn't it?


oh my god you just didn't...🤣


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 20, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Excellent reply, mate. Thanks for the insight. I need to dig out some Dr. Chesky records to hear proper drums again.
> 
> Edit: So I just dug out the dynamic compression tests of Dr. Chesky. And now I feel embarrassed that I couldn't hear the compression in the video clip before



Identifying compression on an instrument you don't play can be pretty difficult. I have been doing studio work since I was a teenager and I still have trouble identifying compression levels on some instruments, especially on recordings from genres I have never been involved in recording. 

You'd be surprised how many people mention things like compression or refer to the poor mixing and mastering of a track who, when asked to point out what specifically they're talking about or to define it, clearly know next to nothing about the topic. Also, between compression, digital drum tracks, samples, and drum triggers there are many people who have almost no concept of what percussion instruments sound like naturally.

I commend you for trying to find material that will let you judge the difference. That's going further than most people would.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

ttorbic said:


> Ooooh what a great reply! Can I ask for your thoughts on this recording?
> 
> Do the cymbals sound natural? I thought it wasn't too bad, but I understand it is on Spotify (so not lossless) and I'm no drummer.
> 
> P.S. I'm a jazz fan and just love this whole album. Any other jazz fans on here?




This is a wonderful example of natural drum sounds. Almost any recording, especially a lossy version, will have some dynamic compression, but because of the nature of jazz production techniques it's the genre that tends to most commonly display drums as they were meant to be heard.

As for being a jazz fan, I'm a huge one. Not only am I a jazz trained drummer, but I have also been playing jazz saxophone since I was five. My mom told me that if I wanted drum lessons then I had to learn a non-percussion instrument of my choice as payment to her for the drums lol! She always said it was to make sure my musical education was well rounded, but I think she was hoping I would end up picking saxophone over druma so she wouldn't have to spend her life listening to hours long drum practice sessions. Sorry, mom!

Coltrane, Charlie Parker, Cannonball Adderley, Chet Baker, Buddy Rich, Max Roach, Count Bassie, Miles Davis, Lenny Pickett, Thelonius Monk, Charles Mingus...I could keep going, but I think you get the drift. Everything but Kenny G and smooth jazz lol! If I had been able to make as much money doing session work playing saxophone as I did drumming, I might have ended up being a primarily a saxophonist now. TBH though, I am a pretty good sax player, but I am a much better, more well rounded drummer. If it wasn't for the music theory I studied to help with sax improvisation, I wouldn't be the songwriter for my band though and I wouldn't be nearly as good of a drummer.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

ttorbic said:


> This is a question for all the folks who own earbuds, headphones, and IEMs: what's the % of listening time split between the three? I sold my Sundara after getting the Alter Rider 1 because 1. Earbuds were much comfier, 2. Much more portable, 3. Staging was competitive and timbre was very good. But now I have a handful of IEMs that aren't getting much use either! So overall, would probably be 75:25 split in favour of earbuds, and would've been higher if I didn't have a noisy open plan office 😅



If I take my studio time and live performance monitoring out of it: 50% headphones, 35% earbuds, 15% IEMs. For the last week to 10 days that I have been demoing all the headphone and earbud orders I had stacked up it has been more like 50% headphones, 45% earbuds, and 5% IEMs. I'm interested to see how it shakes out when my listening habits return to normal with no demos involved and it just comes down to preference and use case.


----------



## ttorbic

JAnonymous5150 said:


> This is a wonderful example of natural drum sounds. Almost any recording, especially a lossy version, will have some dynamic compression, but because of the nature of jazz production techniques it's the genre that tends to most commonly display drums as they were meant to be heard.
> 
> As for being a jazz fan, I'm a huge one. Not only am I a jazz trained drummer, but I have also been playing jazz saxophone since I was five. My mom told me that if I wanted drum lessons then I had to learn a non-percussion instrument of my choice as payment to her for the drums lol! She always said it was to make sure my musical education was well rounded, but I think she was hoping I would end up picking saxophone over druma so she wouldn't have to spend her life listening to hours long drum practice sessions. Sorry, mom!
> 
> Coltrane, Charlie Parker, Cannonball Adderley, Chet Baker, Buddy Rich, Max Roach, Count Bassie, Miles Davis, Lenny Pickett, Thelonius Monk, Charles Mingus...I could keep going, but I think you get the drift. Everything but Kenny G and smooth jazz lol! If I had been able to make as much money doing session work playing saxophone as I did drumming, I might have ended up being a primarily a saxophonist now. TBH though, I am a pretty good sax player, but I am a much better, more well rounded drummer. If it wasn't for the music theory I studied to help with sax improvisation, I wouldn't be the songwriter for my band though and I wouldn't be nearly as good of a drummer.


Thanks for the thoughtful reply! 

I love Paul Desmond's A Taste of Honey, although not sure if that sounds as smooth jazz lol. And Coleman Hawkins ❤️:


----------



## ttorbic

Zeos (I'm ambivalent, but he's funny to listen to while I do dishes), just reviewed the Sivga M200 and FF3:


I like that he shows the ear mould and what types of fit you can get with earbuds!


----------



## samandhi (Aug 20, 2022)

So, I got my FF3 today. I have been listening for a couple of hours to them (4.4mm balanced out of DX300 Amp12 card). The following will be my first impressions:

First, for those that have complained about the cable, looking at the quick-start manual, it appears that they were initially intended to have an MMCX cable (or at the very least it was talked about enough to have it printed in the manual) as seen from one of the pages here:



Spoiler: FiiO FF3 Quick Start Manual



You can see that clearly this wasn't just some "reprint" from an IEM manual, that this is definitely an earbud on the pages (even though they refer to them as "earphones" in the text). Maybe they had a third party print the manual, and they just didn't know one way or the other?! Or, maybe this is a hint of what is to come with the FF5?!







These will definitely be kept in my camp as a very "unique" sound! If I HAD to use one word to describe the sound that I hear on these, I would say smooth. There just isn't anything about any of the frequencies that are too aggressive even though they are a mid forward presentation. Now that doesn't mean that they sound TOO relaxed in any one thing IMO (except maybe with some classic rock, i.e., Lynyrd Skynyrd - Sweet Home Alabama). But I have to say that I think that we just might have a new King of "big soundstage" here.

For example, listening to the song Walking On The Moon - The Police reveals some huge staging. Stewart Copeland (fantastic drummer IMO) plays a rim strike for pretty much the entire song and while the actual strike is front and center, the reverb/echo added to this is simply everywhere around me. I am loving it!

Layering seems to be very good, except on really busy tracks. For instance, the song Astor Place - Scandroid sounds a bit congested. Though I have not run across too many that exhibit this on these so far. We'll see.

These have a nice warm sound to them. I would call the overall signature an "n". The bass lacks a bit of slam, but is definitely present and doesn't seem overly boosted or recessed so tonality isn't unnatural. Treble is not spikey IMO, and is clear enough to hear some nice micro details. One of the biggest things for me is the pina gain region. It is there (which it needs to be IMO) but is not boosted so much as to hurt my ears. Great job FiiO!

I have a lot more thoughts on these, but I don't want to speak before I am sure, because everything could change with more listening sessions (rather than simply making judgement based on one song). Having said all of that, the mixture of their particular DNA make these a really great pair of buds. There is something addicting about the sound I am hearing so far.



Spoiler: FiiO FF3 Pictures
























Edit: OH BTW! I forgot to mention that these probably fit (and stay) better than any buds I currently own (except the ST10S, but those are over ear).


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Stevehamny said:


> Right here, but I'm sure I'm not the only one. Acoustic music is what led me down this rabbit hole in the first place!
> 
> (No complaints, because it was really trading one rabbit hole for another, after already trading the headphone rabbit hole for the IEM rabbit hole. I think I'm finally home now!)
> 
> ...



Kareem was part owner of a jazz club in LA named Lix that was around for a while. It has been closed for at 15 years at this point though. I actually played there once with a jazz act I used to drum for and got to meet him and Reggie Miller who is also a big jazz fan. The club used to get a lot of good acts because Kareem and his record producer co-owner had pull, but the atmosphere and setup was a bit gimmicky, trying too hard to be a speakeasy, and that was eventually the club's downfall.


----------



## ttorbic

samandhi said:


> So, I got my FF3 today. I have been listening for a couple of hours to them (4.4mm balanced out of DX300 Amp12 card). The following will be my first impressions:
> 
> First, for those that have complained about the cable, looking at the quick-start manual, it appears that they were initially intended to have an MMCX cable (or at the very least it was talked about enough to have it printed in the manual) as seen from one of the pages here:
> 
> ...



I am trying so hard to resist another earbud  I don't have a beryllium-coated earbud though, so maybe that's the justification I need (but see below lol).

It's interesting you say that (i know i know, initial impressions) it can get congested on busy tracks - i thought beryllium DDs were renowned for their speed? I mean, I've always been skeptical of manufacturers claiming that beryllium-coated DDs deliver a perceivable difference in sound due to the material properties of _pure _beryllium, but there are folks who swear by the speed of Be drivers, so...🤷‍♂️


----------



## silverszi

I've
been looking at diy earbuds and how current shells fit into my ears
and
now I want to make my own shells
this is what it has come to.
Specifically, all of the major shells are too large to give me good bass because they're too big for my ears and wont get stuck on the ear canal, however to maintain compatibility with common drivers I'd have to make sure there's space for the driver in the shell so my only real choice would be to make a design that has a sort of nozzle and that means either paying someone else to design and produce it for me, crying and/or designing and producing it myself.
And I havent even sourced a driver yet.


----------



## FranQL (Aug 20, 2022)

ttorbic said:


> I am trying so hard to resist another earbud  I don't have a beryllium-coated earbud though, so maybe that's the justification I need (but see below lol).
> 
> It's interesting you say that (i know i know, initial impressions) it can get congested on busy tracks - i thought beryllium DDs were renowned for their speed? I mean, I've always been skeptical of manufacturers claiming that beryllium-coated DDs deliver a perceivable difference in sound due to the material properties of _pure _beryllium, but there are folks who swear by the speed of Be drivers, so...🤷‍♂️




yes, the next thing is the mithril coating, facing the trends stay with what the hypes indicate: newer is always better, now there is the gold coating, blue pet, etc, etc... maybe we will see the condom fabric diaphragm... I don't know.

but if I know what sounds good to my ears regardless of trends and I stick with it, I'm not obsessed with what the experts say, in fact I use them to listen to music, I don't listen to music to analyze a bud

In each impedance I have a favorite and curiously, each one is from a different compound, which gives me the certainty that there is no king compound, you just have to take advantage of the variety to enjoy its sound.


----------



## ttorbic

FranQL said:


> yes, the next thing is the mithril coating, facing the trends stay with what the hypes indicate: newer is always better, now there is the gold coating, blue pet, etc, etc... maybe we will see the condom fabric diaphragm... I don't know.
> 
> but if I know what sounds good to my ears regardless of trends and I stick with it, I'm not obsessed with what the experts say, in fact I use them to listen to music, I don't listen to music to analyze a bud


I would love me some mithril-coated drivers 🤣


----------



## mt877 (Aug 20, 2022)

silverszi said:


> I've
> been looking at diy earbuds and how current shells fit into my ears
> and
> now I want to make my own shells
> ...


Yurbuds earbuds slip-on silicone nozzles? Maybe they'll work for you?


Spoiler: Yurbuds slicone nozzles












Edit: I don't think the Yurbuds brand of earbuds is made anymore, but apparently you can still find them for sale on ebay and amazon.  They made smaller buds marketed for female ears, so a search for "Yurbuds + female" might yield some results. Anyway, hope that helps.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

samandhi said:


> So, I got my FF3 today. I have been listening for a couple of hours to them (4.4mm balanced out of DX300 Amp12 card). The following will be my first impressions:
> 
> First, for those that have complained about the cable, looking at the quick-start manual, it appears that they were initially intended to have an MMCX cable (or at the very least it was talked about enough to have it printed in the manual) as seen from one of the pages here:
> 
> ...


The same manual will be used with the FiiO FF5 MMCX model when it releases here next month (Q3).


----------



## WoodyLuvr

The Earbuds God-Father's latest creation:

*Planar Magnetic Earbud DIY V3* by *@ClieOS*

His creativity abounds. I am too excited for this next installment in his Planar Flathead R&D journey. Mad skills to say the least, yes?!


----------



## o0genesis0o

ttorbic said:


> I am trying so hard to resist another earbud  I don't have a beryllium-coated earbud though, so maybe that's the justification I need (but see below lol).
> 
> It's interesting you say that (i know i know, initial impressions) it can get congested on busy tracks - i thought beryllium DDs were renowned for their speed? I mean, I've always been skeptical of manufacturers claiming that beryllium-coated DDs deliver a perceivable difference in sound due to the material properties of _pure _beryllium, but there are folks who swear by the speed of Be drivers, so...🤷‍♂️



Tom from Dunu explained about these Be coated drivers in an interview. Essentially, some drivers are good but some have too little coating that it does not matter. Pure Be on the other hand can be difficult to use to build drivers (high failure rate, I remember), so they tend to be more expensive. 

Personally, I have no congestion problem with large orchestral pieces, but I don’t listen to very fast metal music either. I found FF3 not “crisp” as my Andromeda in the same track, but not muffled or muddy either. It is within the ballpark of Blessing 2 (good) rather than Andromeda /U12t/Z1r (outstanding).


----------



## o0genesis0o

WoodyLuvr said:


> The Earbuds God-Father's latest creation:
> 
> *Planar Magnetic Earbud DIY V3* by *@ClieOS*
> 
> His creativity abounds. I am too excited for this next installment in his Planar Flathead R&D journey. Mad skills to say the least, yes?!


That shell looks familiar. I think I have seen it somewhere


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Tom from Dunu explained about these Be coated drivers in an interview. Essentially, some drivers are good but some have too little coating that it does not matter. Pure Be on the other hand can be difficult to use to build drivers (high failure rate, I remember), so they tend to be more expensive.
> 
> Personally, I have no congestion problem with large orchestral pieces, but I don’t listen to very fast metal music either. *I found FF3 not “crisp” as my Andromeda in the same track, but not muffled or muddy either. It is within the ballpark of Blessing 2 (good) rather than Andromeda /U12t/Z1r (outstanding).*


I would highly agree with this statement. This, combined with the warm and smooth nature might contribute to this.


----------



## silverszi (Aug 20, 2022)

mt877 said:


> Yurbuds earbuds slip-on silicone nozzles? Maybe they'll work for you?


Maybe
but I think there's an easier solution albeit a jank one unless an asymmetrical shell already exists where it is thicker on the bottom, because that way it would force itself into place in my ear instead of slide around.

edit
I can use a shell with a protruding element to keep it in place instead and those already exist (aliexpress wood shell)


----------



## silverszi

I think i have finally found a driver that will not rupture my ears 
plus I eq'd ve monk and it sounds useable now
i still dont like either the lite or xm500 shell though. lbbs was fine-ish.


----------



## samandhi

I have been experimenting with foam rolling and changing out different amp cards (essentially different DAPs) with the FF3, and I have come to the conclusion that (like @Ronion said) foams make a HUGE difference on these. I mean it isn't as subtle of a difference as I have seen on most (all) of my other buds. 

I decided to strip it all back and start from the beginning. BTW! I suppose I failed to mention in my initial impressions that I went straight to the bass foams (thinking that most buds need a bit of help in this department). I have removed the foams altogether and found that it opened this set up a ton. But now it was a bit hot (right on the edge) in the pina gain region, so I switched out from my most bright amp card (Amp12 card) and put in the Nutube amp card (Amp13). THIS is a great pairing!

I am pretty excited to see all the (noticeable) permutations I might stumble across rolling foams and amp cards. I would not still call these warm or smooth (in all ways) with this lineup. I still really liked the bass foams with Amp12, but not for certain types of music. With no foams on a tube amp I would actually put these more akin to the Chaconne with a slight W (and more bass).

I have not seen this amount of perceived change with a simple foam change since the Audiosense T800 (all BA set) with their tips and cable changes.


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> I have been experimenting with foam rolling and changing out different amp cards (essentially different DAPs) with the FF3, and I have come to the conclusion that (like @Ronion said) foams make a HUGE difference on these. I mean it isn't as subtle of a difference as I have seen on most (all) of my other buds.
> 
> I decided to strip it all back and start from the beginning. BTW! I suppose I failed to mention in my initial impressions that I went straight to the bass foams (thinking that most buds need a bit of help in this department). I have removed the foams altogether and found that it opened this set up a ton. But now it was a bit hot (right on the edge) in the pina gain region, so I switched out from my most bright amp card (Amp12 card) and put in the Nutube amp card (Amp13). THIS is a great pairing!
> 
> ...



The sensitivity to foam is going on the cons list of my review. With balanced and bass foam, I have ideal tuning and staging but lose a noticeable level of resolution. With donut foam, I gain high resolution that even approach Andromeda level sometimes, but the tonality becomes shouty (sometimes). 

It’s tricky to be ear buds seller, to think about it. You build the most resolving buds possible, and folks put double foam on it and write review “blurry, muddy, low resolution”


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> *The sensitivity to foam is going on the cons list of my review. With balanced and bass foam, I have ideal tuning and staging but lose a noticeable level of resolution. With donut foam, I gain high resolution that even approach Andromeda level sometimes, but the tonality becomes shouty (sometimes).*
> 
> It’s tricky to be ear buds seller, to think about it. You build the most resolving buds possible, and folks put double foam on it and write review “blurry, muddy, low resolution”


This exactly. Just WOW IMO! 

LOL to the double foams reviewer!


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 20, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> The sensitivity to foam is going on the cons list of my review.



Why is this a con? That's like saying it's a con that his DAP changes its tonality and performance so much with each amp card. To me the fact that the FF3s are easy to tune by using different foams is an attribute that makes them more versatile to the owner. For every kind of foam that came with them and every aftermarket foam I acquire I essentially have a different earbud. Sure, some of those tunings will be more to my tastes than others, but I just don't see how having a bud that allows you to shape it's sonic properties with a technique as easy as foam rolling is a con.  I guess we just have different perspectives. 

Let me put it this way. Everytime you have foam rolled on an earbud in the past and were unable to achieve annoticeable or usable result I'm sure you thought it was a con that the bud was unable to be changed much from a flawed stock tuning. So now that you have an earbud that's offering you that tuning versatility and just begging for you to explore foam combos you're gonna hold that against the buds too? What should a manufacturer do to get foam rollable tuning to be a pro in your book? I'll bet you're a difficult guy to please...😉


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Why is this a con? That's like saying it's a con that your DAP changes its tonality and performance so much with each amp card. To me the fact that the FF3s are easy to tune by using different foams is an attribute that makes them more versatile to the owner. For every kind of foam that came with them and every aftermarket foam I acquire I essentially have a different earbud. Sure, some of those tunings will be more to my tastes than others, but I just don't see how having a bud that allows you to shape it's sonic properties with a technique as easy as foam rolling is a con.  I guess we just have different perspectives.
> 
> Let me put it this way. Everytime you have foam rolled on an earbud in the past and were unable to achieve annoticeable or usable result I'm sure you thought it was a con that the bud was unable to be changed much from a flawed stock tuning. So now that you have an earbud that's offering you that tuning versatility and just begging for you to explore foam combos you're gonna hold that against the buds too? What should a manufacturer do to get foam rollable tuning to be a pro in your book? I'll bet you're a difficult guy to please...😉



Con is not “too flexible” but like this: “resolving but shouty with donut foam, not shouty but not outstandingly resolving with full foams”. I wish there is a middle ground, though I guess Fiio pushes the ear gain a bit in case people to use foam.

Speaking of difficult, have you seen the position of the expensive Solaris 2020 in my ranking list


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Con is not “too flexible” but like this: “resolving but shouty with donut foam, not shouty but not outstandingly resolving with full foams”. I wish there is a middle ground, though I guess Fiio pushes the ear gain a bit in case people to use foam.
> 
> Speaking of difficult, have you seen the position of the expensive Solaris 2020 in my ranking list



Try other foams. Also, I don't find them shouty at all with the donut foams. I'm not disagreeing with you as that perception is a highly individualized thing. But just as with any IEM or headphone that offers you a great sound that's not quite where you want it, you move on to aftermarket tips, pads, or in this case foams.

For the record, I think the con would be that you don't prefer the stock tuning(s) available then, not the FF3's sensitvity to foams. So far I have found that the stock donuts and these really thin foams from I got in one of my orders are great to switch between. I'm still lovin' the FF3s, still marvelling at the performance they offer for such modest money, and still wondering what Fiio has up it's sleeve for the FF5.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I'm still lovin' the FF3s, still marvelling at the performance they offer for such modest money, and still *wondering what Fiio has up it's sleeve for the FF5.*



Agree about FF3.

About FF5: “Hey fellow young people, I hear you guys like bass and treble. How about lots of bass and treble, eh?” Fiio probably (hope not   )


----------



## mt877 (Aug 20, 2022)

Funny you guys are talking about the FF3 foams. As an exercise to determine foam density I decided to measure the various earbud foams I have on hand.

I have various colors of foams, but only measured the black ones for consistency.

So how did I do it? I took a calibrated luminance meter and a light board for viewing photographic slides and measured the light passing through each foam, not through a single layer of the foam, but through the entire foam with hole side up. I did not measure donut foams due to light passing through without being filtered by a layer of foam. To be consistent with the measurements I masked off a section of the light board to the size of a typical foam and centered each foam in the masked off area and then centered and pressed my luminance meter's nozzle on the foam (which was a perfect fit). The base measurement of my light board was 1238 cd/m2 (candela per meter squared). The values in the table are cd/m2 values after the light was filtered through each foam. Each foam was new and unused. A used foam would have been stretched out, so I'm not sure if used foams would have provided more accurate data. Needless to say that I was not going to use all my foams and stretch them out for the sake of my curiosity, so these measurements will have to suffice.

How to interpret the data. Lower number means less light passed through the foam which would indicate higher foam density. The FF3 balanced and bass foam measurements were surprising. I measured the foams as supplied in their labeled bags. The VE foams were some of the lowest density foams, but there were several that blocked more light. The higher density VE foams were in the same bag along with higher density colored foams, so not sure if VE foams are all supposed to be thin or if they also include thicker foams as well(?). From the numbers, it looks like VE may give you 3 thicknesses of foams, but I'm not 100% sure if that is an accurate statement either. The No Name foams came from a couple sources and have been segregated in their original plastic bags since I got them.

So how does one accurately measure foam density? I guess what I did was a reasonable attempt which gave some numerical data, anyway it was a fun exercise.

Enjoy.

Here's the results:

FF3 Balanced​FF3 Bass​VE Black​Hiegi Black​No Name Black #1​No Name Black #2​No Name Black #3​29.8​35.5​117.6​39.7​20.2​42.2​59.8​23​32.5​129.1​29.4​21.4​50.3​39.1​51​35.4​73.2​32.3​20.9​47.6​35.3​28.4​34.4​84.2​32.7​13.8​37​32.1​33.5​35.6​130.4​23.8​23.9​16.3​33.9​34.1​42.9​125.6​23.1​22.6​42.7​40.7​36.2​31.2​72.2​23.7​25.1​35.7​30.8​38.3​46.1​83.7​28.3​22.8​39.8​34.8​43.2​40.5​180.6​19.1​16.2​41​27.1​51.6​40.1​171.1​32.3​​16.4​39.6​44.9​36.3​140.3​30.2​​7.73​30.5​32.1​44.6​173.8​24.4​​8.95​34.3​​​28.2​​​35.56​32.6​​​26.3​​​​38.6​​​23.6​​​​35.2​​​23.4​​​​39.1​​​160.4​​​​38.1​​​170.4​​​​35.4​​​150.1​​​​31.9​​​154.6​​​​33.4​​​83.5​​​​43.1​​​70.6​​​​33.2​


----------



## Ronion

I’m sure that the FF3 isn’t leaving my stable ever—until I die or it breaks.  The thing I like the most about is the midrange.  I have no idea how to describe it subjectively, but it sure is nice.  The bass is definitely the immediate star of the show, but after a while, the midrange is just lush, full and detailed.


----------



## o0genesis0o

mt877 said:


> Funny you guys are talking about the FF3 foams. As an exercise to determine foam density I decided to measure the various earbud foams I have on hand.
> 
> I have various colors of foams, but only measured the black ones for consistency.
> 
> ...



Wait, so Fiio balance foams are denser than bass foam, according to the measurements?


----------



## ttorbic

I. Must. Resist. The. Checkout. Button.

Also, just adding my two cents to the foam discussion: I've tried it on my two earbuds and didn't really like the results (I prefer the foams used for the tuning by the DIYers), but I'm willing to experiment a bit more for the sake of experimentation. I do agree a bit @o0genesis0o in that I don't wanna faff with foam rolling like I had to with tip rolling for IEMs. I just end up with a plastic container full of tips I don't use in the end, and it does feel a bit like I'm looking for the white whale.


----------



## mt877 (Aug 20, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Wait, so Fiio balance foams are denser than bass foam, according to the measurements?


The numbers would indicate that some of the foams appear to be denser, not all. Other foams in the balanced and bass are equal.

Edit: These are measurements from the foams I received, the bag of foams you received may get different results.

Edit: I'm thinking I might do the measurements again and pair off foams which have the same measurements. I don't want to use a denser foam and a less dense foam and have some difference in sound from each side. Human hearing is sensitive, but is our hearing so sensitive that it can determine slight differences in foam densities?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Just got a late Saturday package with some goodies: Yinman 600 2.0, VE Sun Dice, VE Asura 3.0FE, Copper shelled 80ohm LCP bud (from NSC Audio DIY Store on AliExpress), *.*.*.*.*.*. PT2022 in 365 and 147ohm (thought it would be fun to compare differences as these were the two versions I found praised).

Not sure when I will get around to trying this stuff out as I have been doing a lot of listening to my band's tracks and picking stuff out for a tryout meeting we're having with a new producer we might be working with. I will post thoughts as I try them out though like I did with the last group.


----------



## o0genesis0o

mt877 said:


> Human hearing is sensitive, but is our hearing so sensitive that it can determine slight differences in foam densities?



I noticed a strange phenomenon when modding IEM: my ears are sensitive to things going wrong, but only if they cross a certain boundary to uncanny or harsh level. If they stay within an “adjustable” zone, I couldn’t hear anything wrong. Folks who can hear a tiny bit lacking at 6k or a db too much at 500hz must have unusual aural training 

For example, something like the Meze Advar is very sensitive to tips and mods because it’s 8k is already near the harsh level. For other IEMs? Meh, tips do not make or break an IEM for me. To my ears, FF3 is there at the border. A bit more or less upper mid can push it across.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> VE Asura 3.0FE



Looking forward to this one. Couldn’t find many reviews on it. I was thinking about getting the megatron bundle with this one.

Btw, good luck with your band stuff. I don’t know anything about music industry, but it sounds critical.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 20, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Btw, good luck with your band stuff. I don’t know anything about music industry, but it sounds critical.



Thanks man! Basically, our record company asked us if we had an producers in mind that we would like to work with on our new album and we put together a few choices. A couple of the picks we obviously had no real expectation of getting, but one of them got back to the rep at our label and said he's a fan and wants to meet at a studio on Monday and Tuesday to see if we'd all like to work together. 

I'm pretty stoked because the guy is one of the best artist/producers in indie rock for the last 15 years or so. He's kinda legendary for turning out sick records in our style and he has enough demand that he picks who he wants to work with. With many producers it's just a hiring process where your label offers to pay their fee and it's done. This dude has enough money and can work with anyone he wants so it's more of a mutual tryout process. Everyone wants to bring their best stuff to the table so I'm doing so overtime and compiling all the best takes my band has put together of the stuff we're currently working on. Fingers crossed that it works out.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Thanks man! Basically, our record company asked us if we had an producers in mind that we would like to work with on our new album and we put together a few choices. A couple of the picks we obviously had no real expectation of getting, but one of them got back the rep at our label and said he's a fan and wants to meet at a studio on Monday and Tuesday to see if we'd all like to work together.
> 
> I'm pretty stoked because the guy is one of the best artist/producers in indie rock for the last 15 years or so. He's kinda legendary for turning out sick records in our style and he has enough demand that he picks who he wants to work with. With many producers it's just a hiring process where your label offers to pay their fee and it's done. This dude has enough money and can work with anyone he wants so it's more of a mutual tryout process. Everyone wants to bring their best stuff to the table so I'm doing so overtime and compiling all the best takes my band has put together of the stuff we're currently working on. Fingers crossed that it works out.



Sound like you are at the top of your game. Very much admired. Best of lucks


----------



## Ronion

mt877 said:


> Funny you guys are talking about the FF3 foams. As an exercise to determine foam density I decided to measure the various earbud foams I have on hand.
> 
> I have various colors of foams, but only measured the black ones for consistency.
> 
> ...


Okay, who wants to calculate the average and spread?  I will start.  VE definitely throws in different densities and it looks like their densities are distinct and perhaps more consistent than the others.  
balanced AVG: 37.175 Spread:  23-51.6
       Bass AVG: 37.9.    Spread:  31.2-46.1
      HieGi AVG: 28.25   Spread:  19.1-39.7

Those average numbers are consistent with my visual inspection.


----------



## mt877 (Aug 20, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Okay, who wants to calculate the average and spread?  I will start.  VE definitely throws in different densities and it looks like their densities are distinct and perhaps more consistent than the others.
> balanced AVG: 37.175 Spread:  23-51.6
> Bass AVG: 37.9.    Spread:  31.2-46.1
> HieGi AVG: 28.25   Spread:  19.1-39.7
> ...


Nice! If using the averages of the balanced and bass, would give the same sound profile. It would appear that the only thing that is consistent is that the FF3 foams appear to have inconsistent densities. I guess if you want FF3 bass go with the HieGi, if you want a somewhat balanced signature go with something in the 40 to 50 **** range, if you want something brighter use the VE low density and the brightest use donut foams.

**** Your own measurements would be different then mine, but the chart at least shows a trend.

Edit: So would you match up foams to have consistent left and right channels knowing what you know now?


----------



## Ronion

mt877 said:


> Nice! If using the averages of the balanced and bass, would give the same sound profile. It would appear that the only thing that is consistent is that the FF3 foams appear to have inconsistent densities. I guess if you want FF3 bass go with the HieGi, if you want a somewhat balanced signature go with something in the 40 to 50 **** range, if you want something brighter use the VE low density and the brightest use donut foams.
> 
> **** Your own measurements would be different then mine, but the chart at least shows a trend.


The thing is that my own measurements consistently show the thinner (I’m not sure which) VE foams add both deep bass and sibilant treble and that HeiGi consistently show reduced deep bass and sibilants region treble.  I’ve measured them on several buds with consistent results in area affected regions but to various degrees. IOW, some buds it’s been 2dB, some 4.  That could just be foam density variability.  

HeiGi definitely feel the nicest to my ears FWIW, but everything other than the Trig Rain feels nice enough.

I’ve only measured 2 Bass foams (L+R) and 1 Balanced foam and they sort of measured how FiiO named them.  Visually, I can’t tell the difference at all.  It makes it challenging to know which is which once you removed them and there’s a chance I got the wrong one on one of my Bass measurements.  Since the measurement was consistent with what I hoped for, I assumed I got the right one, but who knows now.  The Bass foams got considerably more bassy after use.


----------



## mt877

Ronion said:


> The thing is that my own measurements consistently show the thinner (I’m not sure which) VE foams add both deep bass and sibilant treble and that HeiGi consistently show reduced deep bass and sibilants region treble.  I’ve measured them on several buds with consistent results in area affected regions but to various degrees. IOW, some buds it’s been 2dB, some 4.  That could just be foam density variability.
> 
> HeiGi definitely feel the nicest to my ears FWIW, but everything other than the Trig Rain feels nice enough.
> 
> I’ve only measured 2 Bass foams (L+R) and 1 Balanced foam and they sort of measured how FiiO named them.  Visually, I can’t tell the difference at all.  It makes it challenging to know which is which once you removed them and there’s a chance I got the wrong one on one of my Bass measurements.  Since the measurement was consistent with what I hoped for, I assumed I got the right one, but who knows now.  The Bass foams got considerably more bassy after use.


You had suggested to me to try the VE foams in a previous post. I just received them yesterday but not tried them yet. Will give them a go and see how they change the sound signature of the FF3. I started with FF3 balanced, switched to donut, back to balanced... maybe the VE low, medium or high density will be the one(s). LOL.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Why is this a con? That's like saying it's a con that his DAP changes its tonality and performance so much with each amp card. To me the fact that the FF3s are easy to tune by using different foams is an attribute that makes them more versatile to the owner. For every kind of foam that came with them and every aftermarket foam I acquire I essentially have a different earbud. Sure, some of those tunings will be more to my tastes than others, but I just don't see how having a bud that allows you to shape it's sonic properties with a technique as easy as foam rolling is a con.  I guess we just have different perspectives.
> 
> Let me put it this way. Everytime you have foam rolled on an earbud in the past and were unable to achieve annoticeable or usable result I'm sure you thought it was a con that the bud was unable to be changed much from a flawed stock tuning. So now that you have an earbud that's offering you that tuning versatility and just begging for you to explore foam combos you're gonna hold that against the buds too? What should a manufacturer do to get foam rollable tuning to be a pro in your book? I'll bet you're a difficult guy to please...😉





o0genesis0o said:


> Con is not “too flexible” but like this: “resolving but shouty with donut foam, not shouty but not outstandingly resolving with full foams”. I wish there is a middle ground, though I guess Fiio pushes the ear gain a bit in case people to use foam.
> 
> Speaking of difficult, have you seen the position of the expensive Solaris 2020 in my ranking list


I definitely see merit in both points here. Whether you call it a "con" or not isn't the point for me though. I see it as neither a con nor a plus. I simply was shocked at the amount of difference my ears picked up from one set to another (or none at all). But it really is like having multiple different earbuds in one. Depending on how much you like to tinker or not, this COULD be seen as a con or a plus, and both would be right (again, depending on the point of view). 

One great aspect is that I CAN wear them "naked" (the buds, not me , though I suppose the other way around is possible too just not the point) and don't budge despite having very "slippery" and fairly heavy metal (ahh, see what I did there? And I wasn't even trying hehe) much like the Chaconne (which DON'T stay put very well even with foams + earhooks).


ttorbic said:


> I. Must. Resist. The. Checkout. Button.
> 
> Also, just adding my two cents to the foam discussion: I've tried it on my two earbuds and didn't really like the results (I prefer the foams used for the tuning by the DIYers), but I'm willing to experiment a bit more for the sake of experimentation. I do agree a bit @o0genesis0o in that I don't wanna faff with foam rolling like I had to with tip rolling for IEMs. I just end up with a plastic container full of tips I don't use in the end, and it does feel a bit like I'm looking for the white whale.


That is the mistake I made with the FF3. I went straight for the "bass" foams thinking that while the labeling is great and all, I have never heard that much of a difference to matter up to this point. I was wrong. 

Maybe I will try the bass foams on the Maria II and see if I can rid myself of that banshee scream that they emit?!  I'm glad that FiiO saw fit to include a bunch of each type.


----------



## Ronion (Aug 20, 2022)

These are my latest that do really well with dense, likely HeiGi foams.  I posted the graph a few pages back.  Well worth $20 and a few minutes of time.  Can make phone calls too and a 1V dongle is at least enough.  Neutral with just a touch of bright, sweet, dynamic and extended.  Not much else to say.




You’ll notice that I make them plain.  Not fancy like my old measurement rig


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> These are my latest that do really well with dense, likely HeiGi foams.  I posted the graph a few pages back.  Well worth $20 and a few minutes of time.  Can make phone calls too and a 1V dongle is at least enough.  Neutral with just a touch of bright, sweet, dynamic and extended.  Not much else to say.
> You’ll notice that I make them plain.  Not fancy like my old measurement rig



Assuming that your graph accurately captures the real life tonality of the ear buds, I would say they are excellent. Something I would buy for sure. Except the bass, I think it traces my preference target closely, down to the dip around 1k and 3k for soundstage depth. A bit sad about the treble though. We need to bump those 15k-up frequencies, 64 Audio TIA style. (Alright, I wouldn't shut up about TIA treble until I get U12t or Trio )


----------



## assassin10000

o0genesis0o said:


> I wish there is a middle ground, though I guess Fiio pushes the ear gain a bit in case people to use foam.


See below.


assassin10000 said:


> I make my own offset hole ones, lines the sound output up with the ear canal.


----------



## o0genesis0o

assassin10000 said:


> See below.



That's smart. I should try. What is that stick thing?


----------



## assassin10000

o0genesis0o said:


> That's smart. I should try. What is that stick thing?


That's a 'punch' that is used to make the hole. Pictured is 4mm but I now use a 3mm one.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

assassin10000 said:


> That's a 'punch' that is used to make the hole. Pictured is 4mm but I now use a 3mm one.



A leather punch?


----------



## Headcasey MD (Aug 21, 2022)

Got the Smabat M4 today.  First impressions - very good buds.  Pinna gain is present, but tamed.  Excellent sound stage L-R, with a reasonable sense of depth.  I got the gold/black 150 ohm driver with it, and am listening with that now.  Bass is very present and controlled.  Mids seem a bit forward and also the pinna bump.  Treble airy & resolving.  Imaging & detail seem excellent.  Am listening to the Chandos Lutoslawski set, just where the player happened to be, and it is great way to audition new gear.  Slight dryness to counteract the slight coloration.  Quite neutral feeling.  Double foams seem to help with the pinna gain.  Pinna gain, no pain.  Or not much - solo violin can get a bit edgy.  But not much untoward from flutes/piccalo, which are usually the worst.  Puts a burnish on string sections.  Sounds like good headphones.  Bass drum is great, and all percussion.  Good packaging, and a real nice embossed fat case to fit all your modules in.  Very nice silver plated cable, a little rubbery to the feel, but not at all tangle-prone.  No cinch.  Changing drivers feels very solid.  Very impressed so far.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> I guess Fiio pushes the ear gain a bit in case people to use foam.


FiiO knows people will use the foams.  They are smarter than Apple.   Anyone who doesn’t use the foams…..  should use the foams or they wasted their money.


o0genesis0o said:


> Assuming that your graph accurately captures the real life tonality of the ear buds, I would say they are excellent. Something I would buy for sure. Except the bass, I think it traces my preference target closely, down to the dip around 1k and 3k for soundstage depth. A bit sad about the treble though. We need to bump those 15k-up frequencies, 64 Audio TIA style. (Alright, I wouldn't shut up about TIA treble until I get U12t or Trio )


What’s wrong with the bass?  Not enough?  This is a top 10 type bud for bass.  It’s overall better balanced than the FiiO, but I do prefer the FiiO bass by a slight margin.  Both of these have a pleasing midrange character.

I reduced the overall treble intensionally.  I imagine you would do the same if given the choice.  Unfortunately, no bud I’ve measured has the 15k we all crave and I’ve measured more than anyone I know if we are discussing in a meaningful way.  On the grand scheme of things, it’s not actually very important TBH if you believe the last 5 decades of research.  I don’t want to challenge your beliefs as we all know that’s fruitless.  It has some importance, just not very critical by any means.  The FiiO we all love has less.  I bet if you listen to the FiiO and see how it compares to my target, you’ll understand that my target is at worst, good.  You’ve seen these graphs several times….  Any comments and even criticism can easily be addressed.  Please do it in a constructive way though.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Headcasey MD said:


> Got the Smabat M4 today.  First impressions - very good buds.  Pinna gain is present, but tamed.  Excellent sound stage L-R, with a reasonable sense of depth.  I got the gold/black 150 ohm with it, and am listening with that now.  Bass is very present and controlled.  Mids seem a bit forward and also the pinna bump.  Treble airy & resolving.  Imaging & detail seem excellent.  Am listening to the Chandos Lutoslawski set, just where the player happened to be, and it is great way to audition new gear.  Slight dryness to counteract the slight coloration.  Quite neutral feeling.  Double foams seem to help with the pinna gain.  Pinna gain, no pain.  Puts a burnish on string sections.  Sounds like good headphones.  Bass drum is great, and all percussion.  Good packaging, and a real nice embossed fat case to fit all your modules in.  Changing drivers feels very solid.  Very impressed so far.



Nice! I'm looking at these and the Super Ones to audition for my collection. The inly Smabats I have heard before were the M2 Pros which were pretty good actually and the ST-10 (black/gold) which I didn't listen to for very long. The reviews I have read on other Smabat buds/flatheads led me to looking at the M4 and Super One so your review was very timely.

Thanks for the breakdown! I love reading a nice brief, well written synopsis on a pair of buds.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> What’s wrong with the bass? Not enough?



What I was saying is "it matches my target closely, except the bass frequencies", not "the bass is no good". My in-ear target has an unholy amount of sub bass, matching the tuning of three IEMs whose bass I like the most (Z1R, Trio, U12t with M20 module).

Treble wise, I imagine it is not possible to do that targeted 15k boost with a single dynamic driver without messing up the 10-12k. Well, one can dream. I know some tuner criticising 64 Audio TIA treble as uneven and artificial, but my inexperienced ears crave that unnatural treble and its uncanny stereo imaging  



Ronion said:


> On the grand scheme of things, it’s not actually very important TBH if you believe the last 5 decades of research. I don’t want to challenge your beliefs as we all know that’s fruitless. It has some importance, just not very critical by any means. The FiiO we all love has less. I bet if you listen to the FiiO and see how it compares to my target, you’ll understand that my target is at worst, good. You’ve seen these graphs several times…. Any comments and even criticism can easily be addressed. Please do it in a constructive way though.


Duly noted.


----------



## Ronion (Aug 21, 2022)

Headcasey MD said:


> Got the Smabat M4 today.  First impressions - very good buds.  Pinna gain is present, but tamed.  Excellent sound stage L-R, with a reasonable sense of depth.  I got the gold/black 150 ohm with it, and am listening with that now.  Bass is very present and controlled.  Mids seem a bit forward and also the pinna bump.  Treble airy & resolving.  Imaging & detail seem excellent.  Am listening to the Chandos Lutoslawski set, just where the player happened to be, and it is great way to audition new gear.  Slight dryness to counteract the slight coloration.  Quite neutral feeling.  Double foams seem to help with the pinna gain.  Pinna gain, no pain.  Puts a burnish on string sections.  Sounds like good headphones.  Bass drum is great, and all percussion.  Good packaging, and a real nice embossed fat case to fit all your modules in.  Very nice silver plated cable, a little rubbery to the feel, but not at all tangle-prone.  No cinch.  Changing drivers feels very solid.  Very impressed so far.


I always worry about SMABAT’s tuning as the 2 buds I have from them have insane amounts of pinna gain and it starts such a rapid incline.  I wish we could have a standard measurement rig for thread members to compare buds across the planet.  We could know if a bud is going to work for us or not without an audition or a reduction of our cash flow.  SMABAT is a company I always root for because they build some great drivers, but their tuning has been off with the 2 shells I’ve tried from them.  I’m hoping the M4 fixes it.  This is actually a graph of the M2pro (not the ST20 pro) with the LCP driver.  The Blue is the FiiO ff3 with worn bass foams.



Here’s the ST20 pro aka the Ice Pick:


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> The Blue is the FiiO ff5 with worn bass foams.



How'd you get the FF5 already?!?!?! Do you have some secret hookup at Fiio who's shooting you pre-production units? 😜


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> How'd you get the FF5 already?!?!?! Do you have some secret hookup at Fiio who's shooting you pre-production units? 😜


Wishful thinking….LOL. I just fixed it.  I’m writing wrong buds today.


----------



## SBranson

More TGXEar content.. and contentment 

Until recently I have preferred the Tantalus to the Serratus.  But…. My Serratus was a prototype, I guess on of the first ones… it was in 3.5mm, had a different shell and cable.  I now have the production version and it is a marvel.  The bass is insane.  So deep but resolved as well.  The soundstage has great depth and once again, I’m shocked at how an earbud could create such an illusion of space and stage.  I think based on the clean sound and the fullness that this clean extended bass brings, I can say that it has supplanted the Tantalus as my favourite for most genres.
The Tantalus does have a slightly more natural timbre for solo instruments or small groups like a lot of my baroque music or perhaps some quieter piano pieces or even some female vocal/solo guitar.  In those cases I might go with the Tantalus but for my ambient type music or classical crossover music with extended bass and more layered instrumentation, the Serratus is amazing.  The production version seems to have all the clean separation of the prototype but with a fuller midrange tone and an even better bass response.  I think the fuller, more natural timbre, actually, is everywhere which is why the bass is so improved.  
I have this playing right now and it’s sounding great..  Thanks @tgx78


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> Wishful thinking….LOL. I just fixed it.  I’m writing wrong buds today.



Damn, I was gonna see if you could hook me up with a pair!

Seriously though, when I read it my first thought was that it was a typo so I posted that, but then I started having second thoughts like maybe you got a review unit. My OCD-self had to hit Google and confirm that there aren't any FF5 reviews up yet lol! I can be a bit much sometimes...even for myself.


----------



## Chessnaudio

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Thanks man! Basically, our record company asked us if we had an producers in mind that we would like to work with on our new album and we put together a few choices. A couple of the picks we obviously had no real expectation of getting, but one of them got back to the rep at our label and said he's a fan and wants to meet at a studio on Monday and Tuesday to see if we'd all like to work together.
> 
> I'm pretty stoked because the guy is one of the best artist/producers in indie rock for the last 15 years or so. He's kinda legendary for turning out sick records in our style and he has enough demand that he picks who he wants to work with. With many producers it's just a hiring process where your label offers to pay their fee and it's done. This dude has enough money and can work with anyone he wants so it's more of a mutual tryout process. Everyone wants to bring their best stuff to the table so I'm doing so overtime and compiling all the best takes my band has put together of the stuff we're currently working on. Fingers crossed that it works out.


Good luck man! Hope you guys succeed


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Chessnaudio said:


> Good luck man! Hope you guys succeed



Thanks, bro! I really appreciate the support!

I'm looking forward to seeing how it works out. Going through the sessions we have recorded from a few pre-production studio days has made me even more confident. We're firing on all cylinders right now and the material we're working with should make a damn good album with some hard work and the right guy working the board and producing.


----------



## assassin10000

JAnonymous5150 said:


> A leather punch?


It's a set I bought for making holes in gasket material that goes up to 10 or 12mm. Probably can be found as leather punches too.

I did buy a different punch set of amazon that also works. 
https://a.co/d/48Yn48b 


I found it easier to put the punch in my adjustable tap socket and press down into a cutting mat with my hand/palm. No hammer needed to make holes in earbud foam.


----------



## Ronion

This 130 Be bud I just tuned slightly bright definitely has incredible synergy with my Little Bear!  This is probably why there’s still a fetish around high efficiency loudspeakers and tube amps.  This type of system just oozes with warmth and bloom.  The little extra harmonics and compression are just killer.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

assassin10000 said:


> It's a set I bought for making holes in gasket material that goes up to 10 or 12mm. Probably can be found as leather punches too.
> 
> I did buy a different punch set of amazon that also works.
> https://a.co/d/48Yn48b
> ...



Thanks for the detailed reply. I have some leather/vinyl punches I'm going to give this a try with. I like the idea behind it so after I finish up with listening to my band's material I am planning to try making some offset donuts for my ES-P1s.


----------



## mt877

Headcasey MD said:


> Got the Smabat M4 today.  First impressions - very good buds.  Pinna gain is present, but tamed.  Excellent sound stage L-R, with a reasonable sense of depth.  I got the gold/black 150 ohm driver with it, and am listening with that now.  Bass is very present and controlled.  Mids seem a bit forward and also the pinna bump.  Treble airy & resolving.  Imaging & detail seem excellent.  Am listening to the Chandos Lutoslawski set, just where the player happened to be, and it is great way to audition new gear.  Slight dryness to counteract the slight coloration.  Quite neutral feeling.  Double foams seem to help with the pinna gain.  Pinna gain, no pain.  Or not much - solo violin can get a bit edgy.  But not much untoward from flutes/piccalo, which are usually the worst.  Puts a burnish on string sections.  Sounds like good headphones.  Bass drum is great, and all percussion.  Good packaging, and a real nice embossed fat case to fit all your modules in.  Very nice silver plated cable, a little rubbery to the feel, but not at all tangle-prone.  No cinch.  Changing drivers feels very solid.  Very impressed so far.


Thanks for the news and concise review. I was starting to wonder if the M4 was going to ship. Hopefully I'll receive my set soon too. Did they send an email with shipping information or did the M4 arrive at your door without notification?


----------



## mt877

Ronion said:


> This 130 Be bud I just tuned slightly bright definitely has incredible synergy with my Little Bear!  This is probably why there’s still a fetish around high efficiency loudspeakers and tube amps.  This type of system just oozes with warmth and bloom.  The little extra harmonics and compression are just killer.


Little Bear goodness is always a pleasure to listen to. Did you swap out the op-amps or stay with factory TI op-amps?


----------



## yoros

Hello,
I'm a french rookie just beginning to enjoy using flat head earbuds.
My first ones are the FiiO FF3, and I really love their sound.
Following your discussions on Earbuds Round-Up (and something @JAnonymous5150  write somewhere), I bought the ToneKing Dendroaspis Viridis.
I'm happy I did, the are wonderful, specially on vocal baroque music I like.
My question is : does someone have a graph of this Viridis earbuds ?
Thanks. 😉


----------



## o0genesis0o

yoros said:


> vocal baroque music



Baroque has vocal music? I though there are only instrumental and choral works for churches.


----------



## yoros (Aug 21, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Baroque has vocal music? I though there are only instrumental and choral works for churches.


Oh no, there is a lot of baroque vocal music, like arias in the operas and other works of Haendel, Monteverdi, Pergolesi, etc...🙂
You can check these of my favourite singers : Emoke Barath, Jakub Josef Orlinski, Lea Desandre, Philippe Jaroussky, Emmiliano Gonzales Toro, etc....


----------



## o0genesis0o

yoros said:


> Oh no, there is a lot of baroque vocal music, like arias in the operas and other works of Haendel, Monteverdi, Pergolesi, etc...🙂



Monteverdi is baroque??? Oh no, I need to look up music history. 

Oh well, can't help you with the graph, but here I go to Apple Music to search for some baroque vocal works. Thanks for the recommendation


----------



## FranQL

yoros said:


> Hello,
> I'm a french rookie just beginning to enjoy using flat head earbuds.
> My first ones are the FiiO FF3, and I really love their sound.
> Following your discussions on Earbuds Round-Up (and something @JAnonymous5150  write somewhere), I bought the ToneKing Dendroaspis Viridis.
> ...




I have not graphed it, but I do it for you as soon as I can


----------



## yoros

FranQL said:


> I have not graphed it, but I do it for you as soon as I can


Thanks a lot ! 😊


----------



## Ronion

mt877 said:


> Little Bear goodness is always a pleasure to listen to. Did you swap out the op-amps or stay with factory TI op-amps?


I’m still with the factory ones.  Do you have recommendations that will allow me to retain the factory case and don’t cost more than the amp?


----------



## gylyf

All this glowing talk of the FF3 is making it hard to not head to Amazon and pull the trigger. I may do so regardless, but could anyone here who has the FF3 and either the Newbsound 32x or Shozy BK compare those to the FF3? I'm trying to not have too much overlap in terms of sound signatures (and to get out of the Amazon order/return habit if at all possible), so any additional info would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## yaps66

SBranson said:


> More TGXEar content.. and contentment
> 
> Until recently I have preferred the Tantalus to the Serratus.  But…. My Serratus was a prototype, I guess on of the first ones… it was in 3.5mm, had a different shell and cable.  I now have the production version and it is a marvel.  The bass is insane.  So deep but resolved as well.  The soundstage has great depth and once again, I’m shocked at how an earbud could create such an illusion of space and stage.  I think based on the clean sound and the fullness that this clean extended bass brings, I can say that it has supplanted the Tantalus as my favourite for most genres.
> The Tantalus does have a slightly more natural timbre for solo instruments or small groups like a lot of my baroque music or perhaps some quieter piano pieces or even some female vocal/solo guitar.  In those cases I might go with the Tantalus but for my ambient type music or classical crossover music with extended bass and more layered instrumentation, the Serratus is amazing.  The production version seems to have all the clean separation of the prototype but with a fuller midrange tone and an even better bass response.  I think the fuller, more natural timbre, actually, is everywhere which is why the bass is so improved.
> I have this playing right now and it’s sounding great..  Thanks @tgx78



More love for @tgx78! Yay!


----------



## madeyasay

I'm looking at some of the budget buds to try what fits best in my ears, Fengru DIY for example. What's the difference between these 3 items:

1) https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/32851072519.html
2) https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/32759573651.html
3) https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/32805136073.html

For 1 and 2, MX500 is mentioned, while 3 seems to be PK shell, but they look exactly the same to me. Am I missing a detail somewhere? And how come 1 is 50% more expensive than the others?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

assassin10000 said:


> It's a set I bought for making holes in gasket material that goes up to 10 or 12mm. Probably can be found as leather punches too.
> 
> I did buy a different punch set of amazon that also works.
> https://a.co/d/48Yn48b
> ...



In case your interested, I liked how the foams worked with the ES-P1s so much that now you have me experimenting with different hole sizes and even different shapes. I am listening to a pair right now that I made with a 4mm hole, and then use a 2mm, and 1mm overlapping each other to create a tapered oblong shape. So thanks for inspiration! The offset design certainly seems to give an even clearer result than symmetrical foams, while still offering the basic sonic properties that I use donuts for.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

yoros said:


> Hello,
> I'm a french rookie just beginning to enjoy using flat head earbuds.
> My first ones are the FiiO FF3, and I really love their sound.
> Following your discussions on Earbuds Round-Up (and something @JAnonymous5150  write somewhere), I bought the ToneKing Dendroaspis Viridis.
> ...



Hell yeah! Another Viridis convert! They are such an overlooked earbud with absolutely amazing mids and highs aren't they? I'm glad you like them.

I don't have a graph, but if you can't find one I'll see about digging up and assembling rig so I can measure them for you. I probably won't have the time to do it properly until at least Friday and maybe later depending on how my studio time goes. Let me know whether or not you find one


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 21, 2022)

gylyf said:


> All this glowing talk of the FF3 is making it hard to not head to Amazon and pull the trigger. I may do so regardless, but could anyone here who has the FF3 and either the Newbsound 32x or Shozy BK compare those to the FF3? I'm trying to not have too much overlap in terms of sound signatures (and to get out of the Amazon order/return habit if at all possible), so any additional info would be greatly appreciated.



The FF3s and the BKs are quite a bit different. I own and like both so I will do my best to answer succinctly.

First off, the sound signature of the FF3s is not really what's unique about them. It's the absolutely huge and authoritatively powerful presentation that sets them apart from other buds. I have never heard a bud that can match it.

As for sound sig differences, the bass on the BKs is slower with longer decay and not nearly as much punch. The upper mids of the BKs get a bit overbearing on some tracks for me, while the FF3's mids are detailed and fairly even. Both have a slight roll off in the highs, but because of their other sonic attributes the roll off has different effects in each bud. In the FF3s that roll off allows the mids and lows to remain the focus and keep their massive presentation. In the BKs the roll off is to give the buds an overall laid back and low key presentation.

I can't imagine anyone thinking that the FF3s and BKs are very similar, let alone similar enough to have a problem with owning both. Just my two cents.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 21, 2022)

madeyasay said:


> I'm looking at some of the budget buds to try what fits best in my ears, Fengru DIY for example. What's the difference between these 3 items:
> 
> 1) https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/32851072519.html
> 2) https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/32759573651.html
> ...



All of those are MX500 shells. The one that says PK in the ads title just says that to capture searches I would imagine because PK is a popular earbud search term. The one that's more expensive appears to be so because the cable used is silver or silver plated. I have the Fengru DIY EMX500 (The second and middle link) and I like it quite a bit. It's a nice earbud. I haven't tried the others.


----------



## madeyasay

JAnonymous5150 said:


> All of those are MX500 shells. The one that says PK in the ads title just says that to capture searches I would imagine because PK is a popular earbud search term. The one that's more expensive appears to be so because the cable used is silver or silver plated. I have the Fengru DIY EMX500 (The second and middle link) and I like it quite a bit. It's a nice earbud. I haven't tried the others.


Ahh, thought so. Thank you!


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> I’m still with the factory ones.  Do you have recommendations that will allow me to retain the factory case and don’t cost more than the amp?


I don't know if you remember @ miserybeforethemusic or not, but he had the Little Bear and John (Burson) sent him some of these as an upgrade for his. He said he REALLY liked them, they are 1:1 and are something like $49. Also it didn't seem to mess with the slew rate or any other aspect (that he noticed). I can't vouch for the validity of how well they do, but just thought I would mention the option (from my memory banks).


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> The FF3s and the BKs are quite a bit different. I own and like both so I will do my best to answer succinctly.
> 
> First off, the sound signature of the FF3s is not really what's unique about them. It's the absolutely huge and authoritatively powerful presentation that sets them apart from other buds. I have never heard a bud that can match it.
> 
> ...


If I were to describe the FF3 in the fewest words possible, it wouldn’t sound much different than this.  We should make this a reference post for future inquiries in a signature or something like Woody does.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> I don't know if you remember @ miserybeforethemusic or not, but he had the Little Bear and John (Burson) sent him some of these as an upgrade for his. He said he REALLY liked them, they are 1:1 and are something like $49. Also it didn't seem to mess with the slew rate or any other aspect (that he noticed). I can't vouch for the validity of how well they do, but just thought I would mention the option (from my memory banks).


Misery was my dude back in the day.  Wish he’d make his way back.  Top shelf individual.  I’ll check those out!  Thanks @samandhi !  Good looking out brother.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Misery was my dude back in the day.  Wish he’d make his way back.  Top shelf individual.  I’ll check those out!  Thanks @samandhi !  Good looking out brother.


I feel the same and miss him quite a bit. I doubt he will be back any time soon though; the "elitist behavior" that Head-Fi used to be known for (and still has in varying amounts) sort of turned him off to this place. It was toxic to his well-being (the few bad seeds ruined if for him). But I still talk to him now and again, and he is doing very well (last time I spoke with him).


----------



## mt877

Ronion said:


> I’m still with the factory ones.  Do you have recommendations that will allow me to retain the factory case and don’t cost more than the amp?


There's really nothing wrong with the factory Ti NE5532P amps, especially with the circuit as designed. I put in some expensive OP8802 discrete op amps and the sound was great but removed them because the OP8802 would intermittently oscillate (due to the on board circuit design). I put in cheap but well regarded LME49720 amps which are basically an improved NE5532P, so work well with the circuit design as is. I got them at mouser.com for less then $4.00 each (not including shipping and tax).

I also tried some MUSES02 amps because I had some on hand, but didn't like how they sounded. I think to get the best out of the MUSES02 the circuit needs to be designed with the MUSES02 in mind. Others on head-fi like the Burson V5i with the Little Bear and there's a few glowing head-fi reviews of the Burson with the Little Bear. The Burson's aren't terribly expensive for a pair and fit the Little Bear without case mods. Maybe I'll get some Burson's in the future, but the LME49720's are doing a good job right now.


----------



## assassin10000

JAnonymous5150 said:


> In case your interested, I liked how the foams worked with the ES-P1s so much that now you have me experimenting with different hole sizes and even different shapes. I am listening to a pair right now that I made with a 4mm hole, and then use a 2mm, and 1mm overlapping each other to create a tapered oblong shape. So thanks for inspiration! The offset design certainly seems to give an even clearer result than symmetrical foams, while still offering the basic sonic properties that I use donuts for.



Exactly. It gives a mix of both full and donut foams, when you want to get somewhere between the two.

I originally decided to try them due to the donut foams provided with the Ourart ACG being mostly blocked by the center of the driver cover. I also noticed most driver covers have a blocked center. So the offset both allows a more straight shot from the driver for the sound waves, as well as allowing you to align it with your ear canal to provide more surface area to seal against the concha/helix/antihelix.

I typically don't even use regular donut foams anymore. Either medium/light full foams or offset donuts for everything.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> If I were to describe the FF3 in the fewest words possible, it wouldn’t sound much different than this.  We should make this a reference post for future inquiries in a signature or something like Woody does.



Do it bro!


----------



## yoros

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hell yeah! Another Viridis convert! They are such an overlooked earbud with absolutely amazing mids and highs aren't they? I'm glad you like them.
> 
> I don't have a graph, but if you can't find one I'll see about digging up and assembling rig so I can measure them for you. I probably won't have the time to do it properly until at least Friday and maybe later depending on how my studio time goes. Let me know whether or not you find one


@FranQL said he will do it when he has time. I suppose he'll post it here. And thanks to you for leading me to discover Viridis 😊


----------



## mt877 (Aug 21, 2022)

Just wanted to say that I'm gonna do the foam measurements again. I dug up a film densitometer in my camera gear and can accurately measure the single layer of earbud foams. The numbers will be different as compared to the original measurements, but hopefully will be more accurate and useful. I especially want to revisit the FF3 balanced and bass foams and see if the trending is different.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> I don't know if you remember @ miserybeforethemusic or not, but he had the Little Bear and John (Burson) sent him some of these as an upgrade for his. He said he REALLY liked them, they are 1:1 and are something like $49. Also it didn't seem to mess with the slew rate or any other aspect (that he noticed). I can't vouch for the validity of how well they do, but just thought I would mention the option (from my memory banks).



I don't have the Little Bear, but I have several amps and combos that I swap OpAmps in and it's hard to beat the Burson OpAmp of your choice. They're pretty modestly priced and damn good on top of it. My Timekeeper 3i (and I'm sure other models I don't have) shipped with one set installed and an alternate set ready to go for those wanting to experiement. I like rolling Ops in general, but you can't go wrong with a Burson.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Just wanted to say that I'm gonna do the foam measurements again. I dug up a film densitometer in my camera gear and can accurately measure the single layer of earbud foams. The numbers will be different as compared to the original measurements, but hopefully will be more accurate and useful. I especially want to revisit the FF3 balanced and bass foams and see if the trending is different.


I would also be interested in seeing those measurements, but could you throw in the "crisp" measurements also if it's not too much trouble?

I think maybe (at least where the FF3 is concerned) we should not call them foams. Maybe we should just call them "filters" because of how much they change the sound... lol My IT-07 come with "tuning filters" that screw into the nozzle, and I can say that while they DO change the sound, they don't as much as simple foams do with the FF3... I am still in awe of this BTW (if you couldn't tell).


----------



## samandhi

A blast from the past. This song sounds really good on the FF3. You can (distinctly) hear the separation from the bass guitar, electric synth, and bass drum. Though, I haven't listened to the YT version as it is lower quality.

Amazon:
https://music.amazon.com/albums/B00F6X6VYA?trackAsin=B00F6X6WR6&ref=dm_sh_3793-5e5e-7d79-ab93-d4c63

YouTube:


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> A blast from the past. This song sounds really good on the FF3. You can (distinctly) hear the separation from the bass guitar, electric synth, and bass drum. Though, I haven't listened to the YT version as it is lower quality.
> 
> Amazon:
> https://music.amazon.com/albums/B00F6X6VYA?trackAsin=B00F6X6WR6&ref=dm_sh_3793-5e5e-7d79-ab93-d4c63
> ...




I will have to give this a listen a little later on when I have the FF3s on. If you'd like to try something I was really enjoying on them last night check out Rogrigo y Gabriela. They have a new album out called Mettavolution that Qobuz has in hi-res and even though it has no drums the FF3s make the dueling guitars sound so meaty and big that I found myself really diggin' the whole vibe. It was a pleasant reminder of just how sweet that mid-range presence is. It also reminded me of the fact that the FF3 is no one trick pony!


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I will have to give this a listen a little later on when I have the FF3s on. If you'd like to try something I was really enjoying on them last night check out Rogrigo y Gabriela. They have a new album out called Mettavolution that Qobuz has in hi-res and even though it has no drums the FF3s make the dueling guitars sound so meaty and big that I found myself really diggin' the whole vibe. It was a pleasant reminder of just how sweet that mid-range presence is. It also reminded me of the fact that the FF3 is no one trick pony!


So, I am not sure of which song you were referring to on this album, but they are all pretty similar except having a different tune (which is not a bad thing in this case). I like the sound of having a(n) (12 string??) acoustic guitar along with either an unamped or "clean" electric guitar playing to each other. For the FF3 this also reveals the 2nd harmonic in the treble area (especially the electric guitar) and sounds really good. 

This music actually reminds me a lot of that fella's music style from a couple years ago (a very unique sound to it).


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> I would also be interested in seeing those measurements, but could you throw in the "crisp" measurements also if it's not too much trouble?
> 
> I think maybe (at least where the FF3 is concerned) we should not call them foams. Maybe we should just call them "filters" because of how much they change the sound... lol My IT-07 come with "tuning filters" that screw into the nozzle, and I can say that while they DO change the sound, they don't as much as simple foams do with the FF3... I am still in awe of this BTW (if you couldn't tell).


Yep, I'll get the crisp donut foams in the next measurements.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Yep, I'll get the crisp donut foams in the next measurements.


Awesome! Thanks very much.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> So, I am not sure of which song you were referring to on this album, but they are all pretty similar except having a different tune (which is not a bad thing in this case). I like the sound of having a(n) (12 string??) acoustic guitar along with either an unamped or "clean" electric guitar playing to each other. For the FF3 this also reveals the 2nd harmonic in the treble area (especially the electric guitar) and sounds really good.
> 
> This music actually reminds me a lot of that fella's music style from a couple years ago (a very unique sound to it).




I was just talking about the whole album in general. I have like Rodrigo y Gabriela's stuff for a while now. If you liked it, take a look at their other albums. Each one has its own flavor and they have gone through a pretty wide range of sounds throughout their discography.

I have never seen/heard or heard of the dude in the video before. Very interesting!


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I was just talking about the whole album in general. I have like Rodrigo y Gabriela's stuff for a while now. If you liked it, take a look at their other albums. Each one has its own flavor and they have gone through a pretty wide range of sounds throughout their discography.
> 
> I have never seen/heard or heard of the dude in the video before. Very interesting!


I have already begun listening to some of their other stuff. Thanks for the rec. 

Yeah, he was runner-up on American Idol a couple (or few, don't remember) years ago. But that wasn't really the important part I suppose, it is the style of music he does that is similar in style (very talented guitar player). Almost like the "Eddie Van Halen" of the acoustic guitar (is more than good, experiments with the sounds, etc...). Anyhow, he put out like 21 songs in 2021 (pretty much all as singles LOL) like this one (though it looks like producers have made him focus more on his voice, and the band, rather than his playing which is what I was alluding to):

Amazon:
https://music.amazon.com/albums/B09C1BKSGZ?trackAsin=B09C1D3CFX&ref=dm_sh_fd72-b505-d4bc-2cb1-6182f

YouTube:


----------



## gylyf

JAnonymous5150 said:


> The FF3s and the BKs are quite a bit different. I own and like both so I will do my best to answer succinctly.
> 
> First off, the sound signature of the FF3s is not really what's unique about them. It's the absolutely huge and authoritatively powerful presentation that sets them apart from other buds. I have never heard a bud that can match it.
> 
> ...


Cheers! I really appreciate your taking the time to write all that up. 👍🏼


----------



## JAnonymous5150

gylyf said:


> Cheers! I really appreciate your taking the time to write all that up. 👍🏼



No problem! I hope it helps you out.


----------



## samandhi

BTW, one foolproof track to use to test if your buds are boosted in the pina gain region too much (or your ears are sensitive to that area) is to listen to the OG version of Ozzy Osbourne - Crazy Train. Especially in the chorus, it is super shouty and right in that region. You can't really use the "remastered" version because apparently, they heard it too and softened it up quite a bit. I just listened to both versions, and it is pretty noticeable.

Or you could do it the *non-fun* way (I suppose) and use an Online Tone Generator. 

Edit: Though anything from Greta Van Fleet, or Alice In Chains, etc... will work as well.


----------



## christianfps

Finally my FF3s are gonna be delivered today! Really excited to go home from work haha!


----------



## samandhi

christianfps said:


> Finally my FF3s are gonna be delivered today! Really excited to go home from work haha!


Congrats on your new shiny (and these really are shiny)....   

Hope you enjoy them as much as others here have been?! Let us know what you think when you have gotten some time on them?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> BTW, one foolproof track to use to test if your buds are boosted in the pina gain region too much (or your ears are sensitive to that area) is to listen to the OG version of Ozzy Osbourne - Crazy Train. Especially in the chorus, it is super shouty and right in that region. You can't really use the "remastered" version because apparently, they heard it too and softened it up quite a bit. I just listened to both versions, and it is pretty noticeable.
> 
> Or you could do it the *non-fun* way (I suppose) and use an Online Tone Generator.
> 
> Edit: Though anything from Greta Van Fleet, or Alice In Chains, etc... will work as well.



Off topic, but my band and I played a 3 day festival that Greta Van Fleet played as well and those dudes are on one serious hippy trip lol! They're cool enough guys and all, but they're almost commically hippie-esque. Hanging out with them is a bit like watching a sitcom where the plot revolves around some crazy friends who think it's still the late 60s/early 70s. 

They pretty talented though. Especially their lead singer. Dude has some pipes and he can actually sing which is unfortunately a rare enough talent in any genre in these days of the "auto-tune it away" philosophy.

For topical content, I am finally getting a little break to sit down and try some new buds. I just plugged in the Yinman 600s about 20 minutes ago and these are without a doubt the most power hungry and difficult to drive earbuds ever. I have or have had two other 600 ohm pairs that were significantly easier to drive because these have the added difficulty of being inefficient/insensitive. I haven't crunched any numbers, but my guess is that they are even more inefficient than the numbers quotes by the maker.

Obviously, I need to listen longer before I write up my first impressions...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

christianfps said:


> Finally my FF3s are gonna be delivered today! Really excited to go home from work haha!



You should be excited! Congratulations on the new FF3s! Make sure you let us know what you think of them.


----------



## syazwaned

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Off topic, but my band and I played a 3 day festival that Greta Van Fleet played as well and those dudes are on one serious hippy trip lol! They're cool enough guys and all, but they're almost commically hippie-esque. Hanging out with them is a bit like watching a sitcom where the plot revolves around some crazy friends who think it's still the late 60s/early 70s.
> 
> They pretty talented though. Especially their lead singer. Dude has some pipes and he can actually sing which is unfortunately a rare enough talent in any genre in these days of the "auto-tune it away" philosophy.
> 
> ...


can ifi gryphon drive yinman 600?


----------



## rkw

o0genesis0o said:


> Monteverdi is baroque??? Oh no, I need to look up music history.


I think of Monteverdi's music as pre-baroque in style. His biography on Qobuz describes him as between the Renaissance and baroque eras.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> BTW, one foolproof track to use to test if your buds are boosted in the pina gain region too much (or your ears are sensitive to that area) is to listen to the OG version of Ozzy Osbourne - Crazy Train. Especially in the chorus, it is super shouty and right in that region. You can't really use the "remastered" version because apparently, they heard it too and softened it up quite a bit. I just listened to both versions, and it is pretty noticeable.
> 
> Or you could do it the *non-fun* way (I suppose) and use an Online Tone Generator.
> 
> Edit: Though anything from Greta Van Fleet, or Alice In Chains, etc... will work as well.


I was just using this track today to test my latest build because it’s 2dB over target through the pinna/presence region.  Which is partly why I consider it bright/neutral.  It’s also about the same distance under target in the bass.  Someone was recently inquiring about a recommendation with this exact signature but I can’t remember who.  I would definitely recommend my latest build for that signature.  I’m loving it and you can probably tell that I’m picky.  Most people wouldn’t care about 1-2dB off target if they have a target that specific.  Well, these pass for sure. It’s what I would call tastefully bright.  It’s positively dull next to the SMABATs I’ve heard barring the 14.2 bio.  It actually seems like it might be doing exactly what the FiiO did: as the foams get used, the pinna gain decreases and the bass deepens.  I may be crazy however and my brain may be adjusting to them, but I’ll test it in a couple days to be certain.  These two buds compliment each other really well: the FiiO warm/neutral, the 130Be bright/neutral.  Both with above average bass (FiiO more prominent), and great midrange.  The biggest difference is that one is mildly hot in the treble, the other one moderately dull.  Very good drivers in both and they are both all day/night listenable.  The MX500 is much lighter in the ear, but both fit very well.


----------



## samandhi (Aug 22, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Off topic, but my band and I played a 3 day festival that Greta Van Fleet played as well and those dudes are on one serious hippy trip lol! They're cool enough guys and all, but they're almost commically hippie-esque. Hanging out with them is a bit like watching a sitcom where the plot revolves around some crazy friends who think it's still the late 60s/early 70s.
> 
> They pretty talented though. Especially their lead singer. Dude has some pipes and he can actually sing which is unfortunately a rare enough talent in any genre in these days of the "auto-tune it away" philosophy.
> 
> ...


Yeah we were thinking more on the lines of 90-93 dB/mW rather than the advertised 95.


syazwaned said:


> can ifi gryphon drive yinman 600?


Yes it can, but it has been my experience that they sound better with even more power.

Technically speaking the numbers needed to drive them would look something like:

32 mW
4.36 Vrms
7.3 mA
This is to drive them to a whopping 110dB.

The Gryphon is capable of 6.7Vrms (though we don't know the current, it is more than likely fine).


----------



## WoodyLuvr

JAnonymous5150 said:


> For topical content, I am finally getting a little break to sit down and try some new buds. I just plugged in the Yinman 600s about 20 minutes ago and these are without a doubt the most power hungry and difficult to drive earbuds ever. I have or have had two other 600 ohm pairs that were significantly easier to drive because these have the added difficulty of being inefficient/insensitive. I haven't crunched any numbers, but my guess is that they are even more inefficient than the numbers quotes by the maker.
> 
> Obviously, I need to listen longer before I write up my first impressions...





samandhi said:


> Yeah we were thinking more on the lines of 90-93 dB/mW rather than the advertised 95.


Concur, I really do believe that these Yinmans are probably closer to 90-91dB/mW in sensitivity rather than their listed 95dB/mW.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> *I was just using this track today to test my latest build because it’s 2dB over target through the pinna/presence region. * Which is partly why I consider it bright/neutral.  It’s also about the same distance under target in the bass.  Someone was recently inquiring about a recommendation with this exact signature but I can’t remember who.  I would definitely recommend my latest build for that signature.  I’m loving it and you can probably tell that I’m picky.  Most people wouldn’t care about 1-2dB off target if they have a target that specific.  Well, these pass for sure. It’s what I would call tastefully bright.  It’s positively dull next to the SMABATs I’ve heard barring the 14.2 bio.  It actually seems like it might be doing exactly what the FiiO did: as the foams get used, the pinna gain decreases and the bass deepens.  I may be crazy however and my brain may be adjusting to them, but I’ll test it in a couple days to be certain.  These two buds compliment each other really well: the FiiO warm/neutral, the 130Be bright/neutral.  Both with above average bass (FiiO more prominent), and great midrange.  The biggest difference is that one is mildly hot in the treble, the other one moderately dull.  Very good drivers in both and they are both all day/night listenable.  The MX500 is much lighter in the ear, but both fit very well.


I guess great minds think alike?! 

I know I have talked a lot about buds having bass and all that good stuff, but I really prefer a neutral tuning (with a tad of bass boost to keep them from being boring sounding)....  Having said that, with driver coatings getting better and better, I am sort of digging some of the yummy bass that contemporary buds/IEMs throw out. One of my "guilty pleasures" has been the CCA CRA and CRA+. 

I wonder if you can easily extract the drivers from the new modular M4 drivers, or have they become too expensive to even bother? I haven't even looked at this option since they discontinued the M2S Pro drivers (I think I got the last of both the 32 bio, and the 150Ti drivers).


----------



## o0genesis0o

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur, I really do believe that these Yinmans are probably closer to 90-91dB/mW in sensitivity rather than their listed 95dB/mW.



The insane amount of power needed to run these buds further show that ear buds are more similar to full size cans than IEMs


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> The insane amount of power needed to run these buds further show that ear buds are more similar to full size cans than IEMs


Yeah, but here is the thing about the Yinman 2.0 that goes against the science. They can be driven to pretty loud levels from something like 2Vrms. I know, because I tried it on my tube amp and one jack is 2Vrms and the other is 4Vrms.

Having said that, and in case you weren't around to see it in my impressions, it *was *pretty loud, but it was also pretty flat, the bass was *very *flabby, and there was almost no separation.

Edit: Comparatively speaking, of course...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

syazwaned said:


> can ifi gryphon drive yinman 600?



Yes. The Gryphon has quite a bit of muscle behind it and it gets far too loud before I get anywhere near full volume. The Yinmans also sound quite full and warm so I would imagine the Gryphon is doing a decent job of pulling good performance out of them as well. That said, I haven't done any comparisons to see how it scales up with my Burson or other more powerful amps because I am trying to stick with the Gryphon for consistency's sake for these first impressions posts. The Gryphon, as you probably know, is one of the more powerful portable combos out there. What you may not know is that I have had good luck with the Gryphon not just driving high impedance transducers to loud volumes, but also getting them to fill out and sound/perform the way a well driven transducer should.

I'm interested to see how they scale with the Burson et al nonetheless, but I think most people would find the job the Gryphon is doing to be far more than adequate.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I haven't done any comparisons to see how it scales up with my Burson or other more powerful amps because I am trying to stick with the Gryphon for consistency's sake for these first impressions posts.


Oh, you'll see..    IME it is very noticeable going up just 1W. But I digress, and I don't want to poison your first impressions/thoughts on them before you get started. I'll shuddup' till' you are done.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur, I really do believe that these Yinmans are probably closer to 90-91dB/mW in sensitivity rather than their listed 95dB/mW.



I think you're right. I would guess lower than 93 so I think 90 to 91 is about right. Just based on the increased power consumption versus a pair of custom buds I have on loan from a friend that measure 600ohms and 96dB/mW according to their maker.


----------



## mt877

Ok guys, made new measurements with a different measuring tool. I used a film densitometer which is used to accurately measure the density of the latent image after silver halide crystals are exposed to light and chemically processed on photographic film. Using this principle a density measurement of porous foam can be performed as well.

Measuring method: Black foams were measured. The point source of light and the detector was approx. 1mm which allowed accurate measurement of a single layer of foam through the hole of a full foam. For the FF3 crisp donut foam I had to measure between the through holes and outer edge of the foam and then divide by 2 to get a single layer density figure. The FF3 single layer foam density for all 3 (balanced, bass and crisp) were all within the same relative range. It's easy to understand how the crisp donut foam would affect treble response. The values measured for the balanced and bass foams is essentially equal. It could be that the foams I received were mixed up or put in the wrong bag during the packaging process. Although the measurement numbers are different than what I posted before, it is easy to see that the previous measurement using a different methodology and the current measurements follow the same general trend.

As before the VE foam measurements split into 3 different densities, thin, medium and thick. By backlighting the VE foams it was pretty easy to see that the thin foams were more porous and allowed more light to filter through, the same for the medium foams versus the thick foams. The VE foam sets also included colored foams which I did measure, but am not including because foams of different colors filter light differently than black foams and the numbers would be confusing. Just as an example a thick white foam measured at .65, while a thick black foam measured at 1.59. This is not to say that colored foams can't be measured accurately. All the thick white foams measured around .65 +/- .10. It's just a matter of establishing a baseline.

How to understand the data set: Lower the number = lower foam density (more light passed through). Higher the number = higher foam density (less light passed through).

This time around I sorted the results from lowest to highest density measurements.



FF3 Balanced​FF3 Bass​FF3 Crisp​VE Black​HieGi Black​1.34​1.31​1.29​0.82​1.41​1.39​1.32​1.48​0.85​1.49​1.44​1.36​1.49​0.93​1.51​1.44​1.42​1.51​0.93​1.51​1.46​1.44​1.54​0.94​1.52​1.46​1.46​1.55​0.95​1.52​1.51​1.46​1.55​0.98​1.59​1.53​1.46​1.56​0.98​1.6​1.56​1.49​1.58​1​1.66​1.56​1.49​1.59​1.03​1.66​1.6​1.51​​1.07​1.7​1.62​1.51​​1.1​1.7​​​​1.1​​​​​1.12​​​​​1.13​​​​​1.14​​​​​1.16​​​​​1.2​​​​​1.54​​​​​1.59​​​​​1.61​​​​​1.76​​


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> Ok guys, made new measurements with a different measuring tool. I used a film densitometer which is used to accurately measure the density of the latent image after silver halide crystals are exposed to light and chemically processed on photographic film. Using this principle a density measurement of porous foam can be performed as well.
> 
> Measuring method: Black foams were measured. The point source of light and the detector was approx. 1mm which allowed accurate measurement of a single layer of foam through the hole of a full foam. For the FF3 crisp donut foam I had to measure between the through holes and outer edge of the foam and then divide by 2 to get a single layer density figure. The FF3 single layer foam density for all 3 (balanced, bass and crisp) were all within the same relative range. It's easy to understand how the crisp donut foam would affect treble response. The values measured for the balanced and bass foams is essentially equal. It could be that the foams I received were mixed up or put in the wrong bag during the packaging process. Although the measurement numbers are different than what I posted before, it is easy to see that the previous measurement using a different methodology and the current measurements follow the same general trend.
> 
> ...



Damn, bro! Talk about puttin' in work! 🤘


----------



## syazwaned

mt877 said:


> Ok guys, made new measurements with a different measuring tool. I used a film densitometer which is used to accurately measure the density of the latent image after silver halide crystals are exposed to light and chemically processed on photographic film. Using this principle a density measurement of porous foam can be performed as well.
> 
> Measuring method: Black foams were measured. The point source of light and the detector was approx. 1mm which allowed accurate measurement of a single layer of foam through the hole of a full foam. For the FF3 crisp donut foam I had to measure between the through holes and outer edge of the foam and then divide by 2 to get a single layer density figure. The FF3 single layer foam density for all 3 (balanced, bass and crisp) were all within the same relative range. It's easy to understand how the crisp donut foam would affect treble response. The values measured for the balanced and bass foams is essentially equal. It could be that the foams I received were mixed up or put in the wrong bag during the packaging process. Although the measurement numbers are different than what I posted before, it is easy to see that the previous measurement using a different methodology and the current measurements follow the same general trend.
> 
> ...


this is just awesome work


----------



## samandhi (Aug 22, 2022)

mt877 said:


> Ok guys, made new measurements with a different measuring tool. I used a film densitometer which is used to accurately measure the density of the latent image after silver halide crystals are exposed to light and chemically processed on photographic film. Using this principle a density measurement of porous foam can be performed as well.
> 
> Measuring method: Black foams were measured. The point source of light and the detector was approx. 1mm which allowed accurate measurement of a single layer of foam through the hole of a full foam. For the FF3 crisp donut foam I had to measure between the through holes and outer edge of the foam and then divide by 2 to get a single layer density figure. The FF3 single layer foam density for all 3 (balanced, bass and crisp) were all within the same relative range. It's easy to understand how the crisp donut foam would affect treble response. The values measured for the balanced and bass foams is essentially equal. It could be that the foams I received were mixed up or put in the wrong bag during the packaging process. Although the measurement numbers are different than what I posted before, it is easy to see that the previous measurement using a different methodology and the current measurements follow the same general trend.
> 
> ...


So, based on your measurements the averages and variances are as follows:

Balanced = 1.4825
Variance = .28
Bass = 1.4358
Variance = .20
Crisp = 1.514
Variance = .30
Heigi = 1.5725
Variance = .29
VE Black = 1.1331
Variance = .94
Edit: Damned fine work BTW!


----------



## yaps66

mt877 said:


> Ok guys, made new measurements with a different measuring tool. I used a film densitometer which is used to accurately measure the density of the latent image after silver halide crystals are exposed to light and chemically processed on photographic film. Using this principle a density measurement of porous foam can be performed as well.
> 
> Measuring method: Black foams were measured. The point source of light and the detector was approx. 1mm which allowed accurate measurement of a single layer of foam through the hole of a full foam. For the FF3 crisp donut foam I had to measure between the through holes and outer edge of the foam and then divide by 2 to get a single layer density figure. The FF3 single layer foam density for all 3 (balanced, bass and crisp) were all within the same relative range. It's easy to understand how the crisp donut foam would affect treble response. The values measured for the balanced and bass foams is essentially equal. It could be that the foams I received were mixed up or put in the wrong bag during the packaging process. Although the measurement numbers are different than what I posted before, it is easy to see that the previous measurement using a different methodology and the current measurements follow the same general trend.
> 
> ...


Thanks! Over and beyond!


----------



## FranQL

yoros said:


> @FranQL said he will do it when he has time. I suppose he'll post it here. And thanks to you for leading me to discover Viridis 😊



Here it is


----------



## yoros

FranQL said:


> Here it is


Thanks a lot @FranQL 🙏


----------



## christianfps

Hi! So I'm listening to the FF3s now for a while now. Please mind my terms since I'm still a newbie haha! I think I'm still adjusting since I haven't used earbuds for years now.

First Impressions:

Coming from a Hifiman HE400SE and Tanchjim Ola, I find the FF3 darker? By the way I'm using it with my FX Audio DAC-X6. Tried using them without foams and the left one always keeps getting loose so I tried the bass, crisp and balanced in that order. Easily fixed the fitment issues. I'm really not very adept with music so I'll try to explain it from a gamer's standpoint. I mainly play FPS, Valorant and Apex alike. For me hearing sound cues are very critical, it's a matter of winning or losing the game. I've had much success with the Olas coz for the price they gave a wide enough sound stage and quite accurate imaging, giving me that extra information for anticipation. The HE400SE was too open that sometimes I don't hear enemies going past me. One of the reasons I sold it haha!

So far I'm liking the FF3s it is more accurate and detailed than my OLAs plus a bigger soundstage. I don't notice that much verticality though. The out of the box tuning for me is something I need to get used to so I'll try the different foams for a few days before I dabble with EQ to bring up the Highs to my liking. For isolation it's like between a head phone and an IEM so it's good for me. 

That's for my Day 1 with the FF3s

Thank you!


----------



## o0genesis0o (Aug 22, 2022)

christianfps said:


> Hi! So I'm listening to the FF3s now for a while now. Please mind my terms since I'm still a newbie haha! I think I'm still adjusting since I haven't used earbuds for years now.
> 
> First Impressions:
> 
> ...



So, my recommendation has not been a train-wreck? (Wait, are you the one who asked me about FF3 for gaming on Reddit?)

My left side is also looser than the right side. It does not matter, actually. The left side never falls off even when I walk around, and I did not hear channel imbalance either, so I leave it alone.

If you want to add some height to the stage, you can try EQ a peak around 15kHz with Q1.0 or 1.5.

I think FF3 is warmer rather than darker than OLA. The Tanchjim IEM does not enough have low end of offset the ear-gain, which I assume a deliberate choice to make the soundstage feel larger.


----------



## christianfps

o0genesis0o said:


> So, my recommendation has not been a train-wreck? (Wait, are you the one who asked me about FF3 for gaming on Reddit?)


No man I appreciate the FF3s, it's just new to me hahaha! It's pretty accurate to my liking!



o0genesis0o said:


> I think FF3 is warmer rather than darker than OLA. The Tanchjim IEM does not enough have low end of offset the ear-gain, which I assume a deliberate choice to make the soundstage feel larger.


Yeah I think I still mix things a lot with the terminologies but yeah warmer is the right word for it!


----------



## Buchi (Aug 22, 2022)

Has anyone measured the Smabat ST-20 against M2S Pro with the super point driver?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

christianfps said:


> Hi! So I'm listening to the FF3s now for a while now. Please mind my terms since I'm still a newbie haha! I think I'm still adjusting since I haven't used earbuds for years now.
> 
> First Impressions:
> 
> ...



Interesting. I don't game hardly at all aside from the occasional game on my phone so I have never tried the FF3s for gaming and hadn't heard anyone discuss their performance during play. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on that.

Do you intend to use them exclusively for gaming or are you planning on giving music a shot through your FF3s as well?


----------



## drewbadour

Well I jumped right into the deep end (hopefully end game achieved)
tgxear Serratus, RikuBuds Saber 1 and Lancer 1 ordered  
Now to find a source that will do them justice...


----------



## ian91

drewbadour said:


> Well I jumped right into the deep end (hopefully end game achieved)
> tgxear Serratus, RikuBuds Saber 1 and Lancer 1 ordered
> Now to find a source that will do them justice...



Megatron pairs very well with Serratus in my experience!


----------



## ttorbic

ian91 said:


> Megatron pairs very well with Serratus in my experience!


Just wondering, do you know the output power of the Megatron? Their website says 300 mW for the BAL, but reviewers often say 600? 

Or has anyone measured the output?


----------



## samandhi

ttorbic said:


> Just wondering, do you know the output power of the Megatron? Their website says 300 mW for the BAL, but reviewers often say 600?
> 
> Or has anyone measured the output?


Granted I have only looked at 2 or 3 reviews, but all of those say 300mW @32ohms and 40mW @300ohms.


----------



## ttorbic

Yes that's what I've seen on the VE website, but this reviewer for example stated 630 mW, maybe he assumed 300 mW was SE?


----------



## ian91 (Aug 22, 2022)

ttorbic said:


> Just wondering, do you know the output power of the Megatron? Their website says 300 mW for the BAL, but reviewers often say 600?
> 
> Or has anyone measured the output?



Not entirely sure but it strikes a good balance between power/portability for high impedance sets up to about 150/300ohms in my experience. The sound leans warm and fits well with the leaner Serratus signature. 

I'm still on the look out for a more powerful portable source, however.


----------



## samandhi

ttorbic said:


> Yes that's what I've seen on the VE website, but this reviewer for example stated 630 mW, maybe he assumed 300 mW was SE?



Or maybe like a lot of DAPs where they give X + X or in this case 300mW + 300mW he was assuming that is what they did. 

SE is shown as 170mW.

Either way I don't think that VE's math is right anyhow because they state balanced out as 4.9Vrms which would actually be 750mW @32ohms. And SE is stated as 2.4Vrms which is actually 180mW @32ohms. So if they at least have their Vrms correct then we know that it puts out more power (at least) for 32ohms. 

So, balanced output for 300ohms would be 80mW. Hope that helps some?!


----------



## drewbadour

Is there a BT solution anyone recommends? I'm looking into the Topping G5 right now but if anyone has any (cheaper) suggestions, that'd be great!

Currently I only have Qudelix 5K (can drive on balanced output but not sure if it will bring out the full potential) and UTWS5 (definitely cannot drive I think)


----------



## samandhi (Aug 22, 2022)

drewbadour said:


> Is there a BT solution anyone recommends? I'm looking into the Topping G5 right now but if anyone has any (cheaper) suggestions, that'd be great!
> 
> Currently I only have Qudelix 5K (can drive on balanced output but not sure if it will bring out the full potential) and UTWS5 (definitely cannot drive I think)


I don't know what the G5 costs but have you looked at the iFi Go Blue. It is $199 and looks to put out up to 5.6Vrms which is pretty insane (almost 1W @32ohms) for its absolute tiny size.


----------



## BCool

Has anyone tried out these silicone hybrid-type tips on their buds? Seems like a good compromise between getting an IEM seal and consistent fit without having to go fully into the ear canal.


----------



## samandhi

BCool said:


> Has anyone tried out these silicone hybrid-type tips on their buds? Seems like a good compromise between getting an IEM seal and consistent fit without having to go fully into the ear canal.


I am not sure those would fit on flathead buds. Those were meant for the "freebies" that used to come with Samsung phones (they still might, I am not sure).

Having said that, I might break out a pair and see if they DO fit..


----------



## mt877

drewbadour said:


> Well I jumped right into the deep end (hopefully end game achieved)
> tgxear Serratus, RikuBuds Saber 1 and Lancer 1 ordered
> Now to find a source that will do them justice...


There's never an earbud end game... there will always be something coming around the corner that you'll just have to get. HAHA!


----------



## drewbadour

samandhi said:


> I don't know what the G5 costs but have you looked at the iFi Go Blue. It is $199 and looks to put out up to 5.6Vrms which is pretty insane (almost 1W @32ohms) for its absolute tiny size.


Interesting... so this would have no problem powering serratus (and tantalus)?

Maybe i need to replace my qudelix 5k with it then since I don't care for PEQ...

But does it have 4.4mm jack?
JK I see it does... ok that might seal the deal


----------



## o0genesis0o

christianfps said:


> No man I appreciate the FF3s, it's just new to me hahaha! It's pretty accurate to my liking!
> 
> 
> Yeah I think I still mix things a lot with the terminologies but yeah warmer is the right word for it!



Hey, no intention to gatekeeping or nitpicking about terminology of course. My terminologies come from DMS video here



JAnonymous5150 said:


> Interesting. I don't game hardly at all aside from the occasional game on my phone so I have never tried the FF3s for gaming and hadn't heard anyone discuss their performance during play. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on that.



FF3 is quite fun for game. I wasted entire Sunday playing a boring game on Nintendo Switch because it sounds so good with FF3. The atmosphere that the buds create is very immersive.


----------



## samandhi (Aug 22, 2022)

BCool said:


> Has anyone tried out these silicone hybrid-type tips on their buds? Seems like a good compromise between getting an IEM seal and consistent fit without having to go fully into the ear canal.


Ok, so I got these to fit (only just), and they aren't too bad, but because of how much you have to stretch them, it takes away from the length of the piece that should be going closer to your ear canal. It doesn't sound TOO bad, but the treble is definitely muted a bit, but bass is not raised at all IMO (though the upper bass is quite a bit). Overall it throws off the tonality of the buds (in this case the RW3000).



Spoiler










Edit:Yes I know there is a ton of dust that got under my screen protector (don't make fun of me). I just haven't taken the time to put another one on it.... (for 3 years now it seems)


----------



## syazwaned (Aug 22, 2022)

drewbadour said:


> Well I jumped right into the deep end (hopefully end game achieved)
> tgxear Serratus, RikuBuds Saber 1 and Lancer 1 ordered
> Now to find a source that will do them justice...



I thought I had my end game 6 months ago. I have 6 earbuds, 6 iems and 3 dac amp to cater all my music preference. Now I have sold all my earbuds, 3 iems, and waiting for my Grand Archer 1 to complete and Yinman 600 ohm to arrive. So careful about that "end game" phrase, it may ends your wallet, but it can never ends your game  







Has anyone look at this? It has everything I want in a portable, 2 W output, full MQA and changeable dac. Not sure the op amp is changeable as well.


----------



## drewbadour

syazwaned said:


> I thought I had my end game 6 months ago. I have 6 earbuds, 6 iems and 3 dac amp to cater all my music preference. Now I have sold all my earbuds, 3 iems, and waiting for my Grand Archer 1 to complete and Yinman 600 ohm to arrive. So careful about that "end game" phrase, it may ends your wallet, but it can never ends your game
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Luckily, I'm already done with headphones and my IEM endgame has likely been found - went all the way up to U12T and came back down to earth (kinda) with EJ07M that I'm very happy with.

Earbuds are the next horizon and hopefully I don't get too far in the hole because of it haha.


----------



## drewbadour

samandhi said:


> I don't know what the G5 costs but have you looked at the iFi Go Blue. It is $199 and looks to put out up to 5.6Vrms which is pretty insane (almost 1W @32ohms) for its absolute tiny size.


Wait I'm seeing go blue with the following stats for Go Blue.
4.4mm Balanced 245mW @ 32Ω; 5.6V @ 600Ω
3.5mm Unbalanced 165mW @ 32Ω; 2.8V @ 600Ω
Could you help me with the calculations since I'm a bit out of my depth here?

For Qudelix I'm seeing the following: 
3.5mm Unbalanced output max. 2.0V RMS 
2.5mm Balanced output max. 4.0V RMS


----------



## weexisttocease

syazwaned said:


> I thought I had my end game 6 months ago. I have 6 earbuds, 6 iems and 3 dac amp to cater all my music preference. Now I have sold all my earbuds, 3 iems, and waiting for my Grand Archer 1 to complete and Yinman 600 ohm to arrive. So careful about that "end game" phrase, it may ends your wallet, but it can never ends your game
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This looks interesting. Who is building this DAC/AMP?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

First impressions on the Yinman 600 2.0:

It took me alot longer to put together my "first" impressions because the Yinmans required some more thorough testing and experimentation than the other buds I have been posting about previously due to their power requirements and certain opinions I have heard expressed regarding their scalability with more power/headroom that I felt obligated to explore before writing this up.

When discussing sound I want to start off by saying that the Yinman 600s are a pleasant listen that I would think almost anyone would enjoy. They have a full, rich low end with a thick presentation that, while not as energetic or tight as some other earbuds I like, provides a satisfying foundation upon which music can build. As with many earbuds, the mids are IMO the star of the show with the Yinmans. The mids are pleasantly linear without any undue emphasis on low or high mids with plenty of warmth. The highs extend well and are musical, hanging on to quite a bit of the warmth from the midrange. The overall presentation of the buds is laid back and musical with a decently sized soundstage and a lushness that makes the listening experience easy to sink into.

For some tracks/artists, I find the Yinmans to lack a bit of energy for my tastes. This is common with earbuds (or any transducer medium really) that share this lush and overtly warm signature/presentation. Many people seek out this signature and I myself find it to be quite satisfying when I would like to relax and relieve some tension at the end of the day. However, I will say that in the case of the 600s the warmth goes a bit beyond my personal preference even making the treble in particular seem a bit veiled or at least unnaturally warm at times. This isn't apparent or problematic all the time, rather more just on tracks that have cymbals, vocals, pianos, high strings, etc that require that last bit of clarity and sparkle in the treble that the 600's warmth seems unwilling to allow. 

As for detail the 600s provide a quite detailed presentation, though the warmth and sometimes the note weight/decay make you actively listen to find it. Overall though the Yinman 600s aren't an earbud that I would choose for critical listening sessions and in the relaxing, tension relieving mood I enjoyed them most in the detail being less in my face and the treble being a bit warm can certainly be an asset. What I'm getting at is that these properties don't come across as flaws. They are obviously, IMO, deliberate choices meant to contribute the the desired overall presentation and they do so admirably. Whether that presentation aligns with any given listener's tastes or preferences is up that person. I found that for me, the 600s seem to be what I call a "mood bud." Meaning that I would need to be in a particular mood, wanting to be relaxed and calmed, to truly enjoy what the Yinman 600s have to offer. For that mood though, they are very good.

Now to address the amplification situation: Before ever trying these buds I read from many sources about how these earbuds need proper amplification and that they scale very well with increasingly powerful sources. I may get lynched for this, but I, thus far, have found that to be only partially true. Allow me to explain before anyone gets to excited.

The first thing I plugged the Yinmans into was the ifi Gryphon I have been using for all my prior earbud review posts. The Gryphon has quite a bit of power behind it and the Yinmans sounded quite good driven by it. I didn't need nearly all the power on tap to reach extreme volume levels which was no surprise, but I felt compelled to try other sources of amplification to test the scalability claims as I knew inquiring minds would be looking answers on this front.

Luckily for those who are curious, I have a Burson Timekeeper 3i which is one of the more capable headphone amps out there. Even luckier, I am also demoing some other pretty powerful devices because I wanted to make sure that I am getting the absolute best out of my DCA Stealths, which I just recently acquired. Thus, I have a GS-Xmini and Ferrum Oor also on hand to plug the Yinmans into.

To properly test the yinman 600's scalability, I first plugged them into a much weaker source (Fiio e10k) than the Gryphon so I would have an idea of how well their performance scaled to the Gryphon in the first place. As expected the e10k struggled to drive the Yinmans and they sounded very flat, dull, and flabby, the drivers struggling with any articulation let alone energy and detail. Next came the TK3i. I needed nowhere near the full power on tap for volume, which was expected, what was more surprising was that I didn't find a big improvment in control over the low end, detail, clarity, or treble extension. I heard slight differences, but even with those I found myself unsure of which were due to differences in the DAC chipset versus the power supplied.

In order to better sort that out, I tried using the GS-Xmini and the Ferrum Oor as the power sources and alternated between DACs to experiment. In the end, I would say that from what I heard the Gryphon was giving me 95% of what the Yinmans have to give. My testing took so long and was so extensive because I had heard from many others about how the performance seemingly grows and grows with more and more power so I wanted to be pretty sure that I wasn't selling the 600s short. 

Maybe I misunderstood and that last 5% was the scalability they were referrencing, but from the way I heard the power to performance increases mentioned, I was left with the impression that a pretty high powered deaktop amp was more or less necessary to get more than mediocre performance out of the Yinmans. In my experience, on most tracks there was no difference to be found between what I heard driving the Yinmans with the Gryphon versus any of the more powerful sources. Only on tracks with the most dynamic range and of the best recording and production quality did I catch a noticeable improvement and even then it was quite small hence my 95% estimate. 

Before I set this opinion in stone, I will wait to listen to the Yinman 600s when I am absolutely fresh and even then will likely listen to them several more times before I feel comfortable saying that this is my firmly held opinion regarding the scalability of the Yinman 600s with power. Though, I had taken multiple breaks and didn't feel fatigued so I am secure enough in my observations to say that the 600s definitely need aome grunt behind them to sound good, but perhaps not as much as I think many would believe if their impressions of some common comments made about the Yinmans are the same as mine.

To wrap up, the Yinman 600 2.0s are really a very nice pair of earbuds. If you're looking for a nice relaxing listen to wind down with at the of the day and you have a powerful source to drive these bad boys, the Yinman 600s just might be your dream bud. It's easy to see why many people find these to be a great inclusion in their collections. Given their enjoyable sound and their relatively modest price tag the Yinmans are quite a value if you've got the power to drive them.

Next up will be the VE Sun Dice or Asura 3.0 (I like to keep you guys guessing), but I'm not sure when I will be doing the listening because I will be spending a lot of time in the studio and doing the attendant prepwork and homework that entails. If you're interested you'll just have to keep your eye out.

P.S. Sorry for the epic post length (Homer would be proud lol...Greek Homer not Homer Simpson)! I tried to keep it shortish, but it seemed pointless to post without at least attempting to answer the questions I know people will have because I'm not entirely sure how available I will be for answering them later so forgive me. I think it was ultimately for the best.


----------



## fooltoque (Aug 22, 2022)

drewbadour said:


> Wait I'm seeing go blue with the following stats for Go Blue.
> 4.4mm Balanced 245mW @ 32Ω; 5.6V @ 600Ω
> 3.5mm Unbalanced 165mW @ 32Ω; 2.8V @ 600Ω
> Could you help me with the calculations since I'm a bit out of my depth here?
> ...


I tried out the Go Blue at a local store and was puzzled to find that it was not connecting in LDAC mode. Eventually I found that it was a problem with compatibility between my phone (Sony 1 iii) and the Go Blue, with both sides blaming the other for it. Was disappointing, since I really like the style and form factor of the Go Blue, but I went with a Shanling UP5 instead (the Qudelix was not available to try).

Anyways, just a warning since phone compatibility is apparently a thing.


----------



## samandhi

drewbadour said:


> Wait I'm seeing go blue with the following stats for Go Blue.
> 4.4mm Balanced 245mW @ 32Ω; 5.6V @ 600Ω
> 3.5mm Unbalanced 165mW @ 32Ω; 2.8V @ 600Ω
> Could you help me with the calculations since I'm a bit out of my depth here?
> ...


Oh, your right I saw this and just did the math:



> The amp stage delivers up to 5.6V (twice the voltage of others) – considerably more power than other similarly sized devices – handling even relatively tough headphone loads with ease. To ensure signal strength suits the sensitivity of the connected headphones or earphones, auto-gain adjusts output up or down by 6dB.



This is a bit misleading IMO. 

4.4mm balanced with 245mW @32ohms would be only 2.8Vrms, so it has to be a self adjusting power (saver) or something like that. It doesn't really make sense. Maybe @iFi audio could answer this?!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

drewbadour said:


> Luckily, I'm already done with headphones and my IEM endgame has likely been found - went all the way up to U12T and came back down to earth (kinda) with EJ07M that I'm very happy with.
> 
> Earbuds are the next horizon and hopefully I don't get too far in the hole because of it haha.



I just got the EJ07M a while back and it is one of the most overlooked IEMs in that $350 to $1k no man's land that many people struggle to find an IEM that justifies the price paid over the best planars, ER4XR, B2 (Dusk and Non), Tansio Mirai Sands, etc. I tried all the regular suggestions and found them all to be lacking, but the EJ07M fills that role nicely.

Enough off topic BS though? @syazwaned is right though, there's no such thing as an endgame in a hobby that keeps progressing. Sure there are timeless classics, but the march of progress is inexorable and it will force you to drop out or upgrade eventually lol! I commend your desire to cut to the chase though!


----------



## MelodyMood

Did anyone use YD30 with Silver Cable? How is the sound? Does it has clear sound with warmness and bass?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

weexisttocease said:


> This looks interesting. Who is building this DAC/AMP?



xDuoo makes the XD05 in all its versions I believe.


----------



## samandhi

So, now that I have been listening to my new buds for a bit, I wanted to update my fav list (which has evolved over time, and it may yet change again). Also, this is actually a bit trickier than it is simple because I could choose a different category and the whole order would change by quite a bit (best fit, best for instrumental, etc...). Having said that, these are my current top five for *all-rounders*:


_Yinman 2.0 600 & FQL Blackhole Redux (shared spot)_
_Fiio FF3_
_Yincrow RW2000_
_Yincrow RW3000_
_Smabat M2s Pro (w/Super One 100ohm bio driver)_


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> So, now that I have been listening to my new buds for a bit, I wanted to update my fav list (which has evolved over time, and it may yet change again). Also, this is actually a bit trickier than it is simple because I could choose a different category and the whole order would change by quite a bit (best fit, best for instrumental, etc...). Having said that, these are my current top five for *all-rounders*:
> 
> 
> _Yinman 2.0 600 & FQL Blackhole Redux (shared spot)_
> ...



That's a pretty darn good list! It's lretty amazing how many great earbud options there are out there these days. What a great time to be an earbud aficionado!

I ordered the Super Ones to try so naturally your post has me wondering what it is you like so much about yhe Super One 100ohm bio with your M2s Pro shells. Mind giving me a little breakdown?


----------



## samandhi (Aug 22, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Oh, your right I saw this and just did the math:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok, so if you were wanting to use 300ohm headphones, apparently this lil' amp scales (probably as mentioned earlier, a power saver) up pretty well.

So 5.6Vrms @300ohms (assuming they are not very efficient, say 95dB/mW) and <1ohm output impedance:

What you have available from the amp:

5.6Vrms
104.5mW
What you need for the (pretend) headphones:


32mW
3.10Vrms
10.3mA
So theoretically you are still getting that (almost) 1W in that it scales up in voltage/power as the impedance goes up. If the numbers from the factory are true this is still an amazing little fella' IMO.


----------



## christianfps

o0genesis0o said:


> Hey, no intention to gatekeeping or nitpicking about terminology of course. My terminologies come from DMS video here


Much appreciated bro! I do find it helpful if people correct me haha and thank you for the reference. 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> Do you intend to use them exclusively for gaming or are you planning on giving music a shot through your FF3s as well?


Actually listened to them until I fell asleep last night hahaha! I don't know what it is but I can't stop listening to them. Like the more I use them, the more I appreciate them. Might try the Viridis next for a brighter reference of earbuds.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> That's a pretty darn good list! It's lretty amazing how many great earbud options there are out there these days. What a great time to be an earbud aficionado!
> 
> I ordered the Super Ones to try so naturally your post has me wondering what it is you like so much about yhe Super One 100ohm bio with your M2s Pro shells. Mind giving me a little breakdown?


It IS a great time indeed! 

Oh, I must have missed that one on your list of (Christmas) goodies...  Sure, I will put them in while I type this (I don't trust my memory to be accurate). Keep in mind though that the shell design is totally different, so you may not get the same sound at all, and I have't heard the Super Ones, so I can't compare (though I DO have the ST10S B&G). 

Ah, yes. I actually would have ranked these higher were it not for the boosted presence region (by quite a bit). Having said that, since you aren't necessarily vulnerable to that "shouty" sound, these will actually be right up your alley. 

The bass is just so yummy on these. In quantity it is very neutral (if the song has big bass, you will hear it, otherwise you will hear less). But these have some decently textured bass but not a terribly boosted mid-bass or upper bass hump (so more of a sub-bass focus). They aren't warm, but also aren't dark, cold, or dry IMO. From the upper mids and up, they give so much air (but not thin or tinny IMO) that these things are definitely crystal clear on everything you hear. This could be a bad thing in that they can get fatiguing with some high-pitched guitar songs, pretty quick with any sort of volume (think Munsen's Curve here) to my ears. And they aren't very forgiving with low quality or low-res files. Treble is actually not boosted TOO much because I hear cymbals at about the same level as the rest of the drums (which seems more accurate to me). But it is very present and gives all the other instruments a great 2nd harmonic that makes them sound clear and accurate. Overall, I would call the tuning on these as a "W" signature. 

As for the technicalities, they are like most Smabat buds in that they are top notch on all fronts. These really are great drivers. There are a lot of people on here that love using their drivers as DIY because of their quality OOTB. Of the 5 drivers I have tried in this shell, I think I have come to like this pairing the best (though you have no idea how close it was for a couple of these). As @Ronion said to me once, "Whichever driver is in the shell at the time, I like it best"... lol But that doesn't mean they all sound exactly the same so, high praise to Smabat IMO. 

Anyhow, I am rambling on, but I hope that helps some?! If you have any questions, I can try and answer....


----------



## tgx78 (Aug 22, 2022)

100ohm Smabats are quite nice. It was one of my favorites from their collection of drivers. Good timbre and nicely resolving. Too bad soundstage is a bit smaller than I hoped.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 22, 2022)

samandhi said:


> It IS a great time indeed!
> 
> Oh, I must have missed that one on your list of (Christmas) goodies...  Sure, I will put them in while I type this (I don't trust my memory to be accurate). Keep in mind though that the shell design is totally different, so you may not get the same sound at all, and I have't heard the Super Ones, so I can't compare (though I DO have the ST10S B&G).
> 
> ...



Thank you so much! My intent with the M4 and the Super Ones that I ordered is to pick the one that I like best and then start driver rolling as well. The only way I won't end up keeping one of them is if I decide that I prefer the M2s or M3 that I tried before. The idea of a modular driver earbud that actually performs well and isn't just a gimmick sounds like too much to pass up!

Edit: The M4 and Super One weren't on my original list, BTW. I ordered them separately on Wednesday of last week I think.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

christianfps said:


> Much appreciated bro! I do find it helpful if people correct me haha and thank you for the reference.
> 
> Actually listened to them until I fell asleep last night hahaha! I don't know what it is but I can't stop listening to them. Like the more I use them, the more I appreciate them. Might try the Viridis next for a brighter reference of earbuds.



The FF3's presentation is so addicting! I totally get where you're coming from. The Viridis are an entirely different beast. They are one of my favorite neutral-bright buds to be sure. They impart a special beauty to certain tracks and genres that is quite unique in my experience thus far.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Thank you so much! My intent with the M4 and the Super Ones that I ordered is to pick the one that I like best and then start driver rolling as well. The only way I won't end up keeping one of them is if I decide that I prefer the M2s or M3 that I tried before. The idea of a modular driver earbud that actually performs well and isn't just a gimmick sounds like too much to pass up!
> 
> Edit: The M4 and Super One weren't on my original list, BTW. I ordered them separately on Wednesday of last week I think.


For me they aren't a gimmick, but then I only paid $40(something) for them, and in the beginning I had no intention in buying any of the (other) drivers for it, but @Ronion helped me decide to get them (JUST before they were discontinued), and I am certainly glad I did, because the stock 40ohm driver is my least favorite of the 5 (but still really good) in that shell.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> For me they aren't a gimmick, but then I only paid $40(something) for them, and in the beginning I had no intention in buying any of the (other) drivers for it, but @Ronion helped me decide to get them (JUST before they were discontinued), and I am certainly glad I did, because the stock 40ohm driver is my least favorite of the 5 (but still really good) in that shell.


I just wish I could get another set of the Little Bio…. It’s a shame they were so cheap.  I don’t think anyone took them seriously.  The 150ti are another standout in that collection.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> I just wish I could get another set of the Little Bio…. It’s a shame they were so cheap.  I don’t think anyone took them seriously.  The 150ti are another standout in that collection.



That's some good info to know. I have a friend of a friend offering to sell me a complete set of all the Smabat drivers. Does anyone know where I can find a list of all the drivers they offered so I can see if it's actually a complete set when I head up to San Francisco in 1.5 weeks?

And not to do another random topic change, but at least this is one is about earbuds as opposed to IEMs:

I just wanted to say for the record that the Toneking TP16s are quite underrated/overlooked in the budget earbud market. They have a very euphonic musicality that belies their modest price tag. Add to that the solid build and the fact that they aren't at all picky about sources and you're left with a very capable and appealing earbud for very little cash. 

I was taking a break from drumming while our vocalist is doing his thing and the TP16s happened to be the "stash pair" i had packaged with the DAP in my stick bag so I threw them on to have a little timeout. Everytime I put the TP16s on I thoroughly enjoy the listening. They aren't TOTL, but they are pretty high up on my budget earbud list.

They sound a treat with the Vampire Weekend playlist I had going. What a great way to spend $13.


----------



## drewbadour

samandhi said:


> Ok, so if you were wanting to use 300ohm headphones, apparently this lil' amp scales (probably as mentioned earlier, a power saver) up pretty well.
> 
> So 5.6Vrms @300ohms (assuming they are not very efficient, say 95dB/mW) and <1ohm output impedance:
> 
> ...


Oooh, this is interesting. How would the Qudelix 5k fare in comparison?


----------



## tgx78

JAnonymous5150 said:


> That's some good info to know. I have a friend of a friend offering to sell me a complete set of all the Smabat drivers. Does anyone know where I can find a list of all the drivers they offered so I can see if it's actually a complete set when I head up to San Francisco in 1.5 weeks?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

tgx78 said:


>



Perfect! These were the only five I could find, but then I found some posts mentioning driver descriptions that don't match these. My guess is that the posters were either misremembering the names or they were referring to drivers harvested from other Smabat buds not sold as part of the M series set. Either way, it's nice to be sure.

Thank you kindly, my friend!


----------



## syazwaned

drewbadour said:


> Luckily, I'm already done with headphones and my IEM endgame has likely been found - went all the way up to U12T and came back down to earth (kinda) with EJ07M that I'm very happy with.
> 
> Earbuds are the next horizon and hopefully I don't get too far in the hole because of it haha.




Looks like you in clear end game path, unlike me, my path been muddy for soo long   


weexisttocease said:


> This looks interesting. Who is building this DAC/AMP?


Xduoo. Not sure about the price yet, but I hope cheaper than Idsd Signature, Ifi Gold Bar and Centrance Hifi M8.


----------



## samandhi

drewbadour said:


> Oooh, this is interesting. How would the Qudelix 5k fare in comparison?


Using the same (pretend) pair of headphones but with the Qudelix 5K you would be providing (@300ohms) and only .21ohms output impedance :


4.0Vrms 
53.3mW


Where we needed:

32mW
3.10Vrms
10.3mA
It will power them, but there won't be much headroom left, nor much for voltage swing. These might sound a bit flat on the Qudelix 5K.


----------



## baskingshark

samandhi said:


> So, now that I have been listening to my new buds for a bit, I wanted to update my fav list (which has evolved over time, and it may yet change again). Also, this is actually a bit trickier than it is simple because I could choose a different category and the whole order would change by quite a bit (best fit, best for instrumental, etc...). Having said that, these are my current top five for *all-rounders*:
> 
> 
> _Yinman 2.0 600 & FQL Blackhole Redux (shared spot)_
> ...



Bro how does the Yinman 2.0 600 compare with the Yincrow RW2000?

In terms of technicalities and timbre? TIA!


----------



## samandhi (Aug 23, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Perfect! These were the only five I could find, but then I found some posts mentioning driver descriptions that don't match these. My guess is that the posters were either misremembering the names or they were referring to drivers harvested from other Smabat buds not sold as part of the M series set. Either way, it's nice to be sure.
> 
> Thank you kindly, my friend!





Ronion said:


> I just wish I could get another set of the Little Bio…. It’s a shame they were so cheap.  I don’t think anyone took them seriously.  The 150ti are another standout in that collection.


It looks like there are now a total of 6 drivers with the M4 (as can be seen here). But they have done away with the 32ohm bio for the 100ohm ST20P bio.

So in essence we now have (and have to destroy the casing to extract the driver):


150ohm Ti
100ohm bio SO driver
100ohm black biofilm ST20P
large 40ohm LCP ST20
40ohm dome LCP
40ohm Ti (was M2s Pro stock)


----------



## samandhi (Aug 23, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> Bro how does the Yinman 2.0 600 compare with the Yincrow RW2000?
> 
> In terms of technicalities and timbre? TIA!


As for technicalities the Yinman are pretty much better in all things except depth. I think the pina gain boost on the Yincrow give them a bit of depth edge.

Timbre = Yinman are rather warm, rounded, and mellow while still remaining pretty clear. The deeper bass and boosted upper bass help here IMO. These are also more vocal forward overall than the Yincrow (closer akin to an "n" with a slanted left leg).

= Yincrow are rounded, and focused, and have a perceived clarity (comparatively). The boosted presence region, and lower quantity of sub-bass help determine this IMO. These have better female vocals (more akin to a "W" with a more horizontal right wing).

Though I wouldn't call either of these analytical too much. They have more of a fun sound to them but have some properties that COULD be seen as analytical.


----------



## baskingshark

samandhi said:


> As for technicalities the Yinman are pretty much better in all things except depth. I think the pina gain boost on the Yincrow give them a bit of depth edge.
> 
> Timbre = Yinman are rather warm, rounded, and mellow while still remaining pretty clear. The deeper bass and boosted upper bass help here IMO. These are also more vocal forward overall than the Yincrow (closer akin to an "n" with a slanted left leg).
> 
> ...



Thanks man! Helpful info.

In this hobby, stuff moves so fast and gear is released on an almost weekly basis. It is good to see that something comparatively older like the Yinman 600 is still getting good reviews, sometimes old is really gold. 

Now I just need to find some funds to order it and more importantly, to get it past my wife LOLOL.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

baskingshark said:


> Thanks man! Helpful info.
> 
> In this hobby, stuff moves so fast and gear is released on an almost weekly basis. It is good to see that something comparatively older like the Yinman 600 is still getting good reviews, sometimes old is really gold.
> 
> Now I just need to find some funds to order it and more importantly, to get it past my wife LOLOL.



Be careful, bro. Apparently some of the women out there bite! At least, that's one thing my short time on this thread has taught me lol!

As I said in my not-so-mini review/first impressions post, the 600s are a bud I think just about anyone will like. And they're very relaxing to listen to. Grab and a couple beers or a snifter of your favorite scotch, sit back, put your feet up, and let the tension drain away. When I finally get home I just might have to have one of these sessions with them myself!


----------



## samandhi (Aug 23, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> Thanks man! Helpful info.
> 
> In this hobby, stuff moves so fast and gear is released on an almost weekly basis. It is good to see that something comparatively older like the Yinman 600 is still getting good reviews, sometimes old is really gold.
> 
> Now I just need to find some funds to order it and more importantly, to get it past my wife LOLOL.


You are most welcome! 

You are right, it is hard to keep up. As for the Yinmans from what @WoodyLuvr has said, they have retained (pretty much) the same sound through their releases. I have never heard them before the 2.0 600s, but if I had known then, I would have already had some.. 

BTW, while I do agree with most of what @JAnonymous5150 said about them, I would have to disagree with needing to listen to mellow music with them or being in a mellow mood (and the scaling part, sorry JA hehe). They are perfect for metal (in that you can hear the gritty guitar being a mid forward set, but not so in your face that they make your ears bleed and with some needed bass for those older ones). And they are also fantastic for rap, hip-hop, R&B, contemporary bassy music, etc... They might not be as suited for classical or pure instrumentals of the like (but they aren't too shabby there either).

"Better to ask for forgiveness, than permission" right? haha Or, after you have ordered them, simply start sleeping on the couch for a bit. She will know, and think you need no further punishment (maybe???)...


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Be careful, bro. Apparently some of the women out there bite! At least, that's one thing my short time on this thread has taught me lol!
> 
> As I said in my not-so-mini review/first impressions post, the 600s are a bud I think just about anyone will like. And they're very relaxing to listen to. Grab and a couple beers or a snifter of your favorite scotch, sit back, put your feet up, and let the tension drain away. *When I finally get home I just might have to have one of these sessions with them myself!*


TMI! We don't need to know more about what you do with your buds and yourself....


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> TMI! We don't need to know more about what you do with your buds and yourself....



Haha not me man! I'm not the one who spoke about the women in his house being biters!

Aa for the 600s, I didn't mean to imply that you have to listen to mellow music. I just meant that their sound signature being so relaxed and warm makes for relaxed listening. I often listen to melodic metal and emo when relaxing and while the 600s are perhaps not ideal for listening to that stuff on an everyday occasion when I want to rock out or critically listen to particular albums or artists in the genre, they are particularly well suited for listening to that stuff when I don't want to be an active listener or an energetic participant, but would rather be enveloped by the music without all that. So you and I probably agree more than you think.

As for the power stuff, I will be listening again to make sure my impressions weren't the result of a one off fluke. However, we may have to prepare to agree to disagree if my impressions remain the same. At least no one can say I didn't try with powerful enough amps lol!😜


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 23, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Or maybe like a lot of DAPs where they give X + X or in this case 300mW + 300mW he was assuming that is what they did.
> 
> SE is shown as 170mW.
> 
> ...


It all has to do with amp circuit/op-amp and power supply design limitations, as well as to remember that power calculators are "best case examples" mathematically but actual performance of a circuit is anywhere from 0.1% to 5% of what is being calculated (and in some cases even higher for certain designs to lower noise, feedback issues, etc.).

In this particular case, *current is the limiting factor *(limited at 32ohms by design no doubt) and thus explains the lower power ratings given. It appears that the VE Megatron has a ~135 mA (rms)  current limitation which sounds about right. Quite common with USB bus powered devices. To be honest we don't really know what an amp is EXACTLY doing at any specific impedance unless we have power, voltage (Vrms), AND current (mArms) specifications at hand for all impedances... not really a viable solution but I do wish that more manufacturers provided current data along with power & voltage for at least four or five common impedance levels.

Sadly, a lot of these semi-portable/semi-desktop "power" monstrosities that we see now-a-days might have excellent power and voltage capabilities (clean and powerful) but their current performance may be rather poor... current ratings that remain a mystery, make one suspect that the supposedly power on-hand is no where as close to being used as one would desire and/or is even available... again, due to the design of the amp circuit/op-amp being employed. A many of these mighty power performers are really not quite as powerful as one may believe and thus why *full-sized desktop variants with healthy large power supplies many times provide a noticeably better experience in scalability and overall performance*.

I didn't even mention voltage swing... a whole other can of worms!


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> At least no one can say I didn't try with powerful enough amps lol!😜



Not directly related but kinda related:

Fiio KA3 seems to work very well with Fiio FF3, better than BTR5 and Hidizs AP80 Pro x DAP. Note attacks are a bit more well defined, and the “air” is particularly noticeable on KA3 comparing to all of my other sources. I have A/B again and again, bump up the volume on other sources to see if I am biased because KA3 might be louder, but nope, the same. Maybe Fiio boosts subbass and upper treble? I don’t believe power output is the cause here.

anyhow, I feel kinda silly because I have been strongly in the camp “sources make no difference for portable devices”. The other day someone asked for my recommendation because “you are honest and down to earth and do not believe in source scaling b***crap”


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Haha not me man! I'm not the one who spoke about the women in his house being biters!


It's your story, tell it anyhow you want to!   


JAnonymous5150 said:


> Aa for the 600s, I didn't mean to imply that you have to listen to mellow music. I just meant that their sound signature being so relaxed and warm makes for relaxed listening. I often listen to melodic metal and emo when relaxing and while the 600s are perhaps not ideal for listening to that stuff on an everyday occasion when I want to rock out or critically listen to particular albums or artists in the genre, they are particularly well suited for listening to that stuff when I don't want to be an active listener or an energetic participant, but would rather be enveloped by the music without all that. So you and I probably agree more than you think.


Now that you have given extra detail (to the details ), I would agree that we probably DO agree more on these than was first thought. Probably just my old self reading it wrong. My wife sometimes calls me the stupidest smart person she knows... lol 

But it could also stem from the fact that the method of relaxation varies between us. I find a good anthemic metal song makes me want to bang the steering wheel while driving (think Pantera, or old Metallica, Megadeth), or something like that (that is me relaxing to the music). If I am sitting with a glass of Bordeaux listening (without reading or doing something else, being the key here) to some strings, or OST, or etc... I am probably sleeping... 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> As for the power stuff, I will be listening again to make sure my impressions weren't the result of a one off fluke. However, we may have to prepare to agree to disagree if my impressions remain the same. At least no one can say I didn't try with powerful enough amps lol!😜


BUT..... You may also be right though because even though the amp cards I use in my DX are made by the same company, synergy could really come into play here along with different signatures. I just don't see it changing THAT much though (except the tube amp) between the cards to make such a difference (that I am hearing). 

And I have no problem "agreeing to disagree" as we all seem to be grown-ups here. Speaking of... if/when you listen again, could you list the power ratings of those amps (so I can be lazy and not have to look every single one up)?? lol If not that is fine too (I guess).


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> It all has to do with amp circuit/op-amp and power supply design limitations, as well as to remember that power calculators are "best case examples" mathematically but actual performance of a circuit is anywhere from 0.1% to 5% less than what is being calculated.
> 
> In this particular case, *current is the limiting factor *(limited at 32ohms by design no doubt) and thus explains the lower power ratings given. It appears that the VE Megatron has a ~135 mA (rms)  current limitation which sounds about right. Quite common with USB bus powered devices. To be honest we don't really know what an amp is EXACTLY doing at any specific impedance unless we have power, voltage (Vrms), AND current (mArms) specifications at hand for all impedances... not really a viable solution but I do wish that more manufacturers provided current data along with power & voltage for at least four or five common impedance levels.
> 
> ...


I have to agree with you here. I couldn't find any current rating and suspected it might be something to that nature. And I also wish they would list all of these things. Most companies tend to NOT list the things that are weak (which is pretty devious IMO). Take the DX300 (I know I keep talking about it). While there might be some things not mentioned by the company, current (which is very important as you alluded to also) is not one of them (which, even the stock card has 2A available because it has a seperate battery for the amp section). This is also one of the reasons I have never hesitated in buying ANY planar headphone/IEM. 

Bottom line is I agree, and you really have to pay more attention to the figures that they DON'T mention, because most of the "mentioned" figures will probably sell you something you might be mad at later. 

Oh, yeah voltage swing was a thought on my mind with this particular amp.


----------



## ttorbic (Aug 23, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> It all has to do with amp circuit/op-amp and power supply design limitations, as well as to remember that power calculators are "best case examples" mathematically but actual performance of a circuit is anywhere from 0.1% to 5% less than what is being calculated.
> 
> In this particular case, *current is the limiting factor *(limited at 32ohms by design no doubt) and thus explains the lower power ratings given. It appears that the VE Megatron has a ~135 mA (rms)  current limitation which sounds about right. Quite common with USB bus powered devices. To be honest we don't really know what an amp is EXACTLY doing at any specific impedance unless we have power, voltage (Vrms), AND current (mArms) specifications at hand for all impedances... not really a viable solution but I do wish that more manufacturers provided current data along with power & voltage for at least four or five common impedance levels.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for the insightful reply!

So VE showed this table during their product launch:





Is it possible to use P=I*V to say that at 64 Ohms, current is 58 mA, and at 300 Ohms, it's 15 mA? And more importantly, if we consider all these numbers, would the Megatron drive 500-600 Ohm buds to their complete or near-complete potential?

I've ordered one just to compare against my ifi ZEN CAN lol.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 23, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Not directly related but kinda related:
> 
> Fiio KA3 seems to work very well with Fiio FF3, better than BTR5 and Hidizs AP80 Pro x DAP. Note attacks are a bit more well defined, and the “air” is particularly noticeable on KA3 comparing to all of my other sources. I have A/B again and again, bump up the volume on other sources to see if I am biased because KA3 might be louder, but nope, the same. Maybe Fiio boosts subbass and upper treble? I don’t believe power output is the cause here.
> 
> anyhow, I feel kinda silly because I have been strongly in the camp “sources make no difference for portable devices”. The other day someone asked for my recommendation because “you are honest and down to earth and do not believe in source scaling b***crap”



Whether or not a source will make a noticeable difference is dependent on a lot of things and is not just a static yes or no amswer as with most things in this hobby. The transducer's properties and qualities, the listener's palette and hearing abilities, the sources being used and decided between, the quality and dynamic range of recordings/source files, and much more go in to answering that question. So you were never wrong per se because you likely hadn't heard it before.

I don't even mind if that's someone's opinion as long as they have actually explored gear that operates at a high enough level that they actually have the information and experience to create an informed opinion. The number of nitwits who will involve themselves in flame wars about sources making no difference while only ever having tried a dongle or two on budget transducers is frustrating though.

I will also say that when an enthusiast/audiophile says a source makes a huge difference that may refer to squeezing an extra 10% of performance from higher level equipment so a lot of newbies go into the source stuff expecting a much bigger difference from source to source than perhaps they should. Add to that that many people don't have the resources or interest to properly explore the topic and in this day of keyboard warriors you're left with a bunch of very vocal, highly opinionated people who have next to no real world experience justifying their opinions. Unfortunately, those same keryboard warriors tend to be the types who have the time and desire to win social media popularity contests so their opinions get propagated and accepted.

Not to mention the fact that any casual IEM fan that's working with a budget and is only slightly more than casually involved in the hobby loves nothing more than to have their biases confirmed. If all you have access to is relatively mediocre equipment, sources, files etc and someone is out there saying that equipment is endgame and anything beyond is snake oil confirmation bias kicks in hard because believing that claim allows you to jump from beginner to end game in one fell swoop.

That's not to say that moving up to higher and more expensive equipment is necessary for everyone or beneficial for everyone. Finding your niche and comfort zone is a great thing, but condemning others so you can be intellectually lazy and claim an elite status even if just in your own mind or on a subreddit/forum is something else entirely. I am all for maximizing what you have, valuing it, and finding satisfaction, but I am very much against scoffing at others for pursuing a hobby that's mostly about subjective experiences in ways that don't stop where your pursuit has. It's disingenuous at best.

And to be clear, I'm not at all saying that applies to you. I think many people believe sources make little to no difference "if properly implemented" until they experience that lightbulb moment where they realize that proper implemetation doesn't mean just one thing and doesn't culminate in a single transparent sonic profile and performance.

Wow! I guess I had that rant saved up for a while, huh? LOL!


----------



## BCool

samandhi said:


> Ok, so I got these to fit (only just), and they aren't too bad, but because of how much you have to stretch them, it takes away from the length of the piece that should be going closer to your ear canal. It doesn't sound TOO bad, but the treble is definitely muted a bit, but bass is not raised at all IMO (though the upper bass is quite a bit). Overall it throws off the tonality of the buds (in this case the RW3000).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for trying it out! I wasn't expecting an answer so quickly haha


----------



## syazwaned

ttorbic said:


> Thank you very much for the insightful reply!
> 
> So VE showed this table during their product launch:
> 
> ...



While I like Megatron 
I would not recommend VE Megatron though. My ve megatron has almost the same sonic performance of my Apogee groove. Have some issue with my megatron, 4.4 mm Port wouldn't work, too loud for low impedance stuff, and some distortion at higher volume.


----------



## samandhi

ttorbic said:


> Thank you very much for the insightful reply!
> 
> So VE showed this table during their product launch:
> 
> ...


That would depend on the efficiency. If you take the Yinmans, which are 600ohms @ (more than likely) 90dB/mW you wouldn't be able to drive them properly:

Amp power output at 600ohms:

5.6Vrms
104.5
18.6mA
Yinman numbers needed:


100mW
7.75Vrms
12.9mA



JAnonymous5150 said:


> Whether or not a source will make a noticeable difference is dependent on a lot of things and is not just a static yes or no amswer as with most things in this hobby. The transducer's properties and qualities, the listener's palette and hearing abilities, the sources being used and decided between, the quality and dynamic range of recordings/source files, and much more go in to answering that question. So you were never wrong per se because you likely hadn't heard it before.
> 
> I don't even mind if that's someone's opinion as long as they have actually explored gear that operates at a high enough level that they actually have the information and experience to create an informed opinion. The number of nitwits who will involve themselves in flame wars about sources making no difference while only ever having tried a dongle or two on budget transducers is frustrating though.
> 
> ...


WOW! very inciteful and true too. Nice rant. 


BCool said:


> Thanks for trying it out! I wasn't expecting an answer so quickly haha


You are welcome! Actually I had been curious about that very same thing, and just forgot until you reminded me. So, actually thank you for reminding me.


----------



## ttorbic

syazwaned said:


> While I like Megatron
> I would not recommend VE Megatron though. My ve megatron has almost the same sonic performance of my Apogee groove. Have some issue with my megatron, 4.4 mm Port wouldn't work, too loud for low impedance stuff, and some distortion at higher volume.


Thanks for the input! Sadly the Apogee Groove is 4x the price of Megatron  
I'll see if I hear a significant difference between my Qudelix, iFi Zen CAN, and the Megatron  maybe my ears won't be picky loll


----------



## o0genesis0o (Aug 23, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I will also say that when an enthusiast/audiophile says a source makes a huge difference that may refer to squeezing an extra 10% of performance from higher level equipment so a lot of newbies go into the source stuff expecting a much bigger difference from source to source than perhaps they should.



Well said.

It’s kind of condescending and gatekeeping but I think there is such a thing as “trained listener”. I know that I pay more attention to stuffs that I didn’t even know exist when I started long time ago. Of course that does not make me “superior”, just having higher expectations. More experienced folks with ultra high end gears might be even more critical (or not).

Squeezing that last bit of performance out is a big deal at the top end, though. Imagine if I can squeeze a bit more resolution out of Andromeda, it would be a huge deal because few can top that IEM ok resolution, IMHO.



JAnonymous5150 said:


> And to be clear, I'm not at all saying that applies to you. I think many people believe sources make little to no difference "if properly implemented" until they experience that lightbulb moment where they realize that proper implemetation doesn't mean just one thing and doesn't culminate in a single transparent sonic profile and performance.



I’m that kind of people   To be fair I did not pay attention in high school about electronic so I didn’t know much about these amp things. I have to relearn V and Ohm and Ampere again to prepare for DIY earbuds


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> It’s kind of condescending and gatekeeping but I think there is such a thing as “trained listener”. I know that I pay more attention to stuffs that I didn’t even know exist when I started long time ago. Of course that does not make me “superior”, just having higher expectations. More experienced folks with ultra high end gears might be even more critical (or not).


I know exactly what you mean. In the past I could never pick out a 16/44 compared to a 24/192, but when you know what to listen for you can. Does it mean that the entire file sounds better because you were able to pick up on that one small que? Well, now that has been the hot debate for years, and all the (golden ears) name calling, and all that stuff.... On the other hand, sometimes ignorance CAN be bliss... lol 

There is a fine line between always listening for flaws and just listening. If one listens TOO hard, one NEVER gets to enjoy the music, so then what is the point? Well, some folks enjoy the hobby ONLY for this reason (I have seen many people like this). Those are the people that I normally DON'T listen to very much because they are NEVER happy IMO. 

@JAnonymous5150 You really should have picked up a set of ST10S B&G IMHO BTW... they really are different than anything else I have heard from Smabat, and the 150ohm Ti used in them have some of the best bass (quality AND quantity at the same time) I have heard in a bud thus far. There is a reason it (and the 150ohm Ti) has been around for a while in some form or another. I haven't heard the ST10S Silver, but it has the same driver as the stock M2s Pro (40ohm Ti). Just sayin'!


----------



## yaps66

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Whether or not a source will make a noticeable difference is dependent on a lot of things and is not just a static yes or no amswer as with most things in this hobby. The transducer's properties and qualities, the listener's palette and hearing abilities, the sources being used and decided between, the quality and dynamic range of recordings/source files, and much more go in to answering that question. So you were never wrong per se because you likely hadn't heard it before.
> 
> I don't even mind if that's someone's opinion as long as they have actually explored gear that operates at a high enough level that they actually have the information and experience to create an informed opinion. The number of nitwits who will involve themselves in flame wars about sources making no difference while only ever having tried a dongle or two on budget transducers is frustrating though.
> 
> ...


Excellent rant and rave! Needed to be said and we needed to be reminded of those basic truths. 

Truth hurts but the beauty of this hobby is that one man's truth is another's man's folly and we can be the judge of what we like or not like.  Fortunately Head-Fi, and in particular this Earbuds Round-Up thread and The Watercooler thread are two amazing threads where we can share freely without fear of recrimination.  Sharing is caring and the more information there is, the better informed others are in making their own purchasing decisions.  This is especially so when many of us have to blind buy.

The one unfortunate by-product of all this sharing is caring is, FOMO.  I told myself when I first bought the FiiO EM5 that I was just scratching a small itch to see what all the hype (about buds) was about.  And then I discovered this thread and the rest, as they say, is history!

Ultimately, just enjoy the music!


----------



## o0genesis0o (Aug 23, 2022)

samandhi said:


> On the other hand, sometimes ignorance CAN be bliss... lol



True that! I bought my tiny DAP with dual saber chips and balanced connection to get rid of the dongle life, and now I cannot enjoy my DAP in peace because I know KA3 outperforms it noticeably. Just great, more money sink. I should learn how to DIY an amp  

Anyhow, back to earbuds. I finally can take a walk with FF3. The trick is to stop worrying about the buds falling out. They don’t. 

FF3 with well recorded classical music is very holographic. I had to check a couple times whether the sound comes from my buds or from the room (someone playing music loudly). I was listening to Bach Violin partitas played by Perlman, btw.


----------



## samandhi

Has anyone here actually gotten/heard the Smabat M4 yet? I am curious to read whether it is just an updated M2s Pro?! The site says that is has changed it, but that could be such a slight change that it might not make much of a difference. Plus, after the "ice pick" fiasco that is the ST20P I am wary to spend another $65 on something that I don't REALLY need...  But I AM curious, and might like a couple of the drivers.


----------



## baskingshark (Aug 23, 2022)

Am very grateful that @FranQL made a nice little DIY earbud for me, a million thanks friend!

BTW is there a name for it? Just received it today and it is really excellent!



This earbud comes with a nice chin sider and clip. Cable is very well braided, tangle-free with ZERO microphonics. There's a nice red and blue gem on the right and blue earpieces respectively. @FranQL I'm sure if you sold this for 50 bucks, people would buy it.

This earbud uses an LCP driver. It isn't the easiest pair of buds to drive, so I'm thinking something > 100 ohms in terms of impedance?

Anyway, with heigi foams installed, the tuning is neutral with a bass boost. The sub-bass has some roll-off as per most conventional earbuds, it is mid-bass focused, with the bass slightly north of neutral. Bass is of good texturing and speed, with a small tinge of mid-bass bleed. This warms the midrange and adds a lot of lushness to this area. The upper mids are slightly forwards without being shouty. Treble is not fatiguing nor sibilant.

Overall note weight is on the thicker side, note edges are not razor harsh and the tuning is very chill and relaxing. Timbre is very organic and natural. Acoustic instruments are really very well portrayed. The soundstage is expansive (especially depth and height), instrument separation and imaging are actually very good on this pair. It sounds really excellent for jazz, acoustic, classical and OST pieces and fairs well with complex instrumentation also.

Thanks once more @FranQL! I'll surely be selling away some of my other earbuds and using this, surely a keeper! Haha maybe I'll not be buying the Yinman 600 ohm after all!


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> BTW is there a name for it? Just received it today and it is really excellent!


I will bet he will tell you the same as he told me "as for naming, you are the boss".....  Those look fantastic (shhh don't tell anyone, I saw those while he was making them for you. I could tell you all about them, but I would have to kill you)....  lol J/K I did get to see them though. 


baskingshark said:


> This earbud comes with a nice chin sider and clip. Cable is very well braided, tangle-free with ZERO microphonics. There's a nice red and blue gem on the right and blue earpieces respectively. @FranQL I'm sure if you sold this for 50 bucks, people would buy it.
> 
> This earbud uses an LCP driver. It isn't the easiest pair of buds to drive, so I'm thinking something > 100 ohms in terms of impedance?
> 
> ...


He really does a fantastic job doesn't he?


----------



## baskingshark

samandhi said:


> I will bet he will tell you the same as he told me "as for naming, you are the boss".....  Those look fantastic (shhh don't tell anyone, I saw those while he was making them for you. I could tell you all about them, but I would have to kill you)....  lol J/K I did get to see them though.
> 
> He really does a fantastic job doesn't he?



Yep @FranQL should set up a shop to sell DIY earbuds, I'm sure there'll be lots of customers.

This earbud reminds me of the Sennheiser HD650, in terms of tuning, but I do think it actually has better imaging than the HD650!


----------



## samandhi (Aug 23, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> Yep @FranQL should set up a shop to sell DIY earbuds, I'm sure there'll be lots of customers.
> 
> This earbud reminds me of the Sennheiser HD650, in terms of tuning, but I do think it actually has better imaging than the HD650!


That makes it pretty darned good then IMO. There is a reason that they HD600/650 are still around after all these years. 

And I agree with you.


----------



## FranQL (Aug 23, 2022)

@baskingshark Thank you very much! I just hope you enjoy them!

And yes, for the name you are the boss, after all there is no more like that.


----------



## samandhi

FranQL said:


> @baskingshark Thank you very much! I just hope you enjoy them!
> 
> And yes, for the name you are the boss, after all there is no more like that.


LOL EVERYTHING MUST GO, AND FOR THE LOW LOW PRICE OF.....


----------



## FranQL (Aug 23, 2022)

samandhi said:


> LOL EVERYTHING MUST GO, AND FOR THE LOW LOW PRICE OF.....



All, without exception, all the buds that I have sent have had the same price for their current owners:



FranQL said:


> The goal is always the same, better sound, that's the hobby. I'm glad to see my name on those lists, a lot, but it doesn't make sense, they are only made to listen to music, that sound is ok for me, I won't create upgrades for them, they are already what they should be..... Today's date the gifts I want to make are already created or in creation, and I stop, that I really ruined myself.......


----------



## samandhi

FranQL said:


> All, without exception, all the buds that I have sent have had the same price for their current owners.


Like I said. Low, low price... hehe


----------



## syazwaned

FranQL said:


> All, without exception, all the buds that I have sent have had the same price for their current owners:




do you make basshead level earbuds, I mean way better than m2s pro + super one level bass?


----------



## FranQL

syazwaned said:


> do you make basshead level earbuds, I mean way better than m2s pro + super one level bass?


In buds, I don't think you can satisfy a basshead, having said this, get a well-marked, fast and deep bass and a subbass with a good level of rumble if possible and I think it can beat M2SPRO and superone, yes, but of course, the Each person's opinion may be different.


----------



## Setmagic

I'm wating for next @FranQL buds too they are already 2 weeks in transit and will be shortly on my ears.
In hot-silver colour 🤠


----------



## samandhi (Aug 23, 2022)

Setmagic said:


> I'm wating for next @FranQL buds too they are already 2 weeks in transit and will be shortly on my ears.
> In hot-silver colour 🤠


I have found a great little case for mine (so that I can show them off)...



Spoiler


----------



## ttorbic

syazwaned said:


> do you make basshead level earbuds, I mean way better than m2s pro + super one level bass?


Might wanna message @RikudouGoku !


----------



## drewbadour

samandhi said:


> Ok, so if you were wanting to use 300ohm headphones, apparently this lil' amp scales (probably as mentioned earlier, a power saver) up pretty well.
> 
> So 5.6Vrms @300ohms (assuming they are not very efficient, say 95dB/mW) and <1ohm output impedance:
> 
> ...


How would this fare against 600ohm buds? lol


----------



## samandhi

drewbadour said:


> How would this fare against 600ohm buds? lol




https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-17109866


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 23, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Well said.
> 
> It’s kind of condescending and gatekeeping but I think there is such a thing as “trained listener”. I know that I pay more attention to stuffs that I didn’t even know exist when I started long time ago. Of course that does not make me “superior”, just having higher expectations. More experienced folks with ultra high end gears might be even more critical (or not).
> 
> ...



Thanks for the kind words. You brought up a good point and it made me want to clarify one last thing. I am in no way saying that a guy with tens of thousands of dollars of high end gear and only listening to bit perfect hi-res is in anyway better than the guy listening to his smart phone, Spotify, and his favorite reasonably priced IEMs. They are just different!

I think it's equally frustrating to watch hardcore audiophiles gatekeep by propagating the belief that you can't be properly enjoying this hobby if you're not doing critical listening sessions on a high end rig and using all the proper terminology to parse the differences between each of your dozens of pieces of kit. That turns people off to this hobby and fewer people loving music/audio/headphones means fewer happy people IMO.

What it comes down to is this: This hobby is something different for each individual who pursues it. Attacking each other for the differences in how we pursue it, what we value, how we invest ourselves in it, and where and how we choose to limit our involvement in it is equally petty, closed minded, frustrating, and ugly no matter which position those attacks are launched from.

The great thing about threads like this is they're largely full of people who let their love of music and the hobby guide their actions which breads enthusiastic participation and the free and unencumbered exchange of ideas with no one fearing backlash over an expressed opinion or genuinely held belief. The diversity of opinions ensures learning on all sides and I love it!

Thank you guys for giving me a cool place to hang out and shoot the breeze about earbuds and music/audio in general. This has become my favorite place to participate in this kind of thing in a very short time and that means a lot to me.


----------



## ttorbic

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Thanks for the kind words. You brought up a good point and it made me want to clarify one last thing. I am in no way saying that a guy with tens of thousands of dollars of high end gear and only listening to bit perfect hi-res is in anyway better than the guy listening to his smart phone, Spotify, and his favorite reasonably priced IEMs. They are just different!
> 
> I think it's equally frustrating to watch hardcore audiophiles gatekeep by propagating the belief that you can't be properly enjoying this hobby if you're not soing critical listening sessions on a high end rig and using all the proper terminology to parse the differences between each of your dozens of pieces of kit. That turns people off to this hobby and fewer people loving music/audio/headphones means fewer happy people IMO.
> 
> ...


And we appreciate your input! it's nice to have very active members here! 

Speaking of input - any word on your Rikubud order? Hope you get to try them soon!


----------



## BobBeats

samandhi said:


> Like I said. Low, low price... hehe


Eleven small payments of $19.99.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

ttorbic said:


> And we appreciate your input! it's nice to have very active members here!
> 
> Speaking of input - any word on your Rikubud order? Hope you get to try them soon!



I just checked and they are at the distribution center and will go out for delivery tomorrow so I should be able to pick them up tomorrow afternoon if evening sometimes depending on when we wrap up studio work tomorrow. I can't wait to give them a shot!


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 23, 2022)

This is off topic and it's going to make me sound like a total fan boy, but I just met Mark Foster from Foster The People and Nathan Followill from Kings of Leon. I love both of their bands, but more importantly they're working together in one of the other  recording suites in the studio my band is working at. I wonder if we're going to see a future collaboration between the two. I think that has the potential to be sick!

One of the best shows I have seen since concerts started again after the pandemic lockdowns was Kings of Leon at the House of Blues in LA. It was a kick ass show at one of my favorite venues! They played two encores so the set ended up being over 2 hours long. I was so stoked! KOL knows how to put on a great live show. I recommend anyone to go see them if given the chance.


----------



## Ronion (Aug 23, 2022)

samandhi said:


> It looks like there are now a total of 6 drivers with the M4 (as can be seen here). But they have done away with the 32ohm bio for the 100ohm ST20P bio.
> 
> So in essence we now have (and have to destroy the casing to extract the driver):
> 
> ...


I bet that ST20P driver is an improvement on the 32’fibre’ driver, but that driver was cheap and great which is something extra special in my book.  Plus its size made it a great fit.  I’m a fan of low cost, great options.  The 20P bio definitely does great bass.  It’s just the BA in the ‘nozzle’ kills the cochlea.  Nonetheless, I’m glad to hear a positive report on the new M4.  Hopefully it has universal appeal.  SMABAT makes great drivers across the board and I’m always rooting for them to get the tuning right.   I may take the Pro apart and fix it.  I hate to do that because of its price and I’m glad I didn’t pay full price or anywhere near full price.  I would have demanded my money back.

It all brings me back to my newest buds the FiiO FF3 and the 130 Be I tuned.  They are all I need honestly.  I love my TG38, my HE150, and several of my homemade buds including the one I call BAL! because it lines up so well with my neutral target.  Literally nothing ever sounds wacky on this bud.  It also doesn’t sound particularly exciting either and it’s why I decided on developing an ‘exciting’ target that the 130 Be lines up well with.  Nonetheless, this bud never sounds bad.  I’ve spent less than $30 on the BAL! and 130Be combined.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

BTW, I didn't bring my Gryphon with me to the studio so I used the Tempotec Sonata HD Pro I keep handy in my truck's glove compartment with my FF3s when I took a break just now. The HD Pro and the FF3s have some nice synergy going on for sure. It uses a single CS43131 for the DAC chip, which is funny because the Moondrop Dawn uses dual CS43131s and while the FF3s sounded good on it, I thought the overall effect was a little subdued versus the Gryphon for example. You'd think that the HD Pro might have similar issues, but from what I'm hearing so far the combo sounds very tight and controlled in the low end with some extran aggressiveness and sharp note edges that carry through the mids.

Obviously, I am going to have to do some more comparitive listening when I get a chance, but I just wanted to share. Ever since I got my Sonata HD Pro to be a little combo to throw in my pocket, car, etcetera and take anywhere it has managed to surprise me on quite a few occasions. This thing is one heck of a value. Throw in the FF3s which are quite the value powerhouse in their own right and you have one killer little setup on your hands!


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 24, 2022)

Another little nugget I learned last night that I forgot to mention here: For anyone out there who owns the Fiio FF3s and the Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis do yourself a favor and throw the Fiio bass foams that came with the FF3s on the Viridis.

From what I heard last night the bass gains a little more umph and, perhaps more importantly, the high mids to low treble settles just a tad giving it a little bit of a smoother, more linear transition into the sweet airiness of the upper treble. I thought it made a great bud sound even better.

Before trying this, I was using HieGi foams most of the time, but had also used the stock foams and trig rain foams with a silicone ring on occasion as well. The Fiio FF3 Bass Foams are going to end up being my favorite if my impressions from last night persist through more listening sessions.

If anyone else gets a chance to do this, I would love to hear what you think.

BTW @mt877 the bass foams that came with my FF3s are thicker to the touch versus the balanced foams. Is that the case with yours? Or was it @Ronion who was unsure if their bass foams had perhaps been mixed up with balanced or mispackaged/mislabeled from jump street?

Edit: In case it wasn't clear, I meant that the FF3 bass foams were likely to be my favorites on the Viridis from now on. After much experiementation, I still prefer the stock "crisp" donuts on my FF3s. So Fiio treated me to a bunch of good usable foams!


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Another little nugget I learned last night that I forgot to mention here: For anyone out there who owns the Fiio FF3s and the Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis do yourself a favor and throw the Fiio bass foams that came with the FF3s on the Viridis.
> 
> From what I heard last night the bass gains a little more umph and, perhaps more importantly, the high mids to low treble settles just a tad giving it a little bit of a smoother, more linear transition into the sweet airiness of the upper treble. I thought it made a great bud sound even better.
> 
> ...


My problem is that I now use the FiiO bass foams on about everything….  I’m nearly out of them and no way to get more that I know of.  Perhaps FiiO sells them…


----------



## syazwaned

@FiiO hi, do you sell FF3 foam seperately? It seems got attention a lot of people.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 24, 2022)

syazwaned said:


> @FiiO hi, do you sell FF3 foam seperately? It seems got attention a lot of people.



Also @FiiO thanks for the brilliantly executed FF3s and for catering to the criminally underserved audiophile earbud market. The FF3s are truly an awesome pair of earbuds. I can't wait to see what you guys have cooked up for the FF5s. Keep up the good work!


----------



## tgx78 (Aug 24, 2022)

FF3 is here! Good bass extension and smooth soothing sound (with bass foam covers).


----------



## christianfps

Ordered this kinds of tips to try and fix some fitment issues with the FF3. 






Right now I find that after a long session my ears hurt even with the bass foams. Is ii normal? Since I haven't used earbuds for a while.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 24, 2022)

christianfps said:


> Ordered this kinds of tips to try and fix some fitment issues with the FF3.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



When you say your ears hurt do you mean the cartilage or do you mean they hurt from listening as in ringing or fatigue in the inner ear? If the latter you're probably turning up the volume too high or your ears are fatigued by the increased bass or both. If the former, I have no idea why the cartilage would hurt more when using the bass foams versus the others because they are actually thicker/softer.

Don't you think using fins with nozzles attached kinda defeat the purpose of an earbud by inserting something in your ear canal anyways? I also imagine it will have a significant effect on the sound and a shrinking effect on the soundstage. If you just purchased fins without the tips you should be able to stabilize the buds without impacting the sound or soundstage much if at all.

Just some food for thought, but either way I hope you find a solution that works. If you don't mind me asking, what's the fit issue you're having with the FF3s?

Edit: It's important to note that boosted frequencies are often fatiguing to listen to for extended periods of time. That's why transducers that are more neutrally tuned are often best for longer listening sessions. As is lower volume.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

tgx78 said:


> FF3 is here! Good bass extension and smooth soothing sound (with bass foam covers).



Nice pic! The pattern behind the glass on the back of the FF3s is beautiful when it catches the light like that.


----------



## christianfps

JAnonymous5150 said:


> When you say your ears hurt do you mean the cartilage or do you mean they hurt from listening as in ringing or fatigue in the inner ear? If the latter you're probably turning up the volume too high or your ears are fatigued by the increased bass or both. If the former, I have no idea why the cartilage would hurt more when using the bass foams versus the others because they are actually thicker/softer.


Hi! It is the cartilage haha but I think it's just an adjustment phase. I just mentioned the bass foams since they're the ones I'm using and theoretically be thicker and would soften up the contacts to the cartilage.


JAnonymous5150 said:


> Don't you think using fins with nozzles attached kinda defeat the purpose of an earbud by inserting something in your ear canal anyways? I also imagine it will have a significant effect on the sound and a shrinking effect on the soundstage. If you just purchased fins without the tips you should be able to stabilize the buds without impacting the sound or soundstage much if at all.


It's more like an experiment haha we'll see in a week when they arrive.


JAnonymous5150 said:


> If you don't mind me asking, what's the fit issue you're having with the FF3s?


I think my only issue is with my left ear, some part of it is kinda angled and doesn't fit like my right ear. Other than that the FF3s for me are phenomenal. Kinda addicting, I find myself reaching for it just to listen to some music especially when I'm at work haha!


----------



## ttorbic (Aug 24, 2022)

Oooooh lots of goodies (in terms of VE earbuds sound impressions) here: https://forum.hifiguides.com/t/acho-reviews-in-english-spanish/28748/79


----------



## o0genesis0o

Speaking of goodies, is there any impression of the VE Asura 3.0 FE @JAnonymous5150?


----------



## o0genesis0o (Aug 24, 2022)

So, I'm doing critical listening and A/B tests to write up the review for FF3 (Trying to beat @Dsnuts to the review  ). I'm still shocked by the technical performance of this pair (out of KA3 via 4.4mm balanced output). With full foam (warmest and least resolving configuration), FF3 easily keeps up with my Andromeda in surface level details. I have to pay extra attention to small background details and "air" to pick out the difference. Resolution is slightly ahead of my Blessing 2, though I would not say the improvement is day and night, nor even easily noticeable.

I think the measurement from Fiio is without any foam. I hear flatter bass, more ear gain, and more exaggerated note attacks without foam. To put it simply, everything is crisp. Interestingly, the feeling of bass slam is still there even though the seal is not.

Edit: The grand and powerful presentation is not there without the warmth from the bass that I get from foam, though. The most pleasant configuration of FF3 is still with full foam, even though I lose some perceived clarity.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> So, I'm doing critical listening and A/B tests to write up the review for FF3 (Trying to beat @Dsnuts to the review  ). I'm still shocked by the technical performance of this pair (out of KA3 via 4.4mm balanced output). With full foam (warmest and least resolving configuration), FF3 easily keeps up with my Andromeda in surface level details. I have to pay extra attention to small background details and "air" to pick out the difference. Resolution is slightly ahead of my Blessing 2, though I would not say the improvement is day and night, nor even easily noticeable.
> 
> I think the measurement from Fiio is without any foam. I hear flatter bass, more ear gain, and more exaggerated note attacks without foam. To put it simply, everything is crisp. Interestingly, the feeling of bass slam is still there even though the seal is not.
> 
> Edit: The grand and powerful presentation is not there without the warmth from the bass that I get from foam, though. The most pleasant configuration of FF3 is still with full foam, even though I lose some perceived clarity.


FiiO does state that their measurement is without foam.  That’s literally the reason I bought them.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Speaking of goodies, is there any impression of the VE Asura 3.0 FE @JAnonymous5150?



Not yet! I haven't had time to do any demos of the Asure 3.0FE or the Sun Dice yet. The next time I get home from the studio at a reasonable hour the Asura 3.0FE demo is the first thing I have on my to do list. You have my word. The last couple days I have been at the studio from 9AM to between 2AM and 4AM so I have just been heading home and grabbing a few hours sleep before it starts again the next day. It will slow down in the next couple days, though.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> FiiO does state that their measurement is without foam.  That’s literally the reason I bought them.



Why did the measurements being done without foam become your reason for buying them? You'll have to excuse my ignorance if the answer is obvious lol!


----------



## FranQL

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Why did the measurements being done without foam become your reason for buying them? You'll have to excuse my ignorance if the answer is obvious lol!



He associates it with being naked, if there is nudity Ronion is attracted


----------



## mt877 (Aug 24, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Another little nugget I learned last night that I forgot to mention here: For anyone out there who owns the Fiio FF3s and the Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis do yourself a favor and throw the Fiio bass foams that came with the FF3s on the Viridis.
> 
> From what I heard last night the bass gains a little more umph and, perhaps more importantly, the high mids to low treble settles just a tad giving it a little bit of a smoother, more linear transition into the sweet airiness of the upper treble. I thought it made a great bud sound even better.
> 
> ...


I honestly think FiiO included 2 bags of the bass foams with my FF3, but one of them was labeled as balanced. From my "non-standard" measurements of the different foams the FiiO foams aren't that far off from the HieGi foams and the HieGi foams are the thickest I have. I did try swapping bass and balanced back and forth, it didn't change the sound profile for me. Changing to the crisp donut foams definitely changed the sound profile. Anyway I'm enjoying the FF3 with the full foams I got, so all is good.

I also tried the VE foams. The medium and thin VE foams didn't work for me. The VE thick foams were working, but I switched back to the FiiO foams. Why change a good thing, if it ain't broke, don't fix it...

On another note, these are some 32Ω Ti buds I just finished. They sound nice.


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Has anyone here actually gotten/heard the Smabat M4 yet? I am curious to read whether it is just an updated M2s Pro?! The site says that is has changed it, but that could be such a slight change that it might not make much of a difference. Plus, after the "ice pick" fiasco that is the ST20P I am wary to spend another $65 on something that I don't REALLY need...  But I AM curious, and might like a couple of the drivers.


@Headcasey MD said he got the M4 already in this post. Myself and others here who ordered pre-production are still patiently waiting... sigh.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

FranQL said:


> He associates it with being naked, if there is nudity Ronion is attracted



LOL

I have to ask, how do you know so much about Ronion's proclivity towards paying for nudity? Do you have something you'd like to share with the thread FranQL?


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> LOL
> 
> I have to ask, how do you know so much about Ronion's proclivity towards paying for nudity? Do you have something you'd like to share with the thread FranQL?


We have definite proof...


Ronion said:


> Shouldn’t that be a “Debby Downer”?  Oh wait, I think that was the sequel to the famous “Debbie” movie from the 70s.  down chicka brown cow, or is it bow chicka wow wow?





samandhi said:


> Lol! Yeah prolly should have been.
> 
> I think it depends on the person asked, and how much weed mood altering substances have been partaken of at that time.
> 
> But I thought it was "brown chicken, brown cow"?! And I thought that was every adult movie from the 70s?!





mt877 said:


> Get your minds out of the gutter... Here's some real 'pron'...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> We have definite proof...



I had no idea this kinda thing ran so deep with some of the guys around here lol!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 24, 2022)

I don't normally spam a thread with an out-of-topic subject but this is absolutely too good to not post... for the life of me I don't know how I missed that this was coming out but I did! You ready...

Klaus Schulze just released another album!!!  Deus Arrakis (2022)... and man is it a good one! Epic! It literally nearly brought me to tears.


----------



## FranQL (Aug 24, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> LOL
> 
> I have to ask, how do you know so much about Ronion's proclivity towards paying for nudity? Do you have something you'd like to share with the thread FranQL?



I'm also attracted to nudes!!!!! I can not deny it!

and for the beauty, check this out


----------



## jeejack

Retuned Ks64


----------



## Stevehamny

tgx78 said:


> FF3 is here! Good bass extension and smooth soothing sound (with bass foam covers).


As someone with a good ear for instrumental timbre, how well do you think the FF3 handles Classical music? 

I'll be more specific, because "Classical" can mean several different subgenres: How does it handle the timbral needs of a busy string quartet? (Too warm? Or perhaps the adjustable tuning foams can help here?) And how does it handle solo piano? (Very different instrument, as of course you know. Not so hard to make a recording sound okay, but getting it dead perfect is another ballgame.)

(@JAnonymous5150 or anyone else with the FF3, please add your take if you have one! Thanks!)


----------



## ttorbic

Stevehamny said:


> As someone with a good ear for instrumental timbre, how well do you think the FF3 handles Classical music?
> 
> I'll be more specific, because "Classical" can mean several different subgenres: How does it handle the timbral needs of a busy string quartet? (Too warm? Or perhaps the adjustable tuning foams can help here?) And how does it handle solo piano? (Very different instrument, as of course you know. Not so hard to make a recording sound okay, but getting it dead perfect is another ballgame.)
> 
> (@JAnonymous5150 or anyone else with the FF3, please add your take if you have one! Thanks!)


You are indeed asking the right person! I know you asked about the FF3, but just to share my 2 cents, @tgx78's Serratus has fantastic timbre. By timbre, I mean the instruments sound very realistic. I have listened to violin & cello sonatas and concertos, and they sound as organic as I remember them to be (having played cello for many years and in orchestra). I think piano timbre is nice too.


----------



## Stevehamny (Aug 24, 2022)

ttorbic said:


> You are indeed asking the right person! I know you asked about the FF3, but just to share my 2 cents, @tgx78's Serratus has fantastic timbre. By timbre, I mean the instruments sound very realistic. I have listened to violin & cello sonatas and concertos, and they sound as organic as I remember them to be (having played cello for many years and in orchestra). I think piano timbre is nice too.


No doubt that anything @tgx78 touches will have master-class instrumental timbre! (It's an amazing time in this particular hobby, isn't it? Like having backyard builders turning out automobiles that rival Ford's Model A!) I'm just wondering how a well-regarded commercial bud like the FF3 can compare.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Aug 24, 2022)

Stevehamny said:


> As someone with a good ear for instrumental timbre, how well do you think the FF3 handles Classical music?
> 
> I'll be more specific, because "Classical" can mean several different subgenres: How does it handle the timbral needs of a busy string quartet? (Too warm? Or perhaps the adjustable tuning foams can help here?) And how does it handle solo piano? (Very different instrument, as of course you know. Not so hard to make a recording sound okay, but getting it dead perfect is another ballgame.)
> 
> (@JAnonymous5150 or anyone else with the FF3, please add your take if you have one! Thanks!)



Busy string quartets: check. It handles Presto movement of Summer (performed by Janine Jansen) easily. Nothing overlaps, cello has rumble, violin is textured and detailed down to the bow stick slapping against the string.

Piano solo: check. Lang Lang performance of Goldberg Variations has excellent dynamic contrast, even between p and pp.

FYI, I used to record harmonica cover for fun, practice violin nowadays, and has a piano for decoration, since no one wants to practice it anymore.

Regarding foam, you essentially have 3 sound signature with FF3 depending on the amount of foam you put on. The more you cover the face of FF3, the warmer it becomes. I found full foam (balance) the most versatile, though no foam is good for meditative piano works.


----------



## samandhi

Stevehamny said:


> As someone with a good ear for instrumental timbre, how well do you think the FF3 handles Classical music?
> 
> I'll be more specific, because "Classical" can mean several different subgenres: How does it handle the timbral needs of a busy string quartet? (Too warm? Or perhaps the adjustable tuning foams can help here?) And how does it handle solo piano? (Very different instrument, as of course you know. Not so hard to make a recording sound okay, but getting it dead perfect is another ballgame.)
> 
> (@JAnonymous5150 or anyone else with the FF3, please add your take if you have one! Thanks!)





o0genesis0o said:


> Busy string quartets: check. It handles Presto movement of Summer (performed by Janine Jansen) easily. Nothing overlaps, cello has rumble, violin is textured and detailed down to the bow stick slapping against the string.
> 
> Piano solo: check. Lang Lang performance of Goldberg Variations has excellent dynamic contrast, even between p and pp.
> 
> ...


I have to agree with @o0genesis0o here but with one difference (or addition depending on how one looks at it). (only my personal opinions to follow, very few actual facts)

I find that using the "balanced" or "bass" foams work best for solo piano (though any song with some good _PF_ (adj.) will also stand out fairly well given the excellent dynamics to be had from these) more so because of the added (perception of) lows adding a rounded flavor to the "natural(ness)" that the FF3 can exhibit. With "crisp" or no foams, I don't find the piano to sound quite as good (more aggressive, and sharp) as a solo sound. Though piano in this form sounds really good mixed in songs by the likes Elton John, Billy Joel, Blues Brothers, Lynyrd Skynyrd, etc...

Strings can benefit from both "balanced" and "bass" foams also, but the clarity one gets from "crisp" or even no foams can be either "God's" song (if you don't mind a bit aggressive), or a bit shouty if you are sensitive to such things. Either way, I find no issue with separation (staging) nor layering (dynamics) so these can handle it very well IMO.

These buds are very solid performers for pretty much anything one throws at it (again, IMHO). I don't think you can go wrong with these, AND they work with pretty much any source (although they don't sound very good with lower quality files, though that could just be my ears being so used to higher resolution files).


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> FiiO does state that their measurement is without foam.  That’s literally the reason I bought them.



You and your nakedness   Fiio did mentioned “normal wearing condition without foam” on the website. To my ears, the graph seems correct when I use Ff3 without foam.








JAnonymous5150 said:


> Not yet! I haven't had time to do any demos of the Asure 3.0FE or the Sun Dice yet. The next time I get home from the studio at a reasonable hour the Asura 3.0FE demo is the first thing I have on my to do list. You have my word. The last couple days I have been at the studio from 9AM to between 2AM and 4AM so I have just been heading home and grabbing a few hours sleep before it starts again the next day. It will slow down in the next couple days, though.



No pressure mate. Just checking, not demanding


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> You and your nakedness  Fiio did mentioned “normal wearing condition without foam” on the website. To my ears, the graph seems correct when I use Ff3 without foam.


Didn't you know? @Ronion means; "nude" in the native American tongue...


----------



## MelodyMood

MelodyMood said:


> Did anyone use YD30 with Silver Cable? How is the sound? Does it has clear sound with warmness and bass?


Any comment? Any one used YD30? How's the sound with both the cables?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

MelodyMood said:


> Any comment? Any one used YD30? How's the sound with both the cables?



I'm sorry, but I haven't tried either version of the YD30 earbuds from NiceHCK. I had seen them a few times while shopping around for buds, but they just never made it into my cart. I hope someone that has can help you out since you seem to be pretty interested in them. What has you looking at the YD30s so hard, if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## fooltoque

WoodyLuvr said:


> I don't normally spam a thread with an out-of-topic subject but this is absolutely too good to not post... for the life of me I don't know how I missed that this was coming out but I did! You ready...
> 
> Klaus Schulze just released another album!!!  Deus Arrakis (2022)... and man is it a good one! Epic! It literally nearly brought me to tears.



Osiris part 2 gives me Portal 2 testing chamber vibes.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> You and your nakedness   Fiio did mentioned “normal wearing condition without foam” on the website. To my ears, the graph seems correct when I use Ff3 without foam.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Whatever bro. I know a threat when I read one...🥺


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Whatever bro. I know a threat when I read one...🥺


Mrs. 🦚 with the in the ?!


----------



## samandhi

@WoodyLuvr 
Thanks for the rec good sir! I had to listen to it twice; once with earbuds, and then again with the Focals....


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> then again with the Focals....


flexing the Focal, aren't we. We use buds with great performance / price ratio here, sir


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Mrs. 🦚 with the in the ?!



LOL! Well played sir.



samandhi said:


> @WoodyLuvr
> Thanks for the rec good sir! I had to listen to it twice; once with earbuds, and then again with the Focals....



I'm looking forward to checking this out on my Stealths with the desktop rig when I get home, but I'm having a smoke break listening to the album on the FF3s right now and it sounds pretty tasty!


----------



## samandhi

samandhi said:


> Mrs. 🦚with thein the ?!


OR... will it be:

Mr. 🥁 with the🕎 in the  studio?!


----------



## samandhi (Aug 24, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> flexing the Focal, aren't we. We use buds with great performance / price ratio here, sir


LOL...

Edit: I know, I should be careful here. @WoodyLuvr might send an evil assassin just for mentioning h***ph***s or I*ms...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> OR... will it be:
> 
> Mr. 🥁 with the🕎 in the  studio?!



Mr. Snare Drum with the minorah in the recording studio?!?!?! I'm at the studio right now, but I don't know who Mr. Snare Drum is and I don't see any minorahs!!! Give me more details! This could be life or death!

Unless, I'm Mr. Snare Drum...In which case, I would probably tell you to quit being a snitch. It's already gonna be hard enough to get away with murdering someone with a minorah!

LOL


----------



## samandhi (Aug 24, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Mr. Snare Drum with the minorah in the recording studio?!?!?! I'm at the studio right now, but I don't know who Mr. Snare Drum is and I don't see any minorahs!!! Give me more details! This could be life or death!
> 
> Unless, I'm Mr. Snare Drum...In which case, I would probably tell you to quit being a snitch. It's already gonna be hard enough to get away with murdering someone with a minorah!
> 
> LOL


LOL love it! 

And touché.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

P.S. The RikuBuds Rider 1s arrived today and my girl is headed to pick them up as we speak. I won't be able to give them a listen til later on tonight most likely though.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> P.S. The RikuBuds Rider 1s arrived today and my girl is headed to pick them up as we speak. I won't be able to give them a listen til later on tonight most likely though.


Did you order just the one pair, or multiple ones from Riku?


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Why did the measurements being done without foam become your reason for buying them? You'll have to excuse my ignorance if the answer is obvious lol!


Because it’s the worst case scenario as far as bass response goes and the fact that their pinna gain is too high.  Adding foams will change the response in this fashion to various degrees depending on the foam.





FranQL said:


> He associates it with being naked, if there is nudity Ronion is attracted


I just shook my Magic 8 Ball and it said “without a doubt”.


JAnonymous5150 said:


> LOL
> 
> I have to ask, how do you know so much about Ronion's proclivity towards paying for nudity? Do you have something you'd like to share with the thread FranQL?


I don’t pay for it.  My computer is riddled with viruses.


JAnonymous5150 said:


> I had no idea this kinda thing ran so deep with some of the guys around here lol!


Exactly what she said.


o0genesis0o said:


> You and your nakedness   Fiio did mentioned “normal wearing condition without foam” on the website. To my ears, the graph seems correct when I use Ff3 without foam.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





They also say this and they said in the initial thread about the bud that their Engineers recommend the Treble foams.  I wouldn’t put much stock in anything written on their marketing material particularly in English.  Anyway, do what Makes you happy.  I’m sure these buds au naturale won’t be it however.


----------



## samandhi (Aug 24, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Because it’s the worst case scenario as far as bass response goes and the fact that their pinna gain is too high.  Adding foams will change the response in this fashion to various degrees depending on the foam.
> 
> I just shook my Magic 8 Ball and it said “without a doubt”.
> 
> ...


Damn bro, you are on a roll this evening... LOL

I tried with no foams and boy are they sound really shouty to me... I settled on the "balanced" foams and I think it is a good compromise between the two IMHO. Not as smooth as with bass foams, and not as aggressive as with no foams or "crisp" foams.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> Because it’s the worst case scenario as far as bass response goes and the fact that their pinna gain is too high.  Adding foams will change the response in this fashion to various degrees depending on the foam.
> 
> I just shook my Magic 8 Ball and it said “without a doubt”.
> 
> ...



The part when they brag about their bass extension and measurement has a footnote that "normal listening condition without foam", so I guess that they measure without foam. Without foam, the upper midrange is higher and the bass is flat line, almost identical sounding to my ER2SE, which is well measured across multiple sources and rigs. That's why I suspect the graph on the website is without foam. Not my favourite configuration, but my wife likes it more for piano music. I think the foam reduces the ear gain rather than boosting bass, because I need to turn up the volume to compensate the dropped midrange when adding foams.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> The part when they brag about their bass extension and measurement has a footnote that "normal listening condition without foam", so I guess that they measure without foam. Without foam, the upper midrange is higher and the bass is flat line, almost identical sounding to my ER2SE, which is well measured across multiple sources and rigs. That's why I suspect the graph on the website is without foam. Not my favourite configuration, but my wife likes it more for piano music. I think the foam reduces the ear gain rather than boosting bass, because I need to turn up the volume to compensate the dropped midrange when adding foams.


Hence the reason I originally joked about them really being very noticeable filters (which they actually are in this case).


----------



## qua2k

Step away for a few days only and bam, 25 pages to read.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

I know this question has probably been asked at least a million times here, but I'm bored and would like to see what the answers are. 

If, for whatever reason, you were forced to get rid of your entire collection except for a single pair of earbuds, what pair of buds are you keeping? It has to be a pair you currently own and of course you are supposed to assume that you are allowed to keep whatever source/DAC/amp/combo that you need to run them properly.


----------



## EMEM2049 (Aug 24, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I know this question has probably been asked at least a million times here, but I'm bored and would like to see what the answers are.
> 
> If, for whatever reason, you were forced to get rid of your entire collection except for a single pair of earbuds, what pair of buds are you keeping? It has to be a pair you currently own and of course you are supposed to assume that you are allowed to keep whatever source/DAC/amp/combo that you need to run them properly.


My Final B1's. I've used some great IEMs over the years. Denon AH-C821, Denon Ah-C250, MEE P1, Grade GR10e, Fender FXA7, Final F4100, Final F7200, so on, so forth, but the Final B1's just match what I want in terms of both the fidelity and signature of the sound. They don't offer an accurate replication of music per se, but they are just a joy to listen to. You need some OOMF to power them though, they remind me of the MEE's I once owned, but the Final's are just a great overall package. Looks, erganomics, build qulaity, sound, features, and such. I do miss the compactness of the F7200's though and that GORGEOUS style of the MEE's.
EDIT: As for the DAp, best I've used is an SP100M A&K. I run my AR-M2 as my daily and my father has the Astell, but my goodness, even though the AR-M2 is incredible (slightly nicer sounding than my old HiFiMan HM-802s), the SP100M is another league ahead.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I know this question has probably been asked at least a million times here, but I'm bored and would like to see what the answers are.
> 
> If, for whatever reason, you were forced to get rid of your entire collection except for a single pair of earbuds, what pair of buds are you keeping? It has to be a pair you currently own and of course you are supposed to assume that you are allowed to keep whatever source/DAC/amp/combo that you need to run them properly.


For me, not a super simple answer. Truly serious consideration would come by way of the Yinman 2.0, the FiiO FF3 and the winner... FQL Blackhole Redux. The rest are too narrow in their focus or are lacking in some area to be considered for the rest of my life IMO.

Good question though!



Spoiler











EMEM2049 said:


> My Final B1's. I've used some great IEMs over the years. Denon AH-C821, Denon Ah-C250, MEE P1, Grade GR10e, Fender FXA7, Final F4100, Final F7200, so on, so forth, but the Final B1's just match what I want in terms of both the fidelity and signature of the sound. They don't offer an accurate replication of music per se, but they are just a joy to listen to. You need some OOMF to power them though, they remind me of the MEE's I once owned, but the Final's are just a great overall package. Looks, erganomics, build qulaity, sound, features, and such. I do miss the compactness of the F7200's though and that GORGEOUS style of the MEE's.
> EDIT: As for the DAp, best I've used is an SP100M A&K. I run my AR-M2 as my daily and my father has the Astell, but my goodness, even though the AR-M2 is incredible (slightly nicer sounding than my old HiFiMan HM-802s), the SP100M is another league ahead.


Nice answer, though he DID say earbuds...


----------



## EMEM2049

samandhi said:


> Nice answer, though he DID say earbuds...


True haha


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I know this question has probably been asked at least a million times here, but I'm bored and would like to see what the answers are.
> 
> If, for whatever reason, you were forced to get rid of your entire collection except for a single pair of earbuds, what pair of buds are you keeping? It has to be a pair you currently own and of course you are supposed to assume that you are allowed to keep whatever source/DAC/amp/combo that you need to run them properly.


I would ask the same of you, however you haven't stopped collecting long enough to even enjoy one pair for very long yet...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Truly serious consideration would come by way of the Yinman 2.0, the FiiO FF3 and the winner... FQL Blackhole Redux.



It sounds like I need to try these Blackhole Redux buds out!


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I know this question has probably been asked at least a million times here, but I'm bored and would like to see what the answers are.
> 
> If, for whatever reason, you were forced to get rid of your entire collection except for a single pair of earbuds, what pair of buds are you keeping? It has to be a pair you currently own and of course you are supposed to assume that you are allowed to keep whatever source/DAC/amp/combo that you need to run them properly.



Easy, FF3. That’s the only one I have. Luckily it’s a good one.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 24, 2022)

samandhi said:


> I would ask the same of you, however you haven't stopped collecting long enough to even enjoy one pair for very long yet...



Haha! I had to pack a lot of collecting into a short time so I could catch up to some of you guys! 😁 

Honestly though, my Ucotech ES-P1s just do something special for me so they would be my answer. The FF3s, Simphonio Dragon 3s, and the Aiwa HP-V99s would be honorable mentions.

Edit: I could be happy with any of the buds I just mentioned, BTW.


----------



## fooltoque

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I know this question has probably been asked at least a million times here, but I'm bored and would like to see what the answers are.
> 
> If, for whatever reason, you were forced to get rid of your entire collection except for a single pair of earbuds, what pair of buds are you keeping? It has to be a pair you currently own and of course you are supposed to assume that you are allowed to keep whatever source/DAC/amp/combo that you need to run them properly.


My options are:
- FiiO EM5
- JVC Gumy Earbuds

So I'm very sorry, but I would need to get rid of my entire Gumy collection... by a hair! (A large hair).

Please ask me again in a few weeks (hopefully). I am in the process of ordering a Rikubuds Berzerker 1.


----------



## qua2k

Up to date now, 25 pages and a few comments, nothing but good (except for naked left bud) on the FF3 so I should probably see what they are like. I do like the swappable terminations, nice touch. FF5 is one to look out for. And finally @FranQL and I need to get together because I need to try.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

fooltoque said:


> My options are:
> - FiiO EM5
> - JVC Gumy Earbuds
> 
> ...



Those Gumys are underrated, though. I don't know which model they are, but I have a black pair that I have misplaced somewhere that were a pretty darm good budget bud. They definitely don't hold up against the EM5s though lol!


----------



## fooltoque (Aug 25, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Those Gumys are underrated, though. I don't know which model they are, but I have a black pair that I have misplaced somewhere that were a pretty darm good budget bud. They definitely don't hold up against the EM5s though lol!


They are HA-F150-B https://www.walmart.com/ip/JVC-Gumy-Earbuds-Black-HA-F150-B/16439883

I did a back and forth listening test with them against the EM5s just to make sure (for science) before I posted. You're right, they are not so bad, but.... yeah I stand by my decision to keep the EM5s


----------



## christianfps

Th


JAnonymous5150 said:


> If, for whatever reason, you were forced to get rid of your entire collection except for a single pair of earbuds, what pair of buds are you keeping? It has to be a pair you currently own and of course you are supposed to assume that you are allowed to keep whatever source/DAC/amp/combo that you need to run them properly.


The FF3s are the only one I have but they are so amazing! To those who have nice fitment with the FF3s I envy you haha! 

I just noticed that the FF3s have 2 vents on each bud? 😮


----------



## o0genesis0o

christianfps said:


> Th
> 
> The FF3s are the only one I have but they are so amazing! To those who have nice fitment with the FF3s I envy you haha!
> 
> I just noticed that the FF3s have 2 vents on each bud? 😮


The one that you show is similar to back vents on IEM. There is also another set of vents hidden under the foams. If you remove the foam, you will see them. i think they are similar to the vents covered by horse shoe foams in Mx500 shell.


----------



## yaps66

WoodyLuvr said:


> I don't normally spam a thread with an out-of-topic subject but this is absolutely too good to not post... for the life of me I don't know how I missed that this was coming out but I did! You ready...
> 
> Klaus Schulze just released another album!!!  Deus Arrakis (2022)... and man is it a good one! Epic! It literally nearly brought me to tears.



Thanks fop this! Beautiful. Purchased!


----------



## yaps66

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I know this question has probably been asked at least a million times here, but I'm bored and would like to see what the answers are.
> 
> If, for whatever reason, you were forced to get rid of your entire collection except for a single pair of earbuds, what pair of buds are you keeping? It has to be a pair you currently own and of course you are supposed to assume that you are allowed to keep whatever source/DAC/amp/combo that you need to run them properly.


Easy: Longyao Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600Ω Limited Edition


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 25, 2022)

EMEM2049 said:


> My Final B1's. I've used some great IEMs over the years. Denon AH-C821, Denon Ah-C250, MEE P1, Grade GR10e, Fender FXA7, Final F4100, Final F7200, so on, so forth, but the Final B1's just match what I want in terms of both the fidelity and signature of the sound. They don't offer an accurate replication of music per se, but they are just a joy to listen to. You need some OOMF to power them though, they remind me of the MEE's I once owned, but the Final's are just a great overall package. Looks, erganomics, build qulaity, sound, features, and such. I do miss the compactness of the F7200's though and that GORGEOUS style of the MEE's.
> EDIT: As for the DAp, best I've used is an SP100M A&K. I run my AR-M2 as my daily and my father has the Astell, but my goodness, even though the AR-M2 is incredible (slightly nicer sounding than my old HiFiMan HM-802s), the SP100M is another league ahead.



I know they aren't buds, but I have heard the Final B1s and they're a good IEM for sure. I have only ever heard the AH-C620R as far as Denon in ears go, but they were actually a pretty fun, bassy pair too. If the AH-C821s sound anything like them you could defintely do worse than them if forced to give up the B1s in this hypothetical too lol!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

jeejack said:


> Retuned Ks64



How'd you retune the K's64 if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## EMEM2049

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I know they aren't buds, but I have heard the Final B1s and their a good IEM for sure. I have only ever heard the AH-C620R as far as Denon in ears go, but they were actually a pretty fun, bassy pair too. If the AH-C821s sound anything like them you could defintely do worse than them if forced to give up the B1s in this hypothetical too lol!


The AH-C821 are essentailly exactly how you described the AH-C620R. The best thing about them was that they could be driven easily by anything, even my terrible Samsung J7 and J6 phones I had at the time, whereas my old Mee P1's, although incredible, needed a DAP. They sounded awful on anything less, same with the B1's.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Stevehamny said:


> As someone with a good ear for instrumental timbre, how well do you think the FF3 handles Classical music?
> 
> I'll be more specific, because "Classical" can mean several different subgenres: How does it handle the timbral needs of a busy string quartet? (Too warm? Or perhaps the adjustable tuning foams can help here?) And how does it handle solo piano? (Very different instrument, as of course you know. Not so hard to make a recording sound okay, but getting it dead perfect is another ballgame.)
> 
> (@JAnonymous5150 or anyone else with the FF3, please add your take if you have one! Thanks!)



What @o0genesis0o and @samandhi have already said covers this pretty well, but I would like to add a slightly different perspective since my ears and upper mid tolerance and preference is a little different than many others here, like the two previously mentioned, who prefer the bass or balanced foams. For me the bass foams of the FF3s round off the clarity from those upper mids a bit too much. The balanced foams are okay and would be my recommendation for someone looking to listen to a string quartet piece or something piano driven that thinks the FF3's upper mids are a bit too much.

However, I have a beautiful vintage Steinway grand piano in my music room that was my grandmother's and is now mine. I use it for songwriting even though I am nowhere near talented enough on the Piano to do it justice. I mention the piano because that Steinway is my reference piano tone and it has always sounded so damn beautiful to me. If I want to hear the clarity, air, and resonance that a great piano like this infuses into a piece, especially in the upper half to one third of its range, the crisp donuts are the foams I would choose to go with on the FF3s.

For those of you that think the donuts leave things a little too shouty, but like the clarity they bring, I have been experiementing with the donuts over a pair of silicone rings. I didn't get much listening time with them yet and what listening I did do was to jazz trumpet pieces because of some timbral effects I was studying, but based on the little I heard, this may be worth a look.

Long story short, as someone who is perhaps less sensitive to that upper mid region, the crisp donuts are my pick for upper string and piano centric pieces for sure. To be frank, I actually prefer the donuts pretty much all the time and I leave them on my FF3s, rarely changing them for some specific pieces/albums/playlists.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> What @o0genesis0o and @samandhi have already said covers this pretty well, but I would like to add a slightly different perspective since my ears and upper mid tolerance and preference is a little different than many others here, like the two previously mentioned, who prefer the bass or balanced foams. For me the bass foams of the FF3s round off the clarity from those upper mids a bit too much. The balanced foams are okay and would be my recommendation for someone looking to listen to a string quartet piece or something piano driven that thinks the FF3's upper mids are a bit too much.
> 
> However, I have a beautiful vintage Steinway grand piano in my music room that was my grandmother's and is now mine. I use it for songwriting even though I am nowhere near talented enough on the Piano to do it justice. I mention the piano because that Steinway is my reference piano tone and it has always sounded so damn beautiful to me. If I want to hear the clarity, air, and resonance that a great piano like this infuses into a piece, especially in the upper half to one third of its range, the crisp donuts are the foams I would choose to go with on the FF3s.
> 
> ...


If you can listen to maria II and don' think them "shouty" then I wouldn't call it less sensitive, but instead I would call it immune, invulnerable, no kryptonite... 

I actually envy that though, because some of my other buds would be MUCH higher on my list if I shared that trait. The Smabat M2s Pro are a perfect example. That shouty tuning sounds actually sounds really good (if it didn't hurt my ears), I just can't listen at any sort of volume at all (they are great for low volume listening; read "home" listening).


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> However, I have a beautiful vintage Steinway grand piano in my music room that was my grandmother's and is now mine. I use it for songwriting even though I am nowhere near talented enough on the Piano to do it justice.



Mate, you really have done anything audio related   

Re FF3: My preference also see saws between balance and donut foams. Sometimes donuts are too shrill, other times they are just fine.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Mate, you really have done anything audio related
> 
> Re FF3: My preference also see saws between balance and donut foams. Sometimes donuts are too shrill, other times they are just fine.


Until you have done a digeridoo solo on stage you haven't completed your full range of audio experiences.... Just saying!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

christianfps said:


> To those who have nice fitment with the FF3s I envy you haha!



BTW, aside from those nozzle-fin hybrids you're trying, you may want to just give a simple pair of silicone rings a shot as well. Sometimes the increased diameter and the anti-slip/movement properties of the rings are enough to change and stabilize a bud's fit. It has worked for me before for sure.


----------



## jeejack

JAnonymous5150 said:


> How'd you retune the K's64 if you don't mind me asking?


I got rid of the shiny surface inside the shell 😉


----------



## Ronion (Aug 25, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> The part when they brag about their bass extension and measurement has a footnote that "normal listening condition without foam", so I guess that they measure without foam. Without foam, the upper midrange is higher and the bass is flat line, almost identical sounding to my ER2SE, which is well measured across multiple sources and rigs. That's why I suspect the graph on the website is without foam. Not my favourite configuration, but my wife likes it more for piano music. I think the foam reduces the ear gain rather than boosting bass, because I need to turn up the volume to compensate the dropped midrange when adding foams.


I bet what they mean by that is that the buds are sitting in the tragus notch/concha.  IOW, a translation type issue.  

That would be exactly what the 50 or so graphs I’ve made of the situation would indicate.  When you wear them with foams and without, this will be readily apparent.  I’m trying to figure out what this line of discussion is about.  You kind of keep going through it.  I know you’ve read and commented on all this before.  Did you have a question?  I may be able to help.  Of course I may not… Never know until you ask.

It also seems that as the foams get older, they couple better and you get more bass and less pinna gain…. I want to see it on more buds.  The FiiO are very capable of making that wobble wobble and that may be exaggerating how much that effect compared to other buds.


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I know this question has probably been asked at least a million times here, but I'm bored and would like to see what the answers are.
> 
> If, for whatever reason, you were forced to get rid of your entire collection except for a single pair of earbuds, what pair of buds are you keeping? It has to be a pair you currently own and of course you are supposed to assume that you are allowed to keep whatever source/DAC/amp/combo that you need to run them properly.


My 130Be


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Until you have done a digeridoo solo on stage you haven't completed your full range of audio experiences.... Just saying!



Do bagpipes count? I learned and played a bagpipe rendition of our school song for my high school's graduation lol! Our music teacher that normally did it every year was in the hospital, but I had messed around on the pipes before so he asked me to try and had his friend help me with it for two weeks. I think my mom still has it on video and I wasn't too terrible actually. So yeah, bagpipes and the sitar are as far out as I have experimented, but never the digeridoo lol!

I think I'll just stick to my drums and saxophone for now though. You know, the instruments that I actually play well 😆


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> I bet what they mean by that is that the buds are sitting in the tragus notch/concha.  IOW, a translation type issue.
> 
> That would be exactly what the 50 or so graphs I’ve made of the situation would indicate.  When you wear them with foams and without, this will be readily apparent.  I’m trying to figure out what this line of discussion is about.  You kind of keep going through it.  I know you’ve read and commented on all this before.  Did you have a question?  I may be able to help.  Of course I may not… Never know until you ask.
> 
> It also seems that as the foams get older, they couple better and you get more bass and less pinna gain…. I want to see it on more buds.  The FiiO are very capable of making that wobble wobble and that may be exaggerating how much that effect compared to other buds.



You _asked_ whether Fiio measured FF3 without foam, so I reply to that question because I saw some indicators from both advertising materials and my ears that the graph seems to be based on measurement without foam, by placing the buds in the artificial ears of the A&K HATS. 

I have zero further questions nor discussion about the measurements. Either I get a pair of artificial ears and measure with some resemblance of realism like what you and Fiio did, or I seal the buds into the coupler and measure the driver performance in sealed space like @FranQL (I assume) and other manufacturers, showing massive bass bump.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> If you can listen to maria II and don' think them "shouty" then I wouldn't call it less sensitive, but instead I would call it immune, invulnerable, no kryptonite...
> 
> I actually envy that though, because some of my other buds would be MUCH higher on my list if I shared that trait. The Smabat M2s Pro are a perfect example. That shouty tuning sounds actually sounds really good (if it didn't hurt my ears), I just can't listen at any sort of volume at all (they are great for low volume listening; read "home" listening).



The Maria IIs ride very close to the line and on rare occasion they go over even for me, but when they go right up to that line it gives this delicate, ethereal quality to the music making it seem like it might blow away on a light wind or something, but it sounds so so good when it gets that right! Certainly not the most versatile earbud, but it does that particular flavor on a world-class level, IMO.

And, for the record, I am very fortunate to have always had ears that can tolerate and enjoy a very wide sonic range and an equally wide range of intensities and contrasts that allows me to get along well with all kinds of gear. Now you've uncovered the driving force behind me having such a large collection audio chain components and transducers lol!


----------



## FranQL (Aug 25, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> You _asked_ whether Fiio measured FF3 without foam, so I reply to that question because I saw some indicators from both advertising materials and my ears that the graph seems to be based on measurement without foam, by placing the buds in the artificial ears of the A&K HATS.
> 
> I have zero further questions nor discussion about the measurements. Either I get a pair of artificial ears and measure with some resemblance of realism like what you and Fiio did, or I seal the buds into the coupler and measure the driver performance in sealed space like @FranQL (I assume) and other manufacturers, showing massive bass bump.



I use the coupler that @furyossa  designed, I don't measure sealed not pressing, I imitate how the bud would be in the ear.

These graphs lack rigor and should not be taken into account as reliable data in any case. I make them when the bud is finished, just to see what they look like.
I have pending things to buy a red ear, at the recommendation of @Ronion


----------



## o0genesis0o

FranQL said:


> I use the coupler that @furyossa  designed, I don't measure sealed not pressing, I imitate how the bud would be in the ear



Thanks for correcting. So those massive bump below 1k is real on the buds you measured the other day? Strange


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 25, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Until you have done a digeridoo solo on stage you haven't completed your full range of audio experiences.... Just saying!



I forgot, I have also played something called an Electronic Wind Instrument made by Akai. It lets you use samples like a synth/keys module and play them with intensity and tonal changes that respond to you blowing in it or changing your embrochure (musician speak for mouth's position and grip on the mouth piece) and you can change what key and even octave the samples are played on relative to the original sampled sound using the keys. It's a weird instrument to learn and play, but lots of fun once you start getting it. I haven't messed around on one in years, but its pretty weird. Does that qualify me for digeridoo level experience?


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> You _asked_ whether Fiio measured FF3 without foam, so I reply to that question because I saw some indicators from both advertising materials and my ears that the graph seems to be based on measurement without foam, by placing the buds in the artificial ears of the A&K HATS.
> 
> I have zero further questions nor discussion about the measurements. Either I get a pair of artificial ears and measure with some resemblance of realism like what you and Fiio did, or I seal the buds into the coupler and measure the driver performance in sealed space like @FranQL (I assume) and other manufacturers, showing massive bass bump.


I never asked that.  I knew that from the first time I read about the buds.  I told you they were measured without foams and that’s why I bought them, but I have mentioned it several times on both this thread and FiiO’s thread.  If they had measured like that with foams on, I wouldn’t have touched them with a ten foot pole.


----------



## FranQL (Aug 25, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Thanks for correcting. So those massive bump below 1k is real on the buds you measured the other day? Strange



I am not competent in that subject, so I cannot answer you, that is what I use and only as a curiosity, nothing at a higher level

Edit: I'm a genius, when placing the coupler I have pulled harder than normal and I just broke my IMM6, wow, I won't be able to snoop anymore, too bad....


----------



## mochill

mt877 said:


> @Headcasey MD said he got the M4 already in this post. Myself and others here who ordered pre-production are still patiently waiting... sigh.


Mine shipped


----------



## JAnonymous5150

FranQL said:


> I am not competent in that subject, so I cannot answer you, that is what I use and only as a curiosity, nothing at a higher level
> 
> Edit: I'm a genius, when placing the coupler I have pulled harder than normal and I just broke my IMM6, wow, I won't be able to snoop anymore, too bad....



I sorry to hear of the untimely death of your coupler, bro. Please accept my condolences.


----------



## jeejack

FranQL said:


> I am not competent in that subject, so I cannot answer you, that is what I use and only as a curiosity, nothing at a higher level
> 
> Edit: I'm a genius, when placing the coupler I have pulled harder than normal and I just broke my IMM6, wow, I won't be able to snoop anymore, too bad....


We will fix it hermano!


----------



## gylyf

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I know this question has probably been asked at least a million times here, but I'm bored and would like to see what the answers are.
> 
> If, for whatever reason, you were forced to get rid of your entire collection except for a single pair of earbuds, what pair of buds are you keeping? It has to be a pair you currently own and of course you are supposed to assume that you are allowed to keep whatever source/DAC/amp/combo that you need to run them properly.


I'm listening to my Newbsound 32x out of my Soekris dac2541/Lyr 3 pairing and it's hard for me to imagine a more satisfying listen for the types of music I listen to (at the moment, Wilco's latest). Then again, I have the FF3s coming tomorrow, so that might change...


----------



## fooltoque

I was finally able to properly (well at least to my limited knowledge) EQ my EM5s to a comfortable listening profile. 

I changed my bluetooth source from Shanling UP5 to Earsone ES100 MK2. Before you blast me for not getting a Qudelix-5K, I was totally planning to get one. They were cheap on Amazon Japan even ...until I looked at the shipping price which was the same price as the unit.

Problems with the UP5
1) No belt clip -> fixed with the ES100
2) Bluetooth connectivity problems forced me to connect with "Best effort" rather than "Best quality" -> fixed with the ES100
3) Kinda chonky. I mean not compared to a regular DAP, but considering you still need your phone to play I wanted something small. -> fixed with the ES100
4) EQ is totally unusable and changes don't persist between sessions -> fixed with the ES100
5) Buttons are hard to use intuitively and I routinely made mistakes -> mostly fixed with the ES100

So after fiddling with the EQ for a while I was able to get a profile that gets rid of some of the harshness (to my ears) of the EM5s. It is a breath of fresh air to listen to them now. I had mentioned before that sometimes I liked to switch to my Blessing 2 IEMs for more clarity. I don't feel like I need to do that anymore. The Blessing 2s will probably be relegated entirely to train duty. I think the bulk of the change is from EQ, but bluetooth connectivity issues on the UP5 were also stopping me from the highest quality data transfer.


----------



## jao29

Looks like Yincrow has a new earbud model named “Calf”.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

jao29 said:


> Looks like Yincrow has a new earbud model named “Calf”.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-17102784

Yincrow 音可若瓦 TIMELINE


----------



## jao29

WoodyLuvr said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-17102784
> 
> Yincrow 音可若瓦 TIMELINE


Oh. So the “Calf” version is the Rw-1000 Bass version?


----------



## rkw

o0genesis0o said:


> The part when they brag about their bass extension and measurement has a footnote that "normal listening condition without foam", so I guess that they measure without foam.


I'm sure that they measure every possible combination, with and without foam. For their marketing material, they will selectively choose the one shows what they want to highlight about the product. That's how it works in all businesses selling to the public.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

gylyf said:


> I'm listening to my Newbsound 32x out of my Soekris dac2541/Lyr 3 pairing and it's hard for me to imagine a more satisfying listen for the types of music I listen to (at the moment, Wilco's latest). Then again, I have the FF3s coming tomorrow, so that might change...



I have never heard the Newbsound 32x, but the FF3s are a great earbud regardless so I'm sure they'll find a place in the rotation. You'll have to let me/us know how you like them.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

jao29 said:


> Oh. So the “Calf” version is the Rw-1000 Bass version?


No, it is a new bovine model release.


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> *2022Yincrow 小牛 Calf; 26Ω*





jao29 said:


> Oh. So the “Calf” version is the Rw-1000 Bass version?


At the bottom of the page (after the RW3000)...


----------



## silverszi

diy thread isn't very active
any of the particularly pinna sensitive people have any suggestions on particular buds or drivers and tuning materials for those? is there any way to dampen pinna in general?


----------



## jao29

samandhi said:


> At the bottom of the page (after the RW3000)...


Got it. Lol Thanks @WoodyLuvr @samandhi ! 😅


----------



## cowtter

Looking for the best 30 dollarish earbuds I can find on aliexpress to help a friend with a YouTube video about deals from Chinese sellers. Ideally having controls on the wire. 

Any recommendations?


----------



## 1clearhead (Aug 25, 2022)

dududs said:


> I need some help. I'm using kbear stellar for 2 years now and i really like the sound signature but i want a upgrade that has detachable cable, right now im thinking of buying either the TRN EMA or the RY4S mmcx, do you have some recommendations in the same price range?


TRN EMA all the way...! They are amazing! I can't seem to find any fault in these for their insane low price. No need to add the sponge either, which sometimes alters the sound. They insert my ears gracefully and sound so balanced and accurate.

-Clear


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 25, 2022)

cowtter said:


> Looking for the best 30 dollarish earbuds I can find on aliexpress to help a friend with a YouTube video about deals from Chinese sellers. Ideally having controls on the wire.
> 
> Any recommendations?



Look for HifiEnd HE 150Pro earbuds from the Penon Audio store on AliExpress. They're probably my favorite earbud around that price as they sell for $29, IIRC. They're a great option. I really like the FAAEAL Rosemarys as well. They're a little harder to drive, but they have a nice relaxed neutral tuning that I like for a good casual listen.

Edit: I didn't see the part about controls somehow. I don't like having an inline mic or controls so I'm not sure which buds are available with them and which aren't. Sorry.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 25, 2022)

dududs said:


> I need some help. I'm using kbear stellar for 2 years now and i really like the sound signature but i want a upgrade that has detachable cable, right now im thinking of buying either the TRN EMA or the RY4S mmcx, do you have some recommendations in the same price range?



I think the TRN EMAs are a good option and I like them more than my RY4S. The EMAs are built pretty nicely. I also recently got a pair copper shelled mmcx earbuds with an LCP driver from a store on AliExpress called NSC Audio DIY Store that are a little bit more expensive (I think $17) and they're a pretty good bud as well. And Openheart sells a pair of metal shelled mmcx buds for like $13 that are a solid choice, too.

Bottom line though, for a detachable cable option under $10 you'd be hard pressed to beat the EMAs, IMO.


----------



## samandhi (Aug 25, 2022)

cowtter said:


> Looking for the best 30 dollarish earbuds I can find on aliexpress to help a friend with a YouTube video about deals from Chinese sellers. Ideally having controls on the wire.
> 
> Any recommendations?


I don't know any that have controls, but the NiceHCK EB2S sound really good (and have a lot of searchable reviews if you want to read more) for somewhere around $15-$25 and IIRC you can choose to have it w/mic as an option.

Edit: On AE they are here.


----------



## 1clearhead

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I think the TRN EMAs are a good option and I like them more than my RY4S. The EMAs are built pretty nicely. I also recently got a pair copper shelled mmcx earbuds with an LCP driver from a store on AliExpress called NSC Audio DIY Store that are a little bit more expensive (I think $17) and they're a pretty good bud as well. And Openheart sells a pair of metal shelled mmcx buds for like $13 that are a solid choice as well.
> 
> *Bottom line though, for a detachable cable option under $10 you'd be hard pressed to beat the EMAs, IMO.*


I'll drink to that...cheers! 

-Clear


----------



## christianfps

Just had a dream about the FF5, it had sleeker airpod-like structure hahaha! I don't know whether that's a good thing or a bad thing 🤣


----------



## FranQL (Aug 25, 2022)

dududs said:


> I need some help. I'm using kbear stellar for 2 years now and i really like the sound signature but i want a upgrade that has detachable cable, right now im thinking of buying either the TRN EMA or the RY4S mmcx, do you have some recommendations in the same price range?


Tingo TG38 SA


----------



## christianfps

Quick question, is it recommended to use the 4.4mm jack of the FF3?


----------



## o0genesis0o

christianfps said:


> Quick question, is it recommended to use the 4.4mm jack of the FF3?



Do you have any source with 4.4 balance output? If you do, yes. More power is good, unless FF3 is already too loud for you.


----------



## fooltoque

christianfps said:


> Quick question, is it recommended to use the 4.4mm jack of the FF3?


My understanding is that balanced connectors (like the 4.4mm) are always preferred for the reason that it cancels out the noise floor of the ground. Unbalanced (like the 3.5mm) will have the same noise floor as balanced in the ideal condition that there is no noise in the ground. 

The other reason for balanced is that it can provide more power for hard to drive headphones, although I am not sure if the FF3 benefits from that or not. I expect it doesn't, but the folks that own it would know.


----------



## fooltoque

christianfps said:


> Just had a dream about the FF5, it had sleeker airpod-like structure hahaha! I don't know whether that's a good thing or a bad thing 🤣


That's amazing XD. 

Wait, are you actually a FiiO employee dropping leaks :O


----------



## christianfps

fooltoque said:


> That's amazing XD.
> 
> Wait, are you actually a FiiO employee dropping leaks :O


No man haha just a weird dream 




o0genesis0o said:


> Do you have any source with 4.4 balance output? If you do, yes. More power is good, unless FF3 is already too loud for you.





fooltoque said:


> My understanding is that balanced connectors (like the 4.4mm) are always preferred for the reason that it cancels out the noise floor of the ground. Unbalanced (like the 3.5mm) will have the same noise floor as balanced in the ideal condition that there is no noise in the ground.



Thank you for your response guys, saved me a few bucks haha! I think my 3.5mm setup is still fine. I have a desktop DAC and a type c dongle DAC. Both I think has no noise as far as my untrained ears are telling me and provides enough power to drive the FF3 to and over my desired listening volumes.


----------



## fooltoque

christianfps said:


> Thank you for your response guys, saved me a few bucks haha! I think my 3.5mm setup is still fine. I have a desktop DAC and a type c dongle DAC. Both I think has no noise as far as my untrained ears are telling me and provides enough power to drive the FF3 to and over my desired listening volumes.


Yup, sounds like good money saved.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

christianfps said:


> Quick question, is it recommended to use the 4.4mm jack of the FF3?



It's just to give people with balanced DACs/sources the option to used them balanced. That's all. Using the with the regular 3.5mm jack isn't going to be any different with a pair this easy to drive so you're not missing out on anything by running them with one jack versus the other.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 25, 2022)

fooltoque said:


> My understanding is that balanced connectors (like the 4.4mm) are always preferred for the reason that it cancels out the noise floor of the ground. Unbalanced (like the 3.5mm) will have the same noise floor as balanced in the ideal condition that there is no noise in the ground.
> 
> The other reason for balanced is that it can provide more power for hard to drive headphones, although I am not sure if the FF3 benefits from that or not. I expect it doesn't, but the folks that own it would know.



This is generally true, but only for long cable runs that are likely to generate noise through interference over their length. A short headphone connection won't have any audible difference in noise floor so in this situation with the FF3s the 4.4mm jack is really just an offering for convenience of use with balanced sources so those with them can take advantage of other 4.4mm source properties like double the power, the use of dual or even quad DAC configurations which may offer some benefits depending on implementation, etc. This is what I have always been told by the pro audio and studio engineer guys I know and work with anyways.


----------



## fooltoque

JAnonymous5150 said:


> This is generally true, but only for long cable runs that are likely to generate noise through interference over their length. A short headphone connection won't have any audible difference in noise floor so in this situation with the FF3s the 4.4mm jack is really just an offering for convenience of use with balanced sources so those with them can take advantage of other 4.4mm source properties like double the power, the use of dual or even quad DAC configurations which may offer some benefits depending on implementation, etc. This is what I have always been told by the pro audio and studio engineer guys I know and work with anyways.


Thanks for the clarification. I knew that my ears didn't notice any difference, but I did not realize that cable length made a difference.


----------



## assassin10000

cowtter said:


> Looking for the best 30 dollarish earbuds I can find on aliexpress to help a friend with a YouTube video about deals from Chinese sellers. Ideally having controls on the wire.
> 
> Any recommendations?


Depending on coupons, perhaps you can get the LBBs into the 30ish range.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 26, 2022)

fooltoque said:


> Thanks for the clarification. I knew that my ears didn't notice any difference, but I did not realize that cable length made a difference.



No problemo! Apparently any electrical cable running over longer distances is exposed to more possible sources of interference and balanced cables are able to suppress the noise much better than single ended. That's how it has been explained to me when I asked years ago and it makes sense if you think about it.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

WoodyLuvr said:


> The Earbuds God-Father's latest creation:
> 
> *Planar Magnetic Earbud DIY V3* by *@ClieOS*
> 
> His creativity abounds. I am too excited for this next installment in his Planar Flathead R&D journey. Mad skills to say the least, yes?!


An update (Part II) has been posted by *@ClieOS* *here!*


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> It's just to give people with balanced DACs/sources the option to used them balanced. That's all. Using the with the regular 3.5mm jack isn't going to be any different with a pair this easy to drive so you're not missing out on anything by running them with one jack versus the other.



Add to that: unless the performance of the single ended output of your source is noticeably worse than the balanced by design. BTR5 has this kind of problem.


----------



## syazwaned

WoodyLuvr said:


> An update (Part II) has been posted by *@ClieOS* *here!*


is it for sale?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Don't you guys just love it when you give someone their first listen to some really good earbuds and you see the shocked look on their faces when they realize how open and great a good pair of buds can sound?

I just let the producer we're working with have a listen to the ES-P1s plugged into the Gryphon so he could hear some tracks that sound similar to a few things my band is looking to do on this album. At first when I handed him my earbuds I could tell he was wondering what he was supposed to be able to hear well through some earbuds. He put them in anyways without saying anything and after a short moment he looked at me and asked when earbuds became so good lol!


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 26, 2022)

syazwaned said:


> is it for sale?



I don't know, but with how well he laid out the atep by step process for the build it seems like it would be relatively easy to assemble for yourself. Based on his description and what I know about planars, I think I'll probably always prefer dynamic driver based buds, but I'm going to order the supplies and assemble my own version just to satisfy my curiosity. 

If you want to wait until the supplies arrive and I get around to doing the build I can let you know how difficult it is in practice.

Edit: Supplies have been ordered so now the wait begins. Should be an interesting side project when I get to it. Thanks for the instructions @ClieOS


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Don't you guys just love it when you give someone their first listen to some really good earbuds and you see the shocked look on their faces when they realize how open and great a good pair of buds can sound?
> 
> I just let the producer we're working with have a listen to the ES-P1s plugged into the Gryphon so he could hear some tracks that sound similar to a few things my band is looking to do on this album. At first when I handed him my earbuds I could tell he was wondering what he was supposed to be able to hear well through some earbuds. He put them in anyways without saying anything and after a short moment he looked at me and asked when earbuds became so good lol!


That’s a big praise, given how significant that producer is based on your previous posts.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> That’s a big praise, given how significant that producer is based on your previous posts.



No doubt! If you've listened to indie rock at all for the last 30 years or so you've probably heard his band and other bands that he has produced. Dude is no joke!

He said, "I spend so much time wearing montoring headphones that I'd generally like a break when I'm just listening for fun. If I'd known earbuds could sound that close to actual headphones I would have started using them years ago." We're gonna take over the world one rockstar/producer at a time fellas!


----------



## fooltoque

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Don't you guys just love it when you give someone their first listen to some really good earbuds and you see the shocked look on their faces when they realize how open and great a good pair of buds can sound?
> 
> I just let the producer we're working with have a listen to the ES-P1s plugged into the Gryphon so he could hear some tracks that sound similar to a few things my band is looking to do on this album. At first when I handed him my earbuds I could tell he was wondering what he was supposed to be able to hear well through some earbuds. He put them in anyways without saying anything and after a short moment he looked at me and asked when earbuds became so good lol!


Spread the good news! 

Seriously wouldn't it be great if everyone realized this, and the stores were once again filled with rows of earbuds instead of IEMs?


----------



## o0genesis0o (Aug 26, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Based on his description and what I know about planars, I think I'll probably always prefer dynamic driver based buds, but I'm going to order the supplies and assemble my own version just to satisfy my curiosity.



Wait, I thought that planar is the best kind of driver for headphone bass? The first time I heard a planar headphone, I had a big grin on my face when the drum starts in Hotel California   (Exactly like that emoji)

Edit: just let me friend audition my FF3. He said this form factor looks so cheap so he is not going to buy this kind of earbuds. Needless to say, I’m not going to make a pair of earbuds for him anymore


----------



## yaps66

jao29 said:


> Oh. So the “Calf” version is the Rw-1000 Bass version?


Going by the naming convention, it is probably a less bassy version! Haha!


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 26, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Wait, I thought that planar is the best kind of driver for headphone bass? The first time I heard a planar headphone, I had a big grin on my face when the drum starts in Hotel California   (Exactly like that emoji)
> 
> Edit: just let me friend audition my FF3. He said this form factor looks so cheap so he is not going to buy this kind of earbuds. Needless to say, I’m not going to make a pair of earbuds for him anymore



The FF3s don't look cheap at all IMO. I think they're actually quite classy, one might even say beautiful, in appearance.

As for the planar driver thing, I wasn't specifically talking about bass. I really enjoy the bass on my Letshuoer S12s for example and have been considering purchasing the CA Supermoons as well because in the brief session I was able to demo them for they demonstrated great bass and resolution. Also consider that I own the DCA Stealths (and their little bro the Aeon X Closed) which are an absolutely fantastic set of headphones. 

That said, smaller planar drivers tend to have a decay that is too quick for my liking in that it sounds unnatural to me. Also, the note weight and timbre is very difficult to get right on the smaller planars as well. The S12s ultimately seem to solve these problems best of all the planar based IEMs I have tried with the HookX coming in second. With larger planar drivers, especially those in closed back cups, this problem seems to completely disappear when handled right. In open back full size planar headphones some manage to conquer the issue to varying degrees or entirely. 

Regardless, I have never heard the decay and note weight issue exist on the same level in full sized headphones as I have in various IEMs with the small planar drivers. I don't know what the cause would be or if it's something inherent to the driver tech itself. My guess is that the problems will exist to a greater degree in the earbud form factor than it does in the IEMs I have tried, but I'm not sure which is why I am curious and will be giving it a shot. Overall though, I think small DDs have such a wonderfully natural timbre, note weight, and decay that similarly sized planars often struggle to recreate in my experience thus far.

I hope that clarified and made a bit of sense. If not, oh well. I did my best lol!😉


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 26, 2022)

BTW, i got to try my Ucotechs on a VE Megatron that an acquaintance of my bassist came by to show off and I ended up ordering one because it synergized so nicely with them. For $50 it seems like a can't miss proposition. I paid for it early this afternoon and AliExpress says it's already headed to their distribution center only 10 hours later. That's pretty damn quick for AE!

In other news, the owner of a hifi shop I frequent finally came through with a Cayin N8ii that he offered to sell me at the promotional rate that Cayin allows distributors to sell a very limited number at. I should have it on Saturday if I'm lucky or Monday if I'm not and after all the good things I have read I can't wait to see how it performs as an additional option to my Kann Alpha in DAP situations. When I demoed it, I did so with my Aiwa HP-V99s which were the only premium level buds I had at the time (late April) and it sounded very musical and well controlled at the same time. The bass on the HP-V99s can kind of get away from some sources. I'm hoping it will become the TOTL warmer, more musical counterweight to the often quite exacting and technical sounding Kann Alpha that some buds just don't play well with.

And last, but not least if you'd like to hear an album that shows off the power of the FF3s and their technical capabilities at the same time might I suggest all you FF3 owners out there take a listen to Tom Morello's The Atlas Underground Flood album. If you have more time the entire The Atlas Underground series by Morello is great, but the Flood installment is my favorite for showing off the FF3s exception agility and control for a driver that comes across with that much power and authority. After you guys get a chance to listen let me know what you think!

Edit: Typos because bug thumbs, small keyboard. Drummer caveman goes grrrr!


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> BTW, i got to try my Ucotechs on a VE Megatron that an acquaintance of my bassist came by to show off and I ended up ordering one because it synergized so nicely with them. For $50 it seems like a can't miss proposition. I paid for it early this afternoon and AliExpress says it's already headed to their distribution center only 10 hours later. That's pretty damn quick for AE!
> 
> In other news, the owner of a hifi shop I frequent finally came through with a Cayin N8ii that he offered to sell me at the promotional rate that Cayin allows distributors to sell a very limited number at. I should have it on Saturday if I'm lucky or Monday if I'm not and after all the good things I have read I can't wait to see how it performs as an additional option to my Kann Alpha in DAP situations. When I demoed it, I did so with my Aiwa HP-V99s which were the only premium level buds I had at the time (late April) and it sounded very musical and well controlled at the same time. The bass on the HP-V99s can kind of get away from some sources. I'm hoping it will become the TOTL warmer, more musical counterweight to the often quite exacting and technical sounding Kann Alpha that some buds just don't play well with.
> 
> ...


Fancy gears. Looking forward for your Megatron + Asura 3.0 FE impression (yes, it’s a threat)

Will try the recommended album with my FF3.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Fancy gears. Looking forward for your Megatron + Asura 3.0 FE impression (yes, it’s a threat)
> 
> Will try the recommended album with my FF3.



You'll be happy to hear that we are taking tomorrow off so I will be reviewing the Asura 3.0FEs first thing. Obviously, I won't have the Megatron yet, but at least you'll get the part of that review you've been waiting for the longest.

In regards to the gear, I'm lucky enough to have an informal business relationship with a hifi/headphone shop near me so the owner pretty regularly gets me steep discounts and sometimes even shoots me some free gear. Bless him for that! If it wasn't for the discount, I wouldn't have purchased the N8ii and would have gone with something less expensive instead. The flagship DAP market is very overpriced for what it offers these days versus the portable dac options and even the highly competitive mid priced DAP market which is definitely where the sweet spot is for buying new IMO.


----------



## Ronion (Aug 26, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Wait, I thought that planar is the best kind of driver for headphone bass? The first time I heard a planar headphone, I had a big grin on my face when the drum starts in Hotel California   (Exactly like that emoji)
> 
> Edit: just let me friend audition my FF3. He said this form factor looks so cheap so he is not going to buy this kind of earbuds. Needless to say, I’m not going to make a pair of earbuds for him anymore


That’s not a good sign.  The FF3 are the best built buds I’ve had…

@JAnonymous5150, is it okay if a rescind my vote for my 130Be as my one bud?  I think I want my FF3.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> That’s not a good sign.  The FF3 are the best built buds I’ve had…
> 
> @JAnonymous5150, is it okay if a rescind my vote for my 130Be as my one bud?  I think I want my FF3.


I can gladly dispose that 130BE for you


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> I can gladly dispose that 130BE for you


It sucks.  I wouldn’t want to part with either of them.  If I were forced to have only one, I’d probably put the other in a ziplock and swallow it.  Just saying


----------



## rkw

fooltoque said:


> I did not realize that cable length made a difference.


In pro audio, it is not unusual for a cable run to be 100 meters at a concert venue, and balanced cables are critical for a clean signal.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> @JAnonymous5150, is it okay if a rescind my vote for my 130Be as my one bud?  I think I want my FF3.



Just this once I'll let you change your pick. Now you need to mail me the rest of your buds and start listening to just the FF3s. And just to make sure you don't go making anymore buds on the downlow you better go ahead and include all your DIY supplies as well. Shall I PM you my address? 😜

Seriously though, the FF3s are definitely a solid pick for a one and only bud. If I had to have only one, I could certainly be very happy with them filling the role. 

Luckily for me and my curiosity that's not necessary as of yet!


----------



## sofastreamer (Aug 26, 2022)

the ff3 has something magical in its soundstage. I listen to them exclusively since i got them and had not a single moment,where i wanted to grab my 1k Planars. i know the planars are more resolving, effortless and have much better bass texture and extension, but i would loose soundstage,
 once i would switch and i do not want to trade this in in favor of better technicalitys. I am owning the em5 as well and it is the better bud from a technical standpoint, but its midbass bump kills it for me in comparison to the ff3.

actually i am thinking of beeing done with hifi, since i got the ff3.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> You'll be happy to hear that we are taking tomorrow off so I will be reviewing the Asura 3.0FEs first thing. Obviously, I won't have the Megatron yet, but at least you'll get the part of that review you've been waiting for the longest.



Thanks mate. Eager to hear how it compares to FF3. 



JAnonymous5150 said:


> In regards to the gear, I'm lucky enough to have an informal business relationship with a hifi/headphone shop near me so the owner pretty regularly gets me steep discounts and sometimes even shoots me some free gear. Bless him for that! If it wasn't for the discount, I wouldn't have purchased the N8ii and would have gone with something less expensive instead. The flagship DAP market is very overpriced for what it offers these days versus the portable dac options and even the highly competitive mid priced DAP market which is definitely where the sweet spot is for buying new IMO.


I remember when I paid for the Andromeda, I told the guys at my local hifi store that "I can't believe I'm paying this much for a pair of earphones". They replied cheerfully that the U12t is still around, "see you very soon". The price of these audio toys are insanely high. My colleague told me that my hobby is such a "rich people hobby" after I explained to him different finer points of audio chain. So, it's kind of refreshing when hearing something like FF3. So good sound at such a good price. High hope for FF5.


----------



## sofastreamer

to me it is the sum of comfort, good enough resolution, tonality, out of head experience and physical sub bass impact, that makes them unique and somehow manages to tick all the boxes for me. if anything, for the ff5 i wish a little more precise imaging and separation. everything else is in my sweet spot already.


----------



## syazwaned

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I don't know, but with how well he laid out the atep by step process for the build it seems like it would be relatively easy to assemble for yourself. Based on his description and what I know about planars, I think I'll probably always prefer dynamic driver based buds, but I'm going to order the supplies and assemble my own version just to satisfy my curiosity.
> 
> If you want to wait until the supplies arrive and I get around to doing the build I can let you know how difficult it is in practice.




Thanks, appreciate it. I cannot dive into DIT world that much, not because I don't like it, because I have ape hands that destroy everything I touched!


----------



## silverszi

syazwaned said:


> Thanks, appreciate it. I cannot dive into DIT world that much, not because I don't like it, because I have ape hands that destroy everything I touched!


did you build your own pc or do you not have a desktop?


----------



## silverszi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I don't know, but with how well he laid out the atep by step process for the build it seems like it would be relatively easy to assemble for yourself. Based on his description and what I know about planars, I think I'll probably always prefer dynamic driver based buds, but I'm going to order the supplies and assemble my own version just to satisfy my curiosity.


planar bud diy? damn
is there even that many 15.4mm planar drivers?


----------



## syazwaned

silverszi said:


> did you build your own pc or do you not have a desktop?


 dont have a desktop


----------



## yaps66

JAnonymous5150 said:


> The FF3s don't look cheap at all IMO. I think they're actually quite classy, one might even say beautiful, in appearance.
> 
> As for the planar driver thing, I wasn't specifically talking about bass. I really enjoy the bass on my Letshuoer S12s for example and have been considering purchasing the CA Supermoons as well because in the brief session I was able to demo them for they demonstrated great bass and resolution. Also consider that I own the DCA Stealths (and their little bro the Aeon X Closed) which are an absolutely fantastic set of headphones.
> 
> ...


I too am interested in the Supermoon's even though they seem to be only in ciem option.  Have heard so many good things about them!


----------



## yaps66

JAnonymous5150 said:


> BTW, i got to try my Ucotechs on a VE Megatron that an acquaintance of my bassist came by to show off and I ended up ordering one because it synergized so nicely with them. For $50 it seems like a can't miss proposition. I paid for it early this afternoon and AliExpress says it's already headed to their distribution center only 10 hours later. That's pretty damn quick for AE!
> 
> In other news, the owner of a hifi shop I frequent finally came through with a Cayin N8ii that he offered to sell me at the promotional rate that Cayin allows distributors to sell a very limited number at. I should have it on Saturday if I'm lucky or Monday if I'm not and after all the good things I have read I can't wait to see how it performs as an additional option to my Kann Alpha in DAP situations. When I demoed it, I did so with my Aiwa HP-V99s which were the only premium level buds I had at the time (late April) and it sounded very musical and well controlled at the same time. The bass on the HP-V99s can kind of get away from some sources. I'm hoping it will become the TOTL warmer, more musical counterweight to the often quite exacting and technical sounding Kann Alpha that some buds just don't play well with.
> 
> ...


The N8ii is special.  I like it very much.


----------



## BCool

silverszi said:


> planar bud diy? damn
> is there even that many 15.4mm planar drivers?


I don't know about 15.4mm, but 14.2mm are easily found on Aliexpress, as well as 12mm and 10mm. Pricey though, they tend to run at over $100/pair.


----------



## o0genesis0o

BCool said:


> I don't know about 15.4mm, but 14.2mm are easily found on Aliexpress, as well as 12mm and 10mm. Pricey though, they tend to run at over $100/pair.



These ones? They are so expensive.


----------



## mt877

mochill said:


> Mine shipped


RE: M4 shipping... I'm glad they are shipping out. Hope I get the shipping email or that surprise delivery at my door soon.


----------



## samandhi

rkw said:


> In pro audio, it is not unusual for a cable run to be 100 meters at a concert venue, and balanced cables are critical for a clean signal.


I would also think that a litz cable structure would help in this scenerio too. 

As for why to use balanced over SE in IEMs/headphones/earbuds the issues discussed already are a factor indeed (lower noise floor, more power) but that is only typical where portable is concerned. In fact, some desktop amps put out just as much power over a SE connection as does portable gear from balanced. So, this is only really typical insomuch as the manufacturers make the decision to not make available more power over SE than they do over balanced (probably a cost thing in implentation). 

Now, there is another factor (and the biggest reason to use balanced over SE) that is called crosstalk. There are two main factors that can be noticed when you have crosstalk (which all amplification circuits have to some extent or another). One is better stereo separation. If you are an audiophile seeking out that last 1-5% performance from head gear you will more than likely want to use balanced because of this factor. Though this isn't a must, it IS a factor.

But, the main reason (number 2) for balanced over SE in the portable/transportable world is because of audible noise that can be generated over a cable leading to transducers due to cable resistance over a shared ground (or a shared inductance). This may or may not be perceived by our ears but is more common in lower impedance head gear. When a cable is wired in an SE fashion is is more likely to get this noise generated from resistance because both transducers load are counted as one, where in a balanced fashion they are isolated from one another and are less likely to have audible noise because of this. Here is a better explanation on what I am trying to explain:



> The physics involved here is actually much simpler than you might have thought. Each conductor within the cable will inherently have a certain small resistance, and so the current flowing along those conductors to drive the transducer will inevitably generate a small voltage across their resistances.
> Thinking about a single transducer, what you have is a simple voltage divider. The output voltage from the headphone amp is applied across two bits of wire with a transducer connected between them. Most of the voltage will appear across the transducer, because that has the highest resistance, but some will also appear across each of the connecting wires, due to their own small resistances.
> Now, if we add a second transducer, but use one of the original wires as a shared common return, then the voltage seen by that second transducer is not only the voltage generated by the headphone amp (minus the small voltages lost across the connecting conductors), but also the voltage developed across the common ground conductor from the current flowing through the first transducer.
> The crosstalk comes from the signal voltage applied across the first transducer, which develops a small voltage across the ground return conductor, which then also appears in series with the signal voltage applied across the second transducer, and _vice versa_. So the crosstalk voltage is actually a mono sum of both the left and right signals, and it gets applied to both transducers in series with the wanted signal voltages from the headphone amp.
> ...



Having said that, remember that not all distortion is "displeasing". After all we have tube amps, which deliberately introduced distortion to the mix. 


yaps66 said:


> I too am interested in the Supermoon's even though they seem to be only in ciem option.  Have heard so many good things about them!


Not all hope is lost on these I think, as can be seen on the Can Jam London thread where they had some few UIEM setups available for people to listen to. I hope they see this as another alternative to CIEM only...


----------



## fooltoque (Aug 26, 2022)

I finally had a chance to visit my local store and try out some of the recommendations you guys had for open back IEMs.

Sony MDR-EX800ST- Sony's naming sense is the best. Honestly I couldn't figure out how to wear these, and the guy at the shop couldn't figure it out either. The only way it worked was if the text was on the inside and the smooth looking surface, which totally looked like it should be on the inside, was facing out. We even disconnected the cables and verified that they were properly attached (proprietary interface, again Sony geez why you do....). Well at least I could fit the tips into my ears and get a listen.

Final E3000- despite having the open grill on the back, they didn't feel any more open than normal IEMs to me.

TFZ Tequila- These I enjoyed. They were pretty comfortable.

Raptgo Hook X- Probably my favorite out of the recommendations, and the ones that felt the most open out of the bunch.

FiiO FH9- This wasn't a recommendation, but I also found that they have large vents. I like the FiiO tuning, and these were the ones I felt I actually wanted. Out of my price range though...

All in all, for each of them I found myself wishing that they were more open, and not really seeing situations where I would chose any of them over my FiiO EM5 earbuds. So *earbud bias confirmed.*

More importantly, I found that they do have a small earbuds section! I was able to try Moondrop Chaconne, ATH-CM2000TI, and a few others. The ATH-CM2000TI was sooo technical. I felt like it outperformed my EM5s by quite a bit. I would need to EQ more than the EM5s though, as the tuning didn't quite work for me. I'm okay with EQ. I want them. 

I was disappointed that they didn't have the FF3. Maybe it is slow to come to Japan. I really wanted to try them.


----------



## drewbadour

baskingshark said:


> Now I just need to find some funds to order it and more importantly, to get it past my wife LOLOL.


Holy crap, are you me?

I can only buy things on PayPal balance so nothing touches our statements - is that the same as you? lol


----------



## leaky74 (Aug 26, 2022)

Enjoying @RikudouGoku Beserker 2 this aft. Everything served up on a nice fat (phat? ) bedrock of sub bass!


----------



## ttorbic

leaky74 said:


> Enjoying @RikudouGoku Beserker 2 this aft. Everything served up on a nice fat (phat? ) bedrock of sub bass!


These two images confused me for a good few seconds lol. Nice purchase though!!


----------



## weexisttocease

Brought the Pislo PXVV for holidays with me. Actually it is all I need. Great musicality with clear details. Drinking some Guacamayo and enjoying my favorite tunes.


----------



## samandhi (Aug 26, 2022)

drewbadour said:


> Holy crap, are you me?
> 
> I can only buy things on PayPal balance so nothing touches our statements - is that the same as you? lol


This is how I operate also (covertly)... 

Edit: Better yet, I use PayPal credit so she doesn't even even see that I spent anything (paying the same amount per month either way)...


----------



## drewbadour

For someone who prefers tonality and timbre of instruments and voices over technicality (still prefer better techs but if it comes at the cost of tone and timbre, then no thanks), a decent amount of bass but not basshead levels. And for someone that listens to a ton of different genres - jazz, blues, indie, folk, rock, classical (orchestral and chamber), kpop, edm, etc.

Would the RW2000 ($122), FF3($76), or Longyao Yinman 600ohm ($108) be the best choice?


----------



## mt877

Just found this site, maybe our hearing or headphones / earphones / iems / flat head buds need a sanity check from time to time?
Our equipment will most likely exceed our hearing capability.

The Ultimate Headphones (and Earphones) Test


----------



## samandhi

drewbadour said:


> For someone who prefers tonality and timbre of instruments and voices over technicality (still prefer better techs but if it comes at the cost of tone and timbre, then no thanks), a decent amount of bass but not basshead levels. And for someone that listens to a ton of different genres - jazz, blues, indie, folk, rock, classical (orchestral and chamber), kpop, edm, etc.
> 
> Would the RW2000 ($122), FF3($76), or Longyao Yinman 600ohm ($108) be the best choice?


Normally I would say the Yinman (for me), but for what you are asking, I would actually say that the FF3 will probably be best in that category IMHO... The Yincrow are great for tone and timbre, but staging is not as good overall as on the FF3. 

Having said that, all three are EXCELLENT all-rounders IMO, so you can't really go wrong here.


----------



## drewbadour

samandhi said:


> Normally I would say the Yinman (for me), but for what you are asking, I would actually say that the FF3 will probably be best in that category IMHO... The Yincrow are great for tone and timbre, but staging is not as good overall as on the FF3.
> 
> Having said that, all three are EXCELLENT all-rounders IMO, so you can't really go wrong here.


Nice! I have both in my shopping cart now and definitely on the fence haha. What about the yinman would you prefer over the FF3?


----------



## samandhi

This song really brings out the massive staging, great dynamics, etc... on the FF3 (just WOW!), though I am hearing it in hi-res so YMMV with this video:


----------



## samandhi

drewbadour said:


> Nice! I have both in my shopping cart now and definitely on the fence haha. What about the yinman would you prefer over the FF3?


I prefer the deeper bass (though they both have great bass; FF3 having a bit more slam, and the Yinman seems to go deeper), and the overall timbre is warmer, thus being a bit fuller and thicker. Technicalities are pretty on par with the FF3 IMO so that is a wash.


----------



## samandhi

drewbadour said:


> Nice! I have both in my shopping cart now and definitely on the fence haha. What about the yinman would you prefer over the FF3?


BUT.... keep in mind that Yinman need quite a bit more power to sound "proper", and the FF3 can be driven off any phone. Also, the FF3 are also built like a tank. The Yinman are wooden (if that matters to you). Also the FF3 have a modular cable OOTB. The Yinman are much lighter, but (for my ears anyhow) the FF3 actually fit better (than any other bud I have). 

Maybe none of these things matter, but just giving you the info so you can better make up your own mind...


----------



## samandhi

samandhi said:


> This song really brings out the massive staging, great dynamics, etc... on the FF3 (just WOW!), though I am hearing it in hi-res so YMMV with this video:



But, then again, the with the Yinman this song just sounds AMAZING (I don't think the FF3 can touch them on this one)!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

silverszi said:


> planar bud diy? damn
> is there even that many 15.4mm planar drivers?



While browsing I found 10mm, 12mm, 14.2mm planar drivers, and one shop selling a 14.8mm driver. The instructions for the build as completed by @ClieOS call for the 14.2mm so I purchased 2 pairs of them just in case something goes wrong with one. 

If this build ends up producing a bud that I really like or intrigues me in some other way that makes me want to continue down the planar earbud rabbit hole, I put together a list of potential supplies to order to try a few different ideas, but as I mentioned in another post, I'm betting that I'll probably be boring and prefer dynamic drivers for earbuds.

I'm not sure when I'll get this done, but when I do I will post an update here regarding how easy/difficult the build was, any tips or lessons I have for anyone wanting to do it, and how they sound to my ears so if you're interested just keep your eyes peeled for updates.


----------



## mt877

o0genesis0o said:


> Edit: just let me friend audition my FF3. He said this form factor looks so cheap so he is not going to buy this kind of earbuds. Needless to say, I’m not going to make a pair of earbuds for him anymore


His loss, your gain. Now you have one extra set of buds that you can use to practice tuning and experimenting with.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

yaps66 said:


> I too am interested in the Supermoon's even though they seem to be only in ciem option.  Have heard so many good things about them!



I didn't inquire about the CIEM option as I find that for music listening the universal fits tend to be just fine. I used to try to have only CIEMs, but I stopped doing that a few years ago. Plus, UIEMs have better resale value which allows me to turnover my collection as I find new IEMs that I prefer lol!

I tried the Sueprmoons in the "audiophile" fit and the "artist" fit, which is supposed to be more like a CIEM, and Inpreferred the audiophile fit. The artist fit didn't let me get the right fit/seal with the nozzle.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> While browsing I found 10mm, 12mm, 14.2mm planar drivers, and one shop selling a 14.8mm driver. The instructions for the build as completed by @ClieOS call for the 14.2mm so I purchased 2 pairs of them just in case something goes wrong with one.
> 
> If this build ends up producing a bud that I really like or intrigues me in some other way that makes me want to continue down the planar earbud rabbit hole, I put together a list of potential supplies to order to try a few different ideas, but as I mentioned in another post, I'm betting that I'll probably be boring and prefer dynamic drivers for earbuds.
> 
> I'm not sure when I'll get this done, but when I do I will post an update here regarding how easy/difficult the build was, any tips or lessons I have for anyone wanting to do it, and how they sound to my ears so if you're interested just keep your eyes peeled for updates.


Ortho dynamic drivers aren't for everyone, and chances are that if you have not found them to your liking of the ones you have tried, you probably aren't going to start liking them. Having said that, you might stumble (maybe an educated stumble???) across a build that really appeals to you in one way or another. Let us know your progress along the way?!

As for me, I am an ortho nut and would have all (but a couple DD and BA) of my head gear in either ortho or electrostatic. I love them exactly for the differences in sound they produce.


----------



## drewbadour

samandhi said:


> BUT.... keep in mind that Yinman need quite a bit more power to sound "proper", and the FF3 can be driven off any phone. Also, the FF3 are also built like a tank. The Yinman are wooden (if that matters to you). Also the FF3 have a modular cable OOTB. The Yinman are much lighter, but (for my ears anyhow) the FF3 actually fit better (than any other bud I have).
> 
> Maybe none of these things matter, but just giving you the info so you can better make up your own mind...


Yeah source will be a tricky consideration for me as I vastly prefer portable gear over anything that would be stuck on the desk haha.

I'm thinking the Topping G5 might be a good pick up since it seems like I'll be bottlenecked by my Qudelix 5K if I ever want to try higher resistance gear. But need to sell things to pad my PayPal balance to buy that and more buds


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Ortho dynamic drivers aren't for everyone, and chances are that if you have not found them to your liking of the ones you have tried, you probably aren't going to start liking them. Having said that, you might stumble (maybe an educated stumble???) across a build that really appeals to you in one way or another. Let us know your progress along the way?!
> 
> As for me, I am an ortho nut and would have all (but a couple DD and BA) of my head gear in either ortho or electrostatic. I love them exactly for the differences in sound they produce.



They tend to be very hit and miss for me with the smaller ortho/planar drivers used in IEMs and in this case earbuds being much more likely to have the issues that cause me to dislike them. I do like the Letshuoer S12s and I love the DCA Stealths and Aeon X Closed so there are orthos/planars in small and full sizes that pull it off for me. I mean, the Stealths are hands down the best analytical headphone I have ever heard and maybe the best I have ever heard overall.


----------



## mt877

o0genesis0o said:


> I can gladly dispose that 130BE for you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


@o0genesis0o, I don't think you'll want to touch them after that... What goes in must come out... LOL.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 26, 2022)

mt877 said:


> @o0genesis0o, I don't think you'll want to touch them after that... What goes in must come out... LOL.



Talk about crappy earbuds! 😉


----------



## samandhi (Aug 26, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> While browsing I found 10mm, 12mm, 14.2mm planar drivers, and one shop selling a 14.8mm driver. The instructions for the build as completed by @ClieOS call for the 14.2mm so I purchased 2 pairs of them just in case something goes wrong with one.
> 
> If this build ends up producing a bud that I really like or intrigues me in some other way that makes me want to continue down the planar earbud rabbit hole, I put together a list of potential supplies to order to try a few different ideas, but as I mentioned in another post, I'm betting that I'll probably be boring and prefer dynamic drivers for earbuds.
> 
> I'm not sure when I'll get this done, but when I do I will post an update here regarding how easy/difficult the build was, any tips or lessons I have for anyone wanting to do it, and how they sound to my ears so if you're interested just keep your eyes peeled for updates.


Also, from your description earlier on the reasons you may not like planar as well, I might suggest that you either set (if you have the ability to) your DAC filter to "long delay, slow rolloff" or something to that nature. Or, I would also suggest a good tube amp. Having a strong tube amp effect can benefit the planar IEM in that it slows down transients a bit naturally, which might be just what you are looking for.

As for me, I suppose it should make sense that I love planar because I like a lot of metal, and the speed, and texture of planars play VERY well into any sort of fast music. 🤷‍♂️

Edit: I can't say that ALL of my planar head gear sounds good on a tube amp, but the Hifiman Deva, and HE400S sound absolutely sublime on one.


----------



## mt877

fooltoque said:


> I finally had a chance to visit my local store and try out some of the recommendations you guys had for open back IEMs.
> 
> Sony MDR-EX800ST- Sony's naming sense is the best. Honestly I couldn't figure out how to wear these, and the guy at the shop couldn't figure it out either. The only way it worked was if the text was on the inside and the smooth looking surface, which totally looked like it should be on the inside, was facing out. We even disconnected the cables and verified that they were properly attached (proprietary interface, again Sony geez why you do....). Well at least I could fit the tips into my ears and get a listen.
> 
> ...


If / when I can travel to Japan again I'm going to make it a point to visit an e-earphone retail store.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> If / when I can travel to Japan again I'm going to make it a point to visit an e-earphone retail store.


IKR? We don't have much like that here.


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> IKR? We don't have much like that here.


(Grown-up) Kid in a candy store. Would have to be prepared to drop some ¥.


----------



## jeejack (Aug 26, 2022)

Setmagic said:


> This is 32 ohm MYLAR foil (PET) driver without any coating.
> 
> Its a brand new tunning from DIY Workroom group. As @FranQL said it's very vivid and deep bass same time.


My build. Same awesome drivers


----------



## Ronion (Aug 26, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Talk about crappy earbuds! 😉


We had a patient who thought those baggies were foolproof And swallowed them filled with cocaine in an attempt to hide it from the police.  Did you know that stuff is a potent bowel stimulant?  Well, that’s how I learned it was.  That police car was… well, they probably just burned it.  LOL


----------



## JAnonymous5150

drewbadour said:


> For someone who prefers tonality and timbre of instruments and voices over technicality (still prefer better techs but if it comes at the cost of tone and timbre, then no thanks), a decent amount of bass but not basshead levels. And for someone that listens to a ton of different genres - jazz, blues, indie, folk, rock, classical (orchestral and chamber), kpop, edm, etc.
> 
> Would the RW2000 ($122), FF3($76), or Longyao Yinman 600ohm ($108) be the best choice?



I own the Yinmans and the FF3s and I have listened to the RW-2000s quite a bit. Given my experience with all three of these earbuds, I think the FF3s are your best bet based on what you're looking for. They're a great pair of earbuds that can do all of the genres you mentioned very well. The FF3s really are an exceptionally versatile earbud bothe because they're great with a wide variety of music and because they can be driven by almost any source including just a smartphone. I don't think you can go wrong with the FF3s in your case.

Just my two cents...


----------



## ttorbic (Aug 26, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I own the Yinmans and the FF3s and I have listened to the RW-2000s quite a bit. Given my experience with all three of these earbuds, I think the FF3s are your best bet based on what you're looking for. They're a great pair of earbuds that can do all of the genres you mentioned very well. The FF3s really are an exceptionally versatile earbud bothe because they're great with a wide variety of music and because they can be driven by almost any source including just a smartphone. I don't think you can go wrong with the FF3s in your case.
> 
> Just my two cents...


Eagerly waiting for your comparison with the Lancer Rider 1!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

ttorbic said:


> Eagerly waiting for your comparison with the Lancer!



I have the Rider 1 not the Lancers, but I am starting a review session for the VE Asura 3.0FE now because I promised @o0genesis0o I would post ny thoughts on them today. After I am done, I would be more than happy to do a little FF3 to Rider 1 comparison if you're interested.


----------



## drewbadour

Just ordered the FF3 from Amazon - should be arriving tomorrow! Thanks for the input!

It'll be the perfect way to tide myself over because Lancer, Saber, and Serratus are all stuck in customs limbo


----------



## ttorbic

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I have the Rider 1 not the Lancers, but I am starting a review session for the VE Asura 3.0FE now because I promised @o0genesis0o I would post ny thoughts on them today. After I am done, I would be more than happy to do a little FF3 to Rider 1 comparison if you're interested.


Muchas gracias!


----------



## ttorbic

drewbadour said:


> Just ordered the FF3 from Amazon - should be arriving tomorrow! Thanks for the input!
> 
> It'll be the perfect way to tide myself over because Lancer, Saber, and Serratus are all stuck in customs limbo


Wowow you went all out!! Those are some treasures sitting in customs!


----------



## drewbadour (Aug 27, 2022)

ttorbic said:


> Wowow you went all out!! Those are some treasures sitting in customs!


Haha yeah, I spent so much time and money trying to find the goldilocks IEM for myself and after trying 30+ IEMs, I finally found that sweet spot of price-to-performance with the EJ07M Kinda Lava - but along came Qian39 and X6, both costing about $10, get more listening time and basically provide the same if not more enjoyment for me personally.

I figured, if $10 buds can be this good, I might as well go big or go home (and the crazy thing is all four combined doesn't cost as much as the Kinda Lava)

Hopefully these four incoming buds can tide me over for a long while!


----------



## Alex.Grimm

New Yincrow
https://a.aliexpress.com/_uI5FMZ
https://a.aliexpress.com/_ujiESD


----------



## ttorbic

drewbadour said:


> Haha yeah, I spent so much time and money trying to find the goldilocks IEM for myself and after trying 30+ IEMs, I finally found that sweet spot with the EJ07M Kinda Lava - but Qian39 and X6, both costing about $10 get more listening time and basically provide the same if not more enjoyment for me personally.
> 
> I figured, if $10 buds can be this good, I might as well go big or go home (and the crazy thing is all four combined doesn't cost as much as the Kinda Lava)
> 
> Hopefully these four incoming buds can tide me over for a long while!


Oh yeah man, those are some TOTL goodies coming your way. I know @nymz also finds it hard to pick IEMs over his Serratus / Tantalus 😅


----------



## tgx78

Alex.Grimm said:


> New Yincrow
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_uI5FMZ
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_ujiESD


Strange name 

🐄


----------



## nymz

ttorbic said:


> Oh yeah man, those are some TOTL goodies coming your way. I know @nymz also finds it hard to pick IEMs over his Serratus / Tantalus 😅



Guess who conviced him? 😂


----------



## drewbadour

tgx78 said:


> Strange name
> 
> 🐄


Very!

But at least consistent lol:
RW-3000 天牛 (divine cow, "holy cow")
RW-2000 野牛 (bison)
RW1000 大牛 (big cow)
and now... Calf (little cow)


----------



## fooltoque

mt877 said:


> (Grown-up) Kid in a candy store. Would have to be prepared to drop some ¥.


I generally spend an hour or two in there every time I go downtown. And I've dropped my share of ¥ xD.


----------



## Ronion

fooltoque said:


> I generally spend an hour or two in there every time I go downtown. And I've dropped my share of ¥ xD.


I would love to go to Akihabara now.  Last time I was there, earbuds were free with your player of choice (or cheap portable headphones) and there were only a couple IEMs even made best I can remember.  Portable headphones were still the rage and some nice ones were made, but things are at a whole other level now.  The Yodobashi Camera that is like a 5 story electronics store had just been built claiming to be the largest in the world.  I have no doubt that it was.  I was really into home stereos at the time (now I’ve found my bliss in that department) and DIYing speakers.  I can only imagine what’s there now.  Must be even more of a nerd’s paradise.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> I would love to go to Akihabara now.  Last time I was there, earbuds were free with your player of choice (or cheap portable headphones) and there were only a couple IEMs even made best I can remember.  Portable headphones were still the rage and some nice ones were made, but things are at a whole other level now.  The Yodobashi Camera that is like a 5 story electronics store had just been built claiming to be the largest in the world.  I have no doubt that it was.  I was really into home stereos at the time (now I’ve found my bliss in that department) and DIYing speakers.  I can only imagine what’s there now.  Must be even more of a nerd’s paradise.


And people complain because DAPs are too big nowadays......


----------



## samandhi

Heck.. This is what we called portable in the 80's (this one is very similar to the one I had):



Spoiler


----------



## fooltoque

samandhi said:


> And people complain because DAPs are too big nowadays......


That is crazy! There is a full size HDD in there isn't there. Try to stick that in your pocket.


----------



## mt877

fooltoque said:


> I generally spend an hour or two in there every time I go downtown. And I've dropped my share of ¥ xD.


I usually go to the Kansai area, mainly Osaka, Kyoto, Nara, so would visit the Osaka store. Yep, a wallet full of Big 1's would get emptied fast... LOL.


----------



## samandhi

fooltoque said:


> That is crazy! There is a full size HDD in there isn't there. Try to stick that in your pocket.


Yep. During its day it has the most memory of any DAP on the market (at a cost of being huge)... It came with a case that had a belt clip on it..


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Yep. During its day it has the most memory of any DAP on the market (at a cost of being huge)... It came with a case that had a belt clip on it..



Did they forget that belts are supposed to help keep one's pants up? 😂


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 26, 2022)

Asura 3.0FE first impressions:

This writeup isn't going to be as long as some of my previous "first thoughts" posts because the Asura 3.0FEs are about as straightforward as you can get. I definitely mean that as a compliment in an era when many sets of IEMs, headphones, and earbuds often shoot themselves in the foot by trying to do too much and never accomplishing much if any of it.

First off, I love the black braided fabric sheath below the split contrasted with the clear insulated copper leads heading to each earbud above it. It gives the Asura 3.0s a premium look that sets them apart from the crowd while still being clean and understated. The gunmetal PK shaped shells have a nice feel and, of course, are super comfy in that they disappear in your ear like many PK based buds. So VE gets two thumbs up for the looks in my book.

As for sound, the Asura 3.0s are pretty easy to figure out from the jump. The bass is lean and tight which I have no problem with in a neutralish mid-centric earbud, but I do have a problem with the articulation. The bass notes are a little soft and lack a bit of definition so these buds are not what you're gonna want to pick to listen to music driven by powerful drum beats and a bass guitar line or electonic bass drops and beats. The mids are clear and detailed with a very realistic note decay and natural timbre that renders acoustic guitars, mid based instruments like violins and saxophones, and most vocal performances with life like realism that can really suck you into a song. I would like to make sure to note here that male vocal performances with a lot of grit/gravel are perhaps the only vocals these buds don't do nearly perfectly. I'm not sure why, but this particular vocal presentation comes across feeling a little one dimensional and sucked out, not lifeless, but lacking some of the realism other vocals are infused with. The treble extends well and gives you all the micro details you could want and helps to provide the Asura 3.0s with a pretty large soundstage.

Basically, the Asura 3.0s are a mid-range specialist that sounds very realistic and avoids the overly bright presentation pitfall that many mid-centric specialist buds fall into. They are a very good earbud for acoustic tracks and certain solo or small ensemble instrumental tracks. Their Achilles heal is the problem with the soft bass. You don't need bass in large quanitities to render a lot of music very adeptly, but when a bud lacks the defining edges and articulation in its bass presentation it greatly limits the musical genres and styles that it can adequately produce. Because of this the Asura 3.0s can't do most rock well, struggles with anything electronic, and even full orchestral pieces often require more authority from the low end than the Asura 3.0s have to give.

The way the low end limits these earbuds is really too bad because the Asura 3.0s have two-thirds of a highly competent and enjoyable sound signature and presentation that is really let down by the last third. If only VE had gotten the low end right these would be a great earbud. I plan to keep listening and experimenting because the technical and sonic attributes of the mids and highs make it difficult to dismiss this bud without really trying to find their wheelhouse first, but so far I am actually almost sad by the potential I can hear that the Asura 3.0s never quite meet. Maybe if I try hard enough I'll find the magic combo that makes them shine anyways...

There! Are you happy now @o0genesis0o ?!?!?

Next up is the VE Sun Dice and a little compare and contrast between the Fiio FF3s and the RikuBuds Rider 1 by request (lookin' @ttorbic ). Not sure when I'll have either up so keep an eye out if you're interested!


----------



## o0genesis0o (Aug 26, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Asura 3.0FE first impressions:
> 
> This writeup isn't going to be as long as some of my previous "first thoughts" posts because the Asura 3.0FEs are about as straightforward as you can get. I definitely mean that as a compliment in an era when many sets of IEMs, headphones, and earbuds often shoot themselves in the foot by trying to do too much and never accomplishing much if any of it.
> 
> ...



Thanks mate!

Good to know that I can skip these buds  

Edit: comparing FF3 with basshead buds by Riku would be interesting. Fancy acoustic design vs carefully tuned MX500 (?) shell.


----------



## mt877

o0genesis0o said:


> Thanks mate!
> 
> Good to know that I can skip these buds
> 
> Edit: comparing FF3 with basshead buds by Riku would be interesting. Fancy acoustic design vs carefully tuned MX500 (?) shell.


You already liked this post I'm linking which has the comparison.


----------



## syazwaned

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Asura 3.0FE first impressions:
> 
> This writeup isn't going to be as long as some of my previous "first thoughts" posts because the Asura 3.0FEs are about as straightforward as you can get. I definitely mean that as a compliment in an era when many sets of IEMs, headphones, and earbuds often shoot themselves in the foot by trying to do too much and never accomplishing much if any of it.
> 
> ...



thanks, so no Asura F.E 3.0 for me haha


----------



## syazwaned

mt877 said:


> FiiO FF3 (balanced foams) vs RikuBuds Berserker 1 (donut foams):
> 
> First, gotta give some props to @RikudouGoku for coming up with the Berserker 1 buds. For those who have had the pleasure to hear them, you already know why they are in @WoodyLuvr's current top 3 buds lineup.
> 
> ...




Thanks!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

BTW guys, I know I have mentioned this a few times recently in passing, but I just wanted to make a post about it now. If any of you are looking for a great pair of value buds you can get these 80ohm copper shelled LCP driver mmcx earbuds from NSC Audio DIY Store on AliExpress for $17 without a cable and I think $24 with a cable and they are absolutely a steal for the money!

The shells are gorgeous and the whole build is high quality and looks quite classy. The bass reaches deep and has a nice helping of rumble to it. The mids are detailed and lush leaning toward male vocals, but still very good throughout the range. The treble is perhaps a touch reserved, but it still extends pretty high and has a very natural timbre, sparkle, and decay. The overall effect is a smooth powerful earbud that will get you toes tappin and your head bobbin to the beat. These can be driven from your average smart phone, but just giving them the minimal support of a decent dongle really takes them to the next level and they have the resolving capabilities to give you all the detail that good source files through a decent DAC can provide.

I can't recommend them highly enough. They're one hell of a bargain!


----------



## o0genesis0o (Aug 26, 2022)

mt877 said:


> You already liked this post I'm linking which has the comparison.


Oh yeah. Thanks for reminding me. Too many posts  

If FF5 craps out, I would certainly get a pair of bass cannon from Riku and the speaker-like pair by tgx to experience. I’m curious to see how Riku manages to squeeze that much bass out of an MX500 shell.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Aug 26, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> BTW guys, I know I have mentioned this a few times recently in passing, but I just wanted to make a post about it now. If any of you are looking for a great pair of value buds you can get these 80ohm copper shelled LCP driver mmcx earbuds from NSC Audio DIY Store on AliExpress for $17 without a cable and I think $24 with a cable and they are absolutely a steal for the money!
> 
> The shells are gorgeous and the whole build is high quality and looks quite classy. The bass reaches deep and has a nice helping of rumble to it. The mids are detailed and lush leaning toward male vocals, but still very good throughout the range. The treble is perhaps a touch reserved, but it still extends pretty high and has a very natural timbre, sparkle, and decay. The overall effect is a smooth powerful earbud that will get you toes tappin and your head bobbin to the beat. These can be driven from your average smart phone, but just giving them the minimal support of a decent dongle really takes them to the next level and they have the resolving capabilities to give you all the detail that good source files through a decent DAC can provide.
> 
> I can't recommend them highly enough. They're one hell of a bargain!



This one? Is it any good comparing to FF3 though

Edit: I might go to the local hifi store to audition some DAPs and amps today. I can’t believe that I have become the type of people that I looked at in disbelief when I started this “hobby”. You know, the ones who spend hours comparing two amplifiers to see which one has more soundstage


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> This one? Is it any good comparing to FF3 though
> 
> Edit: I might go to the local hifi store to audition some DAPs and amps today. I can’t believe that I have become the type of people that I looked at in disbelief when I started this “hobby”. You know, the ones who spend hours comparing two amplifiers to see which one has more soundstage



No, that isn't it. I can't get my phone to stop opening AliExpress in the app so i can copy the link otherwise i would have posted it. I'm working on it though.


----------



## baskingshark

I discovered something interesting on the Yinman 600 ohm aliexpress store site:






Apparently it is under the Toneking brand. Not sure if Yinman is related/an OEM of Toneking as such! Maybe boss @WoodyLuvr can shed some light on this!


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> I discovered something interesting on the Yinman 600 ohm aliexpress store site:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently it is under the Toneking brand. Not sure if Yinman is related/an OEM of Toneking as such! Maybe boss @WoodyLuvr can shed some light on this!


That is very interesting.


----------



## christianfps

I wish the FF3 cables came with clips with them, the cable play is quite unpredictable and sometimes it tugs my buds. Any recommendations?


----------



## samandhi

christianfps said:


> I wish the FF3 cables came with clips with them, the cable play is quite unpredictable and sometimes it tugs my buds. Any recommendations?


https://www.amazon.com/Earphone-Deg.../ref=sr_1_6?keywords=earbud+shirt+clip&sr=8-6


----------



## samandhi (Aug 26, 2022)

christianfps said:


> I wish the FF3 cables came with clips with them, the cable play is quite unpredictable and sometimes it tugs my buds. Any recommendations?


These are actually nicer, but more bulky... 

Edit: And this will keep the cable from getting caught in anything but doesn't hold it tight (keeping from pulling the buds out), AND this one looks really cool.... hehe


----------



## Ronion

christianfps said:


> I wish the FF3 cables came with clips with them, the cable play is quite unpredictable and sometimes it tugs my buds. Any recommendations?


I did put clips on mine.  Solved my woes, but all I had was white ones that don’t go well with the black and grey.


----------



## mt877

christianfps said:


> I wish the FF3 cables came with clips with them, the cable play is quite unpredictable and sometimes it tugs my buds. Any recommendations?


The cable is pliable but stubborn and holds a twist. From the Y splitter to the buds try to remove the twist before putting them in your ears. If you can, when you store them coil the cable loosely. After a while the entire cable relaxes and will be more manageable.


----------



## samandhi

Not exactly related to shirt clips, but with this, I don't really need any. My work supplies my "work shirts" that come with little pockets and a loop to keep from getting caught in anything, thus reducing the need for an actual clip. 



Spoiler


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Not exactly related to shirt clips, but with this, I don't really need any. My work supplies my "work shirts" that come with little pockets and a loop to keep from getting caught in anything, thus reducing the need for an actual clip.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Ha, aren't you supposed to mount a camera there so your bosses can spy monitor your work progress?


----------



## samandhi (Aug 26, 2022)

mt877 said:


> Ha, aren't you supposed to mount a camera there so your bosses can spy monitor your work progress?


Well, in fairness, where I work there normally are cameras "shining" down upon one's every movement...  I guess they felt it redundant?!

Edit: Schools, govt. buildings, tank factories, etc... But don't give them any ideas huh?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> This one? Is it any good comparing to FF3 though
> 
> Edit: I might go to the local hifi store to audition some DAPs and amps today. I can’t believe that I have become the type of people that I looked at in disbelief when I started this “hobby”. You know, the ones who spend hours comparing two amplifiers to see which one has more soundstage



https://m.nl.aliexpress.com/item/10...u_2001941475688.0&gatewayAdapt=gloPc2nldMsite

This is the link for the buds I'm talking about, which are the 80ohm LCP version (the metal grille version is LCP, black plastic grill is titanium). 

Funny you mention the FF3s because these copper shelled buds are similar in many ways. Obviously, they don't have that huge presentation l, but one might say they're a poor man's version of the FF3s.


----------



## DBaldock9

mt877 said:


> Just found this site, maybe our hearing or headphones / earphones / iems / flat head buds need a sanity check from time to time?
> Our equipment will most likely exceed our hearing capability.
> 
> The Ultimate Headphones (and Earphones) Test



I think there a few of us who have a link to the Audio Check website in our Forum Signature.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> https://m.nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005004259413385.html?browser_id=d5bde114eedf4d50958e6773486904e7&pvid=2a6d17a9-12a0-4fa2-beb0-80f88242d5e0&_t=gps-idcStoreJustForYou,scm-url:1007.23125.271119.0,pvid:2a6d17a9-12a0-4fa2-beb0-80f88242d5e0&aff_platform=msite&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000028552405916","ship_from":"CN"}&aff_trace_key=e42f3d7d0f6647ed9bb40ab0e78fc438-1661416267415-07110-UneMJZVf&gps-id=pcStoreJustForYou&scm=1007.23125.271119.0&scm-url=1007.23125.271119.0&scm_id=1007.23125.271119.0&is_c=N&spm=a2g0n.store_m_home.smartJustForYou_2001941475688.0&gatewayAdapt=gloPc2nldMsite
> 
> This is the link for the buds I'm talking about, which are the 80ohm LCP version (the metal grille version is LCP, black plastic grill is titanium).
> 
> Funny you mention the FF3s because these copper shelled buds are similar in many ways. Obviously, they don't have that huge presentation l, but one might say they're a poor man's version of the FF3s.


Similar looking to these.


----------



## samandhi

DBaldock9 said:


> I think there a few of us who have a link to the Audio Check website in our Forum Signature.


I just use this one normally, but have also bookmarked the one @mt877 linked...


----------



## christianfps

samandhi said:


> And this will keep the cable from getting caught in anything but doesn't hold it tight (keeping from pulling the buds out), AND this one looks really cool.... hehe





mt877 said:


> The cable is pliable but stubborn and holds a twist. From the Y splitter to the buds try to remove the twist before putting them in your ears. If you can, when you store them coil the cable loosely. After a while the entire cable relaxes and will be more manageable.



Thank you so much for the recommendations and suggestions, I appreciate it! I thought I was the only one having some difficulties with the cable haha!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Similar looking to these.



Indeed, but I think they're actually quite a bit better.


----------



## mt877

DBaldock9 said:


> I think there a few of us who have a link to the Audio Check website in our Forum Signature.


As always, hiding in plain sight. It's a nice site and worth sharing the link to on a regular basis... or you need to post more often so everyone can see your signature.


----------



## syazwaned

does headphiles forum works? Last time I checked it linked me to hooking up website


----------



## samandhi

christianfps said:


> Thank you so much for the recommendations and suggestions, I appreciate it! I thought I was the only one having some difficulties with the cable haha!


Nope, you aren't the only one. I don't hate it, but I also don't especially love it either. I like how thick it is, but wish it were more pliable....


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Nope, you aren't the only one. I don't hate it, but I also don't especially love it either. I like how thick it is, but wish it were more pliable....



Yeah, I think braided would have been the way to go. This cable would be much better if it wasn't so prone to resting in loops/coils. As it is it's not great, but it's not bad. It's just meh.

Which reminds me, I need to set aside a few hours to set about figuring out a recable or mmcx mod on my alternate experimental pair.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Testing M11plus with a bunch of stuffs. Everything sounds better than my KA3. The FF3 sounds absolutely epic with extra power.


----------



## tendou

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Asura 3.0FE first impressions:
> 
> This writeup isn't going to be as long as some of my previous "first thoughts" posts because the Asura 3.0FEs are about as straightforward as you can get. I definitely mean that as a compliment in an era when many sets of IEMs, headphones, and earbuds often shoot themselves in the foot by trying to do too much and never accomplishing much if any of it.
> 
> ...


What is an example of male vocal with grits and gravel?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

tendou said:


> What is an example of male vocal with grits and gravel?



Anything bluesy a la Steve Earle for example. Also anything involving some rock and roll yelling. What I meant was basically male vocals involving those kinds of sound rather than more refined singing to a specific key. You get what I mean?


----------



## tendou

JAnonymous5150 said:


> https://m.nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005004259413385.html?browser_id=d5bde114eedf4d50958e6773486904e7&pvid=2a6d17a9-12a0-4fa2-beb0-80f88242d5e0&_t=gps-idcStoreJustForYou,scm-url:1007.23125.271119.0,pvid:2a6d17a9-12a0-4fa2-beb0-80f88242d5e0&aff_platform=msite&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000028552405916","ship_from":"CN"}&aff_trace_key=e42f3d7d0f6647ed9bb40ab0e78fc438-1661416267415-07110-UneMJZVf&gps-id=pcStoreJustForYou&scm=1007.23125.271119.0&scm-url=1007.23125.271119.0&scm_id=1007.23125.271119.0&is_c=N&spm=a2g0n.store_m_home.smartJustForYou_2001941475688.0&gatewayAdapt=gloPc2nldMsite
> 
> This is the link for the buds I'm talking about, which are the 80ohm LCP version (the metal grille version is LCP, black plastic grill is titanium).
> 
> Funny you mention the FF3s because these copper shelled buds are similar in many ways. Obviously, they don't have that huge presentation l, but one might say they're a poor man's version of the FF3s.


This one is different from the openheart bud right?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

tendou said:


> This one is different from the openheart bud right?



Yes and definitely better. The OpenHearts are good for their price. These NSC Audio LCP buds are just plain good and if someone slapped a logo and a popular brand name on them they would easily sell and sell well for quite a bit more cash, IMO. I like to think I'm pretty level headed and not prone to hyperbole.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

baskingshark said:


> I discovered something interesting on the Yinman 600 ohm aliexpress store site:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently it is under the Toneking brand. Not sure if Yinman is related/an OEM of Toneking as such! Maybe boss @WoodyLuvr can shed some light on this!


Never seen or heard about any relationship between *Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 *and *Toneking 天魁電子科技 Tiankui Electronic Technology (aka MrZ - MusicMaker)*. I be very surprised as they use different drivers and are tuned completely different as well. Though they may indeed be one-in-the-same. If anyone knows of such a relationship please kindly speak up and enlighten us all.

I would chalk this up to a data entry error by AVCCK and/or AliExpress. I have seen this a number of times and it has consistently always been "Toneking"... maybe they are copying over a template or something and simply forgetting to delete and/or update this one field.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Alright, is there any South Australian lurking here? My local hifi store told me that some users with extensive high-end IEM collections came and bought FF3 specifically. They sold out now


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Testing M11plus with a bunch of stuffs. Everything sounds better than my KA3. The FF3 sounds absolutely epic with extra power.


Wait! Did you just get that?


----------



## DBaldock9

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Asura 3.0FE first impressions:
> 
> This writeup isn't going to be as long as some of my previous "first thoughts" posts because the Asura 3.0FEs are about as straightforward as you can get. I definitely mean that as a compliment in an era when many sets of IEMs, headphones, and earbuds often shoot themselves in the foot by trying to do too much and never accomplishing much if any of it.
> 
> ...



I'm surprised that the Asura has been changed from a MX500, to a PK style shell.
Both of my sets - Asura 2.0 (2017), and Asura 2.0s AOE (2019) - are MX500 shells.
Like yours, their Midrange is the standout.


----------



## tendou

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Yes and definitely better. The OpenHearts are good for their price. These NSC Audio LCP buds are just plain good and if someone slapped a logo and a popular brand name on them they would easily sell and sell well for quite a bit more cash, IMO. I like to think I'm pretty level headed and not prone to hyperbole.


Thank you!


----------



## prakasitp

JAnonymous5150 said:


> https://m.nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005004259413385.html?browser_id=d5bde114eedf4d50958e6773486904e7&pvid=2a6d17a9-12a0-4fa2-beb0-80f88242d5e0&_t=gps-idcStoreJustForYou,scm-url:1007.23125.271119.0,pvid:2a6d17a9-12a0-4fa2-beb0-80f88242d5e0&aff_platform=msite&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000028552405916","ship_from":"CN"}&aff_trace_key=e42f3d7d0f6647ed9bb40ab0e78fc438-1661416267415-07110-UneMJZVf&gps-id=pcStoreJustForYou&scm=1007.23125.271119.0&scm-url=1007.23125.271119.0&scm_id=1007.23125.271119.0&is_c=N&spm=a2g0n.store_m_home.smartJustForYou_2001941475688.0&gatewayAdapt=gloPc2nldMsite
> 
> This is the link for the buds I'm talking about, which are the 80ohm LCP version (the metal grille version is LCP, black plastic grill is titanium).
> 
> Funny you mention the FF3s because these copper shelled buds are similar in many ways. Obviously, they don't have that huge presentation l, but one might say they're a poor man's version of the FF3s.


There is a Thai local brand who has similar shell. https://linktr.ee/neosound?utm_sour...re&ltsid=13531515-0a50-4c54-9019-2b97262ea0ee


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> Wait! Did you just get that?



I’m waiting for M11s. Should be a couple hundred AUD cheaper. Feel so sad when I listen to my FF3 with my KA3 and Hidizs DAP though.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> I’m waiting for M11s. Should be a couple hundred AUD cheaper. Feel so sad when I listen to my FF3 with my KA3 and Hidizs DAP though.


Sweet! I didn't know. Last I heard about that was that you were just looking.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

prakasitp said:


> There is a Thai local brand who has similar shell. https://linktr.ee/neosound?utm_sour...re&ltsid=13531515-0a50-4c54-9019-2b97262ea0ee


*2021 - NeoSound NeoSoul Harmony; 32Ω*


----------



## WoodyLuvr

JAnonymous5150 said:


> However, I have a beautiful vintage Steinway grand piano in my music room that was my grandmother's and is now mine. I use it for songwriting even though I am nowhere near talented enough on the Piano to do it justice. I mention the piano because that Steinway is my reference piano tone and it has always sounded so damn beautiful to me.


Parlor or concert? Year? I adore vintage pianos and harpsichords. Send a pic with your earbuds on it so that way it remains subject relevant .


----------



## JAnonymous5150

prakasitp said:


> There is a Thai local brand who has similar shell. https://linktr.ee/neosound?utm_sour...re&ltsid=13531515-0a50-4c54-9019-2b97262ea0ee



They have some cool looking buds and IEMs in that shop. I'm glad they don't ship to the US or I would have been ordering more buds to demo lol!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

WoodyLuvr said:


> Parlor or concert? Year? I adore vintage pianos and harpsichords. Send a pic with your earbuds on it so that way it remains subject relevant .



1938 Steinway Concert Grand Piano in Ebony made to my grandmother's order. I believe the model is A-3, IIRC. I will take a picture when it's not 2AM here lol! It is a beautiful sounding and looking piano that has been well taken care of since it was purchased. It was my grandmother's prized possession and my mother treated it likewise. Since it has been mine I have had it inspected yearly, tuned, oiled, and otherwise cared for. When I couldn't fit it in the apartment I lived in when my mother first gave it to me I even paid to rent a temperature and humidity controlled storage space meant for storing musical instruments, art, etc. 

I love sitting down to write songs on it, but I love it even more when my girlfriend or another skilled pianist plays something on it. From the first notes you can tell why they are so sought after. The piano just has a soul all it's own that it infuses every not with. Strike a single note or chord and it will reaonate and sustain for days.

To keep this post relevant I will add that I will often compare the way a recorded piano sounds to how this piano sounds when listening to earbuds while demoing them and assessing the naturalness of their timbre and realism of their noteweight and presentation on relevant pieces allowing for things like compression of course lol!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

DBaldock9 said:


> I'm surprised that the Asura has been changed from a MX500, to a PK style shell.
> Both of my sets - Asura 2.0 (2017), and Asura 2.0s AOE (2019) - are MX500 shells.
> Like yours, their Midrange is the standout.



You're the second person to mention that to me. I haven't heard any of the earlier Asura models, but I can say that these fit like a dream because of the PK shape and the metal build that adds a little weight which lets them nestle gently in the bottom of my concha. I didn't need the ear hooks/fins they come with to stabilize the fit at all, although I tried them just to make sure.

I purchased these because I asked the VE store on AliExpress what the two best VE buds they offered were and they named these and the Sun Dice which were both also recommended by the friend I mentioned previously who loves VE buds.


----------



## FranQL (Aug 27, 2022)

Brief generic and surely not very useful opinions of VE APW (Asura Pure White) with whom I am spending the month so far (thanks @Charlyro222 ). As always I do not go into intangibles because I do not have that ability, and there is no graph, because I accidentally broke the microphone of my measurement equipment.




(Yes, my table is a complete mess, don't reprimand me, there are more people at home who do it constantly)

The bell shape is recurrent in the high-end models of VE and for me the fit is good, they do not move and I find it very comfortable simply with donut foams (with complete this bud loses many of the things that I indicate here). This ultra thin and quite stiff silver cable is very very nice and feels of superior quality, gives a fragile look to the set (but it isn't) and is different from anything else I've ever had (except the goddess cables that I use on my DIY), without microphones.

A bud focused on Upper Mids but with clarity, air, separation, great scenery (I don't know how to say it, super atmospheric and more laterility than depth) and a tonality that makes the voices perfect as well as the strings, keyboards, pianos, very natural guitars and even more perfect are the female voices, it reaches high, without hissing or harshness, it can be rejected by sensitive people, for me there is no problem. If you like Jazz, Soul, vocal etc, I think he is a great specialist, he works great with soft ambient and with soundtracks (here the bass hits dry and is fast, without much depth and that speed leaves sometimes without juice or without that resonance of the timpani, it is not an all-rounder, for me it did not work with another of the great genres that I like: rock, progressive rock, heavy, metal, etc, where something is missing and the presentation is not complete.

Personally I liked it, because it works well with most of the music I listen to, I wouldn't say it's just one trick, it just doesn't stand out in some genres.

Reference tuning, very enjoyable and specialized. I've used it on a portable DAP and DAC, and I understand there will be other amps where it will improve overall.


----------



## prakasitp

JAnonymous5150 said:


> They have some cool looking buds and IEMs in that shop. I'm glad they don't ship to the US or I would have been ordering more buds to demo lol!


I can send you some if you want 🤩🤩🤩


----------



## JAnonymous5150

prakasitp said:


> I can send you some if you want 🤩🤩🤩



You better be careful what you offer lol!


----------



## Biosdestroyer

Hello everyone. Can't gather much info to decide which pair to choose- NiceHCK B70/EB2S/Qian 69. All reviews say that these pairs sound good for their price. Yet one review would say that "EB2S have good depth of bass" while other would say that "EB2S dont have good lower frequencies". Previously was using 6-yr old blue Qian's like these 



Spoiler



https://aliexpress.ru/item/10050027...ent=1068989&utm_medium=cpa&utm_source=admitad






and they sounded good for me. But now i decided to get something better than this pair. 
As for the sound,i prefer more details overall and soft bass with wide scene,mainly listening with mobile phone


----------



## christianfps

After a few days with the FF3s I tried to listen to my Tanchjim Olas again and I can't believe it, I prefer the warm tuning of the FF3s now and the Olas sounded really flat. While a couple of days ago I loved it so much.

What have you guys done to me hahaha


----------



## mt877 (Aug 27, 2022)

christianfps said:


> After a few days with the FF3s I tried to listen to my Tanchjim Olas again and I can't believe it, I prefer the warm tuning of the FF3s now and the Olas sounded really flat. While a couple of days ago I loved it so much.
> 
> What have you guys done to me hahaha


Fortune cookie says: You will fall under a spell that you cannot escape. Lucky numbers: FF3, FF5, RW2000, RW3000, PK1, PK2


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 27, 2022)

mt877 said:


> Fortune cookie says: You will fall under a spell that you cannot escape. Lucky numbers: FF3, FF5, RW2000, RW3000, PK1, PK2



LOL

I didn't know your nickname was "Fortune Cookie!" That's a cute one!

@christianfps Part of the reason the IEMs sound off is that after you spend a solid length of time (the length is different from person to person) listening to a particular transducer your brain adjusts what it expects to hear as it's normal or preferred presentation of the sonic spectrum. When you change back to a previously used setup it will often sound off because of the differences in it's presentation versus the setup you just acclimated to. This is the principal that the idea of "brain burn in" is based around and it's why you'll often see people say that you need to spend at least a few days with a new transducer before you decide whether or not you like it to allow your brain to adjust.

I have found that if you change the transducers you use often (think daily or more often) this will impact you less, but, in my experience, it never goes away completely. If you've read my "first impressions" posts you'll notice that i mention that I plan on doing several more sessions with a given pair of buds before I make up my mind about them. This is part of the reason why. It's crazy how far our brains' perspectives on normal/preferred sounds can change without us even knowing it's happening, right?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Biosdestroyer said:


> Hello everyone. Can't gather much info to decide which pair to choose- NiceHCK B70/EB2S/Qian 69. All reviews say that these pairs sound good for their price. Yet one review would say that "EB2S have good depth of bass" while other would say that "EB2S dont have good lower frequencies". Previously was using 6-yr old blue Qian's like these
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Of these, I have only heard the EB2S and, IMO, it has a full, balanced, and slightly warm sound signature. The overall presentation is very smooth and laid back which for some people could make the bass seem as if it lacks some definition, power, or impact, but to me the bass exists in the right amount with a presentation that's commensurate with it's overall sound signature.

I hope this helps you out a little bit and maybe someone else that's heard the others can offer up their opinions on them. Good luck and happy hunting! I hope you find what you're looking for.


----------



## Biosdestroyer

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Of these, I have only heard the EB2S and, IMO, it has a full, balanced, and slightly warm sound signature. The overall presentation is very smooth and laid back which for some people could make the bass seem as if it lacks some definition, power, or impact, but to me the bass exists in the right amount with a presentation that's commensurate with it's overall sound signature.
> 
> I hope this helps you out a little bit and maybe someone else that's heard the others can offer up their opinions on them. Good luck and happy hunting! I hope you find what you're looking for.


Thanks for the answer


----------



## christianfps

mt877 said:


> FF5, RW2000, RW3000, PK1, PK2


Really looking forward for the FF5! As for the Cows maybe I'll slowly start from the youngest one (calf) and make my way up to the big boys haha! Really interested with the Viridis with bass foams. 

Has anyone tried the Toneking Music Maker? 

Another question, any good earbuds with almost the same form factor as airpods? 🤔




JAnonymous5150 said:


> It's crazy how far our brains' perspectives on normal/preferred sounds can change without us even knowing it's happening, right?


Yeah I'm quite amazed coz I transitioned from almost purely headphones to IEMS and now the earbuds haha! And just like learning new stuff, you have to let your body adapt to it for some time.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

christianfps said:


> Really interested with the Viridis with bass foams.



I really like this combo which is why I recommended it, of course! Using the bass foams lets you keep everything that's great about the Virdis (detail, treble extension, heavenly mids, and fast agile bass) while smoothing and refining the upper mid to low treble region, making it smoother and less peaky and adding a bit more body to the low end. I'm really glad that I tried this out.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

BTW, for everyone that's interested, I messaged the Fiio accounts on head-fi and reddit and I emailed customer service about the possibility of purchasing more of the bass foams that come with the FF3s. I'm just letting you guys know and I will update the thread on any answer(s) I receive. 

I'm going to see what answer I get from these messages and then, if necessary, try other contact routes like finding a phone number or catching their CEO when he pops up on discord from time to time (yup, I'm willing to go that far lol). These bass foams have too many good applications to have just the pairs that came with the buds. I have 2 bags that came with each of my FF3s and I just got a third this morning from my tube expert friend who just recieved his FF3s and finds the bass foams to not be to his taste. The FF3s are the only earbuds he owns so he had no problem giving up the bass foams when I mentioned how useful they are for other things in passing. Still though, I'm hopping to be able to purchase a stock of then rather than having to hustle everybody I run into who owns the FF3s lol!


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> BTW, for everyone that's interested, I messaged the Fiio accounts on head-fi and reddit and I emailed customer service about the possibility of purchasing more of the bass foams that come with the FF3s. I'm just letting you guys know and I will update the thread on any answer(s) I receive.
> 
> I'm going to see what answer I get from these messages and then, if necessary, try other contact routes like finding a phone number or catching their CEO when he pops up on discord from time to time (yup, I'm willing to go that far lol). These bass foams have too many good applications to have just the pairs that came with the buds. I have 2 bags that came with each of my FF3s and I just got a third this morning from my tube expert friend who just recieved his FF3s and finds the bass foams to not be to his taste. The FF3s are the only earbuds he owns so he had no problem giving up the bass foams when I mentioned how useful they are for other things in passing. Still though, I'm hopping to be able to purchase a stock of then rather than having to hustle everybody I run into who owns the FF3s lol!


You could also try their own forums. I used to communicate with their people over there fairly regularly, back when I was using the X5 and X3II and (at least at that time) they were pretty active on there. I was actually pretty active there for quite a time until... I would offer to do it myself, however I probably don't have a very good reputation there after they decided to discontinue both devices (before they were finished fixing the bugs). LOL

In hindsight, I feel badly for behaving that way, but I felt that I paid good money for something that only half worked (the way it was advertised). Basically, they released all of their X devices (non android) in a half finished state with the promise to bring features that most other DAPs came standard with (ie... battery calibration that was accurate). I suppose it was my own fault because I knew (sort of) what I was getting into when I bought them (but they were competing with A&K for sound, but for much less money). So naturally I behaved as a disgruntled customer and was certainly not quiet about it (though I was never rude as it were). They never banned me (because I didn't actually do anything wrong), they simply ignored me...... Oh the memories! 

I'm actually a bit ashamed of that, and that is the reason I have never bought anything from FiiO since then (until now with the FF3).


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> You could also try their own forums. I used to communicate with their people over there fairly regularly, back when I was using the X5 and X3II and (at least at that time) they were pretty active on there. I was actually pretty active there for quite a time until... I would offer to do it myself, however I probably don't have a very good reputation there after they decided to discontinue both devices (before they were finished fixing the bugs). LOL
> 
> In hindsight, I feel badly for behaving that way, but I felt that I paid good money for something that only half worked (the way it was advertised). Basically, they released all of their X devices (non android) in a half finished state with the promise to bring features that most other DAPs came standard with (ie... battery calibration that was accurate). I suppose it was my own fault because I knew (sort of) what I was getting into when I bought them (but they were competing with A&K for sound, but for much less money). So naturally I behaved as a disgruntled customer and was certainly not quiet about it (though I was never rude as it were). They never banned me (because I didn't actually do anything wrong), they simply ignored me...... Oh the memories!
> 
> I'm actually a bit ashamed of that, and that is the reason I have never bought anything from FiiO since then (until now with the FF3).



So you're saying that I shouldn't say "samandhi sent me" when I introduce myself? 😜

Seriously though, it sounds like you had a legitimate bone to pick at least. And we all act in ways wedl come to regret on occasion so there's no need to be embarrassed or to beat yourself up about it now. You're suggestion to contact them through their own forums is a good idea though. Somehow it didn't even occur to me so thanks!


----------



## tgx78

FranQL said:


> Brief generic and surely not very useful opinions of VE APW (Asura Pure White) with whom I am spending the month so far (thanks @Charlyro222 ). As always I do not go into intangibles because I do not have that ability, and there is no graph, because I accidentally broke the microphone of my measurement equipment.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wish I lived in Spain so I can access @Charlyro222 ‘s collection and eat Spanish food everyday.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> So you're saying that I shouldn't say "samandhi sent me" when I introduce myself? 😜
> 
> Seriously though, it sounds like you had a legitimate bone to pick at least. And we all act in ways wedl come to regret on occasion so there's no need to be embarrassed or to beat yourself up about it now. You're suggestion to contact them through their own forums is a good idea though. Somehow it didn't even occur to me so thanks!


Probably not the best idea I have seen from you.... lol  (though I sort of doubt they would remember me by now anyhow)

I think I had a legitimate "cause"; I probably just didn't handle it too well, I think. But I haven't really spoken about it until now because I don't normally show my arse, and try and remain at least pleasant "sounding" if nothing else... haha

Just let us know how it goes?! I find both the "bass" and "balanced" foams to be really sort of on a different level than cheapo foams (Heigi being another, but they aren't "cheapo" to begin with). 


tgx78 said:


> Wish I lived in Spain so I can access @Charlyro222 ‘s collection and eat Spanish food everyday.


Yeah, except their mail service is WAY worse than even China or US when trying to get/send something that is out of country....  Otherwise, I totally agree with your statement!


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> LOL
> 
> I didn't know your nickname was "Fortune Cookie!" That's a cute one!


Not me... Let the Fortune Cookie speak for itself. You can't make this stuff up. LOL


----------



## qua2k

You all are making it very hard to not hit the buy now button for an FF3.


----------



## mt877

qua2k said:


> You all are making it very hard to not hit the buy now button for an FF3.


Just do it, you won't regret it. Too many good testimonials here to lead you down the wrong path.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Not me... Let the Fortune Cookie speak for itself. You can't make this stuff up. LOL


OMG! That is fantastic!


qua2k said:


> You all are making it very hard to not hit the buy now button for an FF3.





mt877 said:


> Just do it, you won't regret it. Too many good testimonials here to lead you down the wrong path.


Yes, just listen to the fortune cookie.....

Seriously though, they DO tick all the boxes for an earbud (and then some). Are they perfect? Of course not. But I would argue that they do most things so well that (unless you are a total outlier in your preferred signature) you almost CAN'T be unhappy with them. Just IMHO! 

On the other hand, do NOT let anyone pressure you into buying them because if you do and you are not happy with them, I don't want you to be angry with those of us that REALLY like them. You make up your own mind, because you know what is best.... for you!


----------



## FranQL

tgx78 said:


> Wish I lived in Spain so I can access @Charlyro222 ‘s collection and eat Spanish food everyday.



Great collection, and great person.

Spanish food is something you will never get tired of!!!!!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

FranQL said:


> Great collection, and great person.
> 
> Spanish food is something you will never get tired of!!!!!



Last time I was in Madrid I pretty much just ate at a different tapas restaurant every night. The setup and dishes have a different twist at every restaurant, but somehow it's always so damn good. I loved it!


----------



## o0genesis0o

christianfps said:


> After a few days with the FF3s I tried to listen to my Tanchjim Olas again and I can't believe it, I prefer the warm tuning of the FF3s now and the Olas sounded really flat. While a couple of days ago I loved it so much.


Funny that you mentioned, I'm listening to OLA again before tearing it down later when my filters arrive. Let's see if I squeeze some more bass out of that driver. I found that the amount of bass is no different between OLA and FF3, but the punch and slam sensation is way better on FF3.



christianfps said:


> any good earbuds with almost the same form factor as airpods? 🤔


The EarPods sound like broken IEMs to me   They have low treble extension, low bass, and because of how they fit, their soundstage is not larger than IEM either. I'll grab an EarPods shell with MMCX after completing the first two buds that I ordered. Let's see if we can squeeze anything good out of the good old EarPods shell.


----------



## Kumonomukou

o0genesis0o said:


> Funny that you mentioned, I'm listening to OLA again before tearing it down later when my filters arrive. Let's see if I squeeze some more bass out of that driver. I found that the amount of bass is no different between OLA and FF3, but the punch and slam sensation is way better on FF3.
> 
> 
> The EarPods sound like broken IEMs to me   They have low treble extension, low bass, and because of how they fit, their soundstage is not larger than IEM either. I'll grab an EarPods shell with MMCX after completing the first two buds that I ordered. Let's see if we can squeeze anything good out of the good old EarPods shell.


I liked Earpods shell as well, for the comfort. In fact I did transplant a set of 2pin + drivers to this shell, but resulting a lackluster experience. I'd suggest using rather warm sounding drivers with plenty of isolation materials inside the shell.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Aug 27, 2022)

Kumonomukou said:


> I liked Earpods shell as well, for the comfort. In fact I did transplant a set of 2pin + drivers to this shell, but resulting a lackluster experience. I'd suggest using rather warm sounding drivers with plenty of isolation materials inside the shell.


Hi, thanks for the suggestion. What are the benefits of adding isolation materials inside the shell? I was planning to get drivers with the most high frequency energy and resolution that I can find (counter the treble loss of the shell design), and perhaps drill holes to increase the back venting (counter the lack of bass of the driver). Again, everything I say is still theoretical at this moment, as I have not built any ear buds yet


----------



## Ronion

I listened to my wife’s EarPods just 2 days ago for a sanity check.  My conclusion is that they sound fairly okay on pretty much everything, but no bass, treble, or soundstage.  Comfort is fantastic, but sound is just inoffensive.


----------



## samandhi (Aug 27, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Hi, thanks for the suggestion. What are the benefits of adding isolation materials inside the shell? I was planning to get drivers with the most high frequency energy and resolution that I can find (counter the treble loss of the shell design), and perhaps drill holes to increase the back venting (counter the lack of bass of the driver). Again, everything I say is still theoretical at this moment, as I have not built any ear buds yet


Well, for one adding isolation materials will change the technicalities, but more importantly, it helps tackle resonance. Keep in mind I am by no means an expert here, and others like all the DIYers will be able to answer more fully I would imagine. This is just my take on the matter.


----------



## baskingshark

JAnonymous5150 said:


> LOL
> 
> I didn't know your nickname was "Fortune Cookie!" That's a cute one!
> 
> ...



Ah yes that's a common problem when doing A/B testing with different transducers in a short span of time. The brain gets confused and uses the last IEM/earbud you just heard as a "reference point".

I realized a good way to "reset" the brain, is to use a neutralish transducer as a "palette cleanser" to go back to a sort of baseline in between comparisons. Other option is to let the ears rest for a few days, don't listen to anything, and then do the review with a fresh set of ears, so to speak.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

You guys want to hear an album that sounds absolutely sick on the FF3s? Deloused in the Crematorium by The Mars Volta is just ridiculous with that huge presentation they provide. If the idea of hardcore combine with prog rock with some afrobeat, avante garde jazz, and other craziness thrown in appeals to you, you'll find it all on this album. It's an intense album for sure. Enjoy!


----------



## o0genesis0o

baskingshark said:


> Ah yes that's a common problem when doing A/B testing with different transducers in a short span of time. The brain gets confused and uses the last IEM/earbud you just heard as a "reference point".
> 
> I realized a good way to "reset" the brain, is to use a neutralish transducer as a "palette cleanser" to go back to a sort of baseline in between comparisons. Other option is to let the ears rest for a few days, don't listen to anything, and then do the review with a fresh set of ears, so to speak.


I have also given up the manic rapid switching of IEM in 30 second intervals to A/B tests because of this reason. I think it is better to let the IEM settle for at least one song, and the switch, and let the other IEM settle. If one IEM is truely more resolving, for example, it would always be more resolving. If they are too close to compare, then perhaps the difference is insignificant.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> I have also given up the manic rapid switching of IEM in 30 second intervals to A/B tests because of this reason. I think it is better to let the IEM settle for at least one song, and the switch, and let the other IEM settle. If one IEM is truely more resolving, for example, it would always be more resolving. If they are too close to compare, then perhaps the difference is insignificant.


It is my thought that unless you are switching between known (or already owned) head gear, you should really give them a good couple of weeks of exclusive use to get all there is to get out of a set. Just my $.02 though.


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> It is my thought that unless you are switching between known (or already owned) head gear, you should really give them a good couple of weeks of exclusive use to get all there is to get out of a set. Just my $.02 though.


Of course, my routine is using the gear as usual, just casually listening for a while, before starting the critical listening for ranking. During the casual listening, I am usually able to form an opinion about the ranking already, but A/B tests sometime surprise me. I am usually more generous in rating without A/B testing. Of course, all of these “reviews” are just subjective rambling, but if I can ensure the consistency between my scores, it would be better.


----------



## ProspektFi (Aug 28, 2022)

Ronion said:


> I listened to my wife’s EarPods just 2 days ago for a sanity check.  My conclusion is that they sound fairly okay on pretty much everything, but no bass, treble, or soundstage.  Comfort is fantastic, but sound is just inoffensive.


I use my EarPods with full foams (thinner is better) from normal flathead earbuds and imaging, bass and mids get much better, but need some EQ to add treble extension, IMHO.  This way I almost always prefer them to my other similarly priced buds.


----------



## Ronion

ProspektFi said:


> I use my EarPods with full foams (thinner is better) from normal flathead earbuds and imaging, bass and mids get much better, but need some EQ to add treble extension, IMHO.  This way I almost always prefer them to my other similarly priced buds.


Do they get more bass that way?  I’ve never heard  EarPods with foams.  I know the Google buds released on 2017 do!  It also makes their pinna gain more neutral.


----------



## tendou

ProspektFi said:


> I use my EarPods with full foams (thinner is better) from normal flathead earbuds and imaging, bass and mids get much better, but need some EQ to add treble extension, IMHO.  This way I almost always prefer them to my other similarly priced buds.


I use half in ear with full foams too. Without them it sounds thin and a bit bright for podcast.

I wish they will make an earbuds shaped tws that sounds at least as good as qian39 for podcast and audiobook.

No company seems interested to experiment with other form than airpods except maybe the interestingly shaped Sony original linkbuds


----------



## tendou

Ronion said:


> Do they get more bass that way?  I’ve never heard  EarPods with foams.  I know the Google buds released on 2017 do!  It also makes their pinna gain more neutral.


Not sure about bass but vocals sounds less grating.
Not sure if I use the correct word


----------



## ProspektFi

Ronion said:


> Do they get more bass that way?  I’ve never heard  EarPods with foams.  I know the Google buds released on 2017 do!  It also makes their pinna gain more neutral.


Mostly mid-bass I have to say, maybe even a bit too much, but they sounds thin and lifeless without foams as I can't get a decent fit.


----------



## jao29 (Aug 28, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> You guys want to hear an album that sounds absolutely sick on the FF3s? Deloused in the Crematorium by The Mars Volta is just ridiculous with that huge presentation they provide. If the idea of hardcore combine with prog rock with some afrobeat, avante garde jazz, and other craziness thrown in appeals to you, you'll find it all on this album. It's an intense album for sure. Enjoy!


I love that album!! Does that mean the FF3’s sound great with their album Frances The Mute as well? 😃

I’m waiting for the FF5’s for now as to what that earbud would sound like but yeah, the FF3’s have got me intrigued.


----------



## christianfps

Hi guys quick inquiry can you listen to Sun and Moon by Anees and tell me where the guitar sound is coming from? I don't know if my ears are decieving or I'm not hearing it right but it feels like it's on the back-right like behind your head 😮. Listening it from my FF3.


----------



## samandhi

tendou said:


> I use half in ear with full foams too. Without them it sounds thin and a bit bright for podcast.
> 
> I wish they will make an earbuds shaped tws that sounds at least as good as qian39 for podcast and audiobook.
> 
> No company seems interested to experiment with other form than airpods except maybe the interestingly shaped Sony original linkbuds


You could always just get a set of buds that have MMCX and then use something like the FiiO UTWS5; earbuds WITH BT....


----------



## JAnonymous5150

jao29 said:


> I love that album!! Does that mean the FF3’s sound great with their album Frances The Mute as well? 😃
> 
> I’m waiting for the FF5’s for now as to what that earbud would sound like but yeah, the FF3’s have got me intrigued.



Absolutely, I binged on The Mars Volta yesterday and can tell you that the three tracks released off their upcoming album sound very good as well.

I'm stoked to see what the FF5s will have in store for us as well, but no matter how good they are I can say that the FF3s won't be going anywhere. They're just too good to be displaced!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

christianfps said:


> Hi guys quick inquiry can you listen to Sun and Moon by Anees and tell me where the guitar sound is coming from? I don't know if my ears are decieving or I'm not hearing it right but it feels like it's on the back-right like behind your head 😮. Listening it from my FF3.



If no one answers you beforehand, I can take a listen when I get home to my FF3s this afternoon/evening. I didn't bring them with me this morning unfortunately.


----------



## mt877

tendou said:


> I use half in ear with full foams too. Without them it sounds thin and a bit bright for podcast.
> 
> I wish they will make an earbuds shaped tws that sounds at least as good as qian39 for podcast and audiobook.
> 
> No company seems interested to experiment with other form than airpods except maybe the interestingly shaped Sony original linkbuds


Smabat M4 TWS module (release Oct. 2022):






You have to get the base M4 Modular headset (released):


----------



## WoodyLuvr

*@JAnonymous5150* I keep forgetting to ask you about the packaging of your *Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600 LE* earbuds... did they come in a finished box like mine or in a coffin case like *@samandhi*? Send a pic as he and I are curious about this. Thanks!



 *vs.*


----------



## samandhi

BTW! I own that Mars Volta album also. I only own that one (of 7 with the new one). I will have to look into their new upcoming one. Here (or their Bandcamp page here) is a good starting point. 



WoodyLuvr said:


> *@JAnonymous5150* I keep forgetting to ask you about the packaging of your *Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600 LE* earbuds... did they come in a finished box like mine or in a coffin case like *@samandhi*? Send a pic as he and I are curious about this. Thanks!
> 
> *vs.*


+1 on the curiosity.... 

As to the FF3, all I can say is that this sounds really really good on them; the whole album does really. They have 17 studio albums, and all are great IMO, but this one is one of their best (especially considering their age at this point):


----------



## JAnonymous5150

WoodyLuvr said:


> *@JAnonymous5150* I keep forgetting to ask you about the packaging of your *Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600 LE* earbuds... did they come in a finished box like mine or in a coffin case like *@samandhi*? Send a pic as he and I are curious about this. Thanks!
> 
> *vs.*



My 600s came in the coffin box unfortunately. I was hoping they would come in the nice finished one, but then again I probably wouldn't have ended up using it anyways so I guess it doesn't matter too much. The finished box you got just looks so much nicer. My guess is that as the popularity of the 600s has picked up they ran out of their stock of finished boxes and when it came time to make more boxes the coffin boxes were easier and/or cheaper.


----------



## assassin10000

ProspektFi said:


> I use my EarPods with full foams (thinner is better) from normal flathead earbuds and imaging, bass and mids get much better, but need some EQ to add treble extension, IMHO.  This way I almost always prefer them to my other similarly priced buds.


I did too with earpod/airpod shaped earbuds & tws. 

If you do the 'donut' version pictured below, you may not need as much eq.


Ronion said:


> Do they get more bass that way?  I’ve never heard  EarPods with foams.  I know the Google buds released on 2017 do!  It also makes their pinna gain more neutral.


Yes, as it provides some seal. Just like on regular earbuds. You can also make donuts for them.







tendou said:


> I use half in ear with full foams too. Without them it sounds thin and a bit bright for podcast.
> 
> I wish they will make an earbuds shaped tws that sounds at least as good as qian39 for podcast and audiobook.
> 
> No company seems interested to experiment with other form than airpods except maybe the interestingly shaped Sony original linkbuds


Samsung buds live is another tws. I like them better than the Sony linkbuds. Ymmv.

Or you can mod a tws.





samandhi said:


> You could always just get a set of buds that have MMCX and then use something like the FiiO UTWS5; earbuds WITH BT....


This. Been doing it for a long time.









My favorite for fit and sound are my diy buds on them though. PK shells are the most comfortable to me.


----------



## mt877

Smabat is now offering M4 tuning damper set for sale:


----------



## mt877

The M4 main module body can also be purchased separately now, but you would be better off to just purchase the base M4 modular headset complete.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> My 600s came in the coffin box unfortunately. I was hoping they would come in the nice finished one, but then again I probably wouldn't have ended up using it anyways so I guess it doesn't matter too much. The finished box you got just looks so much nicer. My guess is that as the popularity of the 600s has picked up they ran out of their stock of finished boxes and when it came time to make more boxes the coffin boxes were easier and/or cheaper.


Well, the upside of getting the "naked" box is that you get the nice carry case (as seen in the picture). I really like the finished box, but that one didn't come with a carry case. 

I ended up using my box for all my portable interconnects/adapters, which has come in real handy thus far.


----------



## drewbadour

Been listening to FF3 for a couple days now and you all weren't kidding when saying it's super sensitive to foams!

I tried balanced foams crisp foams first and found it a bit wonky in the lower mids and midbass regions but switching to bass foams cleared thay up altogether!

Enjoying it a lot now! Hopefully serratus clears customs this week and RikuBuds arrive but this is gonna be a fun fun week!


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 28, 2022)

samandhi said:


> BTW! I own that Mars Volta album also. I only own that one (of 7 with the new one). I will have to look into their new upcoming one. Here (or their Bandcamp page here) is a good starting point.
> 
> 
> +1 on the curiosity....
> ...




I like it!

If anyone wants a more laid back listen I heard an album in the wee hours this morning called Songs Without Jokes by Bret McKenzie. I had never heard or heard of him before I ran into his album in the new releases section on Qobuz. He reminds me of a contemporary version of Billy Joel or Elton John. Piano rock is a good description for it and he keeps it fun and energetic. I really dug it and it sounded great on the FF3s too. The piano driven sound along with McKenzie's vocals let the FF3s show off their ability to maintain a clean, layered, and separated mid range that I think is an underrated or at least overlooked part of their greatness.

Also, Marcus Kings new album Young Blood feature some great blues rock with plenty of gritty vocals and crunchy distorted guitar riffs that make for some brilliant listening on the FF3s, too.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Well, the upside of getting the "naked" box is that you get the nice carry case (as seen in the picture). I really like the finished box, but that one didn't come with a carry case.
> 
> I ended up using my box for all my portable interconnects/adapters, which has come in real handy thus far.



I already have my watch chest right next to my listening station that holds all of that stuff so I probably would have ended up keeping that box in the closet despite how nice it looks. I have used the pocketable carrying case a couple times already though. I didn't realize the version with the nice box didn't have the case. Now that I know that, I'm actually glad that I got the coffin box version because, in the end, the carrying case it much more useful to me.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I already have my watch chest right next to my listening station that holds all of that stuff so I probably would have ended up keeping that box in the closet despite how nice it looks. I have used the pocketable carrying case a couple times already though. I didn't realize the version with the nice box didn't have the case. Now that I know that, I'm actually glad that I got the coffin box version because, in the end, the carrying case it much more useful to me.


Those were ultimately my thoughts also. The only other difference that I have noticed is that the version with the nice box, but without the carry-case also comes with a leather(ette??) cable tie (as seen on @WoodyLuvr's pictures of his), which I miss for looks but not functionality.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Those were ultimately my thoughts also. The only other difference that I have noticed is that the version with the nice box, but without the carry-case also comes with a leather(ette??) cable tie (as seen on @WoodyLuvr's pictures of his), which I miss for looks but not functionality.



I actually have a bunch of black, blue, and red silicone cable ties that my neice found somewhere on AliExpress or Taobao I think that I use. If you're interested I can see if she can point me to where she purchased them.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I actually have a bunch of black, blue, and red silicone cable ties that my neice found somewhere on AliExpress or Taobao I think that I use. If you're interested I can see if she can point me to where she purchased them.


I also have a bunch myself but thank you very much. I was just pointing out the (other) differences I have noticed, for future buyers and in case it makes any difference...


----------



## christianfps

JAnonymous5150 said:


> If no one answers you beforehand, I can take a listen when I get home to my FF3s this afternoon/evening. I didn't bring them with me this morning unfortunately.


Was using the crisp foams at that time but when I switched to bass foams it made the directionality clearer for me.


drewbadour said:


> I tried balanced foams crisp foams first and found it a bit wonky in the lower mids and midbass regions but switching to bass foams cleared thay up altogether!


Kinda similar to this I guess. Amazing how sensitive it is to foam. Haha!


----------



## waynes world

tgx78 said:


> Tuning is being finalized.
> 
> Model name: Panorama Ridge
> Driver: Planar magnetic
> Cable termination: 4.4mm



Sorry for the late post (been on holidays, and I'm trying to get caught up in the thread).

Anyway, those looks very cool - I hope they work out! And as usual, you come up with excellent names for your buds (Panorama Ridge is one of my favorite hikes).



JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay, so I ended up listening to a bunch of Hans Zimmer tracks because I ended up getting quite lost in music so to how well the FF3s fit it. I know I keep mentioning the powerful dynamics and the huge, authoritative presentation of the FF3s. It's probably becoming a little annoying at this point, but it's 100% relevant to my experience listening to Hans Zimmers pieces.
> 
> As I'm sure you're aware, Zimmer likes to use dynamic contrasts, crescendo, diminuendo, ect to bring emotion into a given piece. His music will often start off at a relatively low volume and then build and swell, the instruments becoming louder and louder, and the music they're playing often becoming more intricate, as it builds to a peak. The FF3s infuse these surges with a nearly physical power that really draws you in more and more as the volume, urgency, and emotion increases and you find yourself enraptured, looking for the peak, actively wondering where the piece will reach it's crisis.
> 
> ...



I've been trying to ignore all of this FF3 praise, but it's posts like yours which pretty much squash any resolve I might have lol


----------



## mt877

More praise for the Fiio FF3. @Dsnuts FF3 Review.


----------



## Ronion (Aug 28, 2022)

christianfps said:


> Was using the crisp foams at that time but when I switched to bass foams it made the directionality clearer for me.
> 
> Kinda similar to this I guess. Amazing how sensitive it is to foam. Haha!


I would definitely give the foams a few days of wear before deciding on one.  They get bassier as they are used for a while.





Same Bud 10 days ago:


----------



## tendou

assassin10000 said:


> I did too with earpod/airpod shaped earbuds & tws.
> 
> If you do the 'donut' version pictured below, you may not need as much eq.
> 
> ...





samandhi said:


> You could always just get a set of buds that have MMCX and then use something like the FiiO UTWS5; earbuds WITH BT....



thanks guys! the samsung buds looks very interesting too. Using bluetooth adapter would increase the footprint too much for me and it becomes no longer pocketable. I usually use them for audiobooks, youtube speech or podcast only and not for music so don't really need high quality sounds but compactness (including case) is a must. Though maybe will change my mind in the future. who knows. lol


----------



## fooltoque

mt877 said:


> Smabat M4 TWS module (release Oct. 2022):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That looks really cool. I hope we can see more of this kind of stuff.


----------



## mt877 (Aug 28, 2022)

fooltoque said:


> That looks really cool. I hope we can see more of this kind of stuff.


Smabat has been the only company that has created past and current modular earbud systems (AFAIK). Modular earbuds have been an ignored niche, so props to Smabat for being innovative on this front. Their current M4 lineup is their best design so far. Their past designs either required soldering the swapped driver or had a clunky connector. While the old system worked, it's also prone to damage. The M4 design is downright elegant. All drivers screw on with a 1.5 revolution twist on driver design. They also offer a full range BA IEM module for the M4. Bluetooth adapter is in development for release approx. Oct/22. It will only offer SBC and AAC codecs, but for the most part those codecs should provide good enough sound quality and compatibility with many phones, DAPs, desktops, laptops and tablets with built-in bluetooth or use of USB BT dongles, etc.

Edit: From the BT audio format spec I saw, I think the BT modules might have built-in microphones as well. It's purely speculation on my part, but their specs show mSBC codec which is used for voice communications. See pic below.






My crowdfunding pre-order for the M4 is finally in process, just don't know when it will arrive.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 28, 2022)

christianfps said:


> Hi guys quick inquiry can you listen to Sun and Moon by Anees and tell me where the guitar sound is coming from? I don't know if my ears are decieving or I'm not hearing it right but it feels like it's on the back-right like behind your head 😮. Listening it from my FF3.



Sun And Moon sounds lush and full and the beat gets you bobbin' and dancin'! I drummed for like 10 hours today and despite being exhausted the FF3s and this track got me groovin' when I put it on when I got home just now. Thanks for pointing out a great new song to me!


----------



## o0genesis0o

mt877 said:


> Smabat has been the only company that has created past and current modular earbud systems (AFAIK). Modular earbuds have been an ignored niche, so props to Smabat for being innovative on this front. Their current M4 lineup is their best design so far. Their past designs either required soldering the swapped driver or had a clunky connector. While the old system worked, it's also prone to damage. The M4 design is downright elegant. All drivers screw on with a 1.5 revolution twist on driver design. They also offer a full range BA IEM module for the M4. Bluetooth adapter is in development for release approx. Oct/22. It will only offer SBC and AAC codecs, but for the most part those codecs should provide good enough sound quality and compatibility with many phones, DAPs, desktops, laptops and tablets with built-in bluetooth or use of USB BT dongles, etc.
> 
> My crowdfunding pre-order for the M4 is finally in process, just don't know when it will arrive.



Mad respect for Smabat to stick with earbuds form factor and the modular concept. I have always wanted to try their Proto IEMs. Maybe I’ll wait for your impressions before grabbing an M4 from them.


----------



## mt877

o0genesis0o said:


> Mad respect for Smabat to stick with earbuds form factor and the modular concept. I have always wanted to try their Proto IEMs. Maybe I’ll wait for your impressions before grabbing an M4 from them.


There's already been a small review within the last 10 to 15 pages of this thread and the sound quality impression was looking good. From what I remember, it was mentioned that the pinna gain was a little reduced as compared to Smabat's previous efforts. The damping kit should provide additional sound tuning as well.


----------



## qua2k

FF3, any reason why only the black version is available on Amazon? Anywhere to get the silver for US? Trying to decide on whichto get. Based on all positive, thinking the 3 might suit me better than the 5. I am just not a fan of mmcx.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 29, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I already have my watch chest right next to my listening station that holds all of that stuff so I probably would have ended up keeping that box in the closet despite how nice it looks. I have used the pocketable carrying case a couple times already though. I didn't realize the version with the nice box didn't have the case. Now that I know that, I'm actually glad that I got the coffin box version because, in the end, the carrying case it much more useful to me.


Another really cool pic would be of your Aiwa HP-V99 and FiiO FF3 sitting next to each other to illustrate how far we have come in 35 years!!! Might as well throw in your Ucotech ES-P1 as well as they are simply too cool looking to not include in a picture (there is a reason why they sit on WoodyLuvr's All-Time Top Twenty Flathead Earbuds by Aesthetics Only list)!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 29, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I already have my watch chest right next to my listening station that holds all of that stuff so I probably would have ended up keeping that box in the closet despite how nice it looks. I have used the pocketable carrying case a couple times already though. I didn't realize the version with the nice box didn't have the case. Now that I know that, I'm actually glad that I got the coffin box version because, in the end, the carrying case it much more useful to me.





samandhi said:


> Those were ultimately my thoughts also. The only other difference that I have noticed is that the version with the nice box, but without the carry-case also comes with a leather(ette??) cable tie (as seen on @WoodyLuvr's pictures of his), which I miss for looks but not functionality.


Now, I am jealous and want that carry case too! 

Actually, it is one of those plastic Velcro type cable organizers with an older Longyao logo on it. Wish it had been leather... though I immediately replaced it with an extra Blur leather cable organizer that Wong's wife kindly made me.


----------



## samandhi

qua2k said:


> FF3, any reason why only the black version is available on Amazon? Anywhere to get the silver for US? Trying to decide on whichto get. Based on all positive, thinking the 3 might suit me better than the 5. I am just not a fan of mmcx.


I got mine from AE because they were cheaper, and because at that time they didn't have them available on Amazon. And, believe it or not they actually got to me in 11 days (using the standard free shipping). YMMV 


WoodyLuvr said:


> Another really cool pic would be of your Aiwa HP-V99 and FiiO FF3 sitting next to each other to illustrate how far we have come in 35 years!!! Might as well throw in your Ucotech ES-P1 as well as they are simply too cool looking to not include in a picture (there is a reason why they sit on WoodyLuvr's All-Time Top Twenty Flathead Earbuds by Aesthetics Only list)!


I would also like to see a picture with your piano with all your newly acquired stuff (did you ever post one of your piano???).

Yeah, I tried for about a month to get those Ucotechs (if you remember that fiasco), but apparently it wasn't in the stars for me, so I gave up; I actually ordered the Chaconne instead, which I wouldn't have done otherwise. Fate???


WoodyLuvr said:


> Now, I am jealous and want that carry case too!
> 
> Actually, it is one of those plastic Velcro type cable organizers with an older Longyao logo on it. Wish it had been leather... though I immediately replaced it with an extra Blur leather cable organizer that Wong's wife kindly made me.


Now, this I don't really blame you for because it is a nice (if used in a lot of other types of head gear) case. It is leatherette skinned with a nice texture to it (dragon scale theme???), and semi-hard shell with a very nice zipper and plush interior. But it sounds like you have something unique in its place (which is pretty special IMO).

It is stamped with a picture of a Chinese dragon (logo) with the tail being (what I assume is) the Yinman "Y", and some writing I cannot read (I don't read Chinese). Funny thing is that my phone's camera translates it to "Dragon Magazine". LOL



Spoiler


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 29, 2022)

samandhi said:


> I got mine from AE because they were cheaper, and because at that time they didn't have them available on Amazon. And, believe it or not they actually got to me in 11 days (using the standard free shipping). YMMV
> 
> I would also like to see a picture with your piano with all your newly acquired stuff (did you ever post one of your piano???).
> 
> ...


So on the case it says *龍謡* <<long yao>> which means "dragon".  These are the older characters used by Longyao-Yinman = *龍謠音曼*

Yep, the dragon's tail in the logo is indeed representative of the initial "y" for the name "Yinman"




The company name *龙谣音曼* is now using slightly different (newer) characters *龙谣* instead which phonetically is spoken exactly the same way, as <<long yao>>, and they too translate as "dragon" but also can mean "dragon song" or "dragon ballad". More fitting don't you think?!


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> So on the case it says *龍謡* <<long yao>> which means "dragon".  These are the older characters used by Longyao-Yinman = *龍謠音曼*
> 
> Yep, the dragon's tail in the logo is indeed representative of the initial "y" for the name "Yinman"
> 
> ...


Ahh, thanks for clearing that up for me good sir! I knew it couldn't be "dragon magazine" like the poor translator was insisting to me... LOL

But, I DO think that is rather fitting that it changed to what it is now.


----------



## yaps66

WoodyLuvr said:


> So on the case it says *龍謡* <<long yao>> which means "dragon".  These are the older characters used by Longyao-Yinman = *龍謠音曼*
> 
> Yep, the dragon's tail in the logo is indeed representative of the initial "y" for the name "Yinman"
> 
> ...


If I am not wrong, *龍謡 *is the traditional chinese writing and *龙谣* is simplified chinese writing.  Both are essentially the same word or is there a nuance I am missing here?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

yaps66 said:


> If I am not wrong, *龍謡 *is the traditional chinese writing and *龙谣* is simplified chinese writing.  Both are essentially the same word or is there a nuance I am missing here?


Yes, same word and meaning just one is older than the other as you have stated.


----------



## samandhi (Aug 29, 2022)

yaps66 said:


> If I am not wrong, *龍謡 *is the traditional chinese writing and *龙谣* is simplified chinese writing.  Both are essentially the same word or is there a nuance I am missing here?


While I don't really know what I am talking about, it does indeed LOOK to be a simplified version (if the meaning is the same). The fourth and second character being (basically) the same on both versions. 

Edit: But it could all be "runes" for all I know...


----------



## yaps66

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, same word and meaning just one is older than the other as you have stated.





samandhi said:


> While I don't really know what I am talking about, it does indeed LOOK to be a simplified version (if the meaning is the same). The fourth and second character being (basically) the same on both versions.
> 
> Edit: But it could all be "runes" for all I know...


Regardless. Sick buds!


----------



## ian91

SBranson said:


> More TGXEar content.. and contentment
> 
> Until recently I have preferred the Tantalus to the Serratus.  But…. My Serratus was a prototype, I guess on of the first ones… it was in 3.5mm, had a different shell and cable.  I now have the production version and it is a marvel.  The bass is insane.  So deep but resolved as well.  The soundstage has great depth and once again, I’m shocked at how an earbud could create such an illusion of space and stage.  I think based on the clean sound and the fullness that this clean extended bass brings, I can say that it has supplanted the Tantalus as my favourite for most genres.
> The Tantalus does have a slightly more natural timbre for solo instruments or small groups like a lot of my baroque music or perhaps some quieter piano pieces or even some female vocal/solo guitar.  In those cases I might go with the Tantalus but for my ambient type music or classical crossover music with extended bass and more layered instrumentation, the Serratus is amazing.  The production version seems to have all the clean separation of the prototype but with a fuller midrange tone and an even better bass response.  I think the fuller, more natural timbre, actually, is everywhere which is why the bass is so improved.
> I have this playing right now and it’s sounding great..  Thanks @tgx78




Happy to hear you've got the retail version and it's proving better than your prototype!  

Serratus is just so lush to my ears, I find it very hard to fault. If you still think Tantalus has better timbre, I might need to save for that too!


----------



## samandhi

yaps66 said:


> Regardless. Sick buds!


My thoughts exactly. I decided to try the balanced foams (from the FF3) on them, and they DO seem to have a bit deeper bass, but that could be placebo on my part.


----------



## silverszi

I haven't been here since I touched riku's discord server.
I've ordered all of my components though I hope they all get here at some point


----------



## yaps66 (Aug 29, 2022)

samandhi said:


> My thoughts exactly. I decided to try the balanced foams (from the FF3) on them, and they DO seem to have a bit deeper bass, but that could be placebo on my part.


I am wondering.  Are the foams that come with the EM5 similar to the FF3?


----------



## christianfps

Ronion said:


> I would definitely give the foams a few days of wear before deciding on one. They get bassier as they are used for a while.


I was using the crisp foams and I find that every session with them, the opening is in a different place. Maybe that's why it's affecting some aspects of the sound and positioning of stuff. When I changed to the bass ones, fixed everything for me and digging the tuning. After almost a week with the FF3s, I think my ears have finally adjusted with the earbud shapes and can endure longer sessions now and loving the FF3s even more!



JAnonymous5150 said:


> Sun And Moon sounds lush and full and the beat gets you bobbin' and dancin'! I drummed for like 10 hours today and despite being exhausted the FF3s and this track got me groovin' when I put it on when I got home just now. Thanks for pointing out a great new song to me


There was a weird thing that was happening with me and the crisp foams earlier when listening to it. The opening riff of the guitar which was coming from the right sounded more like it was behind my head. Then again maybe as I mentioned above maybe the opening of the donuts was changing positions when I was re-adjusting it from time to time and affecting the imaging. When I changed to the bass foams I can clearly hear it at the right now. Glad you liked the song! Was just freaked out when I was doing some A/B testing with the KZ EDX Pro of my girlfriend's and the FF3s.


----------



## mt877

yaps66 said:


> I am wondering.  Are the foams that come with the EM5 similar to the FF3?


Good catch. From what I can tell, yes they are. Maybe some batch to batch variance, but the same in function.


----------



## christianfps

So far no leaks about the FF5s, I think the FH7S is the one gonna be featured by end of August. So maybe FF5 for end of September?


----------



## yaps66

mt877 said:


> Good catch. From what I can tell, yes they are. Maybe some batch to batch variance, but the same in function.


Interesting how there was not as much discussed about them as they are now with the FF5!


----------



## samandhi

yaps66 said:


> Interesting how there was not as much discussed about them as they are now with the FF5!


IIRC the EM5 wasn't near as popular (on here anyhow). That might be it?!


----------



## yaps66

samandhi said:


> IIRC the EM5 wasn't near as popular (on here anyhow). That might be it?!


You’re probably right! Can’t wait for my FF3 to land to compare the two!


----------



## qua2k

RikuBuds' Berserker 2 has arrived. Very positive so far, can see these being a good all rounder. Burn burn burn!


----------



## drewbadour (Sep 3, 2022)

Saber, Lancer, Berserker, and Rider have landed! Some quick impressions:

*Saber 1* - Balanced and extremely versatile with good slam and punch for a bit of fun.
*Lancer 1* - Very clear and resolving - best of the pack for instrumental and classical music.
*Berserker 1* - Basically everything everyone else has said is true here, not much else I can add - bass on these is phenomenal and yet the mids and treble are still good! Bass can sometimes can be a bit too much for orchestral, chamber, or jazz because the balance between the instruments can be skewed towards the lower registers in a way which isn't bad per se, just not accurate to what you'd hear live in a concert hall or at a live jazz performance.
*Rider 1* - similar to Saber in being a more balanced set but a different flavor. Less slam than Saber but more presence in the midbass and mids. Slightly warmer than Saber with a slightly thicker note weight. Really amazing vocals and pretty surprising stage.

All 4 of these are absolutely phenomenal! Kudos to Riku for tuning these so well!


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> IIRC the EM5 wasn't near as popular (on here anyhow). That might be it?!


The FF3 is the first bud that has me really excited about a big name commercial earbud since I started DIYing.  Once I realized how easy it was to DIY really well… well, it’s going to take something unique and special from the commercial realm to get me excited.  The FF3 is that.  The FF5 has a lot to live up to.  Even at that, my 130Be is tuned to sound very similar to the FF3.  It has a little less bass and a little more treble… but it’s very similar.  It lighter, has a more easily managed cable and a microphone for calling.  Hard to beat for $20.  The FF3 is sexier, but the 130Be is less likely to be stolen.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

WoodyLuvr said:


> Another really cool pic would be of your Aiwa HP-V99 and FiiO FF3 sitting next to each other to illustrate how far we have come in 35 years!!! Might as well throw in your Ucotech ES-P1 as well as they are simply too cool looking to not include in a picture (there is a reason why they sit on WoodyLuvr's All-Time Top Twenty Flathead Earbuds by Aesthetics Only list)!



I know this isn't tech support, but when I try to open my phone's camera to take pics it says camera busy and tells me to try again but it doesn't work. Today was a long day already and if you guys can't help me I'm gonna have to deal with Moto's tech support lol! I have a Moto One 5G Ace if that makes a difference. I rarely take pictures, but I know the camera was working after the latest Android update I got a few weeks back because it worked when I took pics of some buds I sold that didn't make the cut. Any ideas?

See attached screenshot of the camera busy pop-up.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I know this isn't tech support, but when I try to open my phone's camera to take pics it says camera busy and tells me to try again but it doesn't work. Today was a long day already and if you guys can't help me I'm gonna have to deal with Moto's tech support lol! I have a Moto One 5G Ace if that makes a difference. I rarely take pictures, but I know the camera was working after the latest Android update I got a few weeks back because it worked when I took pics of some buds I sold that didn't make the cut. Any ideas?
> 
> See attached screenshot of the camera busy pop-up.


There are an assortment of issues that might cause this (I don't think it is phone specific, but is an android thing). Try looking into the issues/solutions mentioned here.


----------



## DBaldock9

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I know this isn't tech support, but when I try to open my phone's camera to take pics it says camera busy and tells me to try again but it doesn't work. Today was a long day already and if you guys can't help me I'm gonna have to deal with Moto's tech support lol! I have a Moto One 5G Ace if that makes a difference. I rarely take pictures, but I know the camera was working after the latest Android update I got a few weeks back because it worked when I took pics of some buds I sold that didn't make the cut. Any ideas?
> 
> See attached screenshot of the camera busy pop-up.



If you go into Settings -> Apps and select the Camera app - can you Force-Stop it, and then clear its Cache?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> There are an assortment of issues that might cause this (I don't think it is phone specific, but is an android thing). Try looking into the issues/solutions mentioned here.



Thanks! I'll give it a shot.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

DBaldock9 said:


> If you go into Settings -> Apps and select the Camera app - can you Force-Stop it, and then clear its Cache?



This was the second thing I tried after just doing the restart that the pop-up suggests. No dice. Thanks for the suggestion though.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> This was the second thing I tried after just doing the restart that the pop-up suggests. No dice. Thanks for the suggestion though.


You might also consider before clearing cache, also clearing data (I think this was also one of the "solutions" on that link I sent you).


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> You might also consider before clearing cache, also clearing data (I think this was also one of the "solutions" on that link I sent you).



I am doing the list of solutions from the link you sent as we speak.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I am doing the list of solutions from the link you sent as we speak.


When doing a search for this, it seems as though Motorola phones HAVE indeed popped up more times than most others, so I wonder if it is something about their proprietary software integration that reacts (incorrectly) to android updates or the like?!


----------



## Ronion

Sorry brother.  I’ve literally never had a noniPhone smartphone…. That’s a sweet phone though.  Once I downloaded “VST” pianos on the iPhone, I was in too deep to switch (in my mind).  Motos almost got me though.


----------



## ValSuki

Noticed the Cypherus Audio website is down! And the owner updated his FB profile picture...after years...revamp potentially?


----------



## jeejack

Ronion said:


> The FF3 is the first bud that has me really excited about a big name commercial earbud since I started DIYing.  Once I realized how easy it was to DIY really well… well, it’s going to take something unique and special from the commercial realm to get me excited.  The FF3 is that.  The FF5 has a lot to live up to.  Even at that, my 130Be is tuned to sound very similar to the FF3.  It has a little less bass and a little more treble… but it’s very similar.  It lighter, has a more easily managed cable and a microphone for calling.  Hard to beat for $20.  The FF3 is sexier, but the 130Be is less likely to be stolen.


Doc, have you try rivet mod?


----------



## Ronion (Aug 30, 2022)

jeejack said:


> Doc, have you try rivet mod?


Not yet…. I’m thinking about ordering another one to really experiment with.  I have no extra shells at the moment and if I don’t like it, I can’t just go back.  The balance is so good.  Best tonal balance I have on any headphone and it certainly competes with my home theater barring the 22hz bass response and 40kHz treble that likely annoys my dog.   My home theater has thousands of dollars put into it with extreme OCD-like care placed on every decision, position and calibration.  The fact that I’m speaking about a $20 bud that took less than an hour of my life in total to build in the same light and regard is a bit mind boggling.  The FF3 is not that far away tonally with the right foams and has a little better soundstage.  The character of its bass response and midrange has a unique quality to it that makes it a worthy member to the stable.  I really couldn’t pick one of these over the other, but if I only had $20, I wouldn’t feel like I was missing out.  I know there’s likely more performance in this driver that hasn’t been tapped.  It will come in version 2.0 as long as I can maintain the treble balance, but it will be a while.


----------



## Eduardiofilo

Setmagic said:


> This is 32 ohm MYLAR foil (PET) driver without any coating.
> 
> Its a brand new tunning from DIY Workroom group. As @FranQL said it's very vivid and deep bass same time.


Do you have a link?


----------



## Setmagic

Eduardiofilo said:


> Do you have a link?


Its my DIY projekt i dont have link.


----------



## Eduardiofilo

Setmagic said:


> Its my DIY projekt i dont have link


Sorry, i thought you had a link of the driver


----------



## samandhi

I got my new buds from @FranQL. WOW! I have to say that both @Ronion and @FranQL were right. The Smabat 150Ti has some serious potential. @ FranQL has outdone himself on these. The tuning is similar to the FQL Blackhole Redux (with some positive tweaks), but the technicalities and acoustics are on a whole new level IMHO. I was just listening to them, and I heard a sound from the left side and because the dynamics are so good, and the staging is SO wide, I thought it was actually coming from outside my house. I felt pretty stupid when I actually got up to go look... LOL



Spoiler: FQL Grand Finale


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> When doing a search for this, it seems as though Motorola phones HAVE indeed popped up more times than most others, so I wonder if it is something about their proprietary software integration that reacts (incorrectly) to android updates or the like?!



If it is, they don't seem to know how to fix it  very easily. I am working with their chat support right now.

BTW, Fiio got back to me about the foams. They aren't planning on selling them, but I was given an email address for a parts and repairs desk to see if I can arrange to have some shipped to me. I will keep you guys posted as to what happens.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> If it is, they don't seem to know how to fix it  very easily. I am working with their chat support right now.
> 
> BTW, Fiio got back to me about the foams. They aren't planning on selling them, but I was given an email address for a parts and repairs desk to see if I can arrange to have some shipped to me. I will keep you guys posted as to what happens.


Maybe that is why I found so many articles when doing a search (all the way back to 2017 or so). They have never really admitted it as being an issue, let alone fixed it. 

Sounds great, thanks!


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 30, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Maybe that is why I found so many articles when doing a search (all the way back to 2017 or so). They have never really admitted it as being an issue, let alone fixed it.
> 
> Sounds great, thanks!



The tech support dude I'm chatting with says he has helped several people with it, but he sure doesn't seem to be good at it lol!

To get back on topic, those of you with the FF3s really need to listen to Polyphia's new album New Levels New Devils. It's a really cool instrumental work that pushes all the strengths of the FF3s and sounds great. I would encourage anyone to listen to it regardless of FF3 ownership, but I was impressed with how they handled it in particular. Let me know what you guys think.

Edit: As pointed out below, this album isn't new. I can be a bit of a dunce sometimes...lol


----------



## BCool

Does anyone know of a bud that uses bone conduction? Seems like it might be a good way to give a the feeling of sub-bass.

If not then I might try and DIY one at some point with this driver.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

BCool said:


> Does anyone know of a bud that uses bone conduction? Seems like it might be a good way to give a the feeling of sub-bass.
> 
> If not then I might try and DIY one at some point with this driver.



Earbuds don't maintian contact with the areas/bones that I have seen bone conduction sets using. As a matter of fact, they don't touch anything but cartilage.

Edit: I'd be interested to see how you go about combining bone conduction with earbuds, though.


----------



## BCool

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Earbuds don't maintian contact with the areas/bones that I have seen bone conduction sets using. As a matter of fact, they don't touch anything but cartilage.
> 
> Edit: I'd be interested to see how you go about combining bone conduction with earbuds, though.


True, but IEMs don't usually make contact with bony areas either and there have been a few recently that have implemented them (though it's debateable as to whether or not they're effective).
I'd have to use some trial and error as the smallest driver I could find is Ø15mm which doesn't leave much room for a second driver to handle the actual sound. Maybe a BA?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

BCool said:


> True, but IEMs don't usually make contact with bony areas either and there have been a few recently that have implemented them (though it's debateable as to whether or not they're effective).
> I'd have to use some trial and error as the smallest driver I could find is Ø15mm which doesn't leave much room for a second driver to handle the actual sound. Maybe a BA?



I wasn't saying it's not possible. I don't know if it is or not. I think you should go for it because AFAIK there aren't any bone conduction transducers combined with a tradition flathead form. I assume you're talking about making a bone conduction and dynamic driver earbud hybrid, right? The basic idea being that the earbud's dynamic driver would be full range with the bone conduction unit adding to low end rumble and bass presence/perception. 

That's what I was imagining based off what you said and it sounds like a cool idea if you can get it to work without compromising on sound quality. The pure bone conduction sets sound pretty low fi. I haven't tried the IEMs yet, but I would imagine that using the bone conduction to suppliment low end perception rather than to replace a regular full range driver would be much better sounding. Definitely keep me/us posted if you do this.


----------



## waynes world (Aug 30, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> To get back on topic, those of you with the FF3s really need to listen to Polyphia's new album New Levels New Devils. It's a really cool instrumental work that pushes all the strengths of the FF3s and sounds great. I would encourage anyone to listen to it regardless of FF3 ownership, but I was impressed with how they handled it in particular. Let me know what you guys think.



I don't have the FF3's yet, so I'm listening with the Nighthawks instead. I'm trying to get some work done, but I can't - this darned album is too good and requires too much attention! Good rec, thanks.

Edit: btw I see that this is from 2018, and that their most recent album is "Remember That You Will Die" (I'm not sure if it's out yet).


----------



## numon (Aug 30, 2022)

from list owned earbud you gave ,you have viridis
 so  can you  make mojito and viridis comperation  in soundstage wideness,detail,resolutıon, seperation...?





numon said:


> thanks   for detailed answer





JAnonymous5150 said:


> The Maria IIs are brighter for sure, though still well balanced. They have a significantly larger soundstage in both width and depth than the Mojitos, with the soundstage having more width than depth. The Maria IIs have significantly more detail than the Mojitos. Perhaps most importantly, the Maria IIs have this ability to portray music with this delicate, etheral quality that makes certain genres come across in a very unique and special way, but for me they are a specialist earbud for sure. When I try to use them for general listening they are far too picky about which tracks they make sound amazing versus which tracks sound terrible...more than any othet earbud I have ever heard. It's worth keeping them around for that unique quality to their presentation though because when you listen to the music that they jive with it's a truly special experience.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

waynes world said:


> I don't have the FF3's yet, so I'm listening with the Nighthawks instead. I'm trying to get some work done, but I can't - this darned album is too good and requires too much attention! Good rec, thanks.
> 
> Edit: btw I see that this is from 2018, and that their most recent album is "Remember That You Will Die" (I'm not sure if it's out yet).



I didn't mean to put new. I was posting about a different album in another thread and I think I carried it over lol! I should have put that it's my favorite Polyphia album. I'm glad you like it though! It sounds great on pretty much any good transducer and it's got so much going on musically that it's just a real treat on something with good dynamic range and capable drivers.

When you get the FF3s listen to it again and let me know what you think. They have this massive, authoritative presentation that expresses each instrument separately with such dexterity that it just sounds effortlessly powerful and I was diggin' it. That's why I specifically recommended checking it out with the FF3s.

When there's great music happening work can wait! The album isn't that long...😂🤘


----------



## JAnonymous5150

numon said:


> from list owned earbud you gave ,you have viridis
> so  can you  make mojito and viridis comperation  in soundstage wideness,detail,resolutıon, seperation...?



Sure can though it will have to be from memory because I went ahead and sold the mojitos. The Viridis have the Mojitos beat on soundstage size and separation for sure. The soundstage of the Viridis is possibly the widest I have heard on any earbud which helps with separation which is another strong suit. @WoodyLuvr calls the Viridis the King of Soundstage. As for depth of the stage, I think the Viridis is slightly larger there as well. The Mojito is no slouch though and it has relatively large soundstage as well.

For detail retrieval and resolution I would call it a toss up between the two. Both the Viridis and the Mojitos provide a very well detailed presentation. Maybe the Viridis have a touch more in the way of micro dynamics in the top end, but conversely the Mojitos may have a touch more detail in the low mid section. On most tracks you'd be hard pressed to tell the resolving power of the two apart which is why I think it's safe to call it a draw.

I would like to add that the Virdis do the holographic, "outside your head" presentation as well or better than any earbud out there. When I was first listening to them, I found myself looking over my shoulder multiple times to see where a sound was coming from before realizing that it was in fact in the music I was listening too. It's not very often you run into an earbud that has that kind of holographic realism in its presentation.


----------



## samandhi

BCool said:


> Does anyone know of a bud that uses bone conduction? Seems like it might be a good way to give a the feeling of sub-bass.
> 
> If not then I might try and DIY one at some point with this driver.





JAnonymous5150 said:


> Earbuds don't maintian contact with the areas/bones that I have seen bone conduction sets using. As a matter of fact, they don't touch anything but cartilage.
> 
> Edit: I'd be interested to see how you go about combining bone conduction with earbuds, though.





BCool said:


> True, but IEMs don't usually make contact with bony areas either and there have been a few recently that have implemented them (though it's debateable as to whether or not they're effective).
> I'd have to use some trial and error as the smallest driver I could find is Ø15mm which doesn't leave much room for a second driver to handle the actual sound. Maybe a BA?


I hate to be the logic of this scenario, and I certainly don't want to stop any progress that could be made in this area. I would love to see this happen. 

Having said that it is not possible to have a true bone conduction IEM or earbud, unless you have another driver that contacts outside the ear (read, something like the jawbone or the like) because there are no bones on the outside of the ear for bone conductor drivers to contact. In fact, there are only 3 (tiny) bones in the ear at all, and they are in the middle ear, which means there isn't a way to contact these bones at all. 

This is also why when you look at the old school bone conduction headphones you will see they don't even go into the ear at all. But, using a piezoelectric driver (normally associated and/or mistaken for/with bone conduction) can also make sound waves due to vibration. The difference in the implementation is that you still need to hear it with your ears. All those IEMs that are calling their product "bone conduction" aren't technically lying because the driver used in it is what they make bone conduction sets out of. So, it IS a bone conduction driver, but the way they have implemented it is NOT.... It is a "gimmick" to get people to buy the product (IMO). 

There is a good test for this if you want to know how true or not their statements are. Put them between your teeth and press play. That's it! If you can't hear them, then you know it is not true bone conduction. I tested the Raptgo Hook-X this way because on some places I see piezoelectric driver, and others (including the box) it says bone conduction. Sadly, they are not. This doesn't stop them from sounding amazing (to my ears) though. 

Bone conduction headphones are SUPER cheap and easy to make (DIY). Just do a search and you will see just how easy they are. Basically, a motor, a jack for your source, and a rod (and some fiddling; not the kind with a bow). You can listen through your teeth.. 

Fun fact: Speaking of teeth, did you know that true bone conduction has been around for a really long time? Did you know that Beethoven was able to finish some works that normally he wouldn't have been able to by the use of bone conduction? A rod between his teeth allowed him to hear through the bone what the piano was doing (to a limited degree).  It wasn't until the 20's-40's that it was decided that bone conduction could be used in or as hearing aids because it allowed people to hear what they previously might not have heard otherwise (those with diminished hearing, not total deafness).


----------



## mt877 (Aug 30, 2022)

Just finished this easy build. PK1 two slot rear vent shell, 14.8mm 150Ω red film drivers, nice 3.5SE cable, factory tuning, couldn't be easier. Very engaging buds to say the least.


----------



## Eduardiofilo

Spending time with the boys
White Lotus (Hiegi Foams)
Monk Plus (Full Foams)
Monk Lite (Thin Foams)
DIY BG 150omh (Full Foams)


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Just finished this easy build. PK1 two slot rear vent shell, 14.8mm 150Ω red film drivers, nice 3.5SE cable, factory tuning, couldn't be easier. Very engaging buds to say the least.


Dang! I really love the looks of that cable.


----------



## baskingshark

samandhi said:


> I hate to be the logic of this scenario, and I certainly don't want to stop any progress that could be made in this area. I would love to see this happen.
> 
> Having said that it is not possible to have a true bone conduction IEM or earbud, unless you have another driver that contacts outside the ear (read, something like the jawbone or the like) because there are no bones on the outside of the ear for bone conductor drivers to contact. In fact, there are only 3 (tiny) bones in the ear at all, and they are in the middle ear, which means there isn't a way to contact these bones at all.
> 
> ...



Good info!

Though I've tried one or two pure bone conduction audio gear and the sound fidelity is not very good TBH.

Even those with added bone conduction tech (eg MEST MK2) that I tried, if you told me it used conventional tech versus bone conduction added, I genuinely would not be able to tell the difference that this was added.

I think in the audio arena at this current point in time, these bone conduction tech are still undergoing refinement and evolution, and ain't the finish article yet.


----------



## christianfps

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I would like to add that the Virdis do the holographic, "outside your head" presentation as well or better than any earbud out there. When I was first listening to them, I found myself looking over my shoulder multiple times to see where a sound was coming from before realizing that it was in fact in the music I was listening too. It's not very often you run into an earbud that has that kind of holographic realism in its presentation.


Viridis added to cart hahahaha sounds good for gaming!


----------



## o0genesis0o

christianfps said:


> Viridis added to cart hahahaha sounds good for gaming!



Btw, Tanchjim is releasing a retuned OLA called OLA bass. Any space in cart?


----------



## baskingshark

o0genesis0o said:


> Btw, Tanchjim is releasing a retuned OLA called OLA bass. Any space in cart?



The OLA is quite a technical IEM tuned to the HRTF curve, in fact it is has one of the better technicalities under $50 USD. 

Unfortunately, the fit is hit or miss, due to the too short nozzles and round shell. This causes discomfort, and bad fit also equates to bad seal which can affect bass response. Even when fitted well, the upper mids/treble are a bit too boosted and they give a nasal timbre and can be fatiguing.

Even if they did boost the bass to counteract the upper frequencies, I hope they have fixed the fitting/comfort. No point something sounding heavenly if you can't tolerate the fit for more than a few minutes.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Has anyone else here had a helluva time trying to get a good fit with the VE Sun Dice? So far I have spent more time fiddling with the fit than actually listening on the two occasions I have sat down with the intention of doing a demo session with them. I'm too worn out from drumming so much lately to have the patience to deal with it so I put them down for the second time in favor of listening with something else. From the little I have heard, the Sun Dice seem like they have some massive potential too.


----------



## o0genesis0o

baskingshark said:


> The OLA is quite a technical IEM tuned to the HRTF curve, in fact it is has one of the better technicalities under $50 USD.
> 
> Unfortunately, the fit is hit or miss, due to the too short nozzles and round shell. This causes discomfort, and bad fit also equates to bad seal which can affect bass response. Even when fitted well, the upper mids/treble are a bit too boosted and they give a nasal timbre and can be fatiguing.
> 
> Even if they did boost the bass to counteract the upper frequencies, I hope they have fixed the fitting/comfort. No point something sounding heavenly if you can't tolerate the fit for more than a few minutes.


I mentioned OLA because @christianfps and I know each other online due to OLA for FPS games. Personally, I don’t need much stuffs thanks to FF3.

My soldering irons, filters, drivers, and shells has arrived at the local post office as well. If things go well, I wouldn’t need to buy commercial IEMs and buds for a while


----------



## o0genesis0o

Fiio replied to me that they have no news to share about FF5 yet, but they hope to release it before the end of the year. Maybe we have scared them


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Dang! I really love the looks of that cable.


I have a couple different cables, but those were the only ones that would fit through the smallish cable pass-through in the shell. It's a nice cable and very cheap at $1.83 per cable. See the shopping list if you want to roll your own.



Spoiler: Build your own DIY Yuin PK1 shopping list



Original YUIN PK1 Red Film 150Ω speaker unit 2 pcs
DIY PK1 shell 3 pairs
3.5mm Jack Audio Wire Cord Cable


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> I have a couple different cables, but those were the only ones that would fit through the smallish cable pass-through in the shell. It's a nice cable and very cheap at $1.83 per cable. See the shopping list if you want to roll your own.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What amp/dac/source do you generally use or prefer with the DIY pk1


----------



## christianfps

JAnonymous5150 said:


> To get back on topic, those of you with the FF3s really need to listen to Polyphia's new album New Levels New Devils. It's a really cool instrumental work that pushes all the strengths of the FF3s and sounds great. I would encourage anyone to listen to it regardless of FF3 ownership, but I was impressed with how they handled it in particular. Let me know what you guys think.


G.O.A.T was amazing with the FF3 so many sound cues caught me off guard and I actually thought it was coming from outside haha!


----------



## christianfps

o0genesis0o said:


> Btw, Tanchjim is releasing a retuned OLA called OLA bass. Any space in cart?


Hahahaha you're making me spend more and it ain't even Christmas yet! 🤣


baskingshark said:


> The OLA is quite a technical IEM tuned to the HRTF curve, in fact it is has one of the better technicalities under $50 USD.
> 
> Unfortunately, the fit is hit or miss, due to the too short nozzles and round shell. This causes discomfort, and bad fit also equates to bad seal which can affect bass response. Even when fitted well, the upper mids/treble are a bit too boosted and they give a nasal timbre and can be fatiguing.


OLA is quite amazing for FPS games exactly because of its tuning and fortunately the fit wasn't a concern for me. One thing I would've wanted was a small vent so it wasn't fatiguing in a long session.


o0genesis0o said:


> I mentioned OLA because @christianfps and I know each other online due to OLA for FPS games. Personally, I don’t need much stuffs thanks to FF3.


Pretty much what I'm feeling right now haha! Quite in love with the FF3 and it keeps getting better


----------



## mt877 (Aug 31, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> What amp/dac/source do you generally use or prefer with the DIY pk1


Sony NW-ZX507, not the most powerful, but wonderful warm Sony signature musicality. Shanling M3X, a bit more power than the ZX507 and is my neutral DAP. I like to stack the M3X with the Little Bear B4-X hybrid tube amp. I'm finding the DIY pk1 is having better synergy with warmer sources like the ZX507 and M3X / Little Bear stack. With M3X alone the treble is a little piercing. Will have to try different foams and see if that changes.

Edit: I've been chilling out listening to Keiko Matsui for the last couple of hours through these pk1 buds, really enjoying it.


----------



## Flognuts (Aug 31, 2022)

Just want to say I bought the FF3 yesterday.
I had no idea these even existed. I ordered the ER2-XR which kept getting delayed, so went in store to cancel and the guy asked if I've tried these.
Jeeeeez I been in this hobby for 15 years and this price to performance never existed before. Since when does $99US get you earbuds, that to my ears beat the likes of the HD600/HD650?
What's Fiio doing over there? My only experience with them in the past was a cheap portable amp E7 from 2010 and it sucked. My expectations of this company are totally misread now.

TLDR: The FF3 are a must buy for the price, can't wait to see what the FF5 are gonna be like.

What foam tips are you owners using with these, Bass or Neutral?


----------



## fooltoque

o0genesis0o said:


> Fiio replied to me that they have no news to share about FF5 yet, but they hope to release it before the end of the year. Maybe we have scared them


Wait, didn't they say September for FF5 release? Did that change?


----------



## o0genesis0o

fooltoque said:


> Wait, didn't they say September for FF5 release? Did that change?



I asked them after the launch event yesterday. That’s their response.


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> If it is, they don't seem to know how to fix it  very easily. I am working with their chat support right now.
> 
> BTW, Fiio got back to me about the foams. They aren't planning on selling them, but I was given an email address for a parts and repairs desk to see if I can arrange to have some shipped to me. I will keep you guys posted as to what happens.


We need a route to acquire more of these foams!  Let us know how it goes and thanks for reaching out to them.


samandhi said:


> I hate to be the logic of this scenario, and I certainly don't want to stop any progress that could be made in this area. I would love to see this happen.
> 
> Having said that it is not possible to have a true bone conduction IEM or earbud, unless you have another driver that contacts outside the ear (read, something like the jawbone or the like) because there are no bones on the outside of the ear for bone conductor drivers to contact. In fact, there are only 3 (tiny) bones in the ear at all, and they are in the middle ear, which means there isn't a way to contact these bones at all.
> 
> ...


Bone conduction in the medical sense is most efficient through the mastoid process which is right behind your ear.  It’s bone mound that’s part of what makes your ears stick out.  It can be used to diagnose outer ear hearing problems like wax build up, middle ear infections vs inner ear issues of the cochlea or auditory nerve.  The easiest way to try it for yourself is called the Rinne test.  If you have a tuning fork, you tap it to get it vibrating and place it on the mastoid process.  After you can no longer hear it, hold it in the air beside your ear.  It should last roughly the same time as it did on the mastoid process.  If you do it more quickly before the sound dies, it should sound louder through air conduction.  You can also test unilateral inner ear issues by placing a vibrant tuning fork on the middle of your head.  It would be quieter on the side with inner ear issues.  

so in the grand scheme of things, bone conduction is less important than air conduction with healthy hearing, but that doesn’t mean bone conduction isn’t important.  It certainly plays a role with external  auditory stimuli.  I’d think it would be worthy of our efforts.  That said, the devices used to really test this stuff thoroughly could not easily be added to an ear bud.  Maybe an IEM… Maybe 🤔 an earbud.  To get efficient coupling would probably require adhesives… if someone came up with something more elegant it would be more interesting.  Something like glasses or a headband could work.  Just thinking out loud.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> I asked them after the launch event yesterday. That’s their response.


We scared them.  They must be making it great!  Well, I hope anyway.


----------



## Setmagic

Ronion said:


> We need a route to acquire more of these foams!  Let us know how it goes and thanks for reaching out to them.
> 
> Bone conduction in the medical sense is most efficient through the mastoid process which is right behind your ear.  It’s bone mound that’s part of what makes your ears stick out.  It can be used to diagnose outer ear hearing problems like wax build up, middle ear infections vs inner ear issues of the cochlea or auditory nerve.  The easiest way to try it for yourself is called the Rinne test.  If you have a tuning fork, you tap it to get it vibrating and place it on the mastoid process.  After you can no longer hear it, hold it in the air beside your ear.  It should last roughly the same time as it did on the mastoid process.  If you do it more quickly before the sound dies, it should sound louder through air conduction.  You can also test unilateral inner ear issues by placing a vibrant tuning fork on the middle of your head.  It would be quieter on the side with inner ear issues.
> 
> so in the grand scheme of things, bone conduction is less important than air conduction with healthy hearing, but that doesn’t mean bone conduction isn’t important.  It certainly plays a role with external  auditory stimuli.  I’d think it would be worthy of our efforts.  That said, the devices used to really test this stuff thoroughly could not easily be added to an ear bud.  Maybe an IEM… Maybe 🤔 an earbud.  To get efficient coupling would probably require adhesives… if someone came up with something more elegant it would be more interesting.  Something like glasses or a headband could work.  Just thinking out loud.


Imagine sellers try to rise prices by +100$ using vibrating bone conduction in headphones.


----------



## Ronion

Setmagic said:


> Imagine sellers try to rise prices by +100$ using vibrating bone conduction in headphones.


In truth, it could be done efficiently through ear hooks….  This has me thinking now.  That last 10% could be worth a DIY effort.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

christianfps said:


> G.O.A.T was amazing with the FF3 so many sound cues caught me off guard and I actually thought it was coming from outside haha!



G.O.A.T. is a crazy track with any transducer with a decent soundstage, but the depth and separation of the FF3s allows them to cast some of those cues pretty far afield. It makes sounds come from everywhere rather than just side to side. This was one of the effects that made me recommend the listen so I'm glad it worked for you as well. The whole album has crazy things like that scattered throughout.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Flognuts said:


> Just want to say I bought the FF3 yesterday.
> I had no idea these even existed. I ordered the ER2-XR which kept getting delayed, so went in store to cancel and the guy asked if I've tried these.
> Jeeeeez I been in this hobby for 15 years and this price to performance never existed before. Since when does $99US get you earbuds, that to my ears beat the likes of the HD600/HD650?
> What's Fiio doing over there? My only experience with them in the past was a cheap portable amp E7 from 2010 and it sucked. My expectations of this company are totally misread now.
> ...



It's crazy though isn't it? I just rediscovered earbuds as a transducer medium a few months ago and I certainly picked a great time to dive back in. The FF3s are definitely a special pair of buds! 

P.S. If you read back through the thread over the last week or so some FF3 owners including myself have been discussing and recommending some great artists/albums/tracks to listen to on them. The recommendations have pointed me to a few gems for sure!


----------



## BCool

Ronion said:


> In truth, it could be done efficiently through ear hooks….  This has me thinking now.  That last 10% could be worth a DIY effort.


I found some shells with earhooks and possibly some smaller drivers

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2033188987.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003330426585.html


----------



## samandhi (Aug 31, 2022)

Ronion said:


> We need a route to acquire more of these foams!  Let us know how it goes and thanks for reaching out to them.
> 
> Bone conduction in the medical sense is most efficient through the mastoid process which is right behind your ear.  It’s bone mound that’s part of what makes your ears stick out.  It can be used to diagnose outer ear hearing problems like wax build up, middle ear infections vs inner ear issues of the cochlea or auditory nerve.  The easiest way to try it for yourself is called the Rinne test.  If you have a tuning fork, you tap it to get it vibrating and place it on the mastoid process.  After you can no longer hear it, hold it in the air beside your ear.  It should last roughly the same time as it did on the mastoid process.  If you do it more quickly before the sound dies, it should sound louder through air conduction.  You can also test unilateral inner ear issues by placing a vibrant tuning fork on the middle of your head.  It would be quieter on the side with inner ear issues.
> 
> so in the grand scheme of things, bone conduction is less important than air conduction with healthy hearing, but that doesn’t mean bone conduction isn’t important.  It certainly plays a role with external  auditory stimuli.  I’d think it would be worthy of our efforts.  That said, the devices used to really test this stuff thoroughly could not easily be added to an ear bud.  Maybe an IEM… Maybe 🤔 an earbud.  To get efficient coupling would probably require adhesives… if someone came up with something more elegant it would be more interesting.  Something like glasses or a headband could work.  Just thinking out loud.





Ronion said:


> In truth, it could be done efficiently through ear hooks….  This has me thinking now.  That last 10% could be worth a DIY effort.


It's funny that you mentioned using glasses as a medium for bone conduction. The OG Google Glasses did that very thing. There was nothing to go into the ears. It relied solely on bone conduction technology.

That was the word I was looking for that for some reason eluded me, "air conduction" (otherwise known as soundwaves via vibrations). Thanks for that and the rest of the information. I wasn't aware of the tuning fork test; well, I was, but I didn't know the process behind it.

As for "bone conduction" it was decided fairly recently that having outter ear, or even some middle ear issues (though with auditory nerve damage, bone conduction would not work just as much as normal sounds wouldn't) bone conduction COULD be used to bypass some of those hearing issue to restore hearing (to an extent). As mentioned, it is pretty lo-fi.




JAnonymous5150 said:


> G.O.A.T. is a crazy track with any transducer with a decent soundstage, but the depth and separation of the FF3s allows them to cast some of those cues pretty far afield. It makes sounds come from everywhere rather than just side to side. This was one of the effects that made me recommend the listen so I'm glad it worked for you as well. The whole album has crazy things like that scattered throughout.


Some of these cues are also what I look for to know how big a soundstage is on a set of buds. There are also some really good binaural recordings that should expose this capability (or not) in a set.

I used to have a Jawbone Big Jambox and while it wasn't the absolute best in sound quality, it did have a piece of (proprietary) tech inside of it that basically died when they went bankrupt, and subsequently out of business (AFAIK). It was called Live Audio, and it worked VERY well. How this worked is they borrowed the principle that makes noise cancelling work so well, anti-noise.

The box was made up of two speaker side by side. Microphones would record ambient sounds and generate a wall of anti-noise right in the center of the box, thereby (effectively) isolating each speaker from one another. The side effect of this process would make some sounds in songs sound like they came from a HUGE distance away from the box itself. It was really great! It was actually quite shocking when you heard these noises (guitars, voices, etc...).

To make this effect even more wide, there were a lot of groups back in the day that actually experimented with their recordings using a binaural setup; a recording head equipped with two microphones to simulate a sound's distance from each ear (Lynyard Skynyrd being one such group). Keep in mind these aren't as 3d spatial as some modern stuff, but they are left and right, WAY out there.

Anyhow one such recording that sounds great in earbuds and open back headphones (but even more on the Jawbone, though it is more of a super wide panning left and right rather than depth) is:



And maybe even more on this one:


And an example of some great binaural recordings (I have this album, but he has more):


----------



## samandhi (Aug 31, 2022)

BCool said:


> I found some shells with earhooks and possibly some smaller drivers
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2033188987.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003330426585.html


All you would have to do is either make the earhooks conductive relative to the driver, or run wires up them connected to a conductive plate/piece, or place the bone conduction driver on the earhooks... Seems like a super cool experiment! Keep us informed as to how it goes for you?!


----------



## syazwaned

My Yinman 600 ohms has arrived, in its coffin box. Very well made cable, cable is sturdy but not as hard as Blur cable. Out of the box impression, loving the warm tonality and wide staging. In live music, layering between musician and audience is perceived better than most earbuds I own before. In comparison to Zen 2.0, Zen 2.0 is warmer, and treble is less articulate. Yinman 600 ohms treble is here, and executed without being too forward.


This is only impression using dongle Apogee Groove. I need to spend some time to loan my friend Lyr3, my very own Questyle M15 and other desktop amps to see how significant its improvement when plugged with more power. Overrall happy with the purchase!

I also have ordered @RikudouGoku Grand Archer 1, and it has been completed. Need to wait for my paycheck and proceed with payment haha.


----------



## samandhi

syazwaned said:


> My Yinman 600 ohms has arrived, in its coffin box. Very well made cable, cable is sturdy but not as hard as Blur cable. Out of the box impression, loving the warm tonality and wide staging. In live music, layering between musician and audience is perceived better than most earbuds I own before. In comparison to Zen 2.0, Zen 2.0 is warmer, and treble is less articulate. Yinman 600 ohms treble is here, and executed without being too forward.
> 
> 
> This is only impression using dongle Apogee Groove. I need to spend some time to loan my friend Lyr3, my very own Questyle M15 and other desktop amps to see how significant its improvement when plugged with more power. Overrall happy with the purchase!
> ...


Fantastic! Congratz on your new shiny!


----------



## Setmagic

@FranQL BlackHole cach me in for a good


----------



## samandhi

Setmagic said:


> @FranQL BlackHole cach me in for a good


Congratz on your new shiny! 

I'll bet they sound fantastic?!


----------



## christianfps

JAnonymous5150 said:


> G.O.A.T. is a crazy track with any transducer with a decent soundstage, but the depth and separation of the FF3s allows them to cast some of those cues pretty far afield. It makes sounds come from everywhere rather than just side to side. This was one of the effects that made me recommend the listen so I'm glad it worked for you as well. The whole album has crazy things like that scattered throughout



One more crazy thing for me is not only that can I hear those certain cues from varying depths but I could also feel certain textures of sounds. Another reason to love the FF3s haha!


----------



## christianfps

Kind of off topic but can anyone educate me with the naming schemes of FIIO? For example the FF3.

F - FIIO
F- Transducer type
3- Hierarchy of model? (Higher number means more premium?)

Did I get some points at least? Haha!


----------



## o0genesis0o (Aug 31, 2022)

FF3 = Fiio Flathead 3
1 is the cheapest they can do. 3 is usually the lower-end model. 5 is midrange. 7 is usually high-end. 9 is usually TOTL (FA9 and FH9). However, they are going to launch FA11 this year, so the number is quite messy now. Number + "s" is revision (FH5s)

FD = Fiio Dynamic
FH = Fiio Hybrid
FA = Fiio balance Armature

Maybe they would have FP (Fiio Planar) one day? It seems everyone must build one IEM with those 14mm planar nowadays. I'm still waiting for Dunu Talos (Planar + BA).

Edit: maybe Moondrop's spring tips messed up the tuning of my Andromeda. It's so honky today that it's resolution and soundstage is actually inferior to my FF3. That's not right. Listening to this album at the moment.

Edit 2: J is "Jade Audio". The naming scheme is similar (e.g., JD3, JH3)


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> FF3 = Fiio Flathead 3
> 1 is the cheapest they can do. 3 is usually the lower-end model. 5 is midrange. 7 is usually high-end. 9 is usually TOTL (FA9 and FH9). However, they are going to launch FA11 this year, so the number is quite messy now. Number + "s" is revision (FH5s)
> 
> FD = Fiio Dynamic
> ...


Great information! How in the world did you learn that? Wait! Maybe I don't wanna' know?! lol


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> Great information! How in the world did you learn that? Wait! Maybe I don't wanna' know?! lol



I like looking and drooling at stuffs   

TBH, I don't have a strong desire to add more stuffs permanently to my collection, but I do wish to be able to experience more stuffs and share impressions with others. Thus, always a tricky balance between saving up for stuffs that I truely want (Monarch Mk2, M11plus, U12t) and buying stuffs for reviews. Most of the Fiio stuffs lie in the "I want to experience but not really need in my collection permanently". 

FF5 will go straight to my collection, though.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> I like looking and drooling at stuffs
> 
> TBH, I don't have a strong desire to add more stuffs permanently to my collection, but I do wish to be able to experience more stuffs and share impressions with others. Thus, always a tricky balance between saving up for stuffs that I truely want (Monarch Mk2, M11plus, U12t) and buying stuffs for reviews. Most of the Fiio stuffs lie in the "I want to experience but not really need in my collection permanently".
> 
> FF5 will go straight to my collection, though.


Selling body parts on the "black market" does count where this hobby is concerned...

But, I know what you mean either way. 

And I like looking (and drooling) at new stuff too. Don't we all?


----------



## Setmagic (Aug 31, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Congratz on your new shiny!
> 
> I'll bet they sound fantastic?!


Yes it is, as always, this one is 500Berry with custom balanced cable.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 31, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> FF3 = Fiio Flathead 3
> 1 is the cheapest they can do. 3 is usually the lower-end model. 5 is midrange. 7 is usually high-end. 9 is usually TOTL (FA9 and FH9). However, they are going to launch FA11 this year, so the number is quite messy now. Number + "s" is revision (FH5s)
> 
> FD = Fiio Dynamic
> ...


Will FiiO ever give us a "9" TOTL earbud?  Why no love @FiiO? We are at least worthy of a "7" high-end tier earbud... are we not?!   

Besides the "S" FiiO also likes to throw a "K" in there to keep us on our toes! And "EM" was for "ear monitor" but I do much prefer this new designator "FF" for FiiO Flathead!

*2016*​FiiO EM3; 47Ω (DAP bundled edition)​FiiO EM3; 47Ω (retail edition)​​*2018*​FiiO EM3K \ EM3S; 47ΩPET (w/ 14.8mm driver; "K" version no mic)​​*2020*​FiiO EM5; 32Ω​​*2022*​FiiO FF3; 45ΩBery​​*COMING SOON*​FiiO FF5; ??Ω (w/ mmcx; Q3/4 2022?)​


----------



## WoodyLuvr

syazwaned said:


> My Yinman 600 ohms has arrived, in its coffin box. Very well made cable, cable is sturdy but not as hard as Blur cable. Out of the box impression, loving the warm tonality and wide staging. In live music, layering between musician and audience is perceived better than most earbuds I own before. In comparison to Zen 2.0, Zen 2.0 is warmer, and treble is less articulate. Yinman 600 ohms treble is here, and executed without being too forward.
> 
> 
> This is only impression using dongle Apogee Groove. I need to spend some time to loan my friend Lyr3, my very own Questyle M15 and other desktop amps to see how significant its improvement when plugged with more power. Overrall happy with the purchase!
> ...


Another coffin! But at least you got that cool carry case. Enjoy!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

samandhi said:


> Selling body parts on the "black market" does count where this hobby is concerned...
> 
> But, I know what you mean either way.
> 
> And I like looking (and drooling) at new stuff too. Don't we all?


You only need one (1) kidney... $200K from the Mexican black market could buy a lot of nice audio equipment! Food for thought...  

I would give one of mine but they are too old... probably would turn to dust if disturbed.


----------



## numon

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Sure can though it will have to be from memory because I went ahead and sold the mojitos. The Viridis have the Mojitos beat on soundstage size and separation for sure. The soundstage of the Viridis is possibly the widest I have heard on any earbud which helps with separation which is another strong suit. @WoodyLuvr calls the Viridis the King of Soundstage. As for depth of the stage, I think the Viridis is slightly larger there as well. The Mojito is no slouch though and it has relatively large soundstage as well.
> 
> For detail retrieval and resolution I would call it a toss up between the two. Both the Viridis and the Mojitos provide a very well detailed presentation. Maybe the Viridis have a touch more in the way of micro dynamics in the top end, but conversely the Mojitos may have a touch more detail in the low mid section. On most tracks you'd be hard pressed to tell the resolving power of the two apart which is why I think it's safe to call it a draw.
> 
> I would like to add that the Virdis do the holographic, "outside your head" presentation as well or better than any earbud out there. When I was first listening to them, I found myself looking over my shoulder multiple times to see where a sound was coming from before realizing that it was in fact in the music I was listening too. It's not very often you run into an earbud that has that kind of holographic realism in its presentation.


very helpfull thanks


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> You only need one (1) kidney... $200K from the Mexican black market could buy a lot of nice audio equipment! Food for thought...
> 
> I would give one of mine but they are too old... probably would turn to dust if disturbed.


LOL Fair point! Mine are no spring chickens either besides being abused as a young man.... I might get a total of $10 or so?!  🤷‍♂️


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> LOL Fair point! Mine are no spring chickens either besides being abused as a young man.... I might get a total of $10 or so?!  🤷‍♂️



Still enough for a pair DIY buds though


----------



## samandhi (Aug 31, 2022)

Maybe I am getting too old. Or maybe the producers (and mixers, engineers, etc...) of "nowadays" should be taken back to school. I REALLY like the new Ozzy song Patient Number 9 w/Jeff Beck, but it sounds like shiit (the other song released till the album drops, Degredation also sounds this way). It is so over-produced and is set for maximum loudness so much that there are no dynamics in it at all. I think that they missed out on a tremendous opportunity here (for what could be his last hurrah) IMO. It doesn't even really sound that good on the FF3 (did I mention that it is really a good song though???).


----------



## tendou

JAnonymous5150 said:


> G.O.A.T. is a crazy track with any transducer with a decent soundstage, but the depth and separation of the FF3s allows them to cast some of those cues pretty far afield. It makes sounds come from everywhere rather than just side to side. This was one of the effects that made me recommend the listen so I'm glad it worked for you as well. The whole album has crazy things like that scattered throughout.


I was just listening while doing work on the computer. Using Asura 3.0fe. Suddenly the hair on the back of my head stands on it ends when I played G.O.A.T. It's not even that I liked the melody or feeling any emotion from the music.
Probably the music arrangement stimulates certain area in my brain or something.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Aug 31, 2022)

tendou said:


> I was just listening while doing work on the computer. Using Asura 3.0fe. Suddenly the hair on the back of my head stands on it ends when I played G.O.A.T. It's not even that I liked the melody or feeling any emotion from the music.
> Probably the music arrangement stimulates certain area in my brain or something.



This track is unsettling somehow. But good for testing all technical aspects of an IEMs / headphone. I'm getting my gears out to see how different they sound.

Edit: FF3 kicks my Andromeda's butt (if it has one) in this track on both bass texture and the unsettling soundstage.


----------



## syazwaned

samandhi said:


> Fantastic! Congratz on your new shiny!





WoodyLuvr said:


> Another coffin! But at least you got that cool carry case. Enjoy!




Thanks loving them like crazy now. I was dining out with my wife just now, but all I am thinking while eating that steak, is to hear my Yinman as soon as I get back haha.


----------



## tendou

o0genesis0o said:


> This track is unsettling somehow. But good for testing all technical aspects of an IEMs / headphone. I'm getting my gears out to see how different they sound.
> 
> Edit: FF3 kicks my Andromeda's butt (if it has one) in this track on both bass texture and the unsettling soundstage.


yes unsettling somehow. Interesting. Though it maybe not something that I want to listen to again as I don't really like it. If I listen to it again it will probably be purely out of curiosity only.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

tendou said:


> I was just listening while doing work on the computer. Using Asura 3.0fe. Suddenly the hair on the back of my head stands on it ends when I played G.O.A.T. It's not even that I liked the melody or feeling any emotion from the music.
> Probably the music arrangement stimulates certain area in my brain or something.



Interesting. They say that binaural audio tracks can cause a tingling feeling up the spine and stuff. Maybe the feeling you got was something similar. I have never experienced it the feeling myself so I'm totally jealous!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

tendou said:


> yes unsettling somehow. Interesting. Though it maybe not something that I want to listen to again as I don't really like it. If I listen to it again it will probably be purely out of curiosity only.



Hmm, I don't find it unsettling but I guess I can see how it might be. The whole album is definitely an experiment in aural textures and soundscapes. Interesting indeed 🤔


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Will FiiO ever give us a "9" TOTL earbud?  Why no love @FiiO? We are at least worthy of a "7" high-end tier earbud... are we not?!
> 
> Besides the "S" FiiO also likes to throw a "K" in there to keep us on our toes! And "EM" was for "ear monitor" but I do much prefer this new designator "FF" for FiiO Flathead!
> 
> *2016*​FiiO EM3; 47Ω (DAP bundled edition)​FiiO EM3; 47Ω (retail edition)​​*2018*​FiiO EM3K \ EM3S; 47ΩPET (w/ 14.8mm driver; "K" version no mic)​​*2020*​FiiO EM5; 32Ω​​*2022*​FiiO FF3; 45ΩBery​​*COMING SOON*​FiiO FF5; ??Ω (w/ mmcx; Q3/4 2022?)​


This is only guessing, about FF5, right?
Maybe EM5s or EM7 will come out before FF5 
I wish they are all 64Ω or more


----------



## christianfps

tendou said:


> I was just listening while doing work on the computer. Using Asura 3.0fe. Suddenly the hair on the back of my head stands on it ends when I played G.O.A.T. It's not even that I liked the melody or feeling any emotion from the music.
> Probably the music arrangement stimulates certain area in my brain or something.


I would like to listen to this with Viridis soon hahaha!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Has anyone else here had a helluva time trying to get a good fit with the VE Sun Dice? So far I have spent more time fiddling with the fit than actually listening on the two occasions I have sat down with the intention of doing a demo session with them. I'm too worn out from drumming so much lately to have the patience to deal with it so I put them down for the second time in favor of listening with something else. From the little I have heard, the Sun Dice seem like they have some massive potential too.


A few of these bell-horn (aka funnel) shaped shells can be difficult to fit for some ears... especially the larger diameter ones. I too found the VE Sun Dice and Copper, as well as the Zen SU to be a little pesky in this department... coupled with an ever so slightly heavier and stiffer cable they may want to move around.


----------



## mochill (Aug 31, 2022)

One of The legend has returned
US $299.00 | Yuin PKE Open Dynamic Flat Hheaded Earbuds Flagship Hifi Music Audiophile Wired Headset Flat -headed Plug Earphones PK1 PK2
https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0J3VBS


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 31, 2022)

mochill said:


> One of The legend has returned
> US $299.00 | Yuin PKE Open Dynamic Flat Hheaded Earbuds Flagship Hifi Music Audiophile Wired Headset Flat -headed Plug Earphones PK1 PK2
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0J3VBS


Yes, there has been some chatter about this on the other boards and forums...

*2022 - Oak Leaf Audio Yuin PK Evolution; 150Ω (aka Yuin PKE; an official Yuin PK1 re-release)*



Spoiler: Specs


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Aug 31, 2022)

furyossa said:


> This is only guessing, about FF5, right?
> Maybe EM5s or EM7 will come out before FF5
> I wish they are all 64Ω or more


Originally, when first announced the tentative release date was SEPTEMBER 2022 but now...


o0genesis0o said:


> Fiio replied to me that they have no news to share about FF5 yet, but they hope to release it before the end of the year. Maybe we have scared them


----------



## numon (Aug 31, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Sure can though it will have to be from memory because I went ahead and sold the mojitos. The Viridis have the Mojitos beat on soundstage size and separation for sure. The soundstage of the Viridis is possibly the widest I have heard on any earbud which helps with separation which is another strong suit. @WoodyLuvr calls the Viridis the King of Soundstage. As for depth of the stage, I think the Viridis is slightly larger there as well. The Mojito is no slouch though and it has relatively large soundstage as well.
> 
> For detail retrieval and resolution I would call it a toss up between the two. Both the Viridis and the Mojitos provide a very well detailed presentation. Maybe the Viridis have a touch more in the way of micro dynamics in the top end, but conversely the Mojitos may have a touch more detail in the low mid section. On most tracks you'd be hard pressed to tell the resolving power of the two apart which is why I think it's safe to call it a draw.
> 
> I would like to add that the Virdis do the holographic, "outside your head" presentation as well or better than any earbud out there. When I was first listening to them, I found myself looking over my shoulder multiple times to see where a sound was coming from before realizing that it was in fact in the music I was listening too. It's not very often you run into an earbud that has that kind of holographic realism in its presentation.


i read on foreign language  forum that there can be  tunning diffrences .some sound best some les sq,do you know anything about tunning diffenrece problem?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

numon said:


> i read on foreign language  forum that there can be  tunning diffrences .some sound best some les sq,do you know anything about tunning diffenrece problem?



Nope. Sorry, but I haven't heard anything about it. Unfortunately it seems that the Viridis are relatively overlooked around here so there are very few people that own them that I have found to compare notes with.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Nope. Sorry, but I haven't heard anything about it. Unfortunately it seems that the Viridis are relatively overlooked around here so there are very few people that own them that I have found to compare notes with.


Not overlooked simply past their time. The Green Mambas debuted in ~SEP 2020 and were discussed heavily from then until the early months of 2021. Many of us acquired them but moved on (selling them) for other new wonders catching our eyes and ears. A very common occurrence here !


----------



## JAnonymous5150

WoodyLuvr said:


> Not overlooked simply past their time. The Green Mambas debuted in ~SEP 2020 and were discussed heavily from then until the early months of 2021. Many of us acquired them but moved on (selling them) for other new wonders catching our eyes and ears. A very common occurrence here !



All you have to do is search this thread to see that while they were asked about a bit they were not purchased by nearly as many people as some more popular buds. However, my comment was about people I actually know where I might have been able to compare my Viridis to someone else's to check variance and written sources of review where others had done the same. The fact is there is very little material available regarding them that I have come across and only one other person I know owns them.


----------



## ttorbic

Ok fellow jazz lovers! For all of you with an FF3, could you check out this track and let me know what you think? Especially the staging , separation, and timbre. Thanks!


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 31, 2022)

I believe I will have a way for everyone to order bass foams (or whatever other FF3 foams) from Fiio through AE very soon. We are trying a new order link right now to make sure it works and I am confirming with them that I can give it out to others once it's confirmed to work so keep your eyes peeled for an update!


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Aug 31, 2022)

ttorbic said:


> Ok fellow jazz lovers! For all of you with an FF3, could you check out this track and let me know what you think? Especially the staging , separation, and timbre. Thanks!




I will look this up when I get home to my FF3s for sure. Right now I have the NSC Audio DIY 80ohm LCP buds with me and I continue to be impressed by them. They are one of the best sub $20 buds I have heard and I find myself listening to them quite often even when other more expensive buds are available. They're just a great all-arounder.

Edit: Curiosity got the better of me so I had a listen as a preview and I'm diggin' Nduduzo Makhathini's style so thanks for the rec. I'll update when I get to listen with the FF3s.


----------



## syazwaned

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I believe I will have a way for everyone to order bass foams (or whatever other FF3 foams) from Fiio through AE very soon. We are trying a new order link right now yo make sure it works and I am confirming with them that I can give it out to others once it's confirmed to work so keep your eyes peeled for an update!


awesome!


----------



## MelodyMood

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I'm sorry, but I haven't tried either version of the YD30 earbuds from NiceHCK. I had seen them a few times while shopping around for buds, but they just never made it into my cart. I hope someone that has can help you out since you seem to be pretty interested in them. What has you looking at the YD30s so hard, if you don't mind me asking?


I am actually buying them and in fact ordered Silver Cable one. Hope it will be good. Let's see. But I also assume that no one else bought it here yet.


----------



## RMesser9

Well, the *RikuBuds Alter Archer 1* finally arrived today. These are spectacular. Everything from the bass to the mids to the treble is so cohesive and easy to listen to. I will write a review soon, but I will say these will probably be my new go-tos for music.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

MelodyMood said:


> I am actually buying them and in fact ordered Silver Cable one. Hope it will be good. Let's see. But I also assume that no one else bought it here yet.



Congratulations on the new earbuds! You'll have to make sure you let us know how you like them once you've had time to give them a listen. I'll keep an eye out for a post of your impressions.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 1, 2022)

Okay guys so this is how Fiio wants us to order replacement foams for the FF3s. It's really simple and I successfully placed an order for some today that I just got the tracking info from Fiio for now along with confirmation that I could tell everyone here how to order some for themselves.

First, you visit the AliExpress link that I will include below which will take you to an item in the Fiio store for parts and repair after sale service. You place an order for this item, changing the quantity to the number of individual foams you would like (purchase two for every PAIR of foams you would like so if you want 3 pairs for example you change the quantity to 6). Along with that purchase you include a message at check out stating what you are ordering. In this case you would tell them that you would like to purchase X number of bass foams for the Fiio FF3 earbud. You can also purchase the balanced or crisp foams if you'd like just make sure you are specific in your note at check out when you tell them the number and type of foams you're purchasing. There is an icon on the checkout page that looks like a little pencil writing on a notepad (on the Android app anyways) that you click to write the note before paying.

An example for a complete order:

Quantity: 12

Note: I would like to order 6 bass foams (3 pairs) for the Fiio FF3 earbuds.

I would like to order a further 6 balanced foams (3 pairs) for the Fiio FF3 earbuds.

Thank you so much for making the replacement foams available. Head-fi loves Fiio and the FF3!

If anyone has any questions let me know and I will do my best to answer. Fiio's customer support was very helpful in putting this together for me/us and I can't thank them enough so if you guys can do me a favor and include a nice thank you in the check out note with your purchases I would really appreciate it. Their service rep that runs the Fiio account here on head-fi really went above and beyond to make these easily available for order when they otherwise hadn't planned on doing so.

Link to the AliExpress item in the Fiio Store:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004279948615.html


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay guys so this is how Fiio wants us to order replacement foams for the FF3s. It's really simple and I successfully placed an order for some today that I just got the tracking info from Fiio for now along with confirmation that I could tell everyone here how to order some for themselves.
> 
> First, you visit the AliExpress link that I will include below which will take you to an item in the Fiio store for parts and repair after sale service. You place an order for this item, changing the quantity to the number of individual foams you would like (purchase two for every PAIR of foams you would like so if you want 3 pairs for example you change the quantity to 6). Along with that purchase you include a message at check out stating what you are ordering. In this case you would tell them that you would like to purchase X number of bass foams for the Fiio FF3 earbud. You can also purchase the balanced or crisp foams if you'd like just make sure you are specific in your note at check out when you tell them the number and type of foams you're purchasing. There is an icon on the checkout page that looks like a little pencil writing on a notepad (on the Android app anyways) that you click to write the note before paying.
> 
> ...


Hey Bro, you knocked it out of the park!!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> Hey Bro, you knocked it out of the park!!



Thank you, sir! Really though, the rep I contacted at Fiio did all the heavy lifting. I just explained that they served up a sick pair of buds with the FF3s and that the bass foams they included were some of the most versatile foams the earbud enthusiasts on this thread had encountered. The customer service rep and parts department dude took it from there. Two days later we have ourselves a legit pipeline for acquiring FF3 foams! So make sure you guys thank them from all of us here when you order so they know how much we appreciate it.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Sep 1, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay guys so this is how Fiio wants us to order replacement foams for the FF3s. It's really simple and I successfully placed an order for some today that I just got the tracking info from Fiio for now along with confirmation that I could tell everyone here how to order some for themselves.
> 
> First, you visit the AliExpress link that I will include below which will take you to an item in the Fiio store for parts and repair after sale service. You place an order for this item, changing the quantity to the number of individual foams you would like (purchase two for every PAIR of foams you would like so if you want 3 pairs for example you change the quantity to 6). Along with that purchase you include a message at check out stating what you are ordering. In this case you would tell them that you would like to purchase X number of bass foams for the Fiio FF3 earbud. You can also purchase the balanced or crisp foams if you'd like just make sure you are specific in your note at check out when you tell them the number and type of foams you're purchasing. There is an icon on the checkout page that looks like a little pencil writing on a notepad (on the Android app anyways) that you click to write the note before paying.
> 
> ...



FYI, you can use the same approach to order extra plug for FF3 cable (or any other Fiio cable) as well. I’m ordering 2.5mm connectors for my FF3 this way.

Edit: 8 dollars each plug, btw.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> FYI, you can use the same approach to order extra plug for FF3 cable (or any other Fiio cable) as well. I’m ordering 2.5mm connectors for my FF3 this way.



Yeah, this is standard for parts, but it has to be for parts their service department is offering which is what the Fiio rep was nice enough to setup for us with the foams.


----------



## baskingshark

mochill said:


> One of The legend has returned
> US $299.00 | Yuin PKE Open Dynamic Flat Hheaded Earbuds Flagship Hifi Music Audiophile Wired Headset Flat -headed Plug Earphones PK1 PK2
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0J3VBS



Thanks for the share. But when I saw non-detachable cables at $300 USD, that's a deal breaker! One awkward yank away from being a mega white elephant. YMMV.

Though on a serious note, some of us wanna cable roll to balanced/aftermarket cables or even pair the earbud with BT adapters, so it is a bummer TOTL earbuds are still being released this year with non-detachable cables.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for the share. But when I saw non-detachable cables at $300 USD, that's a deal breaker! One awkward yank away from being a mega white elephant. YMMV.
> 
> Though on a serious note, some of us wanna cable roll to balanced/aftermarket cables or even pair the earbud with BT adapters, so it is a bummer TOTL earbuds are still being released this year with non-detachable cables.



I actually posted about this right around when I first started posting on this thread a few weeks ago. It amazes me that detachable cables aren't standard on premium buds. With IEMs and headphones you find a few examples of fixed cables on premium sets, but they're the exception whereas with earbuds it seems to be pretty widely accepted and practiced that fixed cables with higher end buds are acceptable. 

Most of my expensive sets have removable cables thankfully, but when I use my Simphonio Dragon 3s for example I am super careful and it definitely bugs me to have to be that conscious of it. They are so good that I had to keep them, but I sold all the other TOTL level buds I have tried with fixed cables because if they aren't exceptionally good it's just not worth the hassle for me.


----------



## drewbadour

Serratus arrived today.

I'm blown away and they have been stuck in my ears all day!

Probably by favorite audio purchase of all time!


----------



## 4ceratops

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I will look this up when I get home to my FF3s for sure. Right now I have the NSC Audio DIY 80ohm LCP buds with me and I continue to be impressed by them. They are one of the best sub $20 buds I have heard and I find myself listening to them quite often even when other more expensive buds are available. They're just a great all-arounder.
> 
> Edit: Curiosity got the better of me so I had a listen as a preview and I'm diggin' Nduduzo Makhathini's style so thanks for the rec. I'll update when I get to listen with the FF3s.


You have already mentioned NSC Audio DIY 80ohm LCP several times. I must admit I was intrigued by those buds. I would be grateful if you could post a brief comparison with the Yincrow X6, NiceHCK EB2s, Qian39 or Penon PAC Earbud if you own any of the above.

Have a nice morning (it's 08:08 AM here right now).


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay guys so this is how Fiio wants us to order replacement foams for the FF3s. It's really simple and I successfully placed an order for some today that I just got the tracking info from Fiio for now along with confirmation that I could tell everyone here how to order some for themselves.
> 
> First, you visit the AliExpress link that I will include below which will take you to an item in the Fiio store for parts and repair after sale service. You place an order for this item, changing the quantity to the number of individual foams you would like (purchase two for every PAIR of foams you would like so if you want 3 pairs for example you change the quantity to 6). Along with that purchase you include a message at check out stating what you are ordering. In this case you would tell them that you would like to purchase X number of bass foams for the Fiio FF3 earbud. You can also purchase the balanced or crisp foams if you'd like just make sure you are specific in your note at check out when you tell them the number and type of foams you're purchasing. There is an icon on the checkout page that looks like a little pencil writing on a notepad (on the Android app anyways) that you click to write the note before paying.
> 
> ...


Put in in my signature again.  This is a worthy post.  


o0genesis0o said:


> FYI, you can use the same approach to order extra plug for FF3 cable (or any other Fiio cable) as well. I’m ordering 2.5mm connectors for my FF3 this way.
> 
> Edit: 8 dollars each plug, btw.


Oh!  I’m following your lead on this one.  Thank you brother!


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 1, 2022)

4ceratops said:


> You have already mentioned NSC Audio DIY 80ohm LCP several times. I must admit I was intrigued by those buds. I would be grateful if you could post a brief comparison with the Yincrow X6, NiceHCK EB2s, Qian39 or Penon PAC Earbud if you own any of the above.
> 
> Have a nice morning (it's 08:08 AM here right now).



Okay so I have heard the X6, the EB2s, and the Qian39, but I gave away the Qian39 and the X6 because they weren't really my style and the EB2s weren't mine. This means that the best I can do is try to give you a comparison from memory which I will try to do, but I'm giving you fair warning as to why it's only going to be general.

That said, the closest comparison would be to the EB2s. The NSC 80s, as I will refer to them from now on, and the EB2s are actually pretty similar earbuds but with a few key differences. First, as far as technical performance goes I believe that the NSC 80s avoid the overly smoothed note articulation which was something I sometimes noted as a shortcoming when listening to the EB2s over the month that I had them even though I ultimately liked them quite a bit. The bass on the NSC 80s reaches deeper and has greater punch and a more detailed presentation. The mids on both are smooth and musical while the treble on the NSC 80s has a bit more air and sparkle than I recall from the EB2s.

The other major difference that I noted is that the NSC 80s have a significantly larger soundstage as I remember the EB2s to have been somewhat intimate in their presentation. I think this is likely do to the greater treble extension from of the NSC 80s as well as the larger port they have on the back in comparison to the smaller opening I remember on the EB2s. I think the increased bass response may also have much to do with that bigger port too, but that's just a guess. I also find that the NSC 80s have an overall more authoritative presentation that differs from the sometimes overly smooth and polite version the EB2s give the listener.

I hope this helps. I have to say that I liked the EB2s for the time I had them, but they didn't capture my attention of have me reaching for them over and over again like these NSC 80s to. I am very glad that I took a chance on these as they're quickly becoming one of my favorites from the budget side of my collection.

Edit: I wanted to add that even though the bass is punchier and reaches deeper on the NSC 80s they are not bass heavy or basshead earbuds. The bass is elevated a touch above neutral, but not by much. I just wanted to point out the better articulation and punch as well as the deeper reach of the bass over the EB2s, but didn't mean to convey a sense of these earbuds being bassy.


----------



## syazwaned

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay guys so this is how Fiio wants us to order replacement foams for the FF3s. It's really simple and I successfully placed an order for some today that I just got the tracking info from Fiio for now along with confirmation that I could tell everyone here how to order some for themselves.
> 
> First, you visit the AliExpress link that I will include below which will take you to an item in the Fiio store for parts and repair after sale service. You place an order for this item, changing the quantity to the number of individual foams you would like (purchase two for every PAIR of foams you would like so if you want 3 pairs for example you change the quantity to 6). Along with that purchase you include a message at check out stating what you are ordering. In this case you would tell them that you would like to purchase X number of bass foams for the Fiio FF3 earbud. You can also purchase the balanced or crisp foams if you'd like just make sure you are specific in your note at check out when you tell them the number and type of foams you're purchasing. There is an icon on the checkout page that looks like a little pencil writing on a notepad (on the Android app anyways) that you click to write the note before paying.
> 
> ...


bro this is like first discovery of fire by our ancestors. awesome work!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

syazwaned said:


> bro this is like first discovery of fire by our ancestors. awesome work!



Haha, thanks man!


----------



## silverszi

Just had a thought 
custom earbuds like ciems
idk how that would really work to prevent a seal still and what materials it would have to be made of to still allow for near zero isolation


----------



## 4ceratops

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay so I have heard the X6, the EB2s, and the Qian39, but I gave away the Qian39 and the X6 because they weren't really my style and the EB2s weren't mine. This means that the best I can do is try to give you a comparison from memory which I will try to do, but I'm giving you fair warning as to why it's only going to be general.
> 
> That said, the closest comparison would be to the EB2s. The NSC 80s, as I will refer to them from now on, and the EB2s are actually pretty similar earbuds but with a few key differences. First, as far as technical performance goes I believe that the NSC 80s avoid the overly smoothed note articulation which was something I sometimes noted as a shortcoming when listening to the EB2s over the month that I had them even though I ultimately liked them quite a bit. The bass in the NSC 80s reaches deeper and has greater punch and a more detailed presentation. The mids on both are smooth and musical while the treble on the NSC 80s has a bit more air and sparkle than I recall from the EB2s.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much, of course your reply helped me to form a better preliminary view of the NSC 80s. I had put the EB2s aside just because of the subjective lack of bass authority and overall too slick sound character. Their naturalness in the mids, however, I appreciate. Based on your description, the NSC 80s might suit me better.

Thanks again...


----------



## yaps66

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Nope. Sorry, but I haven't heard anything about it. Unfortunately it seems that the Viridis are relatively overlooked around here so there are very few people that own them that I have found to compare notes with.


Trigger pulled.  Waiting game for AliExpress standard shipping! After that we can compare notes!


----------



## yaps66

mt877 said:


> Hey Bro, you knocked it out of the park!!


Not unexpected.  You're an asset to this hobby!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

yaps66 said:


> Trigger pulled.  Waiting game for AliExpress standard shipping! After that we can compare notes!



Awesome! I'll be looking forward to it.



Are they there yet? LOL 😉


----------



## JAnonymous5150

4ceratops said:


> Thank you very much, of course your reply helped me to form a better preliminary view of the NSC 80s. I had put the EB2s aside just because of the subjective lack of bass authority and overall too slick sound character. Their naturalness in the mids, however, I appreciate. Based on your description, the NSC 80s might suit me better.
> 
> Thanks again...



Glad I could help!


----------



## baskingshark

Bros apparently smabat is having some store sale, 40% off M4 and the drivers.






https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...entstream_source=permalink&refid=52&__tn__=-R

And they claim they will have a monthly sale.


----------



## rprodrigues

samandhi said:


> I got my new buds from @FranQL. WOW! I have to say that both @Ronion and @FranQL were right. The Smabat 150Ti has some serious potential. @ FranQL has outdone himself on these. The tuning is similar to the FQL Blackhole Redux (with some positive tweaks), but the technicalities and acoustics are on a whole new level IMHO. I was just listening to them, and I heard a sound from the left side and because the dynamics are so good, and the staging is SO wide, I thought it was actually coming from outside my house. I felt pretty stupid when I actually got up to go look... LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: FQL Grand Finale


Franql is a true tuning magician.


----------



## o0genesis0o

baskingshark said:


> Bros apparently smabat is having some store sale, 40% off M4 and the drivers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just great, I just spent all of my funds on VE stuffs, a cable, and some drivers


----------



## sofastreamer

does anybody know, if any company is developing an earbud with planar drivers?

just listening to the lcd-i3 right now, which i absolutely love, but i wish to not have to stick them into my ear canal.


----------



## baskingshark

sofastreamer said:


> does anybody know, if any company is developing an earbud with planar drivers?
> 
> just listening to the lcd-i3 right now, which i absolutely love, but i wish to not have to stick them into my ear canal.



@ValSuki is not a company, but I remember him saying he was doing a DIY planar earbud.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

sofastreamer said:


> does anybody know, if any company is developing an earbud with planar drivers?
> 
> just listening to the lcd-i3 right now, which i absolutely love, but i wish to not have to stick them into my ear canal.



@ClieOS posted instructions and a parts/shopping list for making a pair of your own if you're into DIYing. I'm currently awaiting the parts that I ordered to do just that. Though with how popular planar IEMs have become I would imagine we'll be seeing a planar earbud from a major manufacturer sooner rather than later if you're patient.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

baskingshark said:


> @ValSuki is not a company, but I remember him saying he was doing a DIY planar earbud.


*tgxear Panorama Ridge; 16Ω* (14.2mm planar magnetic driver; currently @ prototype stage)

*TGXEAR* made by *@tgx78*


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Thank you, sir! Really though, the rep I contacted at Fiio did all the heavy lifting. I just explained that they served up a sick pair of buds with the FF3s and that the bass foams they included were some of the most versatile foams the earbud enthusiasts on this thread had encountered. The customer service rep and parts department dude took it from there. Two days later we have ourselves a legit pipeline for acquiring FF3 foams! So make sure you guys thank them from all of us here when you order so they know how much we appreciate it.


You took the first step and enlightened them to take action with your words of encouragement.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Sep 1, 2022)

Just a bunch of expensive hobbies in one photo. What do you listen to today?

Cello suites with FF3 is *chef kiss*



mt877 said:


> You took the first step and enlightened them to take action with your words of encouragement.


I hope that our praises would bubble up in Fiio. I imagine it would feel good if your creation is appreciated in this cut throat industry. I do hope that they manage to sell enough of these FF3 to at least get back the R&D. These buds are great gears.


Edit: I think I'm starting to imagine things. because I think FF3 + KA3 sounds better on my Android phone via USB-C than on my iPhone via Lightning. Everything seems more separated and a bit further away. That's impossible. Unless the limited power supply via lightning port of iPhone has something to do with it? Weird.


----------



## mt877

yaps66 said:


> Not unexpected.  You're an asset to this hobby!


Of course I know you're directing that to @JAnonymous5150.


----------



## tendou

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hmm, I don't find it unsettling but I guess I can see how it might be. The whole album is definitely an experiment in aur
> 
> 
> JAnonymous5150 said:
> ...



The band is probably not your average band. They know and did something with their track. What is their background actually? 

It's funny that usually this kind of music brings up emotion and feeling. Not something more primal, physical or a bit visceral like this. I might try listen to them while not doing other stuff next time.

A few weeks ago I was listening to delta sleep track from youtube while trying to take a nap.  Was using tang zu shimin li at that time. And they gives me some strange lucid dream psychedelic experience with some awareness of being in 2 place at the same time.

 From time to time I do hear music in my sleep, mostly with singing. It's not any music I have heard before. And it will be a several songs that I feel like I'm consciously creating them up at a time. Since it's several songs I have a hard time remembering them and usually forgot them not long after waking up. Ifthere is a device that can record dream I probably can make some albums. lol


----------



## tendou

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, there has been some chatter about this on the other boards and forums...
> 
> *2022 - Oak Leaf Audio Yuin PK Evolution; 150Ω (aka Yuin PKE; an official Yuin PK1 re-release)*
> 
> ...


where is it sold?


----------



## tendou

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I will look this up when I get home to my FF3s for sure. Right now I have the NSC Audio DIY 80ohm LCP buds with me and I continue to be impressed by them. They are one of the best sub $20 buds I have heard and I find myself listening to them quite often even when other more expensive buds are available. They're just a great all-arounder.
> 
> Edit: Curiosity got the better of me so I had a listen as a preview and I'm diggin' Nduduzo Makhathini's style so thanks for the rec. I'll update when I get to listen with the FF3s.


Should I get them with cable? Their cable with mic is good or there are better choice for the difference of 8 usd?


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Just a bunch of expensive hobbies in one photo. What do you listen to today?
> 
> Cello suites with FF3 is *chef kiss*
> 
> ...


Godsmack discography seems to be the flavor of the day for myself. Along with the DX160, and FQL Grand Finale there is some terrific sound keeping me focused on Head-Fi work. 



Spoiler: iBasso DX160 > Neutron Music Player > FQL Grand Finale



Apologies for the poor quality picture (my phone seems a bit outdated where camera quality is concerned).


----------



## o0genesis0o (Sep 1, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> G.O.A.T. is a crazy track with any transducer with a decent soundstage, but the depth and separation of the FF3s allows them to cast some of those cues pretty far afield. It makes sounds come from everywhere rather than just side to side. This was one of the effects that made me recommend the listen so I'm glad it worked for you as well. The whole album has crazy things like that scattered throughout.



Listening to this track again. The creepy feeling of this track reminds me of the original lavender town theme of Pokemon red and blue. Listening to this one on FF3 in the dark is a bad idea  


Btw, AirPods Pro without spatial audio processing does not do anything for this track (GOAT). Everything is just flat and 2D. Listening to this with audio processing on is pretty chilly though.


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> Godsmack discography seems to be the flavor of the day for myself. Along with the DX160, and FQL Grand Finale there is some terrific sound keeping me focused on Head-Fi work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Cool laptop, cool music player, cool cable, cool ear buds. Cool everything, mate   

I know those DAPs are not exactly the most logical purchase but I can't stop thinking about getting one. I like the feeling of holding one of those bricks in my hand.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Of course I know you're directing that to @JAnonymous5150.


Maybe, but you are an asset to this community (IMHO) also. 


tendou said:


> where is it sold?


As posted by @mochill here:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/325...e=ProductDetail&platform=AE&afSmartRedirect=y


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Cool laptop, cool music player, cool cable, cool ear buds. Cool everything, mate
> 
> I know those DAPs are not exactly the most logical purchase but I can't stop thinking about getting one. I like the feeling of holding one of those bricks in my hand.


Thank you. I thought your picture was also very cool. Geez, and your handwriting, there is no way I could ever write that legible! LOL

It all depends on the way you think I suppose. For me a DAP is the MOST logical purchase. I mainly use a (gaming) laptop around the house (though I do have an office set up where I CAN use it), so I don't have a desktop rig. These DAPs ARE my desktop setup (more like AIO for me). Having said that, (some of them) aren't really bricks at all. The DX160 is really small, but packs almost as much power as the DX300 (about 1.2W @32ohms from balanced), but is smaller than my Note 10. This being the regular sized Note 10, rather than the "+" version. 



Spoiler: iBasso DX300, Samsung Note 10, iBasso DX160



The last picture is of the iBasso DX300 along with the iPod Nano just to show (more) contrast.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Sep 1, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Thank you. I thought your picture was also very cool. Geez, and your handwriting, there is no way I could ever write that legible! LOL
> 
> It all depends on the way you think I suppose. For me a DAP is the MOST logical purchase. I mainly use a (gaming) laptop around the house (though I do have an office set up where I CAN use it), so I don't have a desktop rig. These DAPs ARE my desktop setup (more like AIO for me). Having said that, (some of them) aren't really bricks at all. The DX160 is really small, but packs almost as much power as the DX300 (about 1.2W @32ohms from balanced), but is smaller than my Note 10. This being the regular sized Note 10, rather than the "+" version.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the size comparison! I guess whenever I see a DAP, I think of the Fiio M11plus and A&K SR25, thicc chunky bois.

The "not the most logical" is about the longevity vs costs of these things. Essentially, I'm buying an old Android phone + DAC/AMP at the same time when I buy an Android DAP. If the battery of this thing dies or the OS is too outdated that it is insecure and incompatible with streaming apps, it would be really a brick. So, in some sense, a phone + a battery powered DAC (I mean the big powerful ones like iFi Gryphon, not the dongle that is limited by the power supply of the phone) is the most logical and cost effective solution for serious portable sound. At least that's how I convince myself not to drop AUD $1000 on a DAP  

My friend who is getting started (from a modded KZ that I gifted him) is perfectly happy despite how nasty the whole combo sounds to me. Here I am comparing FF3+KA3 sound between iPhone and Android phone. Sometimes ignorant is a bliss in this hobby.

Edit: re: handwriting: I bought fancy fountain pens, thinking that they came with better handwriting. They didn't. So I grabbed some Spencerian books and practiced. Did you know that such "fancy" handwriting was designed for speed and efficiency? It was before the typewriter time. Every document must be handwritten neatly and quickly, so secretaries must be as efficient as possible to write all day.


----------



## mochill

samandhi said:


> Maybe, but you are an asset to this community (IMHO) also.
> 
> As posted by @mochill here:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/325...e=ProductDetail&platform=AE&afSmartRedirect=y


I've already posted it 😉


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Thanks for the size comparison! I guess whenever I see a DAP, I think of the Fiio M11plus and A&K SR25, thicc chunky bois.
> 
> The "not the most logical" is about the longevity vs costs of these things. Essentially, I'm buying an old Android phone + DAC/AMP at the same time when I buy an Android DAP. If the battery of this thing dies or the OS is too outdated that it is insecure and incompatible with streaming apps, it would be really a brick. So, in some sense, a phone + a battery powered DAC (I mean the big powerful ones like iFi Gryphon, not the dongle that is limited by the power supply of the phone) is the most logical and cost effective solution for serious portable sound. At least that's how I convince myself not to drop AUD $1000 on a DAP
> 
> ...


Oh, I get it, which is why I said that it depended on how you looked at it. For you (and a TON of other people) it makes sense to have a desktop solution. For me none of the issues you mentioned as being hinderances affect me. 

Changing batteries in these things are so much easier than in a phone (nowadays), and if you are anything resembling a DIYer, it is a simple matter IMO. As for updates or security, I don't install ANY app that is not a music player (UAPP, Neutron, Hiby, Amazon Music) and I never do anything online with them except stream music through the app (or my NAS setup). Also, beyond updating whatever FW iBasso puts out, I NEVER update my apps either (making them compatible forever). I imagine that at SOME point (maybe 10 years from now) Amazon Music won't play anything unless I update the app, but I have yet to see that happen, so all is well on that front also.  But if that SHOULD ever happen, I would look into installing a custom ROM with an updated OS.

One other thing is the cost. I don't know the conversion to AUD but I paid $399 for the DX160, so there is that also.... 


mochill said:


> I've already posted it 😉


My point exactly...


----------



## Expansion

Guys, as of 2022, which would be the low budget king, less than 5$ shipped earphone to buy?

Years ago, I used to buy the fake Philips SHE3800, I had 5 pairs, but all ended up with cable broken for 1 channel.

Now what should I buy?


----------



## kish05

Hey guys, what is the best earbuds with amazing imaging and soundstage? Any suggestions?


----------



## drewbadour

kish05 said:


> Hey guys, what is the best earbuds with amazing imaging and soundstage? Any suggestions?


Of the limited number of buds I've tried, the FF3 has some of the most phenomenal stage and imaging!



Expansion said:


> Guys, as of 2022, which would be the low budget king, less than 5$ shipped earphone to buy?
> 
> Years ago, I used to buy the fake Philips SHE3800, I had 5 pairs, but all ended up with cable broken for 1 channel.
> 
> Now what should I buy?


Likely Vido!


----------



## kish05

drewbadour said:


> Of the limited number of buds I've tried, the FF3 has some of the most phenomenal stage and imaging!
> 
> 
> Likely Vido!


Thanks drewbadour!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

tendou said:


> Should I get them with cable? Their cable with mic is good or there are better choice for the difference of 8 usd?



I ordered the version without a cable because I have so many cables around as it is so I can't tell you how good or useful the cable might be.


----------



## Expansion (Sep 1, 2022)

drewbadour said:


> Of the limited number of buds I've tried, the FF3 has some of the most phenomenal stage and imaging!
> 
> 
> Likely Vido!



Well, since I couldn't get my hands on SHE3800 replacements, at some point I ended up buying Vido's, already have 3 pairs of these too.
Vido's cable starts to become rock solid hardened after a while.

I like the sound signature of the SHE3800 more, it's darker, less brightness and I think there's also something extra in the midbass.

Besides Vido's, do you have any other suggestion?

If I increase the budget to 20$, is there an absolute gem, considering the fact that people have so many and so different tastes?
For example, at some point I bought Mrice and Awei( or Qian, I forgot) and they weren't my cup of tea at all, despite costing more.

To be honest, I could even throw in 100$, but I'm afraid that I'll cry for my money...it's so easy to get disappointed in this audio domain.

LE: For example, I have a pair of AKG from Samsung Galaxy S8 phone, and even though they seem to sound more detailed than the SHE3800, the midrance/voice sounds somehow muffled, and thrown way too much in the background. I dislike this kind of tuning.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

tendou said:


> The band is probably not your average band. They know and did something with their track. What is their background actually?
> 
> It's funny that usually this kind of music brings up emotion and feeling. Not something more primal, physical or a bit visceral like this. I might try listen to them while not doing other stuff next time.
> 
> ...



I don't know a ton about them aside from the fact that they started out as a kinda prog meets technical metal outfit before dropping the lyrics/vocals from their music and evolving their instrumental sound over several albums to this prog/djent/experimental music you hear on New Levels New Devils. 

I discovered them on accident when they opened at a festival I went to. When I heard them then they were obviously very talented, but still played more of a melodic technical metal kinda sound. A few years later I heard one of their old songs while listening to a playlist of mine on shuffle and decided to see if they had anything new out. Their music had changed quite a bit and was moving in an interesting direction so I started listening to their stuff and following their progress and releases.

I saw them on the tour of the west coast in the US that they did in support of New Levels and I have seen them one more since then at a festival my band played that Polyphia played as well. I don't know if they did anything special or consciously to make G.O.A.T. creepy. I just really dig the sound they have put together and thought it's unique composition sounded cool on the FF3s so I posted it. I had no idea it would inspire this much conversation, but I'm really happy that it did  and I'm glad you guys enjoy it.😎🤘


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Maybe, but you are an asset to this community (IMHO) also.
> 
> As posted by @mochill here:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/325...e=ProductDetail&platform=AE&afSmartRedirect=y



Somehow I missed you calling me an asset to this community. You're making me blush bro. Thanks for saying something so kind!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

kish05 said:


> Hey guys, what is the best earbuds with amazing imaging and soundstage? Any suggestions?



Did you have a budget in mind for these buds?


----------



## syazwaned

o0genesis0o said:


> Just a bunch of expensive hobbies in one photo. What do you listen to today?
> 
> Cello suites with FF3 is *chef kiss*
> 
> ...




It is a power thing. My M15 dongle has significantly more power when run through laptop than using my mobile phone.


----------



## drewbadour (Sep 2, 2022)

Expansion said:


> Well, since I couldn't get my hands on SHE3800 replacements, at some point I ended up buying Vido's, already have 3 pairs of these too.
> Vido's cable starts to become rock solid hardened after a while.
> 
> I like the sound signature of the SHE3800 more, it's darker, less brightness and I think there's also something extra in the midbass.
> ...


If you didn't like the Qian39 because it was too bright, you could try the X6 which will be warmer/darker and meatier for around $10 - but it comes at the cost of a tiny bit of clarity.

I haven't tried anything in between the 5-10$ range until $50 but RikudouGoku's buds are a safe bet at $50 (and an absolute steal)!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Expansion said:


> Well, since I couldn't get my hands on SHE3800 replacements, at some point I ended up buying Vido's, already have 3 pairs of these too.
> Vido's cable starts to become rock solid hardened after a while.
> 
> I like the sound signature of the SHE3800 more, it's darker, less brightness and I think there's also something extra in the midbass.
> ...



Under $20 you have some great options like the Toneking TP16, FAAEAL Rosemarys, my new personal favorites the NSC Audio 80ohm LCPs, and tons more. Can you describe your musical or tuning tastes so I can narrow down my suggestions?


----------



## ttorbic

drewbadour said:


> Of the limited number of buds I've tried, the FF3 has some of the most phenomenal stage and imaging!
> 
> 
> Likely Vido!


Interesting, do you think that the FF3 has bigger staging than the Serratus?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

tendou said:


> Should I get them with cable? Their cable with mic is good or there are better choice for the difference of 8 usd?



BTW, I'm stoked that I'll finally have someone else's opinion on these NSC 80s! I hope you like them as much as I do.


----------



## waynes world

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I saw them on the tour of the west coast in the US that they did in support of New Levels and I have seen them one more since then at a festival my band played that Polyphia played as well. I don't know if they did anything special or consciously to make G.O.A.T. creepy. I just really dig the sound they have put together and thought it's unique composition sounded cool on the FF3s so I posted it. I had no idea it would inspire this much conversation, but I'm really happy that it did  and I'm glad you guys enjoy it.😎🤘



They would be awesome to see live. Incredibly tight and talented. Kinda makes me think of a modern day King Crimson, with a modern day Fripp and Levin going wild lol


----------



## samandhi (Sep 1, 2022)

Expansion said:


> Well, since I couldn't get my hands on SHE3800 replacements, at some point I ended up buying Vido's, already have 3 pairs of these too.
> Vido's cable starts to become rock solid hardened after a while.
> 
> I like the sound signature of the SHE3800 more, it's darker, less brightness and I think there's also something extra in the midbass.
> ...





JAnonymous5150 said:


> Did you have a budget in mind for these buds?





JAnonymous5150 said:


> Under $20 you have some great options like the Toneking TP16, FAAEAL Rosemarys, my new personal favorites the NSC Audio 80ohm LCPs, and tons more. Can you describe your musical or tuning tastes so I can narrow down my suggestions?


Rather than guessing your needs, and be all over the map, and in order to better serve your needs (and wallet), it might be easier if you simply answered these questions. This will allow the good great people here to (better) help you. 



WoodyLuvr said:


> *'THE CHECKLIST' FOR FLATHEAD EARBUD RECOMMENDATION REQUESTS*
> For those looking for a flathead-earbud recommendation from the *Earbuds Round-Up* thread gang, the following data is extremely helpful:
> 
> *budget* _(what are you willing/looking to spend? e.g. price range)_
> ...


----------



## samandhi (Sep 1, 2022)

If anyone is looking for something that may or may not have been noticed by you (as of yet) that sounds pretty amazing with any buds (fantastic production value here), I might suggest SubLunar (and their Bandcamp page here). They are a great (mostly) prog-rock band out of Poland. I bought their first (and only) album and found it a fantastic listen and wrote to tell them so. Their reply (at that time) was that they planned on making more, but were pretty hampered by the COVID pandemic, and would be getting back into full swing once things opened back up. So, I hope to expect something new from them very soon. This quote (from their official site) sums up their music pretty well IMHO:


> They play rock music in their own manner, without succumbing to fads or trends. The result is a mix of melancholic melodies and occasional outbursts of polyrhythmic aggression.



Amazon Music:
https://music.amazon.com/albums/B07SKM4F9X?ref=dm_sh_cc1c-0324-165c-a1c7-e5f83

Youtube (full album):


Edit: They quite make me think of a great mashup of Tool and Candlebox in many ways (which is a great thing IMO).


----------



## o0genesis0o (Sep 1, 2022)

New toys have arrived  

The ear buds are called Nicehck YD30. If you like midrange and don't like bass, this one is for you. It sounds like an IEM from Moondrop or Tanchjim (natural, kind of lean, forward upper midrange). The technical performance is at most Moondrop Aria level (3/5). Soundstage is spacious but not well layered like FF3. The bass is there but weak and unremarkable, not textured like FF3. In summary, YD30 is surprising for its price, showing that good sound does not have to expensive if you don't need isolation. However, it does not hold a candle against FF3.

The MX500 shell is so stable and comfortable comparing to FF3 shell though.

Edit: I can see why some folks mentioned that they can even play frisbee wearing ear buds. There MX500 shells fit me like a glove. They are so light, so they disappear in the ears, leaving just the sound behind. Can't wait to hear better implemented ear buds with MX500 shell.

Edit 2: Removing the foam noticeably improves the perceived resolution. The true resolution seems to stay the same. 

Edit 3: The lower and upper midrange is not quite balanced like FF3. Songs that focus on upper midrange (female vocal songs) are louder than pieces with more lower midrange energy (cello suites). So I need to adjust volume constantly between songs. Bass is snappy but just small. The whole signature reminds me of ER2SE somehow.


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Under $20 you have some great options like the Toneking TP16, FAAEAL Rosemarys, my new personal favorites the NSC Audio 80ohm LCPs, and tons more. Can you describe your musical or tuning tastes so I can narrow down my suggestions?


The NSC drivers were more than $20 a year ago.  So that’s a great deal!


----------



## qua2k (Sep 1, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Thanks for the size comparison! I guess whenever I see a DAP, I think of the Fiio M11plus and A&K SR25, thicc chunky bois.
> 
> The "not the most logical" is about the longevity vs costs of these things. Essentially, I'm buying an old Android phone + DAC/AMP at the same time when I buy an Android DAP. If the battery of this thing dies or the OS is too outdated that it is insecure and incompatible with streaming apps, it would be really a brick. So, in some sense, a phone + a battery powered DAC (I mean the big powerful ones like iFi Gryphon, not the dongle that is limited by the power supply of the phone) is the most logical and cost effective solution for serious portable sound. At least that's how I convince myself not to drop AUD $1000 on a DAP
> 
> ...


Your points against an Android DAP is shared and exactly the main reason, among others but this one being #1, was the reason I went with a Lotoo DAP.


----------



## Ronion (Sep 1, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> New toys have arrived
> 
> The ear buds are called Nicehck YD30. If you like midrange and don't like bass, this one is for you. It sounds like an IEM from Moondrop or Tanchjim (natural, kind of lean, forward upper midrange). The technical performance is at most Moondrop Aria level (3/5). Soundstage is spacious but not well layered like FF3. The bass is there but weak and unremarkable, not textured like FF3. In summary, YD30 is surprising for its price, showing that good sound does not have to expensive if you don't need isolation. However, it does not hold a candle against FF3.
> 
> ...


Don’t give up on those FF3 shells.  Mine fit well from the start, but once the foams soften up (about 1 week if worn 1hr/day) they fit like a glove.  Nevermind, I just saw who wrote this.  You’ve had them long enough that if they don’t work well for you, they just aren’t going to.  Sorry bro.  These things fit me so well. The MX500 are generally considered middle of the road for comfort.  Try a Bud in a PK, Docomo, or Lite shell.  Those are the real crowd pleasers.  There are definitely good reasons those MX500 remain a popular shell.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Don’t give up on those FF3 shells.  Mine fit well from the start, but once the foams soften up (about 1 week if worn 1hr/day) they fit like a glove.  Nevermind, I just saw who wrote this.  You’ve had them long enough that if they don’t work well for you, they just aren’t going to.  Sorry bro.  These things fit me so well. The MX500 are generally considered middle of the road for comfort.  Try a Bud in a PK, Docomo, or Lite shell.  Those are the real crowd pleasers.  There are definitely good reasons those MX500 remain a popular shell.


Agreed! My FF3 actually fit better than any of my other types of shells that I have tried thus far (and by far). The MX500 do fit, but I get a bit of an unstable fit in the right ear with them (nothing deal breaking of course though).


----------



## drewbadour

ttorbic said:


> Interesting, do you think that the FF3 has bigger staging than the Serratus?


Honestly yes! FF3 stage is anomalous tbh. Serratus is good but not quite as wide as ff3


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 1, 2022)

qua2k said:


> Your points against an Android DAP is shared and exactly the main reason, among others but this one being #1, was the reason I went with a Lotoo DAP.



Despite just getting the Cayin N8ii, I am also about to start demoing some non-Android DAPs. However, much like @samandhi said, if you're like us and you don't do anything but music with your DAP and you have the skills to do battery replacement and simple repairs/upgrades (and even custom ROM flashing should the need arise), an android DAP is quite capable of lasting you for as long as you'd like to keep using it really and the security issue becomes essentially a non-issue. If you're just going to use it for local playback, which is at least 75% of what I do with mine anyways, then you're good to use whatever DAP you prefer.

I am cruising various used market places for non android DAPs with a retro feel to try and maybe collect (lol I have a problem)  just because I have found since purchasing my little H2 that I really like them and you can find so many potentially great players with so many DAC chip and OPAmp options for pretty darn cheap. That said, having a DAP with all the bells and whistles can be pretty damn cool if I do say so myself and it's the closest you can get to carrying around desktop rig capabilities currently IMO.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> Don’t give up on those FF3 shells.  Mine fit well from the start, but once the foams soften up (about 1 week if worn 1hr/day) they fit like a glove.  Nevermind, I just saw who wrote this.  You’ve had them long enough that if they don’t work well for you, they just aren’t going to.  Sorry bro.  These things fit me so well. The MX500 are generally considered middle of the road for comfort.  Try a Bud in a PK, Docomo, or Lite shell.  Those are the real crowd pleasers.  There are definitely good reasons those MX500 remain a popular shell.


FF3 works just fine, as long as I don't move around much. MX500 shells fit even if I walk around, even jumping around. That's the most surprising part to me. Can't wait for my MX500 shells to arrive so that I can DIY some buds. I bought the 64 ohm titanium drivers and "150 ohm bass speakers". I also bought a pair of metal shells for the titanium drivers. Can't wait to try.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Despite just getting the Cayin N8ii, I am also about to start demoing some non-Android DAPs. However, much like @samandhi said, you're like us and you don't do anything but music with your DAP and you have the skills to do battery replacement and simple repairs/upgrades (and even custom ROM flashing should the need arise), an android DAP is quite capable of lasting you for as long as you'd like to keep using it really and the security issue becomes essentially a non-issue. If you're just going to use it for local playback, which is at least 75% of what I do with mine anyways, then you're good to use whatever DAP you prefer.
> 
> I am cruising various used market places for non android DAPs with a retro feel to try and maybe collect (lol I have a problem)  just because I have found since purchasing my little H2 that I really like them and you can find so many potentially great players with so many DAC chip and OPAmp options for pretty darn cheap. That said, having a DAP with all the bells and whistles can be pretty damn cool if I do say so myself and it's the closest you can get to carrying around desktop rig capabilities currently IMO.


Well said!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> Don’t give up on those FF3 shells.  Mine fit well from the start, but once the foams soften up (about 1 week if worn 1hr/day) they fit like a glove.  Nevermind, I just saw who wrote this.  You’ve had them long enough that if they don’t work well for you, they just aren’t going to.  Sorry bro.  These things fit me so well. The MX500 are generally considered middle of the road for comfort.  Try a Bud in a PK, Docomo, or Lite shell.  Those are the real crowd pleasers.  There are definitely good reasons those MX500 remain a popular shell.



IKR! The FF3s fit me like a glove. I can literally headbang and shake my head back and forth pretty hard with next to no movement. You have a good point about why MX500 shells have remained ao popular. I think a lot of people tend to overlook just how versatile they can be. I personally find the PK shells to be most comfy of the classic shell shapes, followed by MX500, and then Docomo. I haven't tried anything with a Lite shell yet. Do you have a recommendation for a Lite shell based bud I should try?


----------



## qua2k

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Despite just getting the Cayin N8ii, I am also about to start demoing some non-Android DAPs. However, much like @samandhi said, you're like us and you don't do anything but music with your DAP and you have the skills to do battery replacement and simple repairs/upgrades (and even custom ROM flashing should the need arise), an android DAP is quite capable of lasting you for as long as you'd like to keep using it really and the security issue becomes essentially a non-issue. *If you're just going to use it for local playback, which is at least 75% of what I do with mine anyways, then you're good to use whatever DAP you prefer*.
> 
> I am cruising various used market places for non android DAPs with a retro feel to try and maybe collect (lol I have a problem)  just because I have found since purchasing my little H2 that I really like them and you can find so many potentially great players with so many DAC chip and OPAmp options for pretty darn cheap. That said, having a DAP with all the bells and whistles can be pretty damn cool if I do say so myself and it's the closest you can get to carrying around desktop rig capabilities currently IMO.


Yes, very well said. The only asterisk I would add to the bolded is power output. Some DAPs, even with a 4.4 balanced output, would not be sufficient on its own with high driver IEMs or TOTL headphones.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I am cruising various used market places for non android DAPs with a retro feel to try and maybe collect (lol I have a problem) just because I have found since purchasing my little H2 that I really like them and you can find so many potentially great players with so many DAC chip and OPAmp options for pretty darn cheap.


You should give a look at the Shannling M0 then. Surprisingly it has MANY of the TOTL features in a super tiny (albeit less powerful) and SUPER cheap DAP... I am thinking about getting one for my wife.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Sep 1, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Despite just getting the Cayin N8ii, I am also about to start demoing some non-Android DAPs. However, much like @samandhi said, if you're like us and you don't do anything but music with your DAP and you have the skills to do battery replacement and simple repairs/upgrades (and even custom ROM flashing should the need arise), an android DAP is quite capable of lasting you for as long as you'd like to keep using it really and the security issue becomes essentially a non-issue. If you're just going to use it for local playback, which is at least 75% of what I do with mine anyways, then you're good to use whatever DAP you prefer.
> 
> I am cruising various used market places for non android DAPs with a retro feel to try and maybe collect (lol I have a problem)  just because I have found since purchasing my little H2 that I really like them and you can find so many potentially great players with so many DAC chip and OPAmp options for pretty darn cheap. That said, having a DAP with all the bells and whistles can be pretty damn cool if I do say so myself and it's the closest you can get to carrying around desktop rig capabilities currently IMO.



I just want clean and powerful amp, the ability to play FLAC music files, and no janky USB cables. After hearing FF3 on M11plus via 4.4mm, there is no going back. I still can't believe that there would be a day when I say "sources are different"  

I better not try rolling cables. Those are freaking expensive.

Edit: @JAnonymous5150 Hidizs AP80 Pro X is a cute little DAP that is quite capable, especially via balanced output. Everything is clean and clear. I want more power though.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> You should give a look at the Shannling M0 then. Surprisingly it has MANY of the TOTL features in a super tiny (albeit less powerful) and SUPER cheap DAP... I am thinking about getting one for my wife.



It's on my radar, but ATM I think I'm gonna start with non-touchscreen players that have kinda retro button and clickwheel type layouts. The M0 does look like a cool little DAP packed with tons of features so I wouldn't be surprised if I do end up buying one. I have a Fiio X3 Gen 2 on the way that I got for peanuts and I just sent an offer on a Dethonray DTR-1 that's selling for a great price used because it's just such a killer looking, back-to-the-future-esque DAP. I hope the dude bites!


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 1, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> I just want clean and powerful amp, the ability to play FLAC music files, and no janky USB cables. After hearing FF3 on M11plus via 4.4mm, there is no going back. I still can't believe that there would be a day when I say "sources are different"
> 
> I better not try rolling cables. Those are freaking expensive.
> 
> Edit: @JAnonymous5150 Hidizs AP80 Pro X is a cute little DAP that is quite capable, especially via balanced output. Everything is clean and clear. I want more power though.



Sources sound different to me, but cables, as long as they are good quality and relatively low resistance, don't to me. For instance, a quality ofc copper cable doesn't sound different to a quality silver plated cable to me. However, when I replaced Etymotic's horrible stock cable that measured with pretty high resistance with a quality 8 core OFC that measured much lower I did seem to get a much more full sound out of my ER4XRs. Regardless, I only change cables for ease of use or cosmetic reasons and I never change cables expecting a sonic difference. I always listen for one just in case though lol! 😂

Edit: Changed "fuller" to "much more full" because I can speak English...I swear!


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> It's on my radar, but ATM I think I'm gonna start with non-touchscreen players that have kinda retro button and clickwheel type layouts. The M0 does look like a cool little DAP packed with tons of features so I wouldn't be surprised if I do end up buying one. I have a Fiio X3 Gen 2 on the way that I got for peanuts and I just sent an offer on a Dethonray DTR-1 that's selling for a great price used because it's just such a killer looking, back-to-the-future-esque DAP. I hope the dude bites!


Great choice for a non-touch, non-android system! I have the X3II and can say that as long as you don't have a large library, it is fantastic (on sound alone)! Though The OG X5 (pictured below, FiiO E17K portable amp) was quite a bit better IMO, but with the same problems with library size, and or navigation being tough with said large library. 


Spoiler: FiiO X5 > FiiO E17K amp > DUNU DK2001


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Great choice for a non-touch, non-android system! I have the X3II and can say that as long as you don't have a large library, it is fantastic (on sound alone)! Though The OG X5 (pictured below, FiiO E17K portable amp) was quite a bit better IMO, but with the same problems with library size, and or navigation being tough with said large library.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: FiiO X5 > FiiO E17K amp > DUNU DK2001



I got the X3 Gen II in like new condition for $40 off of FB Marketplace. The seller said she used it for maybe 20 hours tops and always while studying at home. I couldn't pass that up!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

I am listening to Delta Kream by The Black Keys on the Ucotech ES-P1s plugged into my Cayin N8ii and these buds are just something special! They sound like you're listening to very good pair of full sized headphones withbthe comfort and feel of earbuds. Everytime I listen to a great album with these bad boys on I am reminded of just how awesome they are. The ES-P1s are definitely my favorite pair of buds.


----------



## baskingshark

o0genesis0o said:


> I just want clean and powerful amp, the ability to play FLAC music files, and no janky USB cables. After hearing FF3 on M11plus via 4.4mm, there is no going back. I still can't believe that there would be a day when I say "sources are different"
> 
> I better not try rolling cables. Those are freaking expensive.
> 
> Edit: @JAnonymous5150 Hidizs AP80 Pro X is a cute little DAP that is quite capable, especially via balanced output. Everything is clean and clear. I want more power though.



Haha bro looks like you have entered the amp rabbit hole. Ya one can't unhear stuff that is heard on a well driven source (for low sensitivity/high impedance) gear, compared to using it on a weak source. It is not about volume, but you lose dynamics and tightness of the bass, perhaps soundstage and clarity if you are pairing a too weak source with some of these demanding transducers.

So how does your Final E5000 scale with balanced? BTW most dongles and portable sources can't drive the Final E5000 well.


----------



## samandhi (Sep 2, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I got the X3 Gen II in like new condition for $40 off of FB Marketplace. The seller said she used it for maybe 20 hours tops and always while studying at home. I couldn't pass that up!


That is a really good deal. Even if the battery is done in it, there are 4 screws on the back that allow you to simply and easily change the battery. If you REALLY felt like doing some DIY, you could see if you could add a bigger (mAH) battery, and maybe even check to see if you could maybe add some opamps or something (though I kind of doubt it, lacking any space).

On the note of trying new DAPs, I went ahead and ordered the Shanling M0. And as @baskingshark has informed us, the Smabat M4, and all the modules are 40% off right now (today the 2nd only), so I went ahead and got the M4 ($46), the SO 100ohm fiber ($27), and 150Ti ($15) drivers.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> That is a really good deal. Even if the battery is done in it, there are 4 screws on the back that allow you to simply and easily change the battery. If you REALLY felt like doing some DIY, you could see if you could add a bigger (mAH) battery, and maybe even check to see if you could maybe add some opamps or something (though I kind of doubt it, lacking any space).
> 
> On the note of trying new DAPs, I went ahead and ordered the Shanling M0. And as @baskingshark has informed us, the Smabat M4, and all the modules are 40% off right now (today the 2nd only), so I went ahead and got the M4 ($46), the SO 100ohm fiber ($27), and 150Ti ($15) drivers.



Nice! My Super Ones, M4s and drivers have been chillin' at customs for like 2 days now! I also have my friend's M2s here so I can try them side by side with the M4 to see if I like them better since they get such high praise around here. I'm not gonna try the M2s until the M4 shows up, though.


----------



## qua2k

JAnonymous5150 said:


> It's on my radar, but ATM I think I'm gonna start with non-touchscreen players that have kinda retro button and clickwheel type layouts. The M0 does look like a cool little DAP packed with tons of features so I wouldn't be surprised if I do end up buying one. I have a Fiio X3 Gen 2 on the way that I got for peanuts and I just sent an offer on a Dethonray DTR-1 that's selling for a great price used because it's just such a killer looking, back-to-the-future-esque DAP. I hope the dude bites!


Not to continue to be on the Lotoo bandwagon but Lotoo PAW 5000 MKII


----------



## samandhi (Sep 2, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Nice! My Super Ones, M4s and drivers have been chillin' at customs for like 2 days now! I also have my friend's M2s here so I can try them side by side with the M4 to see if I like them better since they get such high praise around here. I'm not gonna try the M2s until the M4 shows up, though.


It should be interesting, since they have the same stock driver in them (AFAIK). I assume you still have the stock (40Ti) driver in it? I will also be able to audition them adding into the mix the ST10S B&G (150ohm Ti). I wasn't going to pull the trigger on the M4 until I heard impressions, and thought they would be different enough to the M2s Pro. But, since they were so cheap, I simply couldn't resist. Other than only being SE, the cable and carry case look to be worth the price alone.. LOL

Edit: Also, which drivers did you order for the M4?


----------



## baskingshark

samandhi said:


> That is a really good deal. Even if the battery is done in it, there are 4 screws on the back that allow you to simply and easily change the battery. If you REALLY felt like doing some DIY, you could see if you could add a bigger (mAH) battery, and maybe even check to see if you could maybe add some opamps or something (though I kind of doubt it, lacking any space).
> 
> On the note of trying new DAPs, I went ahead and ordered the Shanling M0. And as @baskingshark has informed us, the Smabat M4, and all the modules are 40% off right now (today the 2nd only), so I went ahead and got the M4 ($46), the SO 100ohm fiber ($27), and 150Ti ($15) drivers.



Look forward to your impressions man! 15 bucks for the 150 titanium drivers is insane!

I was really tempted to get the M4 and drivers, but after getting burned by the ST20 Pro, I am gonna wait a bit. Actually a bigger factor is getting them past the death glare of the wife LOLOL.


----------



## syazwaned

baskingshark said:


> Look forward to your impressions man! 15 bucks for the 150 titanium drivers is insane!
> 
> I was really tempted to get the M4 and drivers, but after getting burned by the ST20 Pro, I am gonna wait a bit. Actually a bigger factor is getting them past the death glare of the wife LOLOL.



Buy now, apologize later 🤣


Speaking of DAP, has anyone listen to PCM  D100? It is one of the most musical DAP I ever heard


----------



## JAnonymous5150

qua2k said:


> Not to continue to be on the Lotoo bandwagon but Lotoo PAW 5000 MKII



I'm adding it to the list of DAPs to keep an eye out for. I like it!


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> IKR! The FF3s fit me like a glove. I can literally headbang and shake my head back and forth pretty hard with next to no movement. You have a good point about why MX500 shells have remained ao popular. I think a lot of people tend to overlook just how versatile they can be. I personally find the PK shells to be most comfy of the classic shell shapes, followed by MX500, and then Docomo. I haven't tried anything with a Lite shell yet. Do you have a recommendation for a Lite shell based bud I should try?


Unfortunately I don’t know of one that’s worth owning, but the shell is COMFY.  Ihave the Zen Lite and I think it is likely the best one, but on the grand scheme of my buds it is below average.  It’s warm and midcentric.  No highs, no lows, but it’s not a Bose.


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> Look forward to your impressions man! 15 bucks for the 150 titanium drivers is insane!
> 
> I was really tempted to get the M4 and drivers, but after getting burned by the ST20 Pro, I am gonna wait a bit. Actually a bigger factor is getting them past the death glare of the wife LOLOL.


Yes, it seemed like a great deal to me as well. I thought about getting the ST20 Pro drivers also, but after hearing about the "ice pick" nature that @Ronion has informed us of, I decided I actually like my ears...  I also considered getting the filters, but I don't know which one comes with the M4 stock to begin with. If it is type 1 (which tempers the presence region the most, according to Smabat), then it would be pointless for me to get them as I NEVER want to add MORE to anything Smabat... LOL 

I don't blame you on that one, but it seems as though they would sound more like the M2s Pro more than the ST20 Pro (though I could be completely off base here, I dunno')?!

Oh, your right about that, especially after she has seen how much my collection has grown. I told her I was done getting new ones until I got rid of some (which I did intend, but you know.... ). If none of you ever hear from me again, I wish you all, all the luck in the world hoarding buying new ones without the wives/significant others finding out.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> It should be interesting, since they have the same stock driver in them (AFAIK). I assume you still have the stock (40Ti) driver in it? I will also be able to audition them adding into the mix the ST10S B&G (150ohm Ti). I wasn't going to pull the trigger on the M4 until I heard impressions, and thought they would be different enough to the M2s Pro. But, since they were so cheap, I simply couldn't resist. Other than only being SE, the cable and carry case look to be worth the price alone.. LOL
> 
> Edit: Also, which drivers did you order for the M4?



I ordered all 4 that the AE smabat store had in stock: the ST20 (50ohm), ST20 Pro (100ohm), Super One (100ohm), and the ST10 (150ohm). I figured I'll most likely end up keeping some version of Smabat's modular stuff that they'll be useful in and if not I can sell them or use the drivers I like in DIY stuff.


----------



## samandhi

syazwaned said:


> Buy now, apologize later 🤣
> 
> 
> Speaking of DAP, has anyone listen to PCM  D100? It is one of the most musical DAP I ever heard


LOL What is that saying? Better to ask for forgiveness than for permission?!

Oh, man! That looks like some whacky oscilloscope or (portable) fish finder or something way out there. But I like it, nonetheless.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> but it’s not a Bose.



It can't be good if that's your best comment lol!


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> It can't be good if that's your best comment lol!


Yeah, it’s just okay, but it is great for sleeping on your side.  That’s the best I can say about it and “I’ve heard worse”.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I ordered all 4 that the AE smabat store had in stock: the ST20 (50ohm), ST20 Pro (100ohm), Super One (100ohm), and the ST10 (150ohm). I figured I'll most likely end up keeping some version of Smabat's modular stuff that they'll be useful in and if not I can sell them or use the drivers I like in DIY stuff.


Nice! I think the ST20 is actually a 40ohm driver (at least according to the Smabat store). 

Well, I can tell you from experience that the 150Ti is FANTASTIC in DIY! The 40LCP is also really good too (just not AS good). But as stock tuning and in the M2s Pro, I think (just by a tick's hair) that the SO 100 bio sounds best to my ears.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> New toys have arrived
> 
> The ear buds are called Nicehck YD30. If you like midrange and don't like bass, this one is for you. It sounds like an IEM from Moondrop or Tanchjim (natural, kind of lean, forward upper midrange). The technical performance is at most Moondrop Aria level (3/5). Soundstage is spacious but not well layered like FF3. The bass is there but weak and unremarkable, not textured like FF3. In summary, YD30 is surprising for its price, showing that good sound does not have to expensive if you don't need isolation. However, it does not hold a candle against FF3.
> 
> ...


BTW! Looking your picture, I have NO idea how you got your FF3 cable to stay that way (hairspray, model glue, paste, all the above???)?!


----------



## jeejack (Sep 2, 2022)

samandhi said:


> I got my new buds from @FranQL. WOW! I have to say that both @Ronion and @FranQL were right. The Smabat 150Ti has some serious potential. @ FranQL has outdone himself on these. The tuning is similar to the FQL Blackhole Redux (with some positive tweaks), but the technicalities and acoustics are on a whole new level IMHO. I was just listening to them, and I heard a sound from the left side and because the dynamics are so good, and the staging is SO wide, I thought it was actually coming from outside my house. I felt pretty stupid when I actually got up to go look... LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: FQL Grand Finale


Totally agree! Do DIY buds rise to the level of expensive pre-made buds? In the photo is my ST10s 150 ohm drivers


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Nice! I think the ST20 is actually a 40ohm driver (at least according to the Smabat store).
> 
> Well, I can tell you from experience that the 150Ti is FANTASTIC in DIY! The 40LCP is also really good too (just not AS good). But as stock tuning and in the M2s Pro, I think (just by a tick's hair) that the SO 100 bio sounds best to my ears.



I'm looking at my order and at the AE smabat store and they have the ST20 listed at 50ohms when you order it. I'll have to check elsewhere now to make sure. Thanks for complicating stuff, bro! 😉


----------



## samandhi (Sep 2, 2022)

jeejack said:


> Totally agree! Do DIY buds rise to the level of expensive pre-made buds. In the photo is my ST10s 150 ohm drivers


One word. Absolutely! And those are great looking too!  Also,VERY cool looking vent/filter. 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> I'm looking at my order and at the AE smabat store and they have the ST20 listed at 50ohms when you order it. I'll have to check elsewhere now to make sure. Thanks for complicating stuff, bro! 😉


Well, I'm always here to help... 

Here is what I see from the Smabat store page on AE (though we know being translated to English, sometimes they aren't consistant in their information):


----------



## jeejack

samandhi said:


> One word. Absolutely! And those are great looking too!


Thank you ! 😉🍻


----------



## samandhi

jeejack said:


> Thank you ! 😉🍻


You might have missed my edit to that post, but I also added that I really like the custom vent/dampening filter. Given the (sub) bass levels that the 150Ti can reach, I'll bet that vent allows for some really deep sub bass?!


----------



## samandhi

WOW! Shanling is on the ball. I just ordered the M0, and within 1 hour (actually a bit less), it has already shipped. Guess I'll be getting the M0, and the M4 and drivers separately. I'm OK with that!


----------



## o0genesis0o

baskingshark said:


> Haha bro looks like you have entered the amp rabbit hole. Ya one can't unhear stuff that is heard on a well driven source (for low sensitivity/high impedance) gear, compared to using it on a weak source. It is not about volume, but you lose dynamics and tightness of the bass, perhaps soundstage and clarity if you are pairing a too weak source with some of these demanding transducers.
> 
> So how does your Final E5000 scale with balanced? BTW most dongles and portable sources can't drive the Final E5000 well.



I haven't got any balanced cable for E5000. However, just 30 seconds with Fiio M11 plus (high-gain, nearly 60/100, and I don't listen loudly, I mean what the heck?), I know immediately that I want a better amp in my collection. So different. 

Since E5000 has such low impedance, I wonder whether balanced output (more voltage) would help much, This thing seems to love current. 



JAnonymous5150 said:


> I ordered all 4 that the AE smabat store had in stock: the ST20 (50ohm), ST20 Pro (100ohm), Super One (100ohm), and the ST10 (150ohm). I figured I'll most likely end up keeping some version of Smabat's modular stuff that they'll be useful in and if not I can sell them or use the drivers I like in DIY stuff.












samandhi said:


> BTW! Looking your picture, I have NO idea how you got your FF3 cable to stay that way (hairspray, model glue, paste, all the above???)?!



I use roadie wrap technique. Work like a charm with anything, except the crappy cable from Westone MACH 10 and 20 and Moondrop Chu.


----------



## samandhi (Sep 2, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> I haven't got any balanced cable for E5000. However, just 30 seconds with Fiio M11 plus (high-gain, nearly 60/100, and I don't listen loudly, I mean what the heck?), I know immediately that I want a better amp in my collection. So different.
> 
> Since E5000 has such low impedance, I wonder whether balanced output (more voltage) would help much, This thing seems to love current.


Oh yes, they will definitely benefit from having more power. They might be low impedance, but are also very (un)efficient @93dB/mW. I could not find the SE specs of the M11+, but the balanced (2.5mm and 4.4mm) outputs can do 600mW @32ohms (which is more than plenty.

For those earphones you only need (to reach 110dBSPL):


51mW
.84Vrms
60.4mA
And that DAP can give:


600mW
4.382Vrms
136mA
I would say just get you a balanced cable...


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> Oh yes, they will definitely benefit from having more power. They might be low impedance, but are also very (un)efficient @93dB/mW. I could not find the SE specs of the M11+, but the balanced (2.5mm and 4.4mm) outputs can do 600mW @32ohms (which is more than plenty.
> 
> For those earphones you only need (to reach 110dBSPL):
> 
> ...


Already ordered one. I also ordered VE megatron as well. Still no courage to pull the trigger on M11 plus


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Already ordered one. I also ordered VE megatron as well. Still no courage to pull the trigger on M11 plus


Awesome! You'll have to share your impressions with your buds, once you have had some time on them?!


----------



## baskingshark

samandhi said:


> WOW! Shanling is on the ball. I just ordered the M0, and within 1 hour (actually a bit less), it has already shipped. Guess I'll be getting the M0, and the M4 and drivers separately. I'm OK with that!



I had the M0 previously, quite a nice little DAP. Great battery life, neutralish, quite user friendly and good sound. One of the best budget DAPs. Shanling still releases updates for their DAPs sometimes 2 years later, unlike some other companies which dump DAPs and then move on to sell another one without any further updates/support.

If there's one small thing to nitpick on the M0, it perhaps can't drive demanding buds/cans, it is more for efficient gear per se.


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> Awesome! You'll have to share your impressions with your buds, once you have had some time on them?!



Definitely. I'll try to get my hands on M11+ or the upcoming M11S for comparison as well. I got this one to prepare for my 150ohm DIY.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Already ordered one. I also ordered VE megatron as well. Still no courage to pull the trigger on M11 plus



Awesome! I have a Megatron on the way as well. It just seems like too cool of a combo to not pull the trigger at $50, you know what I mean? When I tried an acquaintance's Megatron with my ES-P1s the setup sounded magnificent so I literally jumped on my phone and ordered one for myself right then and there.


----------



## tendou

JAnonymous5150 said:


> BTW, I'm stoked that I'll finally have someone else's opinion on these NSC 80s! I hope you like them as much as I do.


I ordered them.  Not sure how long will it takes to arrive.

Btw I read some complain on fiio's modular cable quality. Hope fiio takes action on this.


----------



## madeyasay

o0genesis0o said:


> The MX500 shell is so stable and comfortable comparing to FF3 shell though.
> 
> Edit: I can see why some folks mentioned that they can even play frisbee wearing ear buds. There MX500 shells fit me like a glove. They are so light, so they disappear in the ears, leaving just the sound behind. Can't wait to hear better implemented ear buds with MX500 shell.


Same here. They sound amazing but I've actually returned my FF3 because the fit just wasn't right for me and I know I'd be too bothered and frustrated by it. 
Meanwhile MX500 and PK fit perfectly so I'm also looking to get something good in those shells.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

tendou said:


> I ordered them.  Not sure how long will it takes to arrive.
> 
> Btw I read some complain on fiio's modular cable quality. Hope fiio takes action on this.



What were the complaints? I have found the modulaar tips on the FF3 to be quite well made so far. Though, I would imagine that, as with any product, when you add a new possible point of failure you will inevitably have some units that do in fact fail there and complaints to go with it.


----------



## chavez

TRN slided this into my DM's on aliexpress.








They will be available next week. 👀


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> I had the M0 previously, quite a nice little DAP. Great battery life, neutralish, quite user friendly and good sound. One of the best budget DAPs. Shanling still releases updates for their DAPs sometimes 2 years later, unlike some other companies which dump DAPs and then move on to sell another one without any further updates/support.
> 
> If there's one small thing to nitpick on the M0, it perhaps can't drive demanding buds/cans, it is more for efficient gear per se.


Thanks for sharing that information! 

I really bought it for my wife (though I will have to play with it some) and I knew that it only put out something like 80mW @32ohms. But for what you get for $100, I just had to see how good/bad it was. She only has one set of earphones, and one set of headphones, and both are under the power cap, so we're good there. 

She is currently using (still) an iPod Nano which is very limited in storage (fixed at 32GB). This one says it takes 512, but I would bet that a 1TB would work in it as well (we'll see). 

What made you get rid of it? Driving power (or the lack thereof)?


----------



## tendou

JAnonymous5150 said:


> What were the complaints? I have found the modulaar tips on the FF3 to be quite well made so far. Though, I would imagine that, as with any product, when you add a new possible point of failure you will inevitably have some units that do in fact fail there and complaints to go with it.


One person bust one side of their ff3 driver because incorrectly connecting the balanced connector from the lack of manual or unintuitive design. Another one get an oxidized plug fresh out from the box. They return it first time and received a replacement from fiio but it's also oxidized. 
Other did complain that the recent fiio plug is of lesser quality compared to old one. They complain about it in facebook group.


----------



## baskingshark

samandhi said:


> Thanks for sharing that information!
> 
> I really bought it for my wife (though I will have to play with it some) and I knew that it only put out something like 80mW @32ohms. But for what you get for $100, I just had to see how good/bad it was. She only has one set of earphones, and one set of headphones, and both are under the power cap, so we're good there.
> 
> ...



Yeah the M0 was quite good other than the lack of power for more demanding gear, so on the go, I currently prefer dongles like the Questyle M15 or Colorfly CDA M1, which are way more powerful, and have balanced outputs (which the M0 doesn't have). The M0 is a good budget DAP for beginners, don't get me wrong, but once you delve deeper into the rabbithole of audio, argg, the demands for moarrrrrrrr power from the source rears its ugly head, and I was kind of limited with what gear I could pair with the M0.


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> Yeah the M0 was quite good other than the lack of power for more demanding gear, so on the go, I currently prefer dongles like the Questyle M15 or Colorfly CDA M1, which are way more powerful, and have balanced outputs (which the M0 doesn't have). The M0 is a good budget DAP for beginners, don't get me wrong, but once you delve deeper into the rabbithole of audio, argg, the demands for moarrrrrrrr power from the source rears its ugly head, and I was kind of limited with what gear I could pair with the M0.


Understandable, for sure! I know the feeling of delving deeper though. Fortunately for me, I have finished with the kilobuck sources (for now). Meaning that I am satisfied (rather than not being able to find something).


----------



## koniotaur

chavez said:


> TRN slided this into my DM's on aliexpress.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Given how much I like one of my TRN EMA I might hop onto it...


----------



## BCool

Has anyone found a cheap-ish lightweight cable? A lot of these braided ones are nice for IEMs but they're heavy and pull on my ears when used on buds.


----------



## samandhi

koniotaur said:


> Given how much I like one of my TRN EMA I might hop onto it...


I have been looking for information about these, and can't seem to find anything (official or otherwise) thus far. 


BCool said:


> Has anyone found a cheap-ish lightweight cable? A lot of these braided ones are nice for IEMs but they're heavy and pull on my ears when used on buds.


I would also love to hear about this. I would rather have a 4core cable with fabric or kevlar or something soft as an outer coating (something like the M2s Pro super lightweight and soft cable), twisted rather than braided for size (diameter), again like the M2s Pro. I have tried contacting Smabat about ordering a replacement cable, and rather than helping me out, they simply directed me to the product page, which has no replacement cables that I could see. 

@JAnonymous5150 has already been our hero (for the FF3 foams) once. Maybe he can sweet-talk Smabat into getting replacement parts (such as the cable)?! They DO have the $1 "logistics" on their website, which I used to get a replacement 32 bio driver for a DOA one I ordered.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Sep 2, 2022)

FF3 (balance foams) vs YD30 (stock full foams), measured using my IEC 711 coupler. Method described below. Graphs should be used for A/B comparison rather than inferring the real world performance (though I must say the graph is quite similar to what I hear from these buds). The bass of FF3 is truely something else. It's not just the quantity but also the quality. YD30, on the other hand, sounds like an Etymotic. The YD30 is not that mild as one would expect from the lower ear gain. That peak around 6k is real, and it would have a straining effect on some high vocals, similarly to the Moondrop Chu IEM.

Method: I hold the buds and the artificial ear canal together to ensure that the seal is consistent. The measurements remain the same across repetitions. I also found that the shape and peaks of the upper midrange stay the same regardless how how tight I press the buds against the ear canal. However, all frequencies below 1k change a lot. If I don't apply any pressure, the ear gain will be 15db like Fiio's graph.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> FF3 (balance foams) vs YD30 (stock full foams), measured using my IEC 711 coupler. Method described below. Graphs should be used for A/B comparison rather than inferring the real world performance (though I must say the graph is quite similar to what I hear from these buds). The bass of FF3 is truely something else. It's not just the quantity but also the quality. YD30, on the other hand, sounds like an Etymotic. The YD30 is not that mild as one would expect from the lower ear gain. That peak around 6k is real, and it would have a straining effect on some high vocals, similarly to the Moondrop Chu IEM.
> 
> Method: I hold the buds and the artificial ear canal together to ensure that the seal is consistent. The measurements remain the same across repetitions. I also found that the shape and peaks of the upper midrange stay the same regardless how how tight I press the buds against the ear canal. However, all frequencies below 1k change a lot. If I don't apply any pressure, the ear gain will be 15db like Fiio's graph.


Looking at the graph I would say that that pina gain boost would probably be perceived as pretty hot on the YD30. Compared to the rest of the sweep, it is boosted quite a bit. The 6K boost wouldn't bother me much at all though, as long as it didn't throw off the tonality of the overall sound signature, or is not tizzy or too thin.


----------



## fooltoque

tendou said:


> One person bust one side of their ff3 driver because incorrectly connecting the balanced connector from the lack of manual or unintuitive design. Another one get an oxidized plug fresh out from the box. They return it first time and received a replacement from fiio but it's also oxidized.
> Other did complain that the recent fiio plug is of lesser quality compared to old one. They complain about it in facebook group.


I'm really fond of the twist lock on the FiiO EM5. I hope they use this one going forward.


----------



## fooltoque

chavez said:


> TRN slided this into my DM's on aliexpress.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I really like ear-hook cables on IEMs, so I wish that more flatheads would lend themselves to this style. I do wonder how it affects the fit though.


----------



## samandhi

fooltoque said:


> I'm really fond of the twist lock on the FiiO EM5. I hope they use this one going forward.


Yeah, I like that system also. I can see where people have had some issues with the FF3 cable (and the like) because you have to turn a bright light on, and look for the little dimple and line up the track on the connector to be able to connect it properly. It isn't hard, but is a pretty decent sized PITA IMHO. Good thing I don't switch TOO often.


----------



## samandhi

fooltoque said:


> I really like ear-hook cables on IEMs, so I wish that more flatheads would lend themselves to this style. I do wonder how it affects the fit though.


I think it really depends on the shell of the bud. For instance, the Smabat ST10S lends itself VERY well to the over-ear style of wear. They are super comfortable in that configuration, and sound great. But something like the Yincrow RW2000/3000 aren't so much, and the sound is quite a bit different besides (and IMO not for the better).


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> Yeah, I like that system also. I can see where people have had some issues with the FF3 cable (and the like) because you have to turn a bright light on, and look for the little dimple and line up the track on the connector to be able to connect it properly. It isn't hard, but is a pretty decent sized PITA IMHO. Good thing I don't switch TOO often.


Fiio’s new cable has magnetic connection. Price is pretty good as well. I wonder what the catch is.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Fiio’s new cable has magnetic connection. Price is pretty good as well. I wonder what the catch is.


While I haven't seen it, if they are using the magnets to not only hold them in place, but also as the contacts, then you may have a higher impedance in the cable (or noise, etc...). So, the overall quality MAY not be as top notch as rhodium or gold-plated connections. All conjecture at this point though.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Sep 2, 2022)

samandhi said:


> While I haven't seen it, if they are using the magnets to not only hold them in place, but also as the contacts, then you may have a higher impedance in the cable (or noise, etc...). So, the overall quality MAY not be as top notch as rhodium or gold-plated connections. All conjecture at this point though.



I’m quite curious about those cables. They look high tech and fancy, yet they are cheaper than the previous cables and they are boxed in the same budget packaging of Jade Audio stuffs, so I am skeptical. I need a new cable for Andromeda but I don’t want to degrade its audio quality (super sensitive IEM, even touching the DAC in the wrong way can make some crackle sounds).

Edit: AUD $85. The previous cable that comes with FD5 and FA7s is $100

Edit 2: since we are in earbuds thread: I have A/B YD30 between different sources. There is not much to performance to gain. Its resolution is alright on Apple dongle, a bit less blunted and mushy on my DAP, and crisper on my KA3 (powered by USB C, not lightning). If you get one for work or something, apple dongle is just fine. FF3 on the other hand, should be amped with a decent source. It sounds gorgeous on M11+ via 4.4mm output.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> FF3 works just fine, as long as I don't move around much. MX500 shells fit even if I walk around, even jumping around. That's the most surprising part to me. Can't wait for my MX500 shells to arrive so that I can DIY some buds. I bought the 64 ohm titanium drivers and "150 ohm bass speakers". I also bought a pair of metal shells for the titanium drivers. Can't wait to try.


Order a PK shell as well   They are my personal favorites.  Just order some cheap, vintage drivers that are in stock.  See how the fit is and then replace them with something nicer of you desire.


----------



## fooltoque

FF3s finally showed up on my local store site today. Says they are available from Sept 9. 
https://www.e-earphone.jp/products/detail/1447558/2705/ 
I'm thinking this means I can demo them there soon as well.


----------



## samandhi

fooltoque said:


> FF3s finally showed up on my local store site today. Says they are available from Sept 9.
> https://www.e-earphone.jp/products/detail/1447558/2705/
> I'm thinking this means I can demo them there soon as well.


That is great news indeed!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Yeah, I like that system also. I can see where people have had some issues with the FF3 cable (and the like) because you have to turn a bright light on, and look for the little dimple and line up the track on the connector to be able to connect it properly. It isn't hard, but is a pretty decent sized PITA IMHO. Good thing I don't switch TOO often.



I haven't had any problems changing it in the dark. The dimple makes it so that its easy (for me at least) to tell when you have it lined up right because it's much easier to push it in. The resistance that the bump causes allows me to tell when I have the connector aligned properly. Does yours not work that way? so you're able to push the connector on just as easily no matter how it's aligned? I guess I got lucky with a connector that works the way it's supposed to work.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

fooltoque said:


> I really like ear-hook cables on IEMs, so I wish that more flatheads would lend themselves to this style. I do wonder how it affects the fit though.



The down cable style is actually one of the reasons I like earbuds. I sometimes get tired of having a cable over my ear all the time. I have been using IEMs as a musician since the 90's and I still haven't grown to find the cable up method as comfortable as a good cable down earbud. I seem to be in the minority on that one, but it's nice to have some solid listening options that let me take a break from over ear headphones AND cables.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I haven't had any problems changing it in the dark. The dimple makes it so that its easy (for me at least) to tell when you have it lined up right because it's much easier to push it in. The resistance that the bump causes allows me to tell when I have the connector aligned properly. Does yours not work that way? so you're able to push the connector on just as easily no matter how it's aligned? I guess I got lucky with a connector that works the way it's supposed to work.


I think you just got a good one, or I got a bad one... 

It is just as hard to push in when aligned correctly as it is when it is not. So, you HAVE to see if you are getting the dimple in the track to KNOW that you are doing it right. I guess I just assumed that they were all as difficult when right as they were wrong, hence the issues. If they are all as easy as yours then that means, there are some idiots out there that shouldn't be allowed to get out of bed in the morning ... LOL


JAnonymous5150 said:


> The down cable style is actually one of the reasons I like earbuds. I sometimes get tired of having a cable over my ear all the time. I have been using IEMs as a musician since the 90's and I still haven't grown to find the cable up method as comfortable as a good cable down earbud. I seem to be in the minority on that one, but it's nice to have some solid listening options that let me take a break from over ear headphones AND cables.


I actually like over ear AND down both for buds. But as a general rule, I DO like my earbuds to be down the vast majority of the time (with the exception of the ST10S which there is no choice unless you change cables).


----------



## prakasitp

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Sure can though it will have to be from memory because I went ahead and sold the mojitos. The Viridis have the Mojitos beat on soundstage size and separation for sure. The soundstage of the Viridis is possibly the widest I have heard on any earbud which helps with separation which is another strong suit. @WoodyLuvr calls the Viridis the King of Soundstage. As for depth of the stage, I think the Viridis is slightly larger there as well. The Mojito is no slouch though and it has relatively large soundstage as well.
> 
> For detail retrieval and resolution I would call it a toss up between the two. Both the Viridis and the Mojitos provide a very well detailed presentation. Maybe the Viridis have a touch more in the way of micro dynamics in the top end, but conversely the Mojitos may have a touch more detail in the low mid section. On most tracks you'd be hard pressed to tell the resolving power of the two apart which is why I think it's safe to call it a draw.
> 
> I would like to add that the Virdis do the holographic, "outside your head" presentation as well or better than any earbud out there. When I was first listening to them, I found myself looking over my shoulder multiple times to see where a sound was coming from before realizing that it was in fact in the music I was listening too. It's not very often you run into an earbud that has that kind of holographic realism in its presentation.


The Viridis you mentioned is Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis, right?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

prakasitp said:


> The Viridis you mentioned is Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis, right?


Yes.

*2020 - Toneking (MrZ - MusicMaker) Dendroaspis Viridis; 32Ω (aka Green Mamba)*


----------



## JAnonymous5150

prakasitp said:


> The Viridis you mentioned is Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis, right?



Yes sir! The Green Mamba of the earbud world. Agile and aggressive, but beautiful to observe in their element.


----------



## christianfps

Speaking of Toneking, just saw this




Are these new ones? No info on them yet though


----------



## WoodyLuvr

christianfps said:


> Speaking of Toneking, just saw this
> 
> Are these new ones? No info on them yet though


Link please... that is something new!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

christianfps said:


> Speaking of Toneking, just saw this
> 
> Are these new ones? No info on them yet though



I have no idea, but they look like a black version of the Viridis so I wonder if they meant to call them Mamba and the "Manba" from the ad you posted is just a typo. It would be cool if they made a sister bud to contrast with and compliment the Viridis that's a Black Mamba version!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 2, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I have no idea, but they look like a black version of the Viridis so I wonder if they meant to call them Mamba and the "Manba" from the ad you posted is just a typo. It would be cool if they made a sister bud to contrast with and compliment the Viridis that's a Black Mamba version!


And a typo on the actual shell as well... it reads "Manba" as well... very strange. The Chinese 黑曼巴 translates as "Black Mamba" though.

天魁 ~ 黑曼巴 ~ 平头赛 = Tiankui (Toneking) ~ Black Mamba ~ Flathead Competition (Race)


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> And a typo on the actual shell as well... it reads "Manba" as well... very strange. The Chinese 黑曼巴 translates as "Black Mamba" though.
> 
> 天魁 ~ 黑曼巴 ~ 平头赛 = Tiankui (Toneking) ~ Black Mamba ~ Flathead Competition (Race)


It could happen. Smabat have typo on their site AND the box IIRC for the Super One (Super Noe)...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

WoodyLuvr said:


> And a typo on the actual shell as well... it reads "Manba" as well... very strange. The Chinese 黑曼巴 translates as "Black Mamba" though.
> 
> 天魁 ~ 黑曼巴 ~ 平头赛 = Tiankui (Toneking) ~ Black Mamba ~ Flathead Competition (Race)



Awesome! It looks like I have another pair of buds I need to keep an eye out for.


----------



## drewbadour

Has anyone compared FF3 with Viridis yet. Would be curious to see how they stack up!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

drewbadour said:


> Has anyone compared FF3 with Viridis yet. Would be curious to see how they stack up!



I own and love both, but you couldn't pick two more different earbuds. They are complete opposites. What were you wanting compared about them?


----------



## mt877

Smabat M4 arrived today. Didn't even try them yet. Here's a few pics.

Included with the M4 base package is the buds and 3.5SE cable, a storage case and 3 pairs of both full and donut foams.

It does not include any additional tuning dampers, only the dampers that come preinstalled. So you'll need to order the tuning damper kit if you want to tune them to your own preference (I ordered a set). I also got the ST10S 150Ω, ST20Pro 100Ω and the IEM Balanced Armature drivers.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Smabat M4 arrived today. Didn't even try them yet. Here's a few pics.
> 
> Included with the M4 base package is the buds and 3.5SE cable, a storage case and 3 pairs of both full and donut foams.
> 
> It does not include any additional tuning dampers, only the dampers that come preinstalled. So you'll need to order the tuning damper kit if you want to tune them to your own preference (I ordered a set). I also got the ST10S 150Ω, ST20Pro 100Ω and the IEM Balanced Armature drivers.


Fantastic! Congratz on your new shiny! 

Any idea which filters are preinstalled?


----------



## drewbadour

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I own and love both, but you couldn't pick two more different earbuds. They are complete opposites. What were you wanting compared about them?


I know nothing about the viridis haha. I have the ff3 though. How are they different?


----------



## mt877 (Sep 2, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Fantastic! Congratz on your new shiny!
> 
> Any idea which filters are preinstalled?


Thanks! They have type 3 filter preinstalled. Having my first listen right now with standard 40Ω LCP composite drivers. I tried them without any foams first to get a baseline sound. Thin sounding, treble is slightly edgy. Put on Smabat provided full foams, sound is much better. Bass fullness increased and taming of treble. Actually sounds very nice with the standard 40Ω LCP composite driver. Got to put in more listening time to get a good impression, but good so far. Will try the other drivers as well. Not sure if the drivers will require some burn in time or not for optimal sound. If I do decide to burn in, I'll listen to the drivers first and then connect them to my stereo system and let the drivers burn in without listening to them during the burn in. The only bad thing with that burn in method is relying on memory of how a driver sounded before burn in and comparing to how the driver sounds after burn in. I generally don't do any burn in. I guess that's a topic for another time.

Here's the graphs.

M4 with preinstalled damper.




Damper kit, note they show M4 + type 3 (white line) which matches the FR graph from the M4 product page (above).


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Thanks! They have type 3 filter preinstalled. Having my first listen right now with standard 40Ω LCP composite drivers. I tried them without any foams first to get a baseline sound. Thin sounding, treble is slightly edgy. Put on Smabat provided full foams, sound is much better. Bass fullness increased and taming of treble. Actually sounds very nice with the standard 40Ω LCP composite driver. Got to put in more listening time to get a good impression, but good so far. Will try the other drivers as well. Not sure if the drivers will require some burn in time or not for optimal sound. If I do decide to burn in, I'll listen to the drivers first and then connect them to my stereo system and let the drivers burn in without listening to them during the burn in. The only bad thing with that burn in method is relying on memory of how a driver sounded before burn in and comparing to how the driver sounds after burn in. I generally don't do any burn in. I guess that's a topic for another time.
> 
> Here's the graphs.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing your initial impressions. 

Oh great! Buying the filters won't be a complete waste of time for me then... OOTB and with the 40LCP do they sound much like the M2s Pro (from your memory banks)?


----------



## RimaLV2 (Sep 2, 2022)

Aliexpress Link

Has anyone tested this kind of foam yet?


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Thanks for sharing your initial impressions.
> 
> Oh great! Buying the filters won't be a complete waste of time for me then... OOTB and with the 40LCP do they sound much like the M2s Pro (from your memory banks)?


Unfortunately I don't have / never had the M2s Pro, so can't give a comparison.

Ok, I know this won't be everybody's cup of tea, but I'm listening to the "Enter the Dragon" (Lalo Shifrin) soundtrack right now and it's sounding really good with the M4 OOTB with the full foams. The sound track has enough variety of bass, brass, strings, drums and what the heck, it's (IMO) Bruce Lee's greatest movie.


----------



## tgx78 (Sep 2, 2022)

RimaLV2 said:


> Aliexpress Link
> 
> Has anyone tested this kind of foam yet?




The material is a bit scratch, but works well with earbuds that are smooth and bassy for me as it tones down the bass and midrange transparency increases.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 2, 2022)

drewbadour said:


> I know nothing about the viridis haha. I have the ff3 though. How are they different?



The Viridis is all about the mids and treble. The bass is very fast, tight, and detailed. The mids are sweet with lots of separation and layering. The treble extends very high and provides all the micro details the music has to offer. The Viridis' soundstage is the widest I have heard in an earbud and gives a very holographic, out of head feel that sometimes had me looking over my shoulder and stuff to identify the source of a sound before realizing that it was in the music and coming from the earbuds. They make certain musical genres and styles as well as vocals sound absolutely beautiful and refined, IMO.

The FF3s have powerful bass and that authoritative presentation that makes the lows and mids the star of the show. The treble is slightly rolled off which contributes to that tuning and presentation. While the soundstage on the FF3s is big and has as much depth as the Viridis, it isn't as wide and, for me at least, doesn't create as much of that holigraphic effect I mentioned with the Viridis. Basically, the FF3s are best at what the Virdis aren't very good for and the Virdis are specialists in the kinds of music that don't play into the strengths of the FF3s. 

Between these two buds, I can listen to every genre/style of music that I listen to in complete aural bliss. I think they are a spectacular complimentary pair and I'm happy to own both.


----------



## christianfps

WoodyLuvr said:


> Link please... that is something new!


Hi sorry for the late reply. Haven't seen them yet on AliExpress and have only seen them on our local online seller. https://shopee.ph/product/283086553/17883746749?smtt=0.44012840-1662166085.9 

I hope you guys can view it and see the specs at least. But it is weird that they have a typo in the shell.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 2, 2022)

RimaLV2 said:


> Aliexpress Link
> 
> Has anyone tested this kind of foam yet?



I use them when I encounter a bud that could use more detail and transparency when a donut foam creates some timbral problems or some shoutiness and I even use them in combination with a donut or silicone ring when I'm having fit issues and doubling up with standard foams comes off too veiled. Ultimately, they're a nice extra option to have and I'm glad I picked them up when looking for alternate foam options.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

christianfps said:


> Hi sorry for the late reply. Haven't seen them yet on AliExpress and have only seen them on our local online seller. https://shopee.ph/product/283086553/17883746749?smtt=0.44012840-1662166085.9
> 
> I hope you guys can view it and see the specs at least. But it is weird that they have a typo in the shell.



The real question is which one of you guys is gonna buy a pair for me and ship them to Southern California? LOL 😜

Seriously though, I hope they end up on AliExpress soon because I'm gonna have to give them a shot given how much I like the Viridis. If anyone buys these I expect an impressions post and would really appreciate it if you could remember to tag me in it so I don't miss it.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> The real question is which one of you guys is gonna buy a pair for me and ship them to Southern California? LOL 😜
> 
> Seriously though, I hope they end up on AliExpress soon because I'm gonna have to give them a shot given how much I like the Viridis. If anyone buys these I expect an impressions post and would really appreciate it if you could remember to tag me in it so I don't miss it.



So you are in SoCal. Now, which successful rock band is in SoCal … 

Btw, TIL that SoCal means Southern California.

I am letting my friend to audition my FD5 to see if he wants to buy it. I let him test my YD30 yesterday, and he was like: “hey, this is good too. Is it $100? $15? No way” So, there you go, that’s an unscientific evidence of how newbies perceive the sound of earbuds


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> So you are in SoCal. Now, which successful rock band is in SoCal …
> 
> Btw, TIL that SoCal means Southern California.
> 
> I am letting my friend to audition my FD5 to see if he wants to buy it. I let him test my YD30 yesterday, and he was like: “hey, this is good too. Is it $100? $15? No way” So, there you go, that’s an unscientific evidence of how newbies perceive the sound of earbuds



Yeah, because there are so few successful bands in SoCal...😉

It's funny how many people's only earbud experience is with low quality buds included with phones back in the day. Then when they finally hear a good pair they're blown away. My own rediscovery of earbuds was kinda like that, although I had heard a good pair of buds before, but only one and it had been a very long time.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Yeah, because there are so few successful bands in SoCal...😉
> 
> It's funny how many people's only earbud experience is with low quality buds included with phones back in the day. Then when they finally hear a good pair they're blown away. My own rediscovery of earbuds was kinda like that, although I had heard a good pair of buds before, but only one and it had been a very long time.


I think most people (me) remember earbuds as apple earpods. They fit well, without a doubt, but they sound like an IEM without bass rather than the spacious staging of “audiophile” ear buds. 

Btw, I’m opening up the YD30 to drill a bass vent later today. I forgot all of my shiny new tools in the office, so i have to drag myself back there. My filters and drivers and shells are still somewhere in Sydney, so I’m drilling the ones I have first


----------



## emusic13

Happy Weekend listening


----------



## christianfps

JAnonymous5150 said:


> The real question is which one of you guys is gonna buy a pair for me and ship them to Southern California? LOL 😜
> 
> Seriously though, I hope they end up on AliExpress soon because I'm gonna have to give them a shot given how much I like the Viridis. If anyone buys these I expect an impressions post and would really appreciate it if you could remember to tag me in it so I don't miss it.



I'm really thinking of buying a new pair either the Viridis or these new Mambas but the typo really is a no go for me. Maybe there's a way to paint over it? haha! Or I might try soon enough the Letshuoer S12, seeing a lot of good things about it also.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

christianfps said:


> I'm really thinking of buying a new pair either the Viridis or these new Mambas but the typo really is a no go for me. Maybe there's a way to paint over it? haha! Or I might try soon enough the Letshuoer S12, seeing a lot of good things about it also.



Haha! The typo makes them "special" though! I'm gonna buy them anyways if I get the chance and you guys can make fun of my Manbas as much as you want. See if I care!😜


----------



## JAnonymous5150

christianfps said:


> I'm really thinking of buying a new pair either the Viridis or these new Mambas but the typo really is a no go for me. Maybe there's a way to paint over it? haha! Or I might try soon enough the Letshuoer S12, seeing a lot of good things about it also.



P.S. The S12s are pretty killer. I actually prefer them to all the other major planars including the Hook-X. They're definitely worth a look.

Sorry for the off topic comment, but I couldn't resist.


----------



## mt877 (Sep 3, 2022)

About the Smabat M4 single full range BA IEM modules... I don't have IEMs with a single full range BA, so I can't directly compare them to any like equipment sound wise. I'm not going to bash these IEM modules. The only IEMs with BAs I have are the Sony IER-M7 and IER-M9 which are much pricier and frankly it would not even be a fair comparison between the Sony's and the Smabat. The bass labyrinth of the housing does increase the bass signature of the BA IEM modules, the highs aren't overpowering or piercing as speculated by a couple people earlier in this thread, and they do put out decent sound, just not on the same level as the Sony's. They would be useful if you needed some passive environmental isolation that the earbud modules can't provide. Smabat only provides medium size ear tips, no small or large, so if you get them and need a size different than medium, you'll need to provide your own ear tips. I'll leave it at that.


----------



## DBaldock9

I've been tempted by all of the discussion about the FiiO FF3 - but instead, decided to take advantage of the Smabat M4 sale.
Ended up getting the M4 Original driver, the Super One driver, and the Balanced Armature driver.
Should arrive sometime during the last week or two of this month.


----------



## baskingshark

DBaldock9 said:


> I've been tempted by all of the discussion about the FiiO FF3 - but instead, decided to take advantage of the Smabat M4 sale.
> Ended up getting the M4 Original driver, the Super One driver, and the Balanced Armature driver.
> Should arrive sometime during the last week or two of this month.



Nice, look forward to your impressions man! 

Though the only correct answer on Headfi was to have gotten both LOLOL.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

baskingshark said:


> Nice, look forward to your impressions man!
> 
> Though the only correct answer on Headfi was to have gotten both LOLOL.


Concur!*@DBaldock9* must be sent to the "flathead" indoctrination camps to be reprogrammed!  I probably need to go as well...


----------



## DBaldock9

baskingshark said:


> Nice, look forward to your impressions man!
> 
> Though the only correct answer on Headfi was to have gotten both LOLOL.





WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur!*@DBaldock9* must be sent to the "flathead" indoctrination camps to be reprogrammed!  I probably need to go as well...



Well, if I hadn't recently got in on the special order of the IMR Elan+ earphones, and begun building a 96TB+ NAS - I would have ordered the $100 FF3.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Working on a review that I am about 4 weeks late.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Working on a review that I am about 4 weeks late.



What review if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> What review if you don't mind me asking?


Hidizs Ap80 Pro X. I bought this unit on my own, btw. It was quite impressive, so I reached out to folks at Hidizs, telling them that I would review their DAP “in a couple weeks”. It has been like 8 weeks   

I might get their DH80 amplifier as well. The DAP by itself is a bit underpowered, even when compared against lightweight stuffs like BTR5.


----------



## yaps66

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I haven't had any problems changing it in the dark. The dimple makes it so that its easy (for me at least) to tell when you have it lined up right because it's much easier to push it in. The resistance that the bump causes allows me to tell when I have the connector aligned properly. Does yours not work that way? so you're able to push the connector on just as easily no matter how it's aligned? I guess I got lucky with a connector that works the way it's supposed to work.


That's exactly how it works on my EM5. Easy peasy Janasesy!


----------



## o0genesis0o (Sep 3, 2022)

Internals of the YD30 earbuds. I wonder what kind of drivers they are.

I’m going to drill a back vent

Edit: that’s it chief. A simple 1.5mm hole at the back of the shell fixes the bass problem of these buds. I’m very satisfied with the sound to the point that I don’t want to A/B with FF3 to avoid disappointment. (Note to self: don’t hype)

Edit 2: soundstage is a bit larger. Midbass is a bit overwhelming. I might need to add a filter to the bass vent later

Edit 3: added micropore to the vent from the inside of the shell. The bass is more balanced but still richer than the stock tuning to my ears. The bass does not have the rumble and texture of FF3, however.

Edit 4: Impressions from wife: these buds sound expensive. Very clear and crisp. Not as bassy as her Sony Xm4 headphones. Got her to try It’s my life acoustic version on YouTube and she couldn’t stop listening until the end, which is a good sign. She couldn’t stand how boring my Andromeda is.


----------



## jao29 (Sep 3, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> The Viridis is all about the mids and treble. The bass is very fast, tight, and detailed. The mids are sweet with lots of separation and layering. The treble extends very high and provides all the micro details the music has to offer. The Viridis' soundstage is the widest I have heard in an earbud and gives a very holographic, out of head feel that sometimes had me looking over my shoulder and stuff to identify the source of a sound before realizing that it was in the music and coming from the earbuds. They make certain musical genres and styles as well as vocals sound absolutely beautiful and refined, IMO.
> 
> The FF3s have powerful bass and that authoritative presentation that makes the lows and mids the star of the show. The treble is slightly rolled off which contributes to that tuning and presentation. While the soundstage on the FF3s is big and has as much depth as the Viridis, it isn't as wide and, for me at least, doesn't create as much of that holigraphic effect I mentioned with the Viridis. Basically, the FF3s are best at what the Virdis aren't very good for and the Virdis are specialists in the kinds of music that don't play into the strengths of the FF3s.
> 
> Between these two buds, I can listen to every genre/style of music that I listen to in complete aural bliss. I think they are a spectacular complimentary pair and I'm happy to own both.


To be fair, I have not heard an earbud that can rival the Viridis in terms of width and height. Even K’searphone Onmyoji with it’s flagship sound doesn’t have that gigantic soundstage the viridis has.

However, with that being said, The Viridis is far from my favorite earbud as it is simply anemic in the bass region.


----------



## mt877

o0genesis0o said:


> Internals of the YD30 earbuds. I wonder what kind of drivers they are.
> 
> I’m going to drill a back vent
> 
> ...


From your pics, looks like the horseshoe foams (can see the edge adhesive) are supposed to be stuck on the shells but came off attached to the drivers. The top of the shell is notched so would indicate the driver is mounted with the voice coil wires at the top. Kind of interesting about the driver positioning, I guess they found a reasonable tuning with the driver in that position?


----------



## o0genesis0o

mt877 said:


> From your pics, looks like the horseshoe foams (can see the edge adhesive) are supposed to be stuck on the shells but came off attached to the drivers. The top of the shell is notched so would indicate the driver is mounted with the voice coil wires at the top. Kind of interesting about the driver positioning, I guess they found a reasonable tuning with the driver in that position?


I found notches at both top and bottom. The opening of the horseshoes points downward. I think everything looks just like the photos in the earbuds DIY guide.


----------



## mt877

o0genesis0o said:


> I found notches at both top and bottom. The opening of the horseshoes points downward. I think everything looks just like the photos in the earbuds DIY guide.


Ah, OK couldn’t see a notch at the bottom. So voice coil is at the bottom then.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Internals of the YD30 earbuds. I wonder what kind of drivers they are.
> 
> I’m going to drill a back vent
> 
> ...


What was the initial problem with the bass?


----------



## mt877 (Sep 3, 2022)

A quick look at the M4 ST10s 150 and ST20Pro 100 drivers. They don't come with any foams so either use up the foams provided with the base M4 or have some at the ready. Will have a listen later and see what they sound like.





Edit: Forgot to add the full range BA drivers. As previously mentioned only medium tips are included. Measured nozzle size is 4.78mm, be sure to find tips that will fit that nozzle size if you need something other than medium tips.


----------



## unifutomaki

mt877 said:


> A quick look at the M4 ST10s 150 and ST20Pro 100 drivers. They don't come with any foams so either use up the foams provided with the base M4 or have some at the ready. Will have a listen later and see what they sound like.
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Forgot to add the full range BA drivers. As previously mentioned only medium tips are included. Measured nozzle size is 4.78mm, be sure to find tips that will fit that nozzle size if you need something other than medium tips.


Wait, that last one allows you to convert your earbuds into an IEM?


----------



## syazwaned

mt877 said:


> A quick look at the M4 ST10s 150 and ST20Pro 100 drivers. They don't come with any foams so either use up the foams provided with the base M4 or have some at the ready. Will have a listen later and see what they sound like.
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Forgot to add the full range BA drivers. As previously mentioned only medium tips are included. Measured nozzle size is 4.78mm, be sure to find tips that will fit that nozzle size if you need something other than medium tips.




Does the Smabat BA bright? From the supplied graph it looks like bright


----------



## mt877

unifutomaki said:


> Wait, that last one allows you to convert your earbuds into an IEM?


Roger that! Your eyes do not deceive you. LOL


----------



## mt877 (Sep 3, 2022)

syazwaned said:


> Does the Smabat BA bright? From the supplied graph it looks like bright


Decent treble extension, not piercing. The M4 base modules (what the earbud and IEM modules screw onto) has Smabat's bass labyrinth tuning. The earbuds and IEM modules are rear vented, transferring sound waves to the base modules and pass through the bass labyrinth. Actually the IEM bass is pretty impressive because of that. Everyone would think that a BA doesn't have good bass, especially a full range BA, but Smabat's bass labyrinth makes the bass stand out and that helps the treble response to not be so sharp.

EDIT: This what I posted just 2 pages back:


mt877 said:


> About the Smabat M4 single full range BA IEM modules... I don't have IEMs with a single full range BA, so I can't directly compare them to any like equipment sound wise. I'm not going to bash these IEM modules. The only IEMs with BAs I have are the Sony IER-M7 and IER-M9 which are much pricier and frankly it would not even be a fair comparison between the Sony's and the Smabat. The bass labyrinth of the housing does increase the bass signature of the BA IEM modules, the highs aren't overpowering or piercing as speculated by a couple people earlier in this thread, and they do put out decent sound, just not on the same level as the Sony's. They would be useful if you needed some passive environmental isolation that the earbud modules can't provide. Smabat only provides medium size ear tips, no small or large, so if you get them and need a size different than medium, you'll need to provide your own ear tips. I'll leave it at that.


----------



## syazwaned

mt877 said:


> Decent treble extension, not piercing. The M4 base modules (what the earbud and IEM modules screw into) has Smabat's bass labyrinth tuning. The earbuds and IEM modules are rear vented, transferring sound waves to the base modules and pass through the bass labyrinth. Actually the IEM bass is pretty impressive because of that. Everyone would think that a BA doesn't have good bass, especially a full range BA, but Smabat's bass labyrinth makes the bass stand out and that helps the treble response to not be so sharp.


Damn! Impressive engineering from Smabat. Can't wait for your full review! Do you have m2s pro with super one driver? Appreciate if you can compare with Smabat m4 with ST20 pro driver in term of bass performance


----------



## mt877

syazwaned said:


> Damn! Impressive engineering from Smabat. Can't wait for your full review! Do you have m2s pro with super one driver? Appreciate if you can compare with Smabat m4 with ST20 pro driver in term of bass performance


I don't have the M2s Pro, so no comparison coming.


----------



## samandhi

syazwaned said:


> Damn! Impressive engineering from Smabat. Can't wait for your full review! Do you have m2s pro with super one driver? Appreciate if you can compare with Smabat m4 with ST20 pro driver in term of bass performance


I do, but I didn't order the ST20 Pro driver. I only ordered the Super One driver 100 bio, and the 150Ti (and of course the stock 40 LCP) drivers, so I can at least compare those with the M2s Pro and the Super One 100 bio, 32 bio, 40LCP, and 40Ti drivers.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> What was the initial problem with the bass?


Lower quantity, leading to slight imbalance between lower midrange and upper midrange as well. I wanted to boost the bass and lower mid a bit to balance things out.




mt877 said:


> Decent treble extension, not piercing. The M4 base modules (what the earbud and IEM modules screw onto) has Smabat's bass labyrinth tuning. The earbuds and IEM modules are rear vented, transferring sound waves to the base modules and pass through the bass labyrinth. Actually the IEM bass is pretty impressive because of that. Everyone would think that a BA doesn't have good bass, especially a full range BA, but Smabat's bass labyrinth makes the bass stand out and that helps the treble response to not be so sharp.
> 
> EDIT: This what I posted just 2 pages back:



BA supported by bass tubes seems like a good idea to get great IEM sound on a budget. No electrical cross over either


----------



## Ronion (Sep 3, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Lower quantity, leading to slight imbalance between lower midrange and upper midrange as well. I wanted to boost the bass and lower mid a bit to balance things out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In that situation, I would try to put in a port of some sort.  You’ll actually lose deep bass doing what you did, but you’ll also decrease the pinna gain so the balance may be better to your ears.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> In that situation, I would try to put in a port of some sort.  You’ll actually lose deep bass doing what you did, but you’ll also know down the pinna gain so the balance may be better to your ears.



Before and after, right from the coupler, without any realignment of graphs





I thought that drilling a back hole is already putting in a port? Or do you mean I need to do rivet mod?


----------



## mt877 (Sep 4, 2022)

The Smabat M4 battle of the bass with the M4 drivers I have on hand...

Well let me get right to it. If you like ultimate bass just get the Smabat ST10s Black Gold 150Ω buds and don't look back.

I compared the ST10s BG buds to the M4 ST10s BG drivers and to put it plainly, the ST10s BG buds blew away the M4 ST10s BG drivers in the bass department.

Having said that, it's not all high praise for the ST10s BG buds either. To my ears (someone please confirm) the ST10s BG buds present with a sort of V or U shape signature, bass and treble is dominant while the mid-range take a backseat. While the combination of the M4 tuning and the ST10s BG driver lift the mid-range, knocking some bass down. Maybe Smabat tried to tune the M4 more balanced versus their previous bud releases? Anyway, listening to the same music track with both ST10s BG and M4 ST10s BG driver was like listening to two different tracks. It was like two mastering engineers were battling it out with the same track, one guy going for bass and treble, while the other guy was bringing up the mids while lowering the bass. To me both miss the mark (listen to the FiiO FF3 to understand where I'm coming from).

I've since changed my impression of the ST10S BG buds and the M4 ST10S BG drivers. My source for initial listening was Shanling M3X, I changed to my Mac and Qudelix-5K and both the ST10S BG buds and the M4 ST10S BG drivers no longer sound different. See my new post here.

Moving on to the M4 ST20 Pro 100Ω fiber driver. To me this driver fit right in the middle between the ST10s BG buds and the M4 ST10s BG drivers. Good bass and mid-range presentation. Treble was bright, but not piercing. This driver was the closest to the FF3 in terms of a balanced sound.

I can understand that some folks will be saying, "Well, I don't have the FF3 and don't know what they sound like". If you've read some of the recent posts in this thread, then you should have a fair understanding that the FF3 is an all-rounder set of buds. I mentioned in previous posts that the FF3 would be the "reference" bud of the new era because it is just that good. When I say "reference", I'm not saying it's the absolute TOTL bud, nope, what I mean is for the overall sound and musicality they set an excellent standard which other buds can be referenced against.

Well the M4 ST10s BG and ST20 Pro drivers were all I had, someone else can pick up the gauntlet and continue this discussion when they get the other bass worthy drivers.


----------



## syazwaned

samandhi said:


> I do, but I didn't order the ST20 Pro driver. I only ordered the Super One driver 100 bio, and the 150Ti (and of course the stock 40 LCP) drivers, so I can at least compare those with the M2s Pro and the Super One 100 bio, 32 bio, 40LCP, and 40Ti drivers.


Thank friend, appreciate it


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Before and after, right from the coupler, without any realignment of graphs
> 
> 
> I thought that drilling a back hole is already putting in a port? Or do you mean I need to do rivet mod?


Doesn’t have to be a rivet.  Any sort of small tube will do, but Rivets are nice because of the lip and you can hide the janky-looking glue smudging that’s hard to hide without the lip.  They are challenging to find narrow enough rivets for your purposes, but they are out there.  Everything is a tradeoff.  You can see that you’ve done exact What I’ve said though—except I stated it from an audibility perspective.  Aligning the graphs somewhere between 100-600 Hz will expose it more visually speaking.  The argument tends to be a center frequency between middle C and the A above it, but I like to ‘hang loose’ so to speak.  Either way you look at it, the results are the same though: a warmer bud with relatively less deep bass/pinna gain.  With your coupling method, you would think the green line would sound better assuming you haven’t bought an ear (Yet).

A hole is definitely a port, but it’s tuned for midbass/midrange in a sense and thus the gain in that region.  If you extend that idea however, a wider port makes an open baffle bud.  Extending the port’s length will tune is deeper just like a regular ported speaker—or doing a rivet mod as is the vernacular in the bud’s underground scene LOL.  I personally like to maximize the frequency range, and tuning that port deeper would do that. With that said, it may not sound as balanced as it does now, but you can further customize that balance.  Since you have the hole, the Rivet Mod would be the next thing to try IMO.  Deeper bass is sexy.  

You should buy an ear off of EA to see what you are really getting in a more realistic setting.  You can get them for under $5.  Maybe buy a few.  You’d have a really nice rig at that point.  It would still be impossible to really calibrate, but I’d bet you could get close enough with careful listening and there is no “standard” to really calibrate to anyway as there is no “standard” recording studio (Though some recording industry bodies do have some standards that are fairly related).


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> Doesn’t have to be a rivet.  Any sort of small tube will do, but Rivets are nice because of the lip and you can hide the janky-looking glue smudging that’s hard to hide without the lip.  They are challenging to find narrow enough rivets for your purposes, but they are out there.  Everything is a tradeoff.  You can see that you’ve done exact What I’ve said though—except I stated it from an audibility perspective.  Aligning the graphs somewhere between 100-600 Hz will expose it more visually speaking.  The argument tends to be a center frequency between middle C and the A above it, but I like to ‘hang loose’ so to speak.  Either way you look at it, the results are the same though: a warmer bud with relatively less deep bass/pinna gain.  With your coupling method, you would think the green line would sound better assuming you haven’t bought an ear (Yet).
> 
> A hole is definitely a port, but it’s tuned for midbass/midrange in a sense and thus the gain in that region.  If you extend that idea however, a wider port makes an open baffle bud.  Extending the port’s length will tune is deeper just like a regular ported speaker—or doing a rivet mod as is the vernacular in the bud’s underground scene LOL.  I personally like to maximize the frequency range, and tuning that port deeper would do that. With that said, it may not sound as balanced as it does now, but you can further customize that balance.  Since you have the hole, the Rivet Mod would be the next thing to try IMO.  Deeper bass is sexy.
> 
> You should buy an ear off of EA to see what you are really getting in a more realistic setting.  You can get them for under $5.  Maybe buy a few.  You’d have a really nice rig at that point.  It would still be impossible to really calibrate, but I’d bet you could get close enough with careful listening and there is no “standard” to really calibrate to anyway as there is no “standard” recording studio (Though some recording industry bodies do have some standards that are fairly related).



Hey Ronion, thanks for the response. I think you are right. If I align the graph around 500Hz (where I consider "mid-midrange"), I can see that the bass looks exactly the same but the higher frequencies dropped. 





Anyhow, I think it is two side of the same coin (more lower frequencies vs less upper frequencies). The point is (1) the contrast between lower and upper frequencies was reduced and (2) _I did not manage to extend bass response_. Whilst I am very satisfied with the upper frequencies, resolution, and soundstage, bass is still no where as good as FF3.

Though I must say that I disagreed with you at first about "losing ear gain rather than gaining bass" because the dogma that I learned from IEM world is that "opening back = more bass, until you over do it and lose all the bass", and "opening front vents = dropping the dirty boxy mid bass".

Re: measurement gig: I think the way I measure now achieve good precision, but no idea about accuracy. My hunch is that it reflects what I hear. Anyhow, I would buy artificial ears for my coupler.

Anyhow, *my verdict for Nicehk YD30*: Very good buy if you are willing to open it up and drill a hole through the back. In stock form, it sounds like an ER2SE or Tanchjim OLA with a more soundstage. Resolution is alright, 3/5. After modding, it is very good for all acoustic genres, and anything that benefits from large soundstage and does not rely on bass. The tonality is thicker and warmer, but the treble air seems to be more extended. Cymbals and high hats sound great.


----------



## mt877

I said this in my previous post:

"Moving on to the M4 ST20 Pro 100Ω fiber driver. To me this driver fit right in the middle between the ST10s BG buds and the M4 ST10s BG drivers. Good bass and mid-range presentation. Treble was bright, but not piercing. This driver was the closest to the FF3 in terms of a balanced sound."

After carefully listening to the M4 ST10s BG and M4 ST20 Pro drivers again, they have more in common then not. While the ST20 Pro driver sounds a bit more balanced than the ST10s BG drivers, it is not as extreme as what you may think from my previous description. Anyway, hope others will give their impressions when they receive their M4 buds and drivers as well.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Hey Ronion, thanks for the response. I think you are right. If I align the graph around 500Hz (where I consider "mid-midrange"), I can see that the bass looks exactly the same but the higher frequencies dropped.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I tend to look at things from an audibility or psychoacoustic perspective because that’s what ultimately matters to me and in truth it’s what actually matters to all of us when we listen to music.  It’s the balance you are going to hear.  Relative to the midbass, your sub bass is reduced audibly d/t Fletcher/Munson (ELC) and masking.  You can maximize the visibility of that by aligning at 150Hz.  Acoustically, you bumped the midrange, midbass and even deep bass.   Just less deep bass than midbass and deep bass is generally harder to hear and the stuff that’s hard to get in a bud.  You could also say that overall the deep bass _may_ be more audible d/t the more dramatic decrease in pinna gain.

In all the preference data that’s ever been done, Deep Bass>Midbass and midbass is usually prevalent beyond Harman in buds.  I think Harman’s IEM graph way overemphasized this because of their methodology, but it holds true in all the room preference data as well ever since deep bass was readily attainable.  Buds usually have plenty of midbass, and not enough of the deep stuff.  That’s where my comment really came from.  I thought you wanted the deep, hard to reach stuff.  To get the deep stuff, you’ll have to do more than a hole.  I’ve been there and done that, so just trying to lend a hand.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> Buds usually have plenty of midbass, and not enough of the deep stuff.  That’s where my comment really came from.  I thought you wanted the deep, hard to reach stuff.  To get the deep stuff, you’ll have to do more than a hole.  I’ve been there and done that, so just trying to lend a hand.



The YD30 does not even have enough mid bass. That's why I said it sounds like ER2SE or Tanchjim OLA in stock form. Still, unbelievable price / performance for $15 AUD. 

Of course, I did not mean to say "Look, I can drill a back vent, I have mastered earbuds". However, I'm definitely super proud that I can fine tune an alright pair of buds into darn good without resorting to EQ. Usually, this kind of "tuning" is reserved for influential reviews  . That's what thrills me the most. Can't wait for the next adventure when my shells and drivers arrive.


----------



## Alex.Grimm (Sep 4, 2022)

*Yuin PKE*
https://a.aliexpress.com/_vNJvnx
https://a.aliexpress.com/_v3uqDb


----------



## jeejack

mt877 said:


> The Smabat M4 battle of the bass with the M4 drivers I have on hand...
> 
> Well let me get right to it. If you like ultimate bass just get the Smabat ST10s Black Gold 150Ω buds and don't look back.
> 
> ...


It seems that the filters, which are sold separately, must also be ordered


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Alex.Grimm said:


> *Yuin PKE*
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_vNJvnx
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_v3uqDb



I think someone just posted about the PKEs being released on AE the other day. I have heard the Yuin PK1s and PK2s, but not the PKEs. Any chance you want to give me a rundown of the differences between the PKEs and either of the other two?


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> The Smabat M4 battle of the bass with the M4 drivers I have on hand...
> 
> Well let me get right to it. If you like ultimate bass just get the Smabat ST10s Black Gold 150Ω buds and don't look back.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing. This is also why I ended up liking the SO 100 bio best on the M2s Pro. It seems to be me most balanced (in relation to the other drivers), where the 32 bio seems to be the most "top" heavy (IMO). 

I can confirm that the ST10S B&G are indeed a "U" shaped tuning, though I would not exactly call them bright (when describing the treble region). The boosted pina is where you get all of your perceived clarity in these. As an experiment, you can set up an EQ profile and subtract about 4dB @3K with a BW of 1 or 2. Once you have done that, you will notice that the treble is actually a bit laid back (though certainly not veiled still). But, keep in mind YMMV on this because I am deaf past 12K (though I hear very well below that range), and I am also not sensitive to treble at all unless it actually has true sibilance; in which case it still doesn't hurt, it is just unpleasant. 

I would like to hear those same tests but while switching out the dampers/filters. Those will also be subtle difference (much like changing tips on an IEM), but hopefully they will help dial in the sound you might want better?!

Also, did you not listen to the stock driver? I would be curious what you think about those also?! 


mt877 said:


> After carefully listening to the M4 ST10s BG and M4 ST20 Pro drivers again, they have more in common then not. While the ST20 Pro driver sounds a bit more balanced than the ST10s BG drivers, it is not as extreme as what you may think from my previous description. Anyway, hope others will give their impressions when they receive their M4 buds and drivers as well.


This was also my thought on the M2s Pro. The differences in the drivers (while there) are fairly subtle in the end all the way from the 32bio to the 150Ti (and everything in between). This is my IMO though, so YMMV of course. 


jeejack said:


> It seems that the filters, which are sold separately, must also be ordered


Yep. I didn't order them for my initial purchase, but if they end up tuning the sound enough to notice, I may pick them up along the way. I suspect I will have all of the drivers in the end (although initially only picking up 2 of them).


----------



## jeejack

I have to tell you guys, 400 ohm is awesome


----------



## WoodyLuvr

jeejack said:


> I have to tell you guys, 400 ohm is awesome


----------



## jeejack

WoodyLuvr said:


>


😊🍻


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Have any of you guys tried the Shozy SG? What about the Earbuds Anonymous bud from Penon? Any impressions would be appreciated!


----------



## mt877 (Sep 4, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Thanks for sharing. This is also why I ended up liking the SO 100 bio best on the M2s Pro. It seems to be me most balanced (in relation to the other drivers), where the 32 bio seems to be the most "top" heavy (IMO).
> 
> I can confirm that the ST10S B&G are indeed a "U" shaped tuning, though I would not exactly call them bright (when describing the treble region). The boosted pina is where you get all of your perceived clarity in these. As an experiment, you can set up an EQ profile and subtract about 4dB @3K with a BW of 1 or 2. Once you have done that, you will notice that the treble is actually a bit laid back (though certainly not veiled still). But, keep in mind YMMV on this because I am deaf past 12K (though I hear very well below that range), and I am also not sensitive to treble at all unless it actually has true sibilance; in which case it still doesn't hurt, it is just unpleasant.
> 
> ...



Yesterday my source for listening test was the Shanling M3X, today I'm at my Mac with Qudelix-5K USB DAC. I consider both the Shanling M3X and the Qudelix-5K to be neutral sources and should give similar performance, but there is something different, maybe my ears had a good rest since yesterday.

I have listened to the stock driver (40Ω composite LCP) the first day and again today. It's a good general purpose driver with good bass / mid-bass extension. Mid-range is accentuated, maybe even a little forward at times. Treble is well controlled, not too bright. Male and female vocals sound natural with a hint of upper mid-range warmth. Listening to Louis Armstrong's voice in "It's a Wonderful World" presents his signature growl with mids edge. Listening to Whitney Houston's voice in "I Will Always Love You" presents her Grammy award winning voice with clarity and power. I think many people will like this stock driver. Maybe the accentuated mid-range might bug some people, they'll have to listen for themselves and decide.

Revisiting the M4 ST10S BG 150Ω driver vs ST10S BG 150Ω buds. Today using the Qudelix-5K as my source the listening experience is quite different than yesterday. I'm happy to report that there is no discernible difference between the original ST10S BG buds and the M4 ST10S BG drivers now. I truly don't understand why there was a difference yesterday. Maybe it was the change of source? Maybe I didn't fully seat the drivers on the M4 base modules? There is an o-ring inside the threaded section of the drivers and you need to screw down the drivers fully to compress the o-ring or the sound will leak. Whatever it was, my impression has changed for the better. I will stick to my original assessment of the ST10S BG buds and say that both the buds and the M4 drivers have a "U" shaped tuning. Sub-bass / bass is omnipresent, mid-range is reduced and as @samandhi mentioned, the treble is not bright, but does outshine the mid-range. If you like to listen to music that takes advantage of a U shaped tuning then the M4 ST10S BG drivers are the ones to get.

Revisiting the ST20Pro 100Ω fiber drivers again driven by the Qudelix-5K. Of the 3 drivers I got, this driver presents an overall brighter signature. From what I'm hearing the bass attack and decay is fast compared to the other two drivers. Maybe that is the reason for the brighter sound signature? Even with the brighter signature and the fast bass this driver sounds well balanced and smooth.

Well, again, I hope that others that are getting the M4 and the same drivers will give their impressions. It will be interesting if impressions coincide or are even vastly different.

I already had the damper kit on order and just placed another order for the other drivers. I should have just bought all the drivers with my original order. The different sound signatures and experimenting to find the sound these M4 buds can produce is definitely interesting.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

To my FF3 owners out there, the strain relief on the plug (the part that accepts the 3.5mm or 4.4mm tips) started to work itself out of the metal housing. Only part of one side had begun to pull free and I was able to get it pushed back in place easily with the pliers on my Leatherman multi-tool. I just happened to notice it while I was listening to them while I was taking a break. I'll probably put a little bit of some kind of adhesive on it when I get home. 

Just figured I would let everbody know so you guys can keep an eye out for it and catch the issue before it becomes a potential problem. BTW, the cable's termination was 100% uneffected and still solid so this wasn't some big deal.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Yesterday my source for listening test was the Shanling M3X, today I'm at my Mac with Qudelix-5K USB DAC. I consider both the Shanling M3X and the Qudelix-5K to be neutral sources and should give similar performance, but there is something different, maybe my ears had a good rest since yesterday.
> 
> I have listened to the stock driver (40Ω composite LCP) the first day and again today. It's a good general purpose driver with good bass / mid-bass extension. Mid-range is accentuated, maybe even a little forward at times. Treble is well controlled, not too bright. Male and female vocals sound natural with a hint of upper mid-range warmth. Listening to Louis Armstrong's voice in "It's a Wonderful World" presents his signature growl with mids edge. Listening to Whitney Houston's voice in "I Will Always Love You" presents her Grammy award winning voice with clarity and power. I think many people will like this stock driver. Maybe the accentuated mid-range might bug some people, they'll have to listen for themselves and decide.
> 
> ...


Awesome! Thanks for sharing more information about these. I can't wait to get them to do some testing also.

I certainly hope the 150Ti M4 doesn't sound JUST like the ST10S 150Ti (in my case), since I will have both. Guess I would have to get rid of one of them... LOL

Yeah, I probably should have just ordered the other two drivers also, but after hearing what the ST20 Pro were like OOTB I was worried that they would be so boosted in the pina gain region that I would hate them and regret the purchase. 

I also should have just ordered the filters/dampers, but I wasn't sure which one was on there for stock. And if it was already a 1, then they wouldn't do me much good, as I think the pina region is too boosted on most Smabat stuff as it is, and increasing numbers mean more pina gain (according to Smabat, they are calling it treble). I will await your impressions on these and their affects before buying though.


----------



## mt877 (Sep 4, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Have any of you guys tried the Shozy SG? What about the Earbuds Anonymous bud from Penon? Any impressions would be appreciated!


There's a couple of Earbuds Anonymous reviews here.

Edit: Since you're in South Cali are you going to visit the Head-fi CanJam SoCal Sept. 17-18? I thought about going to one of the CanJams when it was close to my area, but never went.


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Awesome! Thanks for sharing more information about these. I can't wait to get them to do some testing also.
> 
> I certainly hope the 150Ti M4 doesn't sound JUST like the ST10S 150Ti (in my case), since I will have both. Guess I would have to get rid of one of them... LOL
> 
> ...


I think you're gonna have to sell one of them or maybe repurpose for another custom build. They sound 'exactly' the same. Well maybe not exactly since the tuning of the ST10S shell is 1st generation tuning and the M4 tuning is the most current. I couldn't hear any discernible difference. I'm gonna keep both the ST10S buds and the M4 drivers.

I don't have the ST20 Pro. Those have the hybrid dual driver system, BA + DD drivers. The M4 ST20 Pro driver is only the DD driver so I think you'll be in the clear and can enjoy their sound.


----------



## o0genesis0o

mt877 said:


> There's a couple of Earbuds Anonymous reviews here.
> 
> Edit: Since you're in South Cali are you going to visit the Head-fi CanJam SoCal Sept. 17-18? I thought about going to one of the CanJams when it was close to my area, but never went.


Even if we see him there, he wouldn’t acknowledge us due to the anonymity thing


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> I think you're gonna have to sell one of them or maybe repurpose for another custom build. They sound 'exactly' the same. Well maybe not exactly since the tuning of the ST10S shell is 1st generation tuning and the M4 tuning is the most current. I couldn't hear any discernible difference. I'm gonna keep both the ST10S buds and the M4 drivers.
> 
> I don't have the ST20 Pro. Those have the hybrid dual driver system, BA + DD drivers. The M4 ST20 Pro driver is only the DD driver so I think you'll be in the clear and can enjoy their sound.


Oh, that's right. I totally forgot that one had a BA driver also. DOH! Ok, maybe I should just order the other two then...


----------



## baskingshark (Sep 4, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> What about the Earbuds Anonymous bud from Penon? Any impressions would be appreciated!



I may be the minority here, but I didn't like the *Earbuds Anonymous*, I sold it away after a few weeks.

When used with full foams, it is an L shaped set, warm, bassy and smooth with rolled off treble. The bass is midbass focused and north of neutral, with slight subbass roll off. Still better than most other buds in subbass extension, but not as well extended in the bass as the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold for example. Bass bleeds a bit into mids. Lower mids are depressed slightly with a slight boost in the upper mids. When not used with full foams, the bass tightens, but the upper mids can be shouty at louder volumes (fletcher munson curve).

Timbre is okay. Technicalities are bang average.

The treble is rolled off as discussed and hence treble nuances and microdetails are actually missing in a lot of songs I'm familiar with. So if you like sparkle and air in your music and like treble details, best to look elsewhere. The EA is a niche tuning as such, maybe for bassheads that are treble sensitive. Using it at louder volumes makes it shouty. It sells at $50 USD usually, but if you are their FB member or on some sales it can go at $25 USD. I wouldn't recommend it at full price for sure, unless this is a tuning you are sure you want.

Plus the cable is fixed, which doesn't give me much confidence in longevity. Or some might wanna use aftermarket cables/BT adapters.

TLDR: I do think at $50 there are better buds out there. Very anonymous as per its namesake.


----------



## mt877

o0genesis0o said:


> Even if we see him there, he wouldn’t acknowledge us due to the anonymity thing


I wasn't even thinking that way. I don't live anywhere near California. I was just curious if he was planning on going and just clue us in on some of the fine gear seen there. I don't think you'd see any earbuds there though. My interest in head gear goes beyond buds (don't let @WoodyLuvr read this ) and I do have the means (as long as my wife doesn't mind) to pursue some of the expensive stuff, but I'm happy being a mid-tier head gear guy. LOL.


----------



## o0genesis0o

baskingshark said:


> I may be the minority here, but I didn't like the *Earbuds Anonymous*, I sold it away after a few weeks.
> 
> When used with full foams, it is an L shaped set, warm, bassy and smooth with rolled off treble. The bass is midbass focused and north of neutral, with slight subbass roll off. Still better than most other buds in subbass extension, but not as well extended in the bass as the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold for example. Bass bleeds a bit into mids. Lower mids are depressed slightly with a slight boost in the upper mids. When not used with full foams, the bass tightens, but the upper mids can be shouty at louder volumes (fletcher munson curve).
> 
> ...


Thanks for the impressions, mate. I don't think there is any special modding with those EA buds, right? The case and the cable looks alright, though. 

Hopefully with Smabat M4 and Fiio FF series, we will see innovation in the shape and back volume of earbuds. 



mt877 said:


> I wasn't even thinking that way. I don't live anywhere near California. I was just curious if he was planning on going and just clue us in on some of the fine gear seen there. I don't think you'd see any earbuds there though. My interest in head gear goes beyond buds (don't let @WoodyLuvr read this ) and I do have the means (as long as my wife doesn't mind) to pursue some of the expensive stuff, but I'm happy being a mid-tier head gear guy. LOL.


The top-tier seems hit and miss to me somehow. When I auditioned the entire store for my "end game", I found that most IEMs are "huh? that's it??". Only a few are truely exceptional, but you wouldn't guess it from their price or even their graph. 

Anyhow, I think the tolerance level of a person to audio quality changes as well. Here is me:

Before knowing about head-fi gears: "who cares, everything sounds the same. How can those geeks write pages about a pair of earphones?"
After getting the first one: "yes, they are better than usual, but I can't hear much difference against the better one anyway."
After getting way more units: "yes, everything sounds different. I can't stand anything that is not hybrid or tribrid. No fancy cross-over is no no."
After even more units: "maybe single dynamic driver is okay..."
Today: $15 buds go broom broom


----------



## mt877

o0genesis0o said:


> Thanks for the impressions, mate. I don't think there is any special modding with those EA buds, right? The case and the cable looks alright, though.
> 
> Hopefully with Smabat M4 and Fiio FF series, we will see innovation in the shape and back volume of earbuds.
> 
> ...


Nice! Yep, I think the fine folks in the forums that don't include some quality earbuds in their collection are missing out on some of the most affordable good to great sounding pieces of equipment for their listening pleasure. It sure is nice to not have to poke IEMs in your ear canals all the time and also have to deal with the clamping pressure of headphones. Each piece of equipment has it's place in my aural arsenal.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

baskingshark said:


> I may be the minority here, but I didn't like the *Earbuds Anonymous*, I sold it away after a few weeks.
> 
> When used with full foams, it is an L shaped set, warm, bassy and smooth with rolled off treble. The bass is midbass focused and north of neutral, with slight subbass roll off. Still better than most other buds in subbass extension, but not as well extended in the bass as the SMABAT ST10S Black Gold for example. Bass bleeds a bit into mids. Lower mids are depressed slightly with a slight boost in the upper mids. When not used with full foams, the bass tightens, but the upper mids can be shouty at louder volumes (fletcher munson curve).
> 
> ...



Thanks, and you're not along. I got PMs from several people who dont like them much and wanted yo warn me without trashing them publicly.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Anyhow, I think the tolerance level of a person to audio quality changes as well. Here is me:
> 
> Before knowing about head-fi gears: "who cares, everything sounds the same. How can those geeks write pages about a pair of earphones?"
> After getting the first one: "yes, they are better than usual, but I can't hear much difference against the better one anyway."
> ...


This should be made into a meme for sure... LOL


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Also for anayone that has the He 150pros and thinks the upper mids can be quite a bit sibilant. Ininstalled a silcone ring with a standard black foam that was included with them over the ring and it tames the sibilancez made the upper end more lienear but retained pleabty of sparkle and shimmer. The lows and mid were left relatively untouched and just as powerful before. It might be worth trying. Incertainly see this being my standard config from now on with the HE 150Pros.


----------



## fooltoque

Berzerker (1) Red! 





Only a few songs in, but so far they sound brilliant. Thanks @RikudouGoku


----------



## Edric Li (Sep 5, 2022)

Trying to upgrade from a Ksearphone Bell-White Bass. Would love to hear some recommendations from this thread.

I'm looking for a warm and dark sound (when used w/o a foam) in any price range. Heard the Super One is bassy but not sure. Would prefer a physically lighter earbud because the weight of the Bell would sometimes drag itself out of my ears.


----------



## syazwaned

Edric Li said:


> Trying to upgrade from a Ksearphone Bell-White Bass. Would love to hear some recommendations from this thread.
> 
> I'm looking for a warm and dark sound (when used w/o a foam) in any price range. Heard the Super One is bassy but not sure. Would prefer a physically lighter earbud because the weight of the Bell would sometimes drag itself out of my ears.


Yinman 600 bro


----------



## baskingshark

Edric Li said:


> Trying to upgrade from a Ksearphone Bell-White Bass. Would love to hear some recommendations from this thread.
> 
> I'm looking for a warm and dark sound (when used w/o a foam) in any price range. Heard the Super One is bassy but not sure. Would prefer a physically lighter earbud because the weight of the Bell would sometimes drag itself out of my ears.



Warm and dark - Faaeal Rosemary. Needs amplification though, due to the high impedance. L shaped, very warm and dark and smooth, non fatiguing with thick note weight. Not very technical though, lacks details and clarity due to the tuning.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

fooltoque said:


> Berzerker (1) Red!
> 
> 
> 
> Only a few songs in, but so far they sound brilliant. Thanks @RikudouGoku


Berserkers!!! What all the cool kids got!


----------



## Edric Li

syazwaned said:


> Yinman 600 bro





baskingshark said:


> Warm and dark - Faaeal Rosemary. Needs amplification though, due to the high impedance. L shaped, very warm and dark and smooth, non fatiguing with thick note weight. Not very technical though, lacks details and clarity due to the tuning.


Thanks for the recs, they look great. Is it still somewhat true in 2022 that the bassy models are usually the entry-level ones? I guess the Super One is a no for me?


----------



## fooltoque

WoodyLuvr said:


> Berserkers!!! What all the cool kids got!


W-wow! I can join the cool kids?
I feel it happening!


----------



## Ronion

Edric Li said:


> Trying to upgrade from a Ksearphone Bell-White Bass. Would love to hear some recommendations from this thread.
> 
> I'm looking for a warm and dark sound (when used w/o a foam) in any price range. Heard the Super One is bassy but not sure. Would prefer a physically lighter earbud because the weight of the Bell would sometimes drag itself out of my ears.


If you find a warm/bassy bud without foams that can stay in your ears, I’d like to know what it is as well.  The only thing I know of that’s remotely close to that is the Apple EarPods.  They aren’t the highest fidelity buds, but they are fairly warm without foams.  No highs and no low lows though.  I doubt that’s even in the same league as what you already have.


if you don’t mind me asking, what’s the aversion to foams?


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> If you find a warm/bassy bud without foams that can stay in your ears, I’d like to know what it is as well.  The only thing I know of that’s remotely close to that is the Apple EarPods.  They aren’t the highest fidelity buds, but they are fairly warm without foams.  No highs and no low lows though.  I doubt that’s even in the same league as what you already have.
> 
> 
> if you don’t mind me asking, what’s the aversion to foams?


Yinman 2.0 600 brother...


----------



## Ronion (Sep 5, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> The YD30 does not even have enough mid bass. That's why I said it sounds like ER2SE or Tanchjim OLA in stock form. Still, unbelievable price / performance for $15 AUD.
> 
> Of course, I did not mean to say "Look, I can drill a back vent, I have mastered earbuds". However, I'm definitely super proud that I can fine tune an alright pair of buds into darn good without resorting to EQ. Usually, this kind of "tuning" is reserved for influential reviews  . That's what thrills me the most. Can't wait for the next adventure when my shells and drivers arrive.


That’s the w’hole’ thing to me (no pun): tuning buds is a lot more fun than EQ.  Anyone can EQ.  You just have to have the software.  To tune with intent and purpose means you can plug in anywhere, anytime, to any device and hear what you enjoy.  The reason I urge you to get an ear is that different mods react with the pinna in different ways.  You can’t see it without an ear.  If you’re OCD like me, guessing is not a longterm solution.  I don’t suggest you go way overboard like I did.  Life is much easier now.  Although it’s nice to have a rig that uses a molding of my own ears so that I can get an idea about fit issues, it still isn’t perfect for that.  Yesterday was nearly 38 degrees Celsius and neither MX500 or my FiiO fit me in those conditions.  However, PK shells still work perfectly.  So ears are temperature sensitive I guess… and using your own is less productive than one might imagine.  Oh, and if you do put a port in there, you’ll still get a midbass bump.  Just start with a shallow port.  Go stepwise until perfection.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Yinman 2.0 600 brother...


You tell me this while money is basically flying out my window!   Really?!?!  😂 So it does fit you foamless and it’s still warm?


----------



## samandhi (Sep 5, 2022)

Ronion said:


> You tell me this while money is basically flying out my window!   Really?!?!  😂 So it does fit you foamless and it’s still warm?


Yes, really.. That is the perfect time, no?   

It does. They are wood, so they are SUPER light weight and what plastic it has (driver face) is not a slippery type like others I have tried. And the shape lends to sitting right in the shelf of your concha. But YMMV! 

Yes, they are still warm without foams and actually have a bit deeper reach on the bass than the FF3 (to my ears), they just lack a bit of the slam that the FF3 has. Now, keep in mind they are still also very detailed and clear even through being warm (whether foamed or foamless). This is something that both me and @WoodyLuvr were amazed about.

Edit: With as detailed as they are while remaining warm and bassy, I suppose the term "dark" doesn't actually fit (totally) for these though.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

samandhi said:


> Yinman 2.0 600 brother...


One of but a very few earbuds that I can actually listen to sans foams.


----------



## Edric Li

Ronion said:


> If you find a warm/bassy bud without foams that can stay in your ears, I’d like to know what it is as well.  The only thing I know of that’s remotely close to that is the Apple EarPods.  They aren’t the highest fidelity buds, but they are fairly warm without foams.  No highs and no low lows though.  I doubt that’s even in the same league as what you already have.
> 
> 
> if you don’t mind me asking, what’s the aversion to foams?


It is possible that my tragus and anti-tragus form a smaller than usual "seat" for earbuds, but I have found that adding foam to the earbuds often makes the diameter or thickness too large to achieve a tight fit, which results in a loss of bass. I'd either have to research the shape of the earbud, which is surprisingly hard when manufacturers often only advertise their diaphragm diameter, and make sure I get one that is small enough to still fit a foam, or complete give up the possibility of using a foam at the search stage. 

Another thing I dislike about foams is that they seem to loose their thickness over time, which results in a gradual loss of bass. It doesn't bother me from a music enjoyment perspective; I actually find the "intermediate stage" of a foam, when it is not as bassy as when it is brand new but still doesn't completely fail at its job, to sound quite pleasant. But it does matter when I try to compare earbuds with foams on.


----------



## Ronion (Sep 5, 2022)

You guys are killing me with these Yinmans…..  I’ve resisted so long.  Same goes for the toneking and their soundstage. Sad thing is: I know resistance is futile.  The Borg already told me.  The Borg is never wrong.  Everyone knows this.  I love you guys, but why do you want me to get a divorce?

@Edric Li: have you tried PK or Lite Shells?


----------



## Edric Li

WoodyLuvr said:


> One of but a very few earbuds that I can actually listen to sans foams.


In your experience, are most earbuds unlistenably bass-light without foams? Is the Yinman dark sounding? 

I think sounding dark (having not-too-much treble relative to midrange) is probably more important than sounding warm (having enough bass relative to midrange) to achieve my ideal sound. The reason I can't deal with bright sounding earbud is that foams, in my experience, kills midrange and treble almost evenly. If I start with a bright earbud and add foam, I will get a V-shaped signature.


----------



## Edric Li (Sep 5, 2022)

Ronion said:


> @Edric Li: have you tried PK or Lite Shells?


I think PK shell with foam was fine. I had a PK1 before; sold it because it wasn't close to the Bell-White. Any PK-shell earbud you'd recommend? Idk what Lite Shell is, care to fill me in on that?

One thing I like about the Bell-White (over the Bell-Ti and most earbuds today) is that that it is stemless. This means that I can adjust the head to any angle / position I want in my concha, to achieve the best possible fit and bass, with no stem getting in the way. (I actually wear the Bell-White at an angle that is not possible if it had a stem, with the drivers tilting slightly up and backwards in my concha)


----------



## samandhi (Sep 5, 2022)

Edric Li said:


> In your experience, are most earbuds unlistenably bass-light without foams? Is the Yinman dark sounding?
> 
> I think sounding dark (having not-too-much treble relative to midrange) is probably more important than sounding warm (having enough bass relative to midrange) to achieve my ideal sound. The reason I can't deal with bright sounding earbud is that foams, in my experience, kills midrange and treble almost evenly. If I start with a bright earbud and add foam, I will get a V-shaped signature.





Edric Li said:


> I think PK shell with foam was fine. I had a PK1 before; sold it because it wasn't close to the Bell-White. Any PK-shell earbud you'd recommend? Idk what Lite Shell is, care to fill me in on that?
> 
> One thing I like about the Bell-White (over the Bell-Ti and most earbuds today) is that that it is stemless. This means that I can adjust the head to any angle / position I want in my concha, to achieve the best possible fit and bass, with no stem getting in the way. (I actually wear the Bell-White at an angle that is not achieve able with stem, with the drivers tilting slightly up and backwards in my concha)


Then, the Yinman may not be for you. They are neither dark, nor are they stem(less). But just so there is no miscommunication here, the Yinman ARE mid forward (except upper mids which aren't boosted IMO), so the treble, while clear and non-fatiguing is a bit recessed behind the mids. They are just not like a Sony tuning, being dark AND warm to the point of sounding almost veiled (which sounds like what you are looking for).

As to listening to them without foams the problem with most buds without foams is that the pina gain is so high that it hurts the ears on those that are already sensitive to begin with. If the FiiO FF3 didn't do such a "magic show" with their foams (for instance), I would find them too boosted also (without foams they are). Because of this, the bass tends to play "backseat" to the upper mids on most buds, on top of having less quantity of bass to begin with.

Where the Yinmans differ (IMO), is that they are warm, full (almost lush) with or without foam. Keep in mind with these though, they do take to power very well (being 600ohms).


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> There's a couple of Earbuds Anonymous reviews here.
> 
> Edit: Since you're in South Cali are you going to visit the Head-fi CanJam SoCal Sept. 17-18? I thought about going to one of the CanJams when it was close to my area, but never went.



Unless something crazy comes up I will definitely be there!


----------



## Ronion

Edric Li said:


> I think PK shell with foam was fine. I had a PK1 before; sold it because it wasn't close to the Bell-White. Any PK-shell earbud you'd recommend? Idk what Lite Shell is, care to fill me in on that?
> 
> One thing I like about the Bell-White (over the Bell-Ti and most earbuds today) is that that it is stemless. This means that I can adjust the head to any angle / position I want in my concha, to achieve the best possible fit and bass, with no stem getting in the way. (I actually wear the Bell-White at an angle that is not possible if it had a stem, with the drivers tilting slightly up and backwards in my concha)


@JAnonymous5150 had mentioned a PK Bud that is good, but I don’t know of any outside of the DIY realm.  To be honest, I’ve only tried them with DIY drivers, but haven’t heard any that have the signature you are looking for.  There are some cheap old drivers that are definitely warm, but not competitive with these high resolution buds we are all getting used to.  

The Lite shells are the Qian 39 and Venture Electronics makes several: Monk Lite, Zen Lite, Zen LL, and possibly others.  The Zen Lite are definitely warm with foams.  They work best with VE foams so I’d bet they do okay without foams.  Again, no highs and no Low Lows… still though, not a Bose


----------



## Ronion

Oh, @JAnonymous5150, someone wrote a great description of the EA buds here in the last few pages.  It’s very accurate as far as my experience goes.  I want to retune mine as I have faith in them.  They were my first earbud with real bass and I initially got excited over them.  They shell is slightly better fitting than the MX500 in my ear.  Unless you want to retune a commercial bud, I’d doubt they would do anything for you.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Oct 6, 2022)

Edric Li said:


> I think PK shell with foam was fine. I had a PK1 before; sold it because it wasn't close to the Bell-White. Any PK-shell earbud you'd recommend? Idk what Lite Shell is, care to fill me in on that?
> 
> One thing I like about the Bell-White (over the Bell-Ti and most earbuds today) is that that it is stemless. This means that I can adjust the head to any angle / position I want in my concha, to achieve the best possible fit and bass, with no stem getting in the way. (I actually wear the Bell-White at an angle that is not possible if it had a stem, with the drivers tilting slightly up and backwards in my concha)



What price range are you looking at? The Yuin Pk 1, OK2, and OK1 are pretty good (I haven't tried the PK3), the Simphonio/sunrise audio Dragon 2, dragon 2+, and Dragon 3 range from very good to elite (the dragon 3 being on of my favorite high end buds), the ISN Rambo is okay and the Rambo 2 is a modified PK shell and it's better than the original but more expensive, the Shozy Cygnus is good, the Shozy BK in fantastic, the Shozy SG seems to be well liked, but I haven't tried it, and I think the Shozy Gold is overpriced for what it is and doesn't sound as good as the BK, and there are some premium buds from a company called ShoonTH that are modified PK shells that I haven't tried but seem to be well liked as well.

If you want cheaper or budget recommendations let me know!


----------



## syazwaned

Edric Li said:


> Thanks for the recs, they look great. Is it still somewhat true in 2022 that the bassy models are usually the entry-level ones? I guess the Super One is a no for me?


Smabat Super One is also very good, although I won't called it dark. It has vshaped signature, with most statisfying bass.

Rikubuds Berserker also one of L -shaped bass head earbuds. 

If you looking for warm and dark signature, and not bass head, then I xan suggest yinman 2.0 600, Asura 2.0 (not 2.0) and zen 2.0


----------



## syazwaned

Yinman 2.0 600 ohms easily one of the most non fatiguing, and comfortable audio gear I ever have.

It has grand sounding, and wide stage, treble is so statisfying that I able to use it for 4 hours straight! Being someone who move alot, Yinman 2.0 600 make my bottom glued to my chair and indulge with it sweetness for hours.

Last time I feel like this is er2se, but after months of using it I disgusted on how my ear wax came out with tips each time I use it 🤣.

Yinman 2.0 600 ohms is definitely here to stay for very long time 😍


----------



## Ronion (Sep 5, 2022)

I bought an old school PK2 driver for $1/ea a while back and spent some time tuning it today.  I got a satisfactory sound but it took a while.  Basically it sounds like an FF3 minus the bass and with a little treble added in.  If I could get the fit and treble of the PK2 with the Bass and Bombast of the FF3, life would be perfect!  I mean really, is that too much to ask for?  





Edit: I should add that the PK2 driver is a lot more expensive now.  I didn't know what it was when I bought it.  I just liked the way that the holes on the frame were symmetrical and that it has a vintage look.  Absolutely happy I got it.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> I bought an old school PK2 driver for $1/ea a while back and spent some time tuning it today.  I got a satisfactory sound but it took a while.  Basically it sounds like an FF3 minus the bass and with a little treble added in.  If I could get the fit and treble of the PK2 with the Bass and Bombast of the FF3, life would be perfect!  I mean really, is that too much to ask for?


Give it about 4 or 5dB around 100Hz and you've got the RW3000 hehe....


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Give it about 4 or 5dB around 100Hz and you've got the RW3000 hehe....


Now you are speaking my language!  I was worried when I read your description of the RW3000....  That makes me say "definitely a buy"!  I swear you guys are going to trigger my wife.  She is buying area rugs today to cover the flooring I spent countless hours installing....  She says "you have to tie the room in together".  What does that even mean?  In any case, I probably have some leeway for an expenditure.


----------



## Stevehamny (Sep 5, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Now you are speaking my language!  I was worried when I read your description of the RW3000....  That makes me say "definitely a buy"!  I swear you guys are going to trigger my wife.  She is buying area rugs today to cover the flooring I spent countless hours installing....  She says "you have to tie the room in together".  What does that even mean?  In any case, I probably have some leeway for an expenditure.


This one is too easy:


----------



## samandhi (Sep 5, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Now you are speaking my language!  I was worried when I read your description of the RW3000....  That makes me say "definitely a buy"!  I swear you guys are going to trigger my wife.  She is buying area rugs today to cover the flooring I spent countless hours installing....  She says "you have to tie the room in together".  What does that even mean?  In any case, I probably have some leeway for an expenditure.


I need to just shut my yap at this point. To @Ronion's wife: Nope, the Yinman and RW3000 aren't even worth the price of tea in Wichita. Don't buy them. 


Fine print: Yes, they are so worth it.... Get them and sleep on the throw rugs for a week. It's better than that bare floor you worked so hard to install...  See? I can find the positive in anything (within reason).


----------



## Edric Li

Thanks all. Really appreciate the impressions. How is Yinman 600 vs FF3?


----------



## samandhi

Edric Li said:


> Thanks all. Really appreciate the impressions. How is Yinman 600 vs FF3?


These notes are ONLY comparisons to each other, not to other buds or in general.

FF3 = More bass slam, not thick nor thin overall, mid linear, a bit more pina gain, higher quantity treble, much easier to drive (and don't scale too much)

Yinman 2.0 = Deeper bass, warmer overall, thicker mids and more forward, no pina gain boost, crisp but bit recessed treble, harder to drive (scale very well)

Both have superlative technicalities in all regards (staging, imaging, layering/dynamics, etc...), though I think the FF3 are a bit wider, the Yinman might be a bit deeper.


----------



## mt877

fooltoque said:


> W-wow! I can join the cool kids?
> I feel it happening!


Welcome to the Berserker's crew!


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Unless something crazy comes up I will definitely be there!


Cool! I hope you can make it there and have a great time perusing and demoing the wares and talking to the company reps / owners. I know you probably already have a boat load of gear, but maybe you'll find something that really shines for you. Have fun!


----------



## o0genesis0o

Daily shrill for FF3:

So I have spent an entire day listening to my modded YD30 yesterday: on the bus, in the park, in the office, critical listening at night, background music when working, etc. It was quite good, what more do I need. At least that's what I think.

And then I listen to my FF3 via balanced output of my KA3. Oh, my, god. The bass. I guess I am a bass head  The resolution is also higher, even though the treble is not as forward as the modded YD30.

I wonder whether Smabat M4 can match the bass of FF3 in any configuration?


----------



## snoupii

Hi would anyone care to offer me some recommendation? I'm new and looking to try various shells to see how each feels. Up to ~$20 per earbud for now. I'm happy to try any sound signature! PC + dongle source. I've already tried yincrow x6, shoonth 01bl, and qian39. X6 really hurts. 01bl hurts. qian39 is pretty good. Thank you for reading


----------



## syazwaned

Am I crazy to say that yinman 2.0 600 can match senn HD600 in term of timbre naturalness? Can anyone counterpoint me before I going crazy? 😂


----------



## Edric Li

samandhi said:


> These notes are ONLY comparisons to each other, not to other buds or in general.
> 
> FF3 = More bass slam, not thick nor thin overall, mid linear, a bit more pina gain, higher quantity treble, much easier to drive (and don't scale too much)
> 
> ...


Thank you my friend. You really helped me make the decision. I'm gonna order both


----------



## o0genesis0o

Edric Li said:


> Thank you my friend. You really helped me make the decision. I'm gonna order both







Are we fueling addiction / consumerism?

Anyhow, let me know how they compare. I want to buy that crazy 600 ohm buds too. Hopefully my VE megatron can drive it.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio (Oct 2, 2022)

Again made a 3d printed shell for mx500 
Now like a Predator, or...pineapple 


Spoiler














.stl  https://cloud.mail.ru/public/7y1D/reWWzCiqA

Upd: 1 added a dot on shell for left/right channel designation for direct wire connection(without 2pin)


Spoiler


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 6, 2022)

Edric Li said:


> In your experience, are most earbuds unlistenably bass-light without foams? Is the Yinman dark sounding?


That, most often than not, and the fact that most earbuds require foams for a good fit in me' ears. Also, I am extremely sensitive to harsh upper mids and bright/sibilant treble which foams sometimes tames.

Have you tried the Bell-Blue? That is most definitely an upgrade in sound and even build wise compared to the Bell-We. It is stemless, or nearly so like the Bell-We. And it (Bell-Blue) is the only Bell model that I have yet to hear of any reported QA/QC issues on. It has been reported that the Bell-Blue was made at an entirely different factory with even a different source for it's drivers so that may explain why it has not been afflicted with the wretched "Ks Bell Curse".
​2020 - K's 凯 Temperament Bell-Blue 蓝精铃; 32Ω (w/ brass shell; aka "The Smurfs"; "Bell Smurfs"; "Blue Smurfs")​


----------



## Ronion (Sep 6, 2022)

I had a little time today and modded my Tingo TG38.  They are definitely up there with the FiiO FF3 and my 130 Ohm Be build.  The strengths of the Tingo have always been its soundstage and price.  Well, I fixed the tonal balance and I have to say that this is about as good as it gets now.










I made a couple mods a long time ago which is the line in red/purple (sorry, I don’t know my colors.  Can’t really even see them very well) and then opened the port and put new, VE donut foams on it and got the purple/blue Line (which is very close to my curve as you can see).  I am hoping that they donut foams won’t warm the bud up too much as they age.  The Red/Purple line is with really worn foams that have been through the wash.  They worn foams as shown in previous graphs cause buds to ‘warm’.


----------



## yaps66

Ronion said:


> I love you guys, but why do you want me to get a divorce?


You need to assimilate the other half too!


----------



## Edric Li (Sep 6, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> That, most often than not, and the fact that most earbuds require foams for a good fit in me' ears. Also, I am extremely sensitive to harsh upper mids and bright/sibilant treble which foams sometimes tames.
> 
> Have you tried the Bell-Blue? That is most definitely an upgrade sound and even build wise compared to the Bell-We. It is stemless, or nearly so like the Bell-We. And it is the only Bell model that I have yet to hear of any reported QA/QC issues on. It has been reported that the Bell-Blue was made at an entirely different factory with even a different source for it's drivers so that may explain why it has not been afflicted with the "Bell Curse".
> ​2020 - K's 凯 Temperament Bell-Blue 蓝精铃; 32Ω (w/ brass shell; aka "The Smurfs"; "Bell Smurfs"; "Blue Smurfs")​


I remember auditioning the entire K's lineup in Guangzhou back in 2020, using a DMP-Z1, including the Blue. My baseline at the time was a MX985, so the bar was low lol. The model that left the strongest impression on me was the Bell-WE Bass. Perhaps not using any foam was the culprit.

I am extremely sensitive to bright uppermids and treble too  

FWIW I also had QC issue with my Bell-WE Bass. The front half the bell completely fell apart from the back half. Turns out the only thing that held them together was some cheap glue. I glued them back together, and the sound was unaffected. This was after the warranty has expired.


----------



## Ronion

@Edric Li , here’s what the Tingo buds above measured like without foams:



The red/purple line is the same in both graphs and the only modification is foam removal.


----------



## Edric Li

Ronion said:


> @Edric Li , here’s what the Tingo buds above measured like without foams:
> 
> The red/purple line is the same in both graphs and the only modification is foam removal.


Hmm I guess I was wrong about foam suppressing mids and treble evenly... Maybe getting a neutral-bright, TOTL model like Bell-Ti and adding foam is the way to go after all?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 6, 2022)

Edric Li said:


> Hmm I guess I was wrong about foam suppressing mids and treble evenly... Maybe getting a neutral-bright, TOTL model like Bell-Ti and adding foam is the way to go after all?


Bell-Ti 120Ω is not neutral bright though... their primary sound signature is neutral-warm however, their secondary and tertiary sound signatures pull them back towards neutral and over to sharp/detailed with a hint of an airy sparkle that is neither bright nor sibilant. They are very tame, treble friendly, and virtually fatigue-free (*more here*).



Spoiler: Ks Bell-Ti 120Ω - Sound Signature Plot


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 6, 2022)

Edric Li said:


> I remember auditioning the entire K's lineup in Guangzhou back in 2020, using a DMP-Z1, including the Blue. My baseline at the time was a MX985, so the bar was low lol. The model that left the strongest impression on me was the Bell-WE Bass. Perhaps not using any foam was the culprit.
> 
> I am extremely sensitive to bright uppermids and treble too
> 
> FWIW I also had QC issue with my Bell-WE Bass. The front half the bell completely fell apart from the back half. Turns out the only thing that held them together was some cheap glue. I glued them back together, and the sound was unaffected. This was after the warranty has expired.


Yeah, the Bell-Blue are a more subtle performer but once you understand their signature they are much more exciting and detailed. I regret in many ways in choosing the Bell-Ti 120Ω over the Bell-Blue.

Yes, most unfortunately the Bell-We was not exempt from this QA/QC catastrophe by Ksearphone... again, the only Bell model that seemed to have escaped it was the Bell-Blue. One immediately notes their robustness when holding them. Whenever I compare my buddies "smurfs" with my Bell-Tis I notice this each and every time and it has nothing to do with titanium vs brass in this case but rather simply better engineering and finish.


----------



## yaps66

Edric Li said:


> Thank you my friend. You really helped me make the decision. I'm gonna order both


This is the way!


----------



## yaps66

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Unless something crazy comes up I will definitely be there!


Just noticed your profile picture.  Is that a fav band?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

yaps66 said:


> Just noticed your profile picture.  Is that a fav band?



One of many and definitely one of the best indie bands from that early 2000s indie rock mainstream revival. I also just really like that album cover.


----------



## baskingshark

I spent the last 3 hours trying to salvage the Smabat ST20 Pro before forever consigning it to the condemned drawer.
It is a very technical earbud (with a proof of concept added BA driver that is very different from 99% of earbuds). In stock form it is a neutral bright IEM with a massive pinna gain that @Ronion rightly describes as an "icepick" to the ears.

The fit is also a bit iffy due to the large size, but the upper mids area is the main deal-breaker for me. Pity, cause the ST20 Pro really has quite good imaging, soundstage and resolution.

So I've tried double foaming it with heigi foams, even triple foaming, warm sources, playing it at lower volumes (fletcher munson curve) and even EQ. Well only EQ seems to help tame the area consistently, I still get a massive headache with the other methods after using the ST20 Pro for more than 5 minutes.

Bro @Ronion do you have any good pro tips on how to salvage that upper mids pinna gain (pinna pain actually)? It's been one of the more disappointing purchases earbuds-wise for this year.


----------



## chavez

€ 40,90  50%OFF | TRN EMX 14.2mmDynamic Driver Flat Head Plug Earburd Bass Metal In Ear Earphone Super Bass Music Replaceable Cable For EMA TN BAX
https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0wuAyC


EMX is out. Doesnt look bad for $40. Also comes with a removable modular cable which is dope.


----------



## yaps66

JAnonymous5150 said:


> One of many and definitely one of the best indie bands from that early 2000s indie rock mainstream revival. I also just really like that album cover.


I was listening to that particular album. Love the indie vibe going on there! Very enjoyable listen! Thanks!


----------



## koniotaur (Sep 6, 2022)

https://trn-audio.com/trn-emx.html
There's now more info about new trn earbuds, including frequency response graph.


----------



## Edric Li

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yeah, the Bell-Blue are a more subtle performer but once you understand their signature they are much more exciting and detailed. I regret in many ways in choosing the Bell-Ti 120Ω over the Bell-Blue.
> 
> Yes, most unfortunately the Bell-We was not exempt from this QA/QC catastrophe by Ksearphone... again, the only Bell model that seemed to have escaped it was the Bell-Blue. One immediately notes their robustness when holding them. Whenever I compare my buddies "smurfs" with my Bell-Tis I notice this each and every time and it has nothing to do with titanium vs brass in this case but rather simply better engineering and finish.


Sounds promising. Have you posted a Bell-Blue vs Bell-Ti comparison at some point?


----------



## Edric Li

WoodyLuvr said:


> Bell-Ti 120Ω is not neutral bright though... their primary sound signature is neutral-warm however, their secondary and tertiary sound signatures pull them back towards neutral and over to sharp/detailed with a hint of an airy sparkle that is neither bright nor sibilant. They are very tame, treble friendly, and virtually fatigue-free (*more here*).
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Ks Bell-Ti 120Ω - Sound Signature Plot


Thanks for linking this. I for one believe that a warm midrange *is* the correct midrange in earbuds and IEM, due to a combination of phase and fatigue factor. The Etymotic or Moondrop midrange simply sounds odd and annoying to me. I may have to revisit Bell-Ti. My buddy at the local Awedyo Audio actually carries Ksearphone. I'll see if he can lend me a open-box of some sorts...


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Edric Li said:


> Sounds promising. Have you posted a Bell-Blue vs Bell-Ti comparison at some point?


Sort of...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3792#post-16488817
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3506#post-16200773


----------



## JAnonymous5150

yaps66 said:


> I was listening to that particular album. Love the indie vibe going on there! Very enjoyable listen! Thanks!



No problem! I'm glad to hear that my profile pic got someone listening to some good music.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

chavez said:


> € 40,90  50%OFF | TRN EMX 14.2mmDynamic Driver Flat Head Plug Earburd Bass Metal In Ear Earphone Super Bass Music Replaceable Cable For EMA TN BAX
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0wuAyC
> 
> 
> EMX is out. Doesnt look bad for $40. Also comes with a removable modular cable which is dope.



I'm gonna give it a shot. For $8 the TRN EMA is actually a pretty decent budget earbud so I'm interested to see what TRN can go with a bigger budget. Thanks for the link!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Edric Li said:


> Thanks for linking this. I for one believe that a warm midrange *is* the correct midrange in earbuds and IEM, due to a combination of phase and fatigue factor. The Etymotic or Moondrop midrange simply sounds odd and annoying to me. I may have to revisit Bell-Ti. My buddy at the local Awedyo Audio actually carries Ksearphone. I'll see if he can lend me a open-box of some sorts...



Does your buddy need anymore friends? None of the headphone stores around here carry earbuds period. The best I can get around here is whatever Sony/Panasonic/Philips budget earbud model Walmart happens to be selling 🙄


----------



## chavez

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I'm gonna give it a shot. For $8 the TRN EMA is actually a pretty decent budget earbud so I'm interested to see what TRN can go with a bigger budget. Thanks for the link!



They messaged me directly even before it was released lol, they wanted my input once i got EMA, and I suggested a better driver. Looks like they upgraded everything. Since you are biting the bullet, we shall wait for your review. Have fun mate.


----------



## Oscarilbo (Sep 6, 2022)

Hi guys. What earbud would you recommend for orchestral music (film music OST) mainly, in the 100-150 $ range? Intended to be used for CDs listening with a Schiit DAC+AMP stack (Modi 3+ and Heresy). Looking for a natural-warmish signature (I'm interested in good bass and note weight), and of course wide and deep soundstage. What model could be close to that? 

I'm currently using some VE Monk Plus and I'm really impressed, forgot completely how clear and open a pair of earbuds can sound.
Thank so much in advance


----------



## Ronion

baskingshark said:


> I spent the last 3 hours trying to salvage the Smabat ST20 Pro before forever consigning it to the condemned drawer.
> It is a very technical earbud (with a proof of concept added BA driver that is very different from 99% of earbuds). In stock form it is a neutral bright IEM with a massive pinna gain that @Ronion rightly describes as an "icepick" to the ears.
> 
> The fit is also a bit iffy due to the large size, but the upper mids area is the main deal-breaker for me. Pity, cause the ST20 Pro really has quite good imaging, soundstage and resolution.
> ...


Let me port some time this evening.  Right now I’m at work and it’s proving to be a wild one. Basically the best thing I found to do is EQ the pinna gain down by somewhere around 20dB!  I used a bunch of narrow filters, but I’m sure it could be done more wisely with a few filters.  I also found that using the ear hooks @samandhi recommended to work really well as far as stabilizing the bud in my ear.  After everything, I never use them.  Not because they aren’t great, but I have to use my Qudelix to drive them.  With the bass driver that far away, they need some POWER to bring them up to a listenable level.  It turns out that their technicalities aren’t better than the Tingo TG38 anyway.  Really a bummer.  That bud was not ready for prime time.


----------



## koniotaur (Sep 6, 2022)

Emx seems cheaper than I thought it will especially with the 50% off, ordering!
Edit: ordered, big hopes on that one!


----------



## mt877

Oscarilbo said:


> Hi guys. What earbud would you recommend for orchestral music (film music OST) mainly, in the 100-150 $ range? Intended to be used for CDs listening with a Schiit DAC+AMP stack (Modi 3+ and Heresy). Looking for a natural-warmish signature (I'm interested in good bass and note weight), and of course wide and deep soundstage. What model could be close to that?
> 
> I'm currently using some VE Monk Plus and I'm really impressed, forgot completely how clear and open a pair of earbuds can sound.
> Thank so much in advance


The easiest recommendation is the FiiO FF3. Fits well within your budget and is well behaved with either neutral or warm sources and many different genres of music. Excellent bass and soundstage. FiiO provides 3 different sets of foams; bass, balanced and crisp so you can select the set of foams you require for your sound preference. Many have found the bass foams to be their ultimate choice. The cable is fixed, but you get 2 plug ends, 3.5mm SE and 4.4mm Balanced that you can swap out depending on your source. Not sure where you're located, but you can get them from Amazon for the fasted delivery and easy return or visit FiiO's aliexpress store (longer shipping time).


----------



## Edric Li (Sep 6, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Does your buddy need anymore friends? None of the headphone stores around here carry earbuds period. The best I can get around here is whatever Sony/Panasonic/Philips budget earbud model Walmart happens to be selling 🙄


Will you be at canjam socal? His name is Richard and he will have a booth at canjam. Not sure if he will bring any earbuds tho. His store is in Whittier, CA.

Check out the brands he carries https://awedyo.com/

Edit: I just checked with him. He doesn't have stock of the new Bell-Ti, but he has stock of everything else. Unfortunately he doesn't have any open box or a demo unit of Ksearphone.


----------



## mt877

snoupii said:


> Hi would anyone care to offer me some recommendation? I'm new and looking to try various shells to see how each feels. Up to ~$20 per earbud for now. I'm happy to try any sound signature! PC + dongle source. I've already tried yincrow x6, shoonth 01bl, and qian39. X6 really hurts. 01bl hurts. qian39 is pretty good. Thank you for reading


Here's a link to the various shell styles thanks to *@baskingshark; @furyossa; *and* @WoodyLuvr*. If you have smaller ears, then the main recommendation would be a PK style shell. The PK shell uses a smaller driver (14.8mm) vs a MX500 shell like the Yincrow X6 (15.4mm), so a PK shell will be naturally smaller and fit your ears better.


----------



## mt877 (Sep 6, 2022)

Mr.HiAudio said:


> Again made a 3d printed shell for mx500
> Now like a Predator, or...pineapple
> 
> 
> ...


Very nice, thank you for sharing. It looks like the shell is meant for 2 pin connection. What are the drivers and driver covers that snap on the shell that you would recommend to use? Are you using tuning cottons for the driver and using foam to cover the 3 back ports for tuning? I'm not asking for you build secrets, but since you are willing to share the 3D build file, then maybe you can also provide a recommendation for an easy and fun build using your shell?


----------



## Ronion

I think a warm midrange is right for any type of headphone.  When you look at how the head shadow works from a stereo source, it can’t be any other way unless you can deny physics/acoustics or you are headless.


----------



## Oscarilbo

mt877 said:


> The easiest recommendation is the FiiO FF3. Fits well within your budget and is well behaved with either neutral or warm sources and many different genres of music. Excellent bass and soundstage. FiiO provides 3 different sets of foams; bass, balanced and crisp so you can select the set of foams you require for your sound preference. Many have found the bass foams to be their ultimate choice. The cable is fixed, but you get 2 plug ends, 3.5mm SE and 4.4mm Balanced that you can swap out depending on your source. Not sure where you're located, but you can get them from Amazon for the fasted delivery and easy return or visit FiiO's aliexpress store (longer shipping time).


Thank you so much. Looks perfect. Just out pf curiosity, would you think the Fiio FF3 is a better option than Venture Electronics Zen 2.0 ?


----------



## ttorbic

Oscarilbo said:


> Hi guys. What earbud would you recommend for orchestral music (film music OST) mainly, in the 100-150 $ range? Intended to be used for CDs listening with a Schiit DAC+AMP stack (Modi 3+ and Heresy). Looking for a natural-warmish signature (I'm interested in good bass and note weight), and of course wide and deep soundstage. What model could be close to that?
> 
> I'm currently using some VE Monk Plus and I'm really impressed, forgot completely how clear and open a pair of earbuds can sound.
> Thank so much in advance


I would recommend a Grand series from @RikudouGoku or the Serratus from @tgx78. I listen to a lot of OSTs (film mainly, not a lot of games), and absolutely love it for classical and acoustic music. When I want more bass, I use my Alter Rider 1 (Rikubuds), but I recommend you upgrade to a Grand series to benefit from extra technicalities and stage. Just give both of them a message and they'll sort you out


----------



## mt877

Oscarilbo said:


> Thank you so much. Looks perfect. Just out pf curiosity, would you think the Fiio FF3 is a better option than Venture Electronics Zen 2.0 ?


I don't have the VE Zen 2.0 for comparison. Maybe someone that has both can chime in(?).


----------



## mt877

ttorbic said:


> I would recommend a Grand series from @RikudouGoku or the Serratus from @tgx78. I listen to a lot of OSTs (film mainly, not a lot of games), and absolutely love it for classical and acoustic music. When I want more bass, I use my Alter Rider 1 (Rikubuds), but I recommend you upgrade to a Grand series to benefit from extra technicalities and stage. Just give both of them a message and they'll sort you out


Great recommendations, and always good to support our fellow head-fiers. I guess they'll have to decide how far out of their budget they want to spend.


----------



## o0genesis0o

chavez said:


> They messaged me directly even before it was released lol, they wanted my input once i got EMA, and I suggested a better driver. Looks like they upgraded everything. Since you are biting the bullet, we shall wait for your review. Have fun mate.



mate, you must be important. The only time I receive message from a store is when they started shipping my stuffs   



Oscarilbo said:


> Hi guys. What earbud would you recommend for orchestral music (film music OST) mainly, in the 100-150 $ range? Intended to be used for CDs listening with a Schiit DAC+AMP stack (Modi 3+ and Heresy). Looking for a natural-warmish signature (I'm interested in good bass and note weight), and of course wide and deep soundstage. What model could be close to that?
> 
> I'm currently using some VE Monk Plus and I'm really impressed, forgot completely how clear and open a pair of earbuds can sound.
> Thank so much in advance



You are describing FF3 my friend.



Ronion said:


> I think a warm midrange is right for any type of headphone.  When you look at how the head shadow works from a stereo source, it can’t be any other way unless you can deny physics/acoustics or you are headless.



I think so too. I wonder how speakers with downward slopping FR creates that upward tilted FR in Harman target. Can’t comment on the rest of the statement because I have no expertise


----------



## Oscarilbo

o0genesis0o said:


> You are describing FF3 my friend.


Really? So another point for the FF3. I read a couple of reviews and said its a very V shape signature and I’m looking forward something closer to the MonkPlus but FF3 could be as great too


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Oscarilbo said:


> Hi guys. What earbud would you recommend for orchestral music (film music OST) mainly, in the 100-150 $ range? Intended to be used for CDs listening with a Schiit DAC+AMP stack (Modi 3+ and Heresy). Looking for a natural-warmish signature (I'm interested in good bass and note weight), and of course wide and deep soundstage. What model could be close to that?
> 
> I'm currently using some VE Monk Plus and I'm really impressed, forgot completely how clear and open a pair of earbuds can sound.
> Thank so much in advance



The Fiio FF3 like @mt877 said is a good one though it may perhaps be missing a little sparkle on the top end. The Sunrise Audio (Simphonio) Dragon 2 Limited Edition 10th Anniversary from Penon Audio is another one that comes to mind. The Shozy BK is $165 at Penon Audio, but it would also do well I think. And of course the Yincrow RW-2000 would be great if you're willing to order from AliExpress.

These are the buds in your price range that I have tried that come to mind. I hope this helps!


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 6, 2022)

Oscarilbo said:


> Thank you so much. Looks perfect. Just out pf curiosity, would you think the Fiio FF3 is a better option than Venture Electronics Zen 2.0 ?



The Zen 2.0 is too warm and too mid focused IMO to be great for OSTs, IMO.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Oscarilbo said:


> Really? So another point for the FF3. I read a couple of reviews and said its a very V shape signature and I’m looking forward something closer to the MonkPlus but FF3 could be as great too



Putting the ambiguity of the term “V-shape” aside, I don’t think FF3 has enough sparkle up top to be considered V. What is has is a warm and _right_ midrange and supports that with very textured and large feeling bass. For example, when the cello section plays you can hear them coming from forward-right, you can hear texture and rumble, like “brrrrm” sound, rather than just a blob of low-pitched sound. Combining this kind of low-end rendering with large soundstage of ear buds, and you have an excellent pair for epic soundtracks. 

If I can change FF3, I would want to have a bit more energy up top and perhaps a bit more resolution. Right now, it hangs somewhere around Moondrop Blessing 2 level in resolution. I hope the mythical FF5 can approach Andromeda / Monarch / u12t level in resolution.


----------



## ttorbic

o0genesis0o said:


> Putting the ambiguity of the term “V-shape” aside, I don’t think FF3 has enough sparkle up top to be considered V. What is has is a warm and _right_ midrange and supports that with very textured and large feeling bass. For example, when the cello section plays you can hear them coming from forward-right, you can hear texture and rumble, like “brrrrm” sound, rather than just a blob of low-pitched sound. Combining this kind of low-end rendering with large soundstage of ear buds, and you have an excellent pair for epic soundtracks.
> 
> If I can change FF3, I would want to have a bit more energy up top and perhaps a bit more resolution. Right now, it hangs somewhere around Moondrop Blessing 2 level in resolution. I hope the mythical FF5 can approach Andromeda / Monarch / u12t level in resolution.


You need to try out the Serratus or one of the Rikubuds! Serratus has great resolution, treble extension, and nicely textured bass. @nymz listens to the U12t and the Serratus whenever he can


----------



## o0genesis0o

ttorbic said:


> You need to try out the Serratus or one of the Rikubuds! Serratus has great resolution, treble extension, and nicely textured bass. @nymz listens to the U12t and the Serratus whenever he can


I know I should. The speaker-like buds from tgx that nymz reviewed and the grand something by Riku are on my shopping list . Since the FF5 plays a disappear game, I might grab those DIY buds first.


----------



## tendou

koniotaur said:


> Emx seems cheaper than I thought it will especially with the 50% off, ordering!
> Edit: ordered, big hopes on that one!


After 50% off it means 40 USD or 20 USD?


----------



## samandhi

syazwaned said:


> Am I crazy to say that yinman 2.0 600 can match senn HD600 in term of timbre naturalness? Can anyone counterpoint me before I going crazy? 😂


I don't know that I would say match per se', because the Yinman are overall warmer, and while the treble is a tad recessed, it does not have the Sennheiser "veil.


Oscarilbo said:


> Hi guys. What earbud would you recommend for orchestral music (film music OST) mainly, in the 100-150 $ range? Intended to be used for CDs listening with a Schiit DAC+AMP stack (Modi 3+ and Heresy). Looking for a natural-warmish signature (I'm interested in good bass and note weight), and of course wide and deep soundstage. What model could be close to that?
> 
> I'm currently using some VE Monk Plus and I'm really impressed, forgot completely how clear and open a pair of earbuds can sound.
> Thank so much in advance





mt877 said:


> The easiest recommendation is the FiiO FF3. Fits well within your budget and is well behaved with either neutral or warm sources and many different genres of music. Excellent bass and soundstage. FiiO provides 3 different sets of foams; bass, balanced and crisp so you can select the set of foams you require for your sound preference. Many have found the bass foams to be their ultimate choice. The cable is fixed, but you get 2 plug ends, 3.5mm SE and 4.4mm Balanced that you can swap out depending on your source. Not sure where you're located, but you can get them from Amazon for the fasted delivery and easy return or visit FiiO's aliexpress store (longer shipping time).





Oscarilbo said:


> Really? So another point for the FF3. I read a couple of reviews and said its a very V shape signature and I’m looking forward something closer to the MonkPlus but FF3 could be as great too.


The FF3 is decidedly NOT a V signature. The mids are more linear or flat (not recessed nor forward), except a tad boost in the pina gain. But I would also recommend them as an easy win for your ears and for what you are looking for, they really are that good.

The only reason I haven't  recommended the Yinman 600 2.0 is because they are warm enough that they really shine more on vocals than instruments, being mid forward (though they do those very well also and might be right up your alley).

My other "second" to the recs is the RW2000. They really are a fantastic bud also.

In reality most of the suggestions people are throwing out there will get you what you are looking for most likely. I've found that most of the people here that have been around for a while have pretty good ears. I'm sure the new people here do too, I just haven't gotten to know them yet.

I wish the Moondrop Chaconne had more bass quantity because they have the most precise and accurate sound for instrumentals my ears have ever heard. Even so, I absolutely recommend them for classical and the like. But they are also out of your budget.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Hey @WoodyLuvr or any of you other tube guys, you can replace a 6N3 with a 5670 or 5670w without an adapter right?

Sorry for the off topic post, but I picked up a cheap tube hybrid amp and DAC stack at a garage sale and when I look up the amp a bunch of people are recommending swapping a 5670 for the stock 6N3 so I thought I would ask to make sure I don't need an adapter. My tube expert friend isn't available to ask do thanks for any help you guys can give!


----------



## mt877

o0genesis0o said:


> I wonder whether Smabat M4 can match the bass of FF3 in any configuration?


WAG of the day: I think the M4 Super One driver will be the one to deliver the goods. Well, that's my WAG, let's see if I'm right. Waiting for my Super One driver set to be delivered. It will be great getting Super One buds (approx. $300) performance from the M4 base shell and a $30 Super One driver set. In the Smabat quote below they mention "slightly higher distortion than the blue unit". I believe they are referring to the Super One bud's blue tuned shell.

Here's how the Smabat product page describes the Super One driver:


> *So far, the best driver unit from smabat technology is perfect, with the strongest bass output among the large size driver units，
> 
> Only slightly higher distortion than the blue unit.*
> 
> (Not only suitable for classical music but also for "welcome to jurassic world", suitable for modern pop vocal music ADELE songs or Rb Bruno Mars music)


----------



## Ronion

baskingshark said:


> I spent the last 3 hours trying to salvage the Smabat ST20 Pro before forever consigning it to the condemned drawer.
> It is a very technical earbud (with a proof of concept added BA driver that is very different from 99% of earbuds). In stock form it is a neutral bright IEM with a massive pinna gain that @Ronion rightly describes as an "icepick" to the ears.
> 
> The fit is also a bit iffy due to the large size, but the upper mids area is the main deal-breaker for me. Pity, cause the ST20 Pro really has quite good imaging, soundstage and resolution.
> ...






That’s the EQ I use.





that is the hooks to stabilize them


o0genesis0o said:


> I think so too. I wonder how speakers with downward slopping FR creates that upward tilted FR in Harman target. Can’t comment on the rest of the statement because I have no expertise


When I calibrated my Home Theater, I went with flat on axis, constant directivity speakers angled in a stereo triangle with 4 subs equalized and time aligned at the listening position.  I took two microphones that could fit in my ears and measured each of them right at the center of the listening position with both speakers firing as you listen in stereo.  You can tell they are positioned perfectly by the cancellation at 20kHz. The resultant graph looked like this:



when I sat in that spot with those microphones in my ears, the resultant graph looked like this:



now the mics are laterally displaced by half the width of my head and the 20kHz cancellation doesn’t exist, but headphone graphs should look more like that but with an ear canal resonance at 2.5-3kHz (ish) added in as my ear canals are blocked.  When you think about the fact that the average width of a human head is about 1,500Hz… beneath that frequency, you’ll hear both speakers.  Above that, you’ll hear a lot more of the speaker on your ear’s ipsilateral side.  So the left ear will hear more of the left speaker and the right ear, the right speaker.  It won’t be a hard and fast cut, but a smooth transition from one condition to the next.  No 2 pinna are the same.  The graphs ultimately shouldn’t look exactly like that, but they should look something like that.  Smoother would be better.


Oscarilbo said:


> Really? So another point for the FF3. I read a couple of reviews and said its a very V shape signature and I’m looking forward something closer to the MonkPlus but FF3 could be as great too


The FF3 is actually mildly dark in general, but it can run the gamut of signatures with the different foams.  I’d say it’s very hard to go wrong with it.


----------



## tendou

chavez said:


> They messaged me directly even before it was released lol, they wanted my input once i got EMA, and I suggested a better driver. Looks like they upgraded everything. Since you are biting the bullet, we shall wait for your review. Have fun mate.


What is the sound signature and tuning for this?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> WAG of the day: I think the M4 Super One driver will be the one to deliver the goods. Well, that's my WAG, let's see if I'm right. Waiting for my Super One driver set to be delivered. It will be great getting Super One buds (approx. $300) performance from the M4 base shell and a $30 Super One driver set. In the Smabat quote below they mention "slightly higher distortion than the blue unit". I believe they are referring to the Super One bud's blue tuned shell.
> 
> Here's how the Smabat product page describes the Super One driver:



I can't wait to test the Super Ones against the M4 with the Super One drivers in it to see how close the performance is.


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hey @WoodyLuvr or any of you other tube guys, you can replace a 6N3 with a 5670 or 5670w without an adapter right?
> 
> Sorry for the off topic post, but I picked up a cheap tube hybrid amp and DAC stack at a garage sale and when I look up the amp a bunch of people are recommending swapping a 5670 for the stock 6N3 so I thought I would ask to make sure I don't need an adapter. My tube expert friend isn't available to ask do thanks for any help you guys can give!


You should be good to go replacing the 6N3 with either the 5670 (standard) or 5670W (MilSpec).

See attached, search for 6N3, shows 5670 and shows matching pinouts.


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I can't wait to test the Super Ones against the M4 with the Super One drivers in it to see how close the performance is.


I think you mentioned you had the Super One buds in a previous message, but it didn't catch my attention. I'm really curious now. If you have some time can you do a quicky Super One vs FF3 comparison? It would be interesting to see how they stack up against each other.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> That’s the EQ I use.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mate, you are an uber audio geek . Mad respect.


----------



## syazwaned

samandhi said:


> I don't know that I would say match per se', because the Yinman are overall warmer, and while the treble is a tad recessed, it does not have the Sennheiser "veil.


Thanks for the insanity check, my mind got crazy sometime


----------



## Ronion

Thank


o0genesis0o said:


> Mate, you are an uber audio geek . Mad respect.


Thank you brother 🙏 Do what I can.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> You should be good to go replacing the 6N3 with either the 5670 (standard) or 5670W (MilSpec).
> 
> See attached, search for 6N3, shows 5670 and shows matching pinouts.



Perfect! This is exactly what I was looking for. I kept finding recommendations to make the change, but couldn't find if I needed an adapter, but the pin diagram next to the tubes on this document makes it easy peasy to answer that. Thanks bro!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> I think you mentioned you had the Super One buds in a previous message, but it didn't catch my attention. I'm really curious now. If you have some time can you do a quicky Super One vs FF3 comparison? It would be interesting to see how they stack up against each other.



I am waiting for the M4s and the Super Ones to arrive as we speak. They are at customs according to tracking. That's why I was saying in my othrt post that I can't wait to compare the M4s with the Super One drivers to the actual Super Ones to see what the differences are, if any.

I will definitely do a Super One versus FF3 test for you when the shipment shows up. Just remind me if I forget and you see me talking about new M4s and the like and I haven't done a Super One to FF3 comparison for you yet.


----------



## RimaLV2 (Sep 7, 2022)

$39 flagship earbuds TRN EMX just hit the store


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ready to burn myself with a soldering iron


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 7, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hey @WoodyLuvr or any of you other tube guys, you can replace a 6N3 with a 5670 or 5670w without an adapter right?
> 
> Sorry for the off topic post, but I picked up a cheap tube hybrid amp and DAC stack at a garage sale and when I look up the amp a bunch of people are recommending swapping a 5670 for the stock 6N3 so I thought I would ask to make sure I don't need an adapter. My tube expert friend isn't available to ask do thanks for any help you guys can give!





mt877 said:


> You should be good to go replacing the 6N3 with either the 5670 (standard) or 5670W (MilSpec).
> 
> See attached, search for 6N3, shows 5670 and shows matching pinouts.





JAnonymous5150 said:


> Perfect! This is exactly what I was looking for. I kept finding recommendations to make the change, but couldn't find if I needed an adapter, but the pin diagram next to the tubes on this document makes it easy peasy to answer that. Thanks bro!


Concur with *@mt877*. You should be fine as 6N3/6N3P and 5670/5670W are interchangeable as the 5670 9-pin miniature twin triode tube is of the same family as the 6N3P, 396A, and 2C51.

Just so you know the 6N3P is simply a Russian made direct equivalent of the 5670 which is simply an upgraded 2C51 and was actually designated as "6H3П" in Russian Cyrillic which looked like "6N3P" to westerners so it stuck! Chinese have in-turn copied it heavily and have also continued to call it "6N3P".

*A word of warning*
There a number of Chinese hybrid amps in existence that have mislabeled the 6N2 as 6N3... the 6N2 is a Russian clone of the 6AX7, so not even the same family as the 6N3/6N3P/5670/396A/2C51.* Double check to make sure they are indeed 6N3 and not 6N2.*


----------



## jeejack

o0genesis0o said:


> Ready to burn myself with a soldering iron


Nice ! What drivers do you have there?


----------



## o0genesis0o

jeejack said:


> Nice ! What drivers do you have there?



These two:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000177042681.html?spm=a2g0o.order_detail.0.0.55f6f19c7koPdf 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002096357615.html?spm=a2g0o.order_detail.0.0.55f6f19c7koPdf
I plan to use the fancy titanium one in a metal shell and the bass one in a normal MX500 shell.


----------



## chavez

o0genesis0o said:


> These two:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000177042681.html?spm=a2g0o.order_detail.0.0.55f6f19c7koPdf
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002096357615.html?spm=a2g0o.order_detail.0.0.55f6f19c7koPdf
> I plan to use the fancy titanium one in a metal shell and the bass one in a normal MX500 shell.



One advice, as for the shells, the best among the stock mx500… black one is the best sounding.


----------



## jeejack

o0genesis0o said:


> These two:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000177042681.html?spm=a2g0o.order_detail.0.0.55f6f19c7koPdf
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002096357615.html?spm=a2g0o.order_detail.0.0.55f6f19c7koPdf
> I plan to use the fancy titanium one in a metal shell and the bass one in a normal MX500 shell.


The 64 ohm drivers are in two versions, one with metal mesh and one with plastic faceplates. You have to ask for the model you want


----------



## Buchi

Is anyone using the Smabat S20? I'd like to hear others opinion, where it can be improved and what could be the next step from it.


----------



## o0genesis0o

First DIY ear buds ever. It was scary to solder. At least I tried to yank the soldering joint after completion and nothing moved, so I hope everything is fine. I forgot to check the writing on the shells, so R is L and L is R now   These are the "150 ohm bass speakers", btw.

How do they sound?

First up, FR measurement against the golden boy FF3 (aligned at 500hz)




Subjective impressions by wife (Sony XM4 over-ear fangirl, btw):

"The sound seems to come in front of me rather than from the ear buds? Strange."
"Very good. Very natural"
"You should sell these. How much is the material costs? That cheap?? Why do you buy those thousand dollars IEM???"
Being 150 Ohm, this thing needs power. My Hidizs DAP is out of question. Its wimpy 70mW single ended output is no match. Yes, it gets loud after pushing the volume, but it sounds sloppy and muddy. Way better result with KA3 and Creative X1 (a surprisingly good and cheap dongle that I am reviewing, btw).

Now, what do I think?

Price / performance ratio of ear buds is broken. 
The resolution is meh. Adequate, but just average in the grand scheme. 3/5
Perhaps because of the strong bass yet weaker resolution, these buds don't sound as impressive as FF3.
I might add some foams to control the mid bass somehow. If this is IEM, I would open up front vents or add a leak to the ear tips. Not sure what to do with ear buds.



jeejack said:


> The 64 ohm drivers are in two versions, one with metal mesh and one with plastic faceplates. You have to ask for the model you want


Mine has plastic faceplates. Does that mean I cannot use them with my metal shells? I couldn't cut or sand the metal to add a cut for voice coil, so I left that titanium driver alone for now.


----------



## jeejack

o0genesis0o said:


> First DIY ear buds ever. It was scary to solder. At least I tried to yank the soldering joint after completion and nothing moved, so I hope everything is fine. I forgot to check the writing on the shells, so R is L and L is R now   These are the "150 ohm bass speakers", btw.
> 
> How do they sound?
> 
> ...


You can use it bro with metal shells( 64 ohm). Your 150 ohm buds are not rdy. Use the tuning materials you bought 😉


----------



## Oscarilbo

samandhi said:


> The FF3 is decidedly NOT a V signature. The mids are more linear or flat (not recessed nor forward), except a tad boost in the pina gain. But I would also recommend them as an easy win for your ears and for what you are looking for, they really are that good.
> 
> The only reason I haven't  recommended the Yinman 600 2.0 is because they are warm enough that they really shine more on vocals than instruments, being mid forward (though they do those very well also and might be right up your alley).
> 
> ...


wow.. so.. How much do the FF3 get close to the Chaconne? I just saw a video review from Zoes Panthera and he loved the FF3 so much he said he now had to get the Chaconne out and compare. I mean, I can wait longer and save for the Chaconne if they are what they say they are.

Btw, for the price of the Chaconne how would they compare to an IEM like the Blessing 2?


----------



## baskingshark

Buchi said:


> Is anyone using the Smabat S20? I'd like to hear others opinion, where it can be improved and what could be the next step from it.



There are 2 variants of the Smabat ST20. The non pro (which is warmer and cheaper, conventional single DD) and the ST20 Pro which has an added BA, cold neutral bright tuning.

I don't have the non-pro one, but I have the ST20 Pro and please avoid it and save your money. It is super shouty at the upper mids, cannot tolerate it for more than a few minutes without EQ. The fit is also very iffy. It is quite technical but considering it is close to $300ish, I would rate it maybe 2/5 without mods.


----------



## Braekfast

o0genesis0o said:


> -snip-
> Being 150 Ohm, this thing needs power. My Hidizs DAP is out of question. Its wimpy 70mW single ended output is no match. Yes, it gets loud after pushing the volume, but it sounds sloppy and muddy. Way better result with KA3 and Creative X1 (a surprisingly good and cheap dongle that I am reviewing, btw).
> 
> Now, what do I think?
> ...


Thanks for the write-up! I'm also looking into placing my first parts order soon for diy buds. I was so impressed by the berserker 2's I got from Rikudougoku that I spent some time digging out the old soldering iron from the attic. 

I've been eyeing the same 150 ohm blue glue drivers. Current plan would be to get 2 cheaper 32ohm drivers like the19-21 Red Dot or N53 blue glue for practise, and since they don't require amplification I'd be able to give them to my friends afterwards. And then keep the 150ohm blue glue for myself. 
You mention they need some amplification, but how much would you say is necessary? They seem fairly sensitive, but I only have a small dongle dac (VE Odyssey HD) so maybe that's not enough and I'd better look into getting something stronger.


----------



## samandhi

Oscarilbo said:


> wow.. so.. How much do the FF3 get close to the Chaconne? I just saw a video review from Zoes Panthera and he loved the FF3 so much he said he now had to get the Chaconne out and compare. I mean, I can wait longer and save for the Chaconne if they are what they say they are.
> 
> Btw, for the price of the Chaconne how would they compare to an IEM like the Blessing 2?


That is a tough question because the Chaconne and FF3 are totally different tuning. If the FF3 are a tube sound, the Chaconne are decidedly solid state. That isn't to say they are digital sounding, because they aren't. They are very smooth. They are detail monsters and have mids and treble that are perfectly tuned (to my ears), with no boosted pina gain (so they aren't fatiguing to me). Where they fall short is in the bass department. It is all there but is so low in volume compared to the rest of the signature that they really are best for music that doesn't rely heavily on it. There is enough there to give strings their lower sound, and piano in lower keys though, or example. 

I would call the Chaconne more analytical, and the FF3 more fun, but that is not a knock on either bud because they both cross that line a bit. Also, the FF3 are MUCH better as all-rounders. If all you want in buds is OST, classical, acoustic, vocals then Chaconne fit that roll superbly. The FF3 can almost hang in those areas but are better as all-rounders. This actually might make the FF3 more valuable if you plan on using them for anything else because the Chaconne are very niche (they don't sound NEAR as good with rock for instance), while the FF3 excel at pretty much everything. 

If you compare either bud to an IEM such as the Blessing 2, you might be disappointed with both (though they might share some characteristics) just because they aren't really the same sound at all (some ways much better, some ways worse, depending on how one judges sound). Having said that, I have not heard the Blessing 2, so I can't comment other than to say buds are actually more comparable to open back headphones rather than IEMs IMO. 

Bottom line - if you are looking for something ONLY for the music you described, the Chaconne can't be beat IMO, but if you plan on listening to anything else, the FF3 are a great choice. If you are a basshead or even a basshead and don't know it, you will hate the Chaconne and think they have no bass at all (though they definitely do, and can go pretty deep when called to do so). If you are super sensitive to pina gain boost the FF3 might be painful for the first few days. That being said, either one will be a great addition to your collection I would think.


Braekfast said:


> Thanks for the write-up! I'm also looking into placing my first parts order soon for diy buds. I was so impressed by the berserker 2's I got from Rikudougoku that I spent some time digging out the old soldering iron from the attic.
> 
> I've been eyeing the same 150 ohm blue glue drivers. Current plan would be to get 2 cheaper 32ohm drivers like the19-21 Red Dot or N53 blue glue for practise, and since they don't require amplification I'd be able to give them to my friends afterwards. And then keep the 150ohm blue glue for myself.
> You mention they need some amplification, but how much would you say is necessary? They seem fairly sensitive, but I only have a small dongle dac (VE Odyssey HD) so maybe that's not enough and I'd better look into getting something stronger.


Given that I don't know the efficiency of those drivers, I will assume it is something like 105dB/mW. If that is the case, then you really only need (to reach 110dBSPL):

4mW
.77Vrms
5.2mA
Keep in mind that is only exactly what is needed. It might take a bit more to drive them "properly" though.


----------



## drewbadour (Sep 7, 2022)

Braekfast said:


> Thanks for the write-up! I'm also looking into placing my first parts order soon for diy buds. I was so impressed by the berserker 2's I got from Rikudougoku that I spent some time digging out the old soldering iron from the attic.
> 
> I've been eyeing the same 150 ohm blue glue drivers. Current plan would be to get 2 cheaper 32ohm drivers like the19-21 Red Dot or N53 blue glue for practise, and since they don't require amplification I'd be able to give them to my friends afterwards. And then keep the 150ohm blue glue for myself.
> You mention they need some amplification, but how much would you say is necessary? They seem fairly sensitive, but I only have a small dongle dac (VE Odyssey HD) so maybe that's not enough and I'd better look into getting something stronger.


The 150ohm Blue Glue is what Riku uses in the Lancer 1 IIRC - it can be driven fine from my laptop headphone jack or from Apple dongle and phone - just need to crank up volume a tad bit compared to the 32ohm buds I have - they can still get louder than my ears can handle so they're not too hard to drive!


----------



## Ronion (Sep 7, 2022)

The Red Dots are a lot of fun.  Really easy to tune and hard to screw up. They are a really good first bud build.  Not the highest resolution drivers, but they are pleasant enough with a decent soundstage.  The CatEar Mimi use those drivers, but they are better in an MX500 shell.  A nice simple build with them would be an Medium Density Horseshoe foam on the shell.  Opening the faux bass port per @Rary’s guide with a 0.8mm hole and you’ve got e very nice balanced, extended range bud.  You can always plug the faux port from the outside exit hole if it’s too much bass for you.  Make sure you get the hole clear and even by reaming the hole from both sides.  Check its uniformity with your phone light.  You can also brighten them up with different foams.  Don’t accept your first effort as your best effort.


----------



## Ronion

One other thing: in my experience, Red Dots do not have the best quality control and you are better off buying in bulk.  Some of them are bass shy.  I have no idea why, but thats how they measure—at a rate of about 1-2 out of 10.  Yes, I have that many.


----------



## Braekfast

samandhi said:


> -snip-





drewbadour said:


> -snip-


Thanks! I'll start off with my current dongle then. If it still turns out to need more, I can always look locally for a new amp. 


Ronion said:


> The Red Dots are a lot of fun.  Really easy to tune and hard to screw up. They are a really good first bud build.  Not the highest resolution drivers, but they are pleasant enough with a decent soundstage.  The CatEar Mimi use those drivers, but they are better in an MX500 shell.  A nice simple build with them would be an Medium Density Horseshoe foam on the shell.  Opening the faux bass port per @Rary’s guide with a 0.8mm hole and you’ve got e very nice balanced, extended range bud.  You can always plug the faux port from the outside exit hole if it’s too much bass for you.  Make sure you get the hole clear and even by reaming the hole from both sides.  Check its uniformity with your phone light.  You can also brighten them up with different foams.  Don’t accept your first effort as your best effort.


Thank you for the tuning tips. Would you recommend any other drivers as "first bud friendly"? Just so I can weigh my options. I'm assuming all the drivers listed in Rary's guide are at least "good", but I'm sure there are some in there that are better than others. 


Ronion said:


> One other thing: in my experience, Red Dots do not have the best quality control and you are better off buying in bulk.  Some of them are bass shy.  I have no idea why, but thats how they measure—at a rate of about 1-2 out of 10.  Yes, I have that many.


Dang, I was afraid of QC issues. Is it a Red Dot specific thing, or just DIY drivers in general? I'd like to keep the budget for my initial foray into diy buds a bit contained, so buying 10 of each driver would make that a bit difficult


----------



## Buchi

Thanks. I do have the non pro model and the fit is as you described. It has a wide stage, deep bass but pinna gain is still an issue so it can be fatiguing at times. I feel the non pro S20 has more upper mid presence looking at the smabat graph, so it might be worse than the ST20 pro. On the other hand, the M2s Pro with Super Point driver is a more relaxed earbud. I want the YinMan 600 as my next earbud but I was hoping I could get some impression from someone that has both.

I'm not a pro is describing sound but something's are very obvious even to an untrained ears.



baskingshark said:


> There are 2 variants of the Smabat ST20. The non pro (which is warmer and cheaper, conventional single DD) and the ST20 Pro which has an added BA, cold neutral bright tuning.
> 
> I don't have the non-pro one, but I have the ST20 Pro and please avoid it and save your money. It is super shouty at the upper mids, cannot tolerate it for more than a few minutes without EQ. The fit is also very iffy. It is quite technical but considering it is close to $300ish, I would rate it maybe 2/5 without mods.


----------



## jeejack

Braekfast said:


> Thanks for the write-up! I'm also looking into placing my first parts order soon for diy buds. I was so impressed by the berserker 2's I got from Rikudougoku that I spent some time digging out the old soldering iron from the attic.
> 
> I've been eyeing the same 150 ohm blue glue drivers. Current plan would be to get 2 cheaper 32ohm drivers like the19-21 Red Dot or N53 blue glue for practise, and since they don't require amplification I'd be able to give them to my friends afterwards. And then keep the 150ohm blue glue for myself.
> You mention they need some amplification, but how much would you say is necessary? They seem fairly sensitive, but I only have a small dongle dac (VE Odyssey HD) so maybe that's not enough and I'd better look into getting something stronger.


Good pick bro ! Very good DND drivers for only  50  5$ build! N52 blue glue is the most used driver


----------



## samandhi (Sep 7, 2022)

Buchi said:


> I want the YinMan 600 as my next earbud but I was hoping I could get some impression from someone that has both.


Do you mean that you are looking for a comparison between the Yinman and the M2s Pro with the SO 100ohm driver, or the Yinman and the ST20?


----------



## Buchi

samandhi said:


> Do you mean that you are looking for a comparison between the Yinman and the M2s Pro with the SO 100ohm driver, or the Yinman and the ST20?


Comparison between the 2 won't be bad but I read the Yinman is warm sounding like the ST20. I wouldn't want to have 2 similar sounding buds.


----------



## samandhi

Buchi said:


> Comparison between the 2 won't be bad but I read the Yinman is warm sounding like the ST20. I wouldn't want to have 2 similar sounding buds.


I wasn't sure because I don't have nor have heard the ST20 series at all, but I have the M2s Pro and with the SO bio 100ohm driver (which is my favorite in that shell at this point). 

While I haven't heard the ST20, I have heard the "Smabat" house sound in quite a few different of the brand, and I can tell you that even if they are warm, it would be their tertiary signature, and would sound vastly different than the Yinman, which are warm as part of their primary signature. Plus, the Yinman have no pina gain boost, and the treble is recessed a bit (which will change the overall sound even more to the warm side).  

Side Note: Hopefully I have made @WoodyLuvr proud with that "signature" declaration... I'm not sure if it is good OR bad when I start thinking like him?! LOL


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Oscarilbo said:


> wow.. so.. How much do the FF3 get close to the Chaconne? I just saw a video review from Zoes Panthera and he loved the FF3 so much he said he now had to get the Chaconne out and compare. I mean, I can wait longer and save for the Chaconne if they are what they say they are.
> 
> Btw, for the price of the Chaconne how would they compare to an IEM like the Blessing 2?



I know you didn't ask me, but I have to say that I much prefer the FF3s to the Chaconnes. I only kept the Chaconnes for about a month and then moved them. Though I will also say that the FF3s and the Chaconnes are two very different earbuds. 

I may be in the minority in saying this, but I think there are earbuds out there that are similar to the Chaconnes in sound sig, but are better executed to varying degrees. The Yincrow RW3000s for example, provide a similar sound signature that actually fills out better and provides more detail, IMO. The FF3s, as I have said before, have a huge presentation that imparts such power to the music and I haven't heard another bud that equals it


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I may be in the minority in saying this, but I think there are earbuds out there that are similar to the Chaconnes in sound sig, but are better executed to varying degrees. The Yincrow RW3000s for example, provide a similar sound signature that actually fills out better and provides more detail, IMO.


I think that you are right in that the RW3000 is similar, and if you are NOT sensitive to a boosted pina gain, that could be a great alternative. 

Having said that, (and only IMO, as I also value your opinion) I personally find the Chaconne to be quite a bit more detailed, yet smooth (not as aggressive as the RW3000) and the technicalities are quite a bit better overall (WITH the right type of music, dynamics, staging, imaging, layering, etc...). Horns and bells are the Chaconne's specialty (think OG Star Wars trilogy for instance).

 This is not necessarily a bad thing though because the RW3000 are MUCH better as all-rounders because of it, while retaining a "similar" signature. I might even go so far as saying that the RW3000 is like a mash-up of the RW2000 and the Chaconne IMHO.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> I think that you are right in that the RW3000 is similar, and if you are NOT sensitive to a boosted pina gain, that could be a great alternative.
> 
> Having said that, (and only IMO, as I also value your opinion) I personally find the Chaconne to be quite a bit more detailed, yet smooth (not as aggressive as the RW3000) and the technicalities are quite a bit better overall (WITH the right type of music, dynamics, staging, imaging, layering, etc...). Horns and bells are the Chaconne's specialty (think OG Star Wars trilogy for instance).
> 
> This is not necessarily a bad thing though because the RW3000 are MUCH better as all-rounders because of it, while retaining a "similar" signature. I might even go so far as saying that the RW3000 is like a mash-up of the RW2000 and the Chaconne IMHO.



A lot of people would agree with you which is why I noted that I may be in the minority. I would like to add one thing about the detail: To me the Chaconnes come across with a lot of detail/micro detail from treble extension, but the RW3000s have more detail across the entire range due to a more agile/articulate low end, IMO. I think both are pretty highly detailed and I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

Both are definitely good buds and yhe reason I brought up the Yincrows is because they fill a similar role to what I was looking to the Chaconnes to fill and the Chaconnes were troublesome for me so I thought it might be helpful to mention.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> A lot of people would agree with you which is why I noted that I may be in the minority. I would like to add one thing about the detail: To me the Chaconnes come across with a lot of detail/micro detail from treble extension, but the RW3000s have more detail across the entire range due to a more agile/articulate low end, IMO. I think both are pretty highly detailed and I didn't mean to imply otherwise.
> 
> Both are definitely good buds and yhe reason I brought up the Yincrows is because they fill a similar role to what I was looking to the Chaconnes to fill and the Chaconnes were troublesome for me so I thought it might be helpful to mention.


Well, either way, I am screwed. I HAD made the decision to get rid of some to make room, but I just can't seem to part with any of them. And it is basically for this very reason; I just find something absolutely grand about all of the ones I currently have. What a dilemma! 

And, if you were wondering, I DO indeed listen to all of them (except maybe the EB2S, mostly because the M2s Pro are similar, just better, and the DUNU Alpha1, because the Maria II are similar but better in every way).


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> A lot of people would agree with you which is why I noted that I may be in the minority. I would like to add one thing about the detail: To me the Chaconnes come across with a lot of detail/micro detail from treble extension, but the RW3000s have more detail across the entire range due to a more agile/articulate low end, IMO. I think both are pretty highly detailed and I didn't mean to imply otherwise.
> 
> Both are definitely good buds and yhe reason I brought up the Yincrows is because they fill a similar role to what I was looking to the Chaconnes to fill and the Chaconnes were troublesome for me so I thought it might be helpful to mention.


I guess I'm also in that minority... RW3000 is one of my favorites when it's paired with a warm source like a Sony DAP or hybrid tube amp. I don't like how they sound when paired with a neutral source. They present as a little bright / fatiguing for my tastes with a neutral source. That's just me, everybody will have their own synergistic pairings that work for them.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Well, either way, I am screwed. I HAD made the decision to get rid of some to make room, but I just can't seem to part with any of them. And it is basically for this very reason; I just find something absolutely grand about all of the ones I currently have. What a dilemma!
> 
> And, if you were wondering, I DO indeed listen to all of them (except maybe the EB2S, mostly because the M2s Pro are similar, just better, and the DUNU Alpha1, because the Maria II are similar but better in every way).



I feel you bro. I started out thinking I was only going to keep three pairs of premium buds and sell the rest. You can see how that worked out...😂

I am getting rid of some of them, but no matter how I work it out in my mind, I'm not going to be getting back down to three.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 7, 2022)

mt877 said:


> I guess I'm also in that minority... RW3000 is one of my favorites when it's paired with a warm source like a Sony DAP or hybrid tube amp. I don't like how they sound when paired with a neutral source. They present as a little bright / fatiguing for my tastes with a neutral source. That's just me, everybody will have their own synergistic pairings that work for them.



Would ya look at that fellas? I'm not the only one after all! And here I was thinkin' I might be crazy...


----------



## Ronion

Braekfast said:


> Thanks! I'll start off with my current dongle then. If it still turns out to need more, I can always look locally for a new amp.
> 
> Thank you for the tuning tips. Would you recommend any other drivers as "first bud friendly"? Just so I can weigh my options. I'm assuming all the drivers listed in Rary's guide are at least "good", but I'm sure there are some in there that are better than others.
> 
> Dang, I was afraid of QC issues. Is it a Red Dot specific thing, or just DIY drivers in general? I'd like to keep the budget for my initial foray into diy buds a bit contained, so buying 10 of each driver would make that a bit difficult


It’s the only driver I’ve had QC issues with barring old salvaged drivers, but it’s also the only driver I have so many of.  The 150BG is also a nice first driver.  It sounds good even when tuned poorly like the example I showed earlier in the thread.  Any of the LCP or Bio drivers are easy to tune as well.  Commercial offerings I’ve tried aren’t the best with these drivers, but you can still hear the potential.


JAnonymous5150 said:


> Would ya look at that fellas? I'm not the only one after all! I here I was thinkin' I might be crazy...


The jury is still out…  I would also like to present as evidence that you hang out with us virtually….  The case is really not going well.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> It’s the only driver I’ve had QC issues with barring old salvaged drivers, but it’s also the only driver I have so many of.  The 150BG is also a nice first driver.  It sounds good even when tuned poorly like the example I showed earlier in the thread.  Any of the LCP or Bio drivers are easy to tune as well.  Commercial offerings I’ve tried aren’t the best with these drivers, but you can still hear the potential.
> 
> The jury is still out…  I would also like to present as evidence that you hang out with us virtually….  The case is really not going well.



Haha! Touche...


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> The jury is still out…  I would also like to present as evidence that you hang out with us virtually…. The case is really not going well.


This!

I mean, you probably COULD be hanging out with all those cool rockers, and here you are with us "buds" nuts...    We like you even WITH those flaws (or is it in spite of???).


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Would ya look at that fellas? I'm not the only one after all! I here I was thinkin' I might be crazy...


Seal:

"But we're never gonna survive unless
We get a little crazy
No we're never gonna survive unless
We are a little
Cray cray crazy"


----------



## o0genesis0o

jeejack said:


> You can use it bro with metal shells( 64 ohm). Your 150 ohm buds are not rdy. Use the tuning materials you bought 😉


Will tune further. I can’t stand the midbass. I think it’s a few db above my tolerance level. Strange, given how it graphs.

Regarding the metal shell: i cannot cut a groove for voice coil and I cannot sand them down either, so I would just jam the drivers in? 



Braekfast said:


> Thanks for the write-up! I'm also looking into placing my first parts order soon for diy buds. I was so impressed by the berserker 2's I got from Rikudougoku that I spent some time digging out the old soldering iron from the attic.
> 
> I've been eyeing the same 150 ohm blue glue drivers. Current plan would be to get 2 cheaper 32ohm drivers like the19-21 Red Dot or N53 blue glue for practise, and since they don't require amplification I'd be able to give them to my friends afterwards. And then keep the 150ohm blue glue for myself.
> You mention they need some amplification, but how much would you say is necessary? They seem fairly sensitive, but I only have a small dongle dac (VE Odyssey HD) so maybe that's not enough and I'd better look into getting something stronger.


Hi, don’t let my exaggeration scare you about amp. They don’t sound outright bad with usual sources like my Hidizs, which would be identical to most dongles using dual ESS chips nowadays. What I mean is I can get a bit more clarity from a bit more power, and because I always listen for clarity and “resolution”, it is kind of a big deal to me.

Look at me, I’m becoming those reviewers singing about amps and “scaling” that I disliked immensely when I started   




Ronion said:


> One other thing: in my experience, Red Dots do not have the best quality control and you are better off buying in bulk.  Some of them are bass shy.  I have no idea why, but thats how they measure—at a rate of about 1-2 out of 10.  Yes, I have that many.



Confirm that my drivers do not match exactly. There is a 3db variation right around ear gain, which I believe might reduce imaging performance.



JAnonymous5150 said:


> A lot of people would agree with you which is why I noted that I may be in the minority. I would like to add one thing about the detail: To me the Chaconnes come across with a lot of detail/micro detail from treble extension, but the RW3000s have more detail across the entire range due to a more agile/articulate low end, IMO.


You remind me of the dilemma of Crinacle and  Seeaudio when upgrading the Yume (IEM) into Yume Midnight. They thought that better treble extension means more resolution, so they changed tubing and cross over and drivers. In the end, the reviews are still “mediocre technical performance” because the rest of the frequency is still not tact sharp


----------



## mt877

o0genesis0o said:


> Regarding the metal shell: i cannot cut a groove for voice coil and I cannot sand them down either, so I would just jam the drivers in?


Get a set of needle files and go crazy.


----------



## jeejack

o0genesis0o said:


> Regarding the metal shell: i cannot cut a groove for voice coil and I cannot sand them down either, so I would just jam the drivers in?


What shells do you have ?


----------



## o0genesis0o

jeejack said:


> What shells do you have ?


This one


----------



## mt877

Went old school today. Still sounds great!


----------



## jeejack

o0genesis0o said:


> This one


You don't have to change anything to add drivers. They fit well


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> Went old school today. Still sounds great!



I remember a time when you were a mobile audiophile if you had one of the better Zen series players instead of an iPod because of how much smoother and neutral/natural the DACs were said to be...talk about showing my age lol! This brings back some good memories for sure.


----------



## syazwaned

Imaging 3D test.






Hi, has anyone try this on their earbuds? Is it true to say in term of imaging, earbuds are capable on going deeper, however IEM are more capable in creating holographic soundstage.


----------



## christianfps

syazwaned said:


> Hi, has anyone try this on their earbuds? Is it true to say in term of imaging, earbuds are capable on going deeper, however IEM are more capable in creating holographic soundstage.


What I do is game with my IEM/Earbuds. It's like one of the best ways to determine how good the combined soundstage and imaging is. Especially for shooter games like Counter Strike, Overwatch, Valorant, Halo and such alike. Depth, directionality and verticality of sounds are quite important. How I judge my equipment is that what I'm hearing on my IEM, earbud, headphones should feel as natural as what my brain perceives the distance that it sees through my eyes. There are some equipment that I've used that has really small soundstage and inaccurate imaging that it's messing with my brain. I'm seeing an enemy from about 5 meters away but they sound like they're just 1 meter way. There are also a handful of times that my team would ask me if I was cheating just because of how accurately I can tell the opponent's location just because I was using a good pair of equipment. haha!


----------



## syazwaned

christianfps said:


> What I do is game with my IEM/Earbuds. It's like one of the best ways to determine how good the combined soundstage and imaging is. Especially for shooter games like Counter Strike, Overwatch, Valorant, Halo and such alike. Depth, directionality and verticality of sounds are quite important. How I judge my equipment is that what I'm hearing on my IEM, earbud, headphones should feel as natural as what my brain perceives the distance that it sees through my eyes. There are some equipment that I've used that has really small soundstage and inaccurate imaging that it's messing with my brain. I'm seeing an enemy from about 5 meters away but they sound like they're just 1 meter way. There are also a handful of times that my team would ask me if I was cheating just because of how accurately I can tell the opponent's location just because I was using a good pair of equipment. haha!




Thanks, I used to game a lot during my teenage years. Mass Effect, Max Payne, Dragon Age and God of Wars were among the favorite! Now I usually play simple simulation game like Frostpuno and Factorio. However to take your points, I might got excuses to boot up my old Left For Dead account 😂


----------



## yaps66

samandhi said:


> This!
> 
> I mean, you probably COULD be hanging out with all those cool rockers, and here you are with us "buds" nuts...    We like you even WITH those flaws (or is it in spite of???).


Maybe it is because of!


----------



## o0genesis0o (Sep 8, 2022)

So, I continued my DIY adventure by opening up my pair of ear buds with the 150 ohm bass speakers to add some foams and see how it goes.

Results?

Somehow, I broke one of the voice coil




Anyhow, I decided to desolder the broken drivers and replace them with the spare 64 ohm Ti drivers. Here is how they sound.

First, measurement in stock form vs modded vs the golden boi FF3:




Subjective impressions:

Noticeably better technical performance than the 150 ohm bass driver. If the other one is "alright", this one is definitely "good". The resolution reminds me of FF3.
The soundstage in stock form has good depth to invoke that sense of speaker-like imaging, but the width is not as large as expected. As a result, the stock form sounds like a top level IEM in terms of soundstage rather than a good pair of ear buds.
@Ronion is right. Drilling a bass hole actually drops the ear gain around 3k just a touch. Adding a piece of micropore under the bass hole creates a more well-defined ear gain. In the end, I decided to go without the micropore.

This whole adventure gives me a new level of respect for DIYers, manufacturers, and the Harman target. Tuning is tricky. When I feel like I get it just right, it started to sound wrong with different genre. There is a pervasive sense of boxiness to the sound that I cannot quite get rid of. It's also not like EQ where I can point "right there, cut that". With IEM, at least I have a (false) sense of confidence about front and back venting. Most of the time, this is how I feel when "tuning" earbuds:




Anyhow, I'm out of drivers  

Edit: forgot to add a conclusion: if you want good buds on a budget and you can solder, get the 64 ohm Ti drivers and a cable. The whole combo is affordable and sounds very good in stock form.

Edit 2: I went with the vent + tape in the end. Can't stand the lack of ear gain. It makes me want to crank the volume, which pushes the 250 - 500hz region up, making everything muddy and boxy.


----------



## o0genesis0o

syazwaned said:


> Imaging 3D test.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I use the test tracks by Dr Chesky to check this imaging capability. Most IEMs fail to render a round stage. They are quite convincing at pushing things far to left and right, but struggle to convey a sense of depth. Even the best ones like Andromeda are not super successful, though noticeably better than others.

Not with ear buds, though. From FF3 to the modded YD30, they convey a round-ish soundstage. If the buds have more forward upper midrange, the sense of depth seems to be reduced some how. 

Regarding the holographic thing, I think it is not just how round the stage is. I hear holographic as a combination of two things:

Sound appearing at different distances in the stage effortlessly and simultaneously. Of course, recording needs to have this feature first. This is what top IEMs do well. I suspect this have something to do with the resolution.
Reverb and decay of the sound is so convincing that it tricks you into thinking that the sound comes from the surrounding environment. Both buds and good IEMs can do this more often than not. I suspect this have something to do with the dip at 10k. Overly zealous IEMs with a lot of 10-12k rarely create this effect.


----------



## Chessnaudio

o0genesis0o said:


> I use the test tracks by Dr Chesky to check this imaging capability. Most IEMs fail to render a round stage. They are quite convincing at pushing things far to left and right, but struggle to convey a sense of depth. Even the best ones like Andromeda are not super successful, though noticeably better than others.
> 
> Not with ear buds, though. From FF3 to the modded YD30, they convey a round-ish soundstage. If the buds have more forward upper midrange, the sense of depth seems to be reduced some how.
> 
> ...


That is cool! Going to check that out when I have a chance


----------



## mt877 (Sep 8, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I remember a time when you were a mobile audiophile if you had one of the better Zen series players instead of an iPod because of how much smoother and neutral/natural the DACs were said to be...talk about showing my age lol! This brings back some good memories for sure.


Yeah, I bought that Zen Xtra 30GB when it came out (2003ish) for the MSRP of $299.99 (inflation adjusted 2022 $483.00). The only other model at the same store (some small computer shop, remember those?) was the 60GB for $399.99 (2022 $644.00). I would have bought the 60GB, but I bought 2 of the 30GB, one for me and one for my wife. Well my wife ultimately didn't like the interface and got an iPod for herself. Ripping CDs to mp3 was the rage back then, so all the music on the Creative is either Lame 128kb or 192kb mp3 files, I can't remember, but they sound pretty good. I still have both of the units and they both charge up and work, that's amazing. I haven't tried figuring out how to transfer files to them in this new computer era though, so might be stuck with music I put on them years ago.

Whatever Creative did with the audio chain is still amazing. Those Docomo PK2 sound pretty good with modern gear, but the Creative brought them up a few notches. Hard to explain, well maybe not, just call it Creative audio magic.

Well, that was a walk down memory lane. LOL.

Edit: You can still get generic Li-Ion batteries. Found some on Amazon. They're pretty cheap, so gonna get batteries to make sure these players keep working into the future.


----------



## syazwaned

o0genesis0o said:


> I use the test tracks by Dr Chesky to check this imaging capability. Most IEMs fail to render a round stage. They are quite convincing at pushing things far to left and right, but struggle to convey a sense of depth. Even the best ones like Andromeda are not super successful, though noticeably better than others.
> 
> Not with ear buds, though. From FF3 to the modded YD30, they convey a round-ish soundstage. If the buds have more forward upper midrange, the sense of depth seems to be reduced some how.
> 
> ...



Thank you friend. Greatly appreciate your response on this.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> So, I continued my DIY adventure by opening up my pair of ear buds with the 150 ohm bass speakers to add some foams and see how it goes.
> 
> Results?
> 
> ...


can I ask why you don’t align the graphs in the midrange?  That way you can get a more detailed comparison at how it’s going to sound.  It removes a lot of the guess work.  Personally, that’s my concern.  The acoustics are interesting and all, but not the story I’m really interested in because I’m going to listen to music through these things.  When you say I was right, it reads like an insult on this end because you are still taking me out of context.  No offense, but of course I was correct. Far more so than you are showing.  I’m not new to this.  I’ve done more experiments of this nature than you know.  Very detailed and OCD Fashion and I’ve shared with others who have done similar style things for sake of science.  Well beyond just hole drilling.  Anyway, that’s how I would align the graphs.  It’s ultimately more fruitful.  I guess you don’t have to be,I’ve me on that either.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> This!
> 
> I mean, you probably COULD be hanging out with all those cool rockers, and here you are with us "buds" nuts...    We like you even WITH those flaws (or is it in spite of???).



Well yeah, but when I spent all my time tryin' to hang with the rockstars I ended up strung out for over a decade...

Plus, me hanging with those guys all the time would be like me only hanging out with coworkers after getting off of work.  And as much as I hate to break it to you, but you guys exist in my cellphone for the most part so I can hang out with you guys whenever. For example, right now I am bored on a conference call. Maybe I should go all rockstar, smash the phone, and air drum a killer solo while I run out of the studio! Or not...


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Maybe I should go all rockstar, smash the phone, and air drum a killer solo while I run out of the studio! Or not...


ROFL.. Just what envisioned.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Well yeah, but when I spent all my time tryin' to hang with the rockstars I ended up strung out for over a decade...
> 
> Plus, me hanging with those guys all the time would be like me only hanging out with coworkers after getting off of work.  And as much as I hate to break it to you, but you guys exist in my cellphone for the most part so I can hang out with you guys whenever. For example, right now I am bored on a conference call. Maybe I should go all rockstar, smash the phone, and air drum a killer solo while I run out of the studio! Or not...


But, in all seriousness I know what you are talking about. I was in a band (what seems) a lifetime ago, and I really didn't want to hang out with most of them for the same reasons. Though the bass player and I were pretty close and hung out "after work" (we even closeted ourselves away from the rest of the band to write new material, which I didn't really consider work). Of course, it helped that his mom and my dad were dating.. LOL


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Well yeah, but when I spent all my time tryin' to hang with the rockstars I ended up strung out for over a decade...
> 
> Plus, me hanging with those guys all the time would be like me only hanging out with coworkers after getting off of work.  And as much as I hate to break it to you, but you guys exist in my cellphone for the most part so I can hang out with you guys whenever. For example, right now I am bored on a conference call. Maybe I should go all rockstar, smash the phone, and air drum a killer solo while I run out of the studio! Or not...


We enjoy the hell out of you hanging out with us.  You are certainly one of us.  Probably the cool one LOL.  It’s even been said that you are the second best-looking guy right after @FranQL.  That’s pretty high regard.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 8, 2022)

samandhi said:


> But, in all seriousness I know what you are talking about. I was in a band (what seems) a lifetime ago, and I really didn't want to hang out with most of them for the same reasons. Though the bass player and I were pretty close and hung out "after work" (we even closeted ourselves away from the rest of the band to write new material, which I didn't really consider work). Of course, it helped that his mom and my dad were dating.. LOL



Yeah, my bandmates and I got the "get clean or get gone" ultimatum from our last record label so we all got clean around the same time. Part of staying clean means staying away from a lot of the people I used to kick it with. The upside is I'm more productive in writing music than ever before l, my drumming has gone to a whole new level because I practice so much more (gotta get that junkie energy out lol), and ofc I get to listen to a lot of music. Oh yeah, and I also remember most of what I do nowadays lol!

To bring this back on topic, I honestly wouldn't have rediscovered or cared about earbuds if I hadn't cleaned up so that's definitely a win-win in my book!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> We enjoy the hell out of you hanging out with us.  You are certainly one of us.  Probably the cool one LOL.  It’s even been said that you are the second best-looking guy right after @FranQL.  That’s pretty high regard.



Second best looking?!?! Where's @FranQL ? I'll bet I'm on top of the list by the end of the week if I can find him.


LOL obviously joking! Violence is bad kids! Plus, there's nothing I can do that would disfigure FranQL enough to make him uglier than this hideous mug. I honestly question my girl's judgement sometimes lol! But thanks for the confidence booster, bro.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Sep 8, 2022)

Ronion said:


> can I ask why you don’t align the graphs in the midrange?  That way you can get a more detailed comparison at how it’s going to sound.  It removes a lot of the guess work.  Personally, that’s my concern.  The acoustics are interesting and all, but not the story I’m really interested in because I’m going to listen to music through these things.  When you say I was right, it reads like an insult on this end because you are still taking me out of context.  No offense, but of course I was correct. Far more so than you are showing.  I’m not new to this.  I’ve done more experiments of this nature than you know.  Very detailed and OCD Fashion and I’ve shared with others who have done similar style things for sake of science.  Well beyond just hole drilling.  Anyway, that’s how I would align the graphs.  It’s ultimately more fruitful.  I guess you don’t have to be,I’ve me on that either.



For the longest time, I have held the dogma that holes behind driver boost bass. You are the one who tells me “no, it drops ear gain”. This is the second time my measurement shows that it’s true: everything stays where they are, ear gain drops. Does that mean that bass would sound louder? Sure, but you managed to pinpoint that it’s the ear gain that changes, not the bass. Thus, my statement was meant like “oh wow, you are spot on”.

I don’t understand why whenever we touch the measurement or tuning related topic, it has to be like walking on thin ice, when I have made it clear many times that I have nothing but respect for what you do and know? The worst thing is we rarely actually disagree on any point in out discussions so far even though the conversation can come to … this point.

Regarding the alignment, yes, alignment at 500hz or 1k would be more fruitful. I was just intrigued by the shape of the frequencies above 3k because they look identical despite the difficulty in replicating measurements, so I align them there to see how they look together. Yes, I need better measurement rig.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Yeah, my bandmates and I got the "get clean or get gone" ultimatum from our last record label so we all got clean around the same time. Part of staying clean means staying away from a lot of the people I used to kick it with. The upside is I'm more productive in writing music than ever before l, my drumming has gone to a whole new level because I practice so much more (gotta get that junkie energy out lol), and ofc I get to listen to a lot of music. Oh yeah, and I also remember most of what I do nowadays lol!
> 
> To bring this back on topic, I honestly wouldn't have rediscovered or cared about earbuds if I hadn't cleaned up so that's definitely a win-win in my book!


All true... BUT... look what happened with Dave Mustaine? And let's not forget the creative brilliance that was George Carlin (and he attributed his creativity to... uhh nothing good haha). I guess there is an argument for both sides, because look what happened to Vince "kicked off the Def Leppard tour" Neil?!   

I can, in a round-about way attribute me being here now, BECAUSE of "those" days. Since I am no longer involved (in any way), I crave some of those memories (it really is an addicting feeling singing in front of a crowd), which is why I am obsessed with music (I listen at LEAST 8-10 hours a day in some way or another). And because my wife could no longer tolerate my loudspeaker rigs, I got into (pretty deeply) head gear... And here I am! 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> Second best looking?!?! Where's @FranQL ? I'll bet I'm on top of the list by the end of the week if I can find him.
> 
> 
> LOL obviously joking! Violence is bad kids! Plus, there's nothing I can do that would disfigure FranQL enough to make him uglier than this hideous mug. I honestly question my girl's judgement sometimes lol! But thanks for the confidence booster, bro.


@FranQL has been pretty busy with IRL stuff lately, but I'll be sure to let him know that he is on (top of) the "best looking earbud user list" among us... 

It must be the earbuds. Those FF3s ARE pretty slick looking...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Hey, guess who found an old cellphone with a working camera while looking for a drum key in his truck...this guy! Have some free low quality smartphone cam pics of my Ucotech ES-P1s to celebrate! Yay!🤘😜😎


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hey, guess who found an old cellphone with a working camera while looking for a drum key in his truck...this guy! Have some free low quality smartphone cam pics of my Ucotech ES-P1s to celebrate! Yay!🤘😜😎


I REALLY do love the looks of those buds....

Edit: Dang bro, how many pocket knives do you need to carry? LOL


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> All true... BUT... look what happened with Dave Mustaine? And let's not forget the creative brilliance that was George Carlin (and he attributed his creativity to... uhh nothing good haha). I guess there is an argument for both sides, because look what happened to Vince "kicked off the Def Leppard tour" Neil?!
> 
> I can, in a round-about way attribute me being here now, BECAUSE of "those" days. Since I am no longer involved (in any way), I crave some of those memories (it really is an addicting feeling singing in front of a crowd), which is why I am obsessed with music (I listen at LEAST 8-10 hours a day in some way or another). And because my wife could no longer tolerate my loudspeaker rigs, I got into (pretty deeply) head gear... And here I am!
> 
> ...



I'm not gonna lie, some of my most creative stuff came to me while under the influence and a lot of what I do now I wouldn't be doing if it wasn't for those times. However, with the way my using was going I would probably be a really creative dead drummer. I still have days where I'd love to be smacked out of my skull.

More recently I have found that the creative door that substances opened didn't shut when I quit using. Also, it should be noted that I am currently undergoing psilocybin/psilocin and MDMA/MDA based therapy for my PTSD and I still drink on occasion as well so I'm not a straight-edge no substances kinda guy though I fully respect those that are. I think its healthy to recognize how powerful psychoactive substances are and that their power isn't good or bad, it's how the substance is used that determines whether it's ultimate effects on your life are good or bad. As with most things it just comes down to balance and intent. There are just some substances that I cannot use in a healthy, balanced, and moderate fashion and I'm okay with that...most of the time anyways lol!

That's my last word on the addiction stuff though. It's not nearly as fun to talk about as earbuds and music.

Since you mentioned the FF3s, give Animals As Leaders album entitled Parrhesia a listen with the FF3s. It's too good to be missed!


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Since you mentioned the FF3s, give Animals As Leaders album entitled Parrhesia a listen with the FF3s. It's too good to be missed!


Added to the "to do" list. Thanks! 

BTW, for those that didn't know that might be interested, the new Ozzy album comes out tomorrow...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> I REALLY do love the looks of those buds....
> 
> Edit: Dang bro, how many pocket knives do you need to carry? LOL



Yeah, the ES-P1s are beautiful! Definitely my favorite looking buds in my stable and possibly overall.

As for the knives, I generally carry 2 flippers and a Leatherman. I just like knives and as a paranoid guy who spends quite a bit of time in a city that's making it harder and harder to legally carry my M1911 (or other firearm) even though I have a permit, I am trained and proficient in using knives as a weapon or a tool. Plus, they're dead useful to have handy!

Sorry, I'll turn the crazy/paranoia down a notch or two for future pics lol! 😂


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Added to the "to do" list. Thanks!
> 
> BTW, for those that didn't know that might be interested, the new Ozzy album comes out tomorrow...



I have it liked already on Qobuz so I won't forget to listen when it drops tomorrow!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> And because my wife could no longer tolerate my loudspeaker rigs, I got into (pretty deeply) head gear... And here I am!



I feel you on the speaker setup. My girl does a ton of video editing at home because she is a production manager for an advertising firm so I mostly don't get to use my speaker setups very often. Honestly though, I generally prefer listening to some kind of head gear most of the time anyways.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Yeah, the ES-P1s are beautiful! Definitely my favorite looking buds in my stable and possibly overall.
> 
> As for the knives, I generally carry 2 flippers and a Leatherman. I just like knives and as a paranoid guy who spends quite a bit of time in a city that's making it harder and harder to legally carry my M1911 (or other firearm) even though I have a permit, I am trained and proficient in using knives as a weapon or a tool. Plus, they're dead useful to have handy!
> 
> Sorry, I'll turn the crazy/paranoia down a notch or two for future pics lol! 😂


I don't know about everyone else using the FF3, but the cable has become a bit more pliable on mine. Not a ton, but I imagine with more time, it might either harden more, or get even more pliable. Time will tell I suppose?!



Spoiler: WAY off topic



OK! I will try and make this the last post that is WAY off topic (for tonight lol). But, I love knives as well. 

And BTW, they just passed the law in Indiana and Ohio that you no longer need a permit to carry which is a terrible idea if you ask me (of course, since I paid for lifetime carry permit)... LOL Kel-Tec PF9 here (I don't like to advertise).

There are a few missing (i.e. Microtech Ultratech OTF, Benchmade Mini Osbourne, maybe a couple CKRT and Spyderco because I didn't have them at the time of the picture):









JAnonymous5150 said:


> I have it liked already on Qobuz so I won't forget to listen when it drops tomorrow!


Ozzy is actually doing album signings for those that pre-ordered his album from Fingerprints Music, Saturday in Longbeach at 2pm. Anywhere near 4th street Longbeach gon' be busy day afta' tomorra'!


----------



## qua2k (Sep 8, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hey, guess who found an old cellphone with a working camera while looking for a drum key in his truck...this guy! Have some free low quality smartphone cam pics of my Ucotech ES-P1s to celebrate! Yay!🤘😜😎


Some nice knives you got there man esp the antlers  I too have a manual flip Gerber that I carry when I have to go into the office/city. Stay safe out there!


----------



## lafeuill

WoodyLuvr said:


> *@JAnonymous5150* I keep forgetting to ask you about the packaging of your *Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600 LE* earbuds... did they come in a finished box like mine or in a coffin case like *@samandhi*? Send a pic as he and I are curious about this. Thanks!
> 
> *vs.*


Got the plain coffin case... 

No biggie, these buds are a pleasure to use at work with my AUNE HIFIDIY.NET Mini USB DAC + Headphone Amp MK2 SE.

Bought it in 2010 for 114€, years before Aune became an established brand.





I'm still amazed by its performance and power. The 600 ohms buds don't make it sweat one bit. I'm a loud listener, and 11 o'clock is my max level.

Great synergy between them.


----------



## samandhi

lafeuill said:


> Got the plain coffin case...
> 
> No biggie, these buds are a pleasure to use at work with my AUNE HIFIDIY.NET Mini USB DAC + Headphone Amp MK2 SE.
> 
> ...


Fantastic! I assume that because you got the "coffin" box, you got the nice little carry case?


----------



## lafeuill

The round black one, absolutely.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> I don't know about everyone else using the FF3, but the cable has become a bit more pliable on mine. Not a ton, but I imagine with more time, it might either harden more, or get even more pliable. Time will tell I suppose?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hey, I used to have a PF9, but I sold it, a Glock, and a Baretta 92FS when I ordered the Kimber custom shop 1911 I carry these days because I have a big gun collection so nothing comes in these days without stuff being sold to pay for it. I do miss the PF9 though.

And nice knives! I have a lot of those as well. Benchmade, Spyderco, some custom jobs, vintage and military pieces, etc. I have always liked and carried knives ever since I was kid and I keep knives on my person, in my backpack, in my stick bag, in my truck... pretty much everywhere lol!

I keep transducers around just as much though! And this will be my last weapons post too 😜😎


----------



## JAnonymous5150

lafeuill said:


> Got the plain coffin case...
> 
> No biggie, these buds are a pleasure to use at work with my AUNE HIFIDIY.NET Mini USB DAC + Headphone Amp MK2 SE.
> 
> ...



Nice! I have a friend of a friend acquaintance who uses one of these Aune HIFIDIY DACs too and he has mentioned how versatile it is more than once.

I'm glad you're liking the Yinman 600s though. They are a pretty damn good pair of buds. I got the "coffin box" with my 600s too, but I keep them in their case or my repurposed watch turned earbud chest or their carrying case anyways.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> For the longest time, I have held the dogma that holes behind driver boost bass. You are the one who tells me “no, it drops ear gain”. This is the second time my measurement shows that it’s true: everything stays where they are, ear gain drops. Does that mean that bass would sound louder? Sure, but you managed to pinpoint that it’s the ear gain that changes, not the bass. Thus, my statement was meant like “oh wow, you are spot on”.
> 
> I don’t understand why whenever we touch the measurement or tuning related topic, it has to be like walking on thin ice, when I have made it clear many times that I have nothing but respect for what you do and know? The worst thing is we rarely actually disagree on any point in out discussions so far even though the conversation can come to … this point.
> 
> Regarding the alignment, yes, alignment at 500hz or 1k would be more fruitful. I was just intrigued by the shape of the frequencies above 3k because they look identical despite the difficulty in replicating measurements, so I align them there to see how they look together. Yes, I need better measurement rig.


Please don’t feel like you are walking in thin Ice.  I just want your graphs to be more useful And not just for me.  When you’re listening and you’re like “why am I hearing less deep bass when my measurements show otherwise?”  It’s just the graphing perspective is wrong.  It reminds me of a parallax error where you can’t figure out why you are above or below the target when your crosshairs are spot on.  1kHz has only been commonly for its graphing location, but it would still be a step in the right direction.  I literally bought and read every book I could find on the subject long before I ever posted in this thread.  Long before I ever considered owning an earbud.  My rough draft for my headphone curve was derived a decade ago.  When I’m telling you things, it’s not because I’m trying to correct, scold or chastise you or anything like that…. I’m literally trying to help you.  I actually wouldn’t waste my time to do otherwise.  I can see where you are though, and I love to see it.  Quite literally.  I may not come off right—particularly when I’m getting late for work and I’m in a hurry, but trust me I’m always just in it to help.  I’ve I’m taking my time to say something, it’s to help.  I mean how many people do you know who would spend weeks making molds of their own ear with materials to match the mechanical properties of an typical human ear just so they can understand the acoustics of loudspeakers, headphones, and their interactions with your head and ears?  I’m literally the only one I know (Perhaps fortunately).  The amount of reading and experiments it took to get there would make you think I was nuts.  Don’t even get me going on the details of the room calibration.  

in any case, keep doing what you are doing.  The graphs are quite useful and good.  It’s just so easy to improve them that I hate to see you waste the opportunity.  Wait until you get an artificial ear.  Things will get really screwy then.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> The amount of reading and experiments it took to get there would make you think I was nuts.


We don't think your nuts.....


----------



## samandhi

P.S. We KNOW you are...


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> P.S. We KNOW you are...


I only wish I would have been brave enough to do my ear canals!  I almost went to an audiologist to have it done.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> I only wish I would have been brave enough to do my ear canals!  I almost went to an audiologist to have it done.


You should! You have taken it this far, might as well take it all the way. Plus, you will probably be wondering about it until you do.. LOL

I would bet that would set you back a pretty penny though?!


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> Please don’t feel like you are walking in thin Ice.  I just want your graphs to be more useful And not just for me.  When you’re listening and you’re like “why am I hearing less deep bass when my measurements show otherwise?”  It’s just the graphing perspective is wrong.  It reminds me of a parallax error where you can’t figure out why you are above or below the target when your crosshairs are spot on.  1kHz has only been commonly for its graphing location, but it would still be a step in the right direction.  I literally bought and read every book I could find on the subject long before I ever posted in this thread.  Long before I ever considered owning an earbud.  My rough draft for my headphone curve was derived a decade ago.  When I’m telling you things, it’s not because I’m trying to correct, scold or chastise you or anything like that…. I’m literally trying to help you.  I actually wouldn’t waste my time to do otherwise.  I can see where you are though, and I love to see it.  Quite literally.  I may not come off right—particularly when I’m getting late for work and I’m in a hurry, but trust me I’m always just in it to help.  I’ve I’m taking my time to say something, it’s to help.  I mean how many people do you know who would spend weeks making molds of their own ear with materials to match the mechanical properties of an typical human ear just so they can understand the acoustics of loudspeakers, headphones, and their interactions with your head and ears?  I’m literally the only one I know (Perhaps fortunately).  The amount of reading and experiments it took to get there would make you think I was nuts.  Don’t even get me going on the details of the room calibration.
> 
> in any case, keep doing what you are doing.  The graphs are quite useful and good.  It’s just so easy to improve them that I hate to see you waste the opportunity.  Wait until you get an artificial ear.  Things will get really screwy then.


No worries. Sorry for offending you, intentionally or otherwise. It’s never my intention, of course. Eager to learn more from all of you experienced folks! I got an acoustic engineering book to try to learn but can’t quite wrap my head around. I certainly dislike the trial and error way that I do with these buds and the unreliable measurements. That’s why I say “new found respect for DIYer and manufacturers”. Let’s put this aside and move on. We are friendly audio geeks  




Back to earbuds: the 64 ohm Ti driver is so good, technical wise. I’m in awe. Highly recommended, especially with vent + filter.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> We don't think your nuts.....



Speak for yourself lol! But @Ronion is just my kind of crazy!


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> No worries. Sorry for offending you, intentionally or otherwise. It’s never my intention, of course. Eager to learn more from all of you experienced folks! I got an acoustic engineering book to try to learn but can’t quite wrap my head around. I certainly dislike the trial and error way that I do with these buds and the unreliable measurements. That’s why I say “new found respect for DIYer and manufacturers”. Let’s put this aside and move on. We are friendly audio geeks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Also, there might be some really good resources (and discussions) over on the "Sound Science" part of the forum. 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> Speak for yourself lol! But @Ronion is just my kind of crazy!


See the post after...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> See the post after...



Well yeah, but my joke doesn't make sense now...🥺


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Well yeah, but my joke doesn't make sense now...🥺


Makes perfect sense, and I actually lol'ed! But WITH your initial response, I think we can all agree.... @Ronion is indeed nuckin' futz! Or am I dangerously close to inviting "it takes one to know one"?


----------



## mt877 (Sep 8, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Makes perfect sense, and I actually lol'ed! But WITH your initial response, I think we can all agree.... @Ronion is indeed nuckin' futz! Or am I dangerously close to inviting "it takes one to know one"?


No, but you put the FU in...


Spoiler



FUNNY!


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> Also, there might be some really good resources (and discussions) over on the "Sound Science" part of the forum.



Will have a look. I must admit I am not overly fond to go there because the overly zealous attitude of some members in “audio science” forums are … annoying. Say, I have nothing but respect for knowledgeable people (at least from my layman perspective) like Amir, Solderdude, or Oratory1990. In fact, I read everything I can on a website about modding headphones, only to realise later that Solderdude is the author

But some folks who reply to in forums? Jezz. @JAnonymous5150 might have seen the mess of “all amp sound the same” on Reddit in the last couple days. Some folks seem to think that anyone who pay more than peanuts for audio are dumb.

Btw, I’m shocked that the ancient looking textbook that I download describe planar magnetic (orthodynamic) and electro static headphones in details   . In my layman mind, those are spanking new techs.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 8, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Will have a look. I must admit I am not overly fond to go there because the overly zealous attitude of some members in “audio science” forums are … annoying. Say, I have nothing but respect for knowledgeable people (at least from my layman perspective) like Amir, Solderdude, or Oratory1990. In fact, I read everything I can on a website about modding headphones, only to realise later that Solderdude is the author
> 
> But some folks who reply to in forums? Jezz. @JAnonymous5150 might have seen the mess of “all amp sound the same” on Reddit in the last couple days. Some folks seem to think that anyone who pay more than peanuts for audio are dumb.
> 
> Btw, I’m shocked that the ancient looking textbook that I download describe planar magnetic (orthodynamic) and electro static headphones in details   . In my layman mind, those are spanking new techs.



The "problem" with the r/headphones subreddit is that it has largely been taken over by folks with consumer audio backgrounds and tastes and has thus become a self-affirming echo chamber of beliefs that tend to "justify" the consumer market friendly ideas they're comfortable with. Being an "audiophile" who is willing to spend top dollar for the diminishing returns that are necessary to gain that last highest level of performance has always been bad-mouthed as elitist which isn't helped at all by the many elitist snobs who are often the most outspoken "audiophiles."

On that sub if it can't be read on a graph it doesn't exist. If you personally can't hear the difference and can get enough upvoters who can't hear a difference either then there is no difference. Let's face it, when you're uncomfortable with the idea that you may have to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to get the best audio performance to begin with and then you find people saying that the expensive stuff is "snake oil" it's very attractive to believe that perspective because it allows you to stay in your consumer comfort zone, call yourself an "audiophile," and appear to come from a highly informed place of advanced knowledge and intelligence without having to spend money, experiment, take risks, or be intellectually rigorous.

The fact of the matter is that the VAST majority of people who claim anything about high end gear, good or bad, on that sub have little to no experience with said gear. Do I think there is a lot of elitist snake oil salesmanship that goes on in niche audiophile products? Absolutely! Do I also think that there is a ton of consumer biased spin out there meant to appeal to people by appearing to give them access to the best of the best with no added cost? Absolutely! The truth is somewhere in yhe middle where higher end gear often is better, but some of the most expensive stuff is meant to cater purely to those spending for status and gatekeeping purposes or out of their own ignorance.

In the end, I have been staying away from reddit for a few reasons and one is because the subs I used to like have generally become negative, ignorant places where people seek out confrontation based on ignorance and a lack of acceptance. All amps don't sound the same, all DACs don't sound the same, and if I want to drop a few grand on something you think doesn't sound any better than your $100 version then who cares?!?! You still win in your mind thinking I'm an elitist audiophile who got scammed and you're the smart guy who found the budget gem and I still think I have the best there is. Everyone goes home happy. Yay.

This probably made no sense, but it would have taken 20 more pages for me to explain better. I'll end the rant now.

BTW, I also can't use my reddit account right now because my record label wants to review it to make sure I have been abiding by my contract so I can't sign on until they're done. Damn lawyers...


Edit: And yeah, despite the recent hype around planars and electrostats, both have been around for decades. Though their implementation, design, and performance have been improved and are getting better.


----------



## syazwaned

o0genesis0o said:


> Will have a look. I must admit I am not overly fond to go there because the overly zealous attitude of some members in “audio science” forums are … annoying. Say, I have nothing but respect for knowledgeable people (at least from my layman perspective) like Amir, Solderdude, or Oratory1990. In fact, I read everything I can on a website about modding headphones, only to realise later that Solderdude is the author
> 
> But some folks who reply to in forums? Jezz. @JAnonymous5150 might have seen the mess of “all amp sound the same” on Reddit in the last couple days. Some folks seem to think that anyone who pay more than peanuts for audio are dumb.
> 
> Btw, I’m shocked that the ancient looking textbook that I download describe planar magnetic (orthodynamic) and electro static headphones in details   . In my layman mind, those are spanking new techs.


 Audiophile hobby and drama/controversy seems destined to be together. thankfully I have never seen in this forum, but in reddit, facebook groups and discord, I have seen a non stop arguing and bickering for something dumb. 

To the point that I afraid of asking newbies audiophile questions in fear of backlash. Luckily this forum we have number of audiophile expert that willing to share their thoughts without sounding judgemental. I do appreciate that


----------



## Edric Li

Didn't realize that Japan's best-selling cable maker Nobunaga Labs had released an earbud in July. 















The design seems pretty original...?


----------



## mt877

Edric Li said:


> Didn't realize that Japan's best-selling cable maker Nobunaga Labs had released an earbud in July.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If they are Nobunaga, then they are most likely to be ruthless killer Samurai warrior buds. J/k.


----------



## baskingshark

Edric Li said:


> Didn't realize that Japan's best-selling cable maker Nobunaga Labs had released an earbud in July.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Excellent find!

I have a few Nobunaga cables. Well they are quite nice haptically but a few of them have deal-breaking microphonics, so I hope this doesn't suffer from the same issue (though this earbud seems detachable so no biggie swapping another cable if so).


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> If they are Nobunaga, then they are most likely to be ruthless killer Samurai warrior buds. J/k.



I prefer cowabunga!

J/K and these buds look pretty cool! Has anyone come across any reviews or anything?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

baskingshark said:


> Excellent find!
> 
> I have a few Nobunaga cables. Well they are quite nice haptically but a few of them have deal-breaking microphonics, so I hope this doesn't suffer from the same issue (though this earbud seems detachable so no biggie swapping another cable if so).



I can't find them on the Nobunaga Labs site. Can anyone direct your friendly village idiot (me) to them?


----------



## Edric Li

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I can't find them on the Nobunaga Labs site. Can anyone direct your friendly village idiot (me) to them?


Twitter https://twitter.com/search?q=nobunaga 鶯


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Edric Li said:


> Twitter https://twitter.com/search?q=nobunaga 鶯



Thank you, kind sir!


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> No worries. Sorry for offending you, intentionally or otherwise. It’s never my intention, of course. Eager to learn more from all of you experienced folks! I got an acoustic engineering book to try to learn but can’t quite wrap my head around. I certainly dislike the trial and error way that I do with these buds and the unreliable measurements. That’s why I say “new found respect for DIYer and manufacturers”. Let’s put this aside and move on. We are friendly audio geeks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I didn’t actually take any offense—sorry that got put out there the wrong way.  I mean my first, knee-jerk react was like “^*$#, why wouldn’t this guy believe me? I’ve done this countless times and I’m freely offering help for no benefit to myself…” but I didn’t mean for it to sound like I was offended.  I didn’t think you wanted to be offensive.  I just shouldn’t have replied when I really didn’t have time to express myself clearly and I hadn’t drank my coffee.  This is why I get annoyed with text communication.  If I take the time, nuances are possible.  When I am in a hurry, I have to be more clever with my words.  It’s easier if I just write in a very conversational manner, but I was tortured in English class by a professor who would slash your paper if you used one unnecessary syllable.  I’ve been fighting it since the beginning.  

I actually think it’s useful to do trial and error.  Even if you have to buy a few shells for white mice. You’ll learn a lot that way—especially if you graph the changes and do things systematically.  If you keep posting your trials, you’ll likely see other people incorporating your work 😂.  It wouldn’t be the first time.  That’s why the DIY earbuds thread died: people’s designs ended up in other people’s wares(long before @RikudouGoku got into DIY—so don’t think I’m pointing fingers at him or @tgx78).  Your graphs are seriously very good.  Better than the vast majority of the ones out there.  Using the FiiO FF3 as a reference is certainly very useful.  Of the commercial buds I’ve graphed, it’s closest to neutral.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Also, there might be some really good resources (and discussions) over on the "Sound Science" part of the forum.
> 
> See the post after...


I’ve looked around over there, but things get intensely pedantic as you can imagine.  Ruins it for me as most topics get derailed into bickering over semantics.  Well, at least that’s how it was the last time I checked, but it’s been a while.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> I’ve looked around over there, but things get intensely pedantic as you can imagine.  Ruins it for me as most topics get derailed into bickering over semantics.  Well, at least that’s how it was the last time I checked, but it’s been a while.



It was still very much like that a few weeks ago. Plenty to learn from some smart folks, but the BS you have to wade through in what seems like every thread kills it for me too. I don't have too much BS in my life to voluntarily read through more lol!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 9, 2022)

Edric Li said:


> Didn't realize that Japan's best-selling cable maker Nobunaga Labs had released an earbud in July.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*COMING SOON - Nobunaga Labs 鶯 <<Uguisu>> Nightingale; ??Ω (mmcx)*

The Uguisu has not been released yet. They are still just exhibiting and previewing it... probably still at a pre-production R&D stage perhaps. Here is a post from Nobunaga today about it.




https://twitter.com/NOBUNAGA__Labs


----------



## FranQL (Sep 9, 2022)

I'm really having very little time lately, although reading and reading this thread is something that I always do and that I like.
@JAnonymous5150 I am pretty sure that the beauty can be applied to me the same way as to the back of a kitchen fridge LOL

Although I hardly have time for anything, it is true that a few weeks ago I made a bud that I am especially proud of, it is a 600 Ohm Bery that enters directly into my headphone stable as number one, of course keep in mind that my tastes are strange , like me!!!!!!



Coincidentally or not, it seems, I find my personal Olympus with these three, and they're all high-impedance. As @WoodyLuvr  says these are my god tier:



I just wish no one feels sad that the issue is not related to FF3..... LOL!!!!!!!!


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> Even if you have to buy a few shells for white mice. You’ll learn a lot that way—especially if you graph the changes and do things systematically



Are you reading my mind or what   I’m going to do the same thing. There are a couple of useful tutorials on audioreviews.org that teach the effects of different vents and dampening, which I can easily verify with a roll of micropore tape, so learning was quick and painless. I haven’t found such tutorials on buds, so I wanted to experiment and make one.



Edric Li said:


> Didn't realize that Japan's best-selling cable maker Nobunaga Labs had released an earbud in July.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Beautiful cable! I never imagine a cable can lie down like that


----------



## o0genesis0o

FranQL said:


> I'm really having very little time lately, although reading and reading this thread is something that I always do and that I like.
> @JAnonymous5150 I am pretty sure that the beauty can be applied to me the same way as to the back of a kitchen fridge LOL
> 
> Although I hardly have time for anything, it is true that a few weeks ago I made a bud that I am especially proud of, it is a 600 Ohm Bery that enters directly into my headphone stable as number one, of course keep in mind that my tastes are strange , like me!!!!!!
> ...


Your top buds are so pretty. 

*noting down about putting gems in the dummy socket on the shells


----------



## fooltoque

WoodyLuvr said:


> *COMING SOON - Nobunaga Labs 鶯 <<Uguisu>> Nightingale; ??Ω (mmcx)*
> 
> The Uguisu has not been released yet. They are still just exhibiting and previewing it... probably still at a pre-production R&D stage perhaps. Here is a post from Nobunaga today about it.
> 
> ...


Potafes is 2.5 hours away by bullet train, with an $80 ticket one way..... It would be pretty fun to go, but I don't think I will make it.


----------



## fooltoque

FF3's were released today in Japan. 
I didn't mean to buy them, just went to see what they were like...
I really didn't mean to buy them.


...yeah I bought them.


----------



## syazwaned

fooltoque said:


> FF3's were released today in Japan.
> I didn't mean to buy them, just went to see what they were like...
> I really didn't mean to buy them.
> 
> ...


 

better bass than berserker?


----------



## fooltoque

syazwaned said:


> better bass than berserker?


They both check my box for bass. 

I'm slow to form opinions, so hard to say more without listening a while bunch more.


----------



## lycos

Im very new with earbud. I had Yuin PK2 from 12-13 years ago and thats the last good earbud I have.

What are currently considered as totl earbuds at the moment? For tonality, I prefer neutral warm. Would love to get good details, full body mids and decent bass.

I will mainly use it on bed before sleeping. Earbud will be ideal because I can hear if my toddler daughter calls me from next room.


----------



## syazwaned

lycos said:


> Im very new with earbud. I had Yuin PK2 from 12-13 years ago and thats the last good earbud I have.
> 
> What are currently considered as totl earbuds at the moment? For tonality, I prefer neutral warm. Would love to get good details, full body mids and decent bass.
> 
> I will mainly use it on bed before sleeping. Earbud will be ideal because I can hear if my toddler daughter calls me from next room.


yinman 2.0 600 ohms bro


----------



## lycos

syazwaned said:


> yinman 2.0 600 ohms


Thanks. What do you like about it?


----------



## syazwaned (Sep 9, 2022)

fooltoque said:


> They both check my box for bass.
> 
> I'm slow to form opinions, so hard to say more without listening a while bunch more.


thanks friend.. would like to hear more the these two bass comparison.





lycos said:


> Thanks. What do you like about it?



It has everything that you listed. Yinman fit and tonality is comfortable and fatigue free, you could listen to it for hours. Treble is smooth, and not in anywhere dark or less extended.

Very deep slow bass for slow tempo song, extremely emotional to listen to. 
However, On high tempo song like Pop or EDM, the bass would be too much for me, and this is the only gripe I have with it.

Also it is 600 ohms, so you need at least a powerful dongle with it.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

lycos said:


> Im very new with earbud. I had Yuin PK2 from 12-13 years ago and thats the last good earbud I have.
> 
> What are currently considered as totl earbuds at the moment? For tonality, I prefer neutral warm. Would love to get good details, full body mids and decent bass.
> 
> I will mainly use it on bed before sleeping. Earbud will be ideal because I can hear if my toddler daughter calls me from next room.



If you'd like something that's easier to drive than they Yinman 600s @syazwaned recommended, I would look at the Venture Electronics Asura 3.0, the Yincrow RW2000, or even the Shozy BK. All three are top performing buds the Asura 3.0 and RW2000 are warmer than the Shozy BK. The Asura 3.0 is the most mid focused and warmest (I hear the VE Zen 2.0 is even warmer). The RW2000 is pretty well rounded through the spectrum while still being warm and largely mid forward/focused. The Shozy BKs are the least warm and have the best extension on either end of the spectrum, IMO, while maintaining the sweet mids that you mention you're looking for.

Personally, I find the RW2000s and BKs to be totally comfortable and to be good for listening to many genres. The Asura 3.0s gave me some fit issues, but when I got the fit right they sound very nice with acoustic, jazz, and vocal based genres in specific. So if you're looking for one do-it-all earbud I think RW2000s or BKs would be the best, but if your listening conforms mostly to what the Asura 3.0s are best at, they can bea great listen as well.


----------



## Ronion

fooltoque said:


> They both check my box for bass.
> 
> I'm slow to form opinions, so hard to say more without listening a while bunch more.


Judging by the graphs I’ve made, I’d say to give them 2 weeks with one set of foams and an hour a day of listening time.  Then change foams if you don’t like them and repeat.


----------



## lycos (Sep 9, 2022)

Thank you @JAnonymous5150 for great summary of those earbuds!

Thanks @syazwaned That sounds like something I would enjoy


----------



## Eduardiofilo

https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/33...d67a9d2uqz2K&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=gloPc2espMsite

https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/33...d67a9d2uqz2K&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=gloPc2espMsite

https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/10...d67a9d2uqz2K&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=gloPc2espMsite

https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/10...d67a9d2uqz2K&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=gloPc2espMsite

I chose these drivers for me next diy. Any recommendations


----------



## Sam L

syazwaned said:


> Audiophile hobby and drama/controversy seems destined to be together. thankfully I have never seen in this forum, but in reddit, facebook groups and discord, I have seen a non stop arguing and bickering for something dumb.
> 
> To the point that I afraid of asking newbies audiophile questions in fear of backlash. Luckily this forum we have number of audiophile expert that willing to share their thoughts without sounding judgemental. I do appreciate that


I've always love the decency in this thread that many of us can "agree to disagree" on many things audiophile but the common understanding is "earbuds rock!"


----------



## Sam L

Ronion said:


> I didn’t actually take any offense—sorry that got put out there the wrong way.  I mean my first, knee-jerk react was like “^*$#, why wouldn’t this guy believe me? I’ve done this countless times and I’m freely offering help for no benefit to myself…” but I didn’t mean for it to sound like I was offended.  I didn’t think you wanted to be offensive.  I just shouldn’t have replied when I really didn’t have time to express myself clearly and I hadn’t drank my coffee.  This is why I get annoyed with text communication.  If I take the time, nuances are possible.  When I am in a hurry, I have to be more clever with my words.  It’s easier if I just write in a very conversational manner, but I was tortured in English class by a professor who would slash your paper if you used one unnecessary syllable.  I’ve been fighting it since the beginning.
> 
> I actually think it’s useful to do trial and error.  Even if you have to buy a few shells for white mice. You’ll learn a lot that way—especially if you graph the changes and do things systematically.  If you keep posting your trials, you’ll likely see other people incorporating your work 😂.  It wouldn’t be the first time.  That’s why the DIY earbuds thread died: people’s designs ended up in other people’s wares(long before @RikudouGoku got into DIY—so don’t think I’m pointing fingers at him or @tgx78).  Your graphs are seriously very good.  Better than the vast majority of the ones out there.  Using the FiiO FF3 as a reference is certainly very useful.  Of the commercial buds I’ve graphed, it’s closest to neutral.


I'm chiming in with zero understanding of context, just because I see 3 keywords that perk my interest -- RikudouGoku, tgx78, and graphs.

I struggle to keep up-to-date on this thread. I blame @RikudouGoku and @tgx78. Between their offerings all my earbud needs have been met for this lifetime. I can now die a happy man. 

re: graphs, we all know graphs and earbuds will forever have an adversarial existence, and yet I encourage anyone/everyone to go on that journey. Lots of learning and frustration.


----------



## mt877

Something to chew on for you guys waiting on your M4 deliveries.

Look at the Super One FR and the ST20Pro FR, they look exactly the same. Super One is supposed to be the Smabat bass king, while the ST20Pro is supposed to be brighter, but the graphs don't indicate that. I gave my impressions of both the ST10S, which is U shaped and the ST20Pro, which definitely has less bass impact and is brighter than the ST10S, but sounds more balanced (to my ears anyway).


----------



## jeejack

Eduardiofilo said:


> https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/33...d67a9d2uqz2K&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=gloPc2espMsite
> 
> https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/33...d67a9d2uqz2K&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=gloPc2espMsite
> 
> ...


Just the first and last link 👍


----------



## jeejack

mt877 said:


> Something to chew on for you guys waiting on your M4 deliveries.
> 
> Look at the Super One FR and the ST20Pro FR, they look exactly the same. Super One is supposed to be the Smabat bass king, while the ST20Pro is supposed to be brighter, but the graphs don't indicate that. I gave my impressions of both the ST10S, which is U shaped and the ST20Pro, which definitely has less bass impact and is brighter than the ST10S, but sounds more balanced (to my ears anyway).


Pls compare 150 TI with Super One


----------



## Oscarilbo

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I know you didn't ask me, but I have to say that I much prefer the FF3s to the Chaconnes. I only kept the Chaconnes for about a month and then moved them. Though I will also say that the FF3s and the Chaconnes are two very different earbuds.
> 
> I may be in the minority in saying this, but I think there are earbuds out there that are similar to the Chaconnes in sound sig, but are better executed to varying degrees. The Yincrow RW3000s for example, provide a similar sound signature that actually fills out better and provides more detail, IMO. The FF3s, as I have said before, have a huge presentation that imparts such power to the music and I haven't heard another bud that equals it


Thanks for your reply, just saw it. Well.. I love Moondrop house tuning, its very respectful of the source imho. I like the natural and organic feel of it, which is perfect for the type of music I listen to. So I would be looking exactly for that in earbuds. On the other hand I've never listen to a Fiio product, so don't know its tuning. How would you guys rate FF3's tuning compared to Chaconne?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Oscarilbo said:


> Thanks for your reply, just saw it. Well.. I love Moondrop house tuning, its very respectful of the source imho. I like the natural and organic feel of it, which is perfect for the type of music I listen to. So I would be looking exactly for that in earbuds. On the other hand I've never listen to a Fiio product, so don't know its tuning. How would you guys rate FF3's tuning compared to Chaconne?



As I mentioned in the other post, the tuning of the FF3s is significantly different from the Chaconnes. The FF3s are a bassier, bolder, and more powerful tuning/presentation and are little less detailed overall. If you're looking for Moondrop's inoffensive, neutral/bright, somewhat bass light tuning the Chaconnes are the best example of it.

What I was trying to point out before was that the FF3s and the Chaconnes are VERY different, almost representing opposite approaches to earbud sound. With this in mind, choosing between the two should be relatively easy if your tuning preferences align with one side or the other.


----------



## syazwaned

Oscarilbo said:


> Thanks for your reply, just saw it. Well.. I love Moondrop house tuning, its very respectful of the source imho. I like the natural and organic feel of it, which is perfect for the type of music I listen to. So I would be looking exactly for that in earbuds. On the other hand I've never listen to a Fiio product, so don't know its tuning. How would you guys rate FF3's tuning compared to Chaconne?


I used to have Chaconne, it is heavy as hell, and not as comfortable as other earbuds. On the other hands, on I never read any uncomfortable issue with FF3. Rikubuds from @RikudouGoku has produce a line of earbuds, one of his earbuds Grand Rider is designed to emulate Chaconne tuning, at cheaper price, more comfortable housing, and said to have better sub-bass. Maybe you can look at one out.


----------



## Stevehamny

syazwaned said:


> I used to have Chaconne, it is heavy as hell, and not as comfortable as other earbuds. On the other hands, on I never read any uncomfortable issue with FF3. Rikubuds from @RikudouGoku has produce a line of earbuds, one of his earbuds Grand Rider is designed to emulate Chaconne tuning, at cheaper price, more comfortable housing, and said to have better sub-bass. Maybe you can look at one out.


I have the bright-neutral Grand _Archer _from @RikudouGoku, and this is the bud he calls the "Chaconne killer." (I don't have the Chaconne to compare it to, but then why spend three times as much just to confirm it's not any better?) On his official database, he describes the Grand _Rider _as warm-neutral. 

I can't imagine not loving either of them, but if you're specifically looking for Chaconne-like tuning, that's the Grand Archer.


----------



## Ronion (Sep 9, 2022)

Sam L said:


> I'm chiming in with zero understanding of context, just because I see 3 keywords that perk my interest -- RikudouGoku, tgx78, and graphs.
> 
> I struggle to keep up-to-date on this thread. I blame @RikudouGoku and @tgx78. Between their offerings all my earbud needs have been met for this lifetime. I can now die a happy man.
> 
> re: graphs, we all know graphs and earbuds will forever have an adversarial existence, and yet I encourage anyone/everyone to go on that journey. Lots of learning and frustration.


Believe it or not, graphing has ended my frustration with headphones in general.  It enables pinpointing problems painting fairly perfect pictures thereby allowing me to appreciate actual secondary and tertiary characteristics of drivers.  The education and experience that came before that point was monumental however.  Most people are not determined or enthusiastic enough to do it.  Even companies profiting prodigiously peddling pipe dreams—perhaps they have their reasons.  Education remains unpopular in spite of the evidence of its benefits.


----------



## syazwaned

Stevehamny said:


> I have the bright-neutral Grand _Archer _from @RikudouGoku, and this is the bud he calls the "Chaconne killer." (I don't have the Chaconne to compare it to, but then why spend three times as much just to confirm it's not any better?) On his official database, he describes the Grand _Rider _as warm-neutral.
> 
> I can't imagine not loving either of them, but if you're specifically looking for Chaconne-like tuning, that's the Grand Archer.


sorry my bad haha. 

p/s my grand archer is on its way from Sweden.. currently in the shipping across the sea.


----------



## drewbadour (Sep 9, 2022)

Well my impatience got the best of me. While waiting for tgx's Alpha, Longyao Yinman, and Topping G5 to arrive (all stuck in customs or on a cargo plane somewhere), I bought a Grand Rider from Riku just to have another package from overseas to obsessively watch tracking for. 

I love that earbuds are much better value than IEMs and headphones but I'm now realizing that doesn't mean I'll be able to save more money...

God help me...


----------



## Stevehamny

syazwaned said:


> sorry my bad haha.
> 
> p/s my grand archer is on its way from Sweden.. currently in the shipping across the sea.


All good, and I'm looking forward to your impressions on the Grand Archer!


----------



## qua2k (Sep 9, 2022)

Sam L said:


> I'm chiming in with zero understanding of context, just because I see 3 keywords that perk my interest -- RikudouGoku, tgx78, and graphs.
> 
> I struggle to keep up-to-date on this thread. I blame @RikudouGoku and @tgx78. Between their offerings all my earbud needs have been met for this lifetime. I can now die a happy man.
> 
> re: graphs, we all know graphs and earbuds will forever have an adversarial existence, and yet I encourage anyone/everyone to go on that journey. Lots of learning and frustration.


+Blur and I am right there with you. I feel like my next 2 and possibly final 2 will be the Serratus and a Lancer 1 to complement my Berserker 2 (loving this bud). Nearing the teens with my collection which means a few are not getting listened to anymore.. struggle is real.

HOWEVER, always hunting for a 4.4 Blur Wraith if anyone would want to sell theirs  cmooon.


----------



## ian91

qua2k said:


> +Blur and I am right there with you. I feel like my next 2 and possibly final 2 will be the Serratus and a Lancer 1 to complement my Berserker 2 (loving this bud). Nearing the teens with my collection which means a few are not getting listened to anymore.. struggle is real.
> 
> HOWEVER, always hunting for a 4.4 Blur Wraith if anyone would want to sell theirs  cmooon.



Did you only ever have White Wraith? Part of me wants to say you had the original Wraith at some point? 

Serratus is *thumbs up*. The Wraith has a narrower stage but resolution and timbre is as equally competitive -  I've listened over weeks now and I can't decide which I prefer (maybe I don't need to prefer one or the other!). Serratus has greater bass emphasis though and more subbass extension but that doesn't matter a great deal for alot of my tracks.


----------



## qua2k

ian91 said:


> Did you only ever have White Wraith? Part of me wants to say you had the original Wraith at some point?
> 
> Serratus is *thumbs up*. The Wraith has a narrower stage but resolution and timbre is as equally competitive -  I've listened over weeks now and I can't decide which I prefer (maybe I don't need to prefer one or the other!). Serratus has greater bass emphasis though and more subbass extension but that doesn't matter a great deal for alot of my tracks.


No on the original Wraith, just the White Wraith, which I had Wong make this year. Heard nothing but good on the Serratus.


----------



## Ronion

Eduardiofilo said:


> https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/33...d67a9d2uqz2K&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=gloPc2espMsite
> 
> https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/33...d67a9d2uqz2K&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=gloPc2espMsite
> 
> ...


I’m with @jeejack.  The first driver should be great by all reports.  The last driver is great.  The second driver is in the 32Pro.  You can definitely balance out its tuning and give it a wider soundstage with more advanced modifications, but in my opinion it’s not worth the effort.  The driver is ultimately mid grade.  It is insanely efficient which comes in handy.  I tuned it to my curve and use if for playing VSTs straight from my iPad.  Not a lot of buds can really do that and it’s not the best one that can.  It was the first one I found that could though.

Anyone know if that first driver is the same 600Ohm that comes in the Yincrow?


----------



## o0genesis0o

Eduardiofilo said:


> https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/33...d67a9d2uqz2K&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=gloPc2espMsite
> 
> https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/33...d67a9d2uqz2K&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=gloPc2espMsite
> 
> ...



You can also have a look at the 64 ohm composite Ti drivers as well. I’m still shocked at how resolving these drivers are. Bass is not much in stock form, but you can tune it a bit. Mine gets louder bass now, enough to enjoy electronic music, but the bass is still not “textured” as FF3. My other complain is that the soundstage does not feel extra wide like other buds, though very deep. In other words, these buds sound like a TOTL IEM than earbuds, if that makes any sense to you.



Ronion said:


> Believe it or not, graphing has ended my frustration with headphones in general.  It enables pinpointing problems painting fairly perfect pictures thereby allowing me to appreciate actual secondary and tertiary characteristics of drivers.  The education and experience that came before that point was monumental however.  Most people are not determined or enthusiastic enough to do it.  Even companies profiting prodigiously peddling pipe dreams—perhaps they have their reasons.  Education remains unpopular in spite of the evidence of its benefits.


I also like the (false?) confidence when I have a coupler with me. The only challenge is I have no way to know the ground truth. Still, I have listened to IEMs and looked at their IEC711 graphs, and vice versa, so many times that I have formed certain kind of association between graph and sound (That’s why I always complain about the weirdness of the graphs of those Smabat drivers). I don’t agree with some reviewers and manufacturers (like Moondrop) who think the closer you get to Harman / VSDF / etc., the better “sound quality”, but it’s good to have a target. Otherwise, your tuning can go every where, and then you spend time blacklisting reviewers for saying that your tuning sucks .

Change, listen, measure, confirm / reject hypothesis, form new hypothesis, repeat. I like to think that's how we should go. The faster and more accurate we go through the loop, the better we can learn. That's why I'm enthusiastic about something like Smabat M4. It's certainly faster to learn with M4 than soldering iron and drills   




Ronion said:


> I’m with @jeejack.  The first driver should be great by all reports.  The last driver is great.  The second driver is in the 32Pro.  You can definitely balance out its tuning and give it a wider soundstage with more advanced modifications, but in my opinion it’s not worth the effort.  The driver is ultimately mid grade.  It is insanely efficient which comes in handy.  I tuned it to my curve and use if for playing VSTs straight from my iPad.  Not a lot of buds can really do that and it’s not the best one that can.  It was the first one I found that could though.
> 
> Anyone know if that first driver is the same 600Ohm that comes in the Yincrow?


I’m curious about that first driver. Are those cones paper?? Seems like a cheap and cheery platform for testing all kinds of mods.


----------



## christianfps

Another post fanboying on the FF3.

I'm at work and looking for something to listen to in Spotify and decided to throw some R&B to set a chill mood for the day. Song of choice was: Officially Missing You - Midi Mafia Mix by Tamia and others artists.



It's like one of those songs you've listened to a thousand times and you thought you know everything that's in it. A song I've been hearing ever since I was a teen but this time the FF3 just made me smile the whole time I was listening to it. I never heard the taps on the beatbox to be that realistic and the separation of instruments was just amazing. Yes, from an R&B song! And what was I hearing towards at the end? A coin purse? I was in awe and disbelief. Like, wait there's something like that in the song this whole time? 🤣


----------



## samandhi

jeejack said:


> Pls compare 150 TI with Super One


Whether the graph shows it or not, the 150Ti has the most quantity of bass (to my ears). But that is a subjective observance on my part. The SO (or if you follow Smabat naming it would actually be Super Noe lol) is perceived as having less quantity of bass (but only by a small margin IMO), but an overall more balanced sound. All of these observations from me are in the M2s Pro shell.

To my ears, and only from memory (I no longer have the 150Ti driver for the M2s Pro) the ST10S B&G are quite different sounding IIRC (though I believe it was @mt877 that has A/Bed them and thinks they sound the same). 

This could all possibly change with the incoming M4 (which also will include the 150Ti and the SO 100 bio drivers.


----------



## samandhi (Sep 9, 2022)

This is a bit off topic (for now) because I am not using buds for this audition (but I will be listening to it all again with the FF3 RIGHT after I am done with the Focal phones).




Spoiler: Off Topic



This just dropped today. It is a great album (insomuch as the content), but it sounds a bit over produced to my ears. Having said that, I am enjoying it either way on hi-res FLAC from: Mediamonkey 5 (which looks a lot like Roon and can now play DSD) > Asus ROG Strix Scar III > DX300 > Amp12 card > Hartaudio Modular Cable (4.4mm Balanced) > Focal Elegia > Dekoni Custom Lambskin Stelia Pads

Ironically, track number 4 sounds like old Black Sabbath. Maybe not so ironic since this track features Tony Iommi. And given Ozzy's age (73) I can even forgive the (obvious) use of Auto-Tune here... lol



Spoiler: Mediamonkey 5


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> This is a bit off topic (for now) because I am not using buds for this audition (but I will be listening to it all again with the FF3 RIGHT after I am done with the Focal phones).
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have listened to it a couple times on different headphones and buds mostly for the guest guitarists which are outstanding on this album. I totally agree on the overproduced comment, but I would imagine that some of that is necessitated by Ozzy himself getting up there in age and thus needing more vocal retouching than usual. Unfortunately, I think they got a little heavy handed with the compression probably as a result of trying to make that less noticeable and give everything a more uniform presentation. I could be wrong as to the reasons behind it, but that's my guess based on my studio experience.

Overall though, I found it pretty enjoyable. And it does in fact sound great on the FF3s! For anyone who hasn't listened yet, give it a shot even if you're not normally an Ozzy listener. As I mentioned before the guest guitar work alone is worth the listen. Eric Clapton in particular shows up in fine form with some rock riffage the likes of which I hadn't heard from him in a long time (since he has become almost solely a blues player when going electric).

The drumming by Tommy Clufetos, though laden with compression, has some highlights as well. The guy is a well-known and very talented session drummer who can really pound the skins when he wants. If given the chance, I'd love to hear him drum live on some of these songs so I can hear his work with the natural dynamics and power, but there's enough there even with the compression to have some excitinf moments for sure.


----------



## waynes world

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Well yeah, but when I spent all my time tryin' to hang with the rockstars I ended up strung out for over a decade...
> 
> Plus, me hanging with those guys all the time would be like me only hanging out with coworkers after getting off of work.  And as much as I hate to break it to you, but you guys exist in my cellphone for the most part so I can hang out with you guys whenever. For example, right now I am bored on a conference call. Maybe I should go all rockstar, smash the phone, and air drum a killer solo while I run out of the studio! Or not...





JAnonymous5150 said:


> Yeah, my bandmates and I got the "get clean or get gone" ultimatum from our last record label so we all got clean around the same time. Part of staying clean means staying away from a lot of the people I used to kick it with. The upside is I'm more productive in writing music than ever before l, my drumming has gone to a whole new level because I practice so much more (gotta get that junkie energy out lol), and ofc I get to listen to a lot of music. Oh yeah, and I also remember most of what I do nowadays lol!
> 
> To bring this back on topic, I honestly wouldn't have rediscovered or cared about earbuds if I hadn't cleaned up so that's definitely a win-win in my book





JAnonymous5150 said:


> I'm not gonna lie, some of my most creative stuff came to me while under the influence and a lot of what I do now I wouldn't be doing if it wasn't for those times. However, with the way my using was going I would probably be a really creative dead drummer. I still have days where I'd love to be smacked out of my skull.
> 
> More recently I have found that the creative door that substances opened didn't shut when I quit using. Also, it should be noted that I am currently undergoing psilocybin/psilocin and MDMA/MDA based therapy for my PTSD and I still drink on occasion as well so I'm not a straight-edge no substances kinda guy though I fully respect those that are. I think its healthy to recognize how powerful psychoactive substances are and that their power isn't good or bad, it's how the substance is used that determines whether it's ultimate effects on your life are good or bad. As with most things it just comes down to balance and intent. There are just some substances that I cannot use in a healthy, balanced, and moderate fashion and I'm okay with that...most of the time anyways lol!
> 
> ...



Who the heck are you??? One hell of a funny and interesting guy, that's who!

The only psilocybin based therapy I did was when I was a teenager after finding a particularly productive farmer's field. Let's just say that the therapy was not quite a successful as I wanted it to be lol

Anyway, you are very entertaining and informative, so thanks for contributing!

On an earbud related note, here's a very positive (surprise surprise) review of the FF3 by @twister6:
https://twister6.com/2022/09/09/fiio-ff3/2/

My set has finally been shipped after being delayed due to covid lockdown. They can't get here quick enough - I know I'm going to love them.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I have listened to it a couple times on different headphones and buds mostly for the guest guitarists which are outstanding on this album. I totally agree on the overproduced comment, but I would imagine that some of that is necessitated by Ozzy himself getting up there in age and thus needing more vocal retouching than usual. Unfortunately, I think they got a little heavy handed with the compression probably as a result of trying to make that less noticeable and give everything a more uniform presentation. I could be wrong as to the reasons behind it, but that's my guess based on my studio experience.
> 
> Overall though, I found it pretty enjoyable. And it does in fact sound great on the FF3s! For anyone who hasn't listened yet, give it a shot even if you're not normally an Ozzy listener. As I mentioned before the guest guitar work alone is worth the listen. Eric Clapton in particular shows up in fine form with some rock riffage the likes of which I hadn't heard from him in a long time (since he has become almost solely a blues player when going electric).
> 
> The drumming by Tommy Clufetos, though laden with compression, has some highlights as well. The guy is a well-known and very talented session drummer who can really pound the skins when he wants. If given the chance, I'd love to hear him drum live on some of these songs so I can hear his work with the natural dynamics and power, but there's enough there even with the compression to have some excitinf moments for sure.



So cool to hear professional musicians talking about music! I like hearing violinists gushing over legendary performances, but this is the first time I see musicians talking about mixing and modern recordings.


----------



## baskingshark

o0genesis0o said:


> So cool to hear professional musicians talking about music! I like hearing violinists gushing over legendary performances, but this is the first time I see musicians talking about mixing and modern recordings.



+1

I realize nowadays most modern day singers and musicians "cheat" when they do performances/recordings, compared to the old days. Kinda disappointing.

Many singers use auto-tune unreservedly to hit the correct notes, and even back-end, their voices are remastered to sound perfect or even to hit higher ranges than their legit voices. Musician recordings are also mastered back end (as long as you don't play too out of time/key) and the computers can make notes be hit in perfect timing.

Ah, then you see some of these pop stars sing in live performances without their crutch and most of them sing flat or out of time LOL. Some even have to sing many keys lower than the album recordings, simply cause they can't actually reach those notes without technology intervening.


----------



## o0genesis0o

baskingshark said:


> +1
> 
> I realize nowadays most modern day singers and musicians "cheat" when they do performances/recordings, compared to the old days. Kinda disappointing.
> 
> ...



Speaking of which, have you seen the latest live recording of the guy who sings Somebody I used to know on YouTube? He sounds way better comparing to the original recording years ago (listening with my DIY earbuds with 64 ohm Ti driver, of course... alright, I'll see myself out ). I also think it's ironic that Ed Sheeran sounds better live than in his latest album. The one who mixes Shiver for that album needs to get their ears checked.


----------



## ttorbic

Saw this at a cafe restroom - thought folks here would appreciate! I love "Piano Party" lolll


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 10, 2022)

waynes world said:


> Who the heck are you??? One hell of a funny and interesting guy, that's who!
> 
> The only psilocybin based therapy I did was when I was a teenager after finding a particularly productive farmer's field. Let's just say that the therapy was not quite a successful as I wanted it to be lol
> 
> ...



Thank you very kindly! I'm glad you got a kick out of it and I'm always happy to contribute. And trust me knowing who I am isn't nearly as interesting as you might think. I mean, I like to think I'm cool and all that, but I'm not some rockstar laying low. I promise! My band is what you might call moderately successful in the grand scheme of things, but I would be shocked if anyone here knew me by name or face. A few folks who like and follow indie rock have probably heard of the band I'm in, but we're nowhere near successful enough for that to be guaranteed.

You want a funny story, I'll give you one. Being a drummer in a recently moderately successful band hasn't made me a recognizable figure. I occasionally do drum clinics for a couple companies I have endorsement deals with and some hardcore drummers know who I am, but until the last couple years more of them knew me because of a band I filled in on tour with or a couple of drum solo videos that got me some recognition a few years ago.

So with that in mind, I was walking around downtown in this city we played a couple months ago looking for some late night grub. I spot a local hamburger drive in kinda place and I get in line. I'm standing there looking up at the menu when I catch a snippet of conversation going on behind and to the side of me.

Guy 1: Dude, no way. It's not him. Now shut the F up before you creep this dude out.

Girl: I don't know, I think it's him. I'm gonna google him.

*I start doing a super casual look around to see if I can figure out who they're talking about*

Guy 2: It's def (yes he said def lol) him. I don't need to see pics. I saw their Fing show!

*Right as I realize it's me they're talking about Guy 2 talks to me*

I tried to be all rockstar cool because the dude knew my name and as a fellow drummer he even knew what kit I use and was pretty stoked to see me. Inside I was all happy and stuff because this was legitimately the first time that I have ever been singled out on the street. I was definitely glad it was pretty dark even by the window because I'm not positive I wasn't blushing or something.

I ended up eating some take out with some drunk locals one of whom had actually been to my band's show the night before. I signed some autographs and gave them some contact info for how to score free tickets for the mid week show we had coming up and some shirts and stuff for making my night by recognizing me.

I have been recognized at events where people knew I was attending or with my band, but never on the street by myself before. Does that give you a better idea of the scale of non-rockstardom we're dealing with here lol?!?!


----------



## Ronion (Sep 10, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> I also like the (false?) confidence when I have a coupler with me. The only challenge is I have no way to know the ground truth. Still, I have listened to IEMs and looked at their IEC711 graphs, and vice versa, so many times that I have formed certain kind of association between graph and sound (That’s why I always complain about the weirdness of the graphs of those Smabat drivers). I don’t agree with some reviewers and manufacturers (like Moondrop) who think the closer you get to Harman / VSDF / etc., the better “sound quality”, but it’s good to have a target. Otherwise, your tuning can go every where, and then you spend time blacklisting reviewers for saying that your tuning sucks .
> 
> Change, listen, measure, confirm / reject hypothesis, form new hypothesis, repeat. I like to think that's how we should go. The faster and more accurate we go through the loop, the better we can learn. That's why I'm enthusiastic about something like Smabat M4. It's certainly faster to learn with M4 than soldering iron and drills
> 
> ...


the SMABAT graphs are crazy weird.  I’m not even sure how they are screwing it up so bad….  This is why they have so much trouble tuning and why FiiO doesn’t.

The Harman and Moondrop targets don’t really make a lot of sense.  You’ve seen the way the graphs change from a fairly flat in room response, which by Harman’s own data should be too bright (It’s not, but that’s a whole other can of worms).  If you reverse extrapolate their headphone graph, there’s no way you come up their room response graph.  The whole myth is so…. Interesting.  It takes some incredible mental gymnastics to justify their final curve.  It’s so bad, even Lars Ulrich knows it (Joke).  The feature of their graph that is definitely missing is called the Head Shadow.  Here’s some more scholarly 🧐 supporting documents.  Look at the upper left and the upper right photos in this first document.  They are not from a stereo source and thus do not contain data from the head shadow.










those last 2 pictures illustrate how the head shadow works.  The resultant graphs from a stereo source will look like this taken from my ear and living room:




Both ears will hear low end from both speakers and how they interact with the room. The head is roughly 1,500Hz wide. So the high frequency sound won’t be equal on both sides: the left ear will hear more treble from the left speaker than the right speaker and the right ear will hear more treble from the right speaker than the left speaker. You notice my in room graph is fairly flat, but my in ear graph has the same bass as the room, then the head shadow kicks in, then the pinna gain elevates it (the ear canal resonance is missing from the graph due to mic position), then the notch that occurs d/t the 30 degree speaker placement/standard stereo triangle.

Harman’s in room graph looks like this:



Yet their headphone curve looks like this:




It just doesn’t make a lot of sense.

The only reason I wouldn’t agree with you about learning faster from SMABAT’s bud is that their tuning is so unusual and their shell so unconventional that you’d be better off with the MX500 for both speed and versatility.

The biggest issue you’ll encounter is calibrating your rig…. Without going through the madness I did, I’m just not sure how else it could be possible.  The best way may be to see how the FiiO graphs and attempt to approximate it—boosting the upper end until is seems neutral to you…. It’s not the most scientific, but you can see that even my crazy OCD version has a lot of issues.  I can improve it, but I’m not sure it’s necessary.  There’s just no standard mixing and mastering room and thus no playback system can achieve a technical perfection.  IOW, that FiiO method should be essentially as good as you would ever need.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

baskingshark said:


> +1
> 
> I realize nowadays most modern day singers and musicians "cheat" when they do performances/recordings, compared to the old days. Kinda disappointing.
> 
> ...



I actually really admire our lead singer because of how little he lets producers touch up his vocals. Our band has always been about live performances being the best way to connect with fans/listeners and if your live performance sucks because you can't actually sing or play without the crutches of auto-tune and track alignment you're just doing a disservice to your fans and to music in general. It's hard to have pride in something you can't or didn't actually do.

When you're recording there are some things you have to do to produce a viable record involving compression, dynamic control, and other mastering and editing techniques that are to be expected. However, it is definitely possible to keep that stuff basic and your performance in the studio and live as congruent as possible. That's what many of the best bands strive for and you're actually starting to see more and more of that coming back in certain rock based genres in particular.

For indie rock stuff, if you ever go see The Black Keys or Kings of Leon or Interpol and other really top tier bands live it's immediately clear that these guys are legit musicians and they are every bit as good as their records make them sound. It's real insult amongst professional musicians and bands if you or your band are known for being studio puppets.

Anyways, it's always refreshing when I see listeners who notice stuff like that because it reassures musicians/artists/bands who put in the extra blood, sweat, and tears so to speak to be outstanding in and out of the studio rather than relying on studio tricks that their effort is appreciated and will pay off.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

ttorbic said:


> Saw this at a cafe restroom - thought folks here would appreciate! I love "Piano Party" lolll



That's classic! I love the short shorts jumpsuit. So 70s chic! 😂


----------



## Ronion

ttorbic said:


> Saw this at a cafe restroom - thought folks here would appreciate! I love "Piano Party" lolll


My piano party never looks like that.  Very disappointed ☹️


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> the SMABAT graphs are crazy weird. I’m not even sure how they are screwing it up so bad…. This is why they have so much trouble tuning and why FiiO doesn’t.



That's a lot to take it, but I like what I am seeing in your post. I'll answer this one first, and then I will reply on the other points when I can understand   The graphs of Smabat are actually easy to replicate, IMHO. I just need to press the earbuds hard against the coupler and I will have that massive bass shell immediately. Some of the graphs that I discard look just like Smabat's graph. On the other hand, if I just slightly rest the earbuds against the coupler, I will have a graph looking similar to Fiio FF3 on the website (15db ear-gain).

I said M4 is "easy for learning" because I can rapidly change the driver and apply different damper on the vents. The interesting thing is M4 seems to implement the same kind of twisty bass pipes like Fiio, which might, or might not, lead to deeper bass. Of course, all of these are hypothetical talking. I don't have any Smabat buds.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> the SMABAT graphs are crazy weird.  I’m not even sure how they are screwing it up so bad….  This is why they have so much trouble tuning and why FiiO doesn’t.
> 
> The Harman and Moondrop target’s don’t really make a lot of sense.  You’ve seen the way the graphs change from a fairly flat in room response, which by Harman’s own data should be too bright.  If you reverse extrapolate their headphone graph, there’s no way you come up their room response graph.  The whole myth is so…. Interesting.  It takes some incredible mental gymnastics to justify their final curve.  It’s so bad, even Lars Ulrich knows it (Joke).  The feature of their graph that is definitely missing is called the Head Shadow.  Here’s some more scholarly 🧐 supporting documents.  Look at the upper left and the upper right photos in this first document.  They are not from a stereo source and thus do not contain data from the head shadow.
> 
> ...



Now that was truly scholarly and quite enlightening! Thanks for sharing, bro!


----------



## Ronion (Sep 10, 2022)

@o0genesis0o You’ll see that same sort of thing when you get an ear as well as far as distance goes.  Different foam materials and placement end up being a massive difference in what you end up hearing.  I’m definitely still figuring out the finer, and finer points.  There’s likely no end to that. 

You won’t be able to convince me that the SMABAT is better for you ha ha.  Just cost alone, let alone versatility is massively in favor of the MX500.  Just stay systematic and document.


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Now that was truly scholarly and quite enlightening! Thanks for sharing, bro!


Thank you!  This is why Dan Clark is bumping 100Hz on the Stealth and why the HD650 is the improvement over the 600 by Sennheiser’s account.  The balance is closer to a normal sound than the Harman target.  When you start looking at the direction of most modern IEM tunings, you can see the Harman Room Curve thrown in there as well.  I’m not sure if any of these people are actually aware of it, but it’s been right under our noses for a very long time.  The CAL! Which was so beloved almost lines up well with my data.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> You won’t be able to convince me that the SMABAT is better for you ha ha.



the “better for me” that I need is a better soldering iron . I don’t know what’s wrong but it took forever to melt solder on the drivers.



Ronion said:


> Thank you!  This is why Dan Clark is bumping 100Hz on the Stealth and why the HD650 is the improvement over the 600 by Sennheiser’s account.  The balance is closer to a normal sound than the Harman target.  When you start looking at the direction of most modern IEM tunings, you can see the Harman Room Curve thrown in there as well.  I’m not sure if any of these people are actually aware of it, but it’s been right under our noses for a very long time.  The CAL! Which was so beloved almost lines up well with my data.


Oh, Dan Clark! I love his seminar on headphone measurements (Can Jam last year?). Won’t be able to afford his headphone (nor I want to get one) anytime soon, but I like how clear and no-nonsense the guy is.

Isn’t his Stealth tuned super close to Harman, though?

Anyhow, back to the topic, beside the holy cow earbuds and FF3, are there any good buds that are not based on MX500 or PK shell? I’m looking forward to make something fancy looking. Maybe I’ll stick some gems on the buds like @FranQL


----------



## FranQL

Ronion said:


> The CAL! Which was so beloved almost lines up well with my data.



In buds we have CAAir and nobody pays attention to it, an old bud, from an old brand, and also rare.... I have read very ambiguous and timid comments about it... as if with reservations...

It is a bud that sounds excellent in every way and a gift at the price I bought it, surely the best prefabricated I have. But... that's the market...


----------



## o0genesis0o

FranQL said:


> In buds we have CAAir and nobody pays attention to it, an old bud, from an old brand, and also rare.... I have read very ambiguous and timid comments about it... as if with reservations...
> 
> It is a bud that sounds excellent in every way and a gift at the price I bought it, surely the best prefabricated I have. But... that's the market...


*Searching*

Oh my, they are ancient   Assuming that you are talking about the flat head ear buds version, of course.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

FranQL said:


> In buds we have CAAir and nobody pays attention to it, an old bud, from an old brand, and also rare.... I have read very ambiguous and timid comments about it... as if with reservations...
> 
> It is a bud that sounds excellent in every way and a gift at the price I bought it, surely the best prefabricated I have. But... that's the market...



If you live in certain european countries you can still buy the Airs directly from Creative for €39.99. I checked to see if I could buy them, but they only ship to a handful of european countries and won't ship to the US unfortunately. I also found a pair on ebay in the US for like $330!

If you don't mind me asking, what is it you like so much about the Airs? I'm genuinely curious since I have never heard anyone mention them.


----------



## FranQL (Sep 10, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> If you live in certain european countries you can still buy the Airs directly from Creative for €39.99. I checked to see if I could buy them, but they only ship to a handful of european countries and won't ship to the US unfortunately. I also found a pair on ebay in the US for like $330!
> 
> If you don't mind me asking, what is it you like so much about the Airs? I'm genuinely curious since I have never heard anyone mention them.



For not to speak of memory, I have taken them out to listen to them for a long time and I tell you.

My descriptions of the sound are bad and deficient, I have no skills to describe intangible or subjective, but I can tell you what I like about them.

Edit: at €300 they are not worth it at all.


----------



## FranQL

CREATIVE AURVANA AIR

Very good tonality, more juice and meat on vocals, as it is a little thicker than the reference you get from other tunings, it is not important for general listening, wide presentation, focus on low mids and someone might think that they tend to a way of V, could be, but the mids aren't delayed or shadowed, but... the out-of-the-ears feel here is outstanding, resulting in a more open-than-average sound. Very low pinna gain, lower than what I consider ideal.

The highs are not the protagonists, but it has a small emphasis that makes them seem more detailed, far from peaks or hisses, perceptible in high plucks of acoustic guitars, bells, etc. In something like for example Moonstruck - Chris Jones, it's too much for my taste (and I lower the volume), in fact they are more delayed or softened in the buds that I do for myself.

it lacks that realistic resonance to piano hits or reverb on string instruments, but it has large deliberate vents that enhance other qualities.

What I do like about these is how good their subbass is to be a bud, the perception of it and how it moves the air.

They are not perfection, no, but they have nothing, absolutely nothing to envy a Shozy BK for example, that is, they are not a god level IMO, but they are very good.

I have never had the need to open these, but I will not be surprised to see a 16mm fostex driver, made for this Aurvana air, who knows, of course IMO they are highly recommended on current offers at those prices (39.90 € in Spain ). Comfortable, you forget you're wearing them and good for long listening sessions. Good value, although I hardly use them, but they remain in my collection (as do others, Viridis for example).

I know, it's not my specialty to describe what I hear. And I emphasize the things that I don't like, which is what really contributes, what is good, is good...


----------



## o0genesis0o

FranQL said:


> CREATIVE AURVANA AIR
> 
> Very good tonality, more juice and meat on vocals, as it is a little thicker than the reference you get from other tunings, it is not important for general listening, wide presentation, focus on low mids and someone might think that they tend to a way of V, could be, but the mids aren't delayed or shadowed, but... the out-of-the-ears feel here is outstanding, resulting in a more open-than-average sound. Very low pinna gain, lower than what I consider ideal.
> 
> ...



Mate, you are good at describing sound. Very understandable and clear.


----------



## fooltoque

FranQL said:


> For not to speak of memory, I have taken them out to listen to them for a long time and I tell you.
> 
> My descriptions of the sound are bad and deficient, I have no skills to describe intangible or subjective, but I can tell you what I like about them.
> 
> Edit: at €300 they are not worth it at all.


Those look pretty funky. I like it. The more the earbud makes you look either super cool or like a total nerdgeek the better. Either way is fine.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 10, 2022)

FranQL said:


> CREATIVE AURVANA AIR
> 
> Very good tonality, more juice and meat on vocals, as it is a little thicker than the reference you get from other tunings, it is not important for general listening, wide presentation, focus on low mids and someone might think that they tend to a way of V, could be, but the mids aren't delayed or shadowed, but... the out-of-the-ears feel here is outstanding, resulting in a more open-than-average sound. Very low pinna gain, lower than what I consider ideal.
> 
> ...



Wow, very nice breakdown! I think I'm gonna have to work out a way to get ahold of a pair of these CAAirs for sure. Thanks for the thorough and well written impressions post.


----------



## FranQL

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Wow, very nice breakdown! I think I'm gonna have to work out a way to get ahold of a pair of these CAAirs for sure. Thanks for the thorough and well written impressions post.



honestly you have a large enough collection to need them, I don't think they bring you anything new in the grand scheme of things


----------



## Bitsir

What are the best Earbuds in these price categories:

$0-100
$100-200
$200-300

 I've heard good things about the Fiio FF3 and some DIY ones.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Unfortunately, I think they got a little heavy handed with the compression probably as a result of trying to make that less noticeable and give everything a more uniform presentation. I could be wrong as to the reasons behind it, but that's my guess based on my studio experience.


This is what I was thinking also. It reminds me a bit of the fiasco that was "Metallica - Death Magnetic" especially where the drums are concerned., Speaking of, I actually have a copy of a remaster of this album (of sorts). A guy took the album from "Guitar hero" and remastered it so as not to clip. There are limitations, but wow the sound is so much better (to my ears) overall. 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> The drumming by Tommy Clufetos, though laden with compression, has some highlights as well. The guy is a well-known and very talented session drummer who can really pound the skins when he wants. If given the chance, I'd love to hear him drum live on some of these songs so I can hear his work with the natural dynamics and power, but there's enough there even with the compression to have some excitinf moments for sure.


I don't think they used Tommy on this one (though I thought he was great on "13"). I think most of the drumming duties were done by Chad Smith and (some of what would be his last recordings) Taylor Hawkings on a few tracks also. This may or may not be true, but it DOES seem that I can hear Chad's "style" in there, as well as Taylor's. 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> I actually really admire our lead singer because of how little he lets producers touch up his vocals. Our band has always been about live performances being the best way to connect with fans/listeners and if your live performance sucks because you can't actually sing or play without the crutches of auto-tune and track alignment you're just doing a disservice to your fans and to music in general. It's hard to have pride in something you can't or didn't actually do.
> 
> When you're recording there are some things you have to do to produce a viable record involving compression, dynamic control, and other mastering and editing techniques that are to be expected. However, it is definitely possible to keep that stuff basic and your performance in the studio and live as congruent as possible. That's what many of the best bands strive for and you're actually starting to see more and more of that coming back in certain rock based genres in particular.
> 
> ...


Nowadays I crave for "your" type of band, because they have become the outliers and harder to find this practice. This is one reason I really love/admire groups like Spock's Beard/Pattern Seeking Animals, Sub Lunar, etc (along with the ones you mentioned of course)... 

I DO hope you are right, and that type of philosophy is on the rise. There may be hope yet for me not to be stuck listening to the older stuff, with a smattering of new things. 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> If you live in certain european countries you can still buy the Airs directly from Creative for €39.99. I checked to see if I could buy them, but they only ship to a handful of european countries and won't ship to the US unfortunately. I also found a pair on ebay in the US for like $330!
> 
> If you don't mind me asking, what is it you like so much about the Airs? I'm genuinely curious since I have never heard anyone mention them.


I tried looking for them a while back also. I also found the exact same "stopping" factor by living in the US. I won't pay the exorbitant price that one can find them for on Flea-Bay either. 

I like the looks of them a lot and wouldn't mind having a set (for novelty sake if nothing else), so if you can work out a way to get a set to you (at the $40 price tag), maybe get 2 pairs, and we could possibly work out getting a set to myself also?!


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Oh, Dan Clark! I love his seminar on headphone measurements (Can Jam last year?). Won’t be able to afford his headphone (nor I want to get one) anytime soon, but I like how clear and no-nonsense the guy is.
> 
> Isn’t his Stealth tuned super close to Harman, though?
> 
> Anyhow, back to the topic, beside the holy cow earbuds and FF3, are there any good buds that are not based on MX500 or PK shell? I’m looking forward to make something fancy looking. Maybe I’ll stick some gems on the buds like @FranQL


I believe that their claim to fame is how close he got to the Harman curve, but he didn’t like it—too thin (just as I’ve been saying since I first heard “the Harman Curve”.  So he bumped what Harman scooped (sort of) to make it more enjoyable.  Dan Clark is an engineer, and Harman is accepted as the scientific standard.  As an engineer, you build to what the best scientific standard in the industry.  He just needs to do his own science or Harman needs to bring Dr. Toole back out of retirement (kidding, not kidding).  As an engineer, he wouldn’t be eager to go against the de facto standard.  That would make him an artist LOL.

It reminds me of the Etymotic curve: great….for mono sources!  Their binaural model, which I owned and loved for years, is probably as good as it’s ever been done.  They’ve blamed their thinness on all sorts of things are they’re slowly fixing it, but they just need to go back and look at where they initially went wrong.  Their curve is a hearing aide Target curve designed for clarity in communication with an extended range to replicate perfect human hearing.  A smashing success if that was the goal.  For stereo music, they are thin.  Everyone who has heard them knows this in their heart.  They just get used to it for the sake of science.  The red or orange filters for them is much more to my liking.

I’ll leave the buds question up to someone who knows more about it.  That’s beyond my comfort zone of discussion.


----------



## Ronion (Sep 10, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Mate, you are good at describing sound. Very understandable and clear.


He will never believe you!  He’s always saying “I’m not good at describing sound“ but then delivers a gem! LOL


----------



## samandhi

Bitsir said:


> What are the best Earbuds in these price categories:
> 
> $0-100
> $100-200
> ...


Best is (an even more) subjective term where earbuds are concerned, even more so than in headphones and IEMs IMHO. 

Having said that and knowing that best could be arrived at for different reasons there will be multiple sets in each category, my opinion of those are:


$.01-$100 - Smabat ST10S B&G (you can actually find them less than $100 when a sale hits) and Smabat M2s Pro
$100 - $200 Yinman 2.0 600 (though these are MY favorite, I think they can share the term BEST with) Fiio FF3, and also Yincrow RW2000
$200 - $300 Moondrop Chaconne (also could be shared with) Yincrow RW3000
$300 - $400 Rose Technices Maria II
On the other hand, I would put both pairs of DIY buds that @FranQL made for me on top of that list, but they have no price tag (FQL Grand Finale, and FQL Blackhole Redux).


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> I believe that their claim to fame is how close he got to the Harman curve, but he didn’t like it—too thin (just as I’ve been saying since I first heard “the Harman Curve”.  So he bumped what Harman scooped (sort of) to make it more enjoyable.  Dan Clark is an engineer, and Harman is accepted as the scientific standard.  As an engineer, you build to what the best scientific standard in the industry.  He just needs to do his own science or Harman needs to bring Dr. Toole back out of retirement (kidding, not kidding).  As an engineer, he wouldn’t be eager to go against the de facto standard.  That would make him an artist LOL.
> 
> It reminds me of the Etymotic curve: great….for mono sources!  Their binaural model, which I owned and loved for years, is probably as good as it’s ever been done.  They’ve blamed their thinness on all sorts of things are they’re slowly fixing it, but they just need to go back and look at where they initially went wrong.  Their curve is a hearing aide Target curve designed for clarity in communication with an extended range to replicate perfect human hearing.  A smashing success if that was the goal.  For stereo music, they are thin.  Everyone who has heard them knows this in their heart.  They just get used to it for the sake of science.  The red or orange filters for them is much more to my liking.
> 
> I’ll leave the buds question up to someone who knows more about it.  That’s beyond my comfort zone of discussion.


I have never really liked the Harmon Curve (they didn't survey my thoughts on whether I liked it or not, so it isn't ALL the masses surveyed for it haha). On the other hand, it is a good "starting" point to get a good sound. 

Also, I so agree with your thoughts on Etymotic. But I like that there are a lot of different signatures to be had out there. Things like that give a good contrast/variety to spice things up in the head gear world. This is really the biggest reason I even have so many pieces of head gear to this point. They all have a different tuning (enough to say they don't really sound anything like the others I have). 


Ronion said:


> He will never believe you!  He’s always saying “I’m not good at describing sound“ but then delivers a gem! LOL


IKR? lol


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> So he bumped what Harman scooped (sort of) to make it more enjoyable. Dan Clark is an engineer, and Harman is accepted as the scientific standard


I notice that many audio geeks who transition to manufacturers and produce "well-tuned" stuffs seem to end up with a target that is Harman-ish but with less upper midrange and more around 250Hz. The target found that 64 Audio and Final Audio also looks kind of like harman but with less upper midrange and way more lower midrange (the Final E series target)



samandhi said:


> I have never really liked the Harmon Curve (they didn't survey my thoughts on whether I liked it or not, so it isn't ALL the masses surveyed for it haha). On the other hand, it is a good "starting" point to get a good sound.


Agree, taming a shouty Harman is easier than trying to fix a weird tuning that is boxy, honky and hollow at the same time 



samandhi said:


> On the other hand, I would put both pairs of DIY buds that @FranQL made for me on top of that list, but they have no price tag (FQL Grand Finale, and FQL Blackhole Redux).


What does it take to be Fran's good friend?  Blackhole redux sounds epic.


----------



## mt877

OT: You guys getting enough sleep...? LOL


----------



## samandhi (Sep 10, 2022)

mt877 said:


> OT: You guys getting enough sleep...? LOL


ROFL... That is a good question... 

I didn't know you could look at that sort of information. Where do you go to find this data?

Edit: And WOW! Is that data from the entire Head-Fi forum? I would be proud of that if it didn't make me look like a "big mouth" ....


----------



## mt877 (Sep 10, 2022)

samandhi said:


> ROFL... That is a good question...
> 
> I didn't know you could look at that sort of information. Where do you go to find this data?


Click the "Forums" button on top and scroll down to the bottom to see the stats. We can see who the "abusers" are... LOL


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Click the "Forums" button on top and scroll down to the bottom to see the stats. We can see who the "abusers" are... LOL


Not me uh uh! 

So, I listened to the Ozzy album again (several times) with some buds, and I have found that it just doesn't sound good (to my ears) with any of the more full and "bassy" types of buds (or even ones with super resoltuon). I HAVE found though, that it sounds really good using something like the M2s Pro (SO 100ohm bio or 32ohm drivers). I think they boosted the bass too much on most of these songs. With that playing through a pair with less quantity, it sounds MUCH better. 

I have the Tinhifi P1 planar IEMs and they have always been known to be "bass light" to some, and I can say playing this album through those sound positively bassy still. BTW it also sounds really good from my all BA set too. Using a tube amp is a no-go with this album also. 

It is like watching an old (80s or 90s) movie on a good 4K TV. Those types of movies actually looked better on old TVs.


----------



## rkw

samandhi said:


> It reminds me a bit of the fiasco that was "Metallica - Death Magnetic"


That was bad enough to get mentioned in the Wikipedia entry on loudness war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war#2000s
Look at the amount of clipping:


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 10, 2022)

samandhi said:


> ROFL... That is a good question...
> 
> I didn't know you could look at that sort of information. Where do you go to find this data?
> 
> Edit: And WOW! Is that data from the entire Head-Fi forum? I would be proud of that if it didn't make me look like a "big mouth" ....



LOL! I literally sleep maybe 4 hours a night, but mostly less than that. Plus, I talk too much when I'm bored. That is like the perfect storm for a high post count.

I'll be around less once we start doing formal recording work so I figured I better wear out my welcome while I can...


----------



## esco64

Are the monk lite the best bang for buck and smallest earphones people recommend?

They are 13.49mm in diameter


----------



## emusic13

I agree that the Airs are good too. Quite hard to find here for me but for other countries where the price is more reasonable, its worth a try or addition to the collection.


----------



## syazwaned

JAnonymous5150 said:


> LOL! I literally sleep maybe 4 hours a night, but mostly less than that. Plus, I talk to much when I'm bored. That is like the perfect storm for a high post count.
> 
> I'll be around less once we start doing formal recording work so I figured I better wear out my welcome while I can...


how can you sleep 4 hours per night bro? I usually take 8 hours and that not even enough


----------



## JAnonymous5150

esco64 said:


> Are the monk lite the best bang for buck and smallest earphones people recommend?
> 
> They are 13.49mm in diameter



I don't know about smallest, but they're probably close if they're not the smallest at that measurment. As far as bang for the buck goes, I thought they were pretty terrible. The original Monks and the Monk+ are both decent earbuds which is what prompted me to try the Lites, but the Lites are nothing like the other two.


----------



## esco64

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I don't know about smallest, but they're probably close if they're not the smallest at that measurment. As far as bang for the buck goes, I thought they were pretty terrible. The original Monks and the Monk+ are both decent earbuds which is what prompted me to try the Lites, but the Lites are nothing like the other two.


I'd only be using them for casual gaming and tv. No music. 

So just wondering if anything of same or smaller size was recommended by anyone here 

*i have funny ears, so small form factor required


----------



## JAnonymous5150

syazwaned said:


> how can you sleep 4 hours per night bro? I usually take 8 hours and that not even enough



I wish I could sleep more, but I can't. I have had some insomnia problems since I was a teenager, but my military service and the subsequent issues have definitely made it worse by a lot. I have real trouble turning my mind/thoughts off.

Not to get to into it, but my psychiatrist thinks I'm likely bipolar. He won't diagnose it thus far because it's hard to separate some of the indicators for it from the symptoms of PTSD and paranoia/hyper-vigilance/etc. When I get a bit further along in tackling my other issues I may eventually be able to find out but I don't really care about the terminology to be honest.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 10, 2022)

esco64 said:


> I'd only be using them for casual gaming and tv. No music.
> 
> So just wondering if anything of same or smaller size was recommended by anyone here
> 
> *i have funny ears, so small form factor required



They'd probably be fine for most speech based stuff. I'm probably not the best person to ask for recommendations for smaller earbuds because I'm lucky in that my ears aren't very picky about the size of the shells I put in then so I don't pay much attention. Though I believe the Qian39 is known for being quite small and a lot of people like it.

Hopefully some of the vastly more experienced earbud aficionados on here that are well versed in shell sizes can help you out some more. Guys like @WoodyLuvr and @samandhi and @Ronion and others who know a lot more than I do might be able to chime in.

I hope you find what you're looking for!


----------



## Braekfast

Got my first diy order about ready to go, after spending most of the day going through the DIY thread and this one and looking at other DIY builds. 
I just gotta root around the shed tomorrow and see if I actually still have some soldering tin still around like I remember, otherwise I'll order some so I can (hopefully) get everything in one go. It wasn't in the box with my soldering station, so I'll have to look through the many, many little parts compartments  

I've currently got these on my little list. 


Spoiler: drivers



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000281063945.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000220039317.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002096357615.html





Spoiler: Cables



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32820539003.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001613178617.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000908606284.html


Along with some regular black shells, horseshoes and WhiteTF's. I spend entirely too much time deciding which of the 19-21 drivers to go for. I'm still not completely sure but I figured I should pick something and get on with it. 
Cables are a bit of a matter of taste, I suspect. I quite like the idea of the cloth one with black shells and white foams. But the other two might be snazzy as well. I'm leaning the least to the 4 core one, even though I rather like the brown colour, because I remember hating the 4 core cable on my NICEHCK B40.


----------



## povidlo

WoodyLuvr said:


> Like it's older sister the PT2021, the higher impedances are recommended. Avoid the 32Ω version!
> 
> More *here* about the PT2021... they are very similar sounding and tuned to the newer PT2022. The PT2022 has been tuned for slightly more bass that is about it sound wise. Please note that the general "house sound" of this brand can be quite fatiguing for the treble sensitive.


Do you like both? I like PT2021 so I ordered PT2022 but I find it inferior so far. Clarity and resolution are down. Both are 365 versions.


----------



## jeejack

Braekfast said:


> Got my first diy order about ready to go, after spending most of the day going through the DIY thread and this one and looking at other DIY builds.
> I just gotta root around the shed tomorrow and see if I actually still have some soldering tin still around like I remember, otherwise I'll order some so I can (hopefully) get everything in one go. It wasn't in the box with my soldering station, so I'll have to look through the many, many little parts compartments
> 
> I've currently got these on my little list.
> ...


All off them are good basy drivers, the 64 ohms are dark but with @Rary rivet mod are good. I like the RY and tiger cables


----------



## Braekfast

jeejack said:


> All off them are good basy drivers, the 64 ohms are dark but with @Rary rivet mod are good. I like the RY and tiger cables


Those silver buds with the purple foams are really pretty!

Are the RY cables stiffer than the tiger cables in your experience? I have one bud that uses the tiger cable and I like it well enough. The problem I had with my B40 4core cable is that it got rather stiff, so if I rolled it up or bent it in its container, it would very quickly start keeping that shape which made them annoying to wear. But maybe the RY cables are higher quality. 

Would you say the 64ohms are darker than the 32 ohm red dots? I was pretty much stuck deciding between the 64ohm 19-21 Blue Dot Ti and 32ohm 19-21 Black Dot Bio for the longest time, but I went with the 64 ohm just because it had a different impedance pretty much. 
Maybe a bit of a silly question, but Rary's guide gives instruction for both a "simple back hole" and the rivet mod. But what difference do these make? I suppose I just don't quite understand what the tube from the rivet mod adds to the equation, since both mods seem to add pretty much the same hole in the back of the shell (only one with tube and one sans tube). 
The earbud rankings also make mention of a "3 holes mod", but either that's not explained anywhere or I'm once again being blind and just reading over it.


----------



## esco64

JAnonymous5150 said:


> They'd probably be fine for most speech based stuff. I'm probably not the best person to ask for recommendations for smaller earbuds because I'm lucky in that my ears aren't very picky about the size of the shells I put in then so I don't pay much attention. Though I believe the Qian39 is known for being quite small and a lot of people like it.
> 
> Hopefully some of the vastly more experienced earbud aficionados on here that are well versed in shell sizes can help you out some more. Guys like @WoodyLuvr and @samandhi and @Ronion and others who know a lot more than I do might be able to chime in.
> 
> I hope you find what you're looking for!


Ok hopefully they reply


----------



## o0genesis0o

mt877 said:


> OT: You guys getting enough sleep...? LOL



Jezz, I am talkative, but does Head-Fi need to put me on the list


----------



## Ronion

esco64 said:


> Are the monk lite the best bang for buck and smallest earphones people recommend?
> 
> They are 13.49mm in diameter


I didn’t like the Monk Lite at all.  In that shell, I’m not sure there are a lot of options and that the smallest commercial shell I know of.  I think the Qian 39 is probably thought of more highly than the Monk, but the Zen LL and Lite even higher but a lot more money.


----------



## shenshen (Sep 10, 2022)

i was free for a time, but alas...






rikubuds berserker 2

first impressions:
never thought i would hear these levels of bass from earbuds

very dynamic and energetic, very fun listen yet doesnt leave me wanting in other aspects of sq

always really enjoyed the qian39/monk lite shell, so naturally really like these shells


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 11, 2022)

Hey guys, I just bought a pair of the Penon Audio BS1 Officials that I got for a good used price. I still have to wait for them to be shipped, but in the meantime I have a couple questions I was hoping maybe I could get some answers to.

So first off, I have heard that the fit can be a little temperamental. I have seen some good solutions on the BS1 thread, but if anyone has them I'd love to hear how you wear them and what foam/ring/fin/hook setup you have going on.

Second, I have also read in a few places that the BS1s favor certain sources over others. If anyone has any sources that you think are a good match or have particularly strong synergy with the BS1s I'd be happy to hear about it so I can see what I have that might work well with them.

Obviously, anything other relevant info or advice you guys might have would be welcome. I have heard from a couple people that the BS1s can sound really special if you get it right and after finally finding the right combo to unlock the VE Sun Dice's potential I was hoping to get this right without the two weeks of frustration lol!


----------



## syazwaned

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I wish I could sleep more, but I can't. I have had some insomnia problems since I was a teenager, but my military service and the subsequent issues have definitely made it worse by a lot. I have real trouble turning my mind/thoughts off.
> 
> Not to get to into it, but my psychiatrist thinks I'm likely bipolar. He won't diagnose it thus far because it's hard to separate some of the indicators for it from the symptoms of PTSD and paranoia/hyper-vigilance/etc. When I get a bit further along in tackling my other issues I may eventually be able to find out but I don't really care about the terminology to be honest.




Sorry to hear that. Luckily you have audio hobby which is a positive hobby, although your wallet wouldn't consider that as a positive hobby 😆😆


----------



## JAnonymous5150

syazwaned said:


> Sorry to hear that. Luckily you have audio hobby which is a positive hobby, although your wallet wouldn't consider that as a positive hobby 😆😆



Happiness is always a good investment! Money comes and goes and I'd rather be enjoying great music through a variety of great gear than counting my cash all Scrooge style listening to garbage. My wallet should be whipped into submission by this point lol! 😂


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hey guys, I just bought a pair of the Penon Audio BS1 Officials that I got for a good used price. I still have to wait for them to be shipped, but in the meantime I have a couple questions I was hoping maybe I could get some answers to.
> 
> So first off, I have heard that the fit can be a little temperamental. I have seen some good solutions on the BS1 thread, but if anyone has them I'd love to hear how you wear them and what foam/ring/fin/hook setup you have going on.
> 
> ...



Are you talking about this one?





They look light and easy to wear though. Craftsmanship looks good too. Looking forward for your impressions.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 11, 2022)

povidlo said:


> Do you like both? I like PT2021 so I ordered PT2022 but I find it inferior so far. Clarity and resolution are down. Both are 365 versions.


*Personally*, I never really liked either the PT2022 or the PT2021, in any impedance, due to fatiguing "hot" treble.

Regarding a comparison between the PT2022 and PT2021... sound wise the only difference I had discerned was that the PT2022 had been tuned for slightly more bass but other than that had kept the "house sound" across the board. I don't recall a decrease in resolution, detail, or imaging between the two but I only had the PT2022 for a couple weeks. Perhaps a cable connectivity and/or QA/QC issue perhaps? Did you swap around the cables and inspect the connectors? What is your source (chain) if I may ask? Or... it may very well be that you are a better listener than I and my aging ears missed this entirely  !

That all said, I had listed the PT2021 (high impedance models only) on my now defuncted *god-tier list* as it did a lot of things very well with incredible staging and timbre. The PT2021 is an ultra-detailed earbud with excellent resolution on nearly the same level as the Rose Maria II and ever so slightly less detailed than the NiceHCK EBX21 (another earbud I think well of but are even more treble unfriendly for me unfortunately). All three are excellent reference option for critical listening... that is if you can handle their bright, cold analytical nature which is way too fatiguing for my ears and gave me horrendous head/earaches. Out of the three the PT2021/PT2022 is far less offensive in these regards but still a "no-go" due to my sensitive ears.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Are you talking about this one?
> 
> 
> 
> They look light and easy to wear though. Craftsmanship looks good too. Looking forward for your impressions.



That's the one! I will definitely post some impressions for you, but they have to get here from the UK first.


----------



## ttorbic

shenshen said:


> i was free for a time, but alas...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice, congrats! Hoping someone can compare the Berserker 2 with the popular FF3 🤞


----------



## o0genesis0o

Gear for today: Creative Sound Blaster X1 > GEM 001 (yup, I name my DIY buds now, I have that much vanity  )

Some quick thoughts about GEM 001 (Version 0.0.1: 64 ohm Ti composite driver + vent + filter):

These stock MX500 shells look so cheap and flimsy, but they are very comfortable and durable. I dropped these buds many times in the last few days, but they are just fine. Because they are light, they don't scratch my screens when I accidentally drop the buds on the screens either.
My pride would say that GEM 001 matches or even exceeds FF3, especially in holographic soundstage and resolution, whilst keeping up with FF3 in terms of bass quantity. These drivers are amazing.
My reviewer-side would say that FF3 still has an upper hand in the bass texture, bass extension, and that grand presentation.
A lot more to learn ahead. I'm curious what GEM 002 would sound like, because I have no idea what I am going to make. Going driver shopping on aliexpress at the moment


----------



## captione

o0genesis0o said:


> Gear for today: Creative Sound Blaster X1 > GEM 001 (yup, I name my DIY buds now, I have that much vanity  )
> 
> Some quick thoughts about GEM 001 (Version 0.0.1: 64 ohm Ti composite driver + vent + filter):
> 
> ...


Welcome to the DIY rabbithole man, glad you took the plunge. If you think the prebuilts wasn't deep enough, try glossing over drivers, tuning materials, shells, cables and even SOLDERING.


----------



## shenshen

ttorbic said:


> Nice, congrats! Hoping someone can compare the Berserker 2 with the popular FF3 🤞


unfortunately i dont own a pair nor do i plan to. all future purchases will be from diy makers and i plan to start building my own pairs as well.


----------



## esco64

Ronion said:


> I didn’t like the Monk Lite at all.  In that shell, I’m not sure there are a lot of options and that the smallest commercial shell I know of.  I think the Qian 39 is probably thought of more highly than the Monk, but the Zen LL and Lite even higher but a lot more money.


Thanks.  I just ordered monk lite, qian 39 and yincrow x6, as they're so cheap. 

What earpad replacement covers do you guys use/rec? 

I'm interested in comfort,  and will be using for non competitive gaming and tv/movie watching.

Was thinking to grab these...

https://amzn.eu/d/43KyAnU


----------



## captione

esco64 said:


> Thanks.  I just ordered monk lite, qian 39 and yincrow x6, as they're so cheap.
> 
> What earpad replacement covers do you guys use/rec?
> 
> ...


Can't suggest colored foams. The dye on those kinds of foams are not washed well so it might stain your ears with a lil bit of sweat (and also staining the white finish of your earbuds!). I suggest washing and drying them first before using but that might be a pain to some so I'd just go straight to black foams. 
My usual recommendations are Hiegi (full foam and donut) and VE foams (porous, full, both in different densities).


----------



## baskingshark

captione said:


> Can't suggest colored foams. The dye on those kinds of foams are not washed well so it might stain your ears with a lil bit of sweat (and also staining the white finish of your earbuds!). I suggest washing and drying them first before using but that might be a pain to some so I'd just go straight to black foams.
> My usual recommendations are Hiegi (full foam and donut) and VE foams (porous, full, both in different densities).



Agreed, I had some coloured foams run and discolour my shirt and even cables.

I've boycotted cheap no-name coloured foams since then


----------



## esco64

baskingshark said:


> Agreed, I had some coloured foams run and discolour my shirt and even cables.
> 
> I've boycotted cheap no-name coloured foams since then


What do you use then?  Post links if you can please


----------



## WoodyLuvr

esco64 said:


> What do you use then?  Post links if you can please


Remember the search field is your friend... it has been discussed heavily in this thread too many times to count.

*All About Flathead Earbud Cushions*

Many of is like (prefer) Hiegi, Trig Rain, and VE foams:

*HongKong Hiegi Electronics Co., Limited*
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-17101400
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16084297
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32753761717.html
https://www.amazon.com/HIeGI-Quality-Replacement-Cushion-Headsets/dp/B00CBTOMV6

*Trig Rain *_*(they don't seem to bleed, or as badly, as other brands)*_
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32671911259.html

*Venture Electronics*
https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=14


----------



## FranQL (Sep 11, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Gear for today: Creative Sound Blaster X1 > GEM 001 (yup, I name my DIY buds now, I have that much vanity  )
> 
> Some quick thoughts about GEM 001 (Version 0.0.1: 64 ohm Ti composite driver + vent + filter):
> 
> ...



64 Ti comp is a great controller, especially good for acoustic music, but... In my opinion it may be too much for other genres with more instruments or overloaded tracks like rock derivatives for example. It must be taken into account that the raw material, that is to say the character of a driver, is the one from the factory, and that cannot be changed, if the raw material is good an excellent tuning can be achieved, but the main properties/character of the sound will always be what it is, there is no more, as we say here: "the miracles in Lourdes".

An example, if you want a sound "everyone likes" use reddot 32 Ohm, but in my case, I will never like it at all....it lacks so many things....yes, the amount of bass can blind you, but there is what there is and there is no more.

Of course, you can't ask for more than a €5 build (reddot), it's incredible value. 64ti comp reminds me a lot of the reddot character 32 etc, it's that universal sound line, that's where it gets serious!!!! Congratulations!!!!


----------



## o0genesis0o (Sep 11, 2022)

FranQL said:


> 64 Ti comp is a great driver, especially good / outstanding for acoustic music, but... IMO it may be too much for other genres with more instruments or overdriven tracks like rock derivatives for example. Keep in mind that the raw material, that is to say the character of a driver, is the one from the factory, and that cannot be changed, if the raw material is good an excellent tuning can be achieved, but the main properties / character of the sound it will always be what it is, there is no more, as we say here: "the miracles in Lourdes".
> 
> An example, if you want a sound "that everyone likes" use reddot 32 Ohm, but in my case, I will never fully like it.... it lacks so many things.... yes, the amount of bass can blind you, but there is what there is and there is no more.
> 
> Of course you can't ask for more from a €5 build (reddot), it's crazy value. 64ti comp is another story, that's where things get serious!!!! Congratulations!!!!


Thanks! I don't mean to sound arrogant or anything like that. I guess the kind of sound of this driver works well with my library and the criteria that I index when reviewing head-fi gears.

Much more to learn. Much more to try. Looking forward to hear those insane 300ohm and 600ohm drivers  

Edit: I finally have time to work on the FF3 review. Hopefully I can get it done before a couple of DAC/AMPs and IEMs come for me to review.

Edit 2: The bass of FF3 is truely something special. Even my HD560s headphone and Beyerdynamic COP+ does not provide that kind of textured low end. Cello sounds so addictive on FF3.


----------



## FranQL

o0genesis0o said:


> Thanks! I don't mean to sound arrogant or anything like that. I guess the kind of sound of this driver works well with my library and the criteria that I index when reviewing head-fi gears.
> 
> Much more to learn. Much more to try. Looking forward to hear those insane 300ohm and 600ohm drivers
> 
> Edit: I finally have time to work on the FF3 review. Hopefully I can get it done before a couple of DAC/AMPs and IEMs come for me to review.



It's just what I told you yesterday: no one knows the sound you want better than yourself, when you make constructions for yourself.... the result is impressive and gratifying. and much cheaper! LOL


----------



## syazwaned

WoodyLuvr said:


> Remember the search field is your friend... it has been discussed heavily in this thread too many times to count.
> 
> *All About Flathead Earbud Cushions*
> 
> ...


hiegi is the best 😍😍


----------



## Ronion

esco64 said:


> What do you use then?  Post links if you can please


HieGi

They do not get more comfortable or durable.  QA is unbeatable.

Venture Electronics 

Wide variety of densities.  You can literally tune your buds to taste with these.  I’ve had a bad batch or two before where a couple of the thin ones ripped easily (particularly the orange), but usually they are great.  The thick ones are very comfortable and I particularly like their thick donuts.  Who doesn’t like donuts?


----------



## fooltoque

FranQL said:


> It's just what I told you yesterday: no one knows the sound you want better than yourself, when you make constructions for yourself.... the result is impressive and gratifying. and much cheaper! LOL


This is what I found when I started roasting my own coffee beans, which is why I am interested in this DIY stuff. But I don't have the confidence that I'll be able to make something to match my preferences. And then I think about how I'll be 6 months down the road and owning 50+ pairs of buds in various stages of satisfaction... coffee is a consumable so I can keep making more and it just disappears down my throat. But the earbuds won't!


----------



## mt877 (Sep 11, 2022)

fooltoque said:


> This is what I found when I started roasting my own coffee beans, which is why I am interested in this DIY stuff. But I don't have the confidence that I'll be able to make something to match my preferences. And then I think about how I'll be 6 months down the road and owning 50+ pairs of buds in various stages of satisfaction... coffee is a consumable so I can keep making more and it just disappears down my throat. But the earbuds won't!


Another deep rabbit hole in this hobby. Maybe you'll be lucky from your first build, but it's highly unlikely you'll be able to turn out that low cost final grand set of buds without investing time and money into the DIY process. You see some of the "low cost" final grand builds posted here, but realize they are being done by people that have invested much time experimenting, spending money on materials and possibly measurement rigs to get to that "low cost" final grand build, so not really "low cost" in the end. So far I've done 5 DIY builds from scratch and I do like what I've built, but I'm not totally satisfied with them either so I can fully understand where you are coming from.

Edit: Just adding that hopefully I will eventually get to my end game build or not. It is an adventure, just have fun along the way, know that others have been down this same road and have been successful and that you can be too no matter how many builds it takes or not.


----------



## FranQL (Sep 11, 2022)

fooltoque said:


> This is what I found when I started roasting my own coffee beans, which is why I am interested in this DIY stuff. But I don't have the confidence that I'll be able to make something to match my preferences. And then I think about how I'll be 6 months down the road and owning 50+ pairs of buds in various stages of satisfaction... coffee is a consumable so I can keep making more and it just disappears down my throat. But the earbuds won't!




That answer is totally contrary to my philosophy, I do not go into evaluations. Each person decides what interests them most of course.

*DIY:* by @furyossa


----------



## Into The Light5

fooltoque said:


> This is what I found when I started roasting my own coffee beans, which is why I am interested in this DIY stuff. But I don't have the confidence that I'll be able to make something to match my preferences. And then I think about how I'll be 6 months down the road and owning 50+ pairs of buds in various stages of satisfaction... coffee is a consumable so I can keep making more and it just disappears down my throat. But the earbuds won't!


Do it, maybe try a pair or 2 haha, it is fun. i crafted some of my earbuds from scratch and i asked several of my friends to try. If they like it they can keep it, i even give some of my mid end build with the 600 ohm beryllium and 130 ohm berylium. I just like seeing their happy face when they using my crafted buds


----------



## mt877 (Sep 11, 2022)

Deleted... added my closing sentence to my original reply to @fooltoque.


----------



## Ronion

My problem now is that I have too many great builds.  It’s a good problem to have I suppose, but I’ve started gifting them to friends who are into music.  I get so many “thank you! I had the best time fishing listening to these buds.“ Or: “They are incredible!  Every song that came on, they sound so spot on! It’s like I’m hearing everything, etc...”  It brings me joy every week knowing that something I did is appreciated to such a degree by others.  I actually ordered drivers last night just to build for other people.  So many people I know want my buds now.  My measurement rig did cost me $30, but the time it took to build it…..  not many people are going to do that.  That requires an intense fascination with sound and audio and a lack of confidence in the intellects designing audio equipment. My library of books on acoustics and psychoacoustics is where the real cost came in, not to mention the time spent reading them—even though they are real page turners LOL!  Nowadays China makes rubbery ears that you could build a rig from.  Dayton audio builds a mic that can be plugged into your computer or phone… Things are much, much easier.  Still, no one does it.  But they will spend a lot of money on gear That takes a lot of time to earn.  People like to collect pottery, and some of them decide to become potters, but those are probably the minority.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 11, 2022)

F'ing epic! The late Foo Fighters Taylor Hawkins 16-yo son Shane Hawkins destroys the drums in a tribute to his father. My RikuBuds Berserker's went berserk playing this music video.



The kid completely killed it! I would have loved to been there. Really do hope he finds or creates a sick band of his own one day!


----------



## assassin10000

Ronion said:


> My measurement rig did cost me $30, but the time it took to build it…..  not many people are going to do that.  That requires an intense fascination with sound and audio and a lack of confidence in the intellects designing audio equipment.


I think mine cost me around the same. Just took some time to figure out a consistent rig.


Ronion said:


> My library of books on acoustics and psychoacoustics is where the real cost came in, not to mention the time spent reading them—even though they are real page turners LOL!


Neat, I never got into all that. Just used EQ with music I liked to figure out my ideal sound sig and then built/tuned to match as best I could.


Ronion said:


> Nowadays China makes rubbery ears that you could build a rig from.  Dayton audio builds a mic that can be plugged into your computer or phone… Things are much, much easier.  Still, no one does it.  But they will spend a lot of money on gear That takes a lot of time to earn.  People like to collect pottery, and some of them decide to become potters, but those are probably the minority.


Yeah, I use an imm-6 with a custom earbud coupler that I built to match the response I get from a mold of my actual ear.

I was pleasantly surprised to see how close this style setup got me to IEM curves.


----------



## SBranson (Sep 11, 2022)

I have a new favourite TGXEar earbud..  the Alpha.
We had a recent mini-meet with 4 headfi’ers including @tgx78 and he brought over an Alpha for me to try out.  It was too loud at the meet up to listen but when I got home it wasn’t but a ,after of minutes before I pm’ed “sold”.

I‘ve been away from iems for a few months now listening to my headphones but mostly the Serratus and Tantalus…. At the meet I was surprised to discover that I don’t really like iems as much anymore.  Timbre is the most important element to me, having instruments sound realistic.  I’ve been playing instruments all my life as has @tgx78 so I think his tuning matches my ear perfectly. 
I got to hear again some totl iems including the Jewel, XE6, EXT, Supermoon, among others..  some did some amazing things, better technically than my earbuds but on the whole even the $5k Jewel did not sound as natural.  Maybe it’s due to isolation, or the lack of it in earbuds..  Also very much due to my preferences as the Supermoon had the tightest cleanest bass I’ve heard but with more impact than any BA bass.  All other bass sounded wooly and slow..  But the rest of the freqs. didn’t sound as natural as my earbuds.

Anyway, onto the Alpha.  To my ears it’s a warmish iem with an underlying sparkle or treble definition that keeps it clean sounding. It has more depth of stage than the Serratus which is in part to what I hear as a maybe more recessed midrange. 

On a song like this, it’s a tough call which I prefer as each seems to have a different focus.  The Serratus is a bit cleaner, maybe quicker with more emphasis on the attack of the tones.






On this song though is where the Alpha pulls ahead.  There is more air around the violin that gives a full sense of the instrument.  Piano overtones don’t ring as sharply and hang in the air a bit longer.






This more “hardened“ character of the Serratus translates across the board for me with a cleaner bass and mid bass, a sharper treble and more forward mids.  The Alpha is a bit softer but has amazing air and staging along with a more realistic timbre.
I think music library choices would dictate preference.  For solo instruments that I listen to, like piano and lute and baroque music where I like to hear the instruments, I’d reach for the Alpha every time.  The Serratus though sounds great with more electronic, ambient music and some of my classical crossover. 

Overall, two extremely capable earbuds.  Looking forward to the next models..


----------



## Ronion

FranQL said:


> That answer is totally contrary to my philosophy, I do not go into evaluations. Each person decides what interests them most of course.
> 
> *DIY:* by @furyossa


This graphic is a fact.  I buy new gear no matter what.  I just spend a lot less on it now and it’s better sounding than ever.  So much commercial gear is badly mistuned and a lot of time this malalignment is often touted or hyped as some sort of magic by reviewers (not necessarily pro ones by they are also guilty of this), then a week later you can’t listen to them anymore.  That NEVER happens now.


----------



## samandhi

emusic13 said:


> I agree that the Airs are good too. Quite hard to find here for me but for other countries where the price is more reasonable, its worth a try or addition to the collection.


I would still love to have a set. They just look really unique (which seems to draw me to them). 


Braekfast said:


> Got my first diy order about ready to go, after spending most of the day going through the DIY thread and this one and looking at other DIY builds.
> I just gotta root around the shed tomorrow and see if I actually still have some soldering tin still around like I remember, otherwise I'll order some so I can (hopefully) get everything in one go. It wasn't in the box with my soldering station, so I'll have to look through the many, many little parts compartments
> 
> I've currently got these on my little list.
> ...


I am curious to know how things go for you with these?!


o0genesis0o said:


> Jezz, I am talkative, but does Head-Fi need to put me on the list


LOL I kinda' thought the same thing. But, consider this: it could be considered bad if you simply talk, talk, talk but on the other hand it could be good if you spend most of your time helping others, or learning, etc... The latter is the way I prefer to think of myself where this is concerned (whether it is seen as true by others or not)... 


esco64 said:


> Thanks.  I just ordered monk lite, qian 39 and yincrow x6, as they're so cheap.
> 
> What earpad replacement covers do you guys use/rec?
> 
> ...





captione said:


> Can't suggest colored foams. The dye on those kinds of foams are not washed well so it might stain your ears with a lil bit of sweat (and also staining the white finish of your earbuds!). I suggest washing and drying them first before using but that might be a pain to some so I'd just go straight to black foams.
> My usual recommendations are Hiegi (full foam and donut) and VE foams (porous, full, both in different densities).


I have to agree with all those suggestions people have made (Heigi, VE, Trig Rain) but a newest favorite available that seems really good also is the FiiO FF3 foams (even though they are not colored).


----------



## ian91 (Sep 11, 2022)

SBranson said:


> I have a new favourite TGXEar earbud..  the Alpha.
> We had a recent mini-meet with 4 headfi’ers including @tgx78 and he brought over an Alpha for me to try out.  It was too loud at the meet up to listen but when I got home it wasn’t but a ,after of minutes before I pm’ed “sold”.
> 
> I‘ve been away from iems for a few months now listening to my headphones but mostly the Serratus and Tantalus…. At the meet I was surprised to discover that I don’t really like iems as much anymore.  Timbre is the most important element to me, having instruments sound realistic.  I’ve been playing instruments all my life as has @tgx78 so I think his tuning matches my ear perfectly.
> ...



I will take timbre and tonality over highly technical but oddly tuned any day of the week. By not sealing the ear canal and  having a flat head, earbuds distribute the sound more naturally producing a more realistic sound, for my preferences anyway.

The Alpha sounds like a nice compliment to the Serratus. Mine should be here soon!


----------



## o0genesis0o

Into The Light5 said:


> Do it, maybe try a pair or 2 haha, it is fun. i crafted some of my earbuds from scratch and i asked several of my friends to try. If they like it they can keep it, i even give some of my mid end build with the 600 ohm beryllium and 130 ohm berylium. I just like seeing their happy face when they using my crafted buds


My pride moment is when my wife listens to my buds and say “wow, they are really good”, and then stole the buds for the whole evening. (She still went back to her over ears Sony XM4 after the novelty was gone though).

That 130ohm Be sounds appealing. Not too difficult to drive, and because of Fiio, I always think of Be drivers as something special.



Ronion said:


> My problem now is that I have too many great builds.  It’s a good problem to have I suppose, but I’ve started gifting them to friends who are into music.  I get so many “thank you! I had the best time fishing listening to these buds.“ Or: “They are incredible!  Every song that came on, they sound so spot on! It’s like I’m hearing everything, etc...”  It brings me joy every week knowing that something I did is appreciated to such a degree by others.  I actually ordered drivers last night just to build for other people.  So many people I know want my buds now.  My measurement rig did cost me $30, but the time it took to build it…..  not many people are going to do that.  That requires an intense fascination with sound and audio and a lack of confidence in the intellects designing audio equipment. My library of books on acoustics and psychoacoustics is where the real cost came in, not to mention the time spent reading them—even though they are real page turners LOL!  Nowadays China makes rubbery ears that you could build a rig from.  Dayton audio builds a mic that can be plugged into your computer or phone… Things are much, much easier.  Still, no one does it.  But they will spend a lot of money on gear That takes a lot of time to earn.  People like to collect pottery, and some of them decide to become potters, but those are probably the minority.


It took a lot of convincing for me to buy the IEC711 coupler as well. Though if I have the financial means like some folks who can add 5k IEM, 2k cable, and 3k DAP to their collection, I would   



Ronion said:


> This graphic is a fact.  I buy new gear no matter what.  I just spend a lot less on it now and it’s better sounding than ever.  So much commercial gear is badly mistuned and a lot of time this malalignment is often touted or hyped as some sort of magic by reviewers (not necessarily pro ones by they are also guilty of this), then a week later you can’t listen to them anymore.  That NEVER happens now.



Aren’t pro ones (like the ones from big review websites) the one who rarely rate anything low?


----------



## fooltoque

Into The Light5 said:


> Do it, maybe try a pair or 2 haha, it is fun. i crafted some of my earbuds from scratch and i asked several of my friends to try. If they like it they can keep it, i even give some of my mid end build with the 600 ohm beryllium and 130 ohm berylium. I just like seeing their happy face when they using my crafted buds


I think I will at some point. It does sound really fun, and my experience with coffee leads me to believe that tuning it exactly to your own taste instead of accepting something that is made to appeal to some majority (plus whatever cost cutting measures they can throw in) is really worth it in the end.


----------



## Into The Light5

o0genesis0o said:


> My pride moment is when my wife listens to my buds and say “wow, they are really good”, and then stole the buds for the whole evening. (She still went back to her over ears Sony XM4 after the novelty was gone though).
> 
> That 130ohm Be sounds appealing. Not too difficult to drive, and because of Fiio, I always think of Be drivers as something special.
> 
> ...


Yup the 130 ohm Be is known good for majority, it is a well regarded driver, check out DIY earbud thread, oh also i think there is rary driver list with its review in there. 500 Be and 600 Be is also another beast, the 600 ohm be is used in toneking to600 if im not wrong


----------



## samandhi

Into The Light5 said:


> Yup the 130 ohm Be is known good for majority, it is a well regarded driver, check out DIY earbud thread, oh also i think there is rary driver list with its review in there. *500 Be and 600 Be is also another beast, the 600 ohm be is used in toneking to600 if im not wrong*


I wonder if it isn't also used in the Yinman 2.0 600?! If you are saying it is a "beast" then it wouldn't surprise me, because this driver is a really good driver (that happens to also be tuned very well).


----------



## povidlo

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Personally*, I never really liked either the PT2022 or the PT2021, in any impedance, due to fatiguing "hot" treble.
> 
> Regarding a comparison between the PT2022 and PT2021... sound wise the only difference I had discerned was that the PT2022 had been tuned for slightly more bass but other than that had kept the "house sound" across the board. I don't recall a decrease in resolution, detail, or imaging between the two but I only had the PT2022 for a couple weeks. Perhaps a cable connectivity and/or QA/QC issue perhaps? Did you swap around the cables and inspect the connectors? What is your source (chain) if I may ask? Or... it may very well be that you are a better listener than I and my aging ears missed this entirely  !
> 
> That all said, I had listed the PT2021 (high impedance models only) on my now defuncted *god-tier list* as it did a lot of things very well with incredible staging and timbre. The PT2021 is an ultra-detailed earbud with excellent resolution on nearly the same level as the Rose Maria II and ever so slightly less detailed than the NiceHCK EBX21 (another earbud I think well of but are even more treble unfriendly for me unfortunately). All three are excellent reference option for critical listening... that is if you can handle their bright, cold analytical nature which is way too fatiguing for my ears and gave me horrendous head/earaches. Out of the three the PT2021/PT2022 is far less offensive in these regards but still a "no-go" due to my sensitive ears.


I think your ears are alright, most of your assessments make good sense to me. Naturally I've tried it with different sources etc. I mostly listened to PT2022 through D90SE/THX AAA 789 desktop combo which is best match I've found for PT2021. Maybe I got a lemon, this brand has poor reputation so wouldn't be an astonishment. In terms of tangible differences, price was halved for PT2022. Shell is smaller. It's also missing the large round vent present on PT2021. But turns out the vent is just a cosmetic decoration, there's no change to sound upon covering it.


----------



## Into The Light5

samandhi said:


> I wonder if it isn't also used in the Yinman 2.0 600?! If you are saying it is a "beast" then it wouldn't surprise me, because this driver is a really good driver (that happens to also be tuned very well).






Probably haha, never heard any yinman before. also the to300 using this lcp driver with the 300 ohm variant. Ohh i remember someone mention that the ff3 and trn emx probably use the same driver, i mean checkout the driver spec, very similiar, it is 45 ohm, 14.2mm and BE plated, except for the sensitivity haha


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Into The Light5 said:


> Probably haha, never heard any yinman before. also the to300 using this lcp driver with the 300 ohm variant. Ohh i remember someone mention that the ff3 and trn emx probably use the same driver, i mean checkout the driver spec, very similiar, it is 45 ohm, 14.2mm and BE plated, except for the sensitivity haha



I own both and if the EMA uses the same driver as the FF3 then the folks at TRN should close down their earbud production and stick to cables! The EMA is a neat budget offering, but if the driver in it is capable of sounding similar to the FF3 then TRN is incompetent on an incomprehensible level! 😂


----------



## drewbadour

SBranson said:


> I have a new favourite TGXEar earbud..  the Alpha.
> We had a recent mini-meet with 4 headfi’ers including @tgx78 and he brought over an Alpha for me to try out.  It was too loud at the meet up to listen but when I got home it wasn’t but a ,after of minutes before I pm’ed “sold”.
> 
> I‘ve been away from iems for a few months now listening to my headphones but mostly the Serratus and Tantalus…. At the meet I was surprised to discover that I don’t really like iems as much anymore.  Timbre is the most important element to me, having instruments sound realistic.  I’ve been playing instruments all my life as has @tgx78 so I think his tuning matches my ear perfectly.
> ...


Mine should be coming this week! Even more excited now!


samandhi said:


> I wonder if it isn't also used in the Yinman 2.0 600?! If you are saying it is a "beast" then it wouldn't surprise me, because this driver is a really good driver (that happens to also be tuned very well).


Speaking of 600Be, the alpha uses this too!


----------



## samandhi

Into The Light5 said:


> Probably haha, never heard any yinman before. also the to300 using this lcp driver with the 300 ohm variant. Ohh i remember someone mention that the ff3 and trn emx probably use the same driver, i mean checkout the driver spec, very similiar, it is 45 ohm, 14.2mm and BE plated, except for the sensitivity haha


Well, it sort of dawned on me when I made that comment that on the seller's AE page, it mentions "Toneking" as the maker (as the eagle-eye @baskingshark spotted). So, I wonder if it is not in fact a typo?! 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> I own both and if the EMA uses the same driver as the FF3 then the folks at TRN should close down their earbud production and stick to cables! The EMA is a neat budget offering, but if the driver in it is capable of sounding similar to the FF3 then TRN is incompetent on an incomprehensible level! 😂


That is a very interesting! I wonder if the shell makes THAT much of a difference for the FF3? I mean, we know that they tuned it well, but to my ears, the driver is a really good one, and you can't tune that into a set.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Well, it sort of dawned on me when I made that comment that on the seller's AE page, it mentions "Toneking" as the maker (as the eagle-eye @baskingshark spotted). So, I wonder if it is not in fact a typo?!
> 
> That is a very interesting! I wonder if the shell makes THAT much of a difference for the FF3? I mean, we know that they tuned it well, but to my ears, the driver is a really good one, and you can't tune that into a set.



That's what I'm sayin'! If the EMA uses the same driver its almost as if they would have had to intentionally handicap it for the buds to sound so completely different. I really don't think they use the same driver.


----------



## samandhi

rkw said:


> That was bad enough to get mentioned in the Wikipedia entry on loudness war.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war#2000s
> Look at the amount of clipping:


BTW, if you are interested in hearing the difference on this album, you can go here to hear the (consumer) remastered version. It appears the 24/96 links are dead, but you can still listen to the Redbook version.


----------



## christianfps

Hi guys quite an off topic question. 
Can you guys tell the difference between Spotify (Very High) Streaming vs Tidal's Master streaming quality?


----------



## baskingshark

samandhi said:


> Well, it sort of dawned on me when I made that comment that on the seller's AE page, it mentions "Toneking" as the maker (as the eagle-eye @baskingshark spotted). So, I wonder if it is not in fact a typo?!



It really wouldn't surprise me if Toneking is related to Yinman in some way, the CHIFI industry is really very small and there are lots of symbiosis, OEM and stuff going on. Many source parts from the same factory and are related in some form.

Anyways Toneking is pretty niche even among CHIFI IEMs and earbuds, as they don't really advertise heavily on western forums, and they don't give out review units too. Most of their IEMs are kind of cult classics, with only a small number of reviews (or some IEMs even have ZERO reviews). Their earbuds are pretty good, but IEMs wise, they are kind of hit or miss.


----------



## drewbadour

Is it confirmed that the longyao yinman 2.0 600 is the 600be driver?


----------



## samandhi

drewbadour said:


> Is it confirmed that the longyao yinman 2.0 600 is the 600be driver?


No, just conjecture at this point.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 12, 2022)

povidlo said:


> Do you like both? I like PT2021 so I ordered PT2022 but I find it inferior so far. Clarity and resolution are down. Both are 365 versions.





povidlo said:


> I think your ears are alright, most of your assessments make good sense to me. Naturally I've tried it with different sources etc. I mostly listened to PT2022 through D90SE/THX AAA 789 desktop combo which is best match I've found for PT2021. Maybe I got a lemon, this brand has poor reputation so wouldn't be an astonishment. In terms of tangible differences, price was halved for PT2022. Shell is smaller. It's also missing the large round vent present on PT2021. But turns out the vent is just a cosmetic decoration, there's no change to sound upon covering it.


Yes, forgot to mention that. Good call out. Concur, I also believe that port is simply a gimmick. I too heard no difference when covering up the port with cloth tape, blue tack, and/or simply with my finger pad pressed up against it though a few have said they thought they heard a difference in the lower frequencies (better extension), as well in the higher frequencies (more air and sparkle) so who knows... 🤷‍♂️ LOL!


----------



## Into The Light5

samandhi said:


> Well, it sort of dawned on me when I made that comment that on the seller's AE page, it mentions "Toneking" as the maker (as the eagle-eye @baskingshark spotted). So, I wonder if it is not in fact a typo?!
> 
> That is a very interesting! I wonder if the shell makes THAT much of a difference for the FF3? I mean, we know that they tuned it well, but to my ears, the driver is a really good one, and you can't tune that into a set.


Im not sure about ema, but the emx and ema seems using different driver, i mean the impedance alone is different, and the diaphgram looks like regular pet


----------



## JAnonymous5150

baskingshark said:


> It really wouldn't surprise me if Toneking is related to Yinman in some way, the CHIFI industry is really very small and there are lots of symbiosis, OEM and stuff going on. Many source parts from the same factory and are related in some form.
> 
> Anyways Toneking is pretty niche even among CHIFI IEMs and earbuds, as they don't really advertise heavily on western forums, and they don't give out review units too. Most of their IEMs are kind of cult classics, with only a small number of reviews (or some IEMs even have ZERO reviews). Their earbuds are pretty good, but IEMs wise, they are kind of hit or miss.



I have a few Toneking earbuds (Viridis, Mr Z's Tomahawk, TP16, and a TO600) all of which I like, but I haven't grabbed any Toneking IEMs. I use IEMs for months at a time during tours and such so especially since building a viable earbud collection, I haven't been using them much for listening to music. Still at some point I'd like to try the TK12, the Nine Tails, and the T88k as those are the three that have piqued my interest for varying reasons. 

If all goes well, I should have the Nine Tails headed to me in trade for a pair of Etymotic ER3XRs in a week or so when an acquaintance comes to visit SoCal. I have heard aome good things about the Nine Tails so I'm pretty stoked about possibly getting them.

It's clear based on my experience with their earbuds, that Toneking knows a thing or two about good in ear transducer systems and I wouldn't be surprised if I end up owning more Toneking earbuds in the future as well since there are more that I would like to try and I see them around used for pretty modest prices. 

When I mention them amongst the IEM enthusiasts I know about half have heard of them, but very few have heard or owned a Toneking product. Amongst the few other earbud aficionados I kick it with Toneking is well known and they all own ot have owned at least one Toneking earbud, two have owned multiple, and one of them owns six IIRC! Just more proof that earbud aficionados are, in fact, the more enlightened clique amongst the audiophile community! 😜


----------



## koniotaur

It seems that Yincrow has new earbud called Calf.
https://aliexpi.com/8gQA
https://twitter.com/hckexin/status/1560921112027877377


----------



## baskingshark (Sep 12, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I have a few Toneking earbuds (Viridis, Mr Z's Tomahawk, TP16, and a TO600) all of which I like, but I haven't grabbed any Toneking IEMs. I use IEMs for months at a time during tours and such so especially since building a viable earbud collection, I haven't been using them much for listening to music. Still at some point I'd like to try the TK12, the Nine Tails, and the T88k as those are the three that have piqued my interest for varying reasons.
> 
> If all goes well, I should have the Nine Tails headed to me in trade for a pair of Etymotic ER3XRs in a week or so when an acquaintance comes to visit SoCal. I have heard aome good things about the Nine Tails so I'm pretty stoked about possibly getting them.
> 
> ...



Bro I have the Toneking Ninetails IEM.

It is named Ninetails, after a Japanese/Chinese Fox Spirit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_spirit






Basically this Fox Spirit can shapeshift and take human appearances, and based on mythology, it may be a mischievous spirit. So the IEM actually lives up to its namesake, as there are tuning nozzles at the front and back of the housing to give 9 different sound signatures, from basshead to V shaped to neutral. Very versatile as such.

It looks like a gourd that will give an awkward fit, but once u angle it 45 degrees anteriorly when inserting, it is quite comfortable.
Isolation is crap though, due to an open backed design, but this gives good soundstage, so it is a double edged sword.





Technically, unfortunately it is quite sub-par at the $100ish bracket, with not that good micro-details or instrument separation. Bass is also sluggish and bleeds on the basshead setting. But the basshead tuning can really rumble the jaw when amplified. The timbral accuracy is excellent though, and since there are 9 different sound signatures, most folk should find something to like about the tonality.

I still keep my set around!


----------



## thedjkhalid

Been wondering what is the current best Yuin Pk style earbud?

Is it still the Shozy BK?


----------



## Ronion

I tuned the 500 Ohm drivers tonight.  These drivers are built for speed, but I decided to add a little bit of badonk and wobble in'em.  Just for fun.  Fat bottoms and all...



These sound like how they graph--an FF3 with added bass LOL.  Just what the world needed.  Certainly not the deepest bass and they are definitely a bit too much and the FF3 are solidly more balanced.  It would be boring if they were all the same.

I also tuned another TG38, but this one deserves a more mature tuning as it's near and dear to me:



It's close enough to perfect now, but in a week or 2 it should literally be so.  It doesn't really matter though as this is close enough.  It's a glorious bud.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

baskingshark said:


> Bro I have the Toneking Ninetails IEM.
> 
> It is named Ninetails, after a Japanese/Chinese Fox Spirit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_spirit
> 
> ...



Thanks for all the info! Do you have a review up on head-fi that talks about the fox spirit stuff? If you do I've read it and if not that's a crazy coincidence.

I like detail and technicalities as much as the next guy, but timbral accuracy and smooth cohesive tuning is much harder to come by and in bud and IEMs I'm buying for casual listening purposes at lower prices I'll trade the technicalities for a good tuning/timbral performance and satisfying listen every time!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

thedjkhalid said:


> Been wondering what is the current best Yuin Pk style earbud?
> 
> Is it still the Shozy BK?



Simphonio Dragon 3 is the best PK style bud I have heard and own, but it is quite expensive. I also own and really enjoy the Shozy BK too so its definitely a solid choice for a bit less money. The Simphonio Dragon 2+ is another great PK shelled option, though I like the Shozy BK a bit better. And if you're looking to spend a bit less than those I actually like the Shozy Cygnus too, but it's not in the same league as the other three, IMO.


----------



## thedjkhalid

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Simphonio Dragon 3 is the best PK style bud I have heard and own, but it is quite expensive. I also own and really enjoy the Shozy BK too so its definitely a solid choice for a bit less money. The Simphonio Dragon 2+ is another great PK shelled option, though I like the Shozy BK a bit better. And if you're looking to spend a bit less than those I actually like the Shozy Cygnus too, but it's not in the same league as the other three, IMO.


Thank you for your input!

I did have the shozy cygnus and I did like it quite a bit but the wire got damaged and I was unable to use it anymore.  

I was wondering if the Shozy BK wire is a good quality wire and if you have had any issues with it?


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 12, 2022)

thedjkhalid said:


> Thank you for your input!
> 
> I did have the shozy cygnus and I did like it quite a bit but the wire got damaged and I was unable to use it anymore.
> 
> I was wondering if the Shozy BK wire is a good quality wire and if you have had any issues with it?



The Shozy BK wire is a bit thicker than the Cygnus wire, but not by much. It seems to have adequate strain relief and be well made. I haven't had any trouble with the cable on the BKs yet, but I have only owned them for about a month. FWIW, I have owned the Cygnus for almost 5 months at this point and they are doing fine as well. 

I don't think I'm any lighter on my gear than the average person although I do try to be aware of the cable and not yank or get it caught on things, though it does sometimes happen ofc. I also roadie wrap my cables when storing my earbuds and I never wrap them tighter than 3 finger widths in diameter to limit cable stress and failure problems. This system has served me well. Just FYI.

Either way, I think the Shozy BKs seem like quality earbuds and I imagine they will hold up well. They are a good listen and a comfy fit to boot. I hope you find what you're looking for.

Edit: And in case you're considering the Dragon 3s you should know that they have a very high quality cable on them and are a truly impressive sounding earbud. They present a very full clear and balanced aound with an exceptional ability to project sound well outside the listener's head in any direction in the large 3D soundstage that they create. Thats why the Shozy BKs are second to the Dragon 3s in my PK shell collection and experience.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Routine: practice, compare to recording of Perlman, cry, repeat   

What buds do you use today, folks?


----------



## Ronion

It’s going to be the 500Ohm I just tuned.  I hope FiiO’s FF5 is high impedance with technicalities like this 500Ohm.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> It’s going to be the 500Ohm I just tuned.  I hope FiiO’s FF5 is high impedance with technicalities like this 500Ohm.


What kind of source is necessary to drive a pair of 500 ohm buds properly? I think even VE Megatron only aims at 300ohm.


----------



## baskingshark

o0genesis0o said:


> What kind of source is necessary to drive a pair of 500 ohm buds properly? I think even VE Megatron only aims at 300ohm.



Actually the impedance is just one part of the equation. The sensitivity is also very important (if not more important) when it comes to driving a transducer properly.

I use this calculator sometimes to see if a source can adequately drive something: https://www.headphonesty.com/headphone-power-calculator/


----------



## chavez

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I own both and if the EMA uses the same driver as the FF3 then the folks at TRN should close down their earbud production and stick to cables! The EMA is a neat budget offering, but if the driver in it is capable of sounding similar to the FF3 then TRN is incompetent on an incomprehensible level! 😂




You mistaken EMA for EMX. EMX released last week and uses Bery driver, EMA uses classic PET driver.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

baskingshark said:


> Actually the impedance is just one part of the equation. The sensitivity is also very important (if not more important) when it comes to driving a transducer properly.
> 
> I use this calculator sometimes to see if a source can adequately drive something: https://www.headphonesty.com/headphone-power-calculator/


This as well as acoustic damping. So impedance, sensitivity, and any/all acoustic damping (damping materials used to tune the driver to include shell size, type, material, and vents/ports)


----------



## Ronion (Sep 12, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> What kind of source is necessary to drive a pair of 500 ohm buds properly? I think even VE Megatron only aims at 300ohm.


They can do okay with a 1V dongle, but better with 2.  I have to crank mine all the way up to get subjectively loud.  This driver has a lot of potential.  I may just tune it closer to my curve tonight.  This is fun though so maybe I should just leave it for the sake of variety.  This driver has soundstage, separation and composure for days.  I ordered the 600, but this one is really is a TOTL driver.  We’ll just have to see about that 600.  It’s not hard to hear why that room preference curve has so much bass.


----------



## samandhi (Sep 12, 2022)

koniotaur said:


> It seems that Yincrow has new earbud called Calf.
> https://aliexpi.com/8gQA
> https://twitter.com/hckexin/status/1560921112027877377


@WoodyLuvr has it on his timeline


JAnonymous5150 said:


> Thanks for all the info! Do you have a review up on head-fi that talks about the fox spirit stuff? If you do I've read it and if not that's a crazy coincidence.
> 
> I like detail and technicalities as much as the next guy, but timbral accuracy and smooth cohesive tuning is much harder to come by and in bud and IEMs I'm buying for casual listening purposes at lower prices I'll trade the technicalities for a good tuning/timbral performance and satisfying listen every time!


Heck with that! I want it all in one.... 


o0genesis0o said:


> What kind of source is necessary to drive a pair of 500 ohm buds properly? I think even VE Megatron only aims at 300ohm.


Assuming it is very inefficient (we'll say 91dB/mW for this example) what you would need to drive them to 110dBSPL is:


80mW
6.32Vrms
12.6mA
But if it is fairly efficient (110dB/mW) then you would need:


1mW
.71Vrms
1.4mA


----------



## jeejack

o0genesis0o said:


> Routine: practice, compare to recording of Perlman, cry, repeat
> 
> What buds do you use today, folks?


My new pink dot builds, one with metal mesh + wood shell and one with plastic faceplates + mmcx MX500 shell.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

chavez said:


> You mistaken EMA for EMX. EMX released last week and uses Bery driver, EMA uses classic PET driver.



I'm not the one who mistook anything. That's why I have been saying that the EMA, which I own, doesn't have the same driver as the FF3, which I also own lol!😂


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Routine: practice, compare to recording of Perlman, cry, repeat
> 
> What buds do you use today, folks?



My posts about PK shells and the Dragon 3s have me listening to them as I have been getting ready to head out this morning. I have them plugged in to the Cayin N8ii and the sound/pairing is very, very nice! 👍


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Hey guys, I know this isn't the best place to ask, but seeing as how you guys are my bffs on here I figured you'd be the most likely to forgive the off topic question and help/answer. How do I put something in my signature behind a spoiler wall? I'm pretty new to this whole forum thing so don't make fun of me too hard...

I like having my gear in my signature, but I dislike how long it's getting and I'm sure it's annoying for those who couldn't care less about my stuff lol!


----------



## Eduardiofilo

Ronion said:


> It’s going to be the 500Ohm I just tuned.  I hope FiiO’s FF5 is high impedance with technicalities like this 500Ohm.


How did you tuned the 500 Ohm? I am very interested in 600ohms and 500 ohms drivers


----------



## samandhi (Sep 12, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hey guys, I know this isn't the best place to ask, but seeing as how you guys are my bffs on here I figured you'd be the most likely to forgive the off topic question and help/answer. How do I put something in my signature behind a spoiler wall? I'm pretty new to this whole forum thing so don't make fun of me too hard...
> 
> I like having my gear in my signature, but I dislike how long it's getting and I'm sure it's annoying for those who couldn't care less about my stuff lol!


You can either use the "spoiler" button at the top, or you can use BBCode which would look like this


```
[spoiler=title on the spoiler]
Message you want hidden.
[/spoiler]
```

Here is what that looks like live:



Spoiler: title on the spoiler



Message you want hidden.



Or uyou can just copy the code I typed and replace the text you want. 

Edit: I like to put pictures behind spoilers, because some people here still have slow internet, and it pretty much crashes them, so instead of putting text for the message (or in addition to), you can put a picture there...


----------



## dinodogJR (Sep 12, 2022)

Hi,
i am a Yuin PK 2 user. Currently i am pairing it with Sony Walkman A55 as DAC for computer music listening.
I was missing out Earbuds fashion for many years as TWS is my highest interest. As you can noticed i am still with PK 2.
I had spent on quite a few cheap earphones that didn't satisfy me after my PK 2 was damaged for many years. I got it recabled with Moondrop cable only 2 years ago.

These days, i got more time to sit in front of computer to discipline myself to work more profession. I got this pair of ATH AD700 opened can but i am not feeling comfortable for over an hour. It hurts my ears. Now i am looking for any earbuds is possibly to reach a Headphone soundstage as close as possible. I know there's impossible to reach to bass quality in small earbuds.
After two weeks of studies, i came across a few models such as Yincrow Calf, Yincrow RW-2000, Toneking To400s or others similar price point as option are welcomed recommendation.
NiceHCK ebx21 & BGVP DX6 are not really popular here but they are very welcomed in Taiwan/China areas. I like those quality build just my taste of music are towards Western side more heavily : Deftones, Twilight Singers, Explosions in the sky, NIN, Ministry, Nailbomb, Underworld, Fourtet, Tricky, Bjork, Mark Lanegan, Tindersticks, Radiohead, Jeff Buckley, Elliott Smith and any types of Grunge rock.

Hopefully there's all-rounded earbuds with even solid bass, better soundstage and imaging.
I am very much enjoying PK 2 sound signature. I not sure is it called Warm sound.
Most of my time i am into Bright sound. i was started this audiophile hobby with a Grado SR60.

Hope its not too much to ask for a favor here.
Thanks guys~


----------



## samandhi

dinodogJR said:


> Hi,
> i am a Yuin PK 2 user. Currently i am pairing it with Sony Walkman A55 as DAC for computer music listening.
> I was missing out Earbuds fashion for many years as TWS is my highest interest. As you can noticed i am still with PK 2.
> I had spent on quite a few cheap earphones that didn't satisfy me after my PK 2 was damaged for many years. I got it recabled with Moondrop cable only 2 years ago.
> ...


I recommend either FiiO FF3, Yincrow RW2000, or Yincrow RW3000 (for a bit more money). They are all great for the type of music you want. The FF3 has the best staging of all of those though. The RW3000 is the brightest of all of them (but still rounded). The RW2000 are a great all-rounder with nothing too far boosted or recessed. 

I can't speak to the Calf, as I don't have them, nor have I read on here about anyone having them yet.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> You can either use the "spoiler" button at the top, or you can use BBCode which would look like this
> 
> 
> ```
> ...



You, my friend, are the best! Nailed it! Took me all of 30 seconds. I have no idea what the spoiler button is, but copy and paste I can do lol! 😂

You have to remember that I am technologically umm...special. If you know what I mean.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

dinodogJR said:


> Hi,
> i am a Yuin PK 2 user. Currently i am pairing it with Sony Walkman A55 as DAC for computer music listening.
> I was missing out Earbuds fashion for many years as TWS is my highest interest. As you can noticed i am still with PK 2.
> I had spent on quite a few cheap earphones that didn't satisfy me after my PK 2 was damaged for many years. I got it recabled with Moondrop cable only 2 years ago.
> ...



As @samandhi recommended, the Fiio FF3s sounds like they would be absolutely spectacular for your musical preferences. The FF3s have the low end power, the larger soundstage, and a huge presentation that should be awesome for that stuff.

The two other buds that I own that seem like possible matches would be the Ucotech ES-P1s and the Simphonio Dragon 3s. I think the Dragon 3s might be a little too polite for some of your preferences though they do have a soundstage that is very over ear like. The ES-P1s sound a lot like a good over ear as well and they have a good low end as well, but I think the FF3s would be better for musical acts similar to the ones you mentioned.

I hope this helps!


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> You, my friend, are the best! Nailed it! Took me all of 30 seconds. I have no idea what the spoiler button is, but copy and paste I can do lol! 😂
> 
> You have to remember that I am technologically umm...special. If you know what I mean.


It's all good bro, we gotcha'. 

To make it easier, and you don't have to actually type it the long way, the button allows you to do the same thing that I typed, but just by clicking a button, and filling in the text you want show as the title. Then you simply need to type your message, or insert the picture. There is also a "preview" button at the top right to check to make sure it works right.

Here is a picture of the spoiler button:



Spoiler


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> It's all good bro, we gotcha'.
> 
> To make it easier, and you don't have to actually type it the long way, the button allows you to do the same thing that I typed, but just by clicking a button, and filling in the text you want show as the title. Then you simply need to type your message, or insert the picture. There is also a "preview" button at the top right to check to make sure it works right.
> 
> ...



I was right about which button it was, but it didn't do anything when I tried to use it. I'm on mobile right now. Maybe that has something to do with it?


----------



## samandhi (Sep 12, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I was right about which button it was, but it didn't do anything when I tried to use it. I'm on mobile right now. Maybe that has something to do with it?


It might be the browser you are using (or rather a setting). I use it on mobile once in a while, and it works fine for me.

If you cannot get it to work, and have to type the tags out, then this guide should work for you. BB Code is super simple to use and there are things you can do with it, that DON'T have buttons on here (most people probably don't realize). It does appear that some BB Code has been disabled on this site though.

It really is just a matter of putting the command in between [command] and then a [/command] to close the code command.

Like this to make text bold:

```
Here is some [b]Bold text[/b].
```

which looks like this live:

Here is some *Bold text*.

Hopefully that is helpful?!


----------



## waynes world

SBranson said:


> I have a new favourite TGXEar earbud..  the Alpha.
> We had a recent mini-meet with 4 headfi’ers including @tgx78 and he brought over an Alpha for me to try out.  It was too loud at the meet up to listen but when I got home it wasn’t but a ,after of minutes before I pm’ed “sold”.
> 
> I‘ve been away from iems for a few months now listening to my headphones but mostly the Serratus and Tantalus…. At the meet I was surprised to discover that I don’t really like iems as much anymore.  Timbre is the most important element to me, having instruments sound realistic.  I’ve been playing instruments all my life as has @tgx78 so I think his tuning matches my ear perfectly.
> ...



Great impressions, thanks! I'm also loving "Thrown", so thanks for the new music


----------



## Sam L

o0genesis0o said:


> Routine: practice, compare to recording of Perlman, cry, repeat
> 
> What buds do you use today, folks?



I caught Perlman in recital just before the pandemic. One of the highlights of my concert / recital attending. Ranked right up there with my attendance of Nathan Milstein's last (or second to last?) performance before he passed on. Fantastic picture, by the way!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> It might be the browser you are using (or rather a setting). I use it on mobile once in a while, and it works fine for me.
> 
> If you cannot get it to work, and have to type the tags out, then this guide should work for you. BB Code is super simple to use and there are things you can do with it, that DON'T have buttons on here (most people probably don't realize). It does appear that some BB Code has been disabled on this site though.
> 
> ...



Awesome! Thanks for the info and the link. I didn't know about the BB code stuff.


----------



## samandhi

Sam L said:


> I caught Perlman in recital just before the pandemic. One of the highlights of my concert / recital attending. Ranked right up there with my attendance of Nathan Milstein's last (or second to last?) performance before he passed on. Fantastic picture, by the way!


@o0genesis0o Yes, I meant to also comment on this as being great picture!


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Awesome! Thanks for the info and the link. I didn't know about the BB code stuff.


Your welcome! 

Yeah, normally I just type it out unless it is something pretty complicated. It is actually easier for me so I don't have to take my hands off the keyboard to use the mouse. 


> “You get used to it. *I* *don*’*t* even *see* the *code* *anymore*, all I see is blonde, redhead, brunette,..”


 - Cipher, The Matrix


----------



## jeejack

jeejack said:


> My new pink dot builds, one with metal mesh + wood shell and one with plastic faceplates + mmcx MX500 shell.


----------



## FranQL

jeejack said:


>



they look amazing, a clean and perfect finish as always, I imagine they must sound like angels


----------



## Chessnaudio

waynes world said:


> Great impressions, thanks! I'm also loving "Thrown", so thanks for the new music


My Tantalus are arriving this week. Quite excited


----------



## weexisttocease

My Tantalus arrived today from Jim. 😀


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 13, 2022)

Chessnaudio said:


> My Tantalus are arriving this week. Quite excited


Very soon...


weexisttocease said:


> My Tantalus arrived today from Jim. 😀


Me too!

I am honestly god smacked at the moment about how good these buds sound! I have been really quite surprised by what *@tgx78*, *@RikudouGoku*, and *@FranQL* have accomplished both tuning and quality building wise. We need to come up with a new term as "DIY" simply doesn't work for these gents at all! Doesn't even come close!

This 500ΩBery driver scales like mad! Quite remarkably I am finding that the Tantalus is ever so slightly harder to drive than my *Longyao-Yinman 2.0 600 LE; 600Ω* which I believe has a sensitivity around 90-91dB/mW! So the combined driver sensitivity and acoustic damping rating of the Tantalus is probably around 89-90dB/mW, incredible! Well it has been *confirmed* by *@drewbadour* that the Yinman driver has a sensitivity of 87dB/mW so my Tantalus MMCX are probably 85-86dB/mW, damn... 

I will report more soon.



Spoiler: tgxear Tantalus MMCX; 500Ω Pic



Earbuds: tgxear Tantalus MMCX; 500Ω
Adapter: tgxear 4-PIN XLR to 4.4TRRRS (4.4MM PENTACONN)


----------



## ian91

WoodyLuvr said:


> Very soon...
> 
> Me too!
> 
> ...



Beautiful buds for a beautiful amp! Bet its great to watch them scale .


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Very soon...
> 
> Me too!
> 
> ...


Thos ARE indeed very nice looking!

The word "Custom" fits well for motorcycles when there is a very competent bike maker that does DIY stuff.


----------



## weexisttocease

WoodyLuvr said:


> Very soon...
> 
> Me too!
> 
> ...



I only listened briefly but these have a fantastic timbre and soundstage. They are way harder to drive than my PXVV, probably I will need drive them with Amp12 from the DX320.


----------



## samandhi

weexisttocease said:


> I only listened briefly but these have a fantastic timbre and soundstage. They are way harder to drive than my PXVV, probably I will need drive them with Amp12 from the DX320.


That will do it...


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> @WoodyLuvr has it on his timeline
> 
> Heck with that! I want it all in one....
> 
> ...


The description of the driver looks like this:


----------



## o0genesis0o (Sep 12, 2022)

samandhi said:


> @WoodyLuvr has it on his timeline
> 
> Heck with that! I want it all in one....
> 
> ...



I was thinking 80mW is not that bad. My BTR5 is 80mW max output via 3.5mm. And then I remember BTR5 is 80mW@32ohm, this is 80mW@500ohm  



Sam L said:


> I caught Perlman in recital just before the pandemic. One of the highlights of my concert / recital attending. Ranked right up there with my attendance of Nathan Milstein's last (or second to last?) performance before he passed on. Fantastic picture, by the way!



Thanks mate. I have never heard Perlman in real life. I remember in one of the interviews, he said that he had to play slower because the reverb in the concert halls make his high-speed passages sound sloppy. Can’t even imagine his speed and precision.

The last violin concert that I attended was by an Australian violinist named Ray Chen. His control over dynamic and phrasing is breath taking. I recommend his Sibelius and Mendelssohn.



jeejack said:


>



Very nice!. That MX500 buds seem so well finished. Mine has molding seams and tool marks all over. Did you do anything to improve the finish?

And how do you tune those wooden buds? I don’t see any vents.


----------



## samandhi (Sep 12, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> I was thinking 80mW is not that bad. My BTR5 is 80mW max output via 3.5mm. And then I remember BTR5 is 80mW@32ohm, this is 80mW@500ohm


True, but the BTR5 can actually do 160mW (80mW + 80mW) @32ohms from 3.5mm SE. It can do 480mW (240mW + 240mW) @32 out of 2.5mm Balanced.

So for 3.5mm what you would have from the BTR5 at 500 ohms:

10.24mW
2.263Vrms
4.524mA
And what you need to drive the buds to 110dBSPL:


7mW
1.87Vrms
3.7mA
So, from SE you will be able to drive them pretty loud, but you won't have much headroom, nor am I convinced they won't sound fairly flat, and lacking in dynamics because of this. Also, keep in mind this isn't necessarily real world. This is best case scenerio based on the numbers given by all parties involved.

Thanks @Ronion for finding the numbers..


----------



## ttorbic

samandhi said:


> True, but the BTR5 can actually do 160mW (80mW + 80mW) @32ohms from 3.5mm SE. It can do 480mW (240mW + 240mW) @32 out of 2.5mm Balanced.
> 
> So for 3.5mm what you would have from the BTR5 at 500 ohms:
> 
> ...


Oooh maybe you can finally answer a question I've had about power outputs: why did you sum 240+240 mW, even though on the specs it just says 240 mW? 

I've seen some people do the same for the Megatron and saying the output is 300+300 mW, even though the specs just say 300 mW.

Thanks for your help


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> True, but the BTR5 can actually do 160mW (80mW + 80mW) @32ohms from 3.5mm SE. It can do 480mW (240mW + 240mW) @32 out of 2.5mm Balanced.
> 
> So for 3.5mm what you would have from the BTR5 at 500 ohms:
> 
> ...



I don’t think we are supposed to sum up the power output of two channels? Say, BTR5 can put 80mW into each channel (i.e. one earbud). It’s not that each bud can get power from both ESS chips at the same time (80+80)


----------



## samandhi

ttorbic said:


> Oooh maybe you can finally answer a question I've had about power outputs: why did you sum 240+240 mW, even though on the specs it just says 240 mW?
> 
> I've seen some people do the same for the Megatron and saying the output is 300+300 mW, even though the specs just say 300 mW.
> 
> Thanks for your help


Because that is what it says on their website:



Spoiler









But read below, I think I was wrong in summing them. 


o0genesis0o said:


> I don’t think we are supposed to sum up the power output of two channels? Say, BTR5 can put 80mW into each channel (i.e. one earbud). It’s not that each bud can get power from both ESS chips at the same time (80+80)


Actually, now that I sit and think about it, I think you are right, and I was wrong on that one. They are (each) 500 ohms apiece and are wired parallel rather than series. I need to look this one up because now you got me wondering.

Technically speaking the buds don't get power from each ESS DAC chip, they get the power from the Amplifier. The ESS is only a digital to analog converter that is before the amp stage. And since your output is wired for stereo, the numbers CAN be given in "per channel" rather than as a simple whole number (which most companies do). Why they do this, I don't really know, maybe they think it looks better? 

Now, on cheaper or smaller applications the amplifier CAN be also on the DAC chip, but it is still considered separate in the chain either way.


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> Because that is what it says on their website:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I’ve always thought that those ESS can be used as all-in-one. The BTR7 is special because it uses ESS purely as DAC and use 2 (or 4?) THX AAA amp chips.

Anyhow, baseless assumptions on my side. I don’t quite understand electronics


----------



## samandhi (Sep 12, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> I don’t think we are supposed to sum up the power output of two channels? Say, BTR5 can put 80mW into each channel (i.e. one earbud). It’s not that each bud can get power from both ESS chips at the same time (80+80)


So, given that then it would look more like this:

BTR5 can provide @500ohms:


5.12mW
1.6Vrms
3.2mA
Which would not be enough to drive the drivers to 110dBSPL, though you WOULD get sound out of them. lol

If you ran them out of 2.5mm balanced, you should be able to drive them (though how well, is really up to the listener).


----------



## samandhi (Sep 12, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> I’ve always thought that those ESS can be used as all-in-one. The BTR7 is special because it uses ESS purely as DAC and use 2 (or 4?) THX AAA amp chips.
> 
> Anyhow, baseless assumptions on my side. I don’t quite understand electronics


No, you are correct in certain applications. It is like today's CPUs for phones. They have the CPU and video card on the same chip, rather than isolated or separate (discrete) from each other. This is a great way to both save money and make them smaller (for smaller devices). The problem is that any time you don't have discrete electronics, you sacrifice something (lesser quality sound, noise, heat, etc...) of some kind.

For instance, my DX300 has 4 DAC chips (that each have 2 channels per chip for a total of 8 possible DAC channels) and a totally separate amplifier (which can be changed out for different amplifier cards), but my lil' Shanling M0, on the other hand has the DAC and amplifier both built into the same chip.

Hopefully that is more helpful than confusing?!  

Edit: Having said all that though, the signal still follows the same path. Digital sound files need to be converted to analog signals, then amplified (very simplified signal path) in order to be sent out to your ears..


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> No, you are correct in certain applications. It is like today's CPUs for phones. They have the CPU and video card on the same chip, rather than isolated or separate (discrete) from each other. This is a great way to both save money and make them smaller (for smaller devices). The problem is that any time you don't have discrete electronics, you sacrifice something (lesser quality sound, noise, heat, etc...) of some kind.
> 
> For instance, my DX300 has 4 DAC chips (that each have 2 channels per chip for a total of 8 possible DAC channels) and a totally separate amplifier (which can be changed out for different amplifier cards), but my lil' Shanling M0, on the other hand has the DAC and amplifier both built into the same chip.
> 
> ...



That makes a lot of sense.

I have a Shanling UP4 coming, which has a "boost" feature that makes both DAC/AMP chips working together over the single-ended output. Very curious to see how it goes. 

Re: BTR5, they sound alright. Clear and crisp, but lacking a bit of grunt of KA3. I always wonder whether that is because of the extra power output (120mW@32ohm vs 80mW@32ohm) or because of something else. I still don't understand. Why KA3 sounds more impactful than anything else in my collection, even when I listen with Andromeda, which only needs peanuts to power? 

Anyhow, I blame @baskingshark. I was fine with any source, and then he convinced me that sources are different, now I rant like a madman about different DAC/AMP


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Anyhow, I blame @baskingshark. I was fine with any source, and then he convinced me that sources are different, now I rant like a madman about different DAC/AMP



LOL missing that bissful ignorance already, huh?


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> That makes a lot of sense.
> 
> I have a Shanling UP4 coming, which has a "boost" feature that makes both DAC/AMP chips working together over the single-ended output. Very curious to see how it goes.
> 
> ...


Sweet! Do let us know how it sounds with some of your buds?! I look forward to hearing about it. 

It COULD be the power difference, but I suspect it is simply how it is tuned (they are tuned to have a certain sound just like head gear) and/or the synergy. If you have listened to (some of) the big named DAPs you would definitely hear a difference in tuning using the same head gear with them all. 

A&K is known for being reference, and in your face. iBasso is known for being smooth and a bit musical, but also almost reference. FiiO is known for brightness, and more of a "digital" sound. Shanling is known for being more musical (at the expense of not being too reference). So, past the numbers that also factor in how well they all sound, they each are "colored" to the way the makers tune them. A&K is probably the closest to reference (totally neutral) that I have heard for their "house" tuning, though I have not heard them all to this point. 

At some point with flagship DAPs/portable gear, the numbers don't matter as much anymore, because they are all to the edge of human hearing capabilities (how can you hear noise if it is less than zero already? The numbers might get better, but your hearing STILL doesn't hear it). Some of the numbers become marketing gimmicks to get you to buy a brand (though some really do matter). At that point it really comes down to what signature you prefer because they are all technically near perfect at reproduction (for what they are used for and where our ears are concerned).


----------



## Ronion (Sep 13, 2022)

Eduardiofilo said:


> How did you tuned the 500 Ohm? I am very interested in 600ohms and 500 ohms drivers


Funny part is: I’m not 100% sure, or even 50% sure.  I originally tuned them a long time ago and whatever I put on the driver was still there.  I also left a pair of horseshoe foams on the ground after drinking a few beers and I’m not sure what they were, but that’s what I used.  The only part I’m sure of is the faux port opening which is 0.8mm.  I am going to adjust things today just to tweak them a bit.  These are too good not to perfect.

That’s how easy this stuff is though.  Anyone can do it.  It’s not rocket science and you can tune just about any driver to sound like anything you want.  The thing you can't really improve its technicalities.  You can help soundstage, but not resolution and power handling to any significant degree.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> The only part I’m sure of is the faux port opening which is 0.8mm.



You mean drilling extra holes behind the horse  shoes?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Guess who's lifetime supply of Fiio Bass Foams showed up today? This guy! 😁🤘


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> You mean drilling extra holes behind the horse  shoes?


No, but that’s an interesting idea as well—one I’ve never done though I’ve done holes with foams for sure.  I mean opening up the faux port.  It has a similar effect to drilling a hole except that it effects is a bit deeper.  Certainly doesn’t work for all drivers however.  I only have suspicions about why it works for some drivers and not others.  Drilling a hole always “works”.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Guess who's lifetime supply of Fiio Bass Foams showed up today? This guy! 😁🤘


Sweet bro! Use them wisely, they are powerful things....


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Sweet bro! Use them wisely, they are powerful things....


 You know I will. The funny thing is, I have come to use them on a number of my buds, but I don't use them on the FF3s. I actually currently use my own offset donut foams made from Hiegis inspired by the offset foams that @assassin10000 (I think?) posted about making himself on my FF3s.

P.S. I also got a brand new SPL meter rig for volume matched testing amongst other things. I love package arrival days! 😍


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Routine: practice, compare to recording of Perlman, cry, repeat
> 
> What buds do you use today, folks?



Are you refering to Itzhak Perlman? I think I spelled that right. Just wondering if I have the right guy in mind.


----------



## dinodogJR (Sep 12, 2022)

samandhi said:


> I recommend either FiiO FF3, Yincrow RW2000, or Yincrow RW3000 (for a bit more money). They are all great for the type of music you want. The FF3 has the best staging of all of those though. The RW3000 is the brightest of all of them (but still rounded). The RW2000 are a great all-rounder with nothing too far boosted or recessed.
> 
> I can't speak to the Calf, as I don't have them, nor have I read on here about anyone having them yet.


Fiio FF3 is quite a popular choice in Head-fi with few pages of discussion already. I think is best i wait for a removable MMCX for the next upgrade for FF3. It's very possible changes in their new release. I also not too sure with the "drum"earbud could sit steady on my ear when i exercise my neck. (it's hard to resist not to headbanging on my music..)
As for Calf's review which i read from China forum, the most detailed review one by far compared to its own RW leagues. The Calf got introduce the soundstage came from RW3000 but not as fully grand yet. There is Depth in Calf had succeed what Yuin PK 1 couldn't deliver. Calf is getting tinnier, less weight and more relaxing for longer listening session. It's mid is less crispy and sparkling like RW-2000. So, it is less fatigues for comfort listening.
If Calf can WoW me like a "headphone", i would consider RW3000 for the Top Flagship in Yincrow. They only releasing One Earphone model in a year. They couldn't afford to fail the product anticipation.

Here's a link if you are interested.

https://shopee.tw/音可若瓦-yincrow-小牛-天牛旗艦技術下放-RW-777-MKII-金屬平頭耳塞发燒耳機hifi-超es100-i.13390068.9358136803?sp_atk=8c20b031-72fa-42f6-8eaf-400bf37774dc&xptdk=8c20b031-72fa-42f6-8eaf-400bf37774dc


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Are you refering to Itzhak Perlman? I think I spelled that right. Just wondering if I have the right guy in mind.



Yup, he’s the man. I can never remember the spelling of his first name, but a violinist once told me that “Perlman is pearl, man!”, so I can remember his last name   

Finally working on the FF3 review. I’m surprised that it’s midrange is actually nearly identical to Blessing 2. You know, the current benchmark of “well tuned”.


----------



## dinodogJR (Sep 12, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> As @samandhi recommended, the Fiio FF3s sounds like they would be absolutely spectacular for your musical preferences. The FF3s have the low end power, the larger soundstage, and a huge presentation that should be awesome for that stuff.
> 
> The two other buds that I own that seem like possible matches would be the Ucotech ES-P1s and the Simphonio Dragon 3s. I think the Dragon 3s might be a little too polite for some of your preferences though they do have a soundstage that is very over ear like. The ES-P1s sound a lot like a good over ear as well and they have a good low end as well, but I think the FF3s would be better for musical acts similar to the ones you mentioned.
> 
> I hope this helps!


FF3 will be on my radar in for its upgrade version. Just hope it won't taking many years as earbuds development is slower than IEM market today.
I had checked the Korea Ucotech ES-PS1. The whole earbuds engineering is an eye-opening dark science to me. 
i haven't came across this model during my research.
I am hesistate to pay over mid-budget price point for the Listening joy.
Yeah, it's hard to find Flagship earbuds in the store for auditioning.

Do you have ES-PS 1 in using at the moment? This could be potentially the End-game earbuds for me by its overall Looks and Quality built.
Just wondering Older FLagship earbuds technology would be replace by mid-budget earbuds after a year or so?
Guess this is quite a common trend in IEM market today.


----------



## jeejack

o0genesis0o said:


> I was thinking 80mW is not that bad. My BTR5 is 80mW max output via 3.5mm. And then I remember BTR5 is 80mW@32ohm, this is 80mW@500ohm
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I used stock MX500 shells, I didn't do anything to them. The wooden shells have 3 holes at the top (6 o'clock) which I covered with Y3

 15.4mm MX500 Speaker unit Earphones DIY Shell Case Red Sandalwood Flat Earphones Shells
https://a.aliexpress.com/_msYLFtS

4 Pairs 15.4mm Earphone Shell Case MX500 DIY Speaker Unit Shell Case Flat Headphone Housing Baking Varnish Craft
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMmqrCC


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 13, 2022)

dinodogJR said:


> FF3 will be on my radar in for its upgrade version. Just hope it won't taking many years as earbuds development is slower than IEM market today.
> I had checked the Korea Ucotech ES-PS1. The whole earbuds engineering is an eye-opening dark science to me.
> i haven't came across this model during my research.
> I am hesistate to pay over mid-budget price point for the Listening joy.
> ...



I do own the ES-P1s and they are in fact my favorite earbud I own or have heard if I had to pick just one. On top of sounding wonderful and very much in line with an over ear headphone presentation they are as beautiful and well built as it gets. There is a fantastic review right here on head-fi and another from Headfonics that I will link below. I can say that I own and have tried some of the best earbuds around from new ones to all-time greats from the 80s like the Aiwa HP-V99 and the ES-P1s continue to impress me in new ways every time I listen to them.

For instance, just the other day I was listening to a bunch of prog rock that many IEMs and earbuds struggle with because they have trouble creating adequate staging, layering, and imaging in comparison to over ears which is a shortcoming prog tracks will quickly expose. With the ES-P1s I had to literally keep reminding myself that I was listening on an earbud. Furthermore, as a professional drummer I can tell you that they have some of the most realistic instrument presentation and timbre, especially when it comes to drums, that I have heard and I don't just mean for an earbud, I mean for any transducer medium.

The Ucotech ES-P1s were actually one of the first premium earbuds I picked up and I have listened to many TOTL and flagship offerings since then as I have continued to build my collection and I can say that my opinion of how impressive they are has only grown stronger rather than being diminished by the experience of comparing them to the best of what's available. As with anything in audio, whether or not an earbuds works for you is an entirely subjective experience so at some point you have to either demo it or research and take a leap of faith based upon what others say about a particular pair of buds, but for me these have been worth every penny I paid for them and if I lost them or they were stolen I would absolutely buy them again and in fact I did since my girlfriend decided she needed a pair for herself and started stealing mine whenever I wasn't around. It's important to note that I have been with her for almost 8 years, she has her own impressive headphone and IEM collection and she has never before stolen/borrowed/hijacked any of my sets for her own use since her tastes are often quite different from mine, but the ES-P1s are impressive.

Review links:

https://headfonics.com/ucotech-es-p1-review/

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ucotech-es-p1.23734/reviews


----------



## dinodogJR

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I do own the ES-P1s and they are in fact my favorite earbud I own or have heard if I had to pick just one. On top of sounding wonderful and very much in line with an over ear headphone presentation they are as beautiful and well built as it gets. There is a fantastic review right here on head-fi and another from Headfonics that I will link below. I can say that I own and have tried some of the best earbuds around from new ones to all-time greats from the 80s like the Aiwa HP-V99 and the ES-P1s continue to impress me in new ways every time I listen to them.
> 
> For instance, just the other day I was listening to a bunch of prog rock that many IEMs and earbuds struggle with because they have trouble creating adequate stagining, layering, and imaging in comparison to over ears which is a short coming prog tracks will quickly expose. With the ES-P1s I had to literally keep reminding myself that I was listening on an earbud. Furthermore, as a professiobal drummer I can tell you that they have some of the nost realistic instrument presentation and timbre, especially when it comes to drums, that I have heard and I don't just mean for an earbud, I mean for any transducer medium.
> 
> ...


Waoh... There would be rounds of rounds of applause i could feel if you are making a product review over the ES-PS1. Since morning, I had search hi & lo over Asia forum. This is a quiet flagship out of radar. Either there's no one dare to touch with its hefty price as Earphones. Or just everyone had been sucked into IEM Flagship price is more reasonable craze of spending.

This statement from Headfonics had boosted my excitement.
"Yep, it sounds even more forward than my Zen 2.0 and the older Yuin PK series. Don’t get me wrong, Yuin was a monster back then with the PK1, but with the most respect, my PK1 sounds like its broken compared to the ES-P1."
There's a youtuber claimed this earbuds are very Bad choice for contemporary Electronic music. These earphones is more for vocalist or unprocessed vocals. You did mentioned its excellent even for Progressive Rock. And that's the problem i encountered when the reviewer music taste are far vary from mine. Same situation goes around when i listened to Asian guys high-praised the audio stuff but their music are from Japanese/China/Taiwan pop songs... by worse anime soundtrack with hyper decibel BPM as auditioning sample. (Well, my music is total garbage to them in vice versa...haha).
Your girlfriend is so lucky to enjoy your massive set of listening gears.
I would only using a pair of premium earphones at home to avoid any misery pain later.

Astrotec Lyra Nature Dynamic Limited Edition Green with 150 Ohm. 

I read the head-fi review seems not recommended. Funny thing here is over Headfonics with a High Rating. 
Can this get closer/similar presentation to ES-PS1 in yours? 
This earphone is easier for me without oversea purchasing to avoid the extra Tax.


----------



## captione

Into The Light5 said:


> Probably haha, never heard any yinman before. also the to300 using this lcp driver with the 300 ohm variant. Ohh i remember someone mention that the ff3 and trn emx probably use the same driver, i mean checkout the driver spec, very similiar, it is 45 ohm, 14.2mm and BE plated, except for the sensitivity haha


I'm using these particular drivers on my own MX500 Build. It's basically the 300ohm version of the popular 120/130LCP. Stock form, it's a warm non-fatiguing listen but with some easy tuning you can increase the pinna gain abit and turn it into something of a better reference pair, although treble might be lacking to some.


Spoiler: Picture of the build









It seems that for these LCP variants, the lesser the impedance, the brighter it gets it seems.. There's a 32ohm, 80ohm, 120/130ohm (impedance readings will only roughly measure to those two values anyway hence the slash) and the 300ohm version.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

captione said:


> I'm using these particular drivers on my own MX500 Build. It's basically the 300ohm version of the popular 120/130LCP. Stock form, it's a warm non-fatiguing listen but with some easy tuning you can increase the pinna gain abit and turn it into something of a better reference pair, although treble might be lacking to some.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Picture of the build
> ...



Somehow I only ended up with the 80, 120, and 300 versions in LCP when I went on my DIY driver ordering binge. Looks like I need to go back and pick up the 32ohm version. Thanks for the info and nice buds! I like the understated silver/white on black look.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

I


dinodogJR said:


> Waoh... There would be rounds of rounds of applause i could feel if you are making a product review over the ES-PS1. Since morning, I had search hi & lo over Asia forum. This is a quiet flagship out of radar. Either there's no one dare to touch with its hefty price as Earphones. Or just everyone had been sucked into IEM Flagship price is more reasonable craze of spending.
> 
> This statement from Headfonics had boosted my excitement.
> "Yep, it sounds even more forward than my Zen 2.0 and the older Yuin PK series. Don’t get me wrong, Yuin was a monster back then with the PK1, but with the most respect, my PK1 sounds like its broken compared to the ES-P1."
> ...



Thanks for the kind words! I'm not trying to be an advertiser for Ucotech and I think the guys here that have seen my comments on other earbuds will tell you that I try to be honest when I don't like something and I always try to explain why I feel the way I do, good or bad, about a particular pair of earbuds. I genuinely hate it when people overhype products and make unrealistic or hyperbolic claims about them. So with that in mind, I think what I said about the ES-P1s was accurate and it comes off sounding like a really good review for them because, IMO, they earn the praise.

That's brings me to the Astrotecs. The other folks on this thread may have seen my short writeup about the Astrotec Lyra Collections which are the only Astrotec earbuds I have listened to. So unfortunately I can't comment directly on the Natures, but FWIW I thought the Collections were nice, but they didn't really excel at anything and were overpriced for the performance they offered. If you search this thread for Astrotec Lyra Collection you should be able to find the post I made about them if you're interested in checking it out. I went on to sell them after listening to them a few times because it didn't make sense to keep around a pretty expensive set of earbuds that I wasn't likely to listen to very often. I don't want to try to comment too much from memory here because they didn't stand out much and that post would be more accurate and should be easy to find.

As for the ES-P1s not being good for electronic music, I'm not too sure because I don't listen to much EDM, electonica, drum n bass, etc. I will say that given how the excel at the natural sounds of non electronic instruments and sounds, I could see that kind of thing being outside of the ES-P1's area of expertise. On the other hand, they certainly have the low end reach and the physicality to their bass reproduction that makes them sound awesome with tracks with powerful bass lines. If you give me some tracks or artists you'd like me to listen to with the ES-P1s I'd be happy to give them a whirl and get back to you on how they perform.


----------



## o0genesis0o

captione said:


> I'm using these particular drivers on my own MX500 Build. It's basically the 300ohm version of the popular 120/130LCP. Stock form, it's a warm non-fatiguing listen but with some easy tuning you can increase the pinna gain abit and turn it into something of a better reference pair, although treble might be lacking to some.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Picture of the build
> ...



Your buds have very elegant and harmonious color scheme. Seems like a killer piece of head-fi gear.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 13, 2022)

dinodogJR said:


> FF3 will be on my radar in for its upgrade version. Just hope it won't taking many years as earbuds development is slower than IEM market today.
> I had checked the Korea Ucotech ES-PS1. The whole earbuds engineering is an eye-opening dark science to me.
> i haven't came across this model during my research.
> I am hesistate to pay over mid-budget price point for the Listening joy.
> ...





dinodogJR said:


> Waoh... There would be rounds of rounds of applause i could feel if you are making a product review over the ES-PS1. Since morning, I had search hi & lo over Asia forum. This is a quiet flagship out of radar. Either there's no one dare to touch with its hefty price as Earphones. Or just everyone had been sucked into IEM Flagship price is more reasonable craze of spending.
> 
> This statement from Headfonics had boosted my excitement.
> "Yep, it sounds even more forward than my Zen 2.0 and the older Yuin PK series. Don’t get me wrong, Yuin was a monster back then with the PK1, but with the most respect, my PK1 sounds like its broken compared to the ES-P1."
> ...


Just know that there are a fair number of us flathead fiends didn't like the *Ucotech ES-P1 *for various reasons... a heavy price tag being one of them. Same goes with the *Astrotec Lyra* series. Their are too many other worthy considerations that are very well liked and regarded that you probably should consider first than either of these outliers. But what it comes down to is different tastes... different strokes for different folks.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16637656
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-17100770
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16642596

That said the* ES-P1* are very well built and aesthetically quite pleasing to the eyes! Total 'eye candy" for sure!

WoodyLuvr's All-Time Top Twenty Flathead Earbuds by Aesthetics Only


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 13, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Just know that there are a fair number of us flathead fiends didn't like the *Ucotech ES-P1 *for various reasons... a heavy price tag being one of them. Same goes with the *Astrotec Lyra* series. Their are too many other worthy considerations that are very well liked and regarded that you probably should consider first than either of these outliers. But what it comes down to is different tastes... different strokes for different folks.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16637656
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-17100770
> ...



As with anything anything in a subjective hobby one's own experience is always most important. I also agree that seeking more affordable solutions may be best for someone who is potentially unsure of what they're looking for. However, I have definitely run across more owners/listeners who thoroughly enjoyed the ES-P1s than not and saying there are a "fair number" that don't like them for various reasons then linking to a single post about you and a friend seems like overstating the issue.

That's not to say you're wrong, though. No pair of buds out there is capable of universal popularity and no pair is perfect. When I was researching the ES-P1s I had a hard time finding a "fair number" of people who had heard them on the entire internet. Luckily enough for me I did find a little clique (4 owners before me lol so literally little) of ES-P1 converts right here in Souther California, one of whom brought them to my attention in the first place.

Since becoming more than a lurker on head-fi I have come across 3 other owners who love them as well. I have also let quite a few people try them and have gotten mostly very positive reviews back and created a couple customers for Ucotech in the process. My point being that they are costly and info about them is decidedly sparse so they are, I suppose, a financial and informational outlier. However, I wouldn't call them an outlier as if they are a highly divisive pair of earbuds that's not well liked by the majority of people who try them. I don't know if that's how you meant that, but it seemed like it could be taken that way or that you might be implying that so I felt that I should point out that that runs counter to my experience.

In the same post where you mention you and your friend not liking the ES-P1s you mention the Audio Technica CM2000Ti "running rings" around them. If you look at the available reviews on the CM2000Tis you find quite a few people that would likely not agree with that perspective. I myself tried the CM2000Tis because I'm too curious for the health of my wallet and against the advice of a couple people and I fall into the category who would say that the ATs are sibilant and harsh with no low end to speak of. This again doesn't mean that you're wrong, just that with any earbud it's not difficult to find folks on both sides.

So what's the point? The point is that in a subjective hobby it's important to keep hyperbole out of it as much as we can for the sake of providing useful, accurate information. I thank you for providing the other side of the coin, so to speak, as a check against a fervent reaction to my statements about the ES-P1s. I did try my best in my initial post and in a follow up post to include comments about how subjective things are and I intentionally tried to not overstate my opinions. However, in using the term a "fair number" to describe those who dislike the ES-P1s and then calling them outliers it seemed to swing the pendulum the other way into hyperbole for the opposite view. I posted this because I fear that between the two of us we may have given the poster who asked about them a backdrop of extremes that he'll find confusing when it doesn't need to be that way so I am attempting to reframe that information.

The ES-P1s are expensive and there isn't a whole lot of information or opinions about them out there so it may in fact be better for anyone looking for a "one and only" pair of earbuds who is unsure about their preferences to look to more moderately priced eabuds for which there is a larger pool of opinions available. This is especially true if the buyer is in a financial position where purchasing a pair of earbuds this expensive would be difficult to recover from if the purchase didn't end up working out or being satisfying. It's always important to consider not making a purchase if the risk posed by it not working out is too great and it's good to be reminded of that from time to time.

I didn't post this to be an advocacy of a decision for or against these particular earbuds and I hope I didn't ruffle too many feathers in posting this. I also apologize for the essay, but I think on the whole this was constructive and needed saying. Plus, all this writing may have tired me out enough for me to catch a couple hours of sleep before I have to get back at it.

P.S. I have been listening to several albums by a prog rock group called Flying Colors rotating between the FF3s, the ES-P1s, and the RW3000s to answer a question posed by the earbud aficionado who helped guide me back to earbuds and I realized that between me and @samandhi all three of these were recommended to the poster I was replying to regarding the ES-P1s and I have to say that it's hard to see someone not enjoying any of these three earbuds given his musical preferences. They are all quite impressive and they're all very good for a pretty wide range a music as well. With the options available today it's a great time to be a "flathead fiend" as @WoodyLuvr put it. An embarrassment of riches to be sure...

P.P.S As I concluded that my playlist ended and 99 Problems by Jay-Z came on. If you guys could only have seen me start rappin'...you all never would have been able to take me seriously again lol! 😂 Let's just hope Tupac's ultimate dis track Hit Em Up isn't next!


----------



## o0genesis0o

The discussion with @Ronion previously about drilling open the faux vents on MX500 shells got me curious, so I took out my drill and continue modding my perfectly good sounding GEM 001 buds. Results?





I can hear extra lower midrange and bass, meaning there is more "ummm" sound (I assume around 250-500Hz) and a bit more "boom boom" (I assume around 125Hz). However, the light touch and extreme airiness of the 64 ohm TI composite drivers are not as prominent anymore. My measurements seem to confirm my hearing, but the difference seems too small for my rig to pickup reliably. 

There you go folks. Sacrifice for science


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> The discussion with @Ronion previously about drilling open the faux vents on MX500 shells got me curious, so I took out my drill and continue modding my perfectly good sounding GEM 001 buds. Results?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I feel for you brother. Thankfully all you need is a few minutes and a new shell and the GEM 001 will be reborn! You're like some kinda necromancer or Dr. Frankenstein! 😎


----------



## drewbadour (Sep 13, 2022)

I reached out to AVCCK for more info on the driver used in the LongYao YinMan and they ended up asking the manufacturer who let them know that it is a custom DD that was designed specifically for the LongYao Yinman and is not available elsewhere - whatever that means:

Regarding the exact specifications:
”单元直径15.4mm,阻抗600欧，频响范围：20-35000赫兹，灵敏度87“
15.4mm diameter DD, 600ohm, 20-35000hz range, and 87db/mW sensitivity.
Whereas I believe the 600 beryllium driver that folks suspected was used in this bud is 100db/mW sensitivity and 20-20000hz.

So safe to say, the driver is _not_ the 600 beryllium but should be something else, truly custom or not.

The lower sensitivity does confirm what @WoodyLuvr has said about them, that they aren't incredibly hard to drive to listenable volume but need a lot of power to sound as good as they can.


----------



## FranQL

drewbadour said:


> I reached out to AVCCK for more info on the driver used in the LongYao YinMan and they ended up asking the manufacturer who let them know that it is a custom DD that was designed specifically for the LongYao Yinman and is not available elsewhere:
> 
> Regarding the exact specifications:
> ”单元直径15.4mm,阻抗600欧，频响范围：20-35000赫兹，灵敏度87“
> ...



the custom super mega driver for TO600 turned out to be a 500 Ohm driver with a resistor.... I just leave the data


----------



## o0genesis0o (Sep 13, 2022)

I'm back with a Frankenstein build: Drivers from Nicehck YD30 jammed into a bell-shaped shell and tuned with both white horse shoe foams and filters.

On the plus side, I can say with confidence that the buds sound better than the stock tuning from Nicehck. The minus side is that it still does not sound very impressive. Think of it as something like Moondrop Aria. Alright, adequate. Some would even say very good. But it's just not very nice or special.

Graphs (Aligned at 1k, 2 octave)




Some observations about tuning:

The key ideas from tuning back volume of IEMs seem to apply here.
Without horse shoes, you lose deep bass.
With too much horse shoes, you lose resolution and airiness, even though the FR does not seem to change much.
The total amount of venting at the back seems to control the contrast between lower midrange and upper midrange. The less venting, the smoother the transition from lower to upper midrange is, but the amount of bass reduces.
I don't think it is possible to get more resolution out of a meh driver.


----------



## drewbadour

FranQL said:


> the custom super mega driver for TO600 turned out to be a 500 Ohm driver with a resistor.... I just leave the data


Ooh that's interesting! So it's possible that this LongYao YinMan is the something similar?  
Waiting for the day that someone with dextrous hands opens up their unit to see what magic is inside haha.


----------



## samandhi (Sep 13, 2022)

drewbadour said:


> I reached out to AVCCK for more info on the driver used in the LongYao YinMan and they ended up asking the manufacturer who let them know that it is a custom DD that was designed specifically for the LongYao Yinman and is not available elsewhere:
> 
> Regarding the exact specifications:
> ”单元直径15.4mm,阻抗600欧，频响范围：20-35000赫兹，灵敏度87“
> ...


That is great to know. Thanks for reaching out to them... 

WOW! 87dB/mW? That is even lower than was thought to be and would also explain why just 1W makes that much of a difference in sound. Even with 2W (the most I can achieve currently), it is not enough to drive them properly (according to the science).

I am not too sure that the number they gave you is correct though, and I suspect it is indeed closer to what @WoodyLuvr predicts. One reason I think that is because I can drive them to higher than 110dBSPL with my lil' 2W amplifier (which goes against what the math says for them). But I also know these numbers are all not necessarily real world, but more of an "on paper" sort of thing, and could be totally off point at any time.

To drive them to 110dBSPL you would need (a whopping):


200mW
10.95Vrms
18.3mA
My DX300 Amp12 is currently capable of @600ohms:


114.8mW
8.3Vrms
13.83mA


----------



## o0genesis0o

FranQL said:


> the custom super mega driver for TO600 turned out to be a 500 Ohm driver with a resistor.... I just leave the data


Hi, what is the purpose of adding a resistor?


----------



## samandhi (Sep 13, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Hi, what is the purpose of adding a resistor?


Deception... 

In the loudspeaker world they do it to match a set of speakers that are not of an impedance that the amplifier requires. Eg... 4 ohm speakers that you want to use on an amp that requires 8 ohms speakers.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Hi, what is the purpose of adding a resistor?


High impedance versions, compared to their counterparts, use thinner wires in the voice coil, which means more turns since you can pack more in a smaller space. In addition, you still get a lower moving mass which creates a stronger electromagnetic field. But, of course, this means that to produce motion in the voice coil's wire, you will need more power.

However, the headphones can deliver higher audio levels since their stronger field reduces distortion, ensuring you can better pick up different frequencies.

Edit: Hence the word deception in my first post... LOL


----------



## dinodogJR (Sep 13, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I
> 
> 
> Thanks for the kind words! I'm not trying to be an advertiser for Ucotech and I think the guys here that have seen my comments on other earbuds will tell you that I try to be honest when I don't like something and I always try to explain why I feel the way I do, good or bad, about a particular pair of earbuds. I genuinely hate it when people overhype products and make unrealistic or hyperbolic claims about them. So with that in mind, I think what I said about the ES-P1s was accurate and it comes off sounding like a really good review for them because, IMO, they earn the praise.
> ...


That's some situation i came across with Overhyped earphones also from the past. Such as Ve Monk Plus. Lucky it was a low price earphone. I was strictly believing not jumped into the High Premium Price earphones only can deliver superior sound. Unless the company could explains the construction & engineering in detailed with nice 3D graphics.(haha... i am sold to those micro designs & components.) Sometimes those fancy cool tech wordings would brainwash non-technical user like me.

I just looked into your Gear List. There are a few earphones were on my recent search too.
Your top favourite precious earphones would be started in the list til the last named. FF3 seems not to miss out throughout the long list.
Today i just put on my antique Grado SR60 after few years of hiatus on my dad's table. The Blessing starts counting once i plugged in~.... it sounds so amazing in everything i wanted from my next earphones. And so relieve by its lightweight headband. Actually Yuin PK 2 after amped is almost getting to this timbre of Grado SR60. It won't be exactly the same bass boost and expansion but i can accept the total performance.
My initial expectation from FF 3 would be outshined my PK 2 with the outcome even closer to Grado S60 especially the soundstage & impact in bass/drums.

Here's a couple of tracks you can find in youtube. I attached with the details i will pay attention to when auditioning them.
Take your time as i actually no clues what kind of outcome would result from ES-P1.

(Auditioned with Yuin PK2 + Sony Walkman A55 as DAC)
Twilight Singers - Teenage Wristband.
The opening guitar humming is at high pitch and almost buzzing to my hearing. The 0:32, the vocals kicks in with every rock instruments is making the whole song into a mess. The cymbals just uncontrollable weak in the background.


Antony & the Johnsons - Bird Gerhl
For the dynamic vocals and quick changing vocal melodies. And whether the soundstage can going broader.


Nine inch Nails - Physical
Heavy drums & Trent's singing style with lotsa low whispering and shaking voice. And the chorus part with 'machine gun' chaotic drums loop.


Massive Attack - Unfinished Sympathy
This is my kind of female "audiophile" vocals with complex electronica construction. Those bell ring.


Naul - Comforter (Korean Soul music) I feel this song is going to be absolute gorgeous in ES-PS1 from Korea too.
My usual last audition song for the final call to purchase of my new earphones in recent years.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

dinodogJR said:


> That's some situation i came across with Overhyped earphones also from the past. Such as Ve Monk Plus. Lucky it was a low price earphone. I was strictly believing not jumped into the High Premium Price earphones only can deliver superior sound. Unless the company could explains the construction & engineering in detailed with nice 3D graphics.(haha... i am sold to those micro designs & components.) Sometimes those fancy cool tech wordings would brainwash non-technical user like me.
> 
> I just looked into your Gear List. There are a few earphones were on my recent search too.
> Your top favourite precious earphones would be started in the list til the last named. FF3 seems not to miss out throughout the long list.
> ...




I will check these out if I get a decent break while I'm at the studio and if not then once I get home and I'll let you know.

I have never heard the Grado SR60, but I have heard a few other pairs namely the SR80e, SR325x , the GS3000x, and the RS2 (not sure what series). Getting the sound of Grados in earbuds is going to be difficult as they are quite unique in their "house sound" tuning profile. However, I actually think the Yincrow RW-3000 would be very much up your alley if you're after something similar to the Grado sound, though I think the RW-3000s actually have better bass than the Grados I have heard, believe it or not.


----------



## dinodogJR

WoodyLuvr said:


> Just know that there are a fair number of us flathead fiends didn't like the *Ucotech ES-P1 *for various reasons... a heavy price tag being one of them. Same goes with the *Astrotec Lyra* series. Their are too many other worthy considerations that are very well liked and regarded that you probably should consider first than either of these outliers. But what it comes down to is different tastes... different strokes for different folks.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16637656
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-17100770
> ...


Thanks for the input... The All time TOP Twenty listing is something i am looking for from anyone who had went through by serious listening from time to time. 
Not everyone dare to speak out their mind sometimes to avoid unnecessary debate. We are adult and understand this sort of conflicts in each others. We all are here to assist each others to get what they want and reduce the spending with necessary cost of "damage".  
Honestly i really hope i can afford just one of those Premium Eye candy design. Still I demand functionality over Looks as my main priority. 
Since then i already not into Headphone territory for many years with its comfortability drawbacks.
Oh no.. Yincrow RW2000 & ToneKing Viridis were on my list. This makes me rethink of Yincrow Calf at even low price.
I had spending days to search theirs review in China forum. I don't know where to look at as their discussion are mostly in "short sentence" and no comparison to what they had own.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I will check these out if I get a decent break while I'm at the studio and if not then once I get home and I'll let you know.
> 
> I have never heard the Grado SR60, but I have heard a few other pairs namely the SR80e, SR325x , the GS3000x, and the RS2 (not sure what series). Getting the sound of Grados in earbuds is going to be difficult as they are quite unique in their "house sound" tuning profile. However, I actually think the Yincrow RW-3000 would be very much up your alley if you're after something similar to the Grado sound, though I think the RW-3000s actually have better bass than the Grados I have heard, believe it or not.


I concur with this assessment. (keep in mind I am going from memory here, as I haven't heard the Grado sound for some time but) the RW3000 do indeed sound the most like Grados "house" sound IIRC, of the ones recommended.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> I concur with this assessment. (keep in mind I am going from memory here, as I haven't heard the Grado sound for some time but) the RW3000 do indeed sound the most like Grados "house" sound IIRC, of the ones recommended.



Thanks for the backup! I'd even go a step further an say that of all the earbuds I have listened to the RW-3000s sound most like Grado's house tuning with a solid bass section.

The Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis are perhaps even closer overall, but with their fast and somewhat light bass they don't have the powerful low end our poster was looking for.


----------



## jeejack

Pink dot is a very impressed driver with lots of potential


----------



## thedjkhalid (Sep 13, 2022)

Which earbuds have the best comfort (of course, comfort is subjective) that are under the 15.4mm size?  And that also sound good, ofc.  

I have had the mx500 shell and they hurt my ears pretty quickly, and I recently got the FF3's and they are uncomfortable as well.
The most comfortable ones I have owned have been the Shozy Cygnus (PK style shell), apple earpods, and the k's earphone bell lbbs.  The cygnus were perfect for me, never felt like I had them on.  The bell lbbs fits pretty comfortably as well, but not as well as the cygnus, but not much worse.  And earpods are a decent fit/comfort.

The reason I moved to earbuds was because iems have never fit well for me (having tried many different tips and iems) and kind of made my head feel like it was being pressurized?


----------



## samandhi

thedjkhalid said:


> Which earbuds have the best comfort (of course, comfort is subjective) that are under the 15.4mm size?  And that also sound good, ofc.
> 
> I have had the mx500 shell and they hurt my ears pretty quickly, and I recently got the FF3's and they are uncomfortable as well.
> The most comfortable ones I have owned have been the Shozy Cygnus (PK style shell), apple earpods, and the k's earphone bell lbbs.  The cygnus were perfect for me, never felt like I had them on.  The bell lbbs fits pretty comfortably as well, but not as well as the cygnus, but not much worse.  And earpods are a decent fit/comfort.
> ...


If you can still get them, the Smabat M2s Pro with the 32bio driver are listed on their website as "kids" size buds. They are indeed much smaller than typical buds sizes. They sound good as well.


----------



## thedjkhalid

samandhi said:


> If you can still get them, the Smabat M2s Pro with the 32bio driver are listed on their website as "kids" size buds. They are indeed much smaller than typical buds sizes. They sound good as well.


I have heard about the M2s Pro being good and someone said the fit was also better than the typical mx500s.  Only thing worrying me is that the driver size is still the same 15.4mm so I thought it would be still uncomfortable to me as are the mx500s.  But it isn't too expensive, so it is worth a try.  

What is it specifically about the 32bio driver (just preference)?  I have seen that most people say good things about the 40ti driver.  I personally like more neutral sounding buds, and the 40ti is said to be neutral bass boosted (which I would not mind).


----------



## syazwaned

thedjkhalid said:


> I have heard about the M2s Pro being good and someone said the fit was also better than the typical mx500s.  Only thing worrying me is that the driver size is still the same 15.4mm so I thought it would be still uncomfortable to me as are the mx500s.  But it isn't too expensive, so it is worth a try.
> 
> What is it specifically about the 32bio driver (just preference)?  I have seen that most people say good things about the 40ti driver.  I personally like more neutral sounding buds, and the 40ti is said to be neutral bass boosted (which I would not mind).


Yinman bro


----------



## thedjkhalid (Sep 13, 2022)

syazwaned said:


> Yinman bro


yinman 2.0 600ohms?

the source i use is a qudelix 5k... can it power it well enough?

also is there a sound difference between the colors?  i see a wood color and a grayish/black color option*

*apparently their pictures and options are confusing and not updated, they are all wired connections and no mmcx and no wood options, just gray and black plastic? shells


----------



## syazwaned

thedjkhalid said:


> yinman 2.0 600ohms?
> 
> the source i use is a qudelix 5k... can it power it well enough?
> 
> also is there a sound difference between the colors?  i see a wood color and a grayish/black color option




Yinman have a 150 ohms version, more suitable for the 5K, @WoodyLuvr said that it share the same tonality. About the color and sound would refer to ours Earbuds Maestro mr Woodyluvr


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> I'm back with a Frankenstein build: Drivers from Nicehck YD30 jammed into a bell-shaped shell and tuned with both white horse shoe foams and filters.
> 
> On the plus side, I can say with confidence that the buds sound better than the stock tuning from Nicehck. The minus side is that it still does not sound very impressive. Think of it as something like Moondrop Aria. Alright, adequate. Some would even say very good. But it's just not very nice or special.
> 
> ...


Now your getting started!  It’s very cool to see this in a different shell and rig.  You definitely can’t get good resolution out of a meh driver.  It doesn’t look like, but I don’t know with your rig: did you do this without foams?  The differences can be magnified by foams.  It’s really a black art.  You do have a good foundation now and for some reason I feel a strange sense of pride.  Anyway, congratulations on the start of a journey.  I’d suggest practicing of cheap drivers, but buy some of the 500 Ohm and possibly the 600 Ohm (I’ll let you know what I think but is sounds like they are probably awesome as well) when you try more variations of tuning.

Oh, I almost forgot: I haven’t gotten the same results you got with opening the faux port, but I did get similar results as you got with the red dot drivers and slightly larger holes.  Read up on tuning ported loudspeakers.  The principle is the same.  It’s a bit more complex in a way, but it is what you are doing.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> High impedance versions, compared to their counterparts, use thinner wires in the voice coil, which means more turns since you can pack more in a smaller space. In addition, you still get a lower moving mass which creates a stronger electromagnetic field. But, of course, this means that to produce motion in the voice coil's wire, you will need more power.
> 
> However, the headphones can deliver higher audio levels since their stronger field reduces distortion, ensuring you can better pick up different frequencies.
> 
> Edit: Hence the word deception in my first post... LOL


there’s also this, but my experimental data says it’s not an issue at all with several earbud drivers.
http://www.tonestack.net/articles/headphones/headphone-amplifier-output-impedance.html


----------



## thedjkhalid

syazwaned said:


> Yinman have a 150 ohms version, more suitable for the 5K, @WoodyLuvr said that it share the same tonality. About the color and sound would refer to ours Earbuds Maestro mr Woodyluvr


thank you for the suggestion, will do more research on it!


----------



## jogawag (Sep 14, 2022)

thedjkhalid said:


> Which earbuds have the best comfort (of course, comfort is subjective) that are under the 15.4mm size?  And that also sound good, ofc.
> 
> I have had the mx500 shell and they hurt my ears pretty quickly, and I recently got the FF3's and they are uncomfortable as well.
> The most comfortable ones I have owned have been the Shozy Cygnus (PK style shell), apple earpods, and the k's earphone bell lbbs.  The cygnus were perfect for me, never felt like I had them on.  The bell lbbs fits pretty comfortably as well, but not as well as the cygnus, but not much worse.  And earpods are a decent fit/comfort.
> ...


I recommend the NICEHCK B40 (about $10), which has a PK-style shell (very slightly larger) and a driver size of 14.8 mm.

There is a successor to this, the NICEHCK B70, but it is about three times the price and doesn't perform as well as it deserves. (It have a little more treble extension and smoother cables.)

By the way, you said that your Shozy Cygnus cable broke, but if there is an earphone shop in your country that can convert the unit to be MMCX compatible, you can ask the shop to do that and then buy and use an MMCX cable and you won't have to worry about the cable breaking.


----------



## Ronion

If the Harman headphone curve met the Harman room curve and had an earbud baby, it would probably look like this itineration of the 500 Be:


----------



## thedjkhalid

jogawag said:


> I recommend the NICEHCK B40 (about $10), which has a PK-style shell (very slightly larger) and a driver size of 14.8 mm.
> 
> There is a successor to this, the NICEHCK B70, but it is about three times the price and doesn't perform as well as it deserves. (A little more treble extension and smoother cables.)
> 
> By the way, you said that your Shozy Cygnus cable broke, but if there is an earphone shop in your country that can convert the unit to be MMCX compatible, you can ask the shop to do that and then buy and use an MMCX cable and you won't have to worry about the cable breaking.


thank you for the advice!  I will see if there is such a shop nearby me.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> It doesn’t look like, but I don’t know with your rig: did you do this without foams? The differences can be magnified by foams. It’s really a black art. You do have a good foundation now and for some reason I feel a strange sense of pride.


I always use standard full foam, The "rig" is IEC711 coupler with the buds resting lightly on the opening of the artificial ear canals. If I hold it not too tight, not too loose, I can have quite consistent measurements that seem to reflect what I hear (meaning the graph matches the one of an IEM with similar sound). If I press the buds hard against the coupler, my measurements look exactly like Smabat's measurements, so I imagine that many Chi-Fi manufacturers actually use blue tack to attach their buds to the coupler for measurement. The ear gain looks the same, all lower frequencies are ridiculously loud. 

Anyhow, I don't rely on the coupler to tune because I don't think this measurement approach is reliable enough. So, I'm doing something like what 64 Audio's boss describe: use ears to listen, and use coupler to record the "golden curve" for record keeping and replication.

Thanks for the encouragement. It feels like I have a cool Internet uncle somewhere (Or big bro? )




Ronion said:


> Read up on tuning ported loudspeakers. The principle is the same. It’s a bit more complex in a way, but it is what you are doing.


Good idea. Those are the keywords I have been looking for.




Ronion said:


> I haven’t gotten the same results you got with opening the faux port, but I did get similar results as you got with the red dot drivers and slightly larger holes.


The faux port has more impact on the 64 ohm composite Ti drivers than what I imagined. The buds sound very bad with one extra hole, but sound charming in its own way with two holes. Anyhow, I wouldn't rely on this mod for tuning. 


I'm daily driving the new Frankenstein buds for work today. Will report the impressions and formulas for others to make one later.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> I always use standard full foam, The "rig" is IEC711 coupler with the buds resting lightly on the opening of the artificial ear canals. If I hold it not too tight, not too loose, I can have quite consistent measurements that seem to reflect what I hear (meaning the graph matches the one of an IEM with similar sound). If I press the buds hard against the coupler, my measurements look exactly like Smabat's measurements, so I imagine that many Chi-Fi manufacturers actually use blue tack to attach their buds to the coupler for measurement. The ear gain looks the same, all lower frequencies are ridiculously loud.
> 
> Anyhow, I don't rely on the coupler to tune because I don't think this measurement approach is reliable enough. So, I'm doing something like what 64 Audio's boss describe: use ears to listen, and use coupler to record the "golden curve" for record keeping and replication.
> 
> ...


Brother/friend/uncle… I’ll respond to any of those!  Feeling is mutual.

it’s interesting that your measurements look so much like SMABAT’s.  I bet you are exactly right.  There was a video of them using a regular  full head style couple and they were showing fairly normal measurements….  But then the graphs they show look nothing like anything “normal” 😆 Hard to say why that is, but I’m absolutely betting you are correct.

on another interesting note.  Dan Clark made another top tier type headphone.  It has two graph features that are missing from the Harman that we have discussed: The 9kHz dip, and the bump in the bass….  If I had a magic 8 Ball, all signs would point to yes.


https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/dan-clark-expanse-headphone-review.37332/


----------



## samandhi

thedjkhalid said:


> I have heard about the M2s Pro being good and someone said the fit was also better than the typical mx500s.  Only thing worrying me is that the driver size is still the same 15.4mm so I thought it would be still uncomfortable to me as are the mx500s.  But it isn't too expensive, so it is worth a try.
> 
> What is it specifically about the 32bio driver (just preference)?  I have seen that most people say good things about the 40ti driver.  I personally like more neutral sounding buds, and the 40ti is said to be neutral bass boosted (which I would not mind).


Well, the Stock driver in the M2s Pro is standard size, but the 32 bio modular driver that you can switch out to is much smaller than standard bud sizes. It is 14.2mm compared to the 15.4mm standard size.


----------



## qua2k

3 more diy pairs pending... just the 3......


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> Brother/friend/uncle… I’ll respond to any of those!  Feeling is mutual.
> 
> it’s interesting that your measurements look so much like SMABAT’s.  I bet you are exactly right.  There was a video of them using a regular  full head style couple and they were showing fairly normal measurements….  But then the graphs they show look nothing like anything “normal” 😆 Hard to say why that is, but I’m absolutely betting you are correct.
> 
> ...



I already have a spot reserved to listen to the Expanse at CanJam SoCal!


----------



## dinodogJR

samandhi said:


> I concur with this assessment. (keep in mind I am going from memory here, as I haven't heard the Grado sound for some time but) the RW3000 do indeed sound the most like Grados "house" sound IIRC, of the ones recommended.





JAnonymous5150 said:


> I will check these out if I get a decent break while I'm at the studio and if not then once I get home and I'll let you know.
> 
> I have never heard the Grado SR60, but I have heard a few other pairs namely the SR80e, SR325x , the GS3000x, and the RS2 (not sure what series). Getting the sound of Grados in earbuds is going to be difficult as they are quite unique in their "house sound" tuning profile. However, I actually think the Yincrow RW-3000 would be very much up your alley if you're after something similar to the Grado sound, though I think the RW-3000s actually have better bass than the Grados I have heard, believe it or not.


Back in those days, I had quick auditioned with SR80, SR325 & GS1000(Only for half of the song in a Hi-fi showroom.. Can't really concentrate cause there's others waited to audition).
SR80 have more impactful bass.
SR325 is too bright & sharpening in Mids. Perhaps it was the donut foam pads. I couldn't bear with the overall over-shouting sound as i remember. Else i was planned to upgrade into it.
It seems that all my listening habit are surrounding with "Bright & Forward" listening gear all the time.

Do you have any popular earphone or headphone can consider as Laid back sound signature?
Maybe i had came across in the past.
As i remember i very much into AKG 701 sound signature more over than Senn HD600, HD650 and HD800 (This doesn't get me Wow factor with its high price tag.)
HD600 would be my favo amongst the three with its brighter mids. HD650 is a hollow sound to me and i am not a heavy orchestral person.

As I read that Fiio FF3 can consider as *Laid back* sound signature from a review. How the Drums sound performance is interesting in FF3. Do you guys feels it is so realistic or just impactful than most premium earphones that couldn't achieve?

_"Are you an earbuds lover but also want them to have a bass close to an in-ears performance? FF3 might be for you. The bass is simply one of, if not, the best in their price range, bested only by their bigger brother, the EM5. The FF3 is also suited for those who are treble sensitive as they have a slightly dark and warm sound that is fatigue free. Detail freaks out there might find the FF3 a little lacking in this area as they are more to an laid-back signature. The FF3 robustness is also suited for everyday carry earbuds and to anywhere as well."_

https://audiomonsta.com/fiio-ff3-beats-like-a-drum/


----------



## o0genesis0o

dinodogJR said:


> How the Drums sound performance is interesting in FF3. Do you guys feels it is so realistic or just impactful than most premium earphones that couldn't achieve?



FF3’s rendition of drums and low-pitch instruments is among the best that I have ever heard in head-fi gear, and yes I’m counting headphones as well. IMHO, Final D8000, Hifiman Arya, and Sony IER Z1r are something that do bass better than FF3. It’s not just about the loudness of the bass, but how tight but tactile and textured the bass is. 

I do wish FF3 has a bit more energy in the air frequencies though. If Fiio can do something about it with FF5, that bud would be the gold standard of head-fi gear (to me, of course).


----------



## dinodogJR

thedjkhalid said:


> Which earbuds have the best comfort (of course, comfort is subjective) that are under the 15.4mm size?  And that also sound good, ofc.
> 
> I have had the mx500 shell and they hurt my ears pretty quickly, and I recently got the FF3's and they are uncomfortable as well.
> The most comfortable ones I have owned have been the Shozy Cygnus (PK style shell), apple earpods, and the k's earphone bell lbbs.  The cygnus were perfect for me, never felt like I had them on.  The bell lbbs fits pretty comfortably as well, but not as well as the cygnus, but not much worse.  And earpods are a decent fit/comfort.
> ...


Haha.. The most torturing IEM i ever had is UE TripleFi 10. i had spent enough eartips and decades of effort to fit-in. It was my first expensive In-Ear spent and i never wanted to step in IEM anymore. But the detail in there i wish i could have them in Earphone today. That's the reason i sign in here to discover the possibilities.
Anyway, i had incidently killed TripleFi 10 only recently when tried to plug out the pins. 
And i read MMCX also got issue..? It does looks like a better connector design to me instead of two tiny steels.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 14, 2022)

dinodogJR said:


> Haha.. The most torturing IEM i ever had is UE TripleFi 10. i had spent enough eartips and decades of effort to fit-in. It was my first expensive In-Ear spent and i never wanted to step in IEM anymore. But the detail in there i wish i could have them in Earphone today. That's the reason i sign in here to discover the possibilities.
> Anyway, i had incidently killed TripleFi 10 only recently when tried to plug out the pins.
> And i read MMCX also got issue..? It does looks like a better connector design to me instead of two tiny steels.



@o0genesis0o nailed the bass on the FF3s with his description above. As for the MMCX connectors they have their own reliability issues one being that they are sometimes very hard to unplug/disconnect causing the connectors to loosen quicker or even pull out of the housing entirely. With any connector type the name of the game is to be gentle as possible and to limit how often you're changing between cables. They are not designed to be plugged and unplugged constantly and they all have fail rates after a certain amount of accumulated force or a certain number of connection-disconnection cycles depending on how they were rated. This is a big reason why you're seeing companies switching to interchangeable tips these days so people can change sources without changing cables.

The issue with connector reliability is actually another reason I have seen cited by some manufacturers of earbuds using fixed rather than replaceable cables. Personally, I think a fixed cable is probably more likely to fail than a properly used replaceable one, but, then again, most of either type of cable will last you a good long time if properly taken care of, IME. That said, I MUCH prefer detachable cables for various reasons including reliability/replaceability.

Edit: P.S. I am still at the studio and haven't gotten home yet to give those tracks a listen, but I haven't forgotten about it!


----------



## dinodogJR

o0genesis0o said:


> FF3’s rendition of drums and low-pitch instruments is among the best that I have ever heard in head-fi gear, and yes I’m counting headphones as well. IMHO, Final D8000, Hifiman Arya, and Sony IER Z1r are something that do bass better than FF3. It’s not just about the loudness of the bass, but how tight but tactile and textured the bass is.
> 
> I do wish FF3 has a bit more energy in the air frequencies though. If Fiio can do something about it with FF5, that bud would be the gold standard of head-fi gear (to me, of course).


You are spot on how i should had describe the Drums sounds is tight but tactile and textures in it.
FF5 seems like going back to Classic Shell. I like this old school design with no complaint in wearing comfortability anymore. And removable cable...wooo~
* 
FF5, expected to be available in September*
_The outer shell is still made of metal while following the same newest design language as FiiO's other new products. Moreover, it is FiiO's first flat-head earbud that comes with an MMCX detachable-cable design._
_Both the two earbud designs are innovative. This is our attitude towards flat-head earbuds. If we continue to use the classic designs and molds of our previous models, it will not make much sense to FiiO, and I think it will not help consumers either. We make flat-head earbuds for brand value over commercial value. In fact, we do not expect a big sale, but to provide those who support us all the way and prefer flat-head earbuds more choices if our time and resources permit._


----------



## JAnonymous5150

dinodogJR said:


> _make flat-head earbuds for brand value over commercial value. In fact, we do not expect a big sale, but to provide those who support us all the way and prefer flat-head earbuds more choices if our time and resources permit._



This right here is exactly why you gotta love Fiio. My understanding is that even with how successful the FF3 has been (their most successful bud/flathead by sales volume) they still aren't making much money on it when the R&D costs are factored in, but they did it anyways knowing that it would be this way. Before the FF3's release the CEO said that the FF series earbuds were their way of thanking a supportive audiophile community and that he is a big fan of flatheads/earbuds himself so it's basically his pet project.


----------



## dinodogJR

JAnonymous5150 said:


> @o0genesis0o nailed the bass on the FF3s with his description above. As for the MMCX connectors they have their own reliability issues one being that they are sometimes very hard to unplug/disconnect causing the connectors to loosen quicker or even pull out of the housing entirely. With any connectory type the name of the game is to be gentle as possible and to limit how often you're chaning between cables. They are not deaigned to be plugged and unplugged constantly and they all have fail rates after a certain amount of accumulated force or a certain number of connection-disconnection cycles depending on how they were rated. This is a big reason why you're seeing companies switching to interchangeable tips these days so people can change sources without changing cables.
> 
> The issue with connector reliability is actually another reason I have seen used for some manufacturers of earbuds using fixed rather than replaceable cables. Personally, I think a fixed cable is probably more likely to fail than a properly used replaceable one, but, then again, most of either type of cable will last you a good long time if properly taken care of, IME. That said, I MUCH prefer detachable cables for various reasons including reliability/replaceability.
> 
> Edit: P.S. I am still at the studio and haven't gotten home yet to give those tracks a listen, but I haven't forgotten about it!


One thing is i would getting a TWS Bluetooth for these earbuds in future. So, the connector pins are important i can bring them into Wireless if i want to experiment. 
Yeah, Low cost premium earbuds+Bluetooth > Premium TWS. 
Days ago, I had listened to B&O EQ. Amazed by how TWS can sounds great just the price tag is a big No No. I would rather collect an Eye-Candy Premium earphones with the same cash. Nobody really cares bout TWS's value after one year. 
p/s: No worries about the auditioning. You can do it over weekend. No rushy man~. As i stay here you guys keep coming up with interesting knowledges and got my brain nucleus exploded even more.


----------



## DenverW (Sep 14, 2022)

So I haven't owned a pair of earbuds since high school, and I won't mention how long that's been.  I was intrigued by a couple reviews of the FF3 and wanted to try them, so picked up a pair which arrived yesterday.  I will say, I'm impressed with what I'm hearing so far, using only the donut style covers, listening off a fiio x7m2.

Some of the positives:

Great impact - as mentioned earlier, drums sound powerful and hard hitting.  Great "thump" factor.
Soundstage - I was listening to some classical, and a singer was responding from far stage right.  It made me look to find him.
Comfort - one reason I wanted to try an earbud is that my ears begin to hurt with larger iems after a bit.  I'm a big fan of the Monarch mk2,
                 but it begins to hurt my ear after an hour.  No discomfort, and no issues with these slipping out of my ears.


I'll say that at a higher volume level the treble did get a bit hot for me on some tracks, which I didn't expect based on the previous reviews I'd read.  I'll also say that the mid range tonality is good, but a step down from some of my over ear favorites.  But hey, this is a great piece of gear for around $100.


----------



## samandhi

dinodogJR said:


> Do you have any popular earphone or headphone can consider as Laid back sound signature?


If you want big time sound for little money (comparatively) the Focal Elegia are selling for $399 (were $1k)... I recently aquired a set and they are fantastic. They are closed back, but are VERY close to sounding like open backs (amazing technology inside IMO). 



JAnonymous5150 said:


> @o0genesis0o nailed the bass on the FF3s with his description above. As for the MMCX connectors they have their own reliability issues one being that they are sometimes very hard to unplug/disconnect causing the connectors to loosen quicker or even pull out of the housing entirely. With any connectory type the name of the game is to be gentle as possible and to limit how often you're chaning between cables. They are not deaigned to be plugged and unplugged constantly and they all have fail rates after a certain amount of accumulated force or a certain number of connection-disconnection cycles depending on how they were rated. This is a big reason why you're seeing companies switching to interchangeable tips these days so people can change sources without changing cables.
> 
> The issue with connector reliability is actually another reason I have seen used for some manufacturers of earbuds using fixed rather than replaceable cables. Personally, I think a fixed cable is probably more likely to fail than a properly used replaceable one, but, then again, most of either type of cable will last you a good long time if properly taken care of, IME. That said, I MUCH prefer detachable cables for various reasons including reliability/replaceability.
> 
> Edit: P.S. I am still at the studio and haven't gotten home yet to give those tracks a listen, but I haven't forgotten about it!


This is what this tool is made for (about $1.50 or so). The person in this video actually made it look much harder than it is, and with this tool, there isn't a chance of messing up the connectors. 




dinodogJR said:


> One thing is i would getting a TWS Bluetooth for these earbuds in future. So, the connector pins are important i can bring them into Wireless if i want to experiment.
> Yeah, Low cost premium earbuds+Bluetooth > Premium TWS.
> Days ago, I had listened to B&O EQ. Amazed by how TWS can sounds great just the price tag is a big No No. I would rather collect an Eye-Candy Premium earphones with the same cash. Nobody really cares bout TWS's value after one year.
> p/s: No worries about the auditioning. You can do it over weekend. No rushy man~. As i stay here you guys keep coming up with interesting knowledges and got my brain nucleus exploded even more.


I still think the RW3000 might be your best bet for what you are looking for, and they are MMCX so that you can use a BT adaptor with them. Of the ones suggested so far, these are the only ones that have a removeable cable. Speaking of which, and IMHO these have one of the best stock cables in the market. 

But if you want laid back, then the RW3000 aren't really that. They are also not totally in your face but are not laid back at all. I would say these are more on the bright/neutral side of things. But boy do they have good resolution with some bass slam to keep it fun sounding also. Staging isn't quite what the FF3 are though. 

Having said that, and if you have decided that you want a bit laid back but with some deep bass, I might also throw in the Yinman 2.0 600 to the mix. For being warmer and a bit laid back, the clarity is actually surprising. They lack a tad bit of the slam in the bass but make up for it by having very deep and linear bass response (though some slam is there). This is a mid forward set, but in no way is the pina gain boosted (no shrillness at all even at higher volumes), and the staging and technicalities are right up there with the FF3, maybe a bit deeper, where the FF3 are a bit wider. Though dynamics are something to behold on both sets.


----------



## thedjkhalid

samandhi said:


> Well, the Stock driver in the M2s Pro is standard size, but the 32 bio modular driver that you can switch out to is much smaller than standard bud sizes. It is 14.2mm compared to the 15.4mm standard size.


Oh wow!  I will need to check that out soon.


----------



## samandhi

DenverW said:


> So I haven't owned a pair of earbuds since high school, and I won't mention how long that's been.  I was intrigued by a couple reviews of the FF3 and wanted to try them, so picked up a pair which arrived yesterday.  I will say, I'm impressed with what I'm hearing so far, using only the donut style covers, listening off a fiio x7m2.
> 
> Some of the positives:
> 
> ...


Congratz on your new shiny!  I hope you are glad you (re-made) the plunge into buds?!

I think you might be hearing upper mids, rather than hot treble because these are actually a tad bit laid back in the treble area. Try using the bass foams. You would be surprised at how much this is tamed with those ( I was totally shocked by it).


----------



## DenverW

samandhi said:


> Congratz on your new shiny!  I hope you are glad you (re-made) the plunge into buds?!
> 
> I think you might be hearing upper mids, rather than hot treble because these are actually a tad bit laid back in the treble area. Try using the bass foams. You would be surprised at how much this is tamed with those ( I was totally shocked by it).


Buds are a good fit for my work system because they're easy to take in an out if I have to make a call (as opposed to my current headphone set up or iems) and they're comfortable.  I'll keep tweaking things a bit!


----------



## samandhi

DenverW said:


> Buds are a good fit for my work system because they're easy to take in an out if I have to make a call (as opposed to my current headphone set up or iems) and they're comfortable.  I'll keep tweaking things a bit!


Do keep up up to date?!


----------



## fooltoque

dinodogJR said:


> As I read that Fiio FF3 can consider as *Laid back* sound signature from a review. How the Drums sound performance is interesting in FF3. Do you guys feels it is so realistic or just impactful than most premium earphones that couldn't achieve?
> 
> _"Are you an earbuds lover but also want them to have a bass close to an in-ears performance? FF3 might be for you. The bass is simply one of, if not, the best in their price range, bested only by their bigger brother, the EM5. The FF3 is also suited for those who are treble sensitive as they have a slightly dark and warm sound that is fatigue free. Detail freaks out there might find the FF3 a little lacking in this area as they are more to an laid-back signature. The FF3 robustness is also suited for everyday carry earbuds and to anywhere as well."_
> 
> https://audiomonsta.com/fiio-ff3-beats-like-a-drum/


Funny, I have them both, but for my ears the FF3's base is way more impactful than the EM5s. 

I also focus a lot on percussion when I'm listening, and FF3s are great for that. Like the double bass pedal in BabyMetal tracks. 


Or even just taiko drumming. The air feels like it's being moved.


----------



## fooltoque

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Guess who's lifetime supply of Fiio Bass Foams showed up today? This guy! 😁🤘


I also got my shipment last week, but instead of 10 balanced foams I got 6 bass foams. 

The customer service was great though, and they are resending my real order. If any of you get 10 balanced foams instead of your 6 bass, that was my order


----------



## samandhi

fooltoque said:


> Funny, I have them both, but for my ears the FF3's base is way more impactful than the EM5s.
> 
> I also focus a lot on percussion when I'm listening, and FF3s are great for that. Like the double bass pedal in BabyMetal tracks.
> 
> ...



Very nice! I agree BTW. They've got the mid bass just right on these. I only wish they went as deep as the Yinmans, or if the Yinmans had that slam of the FF3...


----------



## syazwaned

Grand Archer 1 is here guys. Out of the box, I love how it make me tap my table 😅.  Not suitable for male vocal, sounds really good with female and instrumental track. Will update more after burn in period.

I think it has similiar tonality with LBBs and Chaconne, neutral with small tilt towards bright. Only has Grand Archer bass and imaging is a bit better.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Listening tonight with my Frankenstein buds and newly arrived Shanling UP4.

Formula for the Franken buds:

Shell
Cable
Nicehck YD30 drivers
200 mesh
Y3 horse shoes
With these, you will will have a pair of buds that sounds neutral-ish, articulate but nimble bass (not much mid bass, sounds kind of like BA-bass, tbh), and a bit more mid-treble (8k). Vocal is forward. Soundstage is wide but not very deep (still better than IEMs). Resolution is adequate, but not jaw dropping, not even as good as Blessing 2. You should replace the YD30 drivers with something bassier.


----------



## Buchi

I think the Smabat ST20 is a good performer especially in the low end and it has a wide stage. I wish it wasn't such a hassle to fit.


----------



## FranQL

Buchi said:


> I think the Smabat ST20 is a good performer especially in the low end and it has a wide stage. I wish it wasn't such a hassle to fit.



IMO ST20 is an insane tuning, my ear is not capable of supporting it


----------



## jeejack

Buchi said:


> I think the Smabat ST20 is a good performer especially in the low end and it has a wide stage. I wish it wasn't such a hassle to fit.


😂😂😂 ear bleeding. Did you fool us right?


----------



## Buchi

FranQL said:


> IMO ST20 is an insane tuning, my ear is not capable of supporting it


I'm not referring to the Pro model.


----------



## qua2k

samandhi said:


> I concur with this assessment. (keep in mind I am going from memory here, as I haven't heard the Grado sound for some time but) the RW3000 do indeed sound the most like Grados "house" sound IIRC, of the ones recommended.


Grado lover here as well  I would add the pk150 or infamous Blur Wraith to that. the sound, staging, minimal but right bass in the right times is a close call to the Grado sound.


----------



## forestitalia

FranQL said:


> IMO ST20 is an insane tuning, my ear is not capable of supporting it


what is wrong with ST20?


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 14, 2022)

forestitalia said:


> what is wrong with ST20?


*🧊 +  >>> *


----------



## o0genesis0o

WoodyLuvr said:


> *🧊 +  >>> *


I think @forestitalia is talking about ST20 (the one without BA driver). Is that one badly tuned too?


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> I think @forestitalia is talking about ST20 (the one without BA driver). Is that one badly tuned too?


If I'm not mistaken, they are both very boosted in the pina gain (though I can't confirm this, as I have not heard either one to this point).


----------



## baskingshark

samandhi said:


> If I'm not mistaken, they are both very boosted in the pina gain (though I can't confirm this, as I have not heard either one to this point).



The general Smabat house signature does boost the 3 kHz region for sure.


----------



## Svstem

I have a question for you all - I am essentially split between buying the Rose Maria I and II, and am seeking guidance on their sonic characteristics from those who have heard both. How do the two compare? Is the II simply a better I? Or do they each have unique redeeming qualities?


----------



## dinodogJR (Sep 15, 2022)

samandhi said:


> If you want big time sound for little money (comparatively) the Focal Elegia are selling for $399 (were $1k)... I recently aquired a set and they are fantastic. They are closed back, but are VERY close to sounding like open backs (amazing technology inside IMO).
> 
> 
> This is what this tool is made for (about $1.50 or so). The person in this video actually made it look much harder than it is, and with this tool, there isn't a chance of messing up the connectors.
> ...



@samandhi Thanks for the headphone recommendation. Perhaps i didn't addressed my question in clearly. I am searching for any today's earbuds can achieve/closer to Headphones sound performance. I am retired from Headphones hunting journey since most of them just clamping over my skull. Also sweaty on my ear in the summertime.
I had keep an Eyes on Yincrow RW3000. It comes with different Ohm in the market. Not too sure are they any major sound affection in each others.
I would go for Yincrow Calf on the safer route before straight into the Flagship RW3000. For a taste of their timbre and earphone shell wearing comfortability. Also i don't even listened to X6 or RW9 as the proudness entry-level earbuds. Yincrow Calf would be much better in overall built for longer years. And it's lightweight to the RW2000 / RW3000 for comfortability.

_Yinman 2.0 600 Ohm _
I read thru some pages from you guys discussion over previous pages. It seems like a tricky game to amp up this High impedance Babe. Surely the price is a best bang with its Ohm. From your writing, i would put on my list as well. Hopefully their craftwork quality are trustworthy. Delightful Interesting to see a wooden shell for earphones~! I guess its not sweat resistant. I hope they got baked well the wooden shell else wooden could be "distorted or deformed" when times comes by.








Today i compared with Two headphones in comparison of _Bright vs Laid-back_ sound.  B&O sound signature consider as Laid back as it a closed headphones. I rarely got excited by Closed Headphones overall performance from the past memories. Today, i feel laid back is probably the ideal way to enjoy cinematic, wider headroom or airness quality in the content especially immersive into a Movie atmosphere with Depth x atmospheric like Blade Runner 2049 or Dune 2021. There's sacrifice with forward vocals & energetic fast punchy impact from drums.  Laid back sound is suitable for darkly and cold temp content, trip hop/Lo fi electronic or futuristic complex electronic samplers musician like bjork, Burial, Kruder & Dorfmeister, James Blake and fourtet. Most peoples would auditoning Laid back sound with Orchestral/Classical for its overall performance. Sorry i am not into that region of music genre.

_Yuin PK 2 + ibasso DC05_
Received my DAC ibasso DC05 only yesterday. It is such a wonderful little dongle and overcome the weak volume from cheapo DAC (Ugreen). This combo keeps the warmful forwading sound from Grado and increment in Instrument separation, also bringing good Imaging from B&O.
I am satisfy with the sound clarity in this combo. Just the soundstage could be further away from my shoulder if there's possible to reach "headphone" experience.
Yeah, there's no Depth in PK 2. I heard of depth in B&O in a distant but its tinnier consider as a microdetail.
I can confidently to say with Yuin Pk2 connected with iBasso DC05 does delivers a further refinement in every level of details. Honestly speaking if the earphones got no depth or wider soundstage information, there's nothing much it can improved from.

Ahhh.. i love earbuds with big sounds.~ Yeah i need to gently press B&O earpads for that low bass impact.
Earbuds got no such bass "leaking" issues.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

dinodogJR said:


> p/s: No worries about the auditioning. You can do it over weekend. No rushy man~. As i stay here you guys keep coming up with interesting knowledges and got my brain nucleus exploded even more.



Thanks for understanding. I've been at the studio for like 36 hours straight and just swung home for the last couple hours to shower, eat, and listen to my Audeze MM-500s that showed up yesterday for the first time. I'm already about to head back there now, but I brought the FF3s, ES-P1s, and the RW-3000s with me so I can look up those tracks and give them a whirl with each of my recommendations for you if I get a chance.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Guess what else arrived yesterday while I was at the studio? My VE Megatron! I'm taking it with my for when I get a break, but I took a few minutes to check it out and this thing is a BEAST! I was expecting it to be bigger by they way some reviewers were saying it's way too big to be a dongle and it's more like a desktop piece. Its basically the same size as portable amps like the Gryphon for example, though it is definitely the biggest "dongle" I've ever seen.

As I said before, when I tried it out an acquaintance's Megatron it sounded killer with my ES-P1s. The two just match very well. Even single ended this thing has a good bit of power, but when you plug into it on the balanced outputs it really does have some real muscle behind it. It sounded great with the AKG K702s I plugged into it which are a moderately hard to drive pair of headphones and it had plenty of power to spare and the 4.4mm output drove the HD650s I had on hand with no problem, not just getting enough volume out of them, but providing the requisite current to get them sounding full, controlled, and detailed which is no easy feat. I'll have to wait for another time to try it with even harder to drive stuff.

Just wanted to include that quick update since I believe some of you guys were interested in adding the Megatron to your arsenals IIRC. For $50 this is a crazy good deal.

Also I should mention that I got lucky and despite only paying for the $50 package I recieved the box with the Master buds bundle. I messaged the VEClan store on AE that I purchased them from because it felt dishonest to say nothing and they just said to enjoy them on the house. That's obviously the expected response, but good customer service all the same so I thought I'd like to give them their props.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Guess what else arrived yesterday while I was at the studio? My VE Megatron! I'm taking it with my for when I get a break, but I took a few minutes to check it out and this thing is a BEAST! I was expecting it to be bigger by they way some reviewers were saying it's way too big to be a dongle and it's more like a desktop piece. Its basically the same size as portable amps like the Gryphon for example, though it is definitely the biggest "dongle" I've ever seen.
> 
> As I said before, when I tried it out an acquaintance's Megatron it sounded killer with my ES-P1s. The two just match very well. Even single ended this thing has a good bit of power, but when you plug into it on the balanced outputs it really does have some real muscle behind it. It sounded great with the AKG K702s I plugged into it which are a moderately hard to drive pair of headphones and it had plenty of power to spare and the 4.4mm output drove the HD650s I had on hand with no problem, not just getting enough volume out of them, but providing the requisite current to get them sounding full, controlled, and detailed which is no easy feat. I'll have to wait for another time to try it with even harder to drive stuff.
> 
> ...


*Lee (@zhibli06)*👆


----------



## jogawag

Svstem said:


> I have a question for you all - I am essentially split between buying the Rose Maria I and II, and am seeking guidance on their sonic characteristics from those who have heard both. How do the two compare? Is the II simply a better I? Or do they each have unique redeeming qualities?


See this post by @WoodyLuvr.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16633306


----------



## ttorbic (Sep 15, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Guess what else arrived yesterday while I was at the studio? My VE Megatron! I'm taking it with my for when I get a break, but I took a few minutes to check it out and this thing is a BEAST! I was expecting it to be bigger by they way some reviewers were saying it's way too big to be a dongle and it's more like a desktop piece. Its basically the same size as portable amps like the Gryphon for example, though it is definitely the biggest "dongle" I've ever seen.
> 
> As I said before, when I tried it out an acquaintance's Megatron it sounded killer with my ES-P1s. The two just match very well. Even single ended this thing has a good bit of power, but when you plug into it on the balanced outputs it really does have some real muscle behind it. It sounded great with the AKG K702s I plugged into it which are a moderately hard to drive pair of headphones and it had plenty of power to spare and the 4.4mm output drove the HD650s I had on hand with no problem, not just getting enough volume out of them, but providing the requisite current to get them sounding full, controlled, and detailed which is no easy feat. I'll have to wait for another time to try it with even harder to drive stuff.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing your impressions! I have yet to collect mine from the local post office as I've been on holiday... Hopefully they haven't sent it back to Wild Lee!

Btw, how are the Rikubuds treating you?


----------



## Ronion

I couldn't resist today.  I know I am a bit compulsive, but no matter the previous tunings, the 500Be just wasn't close enough to perfect.  I played the whac-a-mole game with the response balance, but ultimately I cannot deny the rightness of approximating my target.  So, that's just where I landed: a small deviation again from target.  There's a range of divergence that sounds acceptable and even enjoyable for their individuality for sure, but too far away, and I eventually find them a nuisance.  I thought I would like the big bass, but it quickly went out of fashion.  I know this target thing is essentially settled for me.  No matter what comes on my various sources, this sounds right.


----------



## forestitalia

samandhi said:


> If I'm not mistaken, they are both very boosted in the pina gain (though I can't confirm this, as I have not heard either one to this point).


I hear the peak with the ST10s, not with the ST20 and ST20 pro.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Sep 15, 2022)

I think I can finally understand why some manufacturers get so defensive when facing negative reviews. Because I was certainly pissed when getting my colleagues to review my butchered GEM001  

Drilling extra bass vents around the MX500 drivers is certainly not a good idea, here are some complaints:

“Too muddy, not clear, like a lot of details are missing” (excuse meeee? Lacking details? The 64 ohm composite TI drivers?)
“Too much bass”
“Sound soft, like the beats are not done properly” (in the end, the girl realised that it is not that the beats are soft, but because the bassline is not articulated)

Time to desolder the drivers and try again 

Edit: despite saying “my ears are not good”, “I can’t hear”, “I’m not audiophile”, anyone can hear and provide critique on sound quality. It seems that extra energy around 250 to 500hz is universally hated


----------



## Ronion (Sep 15, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> I think I can finally understand why some manufacturers get so defensive when facing negative reviews. Because I was certainly pissed when getting my colleagues to review my butchered GEM001
> 
> Drilling extra bass vents around the MX500 drivers is certainly not a good idea, here are some complaints:
> 
> ...


But didn't they line up well with the FiiO over that frequency range on your rig?


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 15, 2022)

ttorbic said:


> Btw, how are the Rikubuds treating you?



Funny you should ask because I was just thinking that I haven't taken the time to post about them as I promised Riku and others that I would. I've been pretty busy so I have had to break my listening sessions up and I have had a lot of new headphones showing up that I have had gear demos with local shops set up for to find matching amps and DACs so that along with studio work caused things to get put off. I'll still try to do something more thorough when I get more time, but here's a quick summary:

I got the RikuBuds Rider 1s a couple weeks back and I have to say that I think Riku nailed it by suggesting this model to me after I relayed my musical tastes because these are very well suited to the indie, blues, punk, and emo kinda stuff I told him I wanted a set for, though they can certainly cover more than that.

In many ways the Rider 1s remind me of an easier to drive if slightly less detailed RW-3000s or a slightly more tame, more detailed Toneking TP16. To me these are both pretty big compliments because I am a big fan of both of those buds and use them both on a regular basis.

The real beauty of the Rider 1s is actually in their simplicity. The MX500 shell fits me well and the blue shells with the matching blue and silver twisted cable is a nice understated look. The Rider 1s are what I like to call an "uncolored" earbud meaning they give you exactly what you feed them, nothing more and nothing less. If you plug them into a quality source you get plenty of precise details back, but conversely if you give them a source that isn't up to snuff (the files or the hardware) you'll hear it on the other end and I like that a lot about these buds.

The Rider 1s are a pretty balanced earbud, though I wouldn't call them neutral per se. The low end is slightly boosted and mid bass focused, the agile bass/driver producing a detailed, punchy, and lively low and that's perfect for letting the listener hear the kick drum, bass guitar, and floor tom beats that are the driving force in most of the songs from the genres I mentioned above. The mids are pretty level and linear with perhaps a slight lean into the upper mids, but only very slight so female vocals are sweet, but male vocals come off with plenty of body and fuzzy distorted guitars chug along with good bite and grit. The treble is polite though detailed and reasonably well extended. This is where the more tamed comparison to the TP16s comes in as they have more air and sparkle, but to the point that it can get a little too aggressive for certain tracks.

The soundstage on these is pretty wide which along with the balanced tuning makes the reminiscent of the RW-3000s. The instrument separation is pretty good throughout the sonic range. One small criticism is that I feel like on some songs the center imaging tends to get a little soft. By that I mean that when sources are coming from either side of the soundstage there is adequate space and crispness to differentiate between their points of origin, but in the center all the sounds seem to come from a single somewhat nebulous source. It's very important to keep a couple things in mind when I say that though: 1) This isn't something that is noticeable on very many tracks because most popular rock music (music in general really) just isn't mastered or recorded well enough for precise imaging to play a role in its reproduction regardless of a given transducer's properties and 2) These are only €50 earbuds! For this to be the one and only tiny niggle I have speaks to the fact that they're a nice pair of earbuds that Riku has done a good job with.

The last thing I will mention is that I would encourage anyone looking to get these buds to make sure they have a good clean source available for plugging the Rider 1s into. They seem to do well with ESS sources that sound clean leaning towards clinical and with the less warm AKM sources. My favorite match with these, believe it or not is with the Tempotec iDSD (not the plus version) which has the ES9018K2M chip in it or the A&K Kann Alpha I own which is known for being a clinical and detailed sounding DAP. The Rider 1s LOVE detail and are more than capable of taking advantage of higher resolution files. I don't mean that they're the most detailed buds, but they show off their best attributes (like that agile bass I like) when reproducing high quality files from quality sources. I hope that makes sense.

Sorry to Riku and you guys that after 2+ weeks I still basically only gave you a post with the detail of one of my "first impressions" pieces, but I didn't want to ignore @ttorbic and put off posting something even longer when I have already promised this. Also, I'd like to thank Riku for the putting his work out there and for the solid recommendation. The Rider 1s are an easy to recommend bud that I think would please any listener accept maybe the most ardent trebleheads and bassheads.

Cheers and I hope this is detailed enough to be useful!

P.S. You'll have to excuse any typing errors. I'm pressed for time and I'm typing on a phone while eating lol!


----------



## o0genesis0o (Sep 15, 2022)

Ronion said:


> But didn't they line up well with the FiiO over that frequency range on your rig?



Not this one. This is the one that I drilled two extra bass vents behind the horse shoes (in addition to the usual bass hole at the back). I would not do this mod again. Not only it is hard to do it consistently, it seems to boost the mud region rather than extending bass response.

I’ll try stuffing some foams to reduce the air going though those bass holes first and see how it goes. If it is still bad, I’ll desolder and make another pair.

Edit: @Ronion





Just like what you said, the effect of adding more holes at the back of the driver is actually reducing ear gain. When I align everything around 1k, it's clear that losing ear gain + adding a couple db in the mud region makes all the difference. It's also interesting to see that FF3 actually has a lot lower midrange, but balance everything out smoothly with extra ear gain.

Tonality / tuning is ... interesting. Changing one part, even a couple db, can have butterfly effect across the whole range and the perception of the sound.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Fiio FF3 - Indomitable.

With all the buzzes about DIY earbuds, I haven't used FF3 in a while. After the humbling experience with GEM001, I rebuild the buds and A/B it against FF3. In the end, I have to say: hats off to Fiio's engineers for excellent tuning and especially the bass. FF3's ear gain pierces through the lower midrange like hot knife through butter, without getting too hot piercing. At the same time, the bass hits deep with full of articulation and texture. My buds were fine by themselves, but next to FF3, it's clearly that there is a lot to learn and experience ahead   

Hopefully my review for FF3 would be complete by this weekends. 

A complete set of Smabat M4 hopefully would arrive next month. Can't wait to measure all of the drivers.


----------



## chavez

o0genesis0o said:


> Fiio FF3 - Indomitable.
> 
> With all the buzzes about DIY earbuds, I haven't used FF3 in a while. After the humbling experience with GEM001, I rebuild the buds and A/B it against FF3. In the end, I have to say: hats off to Fiio's engineers for excellent tuning and especially the bass. FF3's ear gain pierces through the lower midrange like hot knife through butter, without getting too hot piercing. At the same time, the bass hits deep with full of articulation and texture. My buds were fine by themselves, but next to FF3, it's clearly that there is a lot to learn and experience ahead
> 
> ...



You only started with the DIY and tried only one driver. Have fun continuing your DIY journey 😎.


----------



## samandhi

forestitalia said:


> I hear the peak with the ST10s, not with the ST20 and ST20 pro.


It might be that the ST10S do indeed have a peak there, where the ST20, and Pro might be more linear; boosted still, but linear. This might make it sound more natural to an ear that is not so sensitive to that area. I can tolerate that boost more if it is linear, but it still gets to me either way. 

The ST10S are perceived as having a bit less boost only because of their boosted bass. But I can also hear that peak when using any volume level higher than normal levels, and on certain music (Alice in Chains, Judas Priest, etc...). 

When you are talking about the ST10S, are you referring to the Black & Gold, or the Black & Silver version? Those DO make a difference from all that I have read about them. Of course when I speak of boosted bass, I am referring to the ones I currently own, which is the B&G (150Ti driver).


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Tonality / tuning is ... interesting. Changing one part, even a couple db, can have butterfly effect across the whole range and the perception of the sound.


It really does!  It’s like a Zen Master-type thing: achieving balance.


----------



## samandhi

Well, My lil' M0 arrived today (WOW it came from China very fast). I gotta' say it pushes my FQL Grand Finale (150Ti) pretty well, though there isn't a TON of headroom. Comfortable listening levels for this one is about 70 of 100. But they sound pretty good for a cheaper DAC/amp. I can definitely tell it is a lesser quality sound than my other DAPs, but for only $100, I will not complain (being able to play hi-res files). This will be great for my wife (and I didn't have to pay $500-$1K for it)...  I am pleased (and may have to carry it around for a time to.... break it in.   



Spoiler: Shanling M0 > FQL Grand Finale


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Well, My lil' M0 arrived today (WOW it came from China very fast). I gotta' say it pushes my FQL Grand Finale (150Ti) pretty well, though there isn't a TON of headroom. Comfortable listening levels for this one is about 70 of 100. But they sound pretty good for a cheaper DAC/amp. I can definitely tell it is a lesser quality sound than my other DAPs, but for only $100, I will not complain (being able to play hi-res files). This will be great for my wife (and I didn't have to pay $500-$1K for it)...  I am pleased (and may have to carry it around for a time to.... break it in.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Shanling M0 > FQL Grand Finale



A piece of advice, DON'T tell her that you assessed it's audio quality as lower quality than YOUR  daps, but good enough for HER or you'll end up spending that extra cash on a better one for her lol! Just say it has great sound in small form fact that you saw and immediately thought was perfect for her. That way you'll come off as the thoughtful guy who was thinking about her and got her a present you think she'll like.😍👍

And I didn't know DAC chips and electronic circuits needed burn in. That's so nice of you to get all the unbalanced bad sound out of it for her! 😜


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> A piece of advice, DON'T tell her that you assessed it's audio quality as lower quality than YOUR daps, but good enough for HER or you'll end up spending that extra cash on a better one for her lol! Just say it has great sound in small form fact that you saw and immediately thought was perfect for her. That way you'll come off as the thoughtful guy who was thinking about her and got her a present you think she'll like.😍👍


That is certainly some very good advice. Some that I will adhere to for sure.   


JAnonymous5150 said:


> And I didn't know DAC chips and electronic circuits needed burn in. That's so nice of you to get all the unbalanced bad sound out of it for her! 😜


Oh yes! It is a big thing, if you didn't know.


----------



## drewbadour

Couple new things arrived and joined my growin stable of buds:

1. Longyao Yinman 600
2. tgxear Alpha

Love them both! 
Alpha is like a slightly warmer Serratus with less subbass extension and more mid focus. Very good complement to Serratus - vocals and mids are an absolute joy!
And Yinman 600 is just straight up pleasant to listen to! Warmer than Alpha and with more bass extension. Not quite as separated or open but very enjoyable to just listen to!

Unfortunately, my Yinman 600 has channels flipped (left channel marked R, right marked L). Gonna message AVVCK Store to see if they'll make up for this....


----------



## samandhi

drewbadour said:


> And Yinman 600 is just straight up pleasant to listen to! Warmer than Alpha and with more bass extension. Not quite as separated or open but very enjoyable to just listen to!


What sort of source and power are you driving them with?


drewbadour said:


> Couple new things arrived and joined my growin stable of buds:
> 
> 1. Longyao Yinman 600
> 2. tgxear Alpha


Congrats on your new shinies! 


drewbadour said:


> Unfortunately, my Yinman 600 has channels flipped (left channel marked R, right marked L). Gonna message AVVCK Store to see if they'll make up for this....


Do let us know how that works out for you?!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

drewbadour said:


> Couple new things arrived and joined my growin stable of buds:
> 
> 1. Longyao Yinman 600
> 2. tgxear Alpha
> ...


Enjoy!

What type of wooden box did they come in? A nicely finished wooden box or a roughly made wooden coffin?


----------



## BCool

My Smabat M4 arrived today with a pair of 150Ω drivers. Initial impressions:

The housing is really nice, aesthetically and in percieved build quality. Comfort is OK, about the same as MX500 shells.
The cable is ideal for buds: light and supple. Not quite as nice as the Timeless stock cable but very similar in appearance and feel.
The 40Ω driver is fairly V-shaped, but the bass does not extend as very far making things sound hollow(?). Also unexpectedly hard to drive. Slightly disappointed with performance given the price.
The 150Ω driver adds bass extension and makes things sound richer/more full. Definitely the better of the two.
I'll need more listening time to compare with my go-to pair, the Penon PAC earbuds which to my ears sound very simliar to the Yincrow X-6 with a touch more bass extension and quantity.


----------



## Dsnuts

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tgxear-discussion-thread.964894/






I figure I would post about this in here since you guys are bud fans. These are substantial like you wouldn't believe. They are the creation from a fellow headfier that has spent years modding and honing down IEMs and speakers. Find out more about these on their dedicated thread.


----------



## drewbadour

WoodyLuvr said:


> Enjoy!
> 
> What type of wooden box did they come in? A nicely finished wooden box or a roughly made wooden coffin?


Got the junk one :/


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Fiio FF3 - Indomitable.
> 
> With all the buzzes about DIY earbuds, I haven't used FF3 in a while. After the humbling experience with GEM001, I rebuild the buds and A/B it against FF3. In the end, I have to say: hats off to Fiio's engineers for excellent tuning and especially the bass. FF3's ear gain pierces through the lower midrange like hot knife through butter, without getting too hot piercing. At the same time, the bass hits deep with full of articulation and texture. My buds were fine by themselves, but next to FF3, it's clearly that there is a lot to learn and experience ahead
> 
> ...


Every time I plug them in I’m impressed.  The fact that they got so much resolution from low impedance drivers and a deep, articulate, punchy bass with a great soundstage.  It’s a keeper.  There’s something delicious in the midrange too.  This is the sort of thing that confounds me: what measurements show that?  I literally haven’t seen any literature on it.  I have some guesses, but I’ve read others guesses and I know there’s no research to support them….  I don’t assume I’m smarter than they are.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> Every time I plug them in I’m impressed.  The fact that they got so much resolution from low impedance drivers and a deep, articulate, punchy bass with a great soundstage.  It’s a keeper.  There’s something delicious in the midrange too.  This is the sort of thing that confounds me: what measurements show that?  I literally haven’t seen any literature on it.  I have some guesses, but I’ve read others guesses and I know there’s no research to support them….  I don’t assume I’m smarter than they are.



According to Amir and his fans at ASR, resolution does not seem to exist. The only thing matters is FR matching Harman target. I read a review of Salnote Zero by Amir yesterday and saw one person asking about the lack of resolution, the response is essentially "stop imagining". 

Kind of funny, since the guy who actually builds headphones for a living (Dan Clark) absolutely believes that there is resolution, but our measurement tool and knowledge cannot detect reliably yet.

The GEM001 saga continue: I filled in the drilled bass vents and let my colleague listen again. She said that the vocal cut through the mix, bass is crisper and deeper (yup, she is using the right terminology now). In overall, massive improvement. However, there is a significant channel imbalance in the bass region according to her. She can't hear any special soundstage / imaging either (she daily drive Apple wired earbuds, so maybe she is used to large soundstage?). The moral of the story? Anyone can listen and critique head-fi gears if they pay attention, yet most people keep saying "no, I can't hear, my ears are not good, I don't know audio".

Still, lots of respect for DIYers like TGX, Riku, and manufacturers in general. It's hard to produce good tuning. Perhaps that's why sticking to Harman is not a bad idea. At least it is "scientifically correct"


----------



## MelodyMood (Sep 15, 2022)

Friends. Just received the EMA TRN Earbud I ordered. I am at very early stage of listening but only one word came into my mind after listening of just 10 min. That is Mind Blowing. I would like to add more words like Amazing, Brilliant and what not. What a lovely sound. Beautiful Clarity and Good Bass and little bit of thump too.

Here is the link: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256804224513469.html

At AUD $14-15, this is an excellent steal. Very High quality Packaging, Material, Metal Housing and what not. I don't have any experience in writing long full reviews but this is really nice earbuds. A Must Have.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Sep 15, 2022)

MelodyMood said:


> Friends. Just received the EMA TRN Earbud I ordered. I am at very early stage of listening but only one word came into my mind after listening of just 10 min. That is Mind Blowing. I would like to add more words like Amazing, Brilliant and what not. What a lovely sound. Beautiful Clarity and Good Bass and little bit of thump too.
> 
> Here is the link: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256804224513469.html
> 
> At AUD $14-15, this is excellent steal. Very High quality Packaging, Material, Metal Housing and what not. I don't have any experience in writing long full reviews but this is really nice earbuds. A Must Have.



AUD? Hey there, fellow Aussie   Looking forward for your detailed impressions.

Agree with you that AUD $15 is insanely great value. Economy of scale is certainly at play here. A pair of metal shell + MMCX cable + drivers certainly cost more than AUD $15. 

------
On an unrelated note, I have a complete set of M4 (main body + all drivers, including the BA driver) coming. The expected delivery is 20/10. Can't wait. I will measure everything I can and share with you.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

MelodyMood said:


> Friends. Just received the EMA TRN Earbud I ordered. I am at very early stage of listening but only one word came into my mind after listening of just 10 min. That is Mind Blowing. I would like to add more words like Amazing, Brilliant and what not. What a lovely sound. Beautiful Clarity and Good Bass and little bit of thump too.
> 
> Here is the link: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256804224513469.html
> 
> At AUD $14-15, this is an excellent steal. Very High quality Packaging, Material, Metal Housing and what not. I don't have any experience in writing long full reviews but this is really nice earbuds. A Must Have.



I too have been telling the folks around here that the EMAs are a legit option in the low cost price bracket. I really like them and I think they offer a lot of value for the money too. They're a good way to get a good pair of buds for cheap!


----------



## MelodyMood

o0genesis0o said:


> AUD? Hey there, fellow Aussie   Looking forward for your detailed impressions.
> 
> Agree with you that AUD $15 is insanely great value. Economy of scale is certainly at play here. A pair of metal shell + MMCX cable + drivers certainly cost more than AUD $15.
> 
> ...


Nice to meet you 

It is 2 Pin Connector Cable but really great earbud. I bought SMABAT M0 40 Ohms Driver which costed me around $40 but this one (EMA TRN), is 3 times (or may be more) better than those. I guess SMABAT is charging unnecessary high price for not that earbud.


----------



## MelodyMood

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I too have been telling the folks around here that the EMAs are a legit option in the low cost price bracket. I really like them and I think they offer a lot of value for the money too. They're a good way to get a good pair of buds for cheap!


I think you only posted abt EMA TRN few weeks ago. After reading that post only I decided to give it a try and it was wise decision  Really nice sound. I am sure that the sound will be even better after few days of listening. They recently launched their Flagship Earbud EMX (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256804534353639.html). It is on higher side of the price though but I am sure that it will be much higher in terms of everything than TRN.


----------



## DBaldock9

It appears that the Smabat M4 items that I recently ordered, have cleared US Customs.
So, they should be delivered sometime during the next week.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

MelodyMood said:


> I think you only posted abt EMA TRN few weeks ago. After reading that post only I decided to give it a try and it was wise decision  Really nice sound. I am sure that the sound will be even better after few days of listening. They recently launched their Flagship Earbud EMX (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256804534353639.html). It is on higher side of the price though but I am sure that it will be much higher in terms of everything than TRN.



Yeah, I have actually been thinking about trying the EMX as well, but at this point I still have a lot of buds I haven't finished listening to and deciding which to keep and which to move so I think I'll probably hold off for a bit. I mean, the EMX isn't going anywhere, right?

BTW, I'm glad to hear that my comments were useful! That's the biggest reason I started posting here so that's pretty cool to hear. My girl has been trying to get me to start a blog with audio gear reviews on it, but I think there are plenty of people doing that already so it's particularly nice to hear that I'm still helping people more informally so thanks! 👍😎


----------



## JAnonymous5150

DBaldock9 said:


> It appears that the Smabat M4 items that I recently ordered, have cleared US Customs.
> So, they should be delivered sometime during the next week.


 Mine cleared Monday so I'm waiting anxiously as well! Good luck, man! 🤞


----------



## MelodyMood

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Yeah, I have actually been thinking about trying the EMX as well, but at this point I still have a lot of buds I haven't finished listening to and deciding which to keep and which to move so I think I'll probably hold off for a bit. I mean, the EMX isn't going anywhere, right?


Absolutely not. They have just launched it and I am sure it will stay if the sound is good and it is value for money like TRN. I am sure they have come up with much better sound signature as the cost if 4X of TRN. 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> BTW, I'm glad to hear that my comments were useful! That's the biggest reason I started posting here so that's pretty cool to hear. My girl has been trying to get me to start a blog with audio gear reviews on it, but I think there are plenty of people doing that already so it's particularly nice to hear that I'm still helping people more informally so thanks! 👍😎


Yes. It was helpful. And I agree with you girl. Go for it. It will be good and helpful too. Don't think that many people are already doing so yours won't be welcomed. There is no work in the world which is done by only 1-2 people


----------



## Ronion (Sep 16, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> According to Amir and his fans at ASR, resolution does not seem to exist. The only thing matters is FR matching Harman target. I read a review of Salnote Zero by Amir yesterday and saw one person asking about the lack of resolution, the response is essentially "stop imagining".
> 
> Kind of funny, since the guy who actually builds headphones for a living (Dan Clark) absolutely believes that there is resolution, but our measurement tool and knowledge cannot detect reliably yet.
> 
> ...


Dan Clark is not wrong.  He may not be right on everything, but he’s right about that. 

interesting that you mention the Apple EarPods.  I found a set of these dusty buds in a dank drawer today.  I’m not sure where they are from but I took measurements for fun.  They seem to do okay really with some old generic foams on.  I bet they would do better with HieGi though.





they seem to be fairly bright on my rig, but don’t sound particularly bright in my ear.  They don’t sound anywhere near as detailed as the FiiO, 130Be, or the 500Be.  There’s definitely a thing called resolution and soundstage even though I can’t prove it.  There are lots of metrics beyond Frequency Response… They are just very hard to control for and thus it’s very difficult to tease out.

I personally can’t go with the Harman Science (as I’m sure you’re suggesting just by the smiley) just like Dan Clark, Sony, Sennheiser, Creative Labs, FiiO, etc...  It’s so obvious that it’s wrong even Chad Kroeger knows it and I demonstrated quite clearly and succinctly and linked it in my signature.  Harman started with a false premise and then tried to fix it with a 2 band EQ. That’s why they call it a preference curve.  So a 2 band EQ was used to ”fix” a mistake.  2 wrongs don’t make a right.  3 wrongs…. Probably not going to get much more correct, but the balance likely improved from their original.  Scientifically Correct…. I wouldn’t say that really.  Scientifically preferred over their original problem would be more accurate.  Unfortunately, you could start with any curve, install a 2 band EQ, and get 80% of people to like something similar to each other based on that.  All that really tells us is that we tend to like similar things as humans even across cultures, sexes and age groups.  All the science on audio playback already tells us this.  There are always a few outliers however.  I refer to them as oddiophiles.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> I refer to them as oddiophiles.



I want to be an oddiophile! Where do I sign up? 😜


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I want to be an oddiophile! Where do I sign up? 😜


I think you need to start that club!  I’d sign up.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> I personally can’t go with the Harman Science (as I’m sure you’re suggesting just by the smiley) just like Dan Clark, Sony, Sennheiser, Creative Labs, FiiO, etc...



The other day, I suddenly thought “why must headphones sound like good speakers in a good room”? 

Anyhow, I personally believe that a good target for head-fi gear needs ear gain and controlled bass boost to compensate for the form factor. How much to boost is debatable. Any other form of target sounds wrong to me somehow (think of weird flat tuning of JH, old school tuning of Sennheiser IE300 and IE900, honky 1.25k boost of Westone MACH20, 30,40). I also believe that 10-12k dip is a must to avoid metallic timbre and create holographic illusion.

The good thing about dynamic drivers nowadays is that they usually have those characteristics built in. That’s why singing about “well tuned budget IEM” is kind of … meh to me. Give me good technical performance for a low price. That’s the real challenge.


----------



## dinodogJR

JAnonymous5150 said:


> rentiate between their points of origin, but in the center all the sounds seem to come from a single somewhat nebulous source. It's very important to ke





drewbadour said:


> Couple new things arrived and joined my growin stable of buds:
> 
> 1. Longyao Yinman 600
> 2. tgxear Alpha
> ...


How is Yinman 600 ohms timbre and sound signature compared to ToneKing with a few different Ohms earphones?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> I think you need to start that club!  I’d sign up.



Maybe I should start an "Oddiophile Club Thread" for everyone who loves music, but whose views don't always jive with traditional audiophile thinking. I'm gonna have to refine this idea. I don't want to go off half-cocked and burn the idea...🤔💡


----------



## Ronion (Sep 16, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> The other day, I suddenly thought “why must headphones sound like good speakers in a good room”?
> 
> Anyhow, I personally believe that a good target for head-fi gear needs ear gain and controlled bass boost to compensate for the form factor. How much to boost is debatable. Any other form of target sounds wrong to me somehow (think of weird flat tuning of JH, old school tuning of Sennheiser IE300 and IE900, honky 1.25k boost of Westone MACH20, 30,40). I also believe that 10-12k dip is a must to avoid metallic timbre and create holographic illusion.
> 
> The good thing about dynamic drivers nowadays is that they usually have those characteristics built in. That’s why singing about “well tuned budget IEM” is kind of … meh to me. Give me good technical performance for a low price. That’s the real challenge.


This is exactly where we are as far as I can tell only I’d scoot that notch down a little bit to match my experimental results (From a tonal accuracy perspective though it’s close to inconsequential at those frequencies).   Spacially, there is some significance there for sure. I couldn’t have said it any better.


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Maybe I should start an "Oddiophile Club Thread" for everyone who loves music, but whose views don't always jive with traditional audiophile thinking. I'm gonna have to refine this idea. I don't want to go off half-cocked and burn the idea...🤔💡


Sounds like a great start!  You need at least one nerd though.  Someone has to sit in a tower somewhere and devise the calendar after the great Armageddon.  No shortage of those round here 😆


----------



## JAnonymous5150

dinodogJR said:


> How is Yinman 600 ohms timbre and sound signature compared to ToneKing with a few different Ohms earphones?



This is a generalization, but Toneking generally leans brighter with an airier an more boosted treble, the amount and depth of bass differ from model to model quite a bit IME, but tends to be fast and articulate, and the mids lean towards the upper mids.

The Yinman 600s are significantly warmer with more bass, more linear mid range that, if anything, give preference to the low mid warmth though I think that's very slight, and the treble is polite and controlled.

I hope that helps!


----------



## christianfps

Recently I wanted to try some headphones just to have some alternatives when listening to music or gaming. What caught my eye was the Edifier Hecate GX. Hecate is like Edifier's sub brand for gaming peripherals and I think it would've been a good buy if I haven't have owned the FIIO FF3s first haha! The bass reproduction of the FF3 is just so good and at times has a wider soundstage than my headphones haha!


----------



## Ronion

Ronion said:


> This is exactly where we are as far as I can tell only I’d scoot that notch down a little bit to match my experimental results (From a tonal accuracy perspective though it’s close to inconsequential at those frequencies).   Spacially, there is some significance there for sure. I couldn’t have said it any better.


I also want to add: I only jokingly disparage the Harman Curve.  It’s good to have a standard.  I’d rather have a better standard, but it’s a starting point.  It always bothered me that they used a notoriously low rez sounding IEM to start the test with and their starting point makes little sense from the available experimental data.  Their data looks like it came from a headless dummy.  How do they not have a head shadow from a stereo source?


----------



## dinodogJR (Sep 16, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> This is a generalization, but Toneking generally leans brighter with an airier an more boosted treble, the amount and depth of bass differ from model to model quite a bit IME, but tends to be fast and articulate, and the mids lean towards the upper mids.
> 
> The Yinman 600s are significantly warmer with more bass, more linear mid range that, if anything, give preference to the low mid warmth though I think that's very slight, and the treble is polite and controlled.
> 
> I hope that helps!


Thanks for the quick insight~. Seems like there's no major differences in both of them. Just the shell material and design would be taking into concern. Both of them are generally categorized into Bright & Warm sound signature.

I came across a review between different ohms performance vs suitable music genre in Toneking. As 180 ohm, 200 ohm, 400 ohm to 600 ohm. The reviewer mentioned 200 Ohm would be all rounder the best choice in any types of music. Just the higher Ohm would deliver more details in each areas.

I am curious what you guys can benefit from Higher impedance earphones actually as it might need a proper DAC for the best perfection performance.
It seems like a more complex earphones to 16/32 Ohms Premium Earphones which is easy to drive.

Are there any significant contrast between High Impedance Earphones vs Low Impedance Premium Earphones (Minus the price tag) ?


----------



## dinodogJR (Sep 16, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> The other day, I suddenly thought “why must headphones sound like good speakers in a good room”?
> 
> Anyhow, I personally believe that a good target for head-fi gear needs ear gain and controlled bass boost to compensate for the form factor. How much to boost is debatable. Any other form of target sounds wrong to me somehow (think of weird flat tuning of JH, old school tuning of Sennheiser IE300 and IE900, honky 1.25k boost of Westone MACH20, 30,40). I also believe that 10-12k dip is a must to avoid metallic timbre and create holographic illusion.
> 
> The good thing about dynamic drivers nowadays is that they usually have those characteristics built in. That’s why singing about “well tuned budget IEM” is kind of … meh to me. Give me good technical performance for a low price. That’s the real challenge.


This statement comes to my personal "chasing the best sound for my ears" before i got myself into the Headphones's hunting.
I was a kid listened to my dad mini Home Hifi with its Technics bookshelves amped with Sansui amplifier. It is Bright & Warm sounding to me obviously. You can hearing all the detail, impactful drums and so on. All these music information which lies inside a quality built Dynamic driver headphone with Bright & Warm sound.

That was the Sound i used to live with since childhood. 

And later on with Laid-back/Veiled/Dark sound signature which was a new sound signature from Sennheiser Hd650 i auditioned for the first time. It was unique to me and i didn't know what i should do to immerse myself into this new introducing sound atmosphere.


----------



## samandhi

DBaldock9 said:


> It appears that the Smabat M4 items that I recently ordered, have cleared US Customs.
> So, they should be delivered sometime during the next week.





JAnonymous5150 said:


> Mine cleared Monday so I'm waiting anxiously as well! Good luck, man! 🤞


Mine are at the local delivery facility according to AE tracking, but USPS has not updated their status for them for a few days. That generally means they will just show up, THEN the tracking information will be updated. I would imagine I should get them either today, or tomorrow.... 


dinodogJR said:


> I am curious what you guys can benefit from Higher impedance earphones actually as it might need a proper DAC for the best perfection performance.
> It seems like a more complex earphones to 16/32 Ohms Premium Earphones which is easy to drive.


I posted this a few days ago regarding high impedance drivers (and their benefits over their equivalent counterparts). Also, keep in mind that this is NOT talking about the makers that "cheat" and simply use a resistor to boost the impedance (and from others talking to me, more do it than you think). 



samandhi said:


> High impedance versions, compared to their counterparts, use thinner wires in the voice coil, which means more turns since you can pack more in a smaller space. In addition, you still get a lower moving mass which creates a stronger electromagnetic field. But, of course, this means that to produce motion in the voice coil's wire, you will need more power.
> 
> However, the headphones can deliver higher audio levels since their stronger field reduces distortion, ensuring you can better pick up different frequencies.


----------



## forestitalia (Sep 17, 2022)

samandhi said:


> It might be that the ST10S do indeed have a peak there, where the ST20, and Pro might be more linear; boosted still, but linear. This might make it sound more natural to an ear that is not so sensitive to that area. I can tolerate that boost more if it is linear, but it still gets to me either way.
> 
> The ST10S are perceived as having a bit less boost only because of their boosted bass. But I can also hear that peak when using any volume level higher than normal levels, and on certain music (Alice in Chains, Judas Priest, etc...).
> 
> When you are talking about the ST10S, are you referring to the Black & Gold, or the Black & Silver version? Those DO make a difference from all that I have read about them. Of course when I speak of boosted bass, I am referring to the ones I currently own, which is the B&G (150Ti driver).


I have the ST10 s Black Gold, very detailed, not for bad recordings, they remember me the Senn hd800, but with more bass 
The ST20 pro also very detailed, if the recording is not good then is what you got, especially on highs.
Both difficult to drive, need to raise volume the double than with the ST20 no-pro. I always do listen at medium low volume.
With the ST20's need to consider the form, subjective, I have narrow ears and can insert with no problem, e.g. LLBS don't fit at all with me. To keep them steady I bought a cable with memory wire at connector that keeps them attached very well, vast improvement.

All of them have the quality and amount of  bass I can't find in any other earbuds. The ST20 pro have great extension, especially on treble, I'd recommend only for top quality recordings and proper amp, mostly I use the XD05 bal due portability, is ok, but are even better with headphones amplifier with a couple of watt.


----------



## samandhi

forestitalia said:


> I have the ST10 s Black Gold, very detailed, not for bad recordings, they remember me the Senn hd800, but with more bass
> The ST20 pro also very detailed, if the recording is not good then is what you got, especially on highs.
> Both difficult to drive, need to raise volume the double than with the ST20 no-pro. I always do listen at medium low volume.
> With the ST20's need to consider the form, subjective, I have narrow ears and can insert with no problem, e.g. LLBS don't fit at all with me. To keep them steady I bought a cable with wire at connector that keeps them attached very well, vast improvement.
> ...


Thanks for your sharing! 

To my ears the Super One (100ohm bio) driver for the M2s Pro is similar to the 150Ti they use in the ST10S B&G, but is overall a bit more balanced. Really, if you don't mind a boosted pina gain, all of their drivers are pretty top notch IMO.


----------



## forestitalia

samandhi said:


> Thanks for your sharing!
> 
> To my ears the Super One (100ohm bio) driver for the M2s Pro is similar to the 150Ti they use in the ST10S B&G, but is overall a bit more balanced. Really, if you don't mind a boosted pina gain, all of their drivers are pretty top notch IMO.


Honestly i don't have any problem with the ST20 pro, apart some bad recordings. But for example I hated the Sennheiser hd800, trebles killed me.


----------



## samandhi

forestitalia said:


> Honestly i don't have any problem with the ST20 pro, apart some bad recordings. But for example I hated the Sennheiser hd800, trebles killed me.


Then, it would seem that you and @JAnonymous5150 are alike in this matter (being impervious to the shouty/shrill nature that a boosted pina gain brings). Lucky dogs! LOL

As for me, I am not sensitive to boosted treble of any kind (though I don't like unnatural sound, or actual sibilance with S and the like). I just don't like it, but it doesn't hurt my ears (even with the Munson curve on added volume).


----------



## yaps66

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Maybe I should start an "Oddiophile Club Thread" for everyone who loves music, but whose views don't always jive with traditional audiophile thinking. I'm gonna have to refine this idea. I don't want to go off half-cocked and burn the idea...🤔💡


You could try the Watercooler thread for a different take on music and iems. My two favourite threads on head-fi is this Earbuds and the Watercooler.


----------



## gylyf

Hello, bud lovers! After my last post inquiring about the FF3, I ended up ordering a pair and have been listening to the hell out of them. They feel like a great complement to my Shozy BK and Newbsound 32x and I'm so glad I gave them a shot.

I'm trying to content myself with what I have, but curiosity is getting the better of me and I wanted to ask you all for a recommendation. My very favorite sound in music is the acoustic guitar. I love the way the instrument sounds with my existing buds, especially the BK and the FF3, but I'm curious to hear from people here if there's a bud you'd recommend above all others for acoustic music. I'm willing to entertain some TOTL recommendations.

Also, does anyone have a source for those plastic prophylactics some buds ship with to protect the plug?

Thanks!


----------



## ttorbic

gylyf said:


> Hello, bud lovers! After my last post inquiring about the FF3, I ended up ordering a pair and have been listening to the hell out of them. They feel like a great complement to my Shozy BK and Newbsound 32x and I'm so glad I gave them a shot.
> 
> I'm trying to content myself with what I have, but curiosity is getting the better of me and I wanted to ask you all for a recommendation. My very favorite sound in music is the acoustic guitar. I love the way the instrument sounds with my existing buds, especially the BK and the FF3, but I'm curious to hear from people here if there's a bud you'd recommend above all others for acoustic music. I'm willing to entertain some TOTL recommendations.
> 
> ...


I'd recommend the Serratus or Alpha from @tgx78. TOTL timbre, tuning, and stage. Instruments sound truly organic


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 16, 2022)

gylyf said:


> Hello, bud lovers! After my last post inquiring about the FF3, I ended up ordering a pair and have been listening to the hell out of them. They feel like a great complement to my Shozy BK and Newbsound 32x and I'm so glad I gave them a shot.
> 
> I'm trying to content myself with what I have, but curiosity is getting the better of me and I wanted to ask you all for a recommendation. My very favorite sound in music is the acoustic guitar. I love the way the instrument sounds with my existing buds, especially the BK and the FF3, but I'm curious to hear from people here if there's a bud you'd recommend above all others for acoustic music. I'm willing to entertain some TOTL recommendations.
> 
> ...



Having never heard the recommendations @ttorbic made, I can only give you some more mainstream recommendations. My favorite earbud for acoustic guitar based music is the Symphonio Dragon 3 on which that kind of music sounds simply sublime. The guitar's each and every note sounds vibrantly realistic and well formed. The timbre, note weight, and presentation are all dead on. The Dragon 3s are quite expensive so I will also say that the Yincrow RW-3000s are also an incredible match with acoustic guitar, lending a depth and musicality that's pretty addictive.

As for the plastic protectors you're asking about, are you refering to the little plastic cylinders that are open at one end that manufacturers use as sheaths to cover the metal tip that actually goes inside a headphone jack on a source for example?


----------



## gylyf

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Having never heard the recommendations @ttorbic made, I can only give you some more mainstream recommendations. My favorite earbud for acoustic guitar based music is the Symphonio Dragon 3 on which that kind of music sounds simply sublime. The guitar's each and every note sounds vibrantly realistic and well formed. The timbre, note weight, and presentation are all dead on. The Dragon 3s are quite expensive so I will also say that the Yincrow RW-3000s are also an incredible match with acoustic guitar, lending a depth and musicality that's pretty addictive.


Thank you!


JAnonymous5150 said:


> As for the plastic protectors you're asking about, are you refering to the little plastic cylinders that are open at one end that manufacturers use as sheaths to cover the metal tip that actually goes inside a headphone jack on a source for example?


Yep, those are the ones. I keep misplacing the ones that've come with my buds and I like to have them handy when I'm traveling.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

gylyf said:


> Yep, those are the ones. I keep misplacing the ones that've come with my buds and I like to have them handy when I'm traveling.



Unfortunately I don't have a source aside from buying new cables which seems excessive just to get one of those plastic tip sheaths lol! TBH, I don't use them anyways. When I get back home I can look to see if I have some saved (I think I do). What size(s) are you looking for?


----------



## ian91 (Sep 16, 2022)

gylyf said:


> Hello, bud lovers! After my last post inquiring about the FF3, I ended up ordering a pair and have been listening to the hell out of them. They feel like a great complement to my Shozy BK and Newbsound 32x and I'm so glad I gave them a shot.
> 
> I'm trying to content myself with what I have, but curiosity is getting the better of me and I wanted to ask you all for a recommendation. My very favorite sound in music is the acoustic guitar. I love the way the instrument sounds with my existing buds, especially the BK and the FF3, but I'm curious to hear from people here if there's a bud you'd recommend above all others for acoustic music. I'm willing to entertain some TOTL recommendations.
> 
> ...




They've been mentioned already but the best I have heard for acoustic music (and instrumental music in general) is the Serratus and the Alpha. The Alpha provides greater noteweight and better imaging but less transparency and subbass extension (note I have an early version that is less bass accented so my comparison may be off slightly). I would say the Alpha sounds more 'natural' for guitar with a little hint of warmth and is more midfocused. Serratus gets you further with lower power sources. You can't go wrong with either provided you have the right source/amp.


----------



## samandhi

gylyf said:


> Hello, bud lovers! After my last post inquiring about the FF3, I ended up ordering a pair and have been listening to the hell out of them. They feel like a great complement to my Shozy BK and Newbsound 32x and I'm so glad I gave them a shot.
> 
> I'm trying to content myself with what I have, but curiosity is getting the better of me and I wanted to ask you all for a recommendation. My very favorite sound in music is the acoustic guitar. I love the way the instrument sounds with my existing buds, especially the BK and the FF3, but I'm curious to hear from people here if there's a bud you'd recommend above all others for acoustic music. I'm willing to entertain some TOTL recommendations.
> 
> ...


I'm seeing some good recommendations here. As for me I would wholeheartedly recommend the Moondrop Chaconne. These don't have the warmth that others are talking about. Rather, they have absolute clarity, and you can hear every pluck, and harmonic, and movement of fingers on the frets, and a mouse breathing... hehe


----------



## Ronion

@JAnonymous5150, the theoretical advantage of using high impedance voicecoils is better control over the voicecoil and thus diaphragm.  More turns of wire, more motor strength.  Similar to using Aluminum voicecoils.  Aluminum gives you the lightest weight per conductivity so they outperform copper in that regard.  You can get more turns, more strength, and retain a lower impedance.  FiiO uses aluminum as does the Tingo TG38 and many other buds.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> @JAnonymous5150, the theoretical advantage of using high impedance voicecoils is better control over the voicecoil and thus diaphragm.  More turns of wire, more motor strength.  Similar to using Aluminum voicecoils.  Aluminum gives you the lightest weight per conductivity so they outperform copper in that regard.  You can get more turns, more strength, and retain a lower impedance.  FiiO uses aluminum as does the Tingo TG38 and many other buds.



Yeah, I know. That's a good explanation of it. Nice and succinct. Did I get drunk and ask about this without remembering? LOL


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Yeah, I know. That's a good explanation of it. Nice and succinct. Did I get drunk and ask about this without remembering? LOL


LOL—nope.  It was @dinodogJR.  I’m not sure why I thought it was you.  I am sober LOL


----------



## qua2k

gylyf said:


> Yep, those are the ones. I keep misplacing the ones that've come with my buds and I like to have them handy when I'm traveling.


Pack of 10 on the 'zon for 3.5mm,

https://a.co/d/awBcuqz


----------



## o0genesis0o

yaps66 said:


> You could try the Watercooler thread for a different take on music and iems. My two favourite threads on head-fi is this Earbuds and the Watercooler.



Watercooler is an expensive place to hang out, with all the talk about the bird and the jewel   



Ronion said:


> @JAnonymous5150, the theoretical advantage of using high impedance voicecoils is better control over the voicecoil and thus diaphragm.  More turns of wire, more motor strength.  Similar to using Aluminum voicecoils.  Aluminum gives you the lightest weight per conductivity so they outperform copper in that regard.  You can get more turns, more strength, and retain a lower impedance.  FiiO uses aluminum as does the Tingo TG38 and many other buds.



So if all things are identical (e.g., different versions of Beyerdynamic Dt990), higher impedance drivers tend to expose better resolution across the frequency range?


----------



## gylyf (Sep 16, 2022)

qua2k said:


> Pack of 10 on the 'zon for 3.5mm,
> 
> https://a.co/d/awBcuqz


Awesome, thanks! Can't lie - it would not have occurred to me to use that combination of words to search for them...

@ttorbic @JAnonymous5150 @ian91 @samandhi - thank you all for the recommendations, lots to consider! 👍🏼


----------



## mt877 (Sep 16, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Thanks for your sharing!
> 
> To my ears the Super One (100ohm bio) driver for the M2s Pro is similar to the 150Ti they use in the ST10S B&G, but is overall a bit more balanced. Really, if you don't mind a boosted pina gain, all of their drivers are pretty top notch IMO.


I just received the M4 Super One drivers today and man, they deliver the goods! Thanks to you I don't even have to describe how they sound because you already nailed it.

Now it's just wait for more feedback / impressions from the guys waiting on their M4 deliveries.

Edit: Damn, been extremely busy with work this week and now I have to read plenty of pages to catch back up.


----------



## dinodogJR (Sep 16, 2022)

Ronion said:


> LOL—nope.  It was @dinodogJR.  I’m not sure why I thought it was you.  I am sober LOL


@Ronion I read that i do think you are replied to my High Impedance Lower price earphones vs Low Impedance Premium Earphones.
As i read from article about High Impedance with  'more turns of wires' create the higher density so the sound resolution would be higher.

Now there's Aluminum vs Copper voicecoils where _Lower Impedance form by Aluminum voicecoils_ could achieve the Similar resolution compared to _Higher Impedance form by Copper voicecoil._

Now the final thing is their shell material built, design aesthetic and price wise from both sides.
As a consumer just knowing our cash are paying for the aesthetic design if we are opt for the Premium earphones.

May I conclude the higher impedance ohm with "lower quality built & looks" is possible to achieve the overall sound quality from a Premium Earphones?
Yinman 600 = Yinrow RW3000 as a sample.
Both are in Bright & warm sound signature as i read from you guys input despite the premium material built quality in RW3000.


----------



## Ronion

dinodogJR said:


> May I conclude the higher impedance ohm with "lower quality built & looks" is possible to achieve the overall sound quality from a Premium Earphones?


yes, but you’ll probably have to DIY.  You can definitely DIY a premium 300-600Ohm bud for under $50 USD.  You may have to go a bit over if you opt for a metal shell.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> I just received the M4 Super One drivers today and man, they deliver the goods! Thanks to you I don't even have to describe how they sound because you already nailed it.
> 
> Now it's just wait for more feedback / impressions from the guys waiting on their M4 deliveries.
> 
> Edit: Damn, been extremely busy with work this week and now I have to read plenty of pages to catch back up.


Mine have been sitting in my local post office for 2 days now... grrrr


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Mine have been sitting in my local post office for 2 days now... grrrr


So close, yet so far... Hopefully you get them this weekend.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> So close, yet so far... Hopefully you get them this weekend.


Me too.... Thing is that I can walk there, it is so close. Also funny thing, the USPS tracking has not updated since the 13th, but AE shows them as being IN my hometown at the "local delivery service"... Heck, I didn't even receive ANY mail today (which is almost unheard of nowadays)... LOL

Anyhow, I am excited to get them, but since I already have the M2s Pro, and I suspect they sound similar/same, I have patience this time around.


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Me too.... Thing is that I can walk there, it is so close. Also funny thing, the USPS tracking has not updated since the 13th, but AE shows them as being IN my hometown at the "local delivery service"... Heck, I didn't even receive ANY mail today (which is almost unheard of nowadays)... LOL
> 
> Anyhow, I am excited to get them, but since I already have the M2s Pro, and I suspect they sound similar/same, I have patience this time around.


The "local delivery service" is a very loose description. That might mean the package is at the USPS main distribution center waiting to be sorted for delivery to your local post office, or it's at your local post office waiting for final delivery.

Since I've only recently gotten into Smabat buds, I don't have past generations of their buds to compare the M4 to except for the ST10S B&G buds. Their M4 modular design is tops compared to their previous designs. From my impressions, the accessory drivers I got do sound good in their own ways. The highend overly brightness which everyone mentions doesn't seem prevalent to me with any of the drivers I have. I hope that guys like yourself that are more seasoned with the Smabat brand will find positive differences in the sound profiles of the M4 drivers vs their earlier models. Then it could be a win / win in both modular design and sound quality. I guess we'll find out soon enough.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> I just received the M4 Super One drivers today and man, they deliver the goods! Thanks to you I don't even have to describe how they sound because you already nailed it.
> 
> Now it's just wait for more feedback / impressions from the guys waiting on their M4 deliveries.
> 
> Edit: Damn, been extremely busy with work this week and now I have to read plenty of pages to catch back up.



My girl tells me that a package arrived today for me which I believe should by my M4s and the Super Ones along with all the drivers a modules I purchased to go with the M4.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> The "local delivery service" is a very loose description. That might mean the package is at the USPS main distribution center waiting to be sorted for delivery to your local post office, or it's at your local post office waiting for final delivery.
> 
> Since I've only recently gotten into Smabat buds, I don't have past generations of their buds to compare the M4 to except for the ST10S B&G buds. Their M4 modular design is tops compared to their previous designs. From my impressions, the accessory drivers I got do sound good in their own ways. The highend overly brightness which everyone mentions doesn't seem prevalent to me with any of the drivers I have. I hope that guys like yourself that are more seasoned with the Smabat brand will find positive differences in the sound profiles of the M4 drivers vs their earlier models. Then it could be a win / win in both modular design and sound quality. I guess we'll find out soon enough.


Yeah, I know it can be generic in some cases. I have ordered enough to this point that I am starting to get to know AE tracking's "jargon", and comparing to the USPS (last) update, they are locally to me, awaiting delivery. No biggie either way, they are still way earlier than estimated date of Sept. 29, so all is well (still)... 

Well, I wouldn't really call them overly bright, because if you take away that spike in 2-3K region, the treble is fairly normal to warm (or a bit veiled) to my ears, and actually needs boosting. In my experience, and having had head gear for lots of years (I am in my 50s), boosting the "shouty" region is really a lazy way of offering (the perception of) clarity without having to tune the treble region well, which (in their defense) IS one of the most difficult parts to tune right. There are other advantages/disadvatages to boosting this region also, but not pertinent to this discussion (as you probably know well). 

Even if it sounds JUST like the M2s Pro, I will consider it a win because they indeed look a LOT easier to deal with. With as small (and cheap) as the small connectors appear/feel, on the M2s Pro shells and drivers (at least I don't have to solder every time I want to switch out), I have become afraid to switch them out, even though I really like "driver rolling" on these to compare. This will make it much easier. Having said that, I hope your right, and that there are some new nuances to be gleaned from the new model. That would be icing on the cake IMO... 

I DO hope that they invest in into this (modular) ecology more than they have in the past by adding more drivers in the future (and much different tuning). I think they really could have something here if they would make many tunings (rather than very similar as they currently are) of these modular drivers. I DO like the idea of having an IEM and BT module also, but I would hope they improve the IEM portion to sound better (from what I am reading). Or maybe even have many sets of those also. I mean if they have a multitude of tuning options for these, there might be less reason to invest in many different pairs of earbuds.  Just some thoughts!


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> My girl tells me that a package arrived today for me which I believe should by my M4s and the Super Ones along with all the drivers a modules I purchased to go with the M4.


That could (potentially) be great news! Refresh my memory, you got all of the drivers with the M4 right? Did you also get the filters?


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 17, 2022)

dinodogJR said:


> Yinman 600 = Yinrow RW3000 as a sample.
> Both are in Bright & warm sound signature as i read from you guys input despite the premium material built quality in RW3000.



IMO it's not as simple as higher impedance equals better resolution because as you mentioned before there are a lot of other variables at play that would have to be controlled for to make that statement true.

Then beyond that you have to ask yourself if you have the amplification power to actually provide proper power (and current) to a high impedance earbud to actually allow it to perform at a level that will give you that increased resolution.

For example a high impedance, low sensitivity bud like the Yinman 600s are basically a desktop earbud because of the power they require to reach maximum perormance. I have used mine with powerful portable sources and can get the volume, but while the loss of detail and control isn't huge it is noticeable. So you also have to ask yourself if you're looking for a pair of buds with such extreme requirements that potentially limit their mobility or performance if used in mobile or portable applications.

Now for the comparison you just drew between the Yinman 600s and the RW-3000s. I own and like both and have amps that are more than powerul enough to get the best out of them. Others here may disagree with this, but even at their best, I don't find the 600s to be as resolving/detailed as the RW-3000. It is still a detailed earbud for sure, but I think the RW-3000 and a few others I own or have heard best it. The 600s are also significantly warmer than the RW-3000s. I would liken it to the difference between the Sennheiser HD600/HD650 and the HD660S. The former being known for warmth, the later being widely acknowledged as quite a bit less warm while still having some warmth to its mid range in particular.

Unfortunately, in this hobby you often can't draw reliable a = b comparisons like that because there are just too many variables at play. As you listen to more and more transducers from all mediums you'll come to understand what I mean.

When giving advice or making suggestions I try to keep things as simple as possible, but oversimplifying can lead to significant disappointment so I promise you I'm not just bringing this up to be complicated or pedantic. I'm using some of my scarce break time to say this because I don't want to see you fall into the trap of oversimplifying to the point where the extrapolations you're making no longer reflect the reality you'll eventually contend with.

I hope this helped rather than just made things complicated and I'll try to keep an eye out for follow up questions.

P.S. Sorry for any typos. I typed this in a rush on a phone with my caveman thumbs! 😜

Edit: I should add that, for me personally, really high impedance/low sensitivity buds have limited usefulness. I do love earbuds and I do occasionally use them while sitting as my desk or near a powerful desktop amp, but for the most part I like the freedom earbuds provide by unblocking my ear canals and being driveable from a powerful portable amp, combo, or DAP. I own a few pairs of 600ohm buds (though 1 was free and another purchased as part of a lot) and would potentially buy others if I thought they offered something exceptional that I couldn't get elsewhere. I also have high impedance drivers for DIYing as well. That said, for the most part from here on out I will likely be sticking to buds 300-400ohms (and that aren't of low sensitivity) and below because they fit the use cases that I love earbuds for. Obviously that may not apply to you at all, but I figured it might be useful to explain. Cheers!


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Now for the comparison you just drew between the Yinman 600s and the RW-3000s. I own and like both and have amps that are more than powerul enough to get the best out of them. Others here may disagree with this, but even at their best, I don't find the 600s to be as resolving/detailed as the RW-3000. It is still a detailed earbud for sure, but I think the RW-3000 and a few others I own or have heard best it. The 600s are also significantly warmer than the RW-3000s. I would liken it to the difference between the Sennheiser HD600/HD650 and the HD660S. The former being known for warmth, the later being widely acknowledged as quite a bit less warm while still having some warmth to its mid range in particular.


Were you thinking of me when you mentioned others not agreeing where the Yinmans were concerned? LOL 

It's all good, but I am going to surprise you here. I don't disagree with what you are saying at all. The RW3000 are indeed more resolving/detailed...... BUT... at the expense of being bright and a bit analytical (thinner, but certainly not thin, only in comparison to the Yinman). The good mid bass hump on the R3K helps make up for this and adds some musicality to the mix IMO. Where the Yinman are warm, but detailed; more detailed than any set that is this warm has a right to be (this is where the shocker comes in). I love a set that can sort of straddle either category: anaylitcal, or musical, and I find the Yinman can do both to a point (leaning more towards musical). Where the RW3000 can also do both but lean more towards analytical w/some fun factor (or musical). 

Having said that, I also have some buds that would best the Yinman 2.0 600 where resolution and details are concerned, but they are also not near as good at being all-rounders IMO. In all honesty, any bud would be hard pressed to be more resolving/detailed than the RW3000 (they are out there, but there aren't too many to this point). 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> Unfortunately, in this hobby you often can't draw reliable a = b comparisons like that because there are just too many variables at play. As you listen to more and more transducers from all mediums you'll come to understand what I mean.


Amen brother, and well said. It is tough enough trying to convey all aspects of what you are hearing so that others might benefit from that knowledge, but then to try and compare more than one set with the same difficulties becomes very difficult at best. At one point on here @WoodyLuvr almost stopped giving ANY sort of recommendations because some nasty people decided to PM him with nasty messages because they didn't like the sound of his recommendations at all (how petty/immature/unrealistic/ignorant can one be?). 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> P.S. Sorry for any typos. I typed this in a rush on a phone with my caveman thumbs! 😜


I would expect better from you at this point.   

Seriously though, I have no idea how you can convey all the "book" type posts that you have been known to do using a small phone. I have a hard enough time using a full keyboard to do the same. Kudos to you for achieving that!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Were you thinking of me when you mentioned others not agreeing where the Yinmans were concerned? LOL
> 
> It's all good, but I am going to surprise you here. I don't disagree with what you are saying at all. The RW3000 are indeed more resolving/detailed...... BUT... at the expense of being bright and a bit analytical (thinner, but certainly not thin, only in comparison to the Yinman). The good mid bass hump on the R3K helps make up for this and adds some musicality to the mix IMO. Where the Yinman are warm, but detailed; more detailed than any set that is this warm has a right to be (this is where the shocker comes in). I love a set that can sort of straddle either category: anaylitcal, or musical, and I find the Yinman can do both to a point (leaning more towards musical). Where the RW3000 can also do both but lean more towards analytical w/some fun factor (or musical).
> 
> ...



Actually, I figured you might agree! I was thinking that @WoodyLuvr might not. You're definitely right about the RW-3000s being brighter and more analytical while retaining a touch of warmth and musicality. You're also right that the 600s are more detailed than a bud that warm would normally be. 

Either way it was that brightness with a touch of musicality that initially caused me to make the Grado comparison and, thus, the suggestion.

BTW, by referring to my posts as book-like are you trying to gently tell me I type/talk too much? I can stop you know...🥺


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Either way it was that brightness with a touch of musicality that initially caused me to make the Grado comparison and, thus, the suggestion.


The same thought occurred to me also. Though IIRC, I think you called it correctly, that the RW3000 actually have a bit more quantity of bass than most of the Grado "house" tuning (obviously there are exceptions to this rule). 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> BTW, by referring to my posts as book-like are you trying to gently tell me I type/talk too much? I can stop you know...🥺


Well, we both know that you AND I are both pretty talkative from @mt877's post about who has the most posts for the month (which BTW you and I are top 2 still ROFL). 

Not at all though. I was just surprised that someone can write so much (sharing impressions and what-not) using JUST a phone. That is pretty difficult to do. I will use my phone when I don't have much to say, but there is no way I could share all the impressions/suggestions you have only using that (imprecise) phone keyboard.


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Well, we both know that you AND I are both pretty talkative from @mt877's post about who has the most posts for the month (which BTW you and I are top 2 still ROFL).


Ha, maybe I should have never brought that to light. You know I meant it all in good fun, not to thwart your abundant creative and thoughtful forum messages. Have fun, learn, educate, and write good short stories, essays, poems or novels, we love them all.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> The same thought occurred to me also. Though IIRC, I think you called it correctly, that the RW3000 actually have a bit more quantity of bass than most of the Grado "house" tuning (obviously there are exceptions to this rule).
> 
> Well, we both know that you AND I are both pretty talkative from @mt877's post about who has the most posts for the month (which BTW you and I are top 2 still ROFL).
> 
> Not at all though. I was just surprised that someone can write so much (sharing impressions and what-not) using JUST a phone. That is pretty difficult to do. I will use my phone when I don't have much to say, but there is no way I could share all the impressions/suggestions you have only using that (imprecise) phone keyboard.



It's funny, buy when I'm home around my laptop I almost never come on here. Most of the time I cruise head-fi when I'm chillin' or have boredom related downtime lol! I think I have accessed head-fi on my laptop while actually signed in a grand total of 2 maybe 3 times.

It's also worth noting that my girlfriend says I type super fast on my phone. I don't know how true that is (maybe she's just slow lol), but that's what she says FWIW.

My phone is definitely my primary Internet cruising device. My laptop is mostly used for maintaining my NAS, music collecting, downloading, and listening, and working on my latest recordings and such. For the most part my laptop time is all business...


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Ha, maybe I should have never brought that to light. You know I meant it all in good fun, not to thwart your abundant creative and thoughtful forum messages. Have fun, learn, educate, and write good short stories, essays, poems or novels, we love them all.


No, no. It is all good, and I would be ashamed if my posts were mostly consisting of one-word posts or the like. And, thank you for the complement BTW! I always try my best to help others when they ask (though sometimes I DO like to just chat about stupid stuff lol).

I tend to post more on this thread than others not only because I really love buds, but the people here are much easier to talk to than on some other threads. Head-Fi still has some of those "elitists" that it used to be known for, and those threads are full of (argumentative or passive aggressive) tension at the best of times; outright arguing at their worst. Here I feel relaxed and don't mind sharing my thoughts. I don't feel like someone is going to get nasty with me for sharing information (whether it be right or wrong) because it is only EVER meant to be helpful rather than "showing off" like some people tend to like to do. 

Anyhow, I am not sure if you ever got a chance to test with the M4, but have you had a chance to change out filters? If so, what are your thoughts on the differences and with which driver did they make the most difference? I would be very interested in hearing your impressions on them. I still haven't ordered them, but I may throw them in the cart if/when I order the rest of the drivers that I didn't this time around.


JAnonymous5150 said:


> It's funny, buy when I'm home around my laptop I almost never come on here. Most of the time I cruise head-fi when I'm chillin' or have boredom related downtime lol! I think I have accessed head-fi on my laptop while actually signed in a grand total of 2 maybe 3 times.
> 
> It's also worth noting that my girlfriend says I type super fast on my phone. I don't know how true that is (maybe she's just slow lol), but that's what she says FWIW.
> 
> My phone is definitely my primary Internet cruising device. My laptop is mostly used for maintaining my NAS, music collecting, downloading, and listening, and working on my latest recordings and such. For the most part my laptop time is all business...


I don't have a desktop, but I DO have a computer room or office which I sometimes hook up my laptop to the larger monitor. But normally I use a gaming laptop or a Surface Pro somewhere else in my house (on the couch while watching TV or listening to some head gear for instance). Rarely am I out and am able to get on Head-Fi. Most times if I am out, it is in some mechanical room, or boiler room, and don't get a good phone signal anyhow. So, I quit carrying my personal cell phone into these areas and just leave it out in my vehicle.

BTW! Out of curiosity (and this is for everyone also), when you order a set of buds, and have a choice of connectors which do you prefer? Normally I will get 2.5mm balanced. My DX300 has all three major connectors (3.5mm SE, 4.4mm and 2.5mm balanced), but even if I switch to another DAP, I find 2.5mm to be the most compatible for adapters to size ratio. For one, you can go from SE to balanced out of DAPs, but not the other way around. And having a 4.4mm and trying to adapt that down to 3.5mm SE requires a pretty sizeable/bulky adapter, where 2.5mm to 3.5mm SE is a pretty small (inline) adapter from my experience.


Spoiler: Some of my portable interconnects/adapters



The middle ones are some of my adapters, the top ones are some (not all) of my modular connectors.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 17, 2022)

samandhi said:


> No, no. It is all good, and I would be ashamed if my posts were mostly consisting of one-word posts or the like. And, thank you for the complement BTW! I always try my best to help others when they ask (though sometimes I DO like to just chat about stupid stuff lol).
> 
> I tend to post more on this thread than others not only because I really love buds, but the people here are much easier to talk to than on some other threads. Head-Fi still has some of those "elitists" that it used to be known for, and those threads are full of (argumentative or passive aggressive) tension at the best of times; outright arguing at their worst. Here I feel relaxed and don't mind sharing my thoughts. I don't feel like someone is going to get nasty with me for sharing information (whether it be right or wrong) because it is only EVER meant to be helpful rather than "showing off" like some people tend to like to do.
> 
> ...



I actually prefer 4.4mm pentaconn to 2.5mm, but my pick may also depend on what I'm buying it for and the bud itself. For instance, I recently chose 3.5mm on a bud because I am purchasing it to go with a specific DAC I own, the Fiio BTR3, that only has a 3.5mm output.

When it comes to balanced purchases the 4.4mm connector just feels so much sturdier than 2.5mm. This is probably influenced by the fact that the first DAP I bought with a balanced 2.5mm output was prone to letting plugs slip out of that output easily which led to the 2.5mm plug on my favorite cable at the time getting bent. I was pretty broke at the time so I didn't get a new cable for quite a while.

Thankfully now I have adapters and interconnects available to make pretty much any termination work in any situation. Some even terminated to outputs I don't even own ATM lol! 🤣

Edit: Also, the whole idea that you can't take single ended cables and run them balanced through an adapter, despite the fact that those adapters are being sold, is an important one. To anyone thinking about such a purchased, that's a quick way to short out your amplifier's balanced circuit! Great point bro!


----------



## Ronion

With all this talk about high impedance, usefulness, big money, and high resolution, I just wanted to throw this out here: The FiiO FF3 have a high Rez sound, low impedance, easy to drive, great bass (probably my favorite earbud bass), great midrange (again a favorite), a large soundstage (and again on a favorite list), an easy fit(YMMV), and I think they even look good.  Their treble is just a bit shy(depending on foams used), and their cable isn't the best though it's not horrible.  The price is right for sure.  If I could only afford one, it would be this one or my retune of the Tingo TG38--which can also be driven perfectly off of a typical 1v source.  You don't need big money or big amps with buds to have a tremendously satisfying sound.  The price has gone up on that Tingo ($17 USD) and retuning it is a bit of a danger, but it's very hard to beat as well.  The Tingo also have a great midrange that makes my list and a great treble that is smooth and sweet.  The soundstage is massive, but the bass is just okay after retuning.  Mediocre before the retune.  Nonetheless, for $20, it is unbelievable.  I wouldn't necessarily say that one of these is better than the other, but they do have a different set of assets.  It's a Marilyn Monroe vs. Sophia Loren situation.  I'm not sure which is which.  Just saying.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 17, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Now for the comparison you just drew between the Yinman 600s and the RW-3000s. I own and like both and have amps that are more than powerul enough to get the best out of them. Others here may disagree with this, but even at their best, I don't find the 600s to be as resolving/detailed as the RW-3000. It is still a detailed earbud for sure, but I think the RW-3000 and a few others I own or have heard best it. The 600s are also significantly warmer than the RW-3000s. I would liken it to the difference between the Sennheiser HD600/HD650 and the HD660S. The former being known for warmth, the later being widely acknowledged as quite a bit less warm while still having some warmth to its mid range in particular.





JAnonymous5150 said:


> Actually, I figured you might agree! I was thinking that @WoodyLuvr might not. You're definitely right about the RW-3000s being brighter and more analytical while retaining a touch of warmth and musicality. You're also right that the 600s are more detailed than a bud that warm would normally be.


I completely concur with your assessment of and the comparison between the Yinman 2.0 600 and the Yincrow RW-3000... a warmer tuning by nature generally means that you will lose something a little in the resolution department though this loss can have it's rewards... a smoother, more relaxing, and fatigue-free listening experience 



JAnonymous5150 said:


> Unfortunately, in this hobby you often can't draw reliable a = b comparisons like that because there are just too many variables at play. As you listen to more and more transducers from all mediums you'll come to understand what I mean.


Also concur. Well said and very true. I always encourage people to expand their transducer experience as it will help them better understand and correctly discover their preferred signature and make some surprising discoveries along the way.



samandhi said:


> Amen brother, and well said. It is tough enough trying to convey all aspects of what you are hearing so that others might benefit from that knowledge, but then to try and compare more than one set with the same difficulties becomes very difficult at best. At one point on here @WoodyLuvr almost stopped giving ANY sort of recommendations because some nasty people decided to PM him with nasty messages because they didn't like the sound of his recommendations at all (how petty/immature/unrealistic/ignorant can one be?).


It was totally 🥥!

That was an awfully strange period of time... happy that it has pretty much stopped now though I no longer maintain my flathead earbud god-tier list as a result of it... 😢oh well, life!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

WoodyLuvr said:


> I completely concur with your assessment of and the comparison between the Yinman 2.0 600 and the Yincrow RW-3000... a warmer tuning by nature generally means that you will lose something a little in the resolution department though this loss has it's rewards... a smoother, more relaxing, and fatigue-free listening experience
> 
> 
> Also concur. Well said and very true. I always encourage people to expand their transducer experience as it will help them better understand and correctly discover their preferred signature and make some surprising discoveries along the way.
> ...



I wasn't sure if you'd agree, but I wasn't positive you wouldn't agree with the Yinman 600-RW3000 comparison. It sure is nice to know we're all in basic agreement regarding that as it will hopefully make it easier for our friend in understanding differences between between recommendations.

It's terrible that people jumped on you because they weren't happy with purchases. When it comes down to it, its up to each one of us to do our due dilligence when researching product reviews and recommendations and to try to transfer that onus on to the person giving their subjective opinion as they try to help is complete BS. It's made even worse by the fact that you no longer keep your list because of it. I'm genuinely sorry to hear that, bro.

If anything, it just highlights the total lack of experience and understanding of how this kind of thing works on the part of the folks involved in messaging you. I'm glad it's in the past now and I for one would encourage you to keep that list going. 

When I was first looking at earbuds, before I was anything but a lurker on here, that list and several of your discussions and recommendations were immensely helpful to me in getting a better idea of what I was looking for and, more importantly, of which buds I should look at. I found that many, perhaps most, people often include little in the way of detail, reasons, or context behind their opinions or recommendations. Your posts seemed to surface again and again in searches I did as standouts for having useful details and info attached. So if I've never said it before, thank you very much for all the helpful info you dispersed into the community and eventually to me personally that helped me. 

I always value your opinions and views highly and it saddens me to think of an earbud thread/community without your voice and shared opinions to help shape it. You're one of the best, Woody! Cheers 👍😎🍻


----------



## ttorbic

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I wasn't sure if you'd agree, but I wasn't positive you wouldn't agree with the Yinman 600-RW3000 comparison. It sure is nice to know we're all in basic agreement regarding that as it will hopefully make it easier for our friend in understanding differences between between recommendations.
> 
> It's terrible that people jumped on you because they weren't happy with purchases. When it comes down to it, its up to each one of us to do our due dilligence when researching product reviews and recommendations and to try to transfer that onus on to the person giving their subjective opinion as they try to help is complete BS. It's made even worse by the fact that you no longer keep your list because of it. I'm genuinely sorry to hear that, bro.
> 
> ...


And you are also one of the best, @JAnonymous5150! I really appreciated your quick reply to my earlier request for an impression of your Rikubuds  I know it takes time to listen, analyse, and write a thoughtful response, so I'm thankful for your time! 

I shall one day share my thoughts about the Serratus and Alter Rider 1!


----------



## o0genesis0o

I'm working on the review of FF3 and Shanling UP4. Since some manufacturers have politely but firmly suggested that I take more photos, I decided to take my real camera out. Here are some eye candies (I hope) of some DIY buds that I am using now:

GEM002 (rebuilt GEM001) and GEM003 (tuned YD30 driver, metal shell, now with snazzy interchangeable plug cable)


----------



## JAnonymous5150

ttorbic said:


> And you are also one of the best, @JAnonymous5150! I really appreciated your quick reply to my earlier request for an impression of your Rikubuds  I know it takes time to listen, analyse, and write a thoughtful response, so I'm thankful for your time!
> 
> I shall one day share my thoughts about the Serratus and Alter Rider 1!



Aww shucks! 😊 You too, big guy! If I didn't like you so much I probably would've been able to ignore you lol! 😉

Edit: And I'll be looking forward to those impressions. I've been thinking about a tgxears purchase.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> I'm working on the review of FF3 and Shanling UP4. Since some manufacturers have politely but firmly suggested that I take more photos, I decided to take my real camera out. Here are some eye candies (I hope) of some DIY buds that I am using now:
> 
> GEM002 (rebuilt GEM001) and GEM003 (tuned YD30 driver, metal shell, now with snazzy interchangeable plug cable)



Nice pics! Those are some good looking buds, bro!


----------



## miroslav

That ridiculous DHL only shipping for my country has been finally updated after two years so I was able to order the B40 at 10 EUR again instead of 150 EUR. They were marked with _only 5 left_ notice when I was ordering them at the famous Aliexpress shop couple of days ago. I hope it relates only to the latest batch. It would be pity to see them going out of production.

I will try to fix the broken cable on my first B40 one day. I'm still keeping the drivers.





In the meantime, I have found a brand new and never used *Sony MH4 10C* in a drawer which came like 10 years ago with my old Sony phone. They are in mint condition and sound _fantastic_ for budget buds. Will also try to grab another pair of these somewhere online. They are at least on pair with the B40, probably slightly better.


----------



## jeejack

o0genesis0o said:


> I'm working on the review of FF3 and Shanling UP4. Since some manufacturers have politely but firmly suggested that I take more photos, I decided to take my real camera out. Here are some eye candies (I hope) of some DIY buds that I am using now:
> 
> GEM002 (rebuilt GEM001) and GEM003 (tuned YD30 driver, metal shell, now with snazzy interchangeable plug cable)


Nice work! Those metallic shells deserve better drivers.


----------



## yaps66 (Sep 17, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Having never heard the recommendations @ttorbic made, I can only give you some more mainstream recommendations. My favorite earbud for acoustic guitar based music is the Symphonio Dragon 3 on which that kind of music sounds simply sublime. The guitar's each and every note sounds vibrantly realistic and well formed. The timbre, note weight, and presentation are all dead on. The Dragon 3s are quite expensive so I will also say that the Yincrow RW-3000s are also an incredible match with acoustic guitar, lending a depth and musicality that's pretty addictive.
> 
> As for the plastic protectors you're asking about, are you refering to the little plastic cylinders that are open at one end that manufacturers use as sheaths to cover the metal tip that actually goes inside a headphone jack on a source for example?


I have bought on @JAnonymous5150 recommendations and they are always spot on!

I also own a bud made by @tgx78 so can also attest to how good they are though I have not heard either the Serratus or Alpha.  However I just purchased both on the recommendation of other head-fiers that I trust!


----------



## yaps66

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Yeah, I know. That's a good explanation of it. Nice and succinct. Did I get drunk and ask about this without remembering? LOL





Ronion said:


> LOL—nope.  It was @dinodogJR.  I’m not sure why I thought it was you.  I am sober LOL


This exchange is gold! Love it!  🤣 . Made my day!


----------



## FranQL (Sep 17, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> IMO it's not as simple as higher impedance equals better resolution because as you mentioned before there are a lot of other variables at play that would have to be controlled for to make that statement true.
> 
> Then beyond that you have to ask yourself if you have the amplification power to actually provide proper power (and current) to a high impedance earbud to actually allow it to perform at a level that will give you that increased resolution.
> 
> ...




Totally agree, it's like having the world's best headset or IEM and these are not comfortable in your ears, or directly uncomfortable, at least I won't use them.

but, here I make a nuance... the mind, the brain, our obsessive-compulsive capacity plays a very important role:

Right now I'm taking my dog out with BTR3k and my 600 Ohm, and yes, it sounds spectacular, incredible... it's worth using it even knowing that it will scale more and better with a powerful amplifier... the question is will you be able to use it knowing that it can sound even better?

I can, because it can sound a little better, but with BTR3k it's still my favorite sound bud.

In line with this need for power, the best of the best, I am no exception, so a few days ago I was looking at DAPs, which of course I am convinced that I "need" (or I think I need) the best and more powerful to get the most out of the hobby, it is a micro plus of sound that will make a difference (I laugh myself when writing it). So I looked at models, all from €1,000, and above €1,500 flagships all the way up to much higher even €3,000-4,000.

Well any of them covers my autosuggested need for power as a source for me, my mind told me this is your thing for this hobby, and they are... but, a quick look at the hardware put me on the ground, these super DAP megatolt They have the same specifications of an android phone from 4 years ago!!!!! in some models 7 or more... that is to say a level of performance... uhhhhh. Only a need for better sound, more power, or pure sound-oriented justifications can lead to buying them

If the technology is obsolete by definition in a short time, in these DAPs you are guaranteed a mediocre performance in much less time, and of course the need for a new and more fluid DAP.

So I skipped them.... I don't have a DAP tolt that satisfies me to listen to anything but €2000 is hard for me to earn LOL

In my opinion they should have TOLT specifications for hardware at the same level as they do for sound....


----------



## yaps66

samandhi said:


> BTW! Out of curiosity (and this is for everyone also), when you order a set of buds, and have a choice of connectors which do you prefer? Normally I will get 2.5mm balanced.
> [/spoiler]


My preference is 4.4.  While it has not happened to me yet, too many horror stories from head-fiers of the 2.5mm breaking on them causing knock-on damage to either iem or dap or both!  I can live with more chonky adapters.  They inspire more confidence!  YMMV of course!


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> In my experience, and having had head gear for lots of years (I am in my 50s), boosting the "shouty" region is really a lazy way of offering (the perception of) clarity without having to tune the treble region well, which (in their defense) IS one of the most difficult parts to tune right.



In my experience, IEMs can get away with slightly poor tuning if the treble extension is good enough. Case and point: Campfire Andromeda 2020. Without its extended and very well control treble “air”, it would not have that micro details and holographic imagine, and would just be a warm; slightly off IEM.

To think about it, “treble” is a very wide range of frequencies. There are many kinds of harshness in that region as well.

Still, I think ear gain around 3k is important. How much is a different question and seems to be determined in conjunction with the amount of lower midrange and midbass.   




JAnonymous5150 said:


> Unfortunately, in this hobby you often can't draw reliable a = b comparisons like that because there are just too many variables at play. As you listen to more and more transducers from all mediums you'll come to understand what I mean.



That’s why I break the A/B test into small elements. 

Still, sometimes I think many of us “audiophile” (me) need to get out of our bubble and get the impressions from casual listeners once in a while. We (I) can get too focused on small things and forget the overall picture. 

For example, I care about only resolution and staging, but it’s apparently that most casual listeners that I get feedback from recently have zero idea nor care nor appreciate those. They want crisp, clear, good bass (no, not dirty bass, even casual listeners seem to be able to recognise bad bass).



samandhi said:


> At one point on here @WoodyLuvr almost stopped giving ANY sort of recommendations because some nasty people decided to PM him with nasty messages because they didn't like the sound of his recommendations at all (how petty/immature/unrealistic/ignorant can one be?).



Jezz, what’s wrong with people?


jeejack said:


> Nice work! Those metallic shells deserve better drivers.



Thanks! Those PEEK+PU (?) drivers are surprisingly decent. In fact, they got better feedback from my colleagues than my 64 ohm Ti composite driver. Still, I want more. Perhaps some thing 300 ohm?


----------



## o0genesis0o

FranQL said:


> Totally agree, it's like having the world's best headset or IEM and these are not comfortable in your ears, or directly uncomfortable, at least I won't use them.
> 
> but, here I make a nuance... the mind, the brain, our obsessive-compulsive capacity plays a very important role:
> 
> ...



Perhaps VE megatron attached to a phone? 

I look for a DAP because the dongle+phone combo is kind of annoying in practice: get tangled, disconnecting, random crackling sound, etc.


----------



## FranQL (Sep 17, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Perhaps VE megatron attached to a phone?
> 
> I look for a DAP because the dongle+phone combo is kind of annoying in practice: get tangled, disconnecting, random crackling sound, etc.


I have megatron, but I only use it for buds and above 150 Ohm, for less impedance, more sensitive buds or IEM has a noise floor, it is not designed for this.

VE Megatron is the best value for money for Buds (IMO) hands down. But carrying it in your pocket... I don't think it's the best because of its size + the phone or dap, on the fly I will bet on btr7 or IFI go blue


----------



## o0genesis0o

FranQL said:


> I have megatron, but I only use it for buds and above 150 Ohm, for less impedance, more sensitive buds or IEM has a noise floor, it is not designed for this.
> 
> VE Megatron is the best value for money for Buds (IMO) hands down. But carrying it in your pocket... I don't think it's the best because of its size + the phone or dap, on the fly I will bet on btr7 or IFI go blue



If you have Android phone, I think BTR7 is a very good idea. LDAC or any fancy Apt-X codec produce very good sound quality. If you have iPhone, I would reconsider a bit. Personally, I hear a noticeable drop in separation and soundstage when using BTR5 with iPhone via AAC. Would BTr5 sound bad with iPhone? No, it's perfectly alright. But there is a noticeable gain with wired connection.


----------



## ttorbic

yaps66 said:


> I have bought on @JAnonymous5150 recommendations and they are always spot on!
> 
> I also own a bud made by @tgx78 so can also attest to how good they are though I have not heard either the Serratus or Alpha.  However I just purchased both on the recommendation of other head-fiers that I trust!


Nice, congrats! I'm pretty certain that you will enjoy them both


----------



## o0genesis0o

Spoiler: Fiio FF3 eye candies
















(Putting photos into spoiler tag to reduce bandwidth, as @WoodyLuvr explained)


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 17, 2022)

FranQL said:


> I have megatron, but I only use it for buds and above 150 Ohm, for less impedance, more sensitive buds or IEM has a noise floor, it is not designed for this.
> 
> VE Megatron is the best value for money for Buds (IMO) hands down. But carrying it in your pocket... I don't think it's the best because of its size + the phone or dap, on the fly I will bet on btr7 or IFI go blue



I own a couple expensive DAPs, but I freely admit that I mostly use them for local playback and I never use them for anything but music so security and the most up to date Android version isn't necessary. I even have a separate google account that I use only on my DAPs and for their music and absolutely nothing else so that if they were ever to get hacked/compromised there won't be credit cards, sensitive passwords, or other info attached to them.

A powerful dedicated DAP allows me to use a range of over ear headphones and high impedance earbuds on the go on the same device that I can then use sensitive IEMs on all without tying my phone up or unnecessarily draining my phone's battery. A dedicated DAP is as close as you can get to the abilities of a desktop rig in a portable form.

Certain high power portable combos like the ifi Gryphon, Diablo, etc are beginning to change that, but even a combo that can run that range of transducers isn't as flexible because with our current tech they all drain your phone noticably faster and/or tie up your phone in ways that make using it for much else useless.

Thus, as a guy who uses his phone a lot for business, head-fi, and tons of other stuff ranging from important tasks to nonsense a good, powerful DAP that I use only for music (no internet cruising. period!) and take proper privacy/security precautions with remains my go to option for mobile listening. I'm also lucky enough to be in a financial position where I don't have to limit myself to a single form factor for mobile listening. I also use various dongles and portable combos for when I don't want two devices and/or for short trips where phone battery and calls aren't likely to matter much.

I have to admit that my recent experience with some non-Android DAPs has me looking for powerful, high end, non-Android players to potentially eventually replace my Android DAPs with versions based around purely local playback abilities. The problem is that then I would be unable to open the Qobuz app for instance and download a newly created playlist of brand new releases when I am on a secure network (home for example) for playback throughout the day and would instead limit me to playing only files in my current collection and specifically files on whatever SD card I have with me of that I have transfered to the DAPs internal memory.

So as you can see, even with a user who limits the features they use, an Android based DAP can be a very useful and cool thing for a music lover to have. Maybe relating all this will help you think through how you want to proceed with buying or not buying a player for yourself since you and I definitely share some of the same concerns when looking at these devices. I hope so anyways. Good luck and happy hunting!


----------



## FranQL (Sep 17, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I own a couple expensive DAPs, but I freely admit that I mostly use them for local playback and I never use them for anything but music so security and the most up to date Android version isn't necessary. I even have a separate google account that I use only on my DAPs and for their music and absolutely nothing else so that if they were ever to get hacked/compromised there won't be credit cards, sensitive passwords, or other info attached to them.
> 
> A powerful dedicated DAP allows me to use a range of over ear headphones and high impedance earbuds on the go on the same device that I can then use sensitive IEMs on all without tying my phone up or unnecessarily draining my phone's battery. A dedicated DAP is as close as you can get to the abilities of a desktop rig in a portable form.
> 
> ...



I currently use sony nw-a105, and it is very curious what you have commented on the google account or the importance you give to security, paranoid I do exactly the same.

this dap doesn't tick all the boxes, the battery life is ridiculously short and the power output is... let's leave it at what it is... so that's why I'm going with the more expensive daps...

Maybe as you said and also as recommend me @jeejack , a non-android DAP could be enough, sticking to local files and giving up the streaming music that I have become fond of over the years.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

FranQL said:


> Maybe as you said and also as recommend me @jeejack , a non-android DAP could be enough, sticking to local files and giving up the streaming music that I have become fond of over the years.



The a105's battery life is notoriously bad and, having demoed one myself, I agree that the power isn't great though I thought it sounded pretty good.

As for the non-Android DAPs, I'm not convinced yet that I want to give up the ability to use streaming services or even just to access the full catalog available with those services on my DAP just yet. Right now I'm just seeing what's out there as far as high end and powerful non-Android players just to see what options are available if I do decide to switch. 

Either way, I'm sure you'll figure it out. 👍


----------



## ttorbic (Sep 17, 2022)

Just picked up the VE Megatron, and while it works well with my MacBook, it does not play audio properly through my Google Pixel 6a. I had read online that some of the older Pixels were incompatible with the Megatron, but I had hoped that this would be addressed in 6a and Android 13. Apparently not...bit sad, but I'll most likely list it for sale on the classified ads page.

Edit: Fix found! Turning on the developer setting resolved the issue! Now I can use the Megatron with my Pixel 6a


----------



## mt877 (Sep 17, 2022)

samandhi said:


> No, no. It is all good, and I would be ashamed if my posts were mostly consisting of one-word posts or the like. And, thank you for the complement BTW! I always try my best to help others when they ask (though sometimes I DO like to just chat about stupid stuff lol).
> 
> I tend to post more on this thread than others not only because I really love buds, but the people here are much easier to talk to than on some other threads. Head-Fi still has some of those "elitists" that it used to be known for, and those threads are full of (argumentative or passive aggressive) tension at the best of times; outright arguing at their worst. Here I feel relaxed and don't mind sharing my thoughts. I don't feel like someone is going to get nasty with me for sharing information (whether it be right or wrong) because it is only EVER meant to be helpful rather than "showing off" like some people tend to like to do.
> 
> ...


I ordered the Super One driver and tuning damper set at the same time. Haven't received the tuning damper set yet.

I posted this graph before, now as a refresher... Factory tuning is M4+type3 damper. Looks like the dampers will be used to tune the upper bass through upper midrange region. It will be a game of finding the right mix of driver and damper to get the "perfect" individual tuning.

In all there are 24 possible driver and damper combinations to try. Then add different types of earbud foams to that mix and you have a smorgasbord of tuning possibilities that are a little mind boggling. It might seem daunting with all the combinations, but having some ability to tune the M4 to individual sound preferences gives the end user control that other earbuds don't offer.

Edit: It's a good thing Smabat made the M4 driver swap so easy. It would be a major pain and risk of damage if you had to solder / unsolder drivers like 1st gen.

40Ω LCP Composite + Type3 (factory tuning); + Type 1; + Type 2; + Type 4
ST10S B&G 150Ω Ti + Type3 (factory tuning); + Type 1; + Type 2; + Type 4
Super One 100Ω + Type3 (factory tuning); + Type 1; + Type 2; + Type 4
ST20Pro Black Coated BioFilm 100Ω + Type3 (factory tuning); + Type 1; + Type 2; + Type 4
ST20 Large Size LCP 50Ω + Type3 (factory tuning); + Type 1; + Type 2; + Type 4
In Ear Fullrange Balanced Armature + Type3 (factory tuning); + Type 1; + Type 2; + Type 4


----------



## Ronion

ttorbic said:


> Just picked up the VE Megatron, and while it works well with my MacBook, it does not play audio properly through my Google Pixel 6a. I had read online that some of the older Pixels were incompatible with the Megatron, but I had hoped that this would be addressed in 6a and Android 13. Apparently not...bit sad, but I'll most likely list it for sale on the classified ads page.


Sorry to hear that.

my maxed out portable rig is to take one of my portable amps attached to a dongle.  The FiiO e12 MB, A5, or my little bear B4-X.  I never have any compatibility issues and I’ve got all the power I could ever want.  The B4-X doesn’t have the greatest batter life, but it lasts long enough for my lunch break or a walk in the park.  The e12MB and A5 can last all day without a problem.  All these amps really compete with my desktop stuff though I admit they are not quite there.


----------



## mt877 (Sep 17, 2022)

FranQL said:


> I currently use sony nw-a105, and it is very curious what you have commented on the google account or the importance you give to security, paranoid I do exactly the same.
> 
> this dap doesn't tick all the boxes, the battery life is ridiculously short and the power output is... let's leave it at what it is... so that's why I'm going with the more expensive daps...
> 
> ...


Maybe you guys already saw this, but just in case you or others haven't, check out the High-Res Portable Daps comparison chart 2022. Everything there from Entry level to High-End Pro. The charts make it easy to find that DAP that satisfies the balance of operating system, specific DAC, output connector type, output power and battery life. One other thing I like about the charts is that it shows the location of the output jacks. If you like your jacks at the bottom or at the top of a DAP, then you can look for that attribute as well.

Edited to include @FranQL's post.


----------



## dinodogJR (Sep 17, 2022)

You guys are such a treasurerable gangs for my questions with analytical informations. Didn't expected many of you are willing to spent so much effort trying to describe the technical parts between _High impedance Lower cost Earphones _vs _Low impedance Premium Earphones_. I can't thankful enough for you guys time to refresh your memories and sharing the most accurate impressions from the experience.

Yes, i agree the transducer is the secret to unlock our hearing ability and appreciation in those details and resolution step by step.
Just that I never got the opportunity to try out Premium Model or Higher Ohm in Earphone category. And most of the shops are focused in TWS and IEM models for years.
Years ago i was hunted my first TWS. And i came across a few cubic design IEM that looks like China brand to me. The person in charge kindly asked me to try it out. I had to admit i have zero idea what was Campfire Audio at all in that time... Once i tried out a few of them then until the last one, the golden Solaris just sucked me into the new awe realm of sound. I asked the person in charge what was the price. I was highly interested with its massive sound can already replace as my Headphone without second thought. The price was mentioned and i took them down gently with a breath out~Phew~!  And i replied how nice you guys just left these openly on table and let anyone touch it without caring it could be "gone"... haha.

That's the whole new beginning i started to see High Premium earphones is not making fun of their price in its own reason.
Just need with the absolute luck to pick the right one at the right time.
The Best is someone know what they are talking bout, opening the new gate for us into their familiarity world of sound.
Currently I hope to get into one or two models from mid-budget earphones to appreciate the sound technology before i decided all the way up into one of the TOTL in the hunting journey.
RW3000, Yinman600, Fiio FF3...~ At the moment, it's Nice to know a few of these well-descriptive opinions from you guys.
ps : I don't quote the notes from everyone of you cause it would took out the entire thread to scroll down.
 I hope i am doing a favor in return for those who read and type on mobile phone with informative essay~. @JAnonymous5150  (I am typing this on my computer and took me with 30mins..already. )


----------



## mt877

dinodogJR said:


> I hope i am doing a favor in return for those who read and type on mobile phone with informative essay~. @JAnonymous5150  (I am typing this on my computer and took me with 30mins. )


My wife says to me, "It's time for dinner".
I reply, "Ok, I just need to complete this last sentence in a forum reply".
She says, "You've been typing that last sentence for the last 10 minutes" and walks away.
I reply, "I can't read, so I don't know what the heck I'm typing..." and softly chuckle.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> *Edit: Also, the whole idea that you can't take single ended cables and run them balanced through an adapter, despite the fact that those adapters are being sold, is an important one. To anyone thinking about such a purchased, that's a quick way to short out your amplifier's balanced circuit! Great point bro!*


Well, there IS this one (which I trust as the company has very good reputation, though most of the others I would NOT trust):


Spoiler: DDHifi DJ30A












WoodyLuvr said:


> I completely concur with your assessment of and the comparison between the Yinman 2.0 600 and the Yincrow RW-3000... a warmer tuning by nature generally means that you will lose something a little in the resolution department though this loss can have it's rewards... a smoother, more relaxing, and fatigue-free listening experience
> 
> 
> Also concur. Well said and very true. I always encourage people to expand their transducer experience as it will help them better understand and correctly discover their preferred signature and make some surprising discoveries along the way.
> ...


If it were me, I wouldn't worry about the outliers that come and go from here. You are ALWAYS going to have those that know little but profess much. And your experience is invaluable in this world IMHO. I REALLY enjoyed perusing your "God Tier List" when you kept it up. 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> I for one would encourage you to keep that list going.


This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!   


JAnonymous5150 said:


> I always value your opinions and views highly and it saddens me to think of an earbud thread/community without your voice and shared opinions to help shape it. You're one of the best, Woody! Cheers 👍😎🍻


Well said sir! All because someone was too immature to realize that describing sound is NOT an exact science (even using the terms that most have agreed are useful). 


FranQL said:


> I currently use sony nw-a105, and it is very curious what you have commented on the google account or the importance you give to security, paranoid I do exactly the same.
> 
> this dap doesn't tick all the boxes, the battery life is ridiculously short and the power output is... let's leave it at what it is... so that's why I'm going with the more expensive daps...
> 
> Maybe as you said and also as recommend me @jeejack , a non-android DAP could be enough, sticking to local files and giving up the streaming music that I have become fond of over the years.





JAnonymous5150 said:


> The a105's battery life is notoriously bad and, having demoed one myself, I agree that the power isn't great though I thought it sounded pretty good.
> 
> As for the non-Android DAPs, I'm not convinced yet that I want to give up the ability to use streaming services or even just to access the full catalog available with those services on my DAP just yet. Right now I'm just seeing what's out there as far as high end and powerful non-Android players just to see what options are available if I do decide to switch.
> 
> Either way, I'm sure you'll figure it out. 👍


If it is a security concern, there are ways around that also. I use mine locally for my music, but I also use it for Amazon Music. NOTHING else. I don't install any other apps. For now it works fine, but eventually I will have to update the Amazon app so that it doesn't become "non compatible". 

Having said that, there are sandbox apps that can keep your system essentially isolated from the internet even when your version of android is out of date and no longer receives security updates (much like Windows 10 sandbox). There is a lot about it at XDA Developers, but you can read a bit about it here. 

As for me, I think that some of the flagship models have caught up to cell phone tech where the software side is concerned. When you have a DAP that runs as fast as your (current(ish)) phone and has more RAM, storage memory, custom OSes, etc... one can relax and worry more about the hardware side of things. And with things such as quad DACs, FPGA-Masters (for jitter), dual batteries (subsequently leading to more max power output, lower output impedance than should be possible with such power, and longer battery power with said power output), system-wide bit perfect playback, THD+N and dynamic range and SNR being better than they have EVER been, there is no reason to spend on portable AND desktop anymore. These become the perfect AIO, IF you understand all the technology (and futurproofing) that has gone into these things.

Yes, the OS will eventually become outdated but that doesn't stop it from running. The way I deal with this is that I DON'T install anything but Amazon Music, Neutron, UAPP, and maybe a software volume app (adding an icon on the desktop to change volume if the volume wheel becomes unusable). I never update any apps (except Amazon Music) as long as there are no updates to the OS itself (ensuring they are always compatible), and I create a separate Google Play account that doesn't even have a CC attached to it. There is nothing there for anyone to hack even if they wanted to or could.  

I treat it exactly as it is; a standalone music player. Nothing more, nothing less. My phone does all the other stuff that I might want to keep safe. And if Amazon Music ever becomes outdated to where it won't work anymore on my DAP, I will just use my DAP as a USB DAC from my phone/PC/etc... I can even use reverse BT as a DAC from my phone or TV or PC, etc... 

But, I digress, and others won't/don't share my view and that is perfectly fine. I just know that I will have a great AIO setup for years to come, and I don't feel the need to spend any more money. So if you really think about it, I am spending less money in the long run because (as long as I keep the battery changed) it SHOULD last a lifetime. Well, MY lifetime... LOL


----------



## samandhi

dinodogJR said:


> You guys are such a treasurerable gangs for my questions with analytical informations. Didn't expected many of you are willing to spent so much effort trying to describe the technical parts between _High impedance Lower cost Earphones _vs _Low impedance Premium Earphones_. I can't thankful enough for you guys time to refresh your memories and sharing the most accurate impressions from the experience.
> 
> ps : I don't quote the notes from everyone of you cause it would took out the entire thread to scroll down.
> I hope i am doing a favor in return for those who read and type on mobile phone with informative essay~. @JAnonymous5150  (I am typing this on my computer and took me with 30mins..already. )


You are most welcome! It really does excite me to be a part of someone's discovery that makes them happy. So, while I DO do it for other people, there IS a bit of selfishness there too.   

Well, you could always put those quote behind a spoiler tag like this:



Spoiler: @dinodogJR






dinodogJR said:


> ps : I don't quote the notes from everyone of you cause it would took out the entire thread to scroll down.
> I hope i am doing a favor in return for those who read and type on mobile phone with informative essay~. @JAnonymous5150 (I am typing this on my computer and took me with 30mins..already. )










mt877 said:


> My wife says to me, "It's time for dinner".
> I reply, "Ok, I just need to complete this last sentence in a forum reply".
> She says, "You've been typing that last sentence for the last 10 minutes" and walks away.
> I reply, "I can't read, so I don't know what the heck I'm typing..." and softly chuckle.


ROFL You sure you live in a different house than mine?


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> ROFL You sure you live in a different house than mine?


LOL. Common everyday experiences are pretty funny.


----------



## digititus

Regarding DAP's. My super high end listening station is an old Android phone running Lineage OS connected to a variety of dongles (depending on 3.5/2.5/4.4 connection). This is my DAP  I don't have difficult to drive buds, so this works just fine.
On the move I have BTR5 which has plenty of power for IEM's and BT/LDAC connection sounds great. The phone already does everything required for playback, so a dedicated DAP is redundant for me.


----------



## FranQL

digititus said:


> Regarding DAP's. My super high end listening station is an old Android phone running Lineage OS connected to a variety of dongles (depending on 3.5/2.5/4.4 connection). This is my DAP  I don't have difficult to drive buds, so this works just fine.
> On the move I have BTR5 which has plenty of power for IEM's and BT/LDAC connection sounds great. The phone already does everything required for playback, so a dedicated DAP is redundant for me.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Well, there IS this one (which I trust as the company has very good reputation, though most of the others I would NOT trust):
> 
> 
> Spoiler: DDHifi DJ30A
> ...



You and I look at Android DAPs the same. I think we even agreed before that with proper care and some DIY skill they're essentially useful for as long as you desire. The fact that we use them exactly the same way (just music, nothing else) and having modding/DIY backgrounds is probably a big reason why.

I got great deals on my Kann Alpha and N8ii. They both sound great and are pretty powerful, but maybe even more importantly, the user experience on both makes you feel like they were designed in a thoughtful way without an eye towards generic, cost cutting strategies. I don't regret purchasing either of these and they have my high end DAP game locked down for the foreseeable future.


----------



## chavez

miroslav said:


> That ridiculous DHL only shipping for my country has been finally updated after two years so I was able to order the B40 at 10 EUR again instead of 150 EUR. They were marked with _only 5 left_ notice when I was ordering them at the famous Aliexpress shop couple of days ago. I hope it relates only to the latest batch. It would be pity to see them going out of production.
> 
> I will try to fix the broken cable on my first B40 one day. I'm still keeping the drivers.
> 
> ...



I noticed it today too so I immediately ordered Tingo TG38s . They are more expensive now but I hope they are worth it.


----------



## samandhi

digititus said:


> Regarding DAP's. My super high end listening station is an old Android phone running Lineage OS connected to a variety of dongles (depending on 3.5/2.5/4.4 connection). This is my DAP  I don't have difficult to drive buds, so this works just fine.
> On the move I have BTR5 which has plenty of power for IEM's and BT/LDAC connection sounds great. The phone already does everything required for playback, so a dedicated DAP is redundant for me.


I keep my Samsung Note 4 around and still use it as a transport now and again. This was the last Samsung phone that had both a replaceable battery and and IR blaster (being able to use it as a universal remote is a great feature that they took away). It still sounds very good with most of my earbuds too. While it doesn't have the best, or purest, or most fun sound, it is my belief that (newer) phones of nowadays quit trying to use good DACs and sound engineering (short of something like LG phones) 

[rant=on]Other than improving the CPU, RAM, size of memory, etc... It is my belief that they have gone backwards in phone tech. That Note 4 had it all. Which is probably WHY they took those features away; to either put them behind a pay-wall, or for better "planned obsolescence" [/rant]



Spoiler: This whole response is off topic, so I put it behind a spoiler for those that don't want to see it.






JAnonymous5150 said:


> You and I look at Android DAPs the same. I think we even agreed before that with proper care and some DIY skill they're essentially useful for as long as you desire. The fact that we use them exactly the same way (just music, nothing else) and having modding/DIY backgrounds is probably a big reason why.


I very much agree with your statement, and for the reasons why also. 

With the promotion/encouragement of DAPs (and phones too) being "disposable", most people don't even realize there are things that can be done to extend the longevity of such devices. It really is a shame because on the one hand, tech moves quicker to keep up with demand, but on the flip side those same companies get rich off of a (mostly) false premise; that you need to replace tech every 2 years or so. I liken this tech to laptops. Yes, you upgrade your laptop over the years, but how many years is one good for what you need it for? I submit that they are (most times) good for 10-15 years before they fall behind to the point that they aren't useable in today's tech. Why can't DAPs and phones be the same? Well, they could if the manufacturers weren't so greedy, and/or they wanted to TRULY be innovative. 

For instance, why couldn't they make CPUs modular in a phones/DAPs? They did/do it for PCs. Heck, even the graphics card is integrated into the CPU nowadays so you could upgrade both at the same time. I for one would rather incur the cost of having a "service" tech change it out, than shelling out $1k + every 2 years (or so) for a completely new device. All I'm saying is that the industry is rampant with greed, and most consumers don't know any better, or don't care for things to change. 

It is much like the whole idea of doing a "jailbreak" (on IOS), or "root" (on android). All you are doing when you achieve this is granting "administrative" privileges on those devices; something you have been able to do with PCs and MACs since the beginning. Now, I personally know people (we'll call them just "consumers" because of their lack of knowing any better) that think this is illegal and would get into trouble if they granted "jailbreak" or "root". Seriously! But this is the behavior that the companies WANT you to believe, so that they can control the longevity of the device through updates and etc... Oh, they will say it is for security purposes, but even were that true, are we (as a people) too stupid that we need a babysitter, that we can't manage any semblance of security, or aren't even given the choice?



JAnonymous5150 said:


> I got great deals on my Kann Alpha and N8ii. They both sound great and are pretty powerful, but maybe even more importantly, the user experience on both makes you feel like they were designed in a thoughtful way without an eye towards generic, cost cutting strategies. I don't regret purchasing either of these and they have my high end DAP game locked down for the foreseeable future.


I, for one am jealous of the A&K for having the ability (now) to act as a Roon hub.... As for the Cayin N8II, I am jealous because... have you heard that thing? LOL

You REALLY have some nice gear in those two DAPs, and I agree that you will not need anything (similar) for the foreseeable future. Those should not only power some heavy-duty head gear, but the specs ensure that they will also sound the best they can without introducing bad things into the chain. In other words, if a set sounds bad (with one, if not both) then it is probably not anything to do with the source, it is most likely the head gear just isn't very good.


----------



## digititus

FranQL said:


>


Yes - Just like this. The E1DA is all you need


----------



## ttorbic

ttorbic said:


> Just picked up the VE Megatron, and while it works well with my MacBook, it does not play audio properly through my Google Pixel 6a. I had read online that some of the older Pixels were incompatible with the Megatron, but I had hoped that this would be addressed in 6a and Android 13. Apparently not...bit sad, but I'll most likely list it for sale on the classified ads page.
> 
> Edit: Fix found! Turning on the developer setting resolved the issue! Now I can use the Megatron with my Pixel 6a


See edit for the solution! Initial impressions are pretty good, although something is lacking or different when compared to my iFi ZEN stack... But definitely a fine option for 50 USD!


----------



## samandhi

ttorbic said:


> See edit for the solution! Initial impressions are pretty good, although something is lacking or different when compared to my iFi ZEN stack... But definitely a fine option for 50 USD!


Congratz on your new shiny!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

My mini-review of the *tgxear Tantalus MMCX; 500ΩBery *by *@tgx78* has been posted over on the new *TGXEAR Discussion thread* *here*.


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> My mini-review of the *tgxear Tantalus MMCX; 500ΩBery *by *@tgx78* has been posted over on the new *TGXEAR Discussion thread* *here*.


Very nice! Congratz on your new shiny!


----------



## digititus

WoodyLuvr said:


> My mini-review of the *tgxear Tantalus MMCX; 500ΩBery *by *@tgx78* has been posted over on the new *TGXEAR Discussion thread* *here*.


The lack of clutter and dust on your desk is rather concerning. Enjoy!


----------



## mt877 (Sep 17, 2022)

@WoodyLuvr and @ian91, The Sound Signature chart you guys came up with is very nice. How exactly are you plotting the sound signature of buds and IEMs? I mean what are you doing to determine how to plot a sound signature? Are you taking FR measurements and interpreting the measurements a certain way to determine the graphical plot? Are you just using your ears to carefully listen to how an earbud or IEM sounds to you and then do a plot? I think since everybody hears differently that would not be feasible. Besides yourselves, how do others use your chart to plot a sound signature that would be consistent across several users plotting the same earbuds or IEMs? Do you have a tutorial or explanation on how you plot an earbud in your Sound Signature chart? I'm really intrigued.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> @WoodyLuvr and @ian91, The Sound Signature chart you guys came up with is very nice. How exactly are you plotting the sound signature of buds and IEMs? I mean what are you doing to determine how to plot a sound signature? Are you taking FR measurements and interpreting the measurements a certain way to determine the graphical plot? Are you just using your ears to carefully listen to how an earbud or IEM sounds to you and then do a plot? I think since everybody hears differently that would not be feasible. Besides yourselves, how do others use your chart to plot a sound signature that would be consistent across several users plotting the same earbuds or IEMs? Do you have a tutorial or explanation on how you plot an earbud in your Sound Signature chart? I'm really intrigued.


IMO, even if it isn't scientifically based, it is a tremendous way to graphically show how one might describe what they are hearing.


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> IMO, even if it isn't scientifically based, it is a tremendous way to graphically show how one might describe what they are hearing.


There must be a method to the madness… LOL


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> There must be a method to the madness… LOL



I don't know man. Have you ever talked/typed with @WoodyLuvr and @ian91 ? I'm not sure there's any room left for the method with that much madness involved...😜


----------



## qua2k

Figured I would give Toneking a try, have a pair of Viridis en route. No stopping the collection now.


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I don't know man. Have you ever talked/typed with @WoodyLuvr and @ian91 ? I'm not sure there's any room left for the method with that much madness involved...😜


Ah, nothing like a few mad geniuses in our midst to spread their mad methods around. Kinda goes with that crazy thing from some pages back...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

qua2k said:


> Figured I would give Toneking a try, have a pair of Viridis en route. No stopping the collection now.



I'm stoked to hear what you think! I'm a big fan of the Viridis, but I know there are others who don't share my affection for it. Please keep me/us posted on your impressions.

Congratulations on the buds! They're one of the coolest looking pairs around.


----------



## mt877

qua2k said:


> Figured I would give Toneking a try, have a pair of Viridis en route. No stopping the collection now.


Can't stop that train now, just keep it rollin'


----------



## qua2k

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I'm stoked to hear what you think! I'm a big fan of the Viridis, but I know there are others who don't share my affection for it. Please keep me/us posted on your impressions.
> 
> Congratulations on the buds! They're one of the coolest looking pairs around.


The Viridis have been on my eh maybe list for a while now. I guess I could not justify waiting on aliexpress, which really is not a valid excuse tbh. Stumbled on a decent priced used pair so why not. Honestly, I am not a fan of mmcx and I did give Smabot's M3 Pro a try so hoping these prove to be worthy to keep.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

qua2k said:


> The Viridis have been on my eh maybe list for a while now. I guess I could not justify waiting on aliexpress, which really is not a valid excuse tbh. Stumbled on a decent priced used pair so why not. Honestly, I am not a fan of mmcx and I did give Smabot's M3 Pro a try so hoping these prove to be worthy to keep.



The Viridis do some VERY special things with soundstage and the upper mid sweetness combined with extended treble and detail, IMO. When you find tracks/albums/artists that click with them, it's insane just how awesome they sound! I don't want to go too far into deacribing it because I don't want to influence your impressions, but I'm actually physically excited to see what you think!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Did anyone make it by CanJam SoCal today or is anyone going tomorrow? I just went by for a little bit to audition the DCA Expanse because I had a reserve slot and I made quick stops by the ZMF, Burson, and Wells Audio exhibits to try a few things out real quick, buy was unfortunately too busy to stay. I'm hoping to have more time to just go and wander tomorrow.

My wallet isn't thanking me though because, while I still actually prefer the sound of the Stealths, I clicked with the Expanse in the way I was hoping I might click with other TOTL open backs like the LCD-4&5 and Susvara but didn't.

The event could really use some earbuds though...😉


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> The event could really use some earbuds though...😉



Wait a couple years, @tgx78 might be there with new summit-fi buds.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Wait a couple years, @tgx78 might be there with new summit-fi buds.



That would be VERY cool to see!


----------



## tgx78 (Sep 18, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Did anyone make it by CanJam SoCal today or is anyone going tomorrow? I just went by for a little bit to audition the DCA Expanse because I had a reserve slot and I made quick stops by the ZMF, Burson, and Wells Audio exhibits to try a few things out real quick, buy was unfortunately too busy to stay. I'm hoping to have more time to just go and wander tomorrow.
> 
> My wallet isn't thanking me though because, while I still actually prefer the sound of the Stealths, I clicked with the Expanse in the way I was hoping I might click with other TOTL open backs like the LCD-4&5 and Susvara but didn't.
> 
> The event could really use some earbuds though...😉



Were you able to listen to the Utopia '22? I sold my stealth while back as I didn't have any amp to properly drive it, but I want to try the DCA Expanse now.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

tgx78 said:


> Were you able to listen to the Utopia '22? I sold my stealth while back as I didn't have any amp to properly drive it, but I want to try the DCA Expanse now.



Sadly no, I wanted to try it since people are saying it's a good improvement over the last Utopias which I just auditioned a few months ago. I wasn't super impressed by them, but some of the comments I have seen on the 2022s suggest that they may have fixed some areas I had a few niggles with.

I'll try again tomorrow if I get a chance, though it'd just be for funsies since I ordered the Expanse this evening so I certainly won't be buying anymore expensive headphones for a while. I'll report back to you if I get to check them out tomorrow for sure!


----------



## syazwaned

Fiio has released pricing for FF5. It is 150 usd. Quite expensive but if it is to be an improvement over FF3, it might worth it.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

syazwaned said:


> Fiio has released pricing for FF5. It is 150 usd. Quite expensive but if it is to be an improvement over FF3, it might worth it.



Count me in! With how good the FF3 is, there's no way my curiosity will leave me alone until I try it.


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Count me in! With how good the FF3 is, there's no way my curiosity will leave me alone until I try it.


Same, but I’m afraid I may have to ship them elsewhere…. Once my wife sees them: well, I’m gonna have some ‘splanin to do.


----------



## mt877

syazwaned said:


> Fiio has released pricing for FF5. It is 150 usd. Quite expensive but if it is to be an improvement over FF3, it might worth it.


Considering the EM5 was nearly double that, that's quite a bargain. If they do the prerelease pricing like they did for the FF3, then really no excuse not to get them, unless you need to read about listening impressions. Count me in for a blind buy.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 18, 2022)

tgx78 said:


> Were you able to listen to the Utopia '22? I sold my stealth while back as I didn't have any amp to properly drive it, but I want to try the DCA Expanse now.



By the way, I should have mentioned that if you enjoyed the Stealths I believe you'd also really enjoy the Expanse. It has a wider soundstage though not by as much as you might think considering the Stealth's soundstage is already pretty wide. The bass is elevated a bit more and a bit less tight and pin point accurate/articulate, but in a way that works very well with the overall presentation of an open back. Overall for as much as DCA went out of their
way to say that the Expanse isn't just an open back Stealth, it does have very similar voicing, presentation, and timbre, the differences lying mainly with minor tuning changes and the soundstage, layering, and in some ways the imaging, IMO. To me though, this is great. I absolutely love my Stealths and I expect the Expanse to be their perfect compliment much the same way my pair of ZMFs work.

To everybody else: Sorry, I promise, no more over ear off-topic BS! 😁


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> Same, but I’m afraid I may have to ship them elsewhere…. Once my wife sees them: well, I’m gonna have some ‘splanin to do.



Shall I give you my address now or later? 😉

Seriously though, I will likely be asking my girl to marry me soon, but the separate finances thing is something we both like. Then again, I'd like to think she would go on being cool with me spending as I see fit. I think she gets it pretty well because she has her own expensive hobbies and her own head gear collection. Oh well, we'll see I guess.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Sep 18, 2022)

Hi folks,

What do you think if a pair of earbuds require a certain type of foam to sound right, and the manufacturer has made that clear in disclaimer? You know, the same kind of situation as Sennheiser IExxx series that has special ear tips with built-in acoustic filters?


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Did anyone make it by CanJam SoCal today or is anyone going tomorrow? I just went by for a little bit to audition the DCA Expanse because I had a reserve slot and I made quick stops by the ZMF, Burson, and Wells Audio exhibits to try a few things out real quick, buy was unfortunately too busy to stay. I'm hoping to have more time to just go and wander tomorrow.
> 
> My wallet isn't thanking me though because, while I still actually prefer the sound of the Stealths, I clicked with the Expanse in the way I was hoping I might click with other TOTL open backs like the LCD-4&5 and Susvara but didn't.
> 
> The event could really use some earbuds though...😉


Was going to suggest that some actually like the Stelia better than the Utopia. Give those a listen. 

And if you are into planar the new CA Supermoon look worth hearing, along with the debuting DUNU Talos planar + BA (with a switch to turn on and off the BA). Just a couple things to try out. 


Ronion said:


> Same, but I’m afraid I may have to ship them elsewhere…. Once my wife sees them: well, I’m gonna have some ‘splanin to do.


Before @JAnonymous5150 stole my thought (or rather beat me to it lol) I was going to say to tell your wife you are getting them for me. I can take it, I have big shoulders...   


o0genesis0o said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> What do you think if a pair of earbuds require a certain type of foam to sound right, and the manufacturer has made that clear in disclaimer? You know, the same kind of situation as Sennheiser IExxx series that has special earths with built-in acoustic filters?


It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, unless they put those foams behind a huge paywall, or controlled the release of them to make them hard to get. On the other hand, longevity comes into question here. If they are discontinued and you have no way to replace those foams, then the buds become pretty useless... IMHO.


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Shall I give you my address now or later? 😉
> 
> Seriously though, I will likely be asking my girl to marry me soon, but the separate finances thing is something we both like. Then again, I'd like to think she would go on being cool with me spending as I see fit. I think she gets it pretty well because she has her own expensive hobbies and her own head gear collection. Oh well, we'll see I guess.


My wife is frugal—less so about my spending than her own.  She gets over it quick enough.  I just like to joke about it.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> What do you think if a pair of earbuds require a certain type of foam to sound right, and the manufacturer has made that clear in disclaimer? You know, the same kind of situation as Sennheiser IExxx series that has special earths with built-in acoustic filters?


I so picky with my tunings, every bud I have only sounds to my satisfaction with one particular foam.  I’m learning now that I need to tune brighter because they all get darker over time—at least initially.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Was going to suggest that some actually like the Stelia better than the Utopia. Give those a listen.
> 
> And if you are into planar the new CA Supermoon look worth hearing, along with the debuting DUNU Talos planar + BA (with a switch to turn on and off the BA). Just a couple things to try out.
> 
> ...


Ah Samandhi… you know how much I love you man?  In truth, I’d rather build you something than buy you something even though I know you weren’t saying I could buy it for you.  

You are spot on about the foams too.


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, unless they put those foams behind a huge paywall, or controlled the release of them to make them hard to get. On the other hand, longevity comes into question here. If they are discontinued and you have no way to replace those foams, then the buds become pretty useless... IMHO.


I'm asking because a pair of DIY that I am working on absolutely requires listeners to use silicone rings or at least donut foam. Any full foam would be too dark and muffled. Personally, I think it is unacceptable, but I want to hear how you guys think.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> My wife is frugal—less so about my spending than her own.  She gets over it quick enough.  I just like to joke about it.


Preaching to the choir brother! My wife throws a huge temper tantrum for about 1 hour, then it is totally forgotten about because, while I purchase some pretty costly things, she "nickles & dimes" us to death with all of her garage sales and flea markets. 

When she buys something new (to her), I always make her get rid of something else so that we don't become hoarders (she normally buys larger items rather than small stuff like head gear).


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Was going to suggest that some actually like the Stelia better than the Utopia. Give those a listen.
> 
> And if you are into planar the new CA Supermoon look worth hearing, along with the debuting DUNU Talos planar + BA (with a switch to turn on and off the BA). Just a couple things to try out.
> 
> ...



I have been on a planar kick lately, but not because I choose to like a specific driver type over another, but because, especially in the high end market, planars are dominating the best of the best right now. I love me some dynamic drivers, but no matter how many I audition I haven't found anything that bests my current lineup, especially my ZMFs, for me.

The SuperMoons are a great suggestion. Too bad I already have a pair! 😂 I am interested to see how the Talos come out, but I do believe that I'm done with the new purchases for a bit aside from maybe a few more buds I want to try and I'm still auditioning DACs to make sure I have my audio chain for the Stealths where I want it. This year has been a good year for me financially, but I also sold almost $25k worth of drum, hifi, and head gear specifically with the intent to go out and get the best of the best for my tastes and I think I've accomplished that over the last few months. The ride has been crazy fun!

Obviously, I'm still pretty new to buds so that's not done yet and I'm always down for a good budget find when I stumble upon one. 😁

@o0genesis0o As long as the foams are readily available on the market like HieGis or something or if you're just referring to a foam of the listener's choice then I'm fine with it. I don't currently have any earbuds that I listen to foamless except maybe the Sun Dice, but I'm experimenting with that one.

It'd be much like headphone manufacturers tuning their phones with their pads in mind. That only works if the manufacturer keeps the pads available or if a robust aftermarket supply is available from third party manufacturers. That's the caveat. Making an earbud that requires a certain foam to be useable and then not providing that foam in the long term is a quick way to alienate potential loyal customers, IMO and as @samandhi said, it makes the buds useless once the foams are toast.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> I'm asking because a pair of DIY that I am working on absolutely requires listeners to use silicone rings or at least donut foam. Any full foam would be too dark and muffled. Personally, I think it is unacceptable, but I want to hear how you guys think.



So are we to understand that you're DIYing with the intent to become a producer of earbuds for sale?

As for the rings/foams, I have no problem adding buds to my collection that need a ring, particular foam, or even a combination. Foams and rings are cheap and plentiful and for each bud I currently own I have eventually come to settle on a particular setup I like on it and then make sure I have ample stock.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Ah Samandhi… you know how much I love you man?  In truth, I’d rather build you something than buy you something even though I know you weren’t saying I could buy it for you.
> 
> You are spot on about the foams too.


You are very kind, and I would rather the same (you make, rather than buy). But mostly I enjoy reading and absorbing the (fantastic) knowledge that you share almost daily here. (this being the cool kids salute) 🖕  

On that note, I almost pulled the trigger in having you make me a set (you offered once before also), but @FranQL decided to do it because you were so busy moving (which BTW, I hope all went well on that front also).  Either way, I am super happy with the result, and listen to them daily and feel honored to have something made by any of the top DIYers that I know of. 


o0genesis0o said:


> I'm asking because a pair of DIY that I am working on absolutely requires listeners to use silicone rings or at least donut foam. Any full foam would be too dark and muffled. Personally, I think it is unacceptable, but I want to hear how you guys think.


Considering that the recommendation is that they be (almost) naked, I don't really see an issue with that. That would be a sort of unique tuning IMO. Most are tuned to be used with foams rather than without them.


----------



## ian91 (Sep 18, 2022)

mt877 said:


> @WoodyLuvr and @ian91, The Sound Signature chart you guys came up with is very nice. How exactly are you plotting the sound signature of buds and IEMs? I mean what are you doing to determine how to plot a sound signature? Are you taking FR measurements and interpreting the measurements a certain way to determine the graphical plot? Are you just using your ears to carefully listen to how an earbud or IEM sounds to you and then do a plot? I think since everybody hears differently that would not be feasible. Besides yourselves, how do others use your chart to plot a sound signature that would be consistent across several users plotting the same earbuds or IEMs? Do you have a tutorial or explanation on how you plot an earbud in your Sound Signature chart? I'm really intrigued.



Very good questions! Transducers are plotted purely by ear. Neither @WoodyLuvr nor I have measuring rigs. The method is far from an exact science but I believe it still has value. Although what we hear is related to a frequency graph there are qualities to the sound that such a graph can't convey and this is an attempt to embrace and organise the subjective. 

There are many ways that the reliability of observations might be an issue, particularly when more than one 'observer' contributes to the same comparison chart. What I will say is that, reassuringly, @WoodyLuvr and I have plotted sets blind and our central plot, the 'primary' position, have fallen in almost the exact same place on several occasions and nearly always fall in a reasonably acceptable proximity. 

As you can see, this is far from a scientific exercise and I think @WoodyLuvr and I are quick to admit to that. I see it as more of a way to encourage the use of (a) a system of description with (b) shared definitions. Not to limit or constrain but to bring us together in that subjective space.  

Maybe @WoodyLuvr has a different take on things and I look forward to hearing his perspective!


----------



## o0genesis0o (Sep 18, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> So are we to understand that you're DIYing with the intent to become a producer of earbuds for sale?
> 
> As for the rings/foams, I have no problem adding buds to my collection that need a ring, particular foam, or even a combination. Foams and rings are cheap and plentiful and for each bud I currently own I have eventually come to settle on a particular setup I like on it and then make sure I have ample stock.





samandhi said:


> You are very kind, and I would rather the same (you make, rather than buy). But mostly I enjoy reading and absorbing the (fantastic) knowledge that you share almost daily here. (this being the cool kids salute) 🖕
> 
> On that note, I almost pulled the trigger in having you make me a set (you offered once before also), but @FranQL decided to do it because you were so busy moving (which BTW, I hope all went well on that front also).  Either way, I am super happy with the result, and listen to them daily and feel honored to have something made by any of the top DIYers that I know of.
> 
> Considering that the recommendation is that they be (almost) naked, I don't really see an issue with that. That would be a sort of unique tuning IMO. Most are tuned to be used with foams rather than without them.



No selling intention at this moment. Until I can get as good as TGXear buds, Rikubuds, and Fiio FF3, I have no intention of getting people's money for mediocre stuffs. We have enough "budget king" IEMs for that  

I asked because I think having to force listeners to use a particular type of foam or ring is a lousy work on the tuner's side (me). Kind of disappointed that I cannot squeeze better upper midrange and air out of these 64 ohm Ti drivers without changing the ear tips.

Edit: I *do* want to make very good buds as gifts to others, though. If I can nitpick manufacturers about their tuning and technical performance, then I should be able to use that insight to make something good, otherwise I would just be BS-ing  . I think making great buds that bring delight to others like @FranQL is pretty cool.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> No selling intention at this moment. Until I can get as good as TGXear buds, Rikubuds, and Fiio FF3, I have no intention of getting people's money for mediocre stuffs. We have enough "budget king" IEMs for that
> 
> I asked because I think having to force listeners to use a particular type of foam or ring is a lousy work on the tuner's side (me). Kind of disappointed that I cannot squeeze better upper midrange and air out of these 64 ohm Ti drivers without changing the ear tips.



Keep in mind, as @samandhi already mentioned, most buds are tuned to be used with some type of foam setup. Furthermore, we all hear differently so the chances that we'd all choose or be forced to choose a particular type of foam with that bud if we each had a pair is slim to none. 

Just look at the FF3 and foam preferences there. Sure, most of you guys seem to like the bass foams, but there are three of us that use the crisp donuts and another two I believe (maybe only one) that use the balanced foams. So if we each had your DIY buds, I doubt you'd get so uniform a foam choice for any of us to feel forced into a specific foam type. Just my two cents.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I have been on a planar kick lately, but not because I choose to like a specific driver type over another, but because, especially in the high end market, planars are dominating the best of the best right now. I love me some dynamic drivers, but no matter how many I audition I haven't found anything that bests my current lineup, especially my ZMFs, for me.
> 
> The SuperMoons are a great suggestion. Too bad I already have a pair! 😂 I am interested to see how the Talos come out, but I do believe that I'm done with the new purchases for a bit aside from maybe a few more buds I want to try and I'm still auditioning DACs to make sure I have my audio chain for the Stealths where I want it. This year has been a good year for me financially, but I also sold almost $25k worth of drum, hifi, and head gear specifically with the intent to go out and get the best of the best for my tastes and I think I've accomplished that over the last few months. The ride has been crazy fun!
> 
> ...


Well, then if you are just looking for something different, then I am hearing pretty good stuff about these electrostatic phones, and don't forget about good ole' Hifiman HE1000SE, or the Shangri-La Jr. I know you said you weren't actually looking to buy, but they might be a good listen (or not because they are all open backs). 

If you get a chance, I have a request for you. If they even have them there, give a listen to the iBasso IT-07?! I am curious to see how well/poorly our signature preferences match/differ on something that I know inside and out. Of all the IEMs I have tried, these are tuned the best for my ears, and have some of the best technicalities. IMO they were way under-hyped and are in a class higher than their price tag ($900) suggests.  If not, it is all good though, I don't want you to feel like you HAVE to do anything. 

Having said all of that, I would plan on taking your N8II or Alpha (or both) with you just in case (since you know your equipment better than what they might be using). 


ian91 said:


> Very good questions! Transducers are plotted purely by ear. Neither @WoodyLuvr nor I have measuring rigs. The method is far from an exact science but I believe it still has value. Although what we hear is related to a frequency graph there are qualities to the sound that such a graph can't convey and this is an attempt to embrace and organise the subjective.
> 
> There are many ways that the reliability of observations might be an issue, particularly when more than one 'observer' contributes. What I will say is that, reassuringly, @WoodyLuvr and I have plotted sets blind and our central plot, the 'primary' position, have fallen in almost the exact same place on several occasions and nearly always fall in a reasonably acceptable proximity.
> 
> ...


Either way, I personally have found those charts very useful for me. I DO have one advantage though; @WoodyLuvr's sound preference is fairly close to mine. Or, at least his "pain" areas are (close to) the same as mine, put it that way... LOL I pretty much know that if he likes something, chances are I will also. 

On the other hand, I also like to look at Crinacles ratings. I hardly ever agree with him, but he is consistent, and the head gear that he rates average to below average, I will usually like a lot (3 of my best IEMs were based off of his C and D grades)... 

I guess the bottom line (IMO) is that once a baseline is established, you can use all the data (including those charts) to better make up your own mind. The charts don't have to be 100% scientific/accurate, they only have to be consistent among/across all earbuds. Then once you have at least one of those sets, you can use the data to map out what each part of the sound means to you, then use it for other charts and buds. That probably didn't make as much sense as it did in my own head.....


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> another two I believe (maybe only one) that use the balanced foams.


Me!

LOL Why I always gotta' be the outlier?


----------



## prakasitp

JAnonymous5150 said:


> For instance, just the other day I was listening to a bunch of prog rock that many IEMs and earbuds struggle with because they have trouble creating adequate staging, layering, and imaging in comparison to over ears which is a shortcoming prog tracks will quickly expose. With the ES-P1s I had to literally keep reminding myself that I was listening on an earbud. Furthermore, as a professional drummer I can tell you that they have some of the most realistic instrument presentation and timbre, especially when it comes to drums, that I have heard and I don't just mean for an earbud, I mean for any transducer medium.


Out of topic a little, Would you please recommend some of the tracks / albums /bands? Love to try with ES-P1 too. 😆😆


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> Me!
> 
> LOL Why I always gotta' be the outlier?



I use balanced foam on FF3, so no worries mate


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Me!
> 
> LOL Why I always gotta' be the outlier?



Haha I'll switch to balanced for all official posts and polls so you don't have to be alone, bro!

I ALWAYS bring my DAPs, my favorite portable (the Gryphon this time), a pair or two of IEMs, a pair of phones if needed, and this year a couple pairs of buds as well when I go to CanJams. You can never be too prepared and you never know what you might run into for demoing purposes.

I will definitely keep an eye out for the iBassos for sure and will report back on them and the Stellias if I get a chance to check them out. Today when I went, I went mostly for my reserved DCA Expanse demo and I didn't have much time to wander, especially since they were behind on demo times. 

Tommorow whatever time I spend there will be entirely freestyle wandering (now with the recs from you and tgx in mind) so it should be fun. I have to knock some stuff out at the studio first, but it's supposed to be a light day so if all goes well I should have a good chunk of time to dedicate to meandering through the booths, tables, and displays.


----------



## samandhi (Sep 18, 2022)

prakasitp said:


> Out of topic a little, Would you please recommend some of the tracks / albums /bands? Love to try with ES-P1 too. 😆😆


Some (few) prog rock groups in general that has the best productions, and could show off or expose weaknesses in buds would be:


Spock's Beard
Pattern Seeking Animals (contains 2 of the OG Spock's Beard members)
Sub Lunar
Tool
Perfect Circle (Maynard James Keenan's solo band when not with Tool. Well, one of a few hehe)
Karnivool
Yes (old school)
And of course, just for the pleasure of it, Rush
Having said that they all have to be Redbook or better to pick up some of the more subtle nuances in the music IMHO.

Edit: Apologies. I know you didn't ask me.


o0genesis0o said:


> I use balanced foam on FF3, so no worries mate


WOOT! I am not alone whew!


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Haha I'll switch to balanced for all official posts and polls so you don't have to be alone, bro!
> 
> I ALWAYS bring my DAPs, my favorite portable (the Gryphon this time), a pair or two of IEMs, a pair of phones if needed, and this year a couple pairs of buds as well when I go to CanJams. You can never be too prepared and you never know what you might run into for demoing purposes.
> 
> ...


No need, I now know I am not alone....  But thanks anyhow!

Fantastic! Enjoy yourself (for all of us).


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 18, 2022)

prakasitp said:


> Out of topic a little, Would you please recommend some of the tracks / albums /bands? Love to try with ES-P1 too. 😆😆



For prog rock with the ES-P1s? Sure!

Porcupine Tree - In Absentia & Closure/Continuation

The Pineapple Thief - Versions of the Truth

Frost* - Day and Age

Pattern-Seeking Animals - Self-Titled

Lonely Robot - A Model Life

The Neal Morse Band - Innocence&Danger

Pure Reason Revolution - Above Cirrus

Polyphia - New Levels New Devils

Animals As Leaders - Parrhesia

The Mars Volta - De-Loused in the Crematorium & Self-Titled

Liquid Tension Experiment - Nos. 2 & 3

Transatlantic - The Absolute Universe: Forevermore

TesseracT - Sonder

Spock's Beard - Noise Floor

Rush - 2112, Moving Pictures, and Clockwork Angels

Long Distance Calling - Eraser

The Flower Kings - By Royal Decree

Lunatic Soul - Through Shaded Woods

IQ - The Road of Bones

Mystery - Caught in the Whirlwind & Disillusion Rain

Flying Colors - Second Nature, Third Degree, and Self-Titled

This might have been more than you bargained for, but depending on what music service you use prog (especially neo-prog which much of this is) catalogs can be spotty. I tried to pick more mainstream available albums and give a wide range so you'd be able to find as many of them as possible. These are all albums I would recommend, but for most of these artists anything you come across will likely be fine. These are just my best picks from the prog jag I have been on lately.

Enjoy and happy listening! Let me know what you think!

Edit: @samandhi is right the better quality you can find, the more you'll hear the kinds of things that makes prog good for testing the abilities of earbuds and other transducers and for revealing their weaknesses. RedBook/CD Quality or better is always recommended when I mention a music recommendation.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> For prog rock with the ES-P1s? Sure!
> 
> Porcupine Tree - In Absentia & Closure/Continuation
> 
> ...


There are some great ones there for sure. I totally forgot about The Mars Volta and Frost*. Some I don't recognize but am writing down. 

BTW! Pattern Seeking Animals has a new album (as of April this year), and it is pretty great and should probably be included also IMHO:


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> There are some great ones there for sure. I totally forgot about The Mars Volta and Frost*. Some I don't recognize but am writing down.
> 
> BTW! Pattern Seeking Animals has a new album (as of April this year), and it is pretty great and should probably be included also IMHO:




Yeah, I really like the new Pattern-Seeking Animals as well. You're right, I probably should have included it, but then again I have literally dozens upon dozens more prog, neo-prog, djent, progressive metal, etc albums I probably could have included as well. I have literally been listening to prog, prog, and more prog for hours a day for a while now. I have been incorporating some drumming techniques that are common to prog and free form or acid jazz in my drumming on some new material so I have been heavily studying how different drummers use it, how they use it differently with each group they're in, how it fits in slightly different musical contexts, etc. I can get a little obsessive about this kind of study (a little? 😂), but I look at it as being a serious part of my craft and I have always done it. Plus, it seems to have worked out so far!


----------



## samandhi

Oh, and another one I highly recommend is sort of a mashup of prog metal/rock and whimsical or fantasy symphonic (sort of). You really have to hear it (a whole song) to appreciate its nuances:


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Yeah, I really like the new Pattern-Seeking Animals as well. You're right, I probably should have included it, but then again I have literally dozens upon dozens more prog, neo-prog, djent, progressive metal, etc albums I probably could have included as well. I have literally been listening to prog, prog, and more prog for hours a day for a while now. I have been incorporating some drumming techniques that are common to prog and free form or acid jazz in my drumming on some new material so I have been heavily studying how different drummers use it, how they use it differently with each group they're in, how it fits in slightly different musical contexts, etc. I can get a little obsessive about this kind of study (a little? 😂), but I look at it as being a serious part of my craft and I have always done it. Plus, it seems to have worked out so far!


Funny, I do kind of the same thing, but just for fun. If I had not been a singer, and actually learned how, I would have been a drummer myself. Most times I judge a set of head gear by how well I can hear ALL aspects of the drums (not just bass). 

For instance, I have watched Danny Carey do his thing in Pneuma about 200 times, and it STILL manages to blow my mind.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 18, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Oh, and another one I highly recommend is sort of a mashup of prog metal/rock and whimsical or fantasy symphonic (sort of). You really have to hear it (a whole song) to appreciate its nuances:




White Willow is fun, but sometimes the epic/fantasy stuff can border on being too much for me. I have to be in the right mood for them, you know what I mean?

A really interesting one I have been going back and forth in is a band called Bent Knee. If you haven't heard them and you have the time give some of their stuff a listen and tell me what you think.

Their album entitled You Know What They Mean is a good place to start.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> White Willow is fun, but sometimes the epic/fantasy stuff can border on being too much for me. I have to be in the right mood for them, you know what I mean?


I do know what you mean. And to be honest the first time I heard it I wasn't too fond of it. But boy did it grow on me. It seems as though every time I listen to it, there is more revealed, so I force myself to be patient. 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> A really interesting one I have been going back and forth in is a band called Bent Knee. If you haven't heard them and you have the time give some of their stuff a listen and tell me what you think.
> 
> They're album entitled You Know What They Mean is a good place to start.


Hmmm, I will check it out. Thanks!


----------



## syazwaned

samandhi said:


> Well, then if you are just looking for something different, then I am hearing pretty good stuff about these electrostatic phones, and don't forget about good ole' Hifiman HE1000SE, or the Shangri-La Jr. I know you said you weren't actually looking to buy, but they might be a good listen (or not because they are all open backs).
> 
> If you get a chance, I have a request for you. If they even have them there, give a listen to the iBasso IT-07?! I am curious to see how well/poorly our signature preferences match/differ on something that I know inside and out. Of all the IEMs I have tried, these are tuned the best for my ears, and have some of the best technicalities. IMO they were way under-hyped and are in a class higher than their price tag ($900) suggests.  If not, it is all good though, I don't want you to feel like you HAVE to do anything.
> 
> ...


 Crin like 8k peak, which not really my type. I prefer Riku, HBB type of preference. Mr Woody preference also align with my preference, which the reason why I can confidently follow his recommendation.


----------



## o0genesis0o

syazwaned said:


> Crin like 8k peak, which not really my type.



Why do you think that he likes 8k peak? I'm not even sure whether 8k peak exists when looking at a graph because IEC711 coupler has resonance peak around that area. I think his target is quite sensible and even less shouty than Harman. It's the fanboys around him that are annoying to me


----------



## syazwaned

o0genesis0o said:


> Why do you think that he likes 8k peak? I'm not even sure whether 8k peak exists when looking at a graph because IEC711 coupler has resonance peak around that area. I think his target is quite sensible and even less shouty than Harman. It's the fanboys around him that are annoying to me




I am not a graph guy 😅, so I can't say anything. But I find crin tuning is too bright for my ears. It is a preference things, others maybe different.

Crin fanboy are massive around Facebook, careful when you get there 😅


----------



## syazwaned

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Count me in! With how good the FF3 is, there's no way my curiosity will leave me alone until I try it.



Please do! If it doesn't provide any noticeable upgrade over FF3, then I'll get FF3..save my money 😝



Ronion said:


> Same, but I’m afraid I may have to ship them elsewhere…. Once my wife sees them: well, I’m gonna have some ‘splanin to do.



Remember this rule. Every 100 usd spend on earbuds, a 500 usd needed to spend on her gold😆😆


----------



## samandhi (Sep 18, 2022)

Spoiler: Off Topic






JAnonymous5150 said:


> A really interesting one I have been going back and forth in is a band called Bent Knee. If you haven't heard them and you have the time give some of their stuff a listen and tell me what you think.
> 
> They're album entitled You Know What They Mean is a good place to start.


I have only heard the first track so far, but I really like the music alot. I don't much care for the vocalist. It's not that she is bad per se', but I feel she better mixes with punk music (of which I am not a big fan of with exceptions such as Bad Religion - True North).

As for the music it really has some good stuff in there. Parts remind me of another top 5 of the grand daddies of prog rock, which most people don't realize is Genesis. It also has some great grungy parts that remind me of Creed, but then they switch it up to a sort of "club" sound. But, then they switch it again to "garage" sound, and many others that I will need to listen more than one time to pick up on.  I especially love it when the drums sync with either the bass guitar, or electric guitar, even (or especially) when doing some polyrythms. This is one of the things that I really love about Tool also.

BTW! By the 5th song, I am starting to like her voice a bit better for the sound they are trying to achieve (more coherent to the surrounding music).


----------



## samandhi

syazwaned said:


> Remember this rule. Every 100 usd spend on earbuds, a 500 usd needed to spend on her gold😆😆


Good rule of thumb!


----------



## samandhi (Sep 18, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Spoiler: Off Topic
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler: A Little More Off Topic



Speaking of Genesis being prog rock, here is a sample of them in 1972 Foxtrot - Get Em' Out By Friday (if you have never heard some of their earlier work). It is well produced (especially from that era), and Phil Collins is at his best on the drum duty and of course this is an example of a great song by them at that time/era. Peter Gabriel wore the red dress and fox head (that is on the cover) while touring for this album, which may seem normal these days, but this was 1972-73. lol


----------



## fooltoque

syazwaned said:


> Fiio has released pricing for FF5. It is 150 usd. Quite expensive but if it is to be an improvement over FF3, it might worth it.


I was expecting EM5 levels of payment, so I'm really looking forward to this. Going by the FF3, I will be able listen to it locally a couple months after it launches. I'll probably end up doing that unless I get impatient. Having several months to enjoy my Berzerkers and FF3 is not a bad thing at all


----------



## prakasitp

o0genesis0o said:


> I'm working on the review of FF3 and Shanling UP4. Since some manufacturers have politely but firmly suggested that I take more photos, I decided to take my real camera out. Here are some eye candies (I hope) of some DIY buds that I am using now:
> 
> GEM002 (rebuilt GEM001) and GEM003 (tuned YD30 driver, metal shell, now with snazzy interchangeable plug cable)


Very good looking white bud!!


----------



## prakasitp

samandhi said:


> Some (few) prog rock groups in general that has the best productions, and could show off or expose weaknesses in buds would be:
> 
> 
> Spock's Beard
> ...


Thank you @samandhi! 

I will definitely try those. And no need to apology at all, love all inputs and recommendations. 😍😍😍


----------



## prakasitp

JAnonymous5150 said:


> For prog rock with the ES-P1s? Sure!
> 
> Porcupine Tree - In Absentia & Closure/Continuation
> 
> ...


What a list! Thank you very much. I have listen to some of the albums but definitely listen to them carefully next time and will let you know.

And will try to get better quality even though i mostly listen through streaming service. 😆😆😆


----------



## o0genesis0o

prakasitp said:


> Very good looking white bud!!


Thanks mate! Formula to make one here. It sounds quite decent and seems to jive with casual listeners. 

The cable is Xinhs 8 core with interchangeable plug. It is having 85% discount, which is insane. Highly recommended. I'm going to get another one before the discount ends.


----------



## ttorbic

Not earbuds related, but really thought some of you would enjoy watching this: 

I laughed throughout the interview!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 18, 2022)

mt877 said:


> @WoodyLuvr and @ian91, The Sound Signature chart you guys came up with is very nice. How exactly are you plotting the sound signature of buds and IEMs? I mean what are you doing to determine how to plot a sound signature? Are you taking FR measurements and interpreting the measurements a certain way to determine the graphical plot? Are you just using your ears to carefully listen to how an earbud or IEM sounds to you and then do a plot? I think since everybody hears differently that would not be feasible. Besides yourselves, how do others use your chart to plot a sound signature that would be consistent across several users plotting the same earbuds or IEMs? Do you have a tutorial or explanation on how you plot an earbud in your Sound Signature chart? I'm really intrigued.


By ear I am afraid... and a lil' magic too 🪄. See more below.

*WoodyLuvr's Sound Signature Chart*

*WoodyLuvr's Sound Signature Chart Head-Fi Post*



samandhi said:


> IMO, even if it isn't scientifically based, it is a tremendous way to graphically show how one might describe what they are hearing.


Thank you. I think it compliments earbud graphs that don't always tell the whole story. Just another tool in the toolbox kind of thing.


ian91 said:


> Very good questions! Transducers are plotted purely by ear. Neither @WoodyLuvr nor I have measuring rigs. The method is far from an exact science but I believe it still has value. Although what we hear is related to a frequency graph there are qualities to the sound that such a graph can't convey and this is an attempt to embrace and organise the subjective.
> 
> There are many ways that the reliability of observations might be an issue, particularly when more than one 'observer' contributes to the same comparison chart. What I will say is that, reassuringly, @WoodyLuvr and I have plotted sets blind and our central plot, the 'primary' position, have fallen in almost the exact same place on several occasions and nearly always fall in a reasonably acceptable proximity.
> 
> ...


* @mt877* what he said!* @ian91* very well said! Nothing to add sir you covered it perfectly


----------



## Danneq (Sep 18, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Some (few) prog rock groups in general that has the best productions, and could show off or expose weaknesses in buds would be:
> 
> 
> Spock's Beard
> ...



Older Genesis (ca 1970-1980) can sound really nice as well. As well as Kansas (ca 1974-1979). The best Gentle Giant albums such as In a Glass House, The Power and the Glory and Free Hand are great on earbuds.

Some other prog bands are:
_Babylon _(great Genesis inspired album "Babylon" released in 1978)
_Cathedral _(very Yes-inspired US prog band that released "Stained Glass Stories" in 1978)
_Discipline _is a prog band that are mainly inspired by Van Den Graaf Generator and Genesis. Their first album was released in 1993. My favorite is Unfolded Like Staircase from 1997
_Dynamic Lights_ is an Italian prog band that released "Shape" in 2005. No real retro prog influences here. More neo prog. Perhaps some slight Marillion influences.
_Echolyn _is a great US prog band with heavy Gentle Giant influences. All of their albums are recommended. They are on the same level as Spock's Beard and Neal Morse. First album was released in 1991 and their latest in 2015.
_England _was a great band that was heavily influenced by Genesis. "Garden Shed" from 1977 sounds great on earbuds.
_Flash _was the name of the band that guitarist Peter Banks started after he left Yes. Flash (1972) and In the Can (1972) are both great.
_Happy the Man_ was a US prog band that Peter Gabriel wanted for his backing band after he left Genesis, even before they had released any albums. "Crafty Hands" from 1978 is amazing.
_Izz _is a great newer US prog rock band that are influenced by older prog bands without sounding like a clone (a bit like Spock's Beard or Echolyn). They also have some more modern influences.
_Mirthrandir _was another late 70's US prog band that was influenced by one of the English greats (mainly Yes) and released one album in 1976 ("For You the Old Women")
_UK_ is a band that most prog rock listening people have heard of. Really really great prog rock with the amazing drumming of Bill Bruford.

Just off the top of my head. Some of the more obscure old indie prog rock albums have great production considering the circumstances when they were recorded (basic equipment and lack of funding)


----------



## jeejack (Sep 18, 2022)

In collaboration with my good friend @FranQL , this 32 ohm pair came out. Very easy to drive and a great sound


----------



## jeejack

o0genesis0o said:


> I'm asking because a pair of DIY that I am working on absolutely requires listeners to use silicone rings or at least donut foam. Any full foam would be too dark and muffled. Personally, I think it is unacceptable, but I want to hear how you guys think.


Play with drivers and shell tuning first


----------



## JAnonymous5150

syazwaned said:


> Remember this rule. Every 100 usd spend on earbuds, a 500 usd needed to spend on her gold😆😆



Wow! I'm gonna need a bigger ring...Hell, I'm gonna need a bigger bank account!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

*FYI* - I have now added a *sound signature chart* to my mini-review of the *Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600 LE; 600Ω*

This was a tough one but I think I got it down as best as I can.


----------



## syazwaned

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Longyao-Yinman龙谣音曼
> 2.0 600 Limited Edition; 600Ω
> 3.5SE / 3.5TRS / 3.5MM Unbalanced *
> 
> ...




awesome work!


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> You are very kind, and I would rather the same (you make, rather than buy). But mostly I enjoy reading and absorbing the (fantastic) knowledge that you share almost daily here. (this being the cool kids salute) 🖕
> 
> On that note, I almost pulled the trigger in having you make me a set (you offered once before also), but @FranQL decided to do it because you were so busy moving (which BTW, I hope all went well on that front also).  Either way, I am super happy with the result, and listen to them daily and feel honored to have something made by any of the top DIYers that I know of.
> 
> Considering that the recommendation is that they be (almost) naked, I don't really see an issue with that. That would be a sort of unique tuning IMO. Most are tuned to be used with foams rather than without them.


Thank you!  I’m always amazed by the breadth and depth of your knowledge as well.   @FranQL builds them beautiful.  

Things are moving forward—slowly LOL.  I work 6-7days a week and progress is slow because of it.  That said, I did get a full weekend and progress is happening right now!   Just taking a break at the moment.


----------



## samandhi

prakasitp said:


> What a list! Thank you very much. I have listen to some of the albums but definitely listen to them carefully next time and will let you know.
> 
> And will try to get better quality even though i mostly listen through streaming service. 😆😆😆


This is the main reason I use Amazon Music. Everything is at least Redbook quality. Though there ARE some other really good ones out there (Qobuz, Tidal, Apple Lossless). I only like Amazon the most because 1) I have a Prime membership, and it is pretty cheap to upgrade from the free tier that comes with it & 2) Like Google Play Music used to be, Amazon has a HUGE library (even some of the most obscure stuff is on there. 

For instance, Tenpenny Joke - Ambush On All Sides - Sense. They have to be one of the most unlucky bands ever. They made just the one album. They definitely have the production value, and the mainstream sound. They toured over a decade, and finally broke up (shame really)... 

BTW! If anyone has this album in Redbook or higher, I would REALLY love to have it. I could only find it (for purchase) from GPM and of course it is only 320 .mp3 quality. 


Danneq said:


> Older Genesis (ca 1970-1980) can sound really nice as well. As well as Kansas (ca 1974-1979). The best Gentle Giant albums such as In a Glass House, The Power and the Glory and Free Hand are great on earbuds.
> 
> Some other prog bands are:
> _Babylon _(great Genesis inspired album "Babylon" released in 1978)
> ...


Yes, that is one of the reasons I put Genesis on (my) list of top 5 "grand daddies" of prog rock for their (many many) works before their popularity set in. But, I forgot about Kansas, good call! 

Fantastic write-up on prog! Some I have heard of and just didn't list, but others on there I have not heard before. 


WoodyLuvr said:


> *FYI* - I have now added a *sound signature chart* to my mini-review of the *Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600 LE; 600Ω*
> 
> This was a tough one but I think I got it down as best as I can.


You nailed it IMHO. Great work sir! 


Ronion said:


> Thank you!  I’m always amazed by the breadth and depth of your knowledge as well.   @FranQL builds them beautiful.
> 
> Things are moving forward—slowly LOL.  I work 6-7days a week and progress is slow because of it.  That said, I did get a full weekend and progress is happening right now!   Just taking a break at the moment.


Thank you also! And yes @FranQL makes some FANTASTIC builds. I got to see some that he was building while he was building mine, and they ALL looked very nice! 

Well, that is good to know. I know moving can be a VERY tough thing to do. I have been on my own since I was 15, and when I was younger, I moved (for many years after) an average of 6 times per year. Thankfully, that all ended and the last house we had (rented) we lived in for about 6 years. We later, bought a house, and had to move all over again. This time we have been in this house now for 16 years. Oh, the agony if we ever have to move from this house... LOL


----------



## Danneq

samandhi said:


> Yes, that is one of the reasons I put Genesis on (my) list of top 5 "grand daddies" of prog rock for their (many many) works before their popularity set in. But, I forgot about Kansas, good call!
> 
> Fantastic write-up on prog! Some I have heard of and just didn't list, but others on there I have not heard before.


Just don't get me started on prog metal! There are a lot of great albums both in the Dream Theater vein and in other styles.

Not prog rock, but related: My favorite track for percussion is Tokyo Dream with Allan Holdsworth. Especially the re-recorded version that is included on the album Wardenclyffe Tower (1992), which is also a great test for soundstage on earbuds.


----------



## mt877

ian91 said:


> Very good questions! Transducers are plotted purely by ear. Neither @WoodyLuvr nor I have measuring rigs. The method is far from an exact science but I believe it still has value. Although what we hear is related to a frequency graph there are qualities to the sound that such a graph can't convey and this is an attempt to embrace and organise the subjective.
> 
> There are many ways that the reliability of observations might be an issue, particularly when more than one 'observer' contributes to the same comparison chart. What I will say is that, reassuringly, @WoodyLuvr and I have plotted sets blind and our central plot, the 'primary' position, have fallen in almost the exact same place on several occasions and nearly always fall in a reasonably acceptable proximity.
> 
> ...





WoodyLuvr said:


> By ear I am afraid... and a lil' magic too 🪄. See more below.
> 
> *WoodyLuvr's Sound Signature Chart*
> 
> *WoodyLuvr's Sound Signature Chart Head-Fi Post*


Thanks for your answers guys. @WoodyLuvr, I do have a couple of the buds that you've provided charts for, so I'll find those paticular charts that you've posted and see if your graphical impression matches what I'm hearing so I have a better understanding of how you're plotting on the chart.


----------



## samandhi

Danneq said:


> Just don't get me started on prog metal! There are a lot of great albums both in the Dream Theater vein and in other styles.
> 
> Not prog rock, but related: My favorite track for percussion is Tokyo Dream with Allan Holdsworth. Especially the re-recorded version that is included on the album Wardenclyffe Tower (1992), which is also a great test for soundstage on earbuds.



Very nice listen! 

What buds do you favor for prog rock/metal?


----------



## Danneq (Sep 20, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Very nice listen!
> 
> What buds do you favor for prog rock/metal?


That song is great not only for soundstage (depth and width) but also instrument layering and placement. I always listen to it when I get new earbuds.

I am not as active here as I used to (started to follow this thread in 2009 and started to contribute in 2010) and I am not very familiar with most of the current earbuds. For metal, Toneking Tomahawk is great. It is not the most technical earbud and it doesn't work well with other genres, but with metal it just clicks. At least for me.

A couple of years ago I decided to only focus on flagship earbuds, and only lower impedance ones. Of the more recent and well known ones, Moondrop Chaconne is great with prog rock and metal. If you can get a pair of Cypherus CampFred 2 or ZoomFred, both are great for those genres. CampFred 2 is more musical while ZoomFred has a more raw sound with great bass for a pair of earbuds. Perhaps a bit pricey, but Herry of Cypherus sure know what he's doing.

I had not bought a pair of earbuds in over 1 year (Fiio EM5), and when I bought the Chaconne (and Liebesleid) in Japan this summer I started to feel that itch again. I've just ordered TRN EMX and have got my eye on Rose Martini and Yincrow RW-3000. I hope there are good deals on Black friday this year.


----------



## samandhi

Danneq said:


> That song is great not only for soundstage (depth and width) but also instrument layering and placement. I always listen to it when I get new earbuds.
> 
> I am not as active here as I used to (started to follow this thread in 2009 and started to contribute in 2010) and I am not very familiar with most of the current earbuds. For metal, Toneking Tomahawk is great. It is not the most technical earbud and it doesn't work well with other genres, but with metal it just clicks. At least for me.
> 
> ...


The Chaconne are indeed very nice, though for metal they can become fatiguing pretty quickly with any sort of volume. As for the rest, it looks like you have a really good game plan going on. Do let us know how the "itch" works out for you?!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Spoiler: Off Topic
> 
> 
> 
> ...



BTW, your thoughts here mirror my own semi conflicted thoughts. The music definitely has something to offer a a it's actually very good at times. The female lead's voice can sound great and have an almost sultry quality to it and then on the very next song, sometimes the next verse, it can be annoying and even grating. I like the idea of a neo-prog outfit lead by a powerful female vocalist and I even think she could be that vocalist if she further refines her delivery and knocks it off with the gimmicky multiple octave signing to yelling changes. 

IDK though, I look and see that they have a few full length releases under their belts and I wonder if that change is something that will happen or if we're hearing the group as it's primarily going to sound from here on out. It'll be interesting to see. 

I can't believe that there's no one around this group in the studio or otherwise who hasn't given the lead singer these critiques. It seems like a pretty basic observation that I think has to have occurred to people close to the band.


----------



## christianfps

qua2k said:


> Figured I would give Toneking a try, have a pair of Viridis en route. No stopping the collection now.


 Oh my please do give a review! It has been on my cart for a long time too! Hahaha!

The FF5 might just be my first big spend on earbuds! Really excited for some leaks! 
Hi guys any recommendations for an IEM counterpart like the FF3s? Truthear Zero or should I just stick with FIIO alike? FD3/FH3?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

@tgx78 and @samandhi I tried to post this earlier, but I guess something happened since I don't see it so I'll take a quick second to try again.

I got to listen to the Utopia 2022 and I actually managed to get a pretty long session (for CanJam anyways) if you can call it that. I actually think that the facelift Focal has given the Utopias looks pretty good and one of the sonic differences I have noticed is the increase in space abd larger soundstage that is supposed to be a result of the new, more open grille design on the 2022s.

My understanding is that the 2022 Utopias are supposed to be a more refined version of the OG Utopias and that the new/revamped driver (new voice coil IIRC) is supposed to produce increased resolution and better linearity or more neutrality. I do think I hear a little bit of that greater linearity particularly with the bass to to low mids area. I'm definitely not picking up anything beyond very, very slight differences that are so small I sometimes wonder if I'm actually hearing a difference.

I don't hear incresed resolution. Plain and simple. By the end of my time with the 2022s I found myself really thinking that a lot was being made out of a revision that, in terms of sound sig and quality, has changed very little. How much more of a difference would I have heard if I had the OGs there for A/B testing rather than just going of memories and impressions from the last? I don't know, but I feel pretty confident in saying that those who have been fans of Focal and the Utopia will continue to be fans of the 2022 version. I don't think this revision is going to convert the unconvinced who, up to now, haven't been the biggest fans of the OG Utopias, but I don't know if it was really meant to.

I'll post any other updates that occur to me as being relevant when I have a second. I just wanted to post this part while these thought were pretty fresh. Sorry if this is more or less a repost and my first attempt was successful.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> BTW, your thoughts here mirror my own semi conflicted thoughts. The music definitely has something to offer a a it's actually very good at times. The female lead's voice can sound great and have an almost sultry quality to it and then on the very next song, sometimes the next verse, it can be annoying and even grating. I like the idea of a neo-prog outfit lead by a powerful female vocalist and I even think she could be that vocalist if she further refines her delivery and knocks it off with the gimmicky multiple octave signing to yelling changes.
> 
> IDK though, I look and see that they have a few full length releases under their belts and I wonder if that change is something that will happen or if we're hearing the group as it's primarily going to sound from here on out. It'll be interesting to see.
> 
> I can't believe that there's no one around this group in the studio or otherwise who hasn't given the lead singer these critiques. It seems like a pretty basic observation that I think has to have occurred to people close to the band.


I haven't listened to the other albums (but it looks like there are quite a few on Amazon, so I will get there) so I can't decide whether your theory is accurate or not about being set in their ways. But I would have to agree that SOMEONE has to have mentioned something about it to this point. After all they have toured with some moderately big names (such as Haken). 

I will have to keep the query alive by listening some more. 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> @tgx78 and @samandhi I tried to post this earlier, but I guess something happened since I don't see it so I'll take a quick second to try again.
> 
> I got to listen to the Utopia 2022 and I actually managed to get a pretty long session (for CanJam anyways) if you can call it that. I actually think that the facelift Focal has given the Utopias looks pretty good and one of the sonic differences I have noticed is the increase in space abd larger soundstage that is supposed to be a result of the new, more open grille design on the 2022s.
> 
> ...


Ah Nice! I have a suspicion about their new lines. I think that secretly most of their new lines are simply dressed up older versions (with maybe minor tweaks). Case in point, it is my belief that the Celestee is just the Elegia with leather pads as stock (rather than micro-fiber) and a different coat of paint, which DOES completely change the sound, but the price went up (significantly @$1700) from what the Elegia were originally ($900).  I bought some Dekoni custom lambskin leather Stelia pads for mine that probably do the same thing (this might even where Focal got the idea, from the Elegia thread where MOST people were doing the same). 

Thanks for taking the time to post your findings.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I like the idea of a neo-prog outfit lead by a powerful female vocalist and I even think she could be that vocalist if she further refines her delivery and knocks it off with the gimmicky multiple octave signing to yelling changes.


While it is not neo-prog, it is prog rock all the same, and you might enjoy this one if you haven't already heard of her (which I would find it hard to believe if you hadn't):



BTW! This whole album sounds amazing with the FF3.


----------



## o0genesis0o

christianfps said:


> Hi guys any recommendations for an IEM counterpart like the FF3s? Truthear Zero or should I just stick with FIIO alike? FD3/FH3?



No FH3. That one is just horrible. Squashed soundstage that makes everything closed in, overly smoothened sound without texture, big subbass without the tight and textured midbass to support, and the cable gets nasty after a while. My first fancy IEM, though. What was I thinking   

FD3 pro is better, but it has been a very long time since I last heard it, so I can’t be sure whether it is competitive nowadays anymore. Of course, it is a competent IEM.


----------



## fooltoque

o0genesis0o said:


> No FH3. That one is just horrible. Squashed soundstage that makes everything closed in, overly smoothened sound without texture, big subbass without the tight and textured midbass to support, and the cable gets nasty after a while. My first fancy IEM, though. What was I thinking
> 
> FD3 pro is better, but it has been a very long time since I last heard it, so I can’t be sure whether it is competitive nowadays anymore. Of course, it is a competent IEM.


FH3 was also my first 'fancy' IEM. It has all those problems, yes, but I still have a soft spot in my heart for it. If you are into ASMR, that squashed soundstage has its place 

I gave it to my daughter.


----------



## o0genesis0o

fooltoque said:


> FH3 was also my first 'fancy' IEM. It has all those problems, yes, but I still have a soft spot in my heart for it. If you are into ASMR, that squashed soundstage has its place
> 
> I gave it to my daughter.



Hey, me too (except the daughter part). I’m going to get it a better cable and mod it somehow. Maybe closing the front vents to boost the midbass?   That 1.2k honk is quite hard to fix though.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio (Sep 18, 2022)

_*RIOBuds*_ becomes ! 
DIY Project shell mx500


Spoiler

























About shell:


Spoiler



*This is an Open Source project!* where everyone can independently print this case, buy related parts and make a candy for themselves 
Printed on a regular FDM printer (not photopolymer).

And so, some time ago I already laid out this corpus, but there were shortcomings that needed to be corrected.
From the prototype to ... almost the final product!
There was a little time and a little bit redid some moments in the case. Firstly: comfort has become a little better; Secondly: improved acoustic properties (about them later).
What was my idea: earbuds, as a class, are very good, but I lacked that bass, dynamics and lower mids that are in in-ear headphones. In general, it is possible to make a basport in Foster (those that are MX500) cases, but sometimes it is not possible to make it accurately and large enough. In general, the idea -> implementation. What gives the shape and data of the tube? The first thing you hear: the bass is booming, thick, the beat is such that you feel it not only with the membrane, the lower middle is full, the vocals are finally not so dry, thin and lifeless! The stage is built a little wider. All this "before / after" is easily felt if you close these tubes with your finger.

Fit comfort - like foster(mx500 mean) shell.
Regarding the choice of connectors: in addition to the fact that I currently have only 2 pins, this type is closest to me because the plug is easier to remove and insert without much force (sometimes mmx are such that you can tear out the floor of the case). Also more affordable cables have better 2pin connectors than those with mmx.

Regarding the label of the channels and the (+) / (-) connector: I thought for a long time, and did not come up with anything smarter than how to make a mark (+) with a needle file at the connector, and do not mark the channels, because these ears can be worn with the cable down and behind the ear ( where it is necessary to change the headphones themselves in places because they change + and -) and just put on colored ear pads and that's it  On the cable, they still make notes in the form of a key (a notch goes out) or a dot (means a minus).
I adjusted all the connections in size so that you don’t even need to glue anything, 2pin sits firmly in the grooves, and the speaker and the case snap into place just like in the mx500 shell- firmly, but not tightly. The amount of ball can be adjusted by adding a foam damper (horseshoe) - there will be more bass (as in the description above), without a damper - a more even sound *.
*also depends on the speaker used.



Download:  https://cloud.mail.ru/public/sERm/GrGe7T9gE


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> While it is not neo-prog, it is prog rock all the same, and you might enjoy this one if you haven't already heard of her (which I would find it hard to believe if you hadn't):
> 
> 
> 
> BTW! This whole album sounds amazing with the FF3.




+1 For Tracy Bonham! She can definitely consider me a fan. Her voice and the music are legit for sure.

+2 For the Focal new lines really being a rehash. I didn't want to be controversial in the other posts, but it certainly seems that they're making very minor changes to existing products just to get Focal fans to fork over more of their money. Now I know some of those Focal guys and they'll basically tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about. That the differences are huge and that my ears and/or palette must be at fault for my inability to hear it. Personally, I'll trust my ears every time.

BTW, I didn't get as much time as I would have like at CanJam and I didn't get a chance to try the iBassos (if they had them), but I have arranged to take a listen to a friend's Stellias when I see him later this week. I was just happy to grab a couple hours of fun while I could though.


----------



## yaps66

syazwaned said:


> Fiio has released pricing for FF5. It is 150 usd. Quite expensive but if it is to be an improvement over FF3, it might worth it.


Thanks for the update! Will be in line with others here to get it.



Spoiler: Meanwhile...












samandhi said:


> And if you are into planar the new CA Supermoon look worth hearing, along with the debuting DUNU Talos planar + BA (with a switch to turn on and off the BA). Just a couple things to try out.





JAnonymous5150 said:


> I have been on a planar kick lately, but not because I choose to like a specific driver type over another, but because, especially in the high end market, planars are dominating the best of the best right now. I love me some dynamic drivers, but no matter how many I audition I haven't found anything that bests my current lineup, especially my ZMFs, for me.
> 
> The SuperMoons are a great suggestion. Too bad I already have a pair! 😂 I am interested to see how the Talos come out, but I do believe that I'm done with the new purchases for a bit aside from maybe a few more buds I want to try and I'm still auditioning DACs to make sure I have my audio chain for the Stealths where I want it. This year has been a good year for me financially, but I also sold almost $25k worth of drum, hifi, and head gear specifically with the intent to go out and get the best of the best for my tastes and I think I've accomplished that over the last few months. The ride has been crazy fun!
> 
> ...


Would love to hear your impressions on the Supermoon!  Did you get customs or one of those elusive universals?  I managed to get a universal but had to get them via a source in Singapore so I will have to find an excuse to go to Singapore to pick it up!

Like you I am done with major purposes for a while especially after I just got this.



Spoiler: Bird











JAnonymous5150 said:


> Haha I'll switch to balanced for all official posts and polls so you don't have to be alone, bro!
> 
> I ALWAYS bring my DAPs, my favorite portable (the Gryphon this time), a pair or two of IEMs, a pair of phones if needed, and this year a couple pairs of buds as well when I go to CanJams. You can never be too prepared and you never know what you might run into for demoing purposes.
> 
> ...


Did you manage to try the Hiby RS8.  That is one interesting DAP!  CJ SoCall 2022 was so interesting. Apart from the RS8, the Viking Ragnar and the Odyssey caught my attention also but alas, I am all tapped out!


----------



## koniotaur

Got something today


----------



## Danneq

koniotaur said:


> Got something today



Cool!
My pair is on its way to Sweden.


----------



## koniotaur

Danneq said:


> Cool!
> My pair is on its way to Sweden.


My really early impression is that there's too much treble and bass doesn't hit as hard as on some of EMA, not sure if that's also a lottery on what you get as with EMA, I think it shouldn't be...


----------



## Danneq

koniotaur said:


> My really early impression is that there's too much treble and bass doesn't hit as hard as on some of EMA, not sure if that's also a lottery on what you get as with EMA, I think it shouldn't be...



Let's hope it improves with time.


----------



## iFi audio

WoodyLuvr said:


> My mini-review of the *tgxear Tantalus MMCX; 500ΩBery *by *@tgx78* has been posted over on the new *TGXEAR Discussion thread* *here*.



Wow, what a monster! I suspect that these earbuds have to sound really good to make an effort and use that cable ?


----------



## chavez

koniotaur said:


> My really early impression is that there's too much treble and bass doesn't hit as hard as on some of EMA, not sure if that's also a lottery on what you get as with EMA, I think it shouldn't be...



Smells like.... Female poison tuning... 😐😐😐


----------



## mt877

chavez said:


> Smells like.... Female poison tuning... 😐😐😐


From the EMX product page, this doesn't look like Female poisin tuning. According to TRN It's supposed to be well balanced with good bass response.
I guess whoever purchased should reach out to TRN and see what they have to say.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Mr.HiAudio said:


> _*RIOBuds*_ becomes !
> DIY Project shell mx500



The shells look like cat paws. So cool  



mt877 said:


> From the EMX product page, this doesn't look like Female poisin tuning. According to TRN It's supposed to be well balanced with good bass response.
> I guess whoever purchased should reach out to TRN and see what they have to say.



I wouldn't trust that graph, tbh. That lifted frequency from 2k down is only possible when you completely press the buds against the coupler (your ear canals). The actual measurement in realistic use cases might reveal more than 10db ear gain.

With that being said, what kind of foams are you using @chavez?


----------



## koniotaur

Foams tamed the treble a bit and it's a bit fuller in the lows, not by much but the treble reduction is kinda a blessing tbh. Without foams I had great fit already, with foams pushing them against my ear does nothing.


----------



## mt877 (Sep 19, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> The shells look like cat paws. So cool
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep, we know the FR graphs don't tell the whole story. Even if the FR graph is wonky, hopefully they did their own product listening tests before they published their web product page.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> From the EMX product page, this doesn't look like Female poisin tuning. According to TRN It's supposed to be well balanced with good bass response.
> I guess whoever purchased should reach out to TRN and see what they have to say.


Maybe what @koniotaur is referring to is actual treble boost, rather than pina gain or upper mids/lower treble?! Some are sensitive to mid to upper treble boosts. I can live with some pretty boosted treble (as long as there isn't actual stridency), but overly boosted pina gain is painful to me. Or maybe it is a double shot like the RW3000, where pina gain AND treble is boosted somewhat?!


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Maybe what @koniotaur is referring to is actual treble boost, rather than pina gain or upper mids/lower treble?! Some are sensitive to mid to upper treble boosts. I can live with some pretty boosted treble (as long as there isn't actual stridency), but overly boosted pina gain is painful to me. Or maybe it is a double shot like the RW3000, where pina gain AND treble is boosted somewhat?!


Yeah, hard to speculate. I didn't get these, so I don't have any skin in the game. Just my observations from reading their AE product page. I guess we'll find out more as the guys who bought them give their impressions.


----------



## chavez

o0genesis0o said:


> The shells look like cat paws. So cool
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I dont have them, and by the looks of it wont be getting them 🤣.


----------



## tendou

how is monk lite sound quality? Is it really bad?

The shell is very comfortable for sleeping. I already have the similar shaped qian39


----------



## koniotaur

samandhi said:


> Maybe what @koniotaur is referring to is actual treble boost, rather than pina gain or upper mids/lower treble?! Some are sensitive to mid to upper treble boosts. I can live with some pretty boosted treble (as long as there isn't actual stridency), but overly boosted pina gain is painful to me. Or maybe it is a double shot like the RW3000, where pina gain AND treble is boosted somewhat?!


I'd say I'm pretty treble sensitive. Some planar IEM that's praised by the crowd (Shuoer S12) caused headaches for me.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

tendou said:


> how is monk lite sound quality? Is it really bad?
> 
> The shell is very comfortable for sleeping. I already have the similar shaped qian39



The Monk Lite is a terrible sounding earbud for music IME. No low end, shouty mids, and grainy uneven treble. It sounds exactly like what audiophiles describe the sound of terrible gas station earbuds as when they're explaining to people why earbuds should be ignored completely. If everybody that was curious what earbuds sounded like was given a pair of Monk Lite to try, there would be very few new earbuds users.

That said, for speach based listening like podcasts, Netflixz, and such they'd probably be fine. And, believe it or not, I have read a few reviews of people who enjoy them for music which is one of the things I remind myself of when I need an example of just how didferently individuals can hear.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

koniotaur said:


> I'd say I'm pretty treble sensitive. Some planar IEM that's praised by the crowd (Shuoer S12) caused headaches for me.



The S12s treble has a peak in it that is borderline too hot for many people so you're probably pretty normal. Many planar IEMs seem to have a problem with peaks in the treble. The S12s are fine for me, but the 7hz Timeless has a peak in it's treble that drives me crazy and this is from a guy who is far from sensitive to boosted treble.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> The S12s treble has a peak in it that is borderline too hot for many people so you're probably pretty normal. Many planar IEMs seem to have a problem with peaks in the treble. The S12s are fine for me, but the 7hz Timeless has a peak in it's treble that drives me crazy and this is from a guy who is far from sensitive to boosted treble.





koniotaur said:


> I'd say I'm pretty treble sensitive. Some planar IEM that's praised by the crowd (Shuoer S12) caused headaches for me.


Interesting. The Timeless don't bother me a bit where treble is concerned. I have not heard the S12 though, so I can't comment... But from what I have read the S12 has an overall boosted treble, just not anything as "spikey" AFAIK. I would take more linear (even if boosted), over big spikes any day. Those spikes tend to stand out more even if the overall gain is less than a more linear curve IMHO.


----------



## samandhi

Status update on the Smabat M4 (and drivers). According to AE tracking, they have been sitting in my local post office for the last 5 days, while USPS (actual person) tells me they haven't seen them, only created a label 6 days ago... Well, Poo! I'm glad I am a patient man.... NOT!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Status update on the Smabat M4 (and drivers). According to AE tracking, they have been sitting in my local post office for the last 5 days, while USPS (actual person) tells me they haven't seen them, only created a label 6 days ago... Well, Poo! I'm glad I am a patient man.... NOT!



Mine are out for delivery today after I thought I was going to get them last week and they never showed.


----------



## rcoleman1

Berserker 2 and Grand Archer 1...my first RikuBuds. Quality build and sonic bliss are my early impressions out of my Lotoo PAW Gold Touch Ti. Glad I added these to the collection. More technical impressions after I burn these babies in.


----------



## mt877

There's been a few people posting to this thread about how they have small ears, that they have a hard time fitting IEMs, can't stand over ear headphones and they want to go with earbuds but also have problems with fitting buds as well.

Maybe this is a solution? I was browsing the Walkman blog and this was posted: Sony Off-Ear headphones, WI-OE600. True wireless Off-Ear headphones. According to the Walkman blog, the crowdfunding at indiegogo was a big success and maybe Sony will release them for sale as well?

Here's a couple pictures.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> There's been a few people posting to this thread about how they have small ears, that they have a hard time fitting IEMs, can't stand over ear headphones and they want to go with earbuds but also have problems with fitting buds as well.
> 
> Maybe this is a solution? I was browsing the Walkman blog and this was posted: Sony Off-Ear headphones, WI-OE600. True wireless Off-Ear headphones. According to the Walkman blog, the crowdfunding at indiegogo was a big success and maybe Sony will release them for sale as well?
> 
> Here's a couple pictures.



I used to own a pair of MySphere 3 ear speakers that are a similar idea with a full size headphone kinda design and never could get used to it.

Edit: I would give it another shot in something like this I suppose.


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I used to own a pair of MySphere 3 ear speakers that are a similar idea with a full size headphone kinda design and never could get used to it.
> 
> Edit: I would give it another shot in something like this I suppose.


Yeah, was just a thought to help those folks that are struggling to fit IEMs, fit buds and hate over-ears. They want the intimacy of music in their ears, but are struggling to find a way to do it. These may never even be released for sale, so it's all speculation at this point. From the blog, it was mentioned that Sony is shipping to people that did the crowdfunding though.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> Yeah, was just a thought to help those folks that are struggling to fit IEMs, fit buds and hate over-ears. They want the intimacy of music in their ears, but are struggling to find a way to do it. These may never even be released for sale, so it's all speculation at this point. From the blog, it was mentioned that Sony is shipping to people that did the crowdfunding though.



I commend Sony for putting out something different and I'd actually like to hear what they came up with. It's not a bad idea at all. I mean the AKG K1000s are where the ear speaker design for MySphere started and I still think the K1000s are probably the single best classical music specialist headphone I have ever heard. Point being, the design/idea, if implemented properly, can be quite good. Seeing as how it's Sony behind these, I'm not gonna write them off until I try them or they get released in big enough numbers that some kind of consensus can be reached if I don't.

Good find! I like seeing interesting/different stuff like this.


----------



## tendou

JAnonymous5150 said:


> The Monk Lite is a terrible sounding earbud for music IME. No low end, shouty mids, and grainy uneven treble. It sounds exactly like what audiophiles describe the sound of terrible gas station earbuds as when they're explaining to people why earbuds should be ignored completely. If everybody that was curious what earbuds sounded like was given a pair of Monk Lite to try, there would be very few new earbuds users.
> 
> That said, for speach based listening like podcasts, Netflixz, and such they'd probably be fine. And, believe it or not, I have read a few reviews of people who enjoy them for music which is one of the things I remind myself of when I need an example of just how didferently individuals can hear.


Thanks! Yeah. There are people that really loves them better than other earbuds though they mostly preferrred IEM. Mostly in earbuds community like here people don't really like monk lites.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Yeah, was just a thought to help those folks that are struggling to fit IEMs, fit buds and hate over-ears. They want the intimacy of music in their ears, but are struggling to find a way to do it. These may never even be released for sale, so it's all speculation at this point. From the blog, it was mentioned that Sony is shipping to people that did the crowdfunding though.


I sort of like the idea, because the only other alternative would be bone conduction, but they have not matured in their sound enough to be satisfactory IMO. 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> I commend Sony for putting out something different and I'd actually like to hear what they came up with. It's not a bad idea at all. I mean the AKG K1000s are where the ear speaker design for MySphere started and I still think the K1000s are probably the single best classical music specialist headphone I have ever heard. Point being, the design/idea, if implemented properly, can be quite good. Seeing as how it's Sony behind these, I'm not gonna write them off until I try them or they get released in big enough numbers that some kind of consensus can be reached if I don't.
> 
> Good find! I like seeing interesting/different stuff like this.


They have been on a roll for the last couple of years. I have their Sony Linkbuds, which are actual flathead buds (with a hole in the middle) attached to BT TWS modules. They are actually really good, and I am very glad I decided to get them (though I didn't need them at all. I just saw that there were some actual earbuds (not what they all are calling earbuds) that were wireless.


----------



## samandhi

tendou said:


> Thanks! Yeah. There are people that really loves them better than other earbuds though they mostly preferrred IEM. Mostly in earbuds community like here people don't really like monk lites.


I have never tried them mostly BECAUSE I have not really heard anyone say too many good things about them. Besides, if I want just an OK to a little above average sound, I still have my old (3rd gen) Apple earbuds (from days gone by). They came with my old iPod Photo.


----------



## fooltoque

samandhi said:


> I sort of like the idea, because the only other alternative would be bone conduction, but they have not matured in their sound enough to be satisfactory IMO.
> 
> They have been on a roll for the last couple of years. I have their Sony Linkbuds, which are actual flathead buds (with a hole in the middle) attached to BT TWS modules. They are actually really good, and I am very glad I decided to get them (though I didn't need them at all. I just saw that there were some actual earbuds (not what they all are calling earbuds) that were wireless.


I also really appreciate how Sony has been innovating. I think there must be someone influential in the company with nonstandard ears. I worked for Sony for a year, and they seem to like to hire people with a manic drive to build things to suit their own taste. My seat mate was a genius and idol maniac who's only interest in joining Sony was to find solutions to mange his idol DVD collection (this was over 20 years ago). Sony just let him do whatever he wanted.

I also have the linkbuds, and I could never get them to fit in a way where the edge of the donut doesn't block my ear canal. If I hold them so that the donut hole points towards the ear canal, they sound pretty good for TWS. As it is, for me they are on the same level as airpod3s. 
Sony also has this sort of design.


Spoiler









I've owned the neckband version of this, and I had troubles with connectivity and sound, but I like the idea. 

If they keep going like they are, chances are good they will come up with something amazing. Maybe this new thing is it


----------



## tendou

samandhi said:


> I have never tried them mostly BECAUSE I have not really heard anyone say too many good things about them. Besides, if I want just an OK to a little above average sound, I still have my old (3rd gen) Apple earbuds (from days gone by). They came with my old iPod Photo.


The shell shape is so good for sleeping though


----------



## samandhi

fooltoque said:


> I also really appreciate how Sony has been innovating. I think there must be someone influential in the company with nonstandard ears. I worked for Sony for a year, and they seem to like to hire people with a manic drive to build things to suit their own taste. My seat mate was a genius and idol maniac who's only interest in joining Sony was to find solutions to mange his idol DVD collection (this was over 20 years ago). Sony just let him do whatever he wanted.
> 
> I also have the linkbuds, and I could never get them to fit in a way where the edge of the donut doesn't block my ear canal. If I hold them so that the donut hole points towards the ear canal, they sound pretty good for TWS. As it is, for me they are on the same level as airpod3s.
> Sony also has this sort of design.
> ...


WOW! Those look totally different. I can see where the design for the Linkbuds came from. If they can manage to get the design right, I think they will be a hit. I am just glad that the Linkbuds don't have the signature Sony "house" sound (dark, boomy, etc...).


tendou said:


> The shell shape is so good for sleeping though


I am a side sleeper, so normal buds don't really work for me. Though the Smabat ST10S B&B work well for that because they are over-ear.


----------



## Ronion

This Sony buds are genius really—as long as the don’t have a wonky tonal balance.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> This Sony buds are genius really—as long as the don’t have a wonky tonal balance.


For me they fit perfectly, so there is no wonky sounds going on to my ears. And I agree, they are pretty brilliant IMO also.


----------



## fooltoque

mt877 said:


> There's been a few people posting to this thread about how they have small ears, that they have a hard time fitting IEMs, can't stand over ear headphones and they want to go with earbuds but also have problems with fitting buds as well.
> 
> Maybe this is a solution? I was browsing the Walkman blog and this was posted: Sony Off-Ear headphones, WI-OE600. True wireless Off-Ear headphones. According to the Walkman blog, the crowdfunding at indiegogo was a big success and maybe Sony will release them for sale as well?
> 
> Here's a couple pictures.


They actually remind me a lot of the Bose Sport Open TWS, although these look like they do a better job of positioning the speakers. https://www.soundguys.com/bose-sport-open-earbuds-review-49702/


----------



## mt877 (Sep 19, 2022)

tendou said:


> Thanks! Yeah. There are people that really loves them better than other earbuds though they mostly preferrred IEM. Mostly in earbuds community like here people don't really like monk lites.


Once you get a taste of what outstanding earbuds can sound like, you can't unhear that experience. I think that's what drives people here. Like most of head-fi, this is definitely an enthusiast's thread where people are looking out for buds with exceptional sound foremost. If there are bargain priced buds that perform very well, than that is all the better, but it's not unheard of for people to spend a few hundred dollars or more (or equivalent in other currencies) for some exceptional sounding buds as well. The other end of the spectrum is making your own (DIY) or buying buds from our established DIY maker / sellers that can exceed or get very close to performance of some of the top commercial buds. I don't have or have even listened to music with the VE Monk Lites, but I will say that VE created a "gateway" earbud that are probably acceptable to many people. I'm sure VE would love for every owner of Monk Lites to step up to their better tuned higher tier buds.


----------



## prakasitp

o0genesis0o said:


> Thanks mate! Formula to make one here. It sounds quite decent and seems to jive with casual listeners.
> 
> The cable is Xinhs 8 core with interchangeable plug. It is having 85% discount, which is insane. Highly recommended. I'm going to get another one before the discount ends.


Very interesting cable! does it help to improved the sound in any area?


----------



## o0genesis0o

prakasitp said:


> Very interesting cable! does it help to improved the sound in any area?


It helps you use balanced output from your portable gear, so perhaps the extra power can give hard-to-drive stuffs a bit extra kick. Other than that, I don’t think there is noticeable change. Handling of the cable is quite nice though.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Once you get a taste of what outstanding earbuds can sound like, you can't unhear that experience. I think that's what drives people here. Like most of head-fi, this is definitely an enthusiast's thread where people are looking out for buds with exceptional sound foremost. If there are bargain priced buds that perform very well, than that is all the better, but it's not unheard of for people to spend a few hundred dollars or more (or equivalent in other currencies) for some exceptional sounding buds as well. The other end of the spectrum is making your own (DIY) or buying buds from our established DIY maker / sellers that can exceed or get very close to performance of some of the top commercial buds. I don't have or have even listened to music with the VE Monk Lites, but I will say that VE created a "gateway" earbud that are probably acceptable to many people. I'm sure VE would love for every owner of Monk Lites to step up to their better tuned higher tier buds.


Very well said! Even though earbuds are a niche hobby, there is really a huge variety when you really think about it.


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Very well said! Even though earbuds are a niche hobby, there is really a huge variety when you really think about it.


Almost too much variety in a (good?) way. Most of my bud purchases have come from AE and just looking through AE you're smothered with buds from established to no-name brands. With all that temptation, you could easily dump a lot of money on buds of unknown sound quality to find a few that really shine. And I'm only talking about AE. Other people venture out and buy stuff from Taobao and other venues as well, though I'm pretty sure the same sellers are on multiple marketplaces. Anyway, with all that variety it can definitely be hard to separate the good buds from the poor performers so thanks to the brave ones here who make blind purchases, share their impressions and best buy advice.


----------



## baskingshark (Sep 20, 2022)

mt877 said:


> Almost too much variety in a (good?) way. Most of my bud purchases have come from AE and just looking through AE you're smothered with buds from established to no-name brands. With all that temptation, you could easily dump a lot of money on buds of unknown sound quality to find a few that really shine. And I'm only talking about AE. Other people venture out and buy stuff from Taobao and other venues as well, though I'm pretty sure the same sellers are on multiple marketplaces. Anyway, with all that variety it can definitely be hard to separate the good buds from the poor performers so thanks to the brave ones here who make blind purchases, share their impressions and best buy advice.




Speaking about this, what do our earbud aficionados here vote as the best ever earbud (assuming cost is no concern), in terms of sound quality?

An end game earbud so to speak? Is there such a mythical unicorn?


It might actually save money in the long term getting one end game TOTL earbud, and we stop getting stuck in sidegrade earbud purgatory?


----------



## o0genesis0o (Sep 20, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> An end game earbud so to speak? Is there such a mythical unicorn?



Wild guesses:

TGXear buds
One of those holy cows 600ohm buds
Fiio FF3
Perhaps Zen 2.0?
Edit: forgot to add Rikubuds.


----------



## digititus

baskingshark said:


> Speaking about this, what do our earbud aficionados here vote as the best ever earbud (assuming cost is no concern), in terms of sound quality?
> 
> An end game earbud so to speak? Is there such a mythical unicorn?
> 
> ...


The earbud gods love all of their children equally. Variety is what makes the world (and AE Vendors) a richer place.


----------



## Danneq (Sep 20, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> Speaking about this, what do our earbud aficionados here vote as the best ever earbud (assuming cost is no concern), in terms of sound quality?
> 
> An end game earbud so to speak? Is there such a mythical unicorn?



I don't think anyone has heard them all. When I was into vintage earbuds a few years ago it would have been Sony MDR E484 or Aiwa HP V99. But there are Chinese earbud makers and DIY maker that beat those legendary earbuds.

Moondrop Chaconne beats all vintage earbuds in SQ. Blox TM7 was my first taste in TOTL earbuds from smaller makers and they are still great. I did like Sennheiser MX980/985 but ended up selling both. I never liked Zen 2 and think Zen 1 was far superior.
I've been a fan of Indonesian one man earbud maker Cypherus since I first bought CampFred. For me nothing can beat Red Dragon, which sounds like actual full size headphones and make every other earbud I own sound like tiny earbuds. But it is a custom made pair (I am the second owner) so not for a mass market. If anyone ever is in the Stockholm area you are welcome to send me a PM and we can have a listening session with different earbuds.
I keep checking out TOTL earbuds since I want to find something that comes close to Red Dragon. Nothing does, but sometimes there are nice surprises. Sometimes you get a lemon. Sometimes you grow tired of something that you like and sell it (and then perhaps buy it again).
I really like Chaconne and SWD2+. Am really curious about Rose Martini and Yincrow RW-3000 (didn't like Rose Mojito too much. Kind of liked Yincrow RW-777 but sold it).

I remember when ClieOS removed his earbud ranking in the first post after people were complaining to him that they did not like an earbud that he put high on his list. Different strokes for different folks. Some like a lot of bass. Some like sweet mids. Some like detailed treble...


----------



## o0genesis0o

Danneq said:


> I remember when ClieOS removed his earbud ranking in the first post after people were complaining to him that they did not like an earbud that he put high on his list. Different strokes for different folks. Some like a lot of bass. Some like sweet miss. Some like detailed treble...


True that. I think very few IEMs / headphones / earbuds achieve widespread and durable acclaim. For instance, I have seen U12t being praised as one of the best IEMs on the planet by many, yet I have heard one of the customers at a local hifi store telling the store staffs that U12t is boring and mediocre. I think 64 Audio Trio's tuning trick is very clever, others think it sounds unnatural and uneven. When it comes to technical performance, everything is even mushier. I think Letshuoer S12 is one of the most resolving IEMs out there, my friend thinks it is wonky and meh. 

Perhaps the folks at Campfire Audio do make some sense: there is unlikely a universal taste, so let's try to at least satisfy some listeners out there. (I still don't understand how people can like Solaris, Dorado, and Vega   )


Anyhow, waiting for a meeting at work, so I entertain myself by going shopping for my next DIY projects. I feel like a child in a candy store. I want them all


----------



## christianfps

mt877 said:


> There's been a few people posting to this thread about how they have small ears, that they have a hard time fitting IEMs, can't stand over ear headphones and they want to go with earbuds but also have problems with fitting buds as well.
> 
> Maybe this is a solution? I was browsing the Walkman blog and this was posted: Sony Off-Ear headphones, WI-OE600. True wireless Off-Ear headphones. According to the Walkman blog, the crowdfunding at indiegogo was a big success and maybe Sony will release them for sale as well?
> 
> Here's a couple pictures.


This reminds me of the KOSS KSC75 has anyone tried them here?


----------



## ian91 (Sep 20, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Wild guesses:
> 
> TGXear buds
> One of those holy cows 600ohm buds
> ...




@baskingshark I've not heard every earbud under the sun but TGXear has my vote, especially if you listen to any classical/jazz/blues/acoustic. I'm currently driving the Alpha (an early version) from the Valhalla 2 which is about 480mW at 600ohms.

The Alpha uses a driver that @tgx78 quite rightly identified for its imaging capacity and he has managed to implement it well. The stage height and depth make for an enveloping listen and the image has very little congestion. When driven well the meaty fundamentals and carefully captured harmonics gives a realism of tonality and timbre that's very hard to beat. It reproduces sound like a headphone but with the comfort and form factor we all love.

It's not the airiest listen but we have the Serratus for that, and nonetheless, all the detail _is_ there. I know this is very hyperbolic, but it makes me wonder where I go from here, what's missing? If that question endures over the weeks to come that's how I will know I am in endgame territory. I can't wait to receive the final version of the Alpha. I'm holding back detailed impressions as I don't want to mislead anyone if the final production version is dramatically different.

The level of refinement we are getting from earbuds is making me reassess things. Planar IEMs don't have the ever so natural DD timbre, multi-driver IEMs are very rarely as cohesive nor as expansive and even single DD IEMs present sound rather oddly to my ear. I spent some time in the kilobuck IEM arena and then a very brief moment at the 'summit' with the Traillii and there were still tonal/timbre shortcomings (often appreciated in retrospect). I wish I had realised the value of the earbud earlier but also realise that a journey was necessary to find what I value most - timbre, coherency, tonal balance and plenty of organic texture.

Long live the earbud and long live the passion (or obsession) that drives us!


----------



## dinodogJR

samandhi said:


> They have been on a roll for the last couple of years. I have their Sony Linkbuds, which are actual flathead buds (with a hole in the middle) attached to BT TWS modules. They are actually really good, and I am very glad I decided to get them (though I didn't need them at all. I just saw that there were some actual earbuds (not what they all are calling earbuds) that were wireless.


Sony Linkbuds, how do you graded their sound quality to any earbuds? Is it certified as Mid-budget earphone sounds performance?
I am interested for outdoor activities usage. 
Not sure its Sony going to upgrade this this innovative hole-earbud in near future. Many dislikes of its cumbersome fit. The sales is not as good as it is as the price deduction just a few months from released. 

I am trying B&O EQ with the ANC. It is practically not a perfect ANC to block every sound frequency to dead air inside our ear canal. Anywhere i am using the memory foam tips. 
Strangely how effective is the Sony Linkbuds ANC could against Noise blocking with a middle hole there?


----------



## dinodogJR

christianfps said:


> This reminds me of the KOSS KSC75 has anyone tried them here?


It's really good.. As good as a Grado SR60 mini version. Very closer to that kind of Bright & punchy sound signature. 
There's Beyer Dynamic DT231 which sits well in term of sound quality between Grado Sr60 and Koss KSC75. It was my top favourite light-weight headphone.

I bought it for my dad. He enjoyed it until it failed after years as a daily gear.


----------



## ttorbic

ian91 said:


> @baskingshark I've not heard every earbud under the sun but TGXear has my vote, especially if you listen to any classical/jazz/blues/acoustic. I'm currently driving the Alpha (an early version) from the Valhalla 2 which is about 480mW at 600ohms.
> 
> The Alpha uses a driver that @tgx78 quite rightly identified for its imaging capacity and he has managed to implement it well. The stage height and depth make for an enveloping listen and the image has very little congestion. When driven well the meaty fundamentals and carefully captured harmonics gives a realism of tonality and timbre that's very hard to beat. It reproduces sound like a headphone but with the comfort and form factor we all love.
> 
> ...


Very useful info, thanks for sharing! Looking forward to your thoughts on the production version of the Alpha


----------



## yaps66

dinodogJR said:


> Sony Linkbuds, how do you graded their sound quality to any earbuds? Is it certified as Mid-budget earphone sounds performance?
> I am interested for outdoor activities usage.
> Not sure its Sony going to upgrade this this innovative hole-earbud in near future. Many dislikes of its cumbersome fit. The sales is not as good as it is as the price deduction just a few months from released.
> 
> ...


I have the same Linkbuds that @samandhi has. I use them for taking phone and conference calls.  These do not have any ANC. They essentially let all sound in.  I do not use these out and about as I find them too soft on a noisy street environment.


----------



## baskingshark

Danneq said:


> I don't think anyone has heard them all.



Haha maybe king @WoodyLuvr may have very well caught and heard em all and collected all the earbud pokemon of the world!


----------



## ian91

baskingshark said:


> Haha maybe king @WoodyLuvr may have very well caught and heard em all and collected all the earbud pokemon of the world!



Part of me secretly wants @WoodyLuvr to publish 'A Short History of Earbuds'.


----------



## mt877 (Sep 20, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> Speaking about this, what do our earbud aficionados here vote as the best ever earbud (assuming cost is no concern), in terms of sound quality?
> 
> An end game earbud so to speak? Is there such a mythical unicorn?
> 
> ...


I've found what you're looking for...

The Mythical Unicorn earbuds, the search is over, look no further.



Spoiler: The Mythical Unicorn earbuds


----------



## fooltoque

mt877 said:


> I've found what you're looking for...
> 
> The Mythical Unicorn earbuds, the search is over, look no further.
> 
> ...


It's beautiful!

Unfortunately, I heard that only a virgin can hear the true sound from those buds.


----------



## BCool

christianfps said:


> This reminds me of the KOSS KSC75 has anyone tried them here?


I don't know if it's just me but I found the earhooks to not be very comfortable. Of course I did what pretty much every budding audiophile does and slap a headband and Yaxi pads on them. They still get most of my listening time because they're tuned so well and are so light and comfortable.

If I could get that sound from an earbud, it might be endgame for me.


----------



## samandhi (Sep 20, 2022)

mt877 said:


> Almost too much variety in a (good?) way. Most of my bud purchases have come from AE and just looking through AE you're smothered with buds from established to no-name brands. With all that temptation, you could easily dump a lot of money on buds of unknown sound quality to find a few that really shine. And I'm only talking about AE. Other people venture out and buy stuff from Taobao and other venues as well, though I'm pretty sure the same sellers are on multiple marketplaces. Anyway, with all that variety it can definitely be hard to separate the good buds from the poor performers so thanks to the brave ones here who make blind purchases, share their impressions and best buy advice.


Most of my purchases have also come from AE, and most were also blind buys, though I received much guidance from the fantastic people on this thread. Over the time that I have been here (and even in the beginning), I have found this community to be more invaluable than I could have ever imagined. The comradery and advice has been considered as PART of my journey with each bud (at least in my mind anyhow).

In the end I guess that what I am saying is that without this community, I might still have made some purchases, but with it, it has added more value to my purchases overall that I treasure.


baskingshark said:


> Speaking about this, what do our earbud aficionados here vote as the best ever earbud (assuming cost is no concern), in terms of sound quality?
> 
> An end game earbud so to speak? Is there such a mythical unicorn?
> 
> ...


I WOULD list my end game as the FQL Grand Finale and FQL Blackhole Redux but since they are a one of a kind and cannot be bought anywhere on earth (truly unicorns IMO), I will have to give my thoughts on the others I have.

Having said that, I COULD put all of mine on that list because they all mean something different to me, and I am not getting rid of any one of them at this point (which technically could put them all on the list of "end game").

Though, if I had to choose a limited number, I would say that the Yinman 2.0 600 are TOTL sound for me. I mean with the right amount of power pushing them, there is something truly magical (and addicting) about the sound of these (for me). I would never want to part with these at really any cost.

In the end and because these check so many boxes (even more than the Yinman) that go beyond just the sound, I would also say that the FiiO FF3 are something truly amazing. For sound alone the Yinman tops these (to my ears), but only just. But it is the other things that help factor this "unicorn" for me. The cable is more stout (though CAN get annoying sometimes) and seems to have more longevity, and is modular (how can one truly ask for more?). The fitment is the best of any earbuds I have ever put into my ears. The acoustics (build) is some of the best I have ever heard, and the technicalities of the driver simply add to this. And these are built like a tank (very similar to the Chaconne but smaller overall).

While I have to give much props to Smabat and Yincrow for also being some really grand earbuds, I also have to give another "end game" tag to the Chaconne. The mids and highs on these simply cannot be touched IMO. If those things are most important to you, then these are untouchable. For what they do there is, nor probably will be no other like them. And while some have seen me complain about needing more bass, I have decided that if much more bass were added it would probably ruin the overall sound that these babies produce. Though, I believe that just a very small amount added would help these.


dinodogJR said:


> Sony Linkbuds, how do you graded their sound quality to any earbuds? Is it certified as Mid-budget earphone sounds performance?
> I am interested for outdoor activities usage.
> Not sure its Sony going to upgrade this this innovative hole-earbud in near future. Many dislikes of its cumbersome fit. The sales is not as good as it is as the price deduction just a few months from released.
> 
> ...


I am probably an outlier for these because I actually put the sound quality at a really high level compared to other buds. I would actually put these as top tier sound in the end. Being only AAC or SBC, I was shocked myself at the quality of sound coming into my ears. These do NOT follow the "house" Sony sound at all. They are really clear, and overall balanced, with good bass (for earbuds, but not for IEMs - part of the problem I suspect).

Having said that, they just happen to fit me perfectly, and I get the full sound (including good bass) from these. They are NOT noise cancelling at all, and actually let more sound in than any earbuds because they have a hole in the middle rather than sitting in between your ear canal and the outside world. But I knew this going into it, and I actually sought them out for this quality. I bought them for work. I work in an environment that requires me to hear my surroundings (mechanical rooms, boiler & chiller rooms, construction type settings).

The problem with these is that Sony is a bit ahead of their time (again) with these. The TWS community don't really accept them because they don't seal/isolate outside noise, and the earbud community don't really accept them either for whatever reason (fitment, etc...??). I think there will be another design like this in the years to come, and when they ARE accepted, they will be a big hit. I'm actually kind of surprised that they aren't now; though in a way it doesn't because of what I mentioned earlier about not being noise cancelling (everybody wants that more than anything else nowadays). Though it DOES sort of surprise me that more earbud aficionados have not jumped at these. 


yaps66 said:


> I have the same Linkbuds that @samandhi has. I use them for taking phone and conference calls.  These do not have any ANC. They essentially let all sound in.  I do not use these out and about as I find them too soft on a noisy street environment.


I suppose this must come down (again) to fitment because I find nothing soft about them (granted I use the in-built EQ app to give them a bit of top end).  As for volume, I suppose a repeat is in order (fitment), because I can drown out all but the loudest sounds with mine.


baskingshark said:


> Haha maybe king @WoodyLuvr may have very well caught and heard em all and collected all the earbud pokemon of the world!


That is too good!


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> I've found what you're looking for...
> 
> The Mythical Unicorn earbuds, the search is over, look no further.
> 
> ...


Ask and ye shall receive @baskingshark. 


fooltoque said:


> It's beautiful!
> 
> Unfortunately, I heard that only a virgin can hear the true sound from those buds.


I LOL'ed and just bout shot soda pop through my nose. Thanks for that!


----------



## ian91

BCool said:


> I don't know if it's just me but I found the earhooks to not be very comfortable. Of course I did what pretty much every budding audiophile does and slap a headband and Yaxi pads on them. They still get most of my listening time because they're tuned so well and are so light and comfortable.
> 
> If I could get that sound from an earbud, it might be endgame for me.



Give Serratus a try. It's similar to the KSC75 in its revealing tonality and staging ability and well controlled ear gain but it actually extends much deeper. The KSC75 really has no lower midbass/subbass extension unless you blast it with a hulking amp. That's the last TGXear recommendation of the day now, I promise.


----------



## BCool (Sep 20, 2022)

ian91 said:


> Give Serratus a try. It's similar to the KSC75 in its revealing tonality and staging ability and well controlled ear gain but it actually extends much deeper. The KSC75 really has no lower midbass/subbass extension unless you blast it with a hulking amp. That's the last TGXear recommendation of the day now, I promise.



Thanks! It might have to wait though, I promised my partner no more big tech purchases for a while (I bought a phone, smartwatch and Timeless in the space of a few months) and I've only kinda managed to get around it by getting into DIY. I'll add it to the list with the FF3!

Edit:
Actually, speaking of DIY as this thread is more active, does anyone have recommendations for cheap cables? I'm thinking of using ones without MMCX connectors as the hassle of connecting/disconnecting for early prototypes seems more hassle than it's worth.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 20, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Wild guesses:
> 
> TGXear buds
> One of those holy cows 600ohm buds
> ...





Danneq said:


> I don't think anyone has heard them all. When I was into vintage earbuds a few years ago it would have been Sony MDR E484 or Aiwa HP V99. But there are Chinese earbud makers and DIY maker that beat those legendary earbuds.
> 
> Moondrop Chaconne beats all vintage earbuds in SQ. Blox TM7 was my first taste in TOTL earbuds from smaller makers and they are still great. I did like Sennheiser MX980/985 but ended up selling both. I never liked Zen 2 and think Zen 1 was far superior.
> I've been a fan of Indonesian one man earbud maker Cypherus since I first bought CampFred. For me nothing can beat Red Dragon, which sounds like actual full size headphones and make every other earbud I own sound like tiny earbuds. But it is a custom made pair (I am the second owner) so not for a mass market. If anyone ever is in the Stockholm area you are welcome to send me a PM and we can have a listening session with different earbuds.
> ...


Don't forget about these other god-tier golden era buds:

*Aiwa HP-D9 "King Aiwa" Pipe-Phone; 16Ω
Sony MDR-E282 Nude Turbo II; 16Ω
Sony MDR-E888G Twin Turbo Nude Fontopia; 16Ω
Technics by Panasonic RP-HV100 耳に入る Double Driver; 28Ω*



baskingshark said:


> Speaking about this, what do our earbud aficionados here vote as the best ever earbud (assuming cost is no concern), in terms of sound quality?
> 
> An end game earbud so to speak? Is there such a mythical unicorn?


Definitely think a model from *tgxear* (*@tgx78*), *Blur*, *Cypherus Audio*, *RikuBuds*, or *@FranQL* (unfortunately he only gifts them) would be a worthy consideration for end-game god-tier status.

Also, there is the *PISLO by ArtVano PXVV Piezo-Electric*, *Rose Technics Maria II*, and *Yincrow 天牛 'Heavenly Cow' RW-3000* if you can handle their brighter leanings... and the *Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600 LE*, *Simphonio SW-Dragon 3 Plus (aka "SWD3+")*, and *Venture Electronics 微翼音频 (VE) Sun Copper* if you prefer warmer tunings.


----------



## yaps66 (Sep 20, 2022)

ian91 said:


> Part of me secretly wants @WoodyLuvr to publish 'A Short History of Earbuds'.


That would be cool especially since that go down as part of the written historical record for earbuds. It would be an immense resource for a small section of the audiophile community which is in itself a small community.



samandhi said:


> I suppose this must come down (again) to fitment because I find nothing soft about them (granted I use the in-built EQ app to give them a bit of top end). As for volume, I suppose a repeat is in order (fitment), because I can drown out all but the loudest sounds with mine.


I suppose you are right.  I could also be down to my hearing which is not what is was 40 or so years ago!  In the office environment though, they are plenty loud and I do enjoy the sound out of the Linkbuds.



ian91 said:


> Give Serratus a try. It's similar to the KSC75 in its revealing tonality and staging ability and well controlled ear gain but it actually extends much deeper. The KSC75 really has no lower midbass/subbass extension unless you blast it with a hulking amp. That's the last TGXear recommendation of the day now, I promise.


My Serratus is being built for me so I cannot comment yet.  Another option might be Lancer 1 or Saber 1 from @RikudouGoku


----------



## dinodogJR (Sep 20, 2022)

BCool said:


> I don't know if it's just me but I found the earhooks to not be very comfortable. Of course I did what pretty much every budding audiophile does and slap a headband and Yaxi pads on them. They still get most of my listening time because they're tuned so well and are so light and comfortable.
> 
> If I could get that sound from an earbud, it might be endgame for me.


KCS 75 & Senn PX100/PX200 & Koss Porta Pro were on the Top Choices to budget audiophile boys back to those days.
There's Westone, Shure and UE in the competitive market. And there were high end portable luxurious to minority.

I got mine Koss KCS 75 recabled and it's worth to get fixed. Yet it died again very quickly in a year or so.

Yuin PK2 was my most satisfied game changer in the entire portable listening gear throughout these years.
Believe it or not my PK2 pawns Grado SR60 when connected to iBasso DC05 in every sound performance with my computer.
DAC with Hifi capabilities is uplifting amazing potential from a small buds but not from the Grado SR60 much.
I need to pump up additional 15% volume from SR 60 to get same loudness as good as PK 2.

A rather weird occasion.
**Pardon i am not a technical guy in all these electronic, components or processor inside a DAC.



Spoiler: Sony Linkbuds - SPoiler test



I am probably an outlier for these because I actually put the sound quality at a really high level compared to other buds. I would actually put these as top tier sound in the end. Being only AAC or SBC, I was shocked myself at the quality of sound coming into my ears. These do NOT follow the "house" Sony sound at all. They are really clear, and overall balanced, with good bass (for earbuds, but not for IEMs - part of the problem I suspect).

Having said that, they just happen to fit me perfectly, and I get the full sound (including good bass) from these. They are NOT noise cancelling at all, and actually let more sound in than any earbuds because they have a hole in the middle rather than sitting in between your ear canal and the outside world. But I knew this going into it, and I actually sought them out for this quality. I bought them for work. I work in an environment that requires me to hear my surroundings (mechanical rooms, boiler & chiller rooms, construction type settings).

The problem with these is that Sony is a bit ahead of their time (again) with these. The TWS community don't really accept them because they don't seal/isolate outside noise, and the earbud community don't really accept them either for whatever reason (fitment, etc...??). I think there will be another design like this in the years to come, and when they ARE accepted, they will be a big hit. I'm actually kind of surprised that they aren't now; though in a way it doesn't because of what I mentioned earlier about not being noise cancelling (everybody wants that more than anything else nowadays). Though it DOES sort of surprise me that more earbud aficionados have not jumped at these.


yaps66 said:


> You are the very least person seems to appreciate Sony Hole in the earphone. I was so excited when i saw the design. 9 out of 10 youtubers review are complainted it as a "gimmicks" invention. Not many praised for its sound quality. All they are good its made silly fun of its drop out. Nobody wants to talk bout its sound quality in professional remarks anymore.
> Guess you are the first person i came across said it is as good as Airpods. Then i can confidently said it is Really GOOD sound quality for a TWS within this price range.
> 
> Sony Linkbuds solved specific environmental issues for me as a frequent outdoor runner. I don't like that overpricey Aftershokz bone conductor makes me looks like too much "weight" over my small face. Also too many faulty issues i read about them less than a year. Totally lost my interest with that earphones suppose to be a durable sportsman gadget.
> ...


----------



## Danneq (Sep 20, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Don't forget about these other god-tier golden era buds:
> 
> *Aiwa HP-D9 "King Aiwa" Pipe-Phone; 16Ω
> Sony MDR-E282 Nude Turbo II; 16Ω
> ...



I used to own MDR-E282. Also E252 and E575 (or was it 565?). And Aiwa HP D9.
Aiwa D9 has a wonderful and huge soundstage and a sort of thin sound without being sibilant or sharp. But I prefer some of the more modern earbuds.
The only vintage one I could never buy, because of the high second hand prices, was Aiwa HP-V9. Once I stopped bidding at around €600 on an eBay auction for a pair of V9, and I think it ended at over €800...


----------



## Oscarilbo

Hi guys. Do you think Moondrop Chaconne is an endgame for orchestral/instrumental music? Is there is any other better for this genere? And I'm referring to comercial earbuds because DIY or Custom made are very difficult to me to get access and pay here in my country. Need to buy from Amazon (preferible).


----------



## ttorbic

Oscarilbo said:


> Hi guys. Do you think Moondrop Chaconne is an endgame for orchestral/instrumental music? Is there is any other better for this genere? And I'm referring to comercial earbuds because DIY or Custom made are very difficult to me to get access and pay here in my country. Need to buy from Amazon (preferible).


If you don't mind me asking, where are you based? There are quite a few DIYers sprinkled around the world, so I would be surprised if you can't find a suitable DIY supplier. As the guru @RikudouGoku always tells me, DIY buds have a much higher price/performance than commercial ones


----------



## Oscarilbo

ttorbic said:


> If you don't mind me asking, where are you based? There are quite a few DIYers sprinkled around the world, so I would be surprised if you can't find a suitable DIY supplier. As the guru @RikudouGoku always tells me, DIY buds have a much higher price/performance than commercial ones


Well, tbh I prefer Amazon because there I can purchase on monthly payment, which makes it easy for me since I've been having lots of expenses lately.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 20, 2022)

Danneq said:


> I used to own MDR-E282. Also E252 and E575 (or was it 565?). And Aiwa HP D9.
> Aiwa D9 has a wonderful and huge soundstage and a sort of thin sound without being sibilant or sharp. But I prefer some of the more modern earbuds.
> The only vintage one I could never buy, because of the high second hand prices, was Aiwa HP-V9. Once I stopped bidding at around €600 on an eBay auction for a pair of V9, and I think it ended at over €800...


You didn't miss anything with the HP-V9... really. That was money saved in my humble opinion as the HP-D9 was much better as were the HP-V88 and HP-V99 Super PowerBass models as well as the later HP-V741 and HP-V743 Fantasy Bass models. They all out performed the HP-V9. I personally always liked the HP-D9 best... although it's bass was lighter (more restrained) it's mids and highs were clearer to me (more resolute)... it had the exact same 60mm pipe as the HP-V88/99 but a larger, more sensitive 16mm driver that could handle more power. I also liked the older Aiwa HP-V3 Big Red Super but for more nostalgic reasons.

1983​Aiwa HP-V3 Big Red Super - Inner Ear Mini Stereo Headphones; 32Ω (w/ volume control; travel case)​
1986​Aiwa HP-V9 Digital; 16Ω (15mm driver w/ volume control; mono/stereo switch)​​1988​Aiwa HP-V88 Super PowerBass Pipe-Phone; 16Ω (15mm driver w/ 60mm U-shaped acoustic resonance pipe)​Aiwa HP-V99 Super PowerBass Pipe-Phone; 16Ω (15mm driver w/ 60mm U-shaped acoustic resonance pipe)​​1990​Aiwa HP-D9 Pipe-Phone for Digital; 16Ω (aka King Aiwa; 16mm driver w/ 60mm U-shaped acoustic resonance pipe)​​1995​Aiwa HP-V741 Fantasy Bass - Duo Bass Boost Flute-Phone; 16Ω (aka 95 Gold Holes w/ Double Gold Small Holes; 45mm acoustic U-shaped bass pipe)​Aiwa HP-V743 Fantasy Bass - Duo Bass Boost Flute-Phone; 16Ω (aka 95 Gold Holes w/ Double Gold Small Holes; 45mm acoustic U-shaped bass pipe; volume control)​
I totally concur with you... modern earbuds overall sound and perform better to my ears as well.


----------



## jeejack

ttorbic said:


> If you don't mind me asking, where are you based? There are quite a few DIYers sprinkled around the world, so I would be surprised if you can't find a suitable DIY supplier. As the guru @RikudouGoku always tells me, DIY buds have a much higher price/performance than commercial ones


😁😁 You are funny. What does guru mean to you?


----------



## samandhi (Sep 20, 2022)

Oscarilbo said:


> Hi guys. Do you think Moondrop Chaconne is an endgame for orchestral/instrumental music? Is there is any other better for this genere? And I'm referring to comercial earbuds because DIY or Custom made are very difficult to me to get access and pay here in my country. Need to buy from Amazon (preferible).


IMHO I think there is NO better to be had for that type of music. Though I will have to add that the Yincrow RW3000 can come close. I am also of the opinion that not only are those end game in the earbud realm for that type of music, but I haven't heard ANY head gear that sounds as good.... But as always, I have to mention that YMMV.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 20, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Though, if I had to choose a limited number, I would say that the *Yinman 2.0 600* are TOTL sound for me. I mean with the right amount of power pushing them, there is something truly magical (and addicting) about the sound of these (for me). I would never want to part with these at really any cost.


I feel the same. I have my Blur OFC PK150 Wraith LE; 150Ω and Longyao-Yinman 2.0 600 LE; 600Ω sitting here while I am comparing them to my new tgxear Tantalus MMCX; 500Ω... there is just something special about them all. The Tantalus are "smooth criminal timbre monsters". The Yinman are "dark, romantic, & magical" as you have so eloquently stated. And the Wraith have this "simple effortlessness" and "perfect fit" about them that are so pleasing to me.


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> I feel the same. I have my Blur OFC PK150 Wraith LE; 150Ω and Longyao-Yinman 2.0 600 LE; 600Ω sitting here while I am comparing them to my new tgxear Tantalus MMCX; 500Ω... there is just something special about them all. The Tantalus are "timbre monsters". The Yinman are "magical & romantic" as you have so eloquently stated. And the Wraith have this "simple effortlessness" about them that are so pleasing to me.


Isn't it always the best feeling when you finally (most times) stumble across something so good, that you just can't believe it, and think you MUST be the luckiest person in the world? Well, that is the feeling I get when that happens... lol


----------



## Setmagic

ttorbic said:


> If you don't mind me asking, where are you based? There are quite a few DIYers sprinkled around the world, so I would be surprised if you can't find a suitable DIY supplier. As the guru @RikudouGoku always tells me, DIY buds have a much higher price/performance than commercial ones


Don't say like that. There are a lot of old DIYers here and this content is sensitive for us.


----------



## Ronion

Right now if I had to say 1 was the best of the best, I’d actually say it’s the FiiO FF3.  With that said, I don’t really think it exists.  There’s just too many flavors of GREAT.  I love my tuning of the PK2 driver which measures essentially the same but with a bit more treble and a lot less bass.  For acoustic music, I’d pick my PK2.  Tonal balance is critical for me.  It’s the king of metrics:subjective or objective.  The FiiO is generally too bassy when the pinna gain is pristine, but if there was one end of the spectrum that I prefer boosted, it’s the low end.  The FiiO remains tight at all settings(foams).  Really difficult to criticize even though I have buds that are a bit more even handed, ones that are a bit more detailed, ones with a bigger soundstage, but this one gets it all.  Gotta run, break is over.


----------



## drewbadour (Sep 20, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> Speaking about this, what do our earbud aficionados here vote as the best ever earbud (assuming cost is no concern), in terms of sound quality?
> 
> An end game earbud so to speak? Is there such a mythical unicorn?
> 
> ...


For me, it's @tgx78 's Serratus. I haven't heard else quite like it regardless of type, be it a bud, headphone, or IEM. There's something magical about it. Timbre is spot on, details, separation, center-imaging, tonality all are best in class. The only "weakness" is that it demands my attention and it tends to suck me into the music more than I can afford during work hours! I had the same problem with the U12T but unlike the U12T, Serratus actually has good timbre (phenomenal timbre tbh) while U12T timbre is a bit wonky to my ears. tgx's Alpha actually exceeds the Serratus for certain genres due to an even more beautiful timbre and goes blow for blow with Serratus in terms of technicalities. Where Alpha falls behind Serratus is in bass quantity which in my book is really needed to be an all-rounder. If I could only pick one - it would be Serratus is hands down.

During work hours or when it's closer to bed time, basically when I want something less "distracting," I'd take the Longyao Yinman 600 or @RikudouGoku 's Saber 1/Grand Rider 1.


----------



## Oscarilbo

Wow so the PK2/PK1 still a thing? I remember I owned the PK2 about ten years ago and really surprised me how good it sounded.


----------



## ian91

drewbadour said:


> Where Alpha falls behind Serratus is in bass quantity which in my book is really needed to be an all-rounder.



I thought this on first impression but it does have decent rumble in the sub on Why So Serious by Hans Zimmer and decent percussive impact on my amp. The Serratus gives up the bass extension more easily though.


----------



## Ronion

Oscarilbo said:


> Wow so the PK2/PK1 still a thing? I remember I owned the PK2 about ten years ago and really surprised me how good it sounded.


I just have the drivers that I carefully tuned myself.  They have one of the most natural presentations I’ve heard.  They do lack deep bass, but just a great balanced sound otherwise.  I have no idea how they compare to the original.  I know they still sell a PK2, but ai believe it’s a completely different driver that is said to be inferior.  I cannot validate the rumors.


----------



## weexisttocease

Which portable amp you could recommend for power hungry earbuds. My DX320 with modded Amp12 or even the DX240 drives them beautifully. The PXVV sings with the DTR1+ but more headroom is always welcome. I was thinking in the Aroma Audio A100TB or the upcoming Xduoo XD-05Pro.


----------



## syazwaned (Sep 20, 2022)

Oscarilbo said:


> Hi guys. Do you think Moondrop Chaconne is an endgame for orchestral/instrumental music? Is there is any other better for this genere? And I'm referring to comercial earbuds because DIY or Custom made are very difficult to me to get access and pay here in my country. Need to buy from Amazon (preferible).


get Grand Archer rikubuds, it is 200 usd cheaper than Chaconne.

To add some more, Chaconne is heavy, and not comfortable for long listening session


----------



## syazwaned

weexisttocease said:


> Which portable amp you could recommend for power hungry earbuds. My DX320 with modded Amp12 or even the DX240 drives them beautifully. The PXVV sings with the DTR1+ but more headroom is always welcome. I was thinking in the Aroma Audio A100TB or the upcoming Xduoo XD-05Pro.



I been waiting for xd05 pro as well. It might on the larger size of portable, like Idsd Signature.

Topping Nx7 is also good, 1.4 w @ 32 ohm.
then, there is Kaei Tap1s, hybrid tube amp , 1.05 w @ 32 ohms.
 Centrance Ampersand has 3w @ 45 ohm, though it is very expensive.


----------



## weexisttocease

syazwaned said:


> I been waiting for xd05 pro as well. It might on the larger size of portable, like Idsd Signature.
> 
> Topping Nx7 is also good, 1.4 w @ 32 ohm.
> then, there is Kaei Tap1s, hybrid tube amp , 1.05 w @ 32 ohms.
> Centrance Ampersand has 3w @ 45 ohm, though it is very expensive.



Thanks for the advice. There's no official specs for the XD-05Pro yet, maybe in a few weeks. The A100TB is relatively compact (121x69x30mm) and have and the following specs:

320mW - 16 Ω
530mW - 32 Ω
860mW - 100 Ω
310mW - 300 Ω
160mW - 600 Ω


----------



## syazwaned

weexisttocease said:


> Thanks for the advice. There's no official specs for the XD-05Pro yet, maybe in a few weeks. The A100TB is relatively compact (121x69x30mm) and have and the following specs:
> 
> 320mW - 16 Ω
> 530mW - 32 Ω
> ...


 
Considering it size, 310 mw @ 300 ohms is very powerful. Plus at swappable op amp thingy.


----------



## assassin10000

dinodogJR said:


> Sony Linkbuds, how do you graded their sound quality to any earbuds? Is it certified as Mid-budget earphone sounds performance?
> I am interested for outdoor activities usage.
> Not sure its Sony going to upgrade this this innovative hole-earbud in near future. Many dislikes of its cumbersome fit. The sales is not as good as it is as the price deduction just a few months from released.
> 
> ...



ANC is non-existent on the linkbuds.

If you want a more earbud like sound for out and about, I'd get the Samsung buds live.


I've had both but only kept the buds live. Since I'm on Android I use wavelet to eq them to my liking.


----------



## drewbadour

Does anyone have an experience with some of the more popular DIY (or as I like to call it, "artisan") buds as well as the Yincrow RW-3000?
I'm super interested in the Holy Cow and would be curious to hear how it stacks up against something like the TGX or RikuBuds.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> I just have the drivers that I carefully tuned myself.  They have one of the most natural presentations I’ve heard.  They do lack deep bass, but just a great balanced sound otherwise.  I have no idea how they compare to the original.  I know they still sell a PK2, but ai believe it’s a completely different driver that is said to be inferior.  I cannot validate the rumors.



You can guy the PK1 over on Penon Audio as of a couple weeks ago. Ultimately I liked the PK2 better, but the 1, 2, and 3 all ended up getting given to a friend who loves Yuin buds because they weren't really my thing.


----------



## samandhi

It looks like my (incompetent) local mail service has found my package (Smabat M4, and 2 drivers), and should be delivered tomorrow (according to their tracking, but who knows right??). 

Hope I am not coming across too bitter?! LOL

I mean delivery services in some places have become a joke (though I AM grateful that they at least exist). I mean take a towing service for instance. For every day that the vehicle sits in a towing yard, we have to pay more money. Maybe we should implement a pay system where, for every day that a package is late (because of the delivery service), that particular delivery service has to pay part of the total expense of that package's cost. So, in essence you would not pay the bill until receipt of the item, minus whatever the delivery service owes. I mean we (the customer) still pay for the service regardless of the level of competence/incompetence. I know, I know this would never work for many reasons. Just a thought.


----------



## baydude

Can someone recommend best earbuds for under $50?


----------



## drewbadour

baydude said:


> Can someone recommend best earbuds for under $50?


X6, qian39, vido, or at 50$ just get RikuBuds


----------



## jeejack

baydude said:


> Can someone recommend best earbuds for under $50?


With 50 dollars you can buy whatever drivers you want from 32 ohm (you buy them all) to 600 ohm and make your own buds. Then you tell us which one is the best


----------



## samandhi

baydude said:


> Can someone recommend best earbuds for under $50?


That is an awfully wide and general request. Nobody here knows what you are looking for. And the BEST at any price point will be different for pretty much everyone here.

Having said that, you will get better results if you take a bit of time and answer the questionnaire by following the link. 

Post in thread 'Earbuds Round-Up' https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16830527


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 21, 2022)

Ronion said:


> I just have the drivers that I carefully tuned myself.  They have one of the most natural presentations I’ve heard.  They do lack deep bass, but just a great balanced sound otherwise.  I have no idea how they compare to the original.  I know they still sell a PK2, but ai believe it’s a completely different driver that is said to be inferior.  I cannot validate the rumors.





JAnonymous5150 said:


> You can guy the PK1 over on Penon Audio as of a couple weeks ago. Ultimately I liked the PK2 better, but the 1, 2, and 3 all ended up getting given to a friend who loves Yuin buds because they weren't really my thing.


*FYI* - I have personally owned and/or heard Penon's currently offered Yuin PK & OK series models (a few different times from 2018-2020) and although nice sounding (with a touch of the original Yuin house sound and tuning) they do not sound the same as the original 2006 Yuin PK series (PK1 PK2 PK3) nor the original 2008 Yuin OK series (OK1 OK2 OK3... which I preferred and liked better... I was an odd ball about this series). Definitely entirely different drivers being deployed here.

The original Yuin PK and OK series models are/were much better than the current offering but those drivers were very unique... many of the old timers will recall the immediate supply issues these drivers faced shortly after their release and thus offers one reason why the OK series was launched in 2008. That all said, I really think earbuds and the newer available drivers have advanced considerably now... enough to not really warrant a chase or hunt down for 2006 or 2008 Yuins.

No idea what driver is being used in the new Yuin PKE reboot but doubtful that it is the same as the 2006 PK1 or 2008 OK1 driver but rather more than likely the same replacement driver in the relaunched Yuin OK1 version offered by Penon or perhaps an even newer driver:

2022 - Oak Leaf Audio Yuin PK Evolution; 150Ω (aka Yuin PKE; an official Yuin PK1 re-release)​2022 - Yuin PK Evolution; 150Ω (aka Yuin PKE; official Yuin PK1 re-release also under Oak Leaf Audio branding)​


----------



## syazwaned

jeejack said:


> With 50 dollars you can buy whatever drivers you want from 32 ohm (you buy them all) to 600 ohm and make your own buds. Then you tell us which one is the best


not everyone has the time and resources to do that


----------



## Ronion

I retuned the EA buds tonight just to see if I could get the weird vocal sound out of them.  I was fairly successful.  Though this is a fairly insane V-shape tuning, this works much better for these buds than the stock tuning.  The stock tuning for these buds makes it sounds like everyone has a stuffy nose--or an unusual 'head' voice.  The problem is the height of the 2kHz peak.  You can remove it by drilling holes, but it also gives you the mid bass bump.  These buds are already too bloated, but what can you do?  I could open them up and start from scratch, but I'm afraid of damaging them as I'm unfamiliar with the shell.  So in any case, the normal way to do such a thing would be to drill a hold in either the back of the shell or underneath the stem.  I didn't measure any difference  drilling into the back of this shell with any rational sized bit(maybe they have a foam underneath the shell on the back?), so I tried the latter with success.  I ended up doing two holes and leaving the pinna gain a bit to high to test my "when foams get softer, they reduce pinna gain" theory.  It's worked on the last 2 buds and I've decided I'm going to tune buds a bit hot from this day forward.  So this is where this is starting:




The dark blue line is where we started.  You know my philosophy: I've one end is going to have too much output, I'd rather it be the bass.  You can see the original had less mid bass and more deep bass.  Those changes are audible but less harmful than they look.  The pinna gain change is a huge step in the right direction, though not an ideal shape.  I think the ideal shape should be a bit closer to what FiiO has done with the FF3 or what I did with the PK2 driver.  Here's how it stacks up against those:



When I tuned the 500Be to a fairly similar curve, it destroys this driver in the technicalities department.  Nonetheless, this is enjoyable at the moment.


----------



## Ronion (Sep 21, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> *FYI* - I have personally owned and/or heard Penon's currently offered Yuin PK & OK series models (a few different times from 2018-2020) and although nice sounding (with a touch of the original Yuin house sound and tuning) they do not sound the same as the original 2006 Yuin PK series (PK1 PK2 PK3) nor the original 2008 Yuin OK series (OK1 OK2 OK3... which I preferred and liked better... I was an odd ball about this series). Definitely entirely different drivers being deployed here.
> 
> The original Yuin PK and OK series models are/were much better than the current offering but those drivers were very unique... many of the old timers will recall the immediate supply issues these drivers faced shortly after their release and thus offers one reason why the OK series was launched in 2008. That all said, I really think earbuds and the newer available drivers have advanced considerably now... enough to not really warrant a chase or hunt down for 2006 or 2008 Yuins.
> 
> ...


Absolutely agree @WoodyLuvr.  This driver isn't the best by any stretch.  It doesn't have the largest soundstage or the highest resolution.  That said, I do enjoy it immensely the way I have it tuned now.  It's not a resolution slouch, but not up to the best of modern drivers.  It hangs with the cheap ones rather well however.  There's something rather "analog" about it.  It's so comfortable in the ear as well.  I say it's a lot like hugging a friendly woman with large, pillowy _________ sweater on.  It's a sensation you can enjoy all day, over and over again.

Anyone hear any news on the FF5?  I've been searching but I didn't find anything.


----------



## Ronion

Ronion said:


> I retuned the EA buds tonight just to see if I could get the weird vocal sound out of them.  I was fairly successful.  Though this is a fairly insane V-shape tuning, this works much better for these buds than the stock tuning.  The stock tuning for these buds makes it sounds like everyone has a stuffy nose--or an unusual 'head' voice.  The problem is the height of the 2kHz peak.  You can remove it by drilling holes, but it also gives you the mid bass bump.  These buds are already too bloated, but what can you do?  I could open them up and start from scratch, but I'm afraid of damaging them as I'm unfamiliar with the shell.  So in any case, the normal way to do such a thing would be to drill a hold in either the back of the shell or underneath the stem.  I didn't measure any difference  drilling into the back of this shell with any rational sized bit(maybe they have a foam underneath the shell on the back?), so I tried the latter with success.  I ended up doing two holes and leaving the pinna gain a bit to high to test my "when foams get softer, they reduce pinna gain" theory.  It's worked on the last 2 buds and I've decided I'm going to tune buds a bit hot from this day forward.  So this is where this is starting:
> 
> The dark blue line is where we started.  You know my philosophy: I've one end is going to have too much output, I'd rather it be the bass.  You can see the original had less mid bass and more deep bass.  Those changes are audible but less harmful than they look.  The pinna gain change is a huge step in the right direction, though not an ideal shape.  I think the ideal shape should be a bit closer to what FiiO has done with the FF3 or what I did with the PK2 driver.  Here's how it stacks up against those:
> 
> When I tuned the 500Be to a fairly similar curve, it destroys this driver in the technicalities department.  Nonetheless, this is enjoyable at the moment.


Oh, you may think that a bud that measures like this would have more kick than the FiiO.  Well, it doesn't.  The FiiO is the middle line at 100Hz and it kicks like a mule.  Everyone says that you "feel" the 100Hz kick.  Well it's true, but you feel it more from the overall better design.  I only have guesses as to why that is, but lets just say that the FiiO outperforms what a simple frequency response graph lets on.  The FiiO is the closest thing to a skull rattle I've heard in a bud though it doesn't really measure that way.  I Have several that measure to have more bass and a couple of them deeper as well...... Thank goodness there's more to this than what a frequency response graph can tell you.  Otherwise we could auto EQ everything to sound the same.


----------



## 4ceratops

baydude said:


> Can someone recommend best earbuds for under $50?


I would add RY4S MMCX PLUS. Unfortunately you won't find reviews for them, but I consider them qualitatively comparable to the Yincrow X6.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> I retuned the EA buds tonight just to see if I could get the weird vocal sound out of them.  I was fairly successful.  Though this is a fairly insane V-shape tuning, this works much better for these buds than the stock tuning.  The stock tuning for these buds makes it sounds like everyone has a stuffy nose--or an unusual 'head' voice.  The problem is the height of the 2kHz peak.  You can remove it by drilling holes, but it also gives you the mid bass bump.  These buds are already too bloated, but what can you do?  I could open them up and start from scratch, but I'm afraid of damaging them as I'm unfamiliar with the shell.  So in any case, the normal way to do such a thing would be to drill a hold in either the back of the shell or underneath the stem.  I didn't measure any difference  drilling into the back of this shell with any rational sized bit(maybe they have a foam underneath the shell on the back?), so I tried the latter with success.  I ended up doing two holes and leaving the pinna gain a bit to high to test my "when foams get softer, they reduce pinna gain" theory.  It's worked on the last 2 buds and I've decided I'm going to tune buds a bit hot from this day forward.  So this is where this is starting:
> 
> The dark blue line is where we started.  You know my philosophy: I've one end is going to have too much output, I'd rather it be the bass.  You can see the original had less mid bass and more deep bass.  Those changes are audible but less harmful than they look.  The pinna gain change is a huge step in the right direction, though not an ideal shape.  I think the ideal shape should be a bit closer to what FiiO has done with the FF3 or what I did with the PK2 driver.  Here's how it stacks up against those:
> 
> When I tuned the 500Be to a fairly similar curve, it destroys this driver in the technicalities department.  Nonetheless, this is enjoyable at the moment.



What is EA buds? Earphone Anonymous?

The stock tuning looks similar to my metal shell buds without any thing to close the hole at the back: very high muddy bass, then sharp dip between 1–2k, and then sharp ear gain. Closing the hole flattens the whole signature. 

Anyhow, I found recently that when the bass hole is small (around 1.2mm max), ear gain gets smaller (or bass get bigger, depending on perspective). However, if the hole gets larger (2-3mm), the ear gain starts to rise. I use this trick to squeeze more upper midrange out of the 64ohm Ti composite driver. 

Adding more horse shoe foams can help controlling the midbass. Combining large bass holes with stacking HS finally makes 64 ohm Ti composite a (sub-)bass canon but with clear and open midrange. 

Still not as good as FF3, though.


----------



## Ronion

It’s earbuds anonymous….  Not to be confused with @JAnonymous5150.  You can tell by the shape of this bud’s curve that it is choked.  In truth, I should open it up and retune it, but it’s too much work for this driver.  Of course if a damaged the driver, it’s a cool shell for something more inspiring LOL.  I’d also prefer to start with a fresh shell.  That’s a personal issue of mine.  These buds are definitely not horrible now, but they are nothing to get hung about.  A great $25 bud after the simple retune if a warm V is your thing.


----------



## samandhi

I finally got my Smabat M4 today (with the two extra drivers). I will give my impressions (and maybe some comparisons) in another post. Suffice to say that the M4 (with the same SO 100ohm bio driver) sounds VERY different from the M2s Pro with the same driver in it. But for now, here are some pix (for those living under a rock and have never seen them before lol):



Spoiler: DX300 > Amp11.2 card > Smabat M4 > SO 100ohm bio driver


----------



## mt877 (Sep 21, 2022)

samandhi said:


> I finally got my Smabat M4 today (with the two extra drivers). I will give my impressions (and maybe some comparisons) in another post. Suffice to say that the M4 (with the same SO 100ohm bio driver) sounds VERY different from the M2s Pro with the same driver in it. But for now, here are some pix (for those living under a rock and have never seen them before lol):
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: DX300 > Amp11.2 card > Smabat M4 > SO 100ohm bio driver


Nice! Now I don't have to feel like the M4 lone wolf around here. LOL.

So you have a Super One driver for your ST20Pro buds is what you're saying right? I'm sure you'll compare M4 ST10s B&G driver vs real ST10s buds. I said they sounded the same to me. I wonder what you'll hear. I do know that you have to screw down the M4 drivers completely or you don't get a good o-ring seal. One of the small o-ring fell out of the driver and was laying in the box under the foam for one of my driver sets, so double check the very small o-ring is installed in the drivers threaded area.


----------



## Oscarilbo

Btw, any info about the size of the Dynamic Driver used on the Chaconne? no that is important, but just out of curiosity. Haven't found info about it.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Oscarilbo said:


> Btw, any info about the size of the Dynamic Driver used on the Chaconne? no that is important, but just out of curiosity. Haven't found info about it.



Housing: Machined titanium alloy "TC4" for aircraft, gold-plated brass front housing
Cable: 4N silver plated & 6N OCC (litz wire)
Liquid crystal polymer (LCP) and polyurethane laminate diaphragms used in satellites and jet engines
Driver: *13.5 mm dynamic liquid crystal polymer (LCP) diaphragm, external magnet*
The name CHACONNE comes from the title of the 5th movement of Bach's Sonata and Partita No. 2 for unaccompanied violin. With a focus on natural sound and sophisticated design, the Suigetsu flagship model was completed over the course of two years after repeated new challenges. The CHACONNE is rich and dynamic, yet delivers the same stable bass as before, a vast soundstage and presence, and a natural and delicate sound.


----------



## Oscarilbo

WoodyLuvr said:


> Housing: Machined titanium alloy "TC4" for aircraft, gold-plated brass front housing
> Cable: 4N silver plated & 6N OCC (litz wire)
> Liquid crystal polymer (LCP) and polyurethane laminate diaphragms used in satellites and jet engines
> Driver: *13.5 mm dynamic liquid crystal polymer (LCP) diaphragm, external magnet*
> The name CHACONNE comes from the title of the 5th movement of Bach's Sonata and Partita No. 2 for unaccompanied violin. With a focus on natural sound and sophisticated design, the Suigetsu flagship model was completed over the course of two years after repeated new challenges. The CHACONNE is rich and dynamic, yet delivers the same stable bass as before, a vast soundstage and presence, and a natural and delicate sound.


Thank you! I really missed that! great size for earbuds, specially compared to many IEMs


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Nice! Now I don't have to feel like the M4 lone wolf around here. LOL.
> 
> So you have a Super One driver for your ST20Pro buds is what you're saying right? I'm sure you'll compare M4 ST10s B&G driver vs real ST10s buds. I said they sounded the same to me. I wonder what you'll hear. I do know that you have to screw down the M4 drivers completely or you don't get a good o-ring seal. One of the small o-ring fell out of the driver and was laying in the box under the foam for one of my driver sets, so double check the very small o-ring is installed in the drivers threaded area.


LOL I hear ya' there. 

I don't have the St20 Pro. I have the Super One driver for the M2s Pro, and (now) the M4. Yes, I plan on comparing the ST10S with the M4 using the 150Ti driver also.  I will also be comparing the stock (40ohm) driver to both 40ohm drivers (Ti and LCP) with the M2s Pro. 

You know, before I read your post, when I opened the box with the 150Ti driver, I also noticed the same thing (only one ring was "rogue"). Something for all the new owners to make sure to scrutinize. The others were all intact though.


----------



## digititus

Heads up for Fiio EM5 users (literally). I wear some buds cable over ear as they are a more stable fit for me. Smabat ST-10s and Yincrow RW1000 work especially well in this configuration. The EM5 isn't a bad fit when used cable down, but it isn't that stable either so today I gave it a try over ear. Looking at the design you would think this would never work which is probably why I never attempted it before, but with my ears it is really stable and comfortable. Soundwise, I don't notice anything different. I can turn my head side to side and move around freely without having to keep adjusting the fit (chin slider assistance helps here). So, if you have fit issues with the EM5 it may be worth a try cable over ear.

With all the talk of the FF3, some love for the EM5 needed. One of the most versatile and enjoyable phones in my collection.


----------



## samandhi (Sep 21, 2022)

samandhi said:


> I finally got my Smabat M4 today (with the two extra drivers). I will give my impressions (and maybe some comparisons) in another post. Suffice to say that the M4 (with the same SO 100ohm bio driver) sounds VERY different from the M2s Pro with the same driver in it. But for now, here are some pix (for those living under a rock and have never seen them before lol):
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: DX300 > Amp11.2 card > Smabat M4 > SO 100ohm bio driver


VERY early impressions: I absolutely love the case that comes with these. They should have been using this one all this time IMO. It is a semi-hard shell, with a (very easy to move) zipper. And the Cable that comes with this is the best one they have included with any of the Smabat buds I have tried thus far.

I really like the fabric material on the M2s Pro cable because it makes the cable super pliable, but it is so thin and light that it actually gets tangled or caught on itself (sticks together). The new cable is plastic coated, making it less pliable, but I wouldn't call it as stubborn as the FiiO FF3. It also simply looks more "high end" than the others. The MMCX connect to the earbuds much like iBasso cables do in their IEMs; VERY tight (so tight, that I had to press REALLY hard on the left one to get it to click), and they don't swivel at all (on my units). But there is NO chin slider on this new cable (how odd).

For the look of the buds themselves, they look exactly like the M2s Pro, but a tad bigger in all dimensions (the shell part), and with different coloring. They actually look a bit more (to use the word again) elegant than the M2s Pro. They are probably the same materials so I don't find them to be much heavier than the M2s Pro or the ST10S (even though those are quite a bit bigger).

Finally, an easy modular system to use. It REALLY is simple! Just screw the driver into place ("righty, tighty - lefty, loosy"). I love the ease at which you can swap out the drivers. And it looks like they made the damper screen a bit easier to get out also. Though I haven't taken it out yet, I noticed that in two places around the damper, it is a bit recessed so that you can get a hold of it with (very small) tweazers. 



Spoiler: damper screen picture



Sorry, this is the best my phone camera can do even in "Macro" mode









They have included 3 sets of full foams, and 3 sets of "donut" foams. And I really like the way they packaged them, though this is aesthetics only, and have no real function. The full foams seem to be made fairly poorly because they don't change the sound very much at all. IMO they are really only good for helping to hold them in your ears. Though I could be wrong because the pina gain on these is so boosted I may not be able to hear the (subtle) effect. I have decided to throw some of the Fiio "Bass" foams on these (for the rest of my impressions for today) which DO help.

That brings me to the sound...... Oh boy! I don't know what year it is in China (year of the monkey, or year of the dog, etc...), but I think for Smabat it must be the year of the "ice pick". These have some truly piercing pina gain to them (all three drivers I have). The good news is that even though I would compare the amount that it is boosted to the Maria II, the frequency used is much narrower, so it doesn't change the overall tonality of the signature as much as does the Maria II (to my ears). So, for the rest of the explanation, I decided to use the Super One 100ohm bio driver (to compare to the M2s Pro with the same driver). I also put in the tube amp in my DX300 to help warm things up a bit.

Having said that, I find it really hard to listen to anything metal/rock/hard rock and etc... with ANY sort of volume at all. It seems as though they have boosted the pina gain but decreased the treble and upper bass and sub bass. These become much like a capital "N", where the first peak is the mid bass, and the second one is the pina gain. Though there should be another stick coming off the right side that heads decidedly downwards. Treble IS present, but now sounds very veiled and recessed (compared to the M2s Pro), so the mids are a bit thin and unclear (also because of the lack of upper bass). Sub bass has dimished (in all three drivers) also, but mid bass helps keep things having some pop to them. Sub bass is also there but doesn't go as deep as with the M2s Pro and is recessed.

These are very early impressions, so don't take all of this to heart (though I don't think the piercing upper mids will change all that much over time).


----------



## Ronion

I’d recommend you use them for like an hour a day for the next two weeks.  My 2 buds that I’ve done this study on have reduced the pinna gain dramatically and the deep end of the bass also increases.  Especially so with the FiiO Bass foams.  They should really make these foams easily purchasable.  Their build quality and sound is top notch.  I think the thickness just makes them perfectly form to your ear after a few weeks of use.  Anyway, I wouldn’t give up just yet.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> I’d recommend you use them for like an hour a day for the next two weeks.  My 2 buds that I’ve done this study on have reduced the pinna gain dramatically and the deep end of the bass also increases.  Especially so with the FiiO Bass foams.  They should really make these foams easily purchasable.  Their build quality and sound is top notch.  I think the thickness just makes them perfectly form to your ear after a few weeks of use.  Anyway, I wouldn’t give up just yet.


Oh, no I haven't nor won't give up on them until I am sure they won't change (or at least my brain gets used to it). And this might also show whether your theory is correct (or burn-in) because listening to them (almost) side by side with the M2s Pro, they are quite a bit different to my ears. If after a few weeks they start sounding more like the M2s Pro, then.....

Now I don't think they will ever sound JUST like the M2s Pro because while the shell is the same (but bigger) there is 0 room behind the driver on the M4, where the M2s Pro has some space before it hits the dampening screen (for instance). This will make a difference IMO. 

Anyhow, thanks for the advice!


----------



## o0genesis0o

digititus said:


> Heads up for Fiio EM5 users (literally). I wear some buds cable over ear as they are a more stable fit for me. Smabat ST-10s and Yincrow RW1000 work especially well in this configuration. The EM5 isn't a bad fit when used cable down, but it isn't that stable either so today I gave it a try over ear. Looking at the design you would think this would never work which is probably why I never attempted it before, but with my ears it is really stable and comfortable. Soundwise, I don't notice anything different. I can turn my head side to side and move around freely without having to keep adjusting the fit (chin slider assistance helps here). So, if you have fit issues with the EM5 it may be worth a try cable over ear.
> 
> With all the talk of the FF3, some love for the EM5 needed. One of the most versatile and enjoyable phones in my collection.


I want to add that MX500 shells might also be worn over the ears. They are more stable in that position. However, I saw my reflection in the mirror and decided not to look more dorky than I already am   

FF3 cannot be worn over the ears due to their long and thin stems.



Ronion said:


> Anyway, I wouldn’t give up just yet.





samandhi said:


> I haven't nor won't give up on them



not giving up ever


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> I want to add that MX500 shells might also be worn over the ears. They are more stable in that position. However, I saw my reflection in the mirror and decided not to look more dorky than I already am
> 
> FF3 cannot be worn over the ears due to their long and thin stems.
> 
> ...


Oh sure they can. I have worn the Chaconne (much longer stem) over ear... Now when you speak about looking dorky, those take the cake (as it were). 

LOL That caught me off guard, though I SHOULD have guessed where it would go when clicked...


----------



## fooltoque (Sep 21, 2022)

digititus said:


> Heads up for Fiio EM5 users (literally). I wear some buds cable over ear as they are a more stable fit for me. Smabat ST-10s and Yincrow RW1000 work especially well in this configuration. The EM5 isn't a bad fit when used cable down, but it isn't that stable either so today I gave it a try over ear. Looking at the design you would think this would never work which is probably why I never attempted it before, but with my ears it is really stable and comfortable. Soundwise, I don't notice anything different. I can turn my head side to side and move around freely without having to keep adjusting the fit (chin slider assistance helps here). So, if you have fit issues with the EM5 it may be worth a try cable over ear.
> 
> With all the talk of the FF3, some love for the EM5 needed. One of the most versatile and enjoyable phones in my collection.


Hmmm... Thanks for that, I think. For me it requires a lot of fiddling to get it right, and liberal use of the chin slider, but it actually puts the driver in a better place for me (and keeps it there).

I feel like a weirdo wearing it this way though... You're making me weird!

Also I worry about it putting stress on the cable at the stems.


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> VERY early impressions: I absolutely love the case that comes with these. They should have been using this one all this time IMO. It is a semi-hard shell, with a (very easy to move) zipper. And the Cable that comes with this is the best one they have included with any of the Smabat buds I have tried thus far.
> 
> I really like the fabric material on the M2s Pro cable because it makes the cable super pliable, but it is so thin and light that it actually gets tangled or caught on itself (sticks together). The new cable is plastic coated, making it less pliable, but I wouldn't call it as stubborn as the FiiO FF3. It also simply looks more "high end" than the others. The MMCX connect to the earbuds much like iBasso cables do in their IEMs; VERY tight (so tight, that I had to press REALLY hard on the left one to get it to click), and they don't swivel at all (on my units). But there is NO chin slider on this new cable (how odd).
> 
> ...


RE: M4 tuning dampers.

I got the dampers in today. I wouldn't try to remove the factory installed dampers unless you have backups ready. They are tiny and are held in place with edge adhesive, like double sided tape. Same sort of adhesive used on horseshoe tuning foams / cottons. Funny, not even sure why horseshoe foams are called cottons, must be a Chinese to English translation thing. Anyway, here's a pic. I used a pin for size reference.

I don't think I'll be messing with the tuning dampers until I can sort out how I like the sound with just the factory installed dampers.


----------



## samandhi (Sep 21, 2022)

mt877 said:


> RE: M4 tuning dampers.
> 
> I got the dampers in today. I wouldn't try to remove the factory installed dampers unless you have backups ready. They are tiny and are held in place with edge adhesive, like double sided tape. Same sort of adhesive used on horseshoe tuning foams / cottons. Funny, not even sure why horseshoe foams are called cottons, must be a Chinese to English translation thing. Anyway, here's a pic. I used a pin for size reference.
> 
> I don't think I'll be messing with the tuning dampers until I can sort out how I like the sound with just the factory installed dampers.


Yeah, I kind of figured they used the same type of adhesive as they do in cheap(er) IEMs wax filter at the end of the nozzle. I have had one come out accidentally when trying to clean it, and I was never able to get it back in place. I had to order a new set (because I didn't have any of that adhesive at hand).

Now that you have the stock ones out, what did you put in their place, or did you put the stock ones back in? And did you listen without the filters in?


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Yeah, I kind of figured they used the same type of adhesive as they do in cheap(er) IEMs wax filter at the end of the nozzle. I have had one come out accidentally when trying to clean it, and I was never able to get it back in place. I had to order a new set (because I didn't have any of that adhesive at hand).
> 
> Now that you have the stock ones out, what did you put in their place, or did you put the stock ones back in?


I didn't mess with the dampers yet. Gonna do some more listening in stock configuration to see which driver I really like... I'm leaning toward the Super One drivers.

One of the problems is that if you have several drivers and each one can be tuned to sound optimal, but you use different dampers for each driver, then essentially you need to pony up and get separate M4 base bodies. Apply the dampers and drivers that sound good together and leave it alone after that. Maybe one set of dampers work good with 2 driver sets, but you would need to keep track of what drivers are matched to what bodies. Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself here, but you can see where this could be leading...


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> I didn't mess with the dampers yet. Gonna do some more listening in stock configuration to see which driver I really like... I'm leaning toward the Super One drivers.
> 
> One of the problems is that if you have several drivers and each one can be tuned to sound optimal, but you use different dampers for each driver, then essentially you need to pony up and get separate M4 base bodies. Apply the dampers and drivers that sound good together and leave it alone after that. Maybe one set of dampers work good with 2 driver sets, but you would need to keep track of what drivers are matched to what bodies. Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself here,* but you can see where this could be leading...*


LOL for sure.... It's all good. Get comfortable with the drivers before you mess with them (just like you stated), then you will know exactly how they changed when you DO change the damper).


----------



## DBaldock9

samandhi said:


> Status update on the Smabat M4 (and drivers). According to AE tracking, they have been sitting in my local post office for the last 5 days, while USPS (actual person) tells me they haven't seen them, only created a label 6 days ago... Well, Poo! I'm glad I am a patient man.... NOT!





JAnonymous5150 said:


> Mine are out for delivery today after I thought I was going to get them last week and they never showed.



My M4 were in the mailbox, when I left for work this morning.
During the day, I was mainly listing to the original driver, with a short swap to the Super One driver.
.
Audio Path: Work PC (YouTube) [USB] -> [USB] Cayin RU6 (R-2R DAC) [4.4mm TRRRS / 2.5mm TRRS adapter] -> [2.5mm TRRS / 2x XLR] S.M.S.L. sAp-9 Amp [2.5mm TRRS] -> [2.5mm TRRS] Impact Audio Cable [MMCX] M4 earbuds
.
When I bought the M4, I also ordered the Super One 100-Ω driver, thinking it would have the "big bass" (similar to my Smabat ST-10s (Gold/Black)(2020), 300-Ω).
But while listening today, I've found that the original driver has more low bass, and the Super One has more midrange.
Have not yet tried the BA driver.


----------



## samandhi

DBaldock9 said:


> My M4 were in the mailbox, when I left for work this morning.
> During the day, I was mainly listing to the original driver, with a short swap to the Super One driver.
> .
> Audio Path: Work PC (YouTube) [USB] -> [USB] Cayin RU6 (R-2R DAC) [4.4mm TRRRS / 2.5mm TRRS adapter] -> [2.5mm TRRS / 2x XLR] S.M.S.L. sAp-9 Amp [2.5mm TRRS] -> [2.5mm TRRS] Impact Audio Cable [MMCX] M4 earbuds
> ...


You should have gotten the 150Ti driver if that is what you were looking for IMO. It is the same as was/is in the ST10S B&G. Though it still doesn't have as deep of bass as the ST10S B&G in the M4 (probably the shell coming into play here). It IS bassier than the 100 bio driver though. And I would agree with you that the 100 bio seems to be the more balanced sounding driver.


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> You should have gotten the 150Ti driver if that is what you were looking for IMO. It is the same as was/is in the ST10S B&G. Though it still doesn't have as deep of bass as the ST10S B&G in the M4 (probably the shell coming into play here). It IS bassier than the 100 bio driver though. And I would agree with you that the 100 bio seems to be the more balanced sounding driver.


Do a comparison listen to M4 Super One and FiiO FF3. To me they are very close to each other but not exactly. The FF3 is outperforming the M4 Super One, but the sound signature is similar to me. Give it a try and see what you think.


----------



## DBaldock9

samandhi said:


> You should have gotten the 150Ti driver if that is what you were looking for IMO. It is the same as was/is in the ST10S B&G. Though it still doesn't have as deep of bass as the ST10S B&G in the M4 (probably the shell coming into play here). It IS bassier than the 100 bio driver though. And I would agree with you that the 100 bio seems to be the more balanced sounding driver.



Well, since I actually have my oddball 300-Ω ST-10s (Gold/Black) earbuds, I figured it would be a good idea to try a different driver for the M4. 
. 
One thing I haven't tried yet, is the different dampers that were also in the order. I know that somewhere back in this thread, it was mentioned what the different numbered dampers do. Was that info provided by testing, or is there a clear description on a web page somewhere?


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Do a comparison listen to M4 Super One and FiiO FF3. To me they are very close to each other but not exactly. The FF3 is outperforming the M4 Super One, but the sound signature is similar to me. Give it a try and see what you think.


I'm sorry brother, but on this one I have to (respecfully) disagree. They don't sound anything alike to me. The FF3 are much more bassy (lower, mid, and upper bass) making the mids much thicker and warmer. Also, the treble is very polite on the FF3 so the mids are also a bit more forward while being thick(ish). The pina gain is also much less so there isn't the added perception of clarity to the overall sound. The whole sound is much more laid back and less aggressive than it is on the M4. The FF3 are overall much fuller, rounded signature. I would say that the mid bass and upper mids are the star of the show for the M4, and everything else takes a back seat, making them sound thinner overall. 

But that is what I hear, and all ears are different.  And I like sharing our thoughts on these (even if, or especially if they differ)...


----------



## mt877

DBaldock9 said:


> Well, since I actually have my oddball 300-Ω ST-10s (Gold/Black) earbuds, I figured it would be a good idea to try a different driver for the M4.
> .
> One thing I haven't tried yet, is the different dampers that were also in the order. I know that somewhere back in this thread, it was mentioned what the different numbered dampers do. Was that info provided by testing, or is there a clear description on a web page somewhere?


That was my post...
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-17148097


----------



## samandhi

DBaldock9 said:


> Well, since I actually have my oddball 300-Ω ST-10s (Gold/Black) earbuds, I figured it would be a good idea to try a different driver for the M4.
> .
> One thing I haven't tried yet, is the different dampers that were also in the order. I know that somewhere back in this thread, it was mentioned what the different numbered dampers do. Was that info provided by testing, or is there a clear description on a web page somewhere?


Yep. Have a look here. Though it doesn't say which one is stock. @mt877 mentioned it earlier which one was in it (I forgot though LOL).


----------



## samandhi

LOL ya' beat me to it..


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> I'm sorry brother, but on this one I have to (respecfully) disagree. They don't sound anything alike to me. The FF3 are much more bassy (lower, mid, and upper bass) making the mids much thicker and warmer. Also, the treble is very polite on the FF3 so the mids are also a bit more forward while being thick(ish). The pina gain is also much less so there isn't the added perception of clarity to the overall sound. The whole sound is much more laid back and less aggressive than it is on the M4. The FF3 are overall much fuller, rounded signature. I would say that the mid bass and upper mids are the star of the show for the M4, and everything else takes a back seat, making them sound thinner overall.
> 
> But that is what I hear, and all ears are different.  And I like sharing our thoughts on these (even if, or especially if they differ)...


Thanks for the quick compare. Yeah, our hearing is definitely different. The M4 SO bass isn't as thick, but I'm getting good kick and like you said the upper mids are brighter than the FF3. The FF3 are a bit easier to drive, so when I try to volume match (just using my ears for the volume match, not measuring with some rig) between both of them is where I find that's where I'm finding they have similarities. I'm not increasing the volume for the M4 by a lot, but the volume is a bit lower when I swap from FF3 to M4, so I have to bump the volume up a little bit with M4.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Thanks for the quick compare. Yeah, our hearing is definitely different. The M4 SO bass isn't as thick, but I'm getting good kick and like you said the upper mids are brighter than the FF3. The FF3 are a bit easier to drive, so when I try to volume match (just using my ears for the volume match, not measuring with some rig) between both of them is where I find that's where I'm finding they have similarities. I'm not increasing the volume for the M4 by a lot, but the volume is a bit lower when I swap from FF3 to M4, so I have to bump the volume up a little bit with M4.


My pleasure good sir! 

Oh, for sure, the driver is definitively of a higher impedance on the M4. It also depends on which part of the FR you are trying to volume match. If you are trying to match mids, then you definitely hear the difference in pina gain. If you are volume matching to pina gain, then you will hear the scooped out mids and upper bass (compared to the FF3) for instance.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Hi folks, I finally completed Fiio FF3 review. You can it on head-fi or my blog (in the signature)




 



> In the head-fi journey, you sometimes come across a piece of gear that shakes your dogma. Fiio FF3 shows me that it is possible to get excellent sound with a large soundstage and impactful and textured bass without spending a fortune on TOTL IEMs.
> 
> Would flat-head earbuds replace IEMs for me? No, because flat-head is ultimately an illogical form factor, being portable gear but does not have the necessary fit and isolation for mobile uses. However, FF3 and other earbuds are my preferred options when I don't need isolation. Due to the outstanding sound quality and price/performance ratio, Fiio FF3 receives the first-ever IEGems seal-of-approval and *recommendation without reservation* from this reviewer.





Spoiler: How I feel after posting the review


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Hi folks, I finally completed Fiio FF3 review. You can it on head-fi or my blog (in the signature)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You definitely have a knack for getting your point across in words (something that I sometimes struggle with). Though I am curious?! Which foams did you use in the review? You mentioned on here that you use "balanced", but in the (great) photo, you are showing the "crisp" foams.


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> You definitely have a knack for getting your point across in words (something that I sometimes struggle with). Though I am curious?! Which foams did you use in the review? You mentioned on here that you use "balanced", but in the (great) photo, you are showing the "crisp" foams.


Hi, I used balanced foam. The donut foams was from a long time ago. I realised that I forgot to take a picture of the accessories pack, so I dug in my library and found a couple of old photos. 

If I use donut foam, I think the resolution would be 4.5/5 easily, but the tonality would drop to 3/5 at most, because the ear gain becomes too piercing for me.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Hi, I used balanced foam. The donut foams was from a long time ago. I realised that I forgot to take a picture of the accessories pack, so I dug in my library and found a couple of old photos.
> 
> If I use donut foam, I think the resolution would be 4.5/5 easily, but the tonality would drop to 3/5 at most, because the ear gain becomes too piercing for me.


Ah, OK! I hate when I forget to take pictures that you can't "recapture" again... LOL

I totally agree with this statement. I tried the buds right OOTB before putting on foams, and thought, "oh great, these are going to suck because they will hurt my ears". I was SO wrong, and STILL can't believe how much of a difference that those foams make. Much more than any other buds I have or have heard...


----------



## tendou

o0genesis0o said:


> Hi folks, I finally completed Fiio FF3 review. You can it on head-fi or my blog (in the signature)


NIce! I read some of your other review and there is a nice SAK compact? In the picture.

The creative amp , does it works with UAPP?


----------



## o0genesis0o (Sep 22, 2022)

tendou said:


> NIce! I read some of your other review and there is a nice SAK compact? In the picture.
> 
> The creative amp , does it works with UAPP?



Um, what is a "SAK"?

About the amp, I have never used UAPP, but I have doubt that it works. The on-board control of the dongle plus the interference from the SXFI app confuse the Hiby Music app to the point of crashing it. In the end, I have to change the settings of the HiBy app to release the dongle and let the OS control all the audio software. Not that I hear any noticeable difference between Android resampling and bit perfect mode by Hiby, though.

Edit: I mentioned HiBy music app because I believe that it does the same thing as UAPP (bypassing Android's resampling)


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Hi, I used balanced foam. The donut foams was from a long time ago. I realised that I forgot to take a picture of the accessories pack, so I dug in my library and found a couple of old photos.
> 
> If I use donut foam, I think the resolution would be 4.5/5 easily, but the tonality would drop to 3/5 at most, because the ear gain becomes too piercing for me.


We have the same impression there as well—and I think the “balanced” foams are appropriately named.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Um, what is a "SAK"?
> 
> About the amp, I have never used UAPP, but I have doubt that it works. The on-board control of the dongle plus the interference from the SXFI app confuse the Hiby Music app to the point of crashing it. In the end, I have to change the settings of the HiBy app to release the dongle and let the OS control all the audio software. Not that I hear any noticeable difference between Android resampling and bit perfect mode by Hiby, though.
> 
> *Edit: I mentioned HiBy music app because I believe that it does the same thing as UAPP (bypassing Android's resampling)*


In this, you are correct, but you can choose for it NOT to, so maybe in that mode it would work?!


----------



## tendou

o0genesis0o said:


> Um, what is a "SAK"?
> 
> About the amp, I have never used UAPP, but I have doubt that it works. The on-board control of the dongle plus the interference from the SXFI app confuse the Hiby Music app to the point of crashing it. In the end, I have to change the settings of the HiBy app to release the dongle and let the OS control all the audio software. Not that I hear any noticeable difference between Android resampling and bit perfect mode by Hiby, though.
> 
> Edit: I mentioned HiBy music app because I believe that it does the same thing as UAPP (bypassing Android's resampling)


The red Victorinox Swiss Army Knife in your picture. 😂


So it's still the same as the firmware update that brokes uapp and hiby control.


----------



## o0genesis0o

tendou said:


> The red Victorinox Swiss Army Knife in your picture. 😂
> 
> 
> So it's still the same as the firmware update that brokes uapp and hiby control.



Regarding the knife: yup, it's the second cheapest one that I can find in a local store. My father always told me that these Swiss Army knives are the best, so naturally I got one as daily carry. In Vietnam, these are rare and very expensive. In Australia, they are some of the cheapest stuffs. Once in a while, I will see people reminding me in the comments of my review that SAKs suck   

That reminds me, I should buy one of the better model and gift it to my father the next time I see him. He dreams to have a genuine SAK.

Regarding the amp: yup. On the plus side, I can use my Andromeda with Nintendo switch via the creative amp, so it's alright. For AUD $100 (current promotion price), I think it is a good deal. But I heard that Creative wants to sell these for AUD $300. I can't recommend this dongle at that price.


----------



## tendou

o0genesis0o said:


> Regarding the knife: yup, it's the second cheapest one that I can find in a local store. My father always told me that these Swiss Army knives are the best, so naturally I got one as daily carry. In Vietnam, these are rare and very expensive. In Australia, they are some of the cheapest stuffs. Once in a while, I will see people reminding me in the comments of my review that SAKs suck
> 
> That reminds me, I should buy one of the better model and gift it to my father the next time I see him. He dreams to have a genuine SAK.
> 
> Regarding the amp: yup. On the plus side, I can use my Andromeda with Nintendo switch via the creative amp, so it's alright. For AUD $100 (current promotion price), I think it is a good deal. But I heard that Creative wants to sell these for AUD $300. I can't recommend this dongle at that price.


It's probably the same as the first generation amp with new sticker


----------



## o0genesis0o

tendou said:


> It's probably the same as the first generation amp with new sticker


The audio part seems to be the same. There might be slight changes in the firmware to work with the Creative App. I did not bother to write about these features (preset EQ, auto turning off microphone, etc.) when reviewing the X1.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Hi folks, my review of Nicehck YD30 is up on head-fi.









> Economies of scale are a powerful thing. Somehow, Nicehck manages to put together and sell a complete product at a lower cost than the total material costs. Sound-wise, YD30 is very decent if you mostly listen to vocal-centric music. If you are unhappy with the sound, you can always salvage the components to build a different set of earbuds.
> 
> I know I did. Below is the current home of the YD30 drivers.


----------



## ValSuki

I have recieved my TRN EMX earbuds! Immediately noticed that they fit horribly to my ears, probably due to their design and strangely long body. But because of tharlt poor fit, they also didnt sound the best. Bass was non existent and everything sounded thin. Was not enjoying these at all.


----------



## fooltoque

ValSuki said:


> I have recieved my TRN EMX earbuds! Immediately noticed that they fit horribly to my ears, probably due to their design and strangely long body. But because of tharlt poor fit, they also didnt sound the best. Bass was non existent and everything sounded thin. Was not enjoying these at all.


I'm sorry to hear   It sucks when you can't try before buying. Where I live I can try a lot, but there are some things I just can't get my hands on. For example any of the Drop collaborations.


----------



## samandhi

fooltoque said:


> I'm sorry to hear   It sucks when you can't try before buying. Where I live I can try a lot, but there are some things I just can't get my hands on. For example any of the Drop collaborations.


Where I live, I cannot try anything unless it comes from Walmart (no thanks lol), and especially earbuds. Nobody here (in the US in general) really knows what they really are. They think earbuds are TWS IEMs. Even doing a Google/Bing/etc... search nets you a trillion results; all IEM TWS. 

This is also why this thread (and others like it) are essential to keeping true earbuds a thing in parts of the world that don't have ANY access to such things.


----------



## rcoleman1

I have to admit that this forum (and threads like this) has helped me rediscover the joy of earbuds from my early Sony cassette walkman days. I'm 59 years old and of course these earbuds today are on another level.


----------



## 4ceratops

rcoleman1 said:


> I have to admit that this forum (and threads like this) has helped me rediscover the joy of earbuds from my early Sony cassette walkman days. I'm 59 years old and of course these earbuds today are on another level.


I join with similar thanks. Thanks to this thread I have come to know good quality and cheap earbuds in my 52 years. It's been almost a year and I'm still in mild shock about it.


----------



## qua2k

Tom Petty 1987-06-26 - Mansfield FLAC via Blur White Wraith via LPGT.... hard to get work done this AM...


----------



## silverszi

@Ronion someone told me that you are the authority on headshadow compensation and such.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Hey guys, I can't really stick around right now, but my Cypherus Audio Zoom Fred Pro and Cypherus Audio Black (with some custom tuning tweaks for me by H) showed up at my house today! I'm not home and I'm not sure when I will get there, but I am super excited to finally have these after hearing for months about Cypherus being some of the best there is. I'll post something about them here when I have had time to listen and have time to post!

Cheers and happy listening!


----------



## Danneq

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hey guys, I can't really stick around right now, but my Cypherus Audio Zoom Fred Pro and Cypherus Audio Black (with some custom tuning tweaks for me by H) showed up at my house today! I'm not home and I'm not sure when I will get there, but I am super excited to finally have these after hearing for months about Cypherus being some of the best there is. I'll post something about them here when I have had time to listen and have time to post!
> 
> Cheers and happy listening!



Cool! I used to be (and perhaps still am?) the resident Cypherus fan boy here, but I haven't heard Zoomfred pro. I bought Zoomfred from Herry personally when we met in Tokyo in 2018 (I think?) and soon after that he released the pro version. Sort of felt happy with the vanilla version so I never got the pro version. He still makes Black edition?
Let us know how you like them!

Personally I'm waiting for my pair of TRN EMX to arrive. When it does, I plan to first let it burn for 2 days or around 50 hours. Then try different foams to see which one works best.

Have started to become curious about DQSM PD21, but besides one seller on Aliexpress I cannot find it anywhere except on DQSM:s store on Taobao.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Danneq said:


> Cool! I used to be (and perhaps still am?) the resident Cypherus fan boy here, but I haven't heard Zoomfred pro. I bought Zoomfred from Herry personally when we met in Tokyo in 2018 (I think?) and soon after that he released the pro version. Sort of felt happy with the vanilla version so I never got the pro version. He still makes Black edition?
> Let us know how you like them!
> 
> Personally I'm waiting for my pair of TRN EMX to arrive. When it does, I plan to first let it burn for 2 days or around 50 hours. Then try different foams to see which one works best.
> ...



I bought the Blacks used and they weren't working so I sent them back to him to be fixed and sent back when my ZF Pros were done. After talking to him about my musical preferences he recommended the ZF Pro and offered to make some tuning changes he thought I would like to the Blacks so I told him to go nuts!

BTW, I should mention, he was kind enough to offer to fix the Blacks when I explained that I bought a used pair and that I was having problems with them. Great customer support even for a secondhand buyer.

P.S. This package sat in customs at LA for over a month. i have never had that happen before. Anyone have any idea why customs would hang on to a package that long? It didn't even appear to have been opened.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hey guys, I can't really stick around right now, but my Cypherus Audio Zoom Fred Pro and Cypherus Audio Black (with some custom tuning tweaks for me by H) showed up at my house today! I'm not home and I'm not sure when I will get there, but I am super excited to finally have these after hearing for months about Cypherus being some of the best there is. I'll post something about them here when I have had time to listen and have time to post!
> 
> Cheers and happy listening!





Spoiler: My reaction







I have no idea what they are, but I’m happy for you


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Spoiler: My reaction
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL 😂

They're buds made by a guy named Herry in Indonesia. His company's name is Cypherus Audio. They still have a facebook page up, but his regular website appears to have been taken down. Either way, when I first started looking into buying premium earbuds Cypherus buds were mentioned to me as being some of the best you can get.

I found a use pair of Cypherus Black and contacted Herry about some questions and ended up ordering the Zoom Fred Pro, which were his recommendation for my sound sig preferences, and sending the Blacks to him to fix and apply some updated tuning voodoo to. I can't wait to try them out!


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> LOL 😂
> 
> They're buds made by a guy named Herry in Indonesia. His company's name is Cypherus Audio. They still have a facebook page up, but his regular website appears to have been taken down. Either way, when I first started looking into buying premium earbuds Cypherus buds were mentioned to me as being some of the best you can get.
> 
> I found a use pair of Cypherus Black and contacted Herry about some questions and ended up ordering the Zoom Fred Pro, which were his recommendation for my sound sig preferences, and sending the Blacks to him to fix and apply some updated tuning voodoo to. I can't wait to try them out!



Interesting. Please do share some photos, especially at the back if there are some new form of venting. I'm always curious to see how far people can push the MX500 shells.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I bought the Blacks used and they weren't working so I sent them back to him to be fixed and sent back when my ZF Pros were done. After talking to him about my musical preferences he recommended the ZF Pro and offered to make some tuning changes he thought I would like to the Blacks so I told him to go nuts!
> 
> BTW, I should mention, he was kind enough to offer to fix the Blacks when I explained that I bought a used pair and that I was having problems with them. Great customer support even for a secondhand buyer.
> 
> P.S. This package sat in customs at LA for over a month. i have never had that happen before. Anyone have any idea why customs would hang on to a package that long? It didn't even appear to have been opened.


It is usually due to taxes paid (or not) or the declared value of the item if they haven't opened it. Or even sometimes if there is a mistake in the declaration papers signed by the shipper. Or it could have simply gotten lost for a while.  I had the same issue when sending something to @FranQL and it was held up for a very long time.


----------



## drewbadour

Are there any good PK shell buds these days?

Kind of regretting giving away my Yuins a few years ago. 😅


----------



## Ronion (Sep 23, 2022)

drewbadour said:


> Are there any good PK shell buds these days?
> 
> Kind of regretting giving away my Yuins a few years ago. 😅


Blur PK32: they are a bit dark as in they have very little pinna gain, but have great extension on both ends and a detailed sound quality.   Not a lot of soundstage however.


----------



## drewbadour

Ronion said:


> Blur PK32.


Chatting with Wong now


----------



## Danneq

drewbadour said:


> Are there any good PK shell buds these days?
> 
> Kind of regretting giving away my Yuins a few years ago. 😅



My favorite is Simphonio Dragon 2+. There's a high impedance successor, Simphonio Dragon 3, that is supposed to be better but also more expensive. I think SWD2+ is still around $300 and SWD3 is $100 more.
Shozy BK was great a few years ago and must still be good. It should be around $150.
DQSM Turandot uses a PK type shell but in a metal alloy, so it's much heavier than plastic shells. Turandot can be a bit limited with which genres it works with. For me it works great with pop and rock, but not as great with metal. Turandot should be around $200.


----------



## yaps66

I posted this in the RU6 thread and just wanted to also share here.



yaps66 said:


> I have been listening to the Longyao Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600Ω Limited Edition>RU6 (NOS High gain Vol 60)>PC (Win 11)>Roon.  Just sublime!  The analogue nature of the RU6 really brings to life the Yinman 600.  The music is so lifelike and engaging.  The star of the show is the bass of course.  So textured and deep.   Can't imagine this is sound coming from an earbud!  I am in love!



If you have a RU6 and the Yinman and have not tried them as a pairing, please do.  To me it has great synergy.  The bass is lovely and textured and the mids are just sweetened up!  It really reminds me of the bird!  Just amazing!


----------



## syazwaned

yaps66 said:


> I posted this in the RU6 thread and just wanted to also share here.
> 
> 
> 
> If you have a RU6 and the Yinman and have not tried them as a pairing, please do.  To me it has great synergy.  The bass is lovely and textured and the mids are just sweetened up!  It really reminds me of the bird!  Just amazing!


I believe that yinman pairs really well with warm source


----------



## silverszi

silverszi said:


> @Ronion someone told me that you are the authority on headshadow compensation and such.


probably should have clarified in post
but do you have a post on your compensations and such


----------



## syazwaned

yaps66 said:


> I posted this in the RU6 thread and just wanted to also share here.
> 
> 
> 
> If you have a RU6 and the Yinman and have not tried them as a pairing, please do.  To me it has great synergy.  The bass is lovely and textured and the mids are just sweetened up!  It really reminds me of the bird!  Just amazing!


 I wonder whether should I sold my old and reliable Apogee Groove for Ru6. It sounds amazing 🤩


----------



## yaps66

syazwaned said:


> I wonder whether should I sold my old and reliable Apogee Groove for Ru6. It sounds amazing 🤩


Haha! I have not heard the Apogee Groove. Sometimes it is just synergy.  Not everything sounds amazing on the RU6 but with the right pairing, it is gold!


----------



## Ronion

silverszi said:


> probably should have clarified in post
> but do you have a post on your compensations and such


In my signature


----------



## WoodyLuvr

*K's 凯 Kaisheng Technology 凱聲科技 Temperament HiFi Open Earphone db1 & db1e; 30Ω / 80Ω*


*K's 凯 Temperament HiFi Open Earphone db1 "Standard Edition"*; 30Ω @ 110dB/mW (titanium & aluminum shell; K's Interchangeable Wires - Modular Wire System 2.5TRS/3.5SE/4.4TRRRS w/ 2-Pin connector)

*K's 凯 Temperament HiFi Open Earphone db1e "Enhanced High Impedance Edition"*; 80Ω @ 107dB/mW (titanium & aluminum shell; K's Interchangeable Wires - Modular Wire System 2.5TRS/3.5SE/4.4TRRRS w/ 2-Pin connector)
K's 凯 (Ksearphone 凯声科技 Kaisheng Technology)​



 



*Pre-Order Pre-Sale: Yuan RMB ¥699.00 (~USD $98)*

*Total Price: Yuan RMB ¥1899.00 (~USD $266)*



Spoiler: Ksearphone db1 / db1e Pics


----------



## silverszi

Ronion said:


> In my signature


oh thanks
didnt see that before


----------



## digititus

WoodyLuvr said:


> *K's 凯 Kaisheng Technology 凱聲科技 Temperament HiFi Open Earphone db1 & db1e; 30Ω / 80Ω*
> 
> 
> *K's 凯 Temperament HiFi Open Earphone db1 "Standard Edition"*; 30Ω @ 110dB/mW (titanium & aluminum shell; K's Interchangeable Wires - Modular Wire System 2.5TRS/3.5SE/4.4TRRRS w/ 2-Pin connector)
> ...


Who will do the QC testing for these ?


----------



## WoodyLuvr

digititus said:


> Who will do the QC testing for these ?


Not me! 😡


----------



## mt877

Something from the treasure chest...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

drewbadour said:


> Are there any good PK shell buds these days?
> 
> Kind of regretting giving away my Yuins a few years ago. 😅



I love the Symphonio Dragon 2+ and Dragon 3 (the 3 is really impressive). The Shozy BK is a great all-arounder and the Shozy Cygnus is a mids forward earbud that I dig for its vocal and acoustic reproduction abilities. These are the first that come to mind for me. There are others that I know I have tried and liked, but I have been drumming and recording A LOT on almost no sleep so I'm too tired to remember others ATM lol!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

To my Blur fans out there, is there a way to get in touch with the guys who makes Blur buds to possibly place an order if I don't have access through Facebook or does he only deal on Facebook and IG?


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> To my Blur fans out there, is there a way to get in touch with the guys who makes Blur buds to possibly place an order if I don't have access through Facebook or does he only deal on Facebook and IG?


I'm Pretty sure @WoodyLuvr can help you there.


----------



## waynes world (Sep 23, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> For prog rock with the ES-P1s? Sure!
> 
> Porcupine Tree - In Absentia & Closure/Continuation
> 
> ...



What's funny (to me at least) is that I got the FF3's last night and started with the bass foams. But a few minutes ago I read your post about using the crispy foams (I'm way behind on posts as usual!) so I put them on. I needed to decide on an awesome album to listen to and thought "Lunatic Soul -  Through Shaded Woods" of course!. So while sitting here loving it, the next post I read is the above, and I was a bit susprised to see that you listed that album (although not really, because it's awesome). You've got a few others listed there that I'm not familiar with and very much looking forward to listening to  

Anyway, this is what's queued up for my FF3 listening pleasure:
- Porcupine Tree - CLOSURE/CONTINUATION
- Fish - Weltschmerz
- Radiohead - A Moon Shaped Pool
- Steven Wilson - The Raven That Refused to Sing
- Beck - Morning Phase
- Dave Mathews - Crash

Fwiw, I think I'm digging the crispy's as well! (edit: fortunately they don't make the FF3's sound very "crispy" to me lol!)


----------



## JAnonymous5150

waynes world said:


> What's funny (to me at least) is that I got the FF3's last night and started with the bass foams. But a few minutes ago I read your post about using the crispy foams (I'm way behind on posts as usual!) so I put them on. I needed to decide on an awesome album to listen to and thought "Lunatic Soul -  Through Shaded Woods" of course!. So while sitting here loving it, the next post I read is the above, and I was a bit susprised to see that you listed that album (although not really, because it's awesome). You've got a few others listed there that I'm not familiar with and very much looking forward to listening to
> 
> Anyway, this is what's queued up for my FF3 listening pleasure:
> - Porcupine Tree - CLOSURE/CONTINUATION
> ...



I'm glad you dig the crispy foams! You're right though. The "crispy" part is definitely a misnomer. They give a little more snap to the upper mids and a bit more presence to the treble, but the changes aren't huge versus the bass foams and the FF3s remain a low end masterpiece. The extra smidge of those upper frequencies is just what the doctor ordered for me when it comes to the FF3s. Without it, the treble and upper mids can't compete with the massive, powerful low end presentation, but with the crispy donuts the FF3s actually come off with a decent balance between lows and a highs.

Lunatic Soul is awesome! If you like them, you should enjoy a lot of the stuff on that list. After you give some of those bands/albums a listen, let me know how you liked it. Looking at the playlist you've got lined up, I'm guessing that you're about to have a good sesh! To those about to rock, I salute you! Happy listening!


----------



## samandhi

waynes world said:


> What's funny (to me at least) is that I got the FF3's last night and started with the bass foams. But a few minutes ago I read your post about using the crispy foams (I'm way behind on posts as usual!) so I put them on. I needed to decide on an awesome album to listen to and thought "Lunatic Soul -  Through Shaded Woods" of course!. So while sitting here loving it, the next post I read is the above, and I was a bit susprised to see that you listed that album (although not really, because it's awesome). You've got a few others listed there that I'm not familiar with and very much looking forward to listening to
> 
> Anyway, this is what's queued up for my FF3 listening pleasure:
> - Porcupine Tree - CLOSURE/CONTINUATION
> ...


Congrats on your new shiny! 

Most of the ones I rec'ed were also on @JAnonymous5150's list but do give a try to SubLunar (the only have the one album currently)?! They are also fantastic!


JAnonymous5150 said:


> The extra smidge of those upper frequencies is just what the doctor ordered for me when it comes to the FF3s. Without it, the treble and upper mids can't compete with the massive, powerful low end presentation, but with the crispy donuts the FF3s actually come off with a decent balance between lows and a highs.


I actually highly agree with you, but unfortunately for me (as you well know by now), I can't handle the added upper mids. This is why I actually enjoy the "balanced" foams more than the bass ones. I WOULD like to use the "crispy" foams otherwise.


----------



## Cyperus

Danneq said:


> Cool! I used to be (and perhaps still am?) the resident Cypherus fan boy here, but I haven't heard Zoomfred pro. I bought Zoomfred from Herry personally when we met in Tokyo in 2018 (I think?) and soon after that he released the pro version. Sort of felt happy with the vanilla version so I never got the pro version. He still makes Black edition?
> Let us know how you like them!
> 
> Personally I'm waiting for my pair of TRN EMX to arrive. When it does, I plan to first let it burn for 2 days or around 50 hours. Then try different foams to see which one works best.
> ...


Hello Dan….
Its been long time. Hope you are doing well


----------



## Cyperus

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I bought the Blacks used and they weren't working so I sent them back to him to be fixed and sent back when my ZF Pros were done. After talking to him about my musical preferences he recommended the ZF Pro and offered to make some tuning changes he thought I would like to the Blacks so I told him to go nuts!
> 
> BTW, I should mention, he was kind enough to offer to fix the Blacks when I explained that I bought a used pair and that I was having problems with them. Great customer support even for a secondhand buyer.
> 
> P.S. This package sat in customs at LA for over a month. i have never had that happen before. Anyone have any idea why customs would hang on to a package that long? It didn't even appear to have been opened.


Wow… I remember that I send it 2 or 3 months ago. Enjoy…


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Cyperus said:


> Wow… I remember that I send it 2 or 3 months ago. Enjoy…



I have just barely had time to listen to each a little bit today and I have to say these were worth the wait! What you've done here is truly impressive. I was amazed at how long they sat at customs for, but just when I was finally thinking I needed to look into calling people about them the earbuds came through. You've given me what seems to be two perfectly complentary pairs of earbuds and I can't wait to have more time to listen to them. Thank you very, very much!


----------



## Cyperus

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I have just barely had time to listen to each a little bit today and I have to say these were worth the wait! What you've done here is truly impressive. I was amazed at how long they sat at customs for, but just when I was finally thinking I needed to look into calling people about them the earbuds came through. You've given me what seems to be two perfectly complentary pairs of earbuds and I can't wait to have more time to listen to them. Thank you very, very much!


You are welcome….
Thank you for your compliments


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I have just barely had time to listen to each a little bit today and I have to say these were worth the wait! What you've done here is truly impressive. I was amazed at how long they sat at customs for, but just when I was finally thinking I needed to look into calling people about them the earbuds came through. You've given me what seems to be two perfectly complentary pairs of earbuds and I can't wait to have more time to listen to them. Thank you very, very much!


Are you trying to catch up to the sheer amount of earbuds that someone like @WoodyLuvr has listened to over the years in 6 months? ROFL More power to you brother, and I applaud you for the effort either way! 

Though you DO realize that with the sheer amount of buds you are building, you got a LOT of writing on here to do?! haha


----------



## waynes world

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I'm glad you dig the crispy foams! You're right though. The "crispy" part is definitely a misnomer. They give a little more snap to the upper mids and a bit more presence to the treble, but the changes aren't huge versus the bass foams and the FF3s remain a low end masterpiece. The extra smidge of those upper frequencies is just what the doctor ordered for me when it comes to the FF3s. Without it, the treble and upper mids can't compete with the massive, powerful low end presentation, but with the crispy donuts the FF3s actually come off with a decent balance between lows and a highs.



Yeah, excellent impressions. I still need to try the balanced foams, but at this point, the FF3's + crisp's seem pretty much perfection.



> Lunatic Soul is awesome! If you like them, you should enjoy a lot of the stuff on that list.



Right on. That Mariusz Duda is just a bit talented lol! Love Riverside as well.



> After you give some of those bands/albums a listen, let me know how you liked it. Looking at the playlist you've got lined up, I'm guessing that you're about to have a good sesh! To those about to rock, I salute you! Happy listening!







samandhi said:


> Congrats on your new shiny!
> 
> Most of the ones I rec'ed were also on @JAnonymous5150's list but do give a try to SubLunar (the only have the one album currently)?! They are also fantastic!



Thanks! So far the FF3 is living up to it's billing, that's for sure. And I will definitely check out SubLunar - thanks!


----------



## samandhi (Sep 23, 2022)

waynes world said:


> Yeah, excellent impressions. I still need to try the balanced foams, but at this point, the FF3's + crisp's seem pretty much perfection.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can't help but thinking that if their number system (FiiO) indicates these as being the bottom line for their buds, what they will be able to do with FF5 (or maybe an FF7 or something like that)?! Because these truly are something very special (to my ears), and I really love the build to them also. Even the cable is pretty good (for longevity anyhow). Enough so that I can live with the annoying rigidity of it and lack of changeability.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Are you trying to catch up to the sheer amount of earbuds that someone like @WoodyLuvr has listened to over the years in 6 months? ROFL More power to you brother, and I applaud you for the effort either way!
> 
> Though you DO realize that with the sheer amount of buds you are building, you got a LOT of writing on here to do?! haha



LOL when I started out with the earbud thing, I basically thought to myself that I wanted to go all out, skip the years of trying an earbud here and there, and just try anything and everything that seemed to be elite or that piqued my interest. I was in a unique position having just sold literally $25k worth of gear in the months before I started to have the "war chest" to make this happen. I piggybacked off the hard earned knowledge and experience of guys like @WoodyLuvr, you, and others who's posts popped up often on this thread and started putting together a kind of mental list of things I felt I had to try.

It's also important to note that I also wanted to have a solid collection of some of the best of the best in it by the time I go back to touring in November. Even now, as my recording work is picking up, I am already having significantly less time to audition new gear properly so I really had to pack a lot into the truly free time I have/had otherwise I would likely have to leave the job half done and then end up in a very similar position when I finish almost a solid year of touring next year. I also have to confess that I ended up keeping a lot more earbuds than I ever intended to, but I have also sold off or am in the process of selling off a lot of buds as well. After listening to a couple of recent acquisitions, even more look to be on their way out so even now, I'm not sure how things are going to look when they settle lol!

It has been a unique experience thus far and I have had so much fun it's ridiculous! The fact that earbuds are relatively affordable amongst transducer mediums has made this whole run possible in a way that wouldn't really be feasible with high end headphones or IEMs. And with how much I have taken to listening to earbuds instead of IEMs, this may well end up saving me money in the long run. 😉😎


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> It has been a unique experience thus far and I have had so much fun it's ridiculous! The fact that earbuds are relatively affordable amongst transducer mediums has made this whole run possible in a way that wouldn't really be feasible with high end headphones or IEMs. And with how much I have taken to listening to earbuds instead of IEMs, this may well end up saving me money in the long run. 😉😎


This is certainly a factor in my (past) spending spree also. I love that you can have sound so good for a fraction of the price of flagship gear (yet comparable in a lot of cases). 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> LOL when I started out with the earbud thing, I basically thought to myself that I wanted to go all out, skip the years of trying an earbud here and there, and just try anything and everything that seemed to be elite or that piqued my interest. I was in a unique position having just sold literally $25k worth of gear in the months before I started to have the "war chest" to make this happen. I piggybacked off the hard earned knowledge and experience of guys like @WoodyLuvr, you, and others who's posts popped up often on this thread and started putting together a kind of mental list of things I felt I had to try.
> 
> It's also important to note that I also wanted to have a solid collection of some of the best of the best in it by the time I go back to touring in November. Even now, as my recording work is picking up, I am already having significantly less time to audition new gear properly so I really had to pack a lot into the truly free time I have/had otherwise I would likely have to leave the job half done and then end up in a very similar position when I finish almost a solid year of touring next year. I also have to confess that I ended up keeping a lot more earbuds than I ever intended to, but I have also sold off or am in the process of selling off a lot of buds as well. After listening to a couple of recent acquisitions, even more look to be on their way out so even now, I'm not sure how things are going to look when they settle lol!


I think you did pretty much the same thing I did (though I didn't have near the funds all at once). I set my sights on the TOTL stuff, and then looked at other stuff that interested me. This isn't to say that I was purposely trying to be snobby and snubbing the lower "budget" buds, I just wanted to try stuff out of curiosity. Most choices I have made have paid off, some haven't too well. I would say that the ratio is MUCH higher for the ones that DID work out for my ears. 

Speaking of new buds, did you ever get your M4's in? 

Also, when you start touring, be careful out there... There's a lot of "crazies" roaming the world.


----------



## waynes world

JAnonymous5150 said:


> It's also important to note that I also wanted to have a solid collection of some of the best of the best in it by the time I go back to touring in November. Even now, as my recording work is picking up, I am already having significantly less time to audition new gear properly so I really had to pack a lot into the truly free time I have/had otherwise I would likely have to leave the job half done and then end up in a very similar position when I finish almost a solid year of touring next year.😎



It's awesome that you're coming to Vancouver! Tickets purchased - looking forward to it!
Ok, I don't have a clue. But it's a nice thought!


----------



## samandhi

waynes world said:


> It's awesome that you're coming to Vancouver! Tickets purchased - looking forward to it!
> Ok, I don't have a clue. But it's a nice thought!


Was going to say, "I WANNA' GO!".... ROFL


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> This is certainly a factor in my (past) spending spree also. I love that you can have sound so good for a fraction of the price of flagship gear (yet comparable in a lot of cases).
> 
> I think you did pretty much the same thing I did (though I didn't have near the funds all at once). I set my sights on the TOTL stuff, and then looked at other stuff that interested me. This isn't to say that I was purposely trying to be snobby and snubbing the lower "budget" buds, I just wanted to try stuff out of curiosity. Most choices I have made have paid off, some haven't too well. I would say that the ratio is MUCH higher for the ones that DID work out for my ears.
> 
> ...



I have the whole M4 package sitting on my table at home as we speak. When I dipped home for a little bit today I chose to grab the new Cypherus buds over the M4 stuff. As Herry just mentioned, he mailed my ZF Pro and Black Edition like three months ago and I ordered them and sent in the Blacks even before that so I have been looking forward to these bad boys for a long time. The Cypherus buds were some of the first high end pairs I went after. I picked the Black Editions up used a couple weeks after I got my ES-P1s and they already had a channel imbalance when I got them but I got them for almost nothing so it was more than worth it.

I'm planning on giving the M4s a whirl later on this weekend. I'm looking forward to the whole modular switching system. I also have the Super Ones that I ordered at the same time and I'm looking forward to seeing if there's a difference between the Super Ones and the M4s with the SO drivers installed. Should be fun!


----------



## samandhi

waynes world said:


> It's awesome that you're coming to Vancouver! Tickets purchased - looking forward to it!
> Ok, I don't have a clue. But it's a nice thought!


Speaking of which, do old (bikers) like me still go to concerts, or would I stand out like a sore thumb? I remember when I was a kid going to concerts, I don't remember seeing any old people there.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

waynes world said:


> It's awesome that you're coming to Vancouver! Tickets purchased - looking forward to it!
> Ok, I don't have a clue. But it's a nice thought!



LOL😂

As I started reading that I was thinking, did we add a Canadian leg to this tour and nobody told me?


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I have the whole M4 package sitting on my table at home as we speak. When I dipped home for a little bit today I chose to grab the new Cypherus buds over the M4 stuff. As Herry just mentioned, he mailed my ZF Pro and Black Edition like three months ago and I ordered them and sent in the Blacks even before that so I have been looking forward to these bad boys for a long time. The Cypherus buds were some of the first high end pairs I went after. I picked the Black Editions up used a couple weeks after I got my ES-P1s and they already had a channel imbalance when I got them but I got them for almost nothing so it was more than worth it.


Oh, I don't blame your choices for sure. 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> I'm planning on giving the M4s a whirl later on this weekend. I'm looking forward to the whole modular switching system. I also have the Super Ones that I ordered at the same time and I'm looking forward to seeing if there's a difference between the Super Ones and the M4s with the SO drivers installed. Should be fun!


It will be interesting to hear from you about them. I think that @mt877 and myself are the only ones that have them so far (on here), but I could be wrong and if I have forgotten anyone, my apologies.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 24, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Speaking of which, do old (bikers) like me still go to concerts, or would I stand out like a sore thumb? I remember when I was a kid going to concerts, I don't remember seeing any old people there.



Hell yeah they do! My uncle and his Hells Angels chapter roll to concerts all the time. When ZZ Top played in Bakersfield they road 90 bikes deep to the show! 🤘

Edit: I should also add that he and my aunt go to all kinds of concerts with their non-HA biker friends and by themselves all the time. My girl and I have gone with them to Neil Young, Elton John, Eric Clapton, etc.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hell yeah they do! My uncle and his Hells Angels chapter roll to concerts all the time. When ZZ Top played in Bakersfield they road 90 bikes deep to the show! 🤘


Fantastic! I have been to more than I can count (in the hundreds), but I haven't been to one in MANY a year. I think the last one I caught was either ZZ Top at the Indy 500, or Candlebox at an Eazy Riders Tour.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Fantastic! I have been to more than I can count (in the hundreds), but I haven't been to one in MANY a year. I think the last one I caught was either ZZ Top at the Indy 500, or Candlebox at an Eazy Riders Tour.



I just edited that post to make it clear that they go without the whole crew also. You should definitely get with Mrs. Samandhi and figure out what the first show of the rest of your rock n roll lives should be. Now that pandemic rules have relaxed a ton of acts are all doing the concert circuit so now should be a good time to catch a show you'll dig!


----------



## samandhi (Sep 24, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I just edited that post to make it clear that they go without the whole crew also. You should definitely get with Mrs. Samandhi and figure out what the first show of the rest of your rock n roll lives should be. Now that pandemic rules have relaxed a ton of acts are all doing the concert circuit so now should be a good time to catch a show you'll dig!


Yeah, I like the idea, however Mrs. Samandhi (as you so eloquently put it ) is ONLY into country (which I don't like at all unless it is old school "outlaw" country).

On the other hand, you just made me think, so I did a quick search, and we have a very small town, but a place just opened up not too long before the pandemic that has all metal all the time, and it appears to be pretty big names (for some reason). It actually surprises me with who comes here (for being such a small "hick" town, so to speak). That and the fact that the building capacity is only something like 200 or so. I love bands that don't think ANY gig is too small....

On next Thursday we will have these availale (that I could walk to lol):

Bands:
*Drowning Pool *


Openers:
*Through Fire
Black Satellite
Kurt Deimer*

WOW!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Yeah, I like the idea, however Mrs. Samandhi (as you so eloquently put it ) is ONLY into country (which I don't like at all unless it is old school "outlaw" country).
> 
> On the other hand, you just made me think, so I did a quick search, and we have a very small town, but a place just opened up not too long before the pandemic that has all metal all the time, and it appears to be pretty big names (for some reason). It actually surprises me with who comes here (for being such a small "hick" town, so to speak). That and the fact that the building capacity is only something like 200 or so. I love bands that don't think ANY gig is too small....
> 
> ...



Dude! How are you not hitting up that venue every freakin' week!

Smart bands will keep playing the small shows in all of the out of the way towns they can between bigger shows and tours. You'll never find a more grateful group of fans than those in a small town who got to see a band they love perform at their local dive with only a couple hundred people there. Those are the stories people tell for decades that earn a band an awesome rep and a loyal fanbase. Epic stadium and festival sets are cool for sure, but they're fewer and further between and they're less personal.

As a musician, I love playing smaller shows and then getting to have a few beers with fans or even just kick it out back by the bus while out equipment gets loaded up. Plus, at a lot of the smaller venues we play we go to them year after year (partly so you don't end up playing empty shows at terrible places lol) and you'll see the same faces show up again and again. It's so gratifying to get to know fans that have dug your band and supported your band for years and, in return, continuing to play these smaller, more accessible shows are one of the best ways to pay those fans back. You gotta let them know that they haven't been left behind.

I think many of the best groups out there know this. Playing small venues in big cities for super popular bands can turn into a riot so playing small shows in small towns can become the only feasible way to play those kinds of sets for bigger acts. It ends up working out for the fans and the bands.


----------



## DBaldock9

JAnonymous5150 said:


> To my Blur fans out there, is there a way to get in touch with the guys who makes Blur buds to possibly place an order if I don't have access through Facebook or does he only deal on Facebook and IG?



I've sent a Facebook message to Wong Kuan Wae, with a link to your post here.
He replied with this: 
"_Thanks Bro 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




Can help me send my Instargram user name : blurearbuds_boleh7 
Or email me at waewae@ymail.com_"


----------



## JAnonymous5150

DBaldock9 said:


> I've sent a Facebook message to Wong Kuan Wae, with a link to your post here.
> He replied with this:
> "_Thanks Bro
> 
> ...



My man! Thank you so much. I'll have to shoot him an email when I get a chance. I've heard so much in the way of good things about various Blur models that it's gonna be hard to know where to start. I suppose I'll just do what I have done with other DIYers and smaller makers and ask for his recommendation on a pair to begin with. You're the man! 😎


----------



## Ronion (Sep 24, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Yeah, I like the idea, however Mrs. Samandhi (as you so eloquently put it ) is ONLY into country (which I don't like at all unless it is old school "outlaw" country).


Try Sturgill Simpson if you haven’t.  I’d start with the “ Metamodern Sounds in Country Music” Album.  It’s a beautiful album.  And don’t grammar police me on quoting a title LOL


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> Try Sturgill Simpson if you haven’t.  I’d start with the “ Metamodern Sounds in Country Music” Album.  It’s a beautiful album.  And don’t grammar police me on quoting a title LOL



I have a tattoo with Merle Haggard lyrics so I love a good outlaw country piece. I'm gonna have to look this guy up...


----------



## ttorbic

JAnonymous5150 said:


> LOL when I started out with the earbud thing, I basically thought to myself that I wanted to go all out, skip the years of trying an earbud here and there, and just try anything and everything that seemed to be elite or that piqued my interest. I was in a unique position having just sold literally $25k worth of gear in the months before I started to have the "war chest" to make this happen. I piggybacked off the hard earned knowledge and experience of guys like @WoodyLuvr, you, and others who's posts popped up often on this thread and started putting together a kind of mental list of things I felt I had to try.
> 
> It's also important to note that I also wanted to have a solid collection of some of the best of the best in it by the time I go back to touring in November. Even now, as my recording work is picking up, I am already having significantly less time to audition new gear properly so I really had to pack a lot into the truly free time I have/had otherwise I would likely have to leave the job half done and then end up in a very similar position when I finish almost a solid year of touring next year. I also have to confess that I ended up keeping a lot more earbuds than I ever intended to, but I have also sold off or am in the process of selling off a lot of buds as well. After listening to a couple of recent acquisitions, even more look to be on their way out so even now, I'm not sure how things are going to look when they settle lol!
> 
> It has been a unique experience thus far and I have had so much fun it's ridiculous! The fact that earbuds are relatively affordable amongst transducer mediums has made this whole run possible in a way that wouldn't really be feasible with high end headphones or IEMs. And with how much I have taken to listening to earbuds instead of IEMs, this may well end up saving me money in the long run. 😉😎


Mate, you need to get some TGXEAR buds asap!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

JAnonymous5150 said:


> To my Blur fans out there, is there a way to get in touch with the guys who makes Blur buds to possibly place an order if I don't have access through Facebook or does he only deal on Facebook and IG?





samandhi said:


> I'm Pretty sure @WoodyLuvr can help you there.





DBaldock9 said:


> I've sent a Facebook message to Wong Kuan Wae, with a link to your post here.
> He replied with this:
> "_Thanks Bro
> 
> ...


A small update:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blur-earbuds-lovers.884062/post-17159997


----------



## fogside

digititus said:


> Who will do the QC testing for these ?


I am  buy db1e today . 80ohm and shell must be interesting


----------



## yaps66

JAnonymous5150 said:


> My man! Thank you so much. I'll have to shoot him an email when I get a chance. I've heard so much in the way of good things about various Blur models that it's gonna be hard to know where to start. I suppose I'll just do what I have done with other DIYers and smaller makers and ask for his recommendation on a pair to begin with. You're the man! 😎


Coo! I just PM'd him in insta!


----------



## Danneq

Cyperus said:


> Hello Dan….
> Its been long time. Hope you are doing well



Hi Herry! I'm fine thanks. And you? The family was able to go to Japan this summer so the kids could see their grandmother for the first time since 2019. During the pandemic I didn't buy any earbuds, but this summer I went to e-earphone in Akihabara and bought second hand pairs of Moondrop Chaconne and Liebesleid and now I feel like trying out new earbuds for the first time since 2019.
Japan is opening up to tourists so I hope you can go soon and stock up on gear for your audio projects. Are you working on new earbuds? By the way, e-earphone has moved again. Now they are in the front of the chuo dori/big street, on the opposite side of the building they used to be. You enter from the street and there are 4-5 levels with different stuff.


----------



## Danneq (Sep 24, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I have just barely had time to listen to each a little bit today and I have to say these were worth the wait! What you've done here is truly impressive. I was amazed at how long they sat at customs for, but just when I was finally thinking I needed to look into calling people about them the earbuds came through. You've given me what seems to be two perfectly complentary pairs of earbuds and I can't wait to have more time to listen to them. Thank you very, very much!



The Zoomfred Pro might need some burn in. Here's a post from someone who bought a pair 4 years ago:


goaud27 said:


> I went with ZoomFred Pro as Herry from Cypherus Audio suggested after I told him that I want something portable and the least microphonic. Just got them yesterday, so burning them in.
> Not sure if burn-in is a thing or it's mainly the brain/ears which are getting used to a new sound signature, but the first few songs they sounded like a $1 fake apple earbuds: plastic, muddy, boomy.
> An hour later there was already a volume around head, all frequencies appeared. Then I turned on some symphonic orchestra and got amazed how I hear every instrument and every frequency, how full is the sound.
> Today throughout the day, I start to hear more mids, electric guitars start to "jh-jh" as they should, also the instruments and singers are moving further and further away from the head - the stage is expanding. Herry suggested 300 hours of burn-in, so I am looking forward to see how they will transform in the end.



I always burn in new earbuds even if I am not convinced 100% it is a real thing (it might be what goaud27 writes, that your brain and ears adjust). But I still do it to be on the safe side...


----------



## samandhi (Sep 24, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Dude! How are you not hitting up that venue every freakin' week!
> 
> Smart bands will keep playing the small shows in all of the out of the way towns they can between bigger shows and tours. You'll never find a more grateful group of fans than those in a small town who got to see a band they love perform at their local dive with only a couple hundred people there. Those are the stories people tell for decades that earn a band an awesome rep and a loyal fanbase. Epic stadium and festival sets are cool for sure, but they're fewer and further between and they're less personal.
> 
> ...


Oh, believe me, I AM planning on hitting the place every chance I get. But as I said they JUST started up when the pandemic hit... The building had been setting empty (mostly, they had some worship groups occupy the place once in a while), because the person that bought it wanted originally to turn it into a strip joint. City government stopped that by not allowing him to get a liquor license. So, it actually set empty for many years. Finally, he changed it to a performance venue, and he was granted his liquor license and started attracting big names, that never really got to perform.... until now!

DUDE! I'm going to see Drowning Pool and the others...


----------



## o0genesis0o

Away from home for a field experiment. These are the only gears I brought with me. 

Hopefully when I am back, the M4 set and the Megatron would be waiting.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

yaps66 said:


> Coo! I just PM'd him in insta!



I haven't gotten around to it yet, but will once I decide what to ask him for as far as sound signature for recommendations go. I'm thinking about the kind of bud I'd like to add to my collection so it gets used rather than being redundant. I haven't had a ton of time for considering as I have been at this studio for like 89 of the last 96 hours! About to head home in a bit, grab a shower and some shut eye, and then I'll figure it out...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> DUDE! I'm going to see Drowning Pool and the others...



LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOOOOOOOOR!🤘👿😈😎😜


----------



## Cyperus (Sep 24, 2022)

Danneq said:


> Hi Herry! I'm fine thanks. And you? The family was able to go to Japan this summer so the kids could see their grandmother for the first time since 2019. During the pandemic I didn't buy any earbuds, but this summer I went to e-earphone in Akihabara and bought second hand pairs of Moondrop Chaconne and Liebesleid and now I feel like trying out new earbuds for the first time since 2019.
> Japan is opening up to tourists so I hope you can go soon and stock up on gear for your audio projects. Are you working on new earbuds? By the way, e-earphone has moved again. Now they are in the front of the chuo dori/big street, on the opposite side of the building they used to be. You enter from the street and there are 4-5 levels with different stuff.


Thank you for the info Dan…
I’m eager to come to Japan since Covid started haha. Yes, projects has been stop because I wasn’t able to source the components outside from Japan.

Yes, I have new earphone, Crescendo in line.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

*Heads-up!* *@ian91 *and I have made a minor update to the Sound Signature Chart (rev 9.1 now) that better clarifies the x-axis. Please see our in-depth sound signature chart post *here* or simply go straight to the chart *here*.


----------



## syazwaned

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Heads-up!* *@ian91 *and I have made a minor update to the Sound Signature Chart (rev 9.1 now) that better clarifies the x-axis. Please see our in-depth sound signature chart post *here* or simply go straight to the chart *here*.


awesome work!


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 24, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I haven't gotten around to it yet, but will once I decide what to ask him for as far as sound signature for recommendations go. I'm thinking about the kind of bud I'd like to add to my collection so it gets used rather than being redundant. I haven't had a ton of time for considering as I have been at this studio for like 89 of the last 96 hours! About to head home in a bit, grab a shower and some shut eye, and then I'll figure it out...


Awesome!

Don't know if you are aware of it or not but *here* is an awesome Blur Earbuds thread started by *@siderak*. There is a wealth of information in this thread. You can also use us Blur owners over there as a sounding board when trying to finalize your model.

Although a bit shy at first, Blur is truly the consummate gentlemen whom will remain patient and attentive to your requests. He also is very straightforward and will surely let you know if his current model(s) do not meet you requirements. Do take your time when communicating with him. Clearly and thoroughly give your preferences and dislikes (a lot of people expect him to be a mind reader which I don't get sometimes). Most importantly do provide him with some thoughtful music selection as he will use them to tune to your preference (I recommend make it easy for him and provide YouTube links or such). This is a hobby for him (not a business) so he does thoroughly enjoy the comradery and the audio discussion and process in creating his earbuds. Sometimes I think, and unintentionally, people are too business-like and/or not patient enough with him and they lose out in the process, as well as fail to secure the best tuning for themselves (there are a number of us over on the Blur thread that will attest to this!).

Currently, he is only offering the *Blur 266R MX aPs Reference Retune; *MX 32/64/150/300Ω (w/ Air Pocket Shell; 266v4 aka "266 Clear" cabling) though currently he is sourcing a PK shell replacement (he already has some PK drivers again) so a PK model similar to his 2021 266 PK32 New Line is forthcoming 🎉🥳!


----------



## gazzington

What are the best earbuds for orchestral music such as Mahler symphonies?  A few options at different price bands would be very much appreciated


----------



## gazzington

WoodyLuvr said:


> Awesome!
> 
> Don't know if you are aware of it or not but *here* is an awesome Blur Earbuds thread started by *@siderak*. There is a wealth of information in this thread. You can also use us as a sounding board when trying to finalize your model.
> 
> ...


Wong of blur is a great man. Very polite and helpful. His earbuds are top quality too


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 24, 2022)

gazzington said:


> What are the best earbuds for orchestral music such as Mahler symphonies?  A few options at different price bands would be very much appreciated


Currently, listening to Rattle's 2010 version of Mahler's Symphony No. 2, "Resurrection" on my tgxear Tantalus! I imagine @tgx78's even more reference-like Serratus or Alpha would be perfect for dynamic Mahler. Other candidates going from most down to least in cost would be Yincrow RW-3000, Rose Martini, and Yincrow RW-2000 if you can handle brighter tunings and Longyao-Yinman 2.0 600 LE; 600Ω if you prefer a warmer signature that is still quite detailed.


----------



## DBaldock9

WoodyLuvr said:


> Awesome!
> 
> Don't know if you are aware of it or not but *here* is an awesome Blur Earbuds thread started by *@siderak*. There is a wealth of information in this thread. You can also use us Blur owners over there as a sounding board when trying to finalize your model.
> 
> ...



Most of his recent posts on Facebook have been photos of his mountain bike adventures, and of his family holiday.  Not as many shots of earbud projects, since he's probably also having issues with acquiring the specific materials he needs.


----------



## gazzington

WoodyLuvr said:


> Currently, listening to Rattle's 2010 version of Mahler's Symphony No. 2, "Resurrection" on my tgxear Tantalus! I imagine @tgx78's even more reference-like Serratus or Alpha would be perfect for dynamic Mahler. Other candidates going from most down to least in cost would be Yincrow RW-3000, Rose Martini, and Yincrow RW-2000 if you can handle brighter tunings and Longyao-Yinman 2.0 600 LE; 600Ω if you prefer a warmer signature that is still quite detailed.


Thanks for your recommendations. How do I contact tgxear?


----------



## ttorbic

gazzington said:


> Thanks for your recommendations. How do I contact tgxear?


On headfi as @tgx78! Or Instagram as TGXEAR


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 24, 2022)

gazzington said:


> Thanks for your recommendations. How do I contact tgxear?





ttorbic said:


> On headfi as @tgx78! Or Instagram as TGXEAR


*tgxear by @tgx78 *

Check this new and quite relevant thread out created by *@Dsnuts*: *TGXEAR discussion thread.*


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 24, 2022)

Come and hangout with the cool cats over on the new *RikuBuds Hangout* thread! It's where we can chat about *RikuBuds* made by *@RikudouGoku*!


----------



## samandhi

gazzington said:


> What are the best earbuds for orchestral music such as Mahler symphonies?  A few options at different price bands would be very much appreciated


@WoodyLuvr has given some great recommendations, however, for my money the Moondrop Chaconne and Yincrow RW3000 are the best I can think of for that genre. In all fairness, I have not heard any of the DIY buds that were recommended so I would never discount those. Some of the best buds I have are DIY buds from @FranQL (but you can't buy them, and they weren't tuned for orchestral type of music).


----------



## DBaldock9

DBaldock9 said:


> My M4 were in the mailbox, when I left for work this morning.
> During the day, I was mainly listing to the original driver, with a short swap to the Super One driver.
> .
> Audio Path: Work PC (YouTube) [USB] -> [USB] Cayin RU6 (R-2R DAC) [4.4mm TRRRS / 2.5mm TRRS adapter] -> [2.5mm TRRS / 2x XLR] S.M.S.L. sAp-9 Amp [2.5mm TRRS] -> [2.5mm TRRS] Impact Audio Cable [MMCX] M4 earbuds
> ...



After switching to Hiegi Donut Foams on the Super One drivers, and listening to them most of Friday - they're sounding more "balanced", with better low & mid-bass than my first impressions.
.
I also enjoyed listening to the BA drivers - they seem to be more balanced sounding than the graph on the box would imply.  I did end up having to use some Final Audio Type E tips, that are larger than the stock tips - in order to get a good seal in my ears.


----------



## mt877

DBaldock9 said:


> After switching to Hiegi Donut Foams on the Super One drivers, and listening to them most of Friday - they're sounding more "balanced", with better low & mid-bass than my first impressions.
> .
> I also enjoyed listening to the BA drivers - they seem to be more balanced sounding than the graph on the box would imply.  I did end up having to use some Final Audio Type E tips, that are larger than the stock tips - in order to get a good seal in my ears.


I have both the Super One and ST20Pro drivers. The graphs Smabat provides are identical for both. My early impression for the ST20Pro was that it was upper mid-range / treble focused, but sounds balanced over-all. The Super One drivers do have good bass quantity / quality which gives that fullness in the sound and also sound balanced as well.

I have to agree with what you're saying about the BA drivers. There's no ice pick in the ears as the graph might imply and the sound is well balanced. Nice low end, mids and a well controlled treble. It's unfortunate that Smabat doesn't supply at least 3 sizes of tips, but the ones they provided (I believe are medium) fit me fine. I might try rolling tips, but the fit is working for me and I like the way they sound.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> I have both the Super One and ST20Pro drivers. The graphs Smabat provides are identical for both. My early impression for the ST20Pro was that it was upper mid-range / treble focused, but sounds balanced over-all. The Super One drivers do have good bass quantity / quality which gives that fullness in the sound and also sound balanced as well.
> 
> I have to agree with what you're saying about the BA drivers. There's no ice pick in the ears as the graph might imply and the sound is well balanced. Nice low end, mids and a well controlled treble. It's unfortunate that Smabat doesn't supply at least 3 sizes of tips, but the ones they provided (I believe are medium) fit me fine. I might try rolling tips, but the fit is working for me and I like the way they sound.


I still can't get over how darned good the stock cable is with these things.


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> I still can't get over how darned good the stock cable is with these things.


Yeah, the cable is pretty robust. Funny there are small corkscrew like twist from the Y split to the mmcx conncectors. It's like they had a huge spool of twisted 2 x 2 core cable and they cut off the length they needed, installed the Y split and then untwisted the cable going to each of the mmcx connectors.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Yeah, the cable is pretty robust. Funny there are small corkscrew like twist from the Y split to the mmcx conncectors. It's like they had a huge spool of twisted 2 x 2 core cable and they cut off the length they needed, installed the Y split and then untwisted the cable going to each of the mmcx connectors.


I hadn't even noticed that until you mentioned it, only because I didn't look past skin deep (the jacket is straight). Kinda' cool when you look deeper. Thanks for pointing that out!


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> I hadn't even noticed that until you mentioned it, only because I didn't look past skin deep (the jacket is straight). Kinda' cool when you look deeper. Thanks for pointing that out!


Do we have the same cable? Check out my cable, you'll see the cable was originally twisted and was untwisted after the Y split.


----------



## fooltoque

fooltoque said:


> I also got my shipment last week, but instead of 10 balanced foams I got 6 bass foams.
> 
> The customer service was great though, and they are resending my real order. If any of you get 10 balanced foams instead of your 6 bass, that was my order


10 balanced foams received. Again, great customer service here.


----------



## mt877 (Sep 24, 2022)

fooltoque said:


> 10 balanced foams received. Again, great customer service here.


Now you can double them up for extra bass. LOL

My mistake... I thought you were supposed to get bass foams... reread your post.
Great they fixed it up for you.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Do we have the same cable? Check out my cable, you'll see the cable was originally twisted and was untwisted after the Y split.


Yes, I see what you are saying (that it is sort of still creased). I thought you were talking about the underlying wire inside the casing.


----------



## mt877

This is what I built today. DIY PK buds. I used 14.8mm 32Ω Docomo drivers. Of the several buds I made these are by far my best tuned buds so far. I've been listening to tunes for the last couple hours with my Shanling M3X / Little Bear B4-X stack.


----------



## samandhi (Sep 24, 2022)

mt877 said:


> This is what I built today. DIY PK buds. I used 14.8mm 32Ω Docomo drivers. Of the several buds I made these are by far my best tuned buds so far. I've been listening to tunes for the last couple hours with my Shanling M3X / Little Bear B4-X stack.


Very nice! LOVE the looks of the cable on those.

(I don't remember, so if you answered previously, apologies to you) Stock OpAmps, or did you end up changing them out on your Bear? If so, which ones did you end up going with?


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Very nice! LOVE the looks of the cable on those.
> 
> (I don't remember so if you answered previously, so apologies if you did) Stock OpAmps, or did you end up changing them out on your Bear? If so, which ones did you end up going with?


I was swapping back and forth with different Op Amps and finally ended up with MUSES02 Op Amps. Originally I thought I had problems with the MUSES02, but they have been rock solid and putting out some nice sound.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> I was swapping back and forth with different Op Amps and finally ended up with MUSES02 Op Amps. Originally I thought I had problems with the MUSES02, but they have been rock solid and putting out some nice sound.


Fantastic! I love it when things go right... 🤣😂


----------



## samandhi

I thought I would change things up a bit for tonight. 



Spoiler: Neutron Player > DX160 > Smabat M4 > Super One 100ohm bio driver


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> I thought I would change things up a bit for tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Neutron Player > DX160 > Smabat M4 > Super One 100ohm bio driver


No Sturgill Simpson?  C’mon man 😝


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> I thought I would change things up a bit for tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Neutron Player > DX160 > Smabat M4 > Super One 100ohm bio driver


I see your cable has slight twist deformity as well. I guess it will straighten out over time as the cable relaxes. My FF3 cable had a bad twist and bend near the left bud, it's 100% gone now. It just took some time and I loosely coiled the cable for storage. I think that helped(?).


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> No Sturgill Simpson?  C’mon man 😝


LOL I'm gettin' there. 

I can see why you like him. He sounds VERY much like a younger Waylin Jennings (which I still love). Good Rec bro!


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> No Sturgill Simpson?  C’mon man 😝


Ok, apparently, I am not the first (nor probably 1000th) person to mention how much he sounds like Waylin, so don't tell him I said so because apparently, he doesn't like it too much... LOL

https://www.whiskeyriff.com/2022/05...-waylon-jennings-waymores-blues-back-in-2014/


----------



## JAnonymous5150

WoodyLuvr said:


> Awesome!
> 
> Don't know if you are aware of it or not but *here* is an awesome Blur Earbuds thread started by *@siderak*. There is a wealth of information in this thread. You can also use us Blur owners over there as a sounding board when trying to finalize your model.
> 
> ...



Awesome! Thanks for the info. I barely got home about 30 minutes ago after another 40 hour studio run and I'm exhausted from long hours drumming and no sleep so I'm just gonna unwind and see if I can catch some sleep, but then I'll surely hit up the Blur thread and see about putting together a list of songs I'd like a set tuned for.

I really appreciate all the advice present and future. I'd like to think I'm patient and respectful to any DIYers in particular, but knowing that it's still just a hobby and not a business for him is certainly a good thing to keep in mind. One question though, so even though he has models and product lines he'll custom tune to preferences? 

Not to compare the two, but what Herry did to these Cypherus Black Editions is CRAZY! They sound totally different and are simply amazing. I mention them because he and I exchanged emails about tuning and musical prefs and that resulted in the tweaks he made to these. They went from being very good to something exceptional that fit what I was looking for very well. I like the idea of that kind of buyer-maker collaboration producing the best fit.

I'm looking forward to seeing what Blur has in store for me already, but I certainly intend to take my time to secure the best outcome.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 25, 2022)

gazzington said:


> What are the best earbuds for orchestral music such as Mahler symphonies?  A few options at different price bands would be very much appreciated



I am absolutely floored by how the Simphonio Dragon 3s sound with orchestral music. I listened to Mahler's 4th and 9th the other night on them and it sounded sublime! They have the perfect combination of balance through the whole sonic range, instrument separation, great detail retrieval, a large soundstage and presentation to really do dynamic orchestral/symphonic pieces justice. Particularly something powerul with a lot of dynamic interplay, crescendo/diminuendo, etc like Mahler's works are known for are a perfect match on the Dragon 3s.

Mahler is one of my favorite composers, too! I'd also like to mention that the Dragon 3s do a lot of other genres well to so you'd get an earbud that matches your preferences without pigeonholing you as an overly specialized bud can sometimes do.

Other buds to look at would by the Yincrow RW-3000s, the Rose Technics Maria IIs (though these are what I would call a highly specialized earbud), and the Moondrop Chaconnes. I personally didn't enjoy the Chaconnes much, but I'm clearly in the minority and many think they're the best or amongst the best for classical.

Obviously, there are DIY builders too. I just got two amazing pairs of earbuds from Cypherus Audio and I have a very good pair from @RikudouGoku as well though you'd need to ask these makers for their recommendations for classical since my purchases with them weren't geared towards that. I can easily recommend either as being great to deal with and both are talented at rexommending and producing products to match a buyer's tastes IME. Riku offers a more affordable option while @Cyperus aka Herry at Cypherus Audio is well known for producing some of the best buds in the business.

I hope this helps!


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 25, 2022)

Specifically to @samandhi , @mt877 , and @DBaldock9 and of course to anyone else interested. I was able to spend about an hour on a break I took today with the M4s with the Super One drivers installed and the Super One buds themselves because I was just too curious to hear what, if any, differences the two shells would create. My session was interrupted and my impressions should be considered very preliminary, but the Super One buds provide a deeper reaching low end, seemingly more sub bass, and the low end seemed a bit tighter and more detailed/articulate. The M4s with the Super One driver still sounded quite tasty and I have to say that the pretty steep price difference is probably not altogether justified, but I reserve final judgement on that for a time when I have done much more listening in better conditions.

Right now I'm just trying to unwind so I'm not going to do any listening on the Smabats right now because I don't want to get caught up in a critical listening sesh lol! I'll keep you guys posted though.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Specifically to @samandhi , @mt877 , and @DBaldock9 and of course to anyone else interested. I was able to spend about an hour on a break I took today with the M4s with the Super One drivers installed and the Super One buds themselves because I was just too curious to hear what, if any, differences the two shells would create. My session was interrupted and my impressions should be considered very preliminary, but the Super One buds provide a deeper reaching low end, seemingly more sub bass, and the low end seemed a bit tighter and more detailed/articulate. The M4s with the Super One driver still sounded quite tasty and I have to say that the pretty steep price difference is probably not altogether justified, but I reserve final hudgement on that for a time when I have done much more listening in better conditions.
> 
> Right now I'm just trying to unwind so I'm not going to do any listening on the Smabats right now because I don't want to get caught up in a critical listening sesh lol! I'll keep you guys posted though.


Take your time bro, your gonna' burn yourself out.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Take your time bro, your gonna' burn yourself out.



I'm all good man. Non-critical listening sessions to unwind and some sleep are just what the doctor ordered. I won't be burning out any time soon. You have to remember, I'm used to very little sleep so the last 5 days haven't been as hard on me as they'd probably be for most.

I'll let you guys know how those impressions hold up over time. I'm also not sure when I'll get around to demoing the other drivers so I wanted to be up front about that so no one would be eagerly awaiting my next brilliant impressions post. 😜


----------



## fooltoque

It feels kinda sacrilegious, but they were the only buds within hand's reach, so I plugged the FiiO EM5s into my VR headset. It was actually great, immersion wise. Has a much more natural feel in VR than my other buds or headphones. I'm guessing that means that the EM5 sound signature is more true-to-life than my others, and I guess it also means that I don't especially go for true-to-life in my music. Good to know that about myself  

And also glad that I found a place for my EM5s.


----------



## Danneq

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Not to compare the two, but what Herry did to these Cypherus Black Editions is CRAZY! They sound totally different and are simply amazing. I mention them because he and I exchanged emails about tuning and musical prefs and that resulted in the tweaks he made to these. They went from being very good to something exceptional that fit what I was looking for very well. I like the idea of that kind of buyer-maker collaboration producing the best fit.



Next one might be a Red Dragon for you. My CAX Black Edition was the "regular" kind and really really good but the Red Dragon was a huge step up. I wrote about it here in 2018:


Danneq said:


> Cypherus is a small Indonesian maker who is among my favorites and there is a TOTL earbud called Cypherus Red Dragon which is custom made and tuned according to the buyer's wishes. Herry of Cypherus told me that one customer wanted his Red Dragon tuned like Audeze LCD 3 and another wanted his pair tuned like Focal Elear. Red Dragon starts from $600. I actually own the first pair made. The original owner bought them for over $700 and I got them second hand for a little over $600. They are exquisite and sublime and can compete with high end headphones. The cable is quite thick though so they are not very good for portable use.



My pair was tuned like Sennheiser HD800S. I forgot to bring the Red Dragon to Japan this year, but next time the family goes I have to bring them and go to Yodobashi or some other place that has HD800S and try to compare them.

Have been burning the TRN EMX for over 2 days now and not too overwhelming. Will try different foams and cable.


----------



## Ronion

Danneq said:


> Next one might be a Red Dragon for you. My CAX Black Edition was the "regular" kind and really really good but the Red Dragon was a huge step up. I wrote about it here in 2018:
> 
> 
> My pair was tuned like Sennheiser HD800S. I forgot to bring the Red Dragon to Japan this year, but next time the family goes I have to bring them and go to Yodobashi or some other place that has HD800S and try to compare them.
> ...


Do we have pictures of what a $600 earbud looks like?  I didn’t know that such a thing exists.


----------



## Ronion

I wish everyone would do a little DIY.  Last night after tearing down a garage, tired and sore, I drank 9%ABV beer, and in less than 10 minutes in a dimly lit room built and tuned the 600Ohm Be drivers with less than $40 spent to an approximation of my curve.  I used my dirty old HeiGi foams for the tuning because I want to know what these things are going to sound like when they reach their steady state.  They are a knockout!  Separation, clarity, composure, warmth and soundstage is all there.  A completely fatigue-free sound that can play anything optimally (approximately) barring hiphop or some electronica.  Even then it has enough power handling that it’s not horrible.  I can get these to sound a little closer to perfect, but my tuning supplies are running short and my desire to fiddle is low.  I wish everyone would just buy a TOTL driver and have a go.  I messed around with a lot of cheap ones to get comfortable, but it’s largely unnecessary.  One or 2 practice runs for due diligence and then go for it.


----------



## Danneq

Ronion said:


> Do we have pictures of what a $600 earbud looks like?  I didn’t know that such a thing exists.



You can find some pics in this post:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2387#post-14508495

The cable from the plug to the y connector is super thick, so they are not at all portable. The other Red Dragon pair in that post looks much more portable.
I would never bring them outside. They are for critical listening at home. But I'm always on the hunt for new earbuds that I can use outside.
Besides Yincrow RW-3000 and Rose Martini, I am curious about 7HZ Beatles.

There have been some DIY earbuds that have been $600-700+. A couple of years ago a Vietnamese DIY earbud boutique was selling earbuds with hand made wood shells for those prices (even over $800). Never bought one. Never thought I would pay more then $300 for a pair of earbuds until I bought Red Dragon. I remember Lee of VE was talking about VE Nirvana a couple of years ago and that it would cost $1000. But those have never been released.


----------



## weexisttocease

Ronion said:


> Do we have pictures of what a $600 earbud looks like?  I didn’t know that such a thing exists.


I have the PXVV.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-17100773


----------



## Ronion

Danneq said:


> You can find some pics in this post:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2387#post-14508495
> 
> The cable from the plug to the y connector is super thick, so they are not at all portable. The other Red Dragon pair in that post looks much more portable.
> ...


It’s a sexy splitter for sure though.  

What I like about the buds I just built is their portability.  Of course the 600Ohm/moderate efficiency thing sort of limits it because it takes everything a 1V dongle has to give to get “loud” enough.  It does however get loud enough.  I look at the bright side and think how it’s volume limited and protecting my hearing for the long haul.  Plugged into an amp, they are real beauties—though never flashy.  I really don’t like flashy portable gear.  I like to keep my TOTL status low key.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 25, 2022)

Danneq said:


> You can find some pics in this post:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2387#post-14508495
> 
> The cable from the plug to the y connector is super thick, so they are not at all portable. The other Red Dragon pair in that post looks much more portable.
> ...


Yep, quite a few other models fall/fell into this price bracket as well when they launched or still... e.g.: Ksearphone (Bell-Ti, Poseidon); Venture Electronics (Zen SU, Zen Shining, Zen White Extreme); Moondrop (Liebesleid); and PISLO by ArtVano (PX HIFI, PXVV).


----------



## Ronion

WoodyLuvr said:


> Yep, quite a few other models fall/fell into this price bracket as well when they launched or still... e.g.: Ksearphone (Bell-Ti, Poseidon); Venture Electronics (Zen SU, Zen Shining, Zen White Extreme); Moondrop (Liebesleid); and PISLO by ArtVano (PX HIFI, PXVV).


This all just makes me happy I have a soldering iron.  Maybe the best investment I’ve ever made—studying psychoacoustics a close second.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Ronion said:


> I wish everyone would do a little DIY.  Last night after tearing down a garage, tired and sore, I drank 9%ABV beer, and in less than 10 minutes in a dimly lit room built and tuned the 600Ohm Be drivers with less than $40 spent to an approximation of my curve.  I used my dirty old HeiGi foams for the tuning because I want to know what these things are going to sound like when they reach their steady state.  They are a knockout!  Separation, clarity, composure, warmth and soundstage is all there.  A completely fatigue-free sound that can play anything optimally (approximately) barring hiphop or some electronica.  Even then it has enough power handling that it’s not horrible.  I can get these to sound a little closer to perfect, but my tuning supplies are running short and my desire to fiddle is low.  I wish everyone would just buy a TOTL driver and have a go.  I messed around with a lot of cheap ones to get comfortable, but it’s largely unnecessary.  One or 2 practice runs for due diligence and then go for it.


Imagine then what you could build sober, under full light, at a proper DIY station, with a few upgraded items, and if you took your time! Heavenly lights would surely then shine down upon that creation!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> Do we have the same cable? Check out my cable, you'll see the cable was originally twisted and was untwisted after the Y split.



My cable isn't like that. It's straight from the split up. No twist in the jacket at all. I noticed this last night, but apparently forgot to post about it. Interesting...🤔


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Danneq said:


> Next one might be a Red Dragon for you. My CAX Black Edition was the "regular" kind and really really good but the Red Dragon was a huge step up. I wrote about it here in 2018:
> 
> 
> My pair was tuned like Sennheiser HD800S. I forgot to bring the Red Dragon to Japan this year, but next time the family goes I have to bring them and go to Yodobashi or some other place that has HD800S and try to compare them.
> ...



So the EMXs haven't evened out at all after the two days then?

I have been thinking about the Red Dragons as well, but for now I'm just going to enjoy the ZF Pros and Blacks and wait to see what desires or needs develop so that I know exactly what I want in another pair. I will certainly be going back to Herry at some point for future pairs. His Cypherus buds are just too good to stay away from. I'm actually interested to hear more about the new model he spoke about in a post a couple pages back on this thread.

I will possibly be acquiring a pair of the QFreds second hand, but in like new condition when I head up to San Francisco in early October. An acquaintance up there has a pair he's interested in possibly selling or trading for some buds I am looking to move so we'll see.


----------



## Ronion (Sep 25, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Imagine then what you could build sober, under full light, at a proper DIY station, with a few upgraded items, and if you took your time! Heavenly lights would surely then shine down upon that creation!


I wish that were true.  The beer was made by monks though—does that count?   In truth, it’s just driver, fit and tuning no matter the lighting or state of sobriety.  When you know what you are doing, the rocket science or black art fades away.  It’s just adjusting the parts to maximize the driver’s abilities.  I can make them as pretty or as plain as I want, but ultimately plain suits me as I can’t even see them when I’m using them and I’m not the guy to attempt to impress passerby’s.  Beats are already made for that LOL.  Just functional music delivery devices that compete with or best anything out there for less.  The less the better IMO.  It actually brings me to another point: I don’t believe in specialist buds.  I think a bud can be limited to where it can only do certain genres, but that doesn’t elevated to a specialist bud IMO.  That demotes it to a limited transducer.  All transducers have limits, but some less than others.  If it can only do one genre justice, I’m out.  My music preferences are too eclectic.

What upgraded items are you referring to?


----------



## Danneq

Ronion said:


> This all just makes me happy I have a soldering iron.  Maybe the best investment I’ve ever made—studying psychoacoustics a close second.



As long as you keep working on it you might produce great earbuds


JAnonymous5150 said:


> So the EMXs haven't evened out at all after the two days then?
> 
> I have been thinking about the Red Dragons as well, but for now I'm just going to enjoy the ZF Pros and Blacks and wait to see what desires or needs develop so that I know exactly what I want in another pair. I will certainly be going back to Herry at some point for future pairs. His Cypherus buds are just too good to stay away from. I'm actually interested to hear more about the new model he spoke about in a post a couple pages back on this thread.
> 
> I will possibly be acquiring a pair of the QFreds second hand, but in like new condition when I head up to San Francisco in early October. An acquaintance up there has a pair he's interested in possibly selling or trading for some buds I am looking to move so we'll see.



I do not find the EMX to be bad. Not too bright or shouty, bass is acceptable, it has got an okay soundstage. But there's a sort of metallic sheen to the sound that I'm not too crazy about. I ordered a pure copper cable and will see if there's a difference to the included silver plated copper cable. Right now there are thin foams on them. Will try thicker ones and donut foams.

Yeah, the Cypherus Crescendo sound very interesting.
Qfred is quite different from other Cypherus earbuds. Mids are pushed forward and take the center stage. They are amazing for acoustic music and softer rock and pop. Anything where vocals are in focus. With more instrumentally busy or heavier music I do not find them to perform as well as other Cypherus earbuds.
Campfred 2 are recommended if you can come across a pair. While they are a step down from Black edition and Zoomfred they are very musical and enjoyable.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 25, 2022)

Danneq said:


> As long as you keep working on it you might produce great earbuds
> 
> 
> I do not find the EMX to be bad. Not too bright or shouty, bass is acceptable, it has got an okay soundstage. But there's a sort of metallic sheen to the sound that I'm not too crazy about. I ordered a pure copper cable and will see if there's a difference to the included silver plated copper cable. Right now there are thin foams on them. Will try thicker ones and donut foams.
> ...



The QFreds being so different and the fact that they guy doesn't want much for them whether trade or sale is actually part of the draw for me. I have been looking for a mid centric bud for certain small ensemble, solo instrumental, and vocal jazz pieces that actually wows me and this seems like the perfect opportunity to try out a pair that, on paper, seems to fit the bill and is made by a great DIYer. If the deal works out there's basically no downside to it for me and if the trade works out instead of a purchase it would be a win if I even like the QFreds because the buds he's interested in trading for aren't to my liking.

Edit: And keep us posted on the EMX changes with different foams and the like. I, for one, am interested to see how it turns out.


----------



## Ronion

Danneq said:


> As long as you keep working on it you might produce great earbuds


That’s both condescending and simultaneously hilarious. 

When you look at things realistically, there’s just no justification for your behavior and I’m sorry I’ve made you feel the need to stoop to such a level.  I imagine you’d prefer to get that one back.


----------



## Danneq

Ronion said:


> That’s both condescending and simultaneously hilarious.
> 
> When you look at things realistically, there’s just no justification for your behavior and I’m sorry I’ve made you feel the need to stoop to such a level.  I imagine you’d prefer to get that one back.



Sorry, didn't mean it like that. Perhaps I should have phrased it another way. I sort of meant that after working on different earbuds and experimenting and perfecting your skills you might be able to make it a sort of second career.
At most I have changed cable on an earbud and would probably suck at making them from scratch. So I've got nothing but respect for all you DIY:ers.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 25, 2022)

Ronion said:


> That’s both condescending and simultaneously hilarious.
> 
> When you look at things realistically, there’s just no justification for your behavior and I’m sorry I’ve made you feel the need to stoop to such a level.  I imagine you’d prefer to get that one back.


I don't think @Danneq meant that in a bad way. He is Swedish, so very direct in his speech and literal in verbiage, which may come off as condescending to some when in fact it was not intended at all. I have known him for years now and have only seen gentlemanly posts (replies and comments) coming from him.

Oops! Sorry, I missed seeing @Danneq's reply and his clarification. I would have been VERY surprised if that reply of his was ill-intended.


----------



## Ronion

Danneq said:


> Sorry, didn't mean it like that. Perhaps I should have phrased it another way. I sort of meant that after working on different earbuds and experimenting and perfecting your skills you might be able to make it a sort of second career.
> At most I have changed cable on an earbud and would probably suck at making them from scratch. So I've got nothing but respect for all you DIY:ers.


There’s not enough money in to make it any sort of second career.  I wouldn’t think that a salesman status would have anything to do with quality.  If you need me to go deeper into this topic I gladly will but it would be difficult not to disparage sellers and I have no desire to do that.


----------



## o0genesis0o

gazzington said:


> What are the best earbuds for orchestral music such as Mahler symphonies?  A few options at different price bands would be very much appreciated


I like FF3 for orchestral music more than anything else in my collection, be it IEM or headphone. These buds lend cellos and bass strength to form the back bone of a symphony or concerto. I have great time listening to Mozart Requiem as well as modern compositions like Skyrim soundtracks.



Ronion said:


> I wish everyone would do a little DIY.  Last night after tearing down a garage, tired and sore, I drank 9%ABV beer, and in less than 10 minutes in a dimly lit room built and tuned the 600Ohm Be drivers with less than $40 spent to an approximation of my curve.  I used my dirty old HeiGi foams for the tuning because I want to know what these things are going to sound like when they reach their steady state.  They are a knockout!  Separation, clarity, composure, warmth and soundstage is all there.  A completely fatigue-free sound that can play anything optimally (approximately) barring hiphop or some electronica.  Even then it has enough power handling that it’s not horrible.  I can get these to sound a little closer to perfect, but my tuning supplies are running short and my desire to fiddle is low.  I wish everyone would just buy a TOTL driver and have a go.  I messed around with a lot of cheap ones to get comfortable, but it’s largely unnecessary.  One or 2 practice runs for due diligence and then go for it.



I need to try those drivers. Since your target is similar to FF3 response and you can hit that without any extra holes, vents, rivets, etc., I am very curious about those drivers now.

I managed to squeeze the most out of the 64 ohm Ti composite drivers now, but it involved a lot of prototyping and measurements. In the end, I needed large back vent (3mm), tuning filter on the vent, double horse shoes. The result is okay for me, particularly the soundstage, but the bass is not FF3 good.


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> My cable isn't like that. It's straight from the split up. No twist in the jacket at all. I noticed this last night, but apparently forgot to post about it. Interesting...🤔


Hmm, maybe you got a pre-production cable and the rest of us got the production ones?


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Hmm, maybe you got a pre-production cable and the rest of us got the production ones?


Either way (straight or cork screwed) I would take this cable over any of the previous cables Smabat has sent with their buds. It is more akin to something that FiiO would put out, rather than the typical Smabat IMHO. 

For me, it just completes the package. 

Having said that, I have found that these (again to my ears) are piercing on all my DAPs except one. Of all things, it is NOT at all on my stinky phone (Samsung Note 9). LOL

These are the DAPs I have tested them with:

iBasso DX300 (Amp11.2 card, Amp12 card, Amp13 Nutube card)
iBasso DX160
FiiO (OG) X5
FiiO X3II
iPod Touch 6th gen
iPod Touch 3rd Gen
iPod Nano 
Shanling M0
They ARE getting a bit better (or I am getting deafer lol) because I can listen to some songs that I could not in the beginning, though still at lower levels. I REALLY want to love these because like @Ronion said about the ST20 Pro, they DO sound damn good, if they didn't hurt my ears.


----------



## mt877 (Sep 25, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Either way (straight or cork screwed) I would take this cable over any of the previous cables Smabat has sent with their buds. It is more akin to something that FiiO would put out, rather than the typical Smabat IMHO.
> 
> For me, it just completes the package.
> 
> ...


I was just joking with the cable response to @JAnonymous5150. I'm fairly certain the cable will relax and straighten out. I do like the cable provided with the ST10s B&G buds.

Wow, your hearing must be pretty sensitive to the high end. Are you using the stock Smabat foams? Did you try the FF3 bass or HieGi foams? How about a double stack, like full foam covered by a donut foam? @DBaldock9 said he had good success with HieGi foams on the Super One drivers.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> I was just joking with the cable response to @JAnonymous5150. I'm fairly certain the cable will relax and straighten out. I do like the cable provided with the ST10s B&G buds.
> 
> Wow, your hearing must be pretty sensitive to the high end. Are you using the stock Smabat foams? Did you try the FF3 bass or HieGi foams? How about a double stack, like full foam covered by a donut foam? @DBaldock9 said he had good success with HieGi foams on the Super One drivers.


Yeah, I like the stock cable with the ST10S B&G too, but just not as much as the one with the M4. I really liked the cable with the M2s Pro also, but again it is lacking beside the M4 IMO...

It isn't the high end, it is the upper mids (right at 2.5K, or very close to that) and it is pretty narrow, so it doesn't change the overall tonality. I actually wouldn't mind them having a bit more treble at 5K and maybe even a high shelf at 12K or so.

I have no other buds that are that harsh/agressive to me besides the Maria II (and maybe the Alpha1 are close). I have been using the FiiO bass foams on them. I have tried all sorts of tuning things to bring this down (short of EQ and I have done that too).

I tried double foams, and a silicone tip, then a foam over that. I tried ear hooks, hoping to bring them closer to my ear canals because when I press them pretty hard into my ears it brings up the rest of the sound (though the piercing remains the same). I have even tried all of the above at the same time.. LOL

Using a simple graphical EQ I can bring 2K down by 7dB and it is gone, but then they don't sound as good... I am in a dilemma here.... ROFL

In fairness, songs that don't have much in this region aren't bad at all (R&B except that fake clap they (over)used in the 80's, etc...) but female voices, and male high voices, and any sort of electric guitar playing high notes (basically most of the music that I enjoy the most lol), etc...


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Yeah, I like the stock cable with the ST10S B&G too, but just not as much as the one with the M4. I really liked the cable with the M2s Pro also, but again it is lacking beside the M4 IMO...
> 
> It isn't the high end, it is the upper mids (right at 2.5K, or very close to that) and it is pretty narrow, so it doesn't change the overall tonality. I actually wouldn't mind them having a bit more treble at 5K and maybe even a high shelf at 12K or so.
> 
> ...


It's tuning damper time then. The graph shows the damper will affect that 2.5 to 3K range.
I still haven't messed with them yet. I'm not being affected like you are and a bit too busy with other things right now.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Yeah, I like the stock cable with the ST10S B&G too, but just not as much as the one with the M4. I really liked the cable with the M2s Pro also, but again it is lacking beside the M4 IMO...
> 
> It isn't the high end, it is the upper mids (right at 2.5K, or very close to that) and it is pretty narrow, so it doesn't change the overall tonality. I actually wouldn't mind them having a bit more treble at 5K and maybe even a high shelf at 12K or so.
> 
> ...



That sucks, bro. Though, it makes perfect sense. I have had buds, IEMs, and headphones I have either owned or demoed that had a peak in very specific areas that makes listening uncomfortable for me, but boosting the entire range by that same amount or moving that peak sufficiently higher or lower and the discomfort goes away. Peaks can often make listening unbearable even in areas a person isn't traditionally sensitive to.


----------



## o0genesis0o

mt877 said:


> It's tuning damper time then. The graph shows the damper will affect that 2.5 to 3K range.
> I still haven't messed with them yet. I'm not being affected like you are and a bit too busy with other things right now.



It seems that the operation of these damping filters are kind of similar to the filter at the back of my DIY (photo). If the bass hole (or the whole bass tube in case of M4?) is wide open, both bass and upper midrange would be very loud, with a large dip around 1.25k. The more you dampen the hole, the more you can flatten the frequency response. If you choke the drivers even further, eventually the mid bass starts to drop. I like to use this trick on Letshuoer S12 for a "tighter" bass response.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> It's tuning damper time then. The graph shows the damper will affect that 2.5 to 3K range.
> I still haven't messed with them yet. I'm not being affected like you are and a bit too busy with other things right now.


Yessir! I have them on order. Thanks! I even used a 10 band graphic EQ (in Neutron) and did some rough subtraction to see at what frequencies and how far away they are from one another on type three and type one, and then input either subtractive or additive to match the difference in the tuning using the damper (assuming their graph is correct), and it DOES sound better in that region, but sounds pretty odd for the rest. We'll see... I am bound and determined to find a solution for these. 

I even looked at maybe adding some materials in the shell but looking at them (and this could be part of the problem) I see there is no room behind the driver at all, except through the port hole on the whole back side of the shell. I suspect that these will be fairly polarizing in how they sound to people because for these it appears that the ear itself is being used for acoustics more so than most other buds I have seen.

I am not sure when I became so damned sensitive to this region. I NEVER had any issues when I was much younger with ANY head gear. It either sounded good to me or not.. LOL

Anyhow, I will try and only post positive comments about them from now on (or at least not about the agressive(ness) I am hearing), because I don't wanna' "cry" about it over and over, and there ARE some REALLY good things going on with these, they just haven't been my focus when posting thus far. Those things also need to be said for potential new owners IMO. 

Having said that, on songs that I can listen a little bit louder, I think the SO driver sounds a bit better in these than does the M2s Pro with the same driver (and I REALLY like those). I think the bass might be a tad bit deeper on the M2s Pro, but punchier and more textured on the M4 (but I may amend that later). I also think the staging is a bit bigger on the M4 (though I am not sure how, maybe it is because of the bigger shell???).


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> It seems that the operation of these damping filters are kind of similar to the filter at the back of my DIY (photo). If the bass hole (or the whole bass tube in case of M4?) is wide open, both bass and upper midrange would be very loud, with a large dip around 1.25k. The more you dampen the hole, the more you can flatten the frequency response. If you choke the drivers even further, eventually the mid bass starts to drop. I like to use this trick on Letshuoer S12 for a "tighter" bass response.


BTW! Are the buds in that pic meant to be worn over ear, or does the cable just look that way because of the way it is bent?


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> BTW! Are the buds in that pic meant to be worn over ear, or does the cable just look that way because of the way it is bent?


They are for over-ear wear. I wanted something stable enough to do house work.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> They are for over-ear wear. I wanted something stable enough to do house work.


Fantastic! How are they working as such? 

The only ones I have worn successfully that way are the Smabat ST10S B&G, though I think if I took the cable and put it on the M2s pro or M4 they might work as well (since they are shaped much the same). The Yincrow models (RW2000 and RW3000) are also shaped similar, but they lose their "magic" in the sound department (to my ears) when worn over ear.


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> Fantastic! How are they working as such?
> 
> The only ones I have worn successfully that way are the Smabat ST10S B&G, though I think if I took the cable and put it on the M2s pro or M4 they might work as well (since they are shaped much the same). The Yincrow models (RW2000 and RW3000) are also shaped similar, but they lose their "magic" in the sound department (to my ears) when worn over ear.



They sound the same as cable down to me. I guess because the shell is like a round button, it does not matter much. The cable is on discount on Aliexpress: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004474789647.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.bea61802uGz2sE 

I don't know why they are so cheap, but they are very good. I have nothing to complain so far. The only complain to me is the drivers. I might replace the YD30 drivers with high impedance drivers to take advantage of the balanced cable.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> They sound the same as cable down to me. I guess because the shell is like a round button, it does not matter much. The cable is on discount on Aliexpress: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004474789647.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.bea61802uGz2sE
> 
> I don't know why they are so cheap, but they are very good. I have nothing to complain so far. The only complain to me is the drivers. I might replace the YD30 drivers with high impedance drivers to take advantage of the balanced cable.


It does look like a nice cable indeed (as does your DIY buds, in case I haven't told you). I wonder if if might be because they (possibly) lack any sort of purity that might cause (potential) impedance or capacitance issues??? Some of the processes they use to purify copper and silver are indeed costly, so that might be the kicker. 

When you say high impedance driver, which are you considering?


----------



## o0genesis0o (Sep 25, 2022)

samandhi said:


> It does look like a nice cable indeed (as does your DIY buds, in case I haven't told you). I wonder if if might be because they (possibly) lack any sort of purity that might cause (potential) impedance or capacitance issues??? Some of the processes they use to purify copper and silver are indeed costly, so that might be the kicker.
> 
> When you say high impedance driver, which are you considering?



I haven’t tested them with Andromeda, but the sound is normal so far. I’ll test with Andromeda and let you know how it goes.

I’m thinking about those Be drivers that Ronion has been using. I’m going to order those yellow and blue LCP drivers as well.

Edit: btw, I found the exact same cable used for this IEM cable. I remember they sell it in a big roll, like 10 or 100m in length. The costs of the cable and the plugs themselves are higher than the discount price of this Xihns cable already.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> I haven’t tested them with Andromeda, but the sound is normal so far. I’ll test with Andromeda and let you know how it goes.
> 
> I’m thinking about those Be drivers that Ronion has been using. I’m going to order those yellow and blue LCP drivers as well.


Cool! If it doesn't make any difference, then I say you got a heckuva' deal IMO. I have a couple of cheap cables that sound really good (with some but not all of my IEMs). They DID measure fairly high in impedance though, but I don't care as long as it plays well with the IEM... hehe For instance I bought this cable for something like the same price as the one you linked, and I really loved it with my T800 and DUNU DK2001 as well. 

Do let us know how that turns out for you?! From reading here it sounds like that Be driver will be something special in the end.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> The Yincrow models (RW2000 and RW3000) are also shaped similar, but they lose their "magic" in the sound department (to my ears) when worn over ear.



I completely agree. I have tried the 1000s, 2000s, and 3000s over ear and cable down and all three sound significantly better cable down. I don't think I have encountered any other buds where the change makes as big of a difference. They go from being great buds to listen for a variety of music to being sucked out messes with few redeeming values. It's actually kinda crazy to hear!


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> They go from being great buds to listen for a variety of music to being sucked out messes with few redeeming values.


LOL I don't know if I would have put it JUST like that, but I do like it (and subsequently agree).. haha


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Yessir! I have them on order. Thanks! I even used a 10 band graphic EQ (in Neutron) and did some rough subtraction to see at what frequencies and how far away they are from one another on type three and type one, and then input either subtractive or additive to match the difference in the tuning using the damper (assuming their graph is correct), and it DOES sound better in that region, but sounds pretty odd for the rest. We'll see... I am bound and determined to find a solution for these.
> 
> I even looked at maybe adding some materials in the shell but looking at them (and this could be part of the problem) I see there is no room behind the driver at all, except through the port hole on the whole back side of the shell. I suspect that these will be fairly polarizing in how they sound to people because for these it appears that the ear itself is being used for acoustics more so than most other buds I have seen.
> 
> ...


The goofy thing with Smabat is that they provide a graph with dampers named type 1, 2, 3 and 4. The damper kit only names them type 1, 2 and 3. So that provides some confusion factor. The dampers are very small. I was thinking about trying to take some magnified images of the dampers to see the actual screen mesh size of them so we could understand what is what. I'm gonna send Smabat support an email asking them about the damper naming as compare to the graph they provide and see what they say.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> The goofy thing with Smabat is that they provide a graph with dampers named type 1, 2, 3 and 4. The damper kit only names them type 1, 2 and 3. So that provides some confusion factor. The dampers are very small. I was thinking about trying to take some magnified images of the dampers to see the actual screen mesh size of them so we could understand what is what. I'm gonna send Smabat support an email asking them about the damper naming as compare to the graph they provide and see what they say.


Very interesting indeed. I will await response from Smabat. Thanks!


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Very interesting indeed. I will await response from Smabat. Thanks!


I just sent the email, so hope for a reply from their support. One thing I thought of is that maybe type 4 means to remove all damper. Maybe that is what they mean by type 4? I did ask them if type 4 means to remove all damper. Hopefully we'll get a clear explanation from them.


----------



## samandhi

Less than useful but here is a sample photo of the stock damper (though it is still on the unit):



Spoiler



Not sure what happened with the lighting, it didn't look like this as I was looking at it... I haven't used the camera feature of my microscope before so it may just be what it is.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 25, 2022)

mt877 said:


> I just sent the email, so hope for a reply from their support. One thing I thought of is that maybe type 4 means to remove all damper. Maybe that is what they mean by type 4? I did ask them if type 4 means to remove all damper. Hopefully we'll get a clear explanation from them.



Is there a preinstalled damper that could be type 4? I haven't looked and don't have them in front of me.

Edit: @samandhi and I posted simultaneously and it looks like we might have been thinking along the same lines. 🤔


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Less than useful but here is a sample photo of the stock damper (though it is still on the unit):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice! You could go into business taking pictures of fly eyes. LOL!


----------



## samandhi (Sep 25, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Is there a preinstalled damper that could be type 4? I haven't looked and don't have them in front of me.
> 
> Edit: @samandhi and I posted simultaneously and it looks like we might have been thinking along the same lines. 🤔


Yep, there is one preinstalled and the stock ones on it are type 3 (according to Smabat). So maybe they have mislabeled them???


mt877 said:


> Nice! You could go into business taking pictures of fly eyes. LOL!


LOL that actually looks a bit like fly's eyes.... 🪰


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Is there a preinstalled damper that could be type 4? I haven't looked and don't have them in front of me.
> 
> Edit: @samandhi and I posted simultaneously and it looks like we might have been thinking along the same lines. 🤔


Yeah, there is a stock damper installed. According to the graph they specifically call the white line "M4 + type 3", so that makes me think that is the stock tuning. Those little dampers have edge adhesive, so if the one installed was type 4 and they only give us 1, 2 and 3 and no type 4 we would be screwed. If you removed the stock damper and the adhesive pulled off or got messed up you'd have a hard time securing them back in again. Ok, granted some people are more resourceful than others and could get it tacked back in place just fine, but you know what I mean. I'm kind of thinking type 4 could mean to remove the damper and leave it open. Hopefully I get a reply with an explanation from Smabat soon.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Yeah, there is a stock damper installed. According to the graph they specifically call the white line "M4 + type 3", so that makes me think that is the stock tuning. Those little dampers have edge adhesive, so if the one installed was type 4 and they only give us 1, 2 and 3 and no type 4 we would be screwed. If you removed the stock damper and the adhesive pulled off or got messed up you'd have a hard time securing them back in again. Ok, granted some people are more resourceful than others and could get it tacked back in place just fine, but you know what I mean. I'm kind of thinking type 4 could mean to remove the damper and leave it open. Hopefully I get a reply with an explanation from Smabat soon.


That seems perfectly logical to me, and it wouldn't surprise me that that is the case. 

So, with the stock ones there is adhesive on the top as well as the bottom. I only know this because I tried stuffing a bit of cotton in between the shell and the driver (as an experiment), and while it didn't work well, some fibers are still stuck on the damper; if you look at the edges of the damper in the photo, you can see the cotton strands.


----------



## mt877

Here's a scan of the M4 damper with comparison to the type 3 damper. The damper shown installed in the M4 base is like a window screen with the mesh interwoven, so it might look like the mesh is rectangular, but it's really square. It just looks rectangular because the of the mesh weave. So it appears that the type 3 is the stock damper.



Spoiler: M4 stock damper type 3










I captured the tuning damper images with my slide scanner.


Spoiler: M4 tuning dampers type 1, 2 and 3 mesh


----------



## samandhi (Sep 26, 2022)

mt877 said:


> Here's a scan of the M4 damper with comparison to the type 3 damper. The damper shown installed in the M4 base is like a window screen with the mesh interwoven, so it might look like the mesh is rectangular, but it's really square. It just looks rectangular because the of the mesh weave. So it appears that the type 3 is the stock damper.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yours looks so much better than mine... LOL

Given the pictures and that type 1 has the largest holes and looking at the graph, wouldn't removing the damper altogether tame the presence region the most?

If that is the case, then Smabat's type 4 must be a closed damper (or close to anyhow).


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Yours looks so much better than mine... LOL
> 
> Given the pictures and that type 1 has the largest holes and looking at the graph, wouldn't removing the damper altogether tame the presence region the most.
> 
> If that is the case, then Smabat's type 4 must be a closed damper (or close to anyhow).


Your logic sounds correct. I was throwing it out there for the type 4 because it doesn't make sense that Smabat only gives 1, 2 and 3. Maybe the type 3 in the damper kit is really type 4? If that's the case then if you remove the stock damper and want to go back to stock tuning later it might not be possible if you can't get the stock damper to stay in place. Smabat gotz some explaining to do...


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Your logic sounds correct. I was throwing it out there for the type 4 because it doesn't make sense that Smabat only gives 1, 2 and 3. Maybe the type 3 in the damper kit is really type 4? If that's the case then if you remove the stock damper and want to go back to stock tuning later it might not be possible if you can't get the stock damper to stay in place. Smabat gotz some explaining to do...


For sure!  I may wait and see what is what from them, but I suspect that I may yank mine altogether to test (once I have something to put back in place in case I don't like it)...


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> I like FF3 for orchestral music more than anything else in my collection, be it IEM or headphone. These buds lend cellos and bass strength to form the back bone of a symphony or concerto. I have great time listening to Mozart Requiem as well as modern compositions like Skyrim soundtracks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Some drivers require a lot of finessing.  Others just don’t.  This one doesn’t *for people like us who have a good understanding of the acoustics involved*.  That said, I’m sure I will eek the last 10% out of these things sooner or later.  Right now, I’m just enjoying the incredible technicalities of these drivers and the extreme comfort of the HeiGi foam.  

Sorry, labrinthian Diatribe forthcoming:

People who think that drivers don’t matter, it’s only frequency response are mad.  I have over a dozen buds tuned to essentially the same curve.  There’s an enormous difference in technicalities (by a music lover’s metric).  Since most of them are in an MX500 shell, I feel confident in that assessment.  It reminds me of pizza. When I go to a pizza shop and order a Margherita, I expect a Margherita.  I don’t expect them to be of the same quality however and price isn’t the best indicator of the quality you’ll receive.  In a tourist zone, you could pay double and get lower quality cheese or crust or whatever…. Some ingredients certainly have less of an impact than others: think cables or origin of the salt.  In any case, you can expect excellent technicalities with this driver.  The driver being the most essential ingredient. Tune it to approximate the FF3 curve and you should be good to go.  I’d bet you can do it in under an hour start to finish.  

People who think this stuff is magic are also mad.  Better ingredients, better pizza.  What flavor do you want? FiiO, Harman, diffuse field, CAL!, Ronion, 650, 800, Caprese, Ice pick?  Whatever you want is possible barring beneath 40Hz.  I haven’t seen that yet.  Even $600 buds are coming in off the shelf MX500 shells.  None of this is magic.  Anyone telling you it’s magic is trying to swindle you.  it’s just intelligently manipulating the shell to achieve your goal.   All the learning that comes before may make it much easier for you, but that certainly doesn’t make it less quality.  Don’t let anyone tell you “oh you built it in an hour so it can’t be that good.”  It’s a stupid train of thought.  You’ve spent years manipulating transducers.  All that experience has led to learning.  I literally spent years just getting to a target curve.  I got there long before I ever built a headphone.  I just knew that every headphone I ever purchased had an unacceptable sound.  I needed to know why.  So I read books on how we hear and how our brains interpret measurable acoustic phenomena and I set about formulating a target curve.  When @FranQL showed me the ropes, I knew what I had to do, but it took more pushing from @furyossa, @jeejack, @Setmagic, @captione, @Rary and several others to really get me to dive in fully.  I had already molded my ear a decade before, I had made most of the necessary measurements, all I had to do was to understand the acoustics of an earbud shell.  So I methodically approached it, delineated, and saved everything for future reference.  When I read things like “if you hone your skill”, I have to shake my head.  There’s an intense amount of love and devotion that goes into what I’ve done.  I just want @Danneq to understand that there are 2 sides of simplicity.  I’m not on the ignorant side of it.  Just because I can tune a bud in a few minutes does not mean I take the task lightly.  It just means that I have studied, done my homework, and know how to ace the test.  I want to push @o0genesis0o to do the same.  He has a rational way of approaching tuning and the ability and desire to contrive meaningful acoustic experiments and doesn’t believe in magic.  He also understands the importance of the driver and the tuning of it.  IOW, he has the vast majority of it down and what he may not, he could in just a few more experiments if he hasn’t already behind the scenes.  When you understand how to do magic, you no longer believe it exists.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> Some drivers require a lot of finessing.  Others just don’t.  This one doesn’t *for people like us who have a good understanding of the acoustics involved*.  That said, I’m sure I will eek the last 10% out of these things sooner or later.  Right now, I’m just enjoying the incredible technicalities of these drivers and the extreme comfort of the HeiGi foam.
> 
> Sorry, labrinthian Diatribe forthcoming:
> 
> ...



What a amplification and sources are you plugging into to get the best out of these drivers? I'm just curious for future reference since I have three pairs of them myself that I'll eventually be using in my own creations when I have the time.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Hey @samandhi check have you ever given the band Umphrey's McGee a listen? If not try their album Anchor Drops Redux and/or It's You and let me know what you think.

For anyone else that's interested I highly recommend these guys. I was listening to them on my CAX Black Editions earlier and I have to say they're fantastic. I just listened to them for the first time today at the behest of another head-fier (thanks again @rids57 ). I have already listened to four of their albums during various lulls and breaks today and I'm hooked. Very good stuff! I hope you guys enjoy.

P.S. I plan on giving the Anchor Drops Redux album a whirl on the FF3s after I finish listening to the Grateful Dead album I'm relaxing to right now because I think the lush baselines and keyboard work on that album would sound pretty killer on them as well so FF3 owners may want to plug in and tune in.


----------



## Ronion (Sep 26, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> What a amplification and sources are you plugging into to get the best out of these drivers? I'm just curious for future reference since I have three pairs of them myself that I'll eventually be using in my own creations when I have the time.


I always use my A5 or e12MB.  For something more special sounding I use my B4-X.  It still does okay off a dongle as well.  Just barely though.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hey @samandhi check have you ever given the band Umphrey's McGee a listen? If not try their album Anchor Drops Redux and/or It's You and let me know what you think.
> 
> For anyone else that's interested I highly recommend these guys. I was listening to them on my CAX Black Editions earlier and I have to say they're fantastic. I just listened to them for the first time today at the behest of another head-fier (thanks again @rids57 ). I have already listened to four of their albums during various lulls and breaks today and I'm hooked. Very good stuff! I hope you guys enjoy.
> 
> P.S. I plan on giving the Anchor Drops Redux album a whirl on the FF3s after I finish listening to the Grateful Dead album I'm relaxing to right now because I think the lush baselines and keyboard work on that album would sound pretty killer on them as well so FF3 owners may want to plug in and tune in.


I have not heard them, but I certainly will give them a listen and let ya' know. Thanks for the rec! 



Ronion said:


> Some drivers require a lot of finessing.  Others just don’t.  This one doesn’t *for people like us who have a good understanding of the acoustics involved*.  That said, I’m sure I will eek the last 10% out of these things sooner or later.  Right now, I’m just enjoying the incredible technicalities of these drivers and the extreme comfort of the HeiGi foam.
> 
> Sorry, labrinthian Diatribe forthcoming:
> 
> ...


Damn brother! Very nice write-up. Are your fingers cramped after all that?   

While I have learned (from you among others) that there isn't really any magic going on, I also think that when a person doesn't know/understand the science behind stuff, it is often looked upon as magic, even if that "magician/scientist" explains it. It takes true dedication and no small amount of skill to deliver something amazing (as @FranQL has done for me, and would probably have been you were you not busy at the time). It will not diminish in my mind because you name it something else besides magic. I think the magic is in the knowing and putting it all together. For that I will never see it as "simple" or "easy" as you might suggest and respect your ability and knowledge for it as well.

Speaking of which, it does indeed show that you have passion for your hobby insomuch as you don't seem to ever rest on your laurels (for instance). You always seem to seek more knowledge about the art (whether it be acoustics, design, theory, etc...). I, for one like to see your graphs, and new "toys" and learn about the journey you might have taken with a difficult set. 

Anyhow, enough of my rambling! LOL


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> I have not heard them, but I certainly will give them a listen and let ya' know. Thanks for the rec!
> 
> 
> Damn brother! Very nice write-up. Are your fingers cramped after all that?
> ...



So can we all hug now? LOL😉

Seriously though, you have to love the camaraderie and mutual respect that goes on in this thread!

P.S. I'll be interested to hear what you and others think.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hey @samandhi check have you ever given the band Umphrey's McGee a listen? If not try their album Anchor Drops Redux and/or It's You and let me know what you think.
> 
> For anyone else that's interested I highly recommend these guys. I was listening to them on my CAX Black Editions earlier and I have to say they're fantastic. I just listened to them for the first time today at the behest of another head-fier (thanks again @rids57 ). I have already listened to four of their albums during various lulls and breaks today and I'm hooked. Very good stuff! I hope you guys enjoy.
> 
> P.S. I plan on giving the Anchor Drops Redux album a whirl on the FF3s after I finish listening to the Grateful Dead album I'm relaxing to right now because I think the lush baselines and keyboard work on that album would sound pretty killer on them as well so FF3 owners may want to plug in and tune in.


I am listening to them right now... OMG they are from South Bend Indiana (one of my stomping grounds)...  This means I automatically like them. LOL

I am on the first song on the album still, but I really do already like this alot! I may have all of their stuff before it is over (if this song is any indication of the rest of it).


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> So can we all hug now? LOL😉


Don't do that while I am trying to take a drink... haha


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> I am listening to them right now... OMG they are from South Bend Indiana (one of my stomping grounds)...  This means I automatically like them. LOL
> 
> I am on the first song on the album still, but I really do already like this alot! I may have all of their stuff before it is over (if this song is any indication of the rest of it).



I thought you might dig it! When I first listened to them I immediately knew I needed to recommend them to you and my bassist, but then immediately forgot because I got lost in the jam. I just remembered when I was making a playlst with some of their stuff on it for listening later.

If you don't mind me asking, why is South Bend a stomping ground for you? Did you go to Notre Dame?


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I thought you might dig it! When I first listened to them I immediately knew I needed to recommend them to you and my bassist, but then immediately forgot because I got lost in the jam. I just remembered when I was making a playlst with some of their stuff on it for listening later.
> 
> If you don't mind me asking, why is South Bend a stomping ground for you? Did you go to Notre Dame?


Nope. I grew up in Indy (never missed an Indy 500), but had friends that lived there and visited quite frequently (we didn't do any drinking or anything, nope uh uh )... And I actually took a job there much later in life (right near the golf course, which was great for ND football for me, I could walk there).


----------



## samandhi

Oh, and you were right... This is one of those "multi-listen" albums. There is no way to get it all in one take.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> Some drivers require a lot of finessing.  Others just don’t.  This one doesn’t *for people like us who have a good understanding of the acoustics involved*.  That said, I’m sure I will eek the last 10% out of these things sooner or later.  Right now, I’m just enjoying the incredible technicalities of these drivers and the extreme comfort of the HeiGi foam.
> 
> Sorry, labrinthian Diatribe forthcoming:
> 
> ...



What an epic write up. I hope that I wouldn’t disappoint you   

I’m not quite happy with my approach, because I work like Edison who tried all combinations and took note, rather than like Tesla who reasons to reduce the guesswork. All the maths and physics are threatening, though if I learn more and rely more on simulation, for instance, I think I can get better results. That’s why I am enthusiastic about Smabat M4. Normal people can swap drivers and tuning rapidly to learn.



JAnonymous5150 said:


> What a amplification and sources are you plugging into to get the best out of these drivers? I'm just curious for future reference since I have three pairs of them myself that I'll eventually be using in my own creations when I have the time.



I’m still puzzled why sources sound different. Reviewing Shanling UP4 at the moment, and I feel like a fraud for saying that Andromeda sounds richer and more impactful on UP4 comparing to Apple dongle. I mean it’s Andromeda. It requires only peanut in power output to make sound.


----------



## Danneq

Ronion said:


> Some drivers require a lot of finessing.  Others just don’t.  This one doesn’t *for people like us who have a good understanding of the acoustics involved*.  That said, I’m sure I will eek the last 10% out of these things sooner or later.  Right now, I’m just enjoying the incredible technicalities of these drivers and the extreme comfort of the HeiGi foam.
> 
> Sorry, labrinthian Diatribe forthcoming:
> 
> ...



Man, it was a general statement, not a personal attack. Perhaps I'm too used to Swedes and Japanese people. We take things and statements at face value and do not look for ulterior motives or meanings. Everyone starts somewhere and work their way to perfection. I have pretty much been away from this thread since 2020, so I have no knowledge of your DIY work. There was only limited DIY talk then. RikudouGoku had just joined and was starting to discover earbuds. Until about 2 months ago I didn't even know that he started making his own earbuds.
It's great that there are more DIY buds now. A few years ago the DIY buds you could buy were pretty bad (anyone remembers Dasetn from around 2015? I still bought 8 different models from them and liked them a lot, but looking back they were not that great.)

So please do not think that general statements are personal attacks or insults.

I only argue about politics and I want to keep that separated from audio and other hobbies.


----------



## Ronion

Danneq said:


> Man, it was a general statement, not a personal attack. Perhaps I'm too used to Swedes and Japanese people. We take things and statements at face value and do not look for ulterior motives or meanings. Everyone starts somewhere and work their way to perfection. I have pretty much been away from this thread since 2020, so I have no knowledge of your DIY work. There was only limited DIY talk then. RikudouGoku had just joined and was starting to discover earbuds. Until about 2 months ago I didn't even know that he started making his own earbuds.
> It's great that there are more DIY buds now. A few years ago the DIY buds you could buy were pretty bad (anyone remembers Dasetn from around 2015? I still bought 8 different models from them and liked them a lot, but looking back they were not that great.)
> 
> So please do not think that general statements are personal attacks or insults.
> ...


Ah…. I hate things like this, but I will respond.  Your statements were literally that I needed to hone my skill to get to where I could sell buds and they were uninformed.  Your Swedish or more certainly your Japanese association has nothing to do with that as far as I can tell.  I lived in Japan for years.  I didn’t run into a lot of Japanese doings things like that at all especially from a point of ignorance.  My experience was actually the opposite.  I’m just taking your statements at face value and that’s literally what they mean in English just as you wrote.  They are just wrong, and I took the time to politely point that out.  Perhaps I’m too used to Americans LOL.   Actually they are the minority where I live.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> What an epic write up. I hope that I wouldn’t disappoint you
> 
> I’m not quite happy with my approach, because I work like Edison who tried all combinations and took note, rather than like Tesla who reasons to reduce the guesswork. All the maths and physics are threatening, though if I learn more and rely more on simulation, for instance, I think I can get better results. That’s why I am enthusiastic about Smabat M4. Normal people can swap drivers and tuning rapidly to learn.
> 
> ...


Your systematically making data!  That’s as good as it gets as far as I’m concerned.


----------



## o0genesis0o

@Danneq @Ronion at least you guys get excited about earbuds. That’s a plus to me   

Can’t wait to buy more drivers to experiment. However, I have promised Smabat to measure and review the complete set of M4, so I guess I should deal with that first. Finger crossed that they are good products. I haven’t felt this eager for a product for a while.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 26, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Ah…. I hate things like this, but I will respond.  Your statements were literally that I needed to hone my skill to get to where I could sell buds and they were uninformed.  Your Swedish or more certainly your Japanese association has nothing to do with that as far as I can tell.  I lived in Japan for years.  I didn’t run into a lot of Japanese doings things like that at all especially from a point of ignorance.  My experience was actually the opposite.  I’m just taking your statements at face value and that’s literally what they mean in English just as you wrote.  They are just wrong, and I took the time to politely point that out.  Perhaps I’m too used to Americans LOL.   Actually they are the minority where I live.


Little brother you are honestly* tilting at windmills* here. He meant no offense at all and apologized to you. Where or how was he coming from a point of ignorance? The only ignorance happening here is your unwillingness to accept his clarification and apology. It is clear to everyone else that it was a conversational exchange... a light-handed remark of encouragement and not meant as a slight, especially after he explained himself. As The Joker would say: "way so serious?"

Please reflect for a moment and consider that you might have simply been too defensive... mistook his reply, taking it too literally and in the completely wrong way as intended. *@Danneq* has been a very respectful and kind-hearted chap in all his posts I have seen over many years I doubt he meant any ill-will or disrespect nor does he have a hidden agenda. His wife is Japanese, he knows the culture well. He was only saying that like Swedes, Japanese do not expect their statements to be spin-doctored and/or nefarious hidden meanings to be found within them (no reading between the lines with them). You surely had to experience that in your time in land of the rising sun, yes? I did/do.

The problem with the internet is that the tone of posts can be easily misconstrued and quickly interpreted as being disrespectful, impolite, condescending, arrogant, elitist, etc. Add in cultural differences, varying mother tongues, different time-zones and times of day, etc. and it truly becomes a recipe for miscommunication and misunderstanding.

Peace.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 26, 2022)

Ronion said:


> What upgraded items are you referring to?


Oh, I think you put it in much better words than I did: "*Better ingredients*, better pizza". I really like that analogy, very fitting.


----------



## Danneq

Ronion said:


> Ah…. I hate things like this, but I will respond.  Your statements were literally that I needed to hone my skill to get to where I could sell buds and they were uninformed.  Your Swedish or more certainly your Japanese association has nothing to do with that as far as I can tell.  I lived in Japan for years.  I didn’t run into a lot of Japanese doings things like that at all especially from a point of ignorance.  My experience was actually the opposite.  I’m just taking your statements at face value and that’s literally what they mean in English just as you wrote.  They are just wrong, and I took the time to politely point that out.  Perhaps I’m too used to Americans LOL.   Actually they are the minority where I live.



Yeah, I hate things like this as well. A small general comment being blown up to gigantic proportions like it was a slap to someones face. Since I have not heard any of your earbuds my comment has no relation whatsoever to them. It was just a general comment. You seem intent to misunderstand and become insulted. 

This is, or used to be, a place where people could get advice on earbuds. There are more options now than a few years ago so advice is more needed than ever. Some try with blind buys and take a risk so that others don't have to. I am happy to try TOTL earbuds and give my impressions of them. Other than that my knowledge of current earbuds are very limited. The only other part I can contribute is Cypherus since I've owned most of those and Herry's still making them.

The TRN-EMX is not improving. They have all sorts of accessories with 3 different plugs included but sadly are lacking in sound quality. The sound lacks body, so to speak and there's this metallic sheen that colors the music. I would not recommend them.

Will try to buy Rose Martini, DQSM PD21 and 7HZ Beatles over the coming months. I wasn't active in this thread for around 2 years, so I can stay away a couple of years more and hope that it will be the same sort of place it was ca 2010-2020.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Danneq said:


> Will try to buy Rose Martini, DQSM PD21 and 7HZ Beatles



It's the first time I heard about the Beatles pair. How did you find out about it? Given 7Hz pedigree in planar, I'm surprised that their flagship earbuds are not planar.


----------



## ttorbic

Danneq said:


> I am happy to try TOTL earbuds and give my impressions of them


Hi there! Would you consider DIY TOTL earbuds? I know @tgx78 and @RikudouGoku are making some fiinnee earbuds that reach the upper echelon of sonic performance (based on personal and reviewers' experiences).


----------



## digititus (Sep 26, 2022)

Earbud enthusiasts!

A small comment regarding the flourishing of our beloved DIY products. This area will always lead the way in showing what one can achieve from a small financial and labor investment compared to current corporate offerings. A $5 DIY bud can indeed sound like a commercial $50. However, these two areas are not in any way comparable. A full cycle manufacturing process (from raw material to the retail product on the shelf) is a world apart from the DIY producer. This is an area I am very familiar with. Some love and respect for the real hero's of our hobby goes to Venture Electronics, Smabat, Fiio, Yincrow, Moondrop, Rose Technics and so on who are fully invested in bringing great products to our niche market. Let's support them both whilst not trying to judge them by the same criteria.


----------



## o0genesis0o

digititus said:


> Earbud enthusiasts!
> 
> A small comment regarding the flourishing of our beloved DIY products. This area will always lead the way in showing what one can achieve from a small financial and labor investment compared to current corporate offerings. A $5 DIY bud can indeed sound like a commercial $50. However, these two areas are not in any way comparable. A full cycle manufacturing process (from raw material to the retail product on the shelf) is a world apart from the DIY producer. This is an area I am very familiar with. Some love and respect for the real hero's of our hobby goes to Venture Electronics, Smabat, Fiio, Yincorow, Moondrop, Rose Technics and so on who are fully invested in bringing great products to our niche market. Let's support them both whilst not trying to judge them by the same criteria.



I like to think of DIY vs commercial as home cook vs restaurant chef. You might be able to cook well, but you are unlikely to be able to run a professional kitchen that delivers consistent results again and again.


----------



## BCool

o0genesis0o said:


> I like to think of DIY vs commercial as home cook vs restaurant chef. You might be able to cook well, but you are unlikely to be able to run a professional kitchen that delivers consistent results again and again.



I'd modify that slightly by saying it's more home kitchen vs restaurant kitchen. A pro chef will be able to work wonders in both, but there are some things that require specialised equipment and processes and consistency that only a professional setup can provide.


----------



## Danneq

o0genesis0o said:


> It's the first time I heard about the Beatles pair. How did you find out about it? Given 7Hz pedigree in planar, I'm surprised that their flagship earbuds are not planar.


I came across it on Aliexpress by accident. Costs $259 and I hope that will go down on Black Friday.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I really appreciate all the advice present and future. I'd like to think I'm patient and respectful to any DIYers in particular, but knowing that it's still just a hobby and not a business for him is certainly a good thing to keep in mind. One question though, so even though he has models and product lines he'll custom tune to preferences?


Yes, however at the moment he is limited to one model line (series) so he may not be able to cover every (all) desired signatures like at other times when he is flush with supplies and offering multiple different model lines. Sorry that I was a bit unclear there before. I personally prefer his PK models much more than I do his MX based lines which are more aggressive and/or too far forward for my tastes. The Blur House Sound is mid-centric / mid-forward and is known to be quite focused on vocals though he can change that if you patiently work with him. The last few models he made for me have been warmer, darker, and less forward while still honoring the Blur House Sound.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 26, 2022)

Danneq said:


> Will try to buy Rose Martini, DQSM PD21 and *7HZ Beatles* over the coming months. I wasn't active in this thread for around 2 years, so I can stay away a couple of years more and hope that it will be the same sort of place it was ca 2010-2020.





o0genesis0o said:


> It's the first time I heard about the Beatles pair. How did you find out about it? Given 7Hz pedigree in planar, I'm surprised that their flagship earbuds are not planar.





Danneq said:


> I came across it on Aliexpress by accident. Costs $259 and I hope that will go down on Black Friday.


*2020 - 7Hz Beatles; 32Ω (w/ nano ZnO crystal diaphragm)*​
I would highly advise to avoid the Beatles... I wish I had taken *@Alex.Grimm*'s sage advice and not buy it. A total train wreck of an earbud which is so surprising coming from the team that created the Timeless. It was so fatiguing and confusing that I gave up trying to understand it. So disappointing...






Rose Martini and DQSM PD21 are both at or near god-tier status. You will win with either of those. *@ClieOS* especially liked the PD21... I may be mistaken on this but I think he liked even more than he did the Turandot which he liked very much and had convinced me to buy it way back when. I still think I prefer the Rose Maria I and II better than the Martini though but that is simply personal preference.


----------



## Danneq (Sep 26, 2022)

ttorbic said:


> Hi there! Would you consider DIY TOTL earbuds? I know @tgx78 and @RikudouGoku are making some fiinnee earbuds that reach the upper echelon of sonic performance (based on personal and reviewers' experiences).


Definitely. TGX78's earbuds look very nice. But a few years I decided to only buy low impedance earbuds that can easily be driven by a simple DAP (for example a Sansa Clip). Riku's earbuds also look interesting. Might check one or two of them out.

You have to remember that Cypherus earbuds are DIY. A couple of years ago I tried a lot of Indonesian DIY earbuds and became convinced that Indonesia was the promised land of earbuds. Still have my pair of AB-normal Diomnes Lv2 earbuds (great sounding TOTL level earbuds based on the VE Monk 1). Loved the Edimund earbuds such as Red De'mun.

Like digititus writes $5 DIY earbuds can compare to $50 commercial ones.
When I started coming to Head fi there was only Yuin PK earbuds if you wanted earbuds. Audio Techica had the CM series but those were hard to come by. Then slowly smaller earbud makers like Blox started releasing earbuds. Then Sennheiser released MX980 and MX985. Later Chinese makers started to release more and more earbuds. Still a small market but a lot more options nowadays.


----------



## Danneq

WoodyLuvr said:


> *2020 - 7Hz Beatles; 32Ω (w/ nano ZnO crystal diaphragm)*​
> I would highly advise to avoid the Beatles... I wish I had taken *@Alex.Grimm*'s sage advice and not buy it. A total train wreck of an earbud which is so surprising coming from the team that created the Timeless. It was so fatiguing and confusing that I gave up trying to understand it. So disappointing...
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for biting the bullet, my friend. Then that one is off the list!
Celsius Gramo One was my first earbud over $200 and your impressions of the 7HZ Beatles remind me of my impressions of the Gramo One.


----------



## koniotaur

Guess after some time with them I agree with what you've said... The EMX lacks body @Danneq. Wouldn't recommend them either


----------



## samandhi (Sep 26, 2022)

While 7Hz did have a big hit with the Timeless, they had two DD IEMs before that which were not hits at all. And it also appears to be much the same with the Dioko (another planar), even in collaboration with Crinacle. So far, they have been a one-trick pony where IEMs have been concerned. It is no surprise to me that they have an earbud line, but it is also no surprise that they aren't very popular.

Having said all of that, I don't want to say that 7Hz got lucky, but they sort of did. It goes back to what @Ronion said (IMO). And that is that you must start with a quality driver, and 7hz was basically first up to bat with a new driver. There is no real proof of this, but I suspect that Letshuoer would use the same driver, and also became a hit with the S12. Tinhifi P1 Max was next in line (also using this same driver, I suspect), followed by the Raptgo Hook-X (yep you guessed it, using the same driver). DUNU has gotten into the game now with the Talos, and for a fourth time, it is eerily similar to that 14.xx driver that has been in some hot ticket items. That brings us full circle back to 7Hz. Salnotes (a budget sister company of 7Hz) came out with the Dioko just recently, and while they aren't very popular, I suspect it is not so much because they sound bad, it is more because they look like grandma's jewelry. Though they DO sound bad according to some. I think it is using that same 14.xx driver that has fueled some very popular planar IEMs. Now of course they all say "custom 14.xx planar driver" but that really means nothing. Change anything about it and it can be called custom.

On the other hand, I could be totally wrong on this, and is only conjecture on my part (and others that have also taken note) from closely watching the planar IEMs that have been released in the last (whatever) time period.

Anyhow, I went way off course there and didn't mean to. The point is that I think, much like DUNU did with the Alpha 1 (which is also still not discontinued, and is priced similarly), 7Hz put out an earbud just to have one out there, and don't really care about the bud itself.


----------



## mt877

mt877 said:


> Here's a scan of the M4 damper with comparison to the type 3 damper. The damper shown installed in the M4 base is like a window screen with the mesh interwoven, so it might look like the mesh is rectangular, but it's really square. It just looks rectangular because the of the mesh weave. So it appears that the type 3 is the stock damper.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm pretty busy with work this week, but just wanted to revisit this M4 damper thing. I did a reflective scan of the type 3 damper so it would more closely match what the installed stock damper looks like. While it is not an exact match between the two, the mesh sizing is more visible and looks quite close. Still waiting for Smabat's reply to my email about the tuning dampers.



Spoiler: M4 stock damper type 3 redux


----------



## baskingshark

WoodyLuvr said:


> *2020 - 7Hz Beatles; 32Ω (w/ nano ZnO crystal diaphragm)*​
> I would highly advise to avoid the Beatles... I wish I had taken *@Alex.Grimm*'s sage advice and not buy it. A total train wreck of an earbud which is so surprising coming from the team that created the Timeless. It was so fatiguing and confusing that I gave up trying to understand it. So disappointing...





samandhi said:


> While 7Hz did have a big hit with the Timeless, they had two DD IEMs before that which were not hits at all. And it also appears to be much the same with the Dioko (another planar), even in collaboration with Crinacle. So far, they have been a one-trick pony where IEMs have been concerned. It is no surprise to me that they have an earbud line, but it is also no surprise that they aren't very popular.
> 
> Having said all of that, I don't want to say that 7Hz got lucky, but they sort of did. It goes back to what @Ronion said (IMO). And that is that you must start with a quality driver, and 7hz was basically first up to bat with a new driver. There is no real proof of this, but I suspect that Letshuoer would use the same driver, and also became a hit. Tinhifi P1 Max was next in line (also using this same driver, I suspect), followed by the Raptgo Hook-X (yep you guessed it, using the same driver). DUNU has gotten into the game now with the Talos, and for a fourth time, it is eerily similar to that 14.xx driver that has been in some hot ticket items. That brings us full circle back to 7Hz. Salnotes (a budget sister company of 7Hz) came out with the Dioko just recently, and while they aren't very popular, I suspect it is not so much because they sound bad, it is more because they look like grandma's jewelry. Though they DO sound bad according to some. I think it is using that same 14.xx driver that has fueled some very popular planar IEMs. Now of course they all say "custom 14.xx planar driver" but that really means nothing. Change anything about it and it can be called custom.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the headsup @WoodyLuvr ! I didn't even know 7Hz had a earbud released! Thanks for taking one for the team!



BTW, I know the current IEM planar hype in CHIFI-land for IEMs was started with the 7Hz Timeless, which I would rate at 3/5 (this may be an unpopular opinion). No doubt the Timeless is excellent technically, but the timbral accuracy is very off. Acoustic instruments sound plasticky. Lots of treble spikes and the soundstage has literally zero depth. The Timeless nevertheless was a kind of proof of concept that let the other companies latch on and push out their own planars. 

Some of the other 7Hz stuff were hit or miss too. The 7Hz Eternal was a fail, I would rank it 1.5/5. Vastly overpriced and sounds no better than a budget single DD. Haven't heard the Dioko, but the Salnotes Zero (sister company of 7Hz) is quite decent for $20 USD (and is being hyped to the moon), though it ain't a giant killer. They are even trying to muscle in on the dongle DAC/amp pie with the release of the 71 Mobile DAC, but I didn't know they had earbuds!

Anyway speaking about planars, this year is literally the year where CHIFI companies have a FOMO (fear of missing out) on planars. Moondrop, DUNU, Shuoer, Kinera (seems Kinera's one may not be a true planar), Rapto Hook, TRI, TinHIFI et al are all pushing out planars and riding on this train.

I think some of our DIY friends are trying to develop a planar earbud, so here's hoping to their success!!! Planars are no doubt an exotic drivers compared to the run-of-the-mill BAs and DDs, and audiophiles are always itching to try new toys and gear, but planar earbuds are truly ambitious. If one can pull it off, that will be amazing and a game-changer!


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> I'm pretty busy with work this week, but just wanted to revisit this M4 damper thing. I did a reflective scan of the type 3 damper so it would more closely match what the installed stock damper looks like. While it is not an exact match between the two, the mesh sizing is more visible and looks quite close. Still waiting for Smabat's reply to my email about the tuning dampers.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: M4 stock damper type 3 redux


It does look (to me in this picture) that the hole sizing is a bit different, though it IS indeed much clearer. Of course, like you say, it might appear different because of (potential) zoom differences??? Anyhow thanks for taking the time to redo it. And I also eagerly await a reply from Smabat on the matter. Have a great week at work bro!


----------



## samandhi (Sep 26, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> BTW, I know the current IEM planar hype in CHIFI-land for IEMs was started with the 7Hz Timeless, which I would rate at 3/5 (this may be an unpopular opinion). No doubt the Timeless is excellent technically, but the timbral accuracy is very off. Acoustic instruments sound plasticky. Lots of treble spikes and the soundstage has literally zero depth. The Timeless nevertheless was a kind of proof of concept that let the other companies latch on and push out their own planars.


I would say that you are right on the money IMO, and I was also not very popular in the 7Hz thread for saying so (in the beginning). The Timeless never was able to bring down the grand daddy of planar IEMs anyhow (Tinhifi P1). The Hook-X (to me) is the first in this new wave that are actually really good IMO.


baskingshark said:


> Anyway speaking about planars, this year is literally the year where CHIFI companies have a FOMO (fear of missing out) on planars. Moondrop, DUNU, Shuoer, Kinera (seems Kinera's one may not be a true planar), Rapto Hook, TRI, TinHIFI et al are all pushing out planars and riding on this train.


Oh, don't forget about CCA. Yep, they have one out too.  And poor Tinhifi, they have not been able to match their own success since the OG P1 came out, though the P1 Max are (from what I have read) much better than the P1 Plus, and the P2. So a step (back) in the right direction... LOL


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> It does look (to me in this picture) that the hole sizing is a bit different, though it IS indeed much clearer. Of course, like you say, it might appear different because of (potential) zoom differences??? Anyhow thanks for taking the time to redo it. And I also eagerly await a reply from Smabat on the matter. Have a great week at work bro!


They were both scanned on my flatbed scanner at the same resolution. The difference is the damper from the kit was absolutely flat on the glass, while the M4 bud may not have been perfectly flat on the glass due to the spring loaded pins. I do note that the mesh thickness between the 2 are different. The damper from the kit has a thicker looking mesh while the M4 stock damper has a thinner looking mesh. The open areas of the mesh could be different due to this difference in mesh thickness. So it could very well be that Smabat named the damper in the kit as type 3, but it could be they misnamed it and it's actually the type 4. They should have had a damper kit with all 4 types of damper. That's a big mistake on their part, IMO.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> That's a big mistake on their part, IMO.


Agreed!


----------



## ttorbic

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for the headsup @WoodyLuvr ! I didn't even know 7Hz had a earbud released! Thanks for taking one for the team!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree that planar earbuds would be game-changing! I'd guess that the biggest challenge is getting the timbre right - I find planar IEMs to have a less natural timbre than DD IEMs and earbuds. I thought the timbre was ok on planar HP (Sundara), so I'm not sure what is causing the drop in timbre quality between IEM and HPs. Obviously there are a myriad of factors that can contribute to this, so I hope DIYers can find a solution


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 26, 2022)

Danneq said:


> When I started coming to Head fi there was only Yuin PK earbuds if you wanted earbuds. Audio Techica had the CM series but those were hard to come by. Then slowly smaller earbud makers like Blox started releasing earbuds. Then Sennheiser released MX980 and MX985. Later Chinese makers started to release more and more earbuds. Still a small market but a lot more options nowadays.




Yeah, the ole' rabbit hole as you knew it has become much, much deeper and extremely complicated...

*After a little way the rabbit hole suddenly went down, deep into the ground. Alice could not stop herself falling, and down she went, too. It was a very strange hole. Alice was falling very slowly, and she had time to think and to look around her. She could see nothing below her because it was so dark. But when she looked at the sides of the hole, she could see cupboards and books and pictures on the walls. She had time to take things out of a cupboard, look at them, and then put them back in a cupboard lower down. “Well!” thought Alice. “After a fall like this, I can fall anywhere! I can fall downstairs at home, and I won’t cry or say a word about it!” Down, down, down. “How far have I fallen now?” Alice said aloud to herself. “Perhaps I’m near the centre of the earth. Let me think … That’s four thousand miles down.” (Alice was very good at her school lessons and could remember a lot of things like this.) Down, down, down. Would she ever stop falling? Alice was very nearly asleep when, suddenly, she was sitting on the ground.*​
And most unfortunately we all have become a little madder in the process ... we are all absolute lunatics now!

*“But I don’t want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked.*​*“Oh, you can’t help that,” said the Cat: “we’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad.”*​*“How do you know I’m mad?” said Alice.*​_*“You must be,” said the Cat, “or you wouldn’t have come here.”*_​


----------



## Into The Light5

Hi, has anyone tried this before? One review said it is good im tempted, chitty store sells those









https://a.aliexpress.com/_msEwiLe


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Oh, and you were right... This is one of those "multi-listen" albums. There is no way to get it all in one take.



It most certainly is! And I should have put the Indy thing together from past comments. I was interested in the possible Notre Dame connection because I almost went there instead of UC Berkeley because of how much I liked the area and the school itself so I was curious.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> I’m still puzzled why sources sound different. Reviewing Shanling UP4 at the moment, and I feel like a fraud for saying that Andromeda sounds richer and more impactful on UP4 comparing to Apple dongle. I mean it’s Andromeda. It requires only peanut in power output to make sound.



Some times it can be as simple as the way different drivers react to various increases in current, power, or amplification. Different DACs have different filters applied by the chips' manufacturers and then by the device manufacturer implementing the chip and sometimes even DSP/post-signal processing. Then of course you can have even more processing done at the firmware and software levels, NOS/OS modes, so on and so forth.

People that insist that all sources sound the same often oversimplify. If you look into it yourself you can see that there are many reasons for sonic variations between sources. Even just visiting the websites of DAC chip and op amp manufacturers will show you that those manufacturers actively develop various technologies included in their hardware in the form of various signal processing techniques and filters that are explicitly meant to provide a specific sound. A good example of this would be AKM's Velvet Sound technology or Muses signal stabilizing envelope filters.

I'm not saying these things make huge differences as the differences cans be quite subtle, but they're noticeable with gear that is sufficiently revealing. I think too many people assume that if they can't hear a difference then the difference doesn't exist. And let's face it, disgruntled customers are often more vocal that happy ones so when someone buys a new expensive DAC combo and doesn't hear the changes they were expecting then they tend to be the people loudly proclaiming the snake oil line.

I also think a big part is played by the fact that hyperbolic descriptions of very subtle differences by reviewers/content creators and even unintentionally put out there by folks on forums and subreddits. People new to the hobby that don't know what to expect read reviews and posts describing all the amazing performance differences between two products which is sometimes just a reviewer's way of making a very small difference sound more exciting and they go into a purchase with unrealistically high expectations.

Another factor I have believe I have observed myself is when people new to the hobby don't understand that a 5% difference is likely a bigger deal to a dedicated audiophile pushing for uncompromising performance than it is to a guy just looking for something better than Beats or even just your average music  lover and headphone user. People fail to take differences in perspective into account all the time.

Sorry for the essay. I'm also sure there are tons of other reasons I haven't even begun to contemplate or have left out. I'd also like to note that I don't think everyone can hear the differences whether because of differences in hearing, gear that doesn't reveal those differences, etc so many of the people saying all sources sound the same are likely people whose personal experience tells them that that's true and fail to consider that their personal experience may not be universally applicable.


----------



## BCool

Into The Light5 said:


> Hi, has anyone tried this before? One review said it is good im tempted, chitty store sells those
> 
> 
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_msEwiLe


 Not quite the same but @ClieOS used that shell to build a planar earbud here.


----------



## weexisttocease

New earbuds from K's.

https://hifigo.com/blogs/news/intro...earbuds-with-titanium-alloy-acoustic-cavities


----------



## JAnonymous5150

weexisttocease said:


> New earbuds from K's.
> 
> https://hifigo.com/blogs/news/intro...earbuds-with-titanium-alloy-acoustic-cavities



How have the Pislos been treatin' you? Still the best thing since sliced bread? 😉 I can't wait to try friend's set in October when I go for a short visit. BTW, have you tried them with any sources aside from the DAC/Dongle they come with? If so how'd it go?

Those new bud's from K's are awfully good looking. Then again, K's has plenty of history making good looking buds. Have you, or anybody else, heard anything about their sound sig and performance?


----------



## BCool (Sep 26, 2022)

Odd question, but I ordered one of those lucky bags from Aliexpress and got a Faaeal earbud that seems to have been discontinued as I can't find them anywhere. They're metallic blue with a fabric sheathed cable, non-twisted, does anyone know what model they are?

It cost £3 shipped so I won't be too beat up if they're nothing special.

Edit: it looks like the Snow Lotus 1.0, except the Y-split is metal instead of rubber.

Further Edit:
I've listened to a few songs on these now and they're pretty good. More neutral than my usual preference but even though there's clearly not much bass, it doesn't feel like it's missing. It's handled the electronic music I've been playing surprisingly well, just enough bass for cerain sounds not to sound flat, claps and similar sounds are much more forward (I'm guessing mids? I'm kind of a noob when it comes to describing sound) and quite crisp, good instrument separation and quite a good soundstage.
All-in-all quite a good value purchase that I don't regret at all, even if I'm not sure how much time they'll get in my ears. I have a feeling they'll do well for gaming so I'll give them a test tomorrow.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> It most certainly is! And I should have put the Indy thing together from past comments. I was interested in the possible Notre Dame connection because I almost went there instead of UC Berkeley because of how much I liked the area and the school itself so I was curious.


OIC. What made you change your mind and go to UC Berkeley?


JAnonymous5150 said:


> Some times it can be as simple as the way different drivers react to various increases in current, power, or amplification. Different DACs have different filters applied by the chips' manufacturers and then by the device manufacturer implementing the chip and sometimes even DSP/post-signal processing. Then of course you can have even more processing done at the firmware and software levels, NOS/OS modes, so on and so forth.
> 
> People that insist that all sources sound the same often oversimplify. If you look into it yourself you can see that there are many reasons for sonic variations between sources. Even just visiting the websites of DAC chip and op amp manufacturers will show you that those manufacturers actively develop various technologies included in their hardware in the form of various signal processing techniques and filters that are explicitly meant to provide a specific sound. A good example of this would be AKM's Velvet Sound technology or Muses signal stabilizing envelope filters.
> 
> ...


Also, don't forget about different algorithms for different apps that make the music player itself sound different, even on the same device. This can happen even on bit perfect players. For instance, Neutron does indeed sound different than UAPP, from Hiby, from Mango, from FiiO app, etc... And believe it or not, the DAC in the DAP does indeed influence the sound.

Another example is the programming and features of the app itself, or DSP. A bit perfect app can still have DSP. For instance, most digital files have SOME sort of distortion included in the file. One of the most common is quantization errors. Neutron has a feature that is called "dither" that can add noise to reduce noise (meaning that it puts this noise in a FR that human ears can't hear), while still remaining true to the source of the material. This may seem small, but it is these little things that create the differences in sound you might hear from source to source. There are a TON more things that will create differences in sound per app, per device...

And I have to agree with all that you have said (and said well, I might add). The problem is (especially in print/text) it would take a reviewer a WHOLE lot more writing to explain what you just did (and more) every time they are describing the differences they are hearing between sound systems, and etc... for the sake of someone new that doesn't understand that to them big difference is 5% (for instance).


----------



## samandhi

Speaking of DAPs, I got a new one today (for my wife). It is this one. Well, it IS an off brand Chinese maker in that the OS is very generic, the volume button (while looking nice and IS functional) is very loose and screams cheap, though the player itself is all metal w/glass front. It is totally touch screen (which is one thing my wife HAD to have), with buttons also, and it seems really sturdy. I was actually shocked at how fast it is, and how quickly it scanned a 512GB card (17K songs). I can tell you it was under 10 minutes. 

The good news is that it plays DSD, flac, all the good stuff, and I have to say it does it really well with the FF3. No, it isn't near as refined as my DX300 or even the DX160 in sound quality, but it does NOT sound wonky at all. I think she will enjoy it (we'll see).

She didn't like the Shanling M0 I bought her at all (I guess it belongs to me now lol). While she liked the size of it overall, the OS is too difficult to navigate easily (like her beloved iPod Nano was). Good news is I get to try some of the budget stuff and see if there are any "gems" out there for roughly $100...  

_Today was a good day - Ice Cube_


----------



## weexisttocease

JAnonymous5150 said:


> How have the Pislos been treatin' you? Still the best thing since sliced bread? 😉 I can't wait to try friend's set in October when I go for a short visit. BTW, have you tried them with any sources aside from the DAC/Dongle they come with? If so how'd it go?
> 
> Those new bud's from K's are awfully good looking. Then again, K's has plenty of history making good looking buds. Have you, or anybody else, heard anything about their sound sig and performance?


It has been treating me well. Thanks for asking. Unfortunately, I just hadn't the needed time to listen to them properly.

I'm glad you will be able to try the PXVV. They just sound great to my ears. It has that warm tube characteristic sound but still very natural and transparent. It's phenomenal for vocals and for those who listen to a lot of classical and jazz could be a great match. Pislo fine tuned the dongle for the PXVV, so it has great synergy. I also use very often the DTR1+ for more deep and controlled bass. Not tried yet the DX320 and the Mojo.

I just got aware of the new K's earbud today since I received a notification from HiFiGo. They look awesome. Looking forward for further details and sound signature too.

Anyway, did you heard the Simphonio Dragon D3+?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> OIC. What made you change your mind and go to UC Berkeley?



They gave me a more inclusive partial scholarship than what ND offered and proximity to recording studios in Oakland and San Francisco where I was much more likely to pick up session work so I wouldn't have to get a "real" job to pay for the remainder of my costs. It worked out perfectly and I'm glad I went to Cal.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

weexisttocease said:


> It has been treating me well. Thanks for asking. Unfortunately, I just hadn't the needed time to listen to them properly.
> 
> I'm glad you will be able to try the PXVV. They just sound great to my ears. It has that warm tube characteristic sound but still very natural and transparent. It's phenomenal for vocals and for those who listen to a lot of classical and jazz could be a great match. Pislo fine tuned the dongle for the PXVV, so it has great synergy. I also use very often the DTR1+ for more deep and controlled bass. Not tried yet the DX320 and the Mojo.
> 
> ...



I'm glad you're still diggin' the PXVVs!

I have the Dragon 3s and will probably grab the 3+ eventually, but I just got some new buds delivered from Cypherus and I've also got a whole new over ear setup so all that combined with my much busier schedule these days has me just looking to enjoy what I've got and put off getting anything new to when I have more time to actually enjoy it.

I saw the same HifiGo email you saw lol!


----------



## Ronion (Sep 27, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Little brother you are honestly* tilting at windmills* here. He meant no offense at all and apologized to you. Where or how was he coming from a point of ignorance? The only ignorance happening here is your unwillingness to accept his clarification and apology. It is clear to everyone else that it was a conversational exchange... a light-handed remark of encouragement and not meant as a slight, especially after he explained himself. As The Joker would say: "way so serious?"
> 
> Please reflect for a moment and consider that you might have simply been too defensive... mistook his reply, taking it too literally and in the completely wrong way as intended. *@Danneq* has been a very respectful and kind-hearted chap in all his posts I have seen over many years I doubt he meant any ill-will or disrespect nor does he have a hidden agenda. His wife is Japanese, he knows the culture well. He was only saying that like Swedes, Japanese do not expect their statements to be spin-doctored and/or nefarious hidden meanings to be found within them (no reading between the lines with them). You surely had to experience that in your time in land of the rising sun, yes? I did/do.
> 
> ...


The internet definitely has a tone issue.  For instance “Little brother” comes across as condescending under these circumstances.  It would be like me saying “You silly old man, his ignorance was that he thought I didn’t know enough to sell earbuds and exposed his ignorance by voicing it”.  The “Tilting at windmills” is what firmly plants it there.  I have demonstrated that I know at least enough and have honed my skills many times in this thread.   That’s why you PM me for advice on such matters and once in this thread isn’t it?  Of course I didn’t know people would pay $600+ for an MX500 earbud.  Now it’s got me thinking 🤔 (kidding).  I’m happy occasionally chiming in helping others who aren’t in it for the money get better at building buds.  Our @RikudouGoku isnt charging enough to make it worth my time and I respect him for that. 

Also, I try not to speak for a whole culture.  It’s not a thing Americans do (obviously a joke).  In all honesty, I’ve had any number of things happen to me in many countries and I haven’t known the Swedes or the Japanese to speak out in ignorance more than any other culture.  If anything, I’ve had the opposite experience, but I am chalking this up to a cultural misunderstanding as it’s withing the realm of possibility and he is claiming it to be such in ways that still read underhanded. 


WoodyLuvr said:


> Oh, I think you put it in much better words than I did: "*Better ingredients*, better pizza". I really like that analogy, very fitting.


maybe you should ask me what that is in a PM?   Just messing with you old man.


Danneq said:


> Yeah, I hate things like this as well. A small general comment being blown up to gigantic proportions like it was a slap to someones face. Since I have not heard any of your earbuds my comment has no relation whatsoever to them. It was just a general comment. You seem intent to misunderstand and become insulted.


I don’t see where it’s been blown out of proportion.  In truth, you can just read the graphs and the drivers.  You know the shell….  You can speak from a stance of knowing about my skills.  I’ve put all the information you need right here to at least start an intelligent conversation freely.  That was an option you had and still have.  If you try real hard you can probably learn enough to do it.  I believe in you.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> They gave me a more inclusive partial scholarship than what ND offered and proximity to recording studios in Oakland and San Francisco where I was much more likely to pick up session work so I wouldn't have to get a "real" job to pay for the remainder of my costs. It worked out perfectly and I'm glad I went to Cal.


Oh, that is for sure a great reason. While South Bend is a neat(ish) place, there isn't much there. That is why I was so surprised to hear a band such as Umphrey's Mcgee coming out of there. 

Which I really like BTW. I bought their newest album from Bandcamp and it is really good also (just plain awedome on the FF3 BTW):


----------



## baskingshark

For folks who wanna buy the Smabat M4 or their drivers, maybe hold your horses.

They are having a sale in a few days time, on 2nd October: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100063718818578







M4 and M4 drivers purportedly 40% off.



I have no horse in this race, haven't bought any Smabat gear since the disappointment of the ST 20 pro, so will be giving this M4 set a miss (but the M4 discussion seems quite hot here, so for those interested!). Currently, am extremely happy with the DIY LCP buds made by @FranQL (thanks once again bro) , using it daily now with the RW2000 sometimes.


----------



## samandhi (Sep 27, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> For folks who wanna buy the Smabat M4 or their drivers, maybe hold your horses.
> 
> They are having a sale in a few days time, on 2nd October: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100063718818578
> 
> ...


Yep. I believe it is every first Tuesday of the month IIRC. Good call sir!

Edit: Wait, they said on FB before it was every first Tuesday of the month. I just realized that the 2nd is on a Sunday... Ineresting.


----------



## Ronion

baskingshark said:


> For folks who wanna buy the Smabat M4 or their drivers, maybe hold your horses.
> 
> They are having a sale in a few days time, on 2nd October: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100063718818578
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, the same thing happened to me.  The Ice Pick cracked my dome.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Oh, that is for sure a great reason. While South Bend is a neat(ish) place, there isn't much there. That is why I was so surprised to hear a band such as Umphrey's Mcgee coming out of there.
> 
> Which I really like BTW. I bought their newest album from Bandcamp and it is really good also (just plain awedome on the FF3 BTW):




I was surprised when I stayed at ND for a week just how cool the college music scene was there. It was almost enough to sway me, but even what was left to pay after the partial they offered me was way more than what I had to pay at Cal (which was just room and board, my tuition was covered). Add to that the whole Bay Area music scene and being able to work my way through doing session work and I just couldn't justify it.

I'm so stoked that you're diggin' UM! My DCA Expanse showed up at 8:15 tonight so I haven't had a chance to try their stuff on the FF3s as I had planned, but it's good to know I was right about it being a good fit. I actually have Anchor Drops Redux on the playlist I'm listening to on the Expanse right now.


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I was surprised when I stayed at ND for a week just how cool the college music scene was there. It was almost enough to sway me, but even what was left to pay after the partial they offered me was way more than what I had to pay at Cal (which was just room and board, my tuition was covered). Add to that the whole Bay Area music scene and being able to work my way through doing session work and I just couldn't justify it.
> 
> I'm so stoked that you're diggin' UM! My DCA Expanse showed up at 8:15 tonight so I haven't had a chance to try their stuff on the FF3s as I had planned, but it's good to know I was right about it being a good fit. I actually have Anchor Drops Redux on the playlist I'm listening to on the Expanse right now.


I’ve got to play and record in some of those studios! Berkeley is a very cool place in general and has one of my favorite piano shops anywhere.  I’m a sucker for rare and rebuilt pianos when they’re are really well rebuilt.  I’m sure you, more than most, understand that phenomenon.  I need to head back up there.


----------



## Danneq (Sep 27, 2022)

Ronion said:


> I don’t see where it’s been blown out of proportion.  In truth, you can just read the graphs and the drivers.  You know the shell….  You can speak from a stance of knowing about my skills.  I’ve put all the information you need right here to at least start an intelligent conversation freely.  That was an option you had and still have.  If you try real hard you can probably learn enough to do it.  I believe in you.



I have not followed you at all. In the old days there used to be earbud DIY threads and people were adviced to keep DIY discussions there. Don't know if there still are any such threads, though.
Do people have to read all your comments before addressing you?

Why do I feel like I wound up in this old sketch?


----------



## samandhi (Sep 27, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I was surprised when I stayed at ND for a week just how cool the college music scene was there. It was almost enough to sway me, but even what was left to pay after the partial they offered me was way more than what I had to pay at Cal (which was just room and board, my tuition was covered). Add to that the whole Bay Area music scene and being able to work my way through doing session work and I just couldn't justify it.
> 
> I'm so stoked that you're diggin' UM! My DCA Expanse showed up at 8:15 tonight so I haven't had a chance to try their stuff on the FF3s as I had planned, but it's good to know I was right about it being a good fit. I actually have Anchor Drops Redux on the playlist I'm listening to on the Expanse right now.


You could have always done what Rudy did?! Go to St. Mary's (which was much cheaper)... LOL

Yeah the music scene was decent there, but there weren't any decent recording studios (besides garage) unless you went all the way to Indy.



Spoiler: off topic



Indy's Music House (which apparently has closed up shop now) is where my band got our first gig (like I mentioned before, was a lifetime ago; something like 30+ years ago). Two of our members were taking lessons there and they put together a (large for us) 200-400+ person concert where all the students would do something in a park nearby. I was so nervous I thought sure everyone would see my legs shaking and make fun of me... ROFL Of course I "whiffed" it for my first gig... LOL We did three of our original songs, and I pretty much choked on all of them (mostly). We had very little practice time together as a band before this event.

There was also some really good local scenes in Indy, and there were some regular bands that played there that even now are remembered by those that got to see them. Such as Schoolboy Crush (their OG CD is going for hundreds of dollars for collectors). They went on to make two more albums IIRC. Their subsequent album(s) were more mature. The drummer Rusty Scutt was a family friend and I met him through his dad that used to fish Lake Michigan with my dad...

Anyhow, not the greatest production, but not terrible for a shoestring budget either.

And they DID get better over the years as heard on this single from 2011(and after getting rid of the OG singer Rance Crane, who wasn't bad, just not the best):





It is simply put a fantastic album. It has pretty much everything going on, and I love it. I couldn't find Anchor Drops Redux to buy digitally (through my normal channels), so I just ordered the CD(s) from Amazon...  I guess they have like 11 albums. I think I would like to try the heavier one next (the one that your friend that rec'ced them mentioned in one of his posts). Either way, I will be listening to this over and over until I run out of head gear to test them on.... LOL

This is especially good on the FF3 (for instance) because of the amount of slam they have, which plays well with the drumming style seen here (which is also the type of rhythm that just gets my juices flowing, kinda' like old school anthem rock used to, or slower but meaty/heavy metal).

Congrats on your new shiny BTW!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Ronion said:


> The internet definitely has a tone issue.  For instance “Little brother” comes across as condescending under these circumstances.  It would be like me saying “You silly old man, his ignorance was that he thought I didn’t know enough to sell earbuds and exposed his ignorance by voicing it”.  The “Tilting at windmills” is what firmly plants it there.  I have demonstrated that I know at least enough and have honed my skills many times in this thread.   That’s why you PM me for advice on such matters and once in this thread isn’t it?  Of course I didn’t know people would pay $600+ for an MX500 earbud.  Now it’s got me thinking 🤔 (kidding).  I’m happy occasionally chiming in helping others who aren’t in it for the money get better at building buds.  Our @RikudouGoku isnt charging enough to make it worth my time and I respect him for that.
> 
> Also, I try not to speak for a whole culture.  It’s not a thing Americans do (obviously a joke).  In all honesty, I’ve had any number of things happen to me in many countries and I haven’t known the Swedes or the Japanese to speak out in ignorance more than any other culture.  If anything, I’ve had the opposite experience, but I am chalking this up to a cultural misunderstanding as it’s withing the realm of possibility and he is claiming it to be such in ways that still read underhanded.
> 
> ...


Well, it wasn't meant to be. It was given as an endearing salutation in hopes of reminding you that we are all brothers and sister here and not your enemies (thus the Don Quixote reference). You are much younger than I so thus the usage of "little"; not everything in life has to be taken as a negative connotation or slight. Yes, I am most likely more than twice your age, so yep I would be an old man to you. No foul there as I am indeed old as dirt! I do readily admit that I am probably "silly" too especially as I am still engaging with you at all about anything at this point as you fail to see the error of your ways (your recent odd and unpleasant behavior). You have become increasingly overly defensive and arrogant which really is getting the better of you... so does incessantly tooting one's own horn in every post. Pride is one thing but damn you are laying it on too thick now. Yes, we have indeed learned a great deal from you. And yes, we do sincerely appreciate your expertise which has been very informative but less and less helpful when given in such a high-handed manner. We totally get it, you are an acoustics genius and have all the books to prove it... have we now all become complete idiots in your eyes? Which would then beg the question why you even waste your time with the likes of us on this thread then? Food for thought.


----------



## samandhi (Sep 27, 2022)

Ronion said:


> I’ve got to play and record in some of those studios! Berkeley is a very cool place in general and has one of my favorite piano shops anywhere.  I’m a sucker for rare and rebuilt pianos when they’re are really well rebuilt.  I’m sure you, more than most, understand that phenomenon.  I need to head back up there.


Do you play?

Edit: NM, I guess I missed the part where you actually said you "got to play and record" .... Apologies.


----------



## FranQL

I'm simple, so I stick with the most basic things... €600 or more for a bud in MX500 shell???? LOL

ah, maybe since I'm ignorant I haven't taken into account the craftsmanship, the ancestral love, the magic, the wonderful mastery, the excellent training, the NASA divers, the artisan drivers (I'd like to see them, to believe it, the ones I've opened which are quite a few let's just say they weren't...how to say special), time (huff, this is important), R&D (laughing again, sorry), materials and sophisticated tools/equipment used), sound of the house, the cable (decisive), 400 hours of burning (fundamental), the name of the bud.... thinking about it, maybe they are even cheap.... a group of purchase?


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> I am indeed old as dirt!


Wait! I didn't know dirt got that old?!     

Sorry, just trying to lighten the mood a bit.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Jezz


----------



## Danneq

FranQL said:


> I'm simple, so I stick with the most basic things... €600 or more for a bud in MX500 shell???? LOL
> 
> ah, maybe since I'm ignorant I haven't taken into account the craftsmanship, the ancestral love, the magic, the wonderful mastery, the excellent training, the NASA divers, the artisan drivers (I'd like to see them, to believe it, the ones I've opened which are quite a few let's just say they weren't...how to say special), time (huff, this is important), R&D (laughing again, sorry), materials and sophisticated tools/equipment used), sound of the house, the cable (decisive), 400 hours of burning (fundamental), the name of the bud.... thinking about it, maybe they are even cheap.... a group of purchase?


If you are ever near Stockholm you are welcome to try the Red Dragon out. Looks can be deceiving. Like the old proverb: "don't judge an earbud by its shell".
But I do not think that anyone who wasn't already a fanboy of a brand would invest so much money...


----------



## samandhi (Sep 27, 2022)

Danneq said:


> If you are ever near Stockholm you are welcome to try the Red Dragon out. Looks can be deceiving. Like the old proverb: "don't judge an earbud by its shell".
> But I do not think that anyone who wasn't already a fanboy of a brand would invest so much money...


Yes but there is always this (for me):



Spoiler: FQL Grand Finale (150ohm Ti)


















Or:



Spoiler: FQL Blackhole Redux (40ohm LCP)


----------



## o0genesis0o

FranQL said:


> I'm simple, so I stick with the most basic things... €600 or more for a bud in MX500 shell???? LOL
> 
> ah, maybe since I'm ignorant I haven't taken into account the craftsmanship, the ancestral love, the magic, the wonderful mastery, the excellent training, the NASA divers, the artisan drivers (I'd like to see them, to believe it, the ones I've opened which are quite a few let's just say they weren't...how to say special), time (huff, this is important), R&D (laughing again, sorry), materials and sophisticated tools/equipment used), sound of the house, the cable (decisive), 400 hours of burning (fundamental), the name of the bud.... thinking about it, maybe they are even cheap.... a group of purchase?



At least Dunu makes their own drivers and have patents to prove it to justify the AUD $1300 for Zen Pro   

To think about it, all of us who make buds are at mercy of faceless manufacturers from somewhere in China who produce these great MX500 drivers. I wonder what drives their investment? Is there a massive market for Mx500 drivers in Asia? I think / assume / guess that new drivers are still being developed. Are DIY market that large to fuel the sector?


----------



## FranQL

Danneq said:


> If you are ever near Stockholm you are welcome to try the Red Dragon out. Looks can be deceiving. Like the old proverb: "don't judge an earbud by its shell".
> But I do not think that anyone who wasn't already a fanboy of a brand would invest so much money...


Don't worry, it was just a reflection from an ignorant point of view, nothing more. I have also bought expensive buds, nothing happens.


----------



## Danneq

samandhi said:


> Yes but there is always this (for me):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



FranQL makes his own earbuds? What happened here? When I last was active about 2 years ago hardly anyone on Head fi were making and selling their own earbuds. I suppose the pandemic did lead to one good thing...


----------



## samandhi

Danneq said:


> FranQL makes his own earbuds? What happened here? When I last was active about 2 years ago hardly anyone on Head fi were making and selling their own earbuds. I suppose the pandemic did lead to one good thing...


For my ears he makes the best... They are currently at the top of my "favorites" list. They are not for sale though.


----------



## Danneq

FranQL said:


> Don't worry, it was just a reflection from an ignorant point of view, nothing more. I have also bought expensive buds, nothing happens.


Not ignorant at all. The problem can be that something that looks good and professional can be not very good at all (looking at you, Celsus Gramo One and apparently also 7HZ Beatles). While something that looks pedestrian and plain can surprise. That was why I joined here over 12 years ago, to get some guidance and try to avoid "less good" earbuds. Especially if you pay $150+ or nowadays $250+ even a single impression from someone in a place like this can be valuable.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> At least Dunu makes their own drivers and have patents to prove it to justify the AUD $1300 for Zen Pro
> 
> To think about it, all of us who make buds are at mercy of faceless manufacturers from somewhere in China who produce these great MX500 drivers. I wonder what drives their investment? Is there a massive market for Mx500 drivers in Asia? I think / assume / guess that new drivers are still being developed. Are DIY market that large to fuel the sector?


I would be curious to see if they make their own driver for the Talos, since everyone seems to be using the (mostly) same 14.xx planar driver these days.

First, and I won't be able to explain all of this (if you didn't already know) in such a short way, but places in China (e.g. Shenzhen) don't have the same patent laws as they do most other places. Someone does the R&D and makes a driver (for instance), and anyone can use it as long as they change SOMETHING about it. This is one of the reasons you see the same (again, mostly) planar driver in all of these recent releases for IEMs (Timeless, S12, Hook-X, etc...) though they all claim "custom". Of course companies are going to take advantage of an "off the shelf" part so they don't have to spend (basically) ANY money on it. 

That is one reason you can do a search for something like this and find one JUST like it from hundreds of different manufacturers (but all from China), but with one little... something, different about it. 

Apologies if I didn't explain that well...


----------



## samandhi

Danneq said:


> Not ignorant at all. The problem can be that something that looks good and professional can be not very good at all (looking at you, Celsus Gramo One and apparently also 7HZ Beatles). While something that looks pedestrian and plain can surprise. That was why I joined here over 12 years ago, to get some guidance and try to avoid "less good" earbuds. Especially if you pay $150+ or nowadays $250+ even a single impression from someone in a place like this can be valuable.


This thread in particular has been invaluable in my journey in getting good earbuds. I only have a couple of DIY buds thus far. All the rest are store bought, but I am pretty happy with (most) all of them at this point.


----------



## FranQL

samandhi said:


> This thread in particular has been invaluable in my journey in getting good earbuds. I only have a couple of DIY buds thus far. All the rest are store bought, but I am pretty happy with (most) all of them at this point.



The DIY sound is excellent for my ears, obviously I make them to my liking and it's easier that way, the prefabricated sound of well-known brands has lights and shadows, but it's all part of the hobby, so if anyone manages to get the sound they like he likes it one way or another, and at the price he thinks is fair, he'll be fine.

However, the price that I mentioned seemed outrageous. That's all.


----------



## Danneq

FranQL said:


> However, the price that I mentioned seemed outrageous. That's all.



But peanuts compared to the price of TOTL IEM:s...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> You could have always done what Rudy did?! Go to St. Mary's (which was much cheaper)... LOL
> 
> Yeah the music scene was decent there, but there weren't any decent recording studios (besides garage) unless you went all the way to Indy.
> 
> ...





samandhi said:


> You could have always done what Rudy did?! Go to St. Mary's (which was much cheaper)... LOL
> 
> Yeah the music scene was decent there, but there weren't any decent recording studios (besides garage) unless you went all the way to Indy.
> 
> ...




I love the first gig story! The first gig I played was with a punk band I was in my freshman year of high school and it lasted about 20 minutes in the basement of a local punk venue before our lead singer decided to hang from a water pipe on the ceiling above the stage which promptly broke, shorted out amps and PA gear, and flooded a good bit of the basement with water lol! I still hear that story pretty frequently when I go home. It's funny how many people tell me they were there because I only remember like 20 or 30 people showing up! 🤣

I will check out the Schoolboy Crush stuff and get back to you. As for the FF3s with UM, it was precisely that low end presence and slam that I was thinking of when I said I thought they'd go well together. Qobuz has a lot of UM's studio and live albums for purchase/download or streaming if you're still looking. The heavier album dude was talking about in the other thread is called Similar Skin and it's definitely a good album to check out. He's totally right about how different they can sound from one album to the next while still being awesome.


----------



## samandhi

Danneq said:


> But peanuts compared to the price of TOTL IEM:s...


Yes, but still very high. I, for one would never purchase DIY for $600. On the other hand, I would not buy store bought earbuds for that much either. The most I have spent on a set is $400 (Maria II).


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> I’ve got to play and record in some of those studios! Berkeley is a very cool place in general and has one of my favorite piano shops anywhere.  I’m a sucker for rare and rebuilt pianos when they’re are really well rebuilt.  I’m sure you, more than most, understand that phenomenon.  I need to head back up there.



Berkeley is definitely one if those places you go to that seems like it's a world all it's own. Even in the bay area, which is a notoriously different place, Berkeley manages to stand out.

I was big into punk music in high school (still love it and listen a lot) and when I finally got to go up to Berkeley and watch shows and play at some of the legendary venues up there like Gilman Street where Operation Ivy, Rancid, Green Day, etc played I was so psyched!

As for recording studios, the Bay has a ton of really cool small, but historic and well known studios and I loved the time I spent up there. My band actually did a few sessions in SF for our last album and I loved being back there.


----------



## 4ceratops

Have a nice day everyone. I would like to ask if anyone else besides user JANOnymous5150 has experience with the 80ohm LCP version of NSC audio earbud. If so, I would be pleased if he would share his impressions. For better identification I am adding a link to Ali.

https://m.nl.aliexpress.com/item/10...u_2001941475688.0&gatewayAdapt=gloPc2nldMsite


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I love the first gig story! The first gig I played was with a punk band I was in my freshman year of high school and it lasted about 20 minutes in the basement of a local punk venue before our lead singer decided to hang from a water pipe on the ceiling above the stage which promptly broke, shorted out amps and PA gear, and flooded a good bit of the basement with water lol! I still hear that story pretty frequently when I go home. It's funny how many people tell me they were there because I only remember like 20 or 30 people showing up! 🤣
> 
> I will check out the Schoolboy Crush stuff and get back to you. As for the FF3s with UM, it was precisely that low end presence and slam that I was thinking of when I said I thought they'd go well together. Qobuz has a lot of UM's studio and live albums for purchase/download or streaming if you're still looking. The heavier album dude was talking about in the other thread is called Similar Skin and it's definitely a good album to check out. He's totally right about how different they can sound from one album to the next while still being awesome.


Thanks! 

Well, that was my first gig with my second band (late teens early 20's) and was a Dokken(esc) type of band mostly, but that one just stuck out to me more than any other occasion. I was in a band called Brutal Force (Fastway-alike) when I was in high school, and we practiced a TON, but only played one gig at the 4H fair (wonder if you can see how that just didn't go together??? haha). I guess it was just a bunch of buddies getting together to jam?! 

Oh, that sounds positively "Rush" like... IIRC they played in the basement of their high school (frequently) also... But I love the flooding thing.. Can't buy memories like that IMO. 

To be sure they DO have that slam down low, but when I want to listen to some good prog rock or something where the (analog) drums are featured in an album, I look for a set that can also be punchy with the snares (and on the same plane), and I also want all the cymbals to be on plane. Even though I was a singer, I listen more to the drums in those types of songs (though I find guitars and other instruments just as spell binding too). Bottom line is that I want to hear (equally) all parts of those drummy drums... 

Sweet! Ima' check out that one next. Thanks for providing the name of that one! I thought I was gonna' have to go back through some of his posts to find it again... LOL

Oh, and yeah, I think I heard bongos, and castanets in one song.... ROFL I almost mistook them for 311 in another song.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

P.S. I really hope everyone can just chill and wipe the slate clean. I'd hate for this to become a thread people including me avoid because of toxic nonsense and quibbling over how others spend their money. I'd like to think we are better than that as individuals, mature adults, and as a community of enthusiasts. I'm not taking sides and I'll be sure to check my own behavior for anything I may have done or be doing to contribute. I hope you guys have a good night (or day as the case may be) and I wish you all happy listening! 😎🤘


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> I would be curious to see if they make their own driver for the Talos, since everyone seems to be using the (mostly) same 14.xx planar driver these days.



I highly doubt that. I don’t even remember talos on Dunu product road map for this year. The stars of this year were supposed to be Vulkan and SA4, if I remember correctly. Now we have Talos and a new single DD unit called KIMA.

I think / guess / assume that all of these 14.xx planar drivers are from a manufacturer in Korea (don’t know where I read this, but the shock the that the drivers are not from Shenzhen stayed with me). I guess the “custom” part is like Fiio ordering custom BA drivers from Knowles.




JAnonymous5150 said:


> P.S. I really hope everyone can just chill and wipe the slate clean. I'd hate for this to become a thread people including me avoid because of toxic nonsense and quibbling over how others spend their money. I'd like to think we are better than that as individuals, mature adults, and as a community of enthusiasts. I'm not taking sides and I'll be sure to check my own behavior for anything I may have done or be doing to contribute. I hope you guys have a good night (or day as the case may be) and I wish you all happy listening! 😎🤘



Hope so  



Danneq said:


> But peanuts compared to the price of TOTL IEM:s...



To be fair, TOTL IEMs are (unnecessarily) intricate anyway (many drivers, complex cross over). I have a hard time justify TOTL price IEM for single DD like Final A8000 though.


----------



## Danneq (Sep 27, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Yes, but still very high. I, for one would never purchase DIY for $600. On the other hand, I would not buy store bought earbuds for that much either. The most I have spent on a set is $400 (Maria II).


Except for the Red Dragon, I have never paid over $300 for a pair of earbuds. I got the SWD2+ for $199 on Drop, the Chaconne was second hand (about 16 000 yen if I remember correctly). All of the vintage Sony and Aiwa earbuds were bought before the prices skyrocketed. I could pay €150-200 for a pair of E484 E282 back in 2011-12. Now it is 3-4 times as much for a pair. That's understandable since they are so rare, though. (Edit: just discovered that there is a pair of E484 on Ebay for $200, but I have seen them for much more in the last few years).
The Red Dragons are custom made and the only pair in existence, from a maker I know and trust completely when it comes to audio related stuff. I closed my eyes when I paypaled the money to the seller but once I received and listened to the Red Dragon any regrets about money was forgotten.


----------



## samandhi

Danneq said:


> Except for the Red Dragon, I have never paid over $300 for a pair of earbuds. I got the SWD2+ for $199 on Drop, the Chaconne was second hand (about 16 000 yen if I remember correctly). All of the vintage Sony and Aiwa earbuds were bought before the prices skyrocketed. I could pay €150-200 for a pair of E484 E282 back in 2011-12. Now it is 3-4 times as much for a pair. That's understandable since they are so rare, though. (Edit: just discovered that there is a pair of E484 on Ebay for $200, but I have seen them for much more in the last few years).
> The Red Dragons are custom made and the only pair in existence, from a maker I know and trust completely when it comes to audio related stuff. I closed my eyes when I paypaled the money to the seller but once I received and listened to the Red Dragon any regrets about money was forgotten.


$60 to $200 seems to be the sweet spot for me with buds, though as I mentioned, I paid $400 for the Maria II and $300 for the Chaconne. 

I WAS trying to procure some Ucotech ES P1 back when the pandemic was "full force", but they didn't seem to want to sell them to me and I finally gave up trying (which is actually what led me to the Chaconne). So I guess thanks are really in order to them in the end... LOL


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 27, 2022)

Danneq said:


> I have not followed you at all. In the old days there used to be earbud DIY threads and people were adviced to keep DIY discussions there. Don't know if there still are any such threads, though.
> Do people have to read all your comments before addressing you?
> 
> Why do I feel like I wound up in this old sketch?



Like I said before, the rabbit hole has grown deeper, darker, and madder! We are all mad hatters here now!

Yeah, ever since *@HungryPanda* passed away (RIP) and *@ClieOS* left (after having had about enough of us lunatics) a lot of the old earbud gang simply disappeared and the thread activity and content lowered significantly. The *DIY Earbuds* was just as quiet (still is) so some of that traffic spilled over to here which was quite welcome and refreshing at the time. But unfortunately it unintentionally brought over some rather unhealthy divisions regrading DIY trade secrets and a few losers (jerks) that were clearly stealing other people's hard work and creative ideas and banking off of them without a single bit of recognition or even thanks. Though I still don't agree on the ultra-secret response and stance that has been taken as I don't think any majority group should be judged and punished for the actions of the few (any minority no matter how rotten their actions may have been). I don't think that an already endangered medium (flathead earbuds) can survive in such an environment. We need to be pushing the technology envelope hard and with all we got even if it means sacrificing some pride and $$$.

In *@Ronion*'s defense I am truly beginning to wonder if the pandemic and his being a medical/healthcare professional has had an ill effect on him as he was not like this before. I remember having a lot of nice exchanges with him before. Perhaps due to being overworked and emotionally exhausted his judgement has become clouded; his attitude has darkened; and his patience severely shortened and now easily tested. If you read his earlier posts and replies they were all kindly, extremely informative, fun to read, and quite humble with not an ounce of ego in them.



samandhi said:


> Do you play?


He is a pianist and a skilled one at that. He kindly shared some SoundCloud pieces with us before that he was composing with/his niece. Gosh, I really miss that *@Ronion*. 


samandhi said:


> Wait! I didn't know dirt got that old?!
> 
> Sorry, just trying to lighten the mood a bit.


 All good, the mood is always light as I am ultra laidback. I am just not afraid to point out strange and odd behavior on a thread where we have always been straight-forward, down-to-earth, helpful to one another, and most especially not have to walk on egg shells... as in being able to freely offer, discuss, and politely argue varying opinions and perspectives without it becoming personal and/or taken completely out of context.

Though we did have that great "earbud ranking war" in the early days didn't we?! Oh my that was an utter crap show wasn't it *@Danneq*? I think poor* @ClieOS *was still suffering from wounds from that exchange when he finally got fed up with us and left us to our own devices back in June 2021.


o0genesis0o said:


> Jezz


Pizza!


samandhi said:


> For my ears he makes the best... They are currently at the top of my "favorites" list. They are not for sale though.


Concur *@FranQL *earbuds are exceptionally well-tuned! I would have no problem saying that he has golden ears and golden fingers. My wife stole one pair that he kindly gave to me (*@FranQL Eight Ball Red*) and has declared them her favorites even more so than the Turandot and Blur White Face which she also swiped from me. I truly love chatting with him about audio as his passion for exploring earbud tech is addictive! He is such a pleasant, generous, thoughtful, and kind-hearted guy... a real breath of fresh air in the hobby.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

WoodyLuvr said:


> Imagine then what you could build sober, under full light, at a proper DIY station, with a few *upgraded items*, and if you took your time! Heavenly lights would surely then shine down upon that creation!





Ronion said:


> What upgraded items are you referring to?





WoodyLuvr said:


> Oh, I think you put it in much better words than I did: "*Better ingredients*, better pizza". I really like that analogy, very fitting.





Ronion said:


> maybe you should ask me what that is in a PM?   Just messing with you old man.


Sorry you lost me there... I was simply saying that your "better ingredients" analogy was much better said (exactly what I meant to say) than my "upgraded items". I do hope you took my first post in friendly jest as if I made anything now in under ten minutes, drunk, with no lights I doubt they would look like earbuds at all let alone function properly!


----------



## Danneq (Sep 27, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Like I said before, the rabbit hole has grown deeper, darker, and madder! We are all mad hatters here now!
> 
> Yeah, ever since *@HungryPanda* passed away (RIP) and *@ClieOS* left (after having had about enough of us lunatics) a lot of the old earbud gang simply disappeared and the thread activity and content lowered significantly. The *DIY Earbuds* was just as quiet (still is) so some of that traffic spilled over to here which was quite welcome and refreshing at the time. But unfortunately it unintentionally brought over some rather unhealthy divisions regrading DIY trade secrets and a few losers (jerks) that were clearly stealing other people's hard work and creative ideas and banking off of them without a single bit of recognition or even thanks. Though I still don't agree on the ultra-secret response and stance that has been taken as I don't think any majority group should be judged and punished for the actions of the few (any minority no matter how rotten their actions may have been). I don't think that an already endangered medium (flathead earbuds) can survive in such an environment. We need to be pushing the technology envelope hard and with all we got even if it means sacrificing some pride and $$$.
> 
> ...



I do not want to speculate about other people here. Have not had any problems at all during 12 years (well, 10 if you exclude the last 2 or so years when I hardly even came to Head fi and didn't write in this thread).

The only names I remember clearly are yours and digititus. RikudouGoku had just joined before I drifted away and he made a big impression on me because of his enthusiasm from just having discovered earbuds. All the other old timers are gone. Probably happy with the gear they've got...

I have ClieOs old earbud ranking saved on my hard drive. Someone made a copy and posted it on Google docs and I downloaded it. But it is pretty old. The top bud on it is MX985, second is Blox TM7 (released in 2012!). All of those earbuds are almost vintage by now...
Edit: no 3 is Shozy BK, 4 is VE Zen 1, 5 is Rose Mojito. The list was last updated in October 2016.


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> All good, the mood is always light as I am ultra laidback. I am just not afraid to point out strange and odd behavior on a thread where we have always been straight-forward, down-to-earth, helpful to one another, and most especially not have to walk on egg shells... as in being able to freely offer, discuss, and politely argue varying opinions and perspectives without it becoming personal and/or taken completely out of context.


No worries from my end either, I just didn't want tempers to flare out of control (like sometimes they do when reading responses rather than hearing them)... It sort of happened with me the other day on another thread, and we both ended up clicking "ignore" to each other.   I regret it, but it is what it is I suppose.


WoodyLuvr said:


> Concur *@FranQL *earbuds are exceptionally well-tuned! I would have no problem saying that he has golden ears and golden fingers. My wife stole one pair that he kindly gave to me (*@FranQL Eight Ball Red*) and has declared them her favorites even more so than the Turandot and Blur White Face which she also swiped from me. I truly love chatting with him about audio as his passion for exploring earbud tech is addictive! He is such a pleasant, generous, thoughtful, and kind-hearted guy... a real breath of fresh air in the hobby.


At least you know your wife has really good taste!  Maybe in the future, when purchasing new buds, you should just let her listen to them first and decide whether they are worth testing further. She seems to have an affinity for good sound (it seems).

I agree with all that you have said here about @FranQL. He indeed is a wonderful person, and I would argue not just in this hobby, but in life also. 


Danneq said:


> I do not want to speculate about other people here. Have not had any problems at all during 12 years (well, 10 if you exclude the last 2 or so years when I hardly even came to Head fi and didn't write in this thread).
> 
> The only names I remember clearly are yours and digititus. RikudouGoku had just joined before I drifted away and he made a big impression on me because of his enthusiasm from just having discovered earbuds. All the other old timers are gone. Probably happy with the gear they've got...
> 
> ...


I must have come along (here) right after you exited, because @ RikudouGoku wasn't here long before I came over here (and for pretty much the same reasons).


----------



## Danneq

samandhi said:


> I must have come along (here) right after you exited, because @ RikudouGoku wasn't here long before I came over here (and for pretty much the same reasons).



Yeah, perhaps. You have been on Head fi for a long time and have a lot of posts. 
Except for perhaps 100 posts on other threads, I have only been on this thread all of these years.
I also used to spend a lot of time on the forums of Anythingbutipod. Too bad that place is gone now.

This place is great for info. I almost decided to buy the 7HZ Beatles and was close to add the Smabat S20pro to my "to buy" list but the impressions from you people here made me cross them from the list. However, I did buy a bunch of MMCX cables before I crossed them off the list. Well, I can always use them for future earbud purchases that use MMCX...


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Sep 27, 2022)

Danneq said:


> I do not want to speculate about other people here. Have not had any problems at all during 12 years (well, 10 if you exclude the last 2 or so years when I hardly even came to Head fi and didn't write in this thread).
> 
> The only names I remember clearly are yours and digititus. RikudouGoku had just joined before I drifted away and he made a big impression on me because of his enthusiasm from just having discovered earbuds. All the other old timers are gone. Probably happy with the gear they've got...
> 
> ...


For those that don't know what *@Danneq *and I are referring to here is the *great earbud ranking list*. This was originally posted at the front (first post) of this thread but it had to be removed when everyone went bananas and couldn't agree to disagree.


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> For those that don't know what *@Danneq *and I are referring to here is the *great earbud ranking list*. This was originally posted at the front (first post) of this thread but it had to be removed when everyone went bananas and couldn't agree to disagree.


I can see that as being a (potential) problem. Rarely do people agree on anything, let alone something as subjective as head gear. 

I remember making more than a few people angry on the Timeless thread simply because they thought they were the best thing they had ever heard, and even were talking about selling all of their other head gear, and not only did I not agree, but listed some of shortcomings that kept them from being giant killers (while still maintaining that they were still very good). 

The point is that people will defend their purchases to their dying breath (over exaggeration of course) regardless of rationality, or sometimes even facts. 

Don't get me wrong, I have been a tad guilty of this also, though usually on the forums I try and (at least appear to) keep an open mind about subjectivity. I don't always get it right, but most times I am forgiven anyhow. 

But thanks for sharing that, I don't think I was aware of that list.


----------



## samandhi

Danneq said:


> I did buy a bunch of MMCX cables before I crossed them off the list. Well, I can always use them for future earbud purchases that use MMCX...


With the way things are going, I am not even sure you need those for future purchases or not (depending on the buds you purchase of course) because the cables that have started coming with the buds as stock are pretty top notch nowadays. 

But I get it, and those backups are always great to have (I wish I had a few more really good ones to have as fallbacks).


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> The point is that people will defend their purchases to their dying breath (over exaggeration of course) regardless of rationality, or sometimes even facts.



Now, imagine it’s not just your purchase decision on the line, but your whole music taste and experience and tuning skill (with DIY stuffs)   

I have read on this thread recently that a DIYer can custom tune earbuds to individual listener’s taste. I can’t even fathom their skill. I’m struggling to reach the sound that I like, and from testing with colleagues, I am pretty sure that even when I reach there, my buds would not work for them. At the same time, I don’t think my signature works with folks like Crinacle and his fans either. Being able to hit different targets so nicely that delights listeners is a skill that should be rewarded.


----------



## Danneq

WoodyLuvr said:


> For those that don't know what *@Danneq *and I are referring to here is the *great earbud ranking list*. This was originally posted at the front (first post) of this thread but it had to be removed when everyone went bananas and couldn't agree to disagree.


I managed to download the version with ClieOS' comments on each earbud. I remember he removed that after people gave him a hard time about it ("I don't think the x earbuds sound warm!!!")


----------



## chinmie

dang.. i haven't checked this thread for a few days


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> I have read on this thread recently that a DIYer can custom tune earbuds to individual listener’s taste.


I worked quite a bit with @FranQL so that he could figure out how to tune the ones he made for me, and I can say that he nailed it and tuned them exactly like I wanted them for the music I wanted to use them for. You are right, that takes talent/skill for sure.

Edit: Or rather, he worked with me...


----------



## Ronion

Danneq said:


> I have not followed you at all. In the old days there used to be earbud DIY threads and people were adviced to keep DIY discussions there. Don't know if there still are any such threads, though.
> Do people have to read all your comments before addressing you?
> 
> Why do I feel like I wound up in this old sketch?



No, but people would be wise to know what their talking about before speaking.


----------



## Danneq

Ronion said:


> No, but people would be wise to know what their talking about before speaking.



Point taken. Before I interact with anyone here I read all of their posts in this thread and create a complete profile that can be cross referenced with their activity on other Head fi threads and other forums.

It used to be a lot simpler here. And it was mainly in the sound science forum that there were arguments.


----------



## fogside (Sep 28, 2022)

Trn emx -
Fiio in trn's skin or the story that once a year and a b-brand shoots up.
Since their appearance at ali emh have attracted my attention with their great design and overall idea, conquered by the democratic price, introduced a share of doubts about the reputation of the manufacturer and the mediocre debut of the emh model.While flying and driving the most popular thought was - how long will I sell them)) The fuel to the fire of doubt added reviews on the head-fi, which then did not sit, then tinkle, no body, no bass ...
So the coveted box was taken in the delivery department and unpacking pleasantly surprised - the presence of instructions (so that in false phase not included people like me), excellent thick suede bag for headphones, soft and lightweight cable with changeable plugs, The headphones themselves executed qualitatively and accurately, ear cushions included catastrophically little (4 pcs) are dense and thin on the driver, as a gift threw a pair of ear cushions for large-sized ear plugs why the mystery. ..
Let's start with the fit - in my ears they are placed in a perfect behind-the-ear way - tight without shifts with good adherence to the canal, what actually level out the main drawback of earmolds - shift in the ear when moving; the right step was to make the transition to the sound chamber from the driver long enough.Pressure to the ear brings no usual bonuses since the fit is tight.
The sound is universal and without peaks - bass is tight as a sub as well as a midrange. No humming, attacks are fast, fades have body and volume (this is the third shells with good bass from those that I have heard - go in close company with fio EM5 and yinman600), the emphasis is on the middle, but to call them midcentrics language can not turn because the other ranges are not cut and are not unprofitable; The positioning is as if you are standing on the stage and Dolores O'Dorian (now playing Cranberries) sings into your ear, the width of the stage is average, but the depth and positioning of the stage in depth is really good. I have no complaints about the separation of instruments and detail, but in my opinion it is difficult to make headphones with beryllium dusting, which will not have a good bass and resolution.)
optimal for them will be a dark source with good power - on the other impressions may differ  for example on the aune m1 they do not sound as amazing as the cayin n3pro.recommend to anyone who loves soulful vocals, guitars in the face, drive and immersion into your favorite songs! And yes,in the end,they are tight - that is, there is not 45ohm 120db, and 45om 105db as in the fio ff3, but consumers will be superfluous to know that the drivers are the same - so you'll stop buying expensive headphones, so 120db and lose your way in the guesses where so 14.2mm berillium)))


----------



## Ronion

WoodyLuvr said:


> Well, it wasn't meant to be. It was given as an endearing salutation in hopes of reminding you that we are all brothers and sister here and not your enemies (thus the Don Quixote reference). You are much younger than I so thus the usage of "little"; not everything in life has to be taken as a negative connotation or slight. Yes, I am most likely more than twice your age, so yep I would be an old man to you. No foul there as I am indeed old as dirt! I do readily admit that I am probably "silly" too especially as I am still engaging with you at all about anything at this point as you fail to see the error of your ways (your recent odd and unpleasant behavior). You have become increasingly overly defensive and arrogant which really is getting the better of you... so does incessantly tooting one's own horn in every post. Pride is one thing but damn you are laying it on too thick now. Yes, we have indeed learned a great deal from you. And yes, we do sincerely appreciate your expertise which has been very informative but less and less helpful when given in such a high-handed manner. We totally get it, you are an acoustics genius and have all the books to prove it... have we now all become complete idiots in your eyes? Which would then beg the question why you even waste your time with the likes of us on this thread then? Food for thought.


I think you just got a taste of your own medicine.  If it doesn’t taste pleasant, you should take a minute to reflect and you could show your age by acting wise now.  You chose not to.  We can go at this forever and statistically speaking…. Anyway, I’m not the one who got it going or butted in when it didn’t involve me.  If you behave respectfully, so do I.  If I don’t and what I said came off wrong, I immediately apologize.  That’s what wisdom gives you.  You can probably get there too.  You just have to work on it.

I’ve literally only had issues with 2 people in this thread.  You twice and @Danneq once.  First time with you was the same as the second.  You condescend and then say you are just playing nice.  Danneq did the same and perhaps “birds Of a feather” is true.  It’s your pattern.  You are the only 2 that do it and I don’t take kindly to it.  You do seem like an idiot in my eyes.  Not because of your lack of knowledge on acoustics or psychoacoustics, it’s your lack of tact and decency that I don’t respect.  This is exactly why I haven’t given you my ‘secrets’.  

I’m sure none of this would happen if it was in person is the saddest part about it—and the internet in general.  You’re not a horrible human or anything in the grand scheme of this.  We all have our flaws.  just don’t expect to punish me with impunity if you haven’t gotten that yet.


----------



## Ronion

Danneq said:


> Point taken. Before I interact with anyone here I read all of their posts in this thread and create a complete profile that can be cross referenced with their activity on other Head fi threads and other forums.
> 
> It used to be a lot simpler here. And it was mainly in the sound science forum that there were arguments.


Aw, did you get hurt.  Get out of here with that.  If you had treated me with respect from the start, nothing like this would have happened.  Just respect people first.


----------



## WoodyLuvr




----------



## Danneq

Ronion said:


> Aw, did you get hurt.  Get out of here with that.  If you had treated me with respect from the start, nothing like this would have happened.  Just respect people first.



Nah. I just do not expect people to have knowledge of my activity on Head fi. Didn't even expect that back when I was more active. That's why I repeat myself all the time.

I said I was sorry for the way that comment was phrased. But it was not ill intentioned. It was just a passing comment.

You seriously expect people to know your post history here on Head fi before they adress you? Because that is how you act.

I have just briefly seen your name here since I returned. I don't read all posts and mainly look for ones that are about earbuds I'm interested in.
You did help me save money by crossing Smabat S20pro off my list, so I thank you for that.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

*"Ah, but that's the point!* *If you don't think, you shouldn't talk!" said the March Hare - Alice in Wonderland

@Danneq *See... I told you that we were batshit crazy here now! Mad hatters all or... is that March Hares all?

Now I am off to break my tea cups like a petulant 12-year old idiot!


----------



## Setmagic (Sep 27, 2022)

This conversation would be a lot better without fake accounts and hypers...
Even @WoodyLuvr and @Ronion will not have fuel to discussion.

PS 1. @FranQL buds are the best!
PS 2. DIY means Do It Yourself, not "hey I done it for myself to earn money"
PS 3. DIY Workroom


----------



## BCool

BCool said:


> Odd question, but I ordered one of those lucky bags from Aliexpress and got a Faaeal earbud that seems to have been discontinued as I can't find them anywhere. They're metallic blue with a fabric sheathed cable, non-twisted, does anyone know what model they are?
> 
> It cost £3 shipped so I won't be too beat up if they're nothing special.
> 
> ...


After some sleuthing on google, I'm 90% sure the buds I've got are the Snow Lotus 1.0+ (non-CE).



Spoiler: PIC


----------



## SolaVirtus

BCool said:


> After some sleuthing on google, I'm 90% sure the buds I've got are the Snow Lotus 1.0+ (non-CE).
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: PIC


That's what my snow lotus 1.0+ looks like. The mic and button piece looks metallic and Y split is black rubbery material. 90° angled 3.5mm TRRS terminated.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

BCool said:


> After some sleuthing on google, I'm 90% sure the buds I've got are the Snow Lotus 1.0+ (non-CE).
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: PIC



If you have a pic I can tell you if they look like the SL 1.0s. I have become pretty familiar with FAAEAL's lineup and the various permutations of the SL and Iris in particular from when I was buying them myself. 

FWIW, I really dig the SL lineup and I paid more for mine than you did for the surprise bag yours came in so I think you scored a pretty good deal.


----------



## BCool

JAnonymous5150 said:


> If you have a pic I can tell you if they look like the SL 1.0s. I have become pretty familiar with FAAEAL's lineup and the various permutations of the SL and Iris in particular from when I was buying them myself.
> 
> FWIW, I really dig the SL lineup and I paid more for mine than you did for the surprise bag yours came in so I think you scored a pretty good deal.


I should have clarified, the pic in the spoiler tag is the one I received.


----------



## qua2k (Sep 27, 2022)

I feel like this is long overdue but I finally received some Hiegi black foams to try out. These foams are thick! as compared to the Trig Rain's but this is a good thing, especially with mx500 shells. I have read that some, including me, find the mx500 shells to be a tad loose, not as 'glued-in' so to speak resting on the ear. Hiegi foams fixes this, at least for me. I just wish they came in a skittle mix of colors instead of just black and white.


----------



## waynes world

Just popping in to give more props to the FF3's. 

My desktop setup is [Laptop --> Grace SDAC --> Monolith Liquid Spark amp], and I usually only listen to my headphones through that setup. But the FF3's sound sooooo good and scale so nicely, that I am a very happy camper listening to them through that setup as well.

The FF3's are no joke


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 27, 2022)

BCool said:


> I should have clarified, the pic in the spoiler tag is the one I received.



Nope, I'm an idiot and just overlooked it. Those do indeed look like the SL 1.0+.

Edit: Meant to say 1.0+ not just 1.0. Duh!


----------



## drewbadour (Sep 27, 2022)

Speaking of Faaeal... Rosemary arrived today.

For $20, I think these are a steal - it's like Iris 2.0 but... improved!

Typically warm-leaning Faaeal house sound. Bass glide that almost bleeds into mids but unlike Iris 2.0, it's not as overtly muddy (granted it still somewhat struggles with congested passages but hey what can you expect for $20 - same cost as a McDonalds value meal these days after tax). Decent treble that leans dark.

Somehow the complete package is just incredibly palatable - easy to listen to and without too many things that bother me. Texture and timbre is shockingly good for the price. Once again floored with the buds that are available these days across all price brackets...

Are there other must listens at around $20?


----------



## sofastreamer

fogside said:


> Fiio in trn's skin or the story that once a year and a b-brand shoots up.
> Since their appearance at ali emh have attracted my attention with their great design and overall idea, conquered by the democratic price, introduced a share of doubts about the reputation of the manufacturer and the mediocre debut of the emh model.While flying and driving the most popular thought was - how long will I sell them)) The fuel to the fire of doubt added reviews on the head-fi, which then did not sit, then tinkle, no body, no bass ...
> So the coveted box was taken in the delivery department and unpacking pleasantly surprised - the presence of instructions (so that in razfazu not included people like me), excellent thick suede bag for headphones, soft and lightweight cable with changeable plugs, The headphones themselves executed qualitatively and accurately, ear cushions included catastrophically little (4 pcs) are dense and thin on the driver, as a gift threw a pair of ear cushions for large-sized ear plugs why the mystery. ..
> Let's start with the fit - in my ears they are placed in a perfect behind-the-ear way - tight without shifts with good adherence to the canal, what actually level out the main drawback of earmolds - shift in the ear when moving; the right step was to make the transition to the sound chamber from the driver long enough.Pressure to the ear brings no usual bonuses since the fit is tight.
> ...


which are these?


----------



## fogside

sofastreamer said:


> which are these?


TRN EMX


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 27, 2022)

drewbadour said:


> Speaking of Faaeal... Rosemary arrived today.
> 
> For $20, I think these are a steal - it's like Iris 2.0 but... improved!
> 
> ...



I love my Rosemarys! Other good ones around $20, some more and some less, are the HE150Pro (you can buy these only at Penon Audio AFAIK), Toneking TP16, and NSC Audio 80ohm LCP (from the NSC Audio DIY Store on AliExpress. These are my favorites in that price range along with the Rosemarys. If you look back a few post someone posted a link to the NSC Audio 80s.

Edit: The link was posted by @4ceratops and I'm putting it below.

https://m.nl.aliexpress.com/item/10...u_2001941475688.0&gatewayAdapt=gloPc2nldMsite

The version I am referring to in my post is the 80ohm LCP driver version in that link. Not the titanium driver. I bought mine without the cable so I can't speak to how good or not the cable is.


----------



## cqtek (Sep 27, 2022)

The Smabat M4 and all its accessories have arrived.
Really, the M4 is the best DIY job Smabat have ever designed. The screw thread can still be improved and, above all, to fit the Tuning Damper filters you have to have some skill. I'm quite clumsy when it comes to this kind of things...

On the other hand, I still don't like the MMCX connection, I have few cables that resist its use.

As far as sound is concerned, I've only been able to try the original M4 and the ST20Pro driver. What I like the most is that they have achieved a very full sound from the low frequencies, with very full mids. The bass control with the ST20Pro driver is very good. For me it is a qualitative leap from the Smabat M2s Pro.


----------



## BCool

A question for the DIYers, what do you guys use for tuning materials? I've got these horseshoe tuning papers in my basket, and I'm looking at these meshes but I'm not sure what size to go for (I'm gonna order several thicknesses to experiment with) as they come in 4, 4.2, 4.5 and 5mm sizes. I was also looking at this tuning cotton.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Sep 27, 2022)

Setmagic said:


> PS 3. DIY Workroom



I see this workroom in this thread once in a while but cannot find a link or anything about it. Is it some kind of secret club for VIP DIYer or something  



BCool said:


> A question for the DIYers, what do you guys use for tuning materials? I've got these horseshoe tuning papers in my basket, and I'm looking at these meshes but I'm not sure what size to go for (I'm gonna order several thicknesses to experiment with) as they come in 4, 4.2, 4.5 and 5mm sizes. I was also looking at this tuning cotton.



I bought all thickness of first horseshoes that you share. For the mesh, I bought all thickness of 4.5mm. I used these meshes to control the air / pressure going though the back vent of both DIY buds and IEMs. By combining the bass vent, foam, and mesh, you can finely control the amount of venting at the back of the driver. Quite cool to experiment.

Zero idea about the tuning cotton.


----------



## drewbadour (Sep 27, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I love my Rosemarys! Other good ones around $20, some more and some less, are the HE150Pro (you can buy these only at Penon Audio AFAIK), Toneking TP16, and NSC Audio 80ohm LCP (from the NSC Audio DIY Store on AliExpress. These are my favorites in that price range along with the Rosemarys. If you look back a few post someone posted a link to the NSC Audio 80s.
> 
> Edit: The link was posted by @4ceratops and I'm putting it below.
> 
> ...


Oooh this is excellent!

Do you have a list somewhere with recommendations? Would love to learn more!

Also, is the titanium version not as good as the LCP?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

drewbadour said:


> Oooh this is excellent!
> 
> Do you have a list somewhere with recommendations? Would love to learn more!
> 
> Also, is the titanium version not as good as the LCP?



I haven't tried the titanium. They might be awesome too, but I only threw the LCP version in my cart on a whim because I tend to enjoy LCP drivers, I thought the shells looked cool, and I needed to add a few more bucks to my order to get a $40 coupon lol!

I don't have a list, but I'm always happy to give suggestions based on my experiences with buds I have tried or own/owned. I have been doing a ton of buying and trying over the last several months. If you just tell me your musical or tuning preferences and price range(s) then I'd be happy to try to help you find something that fits.

Alternately, you can also look in my sig which is a list of my standouts/favorites from what I currently own.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Alternately, you can also look in my sig which is a list of my standouts/favorites from what I currently own.



You have supermoon already???


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> You have supermoon already???



Yes sir! CA finally got them to me maybe two weeks ago. Not sure because my schedule has been crazy, but something like that.


----------



## syazwaned

cqtek said:


> The Smabat M4 and all its accessories have arrived.
> Really, the M4 is the best DIY job Smabat have ever designed. The screw thread can still be improved and, above all, to fit the Tuning Damper filters you have to have some skill. I'm quite clumsy when it comes to this kind of things...
> 
> On the other hand, I still don't like the MMCX connection, I have few cables that resist its use.
> ...


it is.... bright?


----------



## Setmagic (Sep 27, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> I see this workroom in this thread once in a while but cannot find a link or anything about it. Is it some kind of secret club for VIP DIYer or something


Just a group of old DIY'ers who works underground.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Yes sir! CA finally got them to me maybe two weeks ago. Not sure because my schedule has been crazy, but something like that.



Looking forward for your comparison against S12. Folks have been going on and on about how the supermoon out-resolve Andromeda, so I couldn’t be more curious.



Setmagic said:


> Just a group of old DIY'ers who works underground.



Noted. When I am older, I will apply for membership


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 27, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Folks have been going on and on about how the supermoon out-resolve Andromeda, so I couldn’t be more curious.



They are very detailed, definitely more so than the S12s, but they don't out resolve the Andro 2020s. They approach that level and perhaps equal it, but I suspect that some of that is due to perceived detail rather than actual detail because the Supermoons definitely have a noticeably recessed midrange and an elevated treble that is at least in part meant for that purpose.

The SMs are very high energy and fun to listen to. The bass is tight and reaches deep with a good slam element to it which isn't normally my thing, but in this case I have found it enjoyable. The treble is elevated, but not offensive (at least not to me) and gives nice shimmer to cymbals and such. Notably, the SM is the only planar based IEM that I have heard thus far that keeps the fast attack and low range agility while avoiding the unrealistically quick decay and lack of sustain on some acoustic instruments and cymbals. 

Thats a pet peeve of mine and it's a big reason why many planar IEMs and over ears don't make it into my collection. The over ear manufacturers seem to have found reliable ways to solve it, though I still hear it in a lot of the mid level Hifiman sets in particular. And, as I said, the SMs are very detailed. If the tuning was closer to neutral you could use them for critical listening, but, as with many V shaped tuned IEMs, the recessed mids make them less than ideal for that purpose.

The tuning also makes them more of a rock, pop, electronic, etc IEM because the mids being a step back makes jazz, classical, and certain vocal driven stuff sound less than ideal, though not bad by any means. Overall, I think they're actually pretty impressive. If you want to hear all the details your music has to offer while smiling and headbanging along, the SMs are a must try option if they're within your budget.

I got the custom version. I mention this because the SMs seem to be very source and tip sensitive, with drastic changes sometimes apparent from tip to tip and lesser, but very noticeable changes between sources. Thus, I'm not sure how much the universal fit would differ from custom. I tried a friend's pair of customs before ordering mine which obviously didn't fit me perfectly and I still found them impressive enough to order my own pair. Just FYI for anyone who reads this.

To make this topical, I'd like to point out that I have still been listening to my earbuds more often so this will likely be my last IEM purchase for musical enjoyment/non-professional monitoring purposes for some time. Thankfully, I have a good stable that should serve me well for as long as I decide to remain out of the IEM market. Earbuds have really become my preferred non-over ear transducer medium. 👍😎

Edit: Changed slightly recessed mid range to noticeably recessed. I think it's more accurate as the mids are more than slightly recessed though they aren't nearly as recessed as many V shaped tunings.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Sep 27, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> They are very detailed, definitely more so than the S12s, but they don't out resolve the Andro 2020s. They approach that level and perhaps equal it, but I suspect that some of that is due to perceived detail rather than actual detail because the Supermoons definitely have a slightly recessed midrange and an elevated treble that is at least in part meant for that purpose.
> 
> The SMs are very high energy and fun to listen to. The bass is tight and reaches deep with a good slam element to it which isn't normally my thing, but in this case I have found it enjoyable. The treble is elevated, but not offensive (at least not to me) and gives nice shimmer to cymbals and such. Notably, the SM is the only planar based IEM that I have heard thus far that keeps the fast attack and low range agility while avoiding the unrealistically quick decay and lack of sustain on some acoustic instruments and cymbals.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the response mate. If SM s more resolving than S12, then I think the insistence on not dampening the drivers by Campfire works well this time, somehow. Seems like a universal winner for Campfire again, long after the Andromeda. For SM price, I rather get Thieaudio Monarch Mk2 + Fiio M11s though  

What's next for the earbuds journey? I'm eagerly waiting for my Megatron + VE Master and Smabat M4. It seems the postoffice misplaced my VE package, so Smabat for now (I paid for both, btw. No freebie for reviewer). After this, I would get back to DIY. Looking forward to grab Serratus for close study. Hopefully, one day I'll be good enough to make you a pair of earbuds


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Thanks for the response mate. If SM s more resolving than S12, then I think the insistence on not dampening the drivers by Campfire works well this time, somehow. Seems like a universal winner for Campfire again, long after the Andromeda. For SM price, I rather get Thieaudio Monarch Mk2 + Fiio M11s though
> 
> What's next for the earbuds journey? I'm eagerly waiting for my Megatron + VE Master and Smabat M4. It seems the postoffice misplaced my VE package, so Smabat for now (I paid for both, btw. No freebie for reviewer). After this, I would get back to DIY. Looking forward to grab Serratus for close study. Hopefully, one day I'll be good enough to make you a pair of earbuds




I'll look forward to hearing a pair as soon as you get to the level where you're ready to part with one of your creations. For earbuds, I have a few still coming in like the Penon BS-1 Official which should be here in a day or two and some others I can't remember off the top of my head. I still have to get acquainted with the M4s (and all the its drivers) and Super Ones that showed up. I plan on acquiring a pair of Blurs when I have time to sit down and figure out what I'm looking for. 

After that, I think I'll just be kickin' back and enjoying what I have unless I run across something exceptional or a great deal on a used pair or something. At this point, I have put together a pretty sick collection and I think I have plenty to just enjoy the heck out of. Plus, as my schedule gets busier and busier and then I hit tour time again, buying too many more at this point probably wouldn't make too much sense.

Edit: I'm almost done restoring this drum set for my buddy's birthday so I'll be doing some DIYing soon for sure, too!


----------



## fogside (Sep 28, 2022)

Newest toneking MANBA )

https://a.aliexpress.com/_EwTcaKB


----------



## WoodyLuvr

fogside said:


> Newest toneking MANBA )
> 4 709,09 грн.  20%СКИДКА | Металлические плоские наушники TONEKING MANBA, динамические Hi-Fi-наушники в стиле статического электричества с кабелем 3,5 мм MMCX
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_EwTcaKB


Wow! So it does appear to be Manba and not Mamba...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-17126188


----------



## Kenyon

samandhi said:


> OIC. What made you change your mind and go to UC Berkeley?
> 
> Also, don't forget about different algorithms for different apps that make the music player itself sound different, even on the same device. This can happen even on bit perfect players. For instance, Neutron does indeed sound different than UAPP, from Hiby, from Mango, from FiiO app, etc... And believe it or not, the DAC in the DAP does indeed influence the sound.
> 
> ...


Whilst I agree about the myriad of small things that can cause sources to differ in sound, we need to create a separation of user generated changes to manufacturer stock / from changes in the digital realm to analogue realm and finally - sorry to be pedantic -  but there are a few important distinctions to be made based on your comments:

1) The DAC chip is a decoder/renderer and does not actually create any sound signature (save for a fault such as the now fixable in implementation ESS hump). It decides/renders to the spec required given its capabilities, applies the Chipmaker filters to push its performance to as purely optimal as possible and if Delta-Sigma, through the use of a feedback loop to lower distortion - which has caused most modern chips to have a spec’d SINAD where we do not need to worry about degradation - ESS and AKM are in excess of 144db dynamic range for the last 3 / 4 years. 

Consequently, any change in sound is unlikely to be from the DAC chip itself but from manufacturer filters or output stage that have been implemented. Whether these changes are distinguishable in the audible band is a different story (115db being the upper limit on what most conclude is audible - so hard to see modern DAC chip filters at over 125db causing an issue however different output staging and op amps could if you wanted to push it for demonstration purposes) but in the main they will only create slight measurable differences if implemented properly. YMMV - dependent on how well the gear has been implemented (this being more to do with a bad implementation than one being super revealing) and especially if you feel you have golden ears and can hear effectively over 115db. 

However within a DAP there is no current way to know what comes from the DAC chip or elsewhere in the audio chain as it is an integrated device. You can only give measurements for the device as a whole. So it is impossible to say whether it is the DAC chip that causes the sound to be different. 

2) Dither can be applied both in the studio and in playback but playback dither has to be after the volume control and is only relevant with lowered bit depths. The quantization distortion does not necessarily sit inside the file itself, that is the file bit rate most nowadays being mastered at floating 32bit, - but is created through the decode/render. Dithering is a fix for the digital approximation method for downscaling through the addition of noise and it is perhaps unintentionally misleading to speak about distortion here as it is happening in a different way to how we appreciate this in the analogue domain. Dither is not really a form of active DSP to improve SQ but something used to fix a technical problem. So if your using lower bitrate (eg 16bit) it would benefit the SQ to use dithering especially at low listening levels. This is already present in nearly all modern DACs. 

I attach an easy to read link around this area: https://www.izotope.com/en/learn/what-is-dithering-in-audio.html

This has also been covered here and throughout ASR:


3) Whilst these players can be “bit perfect” what happens after the decode/render including any form of volume control, EQ, room correction, etc… will impact that “bit perfection” so that it is no longer bit perfect and again create measurement differences. This is user active DSP to create SQ changes. This is why this inquiry, in the main, has moved from bit perfection to transparency. A reminder that nowadays the differences mostly feature in the analogue not the digital domain and why some are evangelical about DACs sounding the same (their interpretation being narrowed to the chipset only - not the gear - or to well implemented modern Delta Sigma DACs).


----------



## cocolinho

samandhi said:


> The FF3 are much more *bassy *(lower, mid, and upper bass) making the *mids* much *thicker *and *warmer*. Also, the treble is *very polite* on the FF3 so the mids are also a bit more forward while being thick(ish). The pina gain is also much less so* there isn't the added perception of clarity* to the overall sound.


Exactly how I hear these FF3 as well. Very thick overall, L shape


----------



## o0genesis0o (Sep 28, 2022)

Kenyon said:


> Whilst I agree about the myriad of small things that can cause sources to differ in sound, we need to create a separation of user generated changes to manufacturer stock / from changes in the digital realm to analogue realm and finally - sorry to be pedantic -  but there are a few important distinctions to be made based on your comments:
> 
> 1) The DAC chip is a decoder/renderer and does not actually create any sound signature (save for a fault such as the now fixable in implementation ESS hump). It decides/renders to the spec required given its capabilities, applies the Chipmaker filters to push its performance to as purely optimal as possible and if Delta-Sigma, through the use of a feedback loop to lower distortion - which has caused most modern chips to have a spec’d SINAD where we do not need to worry about degradation - ESS and AKM are in excess of 144db dynamic range for the last 3 / 4 years.
> 
> ...




Hey, thanks for the detailed explanation. I think I was the one who raised the question that prompted @JAnonymous5150 response. To be perfectly clear, I did not pay much attention in high school besides memorising the necessary formulas to get A+, so I don't quite understand the involved electronics and physics . I don't believe that the DAC themselves make that much of a difference nowadays.The amp? Maybe more noticeable because it is an imperfect analog device anyway.

I used to believe that unless I use hard-to-drive headphones, an Apple dongle is enough for every portable gear. However, I got more opportunity to try, compare, and review more portable DAC/AMP combos recently, and I started to notice differences that should not be there, and they are driving me nut. For example, Andromeda 2020 is an extremely sensitive IEM that does not require much output, yet it sounds different on two audio sources with the same ~0ohm output impedance and pitch black background. I know that I hear slight but noticeable difference again and again, no matter how long I leave before retrying. I feel like a fraud when writing that there is a difference .

Anyhow, back to earbuds topic, I'm kind of glad that ear buds are not that picky as sensitive IEMs. Though, obviously poor sources still sound horrible with earbuds.


----------



## Kenyon

o0genesis0o said:


> Hey, thanks for the detailed explanation. I think I was the one who raised the question that prompted @JAnonymous5150 response. To be perfectly clear, I did not pay much attention in high school besides memorising the necessary formulas to get A+, so I don't quite understand the involved electronics and physics . I don't believe that the DAC themselves make that much of a difference nowadays.The amp? Maybe more noticeable because it is an imperfect analog device anyway.
> 
> I used to believe that unless I use hard-to-drive headphones, an Apple dongle is enough for every portable gear. However, I got more opportunity to try, compare, and review more portable DAC/AMP combos recently, and I started to notice differences that should not be there, and they are driving me nut. For example, Andromeda 2020 is an extremely sensitive IEM that does not require much output, yet it sounds different on two audio sources with the same ~0ohm output impedance and pitch black background. I know that I hear slight but noticeable difference again and again, no matter how long I leave before retrying. I feel like a fraud when writing that there is a difference .
> 
> Anyhow, back to earbuds topic, I'm kind of glad that ear buds are not that picky as sensitive IEMs. Though, obviously poor sources still sound horrible with earbuds.



Haha completely understand have had that experience myself as well and it drove me crazy…

If you don’t mind me asking what sources are/were you using?


----------



## cqtek

syazwaned said:


> it is.... bright?


You ask if M4s have a lot of treble? No, it has its point of presence, but it's not a bright sound, it's fuller.


----------



## samandhi (Sep 28, 2022)

Kenyon said:


> Whilst I agree about the myriad of small things that can cause sources to differ in sound, we need to create a separation of user generated changes to manufacturer stock / from changes in the digital realm to analogue realm and finally - sorry to be pedantic - but there are a few important distinctions to be made based on your comments:


And while I agree that your essay was very well written and well thought out, for the purpose of the OP question (query) there doesn't necessarily need to be separation, only some examples as to why sources DO indeed sound different from one another were meant to be proffered.

I would also offer that a DAC chip does indeed alter the sound depending on its quality, and the algorithm used. Think of it like a painting. If you have a great DAC, this will deliver a pro-grade print, with all the colors and fine details of the source preserved. A poor DAC, on the other hand, would be like a cheap pixelated print job of an otherwise beautiful digital image. Even nowadays not all DAC chips are created equal, and I would also argue that there are differences even among higher end DACs because the technology is still advancing.

On the other hand, one has to also look at the overall picture where DAC chips are concerned because (as another analogy) they can be looked at like a guitar. That guitar might be fantastic, but doesn't make a sound without the strings. So, implementation and other electronics all go together to make the whole. So, yes the overall implementation does indeed help in shaping the sound, but if you have a poor DAC chip (guitar), it doesn't matter the implementation (strings). Garbage in, garbage out....

As for dither, you are correct when you said:


Kenyon said:


> The quantization distortion does not necessarily sit inside the file itself


and that was an error on my part (apologies). But also, a differentiation needs to be made on lower bitrate files where dither is concerned. "Playback" dither only works with lossless files.

And I would also have to respectfully disagree with this:


Kenyon said:


> This is already present in nearly all modern DACs.


and refer you to this forum for some measurements that show dither being used on 16-bit files with DSP (which also affects the need for dither on playback) with noticeable effect.



Kenyon said:


> 3) Whilst these players can be “bit perfect” what happens after the decode/render including any form of volume control, EQ, room correction, etc… will impact that “bit perfection” so that it is no longer bit perfect and again create measurement differences.


This is also why purists desire R2R DACs rather than delta-sigma because there is no conversion necessary using R2R if using PCM as the source. It is also why most masters are not recorded/produced into DSD. It cannot be manipulated without converting it to PCM then back to DSD. So, in reality bit perfect is a bit of a misnomer anyhow because any conversion from one thing to another relies on algorithms and programming, which are never perfect to begin with (though some do it better than others).


----------



## samandhi

cqtek said:


> You ask if M4s have a lot of treble? No, it has its point of presence, but it's not a bright sound, it's fuller.


Agreed. While it DOES have a boosted pina gain that may make is SEEM brighter, the treble is present, but laid back a bit IMO.


----------



## waynes world

cocolinho said:


> Exactly how I hear these FF3 as well. Very thick overall, L shape



I'd agree - when using the bass foams. With the crisp foams however, they sound a lot more balanced to me (well, probably more v-shaped, which to me is balanced lol).


----------



## Oscarilbo (Sep 28, 2022)

Anyone knows why Crinacle "hates" earbuds? I was looking for some measurements on the Chaconne on his ranking lists but nothing. 
I mean he literally said its not a good technology in one of his videos, but no further explanation.


----------



## SolaVirtus

Before I go trying to ask @FiiO, does anybody here know anything about getting additional terminations to their modular cables? 
I'm quite enjoying my new FF3 and I'd really like a 2.5mm balanced termination to snap on to it. 

I am finding the little 1V dongles (3.5mm SE) not really powering them sufficiently, so I'd like to us a more powerful TempoTec dongle that's 2.5mm.


----------



## qua2k (Sep 28, 2022)

Oscarilbo said:


> Anyone knows why Crinacle "hates" earbuds? I was looking for some measurements on the Chaconne on his ranking lists but nothing.
> I mean he literally said its not a good technology in one of his videos, but no further explanation.


Maybe because they are cheap and don't cost hundreds or thousands of dollars compared to IEMs and headphones. Many in the high end look down on buds as inferior peon tech. Reviewing earbuds wont get him as many likes. Lastly, he is human and certainly has his faults like the rest of us.


----------



## syazwaned

Oscarilbo said:


> Anyone knows why Crinacle "hates" earbuds? I was looking for some measurements on the Chaconne on his ranking lists but nothing.
> I mean he literally said its not a good technology in one of his videos, but no further explanation.


Crin said that earbuds FR are too dependent on its fit, unlike iem.


----------



## Oscarilbo

syazwaned said:


> Crin said that earbuds FR are too dependent on its fit, unlike iem.


Well to be fare IEM does to to a certain degree. I think measuring earbuds must have been very frustrating for him


----------



## emusic13

Guess this is one way to solve the cable issues from previous bells


----------



## Kenyon

samandhi said:


> And while I agree that your essay was very well written and well thought out, for the purpose of the OP question (query) there doesn't necessarily need to be separation, only some examples as to why sources DO indeed sound different from one another were meant to be proffered.


Apologies for the long post in advance. I have no desire to argue and really would prefer this thread to resume to earbud related matters. But addressing some things in your reply is again necessary.

You were the original OP to my “essay” and unfortunately because of your responses it was necessary to offer factual context. I believe the original OP you reference has already responded…


samandhi said:


> I would also offer that a DAC chip does indeed alter the sound depending on its quality, and the algorithm used. Think of it like a painting.


Again, with respect, this is engineering / tech and not art or magic. 

I believe this was commented on regarding earbuds in this thread a few days ago also. 



samandhi said:


> If you have a great DAC, this will deliver a pro-grade print, with all the colors and fine details of the source preserved. A poor DAC, on the other hand, would be like a cheap pixelated print job of an otherwise beautiful digital image.


What qualifies as a great DAC and a poor one? Can we quantify this? 

No one is referencing an objectively poor measuring DAC here which the OP has reiterated and I stated throughout my previous post. 

Yes, there will be an obvious audible difference between a DAC with huge distortion spikes / a SINAD within the audible band vs pretty much all HiFi DACs manufactured in the last 2-3 years. No one contends with that type of extreme case but I don’t believe that was what anyone was inquiring about.

Again, with all due respect, be careful to not conflate things to try to push an analogy - as a DAC and a DAC chip are not the same. 

Regarding the chip:
Saying all DAC chips are the same is as much of a nonsense as saying all cars are the same but you are simplifying this far too much. Of course a DAC chip from 20 years ago will not measure the same as today but again that was not what was being asked. There is a distinction between something sounding different and something being good or bad. They are not mutually exclusive - both can sound different and both can be good for example. 

Let’s narrow the scope a little and just talk about modern DAC chips:
If we are talking about resolution and preservation of source as you suggest in your analogy - then I am 100% in agreement - and it consequently would then follow that surely the better the measurements, the better the DAC. All manufacturers should therefore seek out the best DAC chips as they are the most transparent and we would have objective measurements to judge a DAC without arguement…

And luckily for us DAC chip are spec’d out components which place an upper bound on the ultimate resolution of the conversion. Achieving this to the highest rate is it’s only concern. Yes, filters are applied (as I pointed out in my last post) by the chip maker to achieve this but these cause harmonic distortion at levels well beyond audible even in $100 dollar DACs. 

https://archimago.blogspot.com/2022/07/hi-res-thdn-vs-output-level.html?m=1

But if this was the case and you still contend that different DAC chips sound differently we need to ask the question as to why would chip makers make the DAC chip to not function optimally? Especially when you have stated that the DAC chip should give the maximum resolution possible… That chipmaker could then be said depending on how you draw your good/bad dac delineation to only produce chips for DACs which must be bad as their upper band of resolution is already stated to be sub optimal…

And to follow that logic you would be suggesting that there is a clear distinction to make between say an ESS and an AKM chip where one is objectively good and another objectively bad since they sound differently so will measure differently…

Is this correct…? 

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...us-ess-measurements-dac-preamp-headamp.35377/

So I suppose the difference is in the “colour” to use your analogy. But this is not in the purview of the DAC chip. Further if it was we would just, like with colours in your analogy, be able to quantify and measure this. Just like how we have come to understand the visual data that gave rise to RGB v CMYK for different print mediums and an ability to transpose between the two with visual differences, we would have different measurements for different chips where audible differences are explained. Whilst this sounds ideal - the above measurements bare that this is not the case. 

Regarding DACs:
Sure they can sound different as I stated previously. 



samandhi said:


> Even nowadays not all DAC chips are created equal, and I would also argue that there are differences even among higher end DACs because the technology is still advancing.
> 
> On the other hand, one has to also look at the overall picture where DAC chips are concerned because (as another analogy) they can be looked at like a guitar. That guitar might be fantastic, but doesn't make a sound without the strings. So, implementation and other electronics all go together to make the whole. So, yes the overall implementation does indeed help in shaping the sound, but if you have a poor DAC chip (guitar), it doesn't matter the implementation (strings). Garbage in, garbage out....


So you are agreeing with me… 


samandhi said:


> As for dither, you are correct when you said:
> 
> and that was an error on my part (apologies). But also, a differentiation needs to be made on lower bitrate files where dither is concerned. "Playback" dither only works with lossless files.


Lossless is a type of file compression. It allows for the reconstruction of original information without loss. FLAC is the common lossless file type for audio.

You can be lossless and also be 16bit which is the standard bitrate used in CD DACs and seen as audio red book standard. 

16bit refers to the bit depth which responds to the information within a given sample rate sizing and nothing to do with lossless audio. 


samandhi said:


> And I would also have to respectfully disagree with this:
> 
> and refer you to this forum for some measurements that show dither being used on 16-bit files with DSP (which also affects the need for dither on playback) with noticeable effect.


Again you are agreeing with me… as I stated dither will likely (if at all depending on the fidelity of the DAC and YMMV attitude to audibility golden ears levels) help if turned on when using a lower bitrate (eg. 16bit) under low volume conditions. It is a technical solution to a statistical problem not a means to achieve higher SQ no matter the situation. And yes it is auto implemented to varying degrees within most modern DACs yet it is most commonly used at the software level. 

For some reason the link is not opening for me… can you repost?


samandhi said:


> This is also why purists desire R2R DACs rather than delta-sigma because there is no conversion necessary using R2R if using PCM as the source.


I can go into this but I do not want to derail this thread further.

Suffice to say that R2R DACs do convert digital to analogue otherwise it wouldn’t be a DAC and no audio would play from the digital source. I think you have perhaps misunderstood how R2R works here.

I would also contend that all audiophiles or “purists” as you refer to them prefer R2R. If you have evidence of this I am happy to educate myself further but otherwise this feels very much like a personal generalization and in my experience such generalizations do not really add objective weight here unfortunately so I prefer not to use them as it inevitably ends in a preference shouting war. 

Whilst not all R2R DACs have necessarily low measurement data - see Holo May - in the main R2R measurements are generally within the audible band and traditionally have not measured well. But then wouldn’t this also run contrary to your above arguement that a better dac has more resolution and transparency to source…?


samandhi said:


> It is also why most masters are not recorded/produced into DSD.


DSD is a transmission/playback format.
Masters are usually kept as Wav.


samandhi said:


> It cannot be manipulated without converting it to PCM then back to DSD. So, in reality bit perfect is a bit of a misnomer anyhow because any conversion from one thing to another relies on algorithms and programming, which are never perfect to begin with (though some do it better than others).


Again why the shift from bit perfect to transparency.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

SolaVirtus said:


> Before I go trying to ask @FiiO, does anybody here know anything about getting additional terminations to their modular cables?
> I'm quite enjoying my new FF3 and I'd really like a 2.5mm balanced termination to snap on to it.
> 
> I am finding the little 1V dongles (3.5mm SE) not really powering them sufficiently, so I'd like to us a more powerful TempoTec dongle that's 2.5mm.



@o0genesis0o has ordered the 2.5mm tip from Fiio through AliExpress IIRC. He should be able to help you out.


----------



## samandhi

Kenyon said:


> Apologies for the long post in advance. I have no desire to argue and really would prefer this thread to resume to earbud related matters. But addressing some things in your reply is again necessary.
> 
> You were the original OP to my “essay” and unfortunately because of your responses it was necessary to offer factual context. I believe the original OP you reference has already responded…
> 
> ...


I am not sure why the need for you to show up here (from nowhere) and pick apart what I have to say, and (seemingly and or possibly purposely) misunderstand what it is I'm trying to say. Saying that masters are usually kept in .wav being one of those. That is an irrelevant statement, because it is still PCM not DSD (in which case there ARE some artists that DO indeed record to DSD). My OG post was not inaccurate (other than the one item I apologized for) and we could argue day in and day out, citing opposing information until "the cows come home" (of which I am sure there is an abundant amount on either side, just like the argument whether cables make the difference in sound or not, for instance), and it would solve nothing. 

Why would you bother to ask me for a repost of a link that you are only determined to refute to begin with? Maybe you should have this argument with the creator of the Neutron app (which is where I pulled the information from). https://neutroncode.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6143

Another "for instance", I could be passive aggressive and tell you that DSD is actually NOT a transmission/playback format (which appears to be the sort of thing you are doing with all that I say). It was created as a storage format for archived recordings, in which case I would be correct. Then you would say "it may have begun its life as such, but is no longer used in that manner", in which case you would also be right. There are "unmeasurable" characteristics about sound that can neither be qualified nor quantified whether you spout quotes from others or are an engineer yourself. Sometimes math DOES indeed get in the way of being correct where sound is concerned. 

I am not going to continue this (pointless) conversation with you (especially parts where you try and "school" me about what a lossless file is and such, as an example). If you feel the need to correct (with your version of whatever it is that you are arguing) feel free to hop on over to the "Sound Science" threads. I hear they love arguing with each other over there. I don't need to spend all day/every day doing a write-up just to apply added knowledge to back up @JAnonymous5150's post, which was in reply to @o0genesis0o's query. 

I came to this thread to get away from elitists that think they are better or like to "flex" or show off by trying to discredit others with three-page write-ups. So please don't come in here and try and "talk down" to me as if I were a child that doesn't know any better and cite whatever statistics that make you seem 100% right. You're not, and (as mentioned earlier) I could find opposing citations that would oppose some of what you say. I'm not saying you are totally wrong, you're not. But you are focusing on something that is actually irrelevant (not pertinent) the the actual conversation. 

You have yourself a great day sir/madam!


```
@samanadhi presses the ignore button for @Kenyon
```


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> @o0genesis0o has ordered the 2.5mm tip from Fiio through AliExpress IIRC. He should be able to help you out.


Oh, I did not know that, and would also be interested. I guess I never bothered to ask because I didn't think they made them (else why wouldn't they include them???). Interesting!

Is it the same method used for ordering extra foams, I wonder?


----------



## Danneq

Now now, let's not argue here!


----------



## FranQL

samandhi said:


> I am not sure why the need for you to show up here (from nowhere) and pick apart what I have to say, and (seemingly and or possibly purposely) misunderstand what it is I'm trying to say. Saying that masters are usually kept in .wav being one of those. That is an irrelevant statement, because it is still PCM not DSD (in which case there ARE some artists that DO indeed record to DSD). My OG post was not inaccurate (other than the one item I apologized for) and we could argue day in and day out, citing opposing information until "the cows come home" (of which I am sure there is an abundant amount on either side, just like the argument whether cables make the difference in sound or not, for instance), and it would solve nothing.
> 
> Why would you bother to ask me for a repost of a link that you are only determined to refute to begin with? Maybe you should have this argument with the creator of the Neutron app (which is where I pulled the information from). https://neutroncode.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6143
> 
> ...




the dsd is better because it occupies more megabytes, what do you think? It is an objective and measurable data! As I continue with this level I will have to make an account where the people who know!


----------



## o0genesis0o

Kenyon said:


> Haha completely understand have had that experience myself as well and it drove me crazy…
> 
> If you don’t mind me asking what sources are/were you using?



I primarily use Fiio KA3 because it sounds the best. It also drains battery fast, though. I also use AP80 Pro X DAP, which sounds less impactful but equally clean. And then there are BTR5, some Shanling stuffs. And of course I use Apple dongle for measuring frequency response.



Oscarilbo said:


> Anyone knows why Crinacle "hates" earbuds? I was looking for some measurements on the Chaconne on his ranking lists but nothing.
> I mean he literally said its not a good technology in one of his videos, but no further explanation.



To be fair, earbuds are indeed inferior as portable gears, you know, their intended purpose. As soon as there is any noise, your whole listening experience is ruined. You are not reducing  noise to the ears, you are adding, which might not be healthy in long term. 

For most people, they don’t hear soundstage and even if they do, they don’t care (personal experience letting casual listeners audition my stuffs). They want bass, real thick midbass. We rarely have good bass on buds (I said rarely, not never)



SolaVirtus said:


> Before I go trying to ask @FiiO, does anybody here know anything about getting additional terminations to their modular cables?
> I'm quite enjoying my new FF3 and I'd really like a 2.5mm balanced termination to snap on to it.
> 
> I am finding the little 1V dongles (3.5mm SE) not really powering them sufficiently, so I'd like to us a more powerful TempoTec dongle that's 2.5mm.



Hi folks, answer from Fiio below:

Dear friend,

If you need two, the cost is 16USD in total. 

Pls open this Aliexpress link: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004279948615.html, then to input "16" in the option of Quantity and click "Buy now" to complete the payment. After receiving your payment, we will arrange to send the item to you as soon as possible.
Kindly remember to leave a message of* the ticket number and the item you need*, for example _*' Ticket id（*_{{ticket.id}}_*） M5 display*_*,'* along with the payment, then I can handle it effectively.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Btw, audio hobby is dramatic. Chill, my fellow audio geeks


----------



## ian91 (Sep 28, 2022)

I consider myself a lurker in this thread, largely because I don't get much time to post, but I enjoy reading the regular exchanges that happen here and while this isn't directed at anyone in particular, I feel we need to inject some positivity! 

What are we enjoying this week? Any new buds or bud-related paraphernalia?


----------



## ttorbic (Sep 28, 2022)

I've been enjoying this album on my Alter Rider 1:
https://tidal.com/album/2044465


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> To be fair, earbuds are indeed inferior as portable gears, you know, their intended purpose. As soon as there is any noise, your whole listening experience is ruined. You are not reducing noise to the ears, you are adding, which might not be healthy in long term.
> 
> For most people, they don’t hear soundstage and even if they do, they don’t care (personal experience letting casual listeners audition my stuffs). They want bass, real thick midbass. We rarely have good bass on buds (I said rarely, not never)


Very interesting analysis! And I think you are absolutely right about what "most" people care for (and don't) in head gear. 


o0genesis0o said:


> Hi folks, answer from Fiio below:
> 
> Dear friend,
> 
> ...


Fantastic! Thank you for looking into this for us. I will have to order a 2.5mm for myself then.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Sep 28, 2022)

ian91 said:


> I consider myself a lurker in this thread, largely because I don't get much time to post, but I enjoy reading the regular exchanges that happen here and while this isn't directed at anyone in particular, I feel we need to inject some positivity!
> 
> What are we enjoying this week? Any new buds or bud-related paraphernalia?



I daily drive a DIY Frankenstein buds based on the drivers of YD30, stuffed in a metal shell. I particularly enjoy the feeling of lying on the bed with lights off, listening to a large orchestral piece with earbuds. I feel like floating in the space music around and in-front of me.

I'm enjoying the "Score" album by 2CELLOS. I practice violin but I like to listen to 2CELLOS and learn their bowing. Their tone is so strong and stable yet sensible. When I try the "strong" part, I tense up and sound like a robot. When I try the "sensible" part, my teacher (in the past, no more teacher nowadays) politely but firmly told me to stand still and play properly


----------



## samandhi

ian91 said:


> I consider myself a lurker in this thread, largely because I don't get much time to post, but I enjoy reading the regular exchanges that happen here and while this isn't directed at anyone in particular, I feel we need to inject some positivity!
> 
> What are we enjoying this week? Any new buds or bud-related paraphernalia?


And thank you for that sir! 

Today I decided to try (again) the FF3 with the "crisp" foams (upon recommendations from a few of you on here). And I still find them a bit hot for me. But.... since I am burning in (or getting my brain used to) the M4 being hot, I thought I might try the same with the FiiO and see what happens. 

And I am still stuck on Umphrey's Mcgee per @JAnonymous5150 rec (thanks again for a wonderful find). How about u?


ttorbic said:


> I've been enjoying this album on my Alter Rider 1: https://tidal.com/album/2044465


Nice! I will give that a listen later tonight.


----------



## ian91 (Sep 28, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> I'm enjoying the "Score" album by 2CELLOS. I practice violin I like to listen to 2CELLOS and listen for their bowing.



I need to check these out. I don't know where my obsession for string texture came from but that's all I've been chasing for in my drivers over the past year. That woody, warm, expressive texture where you can imply the bowing technique and movement of the person playing. 



o0genesis0o said:


> I feel like floating in the space music around and in-front of me.



Lying on the bed and winding down with an earbud is great. I tend to go for some Robert Rich and his Somnium album or Harold Budd' 'The Pearl'.  It really relaxes me!


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> I daily drive a DIY Frankenstein buds based on the drivers of YD30, stuffed in a metal shell. I particularly enjoy the feeling of lying on the bed with lights off, listening to a large orchestral piece with earbuds. I feel like floating in the space music around and in-front of me.
> 
> I'm enjoying the "Score" album by 2CELLOS. I practice violin but I like to listen to 2CELLOS and learn their bowing. Their tone is so strong and stable yet sensible. When I try the "strong" part, I tense up and sound like a robot. When I try the "sensible" part, my teacher (in the past, no more teacher nowadays) politely but firmly told me to stand still and play properly


LOL is that their name? 

This BTW is also one of the things that SO attracted me to buds to begin with. I just couldn't imagine something sounding so out of my head; more even than open back headphones because those you KNOW are on your head (most times lol), but earbuds give you that same sense, and you sometimes forget they are there, which in turn tricks your brain and you seem to feel that even more. 

Oh 2Cellos are great IMO! How long have you played?


----------



## fooltoque

o0genesis0o said:


> Hi folks, answer from Fiio below:
> 
> Dear friend,
> 
> ...


I'm interested in this too. So for a single 2.5 mm balanced termination, the cost is 8USD? 

What do they mean by Ticket ID? I am guessing they want to reference the support incident you opened to ask about it?


----------



## o0genesis0o

fooltoque said:


> I'm interested in this too. So for a single 2.5 mm balanced termination, the cost is 8USD?
> 
> What do they mean by Ticket ID? I am guessing they want to reference the support incident you opened to ask about it?



Yes, I do think so. It took me a while to understand that the example they gave is about someone who needs a replacement screen for M5 DAP.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 28, 2022)

I have been busy all day at the studio and whatnot, but as per @ian91 post about what were are enjoying I've got one. As most of you guys know, I got two pairs of Cypherus Audio buds recently, the ZoomFred Pros and the Black Edition with a custom retune job by Herry. Both are awesome and I'm stoked to own them. 

I'm really surprised by one thing in particular though. The ZF Pros are a better technical bud and a newer model that I like better than the way the Black Editions sounded before the retune. However, these retuned Black Editions are a whole different beast! They have this powerful attack with thick meaty decay and this overall punchy, funky style to them that has me addicted to listening to music with killer baselines especially if the bass guitar is being played slap style. I don't even know exactly how to describe it, but I don't think I've ever heard it before and I've been absolutely stuck on hunting through my music collection for albums specifically to play on these. So much fun! 🤘😎

Don't you just love it when you buy, make, or acquire something that adds happiness to your life and exceeds all expectations? I do.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Don't you just love it when you buy, make, or acquire something that adds happiness to your life and exceeds all expectations? I do.


Amen brother! 

Also, I posted this one before but seems very relevant (once again) to me. I don't normally like this sort of music (though @WoodyLuvr has provided some excellent recs for me to nibble on ), but the textures, and deep bass/bassline, and etc... is truly awe inspiring if bass is what you are seeking (not just an all bass song mind you). It seems as though you might like this track with your new shiny?!  Do be patient as it transitions quite a few times, and it is a rather long song. Also it DOES sound much better in higher resolution:


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> LOL is that their name?
> 
> This BTW is also one of the things that SO attracted me to buds to begin with. I just couldn't imagine something sounding so out of my head; more even than open back headphones because those you KNOW are on your head (most times lol), but earbuds give you that same sense, and you sometimes forget they are there, which in turn tricks your brain and you seem to feel that even more.
> 
> Oh 2Cellos are great IMO! How long have you played?



I think 5 or 6 years. I was living by myself the first time, abroad. The PhD did not go well so I distracted myself by watching an anime show about a high school girl who was given a magic violin and had to participate in a music competition against elite music students. The show had a lot of educational bits teaching classical music, so I suddenly wanted to play one of those instruments. I was leaning towards flute or clarinet, but remember I always wanted to mimic the violin sound when playing harmonica, so I picked violin.

I used to play harmonica in the past, actually. Recorded a couple “albums” but I lost the source files. Luckily some friends / fans / (creeps?) kept the original MP3 and uploaded them to Vietnamese spotify knock-off. (Here and here). I was such a w*nker with inflated ego back then to record these “albums” 

To bring this back to buds: these “albums” sound horrible with all of my buds, btw. I used to double checked them with laptop speakers


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> I used to play harmonica in the past, actually. Recorded a couple “albums” but I lost the source files. Luckily some friends / fans / (creeps?) kept the original MP3 and uploaded them to Vietnamese spotify knock-off. (Here and here).


WOW! Hats off to you sir!


----------



## waynes world (Sep 28, 2022)

samandhi said:


> And I am still stuck on Umphrey's Mcgee per @JAnonymous5150 rec (thanks again for a wonderful find). How about u?



I found the "Anchor Drops" album in my JAnonymous tidal playlist and gave it a whirl. Really liked it! Great band!



samandhi said:


> Amen brother!
> 
> Also, I posted this one before but seems very relevant (once again) to me. I don't normally like this sort of music (though @WoodyLuvr has provided some excellent recs for me to nibble on ), but the textures, and deep bass/bassline, and etc... is truly awe inspiring if bass is what you are seeking (not just an all bass song mind you). It seems as though you might like this track with your new shiny?!  Do be patient as it transitions quite a few times, and it is a rather long song. Also it DOES sound much better in higher resolution:




I do like my share of electronica/trance, so I'm really digging this as well!

Edit: it has a 70's vibe to it lol! Normally also wouldn't be my exact preference, but it has an addictive appeal to it!


----------



## fooltoque

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I have been busy all day at the studio and whatnot, but as per @ian91 post about what were are enjoying I've got one. As most of you guys know, I got two pairs of Cypherus Audio buds recently, the ZoomFred Pros and the Black Edition with a custom retune job by Herry. Both are awesome and I'm stoked to own them.
> 
> I'm really surprised by one thing in particular though. The ZF Pros are a better technical bud and a newer model that I like better than the way the Black Editions sounded before the retune. However, these retuned Black Editions are a whole different beast! They have this powerful attack with thick meaty decay and this overall punchy, funky style to them that has me addicted to listening to music with killer baselines especially if the bass guitar is being played slap style. I don't even know exactly how to describe it, but I don't think I've ever heard it before and I've been absolutely stuck on hunting through my music collection for albums specifically to play on these. So much fun! 🤘😎
> 
> Don't you just love it when you buy, make, or acquire something that adds happiness to your life and exceeds all expectations? I do.


If you haven't yet, try them with some Vulfpeck. The base lines are just so good. 



Spoiler


----------



## samandhi

waynes world said:


> I found the "Anchor Drops" album in my JAnonymous tidal playlist and gave it a whirl. Really liked it! Great band!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is it the Anchor Drops album, or the Anchor Drops Redux (which incidentally also has the OG album as CD #2)? I like them both, but I think I am digging the remaster versions even more than the remix versions (OG).

I don't know if you remember @miserybeforethemusic or not, but it was he that introduced me to this one. 

What did you listen with (if you don't mind me asking)?


----------



## waynes world

samandhi said:


> Is it the Anchor Drops album, or the Anchor Drops Redux (which incidentally also has the OG album as CD #2)? I like them both, but I think I am digging the remaster versions even more than the remix versions (OG).
> 
> I don't know if you remember @miserybeforethemusic or not, but it was he that introduced me to this one.
> 
> What did you listen with (if you don't mind me asking)?



It was the Redux version. I assume that's the remaster? I'll have to check out the OG album too.

I don't think I had the pleasure of knowing @misery, but he done good with the rec!

I was listening with the FF3's. Hard to get them out of my ears! But I did listen to the ST10 BG's for a while (with the bass foams). I'm very happy to have both of those sets of buds  

Since we're talking music, here's something that I love (Steven Wilson, Regret #9). Both the keyboard solo (Adam Holzman) and the guitar solo (Govan Guthrie) are simply epic:


----------



## SolaVirtus

o0genesis0o said:


> Yes, I do think so. It took me a while to understand that the example they gave is about someone who needs a replacement screen for M5 DAP.


Thanks for really digging in and getting an answer. Unexpected and much appreciated! 🙏


----------



## samandhi

waynes world said:


> It was the Redux version. I assume that's the remaster? I'll have to check out the OG album too.


Yes they are actually both on the same set (two CDs) where the first one is the remaster, and the second is the remix of the OG album. Enjoy bro! 


waynes world said:


> I was listening with the FF3's. Hard to get them out of my ears! But I did listen to the ST10 BG's for a while (with the bass foams). I'm very happy to have both of those sets of buds


 You picked a couple of really good ones IMO... 


waynes world said:


> Since we're talking music, here's something that I love (Steven Wilson, Regret #9). Both the keyboard solo (Adam Holzman) and the guitar solo (Govan Guthrie) are simply epic:


Oh sweet. I think I have some Steve Wilson somehwere, but I will give this one a listen and see if it comes back to me. Either way, TY!


waynes world said:


> I don't think I had the pleasure of knowing @misery, but he done good with the rec!


I could have sworn that you were on the TWS thread when he was around?! No? I could be wrong though....


----------



## waynes world

samandhi said:


> I could have sworn that you were on the TWS thread when he was around?! No? I could be wrong though....



I've been around here for too long, and I can't say that I have a steel clap memory, so anything is possible!


----------



## samandhi

waynes world said:


> I've been around here for too long, and I can't say that I have a steel clap memory, so anything is possible!


It's all good. My memory sometimes lapses day to day... I guess it could be worse, and it could be from hour to hour.


----------



## samandhi

@waynes world


Spoiler: Off Topic



dang, I just noticed that you still have a set of Amperiors? Do you get them out often? Man it's been a while on those.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

waynes world said:


> I found the "Anchor Drops" album in my JAnonymous tidal playlist and gave it a whirl. Really liked it! Great band!



I'm stoked to learn that you have a playlist of my recs! My vanity knows no bounds...😜


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Amen brother!
> 
> Also, I posted this one before but seems very relevant (once again) to me. I don't normally like this sort of music (though @WoodyLuvr has provided some excellent recs for me to nibble on ), but the textures, and deep bass/bassline, and etc... is truly awe inspiring if bass is what you are seeking (not just an all bass song mind you). It seems as though you might like this track with your new shiny?!  Do be patient as it transitions quite a few times, and it is a rather long song. Also it DOES sound much better in higher resolution:




I just found a CD quality version. I'm looking around to see if I can find it in hi-res. Either way, I'm gonna give it a run when I get home on the Expanses. Thanks for the rec!

I have a bunch of Crush stuff queued up in a list as well bases on your recs. Maybe I need to start a dedicated @samandhi playlist...🤔


----------



## waynes world

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I'm stoked to learn that you have a playlist of my recs! My vanity knows no bounds...😜



Yeah well, keep'em coming! I have a ways to go yet, but I'm really enjoying the tunes


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 28, 2022)

fooltoque said:


> If you haven't yet, try them with some Vulfpeck. The base lines are just so good.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler




Dude! I love me some Vulfpeck and somehow I hadn't even thought of them during my Black Edition sessions. Thanks for the lightbulb moment!

For anyone else who likes to get funky, Vulfpeck is a top shelf rec! Give them a listen and thank @fooltoque later.😎

Edit: P.P.S To anyone checking out Umphrey's McGee @waynes world and @samandhi are right about the Anchor Drops Redux. The reason I always mention the Redux rather than just Anchor Drops is because the remasters on that album are better than the OG version, but you get the OG version as a second disc anyways. So much musical goodness in a single stream or download.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 28, 2022)

waynes world said:


> Yeah well, keep'em coming! I have a ways to go yet, but I'm really enjoying the tunes



Ask and you shall receive! Charlie Griffiths from Haken put out a solo album that's pretty great. If you like epic prog-metal that goes hard the album is called Tiktaalika. It's intense so no bedtime listening, okay kids? 😜😈🤘

Edit: This album sounds HUGE on the FF3s!


----------



## Ronion (Sep 29, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> In *@Ronion*'s defense I am truly beginning to wonder if the pandemic and his being a medical/healthcare professional has had an ill effect on him as he was not like this before. I remember having a lot of nice exchanges with him before. Perhaps due to being overworked and emotionally exhausted his judgement has become clouded; his attitude has darkened; and his patience severely shortened and now easily tested. If you read his earlier posts and replies they were all kindly, extremely informative, fun to read, and quite humble with not an ounce of ego in them.





WoodyLuvr said:


> He is a pianist and a skilled one at that. He kindly shared some SoundCloud pieces with us before that he was composing with/his niece. Gosh, I really miss that *@Ronion*.


The pandemic did have me 2 steps from the great dirt nap a few years ago, but that really has nothing to do with the situation.  Earbuds were really a Great help at that time as were you, Misery and several others who regularly participate in this thread.  I’m 100% that same guy.  I just don’t like being slighted, condescended or patronized.  Never have.  I told you that the first time you did it when you demanded I publicly tell my secrets.  I lost a lot of respect for you then and it never fully recovered.  I’ve lost a lot more now.  You had no good reason then or now to act the way you have though I do admit I intentionally stoked the flames after you put your nose in where it didn’t belong and tried to argue against me.  I don’t like that behavior either.  You’ll respect me or you’ll see this same me.

thank you 🙏, but I am just a mediocre pianist.  I’ve only been paid to record on the acoustic guitar.  I do spend more time on piano than any other instrument by a long shot.  It inspires me to play it the most and I think it’s because I find it most cantankerous.  


WoodyLuvr said:


> Sorry you lost me there... I was simply saying that your "better ingredients" analogy was much better said (exactly what I meant to say) than my "upgraded items". I do hope you took my first post in friendly jest as if I made anything now in under ten minutes, drunk, with no lights I doubt they would look like earbuds at all let alone function properly!


It was just a joke.  It’ll definitely lose its humor if I go through the explanation unfortunately.


Danneq said:


> You seriously expect people to know your post history here on Head fi before they adress you? Because that is how you act.
> 
> You did help me save money by crossing Smabat S20pro off my list, so I thank you for that.


No, I just do expect people to be respectful of others when they comment.  Just think before you post “does that sound like a slight or can that easily be interpreted in a negative light given the context?”  I did try to explain to you politely why your statement was a slight and you tried to say you were just being blunt because you are a Swede/Japanese.  That’s actually when I got annoyed.  Anywhere I’ve ever been when you tell someone that they need to do something to be good enough, wether you know if they’re good or not, it means you don’t think they are good.  You have admitted you don’t know of me, so what would make you think such a thing?  I know plenty of Swedes and Hundreds of Japanese.  I’ve never heard any of them say anything like that unless they are intentionally slighting someone.  It would be different if we knew each other.  Nonetheless, it’s water under the bridge as far as I’m concerned and I’m glad I saved you some money.  Hopefully you can spend that money on something you enjoy like some crazy good ramen or udon. 


BCool said:


> A question for the DIYers, what do you guys use for tuning materials? I've got these horseshoe tuning papers in my basket, and I'm looking at these meshes but I'm not sure what size to go for (I'm gonna order several thicknesses to experiment with) as they come in 4, 4.2, 4.5 and 5mm sizes. I was also looking at this tuning cotton.


I can’t get those links to work, but all the various types and densities of tuning supplies are useful.  You can’t necessarily believe their descriptions as to the effects of using them.  Earbud tuning is like playing whak-a-mole.


Oscarilbo said:


> Well to be fare IEM does to to a certain degree. I think measuring earbuds must have been very frustrating for him


Consistent measurements are far more difficult in a realistic rig.  IEMs are definitely easier.


o0genesis0o said:


> I'm enjoying the "Score" album by 2CELLOS. I practice violin but I like to listen to 2CELLOS and learn their bowing. Their tone is so strong and stable yet sensible. When I try the "strong" part, I tense up and sound like a robot. When I try the "sensible" part, my teacher (in the past, no more teacher nowadays) politely but firmly told me to stand still and play properly


Brother, I should have known you were a musician—and a multi-instrumentalist at that.  Violin is too difficult for me LOL.  Try piano 🎹 The only fretless instrument I play is a sanshin.  In Okinawa they say that a gentleman is someone who knows how to play the sanshin but doesn’t.  (Joke) I love the instrument though and learned to play it there.


----------



## fooltoque

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Dude! I love me some Vulfpeck and somehow I hadn't even thought of them during my Black Edition sessions. Thanks for the lightbulb moment!
> 
> For anyone else who likes to get funky, Vulfpeck is a top shelf rec! Give them a listen and thank @fooltoque later.😎


I first heard them earlier on this year at my favorite seedy meat-skewer bar on the outskirts of Tokyo. At first I was just like, "this is the weirdest music for this kind of place." (It was 'Funky Duck'), but I looked them up and they basically completely changed the music I listen to over the last year. I also made a friend of the part-timer who was in charge of music that night


----------



## Ronion

fooltoque said:


> I first heard them earlier on this year at my favorite seedy meat-skewer bar on the outskirts of Tokyo. At first I was just like, "this is the weirdest music for this kind of place." (It was 'Funky Duck'), but I looked them up and they basically completely changed the music I listen to over the last year. I also made a friend of the part-timer who was in charge of music that night


Getting to see Vulfpeck in Tokyo must have been awesome!  The first time I saw Buddy Guy was there.  I actually consider that the second best show I’ve ever heard.  He put me into a state where I lost all control of myself.  The Tokyo crowd actually played a huge role in that.


----------



## fooltoque

Ronion said:


> Getting to see Vulfpeck in Tokyo must have been awesome!  The first time I saw Buddy Guy was there.  I actually consider that the second best show I’ve ever heard.  He put me into a state where I lost all control of myself.  The Tokyo crowd actually played a huge role in that.


No I wish I got to see them live! I meant that they were playing a CD of Vulfpeck for bar music in the meat-skewer place. I asked who was in charge of the music, and the cook pointed me to this part-timer guy and said, "whenever there is weird music playing, it's always his fault." We had a good chat 

Sorry to mislead


----------



## JAnonymous5150

fooltoque said:


> No I wish I got to see them live! I meant that they were playing a CD of Vulfpeck for bar music in the meat-skewer place. I asked who was in charge of the music, and the cook pointed me to this part-timer guy and said, "whenever there is weird music playing, it's always his fault." We had a good chat
> 
> Sorry to mislead



Don't trip! I thought I misunderstood because I thought you just meant that the worker (your friend) was playing Vulfpeck lol! Turns out I was right for once.


----------



## Ronion

fooltoque said:


> No I wish I got to see them live! I meant that they were playing a CD of Vulfpeck for bar music in the meat-skewer place. I asked who was in charge of the music, and the cook pointed me to this part-timer guy and said, "whenever there is weird music playing, it's always his fault." We had a good chat
> 
> Sorry to mislead


I must have missed that LOL!  Nonetheless, I’m glad you found them.


----------



## Ronion (Sep 29, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Don't trip! I thought I misunderstood because I thought you just meant that the worker (your friend) was playing Vulfpeck lol! Turns out I was right for once.


I didn’t even get that far.  I saw Wulfpeck in a seedy bar in Tokyo and lost my mind for a second.  Sounded like a dream come true.  I literally thought he stumbled into such a situation.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 29, 2022)

P.S. I know most of my recs are music and earbud related, but I am having some ridiculously good Thai food right now and just thought I'd recommend that anyone out there who's hungry find their local Thai joint and order some Pad Woon Sen. Even if it's not on the menu the chef will know how to make it. If they don't, you probably picked the wrong Thai place.

Delicious glass noodles with such good veggies and seasoning. Plus, it goes great with some Arrogant person IPA from Stone Brewing Co. for my American friends if you can track some down. If you can't, something similarly hoppy with that bitter floral bite goes so perfectly with the spices of the Pad Woon Sen. And if you drink enough, you can call back the Thai place and order some Pad Kee Mao! 😂 Get it? Because Pad Kee Mao means "drunkard's noodles."

Such a good night right now...I hope you guys are having as good a night/day as I am!

Edit: The profanity filter won't let me say b a s t a r d which should replace person after Arrogant as the name of the beer.


----------



## Ronion

Unfortunately I still haven’t found great Thai food in the Bay Area.  A couple are certainly good, but So Cal generally has better Thai IMHO.  Even Santa Barbara has great Thai food.  Why is it so hard to find here where the Thai population is much larger?  My bet is that they are engineers instead of restauranteurs, but I really have no idea.  In LA it seems common.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 29, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Unfortunately I still haven’t found great Thai food in the Bay Area.  A couple are certainly good, but So Cal generally has better Thai IMHO.  Even Santa Barbara has great Thai food.  Why is it so hard to find here where the Thai population is much larger?  My bet is that they are engineers instead of restauranteurs, but I really have no idea.  In LA it seems common.



Berkeley Thai House is pretty good! I used to eat there when I went to Cal. My fraternity is right up the street on Channing Circle so it was perfectly placed. Plus, they used to have 2AM to 4AM takeout on Thursday through Saturday for when the bars closed lol! That ended my senior year though.

Edit One last music recfor the night. Look up an LA based neo-prog outfit named Perfect Beings and check out their Self-Titled album from 2014 to start with. Good stuff. Highly recommended!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

*EARBUDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Just got a tracking update and it looks like my Penon BS1 Officials should be here tomorrow. I'm excited to give them a whirl. I have read/heard some things that definitely peaked my interest and after two weeks I'm finally gonna get to see what these bad boys are all about.

I also spent a bit more time with the M4s today with the stock driver and the Super One driver and so far I'm not really clicking with them. They're not bad by any means and I really need to take the time to run a lot more musical genres through them, but so far I'm finding them to be a bit boring I guess. If anyone has source, music, driver, or other relevant suggestions that might help me find their wheelhouse I'd appreciate it.

I should have more listening time for them coming up over the next few days.


----------



## Kenyon

samandhi said:


> I am not sure why the need for you to show up here (from nowhere) and pick apart what I have to say, and (seemingly and or possibly purposely) misunderstand what it is I'm trying to say.


I didn’t realize we needed to be head-fi credentialed to post here… (appeal to authority! come on… we are better than that - this is an anonymous Internet forum after all)

A forum shouldn’t be a popularity contest - for me it is a legitimate place to learn from people who have more experience or knowledge with a particular medium than I myself have. I don’t need to have daily posting numbers as if Head-fi is my job in order to make a valid contribution. 

So I am happy to sit back and passively learn from people like @WoodyLuvr as I appreciate his knowledge and willingness to share this openly to help advance a hobby. As I am an earbud novice I don’t blindly offer information on things I do not know about. When I have enough knowledge of earbuds to make a valuable contribution that may change. Until then - I limit my contribution to topics I am able to add information to.

No one was targeting you - you made an assertion and I offered some factual context. 



samandhi said:


> Saying that masters are usually kept in .wav being one of those. That is an irrelevant statement, because it is still PCM not DSD (in which case there ARE some artists that DO indeed record to DSD).


And what was your point here… that people don’t generally master in DSD due to R2R…? I was unaware that R2R represented such a high proportion of DAC sales instead of it being an expensive niche… Could an alternative reason be due to streaming services only accepting Wav files and hardly any offering DSD…? Or many DAWs not working with DSD directly…? Hence the non-“irrelevant” clarification. 

Yes - DSD mastering also happens (in smaller and smaller numbers) but I didn’t feel like I needed to clarify that as that is exactly what you stated in your post and that part was correct. 


samandhi said:


> My OG post was not inaccurate (other than the one item I apologized for) and we could argue day in and day out, citing opposing information until "the cows come home" (of which I am sure there is an abundant amount on either side, just like the argument whether cables make the difference in sound or not, for instance), and it would solve nothing.


What information have you cited…? - I am always happy to further educate myself but it seems to just have been broad sweeping statements or analogies that you have provided. 

Further, these are not really points to argue, it’s factual information or where results could be subjective I stated YMMV. I am not really sure I said anything controversial since you seem to agree  with most of what I said when you write it out as an analogy but seem to want to suggest you don’t solely as I clarified your point… 


samandhi said:


> Why would you bother to ask me for a repost of a link that you are only determined to refute to begin with?


Please, do not pre-judge everyone by your own standards or misconceptions. What do they call assumption - the mother of all *** ups…

I asked because I genuinely came here to educate myself so I was actually interested in checking it out / why I didn’t ignore it (I would hope you would have browsed at least, the links I posted to you) and asked you if you could repost it. Good to know you are also clairvoyant and understand my motivations better than myself though…


samandhi said:


> Maybe you should have this argument with the creator of the Neutron app (which is where I pulled the information from). https://neutroncode.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6143


Why would I argue about something I have now multiple times stated solves a technical shortcoming. Are you actually reading the posts…


samandhi said:


> Another "for instance", I could be passive aggressive and tell you that DSD is actually NOT a transmission/playback format (which appears to be the sort of thing you are doing with all that I say). It was created as a storage format for archived recordings, in which case I would be correct. Then you would say "it may have begun its life as such, but is no longer used in that manner", in which case you would also be right. There are "unmeasurable" characteristics about sound that can neither be qualified nor quantified whether you spout quotes from others or are an engineer yourself.


Just because someone disagrees with you or provides information on something doesn’t mean you need to shut down. It’s OK to not know everything or be incorrect on something. Being open minded is hardly a problem.


samandhi said:


> Sometimes math DOES indeed get in the way of being correct where sound is concerned.


How do you know you are correct… 
Bold assertion.

Because so far people can’t use science, can’t use evidence and they also better not post information or opinion in any forum you are a member of unless they have at least contributed an arbitrary number of posts regardless of topic and they most importantly agree with you… 


samandhi said:


> I am not going to continue this (pointless) conversation with you (especially parts where you try and "school" me about what a lossless file is and such, as an example).


I am sorry you feel this way. That was not my intention and that is why I constantly qualified (where appropriate). I was not attacking you personally in any way. Providing information is not schooling someone - it is just providing information. Please don’t project.


samandhi said:


> If you feel the need to correct (with your version of whatever it is that you are arguing) feel free to hop on over to the "Sound Science" threads.


Happy right here. Sorry if that triggers you - you may need to find a new safe space 


samandhi said:


> I hear they love arguing with each other over there. I don't need to spend all day/every day doing a write-up just to apply added knowledge to back up @JAnonymous5150's post, which was in reply to @o0genesis0o's query.
> 
> I came to this thread to get away from elitists that think they are better or like to "flex" or show off by trying to discredit others with three-page write-ups.


Your not honestly complaining about a post length - how long have you been in this thread - there have been some absurdly long posts here and no one ever cares. 

Sharing knowledge is hardly being elitist. 
Please stop attributing everything to malice and taking things so personal.

As you can see the OP actually continued engaging in a completely normal manner and my reply to him was cordial where I asked about the sources to see if I could add to his individual query and he has subsequently replied listing them. Why is that “flexing” but your forum contribution seemingly isn’t…? 

I came here to get factual information about this hobby - seems we are both disappointed. 


samandhi said:


> So please don't come in here and try and "talk down" to me as if I were a child that doesn't know any better


Wow… daddy issues???

Is that not exactly what you are trying to do to me here - “Don’t come in here and try and “talk down” to me”
What makes you so special…?


samandhi said:


> and cite whatever statistics that make you seem 100% right. You're not, and (as mentioned earlier) I could find opposing citations that would oppose some of what you say.


Please do, as I said before please excuse me and correct me if I am wrong, I am always happy to educate myself further. But again what is it we are disagreeing on other than I offered some technical clarifications and you have become offended that your authority has been seemingly questioned. 


samandhi said:


> I'm not saying you are totally wrong, you're not.


Not what you said above - notice that I have never stated “you are wrong” anywhere in my posts.


samandhi said:


> But you are focusing on something that is actually irrelevant (not pertinent) the the actual conversation.


The original question was your statement responding to the OP stating that sources sound differently and he doesn’t understand. You provided some suggestions and I clarified them. 

Maybe ask the OP if it was pertinent since he has responded to it. Just because you don’t see it as having value does not mean that everyone is the same. By the same token I could have said the same about your posts about colleges, life stories or music suggestions you have made in this thread since they are irrelevant to most people - but that is not how the earbud community or thread works - or so I thought. 


samandhi said:


> You have yourself a great day sir/madam!
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


Grow up

Just wanting to listen or talk solely to people that agree with you makes a person’s worldview very small - SMH.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Kenyon said:


> I didn’t realize we needed to be head-fi credentialed to post here… (appeal to authority! come on… we are better than that - this is an anonymous Internet forum after all)
> 
> A forum shouldn’t be a popularity contest - for me it is a legitimate place to learn from people who have more experience or knowledge with a particular medium than I myself have. I don’t need to have daily posting numbers as if Head-fi is my job in order to make a valid contribution.
> 
> ...



I don’t know how blocking works in head-fi (never used), but I don’t think he can read what you wrote, mate. Maybe let it go?  

What brings you to this thread? Looking to buy something or build something?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

For anyone wondering if the TRN EMXs have the same bery driver as the Fiio FF3s, I asked Fiio's support and was told by the rep that they'd inquire with their R&D and production teams and get back to me.

Well, I finally got a response wherein the rep says that the Beryllium driver used in the FF3 is a Fiio in-house design created by their R&D people specifically for the FF series flathead project and that it hasn't been licensed for use by any other manufacturer in their earbuds.

That seems like a pretty definitive answer. I haven't heard the EMXs so I don't know if this parallel was drawn based on sound or just because it's a Bery driver with the same diameter. If the later is the case, Bery drivers have become super common so it doesn't surprise me that there might be more than one model floating around in a given diameter. If the comparison is because the EMXs purportedly sound similar then I guess that's just a coincidence if Fiio is to be believed and I have no reason not to believe them.

Anyways, just figured I'd share the info/answer for anyone who's interested.


----------



## Danneq (Sep 29, 2022)

Ronion said:


> No, I just do expect people to be respectful of others when they comment.  Just think before you post “does that sound like a slight or can that easily be interpreted in a negative light given the context?”  I did try to explain to you politely why your statement was a slight and you tried to say you were just being blunt because you are a Swede/Japanese.  That’s actually when I got annoyed.  Anywhere I’ve ever been when you tell someone that they need to do something to be good enough, wether you know if they’re good or not, it means you don’t think they are good.  You have admitted you don’t know of me, so what would make you think such a thing?  I know plenty of Swedes and Hundreds of Japanese.  I’ve never heard any of them say anything like that unless they are intentionally slighting someone.  It would be different if we knew each other.  Nonetheless, it’s water under the bridge as far as I’m concerned and I’m glad I saved you some money.  Hopefully you can spend that money on something you enjoy like some crazy good ramen or udon.



Off topic, so best to keep it in a 



Spoiler



I meant nothing disrespectful by the comment and had no idea if you were experienced or a beginner. Swedes can be a bit unpolished sometimes, and perhaps the internet enhances that. I was more surprised by your reaction. Anthropology and comparative cultural studies was my major at university and I find the concept of national characters interesting (I do not work with Anthropology but still have an interest in that general field). National characters are not based on exact science and do not have anything to do directly with Antropology or Ethnography, but there is still some truth to them when you start looking at them.

You are probably familiar with the Japanese terms tatemae and honne. In Swedish we have expressions like "knyta näven i fickan" ("make a fist in your pocket" -> even if someone becomes irritated they keep it to themselves and do not show it to others). A Japanese might have replied "Hai, gambarimasu!" to my comment. A Swede might have replied "Thanks. But actually I have been doing this for a while. I'm really not a beginner." In both Japanese and Swedish culture keeping the harmony in the group is important. Admitted, Swedes are much more socially inept than Japanese.

For both Japanese and Swedes, traditionally the group has come first and the individual second. In northern Europe you historically have had to be a part of the group to survive. Being ostracized could mean death during winter, and ostracism and social exclusion is still common as a form of informal punishment in groups. Americans are more focused on the individual while Japanese and Swedes are more focused on the group. Traditionally that is. With people being able to meet people from other countries and experience other cultures and ways of thinking that slowly change how people are. Also cultural influences from for example popular culture such as TV and movies. For example: traditionally when getting married, a groom and bride in Sweden have always walked up to the altar together. They are grown people who have chosen to marry each other. More and more young people have grown up with American TV-shows and when getting married, it is not unusual among young people to have the father of the bride hand her over to her groom. That symbolic "daughter belonging to her father and then to her husband" has been a strange concept for Swedes and still is for most people over 40, but is slowly becoming normal for younger generations.

Anyway, my point with bringing up Japanese and Swedes was that in my experience and knowledge a Japanese or Swede would have corrected me in another way and I am used to more subtle ways to correct me in case I do something that can be considered wrong or insensitive.

Thanks. I fear that the money I save on the Smabat and the 7HZ Beatles will be spent on something else. Should save it for the coming months, that might become difficult for us in Europe...

Being a vegetarian for over 25 years has made eating out in Japan a bit difficult. I usually accept to consume udon that uses dashi as soup base when in Japan. Not much to do about that since there are not any alternatives. This last trip this summer I noticed that there are a bit more vegetarian options than before. Mos Burger has started to sell a "plant based" burger (stupid name for vegetarian burger). Royal Host has got a vegetarian curry. You can find vegetarian soy based fake meat even in supermarkets (I still prefer fried tofu or natto to fake soy meat while in Japan).


----------



## Danneq

JAnonymous5150 said:


> For anyone wondering if the TRN EMXs have the same bery driver as the Fiio FF3s, I asked Fiio's support and was told by the rep that they'd inquire with their R&D and production teams and get back to me.
> 
> Well, I finally got a response wherein the rep says that the Beryllium driver used in the FF3 is a Fiio in-house design created by their R&D people specifically for the FF series flathead project and that it hasn't been licensed for use by any other manufacturer in their earbuds.
> 
> ...



I would be disappointed if the FF3 sounds like EMX. I can only describe the EMX as lacking body. The instruments appear more like projections than having an actual physical presence. Different foams make no difference. Perhaps a silicon ring might? But even pushing them into my ears does not give the instruments more weight.
I do not really believe in difference in cables, but ordered a cheap copper cable to see if there is any difference from the silver plated copper cable that was included. Better safe than sorry?


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> For anyone wondering if the TRN EMXs have the same bery driver as the Fiio FF3s, I asked Fiio's support and was told by the rep that they'd inquire with their R&D and production teams and get back to me.
> 
> Well, I finally got a response wherein the rep says that the Beryllium driver used in the FF3 is a Fiio in-house design created by their R&D people specifically for the FF series flathead project and that it hasn't been licensed for use by any other manufacturer in their earbuds.
> 
> ...



Interesting that Fiio doesn’t just ignore your question about sourcing of their drivers. It shows their confidence in their craft, I presume.



Danneq said:


> I would be disappointed if the FF3 sounds like EMX. I can only describe the EMX as lacking body. The instruments appear more like projections than having an actual physical presence. Different foams make no difference. Perhaps a silicon ring might? But even pushing them into my ears does not give the instruments more weight.
> I do not really believe in difference in cables, but ordered a cheap copper cable to see if there is any difference from the silver plated copper cable that was included. Better safe than sorry?



If you were somewhere nearby, I would measure that EMX for you. I guess it would show a lot of upper midrange and little lower midrange. “Female poison” tuning that some Chi-Fi companies like, I guess?


----------



## Danneq (Sep 29, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> If you were somewhere nearby, I would measure that EMX for you. I guess it would show a lot of upper midrange and little lower midrange. “Female poison” tuning that some Chi-Fi companies like, I guess?



At least earbuds with more focus on upper midrange or treble lends some sort of "body" to the instruments. Celsus Gramo One, Rose Mojito and Moondrop Liebesleid were a bit too sharp for my liking and I sold them all (for some strange reason I bought a second pair of Liebesleid this summer to give them a second chance - but I still feel the same about them). EMX has also got a sort of strange metallic type of sheen over the music. Cannot describe it in any other way. It makes instruments not sound natural and combined with poor fit there is no real bass presence.


----------



## Kenyon

o0genesis0o said:


> I don’t know how blocking works in head-fi (never used), but I don’t think he can read what you wrote, mate. Maybe let it go?
> 
> What brings you to this thread? Looking to buy something or build something?


Hey chap - no worries as long as it’s there for others to see - I feel content. And hopefully now we can get back to buds.

I will check out your source issue and come back on that if your still interested…

Long time reader of the thread if the truth be told. Already done a couple of builds but once you start it seems that you are then always in the process of building another. 

Also just happy to see what buds are rated and/or new. 

Serratus is October’s pick up.
Interested in trying out the new shells on Rikubuds mk2 sets so will probs pick up:
1) Assassin 2 for the new shell as it seems most new Grand editions will use it
2) Alter Rider 1 to compare against my Grand Rider 1 

Fiio FF3 in 11.11 sale

Anything you looking at or just focusing on the building?


----------



## o0genesis0o

Kenyon said:


> Hey chap - no worries as long as it’s there for others to see - I feel content. And hopefully now we can get back to buds.
> 
> I will check out your source issue and come back on that if your still interested…
> 
> ...



Ooh, Serratus! If FF5 craps out, that one would be my priority. 

I have a full set of Smabat M4 coming in a couple days (finger crossed that the postoffice would not lose my package again). I plan to do a thorough analysis and review of that set, so it’s going to consume most of my hobby time. 

My goal with DIY is to build the most resolving and “large sounding” buds possible. Essentially, I dream of a more comfortable and more resolving FF3 without losing that beautiful bass and midrange.


----------



## FranQL

A simple and cheap 32 Ohm, but with exceptional performance, I love them, and the more I use them, the addiction increases.


----------



## shenshen

ian91 said:


> I consider myself a lurker in this thread, largely because I don't get much time to post, but I enjoy reading the regular exchanges that happen here and while this isn't directed at anyone in particular, I feel we need to inject some positivity!
> 
> What are we enjoying this week? Any new buds or bud-related paraphernalia?


hey fellow lurker

somewhat recently received a pair of berserker 2's from @RikudouGoku and have been daily driving them since. ever since i went all in on earbuds, i hadn't realized how much i missed the bass quantities i could get from other form factors. this set scratches an itch none of my earbuds can and its no slouch in other sq departments. super enjoyable pair, easy recommendation.


----------



## ian91

shenshen said:


> hey fellow lurker
> 
> somewhat recently received a pair of berserker 2's from @RikudouGoku and have been daily driving them since. ever since i went all in on earbuds, i hadn't realized how much i missed the bass quantities i could get from other form factors. this set scratches an itch none of my earbuds can and its no slouch in other sq departments. super enjoyable pair, easy recommendation.



Hey man, this is very useful! I was actually eyeing up the Beserker 2 and a few others from @RikudouGoku. Saving my cash for my next prospect!


----------



## shenshen

ian91 said:


> Hey man, this is very useful! I was actually eyeing up the Beserker 2 and a few others from @RikudouGoku. Saving my cash for my next prospect!


look forward to hearing your thoughts once you get your hands on a pair!

the recent boom in diy has been incredibly inspiring


----------



## fooltoque

o0genesis0o said:


> Ooh, Serratus! If FF5 craps out, that one would be my priority.


I've been thinking the same. It sounds like the Serratus would be a great complement to my otherwise base oriented lineup.


----------



## ian91

shenshen said:


> look forward to hearing your thoughts once you get your hands on a pair!
> 
> the recent boom in diy has been incredibly inspiring



It really has. Good ears, collective insight and individual ingenuity are driving things forward at a pace. I'm looking forward to see how things develop. The Serratus and Alpha have been on constant rotation for me. Serratus for holography and resolution to enjoy complex modern stuff and the Alpha for timbre and noteweight for more moody jazz. The eargain on both is just right for my tolerance, just enough sweet clarity but nothing too shouty. Heaven!


----------



## o0genesis0o

FranQL said:


> A simple and cheap 32 Ohm, but with exceptional performance, I love them, and the more I use them, the addiction increases.



Oh wow. The matching between the earpieces and the plug is so great. I like the earthy tone cable matching with the leather cable wrap thingy. The red and blue gems (?) to distinguish left and right buds are great idea too. Inspiring 

Can those 32 ohm drivers compete with high impedance ones?


----------



## fogside (Sep 29, 2022)

Danneq said:


> At least earbuds with more focus on upper midrange or treble lends some sort of "body" to the instruments. Celsus Gramo One, Rose Mojito and Moondrop Liebesleid were a bit too sharp for my liking and I sold them all (for some strange reason I bought a second pair of Liebesleid this summer to give them a second chance - but I still feel the same about them). EMX has also got a sort of strange metallic type of sheen over the music. Cannot describe it in any other way. It makes instruments not sound natural and combined with poor fit there is no real bass presence.


In your case emx dont fit into your ears and your impressions are not true.if emx fit perfectly they has body and lot of subbass and especially on balance.


----------



## Danneq

fogside said:


> In your case emx dont fit into your ears and your impressions are not true.is emx fit perfectly they has body and lot of subbass and especially on balance.



Yeah, that might be the case. Perceived bass on earbuds depend a lot on fit. I've now tried with silicon rings as well. Both silicon rings only and silicon rings with thin VE foams over.
No problems with fit for MX500 or PK shells. No fit problems with the Moondrop earbuds or Rose Mojito. But the EMX buggers do not seem get along with my ears, in more than one way.


----------



## fogside

Danneq said:


> Yeah, that might be the case. Perceived bass on earbuds depend a lot on fit. I've now tried with silicon rings as well. Both silicon rings only and silicon rings with thin VE foams over.
> No problems with fit for MX500 or PK shells. No fit problems with the Moondrop earbuds or Rose Mojito. But the EMX buggers do not seem get along with my ears, in more than one way.


In my ears don't fit mx500 like shells


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Unfortunately I still haven’t found great Thai food in the Bay Area.  A couple are certainly good, but So Cal generally has better Thai IMHO.  Even Santa Barbara has great Thai food.  Why is it so hard to find here where the Thai population is much larger?  My bet is that they are engineers instead of restauranteurs, but I really have no idea.  In LA it seems common.


Unfortunately, there are no Thai restaurants to be found in or around the area I live...  I would have to drive at least an hour one way (???).


o0genesis0o said:


> I don’t know how blocking works in head-fi (never used), but I don’t think he can read what you wrote, mate. Maybe let it go?
> 
> What brings you to this thread? Looking to buy something or build something?


You are correct insomuch as I can't see what an ignored person has written. I can see when they are quoted though. 

My apologies to all that I did not ignore this person to begin with. Normally it wouldn't bother me to have a "civil" debate on facts (or to even learn something I may or may not have known previously), which is what I thought this was going to be at first, but from the start this person was very condescending, and was seemingly taking things either out of context, or deliberately misunderstanding in order to argue their point or twist statements to fit the argument. It is people like this that made @miserybeforethemusic end up leaving Head-Fi for good. 

I will not! 

Anyhow, I also forgot to comment on what you said previously; and that is that I would listen to your DIY buds even now. I DO think you will advance in your knowledge of DIY, but I'll bet that they already sound really good. 

Also, I really liked your harmonica recorded works. Do you have anything recorded with the Violin?

@Ronion In the same vein, is there still access on the cloud of your recorded piano playing? I would also love to hear that!


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> Also, I really liked your harmonica recorded works. Do you have anything recorded with the Violin?



I recorded one video for my mom’s birthday. She is mom so she likes anything I make. My violin sounds quite poor, I can assure you


----------



## jeejack

FranQL said:


> A simple and cheap 32 Ohm, but with exceptional performance, I love them, and the more I use them, the addiction increases.


You move fast, hermano 🍻


----------



## Ronion (Sep 29, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Unfortunately, there are no Thai restaurants to be found in or around the area I live...  I would have to drive at least an hour one way (???).
> 
> You are correct insomuch as I can't see what an ignored person has written. I can see when they are quoted though.
> 
> ...


https://on.soundcloud.com/FxJdn

this is the first movement of the first Sonatina for piano trio I wrote.  It’s all done on an iPad sound don’t expect studio quality

and the piano part for the 5th movement of my first Sonata is there as well:
https://on.soundcloud.com/Z7JdY


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> I recorded one video for my mom’s birthday. She is mom so she likes anything I make. My violin sounds quite poor, I can assure you


Well, I guarantee it isn't any worse than me.... 


Ronion said:


> https://on.soundcloud.com/FxJdn
> 
> this is the first movement of the first Sonatina for piano trio I wrote.  It’s all done on an iPad sound don’t expect studio quality
> 
> ...


Splendid! I will give it a listen later.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Well, I guarantee it isn't any worse than me....
> 
> Splendid! I will give it a listen later.



I was lucky enough to have had @Ronion share his piano works with me a while back. Let me just say, whether the tracks are studio quality or not, the talent is easily heard. I have always been pretty inept at playing the piano/keys, but I have been around talented pianists since I was born and I know when I'm hearing talent.

@o0genesis0o : Dude, your harmonica tracks/albums are damn good as well! I had heard you mention that you play the violin before, but I had never seen you mention your talents on the harmonica. To me, making the harmonica sound like actual playing rather than improvised noise-making is pretty difficult. I have listened to supposed professionals whose "playing" I can't stand because of the fact that it lacks coherent structure. Not so with you, my friend.

Thanks to both of you guys for sharing your musical chops with us. It's so cool to be around two such talented individual. And not just musically talented either...


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 29, 2022)

To @4ceratops just in case you're interested. I had some materials I needed to order from AliExpress for a pair of over ears I'm putting together as a DIY project. Your post the other day asking about the titanium version of the NSC Audio LCP buds I have been talking about got me thinking that I really should give them a shot. As I'm sure anyone who read this thread over the last couple months could tell you, my curiosity is a strong factor in purchases so I ordered a pair of the titanium driver buds.

If you'd like, I'll do my best to try to remember to keep you posted about how I like them. If, however, you already ordered a pair for yourself, I'd love to compare notes.

Edit: Turns out it was @drewbadour who was asking about the titanium version. Sorry, I got the wrong person the first time, but the offer to keep you posted if you're interested in how the titanium version of the NSC Audio buds stands. Just let me know!


----------



## 4ceratops

JAnonymous5150 said:


> To @4ceratops just in case you're interested. I had some materials I needed to order from AliExpress for a pair of over ears I'm putting together as a DIY project. Your post the other day asking about the titanium version of the NSC Audio LCP buds I have been talking about got me thinking that I really should give them a shot. As I'm sure anyone who read this thread over the last couple months could tell you, my curiosity is a strong factor in purchases so I ordered a pair of the titanium driver buds.
> 
> If you'd like, I'll do my best to try to remember to keep you posted about how I like them. If, however, you already ordered a pair for yourself, I'd love to compare notes.


Thanks for the interest and for the info, but the titanium version was asked about by another user in this thread. I've become interested in the LCP version, which you own and have spoken highly of. I couldn't resist and ordered them 4 days ago. Some unoccupied balanced mmxc cable is still hiding in the dark recesses of my accessory box, so all I can do is wait. Have a nice day, good hearing and lots of great music.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

4ceratops said:


> Thanks for the interest and for the info, but the titanium version was asked about by another user in this thread. I've become interested in the LCP version, which you own and have spoken highly of. I couldn't resist and ordered them 4 days ago. Some unoccupied balanced mmxc cable is still hiding in the dark recesses of my accessory box, so all I can do is wait. Have a nice day, good hearing and lots of great music.



Sorry, I'll have to look back and figure out who was asking about the titanium version.

Anyways, you have to let me know how you like the 80 LCPs. I think they're pretty a pretty sweet set of buds and I'm always down to compare notes. I can't remember who off the top of my head, but someone else on this thread picked them up and ended up diggin' them, as well.


----------



## Ronion

Unfortunately I can’t get @o0genesis0o ’s harmonica recording to work on my phone.  Hopefully I’ll be able to hear them tonight on the computer, but I will be working late.  My lunch break is now over, but let me just throw this out here: the PK2 drivers have the best vintage sound and the PK shell is as comfortable as the come.  Too bad the MX500 took over as the go to shell IMO.  I mean it’s a great shell for tuning, but the fit is more challenging.  Not horrible, but definitely not as good for me ears.


----------



## FranQL (Sep 29, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Oh wow. The matching between the earpieces and the plug is so great. I like the earthy tone cable matching with the leather cable wrap thingy. The red and blue gems (?) to distinguish left and right buds are great idea too. Inspiring
> 
> Can those 32 ohm drivers compete with high impedance ones?



I have a weakness for high impedance, I have a fuller sound and better results, but I am always doing things and experimenting, I try practically everything regarding bud drivers (except families of exactly the same drivers with different impedances, there I buy the highest usually).

In this case I am fully satisfied, they are great, although they have a lot of work, but even so, they do not manage to contribute what I experience when listening to 600 Ohm. That does not mean that the others should be discarded, there are very good DIY drivers on the market and my tastes / preferences sure that they are not universal.


----------



## 4ceratops

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Sorry, I'll have to look back and figure out who was asking about the titanium version.
> 
> Anyways, you have to let me know how you like the 80 LCPs. I think they're pretty a pretty sweet set of buds and I'm always down to compare notes. I can't remember who off the top of my head, but someone else on this thread picked them up and ended up diggin' them, as well.


Greetings again and I'll be sure to share my impressions.


----------



## shenshen

and so it begins

basic 64ti blue dot build w/ "stock" tuning foam


----------



## o0genesis0o

shenshen said:


> and so it begins
> 
> basic 64ti blue dot build w/ "stock" tuning foam



Cool soldering iron. Could share the link of the driver, if you don’t mind?


----------



## shenshen

o0genesis0o said:


> Cool soldering iron. Could share the link of the driver, if you don’t mind?


thanks! used to design and build keyboards so im just using the same ts100 

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mPsfhtI


----------



## o0genesis0o

shenshen said:


> thanks! used to design and build keyboards so im just using the same ts100
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mPsfhtI


Design as well? That’s cool. I only buy hot swap boards and focus on lubing and modding. I haven’t needed to buy any more board after getting KBDfan 67 lite and applying PE foam mod.

Thanks for sharing the driver. Looking forward for your impressions (especially against the Andromeda)


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 29, 2022)

I'm listening to the Penon Audio BS1 Officials right now and I am quite impressed! It makes me wonder why they don't get talked about very much or recommended all that often. 

They have a wonderful sound sig that's pretty balanced with plenty of energy and extension at both ends. The soundstage immediately grabbed my attention for how well it projects sound outside or the head and has a nice sense of depth. Width seems to be fairly common in earbuds, IME, but depth and height to get that truly holographic or 3D feel is found much less often.

Often times when I get a new earbud/IEM/headphone one of the things I will do to assess versatility is just let a bunch of my favorite tracks on Qobuz play on shuffle because I listen to a pretty wide variety of genres, sub-genres, and styles. The BS1s are holding up great with everything from blues to indie to jazz to orchestral pieces to metal, prog, and even electronica. They just handled the sensual lushness of Julie London's iconic Sway and the screaming, speed and thrash metal of Five Finger Death Punch's cover of Feul back to back with equal vigor and aplomb. 

Just think of how absolutely divergent the sounds are on those two songs. There aren't very many earbuds I have tried that I could throw on, listen to both tracks, and be happy their ability to render both. For now I won't go any further because I have a lot more exploratory listening to do before really getting to the nitty gritty of what these earbuds are all about, but I will say that I'm certainly looking forward to continued sessions with the BS1 officials for sure!

Gotta love it when a purchase works out so well!

Edit: I should mention that the build quality and aesthetics of the BS1 Official buds are absolutely top notch. The 8 core silver and copper braided cable is gorgeous and supple. The shells are very comfy and fit my ears very well and the blue and red strain reliefs are very nice. I read some people saying the cable was too heavy for them and had a tendency to mess with the proper fit, but I'm not having any such trouble and I wore these while setting up a drum set and then micing the set for recording which involves plenty of moving and bending.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> I think 5 or 6 years. I was living by myself the first time, abroad. The PhD did not go well so I distracted myself by watching an anime show about a high school girl who was given a magic violin and had to participate in a music competition against elite music students. The show had a lot of educational bits teaching classical music, so I suddenly wanted to play one of those instruments. I was leaning towards flute or clarinet, but remember I always wanted to mimic the violin sound when playing harmonica, so I picked violin.
> 
> I used to play harmonica in the past, actually. Recorded a couple “albums” but I lost the source files. Luckily some friends / fans / (creeps?) kept the original MP3 and uploaded them to Vietnamese spotify knock-off. (Here and here). I was such a w*nker with inflated ego back then to record these “albums”
> 
> To bring this back to buds: these “albums” sound horrible with all of my buds, btw. I used to double checked them with laptop speakers


Awesome!  That’s a real talent/skill.  I hope you are still playing.


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I was lucky enough to have had @Ronion share his piano works with me a while back. Let me just say, whether the tracks are studio quality or not, the talent is easily heard. I have always been pretty inept at playing the piano/keys, but I have been around talented pianists since I was born and I know when I'm hearing talent.
> 
> @o0genesis0o : Dude, your harmonica tracks/albums are damn good as well! I had heard you mention that you play the violin before, but I had never seen you mention your talents on the harmonica. To me, making the harmonica sound like actual playing rather than improvised noise-making is pretty difficult. I have listened to supposed professionals whose "playing" I can't stand because of the fact that it lacks coherent structure. Not so with you, my friend.
> 
> Thanks to both of you guys for sharing your musical chops with us. It's so cool to be around two such talented individual. And not just musically talented either...


Thank you 🙏 so much.  I only wish we could hear your stuff brother.  I’m absolutely sure my brain would sizzle.  There’s a chance I have but….

It’s strange to me that we have so many musicians in an earbud thread.  I was thinking about this today: from a sound quality and comfort standpoint, it’s really hard to beat good buds.  Even though it’s such a niche market.  My buddy plays in a band and he is now completely sold on the earbuds I gave him.  I see him at lunch and he’s out in the courtyard with my buds in his ears.  Every time I see him he’s telling how awesome they are and today he wonder why only Apple makes buds and they “suck”.   I showed him how many were available in China and I’m fairly certain I fried his egg.  He thinks they are a perfect transducers for any type of music barring hip hop. He’s not a hip hop guy though so it’s no big deal to him.  I’m building him another set from the 130Be to see what he thinks of those.


----------



## shenshen

o0genesis0o said:


> Design as well? That’s cool. I only buy hot swap boards and focus on lubing and modding. I haven’t needed to buy any more board after getting KBDfan 67 lite and applying PE foam mod.
> 
> Thanks for sharing the driver. Looking forward for your impressions (especially against the Andromeda)


nothing wrong with that, as long you enjoy how it looks and types, that's all that matters!

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255800033724565.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt&_randl_shipto=US

they can be had for cheaper from here, i bought these parts a while ago when i didnt know anything.

first impressions are very positive. for a blind pick driver, i think i got pretty lucky. bass quantity and texture is pretty incredible here and makes for a very fun listen. mids are a tad recessed, but upper-mids from female vocals come through a bit stronger. highs have good presence and sparkle, nothing shrill or piercing. i think separation and imaging could be better, but what's there isn't bad. overall, a bit taken aback by the results with minimal tuning. i've heard these drivers don't require too much in the way of tuning and my experience matches up.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I'm listening to the Penon Audio BS1 Officials right now and I am quite impressed! It makes me wonder why they don't get talked about very much or recommended all that often.
> 
> They have a wonderful sound sig that's pretty balanced with plenty of energy and extension at both ends. The soundstage immediately grabbed my attention for how well it projects sound outside or the head and has a nice sense of depth. Width seems to be fairly common in earbuds, IME, but depth and height to get that truly holographic or 3D feel is found much less often.
> 
> ...


Very nice find, it sounds like. Is it a fixed cable or removable?


Ronion said:


> Thank you 🙏 so much.  I only wish we could hear your stuff brother.  I’m absolutely sure my brain would sizzle.  There’s a chance I have but….
> 
> It’s strange to me that we have so many musicians in an earbud thread.  I was thinking about this today: from a sound quality and comfort standpoint, it’s really hard to beat good buds.  Even though it’s such a niche market.  My buddy plays in a band and he is now completely sold on the earbuds I gave him.  I see him at lunch and he’s out in the courtyard with my buds in his ears.  Every time I see him he’s telling how awesome they are and today he wonder why only Apple makes buds and they “suck”.   I showed him how many were available in China and I’m fairly certain I fried his egg.  He thinks they are a perfect transducers for any type of music barring hip hop. He’s not a hip hop guy though so it’s no big deal to him.  I’m building him another set from the 130Be to see what he thinks of those.


Sorry, bro. I still have not had time to give it a listen, but I have it bookmarked and on the "to listen to" list... 

I know I was blown away the first time I heard some good buds (years away from the old school "crappy" buds). I just couldn't resolve in my noggin' how they could sound so darned good. 

BTW, I have a couple pairs that I think sound pretty good with hip-hop (though certainly nothing as full as good IEMs or headphones). Also, I don't listen it all THAT often, but often enough to think they are not bad at all IMO. I think they have come a long way with deep bass even in the 2 years I have been on this thread.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Very nice find, it sounds like. Is it a fixed cable or removable?



Fixed cable. I picked these bad boys up in mint condition with very little time on them for £55/$62 from a seller right here on head-fi. I was actually going to order them for their retail price with my next Penon order, but I ran across these in the classifieds before I had occasion to place said order so it worked out perfectly. That said, if I had picked these up for the $99/$109 retail price I would still be enthusiastically happy about the purchase as they're well worth that kinda scratch, IMO.

Based on things that I read, I was expecting a good, but somewhat pedestrian earbud. That's the furthest thing from what I have on my hands with these buds. I can't picture too many people not enjoying this sound sig and the attendant technical performance. I don't think I'm easily impressed or a pushover, but these BS1s have me genuinely impressed with what Penon accomplished here.

Let me put it this way, the Shozy BKs seem to be pretty popular. The BS1s offer similar technical performance with a sound sig that presents as a less warm, but still lush, full, and natural. All of that for $55-$65 less depending on if you go balanced or not seems like a pretty darn good deal, right?

Now there are plenty of differences between the BS1s and the BKs that both will have an honored place in my collection so I'm not necessarily saying one is better than or a replacement for the other, just that they have performance thats reminiscent of one another which makes the BS1 a good buy in my book.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Fixed cable. I picked these bad boys up in mint condition with very little time on them for £55/$62 from a seller right here on head-fi. I was actually going to order them for their retail price with my next Penon order, but I ran across these in the classifieds before I had occasion to place said order so it worked out perfectly. That said, if I had picked these up for the $99/$109 retail price I would still be enthusiastically happy about the purchase as they're well worth that kinda scratch, IMO.
> 
> Based on things that I read, I was expecting a good, but somewhat pedestrian earbud. That's the furthest thing from what I have on my hands with these buds. I can't picture too many people not enjoying this sound sig and the attendant technical performance. I don't think I'm easily impressed or a pushover, but these BS1s have me genuinely impressed with what Penon accomplished here.
> 
> ...


Well, having spoken with you a time or two,  it seems as though you haven't picked too many "clunkers" to this point. You must have some kind of earbud ESP or something. LOL

But, yes that seems a mighty good deal to me, and again luck seems to have favored you. Maybe I should have you pick my next lottery numbers.  Well, OK. I guess you have to actually play the lottery to win it don't you?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Well, having spoken with you a time or two,  it seems as though you haven't picked too many "clunkers" to this point. You must have some kind of earbud ESP or something. LOL
> 
> But, yes that seems a mighty good deal to me, and again luck seems to have favored you. Maybe I should have you pick my next lottery numbers.  Well, OK. I guess you have to actually play the lottery to win it don't you?



That's actually because I tend to post about the ones I like and just let the others quietly move on. I have certainly gotten to the point that I have a much better idea of what will fit me well and what won't, but in the grand scheme of things I think I'm about 50/50.

For instance, what you didn't hear over the last week or so was me not enjoying the Fiio EM5s much, really disliking the Moondrop Liebsleid (sp? LOL), and my quick flip of the VE Zen LL and Zen 2.0. i guess you might say my "batting average" might appear a bit inflated as a result, huh? 😉


----------



## jeejack

4ceratops said:


> Thanks for the interest and for the info, but the titanium version was asked about by another user in this thread. I've become interested in the LCP version, which you own and have spoken highly of. I couldn't resist and ordered them 4 days ago. Some unoccupied balanced mmxc cable is still hiding in the dark recesses of my accessory box, so all I can do is wait. Have a nice day, good hearing and lots of great music.


With good tuning LCP are great


----------



## WoodyLuvr

jeejack said:


> With good tuning LCP are great


👆Very, very, very true!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

jeejack said:


> With good tuning LCP are great



Precisely why I took a chance on the NSC Audio 80ohm LCP buds that he and I are referring to in those posts. LCP drivers are definitely one of my favorites in buds/IEMs when they're done well and, IMO, the buds NSC put out with those drivers in them are done pretty well.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Well, having spoken with you a time or two,  it seems as though you haven't picked too many "clunkers" to this point. You must have some kind of earbud ESP or something. LOL
> 
> But, yes that seems a mighty good deal to me, and again luck seems to have favored you. Maybe I should have you pick my next lottery numbers.  Well, OK. I guess you have to actually play the lottery to win it don't you?


I remember reading good things about it as well that sounded similar to how @JAnonymous5150 described it.


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Precisely why I took a chance on the NSC Audio 80ohm LCP buds that he and I are referring to in those posts. LCP drivers are definitely one of my favorites in buds/IEMs when they're done well and, IMO, the buds NSC put out with those drivers in them are done pretty well.


I really want to try the 300 Ohm version of that driver.  All the LCP I’ve tried so far are very good drivers.  I little harder to get a good soundstage out of, but it’s certainly doable.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> I really want to try the 300 Ohm version of that driver.  All the LCP I’ve tried so far are very good drivers.  I little harder to get a good soundstage out of, but it’s certainly doable.



Obviously, I haven't done an earbud with LCP drivers yet, but I have used them in DIY over ear applications and in a pair of DIY IEMs I put together. 

I tried a 40mm and 50mm LCP driver in over ears and when moving up to that larger size I found the tuning to be much more finicky. You really have to work on the damping, dampening, baffles, and vents to get them to come alive, open up, and not come across as overly smooth and sluggish. In closed backs the soundstage is claustrophobic until you get the vents and damping in particular working in harmony to let the driver move enough air without losing control and allowing it to become boomy and bloated. When you get it right and find the driver's sweet spot you know it because they really sing and the sound junps from mediocre to something really special. I gifted that pair to my bassist/BFF and am thrilled at how often he uses them and shows them off to people.

With smaller 10mm LCP drivers I used in my IEM experiment, they're much better out of the box, so to speak, and they don't have the tendency towards sluggishness and overly thick note weight that the larger versions do. I did have trouble getting the soundstage pushed out as far as I would normally have liked, but how much of that had to do with the drivers and how much to do with the natural limitations of the IEM medium and my own lack of expertise, I'm not sure.


----------



## jeejack

A little help for DIY beginners. 
The best drag and drop drivers are 32 BG and 32 TI comp red dot. Stock (does not require any tuning)


----------



## yoros (Sep 30, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Yep. I believe it is every first Tuesday of the month IIRC. Good call sir!
> 
> Edit: Wait, they said on FB before it was every first Tuesday of the month. I just realized that the 2nd is on a Sunday... Ineresting.


Hello everyone,
I'm thinking of buying the Smabat M4 + one module driver (promo day 2 october).
*Which one do you think I should buy ?*
I was thinking of the Yellow ST10S 150ohm, advised for classical music.
About the sound I like : I love my FF3 and Toneking Viridis.
Thanks for your answers.


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Obviously, I haven't done an earbud with LCP drivers yet, but I have used them in DIY over ear applications and in a pair of DIY IEMs I put together.
> 
> I tried a 40mm and 50mm LCP driver in over ears and when moving up to that larger size I found the tuning to be much more finicky. You really have to work on the damping, dampening, baffles, and vents to get them to come alive, open up, and not come across as overly smooth and sluggish. In closed backs the soundstage is claustrophobic until you get the vents and damping in particular working in harmony to let the driver move enough air without losing control and allowing it to become boomy and bloated. When you get it right and find the driver's sweet spot you know it because they really sing and the sound junps from mediocre to something really special. I gifted that pair to my bassist/BFF and am thrilled at how often he uses them and shows them off to people.
> 
> With smaller 10mm LCP drivers I used in my IEM experiment, they're much better out of the box, so to speak, and they don't have the tendency towards sluggishness and overly thick note weight that the larger versions do. I did have trouble getting the soundstage pushed out as far as I would normally have liked, but how much of that had to do with the drivers and how much to do with the natural limitations of the IEM medium and my own lack of expertise, I'm not sure.


My experience with the earbud ones puts them more in the over ear camp.  Not a huge deal and maybe not to the same degree,  but it can be tuned out of them or left in as an “feature” because they are easy to listen to.   


jeejack said:


> A little help for DIY beginners.
> The best drag and drop drivers are 32 BG and 32 TI comp red dot. Stock (does not require any tuning)


Definitely.  Of course they can get better balanced with some tuning though, but many people seem to really enjoy them stock.


----------



## Stuff Jones (Sep 30, 2022)

I've got a newish 3.5 SE version up for sale in the classifieds. Switched my sources over to 4.4 and liked the Chaconne so much that I repurchased a 4.4 version. So good for instrumental music.  Just wish for removable cables at that price range...

Has anyone else noticed that their gold plating at the end of the nozzle wore off quite quickly? Mine has, but the seller says that's normal.


----------



## Pylaczynski

Ksearphone DB1E got massive price drop from the original 199$ (2 weeks ago on release) to 119$ today. Now it looks tempting


----------



## KokushiTsumo

Pylaczynski said:


> Ksearphone DB1E got massive price drop from the original 199$ (2 weeks ago on release) to 119$ today. Now it looks tempting


Is it any good? Want the Serratus but don't want to spend the cash


----------



## Pylaczynski

I guess no one listened to that yet so that is blind buy. I guess you could not go wrong with Serratus on the other hand


----------



## samandhi

jeejack said:


> With good tuning LCP are great


I can totally agree with that one. My FQL Blackhole Redux are LCP drivers, and they are amazing IMHO.


yoros said:


> Hello everyone,
> I'm thinking of buying the Smabat M4 + one module driver (promo day 2 october).
> *Which one do you think I should buy ?*
> I was thinking of the Yellow ST10S 150ohm, advised for classical music.
> ...


For classical music I would actually recommend the Super One 100ohm driver for the M4, or the stock driver. The 150Ti driver is more mid recessed than the others.... YMMV though. 


Stuff Jones said:


> I've got a newish 3.5 SE version up for sale in the classifieds. Switched my sources over to 4.4 and liked the Chaconne so much that I repurchased a 4.4 version. So good for instrumental music.  Just wish for removable cables at that price range...
> 
> *Has anyone else noticed that their gold plating wore off quite quickly? Mine has, but the seller says that's normal.*


Are you talking about on the connectors for the Chaconne? I have not noticed this on my set (which I listen to quite a bit). If you don't mind me asking, who is the seller? Are they an "authorized" Moondrop seller?


----------



## jeejack

samandhi said:


> I can totally agree with that one. My FQL Blackhole Redux are LCP drivers, and they are amazing IMHO.


I know 😉 but here we talk about the DIY LCP drivers which you can find on Aliexpress.


----------



## samandhi

jeejack said:


> I know 😉 but here we talk about the DIY LCP drivers which you can find on Aliexpress.


Ahh, my mistake, I thought we were talking about the merits of LCP drivers in general.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Pylaczynski said:


> Ksearphone DB1E got massive price drop from the original 199$ (2 weeks ago on release) to 119$ today. Now it looks tempting



Somehow I missed that there was a difference between the DB1 and DB1E so I was thinking you meant the DB1 had somehow been dropped to $119 from its regular $319. Yup, I'm an idiot and for a few seconds I was a really excited idiot and then I looked it up. Stupid Google always killin' my fun...


----------



## drewbadour

samandhi said:


> I can totally agree with that one. My FQL Blackhole Redux are LCP drivers, and they are amazing IMHO.


What is this btw? Where can I learn more about it?


----------



## samandhi

drewbadour said:


> What is this btw? Where can I learn more about it?


This is a "one of a kind" earbud created by my brother from another mother @FranQL. 

He actually made me two sets; the FQL Grand finale, and the FQL Blackhole Redux. But he doesn't sell them.  If you look under "media" on this thread, I just posted some pictures of them a few days ago (if you would like to see them both).


----------



## Stuff Jones (Sep 30, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Are you talking about on the connectors for the Chaconne? I have not noticed this on my set (which I listen to quite a bit). If you don't mind me asking, who is the seller? Are they an "authorized" Moondrop seller?



I should have specified. I mean at the end of the nozzle, where the sound comes out. The part that is colored gold when new. And also, though it says that part is brass, it looks similar to the rest of the bud to me.

I got them from Apos.


----------



## samandhi

Stuff Jones said:


> I should have specified. I mean at the end of the nozzle, where the sound comes out. The part that is colored gold when new. And also, though it says that part is bronze, it looks similar to the rest of the bud to me.
> 
> I got them from Apos.


Do you have some pictures? I will shoot some pictures and you can compare. 

Oh, and I got mine directly from Moondrop (Amazon store).


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Stuff Jones said:


> I should have specified. I mean at the end of the nozzle, where the sound comes out. The part that is colored gold when new. And also, though it says that part is bronze, it looks similar to the rest of the bud to me.
> 
> I got them from Apos.



I only had the Chaconnes for about a month, but I didn't have a problem with them and my guitarist has owned them for the 4 or 5 months since then and the bronze finish is still intact (I just asked). I sent a text to a fellow earbud aficionado who says he has owned them since a month after release and his bronze finish is untouched as well.


----------



## jeejack

drewbadour said:


> What is this btw? Where can I learn more about it?


Take a look at the DIY Earbuds thread, you'll find a lot of interesting stuff


----------



## Stuff Jones

samandhi said:


> Do you have some pictures? I will shoot some pictures and you can compare.
> 
> Oh, and I got mine directly from Moondrop (Amazon store).



Here's a pic after taking off the foams. You can see a little gold left in the middle, but the rest is silver (not brass) like the rest of the bud. I've only had them since May, and purchased them new.


----------



## samandhi

Stuff Jones said:


> I should have specified. I mean at the end of the nozzle, where the sound comes out. The part that is colored gold when new. And also, though it says that part is bronze, it looks similar to the rest of the bud to me.
> 
> I got them from Apos.





JAnonymous5150 said:


> I only had the Chaconnes for about a month, but I didn't have a problem with them and my guitarist has owned them for the 4 or 5 months since then and the bronze finish is still intact (I just asked). I sent a text to a fellow earbud aficionado who says he has owned them since a month after release and his bronze finish is untouched as well.


Yep, I have had mine for well over a year now, and not a blemish on them so far. Here are the pics:



Spoiler: Moondrop Chaconne


----------



## samandhi (Sep 30, 2022)

Stuff Jones said:


> Here's a pic after taking off the foams. You can see a little gold left in the middle, but the rest is silver (not brass) like the rest of the bud. I've only had them since May, and purchased them new.


WOW! Do you have acid for ear wax? That is NOT normal, no matter what the seller says. You should contact them again (with this picture, and maybe mine as well), and if that get you nowhere, you should contact Moondrop. That is what I would do anyhow.

Edit: And judging by the "green" color, I would say that they put some really cheap metal in place of what is SUPPOSED to be there IMO.


----------



## Stuff Jones

samandhi said:


> WOW! Do you have acid for ear wax? That is NOT normal, no matter what the seller says. You should contact them again (with this picture, and maybe mine as well), and if that get you nowhere, you should contact Moondrop. That is what I would do anyhow.



I did send the pics to Apos and they said Moondrop got back to them and said its not a sign of manufacturer defect. I will contact Moondrop myself. 

I understand the gold maybe wearing off, but its weird to me that the bronze underneath isn;t bronze color.


----------



## samandhi

Stuff Jones said:


> I did send the pics to Apos and they said Moondrop got back to them and said its not a sign of manufacturer defect. I will contact Moondrop myself.
> 
> I understand the gold maybe wearing off, but its weird to me that the bronze underneath isn;t bronze color.


Unless you wore them in the swimming pool, I wouldn't think they should look like that.


----------



## samandhi

Stuff Jones said:


> I did send the pics to Apos and they said Moondrop got back to them and said its not a sign of manufacturer defect. I will contact Moondrop myself.
> 
> I understand the gold maybe wearing off, but its weird to me that the bronze underneath isn;t bronze color.


Now, also keep in mind, mine have never been wet, or subject to any sort of humidity, so I can't speak to whether this could happen in any sort of moisture situation.


----------



## Pylaczynski

Stuff Jones said:


> I did send the pics to Apos and they said Moondrop got back to them and said its not a sign of manufacturer defect. I will contact Moondrop myself.
> 
> I understand the gold maybe wearing off, but its weird to me that the bronze underneath isn;t bronze color.


It is supposedly gold plated brass - not bronze faceplate. There are copper .-zinc alloys (brasses) with nickel added that are silvery in colour, but those are rather uncommon. And I have no idea why would Moondrop choose that for gold plating and not typical yellowish one... .
It looks like they may have cut down on cost and changed the raw material - there were enormously big deficits of "red" metals in the past past year.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Stuff Jones said:


> I did send the pics to Apos and they said Moondrop got back to them and said its not a sign of manufacturer defect. I will contact Moondrop myself.
> 
> I understand the gold maybe wearing off, but its weird to me that the bronze underneath isn;t bronze color.



F that! Contact Moondrop directly and see what they say. I can't think of any reason why this should be considered normal or acceptable and make sure you mention that Apos said this is all good and that they claim Moondrop signed off on this as well. If that's considered normal and not deffective for Moondrop's TOTL buds then remind me to stay away from Moondrop from now on.


----------



## samandhi

Pylaczynski said:


> It is supposedly gold plated brass - not bronze faceplate. There are copper .-zinc alloys (brasses) with nickel added that are silvery in colour, but those are rather uncommon. And I have no idea why would Moondrop choose that for gold plating and not typical yellowish one... .
> It looks like they may have cut down on cost and changed the raw material - there were enormously big deficits of "red" metals in the past past year.


That is a great point! I hadn't considered that they might use replacement metals during the shortages. It still doesn't make it right for what they charge for those IMHO though. 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> F that! Contact Moondrop directly and see what they say. I can't think of any reason why this should be considered normal or acceptable and make sure you mention that Apos said this is all good and that they claim Moondrop signed off on this as well. If that's considered normal and not deffective for Moondrop's TOTL buds then remind me to stay away from Moondrop from now on.


Preach on brother!


----------



## Stuff Jones (Sep 30, 2022)

Pylaczynski said:


> It is supposedly gold plated brass - not bronze faceplate. There are copper .-zinc alloys (brasses) with nickel added that are silvery in colour, but those are rather uncommon. And I have no idea why would Moondrop choose that for gold plating and not typical yellowish one... .
> It looks like they may have cut down on cost and changed the raw material - there were enormously big deficits of "red" metals in the past past year.



Yeah, I meant brass. Edited my post. Frankly I don't care about the look - sounds great. But it might be a problem for a buyer since I'm trying to resell them.


----------



## Stuff Jones

samandhi said:


> Now, also keep in mind, mine have never been wet, or subject to any sort of humidity, so I can't speak to whether this could happen in any sort of moisture situation.



Just been using them indoors with foams. I don't think my ears are too wet!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

I just got a major op amp delivery today. My orders from Burson and DigiKey arrived on the same day. This weekend is the first weekend I'm gonna have some DIY fun swapping some op amps, making a couple new cables, and I'm going to make my first serious attempt at making and tuning my own pair of earbuds.

I'll be using the same copper shells that NSC Audio used on the 80ohm LCPs that I love so much because they fit like a glove. If I was shooting for high detail retrieval with slight elevation of the bass and good treble extension with a resistance of 300ohms or less, what driver would my DIYer friends out there recommend I start with? I should add that the bass should be fast, detailed, and articulate in the end bud so I'm looking for the best driver to start with to achieve those results. I'm talking to you @Ronion , @FranQL , @jeejack , @o0genesis0o , @samandhi and all you other guys that pop on here from time to time and discuss drivers.

I'm open to any and all suggestions!


----------



## FranQL (Sep 30, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I just got a major op amp delivery today. My orders from Burson and DigiKey arrived on the same day. This weekend is the first weekend I'm gonna have some DIY fun swapping some op amps, making a couple new cables, and I'm going to make my first serious attempt at making and tuning my own pair of earbuds.
> 
> I'll be using the same copper shells that NSC Audio used on the 80ohm LCPs that I love so much because they fit like a glove. If I was shooting for high detail retrieval with slight elevation of the bass and good treble extension with a resistance of 300ohms or less, what driver would my DIYer friends out there recommend I start with? I should add that the bass should be fast, detailed, and articulate in the end bud so I'm looking for the best driver to start with to achieve those results. I'm talking to you @Ronion , @FranQL , @jeejack , @o0genesis0o , @samandhi and all you other guys that pop on here from time to time and discuss drivers.
> 
> I'm open to any and all suggestions!



150ti Smabat
64 ti Comp


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I just got a major op amp delivery today. My orders from Burson and DigiKey arrived on the same day. This weekend is the first weekend I'm gonna have some DIY fun swapping some op amps, making a couple new cables, and I'm going to make my first serious attempt at making and tuning my own pair of earbuds.
> 
> I'll be using the same copper shells that NSC Audio used on the 80ohm LCPs that I love so much because they fit like a glove. If I was shooting for high detail retrieval with slight elevation of the bass and good treble extension with a resistance of 300ohms or less, what driver would my DIYer friends out there recommend I start with? I should add that the bass should be fast, detailed, and articulate in the end bud so I'm looking for the best driver to start with to achieve those results. I'm talking to you @Ronion , @FranQL , @jeejack , @o0genesis0o , @samandhi and all you other guys that pop on here from time to time and discuss drivers.
> 
> I'm open to any and all suggestions!





FranQL said:


> 150ti Smabat
> 64 ti Comp


Was going to say the same thing about the Smabat driver.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Sep 30, 2022)

Okay so I'll ask both of you guys, what is it about the Smabat 150ti driver that makes it the top recommendation? Is it the closest to what I want out of the box, easiest to tune, has the requisite technicalities or what?

Edit: Forgot to quote you guys so I'll tag you @samandhi and @FranQL


----------



## KokushiTsumo

Can you buy just the driver or do you need to get the bud along with it?


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay so I'll ask both of you guys, what is it about the Smabat 150ti driver that makes it the top recommendation? Is it the closest to what I want out of the box, easiest to tune, has the requisite technicalities or what?
> 
> Edit: Forgot to quote you guys so I'll tag you @samandhi and @FranQL


It just seems to have it all. It is a very good quality driver, is versatile, with good technicalities, and great (and fast) bass. Plus, it has the benefits of a high impedance driver without being so high that you can't drive it from a lower end source. 

Now, as for tuning/creating, I haven't made any DIY (hope that doesn't disqualify me), but I have the M2s Pro 150Ti, M4 150Ti, ST10S B&G 150Ti, and the FQL Grand Finale 150Ti, so I do have a bit of knowledge of their sound with differing shells.


----------



## samandhi (Sep 30, 2022)

KokushiTsumo said:


> Can you buy just the driver or do you need to get the bud along with it?


If you are talking about the Smabat driver, if you can find it (is discontinued now) the driver for the M2s Pro just needs the connector desoldered. But with the new M4, you might need to do a little more "surgery" on it to get it out of the case they put it in. 

Edit: To answer your question, yes you can buy it separately (sort of, as you see from my above response) hehe


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Has anyone tried the jcally EP09? It looks like they're trying to compete with the TRN EMA and the whole bery driver plus detachable cable build has me interested at least.


----------



## drewbadour

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I just got a major op amp delivery today. My orders from Burson and DigiKey arrived on the same day. This weekend is the first weekend I'm gonna have some DIY fun swapping some op amps, making a couple new cables, and I'm going to make my first serious attempt at making and tuning my own pair of earbuds.
> 
> I'll be using the same copper shells that NSC Audio used on the 80ohm LCPs that I love so much because they fit like a glove. If I was shooting for high detail retrieval with slight elevation of the bass and good treble extension with a resistance of 300ohms or less, what driver would my DIYer friends out there recommend I start with? I should add that the bass should be fast, detailed, and articulate in the end bud so I'm looking for the best driver to start with to achieve those results. I'm talking to you @Ronion , @FranQL , @jeejack , @o0genesis0o , @samandhi and all you other guys that pop on here from time to time and discuss drivers.
> 
> I'm open to any and all suggestions!


Is this the NSC 80ohm you like? Link

Already ordered some drivers (32BG, 150BG, and 32KAPH) to learn how to DIY on but also interested in trying out a bunch of other driver types.

What are the characteristics of the 80LCP btw?


----------



## drewbadour

samandhi said:


> It just seems to have it all. It is a very good quality driver, is versatile, with good technicalities, and great (and fast) bass. Plus, it has the benefits of a high impedance driver without being so high that you can't drive it from a lower end source.
> 
> Now, as for tuning/creating, I haven't made any DIY (hope that doesn't disqualify me), but I have the M2s Pro 150Ti, M4 150Ti, ST10S B&G 150Ti, and the FQL Grand Finale 150Ti, so I do have a bit of knowledge of their sound with differing shells.


Is it possible to obtain the drivers by themselves? Would be curious to play around with it


----------



## o0genesis0o

FranQL said:


> 150ti Smabat
> 64 ti Comp



You mean this 64ohm driver?

AU $19.72  38％ Off | 15.4MM 64 Ohm Composited Titanium Headphone Drivers Flat Headphone DIY for MX500 Speaker Unit 120dB/W
https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0iR1He

I would be disappointed quite a bit if this is already “high detail retrieval” amongst DIY drivers. Please tell me higher impedance drivers are better   

@JAnonymous5150 I have tried 3 drivers (2 from NCS store). The 150ohm bass driver is cheap, cheery, alright. 

Same is the case with the 64ohm Ti comp:  Quite okay in stock form, but the soundstage is not widest (still deep, though). The 64ohm has quite modest ear gain, so as soon as you drill any bass hole, it would become boxy and muddy. The trick that I used in the end is reducing the air going though the back of the driver to drop the mid bass. Now, it sounds tight and clear with large soundstage, but the bass is not inspiring. I think I have over dampened the drivers.

The last drivers I have used are salvaged from Nicehck YD30. These are midcentric with decent technical performance. Think of an Etymotic ER2XR but with soundstage. The drivers sound metallic in the stock MX500 shell, though.

So, sorry mate, nothing in particular to recommend


----------



## waynes world (Sep 30, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Tiktaalika



Whoa! Even though it's not typicially in my lane, great stuff! Here's an interesting review:

https://progreport.com/charlie-griffiths-tiktaalika-album-review/



samandhi said:


> It just seems to have it all. It is a very good quality driver, is versatile, with good technicalities, and great (and fast) bass. Plus, it has the benefits of a high impedance driver without being so high that you can't drive it from a lower end source.
> 
> Now, as for tuning/creating, I haven't made any DIY (hope that doesn't disqualify me), but I have the M2s Pro 150Ti, M4 150Ti, ST10S B&G 150Ti, and the FQL Grand Finale 150Ti, so I do have a bit of knowledge of their sound with differing shells.



I was assuming (hoping) that my ST10S B&G 150's had the "Ti" drivers, but I wasn't 100% sure. But, you did a nice job of answering that for me. Thanks!


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I just got a major op amp delivery today. My orders from Burson and DigiKey arrived on the same day. This weekend is the first weekend I'm gonna have some DIY fun swapping some op amps, making a couple new cables, and I'm going to make my first serious attempt at making and tuning my own pair of earbuds.
> 
> I'll be using the same copper shells that NSC Audio used on the 80ohm LCPs that I love so much because they fit like a glove. If I was shooting for high detail retrieval with slight elevation of the bass and good treble extension with a resistance of 300ohms or less, what driver would my DIYer friends out there recommend I start with? I should add that the bass should be fast, detailed, and articulate in the end bud so I'm looking for the best driver to start with to achieve those results. I'm talking to you @Ronion , @FranQL , @jeejack , @o0genesis0o , @samandhi and all you other guys that pop on here from time to time and discuss drivers.
> 
> I'm open to any and all suggestions!


The SMABAT 150ti is the only one I know of but the 130Be isn’t bad.  With that shell, I wouldn’t know what to expect, but I’d sure like to hear your impressions.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

drewbadour said:


> Is this the NSC 80ohm you like? Link
> 
> Already ordered some drivers (32BG, 150BG, and 32KAPH) to learn how to DIY on but also interested in trying out a bunch of other driver types.
> 
> What are the characteristics of the 80LCP btw?



That's the one! It has very good punchy quality to it. The low end reaches nice and deep and remains snappy and articulate. The mids are linear with no emphasis high or low and they have this nice smooth, but detailed presentation going on. The highs extend pretty well and give your cymbals plenty of splash while avoiding sibilance and maintaining that smoothness carried over from the mids. 

Basically they just have a nice balanced character with plenty of energy and character and they don't have any major flaws. You can listen to almost anything on them and it sounds pleasing. For what they cost, therer aren't many buds offering that kind of cohesive tuning and versatility, IME. I find myself reaching for them surprisingly often given how many standout buds I have in my collection.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

waynes world said:


> Whoa! Even though it's not typicially in my lane, great stuff! Here's an interesting review:
> 
> https://progreport.com/charlie-griffiths-tiktaalika-album-review/



Pretty sick, right? It has a bit more of the growling type vocals and stuff than I normally go for, but the music is so insanely intense and the musicianship and technical prowess is beyond amazing. It makes it hard not to like. Everytime I listen to that album, by the end of it I'm always hyped up and ready to rock out for hours which is why I warned about bedtime listening!

Thanks for the link! I hadn't seen that stuff before. I only found out about this album because I was reading about a Haken album and the article mentioned that Griffiths was putting out a solo album so I looked it up and gave it a spin.

I'm glad you dug it! I found a band the other day that I have been diggin' quite a bit too. The group is named Sea In The Sky and if I were you I'd start with their album entitled Everything All At Once. And don't worry, this one isn't as intense as the Charlie Griffiths stuff. If you try it, let me know what you think, okay?


----------



## classfolkphile

Is there anyone in the US that repairs earbuds? 

I have a pair of Yinman 600 where one shell separated and the channel cut out. I've had that happen on several pairs of less expensive earbuds and it really upsets me as there's no reason it should occur.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

classfolkphile said:


> Is there anyone in the US that repairs earbuds?
> 
> I have a pair of Yinman 600 where one shell separated and the channel cut out. I've had that happen on several pairs of less expensive earbuds and it really upsets me as there's no reason it should occur.



Can you take some pics? If it's just a matter of resoldering a failed connection and glueing the shell back together I'm sure you can find someone to do it, possibly even someone here. Heck, if that's all it is you could do it yourself with a soldering iron and some locktite or epoxy after watching a 5 minute youtube video.

Either way, I'd imagine we can help you figure it out.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> That's the one! It has very good punchy quality to it. The low end reaches nice and deep and remains snappy and articulate. The mids are linear with no emphasis high or low and they have this nice smooth, but detailed presentation going on. The highs extend pretty well and give your cymbals plenty of splash while avoiding sibilance and maintaining that smoothness carried over from the mids.
> 
> Basically they just have a nice balanced character with plenty of energy and character and they don't have any major flaws. You can listen to almost anything on them and it sounds pleasing. For what they cost, therer aren't many buds offering that kind of cohesive tuning and versatility, IME. I find myself reaching for them surprisingly often given how many standout buds I have in my collection.



That one is so cheap. I wonder how they turn a profit. Drivers + cable + shell alone would be more expensive.


----------



## Ronion

classfolkphile said:


> Is there anyone in the US that repairs earbuds?
> 
> I have a pair of Yinman 600 where one shell separated and the channel cut out. I've had that happen on several pairs of less expensive earbuds and it really upsets me as there's no reason it should occur.


If you are in the Bay Area I imagine I could.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> That one is so cheap. I wonder how they turn a profit. Drivers + cable + shell alone would be more expensive.



My bet is that at least part of the purpose of this pair of buds is to show off the quality of the DIY components they're offering. Buying a pair of these is a cheap way to sample shells, drivers, and cable supplies they offer all at once. I bought the versiob without a cable so I can't speak to it's quality, but after listening to these I ordered several pairs of the shells and 2 more pairs of these drivers because the buds show that both have real potential for making aome fantastic sounding setups.

I could be wrong though, but if I am then NSC Audio has to be happy with the added benefit because I would imagine I'm not the only person who has heard the potential and ordered supplies to see what more in the way of performance can be saueezed out of them.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> My bet is that at least part of the purpose of this pair of buds is to show off the quality of the DIY components they're offering. Buying a pair of these is a cheap way to sample shells, drivers, and cable supplies they offer all at once. I bought the versiob without a cable so I can't speak to it's quality, but after listening to these I ordered several pairs of the shells and 2 more pairs of these drivers because the buds show that both have real potential for making aome fantastic sounding setups.
> 
> I could be wrong though, but if I am then NSC Audio has to be happy with the added benefit because I would imagine I'm not the only person who has heard the potential and ordered supplies to see what more in the way of performance can be saueezed out of them.



I should buy their prebuilt stuffs to try and harvest the components for other DIY projects if I don’t like what they do   

I still don’t understand how the manufacturers of MX500 drivers survive. Are these leftovers from the last decade? Is there a large market for earbuds somewhere? Are DIYers buying enough to keep the whole industry afloat? Any time I open NCS page, I am amazed by the variety. Hopefully these drivers will be available for a long time to come.


----------



## samandhi

drewbadour said:


> Is it possible to obtain the drivers by themselves? Would be curious to play around with it


See a few posts above yours..  Good luck and enjoy! 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-17171490


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> I should buy their prebuilt stuffs to try and harvest the components for other DIY projects if I don’t like what they do
> 
> I still don’t understand how the manufacturers of MX500 drivers survive. Are these leftovers from the last decade? Is there a large market for earbuds somewhere? Are DIYers buying enough to keep the whole industry afloat? Any time I open NCS page, I am amazed by the variety. Hopefully these drivers will be available for a long time to come.



The drivers aren't just for the DIY market. I assume the drivers are also supplying many manufacturers and the stuff sold on the DIY market is obtained from OEMs that supply manufacturers. That's always been my thought anyways.

From talking to some of the folks that supply components for over ear builds I know that's how it works with that stuff.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> The drivers aren't just for the DIY market. I assume the drivers are also supplying many manufacturers and the stuff sold on the DIY market is obtained from OEMs that supply manufacturers



That means there are some companies making and selling earbuds with 15.4mm drivers with enough volume to incentivise OEMs   

Wait, I just remember that there are actually new commercial earbuds being sold on Aliexpress


----------



## drewbadour (Oct 1, 2022)

samandhi said:


> See a few posts above yours..  Good luck and enjoy!
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-17171490


Ah so basically try to find m2s? And then desolder?

Is the m2s pro the same thing?


----------



## samandhi

drewbadour said:


> Ah so basically try to find m2s? And then desolder?
> 
> Is the m2s pro the same thing?


Not the M2s Pro earbud, but the modular driver that goes with it. As seen from this picture:


----------



## drewbadour (Oct 1, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Not the M2s Pro earbud, but the modular driver that goes with it. As seen from this picture:


Ah it looks like m2 version of the driver module is no longer available. Only the m4... Seems like extracting it might be out of my depth until I get more skilled 

Maybe not a great first diy project


----------



## samandhi

drewbadour said:


> Ah so basically try to find m2s? And then desolder?
> 
> Is the m2s pro the same thing?


So I'm talking about desoldering the connector on the driver:


----------



## samandhi

drewbadour said:


> Ah it looks like m2 version of the driver module is no longer available. Only the m4... Seems like extracting it might be out of my depth until I get more skilled
> 
> Maybe not a great first diy project


You might still be able to find it on AE. But you are probably right about taking the M4 driver from the encasement. While I haven't tried it, it does look a little more in depth.


----------



## FranQL

samandhi said:


> So I'm talking about desoldering the connector on the driver:


----------



## FranQL (Oct 1, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> You mean this 64ohm driver?
> 
> AU $19.72  38％ Off | 15.4MM 64 Ohm Composited Titanium Headphone Drivers Flat Headphone DIY for MX500 Speaker Unit 120dB/W
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0iR1He
> ...



Yep, maybe I have a wrong concept or a different perception, but based on what @JAnonymous5150 commented that with this 64 Ticomp driver you can get that sound, IMO it is an excellent driver and the best 64 Ohm I have tried (leaving aside the stock Ks 64, well I've never tried to reset it, I like stock).


----------



## samandhi

FranQL said:


>


This exactly... Thank you Hermano!


----------



## o0genesis0o

FranQL said:


> Yep, maybe I have a wrong concept or a different perception, but based on what @JAnonymous5150 commented that with this 64 Ticomp driver you can get that sound, IMO it is an excellent driver and the best 64 Ohm I have tried (leaving aside the stock Ks 64, well I've never tried to reset it, I like stock).



Just to clarify, what I meant is that that Ti comp driver does not sound outstanding to me in terms of resolution, so when you recommend that driver to @JAnonymous5150, I was like “if a pro says that, then that driver is one of the best at 64ohm? That’s disappointing”

It’s likely that I have butchered the drivers with my “tuning”. Maybe I’ll get another set and try again


----------



## samandhi

So, I have been fiddling around (again) with the M4 and the Super One 100Bio driver. While the piercing has gotten less to my ears, it still persists and in a bad way. So, I removed the dampers, thinking that it might make a difference. To my ears this made no difference in that area at all. It DID bring up the upper bass and lower and mid mids, but not enough to make any difference. 

I have finally resorted to simple EQ (I didn't want to get complicated here, I just wanted to isolate my problem hearing). I think the difference here is NOT that the presence is boosted more than the M2s Pro, but because the upper bass, and lower to mid mids are just sucked out too much. They don't have a deep enough sub bass to carry this set. So, I gave some +dB to those areas, and subtracted -6dB from 2K, and WOW! I can actually hear things without it hurting my ears. 

OK, so now it changed the whole signature too much, but I didn't want to re-add that over cooked pina. I gave it +3dB to 1K and +2.5 to 4K and +3 to 8K (to give it actual treble to replace the perceived treble from the huge boost @2K). Now it still has that boosted sound, but it isn't piercing for me. 

This is obviously me just messing around (and on the M0 no less LOL). I will probably tweak this base on a more in-depth way and on PEQ to fine tune it to my tastes in time.


----------



## FranQL

o0genesis0o said:


> Just to clarify, what I meant is that that Ti comp driver does not sound outstanding to me in terms of resolution, so when you recommend that driver to @JAnonymous5150, I was like “if a pro says that, then that driver is one of the best at 64ohm? That’s disappointing”
> 
> It’s likely that I have butchered the drivers with my “tuning”. Maybe I’ll get another set and try again


LOL, 
Pro????? noooooo please, there is nothing professional about what I do, the correct thing is: "if another person says that these drivers sound good to him, maybe we have different settings or just different tastes".

This stock driver sounded very normal, but it does seem technical and resolute to me, despite the fact that the treble in that setting is discreet.


----------



## samandhi (Oct 1, 2022)

FranQL said:


> LOL,
> Pro????? noooooo please, there is nothing professional about what I do, the correct thing is: "if another person says that these drivers sound good to him, maybe we have different settings or just different tastes".
> 
> This stock driver sounded very normal, but it does seem technical and resolute to me, despite the fact that the treble in that setting is discreet.


@o0genesis0o Don't let him fool you. I have two of his creations (of which he asked me questions on what I liked, songs, overall signature, etc... and he was spot on, on all accounts for both sets) that say otherwise... And I am sure there are many more on here that might say likewise. 

And if he isn't a pro, or at least super knowledgeable, then he is one of the luckiest DIY makers there is... LOL

Sorry bro! There is nothing you can say that will diminish how impressed I am with your work....


----------



## jeejack

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I just got a major op amp delivery today. My orders from Burson and DigiKey arrived on the same day. This weekend is the first weekend I'm gonna have some DIY fun swapping some op amps, making a couple new cables, and I'm going to make my first serious attempt at making and tuning my own pair of earbuds.
> 
> I'll be using the same copper shells that NSC Audio used on the 80ohm LCPs that I love so much because they fit like a glove. If I was shooting for high detail retrieval with slight elevation of the bass and good treble extension with a resistance of 300ohms or less, what driver would my DIYer friends out there recommend I start with? I should add that the bass should be fast, detailed, and articulate in the end bud so I'm looking for the best driver to start with to achieve those results. I'm talking to you @Ronion , @FranQL , @jeejack , @o0genesis0o , @samandhi and all you other guys that pop on here from time to time and discuss drivers.
> 
> I'm open to any and all suggestions!


The same recommendations from me. Smabat 150 TI and 130 Bery. With this type of shell I have good results with the 150 BG driver, the one you can also find in Faaeal Rosemary. However, for the beginning I recommend the MX500 shell


----------



## WoodyLuvr

samandhi said:


> @o0genesis0o Don't let him fool you. I have two of his creations (of which he asked me questions on what I liked, songs, overall signature, etc... and he was spot on, on all accounts for both sets) that say otherwise... And I am sure there are many more on here that might say likewise.
> 
> And if he isn't a pro, or at least super knowledgeable, then he is one of the luckiest DIY makers there is... LOL
> 
> Sorry bro! There is nothing you can say that will diminish how impressed I am with your work....


Maybe it is proof that there is some *magic* still left in the hobby 🪄


----------



## jeejack

drewbadour said:


> Ah so basically try to find m2s? And then desolder?
> 
> Is the m2s pro the same thing?


The M2s/pro come with 40 ohm drivers. I don't think you can find the first version of the 150 TI that didn't have that connector attached... Out of curiosity, what DIY earbuds do you have?


----------



## jeejack

FranQL said:


> Yep, maybe I have a wrong concept or a different perception, but based on what @JAnonymous5150 commented that with this 64 Ticomp driver you can get that sound, IMO it is an excellent driver and the best 64 Ohm I have tried (leaving aside the stock Ks 64, well I've never tried to reset it, I like stock).


Agree! 
I haven't touched the Ks64 either 🙃


----------



## JAnonymous5150

jeejack said:


> The same recommendations from me. Smabat 150 TI and 130 Bery. With this type of shell I have good results with the 150 BG driver, the one you can also find in Faaeal Rosemary. However, for the beginning I recommend the MX500 shell



Interesting. I didn't know the 150BG was in the Rosemary, but I really like the Rosemary so that's something to think about. I have actually put together four pairs total at this point from MX500 shells so I wanted to branch out for the first build that I'm going to take my time with and not just employ "plug and play" premade tuning technicques over one or two revisions. So I guess you could say this is the first serious-ish pair of buds I'm going to assemble.

Also, I have been modding and building over ears for almost two decades so I'm not a total beginner, just a novice in this medium. I don't at all mean to imply that I have mastered the MX500 (I have some of Herry's creations that clearly prove that) or that I am in anyway too good or advanced for them. 

I just really like the fit of these copper shells and have already done a little experiementing on vent tuning with the premade pair I bought from NSC Audio that has made me curious and excited to see what I can pull off with them given time and dedicated effort. I basically want to put together a pair that I'll want to use for a good long time. My schedule will be getting much busier soon so I'm not sure how many opportunities I will have to take my time with a DIY pair of buds.

Thanks for the suggestions. The 130 Bery has been on my list for a while since I've been following @Ronion and his experiments with that driver with interest.


----------



## ShaneyMac

jeejack said:


> Agree!
> I haven't touched the Ks64 either 🙃


 This cable looks fantastic! My Ks64 looks less attractive with standard black cable ...


----------



## tendou

faaeal rosemary still goods for the price nowadays? With all the new earbuds choices?


----------



## mt877

Not a lot of time today. Just wanted to say that Smabat never replied to my email about the M4 tuning dampers. From what was surmised in this thread, looks like the tuning dampers include type 1, type 2 and type 4. So if you take out the factory installed damper (type 3) and destroy it while experimenting with the other dampers and you want to go back to the factory installed damper (type 3) then you're out of luck. Why they didn't include all 4 damper types in the tuning kit is a mystery.


----------



## baskingshark

tendou said:


> faaeal rosemary still goods for the price nowadays? With all the new earbuds choices?



It is a dark L shaped tuning, very bassy and analogue and smooth/non fatiguing. Thick note weight.

It isn't too detailed or technical and it needs amplification due to the high impedance, so it is a very niche earbud. May not suit all music genres or suit treble heads or those who want something for critical listening.

But if you are treble sensitive or a basshead, it might be up your alley.


----------



## drewbadour (Oct 1, 2022)

jeejack said:


> The M2s/pro come with 40 ohm drivers. I don't think you can find the first version of the 150 TI that didn't have that connector attached... Out of curiosity, what DIY earbuds do you have?


Yeah im struggling to find anything other than the m4 version of the driver. I may very well be in over my head here! Complete newbie here with a dangerously strong curiosity haha. This makes me sad because I really want to hear what that driver sounds like with what everyone is saying about it.

I haven't made any on my own yet but I have 3 RikuBuds (saber - 32red dot ti comp, lancer - 150bg, and grand rider - 130be) and two from tgx (serratus and alpha). I also have the longyao yinman 600 (600be?) and rosemary (150bg).

I just bought a new soldering iron to replace an old one that died. And some some diy materials to try my hand at finding a tuning that more suits me. But I am somewhat worried I'll just destroy materials and not actually achieve anything good out of it 😂


----------



## classfolkphile

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Can you take some pics? If it's just a matter of resoldering a failed connection and glueing the shell back together I'm sure you can find someone to do it, possibly even someone here. Heck, if that's all it is you could do it yourself with a soldering iron and some locktite or epoxy after watching a 5 minute youtube video.
> 
> Either way, I'd imagine we can help you figure it out.


Ok, so I tried them again and the right channel is now working once more. Although the face of the shell separated, the wires are still connected and I'm guessing there's a poor solder joint somewhere? I've never soldered and with something this small, I doubt I could do it with my large fingers. 
I previously glued the shell back together with Faller plastic glue but it didn't hold. For now I'll re-glue it and hope the channel doesn't go out again. If it does, I'll try to find a local A/V repair person and see what they can do. 
Or get completely frustrated and just throw them out. 



Ronion said:


> If you are in the Bay Area I imagine I could.


Unfortunately I'm at the other end of the country (FL). Thanks.


----------



## tendou

baskingshark said:


> It is a dark L shaped tuning, very bassy and analogue and smooth/non fatiguing. Thick note weight.
> 
> It isn't too detailed or technical and it needs amplification due to the high impedance, so it is a very niche earbud. May not suit all music genres or suit treble heads or those who want something for critical listening.
> 
> But if you are treble sensitive or a basshead, it might be up your alley.


Thank you! Sounds like e3000 in earbuds form?


----------



## baskingshark

tendou said:


> Thank you! Sounds like e3000 in earbuds form?



Yep exactly, you hit the nail on the head. It is like an E3000. Hard to drive, dark and analoguish sounding, not too technical, big bass and smooth.


----------



## tendou

Thanks!

What is an earbuds equivalent of hd600 and hd650?


----------



## baskingshark

tendou said:


> Thanks!
> 
> What is an earbuds equivalent of hd600 and hd650?



The NiceHCK EB2S is somewhat similar to the HD650 in tonality. Haven't heard the HD600, but maybe the others can give their advise!


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Oct 1, 2022)

tendou said:


> faaeal rosemary still goods for the price nowadays? With all the new earbuds choices?



I absolutely think so. I listen to mine quite often despite having many pairs of earbuds that would be considered better and more expensive. They do laid back and relaxed listening so well and are one of my favorite buds for listening to blues and bluesy rock in specific.

Edit: I'd like to add that maybe my set are significantly different somehow, but they aren't a basshead set by any means as @baskingshark described. Mine sound similar to the Sennheiser HD650s I own in terms of overall tuning and in terms of bass quanitity. I agree with them not being the most technical set and being very smooth which is why I think they do relaxed listening and stuff like the blues so well.

Edit 2: Just wanted to to also point out that a quick glance at my collection of over ears or buds will show you that I'm NOT a basshead at all. I generally dislike overly emphasized bass. The FF3s, being a notable exception, are borderline for me and the bassiest thing I own.

Edit 3: Spelling because OCD, caveman thumbs, and smartphone keyboards don't mix.


----------



## Ronion

drewbadour said:


> Yeah im struggling to find anything other than the m4 version of the driver. I may very well be in over my head here! Complete newbie here with a dangerously strong curiosity haha. This makes me sad because I really want to hear what that driver sounds like with what everyone is saying about it.
> 
> I haven't made any on my own yet but I have 3 RikuBuds (saber - 32red dot ti comp, lancer - 150bg, and grand rider - 130be) and two from tgx (serratus and alpha). I also have the longyao yinman 600 (600be?) and rosemary (150bg).
> 
> I just bought a new soldering iron to replace an old one that died. And some some diy materials to try my hand at finding a tuning that more suits me. But I am somewhat worried I'll just destroy materials and not actually achieve anything good out of it 😂


You may want to find drivers that have the same PCB as the SMABAT driver @FranQL showed.  Perhaps they are the same manufacturer as the SMABAT drivers.  It would make sense that they’d have some of the same parts in them and hopefully that translates into technical abilities.


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I absolutely think so. I listen to mine quite often despite having many pairs of earbuds that would be considered better and more expensive. They do laid back and relaxed listening so well and are one of my favorite buds for listening to blues and bluesy rock in specific.
> 
> Edit: I'd like to add that maybe my set are significantly different somehow, but they aren't a basshead set by anymeans as @baskingshark described. Mine sound similar to the Sennheiser HD650s I own in terma of overall tuning and in terms of bass quanitity. I agree with them not being the nost technical set and being very smooth which is why I think they do relaxed listening and stuff like the blues so well.
> 
> Edit 2: Just wanted to to also point out that a quick glance at my collection of over ears or buds will show you that I'm NOT a basshead at all. I generally dislike overly emphasized bass. The FF3s being a notably exception are borderline for me and the bassiest thing I own.


They can definitely be tuned to have decent technicalities including soundstage, but shy of the uppermost levels IMO.  I wouldn’t bother trying to tune the FAEAEEAEAEAL version of them.  The glue bond is stronger than the plastic.  It’s possible to get them ope without destroying them, but for &8.50 your probably better off just buying a DIY pair.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

classfolkphile said:


> Ok, so I tried them again and the right channel is now working once more. Although the face of the shell separated, the wires are still connected and I'm guessing there's a poor solder joint somewhere? I've never soldered and with something this small, I doubt I could do it with my large fingers.
> I previously glued the shell back together with Faller plastic glue but it didn't hold. For now I'll re-glue it and hope the channel doesn't go out again. If it does, I'll try to find a local A/V repair person and see what they can do.
> Or get completely frustrated and just throw them out.
> 
> ...



It sounds like a contact issue. Getting the face back on may relieve stress on the contact and you might be fine. If it ends up having problems again and you need it fixed if I'm not travelling and all that I'll volunteer to solder them for you if that's ultimately what they need. You'd just need to ship them to me so I can do the work. I'd hate to see a beloved pair of buds go bad.

Good luck!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> They can definitely be tuned to have decent technicalities including soundstage, but shy of the uppermost levels IMO.  I wouldn’t bother trying to tune the FAEAEEAEAEAL version of them.  The glue bond is stronger than the plastic.  It’s possible to get them ope without destroying them, but for &8.50 your probably better off just buying a DIY pair.



I didn't mean to imply that I retuned mine or that I was planning to. I was just saying that maybe mine are tuned differently or something because mine aren't what I woukd call basshead or L shaped. That's all.

I like mine as they are so I plan to leave them be.


----------



## drewbadour

Ronion said:


> They can definitely be tuned to have decent technicalities including soundstage, but shy of the uppermost levels IMO.  I wouldn’t bother trying to tune the FAEAEEAEAEAL version of them.  The glue bond is stronger than the plastic.  It’s possible to get them ope without destroying them, but for &8.50 your probably better off just buying a DIY pair.


I can attest to this.... I opened my iris 2.0 up and ended up cracking the faceplates in the process. 😂

Not ready to do the same with the rosemary as that one cost twice as much bahaha


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I didn't mean to imply that I retuned mine or that I was planning to. I was just saying that maybe mine are tuned differently or something because mine aren't what I woukd call basshead or L shaped. That's all.
> 
> I like mine as they are so I plan to leave them be.


That’s what I was really try to get at: I’d just leave‘em be.  I was just speaking in a general sense.  It’s not worth attempting to retune the Rosemary.  Requires too much patience for me 😆 The FAEAEAEAL glue is legendary.  Apparently developed by NASA to hold the space shuttle together during reentrance into the atmosphere (joking).

The drivers are pretty good and DO tune up brighter with a larger soundstage with minimal tuning efforts if a DIYer were to start from scratch.  It’s also easy to overdo it and choke them and reel their soundstage back in.  The Blue Glue is sort of a teeth cutting driver in the DIY community and I’d encourage anyone to try that one second.  I absolutely agree with your assessment TBH—not a basshead driver, but it is capable of the old HD600/650 bass depth and then some.  For most music, it has what is needed to sound full.

First drivers I would recommend for anyone would be something in the Red Dot family of drivers.  It’s hard to screw up any of those drivers and easy to fix them tuning-wise.  

Third would be: go nuts!  The sky is the limit, but cutting teeth is just a good idea for any DIYer.   You (@JAnonymous5150) have my inspired to do some different shell materials.  I like the plastic shells just in case I need to drill, I can do it while reading HeadFi (again just joking (sort of)).  Modding metal shells is a bit more time consuming and requires focus and power tools or the epic hand strength of @captione.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> That’s what I was really try to get at: I’d just leave‘em be.  I was just speaking in a general sense.  It’s not worth attempting to retune the Rosemary.  Requires too much patience for me 😆 The FAEAEAEAL glue is legendary.  Apparently developed by NASA to hold the space shuttle together during reentrance into the atmosphere (joking).
> 
> The drivers are pretty good and DO tune up brighter with a larger soundstage with minimal tuning efforts if a DIYer were to start from scratch.  It’s also easy to overdo it and choke them and reel their soundstage back in.  The Blue Glue is sort of a teeth cutting driver in the DIY community and I’d encourage anyone to try that one second.  I absolutely agree with your assessment TBH—not a basshead driver, but it is capable of the old HD600/650 bass depth and then some.  For most music, it has what is needed to sound full.
> 
> ...



I used to work summers as a welder and industrial electrician depending on which uncle I worked for (started working with and apprenticing both when I was 13) so I learned a lot of metal working and fabrication skills and I grew to really enjoy it. I have just about every metal working, welding, and fabrication tool you can think of in my workshop. 

I'll be done at the studio in a few hours and then I have 2 solid days ahead of me to DIY til my heart's content!


----------



## Ronion (Oct 1, 2022)

I can’t wait to see what you come up with now!  I’ve been wondering how much the FiiO’s technicalities are aided by the metal shell…. I mean it has several things going for it: aluminum VC, Be on the diaphragm, but it’s technical abilities seem to be the best for such a low impedance barring the Tingo TG38s (which has so many different versions that you never know what you are actually going to get).  Some Tingo are great, some are mediocre.  Same as the TC200 FWIW.  Going with the FiiO has at least some degree of certainty that you’ll get what everyone else is hearing.  Tingo is like rolling dice.  I’m curious of a stronger enclosure leads better technicalities all else equal—it could also be worse if there’s more delayed energy circulating around.  It’s an interesting curiosity to me.  I had always assumed that a well damped plastic decay would be better, but FiiO makes me wonder.


----------



## Ronion

Which brings me to my next point: wasn’t FiiO supposed to release the FF5 already?  

And my next point: FiiO’s Balanced foams should hit my target exactly one they reach their steady state of the FF3 barring a bit of treble.  I’m happy that what they consider balanced is what I consider balanced and that their research and my research seems to have led to the same thing.  The fact that they got such technicalities, power handling (especially in the low end for an earbud) out of a low impedance driver and in such a well built shell that fits me well makes me wish they will release the FF5 soon.  Hopefully they’ll show the graph again and it looks fairly similar But with a little more treble.  Anyway, I don’t mean to sing the FiiO praises, but it all seems noteworthy to me.  Bring in the FF5!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> Which brings me to my next point: wasn’t FiiO supposed to release the FF5 already?
> 
> And my next point: FiiO’s Balanced foams should hit my target exactly one they reach their steady state of the FF3 barring a bit of treble.  I’m happy that what they consider balanced is what I consider balanced and that their research and my research seems to have led to the same thing.  The fact that they got such technicalities, power handling (especially in the low end for an earbud) out of a low impedance driver and in such a well built shell that fits me well makes me wish they will release the FF5 soon.  Hopefully they’ll show the graph again and it looks fairly similar But with a little more treble.  Anyway, I don’t mean to sing the FiiO praises, but it all seems noteworthy to me.  Bring in the FF5!




All I have heard drom Fiio was that the FF5 would be released around September and I have heard other say that they heard September to October as the release window. If they stick to that, then we should be seeing the FF5s pretty dang soon. I'm eagerly awaiting their release!


----------



## ttorbic

Ronion said:


> Which brings me to my next point: wasn’t FiiO supposed to release the FF5 already?
> 
> And my next point: FiiO’s Balanced foams should hit my target exactly one they reach their steady state of the FF3 barring a bit of treble.  I’m happy that what they consider balanced is what I consider balanced and that their research and my research seems to have led to the same thing.  The fact that they got such technicalities, power handling (especially in the low end for an earbud) out of a low impedance driver and in such a well built shell that fits me well makes me wish they will release the FF5 soon.  Hopefully they’ll show the graph again and it looks fairly similar But with a little more treble.  Anyway, I don’t mean to sing the FiiO praises, but it all seems noteworthy to me.  Bring in the FF5!


I think it's a national holiday season in China until 7 Oct, so maybe after that?


----------



## Ronion

ttorbic said:


> I think it's a national holiday season in China until 7 Oct, so maybe after that?


I guess it isn’t the end of the world, but I sure am curious as to what they come up with.  I keep checking, but nothing.  Thanks for the information.  I just hope my expectations are not too high LOL


----------



## thedjkhalid

Hi there, need some help on eqing this certain frequency.

I just got my Smabat M2s Pro in the mail, sounds pretty good to me, but this frequency keeps murdering my ears and I am afraid to increase the volume.

In this song, it is this clapping? sound effect: 

@ 1:24 it is more emphasized, but it is used throughout the song.  (of course youtube audio is bad, and there is a major difference when I hear it in my music apps and on youtube, the youtube version does not kill my ears nearly as bad as on a music app)

Would really appreciate help on this, and if you have any eqs that you use specifically for the M2s Pro (stock driver) please let me know.


----------



## assassin10000

classfolkphile said:


> Is there anyone in the US that repairs earbuds?
> 
> I have a pair of Yinman 600 where one shell separated and the channel cut out. I've had that happen on several pairs of less expensive earbuds and it really upsets me as there's no reason it should occur.





classfolkphile said:


> Ok, so I tried them again and the right channel is now working once more. Although the face of the shell separated, the wires are still connected and I'm guessing there's a poor solder joint somewhere? I've never soldered and with something this small, I doubt I could do it with my large fingers.
> I previously glued the shell back together with Faller plastic glue but it didn't hold. For now I'll re-glue it and hope the channel doesn't go out again. If it does, I'll try to find a local A/V repair person and see what they can do.
> Or get completely frustrated and just throw them out.
> 
> ...





JAnonymous5150 said:


> It sounds like a contact issue. Getting the face back on may relieve stress on the contact and you might be fine. If it ends up having problems again and you need it fixed if I'm not travelling and all that I'll volunteer to solder them for you if that's ultimately what they need. You'd just need to ship them to me so I can do the work. I'd hate to see a beloved pair of buds go bad.
> 
> Good luck!



If it just needs resoldering (and re-attaching the face) I could as well, if he isn't available.

I'm also in CA, so you'd still have to ship it though.


----------



## samandhi

classfolkphile said:


> Ok, so I tried them again and the right channel is now working once more. Although the face of the shell separated, the wires are still connected and I'm guessing there's a poor solder joint somewhere? I've never soldered and with something this small, I doubt I could do it with my large fingers.
> I previously glued the shell back together with Faller plastic glue but it didn't hold. For now I'll re-glue it and hope the channel doesn't go out again. If it does, I'll try to find a local A/V repair person and see what they can do.
> Or get completely frustrated and just throw them out.
> 
> ...





JAnonymous5150 said:


> It sounds like a contact issue. Getting the face back on may relieve stress on the contact and you might be fine. If it ends up having problems again and you need it fixed if I'm not travelling and all that I'll volunteer to solder them for you if that's ultimately what they need. You'd just need to ship them to me so I can do the work. I'd hate to see a beloved pair of buds go bad.
> 
> Good luck!


I was going to offer the same thing. I am not a builder, but I DO have some soldering skills (and the tools to do so). 


Spoiler: Yihua 862BD+



Yihua 862BD+






The point is that as good as they are (IMHO) they are worth fixing. And if you don't have one of us fix it, you can take it to any place that does any sort of soldering as part of their service (e.g. phone repair, PC repair, Nintendo Switch repair, etc...). It shouldn't cost you very much at all being one (maybe two) solder joints.... 


baskingshark said:


> The NiceHCK EB2S is somewhat similar to the HD650 in tonality. Haven't heard the HD600, but maybe the others can give their advise!


I have not heard any earbuds that sound like the HD600. As for quantity of bass the Chaconne are very similar, but the HD600 are much more laid back (smooth) in the treble area. There aren't too many combinations like that in buds (that I have heard). I'm sure there are some out there though. If the FF3 had much less (quantity of) bass, they might sound pretty similar IMO. EQ could easily fix that. 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> All I have heard drom Fiio was that the FF5 would be released around September and I have heard other say that they heard September to October as the release window. If they stick to that, then we should be seeing the FF5s pretty dang soon. I'm eagerly awaiting their release!


Didn't someone on this thread share comments from Fiio saying that it was originally slated for fall this year, but it might be pushed back some? Maybe I am remembering it wrong though. 


thedjkhalid said:


> Hi there, need some help on eqing this certain frequency.
> 
> I just got my Smabat M2s Pro in the mail, sounds pretty good to me, but this frequency keeps murdering my ears and I am afraid to increase the volume.
> 
> ...



The easiest way to get rid of that (for me) is to use a 10 band GEQ (if you can), and subtract -4dB from 2K (or until your ears don't hurt, may be more, may be less), then add about +3dB to 1K, and about 2.5K to 4K (these are optional to make up for what the sound will lack after subtracting 2K). YMMV, but that should get you started IMO. All of these number could be more, could be less; just play around with it until it sounds good to you. In the end, after tweaking these three frequencies it SHOULD sound similar to what it did before you started but without the pain (assuming you like the stock tuning).


----------



## thedjkhalid

samandhi said:


> I was going to offer the same thing. I am not a builder, but I DO have some soldering skills (and the tools to do so).
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Yihua 862BD+
> ...


thank you for the tip!  i use a qudelix 5k so I'll be able to try it now.


----------



## samandhi

thedjkhalid said:


> thank you for the tip!  i use a qudelix 5k so I'll be able to try it now.


Let us know how it turns out?! If I can help further let me know.


----------



## thedjkhalid

samandhi said:


> Let us know how it turns out?! If I can help further let me know.


i am trying it out right now, and doing some a/b tests and wow.
it sounded so bloated in that 2k range, sounds much clearer now:
2000hz, -8.0db, q1.414
1000hz, +3.0db, q1.414
4000hz, +3.0db, q1.414

vocals sound much better but dont know if the surrounding spectrum is smoothed out now

surprised i needed -8.0db to tame it down, it feels like it fits in the song and not coming out and stabbing me.


----------



## samandhi

thedjkhalid said:


> i am trying it out right now, and doing some a/b tests and wow.
> it sounded so bloated in that 2k range, sounds much clearer now:
> 2000hz, -8.0db, q1.414
> 1000hz, +3.0db, q1.414
> ...


For me (with the M4) it was -6dB @2K... You might also need to add a tad bit to 8K because when you have a set that is boosted that much, the treble is normally tuned much more laid back IME (read, they are using that boost for perceived clarity in the treble area). But as always, YMMV with that. 

Sounds like you have a good handle on it now. Smabat really does make some good sounding drivers (albeit too piercing for my tastes OOTB). Fantastic!


----------



## thedjkhalid

samandhi said:


> For me (with the M4) it was -6dB @2K... You might also need to add a tad bit to 8K because when you have a set that is boosted that much, the treble is normally tuned much more laid back IME (read, they are using that boost for perceived clarity in the treble area). But as always, YMMV with that.
> 
> Sounds like you have a good handle on it now. Smabat really does make some good sounding drivers (albeit too piercing for my tastes OOTB). Fantastic!


thank you for the suggestion, i will work on 8k now.  

and although this is the only smabat i've had the chance to try out, it is indeed very piercing


----------



## samandhi (Oct 1, 2022)

thedjkhalid said:


> thank you for the suggestion, i will work on 8k now.
> 
> and although this is the only smabat i've had the chance to try out, it is indeed very piercing


It has been my experience with the M2s Pro that the stock driver is the MOST piercing (to my ears), and the rest aren't as bad (though they all are to some degree). The 32ohm driver is actually really good in the treble area, and the 100ohm driver is a great balance, and the 150ohm driver is the most bassy ("V" sound).... To my ears anyhow. If you can still procure these drivers you should give them a try. As @Ronion said before, "my favorite driver is the one that is currently in it" (I'm paraphrasing, of course).


----------



## thedjkhalid

samandhi said:


> It has been my experience with the M2s Pro that the stock driver is the MOST piercing (to my ears), and the rest aren't as bad (though they all are to some degree). The 32ohm driver is actually really good in the treble area, and the 100ohm driver is a great balance, and the 150ohm driver is the most bassy ("V" sound).... To my ears anyhow. If you can still procure these drivers you should give them a try. As @Ronion said before, "my favorite driver is the one that is currently in it" (I'm paraphrasing, of course).


the 100ohm driver seems intriguing to me, I do like a more balanced sound sig.

right now I am waiting on my trn ema to arrive (heard it was a pretty good stupid cheap earbud so I went ahead and got one) and am messing around with a tingo tc200 diy, and a hifiman he400se as well that I just got.  so some more buds will have to wait.


----------



## samandhi

thedjkhalid said:


> the 100ohm driver seems intriguing to me, I do like a more balanced sound sig.
> 
> right now I am waiting on my trn ema to arrive (heard it was a pretty good stupid cheap earbud so I went ahead and got one) and am messing around with a tingo tc200 diy, and a hifiman he400se as well that I just got.  so some more buds will have to wait.


The Super One 100ohm bio driver for the M2s Pro are my favorite (to my ears). Since the M4 came out, all of those have been discontinued, so if you can get a set (and are ever planning on owning them) now might be the only time to get them.... Just a heads up.. 

I have always been curious about the Hifiman HE400SE (owning the HE400S), but I have not been able to hear from anyone that has had both to compare. The HE400S has always been more akin to the HE400I (OG), but I have never been sure where the HE400SE fits (being much cheaper than both of those). And we know how terrible Hifiman is at naming their phones. Most times the naming only suggests they are in the same family, but in reality, they never are.


----------



## thedjkhalid

samandhi said:


> The Super One 100ohm bio driver for the M2s Pro are my favorite (to my ears). Since the M4 came out, all of those have been discontinued, so if you can get a set (and are ever planning on owning them) now might be the only time to get them.... Just a heads up..
> 
> I have always been curious about the Hifiman HE400SE (owning the HE400S), but I have not been able to hear from anyone that has had both to compare. The HE400S has always been more akin to the HE400I (OG), but I have never been sure where the HE400SE fits (being much cheaper than both of those). And we know how terrible Hifiman is at naming their phones. Most times the naming only suggests they are in the same family, but in reality, they never are.


thanks for the heads up!

not much i could tell you about comparing the he400se since it is the only one I have owned.

I have heard that a lot of the 400 series are pretty similar to each other

not a review but, in my experience so far, the bass is quite lacking, and I did remove the grill covers to see if it made a difference in sound and it did a little bit imo

i used the auto eq for the hifimans and it did improve the sound quite a bit imo but I still felt that bass was lacking even with the increase

unfortunately my qudelix 5k is brought to its knees trying to power this behemoth.  i even got a 2.5mm balanced cable (since the q5k gives some more power with that) and with the eq I was just at a barely okay noise level

my dad wanted to try it out and was asking for me to increase the volume... but I literally could not lol


----------



## samandhi (Oct 1, 2022)

thedjkhalid said:


> thanks for the heads up!
> 
> not much i could tell you about comparing the he400se since it is the only one I have owned.
> 
> ...


You are welcome!

I believe that the 400 series are indeed similar to each other (from reading about it) other than the OG HE400, which were pretty bassy (but had some major treble issues). Where they are pretty similar IMO is that they all have a more neutral bass tuning (similar to the HD600), and if you require bass quantity, these aren't the answer. If you prefer the neutrality they provide, the HE400 series are and outstanding (entry level audiophile) example of good planar headphones. As for my HE400S they DO take EQ well, and I can make them positively bassy (for me).

Planars are known for needing more power to push them (current) well. Even though the impedance and sensitivity would lead you to believe they are easy to drive, most of them will scale well with more amp. While they will never be bassy, adding more power will tighten things up, and not sound as sloppy (comparatively). Treble will be much better overall, and the overall signature will ultimately sound different(ish). 

Having said all of that, if you want to add more bass (especially mid bass) removing the grills won't accomplish that as much as changing the pad to leather pads will. Though removing the grills might add to the staging. Now, I don't know if the pads are the same as all the others in the 400 family, but try searching the HE400S thread for the ones to get. But generally it was decided the best sounding pads were the Focus A pads (not the regular Focus pads). The Brainwavz weren't great, but some liked them, and the Dekoni pads also weren't the best. I can say though, that changing to leather pads DID make a pretty sizeable difference (for both my HE400S, and my Focal Elegia).

There is also another trick you could try which is much cheaper and does indeed help quite a bit. Using cardboard, or cardstock (best option), you can make a cutout and place them in the pads. Here is a picture (not mine, but from the HE400S thread):



Spoiler: Attenuation Ring Mod










Edit: Apologies! I have gone way off topic once again.... 🤷‍♂️


----------



## thedjkhalid

samandhi said:


> You are welcome!
> 
> I believe that the 400 series are indeed similar to each other (from reading about it) other than the OG HE400, which were pretty bassy (but had some major treble issues). Where they are pretty similar IMO is that they all have a more neutral bass tuning (similar to the HD600), and if you require bass quantity, these aren't the answer. If you prefer the neutrality they provide, the HE400 series are and outstanding (entry level audiophile) example of good planar headphones. As for my HE400S they DO take EQ well, and I can make them positively bassy (for me).
> 
> ...


woah im gonna try that cardboard thing and see if it does help out, otherwise I would be interested in some pads for better bass.

I do like the sound signature, but I would like to feel the bass when the song asks for it.

thanks for the hacks!


----------



## samandhi

thedjkhalid said:


> woah im gonna try that cardboard thing and see if it does help out, otherwise I would be interested in some pads for better bass.
> 
> I do like the sound signature, but I would like to feel the bass when the song asks for it.
> 
> thanks for the hacks!


I would be interested in hearing how it turns out for you on this?!    

Also, if you end up getting any of the other drivers for the M2s Pro....


----------



## drewbadour (Oct 1, 2022)

So... given I cracked my Iris 2.0 Faceplate getting it opened up, I did not want to do the same to Rosemary which cost twice as much.

I know a lot of you don't like the Rosemary (and probably hate Faaeal) but I like it enough to use it fairly often but I did find it a bit muddy and too warm due to the bloaty bass.

Thanks to @RikudouGoku's help, I was able to fix that issue for a total of........ $0.

Basically... just tape one side of the back bass vents on each side (I used just used Scotch tape that I had lying around to cover the inner vents) and swapped out to the thinnest foams I had lying around and voila... bass tightens up a LOT and the warmth is reduced tastefully resulting in a lovely signature that sounds quite a bit more open and clean. Treble is more airy too.

My 150BG driver (will be my first attempt at diy) is still en route so I can't compare to stock but compared to the untaped Rosemary, the difference is night and day. Very happy with this $20 purchase! If any of you have Rosemary, I'd recommend giving it a try. Also...for those like me who aren't good with a soldering iron and can't easily build an earbud, this is a good way to get a good driver to play around with, even if the shell can't easily be popped open.


----------



## thedjkhalid

samandhi said:


> I would be interested in hearing how it turns out for you on this?!
> 
> Also, if you end up getting any of the other drivers for the M2s Pro....


will let you know!


----------



## o0genesis0o

drewbadour said:


> So... given I cracked my Iris 2.0 Faceplate getting it opened up, I did not want to do the same to Rosemary which cost twice as much.
> 
> I know a lot of you don't like the Rosemary (and probably hate Faaeal) but I like it enough to use it fairly often but I did find it a bit muddy and too warm due to the bloaty bass.
> 
> ...



Interesting. You reduce the amount of venting to the back (taping half of the vents), which should drop the bass quite a bit, and then you reduce the foam at the back of the driver, which tend to add a bit of bass. Interesting idea. I should try   

I tend to open as many vents as possible ("open back") and then increase foam to control the bass. Anyhow, geeking is fun. Looking forward for your first full DIY buds


----------



## thedjkhalid

drewbadour said:


> So... given I cracked my Iris 2.0 Faceplate getting it opened up, I did not want to do the same to Rosemary which cost twice as much.
> 
> I know a lot of you don't like the Rosemary (and probably hate Faaeal) but I like it enough to use it fairly often but I did find it a bit muddy and too warm due to the bloaty bass.
> 
> ...


personally i used a soldering iron just to put a hole in the shells lol

quick and also dangerous... for the earbud

the mod made it like 15-20% better to my ears

did the same on a tingo tc200 i had laying around, made it much better as well


----------



## drewbadour

thedjkhalid said:


> personally i used a soldering iron just to put a hole in the shells lol
> 
> quick and also dangerous... for the earbud
> 
> ...


Honestly I was thinking of doing the same once my shells arrive. Seems less likely ruin a shell than drilling


----------



## tendou

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I absolutely think so. I listen to mine quite often despite having many pairs of earbuds that would be considered better and more expensive. They do laid back and relaxed listening so well and are one of my favorite buds for listening to blues and bluesy rock in specific.
> 
> Edit: I'd like to add that maybe my set are significantly different somehow, but they aren't a basshead set by any means as @baskingshark described. Mine sound similar to the Sennheiser HD650s I own in terms of overall tuning and in terms of bass quanitity. I agree with them not being the mo
> 
> ...


I need to get the rosemary to try now.


baskingshark said:


> The NiceHCK EB2S is somewhat similar to the HD650 in tonality. Haven't heard the HD600, but maybe the others can give their advise!


Thanks!


----------



## Halimj7

I know this is a strange question… but are there any high quality earbuds that are warm and don’t leak sound. I prefer the comfort and fit of earbuds but want no leakage.


----------



## fooltoque

Halimj7 said:


> I know this is a strange question… but are there any high quality earbuds that are warm and don’t leak sound. I prefer the comfort and fit of earbuds but want no leakage.


It's just one of the design tradeoffs for earbuds. Sound is exchanged with the outside world, both in and out. I don't think you can get around this.


----------



## chinmie

Halimj7 said:


> I know this is a strange question… but are there any high quality earbuds that are warm and don’t leak sound. I prefer the comfort and fit of earbuds but want no leakage.



i think the closest to using open type earbuds with some noise isolation would be something with ANC tech, like Bose QC20 (wired) or Huawei freebuds 4 (wireless). the freebuds 4 battery is rather short though for today's standard, but the open earbud ANC works quite effective, and it sounds good too. 

Samsung Buds Live ANC also work good, but only if it fit in the ears deeper..i could only get it's ANC to work when i push it slightly in,but as soon as i let go, the ANC would be next to worthless. sounds quite good though, and the subbass reach is great while not pushing the midbass forward


----------



## thedjkhalid

drewbadour said:


> Honestly I was thinking of doing the same once my shells arrive. Seems less likely ruin a shell than drilling


i only did it since i dont have the shells and wiring to do it the conventional way

just gotta make sure you dont do it so quickly and melt the wire inside (of a retail unit)


----------



## mt877 (Oct 2, 2022)

After a tiring day of work, I couldn't help myself... here's my just finished build...
My "Blueberry", blue metal shell with 14.8mm Be driver, 8 core cable with 4.4mm Pentaconn and mmcx terminated.

Edit: As I listen more to these guys, man, they are right up there with some my purchased buds. I'm really happy right now.


----------



## mt877

o0genesis0o said:


> I used to play harmonica in the past, actually. Recorded a couple “albums” but I lost the source files. Luckily some friends / fans / (creeps?) kept the original MP3 and uploaded them to Vietnamese spotify knock-off. (Here and here). I was such a w*nker with inflated ego back then to record these “albums”


Nice! After the battery dies in your DAP when you're out hiking the Outback you can always keep harping on... I don't play as much as I used to, but I still noodle around on my harp.



Spoiler: Marine Band


----------



## JAnonymous5150

This DIY stuff is really fun. Disassembly and tuning revisions takes significantly less time than when you're doing it with over ears or even IEMs, but many of the lessons and tuning principles are proving useful already. 

I'm far from done with this bud, but I can say that these copper shells from NSC Audio are quite versatile. They are thick enough to be able to use minor grinding and shaping techniques as well as to attach othet metal components such as baffle plates, tubes, and mounting mechanisms if you have the proper tools and know what you're doing though you can easily destroy them with too much heat (can confirm, learned first hand lol).

So far I have too many ideas to execute in one bud, but I'm finding this very fun, educational, and very relaxing. I'm just out in my workshop listening to some tunes and making stuff. Add some cold beer and you've got yourself a great Saturday night. 

Plus my girl's out of town so I won't even have someone trying to enforce my bedtime! 😉

Currently exprimenting with tuning tubes and reflective plates...


----------



## KokushiTsumo

mt877 said:


> After a tiring day of work, I couldn't help myself... here's my just finished build...
> My "Blueberry", blue metal shell with 14.8mm Be driver, 8 core cable with 4.4mm Pentaconn and mmcx terminated.
> 
> Edit: As I listen more to these guys, man, they are right up there with some my purchased buds. I'm really happy right now.


Any recs for a 4.4mm balanced cable?


----------



## james444

Halimj7 said:


> I know this is a strange question… but are there any high quality earbuds that are warm and don’t leak sound. I prefer the comfort and fit of earbuds but want no leakage.



I'd point you to the new JBL Tune Flex TWS. They're side-firing earbuds, but with different tips like IEMs, which enable you to adjust the distance between nozzle opening and your ear canal.

They support sealed and open modes, out of which I'd recommend the latter, with ANC on and tips that leave just a tiny gap open. Great sound and very little leakage that way.


----------



## mt877

KokushiTsumo said:


> Any recs for a 4.4mm balanced cable?


What kind of 4.4mm balanced cable are you looking for? MMCX, 2 pin, XLR termination or not terminated at all? The cable that I used for that build was partially made. It came with the 4.4mm Pentaconn, but was not terminated because the metal shell came with the mmcx connector that I had to solder on. In general I don't swap out cables much unless I'm troubleshooting a connection problem, so I do keep a few inexpensive 4.4mm balanced cables around for that.

Here's a nice looking 16 core cable that you can order customized with different plugs (3.5mmSE, 4.4mm Balanced...) and different terminations ( MMCX, 2 pin, XLR...).






Here's a Litz cable that has different plugs and terminations.
This cable is from the NICEHCK store, they have many cables that you can check out.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

james444 said:


> I'd point you to the new JBL Tune Flex TWS. They're side-firing earbuds, but with different tips like IEMs, which enable you to adjust the distance between nozzle opening and your ear canal.
> 
> They support sealed and open modes, out of which I'd recommend the latter, with ANC on and tips that leave just a tiny gap open. Great sound and very little leakage that way.


Wow! Long time no see James! Hope you are well.


----------



## KokushiTsumo

mt877 said:


> What kind of 4.4mm balanced cable are you looking for? MMCX, 2 pin, XLR termination or not terminated at all? The cable that I used for that build was partially made. It came with the 4.4mm Pentaconn, but was not terminated because the metal shell came with the mmcx connector that I had to solder on. In general I don't swap out cables much unless I'm troubleshooting a connection problem, so I do keep a few inexpensive 4.4mm balanced cables around for that.
> 
> Here's a nice looking 16 core cable that you can order customized with different plugs (3.5mmSE, 4.4mm Balanced...) and different terminations ( MMCX, 2 pin, XLR...).
> 
> ...


Thank you very much 
Any idea if any are without MMCX or 2pin connectors?


----------



## mt877

KokushiTsumo said:


> Thank you very much
> Any idea if any are without MMCX or 2pin connectors?


This is the cable I used. Partial build 4.4mm Pentaconn. You can always just buy a complete cable and cut the MMCX or 2 pin connector off, it might even be cheaper than buying a cable without MMCX or 2 pin. Other people also buy the connectors and lengths of cable to custom make their own cables. So you have many choices for your creativity. If you search for cables or components on AE you might find some you like better or suit the look that you want.


----------



## KokushiTsumo

mt877 said:


> This is the cable I used. Partial build 4.4mm Pentaconn. You can always just buy a complete cable and cut the MMCX or 2 pin connector off, it might even be cheaper than buying a cable without MMCX or 2 pin. Other people also buy the connectors and lengths of cable to custom make their own cables. So you have many choices for your creativity. If you search for cables or components on AE you might find some you like better or suit the look that you want.


Thank you, exactly what I was looking for.

By the way, does anyone have any idea if these are real TG38s?


----------



## thedjkhalid

the smabat m4 is on sale today...  should I pull the trigger?

i did just receive my m2s pro yesterday and was happy with it after tweaking with eq... but the driver just died on me.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

KokushiTsumo said:


> Thank you, exactly what I was looking for.
> 
> By the way, does anyone have any idea if these are real TG38s?



They look like the legit TG-38s I have seen. I gave my pair away a couple months back, but that's how I remember them looking.


----------



## samandhi

thedjkhalid said:


> the smabat m4 is on sale today...  should I pull the trigger?
> 
> i did just receive my m2s pro yesterday and was happy with it after tweaking with eq... but the driver just died on me.


Nobody can really answer that one for you. Having said that, for $40 something they are at the very least a fantastic concept and a well built (and good looking too IMO) set of earbuds. To my ears, they don't sound the same as the M2s Pro (same(ish) overall signature but different acoustics), but I was able to use the same theory with EQ to alleviate the piercing (which to me seems a bit worse on the M4). The drivers are easier to deal with, and (ATM) it is cheaper. I think that the drivers used in the M4 are the same as was used in the M2s Pro (other than the ST20, and ST20 Pro drivers).

All that said, don't you have a warranty for the M2s Pro (and subsequently the driver), or did you buy them second hand?


----------



## thedjkhalid

samandhi said:


> Nobody can really answer that one for you. Having said that, for $40 something they are at the very least a fantastic concept and a well built (and good looking too IMO) set of earbuds. To my ears, they don't sound the same as the M2s Pro (same(ish) overall signature but different acoustics), but I was able to use the same theory with EQ to alleviate the piercing (which to me seems a bit worse on the M4). The drivers are easier to deal with, and (ATM) it is cheaper. I think that the drivers used in the M4 are the same as was used in the M2s Pro (other than the ST20, and ST20 Pro drivers).
> 
> All that said, don't you have a warranty for the M2s Pro (and subsequently the driver), or did you buy them second hand?


I bought them on aliexpress so I do have the option to return or ask for exchange, but I just noticed the sale so wanted to see which option to go with.

So the M4 has the same stock driver as the M2s Pro?  Is the bass response more noticeable in the M4 in your experience?  I do like the neutral-ish sound signature with a bump in the bass, after taming those harsh mids.  When I eq'd the m2s pro I did add a ~3db boost to the lows as well, but wondering if the M4 would need that.  I bought the M2s Pro since quite a few people said the bass was good, however to me in most of my songs it felt lacking.


----------



## samandhi

thedjkhalid said:


> I bought them on aliexpress so I do have the option to return or ask for exchange, but I just noticed the sale so wanted to see which option to go with.
> 
> So the M4 has the same stock driver as the M2s Pro?  Is the bass response more noticeable in the M4 in your experience?  I do like the neutral-ish sound signature with a bump in the bass, after taming those harsh mids.  When I eq'd the m2s pro I did add a ~3db boost to the lows as well, but wondering if the M4 would need that.  I bought the M2s Pro since quite a few people said the bass was good, however to me in most of my songs it felt lacking.


OIC. 

Yes, they are the same driver (IIRC). In my experience with both the M2s Pro and the M4, the stock (40ohm) driver doesn't have the bass that the other (especially higher ohm) drivers have. I would say that they sound very similar overall, so what you are hearing with the M2s Pro you will hear similar with the M4 (just a bit of a difference in the shell makeup). But to me, the good stuff is really in the other drivers you can get for both/either of them (not that the 40ohm driver is bad by any means). 

So, if given a choice of only one of them (knowing what I know about both), if I were going for sound quality alone, the M2s Pro are just a tad bit better to my ears, but the M4 are overall nicer (more mature). I would say that if the 2k region doesn't bother you, then you really can't go wrong with either.

If you have the money, I would buy the m4 and exchange the M2s Pro and have both to compare for yourself...  Though I would highly encourage you to get at least the 150ohm Ti driver or the Super One 100ohm bio driver for both (if you can). Or (not to throw too much of a curve ball at ya') the ST10S B&G (150ohm Ti) is still available also, and those have some REALLY good bass response. Just my $.02 though!


----------



## thedjkhalid

samandhi said:


> OIC.
> 
> Yes, they are the same driver (IIRC). In my experience with both the M2s Pro and the M4, the stock (40ohm) driver doesn't have the bass that the other (especially higher ohm) drivers have. I would say that they sound very similar overall, so what you are hearing with the M2s Pro you will hear similar with the M4 (just a bit of a difference in the shell makeup). But to me, the good stuff is really in the other drivers you can get for both/either of them (not that the 40ohm driver is bad by any means).
> 
> ...


Hmm in that case I would probably lean towards the M4.  Is the fit better?  The M2s Pro's fit was pretty okay/good for me, compared to mx500s.  Wasn't uncomfortable.

I have heard many things about the ST10s driver, especially on the DIY end.  I think I will probably choose between the Super One driver and ST10s and looking into it more.


----------



## DBaldock9

samandhi said:


> You should have gotten the 150Ti driver if that is what you were looking for IMO. It is the same as was/is in the ST10S B&G. Though it still doesn't have as deep of bass as the ST10S B&G in the M4 (probably the shell coming into play here). It IS bassier than the 100 bio driver though. And I would agree with you that the 100 bio seems to be the more balanced sounding driver.





DBaldock9 said:


> Well, since I actually have my oddball 300-Ω ST-10s (Gold/Black) earbuds, I figured it would be a good idea to try a different driver for the M4.
> .
> One thing I haven't tried yet, is the different dampers that were also in the order. I know that somewhere back in this thread, it was mentioned what the different numbered dampers do. Was that info provided by testing, or is there a clear description on a web page somewhere?



With the Smabat sale today, I did order another pair of M4 housings, and the 150-Ω ST-10s drivers - as well as a set of Black Bats.


----------



## FranQL

DBaldock9 said:


> With the Smabat sale today, I did order another pair of M4 housings, and the 150-Ω ST-10s drivers - as well as a set of Black Bats.


I have blackbat, I would love to know your opinion about them


----------



## samandhi

thedjkhalid said:


> Hmm in that case I would probably lean towards the M4.  Is the fit better?  The M2s Pro's fit was pretty okay/good for me, compared to mx500s.  Wasn't uncomfortable.
> 
> I have heard many things about the ST10s driver, especially on the DIY end.  I think I will probably choose between the Super One driver and ST10s and looking into it more.


The fitment is the same on both. The M4 and M2s Pro are almost identical, except the M4 is a tad bigger (in all proportions), but the driver appears to be the same size, so if the M2s Pro fit you then the M4 would also fit.


DBaldock9 said:


> With the Smabat sale today, I did order another pair of M4 housings, and the 150-Ω ST-10s drivers - as well as a set of Black Bats.


To my ears the 150ohm Ti driver in the M4 is different enough that you won't regret the purchase (solely based on having two buds that sound just alike). Now, whether you like it or not still has yet to be seen (heard ). Do let us (me) know, as I am curious?! @mt877 reports that (to his ears) they sound the same or very near (IIRC), but I find them quite different sounding.


----------



## dsonance (Oct 2, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> They look like the legit TG-38s I have seen. I gave my pair away a couple months back, but that's how I remember them looking.


I think, the picture might be misleading. The disclaimer in the item description says that they do not have the manufacturer's name on them anymore. I just got a pair from Chitty's Store last week, and it's the same story: the picture didn't quite match what I received


----------



## dsonance

Just got my Longyao Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600Ω Limited Edition, and have been testing driving it with Fiio BTR7. My (completely) untrained ears have not been able to detect any problems so far. All they are telling me is that the two sound really lovely together. But, can I trust their uneducated opinion? 

My testing was mostly done with Tidal running on NVidia Shield, connected to BTR7 over BT LDAC. With the gain on High and the balanced boost setting turned on, the highest volume I needed on the BTR7 was 32 (out of 60). Many tracks didn't need it higher than 20-22. The sound has been clean and detailed, the soundstage was what I would expect on a given track, and the imaging and layering seemed to be great too. I have JDS Atom and ZEN CAN to compare the results with, but am having hard time finding a track that would sound noticeably better with the more power available, on either one of those two desktop amps.

What would you guys suggest I should try listening to, to expose BTR7 for the imperfect source it's got to be?

(To be honest, I won't be TOO sad if, in fact, BTR7 is NOT imperfect  But, I want to make sure it earns that distinction fairly.)


----------



## Fabulo

samandhi said:


> Nobody can really answer that one for you. Having said that, for $40 something they are at the very least a fantastic concept and a well built (and good looking too IMO) set of earbuds. To my ears, they don't sound the same as the M2s Pro (same(ish) overall signature but different acoustics), but I was able to use the same theory with EQ to alleviate the piercing (which to me seems a bit worse on the M4). The drivers are easier to deal with, and (ATM) it is cheaper. I think that the drivers used in the M4 are the same as was used in the M2s Pro (other than the ST20, and ST20 Pro drivers).
> 
> All that said, don't you have a warranty for the M2s Pro (and subsequently the driver), or did you buy them second hand?


According to their website, the stock driver of the M4 is a 40ohm lcp instead the M2s Pro have a 40ohm titanium. Do you find any differences using the same driver on both earbuds? Especially in the high frequencies which are the ones that I find most fatiguing


----------



## samandhi (Oct 2, 2022)

dsonance said:


> Just got my Longyao Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600Ω Limited Edition, and have been testing driving it with Fiio BTR7. My (completely) untrained ears have not been able to detect any problems so far. All they are telling me is that the two sound really lovely together. But, can I trust their uneducated opinion?
> 
> My testing was mostly done with Tidal running on NVidia Shield, connected to BTR7 over BT LDAC. With the gain on High and the balanced boost setting turned on, the highest volume I needed on the BTR7 was 32 (out of 60). Many tracks didn't need it higher than 20-22. The sound has been clean and detailed, the soundstage was what I would expect on a given track, and the imaging and layering seemed to be great too. I have JDS Atom and ZEN CAN to compare the results with, but am having hard time finding a track that would sound noticeably better with the more power available, on either one of those two desktop amps.
> 
> ...


To be honest, does it really matter? If you can't tell a difference, and enjoy the sound from the FiiO device, then I would say it doesn't get better....  I would simply enjoy them.

Besides it may not come down to perfect or imperfect. No DAPs/amps are perfect. But... instead think of it as a perfect synergy (for you).

Congrats on your new shiny!  


Fabulo said:


> According to their website, the stock driver of the M4 is a 40ohm lcp instead the M2s Pro have a 40ohm titanium. Do you find any differences using the same driver on both earbuds? Especially in the high frequencies which are the ones that I find most fatiguing


You are correct (my memory isn't what it used to be). I find that the two different 40ohm drivers sound very similar in the M2s Pro. The tuning is pretty much the same(ish).

 To my ears, I find the M2s Pro to sound a bit better with all the drivers (that I have anyhow) comparatively speaking to the M4 that is. Having said that, I think you might have to have them side by side to really tell the difference (except that the pina gain is a bit hotter to my ears with the M4 on all drivers). This problem is solved by doing some really simple EQ though (nothing fancy needed here IMO).

As for treble, and because of the boosted pina gain, I find the treble to be present, but a bit recessed or laid back so that it doesn't sound over done mixed with that added presence region. When subtracting dB at 2K I find that I need to boost the treble a bit to give it some sparkle.

These are all my opinions and YMMV!  There might be others that feel quite the opposite of what I have suggested here.


----------



## Fabulo

samandhi said:


> To be honest, does it really matter? If you can't tell a difference, and enjoy the sound from the FiiO device, then I would say it doesn't get better....  I would simply enjoy them.
> 
> Besides it may not come down to perfect or imperfect. No DAPs/amps are perfect. But... instead think of it as a perfect synergy (for you).
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info, I was considering the upgrade to the M4 but I will keep my M2s Pro with the stock driver and the 150ohm titanium.

One last question, considering that in my opinion the two titanium drivers sound more or less the same (the 150 has more bass and is better in everything but the general tuning is the same) do you know an IEM that sounds similar?


----------



## dsonance

samandhi said:


> To be honest, does it really matter? If you can't tell a difference, and enjoy the sound from the FiiO device, then I would say it doesn't get better....  I would simply enjoy them.
> 
> Besides it may not come down to perfect or imperfect. No DAPs/amps are perfect. But... instead think of it as a perfect synergy (for you).
> 
> Congrats on your new shiny!


Thank you, @samandhi ! I am thoroughly enjoying the Yinman!
And, the credit goes to you and @WoodyLuvr: it was based on your recommendations in this thread that I got them. So, many thanks for that too! 

But, for the science of it  I would still like to find a way to clearly determine if the amplification is optimal. Even if, in my case, ignorance is bliss, for sure.



Spoiler


----------



## JAnonymous5150

dsonance said:


> Just got my Longyao Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600Ω Limited Edition, and have been testing driving it with Fiio BTR7. My (completely) untrained ears have not been able to detect any problems so far. All they are telling me is that the two sound really lovely together. But, can I trust their uneducated opinion?
> 
> My testing was mostly done with Tidal running on NVidia Shield, connected to BTR7 over BT LDAC. With the gain on High and the balanced boost setting turned on, the highest volume I needed on the BTR7 was 32 (out of 60). Many tracks didn't need it higher than 20-22. The sound has been clean and detailed, the soundstage was what I would expect on a given track, and the imaging and layering seemed to be great too. I have JDS Atom and ZEN CAN to compare the results with, but am having hard time finding a track that would sound noticeably better with the more power available, on either one of those two desktop amps.
> 
> ...



@samandhi nailed it! If it sounds perfect to you and the performance is making your ears happy then that's all that matters. What anyone else says about them scaling with more power and all that stuff is irrelevant if your ears can't hear it. It doesn't mean that either side is wrong, it just proves what we all already know which is that this is a hobby built on subjective experiences. 

FWIW, I think the 600s scale with power, but to my ears, not to the degree that some other owners do. Part of the reason I love exchanging experiences and thoughts regarding head-fi gear and music/audio is because I think It's so cool how a single piece of gear or a single song can be experienced in completely different ways by any given person. Not only is it fun compare those different experiences, but it's a great way to keep yourself grounded by being cognizant of just how diverse the perspectives in this world can be on even the smallest thing. That's just a great life lesson to be reminded of on a regular basis, IMO.

I'm stoked that you're diggin' the 600s. As I have asked a few other times in different posts recently, don't you just love it when a purchase exceeds expectations? I know I do!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

dsonance said:


> Thank you, @samandhi ! I am thoroughly enjoying the Yinman!
> And, the credit goes to you and @WoodyLuvr: it was based on your recommendations in this thread that I got them. So, many thanks for that too!
> 
> But, for the science of it  I would still like to find a way to clearly determine if the amplification is optimal. Even if, in my case, ignorance is bliss, for sure.
> ...



BTW, if you look back in this thread a couple weeks ago people did the math about to show the amplification requirements when we were discussing the VE Megatron and the Yinman 600s.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

first update of my work

some impressions from my friends:


Spoiler: first



short I listen to Riobads and it's just something incredible🤯 But I can't figure out what kind of speakers I put in. There was a handful that were not very good in mx500 cases. I took the first ones that came across. And I'm just freaking out from the sound now😱





Spoiler: second(need translate)



https://telegra.ph/Obzortestirovanie-samodelnyh-vkladyshejtabletok-DIY-ot-Romana-on-zhe-RIO-09-29


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Mr.HiAudio said:


> first update of my work
> 
> some impressions from my friends:
> 
> ...



Good stuff! I don't remember if you mentioned this before, but what's your plan for the future with these shells/buds? Are you planning to sell or distribute them and if so, how? This looks like a cool project and I like your enthusiasm for it. 👍😎


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> To my ears the 150ohm Ti driver in the M4 is different enough that you won't regret the purchase (solely based on having two buds that sound just alike). Now, whether you like it or not still has yet to be seen (heard ). Do let us (me) know, as I am curious?! @mt877 reports that (to his ears) they sound the same or very near (IIRC), but I find them quite different sounding.


I just got a Dayton Audio iMM-6 and been playing with REW to get some FR graphs. I've read a few tutorials on how to setup REW and used the Dayton calibration file for my iMM-6. Other tutorial says it's better to not use the calibration file and do a manual calibration. Right now I'm using the headphone / microphone  female TRRS jack on my laptop and it seems to be working ok(?). It's all still new to me, so forgive me for any mistakes. Anyway here's what I got for ST10s B&G 150 vs M4 ST10s 150. There are differences in the FR graphs, but also similarities as well. I took 5 FR readings for each driver and was going to average the 5 readings per driver together, but there was no reason to average them because the 5 FR graphs per driver were exactly the same.


----------



## dsonance

JAnonymous5150 said:


> BTW, if you look back in this thread a couple weeks ago people did the math about to show the amplification requirements when we were discussing the VE Megatron and the Yinman 600s.


Yeah, those calculations are part of the reason I'm thinking BTR7 can't be optimal... But, with the boost on, and at the lower volume, perhaps it is  

I wish I could measure the actual power output, and see how much is getting drawn. According to Amir's measurements here - if I'm reading them correctly - BTR7 should be able to output over 5.7 Vrms with the 600 Ohm load. But, the math I've seen earlier in this thread seems to indicate that's not quite enough.

In any case, I'm curious what people are using to test how well different phones scale with power. I'm thinking, apart from just the sheer enjoyment of music (conditioned as that is by the subjective differences we all have in likes, dislikes, and perceptions in general), there's also an element of critical listening skill that can be developed. I'd love to learn more about how you guys approach this.


----------



## jeejack

thedjkhalid said:


> I bought them on aliexpress so I do have the option to return or ask for exchange, but I just noticed the sale so wanted to see which option to go with.
> 
> So the M4 has the same stock driver as the M2s Pro?  Is the bass response more noticeable in the M4 in your experience?  I do like the neutral-ish sound signature with a bump in the bass, after taming those harsh mids.  When I eq'd the m2s pro I did add a ~3db boost to the lows as well, but wondering if the M4 would need that.  I bought the M2s Pro since quite a few people said the bass was good, however to me in most of my songs it felt lacking.


As far as I know, stock drivers are different. M4 comes with LCP driver. Only the impedance is the same


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Oct 3, 2022)

dsonance said:


> Yeah, those calculations are part of the reason I'm thinking BTR7 can't be optimal... But, with the boost on, and at the lower volume, perhaps it is
> 
> I wish I could measure the actual power output, and see how much is getting drawn. According to Amir's measurements here - if I'm reading them correctly - BTR7 should be able to output over 5.7 Vrms with the 600 Ohm load. But, the math I've seen earlier in this thread seems to indicate that's not quite enough.
> 
> In any case, I'm curious what people are using to test how well different phones scale with power. I'm thinking, apart from just the sheer enjoyment of music (conditioned as that is by the subjective differences we all have in likes, dislikes, and perceptions in general), there's also an element of critical listening skill that can be developed. I'd love to learn more about how you guys approach this.



My critical listening skills have developed by spending decades listening critically in as many situations to as much different gear and music/audio as possible. Whether that's monitoring my own performances live or in the studio, reviewing studio mixing and mastering on my own and my band's recordings, listening for and analyizing the differences between different versions of a given track or album (remasters/remixes released after an initial release), comparing and contrasting audio gear, analyzing musicians' performances in live and recorded settings to improve my own, etc.

Another key element has been educating myself about concepts important to critical listening like timbre, tone, imaging, separation, mixing and mastering techniques, styles, and shortcomings, recording techniques, manufacturing and tuning techniques, etc. The list goes on and on, but the important thing is to absorb information and learn about as many different facets of audio, music, and gear as you can. The more you listen to and compare and contrast gear and music and the more you educate yourself about the concepts of what to listen for the better you'll get at picking up in differences, nuances, and subtleties.

That said, all of that may not be something you end up wanting to do. I've become better at it now, but at one point I found it very difficult to turn off the critical side and just enjoy music once I got deep into it and it nearly deatroyed my love for the head-fi related hobbies. Only you can determine that, but I'll just say that it's important to maintain a balance between critical listening and musical enjoyment and to make sure you allow plenty of time for both.

As to your first question about scaling, having several different sources of amplification with varying degrees of available power on tap is the best way to determine how well a given transducer scales for you. You start listening on a lower powered setup and move up until you reach a level where there is no longer a performance increase with additional power. The thing with the math I mentioned earlier is that it doesn't account for all variables including our own limitations as listeners so the numbers don't always align with experience, but they are useful indicators.

I hope this was helpful and not just me rambling. 😉🤘

Edit: I should note that by differing degrees of power on tap I mean both varying mW or W as well as varying levels of voltage. The wattage will give you volume, but some drivers need increased current to really shine. Increased current can be just as important if not moreso as increased wattage when looking at scalability of harder to drive transducers.


----------



## mt877

Just another post to compare the official published FiiO FF3 FR graph vs what I captured. This post is just a reality check to be sure my captures aren't way off base.

Official published FF3 FR graph (no foams):





My capture of FF3 with no foams vs balanced foams:




I believe I'm capturing ok(?). While my capture doesn't exactly match the officially released FR graph, it is close enough considering FiiO uses a high level measuring rig vs the very low cost Dayton Audio iMM-6.


----------



## Ronion

KokushiTsumo said:


> Thank you, exactly what I was looking for.
> 
> By the way, does anyone have any idea if these are real TG38s?


It’s impossible to tell without opening them up unfortunately.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> Just another post to compare the official published FiiO FF3 FR graph vs what I captured. This post is just a reality check to be sure my captures aren't way off base.
> 
> Official published FF3 FR graph (no foams):
> 
> ...




Nice work! I have played around with the iMM-6 before and it's a neat piece of gear. My friend and I were checking it's measurements against my meticulously assembled standardized rig and it does a pretty good job. I don't really care to have my whole measurment setup going right now, but I have been thinking about picking up one of these Daytons for checking a few things while working on my DIY earbud projects in the future. I mean, regardless of how well it measures versus other rigs, it certainly seemed to me to be consistent enough to show me differences made by tuning revisions versus previous measurements taken with the IMM-6 as well. Kinda can't beat it for the cash.


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Nice work! I have played around with the iMM-6 before and it's a neat piece of gear. My friend and I were checking it's measurements against my meticulously assembled standardized rig and it does a pretty good job. I don't really care to have my whole measurment setup going right now, but I have been thinking about picking up one of these Daytons for checking a few things while working on my DIY earbud projects in the future. I mean, regardless of how well it measures versus other rigs, it certainly seemed to me to be consistent enough to show me differences made by tuning revisions versus previous measurements taken with the IMM-6 as well. Kinda can't beat it for the cash.


I read the Dayton UMM-6 (calibrated usb mic) gets better measurements with REW than the iMM-6. With the UMM-6, it's basically plug-n-play with REW. Connect the UMM-6, load the calibration file into REW and make readings. That's the simplified version, but you get what I'm saying. Unless I find the iMM-6 is totally lacking, I'm gonna stick with it for now.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

dsonance said:


> Thank you, @samandhi ! I am thoroughly enjoying the Yinman!
> And, the credit goes to you and @WoodyLuvr: it was based on your recommendations in this thread that I got them. So, many thanks for that too!
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Do I spy a new variation of the wooden box they are sent in?


----------



## Ronion

mt877 said:


> I just got a Dayton Audio iMM-6 and been playing with REW to get some FR graphs. I've read a few tutorials on how to setup REW and used the Dayton calibration file for my iMM-6. Other tutorial says it's better to not use the calibration file and do a manual calibration. Right now I'm using the headphone / microphone  female TRRS jack on my laptop and it seems to be working ok(?). It's all still new to me, so forgive me for any mistakes. Anyway here's what I got for ST10s B&G 150 vs M4 ST10s 150. There are differences in the FR graphs, but also similarities as well. I took 5 FR readings for each driver and was going to average the 5 readings per driver together, but there was no reason to average them because the 5 FR graphs per driver were exactly the same.


Very interesting and cool.  Let’s troubleshoot a minute: How are you connecting the driver to the mic?


----------



## mt877

Ronion said:


> Very interesting and cool.  Let’s troubleshoot a minute: How are you connecting the driver to the mic?


The easiest way possible. Anybody using the iMM-6 should use this publicly recommended and released earbud adapter.


----------



## dsonance

WoodyLuvr said:


> Do I spy a new variation of the wooden box they are sent in?


Yes, @WoodyLuvr , that's the box they were sent in. I included it in the picture especially for you


----------



## dsonance

Ronion said:


> It’s impossible to tell without opening them up unfortunately.


I received mine last week (ordered from Chitty's Store), and am facing the same dilemma. @Ronion, what says you I send them to you for research?


----------



## Ronion

mt877 said:


> The easiest way possible. Anybody using the iMM-6 should use this publicly recommended and released earbud adapter.


I have that adapter as well.  I actually want to use it for other purposes.  Maybe I should use it and we could compare notes…. I was just about to start working on a bud tuning tonight.


----------



## Ronion (Oct 3, 2022)

dsonance said:


> I received mine last week (ordered from Chitty's Store), and am facing the same dilemma. @Ronion, what says you I send them to you for research?


They can be a dicey opening.  Some of them are glued, some of them are not.  If they are not, they are easy and tuning them to something special is also easy and I could tell you how.  If the driver looks like this, it’s a good one.


----------



## mt877 (Oct 3, 2022)

Ronion said:


> I have that adapter as well.  I actually want to use it for other purposes.  Maybe I should use it and we could compare notes…. I was just about to start working on a bud tuning tonight.


I had it 3D printed with an elastic rubber like material, not hard PLA. Maybe the resonance and sound reflections of mine will be different then yours?


----------



## dsonance

JAnonymous5150 said:


> My critical listening skills have developed by spending decades listening critically in as many situations to as much different gear and music/audio as possible. Whether that's monitoring my own performances live or in the studio, reviewing studio mixing and mastering on my own and my band's recordings, listening for and analyizing the differences between different versions of a given track or album (remasters/remixes released after an initial release), comparing and contrasting audio gear, analyzing musicians' performances in live and recorded settings to improve my own, etc.
> 
> Another key element has been educating myself about concepts important to critical listening like timbre, tone, imaging, separation, mixing and mastering techniques, styles, and shortcomings, recording techniques, manufacturing and tuning techniques, etc. The list goes on and on, but the important thing is to absorb information and learn about as many different facets of audio, music, and gear as you can. The more you listen to and compare and contrast gear and music and the more you educate yourself about the concepts of what to listen for the better you'll get at picking up in differences, nuances, and subtleties.
> 
> ...


This is very helpful. I was trying to do something like that, using BTR7, Atom and ZEN CAN. In fact, I got the two latter ones specifically for that purpose - I don't need a desktop setup otherwise. Every amp did change the sound slightly, as would be expected from the different circuitries involved, but the only clear improvement I could hear was going from the SE BTR7 output to its balanced one, and from the lower gain settings on ZEN CAN to the higher ones.

How about the track selection? Do you use something bass-heavy, something with a complex multi-layered soundstage, a wide dynamic range, etc.? Any specific recs?


----------



## barato

Wow, surprising to see there still is such an active earbud thread, I had noticed this thread for while but not looked at it until now and had just assumed it would include IEMs, and the title was a remnant from 2009.

Earbuds have just started to pique my interest for a few reasons.

First thing is that they have have larger drivers than virtually all IEMs (15mm vs <=10mm).

Larger drivers are more efficient and better equipped to produce bass, this is very true for speaker drivers and I have actually noticed a similar pattern in cheap IEMs I've owned, 10mm always felt more weighty and effortless in the bass compared to smaller 6-8mm. 
Even now comparing the cheaper CX300s with the IE300 I can notice the same thing, the IE300 bass is much tighter and detailed yet the CX300s bass has a more realistic weight and presence to it.
I value bass a lot and would to see some good earbuds can do.

Second thing is impedance, I just noticed a lot of earbuds here are not limited to low impedances like IEMs are(<32 ohm, usually 16ohm).
Amplifiers do not like driving very low impedances and while low impedance may offer greater voltage sensitivity this is not really necessary  even for portable use in my experience.
300 ohm HD650 can get uncomfortably loud on ever portable device I've ever owned, though manufacturers do like to advertise ridiculous SPL for their IEM which people see and automatically assume louder = better.
Greater voltage sensitivity also means noise and interference gets amplified, this is actually a big issue for a lot of amps and higher impedance would solve it and amps would be happier too.



Is it true that earbuds are not actually good at producing deep bass? 

I been looking at the TRN EMX which is not too expensive and looks like it might be decent performer, the published graph show flat bass but this review shows significant  rolloff which the reviewer both heard and confirmed with measurements, and even went on to say that is typical for earbuds
Considering that earbuds do seal like IEMs I feel like this could actually be true... Any comment?


----------



## Ronion

mt877 said:


> I had it 3D printed with an elastic rubber like material, not hard PLA. Maybe the resonance and sound reflections of mine will be different then yours?


Most likely, but here's what I got of the ff3 without foams:



The 80Hz bass bump is actually my fan running in the background so ignore it.  I'd say judging by what we are seeing that if you can buy a fairly realistic rubbery human ear, you'd be much better off.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

dsonance said:


> This is very helpful. I was trying to do something like that, using BTR7, Atom and ZEN CAN. In fact, I got the two latter ones specifically for that purpose - I don't need a desktop setup otherwise. Every amp did change the sound slightly, as would be expected from the different circuitries involved, but the only clear improvement I could hear was going from the SE BTR7 output to its balanced one, and from the lower gain settings on ZEN CAN to the higher ones.
> 
> How about the track selection? Do you use something bass-heavy, something with a complex multi-layered soundstage, a wide dynamic range, etc.? Any specific recs?



Your various rigs should provide you with enough in the way of amplification variety to test scalability pretty well.

For track selection the style or whether it has heavy bass and such isn't nearly as important as some other things. First and most important in my book for test tracks of anything comparitive is to use a track or tracks you know like the back of your hand which is why me recommending one for you wouldn't be too helpful. 

After that a large dynamic range both in terms of volume of the various instruments and sounds (from very soft to very loud) as well as complete sonic range from lows/bass through mids to the highs/treble. This is especially useful in scalability tests because tracks like these are very good at showing whether a driver is being provided with enough amplification to reproduce dynamics throughout it's sonic range. An inability to do that is one of the easiest signs to spot that a driver doesn't have enough power or current assuming you know that this is a quality transducer that should be capable of such performance.

Also, using tracks of the best resolution available to you always makes subtle differences in detail, dynamics, and resolution easy to hear. Ideally you'd also like to have alternate tracks available that or very busy or musically layered and tracks that have easily heard sources of micro details, sustain, and decay like cymbal crashes while not much else is going on or certain solo instrumental tracks because they'll allow you to hear if a driver is being powered well enough to reproduce those details and nuances ornif they're blunted or missing altogether from being underpowered.

All of this assumes that you know the transducer is capable of reproducing these traits when driven properly to begin with. For something like the Yinman 600s, there is enough of a track record from reviews and comments to know that they are. For more obscure transducers or for resolution comparisons you have to determine this yourself by using a setup that undoubtedly has the power and detail to feed the transducer and then listen.

Does all that make sense?


----------



## dsonance

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Your various rigs should provide you with enough in the way of amplification variety to test scalability pretty well.
> 
> For track selection the style or whether it has heavy bass and such isn't nearly as important as some other things. First and most important in my book for test tracks of anything comparitive is to use a track or tracks you know like the back of your hand which is why me recommending one for you wouldn't be too helpful.
> 
> ...


Absolutely. This is an excellent write-up! Thank you!


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Oct 3, 2022)

dsonance said:


> Absolutely. This is an excellent write-up! Thank you!



Any time, my friend! If I can ever help you with anything feel free to post it and tag me in it or shoot me a PM and I'll always get back to you as soon as I have a chance. The last couple months I have been around a lot, but my schedule is ramping up so that's likely to change a bit. That said, I try to check my PMs at least a couple times a day because I have some running conversations going on so I'll see it and get back to you sooner or later.

Edit: Also, I'm a bit of an insomniac so I often end up tooling around on head-fi in the wee hours as well lol!


----------



## tendou

Would a 100setting when you plug the earbuds into a DAC amp connected to a computer blow them?
And how to know the driver is compromised?


----------



## samandhi (Oct 3, 2022)

Fabulo said:


> Thanks for the info, I was considering the upgrade to the M4 but I will keep my M2s Pro with the stock driver and the 150ohm titanium.
> 
> One last question, considering that in my opinion the two titanium drivers sound more or less the same (the 150 has more bass and is better in everything but the general tuning is the same) do you know an IEM that sounds similar?


It is very hard to correlate directly the sound from an earbud and sound from an IEM (they are more akin to open back headphones). And really, I would say it the other way around; there are a couple of earbuds that sound like IEMs (rather than IEMs that sound like earbuds). 

Having said that, I don't have any (but one) that sound anything like an earbud (especially this one). For me the OG Tinhifi P1 sound fairly similar to this one. Most IEMs nowadays do have a bass boost, so it is not easy to find these days. The P1 are considered by those that like big bass to be bass light, but to my ears it is all there, just in less quantities than most listen to nowadays (much like the HD600s are).

As for similar overall properties (boosted pina gain namely), most IEMs by DUNU could be considered similar. But, not having owned or presently owning any, I would defer to others here that might have a set that sound similar.


dsonance said:


> Thank you, @samandhi ! I am thoroughly enjoying the Yinman!
> And, the credit goes to you and @WoodyLuvr: it was based on your recommendations in this thread that I got them. So, many thanks for that too!
> 
> But, for the science of it  I would still like to find a way to clearly determine if the amplification is optimal. Even if, in my case, ignorance is bliss, for sure.
> ...


You are very welcome! I am glad you are enjoying them. I love mine a TON still.

As for the science, to be honest, it is not going to be exact but only ideal numbers because most manufacturers either inflate or leave out numbers (in the weak spots) to make them appear better than they really are. Having said that, here are the numbers I found for the BTR7:

Power output @600 (according to their numbers):

5.7Vrms
54.15mW
9.5mA
Power needed to drive Yinmans to 110dBSPL:

6.93Vrms
80mW
11.5mA
So, according to the math and given their numbers it should not be able to drive them to 110dBSPL let alone drive them well. However, I suspect that these numbers may not be 100% accurate from FiiO (also keep in mind that the numbers above are calculated, not measured). Also, it looks like the balanced output impedance is pretty high @2.8ohms. This shouldn't affect the Yinmans at all though (remember the rule of 8 applies to output impedance).

You should also keep in mind that when someone says "oh these scale alot with more power", that is a subjective term, and could actually appear only subtle to another person. It is much like tip rolling with IEMs. The changes are only ever subtle at best, but to some they find that subtle change rather big their ears. It is JUST enough to change the overall sound and to them that might sound huge. To others it is very small.

For instance, using my 2W amp card with the Yinman, to my ears there is a huge difference between that and listening to them through my phone output as an example. In reality, it is small changes that add up to an overall sound change that I am hearing. And on top of all that, some might prefer the looser bass, and effects caused by under driving the driver (all goes back to sound preference), and there is nothing wrong with that at all.

As for me, I prefer to have something that is reference with some fun thrown into the mix, and for that they need to be driven to their full potential (and in some cases even overdriven can add that fun flare). Not that the Yinman are reference to begin with, but the clarity is at its best, and bass as tight and punchy as it can be when driven to full potential (IMO).


mt877 said:


> I just got a Dayton Audio iMM-6 and been playing with REW to get some FR graphs. I've read a few tutorials on how to setup REW and used the Dayton calibration file for my iMM-6. Other tutorial says it's better to not use the calibration file and do a manual calibration. Right now I'm using the headphone / microphone  female TRRS jack on my laptop and it seems to be working ok(?). It's all still new to me, so forgive me for any mistakes. Anyway here's what I got for ST10s B&G 150 vs M4 ST10s 150. There are differences in the FR graphs, but also similarities as well. I took 5 FR readings for each driver and was going to average the 5 readings per driver together, but there was no reason to average them because the 5 FR graphs per driver were exactly the same.


I would say that even if they weren't totally accurate, as long as the readings are at least consistent, you can indeed get a good base as to the differences in the different buds (which shows here). Very nice! 


dsonance said:


> Yeah, those calculations are part of the reason I'm thinking BTR7 can't be optimal... But, with the boost on, and at the lower volume, perhaps it is
> 
> I wish I could measure the actual power output, and see how much is getting drawn. According to Amir's measurements here - if I'm reading them correctly - BTR7 should be able to output over 5.7 Vrms with the 600 Ohm load. But, the math I've seen earlier in this thread seems to indicate that's not quite enough.
> 
> In any case, I'm curious what people are using to test how well different phones scale with power. I'm thinking, apart from just the sheer enjoyment of music (conditioned as that is by the subjective differences we all have in likes, dislikes, and perceptions in general), there's also an element of critical listening skill that can be developed. I'd love to learn more about how you guys approach this.


Normally with high impedance gear, I will start with something that I KNOW cannot push them well (Samsung Note 9) and listen to what it sounds like. What I am listening for is sloppy non textured bass, treble that can be a bit tinny or tizzy, lack of dynamic control (the driver's ability to render volume changes over a period of time), etc... This is all assuming you have SOME idea what the set is supposed to sound like (this is normally the tricky part because most of this testing isn't so much scientific, but based on differences or a base that you establish by using different gear and your ears).

Having established a base, I will move to a bit more power (fortunately for me I have DAPs that range in power from phone level outputs to 2W), and note the changes (if any), and so on until I have supplied the set with as much power as I can give it. One other tricky part is synergy. You may find that at some point (regardless of power) they seem to just sound perfect for your ears. Here is where I would stop (if I weren't such a pea-brain and just HAVE to know)... 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> That said, all of that may not be something you end up wanting to do. I've become better at it now, but at one point I found it very difficult to turn off the critical side and just enjoy music once I got deep into it and it nearly deatroyed my love for the head-fi related hobbies. Only you can determine that, but I'll just say that it's important to maintain a balance between critical listening and musical enjoyment and to make sure you allow plenty of time for both.


I was also going to suggest this. If you learn to do "critical listening" it may ruin you for sets that might otherwise be perfect for you. Sometimes ignorance IS indeed bliss! I find myself enjoying my older Sennheiser Momentum or B&W P5 much less now than I used to (not knowing any better) because of being able to do critical listening. It really is hard to turn off sometimes.

However, I feel that I am starting to appreciate all facets of audio where I CAN "turn it off" when I want to, so that I CAN enjoy less critical sets (fun tuning) for what they are. If you still want to be able to do critical listening, here are a few tips that can get you started (try and apply them to everyday listening as well). 7 tips to improve critical listening skills


WoodyLuvr said:


> Do I spy a new variation of the wooden box they are sent in?


I was going to say the same thing. It looks like a hybrid of what you got, and the "plain Jane" that I got. I actually like it a lot. 


dsonance said:


> This is very helpful. I was trying to do something like that, using BTR7, Atom and ZEN CAN. In fact, I got the two latter ones specifically for that purpose - I don't need a desktop setup otherwise. Every amp did change the sound slightly, as would be expected from the different circuitries involved, but the only clear improvement I could hear was going from the SE BTR7 output to its balanced one, and from the lower gain settings on ZEN CAN to the higher ones.
> 
> How about the track selection? Do you use something bass-heavy, something with a complex multi-layered soundstage, a wide dynamic range, etc.? Any specific recs?


As @JAnonymous5150 said, track selection should be based solely on your familiarity with the song. I would also pick songs (that you know very well) that are varied in what they do (e.g. heavy dynamics, bassy, instrumental, busy songs, etc...). Once you start building a base of what the driver can and cannot do, you start doing this with all your head gear by simply listening.

Reviews CAN be a great thing, but often times are a bit misleading if you take everything they say at face value. There is no such thing as objective where a review is concerned. Most times they are (in their mind) comparing the set they are reviewing to a known set that matches their preferred signature. Having said that, they can also be invaluable in that if a known reviewer has a similar preference, you can match as many items on their list as you would listen for.

Crinacle has been an invaluable reviewer for me. I NEVER agree wtih his reviews, but he is SUPER consistant, and that helps me know what to discard and what to take away from his reviews. A couple of my top picks (in IEMs) have come from his "C" and "D" rankings. 

When I get a new set, I always listen for the drums (not JUST bass drums mind you). If I can hear all of the snares, toms, kick drums, cymbals, etc... at roughly the same volume level, then that is a really good start for me, and I can move on to different facets about that sound that I either like or not. Basically, it takes many listening sessions to get a good handle on the intricacies of the sound (taking one part of the sound at a time).


barato said:


> I been looking at the TRN EMX which is not too expensive and looks like it might be decent performer, the published graph show flat bass but this review shows significant rolloff which the reviewer both heard and confirmed with measurements, and even went on to say that is typical for earbuds
> Considering that earbuds do seal like IEMs I feel like this could actually be true... Any comment?


Often times earbuds do indeed have low rolloff because they don't actually seal in your ears like IEMs do. When referring to a seal for earbuds that is really describing how well they sit in your concha and how close they are able to remain to your ear canal (to at least get a consistent sound). They will never be as bassy as even some lesser quantity IEMs usually are.

Having said that, there have been quite a few of late that have some pretty massive bass for an earbud (FiiO FF3, Yinman 2.0 600, etc...)


----------



## samandhi (Oct 3, 2022)

tendou said:


> Would a 100setting when you plug the earbuds into a DAC amp connected to a computer blow them?
> And how to know the driver is compromised?


That all depends on the power output of the DAC/amp that you are feeding into the earbud, at what volume it is capable of pushing the bud, and how much physical movement that the driver can handle before blowing. With modern drivers it is much harder than it used to be to make this happen. Remember the days when most speakers were paper? Those were pretty easy to blow when feeding it too much volume (not necessarily power).

Think of it just like your old car speakers when they are blown. You will hear consistent distortion on certain frequencies (usually either really high, or really low). Or they just won't work at all.


----------



## fooltoque

barato said:


> Wow, surprising to see there still is such an active earbud thread, I had noticed this thread for while but not looked at it until now and had just assumed it would include IEMs, and the title was a remnant from 2009.
> 
> Earbuds have just started to pique my interest for a few reasons.
> 
> ...



Welcome to the thread. 

I'm going to leave the more technical questions to more knowledgeable folks here, but yeah as you say it is true that getting deep bass in earbuds is more challenging. That said, as a moderate bass-head myself, in the last few months I've found myself 2 earbuds that totally fit my needs bass-wise. FiiO FF3, which is really popular around here lately, and the Berzerker 1, one of the DIY offerings from a earbuds thread resident, @RikudouGoku. Riku's bud I actually EQ down the bass just a touch, cause it's a bit too much for me.


----------



## samandhi

fooltoque said:


> Welcome to the thread.
> 
> I'm going to leave the more technical questions to more knowledgeable folks here, but yeah as you say it is true that getting deep bass in earbuds is more challenging. That said, as a moderate bass-head myself, in the last few months I've found myself 2 earbuds that totally fit my needs bass-wise. FiiO FF3, which is really popular around here lately, and the Berzerker 1, one of the DIY offerings from a earbuds thread resident, @RikudouGoku. Riku's bud I actually EQ down the bass just a touch, cause it's a bit too much for me.


Ah! Good call. I forgot to mention @ RikudouGoku's buds. I haven't heard them but have read here that those are indeed very bassy for buds.


----------



## mt877 (Oct 3, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Most likely, but here's what I got of the ff3 without foams:
> 
> The 80Hz bass bump is actually my fan running in the background so ignore it.  I'd say judging by what we are seeing that if you can buy a fairly realistic rubbery human ear, you'd be much better off.


Thanks. Yeah, I saw some of those calibration ears on AE and was actually thinking of to get one with a generic 'calibrated' measuring mic setup, but didn't want to go overboard. Wow, your measurements with the adapter are pretty wonky looking. I can see the blue trace is more representative of what the FR graph should look like. I agree my FF3 graph is far from perfect, but not totally worthless, lol. My capture does 'loosely' follow the general plot of the FF3 graph from FiiO.

I still have further setup to do. I'm think about changing the audio chain in my setup to see how that goes as well.


----------



## Stuff Jones

Stuff Jones said:


> Here's a pic after taking off the foams. You can see a little gold left in the middle, but the rest is silver (not brass) like the rest of the bud. I've only had them since May, and purchased them new.



@MOONDROP - Do you have any comment on this? Has the material of the Chaconne been changed? (sent a PM and email but have not heard back).


----------



## samandhi

Stuff Jones said:


> @MOONDROP - Do you have any comment on this? Has the material of the Chaconne been changed? (sent a PM and email but have not heard back).


Yeah, and in your picture, it almost looks etched also (unless I am seeing wrong). 

Have you tried their FB page or Discord? I don't know if they have a presence there, but it doesn't hurt to check.


----------



## baskingshark

tendou said:


> Would a 100setting when you plug the earbuds into a DAC amp connected to a computer blow them?
> And how to know the driver is compromised?



Whenever I plug a dongle/source into the PC/laptop, or put an IEM/earbud into a source, I always ensure the volume knob goes to ZERO or MUTE. Then adjust upwards from there once the music plays. Had bad experiences before of the volume remaining at 100% and causing a shock to the ears, and worry about driver damage.


I spoke to some audio engineers before, generally, DDs are quite tough, and the voice coil/diaphragm won't blow with a few seconds of loud sound. With prolonged duration of the signal, then maybe the driver will get damaged though, but for brief 1 - 2 seconds of a loud burst and you stop the sound, generally the driver is okay. BAs are another story though, they are generally more fragile than DDs.

If you are worried, you can do a frequency sweep using any online/youtube link and check that there is no distortion or volume imbalance from 20 hz to 20 khz. A blown driver is quite obvious, it sounds low volume and like a tin can.


----------



## drewbadour

classfolkphile said:


> Is there anyone in the US that repairs earbuds?
> 
> I have a pair of Yinman 600 where one shell separated and the channel cut out. I've had that happen on several pairs of less expensive earbuds and it really upsets me as there's no reason it should occur.


Could you share a picture of what happened? Would be helpful in helping figure out how to fix it!

Also, if the driver is exposed, we can finally solve the mystery of what driver it uses


----------



## Ronion

mt877 said:


> Thanks. Yeah, I saw some of those calibration ears on AE and was actually thinking of to get one with a generic 'calibrated' measuring mic setup, but didn't want to go overboard. Wow, your measurements with the adapter are pretty wonky looking. I can see the blue trace is more representative of what the FR graph should look like. I agree my FF3 graph is far from perfect, but not totally worthless, lol. My capture does 'loosely' follow the general plot of the FF3 graph from FiiO.
> 
> I still have further setup to do. I'm think about changing the audio chain in my setup to see how that goes as well.


I don’t mean a calibration ear or anything, just one of those ears used to teach people how to pierce or for hearing aide/IEM display.  I mean one of those calibrated ear/mic combo is likely better, but they’ll also cost more.  one of those ears is like 2-5 USD on AE.  

When you look at your coupler print vs mine, you’ll see the same graph just yours is better damped d/t materials.  That’s a good thing.  The theory and the experiment agrees.  I wouldn’t consider one more useful than the other for this purpose though.  IOW, neither of them look like they correlate well with a measurement rig or with how our ear works.  I’d bet you could devise a calibrat Curve though and all would be good with that you have.  It’s certainly more consistent than a “real” fake ear.  That can be useful as well.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

*Come one, come all! To the Flathead Sanctuary!*

The *Flathead Sanctuary* is a *community-driven* neutral zone where all things earbud related can be openly and freely discussed sans censorship. No hidden agendas. No cults. No banned manufacturer names. No in-your-face advertising. A place where everyone's opinions, thoughts, and experiences are shared through civil discourse. A sanctuary where all earbud types, ranging from branded to custom-made to do-it-yourself, are most welcome.


*“Why did this project arise? Is it really needed?”*

Earbuds have been with us for decades now, but times change. Over the last few months, the flathead lover community has multiplied, but it has also scattered. New tools like Discord have taken on forum discussions, but with that came the scattering, with crews residing on every server but never all together.

Given all that, most people also left the forums due to accommodation issues and the lack of transparency that most websites encourage nowadays. The combination of all of this, the idea for the "Flathead Sanctuary" was born in the depths of the Discords, and now it sees the light of the day.

The point is not to crosstalk or substitute any platform, but to unite earbud fans without borders, under a strict set of rules.


*“So, what are the rules, and how will you enforce them?”*






*1 strike = warning!   2 strikes = jail!   3 strikes = out!


“Who’s running the show?”*

The project was developed by three earbud lovers and audio-related buddies: Ian91, nymz and WoodyLuvr. I’m sure you can find our credentials somewhere.


*“Ok, but who said you should be in charge?”*

No one. It’s the Internet and freedom of speech doing their thing. You don’t have to join or stay. That’s the point: being happy and free.


*“Fine, fine. You convinced me. Where can I join this madness?”

Discord* server: *https://discord.gg/zCBhhynjRk*


*“I’m having trouble joining and I’m not sharp with technology. Can you help me out?”*

Of course, drop a PM on any platform and we will aid you as soon as possible.

*—

We look forward to seeing you all there!*


----------



## Setmagic

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Come one, come all! To the Flathead Sanctuary!*
> 
> The *Flathead Sanctuary* is a *community-driven* neutral zone where all things earbud related can be openly and freely discussed sans censorship. No hidden agendas. No cults. No banned manufacturer names. No in-your-face advertising. A place where everyone's opinions, thoughts, and experiences are shared through civil discourse. A sanctuary where all earbud types, ranging from branded to custom-made to do-it-yourself, are most welcome.
> 
> ...


Is @Ronion invited too?


----------



## qua2k

Letting go of a few not so well loved buds, posting here first then the usual places tomorrow. Hoping these will go to good homes!





QLabs Magnus Fath
Inorvin Labs HANNA
Toneking Viridis

Let me know if interested in any or all.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Setmagic said:


> Is @Ronion invited too?


Yes, of course! Why wouldn't he be? Everyone is invited and truly most welcome.


----------



## samandhi

WoodyLuvr said:


> *Come one, come all! To the Flathead Sanctuary!*
> 
> The *Flathead Sanctuary* is a *community-driven* neutral zone where all things earbud related can be openly and freely discussed sans censorship. No hidden agendas. No cults. No banned manufacturer names. No in-your-face advertising. A place where everyone's opinions, thoughts, and experiences are shared through civil discourse. A sanctuary where all earbud types, ranging from branded to custom-made to do-it-yourself, are most welcome.
> 
> ...


You might consider putting the link (and this description) into your signature for new people that come here seeking to converse about earbuds.


----------



## nymz

Setmagic said:


> Is @Ronion invited too?



It's literally a public server


----------



## samandhi

I guess that means it's gon' get perty lonley in here then?!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

samandhi said:


> You might consider putting the link (and this description) into your signature for new people that come here seeking to converse about earbuds.


Great idea! Will do!


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Oct 3, 2022)

qua2k said:


> Letting go of a few not so well loved buds, posting here first then the usual places tomorrow. Hoping these will go to good homes!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Edit: Ignore this post. I'll pm!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> I guess that means it's gon' get perty lonley in here then?!



I hope not. I'm not sure if I'm fast enough for discord. Real time chat can get hectic sometimes. Plus, where will I post my essays?!?!


----------



## digititus

Discord wants me to verify my phone number so that's a big nope.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I hope not. I'm not sure if I'm fast enough for discord. Real time chat can get hectic sometimes. Plus, where will I post my essays?!?!


IKR? I was thinking the same thing. Plus, sometimes it takes me a minute to "frame" my thoughts, so to speak.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

digititus said:


> Discord wants me to verify my phone number so that's a big nope.



I just registered with an email address.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I just registered with an email address.


Same here.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> IKR? I was thinking the same thing. Plus, sometimes it takes me a minute to "frame" my thoughts, so to speak.



Same here brother. I'm down to give it a shot and see how it goes, but a forum setting offers some advantages for sure. For example, on here I can browse past posts at my leisure and take my time responding. I can also post and return even days later to read responses whereas with the pace of a live chat setting they'd get buried.

That said for sharing ideas and quick back and forth I can see why discord would be appealing.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

digititus said:


> Discord wants me to verify my phone number so that's a big nope.


I am trying to figure out a work around for you. We need you over here for sure.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Same here brother. I'm down to give it a shot and see how it goes, but a forum setting offers some advantages for sure. For example, on here I can browse past posts at my leisure and take my time responding. I can also post and return even days later to read responses whereas with the pace of a live chat setting they'd get buried.
> 
> That said for sharing ideas and quick back and forth I can see why discord would be appealing.


I could not have said it better myself. And I also happen to agree with you. They both have their places IMO.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Same here brother. I'm down to give it a shot and see how it goes, but a forum setting offers some advantages for sure. For example, on here I can browse past posts at my leisure and take my time responding. I can also post and return even days later to read responses whereas with the pace of a live chat setting they'd get buried.
> 
> That said for sharing ideas and quick back and forth I can see why discord would be appealing.


Discord has forum channels now so we will unlock and unleash forums in the sanctuary!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

WoodyLuvr said:


> I am trying to figure out a work around for you. We need you over here for sure.



Just FYI for everybody interetsed, Discord lets you register with an email address and you DO NOT have to use/confirm your phone number. On the screen where it ask you for your phone number if you look at the top there is a second tab for registering with email. There are also settings to keep both phone and email private from other users if you'd like. I hope that helps.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Just FYI for everybody interetsed, Discord lets you register with an email address and you DO NOT have to use/confirm your phone number. On the screen where it ask you for your phone number if you look at the top there is a second tab for registering with email. There are also settings to keep both phone and email private from other users if you'd like. I hope that helps.


Mind pasting that in the discord server? They are discussing it..


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Just FYI for everybody interetsed, Discord lets you register with an email address and you DO NOT have to use/confirm your phone number. On the screen where it ask you for your phone number if you look at the top there is a second tab for registering with email. There are also settings to keep both phone and email private from other users if you'd like. I hope that helps.


Or I can quote you on Discord if you want me to.


----------



## digititus

WoodyLuvr said:


> I am trying to figure out a work around for you. We need you over here for sure.


I've had a Discord account for a while (that I don't use). When I login it wants me to verify my account by providing a phone number. Nothing to do with your channel.
I could of course just setup a new account, but I'm extremely stubborn and generally dislike having to please the tech company A or meet tech company B's community safety standards


----------



## qua2k

qua2k said:


> Letting go of a few not so well loved buds, posting here first then the usual places tomorrow. Hoping these will go to good homes!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just the QLabs Magnus Fath left. This set is still available @ Rholupat at msrp, nice write up here: https://www.rholupat.com/custom-earbuds/qlabs-magnus-fath.html it's a bass head's bud imo.

$60 shipped in US.


----------



## samandhi

Wa just talking about the Smabat ST10S B&G on discord, so I broke them out to give a listen. I still really like these lil' fellas':



Spoiler: DX300 > Amp11 MKII > Smabat ST10S


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> Most likely, but here's what I got of the ff3 without foams:
> 
> The 80Hz bass bump is actually my fan running in the background so ignore it.  I'd say judging by what we are seeing that if you can buy a fairly realistic rubbery human ear, you'd be much better off.



Not just addressing @Ronion but also the OP of the question:

Have you tried a 711 coupler clone? I have super consistent measurements from 1k up just by resting the buds gently against the opening of the canal. The only challenge is the amount of pressure against the artificial canal, which changes the bass response upto 20db. To my ears, the graph produces by 711 coupler clone is consistent with listening experience and even comparable somewhat to IEMs.

I’m looking forward to get the silicone ears that comes with the coupler (to stingy to buy it previously ) It might help with the inconsistent bass issue.



JAnonymous5150 said:


> Your various rigs should provide you with enough in the way of amplification variety to test scalability pretty well.
> 
> For track selection the style or whether it has heavy bass and such isn't nearly as important as some other things. First and most important in my book for test tracks of anything comparitive is to use a track or tracks you know like the back of your hand which is why me recommending one for you wouldn't be too helpful.
> 
> ...



As someone who relies entirely on A/B tests to rank audio gears, I would like to add that any track that you listen, even an MP3 ripped from YouTube can be used to compare gears. Familiarity is important. 

However, I tend to use “difficult tracks” to test gears. For example, if you want to compare macro detail / clarity / separation, using a Bach violin partita or Paganini Caprice is not a great idea because there is nothing to separate. A dense concerto or symphony is way better.

It’s helpful to distinguish macro detail (sharpness of note attacks, instrument separation) with micro detail (air, breath, room reverb, tiny details like someone picking up their instruments in the studio). Many budget IEM nowadays are mediocre in both types of details (I rate them “average resolution” 3/5 - similar to Aria). Many decent ones pretty much nail the macro detail (Blessing 2 - 4/5 - “good”), but right now only a few nail the micro detail aspect. I expect that the resolution / price ratio will improve thanks to new driver techs. Hidizs and Fiio have been able to squeeze quite good resolution out of their BA drivers thanks to 3d printed tubes as well.

Btw, I believe that resolution is inherent characteristic of driver + enclosure configuration. Tuning can impact but rarely override the resolution of an IEM /buds. That’s why I index resolution heavily when reviewing gears.

Off topic: I wish ASR folks (who are obviously knowledgeable) to be open minded and find out what determines and how to control the “resolution” rather than brushing it aside as delusion. I mean Final Audio launches whole gear series to study the soundstage and dynamic, the things that those armchair experts brush aside.



WoodyLuvr said:


> *Come one, come all! To the Flathead Sanctuary!*
> 
> The *Flathead Sanctuary* is a *community-driven* neutral zone where all things earbud related can be openly and freely discussed sans censorship. No hidden agendas. No cults. No banned manufacturer names. No in-your-face advertising. A place where everyone's opinions, thoughts, and experiences are shared through civil discourse. A sanctuary where all earbud types, ranging from branded to custom-made to do-it-yourself, are most welcome.
> 
> ...



You are telling me that there is another audio related place for me to procrastinate?


----------



## tendou

samandhi said:


> That all depends on the power output of the DAC/amp that you are feeding into the earbud, at what volume it is capable of pushing the bud, and how much physical movement that the driver can handle before blowing. With modern drivers it is much harder than it used to be to make this happen. Remember the days when most speakers were paper? Those were pretty easy to blow when feeding it too much volume (not necessarily power).
> 
> Think of it just like your old car speakers when they are blown. You will hear consistent distortion on certain frequencies (usually either really high, or really low). Or they just won't work at all.





baskingshark said:


> Whenever I plug a dongle/source into the PC/laptop, or put an IEM/earbud into a source, I always ensure the volume knob goes to ZERO or MUTE. Then adjust upwards from there once the music plays. Had bad experiences before of the volume remaining at 100% and causing a shock to the ears, and worry about driver damage.
> 
> 
> I spoke to some audio engineers before, generally, DDs are quite tough, and the voice coil/diaphragm won't blow with a few seconds of loud sound. With prolonged duration of the signal, then maybe the driver will get damaged though, but for brief 1 - 2 seconds of a loud burst and you stop the sound, generally the driver is okay. BAs are another story though, they are generally more fragile than DDs.
> ...




thanks! there is nothing obvious that I notice. I can 't find any distortion from frequency sweep either.


----------



## o0genesis0o

tendou said:


> thanks! there is nothing obvious that I notice. I can 't find any distortion from frequency sweep either.



Just one comment: when I measured Final E5000 with REW (essentially sine sweeps at around 85db), both KA3 and Apple dongle provides identical frequency response. However, the real life listening experience is noticeably different. So, I'm not sure whether sine sweeps are enough to capture whatever distortion you try to hear. No expert opinion, of course. Just an observation


----------



## tendou

o0genesis0o said:


> Just one comment: when I measured Final E5000 with REW (essentially sine sweeps at around 85db), both KA3 and Apple dongle provides identical frequency response. However, the real life listening experience is noticeably different. So, I'm not sure whether sine sweeps are enough to capture whatever distortion you try to hear. No expert opinion, of course. Just an observation


Interesting. Though I don't understand this enough to make any conclusion. Lol


----------



## Ronion (Oct 3, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Not just addressing @Ronion but also the OP of the question:
> 
> Have you tried a 711 coupler clone? I have super consistent measurements from 1k up just by resting the buds gently against the opening of the canal. The only challenge is the amount of pressure against the artificial canal, which changes the bass response upto 20db. To my ears, the graph produces by 711 coupler clone is consistent with listening experience and even comparable somewhat to IEMs.
> 
> ...


You are so on point!  I’d actually say the driver is more important than the tuning as far as resolution and soundstage are concerned.  The tuning can help or hurt, but you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. 

I haven’t tried the coupler or the “with ear” version of it.  Mine works well enough that I don’t really need it and it’s much cheaper.  It’s also nice to me that I have my actual ear.  You can bet the coupler is better than mine however—or at least I would hope so.  Mine does do everything I need and I’m sure that my calibration curve is good.  Every bit as good as anything those companies have come up with even if technically more limited.  The only reason I say that is that they don’t have my curve.  My curve isn’t hammered down into any sort of perfection, but since perfection can’t exist at this time, I’m close enough.  I wouldn’t expect better consistency from an “eared” rig however—though you’d have to do something fairly intense to get a 20dB swing in the bass.  In fact, if the ear is well done, I would expect worse than something like the printed ear canal.  It can teach you about placement and mod issues very well though.  You can see how different the coupling makes graphs in my last graph posted.  Different Ear positioning definitely measure and sound differently. 

I perfected the tuning of the 600 Ohm Be 2 nights ago to within 1 dB from 100Hz-8kHz and it’s an astounding sound.  Honest The best I’ve heard at any price.  Nothing irritates and everything amazes. To me, audio is like medicine or shooting an asteroid with a satellite: careful, meticulous science.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Oct 3, 2022)

Ronion said:


> You can bet the coupler is better than mine however—or at least I would hope so.



I have no idea how good my coupler is, mate  . I read on the Internet that IEC711 is a flawed and somewhat outdated standard, yet still a standard (partially due to Crinacle's database), so I bought it and trust it to a certain degree. My measurements seem to agree somewhat with others', including manufacturers' (e.g., Dunu), at least in the midrange. I have also learned to correlate what I hear to IEC711 graphs. Not claiming that I nailed down the measurement or anything.



Ronion said:


> I wouldn’t expect better consistency from an “eared” rig however. In fact, if the ear is well done, I would expect worse. It can teach you about placement and mod issues very well though. You can see how different the coupling makes graphs in my last graph posted. Different Ear positioning definitely measure and sound differently.



I hoped that the ears would get rid of the inconsistency in terms of how much I squeeze earbuds against the coupler. As I mentioned, that's the major source of variation, as the upper midrange and treble does not change much, if at all.



Ronion said:


> I perfected the tuning of the 600 Ohm Be 2 nights ago to within 1 dB from 100Hz-8kHz and it’s an astounding sound. Honest The best I’ve heard at any price. Nothing irritates and everything amazes. To me, audio is like medicine or shooting an asteroid with a satellite: careful, meticulous science.



Nice!  Hope that I can hear your buds one day. I have nothing to drive those 600ohms, though. The post office lost my VE Megatron.

Edit: Have been contemplating the Fiio M11s for a long time. I like the idea of using a brick DAP, but not sure how good it actually is in real life to drag that brick around. Alternatively, I should follow @baskingshark advice and grab a desktop stack.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> I have no idea how good my coupler is, mate  . I read on the Internet that IEC711 is a flawed and somewhat outdated standard, yet still a standard (partially due to Crinacle's database), so I bought it and trust it to a certain degree. My measurements seem to agree somewhat with others', including manufacturers' (e.g., Dunu), at least in the midrange. I have also learned to correlate what I hear to IEC711 graphs. Not claiming that I nailed down the measurement or anything.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hold up. So you're just supposed to be out your Megatron and be cool with that? In the US (and I would hope in Australia too) you just put in a claim for the value of the goods and, IME, they actually tend to pay out pretty quickly. I've done it twice. Can you do something like that?


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hold up. So you're just supposed to be out your Megatron and be cool with that? In the US (and I would hope in Australia too) you just put in a claim for the value of the goods and, IME, they actually tend to pay out pretty quickly. I've done it twice. Can you do something like that?



They are searching for it. They said if they still cannot find it on 10/10, then the formal process would launch. Let's see. Meanwhile I better pick up my M4 before they lose it too   

A bit scared of M4 though. I can foresee a loooong review, given the sheer number of combinations. I should try to get the Hidizs MD4 out of the way first. (On unrelated note, if anyone wants Andromeda but does not want the flimsiness and the costs, have a look at MD4. It has all the strengths and weaknesses of the real 2020 Andromeda).


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> They are searching for it. They said if they still cannot find it on 10/10, then the formal process would launch. Let's see. Meanwhile I better pick up my M4 before they lose it too
> 
> A bit scared of M4 though. I can foresee a loooong review, given the sheer number of combinations. I should try to get the Hidizs MD4 out of the way first. (On unrelated note, if anyone wants Andromeda but does not want the flimsiness and the costs, have a look at MD4. It has all the strengths and weaknesses of the real 2020 Andromeda).



Good luck with them finding the Megatron! I'll keep my fingers crossed (metaphorically anayways). As for the M4, there are anlot of combos, but several of them share many of the same charcteristics of the ones I have gotten to try so far.

Wow! That's a pretty big endorsement of the MD4. Now you know I have to go order one to hear this for myself. Way to ruin my idea of being done buying IEMs for the foreseeable future! 😜

Seriously though, with a comparison like that my curiosity won't let me not try it for myself.


----------



## Ronion (Oct 3, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> I have no idea how good my coupler is, mate  . I read on the Internet that IEC711 is a flawed and somewhat outdated standard, yet still a standard (partially due to Crinacle's database), so I bought it and trust it to a certain degree. My measurements seem to agree somewhat with others', including manufacturers' (e.g., Dunu), at least in the midrange. I have also learned to correlate what I hear to IEC711 graphs. Not claiming that I nailed down the measurement or anything.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The 711 is flawed, but they all are.  Learning to use what you have is priceless and I think you are there with the 711.

The ear will squeeze differently depending on how hard you shove it in there and the angle you shove it in with.  There is an inherent degree of uncertainty in the method but that’s also how a real ear works.  Both types of rigs have their place: one with and one without an ear.

Thanks Mate!  The 600 do scale well, but they are still impressive from 1V.   One thing I’ve noticed about a well balanced bud: they still sound good at lower volumes.  When things are out of balance, I definitely have more of a desire to turn them up and get a Fletcher/Munson EQ thing going.  That’s a good way to know your buds or cans are not well tuned.  If you want to turn them up because it’s just going to be more of a good thing, then you got it right LOL.  I never listen loud for long long.  I fear for the longevity of my hearing.


Oh, I really hope they find your Megatron!  I’ve had drivers lost in the post.  The 130Be for a couple months and it showed up….  Anyway, hoping you have similar luck.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Good luck with them finding the Megatron! I'll keep my fingers crossed (metaphorically anayways). As for the M4, there are anlot of combos, but several of them share many of the same charcteristics of the ones I have gotten to try so far.
> 
> Wow! That's a pretty big endorsement of the MD4. Now you know I have to go order one to hear this for myself. Way to ruin my idea of being done buying IEMs for the foreseeable future! 😜
> 
> Seriously though, with a comparison like that my curiosity won't let me not try it for myself.



I suggest waiting for my full review. And if you already have Andromeda and does not mind using it on the go, there is zero reason to get this IEM. Still the same old BA bass, still kind of wonky tuning (but in a different way). The default tuning is super boxy and half of the tuning options have bad (2/5 rated) bass. There is one very good setting where the BA drivers run at full tilt and treble is lifted up. In all configuration, it has excellent macro and micro details though. This budget IEM manages to create that layering illusion of Andromeda thanks to the great resolution. I'm daily driving this IEM for review, but I think I will use it permanently as a commute IEM, leaving my Andromeda at home. 

To make this bud related: MD4 teaches me humility   I was over the moon with my DIY, then I listen to MD4 for a while, and then I realise how much resolution my buds lack. Time to order new drivers and some rivets.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> I suggest waiting for my full review. And if you already have Andromeda and does not mind using it on the go, there is zero reason to get this IEM. Still the same old BA bass, still kind of wonky tuning (but in a different way). The default tuning is super boxy and half of the tuning options have bad (2/5 rated) bass. There is one very good setting where the BA drivers run at full tilt and treble is lifted up. In all configuration, it has excellent macro and micro details though. This budget IEM manages to create that layering illusion of Andromeda thanks to the great resolution. I'm daily driving this IEM for review, but I think I will use it permanently as a commute IEM, leaving my Andromeda at home.
> 
> To make this bud related: MD4 teaches me humility   I was over the moon with my DIY, then I listen to MD4 for a while, and then I realise how much resolution my buds lack. Time to order new drivers and some rivets.



If I get it, it wouldn't be with any preconceived idea of replacing my Andros, but a $169 IEM that replicates the sound of them has my curiosity piqued. I think I've mentioned before that curiosity is the driving force behind a lot of my purchases. If you think it would be best, then I will wait for your full review.

P.S. I do indeed use my Andros out and about. Well, I did before I got into buds, but haven't in a while now. I didn't use them out when I first got them, but came to the conclusion that buying IEMs or earbuds for that matter that I'm not willing to take out of the house just makes no sense for me and my use cases. The only exceptions are IEMs I use for actual monitoring work.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Right now I'm happy to say that I'm using my own 150ohm copper shelled creations and they came together REALLY nicely. They aren't much to look at from the outside what with the blackish shells and the premade white cable I'm using, but they sound very good. As confident in my skills as I am, I wouldn't have thought my first real DIY pair would turn out this good.

I'm excited to see where I can go from here!


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> If I get it, it wouldn't be with any preconceived idea of replacing my Andros, but a $169 IEM that replicates the sound of them has my curiosity piqued. I think I've mentioned before that curiosity is the driving force behind a lot of my purchases. If you think it would be best, then I will wait for your full review.
> 
> P.S. I do indeed use my Andros out and about. Well, I did before I got into buds, but haven't in a while now. I didn't use them out when I first got them, but came to the conclusion that buying IEMs or earbuds for that matter that I'm not willing to take out of the house just makes no sense for me and my use cases. The only exceptions are IEMs I use for actual monitoring work.



I guess I just worry that people would not get the satisfaction after spending their hard-earned money on audio gears based on my reviews. A fellow head-fier bought E5000 after reading my review recently, and it craps out for him, so I'm more skeptical nowadays. 

The fun thing about Andromeda that I realised recently is that I treat it as an "investment" for my reviews, like my 711 coupler, more than a piece of equipment for enjoyment. It's good to have access to one of the most resolving and holographic IEMs at all time for comparison, but I listen to other buds and IEMs way more. Same goes for Moondrop Blessing 2 and Aria. (e.g., "budget king? can you outperform THE Aria? You charge AUD $500? Can you outperform Blessing 2?").


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> I guess I just worry that people would not get the satisfaction after spending their hard-earned money on audio gears based on my reviews. A fellow head-fier bought E5000 after reading my review recently, and it craps out for him, so I'm more skeptical nowadays.
> 
> The fun thing about Andromeda that I realised recently is that I treat it as an "investment" for my reviews, like my 711 coupler, more than a piece of equipment for enjoyment. It's good to have access to one of the most resolving and holographic IEMs at all time for comparison, but I listen to other buds and IEMs way more. Same goes for Moondrop Blessing 2 and Aria. (e.g., "budget king? can you outperform THE Aria? You charge AUD $500? Can you outperform Blessing 2?").



I understand the feeling, but you can't look at it that way or you're gonna have problems because there are always gonna be people who misinterpret what you say, don't even know what they actually like, or for any number of other reasons will be undatisfied with products they purchased and some will decide to blame you.

Frankly, that's BS. Reviews aren't for that. They are simply a window into one individual's (the reviewer) experience that is being relayed to give the consumer some basis for narrowing down options from an otherwise immense pool of possibilities. That's it. No guarntees. Nobody saying that you're experience will be the same.

Blaming a reviewer is a misguided attempt by individuals to pass the buck so they never have to be reaponsible for decisions that disappoint. It lets them turn disappointment in themselves into anger at another as an ego and self-esteem preservation mechanism for someone who is othetwise unable to deal with adverse results in a healthy manner. It literally the same thing all these incels that go around conducting mass shootings are doing just on a much smaller scale. It's very psychologically unhealthy for them to do it and even moreso for people to validate it by being sorry for them because of it.

9 out of 10 psychologists agree...😉

Anyways, don't let others take your willingness to put your time and effort into sharing your opinions and experiences and use it against you so they don't have to act like responsible adults. I like your reviews too much to see that happen.


----------



## waynes world (Oct 4, 2022)

You know what I like? I like it when a new earbud makes me want to listen to an artist's entire catalogue again lol.

I just listened to Porcupine Tree's Arriving Somewhere But Not Here, Deadwing and Blackest Eyes on my FF3's (through the Qudelix 5K), and it's all rather remarkably good!


----------



## o0genesis0o (Oct 3, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I understand the feeling, but you can't look at it that way or you're gonna have problems because there are always gonna be people who misinterpret what you say, don't even know what they actually like, or for any number of other reasons will be undatisfied with products they purchased and some will decide to blame you.
> 
> Frankly, that's BS. Reviews aren't for that. They are simply a window into one individual's (the reviewer) experience that is being relayed to give the consumer some basis for narrowing down options from an otherwise immense pool of possibilities. That's it. No guarntees. Nobody saying that you're experience will be the same.
> 
> ...



Nothing serious. The guy is actually an acquaintance / friend (Reddit's people count as friends, right?). He was over the moon with Fiio FF3, so he followed up with E5000 to finish the bass head combo. No blaming at all. I'm curious, though, because his E5000 "has no bass", but E5000 is one of the most bass head IEMs out there. Anyhow, he is bringing the unit back to store to see if there is any defect.



waynes world said:


> You know what I like? I like it when a new earbud makes me want to listen to an artist's entire catalogue again lol.
> 
> I just listened to Procupine Tree's Arriving Somewhere But Not Here, Deadwing and Blackest Eyes on my FF3's (through the Qudelix 5K), and it's all rather remarkably good!



FF3 makes me wants to listen to drum covers, which never happens before (Though @JAnonymous5150 politely but firmly let me know that the drummer I listen to on YouTube heavily compresses her drum sounds for extra punchiness). I've never cared about drum sound before FF3, tbh. I'm eager to try the bass cannons by Riku one day to hear how much he can push with the usual MX500 shells.


----------



## baskingshark

o0genesis0o said:


> Nothing serious. The guy is actually an acquaintance / friend (Reddit's people count as friends, right?). He was over the moon with Fiio FF3, so he followed up with E5000 to finish the bass head combo. No blaming going on. I'm curious, though, because his E5000 "has no bass", but E5000 is one of the most bass head IEMs out there. Anyhow, he is bringing the unit back to store to see if there is any defect.



Bro what is he driving the E5000 with?

The E5000 is truly one of the hardest IEMs to optimally drive, due to the low sensitivity.


----------



## o0genesis0o

baskingshark said:


> Bro what is he driving the E5000 with?
> 
> The E5000 is truly one of the hardest IEMs to optimally drive, due to the low sensitivity.



iFi Go Blu. Should be 165mW@32ohm, if I'm not wrong, which smokes even my KA3.


----------



## waynes world

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I understand the feeling, but you can't look at it that way or you're gonna have problems because there are always gonna be people who misinterpret what you say, don't even know what they actually like, or for any number of other reasons will be undatisfied with products they purchased and some will decide to blame you.
> 
> Frankly, that's BS. Reviews aren't for that. They are simply a window into one individual's (the reviewer) experience that is being relayed to give the consumer some basis for narrowing down options from an otherwise immense pool of possibilities. That's it. No guarntees. Nobody saying that you're experience will be the same.
> 
> ...



Well said (and I'm not even a psychologist!)


----------



## waynes world

mt877 said:


> What kind of 4.4mm balanced cable are you looking for? MMCX, 2 pin, XLR termination or not terminated at all? The cable that I used for that build was partially made. It came with the 4.4mm Pentaconn, but was not terminated because the metal shell came with the mmcx connector that I had to solder on. In general I don't swap out cables much unless I'm troubleshooting a connection problem, so I do keep a few inexpensive 4.4mm balanced cables around for that.
> 
> Here's a nice looking 16 core cable that you can order customized with different plugs (3.5mmSE, 4.4mm Balanced...) and different terminations ( MMCX, 2 pin, XLR...).
> 
> ...





KokushiTsumo said:


> Thank you, exactly what I was looking for.
> 
> By the way, does anyone have any idea if these are real TG38s?



Fwiw, I really love the below cable from NiceHCK. I have the 2.5mm MMCX version for the ST10 BG's, but you can get it in 4.4 mm as well. Not only does it seem to synergize very well with the ST10's, but it is very soft, flexible and light. I wish all of my buds had this cable!
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002002015076.html


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Right now I'm happy to say that I'm using my own 150ohm copper shelled creations and they came together REALLY nicely. They aren't much to look at from the outside what with the blackish shells and the premade white cable I'm using, but they sound very good. As confident in my skills as I am, I wouldn't have thought my first real DIY pair would turn out this good.
> 
> I'm excited to see where I can go from here!


Any chance for a photo?


----------



## waynes world

JAnonymous5150 said:


> My critical listening skills have developed by spending decades listening critically in as many situations to as much different gear and music/audio as possible. Whether that's monitoring my own performances live or in the studio, reviewing studio mixing and mastering on my own and my band's recordings, listening for and analyizing the differences between different versions of a given track or album (remasters/remixes released after an initial release), comparing and contrasting audio gear, analyzing musicians' performances in live and recorded settings to improve my own, etc.
> 
> Another key element has been educating myself about concepts important to critical listening like timbre, tone, imaging, separation, mixing and mastering techniques, styles, and shortcomings, recording techniques, manufacturing and tuning techniques, etc. The list goes on and on, but the important thing is to absorb information and learn about as many different facets of audio, music, and gear as you can. The more you listen to and compare and contrast gear and music and the more you educate yourself about the concepts of what to listen for the better you'll get at picking up in differences, nuances, and subtleties.
> 
> ...



At least your generous ramblings are intelligent, interesting and easy to read/grok! Btw, I have no idea how you do this by typing on your phone lol.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> Any chance for a photo?



Your wish is my command. This is a pic I took last night while I still had them on a black cable to test with an SE source. I liked them so much I switched to a white modular cable so I can use them with any source until I have time to complete the handmade cable I'm going to braid for them which is planned to be a 2x2x2x2 with 4 strands of gold cable and 4 strands of black in alternating pairs likely in some kind of helix braid but I haven't fully decided on vraid type yet.

I call them the 150ohms to Freedom buds because the first song I heard on them was Sublime's 40oz to Freedom when I plugged them in after their first assembly before any revisions. It seemed cool at the time...lol!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

waynes world said:


> At least your generous ramblings are intelligent, interesting and easy to read/grok! Btw, I have no idea how you do this by typing on your phone lol.



I have pretty much been exclusively using a phone for anything non-business related on the internet since I first got a smart phone which was only 3 years ago lol! My laptop is all business and music related and all the security software and such that I have to use in order to prevent leaks and be able to access my label's and studio's servers makes it impractical for casual stuff. The detail would bore you so just trust me.

My girl says I can type ans text so fast on my phone because I think in fast forward. She says even when I'm sleeping I'm doing more mental work than most people do when they're asleep. I think that's the way someone who really loves you describes mania and hyper-vigilance lol🤣. I do think there is some truth to it.

Thanks for the kind words and I'm glad you appreciate my ramblings.


----------



## waynes world

barato said:


> Is it true that earbuds are not actually good at producing deep bass?






fooltoque said:


> Welcome to the thread.
> 
> I'm going to leave the more technical questions to more knowledgeable folks here, but yeah as you say it is true that getting deep bass in earbuds is more challenging. That said, as a moderate bass-head myself, in the last few months I've found myself 2 earbuds that totally fit my needs bass-wise. FiiO FF3, which is really popular around here lately, and the Berzerker 1, one of the DIY offerings from a earbuds thread resident, @RikudouGoku. Riku's bud I actually EQ down the bass just a touch, cause it's a bit too much for me.



I lean toward semi-bass-headedness, and I loved the bass that iem's offered.. until they started destroying my ears (tinnitus, ear infections etc), so I was forced into lowly earbuds. But alas, earbuds rock! And yes, some have rather great bass: Sabia earbuds, Smatbat ST10 BG's, and Fiio FF3's come to mind (that I've heard).



WoodyLuvr said:


> *Come one, come all! To the Flathead Sanctuary!*
> 
> The *Flathead Sanctuary* is a *community-driven* neutral zone where all things earbud related can be openly and freely discussed sans censorship. No hidden agendas. No cults. No banned manufacturer names. No in-your-face advertising. A place where everyone's opinions, thoughts, and experiences are shared through civil discourse. A sanctuary where all earbud types, ranging from branded to custom-made to do-it-yourself, are most welcome.
> 
> ...



I'm sure glad that the rules don't exclude "Excessive OT commentary" LOL!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

waynes world said:


> I lean toward semi-bass-headedness, and I loved the bass that iem's offered.. until they started destroying my ears (tinnitus, ear infections etc), so I was forced into lowly earbuds. But alas, earbuds rock! And yes, some have rather great bass: Sabia earbuds, Smatbat ST10 BG's, and Fiio FF3's come to mind (that I've heard).
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure glad that the rules don't exclude "Excessive OT commentary" LOL!



I still think I should be in charge...😜


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Good stuff! I don't remember if you mentioned this before, but what's your plan for the future with these shells/buds? Are you planning to sell or distribute them and if so, how? This looks like a cool project and I like your enthusiasm for it. 👍😎


Thank you for such support. I just did it for myself and decided to share with everyone because I decided that these hulls really turned out to be successful.

Regarding sales - I planned that everyone would do it on their own, because you can choose a huge number of speakers with different sounds to suit your preferences, I would rather help with printing cases and that's all, although I have several models - but sending from them will be very expensive .

Regarding improvement and development, it takes time, which I don’t have much, but in general, I still don’t see what I could improve.

Therefore, if you have certain knowledge, you can make yourself first-class earbuds with excellent sound


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Your wish is my command. This is a pic I took last night while I still had them on a black cable to test with an SE source. I liked them so much I switched to a white modular cable so I can use them with any source until I have time to complete the handmade cable I'm going to braid for them which is planned to be a 2x2x2x2 with 4 strands of gold cable and 4 strands of black in alternating pairs likely in some kind of helix braid but I haven't fully decided on vraid type yet.
> 
> I call them the 150ohms to Freedom buds because the first song I heard on them was Sublime's 40oz to Freedom when I plugged them in after their first assembly before any revisions. It seemed cool at the time...lol!


Those are some fine looking buds @JAnonymous5150 !  Fine looking buds.


----------



## jeejack

o0genesis0o said:


> Nothing serious. The guy is actually an acquaintance / friend (Reddit's people count as friends, right?). He was over the moon with Fiio FF3, so he followed up with E5000 to finish the bass head combo. No blaming at all. I'm curious, though, because his E5000 "has no bass", but E5000 is one of the most bass head IEMs out there. Anyhow, he is bringing the unit back to store to see if there is any defect.
> 
> 
> 
> FF3 makes me wants to listen to drum covers, which never happens before (Though @JAnonymous5150 politely but firmly let me know that the drummer I listen to on YouTube heavily compresses her drum sounds for extra punchiness). I've never cared about drum sound before FF3, tbh. I'm eager to try the bass cannons by Riku one day to hear how much he can push with the usual MX500 shells.


Here you go, your bass cannons. It does not require any tuning. I remember you started DIY
15.4mm Flat Earphones Speaker Unit Upgraded Composite Titanium Diaphragm Drivers MX500 DIY
https://a.aliexpress.com/_ms1M9o4


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> Those are some fine looking buds @JAnonymous5150 !  Fine looking buds.



Dude, I surprised myself with how good they came out. Particularly with how tight and low reaching I got the bass and with how big I was able to get the soundstage to extend to. 

While I have some time next weekend Inam going to do another build with the same shells, but with the 130 bery driver to see what I can do with it.

After that, I'll probably have to put most DIYing on hold because my schedule and work load is gonna make for very little free time and now that I have seen what taking my time with a pair of buds can yield, I am not going to be down for quickie builds. This is going to be fun.

I'm ordering a portable organizer for my supplies so I can possibly take some with me and DIY on tour when I'm bored lol!


----------



## sunsun89

Mr.HiAudio said:


> Thank you for such support. I just did it for myself and decided to share with everyone because I decided that these hulls really turned out to be successful.
> 
> Regarding sales - I planned that everyone would do it on their own, because you can choose a huge number of speakers with different sounds to suit your preferences, I would rather help with printing cases and that's all, although I have several models - but sending from them will be very expensive .
> 
> ...


hi, can i know which 2pin that can plug in your 3d print shell? because theres to many different 2pin spec in the market.


btw can this 2pin fit into your shell?


----------



## Mr.HiAudio (Oct 4, 2022)

sunsun89 said:


> hi, can i know which 2pin that can plug in your 3d print shell? because theres to many different 2pin spec in the market.
> 
> 
> btw can this 2pin fit into your shell?


Hello 
Needed this:



they get up tight, but they hold even without glue 
soon I will make a video on how to solder and make them

Link: 



Spoiler



https://a.aliexpress.com/_DlEWTPp


----------



## o0genesis0o

jeejack said:


> Here you go, your bass cannons. It does not require any tuning. I remember you started DIY
> 15.4mm Flat Earphones Speaker Unit Upgraded Composite Titanium Diaphragm Drivers MX500 DIY
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_ms1M9o4







Added to basket with others. That looks suspiciously like a driver that I accidentally broke.

I'm thinking about starting a database of driver measurements (maybe a squiglink database but with earbuds measurements). Is there such project somewhere, so that I can leverage rather than making a new one 

Looking for some affordable MX500 shells with preinstalled MMCX plug at the moment. I figured if everything are MMCX-enabled, I will need less storage space. Just put each pair in a tiny zip lock bag and stuff them in a drawer.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> Those are some fine looking buds @JAnonymous5150 !  Fine looking buds.



Thank you kindly bro!


----------



## o0genesis0o

Mr.HiAudio said:


> Thank you for such support. I just did it for myself and decided to share with everyone because I decided that these hulls really turned out to be successful.
> 
> Regarding sales - I planned that everyone would do it on their own, because you can choose a huge number of speakers with different sounds to suit your preferences, I would rather help with printing cases and that's all, although I have several models - but sending from them will be very expensive .
> 
> ...







I'm imagining printing your cat paw shells with a crystal clear material like Moondrop Blessing 2 or the Totem prototype ear buds from TGXears. It would be so cool to make the shell yourself as well. Imaging printing shells with bass tubes built in.

Wait, isn't that Fiio EM5?


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> I perfected the tuning of the 600 Ohm Be 2 nights ago to within 1 dB from 100Hz-8kHz and it’s an astounding sound. Honest The best I’ve heard at any price. Nothing irritates and everything amazes. To me, audio is like medicine or shooting an asteroid with a satellite: careful, meticulous science


What is the efficiency rating of those drivers? I am still wondering what the driver is in the Yinman 2.0 600. I feel much the same about these as you do your 600 Be. There are NO irritating points to mention at all, and they really do sound good even from 80mW output (Shanling M0), which I KNOW are not driving them to full potential at all and they can get above my normal comfort level in volume. If I didn't have more powerful gear, I COULD live with the sound of them from a lesser source. Fortunately for my ears, I DO have more powerful sources, and am quite spoiled with the sound of these once they tighten up, treble becomes beautiful, and dynamics are on point. 

One day I may have to take one for the team, and purchase a set to extract the driver... 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> I understand the feeling, but you can't look at it that way or you're gonna have problems because there are always gonna be people who misinterpret what you say, don't even know what they actually like, or for any number of other reasons will be undatisfied with products they purchased and some will decide to blame you.
> 
> Frankly, that's BS. Reviews aren't for that. They are simply a window into one individual's (the reviewer) experience that is being relayed to give the consumer some basis for narrowing down options from an otherwise immense pool of possibilities. That's it. No guarntees. Nobody saying that you're experience will be the same.
> 
> ...


I NEVER blame the reviewer, even if I think they are TOTALLY off base. For instance, and you probably already know my thoughts on this, I NEVER agree with Crinacles rankings/reviews, but find them invaluable nonetheless because if nothing else he is SUPER consistent, and I know what to expect. One I start seeing more of your reviews (that are relevant to what I am looking to procure), I think that I will look to yours as well. 

My point is for you to be as helpful as you possibly can for others, you just keep right on doing what you are doing and keep consistent. As time goes by, you will build a following (or more likely, have already done this) that can rely on your reviews to get them started in the right direction (if not all out blind buys on their part). I for one love reading your reviews! I don't always agree with your findings, but who cares?! Your ears tell you what they tell you, and that is all any of us can do. And of those that are not able to disagree in a civil manner, they aren't that important in the grand scheme of things where this hobby is concerned anyhow. And of those that CAN disagree in a civil way, they can be helpful in understanding/learning, as long as all parties keep open minds (like most of us can and do here on this thread). 

And JUST for those idiots that aren't smart enough to realize that all ears are going to be different, and how hard it actually is to describe in an accurate and articulate manner what you are hearing, let alone put it in a cohesive fashion, maybe you should preface your reviews that you TRY and remain as objective as you can in a wholly subjective hobby and YMMV. 

Anyhow (enough of my ramblings), do NOT lose confidence in your ability to interpret and write what you are hearing for the benefit of others. I for one will read on mate! 



o0genesis0o said:


> FF3 makes me wants to listen to drum covers, which never happens before (Though @JAnonymous5150 politely but firmly let me know that the drummer I listen to on YouTube heavily compresses her drum sounds for extra punchiness). I've never cared about drum sound before FF3, tbh. I'm eager to try the bass cannons by Riku one day to hear how much he can push with the usual MX500 shells


This right here is the reason I have so many different sets. I sometimes enjoy (what others call) bass light sets, but other times, I want that raw, analog thump or deep visceral sound and etc... And sometimes I am really not sure what I am in the mood for until I put them into my ears. I may change IEMs/earbuds/headphones a few times before I get it right (for that day)... LOL


waynes world said:


> Fwiw, I really love the below cable from NiceHCK. I have the 2.5mm MMCX version for the ST10 BG's, but you can get it in 4.4 mm as well. Not only does it seem to synergize very well with the ST10's, but it is very soft, flexible and light. I wish all of my buds had this cable!
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002002015076.html


WOW! That is a very nice looking cable. To my eyes it looks JUST like the cable from the Yincrow RW3000 (which is a fantastic cable) except that the connector, splitter, and chin slider are raw/chrome rather than black, and the chin slider isn't a bead. Thanks for sharing the link for those. I will be getting a couple of those. I have been looking for a decent source for a replacement cable for earbuds (with wear down configuration) without having to do surgery on them. 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> Thanks for the kind words and I'm glad you appreciate my ramblings.


I also appreciate them. There have been some really good conversations on here stemming from your "ramblings"...


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Dude, I surprised myself with how good they came out. Particularly with how tight and low reaching I got the bass and with how big I was able to get the soundstage to extend to.
> 
> While I have some time next weekend Inam going to do another build with the same shells, but with the 130 bery driver to see what I can do with it.
> 
> ...


That’s awesome brother!  I want to know which buds will tour with you.  That’s the equivalent of you desert island buds.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> What is the efficiency rating of those drivers? I am still wondering what the driver is in the Yinman 2.0 600. I feel much the same about these as you do your 600 Be. There are NO irritating points to mention at all, and they really do sound good even from 80mW output (Shanling M0), which I KNOW are not driving them to full potential at all and they can get above my normal comfort level in volume. If I didn't have more powerful gear, I COULD live with the sound of them from a lesser source. Fortunately for my ears, I DO have more powerful sources, and am quite spoiled with the sound of these once they tighten up, treble becomes beautiful, and dynamics are on point.
> 
> One day I may have to take one for the team, and purchase a set to extract the driver...
> 
> ...


----------



## Danneq

barato said:


> Wow, surprising to see there still is such an active earbud thread, I had noticed this thread for while but not looked at it until now and had just assumed it would include IEMs, and the title was a remnant from 2009.
> 
> Earbuds have just started to pique my interest for a few reasons.
> 
> ...




Others have already replied, but I can repeat it. With earbuds fit is very important if you want them to sound good. How are your experiences with the older MX500 type shells? Yuin PK type shells?
I have owned total over 100 earbuds in total and most of them fit well or okay. I recently bought the TRN EMX and they do not fit no matter how I try. Even the bulky Dunu Alpha 1 were easier to fit in my ears... You can use different type of foams, silicon or rubber rings etc to try to improve the fit (and the bass and overall perceived SQ).

You could probably get some recommendations on good earbuds from the people here who are more up to date with the current earbuds.


----------



## samandhi

@Ronion Definitely not the same driver then. Interesting. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## barato

Any FF3 owners planning to pick TRN EMX? 
it looks like they might be using the same driver, Be coated with same diameter and impedance.


----------



## gazzington

baskingshark said:


> Bro what is he driving the E5000 with?
> 
> The E5000 is truly one of the hardest IEMs to optimally drive, due to the low sensitivity.


Very true this. I didn’t realise what it could sound like until in used the fiio m17. I’d not powered it properly before


----------



## dsonance

barato said:


> Any FF3 owners planning to pick TRN EMX?
> it looks like they might be using the same driver, Be coated with same diameter and impedance.


I have (and love) FF3, and, thinking along the same lines, did order EMX a while back. It's now only a few US states away, if tracking is to be trusted.

My expectations are pretty low at this point though, given the reviews that came out since then. The only really positive one I've seen was @fogside's, in this thread. The rest ranged from "would not recommend" to "meh".

Regarding the same driver theory, @JAnonymous5150 posted this:


JAnonymous5150 said:


> For anyone wondering if the TRN EMXs have the same bery driver as the Fiio FF3s, I asked Fiio's support and was told by the rep that they'd inquire with their R&D and production teams and get back to me.
> 
> Well, I finally got a response wherein the rep says that the Beryllium driver used in the FF3 is a Fiio in-house design created by their R&D people specifically for the FF series flathead project and that it hasn't been licensed for use by any other manufacturer in their earbuds.
> 
> ...


----------



## barato

Thanks, you guys are good at this detective work!
Maybe also possible EMX could be using rejected drivers from Fiio factory that didnt pass QA or something like that.


----------



## barato

Also, I notice Fiio ali shop is on holiday until 5th and FF5 is overdue at this point... hopefully  they are planning to release after holiday.


----------



## samandhi

barato said:


> Also, I notice Fiio ali shop is on holiday until 5th and FF5 is overdue at this point... hopefully  they are planning to release after holiday.


I think All of China is on holiday till' then?! 

My memory seems to be fading (of late) so forgive me if I'm wrong, but I thought someone posted on this thread (from another thread or FB or somewhere as an official statement) that they WERE planning on a fall release, but it had been delayed. It seems that this was at least a month ago, or maybe even more. Maybe try and do a search on this thread for it?!


----------



## o0genesis0o (Oct 4, 2022)

Maybe people on this thread (me included) scare Fiio off (“Look at how those nerds shrill FF3. If we mess up FF5, they are gonna skin us”)  

Joke aside, I wonder how impactful Head-Fi reviews are to the sell figures of audio gears. Companies like Fiio might have gathered all the data to reach generalisable conclusion. Because if people trust “reviewers” that much, then Fiio IEM line should go bankrupt a long time ago with all the “bloated”, “muddy”, “generic V-shape”, “harsh”, “piercing” reviews.

Meanwhile, the staff members at my local hifi store buy Fiio IEMs with their own money for their birthday


----------



## samandhi

Some potential news (more like rumors on the interweb ) The official website still says September:


			
				FiiO said:
			
		

> *2. FF5, expected to be available in September*
> The outer shell is still made of metal while following the same newest design language as FiiO's other new products. Moreover, it is FiiO's first flat-head earbud that comes with an MMCX detachable-cable design.
> Both the two earbud designs are innovative. This is our attitude towards flat-head earbuds. If we continue to use the classic designs and molds of our previous models, it will not make much sense to FiiO, and I think it will not help consumers either. We make flat-head earbuds for brand value over commercial value. In fact, we do not expect a big sale, but to provide those who support us all the way and prefer flat-head earbuds more choices if our time and resources permit.



And another hint, that could also contain the FF5 (since it is a launch event, not just a product launch):



			
				FiiO said:
			
		

> FiiO 2022 Autumn Launch Event·III for Q7 and K7​
> The #High Power True balanced DAC/Amp K7# comes with a six-stage audio design, just like that of our previous high-end desktop DAC/Amp K9 Pro. From the decoding to amplification process, every stage was handled by a true balanced design, thus resulting in further anti-interference, more realistic and purer sound performance.
> Catch more details at #FiiO 2022 Autumn Launch Event·III# on Sept. 29. See you then.


----------



## samandhi (Oct 4, 2022)

So, I would assume they should be launched right after all come back in November???

Edit: And it looks like the K7 hasn't launched either, so they are probably just holding off till things get back to (working) normal.


----------



## samandhi (Oct 4, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Joke aside, I wonder how impactful Head-Fi reviews are to the sell figures of audio gears. Companies like Fiio might have gathered all the data to reach generalisable conclusion. Because if people trust “reviewers” that much, then Fiio IEM line should go bankrupt a long time ago with all the “bloated”, “muddy”, “generic V-shape”, “harsh”, “piercing” reviews.


When I first bought the OG X5 and X3II, I hung out on their forums a LOT, and to me it seems as though they don't care too much about reviews, only the numbers IMHO.

Edit: But... those DAPs were amazing, and got fantastic reviews EVERYWHERE, so I could be totally off base here...


----------



## h8uthemost

Hey everyone,

I need a recommendation of what to get next. A couple months ago I got the Monk+ and KBEAR Stellar. I have quite a few iem's, but they haven't gotten any play time since I've gotten the two mentioned ear buds. I just can't get over the clarity in these buds. So...I want to continue on. 

What should be my next pair. I'm a Moondrop fan and wanted the Nameless but they're discontinued. Sucks. 

A few things im needing: has to be budget friendly. Since I'm new to the buds I don't really want to pay over$20 for my next pair. Although I can go a bit higher if there's one I just have to have. And the other thing is clarity and some soundstage .

I think that should be enough for a recommendation for my next pair. If you need some more info please let me know.

Thank you


----------



## samandhi

h8uthemost said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> I need a recommendation of what to get next. A couple months ago I got the Monk+ and KBEAR Stellar. I have quite a few iem's, but they haven't gotten any play time since I've gotten the two mentioned ear buds. I just can't get over the clarity in these buds. So...I want to continue on.
> 
> ...


Have you looked at the NichHCK EB2S? They sound a lot like the Smabat M2s Pro (with stock 40ohm LCP driver) IMO.


----------



## 4ceratops

h8uthemost said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> I need a recommendation of what to get next. A couple months ago I got the Monk+ and KBEAR Stellar. I have quite a few iem's, but they haven't gotten any play time since I've gotten the two mentioned ear buds. I just can't get over the clarity in these buds. So...I want to continue on.
> 
> ...


As an owner of NiceHCK EB2s, I can confirm that these are decent buds, but they don't have anything special to appeal to me (except for the great metal design). They are sonically overly cautious and restrained, while being a bit bass-light even for buds. In the same price range (about 20€), I for one would recommend combining the buds RY4S Plus with some of the same manufacturer's budget cables. 

Note that my recommendation is for the Plus version and not the version without this designation, or the 300 Ohm version.

These are the buds that made me rethink my collection of IEMs under 100€ (of the more decent ones perhaps TinHifi T3 plus, Moondrop Aria, Reecho SG 01 Ova, KZ AS16 Pro, TRN TA1 Max, ...). Currently, the RY4S Plus steals about half the time in competition with all the aforementioned IEMs.

Buds:

https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/33...lgo_pvid=a3d90f6f-56e3-4f47-ab3b-665ae064dcf5

Cable:

https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/40...00007856682887!sea&curPageLogUid=gktbnXX0AGXN


----------



## o0genesis0o (Oct 4, 2022)

I have a box! Should be my M4 and drivers… oddly small box though








This is no Smatbat M4! Where are my Smabat gear that I am supposed to review  

Edit: E5000 + Megatron = bass cannon.


----------



## o0genesis0o

VE Master 4.4 with Megatron.

One word impression: Wow…

Btw, I didn’t know that these MX500 shells are metal. Might be tricky to drill bass holes, but so nice. I thought they are cheap silvery plastic based on Internet pictures


----------



## o0genesis0o (Oct 4, 2022)

Nevermind, the whole gang is here.

First impressions with the stock driver: jezz the ice pick. Why???

Good bass though. It has the crunch and slam like FF3. Not sure whether they are on the same level without A/B. But jezz the ice pick. Why tune like this??

Edit: btw, it’s more shoutiness than stabbing harsh like KZ and CCA.

Edit 2: the shout is song dependent. Some are less troublesome than others. Not completely broken like the first impressions, but still, not a good first impression.


----------



## h8uthemost (Oct 4, 2022)

HUGE thank you's samandhi  and 4ceratops . That was exactly the info I was looking for.

Thanks again!

EDIT: Had a minute to look them over, and it looks like I'm going to get both. The RY4S looks especially appealing having a detachable cable and all. But they both look like exactly what I want.





​


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> That’s awesome brother!  I want to know which buds will tour with you.  That’s the equivalent of you desert island buds.



Buds are so small I plan to bring quite a few pairs. I also ordered a few organizer boxes so that I can bring some DIY materials on tour with me so that I can build some buds if I want to when we have long travel days and such.

I normally bring 3 to 4 over ears with me plus DACs and Amps so I don't think the buds are gonna be a problem lol!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

barato said:


> Any FF3 owners planning to pick TRN EMX?
> it looks like they might be using the same driver, Be coated with same diameter and impedance.



I asked Fiio about this and they reaponded by saying that the driver in the FF3 is a proprietary model they developed in house and that it hasn't been licensed for use by an othet manufacturer.


----------



## nymz

barato said:


> Any FF3 owners planning to pick TRN EMX?
> it looks like they might be using the same driver, Be coated with same diameter and impedance.



I have just got EMX in for review but on a quick listen I can tell you that FF3 is miles away and the signature is a bit different, with FF3 being warmer but still more technical.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

h8uthemost said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> I need a recommendation of what to get next. A couple months ago I got the Monk+ and KBEAR Stellar. I have quite a few iem's, but they haven't gotten any play time since I've gotten the two mentioned ear buds. I just can't get over the clarity in these buds. So...I want to continue on.
> 
> ...



The first bud that came to my mind was the Toneking TP16. You can buy them off of AliExpress or Penon Audio's webpage for less than $20 and they are a fantastic earbud. I actually listen to mine a lot despite owning many significantly more expensive pairs of buds. The TP16s are a pretty balanced bud with a slight bass elevation to give the low end some thump that's kept tight, detailed, and we controlled. The mids may be the best I have heard in the under $20 price range. The highs extend well without being peaky and give you lots of detail.

The TP16s also happen to have very good clarity, a pretty large soundstage that is both wide and deep, and it has good technicalities and detail retrieval (as good as any bud I have heard in that under $20 range). The TP16s sound like they'd be right up your alley.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> I have a box! Should be my M4 and drivers… oddly small box though
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Congrats on finding the Megatron bro! I love mine and I have a feeling you're gonna dig yours too. Remember, you promised to let me know what you think of it. I'll give you a day or so to try it out and then I expect a first impressions post here. 😉


----------



## baskingshark

o0genesis0o said:


> Nevermind, the whole gang is here.
> 
> First impressions with the stock driver: jezz the ice pick. Why???
> 
> ...



The "ice pick" is probably due to an overzealous boosted upper mids 2/3 kHz area, which is a Smabat classic house tuning. Perhaps full foams or using them at lower volumes (Fletcher Munson curve) may tame this area somewhat. 

I've actually fedback to some CHIFI companies about this peak, I think their local market prefer boosted upper mids to complement their music, which features a lot of female vocals. They even have a term for it: musical poison 毒音. 
In contrast, most western audiences prefer not to have this peak, but if you view it from the manufacturer's point of view, the local Chinese market is a 1 billion strong market, compared to maybe a few thousand rabid CHIFI fans outside China. A rep from TRN told me that the West contributes < 30% of their sales, so the tuners probably tune their IEMs/earbuds for the local population first, which is where the most sales are.


----------



## o0genesis0o

baskingshark said:


> The "ice pick" is probably due to an overzealous boosted upper mids 2/3 kHz area, which is a Smabat classic house tuning. Perhaps full foams or using them at lower volumes (Fletcher Munson curve) may tame this area somewhat.
> 
> I've actually fedback to some CHIFI companies about this peak, I think their local market prefer boosted upper mids to complement their music, which features a lot of female vocals. They even have a term for it: musical poison 毒音.
> In contrast, most western audiences prefer not to have this peak, but if you view it from the manufacturer's point of view, the local Chinese market is a 1 billion strong market, compared to maybe a few thousand rabid CHIFI fans outside China. A rep from TRN told me that the West contributes < 30% of their sales, so the tuners probably tune their IEMs/earbuds for the local population first, which is where the most sales are.



You talk to manufacturers? That's so cool.

Definitely overly zealous ear-gain. The amount of ear-gain on Smabat M4 is just embarrassing. Diffuse-field target? I remember reading an article that many Chinese grew up listening to this kind of sound, mostly due to low quality stuffs available pervasively years ago when the country was not rich. So, this kind of harsh and shouty sound defines the taste of a whole generation. Anyhow, I'll definitely feedback to folks at Smabat. On the plus side, I still have 4 more drivers to compare.

Btw, DON"T change the drivers anywhere not stable where you can lose stuffs. There are o-rings inside the help sealing the driver against the ear pieces, and they fall out easily. The experience of changing the driver is more finicky than what I thought. I'm quite worried that I might cross-thread the drivers.


Re: VE Master 4.4: I take back my initial "wow". The technical performance is definitely higher than anything I have been able to make, but the tuning is quite aggressive. The whole sound signature reminds me of LETSHUOER S12, that screams "insecure". You have excellent drivers already, you don't need too much ear-gain and mid-treble to fake resolution. The resolution is already there, why trying too hard. Jeez.


----------



## dsonance

Ronion said:


> They can be a dicey opening.  Some of them are glued, some of them are not.  If they are not, they are easy and tuning them to something special is also easy and I could tell you how.  If the driver looks like this, it’s a good one.


Unfortunately, mine seem to be glued.


----------



## barato

baskingshark said:


> The "ice pick" is probably due to an overzealous boosted upper mids 2/3 kHz area, which is a Smabat classic house tuning. Perhaps full foams or using them at lower volumes (Fletcher Munson curve) may tame this area somewhat.
> 
> I've actually fedback to some CHIFI companies about this peak, I think their local market prefer boosted upper mids to complement their music, which features a lot of female vocals. They even have a term for it: musical poison 毒音.
> In contrast, most western audiences prefer not to have this peak, but if you view it from the manufacturer's point of view, the local Chinese market is a 1 billion strong market, compared to maybe a few thousand rabid CHIFI fans outside China. A rep from TRN told me that the West contributes < 30% of their sales, so the tuners probably tune their IEMs/earbuds for the local population first, which is where the most sales are.


very interesting, thanks for the insight.


----------



## Ronion

dsonance said:


> Unfortunately, mine seem to be glued.


Then you have a 50% chance of breaking it.  If you don’t like it, you have little to lose.  Another friend of mine just got some that were broken if that makes you feel better.  These have fallen off my “worthwhile” list.  Too many issues.  Sorry man.


----------



## o0genesis0o

dsonance said:


> Unfortunately, mine seem to be glued.


I blasted my YD30 with hair dryer and then pried it opened with a bottle opener. There were some scratches, but everything was fine. No guarantee, but you might try


----------



## dsonance

o0genesis0o said:


> I blasted my YD30 with hair dryer and then pried it opened with a bottle opener. There were some scratches, but everything was fine. No guarantee, but you might try


I was thinking about using a hair dryer, but the bottle opener technique took me by surprise


----------



## o0genesis0o

dsonance said:


> I was thinking about using a hair dryer, but the bottle opener technique took me by surprise



Btw, you should pry from the top rather than the bottom where the voice coils are. I accidentally broke one of my drivers because the bottle opener from my knife tore the coils.


----------



## dsonance

Ronion said:


> Then you have a 50% chance of breaking it.  If you don’t like it, you have little to lose.  Another friend of mine just got some that were broken if that makes you feel better.  These have fallen off my “worthwhile” list.  Too many issues.  Sorry man.


Before I break them - which, at this point, is something I'd give more than 50% chance, TBH - let me know if you have any interest in them. I'll gladly ship them to you for research. Would be good to know if they are or aren't worth the trouble, driver-wise.


----------



## dsonance

o0genesis0o said:


> Btw, you should pry from the top rather than the bottom where the voice coils are. I accidentally broke one of my drivers because the bottle opener from my knife tore the coils.


By "bottom" do you mean the side closest to the shell's stem?


----------



## o0genesis0o

dsonance said:


> By "bottom" do you mean the side closest to the shell's stem?


Yup


----------



## ttorbic

o0genesis0o said:


> Re: VE Master 4.4: I take back my initial "wow". The technical performance is definitely higher than anything I have been able to make, but the tuning is quite aggressive. The whole sound signature reminds me of LETSHUOER S12, that screams "insecure". You have excellent drivers already, you don't need too much ear-gain and mid-treble to fake resolution. The resolution is already there, why trying too hard. Jeez.


You might want to pair it with a different source - the Megatron can be overly clinical. Do you have a warmer source?


----------



## lanister

Hi. I currently love my NiceHck Eb2s, but I feel it kind of lacking bass with genre like Metal. How can I find a earbud that sound familiar to Eb2s with more bass around 100$. I am thinking abt Fiio Ff3, Smabat St10 or Shozy Cygnus? Can u guys give me some advices?


----------



## o0genesis0o

ttorbic said:


> You might want to pair it with a different source - the Megatron can be overly clinical. Do you have a warmer source?


I have creative X1 and Shanling UP4. I’ll report back when I find a 4.4 to 3.5 or 2.5 adapter. Personally, I don’t think the tuning of VE master (or S12 for that matter) can be fixed by something subtle as source, though I fully acknowledge that sources have different tonality.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Oct 5, 2022)

lanister said:


> Hi. I currently love my NiceHck Eb2s, but I feel it kind of lacking bass with genre like Metal. How can I find a earbud that sound familiar to Eb2s with more bass around 100$. I am thinking abt Fiio Ff3, Smabat St10 or Shozy Cygnus? Can u guys give me some advices?



1 vote for FF3. Its bass rendering is quite special and satisfying. If it is not bright enough for you, you can always use donut foams (included in the box)

Edit: I don’t know how shouty EB2s are, but if it is bright and shout, you might also consider Smabat M4 with stock driver. Not my taste, but bass is quite decent and tuning might be your preference.


----------



## ttorbic

o0genesis0o said:


> I have creative X1 and Shanling UP4. I’ll report back when I find a 4.4 to 3.5 or 2.5 adapter. Personally, I don’t think the tuning of VE master (or S12 for that matter) can be fixed by something subtle as source, though I fully acknowledge that sources have different tonality.


Well said! I have the S12, and I needed to mod it a bit to tame the peaks. I barely use it ever since earbuds entered my life lol. I will probably sell it soon


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Nevermind, the whole gang is here.
> 
> First impressions with the stock driver: jezz the ice pick. Why???
> 
> ...


Well, congrats on your new shiny!  I was getting worried (for your sake) about you (not) getting your Megatron... 

I know right? I REALLY want to like these as they REALLY are a nice concept, and seem to be very well built, plus they just look nice too. But I am having a really hard time getting past the 2K peak without some EQ. Having said that, after removing the peak, they do actually have a pretty nice sound to them IMO.


h8uthemost said:


> HUGE thank you's samandhi  and 4ceratops . That was exactly the info I was looking for.
> 
> Thanks again!
> 
> ...


Fantastic! Congrats on your new shinies! 


nymz said:


> I have just got EMX in for review but on a quick listen I can tell you that FF3 is miles away and the signature is a bit different, with FF3 being warmer but still more technical.


I am not sure there are many buds out atm that can please so many different preferences IMO. Congrats on your new shiny though! 


baskingshark said:


> The "ice pick" is probably due to an overzealous boosted upper mids 2/3 kHz area, which is a Smabat classic house tuning. Perhaps full foams or using them at lower volumes (Fletcher Munson curve) may tame this area somewhat.
> 
> I've actually fedback to some CHIFI companies about this peak, I think their local market prefer boosted upper mids to complement their music, which features a lot of female vocals. They even have a term for it: musical poison 毒音.
> In contrast, most western audiences prefer not to have this peak, but if you view it from the manufacturer's point of view, the local Chinese market is a 1 billion strong market, compared to maybe a few thousand rabid CHIFI fans outside China. A rep from TRN told me that the West contributes < 30% of their sales, so the tuners probably tune their IEMs/earbuds for the local population first, which is where the most sales are.


Now I don't feel so bad about making such a fuss about it myself. lol

Having said that, you are right insomuch as using a different source does NOT fix these, it is just way too boosted for warmer sources to overcome.

That is all interesting information about the tuning phenomena, but I guess I STILL don't get it. Doesn't it hurt their ears (especially with female vocals)? To me it changes the sound overall tonally (in a bad way IMO). I still think there is more to it than that though (though maybe not).

I have had no conversations with any manufacturers, and all of this is simply my belief, but it makes logical sense to me. Having said that, I believe a lot of Chinese makers use that boost as a sort of "pseudo" clarity, rather than tune the treble (which remains one of the hardest parts to properly tune on a driver). Rather than spend the money on R&D, simply boost this area, and you have saved a bundle in the end IMO.

Having only heard one exception to this (the Yincrow RW3000), if you take this peak away, the treble becomes REALLY lacking in almost all cases (go ahead give it a try)... I believe that Yincrow has tuned the treble VERY well on the RW3000 but it also has a boosted gain (probably for the Chinese throwback generation like you mentioned). Even the FF3 is not immune to it, though it is MUCH less than most of the cheaper brands out there.

Look at the Chaconne... It has no boosted gain, but is very linear and smooth, without sacrificing any details. This is more expensive to achieve than some of the other brands want to spend on tuning IMO. The IEM world is not immune to this tuning either. For example DUNU, while having some great IEMs adds this to pretty much all of their lines too (some worse than others). They DO have enough in other areas that it isn't TOO bad, but for me if given any sort of loud(ish) volume they still become harsh.

Don't get me wrong, I believe you DO need (the right amount of) pina gain to complete the sound, but over boosting is the topic that I am addressing here.


lanister said:


> Hi. I currently love my NiceHck Eb2s, but I feel it kind of lacking bass with genre like Metal. How can I find a earbud that sound familiar to Eb2s with more bass around 100$. I am thinking abt Fiio Ff3, Smabat St10 or Shozy Cygnus? Can u guys give me some advices?


I think the Smabat ST10S B&G (150ohm) are more of a fit that are like the EB2S than the FF3, but I WILL have to say that I personally like the FF3 better. I cannot speak for the Shozy, as I have not heard them though.

The reason I mention this is because while the FF3 sound better to my ears, the ST10S B&G have a more similar signature with boosted bass, and a bit of a V signature, where the FF3 are much more bassy overall, and the actual overall signature is warm, and treble is a bit laid back.


o0genesis0o said:


> I have creative X1 and Shanling UP4. I’ll report back when I find a 4.4 to 3.5 or 2.5 adapter. Personally, I don’t think the tuning of VE master (or S12 for that matter) can be fixed by something subtle as source, though I fully acknowledge that sources have different tonality.


This is a really great adapter for converting to 3.5mm from 4.4mm. The same company makes a great adapter to 2.5mm also (if that is what you are after). I have pretty much any adapter one might need (from these people) to any size one might need (except 3.5mm to anything balanced). No noise or degradation in sound to my ears.


----------



## baskingshark

samandhi said:


> Now I don't feel so bad about making such a fuss about it myself. lol
> 
> Having said that, you are right insomuch as using a different source does NOT fix these, it is just way too boosted for warmer sources to overcome.
> 
> ...



Yeah I think you are right that a lot of budget CHIFI IEMs boost the upper mids for fake details. It wows you at first listen, but you realize after a while the treble is grainy and it is just the boosted frequencies giving good clarity, which does not equate to good micro-detailing.

There are neutralish studio monitor type IEMs that do not have a marked boost in the upper frequencies, but still keep the good micro-details, which of course may involve much more fine-tuning (literal tuning) and perhaps better drivers. These generally are pricier though.


----------



## samandhi (Oct 5, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> There are neutralish studio monitor type IEMs that do not have a marked boost in the upper frequencies, but still keep the good micro-details, which of course may involve much more fine-tuning (literal tuning) and perhaps better drivers. These generally are pricier though.


And these are the ones I look for at any price point. Though I DO have to say, I tend to go for all sorts of tuning, and don't stick to just one. Also having said that, I actually don't mind upper frequency boosts (to an extent). But then again, I am pretty deaf to frequencies past 12K (at my age).

This whole premise is what surprised me with the Maria II (for example). They are just as harsh as the Smabat M4 (to my ears), but they are supposed to be at flagship levels. Maybe this was purposeful, but it is tuned in such a way (a lot like the OG Sennheiser HD700, but just MORE in the 2-3K region) that it changes the overall tonality, making them not accurate at all (though still pleasant to listen to sometimes and for some things).

This is the main reason that the Sennheiser HD700 was discontinued IMO. It was an outlier in its time, and tuned so much different than its brethren, not many people fancied the tuning. Mostly because they were much like the Maria II are nowadays (a one-off tuning). I still love my HD700, and wouldn't trade them for the world, but Sennheiser tried something new with these, and mostly failed. People (not from China) just weren't ready for this IMO.

Edit:


			
				baskingshark said:
			
		

> Yeah I think you are right that a lot of budget CHIFI IEMs boost the upper mids for fake details. It wows you at first listen, but you realize after a while the treble is grainy and it is just the boosted frequencies giving good clarity, which does not equate to good micro-detailing.



Succinctly put, and a perfect way to put it in a short summary!  And this is not even covering the people for which it actually hurts their ears upon first listen (at most any volume but the lowest).


----------



## samandhi

Ya' know, with all the musical talent we have in here (@Ronion w/piano, @o0genesis0o with harmonica and violin, @JAnonymous5150 with drums and sax and whatever else, me with vocals, and who knows how many others we don't know about) we could start our own touring (secondary) group. We could call ourselves "Earbud-alicious" (or something silly like that)... LOL


----------



## JAnonymous5150

lanister said:


> Hi. I currently love my NiceHck Eb2s, but I feel it kind of lacking bass with genre like Metal. How can I find a earbud that sound familiar to Eb2s with more bass around 100$. I am thinking abt Fiio Ff3, Smabat St10 or Shozy Cygnus? Can u guys give me some advices?



I'd say the FF3 should be pretty awesome for metal. I listen to a lot of metal and hard rock related genres with the FF3s myself and they are one of the best at it at any price, let alone for under $100.

I also own the Cygnus and I like it a lot, but not for metal and similar genres. The mids are definitely the star of the show on the Cygnus and, while the bass is there and of good quality, it just doesn't have enough low end presence to satisfy in those types of music, IMO.

The second earbud I would recommend is the Penon Audio BS1 Official. It is another earbud with very solid low end performance and great technical prowess as well. It actually maybe better for you than the FF3s depending on how you like your treble tuning. The treble on the BS1s is more extended with significantly more energy and, as a result, micro detail in the top end of the sonic spectrum.

Go with the FF3 is you want their huge presentation and rolled off treble. Check out the BS1 officials if you want more treble energy to support cymbal crashes and the higher notes on shredding guitars while still having the deep powerful bass. The BS1s just don't quite have the presentation and tactility the FF3s have which isn't surprising because I'm not aware of another earbud that matches the FF3s in that regard.

Either way, I think it would be hard to go wrong with either the FF3s or the BS1s. Both are amongst the very best earbuds available for under $100. I hope this was helpful.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Ya' know, with all the musical talent we have in here (@Ronion w/piano, @o0genesis0o with harmonica and violin, @JAnonymous5150 with drums and sax and whatever else, me with vocals, and who knows how many others we don't know about) we could start our own touring (secondary) group. We could call ourselves "Earbud-alicious" (or something silly like that)... LOL



Count me in! I want it noted that I don't have grey hair yet. Not a single one.

P.S. No drummer in the pic? Typical! 😉


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Count me in! I want it noted that I don't have grey hair yet. Not a single one.
> 
> P.S. No drummer in the pic? Typical! 😉


Count yourself lucky my friend! 👴(not that I have a ton yet, but I can see it coming) lol

ROFL >>>>> 

Just for you brother!


----------



## o0genesis0o

Listening to Smabat M4 drivers.

So far:





Seriously, lucky me that I started my unexpected and rewarding earbud journey with FF3. If I was unlucky enough to get any of these Smabat earbuds, I would not be in this thread  

Edit: one of the drivers is excellent though. The rest are kind of the same.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Listening to Smabat M4 drivers.
> 
> So far:
> 
> ...


You could also possibly look at is as sort of unlucky... You picked one of the best of the best, therefore everything else is ruined for you... LOL

Which driver are you referring to?


----------



## o0genesis0o

All impressions directly from VE Megatron.



Spoiler: Stock M4 driver (40ohm, 110db, LCP composite)



Stock M4 driver (40ohm, 110db, LCP composite)
- Shouty due to too forward ear-gain, uncomfortable to listen to.
- Surprisingly not harsh in treble region. 
- Bass is more potent than what I expect. 
- Decently resolving, nothing too stand out. The tuning makes appreciating technical performance hard





Spoiler: BA driver (22ohm)



BA driver (22ohm)
- Well-tuned upper midrange and ear-gain. Forward, but not too much. 
- BA driver has surprisingly potent bass. Not outstanding, but surprising for a single BA driver. The bass tube must be working magic here. However, it is still BA bass that lacks texture and resolution. 
- Slightly boxy sound, bloomy sound, likely to due to excess energy around 500Hz. Cello does not sound very good. 
- Macro-detail is good, even slightly above average.
- Micro-detail is average at most. Air is lacking. 
- Soundstage is small but has an okay level of layering, making it kind of interesting. 
- In overall, decent IEM performance.





Spoiler: Super One driver (100ohm, fibre)



Super One driver (100ohm, fibre)
- Too forward ear-gain. Harsh vocals like Despacito or Ed Sheeran's = album can sound uncomfortable. 
- The overall sound signature leans toward the upper frequencies. It does not sound hollow or lacking body, but does not sound very full. 
- There is a slight piercing to the sound as well, possibly due to excessive energy around 5-6k
- Bass is "fast" with sharp punch, but lacks the body and rumble, even on tracks with exciting bass like Despacito. 
- Claps are natural and decently detailed in Synchro (Bom-ba-ye) by Tokyo Kosei Wind Orchestra, meaning the true treble range is tuned relatively correct. 
- Soundstage is what you expect from earbuds. The center image is quite upfront due to the ear-gain, so you might feel the soundstage lacking depth. 
- Resolution is maybe a bit above average, but it's likely just due to the sharpening effect of the tuning rather than the true resolving power of the driver.





Spoiler: ST20 driver (40ohm, LCP)



ST20 driver (40ohm, LCP)
- Decent rendering of cello. There are decent texture and details going in the bassy sound of cello.
- Still high ear-gain, but does not completely pass the pain limit. Despacito still sounds shouty, but can be considered a "tuning choice" rather than a "tuning mistake". Most tolerable midrange tuning so far. 
- Acceptable bass. "Fast" with sharp punch and decent body and rumble. Better than BA bass, and even some lower-quality DD bass (e.g., Moondrop Aria). Not quite FF3 level. 
- Claps are natural and decently detailed in Synchro (Bom-ba-ye) by Tokyo Kosei Wind Orchestra, meaning the true treble range is tuned relatively correct. 
- Soundstage is what you expect from earbuds. The center image is quite upfront due to the ear-gain, so you might feel the soundstage lacking depth.





Spoiler: ST20 Pro driver (100ohm, Fiber)



ST20 Pro driver (100ohm, Fiber)
- Overall: Most acceptable driver so far. Still Smabat house-sound, but with slightly higher technical performance. 
- Cello is acceptable, but lacks the outstanding texture and grip of something like FF3. 
- Male vocal of Andrea Bocelli is forward and slightly lean, but acceptable. 
- Quite similar to ST20 driver. The ear-gain is still high, but not untolerable. Vocal is quite forward and separated from the background. 
- Acceptable bass. Again, similar to ST20. Lack the chunky, textured bass of FF3, even with Despacito. 
- Claps are natural and decently detailed in Synchro (Bom-ba-ye) by Tokyo Kosei Wind Orchestra, meaning the true treble range is tuned relatively correct. 
- Soundstage is what you expect from earbuds. The center image is quite upfront due to the ear-gain, so you might feel the soundstage lacking depth.





Spoiler: ST10S driver (150ohm, Dome)



ST10S driver (150ohm, Dome)
- Overall: best driver in the entire line up without a doubt. It's actually enjoyable rather than tolerable or acceptable. 
- Cello is actually good. Textured and grippy, not too overly smoothened. 
- Hallelujah! the midrange is not overly forward anymore! Andrea Bocelli's voice has enough body and warmth. Despacito is entirely exceptable, no hard edge, no shout.
- Bass is chunky and textured. May not be FF3 level, but the rendering of Despacito bass line is entirely satisfying. 
- Claps are natural and detailed without being too crisp or crunchy in Synchro (Bom-ba-ye) by Tokyo Kosei Wind Orchestra, meaning the true treble range is tuned well and has good resolution.
- Soundstage finally has some depth. Not too exaggerated, but quite acceptable with "And the Waltz goes on" performed by Andre Rieu and orchestra.





Spoiler: Best driver …



ST10S




Bonus:



Spoiler: VE Monk Plus



VE Monk Plus
- Overall: E3000 in earbuds form? Perhaps a bit less smooth in the treble region. Very easy to listen and easy to accept. 
- Warm, thick, boomy sound signature. 
- Upper-midrange is actually better tuned than most Smabat drivers. 
- Big but bloomy, kind of mushy bass. 
- Resolution is average at most. 
- Claps are natural in tonality but kind of chunky and "blunted" in Synchro (Bom-ba-ye) by Tokyo Kosei Wind Orchestra, meaning the true treble range is decently tuned but not very resolving.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> All impressions directly from VE Megatron.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow! Fantastic writeup, and so quick too. On the drivers I have I would have to agree with most of what you have said, though all of them hurt my ears to one extent or another. It is hard to decide which is less, and which is more. I think the stock 40 ohm driver is probably the worst where that is concerned. 

Having said all of that I may have to retract my previous statement SOMEWHAT. I have decided to try the warmest source I have, and it is a wonder, but things are actually a bit better. It doesn't change the tuning, but now it (at least) doesn't actually hurt near as much.



Spoiler: Asus ROG Strix Hero III G731GW > FiiO E17K (Alpen II) > Smabat M4 > Super One 100ohm Bio driver


----------



## samandhi

And btw that driver that you liked for these is the very same 150Ti driver that people been talking about being great for DIY.. is also what is in my (beloved) FQL Grand Finale buds.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Listening to Smabat M4 drivers.
> 
> So far:
> 
> ...



Thus far, I too have been quite underwhelmed by the M4s and the attendant drivers. I am actually finding some things that the Super One earbuds do pretty well, but for nearly $300 I think they're overpriced. Luckily, I have a friend of a friend that wants them and has offered me a more than fair price so I won't be losing much on them.

And I'm sorry for offering an off-topic section to this post, but I wanted to tell @mt877 that as of today I have officially joined the minidisc club. I purchased a Sony MZ-E900 in excellent condition with tons of accessories (cases, 3 extra batteries, charger, etc). The screen still works and the owner claims he basically barely used it and put it back in its box until now so the original batter still holds a charge and has normal life. The three extra batters have never been used but he tested them before he put it up for sale and they all charged normally and all that. The case is a nice clear acrylic shell.

Another cool bonus was that he included 12 blank discs and 11 discs that have various music on them but can be erased and rewritten if I don't like it. The last thing he included is a desktop minidisc burner for plugging into my computer and creating new discs. I bought it on a whim because the set was so complete and I've been curious about the medium ever since we talked about your players. The package was on my doorstep when I came home for lunch and to grab some drum recording mics so I'm stoked to get to mess around with it when I get home tonight. I was excited and thought you'd understand lol!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> All impressions directly from VE Megatron.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What about your impressions of the megatron itself bro? You promised! 😉


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Oct 5, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Count yourself lucky my friend! 👴(not that I have a ton yet, but I can see it coming) lol
> 
> ROFL >>>>>
> 
> Just for you brother!



Sadly, that's probably a pretty accurate depiction of me drumming live. A concert reviewer once wrote an article that was full of praise for my band's performance and my drumming in particular. In the article he described me as a "manic windmill of percussive power" lol! 🤣

My bandmates still make fun of me for that...


----------



## FranQL

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Sadly, that's probably a pretty accurate depiction of me drumming live. A concert reviewer on e wrote and article that was full of praise for my band's performance and my drumming in particular. In the article he described me as a "manic windmill of percussive power" lol! 🤣
> 
> My bandmates still make fun of me for that...



Damn, you'll end up with 500 contractures... seriously... a minidisc????


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Oct 5, 2022)

FranQL said:


> Damn, you'll end up with 500 contractures... seriously... a minidisc????



LOL 🤣

I blame @mt877 . See, I owned one briefly back in the day, but never really used it. I saw that his profile pic is a minidisc player and I asked him about it and he made it sound like a pretty cool physical medium I hadn't really experienced yet and you can get into it for pretty modest money. Long story short, my curiosity was piqued and when I ran across this deal I couldn't resist.

If I end up not liking it, I can easily turn a profit by reselling this stuff because I got the whole lot for much less than what I see just the player selling for on ebay. Either way, I think it could be fun!


----------



## dsonance (Oct 5, 2022)

barato said:


> Thanks, you guys are good at this detective work!
> Maybe also possible EMX could be using rejected drivers from Fiio factory that didnt pass QA or something like that.


My TRN EMX finally arrived, and I'm ready to pass it on to whoever would like to save the time on shipping from China. I'm thoroughly unimpressed, except maybe by the build, and the nice modular cable.

I very much doubt the drivers are even remotely similar to FF3's, unless it's possible to completely ruin those drivers by bad tuning and shell synergy. In any case, the bass on the EMX is nothing like FF3. It reminded me of TinHiFi P1 Plus (minus the precision and resolution, which are great on P1 Plus). To be fair, the Spanish Harlem sounded not bad, as did some other vocal and violin pieces. But, overall, I heard nothing that made me want to keep the EMX around.

I used my own cable and foams, so the whole set is still in a "like new" condition, if anybody is interested in taking it off my hands.



Spoiler


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Luckily, I have a friend of a friend that wants them and has offered me a more than fair price so I won't be losing much on them.


Lucky you. My wallet is several hundred AUD lighter, but I did not get much good sound in return   

Btw, since I will write a review for Smabat M4, for completely transparency, I'll let you know that my M4 order was given a generous discount from Smabat to facilitate the review. I saw a YouTube video reporting the status of M4 project by Smabat founder (?) and was interested by his apparent passion for the form factor and the modular idea, so I reached out in response to his invitations to reviewers. Since I want to measure all driver units, he offers a discount so that I can get everything at once. The promise is that I will give Smabat feedback and measurements (Oh yeah, they will hear my feedback for the ice pick torture of their house sound).

The whole set still costs more than FF3, in case you wonder. So, I do lose money doing this review. The ability to listen and share impressions with a few other geeks are priceless, though.



JAnonymous5150 said:


> What about your impressions of the megatron itself bro? You promised! 😉



Megatron is very hard to review, tbh. Here are some thoughts:

Absolutely useless for multi-BA, sensitive IEMs. The output impedance of this amp must be crazy, because my Hidizs MD4 (8ohm, 102db) becomes a muddy, fuzzy mess with Megatron. To put in context, MD4 with Megatron sound worse than with BTR5 via AAC (which already noticeably reduces sound quality)
Interestingly, I did not hear floor noise with MD4. 
Megatron makes Final E5000 sing! The soundstage is large and deep, mid bass is tight and controlled, sub bass hits deep, macro detail / separation is very good. E5000 finally sounds like a flagship IEM (it is indeed the flagship of the E series). Megatron absolutely mops the floor with Apple dongle in this use case. From memory, Megatron drives E5000 better than KA3 as well. My KA3 is not here, so I cannot A/B test immediately. 
Tonality wise, I think Megatron is more similar to Fiio KA3 than warmer stuffs like Creative X1 or Shanling UP4. Transient attacks are crisp.
Interesting phenomenon: Megatron has less output power when connected to phone. The amount of volume that I have to push with E5000 reminds me of the Fiio M11+ on high-gain. However, Megatron gets way louder when connected to my laptop. Beside E5000, none of my gear (including the VE Master 4.4) can stop Megatron from getting too loud. 
Last thought: I just found my Audio Technical M20x that I used in my PhD years in a drawer at my office. I don't remember M20x has ever been that punchy in the bass region. Now, I need to take the M20x off. Its clamp force and the ice pick tuning hurt my head.



dsonance said:


> My TRN EMX finally arrived, and I'm ready to pass it on to whoever would like to save the time on shipping from China. I'm thoroughly unimpressed, except maybe by the build, and the nice modular cable.
> 
> I very much doubt the drivers are even remotely similar to FF3's, unless it's possible to completely ruin those drivers by bad tuning and shell synergy. In any case, the bass on the EMX is nothing like FF3. It reminded me of TinHiFi P1 Plus (minus the precision and resolution, which are great on P1 Plus). To be fair, the Spanish Harlem sounded not bad, as did some other vocal and violin pieces. But, overall, I heard nothing that made me want to keep the EMX around
> 
> I used my own cable and foams, so the whole set is still in a "like new" condition, if anybody is interested in taking it off my hands.


Not a great way to advertise your stuffs to sell, mate  

But seriously, I wonder who the targeted audience of earbuds / IEMs with this kind of tuning is. If they have not been able to sell, they wouldn't have the incentive to keep producing this kind of tuning.


----------



## dsonance

o0genesis0o said:


> Not a great way to advertise your stuffs to sell, mate


Just practicing truth in advertising, in case the FTC is reading 

But hey, maybe someone would want to get them just to prove me wrong?...


----------



## dsonance (Oct 5, 2022)

samandhi said:


> What is the efficiency rating of those drivers? I am still wondering what the driver is in the Yinman 2.0 600. I feel much the same about these as you do your 600 Be. There are NO irritating points to mention at all, and they really do sound good even from 80mW output (Shanling M0), which I KNOW are not driving them to full potential at all and they can get above my normal comfort level in volume. If I didn't have more powerful gear, I COULD live with the sound of them from a lesser source. Fortunately for my ears, I DO have more powerful sources, and am quite spoiled with the sound of these once they tighten up, treble becomes beautiful, and dynamics are on point.
> 
> One day I may have to take one for the team, and purchase a set to extract the driver...


I finally found  tracks where the lack of power output from BTR7 to the Yinman is quite obvious. Nothing too complex: Willie Dixon's Walking The Blues is a great example. In fact, not only BTR7, but even the Atom doesn't seem to be giving it quite enough power. Only Zen CAN, on the highest gain setting, sounds right (so, I understand you preferring your 2W amp).

On the other hand, Anjani's Blue Alert album sounds deliciously intoxicating out of BTR7 (and, not in the "female poison" sense ).


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Hey guys, have any of you tried the Shozy SG? The BK has become one of my favorites in my collection and I potentially have the opportunity to pick up the SG for pretty cheap given the $138 it sold for on a couple sites like Linsoul. A lot of what I have been able to find on it is contradictory as far as reviews go (par for the course these days) so I would appreciate any impressions you all have and any comparisons you might be able to make between other well known buds.


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hey guys, have any of you tried the Shozy SG? The BK has become one of my favorites in my collection and I potentially have the opportunity to pick up the SG for pretty cheap given the $138 it sold for on a couple sites like Linsoul. A lot of what I have been able to find on it is contradictory as far as reviews go (par for the course these days) so I would appreciate any impressions you all have and any comparisons you might be able to make between other well known buds.



Here's what I wrote about the Shozy SG a while back. Original post. The thing is I ordered the Shozy SG and I may have received the higher end Shozy Gold, but I'm still not sure if I got the Gold or  just regular SG but cabled with the Gold cable and metal shell.

Right now I'm listening to Meg & Dia's Monster track from their Something Real album and it sounds pretty good.



mt877 said:


> During the recent Linsoul Spring sale I ordered the Shozy SG, so I was expecting this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## baskingshark (Oct 6, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Lucky you. My wallet is several hundred AUD lighter, but I did not get much good sound in return
> 
> Btw, since I will write a review for Smabat M4, for completely transparency, I'll let you know that my M4 order was given a generous discount from Smabat to facilitate the review. I saw a YouTube video reporting the status of M4 project by Smabat founder (?) and was interested by his apparent passion for the form factor and the modular idea, so I reached out in response to his invitations to reviewers. Since I want to measure all driver units, he offers a discount so that I can get everything at once. The promise is that I will give Smabat feedback and measurements (Oh yeah, they will hear my feedback for the ice pick torture of their house sound).
> 
> ...



Thanks for your honest review of the Smabat M4, with the various drivers. Thanks for taking one for the team and procuring the entire driver line-up!

TBH, I was a big fan of Smabat when I first got into earbuds, I bought the ST10, ST10S BG, and a lot of his other buds. But it seems their last few releases (cough cough looking at your Smabat ST20 Pro) have been quite hit or miss. Smabat Lin (the owner) has really very innovative ideas, like this modular plug-and-play driver thing, and trying to incorporate BAs also. I really wish him all the best though!




As for TRN, they are quite new to earbuds, so I wasn't expecting much from their earbud releases. Even their IEMs are quite hit or miss (actually mostly misses), they are locked in a driver nuclear race with eternal rivals KZ haha. Most of the TRN IEMs are V shaped bright shouty banshee "Female poison" type tuning, or massive V shaped basshead types with copious mid bass bleed.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Oct 6, 2022)

mt877 said:


> Here's what I wrote about the Shozy SG a while back. Original post. The thing is I ordered the Shozy SG and I may have received the higher end Shozy Gold, but I'm still not sure if I got the Gold or  just regular SG but cabled with the Gold cable and metal shell.
> 
> Right now I'm listening to Meg & Dia's Monster track from their Something Real album and it sounds pretty good.



This is interesting because the pic the seller sent me has a black cable as well. I just figured Shozy started using black at some point because they had run out of white cable or something. It never occurred to me that this might be a possibility. I'll ask him what the shells are made out of.

Anyways, thanks for the info! I'm getting things ready to listen to some of these random minidiscs full of the music the seller put on them to see what they've got going on. It should be interesting.


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Thus far, I too have been quite underwhelmed by the M4s and the attendant drivers. I am actually finding some things that the Super One earbuds do pretty well, but for nearly $300 I think they're overpriced. Luckily, I have a friend of a friend that wants them and has offered me a more than fair price so I won't be losing much on them.
> 
> And I'm sorry for offering an off-topic section to this post, but I wanted to tell @mt877 that as of today I have officially joined the minidisc club. I purchased a Sony MZ-E900 in excellent condition with tons of accessories (cases, 3 extra batteries, charger, etc). The screen still works and the owner claims he basically barely used it and put it back in its box until now so the original batter still holds a charge and has normal life. The three extra batters have never been used but he tested them before he put it up for sale and they all charged normally and all that. The case is a nice clear acrylic shell.
> 
> Another cool bonus was that he included 12 blank discs and 11 discs that have various music on them but can be erased and rewritten if I don't like it. The last thing he included is a desktop minidisc burner for plugging into my computer and creating new discs. I bought it on a whim because the set was so complete and I've been curious about the medium ever since we talked about your players. The package was on my doorstep when I came home for lunch and to grab some drum recording mics so I'm stoked to get to mess around with it when I get home tonight. I was excited and thought you'd understand lol!


Sweet! I'm not familiar with the Sony MZ-E900, but I hope you have a great time with it. Hopefully the music on the discs have the highest quality atrac compression for best sound quality.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Hey @o0genesis0o you probably already know this, but just in case you don't, the link to your ranking database spreadsheet on the pull down menu on IEM gems isn't working and neither is the link to the same on the about page. The primary link to the ranking spreadsheet on the home page is working just fine though. Just wanted to bring it to your attention in case you were unaware.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hey @o0genesis0o you probably already know this, but just in case you don't, the link to your ranking database spreadsheet on the pull down menu on IEM gems isn't working and neither is the link to the same on the about page. The primary link to the ranking spreadsheet on the home page is working just fine though. Just wanted to bring it to your attention in case you were unaware.



Thanks mate. I might have put the wrong links there. Will check and fix.


----------



## chompy

Is Smabat no longer selling m2s pro drivers? I haven't found any Aliexpress shop offering them...


----------



## samandhi

dsonance said:


> I finally found  tracks where the lack of power output from BTR7 to the Yinman is quite obvious. Nothing too complex: Willie Dixon's Walking The Blues is a great example. In fact, not only BTR7, but even the Atom doesn't seem to be giving it quite enough power. Only Zen CAN, on the highest gain setting, sounds right (so, I understand you preferring your 2W amp).
> 
> On the other hand, Anjani's Blue Alert album sounds deliciously intoxicating out of BTR7 (and, not in the "female poison" sense ).


Well, there you go, and now that you have heard it in comparison, you will always be able to equate that to when someone says they are driven just fine, but scale with more power. Because, just like I said before, I COULD live with them if I never heard them through a more powerful source. But, they better match MY personal preference via more power. 

Yeah, I was listening to (something, don't remember what now) them the other day through the Shanling M0 (I think it is something like 80mW), and it did sound really good, and I was able to get plenty of volume from them. I think just before I bought them @WoodyLuvr tested them out of a dongle and said pretty much the same thing.

I find it fascinating that you can do this and it still sounds pretty good. Try this with some Sennheisers and they will NOT sound so good... 


chompy said:


> Is Smabat no longer selling m2s pro drivers? I haven't found any Aliexpress shop offering them...


The M2s Pro and all of its drivers have been discontinued at this point to make way for the M4 modular system (which is a bit of a shame IMO)..


baskingshark said:


> TBH, I was a big fan of Smabat when I first got into earbuds, I bought the ST10, ST10S BG, and a lot of his other buds. But it seems their last few releases (cough cough looking at your Smabat ST20 Pro) have been quite hit or miss. Smabat Lin (the owner) has really very innovative ideas, like this modular plug-and-play driver thing, and trying to incorporate BAs also. I really wish him all the best though!


I felt the exact same way. And while I haven't heard the ST20 or Pro, I think the M4 is moving in the same direction. I think that they concentrated SO hard on the innovation side, that they didn't take the time to make the sound the best it could be. I'd hate to think they released this while actually KNOWING that they don't sound as good. They DO have qualites that remind me of the M2s Pro, but they are more akin to something like the TRN meh buds (with a bit of pain thrown in the mix ) IMO. 

Fortunately, I got them for 40% off and only two of the drivers, so I don't feel as though I TOTALLY wasted my money, because they really do sound good(ish) when you get rid of that boost.


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> Fortunately, I got them for 40% off and only two of the drivers, so I don't feel as though I TOTALLY wasted my money, because they really do sound good(ish) when you get rid of that boost


I’m going to retune them using filters and see if we can reduce the ice pick. The last time I tuned this kind of driver (high ear gain, just enough bass), I have to make difficult balancing between decent bass and ice pick, so not much hope. But we will see.

The 150ohm driver can be quite good if the tuning is improved a bit. Still a bit hot and thin to me.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> I’m going to retune them using filters and see if we can reduce the ice pick. The last time I tuned this kind of driver (high ear gain, just enough bass), I have to make difficult balancing between decent bass and ice pick, so not much hope. But we will see.
> 
> The 150ohm driver can be quite good if the tuning is improved a bit. Still a bit hot and thin to me.


Filters as in your own design, or the dampers that you can buy from Smabat? If it is the latter, I have already yanked the damper totally off (which tames it the most), and while it did just a tad, it wasn't near enough to do anything very noticeable. There isn't a lot of "wiggle" room for these shells because of the design (which is part of the problem here IMO) and you would have to totally destroy the innards and/or driver to be able to create more room in the shell. And at point they will just be the M0... LOL


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> I’m going to retune them using filters and see if we can reduce the ice pick. The last time I tuned this kind of driver (high ear gain, just enough bass), I have to make difficult balancing between decent bass and ice pick, so not much hope. But we will see.
> 
> The 150ohm driver can be quite good if the tuning is improved a bit. Still a bit hot and thin to me.


I DID see that there is some venting in the drivers themselves, that I was planning on seeing if I can put some filtering in there.






As for me, I actually find the SO 100ohm bio driver the best of the 3 that I have listened to (150, 40, and 100).


----------



## o0genesis0o (Oct 6, 2022)

Let's have a look at the outstanding channel matching of M4 150ohm Dome drivers. That's what they manage to sound right and wrong at the same time. There goes the most decent drivers in the whole bunch 

Let's see what strange thing I'm going to discover next.


Channel imbalance? bingo we have another one: Super One





It should be noted that each channel has been measured multiple times to ensure consistency.


And ANOTHER ONE. This time the 40ohm "Big LCP" drivers.






Stock drivers





This is just embarrassing at this point. It should be noted here that my rig (IEC 711 clone) measure with excellent consistency from around 2k up. Only the height of the bass bump can shift around due to placement. All of the channel imbalance we are seeing here is from 1k up, which is quite noticeable.

Another observation is the absolute insane ear-gain. It's crazy.


Finally we have one decent pair of drivers ...





They are BA drivers from Bellsing.

Seriously, no matter the form factor, Smabat needs to have a sharp peak at 3k  


One last point.
In case you are curious, here are the measurements from my DIY based on the 64 ohm Ti composite drivers, modded with vents, filters, and double foamed. Not to toot my own horn, but to show you the level of channel matching from a random pair of drivers, butchered by an amateur (me)  

I don't understand why Smabat drivers are so imbalanced. Maybe due to the shell? The silicone o-rings? Bad filters? I don't know.






*Edit: I will reach out to Smabat when they return from public holiday. I don't think this kind of imbalance is normal. My unit might be defective on the right ear piece.*


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Let's have a look at the outstanding channel matching of M4 150ohm Dome drivers. That's what they manage to sound right and wrong at the same time. There goes the most decent drivers in the whole bunch
> 
> Let's see what strange thing I'm going to discover next.
> 
> ...


Just WOW! You don't even have to have good ears to hear that amount of imbalance (on any of them IMO)... Good thinking on measuring them! Though I have to say I don't hear that much of an imbalance on mine. That could be nulled by the amount of boost I am hearing anyhow (in other words, what's a little more, it is so bad now that it would simply get lost among the already problematic tuning). 

Just for giggles though, have you tried using the left in the right and vice versa? Because I notice that it is ALWAYS the right one that is way above the left in your readings. 

Either way, the amount of boost is ridiculous, and I can't believe that people actually listen and enjoy this with THAT much boost. I get it the Chinese (generally) like a boost to that region. Even that BA is boosted by about 10dB..... 

Fantastic job on YOUR tuning BTW! Amateur, my foot...  Just looking at the graph, I think I would enjoy listening to those quite a bit.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Oct 6, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Just WOW! You don't even have to have good ears to hear that amount of imbalance (on any of them IMO)... Good thinking on measuring them! Though I have to say I don't hear that much of an imbalance on mine. That could be nulled by the amount of boost I am hearing anyhow (in other words, what's a little more, it is so bad now that it would simply get lost among the already problematic tuning).
> 
> Just for giggles though, have you tried using the left in the right and vice versa? Because I notice that it is ALWAYS the right one that is way above the left in your readings.
> 
> ...



I just edited my post to say that there might be defect on my unit (M4 units). It's not the drivers that are troublesome. I have already swapped them, but they are the same. There might be problem with the ear pieces themselves. I think the right channel does not seal properly. Because the BA drivers do not rely on the bass tubes at the back, they are completely fine. All other drivers are impacted.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> I just edited my post to say that there might be defect on my unit. It's not the drivers that are troublesome. I have already swapped them, but they are the same. There might be problem with the ear pieces themselves. I think the right channel does not seal properly. Because the BA drivers do not rely on the bass tubes at the back, they are completely fine. All other drivers are impacted.


Wonder why your DIY buds are rock solid then?


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> Wonder why your DIY buds are rock solid then?



I was talking about defective M4 unit, not the coupler. (Edited my post for clarity).

When I remove filters, the L channel shows significant change, in line of what we usually see when removing filter at the back of bell-shaped earbuds to make the hole too big (matching the "filter 1" option showed by Smabat). The R channel does not show any noticeable change. It is either the same or a bit bassier rather than showing a dip at 1kHz. 

Another thing is that some drivers do not screw on smoothly like others. They might contribute to problematic tuning as well.

Anyhow, it's a mess. I was like "whatever, I'll write up a review and toss this in the drawer", and then I realised I paid for these   Will email Smabat next week and see how it goes.


----------



## FranQL (Oct 6, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Just WOW! You don't even have to have good ears to hear that amount of imbalance (on any of them IMO)... Good thinking on measuring them! Though I have to say I don't hear that much of an imbalance on mine. That could be nulled by the amount of boost I am hearing anyhow (in other words, what's a little more, it is so bad now that it would simply get lost among the already problematic tuning).
> 
> Just for giggles though, have you tried using the left in the right and vice versa? Because I notice that it is ALWAYS the right one that is way above the left in your readings.
> 
> ...




take a look at my post on what i discovered when tuning ST20, you'll be surprised why the right shell always sounds different from the left

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16870600


----------



## o0genesis0o

FranQL said:


> take a look at my post on what i discovered when tuning ST20, you'll be surprised why the right shell always sounds different from the left
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16870600


 
Can't find the face palm emoji, so I'll just laugh instead   

I don't quite understand what you mean by "the right driver placed inverted both in the shell and in the faceplate". Could you elaborate on that a bit?


----------



## FranQL (Oct 6, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Can't find the face palm emoji, so I'll just laugh instead
> 
> I don't quite understand what you mean by "the right driver placed inverted both in the shell and in the faceplate". Could you elaborate on that a bit?



think about it, if when threading the driver the position in which the driver is placed is the same for both shells, are there possibilities that the driver and the VC are in a different position on one side and on the other? if so, they have not taken into account the configuration as a mirror, that is, the sound will be different on the right and left side


----------



## o0genesis0o (Oct 6, 2022)

FranQL said:


> think about it, if when threading the driver the position in which the driver is placed is the same for both shells, are there possibilities that the driver and the VC are in a different position on one side and on the other? if so, they have not taken into account the configuration as a mirror, that is, the sound will be different on the right and left side







I see! So, do you think this is design flaw or carelessness in manufacturing process?

I'm thinking about how many pair of DIY buds I can build with the amount I spent on this M4 set  


Btw, all Smabat drivers next to the golden boy FF3 ( all use full foam)






Putting the nitty gritty measurement aside, I found the following tricks to have decent sound out of these (using Super One drivers now):

Ensure that the text on the drivers facing the same direction (up, similarly to the advertisement material). This might help a bit with the channel balance (based on the problem found by @FranQL). I'm kind of sick of measuring now, so I have not confirmed by measurement.
Remove the filter to push the bass up (trick from @samandhi). At least this would balance out the sound signature.
The question I ask myself is: why I need to listen to this one when I have FF3 in the drawer next to me


----------



## samandhi

FranQL said:


> think about it, if when threading the driver the position in which the driver is placed is the same for both shells, are there possibilities that the driver and the VC are in a different position on one side and on the other? if so, they have not taken into account the configuration as a mirror, that is, the sound will be different on the right and left side


So that would mean that one VC is actually facing towards the shell, not the ear?


----------



## FranQL (Oct 6, 2022)

Let's see how I explain it, two caps from two soda bottles, we make a mark on both, and thread. Is the mark on both in the same position? if so, imagine in M4.

But each shell is different, it has its own shape, in one part it has the MMCX connector and vents and in the rest it does not. because if both drivers are not in the same position, the shape of the shell itself will give a sound on one side and another on the other side, the resonance will be different, because the VC (voice coil) has to be in the same place in a shell and in another

this is what I detected in ST20, they assembled them and on one side the VC was up and the other down, if you look at the bud at the top there is a vent and below there is not.... a disaster, I had to extract the driver and place it correctly


----------



## samandhi

FranQL said:


> Let's see how I explain it, two caps from two soda bottles, we make a mark on both, and thread. Is the mark on both in the same position? if so, imagine in M4.


The question is, why are you holding on to that trash? Couldn't you find a trash can to throw those bottle caps away in?   

Good explanation though.


----------



## samandhi

On the one hand, Smabat has made something very clever and innovative, and very nice looking and overall functional... But on the other hand, unless you are immune to the effects, they are not a good listen. I think I would rather have ugly. 

Maybe I'll just take the cable and case and transfer to my M2s Pro?! haha


----------



## FranQL

samandhi said:


> The question is, why are you holding on to that trash? Couldn't you find a trash can to throw those bottle caps away in?
> 
> Good explanation though.



I needed to know why I couldn't adjust them, I removed the peak and they still didn't sound round, until I found out, after that I removed the driver and mounted it on an MX500


----------



## samandhi

FranQL said:


> I needed to know why I couldn't adjust them, I removed the peak and they still didn't sound round, until I found out, after that I removed the driver and mounted it on an MX500


I meant the bottle caps in your analogy Hermano, but I get it.....


----------



## samandhi

So, I think I have come up with something that will make the M4 at least listenable (without any EQ). 

I was thinking incorrectly earlier when I offered that I could put some filtering on the vent side of the drivers. That would actually make it worse. It won't add any more upper mids, but it WOULD attenuate the bass and therefore exacerbate the issue. 

In order to make this better, the internals of the shell and/or the driver cavity needs to be changed/gutted. I didn't want to ruin the ability to remain modular, so instead the filtering needs to take place on the ear side of the driver. Since treble energy is weaker than the bass energy, filtering should do the trick nicely. 

Note: I did all the testing with some really earsplitting music (even somewhat without upper mid boosts); namely Tracy Bonham - The Burdens Of Being Upright
I started with some cotton and just put it between my ear and the bud. WOW! This is some serious boost and cotton doesn't get it. Long story short, I used many different "filter" materials with no success.

Finally I stumbled upon a piece of felt (which dense enough that one cannot hold up to the sun and see through it well). I stuck this in between the buds and my ear, and while it is STILL boosted, I would call it no more than the FF3 are without foams. OK! Now we're getting somewhere. I took those out and put on some silicone tips, then used the same felt. This is a pretty powerful combination for sure. These could be (almost) considered bass cannons, and they are now warm, but still with enough clarity to not call them muddy; certainly not the (perceived) clarity they DID have though. 

I will need to do some surgery to the felt in order to put it in between the driver face and the silicone tip.... Standby! 


Spoiler


----------



## baskingshark

samandhi said:


> So, I think I have come up with something that will make the M4 at least listenable (without any EQ).
> 
> I was thinking incorrectly earlier when I offered that I could put some filtering on the vent side of the drivers. That would actually make it worse. It won't add any more upper mids, but it WOULD attenuate the bass and therefore exacerbate the issue.
> 
> ...



By any chance, have u tried double foaming (full foam) the M4?

I tried that on the "ice pick" Smabat ST20 Pro but it didn't help unfortunately.


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> By any chance, have u tried double foaming (full foam) the M4?
> 
> I tried that on the "ice pick" Smabat ST20 Pro but it didn't help unfortunately.


I have. I also tried the silicone tip, then the foam (bass one from FiiO & a Heigi also), then put on the ear hooks to bring them closer to my ear canals (hoping that the added bass would overcome the upper mids), and also changed to pure copper cable. While all of this DID have some small effect, it wasn't near enough to overcome the +10dB(ish) boost.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> I was talking about defective M4 unit, not the coupler. (Edited my post for clarity).
> 
> When I remove filters, the L channel shows significant change, in line of what we usually see when removing filter at the back of bell-shaped earbuds to make the hole too big (matching the "filter 1" option showed by Smabat). The R channel does not show any noticeable change. It is either the same or a bit bassier rather than showing a dip at 1kHz.
> 
> ...



If they won't replace the unit at cost, be sure to mention that you're a reviewer and you'll be posting a review of the M4s on head-fi and your own site so if they want that review to be of this unusable hunk of junk then your fine with that, but if they'd like the review to be of a pair of M4s that actually work then they'd better get to shipping one to you lol! 🤣

I'm actually surprised that using buds with that much imbalance didn't cause you headaches or even nausea. Maybe my ears are just really sensitive to it, but moderate channel imbalance will give me headaches very quickly and the one time I had an IEM with major imbalance it actually made me me feel kinda dizzy/disoriented and then made me puke. Funny thing is, I think the imbalance on your M4s is worse than what I had on those IEMs.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> If they won't replace the unit at cost, be sure to mention that you're a reviewer and you'll be posting a review of the M4s on head-fi and your own site so if they want that review to be of this unusable hunk of junk then your fine with that, but if they'd like the review to be of a pair of M4s that actually work then they'd better get to shipping one to you lol! 🤣
> 
> I'm actually surprised that using buds with that much imbalance didn't cause you headaches or even nausea. Maybe my ears are just really sensitive to it, but moderate channel imbalance will give me headaches very quickly and the one time I had an IEM with major imbalance it actually made me me feel kinda dizzy/disoriented and then made me puke. Funny thing is, I think the imbalance on your M4s is worse than what I had on those IEMs.


Yeah, it does seem pretty bad (and unacceptable at best). 

I am starting to see why they are giving pretty deep discounts on these... Though I am actually surprised that they didn't give you a set for free (as a reviewer) @o0genesis0o. 

Having said that, and with the felt mod in these (it ends up being silicone tip, felt, FiiO "bass" foam) they now actually sound pretty darned good to my ears.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

I forget who was asking me about the titanium driver version of the NSC Audio 80 LCPs I like so much, but I had some stuff I needed to order through AliExpress so I went ahead and picked up and pair. I'll be sure to let everyone know how they stack up to their pretty amazing LCP counterparts for sure.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Oct 6, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I'm actually surprised that using buds with that much imbalance didn't cause you headaches or even nausea. Maybe my ears are just really sensitive to it, but moderate channel imbalance will give me headaches very quickly and the one time I had an IEM with major imbalance it actually made me me feel kinda dizzy/disoriented and then made me puke. Funny thing is, I think the imbalance on your M4s is worse than what I had on those IEMs.



I found that imbalance on earbuds are a bit harder to detect because when I hear imbalance, I tend to try to refit the buds to change the lower midrange and bass response. These changes can somewhat cancel the imbalance in the upper midrange.

I think I get your point about dizziness of channel imbalance. I'm going to undo all of my mods and measure the S12 again. I noticed significant imbalance on the graph after my mod. I did not mind much, but one friend whom borrowed my S12 complained that it sounds "distorted" and "morphed".



samandhi said:


> I am starting to see why they are giving pretty deep discounts on these... Though I am actually surprised that they didn't give you a set for free (as a reviewer) @o0genesis0o.


I was given 50% off one time for the whole order, though another email came back after I placed the order (by staff?), saying that 50% off the main body and 30% off each driver. I think the founder (?) override the decision and I think I have 50% off total in the end (haven't really checked, my eyes were on the Megatron and VE Master  ).

Almost everything I rank or review are from my own fund or from a local hifi store that generously let me stay in their store for hours to measure and audition. Anyhow, for this Smabat case, it is probably for the best. I would not feel bad to give them a negative review. Though let's wait and see whether my unit is broken or M4 has design flaw / QC issues.

Btw, I wonder how the FF3 stock situation is at the local store now. Last time I went there, they were surprised that FF3 sold out. They thought no one would buy these flat head nowadays. I like to think that my constant shrill has something to do with that 


Edit: Today, I listen to VE Master 4.4 with Megatron. This combo is crazy loud on MacBook (16 inch, M1). What a breath of fresh air after the Smabat. I also bring the Smabat with me to see if the tricks that I mentioned yesterday make any different (aligning the drivers when screwing them in, removing all filters inside the ear pieces).

@JAnonymous5150 the Megatron is amazing. I finally get why people like Sennheiser HD560s. Before I use Megatron, HD560s sound harsh and thin. It sounds more balanced and enjoyable with Megatron. I still don't like HD560s, btw.


----------



## Ronion

I’m pretty sure all of their modular designs are flawed.  More SMABAT drivers have broke on me than all others combined barring some NOS bud driver that are 15+ years old.  Well actually still more SMABATs have died on me.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> @JAnonymous5150 the Megatron is amazing. I finally get why people like Sennheiser HD560s. Before I use Megatron, HD560s sound harsh and thin. It sounds more balanced and enjoyable with Megatron. I still don't like HD560s, btw.



I just love the Megatron. When I got it I was expecting it to be a novelty that worked in a couple situations while being useless for most things. However, it just has some great synergy with quite a few of my buds in particular so I have found myselfy using it a lot more often than I thought I would. It's also a solid match the the AKG x7xx headphones I have and has plenty of power to make to make it a handy and compact standalone unit.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I just love the Megatron. When I got it I was expecting it to be a novelty that worked in a couple situations while being useless for most things. However, it just has some great synergy with quite a few of my buds in particular so I have found myselfy using it a lot more often than I thought I would. It's also a solid match the the AKG x7xx headphones I have and has plenty of power to make to make it a handy and compact standalone unit.







My “new DAP” driving the VE Master 4.4.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> My “new DAP” driving the VE Master 4.4.


You just need a couple of bands (or even rubber bands) to hold them together to have a proper "stack"... LOL 



Spoiler: FiiO X5 > FiiO E17K (Alpen II)


----------



## XP_98 (Oct 7, 2022)

Hello
I need your enlightened advice 

The context :
I like to listen to my headphones, but sometimes IEM are more convenient.
But there always comes  a time when I can't stand the feeling of pressure in my ear canals.
Earbuds are more pleasant to wear, and this addictive hobby has taken me to buy what I considered being the very best : VE Sun copper and VE Zen SU (and Defiant).
I am very pleased with Zen SU, I hear a better resolution than Sun copper, but I also feel there is still less "fullness" in the sound compared to IEMs, and of course headphones.
I listen mainly to acoustic, vocal , classical music.

The questions :
I recently red very good feedback about Serratus / Alpha / Tantalus, being near the sound of headphones.
Could someone compare them with Zen SU ?
Apart from the different shell, can they complete or even surpass the Zen SU in sound quality, or will they still remain below, so useless to buy for my needs ?


----------



## prakasitp

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Your wish is my command. This is a pic I took last night while I still had them on a black cable to test with an SE source. I liked them so much I switched to a white modular cable so I can use them with any source until I have time to complete the handmade cable I'm going to braid for them which is planned to be a 2x2x2x2 with 4 strands of gold cable and 4 strands of black in alternating pairs likely in some kind of helix braid but I haven't fully decided on vraid type yet.
> 
> I call them the 150ohms to Freedom buds because the first song I heard on them was Sublime's 40oz to Freedom when I plugged them in after their first assembly before any revisions. It seemed cool at the time...lol!


Very good looking buds.


----------



## barato

So I picked up some Apple Earpods after reading they use biocellulose drivers and go pretty cheap, seemed like a good way to test waters with earbuds... 
They are a bit rough and grainy sounding overall, but punchy and dynamic with an organic, nicely textured midrange and also surprisingly good depth rendering and even seperation at times, seems like this is part of the more open quality of earbuds, really high fun factor... very different to IEMs.
Pretty damn good considering the price.

Now I'm really interested in hearing what the FF3 or FF5 is capable of.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Oct 7, 2022)

barato said:


> So I picked up some Apple Earpods after reading they use biocellulose drivers and go pretty cheap, seemed like a good way to test waters with earbuds...
> They are a bit rough and grainy sounding overall, but punchy and dynamic with an organic, nicely textured midrange and also surprisingly good depth rendering and even seperation at times, seems like this is part of the more open quality of earbuds, really high fun factor... very different to IEMs.
> Pretty damn good considering the price.
> 
> Now I'm really interested in hearing what the FF3 or FF5 is capable of.



Earpods definitely get a bad rep when it comes to the "audiophile" community, but they're not as bad as they're often made out to be. That said, they're also not as good as many apple fans would have you believe and something like the FF3 is leagues ahead of them, but I think it's also important to point out that there are quite a few earbuds that are priced the same or less that are also significantly better sounding than Earpods as well.

The FF3s are awesome and there are a lot of us on this thread that are waiting excitedly to see what Fiio comes up with for the FF5s.


----------



## jeejack

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Your wish is my command. This is a pic I took last night while I still had them on a black cable to test with an SE source. I liked them so much I switched to a white modular cable so I can use them with any source until I have time to complete the handmade cable I'm going to braid for them which is planned to be a 2x2x2x2 with 4 strands of gold cable and 4 strands of black in alternating pairs likely in some kind of helix braid but I haven't fully decided on vraid type yet.
> 
> I call them the 150ohms to Freedom buds because the first song I heard on them was Sublime's 40oz to Freedom when I plugged them in after their first assembly before any revisions. It seemed cool at the time...lol!


My turn. @o0genesis0o you are next


----------



## JAnonymous5150

jeejack said:


> My turn. @o0genesis0o you are next



Very nice! I like the color combo too.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Thanks to @qua2k I have a pair of Inorvin Labs Hanna buds waiting for me to give them a try when I get home in a bit. I wish every day could be new earbud day!


----------



## Ronion

FWIW, I’m taking the Tingo TG38 off of my recommended Cheap buds list.  They have changed the driver much like the TC200 did some time ago.  I don’t know what these newer drivers are like but I haven’t heard any favorable reports so…. There’s that.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> FWIW, I’m taking the Tingo TG38 off of my recommended Cheap buds list.  They have changed the driver much like the TC200 did some time ago.  I don’t know what these newer drivers are like but I haven’t heard any favorable reports so…. There’s that.



Where is this list? Or are you talking about a figurative/hypothetical list?

Re the Inorvin Labs Hanna: I just got home to give these buds a whirl and so far they are quite good. Maybe I'll do a little write-up in the coming days when I have the time, but I'm currently listening to The Sea Within's self-titled album and it sounds great on these earbuds. Rich, full, and engaging.

For those of you who have enjoyed some of my past music recommendations, check this one out. As I mentioned above it's a self-titled album from 2018 by a band called The Sea Within.


----------



## jeejack

jeejack said:


> My turn. @o0genesis0o you are next


I forgot to say that this build cost me $12, my bad 🍻


----------



## JAnonymous5150

For anyone interested in the Fiio FF5s, I asked their customer support if they had any idea when the FF5s were expected to be realeased since they didn't make the September date they were originally shooting for. Well, I got an answer back from them in my email and customer service says they were told that mid November is the probable window for release of the FF5. They weren't able to give me an answer on why the release has been pushed back.

Just thought I would share for anyone interested.


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Where is this list? Or are you talking about a figurative/hypothetical list?
> 
> Re the Inorvin Labs Hanna: I just got home to give these buds a whirl and so far they are quite good. Maybe I'll do a little write-up in the coming days when I have the time, but I'm currently listening to The Sea Within's self-titled album and it sounds great on these earbuds. Rich, full, and engaging.
> 
> For those of you who have enjoyed some of my past music recommendations, check this one out. As I mentioned above it's a self-titled album from 2018 by a band called The Sea Within.


Just a figurative list.  I would still have the HE150 on this list.  Hopefully, they keep it that way and not downgrade it like Tingo has done.  That said, I never use my HE150 anymore.


----------



## syazwaned

JAnonymous5150 said:


> For anyone interested in the Fiio FF5s, I asked their customer support if they had any idea when the FF5s were expected to be realeased since they didn't make the September date they were originally shooting for. Well, I got an answer back from them in my email and customer service says they were told that mid November is the probable window for release of the FF5. They weren't able to give me an answer on why the release has been pushed back.
> 
> Just thought I would share for anyone interested.


It there going to be a sonic upgrade for FF5 from FF3? They only going to change the shell material and mmcx connector right?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

syazwaned said:


> It there going to be a sonic upgrade for FF5 from FF3? They only going to change the shell material and mmcx connector right?



I'll ask. I have seen James the CEO of Fiio confirm elsewhere that the FF5 will have MMCX connectors, but I haven't seen or heard anything confirmed about the construction or tuning.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> Just a figurative list.  I would still have the HE150 on this list.  Hopefully, they keep it that way and not downgrade it like Tingo has done.  That said, I never use my HE150 anymore.



Not using your HE150 anymore? That's sad. Can I ask why?

I love rotating through different buds and hearing music through other people's perspectives.


----------



## MOONDROP

Stuff Jones said:


> @MOONDROP - Do you have any comment on this? Has the material of the Chaconne been changed? (sent a PM and email but have not heard back).


I don't think they are changed, yet my demo unit haven't been getting this problem, let me check...


----------



## TimUK (Oct 8, 2022)

I have just got some EM5's and I really like them. I'm looking forward to trying the FF5's when they are out! 

I grew up using earbuds, so they have a nostalgic place in my heart and just feel right in my ears.


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Not using your HE150 anymore? That's sad. Can I ask why?
> 
> I love rotating through different buds and hearing music through other people's perspectives.


The 500 and 600 Ohm drivers are just so good.  They do everything exceedingly well barring electronic music.  The FiiO can handle that.  The 600 are so easy to tune well that it’s hard for me to imagine why they aren’t more common in the wild.   If all you have is $20, the HE150 are great.  They have a lot of bass (too much really but I always prefer too much over too little) and a great soundstage.  I’m sure there are several others but those are the best buds I’ve heard for that money.  I mean you can do some very good DIY buds for that money like the 130Be or one of the LCP, but if your afraid to DIY or don’t have access to a soldering iron, they are a good way to spend a little money and get a great bud.  You can EQ them into something really special.

I am definitely hoping the FF5 is not just an FF3 with an MMCX.  It’s not a total fail if that’s what it is, but there is room from improvement.  Not too much from a tuning perspective, but from a treble extension and (I know people won’t believe me) a soundstage and resolution department.  They have a great soundstage and resolution, but since better exists, they could be better.  . FiiO has the R&D department to do it.


----------



## Setmagic

Ronion said:


> (...) FiiO has the R&D department to do it.


We have as well


----------



## Setmagic

Ronion said:


> The 600 are so easy to tune well that it’s hard for me to imagine why they aren’t more common in the wild.


Bad price/performance ratio.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Oct 8, 2022)

jeejack said:


> My turn. @o0genesis0o you are next



Beautiful cable! Is that DIY as well? The splitter and chin slider look like those expensive cables from EA. The earpieces look simple at a glance, but upon closer inspection, they look like some kind of marble. Digging this!

I'm still deciding what drivers to buy, so no new set set for a while. Please enjoy some photos of old stuffs, given new life by VE Megatron









Edit: graph of both sets against the golden boy FF3



Today, I enjoy VE Master 4.4 with my "new DAP" (Xiaomi M1 A1 + VE Megatron). Ready for a controversial / hype inducing statement? The whole combo sounds as enjoyable as the HD800(S?) I auditioned yesterday.


----------



## waynes world (Oct 9, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Where is this list? Or are you talking about a figurative/hypothetical list?
> 
> Re the Inorvin Labs Hanna: I just got home to give these buds a whirl and so far they are quite good. Maybe I'll do a little write-up in the coming days when I have the time, but I'm currently listening to The Sea Within's self-titled album and it sounds great on these earbuds. Rich, full, and engaging.
> 
> For those of you who have enjoyed some of my past music recommendations, check this one out. As I mentioned above it's a self-titled album from 2018 by a band called The Sea Within.



Just finished the 1st track. Reminds me of Hogarth/Rothery/Marillion. Awesome so far!

Edit: LOL - no wonder they are awesome... "The Sea Within are an international rock supergroup founded in 2017, formed by Swedish guitarist and singer-songwriter Roine Stolt, bassist Jonas Reingold and guitarist Daniel Gildenlöw, German drummer Marco Minnemann, and American keyboardist Tom Brislin."


----------



## mt877

Smabat released this new (corrected) tuning damper information and recommendation chart for driver and tuning damper selection.

The factory default tuning damper is Type 2.5, while the tuning damper kit comes with Types 1, 2 and 3. I guess this means if you have all the different drivers you'll need a minimum of 3 separate M4 bodies with the different dampers installed for 'best ' tuning.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

waynes world said:


> Just finished the 1st track. Reminds me of Hogarth/Rothery/Marillion. Awesome so far!
> 
> Edit: LOL - no wonder they are awesome... "The Sea Within are an international rock supergroup founded in 2017, formed by Swedish guitarist and singer-songwriter Roine Stolt, bassist Jonas Reingold and guitarist Daniel Gildenlöw, German drummer Marco Minnemann, and American keyboardist Tom Brislin."



As I read this I was preparing to post just who was involved in this group...and then I saw your edit lol! 😂

In the prog/neo-prog/prog-metal world(s) it's crazy how many "supergroups" there are out there that you never hear about until you dig in. They drop and album or two and the members get busy with other/primary projects and they disappear.

I first came across The Sea Within not knowing who was involved or having heard anything about them. I was hours deep into exploring on Qobuz during a listening sesh and I'm still not even sure how I ended up on the album exactly, but I listened to a few tracks and was amazed that only one album was up so I Googled them and it began to make sense.

I REALLY hope more comes out from this group in the future. I read a couple articles about them apparently doing some studio work post-Covid restrictions so fingers crossed!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> Smabat released this new (corrected) tuning damper information and recommendation chart for driver and tuning damper selection.
> 
> The factory default tuning damper is Type 2.5, while the tuning damper kit comes with Types 1, 2 and 3. I guess this means if you have all the different drivers you'll need a minimum of 3 separate M4 bodies with the different dampers installed for 'best ' tuning.




Good find, bro! Thanks for updating us here.


----------



## Ronion

Setmagic said:


> Bad price/performance ratio.


for under $50 you can build a bud better than any $500 headphone I’ve heard and you can carry it in your pocket.  Seems pretty good price to performance to me.


----------



## Setmagic

Ronion said:


> for under $50 you can build a bud better than any $500 headphone I’ve heard and you can carry it in your pocket.  Seems pretty good price to performance to me.


I have only 500 berry   
There is also some expensive orthodynamic driver for ~200$
Unfortunately I lost link for it.


----------



## jeejack

o0genesis0o said:


> Beautiful cable! Is that DIY as well? The splitter and chin slider look like those expensive cables from EA. The earpieces look simple at a glance, but upon closer inspection, they look like some kind of marble. Digging this!
> 
> I'm still deciding what drivers to buy, so no new set set for a while. Please enjoy some photos of old stuffs, given new life by VE Megatron
> 
> ...


Everything is DIY 🍻


----------



## Ronion

Setmagic said:


> I have only 500 berry
> There is also some expensive orthodynamic driver for ~200$
> Unfortunately I lost link for it.


500 in the right tuning is just as good as the 600.  In fact, I haven’t heard anything better than the 500 at this time.  Put both in a regular, unmodified MX shell and I’d say the 600 is better.


----------



## XP_98 (Oct 9, 2022)

XP_98 said:


> Hello
> I need your enlightened advice
> 
> The context :
> ...


No one could compare ?


----------



## Ronion

XP_98 said:


> Noone could compare ?


Unfortunately probably not.  Those are all expensive for someone to have heard them all.  They all have a good reputation and I know the ones from TGX use good drivers: the TOTLs that I was just speaking of that you can build for under $50 that sound better than any headphone I’ve heard.  Of course I’ve only heard headphones up to $500.   Well, you could get the whole set up for less than $40 if you are careful where you buy from on AE.  There are also a couple prefab buds on AE for cheaper, but the tuning will be different.  I find the driver to be the most important part provided the tuning is reasonable.  Who knows if their tuning on AE is reasonable.  Easy to fix if they’re not..

Prefab 1

These can be pretty creative:

Prefab 2

Best of luck.  Sorry for the lack of replies.  There’s possibly no one who has heard them all.


----------



## syazwaned

XP_98 said:


> No one could compare ?


maybe Yinman 2.0 600 ohms


----------



## syazwaned

XP_98 said:


> No one could compare ?


for classical music I think serratus is better


----------



## XP_98

Surely Yinman 600 ohms and Serratus are top earbuds, but are they better, or at least as good with a different sound flavor, than Top-tier I already have ( VE Sun copper, and especially VE Zen SU) ?
My question was indeed directed at the happy few forum members who have heard virtually every high-end Earbuds


----------



## ian91

XP_98 said:


> Surely Yinman 600 ohms and Serratus are top earbuds, but are they better, or at least as good with a different sound flavor, than Top-tier I already have ( VE Sun copper, and especially VE Zen SU) ?
> My question was indeed directed at the happy few forum members who have heard virtually every high-end Earbuds



Hey, am I right in thinking you had the Romi BX-2 plus amp at some point? How did you find it with your high impedance earbuds? I'm still on the hunt for a portable powerhouse...


----------



## syazwaned

XP_98 said:


> Surely Yinman 600 ohms and Serratus are top earbuds, but are they better, or at least as good with a different sound flavor, than Top-tier I already have ( VE Sun copper, and especially VE Zen SU) ?
> My question was indeed directed at the happy few forum members who have heard virtually every high-end Earbuds


the only person I know that has both is Woody...he is more active here https://discord.gg/3jJQxV42


----------



## barato

@Ronion Are you saying you prefer 600 to FF3 for most things?

My desktop gear is tailored to high impedance headphones, so 600ohm would be win-win.

This was best price found for 600 drivers, assuming they are the same:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...00009778135373!sea&curPageLogUid=yKiby2wo7fYy


----------



## XP_98

No, I don't have BX-2 ; for my most demanding earbuds, I have Ifi DIABLO and VE DEFIANT, both sound very good with VE Zen SU


----------



## syazwaned

ian91 said:


> Hey, am I right in thinking you had the Romi BX-2 plus amp at some point? How did you find it with your high impedance earbuds? I'm still on the hunt for a portable powerhouse...


Have Centrance Ampersand or Kaei Tap1s came across your search?


----------



## o0genesis0o

So I have been listening to the gorgeous combo of VE Megatron and Fiio FF3 when I caught myself browsing sources and earbuds to see if I can find anything better. Suddenly I feel like this:




Maybe that’s the curse of this “hobby”? Chasing the next jump in sound quality. 

With that being said, I am quite curious about more powerful portable DAC/AMP


----------



## ian91

syazwaned said:


> Have Centrance Ampersand or Kaei Tap1s came across your search?



Both have and I haven't ruled them out...! What's your amp of choice at the moment?


----------



## syazwaned

ian91 said:


> Both have and I haven't ruled them out...! What's your amp of choice at the moment?


I am using Topping nx7, good enough yinman 600 that I wouldn't need to carry around my zen can just to power the Yinman 600. Not sure about serratus though.


----------



## baskingshark

o0genesis0o said:


> Maybe that’s the curse of this “hobby”? Chasing the next jump in sound quality.



There's good news and bad news about chasing the dragon and upgradiitis.

*Good news* - midFI is where the best price-performance ratio is, and you probably already own these midFI gear. Paying 10x more for TOTL gear maybe gives 20% improvement  - ie mega diminishing returns abound.

*Bad news* - once you have heard something nice and obtained audio nirvana, you cannot unhear that hahaha.


----------



## ttorbic

o0genesis0o said:


> So I have been listening to the gorgeous combo of VE Megatron and Fiio FF3 when I caught myself browsing sources and earbuds to see if I can find anything better. Suddenly I feel like this:
> 
> 
> Maybe that’s the curse of this “hobby”? Chasing the next jump in sound quality.
> ...


Have you heard of XDUOO XD-05 Bal? That's a portable powerhouse lol


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Good find, bro! Thanks for updating us here.


Definitely. It's been a hell of a week (not looking for sympathy...) between an uncle passing away, long work hours and then the F'in hot water heater dying, really no time to relax. Well at least I was able to get some FF3 time while replacing the hot water heater.


----------



## Ronion (Oct 9, 2022)

barato said:


> @Ronion Are you saying you prefer 600 to FF3 for most things?
> 
> My desktop gear is tailored to high impedance headphones, so 600ohm would be win-win.
> 
> ...


Actually I was just doing this comparison at home last night night.  I didn’t do a direct comparison with the 600, just the 500 and much to my surprise I easily preferred the 500 on everything.  This is even with just a 1V output.  In fact I preferred it over the 600 on everything later in the night.  I do have my 500 in a custom shell/tuning however and it makes a big difference.  It’s really shocking how good these drivers are.  With that said, the FF3 is still impressive.  I’d say it’s the best low impedance driver I’ve heard and I easily preferred to most other DIY builds.  I put it roughly on the level of the 130Be with each having their own strong suits.  Keep in mind that you can build the 130 for less than $20.

Oh sorry, the link doesn’t work for me.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> Definitely. It's been a hell of a week (not looking for sympathy...) between an uncle passing away, long work hours and then the F'in hot water heater dying, really no time to relax. Well at least I was able to get some FF3 time while replacing the hot water heater.



You not looking for sympathy doesn't make me any less sorry to hear any of that. I have dealt with all of those in the fairly recent past myself and it sucks. At least dominating that hot water heater and doing some good work with your hands will help set the other feelings aside for a bit. Well, if you're anything like me it will,  but that's a big if...😉


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> You not looking for sympathy doesn't make me any less sorry to hear any of that. I have dealt with all of those in the fairly recent past myself and it sucks. At least dominating that hot water heater and doing some good work with your hands will help set the other feelings aside for a bit. Well, if you're anything like me it will,  but that's a big if...😉


Thanks for the kind words. I could get by with taking cold showers or heating big pots of water on the stove for a couple days to get by, but no cold showers for my wife. That water heater needed to be replaced ASAP!


----------



## Ronion (Oct 9, 2022)

Cold showers are really good for the immune system… See if she falls for that 😆

Maybe this will brighten your day:


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Oct 9, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Cold showers are really good for the immune system… See if she falls for that 😆
> 
> Maybe this will brighten your day:



I didn't know you did the minidisc thing too! I made my first mixed disc last night and brought my player and my buds with me today. I'm pretty stoked since I haven't listened to a true mixed tape-like medium in a very long time. I used to LOVE making mixed tapes and swapping them with friends back in the day. Good times!

P.S. Which model is that?

Edit: Nevermind, I see the model. Duh! How do you like it? Does yours stilk have full battery, a working screen, and all that jazz?


----------



## Ronion

It’s the MZ-N910.  Still works perfectly.  It was their second best model when I bought it.  I used to record every concert I went to with it.  I’m glad this thing still works like new, but it’s time to transfer these recordings onto a hard drive.  My FiiO e12MB is now dead and it’s about a decade newer.  The build quality of these old units is impressive.  Same goes for old Walkman tape decks.  It’s not hard to understand why Sony has such a good reputation.   The FiiO has been on life support a few times and just keeled over a few days back.  The expense of repairing it is unlikely worth it


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> It’s the MZ-N910.  Still works perfectly.  It was their second best model when I bought it.  I used to record every concert I went to with it.  I’m glad this thing still works like new, but it’s time to transfer these recordings onto a hard drive.  My FiiO e12MB is now dead and it’s about a decade newer.  The build quality of these old units is impressive.  Same goes for old Walkman tape decks.  It’s not hard to understand why Sony has such a good reputation.   The FiiO has been on life support a few times and just keeled over a few days back.  The expense of repairing it is unlikely worth it



Sorry to hear about your e12. I hate it when good gear gives up the ghost.

I purchased a Sony MZ-E900 minidisc player that looks and functions like new and I'm pretty impressed with the build quality, too. I've always wished I was a bigger fan of Sony's tunings in heasphones and IEMs because of their impressive build quality and quality control.


----------



## mt877 (Oct 9, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Cold showers are really good for the immune system… See if she falls for that 😆
> 
> Maybe this will brighten your day:


She's an RN, so I think she knows something about taking cold showers boosting immunity to some illness. She would go the other way and take a nice soaking warm / hot bath to boost immunity.



Ronion said:


> Maybe this will brighten your day:


It did, thanks, Bro!

A little something to go with the Sony MD player...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> She's an RN, so I think she knows something about taking cold showers boosting immunity to some illness. She would go the other way and take a nice soaking warm / hot bath to boost immunity.
> 
> A little something to go with the Sony MD player...



Which buds are those? I'm not very familiar with Sony's model lineup.


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Which buds are those? I'm not very familiar with Sony's model lineup.


MDR-E515 "Twin Turbo" fontopia(?) Mega-Bass buds. They have a J instead of a Y split. I guess that was more in fashion back when they were released. I can't even remember when I got these or if they came with a Sony portable CD or cassette tape player.

Found this retail package picture on ebay.


----------



## GREQ

After many months meditating under a waterfall, with only the vibrations of the universe to sustain me, I embarked on a journey of discovery, revelations and new truth.

Today I finally bring to you the best method of measuring flathead earbuds!!!.........
ok... not exactly the best method...
ok... not to everyone...
ok... only to people with miniDSP EARS measuring rigs.
BUT I think some of you will like it 

It's amazing how far a simple piece of medium density foam will go.
I burned a hole in the middle with a soldering iron, and snipped tiny cuts around the circle and bam! that's it.









Measurement results are INCREDIBLY consistent now.
They also look much much more relatable to other existing graphs and databases.
Of course, the same rules apply - my graphs ONLY make sense when compared against my other graphs... yada yada yada....

Here's the new list so far
*https://itsgreq.gitbook.io/headphone-measurements/earbud-graphs-with-modified-minidsp-ears*

And a taste of how much better this new jig is, in comparison to the old stock silicone ears:

*Measured with stock miniDSP EARS* (Silicone... wooo!! rollercoaster-that-makes-no-sense!!)



*Measured with foam jig* - ah yes... a graph


----------



## mt877

GREQ said:


> After many months meditating under a waterfall, with only the vibrations of the universe to sustain me, I embarked on a journey of discovery, revelations and new truth.
> 
> Today I finally bring to you the best method of measuring flathead earbuds!!!.........
> ok... not exactly the best method...
> ...


I am by far *NOT* an expert at measuring flat head earbuds. I am trying to piece together my own rig to see how my small collection of DIY buds graph. I do get consistent results, but the FR graphs do not truly reflect how the buds sound. I looked at your database and all your earbud graphs with the medium density foam have a dip at 4KHz. I don't know what that means, I just think something is not right. Maybe the resident experts can pinpoint the problem?

It would be excellent if we (collectively) could have a standard measuring rig and measuring setup / test procedure where most of our individual measurements would match or be close enough to be useful. Then we could confidently share graphs knowing that the measurements are meaningful and would closely relate to how earbuds actually sound.


----------



## GREQ

mt877 said:


> I am by far *NOT* an expert at measuring flat head earbuds. I am trying to piece together my own rig to see how my small collection of DIY buds graph. I do get consistent results, but the FR graphs do not truly reflect how the buds sound. I looked at your database and all your earbud graphs with the medium density foam have a dip at 4KHz. I don't know what that means, I just think something is not right. Maybe the resident experts can pinpoint the problem?


If you take a look at some of my other graphs, especially closed-back headphones, you will notice that the 'infamous 4hKz dip' is actually a bit of a well known meme in the measuring-community.

Pretty much every single miniDSP EARS rig has this known issue, and it make it's presence known at varying levels depending on the headphone type - BUT it's very inconsistent.
For example, some 4kHz dips are true, while others are false; meaning, some of them are only EARS generated artefacts and cannot be heard when performing manual frequency sweeps, and others are somewhat closer to a real representation of a headphone's response OR even extremely exaggerated versions.

TLDR:
The main thing to note is that miniDSP EARS all have a 4kHz problem, and unreliable treble accuracy.
- The rest is pretty good though!  



mt877 said:


> It would be excellent if we (collectively) could have a standard measuring rig and measuring setup / test procedure where most of our individual measurements would match or be close enough to be useful. Then we could confidently share graphs knowing that the measurements are meaningful and would closely relate to how earbuds actually sound.


100% agree.
I'm sure someone can figure out a DIY rig that costs less than $20 and is childs-play to accurately replicate.
I'd probably be all-in for that.


----------



## qua2k

My @tgx78 Alpha's were missed in transit yesterday due to being out and going on a hike/waterfall excursion. Monday being a holiday, Tuesday it is as they sit trapped in a federally locked building for 2 days more.


----------



## tgx78

qua2k said:


> My @tgx78 Alpha's were missed in transit yesterday due to being out and going on a hike/waterfall excursion. Monday being a holiday, Tuesday it is as they sit trapped in a federally locked building for 2 days more.






Multnomah Falls? I should head down to Oregon coast soon. Miss it so much.


----------



## qua2k (Oct 9, 2022)

tgx78 said:


> Multnomah Falls? I should head down to Oregon coast soon. Miss it so much.



Wahclella Falls,





We don't like Multnomah Falls due to the people


----------



## Ronion

qua2k said:


> My @tgx78 Alpha's were missed in transit yesterday due to being out and going on a hike/waterfall excursion. Monday being a holiday, Tuesday it is as they sit trapped in a federally locked building for 2 days more.


The waiting is the hardest part but absence make the heart grow fonder…. right?  It’s an opportunity to practice patience someone once said.   Just kidding!  Tuesday’s coming.  Sorry you missed them as I think we all know that feeling.


----------



## Ronion

GREQ said:


> After many months meditating under a waterfall, with only the vibrations of the universe to sustain me, I embarked on a journey of discovery, revelations and new truth.
> 
> Today I finally bring to you the best method of measuring flathead earbuds!!!.........
> ok... not exactly the best method...
> ...


Is there any compensation or calibration Applied to the Measurements?


----------



## ian91 (Oct 9, 2022)

If anyone is looking into TGXEar flagship line, I've published my review of the Alpha here. I hope it gives some flavour of what this set offers. It's one that's very hard to criticise, especially if you're into jazz or classical music. There's a brief Serratus comparison at the bottom that I hope people find useful.


----------



## Ronion

That’s a great review!  You hear similar things to what I hear in the driver and you can see that TGX has put a lot of time into tuning it.  I have no doubt that you found a TOTL bud there.  In all honesty, I think it’s the best overall sound I’ve heard for under $500 (haven’t heard this specific tuning) and I don’t necessarily equate cost with sound quality.


----------



## mt877

GREQ said:


> If you take a look at some of my other graphs, especially closed-back headphones, you will notice that the 'infamous 4hKz dip' is actually a bit of a well known meme in the measuring-community.
> 
> Pretty much every single miniDSP EARS rig has this known issue, and it make it's presence known at varying levels depending on the headphone type - BUT it's very inconsistent.
> For example, some 4kHz dips are true, while others are false; meaning, some of them are only EARS generated artefacts and cannot be heard when performing manual frequency sweeps, and others are somewhat closer to a real representation of a headphone's response OR even extremely exaggerated versions.
> ...


Thanks for your explanation. I wasn't aware the miniDSP EARS had such a 'feature'. I have a miniDSP HA-DSP (discontiued now) which I like very much. Of course miniDSP recommends their EARS to measure your headphones and AutoEQ to generate PEQ to configure into the HA-DSP. I figured I wouldn't buy the EARS because AutoEQ already has a vast database of measurements and PEQ for headphones. I can see that that 4k dip can be very problematic because it can be hard to determine if the head gear you're measuring truly has a 4k dip or if it's caused by the EARS.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> That’s a great review!  You hear similar things to what I hear in the driver and you can see that TGX has put a lot of time into tuning it.  I have no doubt that you found a TOTL bud there.  In all honesty, I think it’s the best overall sound I’ve heard for under $500 (haven’t heard this specific tuning) and I don’t necessarily equate cost with sound quality.


I just realised that TGXears is a company now. Hopefully we will see the guy at CanJam one day, though it would be a nightmare environment for auditioning earbuds, unless TGX somehow manages to drag a sound proof booth there.

Btw, Ian mentions 500ohm Be and 600ohm Be drivers. The same ones you have been talking about, I presume? 




mt877 said:


> I am by far *NOT* an expert at measuring flat head earbuds. I am trying to piece together my own rig to see how my small collection of DIY buds graph. I do get consistent results, but the FR graphs do not truly reflect how the buds sound. I looked at your database and all your earbud graphs with the medium density foam have a dip at 4KHz. I don't know what that means, I just think something is not right. Maybe the resident experts can pinpoint the problem?
> 
> It would be excellent if we (collectively) could have a standard measuring rig and measuring setup / test procedure where most of our individual measurements would match or be close enough to be useful. Then we could confidently share graphs knowing that the measurements are meaningful and would closely relate to how earbuds actually sound.


IEC 711? Very consistent from 2k up, varying from 2k down depending on the seal between buds and canal. If I seal the buds very tight against the canal, I can mimic the Smabat measurements )


Speaking of Smabat, I have reached out to them about the channel imbalance. Let's see how they respond. Hopefully it is unit defect rather than design flaw like @FranQL mentioned. 

@mt877 if I remember correctly, you are the one with a lot of M4 stuffs. Is any of your drivers hard to screw in? I found that one side is always harder to screw in than the other side with my set. That might the the cause of the channel imbalance and lack of response to tuning on one side.


----------



## mt877

o0genesis0o said:


> IEC 711? Very consistent from 2k up, varying from 2k down depending on the seal between buds and canal. If I seal the buds very tight against the canal, I can mimic the Smabat measurements )
> 
> 
> Speaking of Smabat, I have reached out to them about the channel imbalance. Let's see how they respond. Hopefully it is unit defect rather than design flaw like @FranQL mentioned.
> ...


I'll definitely look into the generic IEC 711, it really depends on how deep I want to get into doing measurements. For the few DIY buds I'm making tuning by ear is working ok. The other thing is, is that (to me) the only known good manufacturer supplied earbud FR graph I know of is the FiiO FF3 graph. So if I can consistently measure my FF3 and come up with a compensation curve that would correct for my microphone and measuring setup then that may be a way to go as well(?).

I'm not having any issue with screwing on any of the Smabat drivers on either L/R sides. I did notice that there is a build up of aluminum dust around the threads of the M4 bases. You might notice the same. Take a cotton swab or tissue and wipe the threads down. The swab or tissue will pick up some black / grey aluminum dust. After you clean that stuff off it should be easier to screw on the drivers. The drivers may also have some fine aluminum dust as well. One other thing is to carefully look at the threads and see if there are any burrs left over from manufacturing or if the threads got cross threaded. Cross threading is one of the worst culprits for nut and bolt type fasteners and the only way to fix them is to re-cut the threads with a tap (for female thread) or a die (for male thread).


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Btw, Ian mentions 500ohm Be and 600ohm Be drivers. The same ones you have been talking about, I presume?


They are the same drivers.  I just put the 600 in new shells to go along with my 500.  All I can say is that I've never heard anything like it and they are as comfortable as PK shells.  Easily my best transducer.  It's embarrassing.  I really think I need a Megatron now unfortunately.  It's the modern day stack or perhaps the stack for metamodern times and random wonders!  These guys do sing to the next level with more power.  The Hidizs S8 may be what I stick to for its size and just its "Holy Moly" sound quality with these.  It's hard to believe that something like this can cost under $130: DAC/Amp and buds and fit in your pocket.  It could cost even less now with the Megatron which might actually be better SQ.  I feel for the people that don't DIY, but those cheap options are AE would be mighty tempting if I didn't or couldn't.  The soundstage is so deep, the bass is tight and clean, the timbre is natural, separation is supreme, composure is effortless, and it's very hard to fault barring deep bass.  It still handles a lot of that well.  Tuning to a target is like teaching to a test: the most sure way to get good results.  Formulating a target on gear that you didn't make could be challenging however......


----------



## barato (Oct 9, 2022)

Most drivers on ali are pictured with front shell cover over the diaphragm. Can the driver be removed from these or are they glued in?

It's strange to me that the MX500 type shell is so restrictive with only a few small holes around the outside of the front cover, 
It would be nice to be able  to see what a more open shell sounds like.

Looks like some do give option for metal mesh cover that looks more open, any guideline on which is better?


----------



## Ronion

barato said:


> Most drivers on ali are pictured with front shell cover over the diaphragm. Can the driver be removed from these or are they glued in?
> 
> It's strange to me that the MX500 type shell is so restrictive with only a few small holes around the outside of the front cover,
> It would be nice to be able  to see what a more open shell sounds like.
> ...


The regular cover generally sounds better.  There are others as well, but there’s a reason the standard is the standard.  Any aberrations can be tuned out though with things like medical tape and foam cover densities.  You can remove the covers and change them but it’s exceedingly easy to kill a driver that way.


----------



## o0genesis0o

barato said:


> Most drivers on ali are pictured with front shell cover over the diaphragm. Can the driver be removed from these or are they glued in?
> 
> It's strange to me that the MX500 type shell is so restrictive with only a few small holes around the outside of the front cover,
> It would be nice to be able  to see what a more open shell sounds like.
> ...



There is a tutorial on tuning MX500 earbuds with the front cover on YouTube. It seems that the front cover is snapped on, but very hard to remove so you need to use a side cutter to break the front cover entirely. After that, you can drill holes on a spare front cover before reinstalling to change the high frequency response. I haven't tried this approach myself because I don't have any spare front cover at the moment.


----------



## barato

Ok, I will try 300 ohm LCP from NSC Audio Store in a standard MX shell... they seem to have best price/impedance ratio.


----------



## barato (Oct 10, 2022)

If you did add a hole you could filter or block it again with foam/tape, maybe good to have another bit tuning control?
If it's anything like speaker driver the highest frequencies will focused be around the dome, so could help with treble extension to have hole there, but this is just complete guess.

I could see if driver can be supplied without cover.


----------



## Ronion (Oct 10, 2022)

An earbud driver is smaller than most tweeters.  Earbuds are basically too small to have this problem to any major degree. The easiest Way to tune the treble is with a different foam cover.  There are of course other things you can do, but that’s where to start as far as I’m concerned.  It’s not just “make things as simple as possible….”, it’s probably best to keep things as simple as possible to start. Then if that doesn’t work, look into other possibilities.  I’ve literally only needed other options a couple time. All drivers need the right foams for them.  You need foams to have bass anyway.


----------



## ian91

Ronion said:


> That’s a great review!  You hear similar things to what I hear in the driver and you can see that TGX has put a lot of time into tuning it.  I have no doubt that you found a TOTL bud there.  In all honesty, I think it’s the best overall sound I’ve heard for under $500 (haven’t heard this specific tuning) and I don’t necessarily equate cost with sound quality.



Thank you, your kind words mean a lot! Definitely a set that makes you shake your head, and for two reasons: that a driver this small can produce depth and imaging as strong as this and that you're paying a fraction of the cost of flagship IEM that are typically seen as the last word in sound quality for a small form factor. Ofcourse, if you have the ability to DIY this yourself then it's even cheaper (I have little time or energy to invest in DIY at the moment, unfortunately). Earbuds disrupting the market!


----------



## GREQ

mt877 said:


> Thanks for your explanation. I wasn't aware the miniDSP EARS had such a 'feature'. I have a miniDSP HA-DSP (discontiued now) which I like very much. Of course miniDSP recommends their EARS to measure your headphones and AutoEQ to generate PEQ to configure into the HA-DSP. I figured I wouldn't buy the EARS because AutoEQ already has a vast database of measurements and PEQ for headphones. I can see that that 4k dip can be very problematic because it can be hard to determine if the head gear you're measuring truly has a 4k dip or if it's caused by the EARS.


At least open-back headphone measurements are fairly reliable.

(and apologies to the earbud gods... derailment of thread over)


----------



## Ronion

GREQ said:


> At least open-back headphone measurements are fairly reliable.
> 
> (and apologies to the earbud gods... derailment of thread over)


It’s interesting to me that I don’t have the reliability problem or any interpretability issue.  This is definitely a solvable issue and we can get to the bottom of it if you are interested.  I know a lot of people have issues with the mini DSP ears, but I bet it’s at least largely solvable.  i literally just built a new rig and it’s 100% compatible with my old rig and the measurements lineup exactly and are absolutely comparable with old mods.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> It’s interesting to me that I don’t have the reliability problem or any interpretability issue.  This is definitely a solvable issue and we can get to the bottom of it if you are interested.  I know a lot of people have issues with the mini DSP ears, but I bet it’s at least largely solvable.  i literally just built a new rig and it’s 100% compatible with my old rig and the measurements lineup exactly and are absolutely comparable with old mods.


You should have a website or a thread at DIY forum so people can find out more about your adventures with measurements. I think I have only seen the artificial head. Reliable and interpretable measurement is useful for any maker, even if it is just for record keeping and QC purpose, IMHO.


----------



## Wil

its been a good week. 

I've received the VE Asura 3.0 FE and Blur 266R 300 ohm full copper cable. 

The Blur is deliciously mid-centric - vocals are a treat. 

The Asura have a great bass slam and soundstage. 

Man buds are fun.


----------



## GREQ

Ronion said:


> It’s interesting to me that I don’t have the reliability problem or any interpretability issue.  This is definitely a solvable issue and we can get to the bottom of it if you are interested.  I know a lot of people have issues with the mini DSP ears, but I bet it’s at least largely solvable.  i literally just built a new rig and it’s 100% compatible with my old rig and the measurements lineup exactly and are absolutely comparable with old mods.


I'm more worried than any significant changes to my rig might largely void my current measurement database. 
I feel like I've 'solved' my personal reliability issue with getting consistent and readable earbud graphs, so my soft conclusion is that I think the full-size headphone problem is just 'one of those things' you deal with when owning a minidsp EARS :/


----------



## o0genesis0o

GREQ said:


> At least open-back headphone measurements are fairly reliable.
> 
> (and apologies to the earbud gods... derailment of thread over)



I just had a chance to visit your website in the signature. Wowza   

I notice that your “head” measures quite differently from 711 measurements. That makes me wonder what Harman actually used to derive the in-ear target. Last time Dunu gather data from reviewers to see the deviations of hobbyists measurements, they found quite a bit of variation in the treble and deep bass, but the mid range seems to converge.


----------



## GREQ

o0genesis0o said:


> That makes me wonder what Harman actually used to derive the in-ear target.


IIRC it was originally from a pool of less than 80 people... so not a very good sample statistically speaking.
I never paid harman target stuff much attention since I think in most cases it causes more harm (Dunning-Kruger effect) than good.

As long as someone is making multiple measurements/graphs with ONE system, with the same methodology, then 'data' can be extrapolated.



o0genesis0o said:


> Last time Dunu gather data from reviewers to see the deviations of hobbyists measurements, they found quite a bit of variation in the treble and deep bass, but the mid range seems to converge.


Many IEMs I've tried, I have to turn down the artificial 3-4kHz pinna-gain down by about 5dB in EQ... horrible stuff


----------



## o0genesis0o

GREQ said:


> IIRC it was originally from a pool of less than 80 people... so not a very good sample statistically speaking.
> I never paid harman target stuff much attention since I think in most cases it causes more harm (Dunning-Kruger effect) than good.
> 
> As long as someone is making multiple measurements/graphs with ONE system, with the same methodology, then 'data' can be extrapolated.
> ...



Re: harman: from what I understand, their research has multiple steps. First, they figure out that most people prefer a downward sloped FR of speakers in good room. Then they use an artificial head (B&K stuffs?) to measure what that FR looks like in the ears. And then they do the validation against other DF targets with people (the chosen targets look quite harsh). Followed up research done on preference variations across demographic groups.

A few other manufacturers (AFAIK Final Audio, 64 audio, moondrop) replicated the experiment and came up with somewhat similar target. Final has more bass, 64 audio chops off the 3k, Moondrop is probably the closest.

Anyhow, my point is Harman target was measured by something, if that something is very different from a rig, it might not apply to measurements from that rig.


Re: Dunu: What I meant is they gather measurements of their products by many reviewers and compare those against their measurements from a calibrated rig. It seems that the community measures the midrange quite well, but not subbass and treble.

Anyhow, that might mean that IEM measurements based on 711 are somewhat true?


Well, in any case, just my thinking aloud and geeking.


----------



## yaps66

Have been away for a week and I have 50 pages to catch up on.  TL;DR what did I miss? 

In other news, my Serratus and Alpha have arrived and burning in.  Sending my lo9vwe the @tgx78.  You are a magician!


----------



## o0genesis0o

yaps66 said:


> Have been away for a week and I have 50 pages to catch up on.  TL;DR what did I miss?
> 
> In other news, my Serratus and Alpha have arrived and burning in.  Sending my lo9vwe the @tgx78.  You are a magician!



Congrats! Looking forward for your impressions. I also placed my order for Serratus today. So eager to hear and inspect a pair of high-level DIY earbuds.


----------



## jeejack

o0genesis0o said:


> Congrats! Looking forward for your impressions. I also placed my order for Serratus today. So eager to hear and inspect a pair of high-level DIY earbuds.


Were you afraid to do it yourself?
15.4mm Earphones Speaker unit PET Blue Diaphragm Bass Vocal Earphones DIY Drivers 32 Ohm 300 Ohm
https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0di2rE


----------



## Buchi

Ronion said:


> They are the same drivers.  I just put the 600 in new shells to go along with my 500.  All I can say is that I've never heard anything like it and they are as comfortable as PK shells.


Which drivers are you referring to here? Maybe I will be able to salvage my LBBS shell with them.


----------



## FranQL

mmmmmmm nop, LBB / s is 14,8 mm


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

well, seem like this news was shared 4years ago but i didnt see it. yet, im still a big fan of ultra cheap VIDO....so, this make them even more nobrainer.
The Yincrow X6 use very same DD than Vido.
*More than ever, its seem like logical to go DIY earbuds road to get highest sound value possible.*



yet i get the **** SEAHAWK lately, and find them technicaly incredible, imaging, resolution ,attack speed....brigh neutral with very crisp and snappy treble, yet, not harsh..yet i broke them due to my curiosity, since a trustable DIY maker tell me its not tungsten DD but biocellulose one...which indeed seem true. its a great 5$ DD, so still worth it a 6$ for the ****.


----------



## assassin10000

Buchi said:


> Which drivers are you referring to here? Maybe I will be able to salvage my LBBS shell with them.





FranQL said:


> mmmmmmm nop, LBB / s is 14,8 mm



Use the 14.8mm 32Ω Ti drivers instead.


----------



## o0genesis0o

jeejack said:


> Were you afraid to do it yourself?
> 15.4mm Earphones Speaker unit PET Blue Diaphragm Bass Vocal Earphones DIY Drivers 32 Ohm 300 Ohm
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0di2rE



I'm more curious about the venting at the back of Serratus. Look like rivet mod (which I have not tried), but it seems like some kind of clear tubing is used. I want to see it in real life.

About the drivers: *put it in the cart on Aliexpress*


----------



## Ronion (Oct 10, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> I'm more curious about the venting at the back of Serratus. Look like rivet mod (which I have not tried), but it seems like some kind of clear tubing is used. I want to see it in real life.
> 
> About the drivers: *put it in the cart on Aliexpress*


Here’s my clear shell rivet:



Looks a bit different:



I’ve also done some tubing mods to perfect the pinna gain shape:



There’s a lot that can be done to modify these things.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> Here’s my clear shell rivet:
> 
> Looks a bit different:
> 
> ...



Nice! Are those clear shells good (the last picture)? Easily scratched? I don’t understand what you did in the last photo though. What is that white thing on the shell?


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Nice! Are those clear shells good (the last picture)? Easily scratched? I don’t understand what you did in the last photo though. What is that white thing on the shell?


They are pretty hard to scratch actually.  I like them…. They have a place in this world for sure, but they don’t work well for everything.   

That little neck bolt is a particular tubing we use for draining small pockets of unwanted fluid accumulations.  After we are done with it, I use is for making earbud frequency response modifiers.  It’s an environmentally friendly earbud (kidding).


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> They are pretty hard to scratch actually.  I like them…. They have a place in this world for sure, but they don’t work well for everything.
> 
> That little neck bolt is a particular tubing we use for draining small pockets of unwanted fluid accumulations.  After we are done with it, I use is for making earbud frequency response modifiers.  It’s an environmentally friendly earbud (kidding).


I see it more clearly now (switched to a bigger screen). So it’s kind of of a plasticky, flexible tube with very small inner diameter? Interesting. I’m thinking about buying the tubes that they use inside custom IEMs to use instead of rivets. As far as I know, that bass tube needs to be sealed against the voice coil opening, right?


----------



## Ronion (Oct 10, 2022)

I definitely would not seal any tubings over the VC. 

It‘s a silicone tubing that’s been modified to be less hydrophobic than the pure, raw material.


----------



## assassin10000

Ronion said:


> Here’s my clear shell rivet:
> 
> Looks a bit different:
> 
> ...



Hmmmm. 

I've got a bag of different filters that I'm not currently using. May need to experiment.


----------



## waynes world (Oct 10, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I didn't know you did the minidisc thing too! I made my first mixed disc last night and brought my player and my buds with me today.



There's a dude on this forum who provided an intriguing list of music recently.. you should put some of that stuff on your mixed disc!



Spoiler: Tunes..






JAnonymous5150 said:


> For prog rock with the ES-P1s? Sure!
> 
> Porcupine Tree - In Absentia & Closure/Continuation
> 
> ...






I haven't made it through all of it yet, but it's all very good of course - exceptionally talented musicians! What really caught my ear today was Liquid Tension Experiment. I was famliar with them due to Tony Levin (whom I saw do his funk fingers thing with King Crimson many moons back which absolutely blew my mind). I had only listened to their first album, but No 2 and 3 that you recommended are ridiculously brilliant. Then onto Transatlantic - yet another supergroup that I had not heard of lol. They are stunning as well. Then onto Long Distance Calling... Wow, am I ever digging their stuff! Anyway, I just wanted to say I'm enjoying the tunes... with FF3's of couse (there, on topic lol).


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Oct 11, 2022)

waynes world said:


> There's a dude on this forum who provided an intriguing list of music recently.. you should put some of that stuff on your mixed disc!
> 
> 
> I haven't made it through all of it yet, but it's all very good of course - exceptionally talented musicians! What really caught my ear today was Liquid Tension Experiment. I was famliar with them due to Tony Levin (whom I saw do his funk fingers thing with King Crimson many moons back which absolutely blew my mind). I had only listened to their first album, but No 2 and 3 that you recommended are ridiculously brilliant. Then onto Transatlantic - yet another supergroup that I had not heard of lol. They are stunning as well. Then onto Long Distance Calling... Wow, am I ever digging their stuff! Anyway, I just wanted to say I'm enjoying the tunes... with FF3's of couse (there, on topic lol).



Uh, I'm the dude that made that list...LOL 😂

Edit: Long Distance Calling are seriously awesome and, yes, some of this stuff definitely made it onto my mixed disc.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

waynes world said:


> There's a dude on this forum who provided an intriguing list of music recently.. you should put some of that stuff on your mixed disc!
> 
> 
> I haven't made it through all of it yet, but it's all very good of course - exceptionally talented musicians! What really caught my ear today was Liquid Tension Experiment. I was famliar with them due to Tony Levin (whom I saw do his funk fingers thing with King Crimson many moons back which absolutely blew my mind). I had only listened to their first album, but No 2 and 3 that you recommended are ridiculously brilliant. Then onto Transatlantic - yet another supergroup that I had not heard of lol. They are stunning as well. Then onto Long Distance Calling... Wow, am I ever digging their stuff! Anyway, I just wanted to say I'm enjoying the tunes... with FF3's of couse (there, on topic lol).



Seriously though, I am stoked that you're diggin' my recs! I've been on a big djent/prog/neo-prog/prog-metal kick lately because of some drumming techniques I'm studying for my own use so I have been listening to tons of that stuff from bands that are obscure/unknown on bandcamp through some of the sickest prog supergroups around and I'm amazed at how far this genre has come since my last real prog run in the early 2000s. That list is basically just a snapshot of some favorites of what I was listening to then, but I could go on and on really. If you want to catch some great music recs there is a thread in the full sized heasphones forum about which headphones people with multiple pairs are listening to. I'm fairly active on there, but so are some other guys that routinely throwdown so great music recs of all kinds, lots of prog included. Folks generally post the rig they're listening to along with the album(s) they're checking out.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Seriously though, I am stoked that you're diggin' my recs! I've been on a big djent/prog/neo-prog/prog-metal kick lately because of some drumming techniques I'm studying for my own use so I have been listening to tons of that stuff from bands that are obscure/unknown on bandcamp through some of the sickest prog supergroups around and I'm amazed at how far this genre has come since my last real prog run in the early 2000s. That list is basically just a snapshot of some favorites of what I was listening to then, but I could go on and on really. If you want to catch some great music recs there is a thread in the full sized heasphones forum about which headphones people with multiple pairs are listening to. I'm fairly active on there, but so are some other guys that routinely throwdown so great music recs of all kinds, lots of prog included. Folks generally post the rig they're listening to along with the album(s) they're checking out.



I like the G.O.A.T. album that you recommended. Good for testing earphones and sources


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> I like the G.O.A.T. album that you recommended. Good for testing earphones and sources



You mean Polyphia's album New Levels New Devils? It has a track entitled G.O.A.T. on it that's pretty badass. If you're referring to a different recommendation I'm drawing a blank.

If you are talking about NLND, then I totally agree, it's an exceptional album for testing everything from layering and imaging to separation and detail retrieval. It has tracks that are great for testing dynamic performance as well. 

Also, due to the musical style and how well recorded and mastered the album is, it's very good for checking timbral accuracy when you follow some of the palm mutes and note/chord bending that will often bend from one area to the next (for example high mids to low treble) which is great at showing tonal/timbral incongruency between DDs and BAs in a hybrid driver setup for example.

It's also worth mentioning that NLND is great for checking how well a transducer holds up as more and more layers are added in complex pieces. It makes it easy to see if a driver's bass reproduction abilities are nimble enough to keep up as the sub and mid bass are doing distinctly different things or if it will get congested and muddy or even effect the mix into the mids as well. There aren't very many albums that I'm aware of that give you such a wide range of high quality material to test so many properties from a transducer.

When I go to a headphone/hifi shop or yo something like CanJam, NLND is one of the albums I make sure to have loaded and ready because it gives me a ton of testability that's easily accessed in shorts demo periods that can really do a great job showing me if a particular source, transducer, etc is worth checking into further.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> You mean Polyphia's album New Levels New Devils? It has a track entitled G.O.A.T. on it that's pretty badass. If you're referring to a different recommendation I'm drawing a blank.
> 
> If you are talking about NLND, then I totally agree, it's an exceptional album for testing everything from layering and imaging to separation and detail retrieval. It has tracks that are great for testing dynamic performance as well.
> 
> ...


Yup, that’s the album. I remember it as GOAT album some how. That track reveals the quality difference between Megatron and A&K Sp2000T DAP so clearly that it’s impossible to say “no difference” (but folks on reddit would still be able to say “you are delusional” for sure). Not sure that I prefer the crisp and unforgiving render of GOAT on SP2000T though. (And I would certainly not pay AUD $3600 for that ancient Android phone with an overpowered on-board DAC/AMP)

From what you say, the music is actually recorded in studio, not just generated entirely in digital format? Wow. How do they even count the rhythm


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Yup, that’s the album. I remember it as GOAT album some how. That track reveals the quality difference between Megatron and A&K Sp2000T DAP so clearly that it’s impossible to say “no difference” (but folks on reddit would still be able to say “you are delusional” for sure). Not sure that I prefer the crisp and unforgiving render of GOAT on SP2000T though. (And I would certainly not pay AUD $3600 for that ancient Android phone with an overpowered on-board DAC/AMP)
> 
> From what you say, the music is actually recorded in studio, not just generated entirely in digital format? Wow. How do they even count the rhythm



It's actually recorded. They use lots of effects and digital samples, but it's all being performed on live instruments. You should see them live, it's crazy!


----------



## jogawag (Oct 11, 2022)

Ronion said:


> An earbud driver is smaller than most tweeters.  Earbuds are basically too small to have this problem to any major degree. The easiest Way to tune the treble is with a different foam cover.  There are of course other things you can do, but that’s where to start as far as I’m concerned.  It’s not just “make things as simple as possible….”, it’s probably best to keep things as simple as possible to start. Then if that doesn’t work, look into other possibilities.  I’ve literally only needed other options a couple time. All drivers need the right foams for them.  You need foams to have bass anyway.


There is a wearing method that maximises the bass of the earbuds.
The vertical wearing of earbuds means that 'the earbuds  are not placed horizontally over the ear canal, but are pressed vertically against the front of the ear canal'.
Some people have already adopted this method.


----------



## ttorbic

jogawag said:


> There is a wearing method that maximises the bass of the earbuds.
> The vertical wearing of earbuds means that 'the earbuds  are not placed horizontally over the ear canal, but are pressed vertically against the front of the ear canal'.
> Some people have already adopted this method.


That looks uncomfortable haha


----------



## jogawag

ttorbic said:


> That looks uncomfortable haha


Try it once.
That isn't uncomfortable at least for me.


----------



## yaps66

jogawag said:


> Try it once.
> That isn't uncomfortable at least for me.


I tried it on the FF3 and it is uncomfortable due to the shape of the FF3.  Besides, the FF3 is such a bass monster that it is not required!


----------



## DBaldock9

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Seriously though, I am stoked that you're diggin' my recs! I've been on a big djent/prog/neo-prog/prog-metal kick lately because of some drumming techniques I'm studying for my own use so I have been listening to tons of that stuff from bands that are obscure/unknown on bandcamp through some of the sickest prog supergroups around and I'm amazed at how far this genre has come since my last real prog run in the early 2000s. That list is basically just a snapshot of some favorites of what I was listening to then, but I could go on and on really. If you want to catch some great music recs there is a thread in the full sized heasphones forum about which headphones people with multiple pairs are listening to. I'm fairly active on there, but so are some other guys that routinely throwdown so great music recs of all kinds, lots of prog included. Folks generally post the rig they're listening to along with the album(s) they're checking out.



Have you ever listened to any of the albums by the UK Prog-Rock band, *Iona*?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iona_(band)
http://www.iona.uk.com/
They're probably my favorite band.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

DBaldock9 said:


> Have you ever listened to any of the albums by the UK Prog-Rock band, *Iona*?
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iona_(band)
> http://www.iona.uk.com/
> They're probably my favorite band.



I don't think I have actually. They're not ringing any bells so I'll give them a listen for sure. Thanks for the heads up! 

It's amazing how much good prog is being put out by bands from every country and how criminally overlooked most of it is. 
Most folks I talk to that are just your average music listeners are essentially totally unaware of its existence as a genre or they think its just something Genesis and Yes did and they don't particularly like it. Crazy indeed!


----------



## waynes world

I just wanted to say that as much as I love the FF3's, I won't be throwing away my ST10 BG's any time soon - having a bit of a lovely reunion!


----------



## Ronion

Okay, so who’s using the Megatron and what do you think of it?  I’m reading a bunch of good reviews, but the specs don’t look that impressive to me.  I’m also used to the FiiO e12MB and A5 along with the B4x.  So I’m used to having a lot of power on tap.  Any other recommendations for high impedance earbuds?  I don’t mind if they have an internal battery if it’s improved performance.  What I really want is just one cable going straight into the device and the ability to drive the 500 and 600Be buds to their fullest.  It would be an added bonus if it’s possible to make phone calls with it and it has to be compatible with the iPhone.  Some education on the science of how much power is possible with a dongle that lacks a battery would be much appreciated as well.  Where is @samandhi?  He’s my “go to” for matters of electronics.  I know that using my Hidizs S8 beats the pants off of the iPhone dongle and even my other 2V dongle interestingly enough, but I’m betting there is a significant upgrade to be had.  Thanks in advance “bud”dies!


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> Okay, so who’s using the Megatron and what do you think of it?  I’m reading a bunch of good reviews, but the specs don’t look that impressive to me.  I’m also used to the FiiO e12MB and A5 along with the B4x.  So I’m used to having a lot of power on tap.  Any other recommendations for high impedance earbuds?  I don’t mind if they have an internal battery if it’s improved performance.  What I really want is just one cable going straight into the device and the ability to drive the 500 and 600Be buds to their fullest.  It would be an added bonus if it’s possible to make phone calls with it and it has to be compatible with the iPhone.  Some education on the science of how much power is possible with a dongle that lacks a battery would be much appreciated as well.  Where is @samandhi?  He’s my “go to” for matters of electronics.  I know that using my Hidizs S8 beats the pants off of the iPhone dongle and even my other 2V dongle interestingly enough, but I’m betting there is a significant upgrade to be had.  Thanks in advance “bud”dies!



I think the key benefit of Megatron is simplicity and cheap. For me who has never listened to anything with this level of power output, Megatron makes a noticeable difference. For folks with really powerful stuffs (high-end DAP, battery-powered portable DAC/AMP, desktop stacks), Megatron might just be ordinary. In A/B tests, I found that Megatron lacks a bit of refinement clarity and separation comparing to an expensive A&K DAP. 

Speaking of Hidizs S8, I’m going to review their S9 Pro, which is supposed to be an improvement. Let’s see.


----------



## fooltoque

jogawag said:


> There is a wearing method that maximises the bass of the earbuds.
> The vertical wearing of earbuds means that 'the earbuds  are not placed horizontally over the ear canal, but are pressed vertically against the front of the ear canal'.
> Some people have already adopted this method.


----------



## fooltoque (Oct 12, 2022)

I had to try that as soon as I saw it, but 2/3 of my own earbuds are impossible to fit in that way, my last pair (mx500 shell) fits in, but immediately falls out again.

edit: just pretend that I actually quoted the post and didn't double post somehow.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> Okay, so who’s using the Megatron and what do you think of it?  I’m reading a bunch of good reviews, but the specs don’t look that impressive to me.  I’m also used to the FiiO e12MB and A5 along with the B4x.  So I’m used to having a lot of power on tap.  Any other recommendations for high impedance earbuds?  I don’t mind if they have an internal battery if it’s improved performance.  What I really want is just one cable going straight into the device and the ability to drive the 500 and 600Be buds to their fullest.  It would be an added bonus if it’s possible to make phone calls with it and it has to be compatible with the iPhone.  Some education on the science of how much power is possible with a dongle that lacks a battery would be much appreciated as well.  Where is @samandhi?  He’s my “go to” for matters of electronics.  I know that using my Hidizs S8 beats the pants off of the iPhone dongle and even my other 2V dongle interestingly enough, but I’m betting there is a significant upgrade to be had.  Thanks in advance “bud”dies!



I mentioned this in the Megatron appreciation thread and possibly in the VE appreciation thread as well, but I think the power output of the Megatron may be underreported. I haven't had a chance to measure it yet, but it has significantly more power that the two dongles I have access to that claim numbers in the same neighborhood from purely qualitative/anecdotal observations  of mine. My Gryphon is the only portable that I have with more power, but based on the numbers reported by ifi and VE there should be a much bigger difference in power between the two than what I'm hearing.

The Megatron is pretty impressive and once you factor in the $50 price tag it's kinda ridiculous. The Gryphon and by extension the Diablo are the only devices I have experience with that are portable with more driving power for something like those 600ohm buds which the Gryphon does an admirable job driving. However, the Megatron isn't far behind and if you're not lookin' to drop $500 to drive your buds it's a great way to go.

If it will help you out, I can have my bassist bring his little bear to the studio tomorrow so I can compare their driving power.

If you want to read what I said about the megatron I posted a couple things on this thread, but I also posted something on the Megatron thread. I'm a big fan of this thing.


----------



## jogawag

fooltoque said:


> I had to try that as soon as I saw it, but 2/3 of my own earbuds are impossible to fit in that way, my last pair (mx500 shell) fits in, but immediately falls out again.
> 
> edit: just pretend that I actually quoted the post and didn't double post somehow.


With the MX500 shell, if you remove the foam and push it into the ear canal, it will be less likely to come off the ear.
However, depending on the shape of the ear canal, some people may have difficulty with this vertical fitting method.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I mentioned this in the Megatron appreciation thread and possibly in the VE appreciation thread as well, but I think the power output of the Megatron may be underreported. I haven't had a chance to measure it yet, but it has significantly more power that the two dongles I have access to that claim numbers in the same neighborhood from purely qualitative/anecdotal observations  of mine. My Gryphon is the only portable that I have with more power, but based on the numbers reported by ifi and VE there should be a much bigger difference in power between the two than what I'm hearing.
> 
> The Megatron is pretty impressive and once you factor in the $50 price tag it's kinda ridiculous. The Gryphon and by extension the Diablo are the only devices I have experience with that are portable with more driving power for something like those 600ohm buds which the Gryphon does an admirable job driving. However, the Megatron isn't far behind and if you're not lookin' to drop $500 to drive your buds it's a great way to go.
> 
> ...



Megatron makes everything less powerful kind of bland and flat to me. The impression that Megatron makes on me is similar to the first time I heard Fiio M11+. Interestingly, both are not that different in output power and one step above the usual Dual ESS dongles.


----------



## jeejack

Ronion said:


> Okay, so who’s using the Megatron and what do you think of it?  I’m reading a bunch of good reviews, but the specs don’t look that impressive to me.  I’m also used to the FiiO e12MB and A5 along with the B4x.  So I’m used to having a lot of power on tap.  Any other recommendations for high impedance earbuds?  I don’t mind if they have an internal battery if it’s improved performance.  What I really want is just one cable going straight into the device and the ability to drive the 500 and 600Be buds to their fullest.  It would be an added bonus if it’s possible to make phone calls with it and it has to be compatible with the iPhone.  Some education on the science of how much power is possible with a dongle that lacks a battery would be much appreciated as well.  Where is @samandhi?  He’s my “go to” for matters of electronics.  I know that using my Hidizs S8 beats the pants off of the iPhone dongle and even my other 2V dongle interestingly enough, but I’m betting there is a significant upgrade to be had.  Thanks in advance “bud”dies!


Our hermano @FranQL have Megatron also.
I use my E12, Q3 and XD05 plus or Tempotec V6 for high impedance drivers
In the photo i have btr5 + E12


----------



## Ronion (Oct 12, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> I think the key benefit of Megatron is simplicity and cheap. For me who has never listened to anything with this level of power output, Megatron makes a noticeable difference. For folks with really powerful stuffs (high-end DAP, battery-powered portable DAC/AMP, desktop stacks), Megatron might just be ordinary. In A/B tests, I found that Megatron lacks a bit of refinement clarity and separation comparing to an expensive A&K DAP.
> 
> Speaking of Hidizs S8, I’m going to review their S9 Pro, which is supposed to be an improvement. Let’s see.


Excellent!  Looking forward to the review of the S9!


JAnonymous5150 said:


> I mentioned this in the Megatron appreciation thread and possibly in the VE appreciation thread as well, but I think the power output of the Megatron may be underreported. I haven't had a chance to measure it yet, but it has significantly more power that the two dongles I have access to that claim numbers in the same neighborhood from purely qualitative/anecdotal observations  of mine. My Gryphon is the only portable that I have with more power, but based on the numbers reported by ifi and VE there should be a much bigger difference in power between the two than what I'm hearing.
> 
> The Megatron is pretty impressive and once you factor in the $50 price tag it's kinda ridiculous. The Gryphon and by extension the Diablo are the only devices I have experience with that are portable with more driving power for something like those 600ohm buds which the Gryphon does an admirable job driving. However, the Megatron isn't far behind and if you're not lookin' to drop $500 to drive your buds it's a great way to go.
> 
> ...


From what I’ve read, you are probably correct: their power is underreported.  It’s hard to beat the bargain of it.  It would be very cool if he could bring the B4 and I’d be most interested to know your thoughts!  Thank you! 


jeejack said:


> Our hermano @FranQL have Megatron also.
> I use my E12, Q3 and XD05 plus or Tempotec V6 for high impedance drivers
> In the photo i have btr5 + E12


Since my e12 died on my (it was my favorite portable), I feel the need to driver these 500 and 600 Ohm buds properly.  I’ll ask @FranQL for the low down and dirty.  He has the same buds as well.  It’s an interesting concept and I’m not sure how they’ve done it.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> Excellent!  Looking forward to the review of the S9!
> 
> From what I’ve read, you are probably correct: their power is underreported.  It’s hard to beat the bargain of it.  It would be very cool if he could bring the B4 and I’d be most interested to know your thoughts!  Thank you!
> 
> Since my e12 died on my (it was my favorite portable), I feel the need to driver these 500 and 600 Ohm buds probably.  I’ll ask @FranQL for the low down and dirty.  He has the same buds as well.  It’s an interesting concept and I’m not sure how they’ve done it.



I already spoke to him about bringing his B4-X. Does it matter that his is a B4-X and not the B4?


----------



## ttorbic

Ronion said:


> Excellent!  Looking forward to the review of the S9!
> 
> From what I’ve read, you are probably correct: their power is underreported.  It’s hard to beat the bargain of it.  It would be very cool if he could bring the B4 and I’d be most interested to know your thoughts!  Thank you!
> 
> Since my e12 died on my (it was my favorite portable), I feel the need to driver these 500 and 600 Ohm buds probably.  I’ll ask @FranQL for the low down and dirty.  He has the same buds as well.  It’s an interesting concept and I’m not sure how they’ve done it.


I have researched a fair bit online, and I think the Megatron offers great power/price, but if you have the budget and want a more "future-proof" portable powerhouse, you may want to look at Topping G5 or XD-05 BAL; the latter offers opamp switchability, and wireless capability through a bluetooth adaptor. I didn't buy one because it was outside my budget, but it's been on my radar for a while


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> Excellent!  Looking forward to the review of the S9!
> 
> From what I’ve read, you are probably correct: their power is underreported.  It’s hard to beat the bargain of it.  It would be very cool if he could bring the B4 and I’d be most interested to know your thoughts!  Thank you!
> 
> Since my e12 died on my (it was my favorite portable), I feel the need to driver these 500 and 600 Ohm buds probably.  I’ll ask @FranQL for the low down and dirty.  He has the same buds as well.  It’s an interesting concept and I’m not sure how they’ve done it.






Don’t bother with S9 if you want power. It cannot drive my E5000 to the degree that megatron can.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Okay, so who’s using the Megatron and what do you think of it?  I’m reading a bunch of good reviews, but the specs don’t look that impressive to me.  I’m also used to the FiiO e12MB and A5 along with the B4x.  So I’m used to having a lot of power on tap.  Any other recommendations for high impedance earbuds?  I don’t mind if they have an internal battery if it’s improved performance.  What I really want is just one cable going straight into the device and the ability to drive the 500 and 600Be buds to their fullest.  It would be an added bonus if it’s possible to make phone calls with it and it has to be compatible with the iPhone.  Some education on the science of how much power is possible with a dongle that lacks a battery would be much appreciated as well.  Where is @samandhi?  He’s my “go to” for matters of electronics.  I know that using my Hidizs S8 beats the pants off of the iPhone dongle and even my other 2V dongle interestingly enough, but I’m betting there is a significant upgrade to be had.  Thanks in advance “bud”dies!


I'm still around brother. I have just been really busy as of late, and I have also not had much "value add" to the conversations (mostly DIY stuff). 

One thing you didn't mention is price. I will assume you are looking for the best price/performance ratio that you can find (aren't w all???)?! I am also assuming you are using your phone as a source? So, given some assumptions, here are some of my recs for you. 

If you are wanting to stick to a "dongle" type of device, I have found that one of the most powerful ones I could find is the Earman Sparrow which you can buy here. While it does put out a monstrous amount of power for a dongle @600ohms (4.0Vrms), it isn't enough to "properly" drive them. Having said that, they CAN sound really good regardless depending on the synergy. Here are the numbers for you to see:

Power output of the Earman Sparrow @600ohms


4Vrms
26.27mW
6.57mA
And (assuming the numbers from the Yinman 2.0 600) power needed @600 ohms w/93dB/mW (to reach 110dBSPL):


5.52Vrms
51mW
9.2mA
As we can see, this dongle will not drive it properly. Given the numbers (and very inefficient nature) of the Yinman, you will need something that outputs a maximum of 5.52Vrms (minimum) to drive these to 110dB/SPL, which you may not need to get that loud, but remember you need to account for voltage swing, among other factors. I normally try and keep 1.5 times the power needed in reserve in order to drive these properly at all times. This usually leaves plenty of headroom...

Having said that something that outputs 1W or better should do what you need, then all you need to do is look at the other numbers to make sure that not only are they driven properly, but they have some dynamics, and low noise, etc.... (THD, SNR, DAC quality and/or how many, Oscillator type or FPGA-Master, etc...), and find the best compromise you can without having to pay "WooAudio" prices... 

I found a little desktop type amp that might suit your needs for high impedance (though it only has a 6.5mm output, but who doesn't have one of these little adapters nowadays???). It is the FiiO K5 Pro ESS. For $150 it looks really impressive IMO.... Give it a eyball if you are interested. It also appears to have a dual power system for isolation (discrete "like") to overcome line noise that might be typical on a cheaper powered amp). 

The major problem here is that it would not be suitable for lower impedance head gear because its output impedance is 10ohms (remember the rule of "8s" here). This is a problem with most (budget) desktop solutions that are capable of driving higher impedance head gear (unless you pay a lot more money). 

When I first started riding motorcycles (and shopping for my first NEW one), I was told "do not buy a smaller one thinking to upgrade to a bigger one later. You will only lose money in the end, and not be happy. Buy the one you think you want later, now."

This turned out to be some of the best advice I could have gotten, and I hold this to be true also for audio equipment. The reason I used this analogy is because I would still argue that there is more price/performance to be had by getting a contemporary DAP that can do all that you are asking, and then some. A desktop amp/DAC is great but is SORT OF a one trick pony compared to a good (and powerful) DAP. For instance, with a good DAP, you can use reverse BT nowadays to connect to your phone (as a source), and have no wires, and can even take phones calls on it (as long as your head gear has a mic). This is not to say that you can't do this with a desktop solution also, but there are fewer choices in that realm than are the DAPs that are capable of doing this. My lowly Shanling M0 (80mW output) can do this... 

As another "for instance", the (mid-tier) iBasso DX170 outputs 1.2W and will drive just about any head gear you throw at it, and the output impedance is normally under 1ohm. It is very small (smaller than your phone I'll wager) and can be used as a desktop solution if you desire, or just pick it up, throw in a 1TB card and take it on the go.

Yes, eventually the version of android becomes out of date, but I don't use the (android) DAP as ANYTHING but a music player; you have a phone for all that other stuff. You still have more options (even when outdated) than if you bought a desktop solution (which has static FW and can never change, or changes VERY little). In other words, it should be good forever, as long as you change the battery after years of use (which is pretty easy nowadays on most DAPs). 

You don't really need to get into flagship levels in order to have fantastic sound IMHO (DX300/DX320, N8II, M8, SP3000, etc..), though those flagships (in a lot of cases) DO add tech that can only be had with those. It just depends on what is important to you. For me, I love my DX160, but I wanted the dual battery of the DX300 so I have 2A available to drive planars (not to mention I get 15 hours of playtime even with 2W available). As well the other things that make this one an "end gamer" for me (quality of sound being one of them also, of course). 

Just some food for thought for you bro....  I hope that this was at least SOMEWHAT helpful and didn't make things worse?!


----------



## FranQL

Ronion said:


> Since my e12 died on my (it was my favorite portable), I feel the need to driver these 500 and 600 Ohm buds probably.  I’ll ask @FranQL for the low down and dirty.  He has the same buds as well.  It’s an interesting concept and I’m not sure how they’ve done it.



@JAnonymous5150 will be able to give you that information first hand


----------



## samandhi

Or, @Ronion if you just want a really good amp (no DAC), I might suggest something like the Shiit Magni 3+B which puts out 2.4W @32ohms for $125. This is the same amount of power that my DX300 puts out with the Amp12 card in it, and I can tell you that it drives 600ohm buds VERY well IMO... 

Pretty much anything from Shiit would be a great portable desktop solution IMO. Also there is Bottlehead, as well as quite a few others that might offer a solution to you...


----------



## ian91

samandhi said:


> Or, @Ronion if you just want a really good amp (no DAC), I might suggest something like the Shiit Magni 3+B which puts out 2.4W @32ohms for $125. This is the same amount of power that my DX300 puts out with the Amp12 card in it, and I can tell you that it drives 600ohm buds VERY well IMO...
> 
> Pretty much anything from Shiit would be a great portable desktop solution IMO. Also there is Bottlehead, as well as quite a few others that might offer a solution to you...



Schiit Valhalla 2 + 600Bery = my happy place , and I much prefer it to what the Shanling M8 can put out. Potential candidates for 'portable/transportable heaven' on my radar are the ifi Diablo (not a huge fan of Burr Brown sound), FiiO Q7 and now you've pointed it out, the DX300. Just have to find the money...!


----------



## samandhi (Oct 12, 2022)

ian91 said:


> Schiit Valhalla 2 + 600Bery = my happy place , and I much prefer it to what the Shanling M8 can put out. Potential candidates for 'portable/transportable heaven' on my radar are the ifi Diablo (not a huge fan of Burr Brown sound), FiiO Q7 and now you've pointed it out, the DX300. Just have to find the money...!


Yeah, if I were looking for a desktop solution and didn't have the money for a WooAudio, or a Cayin C9, Shiit would probably be on the top of my radar. I have read really good things about all the Valhalla series too.

I think that because a lot of manufacturers are now focusing on portable and making their head gear low impedance, most of even some of the biggest names are not throwing a ton of power into their amp sections. M8 has a really good and musical sound but isn't as powerful as others out there. This has been what has always made me like iBasso products. Their value/performance compared to other flagships models is pretty insane if you look at all of it. Having said that, if it weren't so damned expensive, I might have actually gone with the Cayin N8II otherwise (until I heard the iBasso sound).

I used to be pretty preferential as to what DAC chip was in a device, but since FiiO released their X DAPs with TI chips (Texas Instruments, IKR??? ), and iBasso with their Cirrus chips (which bought and probably uses some of Wolfsen's tech/knowledge), I have been simply blown away, and no longer pay AS much attention to that as I do the implementation. Having said that, I would NEVER have considered a TI or Cirrus chip for a flagship purchase before those experiences. Hope that doesn't make me sound TOO "stuck-up" or "uppity"...   

It sounds like you have some pretty good stuff on your radar. I don't balk too much about $1k these days. I know it seems pretty high, but if you think about it, you are paying that much, or more for a good phone nowadays (and most don't have crap for sound quality). At the same time, I look at it as an investment that I will have for many years to come. I don't look upon it as if I will be trashing/selling it in 3-4 years, I see it as me ALWAYS having it; I still have my Samsung Note 4 and sometimes use it for a music transport/source, it was just that good (back in the day), and how old is that now?

Having said all of that, I am not (nor ever will be) opposed to a great amp or DAC/amp. I just have not been able to procure one that is affordable, that has the flagship level sound that I already have (I don't really want to go backwards in any category). One day I will probably pull the trigger on something magnificent (for me) and I won't look back. Until then, I have my portable, desktop, tube, SS, everything device that powers everything I have, and probably will ever have (short of some over ear electrostats).

Edit: I feel the need to say that these are all (only) my opinions, and YMMV. I hope everyone has a fantastic day!


----------



## samandhi

Also @Ronion as another option, here is a hybrid tube amp for your consideration. This one puts out 70W at $150 in its cheapest configuration (yes you read that right, 70W, that's 70,000mW lol)...  It has a built in VU meter, and BT out, and USB out, etc... I haven't read any reviews of the sound, but it appears pretty darned nice IMO... 

I may have to look a little deeper at this one myself... LOL

Rockville Bluetube


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Also @Ronion as another option, here is a hybrid tube amp for your consideration. This one puts out 70W at $150 in its cheapest configuration (yes you read that right, 70W, that's 70,000mW lol)...  It has a built in VU meter, and BT out, and USB out, etc... I haven't read any reviews of the sound, but it appears pretty darned nice IMO...
> 
> I may have to look a little deeper at this one myself... LOL
> 
> Rockville Bluetube


Nice find. It's really 35W x2 at 4Ω, 25W x2 at 8Ω speakers. There's no spec of the power at the headphone out. Maybe build some 4Ω buds, connect to the speaker posts and go to town? LOL!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> Nice find. It's really 35W x2 at 4Ω, 25W x2 at 8Ω speakers. There's no spec of the power at the headphone out. Maybe build some 4Ω buds, connect to the speaker posts and go to town? LOL!



Go to town or go deaf? I don't even dump that kinda power into my DCAs!


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Go to town or go deaf? I don't even dump that kinda power into my DCAs!


The voice coils would probably melt or flash. Like sticking in a wire directly into the hot and neutral of a wall outlet. Immediate flash / bang.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Nice find. It's really 35W x2 at 4Ω, 25W x2 at 8Ω speakers. There's no spec of the power at the headphone out. Maybe build some 4Ω buds, connect to the speaker posts and go to town? LOL!


Yeah, that was my first glance at that particular unit. I was not able to locate the impedance or power output of the headphone jack. If they aren't too bad, I still think this might be a good find though. I may contact the manufacturer and ask. 


mt877 said:


> The voice coils would probably melt or flash. Like sticking in a wire directly into the hot and neutral of a wall outlet. Immediate flash / bang.


If you remember those oversized earbuds that were actually on ear headphones with foams on them, from yesteryear that came free with most cassette players (and such); I once took a pair of those and cut the cable to wire directly into my "speaker out" of a (rack) stereo system of something like 50W/channel. I can say that I did NOT melt them, and boy did they get loud (I mean REALLY loud), but I blew them in the end. They sounded really good (to my ears) for a time though... In hindsight, I am surprised I have ANY hearing left after using them in that fashion.


----------



## samandhi

Regarding the Rockville BlueTube amp/receiver, I would stay away from it, although it IS a great proof of concept that there are budget devices out there that CAN do the job. The reason I wouldn't buy it is because the SNR on that is listed simply as >86dB. That is horrible and this could potentially be a "white noise" generator....   Which means that either the DAC is not very good, or they have poor (read cheap) parts and/or isolation from input power, etc...


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Yeah, that was my first glance at that particular unit. I was not able to locate the impedance or power output of the headphone jack. If they aren't too bad, I still think this might be a good find though. I may contact the manufacturer and ask.
> 
> If you remember those oversized earbuds that were actually on ear headphones with foams on them, from yesteryear that came free with most cassette players (and such); I once took a pair of those and cut the cable to wire directly into my "speaker out" of a (rack) stereo system of something like 50W/channel. I can say that I did NOT melt them, and boy did they get loud (I mean REALLY loud), but I blew them in the end. They sounded really good (to my ears) for a time though... In hindsight, I am surprised I have ANY hearing left after using them in that fashion.


Ha, so maybe my first suggestion of (minus building 4Ω buds) connecting to the speaker posts might not be such a bad idea. Don't know exactly how that would affect the tube performance though because of the impedance mismatch. Sounds like the voice coils in those old ear headphones couldn't take the current and destroyed themselves.


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> I'm still around brother. I have just been really busy as of late, and I have also not had much "value add" to the conversations (mostly DIY stuff).
> 
> One thing you didn't mention is price. I will assume you are looking for the best price/performance ratio that you can find (aren't w all???)?! I am also assuming you are using your phone as a source? So, given some assumptions, here are some of my recs for you.
> 
> ...



Mate, I has just been able to make peace with not buying DAP (and put that saving towards a Serratus), why do you have to be so convincing 

Since you know quite a bit about sources, I have a couple questions:

The first time I plugged Andromeda to M11+, I choose the lowest gain and 5% volume, fearing the loud noise, but I heard nothing. Had to keep turning up and up and up until mid-gain, 50% volume. Meanwhile, strong dongles like KA3 and S9 get uncomfortably loud at around 5% I have never been able to wrap my head around this.
How can Megatron have that much output power without getting very hot or draining your battery fast like KA3 or S9 dongle? I mean the power must come from somewhere, right?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

FranQL said:


> @JAnonymous5150 will be able to give you that information first hand



Thanks again for the present, brother! These buds sound great and, even better, they were made by one heck of a guy! These are the best surprise I have gotten in a long time.

To @Ronion re drivability: These 600ohm beasts that @FranQL sent me are teminated in 2.5mm balanced so plugged into the 2.5mm jack on the Megatron I need less than 20% of the volume to get them to where I'm listening to them right now as I rock out to some Long Distance Calling. When I plug the 2.5mm into an adapter and use these buds on the 3.5mm single ended output on the Megatron I'm still using less than half of the available power on tap. Not only is the music loud enough, but the buds have a rich, full sound with plenty of control and detail. They pair extremely well with Fran's 600ohm creations.

I am leaving for the studio shortly and my bassist is bringing the B4-X so I'll test the two side by side to get an idea of their relative driving power.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Ha, so maybe my first suggestion of (minus building 4Ω buds) connecting to the speaker posts might not be such a bad idea. Don't know exactly how that would affect the tube performance though because of the impedance mismatch. Sounds like the voice coils in those old ear headphones couldn't take the current and destroyed themselves.


Well, after reading about that thing, it appears that the tubes don't really affect the signal much but act more like a buffer. 

Yeah, either that, or the fact that I spent most of the time listening to them so loud that they (litterally) rattled...


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> ... the fact that I spent most of the time listening to them so loud that they (litterally) rattled...


Was that the beginning of your head gear adventure, the deep dive down the rabbit hole so to speak?


----------



## samandhi (Oct 12, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Mate, I has just been able to make peace with not buying DAP (and put that saving towards a Serratus), why do you have to be so convincing


I'm terribly sorry bro... DAPs are the worst (better???). 


o0genesis0o said:


> The first time I plugged Andromeda to M11+, I choose the lowest gain and 5% volume, fearing the loud noise, and I heard nothing. Had to keep turning up and up and up until mid-gain, 50% volume. Meanwhile, strong dongles like KA3 and S9 get uncomfortably loud at around 5% I have never been able to wrap my head around this.


This COULD be because of the higher output impedance of the M11+ compared to the dongles (2 or less for the M11, and .7 or less for the KA3 for instance). Or it could be that the three different gain settings on the M11+ aren't using the standard -6dB and -12 dB but is something more.

But, also keep in mind that just because the andros are very sensitive to noise, they are not very efficient, making a bit harder to drive than the 15ohm impedance would indicate (at 94dB/mW).


o0genesis0o said:


> How can Megatron have that much output power without getting very hot or draining your battery fast like KA3 or S9 dongle? I mean the power must come from somewhere, right?


Yes, but some implementations are just much more power efficient than others. As mentioned earlier, my DX300 can provide 2W and over 2A for 15 hours on something like a 4200mA battery (forgot the exact number for now). Well, maybe not sustained... 

In the scenario you are describing, are you talking about powering your Megatron from a phone (or battery powered source)? It might simply come down to amp draw on the battery. All Lipo batteries have a "C" rating that denotes the maximum discharge rate of the battery. This number represents that battery's ability (in a numerical form) to power a device with a full draw on it and how long it is able to do this. The higher the number the better/longer it is/can last before being depleted.

Edit: So not all 4200mA batteries are created equal.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Was that the beginning of your head gear adventure, the deep dive down the rabbit hole so to speak?


It was (way back in the early 80's)...


----------



## mt877 (Oct 12, 2022)

samandhi said:


> It was (way back in the early 80's)...


That was my WAG of the day...

Did you see my recent post about the updated M4 tuning damper info?

Here's the Smabat M4 driver to damper recommendation chart. Originally they had a type 4, which was wrong info. They renamed the stock damper type 2.5.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> That was my WAG of the day...


Wives and girlfriends???


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Thanks again for the present, brother! These buds sound great and, even better, they were made by one heck of a guy! These are the best surprise I have gotten in a long time.
> 
> To @Ronion re drivability: These 600ohm beasts that @FranQL sent me are teminated in 2.5mm balanced so plugged into the 2.5mm jack on the Megatron I need less than 20% of the volume to get them to where I'm listening to them right now as I rock out to some Long Distance Calling. When I plug the 2.5mm into an adapter and use these buds on the 3.5mm single ended output on the Megatron I'm still using less than half of the available power on tap. Not only is the music loud enough, but the buds have a rich, full sound with plenty of control and detail. They pair extremely well with Fran's 600ohm creations.
> 
> I am leaving for the studio shortly and my bassist is bringing the B4-X so I'll test the two side by side to get an idea of their relative driving power.


@FranQL makes some of the best. Congrats on your new shiny! 

Som pix would be splendid, good sir?!


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> That was my WAG of the day...
> 
> Did you see my recent post about the updated M4 tuning damper info?
> 
> Here's the Smabat M4 driver to damper recommendation chart. Originally they had a type 4, which was wrong info. They renamed the stock damper type 2.5.


That is very interesting. I'm glad to see that they replied to you on this. It also looks like they changed the ST20 40ohm to 50ohm. I wonder if they actually changed the driver, or if someone reported it as being actually 50???

So, have you gotten the chance to test them all out yet? I can't handle the amount of gain, so I just yanked mine out, which didn't do enough as it is, so I don't think I will be using the dampers... LOL


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> I'm terribly sorry bro... DAPs are the worst (better???).
> 
> This COULD be because of the higher output impedance of the M11+ compared to the dongles (2 or less for the M11, and .7 or less for the KA3 for instance). Or it could be that the three different gain settings on the M11+ aren't using the standard -6dB and -12 dB but is something more.
> 
> ...



It looks like Fiio M11S is back on the menu, boi   

You are right, Andro is actually 15ohm, 94dB/mW! I always remember it to be like 8ohm, 120mW. I don’t understand why it is so loud. My Hidizs MD4 (8ohm, 102dB/mW) requires more volume than Andro. Perhaps the specs of one of them is not correct? Weird.

Megatron does not burn through the battery as fast as KA3 and S9, but it is stronger. The gap in performance of E5000 between KA3/S9 and Megatron is as far as the gap between apple dongle and KA3/S9, IMHO. Great deal for a niche product.


----------



## mt877 (Oct 12, 2022)

samandhi said:


> That is very interesting. I'm glad to see that they replied to you on this. It also looks like they changed the ST20 40ohm to 50ohm. I wonder if they actually changed the driver, or if someone reported it as being actually 50???
> 
> So, have you gotten the chance to test them all out yet? I can't handle the amount of gain, so I just yanked mine out, which didn't do enough as it is, so I don't think I will be using the dampers... LOL


They never replied back to me. I think my email woke them up though, because shortly afterwards their AE and regular web site got updated with new information. I just happen to look at their AE store and saw they made changes and grabbed the images.

I've been super busy and other things happened in my life lately, so no time. I'll also be on the road these coming weeks, so will only visit the forum when I get a chance.

Well, removing the damper lowered the gain as much as possible, but probably messed with the general tuning as well. As it is, I'm thinking of getting 2 more M4 bodies during their monthly sale. Leaving 1 of them with stock damper (type 2.5) and changing the other bodies to type 2 and type 3 per their recommendation chart and see how that changes things.

I'm glad I don't have the gain issue like you do, so the M4 might survive in my collection. Sadly (from earbuds point of view) the best of the bunch is the balanced armature IEM driver. So if anything I'll be keeping the M4 body with BA driver for my IEM collection.


----------



## o0genesis0o

mt877 said:


> Sadly (from earbuds point of view) the best of the bunch is the balanced armature IEM driver. So if anything I'll be keeping the M4 body with BA driver for my IEM collection.



Same here. Funny enough, those BA drivers are not even Knowles or Sonion. They are made by Bellsing.

Btw, I found adding thicker filter rather than removing filter helps reduce the ear gain.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Thanks again for the present, brother! These buds sound great and, even better, they were made by one heck of a guy! These are the best surprise I have gotten in a long time.
> 
> To @Ronion re drivability: These 600ohm beasts that @FranQL sent me are teminated in 2.5mm balanced so plugged into the 2.5mm jack on the Megatron I need less than 20% of the volume to get them to where I'm listening to them right now as I rock out to some Long Distance Calling. When I plug the 2.5mm into an adapter and use these buds on the 3.5mm single ended output on the Megatron I'm still using less than half of the available power on tap. Not only is the music loud enough, but the buds have a rich, full sound with plenty of control and detail. They pair extremely well with Fran's 600ohm creations.
> 
> I am leaving for the studio shortly and my bassist is bringing the B4-X so I'll test the two side by side to get an idea of their relative driving power.


So, looking that numbers for that set of buds it is no wonder that the Megatron can push it (and I would agree that it does excite the drivers properly). They are 600ohms (as you already know), but they are fairly sensitive also (100dB/mW) making them much easier to drive than the Yinmans.

Megatron power output @600ohms:


4.9Vrms
40.02mW
8.17mA
And the FQL buds w/600ohms @100db/mW need (to reach 110dBSPL):


2.45Vrms
10mW
4.1mA



o0genesis0o said:


> It looks like Fiio M11S is back on the menu, boi
> 
> You are right, Andro is actually 15ohm, 94dB/mW! I always remember it to be like 8ohm, 120mW. I don’t understand why it is so loud. My Hidizs MD4 (8ohm, 102dB/mW) requires more volume than Andro. Perhaps the specs of one of them is not correct? Weird.
> 
> Megatron does not burn through the battery as fast as KA3 and S9, but it is stronger. The gap in performance of E5000 between KA3/S9 and Megatron is as far as the gap between apple dongle and KA3/S9, IMHO. Great deal for a niche product.


I don't know whether to congratulate you (early) or hang my head in shame... 

I suspect with the way they have set up the switches on those MD4s (that actually change impedance) there are probably some discrepancies in the numbers given. Or it could just be a QC issue (in your favor this time). Remember @DBaldock9 received some Smabat buds that were actually 300ohms (IIRC) but were supposed to be 150ohms?!

Do you run the Ka3/S9 off of your phone? If that is the case, I would bet "dollars to dozens" the battery capacities are different on your phone than is in the Megatron. Yes, it DOES indeed sound like a fine DAC/amp for the price. 

I was surprised that my DX300 NEVER gets even warm (even when playing DSD files constantly), but plug it in to charge while also playing some (Redbook or higher) music, and it does get a bit toasty. But I would expect this, since I am using QC3 or PD2.


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> Do you run the Ka3/S9 off of your phone? If that is the case, I would bet "dollars to dozens" the battery capacities are different on your phone than is in the Megatron. Yes, it DOES indeed sound like a fine DAC/amp for the price.



I hear worse performance of KA3 from my iPhone than Android phone, possibly due to current limitation of the port? All of my dongles are louder on iPad and Macbook. 



samandhi said:


> I suspect with the way they have set up the switches on those MD4s (that actually change impedance) there are probably some discrepancies in the numbers given. Or it could just be a QC issue (in your favor this time).


Possibly. Is is possible to use a multimeter to measure impedance between, say R and G? 

I doubt that they would cherry pick stuffs to a small time reviewer. In fact, I just realised today that 50% of my review samples are defective


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> They never replied back to me. I think my email woke them up though, because shortly afterwards their AE and regular web site got updated with new information. I just happen to look at their AE store and saw they made changes and grabbed the images.
> 
> I've been super busy and other things happened in my life lately, so no time. I'll also be on the road these coming weeks, so will only visit the forum when I get a chance.
> 
> ...


Oh WOW! Seems pretty rude to me...  But glad they at least (apparently) heard you. 

Yeah, I have been pretty busy of late also. OH! I remember the days of being on the road (living in a hotel all but 8 days a month). I don't envy you bro. 

WOW! You are all in then... haha It really sucks for me, because I REALLY like them, and the sound isn't terrible... Adding that felt as an extra layer really did help though. I can at least listen to them (on certain types of music that I couldn't before). 

That IS pretty sad, but I (again) go back to the design, because all of the drivers are actually pretty excellent IMO; better than indicated by putting them in the M4 anyhow. I also can't believe the amount of difference in sound between the M4 and the M2s Pro with the same drivers in them. 


o0genesis0o said:


> Same here. Funny enough, those BA drivers are not even Knowles or Sonion. They are made by Bellsing.
> 
> *Btw, I found adding thicker filter rather than removing filter helps reduce the ear gain.*


Oh, you just HAVE to be different don't you?


----------



## o0genesis0o (Oct 12, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Oh WOW! Seems pretty rude to me...  But glad they at least (apparently) heard you.
> 
> Yeah, I have been pretty busy of late also. OH! I remember the days of being on the road (living in a hotel all but 8 days a month). I don't envy you bro.
> 
> ...



I have measurement to prove mate 

The more I close off that bass port, the flatter the frequency becomes. Opening the port feels like adding a shelf EQ with high Q value (or low?), you know, the one that makes one side go very high and then there is a big dip right after. The big dip is right at around 1kHz. In some sense, the tuning is kind of similar to tuning a bell shell ear buds. Still, with one channel completely different from the other side, there is not much I can test. Smabat is sending a new set over, so I hope that I can finally do some review of these buds.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> @FranQL makes some of the best. Congrats on your new shiny!
> 
> Som pix would be splendid, good sir?!



Ask and you shall receive. I swear when I get some extra time one of these days I'm gonna go in to get a new phone so I don't have to keep using my old phone to take pictures. I get any Moto flagship or equally priced phone free from Verizon because Moto hasn't been able to fix the camera problem on mine lol! Now I just need to figure out which one to get...

Anyways, may I present the @FranQL 600ohm Blue Voodoo*!










*Note: I made up the Blue Voodoo name for these because I think it's fitting as there is a certain vibe to these buds that I'm finding to be quite unique and addicting and, as of yet, I have been unable to put my finger on it. What I do know is that these are some good buds!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> They never replied back to me. I think my email woke them up though, because shortly afterwards their AE and regular web site got updated with new information. I just happen to look at their AE store and saw they made changes and grabbed the images.
> 
> I've been super busy and other things happened in my life lately, so no time. I'll also be on the road these coming weeks, so will only visit the forum when I get a chance.
> 
> ...



My M4 and its drivers will have a new home next weekend when I go to visit a friend and fellow earbud enthusiast in San Fran. He's interested in experimenting with them and we have several other items were swapping between the two of us. It's nice having a couple guys close to me who are into buds and have some different tastes. It has made trading and selling pretty easy as I have been building my collection.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> I hear worse performance of KA3 from my iPhone than Android phone, possibly due to current limitation of the port? All of my dongles are louder on iPad and Macbook.


Yeah, that is usually the case with iPhones sadly. 


o0genesis0o said:


> Possibly. Is is possible to use a multimeter to measure impedance between, say R and G?
> 
> I doubt that they would cherry pick stuffs to a small time reviewer. In fact, I just realised today that 50% of my review samples are defective


You won't be able to do it with JUST a multimeter. This quote from Headphones.com says it pretty succinctly:



			
				Headphones.com said:
			
		

> *Impedance Measurement*​*
> 
> *
> 
> ...



Which, BTW! I forgot about the last part of the last paragraph as being a potential issue with driving your Andros on a battery powered device or why they seem harder to drive with some things; current. Generally, batteries aren't able to output a ton of amps (especially while trying to operate whatever microprocessor they might have).


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> Yeah, that is usually the case with iPhones sadly.
> 
> You won't be able to do it with JUST a multimeter. This quote from Headphones.com says it pretty succinctly:
> 
> ...



That might explain why Andro does not sound as good with apple dongle comparing to something like BTR5 or KA3  Maybe I should look at the schematic of an amp and review Ohm’s law and stuffs to try and understand properly how amps work rather than sitting around and speculate.

Anyhow, all of this discussions about sources remind me of Tom from Dunu, who said something along the line that making products for the most detail oriented customer base in the world is not exactly a good way to become rich


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> I have measurement to prove mate
> 
> The more I close off that bass port, the flatter the frequency becomes. Opening the port feels like adding a shelf EQ with high Q value (or low?), you know, the one that makes one side go very high and then there is a big dip right after. The big dip is right at around 1kHz. In some sense, the tuning is kind of similar to tuning a bell shell ear buds. Still, with one side completely different from the other side, there is not much I can test. Smabat is sending a new set over, so I hope that I can finally do some review of these buds.


Well, if you prove those measurements, you will have proven their own chart wrong... LOL They seem to be dropping the ball a lot lately. 

I wish I could agree or disagree with you, but honestly, it is so strong (for me) in the ear gain that it would have to drastically change in order for me to hear a difference. I'm sure there IS, but I just can't hear it. I will just have to live vicariously through you on this matter. I remain very interested though. 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> Ask and you shall receive. I swear when I get some extra time one of these days I'm gonna go in to get a new phone so I don't have to keep using my old phone to take pictures. I get any Moto flagship or equally priced phone free from Verizon because Moto hasn't been able to fix the camera problem on mine lol! Now I just need to figure out which one to get...
> 
> Anyways, may I present the @FranQL 600ohm Blue Voodoo*!
> 
> ...


Those look fantastic (as usual for him)! I also think that is a very fitting name, and I am sure he loves the name. 

Both sets that he made for me (FQL Blackhole Redux, and FQL Grand Finale) I named also. The Blackhole Redux were named as such because he scavenged his own personal Blackhole buds to make mine (reworked of course). And the Grand Finale were named such because they were to be the last ones that he made for others, and they are indeed grand in sound (I knew he couldn't stay away from that though; he is just too kindhearted to stop). 

P.S. Your pictures are fine as far as I am concerned...


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> That might explain why Andro does not sound as good with apple dongle comparing to something like BTR5 or KA3  Maybe I should look at the schematic of an amp and review Ohm’s law and stuffs to try and understand properly how amps work rather than sitting around and speculate.
> 
> Anyhow, all of this discussions about sources remind me of Tom from Dunu, who said something along the line that making products for the most detail oriented customer base in the world is not exactly a good way to become rich


Other than studying specifics, you really only need to know that less voltage requires more current, and vice versa, to be able to make an educated guess/diagnoses on some of these issues. The big exception to this rule is planar drivers. The current needed to drive them properly is an unknown, since manufactures don't publish this, and cannot be figured by using a power calculator. Most of my planar head gear has better numbers on paper than some of medium hard to drive stuff (like mobile friendly type of numbers), but because they require more current, they are much harder to drive than "on paper" indicates. 

A perfect "for instance" would be the Tinhifi P1. They are only 22ohms @108dB/mW. One would think they would be REALLY easy to drive. In fact, they are as hard to drive as 300ohm drivers. On my DX160 (1.2W) I have to turn the volume up to about 75% on high gain to get a normal listening level (not even super loud). All the reviews on them agree that they are really hard to drive.


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I already spoke to him about bringing his B4-X. Does it matter that his is a B4-X and not the B4?


Mine is actually a B4X So that works perfectly well for me.


samandhi said:


> Or, @Ronion if you just want a really good amp (no DAC), I might suggest something like the Shiit Magni 3+B which puts out 2.4W @32ohms for $125. This is the same amount of power that my DX300 puts out with the Amp12 card in it, and I can tell you that it drives 600ohm buds VERY well IMO...
> 
> Pretty much anything from Shiit would be a great portable desktop solution IMO. Also there is Bottlehead, as well as quite a few others that might offer a solution to you...


I have a Valhalla 2, Asgard 2, and a JDSLabs Atom.  They all do the 5 and 600 justice.  I have one in every room I listen to headphones in.  I seem to remember this post as being much longer this morning and it had a lot of interesting commentary….  Somehow it looks to have largely disappeared since this morning when I put this in my quote box.


ian91 said:


> Schiit Valhalla 2 + 600Bery = my happy place , and I much prefer it to what the Shanling M8 can put out. Potential candidates for 'portable/transportable heaven' on my radar are the ifi Diablo (not a huge fan of Burr Brown sound), FiiO Q7 and now you've pointed it out, the DX300. Just have to find the money...!


We have the same happy place!  I love that amp with these—both the 5 and 600…


samandhi said:


> Yeah, if I were looking for a desktop solution and didn't have the money for a WooAudio, or a Cayin C9, Shiit would probably be on the top of my radar. I have read really good things about all the Valhalla series too.
> 
> I think that because a lot of manufacturers are now focusing on portable and making their head gear low impedance, most of even some of the biggest names are not throwing a ton of power into their amp sections. M8 has a really good and musical sound but isn't as powerful as others out there. This has been what has always made me like iBasso products. Their value/performance compared to other flagships models is pretty insane if you look at all of it. Having said that, if it weren't so damned expensive, I might have actually gone with the Cayin N8II otherwise (until I heard the iBasso sound).
> 
> ...


I live right down the road from TI and remember when it was Nat Semi and everyone was gainclone crazy 😜.   I know they’re not really a major player at the moment, but I know a few of the fine folks there and they are capable.  

I’ve gotta go back and read your previous post.  I remember seeing a lot of facts and figures in there, but you’ve got me thinking.  I’ve always wanted a DAP and haven’t had once since the old Sansa Clip and some older Sansa model that had a FM radio.  They don’t have the SQ I enjoy now, but they are still interesting just for their place in my personal history.  Thank you for all your help!  Great to see you around.


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Thanks again for the present, brother! These buds sound great and, even better, they were made by one heck of a guy! These are the best surprise I have gotten in a long time.
> 
> To @Ronion re drivability: These 600ohm beasts that @FranQL sent me are teminated in 2.5mm balanced so plugged into the 2.5mm jack on the Megatron I need less than 20% of the volume to get them to where I'm listening to them right now as I rock out to some Long Distance Calling. When I plug the 2.5mm into an adapter and use these buds on the 3.5mm single ended output on the Megatron I'm still using less than half of the available power on tap. Not only is the music loud enough, but the buds have a rich, full sound with plenty of control and detail. They pair extremely well with Fran's 600ohm creations.
> 
> I am leaving for the studio shortly and my bassist is bringing the B4-X so I'll test the two side by side to get an idea of their relative driving power.


Awesome!  Thank you!  It sounds like it has all I need.

On another note, There’s a recording of a Brahms Concerto that I’ve listened to many times and I’ve never been able to make out what a distant instrument was on any earbud.  Well today I was listening through the 500 Ohm driver and it’s clearly and obviously a cello.  That’s cool.  I think I just figured out what bud I’m going to make tonight…


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> Other than studying specifics, you really only need to know that less voltage requires more current, and vice versa, to be able to make an educated guess/diagnoses on some of these issues. The big exception to this rule is planar drivers. The current needed to drive them properly is an unknown, since manufactures don't publish this, and cannot be figured by using a power calculator. Most of my planar head gear has better numbers on paper than some of medium hard to drive stuff (like mobile friendly type of numbers), but because they require more current, they are much harder to drive than "on paper" indicates.
> 
> A perfect "for instance" would be the Tinhifi P1. They are only 22ohms @108dB/mW. One would think they would be REALLY easy to drive. In fact, they are as hard to drive as 300ohm drivers. On my DX160 (1.2W) I have to turn the volume up to about 75% on high gain to get a normal listening level (not even super loud). All the reviews on them agree that they are really hard to drive.



Sorry for being dense, but I have always been wondering whether it is possible for one amp to output more current than voltage and the other output more voltage than current into a transducer, and both reach the same power rating? I remember from high school that P = UI = R I^2 = U^2 / R. If R is known, P is known, and U is known, then wouldn’t I be “locked into place”, that’s why no one reports U or I independently, just P?

Apparently, Fiio KA3 is supposed to be one of the strongest dongle on paper (120mW@32 single ended, 240mW@32 balanced), but I noticed that in real-world tests, OspreyAndy found that KA3 is actually under-powered comparing to S9 Pro, which has less power on paper.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> Awesome!  Thank you!  It sounds like it has all I need.
> 
> On another note, There’s a recording of a Brahms Concerto that I’ve listened to many times and I’ve never been able to make out what a distant instrument was on any earbud.  Well today I was listening through the 500 Ohm driver and it’s clearly and obviously a cello.  That’s cool.  I think I just figured out what bud I’m going to make tonight…



Okay so both single ended and balanced the Megatron is more powerful than the B4-X. I will add one caveat which is that my buddy has the Muses02 op amps in his ATM. He says that it didn't make any noticeable difference in power from the B4, but I figured it might be worth mentioning for the sake of full disclosure since it's not stock.


----------



## Ronion

Seems like the Megatron is winner for this use case.  I guess it is exactly what it was designed to do.  Thanks Brother!  I really appreciate it!


----------



## dsonance

Ronion said:


> Seems like the Megatron is winner for this use case.  I guess it is exactly what it was designed to do.  Thanks Brother!  I really appreciate it!


Looking at the Megatron numbers along with the BTR7 ones, it appears Megatron would do worse driving something like Yinman, Alpha and Tantalus.

Megatron:


samandhi said:


> So, looking that numbers for that set of buds it is no wonder that the Megatron can push it (and I would agree that it does excite the drivers properly). They are 600ohms (as you already know), but they are fairly sensitive also (100dB/mW) making them much easier to drive than the Yinmans.
> 
> Megatron power output @600ohms:
> 
> ...


BTR7:


samandhi said:


> As for the science, to be honest, it is not going to be exact but only ideal numbers because most manufacturers either inflate or leave out numbers (in the weak spots) to make them appear better than they really are. Having said that, here are the numbers I found for the BTR7:
> 
> Power output @600 (according to their numbers):
> 
> ...


Despite my initial impression that Yinman 600 was just fine with BTR7, I later found tracks where it definitely could use more power - even though I never set the volume higher than just a bit over 50%. I suspect, the same would be true for Tantalus and Alpha.

Perhaps other 600 Ohm drivers are more sensitive, though.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

dsonance said:


> Looking at the Megatron numbers along with the BTR7 ones, it appears Megatron would do worse driving something like Yinman, Alpha and Tantalus.
> 
> Megatron:
> 
> ...




This is actually what @Ronion and I were discussing earlier. The numbers reported for the Megatron have to be flat out wrong. I own the BTR7 and the Megatron and the Megatron is significantly more powerful on both single ended and balanced outputs. When I said in another post that if the Megatron's reported numbers are accurate then at least two devices I own have significantly inflated power numbers, I was referring to the BTR7 and the Cayin RU6. 

I actually think that, for whatever reason, the Megatron's numbers are wrong because the BTR7 and RU6 match up pretty well to other similarly powered devices, while the Megatron drives transducers that it's numbers would suggest it shouldn't be able to drive nearly as well as it does. I don't know how or why this would have happened and when I get a bit more free time at home, I'll dig out my meter and measure it. Unscientific comparative testing of quite a few devices with similar reported numbers and greater reported numbers and how well and how loudly they drive various high impedance and/ornlow sensitivity transducers is the best I can do for now.

To @Ronion : You're welcome and I'm glad I could help. You know I got you, bro!


----------



## dsonance (Oct 13, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> This is actually what @Ronion and I were discussing earlier. The numbers reported for the Megatron have to be flat out wrong. I own the BTR7 and the Megatron and the Megatron is significantly more powerful on both single ended and balanced outputs. When I said in another post that if the Megatron's reported numbers are accurate then at least two devices I own have significantly inflated power numbers, I was referring to the BTR7 and the Cayin RU6.
> 
> I actually think that, for whatever reason, the Megatron's numbers are wrong because the BTR7 and RU6 match up pretty well to other similarly powered devices, while the Megatron drives transducers that it's numbers would suggest it shouldn't be able to drive nearly as well as it does. I don't know how or why this would have happened and when I get a bit more free time at home, I'll dig out my meter and measure it. Unscientific comparative testing of quite a few devices with similar reported numbers and greater reported numbers and how well and how loudly they drive various high impedance and/ornlow sensitivity transducers is the best I can do for now.
> 
> To @Ronion : You're welcome and I'm glad I could help. You know I got you, bro!


For reference, here's Amir's measurements for BTR7 (reading over 5.7Vrms at 600Ω, and 83mW at 300Ω): https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/fiio-btr7-review-portable-dac-hp-amp.36620/

Maybe one day he'll measure the Megatron... But I have a feeling I just might have to get it before that happens 

Btw, @JAnonymous5150, are you testing BTR7 with the balanced boost setting turned on? That's what I've been using.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

dsonance said:


> For reference, here's Amir's measurements for BTR7 (reading over 5.7Vrms at 600Ω, and 83mW at 300Ω): https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/fiio-btr7-review-portable-dac-hp-amp.36620/
> 
> Maybe one day he'll measure the Megatron... But I have a feeling I might have to get it before that happens
> 
> Btw, @JAnonymous5150, are you testing BTR7 with the balanced boost setting turned on? That's what I've been using.



For the sake of a more "equal" comparison I left the boost off when trying to figure their power relative to one another. As I remember though, even with the boost on the Megatron had more headroom when driving the HD800S. I'll check when I make it home to make sure and I'll update you.

On a side note, I like the BTR7 alot too. When I only had the BTR5 I loved the convenience, but I sometimes found myself wanting more power for certain applications. The BTR7 has basically fixed that while still remaining small enough to be useful in the same applications as the BTR5. The BTR7 is certainly a more versatile device than the Megatron which is basically designed to do one thing very well.


----------



## o0genesis0o

dsonance said:


> Maybe one day he'll measure the Megatron... But I have a feeling I just might have to get it before that happens


Ooh, I can already predict the result: headless panther (poor). And I can also predict what his followers say in the following comments (Apple dongle would likely be mentioned here and there, with audiofool and “subjective” thrown around)


----------



## Ronion

I think the Megatron is interesting.  Every report I read basically seems to say that it sounds like it has more power than it claims.  I wonder if it works out as well with an iPhone?  For some reason, my iPad supposedly has the same chip as the dongle, but the dongle seems to have less power.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> I think the Megatron is interesting.  Every report I read basically seems to say that it sounds like it has more power than it claims.  I wonder if it works out as well with an iPhone?  For some reason, my iPad supposedly has the same chip as the dongle, but the dongle seems to have less power.



The Megatron has a custom op amp designed and manufactured by VE for the Megatron. It doesn't rely on amplification from the chip. There are pics if the internals on the Megatron thread so you can see what I'm talking about. There's also a YouTube video where Wild Lee talks about the custom op amp and how the designed and developed it specifically to provide the highest amplification they could achieve with OTG power constraints and limited battery consumption.

The big silver rectangle houses the op amp. Second pic shows close-up of "VECLAN" manufacturers markings.










Photo credit: First pic is from Headphonesty and second is from head-fi but I'll have to run down who when I'm not rushing (sorry to the photographer for now).


----------



## baskingshark

o0genesis0o said:


> Same here. Funny enough, those BA drivers are not even Knowles or Sonion. They are made by Bellsing.



Well my 2 cents is that the driver brand (or for that matter, driver count/type) is secondary to tuning and implementation.

FWIW, I've tried some so called Knowles BAs that sounded bad, and some that contained Bellsings sounded better.


Even TOTL IEMs use Bellsings - 
https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/cxqlje/knowles_files_claim_with_us_trade_commission_to/
https://www.businesswire.com/news/h...-page decision,balanced armature (BA) devices.

From this lawsuit, the judge inadvertently released info that JH, Campfire, CTM etc used Bellsings in their TOTL models LOL. The ethics of it are one thing - eg buying a Ferrari and realizing the engine inside is a cheap Cherry QQ engine - but if these companies and their engineers managed to get good sound from these cheaper Bellsings, that speaks volumes (no pun intended).


----------



## o0genesis0o

baskingshark said:


> Well my 2 cents is that the driver brand (or for that matter, driver count/type) is secondary to tuning and implementation.
> 
> FWIW, I've tried some so called Knowles BAs that sounded bad, and some that contained Bellsings sounded better.
> 
> ...



Agree. Fiio FH3 and CFA Satsuma use “custom Knowles drivers” and they are some of the most textureless IEMs I have ever heard.

I remember when I first started, multi BA sets feel so high tech and fancy. Nowadays: “Multi BA? We are going to have BA bass, aren’t we “ (of course I wouldn’t say no to a U12t though)


On an unrelated note, I haven’t seen such nagging like this from an OTA update app before (Shanling UP4 2022)


----------



## barato

JAnonymous5150 said:


> The Megatron has a custom op amp designed and manufactured by VE for the Megatron. It doesn't rely on amplification from the chip. There are pics if the internals on the Megatron thread so you can see what I'm talking about. There's also a YouTube video where Wild Lee talks about the custom op amp and how the designed and developed it specifically to provide the highest amplification they could achieve with OTG power constraints and limited battery consumption.
> 
> The big silver rectangle houses the op amp. Second pic shows close-up of "VECLAN" manufacturers markings.
> 
> ...


The big rectangle look like an oscillator to me, and is also marked as such (TCXO). The 9018 chip normally uses an oscillator so would make sense that is it.


----------



## drewbadour

jogawag said:


> Does anyone have earbuds using the SR PRO driver which is a new version of the SR2 driver?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32252667305.html
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=20039954602
> 
> ...


Digging up this super old post but I'm interested in the SR Pro driver - just wondering if you know if this is the same thing or if its the SR2?


----------



## jogawag (Oct 13, 2022)

drewbadour said:


> Digging up this super old post but I'm interested in the SR Pro driver - just wondering if you know if this is the same thing or if its the SR2?


At the time, I thought the SR Pro driver and SR2 driver might be better than the Docomo driver, but now I think the Docomo driver is better.

I'm sorry but please forget my old 3 year old post you found.


----------



## drewbadour

jogawag said:


> At the time, I thought the SR Pro driver and SR2 driver might be better than the Docomo driver, but now I think the Docomo driver is better.
> 
> I'm sorry but please forget my old 3 year old post you found.


Oooh ok!

Is there a premade with the driver btw like there is with the SR Pro btw?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

barato said:


> The big rectangle look like an oscillator to me, and is also marked as such (TCXO). The 9018 chip normally uses an oscillator so would make sense that is it.



I thought the same thing, but it was identified as such in the video I watched. That's where I took my information from. I'll see if I can track it down when I have a break a little later on. I don't have the technical expertise to know any of these things on my own.


----------



## Ronion (Oct 13, 2022)

Since I’m doing more overtime this week, I’ve decided to get a Megatron.  Anyone know if it comes with a Decepticon decal?  Asking for a friend.


----------



## ttorbic

Ronion said:


> Since I’m doing more overtime this week, I’ve decided to get a Megatron.  Any change it comes with a Decepticon decal?  Asking for a friend.


Sadly not, but you could get one 3D printed


----------



## samandhi (Oct 13, 2022)

Ronion said:


> I have a Valhalla 2, Asgard 2, and a JDSLabs Atom. They all do the 5 and 600 justice. I have one in every room I listen to headphones in.


Apologies! I must have misread your OG post:



Spoiler






Ronion said:


> Okay, so who’s using the Megatron and what do you think of it?  I’m reading a bunch of good reviews, but the specs don’t look that impressive to me.  I’m also used to the FiiO e12MB and A5 along with the B4x.  So I’m used to having a lot of power on tap.  Any other recommendations for high impedance earbuds?  I don’t mind if they have an internal battery if it’s improved performance.  What I really want is just one cable going straight into the device and the ability to drive the 500 and 600Be buds to their fullest.  It would be an added bonus if it’s possible to make phone calls with it and it has to be compatible with the iPhone.  Some education on the science of how much power is possible with a dongle that lacks a battery would be much appreciated as well.  Where is @samandhi?  He’s my “go to” for matters of electronics.  I know that using my Hidizs S8 beats the pants off of the iPhone dongle and even my other 2V dongle interestingly enough, but I’m betting there is a significant upgrade to be had.  Thanks in advance “bud”dies!





and thought you were asking for recs for a replacement/upgrade to be able to drive hard to drive (high impedance) head gear. I wasn't sure what type of replacement you were looking for, so gave examples in dongle, DAC/amp, amp, and DAP for your convenience good sir...  You seem to already have some really good equipment on hand though.. 



			
				Ronion said:
			
		

> I seem to remember this post as being much longer this morning and it had a lot of interesting commentary…. Somehow it looks to have largely disappeared since this morning when I put this in my quote box.


Were you talking about this (the post before the one you quoted) maybe? https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-17189400



o0genesis0o said:


> Sorry for being dense, but I have always been wondering whether it is possible for one amp to output more current than voltage and the other output more voltage than current into a transducer, and both reach the same power rating? I remember from high school that P = UI = R I^2 = U^2 / R. If R is known, P is known, and U is known, then wouldn’t I be “locked into place”, that’s why no one reports U or I independently, just P?


You are not being dense at all my friend.

Yes because if you multiply volts x current, you will arrive at power (watts). And in a normal scenario you would see as voltage drops, amperage increases. This normally leads to the roughly the same amount of power (provided wire is big enough, length is good, etc...).

You are correct, except that planars might be the exception. Because of the make-up of the driver, it can keep a consistent voltage (unlike DDs where there is a voltage swing) but will raise/lower current due to reactance which is inductance and/or capacitance, in this case inductance or magnetic rather than electrical or:

```
X = XL + XC; in our case it is just X = XL

Where:
           X  = reactance
           XL = Inductance
           XC = Capacitance
```
Amp manufacturers don't really need to worry about this, but (ortho) headphone makers need to list this number (IMO) as it will give the information needed to figure out whether you need amp a, or amp b to drive them properly. Bottom line is that we have most of the picture with orthos, but we are lacking all the variables to know the full information. With DDs we have enough information.

Though you SHOULD check my logic, as I am still learning this stuff myself (ALWAYS)... 


dsonance said:


> Looking at the Megatron numbers along with the BTR7 ones, it appears Megatron would do worse driving something like Yinman, Alpha and Tantalus.
> 
> Megatron:
> 
> ...


Yes, you are correct. And assuming that most of the buds you are referring to are using the same driver that our Hermano @FranQL uses, they are much more efficient (100dB/mW) than the Yinman are (93dB/mW)... As a matter of fact (IIRC) a rep stated that they are actually only 87dB/mW as opposed to the stated 93dB/mW listed on the purchase site.

Though it is also possible that the others were right insomuch as the Megatron numbers are under-represented (or a bit of both) because I can drive my Yinman to distortion levels (volume) using my lowly FiiO E17K (2.4Vrms) when there is no way that SHOULD happen according to FiiO's own numbers. This really shocked me BTW, a very unassuming, not very powerful micro amp driving these 600ohm buds SO much louder than even my 2W DAP can drive them...


----------



## drewbadour (Oct 13, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Yes, you are correct. And assuming that most of the buds you are referring to are using the same driver that our Hermano @FranQL uses, they are much more efficient (100dB/mW) than the Yinman are (93dB/mW)... As a matter of fact (IIRC) a rep stated that they are actually only 87dB/mW as opposed to the stated 93dB/mW listed on the purchase site.


Yeah 87dB/mW is what the rep told me after I spent 3 days trying to get more info about the driver from them. But after spending a while ab-ing Yinman with another 600bery bud I have, I'm convinced that the rep didn't give out the actual number and that Yinman is actually just using the 600bery that we all know and love. They have uncannily similar timbral characteristics and quirks and I would be shocked if they were different.


----------



## samandhi

drewbadour said:


> Yeah 87dB/mW is what the rep told me after I spent 3 days trying to get more info about the driver from them but after a while ab-ing Yinman with another 600bery bud I have, I'm convinced that the rep didn't give out the actual number and that Yinman is actually just using the 600bery. They have uncannily similar timbral characteristics and quirks and would be shocked if they were different.


That would explain why I can get such volume from my FiiO device (2.4Vrms). Having said that, they do scale better with more power (to my ears). 

In all honesty, if the Yinman had a removeable cable, they would be nigh on perfect for me. That is really the only thing I don't like about them (even though it isn't actually a deal breaker).


----------



## FranQL

drewbadour said:


> Yeah 87dB/mW is what the rep told me after I spent 3 days trying to get more info about the driver from them but after a while ab-ing Yinman with another 600bery bud I have, I'm convinced that the rep didn't give out the actual number and that Yinman is actually just using the 600bery. They have uncannily similar timbral characteristics and quirks and would be shocked if they were different.



knowing the truth is really simple....you just have to open it.....


----------



## barato (Oct 13, 2022)

I wouldnt put too much weight in amp power specs unless the power levels you will be using are at or near the spec.

For example, lower power output on paper could mean an amp will clip (run out of voltage) before the other which I suspect is the case here (actually I just checked and this is the case), but you could have the beefiest discrete class A amp you can imagine with a little less voltage swing than the wimpiest op amp you can imagine, the beefy amp would clip sooner and technically have less power output capability but I can guarantee it would sound and drive your headphones 100 times better. 
In other words, the spec tells you quantity rather than quality of power.


----------



## samandhi

FranQL said:


> knowing the truth is really simple....you just have to open it.....


This is so true!


----------



## samandhi (Oct 13, 2022)

barato said:


> I wouldnt put too much weight in amp power specs unless the power levels you will be using are at or near the spec.
> 
> For example, lower power output on paper could mean an amp will clip (run out of voltage) before the other, but you could have the beefiest discrete class A amp you can imagine with a little less voltage swing than the wimpiest op amp you can imagine, the beefy amp would clip sooner and technically have less power output capability but I can guarantee it would sound and drive your headphones 100 times better.


I agree with this... except it is actually the point of this particular conversation. Finding a decently priced unit that will drive some really high impedance gear.. 

Though another factor comes into play for portable also and that is the battery. You may have enough power in the amp section to "over drive" the head gear, but if all of the battery (current) is being used to power the system, you may not have enough amperage to draw, which will lead to under driving just as much as if you have an underpowered amp to begin with.


----------



## drewbadour

FranQL said:


> knowing the truth is really simple....you just have to open it.....


LOL I actually typed out a sentence similar to this "will only know if we open it up." But I'm not handy enough to volunteer to be tribute


----------



## JAnonymous5150

drewbadour said:


> Yeah 87dB/mW is what the rep told me after I spent 3 days trying to get more info about the driver from them. But after spending a while ab-ing Yinman with another 600bery bud I have, I'm convinced that the rep didn't give out the actual number and that Yinman is actually just using the 600bery that we all know and love. They have uncannily similar timbral characteristics and quirks and I would be shocked if they were different.



Open it, open it, open it...😜


----------



## Ronion

That was the post @samandhi.  Thank you so much!  Very helpful.  You got me thinking (which can be problematic), but I’ve decided to just go with the Megatron.  I do want a DAP though.  I’ve wanted one for a long time.  The Megatron is just too good for the money.  I think it’s pretty cool of VE to offer such a device for the price.  Makes me want to buy one of their TOTL buds to go with it just for fun.  Worst case scenario I can run it into my A5 as well.  It doesn’t seem like I’ll need to though.  The A5 runs really well with 1V feeding it.  I can’t wait!

The bud I built last night was the 32Ohm Blue PET.  That driver has a spike in the response that is essentially impossible to defeat right in the lower treble.  This is likely a candidate for a faceplate transplant.  The transparent one can’t fix it.  For this type of response, I still prefer the LCPs by a large margin.  I crave drivers that are easy on the ears without being dull.  This one requires a lot of work for my tolerance of low treble spikes.


----------



## dsonance

samandhi said:


> Yes, you are correct. And assuming that most of the buds you are referring to are using the same driver that our Hermano @FranQL uses, they are much more efficient (100dB/mW) than the Yinman are (93dB/mW)... As a matter of fact (IIRC) a rep stated that they are actually only 87dB/mW as opposed to the stated 93dB/mW listed on the purchase site.
> 
> Though it is also possible that the others were right insomuch as the Megatron numbers are under-represented (or a bit of both) because I can drive my Yinman to distortion levels (volume) using my lowly FiiO E17K (2.4Vrms) when there is no way that SHOULD happen according to FiiO's own numbers. This really shocked me BTW, a very unassuming, not very powerful micro amp driving these 600ohm buds SO much louder than even my 2W DAP can drive them...





drewbadour said:


> Yeah 87dB/mW is what the rep told me after I spent 3 days trying to get more info about the driver from them. But after spending a while ab-ing Yinman with another 600bery bud I have, I'm convinced that the rep didn't give out the actual number and that Yinman is actually just using the 600bery that we all know and love. They have uncannily similar timbral characteristics and quirks and I would be shocked if they were different.


I'm not sure what the actual sensitivity of the Yinman 600 is, but I believe @tgx78 said that both Alpha and Tantalus were less than 90db/mW.


samandhi said:


> That would explain why I can get such volume from my FiiO device (2.4Vrms). Having said that, they do scale better with more power (to my ears).
> 
> In all honesty, if the Yinman had a removeable cable, they would be nigh on perfect for me. That is really the only thing I don't like about them (even though it isn't actually a deal breaker).


I really love mine as is. But I haven't heard TGXEAR stuff yet. I feel like I cannot decide on what perfection is, until I have.  

Regarding volume and scaling, it's interesting that the two are not directly related. I wonder what is the physics of this.


----------



## drewbadour

Ronion said:


> That was the post @samandhi.  Thank you so much!  Very helpful.  You got me thinking (which can be problematic), but I’ve decided to just go with the Megatron.  I do want a DAP though.  I’ve wanted one for a long time.  The Megatron is just too good for the money.  I think it’s pretty cool of VE to offer such a device for the price.  Makes me want to buy one of their TOTL buds to go with it just for fun.  Worst case scenario I can run it into my A5 as well.  It doesn’t seem like I’ll need to though.  The A5 runs really well with 1V feeding it.  I can’t wait!
> 
> The bud I built last night was the 32Ohm Blue PET.  That driver has a spike in the response that is essentially impossible to defeat right in the lower treble.  This is likely a candidate for a faceplate transplant.  The transparent one can’t fix it.  For this type of response, I still prefer the LCPs by a large margin.  I crave drivers that are easy on the ears without being dull.  This one requires a lot of work for my tolerance of low treble spikes.


OOC, is this the light blue or dark blue one?


----------



## Ronion (Oct 13, 2022)

drewbadour said:


> OOC, is this the light blue or dark blue one?


It’s the light blue one with the clear faceplate.  Most beautiful driver I’ve seen, but it’s very difficult to get the shape of the pinna gain into something that doesn’t bother me.  It’s a shame because it’s an expensive driver and this is the second shell I’ve tried to make it work in.  It has great extension on both ends however.  I’m going to do something else in that shell tonight, I just can’t decide what exactly.  Anyway, it’s the one driver I haven’t been able to tune to my liking.


----------



## drewbadour

Ronion said:


> It’s the light blue one with the clear faceplate.  Most beautiful driver I’ve seen, but it’s very difficult to get the shape of the pinna gain into something that doesn’t bother me.  It’s a shame because it’s an expensive driver and this is the second shell I’ve tried to make it work in.  It has great extension on both ends however.  I’m going to do something else in that shell tonight, I just can’t decide what exactly.  Anyway, it’s the one driver I haven’t been able to tune to my liking.


Oh nice!
Have you tried Qian39 shell?
Recently found out that the Qian39 shell fits 15.4mm drivers. Could be worth experimenting with.


----------



## samandhi (Oct 13, 2022)

Ronion said:


> That was the post @samandhi.  Thank you so much!  Very helpful.  You got me thinking (which can be problematic), but I’ve decided to just go with the Megatron.  I do want a DAP though.  I’ve wanted one for a long time.  The Megatron is just too good for the money.  I think it’s pretty cool of VE to offer such a device for the price.  Makes me want to buy one of their TOTL buds to go with it just for fun.  Worst case scenario I can run it into my A5 as well.  It doesn’t seem like I’ll need to though.  The A5 runs really well with 1V feeding it.  I can’t wait!
> 
> The bud I built last night was the 32Ohm Blue PET.  That driver has a spike in the response that is essentially impossible to defeat right in the lower treble.  This is likely a candidate for a faceplate transplant.  The transparent one can’t fix it.  For this type of response, I still prefer the LCPs by a large margin.  I crave drivers that are easy on the ears without being dull.  This one requires a lot of work for my tolerance of low treble spikes.


You are welcome. It seems as though you have made a good choice (from everyone's point of view). Your thinking is only problematic if it actually gets you into trouble.. LOL

I believe that at some point you will have a great DAP. Technology is getting so good now even the lowliest of DAPs are excellent. I just got a Shanling M0 and while it doesn't have much output power (80mW) it does EVERYTHING else... and it sounds pretty good too as long as you understand the limitations of what it can/can't power... 

I remember one point in time where you said you really liked the Smabat 32ohm driver also. Would liken this one to that, and if so I wonder how it would compare to the Smabat in the M2s Pro shell (in place of the Smabat version)?!

And, you said it better than I ever could, and in such a short statement when you said "I crave drivers that are easy on the ears without being dull." I wholeheartedly agree with you. It doesn't have to be all fun or all analytical, but normally I find a good mixture of the two to sound best to my ears. 


dsonance said:


> I'm not sure what the actual sensitivity of the Yinman 600 is, but I believe @tgx78 said that both Alpha and Tantalus were less than 90db/mW.
> 
> I really love mine as is. But I haven't heard TGXEAR stuff yet. I feel like I cannot decide on what perfection is, until I have.
> 
> Regarding volume and scaling, it's interesting that the two are not directly related. I wonder what is the physics of this.


That is interesting to know, and I would be curious to know the exact sensitivity that both of those use?! I know the ones that @FranQL use are 100dB/mW, so they might be different drivers if that is the case.

On any amplifier there is a (sort of) hidden number called Damping Factor (DF for short). Technically speaking, Damping Factor is the ratio of nominal driver impedance (the impedance the driver is rated at) to total output impedance of the system driving the driver, including the amplifier and cables. The higher the value the better it will be able to control the driver. Where it applies to your question is when the amp is underpowered for the head gear, and that DF rating goes out the window and proper damping will not occur even if the rating is sky high.

 The main effect of damping in a driver is to reduce the SPL produced by the driver's diaphragm moving because of its own inertia after the signal stops. Where this applies to your question is if you don't have enough power to "properly" drive the driver, inertia will keep the diaphragm moving when it is not supposed to and create noise or create overlap in sound, for instance. This is where you might hear "one note bass", or bad sounding treble, lack of separation, etc... The amount of power that is lacking will be proportionate to how much this effect is audible. And you will notice this in lower frequencies the most and/or first (normally).

So, in short, you can drive a driver very loud, but still not be able to dampen the driver enough to be "in control". This is where you will read people saying that an amp could drive a driver "properly" (or not).


----------



## baskingshark (Oct 14, 2022)

samandhi said:


> In all honesty, if the Yinman had a removeable cable, they would be nigh on perfect for me. That is really the only thing I don't like about them (even though it isn't actually a deal breaker).



Pardon my ignorance, but is the Yinman 600 ohm not detachable? I saw some photos on Aliexpress that is has MMCX?

Actually thinking of getting one during 11/11 if finances allow. But non-detachable cable buds/IEMS > $50 USD is a deal-breaker for me. Not only durability, but I would like to use aftermarket balanced cables or BT adapters.


----------



## drewbadour

baskingshark said:


> Pardon my ignorance, but is the Yinman 600 ohm not detachable? I saw some photos on Aliexpress that is has MMCX?
> 
> Actually thinking of getting one during 11/11 if finances allow. But non-detachable cable buds/IEMS > $50 USD is a deal-breaker for me. Not only durability, but I would like to use aftermarket balanced cables or BT adapters.


They haven't updated the picture. If you order it, they will message you with the actual picture 😅. The mmcx one isn't available anymore


----------



## baskingshark

drewbadour said:


> They haven't updated the picture. If you order it, they will message you with the actual picture 😅. The mmcx one isn't available anymore



Ah thanks for the info! Helped a lot!

Looks like I'd be giving it a miss then!


----------



## yaps66

baskingshark said:


> Ah thanks for the info! Helped a lot!
> 
> Looks like I'd be giving it a miss then!


Shame! With the right source, these are amazing!


----------



## syazwaned

baskingshark said:


> Pardon my ignorance, but is the Yinman 600 ohm not detachable? I saw some photos on Aliexpress that is has MMCX?
> 
> Actually thinking of getting one during 11/11 if finances allow. But non-detachable cable buds/IEMS > $50 USD is a deal-breaker for me. Not only durability, but I would like to use aftermarket balanced cables or BT adapters.


I used to have same reservation on Yinman mmcx as well..but tell you what, it is well worth an earbuds of 100 usd non detachable price point.

Provided you have the powerful amplifier for it.


----------



## oopeteroo

I'm looking for a new earbud for female vocal/asian-pop music/ballad/acoustic 
Can be with cable or tws. 
What's the best for female vocal ?
Price: 100usd/eur max. The less the better I guess?  Going to buy it during Black Friday or 11.11


----------



## syazwaned

oopeteroo said:


> I'm looking for a new earbud for female vocal/asian-pop music/ballad/acoustic
> Can be with cable or tws.
> What's the best for female vocal ?
> Price: 100usd/eur max. The less the better I guess?  Going to buy it during Black Friday or 11.11


Rikibuds Grand Archer


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> Ah thanks for the info! Helped a lot!
> 
> Looks like I'd be giving it a miss then!





yaps66 said:


> Shame! With the right source, these are amazing!


It is indeed a shame, as these are the best buds I have heard to date (short of @FranQL DIY/custom buds). But... there may be good news, as I have been reading how much others are liking the 600Be buds @tgx78 (and others) makes. There is even some debate that they might be using the same drivers. I would bet you could commission one of those people to do such a bud (though they would most likely not be wood, which gives some beautiful warm but never muddy resonance/timbre to the sound and is part of the allure of these). 

As for me, I just may purchase a second pair, and try and modify them to have MMXC connector on them, though I am not too sure I can do it because the stem looks to be too small in diameter to accomplish this.

Having said all of that, the cable on these is actually really good and very high quality (IMHO). It actually reminds me of some of the iBasso stock cables that people raved about when they were putting out one hit after another in IEMs. Plus, I ordered mine in 2.5mm balanced so that I can use the connector in any device I might want to. Even hating a "static" cable has not stopped me from totally enjoying these. But as usual YMMV, and I wouldn't blame you too much if you couldn't get over this issue. 


oopeteroo said:


> I'm looking for a new earbud for female vocal/asian-pop music/ballad/acoustic
> Can be with cable or tws.
> What's the best for female vocal ?
> Price: 100usd/eur max. The less the better I guess?  Going to buy it during Black Friday or 11.11


While I don't have the experience with the sheer amount of buds that I have listened to that someone like @JAnonymous5150 or @WoodyLuvr might have, I will offer my thoughts anyhow. I am assuming two things here; you want a set that has a boosted pina gain, and also a detachable cable?! If this is the truth, really most all of the budget "ChiFi" buds will have a boosted ear gain (some more than others). But a detachable cable is not as common, though there are lots out there to be had. 

If you can live with a fixed cable, the FiiO or the Yinman 2.0 600 might be the best you can get in this price range. You would definitely need some power to push the Yinmans though. 

If you just gotta' have the removable cable, I would suggest some Smabat buds. The M4 might do well for you (though they hurt my ears in this area), so I would suggest (IMO) that you try and get some M2s Pro, or the ST10S (B&G) which are fantastic. 

The M2s Pro have been discontinued, but you can still get them (just none of the drivers to change out with, unless you get lucky with a third party seller), but the ST10S B&G are still available from Smabat. 

Oh, and there is also the Yincrow Calf, but I didn't put them up there as a rec only because I have not heard them, nor heard any thoughts on them as of yet (other than someone simply saying that they are great). @WoodyLuvr is supposed to be getting a set and comparing them to the flagship RW series soon though.


----------



## dsonance

syazwaned said:


> I used to have same reservation on Yinman mmcx as well..but tell you what, it is well worth an earbuds of 100 usd non detachable price point.
> 
> Provided you have the powerful amplifier for it.


Same here. Really happy I decided to get them, despite the initial reservations.


----------



## baskingshark

samandhi said:


> As for me, I just may purchase a second pair, and try and modify them to have MMXC connector on them, though I am not too sure I can do it because the stem looks to be too small in diameter to accomplish this.



Wow I won't dare to do an MMCX mod on a $100+ earbud haha! I've no doubt that some of the DIY kings here in this thread can do it, but imagine screwing up and damaging it (it ain't a $1 Vido haha).

But the wooden shell and small stem as you say, make it look a bit difficult to mod. I am also afraid the wood will crack if you try to put in an MMCX connector.


----------



## qua2k

Taking a chance. I have a Moonbuds Super Nightingale V2 en route to me. I have heard very good things in the past and read some reviews online but not much recently. Build quality seems very very good. @WoodyLuvr and others, any opinions?


----------



## Stuff Jones

Just a heads up. I've been waiting a week for a response on a return request for my Chaconne from Apos Audio. Highly recommend avoiding them.


----------



## emusic13

qua2k said:


> Taking a chance. I have a Moonbuds Super Nightingale V2 en route to me. I have heard very good things in the past and read some reviews online but not much recently. Build quality seems very very good. @WoodyLuvr and others, any opinions?


Never heard his buds before but whenever I see photos, I always wonder if the heatshrink is that way on purpose or if he doesnt know how to use it 😅


----------



## mochill

Who has the toneking manba


----------



## Trzystatrzy

Any good earbuds with earpods shape?


----------



## Ronion

oopeteroo said:


> I'm looking for a new earbud for female vocal/asian-pop music/ballad/acoustic
> Can be with cable or tws.
> What's the best for female vocal ?
> Price: 100usd/eur max. The less the better I guess?  Going to buy it during Black Friday or 11.11


Maybe a SMABAT?


----------



## syazwaned

Trzystatrzy said:


> Any good earbuds with earpods shape?


K lbbs


----------



## mt877 (Oct 14, 2022)

oopeteroo said:


> I'm looking for a new earbud for female vocal/asian-pop music/ballad/acoustic
> Can be with cable or tws.
> What's the best for female vocal ?
> Price: 100usd/eur max. The less the better I guess?  Going to buy it during Black Friday or 11.11


Go with one of the favorites. FiiO FF3. Well within your budget. Nice controlled bass for acoustic richness which also plays well with ballads. Throw on the crisp donut foams for enhanced female vocal in k/j-pop. Good all-rounder that goes well with just about any genre of music you want to throw at it.


----------



## Ronion

Trzystatrzy said:


> Any good earbuds with earpods shape?


None that I am personally aware of.  From the 2 I’ve heard, I’d expect a reduced soundstage from them.  I think their function is too similar to a IEM to have the soundstage of a bud.  I could be wrong.


----------



## baskingshark

Wow looks like there's a first review for the Yincrow Calf here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/517665269706033/posts/662828298523062/

Seems to be a bass lite/brightish type tuning.


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> Wow looks like there's a first review for the Yincrow Calf here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/517665269706033/posts/662828298523062/
> 
> Seems to be a bass lite/brightish type tuning.


Interesting. I might be reading it wrong, but I didn't really get that it is bass light (other than compared to IEMS, which of course it will be). It sounds like they are tuned very much like the RW3000 (more mid bass than sub bass, boosted pina, airy treble). And IIRC the RW1000 were the bass model, so comparing to that one I would bet the RW2000 and RW3000 were also considered bass light??? I dunno' I suppose I won't know unless I purchase them (which I am not going to as of right now, but that may change). 

Thank you, sir for sharing this! I have been wanting to hear some reviews of this one.


----------



## digititus

samandhi said:


> Interesting. I might be reading it wrong, but I didn't really get that it is bass light (other than compared to IEMS, which of course it will be). It sounds like they are tuned very much like the RW3000 (more mid bass than sub bass, boosted pina, airy treble). And IIRC the RW1000 were the bass model, so comparing to that one I would bet the RW2000 and RW3000 were also considered bass light??? I dunno' I suppose I won't know unless I purchase them (which I am not going to as of right now, but that may change).
> 
> Thank you, sir for sharing this! I have been wanting to hear some reviews of this one.


The RW-1000 bass is more mid than sub bass. Still a touch on the analytical side, but with good staging. Under appreciated IMO. Solid all rounder


----------



## samandhi

digititus said:


> The RW-1000 bass is more mid than sub bass. Still a touch on the analytical side, but with good staging. Under appreciated IMO. Solid all rounder


Ah, thanks for clarifying, as I had only heard the RW2000 and RW3000. If that is the case, didn't they have one of their models that they labeled as "RWxxxx Bass"?

So, it seems as though this is pretty much Yincrow "house" tuning as they are all mid bass focused more than sub bass (some just more than the others), and it seems as though they didn't deviate too far from this with the Calf?! That is pretty good news though if you can get the same(ish) sound that you would get from their flagship models.


----------



## fooltoque

Notice anything?


----------



## yaps66

fooltoque said:


> Notice anything?


2.5mm?


----------



## o0genesis0o

fooltoque said:


> Notice anything?


Hey, you manage to buy the 2.5mm plug


----------



## fooltoque

Yup! 2.5mm plug. Thanks for the directions, @o0genesis0o


----------



## ttorbic

fooltoque said:


> Yup! 2.5mm plug. Thanks for the directions, @o0genesis0o


Nice! How do the FF3 compare to your Berserker 1?


----------



## fooltoque

ttorbic said:


> Nice! How do the FF3 compare to your Berserker 1?


Similar amounts of base. The Berzerkers feel a lot more smooth, while the FF3 feels impactful and dynamic. I really like percussion on the FF3, so I reach for them more often because I really like percussion. I go for the Berzerkers when I want to relax. You know, like relax in a berzerker kind of way


----------



## o0genesis0o

@Ronion I don’t know if you have ordered Megatron, but if you are still looking for portable dac amp, I can finally recommend Hidizs S9 Pro after extensive A/B test. 

That little dongle is even more powerful than Megatron when driving current intensive transducers like E5000. The midbass of E5000 is more pronounced with S9, without any mud or blur. Meanwhile, megatron has a bit less bass. It might be the case that Megatron does not like low impedance low sensitivity stuffs.

Will share more impressions when I get some 300ohm buds.


----------



## ttorbic

o0genesis0o said:


> @Ronion I don’t know if you have ordered Megatron, but if you are still looking for portable dac amp, I can finally recommend Hidizs S9 Pro after extensive A/B test.
> 
> That little dongle is even more powerful than Megatron when driving current intensive transducers like E5000. The midbass of E5000 is more pronounced with S9, without any mud or blur. Meanwhile, megatron has a bit less bass. It might be the case that Megatron does not like low impedance low sensitivity stuffs.
> 
> Will share more impressions when I get some 300ohm buds.


Ah this brings back unpleasant memories - lent my S9 pro to a friend but his entire bag got stolen on holiday  
Anyway, even though both the Megatron and the S9 Pro are dongles, is it possible that the S9 Pro squeezes more current out of the source? On paper, at least, the Megatron should have more power...


----------



## o0genesis0o

ttorbic said:


> Ah this brings back unpleasant memories - lent my S9 pro to a friend but his entire bag got stolen on holiday
> Anyway, even though both the Megatron and the S9 Pro are dongles, is it possible that the S9 Pro squeezes more current out of the source? On paper, at least, the Megatron should have more power...



 Losing gear is the worse. I lost my USB cable and an Apple dongle recently and I already feel bad. I hope that you managed to replace it with something nicer.


When I listen to E5000, I need to turn Megatron up way higher than S9 Pro. Quite strange. In any case, I think E5000 is outside the operation parameters of Megatron. I have a strange feeling that even some desktop amp like Topping DX3+ would struggle with E5000, given that the Topping clips at 32ohm and starts to freakout around 20ohm (based on what I read from Amir from ASR anyway, I don’t know much about these )

Both devices drive E5000 at least one step beyond Fiio KA3, meaning OspreyAndy‘s observation (Dongle Madness) is spot-on about the lack of driving power of KA3. 

I notice that my S9 Pro does not work with my iPhone (via Fiio cable). The light turns on, iPhone recognises S9 Pro, but it refuses to play music. It might be that the lightning output cannot provide enough current? Or it might just be the cable.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> @Ronion I don’t know if you have ordered Megatron, but if you are still looking for portable dac amp, I can finally recommend Hidizs S9 Pro after extensive A/B test.
> 
> That little dongle is even more powerful than Megatron when driving current intensive transducers like E5000. The midbass of E5000 is more pronounced with S9, without any mud or blur. Meanwhile, megatron has a bit less bass. It might be the case that Megatron does not like low impedance low sensitivity stuffs.
> 
> Will share more impressions when I get some 300ohm buds.


I think you are correct here in your assumption that the Megatron doesn't like lower impedance stuff. Here is a quote from VE:


			
				Venture Electronics said:
			
		

> “Warning ! Megatron is designed exclusively for “harder to drive stuff”, like our premium earbuds / all the proper full size headphones and a few IEMs, especially the planar IEMs, and this is NOT meant for those super easy to drive IEMS, it is just simply not designed for that~” – VE



I can't find anywhere that actually shows the output impedance, but one article says that: 





> NOT suitable for anything less than 64 Ohm or sensitivity above 105 dB





And I also could not find any sort of SNR rating (though I did find DNR, which isn't great). This is usually because it isn't great that they don't offer this information. 

As for the S9, I can find no output impedance on that either. The SNR rating is really good though on it @119 out of balanced. But on this dongle DNR is not mentioned. 

Having said that, the Megatron is actually double the power of the S9, but requires higher loads in order to function at its best, where the S9 drives lower impedance gear better. The reason that E5000 might sound better on the S9 is because they are only 14ohms @ 93dB/mW meaning that either amp only needs to provide at minimum (in order to reach 110dBSPL):


.84Vrms
51mW
60.4mA
And let's not forget synergy. No matter how much manufacturers try, an amplifier output has SOME "color" to it and is not completely flat/neutral in its output.


----------



## syazwaned

o0genesis0o said:


> @Ronion I don’t know if you have ordered Megatron, but if you are still looking for portable dac amp, I can finally recommend Hidizs S9 Pro after extensive A/B test.
> 
> That little dongle is even more powerful than Megatron when driving current intensive transducers like E5000. The midbass of E5000 is more pronounced with S9, without any mud or blur. Meanwhile, megatron has a bit less bass. It might be the case that Megatron does not like low impedance low sensitivity stuffs.
> 
> Will share more impressions when I get some 300ohm buds.


I used to have s9 pro, I finds Questyle m15 is an upgrade to S9 pro


----------



## o0genesis0o (Oct 17, 2022)

syazwaned said:


> I used to have s9 pro, I finds Questyle m15 is an upgrade to S9 pro


According to Reddit folks, Apple dongle is better than all of these. If you say otherwise, you are delusional and unscientific  

I’m not saying that S9 Pro is the best of everything, but it’s quite good. I’m listening to my DIY 64ohm buds now. In A/B tests, it’s very apparent that Megatron sounds different from S9 Pro, perhaps a bit less “weighty”. However, my brain “equalises” the sound quite quickly. I don’t think I can pass a blind test.


How much is the power drain of that M15? I have heard only good things about that dongle. Even hardcore “apple dongle only” guys like Precogvision have to admit that M15 is noticeably better.


@samandhi I found some measurements of S9 Pro from ASR here.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> I’m not saying that S9 Pro is the best of everything, but it’s quite good. I’m listening to my DIY 64ohm buds now. In A/B tests, it’s very apparent that Megatron sounds different from S9 Pro, perhaps a bit less “weighty”. However, my brain “equalises” the sound quite quickly. I don’t think I can pass a blind test.


Maybe not the best at everything, but it sounds like you have found something really good nonetheless in the S9 Pro (not an easy thing to do in a dongle IMO).


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> @samandhi I found some measurements of S9 Pro from ASR here.


WOW! That is a really good lil' device. Though I STILL didn't see the output impedance (unless I missed it somehow). I'm not sure it is totally relevant as it will drive the 14ohm drivers (apparently) very well. That makes me think that it has to be very low indeed. And, since it is made for lower impedance gear (minimum of 8ohms according to their site), I would assume it is probably equal to or less than 1ohm.


----------



## baskingshark

o0genesis0o said:


> According to Reddit folks, Apple dongle is better than all of these. If you say otherwise, you are delusional and unscientific
> 
> I’m not saying that S9 Pro is the best of everything, but it’s quite good. I’m listening to my DIY 64ohm buds now. In A/B tests, it’s very apparent that Megatron sounds different from S9 Pro, perhaps a bit less “weighty”. However, my brain “equalises” the sound quite quickly. I don’t think I can pass a blind test.
> 
> ...



M15 doesn't drain much battery actually, it is one of the more efficient dongles out there, considering the amount of power it has on tap.

Apple dongle is really quite nice for the 10 bucks entrance fee. Only thing is it can't power demanding gear, otherwise for most sensitive IEMs, it should be decent.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> @Ronion I don’t know if you have ordered Megatron, but if you are still looking for portable dac amp, I can finally recommend Hidizs S9 Pro after extensive A/B test.
> 
> That little dongle is even more powerful than Megatron when driving current intensive transducers like E5000. The midbass of E5000 is more pronounced with S9, without any mud or blur. Meanwhile, megatron has a bit less bass. It might be the case that Megatron does not like low impedance low sensitivity stuffs.
> 
> Will share more impressions when I get some 300ohm buds.


It’s ordered and shipped, but that’s good news about the S9.  My big concern though is with these high impedance monsters.


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> WOW! That is a really good lil' device. Though I STILL didn't see the output impedance (unless I missed it somehow). I'm not sure it is totally relevant as it will drive the 14ohm drivers (apparently) very well. That makes me think that it has to be very low indeed. And, since it is made for lower impedance gear (minimum of 8ohms according to their site), I would assume it is probably equal to or less than 1ohm.



I believe that output impedance of S9 should be < 1ohm, because I do not hear any frequency response shift with both Andromeda and Hidizs MD4 (8ohm). 

Btw, I have another conjecture for the difference in apparent sensitivity between Andromeda and Hidizs MD4. It might be the case that amps have trouble outputting power into 8ohm load comparing to the 13ohm load of Andromeda. In any case, Andromeda is louder than the MD4 with every sources that I test, despite having higher impedance and lower sensitivity. 



baskingshark said:


> Apple dongle is really quite nice for the 10 bucks entrance fee. Only thing is it can't power demanding gear, otherwise for most sensitive IEMs, it should be decent.



I think Apple dongle is actually best for moderately resistive gear (the latest version of wired EarPods is about 45ohm). I personally believe that driving Andromeda or even Blessing 2 with Apple dongle is a bit of a waste.

Btw, I just realised that you used to write review for audioreview.org   



Ronion said:


> It’s ordered and shipped, but that’s good news about the S9.  My big concern though is with these high impedance monsters.



Great! New toy coming for you soon. I still think that Megatron is a great choice, but I think I should correct myself about my initial statement "S9 cannot drive E5000". Most earbuds are not as weird as E5000, though. Megatron should be more suitable.


----------



## dsonance

fooltoque said:


> Similar amounts of base. The Berzerkers feel a lot more smooth, while the FF3 feels impactful and dynamic. I really like percussion on the FF3, so I reach for them more often because I really like percussion. I go for the Berzerkers when I want to relax. You know, like relax in a berzerker kind of way


Speaking of percussion, I've been just listening to Batucada Fantastica (here on Tidal), on both FF3 and the Berserker1.


----------



## thedjkhalid

Just received my TRN EMAs, ok buds (only like ~$9).  Very light, doesn't feel like I am wearing them.

Bass is anemic even for a bud I feel (using Hiegi foams).  On busy tracks, it feels like a train wreck.  And the "vent" on the bud feels like a fake vent, as only 7 very small dots are even "open".  Covering up the "vent" didn't really make a difference in sound to me.  Wondering if making an actual hole would help with some bass.  

Very much feel like it is a vocals only bud.  4KHz and 2KHz a bit boosted to make vocals sound unatural though.

But then again, this is just $9 and comes with a detachable 2pin cable.

On a side note, does anyone know what driver is possibly in the FENGRU DIY Tingo TC200 Pro Earbuds?  https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256...tewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt&_randl_shipto=US

I forgot I had them laying around and put a hole in them, and now they sound a little too good imo.  It previously had almost no bass, but now the bass hits very nicely and added so much soundstage.  Feels like they sound more than 2x better than before the "mod".


----------



## Ronion

thedjkhalid said:


> Just received my TRN EMAs, ok buds (only like ~$9).  Very light, doesn't feel like I am wearing them.
> 
> Bass is anemic even for a bud I feel (using Hiegi foams).  On busy tracks, it feels like a train wreck.  And the "vent" on the bud feels like a fake vent, as only 7 very small dots are even "open".  Covering up the "vent" didn't really make a difference in sound to me.  Wondering if making an actual hole would help with some bass.
> 
> ...


I don’t know, but I wouldn’t trust anything Tingo.  They changed the drivers on the TC200 before and on the TG38 more recently.  You just never know what you are going to get and it’s a shame because they’ve tend to start with very good drivers and then move to cheaper ones.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> I don’t know, but I wouldn’t trust anything Tingo.  They changed the drivers on the TC200 before and on the TG38 more recently.  You just never know what you are going to get and it’s a shame because they’ve tend to start with very good drivers and then move to cheaper ones.


Bottom line.... (nuff' said)


----------



## thedjkhalid

Ronion said:


> I don’t know, but I wouldn’t trust anything Tingo.  They changed the drivers on the TC200 before and on the TG38 more recently.  You just never know what you are going to get and it’s a shame because they’ve tend to start with very good drivers and then move to cheaper ones.


ahhh that is unfortunate, the pair I have currently are from a while ago.


----------



## drewbadour

Hey ear buddies!
So.... I somehow ended up with 12 buds + a few drivers to build my own buds.
I guess I should probably slim down the collection a bit - to start, anyone interested in the US interested in the Longyao Yinman 600? Will be posting to classifieds soon but figured I'd ask here so you all could get first shot.


----------



## samandhi

drewbadour said:


> Hey ear buddies!
> So.... I somehow ended up with 12 buds + a few drivers to build my own buds.
> I guess I should probably slim down the collection a bit - to start, anyone interested in the US interested in the Longyao Yinman 600? Will be posting to classifieds soon but figured I'd ask here so you all could get first shot.


Getting rid of the Yinmans... WOW! Must have created something better?


----------



## dsonance

drewbadour said:


> Hey ear buddies!
> So.... I somehow ended up with 12 buds + a few drivers to build my own buds.
> I guess I should probably slim down the collection a bit - to start, anyone interested in the US interested in the Longyao Yinman 600? Will be posting to classifieds soon but figured I'd ask here so you all could get first shot.


My bud collection is still smaller than that, and I'm definitely keeping my Yinman 600 for now. But, I feel the same about slimming it down 

I'll add a couple other things that might be of interest to the US folks (all soon to be posted to the Classifieds):

**** PT2021 365Ω
TRN EMX
Toneking Viridis (possibly)
(Edit: I'm surprised the brand of the first one is still getting blocked. I thought the matter has been resolved...)


----------



## ttorbic

Thought I'd share a pic of my shinies! Serratus and the Megatron ❤️


----------



## XP_98

drewbadour said:


> Hey ear buddies!
> So.... I somehow ended up with 12 buds + a few drivers to build my own buds.
> I guess I should probably slim down the collection a bit - to start, anyone interested in the US interested in the Longyao Yinman 600? Will be posting to classifieds soon but figured I'd ask here so you all could get first shot.


Hello
What termination ?


----------



## Wil

Does anyone have both the Serratus and Asura 3.0? 

I have the Asura now and boy oh boy do i like it. I was thinking about the Serratus but i don't want to get something too similar to the Asura.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Wil said:


> Does anyone have both the Serratus and Asura 3.0?
> 
> I have the Asura now and boy oh boy do i like it. I was thinking about the Serratus but i don't want to get something too similar to the Asura.



Can you share some impressions of Asura? I'm pretty impressed by the VE Master, so I wonder how VE top-tier products sound.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Oct 18, 2022)

My gear for today. You know what, they do not sound bad at all. No harsh treble, no ice pick, decent bass, stable fit.

That makes me wonder how these Apple buds compare to my VE Monk+


Edit: You know what? I'm going to say it. Apple EarPods (buds, whatever) are better tuned than VE Monk+ to my ears. However, the Monk+ with S9 Pro has better technical performance.

I just realise that I am comparing two dirt cheap earbuds on a nearly deserted thread. I need a life


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> My gear for today. You know what, they do not sound bad at all. No harsh treble, no ice pick, decent bass, stable fit.
> 
> That makes me wonder how these Apple buds compare to my VE Monk+
> 
> ...


We have a similar impression of them.   They don’t have the widest or deepest soundstage, deep bass, airy treble, but their midrange is well tuned.  That’s better than a lot of cheap buds.  I have to put foams on them for stability and consistency though.


----------



## drewbadour

XP_98 said:


> Hello
> What termination ?


It's 4.4


----------



## samandhi

ttorbic said:


> Thought I'd share a pic of my shinies! Serratus and the Megatron ❤️


Congrats on your new shinies! 

How do you find the pairing?


o0genesis0o said:


> My gear for today. You know what, they do not sound bad at all. No harsh treble, no ice pick, decent bass, stable fit.
> 
> That makes me wonder how these Apple buds compare to my VE Monk+
> 
> ...


Not at all. I don't think this thread is deserted.... 

As to your comments about the EarPods, they do have a decent sound, but for me they are one of the few head gear that the treble (for some reason unknown to me) becomes quite fatiguing after a time; an area that normally doesn't bother me at all. 

Now, the old classic iPod flatheads - the ones well before having inline controls - actually sound really good (now that I am comparing them to contemporary buds). They just lack any sort of meaningful bass, though they DO have some texture to them. And these are NOT very "EQ(able)". I know that I won't be getting rid of them any time soon... 

If you look closely, you can see all the blemishes, scratches, and stains, but I think they are in marvelous shape considering I used these daily for many years back in the day. They are tough birds, I'll give them that and honestly, I can't believe they even resemble the color white still.


----------



## XP_98 (Oct 18, 2022)

drewbadour said:


> It's 4.4


Sent PM


----------



## drewbadour

XP_98 said:


> Sent PM


Replied, thank you!


----------



## prakasitp

Just got Rikubuds’ Grand Saber 2. wanna share the photo to you all.

Haven’t got my head around the sound yet but seems interesting.

Has anyone try it?


----------



## jeejack

prakasitp said:


> Just got Rikubuds’ Grand Saber 2. wanna share the photo to you all.
> 
> Haven’t got my head around the sound yet but seems interesting.
> 
> Has anyone try it?


It sounds good from all positions because it uses 150 ohm BG drivers.


----------



## fogside

Db1e  Review in progress...few days needed


----------



## Ronion

fogside said:


> Db1e  Review in progress...few days needed


No pictures of what’s inside the box?


----------



## fogside

Ronion said:


> No pictures of what’s inside the box?


----------



## silverszi

jogawag said:


> There is a wearing method that maximises the bass of the earbuds.
> The vertical wearing of earbuds means that 'the earbuds  are not placed horizontally over the ear canal, but are pressed vertically against the front of the ear canal'.
> Some people have already adopted this method.


Is this a normal human ear?
Mine are nowhere near big enough to do this


----------



## jogawag

silverszi said:


> Is this a normal human ear?
> Mine are nowhere near big enough to do this


This is my ear.
Perhaps the entrance to my ear canal may be wider than that of most people.

But in my ears, earbuds fit better with the vertical wearing method, so I can hear more bass in earbuds than in IEMs.


----------



## digititus

jogawag said:


> This is my ear.
> Perhaps the entrance to my ear canal may be wider than that of most people.
> 
> But in my ears, earbuds fit better with the vertical wearing method, so I can hear more bass in earbuds than in IEMs.


You have bass ears! Congratulations


----------



## samandhi

jogawag said:


> This is my ear.
> Perhaps the entrance to my ear canal may be wider than that of most people.
> 
> But in my ears, earbuds fit better with the vertical wearing method, so I can hear more bass in earbuds than in IEMs.


I also tried this, and they (also) do not fit for me in this manner. Bummer...


----------



## Eduardiofilo

I have using the White Lotus S300 everytime that i listen to music and i swear by god that this earbuds sound much much better with thin foams. It just turn more balanced. If you didn't like S300 because it was "to much bass or warm" i swear that you will love them if you use thin foams. 

like this: https://es.aliexpress.com/item/3301..._list.0.0.21ef194dS1rHAH&gatewayAdapt=glo2esp


----------



## jeejack

Eduardiofilo said:


> I have using the White Lotus S300 everytime that i listen to music and i swear by god that this earbuds sound much much better with thin foams. It just turn more balanced. If you didn't like S300 because it was "to much bass or warm" i swear that you will love them if you use thin foams.
> 
> like this: https://es.aliexpress.com/item/3301..._list.0.0.21ef194dS1rHAH&gatewayAdapt=glo2esp


Try it with donuts foam and see if there is a difference


----------



## Eduardiofilo

jeejack said:


> Try it with donuts foam and see if there is a difference


I WAS WRONG.

After a while they became sibilant hahaha. But isn't a big problem for me because i also  like them when i use regular foams


----------



## ian91

jogawag said:


> There is a wearing method that maximises the bass of the earbuds.
> The vertical wearing of earbuds means that 'the earbuds  are not placed horizontally over the ear canal, but are pressed vertically against the front of the ear canal'.
> Some people have already adopted this method.



It's amazing how much a difference orientation of the driver can make to the perceived bass. How I position my buds is usually a mixture of what fits best and what sounds best. I've found that when orientating towards a position like this the bass quantity increases but the quality drops off very quickly, but YMMV!


----------



## chinmie (Oct 20, 2022)

I've just bought this on a whim (Soundpeats Air 3), had a good price for BNIB condition.. and I'm really liking this. look at that really cute and tiny case!  
sound is also surprisingly good, and the fit is so comfortably small that it forgot even wearing it. i recommend this for someone who is looking for earbud style TWS


----------



## SolaVirtus

chinmie said:


> I've just bought this on a whim, had a good price for BNIB condition.. and I'm really liking this. look at that really cute and tiny case!
> sound is also surprisingly good, and the fit is so comfortably small that it forgot even wearing it. i recommend this for someone who is looking for earbud style TWS


What's the brand/model?


----------



## chinmie

SolaVirtus said:


> What's the brand/model?



whoops, i'm sorry, it's the Soundpeats Air 3. i'll edit my last post to add the name too


----------



## mika91 (Oct 20, 2022)

Hi,

I'd like to buy earbuds, and I'm hesitating between Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis, Smabat M2s Pro and K's LBBS.
All are about same price (around 70-80€) and have great reviews.

I listen mostly acoustic rock and classical music (no hip hop or electronical music)
I'd like eardbuds to perform good on male voices, acoustic instruments and bass lines, without listening fatigue and be permissive for bad records.

Another major concern of mine is the fit.
I own NiceHCK EBX, and the fit is horrible, so I don't use them anymore and replace them with Qian Q39.

I find the toneking gorgeous, but I fear it'll be too bright. Maybe some equalization is possible to make them sound more warn ?
And I guess they will not fit as well as LBBS...


----------



## SolaVirtus

chinmie said:


> whoops, i'm sorry, it's the Soundpeats Air 3. i'll edit my last post to add the name too


Thanks! I've been thinking about trying a TWS set that are reasonably priced and at least decent sounding (not airpods). I'd use them more for calls, podcasts, maybe TV/movies a little. Not music. 

I'll add these to list of considerations. Do you think they could still fit in the case and charge properly with foams?


----------



## james444

chinmie said:


> I've just bought this on a whim (Soundpeats Air 3), had a good price for BNIB condition.. and I'm really liking this. look at that really cute and tiny case!
> sound is also surprisingly good, and the fit is so comfortably small that it forgot even wearing it. i recommend this for someone who is looking for earbud style TWS



Congrats, imo these are some of the best value open / side-firing TWS one can buy! So good that I actually own two pairs. 

Even better, the Soundpeats app offers a 6-band in-device equalizer. Which means that once set, the EQ will work with any source, since it's stored inside the TWS.

Here's my recommended EQ-setting for them, it tunes the somewhat hot stock treble a bit down and shifts the low-range balance slightly towards sub-bass:


----------



## james444

SolaVirtus said:


> I'll add these to list of considerations. Do you think they could still fit in the case and charge properly with foams?



You don't need foams with side-firing earbuds, they're more efficient than flatheads in directing bass into your ear canals. No need to attenuate treble with foam.


----------



## thedjkhalid

mika91 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'd like to buy earbuds, and I'm hesitating between Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis, Smabat M2s Pro and K's LBBS.
> All are about same price (around 70-80€) and have great reviews.
> ...


I have the M2s Pro and the LBBS, and have had issues with both so I will give you my feedback on them.

I have gone through 2 LBBS's, the first one had bad distortion within 3 months, then the next one in one side within 6 months.  Great sound and fit, but I don't want to deal with them since they seem to die too quickly.
I got the M2s Pro's a few weeks ago, and they sound great (need a bit of EQ tweaking the 4KHz region) and fit better than MX500 shells (not as good as the LBBS though).  However, one of the drivers died shortly the day of me receiving them.  I am currently waiting on a replacement for one of the drivers from the seller.


Sound and fit wise, I would rather have the LBBS, but they have proven to have QC issues for me.  I can't make a judgement on the M2s Pro yet, but it already started off badly for me (dying on the first day).  Don't have any experience with the Dendroaspis Viridis, it was on my short list as well.  From what I've gathered, the bass is anemic, so you may need to look out for that.


----------



## Buchi

mika91 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'd like to buy earbuds, and I'm hesitating between Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis, Smabat M2s Pro and K's LBBS.
> All are about same price (around 70-80€) and have great reviews.
> ...


I won't buy the LBBS. I had one and it died in less than 1 year. Even when it worked I enjoyed my other buds more than it.


----------



## chinmie

SolaVirtus said:


> Thanks! I've been thinking about trying a TWS set that are reasonably priced and at least decent sounding (not airpods). I'd use them more for calls, podcasts, maybe TV/movies a little. Not music.
> 
> I'll add these to list of considerations. Do you think they could still fit in the case and charge properly with foams?



i tried it with some thin foams, and it still closes and charge. i also tried it with thick Hiegi foams and it would still charge, but i have to push the lid down a bit.

i do use some foams for my old Vivo Neo TWS (and had to do some modification to the charging case to fit the foams), but that's because i feel the sound needs more bass.

For the Air 3, even the stock EQ sound has enough bass that i don't feel the need to use foams at all, and i can add more with EQ if needed.

if you really need extra grip for fitting, i would suggest using these silicone sleeves instead





james444 said:


> Congrats, imo these are some of the best value open / side-firing TWS one can buy! So good that I actually own two pairs.
> 
> Even better, the Soundpeats app offers a 6-band in-device equalizer. Which means that once set, the EQ will work with any source, since it's stored inside the TWS.
> 
> Here's my recommended EQ-setting for them, it tunes the somewhat hot stock treble a bit down and shifts the low-range balance slightly towards sub-bass:



wow, our EQ are somewhat similar! 

i started the EQ flat at 5db to match the gain with the preset EQs, cut away some 300, some 6k and 8.5k, then add a bit of bass. 

i tried the adaptive EQ, but didn't like the EQ sound it created.


----------



## Ronion

james444 said:


> Congrats, imo these are some of the best value open / side-firing TWS one can buy! So good that I actually own two pairs.
> 
> Even better, the Soundpeats app offers a 6-band in-device equalizer. Which means that once set, the EQ will work with any source, since it's stored inside the TWS.
> 
> Here's my recommended EQ-setting for them, it tunes the somewhat hot stock treble a bit down and shifts the low-range balance slightly towards sub-bass:





james444 said:


> You don't need foams with side-firing earbuds, they're more efficient than flatheads in directing bass into your ear canals. No need to attenuate treble with foam.


This statement seems to be in direct conflict with your previous statement.  Am I missing something?


Buchi said:


> I won't buy the LBBS. I had one and it died in less than 1 year. Even when it worked I enjoyed my other buds more than it.


Mine are still alive but I never use them.  Nearly all of my buds sound better than these at this point.  I’m surprised that at one point I thought these were okay buds.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> This statement seems to be in direct conflict with your previous statement.  Am I missing something?
> 
> Mine are still alive but I never use them.  Nearly all of my buds sound better than these at this point.  I’m surprised that at one point I thought these were okay buds.


You should make a "Ronion buds" firm so that I can order one and try. I would appreciate if you can give a reviewer discount though   

On a related topic, have you seen any DIY parts for the side-firing type of earbuds (Apple knock-off)? I like the fit but not the build or the sound, so I wonder whether we can squeeze better sound out of that form factor.


----------



## lanister (Oct 21, 2022)

chinmie said:


> I've just bought this on a whim (Soundpeats Air 3), had a good price for BNIB condition.. and I'm really liking this. look at that really cute and tiny case!
> sound is also surprisingly good, and the fit is so comfortably small that it forgot even wearing it. i recommend this for someone who is looking for earbud style TWS


Unfortunately i don't share this opinion. I got one and I quickly put it into my unused box. It is so much worse than the Current Nicehck Eb2s i am using.


----------



## BCool

o0genesis0o said:


> You should make a "Ronion buds" firm so that I can order one and try. I would appreciate if you can give a reviewer discount though
> 
> On a related topic, have you seen any DIY parts for the side-firing type of earbuds (Apple knock-off)? I like the fit but not the build or the sound, so I wonder whether we can squeeze better sound out of that form factor.


These are the closest I've found:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32848181142.html

Or these ones if you're feeling more adventurous:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2046557394.html


----------



## chinmie

lanister said:


> Unfortunately i don't share this opinion. I got one and I quickly put it into my unused box. It is so much worse than the Current Nicehck Eb2s i am using.



don't worry, different opinions mean a chance to have a discussion  
i like using full TWS for daily use, and mostly for general media like youtube and such. for purely listening to music on the go, i prefer using IEMs or mmcx earbuds with BT earhooks, but they are much bulkier. the Air3 appeal to me is because of the really small size, comfort, while also provide good enough sound quality for my casual use


----------



## fogside

My review ksearphone db1e   enjoy !
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ksearphone-temperament-db1e.26123/


----------



## james444 (Oct 21, 2022)

Ronion said:


> This statement seems to be in direct conflict with your previous statement.  Am I missing something?



You're right, I should have explained that better. I meant that the typical use of foams to make flatheads sound bassier is not something one would typically do with side-firing TWS. And as @chinmie said, even the stock EQ sound on the Air 3 has enough bass that he doesn't feel the need to use foams at all. Actually, the stock EQ is rather v-shaped with somewhat uneven / hot treble. So, the primary reason for our (very similar) EQ settings is the intent to calm down that treble and not to compensate for a possible lack of bass. Hope this clarifies things a bit.



chinmie said:


> i tried the adaptive EQ, but didn't like the EQ sound it created.



I don't use this feature either with the Soundpeats. According to that test, I'd have perfect hearing (which I know is blatantly false ). For example, Oppo offer a much more accurate hearing test with the app for their Enco X2. That one is really useful in comparison, however the X2 isn't an open earbud and 4-5 times the price of the Air 3. One just can't have everything for $40-50, but nonetheless I think the Soundpeats' value is outstanding.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Since the Monk+ sound surprisingly good, I figured it deserves a more presentable cable.



BCool said:


> These are the closest I've found:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32848181142.html
> 
> Or these ones if you're feeling more adventurous:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2046557394.html



Thanks mate! The adventurous one is exactly that I have been dreaming about: 15.4mm driver inside IEM-ish shells. If we can tame the mid bass to avoid muddiness, can you imagine the bass slam


----------



## o0genesis0o

fogside said:


> My review ksearphone db1e   enjoy !
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ksearphone-temperament-db1e.26123/



I think you posted the "review" incorrectly. Your review is actually in the "info" page of the product. You should click on the button "add a review" and write your review there, so that I can like your review. You can have a look at how I create a page for YD30 as an example: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-yd30.26062/ 

On the other hand, that db1e sounds very interesting.


----------



## forestitalia (Oct 21, 2022)

baydude said:


> Can someone recommend best earbuds for under $50?


Yincrow X6. those have such good enjoyable bass, without 'alien technology' that you have to pay crazy dollars for.....


----------



## fogside

o0genesis0o said:


> I think you posted the "review" incorrectly. Your review is actually in the "info" page of the product. You should click on the button "add a review" and write your review there, so that I can like your review. You can have a look at how I create a page for YD30 as an example: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nicehck-yd30.26062/
> 
> On the other hand, that db1e sounds very interesting.


Thank you.my bad 
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ksearphone-temperament-db1e.26123/reviews#review-29422
Correctly review


----------



## tendou

o0genesis0o said:


> Can you share some impressions of Asura? I'm pretty impressed by the VE Master, so I wonder how VE top-tier products sound.


I'm not good at describing audio but for me Asura 3.0 FE is very inoffensive I think. It doesn't do anything badly. There are no bad peak no sibilance. 

I love vocal music, the asura 3.0 FE don't have overemphasized vocals but everything just right.

I'm keeping it right now for those reasons. It's quite a unique earbuds. Maybe it won't wow people though.


----------



## samandhi

chinmie said:


> i like using full TWS for daily use, and mostly for general media like youtube and such. for purely listening to music on the go, i prefer using IEMs or mmcx earbuds with BT earhooks, but they are much bulkier. the Air3 appeal to me is because of the really small size, comfort, while also provide good enough sound quality for my casual use


This is why I jumped on the Linkbuds when they came out. If you are an earbuds lover but wanted to dabble a bit in TWS, these (I would still argue) are marvelous. Are they the best of anything? Probably not, but they have just have so much going for them, that I truly (still) enjoy them. Plus, all that neat tech thrown into the mix is a bonus IMO. 

I suspect they weren't as popular as they COULD have been solely because of fitment, and maybe even lack of isolation/noise cancelling at all. Most of the "TWS" crowd all want noise cancelling or noise isolation at the least nowadays. They introduced these true earbuds on a battery to a niche crowd, with a very niche product. 

Shame really that they didn't get even more love than they DID get. Having said that, it seems to me they were VERY polarizing; people either hated them or loved them, not too many "mehs".


----------



## Ronion

I have 2 side firing earbuds: Google and Apple buds.  I prefer both of them with foams not only due to bass/treble balance, but also for comfort, fit and stability.  Of course I wouldn’t consider either of these buds as to be better than ‘minimally competent’.  Their soundstage is probably the worst of any bud I have and they have little bass response naked.  That said, I bet if you put them in a front firing shell, all semblance of competence would be lost.


----------



## qua2k

Last attempt to sell haha.. anyone in US want a Qlabs Magnus Fath for $40 shipped?


----------



## chinmie

samandhi said:


> This is why I jumped on the Linkbuds when they came out. If you are an earbuds lover but wanted to dabble a bit in TWS, these (I would still argue) are marvelous. Are they the best of anything? Probably not, but they have just have so much going for them, that I truly (still) enjoy them. Plus, all that neat tech thrown into the mix is a bonus IMO.
> 
> I suspect they weren't as popular as they COULD have been solely because of fitment, and maybe even lack of isolation/noise cancelling at all. Most of the "TWS" crowd all want noise cancelling or noise isolation at the least nowadays. They introduced these true earbuds on a battery to a niche crowd, with a very niche product.
> 
> Shame really that they didn't get even more love than they DID get. Having said that, it seems to me they were VERY polarizing; people either hated them or loved them, not too many "mehs".



the Linkbuds is indeed tempting, but i always holding back from buying it because i have too many TWS as it is at the moment... it's a chore just to keep charging the batteries 

the soundpeats is cheap enough that made me do an impulse buy, and it is surprisingly a good one. 

other earbuds type TWS that i really like is the Huawei Freebuds 4. the sound is really good and the ANC is impressive for an open earbuds type. the only crippling drawback for me is the really short battery life... if they can improve it to today’s standards of above 5-6 hours minimal, i would definitely get one


----------



## tendou

Ronion said:


> I have 2 side firing earbuds: Google and Apple buds.  I prefer both of them with foams not only due to bass/treble balance, but also for comfort, fit and stability.  Of course I wouldn’t consider either of these buds as to be better than ‘minimally competent’.  Their soundstage is probably the worst of any bud I have and they have little bass response naked.  That said, I bet if you put them in a front firing shell, all semblance of competence would be lost.


I just use full foam on them and call it a day. They don't really sounds right.


----------



## tendou

Faaeal Rosemary do sounds very good. For around 10 USD much more satisfying than other earbuds. Should have bought them earlier rather than buying random budget earbuds that I don't listen to much anyway.


----------



## Cheesebuggah

tendou said:


> Faaeal Rosemary do sounds very good. For around 10 USD much more satisfying than other earbuds. Should have bought them earlier rather than buying random budget earbuds that I don't listen to much anyway.


I was looking into those recently. The ones available to me are around $20. Do you think it is still worth it? I have tried the Iris CE and Iris 2.0 and wasn't too impressed. Though, I am interested in the fact that they are 150 Ohms.


----------



## tendou

Cheesebuggah said:


> I was looking into those recently. The ones available to me are around $20. Do you think it is still worth it? I have tried the Iris CE and Iris 2.0 and wasn't too impressed. Though, I am interested in the fact that they are 150 Ohms.



Mine around 12 USD because I opt for 4.4 version.


I haven't tried those iris but this is better than iris ancestors in my opinion. I think it's better than K64 too. Not sure how the price for other earbuds for you.
But for me it's worth it if you prefer there sound signature.


----------



## ian91 (Oct 22, 2022)

tendou said:


> Faaeal Rosemary do sounds very good. For around 10 USD much more satisfying than other earbuds. Should have bought them earlier rather than buying random budget earbuds that I don't listen to much anyway.



Rosemary is a good earbud for the price and is quite warm but it gets more balanced when amp'ed and using thin foams, both of which improves clarity.


----------



## KokushiTsumo

Any good thin foam recommendations? Loving the ones that come with VE Monks but looking for something even thinner/equally thin.


----------



## Eduardiofilo

KokushiTsumo said:


> Any good thin foam recommendations? Loving the ones that come with VE Monks but looking for something even thinner/equally thin.


https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/33...etail.0.0.7c5739d33QRrNt&gatewayAdapt=glo2esp


----------



## Eduardiofilo

Have anyone tried monk v2s or the old ones? Are they as good as veclan fanboys say?


----------



## Ronion

Cheesebuggah said:


> I was looking into those recently. The ones available to me are around $20. Do you think it is still worth it? I have tried the Iris CE and Iris 2.0 and wasn't too impressed. Though, I am interested in the fact that they are 150 Ohms.


Wow!  You got the Rosemary for $10!  That’s really a great deal.  If there’s still a link I wouldn’t mind if you shared


----------



## Ronion (Oct 22, 2022)

KokushiTsumo said:


> Any good thin foam recommendations? Loving the ones that come with VE Monks but looking for something even thinner/equally thin.


I’m a big fan of the VE foam selection in general.  I know that Trig Rain makes some that are even more porous but the irritate my ears.  The material reminds me of the rough side of a dish sponge.  I understand that they do make ones out of a more normal material that are very well received.


Eduardiofilo said:


> Have anyone tried monk v2s or the old ones? Are they as good as veclan fanboys say?


Anyone know which version is coming with the Megatron?  I’m definitely interested in them since they are probably the major gateway bud into the hobby.


----------



## drewbadour (Oct 22, 2022)

Cheesebuggah said:


> I was looking into those recently. The ones available to me are around $20. Do you think it is still worth it? I have tried the Iris CE and Iris 2.0 and wasn't too impressed. Though, I am interested in the fact that they are 150 Ohms.


I'm just going to jump in and say that Faaeal Rosemary with an easy mod (in addition to using thinner foams) is among my favorite buds right now hands down - I got mine for $23 after tax and shipping and it was WELL worth it - I would have been happy with the sound even if I paid $100.

Just seal the back vents using Scotch tape or similar, leaving just one of the small vents on each bud open, then use a thin foam. The result is that it becomes quite a capable performer that hangs in there with the heavy hitters around $100 (in my own opinion at least - and fwiw, $20 hopefully isn't too expensive to buy based on my recommendation).

Stock it is still pretty good at the $20 mark. But out of the box it is definitely bass heavy with a good amount of bloat bordering on muddiness - with the mod, the signature of the buds change completely - modded it becomes very balanced - bass tightens up and is toned down a bit, becoming more textured and less overwhelming, mids gain a great body, and overall it gains more clarity and air from a cleaned up treble.


----------



## Eduardiofilo

Anyone know which version is coming with the Megatron?  I’m definitely interested in them since they are probably the major gateway bud into the hobby.
[/QUOTE]
Master that is the name of the earbuds


----------



## Eduardiofilo

Ronion said:


> Anyone know which version is coming with the Megatron? I’m definitely interested in them since they are probably the major gateway bud into the hobby.


Master that is the name of the earbuds


----------



## o0genesis0o (Oct 22, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Anyone know which version is coming with the Megatron?  I’m definitely interested in them since they are probably the major gateway bud into the hobby.



Every Megatron comes with a monk+ (not monk v2, afaik). The default bundle that VE sells also has a VE master 4.4 (metal mx500 shell, 80ohm, 122dB/mW). I have already complained with VE that the master is a poor choice to show off Megatron. Should have packed something way harder to drive instead  

Edit: After A/B VE Master 4.4 against other sources in my collection, I found that the Master sounds the worst with Megatron. What was VE thinking   Those VE Master 4.4 connected to S9 Pro or Fiio stuffs is quite impressive. I use Master more than FF3 nowadays because they nearly match the performance, and FF3’s cable make me angry.


----------



## KokushiTsumo (Oct 22, 2022)

Ronion said:


> I’m a big fan of the VE foam selection in general.  I know that Trig Rain makes some that are even more porous but the irritate my ears.  The material reminds me of the rough side of a dish sponge.  I understand that they do make ones out of a more normal material that are very well received.
> 
> Anyone know which version is coming with the Megatron?  I’m definitely interested in them since they are probably the major gateway bud into the hobby.


The monk+, just got my Megatron yesterday, really surprised by these monks - in a positive way. Even compared to a lot of more modern buds they're still great. Definitely a keeper.


----------



## StasDikobraz

Revolutionary customer review on TONEKING Dendroaspis Viridis:
"Hands down my favorite pair of earbuds ever! I prefer them to my Moondrop Chaconnes, my Rose Technics Martinis, And Ksearphone LBBS. The Dendroaspis Viridis is the most detailed earbud I have tried, with a nice holographic 3d soundstage, tight/cobtrolled bass, fast detailed mids, and sweet, sparkly highs. They are exactly what I would have made an earbud sound like if I designed it perfectly to my tastes. These are amazing!"


----------



## chinmie

Eduardiofilo said:


> https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/33...etail.0.0.7c5739d33QRrNt&gatewayAdapt=glo2esp



talking about thin foams, these foams that i bought in 2017 are still good and fresh even today, unlike many other regular foams that i bought which would disintegrate to dust even unused in storage.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Every Megatron comes with a monk+ (not monk v2, afaik). The default bundle that VE sells also has a VE master 4.4 (metal mx500 shell, 80ohm, 122dB/mW). I have already complained with VE that the master is a poor choice to show off Megatron. Should have packed something way harder to drive instead
> 
> Edit: After A/B VE Master 4.4 against other sources in my collection, I found that the Master sounds the worst with Megatron. What was VE thinking   Those VE Master 4.4 connected to S9 Pro or Fiio stuffs is quite impressive. I use Master more than FF3 nowadays because they nearly match the performance, and FF3’s cable make me angry.


I’m fairly certain that the Monk isn’t going to be a great match either….


----------



## qua2k

Ronion said:


> I’m a big fan of the VE foam selection in general.  I know that Trig Rain makes some that are even more porous but the irritate my ears.  The material reminds me of the rough side of a dish sponge.  I understand that they do make ones out of a more normal material that are very well received.
> 
> Anyone know which version is coming with the Megatron?  I’m definitely interested in them since they are probably the major gateway bud into the hobby.


I like Trig Rain as well. The only bad thing is that some of the colors tend to bleed for whatever reason. For ex. If I have a green on L and a yellow on R, the yellow would bleed onto the green foam and vice versa. Also not sure what kind of foams Blur uses but similar, ordered 2 buds from him and he shipped them with blue colored foams on them and a few spots on the cable, there is permanent blue on it. Kind of want to try VEs though. 

I have recently converted to HieGi, a bit thicker but makes fit better for me. Downside only comes in black and white but have open hole option.


----------



## Ronion

I find HieGi to be incredibly comfortable and durable.  The best I’ve found on those 2 fronts.  They will dull the treble more than other foams and with some buds they’ll even decrease the low bass.  These features can be used to tune buds to your liking.


----------



## thedjkhalid

drewbadour said:


> I'm just going to jump in and say that Faaeal Rosemary with an easy mod (in addition to using thinner foams) is among my favorite buds right now hands down - I got mine for $23 after tax and shipping and it was WELL worth it - I would have been happy with the sound even if I paid $100.
> 
> Just seal the back vents using Scotch tape or similar, leaving just one of the small vents on each bud open, then use a thin foam. The result is that it becomes quite a capable performer that hangs in there with the heavy hitters around $100 (in my own opinion at least - and fwiw, $20 hopefully isn't too expensive to buy based on my recommendation).
> 
> Stock it is still pretty good at the $20 mark. But out of the box it is definitely bass heavy with a good amount of bloat bordering on muddiness - with the mod, the signature of the buds change completely - modded it becomes very balanced - bass tightens up and is toned down a bit, becoming more textured and less overwhelming, mids gain a great body, and overall it gains more clarity and air from a cleaned up treble.


Got some pics that I can follow?  Would love to try this mod out on mine, they've been collecting dust since I don't like overly warm buds.


----------



## Ronion

thedjkhalid said:


> Got some pics that I can follow?  Would love to try this mod out on mine, they've been collecting dust since I don't like overly warm buds.


That mod should work!  I like to do this with wax ear plugs.  You just pull a little off and stick it in the little holes behind the drivers.  Plug as many as you like: season to taste.


----------



## thedjkhalid

Ronion said:


> That mod should work!  I like to do this with wax ear plugs.  You just pull a little off and stick it in the little holes behind the drivers.  Plug as many as you like: season to taste.


Got it, I initially put tape over all the holes and then just one side of each earbud.  I'll mess around with each individual hole instead of the whole side now.


----------



## drewbadour (Oct 22, 2022)

thedjkhalid said:


> Got some pics that I can follow?  Would love to try this mod out on mine, they've been collecting dust since I don't like overly warm buds.


It's ugly and I've since cleaned it up but this should give you an idea of what I did!

The more holes you cover, the less bloated it will be! I ended up covering all but one little hole.

Covering all the vents basically kills off bass so I reckon the next step past that is to cover the little hole with micropore tape or something porous and thin so it still has some bass response!


----------



## thedjkhalid

drewbadour said:


> It's ugly and I've since cleaned it up but this should give you an idea of what I did!
> 
> The more holes you cover, the less bloated it will be! I ended up covering all but one little hole.
> 
> Covering all the vents basically kills off bass so I reckon the next step past that is to cover the little hole with micropore tape or something porous and thin so it still has some bass response!


Got it!  A little while after I got them, I actually put a hole myself in them using a soldering iron.  Helped add some more air and soundstage.  I will mess around and see which vent combination I like.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> I’m fairly certain that the Monk isn’t going to be a great match either….


Yup. I guess they can't just put a Zen 2.0 inside  I imagine Megatron would work well with the Zen, based on what I read. Megatron sound noticeably leaner than my other DAC/AMPs.


----------



## dsonance

Now that I got spoiled by flatheads, and pushing something into my ear canals started to feel unnatural 🤣, I've been experimenting with replacing my teleconferencing IEM headset with earbuds. So far, the results have been both interesting and frustrating.

I chose Faaeal Iris 2.0 with mic for the set to try, because of their darker signature, low price, and ready availability on Amazon. Plugged into my MacBook, the earbuds sounded fine, but the mic's sensitivity level turned out to be exceptionally low: cranking the manual gain setting to the max in Zoom barely got the sound indicator to move beyond a tiny red bar. At first, I thought this was a QC issue, and I got a defective set. Two replacements later, I'm now confident it's just the way Iris 2.0 work with MacBooks (or, perhaps, with just _my_ MacBook), which, unfortunately, makes them a poor choice for my situation.

Here's the interesting part: when an Iris 2.0 set is first plugged in, for the first couple of seconds the sensitivity of the mic seems to be much higher, and on par with my regular headset. Then, some circuitry kicks in, and the sensitivity drops to almost nothing. So, it appears that the mic itself is not at fault. There must be some other clever piece of machinery responsible for this. What that is remains a mystery, though


----------



## tendou

Ronion said:


> Wow!  You got the Rosemary for $10!  That’s really a great deal.  If there’s still a link I wouldn’t mind if you shared


It was a local shopping platform for my country only. Guess you can't buy it.

https://s.lazada.com.my/s.4E1x9


----------



## tendou

ian91 said:


> Rosemary is a good earbud for the price and is quite warm but it gets more balanced when amp'ed and using thin foams, both of which improves clarity.


I like the warmth and full sounds of this buds while still possessing enough clarity.

It's not a technical and detailed sets if people are searching for one though.


----------



## Ronion

Last I looked the Rosemary was around $25 here.  

I mentioned earlier about the response of the HieGi compared to more standard, generic foams.


----------



## baskingshark

tendou said:


> I like the warmth and full sounds of this buds while still possessing enough clarity.
> 
> It's not a technical and detailed sets if people are searching for one though.



Yep I still keep my Rosemary earbud around, very warm bassy set, well suited to just chill to music. Lacks technicalities/resolution though, but there are other buds for that

What source are you using with the Rosemary? They are pretty hard to drive due to the 150 ohm impedance, but when amped properly, the clarity and resolution improves somewhat.


----------



## jeejack

drewbadour said:


> It's ugly and I've since cleaned it up but this should give you an idea of what I did!
> 
> The more holes you cover, the less bloated it will be! I ended up covering all but one little hole.
> 
> Covering all the vents basically kills off bass so I reckon the next step past that is to cover the little hole with micropore tape or something porous and thin so it still has some bass response!


You can use thick EVA foam


----------



## qua2k

dsonance said:


> Now that I got spoiled by flatheads, and pushing something into my ear canals started to feel unnatural 🤣, I've been experimenting with replacing my teleconferencing IEM headset with earbuds. So far, the results have been both interesting and frustrating.


This is me lol  I have had a Sennheiser CX TWS but the Bluetooth seems to not connect as quickly as I would like so back to the company provided 1990s tech for now.


----------



## ttorbic (Oct 23, 2022)

Just FYI, VE released a very cheap add-on set to the Megatron that includes a 70 Ohm impedance adaptor and a microphone for 5USD! I know the impedance adaptor will change the sound profile of whatever IEM or earbud is used with it, but I think the overall sound may end up slightly warmer. Maybe @o0genesis0o or whoever has both the Megatron and a measuring rig could get one and measure - for the community ❤️. I've ordered one but don't have a measurement rig. Happy to share what my ears hear, but as a scientist I want some easy of measuring it lol.

Edit: here's AliX link. Can also buy from VE website. https://a.aliexpress.com/_EJKlgn7


----------



## o0genesis0o

ttorbic said:


> Just FYI, VE released a very cheap add-on set to the Megatron that includes a 70 Ohm impedance adaptor and a microphone for 5USD! I know the impedance adaptor will change the sound profile of whatever IEM or earbud is used with it, but I think the overall sound may end up slightly warmer. Maybe @o0genesis0o or whoever has both the Megatron and a measuring rig could get one and measure - for the community ❤️. I've ordered one but don't have a measurement rig. Happy to share what my ears hear, but as a scientist I want some easy of measuring it lol



I’ll have a look. Interesting indeed. I don’t know what 70ohm output impedance would do to something like monk+ (64ohm). Looking forward for your subjective impressions as well.


----------



## ttorbic

o0genesis0o said:


> I’ll have a look. Interesting indeed. I don’t know what 70ohm output impedance would do to something like monk+ (64ohm). Looking forward for your subjective impressions as well.


I intend to use the adaptor for my sensitive IEMs with impedance of around 10-20 Ohms. At the moment I hear the noise floor and the volume is wayyyy too loud - precisely why VE has a disclaimer on the Megatron website lol


----------



## o0genesis0o

ttorbic said:


> I intend to use the adaptor for my sensitive IEMs with impedance of around 10-20 Ohms. At the moment I hear the noise floor and the volume is wayyyy too loud - precisely why VE has a disclaimer on the Megatron website lol


I'm not sure whether that's a good idea, given how something like Andromeda changes noticeably with just a couple extra ohm in the source or even the cable. This change is reflected directly in frequency response graphs, not just intangible aspects. But do let me know how it goes. Extending the usability of Megatron is always a good idea.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Howdy, folks!

I have added some earbuds graphs to my graph database. Just search for earbud and you will find some. If you search DIY, you can see the measurements of some of my buds as well. My goal is to build up a database of some MX500 drivers in the stock black MX500 shells without any modifications. 

Anyhow, today, I bring you the graph of two VE buds: Monk+ and Master. 

Some observations:

Both have less-than-stella channel matching (worse than FF3, worse than my amateur DIY earbuds, but better than my defective Smabat M4)
Both VE buds roll off significantly after 150Hz, giving them that "fast" and "tight" bass because most of the bass energy is focused in the punch region and there is very little rumble. 
Neither Master nor Monk+ are harsh or piercing due to the subdued 5k region. They rely most only on the ear-gain and the mid-treble peak to keep the sound from being boring.
Despite having a milder tuning across the board, Master sounds distinctively more resolving than Monk+, trading blow or slightly exceed FF3 on this aspect. 
I still think neither Monk+ nor Master good match for VE Megatron. They are too easy to drive.
Anyhow, what do I think about Master or Monk+? Without any comparison, I'm gladly daily drive Monk+. In fact, I did. However, Monk+ pales in comparison to Master. Now that I have a ddHifi adapter (4.4 to 2.5), I can use Master with all of my DAC/AMP, thus I have no more use for Monk+. 

Regarding the Master, it sounds quite good. The lack of bass comparing to FF3 is a shame, but the form factor and the cable is a bit better, so I actually use Master more than any other head-fi gear in my current collection. 


Other update: Replacement units of Smabat M4 is coming soon. I hope that I can finally hear and tune M4 properly. Stay tuned, and happy listening!


----------



## KokushiTsumo

o0genesis0o said:


> Howdy, folks!
> 
> I have added some earbuds graphs to my graph database. Just search for earbud and you will find some. If you search DIY, you can see the measurements of some of my buds as well. My goal is to build up a database of some MX500 drivers in the stock black MX500 shells without any modifications.
> 
> ...


That Monk+ graph lines up nicely with what I'm hearing actually, thought the treble was pretty subdued at first but then noticed it has a few peaks (7k and air region). And the Monk+ is actually a decent pairing for the Megatron imo, it's right on the edge of not hissing and driven nicely at lower output (though yes, I agree they could include some sort of harder to drive bud to really show it off - wishful thinking ).


----------



## ttorbic

o0genesis0o said:


> I'm not sure whether that's a good idea, given how something like Andromeda changes noticeably with just a couple extra ohm in the source or even the cable. This change is reflected directly in frequency response graphs, not just intangible aspects. But do let me know how it goes. Extending the usability of Megatron is always a good idea.


Yeah it depends on the IEM, but sometimes an impedance adaptor is used specifically to change the sig, like with some Audiosense IEMs. I am hoping the adaptor will make the Megatron a bit less clinical


----------



## tendou

baskingshark said:


> Yep I still keep my Rosemary earbud around, very warm bassy set, well suited to just chill to music. Lacks technicalities/resolution though, but there are other buds for that
> 
> What source are you using with the Rosemary? They are pretty hard to drive due to the 150 ohm impedance, but when amped properly, the clarity and resolution improves somewhat.


I am using shanling UA3 and Megatron for them.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> I’ll have a look. Interesting indeed. I don’t know what 70ohm output impedance would do to something like monk+ (64ohm). Looking forward for your subjective impressions as well.


I haven’t done any real subjective testing, but in general earbud driver frequency responses don’t change much and I can only assume their impedance looks more like resistance to the amp.  Only one I measured had significant deviations from baseline and that was the 32 Ohm blue glue.  When I say significant, it was only around a decibel for a span of less than an octave.  Not a huge deal.  I only tested a couple drivers and from memory it was at 75 or 80 Ohms.  My other resistor built into a plug is 220Ohms.  It makes things hard to get well above the noise floor in my living room for measurements.  With cans, the situation is very different and IEMs more so perhaps.  Earbuds are largely immune.


----------



## barato (Oct 23, 2022)

Most dynamic driver IEM impedance graph I see is fairly flat too, I have wondered what the effects the output impedance when FR is uneffected.
Electrical damping (ability for amp to control the driver) is technically impacted  by output impedance even if FR is not effected.

From testing on IE300 and CX300, high output impedance (above damping factor around 1, where driver and output impedance matching) there wasn't much audible effect and the effect that was heard I could not really call negative, just different. Extremely high (output impedance multiple times the driver impedance) does start to cause clear negative effects (grainy, muddy).


Consider that efficiency is reduced with high output impedance, with a damping factor of 1 amp needs to pump twice the power to match volume of typical high damping factor setup, amp could be contributing to heard differences too.


----------



## Ronion

Something else I've noticed with foams.  I'm not saying that this is absolutely true, but with buds that don't have a lot of deep bass, the HieGi do often add some bass.  VE foams tend to add in deep bass as well, but it's not very pronounced in this case.  It's always marginal and not miraculous.  The treble difference is definitely the most audible difference no matter what and the shape of these changes are different with different drivers.


----------



## chinmie

Ronion said:


> Something else I've noticed with foams.  I'm not saying that this is absolutely true, but with buds that don't have a lot of deep bass, the HieGi do often add some bass.  VE foams tend to add in deep bass as well, but it's not very pronounced in this case.  It's always marginal and not miraculous.  The treble difference is definitely the most audible difference no matter what and the shape of these changes are different with different drivers.



yup, i agree. might be because of more contact to the inner ear lobes, making the transmission of the bass frequency better? because i seem to experience that using rubber rings also increase bass response


----------



## ttorbic

Ronion said:


> Something else I've noticed with foams.  I'm not saying that this is absolutely true, but with buds that don't have a lot of deep bass, the HieGi do often add some bass.  VE foams tend to add in deep bass as well, but it's not very pronounced in this case.  It's always marginal and not miraculous.  The treble difference is definitely the most audible difference no matter what and the shape of these changes are different with different drivers.


Yeah that seems to be the overall opinion about Hiegi / dense foams. I suspect it's due to better sealing but admit it could be due to other factors as well


----------



## Ronion

ttorbic said:


> Yeah that seems to be the overall opinion about Hiegi / dense foams. I suspect it's due to better sealing but admit it could be due to other factors as well


I always find it interest how the foams react differently with different designs.  As far as I can remember, every time a designs efficiently plays under 100Hz, the HieGi seems to decrease bass response by a dB or 2.  When the design is devoid of deep bass, HieGi seem to boost the bass a dB or 2….  They always reduce treble, but different designs are affected differently.  Some you can barely see a reduction in treble, but when you listen the treble sounds more clear and resolved.  Others will get completely muted above a 3-4kHz, but otherwise unaffected….. while others it will be more broad and shallow.  I certainly haven’t wrapped my head around the “why’s“(IOW why aren’t they all the same?) specifically, but there are definitely trends in the driver’s underlying, innate frequency response and how it reacts to HieGi foams.  One thing is for sure: HieGi are a great tool for bright earbud designs.  Everything I’ve heard that is bright with stock foams sound better with HieGi.  If the bud is neutral or dull, stay away and look to VE for enhancements.  VE foams are even more interesting….


----------



## ian91 (Oct 24, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Something else I've noticed with foams.  I'm not saying that this is absolutely true, but with buds that don't have a lot of deep bass, the HieGi do often add some bass.  VE foams tend to add in deep bass as well, but it's not very pronounced in this case.  It's always marginal and not miraculous.  The treble difference is definitely the most audible difference no matter what and the shape of these changes are different with different drivers.



It's a good feeling when you change a pair of foams and just this change elevates the sound from good to great/excellent (obviously it can go the other way too). It's becoming more apparent it's just as important as tip choice is with IEMs.


----------



## drewbadour

ian91 said:


> It's a good feeling when you change a pair of foams and just this change elevates the sound from good to great/excellent (obviously it can go the other way too). It's becoming more apparent it's just as important as tip choice is with IEMs.


Agreed! I'd say it's more important than IEM tip choice👍


----------



## Ronion

On my break at work and I just have to say that even though I just have the 600 Beryllium connected to a 1V dongle, it blows my mind.  I can’t wait to do this with the Megatron.  Hopefully this output will give the Megatron enough juice to be an improvement over the dongle.  If not, this is my traveling rig.  Well, it’s also my home rig because none of my headphones are on this level: not my 400SE, HD650, my modded 600Ohm 990, or any of the other headphones I own.  None of them are on this level.  Some can do deeper bass for sure, but resolution and soundstage go to the 600Be as well as tonal balance.  My 500 are essentially the same.  They are tuned slightly different to get the same response, but either of them beat all others.  My 130Be isn’t that far behind and has better bass.


----------



## ian91

Ronion said:


> On my break at work and I just have to say that even though I just have the 600 Beryllium connected to a 1V dongle, it blows my mind.  I can’t wait to do this with the Megatron.  Hopefully this output will give the Megatron enough juice to be an improvement over the dongle.  If not, this is my traveling rig.  Well, it’s also my home rig because none of my headphones are on this level: not my 400SE, HD650, my modded 600Ohm 990, or any of the other headphones I own.  None of them are on this level.  Some can do deeper bass for sure, but resolution and soundstage go to the 600Be as well as tonal balance.  My 500 are essentially the same.  They are tuned slightly different to get the same response, but either of them beat all others.  My 130Be isn’t that far behind and has better bass.



Megatron drives my Alpha well but I prefer my tube amp. What I've noticed with the Megatron is that, regardless of transducer, it isn't the most revealing source and also plays with the imaging slightly, where elements have less directionality and dimension to them.

This happens with most devices, regardless of impedance. So I don't think it's power related. These characteristics are, for me, the main drawbacks to the Megatron and leave me wanting a better portable option. Don't get me wrong, it still represents great value at the price and I don't regret the purchase. 

I'll be interested to hear what you think of the Megatron.


----------



## FranQL

Ronion said:


> On my break at work and I just have to say that even though I just have the 600 Beryllium connected to a 1V dongle, it blows my mind.  I can’t wait to do this with the Megatron.  Hopefully this output will give the Megatron enough juice to be an improvement over the dongle.  If not, this is my traveling rig.  Well, it’s also my home rig because none of my headphones are on this level: not my 400SE, HD650, my modded 600Ohm 990, or any of the other headphones I own.  None of them are on this level.  Some can do deeper bass for sure, but resolution and soundstage go to the 600Be as well as tonal balance.  My 500 are essentially the same.  They are tuned slightly different to get the same response, but either of them beat all others.  My 130Be isn’t that far behind and has better bass.



yes, 600 Ohm is without a doubt my number one adjusted to my preferences of all the buds that I have made that are well over a few hundred...

but, I do not give up anything, I equally enjoy IEM or headphones, I have no reason to keep them away from my side because they indisputably have their use case.


----------



## thedjkhalid

Is this the link of the 600 be?

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255800682227408.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt&_randl_shipto=US

Also, which shell(s) would be an option for a more comfortable fit than the standard mx500?


----------



## drewbadour

thedjkhalid said:


> Is this the link of the 600 be?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255800682227408.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt&_randl_shipto=US
> 
> Also, which shell(s) would be an option for a more comfortable fit than the standard mx500?


https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832774652645.html - NSC Audio is a known entity - I haven't personally heard of the seller that you linked.

Bell shape shells or Qian39 Shell will be more comfortable than MX500 - NSC Audio has a bunch of selections for bell shaped shells - as for Qian39 shells, that has to be harvested from buying an actual Qian39 bud!


----------



## o0genesis0o

ian91 said:


> Megatron drives my Alpha well but I prefer my tube amp. What I've noticed with the Megatron is that, regardless of transducer, it isn't the most revealing source and also plays with the imaging slightly, where elements have less directionality and dimension to them.



Yeah, I also find the same issue. Another issue is that regardless of transducer, Megatron always sound thinner and less bassy. This might be good or bad, depending on the transducers.

Don’t get me wrong, copious amount of power supplied by Megatron does positively improve the sound of many IEMs in my collection comparing to weaker 80mW@32ohm dongles and DAPs, but upon close listening, I found that you get what you pay for. Yes, Megatron drives HD800S nearly as well as Modi+Magni stack, but the sound is not as refined, even comparing to Hidizs S9 Pro.


----------



## thedjkhalid

drewbadour said:


> https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832774652645.html - NSC Audio is a known entity - I haven't personally heard of the seller that you linked.
> 
> Bell shape shells or Qian39 Shell will be more comfortable than MX500 - NSC Audio has a bunch of selections for bell shaped shells - as for Qian39 shells, that has to be harvested from buying an actual Qian39 bud!


Thank you for the link and advice!  

Do you know what acoustic differences would be associated with the specific shells?


----------



## ian91 (Oct 24, 2022)

On the topic of dongles I have been having surprising success with the ACMEE Magic Sound 4S 192k/32bit (I believe I have the AKM chip version prior to the move to ES). It really does have an excellent synergy with the 600ohm Be (somehow?!) and I prefer it to the Megatron. It just about reaches good listening levels for me and seems to keep the Alpha sounding dynamic.  I'm of the opinion this dongle relies heavily on synergy though, I _really_ don't like it with any of my IEMs...


----------



## qua2k

Just received Moonbuds Super Nightingale V2. Very nice pk driver, bass is very nice with these. It didn't come with a Moonbuds case but the leather cord wrap and the little things Moonbud did, branded leather cord wrap, wooden L/R indicators, cord slider, branded on the buds and on the 3.5 termination plug, makes the DIY 'specialness' definitely come through. Sound is great as well haha


----------



## emusic13

AKM Acmee is pretty good with support for 768k, 32bit.


----------



## syazwaned

emusic13 said:


> AKM Acmee is pretty good with support for 768k, 32bit.


Wong Blur also use this dac


----------



## emusic13

syazwaned said:


> Wong Blur also use this dac


Do you know which version? I want to try the ess one


----------



## lanister

fogside said:


> Thank you.my bad
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ksearphone-temperament-db1e.26123/reviews#review-29422
> Correctly review


Can you compare it with Fiio Ff3?


----------



## ian91 (Oct 25, 2022)

emusic13 said:


> AKM Acmee is pretty good with support for 768k, 32bit.



How does the 768k version drive your higher ohm buds? I was trying to work out if it was any more powerful than the 128k version and worth the upgrade.


----------



## emusic13

ian91 said:


> How does the 768k version drive higher your higher ohm buds? I was trying to work out if it was any more powerful than the 128k version and worth the upgrade.


I dont really have any hard to drive buds. The Acmee does scale depending on USB cable though (at least on iphone) It might be worth a try to see if swapping cables makes a difference.


----------



## h8uthemost (Oct 25, 2022)

Well my ry4s and it's cable, both recommended by 4ceratops, arrived today. And I gotta say that Im falling in love with them. I was hoping for a bit more bass, but what was there is fine. The mids and highs is where these really seem to really shine at. Detailed, nice mids. Very happy so far. And I'm loving this cable! Lol

Thank you 4ceratops. Now I have to order the other buds recommended to me. I think the toneking nicehck. Also wanna give the yincrow x6 a try.


----------



## 4ceratops

h8uthemost said:


> Well my ry4s and it's cable, both recommended by 4ceratops, arrived today. And I gotta say that Im falling in love with them. I was hoping for a bit more bass, but what was there is fine. The mids and highs is where these really seem to really shine at. Detailed, nice highs. Very happy so far. And I'm loving this cable! Lol
> 
> Thank you 4ceratops. Now I have to order the other buds recommended to me. I think the toneking nicehck. Also wanna give the yincrow x6 a try.


I'm glad you're happy with the RY4S and the cable. Just related to you mentioning the subjective lack of bass, I wonder if you ordered the RY4S or the bassier RY4S PLUS. Have a great day and lots of great music.


----------



## Ronion

h8uthemost said:


> Well my ry4s and it's cable, both recommended by 4ceratops, arrived today. And I gotta say that Im falling in love with them. I was hoping for a bit more bass, but what was there is fine. The mids and highs is where these really seem to really shine at. Detailed, nice highs. Very happy so far. And I'm loving this cable! Lol
> 
> Thank you 4ceratops. Now I have to order the other buds recommended to me. I think the toneking nicehck. Also wanna give the yincrow x6 a try.


Just buy a Vido.  It’s the same as an X6 but costs less.  The differences are cosmetic.


----------



## h8uthemost (Oct 25, 2022)

4ceratops said:


> I'm glad you're happy with the RY4S and the cable. Just related to you mentioning the subjective lack of bass, I wonder if you ordered the RY4S or the bassier RY4S PLUS. Have a great day and lots of great music.


I actually got the Plus. I used the two links you gave me. I mean the bass is definitely there, it sounds great, but I think my expectations were a little too high. Been listening to these all day and an loving them.

And ronion thanks for your input. I'll go with a vido than. :}


----------



## jogawag (Oct 26, 2022)

The OSTRY KC08A has hardly been discussed in this thread, but I bought a used one in good condition for $33.
The fit is better than the MX500 shell.
Compared to the KC08T, I found the sub-bass a little less subdued, the treble a little sharper and the soundstage a little wider.

In my country's earbuds thread it's considered a transition point for Aurvana air owners, but I think the sub-bass of the KC08A is more increased.

So if you're looking for a slightly flatter KC08T or a transition point for a broken Aurvana air, I'd recommend the KC08A.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Oct 26, 2022)

*@ClieOS by Tai Planar Magnetic Earbud DIY v3* is now available to a lucky few! What an extraordinarily outstanding development this is! Really pushing the flathead tech envelope and to new horizons! Bravo sir! We are all so very impressed.





*ClieOS's Random DIY Build Thread - [Updated: Aug 26th, 22] - Planar Magnetic Earbud DIY V3*

*@EarbudsParadise*


----------



## thegamerulez

Any news on FF5 yet?


----------



## ShaneyMac

thegamerulez said:


> Any news on FF5 yet?


As much as we know, they are estimated to be released in December. They have already postponed the release from September, so...


----------



## digititus

thegamerulez said:


> Any news on FF5 yet?


When all the FF3's have been sold


----------



## ttorbic

Someone shared this on HifiGuides and I thought it was super interesting: .

I moved away from headphones because I didn't like the headband compression and the sweaty ears - maybe I should try those Koss clip-on headphones a try lol. Curious to see how my pinna influences my sound perception


----------



## ian91

ttorbic said:


> Someone shared this on HifiGuides and I thought it was super interesting: .
> 
> I moved away from headphones because I didn't like the headband compression and the sweaty ears - maybe I should try those Koss clip-on headphones a try lol. Curious to see how my pinna influences my sound perception




The KSC75 is a very solid choice for the price especially with a little power behind it. Just beware the bass roll-off, it's like the cliffs at Dover.


----------



## ttorbic

ian91 said:


> The KSC75 is a very solid choice for the price especially with a little power behind it. Just beware the bass roll-off, it's like the cliffs at Dover.


Those are fairly steep precipices lol. I guess they seal even worse than earbuds! 

I'm just going to wait for TGX Ripples 🙌🙌


----------



## Eduardiofilo

Edifier 180 + Avani tonight


----------



## o0genesis0o

digititus said:


> When all the FF3's have been sold



My local hi-fi store is surprised that customers still come to talk about or look for FF3. Usually stuffs are forgotten after a couple weeks. They have new FF3 coming, so at this rate, we might never see FF5   



ian91 said:


> The KSC75 is a very solid choice for the price especially with a little power behind it. Just beware the bass roll-off, it's like the cliffs at Dover.



Are you aware of any DIY shells for this kind of ear-clippy-headphone-thing? I guess 40mm drivers should fit. I think it would be quite fun to build something more rigged and perhaps more bassy, but I have not been able to find any shells on Aliexpress.


----------



## Ronion

ttorbic said:


> Someone shared this on HifiGuides and I thought it was super interesting: .
> 
> I moved away from headphones because I didn't like the headband compression and the sweaty ears - maybe I should try those Koss clip-on headphones a try lol. Curious to see how my pinna influences my sound perception



That’s only partially true.  It’s true in the ‘if you like it, keep it’, and that ‘you can learn how a particular rig translates to you’.  However, it’s important to understand the depth of what’s going on.  Both of my pinna measure differently when measured using my home theater though the speakers measure the same and the layout is symmetrical.  When I take a bud and measure it in my fake right ear and then measure it again in my fake left ear, it’s pinna affected shape measurements change in a manner that is similar to how the measurements differ in my home theater measurements.  Same goes for a bud that was measured on someone else’s pinna rig and then measured on mine.  Same would go for an ear canal.  Knowing what frequency regions are affected by which body part(s) is definitely important when it comes to understanding the limitations of measurements.  the most important about the Harman curve (and all the last 5 decades of psychoacoustic research) is that it demonstrates that despite our anatomical and cultural variance, we tend to like the same or at least similar sound.  So rest assured, measurements are the most honest and even trustworthy thing in the hobby.  Now I wouldn’t look for a particular target curve for your own choice, but knowing how transducers that measure a certain way sound to you and the fit limitations of a transducer and your particular anatomy.  Perceived Resolution and Soundstage are the remaining things you’re going to need subjective impressions for.  Unfortunately, you need to trust the reviewer and they all have influences preventing them from being unbiased.  They are human after all.  Aren’t we all….


----------



## baskingshark

Have any of you earbuds enthusiasts tried the Cat Ear Mimi?

Seems there is a Pro version of this that has just released:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804649662389.html

$17 USD


----------



## forestitalia

baskingshark said:


> Have any of you earbuds enthusiasts tried the Cat Ear Mimi?


I had,  nice buds for the price, less than $10, but no special, plus one side has broken, is rattling loud.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

WoodyLuvr said:


> *@ClieOS by Tai Planar Magnetic Earbud DIY v3* is now available to a lucky few! What an extraordinarily outstanding development this is! Really pushing the flathead tech envelope and to new horizons! Bravo sir! We are all so very impressed.
> 
> 
> *ClieOS's Random DIY Build Thread - [Updated: Aug 26th, 22] - Planar Magnetic Earbud DIY V3*
> ...






Second batch is open for pre-order...


----------



## thedjkhalid (Nov 7, 2022)

Just got my Smabat M4 in with the 150Ohm BG driver... and immediately I hear the channel imbalance.  

Not too noticeable after listening after a while.

Anyone have some PEQ for it?  Right now I'm doing -6.0db at 2700Hz and +2.0db at 5000Hz.  Also I saw some posts about the tuning filters, but I only have what they came with.  Would it be suggested to remove it?


----------



## o0genesis0o

thedjkhalid said:


> Just got my Smabat M4 in with the 150Ohm BG driver... and immediately I hear the channel imbalance.
> 
> Not too noticeable after listening after a while.
> 
> Anyone have some PEQ for it?  Right now I'm doing -6.0db at 2800Hz and +1.0db at 5000Hz.  Also I saw some posts about the tuning filters, but I only have what they came with.  Would it be suggested to remove it?



I’m working on a review of M4. Smabat has already sent me a replacement set but the channel imbalance is still there, so I think it is a design flaw. 

Tuning filters don’t do as much as I hope. Essentially, the lower the filter type, the higher midbass hump AND ear-gain becomes with a deeper dip around 1kHz. Type 1 and Type 2 filters do not change much. Type 3 dampens the ear gain reasonably, but the bass is also reduced and the tonality of some drivers becomes kind of odd. In no configuration you can change significantly from the Smabat house sound.

Removing the filter can intensify the channel imbalance effect, so I don’t recommend.


----------



## thedjkhalid

o0genesis0o said:


> I’m working on a review of M4. Smabat has already sent me a replacement set but the channel imbalance is still there, so I think it is a design flaw.
> 
> Tuning filters don’t do as much as I hope. Essentially, the lower the filter type, the higher midbass hump AND ear-gain becomes with a deeper dip around 1kHz. Type 1 and Type 2 filters do not change much. Type 3 dampens the ear gain reasonably, but the bass is also reduced and the tonality of some drivers becomes kind of odd. In no configuration you can change significantly from the Smabat house sound.
> 
> Removing the filter can intensify the channel imbalance effect, so I don’t recommend.


Yeah I definitely won't be messing with the filters in that case.


----------



## Buchi

drewbadour said:


> https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832774652645.html - NSC Audio is a known entity - I haven't personally heard of the seller that you linked.
> 
> Bell shape shells or Qian39 Shell will be more comfortable than MX500 - NSC Audio has a bunch of selections for bell shaped shells - as for Qian39 shells, that has to be harvested from buying an actual Qian39 bud!


I noticed there is another 600ohm by the same store. I'm wondering what the difference is between the two.

The link to the driver 👉https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNlfmxA


----------



## barato

seems like it's the same driver


----------



## drewbadour

Buchi said:


> I noticed there is another 600ohm by the same store. I'm wondering what the difference is between the two.
> 
> The link to the driver 👉https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNlfmxA


It is the same driver! They must have accidentally created two listings.


----------



## Ronion

2 different drivers, 2 different shells, and 2 different tuning approaches.  Can anyone tell the tonal differences between the 2?  Now can anyone tell the resolution and soundstage?  This is how useful graphs are.


----------



## baskingshark

Ronion said:


> 2 different drivers, 2 different shells, and 2 different tuning approaches.  Can anyone tell the tonal differences between the 2?  Now can anyone tell the resolution and soundstage?  This is how useful graphs are.



Yeah graphs are useful to tell the rough tonality and FR of a transducer, but it doesn't tell the full story.

Standard graphs can't really inform us 100% on a transducer's technicalities - soundstage, timbral accuracy, transients, imaging, instrument separation. Some of these can perhaps be hinted but not 100% confirmed until listening. I guess graphs are a good gatekeeper to see if you will like or dislike the tonality, but other than that, it ain't telling everything.

For example, for IEMs, 2 graphs can graph similarly, but BA bass and DD bass in general sound very different, even if the graphs show the same amount of bass quantities. Generally, BA bass sounds lacking in decay and movement of air, unless if it is vented.

2 IEMs can graph similarly, one has BA timbre due to BAs used, while a single DD of the same graph may sound more natural for acoustic instruments.





The TOTL Final Audio A8000 graphs similarly to the KZ ZSN Pro. But the A8000 is leagues ahead in timbral accuracy and technicalities (soundstage, imaging, instrument separation, micro-detailing, transients).





Tonally, while the Olina and Oxygen are similar as the graphs suggest, on actual A/B testing, the Oxygen sounds smoother, being less bright/sibilant and causing less fatigue than the Olina during longer listening sessions. In terms of timbral accuracy, the Oxygen is more natural sounding, with the Olina sounding nasal. The Olina also has a less tight bass; the low frequencies sound a bit undefined and lacking texture compared to the tighter and cleaner bass of the Oxygen.



I've met some folks on forums that claim they can EQ any IEM to sound like a TOTL IEM. Well if that were the case, why not just buy a $1 budget bin IEM and EQ it to a QDC Anole VX and call it a day? Some transducers cannot take too robust EQ and distort, and you can't EQ away bad timbre or technicalities.


----------



## Ronion

baskingshark said:


> Yeah graphs are useful to tell the rough tonality and FR of a transducer, but it doesn't tell the full story.
> 
> Standard graphs can't really inform us 100% on a transducer's technicalities - soundstage, timbral accuracy, transients, imaging, instrument separation. Some of these can perhaps be hinted but not 100% confirmed until listening. I guess graphs are a good gatekeeper to see if you will like or dislike the tonality, but other than that, it ain't telling everything.
> 
> ...


Exactly . Beautifully stated!


----------



## o0genesis0o

baskingshark said:


> Yeah graphs are useful to tell the rough tonality and FR of a transducer, but it doesn't tell the full story.
> 
> Standard graphs can't really inform us 100% on a transducer's technicalities - soundstage, timbral accuracy, transients, imaging, instrument separation. Some of these can perhaps be hinted but not 100% confirmed until listening. I guess graphs are a good gatekeeper to see if you will like or dislike the tonality, but other than that, it ain't telling everything.
> 
> ...


Did you read my mind? I was thinking about the guy who came and made fun of folks at Final Audio thread that their precious A8000 graphs like a KZ


----------



## Ronion (Oct 30, 2022)

You can definitely tell a lot about the experience of commenters when they think you can EQ one speaker to sound exactly like another.  They do believe what they say.  Problem is: other people without much experience will read scientific sounding commentators say it’s all visible in the frequency response and can be inclined to believe them.  Both sides of this coin are confused and mucking this up for sanity: the ones who say measurements are useless and the ones that say measurements are everything.  The problem really lies in the difficulties of isolating what variables lead to a perception of detail or soundstage.  Maybe that research has been done, but I don’t know of it.  I’m sure Sennheiser has worked on it with some degree of success and came up with the HD800, but they’re not making this information publicly available that I’m aware of…. I know some things that have worked for me, but wether it’s not some other factor is impossible for me to say.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Oct 28, 2022)

Ronion said:


> You can definitely tell a lot about the experience of commenters when they think you can EQ one speaker to sound exactly like another.  They do believe what they say.  Problem is: other people without much experience and read scientific sounding commentators say it’s all visible in the frequency response and can be inclined to believe them.  Both sides of this coin are confused and mucking this up for sanity: the ones who say measurements are useless and the ones that say measurements are everything.  The problem really lies in the difficulties of isolating what variables lead to a perception of detail or soundstage.  Maybe that research has been done, but I don’t know of it.  I’m sure Sennheiser has worked on it with some degree of success and came up with the HD800, but they’re not making this information publicly available that I’m aware of…. I know some things that have worked for me, but wether it’s not some other factor is impossible for me to say.


Seeing you reminds me to share with you this video from Knowles:


Interestingly enough, the treble / air preference (deviations from Harman) closely matches what some IEMs companies like 64 Audio have been doing for a while. Essentially, if you want "hi-fi" sound, boost 16k quite a bit   But do not let the boost reaches all the way to 8k, though, otherwise you will have horrible metallic sound like old KZ IEMs.

Edit: my coupler definitely not built for the purpose, so no idea how correct it is. However, I always see deep 10k notch and 16k peak across all of my earbud measurements. The secret behind earbuds soundstage imaging? Who knows. They sound good. 

Edit 2: I did some "tests" with my colleagues (casual listeners) and found that most of them do not find earbuds hi-fi or "audiophile" regardless of FF3 or VE Master. But all of them were immediately impressed by Moondrop Blessing 2 (Harman-ish with great isolation) and said that they are willing to pay AUD $450 for that kind of sound. I don't know the conclusion nor the point, but I find the whole "test" interesting


----------



## Ronion

I'm not surprised.  I used to boost that region when I was into IEM by 3dB, but I used a little narrower Q on pretty much every IEM I have.  Some I only boosted 1 or 2 dB, but generally 3.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Seeing you reminds me to share with you this video from Knowles:
> 
> 
> Interestingly enough, the treble / air preference (deviations from Harman) closely matches what some IEMs companies like 64 Audio have been doing for a while. Essentially, if you want "hi-fi" sound, boost 16k quite a bit   But do not let the boost reaches all the way to 8k, though, otherwise you will have horrible metallic sound like old KZ IEMs.
> ...



It also tells us that the Harman Curve isn’t the “end all, be all” when it comes to preference either.  It’s definitely not ”reference“….  Under the given parameters, 69% of the people preferred it.  That’s really all it tells us.  As cool as it is that under those unusual circumstances with the world’s worst IEM (kidding), most people liked the same thing.  Still, that just doesn’t tell us too much, but it’s further along than we’ve been before in the headphone world.


----------



## cqtek

Hello to all.

I just posted my humble opinion on the Smabat M4.

I hope you like it.

I wish you all a happy Halloween. Or, failing that, whatever local holiday you celebrate in your country. In mine this Halloween is a foreign holiday and our celebration is different. But advertising invades everything and the "foreign novelty" is imposed on traditions. A pity.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-m4.26146/reviews#review-29471


----------



## o0genesis0o (Oct 30, 2022)

cqtek said:


> Hello to all.
> 
> I just posted my humble opinion on the Smabat M4.
> 
> ...



Mate, you are fast   I’m sitting here with all the drivers, procrastinating for weeks now.

Some points:

Absolutely agree about the transparent and crisp midrange. I hate it less after spending more time listening to it seriously with the Type 3 filter.
The type 2.5 filter is included in new batch of filters now.
I think some drivers that are hard to screw on are defective, either at the threads or the o-ring. Smabat sent me a replacement set of all drivers, and the ones with black o-rings work well. The ones with white o-rings are still troublesome.
Edit: something is wrong with your BA pair? My unit has nice channel matching all the way down.


----------



## cqtek

o0genesis0o said:


> Mate, you are fast   I’m sitting here with all the drivers, procrastinating for weeks now.
> 
> Some points:
> 
> ...


Thank you for the added notes.
It's nice to see that they included the 2.5 type damper in the new parts.
It's also good that they have improved the screw, I still think one more turn would have been safer. But aluminium is still a "soft" material in that respect.


----------



## tendou

Those who have asura 3.0 FE. Does it have pinna gain? What kind of pinna gain does it have, if any?  I have the asura 3.0 FE but I don't know much about audio terminology and science. So can someone educate me about this?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Hey fellas, long time no talk. My record co decided to review my forum and social media accounts so I haven't been able to access head fi or discord for a while, but I just got head fi cleared and hopefully I'll have discord back this afternoon or tomorrow morning.

I see I've got like 20+ pages to catch up on, but I just wanted to say that I missed you guys and I'm back.

While I was away I put together a DIY 300ohm LCP version of the NSC Audio Copper shelled buds and I braided an 8 core gold and black cable in mmcx for it. I am actually making some adjustments to it this morning and I'll post pics in a little bit. I have to say, I REALLY dig these shells for DIYing. They're very versatile having quite a bit of room on the inside for various tuning features and being made out of a relatively thick copper makes attaching things like baffles and wave guides very easy to do.

I hope everyone has been well while I've been away!


----------



## KokushiTsumo

JAnonymous5150 said:


> My record co decided to review my forum and social media accounts


Um, what.


----------



## barato

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hey fellas, long time no talk. My record co decided to review my forum and social media accounts so I haven't been able to access head fi or discord for a while, but I just got head fi cleared and hopefully I'll have discord back this afternoon or tomorrow morning.
> 
> I see I've got like 20+ pages to catch up on, but I just wanted to say that I missed you guys and I'm back.
> 
> ...


How are you finding the sound quality of 300ohm LCP? got the same one on the way, should be here soon.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

barato said:


> How are you finding the sound quality of 300ohm LCP? got the same one on the way, should be here soon.



It's not these easiest driver to get the best out of, but if you're patient and you work with it the 300ohm LCP has a lot to offer. It's capable of rraching deep and giving you as much bass as you want. The mids are actually the easiest part as they seem to tend towards a natutal linearity from the jump. The treble requires some work as it tends to roll off early and when you get it to open up you have to do a lot of adjustments to refine it. 

That said, the 300 LCP also has that wonderful punchy, slightly warm, and articulate quality that makes LCP drivers amongst my favorite to begin with. Mind you, I am saying this having only used the 300 LCP in a quickie MX500 build that I was just playing with and the build I'm working on now so I'm not exactly an expert lol! 😉


----------



## JAnonymous5150

KokushiTsumo said:


> Um, what.



My contract has clauses that allow them to review social media activity to confirm that I am keeping accounts private or anonymous. It's a long story...


----------



## KokushiTsumo

JAnonymous5150 said:


> My contract has clauses that allow them to review social media activity to confirm that I am keeping accounts private or anonymous. It's a long story...


Ah, didn't realize, sorry if it came across as rude.
Anyways welcome back!


----------



## Chessnaudio

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hey fellas, long time no talk. My record co decided to review my forum and social media accounts so I haven't been able to access head fi or discord for a while, but I just got head fi cleared and hopefully I'll have discord back this afternoon or tomorrow morning.
> 
> I see I've got like 20+ pages to catch up on, but I just wanted to say that I missed you guys and I'm back.
> 
> ...


Welcome back. I noticed a new presence on other forums lol.


----------



## barato (Oct 30, 2022)

Do you use foams with them?
On Apple earpod I found removing the mesh filter on the nozzle seem give a little more bite and general clarity to the sound without compromising the seal and losing body and bass extension (although the mesh was helping reduce some of roughness) , so based on your comments Ill add an opening on the MX500 front cover where it sits in the ear canal and see if it can help with treble for LCP, although tiny holes on MX500 cover may not be behaving in same way as mesh.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

KokushiTsumo said:


> Ah, didn't realize, sorry if it came across as rude.
> Anyways welcome back!



Not rude at all. It's a weird situation so I expect the occasional question.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Chessnaudio said:


> Welcome back. I noticed a new presence on other forums lol.



Yeah, I opened an account of HifiGuides to get my forum fix. It's more slow paced which worked out well because we were wrapping up recording the last couple weeks. The whole thing actually worked out pretty well.

Figures I would join a new forum and run across a killer deal on some ThieAudio Excaliburs like right away. Just my luck! The funny thing is I have been low key keeping my eye out for a pair because I really wanted to try one after owning and selling the Oracles.

Either way, it's nice to be back on my home thread! 😍


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hey fellas, long time no talk. My record co decided to review my forum and social media accounts so I haven't been able to access head fi or discord for a while, but I just got head fi cleared and hopefully I'll have discord back this afternoon or tomorrow morning.
> 
> I see I've got like 20+ pages to catch up on, but I just wanted to say that I missed you guys and I'm back.
> 
> ...


Alright rock star, welcome back   

300ohm LCP is Serratus drivers, right? I’m planning to get that one to see how close I can get to Serratus as an exercise. Thinking about the 500ohm used by @Ronion as well. The guy does not sell his buds, so I figure I’ll just make one myself


----------



## JAnonymous5150

barato said:


> Do you use foams with them?
> On Apple earpod I found removing the mesh filter on the nozzle seem give a little more bite and general clarity to the sound without compromising the seal and losing body and bass extension (although the mesh was helping reduce some of roughness) , so based on your comments Ill add an opening on the MX500 front cover where it sits in the ear canal and see if it can help with treble for LCP, although tiny holes on MX500 cover may not be behaving in same way as mesh.



If you were asking me, I use donut foams on the 300 LCPs I'm working on right now.


----------



## o0genesis0o

tendou said:


> Those who have asura 3.0 FE. Does it have pinna gain? What kind of pinna gain does it have, if any?  I have the asura 3.0 FE but I don't know much about audio terminology and science. So can someone educate me about this?


Likely, given the subjective descriptions of Asura that I have seen.

Essentially, your head and ears amplify frequencies around 2-3kHz. IEMs and headphones bypass this amplification, so they need to increase the loudness of these frequencies to compensate. If they don’t, the midrange can sound distant and fuzzy (that’s why JH Audio IEMs without ear gain are described as having giant soundstage with kind of “analog” fuzziness). Pushing the ear gain too far (like Smabat) and you will have closed in, shrill or shouty (too loud) midrange.

How much is enough? Depends on you. 10dB at 3k is generally safe and seems to work with more people. My buds tuned with 8db ear gain are considered muddy and blunt by many casual listeners (my colleagues).

@Ronion knows more about this topic than I do. He can explain to you.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Alright rock star, welcome back
> 
> 300ohm LCP is Serratus drivers, right? I’m planning to get that one to see how close I can get to Serratus as an exercise. Thinking about the 500ohm used by @Ronion as well. The guy does not sell his buds, so I figure I’ll just make one myself



I actually didn't know that Serratus used a 300 LCP, but based on what I'm hearing and what I've been able to pull out of this driver it doesn't surprise me at all. It's a very versatile driver and with enough patience and tweaking you can get it to take on a number of tuning profiles with equal detail and aplomb. It has that nice snappy, but smooth character that makes LCP drivers sound so fun and refined at the same time, IMO.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Oct 30, 2022)

BTW, I ended up selling quite a few buds over the last couple of weeks to make room for my own DIY buds and I also ended up trading a set for a pair of Cypherus Audio QFreds. If anyone's interested I'll post a short impressions post in the next few days as I haven't had much down time for listening, but I expect to have a few days with some downtime.

So far I am quite impressed by them as I have been with the other two sets Cypherus Audio buds I already had. Herry (@Cyperus ) really knows how to make some special earbuds. People can argue back and forth all they want about how expensive they are, but once you listen to them there's no denying that the man makes some of the best buds out there. Period.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Oct 30, 2022)

One last BTW, for those of you that liked listening to Polyphia's album New Levels New Devils (or as @o0genesis0o calls it "the G.O.A.T. album" 😉) on your FF3s, they released a new album entitled Remember That You Will Die. I'm listening to it for the first time right now on some Hifimans while making adjustments to my DIY buds and it has a different feel to it, but it seems like another fun genre bender that I can't help but think woukd be so much fun to listen to on the FF3s. Just an FYI for those interested.

Edit: A lot of hip hop influenced tracks on this one. All pretty fun so far.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> One last BTW, for those of you that liked listening to Polyphia's album New Levels New Devils (or as @o0genesis0o calls it "the G.O.A.T. album" 😉) on your FF3s, they released a new album entitled Remember That You Will Die. I'm listening to it for the first time right now on some Hifimans while making adjustments to my DIY buds and it has a different feel to it, but it seems like another fun genre bender that I can't help but think woukd be so much fun to listen to on the FF3s. Just an FYI for those interested.
> 
> Edit: A lot of hip hop influenced tracks on this one. All pretty fun so far.


I don’t think the artists would be happy if they know that I use their album exclusively for testing audio gears


----------



## baskingshark

o0genesis0o said:


> I don’t think the artists would be happy if they know that I use their album exclusively for testing audio gears



*WHAT IS AN AUDIOPHILE?*
Someone who uses music to listen to their IEM/headphones, instead of using IEMs/headphones to listen to music.


----------



## o0genesis0o

baskingshark said:


> *WHAT IS AN AUDIOPHILE?*
> Someone who uses music to listen to their IEM/headphones, instead of using IEMs/headphones to listen to music.


You buy gear to listen to music.
I buy music to listen to gear.
We are not the same.

(Low effort meme)


----------



## Ronion

My stash of DIY buds from the last 2 weeks.  I’ve put some work into these!  All different drivers, all individually tuned to a close approximation of my target curve.  I won’t say they are all done, but they are all very good at this point and several will be going out as gifts.  A few of them will only leave my hands when they turn room temperature.  Open, spacious and extended each and every one.  I like that LCP (but accidentally left it out of this photo!) a lot as well @JAnonymous5150, but I believe the Serratus is the 300 Blue PET @o0genesis0o (a driver I’ve never tried).  I have the 32 Ohm version of that driver and though it has its good points, I despise its treble character.  I even changed its faceplate, but nothing I have tried fixes it.  It’s the only driver I’ve ever given up on and couldn’t make something I enjoyed thoroughly with it.  I also built a metal shelled bud 2 days ago, but tuning it is going to take a bit more time to say the least.  One thing I can say for sure: there are differences between these that cannot be accounted for in a frequency response graph.  Now that I have so many that are tightly tuned, I’m going to start looking more heavily into time oriented graphs to see if I can’t find something interesting.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Oct 31, 2022)

Ronion said:


> My stash of DIY buds from the last 2 weeks.  I’ve put some work into these!  All different drivers, all individually tuned to a close approximation of my target curve.  I won’t say they are all done, but they are all very good at this point and several will be going out as gifts.  A few of them will only leave my hands when they turn room temperature.  Open, spacious and extended each and every one.  I like that LCP (but accidentally left it out of this photo!) a lot as well @JAnonymous5150, but I believe the Serratus is the 300 Blue PET @o0genesis0o (a driver I’ve never tried).  I have the 32 Ohm version of that driver and though it has its good points, I despise its treble character.  I even changed its faceplate, but nothing I have tried fixes it.  It’s the only driver I’ve ever given up on and couldn’t make something I enjoyed thoroughly with it.  I also built a metal shelled bud 2 days ago, but tuning it is going to take a bit more time to say the least.  One thing I can say for sure: there are differences between these that cannot be accounted for in a frequency response graph.  Now that I have so many that are tightly tuned, I’m going to start looking more heavily into time oriented graphs to see if I can’t find something interesting.



Some lucky folks about to get pair by our very own Ronion. I myself am working to get better so I can get together some pairs I'm comfortable sending out. I have a way to go yet, but will admit that I am pleasantly surprised by what I have been able to do with the buds I have worked on so far. I'm definitely further along than I would have guessed before I sat down and worked on a pair patiently to completion.

Thus far, I have to day that I prefer these copper shells from NSC Audio to MX500s so I just ordered a lot more of them. After I finish this 300ohm LCP pair (hopefully in the next few hours) I'm planning either an MX500 or PK build next maybe with the 130Be driver. We'll see...🤔


----------



## Ronion

I bought that copper shell as well . It just arrived.  Hopefully I'll have the mustard to do some work on it, but I want to be sure all of my recent creations are complete and I'm not overlooking something.  I know the 300LCP and 600Be are mine forever  I would run that LCP a while before you tune it.  I have evidence that it changes quite a bit when you just start using it--at least over the first 20 hours.  Then several hours later it also looks to be gaining bass.  




Now if only my Megatron would get here....


----------



## tendou

o0genesis0o said:


> Likely, given the subjective descriptions of Asura that I have seen.
> 
> Essentially, your head and ears amplify frequencies around 2-3kHz. IEMs and headphones bypass this amplification, so they need to increase the loudness of these frequencies to compensate. If they don’t, the midrange can sound distant and fuzzy (that’s why JH Audio IEMs without ear gain are described as having giant soundstage with kind of “analog” fuzziness). Pushing the ear gain too far (like Smabat) and you will have closed in, shrill or shouty (too loud) midrange.
> 
> ...


 Thanks! I understand a bit more now


----------



## o0genesis0o (Oct 31, 2022)

Since Megatron is pretty much the darling of earbud geeks, I’ll drop my updated impressions here:

In summary: it sounds fizzy fuzzy and kinda dirty, but charming in its own way. I suspect that this has noise nearly all the way to audible region even with harder to drive stuffs. Next to my S9 Pro, the difference in the darkness of the background (and thus soundstage “depth”) is noticeable. But at the same time, there is something raw and “real” about Megatron.

I guess it’s kind of like analog film vs digital sensor, you know? I like pairing Megatron with ancient CDs from my local library.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Since Megatron is pretty much the darling of earbud geeks, I’ll drop my impressions updated impressions here:
> 
> In summary: it sounds fizzy fuzzy and kinda dirty, but charming in its own way. I suspect that this has noise nearly all the way to audible region even with harder to drive stuffs. Next to my S9 Pro, the difference in the darkness of the background (and thus soundstage “depth”) is noticeable. But at the same time, there is something raw and “real” about Megatron.
> 
> I guess it’s kind of like analog film vs digital sensor, you know? I like pairing Megatron with ancient CDs from my local library.


That’s kind of how my e12MB was in all its glory.  The A5 is crazy clean but for some reason I just don’t enjoy it as much.  The A5 is definitely the better amp technically speaking and still running strong.  The Megatron is on its way due to the e12’s demise so this post gets me excited.


----------



## drewbadour

o0genesis0o said:


> I don’t think the artists would be happy if they know that I use their album exclusively for testing audio gears


Happy or not, I just got an email from Spotify that I am among the "top listeners of Polyphia in the world" because I use a couple of their tracks to test my audio gear hahaha.


----------



## Ronion (Oct 31, 2022)

@JAnonymous5150, I would definitely run that thing a while before you do a final tuning.  It still seems to be changing unless I got a lemon.  Since both keep changing in the same way at the same time I doubt it’s a lemon.  Of course I could have gotten lemons…. LOL. I’m not going to touch these again until it settles down.  I’ve never had a driver do this before FWIW.


----------



## jkc1

drewbadour said:


> Happy or not, I just got an email from Spotify that I am among the "top listeners of Polyphia in the world" because I use a couple of their tracks to test my audio gear hahaha.


NICE, I really like Polyphia! Which tracks do you use for testing gear? I really like 40oz, GOAT, Lit, James Franco, Euphoria, and Playing God


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Oct 31, 2022)

drewbadour said:


> Happy or not, I just got an email from Spotify that I am among the "top listeners of Polyphia in the world" because I use a couple of their tracks to test my audio gear hahaha.



Nice to know I helped make a few Polyphia fans with my recs! 🤘😎

For anyone who's interested here are pics of my 300ohm LCP driver DIY buds in the NSC Audio copper shells and the black and gold 8 core SPC MMCX cable terminated 3.5mm that I made to go along with them. I call them the Lush, Crisp, and Punchy 300s (Get it? LCP 300 😜):











BTW, sorry for the terrible lighting and dirty fingernails. It has been a long day in my shop and it's not done yet so I just snapped a couple pics real quick so I could get back to work. Didn't have time for the full mani/pedi and photo shoot for you guys lol! 😜😂😎

Edit: I actually managed to keep my fingernails out of it and forgot lol!


----------



## chinmie

drewbadour said:


> Happy or not, I just got an email from Spotify that I am among the "top listeners of Polyphia in the world" because I use a couple of their tracks to test my audio gear hahaha.



I listen to Polyphia because my son likes them and recommends it to me and I quite enjoy it too, though for me personally i like Chon, Toe, and Ichika Nito sound more


----------



## o0genesis0o

drewbadour said:


> Happy or not, I just got an email from Spotify that I am among the "top listeners of Polyphia in the world" because I use a couple of their tracks to test my audio gear hahaha.








j/k. Great album


----------



## JAnonymous5150

chinmie said:


> I listen to Polyphia because my son likes them and recommends it to me and I quite enjoy it too, though for me personally i like Chon, Toe, and Ichika Nito sound more



Chon is another one of my favorite along with Panzerballett which is a German band that blends so many genres in their instrumental work that it can be hard to keep up. Some of their work is jazzy, some funky, some metal, some djent, etc, but it's all very good. Check them out and let me know what you think.


----------



## Ronion

This is how tightly I have all those at the moment.

my favorites look like this:




I forgot to throw in the new Blue Coned 300 Ohm Bio-looking driver.




any of these are lovable.  The 300 LCP is going to get more work in a few weeks.


----------



## Ronion

Okay, one of those LCP died tonight.  I have many LCPs, but this is the first one that died on me so I don’t think it’s a fragile driver or anything like that.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> Okay, one of those LCP died tonight.  I have many LCPs, but this is the first one that died on me so I don’t think it’s a fragile driver or anything like that.



Sorry to hear that bro. Mine have 96 hours of burn in time on them, plus another 10 or so of listening over the last week and a half as I have been working on them and I still feel like they're opening up a bit. Not so much that I'm feeling a need to make any adjustments, but just settling into their smoothness a bit still. You and whoever else warned me about the burn in time (maybe Fran, but not sure until I have discord back) were definitely right about them. 

The natural character of these drivers fits my preferences for presentation, note weight, and definition so perfectly. I couldn't be happier with how these buds have turned out. I think I might even break out the measurement rig at some point this week just so I can graph these for reference.

So do you tune all your buds to the same target (or try to) or is the variance reflected in your graphs the result of some systematic differences you're working unto them?


----------



## FranQL (Nov 1, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Nice to know I helped make a few Polyphia fans with my recs! 🤘😎
> 
> For anyone who's interested here are pics of my 300ohm LCP driver DIY buds in the NSC Audio copper shells and the black and gold 8 core SPC MMCX cable terminated 3.5mm that I made to go along with them. I call them the Lush, Crisp, and Punchy 300s (Get it? LCP 300 😜):
> 
> ...


Amazing DIY work! I understand that they will sound even better than they look!!!!!

You nail dirty and more or less long are part of the hobby! and broken too!


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Sorry to hear that bro. Mine have 96 hours of burn in time on them, plus another 10 or so of listening over the last week and a half as I have been working on them and I still feel like they're opening up a bit. Not so much that I'm feeling a need to make any adjustments, but just settling into their smoothness a bit still. You and whoever else warned me about the burn in time (maybe Fran, but not sure until I have discord back) were definitely right about them.
> 
> The natural character of these drivers fits my preferences for presentation, note weight, and definition so perfectly. I couldn't be happier with how these buds have turned out. I think I might even break out the measurement rig at some point this week just so I can graph these for reference.
> 
> So do you tune all your buds to the same target (or try to) or is the variance reflected in your graphs the result of some systematic differences you're working unto them?


Thank you brother.  Fortunately I bought 2 pairs 

That question sounds biblical 😆 I tune them as close to my target to start for the most part because it works pretty well for all recordings.  The little variances are mostly there d/t inherent characteristics of the driver interacting with my subjective improvement from the different drivers.  Tuning an earbud is like playing whack-a-Mole with the frequency response or distortion levels.  Basically, I get them close to my target and tweak from there to taste.  let’s say a particular driver has a bit too much midbass when the pinna gain is pristine, but I can’t get both 100% ideal at the same time.  I may add a little treble to balance it out subjectively…. Things like that.  As long as no one thing is left unbalanced, life is good.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> Tuning an earbud is like playing whack-a-Mole with the frequency response or distortion levels.



I couldn't have said it better myself. I thought your graphs likely reflected differences due to the inherent properties and challenges posed by each driver, but I didn't want to assume. Plus, knowing how much more scientific you get with your tuning/builds, I figured there was at least a chance that you were employing some systematic changes/differences to experiment.

When I purchased my first round of drivers I bought ateast two pairs of each one I bought because I wasn't sure how delicate they were or what the failure rates were like. Thus far, I haven't had a problem with anything except on driver that got a little mangled in shipping.


----------



## ttorbic (Nov 1, 2022)

Got my 75 Ohm impedance adaptor and mic from VE for ~£5. Haven't managed to test the adaptor with the Megatron but will share thoughts when I can. Not really sure if the mic can be used with the Megatron?


----------



## Ronion

ttorbic said:


> Got my 75 Ohm impedance adaptor and mic from VE for ~£5. Haven't managed to test the adaptor with the Megatron but will share thoughts when I can. Not really sure if the mic can be used with the Megatron?


I did see a picture of it plugged in to the Megatron.  It would be cool if it worked simultaneously with a set of buds….


----------



## ttorbic

Ronion said:


> I did see a picture of it plugged in to the Megatron.  It would be cool if it worked simultaneously with a set of buds….


Apparently it works when plugged into 3.5mm. but it means only the balanced output can be used for earphones


----------



## Ronion

ttorbic said:


> Apparently it works when plugged into 3.5mm. but it means only the balanced output can be used for earphones


That’s actually very cool! Have you tried it?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

ttorbic said:


> Got my 75 Ohm impedance adaptor and mic from VE for ~£5. Haven't managed to test the adaptor with the Megatron but will share thoughts when I can. Not really sure if the mic can be used with the Megatron?



I have a couple different impedance adapters I have used with the Megatron, but I didn't know VE made one. I'm actually waiting for a vendor on AE yo get back to me about whether or not he is down to make me a couple for the 4.4mm output as well because the only ones I have and can find are for 3.5mm output. They work great for using lower impedance transducers on the Megatron in a pinch.


----------



## ttorbic

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I have a couple different impedance adapters I have used with the Megatron, but I didn't know VE made one. I'm actually waiting for a vendor on AE yo get back to me about whether or not he is down to make me a couple for the 4.4mm output as well because the only ones I have and can find are for 3.5mm output. They work great for using lower impedance transducers on the Megatron in a pinch.


Yeah VE released it very recently! Comes packaged with the mic for 5 USD lol. Waiting for someone to graph with and without the impedance!


----------



## ttorbic

Ronion said:


> That’s actually very cool! Have you tried it?


Not yet sorry but will report back once i have!


----------



## KokushiTsumo

ttorbic said:


> Not yet sorry but will report back once i have!


I have one on the way, it'd be awesome if you could also comment on the mic quality


----------



## assassin10000

ttorbic said:


> Apparently it works when plugged into 3.5mm. but it means only the balanced output can be used for earphones


Uhhh. I'm guessing you meant single ended, not balanced.


----------



## tgx78

Forgot I made this 300ohm LCP buds before. It is single ended so I have to literally max out the volume on my iPhone dongle but it sounds quite nice. Soundstage is really wide and deep too.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

tgx78 said:


> Forgot I made this 300ohm LCP buds before. It is single ended so I have to literally max out the volume on my iPhone dongle but it sounds quite nice. Soundstage is really wide and deep too.



Yeah, the soundstage is pretty big in all directions on the 300ohm LCP I just finished and posted yesterday. I absolutely loved working with this driver. It's just has so many great attributes and it's capable of being tweaked so many different ways. I'm going to try a different driver for my next build (still deciding), but I ordered several more pairs of the 300 LCP because I'm already looking forward to working with it again in the future.


----------



## waynes world (Nov 2, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hey fellas, long time no talk. My record co decided to review my forum and social media accounts so I haven't been able to access head fi or discord for a while, but I just got head fi cleared and hopefully I'll have discord back this afternoon or tomorrow morning.





JAnonymous5150 said:


> My contract has clauses that allow them to review social media activity to confirm that I am keeping accounts private or anonymous. It's a long story...





Spoiler: Welcome to the machine!








I've been in the process of moving and am way behind on posts as well, but glad to see you're back


----------



## oopeteroo

Hi 
I need some help 

1. I want to buy a pair of earbud that is easy to drive. Will use it with Sansa clip or phone.
I'm looking for something for female vocal, asian-pop music, anime music, ballad, acoustic. I love female vocal and heard the k's eaphone lbbs is best for female vocals at it's price? Do u guys recommend it or anything else ? I'm willing to pay max 50-60 usd as I think I saw lbbs at that price right now on sale? Would be great if it's less 

2. I'm also looking for an earbud as a gift. But it needs to have a mic and use usb-c.
It will be used with a cellphone  

Thanks in advance


----------



## Ronion

oopeteroo said:


> Hi
> I need some help
> 
> 1. I want to buy a pair of earbud that is easy to drive. Will use it with Sansa clip or phone.
> ...


Any chance you live in the Bay Area?  I would give you my LBBs.  Lucky you with a Sansa Clip!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

waynes world said:


> Spoiler: Welcome to the machine!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




LOL 😂 So perfect and so true. Thanks, bro!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

oopeteroo said:


> Hi
> I need some help
> 
> 1. I want to buy a pair of earbud that is easy to drive. Will use it with Sansa clip or phone.
> ...



You could also look at the Music Maker Toneking Tomahawk which is very adept at female vocals in particular. I have only heard the LBBS once a few months ago so I can't really tell you which would be better, but I remember the LBBs having a sound that would suit the female vocals very well too.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

I have a pair of buds coming in with an order today that have the Qigom 300 driver in them. Anybody have any experience with this driver? I got them on AliExpress (CKLewis Audio Store) and figured if the buds arent good, I'd harvest the driver because I thought I remembered heatding good things about the S300 which these appear to be a version or copy of according to the ad. I'm just curious, but I guess we'll see pretty soon.


----------



## FranQL (Nov 2, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I have a pair of buds coming in with an order today that have the Qigom 300 driver in them. Anybody have any experience with this driver? I got them on AliExpress (CKLewis Audio Store) and figured if the buds arent good, I'd harvest the driver because I thought I remembered heatding good things about the S300 which these appear to be a version or copy of according to the ad. I'm just curious, but I guess we'll see pretty soon.



Mmmmm is 300 WG (White glue).... Mehhh

https://a.aliexpress.com/_EHFGSAh


----------



## h8uthemost

oopeteroo said:


> Hi
> I need some help
> 
> 1. I want to buy a pair of earbud that is easy to drive. Will use it with Sansa clip




Very very cool. I'm still rocking my rockboxed 20 year old Sansa Clip. I treat it like a baby.

As for a recommendation, I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as these other guys, but I'll tell you what I do rock with my Clip are the stellars, Monk+, and the Ry4s(this is ridiculously good).

Happy hunting


----------



## waynes world

h8uthemost said:


> Very very cool. I'm still rocking my rockboxed 20 year old Sansa Clip. I treat it like a baby.



It is pretty ridiculous how good those Sansa Clip's were (especially rock boxed) - they were ahead of their time! I still have mine, but sadly it only turns on by plugging in the usb cable. Still sounds great though!


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I have a pair of buds coming in with an order today that have the Qigom 300 driver in them. Anybody have any experience with this driver? I got them on AliExpress (CKLewis Audio Store) and figured if the buds arent good, I'd harvest the driver because I thought I remembered heatding good things about the S300 which these appear to be a version or copy of according to the ad. I'm just curious, but I guess we'll see pretty soon.


They are decent drivers, but in truth my least favorite 300Ohm buds.  That’s not saying they’re bad.  I have them tuned up far beyond what I initially thought they were capable of.  They have a thinner, lighter cone than the Blue Glue version which gives them an earlier breakup than most other drivers I’ve used.  This also apparently makes them capable of deeper bass in this earbud driver design. It’s a give and take relationship.  @FranQL and I prefer the BG version while others prefer the WG.  The BG as I’ve tuned it is definitely more limited in the bass and I haven’t been able to fix that.  I do have a couple more tricks up my sleeve, but the quality of every sound it produces north of 150Hz is excellent and among the best there is.  Very cool for such a cheap driver.  The WG version has a more hazy sound but does produce more mid bass though it still lacks any deep bass.  I prefer excellence in one thing over mediocrity in all things.  I have other drivers for that and prefer the 150BG in every way.  It has a less resonant treble and deeper bass with slightly better separation and composure to the WG.  I don’t want to poopoo the driver.  I only have 1 commercial bud that I prefer over it and that’s the ff3.  I know you have a lot of high end ones so I suspect your mileage will vary.  Of course I prefer the the FF3 to the 300BG as well but that’s just because it does more things well.  I don’t like my headphones to be “specialist” headphones.  I see that as a kind way of saying “limited”.  LOL


----------



## FranQL (Nov 2, 2022)

A clear example of what @Ronion says about BG is that if you prioritize high mids 300 BG leads to great results like Blur beutiful wich. Although that is too much for me and the stage seems quite narrow. Playing with that driver you can get tight and fast, dry bass, and have the rest of the frequencies at an excellent level, with a slightly higher stage than average, but really similar to headphones. Of course, if you do tests A and B with the best ones, then you will notice the difference, but if you don't, they are very, very worthy and I like them better than the rest of the 300 Ohm that I tried (I´ve pending 300 LCP, its the only one that calls my attention, and you are to blame).

150 Ohm BG is very good, it does everything well, but... that one is not among my favorites, there is always a naughty treble peak adjusted to my preference, removing that peak ends up giving me a muddier result, like when you remove the brightness in a photo, matte.


----------



## FranQL

Delete


----------



## JAnonymous5150

FranQL said:


> (I´ve pending 300 LCP, its the only one that calls my attention, and you are to blame).



I'll take that reaponsibility. The 300 LCPs are great drivers no doubt!

I appreciate you and @Ronion breaking down your thoughts on these 300 white glue drivers. You guys are the best. Thanks!


----------



## o0genesis0o

Hi folks, is there any agreed upon naming schemes for these drivers? Would be easier to know what is what for newbies like myself.


----------



## Ronion (Nov 2, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I'll take that reaponsibility. The 300 LCPs are great drivers no doubt!
> 
> I appreciate you and @Ronion breaking down your thoughts on these 300 white glue drivers. You guys are the best. Thanks!


I'm chomping at the bit to build my next set of 300LCP.  I know what tweaks I want to make with them, but I just want to measure the remaining driver several more times to see if it returns to baseline.  It hasn't so far......


o0genesis0o said:


> Hi folks, is there any agreed upon naming schemes for these drivers? Would be easier to know what is what for newbies like myself.


Sort of... We tend to refer to them by the color of glue on them and abbreviate.  Take for instance the BG, pronounced BeeGee (not to be confused with the music group which bears no affiliation with @JAnonymous5150)



Though they may look alike, @JAnonymous5150 is not, and I repeat "is not" the one in the middle.  Now that we have that clear, let's continue. (right now @JAnonymous5150's people are wondering how I know he looks like that). 
BG refers to Blue Glue which may be one of 3 drivers: the 32BG, 150BG, or the 300BG.  32, 150, and 300 refer to their impedance.  WG=White Glue.  Some drivers we refer to with their cone material: LCP, Beryllium(abbreviated to Be or Bery), Bio (for biological film), DLC, CNT, PET (like Blue PET), and the Red Dot family with large solder tabs (and who knows what else) we may say Red Dot, Pink Dot, Blue Dot, etc...


----------



## nymz

View attachment IMG_20221029_141913.jpg​My review of the *TGXEAR Tantalus* is now live and you can find it here.

Hope you enjoy reading it as much as I enjoyed listen to it.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> I'm chomping at the bit to build my next set of 300LCP.  I know what tweaks I want to make with them, but I just want to measure the remaining driver several more times to see if it returns to baseline.  It hasn't so far......
> 
> Sort of... We tend to refer to them by the color of glue on them and abbreviate.  Take for instance the BG, pronounced BeeGee (not to be confused with the music group which bears no affiliation with @JAnonymous5150)
> 
> ...


LOL 🤣 I wish I had a mane of locks I could wear puffed up like that! I would go bankrupt paying for professional headshots just trying to find a photographer that could do it justice. 😜


----------



## FranQL

I always knew @JAnonymous5150  was the BeeGee of falsettos....


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> I'm chomping at the bit to build my next set of 300LCP.  I know what tweaks I want to make with them, but I just want to measure the remaining driver several more times to see if it returns to baseline.  It hasn't so far......
> 
> Sort of... We tend to refer to them by the color of glue on them and abbreviate.  Take for instance the BG, pronounced BeeGee (not to be confused with the music group which bears no affiliation with @JAnonymous5150)
> 
> ...



Thanks for the explanation, mate!

Btw, in my head, @JAnonymous5150 looks like young Bon Jovi when he recorded Living on a Prayer


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Thanks for the explanation, mate!
> 
> Btw, in my head, @JAnonymous5150 looks like young Bon Jovi when he recorded Living on a Prayer



Hold on and let me get this straight! Does everyone on here picture me as some kind of primped and blowdried 80s idol? That's AWESOME! And hilarious, BTW 🤣

As for @FranQL and his assertion regarding my falsetto, I can assure you that I don't have a falsetto at all. I am blessed with a good enough ear to know just how terrible my singing voice is so I never got around to developing it lol!

I was having a bit of a frustrating day, but these three posts just turned that all around. Wait until I tell my girl that you all think she's with Bon Jovi or something. She's gonna feel so cheated...😜


----------



## suicideup (Nov 2, 2022)

Eduardiofilo said:


> Have anyone tried monk v2s or the old ones? Are they as good as veclan fanboys say?


Hey there! I just got mine today. It sounds good for what it is worth to my ears. It is better than the Monk Plus SPC for me, given that they are similarly priced in my country. However, it sounds nearer and better to the old Monk V2 more than it is nearer to the ZEN, as what some people said. Nevertheless, it is good and very worthy for their current price


----------



## Chessnaudio

nymz said:


> ​My review of the *TGXEAR Tantalus* is now live and you can find it here.
> 
> Hope you enjoy reading it as much as I enjoyed listen to it.


What a comprehensive excellent review! Kudos to you.


----------



## lafeuill

My thanks to all who recommended the Yincrow X6 as quality budget buds

I needed to validate fit with MX500 type shell, and figured that the X6 would be adequate for a VR use

Well, fit is validated and the X6 is indeed perfect with the Quest2 for immersiveness without being cut out from real life environment


----------



## fogside

What earbuds better - fiio em5 or fiio ff3 ?


----------



## yaps66

fogside said:


> What earbuds better - fiio em5 or fiio ff3 ?


I have both. I prefer FF3.


----------



## fogside

What is better in ff3 ?


----------



## ShaneyMac

yaps66 said:


> I have both. I prefer FF3.


Can you please give us more details? Why you like FF3 more than EM5?


----------



## yaps66 (Nov 3, 2022)

fogside said:


> What is better in ff3 ?


Much more engaging. Fun tuning.  Love the bass.

The EM5 is probably technically better.  I find that the tuning is safe and excels across the board. Unfortunately it just does not engage me as much as the FF3.

I also love the shells of the FF3. They are beautiful and also physically more comfortable to me.


----------



## fogside

So...if i not a basshead and like classical and fusion jazz music em5 is more technically and high level buds ?


----------



## yaps66 (Nov 3, 2022)

fogside said:


> So...if i not a basshead and like classical and fusion jazz music em5 is more technically and high level buds ?


In that case I would recommend the TGXear Alpha. While the EM5 would excel for both classical and fusion jazz, the natural tonality of the Alpha gives it the edge.  For me, the Alpha is the current mids king!


----------



## lanister

Buchi said:


> I won't buy the LBBS. I had one and it died in less than 1 year. Even when it worked I enjoyed my other buds more than it.


Can you suggest me some buds better than Lbbs in it price range?


----------



## drewbadour

lanister said:


> Can you suggest me some buds better than Lbbs in it price range?


50$ is a desert for branded buds.
At that price point, you'll want to start looking into DIY makers. @RikudouGoku makes some of the best at that price point! I regard my RikuBuds very highly, and I like my Saber 1 more than the FF3 and Yinman 600 that are well loved here and cost much more.


----------



## Chessnaudio

lanister said:


> Can you suggest me some buds better than Lbbs in it price range?


I'll second that. Look to @RikudouGoku for buds in the $50 price range. Very happy with mine


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Nov 3, 2022)

fogside said:


> What earbuds better - fiio em5 or fiio ff3 ?



I actually sold my EM5s because the bass takes over especially in more complicated tracks and starts to lose definition and swamp the mids. The FF3s do a great job of staying agile, clean, and controlled in the low end and they also have this huge presentation with a raw visceral quality that the EM5s (or any other earbud for that matter) doesn't have. The FF3s bass also stays out of the mids allowing them to remain detailed and pretty linear. I will say that the treble on the EM5s had a little more air and was more forward as I remember it and if there's one criticism I sometimes have of the FF3s it's that they could use a little air and sparkle for some tracks.

Overall, the FF3s are better and Fiio's CEO basically said that the FF series was meant to take what they had learned to make an even better flathead earbud tandem this time around. I think they're off to a magnificent start with the FF3s and I can't wait to see what they do with the FF5s.

Edit: I totally agree with @yaps66 assessment about the EM5s being good at basically everything, but not nearly as engaging or exciting as the FF3s. The massive presentation on the FF3s is something you can't get with any other earbud that I know of. With the EM5s you're getting a good earbud, but it doesn't have any standout or exceptional qualities, IMO.


----------



## rkw

fogside said:


> So...if i not a basshead and like classical and fusion jazz music em5 is more technically and high level buds ?


I have not heard the FF3 but I did not like the EM5 for classical music (90% of my listening). The bass is excellent but the treble was very harsh for me, especially in string instruments. For classical I like the Yinman 600.


----------



## christianfps

Hey there @o0genesis0o really nice inputs about the JD7s and I'm wondering how it compares to the FF3s right now?


----------



## o0genesis0o

christianfps said:


> Hey there @o0genesis0o really nice inputs about the JD7s and I'm wondering how it compares to the FF3s right now?



Very different beasts. FF3 is warm with big bass and pulled back treble. JD7 is close to Blessing 2, or more specifically the OG Dunu SA6. None of the frequencies is too forward or too subdued, with a nice 6k dip to control sibilance. 

JD7 has large soundstage in IEM sense. FF3 sounds like semi-open back headphones.


----------



## thedjkhalid (Nov 5, 2022)

I am going to put a classifieds listing soon, but I have a pretty much new Smabat M2s Pro with original box and cable, and an extra pair of the stock 40 ohm bio drivers with it.  also a pretty much new Smabat M4 with black gold 150 ohm drivers.

edit: on classifieds now


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Nov 5, 2022)

Wrong thread! Oops


----------



## 4ceratops

Hi everyone! Please does anyone have experience with the earbuds found in the attached link? Specifically, I'm referring to the version with the TITANIUM which there is a lot of very positive feedback in the reviews on Ali. Thanks for any info.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004437892609.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.18751802vVOYbF


----------



## fooltoque

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Nice to know I helped make a few Polyphia fans with my recs! 🤘😎



Another new fan here, thanks 

By the way, I first listened to them with the FF3's, and loved it (New Levels New Devils). Then today I tried listening to them in my car. My car is about a year old and has the stock sound system in it. The dealer says the sound system is really good (lol). I listened to a few songs and couldn't stand it. It ended up sounding kinda like just annoying mush. I think you really need speakers/headphones capable of proper instrument separation to enjoy music like that. 

I think there are a lot of people who don't get the appeal of music like Polyphia. It makes me wonder if a lot of them would change their mind if they listened to it again with a proper set of headphones.


----------



## fooltoque (Nov 5, 2022)

fogside said:


> What earbuds better - fiio em5 or fiio ff3 ?


Another vote here for the FF3s. I also have both, and prefer FF3s for all the reasons everyone else has already said. It is just a fantastic bud. I personally find the EM5s fatiguing, although I was able to EQ some of that out of them.

Lately don't listen to my EM5s for music anymore, but I found use for them in my VR headset, as they really add to the realism in VR. If I didn't already own them, there is no way I'd spend that on VR only buds though 

One thing I wish I could swap from the EM5s to FF3s is the cable. EM5 cable looks and feels fantastic. I like a little bling in my cables, and the FF3's is kinda boring to me.


----------



## Ronion

4ceratops said:


> Hi everyone! Please does anyone have experience with the earbuds found in the attached link? Specifically, I'm referring to the version with the TITANIUM which there is a lot of very positive feedback in the reviews on Ali. Thanks for any info.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004437892609.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.18751802vVOYbF


I can only say that I have experience with the LCP variant’s driver and that it’s one of the best around.  


fooltoque said:


> Another vote here for the FF3s. I also have both, and prefer FF3s for all the reasons everyone else has already said. It is just a fantastic bud. I personally find the EM5s fatiguing, although I was able to EQ some of that out of them.
> 
> Lately don't listen to my EM5s for music anymore, but I found use for them in my VR headset, as they really add to the realism in VR. If I didn't already own them, there is no way I'd spend that on VR only buds though
> 
> One thing I wish I could swap from the EM5s to FF3s is the cable. EM5 cable looks and feels fantastic. I like a little bling in my cables, and the FF3's is kinda boring to me.


I think all of us are in that boat: the FF3’s cable.  It’s not horrible, but FiiO had been using beautiful cables on other earphones and the FF3 is worthy.  I can’t believe that the FF5 has been delayed so long, but I’m betting it comes with a beauty of a cable.  Hopefully the sound is SOTA as well.


----------



## thedjkhalid

Ronion said:


> I can only say that I have experience with the LCP variant’s driver and that it’s one of the best around.
> 
> I think all of us are in that boat: the FF3’s cable.  It’s not horrible, but FiiO had been using beautiful cables on other earphones and the FF3 is worthy.  I can’t believe that the FF5 has been delayed so long, but I’m betting it comes with a beauty of a cable.  Hopefully the sound is SOTA as well.


is there a sound difference between the hazy black shell and the hazy clear shell?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Does anyone here have any experience with the DQSM PD21? If so I'd love to hear some impressions.


----------



## Ronion

thedjkhalid said:


> is there a sound difference between the hazy black shell and the hazy clear shell?


I can’t say, but in general the clear shells measure to have more treble and less bass vs opaque ones.


----------



## thedjkhalid

Ronion said:


> I can’t say, but in general the clear shells measure to have more treble and less bass vs opaque ones.


Thanks for the info.


----------



## dsonance

Ronion said:


> I think all of us are in that boat: the FF3’s cable.  It’s not horrible, but FiiO had been using beautiful cables on other earphones and the FF3 is worthy.  I can’t believe that the FF5 has been delayed so long, but I’m betting it comes with a beauty of a cable.  Hopefully the sound is SOTA as well.


I just had an incident with my bird and the beautiful cable on the Alpha (see here), and kind of feel that if it was the FF3 cable instead, she would either not show any interest, or the cable would survive. So, I think the FF3 cable has at least that going for it...


----------



## dsonance

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Does anyone here have any experience with the DQSM PD21? If so I'd love to hear some impressions.


I don't, but there's some unrelated info on another bud ending on "21"  in your PM box, @JAnonymous515


----------



## Ronion

dsonance said:


> I just had an incident with my bird and the beautiful cable on the Alpha (see here), and kind of feel that if it was the FF3 cable instead, she would either not show any interest, or the cable would survive. So, I think the FF3 cable has at least that going for it...


Sorry to hear brother!  That sucks, but at least the bird has good taste.  You’ve raised it well.


----------



## o0genesis0o

dsonance said:


> I just had an incident with my bird and the beautiful cable on the Alpha (see here), and kind of feel that if it was the FF3 cable instead, she would either not show any interest, or the cable would survive. So, I think the FF3 cable has at least that going for it...



I don’t know mate, FF3’s cable looks even more like a worm, which might be more attractive in bird culture   Lucky that tgx78 fixes your cable though.

Speaking of bird, I have seen a picture of the “birds” (IEMs) meeting a puppy recently. NSFW material right there.


Do you guys think that FF5 would be bell-shaped? All of Fiio’s cables have prebuilt ear-hooks, so unless they release a new cable, I don’t see cable-down with MMCX feasible.

I used to think that that the stock cables of some Fiio’s IEM are special. And then I realised they are just the optional cable that Fiio sell separately.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> bird culture



Now that made me literally lol! 😂 I've never heard animal behavior described as part of a kingdom or species specific culture before.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Now that made me literally lol! 😂 I've never heard animal behavior described as part of a kingdom or species specific culture before.


----------



## chinmie

I've been stuck at home for this couple of days because of the virus, so i spend my time testing between my "old trusty" BlueDAC and my new G5, using my old Puresounds 500. if people ask why do we buy high impedanced earphones, it's "so that we can crank the amp up"   

@JAnonymous5150  I've been listening to Panzerballet for a bit, now that my fever and heart rate has gone down to normal, i finally can enjoy listening to it. A few days ago it's quite intense to listen to the cacophony and dissonant goodness while having a fever

on a side note, i haven't listened to my Liebesleid for quite a while, and i don't know if it's broken or not, but the bass seems to be reduced. i know it's already a bright earbud to begin with, but i used to be able to still hear the bass just fine. now it seems the treble is more present and the bass is pushed back. 
i need to find another unit to compare if mine is broken, or it's just my ears that shift their preference


----------



## o0genesis0o

chinmie said:


> I've been stuck at home for this couple of days because of the virus, so i spend my time testing between my "old trusty" BlueDAC and my new G5, using my old Puresounds 500. if people ask why do we buy high impedanced earphones, it's "so that we can crank the amp up"
> 
> @JAnonymous5150  I've been listening to Panzerballet for a bit, now that my fever and heart rate has gone down to normal, i finally can enjoy listening to it. A few days ago it's quite intense to listen to the cacophony and dissonant goodness while having a fever
> 
> ...


Heyo, I have just grabbed a G5 too!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

chinmie said:


> I've been stuck at home for this couple of days because of the virus, so i spend my time testing between my "old trusty" BlueDAC and my new G5, using my old Puresounds 500. if people ask why do we buy high impedanced earphones, it's "so that we can crank the amp up"
> 
> @JAnonymous5150  I've been listening to Panzerballet for a bit, now that my fever and heart rate has gone down to normal, i finally can enjoy listening to it. A few days ago it's quite intense to listen to the cacophony and dissonant goodness while having a fever
> 
> ...



I'm sorry to hear about your sickness, but I'm glad you're starting to feel better. I hate it when I get sick so that I can't even enjoy music because my head is so stuffed up or painful. I'm also happy that you're enjoying Panzerballett. I only discovered them fairly recently, but I really like their crazy music. It keeps you on your toes because you never know where they're gonna take it next and every time I listen to their albums I hear/notice something new that I never noticed before.

I hope you keep getting better and that your Liebesleids aren't broken. Make sure you keep getting plenty of rest and stay hydrated. My girl and my mom always tell me that when I'm sick so it must be important. 😉


----------



## chinmie

o0genesis0o said:


> Heyo, I have just grabbed a G5 too!



Niiicee!!! how do you liking it? i really didn't have any complaints about my BlueDac initially, i only curious about the G5 because it seems like a logical update to my aging BlueDac (LDAC, USB C charging, 4.4mm jack, sturdier build). But after comparing them both, the clean sound of the G5 even makes my bluedac sounded warmish. i think i prefer the G5 more


JAnonymous5150 said:


> I'm sorry to hear about your sickness, but I'm glad you're starting to feel better. I hate it when I get sick so that I can't even enjoy music because my head is so stuffed up or painful. I'm also happy that you're enjoying Panzerballett. I only discovered them fairly recently, but I really like their crazy music. It keeps you on your toes because you never know where they're gonna take it next and every time I listen to their albums I hear/notice something new that I never noticed before.
> 
> I hope you keep getting better and that your Liebesleids aren't broken. Make sure you keep getting plenty of rest and stay hydrated. My girl and my mom always tell me that when I'm sick so it must be important. 😉


Yup, it's the kind of music that needs me to concentrate and listen, so much going on and really exciting. 
Thanks man! I've been evading this virus for these years, only to finally catching this new "strain" which seems to more likely infect people who never got them yet. So far only my wife who didn't got them to this day, and she works in the medical field  (bless her health  )


----------



## o0genesis0o

chinmie said:


> Niiicee!!! how do you liking it? i really didn't have any complaints about my BlueDac initially, i only curious about the G5 because it seems like a logical update to my aging BlueDac (LDAC, USB C charging, 4.4mm jack, sturdier build). But after comparing them both, the clean sound of the G5 even makes my bluedac sounded warmish. i think i prefer the G5 more



I’m loving the G5 so far. To be honest, I was (and somewhat still) not convinced that sources can make that much of a difference. However, G5 drives my Final E5000 (notoriously hard to drive properly) better than anything I have heard in my collection, including the two Hidizs dongles that I like a lot. The soundstage is also a bit wider (but not deeper) with most of the gears that I brought for A/B tests. I also know that these G5 measures extremely well (not that I fully understand  ). So it was a logical choice. Now I am ready for TGXears Serratus.



chinmie said:


> Yup, it's the kind of music that needs me to concentrate and listen, so much going on and really exciting.
> Thanks man! I've been evading this virus for these years, only to finally catching this new "strain" which seems to more likely infect people who never got them yet. So far only my wife who didn't got them to this day, and she works in the medical field  (bless her health  )



Jeez, hope that you would get well soon. I’ve also managed to evade the virus so far. Though, my colleagues suspect that I have already got it but I had no idea because I am always cranky and tired, so virus makes no difference


----------



## Ronion

chinmie said:


> I've been stuck at home for this couple of days because of the virus, so i spend my time testing between my "old trusty" BlueDAC and my new G5, using my old Puresounds 500. if people ask why do we buy high impedanced earphones, it's "so that we can crank the amp up"
> 
> @JAnonymous5150  I've been listening to Panzerballet for a bit, now that my fever and heart rate has gone down to normal, i finally can enjoy listening to it. A few days ago it's quite intense to listen to the cacophony and dissonant goodness while having a fever
> 
> ...


Glad to hear you’re feeling better man.  If it’s any consolation, I just got the newer version of the vaccine and was put out for 2 days with a fever of 38.5C….  Night sweats and rigors, the whole nine yards.  Caught me totally off guard.

I was under the impression that the Topping was going to be a bit more portable.  That looks like it will require a belt clip.  Is it smaller than it looks in the photo?


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> I was under the impression that the Topping was going to be a bit more portable.  That looks like it will require a belt clip.  Is it smaller than it looks in the photo?



It’s slightly smaller than an iPhone XR. If you can wear a phone on your belt, you can wear this thing on your belt. It’s quite heavy comparing to any phone though. At least as heavy as the metal bricks from A&K (seriously, you can break someone’s head with some of those A&K players)


----------



## chinmie

Ronion said:


> Glad to hear you’re feeling better man.  If it’s any consolation, I just got the newer version of the vaccine and was put out for 2 days with a fever of 38.5C….  Night sweats and rigors, the whole nine yards.  Caught me totally off guard.
> 
> I was under the impression that the Topping was going to be a bit more portable.  That looks like it will require a belt clip.  Is it smaller than it looks in the photo?



wow... i hope you're okay now. 

I've just measured the G5, it's 14 x 7 x 1.5 cm, and 270 gram in weight..pretty hefty compared to my phone (Galaxy Note 10)


----------



## o0genesis0o

Hi folks, my Smabat M4 is finally done, after lots of measurements, testing, and a full replacement set from the manufacturers. You can find the review on head-fi or my blog. 








> Smabat has a great idea with M4. However, this great idea needs more refinement. The tuning could be less aggressive. The bass could extend further. However, they need to refine the manufacturing process to eliminate the fitting problem between the drivers and the main body units. I also wish for more variety amongst the available drivers rather than slight variations of Smabat house sound.
> 
> In the current state of M4, I can only recommend these earphones to adventurous listeners who like forward vocals and want to support the modular earphones concept. For DIY-inclined folks, I recommend picking up a soldering iron, some drill bits, and some standard MX500 drivers.


----------



## Ronion

chinmie said:


> wow... i hope you're okay now.
> 
> I've just measured the G5, it's 14 x 7 x 1.5 cm, and 270 gram in weight..pretty hefty compared to my phone (Galaxy Note 10)


all good now.  Thank you 🙏 

would you guys consider the G5 as good as a desktop DAC/amp?  That seems to be the general consensus: It’s powerful enough to drive anything and audibly transparent, But I trust you guys a whole lot more than web chatter and even measurements.


----------



## ttorbic

KokushiTsumo said:


> I have one on the way, it'd be awesome if you could also comment on the mic quality


I can confirm that the mic works when plugged into the 3.5 mm plug on the Megatron and through USB C - 3.5 mm adapter on Google Pixel 61. Quality seems to be on par with Google Pixel built-in mic, although I didn't do any extensive testing. If folks have specific requests on what I should be testing for, I can do that. @Ronion tagging you as well


----------



## chinmie

Ronion said:


> all good now.  Thank you 🙏
> 
> would you guys consider the G5 as good as a desktop DAC/amp?  That seems to be the general consensus: It’s powerful enough to drive anything and audibly transparent, But I trust you guys a whole lot more than web chatter and even measurements.



unfortunately i am not well versed in the topic of desktop amps, as i mostly listen to music with streaming service like Spotify /YT Music on portable dacs. 
the G5 have more volume compared to my BlueDAC.. it has 3 gain stage while the BlueDAC has only 2. 
the G5 (heck, even the BlueDAC) is powerful enough to drive all of my gears, the ATH R70X being the hardest to drive among them.

the difference of sound "cleanness"  is similar to when i compared the BlueDAC to my friend's Schitt Jotunheim 2, but i have to compare the G5 to the Jotunheim directly to be sure. 

by pure guessing/speculation at this point though, I'd say bigger sized desktop DAC/amp like the Jotunheim would have bigger power than the G5


----------



## Ronion (Nov 6, 2022)

chinmie said:


> unfortunately i am not well versed in the topic of desktop amps, as i mostly listen to music with streaming service like Spotify /YT Music on portable dacs.
> the G5 have more volume compared to my BlueDAC.. it has 3 gain stage while the BlueDAC has only 2.
> the G5 (heck, even the BlueDAC) is powerful enough to drive all of my gears, the ATH R70X being the hardest to drive among them.
> 
> ...


Today I’m listening to 300Ohm buds with a Hidizs S8 and it blows me away.  Hard to believe what can fit in your pocket these days.  My top five headphones fit in my pocket.  Still I have a craving for more juice.

Last night I tuned to HE150 which I bought cheap from Penon.  These drivers are probably my favorite (approx)150Ohm driver.  I know I paid under $20 for them shipped.  The bass is deep and tight, midrange and treble are SMOOTH as warm butter but extended, and the sense of space is quite large.  I haven’t even hooked them up to a more powerful source yet.  I would highly recommend this bud in the under $20 category.  It’s one I won’t give away even though I have better buds.  This one is just special to me.  It reminds me of how the better Tingo buds sound but with a more authoritative low end and still very cheap and available as far as I know.  https://penonaudio.com/he-150ohm.html

I actually put it in my Tingo Shells to tune it up a little.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> all good now.  Thank you 🙏
> 
> would you guys consider the G5 as good as a desktop DAC/amp?  That seems to be the general consensus: It’s powerful enough to drive anything and audibly transparent, But I trust you guys a whole lot more than web chatter and even measurements.



I have no question about the sonic output of G5 for desktop uses. But I’m keeping my Hidizs S9 Pro for desktop because I don’t want to risk the battery of G5 keeping it charged all the time.

Sonic wise, it’s crisp and clear, with the “effect” of widening the soundstage that only appears with powerful amp (strong dongle, desktop stack, TOTL DAP). What I like the most comparing to strong dongles like S9 Pro is how quiet G5 can get. So I can use super sensitive IEMs with medium gain, whilst S9 would make them very loud even at the lowest volume (Android) and completely unusable on desktop.


----------



## Ronion (Nov 7, 2022)

Would you believe me if I said these sound nothing alike?

Here’s 3 150 Ohm drivers:



Nothing alike other than general tonal balance.  The one in Red is the HE150.  You can see why people keep talking about its bass.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> Would you believe me if I said these sound nothing alike?
> 
> Here’s 3 150 Ohm drivers:
> 
> Nothing alike other than general tonal balance.  The one in Red is the HE150.  You can see why people keep talking about its bass.



Can it be the case that the graph are too smoothened to show the difference, or the rig does not measure finely / accurately enough? I have no doubt that same FR can sound very different, but I wonder where that difference comes from.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Can it be the case that the graph are too smoothened to show the difference, or the rig does not measure finely / accurately enough? I have no doubt that same FR can sound very different, but I wonder where that difference comes from.



At least some differences come in the presentations provided by different driver tyoes and materials. Meaning different note weights and edges, resolution, soundstage, layering, and imaging capabilities, etc.

Edit: I should add that this is my opinion.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> At least some differences come in the presentations provided by different driver tyoes and materials. Meaning different note weights and edges, resolution, soundstage, layering, and imaging capabilities, etc.
> 
> Edit: I should add that this is my opinion.


I mean all of the physical differences eventually reflect on certain measurements of the whole transducer system, right. Where they are is the question   

Say, high resolution might associate with low distortion. Fiio FD5 has excellent distortion profile, outperforming U12t. FD5 is also closely aligned with Harman target, which in theory gives it minimal masking thus excellent resolution. That’s why measurebators at ASR swore that FD5 is the pinnacle and U12t is overpriced audiofool product. Yet I doubt anyone with any honesty can say FD5 is more resolving than U12t in real world listening. So, which measurement truely reflects that difference? I don’t know


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Nov 7, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> I mean all of the physical differences eventually reflect on certain measurements of the whole transducer system, right. Where they are is the question
> 
> Say, high resolution might associate with low distortion. Fiio FD5 has excellent distortion profile, outperforming U12t. FD5 is also closely aligned with Harman target, which in theory gives it minimal masking thus excellent resolution. That’s why measurebators at ASR swore that FD5 is the pinnacle and U12t is overpriced audiofool product. Yet I doubt anyone with any honesty can say FD5 is more resolving than U12t in real world listening. So, which measurement truely reflects that difference? I don’t know



I was trying to say that there are inherent differences in driver types and materials that lead to differences that don't show up in any measurments that I am aware of.

Edit: Again, I'll add that this is just my opinion based on my experiences.


----------



## chinmie

Ronion said:


> Would you believe me if I said these sound nothing alike?
> 
> Here’s 3 150 Ohm drivers:
> 
> Nothing alike other than general tonal balance.  The one in Red is the HE150.  You can see why people keep talking about its bass.



yes, 2D FR would not show the ADSR of each frequency, for instance two earphones might play the same note at the same frequency, but one of them would have slightly longer decay than the other one, which makes the listeners perceive it to be bassier/boomier (because it holds the bass slightly longer) 

another factor is for example: playing the same guitar amp with the same speaker, first with the amp 2 meters in front of us at head height, second with the amp 2 meters in front of us but elevated 1 meter higher than the first one. 
we can play multiple scenarios with the height, distance, and angle (slightly left/right, etc). all would produce slightly different sound. 

also playing the same guitar amp, same speaker type, but one with single speaker, and second with the same speaker but in an array (for instance 4 speaker cabinet). would yield different sounds. 

Another interesting find: lately in my local audio community, there's IEM mod by changing the internal wiring with better cables and solder.. usually using popular cheaper IEMs like the Salnotes Zero, Chu, CRA, that kind of stuff.. I've heard this mod years ago, but seems to become popular again now. 

my friends and i listened to the modded ones to the stock IEMs, and the general consensus is that the modded ones would sound "cleaner", while the stock ones is like listening to the same music but with added really low pink noise in the background. 
the tuning between them are basically the same, and if we measure them (as my friend did) the FR would be similar. 
there's also the case of this mods that the sound signature differ from the stock ones, i don't know if it's purely because of the wiring mod, or the modder knocked something up inside that changes the sound.


----------



## o0genesis0o

chinmie said:


> yes, 2D FR would not show the ADSR of each frequency, for instance two earphones might play the same note at the same frequency, but one of them would have slightly longer decay than the other one, which makes the listeners perceive it to be bassier/boomier (because it holds the bass slightly longer)
> 
> another factor is for example: playing the same guitar amp with the same speaker, first with the amp 2 meters in front of us at head height, second with the amp 2 meters in front of us but elevated 1 meter higher than the first one.
> we can play multiple scenarios with the height, distance, and angle (slightly left/right, etc). all would produce slightly different sound.
> ...


So cool to hear about this effect. That reminds me of Sony’s ads of their new TOTL DAP with golden solder joints or something to increase soundstage and dynamic


----------



## qua2k (Nov 7, 2022)

Offloading a couple more buds that need more use. Posting here first 

*Both sold*


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Can it be the case that the graph are too smoothened to show the difference, or the rig does not measure finely / accurately enough? I have no doubt that same FR can sound very different, but I wonder where that difference comes from.


These graphs don’t change much d/t smoothing.  It really only affects above 4-5kHz.  The rig definitely measures accurately enough for frequency response up to 10kHz…. 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> At least some differences come in the presentations provided by different driver tyoes and materials. Meaning different note weights and edges, resolution, soundstage, layering, and imaging capabilities, etc.
> 
> Edit: I should add that this is my opinion.


I’m sure it has a lot do with it as well as the magnetic strength particularly at higher excursions.


o0genesis0o said:


> I mean all of the physical differences eventually reflect on certain measurements of the whole transducer system, right. Where they are is the question
> 
> Say, high resolution might associate with low distortion. Fiio FD5 has excellent distortion profile, outperforming U12t. FD5 is also closely aligned with Harman target, which in theory gives it minimal masking thus excellent resolution. That’s why measurebators at ASR swore that FD5 is the pinnacle and U12t is overpriced audiofool product. Yet I doubt anyone with any honesty can say FD5 is more resolving than U12t in real world listening. So, which measurement truely reflects that difference? I don’t know


No one knows, but I’m sure that I would need to measure buds in a far more in depth manner which would require a very quiet environment for buds.  I just hope to be able to work on it before long.  We do know that human hearing has better frequency resolution at low frequencies and better temporal resolution at high frequencies.  So things like bass ‘speed’ are most likely a phenomenon of midrange or even treble characteristics.






The first graph is about decay speed perception.  The second is the number of cycles at particular frequencies that are required to detect the sound.   At 500 Hz it takes closer to 8 cycles or 16 ms to hear it, while at 5,000 Hz, it takes approx 80 cycles to hear a definite, distinct pitch or 1.6 ms.  At 50Hz you’re looking at a whopping 50-60ms to detect it.  That’s over 30x the time at 5,000Hz.  Speed pretty much has to come from higher in the spectrum.


----------



## Ronion (Nov 7, 2022)

chinmie said:


> yes, 2D FR would not show the ADSR of each frequency, for instance two earphones might play the same note at the same frequency, but one of them would have slightly longer decay than the other one, which makes the listeners perceive it to be bassier/boomier (because it holds the bass slightly longer)
> 
> another factor is for example: playing the same guitar amp with the same speaker, first with the amp 2 meters in front of us at head height, second with the amp 2 meters in front of us but elevated 1 meter higher than the first one.
> we can play multiple scenarios with the height, distance, and angle (slightly left/right, etc). all would produce slightly different sound.
> ...


I’m sure most of it is to be found in the ADSR domain.

I’m not sure where you are going with the second paragraph because these are all done in the same shell and in the same ear in the same location.

I’m also 100% sure that internal cables matter in the acoustic sense.  They can affect the acoust impedance within the shells.  I wouldn’t touch the subject of cable “sound” with a ten foot pole.  😂 Families have been divided with arguments on the subject.  Solder too!  Even though I solder with WBT Solder from time to time LOL.  I’m not going to say why.  All these only have 3 different cables and I’m sure they are not a major factor.  I pick them based on their diameter for acoustics reasons.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> These graphs don’t change much d/t smoothing.  It really only affects above 4-5kHz.  The rig definitely measures accurately enough for frequency response up to 10kHz….
> 
> I’m sure it has a lot do with it as well as the magnetic strength particularly at higher excursions.
> 
> ...



You should do a PhD on this topic   Maybe a bit hard to get someone to fund this kind of work, but at the right lab, you might have access to all the necessary instruments. Here are you inventing the rig and using the rig to research at the same time, without a quiet chamber to work with. Hats off to you, sir.

That reminds me, have you considered making a chest with a lot of dampen foams to do the measurements inside? You might be able to get more useful info out of distortion and stuffs there. I've seen Dunu having a couple of those in their factory for QC. A user named Earfonia on ASR also built something similar for measuring IEMs.


----------



## Ronion

Thank you 🙏 brother.  If you only knew how close I just was to getting such access.  It’s painful that the guy has decided to stop returning my calls/texts after he got a lot of information from me.  I hate to even think about it.  To be so close again and to just have someone let me down.  He’s got his own battles in life though and I’m hoping it’s just life getting in the way and not something nefarious.

I did have such a device made for recording electric guitar amps.  I broke it apart over a decade ago, but I can build it back better now and more specific to this purpose.  It’s all just a matter of finding the time.  Part of why the situation in my last paragraph would have been so nice.  I was going to have access to a legit, TOTL lab with all this stuff at my fingertips.


----------



## chinmie

Ronion said:


> I’m sure most of it is to be found in the ADSR domain.
> 
> I’m not sure where you are going with the second paragraph because these are all done in the same shell and in the same ear in the same location.
> 
> I’m also 100% sure that internal cables matter in the acoustic sense.  They can affect the acoust impedance within the shells.  I wouldn’t touch the subject of cable “sound” with a ten foot pole.  😂 Families have been divided with arguments on the subject.  Solder too!  Even though I solder with WBT Solder from time to time LOL.  I’m not going to say why.  All these only have 3 different cables and I’m sure they are not a major factor.  I pick them based on their diameter for acoustics reasons.



forgive me, i was thinking about the multi driver IEMs and different shells/ nozzle length when I wrote that, not on your test specifically.. so ignore that ramblings 

On that internal wiring mod, there is audible difference between modded and unmodded, but I really don't have any opinion on what's really causing it because i have no certifiable knowledge about it. 
when my friends introduced me to something like this, i usually stay silent and think to myself "really?"... 
and i have met fellow audio hobbyist who follows those more "esoteric things" like audiophile stickers, expensive cables and connectors, etc. 
now your explanation are eye opening to me, because it does sound logical. thicker/thinner cables would fill the space inside the earphones differently, and would change the acoustics.


----------



## brad86

Really disappointed in the NiceHCK B40. I love the RY4S Plus, and Fengru DIY Tingo TC200 Pro, but I really struggle to keep the MX500 style in my ears. I'm constantly having to fiddle with them to try and get a perfect fit.

B40 is the absolute perfect shape, and I was so happy to finally have a set that just fit, and didn't need any messing with.
Only problem, they sound terrible. Not just flat, but lacking everything, really. After reading the praise they get here, I was disappointed when I heard them myself. At first, I thought I might have a bad set, but I purchased another from a different Ali seller, and they were the same.

Is there anything with this exact PK fit, around the same sub $15 price, that don't compromise on sound so much ?
If I can get the PK fit, but with the RY4S Plus sound profile, I'll be so happy.


----------



## BrunoC

From my experience, that B40 shape won't ever produce good clear extended treble. Seems that it muffles and warms the sound too much.

It tried several, like the SR2, DIY PK2 and the B40 is one of the best actually.

Maybe the expensive models solve this issue, but why bother when you have loads os cheap MX500 earbuds which produce good extensions on both ends?


----------



## brad86

Absolutely agree on the MX500 style options. I've been pretty blown away by many different pairs. Unfortunately, the size just doesn't fit my ears well. The constant adjustments I'm having to make to get a good fit gets old, very fast.

I guess the larger 15+mm driver of the MX500 style really does make all the difference.


----------



## brad86 (Nov 8, 2022)

thedjkhalid said:


> Just received my TRN EMAs, ok buds (only like ~$9).  Very light, doesn't feel like I am wearing them.
> 
> Bass is anemic even for a bud I feel (using Hiegi foams).  On busy tracks, it feels like a train wreck.  And the "vent" on the bud feels like a fake vent, as only 7 very small dots are even "open".  Covering up the "vent" didn't really make a difference in sound to me.  Wondering if making an actual hole would help with some bass.
> 
> ...


I have the DIY Tingo TC200 Pro earbuds, and I really like them, but like you said, they do lack in the low end.

Very interested in this hole mod, and would like to try the same. If you don't mind sharing how you did.


----------



## Ronion (Nov 8, 2022)

brad86 said:


> Absolutely agree on the MX500 style options. I've been pretty blown away by many different pairs. Unfortunately, the size just doesn't fit my ears well. The constant adjustments I'm having to make to get a good fit gets old, very fast.
> 
> I guess the larger 15+mm driver of the MX500 style really does make all the difference.


I’ve lamented the fact that the MX500 has taken over the earbud world. The PK shell is definitely an improvement to my ears and I’ve built some fantastic PK buds.  Unfortunately, as far as I know all tHe great PK buds will cost you.  Some of the metal shells will offer better comfort.  Perhaps going to that $30 mark and getting the HE150 pro would be the better move.  The non-pro version has probably the best driver in the 150 ohm category.  I don’t know that anyone here has heard this specific version however, but I bet it’s the same driver.  The B40 is also just a look alike shell FWIW.  Its fit is actually worse than a genuine PK.  Oh, and PK shells can most definitely produce great treble.  Treble is really a driver and foam cover thing.  If you’re not getting enough treble, change your foams.  Try something from VE.  They make the best foams for treble That I’ve tried.


----------



## drewbadour

brad86 said:


> Really disappointed in the NiceHCK B40. I love the RY4S Plus, and Fengru DIY Tingo TC200 Pro, but I really struggle to keep the MX500 style in my ears. I'm constantly having to fiddle with them to try and get a perfect fit.
> 
> B40 is the absolute perfect shape, and I was so happy to finally have a set that just fit, and didn't need any messing with.
> Only problem, they sound terrible. Not just flat, but lacking everything, really. After reading the praise they get here, I was disappointed when I heard them myself. At first, I thought I might have a bad set, but I purchased another from a different Ali seller, and they were the same.
> ...


DQSM panda pk2s

Love mine.


----------



## theresanarc

I haven't bought any buds in a while and I guess the sale is a good time to. Looking for these two:

Anything with a similar fit to Qian39s but different sound?

Anything with a decent quality mic for office work? I'm currently using I think B40's with a mic.


----------



## Ronion (Nov 8, 2022)

theresanarc said:


> I haven't bought any buds in a while and I guess the sale is a good time to. Looking for these two:
> 
> Anything with a similar fit to Qian39s but different sound?
> 
> Anything with a decent quality mic for office work? I'm currently using I think B40's with a mic.


I would contact Venture Electronics about this: https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=45. 
they make a $5 microphone that might be compatible with a breakout cable if they won’t make a microphone version of that bud.
Breakout Cable
VE mic


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Nov 8, 2022)

brad86 said:


> Really disappointed in the NiceHCK B40. I love the RY4S Plus, and Fengru DIY Tingo TC200 Pro, but I really struggle to keep the MX500 style in my ears. I'm constantly having to fiddle with them to try and get a perfect fit.
> 
> B40 is the absolute perfect shape, and I was so happy to finally have a set that just fit, and didn't need any messing with.
> Only problem, they sound terrible. Not just flat, but lacking everything, really. After reading the praise they get here, I was disappointed when I heard them myself. At first, I thought I might have a bad set, but I purchased another from a different Ali seller, and they were the same.
> ...



For $25 you can get the DQSM Pandas that I have heard good things about. They have a PK shell and are supposed to be quite good for the money.

Edit: I should have kept reading to the part where @drewbadour rec'd the Pandas. Either way, they might be what you're looking for.


----------



## brad86

Thanks for the recommendations, gents. The Pandas would normally be a few quid out of my budget, but not by a lot. 
I will take punt on them


----------



## BrunoC (Nov 9, 2022)

I have the DQSM Panda and the B40.
The B40 is much better. Much better definition, separation and clarity. 

For a smaller shell I recommend the Ksearphone LBB. Not the LBBS which is more expensive and worse IMO. The LBB has excelent sound and very conmfortable. A bit more pricey though.

I'm using a good DAC - ifi Zen Air DAC. A good DAC is essencial for earbuds IMO, as it really gives them the bass and fullsound quality they deseve. A good dongle is usually enough.


----------



## Esclink

Which earbuds have the best soundsprofile?
Im looking for buds to use on a regular AUX.


----------



## Ronion

Esclink said:


> Which earbuds have the best soundsprofile?
> Im looking for buds to use on a regular AUX.


I’d vote for the FiiO ff3 of the over-the-counter buds.  You can read about it from the link in my signature.


----------



## Ronion (Nov 9, 2022)

Well, my Megatron arrived today, but I've only tried the single end output.  I took some FR graphs using one stationary bud, the 300 Ohm LCP planted in my rig and came up with some interesting results:







The B4X has increased lower treble and decreased air.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> Well, my Megatron arrived today, but I've only tried the single end output.  I took some FR graphs using one stationary bud, the 300 Ohm LCP planted in my rig and came up with some interesting results:


How interesting, first empirical evidence of difference between amps.

How is your impression about the noise performance and staging?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> Well, my Megatron arrived today, but I've only tried the single end output.  I took some FR graphs using one stationary bud, the 300 Ohm LCP planted in my rig and came up with some interesting results:
> 
> 
> The B4X has increased lower treble and decreased air.



I had never measured mine, but it has a pretty easily heard mellow character to it that would be easily explained by having some treble roll off. Wild Lee has basically said that this warm/analog/mellow and non-fatiguing character was an intentional tuning choice and I find that it pairs very well with certain buds. Thus far, I have been nothing but happy with mine.


----------



## thegamerulez

Folks, I am looking to buy spare foam for my earbuds. I currently use the FiiO donut ones on my FF3 & Vido (the 2 earbuds I currently have in circulation). 
I personally found that the donut ones provide better clarity than the fully covered ones (sounded muddied). 
I have ordered the HieGi brand ones but happy to take further recommendations.

Cheers


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> How interesting, first empirical evidence of difference between amps.
> 
> How is your impression about the noise performance and staging?


Oh, I wouldn't say first..... There have been tons of this evidence for decades.  First for me: Yes.  This is really just a small part of the actual differences and this is just with one bud.  It's tempting to try this with several buds/amps.  I wonder if the spread would remain very similar or if the different reactances wouldn't rear their heads a bit more prominently.  

Check out the differences in some commercial buds however:




That's not including with really wild SMABAT tunings but they still dwarf the differences in dramatically different amp designs.  My tunings spread is more similar to amp differences:




I haven't heard any noise, but I've only listened with 300+ ohm buds.  Staging is more intimate than most, if not all, of my other amps.  I definitely want to hear this balanced and I'm going to build some buds for the purpose.  I wonder if it doesn't open up a bit.


JAnonymous5150 said:


> I had never measured mine, but it has a pretty easily heard mellow character to it that would be easily explained by having some treble roll off. Wild Lee has basically said that this warm/analog/mellow and non-fatiguing character was an intentional tuning choice and I find that it pairs very well with certain buds. Thus far, I have been nothing but happy with mine.


I definitely enjoy the sound.  It's laid back and simultaneously muscular.    It's a different sort of muscular when compared to my FiiO e12mb, God rest its soul.  The FiiO was a bright and a touch aggressive and loose while the Megatron is laid back with contemplative resolve like an OG.  Unfortunately my iPhone/Pad won't power it at all.



thegamerulez said:


> Folks, I am looking to buy spare foam for my earbuds. I currently use the FiiO donut ones on my FF3 & Vido (the 2 earbuds I currently have in circulation).
> I personally found that the donut ones provide better clarity than the fully covered ones (sounded muddied).
> I have ordered the HieGi brand ones but happy to take further recommendations.
> 
> Cheers


Expect the HieGi to sound more muted than the FiiO Crisp.  For a wide range of more treble exposing foams get VE's Ex-Packs.


----------



## thegamerulez

Ronion said:


> Expect the HieGi to sound more muted than the FiiO Crisp.  For a wide range of more treble exposing foams get VE's Ex-Packs.


Thanks. Just to be clear, you are recommending getting the donut shaped (orange one) in VE's ex-pack? or any in that Ex-Pack range?

I also noticed that your signature shows a way to order FF3 foams itself. I have reached out to FiiO to see if I can order additional crisp foams.


----------



## Ronion

Any of the VE foams allows more treble to come through than most other foams.  The really thin ones reduce bass weight in bass lite buds however.  It's all a balancing act.


----------



## drewbadour

BrunoC said:


> I have the DQSM Panda and the B40.
> The B40 is much better. Much better definition, separation and clarity.
> 
> For a smaller shell I recommend the Ksearphone LBB. Not the LBBS which is more expensive and worse IMO. The LBB has excelent sound and very conmfortable. A bit more pricey though.
> ...


Is your panda the old one that was warm or the more recent one which is bright and clear?

Apparently it's changed quite a bit. 🤔


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Nov 10, 2022)

thegamerulez said:


> Thanks. Just to be clear, you are recommending getting the donut shaped (orange one) in VE's ex-pack? or any in that Ex-Pack range?
> 
> I also noticed that your signature shows a way to order FF3 foams itself. I have reached out to FiiO to see if I can order additional crisp foams.



The HieGi foams are indeed thicker and, thus, dampen a bit more than the Fiio Crisp donuts. That said, they're great to have around and I enjoy them and use them on a couple of my pairs. The VE donuts are thinner and I also have donuts from "O-ffice E-lectronics Store" on AliExpress that are thin, but stretchy so they don't tear easily and retain their shape well so they don't get stretched out and have to be replaced like some do. I have found them to be quite similar to the Fiio crisps, but they're very cheap and I like them a lot.

Of course, if you're committed to using the Fiio Crisp foams you can just order more of them from Fiio through their AliExpress store. I believe @Ronion still has a link in his sig to my instructions on where and how to purchase them. They're a bit expensive though so it just depends on how important they are to you.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Esclink said:


> Which earbuds have the best soundsprofile?
> Im looking for buds to use on a regular AUX.



That really depends on you and what sound profile you prefer as well as what you're planning using them for. Also, how much you're willing to spend could be a factor as well. If you can give me/us a budget, maybe some sound signature or music preferences, and whether you'll be using them for music, movies, games, etc then I/we can probably give you a better answer rather than a huge list of buds.


----------



## 4ceratops (Nov 10, 2022)

I'll start by saying that I prefer donuts to fulls in foams. Apparently it's my preference for bass earbuds, where I don't even want to sacrifice their treble potential. That said, I like thicker foams, for the sake of a better fit in my more dimensional ear. My ideals in terms of thickness and color palette from cheap foams are met by Trig Rain foams, but not so much in terms of sound, which, due to their density and thickness, dampens the highs. At the same time, such a wide colour palette of foams is not available in the donut version, or I just haven't discovered it. One more caveat: never order a color-mixed pack, the foams can easily color each other in the pack.

So I'd like to share the simple method by which I transform these full foams into donuts. I found the tool in my wife's workshop, she uses it when punching leather in making her handbags.
The diameter of the tool allows you to create exactly the hole you want on the side of the ear.

I suppose that this procedure has occurred to many people if by chance it hasn't, let them like it...

Trig Rain foams:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32671911259.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.21ef1802rSXwYF


----------



## JAnonymous5150

4ceratops said:


> I'll start by saying that I prefer donuts to fulls in foams. Apparently it's my preference for bass earbuds, where I don't even want to sacrifice their treble potential. That said, I like thicker foams, for the sake of a better fit in my more dimensional ear. My ideals in terms of thickness and color palette from cheap foams are met by Trig Rain foams, but not so much in terms of sound, which, due to their density and thickness, dampens the highs. At the same time, such a wide colour palette of foams is not available in the donut version, or I just haven't discovered it. One more caveat: never order a color-mixed pack, the foams can easily color each other in the pack.
> 
> So I'd like to share the simple method by which I transform these full foams into donuts. I found the tool in my wife's workshop, she uses it when punching leather in making her handbags.
> The diameter of the tool allows you to create exactly the hole you want on the side of the ear.
> ...



I use leather punches to create offset donuts where the hole isn't in the center, but is lower and to the side so that it lines up more closely with the entrance to my ear canal. I still use traditional donuts on some because the sound is different so the offset version just gives me another option. I believe it was @assassin10000 who introduced the idea to me.


----------



## Ronion (Nov 10, 2022)

4ceratops said:


> I'll start by saying that I prefer donuts to fulls in foams. Apparently it's my preference for bass earbuds, where I don't even want to sacrifice their treble potential. That said, I like thicker foams, for the sake of a better fit in my more dimensional ear. My ideals in terms of thickness and color palette from cheap foams are met by Trig Rain foams, but not so much in terms of sound, which, due to their density and thickness, dampens the highs. At the same time, such a wide colour palette of foams is not available in the donut version, or I just haven't discovered it. One more caveat: never order a color-mixed pack, the foams can easily color each other in the pack.
> 
> So I'd like to share the simple method by which I transform these full foams into donuts. I found the tool in my wife's workshop, she uses it when punching leather in making her handbags.
> The diameter of the tool allows you to create exactly the hole you want on the side of the ear.
> ...


This is really brilliant.  I was wondering if it could be so easy.  Punching holes so smoothly it’s almost greasy.  Making budget foams that breath so freely.  Would they ever get TB and wheezy?  With HieGi foams, it would feel so sleazy.  So sleazy and skeezy my girl might leave me…

yeah, I’ll keep my day job.  Buenos Dias earbud people.


----------



## brad86

I decided on buying some bell shape cases today. Even though I can't get on with MX500 fit, I'm hoping these might just fit a little better. Worth the risk.

I will be throwing my RY4S Plus driver inside them, as this is my favourite sounding earphone, just ahead of the Faaeal Iris V1.0. I have spare sets, so I can afford to mess up a couple. Considering how terrible sounding the B40 are in comparison to these sets, I felt like I had to find an alternative that works, without sacrificing the sound of those.


----------



## Ronion

I’m assuming you got bell shapes that can handle 15.4mm drivers?


----------



## brad86

Ronion said:


> I’m assuming you got bell shapes that can handle 15.4mm drivers?


I did indeed. Expecting the worst, but it's part of the fun, I guess. I'll be very happy if it works out sound, and fit wise.


----------



## Ronion

brad86 said:


> I did indeed. Expecting the worst, but it's part of the fun, I guess. I'll be very happy if it works out sound, and fit wise.


Let us know either way.  It’s all about learning and having fun.  Do you have a link to the shells?  I really want to do some metal shells, but the 2 I’ve bought are challenging to tune and I’m going to have to get my workbench assembled to make it happen.  I know how to make it happen, but I like the simplicity of these plastic shells.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Does anybody know what the story is behind the panther references nonsense at ASR? I end up on their measurments threads every once in a great while, like this evening, and the polls have references to panthers, Amir's begging for donations references panthers, people post references to panthers, etc, etc, etc. I've never stuck around long enough to track down an answer and don't really want to, but I seem to remember someone (@o0genesis0o maybe?) on this thread saying something about the "headless panther" stuff so I figured I'd ask.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Does anybody know what the story is behind the panther references nonsense at ASR? I end up on their measurments threads every once in a great while, like this evening, and the polls have references to panthers, Amir's begging for donations references panthers, people post references to panthers, etc, etc, etc. I've never stuck around long enough to track down an answer and don't really want to, but I seem to remember someone (@o0genesis0o maybe?) on this thread saying something about the "headless panther" stuff so I figured I'd ask.


Just Amir's cheeky way of providing subjective ranking of stuffs. Headless panther is the worst. Golfing panther (or happy panther? I don't remember) is the best. The polls at the top of the post by ASR commenters always seem to agree with whatever panther that Amir chose. 

Just to be clear, I have no problem with Amir at all (though I have seen people digging dirt about his shady links with some manufacturers). He is generally helpful and reasonable, and I find his measurements useful to a certain degree. For example, I have seen a certain Bluetooth DAC/AMP that have absolutely horrible measurement (30 SINAD, I think?) and poor output (~ 2Vrms balanced). No matter how "boutique" the brand is, I'm not paying that much for that performance. 

Some of his followers, though (you know, the "hungry for learning" crowds / clowns). I don't understand why some brands like iFi and many folks who like to "roll" sources stick around there for verbal abuse by those people. 


I don't know. There is some thing _icky_ when I think about DAC/AMP. I don't understand them enough because I didn't pay attention in electronic course in Uni, so I cannot say why things sound the way they sound. I know that they don't sound the same and some sources sound "better" (more separated, larger stage, better "depth"). However, I don't know how that differences happen and where they are on the measurement. Moreover, "experienced" folks on both "sides" are vocal about whether sources make / do not make a difference. So I always doubt what I hear (and have a lot of hesitation to pen reviews for DAC/AMPs).


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Just Amir's cheeky way of providing subjective ranking of stuffs. Headless panther is the worst. Golfing panther (or happy panther? I don't remember) is the best. The polls at the top of the post by ASR commenters always seem to agree with whatever panther that Amir chose.
> 
> Just to be clear, I have no problem with Amir at all (though I have seen people digging dirt about his shady links with some manufacturers). He is generally helpful and reasonable, and I find his measurements useful to a certain degree. For example, I have seen a certain Bluetooth DAC/AMP that have absolutely horrible measurement (30 SINAD, I think?) and poor output (~ 2Vrms balanced). No matter how "boutique" the brand is, I'm not paying that much for that performance.
> 
> ...



I feel you. If I was in your shoes and reviewing a DAC, amp, or combo I would just make it clear from the beginning that your review will be based solely on an audio lover and layman's subjective opinion on its sound and performance. It's hard to legitimately know and understand every facet of any of the audio tech we use every day unless you are immersed in the design, engineering, and production of them as a hobby. 

I, for one, find that the VAST majority of folks claiming to understand the minutiae of all these things on most forums are either too ignorant to know how much they stilk don't understand or are charlatans. They exist in every hobby and on both sides of any issue. That said, there are certainly some folks around who clearly understand a lot of the tech and I generally find them to be pretty easy to spot because they tend to be humble and helpful and are rarely the ones loudly proclaiming their viewpoints and expertise.

For me, I just trust my ears. I know from my profession and experience that I have very capable ears that are more than capable of telling me what they hear. I love to understand why they hear what they hear, but I'm also okay with sometimes admitting that I don't. It comes down to this: If my ears are consistently hearing a difference, then even if I can't explain that difference it make sense to adjust my experience based on it because, in the end, I'm the only one capablenof accurately evaluating my experience. The reasons behind the differences become secondary to the observation that they exist.

That said, I don't allow myself to be intellectually lazy or stop being rigorous in my pursuit of answers. When I hear a difference in some element of my rig, I do my utmost to isolate that element and replicate that difference under as many different circumstances as possible to both verify it's existence and to determine, as accurately as possible, its cause. Once that's done I spend quite a bit of time researching and attempting to educate myself in regards to the in and outs if the isolated component/technology so that I can pursue any future changes from a a place of educated understanding. The pursuit of that knowledge and understanding will never end for me and is one of the things I love about this hobby.

When I can't find adequate answers or my own intelligence and education limits my understanding (and I've done what I can to overcome those limits), I'm equally okay with admitting that I don't know something and simply stating that my belief relies upon my trust in my ears and experience. In something as subjective as audio, I take absolutes when I find them, but I relish the certain amount of wonder that exists in the areas where absolutes elude me.

For you as a reviewer, I understand the need to explain as much as you can in onjective absolutes, but don't forget that when people read your reviews they're also trusting your opinion. I think as long as you're open and honest about what those opinions are based off of, whether provable absolutes or subjective observation, people will respect those opinions. I mean, anyone can regurgitate measurments and write paragraphs interpreting a graph. A successful review, IMO, is as much, if not more, about telling the readers about what the graph doesn't cover. A graph doesn't tell the whole story and it's your job as a reviewer to try as best as you can to fill in the blanks. Thankfully you do that very well in your reviews.

Sorry for the treatise. That was a bit longer than I intended lol! 😂


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Just Amir's cheeky way of providing subjective ranking of stuffs. Headless panther is the worst. Golfing panther (or happy panther? I don't remember) is the best. The polls at the top of the post by ASR commenters always seem to agree with whatever panther that Amir chose.
> 
> Just to be clear, I have no problem with Amir at all (though I have seen people digging dirt about his shady links with some manufacturers). He is generally helpful and reasonable, and I find his measurements useful to a certain degree. For example, I have seen a certain Bluetooth DAC/AMP that have absolutely horrible measurement (30 SINAD, I think?) and poor output (~ 2Vrms balanced). No matter how "boutique" the brand is, I'm not paying that much for that performance.
> 
> ...


I bet the SINAD of my B4X is lousy.  It is however euphonic to me.  When I want something that’s utterly neutral, I have my Atom or my A5 in a portable situation.  They are definitely cleaner and have better separation and such.  Still there’s something about lousy sound that sounds good to me.  I’m not fooled into thinking it’s in some way better other than the better enjoyment I get from listening to it.    Nowadays the sources that are designed to be transparent are at worst so close to that as to be identical to the ear provided they have the power to get the transducers up to the same listening level and dynamic range.  Of course today I was at work on my lunch break with my Apple Dongle and a pair of 300 Ohm buds loving life listening to a John Williams composition that absolutely sounds like the various instrument groups were all playing in different keys—just mind blowingly good.  How people get things like that to work is beyond me, but I want to compose like that.  

I know my viewpoint may be contradictory for someone who has gone through so much work to get a neutral sounding set of earbuds, but you can see that they amount of destruction a DAC or amp does to the signal is orders of magnitude less than an average off the shelf transducer, so I view it as adding a little spice or in some cases making a meal a bit more insipid so that the raw quality of the ingredients can be enjoyed.






2/3rds of those amps were literally designed to create errors and of my commercial buds, these are the most neutral (Though none of them are that).


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I feel you. If I was in your shoes and reviewing a DAC, amp, or combo I would just make it clear from the beginning that your review will be based solely on an audio lover and layman's subjective opinion on its sound and performance. It's hard to legitimately know and understand every facet of any of the audio tech we use every day unless you are immersed in the design, engineering, and production of them as a hobby.
> 
> I, for one, find that the VAST majority of folks claiming to understand the minutiae of all these things on most forums are either too ignorant to know how much they stilk don't understand or are charlatans. They exist in every hobby and on both sides of any issue. That said, there are certainly some folks around who clearly understand a lot of the tech and I generally find them to be pretty easy to spot because they tend to be humble and helpful and are rarely the ones loudly proclaiming their viewpoints and expertise.
> 
> ...



Your ability to thumb your phone is outstanding, mate   

You know, "for you as a reviewer" suddenly makes me feel pretentious. What does it even mean to be a "reviewer". A talkative audio geek sounds better  

Btw, today I learn that the voice coil opening is supposed to face upward (the opposite direction to the stem). I swear that all tutorial that I learned and all the commercial buds that I have opened have the voice coil facing down. Strange.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Your ability to thumb your phone is outstanding, mate
> 
> You know, "for you as a reviewer" suddenly makes me feel pretentious. What does it even mean to be a "reviewer". A talkative audio geek sounds better
> 
> Btw, today I learn that the voice coil opening is supposed to face upward (the opposite direction to the stem). I swear that all tutorial that I learned and all the commercial buds that I have opened have the voice coil facing down. Strange.



Well, it was meant more as a compliment and was used because you were talking about your REVIEWS lol! BTW, a reviewer is one who reviews. 😉


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Well, it was meant more as a compliment and was used because you were talking about your REVIEWS lol! BTW, a reviewer is one who reviews. 😉


No worries mate. It's a joke  


Anyhow, is anyone familiar with these drivers? I think the LCP is the one @Ronion and @JAnonymous5150 have been talking about. The other one is just something affordable that I found before checking out.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> No worries mate. It's a joke
> 
> 
> Anyhow, is anyone familiar with these drivers? I think the LCP is the one @Ronion and @JAnonymous5150 have been talking about. The other one is just something affordable that I found before checking out.



I used the 300 LCPs in my last pair of DIY buds. I haven't worked with the others. Are they for your next build?


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I used the 300 LCPs in my last pair of DIY buds. I haven't worked with the others. Are they for your next build?


Yup! I'm going to make 10 MX500 shells with MMCX connectors and use two for these drivers.


----------



## assassin10000

4ceratops said:


> I'll start by saying that I prefer donuts to fulls in foams. Apparently it's my preference for bass earbuds, where I don't even want to sacrifice their treble potential. That said, I like thicker foams, for the sake of a better fit in my more dimensional ear. My ideals in terms of thickness and color palette from cheap foams are met by Trig Rain foams, but not so much in terms of sound, which, due to their density and thickness, dampens the highs. At the same time, such a wide colour palette of foams is not available in the donut version, or I just haven't discovered it. One more caveat: never order a color-mixed pack, the foams can easily color each other in the pack.
> 
> So I'd like to share the simple method by which I transform these full foams into donuts. I found the tool in my wife's workshop, she uses it when punching leather in making her handbags.
> The diameter of the tool allows you to create exactly the hole you want on the side of the ear.
> ...


There's some even nicer punches another member here showed me.

https://a.co/d/99oCz47


JAnonymous5150 said:


> I use leather punches to create offset donuts where the hole isn't in the center, but is lower and to the side so that it lines up more closely with the entrance to my ear canal. I still use traditional donuts on some because the sound is different so the offset version just gives me another option. I believe it was @assassin10000 who introduced the idea to me.


Yep and I got the idea from sean, another member that hasn't popped in this thread in a while.


brad86 said:


> I decided on buying some bell shape cases today. Even though I can't get on with MX500 fit, I'm hoping these might just fit a little better. Worth the risk.
> 
> I will be throwing my RY4S Plus driver inside them, as this is my favourite sounding earphone, just ahead of the Faaeal Iris V1.0. I have spare sets, so I can afford to mess up a couple. Considering how terrible sounding the B40 are in comparison to these sets, I felt like I had to find an alternative that works, without sacrificing the sound of those.





Ronion said:


> I’m assuming you got bell shapes that can handle 15.4mm drivers?





brad86 said:


> I did indeed. Expecting the worst, but it's part of the fun, I guess. I'll be very happy if it works out sound, and fit wise.





Ronion said:


> Let us know either way.  It’s all about learning and having fun.  Do you have a link to the shells?  I really want to do some metal shells, but the 2 I’ve bought are challenging to tune and I’m going to have to get my workbench assembled to make it happen.  I know how to make it happen, but I like the simplicity of these plastic shells.



I too have issues with mx500 fit. I had a hard time finding good 14.8mm bell shaped shells. 

I ended up sacrificing some K's LBB & LBBs shells. 





You can also cut the stem off a PK shell and MMCX convert it too. Super comfy over ear.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

assassin10000 said:


> There's some even nicer punches another member here showed me.
> 
> https://a.co/d/99oCz47
> 
> ...



Hey, since you're here, I'm about to do a build with the 40ohm Ti drivers you sent me. Planning on calling it the Assassin 40 in your honor. It will definitely sport the offset/asymmetrical donuts. 😎


----------



## assassin10000

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hey, since you're here, I'm about to do a build with the 40ohm Ti drivers you sent me. Planning on calling it the Assassin 40 in your honor. It will definitely sport the offset/asymmetrical donuts. 😎


Nice.

They definitely are a warmer driver with less emphasized pinna/treble. Donuts are the way with them.


----------



## Ronion

The Megatron is a beast when balanced.  It's insanely powerful.  I haven't done any side-by-side comparisons, but I definitely love the sound of it now.  It doesn't hurt that I made my first balanced buds with the 600Ohm Be drivers.  I need to do a 300 Ohm driver as well.  I tuned the 600 based on my experience with the driver and the thickness of the cable I used.  Interestingly enough, it measures a lot like whatever Monk comes with the Megatron.



This is exactly why I keep saying that the driver is actually more important than the tuning.  The difference between these 2 is night and day!  This Monk is easily the worst sounding bud I own and this 600Be is among the best.  Of course if you saw the Monk graphs in their full glory with the channel imbalances and all the crazy resonances in the treble it would be a bit more obvious.  The 600 average has zero channel imbalances and the biggest difference in the graphs used for the average is which amp is driving it--some it's the Megatron, some the MacBook.

This tuning was just based off an educated guess and there are some things I'd like to change about it, but I could also live with this and be completely happy forever.  It's just that I know I can make it sound a little better that I'm not going to stop here.

And the differences between the between the Megatron Balanced and the Megatron Single Ended doesn't exist in the frequency domain.  I'm going to test the subjective domain soon.



I bet everyone can guess which is the Megaton.


----------



## Ronion (Nov 11, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> No worries mate. It's a joke
> 
> 
> Anyhow, is anyone familiar with these drivers? I think the LCP is the one @Ronion and @JAnonymous5150 have been talking about. The other one is just something affordable that I found before checking out.


These are the LCPs!  I went from Sinus Brady with a first degree to Sinus Tach with some PVCs when I got ahold of these I dropped to my knees like getting stung by bees and tried to squeeze the cheese begging "please, please!" 

Okay, yeah those are some great drivers.

The other are the 300BeeGee (no affiliation with anyone participating in this thread that shouldn't be named in order to prevent tipping off his PR people).  We also refer to it as The Donkey.  It doesn't deserve that title as it's a pretty good driver that stays well composed and clear.  It just lacks bass.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> The Megatron is a beast when balanced.  It's insanely powerful.  I haven't done any side-by-side comparisons, but I definitely love the sound of it now.  It doesn't hurt that I made my first balanced buds with the 600Ohm Be drivers.  I need to do a 300 Ohm driver as well.  I tuned the 600 based on my experience with the driver and the thickness of the cable I used.  Interestingly enough, it measures a lot like whatever Monk comes with the Megatron.
> 
> This is exactly why I keep saying that the driver is actually more important than the tuning.  The difference between these 2 is night and day!  This Monk is easily the worst sounding bud I own and this 600Be is among the best.  Of course if you saw the Monk graphs in their full glory with the channel imbalances and all the crazy resonances in the treble it would be a bit more obvious.  The 600 average has zero channel imbalances and the biggest difference in the graphs used for the average is which amp is driving it--some it's the Megatron, some the MacBook.
> 
> ...



The our monk graphs are not that far off, at least until ear gain peak  Monk has pretty poor channel matching, especially in raw graphs. I don’t know, I think it sounds quite lovely. 



Is the purple line Megatron?

It’s great that people love Megatron. My review is gonna ruffle some feathers


----------



## Ronion

Yeah, the Monk has the worst channel balance of any buds I've measured and the resonances of each driver are in different locations.  One also has a Pinna Gain of 3dB more than the other.  Yours measure much closer than mine.  The 600 are absolutely identical.  People who think the drivers don't matter are mad or deaf and need to find a different hobby.

The Blue line is the Megatron...  The tell tale heart is the reduced treble.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> The Blue line is the Megatron... The tell tale heart is the reduced treble.


Darn! Should have remembered you mention “reduced treble”. Anyhow, sorry mate, I’m on the Topping G5 ship now


----------



## brad86

Ronion said:


> Let us know either way.  It’s all about learning and having fun.  Do you have a link to the shells?  I really want to do some metal shells, but the 2 I’ve bought are challenging to tune and I’m going to have to get my workbench assembled to make it happen.  I know how to make it happen, but I like the simplicity of these plastic shells.


These two are what I grabbed  

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...316681533200333405e7ed5!12000030916087932!rec

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...316681535472546288e7ed5!12000028258786202!rec


----------



## Ronion

brad86 said:


> These two are what I grabbed
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004892487425.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000014.21.346245f7fLaesI&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.40050.281175.0&scm_id=1007.40050.281175.0&scm-url=1007.40050.281175.0&pvid=c9dcc72f-e8ba-4625-9843-61c98c51c2b1&_t=gps-idcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.40050.281175.0,pvid:c9dcc72f-e8ba-4625-9843-61c98c51c2b1,tpp_buckets:668#2846#8115#2000&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000030916087932","sceneId":"30050"}&pdp_npi=2@dis!GBP!17.14!10.8!!!!!@211b446316681533200333405e7ed5!12000030916087932!rec
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004168201994.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.0.0.5f2c78988Qy4Y8&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller&scm=1007.13339.291025.0&scm_id=1007.13339.291025.0&scm-url=1007.13339.291025.0&pvid=f1048923-eb17-4cc8-80b1-2f3cc3cd03a7&_t=gps-idcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller,scm-url:1007.13339.291025.0,pvid:f1048923-eb17-4cc8-80b1-2f3cc3cd03a7,tpp_buckets:668#2846#8115#2000&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000028258786202","sceneId":"3339"}&pdp_npi=2@dis!GBP!10.48!6.29!!!!!@211b446316681535472546288e7ed5!12000028258786202!rec


Sweet!  I almost grabbed that second one just a few hours ago.  The first one I’ve never seen, but it sure looks purdy!


----------



## FranQL

o0genesis0o said:


> No worries mate. It's a joke
> 
> 
> Anyhow, is anyone familiar with these drivers? I think the LCP is the one @Ronion and @JAnonymous5150 have been talking about. The other one is just something affordable that I found before checking out.


definitely buy both


----------



## Ohmboy

Well nothing ventured nothing gained..

https://giphy.com/gifs/theweeknd-the-weeknd-heartless-VGoZVlR9naOZCiRLSy









🤷‍♂️🎶


----------



## goodwinds (Nov 12, 2022)

New buds from Toneking




Spoiler














if you like viridis, look this.
Sound more clear, but more critical to recording quality, than viridis


----------



## SKIBSKIB (Nov 12, 2022)

Has anyone tried the OpenHeart Rouxinol yet? My pair of RY4Ses stopped working after I washed them with my trousers in the washing machine.
I've seen reviews of OpenHearts' grado-like headphones and the impressions on them seem to be that they are excessively bright, which is the opposite of what I want, as I'm afraid this type of tuning is more of a brand style rather than an one-off thing.

What should I get as a replacement for my beloved RY4S then? Would the Rouxinol be a good fit or should I look into something else?

I'm looking for something under 15 USD with a preferably balanced response, maybe a little darker. I appreciate any help.


----------



## numon

goodwinds said:


> New buds from Toneking
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


do you have both ? if yes please give more impressions(soundstage wideness,detail and bass)


----------



## JAnonymous5150

SKIBSKIB said:


> Has anyone tried the OpenHeart Rouxinol yet? My pair of RY4Ses stopped working after I washed them with my trousers in the washing machine.
> I've seen reviews of OpenHearts' grado-like headphones and the impressions on them seem to be that they are excessively bright, which is the opposite of what I want, as I'm afraid this type of tuning is more of a brand style rather than an one-off thing.
> 
> What should I get as a replacement for my beloved RY4S then? Would the Rouxinol be a good fit or should I look into something else?
> ...



I had a pair of these OpenHearts show up with a dead driver and now I have another pair on their way to me. If you wait a week and a half or so I'll be able to tell you what they sound like.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

goodwinds said:


> New buds from Toneking
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



I love my Viridis, but I haven't ordered the Manbas yet. It seems inevitable, but I'm just enjoying what I've got ATM since I have picked up so many new sets in the last few months. You're the first person I have come across who has both and it's encouraging to hear that the Manbas are a good pair of buds too.


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I love my Viridis, but I haven't ordered the Manbas yet. It seems inevitable, but I'm just enjoying what I've got ATM since I have picked up so many new sets in the last few months. You're the first person I have come across who has both and it's encouraging to hear that the Manbas are a good pair of buds too.





goodwinds said:


> New buds from Toneking
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


I haven’t heard any of them, but I will say those Toneking buds are looking mighty fine.  Those green ones are like ear emeralds.  The cables look soft, flexible and little to no memory.  Must make for a nice wear as well provided the shell fits well.  Any remarks as far as fit is concerned?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> I haven’t heard any of them, but I will say those Toneking buds are looking mighty fine.  Those green ones are like ear emeralds.  The cables look soft, flexible and little to no memory.  Must make for a nice wear as well provided the shell fits well.  Any remarks as far as fit is concerned?



They fit me very well, but I have heard from more than one other person that the fit is tempermental for them. I don't even need to use the included ear fins even when walking around because they nestle nice and snug down into the bottom of my concha and stay put. I have heard others say that they move too much though of the two that I'm referring to one took my suggestion of adding a silicone ring and was fine from there on out while the other couldn't get a stable fit regardless.


----------



## Ronion

Good to know.  Makes me a bit leery about getting one.  My right ear can be a little finicky.  I heard they’re making a black and white model BTW that will be called the “Pamda”.  Not sure if that’s true 

In other news, I finished the tuning of my 600Be and have it balanced terminated for Megatron and Qudelix use.  I can absolutely understand why you love the Megatron.  It may not be the worlds most neutral sound, but that doesn’t keep it from being very enjoyable.  

this is where my entire collection of buds lies at this point:



Nearly as tight as my collection of amps now.  Things are looking up.


----------



## yaps66

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I love my Viridis, but I haven't ordered the Manbas yet. It seems inevitable, but I'm just enjoying what I've got ATM since I have picked up so many new sets in the last few months. You're the first person I have come across who has both and it's encouraging to hear that the Manbas are a good pair of buds too.


Yes. I love my Viridis and these definitely look inevitable!


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> Good to know.  Makes me a bit leery about getting one.  My right ear can be a little finicky.  I heard they’re making a black and white model BTW that will be called the “Pamda”.  Not sure if that’s true
> 
> In other news, I finished the tuning of my 600Be and have it balanced terminated for Megatron and Qudelix use.  I can absolutely understand why you love the Megatron.  It may not be the worlds most neutral sound, but that doesn’t keep it from being very enjoyable.
> 
> ...


Do you measure multiple times and take average? How come your lines are so thick


----------



## goodwinds (Nov 13, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I love my Viridis, but I haven't ordered the Manbas yet. It seems inevitable, but I'm just enjoying what I've got ATM since I have picked up so many new sets in the last few months. You're the first person I have come across who has both and it's encouraging to hear that the Manbas are a good pair of buds too.





numon said:


> do you have both ? if yes please give more impressions(soundstage wideness,detail and bass)






it's hard for me to fit my perception of sound into these terms. I can try to express it like this

viridis:
a softer, rounded sound. it is more muddy, but at the same time very pleasant and harmonious. it has the integrity of music. the resolution is slightly smaller, the scene is closer, draws the sound in large strokes

manba:
a more transparent, sharp sound. space and volume are better constructed. the sound is not as solid as that of viridis, but it is more delicate and multi-faceted.


----------



## ian91

goodwinds said:


> it's hard for me to fit my perception of sound into these terms. I can try to express it like this
> 
> viridis:
> a softer, rounded sound. it is more muddy, but at the same time very pleasant and harmonious. it has the integrity of music. the resolution is slightly smaller, the scene is closer, draws the sound in large strokes
> ...




Those donut foams look plush, are they stock? Also, thanks for sharing your impressions


----------



## goodwinds

ian91 said:


> Those donut foams look plush, are they stock? Also, thanks for sharing your impressions


No, i bought they on Aliexpress. In general, not bad foams and inexpensive, but in some cases they seemed too synthetic to me. I like foams in which there is more cotton or some kind of organic matter. But if you are interested in them, here is a store name


Spoiler



Trig Rain Official Store


----------



## numon (Nov 13, 2022)

goodwinds said:


> it's hard for me to fit my perception of sound into these terms. I can try to express it like this
> 
> viridis:
> a softer, rounded sound. it is more muddy, but at the same time very pleasant and harmonious. it has the integrity of music. the resolution is slightly smaller, the scene is closer, draws the sound in large strokes
> ...


thanks  for your  answer. sorry but i have few thing that couldnt understand.
  scene is closer means narrower? and sound is  solid mean thicker?


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Do you measure multiple times and take average? How come your lines are so thick


I do measure multiple times and take the average.  4 with each side, so 8 total measurements.  I also make sure each driver is measuring identical (within a dB) up to 7kHz.  All these are essentially perfect pairs.

I tell REW to paint my lines thick for averages.  You can change those settings though if you don’t like them.  It keeps me from getting too OCD.


----------



## dsonance

JAnonymous5150 said:


> They fit me very well, but I have heard from more than one other person that the fit is tempermental for them. I don't even need to use the included ear fins even when walking around because they nestle nice and snug down into the bottom of my concha and stay put. I have heard others say that they move too much though of the two that I'm referring to one took my suggestion of adding a silicone ring and was fine from there on out while the other couldn't get a stable fit regardless.


For me, silicon rings, fins, and FF3 bass foams were all necessary to eliminate a kind of nasal quality in treble I heard on the Viridis. The fit felt fine without them, but the sound definitely improved when I added them - thanks to @JAnonymous5150's advice!

In the end though, I'm still feeling their sound is not quite my cup of tea...

If anyone in US is interested, my Toneking Viridis is for sale.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

dsonance said:


> For me, silicon rings, fins, and FF3 bass foams were all necessary to eliminate a kind of nasal quality in treble I heard on the Viridis. The fit felt fine without them, but the sound definitely improved when I added them - thanks to @JAnonymous5150's advice!
> 
> In the end though, I'm still feeling their sound is not quite my cup of tea...
> 
> If anyone in US is interested, my Toneking Viridis is for sale.



Different strokes for different folks. They don't sound nasal at all to me, but they do seem to be a love-hate kinda earbud for most people.


----------



## dsonance

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Different strokes for different folks. They don't sound nasal at all to me, but they do seem to be a love-hate kinda earbud for most people.


Would be great to find a more appreciative home for mine


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Nov 13, 2022)

dsonance said:


> Would be great to find a more appreciative home for mine



Not with me. I already have mine lol! BTW, I gave the PT2021s a quick listen earlier this morning and liked what I was hearing. Lots of detail for sure. Currently listening to some Blur 266 MX150 I just got, but the PT2021s are on deck. Based on what I heard, they have real potential.


----------



## SKIBSKIB

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I had a pair of these OpenHearts show up with a dead driver and now I have another pair on their way to me. If you wait a week and a half or so I'll be able to tell you what they sound like.


I'm really looking forward to it. I'm a little afraid to try it out without anyone else's opinion on them, especially not having any idea of what they might or might not sound like. With the exchange rate being really unfavorable to us brazilians, 15 USD is still cheap but not so cheap that you would spend it without a care in the world.


----------



## drewbadour (Nov 13, 2022)

Hi friends,

I need to make some room for a very irresponsible purchase (eyeing some very expensive buds) and I wanted to make sure you all had first dibs before posting in classifieds!

1. Old stock Yuin PK1 in mint condition. This is not the new one but rather is an 8 year old one using the original driver - hard to find these days! Price is 60$ shipped in the US. Happy to ship internationally for an additional charge.

2. RikuBuds Grand Rider 1 - mint condition 95$ shipped in the US.

If you want both, I'm happy to drop price to 140$ shipped!

Cheers!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

drewbadour said:


> Hi friends,
> 
> I need to make some room for a very irresponsible purchase and I wanted to make sure you all had first dibs on something that is a bit hard to find these days, my old stock Yuin PK1 in mint condition. This is not the new one but rather is an 8 year old one using the original driver - hard to find these days!
> 
> ...



Ooh, that's a good deal for someone who wants one of the OG ultimate PKs. The new version of the Yuin PK1s will run you like $130 from Penon IIRC and many say it's not as good as the OG. Tempting, tempting...


----------



## ttorbic

drewbadour said:


> Hi friends,
> 
> I need to make some room for a very irresponsible purchase (eyeing some very expensive buds) and I wanted to make sure you all had first dibs before posting in classifieds!
> 
> ...


More expensive than TGX's Ripples? Hmm I wonder which one! I think some of VE's very TOTL might be hundreds of dollars... Curious 🤔


----------



## drewbadour

ttorbic said:


> More expensive than TGX's Ripples? Hmm I wonder which one! I think some of VE's very TOTL might be hundreds of dollars... Curious 🤔


Already have money set aside for ripples and VE Zen 3.0 haha.

But yeah I'm eyeing VE Sun Copper. 😅


----------



## Stevehamny

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Not with me. I already have mine lol! BTW, I gave the PT2021s a quick listen earlier this morning and liked what I was hearing. Lots of detail for sure. Currently listening to some Blur 266 MX150 I just got, but the PT2021s are on deck. Based on what I heard, they have real potential.


JA, whenever I break out my PT2021s, I put them on and I feel like I'm listening to the music from the last row in the theater, or maybe even from the lobby. Did I just get a bad unit or are you also experiencing this "distant" soundstaging?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Stevehamny said:


> JA, whenever I break out my PT2021s, I put them on and I feel like I'm listening to the music from the last row in the theater, or maybe even from the lobby. Did I just get a bad unit or are you also experiencing this "distant" soundstaging?



Nope, mine don't play that way at all. They do have a largish soundstage,  but they don't sound distant to me. Sure, some sources are placed further away than others, but when I listen to the same track on more intimate staged buds the relative placement is the same if they're high quality buds that don't collapse into congestion.

Im thinking it could be a few things. First, you could have a bad set as I have read that Senfers QC isn't the best and the PT2021s and PT2022s can vary a bit set from set. Second, you may be one of those people that just doesn't like a larger soundstage because it allows for placemebt of sources further away than you find to be natural. This isn't actually all that rare and is something I find with people relatively regularly when I let them listen to my AKG K7xx/K8xx series headphones or my HD800S. Sometimes that wide presentation with that much space can make soubd sources seem quite far away. That said, the PT2021s aren't nearly that wide in their staging. Do you have other buds that are known for having a wide soundstage that you like? If you do, which ones. Maybe I've heard them too and that would give me an idea of how you're hearing soundstage in something we both know and trust to be correct.

Third and last, what impedance are yours and what are you driving them with. Mine are the 365ohm version and I have found with many higher impedance transducers that they can sound weaker and distant if they're being underdriven. I'm guessing you know how to properly drive your earbuds and would know if this is even a possibility, but it crossed my mind so I figured I would include it.

I plugged the PT2021s in when I read your post so I could check and listen to them while responding. I'm hearing a soubdstage that's on the bigger side, but it's not unnaturally so. However, I did just hear a track that uses a bunch if reverb and echo effects to add atmosphere and there was certainly a sense of distance as if I was listening from the audience in a mid-sized venue. For most tracks, the singer is front and center originating fairly closely in front of me. The drums come off arrayed pretty widely from left to right well outside of my head, but again, not what I would call distant. Other instruments take their places between those points and it creates a nice sense of space. Overall, nothing I would think of as unnaturally distant or sounding like I'm listening from the back row.

This is beside the point, but the detail retrieval is really excellent for such a moestly priced pair of buds.


----------



## goodwinds

numon said:


> thanks  for your  answer. sorry but i have few thing that couldnt understand.
> scene is closer means narrower? and sound is  solid mean thicker?


solid sound, i mean more holistic
scene is closer means closer) this is not an aspect of the horizontal of the sound, it is probably the depth, if we talk about the width, then mamba is a little wider or they are approximately equal

ps: as far as I understood, asking the seller, the name "manba" is a mistake. the correct name is "mamba", black mamba


----------



## JAnonymous5150

goodwinds said:


> as far as I understood, asking the seller, the name "manba" is a mistake. the correct name is "mamba", black mamba



That was my guess when they were first posted abouy here weeks ago,  but it is funnier to say Manba lol 😜


----------



## numon

goodwinds said:


> solid sound, i mean more holistic
> scene is closer means closer) this is not an aspect of the horizontal of the sound, it is probably the depth, if we talk about the width, then mamba is a little wider or they are approximately equal
> 
> ps: as far as I understood, asking the seller, the name "manba" is a mistake. the correct name is "mamba", black mamba


thanks 
 please  compare   bass quality/quantiy between them


----------



## Esclink

JAnonymous5150 said:


> That really depends on you and what sound profile you prefer as well as what you're planning using them for. Also, how much you're willing to spend could be a factor as well. If you can give me/us a budget, maybe some sound signature or music preferences, and whether you'll be using them for music, movies, games, etc then I/we can probably give you a better answer rather than a huge list of buds.


Im looking for a well rounded profile. I want to use them with standard AUX devices, so they shouldn't have high resistance. No genre preference and price range eather under 200€ or under 50€. And in general I wanned to know which ones would be recommended without a price cap.


----------



## goodwinds (Nov 14, 2022)

numon said:


> thanks
> please  compare   bass quality/quantiy between them


what I described earlier also applies to low frequencies.
in mamba, they are more defined, dry, elastic.
in viridis, they are more lush, softened.


----------



## Stevehamny

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Nope, mine don't play that way at all. They do have a largish soundstage,  but they don't sound distant to me. Sure, some sources are placed further away than others, but when I listen to the same track on more intimate staged buds the relative placement is the same if they're high quality buds that don't collapse into congestion.
> 
> Im thinking it could be a few things. First, you could have a bad set as I have read that Senfers QC isn't the best and the PT2021s and PT2022s can vary a bit set from set. Second, you may be one of those people that just doesn't like a larger soundstage because it allows for placemebt of sources further away than you find to be natural. This isn't actually all that rare and is something I find with people relatively regularly when I let them listen to my AKG K7xx/K8xx series headphones or my HD800S. Sometimes that wide presentation with that much space can make soubd sources seem quite far away. That said, the PT2021s aren't nearly that wide in their staging. Do you have other buds that are known for having a wide soundstage that you like? If you do, which ones. Maybe I've heard them too and that would give me an idea of how you're hearing soundstage in something we both know and trust to be correct.
> 
> ...


JA, you always post such thorough and thoughtful responses, and I hope you know how much it's appreciated. (But do I recall you claiming that you do all this with two thumbs on your phone? Because AIN'T NO WAY, BROTHER.) 

But anyway, I've got the 147 version (assuming it was packaged correctly) running off a BTR5, which should be plenty of power. There's plenty of _volume_, put it that way. (Whether more power improves anything else is one of those questions that I probably already regret mentioning.) But if Santa comes through with my list, I'll have some more power to play with and I'll get to see for myself, will be interesting to see if that changes anything.

(Bottom line, I bought these on a lark and now I'm just curious about why they sound so distant. Once I try the more-power experiment, I'll be happy to give them away if anyone wants to try them.)


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Stevehamny said:


> JA, you always post such thorough and thoughtful responses, and I hope you know how much it's appreciated. (But do I recall you claiming that you do all this with two thumbs on your phone? Because AIN'T NO WAY, BROTHER.)
> 
> But anyway, I've got the 147 version (assuming it was packaged correctly) running off a BTR5, which should be plenty of power. There's plenty of _volume_, put it that way. (Whether more power improves anything else is one of those questions that I probably already regret mentioning.) But if Santa comes through with my list, I'll have some more power to play with and I'll get to see for myself, will be interesting to see if that changes anything.
> 
> (Bottom line, I bought these on a lark and now I'm just curious about why they sound so distant. Once I try the more-power experiment, I'll be happy to give them away if anyone wants to try them.)



I swear. Two thumbs and a smart phone. Thanks for the kind words. TBH, I don't think it's the power thing. The 147ohm version should be driven just fine by the BTR5. Do all elements of the music sound distant? For example, does the vocalist sound like he/she is singing from a significant distance away or from a few in front of you?


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Nov 15, 2022)

Esclink said:


> Im looking for a well rounded profile. I want to use them with standard AUX devices, so they shouldn't have high resistance. No genre preference and price range eather under 200€ or under 50€. And in general I wanned to know which ones would be recommended without a price cap.



For a sub €200 all-arounder, you have options like the Yincrow RW-2000, Shozy BK, Penon Audio BS1 Official, and the Simphonio Dragon 2+. Those would be what I would look at for off the shelf buds.

Then you also have options from DIY makers like @RikudouGoku , @tgx78 , Blur, Cypherus Audio (@Cyperus ), and more that are all worth a look too.

I'm sure more will occur to me as soon as I post this so I may be responding more than once, but these are all great options. I own or have owned all of the off the shelf buds I mentioned and can attest to them being fantastic options. The only reason I no longer own the RW-2000s and Dragon 2+ is because I bought their successors, but both are great and I've actually been considering buying the RW-2000 again.


----------



## drewbadour

JAnonymous5150 said:


> For a sub €200 all-arounder, you have options like the Yincrow RW-2000, Shozy BK, Penon Audio BS1 Official, and the Simphonio Dragon 2+. Those would be what I would look at for off the shelf buds.
> 
> Then you also have options from DIY makers like @RikudouGoku , @tgx78 , Blur, Cypherus Audio, and more that are all worth a look too.
> 
> I'm sure more will occur to me as soon as I post this so I may be responding more than once, but these are all great options. I own or have owned all of the off the shelf buds I mentioned and can attest to them being fantastic options. The only reason I no longer own the RW-2000s and Dragon 2+ is because I bought their successors, but both are great and I've actually been considering buying the RW-2000 again.


All things on my list of buds to try one day  

I'd also add VE Asura 3.0 FE to that list - been enjoying mine greatly for the past few days.


----------



## Stevehamny

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I swear. Two thumbs and a smart phone. Thanks for the kind words. TBH, I don't think it's the power thing. The 147ohm version should be driven just fine by the BTR5. Do all elements of the music sound distant? For example, does the vocalist sound like he/she is singing from a significant distance away or from a few in front of you?









I thought you had to be born after 2000 to do this, but I guess we'll have to take your word for it!

As far as the PT2021 goes, yeah, it all sounds uniformly distant, like I just bought my ticket and I'm still in the lobby and DAMN I can hear they've already started playing!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Stevehamny said:


> I thought you had to be born after 2000 to do this, but I guess we'll have to take your word for it!
> 
> As far as the PT2021 goes, yeah, it all sounds uniformly distant, like I just bought my ticket and I'm still in the lobby and DAMN I can hear they've already started playing!



Okay, I'm not that fast 😂

That's so weird. That description makes me think there has to be something wrong with your earbuds. A large soundstage and being underpowered doesn't account for that kinda sound. I think you should crack those bad boys open and see if you've got a driver that has come loose from its mounting or something.


----------



## Stevehamny

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay, I'm not that fast 😂
> 
> That's so weird. That description makes me think there has to be something wrong with your earbuds. A large soundstage and being underpowered doesn't account for that kinda sound. I think you should crack those bad boys open and see if you've got a driver that has come loose from its mounting or something.


I'll try the increased power experiment just for the hell of it (again, assuming that Santa* is good to me this year), and then once I've controlled for that variable I guess I can bust 'em open.  I've never done that before, so maybe by then someone else will want to take them and play mad scientist...

(*Santa=my lovely wife, who pretty much bats a thousand on Christmas wish items)


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Stevehamny said:


> I'll try the increased power experiment just for the hell of it (again, assuming that Santa* is good to me this year), and then once I've controlled for that variable I guess I can bust 'em open.  I've never done that before, so maybe by then someone else will want to take them and play mad scientist...
> 
> (*Santa=my lovely wife, who pretty much bats a thousand on Christmas wish items)



Hit me up after Christmas and I might be down to take them off your hands just to solve the mystery.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

goodwinds said:


> ps: as far as I understood, asking the seller, the name "manba" is a mistake. the correct name is "mamba", black mamba


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-17126188


----------



## numon

goodwinds said:


> what I described earlier also applies to low frequencies.
> in mamba, they are more defined, dry, elastic.
> in viridis, they are more lush, softened.


thanks for answers really
  which one is your  favorite one?is black one really upgrade or there is harsh on high much?[green one said that there is already brightness may make problem for  some)


----------



## Ronion (Nov 15, 2022)

Edited—will repost


----------



## goodwinds

numon said:


> thanks for answers really
> which one is your  favorite one?is black one really upgrade or there is harsh on high much?[green one said that there is already brightness may make problem for  some)


my understanding things not to divide into worse and better, but to try to notice the peculiarities of each sound variant. 
I like them each in their own way, but I like viridis a little more, while the sound quality of mamba is better. perhaps with the time of warming up, the mamba will open more attractively.


----------



## Ronion

Stevehamny said:


> JA, whenever I break out my PT2021s, I put them on and I feel like I'm listening to the music from the last row in the theater, or maybe even from the lobby. Did I just get a bad unit or are you also experiencing this "distant" soundstaging?


This may be a stupid question, but are you listening with foams on?  Without foams most earbuds have this presentation IME.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

In a few days I should finally have the DQSM Turandot. I have been wanting to try these out for quite a while and today I finally worked out a trade for a pair in like new condition. So stoked!


----------



## Ronion

That's awesome brother.  Be sure and give us the rundown even if it's unfavorable.  I've been curious about this one for a long time.  I wish it was higher impedance, but you can't have everything.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> That's awesome brother.  Be sure and give us the rundown even if it's unfavorable.  I've been curious about this one for a long time.  I wish it was higher impedance, but you can't have everything.



I will absolutely put together one of my impressions summaries for it. I am particularly looking forward to it because based off some of the comments I have read it seems like it would be right up my alley. I too wish it was higher impedance and I read some posts fromblike 2019/2020 about a higher impedance version coming out, but if it ever did, I can't find it. 

Regardless, the Turandot is supposed to be pretty impressive. I have read multiple comparisons to the Simphonio Dragon 3 (and 2+ for that matter) which I am still impressed by so that's some high praise in my book. Back when I had the Moondrop Chaconne and decided it wasn't for me and that I would be selling it, the Turandot was what I had planned to acquire to replace it, but that never ended up happening so this represents the fulfillment of a solid six months of wanting to try these bad boys. 👍😎


----------



## emusic13

I don't use mine much anymore but the Turandot is still quite good, I prefer it with donut foams. Should be a good addition to your collection


----------



## JAnonymous5150

emusic13 said:


> I don't use mine much anymore but the Turandot is still quite good, I prefer it with donut foams. Should be a good addition to your collection



Any source recommendations by chance? And which donuts do you use on them? Donuts that came with them, HieGi, something else?

Thanks for the tip!


----------



## emusic13

I prefer it with a warm source. I think it's stock donut foams, I forgot


----------



## JAnonymous5150

emusic13 said:


> I prefer it with a warm source. I think it's stock donut foams, I forgot



Haha no worries! I appreciate the tips anyways. I have plenty of different types if donuts I can try and I also happen to have sources that range from clinical to warm like your favorite hoodie so I'll be sure to investigate source synergy starting with my warmer rigs.

According to the estimate on the USPS tracking website, I should have the Turandot on Saturday. In case you guys couldn't tell, I'm super excited for this pair. 😎


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Nov 16, 2022)

Listening to Yes' album Fragile on the FF3s right now and for as much as I have gone on and on praising their huge presentation and the tactile, articulate, and authoritative natute of their bass, somehow I feel like I haven't shown enough appreciation for just how refined these buds are as well.

When I see people describing these buds, including myself, the bass and "fun" tuning is always mentioned which I think leads a lot of folks to look past these thinking that they're somehow unfit for any kind of serious listening. The FF3s are surprisingly capable when it comes to finesse and dynamics. Their unparalleled ability to sound thunderously powerful gets all the attention for obvious reasons, but they can turn on a dime and recreate the most gentile passages with equal aplomb.

I've had these for months and I listen to them often, but they still actively impress me when I'm listening by showing new sides to their character and new levels of expressiveness. The $84 sale price seems to be basically permanent and during the 11/11 sales I saw the FF3s for like $73 without any coupons added. For that money, these earbuds are a steal and if there's a better pair available for the money I haven't found it.

When I have time this weekend I'm gonna take a wack at doing an MMCX mod to my extra pair. I have to admit that the stock cable has actually been pretty good. Better than I thought it would be when I first got ahold of the FF3s. Now if they would just release the FF5s...


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Listening to Yes' album Fragile on the FF3s right now and for as much as I have gone on and on praising their huge presentation and the tactile, articulate, and authoritative natute of their bass, somehow I feel like I haven't shown enough appreciation for just how refined these buds are as well.
> 
> When I see people describing these buds, includibg myself, the bass and "fun" tuning is always mentioned which I think leads a lot of folks to look past these thinking that they're somehow unfit for any kind of serious listening. The FF3s are surprisingly capable when it comes to finesse and dynamics. Their unparalleled ability to sound thunderously powerful gets all the attention for obvious reasons, but they can turn on a dime and recreate the most gentile passages with equal aplomb.
> 
> ...


I have always thought (from day one) that the FF3 are fun/analytical type tuning... It seems that nowadays you CAN have both. 

In days gone by you either got analytical (HD800 or similar), or fun (VModa or similar), but makers nowadays are making them so that they can double as either (though usually a bit more of one thing than the other). I would still call the FF3 more fun than analytical, but you can definitely do some critical listening with them. This is actually what I look for in a set because IMO it makes them more versatile or "all rounders". 

I still think the Yinmans top all out there (from the shelf) with the right pairing though. But only over the FF3 by a bit.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> I have always thought (from day one) that the FF3 are fun/analytical type tuning... It seems that nowadays you CAN have both.
> 
> In days gone by you either got analytical (HD800 or similar), or fun (VModa or similar), but makers nowadays are making them so that they can double as either (though usually a bit more of one thing than the other). I would still call the FF3 more fun than analytical, but you can definitely do some critical listening with them. This is actually what I look for in a set because IMO it makes them more versatile or "all rounders".
> 
> I still think the Yinmans top all out there (from the shelf) with the right pairing though. But only over the FF3 by a bit.



I totally agree on everything except I think I ultimately prefer the FF3s. Only because I enjoy their tuning and presentation more, but I think they're both great values. The Yinmans less so because of their amplification requirements and the fact that they're a bit more expensive than the FF3s. That said, I own both and that's unlikely to change any time soon.

P.S. Long time no talk, bro! I should be getting access to Discord back after my meeting with the hacks in the legal department tomorrow so hopefully we'll get to talk more often soon. I hope everything is going well!


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I totally agree on everything except I think I ultimately prefer the FF3s. Only because I enjoy their tuning and presentation more, but I think they're both great values. The Yinmans less so because of their amplification requirements and the fact that they're a bit more expensive than the FF3s. That said, I own both and that's unlikely to change any time soon.
> 
> P.S. Long time no talk, bro! I should be getting access to Discord back after my meeting with the hacks in the legal department tomorrow so hopefully we'll get to talk more often soon. I hope everything is going well!



You guys have secret dates on discord as well   

Speaking of FF3, I should bring it to work today. It has been a while


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> You guys have secret dates on discord as well
> 
> Speaking of FF3, I should bring it to work today. It has been a while



Nope, no secret dates. He (and most of the guys from this thread) kick it on there at Flathead Sanctuary more often these days and I haven't been able to sign on for over a month now while these jackasses review my forum/social media accounts to make sure I have been abiding by my contractual obligations. They have been taking FOREVER!


----------



## drewbadour (Nov 17, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Nope, no secret dates. He (and most of the guys from this thread) kick it on there at Flathead Sanctuary more often these days and I haven't been able to sign on for over a month now while these jackasses review my forum/social media accounts to make sure I have been abiding by my contractual obligations. They have been taking FOREVER!


 hope you get approved soon - your return will be much appreciated!


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I totally agree on everything except I think I ultimately prefer the FF3s. Only because I enjoy their tuning and presentation more, but I think they're both great values. The Yinmans less so because of their amplification requirements and the fact that they're a bit more expensive than the FF3s. That said, I own both and that's unlikely to change any time soon.
> 
> P.S. Long time no talk, bro! I should be getting access to Discord back after my meeting with the hacks in the legal department tomorrow so hopefully we'll get to talk more often soon. I hope everything is going well!


Yeah, I gotta' say it IS that close, and to be honest, if I didn't already have something that would drive them properly (and synergize well), I probably would have gone with the FF3 also. But as you said, I will not be parting with either one any time soon. 

It has been a while. I have been really busy and have had no time to chat much (though I try and read this thread all the time). I haven't been on the Discord server for some time either (except to chat with my Hermano de otra madre) @FranQL now and again.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Yeah, I gotta' say it IS that close, and to be honest, if I didn't already have something that would drive them properly (and synergize well), I probably would have gone with the FF3 also. But as you said, I will not be parting with either one any time soon.
> 
> It has been a while. I have been really busy and have had no time to chat much (though I try and read this thread all the time). I haven't been on the Discord server for some time either (except to chat with my Hermano de otra madre) @FranQL now and again.



If @FranQL is your hermano then I must be too because I swear that crazy Spaniard is my long lost audio twin!

I'm glad to hear everything is going okay. I just assumed you were hanging out on Discord because I saw that you had posted there quite a bit before I had to turn over my account access for this BS audit. Life has a way of getting hectic sometimes, but it's good to see you around. I'll be sure to shoot you a message when I'm back up and running on there as well.


----------



## FranQL (Nov 16, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> If @FranQL is your hermano then I must be too because I swear that crazy Spaniard is my long lost audio twin!
> 
> I'm glad to hear everything is going okay. I just assumed you were hanging out on Discord because I saw that you had posted there quite a bit before I had to turn over my account access for this BS audit. Life has a way of getting hectic sometimes, but it's good to see you around. I'll be sure to shoot you a message when I'm back up and running on there as well.



and it's great!!!!!! It's a pleasure to talk about audio and anything else with you! I have yet to take @samandhi  to the dark side of DIY but... I'll get it.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Listening to Yes' album Fragile on the FF3s right now and for as much as I have gone on and on praising their huge presentation and the tactile, articulate, and authoritative natute of their bass, somehow I feel like I haven't shown enough appreciation for just how refined these buds are as well.
> 
> When I see people describing these buds, includibg myself, the bass and "fun" tuning is always mentioned which I think leads a lot of folks to look past these thinking that they're somehow unfit for any kind of serious listening. The FF3s are surprisingly capable when it comes to finesse and dynamics. Their unparalleled ability to sound thunderously powerful gets all the attention for obvious reasons, but they can turn on a dime and recreate the most gentile passages with equal aplomb.
> 
> ...








Gears of the day: Fiio FF3 with Topping G5. Slacking off from editing my research article by listening to Bach Cello Suites performed by Yo-Yo Ma. Can the music BE any better?

I found this FF3 + G5 a good pairing. The G5 is just clean clean clean, without emphasising treble to "sharpen" the sound like some other dongles. So it brings out the best quality of FF3 and taming the lower-midrange just a touch. The pitch black background of G5 also helps to make the soundstage depth illusion of FF3 pop.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

FranQL said:


> and it's great!!!!!! It's a pleasure to talk about audio and anything else with you! I have yet to take @samandhi  to the dark side of DIY but... I'll get it.



We'll have to strategize on how to convert him to the DIY Darkside. Between the Blue Voodoo 600s, the Blur 266 MX150s, the Hifiman HE400is, and the AKG K702s I'm starting to feel like you and I must hear things pretty much the same way. It's crazy and super cool at the same time! 😎🤘


----------



## dsonance (Nov 16, 2022)

The FF3 will forever have my gratitude for opening my eyes (ears?) to the earbuds phenomenon, and pulling me out of the futile search for a perfect IEM. They completely upturned everything I thought I knew about earbuds. I returned all the IEMs I was considering at the time, and have no desire to look back whatsoever.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Gears of the day: Fiio FF3 with Topping G5. Slacking off from editing my research article by listening to Bach Cello Suites performed by Yo-Yo Ma. Can the music BE any better?
> 
> I found this FF3 + G5 a good pairing. The G5 is just clean clean clean, without emphasising treble to "sharpen" the sound like some other dongles. So it brings out the best quality of FF3 and taming the lower-midrange just a touch. The pitch black background of G5 also helps to make the soundstage depth illusion of FF3 pop.


The only off the shelf buds I’ve enjoyed without retuning is the FF3 and they’ll likely be the only I keep.  The FF5 are going to be tempting though as I have more and more trust that FiiO will actually improve them.  I‘ve only heard one other low impedance driver have a soundstage like them and none come to mind with the raw power and resolution.  I mean have only heard a small fraction of what’s available, but suffice to say I’ve messed around with my fare share.  The build quality is also very good.  For the money and ease of driving, it’s exceedingly hard to fault them.  That why when people come to the thread and vaguely ask for a recommendation, they are my go to.  They do well in all regards and are fun to listen to at any reasonable volume.


----------



## barato (Nov 16, 2022)

Ronion said:


> I bought that copper shell as well . It just arrived.  Hopefully I'll have the mustard to do some work on it, but I want to be sure all of my recent creations are complete and I'm not overlooking something.  I know the 300LCP and 600Be are mine forever  I would run that LCP a while before you tune it.  I have evidence that it changes quite a bit when you just start using it--at least over the first 20 hours.  Then several hours later it also looks to be gaining bass.
> 
> 
> Now if only my Megatron would get here....



I had fairly short time with my LCP 300s in plain MX500 shell before driver got damaged

Like everyone says there is something pretty special about them, the sound had a very sweet quality.
They were lacking some sparkle, but this was to be expected... and better a lack of sparkle than forced, harsh treble

Now, there was a peak in response that I did not like, I think its shown here in NSC Store and your graph. Adding a thicker tuning foam to the rear driver vents helped and tightened up the sound a bit but did not cure it. The drivers were still very fresh but If I understand you correctly the peak became more pronounced after break in?

Hopefully not, I would like to stick with LCP, but not sure what else can done tuning wise.

I didnt get to try foams but they will be needed for comfort, not sure if they'll help, I imagine it be too dark and rolled off if they do.

The only thing left that might influence the peak is a front cover, cant predict what effect that will be


----------



## samandhi

Spoiler: @JAnonymous5150






JAnonymous5150 said:


> If @FranQL is your hermano then I must be too because I swear that crazy Spaniard is my long lost audio twin!
> 
> I'm glad to hear everything is going okay. I just assumed you were hanging out on Discord because I saw that you had posted there quite a bit before I had to turn over my account access for this BS audit. Life has a way of getting hectic sometimes, but it's good to see you around. I'll be sure to shoot you a message when I'm back up and running on there as well.


Then we MUST be, because I would swear that we have VERY similar tastes in tuning and sound from head gear also. Plus, we even actually look a lot alike, and like MANY of the same things outside of the realm of head gear. 

Life does indeed get in the way sometimes with its (potential) frantic pace. And thank you, it is good to see you still around also. Did your tour go well? You don't seem to be in a drunken depressed state, so I can only assume that it DID indeed..   

I have been through everything of late from COVID, to working on sites that require top secret clearance levels (which really sucks having to work having all of the "red tape" in place that really slows things down to less than a crawl), and having to have an escort at all times during a work day, to having a 4 hour round-trip drive daily (thankfully I have a company vehicle ).





Spoiler: @FranQL






FranQL said:


> and it's great!!!!!! It's a pleasure to talk about audio and anything else with you! I have yet to take @samandhi  to the dark side of DIY but... I'll get it.


Not for lack of trying, mind you. 





Spoiler: @o0genesis0o






o0genesis0o said:


> Gears of the day: Fiio FF3 with Topping G5. Slacking off from editing my research article by listening to Bach Cello Suites performed by Yo-Yo Ma. Can the music BE any better?
> 
> I found this FF3 + G5 a good pairing. The G5 is just clean clean clean, without emphasising treble to "sharpen" the sound like some other dongles. So it brings out the best quality of FF3 and taming the lower-midrange just a touch. The pitch black background of G5 also helps to make the soundstage depth illusion of FF3 pop.


And it doesn't hurt that your setup looks incredible also.





Spoiler: @JAnonymous5150






JAnonymous5150 said:


> We'll have to strategize on how to convert him to the DIY Darkside. Between the Blue Voodoo 600s, the Blur 266 MX150s, the Hifiman HE400is, and the AKG K702s I'm starting to feel like you and I must hear things pretty much the same way. It's crazy and super cool at the same time! 😎🤘


Oh, don't take me wrong, I am/have been very interested in learning all about DIY. I just have had not much desire to do it using my own hands. Plus, the fact that I think I have reached end game for buds helps with this decision. Other than the upcoming FF5, I am not actually too interested in upgrading any time soon. 

Plus, @FranQL has spoiled me with not just one, but two sets of DIY buds that (I don't believe) can't be matched. On the other hand, at some point I will probably endeavor to make a set for myself (probably the famous 600s).





Spoiler: @dsonance






dsonance said:


> The FF3 will forever have my gratitude for opening my eyes (ears?) to the earbuds phenomenon, and pulling me out of the futile search for a perfect IEM. They completely upturned everything I thought I knew about earbuds. I returned all the IEMs I was considering at the time, and have no desire to look back whatsoever.


And you happened to pick the perfect one to begin your journey with. You have managed to skip having to try 20 pairs before getting the right ones... LOL


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> Spoiler: @JAnonymous5150
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You are some kind of secret agent, aren't you   

Didn't know that @JAnonymous5150 was on a tour. Now, let's see if we can search for a band from SoCal who toured recently ...  (We are going to get the guy banned from Internet by his company, aren't we)


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> You are some kind of secret agent, aren't you
> 
> Didn't know that @JAnonymous5150 was on a tour. Now, let's see if we can search for a band from SoCal who toured recently ...  (We are going to get the guy banned from Internet by his company, aren't we)


LOL Not secret at all, just have to have that type of clearance to work on some of these military bases, and federal buildings, etc... 

Well, I don't know if he actually was or not. I simply remember when last we spoke on this thread that he was going on tour at some point, and I hadn't seen him post for a time (maybe it was the audit thing thinking more on it).


----------



## Ronion

barato said:


> I had fairly short time with my LCP 300s in plain MX500 shell before driver got damaged
> 
> Like everyone says there is something pretty special about them, the sound had a very sweet quality.
> They were lacking some sparkle, but this was to be expected... and better a lack of sparkle than forced, harsh treble
> ...


I think a tuning foam loosened up on that graph because I have a second pair that didn’t do this at aLL…. I am really not sure.  It’s never happened before or since, but they sound did change just like the graph did.  you would think if something loosened, it would only do it in one bud.  I tuned it dramatically different the 5th time around and got it nailed the best I think I can with my current level of understanding.  Graphs are way under appreciated by the subjective crowd (and overemphasized by the objective).  It’s in this mess of bud graphs and its tonal balance precisely matches its graph.  Subjectively, there are some serious differences in this group.  I’d put that driver in the top 5, but just barely in this mess.  Ultimately you can always hear the peak you quoted, but it’s now masked by neighboring frequencies and damped by foam(s) and such.  It’s audibility is 95% eliminated, but it’s what keeps this from being in the top 4.


----------



## Ronion (Nov 17, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> You are some kind of secret agent, aren't you
> 
> Didn't know that @JAnonymous5150 was on a tour. Now, let's see if we can search for a band from SoCal who toured recently ...  (We are going to get the guy banned from Internet by his company, aren't we)


I looked it up.  The only thing I could find was the BeeGees…. Apparently their new drummer sings falsetto.  Just saying


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Spoiler: @JAnonymous5150
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Because of some recording, scheduling conflicts, delays, and such we pushed the tour to a late December start. Thankfully we did it before any tickets went on sale for the early dates so it worked out without any refunds and disappointed fans. It added a good month and a half of recording time to work on our album which is sounding ****in' sick if I do say so myself. 

The beginning of the tour is almost all supporting dates which gave us some flexibility because we thought we might end up needing more studio time to get the album where we wanted it. I'm glad we built that felxibility into the schedule because this album is too important and full of material that's far too good to put a half-assed effort together. 

Tomorrow we have a meeting where I should be finding out what the final tour schedule looks like and I also hopefully get to pick up the new drum set I'll be using on tour from the manufacturer I signed with earlier this year. This will be the first custom kit they've built for me. Though I used one of their "custom shop" level kits for a few months on the shortened tour we just finished this summer and I was actually pretty impressed with how well it did for me with just a few tweaks that I did myself before we left.

I love pre-tour excitement!


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> I looked it up.  The only thing I could find was the BeeGees…. Just saying


I think you might be thrown from the scent here. I happen to know that he is in Molly Hatchet......


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Because of some recording, scheduling conflicts, delays, and such we pushed the tour to a late December start. Thankfully we did it before any tickets went on sale for the early dates so it worked out without any refunds and disappointed fans. It added a good month and a half of recording time to work on our album which is sounding ****in' sick if I do say so myself.
> 
> The beginning of the tour is almost all supporting dates which gave us some flexibility because we thought we might end up needing more studio time to get the album where we wanted it. I'm glad we built that felxibility into the schedule because this album is too important and full of material that's far too good to put a half-assed effort together.
> 
> ...


You are making this harder to not know.  I’d love to hear it (and see a show)!


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Because of some recording, scheduling conflicts, delays, and such we pushed the tour to a late December start. Thankfully we did it before any tickets went on sale for the early dates so it worked out without any refunds and disappointed fans. It added a good month and a half of recording time to work on our album which is sounding ****in' sick if I do say so myself.
> 
> The beginning of the tour is almost all supporting dates which gave us some flexibility because we thought we might end up needing more studio time to get the album where we wanted it. I'm glad we built that felxibility into the schedule because this album is too important and full of material that's far too good to put a half-assed effort together.
> 
> ...


Ah, well I hope it goes well for you either way. 

Are you going to get much time on your new set before you go on tour? That would suck to have to use them "brand new" while on tour...


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Because of some recording, scheduling conflicts, delays, and such we pushed the tour to a late December start. Thankfully we did it before any tickets went on sale for the early dates so it worked out without any refunds and disappointed fans. It added a good month and a half of recording time to work on our album which is sounding ****in' sick if I do say so myself.
> 
> The beginning of the tour is almost all supporting dates which gave us some flexibility because we thought we might end up needing more studio time to get the album where we wanted it. I'm glad we built that felxibility into the schedule because this album is too important and full of material that's far too good to put a half-assed effort together.
> 
> ...


Which IEM are you using for the tour? The custom A18t?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

To @Ronion : Dude, you promised you wouldn't tell after I convinced everyone you were joking last time! You're such a jerk! 😜

To @o0genesis0o : If you do think you figure out who I am at some point please don't post it here, send me a message about, or talk about your search success in public posts. I'd like to retain my ability to post here and use this as my cool place to come unwind and be me. That said, good luck! 😉


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> To @Ronion : Dude, you promised you wouldn't tell after I convinced everyone you were joking last time! You're such a jerk! 😜
> 
> To @o0genesis0o : If you do think you figure out who I am at some point please don't post it here, send me a message about, or talk about your search success in public posts. I'd like to retain my ability to post here and use this as my cool place to come unwind and be me. That said, good luck! 😉



Nah, just geeking about the IEM since you mentioned drum set. (I already know you are Bon Jovi look-alike, with big hair and all. At least in my imagination)


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Ah, well I hope it goes well for you either way.
> 
> Are you going to get much time on your new set before you go on tour? That would suck to have to use them "brand new" while on tour...



I'll be spending the next month breaking it in. They were supposed to have it to me in September, but there were some unavoidable problems obtaining some materials that pushed the build time further out. They offered to swap in some other stuff and get it to me on time, but I generally practice something like 4 to 8 hours 6 days a week in the lead up to a tour just to get locked in so I figured I could get enough hours on the kit to be comfortable.

It also helps that I used to make custom kits myself and do drum restoration so I have the skills and equipment to do any tweaks I need to myself rather than having to ship the set back and forth for revisions. I have visited their shop several times during the build to oversee the work and make sure everything was coming together right so I don't anticipate anything other than very minor stuff that comes with being a perfectionist and breaking in/getting used to a new set.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Nov 17, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Which IEM are you using for the tour? The custom A18t?



I don't know how I missed this at first. I'll be using the custom A18s on tour. Hands down the best live IEM I have ever heard or owned and by a pretty wide margin too. They just have uncanny ability to let me hear my performance almost as if it's totally separate from the rest of the band when I need to and then tune back into the whole mix at will. Picking out my work is effortless and that's a priceless quality in an live monitor IMO/IME.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> I think you might be thrown from the scent here. I happen to know that he is in Molly Hatchet......



I freakin' wish I was Shawn Beamer with my flowing locks flying everywhere behind some ridiculously huge 9 piece double bass monstrosity lol! 🤣 I don't have the level of cool it takes to pull that off.

On a side note, I actually met him once when I was visiting the cymbal manufacturer he endorsed at the time (Saluda). I didn't spend a bunch of time with him or anything, but he has a laugh so loud that you could hear it across the factory floor even with all the pneumatic hammers and everything going on. His laugh kept making me laugh and I kept having to reassure the rep who was showing me around that I wasn't laughing at him.


----------



## FranQL (Nov 17, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I freakin' wish I was Shawn Beamer with my flowing locks flying everywhere behind some ridiculously huge 9 piece double bass monstrosity lol! 🤣 I don't have the level of cool it takes to pull that off.
> 
> On a side note, I actually met him once when I was visiting the cymbal manufacturer he endorsed at the time (Saluda). I didn't spend a bunch of time with him or anything, but he has a laugh so loud that you could hear it across the factory floor even with all the pneumatic hammers and everything going on. His laugh kept making me laugh and I kept having to reassure the rep who was showing me around that I wasn't laughing at him.



Wish??? none of that, what will be at his level will be that hair in the wind, but I am sure that your genius will be of a much higher level...

I'm super ignorant when it comes to using monitors in studio or live, so I read carefully.

@samandhi  don't be in a hurry for 600 voodoo, with the amount of good things you have I assure you that you are not missing anything that should be a necessity for you, angels do not appear in the sky when listening to it or ancestral nymphs who want to rape you. I have to rebuild my unit and then when I can you can listen to it (along with @jeejack )


----------



## JAnonymous5150

FranQL said:


> Wish??? none of that, what will be at his level will be that hair in the wind, but I am sure that your genius will be of a much higher level...
> 
> I'm super ignorant when it comes to using monitors in studio or live, so I read carefully.
> 
> @samandhi  don't be in a hurry for 600 voodoo, with the amount of good things you have I assure you that you are not missing anything that should be a necessity for you, angels do not appear in the sky when listening to it or ancestral nymphs who want to rape you. I have to rebuild my unit and then when I can you can listen to it (along with @jeejack )



Don't let @FranQL lie to you bro, I can see the angels while the nymphs have their way with me while I listen to the Blue Voodoo 600s! 😜


----------



## silverszi (Nov 17, 2022)

So i got yinman 600s but they are bright
nearly equally to qian39s, i've already asked in riku's discord and am awaiting a response but from woody's description they should not sound like this, they are also stupidly easy to drive, nearly as much as qian39s at equal output

on this topic does anyone else have measurements of the yinman 600


----------



## silverszi

Ronion said:


> Oh, I wouldn't say first..... There have been tons of this evidence for decades.  First for me: Yes.  This is really just a small part of the actual differences and this is just with one bud.  It's tempting to try this with several buds/amps.  I wonder if the spread would remain very similar or if the different reactances wouldn't rear their heads a bit more prominently.
> 
> Check out the differences in some commercial buds however:
> 
> ...


What is this pink bud on commercial?


----------



## drewbadour

FranQL said:


> angels do not appear in the sky when listening to it or ancestral nymphs who want to rape you.


I have heard otherwise


----------



## Ronion

silverszi said:


> What is this pink bud on commercial?


Vido.


----------



## silverszi

Ronion said:


> Vido.


which colour and model (traceless/new or old)
that is no pinna gain at all, mine shows pinna on graphs


----------



## Gifting (Nov 17, 2022)

Ronion said:


> I don’t know, but I wouldn’t trust anything Tingo.  They changed the drivers on the TC200 before and on the TG38 more recently.  You just never know what you are going to get and it’s a shame because they’ve tend to start with very good drivers and then move to cheaper ones.


Well, that sucks. I cracked my TG38 open and measured its impedance. Around 45 ohms. The driver looks similar to the 40ohm KAPH on Rary's DIY Earbud's Guide. https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255801066557097.html?

I ordered mine and received them in May. Do you reckon they changed it by then? I don't know what the original drivers are supposed to look like....


----------



## JAnonymous5150

silverszi said:


> So i got yinman 600s but they are bright
> nearly equally to qian39s, i've already asked in riku's discord and am awaiting a response but from woody's description they should not sound like this, they are also stupidly easy to drive, nearly as much as qian39s at equal output
> 
> on this topic does anyone else have measurements of the yinman 600



There's something wrong here. I don't have measurements, but the Yinman 600s are not bright in any way and I have trouble believing anyone would describe them that way. Also, they are amongst the hardest buds to drive in existence. Are you sure you got the 600s? I don't think you did. They also make a 150ohm version of the Yinmans so maybe you got those. I have no idea how the Yinman 150s sound.

Basically if you got a bright, easy to drive earbud then you didn't get the 600s or they have made the most radical silent revision in the history of audio.

Edit: Can you post a pic of these buds?


----------



## drewbadour

JAnonymous5150 said:


> There's something wrong here. I don't have measurements, but the Yinman 600s are not bright in any way and I have trouble believing anyone would describe them that way. Also, they are amongst the hardest buds to drive in existence. Are you sure you got the 600s? I don't think you did. They also make a 150ohm version of the Yinmans so maybe you got those. I have no idea how the Yinman 150s sound.
> 
> Basically if you got a bright, easy to drive earbud then you didn't get the 600s or they have made the most radical silent revision in the history of audio.


Can't wait for you to get back on discord haha.
We're suspecting they gave Silver the model with the 32BG instead - something really shady going on.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

drewbadour said:


> Can't wait for you to get back on discord haha.
> We're suspecting they gave Silver the model with the 32BG instead - something really shady going on.



The meeting kicks off in an hour so hopefully it won't be too long before I'm back on.


----------



## silverszi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> There's something wrong here. I don't have measurements, but the Yinman 600s are not bright in any way and I have trouble believing anyone would describe them that way. Also, they are amongst the hardest buds to drive in existence. Are you sure you got the 600s? I don't think you did. They also make a 150ohm version of the Yinmans so maybe you got those. I have no idea how the Yinman 150s sound.
> 
> Basically if you got a bright, easy to drive earbud then you didn't get the 600s or they have made the most radical silent revision in the history of audio.
> 
> Edit: Can you post a pic of these buds?





im already disputing with the seller on aliexpress and ive talked to woody, riku, drew and darkmonkey about it, definitely not the 600 but i really didnt want to deal with having to send it back, it is painful


----------



## Ronion

silverszi said:


> So i got yinman 600s but they are bright
> nearly equally to qian39s, i've already asked in riku's discord and am awaiting a response but from woody's description they should not sound like this, they are also stupidly easy to drive, nearly as much as qian39s at equal output
> 
> on this topic does anyone else have measurements of the yinman 600


That’s very strange… The 600 will definitely get loud enough to listen to them off of 1V, but a whole other beast awakens with the Megatron.  I haven’t heard the Qian 39 described as bright either, but I’ll be the first to admit that I haven’t taken anything too seriously when it comes to those shells.  The pairs I’ve tried have NEEDED work.  Are you using them with foams? Without foam covers pretty much every bud is bright.


silverszi said:


> which colour and model (traceless/new or old)
> that is no pinna gain at all, mine shows pinna on graph


In my graphs the Foams are worn, but it does agree with their sound to me.  There is a pinna gain, it’s just small.  Mine are actually red X6 but they are the same as Vido.  I just didn’t want you to waste your money on X6’s when the Vido has the same tuning and driver.  I am acutely aware that different shell colors do sound and graph differently.  Still I’ve never heard that bud sound bright or even even V-shaped as your graph would suggest.  Even when they were brand new.  Mine were dark/dull when I got them.  They are worse now.  How are you making your graphs?  Do you have an ear and are you using foams?  What microphone?


Gifting said:


> Well, that sucks. I cracked my TG38 open and measured its impedance. Around 45 ohms. The driver looks similar to the 40ohm KAPH on Rary's DIY Earbud's Guide. https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255801066557097.html?
> 
> I ordered mine and received them in May. Do you reckon they changed it by then? I don't know what the original drivers are supposed to look like....


They changed them angain after those.  Your version is either the best or second best version and can sound quite good with a tuneup. The drivers are unfortunately fragile though compared to most drivers I’ve messed with.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

silverszi said:


> im already disputing with the seller on aliexpress and ive talked to woody, riku, drew and darkmonkey about it, definitely not the 600 but i really didnt want to deal with having to send it back, it is painful



It almost looks like they did it on purpose since the really dressed it up like the real thing. Hopefully they do what's right and give you your money back or send you the correct version. Returns/RMAs to China always suck because they can take so long, but if it's any consolation the postal and courier services over there have gotten much more reliable so it's not nearly the same high-risk gamble it was back in the day. Sorry you have to deal with that.

If you don't mind, keep me/us updated on what they say and how they handle your situation. It's always good to know what kinds of businesses and people we're dealing with.


----------



## Gifting (Nov 17, 2022)

Ronion said:


> They changed them angain after those. Your version is either the best or second best version and can sound quite good with a tuneup. The drivers are unfortunately fragile though compared to most drivers I’ve messed with.


So there's been at least two revisions? Wow. I think I have the second best version then; I found a forum from 2019 stating they have 16 ohms resistance (mine was 45). I also went to https://thecatlistens.wordpress.com/ and they discuss the TG38s very briefly and show a picture of the drivers? Unfortunately, I can't view it on my end.





Wish I knew about them sooner. The soundstage sounds pretty good......can only imagine what they would sound like if it was more resolving. Oh well.

Edit: Thankfully I found the picture of the original TG38s drivers thanks to @captione . I have the inferior version.

I'm trying to find that OG speaker on Aliexpress and do a DIY with it....


----------



## dsonance

]


samandhi said:


> And you happened to pick the perfect one to begin your journey with. You have managed to skip having to try 20 pairs before getting the right ones... LOL


I think, that's exactly what did it. If the FF3 wasn't so impressive in so many ways - from handling the bass, to timbre, to soundstage, resolution and the "grand personality" overall - it wouldn't have been such a decisive blow to my preconceptions. 

It also helped that they were not difficult to drive - I would never have invested in a desktop amp, for example, just to see how good some earbuds could be. Of course, once I was hooked, I had to do just that for the Yinman, and TGXEAR sets


----------



## o0genesis0o

dsonance said:


> I would never have invested in a desktop amp, for example, just to see how good some earbuds could be.



Hidizs S9 Pro + a 4.4mm to 2.5mm adapter from ddHifi could get you nearly all the way there in terms of DAC/AMP, without too much money. I A/B tested this dongle, single-ended output with HD800S and it held up decently next to the desktop stack (not the same level of performance, but close). Of course, if you are willing, the Topping G5 is also a good investment for your audio enjoyment. With 1W per channel and no hiss, that thing drives anything from Andromeda to HD800S (perhaps not Susvara or DCA Stealth, though). I'm still considering the desktop amp, because if you don't pick well, you do not have a lot of improvement. For example, Fiio K3 is not much better than the dongle KA3.


----------



## dsonance

Ronion said:


> Are you using them with foams? Without foam covers pretty much every bud is bright.


Actually, a "genuine" Yinman 600 doesn't really sound bright without foam covers, in my experience. I'm using it with donuts, but just for comfort - I'd be fine, sound-wise, using it as is, with no covers. For comparison - I'm using the Fiio balanced foams on the FF3.


----------



## dsonance

o0genesis0o said:


> Hidizs S9 Pro + a 4.4mm to 2.5mm adapter from ddHifi could get you nearly all the way there in terms of DAC/AMP, without too much money. I A/B tested this dongle, single-ended output with HD800S and it held up decently next to the desktop stack (not the same level of performance, but close). Of course, if you are willing, the Topping G5 is also a good investment for your audio enjoyment. With 1W per channel and no hiss, that thing drives anything from Andromeda to HD800S (perhaps not Susvara or DCA Stealth, though). I'm still considering the desktop amp, because if you don't pick well, you do not have a lot of improvement. For example, Fiio K3 is not much better than the dongle KA3.


As can be found earlier in this thread, I spent some time proving to myself that my BTR7 wasn't quite enough to drive the Yinman. It certainly wasn't immediately apparent. Not sure if the S9 Pro would've fared better. The G5 surely would - but it ain't cheap, and I found a very decent desktop amp for much less.


----------



## o0genesis0o

dsonance said:


> As can be found earlier in this thread, I spent some time proving to myself that my BTR7 wasn't quite enough to drive the Yinman. It certainly wasn't immediately apparent. Not sure if the S9 Pro would've fared better. The G5 surely would - but it ain't cheap, and I found a very decent desktop amp for much less.



Oh, the BTR7 guy was you?    If the BTR7 does not drive to a satisfying level to you, the forget the S9 Pro.


----------



## Ronion (Nov 17, 2022)

Gifting said:


> So there's been at least two revisions? Wow. I think I have the second best version then; I found a forum from 2019 stating they have 16 ohms resistance (mine was 45). I also went to https://thecatlistens.wordpress.com/ and they discuss the TG38s very briefly and show a picture of the drivers? Unfortunately, I can't view it on my end.
> 
> Wish I knew about them sooner. The soundstage sounds pretty good......can only imagine what they would sound like if it was more resolving. Oh well.
> 
> Edit: Thankfully I found the picture of the original TG38s drivers thanks to @captione . I have the inferior version.


Those drivers are still highly prized and capable.  I’d tune them and turn them into something special in a low impedance package.  Those are the only ones I’ve heard and I’m sure they are the best low impedance non-FiiO driver I’ve personally listened to.  I’ve never been acquainted with the original though and there are lots of low impedance drivers I’ve long ignored due to my enjoyment of better separation, composure and soundstage.


dsonance said:


> Actually, a "genuine" Yinman 600 doesn't really sound bright without foam covers, in my experience. I'm using it with donuts, but just for comfort - I'd be fine, sound-wise, using it as is, with no covers. For comparison - I'm using the Fiio balanced foams on the FF3.


Every ROT has an exception LOL.  I have read that before with this bud in particular, but this is the only one and I’ve personally never heard it or heard a bud that matches its description or the original graphs in question for that matter.  Both you and Woody have enough experience with this stuff to know though, but I’d bet it sounds darker and warmer with foams on and I’m unsure of the original posters experience and expectations.  @silverszi may have also had different expectations based his experience and the descriptions of others...  IDK, but I do know that the bud should abide by the laws of physics and it would be the first place I would go if I was Silverszi and had not tried such a thing (and a dense/thick foam at that based on what he’s hearing).  Nonetheless the graphs in the original post if graphed in any normal rig would be V-Shaped at the very least and would sound atrocious if they graphed like that in my rig.  So I’m working on narrowing this down with Silverszi.  i Just need to get an idea on how he’s making these graphs.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio (Nov 19, 2022)

The RIOBuds updated ! 
My ipressions and some instructions + shell .stl link + Link on gdrive

Changes v3:
1) Improving print quality by adjusting wall thickness;
2) improved accuracy in shell dimensions;
3) Better sealing and acoustic properties.



Spoiler













































BE/graphene driver + my shell => end game in earbuds IMHO


----------



## Ronion

Mr.HiAudio said:


> The RIOBuds updated !
> My ipressions and some instructions + shell .stl link
> 
> Changes v3:
> ...


gorgeous!  Well done 👍


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Mr.HiAudio said:


> The RIOBuds updated !
> My ipressions and some instructions + shell .stl link
> 
> Changes v3:
> ...



So are the three openings at the top just standard ports/vents or have you designed some special feature into them. I'm not at home on my computer so I can't really explore everything in your links properly at the moment.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

JAnonymous5150 said:


> special feature


Yes, this is a kind of bass that affects the bass and lower mids. It would seem 3 holes, but the influence is very large.
The main benefit of these shell - sound balance, because the left side of the earbuds in the sound is very so-so, I managed to fix it.

In short, then:
1) improving the depth and elaboration of the bass, increasing its quantity without loss in quality;
2) an increase in density and mass in the lower middle - the vocal has become more solid and massive;
3) due to the volume, it seems that the stage is now being built more.
After my earbuds shell, the other earbuds(mx500 for example) feel rather narrow and lean with the same driver, imho.

And also improved the comfort of landing, for example, the MX500 case sits so-so for me.

In principle, everyone can repeat my project, so I specifically posted it in the public domain 
(sorry for my english)


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Mr.HiAudio said:


> Yes, this is a kind of bass that affects the bass and lower mids. It would seem 3 holes, but the influence is very large.
> The main benefit of these shell - sound balance, because the left side of the earbuds in the sound is very so-so, I managed to fix it.
> 
> In short, then:
> ...



Awesome! Sounds like something I'm gonna need to try for myself. Luckily I have a buddy who can 3d print anything I need so when I get home I'll take a closer look and see about using these shells for a DIY build of my own. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## o0genesis0o

Mr.HiAudio said:


> Yes, this is a kind of bass that affects the bass and lower mids. It would seem 3 holes, but the influence is very large.
> The main benefit of these shell - sound balance, because the left side of the earbuds in the sound is very so-so, I managed to fix it.
> 
> In short, then:
> ...


You can / should put this in a GitHub repository and put an open source license on it. It unlikely to stop any malicious party, but at least you can put the stake that this is your invention and you make it open source, and anyone who use or modify it must also keep it open source.


----------



## samandhi

silverszi said:


> So i got yinman 600s but they are bright
> nearly equally to qian39s, i've already asked in riku's discord and am awaiting a response but from woody's description they should not sound like this, they are also stupidly easy to drive, nearly as much as qian39s at equal output
> 
> on this topic does anyone else have measurements of the yinman 600


I wonder if you got the wrong driver in them also. But, I also wonder, are you driving them properly? What you are describing can happen if a set of head gear is under damped. The thing (that I have found) about the Yinmans is that they are ridiculously easy to drive to a decent volume (for the impedance and efficiency that they are) but are notoriously difficult to drive to their proper "potential". If under damped, you might hear them as bright, hollow, loose and lack of bass quantity/quality, etc... It also looks like you are driving them via 3.5mm SE which if used in (most) portable devices will almost ensure they are NOT being driven properly (if they are in fact the proper 600ohm driver as advertised). If you don't mind me asking, what are you driving them with (your source)?

The Yinman 600 2.0 (if anything) need a bit more brightness to the signature. At least, AFAIK this is the general consensus among those of us that have discussed and compared notes on this set; very warm (not to the point of being veiled though), but also clarity levels are good. 

Also, are you getting a good fitment? You could try and hold them in your ears and see how much (if any) it changes the sound. If it were me I would send them back regardless and get a set that has either 2.5mm or 4.4mm balanced connector. This way you can connect to either balanced OR SE to compare (assuming you have a way to utilize a balanced connection). 

Though I have no way of knowing (not having a measurement rig), I would be interested in learning how you are measuring these also. This set is decidedly more mid forwards than "V" (except in the pina gain region, which is not boosted at all, though its presence IS there). 

Though it COULD be that they put the wrong driver in it. They have more than just the 600ohm driver:


Spoiler: From @ WoodyLuvr's earbud timeline



2016

Yinman 音曼 150; 150Ω (no wooden stem; fixed cable)
Yinman 音曼 500; 500Ω (no wooden stem; fixed cable)
Yinman 音曼 600; 640Ω (no wooden stem; fixed cable; impedance was higher than the listed 600Ω)
Yinman 音曼 2.0 醇净 150; 150Ω (no wooden stem; fixed cable)
Yinman 音曼 2.0 醇净 500; 500Ω (no wooden stem; fixed cable)
Yinman 音曼 2.0 醇净 600; 600Ω (no wooden stem; mmcx)

2017

Yinman 音曼 64; 64Ω (MX500 shell type; fixed cable)



And of course, the 2022 version in question with the wooden stem and fixed cable.

Having said all of that, I am very sorry that your experience has been poor thus far (especially after hearing a lot of us talking them up so much). I hope you get it squared away because they truly are great earbuds (IMHO).


----------



## jeejack

Mr.HiAudio said:


> The RIOBuds updated !
> My ipressions and some instructions + shell .stl link
> 
> Changes v3:
> ...


How are 400 ohm drivers?


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

jeejack said:


> How are 400 ohm drivers?


Graphene? - wonderful 

LCP very bad - rumbles, the sound turns into wild horror


----------



## digititus

Mr.HiAudio said:


> The RIOBuds updated !
> My ipressions and some instructions + shell .stl link
> 
> Changes v3:
> ...


Красота!


----------



## Mick McMack (Nov 18, 2022)

Hi fellas and ladies, it's nice to make your acquaintance. I currently own a pair of Sony WFC500 wireless earbuds, whilst I think they are decent, there would be considerable improvements if I spent a bit more. I've been playing guitar for 40 years and I love listening to and playing from the blues up to 80s heavy rock /metal.Wall flattening bass isn't something I'm particularly hung up on, for me it's about accurate midrange and present top end without ear fatigue. I had been looking at the Sony WF1000XM4 earbuds, but they are really bulky and I have comfort concerns about them. The Jabra 85T gets plenty of good comments, but I am still unsure. I have 0% interest in current music and given my tastes, I would be grateful for recommendations


----------



## drewbadour (Nov 18, 2022)

Mick McMack said:


> Hi fellas and ladies, it's nice to make your acquaintance. I currently own a pair of Sony WFC500 wireless earbuds, whilst I think they are decent, there would be considerable improvements if I spent a bit more. I've been playing guitar for 40 years and I love listening to and playing from the blues up to 80s heavy rock /metal.Wall flattening bass isn't something I'm particularly hung up on, for me it's about accurate midrange and present top end without ear fatigue. I had been looking at the Sony WF1000XM4 earbuds, but they are really bulky and I have comfort concerns about them. The Jabra 85T gets plenty of good comments, but I am still unsure. I have 0% interest in current music and given my tastes, I would be grateful for recommendations


Hi friend! Sorry to say but you might be in the wrong place for reccs on TWS - we're flathead earbud afficionados here and might not have much experience with wireless buds. Someone here might be able to help but you'll get more helpful responses here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/going-fully-wireless-iems-too-soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/


----------



## Mick McMack

Will do.......thank you


----------



## sunsun89

Mr.HiAudio said:


> The RIOBuds updated !
> My ipressions and some instructions + shell .stl link
> 
> Changes v3:
> ...


can you share download link for .stl in this forum?
i already open your link, but cant download .stl from that forum..
thanks b4


----------



## Ronion

Mick McMack said:


> Will do.......thank you


But if you are looking for high Fidelity, you may want to stick around here . (Kidding/not kidding)


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> But if you are looking for high Fidelity, you may want to stick around here . (Kidding/not kidding)


+1 (not kidding)  TWS can't touch (yet) some of the buds that I have had the pleasure of putting in my ears IMO.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> +1 (not kidding)  TWS can't touch (yet) some of the buds that I have had the pleasure of putting in my ears IMO.


I’m on my lunch break just gobsmacked and slack-jawed by the 300LCP right now listening to Billie Strings.  It’s insane how this slightly U shaped tuning with drivers of this level of technical ability can attack you in such an enjoyable way—even off of a 1V Apple dongle.  I need to build a balanced set so that I can feed them some power on my breaks.   Hard to even believe you can have such a thing for under $20. If it weren’t for the fact that I own 4 buds that I enjoy more than this, I’d think this was as good as it gets.  It’s better than I ever heard 5 months ago.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> I’m on my lunch break just gobsmacked and slack-jawed by the 300LCP right now listening to Billie Strings.  It’s insane how this slightly U shaped tuning with drivers of this level of technical ability can attack you in such an enjoyable way—even off of a 1V Apple dongle.  I need to build a balanced set so that I can feed them some power on my breaks.   Hard to even believe you can have such a thing for under $20. If it weren’t for the fact that I own 4 buds that I enjoy more than this, I’d think this was as good as it gets.  It’s better than I ever heard 5 months ago.


You need to upgrade that Apple dongle, mate   My 300 LCP has just departed China. Hopefully they will be here soon enough.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> You need to upgrade that Apple dongle, mate   My 300 LCP has just departed China. Hopefully they will be here soon enough.


I have a couple, but they are unwieldy.  I could use the Qudelix, but with Apple, wireless is a downgrade, and my S8 is only a marginal improvement over the dongle and requires stacking adapters which occasionally get dislodged.  My Megatron doesn’t run off of my iPhone or my iPad, but it supposedly will if I buy the right adapters.   My best sound solution at the moment is the A5 or B4X running off the dongle, but it’s also a mess of of cables and adapters at that point.  I also have one of the “not by VE” dongles, but it’s a downgrade to the Apple dongle.  Really, the Qudelix is my best answer, it just bothers me to lose the resolution.


----------



## tendou

Ronion said:


> I have a couple, but they are unwieldy.  I could use the Qudelix, but with Apple, wireless is a downgrade, and my S8 is only a marginal improvement over the dongle and requires stacking adapters which occasionally get dislodged.  My Megatron doesn’t run off of my iPhone or my iPad, but it supposedly will if I buy the right adapters.   My best sound solution at the moment is the A5 or B4X running off the dongle, but it’s also a mess of of cables and adapters at that point.  I also have one of the “not by VE” dongles, but it’s a downgrade to the Apple dongle.  Really, the Qudelix is my best answer, it just bothers me to lose the resolution.


It's it avani or abigail?


----------



## Ronion

Abigail


----------



## sofastreamer

o0genesis0o said:


> Hidizs S9 Pro + a 4.4mm to 2.5mm adapter from ddHifi could get you nearly all the way there in terms of DAC/AMP, without too much money. I A/B tested this dongle, single-ended output with HD800S and it held up decently next to the desktop stack (not the same level of performance, but close). Of course, if you are willing, the Topping G5 is also a good investment for your audio enjoyment. With 1W per channel and no hiss, that thing drives anything from Andromeda to HD800S (perhaps not Susvara or DCA Stealth, though). I'm still considering the desktop amp, because if you don't pick well, you do not have a lot of improvement. For example, Fiio K3 is not much better than the dongle KA3.


the website says, that the s9 pro has 0,1 watt per channel @32ohm, which is pretty average for a dongle. but maybe i calculatet wrong. my maths skills are really bad


----------



## o0genesis0o

sofastreamer said:


> the website says, that the s9 pro has 0,1 watt per channel @32ohm, which is pretty average for a dongle. but maybe i calculatet wrong. my maths skills are really bad



no, you are right. 100mW single ended, 200mW balanced. However, in practice, its volume level is always higher than my KA3 and it does drive HD800S very close to the Magni + Modi stack in A/B with bass heavy tracks. This dongle drains your phone fast though.


----------



## diracas

Hey all, I'm looking for a pair of earbuds in the sub 200 dollars range. I have some sensitivity to tremble and I prefer neutral/warmer sounds. I listen to a lot of hardcore punk, crust, post metal, black metal. Any suggestions?  Preferably for buds that can be delivered in the EU.


----------



## ttorbic

diracas said:


> Hey all, I'm looking for a pair of earbuds in the sub 200 dollars range. I have some sensitivity to tremble and I prefer neutral/warmer sounds. I listen to a lot of hardcore punk, crust, post metal, black metal. Any suggestions?  Preferably for buds that can be delivered in the EU.


RikuBuds! Contact @RikudouGoku and he'll sort you out. He's based in Europe and has nice warm sets


----------



## diracas

ttorbic said:


> RikuBuds! Contact @RikudouGoku and he'll sort you out. He's based in Europe and has nice warm sets


thanks a lot for the suggestion. The Grand Rider 2 description seems exactly what I need. I will contact @RikudouGoku for sure


----------



## digititus

ttorbic said:


> RikuBuds! Contact @RikudouGoku and he'll sort you out. He's based in Europe and has nice warm sets


Support your local dealer!


----------



## Mr.HiAudio (Nov 19, 2022)

sunsun89 said:


> can you share download link for .stl in this forum?
> i already open your link, but cant download .stl from that forum..
> thanks b4


sorry, yes, it's strange that the link does not open there, probably because of the translator. here is the link: https://cloud.mail.ru/public/oEGE/9U4dbCaNp

And: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Tb78hZSSC0RkQ9ynjndX19WeV1MK7g2U?usp=sharing (if you have a problems with mail.cloud)
(Also add link in original post)


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Nov 19, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I have a pair of buds coming in with an order today that have the Qigom 300 driver in them. Anybody have any experience with this driver? I got them on AliExpress (CKLewis Audio Store) and figured if the buds arent good, I'd harvest the driver because I thought I remembered heatding good things about the S300 which these appear to be a version or copy of according to the ad. I'm just curious, but I guess we'll see pretty soon.



Based on the things folks were saying when I asked about these Qigom S300 "Black Lotus" earbuds I was expecting to not like them much at all, but these are a pretty solid pair of buds. I got my pair for like $13 or $14 (I forget which) and for that money I think they're worth a purchase for anyone looking for an inoffensively tuned bud with some punch in the bass department, a decent level of detail retrieval, and a pretty big soundstage.

For a few bucks more you can get the 80ohm LCP buds from NSC Audio that are better, but these S300s are a good option as well.


----------



## Gifting

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Based on the things folks were saying when I asked about these Qigom S300 "Black Lotus" earbuds I was expecting to not like them much at all, but these are a pretty solid pair of buds. I got my pair for like $13 or $14 (I forget which) and for that money I think they're worth a purchase for anyone looking for an inoffensively tuned bud with some punch in the bass department, a decent level of detail retrieval, and a pretty big soundstage.
> 
> For a few bucks more you can get the 80ohm LCP buds from NSC Audio that are better, but these S300s are a good option as well.


Funny that you say that. Just received the Black Lotus in the mail today, along with the FF3 and a DIY Titanium earbud. I concur, the bass is nice and and its non-fatiguing. Got them for 14 bucks during the 11.11 sale. I'm glad I got them.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Gifting said:


> Funny that you say that. Just received the Black Lotus in the mail today, along with the FF3 and a DIY Titanium earbud. I concur, the bass is nice and and its non-fatiguing. Got them for 14 bucks during the 11.11 sale. I'm glad I got them.



Damn! You know what that looks like? That looks like a great day! The FF3s are ridiculously good and they have a presentation that I haven't heard matched by any other buds. I think part of the reason some folks might be judging the Black Lotus harshly is because they are assuming it's the same as the White Lotus. The Blacl version is actually the "balanced" version so it doesn't share the supposedly overly warm with bloated bass profile of the White version. I think they're an easy pick for the money for sure.


----------



## Ronion (Nov 19, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Based on the things folks were saying when I asked about these Qigom S300 "Black Lotus" earbuds I was expecting to not like them much at all, but these are a pretty solid pair of buds. I got my pair for like $13 or $14 (I forget which) and for that money I think they're worth a purchase for anyone looking for an inoffensively tuned bud with some punch in the bass department, a decent level of detail retrieval, and a pretty big soundstage.
> 
> For a few bucks more you can get the 80ohm LCP buds from NSC Audio that are better, but these S300s are a good option as well.


Those drivers are not bad at all.  Just my least favorite 300Ohm drivers--though I've learned a lot about tuning drivers from it, and I still need to perfect it before I really judge it.  Perhaps I should do that tonight...  How do you like them compared to the 150Ohm options like the Rosemary or the HE150pro?  I don't recall what other cheap(ish) 150 Ohm buds you have, but I would be curious as to what you hear regarding resolution, soundstage and composure.

Oh, a little off topic, but have you found any other USD-C cables that work with the Megatron?  I have 3 others, none of them work.


----------



## Gifting (Nov 19, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Damn! You know what that looks like? That looks like a great day! The FF3s are ridiculously good and they have a presentation that I haven't heard matched by any other buds. I think part of the reason some folks might be judging the Black Lotus harshly is because they are assuming it's the same as the White Lotus. The Blacl version is actually the "balanced" version so it doesn't share the supposedly overly warm with bloated bass profile of the White version. I think they're an easy pick for the money for sure.


With the Black Lotus, I found myself smiling while listening to Inside and Out  by Feist.  It had a lot of bass (mid-bass maybe?). Then I put on the FF3's. Even more bass! More than any earbud I've tried. I haven't put on the bass foams yet, only tried the balanced foams. I'm quite satisfied with them, they're like headphones!

To be fair, the song does accentuate the bass regions quite nicely, even on bass light earbuds. Maybe I should have picked another song to compare to.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Gifting said:


> With the Black Lotus, I found myself smiling while listening to Inside and Out  by Feist.  It had a lot of bass (mid-bass maybe?). Then I put on the FF3's. Even more bass! More than any earbud I've tried. I haven't put on the bass foams yet, only tried the balanced foams. I'm quite satisfied with them, they're like headphones!
> 
> To be fair, the song does accentuate the bass regions quite nicely, even on bass light earbuds. Maybe I should have picked another song to compare to.



FF3 does an excellent job with cello, orchestral bass, and orchestra in general as well. You can try the opening song of Skyrim (search for Dragonborn if you are not familiar). I’m listening to a piece called “A way of life” by Hans Zimmer with FF3. Also beautiful and atmospheric due to the bass response.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> Those drivers are not bad at all.  Just my least favorite 300Ohm drivers--though I've learned a lot about tuning drivers from it, and I still need to perfect it before I really judge it.  Perhaps I should do that tonight...  How do you like them compared to the 150Ohm options like the Rosemary or the HE150pro?  I don't recall what other cheap(ish) 150 Ohm buds you have, but I would be curious as to what you hear regarding resolution, soundstage and composure.
> 
> Oh, a little off topic, but have you found any other USD-C cables that work with the Megatron?  I have 3 others, none of them work.



Yeah, all of the Qualcomm quick charge compatible cables I have work just fine. Basically anything that's PD bridge charging compliant will work as long as your device also supports PD charging or some version of it (Qualcomms quick charge is just a fancy name for the PD variant that my Moto One 5g Ace uses). I am looking for a nice aftermarket cable with separate data and power and ferrite chokes that works, but I just haven't had much time to actually look.

I think the Rosemarys and Black Lotus S300 are rough equivalents and would just come down to subjective taste to decide between them. I personally think the HE 150Pros are a smidge above both in technical performance/proficiency. All three get smoked by the NSC Audio 80ohm LCPs in the copper shells.


----------



## syazwaned

o0genesis0o said:


> FF3 does an excellent job with cello, orchestral bass, and orchestra in general as well. You can try the opening song of Skyrim (search for Dragonborn if you are not familiar). I’m listening to a piece called “A way of life” by Hans Zimmer with FF3. Also beautiful and atmospheric due to the bass response.


Huh, I been looking for a orchestral set earbuds, especially for Skyrim theme song, FF3 might be it. Though I'll wait for FF5


----------



## syazwaned

o0genesis0o said:


> FF3 does an excellent job with cello, orchestral bass, and orchestra in general as well. You can try the opening song of Skyrim (search for Dragonborn if you are not familiar). I’m listening to a piece called “A way of life” by Hans Zimmer with FF3. Also beautiful and atmospheric due to the bass response.


have you try any tgxear stuff?


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Yeah, all of the Qualcomm quick charge compatible cables I have work just fine. Basically anything that's PD bridge charging compliant will work as long as your device also supports PD charging or some version of it (Qualcomms quick charge is just a fancy name for the PD variant that my Moto One 5g Ace uses). I am looking for a nice aftermarket cable with separate data and power and ferrite chokes that works, but I just haven't had much time to actually look.
> 
> I think the Rosemarys and Black Lotus S300 are rough equivalents and would just come down to subjective taste to decide between them. I personally think the HE 150Pros are a smidge above both in technical performance/proficiency. All three get smoked by the NSC Audio 80ohm LCPs in the copper shells.


We hear alike (at least when it comes to the drivers)!

Yeah, the one I just bought is PD bridge charging compliant, but "no go".  Perhaps I got a bum cable.  Thanks Bro.


----------



## o0genesis0o

syazwaned said:


> have you try any tgxear stuff?


Serratus should arrive tomorrow  I have very high expectation for that set.

It’s a good idea to wait and see how FF5 turn out. It should be available soon. I mean, December is here, and last time they told me FF5 launch is scheduled for December.


----------



## assassin10000

o0genesis0o said:


> Serratus should arrive tomorrow  I have very high expectation for that set.
> 
> It’s a good idea to wait and see how FF5 turn out. It should be available soon. I mean, December is here, and last time they told me FF5 launch is scheduled for December.


I'm hoping/waiting for a utws7 that has wireless charging. I want to use my MMCX earbuds as TWS, with more power than my older adapters have.

I gave the utws5 a miss, because it had no wireless charging.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

P.S. For anyone who cares, the TRN EMX are so light that they are nearly impossible to get a solid fit with worn over ear as intended. From what I am able to hear, it doesn't sound like I'm missing much anyways, but I figured someone out there maybe contemplating their purchase.

Time to crack these MFers open to harvest those drivers...


----------



## drewbadour

assassin10000 said:


> I'm hoping/waiting for a utws7 that has wireless charging. I want to use my MMCX earbuds as TWS, with more power than my older adapters have.
> 
> I gave the utws5 a miss, because it had no wireless charging.


UTWS5 does have wireless charging though! I'm charging mine right now!


----------



## assassin10000

drewbadour said:


> UTWS5 does have wireless charging though! I'm charging mine right now!


Damn. Totally missed that and the 11.11 sale lol.

Well, next sale will be soon enough.


----------



## o0genesis0o

assassin10000 said:


> I'm hoping/waiting for a utws7 that has wireless charging. I want to use my MMCX earbuds as TWS, with more power than my older adapters have.
> 
> I gave the utws5 a miss, because it had no wireless charging.


People use wireless charging? I thought it’s a fad


----------



## drewbadour (Nov 20, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> People use wireless charging? I thought it’s a fad


It's super convenient in the car for example! Just pop my phone on it and by the time I get to the destination Im all charged up!

Also, it's nice to have a wireless charger on my desk, frees up a cable for my other devices. Utws5 can go right on it if my phone or dacamp is taking up the limited usbc slots I have.

And in my experience, usbc slots tend to get loose and temperamental after a year of frequent use. Wireless charging prevents this!


----------



## Gifting

assassin10000 said:


> I'm hoping/waiting for a utws7 that has wireless charging. I want to use my MMCX earbuds as TWS, with more power than my older adapters have.
> 
> I gave the utws5 a miss, because it had no wireless charging.


I have a TRN BT20 mmxc adapter on the way. 15$. I'd be pleasantly surprised if it can drive higher impedance earbuds, which I doubt.


----------



## baskingshark

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Damn! You know what that looks like? That looks like a great day! The FF3s are ridiculously good and they have a presentation that I haven't heard matched by any other buds. I think part of the reason some folks might be judging the Black Lotus harshly is because they are assuming it's the same as the White Lotus. The Blacl version is actually the "balanced" version so it doesn't share the supposedly overly warm with bloated bass profile of the White version. I think they're an easy pick for the money for sure.



Damn I should have read your advise before I bought a white lotus 300 on 11/11.

It just came in yesterday. U are right, the white lotus bass is bloated and a muddy mess, even with amplification. I took off the full foams and used donut foams and the bass is a bit less nebulous.

I bought it at $9 usd so I guess nothing to complain much about. It is quite non fatiguing but technically it is bang average. Gonna sell it off whoopee.

I stupidly went against my own advise against buying more budget side grade pokemons haha, was hoping to somehow uncover some hidden gem among the thrash!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

baskingshark said:


> Damn I should have read your advise before I bought a white lotus 300 on 11/11.
> 
> It just came in yesterday. U are right, the white lotus bass is bloated and a muddy mess, even with amplification. I took off the full foams and used donut foams and the bass is a bit less nebulous.
> 
> ...



Sorry it didn't work out for you. I've pretty only grab the budget stuff when I need to add a small amount to a total to save more from discounts/coupons or on the rare occasion that someone I trust recommends a pair they purchased. If you're curious, the Black Lotus are nothing like the white are said to be. They are actually quite a pleasant listen.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Oh, a little off topic, but have you found any other USD-C cables that work with the Megatron? I have 3 others, none of them work.


While this might not be of help to your current cause, I might also suggest staying clear of any Samsung branded cable. While they use a fast-charging protocol, it is not compatible with QC or PD normally (which are indeed also different from each other). The best bet if you want a charging cable to be useable for everything is to buy one branded as being compatible with both. It IS possible to have a cable that is compatible with one, but not the other (since they are different protocols and seem to be separating more as the tech gets faster/better).


----------



## FranQL (Nov 20, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Sorry it didn't work out for you. I've pretty only grab the budget stuff when I need to add a small amount to a total to save more from discounts/coupons or on the rare occasion that someone I trust recommends a pair they purchased. If you're curious, the Black Lotus are nothing like the white are said to be. They are actually quite a pleasant listen.



the reason is simple, 300 Blue Glue is a better driver especially at the same price, with stock tuning it may not be very impressive (see RY4s 300 Ohm) but well tuned... IMO I have not tested a driver of that impedance that is better.

It's the 300 Ohm King


----------



## Silver

i dont know anything other than MDR-E888

same Westone 2 bandwagon was 10 years ago


----------



## FranQL (Nov 20, 2022)

Silver said:


> i dont know anything other than MDR-E888
> 
> same Westone 2 bandwagon was 10 years ago



Well, this niche market that is the buds, within which it is already a niche market, today it is in good health so that you can update your buds for little money and with much higher yields.

Vintage buds are very overrated (it's my opinion obviously) and I think that today there are budget games that improve them without effort.

However, in headphones I don't think it's like that.


----------



## Silver

Polite internet argument, without Facebook inc exposing real name.

Grado SR325 was Third party heard ideals of best stereo products... It was good almost 20 years time


----------



## Silver

FranQL said:


> Well, this niche market that is the buds, within which it is already a niche market, today it is in good health so that you can update your buds for little money and with much higher yields.
> 
> Vintage buds are very overrated (it's my opinion obviously) and I think that today there are budget games that improve them without effort.
> 
> However, in headphones I don't think it's like that.


Apple stock ear iPod would do fine, this statement would apply to anybody except Head-fi


----------



## baskingshark (Nov 20, 2022)

FranQL said:


> Well, this niche market that is the buds, within which it is already a niche market, today it is in good health so that you can update your buds for little money and with much higher yields.
> 
> Vintage buds are very overrated (it's my opinion obviously) and I think that today there are budget games that improve them without effort.
> 
> However, in headphones I don't think it's like that.



Have to agree with this. For example, the Sennheiser headphones were released decades ago, but are still respected today eg HD650!

For earbuds/IEMs, I think the industry has moved so rapidly that an IEM of say 4 - 5 years ago has been overtaken in sound and price by a modern day CHIFI for multiples cheaper. Just 4 years back, a single driver IEM would cost $100 USD or so. Multi drivers maybe $300 USD and above. Nowadays, sub $20 can give quite decent sound for earbuds/IEMs, and a $100 IEM of today can easily whack some midFI/TOTL IEMs of a few years past.

I am wondering how come CHIFI hasn't made so many inroads into the headphone market in terms of price-to-performance ratio, compared to IEMs/earbuds. Japanese and western brands still seem to be king in the headphone market, whereas in IEMs/earbuds, CHIFI have already overtaken the budget/midFI segment, and companies like DUNU and QDC for example, are already attacking the TOTL segment. Sennheiser headphones, some of their models are still classics, but IMHO, the Sennheiser IEMs do not give good price-performance ratio.


----------



## Ronion

baskingshark said:


> Damn I should have read your advise before I bought a white lotus 300 on 11/11.
> 
> It just came in yesterday. U are right, the white lotus bass is bloated and a muddy mess, even with amplification. I took off the full foams and used donut foams and the bass is a bit less nebulous.
> 
> ...


You could always try to retune it. That driver is decent and I have it tuned fairly well right now, but I will perfect it.  I can’t stop until it’s right.  I would share the tuning with you if you wanted.  I try to keep it as simple as possible, but no simpler.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> While this might not be of help to your current cause, I might also suggest staying clear of any Samsung branded cable. While they use a fast-charging protocol, it is not compatible with QC or PD normally (which are indeed also different from each other). The best bet if you want a charging cable to be useable for everything is to buy one branded as being compatible with both. It IS possible to have a cable that is compatible with one, but not the other (since they are different protocols and seem to be separating more as the tech gets faster/better).



I must just have gotten lucky because I have only ever checked to see if a cable was PD capable and they have all worked on my last two phones which used Qualcomm's Quick Charge protocol. Thanks for the info! Now I know what to look for. TIL.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

My girl just checked the mailbox because we had forgotten to check it yesterday and the Turandots have arrived despite the tracking info still saying they're at a processing facility. I'm so stoked to try them out when I get home from rehearsal!


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> While this might not be of help to your current cause, I might also suggest staying clear of any Samsung branded cable. While they use a fast-charging protocol, it is not compatible with QC or PD normally (which are indeed also different from each other). The best bet if you want a charging cable to be useable for everything is to buy one branded as being compatible with both. It IS possible to have a cable that is compatible with one, but not the other (since they are different protocols and seem to be separating more as the tech gets faster/better).


Excellent!  Thank you brother.


Silver said:


> Apple stock ear iPod would do fine, this statement would apply to anybody except Head-fi


This is true.  Unfortunately, if you are in to getting the most out of your music and instrumentation and even the tonal color/timbre of the instrument you are hearing, having deep bass, a large soundstage, the Apple earbuds just won’t do.  They are definitely fine for the casual listener, but for the guy who wants more, and there’s always more of something, these will definitely leave you wanting.  As far as I can hear though, you can do a lot worse.  Sometimes even the expensive stuff is a lot worse.  Apple put some effort into building and tuning those.  The people making Vido, EMX, and Monks: less so.  Some of those still come out pretty nice sounding, but as the old adage goes: Even blind squirrels find nuts.


----------



## cod6793

Does anyone else have impressions of yincrow calf? The AuraFy Review is very positive. Soon I will have calf and viridis on hand to compare.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> This is true.  Unfortunately, if you are in to getting the most out of your music and instrumentation and even the tonal color/timbre of the instrument you are hearing, having deep bass, a large soundstage, the Apple earbuds just won’t do.  They are definitely fine for the casual listener, but for the guy who wants more, and there’s always more of something, these will definitely leave you wanting.  As far as I can hear though, you can do a lot worse.  Sometimes even the expensive stuff is a lot worse.  Apple put some effort into building and tuning those.  The people making Vido, EMX, and Monks: less so.  Some of those still come out pretty nice sounding, but as the old adage goes: Even blind squirrels find nuts.



When it comes to Apple stuffs, we can be sure that they have done extensive R&D to ensure that they offend the least amount of people   Take AirPods Pro for example, if I see a reviewer complain about their “tonality” or “tuning”, I would question the reviewer because the tuning of those are so natural and “plain Jane” that if it has a Japanese girl mascot with Moondrop on it, they will hail it the “best tuned” TWS in the world. The only problem is technical performance. But perhaps Apple makes everything a bit blurry to reduce listening fatigue when people blasting music?

I’ve always thought that some high-end “audiophile” stuffs are either tuned by uninformed or arrogant engineers (”i know my stuff, my tuning is the best”), given how far off the normal tonality they can be.


----------



## FranQL (Nov 20, 2022)

when you do a tuning for yourself, it's normal to be arrogant... you do what you think is the best for you, And if it's the best for yourself, what more could you ask for?

When you do a tuning for others, and pretends to do the best for others... I don't know if it's a success or a mistake... being arrogant in that case can be an absolute failure.

I've always thought that something great / perfect for me can perfectly be garbage for whoever listens to it, and not be worth more than the materials it's made of.

But... to do something great, you have to risk my dear friends, average is just that, average..... all my admiration for those crazy people who do sublime things, especially designs that I have in my collection and will remain with me.


----------



## o0genesis0o

FranQL said:


> When you do a tuning for others, and pretends to do the best for others... I don't know if it's a success or a mistake... being arrogant in that case can be an absolute failure.



This is the arrogance I was talking about, when manufacturers keep making ice picks or unnatural sounding stuffs and get defensive with their community and reviewers.

I am aware of that arrogance to well   I was so sure about my tuning with subdued ear-gain and boosted lower-midrange to enhance soundstage depth. The buds that I built realised that vision, and I thought it is the best. And then I started listening tests. All of my participants (colleagues, to be specific) raised the same issue: too muddy and not detailed at all. I was so (internally) offended. And then I sat down and listen. Boy oh boy they are muddy. I paid too much attention to the soundstage depth that I was completely obvious to the fact that the drivers cannot keep up with that kind of tuning.



FranQL said:


> But... to do something great, you have to risk my dear friends, average is just that, average..... all my admiration for those crazy people who do sublime things, especially designs that I have in my collection and will remain with me.



Totally agree here.


----------



## dsonance

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I think the Rosemarys and Black Lotus S300 are rough equivalents and would just come down to subjective taste to decide between them. I personally think the HE 150Pros are a smidge above both in technical performance/proficiency. All three get smoked by the NSC Audio 80ohm LCPs in the copper shells.


Modded, or OTB?

I'm assuming you are referring to these (the LCP version)? - https://m.aliexpress.us/item/3256804073098633.html


----------



## dsonance

JAnonymous5150 said:


> P.S. For anyone who cares, the TRN EMX are so light that they are nearly impossible to get a solid fit with worn over ear as intended. From what I am able to hear, it doesn't sound like I'm missing much anyways, but I figured someone out there maybe contemplating their purchase.
> 
> Time to crack these MFers open to harvest those drivers...


Keep us posted on how that goes, brother!

As far as the shells go, maybe some weights could be added, once you get them opened? But, for wearing  cord-down, I thought people usually preferred lighter shells. I'm thinking about all the Chaconne wearing fatigue complaints, for example.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> This is the arrogance I was talking about, when manufacturers keep making ice picks or unnatural sounding stuffs and get defensive with their community and reviewers.
> 
> I am aware of that arrogance to well   I was so sure about my tuning with subdued ear-gain and boosted lower-midrange to enhance soundstage depth. The buds that I built realised that vision, and I thought it is the best. And then I started listening tests. All of my participants (colleagues, to be specific) raised the same issue: too muddy and not detailed at all. I was so (internally) offended. And then I sat down and listen. Boy oh boy they are muddy. I paid too much attention to the soundstage depth that I was completely obvious to the fact that the drivers cannot keep up with that kind of tuning.
> 
> ...


Now you are getting into the "art" part of tuning 

Other things I've noticed that may be of help: the more bass-shy/heavy you measure, the more treble-shy/heavy you should measure.  As you turn up the volume, you hear bass and treble more readily.  Buds that sound sweet at a certain volume, but not another will usually have one end balanced and the other end considerably out of balance.  A target is only an ideal and the real world rarely abides; particularly in buds.  When you combine that built-in issues with the driver, placement, masking and foams aging, you really have to listen carefully and think about what's necessary with your acoustic impedance and where it's concentrated.  That's my treatise on headphone/earbud tuning LOL.  Oh, I should add, mids are crucial.  Everything else is candied yams and gravy.


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> P.S. For anyone who cares, the TRN EMX are so light that they are nearly impossible to get a solid fit with worn over ear as intended. From what I am able to hear, it doesn't sound like I'm missing much anyways, but I figured someone out there maybe contemplating their purchase.
> 
> Time to crack these MFers open to harvest those drivers...


Those sound like tantalizing drivers!


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Nov 20, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Those sound like tantalizing drivers!



I'll take pics when I get around to pulling them out. For now I just got done with like 6 hours of drumming so I'm planted firmly in my recliner having a calm down listening sesh lol! I'm getting old...

Edit: I should also add that the drivers in the EMX do sound like they have potential. It just sounds like TRN didn't do a great job with them.


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I'll take pics when I get around to pulling them out. For now I just got done with like 6 hours of drumming so I'm planted firmly in my recliner having a calm down listening sesh lol! I'm getting old...
> 
> Edit: I should also add that the drivers in the EMX do sound like they have potential. It just sounds like TRN didn't do a great job with them.


Bro, you guys recorded Staying Alive in 1978.  I believe that makes you officially old now.  I mean it’s 2022!  Drummers stay young looking though.  I just saw a selfie taken by Animal from the Dr. Teeth and the Electric Mayhem.  He hasn’t aged a day in the last 46 years!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> Bro, you guys recorded Staying Alive in 1978.  I believe that makes you officially old now.  I mean it’s 2022!  Drummers stay young looking though.  I just saw a selfie taken by Animal from the Dr. Teeth and the Electric Mayhem.  He hasn’t aged a day in the last 46 years!



Animal is my boy! He and I go way back. Staying Alive, now those were the days...😎🤘


----------



## baskingshark

Ronion said:


> Now you are getting into the "art" part of tuning
> 
> Other things I've noticed that may be of help: the more bass-shy/heavy you measure, the more treble-shy/heavy you should measure.  As you turn up the volume, you hear bass and treble more readily.  Buds that sound sweet at a certain volume, but not another will usually have one end balanced and the other end considerably out of balance.  A target is only an ideal and the real world rarely abides; particularly in buds.  When you combine that built-in issues with the driver, placement, masking and foams aging, you really have to listen carefully and think about what's necessary with your acoustic impedance and where it's concentrated.  That's my treatise on headphone/earbud tuning LOL.  Oh, I should add, mids are crucial.  Everything else is candied yams and gravy.



Great advise, regarding the Fletcher Munson curve (Equal Loudness contour), which is hardly talked about.

Music sounds more V-shaped (bass and treble is more prominently perceived) at louder volumes. Thing is, not many reviewers, tuners and consumers mention the volume they use their gear at. So perhaps something was tuned/reviewed at a soft volume, but the user uses it at a loud volume, the FR and listening impressions will be skewed!


----------



## Silver

Ronion said:


> Excellent!  Thank you brother.
> 
> This is true.  Unfortunately, if you are in to getting the most out of your music and instrumentation and even the tonal color/timbre of the instrument you are hearing, having deep bass, a large soundstage, the Apple earbuds just won’t do.  They are definitely fine for the casual listener, but for the guy who wants more, and there’s always more of something, these will definitely leave you wanting.  As far as I can hear though, you can do a lot worse.  Sometimes even the expensive stuff is a lot worse.  Apple put some effort into building and tuning those.  The people making Vido, EMX, and Monks: less so.  Some of those still come out pretty nice sounding, but as the old adage goes: Even blind squirrels find nuts.


Owner, previous has-been of, VSONIC GR07, SE535, Westone 2, GRADO SR80

i cant launch a SME business of wholesale audiovisual products, u need enough stock to say so


----------



## Silver (Nov 21, 2022)

There is a lot of local regulations, custom and expectation to do business.

Being persistent OFF-TOPIC Chi-Fi if understood as Chinese products in audiovisual

Actually is the Earbuds in concern, i found there is lack of interest in this type of audio products to Undersigned


----------



## Silver

Ronion said:


> Now you are getting into the "art" part of tuning
> 
> Other things I've noticed that may be of help: the more bass-shy/heavy you measure, the more treble-shy/heavy you should measure.  As you turn up the volume, you hear bass and treble more readily.  Buds that sound sweet at a certain volume, but not another will usually have one end balanced and the other end considerably out of balance.  A target is only an ideal and the real world rarely abides; particularly in buds.  When you combine that built-in issues with the driver, placement, masking and foams aging, you really have to listen carefully and think about what's necessary with your acoustic impedance and where it's concentrated.  That's my treatise on headphone/earbud tuning LOL.  Oh, I should add, mids are crucial.  Everything else is candied yams and gravy.


Sony MDR-E888 was 30 USD or something in 2002 AD

SHURE SE535 was 300USD or more in 2012 AD, ten years later than when i got MDR E888

argue they are both mid range intense,

U say off topic, latter is definitely IEM, E888 is vintage to most member of head-fi


----------



## JAnonymous5150

dsonance said:


> Modded, or OTB?
> 
> I'm assuming you are referring to these (the LCP version)? - https://m.aliexpress.us/item/3256804073098633.html



OOTB and, yes, those are the 80ohm LCPs I was referring to. They're one heck of a deal! I also really like using those shells for my DIY projects. They offer a lot of flexibility with tuning methods and such and the fit is perfect for me.


----------



## drewbadour

I made a thing today! Well, 3 things:

From top to bottom: 32BG, 150BG, 32BG (stock).

First attempt and I'm pretty happy with the results!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

drewbadour said:


> I made a thing today! Well, 3 things:
> 
> From top to bottom: 32BG, 150BG, 32BG (stock).
> 
> First attempt and I'm pretty happy with the results!



Nice first attempt(s)! They look great to me. When you say "32BG (stock)" does that mean you just soldered the driver up, assembled the shell, and started listening?


----------



## drewbadour (Nov 21, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Nice first attempt(s)! They look great to me. When you say "32BG (stock)" does that mean you just soldered the driver up, assembled the shell, and started listening?


Yep! I wanted to keep one "stock" as a reference so I could tell what my tweaks were doing!
Unfortunately, I only bought one pair of 150BG and couldn't do the same for that driver - instead, I've been using my "modded" Rosemary as a reference!


----------



## Gifting (Nov 21, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> I stupidly went against my own advise against buying more budget side grade pokemons haha, was hoping to somehow uncover some hidden gem among the thrash!


I suffer from the same ailment. I always want to find a hidden gem, preferably cheap. I recently got the LCP and Titanium mmcx earbuds from Ali.  https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804251577857.html?
Two reviews said the Titanium version sounded better than NiceHCK EBX21. I've never owned any totl earbud, and wanted a taste. I'm glad I got them, both are very detailed. I like the LCP driver better, sounds more natural.

Though I prefer the FF3 I just got, haha.

Edit: Maybe the LCP earbud that @JAnonymous5150 recommends sounds better than the one I got, I don't know


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Nice first attempt(s)! They look great to me. When you say "32BG (stock)" does that mean you just soldered the driver up, assembled the shell, and started listening?


That driver is famous for that tuning.  It went all the way to “god tier” at one point in time like that.  Not sure if it’s still there.  I made a bit more riveting version (pun intended) and this is what I would recommend to Mr. @drewbadour.  For perfection, my rivet should be a bit shorter by the measurements.  Yes, my rivet is too big and requires a reduction.  My ear agrees with the measurements.  The 150BG definitely has potential to be very neutral and engaging.  It’s not the last word in any particular metric, but it’s above average at everything.  To my ear, the 32 Ohm version (not actually related) is just not as good at anything, though it’s insanely efficient.


----------



## drewbadour (Nov 21, 2022)

Ronion said:


> That driver is famous for that tuning.  It went all the way to “god tier” at one point in time like that.  Not sure if it’s still there.  I made a bit more riveting version (pun intended) and this is what I would recommend to Mr. @drewbadour.  For perfection, my rivet should be a bit shorter by the measurements.  Yes, my rivet is too big and requires a reduction.  My ear agrees with the measurements.  The 150BG definitely has potential to be very neutral and engaging.  It’s not the last word in any particular metric, but it’s above average at everything.  To my ear, the 32 Ohm version (not actually related) is just not as good at anything, though it’s insanely efficient.


Yeah, I'm finding the 32BG to be really solid and they take to tuning quite readily! I chose them as a way to ease my way into DIY! So far haven't broken anything so that's a good sign haha. And they sound great right from the headphone jack on my computer/phone!

I'd agree that the 150BG is more refined and tight and overall just a better sounding driver than the 32BG - but it does like a bit of juice. I might have to pick up more of these for my next round of experimentation! Like you said, flattening the FR a bit made it delightfully neutral and engaging!

For tomorrow's project, I have a couple of pairs of 32 red dot ti comps that I want to at least solder and assemble and one more pair of 32BG (maybe I'll do the rivet mod on this one but I will need to source rivets first - maybe I'll just put the holes in to start)!

I'm having a lot of fun swapping out foams and making adjustments to suit my tastes! This could end up being another expensive rabbit hole for me haha.

(also, I see we used the same cable.. nice!)


----------



## Ronion

drewbadour said:


> I made a thing today! Well, 3 things:
> 
> From top to bottom: 32BG, 150BG, 32BG (stock).
> 
> First attempt and I'm pretty happy with the results!


I didn’t get to tell you earlier, but really nice job bro!  Those look great.  That 32BG would have cost you $75 and you made it for about $10 or so depending on where you bought from.   What tuning foams do you have?  Did you stock up on multiple densities?


----------



## Ronion (Nov 21, 2022)

drewbadour said:


> Yeah, I'm finding the 32BG to be really solid and they take to tuning quite readily! I chose them as a way to ease my way into DIY! So far haven't broken anything so that's a good sign haha. And they sound great right from the headphone jack on my computer/phone!
> 
> I'd agree that the 150BG is more refined and tight and overall just a better sounding driver than the 32BG - but it does like a bit of juice. I might have to pick up more of these for my next round of experimentation! Like you said, flattening the FR a bit made it delightfully neutral and engaging!
> 
> ...


I like those red dots as well.  Some of their kissing cousins are sold in stock tunings also, well received from several folks around here and I believe were also ‘god tiered’.  The Red Dots are a very similar sound, but a technical notch below the 150BG IMO, but not by much. I believe you have essentially picked the best drivers to start with and the same ones I did.


----------



## Ronion

Here’s a set of buds I built this week that I really like and it’s an audiophile’s way to reuse, repurpose, and recycle.  It’s made out of shells from a dead Tingo TG38, a FEAEAEAEAEAEAEL Snow-Lotus (or something like that) cable, and a 300Ohm monster for a driver.  This cable is glorious (IMO) and checks all my boxes: minimal microphonics, round so it doesn’t snag on zippers, flexible and soft as they come, and it has a mic and remote so that it can be used in any situation.  Of course this is tuned precisely to my curve and that took some effort due to this cable’s diameter.  It’s all worth it.  Well worth it.  It’s another one that I won’t give away.  This one is mine.  Unlike @JAnonymous5150 , I got manicured for this shot for you guys.


----------



## o0genesis0o

My TGXear Serratus is here. Some thoughts in no particular order:

Thoughtful packing and presentation.
The cable choice is excellent. The best cable I have ever used bar none. Look good, feel good, very easy to handle, no microphonic at all
Craftsmanship is top notch. Everything in the shell is clear and tidy. 
The bass tube is interesting. I heard that it's actually IEM sound tubes with etymotic dampers inside. 
Tonality of Serratus is light and airy with plenty treble sparkle around 7-8k region. The midrange sounds very right, if not a touch cold.
The treble sparkle is double-edged sword. They are excellent for orchestral and instrumental, but you better lower the volume with sibilant vocal songs, otherwise it's can get fatiguing fast. 
Resolution of these drivers are outstanding. Easily trade blows with TOTL IEMs that I have heard, even when volume is lowered.
Soundstage is very good, perhaps a bit deeper than usual earbuds.


----------



## ian91 (Nov 22, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Tonality of Serratus is light and airy with plenty treble sparkle around 7-8k region. The midrange sounds very right, if not a touch cold.
> The treble sparkle is double-edged sword. They are excellent for orchestral and instrumental, but you better lower the volume with sibilant vocal songs, otherwise it's can get fatiguing fast.



Serratus is too light in noteweight for me, so I don't get the musical impact from instrumental that I look for. It's superb for ambient and electronic stuff but for anything else I reach for the Alpha and more recently the Ripples. I'm actually impressed with the Ripples and how musical and revealing the Super One driver is (or atleast this implementation of it).

Glad you're enjoying it. Serratus is just a really good bud with tgx taking QC and build quality seriously.


----------



## dsonance

o0genesis0o said:


> My TGXear Serratus is here. Some thoughts in no particular order:
> 
> Thoughtful packing and presentation.
> The cable choice is excellent. The best cable I have ever used bar none. Look good, feel good, very easy to handle, no microphonic at all
> ...


Congratulations, brother! Good things come to those, who wait  (it's been about 1.5 months for you, right?)

The album I mentioned in the TGXEAR thread,  The Magical Forest album by the Trio Mediaeval, is really wonderful on the Serratus.  @ian91, I am curious how you feel about that one. I guess it could be seen as ambient?


----------



## o0genesis0o

ian91 said:


> Serratus is too light in noteweight for me, so I don't get the musical impact from instrumental that I look for. It's superb for ambient and electronic stuff but for anything else I reach for the Alpha and more recently the Ripples. I'm actually impressed with the Ripples and how musical and revealing the Super One driver is (or atleast this implementation of it).
> 
> Glad you're enjoying it. Serratus is just a really good bud with tgx taking QC and build quality seriously.



I’m not extremely happy with the tuning either, due to the lack of smoothness for certain genres. It’s good, but not exceptional tuning. Resolution and soundstage are top notch though.

You are saying that Jim harvests smabat super one drivers to build Ripples? The implementation of smabat with M4 was mediocre at best.



dsonance said:


> Congratulations, brother! Good things come to those, who wait  (it's been about 1.5 months for you, right?)
> 
> The album I mentioned in the TGXEAR thread,  The Magical Forest album by the Trio Mediaeval, is really wonderful on the Serratus.  @ian91, I am curious how you feel about that one. I guess it could be seen as ambient?



Will try


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> My TGXear Serratus is here. Some thoughts in no particular order:
> 
> Thoughtful packing and presentation.
> The cable choice is excellent. The best cable I have ever used bar none. Look good, feel good, very easy to handle, no microphonic at all
> ...


That's the same "sparkle" that the 32Ohm version of that driver has and why I discarded the 32 Blue PET.  I even did a faceplate transplant and nothing fixes it.  I believe your rig naturally measures brighter there than mine does particularly in that same region (I may be wrong, but I seem to recall that).  That resonance is hard to kill and I eventually I did reduce it dramatically, but I was unable to kill its audible detriments to my satisfaction.  My whole mission with that driver was to kill that spike.  Once it's reduced a livable level, the dips on either side of it are far too low.  It's the only driver that I've ever given up on.  The 300 Ohm White Glue is pushing me to that edge, but not yet... To be continued...  I am persistent, but occasionally you have to throw in the towel.  I'm glad I haven't bought the 300Ohm Blue PET though I bet it sounds better than the 32Ohm version.  I wonder why there's so much driver variation?  I did get something like that once when I glued a set together.  It's really hard to get things like that absolutely symmetrical--glue, melting holes and such.  Even drilling can be tricky to perfect on the level you need for acoustic impedance matching.  It's still better than my Monk (my Monk is awful), but If you pull the driver out and make sure all the internals are symmetrical to each other, you might be able to get better channel balance unless it's just a driver issue.  I've had a few drivers that I've had to scrap d/t imbalances, but where those imbalances are located makes me think they are largely a tuning precision fix.  Of course the one driver looks like it has a misshapen or poorly centered voice coil and that might actually be a driver problem.  The resonance is a little lower than normal for such a thing, but not out of the question.  It could also be a leak from glue or something as well.  You may want to try blowing on the drivers (ancient earbud people fix that I have done with good results twice now) to see if there's a crinkle in one of the diaphragms... In buds that could cause VC issues.  IDK, just thinking out loud here.  I know in the tuning process I after get drivers that go that far out of whack and I've almost always found a tuning solution.


ian91 said:


> Serratus is too light in noteweight for me, so I don't get the musical impact from instrumental that I look for. It's superb for ambient and electronic stuff but for anything else I reach for the Alpha and more recently the Ripples. I'm actually impressed with the Ripples and how musical and revealing the Super One driver is (or atleast this implementation of it).
> 
> Glad you're enjoying it. Serratus is just a really good bud with tgx taking QC and build quality seriously.


I'm personally a big fan of SMABAT drivers.  Those ones are special and unique.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> I wonder why there's so much driver variation?
> 
> I'm personally a big fan of SMABAT drivers.  Those ones are special and unique.



Could the foam as well. I tried measuring with Fiio foams (one old one new), and the difference was even larger.

Listening to Serratus makes me want to build buds again. Hopefully my drivers would be here soon. This kind of technical performance without the mid treble peak would be perfect for me.


----------



## Ronion (Nov 23, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Could the foam as well. I tried measuring with Fiio foams (one old one new), and the difference was even larger.
> 
> Listening to Serratus makes me want to build buds again. Hopefully my drivers would be here soon. This kind of technical performance without the mid treble peak would be perfect for me.


The foams could definitely contribute...  That would be a good first step really, but it doesn't look like a probable fix from here.  A foam shouldn't cause more bass and more pinna gain at the same time.  Both of those show some resonance in the VC misalignment region, but at different frequencies.  I'm betting on some other cause as hinted at in the last post. 

My FiiO are my second most mismatched bud (first being the Monk), but only between 4 and 7kHz and by a couple dB.  I've only heard it on a couple recordings.  Meaning it's called attention to itself a couple times.  They do change more dramatically with foam age than others and I think the shape of them contributes, but I can't really say.  I like them at every stage of age.  They have a dip in that same range which I believe exists in your measurements as well.  That the "all day listenable, smooth sound, HD650esque, and a nice soundstage" dip theoretically. 

You can definitely make yourself some very high end buds.


----------



## drewbadour (Nov 23, 2022)

Ronion said:


> I didn’t get to tell you earlier, but really nice job bro!  Those look great.  That 32BG would have cost you $75 and you made it for about $10 or so depending on where you bought from.   What tuning foams do you have?  Did you stock up on multiple densities?


Thanks!

I have thin medium and thick horseshoes on hand. The tuning papers of all sizes that I ordered are somewhere in postal limbo without tracking 

But even still, was able to tune these in ways that I really enjoy with just the horseshoes!

Whipped up a couple 32 red dots today that I love! These and the 32bgs came out to about 7$ (and about 10$ for the 150 bg) in material costs.. less than I paid for qian39, and half what I paid for iris 2.0 and x6. Insane value!

All of them definitely sound a lot better to my ears than a lot of other more expensive things Ive tried!


----------



## drewbadour

o0genesis0o said:


> I’m not extremely happy with the tuning either, due to the lack of smoothness for certain genres. It’s good, but not exceptional tuning. Resolution and soundstage are top notch though.
> 
> You are saying that Jim harvests smabat super one drivers to build Ripples? The implementation of smabat with M4 was mediocre at best.
> 
> ...


Jim was actually able to source all the smabat drivers without the modules and test them all out extensively! Ripples was the result of countless hours of testing! And apparently QC from the factory is not great so he has to go through multiple drivers to find pairs that match and meet his standards with the rest being discarded.

I think it ended up being the 100ohm one sounded the best after working his magic on them. I got to hear a one off build smabat 150ti bud that he put together and while it was good, it wasn't to the level of serratus or alpha.

My ripples almost completed now! Can't wait to hear it!


----------



## Ronion

drewbadour said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I have thin medium and thick horseshoes on hand. The tuning papers of all sizes that I ordered are somewhere in postal limbo without tracking
> 
> ...


That's all you need to tune any of those drivers.  Wait until your papers come in to finish the 150BG in particular.  You can probably get the best bud you've ever heard with those papers, a low density foam and those drivers.  When it comes to foams, there are thin, Low density, Medium density, high density, and thick.  Do you know if you have "thin" or "low density"?


----------



## drewbadour (Nov 23, 2022)

Ronion said:


> That's all you need to tune any of those drivers.  Wait until your papers come in to finish the 150BG in particular.  You can probably get the best bud you've ever heard with those papers, a low density foam and those drivers.  When it comes to foams, there are thin, Low density, Medium density, high density, and thick.  Do you know if you have "thin" or "low density"?


I can check in the morning! It was the one that came in the mixed pack from NSC Audio. I think it's low density now that you mention it!

Hopefully the papers arrive soon, I wish I had a way to see where there are 😢


----------



## ian91

dsonance said:


> The album I mentioned in the TGXEAR thread, The Magical Forest album by the Trio Mediaeval, is really wonderful on the Serratus. @ian91, I am curious how you feel about that one. I guess it could be seen as ambient?



I'm going to check this album out tonight! Cheers for the suggestion.


----------



## Ronion

drewbadour said:


> I can check in the morning! It was the one that came in the mixed pack from NSC Audio. I think it's low density now that you mention it!
> 
> Hopefully the papers arrive soon, I wish I had a way to see where there are 😢


That seems right.  You should have all you need for those drivers to be tuned neutral and all day any album enjoyable.  That’s why starting with those drivers is a great way to go.  They are simple to tune and quite capable.


----------



## drewbadour

Ronion said:


> That seems right.  You should have all you need for those drivers to be tuned neutral and all day any album enjoyable.  That’s why starting with those drivers is a great way to go.  They are simple to tune and quite capable.


Nice! So I confirmed they are the low-density ones! Now I just need to wait for my What papers to arrive! I'm guessing papers on the driver and the low-density foam on the shell?


----------



## Esclink

JAnonymous5150 said:


> For a sub €200 all-arounder, you have options like the Yincrow RW-2000, Shozy BK, Penon Audio BS1 Official, and the Simphonio Dragon 2+. Those would be what I would look at for off the shelf buds.
> 
> Then you also have options from DIY makers like @RikudouGoku , @tgx78 , Blur, Cypherus Audio (@Cyperus ), and more that are all worth a look too.
> 
> I'm sure more will occur to me as soon as I post this so I may be responding more than once, but these are all great options. I own or have owned all of the off the shelf buds I mentioned and can attest to them being fantastic options. The only reason I no longer own the RW-2000s and Dragon 2+ is because I bought their successors, but both are great and I've actually been considering buying the RW-2000 again.


I actually already own the Penon Audio BS1. A few years ago some User here told me I shouldn't get them, cause I could better sound for cheaper. And recommended **** DIY EMX500 (for about 10€). And he was right. They both got full and detailed sound but BS1 got poor bass in comparison bass.
Since my Cable broke I wanned to get new buds. I would love to upgrade though 
Curently searching on aliexpress. Are RY4S mmcx good?


----------



## 4ceratops (Nov 23, 2022)

Esclink said:


> I actually already own the Penon Audio BS1. A few years ago some User here told me I shouldn't get them, cause I could better sound for cheaper. And recommended **** DIY EMX500 (for about 10€). And he was right. They both got full and detailed sound but BS1 got poor bass in comparison bass.
> Since my Cable broke I wanned to get new buds. I would love to upgrade though
> Curently searching on aliexpress. Are RY4S mmcx good?


RY4S PLUS mmcx White version.

My favorite cheap earbuds. In terms of sound for me they outperform the Yincrow X6, NSC Audio LCP 80 Ohm, Penon PAC earbuds, XinYue Audio MX500 Titan driver and NiceHCK EB2s. Of course this is just my personal preference, others' opinions may be vastly different.


----------



## Ronion

drewbadour said:


> Nice! So I confirmed they are the low-density ones! Now I just need to wait for my What papers to arrive! I'm guessing papers on the driver and the low-density foam on the shell?


That will get you there with the 150 BeeGee.  There are ways to tune it for more bass, more treble, etc… but if you want a nice neutral sound with good bass and treble, that’s where to begin.  After you get those done, you can buy some really nice drivers and make TOTL-type stuff in MX500 shells.  Buy a couple 300Ohm driver and maybe a 500 or 600 or both.  They get a bit trickier, but they’re worth it.  I’d avoid the 300WG, BG, and Blue PET but the rest of them can get you a TOTL sound that’s all day, any recording lovable.  The 300BG is very good, but too midcentric for me. Spend the extra $5-10.  It’s a pittance for a lifetime of a wide frequency response and the character of those unique cone materials.  You won’t regret it and you’ll save a bundle over buying TOTLs from any manufacturer many of which are not well tuned anyway.  So even if you screw them up, you’re no worse off.  You just have a better bank account.  I like having a better bank account—and better buds.


----------



## drewbadour

Ronion said:


> That will get you there with the 150 BeeGee.  There are ways to tune it for more bass, more treble, etc… but if you want a nice neutral sound with good bass and treble, that’s where to begin.  After you get those done, you can buy some really nice drivers and make TOTL-type stuff in MX500 shells.  Buy a couple 300Ohm driver and maybe a 500 or 600 or both.  They get a bit trickier, but they’re worth it.  I’d avoid the 300WG, BG, and Blue PET but the rest of them can get you a TOTL sound that’s all day, any recording lovable.  The 300BG is very good, but too midcentric for me. Spend the extra $5-10.  It’s a pittance for a lifetime of a wide frequency response and the character of those unique cone materials.  You won’t regret it and you’ll save a bundle over buying TOTLs from any manufacturer many of which are not well tuned anyway.  So even if you screw them up, you’re no worse off.  You just have a better bank account.  I like having a better bank account—and better buds.


Thanks for all the help!!!

It's definitely very fun to try different tunings

Already have the 600bery on the way lol. Kind of nervous, don't want to ruin them


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Esclink said:


> I actually already own the Penon Audio BS1. A few years ago some User here told me I shouldn't get them, cause I could better sound for cheaper. And recommended **** DIY EMX500 (for about 10€). And he was right. They both got full and detailed sound but BS1 got poor bass in comparison bass.
> Since my Cable broke I wanned to get new buds. I would love to upgrade though
> Curently searching on aliexpress. Are RY4S mmcx good?



The RY4S are great cheap buds. I have to register a hard disagree with @4ceratops regarding them being better than the Copper Shelled NSC Audio 80ohm LCPs, but I totally agree with them being amongst the best budget buds out there.


----------



## dsonance

JAnonymous5150 said:


> The RY4S are great cheap buds. I have to register a hard disagree with @4ceratops regarding them being better than the Copper Shelled NSC Audio 80ohm LCPs, but I totally agree with them being amongst the best budget buds out there.


Maybe RY4S PLUS White version is even better, @JAnonymous5150? I remember reading that Plus is different from the plain RY4S, but maybe the colors differ as well (like with the Vidos?)?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

dsonance said:


> Maybe RY4S PLUS White version is even better, @JAnonymous5150? I remember reading that Plus is different from the plain RY4S, but maybe the colors differ as well (like with the Vidos?)?



I have owned the Plus, regular, and mmcx versions and none of them are better than the NSC Audio buds, IMO. I have owned the ones the OP asked about. I didn't know there was another version, but I think it's more likely that we just have different opinions. If someone wants to give me a link to the white version that's supposed to be better, I'd be more than happy to order them and change my opinion publicly if it does in fact change.


----------



## 4ceratops

dsonance said:


> Maybe RY4S PLUS White version is even better, @JAnonymous5150? I remember reading that Plus is different from the plain RY4S, but maybe the colors differ as well (like with the Vidos?)?


I have both the white and black versions of the RY4S Plus and they really don't sound the same. The black is more V and the white is tonally balanced with better mids and great vocals. I have no idea if this was the manufacturer's intent or if it is just an inconsistent manufacturing process. I rather think the latter, as the seller doesn't say anything of the sort.


----------



## 4ceratops (Nov 23, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I have owned the Plus, regular, and mmcx versions and none of them are better than the NSC Audio buds, IMO. I have owned the ones the OP asked about. I didn't know there was another version, but I think it's more likely that we just have different opinions. If someone wants to give me a link to the white version that's supposed to be better, I'd be more than happy to order them and change my opinion publicly if it does in fact change.


Hello, I'm sending a link:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html


----------



## JAnonymous5150

4ceratops said:


> Hello, I'm sending a link:
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html



Okay so mine were blue and black. You're saying the white ones are better than either the blue or black? Is this difference between colors a known thing? I ask because my blue and black pairs sounded very similar if not exactly the same. I only have the blue pair left these days as I gave the black pair away.

Either way, I just ordered a pair in white so when they get here I guess we'll see. I'll keep anyone who's interested updated through posts here.


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay so mine were blue and black. You're saying the white ones are better than either the blue or black? Is this difference between colors a known thing? I ask because my blue and black pairs sounded very similar if not exactly the same. I only have the blue pair left these days as I gave the black pair away.
> 
> Either way, I just ordered a pair in white so when they get here I guess we'll see. I'll keep anyone who's interested updated through posts here.


Different color shells can definitely affect frequency response.  Clear shells measure and of course sound brighter than opaque for instance.  Within those families, the differences are not well documented so who Knows?   The different shell shape variants are also different.


----------



## Gifting (Nov 23, 2022)

4ceratops said:


> RY4S PLUS mmcx White version.
> 
> My favorite cheap earbuds. In terms of sound for me they outperform the Yincrow X6, NSC Audio LCP 80 Ohm, Penon PAC earbuds, XinYue Audio MX500 Titan driver and NiceHCK EB2s. Of course this is just my personal preference, others' opinions may be vastly different.


I think both the NiceHCK DIY MX500 and the RY4S use the same drivers. How would the NiceHCK compare to the RY4S (assuming you heard both)?

Edit: If anyone knows of an earbud that sounds extremely similar to the NiceHCK diy mx500 (with better technicalities), please let me know. I really like that earbud hehe


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Gifting said:


> I think both the NiceHCK DIY MX500 and the RY4S use the same drivers. How would the NiceHCK compare to the RY4S (assuming you heard both)?
> 
> Edit: If anyone knows of an earbud that sounds extremely similar to the NiceHCK diy mx500 (with better technicalities), please let me know. I really like that earbud hehe



Does anyone know how the NiceHCK and Fengru DIY EMX500s differ from one another? I only have the Fengru version, but if they're similar to or the same as the NiceHCK version then I can compare them to my MMCX RY4Ss for you.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Nov 23, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I have owned the Plus, regular, and mmcx versions and none of them are better than the NSC Audio buds, IMO. I have owned the ones the OP asked about. I didn't know there was another version, but I think it's more likely that we just have different opinions. If someone wants to give me a link to the white version that's supposed to be better, I'd be more than happy to order them and change my opinion publicly if it does in fact change.



Just to be thorough I just did some AB listening tests between my blue mmcx RY4S Plus and the NSC Audio 80 LCP Copper Shells to make sure I wasn't misremembering because I hadn't listened to the RY4Ss much at all recently. My memory was accurate and I think the NSC 80s are significantly better.

When I say that these RY4S aren't as good I'm not at all implying that they're bad. I keep my pair around because I actually think they're quite good. Also, to be clear, I'm not saying I prefer the tuning of the NSC 80s (although I do), I'm actually speaking about more objective metrics. They have better technical performance, retrieving more detail, providing better low end articulation, and the separation, imaging, and spatial cues are all on a higher level than the RY4Ss. As we all know, tuning preferences can be quite personal so I wanted to make it clear that I was doing my best to base my opinion on the more objective performance metrics.

Edit: BTW, I paid for the faster shipping so I should have the white RY4S Plus mmcx pretty soon. I'm interested to see if there is a substantial difference between the white and blue versions regardless of performance against the NSC 80s. Looking forward to checking it out.


----------



## Cheesebuggah

Yo bud-experts,

I'm a big sucker for identifying which side is left/right by sensory feeling. Unfortunately, the left/right sides of the Iris 2.0 (or any MX500) seems smooth and flat to the touch. Is there actually some hidden way to tell? If not, is there an easy way to make it discernable? I thought about: a drop of hot glue, a bit of tape, foam color. However, I like to run things without foaming, so red and blue is a no-go. 

Also, can y'all recommend an upgrade to the Iris 2.0 for -- let's say, ~$50? I think I would like a bright signature, and yes: I plan on running without foamies. 

Much obliged!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Cheesebuggah said:


> Yo bud-experts,
> 
> I'm a big sucker for identifying which side is left/right by sensory feeling. Unfortunately, the left/right sides of the Iris 2.0 (or any MX500) seems smooth and flat to the touch. Is there actually some hidden way to tell? If not, is there an easy way to make it discernable? I thought about: a drop of hot glue, a bit of tape, foam color. However, I like to run things without foaming, so red and blue is a no-go.
> 
> ...



I use 2mm rubber O rings that I purchased from my local hardware store. I put one on the cable lead at the base of the right earbud shell. You can buy them on Amazon or AliExpress if you don't want to bother with the hardware store and you can get a bag with tons of them for a few bucks.


----------



## Cheesebuggah

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I use 2mm rubber O rings that I purchased from my local hardware store. I put one on the cable lead at the base of the right earbud shell. You can buy them on Amazon or AliExpress if you don't want to bother with the hardware store and you can get a bag with tons of them for a few bucks.


Not a bad idea. I may just do that.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Cheesebuggah said:


> Not a bad idea. I may just do that.



I tend to just use a simple black one so that it's a little more discreet, but you can also find the O rings in various colors pretty easily so if you'd like to match a particular cable or shell color or use the traditional red color to denote the right side you can do that as well. It actually works very well for me.


----------



## Gifting

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Does anyone know how the NiceHCK and Fengru DIY EMX500s differ from one another? I only have the Fengru version, but if they're similar to or the same as the NiceHCK version then I can compare them to my MMCX RY4Ss for you.


I think they share the same drivers. I saw a teardown of the Fengru in page 1526 of this thread, thanks to @vladstef. Looks like a 32ohm Emx500 DIY driver, the same as in the NiceHCK and the RY4S.





I don't know if that's enough to compare the RY4S and the Fengru, although I'm guessing they share more similarities than not, because of the same driver.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Gifting said:


> I think they share the same drivers. I saw a teardown of the Fengru in page 1526 of this thread, thanks to @vladstef. Looks like a 32ohm Emx500 DIY driver, the same as in the NiceHCK and the RY4S.
> 
> 
> I don't know if that's enough to compare the RY4S and the Fengru, although I'm guessing they share more similarities than not, because of the same driver.



I assumed that they had the same drivers so it's good to know I was right. I meant more along the lines of tuning similarities between the NiceHCK and the Fengru. If they share the same tuning then they would be the same buds so I could compare them to the RY4S for the OP. If not, it wouldn't be a very useful comparison for him.

Edit: Thanks for the info, BTW! 🙏


----------



## jeejack

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Just to be thorough I just did some AB listening tests between my blue mmcx RY4S Plus and the NSC Audio 80 LCP Copper Shells to make sure I wasn't misremembering because I hadn't listened to the RY4Ss much at all recently. My memory was accurate and I think the NSC 80s are significantly better.
> 
> When I say that these RY4S aren't as good I'm not at all implying that they're bad. I keep my pair around because I actually think they're quite good. Also, to be clear, I'm not saying I prefer the tuning of the NSC 80s (although I do), I'm actually speaking about more objective metrics. They have better technical performance, retrieving more detail, providing better low end articulation, and the separation, imaging, and spatial cues are all on a higher level than the RY4Ss. As we all know, tuning preferences can be quite personal so I wanted to make it clear that I was doing my best to base my opinion on the more objective performance metrics.
> 
> Edit: BTW, I paid for the faster shipping so I should have the white RY4S Plus mmcx pretty soon. I'm interested to see if there is a substantial difference between the white and blue versions regardless of performance against the NSC 80s. Looking forward to checking it out.


The white RY4S plus mmcx has the bass port open, it's the only difference compared to the others. I like de silver shell version


----------



## jeejack

Gifting said:


> I think they share the same drivers. I saw a teardown of the Fengru in page 1526 of this thread, thanks to @vladstef. Looks like a 32ohm Emx500 DIY driver, the same as in the NiceHCK and the RY4S.
> 
> 
> I don't know if that's enough to compare the RY4S and the Fengru, although I'm guessing they share more similarities than not, because of the same driver.


Put HS on the drivers and you will like it even more


----------



## jeejack (Nov 24, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> My TGXear Serratus is here. Some thoughts in no particular order:
> 
> Thoughtful packing and presentation.
> The cable choice is excellent. The best cable I have ever used bar none. Look good, feel good, very easy to handle, no microphonic at all
> ...


Do you like what you see ?


----------



## samandhi (Nov 24, 2022)

Cheesebuggah said:


> Yo bud-experts,
> 
> I'm a big sucker for identifying which side is left/right by sensory feeling. Unfortunately, the left/right sides of the Iris 2.0 (or any MX500) seems smooth and flat to the touch. Is there actually some hidden way to tell? If not, is there an easy way to make it discernable? I thought about: a drop of hot glue, a bit of tape, foam color. However, I like to run things without foaming, so red and blue is a no-go.
> 
> ...


If you are worried about there being a perceptible difference using your eyes, you might take a knife and make a very small gouge (provided they aren't metal of some kind), or you can use some sandpaper on a very small area to make them "roughed" up a bit on one side where you can feel it, but not see it (very well). Another way might be using a Dremel to carve a symbol, that way it could be considered a "controlled" scuff where it wouldn't look bad if seen by the eyes.

Having said that, I would not do either of those things as I can't stand blemishes in my gear. But I also don't mind using sight to see which one is which.

Edit:If you use the Dremel method, you would want to use it at a very slow speed and very light pressure, because you might easily melt (or crack) the plastic surrounding the area you are working on otherwise. This method might take some skill to master, unless you just use it to make a dot...


----------



## o0genesis0o

jeejack said:


> Do you like what you see ?



Meh   

If anything, it's to satisfy curiosity about the current hype, "help out" a "friend", and also to see a bass tube up close. Everything is alright except that peak at 7k. Drivers are good though. I wonder if other high impedance drivers are as resolving.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Meh
> 
> If anything, it's to satisfy curiosity about the current hype, "help out" a "friend", and also to see a bass tube up close. Everything is alright except that peak at 7k. Drivers are good though. I wonder if other high impedance drivers are as resolving.


Every 300 Ohm driver I have tried is more resolving than every 150Ohm(ish) driver I have tried except the White Glue one (and I’m not done with him yet and he’s still as resolving ).  I will say that the 32Ohm version of that driver has the same spike and I considered it at first blush to be more resolving than even my 150Ohm drivers.  I just couldn’t get it to where it made my ears happy.  It’s so expensive and pretty, but sonically it’s the worst overall driver I’ve used and the only functional units I’ve thrown out.  The list of drivers I’ve tuned is massive, so I’m not coming from a place of ignorance.  If I can’t listen to it for hours on any playlist, I have no use for such a thing, and I don’t believe in magical tuning abilities.  Every time a read things like that I cringe and there’s something dramatically wrong with the tuning.  I’m sure that amplifying these smaller frequencies gives you a sense of more detail/resolution, and they should be less annoying than a similarly boosted pinna gain, but they still drive me to “turn that ‘stuff’ down”.  You can see on the mics planted in my own ears that there should be a dip in that same range.  Definitely not a boost.  My ears are not outside of the norm either.  My signature has links to demonstrate all of this.  Any treble boost under 10kHz will eventually grow fatiguing.  Research  and intuition agrees. Just screech a chalkboard once and you’ll understand for the rest of your life.  It may sound exciting and revealing at first, but ultimately it’ll lead to irritation, fatigue and a future drawer occupancy.  That’s the danger of hype trains in this hobby and nothing excites a new audiophile more than a frequency boost somewhere because they sound like magic and revealing at first.  The whole “blanket lifted” phenomenon.  I mean lifting a blanket off a speaker will allow more treble through… This one should sound more detailed and perhaps with better timbre if you are looking for such a thing.  If you are looking for a natural, fatigue free sound, this response won’t be what you are looking for.  Still better than a similarly boosted pinna gain in my mind, but I would be tempted to make a notch filter and shave 20dB off that spike.  Maybe if I had dramatic hearing loss…. Even then it’s a “maybe”.  In truth though, the overall sound of this bud should be helped by the mild bass boost.  I’ve always found that one boost or one cut deserves another so to speak.  This is the art of it all in my mind.  People also have different thresholds and resiliences as well.  The pinna gain is definitely in the right ballpark.  A set of HieGi foams may also help.


----------



## mt877

Got these... Yincrow Calf

@suicideup did a nice review: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/yincrow-calf.26155/reviews

I  agree with their review. Definitely has the Yincrow signature sound. I like them with full foams and I found if I wear them over ear style the bass increases. They still sound good if worn straight down. I went for the 4.4mm balanced version.


----------



## ce3eoa

mt877 said:


> Got these... Yincrow Calf
> 
> @suicideup did a nice review: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/yincrow-calf.26155/reviews
> 
> I  agree with their review. Definitely has the Yincrow signature sound. I like them with full foams and I found if I wear them over ear style the bass increases. They still sound good if worn straight down. I went for the 4.4mm balanced version.


I also received Yincrow Calf with the 4.4mm balanced plug, and I am happy with them, I agree with the review


----------



## dsonance

o0genesis0o said:


> Meh
> 
> If anything, it's to satisfy curiosity about the current hype, "help out" a "friend", and also to see a bass tube up close. Everything is alright except that peak at 7k. Drivers are good though. I wonder if other high impedance drivers are as resolving.


@o0genesis0o, do you see any measurement changes with the burn-in? (That is, assuming you've had a chance to burn them in yet.)


----------



## o0genesis0o

dsonance said:


> @o0genesis0o, do you see any measurement changes with the burn-in? (That is, assuming you've had a chance to burn them in yet.)


I will measure again maybe a week from now when I finalise the written review (promised tgx 2 weeks). They still sound the same at this moment, though I have not been using them at much as I expected.


----------



## Esclink

I decided to buy some NICEHCK PK1, RY4S Plus, Faaeal Iris 2.0 and Lotus. And just look which sound the best to me.


----------



## tgx78

o0genesis0o said:


> I will measure again maybe a week from now when I finalise the written review (promised tgx 2 weeks). They still sound the same at this moment, though I have not been using them at much as I expected.





Here is my measurement with coupler resonance set at 8kHz.


----------



## o0genesis0o

tgx78 said:


> Here is my measurement with coupler resonance set at 8kHz.


How do you make this measurement? My resonance peak seems somewhere around 7k and it doesn’t move no matter how I place the buds


----------



## tgx78 (Nov 24, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> How do you make this measurement? My resonance peak seems somewhere around 7k and it doesn’t move no matter how I place the buds


Artificial silicon ear + clear PVC tubing 2.5cm length (9.4mm outer diameter + 6.5mm inner) to mimic average human ear canals.

Earbuds with my stock foam covers sitting on artificial ear -> IEC711 clone.


----------



## o0genesis0o

tgx78 said:


> Artificial silicon ear + clear PVC tubing 2.5cm length (9.4mm outer diameter + 6.5mm inner) to mimic average human ear canals.
> 
> Earbuds with my stock foam covers sitting on artificial ear -> IEC711 clone.


Wow. Great setup! Very impressive how the 8k lines up to neatly


----------



## Ronion (Nov 25, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> T
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did you ever get to the bottom of your channel imbalance?  I pulled out the second bud I ever tuned by measurements today for a retune with all the tricks I have learned since then.  I was surprised how close the drivers still match with old foams.  


These foams are Worn, but of course worn at the same rate.  HieGi foams are really well made.  These are still essentially in my tolerances of being matched within a dB from 100Hz to 7kHz.  I have my doubts about other foams holding up as well as these.  When you apply smoothing to these measurements they are indistinguishable from each other.


Esclink said:


> I decided to buy some NICEHCK PK1, RY4S Plus, Faaeal Iris 2.0 and Lotus. And just look which sound the best to me.


Let us know.  I know which one is my pick out of those, but I'd be interested in knowing what you hear.  Of course I haven't heard the Nicehck pk1...


----------



## o0genesis0o (Nov 25, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Did you ever get to the bottom of your channel imbalance?  I pulled out the second bud I ever tuned by measurements today for a retune with all the tricks I have learned since then.  I was surprised how close the drivers still match with old foams.
> These foams are Worn, but of course worn at the same rate.  HieGi foams are really well made.  These are still essentially in my tolerances of being matched within a dB from 100Hz to 7kHz.  I have my doubts about other foams holding up as well as these.  When you apply smoothing to these measurements they are indistinguishable from each other.
> 
> Let us know.  I know which one is my pick out of those, but I'd be interested in knowing what you hear.  Of course I haven't have the Nicehck pk1...


I haven’t opened up the buds, at least until I finalise my review. I can hear channel imbalance with some bassy electronic music today. The bass is slightly tilted to one side, so I needed to shift the buds back and forth until they are imbalance enough to balance the channel imbalance   . Not as bad as Smabat M4.

Boy I wish I have access to a powerful Shanling source or some of those R2R stuffs for a while to test these. My shanling amp is not strong enough, though the tonality does shift a bit toward a warmer and smoother sound. Can’t stand Serratus + megatron combo. Harsh, thin, strident.


----------



## theresanarc

I got those NiceHCK Traceless buds with the mic, the mic is way too low though. It sits at like stomach level compared to the B40 where it's at your neck. They sound pretty good though but that big MX500 shell is only for limited listening to me. For office usage, I'll stick to either the B40 or Edifier H190 I have. 

Btw anyone know of any good deals on an mp3 player right now under $100 or 150ish that has a really solid interface? My iPod Nano 7G has a great interface but the battery sucks and I've reached the 16 GB capacity even after compressing songs from 320 to 192 kbps. Obviously I'm not looking at the absolute best sounding DAP if I'm compressing songs down to 192 lol.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Nov 25, 2022)

theresanarc said:


> I got those NiceHCK Traceless buds with the mic, the mic is way too low though. It sits at like stomach level compared to the B40 where it's at your neck. They sound pretty good though but that big MX500 shell is only for limited listening to me. For office usage, I'll stick to either the B40 or Edifier H190 I have.
> 
> Btw anyone know of any good deals on an mp3 player right now under $100 or 150ish that has a really solid interface? My iPod Nano 7G has a great interface but the battery sucks and I've reached the 16 GB capacity even after compressing songs from 320 to 192 kbps. Obviously I'm not looking at the absolute best sounding DAP if I'm compressing songs down to 192 lol.



Is Hidizs AP80 Pro X in your budget? Otherwise, wait for the new version of Shanling M0 and M1 (M3? Whatever)

Edit: m1s https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sha...t-portable-player.965347/page-5#post-17261857


----------



## baskingshark

theresanarc said:


> Btw anyone know of any good deals on an mp3 player right now under $100 or 150ish that has a really solid interface? My iPod Nano 7G has a great interface but the battery sucks and I've reached the 16 GB capacity even after compressing songs from 320 to 192 kbps. Obviously I'm not looking at the absolute best sounding DAP if I'm compressing songs down to 192 lol.



Check out the Sony A55. I bought mine at $130 USD during sales first hand.

The stock form is a bit meh. But Mr Walkman has kindly provided a free firmware update that unlocks its potential:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-walkman-custom-firmware-non-android.943661/
https://www.mrwalkman.com/

With the firmware update, region locks are unlocked (so no volume cap), and you can customize it to 4 different sound signatures - bright to neutral to warm. The stock sound is buttery smooth and warm like the Sony housesound, but with the custom firmware, technicalities, layering and imaging are better. It sounds like a midFI DAP with the 
custom firmware.

There is 2 way BT (very stable), and battery life is about 32 hours.

Only issue is the A55 cannot drive too demanding transducers.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Nov 25, 2022)

theresanarc said:


> I got those NiceHCK Traceless buds with the mic, the mic is way too low though. It sits at like stomach level compared to the B40 where it's at your neck. They sound pretty good though but that big MX500 shell is only for limited listening to me. For office usage, I'll stick to either the B40 or Edifier H190 I have.
> 
> Btw anyone know of any good deals on an mp3 player right now under $100 or 150ish that has a really solid interface? My iPod Nano 7G has a great interface but the battery sucks and I've reached the 16 GB capacity even after compressing songs from 320 to 192 kbps. Obviously I'm not looking at the absolute best sounding DAP if I'm compressing songs down to 192 lol.



I would take a look at the Hifi Walker H2. They're $123 on Amazon and I love mine. I purchased mine to use while traveling after leaving my A&K Kann Alpha at home figuring it would basically be something I would give away when I got home because it would be subpar. Instead I have kept it around because it has a wonderful, slightly warm tone to it, plenty of detail, and quite a bit of power behind it to. The fact that it's easy to use, has a clickwheel, and is built like a tank is all just icing on the cake. I've enjoyed this little DAP so much that I'm actually putting together a little collection of low cost, non-Android players.


----------



## dsonance

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I would take a look at the Hifi Walker H2. They're $123 on Amazon and I love mine. I purchased mine to use while traveling after leaving my A&K Kann Alpha at home figuring it would basically be something I would give away when I got home because it would be subpar. Instead I have kept it around because it has a wonderful, slightly warm tone to it, plenty of detail, and quite a bit of power behind it to. The fact that it's easy to use, has a clickwheel, and is built like a tank is all just icing on the cake. I've enjoyed this little DAP so much that I'm actually putting together a little collection of low cost, non-Android players.


It's $99.19 on Amazon right now, while the Black Friday deal lasts. I just got one.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

dsonance said:


> It's $99.19 on Amazon right now, while the Black Friday deal lasts. I just got one.



That is an absolutely fantastic deal! The H2 is a great low cost DAP. It has a great slightly warm tonality that lends a bit of musicality to it's presentation and can be great for pairing with with brighter leaning transducers. I love mine! Congrats on the new DAP. You'll have to let me know what you think of it once you've had some time with it.


----------



## forestitalia

JAnonymous5150 said:


> That is an absolutely fantastic deal! The H2 is a great low cost DAP. It has a great slightly warm tonality that lends a bit of musicality to it's presentation and can be great for pairing with with brighter leaning transducers. I love mine! Congrats on the new DAP. You'll have to let me know what you think of it once you've had some time with it.


Looks just like my Dodocool


----------



## FranQL

baskingshark said:


> Check out the Sony A55. I bought mine at $130 USD during sales first hand.
> 
> The stock form is a bit meh. But Mr Walkman has kindly provided a free firmware update that unlocks its potential:
> 
> ...



over a year ago this sony was really cheap here, now it costs almost as much as the android model. I hope Mr Walkman does something for the NW a105



JAnonymous5150 said:


> I would take a look at the Hifi Walker H2. They're $123 on Amazon and I love mine. I purchased mine to use while traveling after leaving my A&K Kann Alpha at home figuring it would basically be something I would give away when I got home because it would be subpar. Instead I have kept it around because it has a wonderful, slightly warm tone to it, plenty of detail, and quite a bit of power behind it to. The fact that it's easy to use, has a clickwheel, and is built like a tank is all just icing on the cake. I've enjoyed this little DAP so much that I'm actually putting together a little collection of low cost, non-Android players.



I have xduoo X3II, I got power and great sound, hard to think of an improvement for the price and what it offers


----------



## ian91

o0genesis0o said:


> Can’t stand Serratus + megatron combo. Harsh, thin, strident.



That combo is pretty abrasive. Tubes are a good match for Serratus, leaning into expansive staging and smoothing some of the treble. I'm not a fan of the RU6 with any of my high impedance buds to be honest and I'm thinking of selling it on.


----------



## o0genesis0o

ian91 said:


> That combo is pretty abrasive. Tubes are a good match for Serratus, leaning into expansive staging and smoothing some of the treble. I'm not a fan of the RU6 with any of my high impedance buds to be honest and I'm thinking of selling it on.


Is there anything attractive about RU6 besides R2R gimmick? I'm very curious about that one but paying full retail for a device that likely sound poor just to write a review is kind of ... tricky. As far as I know, it is widely panned by measurement folks. Clear-headed ones like Precogvision are not on the R2R hypetrain either. Other reviewers seem to love the fuzzy sound of this dongle.


----------



## ian91

o0genesis0o said:


> Is there anything attractive about RU6 besides R2R gimmick? I'm very curious about that one but paying full retail for a device that likely sound poor just to write a review is kind of ... tricky. As far as I know, it is widely panned by measurement folks. Clear-headed ones like Precogvision are not on the R2R hypetrain either. Other reviewers seem to love the fuzzy sound of this dongle.



It's not exactly fuzzy but it doesn't have great treble presentation (as Precog noted). It's very dry and mid-centric. I feel the limit of the dongle sits at my 64ohm buds. I do like the 'organic' texture of it, which I'm putting down to R2R, but it's not enough for me to keep it. 

Have you heard the ifi Go Bar? It's very expensive but damn does it drive my buds gloriously. There's slightly less texture but the dynamism and staging is incredible for an on-the-go option. The only reason I'm hanging onto my Shanling M8 is because I'm using it to feed my Valhalla 2, otherwise I'd sell that and just keep the Go Bar.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Is there anything attractive about RU6 besides R2R gimmick? I'm very curious about that one but paying full retail for a device that likely sound poor just to write a review is kind of ... tricky. As far as I know, it is widely panned by measurement folks. Clear-headed ones like Precogvision are not on the R2R hypetrain either. Other reviewers seem to love the fuzzy sound of this dongle.


I am personally not a fan of R2R either. The one thing that it has going for it is that you can play PCM natively though.


----------



## FranQL

o0genesis0o said:


> Is there anything attractive about RU6 besides R2R gimmick? I'm very curious about that one but paying full retail for a device that likely sound poor just to write a review is kind of ... tricky. As far as I know, it is widely panned by measurement folks. Clear-headed ones like Precogvision are not on the R2R hypetrain either. Other reviewers seem to love the fuzzy sound of this dongle.


For example Tri TK2 is highly criticized and qualified as rubbish, with graphic tests of how the sound changes blah blah blah.... Sony NW a105 in ASR is rated even worse....

I adore both, so I guess I'm going against the many audiophile and technical absurd sentences I read. Or I just judge by what I hear, that it is music.


----------



## o0genesis0o

ian91 said:


> It's not exactly fuzzy but it doesn't have great treble presentation (as Precog noted). It's very dry and mid-centric. I feel the limit of the dongle sits at my 64ohm buds. I do like the 'organic' texture of it, which I'm putting down to R2R, but it's not enough for me to keep it.
> 
> Have you heard the ifi Go Bar? It's very expensive but damn does it drive my buds gloriously. There's slightly less texture but the dynamism and staging is incredible for an on-the-go option. The only reason I'm hanging onto my Shanling M8 is because I'm using it to feed my Valhalla 2, otherwise I'd sell that and just keep the Go Bar.



Interesting, no idea about the Go Bar. Thanks for the heads up. I'll try the Go Bar when I have a chance. My G5 chews all the dongles that I have, so I have not been looking for dongles for a while.


----------



## o0genesis0o

FranQL said:


> For example Tri TK2 is highly criticized and qualified as rubbish,



Really? I always remember that brick as an excellent device. I guess I have been reading too many Head-fi reviews   

Sources are annoying beasts. I'll just grab a good brick and get it over with.


----------



## FranQL

o0genesis0o said:


> Really? I always remember that brick as an excellent device. I guess I have been reading too many Head-fi reviews
> 
> Sources are annoying beasts. I'll just grab a good brick and get it over with.


I use it in combo with my sony, but keep in mind that I am not an expert in sources and I think that all the ones I use more than fulfill their function and I use them constantly with my transducers. I mean, there's nothing I have that I think is bad.

I don't have a DAP tolt because I think that paying that outrageous amount of money for it is not something that I can afford, given that I spend that amount I have other priorities in my day to day.

But instead of having variety, I think an All-in-one can be the best solution for anyone, hands down. However I have inexpensive DACs, DAPs and Amps.....


----------



## o0genesis0o

FranQL said:


> I use it in combo with my sony, but keep in mind that I am not an expert in sources and I think that all the ones I use more than fulfill their function and I use them constantly with my transducers. I mean, there's nothing I have that I think is bad.
> 
> I don't have a DAP tolt because I think that paying that outrageous amount of money for it is not something that I can afford, given that I spend that amount I have other priorities in my day to day.
> 
> But instead of having variety, I think an All-in-one can be the best solution for anyone, hands down. However I have inexpensive DACs, DAPs and Amps.....



Yup, those bricks are luxurious goods with limited shelf life (battery + unsupported android). Boy I want one, but in the end I settled with topping g5 strapped to an old phone. Clunky, but can be 10 times cheaper (vs the A&K SP2000). I imagine the TK2 is in the same class as G5.


----------



## baskingshark

FranQL said:


> For example Tri TK2 is highly criticized and qualified as rubbish, with graphic tests of how the sound changes blah blah blah.... Sony NW a105 in ASR is rated even worse....
> 
> I adore both, so I guess I'm going against the many audiophile and technical absurd sentences I read. Or I just judge by what I hear, that it is music.



Ironically, a lot of the so called good measuring sources (eg Topping) sound not so great to my ears. It seems like gaming the measurements to get the approval of the measurebators. 

Then you have gear that don't do so well on measurements - eg Schiit, Sony etc - that sound superb.


----------



## digititus

The brain doesn't necessarily equate technical excellence with good sound. Having verifiable technical specifications is useful for QC and marketing claims.


----------



## jeejack

FranQL said:


> I use it in combo with my sony, but keep in mind that I am not an expert in sources and I think that all the ones I use more than fulfill their function and I use them constantly with my transducers. I mean, there's nothing I have that I think is bad.
> 
> I don't have a DAP tolt because I think that paying that outrageous amount of money for it is not something that I can afford, given that I spend that amount I have other priorities in my day to day.
> 
> But instead of having variety, I think an All-in-one can be the best solution for anyone, hands down. However I have inexpensive DACs, DAPs and Amps.....


Guess what hermano? Waste of money. There is no big difference between them


----------



## weexisttocease

Had a great afternoon session with PXVV listening to classical, which sounds absolutely fantastic.


----------



## drewbadour (Nov 26, 2022)

Fun new 32BG build today!

Stormtrooper/panda aesthetic.

The back holes were made to take rivets but they sound fantastic with just a couple IEM nozzle filters slapped on them from the inside!

Edit:
Added rivets. I think this build is complete!


----------



## Ronion

I just sort of built the opposite scheme.  Perhaps an orca or a penguin out of the 300Ohm White Glue.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> I just sort of built the opposite scheme.  Perhaps an orca or a penguin out of the 300Ohm White Glue.


Graph? Impression? You are hanging us dry, mate


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Graph? Impression? You are hanging us dry, mate


This bud is just okay.  It’s tuned fairly tight to my curve, but doesn’t have much below 100hz and I just can’t get the upper midrang/lower treble to sound very good.  You’re better off with the Blue Glue version IMO.  It has a little less bass, but better everything else both measurably speaking and IMO, audibly speaking.  If I had my computer fired up I’d show the graphs, but it’s just not impressive.  The only graph I have saved for this driver is the final one which is averaged.  Averaging hides the treble resonances enough to make them look innocuous.  If only that were the case.  You can reduce the treble resonances by reducing the treble, but the you are left with a warm but midcentric bud.  I managed the symptoms as best I can to get the best balance of dysfunction  😆 I‘m giving this away.  Otherwise it will just become a drawer occupier.  I have too many TOTLs for just “okay”.  Don’t get me wrong, this would be my second best tuned bud if it was a purchased bud.  Only the ff3 sounds better.  I just had higher hopes based on its description and lineage.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> Only the ff3 sounds better. I just had higher hopes based on its description and lineage.


FF5 is coming very soon


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> FF5 is coming very soon


I can’t wait for a more in depth description.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> This bud is just okay.  It’s tuned fairly tight to my curve, but doesn’t have much below 100hz and I just can’t get the upper midrang/lower treble to sound very good.  You’re better off with the Blue Glue version IMO.  It has a little less bass, but better everything else both measurably speaking and IMO, audibly speaking.  If I had my computer fired up I’d show the graphs, but it’s just not impressive.  The only graph I have saved for this driver is the final one which is averaged.  Averaging hides the treble resonances enough to make them look innocuous.  If only that were the case.  You can reduce the treble resonances by reducing the treble, but the you are left with a warm but midcentric bud.  I managed the symptoms as best I can to get the best balance of dysfunction  😆 I‘m giving this away.  Otherwise it will just become a drawer occupier.  I have too many TOTLs for just “okay”.  Don’t get me wrong, this would be my second best tuned bud if it was a purchased bud.  Only the ff3 sounds better.  I just had higher hopes based on its description and lineage.



Any idea to make buds "fancy" whilst still comfortable? My VE Master is fancy alright (thick polished metal shells), but not very comfortable. Usual MX500 shells are very comfortable, but look expendable. I mean just look at our buds and then look at those Vision Ears IEMs on Head-fi banners. I'm dreaming of something clear, thick, with good sonic characteristics for my next projects. Got a bunch of clear shells just before you inform me they suck


----------



## Ronion

Several of the metal shells available on AE are comfortable and purdy IMO.  I’m devising a higher QC method of tuning them that’s easy as we speak.  It will be a while though.  I’ve been working on it for weeks.


----------



## samandhi (Nov 27, 2022)

jeejack said:


> Guess what hermano? Waste of money. There is no big difference between them


Please don't take offense to anything I say here, as it isn't meant to be argumentative, but more thought provoking (or even playing "Devil's advocate").

While I would have to agree that they CAN be a waste of money if buying blind, and not getting the sound you want from them, I would have to (very) respectfully disagree that there is no big difference between them. Now, perhaps your statement was aimed at the gear you have pictured, in which case you might be right but I am not sure because I have not heard all of those. And if that IS the case then just ignore me.

But, if your comment was about DAPs in general, or DAC/amp combos, THIS is where I might say that (to my ears anyhow) there are some pretty big differences between: brands, quality, power, amplifier, etc.. thus making the sound and technicalities quite different from one another. It also is going to depend on the quality of head gear you use with this gear.



Spoiler: Some Of My DAPs & DAC/amps












Also keep in mind that I am not necessarily talking about sounding "better" or "worse" here, I am only talking about sounding different.


----------



## FranQL (Nov 27, 2022)

Regarding sound differences, I can speak as something particularly perceptible with my Sony, it is simply great as it combines with all my buds, etc... the lack of power is the weak point without a doubt...

The equation is simply simple, having everything is too expensive, so an external dac/amp is the cheapest solution, as I said before an all in one I'm sure it's the right bet, but it's too expensive.

It's the different levels of the hobby, it's simple, a lotoo supertolt must sound wonderful, but with €4,000, or those of Chinese brands for around €2,000, at those prices I can really do a lot of things to spend is that.

Using the phone with E1DA I think it already allows you to enter more than acceptable levels, even if you don't need power in abundance, a creative dongle, tempotec, etc already allows you the entry level.

It's a pain to carry everything, and more than something portable it seems that you are going to do an electrical installation..... but it is what it is LOL!!!!!!



edit: those of you who have cleaned to take the photo..  I know that it is perfectly not real, your table is always dirty like mine


----------



## Ronion

Okay, just so you guys with the Megatron know, you can actually order USB-C cables from VE that are longer in length.  They just aren’t listed anywhere on their site.  I even tried the specific one that @JAnonymous5150 uses and it doesn’t work with any of my devices.  So cables with this thing can be very tricky and VE confirmed this with me.  They work with everything else other than the Megatron.  Anyway, I ordered them last night and they are cheap as chips.  Hopefully they work because the Megatron has become a close friend of mine at this time and I still believe in social distancing LOL.  In truth, I really do enjoy the Megatron though it’s not the last word in fidelity.  Pairing it with the 600Be is an exercise in midcentric glory.  It’s simply the deepest soundstage I’ve heard in any headphones and the Megatron is known for a somewhat intimate stage.  I don’t know if those impressions come from its SE output or if its intimacy adds an increased awareness of the 600’s natural depth, or what’s happening there.  All I know is it blows my mind and I’ve been an audiophile for 30 years.  I haven’t tried this bud with any other source, so it could be just the bud, but I have another SE version of the bud and it is impressive as I’ve heard before, but less so than the balanced through the Megatron.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Okay, just so you guys with the Megatron know, you can actually order USB-C cables from VE that are longer in length.  They just aren’t listed anywhere on their site.  I even tried the specific one that @JAnonymous5150 uses and it doesn’t work with any of my devices.  So cables with this thing can be very tricky and VE confirmed this with me.  They work with everything else other than the Megatron.  Anyway, I ordered them last night and they are cheap as chips.  Hopefully they work because the Megatron has become a close friend of mine at this time and I still believe in social distancing LOL.  In truth, I really do enjoy the Megatron though it’s not the last word in fidelity.  Pairing it with the 600Be is an exercise in midcentric glory.  It’s simply the deepest soundstage I’ve heard in any headphones and the Megatron is known for a somewhat intimate stage.  I don’t know if those impressions come from its SE output or if its intimacy adds an increased awareness of the 600’s natural depth, or what’s happening there.  All I know is it blows my mind and I’ve been an audiophile for 30 years.  I haven’t tried this bud with any other source, so it could be just the bud, but I have another SE version of the bud and it is impressive as I’ve heard before, but less so than the balanced through the Megatron.


Congratulations on picking the right thing for you bro! 

It isn't often that I run across something that gives me the "awe" that you are feeling, but every now and again, I DO get it. This is the only reason I ever decide to purchase new stuff (for a while now), because my current (and aging) stuff are still absolutely fantastic (to my ears). It is more akin to a drug when running into something that gives that level of performance (for you). It is something that we all try and reproduce whenever we can, though quite often fail to do so, and just spend the money on a hope. 

Having said that, I still have some head gear from many years ago that still "wow" me now and again, and remind me why I keep them around (i.e. Sennsheiser HD700 from 11 years ago). I have found that new isn't ALWAYS better.


----------



## samandhi

FranQL said:


> those of you who have cleaned to take the photo.. I know that it is perfectly not real, your table is always dirty like mine


This is absolutely a true statement. 🤯


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Congratulations on picking the right thing for you bro!
> 
> It isn't often that I run across something that gives me the "awe" that you are feeling, but every now and again, I DO get it. This is the only reason I ever decide to purchase new stuff (for a while now), because my current (and aging) stuff are still absolutely fantastic (to my ears). It is more akin to a drug when running into something that gives that level of performance (for you). It is something that we all try and reproduce whenever we can, though quite often fail to do so, and just spend the money on a hope.
> 
> Having said that, I still have some head gear from many years ago that still "wow" me now and again, and remind me why I keep them around (i.e. Sennsheiser HD700 from 11 years ago). I have found that new isn't ALWAYS better.


I saw the HD700 on sale a few years ago for a crazy cheap price and passed on them.  Now I regret it.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> Okay, just so you guys with the Megatron know, you can actually order USB-C cables from VE that are longer in length.  They just aren’t listed anywhere on their site.  I even tried the specific one that @JAnonymous5150 uses and it doesn’t work with any of my devices.  So cables with this thing can be very tricky and VE confirmed this with me.  They work with everything else other than the Megatron.  Anyway, I ordered them last night and they are cheap as chips.  Hopefully they work because the Megatron has become a close friend of mine at this time and I still believe in social distancing LOL.  In truth, I really do enjoy the Megatron though it’s not the last word in fidelity.  Pairing it with the 600Be is an exercise in midcentric glory.  It’s simply the deepest soundstage I’ve heard in any headphones and the Megatron is known for a somewhat intimate stage.  I don’t know if those impressions come from its SE output or if its intimacy adds an increased awareness of the 600’s natural depth, or what’s happening there.  All I know is it blows my mind and I’ve been an audiophile for 30 years.  I haven’t tried this bud with any other source, so it could be just the bud, but I have another SE version of the bud and it is impressive as I’ve heard before, but less so than the balanced through the Megatron.



That's so weird that the cable didn't work for you. I literally use it with my Megatron all the time. Sorry bro, it never occurred to me that it wouldn't work for others because it works with mine.


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> That's so weird that the cable didn't work for you. I literally use it with my Megatron all the time. Sorry bro, it never occurred to me that it wouldn't work for others because it works with mine.


No worries brother.  That’s just the name of the game.  I still enjoy the Megatron.  The VE rep said it is tricky but they have 3 different cable lengths that work with it no matter what.


----------



## DBaldock9

FranQL said:


> ...
> 
> edit: those of you who have cleaned to take the photo..  I know that it is perfectly not real, your table is always dirty like mine



My table is always messy - but my kitchen counter is clean, so that's where the photos are usually taken...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> Okay, just so you guys with the Megatron know, you can actually order USB-C cables from VE that are longer in length.  They just aren’t listed anywhere on their site.  I even tried the specific one that @JAnonymous5150 uses and it doesn’t work with any of my devices.  So cables with this thing can be very tricky and VE confirmed this with me.  They work with everything else other than the Megatron.  Anyway, I ordered them last night and they are cheap as chips.  Hopefully they work because the Megatron has become a close friend of mine at this time and I still believe in social distancing LOL.  In truth, I really do enjoy the Megatron though it’s not the last word in fidelity.  Pairing it with the 600Be is an exercise in midcentric glory.  It’s simply the deepest soundstage I’ve heard in any headphones and the Megatron is known for a somewhat intimate stage.  I don’t know if those impressions come from its SE output or if its intimacy adds an increased awareness of the 600’s natural depth, or what’s happening there.  All I know is it blows my mind and I’ve been an audiophile for 30 years.  I haven’t tried this bud with any other source, so it could be just the bud, but I have another SE version of the bud and it is impressive as I’ve heard before, but less so than the balanced through the Megatron.



BTW, where can you order USB C cables from VE? I don't see them on the VECLAN site or theit AE store. The Megatron is a fantastic piece of gear. Incredible value and in some situations, rigs/chains, or pairings it can do things I haven't heard anything else do. I actually plugged the line out from the Megatron into my Ferrum Oor/Hypsos stack the other day because I wanted to hear that combo with my ZMFs in particular. I've done it a few more times since then because with certain kinds of rock and blues it makes the VCs sound gorgeously lush, like the aural version of kickin' back in your favorite recliner with a warm blanket.


----------



## Ronion

Unfortunately you have to contact them and they'll give you instructions to send them money via PayPal.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> Unfortunately you have to contact them and they'll give you instructions to send them money via PayPal.



That works. I'll shoot them an email. I'm looking for some kind of intermediate length between the cable I showed you the link for and the short one that comes with the Megatron.


----------



## Ronion

They said they haVE (no pun) 50 and 80cm cables.  I think either of those should work well for general earbudding.  I’m going to build more balanced buds soon.  I’ll replicate my 500Ohm and a couple of the 300Ohm beauties in balanced form.  I have a strange feeling it’s going to have a synergy with all these things.  I haven’t tested it with the FiiO yet, but I’m really hoping the FF5 will be 300Ohm or greater…. I’m probably too much of a dreamer.  A full Be 300Ohm aluminum VC bud tuned by FiiO with a removal cable fed by the Megatron would be the stuff dreams are made of for the fine folks who don’t DIY.  It’s still worth it for the DIYers just for the variety of portable awesome.  They said it would be $150 if I’m not mistaken.  Let a guy dream a day or two before you guys squash it.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> They said they haVE (no pun) 50 and 80cm cables.  I think either of those should work well for general earbudding.  I’m going to build more balanced buds soon.  I’ll replicate my 500Ohm and a couple of the 300Ohm beauties in balanced form.  I have a strange feeling it’s going to have a synergy with all these things.  I haven’t tested it with the FiiO yet, but I’m really hoping the FF5 will be 300Ohm or greater…. I’m probably too much of a dreamer.  A full Be 300Ohm aluminum VC bud tuned by FiiO with a removal cable fed by the Megatron would be the stuff dreams are made of for the fine folks who don’t DIY.  It’s still worth it for the DIYers just for the variety of portable awesome.  They said it would be $150 if I’m not mistaken.  Let a guy dream a day or two before you guys squash it.



My DIY 300ohm LCP buds love the Megatron. They sound downright sultry on that thing!


----------



## Ronion

I have no doubt.


----------



## marmagas

Welcome!


----------



## digititus

marmagas said:


> Welcome!


Right on time (after 11.11 and Black Friday)


----------



## o0genesis0o

Look at the amount of venting. Epic stage?


----------



## fooltoque

o0genesis0o said:


> Look at the amount of venting. Epic stage?


Whoah, it's not even December yet! 
I'm even super excited about the 6 anti-slip rings!


----------



## fooltoque

marmagas said:


> Welcome!



It says this is your 1st post after almost 10 years of lurking! Nice one to start with xD


----------



## o0genesis0o

fooltoque said:


> Whoah, it's not even December yet!
> I'm even super excited about the 6 anti-slip rings!



Interesting to see that they switch from beryllium to DLC (?) for the cone, given how much they make a big deal out of beryllium in the past.


----------



## marmagas

@fooltoque slow learner!


----------



## BCool (Nov 28, 2022)

Wasn't expecting a completely different design to the FF3. There's no way the sound signature will be similar right?

Edit - Quote from the product page:


> Compared to the FF3 with its emphasis on low and mid frequencies, the FF5 features a faster sound with better separation. Thanks to the carbon-based diaphragm, mid and treble resolution is also greatly improved for more detailed and nuanced vocals. This is especially noticeable in female vocals – when listening to music with a heavy vocal emphasis, you will be able to hear every last detail of refreshingly lush vocals.



Kinda disappointed as I want to buy an FF3 with detachable cables.


----------



## sofastreamer

regarding the ff3, when i got them i liked them best with the ve monk foams.  But as someone of you suggested, i tried the bass foams a feww days ago and wow. these are still not muffled, inoffensive and great soundstage. I own an oppo pm2, Sony z1r, LCD i3, 64audio u8 etc. but keep coming back to the ff3 every day, as they give me the most out of head experiance while beeing still "hifi" enough for me. This paired with exceptional comfort makes it my number one edc headphone at the moment.

So please tell me, if there is a real upgrade in every regard. Someone posted a measurement where he compares the ff3 with his favorite bud, which is (as he said) the only bud, that is able to reach deeper in subbass. But he didnt mention which bud his favorite is.and If i could make my dream bud it would be like this:
- Bass: Fiio FF3 / LCD-i3 / Z1R (reaching deep but not overblown, low on midbass)
- Mids: VE Monks / Oriolus MK2 (slightly warm, smooth and lush)
- Treble: Fiio EM5 / AKG K701 (silky smooth, good resolution, slight roll off)
- Soundstage / Imaging: FF3 / EM5 / 64audio U8
Most important: I absolutly hate if any frequency above 1000Hz is emphasized. Yes, i like it best, when everything above 1000hz is dipped/ rolled of what ever. (
I like my sound to be boring, inoffensive, wothout bite, shimmer, glare or sparkle. 
Any suggestions if money, but EQ also are no concerns?


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Interesting to see that they switch from beryllium to DLC (?) for the cone, given how much they make a big deal out of beryllium in the past.


There are good reasons to switch.  They don’t say, or maybe I missed it, but if it is DLC, CNT, or some other Carbon based cone, they have a sound to them that’s very nice and pleasing.  They are sort of the opposite of the Blue PET.  The treble is fatigue free but resolute.  You don’t have to hope for burn in, foams softening, brain burn in, or anything like that.  They come out of the package warm and resolved, tight yet inviting like they know with absolute certainty what they are doing.  This could be a brilliant move by FiiO.  I still want more detail on this bud, so I’m going to seek it out.  Those Carbon Cones don’t nervously slap you in the face with 9” of treble until you submit to their superiority out of fear for another lashing.  They invite you in and ask you how your day was, cook you dinner, give you a message, then light some candles, and turn off the lights.  Next thing you know your face is surrounded by a long mane of hair which is so intimate, but the depth of your soundstage is deeper than you could ever imagine, and you sway to the rhythm comfortably devoid of awkwardness.  You succumb to this warm invitation that tickles your ear in a way you find irresistible.  You quickly grow deeply addicted to it and voluntarily return for more.  Endlessly yearning for it, you question why you ever went anywhere else to be slapped around by Audiophilia Nervosa’s aggression when you have something warm but tight, intimate yet expansive, soft and golden with strength, depth, and resolve just waiting to cook you dinner.


----------



## Ronion (Nov 28, 2022)

Oh, they also talk about it being brighter and female vocal oriented….. `That’s not for me. :frowning2:`
I’ll reserve judgement until I hear @JAnonymous5150 sing How Deep is You Love through these things.

I find it interesting that they didn’t post response graphs on this one yet.


----------



## FranQL

Ronion said:


> Oh, they also talk about it being brighter and female vocal oriented….. `That’s not for me. :frowning2:`
> I’ll reserve judgement until I hear @JAnonymous5150 sing How Deep is You Love through these things.
> 
> I find it interesting that they didn’t post response graphs on this one yet.



I really run away from female poison, it terrifies me.....


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Nov 28, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Oh, they also talk about it being brighter and female vocal oriented….. `That’s not for me. :frowning2:`
> I’ll reserve judgement until I hear @JAnonymous5150 sing How Deep is You Love through these things.
> 
> I find it interesting that they didn’t post response graphs on this one yet.



I just ordered it from the Fiio Store on AE for $129.99. Based on what they're saying about the different driver and the tuning changes, I'm definitely concerned that it won't be my cup of tea. However, I have a pretty wide range of sound sigs and tunings that I appreciate and with Fiio knocking the FF3 out of the park like they did, this was always going to be a blind buy for me.

Edit: No earbud can adequately reproduce my dulcet tones. I could make you cry tears of joy in mere seconds...


----------



## FranQL

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Edit: No earbud can adequately reproduce my dulcet tones. I could make you cry tears of joy in mere seconds...



I love marketing

you will be able to hear every last detail of the refreshingly lush vocals and give yourself a boner


----------



## JAnonymous5150

FranQL said:


> I love marketing
> 
> you will be able to hear every last detail of the refreshingly lush vocals and give yourself a boner



Then the fine print: *Boner not guaranteed.*


----------



## digititus

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I just ordered it from the Fiio Store on AE for $129.99. Based on what they're saying about the different driver and the tuning changes, I'm definitely concerned that it won't be my cup of tea.


Thanks for taking one for the team! Will be interested in your impressions.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Nov 28, 2022)

digititus said:


> Thanks for taking one for the team! Will be interested in your impressions.



No problem. My plan was always to grab the FF5 anyways. The FF3 was so good that my curiosity won't allow me to not try the FF5. Even if I waited and it got horrible reviews, the curious side of me would still want to hear it with my own ears.

I'm surprised that they went with a new driver. Some comments that a Fiio customer service rep made to me over email when I asked about the FF5s a couple months back had me expecting a retune of the same driver used in the FF3. Given the performance of the FF3, I would've been perfectly happy if that was the case, but now we're travelling into brand new territory and it sounds like the FF5 won't be sharing many attributes with the FF3. Oh well, fingers crossed that the FF5s are awesome as well! 🤞🙏


----------



## digititus

JAnonymous5150 said:


> No problem. My plan was always to grab the FF5 anyways. The FF3 was so good that my curiosity won't allow me to not try the FF5. Even if I waited and it got horrible reviews, the curious side of me would still want to hear it with my own ears.
> 
> I'm surprised that they went with a new driver. Some comments that a Fiio customer service rep made to me over email when I asked about the FF5s a couple months back had me expecting a retune of the same driver used in the FF3. Given the performance of the FF3, I would've been perfectly happy if that was the case, but now we're travelling into brand new territory and it sounds like the FF5 won't be sharing many attributes with the FF3. Oh well, fingers crossed that the FF5s are awesome as well! 🤞🙏


The description sounds more like a revamped EM5 than FF3. Only time will tell.


----------



## taropaste

JAnonymous5150 said:


> No problem. My plan was always to grab the FF5 anyways.









BTW, Ali's cyber Monday discount code works for the FF5. It's "15DEAL". Not huge discount but if you're buying them already might as well save a few bucks.


----------



## mochill

US $129.99 | FiiO FF5 Detachable cable carbon-based dynamic driver earbuds
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mO9rOze


----------



## JAnonymous5150

taropaste said:


> BTW, Ali's cyber Monday discount code works for the FF5. It's "15DEAL". Not huge discount but if you're buying them already might as well save a few bucks.



I should have mentioned that, but I used a different code that wouldn't let me use that one because I bought some other things as well and qualified for a bigger discount.

Which reminds me, for anyone who's interested, I also picked up the Toneking Black Manbas so I could see how they stack up with the Viridis.


----------



## feverfive

BCool said:


> Wasn't expecting a completely different design to the FF3. There's no way the sound signature will be similar right?
> 
> Edit - Quote from the product page:
> 
> ...


Same.

I just ordered a pair, LOL; I figured for not quite $125 all-in (including tax & shipping, thanks to $15 discount), why not.


----------



## Ronion

FranQL said:


> I really run away from female poison, it terrifies me.....


I get enough of it at home 😜


JAnonymous5150 said:


> I just ordered it from the Fiio Store on AE for $129.99. Based on what they're saying about the different driver and the tuning changes, I'm definitely concerned that it won't be my cup of tea. However, I have a pretty wide range of sound sigs and tunings that I appreciate and with Fiio knocking the FF3 out of the park like they did, this was always going to be a blind buy for me.
> 
> Edit: No earbud can adequately reproduce my dulcet tones. I could make you cry tears of joy in mere seconds...





FranQL said:


> I love marketing
> 
> you will be able to hear every last detail of the refreshingly lush vocals and give yourself a boner





JAnonymous5150 said:


> Then the fine print: *Boner not guaranteed.*


You guys have my stomach aching from laughing so hard.  That was great.


----------



## rkw

o0genesis0o said:


> Interesting to see that they switch from beryllium to DLC (?) for the cone, given how much they make a big deal out of beryllium in the past.


Doesn't matter what material they use, they will always say it's the best thing ever. It's what you do to sell the product.


----------



## samandhi

BCool said:


> Wasn't expecting a completely different design to the FF3. There's no way the sound signature will be similar right?
> 
> Edit - Quote from the product page:
> 
> ...





Ronion said:


> There are good reasons to switch.  They don’t say, or maybe I missed it, but if it is DLC, CNT, or some other Carbon based cone, they have a sound to them that’s very nice and pleasing.  They are sort of the opposite of the Blue PET.  The treble is fatigue free but resolute.  You don’t have to hope for burn in, foams softening, brain burn in, or anything like that.  They come out of the package warm and resolved, tight yet inviting like they know with absolute certainty what they are doing.  This could be a brilliant move by FiiO.  I still want more detail on this bud, so I’m going to seek it out.  Those Carbon Cones don’t nervously slap you in the face with 9” of treble until you submit to their superiority out of fear for another lashing.  They invite you in and ask you how your day was, cook you dinner, give you a message, then light some candles, and turn off the lights.  Next thing you know your face is surrounded by a long mane of hair which is so intimate, but the depth of your soundstage is deeper than you could ever imagine, and you sway to the rhythm comfortably devoid of awkwardness.  You succumb to this warm invitation that tickles your ear in a way you find irresistible.  You quickly grow deeply addicted to it and voluntarily return for more.  Endlessly yearning for it, you question why you ever went anywhere else to be slapped around by Audiophilia Nervosa’s aggression when you have something warm but tight, intimate yet expansive, soft and golden with strength, depth, and resolve just waiting to cook you dinner.





FranQL said:


> I really run away from female poison, it terrifies me.....


I am very concerned about this as well. From the description, it sounds reminds me of the description of one of the Smabat buds that were WAAAAAY overcooked up there... Plus, they also look a bit more cheaply built than the FF3 (IMHO). 

Having said that, I suppose I have to (also) take one for the team (though I am thinking that I might not like them very much, I very much hope that I am wrong):



Spoiler: just ordered








I had already ordered them before I read there was a discount but oh well.


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> I am very concerned about this as well. From the description, it sounds reminds me of the description of one of the Smabat buds that were WAAAAAY overcooked up there... Plus, they also look a bit more cheaply built than the FF3 (IMHO).
> 
> Having said that, I suppose I have to (also) take one for the team (though I am thinking that I might not like them very much, I very much hope that I am wrong):
> 
> ...



Fiio’s house sound for dynamic drivers has always been 10db ear gain  anyway. I think they manage to subdue the midbass while keeping the sub. They seem very proud of treble extension this time, so I’m hopeful. It might be _the_ earbuds for me.


----------



## samandhi

OH! BTW, here is the official release thread for the FF5 if interested: 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...er-earbuds-ff5-is-officially-released.965885/


----------



## fooltoque

I know I said that I was going to wait on reviews and for it to officially come to Japan, but... It was only ~$15 more than what I paid for the FF3s here. If I wait it will probably be a few months plus ~$50 extra. 

Bought. Honestly I am also a bit leery of the description, but I will share in your triumph or in your lamentations.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Fiio’s house sound for dynamic drivers has always been 10db ear gain  anyway. I think they manage to subdue the midbass while keeping the sub. They seem very proud of treble extension this time, so I’m hopeful. It might be _the_ earbuds for me.


I will love it if the treble is extended but am also hopeful that the pina gain is not more obvious than the FF3. Those are right on the line for my ears (though not TOO much).


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> I will love it if the treble is extended but am also hopeful that the pina gain is not more obvious than the FF3. Those are right on the line for my ears (though not TOO much).


FF3 is actually 10dB ear gain. So far, I have only seen Smabat with 20dB ear gain, no one has done like that. 

But yeah, finger crossed. If this thing is also great, Fiio would win 3 high recommendations from me this year. Should publish reviews of some of their bad stuffs first to balance.

Btw, if Fiio knows how fast you guys buy FF5, they wouldn’t even bother to send out review samples


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> FF3 is actually 10dB ear gain. So far, I have only seen Smabat with 20dB ear gain, no one has done like that.
> 
> But yeah, finger crossed. If this thing is also great, Fiio would win 3 high recommendations from me this year. Should publish reviews of some of their bad stuffs first to balance.
> 
> Btw, if Fiio knows how fast you guys buy FF5, they wouldn’t even bother to send out review samples


Yessir! Fingers crossed indeed! 

Looking at their official AE store, there have already been 6 ordered (including mine).


----------



## fooltoque

samandhi said:


> Yessir! Fingers crossed indeed!
> 
> Looking at their official AE store, there have already been 6 ordered (including mine).


I had to buy mine from the Global Hifi store, as the FiiO official store does not ship to Japan.


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> I had already ordered them before I read there was a discount but oh well.


I did the same, but I went back and cancelled my order. Then I did a second order and applied the code.

I did leave FiiO a message on my first order that I was cancelling because I didn't apply the AE discount code.


----------



## mt877

o0genesis0o said:


> Interesting to see that they switch from beryllium to DLC (?) for the cone, given how much they make a big deal out of beryllium in the past.


Yeah, just to shake things up!


----------



## mt877

FranQL said:


> I love marketing
> 
> you will be able to hear every last detail of the refreshingly lush vocals and give yourself a boner


Wow a fix for ED rather than swallowing a pill? I think every guy should jump on getting the FF5 then, sounds better and fixes ED too.


----------



## mt877

I hope the FF5 will have a good fit in my ears with the FiiO UTWS5 True Wireless Bluetooth Earhooks attached to them for those times when I want to go wireless.


----------



## drewbadour

I was hoping FF5 would be similar to FF3 but upgraded because my wallet needs them to be redundant haha
If it turns out they are both good and complementary.... well game over wallet lol!


----------



## Kumonomukou

mt877 said:


> I hope the FF5 will have a good fit in my ears with the FiiO UTWS5 True Wireless Bluetooth Earhooks attached to them for those times when I want to go wireless.


I normally add MMCX to 2pin(vise versa) adapter as extension when pairing with Bluetooth Earhooks. A bit more comfortable and stable for me.


----------



## Ronion

I seriously wish they had posted at least 1 good graph: let us really know the tuning. A picture is worth a thousand words, but they chose a thousand words.  Of course I understand the last graph cause more confusion than constructive questioning, so maybe they are just disinclined to acquiesce my nerdly desires.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> I seriously wish they had posted at least 1 good graph: let us really know the tuning. A picture is worth a thousand words, but they chose a thousand words.  Of course I understand the last graph cause more confusion than constructive questioning, so maybe they are just disinclined to acquiesce my nerdly desires.


bud graphs are messy and potentially misleading anyway. Perhaps it’s for the best


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> bud graphs are messy and potentially misleading anyway. Perhaps it’s for the best


I don't find earbud graphs in any way unusual compared to any other headphone graphs.  Their FF3 graph is spot on and the only reason I bought the bud.  I knew exactly what I was getting from a tuning perspective.  No doubt they measured this one with the same level of accuracy.  With that shell design you would think they have a smaller pinna gain and not a lot of deep bass, but who knows what's actually going on inside that shell.  Their description is so vague it might be included in their patent LOL.


----------



## mt877

Kumonomukou said:


> I normally add MMCX to 2pin(vise versa) adapter as extension when pairing with Bluetooth Earhooks. A bit more comfortable and stable for me.


The FF5 has a stem, so maybe an adapter might make them too long? The FiiO UTWS5 has a somewhat long hook, so combined with the stem length of the FF5 might make for a poor fit for my ears. I'm really hoping FiiO designed the FF5 to match up with the UTWS5 earhooks perfectly.


----------



## fooltoque

mt877 said:


> The FF5 has a stem, so maybe an adapter might make them too long? The FiiO UTWS5 has a somewhat long hook, so combined with the stem length of the FF5 might make for a poor fit for my ears. I'm really hoping FiiO designed the FF5 to match up with the UTWS5 earhooks perfectly.



I'd really like to try out those UTWS5. I'm concerned about fit though. If they are paired with an IEM, any slight misalignment would be born by the pressure of the ear canal on the silicone tips. But in the case of flatheads, unless the fit is perfect, it looks like the earhooks would constantly pull the buds out of the sweet spot. How is your experience?


----------



## dsonance (Nov 29, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Yessir! Fingers crossed indeed!
> 
> Looking at their official AE store, there have already been 6 ordered (including mine).


Ordered one as well. Along with the 80 Ohm LCP @JAnonymous5150 has been shilling, the white RY4S Plus, and the iBasso DC06 for good measure. 

Got to use the 40DEAL code, for $40 off $220+ orders.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

dsonance said:


> Ordered one as well. Along with the 80 Ohm LCP @JAnonymous5150 has been shilling, the white RY4S Plus, and the iBasso DC06 for good measure.
> 
> Got to use the 40DEAL code, for $40 off $220+ orders.



Hey! I have been *recommending* it. I don't shill anything. At least, not until NSC starts offering up some kick backs. I mean, I must have sold like 10 of these so far...😜

Edit: I'll be interested to see what you think of the FF5s. We can compare notes.


----------



## mt877

fooltoque said:


> I'd really like to try out those UTWS5. I'm concerned about fit though. If they are paired with an IEM, any slight misalignment would be born by the pressure of the ear canal on the silicone tips. But in the case of flatheads, unless the fit is perfect, it looks like the earhooks would constantly pull the buds out of the sweet spot. How is your experience?


Here's a pic of my UTWS5 and Yincrow RW-3000.







Once I put them on, they stay in place. It is not a perfect fit though, there's space behind the battery / bluetooth compartments that go behind the ears. If I had a very small mmcx length spacer / adapter to go between the buds and the UTWS5 it would be perfect. The UTWS5 is so light with little mass that they don't influence the positioning or pull the buds out of position. The earhooks are flexible and can be somewhat shaped for your ears, but if you go too crazy they might not fit back in the charging case. I guess it would depend on how much you distort them out of 'normal' shape.

Since the FF5 has a stem, you could imagine the transducer housing would be closer to the battery / bluetooth compartments, but when you put them on, those rear compartments would just rotate a little further behind your ears. At least that is how I'm imagining they would be. So I hope the FF5 stem is the perfect length, not too long that it's troublesome to fit.

Your comment about IEM fit is true. I have no problem if I attach my Sony IER-M9, but if I try an IEM that is more like a bullet shape like my Intime Kira, then I have trouble. The Kira is too short and I can't fit them properly.

BTW, the UTWS5 and RW-3000 sound great together. Great for when I'm on the go and don't want any 'entanglements' so to speak.


----------



## dsonance

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hey! I have been *recommending* it. I don't shill anything. At least, not until NSC starts offering up some kick backs. I mean, I must have sold like 10 of these so far...😜


Just doing my part to make NSC aware of your efforts. It's really not right they have their most successful N. America salesperson working for free. 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> Edit: I'll be interested to see what you think of the FF5s. We can compare notes.


For sure. In the meantime, I'm settling down for a long wait: mine isn't expected to arrive until almost Christmas.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Nov 29, 2022)

dsonance said:


> Just doing my part to make NSC aware of your efforts. It's really not right they have their most successful N. America salesperson working for free.
> 
> For sure. In the meantime, I'm settling down for a long wait: mine isn't expected to arrive until almost Christmas.



Yeah, mine is showing December 20th as the estimated date, but I pretty much always recieve my purchases before the estimated date. With a bigger company like Fiio we can at least be confident that they have plenty of units ready to ship so there shouldn't be any of the supply side delays and hang-ups you can encounter with the more boutique manufacturers. Fingers crossed that it'll be quick! 🤞

Edit: FWIW I ordered my FF3s a couple days after they dropped and they came quickly.


----------



## mt877

dsonance said:


> For sure. In the meantime, I'm settling down for a long wait: mine isn't expected to arrive until almost Christmas.


I think FiiO released the FF5 as a last minute decision so that people who bought them now would receive them just before Christmas. Maybe that would explain why FiiO hasn't released any further FF5 information. Their main website and AE store are both lacking FF5 pictures and specs which I think they will eventually release.


----------



## fooltoque

mt877 said:


> Here's a pic of my UTWS5 and Yincrow RW-3000.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the description. They don't look particularly light, so I expected they would tug quite a bit. I also didn't realize they could be shaped. That does sound more promising. After my FF5s come in I'll see if I'm able to demo them directly with the FF5s at the local store. I see they have them in stock (for 22,000yen  ).


----------



## drewbadour

fooltoque said:


> Thanks for the description. They don't look particularly light, so I expected they would tug quite a bit. I also didn't realize they could be shaped. That does sound more promising. After my FF5s come in I'll see if I'm able to demo them directly with the FF5s at the local store. I see they have them in stock (for 22,000yen  ).


Can confirm that they are incredibly light. Lighter than any cable, and certainly lighter than anything I've hooked up to them!

I may have also bought the FF5 lol ... Can check fit when they arrive (hopefully soon)


----------



## sofastreamer (Nov 29, 2022)

the very first anouncement showed a black ff5 with detechable cable that had the same housing as the ff3. You can still find the pix an google. I bet they read, that some people wrote, that the em5 is still much more resolving then the ff3 and they decided "over night" to go another way with the ff5. just speculations tho.

this will be a bright unforgiving phone for sure. too bad, i would have paid up to 800 usd for a more refined FF3 in a heartbeat...


----------



## drewbadour

sofastreamer said:


> the very first anouncement showed a black ff5 with detechable cable that had the same housing as the ff3. You can still find the pix an google. I bet they read, that some people wrote, that the em5 is still much more resolving then the ff3 and they decided "over night" to go another way with the ff5. just speculations tho.
> 
> this will be a bright unforgiving phone for sure. too bad, i would have paid up to 800 usd for a more refined FF3 in a heartbeat...


Well with 18 of them ordered already and no more information from Fiio themselves, there's no use jumping to conclusions! We'll know soon enough!


----------



## silverszi

Has NSC been really slow on shipping for anyone else?

I think I know why but everything else shipped already and it's been 5 days.


----------



## mt877 (Nov 29, 2022)

fooltoque said:


> Thanks for the description. They don't look particularly light, so I expected they would tug quite a bit. I also didn't realize they could be shaped. That does sound more promising. After my FF5s come in I'll see if I'm able to demo them directly with the FF5s at the local store. I see they have them in stock (for 22,000yen  ).


If you've dealt with mmcx connections before then you know they can be very tight and hard to pull apart. My tip is to have a firm grasp of both sides and pull straight out, do not twist. One of the problems is that many mmcx cable connectors are small and hard to grasp firmly unless you have some rubber to wrap around the connector. A wide rubber band or cut up an old dishwashing rubber glove will work. Definitely do not try to rock the connector back and forth because you can damage / break the small center pin. There's also a small tool that is available to separate mmcx connections which probably the best way to go. (I don't have one of those tools though.)

The reason I'm mentioning this is because if you can demo the UTWS5, that's great... but you may have a heck of a time removing the FF5 afterwards, so hopefully the store you go to will have a tool or you need to be prepared.






FiiO has their own mmcx assist tool that they give away with some of their IEMs. They don't include the tool with the UTWS5 though. Maybe modify an old guitar pick with a circular notch would work?





Photo credits: https://moonstarreviews.net/fiio-fd3-dynamic-driver-iem-review/


----------



## JAnonymous5150

silverszi said:


> Has NSC been really slow on shipping for anyone else?
> 
> I think I know why but everything else shipped already and it's been 5 days.



I have never had problems with them and I've actually ordered from NSC many times. I'm guessing things are probably a bit busier and bit slower because of BF/CM sales and such.


----------



## povidlo

FF5 is appealing for sure. I just got FF3 last week from 11.11 sale. Doesn't sound like any other earbud I've heard. Very engaging! Thanks to everyone who hyped them up, they're worth it.

Though, I'm having an issue with not being able to unscrew 3.5mm connector to replace with 4.4mm. Any tips on this?


----------



## mt877

povidlo said:


> FF5 is appealing for sure. I just got FF3 last week from 11.11 sale. Doesn't sound like any other earbud I've heard. Very engaging! Thanks to everyone who hyped them up, they're worth it.
> 
> Though, I'm having an issue with not being able to unscrew 3.5mm connector to replace with 4.4mm. Any tips on this?


Hold the TRS plug (gold color) section with one hand. Turn the long silver barrel with the etched knurling with the other hand (lefty - loosey / righty - tighty). The long silver barrel will unscrew toward the cable.


----------



## povidlo

mt877 said:


> Hold the TRS plug (gold color) section with one hand. Turn the long silver barrel with the etched knurling with the other hand (lefty - loosey / righty - tighty). The long silver barrel will unscrew toward the cable.


Thanks. Been trying that based on manual but the barrel keeps turning with cable and doesn't separate. I'm thinking maybe a drop of olive oil would loosen the connection?


----------



## drewbadour (Nov 29, 2022)

povidlo said:


> FF5 is appealing for sure. I just got FF3 last week from 11.11 sale. Doesn't sound like any other earbud I've heard. Very engaging! Thanks to everyone who hyped them up, they're worth it.
> 
> Though, I'm having an issue with not being able to unscrew 3.5mm connector to replace with 4.4mm. Any tips on this?


You just have to pull on it, it's not a screw in! Careful not to torque it too much or you might break the pins haha.
Edit: The connector cover is screw on, ignore this please!


----------



## mt877 (Nov 29, 2022)

Edit: Double post


----------



## mt877

povidlo said:


> Thanks. Been trying that based on manual but the barrel keeps turning with cable and doesn't separate. I'm thinking maybe a drop of olive oil would loosen the connection?



Don't use oil, it will only attract dirt later. Also, oil can become gummy and cause other problems. Use 2 pieces of rubber (kitchen rubber gloves) and grab the plug and the long barrel and give a twist to break it free.



drewbadour said:


> You just have to pull on it, it's not a screw in! Careful not to torque it too much or you might break the pins haha.


Don't do that, it is definitely screwed on. See the exposed threads?






Here's how it looks closed.


----------



## drewbadour

Oh whoops sorry - was recalling a different cable haha 🤦‍♂️

It is tough to pull out after unscrewed though


----------



## mt877

drewbadour said:


> Oh whoops sorry - was recalling a different cable haha 🤦‍♂️
> 
> It is tough to pull out after unscrewed though


That's the truth. Also be sure to align the detent with the slot on the barrel of the plug. I guess some people have forced the plug on somehow without aligning the detent and the slot. Big trouble then.


----------



## samandhi

dsonance said:


> For sure. In the meantime, I'm settling down for a long wait: mine isn't expected to arrive until almost Christmas.





JAnonymous5150 said:


> Yeah, mine is showing December 20th as the estimated date, but I pretty much always recieve my purchases before the estimated date.


Yeah, mine are due the 21st, but (like you) I usually receive them a couple to few weeks earlier than that (now that shipping has gotten more back to its normal times). 


mt877 said:


> If you've dealt with mmcx connections before then you know they can be very tight and hard to pull apart. My tip is to have a firm grasp of both sides and pull straight out, do not twist. One of the problems is that many mmcx cable connectors are small and hard to grasp firmly unless you have some rubber to wrap around the connector. A wide rubber band or cut up an old dishwashing rubber glove will work. Definitely do not try to rock the connector back and forth because you can damage / break the small center pin. There's also a small tool that is available to separate mmcx connections which probably the best way to go. (I don't have one of those tools though.)
> 
> The reason I'm mentioning this is because if you can demo the UTWS5, that's great... but you may have a heck of a time removing the FF5 afterwards, so hopefully the store you go to will have a tool or you need to be prepared.
> 
> ...


Great tips! 
I got one of those tools with my Timeless IEMs (it was taped to the box)... They are really cheap on AE too. But normally I will just get my fingernail in between the seam and push in and up (away from the driver), and it comes right off with ease. Now if you don't have ANY fingernails this tip will not work for you (they don't have to be very long at all. It just won't work for those fingernail biters ).


----------



## samandhi

BTW, for those that aren't following the official FiiO FF5 thread here are the specs.



			
				FiiO said:
			
		

> Dear friend,
> 
> Impedance: 45Ω@1kHz
> Sensitivity: 106dB/mW@1kHz
> ...


----------



## povidlo

mt877 said:


> Don't use oil, it will only attract dirt later. Also, oil can become gummy and cause other problems. Use 2 pieces of rubber (kitchen rubber gloves) and grab the plug and the long barrel and give a twist to break it free.
> 
> 
> Don't do that, it is definitely screwed on. See the exposed threads?
> ...


Rubber gloves did the trick, thank you very much!


----------



## mt877

povidlo said:


> Rubber gloves did the trick, thank you very much!


Nice! Yeah, those good ole' rubber gloves provide that extra traction that our skin just doesn't have, also good for cracking open stuck lids from jars...


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Yeah, mine are due the 21st, but (like you) I usually receive them a couple to few weeks earlier than that (now that shipping has gotten more back to its normal times).
> 
> Great tips!
> I got one of those tools with my Timeless IEMs (it was taped to the box)... They are really cheap on AE too. But normally I will just get my fingernail in between the seam and push in and up (away from the driver), and it comes right off with ease. Now if you don't have ANY fingernails this tip will not work for you (they don't have to be very long at all. It just won't work for those fingernail biters ).


7Hz planar? I got those and didn't get any free tool. Would have been nice. Oh well.


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> BTW, for those that aren't following the official FiiO FF5 thread here are the specs.


there goes @Ronion ‘s dream of 300ohm Fiio


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> there goes @Ronion ‘s dream of 300ohm Fiio


My heart sank.  My hope was that they were shooting for the Nth degree of earbuds.  Who knows, the ff3 does punch above its weight class in terms of resolution, soundstage and timbre.  I’m not sure what my next premade bud will be.  It could be the FF5 depending on what others say about it.  Maybe it will be the FF7 they just announced…


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> My heart sank.  My hope was that they were shooting for the Nth degree of earbuds.  Who knows, the ff3 does punch above its weight class in terms of resolution, soundstage and timbre.  I’m not sure what my next premade bud will be.  It could be the FF5 depending on what others say about it.  Maybe it will be the FF7 they just announced…


The name of the game is sensitivity nowadays, right? Most manufacturers, including (and especially) Fiio, know that the future is wireless and DSP, no matter how much we "audiophile" kick and cry. Even Hifiman tries to make their planar headphones sensitive enough to pair with a decent but tiny on-board amp (Deva and Ananda bluetooth). The sweet spot 45ohm might be just right for TWS adapters like UTWS5.

To be fair, as much as I love my beefy DAC/AMP, something like Fiio JD7 that drives perfectly out or moderate portable gear like AP80 Pro X is so lovely. Meanwhile, something like Serratus requires sitting down with my full-sized portable gears, as smaller dongles fail to drive it properly even with balanced. It's kinda annoying.


----------



## drewbadour (Nov 29, 2022)

Ronion said:


> My heart sank.  My hope was that they were shooting for the Nth degree of earbuds.  Who knows, the ff3 does punch above its weight class in terms of resolution, soundstage and timbre.  I’m not sure what my next premade bud will be.  It could be the FF5 depending on what others say about it.  Maybe it will be the FF7 they just announced…


They announced an FF7??

(be still my beating heart)


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> 7Hz planar? I got those and didn't get any free tool. Would have been nice. Oh well.


It seems as though they began shipping with those about the same time they changed the default filter they came with.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> My heart sank.  My hope was that they were shooting for the Nth degree of earbuds.  Who knows, the ff3 does punch above its weight class in terms of resolution, soundstage and timbre.  I’m not sure what my next premade bud will be.  It could be the FF5 depending on what others say about it.  Maybe it will be the FF7 they just announced…



Where did this FF7 announcement happen?


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Where did this FF7 announcement happen?


In a land far away... only in the mind of @Ronion


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> It seems as though they began shipping with those about the same time they changed the default filter they came with.


Ah, ok. I waited for the dust to settle on the 7Hz, so they came with the now standard silver filter when I got them, but no tool. Anyway no worries about the tool.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> Ah, ok. I waited for the dust to settle on the 7Hz, so they came with the now standard silver filter when I got them, but no tool. Anyway no worries about the tool.



You can get the mmcx tools for a couple bucks off AliExpress if you want one. They're actually quite handy. I'm not sure what mine original tool came included with, but I actually purchased a few more so I have one in each of the accessory stashes where I listen to IEM and buds most often. I don't even have that many mmcx cables/transducers because I prefer the 2-pin stuff, but the mmcx tools are definitely worth a few bucks to make life easier.


----------



## Oscarilbo

Hi guys. Hope you’re having a great night. I just received the Chaconne and OMG. Crystal clear on my Schiit stack. Just a question: how can I tell right from left? haha


----------



## yaps66

mt877 said:


> If you've dealt with mmcx connections before then you know they can be very tight and hard to pull apart. My tip is to have a firm grasp of both sides and pull straight out, do not twist. One of the problems is that many mmcx cable connectors are small and hard to grasp firmly unless you have some rubber to wrap around the connector. A wide rubber band or cut up an old dishwashing rubber glove will work. Definitely do not try to rock the connector back and forth because you can damage / break the small center pin. There's also a small tool that is available to separate mmcx connections which probably the best way to go. (I don't have one of those tools though.)
> 
> The reason I'm mentioning this is because if you can demo the UTWS5, that's great... but you may have a heck of a time removing the FF5 afterwards, so hopefully the store you go to will have a tool or you need to be prepared.
> 
> ...


The first one (green colour in the picture) is the way to go.  The connector just pops out!


----------



## yaps66

mt877 said:


> Nice! Yeah, those good ole' rubber gloves provide that extra traction that our skin just doesn't have, also good for cracking open stuck lids from jars...


Great life hack!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Oscarilbo said:


> Hi guys. Hope you’re having a great night. I just received the Chaconne and OMG. Crystal clear on my Schiit stack. Just a question: how can I tell right from left? haha



I don't have a pair anymore, but I seem to remember the vents at the bottom of the shell could be felt to tell which side is which because they're supposed to be oriented in a specific direction. It has been months since I had them and when I did I was trying a ton of high end earbuds. I'll see if I can find what I'm talking about by googling it because that's all I can remember off the top of my head.


----------



## Oscarilbo

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I don't have a pair anymore, but I seem to remember the vents at the bottom of the shell could be felt to tell which side is which because they're supposed to be oriented in a specific direction. It has been months since I had them and when I did I was trying a ton of high end earbuds. I'll see if I can find what I'm talking about by googling it because that's all I can remember off the top of my head.


Oh thank you so much. Curiously that many great reviews on these but dont tend to mention this “issue”. 

I see the vents but see them perfrctly symmetrical. Maybe those aren’t the ones you are referring to


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> The name of the game is sensitivity nowadays, right? Most manufacturers, including (and especially) Fiio, know that the future is wireless and DSP, no matter how much we "audiophile" kick and cry. Even Hifiman tries to make their planar headphones sensitive enough to pair with a decent but tiny on-board amp (Deva and Ananda bluetooth). The sweet spot 45ohm might be just right for TWS adapters like UTWS5.
> 
> To be fair, as much as I love my beefy DAC/AMP, something like Fiio JD7 that drives perfectly out or moderate portable gear like AP80 Pro X is so lovely. Meanwhile, something like Serratus requires sitting down with my full-sized portable gears, as smaller dongles fail to drive it properly even with balanced. It's kinda annoying.


Yeah, it sort of stinks.  My 500 and 600 Ohm buds really do their best on less portable amplification.  Their SQ is mind-blowing, but their portability is not optimal.  Listening to them through a dongle, even though they are still very good, they are not on the level of when they are powered properly--well the 600 anyway.


drewbadour said:


> They announced an FF7??
> 
> (be still my beating heart)


Nah, I was just joking/hoping.


JAnonymous5150 said:


> Where did this FF7 announcement happen?


It was just me being stupid


mt877 said:


> In a land far away... only in the mind of @Ronion


Bingo!  But, we can hope.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Oscarilbo said:


> Oh thank you so much. Curiously that many great reviews on these but dont tend to mention this “issue”.
> 
> I see the vents but see them perfrctly symmetrical. Maybe those aren’t the ones you are referring to



I could totally be remembering wrong though. I only owned them for about a month before I resold them. I'm still workin' on finding an answer for you. I would imagine one of the guys on here that still owns a pair will come by and help you out even if I haven't found an answer though.


----------



## Ronion

Oscarilbo said:


> Hi guys. Hope you’re having a great night. I just received the Chaconne and OMG. Crystal clear on my Schiit stack. Just a question: how can I tell right from left? haha




And then find some way to mark it.  You'd think it would be easier than that however.


----------



## dsonance

Oscarilbo said:


> Hi guys. Hope you’re having a great night. I just received the Chaconne and OMG. Crystal clear on my Schiit stack. Just a question: how can I tell right from left? haha


According to the MoondropLab, there is a concave ring indentation on the left side earbud stem: https://moondroplab.com/en/products/chaconne 

(The part of the English page describing that  doesn't load correctly in my browser at the moment, but the one in Chinese does: https://moondroplab.com/cn/products/chaconne)


----------



## mt877

Re: FF7

Have you guys noticed the number naming schemes from many Asian companies?

From cameras to DAPs to IEMs.... for example they often start with "3" series with simple features. Next a "5" series which includes all the features of "3" and throws in other features. "7" series always above the mid-tier "5" series with better hardware like faster cpu, better display, etc. Then you get to the "9" series which signifies "Pro" level, costs more, but also  means latest hardware, built like a tank, and so on. Then of course the ultimate... the "1" series. The "1" series is always the most expensive. Most luxurious build and craftsmanship, leather cases, TOTL hardware, gold solder and so on.

Anyway, if this naming scheme continues within FiiO, which they do use this sort of naming, there could very well be an FF7 earbud in a couple years.


----------



## drewbadour

Ronion said:


> Yeah, it sort of stinks.  My 500 and 600 Ohm buds really do their best on less portable amplification.  Their SQ is mind-blowing, but their portability is not optimal.  Listening to them through a dongle, even though they are still very good, they are not on the level of when they are powered properly--well the 600 anyway.
> 
> Nah, I was just joking/hoping.
> 
> ...


I bet if ff5 sales are great, they make an ff7 🤔


----------



## Oscarilbo

dsonance said:


> According to the MoondropLab, there is a concave ring indentation on the left side earbud stem: https://moondroplab.com/en/products/chaconne
> 
> (The part of the English page describing that  doesn't load correctly in my browser at the moment, but the one in Chinese does: https://moondroplab.com/cn/products/chaconne)


Oh that’s right! I got it! how could I miss that. Thank you guys!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

dsonance said:


> According to the MoondropLab, there is a concave ring indentation on the left side earbud stem: https://moondroplab.com/en/products/chaconne
> 
> (The part of the English page describing that  doesn't load correctly in my browser at the moment, but the one in Chinese does: https://moondroplab.com/cn/products/chaconne)



Yup, I remember it now. I was looking at pics of the vents and such with it staring me in the face the whole time. I remembered that it was an elegant tactile solution, but I think I kinda crossed that memory with the vents being used as markers on the ES-P1s. Thanks for setting us straight!


----------



## Ronion

drewbadour said:


> I bet if ff5 sales are great, they make an ff7 🤔


That's what I'm hoping for now.  I mean that I do love the idea of a carbon cone....  Very easy to listen too and still high resolution.  Two of my favorite four 300Ohm drivers are carbon cones.  They all work pretty well off of 1V too.


----------



## Gifting (Nov 30, 2022)

jeejack said:


> Put HS on the drivers and you will like it even more


I suppose HS will elevate the treble and bass a bit more? If so, I might do that with my 150BG DIY driver; I got some HS and W_T_F's incoming (I saw the guide and ranking from @Rary). Might as well put a rivet on it too. I want to hear an "S" tier bud.


JAnonymous5150 said:


> Edit: BTW, I paid for the faster shipping so I should have the white RY4S Plus mmcx pretty soon. I'm interested to see if there is a substantial difference between the white and blue versions regardless of performance against the NSC 80s. Looking forward to checking it out.


I also ordered it. I'm interested to see how it compares to the NiceHCK DIY MX500 earbud, since they share the same drivers. I love that earbud.


o0genesis0o said:


> Interesting to see that they switch from beryllium to DLC (?) for the cone, given how much they make a big deal out of beryllium in the past.


It looks intriguing. I wonder if resolution will be improved overall....it has to be. Maybe it'll be an FF3, but with more resolution and soundstage?

I ordered the NiceHCK B70 last week; I never heard a DLC earbud before and it has really good reviews on Ali (although not much on Head-Fi for some reason). Big fan of their DIY MX500 earbud and enjoy the sparkle it has compared to my other earbuds. Hopefully the B70 is similar but with better technicalities (can only dream).


o0genesis0o said:


> there goes @Ronion ‘s dream of 300ohm Fiio


I ordered one of these babies, to see if there's any difference with them. I doubt it but doesn't hurt to try.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256801541533002.html


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Ah, ok. I waited for the dust to settle on the 7Hz, so they came with the now standard silver filter when I got them, but no tool. Anyway no worries about the tool.


Funny thing is that because of the shape of the Timeless there isn't room to fit the tool in place to even use it... LOL Oh well! It works great for my other sets. 


Oscarilbo said:


> Hi guys. Hope you’re having a great night. I just received the Chaconne and OMG. Crystal clear on my Schiit stack. Just a question: how can I tell right from left? haha


Congrats on your new shiny! I still love mine. 

By now, I see that you have the answer to your question....


----------



## Oscarilbo

samandhi said:


> Funny thing is that because of the shape of the Timeless there isn't room to fit the tool in place to even use it... LOL Oh well! It works great for my other sets.
> 
> Congrats on your new shiny! I still love mine.
> 
> By now, I see that you have the answer to your question....


Yes, thank you! they are amazing. The clarity! They do wonders with my OST collection.

Now, is there any popularly loved foam tips brand, specially for the Chaconne? I feel the stock foams are pretty thin. Something just a tiny bit thicker I think may do better in my ears


----------



## Ronion

Oscarilbo said:


> Yes, thank you! they are amazing. The clarity! They do wonders with my OST collection.
> 
> Now, is there any popularly loved foam tips brand, specially for the Chaconne? I feel the stock foams are pretty thin. Something just a tiny bit thicker I think may do better in my ears


FiiO bass foams are soft an thick.  They may help bring up the perceived low end on the Cachonne as well.  There’s a link in my signature to request them from FiiO as they don’t sell them on their AE page which is a shame.  The regular VE Ex-Pack has some nice ones as well.  They run the gamut from thin to thick.  Then there also HieGi.  HieGi are probably the best made foams but their density will reduce perceived treble in most cases and they are the most expensive. You do get what you pay for however.


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Funny thing is that because of the shape of the Timeless there isn't room to fit the tool in place to even use it... LOL Oh well! It works great for my other sets.


LOL. Someone probably realized (too late) that the mmcx tool didn't work with the Timeless and discontinued giving it away. I don't have loads of gear with mmcx connections so I'm ok with my manual removal technique, but I did order a couple for the audio gear tool kit now.


----------



## Oscarilbo

Ronion said:


> FiiO bass foams are soft an thick.  They may help bring up the perceived low end on the Cachonne as well.  There’s a link in my signature to request them from FiiO as they don’t sell them on their AE page which is a shame.  The regular VE Ex-Pack has some nice ones as well.  They run the gamut from thin to thick.  Then there also HieGi.  HieGi are probably the best made foams but their density will reduce perceived treble in most cases and they are the most expensive. You do get what you pay for however.


Love that the HieGi are white too. Do you think the HieGi may actually sacrifices detail from the Chaconne, or just makes it less direct?


----------



## mt877 (Nov 30, 2022)

Oscarilbo said:


> Love that the HieGi are white too. Do you think the HieGi may actually sacrifices detail from the Chaconne, or just makes it less direct?


HeiGi also has donut foams which would help maintain the details. Some guys have used full foams and punched smaller holes than normal donut foams which is an idea that could work too.

AE link to some I found:
https://www.aliexpress.com/i/2251832567446965.html


----------



## Oscarilbo

mt877 said:


> HeiGi also has donut foams which would help maintain the details.
> 
> AE link to some I found:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/i/2251832567446965.html


Oh that's interesting. Something like a middle ground. I don't mind to making the Chaconne a little bit warmer tho.


----------



## mt877 (Nov 30, 2022)

Oscarilbo said:


> Oh that's interesting. Something like a middle ground. I don't mind to making the Chaconne a little bit warmer tho.


You quoted me before I could finish my edit, lol. Anyway, you could take a full foam and just punch a smaller than normal donut foam sized hole (normal donut is typically 6mm hole with a new unused donut foam). I think that would help with the warmth, but also keep the resolution. Some of the other guys that have modified foams might chime in to confirm.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> You quoted me before I could finish my edit, lol. Anyway, you could take a full foam and just punch a smaller than normal donut foam sized hole (normal donut is typically 6mm hole with a new unused donut foam). I think that would help with the warmth, but also keep the resolution. Some of the other guys that have modified foams might chime in to confirm.



I make some of my own donut foams and, yes, the smaller the hole the more warmth you get. It's actually pretty noticeable with just 1mm differences. The placement of the hole can also have some pretty significant effects on warmth levels and perceived detail as well. With some buds an offset or asymmetric hole placement can have a different overall effect than a centered hole. @assassin10000 has been doing it for much longer than I have (he's the guy who introduced me to the idea) so maybe he has some more specifics or useful knowledge he has picked up.


----------



## Oscarilbo (Nov 30, 2022)

Thank you. It seems a better compromise. Although, I like the the protection against dust a complete foam cover brings. Will a hole in the middle make it more prone to having dust in the inside? I think I may be overreacting a about that


----------



## mt877

Oscarilbo said:


> Love that the HieGi are white too. Do you think the HieGi may actually sacrifices detail from the Chaconne, or just makes it less direct?


After all this discussion you didn't get an answer to your question...

I don't know specifically for Chaconne, but from my experience full thick foams like HieGi foams will typically make upper mids and treble resolution sound rolled off. The degree of the apparent roll off depends on the base tuning of the bud and foams used, the audio source (warm or neutral source) and DSP (if you like P/EQ or other manipulations) and your own hearing and sound preferences. Because of those factors you'll need to find the right combination for harmonious synergy. Not getting into specifics, but I do have a couple buds that sound great with a neutral source and other buds that sound best with a warmer source for example.



Oscarilbo said:


> Thank you. It seems a better compromise. Although, I like the the protection against dust a complete foam cover brings. Will a hole in the middle make it more prone to having dust in the inside ? I think I may be overreacting a about that


I don't think dust will be a concern unless you put the buds in a dusty environment like a construction site not in a storage case. If you leave your buds out on a table at home or office for weeks you won't have problems. I guess it comes down to how you treat your equipment?


----------



## Oscarilbo

Yeah. Thank you for your insight. And I think I'm gonna try both, ringed and complete. In the Chaconne case I personally felt it could use a bit of warmness/darkness, but that may be result of how loose they are on my ears, so I will check both out.


----------



## assassin10000

mt877 said:


> You quoted me before I could finish my edit, lol. Anyway, you could take a full foam and just punch a smaller than normal donut foam sized hole (normal donut is typically 6mm hole with a new unused donut foam). I think that would help with the warmth, but also keep the resolution. Some of the other guys that have modified foams might chime in to confirm.



Yep. Offset donut gives in between a regular donut and full foam.


----------



## ValSuki

So I got the yincrow calf, its ok! 

While being a lovely package for the price and having a nice overall appearance, the earbud is not too shabby at all but I wouldnt claim it over diy's or my own creations. It can get bassy depending on the foam you use, with a nice tonality to the treble but slightly sharp in some parts, so for that i used hiegi foams. Fit? Not bad either, it has some trouble here and there and the shape just does not work over ear, but its a nice idea I hope is perfected overtime. 

Being a tinkerer I am, i cracked one open! Its a Hua speaker inside a custom body. No special tunings here! But not a bad bud at all. Still quite nice though.


----------



## Oscarilbo

assassin10000 said:


> Yep. Offset donut gives in between a regular donut and full foam.


That's pretty interesting. The donut seems to brings the deeper bass. Excuse my ignorance but which one is the "offset"? does it mean without anything?


----------



## assassin10000

Oscarilbo said:


> That's pretty interesting. The donut seems to brings the deeper bass. Excuse my ignorance but which one is the "offset"? does it mean without anything?



I didn't bring the graphs down to better match. But the measurements are kind of opposite of what you actually hear.

In general:
regular donut = brightest/most detail.
Offset = detail with decent bass (less bright)
Full = best bass/most seal but with potentially less highs depending on foam thickness/wear


----------



## drewbadour

ValSuki said:


> So I got the yincrow calf, its ok!
> 
> While being a lovely package for the price and having a nice overall appearance, the earbud is not too shabby at all but I wouldnt claim it over diy's or my own creations. It can get bassy depending on the foam you use, with a nice tonality to the treble but slightly sharp in some parts, so for that i used hiegi foams. Fit? Not bad either, it has some trouble here and there and the shape just does not work over ear, but its a nice idea I hope is perfected overtime.
> 
> Being a tinkerer I am, i cracked one open! Its a Hua speaker inside a custom body. No special tunings here! But not a bad bud at all. Still quite nice though.


your contribution to science is much appreciated! 🖖


----------



## mt877 (Nov 30, 2022)

Oscarilbo said:


> That's pretty interesting. The donut seems to brings the deeper bass. Excuse my ignorance but which one is the "offset"? does it mean without anything?


If you click the graph image it will open and zoom then you can read the text at the bottom of the graph. The red plot is the offset. The "offset" foam is a full foam with a custom punched hole that is off center. A foam with an offset hole can be installed on the bud with the hole more toward your ear canal to help "direct" the sound into your ear for instance. Hope that makes sense. I think @assassin10000 shared a picture here or over at the DIY Earbuds thread in the DIY forum.

Here's a couple pics of a variation on offset holes from this post: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-12914745

Photo credits: @ClieOS











This set of leather punches has been recommended a couple times in this thread to make your own custom donut foams, offset or regular style.

https://www.amazon.com/OWDEN-Professional-6Pcs-Leather-Hollow/dp/B07ZFF143H


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Oscarilbo said:


> Yeah. Thank you for your insight. And I think I'm gonna try both, ringed and complete. In the Chaconne case I personally felt it could use a bit of warmness/darkness, but that may be result of how loose they are on my ears, so I will check both out.



My advice would be to try multiple options. Some earbuds react to foams/donuts differently than you would expect and I have ended up surprised by how well a combination I never would have tried intuitively worked out. Basically I always try at least a couple different full foams and then a donut or two before I decide on what to go with. That has helped me find some combos that I never would have otherwise.


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> My advice would be to try multiple options. Some earbuds react to foams/donuts differently than you would expect and I have ended up surprised by how well a combination I never would have tried intuitively worked out. Basically I always try at least a couple different full foams and then a donut or two before I decide on what to go with. That has helped me find some combos that I never would have otherwise.


This is why I like the VE Ex-Pack.  $5 for a lot of variety and your experience is the same as mine.  It's always nice to have a set of HieGi around as well.  It's amazing to me that they will measure the same months later where other foams warm up quite a bit.  I think their density helps their durability and consistency.  Some buds they will kill the treble, while others they barely affect it measurably.  All of the ones I've tried it on do sound warmer and/or less splashy in the treble.  I don't know that I'd say they reduced resolution really, but they can definitely reduce treble and sometimes a little bit of deep bass (which I think it d/t them holding the bud further from the ear canal than a softer/less dense foam).    Sometimes they are an improvement, sometimes a detriment.  Some of the thin foams cause the bud to measure deeper, but reduce bass weight to where bass is actually less audible.  It's all sort of a trial and error in the end.


----------



## assassin10000

mt877 said:


> I think @assassin10000 shared a picture here or over at the DIY Earbuds thread in the DIY forum.



3mm hole:







4mm hole.








I use that punch set as well now.


----------



## baskingshark

Smabat are crowdfunding some wireless BT earbuds, called the S1. 

14.2 mm LCP DD













https://www.facebook.com/permalink....B9MSpwvuJMWMy86vzC1GL1jB4l&id=100063718818578

I'm not a fan of wireless gear, but maybe some of you folks might be intersted. Ergonomics look a bit sus though.


----------



## Billyak

I can not imagine them staying in your ears. I recently bought some cheap earfun wireless IEMs for the office and walks ect and I am really enjoying the practicalities of a full wireless system but even in iem form they occasionally work themselves loose in my ears so I don't hold much hope for weighty wireless earbuds to just sit in your ear.


----------



## Oscarilbo

mt877 said:


> If you click the graph image it will open and zoom then you can read the text at the bottom of the graph. The red plot is the offset. The "offset" foam is a full foam with a custom punched hole that is off center. A foam with an offset hole can be installed on the bud with the hole more toward your ear canal to help "direct" the sound into your ear for instance. Hope that makes sense. I think @assassin10000 shared a picture here or over at the DIY Earbuds thread in the DIY forum.
> 
> Here's a couple pics of a variation on offset holes from this post: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-12914745
> 
> ...


Thank you! I didn't know one could do that and improve the sound even further. So I guess even a medium hole (as long as is in line with your eardrum) may do it.
Thanks to all for your insights. 
What do you think about the FAAEAL foam tips? I guess they are generic but I won't expect differ much from the VE pack. I'm rooting for white foams for my Chaconne


----------



## Ronion

Oscarilbo said:


> Love that the HieGi are white too. Do you think the HieGi may actually sacrifices detail from the Chaconne, or just makes it less direct?


I forgot to include this quote in my previous message, but I don’t Think you’ll really sacrifice detail per se.  You will most likely get a reduction in treble which could work either way as far as your perception of detail is concerned.  If the treble sounds splashy and overly hashy or nasal, there’s a chance it will actually improve your perception of detail.  Many people do think when they are listening to more treble they are actually hearing more detail, but in reality they are just hearing more treble.  A lot of the earbuds I’ve heard overcook the treble and it often sounds impressive at first, some people can even grow to tolerate it long term through perseverance and self doubt, but in the end, you should enjoy every single recording through your buds.  If you can’t and you have to persevere though several recordings, your buds are likely unbalanced.  Brightness is more likely to cause listener fatigue than anything else and a good set of HieGi may be just what the doctor ordered.  If it sounds too muffled and dull after a few hours of getting acclimated, then perhaps FiiO or VE foams are a better fit.  I want you to enjoy your buds every time you wear them.  Thoroughly enjoy them.  You may have to crack a few dozen eggs to make a great omelet, but if it’s something you enjoy eating for the rest of your life, the process of perfection is well worth it.


----------



## Oscarilbo

Ronion said:


> I forgot to include this quote in my previous message, but I don’t Think you’ll really sacrifice detail per se.  You will most likely get a reduction in treble which could work either way as far as your perception of detail is concerned.  If the treble sounds splashy and overly hashy or nasal, there’s a chance it will actually improve your perception of detail.  Many people do think when they are listening to more treble they are actually hearing more detail, but in reality they are just hearing more treble.  A lot of the earbuds I’ve heard overcook the treble and it often sounds impressive at first, some people can even grow to tolerate it long term through perseverance and self doubt, but in the end, you should enjoy every single recording through your buds.  If you can’t and you have to persevere though several recordings, your buds are likely unbalanced.  Brightness is more likely to cause listener fatigue than anything else and a good set of HieGi may be just what the doctor ordered.  If it sounds too muffled and dull after a few hours of getting acclimated, then perhaps FiiO or VE foams are a better fit.  I want you to enjoy your buds every time you wear them.  Thoroughly enjoy them.  You may have to crack a few dozen eggs to make a great omelet, but if it’s something you enjoy eating for the rest of your life, the process of perfection is well worth it.


Understood. I guess the Chaconne in my case (and eardrums) are a bit on the brighter side, so a touch of darkness may help to bring them to a more neutral ground, although I like the spaciousness very much, so I think I'll know for certain until I try them. Already ordered from AliExpress.

Tried to contact Fiio on the link from your signature BTW, yesterday morning, but haven't got an answer yet. Still waiting.


----------



## Ronion

Cool.  There’s certainly a chance the HieGi overdo it.  You can always do the hole punch to gradually bring it into balance as well.  The venting scheme on the Cachonne would make me think it’s bright, but who knows what that driver actually likes.   They are one of the best looking buds out there for sure.  They actually look classy to my eye.


----------



## sofastreamer

guys unfortunatly i am in a hurry, but wanted to let you know, that all of you will need the soundpeats Air3 Deluxe HS! I got these and cannot believe that in forst place they have LDAC which works like a charme and second, they are realli full of details and not just by pushing the highs , but by an excellent driver. I listen to them in custom eq mode, which i left ruler flat and man, these  are not your typical V-shaped 20 DOllar Buds, these might rival my EM5, but I have yet to do an AB test. Will let you know once I have done this and compared it to the FF3 as well. Would really like  to hear your thoughts about this little gem.


----------



## mt877

baskingshark said:


> Smabat are crowdfunding some wireless BT earbuds, called the S1.
> 
> 14.2 mm LCP DD
> 
> ...


Looks like Smabat abandoned the original prototype M4 Bluetooth module for this S1 version. Look at the size difference. Looks like S1 has a microphone hole. Maybe they made it bigger to also hold a bigger battery?

Original prootype:






Latest S1:


----------



## mt877

Oscarilbo said:


> Thank you! I didn't know one could do that and improve the sound even further. So I guess even a medium hole (as long as is in line with your eardrum) may do it.
> Thanks to all for your insights.
> What do you think about the FAAEAL foam tips? I guess they are generic but I won't expect differ much from the VE pack. I'm rooting for white foams for my Chaconne


I don't have any foams from FAAEAL, so no comment. VE pack is versatile since it includes thin, medium and thick density full and donut foams. As mentioned by others, you'll need to experiment to find your happy medium between fit and sound. It could be a possibilty that you're trying to tune an exceptional set of buds which has a sound signature that is not truly to your liking into something you can live with. I don't have the Chaconne so I don't know what they sound like, but I do know they are on the expensive side as far as earbuds are concerned. I have a couple of expensive buds myself and I'm glad that their basic sound signatures fall into my sound preference without too much fine tuning, so I truly like them, not just 'I can live with them'. Hopefully you'll find the right mix of tuning with foams that you can say that you truly like the Chaconne, not that you can live with them.


----------



## drewbadour (Dec 1, 2022)

sofastreamer said:


> guys unfortunatly i am in a hurry, but wanted to let you know, that all of you will need the soundpeats Air3 Deluxe HS! I got these and cannot believe that in forst place they have LDAC which works like a charme and second, they are realli full of details and not just by pushing the highs , but by an excellent driver. I listen to them in custom eq mode, which i left ruler flat and man, these  are not your typical V-shaped 20 DOllar Buds, these might rival my EM5, but I have yet to do an AB test. Will let you know once I have done this and compared it to the FF3 as well. Would really like  to hear your thoughts about this little gem.


I'm rocking these as well - just got mine last week!
I don't think they're close to the wired buds I own (let alone the FF3) but they are buds I can use outside and I enjoy the sound! A win by my book! Previously I had been using my Samsung Galaxy Buds+ but I haven't used those since getting these!


----------



## RMesser9

So, I just got Heigi Full Foams for my Sivga M200's, which I wrote a review about more than three months ago. First impressions are positive. It retains that mid-centric tuning which I enjoy, but the overall presentation is a bit warmer, smoother, and more cohesive. In comparison, the stock full foam had _slightly _peaky and brighter treble, though it already wasn't too bad. I will also put the Heigi's on my Alter Archer 1's eventually and give an update. I don't use it as much as my M200's due to its more shouty upper mids.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> FiiO bass foams are soft an thick.  They may help bring up the perceived low end on the Cachonne as well.  There’s a link in my signature to request them from FiiO as they don’t sell them on their AE page which is a shame.  The regular VE Ex-Pack has some nice ones as well.  They run the gamut from thin to thick.  Then there also HieGi.  HieGi are probably the best made foams but their density will reduce perceived treble in most cases and they are the most expensive. You do get what you pay for however.


I would agree that both are great, and you really can't go wrong with either, though they both are a tad different in their (perceived) presentation.


Oscarilbo said:


> Love that the HieGi are white too. Do you think the HieGi may actually sacrifices detail from the Chaconne, or just makes it less direct?


This is actually what I use on mine, and since I put them on, I have not thought about switching back at all (though I have NOT tried the FF3 foams on the Chaconne). To my ears, they don't sacrifice anything, and simply balance out the sound a bit. Plus, since they are thicker, they also help grip them in your ears a bit better than thinners ones. 


Oscarilbo said:


> Thank you. It seems a better compromise. Although, I like the the protection against dust a complete foam cover brings. Will a hole in the middle make it more prone to having dust in the inside? *I think I may be overreacting a about that*


For what those cost, I don't think you are overreacting. Though I don't think you need worry about dust too much unless you keep them in that sort of environment. When done listening to mine, they go back into the case, so I don't see much dust getting in there unless my ears are full of it...


----------



## Ronion

So now FiiO is showing the graph for the FF5.  If it’s under the same conditions as the FF3, this thing should be crazy good.  LOOK AT THIS


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> So now FiiO is showing the graph for the FF5.  If it’s under the same conditions as the FF3, this thing should be crazy good.  LOOK AT THIS



They seem to know what they are doing with the midrange rather than just boosting ear-gain super high for "female poison". It's likely that they use the same HATS for the measurement. Those cat ears on the FR at 3k and 5k are a bit worrying, though not that unusual for single DD. Still, I have high hope that these would be top performers.


----------



## Ronion (Dec 1, 2022)

Just given the FF3 measurements, I’m not too worried about the FF5 ones.  Maybe a little worried, but only a little. The bass shelf doesn’t extend as deep the FF3 of course.  I’m betting with the Bass foams, this little guy will be beautiful.

Also, if you look, the overall pinna gain is actually lower on the FF5, but they do have a bit more treble.  Not bad decisions on FiiO’s part. 
I just wish they would have equaled the bass.  That’s going to be the FF7.

In fact, this tuning is exactly what I said it should be looking at the shell.  Guess I’m not totally ignorant.  LOL


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> Just given the FF3 measurements, I’m not too worried about the FF5 ones.  Maybe a little worried, but only a little. The bass shelf doesn’t extend as deep the FF3 of course.  I’m betting with the Bass foams, this little guy will be beautiful.



I'm seeing brighter top end (which isn't a bad thing given the somewhat subdued nature of the FF3's treble) and bass that rolls off sooner and a bit faster (again not necessarily a bad thing). I don't think the FF5 is gonna recapture the magic of the FF3, but depending of how much brighter the treble is and in which spots, how much less bass there is, and how the driver and shell differences change the overall presentation, the FF5 looks like it still has the potential to be a very good earbud in its own right.

For those who were holding off on buying the FF3 hoping the FF5 would be the same with MMCX, you can go ahead and buy the FF3s now. Overall, part of me is glad that Fiio didn't try to "improve" on the FF3 and instead decided to make the FF5 an earbud with its own identity. I hope it has its own brand of magic in store for listeners.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I'm seeing brighter top end (which isn't a bad thing given the somewhat subdued nature of the FF3's treble) and bass that rolls off sooner and a bit faster (again not necessarily a bad thing). I don't think the FF5 is gonna recapture the magic of the FF3, but depending of how much brighter the treble is and in which spots, how much less bass there is, and how the driver and shell differences change the overall presentation, the FF5 looks like it still has the potential to be a very good earbud in its own right.
> 
> For those who were holding off on buying the FF3 hoping the FF5 would be the same with MMCX, you can go ahead and buy the FF3s now. Overall, part of me is glad that Fiio didn't try to "improve" on the FF3 and instead decided to make the FF5 an earbud with its own identity. I hope it has its own brand of magic in store for listeners.



I think a lot of can be forgiven, tuning wise, if the technical performance is outstanding and there is no harsh peak. It seems Fiio is trying to make a mid centric pair with excellent technical performance. 

To be fair, FF3 can be a bit too mid-bassy and subdued with some tracks and genres, so we might see an improvement.


----------



## Reebonz

Here are the two graphs stacked on top of each other. Now take this with a grain of salt, as it is unclear if they were measured under the same conditions.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Reebonz said:


> Here are the two graphs stacked on top of each other. Now take this with a grain of salt, as it is unclear if they were measured under the same conditions.


If we "align" them at 1k, it seems FF5 actually have thicker midrange and less ear-gain than FF3 , but stronger response in the mid-treble and region. Interesting.


----------



## Ronion

Reebonz said:


> Here are the two graphs stacked on top of each other. Now take this with a grain of salt, as it is unclear if they were measured under the same conditions.


Thank you for that!  I am assuming that they measure them under the same conditions, but you never know since they don’t state it.


----------



## baskingshark

mt877 said:


> Looks like Smabat abandoned the original prototype M4 Bluetooth module for this S1 version. Look at the size difference. Looks like S1 has a microphone hole. Maybe they made it bigger to also hold a bigger battery?
> 
> Original prootype:
> 
> ...



Err not sure if this is a good idea. The bigger and longer design is gonna shift the centre of gravity lower. I have no idea if this will be stable in the ear!

Actually for Smabat, some of their gear have ergonomic flaws - eg the X1 IEM and perhaps the ST20 Pro (former had sharp poky edges and latter kept dropping out of the ear due to weight/fit).


----------



## rkw

Ronion said:


> So now FiiO is showing the graph for the FF5.  If it’s under the same conditions as the FF3, this thing should be crazy good.  LOOK AT THIS


I'm going to have to wait for impressions. This is what stops me:




I don't really want emphasis anywhere, especially for classical music.


----------



## baskingshark

rkw said:


> I'm going to have to wait for impressions. This is what stops me:
> 
> I don't really want emphasis anywhere, especially for classical music.



ACHTUNG!

Haha that is a red flag for "FEMALE POISON" AKA Banshee upper mids!


----------



## mt877

baskingshark said:


> Err not sure if this is a good idea. The bigger and longer design is gonna shift the centre of gravity lower. I have no idea if this will be stable in the ear!
> 
> Actually for Smabat, some of their gear have ergonomic flaws - eg the X1 IEM and perhaps the ST20 Pro (former had sharp poky edges and latter kept dropping out of the ear due to weight/fit).


Agreed. I like the look of the M4 prototype design better. The S1 looks like it will reach out and slap you on your cheeks.


----------



## Ronion

rkw said:


> I'm going to have to wait for impressions. This is what stops me:
> 
> I don't really want emphasis anywhere, especially for classical music.


But when you look at the graph it doesn’t look like that.  Of course the bass cut combined with the steeper roll off will contribute to that and if these were measured with foams on than this would not be a tuning for me because this would be female poison.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> But when you look at the graph it doesn’t look like that.  Of course the bass cut combined with the steeper roll off will contribute to that and if these were measured with foams on than this would not be a tuning for me because this would be female poison.


The interesting thing is that Fiio makes a big deal about boosting 120 to 1000Hz and cutting resonance around 125Hz rather than boosting the 2k to 4k like, say, Smabat. The graph seems to indicate thicker lower midrange rather than extra upper midrange. Maybe they (Fiio) have learned their lesson from JD7


----------



## drewbadour

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Overall, part of me is glad that Fiio didn't try to "improve" on the FF3 and instead decided to make the FF5 an earbud with its own identity. I hope it has its own brand of magic in store for listeners.


This 100%.

Happy ears.

Unhappy wallet since I may have to keep both haha


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> The interesting thing is that Fiio makes a big deal about boosting 120 to 1000Hz and cutting resonance around 125Hz rather than boosting the 2k to 4k like, say, Smabat. The graph seems to indicate thicker lower midrange rather than extra upper midrange. Maybe they (Fiio) have learned their lesson from JD7


That JD7 looks great and measure to my ideal on a 711.

Looking at this FF5, if it was measured without foams, their crisp or balanced might be better foams.  There is too much venting to get deep bass out of this, so may as well let the bud do what the bud does best.  They should still get you under 100Hz (again depending on how these things were graphed) and the pinna gain on the ff3 does diminish with foam wear.  I wouldn’t want to totally squash it.  Also, I tune my buds with less bass for a lower pinna gain.  They just sound more balanced like that.  These are likely pretty balanced sounding, but just lacking deep bass.  I worry they may be too warm with bass foams.  I bet the technicalities of that driver would let them sound like mud.  It’s all speculation though.  I’m betting on FiiO though.  Their latest IEMs and bud have been great.  I think they’ve cracked the same nuts I have.  My 500 and 600 Ohm buds are tuned similarly.


drewbadour said:


> This 100%.
> 
> Happy ears.
> 
> Unhappy wallet since I may have to keep both haha


The graphs make me want to buy it.


----------



## mt877 (Dec 2, 2022)

rkw said:


> I'm going to have to wait for impressions. This is what stops me:
> 
> I don't really want emphasis anywhere, especially for classical music.


From this chart it looks like quite a few instruments fall into the same frequency range as the female voice. I don't think FiiO is aiming for overkill, just to enhance everything within the same range as female vocals, at least that is what I'm hoping. We won't know until some of us get them in hand.

Edit:


> FiiO Product document said:
> "The frequency range of the female voice is from 160 Hz~ 1.2kHz. The FF5 was designed as a pair of earphones designed to focus on female vocals, and not so much on heavy bass. Thus, much care was taken around the representation of the female voice's frequency range and pitch. We specifically controlled the resonance at 127 Hz in order to prevent vocals from feeling muddy and boomy, while appropriately increasing the 2kHz ~ 4kHz frequency range to make female voices clearer, more transparent, and more prominent. Thanks to the light weight of carbon fiber, _*the FF5 has excellent treble performance, allowing the overtones of vocals, guitars, cymbals, violins, and other instruments to clearly come through in a more nuanced and layered sound.*_"


----------



## mt877

Ronion said:


> That JD7 looks great and measure to my ideal on a 711.
> 
> Looking at this FF5, if it was measured without foams, their crisp or balanced might be better foams.  There is too much venting to get deep bass out of this, so may as well let the bud do what the bud does best.  They should still get you under 100Hz (again depending on how these things were graphed) and the pinna gain on the ff3 does diminish with foam wear.  I wouldn’t want to totally squash it.  Also, I tune my buds with less bass for a lower pinna gain.  They just sound more balanced like that.  These are likely pretty balanced sounding, but just lacking deep bass.  I worry they may be too warm with bass foams.  I bet the technicalities of that driver would let them sound like mud.  It’s all speculation though.  I’m betting on FiiO though.  Their latest IEMs and bud have been great.  I think they’ve cracked the same nuts I have.  My 500 and 600 Ohm buds are tuned similarly.
> 
> The graphs make me want to buy it.


I already bought it, no turning back now...


----------



## Ronion

mt877 said:


> I already bought it, no turning back now...


It’s in my cart.  My CC was hacked.  That’s the only reason I don’t have it.


----------



## mt877

Ronion said:


> It’s in my cart.  My CC was hacked.  That’s the only reason I don’t have it.


Oh man, that sucks. Hope you get your CC issue resolved soon.


----------



## Reebonz

Found someone who's already got a Fiio FF5, and his impressions are very positive.

My FF5 is on its way too, so I'm looking forward to comparing it with my other TGXEAR buds.


----------



## Oscarilbo (Dec 2, 2022)

Guys a question

Listening to the soundtrack from The Last of Us game with the Chaconne, in one particular track I noticed there’s a small resonance/distortion (sort of like a very small vibration) at the very peak of some of the notes on the right earbud. After switching left-right connections from the dac/amp still happens just on the right bud. Again, it is a very small distortion at the very end of some notes just with that particular track, and no other from the soundtrack nor my several CDs I already listened from my collection (I use Cds through a Schiit stack Modi/Heresy); all perfectly fine and crystal clear. Curious thing is replaying it, the distortion isn’t always there.

Is that something relatively common? or is it something to worry about on the long run? Could this may be a burn in thing since the Chaconne still relatively new? It seems this particular track pushes thing far enough for any headphone.

Note: This is a very nitpicky thing because probably not everybody would notice or care, but at this price point I better be 

THIS IS THE TRACK


----------



## Ronion

mt877 said:


> Oh man, that sucks. Hope you get your CC issue resolved soon.


Fortunately the guy tried to make a huge purchased with it minutes after he got the number and the CC Co notified me and I declined the purchase.  He literally never got to use it.  If he had made normal sized purchases….  Thanks bro!


Oscarilbo said:


> Guys a question
> 
> Listening to the soundtrack from The Last of Us game with the Chaconne, in one particular track I noticed there’s a small resonance/distortion (sort of like a very small vibration) at the very peak of some of the notes on the right earbud. After switching left-right connections from the dac/amp still happens just on the right bud. Again, it is a very small distortion at the very end of some notes just with that particular track, and no other from the soundtrack nor my several CDs I already listened from my collection (I use Cds through a Schiit stack Modi/Heresy); all perfectly fine and crystal clear. Curious thing is replaying it, the distortion isn’t always there.
> 
> ...


You may have a hair tickling your driver.  It’s possible that there is a crinkle in the diaphragm.  Look for the hair and try to get it out.  If that doesn’t work, blow gently into the bass port to push the kink out of the diaphragm.  Usually it’s one of those 2 things.


----------



## Oscarilbo (Dec 2, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Fortunately the guy tried to make a huge purchased with it minutes after he got the number and the CC Co notified me and I declined the purchase.  He literally never got to use it.  If he had made normal sized purchases….  Thanks bro!
> 
> You may have a hair tickling your driver.  It’s possible that there is a crinkle in the diaphragm.  Look for the hair and try to get it out.  If that doesn’t work, blow gently into the bass port to push the kink out of the diaphragm.  Usually it’s one of those 2 things.


Thank you. I will try that. Where is the bass port located exactly? I see different vents. Big ones and small ones. Is the bass port the small one?


----------



## mt877

Reebonz said:


> Found someone who's already got a Fiio FF5, and his impressions are very positive.
> 
> My FF5 is on its way too, so I'm looking forward to comparing it with my other TGXEAR buds.


Great find! Was hoping to see some real pictures instead of product renders. They look nice, kind of reminds me of Lotus flower seed pods.

I think many people will be happy with the new cable as well.


----------



## mt877

Oscarilbo said:


> Thank you. I will try that. Where is the bass port located exactly? I see different vents. To big ones and tiny holes on the bud head


There's another trick to do a quick gentle suck from the front of the bud to pull a crease out as well.


----------



## Oscarilbo (Dec 2, 2022)

mt877 said:


> There's another trick to do a quick gentle suck from the front of the bud to pull a crease out as well.


That's a good advice too. Good to know there's options.

I have one of these:




Is it alright? using it gently of course


----------



## JAnonymous5150

My FF5s are flying to the US today! I wish them a safe and happy flight. I hope they brought their passports, visas, and proper documentation. These days you don't want to give customs an excuse to be dicks...🤪


----------



## drewbadour

JAnonymous5150 said:


> My FF5s are flying to the US today! I wish them a safe and happy flight. I hope they brought their passports, visas, and proper documentation. These days you don't want to give customs an excuse to be dicks...🤪


Wow that was quick! Mine has been at the airport for a couple of days now with no sign of movement


----------



## JAnonymous5150

drewbadour said:


> Wow that was quick! Mine has been at the airport for a couple of days now with no sign of movement



When it's at the airport in China is one of the most unpredictable times for packages from AE. Sometimes they shoot right through and fly out and other times they just seem to mysteriously float around the airport for days on end. It's really weird.

FWIW, I hope your FF5s catch a flight out of there ASAP.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> My FF5s are flying to the US today! I wish them a safe and happy flight. I hope they brought their passports, visas, and proper documentation. These days you don't want to give customs an excuse to be dicks...🤪





drewbadour said:


> Wow that was quick! Mine has been at the airport for a couple of days now with no sign of movement


Mine just 





> Arrived at departure transport hub


 today. We'll see how long they sit there before updating to "at customs" in USA... 

I am still nervous about it being "female poison". Even though @Ronion has demonstrated that it actually has less pina gain than the FF3, the bass (all frequencies) is lowered, and I think this will reveal that frequency even more. Though I am glad to hear they focused more on the entire mid section (which might just save them for me). 

I don't know about ya'll, but my brain is smarter (sub-conciously) than I am, and when there is a dip somewhere in the spectrum, I automatically reach for the volume dial to turn it up until I can hear that section. I think this is what saved the Smabat M2s Pro for me because normally they would be too high in the ear gain region, but since they do have some balance, I don't need to crank the volume (thus invoking Mr. Munsen and his stupid curve ) to get the full sound. I sincerely hope that the FF5 does the same (even though there IS a boost). 

I first noticed this behavior with the Tinhifi P1 (lacking a bit of bass on some things), and again with the Chaconne. Though they weren't overtuned in the ear gain region, making it absolutely tolerable at higher volumes. Some people might refer to this specific volume as the "sweet spot". Now that I am thinking about it, all of my head gear has a (different) "sweet spot".


----------



## Oscarilbo (Dec 2, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Fortunately the guy tried to make a huge purchased with it minutes after he got the number and the CC Co notified me and I declined the purchase.  He literally never got to use it.  If he had made normal sized purchases….  Thanks bro!
> 
> You may have a hair tickling your driver.  It’s possible that there is a crinkle in the diaphragm.  Look for the hair and try to get it out.  If that doesn’t work, blow gently into the bass port to push the kink out of the diaphragm.  Usually it’s one of those 2 things.


Well, tried but the micro-rattle is still there. But again, its just with that damn track. Not even the Monk produced that


----------



## fooltoque

mt877 said:


> There's another trick to do a quick gentle suck from the front of the bud to pull a crease out as well.


Lewd.


Oscarilbo said:


> That's a good advice too. Good to know there's options.
> 
> I have one of these:
> 
> ...


Lewd.


----------



## fooltoque

JAnonymous5150 said:


> When it's at the airport in China is one of the most unpredictable times for packages from AE. Sometimes they shoot right through and fly out and other times they just seem to mysteriously float around the airport for days on end. It's really weird.
> 
> FWIW, I hope your FF5s catch a flight out of there ASAP.


Mine has not shipped yet. Delivery date is supposed to be Dec 16, but I'm starting to be doubtful.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Dec 2, 2022)

fooltoque said:


> Mine has not shipped yet. Delivery date is supposed to be Dec 16, but I'm starting to be doubtful.



Hey now, keep your chin up and your fingers crossed. There's still time! I'm pulling for you. 🤞


----------



## Ronion

I have a feeling you guys are all going to like the ff5.  The overall tuning should be very similar to how I tune the 600Be, but this will have carbon cone goodness instead of Beryllium.  Just so we're clear, I really like both cone materials.  I just got done working 27 out of the last 28 days and the desire for a new bud is high (no pun intended there) and the ability to have a few beers is right in front of me.  If I say a lot of nonsense tonight (more than usual), you know why.  With that CCAW coil, these should really have great resolution even with their low impedance.  I am pondering promptly pulling the trigger pounding Paulaner to Polyphia.  Thank goodness my card is out of commission.  Hopefully that remains until a few of you guys acquire this little gem.


Oscarilbo said:


> Thank you. I will try that. Where is the bass port located exactly? I see different vents. Big ones and small ones. Is the bass port the small one?


Any of those ports will do.  Just block off the the other ports while you blow in the other--like doing CPR.  Don't blow too hard though..  If you are naturally a hard blower, you may want to blow in the small hole and block off the big one.  If you have trouble fogging up a mirror, blowing in the bigger hole may be your better option.  I take no responsibility for any ill effects BTW.  Do this at your own risk.  I've had to do it to 2 different drivers and it worked like a charm and no harm has come out of it.

Okay gents, I'm going to get it done tonight.  This has been a long time coming.


----------



## fooltoque

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hey now, keep your chin up and your fingers crossed. There's still time! I'm pulling for you. 🤞


Hehe, thanks. Let's go! Ship!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> I have a feeling you guys are all going to like the ff5.  The overall tuning should be very similar to how I tune the 600Be, but this will have carbon cone goodness instead of Beryllium.  Just so we're clear, I really like both cone materials.  I just got done working 27 out of the last 28 days and the desire for a new bud is high (no pun intended there) and the ability to have a few beers is right in front of me.  If I say a lot of nonsense tonight (more than usual), you know why.  With that CCAW coil, these should really have great resolution even with their low impedance.  I am pondering promptly pulling the trigger pounding Paulaner to Polyphia.  Thank goodness my card is out of commission.  Hopefully that remains until a few of you guys acquire this little gem.
> 
> Any of those ports will do.  Just block off the the other ports while you blow in the other--like doing CPR.  Don't blow too hard though..  If you are naturally a hard blower, you may want to blow in the small hole and block off the big one.  If you have trouble fogging up a mirror, blowing in the bigger hole may be your better option.  I take no responsibility for any ill effects BTW.  Do this at your own risk.  I've had to do it to 2 different drivers and it worked like a charm and no harm has come out of it.
> 
> Okay gents, I'm going to get it done tonight.  This has been a long time coming.



I'm having a glass or three (or four or five etc) if Lagavulin 16 myself tonight. Sometimes you've just got to get a little loose, bro. 🤪🤘😎


----------



## Stevehamny

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I'm having a glass or three (or four or five etc) if Lagavulin 16 myself tonight. Sometimes you've just got to get a little loose, bro. 🤪🤘😎


So
Much
Smoke.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Stevehamny said:


> So
> Much
> Smoke.



I dig a strong peated scotch in my bottle rotation. Sometimes it's just what the doctor ordered! 🍻


----------



## yaps66

Stevehamny said:


> So
> Much
> Smoke.


But
Oh
So
Smooth.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Dec 2, 2022)

yaps66 said:


> But
> Oh
> So
> Smooth.



You're 
Oh
So
Right.


----------



## Oscarilbo

Ronion said:


> Any of those ports will do.  Just block off the the other ports while you blow in the other--like doing CPR.  Don't blow too hard though..  If you are naturally a hard blower, you may want to blow in the small hole and block off the big one.  If you have trouble fogging up a mirror, blowing in the bigger hole may be your better option.  I take no responsibility for any ill effects BTW.  Do this at your own risk.  I've had to do it to 2 different drivers and it worked like a charm and no harm has come out of it.
> 
> Okay gents, I'm going to get it done tonight.  This has been a long time coming.


Thank you for your suggestions. Sadly it is not working. Its not bad tho but who knows after some time. 

I think the better way to describe it is like a mosquito sound at the end of some frequencies.


----------



## Ronion

Oscarilbo said:


> Thank you for your suggestions. Sadly it is not working. Its not bad tho but who knows after some time.
> 
> I think the better way to describe it is like a mosquito sound at the end of some frequencies.


Is part of the housing possibly loose?  That's my next guess because it doesn't seem like anything major with the driver.


Sorry man.  I know that stinks, but I bet you can find the answer.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Oscarilbo said:


> Thank you for your suggestions. Sadly it is not working. Its not bad tho but who knows after some time.
> 
> I think the better way to describe it is like a mosquito sound at the end of some frequencies.



As much as it sucks to say this, if you can't figure out what it is, I would exchange them for a new pair if possible. It doesn't seem like a big deal, but on a an expensive pair like the Chaconnes nothing is too small a thing to make sure of.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Hey now, keep your chin up and your fingers crossed. There's still time! I'm pulling for you. 🤞


+1


JAnonymous5150 said:


> I dig a strong peated scotch in my bottle rotation. Sometimes it's just what the doctor ordered! 🍻


I have had to rearrange my preferences where alcohol is concerned since being diagnosed as a (type 2) diabetic. I used to like some of the richest beers. Now, I am limited to Michelob Ultra for its lack of carbs. 

I am pretty much limited to the hard stuff (bourbon, scotch, vodka, etc...) but with either no meaningful chaser, or not as a mixed drink. 

OK! Shots it is then....  


JAnonymous5150 said:


> As much as it sucks to say this, if you can't figure out what it is, I would exchange them for a new pair if possible. It doesn't seem like a big deal, but on a an expensive pair like the Chaconnes nothing is too small a thing to make sure of.


I have read about issues where it almost seems as though they changed the production process of these at some point with cheaper products. Some of the issues I have read about are mismatch volumes between the two, and the copper driver cover being just copper plate plated (or is it brass, I don't recall), and discoloring over time; though mine have no such issue and I have had them for about 1 1/2 years now. But I have never read about the issue you are having. If there isn't something caught in there, or a wrinkle in the diaphragm, it might just be faulty. 

Did you try switching which ear you put them in (so that the right side is in the left ear, and vice versa)? Does that sound follow? It IS possible that you have something in your ear that might make this happen at certain frequencies. 

All of that said, I totally agree with @JAnonymous5150 in that if you can't get it sorted I would exchange them. This is the worst option, but down the road it COULD get worse if it is a driver problem. In the end (as good as they are to my ears) I would say it is worth it. Just my $.02 though.


----------



## Oscarilbo

Thank you all! I may give them some time and if it keeps happening or gets worse I will try to exchange it.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> +1
> 
> I have had to rearrange my preferences where alcohol is concerned since being diagnosed as a (type 2) diabetic. I used to like some of the richest beers. Now, I am limited to Michelob Ultra for its lack of carbs.
> 
> ...



It sucks that you have to give up the beer. My condolences, bro. That said, hard alcohol with no mixers still gives you tons of options. Not the least of which is to become a Scotch drinker. Seriously though, if you have a favorite kind of liquor these days you can find all kinds of boutique brands and styles to explore for generally reasonable prices. 

It amazes me how many different Scotch varieties there are out there. I could try a new one every day and probably never run out. It's the same with other whiskey types, vodka, rum, etc.  Point being, there are rabbit holes available for you to go have fun in if you decide to so all is not lost just because you have to go the low carb, no beer route.

To @Oscarilbo : Have you tried using a tone generator to figure out what frequency its happening at? Is it only happening in one of the buds or both?


----------



## FranQL (Dec 3, 2022)

Happy to have built 600 Ohm Voodoo again!!!!

It is my favorite sound, but I have heard them a lot, they surprise me again


----------



## o0genesis0o

FranQL said:


> Happy to have built 600 Ohm Voodoo again!!!!
> 
> It is my favorite sound, but I have heard them a lot, they surprise me again


I should stock up those gem stones


----------



## o0genesis0o

Hi folks, 

My review of TGXear Serratus is finally done. You can find it on head-fi and my blog.

The backlog is open, the stage is set. Now we wait for FF5.


----------



## tgx78

o0genesis0o said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> My review of TGXear Serratus is finally done. You can find it on head-fi and my blog.
> 
> The backlog is open, the stage is set. Now we wait for FF5.


Thanks @o0genesis0o Love your review style! I am waiting for my FF5 as well


----------



## Ronion

On QC driver issues:






There's no way to fix this with tuning.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> My review of TGXear Serratus is finally done. You can find it on head-fi and my blog.
> 
> The backlog is open, the stage is set. Now we wait for FF5.



Anothet great review, bro. Keep up the good work!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> On QC driver issues:
> 
> 
> There's no way to fix this with tuning.



Which drivers are these, if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## Ronion

300CNT.  I didn't try tuning them.  They can't be "fixed".  I'm going to see if they'll send me a new one (or two).


----------



## Ronion (Dec 4, 2022)

This is my build tonight (stayed sober).  Alternating placements of each driver twice for the graph, and
the really bad bud photographer strikes again!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> This is my build tonight (stayed sober).  Alternating placements of each driver twice, and
> the really bad bud photographer strikes again!



I think the pic looks good! If this is considered bad photography, then I'm in real trouble...😞


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> It sucks that you have to give up the beer. My condolences, bro. That said, hard alcohol with no mixers still gives you tons of options. Not the least of which is to become a Scotch drinker. Seriously though, if you have a favorite kind of liquor these days you can find all kinds of boutique brands and styles to explore for generally reasonable prices.
> 
> It amazes me how many different Scotch varieties there are out there. I could try a new one every day and probably never run out. It's the same with other whiskey types, vodka, rum, etc.  Point being, there are rabbit holes available for you to go have fun in if you decide to so all is not lost just because you have to go the low carb, no beer route.
> 
> To @Oscarilbo : Have you tried using a tone generator to figure out what frequency its happening at? Is it only happening in one of the buds or both?


Yes, you are right, there ARE indeed many options to be had. For a time now, I have been drinking vodka (pretty much) exclusively. Looking at my avatar you might notice which one I choose. It is called Crystal Head, and it is the smoothest (strong) vodka I have had the pleasure to imbibe. It used to be really expensive (@$100 for a pint), but now it has come down nicely to something like $50 for 750mL. I think this is what makes it so smooth (rather than simply aging it in barrels of any kind or the standard filters): 





> Crystal Head vodka itself is just as remarkable as its vessel. Crafted from corn, it’s distilled four times and filtered seven times—including three times through diamonds. *Yes, diamonds.*



It's a shame I have never found any of those diamonds that might have "accidentally" fallen into the mix and bottled with the drink... 

That is a good idea, and this is the one I normally use (if interested). Though, I do believe the OP mentioned that it was always the right bud that was the culprit (IIRC). Hence the reason I wanted to see if it followed the bud if you switched ears, or stayed in the same ear (possibly showing if it is a bud or ear issue)...


FranQL said:


> Happy to have built 600 Ohm Voodoo again!!!!
> 
> It is my favorite sound, but I have heard them a lot, they surprise me again


Fantastic! I am glad you finally got your 600ohm buds back. It has been overdue for some time now IMHO... Enjoy Hermano!


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I think the pic looks good! If this is considered bad photography, then I'm in real trouble...😞


Amen! Nuff' said....


----------



## Ronion (Dec 4, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I think the pic looks good! If this is considered bad photography, then I'm in real trouble...😞





samandhi said:


> Amen! Nuff' said....



Thank you brothers!

You know @o0genesis0o's review of the Jade Audio JD7 [if you haven't read it, you're an inferior human(JOKE)] got me to bring my Moondrop Aria out of retirement.  It's really a decent IEM, but definitely too bright and aggressive with Spiral Dots on it and it is crazy fatiguing.  The technicalities are a solid notch below what I've grown used to as well, but the soundstage is pretty wide, just not very deep and separation is just okay.  If anyone can recommend better suited tips for that I wouldn't be upset.   The Aria may be the most average of all IEMs, but I can't listen to it for more than a minute or two in its current condition.  The Spiral Dots are just so comfortable that I put them on everything by default.  I really need a broadband pinna/treble reduction.  I know this is the wrong place to ask, but you guys have all kinds of experience and I trust your opinions.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Dec 4, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Yes, you are right, there ARE indeed many options to be had. For a time now, I have been drinking vodka (pretty much) exclusively. Looking at my avatar you might notice which one I choose. It is called Crystal Head, and it is the smoothest (strong) vodka I have had the pleasure to imbibe. It used to be really expensive (@$100 for a pint), but now it has come down nicely to something like $50 for 750mL. I think this is what makes it so smooth (rather than simply aging it in barrels of any kind or the standard filters):
> It's a shame I have never found any of those diamonds that might have "accidentally" fallen into the mix and bottled with the drink...
> 
> That is a good idea, and this is the one I normally use (if interested). Though, I do believe the OP mentioned that it was always the right bud that was the culprit (IIRC). Hence the reason I wanted to see if it followed the bud if you switched ears, or stayed in the same ear (possibly showing if it is a bud or ear issue)...
> ...



I'll have to see if I can pick up a bottle of this Crystal Head to try. I normally keep a bottle of Ketel One or Belvedere handy for the vodka drinkers that visit or the occasional drink myself, but I'm actually running low so now's as good a time as any to switch it up.

Edit: Just checked Crystal Head's website and they have several shops near me that stock it so I'll pick some up tomorrow for sure.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> Thank you brothers!
> 
> You know @o0genesis0o's review of the Jade Audio JD7 [if you haven't read it, you're an inferior human(JOKE)] got me to bring my Moondrop Aria out of retirement.  It's really a decent bud, but definitely too bright and aggressive with Spiral Dots on it and it is crazy fatiguing.  The technicalities are a solid notch below what I've grown used to as well, but the soundstage is pretty wide, just not very deep and separation is just okay.  If anyone can recommend better suited tips for that I wouldn't be upset.   The Aria may be the most average of all IEMs, but I can't listen to it for more than a minute or two in its current condition.  The Spiral Dots are just so comfortable that I put them on everything by default.  I really need a broadband pinna/treble reduction.  I know this is the wrong place to ask, but you guys have all kinds of experience and I trust your opinions.



I mean you can improve the Aria to listen, but why do you want to do that   

Kind of strange that Aria is harsh to you, though. It’s the classic 10db 3k ear gain but with more 250hz than flat line. Tonality is perfectly fine, but the technical performance is a deal breaker to me. I always feel lacking when listening Aria, which fueled my obsession to find better IEM. Many cheap IEMs nowadays don’t trigger that lacking feeling.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> Thank you brothers!
> 
> You know @o0genesis0o's review of the Jade Audio JD7 [if you haven't read it, you're an inferior human(JOKE)] got me to bring my Moondrop Aria out of retirement.  It's really a decent bud, but definitely too bright and aggressive with Spiral Dots on it and it is crazy fatiguing.  The technicalities are a solid notch below what I've grown used to as well, but the soundstage is pretty wide, just not very deep and separation is just okay.  If anyone can recommend better suited tips for that I wouldn't be upset.   The Aria may be the most average of all IEMs, but I can't listen to it for more than a minute or two in its current condition.  The Spiral Dots are just so comfortable that I put them on everything by default.  I really need a broadband pinna/treble reduction.  I know this is the wrong place to ask, but you guys have all kinds of experience and I trust your opinions.



Final E tips or foam TS-400s are what I used when I had the Aria (both versions).


----------



## JAnonymous5150

FranQL said:


> Happy to have built 600 Ohm Voodoo again!!!!
> 
> It is my favorite sound, but I have heard them a lot, they surprise me again



I'm relaxing and listening to my Blue Voodoo 600s right now plugged into my big primary rig. Such a sweet pair of buds and definitely amongst my favorites. I'm happy that I'm no longer keeping you from enjoying some audio voodoo! 🤘😎


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> I mean you can improve the Aria to listen, but why do you want to do that
> 
> Kind of strange that Aria is harsh to you, though. It’s the classic 10db 3k ear gain but with more 250hz than flat line. Tonality is perfectly fine, but the technical performance is a deal breaker to me. I always feel lacking when listening Aria, which fueled my obsession to find better IEM. Many cheap IEMs nowadays don’t trigger that lacking feeling.


The treble is just too hot for me.  I don't recall thinking that with the FiiO tips installed, but they didn't sit well in my right ear.  I still thought they were too thin though.  I have just never gotten along well with the Aria in spite of its billing as an easy to listen to IEM.  IEMs in general seem this way to me now.  My FDX1 is easier on me for sure...  When I listen to my bud collection, there's a calm and warmth about the sound that's so detailed, separated, and layered.  The Aria is out of my head, but simultaneously in my face, exists in one plane and slightly sibilant.  It is very easy to drive, but hard for me to listen to.  



JAnonymous5150 said:


> Final E tips or foam TS-400s are what I used when I had the Aria (both versions).


Sweet!  I have some Final E tips, but I'm not sure which model.  I'll have to dig them out.  I remember now buying them for a rumored bass boost...


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> The treble is just too hot for me.  I don't recall thinking that with the FiiO tips installed, but they didn't sit well in my right ear.  I still thought they were too thin though.  I have just never gotten along well with the Aria in spite of its billing as an easy to listen to IEM.  IEMs in general seem this way to me now.  My FDX1 is easier on me for sure...  When I listen to my bud collection, there's a calm and warmth about the sound that's so detailed, separated, and layered.  The Aria is out of my head, but simultaneously in my face, exists in one plane and slightly sibilant.  It is very easy to drive, but hard for me to listen to.
> 
> 
> Sweet!  I have some Final E tips, but I'm not sure which model.  I'll have to dig them out.  I remember now buying them for a rumored bass boost...


Can’t help you here, mate. Your experience with Aria is so different from mine that I have to wonder about whether you have a good fit. I personally use the stock tips with Aria. I’m only use them when I need to A/B test anyway


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Thank you brothers!
> 
> You know @o0genesis0o's review of the Jade Audio JD7 [if you haven't read it, you're an inferior human(JOKE)] got me to bring my Moondrop Aria out of retirement.  It's really a decent IEM, but definitely too bright and aggressive with Spiral Dots on it and it is crazy fatiguing.  The technicalities are a solid notch below what I've grown used to as well, but the soundstage is pretty wide, just not very deep and separation is just okay.  If anyone can recommend better suited tips for that I wouldn't be upset.   The Aria may be the most average of all IEMs, but I can't listen to it for more than a minute or two in its current condition.  The Spiral Dots are just so comfortable that I put them on everything by default.  I really need a broadband pinna/treble reduction.  I know this is the wrong place to ask, but you guys have all kinds of experience and I trust your opinions.





JAnonymous5150 said:


> Final E tips or foam TS-400s are what I used when I had the Aria (both versions).





Ronion said:


> Sweet! I have some Final E tips, but I'm not sure which model. I'll have to dig them out. I remember now buying them for a rumored bass boost...


The Final Type E are exactly what I was going to suggest (good call). They are known as treble killers for a good reason (very narrow bores). There are only two types of the Type E that I am aware of. They are both called the same thing, but one is shorter (for TWS) and the other is the regular length for IEMs....


----------



## FranQL (Dec 4, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I'm relaxing and listening to my Blue Voodoo 600s right now plugged into my big primary rig. Such a sweet pair of buds and definitely amongst my favorites. I'm happy that I'm no longer keeping you from enjoying some audio voodoo! 🤘😎



I finished 4 buds yesterday, which have really kept me busy throughout this time, so I think I'm going to have a fun Christmas in that sense, although I envy the next experience you'll have with FF5 (it piques my curiosity).

Although I appreciate the drinks you recommend (wonderful), my simple bet is for good beer...

@Ronion you had a hiccup with quality control.....
nice new bud!!!!!!!!, I like that radioactive green wire.....


----------



## Ronion (Dec 4, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Final E tips or foam TS-400s are what I used when I had the Aria (both versions).





samandhi said:


> The Final Type E are exactly what I was going to suggest (good call). They are known as treble killers for a good reason (very narrow bores). There are only two types of the Type E that I am aware of. They are both called the same thing, but one is shorter (for TWS) and the other is the regular length for IEMs....


The Final Type E have essentially brought the balance to how I tune my buds.  What a relief!  I should have tried those sooner.  The Aria are not bad, but definitely just okay as far as technicalities go.  Better than the Apple earbuds, but definitely not as resolving as the 300+ Ohm buds barring maybe the WG (I have my doubts—meaning I bet the WG has better resolution).  I’d have to listen side-by-side and I’m just too lazy, but compared to what I built last night, they are a sizable step behind.  Really though, they are not bad now that they are better balanced tonally speaking.  At least they are not fatiguing.  The Final E fit well and they are comfortable.  Unfortunately, the Aria do leaving me wanting more.  I’ve got a dozen buds with great separation, soundstage and timbre and there’s just no going back.  The JD7 will have to be the ticket.  What I need is an FDX1 with more bass and less 1.5kHz.

thank you guys!  I knew this crowd would have the answer.  You guys are like my audio gurus.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

FranQL said:


> I finished 4 buds yesterday, which have really kept me busy throughout this time, so I think I'm going to have a fun Christmas in that sense, although I envy the next experience you'll have with FF5 (it piques my curiosity).
> 
> Although I appreciate the drinks you recommend (wonderful), my simple bet is for good beer...
> 
> ...



Dude, you're basically an earbud factory lol! I get too caught up tweaking and experimenting to make four in one day. They look great and I'll bet they sound even better. Sounds like it's going to be a great Christmas around your house, hermano! 👍🤘😎


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> The Final Type E have essentially brought the balance to how I tune my buds.  What a relief!  I should have tried those sooner.  The Aria are not bad, but definitely just okay as far as technicalities go.  Better than the Apple earbuds, but definitely not as resolving as the 300+ Ohm buds barring maybe the WG (I have my doubts—meaning I bet the WG has better resolution).  I’d have to listen side-by-side and I’m just too lazy, but compared to what I built last night, they are a sizable step behind.  Really though, they are not bad now that they are better balanced tonally speaking.  At least they are not fatiguing.  The Final E fit well and they are comfortable.  Unfortunately, the Aria do leaving me wanting more.  I’ve got a dozen buds with great separation, soundstage and timbre and there’s just no going back.  The JD7 will have to be the ticket.  What I need is an FDX1 with more bass and less 1.5kHz.
> 
> thank you guys!  I knew this crowd would have the answer.  You guys are like my audio gurus.



I'm happy they worked out for you. They were my favorite silicone tip on the Arias by a good margin and they're pretty much the first tips I try on any IEM that needs anything in the treble smoothed out.


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I'm happy they worked out for you. They were my favorite silicone tip on the Arias by a good margin and they're pretty much the first tips I try on any IEM that needs anything in the treble smoothed out.


They quite literally fixed it.  Thanks Bro!  Now do you have tweak that will give them better resolution and separation?  LOL. They are nice and punchy while being simultaneously smooth.  It's not a bad sound.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> They quite literally fixed it.  Thanks Bro!  Now do you have tweak that will give them better resolution and separation?  LOL. They are nice and punchy while being simultaneously smooth.  It's not a bad sound.


A common trick it to remove the metal mesh in front of the nozzle


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> A common trick it to remove the metal mesh in front of the nozzle


Has this worked for you?


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> Has this worked for you?


I don't want to touch my Aria because it serves as the benchmark for "average" in my ranking list. However, removing the metal filter is a well known trick to improve the perceived resolution of Aria. I suspect it might drop the midbass a bit or boost 5-8k.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> I don't want to touch my Aria because it serves as the benchmark for "average" in my ranking list. However, removing the metal filter is a well known trick to improve the perceived resolution of Aria. I suspect it might drop the midbass a bit or boost 5-8k.


This is precisely what I worry about.  I agree with you about that average statement.  It might be the most average an IEM can get.  I spend so little time in IEMs that I wonder if even buying an upgrade is worth it.  I may just sell off a lot of stuff to get one.  That way I'm not spending money one anything that will mostly sit in a drawer.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> This is precisely what I worry about.  I agree with you about that average statement.  It might be the most average an IEM can get.  I spend so little time in IEMs that I wonder if even buying an upgrade is worth it.  I may just sell off a lot of stuff to get one.  That way I'm not spending money one anything that will mostly sit in a drawer.



Most of the stuffs I reviewed this year are above Aria in both my ranking via A/B test and subjective enjoyment. My personal setup right now is G5 / AP80 Pro X + JD7 / Andromeda 2020 / MD4. 

About buying new IEM, it depends a great deal what you want with your IEM. For example, I want the best resolution and staging that can to mimic earbuds (to a certain degree), but with stable fit and isolation and strong bass, so that's why I daily drive Fiio JD7 (semi-open back). Many don't care about staging or resolution at all, as long as the tuning is "correct" (some variation of DF or Harman). If you are in that camp, there are so many cheap. options nowadays. Whether spending money can truely improve Aria depends on your criteria and whether you hear any deficit along those criteria with Aria.


----------



## Ronion

I care about all of it.  The JD7 seems like a good deal for sure that was a different price range a few years back.  Its FR on the 711 seems to closely agree with what I'd consider balanced and the reports are good on the technicalities.  Have you heard and if so what do you think of the Truthear Hexa?


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> I care about all of it.  The JD7 seems like a good deal for sure that was a different price range a few years back.  Its FR on the 711 seems to closely agree with what I'd consider balanced and the reports are good on the technicalities.  Have you heard and if so what do you think of the Truthear Hexa?


I haven’t heard, but I have positive feeling about Hexa. Folks at Truthears seem to know what they are doing. At least, it should be a “well-tuned”, neutral IEM that might feel a bit flat or unengaged (due to the BA drivers)


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> I care about all of it.  The JD7 seems like a good deal for sure that was a different price range a few years back.  Its FR on the 711 seems to closely agree with what I'd consider balanced and the reports are good on the technicalities.  Have you heard and if so what do you think of the Truthear Hexa?



Just FYI, I have heard the Hexas. Their a very meh IEM for me. My biggest knock being that the bass is slow enough that it doesn't blend well into the faster nature of the BAs. I found that to be quite annoying, but depending on what you listen to it may not be much of an issue. If I was looking to break out of mediocrity, the Hexa isn't what I would look to.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Just FYI, I have heard the Hexas. Their a very meh IEM for me. My biggest knock being that the bass is slow enough that it doesn't blend well into the faster nature of the BAs. I found that to be quite annoying, but depending on what you listen to it may not be much of an issue. If I was looking to break out of mediocrity, the Hexa isn't what I would look to.


That’s disappointing, though not 100% unexpected.


----------



## drewbadour (Dec 4, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Just FYI, I have heard the Hexas. Their a very meh IEM for me. My biggest knock being that the bass is slow enough that it doesn't blend well into the faster nature of the BAs. I found that to be quite annoying, but depending on what you listen to it may not be much of an issue. If I was looking to break out of mediocrity, the Hexa isn't what I would look to.


Have you tried wide bore tips with the Hexa? I have the Hexa and JD7 both on hand right now and find the Hexa to sound just okay and kinda mushy with narrow bore tips but really shine with wider bore ones which seem to elevate resolution techs and treble nicely. I do agree that bass could be better though - a bit more would have been great!

As for the JD7, I find it nicely balanced but leans a little shouty for me which was surprising given it doesn't graph that way - and the bass was a bit too much and could stand to be a bit tighter (but some might actually like this a lot).

I do like them both quite a lot though!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> That’s disappointing, though not 100% unexpected.



I posted a slightly longer take on the discovery thread, but the overall impression I had was that this is just another IEM generating a lot of hype that's really just pretty mediocre. The incongruous nature of the bass/DD speed with the mid/BA speed is the real hang up for me though. It makes transients sound completely different depending on what part of the sonic range something is playing in. As a note, when I mentioned it on the discovery thread there were a couple other folks who noticed it too just so you know that it's not just me being nuts or overly picky.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Dec 4, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I posted a slightly longer take on the discovery thread, but the overall impression I had was that this is just another IEM generating a lot of hype that's really just pretty mediocre. The incongruous nature of the bass/DD speed with the mid/BA speed is the real hang up for me though. It makes transients sound completely different depending on what part of the sonic range something is playing in. As a note, when I mentioned it on the discovery thread there were a couple other folks who noticed it too just so you know that it's not just me being nuts or overly picky.



To think about it, as single DD gets more and more competent, these complex multi-drivers sets are less and less compelling. They are very expensive due to component costs and R&D, and rarely perfect unless the manufacturers really know what they are doing.

Anyhow, I think I’m done with my personal IEM collection. Even U12t and Monarch do not feel very compelling given their price. Still have a big gap in my flathead collection though


----------



## JAnonymous5150

drewbadour said:


> Have you tried wide bore tips with the Hexa? I have the Hexa and JD7 both on hand right now and find the Hexa to sound just okay with narrow bore tips but really shine with wider bore ones which seem to elevate resolution techs and treble nicely. I do agree that bass could be better though - a bit more would have been great!
> 
> As for the JD7, I find it nicely balanced but leans a little shouty for me which was surprising given it doesn't graph that way - and the bass was a bit too much and could stand to be a bit tighter (but some might actually like this a lot).
> 
> I do like them both quite a lot though!



I tried them with my own tips that I had on me at the time which consisted of some Final Es, some spinfits, and some TS-400 foams. I always have multiple wide bore options on me because I prefer them wide bores on all my current UIEMs and I tend to prefer them period.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

BTW, I forgot to post about this when I got them, but I ended up ordering the 32ohm Titanium version of the copper shelled NSC Audio earbuds. They aren't as good as the 80ohm LCP version, but they're also darn good for the money. In my limited DIY experience I will say that the 32Ti are some of the easiest drivers to tune for a fairly balanced sound with reasonable extension on both ends and it has good detail retrieval. Combine that with these copper shells that have a big and easily tunable vent/port on the back and you get a pretty good result. This 32ti version doesn't have the snappy articulation you get on the 80LCP nor does it have the same timbral accuracy, but the 80LCP are, IMO, exceptionally good and the 32Ti are not very far behind. I would have no problem recommending either to folks looking for some buds that out perform their price tags for sure.


----------



## fooltoque

fooltoque said:


> Hehe, thanks. Let's go! Ship!


Shiiiiiiiiiiped!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

fooltoque said:


> Shiiiiiiiiiiped!



Hey, I guess keeping our fingers crossed worked, eh? Congratulations on your shipping confirmation and cheers to new buds soon! 🍻


----------



## drewbadour

While waiting for FF5 to land - this arrived at my doorstep


----------



## ttorbic

drewbadour said:


> While waiting for FF5 to land - this arrived at my doorstep


Nice! Aaaand?? How does it compare to the Serratus?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

drewbadour said:


> While waiting for FF5 to land - this arrived at my doorstep



Nice! Customs has my FF5s. You'll have to let me/us know how you like the VE Sun.

Edit: Congratulations on the new pair, BTW!


----------



## feverfive

Yeah, my FF5's landed in the U.S. yesterday, so figure maybe I'll have them within 10 -14 days (based on assumptions about workload at customs and USPS in general).  Looking forward to trying them; plan to sell my only set of headphones shortly after the new year.  (I admitted to myself well over a year ago, after 15+ years in this hobby that I'm not a headphone guy, hahaha, but I keep winding up with a pair to *not* use, LOL).  Plan is to stick to earbuds and IEMs going forward....but we'll see.


----------



## BCool

I added a pair of NSC audio LCP 80ohm that @JAnonymous5150 has been recommending to my 11.11 DIY order, and I'm giving them a quick listen now.
Initial impressions:
Definitely a fun set, music sounds natural and engaging. More detail than the X6 or PAC earbuds, with a good amount of bass still. Nightclub Junkie by YUC'e was clear and nothing was lost. Limit to Your Love by James Blake had the piano sounding good and was actually OK when it came to the bass wobble.
I'll have to do some A/B listening but these might become my go-to buds.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

BCool said:


> I added a pair of NSC audio LCP 80ohm that @JAnonymous5150 has been recommending to my 11.11 DIY order, and I'm giving them a quick listen now.
> Initial impressions:
> Definitely a fun set, music sounds natural and engaging. More detail than the X6 or PAC earbuds, with a good amount of bass still. Nightclub Junkie by YUC'e was clear and nothing was lost. Limit to Your Love by James Blake had the piano sounding good and was actually OK when it came to the bass wobble.
> I'll have to do some A/B listening but these might become my go-to buds.



Awesome! I'm glad you're liking them so far. I find myself listening to them quite a bit.


----------



## drewbadour (Dec 6, 2022)

ttorbic said:


> Nice! Aaaand?? How does it compare to the Serratus?


Need some time to listen more but some initial impressions:

Bass is leaner on the Sun Copper vs the Serratus but it is cleaner - not as much rumble as I'd like but it's very detailed. Serratus wins in sub-bass extension and rumble, Sun Copper wins in clarity. No other bud I have heard has sub-bass quite like the Serratus but they are very different - like comparing apples to oranges 

Sun Copper mids are probably the cleanest I've heard in any transducer - it's making everything else I listen to sound fuzzy on A/B.

Treble is very airy and sparkly - very well-extended and very natural sounding. Similar to Serratus in this respect here - need more time to compare though.

I can already say Sun Copper's resolution is best in class from lows-to-highs (among the transducers I've owned or heard). I'm hearing details I've never heard before in songs I've heard a million times before regardless of transducer type.

Stage is very wide and deep with great separation and imaging. I think Sun Copper takes it by a hair here as it does have better separation and more precise imaging and positioning. The Serratus does sound a bit more like a 2.1 system though which is super nice.

One thing to note: Sun is a tricky fit - takes some playing around to get it seated right but it does stay firmly in place once I get it there.


----------



## mt877

Jumped on the NSC LCP 80Ω bandwagon as well. NSC Audio DIY store is having a sale with additional discount right now, so added them (buds only, no cable) in with some other DIY buds stuff to make the discount. My FF5 haven't made it onto the freedom bird yet. Waiting, waiting...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> Jumped on the NSC LCP 80Ω bandwagon as well. NSC Audio DIY store is having a sale with additional discount right now, so added them (buds only, no cable) in with some other DIY buds stuff to make the discount. My FF5 haven't made it onto the freedom bird yet. Waiting, waiting...



Does 5 or 6 guys on one thread count as a bandwagon? How many people do I have to get to buy it before I can claim that I've started a hype train? LOL 🤣

Seriously though, they really are quite good. They have a nice balanced signature that stays detailed and clean from top to bottom. I hope you dig yours as much as I dig mine. You'll have to let me/us know.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

drewbadour said:


> Need some time to listen more but some initial impressions:
> 
> Bass is leaner on the Sun Copper vs the Serratus but it is cleaner - not as much rumble as I'd like but it's very detailed. Serratus wins in sub-bass extension and rumble, Sun Copper wins in clarity. No other bud I have heard has sub-bass quite like the Serratus but they are very different - like comparing apples to oranges
> 
> ...



The VE Sun Coppers sound really impressive. Based on what you and another friend of mine who owns them have said, I think I'm gonna have to track down a pair of these for myself. That said, I'm leaving in just a few weeks so it's gonna have to wait for at least a few months. Congratulations on the buds, bro!


----------



## Eduardiofilo

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Does 5 or 6 guys on one thread count as a bandwagon? How many people do I have to get to buy it before I can claim that I've started a hype train? LOL 🤣
> 
> Seriously though, they really are quite good. They have a nice balanced signature that stays detailed and clean from top to bottom. I hope you dig yours as much as I dig mine. You'll have to let me/us know.


I will buy them too


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Okay, but you want to order the actual buds and not just the drivers. I'll include a link below just in case.

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNrWazG


----------



## Eduardiofilo

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay, but you want to order the actual buds and not just the drivers. I'll include a link below just in case.
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNrWazG


But those are 32ohm 🤔🤔


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Dec 5, 2022)

Eduardiofilo said:


> But those are 32ohm 🤔🤔



There is a 32ohm Titanium version and an 80ohm LCP version.

Edit: The LCP version is the one I have been recommending that we've been discussing.


----------



## dsonance

drewbadour said:


> Need some time to listen more but some initial impressions:
> 
> Bass is leaner on the Sun Copper vs the Serratus but it is cleaner - not as much rumble as I'd like but it's very detailed. Serratus wins in sub-bass extension and rumble, Sun Copper wins in clarity. No other bud I have heard has sub-bass quite like the Serratus but they are very different - like comparing apples to oranges
> 
> ...


Sounds fabulous! Congratulations with a worthy addition to your collection!

How do you feel the Sun Copper compares to the Ripples?


----------



## drewbadour (Dec 5, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay, but you want to order the actual buds and not just the drivers. I'll include a link below just in case.
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNrWazG


Add me to the list of 80LCP owners!
Just put this one together! Thanks for sending the drivers over for me to try @tgx78


----------



## JAnonymous5150

drewbadour said:


> Add me to the list of 80LCP owners!
> Just put this one together! Thanks for sending the drivers over for me to try @tgx78



Oddly enough, I haven't done my own build with the 80ohm LCPs but I have done one with the 300ihm LCPs. So how does your build sound?


----------



## drewbadour

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Oddly enough, I haven't done my own build with the 80ohm LCPs but I have done one with the 300ihm LCPs. So how does your build sound?


It's still stock right now haha. Will be trying to tune it this week. A little worried because the diy earbuds guide says it's hard to tune 😅


----------



## JAnonymous5150

drewbadour said:


> It's still stock right now haha. Will be trying to tune it this week. A little worried because the diy earbuds guide says it's hard to tune 😅



The 300ohm has some quirks to it, too, but the potential is easy to hear and few experiements will get you headed in the right direction. Once you get the hang for pushing the tuning in the right direction it starts to come together pretty quick. That's been my experience for most drivers regardless of over ear or earbud application. Keep me/us posted on how it turns out.


----------



## FranQL (Dec 6, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> The 300ohm has some quirks to it, too, but the potential is easy to hear and few experiements will get you headed in the right direction. Once you get the hang for pushing the tuning in the right direction it starts to come together pretty quick. That's been my experience for most drivers regardless of over ear or earbud application. Keep me/us posted on how it turns out.



Still, if you don't get something decent, we can always help you @drewbadour .


----------



## Reebonz

The FF5s have arrived. On all three foam types, they sounded hollow and diffused, but they have a good bass impact and are not harsh on female voices.

Being exceptionally lightweight means excellent comfort. Even better fit than those MX500 shells for me. The stock cable is slightly stiff though.

Hopefully, I will grow accustomed to the sound as I listen more.

In comparison with FF3, it is not as warm sounding. There is less low-frequency extension than FF3, but its impact has remained the same, and the sense of speed has been significantly enhanced.

At the moment, my favorite is TGXear Serratus (Hiegi donut foam), which outperforms the FF5 in every aspect and sounds the closest to my Meze Elite headphone.

I would love to hear what other people think of the FF5


----------



## baskingshark

mt877 said:


> Looks like Smabat abandoned the original prototype M4 Bluetooth module for this S1 version. Look at the size difference. Looks like S1 has a microphone hole. Maybe they made it bigger to also hold a bigger battery?
> 
> Original prootype:
> 
> ...



Anyways bros, it seems this TWS Smabat thing features a modular BT concept with swappable drivers from the M4 lineage.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink....tQoqBi8KDPcTeXGfkjcqvBzzRl&id=100063718818578









I gotta say, SMABAT has always tried to push boundaries with creative concepts - eg tuning switches on their IEMs, swappable modular drivers on their earbuds, and now this TWS, and even attempting BAs with traditional earbuds.

Although not all of these ideas succeed (I'm still pretty bummed after purchasing the icepick Smabat ST20 Pro hybrid with BA), I do wish the company well. At least they are trying to innovate and I hope the ergonomics don't mess up the dreams they have dreamt up.


----------



## BCool

I might get a pair of these to have something to use with the stock M4 drivers. Hopefully they tune the housing (either acoustically or with DSP) to bring down that ice-pick. I still listen to the M4 (150ohm) every now and again as it seems to have a really good soundstage, but it's definitely enough to justify what I spent on it.


----------



## 4ceratops

So when I look at the Smabat earbud TWS concept, I don't want to believe that it will hold steady in my ears with modules containing batteries. Maybe I'm a ken skeptic, I wish I was wrong.


----------



## drewbadour

4ceratops said:


> So when I look at the Smabat earbud TWS concept, I don't want to believe that it will hold steady in my ears with modules containing batteries. Maybe I'm a ken skeptic, I wish I was wrong.


you know, that's actually a great point... might need a stem or an earhook to stay stable


----------



## mt877 (Dec 6, 2022)

drewbadour said:


> you know, that's actually a great point... might need a stem or an earhook to stay stable


I just tried a quick test with the M4. I put the left bud (with foam) in my ear and let the cable + right bud hang free. I shook my head around pretty good with the long dangling cable + right bud swinging around and the left bud did not budge. I could feel the entire weight in my left ear, but was solid. I did the same with my right ear and same result. I think a long swinging cable is a force multiplier and would be apt to pull the bud out of your ear, but it was solid. Give it a try and see what you think.

Edit: Maybe the downward force due to the cable weight kept the bud in place vs the swinging motion?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Reebonz said:


> The FF5s have arrived. On all three foam types, they sounded hollow and diffused, but they have a good bass impact and are not harsh on female voices.
> 
> Being exceptionally lightweight means excellent comfort. Even better fit than those MX500 shells for me. The stock cable is slightly stiff though.
> 
> ...



My FF5s gave cleared customs so I should be getting them pretty soon. They've actually been moving through the shipping system pretty quickly.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

FranQL said:


> Still, if you don't get something decent, we can always help you @drewbadour .



See, this right here is why @FranQL is the best. He's just a genuinely good dude through and through.


----------



## drewbadour (Dec 6, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> See, this right here is why @FranQL is the best. He's just a genuinely good dude through and through.


You both are great 

Glad to be here and to have gotten the chance to know you both 



FranQL said:


> Still, if you don't get something decent, we can always help you @drewbadour .


----------



## FranQL

JAnonymous5150 said:


> See, this right here is why @FranQL is the best. He's just a genuinely good dude through and through.



I don't know what to answer to this, lending a hand doesn't cost anything!



drewbadour said:


> You both are great
> 
> Glad to be here and to have gotten the chance to know you both



We are better people in a bar (or anywhere) having a few beers, believe me


----------



## JAnonymous5150

drewbadour said:


> You both are great
> 
> Glad to be here and to have gotten the chance to know you both



Aww shucks...thanks bro! 😊


----------



## drewbadour

FranQL said:


> I don't know what to answer to this, lending a hand doesn't cost anything!
> 
> 
> 
> We are better people in a bar (or anywhere) having a few beers, believe me





JAnonymous5150 said:


> Aww shucks...thanks bro! 😊



If any of you ever find yourself in Texas let me know!


----------



## fooltoque

Reebonz said:


> The FF5s have arrived. On all three foam types, they sounded hollow and diffused, but they have a good bass impact and are not harsh on female voices.
> 
> Being exceptionally lightweight means excellent comfort. Even better fit than those MX500 shells for me. The stock cable is slightly stiff though.
> 
> ...


Congrats on the quick delivery!

I had kinda suspected from the descriptions that the FF5s would be compared to the Serratus here. Can't wait to get mine!


----------



## drewbadour (Dec 7, 2022)

Back with some more impressions on the Sun Copper!

This is the most resolving transducer I've heard, hands down. Hearing new details in songs I've listened to hundreds of times.

No notable shortcomings in tuning either - it's neither warm nor thin - bass is very well extended, mids are crystal clear, treble is very good.

Sound stage is very wide and deep with a ton of layering.

It's not a clinical bud either - it has top-shelf dynamics and transients that make for a very engaging listen.

The thing that most of you will probably ask for is a comparison with TGX buds:

Serratus has a more subbass while Sun Copper is more balanced between sub and mid-bass. As far as stage goes - Serratus has a more expansive stage that spreads out in front of you but it lacks definition and seems amorphous compared to Sun Copper's stage which is a little closer to you but is also incredibly well-defined and precise. Serratus is still very special though and you just get enveloped in the sound.

Timbre is closest to Ripples of all the TGXEar buds I have but in A/B, Ripples has a more charming analog feel compared to the "colorless" timbre of the Sun Copper. Resolution and stage go to Sun Copper.

Alpha timbre for violins is still magical to me and for this reason, it will always get a lot of listening time.

The main thing I would knock the Sun Copper for is fit - it's very tricky and it's not just "jam them in and you're good to go." Being a large stemless bell with a hefty cable, it does take a bit of experimentation to find the best position to get the right seal and they don't sound their best without the right fit. The provided ear hooks help (they even came pre-attached).

TLDR:
1. Serratus is like floating in the ether.
2. Alpha is the violin/string specialist.
3. Ripples is great for a more intimate/personal experience.
4. Sun Copper is the jack of all trades... and does it all well with incredible precision.


----------



## ttorbic

drewbadour said:


> Back with some more impressions on the Sun Copper!
> 
> This is the most resolving transducer I've heard, hands down. Hearing new details in songs I've listened to hundreds of times.
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking the time to write this up! Much appreciated


----------



## ttorbic

Btw, for all Megatron owners: apparently it is 300 mW per channel, so running balanced, its output is indeed 600 mW, which is pretty solid.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

ttorbic said:


> Btw, for all Megatron owners: apparently it is 300 mW per channel, so running balanced, its output is indeed 600 mW, which is pretty solid.


Do you mind me asking where you heard/read these numbers? I haven't gotten around to measuring the output of mine yet, but I have been convinced that the Megatron has more than the power listed on the VE site and AE sore since I first got it so I'm interested to know who measured it.


----------



## ttorbic

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Do you mind me asking where you heard/read these numbers? I haven't gotten around to measuring the output of mine yet, but I have been convinced that the Megatron has more than the power listed on the VE site and AE sore since I first got it so I'm interested to know who measured it.


On YouTube:


----------



## drewbadour

ttorbic said:


> On YouTube:



Ah that's interesting! Isn't that @OspreyAndy?


----------



## o0genesis0o

drewbadour said:


> Ah that's interesting! Isn't that @OspreyAndy?


It’s his channel.


----------



## o0genesis0o

ttorbic said:


> Btw, for all Megatron owners: apparently it is 300 mW per channel, so running balanced, its output is indeed 600 mW, which is pretty solid.


I though the convention nowadays is to report per channel metric? Reporting 600mW for 300mW would get new or disliked companies like KZ in hot water for sure.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> I though the convention nowadays is to report per channel metric? Reporting 600mW for 300mW would get new or disliked companies like KZ in hot water for sure.



Apparently he's saying that they measured the output at 300mW per channel on the SE connection. I haven't watched the video though.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> I though the convention nowadays is to report per channel metric? Reporting 600mW for 300mW would get new or disliked companies like KZ in hot water for sure.






The numbers VE is quoting is substantially lower, but they don’t say if that’s total or per channel.  Seems like it’s more likely per channel and they are probably under rating that.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> The numbers VE is quoting is substantially lower, but they don’t say if that’s total or per channel.  Seems like it’s more likely per channel and they are probably under rating that.


300mW@32ohm balanced, per channel, seems fair enough.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> 300mW@32ohm balanced, per channel, seems fair enough.


Of course I don’t think very many people are using this with 32Ohm drivers…. So I think those numbers are just for ad fluff.


----------



## Killedkella (Dec 8, 2022)

Hi everyone,

Just curious about anyone that owns the FiiO FF3 earbuds. Do you find the satisfactory? After a/b testing them to my apple earpods I cant say the same.

The earpods just sound more natural and open, and even beat out the ff3s on the low end. Im guessing that its in part of the tuning and most importantly fit. The earpods just sit much deeper in the ear than my FF3s. Am I crazy? Curious what others think.

Edit 1: After some further listening the FF3s def have more body, maybe even resolution. They still come off as more distant sounding and not as spacious as the earpods.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Killedkella said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Just curious about anyone that owns the FiiO FF3 earbuds. Do you find the satisfactory? After a/b testing them to my apple earpods I cant say the same.
> 
> ...



Wow, there has to be something wrong with the fit or perhaps the tip you have installed has the polarity reversed or something because the earpods pale in comparison to the FF3s. Not that they're bad, but they're very mediocre and the FF3s are very good with significantly more powerful bass which is the first thing that makes me think you have a problem. I think the bass thing is a pretty objective metric that everyone can agree on so that's why I mentioned it.

What are you plugging the FF3s into? What foams are you using? Have you checked to make sure the tip is installed/aligned properly?


----------



## Killedkella (Dec 8, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Wow, there has to be something wrong with the fit or perhaps the tip you have installed has the polarity reversed or something because the earpods pale in comparison to the FF3s. Not that they're bad, but they're very mediocre and the FF3s are very good with significantly more powerful bass which is the first thing that makes me think you have a problem. I think the bass thing is a pretty objective metric that everyone can agree on so that's why I mentioned it.
> 
> What are you plugging the FF3s into? What foams are you using? Have you checked to make sure the tip is installed/aligned properly?


Im using my ZX500 Dap through single ended with high gain, and the FF3s have the bass foams on them as I find that sound the most pleasing.

My theory is that it all comes down to the fit, the earpods can go really far down deep into my ear canal compared to the FF3s, so they come off as more immersive. On continued listening though I do notice the FF3s have more body to them and arent as tinny/thin sounding as the earpods.

The earpods come off as almost IEM esc with their sound, they are def more open sounding to my ears at least.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Killedkella said:


> Im using my ZX500 Dap through single ended with high gain, and the FF3s have the bass foams on them as I find that sound the most pleasing.
> 
> My theory is that it all comes down to the fit, the earpods can go really far down deep into my ear canal compared to the FF3s, so they come off as more immersive. On continued listening though I do notice the FF3s have more body to them and arent as tinny/thin sounding as the earpods.
> 
> The earpods come off as almost IEM esc with their sound, they are def more open sounding to my ears at least.



Sounds like you have it figured out then! Some folks really like their earpods. To me the FF3s are on a completely different level performance wise, but ear anatomy is such a big factor in determining what sounds good to each of us and it's different between each one of us.


----------



## Killedkella

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Sounds like you have it figured out then! Some folks really like their earpods. To me the FF3s are on a completely different level performance wise, but ear anatomy is such a big factor in determining what sounds good to each of us and it's different between each one of us.


Yeah I notice that if I ever so slightly push my FF3s in deeper I get that super rich pounding bass, but they just dont sit like that in my ears. Im so sad! But I guess thats human ears for ya


----------



## o0genesis0o

Killedkella said:


> Im using my ZX500 Dap through single ended with high gain, and the FF3s have the bass foams on them as I find that sound the most pleasing.
> 
> My theory is that it all comes down to the fit, the earpods can go really far down deep into my ear canal compared to the FF3s, so they come off as more immersive. On continued listening though I do notice the FF3s have more body to them and arent as tinny/thin sounding as the earpods.
> 
> The earpods come off as almost IEM esc with their sound, they are def more open sounding to my ears at least.


I guess the thing is the “soundstage” so valued by folks here (including me) might not be interesting or even desirable to many. For example, audiophiles love HD800S for large soundstage, other folks say those headphones are tinny and distant.

EarPods sound more similar to a budget IEM than true flathead earbuds, IMHO.

Another thing is if you A/B quickly, your sensitivity to differences is stronger. That’s why my review always involve daily driving the gear for a while to “adapt” myself to the gear and get a stable impression.


----------



## Killedkella

o0genesis0o said:


> I guess the thing is the “soundstage” so valued by folks here (including me) might not be interesting or even desirable to many. For example, audiophiles love HD800S for large soundstage, other folks say those headphones are tinny and distant.
> 
> EarPods sound more similar to a budget IEM than true flathead earbuds, IMHO.
> 
> Another thing is if you A/B quickly, your sensitivity to differences is stronger. That’s why my review always involve daily driving the gear for a while to “adapt” myself to the gear and get a stable impression.


yeah the earpods are cheating a bit with their shape. 

But to me the difference is pretty stark, the FF3s just sound like they're so far away and distant sounding compared to how surrounding and clear the earpods are. Again this is probably because of my ears, I can def hear the FF3s potential if I push them against my ears a little.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Killedkella said:


> Yeah I notice that if I ever so slightly push my FF3s in deeper I get that super rich pounding bass, but they just dont sit like that in my ears. Im so sad! But I guess thats human ears for ya



BTW, I used to use my friend's ZX500 quite a bit after my old DAP got stolen and I was looking for a replacement and I remember the 4.4mm output sounding noticeably better to my ears. Any particular reason you're using the 3.5mm or was that just for comparison to the earpods purposes?


----------



## Killedkella

JAnonymous5150 said:


> BTW, I used to use my friend's ZX500 quite a bit after my old DAP got stolen and I was looking for a replacement and I remember the 4.4mm output sounding noticeably better to my ears. Any particular reason you're using the 3.5mm or was that just for comparison to the earpods purposes?


I do typically use the balanced port, but for the sake of comparison I wanted it to be as fair as possible.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Killedkella said:


> I do typically use the balanced port, but for the sake of comparison I wanted it to be as fair as possible.



Makes total sense. I didn't think about that until the end which is why I added it on to my question lol! 😂


----------



## Ronion

My measurements of the EarPod and ff3 are dramatically different: the FiiO have a different league of bass output particularly once the foams have broke in.  That said, the EarPods were made to essentially fit everyone where the FiiO are more along the lines of MX500 in how well they’ll fit.  My subjective impression would definitely favor the FiiO in soundstage and resolution, but if they don’t fit you well that impression is subject to differ.


----------



## Killedkella

I'd love to see more Earpod shaped high end earbuds. I'd kill for Fiio to take a swing at it!


----------



## Reebonz

So my earlier bad impression of the FF5 turned out to be due to the high-gain setting of my amp. I switched to low gain and the sound is much more enjoyable now. This bud is very sensitive and doesn't need high power output at all.

Changing to Hiegi donut foam makes a difference as well.

Still not quite on the level of the Serratus I feel, but at least it is a keeper now!


----------



## tendou

Seems like there is not much review on ksearphone db1e?


----------



## Ronion

Killedkella said:


> I'd love to see more Earpod shaped high end earbuds. I'd kill for Fiio to take a swing at it!


The only other large company I know of to take a stab at it is Google, but I think the Apple ones are better.


----------



## Ronion

Reebonz said:


> So my earlier bad impression of the FF5 turned out to be due to the high-gain setting of my amp. I switched to low gain and the sound is much more enjoyable now. This bud is very sensitive and doesn't need high power output at all.
> 
> Changing to Hiegi donut foam makes a difference as well.
> 
> Still not quite on the level of the Serratus I feel, but at least it is a keeper now!


I have yet to hear a low impedance bud that can compete with the high impedance ones.  The aluminum voicecoil may help, but it’s just not enough.  I’d love to hear a high impedance CCAW VC bud.  The ff3 is currently the best low impedance bud I know and I’d bet the ff5 is better in the technicalities department.  I’m just reading this thread everyday waiting on someone who has both to compare…. Id like to have the best bud possible off of a 1V dongle.


----------



## mt877

Ronion said:


> I have yet to hear a low impedance bud that can compete with the high impedance ones.  The aluminum voicecoil may help, but it’s just not enough.  I’d love to hear a high impedance CCAW VC bud.  The ff3 is currently the best low impedance bud I know and I’d bet the ff5 is better in the technicalities department.  I’m just reading this thread everyday waiting on someone who has both to compare…. Id like to have the best bud possible off of a 1V dongle.


Over at the FF5 thread @earl4 posted a link to a review in Japanese. The reviewer compared the FF5 to FF3.

Here's a link for google Japanese to English translation:
https://earl4proxyvoting-com.transl...l=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp


----------



## Ronion

mt877 said:


> Over at the FF5 thread @earl4 posted a link to a review in Japanese. The reviewer compared the FF5 to FF3.
> 
> Here's a link for google Japanese to English translation:
> https://earl4proxyvoting-com.transl...l=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp


The plot thickens


----------



## mt877

Killedkella said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Just curious about anyone that owns the FiiO FF3 earbuds. Do you find the satisfactory? After a/b testing them to my apple earpods I cant say the same.
> 
> ...





Killedkella said:


> Im using my ZX500 Dap through single ended with high gain, and the FF3s have the bass foams on them as I find that sound the most pleasing.
> 
> My theory is that it all comes down to the fit, the earpods can go really far down deep into my ear canal compared to the FF3s, so they come off as more immersive. On continued listening though I do notice the FF3s have more body to them and arent as tinny/thin sounding as the earpods.
> 
> The earpods come off as almost IEM esc with their sound, they are def more open sounding to my ears at least.



I just did a listening comparison between FF3 and Earpods on my ZX507 using the 3.5mm SE with high gain on, volume was at 45 for both.

The Earpods are more midrange focused and that might be the reason they may sound more spacious? The FF3 are more focused on bass, midrange is good, but might seem a little recessed and top end treble can be rolled off especially with the bass foams. You mentioned tinniness with the Earpods. I found that to be true as well.

The FF3 and Earpods definitely have a different sound signature compared to each other. I gravitate toward the FF3, as a matter of fact I had to open a sealed set of Earpods I got with an iPhone for my comparison, so that tells you I never listen with Earpods.


----------



## james444

Killedkella said:


> I'd love to see more Earpod shaped high end earbuds. I'd kill for Fiio to take a swing at it!



You need to go wireless for a wider selection of Earpod shaped earbuds. While the vast majority of wired earbuds are flatheads, with TWS it's the other way round.

Steer clear of the Airpods 3 though, they're absolutely not worth the money imo. There are even Chinese clones for $30 (named "Pro 18") that sound better than those.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Heyo! Guess who's FF5s are out for delivery?!?! This guy!!!!!! This is one of the quicker AliExpress deliveries I have had. My FF5s came faster than other orders I placed before them and I didn't pay for faster shipping or anything.


----------



## drewbadour

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Heyo! Guess who's FF5s are out for delivery?!?! This guy!!!!!! This is one of the quicker AliExpress deliveries I have had. My FF5s came faster than other orders I placed before them and I didn't pay for faster shipping or anything.


Hey! Same!
Can't believe how fast it got here. New record for AliExpress for me


----------



## feverfive

Mehhh, my FF5's show they cleared incoming Customs, and supposedly handed off to local carrier yesterday, but USPS says still awaiting package.


----------



## Ronion

"The anticipation is so thick, you could cut it with a knife"~stereotypical lousy announcer phrase.


----------



## FranQL (Dec 8, 2022)

Ronion said:


> The plot thickens


LOL

let @JAnonymous5150  test them and confirm how complicated the plot is, first hand information is the best.

the bud that I recommended is my best low impedance, but it is far from the general resolution or sharp image of the 500 and 600, which is very good (sometimes changing flavors is necessary) but the high mids here are very high level. On the other hand, I also liked the 120 that I've been listening to for a few days, thick tone, one of the biggest basses, good detail, very good midrange and sweet treble... overall very good.


----------



## drewbadour (Dec 8, 2022)

It's in my ears now. A couple songs in and I can already say that I like this a lot!


----------



## mt877 (Dec 8, 2022)

drewbadour said:


> It's in my ears now. A couple songs in and I can already say that I like this more than FF3!


Nice! In anticipation of receiving my FF5 I've been listening to my EM5 a lot lately. The EM5 has nice bass and are more resolving than the FF3. Right now I'm kinda guessing the FF5 might be more along the lines of the EM5.

Edit: Since @o0genesis0o is looking to increase his collection of worthy earbuds... I'm waiting for his EM5 vs FF5 shoot out...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> Nice! In anticipation of receiving my FF5 I've been listening to my EM5 a lot lately. The EM5 has nice bass and are more resolving than the FF3. Right now I'm kinda guessing the FF5 might be more along the lines of the EM5.



I was thinking the same thing. I just got home and I'm about to start listening. I'll post here when I have had a bit of time with the FF5s.


----------



## drewbadour (Dec 8, 2022)

mt877 said:


> Nice! In anticipation of receiving my FF5 I've been listening to my EM5 a lot lately. The EM5 has nice bass and are more resolving than the FF3. Right now I'm kinda guessing the FF5 might be more along the lines of the EM5.


Sadly I don't have EM5 to help compare.

But FF5 retains a lot of what made FF3 special (to me) minus a bit of sub bass extension. It has better mids and treble, and it's more resolving. Stage is still large, very dynamic, great transients, and it's super comfortable to boot (significantly lighter)!

Already among my favorites


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Dec 8, 2022)

Okay, so after an hour of listening my very early/preliminary impressions are a bit of a mixed bag. The FF5s are a nicely balanced pair of buds with some good detail retrieval, a reasonably wide soundstage, and more treble extension than the FF3s. I would like a bit more depth to the soundstage, but that's more of a nitpick.

Where the negative comes in, though it's not really a negative per se, is that I think there are buds out there that do what the FF5s are trying to do better than the FF5s. If I was looking for a pair of buds in this price range with a good balanced sound signature I would pick the Yincrow RW-2000s or the Shozy BKs and possibly others over the FF5s. Not that the FF5s are a bad pair of buds. They're actually quite good, but they don't really excel at any one thing.

Where @drewbadour says that the FF5s keep most of the magic of the FF3s, I have to disagree a bit. The magic of the FF3s is in that massive and authoritative presentation and, IMO, that is nowhere to be found in the FF5s. The FF3s aren't as balanced, but they aren't trying to be. Let me put it this way, my FF3s aren't going anywhere, but I'm not sure I need to keep the FF5s around. The FF3s are a special pair of buds that do what they do better than any pair of buds I have yet heard. I don't feel that way yet about the FF5s.

Keep in mind that I still have a lot of listening to do and I have only tried the FF5s on a single source, my Cayin N8ii, so there is still a lot of time and potential for these buds to show me things they haven't had the opportunity to show me yet. Another thing to keep in mind is that my impressions are coming from the perspective of a guy who already has multiple pairs of buds with balanced sound signatures that are some of the best available. Period. That means that for another balanced bud to be something I get excited about, it's gonna have to show me something that I'm not getting elsewhere.

I know some folks had specifically been wondering how the FF5s stack up to the Serratus. I will do some ABing and maybe put up something more in depth, but I think the Serratus is the better of the two sound wise. Which brings me to one last point, the FF5s are really a very nicely built and finished earbud. They are light, the machining of all the hardware us high quality, the MMCX connectors have a nice snap to them, but aren't particularly hard to pull apart, the fit is actually quite similar to the FF3s for me in how they sit in my ear which is a good thing because I love the FF3's fit, and the FF5s look great.

I'm still listening and I imagine I'll be going for a number of hours putting the FF5s through their paces. I have the FF3s and the Serratus standing by for some AB listening once I've got more ear time with the FF5s by themselves. If anyone has any other comparisons they want me to do with other buds in my collection just let me know.

Overall, my first reaction to the FF5s has been a pretty neutral one. They're a good listen, they don't do anything offensive, they aren't fatiguing though they have good extension at both ends of the spectrum, and all of that makes them a fine earbud. They just haven't shown me anything special yet and because they are the "successor" to the FF3s I had some pretty high hopes for them as I think others did too. All in all, I think people should stop thinking of these as a successor to the FF3s and just another option from Fiio instead.

I have a pair of EM5s on their way since my bassist is the current custodian of my old pair and I didn't want to give comparison impressions from memory since it has been a while since I listened to the EM5s. I'll post some impressions on that comparison later as well.

Edit: As always, please excuse any typos as I typed and posted this quickly from my phone while listening to the FF5s so my big thumbs and wandering attention don't bode well for typing/spelling accuracy. 😉

Edit 2: The EM5s just got dropped off so I'll be doing some AB testing with them as well. I love new bud day!


----------



## drewbadour (Dec 11, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay, so after an hour of listening my very early/preliminary impressions are a bit of a mixed bag. The FF5s are a nicely balanced pair of buds with some good detail retrieval, a reasonably wide soundstage, and more treble extension than the FF3s. I would like a bit more depth to the soundstage, but that's more of a nitpick.
> 
> Where the negative comes in, though it's not really a negative per se, is that I think there are buds out there that do what the FF5s are trying to do better than the FF5s. If I was looking for a pair of buds in this price range with a good balanced sound signature I would pick the Yincrow RW-2000s or the Shozy BKs and possibly others over the FF5s. Not that the FF5s are a bad pair of buds. They're actually quite good, but they don't really excel at any one thing.
> 
> ...


Great impressions!

I do agree that it does lose the expansiveness of the ff3 but for me serratus takes the cake for that (minus the warmth that is).

For me where ff3 stands out to me in my collection is how tactile it is (not sure if this is the right word for this but it lets me feel the drum hits and guitar string plucks) which makes the music sound more fun and alive and I think FF5 retains that magic!

Haven't tried either the rw2000 or the bk though, but they seem great and I'll probably have to try them one day since this balanced flavor seems to hit the spot for me haha


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay, so after an hour of listening my very early/preliminary impressions are a bit of a mixed bag. The FF5s are a nicely balanced pair of buds with some good detail retrieval, a reasonably wide soundstage, and more treble extension than the FF3s. I would like a bit more depth to the soundstage, but that's more of a nitpick.
> 
> Where the negative comes in, though it's not really a negative per se, is that I think there are buds out there that do what the FF5s are trying to do better than the FF5s. If I was looking for a pair of buds in this price range with a good balanced sound signature I would pick the Yincrow RW-2000s or the Shozy BKs and possibly others over the FF5s. Not that the FF5s are a bad pair of buds. They're actually quite good, but they don't really excel at any one thing.
> 
> ...



I think I get your point. I used FF3 for half a day and Serratus for the other half yesterday to remind me how they sound (preparing for FF5 arrival). If we imagine these two as kilobuck IEMs, then FF3 is the one that impresses folks seeking special, coloured signature whilst Serratus is for folks seeking "correctness". If FF5 is not as coloured as FF3, then it has to face Serratus, which can be quite hard due to the sheer resolving power of high impedance drivers. 

Still, I'll wait and see. Finger-crossed for FF5, as neither FF3 or Serratus completely fill the gap of a good flathead in my collection.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> I think I get your point. I used FF3 for half a day and Serratus for the other half yesterday to remind me how they sound (preparing for FF5 arrival). If we imagine these two as kilobuck IEMs, then FF3 is the one that impresses folks seeking special, coloured signature whilst Serratus is for folks seeking "correctness". If FF5 is not as coloured as FF3, then it has to face Serratus, which can be quite hard due to the sheer resolving power of high impedance drivers.
> 
> Still, I'll wait and see. Finger-crossed for FF5, as neither FF3 or Serratus completely fill the gap of a good flathead in my collection.



I think the FF5s are a fine choice for someone looking for a bakanced pair of buds that are easy to drive off of basically anything. Also, when I was talking about the FF3s versus the FF5s I wasn't discussing colored versus correctness, though I think what you said applies to an extent, I just meant that the FF3s do that huge, articulate, and authoritative presentation better than any other earbud out there that I'm aware of. The FF5s haven't shown me anything that they do exceptionally well, that's all, and that may change. Thus far they are a good, middle of the road pair of earbuds.


----------



## dsonance

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay, so after an hour of listening my very early/preliminary impressions are a bit of a mixed bag. The FF5s are a nicely balanced pair of buds with some good detail retrieval, a reasonably wide soundstage, and more treble extension than the FF3s. I would like a bit more depth to the soundstage, but that's more of a nitpick.
> 
> Where the negative comes in, though it's not really a negative per se, is that I think there are buds out there that do what the FF5s are trying to do better than the FF5s. If I was looking for a pair of buds in this price range with a good balanced sound signature I would pick the Yincrow RW-2000s or the Shozy BKs and possibly others over the FF5s. Not that the FF5s are a bad pair of buds. They're actually quite good, but they don't really excel at any one thing.
> 
> ...


Not sure if that would improve anything for you, but note that there have been reports of the FF5 sounding better a) on lower gain settings; and b) SE instead of balanced. Counterintuitive, on both points, but maybe worth a try?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

dsonance said:


> Not sure if that would improve anything for you, but note that there have been reports of the FF5 sounding better a) on lower gain settings; and b) SE instead of balanced. Counterintuitive, on both points, but maybe worth a try?



I have been listening on low gain, but balanced so I'll try the SE thing in a bit. Just to be clear though, I'm not at all saying that the FF5s are sounding bad. I don't want anyone to think that. I'm more just saying that coming from the FF3s, which I find to be a pretty special pair of buds, the FF5s are much less of a standout. Does that make sense?


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I think the FF5s are a fine choice for someone looking for a bakanced pair of buds that are easy to drive off of basically anything. Also, when I was talking about the FF3s versus the FF5s I wasn't discussing colored versus correctness, though I think what you said applies to an extent, I just meant that the FF3s do that huge, articulate, and authoritative presentation better than any other earbud out there that I'm aware of. The FF5s haven't shown me anything that they do exceptionally well, that's all, and that may change. Thus far they are a good, middle of the road pair of earbuds.


At this rate, it would be better if FF5 is just FF3 with replaceable cable   Man I hate those cables.

Btw, do you use foam or the rubber rings? Fiio seems to make a big deal about those rings this time.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> At this rate, it would be better if FF5 is just FF3 with replaceable cable   Man I hate those cables.
> 
> Btw, do you use foam or the rubber rings? Fiio seems to make a big deal about those rings this time.



I am still foam rolling and ring rolling, but thus far I have found the fit to be better sans rings. As I mentioned in my first post, the fit on the FF5s is quite similar to the FF3s. They settle comfortably into my conchae and seem to remain quite stable even when walking around. The rings actually seem to make the fit a little more finicky, but I'm far from done experimenting. It can take me days or weeks to settle on foams (or tips and earpads for that matter) when I have multiple options. That's actually one of the things I like about over ears that have pads that are designed specifically for them and that they sound best with. It can simplify things for my more OCD side lol! 😂


----------



## JAnonymous5150

drewbadour said:


> Great impressions!
> 
> I do agree that it does lose the massive stage of the ff3 but for me serratus takes the cake for that (minus the warmth that is).
> 
> ...



If you can swing it and you want some of the best of this type of tuning that's easily available and can be bought off the shelf, I think you'd really dig the RW-3000s. They're obviously a but more expensive than the FF5s or the RW-2000, but if this kind of tuning is your thing, the RW-3000s are amongst the best, IMO.


----------



## drewbadour

JAnonymous5150 said:


> If you can swing it and you want some of the best of this type of tuning that's easily available and can be bought off the shelf, I think you'd really dig the RW-3000s. They're obviously a but more expensive than the FF5s or the RW-2000, but if this kind of tuning is your thing, the RW-3000s are amongst the best, IMO.


Already have that in my cart lol but have resisted pulling the trigger for a few months now haha. Now I might have to bite 😅


----------



## mt877 (Dec 8, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> If you can swing it and you want some of the best of this type of tuning that's easily available and can be bought off the shelf, I think you'd really dig the RW-3000s. They're obviously a but more expensive than the FF5s or the RW-2000, but if this kind of tuning is your thing, the RW-3000s are amongst the best, IMO.


RW-3000s is one of my favorites.

Edit: What the heck is going on with the Head-fi server? Pages won't load and timeouts.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Dec 8, 2022)

mt877 said:


> RW-3000s is one of my favorites.
> 
> Edit: What the heck is going on with the Head-fi server? Pages won't load and timeouts.



I've been having problems for the last 36hrs or so.

Edit: RW-3000 is one of the most complete buds out there, IME. You can throw anything at it and it handles it pretty effortlessly. It's actually pretty impressive, but in a low key, understated way.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I've been having problems for the last 36hrs or so.
> 
> Edit: RW-3000 is one of the most complete buds out there, IME. You can throw anything at it and it handles it pretty effortlessly. It's actually pretty impressive, but in a low key, understated way.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

dsonance said:


> Not sure if that would improve anything for you, but note that there have been reports of the FF5 sounding better a) on lower gain settings; and b) SE instead of balanced. Counterintuitive, on both points, but maybe worth a try?



Okay, so just for anyone who reads this and wonders if they sound better single ended, I just tried it and I didn't notice any increase in performance at all. If anything I think the balanced output was better, but that brings me to my point, whether the FF5s sound better balanced or single ended is largeky going to deoend on the quality of the implementation on your source. IMO, the N8ii was meant to be used balanced and the 3.5mm, while very good, is really a convenience thing.


----------



## samandhi (Dec 8, 2022)

Ronion said:


> I’m just reading this thread everyday waiting on someone who has both to compare….





JAnonymous5150 said:


> Heyo! Guess who's FF5s are out for delivery?!?! This guy!!!!!! This is one of the quicker AliExpress deliveries I have had. My FF5s came faster than other orders I placed before them and I didn't pay for faster shipping or anything.





drewbadour said:


> Hey! Same!
> Can't believe how fast it got here. New record for AliExpress for me


WOW! Mine have yet to leave China..... And I ordered (I believe) first or second day of release..... Ah well, patience is good for the soul (but bad for the fingernails) I suppose. 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> If you can swing it and you want some of the best of this type of tuning that's easily available and can be bought off the shelf, I think you'd really dig the RW-3000s. They're obviously a but more expensive than the FF5s or the RW-2000, but if this kind of tuning is your thing, the RW-3000s are amongst the best, IMO.


I think that the difference between the RW2000 and RW3000 is much like the difference between the FF3 and FF5, only less (not having heard the FF5 yet, this is only from what I am reading). The RW2000 has more quantity of bass and is warmer overall and rolled off up top much like the FF3, and the RW3000 has less quantity of bass, but has better mids, and more extended (airy) top-end IMO.... Either way I would say that they are (still to my ears) both fantastic, and worth having both because of their differences.

If the sound from the FF5 is as everyone seems to agree, vastly different, then I would think the same would hold true for the FF3 and FF5. Unless of course you aren't looking for variety.


----------



## baskingshark

mt877 said:


> Edit: What the heck is going on with the Head-fi server? Pages won't load and timeouts.



Bro, if you see the other side of the coin, you might have saved your wallet during these few days with the Headfi pages not loading.

See no evil (new product launches), buy no new wicked audio gear.

Of course, resistance is futile, now that the pages are back up, it is back to opening the wallet!


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> Bro, if you see the other side of the coin, you might have saved your wallet during these few days with the Headfi pages not loading.
> 
> See no evil (new product launches), buy no new wicked audio gear.
> 
> Of course, resistance is futile, now that the pages are back up, it is back to opening the wallet!


You are right. Most of the news about new sound equipment comes from Head-Fi, and then I research elsewhere (and here) for more information. 

What I don't know, won't hurt my wallet (should be the saying)...


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Dec 8, 2022)

samandhi said:


> WOW! Mine have yet to leave China..... And I ordered (I believe) first or second day of release..... Ah well, patience is good for the soul (but bad for the fingernails) I suppose.
> 
> I think that the difference between the RW2000 and RW3000 is much like the difference between the FF3 and FF5, only less (not having heard the FF5 yet, this is only from what I am reading). The RW2000 has more quantity of bass and is warmer overall and rolled off up top much like the FF3, and the RW3000 has less quantity of bass, but has better mids, and more extended (airy) top-end IMO.... Either way I would say that they are (still to my ears) both fantastic, and worth having both because of their differences.
> 
> If the sound from the FF5 is as everyone seems to agree, vastly different, then I would think the same would hold true for the FF3 and FF5. Unless of course you aren't looking for variety.



Having heard all four I will say that the relationship between the RW-2000 and RW-3000 is much more linear than the FF3 to FF5 relationship. The tuning changes are more minor and the RW-3000, with its larger soundstage and superior technicalities, functions much more as a successor in a series than the FF5 does since it really doesn't even bear a passing resemblance to the FF3.

I would agree that it could very well be a keeper for those that don't already have a great balanced bud in their collections. However, if you have that covered with a solid performer then the FF5, at least thus far in my listening, doesn't seem to offer anything special. Still a solid pair of buds that a lot of people will like.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

For anyone who's interested, my PT2022s finally showed up after they had to send me new pairs because the first order gotost en route. In the near future I'm planning on comparing them to the PT2021s I got from @dsonance (thanks again buddy) and I'll post something about it. Just FYI.


----------



## mt877

o0genesis0o said:


> At this rate, it would be better if FF5 is just FF3 with replaceable cable   Man I hate those cables.
> 
> Btw, do you use foam or the rubber rings? Fiio seems to make a big deal about those rings this time.


Definitely don't bother getting the EM5. You might like the sound, but really hate the cable.


----------



## mt877

baskingshark said:


> Bro, if you see the other side of the coin, you might have saved your wallet during these few days with the Headfi pages not loading.
> 
> See no evil (new product launches), buy no new wicked audio gear.
> 
> Of course, resistance is futile, now that the pages are back up, it is back to opening the wallet!


No matter what I look at, no money to spend on gear except for a few small purchases. Property tax time... and right before XMas too... sucks!

I think it was a combo of things, head-fi server issues and my network router acting up. Reboot the router and pages are loading faster now.


----------



## gylyf

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I have been listening on low gain, but balanced so I'll try the SE thing in a bit. Just to be clear though, I'm not at all saying that the FF5s are sounding bad. I don't want anyone to think that. I'm more just saying that coming from the FF3s, which I find to be a pretty special pair of buds, the FF5s are much less of a standout. Does that make sense?


Mine are waiting for me in the mailbox as I return from my honeymoon, so I’m excited to have a listen. I’ve been looking for a balanced, easy-to-drive bud to use with the tube amp card on my DX320 and it sounds like this may be a candidate. I already own and love the BK, though, so the FF5 might end up being redundant. We’ll see…


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Okay so I have a question for the other FF5 owners out there: Are you guys hearing any graininess in the lower treble? On some tracks I think I'm detecting some, but on others I'm not hearing it at all. I'm looking for some alternate versions of some of the tracks I'm hearing it on to make sure that it's not just poor quality recording/mixing/mastering, but I don't know that the FF5s are resolving enough for that to be it. Anyways, let me know and thanks in advance.


----------



## dsonance

JAnonymous5150 said:


> For anyone who's interested, my PT2022s finally showed up after they had to send me new pairs because the first order gotost en route. In the near future I'm planning on comparing them to the PT2021s I got from @dsonance (thanks again buddy) and I'll post something about it. Just FYI.


Congrats with finally receiving those PT2022s, brother! This must've been the longest earbuds delivery ever -- I believe you first ordered them back in August?

As far as the comparison, at least we already know which ones make a bolder fashion statement.


----------



## yaps66

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Heyo! Guess who's FF5s are out for delivery?!?! This guy!!!!!! This is one of the quicker AliExpress deliveries I have had. My FF5s came faster than other orders I placed before them and I didn't pay for faster shipping or anything.





drewbadour said:


> Hey! Same!
> Can't believe how fast it got here. New record for AliExpress for me


How often does that happen! Quickly go out to buy the lottery!



JAnonymous5150 said:


> I was thinking the same thing. I just got home and I'm about to start listening. I'll post here when I have had a bit of time with the FF5s.





JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay, so after an hour of listening my very early/preliminary impressions are a bit of a mixed bag. The FF5s are a nicely balanced pair of buds with some good detail retrieval, a reasonably wide soundstage, and more treble extension than the FF3s. I would like a bit more depth to the soundstage, but that's more of a nitpick.
> 
> Where the negative comes in, though it's not really a negative per se, is that I think there are buds out there that do what the FF5s are trying to do better than the FF5s. If I was looking for a pair of buds in this price range with a good balanced sound signature I would pick the Yincrow RW-2000s or the Shozy BKs and possibly others over the FF5s. Not that the FF5s are a bad pair of buds. They're actually quite good, but they don't really excel at any one thing.
> 
> ...


Congratulations! Hmmm. Would you say that this was a disappointment and that the FF3 were sort of an outlier for them?  Looking forward to hearing the  A/B comparisons with EM5.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Dec 9, 2022)

yaps66 said:


> How often does that happen! Quickly go out to buy the lottery!
> 
> 
> 
> Congratulations! Hmmm. Would you say that this was a disappointment and that the FF3 were sort of an outlier for them?  Looking forward to hearing the  A/B comparisons with EM5.



I haven't done any EM5 listening yet so that part will likely have to wait until tomorrow. As for the FF5s being a disappointment, yes and no. They are only slightly disappointing in that they don't have the special sauce that the FF3s have so much of, but taken objectively without the FF3 as context, I'm perfectly satisfied with the FF5s as a good $150 offering in the earbud market. They may not be my favorite in and around the price point, but they're still a good option and, as I said before, I think they'll end up being relatively popular.

To @gylyf : Don't be to worried just yet. I prefer the Shozy BKs at that roughly $150 price, but you might just prefer the FF5s. They aren't the same by any means aside from the fact that they both have relatively balanced tunings. The BKs have a touch of warmth and come across as more detailed to my ears, but the FF5s present a cleaner sound with a touch more brightness in the treble. In the end, it'll just be down to taste as to which you prefer and both are capable buds so you might just end up keeping the pair. My problem comes in that I have several pairs that are all slightly different takes on balanced tuning and the FF5s might end up being the least impressive if that makes sense.

I have a lot of gear so I generally don't like to add good pieces that end up just sitting around because I have something that does what it does better. I have a lot of listening left to do and I might actually have found something that the FF5s are very good at, but I'm still putting together a playlist to test this theory so I'm not going to say anymore on that just yet. I hope you're having the time of your life! The FF5s will be there when you get home so soak up the memories, bro!


----------



## tendou

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay, so after an hour of listening my very early/preliminary impressions are a bit of a mixed bag. The FF5s are a nicely balanced pair of buds with some good detail retrieval, a reasonably wide soundstage, and more treble extension than the FF3s. I would like a bit more depth to the soundstage, but that's more of a nitpick.
> 
> Where the negative comes in, though it's not really a negative per se, is that I think there are buds out there that do what the FF5s are trying to do better than the FF5s. If I was looking for a pair of buds in this price range with a good balanced sound signature I would pick the Yincrow RW-2000s or the Shozy BKs and possibly others over the FF5s. Not that the FF5s are a bad pair of buds. They're actually quite good, but they don't really excel at any one thing.
> 
> ...


Could you compare


JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay, so after an hour of listening my very early/preliminary impressions are a bit of a mixed bag. The FF5s are a nicely balanced pair of buds with some good detail retrieval, a reasonably wide soundstage, and more treble extension than the FF3s. I would like a bit more depth to the soundstage, but that's more of a nitpick.
> 
> Where the negative comes in, though it's not really a negative per se, is that I think there are buds out there that do what the FF5s are trying to do better than the FF5s. If I was looking for a pair of buds in this price range with a good balanced sound signature I would pick the Yincrow RW-2000s or the Shozy BKs and possibly others over the FF5s. Not that the FF5s are a bad pair of buds. They're actually quite good, but they don't really excel at any one thing.
> 
> ...


Could you compare with asura 3.0FE?

FF3 is really great. But the fit is not optimal for me. Though it still sounds good with that fit


----------



## o0genesis0o

From Fiio themselves


----------



## tendou

o0genesis0o said:


> From Fiio themselves


I'm a bit afraid whenever the manufacturer says certain IEM earbuds is good  with female vocal.🤔


----------



## Ohmboy

tendou said:


> I'm a bit afraid whenever the manufacturer says certain IEM earbuds is good with female vocal.🤔


X2 that tuning = Japanese tuning...think Final Audio’s A8000 etc


----------



## drewbadour

mt877 said:


> RW-3000s is one of my favorites.
> 
> Edit: What the heck is going on with the Head-fi server? Pages won't load and timeouts.


Dang, this hobby.... just when I thought I was done buying things and was satisfied with my collection...


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> From Fiio themselves


Man, I blew it!  I have only been listening to HipHop and Orchestral works with the FF3.... Pop may be the only genre I don't listen to at all and I enjoy the FF3 more than any other buds I've purchased.

In truth, I've always found this way of thinking a bit........ unusual.  Within the whole of American Pop, there may be 4 chords and 5 electronic instruments, but in K-Pop there may be 5 different genres in one song.  Both of these sub-genres contain a wide frequency range and imaging cues.  Acoustic music may have a more narrow frequency range more often, but I can't imagine that people who listen to acoustic instruments don't want to hear/feel pedal tones or upright basses to hi hats.  If genres were humans, this dichotomy would be racism in its purest, most malicious form (joking of course but there's an element of truth here).   A specialist bud just means it has dramatic problems.  I don't think either of these buds are going to be specialists in that regard.  My favorite thing to listen to on my FF3 is solo piano.......


----------



## drewbadour (Dec 9, 2022)

For those of you curious, the stem is the perfect length for a great fit with UTWS5!

This fact alone will likely make this the set that gets the most ear time now


----------



## mt877 (Dec 9, 2022)

drewbadour said:


> Dang, this hobby.... just when I thought I was done buying things and was satisfied with my collection...


G.A.S. rearing its ugly head again... you can be totally satisfied with what you have already, but the lingering feeling that something out there may be better won't leave...



drewbadour said:


> For those of you curious, the stem is the perfect length for a great fit with UTWS5!
> 
> This fact alone will likely make this the set that gets the most ear time now


Nice! Just as I imagined the length of the stem would look. How's the fit (you already mentioned fit) and more importantly how's the sound? The UTWS5 have more than enough power to drive the FF5. The UTWS3 would probably work just fine too.


----------



## chavez

FAAAAAAAEAL at it again. Looks like Datura got a sibling.



€ 74,67  17%OFF | FAAEAL Lilium Earphones 14.6mm LDM Nano Diamond Diaphragm Headset Metal Dynamic HiFi Music Sport Earbuds With Detachable Cable
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKK6r4A


----------



## drewbadour

mt877 said:


> G.A.S. rearing its ugly head again... you can be totally satisfied with what you have already, but the lingering feeling that something out there may be better won't leave...
> 
> 
> Nice! Just as I imagined the length of the stem would look. How's the fit and more importantly how's the sound? The UTWS5 have more than enough power to drive the FF5. The UTWS3 would probably work just fine too.


Fit is perfect - the hooks rest perfectly on my ears without applying pressure, and the rotation of the MMCX allows for secure fine-tuning of angle which improved the sound for me a bit but ymmv!

They sound great! Not really hearing too much of a difference between sources to my ears. UTWS5 is way more than enough power (I have it set to like 30% volume).


----------



## FranQL

drewbadour said:


> Fit is perfect - the hooks rest perfectly on my ears without applying pressure, and the rotation of the MMCX allows for secure fine-tuning of angle which improved the sound for me a bit but ymmv!
> 
> They sound great! Not really hearing too much of a difference between sources to my ears. UTWS5 is way more than enough power (I have it set to like 30% volume).



and what great hair!!!!!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

tendou said:


> Could you compare
> 
> Could you compare with asura 3.0FE?
> 
> FF3 is really great. But the fit is not optimal for me. Though it still sounds good with that fit



I no longer have the Asura 3.0FEs, but I can tell you that the FF5s aren't as warm or as mid forward as the Asuras. Those are the two things that stand out from memory.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> From Fiio themselves



The funny thing is that I don't find the FF5s to be nearly as mid forward/centric (especially in the upper mids) as most "female poison" tunes buds I have tried. The upper mids on a lot of those kinds of buds border on being harsh, honkey, or strident and that often carries over into too much energy in the lower treble and sometimes sibilance. The FF5s are actually pretty well balanced to my ear, and aside from a little bit of grain in the lower treble, I don't hear anything that I would find offensive. When I listen to the FF5s I don't associate them with other femal vocal specialist buds.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

chavez said:


> FAAAAAAAEAL at it again. Looks like Datura got a sibling.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A 2-pin earbud? You know I'm gonna have to try this one out! I'm just not sure they'll get here before I head out on tour, but we'll see. BTW, I have ways wanted to try the Daturas (pro, x, or both), but I haven't been able to find a pair. Anyone want to help a brother out with that? 😁

Anyways, FAAEAL Lillium ordered along with DQSM PD21. 🤞


----------



## drewbadour (Dec 9, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I no longer have the Asura 3.0FEs, but I can tell you that the FF5s aren't as warm or as mid forward as the Asuras. Those are the two things that stand out from memory.


Just did a quick A/B and I can confirm this. Asura is warmer! It's also darker!


----------



## lushblush

drewbadour said:


> For those of you curious, the stem is the perfect length for a great fit with UTWS5!
> 
> This fact alone will likely make this the set that gets the most ear time now



Dear Fiio,

I want a detachable ff3

Thank you


----------



## JAnonymous5150

drewbadour said:


> Just did a quick A/B and I can confirm this. Asura is warmer!



And my girl says I have a memory like a sieve...😎


----------



## feverfive

:sigh:  I'm not at all impatiently waiting for the FF5 I ordered the same day as many of you who have received them already.  Mine seem to be in some sort of Purgatory; AE tracking says they cleared Customs and were handed off to local courier morning of Dec. 7; USPS tracking says still awaiting package.  I promise, I normally wouldn't care, but this is the first audio purchase (beyond some ear tips this past summer) for me since like last January.


----------



## dsonance

JAnonymous5150 said:


> A 2-pin earbud? You know I'm gonna have to try this one out! I'm just not sure they'll get here before I head out on tour, but we'll see. BTW, I have ways wanted to try the Daturas (pro, x, or both), but I haven't been able to find a pair. Anyone want to help a brother out with that? 😁
> 
> Anyways, FAAEAL Lillium ordered along with DQSM PD21. 🤞


Fingers crossed, it's better than the other recent 2-pin earbud in your collection, the TRN EMX


----------



## dsonance

JAnonymous5150 said:


> And my girl says I have a memory like a sieve...😎


A sieve suggests that you do retain certain things. Now we know what kinds they are.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

dsonance said:


> A sieve suggests that you do retain certain things. Now we know what kinds they are.



Never thought of it that way lol! 😂


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> Man, I blew it!  I have only been listening to HipHop and Orchestral works with the FF3.... Pop may be the only genre I don't listen to at all and I enjoy the FF3 more than any other buds I've purchased.
> 
> In truth, I've always found this way of thinking a bit........ unusual.  Within the whole of American Pop, there may be 4 chords and 5 electronic instruments, but in K-Pop there may be 5 different genres in one song.  Both of these sub-genres contain a wide frequency range and imaging cues.  Acoustic music may have a more narrow frequency range more often, but I can't imagine that people who listen to acoustic instruments don't want to hear/feel pedal tones or upright basses to hi hats.  If genres were humans, this dichotomy would be racism in its purest, most malicious form (joking of course but there's an element of truth here).   A specialist bud just means it has dramatic problems.  I don't think either of these buds are going to be specialists in that regard.  My favorite thing to listen to on my FF3 is solo piano.......



I always discard manufacturers’ opinion about “suitable genres” anyway, because each genres have all kinds of variations, especially for “pop”, “jazz”, and “classical”.

Transducers, to me, are a last layer of filter or EQ applied on all tracks of all musics before they reach my ears. So transducers should be tuned as “flat” and un-opinionated as possible. The more one optimise for a few songs, the more one sounds weird with others.

Now, what a “flat” in-ear target is is another issue. To me, it’s a tastefully adjusted Harman curve.



JAnonymous5150 said:


> The funny thing is that I don't find the FF5s to be nearly as mid forward/centric (especially in the upper mids) as most "female poison" tunes buds I have tried. The upper mids on a lot of those kinds of buds border on being harsh, honkey, or strident and that often carries over into too much energy in the lower treble and sometimes sibilance. The FF5s are actually pretty well balanced to my ear, and aside from a little bit of grain in the lower treble, I don't hear anything that I would find offensive. When I listen to the FF5s I don't associate them with other femal vocal specialist buds.



The treble grain seems to be Fiio’s DD house sound by now. I see this issue popping up in the discussion of both FD5 and FD7.

Still eagerly waiting and finger-crossed. If it gets decently close to Serratus but manage to avoid the treble glare at 8k, I’ll be very happy


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> The funny thing is that I don't find the FF5s to be nearly as mid forward/centric (especially in the upper mids) as most "female poison" tunes buds I have tried. The upper mids on a lot of those kinds of buds border on being harsh, honkey, or strident and that often carries over into too much energy in the lower treble and sometimes sibilance. The FF5s are actually pretty well balanced to my ear, and aside from a little bit of grain in the lower treble, I don't hear anything that I would find offensive. When I listen to the FF5s I don't associate them with other femal vocal specialist buds.


So, you wouldn't say they are up there with the Maria II (for instance) where female poison is concerned? I only ask because I know from reading your "impressions" about other buds, it takes a whole lot more for you to feel something is "ice pick" levels than it would for me (as another for instance). 


feverfive said:


> :sigh:  I'm not at all impatiently waiting for the FF5 I ordered the same day as many of you who have received them already.  Mine seem to be in some sort of Purgatory; AE tracking says they cleared Customs and were handed off to local courier morning of Dec. 7; USPS tracking says still awaiting package.  I promise, I normally wouldn't care, but this is the first audio purchase (beyond some ear tips this past summer) for me since like last January.


Well, yours have gotten further than mine. My tracking says that it is "leaving from departure country/region" at 12:00 PM today. It hasn't even reached customs yet (let alone the US).


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> So, you wouldn't say they are up there with the Maria II (for instance) where female poison is concerned? I only ask because I know from reading your "impressions" about other buds, it takes a whole lot more for you to feel something is "ice pick" levels than it would for me (as another for instance).
> 
> Well, yours have gotten further than mine. My tracking says that it is "leaving from departure country/region" at 12:00 PM today. It hasn't even reached customs yet (let alone the US).



No, they aren't even in the same zip code as the Maria II.


----------



## ttorbic (Dec 9, 2022)

This portable amp looks promising: https://a.aliexpress.com/_EvUdpNh
750 mW output for 50 USD!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

ttorbic said:


> This portable DAC amp looks promising: https://a.aliexpress.com/_EvUdpNh
> 750 mW output for 50 USD!



I thought the HA9 was just an amp. BTW, I have heard that HAAFEE products are known for having terrible battery life. That said, that's some good power for $50 and if you get it you have to let me/us know how it is


----------



## samandhi

ttorbic said:


> This portable DAC amp looks promising: https://a.aliexpress.com/_EvUdpNh
> 750 mW output for 50 USD!


That seems like a pretty good deal for an entry level amp. The only issues I see (that are obvious without further research) is the SNR is VERY low @102dB (or is it 115dB, as seen in the "specifications" tab), and it seems the only way to hook up to it (from a phone or DAP) is through 3.5mm SE, which would mean double amping your signal. 

Strangely enough, it says no DSD, which would indicate that it is an amp/DAC but is says nothing about it being as such. If it were JUST an amp, it should be able to play any sound as long as you are hooked up into the LI of the amp.... Interesting! Once again AE gets facts jumbled (or is it the manufacturer). 

On the other hand, that seems like some good power for very cheap. I wonder if it is class A discrete amplifier?! At that price I sort of doubt it, but one never knows. This could be pretty nifty for non-critical listening. 

Thanks for sharing!


----------



## 4ceratops

It's only an amplifier, not even a DAC.


----------



## ttorbic (Dec 9, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I thought the HA9 was just an amp. BTW, I have heard that HAAFEE products are known for having terrible battery life. That said, that's some good power for $50 and if you get it you have to let me/us know how it is


You're right! corrected! Here's a video review from youtube:


----------



## samandhi

samandhi said:


> Strangely enough, it says no DSD, which would indicate that it is an amp/DAC but is says nothing about it being as such. If it were JUST an amp, it should be able to play any sound as long as you are hooked up into the LI of the amp.... Interesting! Once again AE gets facts jumbled (or is it the manufacturer).


I feel like I need to explain a bit further what I meant by this. Given that you can only hook up to it via analog signal, it can't be a DAC also. This was the confusion when I read that it can't play DSD.....


----------



## dsonance

samandhi said:


> I feel like I need to explain a bit further what I meant by this. Given that you can only hook up to it via analog signal, it can't be a DAC also. This was the confusion when I read that it can't play DSD.....


I was actually wondering about the other part of that post, where you said hooking it up from a phone or DAP through SE would be double-amping. Are there better ways of hooking an amp (not a DAC/amp) to a phone?


----------



## fooltoque

drewbadour said:


> For those of you curious, the stem is the perfect length for a great fit with UTWS5!
> 
> This fact alone will likely make this the set that gets the most ear time now



I'm so doing this! Thanks!



feverfive said:


> :sigh:  I'm not at all impatiently waiting for the FF5 I ordered the same day as many of you who have received them already.  Mine seem to be in some sort of Purgatory; AE tracking says they cleared Customs and were handed off to local courier morning of Dec. 7; USPS tracking says still awaiting package.  I promise, I normally wouldn't care, but this is the first audio purchase (beyond some ear tips this past summer) for me since like last January.



Despite having listed as 'shipped' a week ago, mine have yet to update their tracking information. I get the feeling that they just listed it as shipped to avoid the automatic cancellation, but never actually shipped it yet.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

dsonance said:


> I was actually wondering about the other part of that post, where you said hooking it up from a phone or DAP through SE would be double-amping. Are there better ways of hooking an amp (not a DAC/amp) to a phone?



3.5mm to dual RCA (essentially the same thing with a different connector). Also, if you're connecting from something with a dedicated line out then the signal is supposed to leave at a predetermined level without going through a potentiated amplification stage. I get what you're saying though, as connecting phones and daps over 3.5mm aux cables from the headphone out is fairly common.


----------



## samandhi

dsonance said:


> I was actually wondering about the other part of that post, where you said hooking it up from a phone or DAP through SE would be double-amping. Are there better ways of hooking an amp (not a DAC/amp) to a phone?


Well, for phones, you would be limited nowadays as most makers are opting for no 3.5mm jack. As for DAPs a lot of contemporary DAPs have true line out (though they are normally balanced, so you would have to get a specifically wired cable to avoid negative shorting, going from balanced to SE). 

So really, the answer to your question is no, not really any better ways with the current outputs from a phone (unless you see BT as better).


----------



## dsonance

JAnonymous5150 said:


> 3.5mm to dual RCA (essentially the same thing with a different connector). Also, if you're connecting from something with a dedicated line out then the signal is supposed to leave at a predetermined level without going through a potentiated amplification stage. I get what you're saying though, as connecting phones and daps over 3.5mm aux cables from the headphone out is fairly common.


Yeah, exactly. And, having a Line Out port on a phone is pretty uncommon, if at all heard of. So, I'm not sure how that first amplification stage can be avoided, if the phone's own DAC is used as the source.

I'm asking because I just ordered an NX7, with the idea of using it with my old Note9 as a "portable" DAP. A 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable is exactly how I was going to connect the two.

Also, my thinking was that 3.5mm to RCA cables didn't do anything better than the 3.5mm to 3.5mm ones did. Is that incorrect?


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Also, if you're connecting from something with a dedicated line out then the signal is supposed to leave at a predetermined level without going through a potentiated amplification stage.


You have some great thoughts here, and while probably 98% of DAPs DO do this, there is a (growing) small few that actually use digital volume control over the volume coming from a dedicated LO; iBasso being one of them.


----------



## samandhi

dsonance said:


> Yeah, exactly. And, having a Line Out port on a phone is pretty uncommon, if at all heard of. So, I'm not sure how that first amplification stage can be avoided, if the phone's own DAC is used as the source.
> 
> I'm asking because I just ordered an NX7, with the idea of using it with my old Note9 as a "portable" DAP. A 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable is exactly how I was going to connect the two.
> 
> Also, my thinking was that 3.5mm to RCA cables didn't do anything better than the 3.5mm to 3.5mm ones did. Is that incorrect?


No, you are correct in your thinking.. 3.5mm and RCA are very similar in their quality of transfer (although giving the RCA just a super small advantage). 

There really is no way to bypass the double amping if using an amp only with a phone. If you are looking for the best sound you can get (with the gear you mention), I would look for the technicalities of the amp to be pretty good so that you WON'T have any noise due to double amping. 

Congrats on your new shiny, BTW!


----------



## samandhi

Given how crappy some phone makers implement the 3.5mm jack in phones, I MIGHT argue that using LDAC or AptX HD BT is a cleaner connection from the phone to the amp.


----------



## o0genesis0o

dsonance said:


> I'm asking because I just ordered an NX7, with the idea of using it with my old Note9 as a "portable" DAP. A 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable is exactly how I was going to connect the two.


I tried this one with Topping G5 (essentially NX7 + an Ess dac chip). The amp section intensifies whatever quality or flaws there is with your sources. For example, extra power does not change the way apple dongle sounds nor its staging. G5 as all in one sound different from G5 + apple dongle.

I guess my point is keep your expectation under control for this case


----------



## JAnonymous5150

dsonance said:


> Yeah, exactly. And, having a Line Out port on a phone is pretty uncommon, if at all heard of. So, I'm not sure how that first amplification stage can be avoided, if the phone's own DAC is used as the source.
> 
> I'm asking because I just ordered an NX7, with the idea of using it with my old Note9 as a "portable" DAP. A 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable is exactly how I was going to connect the two.
> 
> Also, my thinking was that 3.5mm to RCA cables didn't do anything better than the 3.5mm to 3.5mm ones did. Is that incorrect?



That's a nice purchase, bro. The NX7 gives you a lot of clean power and flexibility. It's a nice piece of gear. And like @samandhi said, you're right on with the aux cable connection.


----------



## dsonance

samandhi said:


> No, you are correct in your thinking.. 3.5mm and RCA are very similar in their quality of transfer (although giving the RCA just a super small advantage).
> 
> There really is no way to bypass the double amping if using an amp only with a phone. If you are looking for the best sound you can get (with the gear you mention), I would look for the technicalities of the amp to be pretty good so that you WON'T have any noise due to double amping.
> 
> Congrats on your new shiny, BTW!





JAnonymous5150 said:


> That's a nice purchase, bro. The NX7 gives you a lot of clean power and flexibility. It's a nice piece of gear. And like @samandhi said, you're right on with the aux cable connection.



Thank you! I'm hoping the Note9+NX7 combo will have decent SQ and be able to give enough power to the Yinman and the TGXEar's buds. But, we'll see. What I read about the NX7 measurements did sound pretty good. Have no idea how Note9's 3.5mm output is regarded, though.


samandhi said:


> Given how crappy some phone makers implement the 3.5mm jack in phones, I MIGHT argue that using LDAC or AptX HD BT is a cleaner connection from the phone to the amp.





o0genesis0o said:


> I tried this one with Topping G5 (essentially NX7 + an Ess dac chip). The amp section intensifies whatever quality or flaws there is with your sources. For example, extra power does not change the way apple dongle sounds nor its staging. G5 as all in one sound different from G5 + apple dongle.
> 
> I guess my point is keep your expectation under control for this case



In the worst case scenario, I'll add a USB dongle to the combo. I have a DC06 and W2 on the way as well. Apart from the whole thing ending up being rather unwieldy, I'm cautiously optimistic


----------



## samandhi

Having said all of that about new amps, I might mention (only because of my excitement of course) that iBasso is coming soon with another amp card for my DX300. It will be another Nutube Korg tube amp, but this time it will have two 4.4mm balanced outputs (rather than the two 3.5mm SE outputs in the current one they sell). This is pretty big because the current one (Amp13) can't power my beloved Yinmans, and some harder to drive planars I have, only having 200mW from low voltage output and 400mW from the high voltage output. 

Now, I don't know what the numbers are going to be as nothing has been announced as of yet but being balanced will mean that there is potential for (much) more power/current at the output stage. This excites me as I will have 3 different sound signatures (3 of the 4 amp cards) in a single device ranging from super SS, to nice analog, to warm tube sound (and the power to drive anything I might want to drive) all in an AIO portable/pocketable device + 15 hours of battery time (a bit less with the tube amp cards though). 

As my grandson (3) would say, "I am besited (excited)"!


----------



## samandhi (Dec 9, 2022)

dsonance said:


> Thank you! I'm hoping the Note9+NX7 combo will have decent SQ and be able to give enough power to the Yinman and the TGXEar's buds. But, we'll see. What I read about the NX7 measurements did sound pretty good. Have no idea how Note9's 3.5mm output is regarded, though.


Oh, you are in luck, because the Note 9 is my current phone, and I can say that the 3.5mm jack is of pretty good quality, though the amp/DAC can be a bit on the warm side (if you are looking for more air, treble, or clarity). The good news is that it isn't horrible (like some other phones I have used) at all. Sounds like you have some good stuff coming together... 


dsonance said:


> In the worst case scenario, I'll add a USB dongle to the combo. I have a DC06 and W2 on the way as well. Apart from the whole thing ending up being rather unwieldy, I'm cautiously optimistic


I can't find them ATM, but I am sure there are some still out there, but if you don't want to use regular rubber bands (as a stacking kit of sorts), I use these for any stacks I might use (and still do with the older FiiO equipment):



Spoiler












Then there is this, which has since been disontinued, and the faceplate wouldn't fit, but you get the idea (rubber bands, and feet so the devices don't rub against each other). BTW, all of those bands fit the Note 9, as I have used my FiiO E17, and E17K with my Note phone.


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> Oh, you are in luck, because the Note 9 is my current phone, and I can say that the 3.5mm jack is of pretty good quality, though the amp/DAC can be a bit on the warm side (if you are looking for more air, treble, or clarity). The good news is that it isn't horrible (like some other phones I have used) at all. Sounds like you have some good stuff coming together...
> 
> I can't find them ATM, but I am sure there are some still out there, but if you don't want to use regular rubber bands (as a stacking kit of sorts), I use these for any stacks I might use (and still do with the older FiiO equipment):
> 
> ...


Topping provides all the necessary rubber bands, silicone patches, and cables to stack, afaik


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Oh, you are in luck, because the Note 9 is my current phone, and I can say that the 3.5mm jack is of pretty good quality, though the amp/DAC can be a bit on the warm side (if you are looking for more air, treble, or clarity). The good news is that it isn't horrible (like some other phones I have used) at all. Sounds like you have some good stuff coming together...
> 
> I can't find them ATM, but I am sure there are some still out there, but if you don't want to use regular rubber bands (as a stacking kit of sorts), I use these for any stacks I might use (and still do with the older FiiO equipment):
> 
> ...



That kit isn't a bad idea. I might just put together my own version with the feet.


----------



## samandhi (Dec 9, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Topping provides all the necessary rubber bands, silicone patches, and cables to stack, afaik


That is fantastic to see someone still makes these kits. I thought they all went "the way of the dodo" with the advent of the AIO DAPs popularity rise....


----------



## samandhi

Some of the stacking gear i have collected over the years, from cables, to bands, to adapters, to pads.



Spoiler


----------



## dsonance

samandhi said:


> Some of the stacking gear i have collected over the years, from cables, to bands, to adapters, to pads.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Very cool! Makes me think, though, that it's not without a reason you decided, after all the stacking experience, that a single device modular DAP was the best way to go...

But, I'm still in the experimentation phase  And, having an extra phone I can use as a dedicated DAP, combined with the current price tags on the 1W+ DAPs make stacking a really easy decision.

It looks like it'll take a couple of weeks for the NX7 to arrive, but I'll update you guys on how it all works out. Thank you for your support!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Topping provides all the necessary rubber bands, silicone patches, and cables to stack, afaik



Yup, my two topping devices N1XS and N4X both came with the bands as well.


----------



## mt877

All this talk about portable headphone amps and double amping. I forgot to put up a link to my small Little Bear B4-X with Burson V5i-D review I did a little while back. I even got a from John Burson (wow, how cool). I don't know how many portable headphone amps actually have gain or simply act as headphone driving buffers, but the Little Bear B4-X only has modest gain in the tube stage and is unity gain at the op-amp stage. The main feature of the B4-X is to introduce ear pleasing 2nd order harmonic distortion and provide headphone driving power via the dual parallel unity gain op-amp stage. I suspect other portable amps that only have analog inputs may be acting as buffers and using the op-amp stage to provide the power to drive higher impedance gear that your low power phone or DAP can't drive well. Just my thoughts.


----------



## samandhi

dsonance said:


> Very cool! Makes me think, though, that it's not without a reason you decided, after all the stacking experience, that a single device modular DAP was the best way to go...
> 
> But, I'm still in the experimentation phase  And, having an extra phone I can use as a dedicated DAP, combined with the current price tags on the 1W+ DAPs make stacking a really easy decision.
> 
> It looks like it'll take a couple of weeks for the NX7 to arrive, but I'll update you guys on how it all works out. Thank you for your support!


It took a very long time before I was convinced that a single solution was viable for my needs, so don't abandon your thoughts of what you are putting together, as it can be just as good for much less money. I simply got tired of carrying around all the gear, and since I found a DAP that does everything that most stacks (that I have come across) can do, it was indeed a "no brainer" for me. The downside is that there is indeed more cost incurred. Each one of those amp cards I mention for my DX is something like $250. But it also replaces the incurrence of any cost for desktop gear (for me), so the cost is justifiable for me.  

I think what you are doing is fantastic, and you will (more than likely) love it. I used to use my Note 4 phone (the last "best" phone from Samsung IMHO), and I was really happy with that until FiiO shocked the (audiophile) world with the X devices that were comparable to A&K $2000 devices for (something like) $200 to $300... 

Do update us on that amp (and the dongles too), as I am really becoming excited for you on this.


----------



## syazwaned

dsonance said:


> Thank you! I'm hoping the Note9+NX7 combo will have decent SQ and be able to give enough power to the Yinman and the TGXEar's buds. But, we'll see. What I read about the NX7 measurements did sound pretty good. Have no idea how Note9's 3.5mm output is regarded, though.
> 
> 
> 
> In the worst case scenario, I'll add a USB dongle to the combo. I have a DC06 and W2 on the way as well. Apart from the whole thing ending up being rather unwieldy, I'm cautiously optimistic


Lotoo Paw s2 has a dedicated line out if you looking for a nx7 dongle dac


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> All this talk about portable headphone amps and double amping. I forgot to put up a link to my small Little Bear B4-X with Burson V5i-D review I did a little while back. I even got a from John Burson (wow, how cool). I don't know how many portable headphone amps actually have gain or simply act as headphone driving buffers, but the Little Bear B4-X only has modest gain in the tube stage and is unity gain at the op-amp stage. The main feature of the B4-X is to introduce ear pleasing 2nd order harmonic distortion and provide headphone driving power via the dual parallel unity gain op-amp stage. I suspect other portable amps that only have analog inputs may be acting as buffers and using the op-amp stage to provide the power to drive higher impedance gear that your low power phone or DAP can't drive well. Just my thoughts.


I think you are totally right. And it is also probably why those makers don't list that fact... hehe Having said that, I suppose ignorance is bliss if it sounds really good right?   

You should write Mr. Burson and ask him to send you his take on the "best" opamps for that amp; I don't recall what they were ATM. I remember @miserybeforethemusic had one of those, and he got sent a set of upgrade opamps (super easy swap-out) and he said it was almost night and day different (in a good way). 

I might have a search on our PMs between each other and see if I can find which ones he used for that amp, if you are interested.


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> I think you are totally right. And it is also probably why those makers don't list that fact... hehe Having said that, I suppose ignorance is bliss if it sounds really good right?
> 
> You should write Mr. Burson and ask him to send you his take on the "best" opamps for that amp; I don't recall what they were ATM. I remember @miserybeforethemusic had one of those, and he got sent a set of upgrade opamps (super easy swap-out) and he said it was almost night and day different (in a good way).
> 
> I might have a search on our PMs between each other and see if I can find which ones he used for that amp, if you are interested.


I only tried a few op-amps in the Little Bear. The best is definitely the Burson V5i-D which is a dual hybrid discrete op-amp compared to the few other op-amps that I rolled through.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> I only tried a few op-amps in the Little Bear. The best is definitely the Burson V5i-D which is a dual hybrid discrete op-amp compared to the few other op-amps that I rolled through.


Yep, after a search, I found that you named the one I was looking for. Are those the ones you are currently using then?



			
				miserybeforethemusic said:
			
		

> Ooh something new and shiny arrived that I had completely forgotten about!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## samandhi

samandhi said:


> Yep, after a search, I found that you named the one I was looking for. Are those the ones you are currently using then?


Totally disregard this question, as I went back and reread your post, and you answered the question in the title of your link... Apologies, for not paying more attention... My brain is tired with all the work I've been subjected to..... doing.

I have been working at Grissom AFRB, and it is a two-hour (one way) trip to drive. I think the driving is wearing me out more than the actual work after 3 weeks straight of it... LOL


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Totally disregard this question, as I went back and reread your post, and you answered the question in the title of your link... Apologies, for not paying more attention... My brain is tired with all the work I've been subjected to..... doing.
> 
> I have been working at Grissom AFRB, and it is a two-hour (one way) trip to drive. I think the driving is wearing me out more than the actual work after 3 weeks straight of it... LOL


So the 2 top op-amps I tried in the B4-X is a full discrete Lusya OP8802 dual op-amps and the Burson V5i-D op-amps.

The OP8802 were excellent, ran very hot and would intermittently oscillate. I could probably fix the oscillation by adding some filter caps directly at the power supply pins (on board underside) of the op-amps. I then moved onto MUSES02 op-amps until trying the Burson V5i-D. The Burson's are staying in.


----------



## samandhi

BTW! @o0genesis0o I have been doing some catch-up tonight, and have been going back to read some of your recent reviews, and I have to say that you have are a very talented person. Fantastic flow to your thoughts (that could easily get jumbled were you a lesser "communicator"). I find them to be VERY understandable, and all the content that you go the "extra mile" to include makes everything come together in such a way that there is no way a person could NOT figure out what you are talking about. 

This all makes for the absolute best reviews (IMHO), because even if a person doesn't agree with your "preferred signature", they can still make an informed decision on purchasing said items (even blindly). Yours are the reviews that I look for when searching for new gear (whether I agree or not, which most times I do, but sometimes we might differ a bit; human nature).

Apologies that I haven't been around enough to compliment you earlier! Cheers mate!


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> That is fantastic to see someone still makes these kits. I thought they all went "the way of the dodo" with the advent of the AIO DAPs popularity rise....


How do I say this ...

I have Shanling M6 Ultra coming next week   Phone + G5 is more cumbersome that what I imagined (very heavy, almost dented my face when I dropped it). I have my doubt that the Shanling can match the sound quality of G5 though.


Anyone on a budget who wants to drive high impedance buds well, I recommend Hidizs S9 Pro (*not* the latest XO). Megatron is also alright, but if you like fidelity, S9 Pro is better. It should be noted that I have never found any dongle not having enough volume, even with HD800S. These specs wars make dongles unnecessarily loud whilst not sounding properly strong like a good DAP, battery amp, or desktop stack. Say, even sightly weaker dongles like XO sound crazy loud with Serratus at low volume, but yet the buds are not driven to full capability.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> So the 2 top op-amps I tried in the B4-X is a full discrete Lusya OP8802 dual op-amps and the Burson V5i-D op-amps.
> 
> The OP8802 were excellent, ran very hot and would intermittently oscillate. I could probably fix the oscillation by adding some filter caps directly at the power supply pins (on board underside) of the op-amps. I then moved onto MUSES02 op-amps until trying the Burson V5i-D. The Burson's are staying in.


Very interesting, and I didn't realize that there was so much that could be done with op-amps without having bias problems...


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> BTW! @o0genesis0o I have been doing some catch-up tonight, and have been going back to read some of your recent reviews, and I have to say that you have are a very talented person. Fantastic flow to your thoughts (that could easily get jumbled were you a lesser "communicator"). I find them to be VERY understandable, and all the content that you go the "extra mile" to include makes everything come together in such a way that there is no way a person could NOT figure out what you are talking about.
> 
> This all makes for the absolute best reviews (IMHO), because even if a person doesn't agree with your "preferred signature", they can still make an informed decision on purchasing said items (even blindly). Yours are the reviews that I look for when searching for new gear (whether I agree or not, which most times I do, but sometimes we might differ a bit; human nature).
> 
> Apologies that I haven't been around enough to compliment you earlier! Cheers mate!



That's very kind of you! It's funny how the writing (bulls**ting) I do for fun receives more praise and attention that the actual work that I write  One day when I have kids (or next year when I recruit staffs), I should remember to praise people.


----------



## dsonance

Reading @mt877's B4-X review brings to mind this question: is there a consensus on the best volume settings in the double-amping situation, between the source (phone, DAP, DAC/amp) and the additional amp? What is the best way to minimize amping distortions, and maximize the original signal (in other words, what gives the best SNR overall)?

I know that for the BT-connected BTR7, for example, Fiio recommends to set the volume on the source to the max, and control the output volume by the BTR7's volume controls only. But, I'm not sure the same principle applies to wired analog connections as well.


----------



## Penon

*Ourart QJ21 Selected Edition* will be released soon 

Cable: Single crystal copper silver-plated
Plug: 3-in-1 detachable plug (3.5mm Audio, 2.5mm/4.4mm balanced)


----------



## o0genesis0o

dsonance said:


> Reading @mt877's B4-X review brings to mind this question: is there a consensus on the best volume settings in the double-amping situation, between the source (phone, DAP, DAC/amp) and the additional amp? What is the best way to minimize amping distortions, and maximize the original signal (in other words, what gives the best SNR overall)?
> 
> I know that for the BT-connected BTR7, for example, Fiio recommends to set the volume on the source to the max, and control the output volume by the BTR7's volume controls only. But, I'm not sure the same principle applies to wired analog connections as well.


My Hidizs AP80 Pro X automatically maxes out the volume when switching on line out mode. 

With that being said, I think 50% or 70% at source might be better, as the weaker amp on the source might clip or distorted (fancy words, I don't quite understand   ) if driven 100%. For example, the AP80 Pro X was much noisier when amped by G5 than by itself.


----------



## dsonance

samandhi said:


> BTW! @o0genesis0o I have been doing some catch-up tonight, and have been going back to read some of your recent reviews, and I have to say that you have are a very talented person. Fantastic flow to your thoughts (that could easily get jumbled were you a lesser "communicator"). I find them to be VERY understandable, and all the content that you go the "extra mile" to include makes everything come together in such a way that there is no way a person could NOT figure out what you are talking about.
> 
> This all makes for the absolute best reviews (IMHO), because even if a person doesn't agree with your "preferred signature", they can still make an informed decision on purchasing said items (even blindly). Yours are the reviews that I look for when searching for new gear (whether I agree or not, which most times I do, but sometimes we might differ a bit; human nature).


I second this! I found @o0genesis0o's JD7 review so informative, I recommended it to my kid for general educational purposes. Well done, mate!


----------



## samandhi (Dec 10, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> I have Shanling M6 Ultra coming next week


Congrats on your new shiny. While you may not find it better than the G5, I think you will at least love the "musical" ability that Shanling is known for.


o0genesis0o said:


> These specs wars make dongles unnecessarily loud whilst not sounding properly strong like a good DAP, battery amp, or desktop stack. Say, even sightly weaker dongles like XO sound crazy loud with Serratus at low volume, but yet the buds are not driven to full capability.


I think that you are onto a subject (IMO quite accurately I might add) that throws much dissention among those that don't totally understand the difference or correlation between gain, volume, and under damping. It seems as though contemporary DACs/amps are capable of boosting the signal to volume levels that are sufficient as to give the impression that "it must be driving it fully because it gets TOO loud". It is very difficult to explain that it is NOT so, and often those that do fully understand it get accused of audiophile "voodoo"... LOL



o0genesis0o said:


> That's very kind of you! It's funny how the writing (bulls**ting) I do for fun receives more praise and attention that the actual work that I write  One day when I have kids (or next year when I recruit staffs), I should remember to praise people.


Praise is the key to encouraging to continue to do what you appreciate. And while it might just be for fun for you, others might find it a (horridly) difficult task at best. I have always had a hard time describing what I hear, feel, like, dislike, etc... where sound and headgear are concerned in any meaningful way that is different than what I might have "spouted" three years ago (cookie cutter).

Trust me when I say that you (and others that take the time to do great reviews) inspire more than simply making people want to purchase the "review" items they might like, but you are actually helping those in need of being able to communicate better in this (mostly) subjective hobby that we all love. It really is a tough thing to do, if you think about it. It is much akin to trying to describe to a blind person a color.... 


dsonance said:


> Reading @mt877's B4-X review brings to mind this question: is there a consensus on the best volume settings in the double-amping situation, between the source (phone, DAP, DAC/amp) and the additional amp? What is the best way to minimize amping distortions, and maximize the original signal (in other words, what gives the best SNR overall)?
> 
> I know that for the BT-connected BTR7, for example, Fiio recommends to set the volume on the source to the max, and control the output volume by the BTR7's volume controls only. But, I'm not sure the same principle applies to wired analog connections as well.


It has been my experience in stacking phones, iPods, etc... to external amps (only) that the best volume on the source usually depends on the device, but as a rule of thumb, I start at 80% and go up or down until it becomes flat or distorted. Then I leave the volume alone on that and use the amp volume to control overall volume. That's just my $.02 though!

The reason I say that it also depends on the device used as a source is because there are variables that can't be accounted for such as gain, and any sort of DSP. Is the playback bit-perfect? Is there a system-wide sort of DSP going on (think Apple)? Things like that.

Having said all of that, using 100% for BT is much different than an analog signal. There will be no distorion (unless caused by the amp itself) when using BT from source to amplifier.


----------



## samandhi (Dec 10, 2022)

@mt877 I just read your review also, and I really like the way it is written. Very well done bro! It makes me want to buy one just to experiment with it also. Is the tube changeable also, or is it soldered to the PCB?

I have noticed on my Amp13 card that there is a L, R, and biasing pot also. And iBasso claims that each card is hand calibrated for each individual Nutube module and op-amp (of which there are two, parallel on one output, and serial on the other).


----------



## mt877

dsonance said:


> Reading @mt877's B4-X review brings to mind this question: is there a consensus on the best volume settings in the double-amping situation, between the source (phone, DAP, DAC/amp) and the additional amp? What is the best way to minimize amping distortions, and maximize the original signal (in other words, what gives the best SNR overall)?
> 
> I know that for the BT-connected BTR7, for example, Fiio recommends to set the volume on the source to the max, and control the output volume by the BTR7's volume controls only. But, I'm not sure the same principle applies to wired analog connections as well.


Typically it's recommended to set the source to max or line level for best SNR and dynamic range. I just found if I did that with the Burson op-amps I wasn't getting the sound I liked out of the B4-X. I kept going back and forth between line level out and adjusting the volume pot on the B4-X and maxing out the volume on the B4-X and adjusting the volume at the source and I kept coming back to the latter because that sounded best to me. Like @samandhi and @o0genesis0o I generally set the source lower than max, something between 60 and 80% max and then adjust the amp volume.


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> @mt877 I just read your review also, and I really like the way it is written. Very well done bro! It makes me want to buy one just to experiment with it also. Is the tube changeable also, or is it soldered to the PCB?
> 
> I have noticed on my Amp13 card that there is a L, R, and biasing pot also. And iBasso claims that each card is hand calibrated for each individual Nutube module.


The tubes are soldered in. They run at such a low current they'll probably last forever.


----------



## samandhi (Dec 10, 2022)

mt877 said:


> The tubes are soldered in. They run at such a low current they'll probably last forever.


Ah! So no tube rolling (also) for you (not that it isn't possible though). They also don't look to be standard tubes either. Are they Nutubes (with LED and wire), or are they claimed to be a regular tube (a true filament)?

Edit: From the pictures it does indeed look like a true tube IMO.


----------



## dsonance (Dec 10, 2022)

mt877 said:


> Typically it's recommended to set the source to max or line level for best SNR and dynamic range. I just found if I did that with the Burson op-amps I wasn't getting the sound I liked out of the B4-X. I kept going back and forth between line level out and adjusting the volume pot on the B4-X and maxing out the volume on the B4-X and adjusting the volume at the source and I kept coming back to the latter because that sounded best to me. Like @samandhi and @o0genesis0o I generally set the source lower than max, something between 60 and 80% max and then adjust the amp volume.


Apologies if this is a dumb question, but how does one determine what volume setting corresponds to the line level on a phone or a DAP?


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Ah! So no tube rolling (also) for you (not that it isn't possible though). They also don't look to be standard tubes either. Are they Nutubes (with LED and wire), or are they claimed to be a regular tube (a true filament)?
> 
> Edit: From the pictures it does indeed look like a true tube IMO.


Real miniature tubes. Raytheon JAN5784WB in the latest revision B4-X's. The filaments do glow, no fake glow of LEDs.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> My Hidizs AP80 Pro X automatically maxes out the volume when switching on line out mode.
> 
> With that being said, I think 50% or 70% at source might be better, as the weaker amp on the source might clip or distorted (fancy words, I don't quite understand   ) if driven 100%. For example, the AP80 Pro X was much noisier when amped by G5 than by itself.



Assuming it is a true line out, it should be lowering the voltage and maxing the volume, minus a buffer, so clipping should never enter the equation because the amp isn't actually being driven near its full capacity. Now whether or not that is a true line out, I don't know.

Edit: A true line out isn't meant to have variable volume. It's whole point is to provide a steady signal for processing/amplification by another device.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

dsonance said:


> Apologies if this is a dumb question, but how does one determine what volume setting corresponds to the line level on a phone or a DAP?



If you have line out and not just a headphone out it should be designed to operate at 100% volume. If you're using the headphone out as a line out some manufacturers have a recommendation (like Cayin with the RU6), but you may just have to play it by ear and find the volume setting that gives you the best usable volume range without introducing distortion or clipping and without being so low that you're losing detail and dynamic range


----------



## JAnonymous5150

BTW, for those interested, I will be back on Discord as of 9AM tomorrow when I sign some paperwork and my account will officially be back to being mine. See you guys over there soon! 👍🤘😎


----------



## ttorbic

My poor TGX Ripples is still stuck in customs 😭 Been 19 days since he posted it. Poor TGX has contacted the courier service twice already but all we can do is wait until the official investigation is over. I suspect it's due to the series of strikes by the Royal Mail employees that's causing mountains of packages to be stuck at customs. (But I do hope RM employees' conditions improve!). 

If anyone in the UK is ordering stuff from overseas, be wary of long delays!


----------



## Kamikaze777

Hi! I would like to ask for your help! I would like to upgrade my Yincrow x6. I realy like the bass, but would need something faster, at least so punchy and deep, just more controlled and detailed. Budget around 50 $, but can stretch a little if needed! I can drive also power hungry buds. Any suggestions? Thx


----------



## ShaneyMac

Kamikaze777 said:


> Hi! I would like to ask for your help! I would like to upgrade my Yincrow x6. I realy like the bass, but would need something faster, at least so punchy and deep, just more controlled and detailed. Budget around 50 $, but can stretch a little if needed! I can drive also power hungry buds. Any suggestions? Thx


Rikubuds Berserker 1 is around 50€
Real upgrade on x6


----------



## jogawag (Dec 10, 2022)

Kamikaze777 said:


> Hi! I would like to ask for your help! I would like to upgrade my Yincrow x6. I realy like the bass, but would need something faster, at least so punchy and deep, just more controlled and detailed. Budget around 50 $, but can stretch a little if needed! I can drive also power hungry buds. Any suggestions? Thx


Yincrow RW-9, 23 $
Solid update of x6.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Okay, for those who were looking for an EM5 to FF5 comparison it's fairly simple. The EM5 has significantly higher levels of bass though they have similar treble energy. The mids of the EM5s come across as taking a step back from the bass and treble whereas they're right up front on the FF5s. The EM5s have greater detail retrieval compared to the FF5s, but not by much. Even though the EM5s have more bass than the FF5s, the bass on the FF5s comes off as being tighter and more articulate.

Overall, the lower bass levels and more forward mids (especially upper mids) make the FF5s come off as the brighter of the two. Based on some comments I had heard before I had the FF5s I was expecting them to be much more similar to the EM5s than they are. It's basically a v-shape tuning on the EM5s and a balanced leaning towards bright tuning on the FF5s. I could easily see a collection having room for both and don't think of the two as competing with each other much.

Edit: I hope this was helpful, but if you guys have any questions about the comparison feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer.


----------



## silverszi

ttorbic said:


> My poor TGX Ripples is still stuck in customs 😭 Been 19 days since he posted it. Poor TGX has contacted the courier service twice already but all we can do is wait until the official investigation is over. I suspect it's due to the series of strikes by the Royal Mail employees that's causing mountains of packages to be stuck at customs. (But I do hope RM employees' conditions improve!).
> 
> If anyone in the UK is ordering stuff from overseas, be wary of long delays!


My soldering iron hasn't even gotten overseas yet and I ordered that on the 25th
fume extractor fan came though
lol


----------



## ttorbic

silverszi said:


> My soldering iron hasn't even gotten overseas yet and I ordered that on the 25th
> fume extractor fan came though
> lol


At least you can clean your indoor air in preparation for the soldering iron 😂 are you making some DIY buds?


----------



## feverfive

fooltoque said:


> Despite having listed as 'shipped' a week ago, mine have yet to update their tracking information. I get the feeling that they just listed it as shipped to avoid the automatic cancellation, but never actually shipped it yet.


Dang, I dislike when companies do that.

I ordered my FF5 on Nov. 28; got shipping notice email only a couple hours later.  AlieExpress-supplied tracking says they landed in the U.S. Dec. 4 and sat til Dec. 7 when they cleared Customs and were supposedly handed-off to "local delivery company" (which in my case for every order I've placed with Alie is US Postal).  Alie tracking hasn't changed since and USPS tracking says "Currently Awaiting Package." 🤷‍♂️


----------



## mt877

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay, for those who were looking for an EM5 to FF5 comparison it's fairly simple. The EM5 has significantly higher levels of bass though they have similar treble energy. The mids of the EM5s come across as taking a step back from the bass and treble whereas they're right up front on the FF5s. The EM5s have greater detail retrieval compared to the FF5s, but not by much. Even though the EM5s have more bass than the FF5s, the bass on the FF5s comes off as being tighter and more articulate.
> 
> Overall, the lower bass levels and more forward mids (especially upper mids) make the FF5s come off as the brighter of the two. Based on some comments I had heard before I had the FF5s I was expecting them to be much more similar to the EM5s than they are. It's basically a v-shape tuning on the EM5s and a balanced leaning towards bright tuning on the FF5s. I could easily see a collection having room for both and don't think of the two as competing with each other much.
> 
> Edit: I hope this was helpful, but if you guys have any questions about the comparison feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer.


Great summary. The EM5 was both my first TOTL and most expensive earbuds purchase when I got them. It's nice to know that the EM5 and FF5 will fill different niches. I haven't got my FF5s yet, but I think they'll have a permanent spot my buds collection.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

feverfive said:


> Dang, I dislike when companies do that.
> 
> I ordered my FF5 on Nov. 28; got shipping notice email only a couple hours later.  AlieExpress-supplied tracking says they landed in the U.S. Dec. 4 and sat til Dec. 7 when they cleared Customs and were supposedly handed-off to "local delivery company" (which in my case for every order I've placed with Alie is US Postal).  Alie tracking hasn't changed since and USPS tracking says "Currently Awaiting Package." 🤷‍♂️



This sometimes happens with my packages from AE. My USPS center says that the tracking info is often incorrect about the package actually being handed off. They say that it updates to say that as soon as customs lets it off the hold, but it can often be anywhere up to 10 business days after that before the USPS actually picks it up with the tracking info saying the same thing the whole time. Frustrating for sure...🤞 I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!


----------



## chinmie

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Okay, for those who were looking for an EM5 to FF5 comparison it's fairly simple. The EM5 has significantly higher levels of bass though they have similar treble energy. The mids of the EM5s come across as taking a step back from the bass and treble whereas they're right up front on the FF5s. The EM5s have greater detail retrieval compared to the FF5s, but not by much. Even though the EM5s have more bass than the FF5s, the bass on the FF5s comes off as being tighter and more articulate.
> 
> Overall, the lower bass levels and more forward mids (especially upper mids) make the FF5s come off as the brighter of the two. Based on some comments I had heard before I had the FF5s I was expecting them to be much more similar to the EM5s than they are. It's basically a v-shape tuning on the EM5s and a balanced leaning towards bright tuning on the FF5s. I could easily see a collection having room for both and don't think of the two as competing with each other much.
> 
> Edit: I hope this was helpful, but if you guys have any questions about the comparison feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer.



After i googled the picture, I just realised that I've tried the EM5, but i forgot the name 😅

It was in an audio meet some time ago, and a friend of mine said "try this Fiio earbuds", and i remembered that i liked it, and that i found the design interesting.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

chinmie said:


> After i googled the picture, I just realised that I've tried the EM5, but i forgot the name 😅
> 
> It was in an audio meet some time ago, and a friend of mine said "try this Fiio earbuds", and i remembered that i liked it, and that i found the design interesting.



I'm not a huge fan of the tuning, but I know plenty of people that are. My bassist/best friend keeps my pair and says they're his favorite non-over ear transducer. I actually wish I liked the tuning more because I find the fit to be basically perfect.


----------



## digititus

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I'm not a huge fan of the tuning, but I know plenty of people that are. My bassist/best friend keeps my pair and says they're his favorite non-over ear transducer. I actually wish I liked the tuning more because I find the fit to be basically perfect.


Love the tuning, fit is awkward for me and takes some fiddling to get right. FF3 fits better.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Dec 11, 2022)

digititus said:


> Love the tuning, fit is awkward for me and takes some fiddling to get right. FF3 fits better.



That's interesting as they both sit in a very similar position in my ear and they feel darn near identical aside from the weight. That said, my ears are definitely not picky about shell types and they tend to take them all without much drama so I guess the similar feeling fit may not mean as much coming from me.

Edit: Just realized you were talking about the EM5 and not the FF5. The EM5s provide possibly the closest and most stable fit of any earbud I have tried. They are definitely in the top three anyways.


----------



## prakasitp

Hi, Does anyone try Ucotech ES2203 Brillante yet? Would like to know how you guys think about this buds. 
https://www.ucotech.co.kr/product/2203

by the way, this 2 pins earbuds, is it a trend? 😆😆😆


----------



## fooltoque

JAnonymous5150 said:


> That's interesting as they both sit in a very similar position in my ear and they feel darn near identical aside from the weight. That said, my ears are definitely not picky about shell types and they tend to take them all without much drama so I guess the similar feeling fit may not mean as much coming from me.
> 
> Edit: Just realized you were talking about the EM5 and not the FF5. The EM5s provide possibly the closest and most stable fit of any earbud I have tried. They are definitely in the top three anyways.



I also find the EM5 fit to be fiddly. I experimented with different silicon rings and earhooks, but they don't fit right on them either, so I just have to adjust them occasionally when I wear them. 

Someone else on the forums said they wear them hooked around the ears, which I tried, but it was awkward and required the yoke to be tightened up close to the chin in order to keep them in place, making the user look like a doofus. Sadly this also is the best way to keep them in perfect position in my ears, and they sound best this way lol. 

FF3's fit pretty well for me, I do have to adjust them occasionally. MX500 shells are the most comfortable I've found so far.


----------



## Penon (Dec 12, 2022)

*OURART QJ21 Selected Edition* is available now. We invite experienced reviewers to write reviews.

https://penonaudio.com/ourart-qj21-selected-edition.html

*The sound difference between QJ21 and QJ21 selected edition:*

QJ21 use of high-end pure silver cable, sound orientation bias human voice, taking into account the low frequency atmosphere. Listening sense is more moist, the pursuit of deep expression of human voice feelings.

The QJ21 selected edition uses high-purity silver-plated cable, making the earphone compatible with more devices. The sound field of earphones is enlarged appropriately, and the sound style is more all-rounders. The sound layout is relatively open wide, which is more suitable for a slightly larger music scene.

Two kinds of cable sound style difference is obvious, if the pursuit of the ultimate vocal, then QJ21 is the first choice. If the listening style is omnivorous and the device is multi-source, you can choose the QJ21 selected edition. In general, due to the advantages of wire materials, the sound transmission speed of pure silver cable is higher than that of selected edition, and the details of the voice part are much more. QJ21 selected edition has music style compatibility advantage.


----------



## digititus

fooltoque said:


> Someone else on the forums said they wear them hooked around the ears, which I tried, but it was awkward and required the yoke to be tightened up close to the chin in order to keep them in place, making the user look like a doofus. Sadly this also is the best way to keep them in perfect position in my ears, and they sound best this way lol.
> 
> FF3's fit pretty well for me, I do have to adjust them occasionally. MX500 shells are the most comfortable I've found so far.


Yeah, that was me  Definitely more stable this way, but does look a bit silly.


----------



## dsonance

feverfive said:


> Dang, I dislike when companies do that.
> 
> I ordered my FF5 on Nov. 28; got shipping notice email only a couple hours later.  AlieExpress-supplied tracking says they landed in the U.S. Dec. 4 and sat til Dec. 7 when they cleared Customs and were supposedly handed-off to "local delivery company" (which in my case for every order I've placed with Alie is US Postal).  Alie tracking hasn't changed since and USPS tracking says "Currently Awaiting Package." 🤷‍♂️


A combination of the "Received by local delivery company" and the USPS's "Currently Awaiting Package" statuses usually means that another local logistics company is handling the delivery from customs to the regional USPS office. Often, the company is Pitney Bowes. You can see more details about packages moving through their system in their own tracker, at https://trackpb.shipment.co/track.


----------



## silverszi

ttorbic said:


> At least you can clean your indoor air in preparation for the soldering iron 😂 are you making some DIY buds?


yep, i decided i don't want to deal with avcck so instead i will do it myself.
not a first diy and i will probably do more after but hopefully the 300 ohm DLC gives me what i want


----------



## JAnonymous5150

prakasitp said:


> Hi, Does anyone try Ucotech ES2203 Brillante yet? Would like to know how you guys think about this buds.
> https://www.ucotech.co.kr/product/2203
> 
> by the way, this 2 pins earbuds, is it a trend? 😆😆😆



I've was also thinking about giving these a try, but I ran out of time to get them before I leave to go on tour. If you end up getting a pair you have to let me know how they are, okay?


----------



## Ronion

Penon said:


> *OURART QJ21 Selected Edition* is available now. We invite experienced reviewers to write reviews.
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/ourart-qj21-selected-edition.html
> 
> ...


@baskingshark, @o0genesis0o, @Dsnuts.  One of you guys should do it.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> @baskingshark, @o0genesis0o, @Dsnuts.  One of you guys should do it.


I’m in the middle of reviewing a budget IEM and dongle sent by @Penon, so perhaps others can take care of these buds Does not seem right to say “I am in the middle of reviewing the stuffs you sent me but can you send me more stuffs”


----------



## mt877 (Dec 12, 2022)

Break out the virtual cigars! Someone here proposed to their girlfriend and she answered yes. Congrats!

Now let the guessing game begin...

Edit: It's not me.


----------



## mt877

prakasitp said:


> Hi, Does anyone try Ucotech ES2203 Brillante yet? Would like to know how you guys think about this buds.
> https://www.ucotech.co.kr/product/2203
> 
> by the way, this 2 pins earbuds, is it a trend? 😆😆😆


Wow, are these supposed to be TOTL buds? Amazon US is showing they cost $235.00.
Amazon link


----------



## rkw

prakasitp said:


> by the way, this 2 pins earbuds, is it a trend?


It has been the standard connector for Rose (Mojito, Masya, Maria, etc). But no, it isn't a trend.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> Break out the virtual cigars! Someone here proposed to their girlfriend and she answered yes. Congrats!
> 
> Now let the guessing game begin...
> 
> Edit: It's not me.



I'm guessing it was @drewbadour ! You know me though, bachelor for life! 😉


----------



## samandhi

Congratulations on whoever is "tying the knot" as it were! Or is it "my condolences"?  🤷‍♂️ 

On another note, my FF5 status is stuck in one of those "handover" glitches that are so famous when shipping from out of country. On the one hand the Chinese (AE) tracking still says "Departing country of origin" on the seventh (the last/latest update), and on the other side of things in the US (at USPS tracking), it simply says "Label created" also on the seventh..... They went dark. I'll bet they are stuck in customs but are at least in the US (though maybe not). 

Are we placing bets as to whom on here will be the last to get their set (that ordered them in the same time frame)? If I am not mistaken, I ordered mine the day after @JAnonymous5150 did....


----------



## fooltoque

samandhi said:


> Congratulations on whoever is "tying the knot" as it were! Or is it "my condolences"?  🤷‍♂️
> 
> On another note, my FF5 status is stuck in one of those "handover" glitches that are so famous when shipping from out of country. On the one hand the Chinese (AE) tracking still says "Departing country of origin" on the seventh (the last/latest update), and on the other side of things in the US (at USPS tracking), it simply says "Label created" also on the seventh..... They went dark. I'll bet they are stuck in customs but are at least in the US (though maybe not).
> 
> Are we placing bets as to whom on here will be the last to get their set (that ordered them in the same time frame)? If I am not mistaken, I ordered mine the day after @JAnonymous5150 did....



I ordered on the 28th, and mine is still in China. "Arrived at the departure transport hub". It still says estimated delivery Dec 16th.


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I'm guessing it was @drewbadour ! You know me though, bachelor for life! 😉


I figured it was you!


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Dec 12, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Congratulations on whoever is "tying the knot" as it were! Or is it "my condolences"?  🤷‍♂️
> 
> On another note, my FF5 status is stuck in one of those "handover" glitches that are so famous when shipping from out of country. On the one hand the Chinese (AE) tracking still says "Departing country of origin" on the seventh (the last/latest update), and on the other side of things in the US (at USPS tracking), it simply says "Label created" also on the seventh..... They went dark. I'll bet they are stuck in customs but are at least in the US (though maybe not).
> 
> Are we placing bets as to whom on here will be the last to get their set (that ordered them in the same time frame)? If I am not mistaken, I ordered mine the day after @JAnonymous5150 did....



Psst it's me. Don't tell the rest of the thread. I think my drewbadour prediction really threw them off the scent. Your condolences for the loss of my bachelorhood are much appreciated.

As for the FF5s, I remember you ordering yours the same day I did, literally right after me IIRC. They came to me quickly, but for yours to still be held up in customs or wherever seems a little crazy. I'll keep my fingers crossed for your FF5s brother! 🤞


----------



## Ronion (Dec 12, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> I’m in the middle of reviewing a budget IEM and dongle sent by @Penon, so perhaps others can take care of these buds Does not seem right to say “I am in the middle of reviewing the stuffs you sent me but can you send me more stuffs”


Just tell them that next time they can save on shipping if they send you both at once...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> I figured it was you!



Nope, definitely not me. You know yhe BeeGees leading sex symbol can't just go getting engaged all willy nilly. I'm pretty sure it was drewbadour...😜


----------



## drewbadour (Dec 12, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I'm guessing it was @drewbadour ! You know me though, bachelor for life! 😉


Haha you got me!

But no, not me! Been happily married almost 5 years now!

Congratulations, brother!

edit: yes, it was me! 😉


----------



## JAnonymous5150

drewbadour said:


> Haha you got me!
> 
> But no, not me! Been happily married almost 5 years now!
> 
> Congratulations, brother!



Man, just when I was finally turning the tide and getting folks to believe it was you here you go showin' up and blowin' my cover.

Seriously though, thanks bro! And to Mrs. Drewbadour, I was only kidding. He's not marrying anybody else. 😜


----------



## JAnonymous5150

drewbadour said:


> Haha you got me!
> 
> But no, not me! Been happily married almost 5 years now!
> 
> ...



Damn! I didn't see this fast enough and now everyone's seen my apology to your wife. Oh well, thanks for havin' my back anyways, dude!


----------



## FranQL

Mi enhorabuena @drewbador!!!!! 

I knew that with that great hair you were going to last a short time being single!


----------



## jeejack

silverszi said:


> yep, i decided i don't want to deal with avcck so instead i will do it myself.
> not a first diy and i will probably do more after but hopefully the 300 ohm DLC gives me what i want


Good choice!


----------



## baskingshark

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Your condolences for the loss of my bachelorhood are much appreciated.



Before I got married, my wife didn't give 2 hoots about my audio gear.

After we got married, she now gives me the stare of death every time a new audio package arrives in the mail.



Haha but let me share with you some pro tips on how to bypass the "stare of death":

1) Use a separate credit card account.
2) Collect packages from the post office and smuggle it in (rather than delivery direct to the house where she might end up signing for it).
3) Use IEMs/earbuds which are generic black or silver looking. Anything that is obviously extreme looking eg green shells (BLON BL-05s) or of some funny shape is surely gonna attract unwanted attention. These multiple black/silver pokemon can be easily passed off as the same IEM haha (the rest are hidden in a secret stash). What the wife doesn't see, she doesn't know about hahaha.
4) IEMs and earbuds are easier to conceal than headphones, so try to avoid the latter. It is not only a matter of space in the house to store headphones, but something so conspicuous on the head is bound to attract attention than something smaller in profile in the ears.


Ok, I'm sure the others have more tips to share. But don't rat the brotherhood out!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

baskingshark said:


> Before I got married, my wife didn't give 2 hoots about my audio gear.
> 
> After we got married, she now gives me the stare of death every time a new audio package arrives in the mail.
> 
> ...



She has her own collection of gear so I'm hoping it won't be a problem. I mean, we have been together for 8 years and lived together for 5 so at this point I'd like to think she knows what she's getting into lol! Anyways, I appreciate the tips and I certainly won't be ratting out the brotherhood! 😂


----------



## chinmie

JAnonymous5150 said:


> She has her own collection of gear so I'm hoping it won't be a problem. I mean, we have been together for 8 years and lived together for 5 so at this point I'd like to think she knows what she's getting into lol! Anyways, I appreciate the tips and I certainly won't be ratting out the brotherhood! 😂



Congrats man!

I am one of the lucky ones, my wife (and my son too, sometimes  )  would only jokingly sneered and says "bought another one?"  but otherwise she doesn't bother me in my hobbies.


----------



## jeejack

JAnonymous5150 said:


> She has her own collection of gear so I'm hoping it won't be a problem. I mean, we have been together for 8 years and lived together for 5 so at this point I'd like to think she knows what she's getting into lol! Anyways, I appreciate the tips and I certainly won't be ratting out the brotherhood! 😂


We are some of the lucky guys...BUT never say never 😂


----------



## dsonance

JAnonymous5150 said:


> She has her own collection of gear so I'm hoping it won't be a problem. I mean, we have been together for 8 years and lived together for 5 so at this point I'd like to think she knows what she's getting into lol! Anyways, I appreciate the tips and I certainly won't be ratting out the brotherhood! 😂


Congrats, brother!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

dsonance said:


> Congrats, brother!



Thanks, man! I'm pretty stoked!

To @jeejack : I know better than to say never when it comes to females lol! 😂


----------



## dsonance

samandhi said:


> Are we placing bets as to whom on here will be the last to get their set (that ordered them in the same time frame)? If I am not mistaken, I ordered mine the day after @JAnonymous5150 did....


I ordered mine on Nov 28th as well, and it's just "arrived at the destination country" today (Dec 12th). Not even at the US Customs yet.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Dec 13, 2022)

dsonance said:


> I ordered mine on Nov 28th as well, and it's just "arrived at the destination country" today (Dec 12th). Not even at the US Customs yet.



That's so weird. I'm guessing that they shipped the first batch and then maybe they had to prep more retail packages or something because it seems pretty clear that there was a wave that came really quickly and then a pretty sizeable gap.


----------



## ttorbic

Congratulations @JAnonymous5150! Looks like we got engaged in the same year


----------



## JAnonymous5150

ttorbic said:


> Congratulations @JAnonymous5150! Looks like we got engaged in the same year



Congratulations right back at you, bro! I wish you and yours many happy years ahead. 🍻😎


----------



## ttorbic

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Congratulations right back at you, bro! I wish you and yours many happy years ahead. 🍻😎


I'll raise a glass to that! Same to you mate!


----------



## Carpet (Dec 13, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> Before I got married, my wife didn't give 2 hoots about my audio gear.
> 
> After we got married, she now gives me the stare of death every time a new audio package arrives in the mail.
> 
> ...



That has a very familiar ring to it!

I was looking at the Yuan Li on special recently, given that I love the Zetian Wu (and it would appreciate company). The first thing that caught my eye was the Dark Soul version, in matt black with the gunmetal cable. Then I saw that the original version in polished aluminium with the copper cable, that had a very similar look to the I3Pro, and was hence less likely to be noticed! Unfortunately I shouldn't buy either (or both), because; 1/I promised not to buy any more (even though fingers WERE crossed); 2/more importantly, the case is REALLY distinctive; 3/the new Shimin Li colab might be an improvement over the original

Packaging materials are a dead giveaway too! Especially bubble-wrap, boxes and those white plastic envelopes with printed labels (especially with Chinese return addresses). You might as well leave panties, a bra and some condoms in your pockets!


----------



## baskingshark

Carpet said:


> That has a very familiar ring to it!
> 
> I was looking at the Yuan Li on special recently, given that I love the Zetian Wu (and it would appreciate company). The first thing that caught my eye was the Dark Soul version, in matt black with the gunmetal cable. Then I saw that the original version in polished aluminium with the copper cable, that had a very similar look to the I3Pro, and was hence less likely to be noticed! Unfortunately I shouldn't buy either (or both), because; 1/I promised not to buy any more (even though fingers WERE crossed); 2/more importantly, the case is REALLY distinctive; 3/the new Shimin Li colab might be an improvement over the original
> 
> Packaging materials are a dead giveaway too! Especially bubble-wrap, boxes and those white plastic envelopes with printed labels (especially with Chinese return addresses). You might as well leave panties, a bra and some condoms in your pockets!



My wife actually recognizes the different waifus from Moondrop and Tanchjim packaging and knows it is a different IEM that came in the mail!

But the best part is she can't hear the difference between a $2 USD night market Beats IEM and a TOTL $2K DUNU LUNA loaner IEM. She says they sound the same!


----------



## fooltoque

baskingshark said:


> Before I got married, my wife didn't give 2 hoots about my audio gear.
> 
> After we got married, she now gives me the stare of death every time a new audio package arrives in the mail.
> 
> ...



#4 is key I think xD 

The same thing goes for computer hardware too. Either buy only black and silver stuff, or bling and neon-light out absolutely everything. As long as you keep it consistent gradual upgrades can go unnoticed. 



chinmie said:


> Congrats man!
> 
> I am one of the lucky ones, my wife (and my son too, sometimes  )  would only jokingly sneered and says "bought another one?"  but otherwise she doesn't bother me in my hobbies.



This is pretty much where I'm at too. Mine will say "How many headphones do you need??" (which I kinda agree with in theory but as we all know is completely untenable in practice). But she doesn't push it, cause if she does I might open her sneaker closet and start an inventory there. 

Anyways CONGRATS @drewbadour ! Despite all the dire warnings I'm sure you've gotten, it will definitely go well! Probably.


----------



## Carpet

baskingshark said:


> My wife actually recognizes the different waifus from Moondrop and Tanchjim packaging and knows it is a different IEM that came in the mail!
> 
> But the best part is she can't hear the difference between a $2 USD night market Beats IEM and a TOTL $2K DUNU LUNA loaner IEM. She says they sound the same!


My Wife now has two IEMs, I gave her the PLA13 last weekend which she seems to prefer over the ZEX Pro. I figured that would probably sound better with her Disturbed, Five Finger Death Punch and Queen albums. Okay, I married a bass-head! 

Since she now has double her original number, that means I should also be allowed to... 

"Why are there vultures circling overhead?"


----------



## gylyf

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Congratulations right back at you, bro! I wish you and yours many happy years ahead. 🍻😎


@JAnonymous5150 Congratulations, man! My wife and I celebrated our six-month anniversary this weekend.

About the FF5: I was fortunate to receive mine a few days after my order and I’ve been listening to them almost exclusively since getting home. Still not sure what to make of them. Initially, I think I was expecting a much brighter signature, but this feels more like Fiio subtracted some of the meatiness of the FF3 without necessarily adding any sparkle. The result is a bud that leaves me torn: it’s fine, but it leaves me feeling unmoved. If I want crustal clarity, I can turn to the Serratus. If I want to get punched in the face, I have the FF3. If I want to relax and enjoy the music for hours, I have my BK. I’m just not sure where the FF5 fit into my growing collection (still awaiting Ripples and Tantalus), because it doesn’t seem to do any one thing especially well. I’ve also found it to be more source-dependent than I was expecting. It sounds dull and claustrophobic on a few of my sources and the best I’ve heard it sound is with my Mojo 2 and the Amp13 card on my DX320. I’m going to keep listening, but I think I want to like these more than I actually do.


----------



## Chessnaudio

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Psst it's me. Don't tell the rest of the thread. I think my drewbadour prediction really threw them off the scent. Your condolences for the loss of my bachelorhood are much appreciated.
> 
> As for the FF5s, I remember you ordering yours the same day I did, literally right after me IIRC. They came to me quickly, but for yours to still be held up in customs or wherever seems a little crazy. I'll keep my fingers crossed for your FF5s brother! 🤞


Congrats man. Hope your wedding and tour plans work out. The question is tour and wedding or tour wedding lol!


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Psst it's me. Don't tell the rest of the thread. I think my drewbadour prediction really threw them off the scent. Your condolences for the loss of my bachelorhood are much appreciated.
> 
> As for the FF5s, I remember you ordering yours the same day I did, literally right after me IIRC. They came to me quickly, but for yours to still be held up in customs or wherever seems a little crazy. I'll keep my fingers crossed for your FF5s brother! 🤞


Now that you mention it, you are right... Interesting.


drewbadour said:


> Haha you got me!
> 
> But no, not me! Been happily married almost 5 years now!
> 
> ...


22 years together, 22 living together...  (and somehow I am still around, and happy)... 


dsonance said:


> I ordered mine on Nov 28th as well, and it's just "arrived at the destination country" today (Dec 12th). Not even at the US Customs yet.


I just got the update today that it is at the shipping partner and USPS is awaiting item as of yesterday. 


JAnonymous5150 said:


> That's so weird. I'm guessing that they shipped the first batch and then maybe they had to prep more retail packages or something because it seems pretty clear that there was a wave that came really quickly and then a pretty sizeable gap.


Mine actually shipped out the same day (or very early the next morning). It is the shipping system. Sometimes it is fast, sometimes they are SUPER slow. As long as it doesn't get "lost" or otherwise doesn't arrive, I will patiently wait (with fingernails chewed off).   


ttorbic said:


> Congratulations @JAnonymous5150! Looks like we got engaged in the same year





Chessnaudio said:


> Congrats man. Hope your wedding and tour plans work out. The question is tour and wedding or tour wedding lol!


Congrats to you both as well! May your toes never rot, and warts be hidden from public view. 

Oh wait! That isn't the appropriate saying..... 

May you grow old together and deserve each other always!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

fooltoque said:


> #4 is key I think xD
> 
> The same thing goes for computer hardware too. Either buy only black and silver stuff, or bling and neon-light out absolutely everything. As long as you keep it consistent gradual upgrades can go unnoticed.
> 
> ...



See @drewbadour ? I told you my misdirection would work. Thanks for having my back bro.

Seriously though, before I get him in trouble, I have to admit that I was joking when I said it was drewbadour who got engaged. It was me and I was just having a little fun. Sorry! 😉


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> See @drewbadour ? I told you my misdirection would work. Thanks for having my back bro.
> 
> Seriously though, before I get him in trouble, I have to admit that I was joking when I said it was drewbadour who got engaged. It was me and I was just having a little fun. Sorry! 😉


Yeah, Drew is only engaging in making Buds by Dr Drew atm


----------



## JAnonymous5150

gylyf said:


> @JAnonymous5150 Congratulations, man! My wife and I celebrated our six-month anniversary this weekend.
> 
> About the FF5: I was fortunate to receive mine a few days after my order and I’ve been listening to them almost exclusively since getting home. Still not sure what to make of them. Initially, I think I was expecting a much brighter signature, but this feels more like Fiio subtracted some of the meatiness of the FF3 without necessarily adding any sparkle. The result is a bud that leaves me torn: it’s fine, but it leaves me feeling unmoved. If I want crustal clarity, I can turn to the Serratus. If I want to get punched in the face, I have the FF3. If I want to relax and enjoy the music for hours, I have my BK. I’m just not sure where the FF5 fit into my growing collection (still awaiting Ripples and Tantalus), because it doesn’t seem to do any one thing especially well. I’ve also found it to be more source-dependent than I was expecting. It sounds dull and claustrophobic on a few of my sources and the best I’ve heard it sound is with my Mojo 2 and the Amp13 card on my DX320. I’m going to keep listening, but I think I want to like these more than I actually do.



Thanks for the congratulations and you have mine coming right back at you for surviving the first six months. Are you guys always planning to celebrate half year anniversaries ir was that just a one time deal?

As for the FF5s, I have very much the same feelings about it. There's nothing wrong with it per se, but I am also unsure of where, if anywhere, it fits in my lineup. It's too good and expensive a bud to keep around if I'm not really going to use it, especially since I can see someone else making it part of their active rotation. That said, I'm still giving it more time and trying new things with it before I make any rash decisions.


----------



## o0genesis0o

@JAnonymous5150 



Spoiler: Found a video of you on Internet


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> @JAnonymous5150
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Found a video of you on Internet



Hey I remember that episode of Friends!

P.S. I just put a reminder in my phone to not share anymore personal news with @o0genesis0o . 🥺😉


----------



## gylyf

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Thanks for the congratulations and you have mine coming right back at you for surviving the first six months. Are you guys always planning to celebrate half year anniversaries ir was that just a one time deal?
> 
> As for the FF5s, I have very much the same feelings about it. There's nothing wrong with it per se, but I am also unsure of where, if anywhere, it fits in my lineup. It's too good and expensive a bud to keep around if I'm not really going to use it, especially since I can see someone else making it part of their active rotation. That said, I'm still giving it more time and trying new things with it before I make any rash decisions.


No half-anniversaries here - I'll be lucky if I can remember the yearly anniversary!  No, we delayed our honeymoon and it just happened to coincide with the half-year, hence the celebration. Congrats again and wishing both of you much happiness.

And same here about giving the FF5 more time to see if it ends up gelling with a particular DAC/amp combo.


----------



## fooltoque (Dec 13, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> See @drewbadour ? I told you my misdirection would work. Thanks for having my back bro.
> 
> Seriously though, before I get him in trouble, I have to admit that I was joking when I said it was drewbadour who got engaged. It was me and I was just having a little fun. Sorry! 😉



Dammit, I thought it was you from the beginning but then got too confused lol. Congrats!
I'll just keep my congrats to Drewbadour either belated or premature, whichever it is 

Edit: Belated, it's belated!


----------



## drewbadour

JAnonymous5150 said:


> See @drewbadour ? I told you my misdirection would work. Thanks for having my back bro.
> 
> Seriously though, before I get him in trouble, I have to admit that I was joking when I said it was drewbadour who got engaged. It was me and I was just having a little fun. Sorry! 😉


Haha any time! Looks like we've sufficiently confused everyone!

In any case, getting married will be great! You've already been dating for so long so there won't be any bad surprises, just good ones (tax savings, etc)! My wife and I dated for 8 years before getting married and it's been great!


----------



## Carpet

gylyf said:


> No half-anniversaries here - I'll be lucky if I can remember the yearly anniversary!  No, we delayed our honeymoon and it just happened to coincide with the half-year, hence the celebration. Congrats again and wishing both of you much happiness.
> 
> And same here about giving the FF5 more time to see if it ends up gelling with a particular DAC/amp combo.


No half anniversaries here either. I've found that in 35 years the only excuse that worked for forgetting anniversaries, was being in a coma.

You can only end up in the doghouse for a year at max. Unless of course you forget two in a row! Never tried that.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

drewbadour said:


> Haha any time! Looks like we've sufficiently confused everyone!
> 
> In any case, getting married will be great! You've already been dating for so long so there won't be any bad surprises, just good ones (tax savings, etc)! My wife and I dated for 8 years before getting married and it's been great!



Good to know! Yeah, I was never planning on getting married and I told my girl that from the beginning. She has never tried to change my mind or anything, but some things have changed and I knew how happy it would make her too. I'm definitely looking forward to it.

To keep this post topical, I'll throw in some earbud mentions. I listened to the Pt2022s for the first time last night and I have to say that I prefer the Pt2021s for sure. The 2022s have more bass, slightly less treble extension, less resolution, and a slightly smaller soundstage. I ordered the 2022s in the 147ohm version and the 365ohm version so I could see how much the signature changes between them, but I have only listened to the 365ohm version thus far. Basically, the 2022s have a signature that might appeal to more mainstream listeners, but it also takes away most of what makes the 2021s unique.


----------



## drewbadour (Dec 13, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Good to know! Yeah, I was never planning on getting married and I told my girl that from the beginning. She has never tried to change my mind or anything, but some things have changed and I knew how happy it would make her too. I'm definitely looking forward to it.
> 
> To keep this post topical, I'll throw in some earbud mentions. I listened to the Pt2022s for the first time last night and I have to say that I prefer the Pt2021s for sure. The 2022s have more bass, slightly less treble extension, less resolution, and a slightly smaller soundstage. I ordered the 2022s in the 147ohm version and the 365ohm version so I could see how much the signature changes between them, but I have only listened to the 365ohm version thus far. Basically, the 2022s have a signature that might appeal to more mainstream listeners, but it also takes away most of what makes the 2021s unique.


Ooh interesting - so the PT2021 will definitely be the way to go then? For the PT2021, have you tried all of the ohms?

(actually it looks like even if it is MMCX, it won't work well with the UTWS5 since it has those tubes that might interfere with fit haha)


----------



## JAnonymous5150

drewbadour said:


> Ooh interesting - so the PT2021 will definitely be the way to go then? For the PT2021, have you tried all of the ohms?



IMO, the Pt2021 is definitely the special one. I have only heard the 365ohm, but I ordered the 147ohm variant a couple days ago since I have been warned away from the 32ohm one as being peaky and much different. I can let you know how close the 147 is to the 365 when I get to listen to it if you're interested.


----------



## drewbadour

JAnonymous5150 said:


> IMO, the Pt2021 is definitely the special one. I have only heard the 365ohm, but I ordered the 147ohm variant a couple days ago since I have been warned away from the 32ohm one as being peaky and much different. I can let you know how close the 147 is to the 365 when I get to listen to it if you're interested.


Got it! Sounds good, will be looking forward to your impressions if you do get a chance! Thanks!


----------



## dsonance

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Thanks for the congratulations and you have mine coming right back at you for surviving the first six months. Are you guys always planning to celebrate half year anniversaries ir was that just a one time deal?
> 
> As for the FF5s, I have very much the same feelings about it. There's nothing wrong with it per se, but I am also unsure of where, if anywhere, it fits in my lineup. It's too good and expensive a bud to keep around if I'm not really going to use it, especially since I can see someone else making it part of their active rotation. That said, I'm still giving it more time and trying new things with it before I make any rash decisions.


Meant to ask you earlier - where would you put the FF5 relative to the NSC-tuned 80 Ohm LCPs?


----------



## ttorbic

Anyone a regular on here based in the UK? I'm looking for someone to trade or sell my Rikubuds Alter Rider 1. DM me please 🙏


----------



## dsonance

JAnonymous5150 said:


> IMO, the Pt2021 is definitely the special one. I have only heard the 365ohm, but I ordered the 147ohm variant a couple days ago since I have been warned away from the 32ohm one as being peaky and much different. I can let you know how close the 147 is to the 365 when I get to listen to it if you're interested.


Is it more "special" than the FF5 then? I liked it (the PT2021), for the brief time that I listened to it, but it didn't wow me in any particular way. What makes it stand out for you?


----------



## mt877 (Dec 13, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> See @drewbadour ? I told you my misdirection would work. Thanks for having my back bro.
> 
> Seriously though, before I get him in trouble, I have to admit that I was joking when I said it was drewbadour who got engaged. It was me and I was just having a little fun. Sorry! 😉


I didn't know I was gonna cause such a ruckus with my guessing game... all in good fun.  Now I can openly say "Hey JA, congratulations on your engagement!".

Still waiting for my AE deliveries. No FF5, no NCS 80Ω LCP, no DIY stuff delivered yet. Patience, patience....

Edit: My FF5 arrived at US Customs.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

dsonance said:


> Meant to ask you earlier - where would you put the FF5 relative to the NSC-tuned 80 Ohm LCPs?



I prefer the NSC 80ohms tuning and presentation. Technicalities are similar. I think the FF5s have a slightly tighter bass, but the NSC 80s have more bass and it's nice and punchy with good presence. You'll have to tell me what you think once you've gotten to take a crack at both of them.

I actually ordered a second pair of the NSC 80s because I want to see how consistent they are sound wise since I have been recommending them. It has been nice to see positive impressions from those that have already gotten them so I'm expecting them to be pretty solid/consistent.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

dsonance said:


> Is it more "special" than the FF5 then? I liked it (the PT2021), for the brief time that I listened to it, but it didn't wow me in any particular way. What makes it stand out for you?



Apples and oranges really. The PT2021s are significantly more resolving than the FF5s and they have a larger soundstage. They can be VERY good for critical listening.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

mt877 said:


> I didn't know I was gonna cause such a ruckus with my guessing game... all in good fun.  Now I can openly say "Hey JA, congratulations on your engagement!".
> 
> Still waiting for my AE deliveries. No FF5, no NCS 80Ω LCP, no DIY stuff delivered yet. Patience, patience....
> 
> Edit: My FF5 arrived at US Customs.



Thanks for the congrats, man! Fingers crossed that FF5s show up quickly and the NSC 80s and your DIY supplies follow soon thereafter. 🤞


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Apples and oranges really. The PT2021s are significantly more resolving than the FF5s and they have a larger soundstage. They can be VERY good for critical listening.


You certainly make them sound very interesting for those interested in changing it up from "Harmon(ish)" tuning and want to do some critical listening.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Dec 13, 2022)

samandhi said:


> You certainly make them sound very interesting for those interested in changing it up from "Harmon(ish)" tuning and want to do some critical listening.



They are practically the antithesis of the Harman tuning lol! 😂 The PT2021s have a very unique presentation that I haven't really heard in any other bud, though I would say they share some similarities with the Maria IIs and I know you like those. Basically, once you hear what the PT2021s can do with busy tracks in particular they become a good option for dissecting and "seeing inside" the music. Maybe not for everyone, but I certainly enjoy them.

Edit to add that the PT2021s are also very sensitive to foam choice.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> They are practically the antithesis of the Harman tuning lol! 😂 The PT2021s have a very unique presentation that I haven't really heard in any other bud, though I would say they share some similarities with the Maria IIs and I know you like those. Basically, once you hear what the PT2021s can do with busy tracks in particular they become a good option for dissecting and "seeing inside" the music. Maybe not for everyone, but I certainly enjoy them.


I do indeed enjoy tuning like this (just for the different sounds if nothing else). That is a very interesting take on those, because I have found there aren't TOO many buds that focus on that aspect to my knowledge. I thought the Maria II were one set for sure. The RW3000 can come close to that, but aren't quite there for that. Also, it is my opinion that the Chaconne do that fairly well also (not as well as the Maria II though) but come across as much smoother (maybe too smooth for some though). 

BTW! This is also one the very best things about the P1 (to my ears). They aren't wide or super deep, but the imaging and separation is something to behold...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> I do indeed enjoy tuning like this (just for the different sounds if nothing else). That is a very interesting take on those, because I have found there aren't TOO many buds that focus on that aspect to my knowledge. I thought the Maria II were one set for sure. The RW3000 can come close to that, but aren't quite there for that. Also, it is my opinion that the Chaconne do that fairly well also (not as well as the Maria II though) but come across as much smoother (maybe too smooth for some though).
> 
> BTW! This is also one the very best things about the P1 (to my ears). They aren't wide or super deep, but the imaging and separation is something to behold...



I also tend to like transducers, buds or otherwise, that are bit unique and shake things up. Even if they just bring something to the table that I haven't heard elsewhere or an interesting combo of properties/characteristics, they tend to be the ones that stick around the longest and hold my interest. Interesting never goes out of style.

Edit: BTW, you're not far off putting their general character with that list of buds. They have some similarities to the EBX21 too.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I also tend to like transducers, buds or otherwise, that are bit unique and shake things up. Even if they just bring something to the table that I haven't heard elsewhere or an interesting combo of properties/characteristics, they tend to be the ones that stick around the longest and hold my interest. Interesting never goes out of style.
> 
> Edit: BTW, you're not far off putting their general character with that list of buds. They have some similarities to the EBX21 too.


I suppose that would be a key word describing most of my collection (at least in relation to each other). I DO have a few sets that sound a lot like one of the others, but it is the really unique ones that I tend to gravitate towards in one way or another. This is also one of the reasons I still own a set of Bose OE2 headphones. Do they sound the best? Heck no! But they do have a something unique about their sound in my collection, so I keep them around.


----------



## baskingshark

Carpet said:


> No half anniversaries here either. I've found that in 35 years the only excuse that worked for forgetting anniversaries, was being in a coma.
> 
> You can only end up in the doghouse for a year at max. Unless of course you forget two in a row! Never tried that.



This is the fate that befell many audiophiles after buying one too many IEMs/earbuds. The good thing is at least the dog can appreciate good music with the master under the starry skies.




I'm kidding k @JAnonymous5150 haha, I seriously wish you and your wife the happiest marriage! And may you keep buying more gear and post here!


----------



## chinmie

baskingshark said:


> This is the fate that befell many audiophiles after buying one too many IEMs/earbuds. The good thing is at least the dog can appreciate good music with the master under the starry skies.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm kidding k @JAnonymous5150 haha, I seriously wish you and your wife the happiest marriage! And may you keep buying more gear and post here!



At least that guy have support from his four legged buddy 😄


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> This is the fate that befell many audiophiles after buying one too many IEMs/earbuds. The good thing is at least the dog can appreciate good music with the master under the starry skies.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm kidding k @JAnonymous5150 haha, I seriously wish you and your wife the happiest marriage! And may you keep buying more gear and post here!


LOL! Honestly, I don't think that anything/anyone can stop him from "testing" new equipment at this point. 

If it weren't for the credit cards that I have that she doesn't see the statement for (we just keep paying them, and she sometimes wonders why they never get paid off), I would not have half what I do now...  I MIGHT in about 10 years from now...


----------



## samandhi

chinmie said:


> At least that guy have support from his four legged buddy 😄


Maybe hobby expenditures are where the phrase "man's best friend" was coined?!


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> This is the fate that befell many audiophiles after buying one too many IEMs/earbuds. The good thing is at least the dog can appreciate good music with the master under the starry skies.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm kidding k @JAnonymous5150 haha, I seriously wish you and your wife the happiest marriage! And may you keep buying more gear and post here!


That picture is also (ironically) funny. I remember one time I "won" an argument, and somehow, I ended up in the garage with a frozen pizza, smoking cigarettes, sitting on an uncomfortable chair in front of a Salamander heater to keep warm. Yeah, I won that one for sure!


----------



## JAnonymous5150

baskingshark said:


> This is the fate that befell many audiophiles after buying one too many IEMs/earbuds. The good thing is at least the dog can appreciate good music with the master under the starry skies.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm kidding k @JAnonymous5150 haha, I seriously wish you and your wife the happiest marriage! And may you keep buying more gear and post here!



It's all good! I have two boxers, one of which has been around longer than the girl, and I'm sure they'll help pull me through! 😂


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> LOL! Honestly, I don't think that anything/anyone can stop him from "testing" new equipment at this point.
> 
> If it weren't for the credit cards that I have that she doesn't see the statement for (we just keep paying them, and she sometimes wonders why they never get paid off), I would not have half what I do now...  I MIGHT in about 10 years from now...



I think she's well past having any delusions about that stopping anytime soon. To be fair to her, she's never had a problem with how I spend on my hobbies and I think she gets it to an extent because she has hers to.


----------



## samandhi

@JAnonymous5150 I just thought of something. My mother-in-law is going to be SO sad, now that you are getting married. She is totally in love with the Bee gees....


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I think she's well past having any delusions about that stopping anytime soon. To be fair to her, she's never had a problem with how I spend on my hobbies and I think she gets it to an extent because she has hers to.


Lucky dog!


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Dec 13, 2022)

samandhi said:


> @JAnonymous5150 I just thought of something. My mother-in-law is going to be SO sad, now that you are getting married. She is totally in love with the Bee gees....



See? I told @Ronion that I shouldn't admit to this because the BeeGees can't lose their number one sex symbol! Let's just keep it amongst ourselves, okay gentlemen?

Edit: And, yes, I do consider myself lucky. She's the coolest for sure! 😎


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> See? I told @Ronion that I shouldn't admit to this because the BeeGees can't lose their number one sex symbol! Let's just keep it amongst ourselves, okay gentlemen?
> 
> Edit: And, yes, I do consider myself lucky. She's the coolest for sure! 😎


LOL bro--I knew it was you!  You tried to deny it....  SMDH.  I know you.  All the BeeGee boys are the same.

In earbud news today I decided to measure my 300DLC after a month and a half of frequent use.  Every single bud I've measured does the same thing to some degree after the foams soften: More deep bass, less pinna/treble.  So use brighter sounding foams than you initially like and don't give up too quickly.  It seems to take about 7 hours with my level of heat and ear grease to cook and then it slows way down.  YMMV and different foam brands may react differently.  For instance: HieGi do not seem to exhibit this behavior much.  VE and FiiO (my overall favorite foams I've tried) do.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> LOL bro--I knew it was you!  You tried to deny it....  SMDH.  I know you.  All the BeeGee boys are the same.
> 
> In earbud news today I decided to measure my 300DLC after a month and a half of frequent use.  Every single bud I've measured does the same thing to some degree after the foams soften: More deep bass, less pinna/treble.  So use brighter sounding foams than you initially like and don't give up too quickly.  It seems to take about 7 hours with my level of heat and ear grease to cook and then it slows way down.  YMMV and different foam brands may react differently.  For instance: HieGi do not seem to exhibit this behavior much.  VE and FiiO (my overall favorite foams I've tried) do.



For once, “burn in” is measurable


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> LOL bro--I knew it was you!  You tried to deny it....  SMDH.  I know you.  All the BeeGee boys are the same.
> 
> In earbud news today I decided to measure my 300DLC after a month and a half of frequent use.  Every single bud I've measured does the same thing to some degree after the foams soften: More deep bass, less pinna/treble.  So use brighter sounding foams than you initially like and don't give up too quickly.  It seems to take about 7 hours with my level of heat and ear grease to cook and then it slows way down.  YMMV and different foam brands may react differently.  For instance: HieGi do not seem to exhibit this behavior much.  VE and FiiO (my overall favorite foams I've tried) do.



Without measurements just AB listening between my two sets of FF3s, one with old foams and one with new, I have noticed this effect too. It's not drastic, but it's clearly audible. This is one of the reasons the bass foams end up being too much for me because they start off borderline and end up crossing the line for sure when the foams break in.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> For once, “burn in” is measurable


Except with HieGi for whatever reason:  I've measured them a year apart and they were essentially the same in spite of a lot of use.  I guess even then it was a dB--maybe 2--but the bass didn't change.


----------



## Ronion (Dec 14, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Without measurements just AB listening between my two sets of FF3s, one with old foams and one with new, I have noticed this effect too. It's not drastic, but it's clearly audible. This is one of the reasons the bass foams end up being too much for me because they start off borderline and end up crossing the line for sure when the foams break in.


I'm in that same boat.  I'm actually going to try for Crisp at the moment and wait it out to hear/see.  The bass--even though it does make the bass on the buds awesome, it kills the treble too much in the long run.  The FiiO engineers may know their business well after all as that's what they claim to use.

Oh, and you guys posted so much in the last 2 days, it's going to take me a week to catch up!  Jeez...


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> I'm in that same boat.  I'm actually going to try for Crisp at the moment and wait it out to hear/see.  The bass--even though it does make the bass on the buds awesome, it kills the treble too much in the long run.  The FiiO engineers may know their business well after all as that's what they claim to use.


I use donut foam with FF3. The buds sound excellent with enough treble bites and details. Not detail monster or something, but good sources can bring out enough details that you don’t feel lacking.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> I'm in that same boat.  I'm actually going to try for Crisp at the moment and wait it out to hear/see.  The bass--even though it does make the bass on the buds awesome, it kills the treble too much in the long run.  The FiiO engineers may know their business well after all as that's what they claim to use.
> 
> Oh, and you guys posted so much in the last 2 days, it's going to take me a week to catch up!  Jeez...



Most of the posts are nonsense, jokes, and congrats with the occasional post about the FF5s thrown in lol! 😂

As for the foams, I use the crisps myself. I think they give me the best balance between low end power and treble detail and extension. I am experimenting with various offset donuts, but I haven't gotten it right yet and the regular crisps have maintained their spot as my favorite thus far. Also, the Trig Rain foams that look like little pot scrubbers sound surprisingly good too.


----------



## jogawag (Dec 14, 2022)

I had a blissful listening experience with a Newbsound 32Pro imitation (using a 32ohm N52 Blue Glue driver) with a silver-plated OFC balanced cable.

By the way, DIY Earbuds were a big hit this year on this thread, but unfortunately there were few completed Earbuds worth mentioning.
Barely Yincrow rw-3000 and Fiio FF3?


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> LOL bro--I knew it was you!  You tried to deny it....  SMDH.  I know you.  All the BeeGee boys are the same.
> 
> In earbud news today I decided to measure my 300DLC after a month and a half of frequent use.  Every single bud I've measured does the same thing to some degree after the foams soften: More deep bass, less pinna/treble.  So use brighter sounding foams than you initially like and don't give up too quickly.  It seems to take about 7 hours with my level of heat and ear grease to cook and then it slows way down.  YMMV and different foam brands may react differently.  For instance: HieGi do not seem to exhibit this behavior much.  VE and FiiO (my overall favorite foams I've tried) do.





JAnonymous5150 said:


> Without measurements just AB listening between my two sets of FF3s, one with old foams and one with new, I have noticed this effect too. It's not drastic, but it's clearly audible. This is one of the reasons the bass foams end up being too much for me because they start off borderline and end up crossing the line for sure when the foams break in.


I was going to ask if your ears verify this change (just to make sure you're lining up the graphs in the right spot), because that is a big change (IMO) in the pina gain especially. Thanks for sharing that bro. I know you have mentioned this before, but now you have some pretty solid evidence that it DOES in fact change over time (not that I didn't believe you before mind you). 


Ronion said:


> I'm in that same boat.  I'm actually going to try for Crisp at the moment and wait it out to hear/see.  The bass--even though it does make the bass on the buds awesome, it kills the treble too much in the long run.  The FiiO engineers may know their business well after all as that's what they claim to use.
> 
> Oh, and you guys posted so much in the last 2 days, it's going to take me a week to catch up!  Jeez...


I felt the same about the bass foams as both yourself and @JAnonymous5150 even when the FF3 were brand new, and I immediately went for donuts, then crisp. I ended up with the crisp foams because the ear gain was a tad too much for me with just donuts. With the crisp foams, it is just about in the sweet spot (for me). I haven't looked back since then. 

As @JAnonymous5150 mentioned, sonically overall it isn't that big of a change, but for me it could be the difference between physical pain, and being able to enjoy the music/sounds... I have never noticed it before myself because all of the ones (that I have) that are boosted too much in that region are so far boosted, that even a 3dB reduction could not bring it below the pain threshold (with any volume applied). 

Apologies (for my part) for posting so much that isn't relevant to earbuds. I haven't been around for a while and wanted to get caught up with my (other) family....


----------



## dsonance

samandhi said:


> I felt the same about the bass foams as both yourself and @JAnonymous5150 even when the FF3 were brand new, and I immediately went for donuts, then crisp. I ended up with the crisp foams because the ear gain was a tad too much for me with just donuts. With the crisp foams, it is just about in the sweet spot (for me). I haven't looked back since then.


I think, you mean Balanced, not Crisp.  Of the 3 types of foams included with the FF3, the Crisp ones were the donuts.


----------



## samandhi

dsonance said:


> I think, you mean Balanced, not Crisp.  Of the 3 types of foams included with the FF3, the Crisp ones were the donuts.


Ah, yes. I don't know what I was thinking when I typed it, but you are correct. Thanks for setting me straight...


----------



## feverfive

My FF5 were delivered today, and since I am working from home, have had the chance to fiddle with those rings and my favored ear foams (from Venture Electronics; mostly because I can use red for right and blue for left, LOL---why do earbud makers insist on making it so hard to determine at a glance which is right & left? hahaha).

I need to spend time with these.  I am also a relative neophyte when it comes to buds.  I will say as an initial impression: pretty impressed by the quality for money spent, and these make me want to say screw it and take a dive into TGXear buds, even though I am loathe to buy transducers requiring desktop-level amping (I am 100% portable, have been for over a decade, and have zero interest in being tied to a stationary rig).


----------



## JAnonymous5150

dsonance said:


> I think, you mean Balanced, not Crisp.  Of the 3 types of foams included with the FF3, the Crisp ones were the donuts.



Yeppers! When I said I use the crisp foams, it would have been more correct for me to say I use the crisp donut foams. Today I have a new offset design that I made and am testing on my FF3s. Listening with them right now while I'm modifying some drum hardware and they sounds darn good so far, but I haven't done any AB testing with the regular Fiio crisp donuts yet.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

feverfive said:


> My FF5 were delivered today, and since I am working from home, have had the chance to fiddle with those rings and my favored ear foams (from Venture Electronics; mostly because I can use red for right and blue for left, LOL---why do earbud makers insist on making it so hard to determine at a glance which is right & left? hahaha).
> 
> I need to spend time with these.  I am also a relative neophyte when it comes to buds.  I will say as an initial impression: pretty impressed by the quality for money spent, and these make me want to say screw it and take a dive into TGXear buds, even though I am loathe to buy transducers requiring desktop-level amping (I am 100% portable, have been for over a decade, and have zero interest in being tied to a stationary rig).



Congrats on the new FF5s! FWIW, I find my Serratus to be able to be driven by some of my more powerful portable combos and DAPs. My ifi Gryphon, Cayin N8ii, and A&K Kann Alpha all drive it just fine. The VE Megatron has the power as well (I have used it with buds that are harder to drive than the Serratus), but I haven't tried it yet. I have some other devices that are a bit less powerful that I suspect would still be able to handle the Serratus, but the point is that you can, in fact, use them in a portable application.


----------



## ttorbic

feverfive said:


> My FF5 were delivered today, and since I am working from home, have had the chance to fiddle with those rings and my favored ear foams (from Venture Electronics; mostly because I can use red for right and blue for left, LOL---why do earbud makers insist on making it so hard to determine at a glance which is right & left? hahaha).
> 
> I need to spend time with these.  I am also a relative neophyte when it comes to buds.  I will say as an initial impression: pretty impressed by the quality for money spent, and these make me want to say screw it and take a dive into TGXear buds, even though I am loathe to buy transducers requiring desktop-level amping (I am 100% portable, have been for over a decade, and have zero interest in being tied to a stationary rig).


I've used Qudelix, Megatron, and iFi Zen stack (increasing power), and I must admit...differences aren't night and day. Sure, some changes yes, but not as big as going from my Rikubuds Alter Rider 1 to Serratus (note: I don't mean in terms of quality but mainly tuning). 

TLDR: get the Serratus lol


----------



## drewbadour

feverfive said:


> I am loathe to buy transducers requiring desktop-level amping (I am 100% portable, have been for over a decade, and have zero interest in being tied to a stationary rig).


I'm running Ripples through my computer headphone jack directly right now without amping and it sounds great - 30% volume is comfortably loud! My phone also powers it like a champ!


----------



## o0genesis0o

feverfive said:


> even though I am loathe to buy transducers requiring desktop-level amping (I am 100% portable, have been for over a decade, and have zero interest in being tied to a stationary rig).



Serratus (300ohm) is not that difficult to get volume. All of my dongles can drive these loud with less than 50% volume. I think the actual output power requirements of these devices are kinda exaggerated. Even the legendary HD800S does not take much to get loud with plenty volume left to turn. 

Not to say that all DAC/Amp sounds the same though. Serratus sounds noticeably better with relatively high end gears like Topping G5 or Shanling M6U in my collection. More separation, more textured and details, more refined bass notes, larger stage.


----------



## ttorbic

drewbadour said:


> I'm running Ripples through my computer headphone jack directly right now without amping and it sounds great - 30% volume is comfortably loud! My phone also powers it like a champ!


Ripples is only 100 Ohms though, so makes sense! I'm still waiting for mine... Hopefully it's not lost...


----------



## drewbadour

ttorbic said:


> Ripples is only 100 Ohms though, so makes sense! I'm still waiting for mine... Hopefully it's not lost...


Yep! I'm not hearing too much of a difference (if at all) between computer/phone and g5 - which makes me super happy 'cause that means Ripples no longer is limited to use through the G5! Will be great for on-the-go or when working away from home. The Serratus, on the other hand, sounds noticeably different through G5 and computer/phone!


----------



## o0genesis0o

drewbadour said:


> Yep! I'm not hearing too much of a difference (if at all) between computer/phone and g5 - which makes me super happy 'cause that means Ripples no longer is limited to use through the G5! Will be great for on-the-go or when working away from home. The Serratus, on the other hand, sounds noticeably different through G5 and computer/phone!



I guess between 32ohm and 125ohm, the current demand of these transducers are not high enough to cause real trouble to the amp stage of most stuffs. Most of the difference would come from the implementation of DAC and Amp rather than the sheer output power   Manufacturers should focus on getting their stuffs within this sweet spot more.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> I guess between 32ohm and 125ohm, the current demand of these transducers are not high enough to cause real trouble to the amp stage of most stuffs. Most of the difference would come from the implementation of DAC and Amp rather than the sheer output power   Manufacturers should focus on getting their stuffs within this sweet spot more.



Now you see why even though I have amps with plenty of power, I prefer to use buds that are 300ohms or less and are reasonable efficient so that their power requirements don't become a limiting factor in their use. Obviously, I own some others, but those are exceptions that were either given to me or were purchased bevause they promised unique performance that I couldn't get elsewhere. 

The majority of buds like that that have ended up in my hands have been sold on and when I do my DIY builds I haven't used anything beyond 300ohm yet. With the way I tend to use buds, it's just more practical. Though I have to say that my @FranQL Blue Voodoo 600s get quite a bit of ear time because they're basically tuned exactly as I would have tuned them myself and they have a pretty crazy level of resolution. My experience with those has me planning a 600ohm bery build just so I can experiment to see what those drivers are capable of.


----------



## mochill

Newbsound legend 😁


----------



## Ronion (Dec 14, 2022)

samandhi said:


> I was going to ask if your ears verify this change (just to make sure you're lining up the graphs in the right spot), because that is a big change (IMO) in the pina gain especially. Thanks for sharing that bro. I know you have mentioned this before, but now you have some pretty solid evidence that it DOES in fact change over time (not that I didn't believe you before mind you).
> 
> I felt the same about the bass foams as both yourself and @JAnonymous5150 even when the FF3 were brand new, and I immediately went for donuts, then crisp. I ended up with the crisp foams because the ear gain was a tad too much for me with just donuts. With the crisp foams, it is just about in the sweet spot (for me). I haven't looked back since then.
> 
> ...


my ears agree with the measurements—probably more dramatically on the bass than the treble though.  My best guess is that it’s due to the softening of the foam allowing/requiring a deeper seat to get a stable fit and then the pores compress more and kill the treble.  These changes are consistent bud to bud and have been every time I’ve measured it.  Once I change the foams, it’s back to the start—or at least very near the start depending on which foams I use. 


o0genesis0o said:


> I guess between 32ohm and 125ohm, the current demand of these transducers are not high enough to cause real trouble to the amp stage of most stuffs. Most of the difference would come from the implementation of DAC and Amp rather than the sheer output power   Manufacturers should focus on getting their stuffs within this sweet spot more.


This is definitely a problem with the Megatron—particular noticeable in balanced mode. Right off the bat it’s loud and then only gradually increases in output as you turn up the volume.  I bet the gain is quite high and they use a linear pot.  If you want your music really quiet, you’ll need something very inefficient.  Earbud drivers are darn efficient in general.  It works perfectly with the 600 though but something like the 32BeeGee would probably fry your eggs 🍳 just for trying it.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> my ears agree with the measurements—probably more dramatically on the bass than the treble though.  My best guess is that it’s due to the softening of the foam allowing/requiring a deeper seat to get a stable fit and then the pores compress more and kill the treble.  These changes are consistent bud to bud and have been every time I’ve measured it.  Once I change the foams, it’s back to the start—or at least very near the start depending on which foams I use.
> 
> This is definitely a problem with the Megatron—particular noticeable in balanced mode. Right off the bat it’s loud and then only gradually increases in output as you turn up the volume.  I bet the gain is quite high and they use a linear pot.  If you want your music really quiet, you’ll need something very inefficient.  Earbud drivers are darn efficient in general.  It works perfectly with the 600 though but something like the 32BeeGee would probably fry your eggs 🍳 just for trying it.



Well, in a pinch you can plug and impedance adapter in and it will allow you to use more efficient/lower impedance stuff with the Megatron.


----------



## Ronion (Dec 14, 2022)

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Well, in a pinch you can plug and impedance adapter in and it will allow you to use more efficient/lower impedance stuff with the Megatron.


I use something more 'normal' TBH like an Apple dongle, or my S8.  They are more convenient anyway.  For the big boys however, I love the Megatron.  It's volume could be entirely under digital control...  IDK, but any output is high from the start.  I even like its response with the SE output and 300 Ohm buds.  It's very nice for that as well.  It seems considerably more powerful than the S8 though which is odd considering they have similar output rating in that configuration.

Edit: Megatron rated at 10mW into 300Ohm vs 14mW measured for the S8.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> I use something more 'normal' TBH like an Apple dongle, or my S8.  They are more convenient anyway.  For the big boys however, I love the Megatron.  It's volume could be entirely under digital control...  IDK, but any output is high from the start.  I even like its response with the SE output and 300 Ohm buds.  It's very nice for that as well.  It seems considerably more powerful than the S8 though which is odd considering they have similar output rating in that configuration.
> 
> Edit: Megatron rated at 10mW into 300Ohm vs 14mW measured for the S8.


It might come down to the tuning of the amps (or synergy if you will) because I don't think that 4mW will make that much of a difference in the way they are driven (IMHO), like you said. And also remember that we are thinking that the Megatron specs seem to be underrated from the manufacturer. 

Keep in mind though that unless we are correct and the Megatron is pushing more power than what is stated and the drivers are more efficient than 103dB/1mW, both amps are (most likely) not driving them fully. It is close though (needs 16mW), but depending on the volume and how much DNR is in the song (among other factors e.g. voltage swing, etc...), it may or may not reveal this to your ears.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> I use something more 'normal' TBH like an Apple dongle, or my S8.



No doubt. I generally do the same thing. I was just pointing out another possibility in case one happens to be in a situation where the Megatron is your option or if someone specifically wants to use the Megatron for whatever reason. 

I actually keep the Megatron in a zip up case I have that I originally bought for a DAP that I used to have but sold off before the case showed up. In the accessory pouch inside the case I keep any cables I might need and I have a full range if impedance adapters. Basically, should the need arise I have everything I need to make the Megatron as versatile as possible. Also, I should note that in experimenting with impedance adapters I have actually found a few cases where I prefer the sound of a particular transducer when using a certain impedance adapter.

There used to be a store on AliExpress that sold a set of impedance adapters (32ohm, 75ohm, 150ohm, 225ohm, 300ohm, 400ohm, 500ohm) so I purchased the set when I was looking for an adapter to allow me to lower the noise floor on DIY tube amp I made. The funny thing is that they come in handy in ways you'd never expect. Apparently VE is even selling a 4.4mm balanced impedance adapter for use with the Megatron or will be soon if they haven't released it yet.

Anyways, I'll stop rambling after I say one last thing. I mentioned on this thread the other day that I tend to keep buds in my collection that have something they excel at or something that makes them unique. I haven't listened to my ES-P1s in quite a while so I threw them on this evening and, IMO, they're great at a lot of things, but the one thing that always immediately hits me after some time away from them is just how incredibly realistic they sound with some of my favorite tracks. They have such accurate timbre and tone for drums, bass guitars, guitars, male vocals, and a host of other acoustic instruments that sometimes when I'm listening it sounds very much like I'm right there with the artist live. That just never gets old to me and it's why they remain a very special and often used pair in my collection. 👌🤘😍😎

Now I'll shut up...


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> No doubt. I generally do the same thing. I was just pointing out another possibility in case one happens to be in a situation where the Megatron is your option or if someone specifically wants to use the Megatron for whatever reason.
> 
> I actually keep the Megatron in a zip up case I have that I originally bought for a DAP that I used to have but sold off before the case showed up. In the accessory pouch inside the case I keep any cables I might need and I have a full range if impedance adapters. Basically, should the need arise I have everything I need to make the Megatron as versatile as possible. Also, I should note that in experimenting with impedance adapters I have actually found a few cases where I prefer the sound of a particular transducer when using a certain impedance adapter.
> 
> ...


I really wanted to get those a couple years ago. It wasn't in the stars for me for those, and I ended up with the Chaconne instead. You have (several times now) renewed my interest in them...


----------



## Ronion

I'm going to test the Megatron powering the A5 tonight.  It should be interesting.  I haven't used it that way yet.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> I really wanted to get those a couple years ago. It wasn't in the stars for me for those, and I ended up with the Chaconne instead. You have (several times now) renewed my interest in them...



I actually came across your posts where you were discussing buying them while I was doing a search about them before I bought them and started posting on this thread. It's like the earbud circle of life...😉


----------



## JAnonymous5150

Ronion said:


> I'm going to test the Megatron powering the A5 tonight.  It should be interesting.  I haven't used it that way yet.



Let us know how it works out for you. I have used the line out to a couple of my amps when I'm just chillin' and I want the Megatron's synergy, but want more usuable and accurate volume control. It definitely doesn't pair as well with some amps as others so I'll be interested to hear how the A5 pairs with it.


----------



## o0genesis0o

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Let us know how it works out for you. I have used the line out to a couple of my amps when I'm just chillin' and I want the Megatron's synergy, but want more usuable and accurate volume control. It definitely doesn't pair as well with some amps as others so I'll be interested to hear how the A5 pairs with it.


Ummm, what is A5?


----------



## JAnonymous5150

o0genesis0o said:


> Ummm, what is A5?



I assume he meant the Fiio A5 which is a portable headphone amp. I think he has mentioned owning one before, IIRC.


----------



## Gifting (Dec 15, 2022)

I recently bought some tuning foams and white papers to mod my BG 150 ohm earbud. I followed Rary's Rivet Mod in his DIY guide. Plugged in the faux vents too. Soundstage and bass increased greatly! The bassiest earbud I've ever heard. But seems like mids and highs took a backseat. My goal is to make the BG sound like the NiceHCK MX500 (which has very forward vocals), but keep the bass. You guys think that goal is possible with further mods? Right now, the BG has two low density foams (on the driver and shell).







If you think it's possible, I'll continue modding it! This is my first time modding an earbud.

Edit: I changed the color of the graph, for better viewing. I think the words were hard to see


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Let us know how it works out for you. I have used the line out to a couple of my amps when I'm just chillin' and I want the Megatron's synergy, but want more usuable and accurate volume control. It definitely doesn't pair as well with some amps as others so I'll be interested to hear how the A5 pairs with it.


When we looked at the graphs of the Megatron and the other amps I had on hand, it basically measured identical compared to my MacBook's output except is was lacking a little air.  Well, it's interesting listening to these 2 outputs back and forth and with and without the A5 thrown in: the Megatron just seems radically more powerful and dynamic than the MacBook's output no matter if you are listening through the A5 while using the Megatron as just a DAC or the Megatron on its own.  The FR would say something totally different.  The Megatron just sounds different and the A5 Just sounds like whichever device is feeding it.  I literally tried it in every configuration.  I almost don't believe my ears because I have no evidence to back anything I say and that just doesn't work well with me.  The Megatron seems to have more bite on anything brass, more separation and dynamics.  Soundstage might be a bit more 2 dimensional, but not dramatically so.   The preouts on the Megatron do sound a bit thinner than the regular SE output, but turning the bass boost on the A5 rectifies that.  I hate to say this because I'm going to sound like a shill or something, but I love the Megatron vs. my MacBook's output.  I was wrong before when I said that the Megatron lacked the intensity and bite of my Immortal Beloved e12MB (that was unfortunately mortal though my love is not), now it seems to match my memory quite well only I'd say it's slightly clearer (all by memory so take this with a grain of salt).  I was still in mourning.  That amp had been with me a long time and had travelled to 3 continents and was my first portable amplifier.  In any case, the A5 still sounds like whatever it's fed only bigger and the Megatron is a worthy dish.  Maybe it's not the most neutral or accurate (or maybe it is. IDK what the original sounded like), but it has a goodness to it in a similar manner to my e12MB.  It's definitely quirkier than the e12MB, but I enjoy what it does and ultimately that's what matter in this hobby.






o0genesis0o said:


> Ummm, what is A5?


A FiiO product that was made a long time ago in a Galaxy far away.  The last of the best portable amps and mine is in pristine condition.    Love this thing.


Gifting said:


> I recently bought some tuning foams and white papers to mod my BG 150 ohm earbud. I followed Rary's Rivet Mod in his DIY guide. Plugged in the faux vents too. Soundstage and bass increased greatly! The bassiest earbud I've ever heard. But seems like mids and highs took a backseat. My goal is to make the BG sound like the NiceHCK MX500 (which has very forward vocals), but keep the bass. You guys think that goal is possible with further mods? Right now, the BG has two low density foams (on the driver and shell).
> 
> 
> If you think it's possible, I'll continue modding it! This is my first time modding an earbud.
> ...


It actually looks like that driver may be tuned pretty darn well.  You might try a thinner foam on it first if you have any selection available to you.  That's where I would start just to hear/see.  The bass of that tuning looks pretty fun as it is.  If you want to reduce it, you could just fill the port with something like tiny rolls of paper rolled up like miniature spliffs to reduce the internal volume or the port or gradually move tape across it until you like it. 

I'd also limit your graph to 20 or 40Hz.  That will make for a prettier and more useful picture.

Cheers on the build!  Great job!


----------



## Ronion (Dec 15, 2022)

The measurements stay true from before, but I took this one of the FiiO bass boost:




I should take it with a bassier bud...... See what it does down low.  Alas, that will have to be for a future date.


----------



## Gifting (Dec 15, 2022)

Ronion said:


> It actually looks like that driver may be tuned pretty darn well.  You might try a thinner foam on it first if you have any selection available to you.  That's where I would start just to hear/see.  The bass of that tuning looks pretty fun as it is.  If you want to reduce it, you could just fill the port with something like tiny rolls of paper rolled up like miniature spliffs to reduce the internal volume or the port or gradually move tape across it until you like it.
> 
> I'd also limit your graph to 20 or 40Hz.  That will make for a prettier and more useful picture.
> 
> Cheers on the build!  Great job!


That's good to know! I measured these without foams. I think I have thinner foams somewhere....the mids and treble sounds better! Weird, I didn't get this effect with donut foams. Unfortunately the bass isn't as impactful anymore...
Maybe I should put two medium density horseshoes (for shell and driver), along with the thinner foams I currently have on...
I will fill the port with paper and try the tape mod first though (to be used with normal foams).

I will limit my graphs next time to 20 hz 
Thanks for the compliment!

Now I'm interested in graphing the FF3 and comparing them to the riveted BG's.....maybe once I get my ideal sound out of this build first....

Edit:  I don't think I will mess with it anymore! I put a donut foam on top of the thinner foam. It sounds great! And the bass came back! Thanks for the advice!
And thank you @furyossa for the "cold weather" mod! First time trying it out. I saw it in the DIY earbuds thread.


----------



## ttorbic

Just fyi, VE now sells impedance adaptors of 25, 50, and 75 Ohms SE: https://www.veclan.com/phone/eac_phone_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=85. 

I wish they sold 4.4 bal impedance adaptors too...


----------



## JAnonymous5150

ttorbic said:


> Just fyi, VE now sells impedance adaptors of 25, 50, and 75 Ohms SE: https://www.veclan.com/phone/eac_phone_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=85.
> 
> I wish they sold 4.4 bal impedance adaptors too...



They are supposed to be releasing one in 4.4mm soon. I read about it on either the Megatron thread or the VE appreciation thread.


----------



## ShaneyMac

ttorbic said:


> Just fyi, VE now sells impedance adaptors of 25, 50, and 75 Ohms SE: https://www.veclan.com/phone/eac_phone_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=85.
> 
> I wish they sold 4.4 bal impedance adaptors too...


Noob question: What are these adapters for? Can you explain when you use them?


----------



## baskingshark (Dec 15, 2022)

ShaneyMac said:


> Noob question: What are these adapters for? Can you explain when you use them?



Basically they mitigate hiss and also allow easier volume control for sensitive IEMs paired with sources like the megatron with not so great noise floor control/or too much power on tap.

However, the downside, is that these impedance adapters may skew the frequency response of the transducer, so the sound signature may change, especially if sensitive multi driver types are used with impedance adapters - so essentially, you may fix one area, but you introduce another problem which is a change in the FR.


----------



## ttorbic

ShaneyMac said:


> Noob question: What are these adapters for? Can you explain when you use them?


@baskingshark pretty much covered it, but if you want a video explanation, this is a good source:


----------



## ShaneyMac

@ttorbic & @baskingshark :  Thank you, guys!


----------



## samandhi (Dec 15, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> Basically they mitigate hiss and also allow easier volume control for sensitive IEMs paired with sources like the megatron with not so great noise floor control/or too much power on tap.
> 
> However, the downside, is that these impedance adapters may skew the frequency response of the transducer, so the sound signature may change, especially if sensitive multi driver types are used with impedance adapters - so essentially, you may fix one area, but you introduce another problem which is a change in the FR.


Excellent explanation. In order to further understand what this might also mean; I also submit the "rule of eights". This isn't a hard and fast rule, but simply a starting point.

I am sure that most people have heard of matching loudspeakers with an amplifier for the best efficiency and best sound?! Well, it also applies to head gear as well. We can start with a bit of an explanation to help with clarity where explanations are concerned. Remember that when we talk about impedance, we are not simply talking about resistance. That only applies to DC circuits. Music is supplied to drivers in an AC circuit. Having said that, definition of impedance is the amalgamation of resistance with capacitance and/or inductance. Now, it isn't necessary to know the definition of the three per se'. It is enough to understand that when we talk of impedance it isn't a simple cut & dry number and there are many factors that come into play when we ask why this is so loud but not (on paper) getting the power it is SUPPOSED to require from the amplifier.

Each driver (mostly with DD type drivers) isn't perfect. Normally, the factory specified impedance and efficiency is based on a flat curve. The problem is that mildy good to poor quality drivers are going to have impedance spikes (especially in the higher frequencies and lower frequencies). This also holds true to higher end drivers, but they have less of them at less amounts of frequencies.

It is generally ideal to "match" drivers to amplifiers. What that means is you generally want to take the impedance of the head gear and divide it by 8. That should be around where you want to be with your output impedance to achieve the resonant response (ideal power that drives it the best) from the driver along most of the frequency curve. This is all assuming the amplifier is capable of delivering the right amount of voltage and biasing (current). If you correctly match the drivers to the amplifier, even if/when you DO have damping issues and/or distortions, they generally tend to be controlled enough (somewhere around 1dB) that your ears can't hear them.

On the other side of things, as @baskingshark suggests, you can use one of these adapters as a sort of "filter" on very low impedance head gear. Also as explained, because you have skewed your ideal "match" for the driver, you will get varying results (most times a skewed FR somewhere along the curve). This seems contradictory to what has been said earlier, insofar as you are now higher in impedance on the output side than you are on the head gear. This is why it can produce varying results and aren't really predictable. It is one of those things that "you just have to experiment" with to get "your" best sound from that particular head gear. There is no "one size fits all", so keep that in mind. 

So, let's take a well known set of cans as an example for all of this. The Sennheiser HD650 will do. As you can see from the graph below, they are indeed 300 ohm cans, but there is a 200ohm spike in impedance at 100hz. This is one of the reasons that they scale so much with more power BTW. If you use this knowledge, you can match the output impedance of the amplifier to the headphones to get the best sound from them you can. Using this, and provided you have the power output, and biasing in your amplifier, you will most likely not notice this spike near as much, or at all.



Spoiler: Sennheiser HD650 Impedance Curve








 There are many other factors that can exacerbate this issue, but we won't go into those here (e.g. the more dynamic range a song has, the worse this area might sound in a non-matched environment, and etc...)

Most simply look at that power output of the amplifier nowadays. Normally when you have a high powered device, you can assume that the other numbers will also be good (and sometimes they are where more high end equipment is concerned). The problem is that there aren't a ton of people doing the math, and with cheaper amplifiers, these numbers can be inflated or decreased depending on what (single) area the factory focuses on. You could have tremendous power output, but if your DNR is not good, you will run into sound issues with higher impedance gear (as a for instance).

Having said that, it is my suggestion that if you want the best sound you can get, you should get to know ALL of these numbers and know how to apply them to the overall picture of what you are after. With the advent of cheaper Chinese gear, they have figured out how to appeal to the masses with cheap gear that is maybe half of a complete picture for sounding their best (a compromise if you will).

This isn't to say that some amps aren't just overpriced, but there is a reason that SOME gear is much more expensive than others. Take a cheap piece of gear and compare it to higher end gear (the numbers) and you might be surprised by what you are seeing. This is one of the reasons I advocate for the device I use. If you look at everything that is included (numbers), there aren't hardly ANY compromises made, so it then becomes a straightforward math to see if I can use X head gear, or Y head gear correctly.

But, I also want to be clear in saying that you CAN have marvelous sound with a cheaper device. This is all up to what sounds good to you, after all.

P.S. I truly wish I had @o0genesis0o's gift of writing my thoughts down, and I hope that this didn't come across as ramblings or offensive to anyone?! I can see it all so clear in my head, I simply have a hard time putting it out there for others to understand...  🤷‍♂️


----------



## Ronion

JAnonymous5150 said:


> They are supposed to be releasing one in 4.4mm soon. I read about it on either the Megatron thread or the VE appreciation thread.


I may just start using the adapters for the Megatron after all.  Doing the side by side comparisons makes me think I need a little more cowbell Megatron.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

ShaneyMac said:


> Noob question: What are these adapters for? Can you explain when you use them?



Let me add to the great explanation that @baskingshark gave you, that sometimes the changes that these impedance adapters introduce can be desirable and there is actually a considerable history of IEM manufacturers, most notably Etymotic, using various resistors to shape the sound and or mitigate certain shortcomings of their IEMs. I have played around with the adapters I have and on some IEMs they make little to no difference, some change for the worse, and some actually change for the better.


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> Excellent explanation. In order to further understand what this might also mean; I also submit the "rule of eights". This isn't a hard and fast rule, but simply a starting point.
> 
> I am sure that most people have heard of matching loudspeakers with an amplifier for the best efficiency and best sound?! Well, it also applies to head gear as well. We can start with a bit of an explanation to help with clarity where explanations are concerned. Remember that when we talk about impedance, we are not simply talking about resistance. That only applies to DC circuits. Music is supplied to drivers in an AC circuit. Having said that, definition of impedance is the amalgamation of resistance with capacitance and/or inductance. Now, it isn't necessary to know the definition of the three per se'. It is enough to understand that when we talk of impedance it isn't a simple cut & dry number and there are many factors that come into play when we ask why this is so loud but not (on paper) getting the power it is SUPPOSED to require from the amplifier.
> 
> ...



Nah, mate, you are good. I sat down, read the whole thing, and learned a lot from it. Looking at the articles from Jason from Schiit, it’s apparent that there are a lot of things to measure and a lot of ways to doctor the results without outright lying.


----------



## silverszi

jeejack said:


> Good choice!


recommended by riku for the pinnalet that i am


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Nah, mate, you are good. I sat down, read the whole thing, and learned a lot from it. Looking at the articles from Jason from Schiit, it’s apparent that there are a lot of things to measure and a lot of ways to doctor the results without outright lying.


Thank you! 

There are indeed a lot of things to measure, it is also indeed true that some results can be doctored, left out, or otherwise listed as false. Unlike days of old (at least here in the US), a company could be held responsible for not divulging the full truth, and with accuracy. Seems like nowadays (especially Chinese companies) the lack of truth can be blamed on simple translation. 

Case in point, the Raptgo Hook-X. It says right on the box "Bone Conducting", but they are in fact NOT at all. They use a piezoelectric driver though, which is often used as such, but can also be used as "air conducting" drivers just like other drivers. I have never seen anywhere where Raptgo answers this claim, nor do you see this said on any of the specs when looking online at their resellers. This is except when they had first advertised them where it DID say this. At some point those words simply disappeared except on the box they come in (and some small amount of reviewers that were taken in by the claim).


----------



## ttorbic

Anyone tried Kobe Audio earbuds? These look nice... Do they sound good too?
https://www.facebook.com/1002764085...pVyFuNWxvmB1HT4KVxLpfjpusejDU1fL2m9JutdhAnkl/


----------



## dsonance

Just spotted the FF5 on US Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BP6ZMSGJ
Current price $129.99, Prime delivery Dec 29 - Jan 9.


----------



## samandhi

ttorbic said:


> Anyone tried Kobe Audio earbuds? These look nice... Do they sound good too?
> https://www.facebook.com/1002764085...pVyFuNWxvmB1HT4KVxLpfjpusejDU1fL2m9JutdhAnkl/


Dang! Those look fire for less than $100. If you hear any more about them do let us know here???


----------



## thehipeey (Dec 15, 2022)

Good evneing,

Most likely a done to death topic, but I thought earbuds were dead before I found this thread, like a progression of a piece of tech, earbuds turned into IEMS, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Does anyone have a summary of sorts as to the main differences between iems and buds? From what I can gather, equivalent performance buds require much greater power, have little to no seal to the ear, resulting in reduced sub-bass,, but a much wider (more natural?) soundstage. But this feels like a poor comparison.

I greatly prefer cable-down iems, but I've never considered earbuds, since the last pair I tried came with cassette player from the 90s. I've ordered some Fiio FF3s, since from reading the thread, most people have a favourable impression of them (and the fact I can order from Amazon is a big plus), so I'll get to know the style of sound pretty soon, but is there anything I should know before they arrive as to give myself the best experience with them.

As an aside, I'll be using them on a FIIO K7, and a Topping G5, both with .Flac files.


----------



## baskingshark

thehipeey said:


> Good evneing,
> 
> Most likely a done to death topic, but I thought earbuds were dead before I found this thread, like a progression of a piece of tech, earbuds turned into IEMS, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Does anyone have a summary of sorts as to the main differences between iems and buds? From what I can gather, equivalent performance buds require much greater power, have little to no seal to the ear, resulting in reduced sub-bass,, but a much wider (more natural?) soundstage. But this feels like a poor comparison.
> 
> ...



Yes what you said is correct.* I think of earbuds as being closer to open backed headphones than IEMs.


1) Sub-bass/isolation differences*
Generally IEMs have more sub-bass due to better isolation. Earbuds are situated outside the ear canal, so they don't seal and hence you don't get sub-bass rumble (in general). There are some earbuds with a labryinthe design like the Smabat series that can get some sub-bass quantity, but they pale in comparison to basshead IEMs.

*2) Soundstage differences*
Earbuds (like open backed headphones), generally will kill IEMs in soundstage. IEMs in comparison sound very "in your head".

*3) Timbre*
Earbuds generally use dynamic drivers, and may have more natural timbre than some multi BA/planar type IEMs.

*4) Price*
Earbuds usually give better price to performance ratio than IEMs. $1 can get u a Vido earbud which is quite decent. $20 - 50 may be considered midFI for earbuds? $100 can get you TOTL earbuds.
Whereas IEMs are probably thought of as $100 and below as being budget, midFI may be $300 - 500? And perhaps TOTL is $1000ish.
So we are talking about a 10x price differential at the various tiers.

*5) Drivability*
Unlike most easy to drive IEMs, some earbuds come in very high impedance, and may need amplification to scale.


Yep so this brings me back to the first point of thinking of earbuds as mini open backed headphones, but without the clamp or heat issues of pads. IEMs and earbuds are complementary rather than competing, they bring different things to the table.


----------



## samandhi

thehipeey said:


> Good evneing,
> 
> Most likely a done to death topic, but I thought earbuds were dead before I found this thread, like a progression of a piece of tech, earbuds turned into IEMS, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Does anyone have a summary of sorts as to the main differences between iems and buds? From what I can gather, equivalent performance buds require much greater power, have little to no seal to the ear, resulting in reduced sub-bass,, but a much wider (more natural?) soundstage. But this feels like a poor comparison.
> 
> ...


Your summation is pretty accurate IMO. Put simply, I would not compare earbuds to IEMs at all, I would think of them as more akin to open back headphones without having the feeling on your head... 

You picked some of the best as a first venture into flatheads (since your days of the "crappy" ones) IMO. They are super easy to drive, and while they DO sound fantastic, I don't think they are particularly picky on the quality of music you play through them (though 96K .mp3 will probably not sound good in anything). 

Welcome to the thread, and do let us know your impressions on your new Shiny?! Also, don't hesitate to ask any questions here, because I find the people here are probably the most knowledgeable and helpful of all the threads that I might visit on Head-Fi.


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> Yes what you said is correct.* I think of earbuds as being closer to open backed headphones than IEMs.*


LOL! Great minds think alike...🧠


----------



## o0genesis0o

thehipeey said:


> Good evneing,
> 
> Most likely a done to death topic, but I thought earbuds were dead before I found this thread, like a progression of a piece of tech, earbuds turned into IEMS, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Does anyone have a summary of sorts as to the main differences between iems and buds? From what I can gather, equivalent performance buds require much greater power, have little to no seal to the ear, resulting in reduced sub-bass,, but a much wider (more natural?) soundstage. But this feels like a poor comparison.
> 
> ...




IEMs are like earplugs that can play music. I sometimes put IEMs on without music, just for some silence without stressing my ears with music.

Earbuds are more like open back headphones. You have no noise isolation at all, so if you are out and about, good luck. The benefit is a more natural sound (usually), more comfort (due to not having a thing jammed in your ear holes), and larger soundstage. I don't think they are always hard to drive or having low sub-bass.

64 Audio had an advertisement of their Duo (open-back IEM) where they compare the listening experience with opening the doors and windows. The same can be said for buds. Because of the open sensation, you can feel that the soundstage expands and diffuse into the world around you, whilst IEMs with good staging like Andromeda can feel like you are put in an isolating room and the sound bouncing all around your head. I would say that none of these head-fi sound like a real 2 channel loudspeaker system. 

You have good gear to go with FF3. I think you would enjoy them. I also use G5 with FF3.


----------



## thehipeey

Thank you for all your replies, hopefully they will arrive before the weekend, and while I've never really reviewed anything, I can give my impressions as someone who's wholly new to earbuds. 

Just a few questions to add; 

Are there different styles of earbud shapes? Flathead seem to be the most common, are there others? 
Is there a defacto "best of" list of earbuds?
Video reviews of earbuds seem to be non-existent, have I just not searched hard enough?
Curiously, since there is little isolation, are earbuds audible to others in a quiet place? (given sensible volume levels)
Are there some genres of music that just aren't suited to earbuds? 
Thank you for the warm welcome, I wish you all a happy holidays


----------



## fooltoque

ttorbic said:


> Anyone tried Kobe Audio earbuds? These look nice... Do they sound good too?
> https://www.facebook.com/1002764085...pVyFuNWxvmB1HT4KVxLpfjpusejDU1fL2m9JutdhAnkl/



Wow, those do look really nice. Style wise, I would rock those all day.


----------



## o0genesis0o

thehipeey said:


> Just a few questions to add;
> 
> Are there different styles of earbud shapes? Flathead seem to be the most common, are there others?
> Is there a defacto "best of" list of earbuds?
> ...



If you have discord, you can join other earbuds geek on this server: https://discord.gg/8YgQbYux 
We have lots of geeks and DIYers to answer your questions. 

Video reviews are indeed non-existent. I mean, let's face it, outside a few hardcore geeks (here), the form factor of earbuds is pretty much dead. I did some listening tests with casual listeners, and they don't care at all about the soundstage imaging that we audio geeks value so much here. Even the "best" buds driven by my amplifiers receive lukewarm perception at most. A decent IEM like Blessing 2 receives stronger interest.

Earbuds are audible to my wife if she sits right next to me (like really pressing her ears against the buds). They are not as leaky as my HD560S headphone.

I think anything that requires a lot of continuous subbass rumble is not a good choice for buds. Bassy punchy stuffs are fine, most of the time.


----------



## thehipeey

o0genesis0o said:


> If you have discord, you can join other earbuds geek on this server: https://discord.gg/8YgQbYux
> We have lots of geeks and DIYers to answer your questions.
> 
> Video reviews are indeed non-existent. I mean, let's face it, outside a few hardcore geeks (here), the form factor of earbuds is pretty much dead. I did some listening tests with casual listeners, and they don't care at all about the soundstage imaging that we audio geeks value so much here. Even the "best" buds driven by my amplifiers receive lukewarm perception at most. A decent IEM like Blessing 2 receives stronger interest.
> ...


I'll be sure to check out the discord, thank you for the link.

Your experiences mirrors my own, when I try to introduce friends and family to different headphones or music experiences, it's always the bass that gets the greater reaction. I pin it on phones and basic sound systems having no bass, when they finally get to feel it, the difference is far greater.

The information you and everyone else have given to me is amazing, I was a little apprehensive, but I am glad ended up here


----------



## baskingshark

thehipeey said:


> Thank you for all your replies, hopefully they will arrive before the weekend, and while I've never really reviewed anything, I can give my impressions as someone who's wholly new to earbuds.
> 
> Just a few questions to add;
> 
> ...



Check out this post by master @WoodyLuvr on the *various earbud shell shapes*: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3418#post-16078122

Wonder what happened to boss Woody, haven't seen him on this thread for the past few weeks, hope everything is good!



Agree with what @o0genesis0o has stated above. As for your query of earbud reviews, well, earbuds are very very niche compared to headphones and IEMs, that's why you don't find many formal reviews. Secondly, a lot of these companies do not hand out review units or market aggressively, so the earbud reviews we get are mostly from consumers who bought the earbuds with their own hard earned coin, and they do post some brief impressions on discord or here on this forum, or facebook.

As for lists of best earbuds, well there was a list previously but it was taken off as people couldn't agree on what is the best. But I think if you sound out a budget, preferred music genres and preferred sound signature (eg basshead, treblehead, midcentric etc), the community will be helpful to give you some recommendations.


----------



## samandhi

thehipeey said:


> Thank you for all your replies, hopefully they will arrive before the weekend, and while I've never really reviewed anything, I can give my impressions as someone who's wholly new to earbuds.
> 
> Just a few questions to add;
> 
> ...


Some good advice coming from our regulars. In the meantime, there is a fantastic "all in one" area that has all that you might want to know, from different types of shells to different foams/tips, to "god tier" lists (now defunct, but great nonetheless), to a (almost) complete list of buds, and their sound signature lists. You can find it at Woodyluvr's Flathead Corner


----------



## samandhi

samandhi said:


> Some good advice coming from our regulars. In the meantime, there is a fantastic "all in one" area that has all that you might want to know, from different types of shells to different foams/tips, to "god tier" lists (now defunct, but great nonetheless), to a (almost) complete list of buds, and their sound signature lists. You can find it at Woodyluvr's Flathead Corner


Actually I was wrong. @baskingshark's rec of a @WoodyLuvr post has the details you need for shell types and tip types.. The rest is on Woodyluvr's Flathead Corner. Also as mentioned (the link can be found on the Flathead Corner) the Discord server is where @ WoodyLuvr spends most of his time chatting with other connoisseurs of earbuds (he is a co-founder of the server).  

We all miss him here, but also understand. As for me, I am not a huge fan of Discord unless it is one on one, so I don't often visit there.


----------



## 0b0d0

> Wonder what happened to boss Woody, haven't seen him on this thread for the past few weeks, hope everything is good!


Don't really know the man (and hope he's all right) but i'm pretty sure you can have a guess reading his last few messages on this thread.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Dec 15, 2022)

Say hello to my lil friend!






Just wanted to introduce you guys to my new DIY buds. I'm not quite done tweakin' and tunin' yet, but after learning a few things over my last couple builds I decided I wanted to take another whack at the 130ohm bery drivers this time using an MX500 style shell that's chopped and has mmcx connectors on them. So far I think these drivers are actually working better than they did in the NSC Audio copper shells I used them in for my second build. These buds have some potential to be sure!

Edit: Cable is a simple 8 core OCC copper in 3.5mm with MMCX connectors done by your's truly, BTW.


----------



## samandhi

JAnonymous5150 said:


> Say hello to my lil friend!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seriously, I was going to ask where you bought those until I scrolled down and saw that they were DIY. They look very professional! Very much like the looks of those.


----------



## samandhi

fooltoque said:


> Wow, those do look really nice. *Style wise, I would rock those all day.*


I was thinking the exact same thing. Looking at their FB page, it looks like they have quite a few that look very nice (aesthetically). How they sound could be a different story, as I had not heard of them before tonight with @ttorbic's post. I have to admit, I am intrigued at this point.


----------



## JAnonymous5150

samandhi said:


> Seriously, I was going to ask where you bought those until I scrolled down and saw that they were DIY. They look very professional! Very much like the looks of those.



The shells are premade. I can look up the link if you're interested, but I did the driver work and braided and terminated the cable myself, bro. It's actually really fun to do your own cables, learning all the different braids, being able to customize everything exactly how you want it, etc and I got the hang of how to braid things cleanly and tight enough to hold it's structure, but not so tight that it becomes stiff and prone to picking up twists.


----------



## Ronion

Gifting said:


> That's good to know! I measured these without foams. I think I have thinner foams somewhere....the mids and treble sounds better! Weird, I didn't get this effect with donut foams. Unfortunately the bass isn't as impactful anymore...
> Maybe I should put two medium density horseshoes (for shell and driver), along with the thinner foams I currently have on...
> I will fill the port with paper and try the tape mod first though (to be used with normal foams).
> 
> ...


That is the problem with thinner foams unfortunately.  One sure way to reduce the bass level is to reshell them without the rivet.  That driver can do anything you want it to do.  The FEEAAL(sp?) tune it dark, Blur tunes it a bit bright, and I tune it somewhere in the middle of that to something that sounds neutral to me.  You can also see how the Blur Warms as the foams soften up from use.  The Megatron has less "air" in its measured performance.    The FEAEAEAEAEL tuning basically has no pinna gain.





JAnonymous5150 said:


> Let me add to the great explanation that @baskingshark gave you, that sometimes the changes that these impedance adapters introduce can be desirable and there is actually a considerable history of IEM manufacturers, most notably Etymotic, using various resistors to shape the sound and or mitigate certain shortcomings of their IEMs. I have played around with the adapters I have and on some IEMs they make little to no difference, some change for the worse, and some actually change for the better.


I tell this to people about Etymotic and they think it's a myth....  FWIW, the HD598 is one of the most affected Headphones.  You can see how it measured on my ears vs. various meths of my Home Theater Calibration in these graphs:









o0genesis0o said:


> Nah, mate, you are good. I sat down, read the whole thing, and learned a lot from it. Looking at the articles from Jason from Schiit, it’s apparent that there are a lot of things to measure and a lot of ways to doctor the results without outright lying.


#FACT


thehipeey said:


> Your experiences mirrors my own, when I try to introduce friends and family to different headphones or music experiences, it's always the bass that gets the greater reaction. I pin it on phones and basic sound systems having no bass, when they finally get to feel it, the difference is far greater.
> 
> The information you and everyone else have given to me is amazing, I was a little apprehensive, but I am glad ended up here


Some buds can handle bass quite well and get you into the real Sub Bass realm.  You may have to make your own or pay someone $100+ to solder them up if you want to hear them unfortunely.




Okay, do I win the award for most headphones graphed in a post now?


----------



## emusic13

With my point discount, decisions, decisions...$79 ff5 vs $54 ff3


----------



## Ronion

emusic13 said:


> With my point discount, decisions, decisions...$79 ff5 vs $54 ff3


If I had that, I'd order the ff5 straight away.  Of course I have the ff3 already so don't listen to me.


----------



## JAnonymous5150 (Dec 15, 2022)

emusic13 said:


> With my point discount, decisions, decisions...$79 ff5 vs $54 ff3



Dude, I own both and I have to say that while they're both worth their purchasing prices (especially after your points!) the FF3s are the truly special ones, IMO. They do things that I have never heard another earbud do making them truly unique and they belong in everyone's collection. The FF5s are just a good balanced bud. Nothing exceptional, nothing all that special, but still a solid pair of earbuds. With all that in mind, unless you are specifically looking for a bud like the FF5s rather than looking for the best of the two, then the FF3 is the way to go IME/IMO.

Either way, happy hunting!


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Some buds can handle bass quite well and get you into the real Sub Bass realm. You may have to make your own or pay someone $100+ to solder them up if you want to hear them unfortunely.


Totally agree! With some EQ, the Maria II are hitting true bass-head levels with 0 distortion (that I can hear)... Yincrow RW2000 can handle quite a bit also. 


Ronion said:


> Okay, do I win the award for most headphones graphed in a post now?


You are the winner! Your prize? To make us all a set of buds...   


emusic13 said:


> With my point discount, decisions, decisions...$79 ff5 vs $54 ff3


I would say that if you can get that sizeable discount on both (which doesn't look like you can), get them both for just a little more than you could get one at regular price...  From what I am reading (my FF5 STILL hasn't arrived yet) they sound different enough to complement each other, rather than compete against each other. 

If not, and since I don't know the FF5 (others can comment on this better) yet, you can't miss with the FF3. They are still tied for second (to FQL Blackhole Redux buds) on my favorites list behind the Yinman 2.0 600 tied with FQL Grand Finale buds for first place. My $.02!


----------



## ttorbic

@o0genesis0o you have a Topping G5 right? Something to keep in mind; https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/permalink/8612361275470774/


----------



## o0genesis0o

ttorbic said:


> @o0genesis0o you have a Topping G5 right? Something to keep in mind; https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/permalink/8612361275470774/


Ummm, what to keep in mind? The link just shows their homepage.


----------



## ttorbic

o0genesis0o said:


> Ummm, what to keep in mind? The link just shows their homepage.


----------



## o0genesis0o

ttorbic said:


>


Jeez that’s scary. I didn’t have that problem. But given Topping reputation, it could happen.


----------



## Gifting (Dec 16, 2022)

Ronion said:


> That is the problem with thinner foams unfortunately. One sure way to reduce the bass level is to reshell them without the rivet. That driver can do anything you want it to do. The FEEAAL(sp?) tune it dark, Blur tunes it a bit bright, and I tune it somewhere in the middle of that to something that sounds neutral to me. You can also see how the Blur Warms as the foams soften up from use. The Megatron has less "air" in its measured performance. The FEAEAEAEAEL tuning basically has no pinna gain.


I decided to partially cover the rivet hole after my last post, with tape. Sounded even better. I graphed it and compared it to my NiceHCK DIY MX500. In the graph, the NiceHCK accentuates the frequencies between 650hz and 1400hz, above the others. That area might be the reason why vocals sound so forward on the NiceHCK.......compared to the others. For now, I think I prefer the 150 BG Rivet halfway closed, these even thinner foams along with the "cold weather mod".





You're right, these drivers have a lot of flexibility. I might buy another pair for a different build.


----------



## Gifting (Dec 16, 2022)

Btw, I found these on Aliexpress. Twenty bucks for 10 pieces. According to a comment, it's used in a +$1,000 iem. I don't know if it can be adapted to a MX500 shell though. Looks like it can? I left the store a message but no response yet.








Edit: Upon further inspection, it looks like it'll have trouble fitting an MX500 shell. The back of the driver is raised. Oh well...


----------



## silverszi

Gifting said:


> Btw, I found these on Aliexpress. Twenty bucks for 10 pieces. According to a comment, it's used in a +$1,000 iem. I don't know if it can be adapted to a MX500 shell though. Looks like it can? I left the store a message but no response yet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


isn't this the apple earpods driver?


----------



## Ronion

Gifting said:


> I decided to partially cover the rivet hole after my last post, with tape. Sounded even better. I graphed it and compared it to my NiceHCK DIY MX500. In the graph, the NiceHCK accentuates the frequencies between 650hz and 1400hz, above the others. That area might be the reason why vocals sound so forward on the NiceHCK.......compared to the others. For now, I think I prefer the 150 BG Rivet halfway closed, these even thinner foams along with the "cold weather mod".
> 
> 
> 
> You're right, these drivers have a lot of flexibility. I might buy another pair for a different build.


Your results look like mine for such things even though I've never done this exact same thing. I've only done this in extreme form, but this is how it should work.  Acoustics remain the same.  . It's great to see someone tune in this manner.  Good on you!  Round of applause please.  You'll never need to buy an expensive pair of buds again.  Unfortunately you may end up with more pairs than you can count like me tuned to whatever makes your heart content.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

Gifting said:


> I don't know if it can be adapted to a MX500 shell


you can buy a special rings-adapter on aliexpress


----------



## prakasitp

mt877 said:


> Wow, are these supposed to be TOTL buds? Amazon US is showing they cost $235.00.
> Amazon link


The price in Amazon US for this model is quite high compare to Korea price and Thailand price (where I got it) retail price should be around 150-190 usd.


----------



## prakasitp

JAnonymous5150 said:


> I've was also thinking about giving these a try, but I ran out of time to get them before I leave to go on tour. If you end up getting a pair you have to let me know how they are, okay?


Just got the buds today. i will have it a try and share my impressions in couple days.


----------



## fooltoque

I'm going to check out the Portable Audio Festival in Tokyo today. I doubt it, but maybe there will be some flatheads that I haven't tried. Here's hoping!


----------



## baskingshark (Dec 16, 2022)

fooltoque said:


> I'm going to check out the Portable Audio Festival in Tokyo today. I doubt it, but maybe there will be some flatheads that I haven't tried. Here's hoping!



Have fun. But importantly, be careful for your wallet!


----------



## fooltoque (Dec 16, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> Have fun. But importantly, be careful for your wallet!



Thanks for the warning! Gotta keep our good friend Yukichi safe!


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 16, 2022)

Soundpeats Air 3 are surprisingly good for the price. Seems to have really good drivers  if you use the built in EQ and a bit of foam and other tuning.

They are good enough as stock with EQ but much better with the foams and some tuning to compensate for the use if foams.

Plus they are wireless which is a hell of a convienience for this form factor. Also the fact that the dac is internal to the earphones means the EQ carries across all devices which is a huge quality of life benefit.


----------



## chinmie

seanc6441 said:


> Soundpeats Air 3 are surprisingly good for the price. Seems to have really good drivers  if you use the built in EQ and a bit of foam and other tuning.
> 
> They are good enough as stock with EQ but much better with the foams and some tuning to compensate for the use if foams.
> 
> Plus they are wireless which is a hell of a convienience for this form factor. Also the fact that the dac is internal to the earphones means the EQ carries across all devices which is a huge quality of life benefit.



Hey Sean, long time no see 😁
I also have the Air 3 and it's my most used earbuds at the moment. The sound is surprisingly good and have bass that's enjoyable for movies too.


----------



## Tzennn

Hey, first time here! Have anyone try these ?


----------



## Gifting

silverszi said:


> isn't this the apple earpods driver?


It sure looks like it! Hopefully they’re not. If they are, I feel sorry for those people paying for that expensive iem. Here’s a picture of that supposed driver through the iem. 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fen...views-discussions-thread.606471/post-13657137



Ronion said:


> You'll never need to buy an expensive pair of buds again.  Unfortunately you may end up with more pairs than you can count like me tuned to whatever makes your heart content.


I got a 64 Ohm Ti composite on the way. I’ve also been eyeing a 120 ohm Bery. You might be right about getting even more pairs, modding is quite entertaining!  


Mr.HiAudio said:


> you can buy a special rings-adapter on aliexpress


👀. Okay. I’ll look into that!


----------



## jogawag

Tzennn said:


> Hey, first time here! Have anyone try these ?


I have not tried this 2022 version of Vido, but I see that two reviewers on this page (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004362772289.html) say that the previous Vido is better than this 2022 version.


----------



## Ronion (Dec 17, 2022)

Gifting said:


> It sure looks like it! Hopefully they’re not. If they are, I feel sorry for those people paying for that expensive iem. Here’s a picture of that supposed driver through the iem.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fen...views-discussions-thread.606471/post-13657137
> 
> 
> ...


If you want incredible bass, buy this.  Make sure get get the 300 Ohm one for the best sound quality.  If you are more concerned with detail, resolution, soundstage and composure, this is the one to get.  You can turn those into something better than you can buy or at least as good as anything you can buy and it doesn’t require belief, lots of money or magic.  Just sound(no pun) reason is all that’s required.  DIY is the easiest and cheapest way to get off the hype train.  There are cheaper drivers that still sound good, but those are the best at what they do uniquely and cost as little as bargain buds.  Graph, use your ear, and adjust as you hear necessary.  You can tune any driver to do just about anything you want.  They all have limitations, but you can tune any of them bright to dark or anywhere in between.   Buy a selection of horseshoe foams, white tuning foams, and foam socks of various densities.  You don’t even need to get too fancy with rivets and such.  You can, but just learn the basics of tuning with those supplies and don’t buy clear shells if sound quality is your primary goal.  They’re not well designed and their consistency is lousy.  They are a waste of money.  The material causes treble resonances and a reduced bass capability.   They look cool and they’re the cheapest MX500 shells you can buy, but beauty is only skin deep.

edit: adapters


----------



## fooltoque (Dec 17, 2022)

Portable audio fest was pretty fun. There was exactly 1 flathead there, and it was the ff5. I enjoyed trying out high end headphones though. My favorites were hifiman arya and meze 109 pro. The aria I had a really hard time deciding to put down.

I tried a couple really high end as well. Staxx sr-x9000 electrostatic and hifiman susvara. Despite being incredibly detailed, both of them hurt my ears on the high end.

Afterwards I went back to e-earphones sand found a new flathead in, Nobunaga Lab's Uguisu. I really like the tuning on that bud. It felt so comfortable. The fit was great too. It's not that expensive either, about 7500yen ($50 USD). I didn't buy it but I'll think about it while I listen to my ff5 when it comes in.


----------



## jogawag (Dec 17, 2022)

fooltoque said:


> Portable audio fest was pretty fun. There was exactly 1 flathead there, and it was the ff5. I enjoyed trying out high end headphones though. My favorites were hifiman arya and meze 109 pro. The aria I had a really hard time deciding to put down.
> 
> I tried a couple really high end as well. Staxx sr-x9000 electrostatic and hifiman susvara. Despite being incredibly detailed, both of them hurt my ears on the high end.
> 
> Afterwards I went back to e-earphones sand found a new flathead in, Nobunaga Lab's Uguisu. I really like the tuning on that bud. It felt so comfortable. The fit was great too. It's not that expensive either, about 7500yen ($50 USD). I didn't buy it but I'll think about it while I listen to my ff5 when it comes in.


I am interested in Nobunaga Lab's Uguisu.
What did it sound like?
And did it have enough bass?


----------



## samandhi (Dec 17, 2022)

fooltoque said:


> Portable audio fest was pretty fun. There was exactly 1 flathead there, and it was the ff5. I enjoyed trying out high end headphones though. My favorites were hifiman arya and meze 109 pro. The aria I had a really hard time deciding to put down.
> 
> I tried a couple really high end as well. Staxx sr-x9000 electrostatic and hifiman susvara. Despite being incredibly detailed, both of them hurt my ears on the high end.
> 
> Afterwards I went back to e-earphones sand found a new flathead in, Nobunaga Lab's Uguisu. I really like the tuning on that bud. It felt so comfortable. The fit was great too. It's not that expensive either, about 7500yen ($50 USD). I didn't buy it but I'll think about it while I listen to my ff5 when it comes in.


You know? I find that some of the "flagship" head gear isn't normally to my liking as much as some of those companies' lesser offerings. Case in point the Hifimans. I actually like the HE400S (not the newer SE) and Deva better than the Arya (among some of the others); though I have yet to hear the Edition X to compare. The same was true in 2012. I liked the HD700 better than the HD800. Also I preferred the Elegia from Focal (one of their lowest priced "high-end" phones). Don't get me wrong though, I would still love to try Hifman's Shrangri-La just to see what their TOTL offering sounds like.

Having said that I wonder if it is going to be the same with the FiiO buds. I really love the FF3 and wonder if their "higher end" buds will not be as much to my liking?! I guess the good news for me with this theme is that I end up saving money in the long run... 

Sounds like you had a good time though?! One of these days I need to make it to one of the Can-Jams, or at least to a boutique where I can listen to stuff normally reserved to "blind" buying otherwise.


----------



## fooltoque

jogawag said:


> I am interested in Nobunaga Lab's Uguisu.
> What did it sound like?
> And did it have enough bass?


Well I only had about 10 minutes with it in a noisy environment, but to me it had the perfect amount of bass. For reference I lean towards basshead, but rikubuds berserkers 1 are just a bit too base heavy for me. Tuning wise I loved the Uguisu. It felt great listening to it after listening to a whole bunch of other headphones. Like I could finally relax. 

Detail wise I thought it was not bad, but it was a noisy environment and I would like to listen a lot longer before I really reviewed it.


----------



## jogawag (Dec 17, 2022)

fooltoque said:


> Well I only had about 10 minutes with it in a noisy environment, but to me it had the perfect amount of bass. For reference I lean towards basshead, but rikubuds berserkers 1 are just a bit too base heavy for me. Tuning wise I loved the Uguisu. It felt great listening to it after listening to a whole bunch of other headphones. Like I could finally relax.
> 
> Detail wise I thought it was not bad, but it was a noisy environment and I would like to listen a lot longer before I really reviewed it.


Thank you for detailed reply.
And how does the bass sound compared to FF3/FF5?


----------



## fooltoque (Dec 17, 2022)

jogawag said:


> Thank you for detailed reply.
> And how does the bass sound compared to FF3/FF5?



In my memory, it was pretty similar to FF3 as far as (amount of) bass goes. Which puts them more bassy than FF5, which admittedly I also only listened to for about 10 minutes so far. 

I feel like I'm going to eventually buy them, although I'll probably listen to them a few time more first. Great deal for the price.


----------



## fooltoque (Dec 17, 2022)

samandhi said:


> You know? I find that some of the "flagship" head gear isn't normally to my liking as much as some of those companies' lesser offerings. Case in point the Hifimans. I actually like the HE400S (not the newer SE) and Deva better than the Arya (among some of the others); though I have yet to hear the Edition X to compare. The same was true in 2012. I liked the HD700 better than the HD800. Also I preferred the Elegia from Focal (one of their lowest priced "high-end" phones). Don't get me wrong though, I would still love to try Hifman's Shrangri-La just to see what their TOTL offering sounds like.


Yeah I know what you mean. I loved the detail in the Susvara. They sounded amazing. But they still hurt my ears. Arya was perfect for me. I should have listened to the Edition XS at the same time, but my ears were getting a bit tired. I have listened to the XS before and I do like them, but so far the Arya is my pick of the lineup. For the record I prefer the HD650 to the HD660s xD


samandhi said:


> Having said that I wonder if it is going to be the same with the FiiO buds. I really love the FF3 and wonder if their "higher end" buds will not be as much to my liking?! I guess the good news for me with this theme is that I end up saving money in the long run...


That would be the perfect situation, if the cheap ones are your favorite 


samandhi said:


> Sounds like you had a good time though?! One of these days I need to make it to one of the Can-Jams, or at least to a boutique where I can listen to stuff normally reserved to "blind" buying otherwise.


I feel so lucky to live so close to e-earphones. I recently watched a video where Crinacle went there and totally geeked out over how many iem's he could try. I do wish they had more flatheads, but at least I was able to try several that I otherwise would not be able to.


----------



## fooltoque (Dec 17, 2022)

While there was only 1 true flathead at Potafes, there were several TWS airpod style 'open' buds that I tried as well.

Defunc True Talk / True Plus: Both the true talk and true plus had a similar sound. I think they have the same drivers, but the True Talk is more expensive for it's noise cancelling mic technology. The fit on these was fantastic. They lodge comfortably in the ear and don't move ever. For this reason alone I really wanted to like them, but unfortunately the bass is really bloated, and pretty much overrides everything else.

JBL Tune Flex (in 'open' mode): They have 2 tip types that you can put on, to make them either airpods style or airpods pro style. I tried them in airpods style and they sounded really thin. Nothing interesting here.

Nothing Ear Stick: Nice case, bad sound.


----------



## fooltoque (Dec 17, 2022)

fooltoque said:


> Well I only had about 10 minutes with it in a noisy environment, but to me it had the perfect amount of bass. For reference I lean towards basshead, but rikubuds berserkers 1 are just a bit too base heavy for me. Tuning wise I loved the Uguisu. It felt great listening to it after listening to a whole bunch of other headphones. Like I could finally relax.
> 
> Detail wise I thought it was not bad, but it was a noisy environment and I would like to listen a lot longer before I really reviewed it.


Oh one thing extra. If I do buy them, I'm definitely going to get new cables for them. The cables are just standard black tubes like the ones that came with your Sony Walkman 30 years ago. But they are MMCX, so switcheroo!

4 posts in a row for me. That is too much sorry! That's what you all get for sleeping.


----------



## jogawag (Dec 17, 2022)

fooltoque said:


> Oh one thing extra. If I do buy them, I'm definitely going to get new cables for them. The cables are just standard black tubes like the ones that came with your Sony Walkman 30 years ago. But they are MMCX, so switcheroo!
> 
> 4 posts in a row for me. That is too much sorry! That's what you all get for sleeping.


Was there something wrong with the mmcx OFC cable that came with Uguisu?


----------



## samandhi (Dec 17, 2022)

Well, I (finally) got my FF5 in today. Although it DID come before the "expected" date, that is just too long for normal delivery, and I normally get stuff much quicker than 1 month or so (except during COVID crisis). Having said that, I will offer my first impressions on these.

I really love the build of these (massively comfortable and agree that they fit much like the FF3 but lighter), and the cable, while stiff like others have mentioned, is not TOO stiff. I really am liking it. It is stiff but doesn't have a memory like most "stiff" cables (ala FF3). I WAS planning on changing out the cable first thing, but I believe they have matched this one very nicely for the earpieces. I will still do some cable rolling to see if it affects the sound adversely or positively down the road though.

Keep in mind, I have only had something like a half hour with these thus far, and I am listening with different gear than I normally do when starting a "listening session" with new head gear. It is the DX300 with the Amp13 Korg Nutube installed (no SS here baby).... 

I put them into my ears with no foams or silicone rings at all, and turned the volume way down, in anticipation of the "female poison". I want to say that I really think that FiiO misrepresented themselves here with their description on these. Who knows, maybe it is our interpretation that misled us rather than the actual description?! They are NOT boosted in the ear gain region enough to be called boosted. Even if my ears COULDN'T actually hear the sonic difference, that area becomes painful to me when it IS boosted (as most of you already know); that and the fact that I mostly listen to music that has loads of things in that area, I think that qualifies me as a bit of an expert where (boosted) ear gain is concerned....  

I was also expecting for them to be super low in quantity of bass simply because of the (again) FiiO description, and the complete openness of the design (3/4 of the back is cutout + a vent in both sides of the stems). If you also thought this, you would also be wrong (as I was too). There is a LOT of bass but it is contained mostly in the mid bass and especially the upper bass, actually making these warm. But I don't find the bass to intrude too deeply into the mids. The sub bass IS there, but it is a victim of the diffuse venting, where there is a very weak impact to it. Listening to this (test) song doesn't give the same toe tapping visceral bass experience as it does on the FF3 or Yinmans (it just doesn't dig too deep):



Spoiler






 It sounds like a mere mortal of a song as opposed to the GOD that it normally sounds like in better head gear.

Having said that, the mids are nice and clear and smooth. Done very well! What more can I say? They aren't thin, but also aren't too thick because of the upper bass mentioned before. I wouldn't call them as forward as the FiiO description. I would put them on plain with the treble IMO.

The upper mids and the whole treble region are tuned MUCH better to my ears than what we have on the FF3. It isn't like the FF3 are bad, but I think the FF5 are just more linear, and don't use the (boosted) ear gain to give the illusion of treble. There actually is some treble here that gives cymbals shimmer, and adds the second harmonic to snaps on snares, and etc...

Having said all of that, there are some bad things about this set (and maybe this is what is making them sound just meh to @JAnonymous5150 and possibly others too). IMO, I think the tuning is darn near perfect on these and the driver is a VERY good one, but the (too) open design cripples them a bit. Because of the diffuse nature the bass, while full and textured nicely, is pretty weak in its impact when it isn't the star of the show. The upper bass is just a bit strong compared to the rest of the bass (it isn't very linear like I normally like). Separation is not great on these at all. If you play music that is not busy, they are crystal clear and seem to have great impact, but if you have something fairly busy the congestion is evident.

It almost feels like when the song isn't busy, everything is strong and clear. On a busy track it feels like the volume is decreased because of the increased voltage swing like if you hooked 2 sets of loudspeakers into channel A from a home system. This is obviously not true, and I suspect it actually is due to more pressure escaping the huge amounts of openings available, but it is my analogy and I'll tell it how I want.... 

These have a decent soundstage, but again the separation hampers the ability of them to sound bigger; to me it is a combination of separation, imaging, panning, dynamic range, etc... that make head gear have a large sounding soundstage. As mentioned earlier, when you have a song that is not busy the soundstage DOES seem massive but put any busy track on that it shrinks down closer to your ears and the whole sound pulls back into the distance a bit (to my ears).

That's it for now and will share more as I put more time on them... Overall I would say that these ARE great (not fantastic like the FF3 though). and are worth the cost, if only JUST.. I would like to see them closer to the price of the FF3 (or even a bit less) because these aren't an upgrade per se'; more of a side grade; other than the ability to change the cable, but I don't consider that to be worth $20 or whatever it comes out to be.

Peace Head-Fi family!


----------



## mt877 (Dec 17, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Well, I (finally) got my FF5 in today. Although it DID come before the "expected" date, that is just too long for normal delivery, and I normally get stuff much quicker than 1 month or so (except during COVID crisis). Having said that, I will offer my first impressions on these.
> 
> I really love the build of these (massively comfortable and agree that they fit much like the FF3 but lighter), and the cable, while stiff like others have mentioned, is not TOO stiff. I really am liking it. It is stiff but doesn't have a memory like most "stiff" cables (ala FF3). I WAS planning on changing out the cable first thing, but I believe they have matched this one very nicely for the earpieces. I will still do some cable rolling to see if it affects the sound adversely or positively down the road though.
> 
> ...



Nice initial impressions. My FF5 arrived today as well. Right now I'm into about 10 minutes of listening to them. I did a few experiments. Put on the balanced foams, 3.5mm SE plug and Sony ZX507. On the ZX507 I can switch normal / high gain. I found on high gain the midrange is very enhanced, switching to low gain sounded much better to me. Then I changed the plug to 4.4mm balanced and plugged into the ZX507 4.4mm jack (set to normal gain). I'm really liking what I'm hearing out of the 4.4mm jack.

One thing I found is fit is important. If I don't have the right fit the bass really falls off, but when I set the cables so there is no twist and the buds are facing my ears correctly the sound really changes. Bass increases, which has the effect of balancing the midrange. Anyway that's my first impressions.


----------



## mt877

prakasitp said:


> The price in Amazon US for this model is quite high compare to Korea price and Thailand price (where I got it) retail price should be around 150-190 usd.


Wow, interesting that the price is higher on Amazon US. I've done some reading about Ucotech and it seems they're into making some quality buds and IEM. So after you've had more time to listen to them, please share your impressions here.


----------



## samandhi (Dec 17, 2022)

mt877 said:


> Nice initial impressions. My FF5 arrived today as well. Right now I'm into about 10 minutes of listening to them. I did a few experiments. Put on the balanced foams, 3.5mm SE plug and Sony ZX507. On the ZX507 I can switch normal / high gain. I found on high gain the midrange is very enhanced, switching to low gain sounded much better to me. Then I changed the plug to 4.4mm balanced and plugged into the ZX507 4.4mm jack (set to normal gain). I'm really liking what I'm hearing out of the 4.4mm jack.
> 
> One thing I found is fit is important. If I don't have the right fit the bass really falls off, but when I set the cables so there is no twist and the buds are facing my ears correctly the sound really changes. Bass increases, which has the effect of balancing the midrange. Anyway that's my first impressions.


Thanks bro!  Congrats on your new shiny!

I suppose I forgot to mention that the Nutube amp card is 3.5mm only, so I have yet to test them with 4.4mm. Who knows it might change things totally?! As of now though, I really do like the sound of them (for the most part).... I am currently using the silicone tips now (rather than naked), and don't find TOO much difference in sound (it is still good).

I can't wait to try the foams because there is quite a bit of bass without anything (except in parts that I mentioned in my impressions). Do you find the upper bass to be a bit boosted over the rest of the bass presentation (with the foams on)?

Edit: I haven't even gotten to the experimentation phase with gain and other amp cards (different sound signatures), and etc... yet, so I am looking forward to doing all those things; as well as cable and tip rolling... I DO think they are going to be keepers though.


----------



## mt877

feverfive said:


> My FF5 were delivered today, and since I am working from home, have had the chance to fiddle with those rings and my favored ear foams (from Venture Electronics; mostly because I can use red for right and blue for left, LOL---why do earbud makers insist on making it so hard to determine at a glance which is right & left? hahaha).
> 
> I need to spend time with these.  I am also a relative neophyte when it comes to buds.  I will say as an initial impression: pretty impressed by the quality for money spent, and these make me want to say screw it and take a dive into TGXear buds, even though I am loathe to buy transducers requiring desktop-level amping (I am 100% portable, have been for over a decade, and have zero interest in being tied to a stationary rig).


FiiO could have painted in the engraved L and R on the buds to make it easier to tell left from right. I like the color of the FF5, nice midnight blue. Maybe painting in the letters would cheapen the look of the buds?


----------



## drewbadour

prakasitp said:


> The price in Amazon US for this model is quite high compare to Korea price and Thailand price (where I got it) retail price should be around 150-190 usd.


Looking forward to your impressions too!

Have you tried others by ucotech?


----------



## gylyf

samandhi said:


> Thanks bro!  Congrats on your new shiny!
> 
> I suppose I forgot to mention that the Nutube amp card is 3.5mm only, so I have yet to test them with 4.4mm. Who knows it might change things totally?! As of now though, I really do like the sound of them (for the most part).... I am currently using the silicone tips now (rather than naked), and don't find TOO much difference in sound (it is still good).
> 
> ...


I started listening to these through the low-noise out of my Amp13 and was pretty underwhelmed. Your impressions were very similar to mine. They sound better to me out of the high-noise out of the Amp13 and even better still balanced out of the Amp11 and my Gryphon. While low impedance, I do think these scale pretty nicely and do benefit from some power. I’ll be curious to try them with the Amp14 card.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> FiiO could have painted in the engraved L and R on the buds to make it easier to tell left from right. I like the color of the FF5, nice midnight blue. Maybe painting in the letters would cheapen the look of the buds?


With buds such as these (especially the ones with stiff cables). I will normally put the Y splitter branding/labeling out (which puts them in the correct ears as long as you straighten them out before inserting them). Otherwise You COULD color the letters. If you don't want it to look TOO tacky, you could take a crayon and fill it in (it wouldn't be too bright/noticeable), then wipe away the access. This may not stay though through any sort of moisture. 

Or you could take the MMXC connector apart and color the horizontal part. When you put them back together it will be subtle, and instead of gold, you would see red (or whatever color you chose to use).


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Thanks bro!  Congrats on your new shiny!
> 
> I suppose I forgot to mention that the Nutube amp card is 3.5mm only, so I have yet to test them with 4.4mm. Who knows it might change things totally?! As of now though, I really do like the sound of them (for the most part).... I am currently using the silicone tips now (rather than naked), and don't find TOO much difference in sound (it is still good).
> 
> ...


Thanks, congrats on your new shiny too!

I wouldn't say the upper bass is boosted over the rest of the bass presentation. There's appears to be just enough overall bass presentation so the sound isn't boring. The midrange is enhanced due to the tuning, but like you alluded, not ice picks by a far margin. Start with the balanced foams (middle of the road) and see how you like them.


----------



## samandhi

gylyf said:


> I started listening to these through the low-noise out of my Amp13 and was pretty underwhelmed. Your impressions were very similar to mine. They sound better to me out of the high-noise out of the Amp13 and even better still balanced out of the Amp11 and my Gryphon. While low impedance, I do think these scale pretty nicely and do benefit from some power. I’ll be curious to try them with the Amp14 card.


Oh Awesome! I consider that good news because there is quite a few of my head gear that doesn't sound that great from the Amp13 (though there is some that sound heavenly too). If they do indeed scale well, I wonder how good they might sound from the Amp12 (other than it being pretty analytical and decidedly SS)?! That might take it in the wrong direction..   

If that is the case there IS always amp 11 to fall back on. It is a great all-rounder IMO. And I also can't wait to have a balanced version of Amp13, in the Amp14. Here's to hoping the kept with the signature pretty closely?! 

What foams do you use on yours? And are you using the stock cable? I am eventually going to put a pure copper cable (and pure silver of course) and see what happens.


----------



## mt877

gylyf said:


> I started listening to these through the low-noise out of my Amp13 and was pretty underwhelmed. Your impressions were very similar to mine. They sound better to me out of the high-noise out of the Amp13 and even better still balanced out of the Amp11 and my Gryphon. While low impedance, I do think these scale pretty nicely and do benefit from some power. I’ll be curious to try them with the Amp14 card.


Just a side comment about sources. For the Sony ZX507, Sony recommends burn in of 200 hours on each port for the best sound. I use the 4.4mm out far more than the 3.5mm out, so that could be a reason I'm getting a better presentation from the 4.4mm out of the ZX507.


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> With buds such as these (especially the ones with stiff cables). I will normally put the Y splitter branding/labeling out (which puts them in the correct ears as long as you straighten them out before inserting them). Otherwise You COULD color the letters. If you don't want it to look TOO tacky, you could take a crayon and fill it in (it wouldn't be too bright/noticeable), then wipe away the access. This may not stay though through any sort of moisture.
> 
> Or you could take the MMXC connector apart and color the horizontal part. When you put them back together it will be subtle, and instead of gold, you would see red (or whatever color you chose to use).


I'm not messing with the lettering, don't want to mess with the aesthetics of the cool midnight blue. Yep I put the branding forward too.


----------



## gylyf

samandhi said:


> Oh Awesome! I consider that good news because there is quite a few of my head gear that doesn't sound that great from the Amp13 (though there is some that sound heavenly too). If they do indeed scale well, I wonder how good they might sound from the Amp12 (other than it being pretty analytical and decidedly SS)?! That might take it in the wrong direction..
> 
> If that is the case there IS always amp 11 to fall back on. It is a great all-rounder IMO. And I also can't wait to have a balanced version of Amp13, in the Amp14. Here's to hoping the kept with the signature pretty closely?!
> 
> What foams do you use on yours? And are you using the stock cable? I am eventually going to put a pure copper cable (and pure silver of course) and see what happens.


I don’t have the Amp12, so I can’t comment, but they sound best to me balanced out of Amp11, which is probably as analytical and SS-y as I want my amps to get. Amp14 will be interesting, though (and I definitely agree about Amp13 - it doesn’t work with everything, but it can sound heavenly with the right transducer). I’m using the balanced foams and stock cable with the FF5. I first tried them with Hiegis, but they sounded way too dark. Might even try the crisp foams at some point, since these aren’t nearly as bright as I thought they would be.


----------



## samandhi

gylyf said:


> since these aren’t nearly as bright as I thought they would be.


I was honestly shocked over this part. 


mt877 said:


> I'm not messing with the lettering, don't want to mess with the aesthetics of the cool midnight blue. Yep I put the branding forward too.


When I first read your post, I thought what the heck is he talking about. I turned on my bright overhead light, and you are totally right.. I thought they were black... Ok, I don't blame you for not wanting to change the lines/look.


----------



## ttorbic

Unrelated to Fiio FF5 conversation, but wanted to share: I just purchased a SoundPEATS mini pro HS. SoundPEATS is getting lots of positive reviews for their TWS products lately, so I thought I'd hop on the bandwagon. I have a Soundcore Liberty Air 2 Pro, which has a terrible V shaped sibilant sound signature, but its ANC is not half bad and it's convenient. 

Does anyone else have a favourite TWS?


----------



## samandhi

ttorbic said:


> Does anyone else have a favourite TWS?


Congrats on your new shiny!

Sony Linkbuds for me.


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 17, 2022)

Buds Live. Or for ANC Sony XM4.


Or any mmcx bud on my bt20s (currently has 14.8mm 32Ω ti diy bud).


----------



## samandhi (Dec 17, 2022)

OK! Thanks, guys, for the suggestion with the FF5. I skipped straight to the Amp12 (2W) and 4.4mm balanced, and balanced foams, and Oh... Em... Gee! Night and day difference. I can't say for sure because I have not had a lot of time with them, nor have any actual A/Bing, but I might just like these a bit better than the FF3. And even if not, they are super close (in likability, not in their sound signature).

So far, the congestion is not present; though I have yet to have any super busy tracks on the playlist, the impact is much more present, and the upper bass isn't the star of the show. I'm quite amazed at just HOW much different these sound from more power and SS amplification (with foams on). The sub bass isn't "there" as much as with the tube amp, but it is tighter, and doesn't fade away when called to hit. It almost seems like the tube amp couldn't drive them properly (though on paper it should be WAY more than needed).

More fun experimental testing to come... 

Edit: So far with the Amp12 card on the DX300, I would say these sound very simiar to the RW3000 without the boosted ear gain. Very very clear, and more mid bass than sub but neither "light" NOR overdone for the rest of the range. Great so far!


----------



## drewbadour

ttorbic said:


> Unrelated to Fiio FF5 conversation, but wanted to share: I just purchased a SoundPEATS mini pro HS. SoundPEATS is getting lots of positive reviews for their TWS products lately, so I thought I'd hop on the bandwagon. I have a Soundcore Liberty Air 2 Pro, which has a terrible V shaped sibilant sound signature, but its ANC is not half bad and it's convenient.
> 
> Does anyone else have a favourite TWS?


Ff5 with utws5 for me


----------



## dsonance

My FF5 arrived today as well, together with the white R4YS Plus I wanted to compare to the NSC 80Ohm LCP. The iBasso DC06 showed up yesterday. The only thing still in transit from my Cyber Monday order is the NSC.

Haven't had a chance to try listening to anything but the DC06 yet.


----------



## samandhi

dsonance said:


> My FF5 arrived today as well, together with the white R4YS Plus I wanted to compare to the NSC 80Ohm LCP. The iBasso DC06 showed up yesterday. The only thing still in transit from my Cyber Monday order is the NSC.
> 
> Haven't had a chance to try listening to anything but the DC06 yet.


Congrats on your new shiny! 

Any early impressions? I should probably have reserved mine because it wasn't nearly as favorable as it is since switching to the higher power amplifier. Now, I'll have to do it all over again... LOL  🤷‍♂️


----------



## fooltoque

jogawag said:


> Was there something wrong with the mmcx OFC cable that came with Uguisu?


I didn't check for microphonics or anything. If I have to say, I just found it boring.


----------



## samandhi

fooltoque said:


> I didn't check for microphonics or anything. If I have to say, I just found it boring.


What source was being used with them (if you don't mind me asking)?


----------



## fooltoque

samandhi said:


> What source was being used with them (if you don't mind me asking)?


It was my Radsone ES100 MK2. I had to listen to the Arya and the Meze 109 pro with that too... 

I think this means I win the competition for the last person to get their Ff5 (from those who ordered on launch). It was a really tough battle guys. On another launch, I think any one of you could have beat me out, but this time I was able to pull through and make it to the end!

I want to thank my mom and dad, also my pastryon supporters. I love you all! Thank you!


----------



## samandhi (Dec 17, 2022)

fooltoque said:


> It was my Radsone ES100 MK2. I had to listen to the Arya and the Meze 109 pro with that too...
> 
> I think this means I win the competition for the last person to get their Ff5 (from those who ordered on launch). It was a really tough battle guys. On another launch, I think any one of you could have beat me out, but this time I was able to pull through and make it to the end!
> 
> I want to thank my mom and dad, also my pastryon supporters. I love you all! Thank you!


Cool! At least you got to listen on your own terms... LOL I love when they hook stuff up to an $18,000 amp. It isn't really fair for us regular folk... 

LOL yep, looks like you won good sir! Any ETA on yours?

Edit: Your acceptance speech was WAY too long... C'mon man, other people need a chance to get their awards too.


----------



## fooltoque

samandhi said:


> Cool! At least you got to listen on your own terms... LOL I love when they hook stuff up to an $18,000 amp. It isn't really fair for us regular folk...


That's a good point. Although if I got an Arya, I would definitely get a new desktop amp for it, so I'd like to listen to it with an amp that was enough to power it properly. I can do that at e-earphones if I scrape up enough money to get serious about it.


samandhi said:


> LOL yep, looks like you won good sir! Any ETA on yours?
> 
> Edit: Your acceptance speech was WAY too long... C'mon man, other people need a chance to get their awards too.


Nope! This is my special time!

Edit: I don't have an ETA, but at least it is in the country now. I'm expecting any day.


----------



## samandhi

Dang! This song (in 24/96) really shows off the soundstage, imaging, and macro and micro dynamics; not to mention the micro and macro details, of the FF5 superbly. And I have to say I am liking this set more and more the longer I listen to them. 



Spoiler








And the reverb and dynamics in general are creepy-good on these too.


----------



## samandhi

fooltoque said:


> That's a good point. Although if I got an Arya, I would definitely get a new desktop amp for it, so I'd like to listen to it with an amp that was enough to power it properly. I can do that at e-earphones if I scrape up enough money to get serious about it.


That, also is a good point! 

I dunno' but I have always wanted a WooAudio TOTL tube amp. I always read about how special they really are. 


fooltoque said:


> I don't have an ETA, but at least it is in the country now. I'm expecting any day.


Fingers crossed bro!  

Mine didn't even show up on my post office tracking until the night before they were delivered (yesterday night), which is highly irregular for them from my experience....


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

baskingshark said:


> Have fun. But importantly, be careful for your wallet!


...because I'm a pick pocket.


----------



## mt877 (Dec 17, 2022)

fooltoque said:


> It was my Radsone ES100 MK2. I had to listen to the Arya and the Meze 109 pro with that too...
> 
> I think this means I win the competition for the last person to get their Ff5 (from those who ordered on launch). It was a really tough battle guys. On another launch, I think any one of you could have beat me out, but this time I was able to pull through and make it to the end!
> 
> I want to thank my mom and dad, also my pastryon supporters. I love you all! Thank you!


Wait, the games not over yet! We haven't heard from @o0genesis0o yet. Well at least I thought he either bought a set or he bargained with FiiO to get a set for review.


----------



## o0genesis0o

mt877 said:


> Wait, the games not over yet! We haven't heard from @o0genesis0o yet. Well at least I thought he either bought a set or he bargained with FiiO to get at set for review.



I might be the last one to get FF5 (hopefully not the last customer ever of this product line). I thought the package was ready to ship, but then it was pulled back (returned to shipper) for some reason. They (Fiio) did ask me to review FW5 and FH15, so I hope that they recall the shipment to add stuffs rather than cancelling (though I like their cheap IEM JD7 more than their flagship FD7, so they might have second thought about my ears   )


----------



## mt877

o0genesis0o said:


> I might be the last one to get FF5 (hopefully not the last customer ever of this product line). I thought the package was ready to ship, but then it was pulled back (returned to shipper) for some reason. They (Fiio) did ask me to review FW5 and FH15, so I hope that they recall the shipment to add stuffs rather than cancelling (though I like their cheap IEM JD7 more than their flagship FD7, so they might have second thought about my ears   )


If I was a manufacturer I would want an honest review, good, bad or indifferent. Providing a false positive review actually hurts the manufacturer and the reviewer. Constructive criticism is valuable and helps a manufacturer to learn how their product(s) perform and how they can make improvements. So no worries about your reviews which are very in depth and give good information to both potential purchasers and the manufacturer. Keep up the good work!


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> OK! Thanks, guys, for the suggestion with the FF5. I skipped straight to the Amp12 (2W) and 4.4mm balanced, and balanced foams, and Oh... Em... Gee! Night and day difference. I can't say for sure because I have not had a lot of time with them, nor have any actual A/Bing, but I might just like these a bit better than the FF3. And even if not, they are super close (in likability, not in their sound signature).
> 
> So far, the congestion is not present; though I have yet to have any super busy tracks on the playlist, the impact is much more present, and the upper bass isn't the star of the show. I'm quite amazed at just HOW much different these sound from more power and SS amplification (with foams on). The sub bass isn't "there" as much as with the tube amp, but it is tighter, and doesn't fade away when called to hit. It almost seems like the tube amp couldn't drive them properly (though on paper it should be WAY more than needed).
> 
> ...


Nice! Glad you found the right mix of hardware to make the FF5 shine.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Nice! Glad you found the right mix of hardware to make the FF5 shine.


Problem is that I am not sure I want to even bother changing anything at this point... LOL


----------



## fooltoque

o0genesis0o said:


> I might be the last one to get FF5 (hopefully not the last customer ever of this product line). I thought the package was ready to ship, but then it was pulled back (returned to shipper) for some reason. They (Fiio) did ask me to review FW5 and FH15, so I hope that they recall the shipment to add stuffs rather than cancelling (though I like their cheap IEM JD7 more than their flagship FD7, so they might have second thought about my ears   )


Oh no. I already popped the cork on the champagne...


----------



## o0genesis0o

fooltoque said:


> Oh no. I already popped the cork on the champagne...


Technically, Fiio prepared to ship FF5 right before the announcement, so you are still the last one ... somehow?   

Looking forward for your impressions. @samandhi impressions make me so eager. 

Btw, today, I'm testing a generic looking dongle from a generic named company called ACMEE. It drives Serratus surprisingly well, though. I don't feel the closed in presentation of dongles. I'll need careful A/B tests to figure out. This review has been taking a while, because ever since I received Shanling M6U, listening to any other sources is hassle 

ACMEE reminds me of this:


----------



## samandhi (Dec 18, 2022)

fooltoque said:


> Oh no. I already popped the cork on the champagne...


Yeah, it looks like @o0genesis0o will indeed be the last one, since yours are in country (knock on wood BTW), for some reason his were sent back.... Bummer

Accepting the award for @o0genesis0o is @fooltoque .....


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Technically, Fiio prepared to ship FF5 right before the announcement, so you are still the last one ... somehow?
> 
> Looking forward for your impressions. @samandhi impressions make me so eager.
> 
> ...


Is it a review type of test, or is it yours? 

I can't believe you posted that. I was so going to ask if it was engineered by someone named Wile E Coyte.. I LOLed when I read the name. 

Shanling products certainly do have some VERY good sound to them. Heck, even my little M0 sounds pretty amazing (for what it is).


----------



## o0genesis0o (Dec 17, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Is it a review type of test, or is it yours?
> 
> I can't believe you posted that. I was so going to ask if it was engineered by someone named Wile E Coyte.. I LOLed when I read the name.
> 
> Shanling products certainly do have some VERY good sound to them. Heck, even my little M0 sounds pretty amazing (for what it is).


The ACMEE? It's a sample sent by Penon. Due to how much negative perception "Penon reviewers" have, I need to extra careful when dealing with these. Personally, unless a dongle is Cayin RU6 or Questyle M15, I'm not buying since they can't compare with battery-powered portable amp.

Can't wait to compare FF5 with TGXear Serratus. The bass foam of Fiio does wonder to add a bit of warmth and tame the mid-treble of Serratus (most of the time). If FF5 can hang with this form of Serratus, it would automatically be my default buds recommendation (sans DIY)

Serratus sounds good with this


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> The ACMEE? It's a sample sent by Penon. Due to how much negative perception "Penon reviewers" have, I need to extra careful when dealing with these. Personally, unless a dongle is Cayin RU6 or Questyle M15, I'm not buying since they can't compare with battery-powered portable amp.
> 
> Can't wait to compare FF5 with TGXear Serratus. The bass foam of Fiio does wonder to add a bit of warmth and tame the mid-treble of Serratus (most of the time). If FF5 can hang with this form of Serratus, it would automatically be my default buds recommendation (sans DIY)
> 
> Serratus sounds good with this



Oh, gotcha... I would be interested to see your review on this as well.. 

I will eagerly await your comparison of the two to see who comes out the victor in your mind.

WOW! Beautiful voice. Even the Youtube video sounded pretty good (I couldn't find it on Amazon Music). I have bookmarked that one for later, and to hear more from them. It sounds fantastic on the FF5. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## samandhi

I have been wanting to share this with my family here in the earbuds thread for a while now, but when everyone else was sharing their talents (and there is some great talent out there), I was a bit embarrassed because I am not sure I would consider this talent per se'. I HAVE shared this with a couple of you though:

I said at some point, I used to sing in a band. I might have also mentioned that I have gone about 20-25 years or more without much practice, other than in the car or shower, or when drinking (karaoke with the wife). What I hadn't mentioned is that I put together a demo (quite a few actually) of sorts for personal use, just to see if I could still sing at all (think Vince Neil then & now LOL). I am not interested at this point in getting back into it (not that I could to begin with, I smoke about 1 1/2 packs a day so no stamina to begin with haha), but you probably know what I mean. I will share it with you if for nothing more than a good laugh (it IS pretty obvious that I have lost more than a few steps to the ravages of time, but I had fun doing it anyhow; it brought back good memories and DID get the juices flowing a bit again). 

And fyuck Auto-Tune!   

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11DmgrQ7wnv9PKlIih9rGKHMsu6sHDoOx/view?usp=sharing


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> I have been wanting to share this with my family here in the earbuds thread for a while now, but when everyone else was sharing their talents (and there is some great talent out there), I was a bit embarrassed because I am not sure I would consider this talent per se'. I HAVE shared this with a couple of you though:
> 
> I said at some point, I used to sing in a band. I might have also mentioned that I have gone about 20-25 years or more without much practice, other than in the car or shower, or when drinking (karaoke with the wife). What I hadn't mentioned is that I put together a demo (quite a few actually) of sorts for personal use, just to see if I could still sing at all (think Vince Neil then & now LOL). I am not interested at this point in getting back into it (not that I could to begin with, I smoke about 1 1/2 packs a day so no stamina to begin with haha), but you probably know what I mean. I will share it with you if for nothing more than a good laugh (it IS pretty obvious that I have lost more than a few steps to the ravages of time, but I had fun doing it anyhow; it brought back good memories and DID get the juices flowing a bit again).
> 
> ...


Bro, that was excellent! Thanks for sharing.


----------



## mt877 (Dec 18, 2022)

I didn't mention that I bought a set of FF5 for my wife. She likes listening to music or watching YTube vids at her MacBook with Senn HD 569's. She also has her Airpod Pro's. So when I broke out the FF5's and asked her to give a listen she said the sound was great, like listening with over ear headphones. I just smiled and said I got that set for her. She was very happy.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Bro, that was excellent! Thanks for sharing.


You are very kind. Thank you!


mt877 said:


> I didn't mention that I bought a set of FF5 for my wife. She likes listening to music or watching YTube vids at her MacBook with Senn HD 569's. She also has her Airpod Pro's. So when I broke out the FF5's and asked her to give a listen she said the sound was great, like listening with over ear headphones. I just smiled and said I got that set for her. She was very happy.


No, you didn't mention that. That is a fantastic "for no reason" gift, I would say. I think they might sound better than the 569's... LOL 

Tell her, Congrats on HER new shiny!


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> I have been wanting to share this with my family here in the earbuds thread for a while now, but when everyone else was sharing their talents (and there is some great talent out there), I was a bit embarrassed because I am not sure I would consider this talent per se'. I HAVE shared this with a couple of you though:
> 
> I said at some point, I used to sing in a band. I might have also mentioned that I have gone about 20-25 years or more without much practice, other than in the car or shower, or when drinking (karaoke with the wife). What I hadn't mentioned is that I put together a demo (quite a few actually) of sorts for personal use, just to see if I could still sing at all (think Vince Neil then & now LOL). I am not interested at this point in getting back into it (not that I could to begin with, I smoke about 1 1/2 packs a day so no stamina to begin with haha), but you probably know what I mean. I will share it with you if for nothing more than a good laugh (it IS pretty obvious that I have lost more than a few steps to the ravages of time, but I had fun doing it anyhow; it brought back good memories and DID get the juices flowing a bit again).
> 
> ...


Awesome Brother!  I had no idea.  This was one of my favorites back in the day.


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> You are very kind. Thank you!
> 
> No, you didn't mention that. That is a fantastic "for no reason" gift, I would say. I think they might sound better than the 569's... LOL
> 
> Tell her, Congrats on HER new shiny!


The great thing is I don't have to sleep outside with the dog... Ok, I don't have a dog, but you know what I mean.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Awesome Brother!  I had no idea.  This was one of my favorites back in the day.


Thank you brother! It was one of my favs also... 


mt877 said:


> The great thing is I don't have to sleep outside with the dog... Ok, I don't have a dog, but you know what I mean.


You probably should have banked this one for when you really DID need it. Matter of fact, it should count for two or more...


----------



## samandhi

@Ronion did you order the FF5?


----------



## dsonance

samandhi said:


> I have been wanting to share this with my family here in the earbuds thread for a while now, but when everyone else was sharing their talents (and there is some great talent out there), I was a bit embarrassed because I am not sure I would consider this talent per se'. I HAVE shared this with a couple of you though:
> 
> I said at some point, I used to sing in a band. I might have also mentioned that I have gone about 20-25 years or more without much practice, other than in the car or shower, or when drinking (karaoke with the wife). What I hadn't mentioned is that I put together a demo (quite a few actually) of sorts for personal use, just to see if I could still sing at all (think Vince Neil then & now LOL). I am not interested at this point in getting back into it (not that I could to begin with, I smoke about 1 1/2 packs a day so no stamina to begin with haha), but you probably know what I mean. I will share it with you if for nothing more than a good laugh (it IS pretty obvious that I have lost more than a few steps to the ravages of time, but I had fun doing it anyhow; it brought back good memories and DID get the juices flowing a bit again).
> 
> ...


Wow, that's very good! Thank you for sharing! Is there more?


----------



## samandhi

dsonance said:


> Wow, that's very good! Thank you for sharing! Is there more?


Thanks so much! 

Sure, if you're hellbent on trying to strip the paint off your walls...   

Most of these, I never bothered to fix the singing errors, did in one take, or otherwise just didn't finish them (also I'm old as dirt and it is much harder to do than it used to be ). They were never meant for human consumption... 

Heaven's On Fire

Dust In The Wind

We're Not Gonna' Take It

Jack & Dianne


----------



## o0genesis0o

Hi folks, My review of Topping G5 is online on Head-fi as well as my personal blog (no ads or affiliation link, but if you visit, the visitor number on my dashboard would make me happy ). I believe that this device can drive all the buds out there, unless someone makes a Susvara in earbuds form.



> Topping G5 is a versatile source. It can be used as a desktop all-in-one, a Bluetooth portable DAC/amp, a portable amplifier, and even a DAC for speakers. It also offers good build quality and excellent handling. The sound quality of the G5 is also excellent. Its desktop effect is addictive, especially if you listen to many complex mixes and recordings. This effect puts G5 one solid step above most dongle DAC/amps.
> 
> The main drawback of G5 is the EMI noise. I choose to work around this issue rather than buy a different one because this kind of device is rarely available at this price point. Suppose you are okay with some infrequent noises when stacking your phone on the amp. *Topping G5 can be a practical endgame for your portable audio, especially if you do not want a digital audio player.
> 
> ...


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> Hi folks, My review of Topping G5 is online on Head-fi as well as my personal blog (no ads or affiliation link, but if you visit, the visitor number on my dashboard would make me happy ). I believe that this device can drive all the buds out there, unless someone makes a Susvara in earbuds form.


Another well written, concise, and honest review. Great job sir! And after looking at the numbers, I agree it should be able to drive just about anything you throw at it. I didn't see a max current draw number, so it might even be able to drive the Susvara..


----------



## samandhi

Ohh, just thought about that... Susvara in earbud form. That would either be fantastic or a disaster waiting to happen...


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> Ohh, just thought about that... Susvara in earbud form. That would either be fantastic or a disaster waiting to happen...


How good is susvara? It’s always at my local hifi store but I haven’t wanted to try it so far. These classics (HD800S, Arya, Hd600, Hd560s) tend to disappoint somehow, like they are so hyped up that no way they can match the hype


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> How good is susvara? It’s always at my local hifi store but I haven’t wanted to try it so far. These classics (HD800S, Arya, Hd600, Hd560s) tend to disappoint somehow, like they are so hyped up that no way they can match the hype


Some are better than others, and you are absolutely right. Don't buy any hype about super high-end gear until/unless you hear them for yourself. As mentioned earlier, I tend to like gear that is not TOTL better than their TOTL... 

The Susvara DO in fact sound very good (from the very short time I had to listen to them, and from memory). But like all high end gear, they have their faults (which is why I never want them at their massively overpriced price point). What they do well, they do it better than the lesser models, but there is always some fault that turns me off. Go a few notches down, and you might run into a set that is "trickle down" tech but is just about perfect (for your ears), and has no noticeable faults.... (and are massively cheaper) lol

AND... BTW! You might or might not be able to drive them with your G5.. They need 502mW and 5.49Vrms and 91.5mA for 110dBSPL. The G5 could give 640mW and 6.197Vrms 103mA. It would be close, but it could do it (it may or may not lack in dynamics and treble resolution)..


----------



## samandhi (Dec 18, 2022)

samandhi said:


> They need 502mW and 5.49Vrms and 91.5mA for 110dBSPL. The G5 could give 640mW and 6.197Vrms 103mA. It would be close, but it could do it (it may or may not lack in dynamics and treble resolution)..


Oh, and I forgot to add to the (what-if) scenario; remember that planars work on capacitance when trying to figure the power needed. Which means that rather than the voltage changing throughout the frequency curve, it stays steady. It is the current draw that varies throughout, and I don't really know the max current draw of the lil' guy (G5).


----------



## chinmie

o0genesis0o said:


> How good is susvara? It’s always at my local hifi store but I haven’t wanted to try it so far. These classics (HD800S, Arya, Hd600, Hd560s) tend to disappoint somehow, like they are so hyped up that no way they can match the hype



Haven't heard the Susvara yet, only the Sundara, Arya, H6, and HE400/500. I still prefer my R70X to those and the HD800, 650,600


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> Oh, and I forgot to add to the (what-if) scenario; remember that planars work on capacitance when trying to figure the power needed. Which means that rather than the voltage changing throughout the frequency curve, it stays steady. It is the current draw that varies throughout, and I don't really know the max current draw of the lil' guy.



I highly doubt G5 can drive Susvara properly, despite the theoretical numbers   

Of course, getting adequate level of sound quality is not hard, but get the most out of transducers would require high quality sources. No matter how I EQ, I cannot get my AP80 Pro X to sound like G5 or Shanling M6U with any IEM and earbuds. But at the same time, AP80 Pro X is perfectly fine. Just like AirPods Pro is fine. Or EarPods are fine. It depends on how much we care, I guess.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> I highly doubt G5 can drive Susvara properly, despite the theoretical numbers


No, you're probably right...


----------



## akjaliedea

Hey everyone, I haven't paid attention to the earbud game for a while - I've been too happy with my Venture Electronics Asura haha. 

But I was wondering if there have been any new wired models released with the airpods style housing (I attached an image for reference). This type of housing is the most comfortable for me and stays in place the best meaning the sound doesn't change much as I move around and I don't have to re-adjust them.  

I used to have a pair like this from a banned brand (I forget its name even) but they broke a while ago.  Thanks !!


----------



## samandhi

akjaliedea said:


> Hey everyone, I haven't paid attention to the earbud game for a while - I've been too happy with my Venture Electronics Asura haha.
> 
> But I was wondering if there have been any new wired models released with the airpods style housing (I attached an image for reference). This type of housing is the most comfortable for me and stays in place the best meaning the sound doesn't change much as I move around and I don't have to re-adjust them.
> 
> I used to have a pair like this from a banned brand (I forget its name even) but they broke a while ago.  Thanks !!


I am not in the know about those types of buds. The only ones I know about are the Earpods.


----------



## mt877 (Dec 18, 2022)

samandhi said:


> You probably should have banked this one for when you really DID need it. Matter of fact, it should count for two or more...


It's all good, we've been together for 35 years, married for 33. Nothing gets between us.

Edit: Also, little acts of random kindness go a long way.


----------



## mt877

akjaliedea said:


> Hey everyone, I haven't paid attention to the earbud game for a while - I've been too happy with my Venture Electronics Asura haha.
> 
> But I was wondering if there have been any new wired models released with the airpods style housing (I attached an image for reference). This type of housing is the most comfortable for me and stays in place the best meaning the sound doesn't change much as I move around and I don't have to re-adjust them.
> 
> I used to have a pair like this from a banned brand (I forget its name even) but they broke a while ago.  Thanks !!


Search on Amazon or AliExpress for 'earbuds wired' and you'll get plenty of hits for the Earpods side firing styled earphones. What's new, what's the best, no clue.


----------



## MiMiranda

arrived yesterday ...


----------



## rkw

mt877 said:


> If I was a manufacturer I would want an honest review, good, bad or indifferent.


"I gave my honest opinion and published a couple of negative reviews. I wonder why they won't send me any more samples?"


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> @Ronion did you order the FF5?


No I didn't even though I'm sure I would like it looking at the graph.  My worry was that I wouldn't love it.  All the buds I listen to these days are 300-600Ohms.  The resolution, composure and soundstage of these high impedance buds is addictive.  At home I pretty much use the Megatron for power and at work the S8 and limit myself to 300Ohm buds.  It's tempting to take the A5 and start using the 500 and 600 Ohm there.  It's really a ridiculously good sounding combination.  Without exaggeration, they are the best HiFi I've ever owned when combined--any of these combinations.  None of them absolutely better than the other.  They are more like Variants of Awesomeness (my new band name).


----------



## mt877

rkw said:


> "I gave my honest opinion and published a couple of negative reviews. I wonder why they won't send me any more samples?"


Constructive criticism or just blasting out how their product was bad? Some products are really bad, some are mediocre, some great. Even the great ones will have flaws or not meet your or someone else's needs. Whether a company wants you to do further reviews is up to them, nothing you can do about that.


----------



## Ronion

The 300DLC can definitely handle some bass boost and get what I would consider bass head levels on the A5.  I have to fit them loosely or else they are just way too warm to me so I tried to mimic it in my rig.  I've yet to hear any earbud sound like this.  Just these ones.  You'll notice that as you fit more loosely, you get more pinna gain as well as less bass.





You'll also note that they handle this sort of abuse rather well.  




This is at a louder level than I typically listen at so don't be afraid of the bass.


----------



## o0genesis0o

MiMiranda said:


> arrived yesterday ...



Congrats on your shiny! How do they sound?



rkw said:


> "I gave my honest opinion and published a couple of negative reviews. I wonder why they won't send me any more samples?"



At least they don’t try to bully or censor you like a certain manufacturer   

I know some manufacturers gathering all reviews and try to find the most positive ones for their marketing materials. Some even borrow (with permission) photos for their social media. I guess be tough but fair. After all, we (reviewers) are not some kind of technical experts who judge products from our ivory tower. We are just talkative and obsessed geeks. They (manufacturers) need to survive to feed many people.

I’m still surprised that some big reviewers receive product sample but do not provide any review because they don’t like. That doesn’t seem fair. I guess when you are that big, your time is more valuable


----------



## Ronion

Ronion said:


> The 300DLC can definitely handle some bass boost and get what I would consider bass head levels on the A5.  I have to fit them loosely or else they are just way too warm to me so I tried to mimic it in my rig.  I've yet to hear any earbud sound like this.  Just these ones.  You'll notice that as you fit more loosely, you get more pinna gain as well as less bass.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This also shows that foam wear doesn't have to lead to a darkening/warming of the bud.  You can just wear them more loosely and get the same response with improved comfort.  You may lose a little stability however.  I also think I may be cramming buds into my ear tighter than I should and they may be leading to premature wear.  I'm not sure, but there's a lesson in this story so I thought I should share.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Thanks so much!
> 
> Sure, if you're hellbent on trying to strip the paint off your walls...
> 
> ...


How did I not know about this!?!?!?  You are awesome brother!  I mean I always thought you were awesome and that was before I knew about this.


----------



## Chessnaudio

samandhi said:


> Thanks so much!
> 
> Sure, if you're hellbent on trying to strip the paint off your walls...
> 
> ...


These are good! Thanks for sharing it with us!


----------



## Gifting (Dec 19, 2022)

Ronion said:


> If you want incredible bass, buy this.  Make sure get get the 300 Ohm one for the best sound quality.  If you are more concerned with detail, resolution, soundstage and composure, this is the one to get.  You can turn those into something better than you can buy or at least as good as anything you can buy and it doesn’t require belief, lots of money or magic.  Just sound(no pun) reason is all that’s required.  DIY is the easiest and cheapest way to get off the hype train.  There are cheaper drivers that still sound good, but those are the best at what they do uniquely and cost as little as bargain buds.  Graph, use your ear, and adjust as you hear necessary.  You can tune any driver to do just about anything you want.  They all have limitations, but you can tune any of them bright to dark or anywhere in between.   Buy a selection of horseshoe foams, white tuning foams, and foam socks of various densities.  You don’t even need to get too fancy with rivets and such.  You can, but just learn the basics of tuning with those supplies and don’t buy clear shells if sound quality is your primary goal.  They’re not well designed and their consistency is lousy.  They are a waste of money.  The material causes treble resonances and a reduced bass capability.   They look cool and they’re the cheapest MX500 shells you can buy, but beauty is only skin deep.
> 
> edit: adapters


Nice recommendations! I've been eyeing that 300 Ohm DLC driver for a while now. That 600 Ohm Bery is very nice. "Detail, resolution, soundstage, and composure"? Sounds like my sort of thing! I read somewhere the silver MX500 shells the Tingo TC200/TG38s use enhance the soundstage. Hopefully that's the case with the 600 Ohm Bery. I might get these or possibly reorder a Tingo TC200 to use its shell. Maybe it would be overkill.... I don't know. Thanks, I'll try to avoid the clear shells.

I will have to order more tuning papers and horseshoes. Thanks for the adapter link!

Sort of a side question for everyone. Does anyone know what driver Blur uses for his *Blur OFC PK150 Wraith *model? Is it the driver from the original PK1? The earbud is ranked high on @WoodyLuvr 's list.


----------



## Ronion

Gifting said:


> Nice recommendations! I've been eyeing that 300 Ohm DLC driver for a while now. That 600 Ohm Bery is very nice. "Detail, resolution, soundstage, and composure"? Sounds like my sort of thing! I read somewhere the silver MX500 shells the Tingo TC200/TG38s use enhance the soundstage. Hopefully that's the case with the 600 Ohm Bery. I might get these or possibly reorder a Tingo TC200 to use its shell. Maybe it would be overkill.... I don't know. Thanks, I'll try to avoid the clear shells.
> 
> I will have to order more tuning papers and horseshoes. Thanks for the adapter link!
> 
> Sort of a side question for everyone. Does anyone know what driver Blur uses for his *Blur OFC PK150 Wraith *model? Is it the driver from the original PK1? The earbud is ranked high on @WoodyLuvr 's list.


Those certainly look like the good shells.  Occasionally you get something other than pictured and there are others who have more expertise in shells, but those look good.  

Oh, I'd check out the Blur PK32 FWIW.  The driver is great and low impedance.  Blur's tuning is warmer, but not lacking in resolution and all day comfortable and listenable.  I haven't heard the 150, but if it's the Red Film, they are hard to find and often costly now.  I have a set, but prefer the PK32. I'd look for that driver over the red film but you won't find it on AE.


----------



## rkw

o0genesis0o said:


> I’m still surprised that some big reviewers receive product sample but do not provide any review because they don’t like. That doesn’t seem fair.


Here is one reviewer's explanation, which I think is sensible. This is the Thomas & Stereo channel and he is one of the few reviewers that I like. Not an aggressive talking guy with a big ego. You just feel like you're visiting a favorite uncle.


----------



## Gifting (Dec 19, 2022)

Ronion said:


> Those certainly look like the good shells.  Occasionally you get something other than pictured and there are others who have more expertise in shells, but those look good.
> 
> Oh, I'd check out the Blur PK32 FWIW.  The driver is great and low impedance.  Blur's tuning is warmer, but not lacking in resolution and all day comfortable and listenable.  I haven't heard the 150, but if it's the Red Film, they are hard to find and often costly now.  I have a set, but prefer the PK32. I'd look for that driver over the red film but you won't find it on AE.


Nice, I'll add them to my cart.
I heard really good things about the Blur PK32. I was under the impression that Blur used 32 Ohm BG drivers for those. I was wrong, just checked they have different sizes.

........ _searching Ali_

Not findable on Aliexpress huh? Oof. I was hoping these were it!  _fingers crossed_

_Edit: _I really don’t know what the PK32 drivers Blur uses are supposed to look like. I saw this in the description and got me interested.


----------



## dsonance

samandhi said:


> Thanks so much!
> 
> Sure, if you're hellbent on trying to strip the paint off your walls...
> 
> ...


Those are excellent, brother! You're being way too modest. Thanks a lot for sharing!


----------



## baskingshark

FAAEAL Lilium

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005041552350.html

$76 USD

Looks like the showerhead in my toilet. But jokes aside, looks like it is 2 pin detachable! And it uses a Nano gold diamond diaphragm!


----------



## fooltoque

FF5 came! Just been listening for an hour or so, but so far I really like it! It has what I felt the FF3 was missing, which I think is mids. I say 'think' because my experience with describing what I'm hearing is still a bit low, but I'm pretty sure that's what I'm liking about them. Resolution is also clearly better. Right away I was missing some of the bass of the FF3's, so after a while I added about 2db at 30Hz, and 0.9 at 60Hz, and that brought it up to a really nice level. As much as I like the FF3s, I have found them fatiguing after a while, and these do not have that problem. 

I haven't done any A-B testing with anything yet, so it could be just the glow of a new purchase, but I have a feeling I'll be listening to these more than anything else that I have.

Although now that I'm enjoying these, I am interested in some of the other buds that others here have said are similar to FF5 but better xD. I guess the hole in my pocket has not burned quite big enough yet. 

Cable I'm moderately happy with. It is a bit stiff, but pretty darn nice looking.


----------



## digititus

fooltoque said:


> FF5 came! Just been listening for an hour or so, but so far I really like it! It has what I felt the FF3 was missing, which I think is mids. I say 'think' because my experience with describing what I'm hearing is still a bit low, but I'm pretty sure that's what I'm liking about them. Resolution is also clearly better. Right away I was missing some of the bass of the FF3's, so after a while I added about 2db at 30Hz, and 0.9 at 60Hz, and that brought it up to a really nice level. As much as I like the FF3s, I have found them fatiguing after a while, and these do not have that problem.
> 
> I haven't done any A-B testing with anything yet, so it could be just the glow of a new purchase, but I have a feeling I'll be listening to these more than anything else that I have.
> 
> ...


Would be interested in your EM5 / FF5 comparison


----------



## fooltoque

digititus said:


> Would be interested in your EM5 / FF5 comparison


I'd be happy to when I can get a bit of time to listen to them back to back.


----------



## seanc6441 (Dec 19, 2022)

chinmie said:


> Hey Sean, long time no see 😁
> I also have the Air 3 and it's my most used earbuds at the moment. The sound is surprisingly good and have bass that's enjoyable for movies too.


Long time indeed lol. Nice pick up. I've been messing around with them for a few days and picked up another two pairs for Christmas presents.

I've realised you don't actually need to use foams at all but can still tune the sound slightly alongside EQ to make them sound really good along the entire frequency range.

Basically i took some blutack (temporary measure for testing) and blocked about 50% of the bass port (vent at the top of the earphone). This reduces the bass boom slightly which you then fine tune with the EQ at 70hz and 300hz. It also seems to smooth out some peaks in the midrange and treble. Adding more control and balance to the frequency response.

With EQ, whichwill vary slightly per each users pair of earphones, this is what im using on the pair I'm currently tuning on an Android Phone (for some reason the sound on iphone/android is different to my ear)





The end result is VERY impressive for an earphone. Full base down to 30hz before it drops off slowly. Resonably balanced slightly warm but focused mids (not recessed behind the strong bass) and clean treble with good extension. Better than a $35ish pair of wireless earbuds has any right to sound imo.

I was happy enough with the result that I made it permanent by placing a dab of gel type superglue over 50% of the vent using a tweezers (anything small and pointy will do) and now ive got it tuned for the long term like this.


----------



## Ronion

Gifting said:


> Nice, I'll add them to my cart.
> I heard really good things about the Blur PK32. I was under the impression that Blur used 32 Ohm BG drivers for those. I was wrong, just checked they have different sizes.
> 
> ........ _searching Ali_
> ...


That's definitely not the PK32, but it looks like a relative to the Red Film.  I'm leery of that driver because that description could very well mean "TREBLE HEAVY, NO BASS, RUN AWAY".  Then when people say 'I couldn't make it sound good' they can say 'you are not experienced enough'.  There's a chance that it's awesome aw well, but requires a fairly large sum of money.  By the time you buy good shells for that, you could easily have the 500Ohm Be and the 300Ohm DLC.  Both of which will likely sound better than that.  PK shells are expensive if you want the good ones--and you do want the good ones.


----------



## Oscarilbo

Guys. Since the subject have been somewhat discussed before, wanted to ask you something: *Is there any budget DAP with a true line out that I could use just as a transport to my Schiit stack?* I dont need internet connection, nor computer nor anything fancy, just where I can drop purchased FLAC and WAV files and listen through my stack beside my bed.

Thanks in advance


----------



## mt877

Oscarilbo said:


> Guys. Since the subject have been somewhat discussed before, wanted to ask you something: *Is there any budget DAP with a true line out that I could use just as a transport to my Schiit stack?* I dont need internet connection, nor computer nor anything fancy, just where I can drop purchased FLAC and WAV files and listen through my stack beside my bed.
> 
> Thanks in advance


Check out this forum thread: Hi-Res Portable DAPs comparison chart 2022

Look at the headphone out diagrams underneath the DAPs. LO are indicated with green dots. Most are 3.5mm SE LO, there are a few with 4.4mm Balanced LO.

Entry to Mid-range ones with a true line out are iBasso DX120, Luxury & Precision L3GT
Mid-range to Premium ones with true line out are iBasso DX150, DX220, DX240, Cayin N3Pro, Hiby R6 2020

There are others with combined headphone / LO, but those aren't what you asked about.


----------



## Oscarilbo (Dec 19, 2022)

mt877 said:


> Check out this forum thread: Hi-Res Portable DAPs comparison chart 2022
> 
> Look at the headphone out diagrams underneath the DAPs. LO are indicated with green dots. Most are 3.5mm SE LO, there are a few with 4.4mm Balanced LO.
> 
> ...


Wow! that chart is amazing! Finally a way to compare DAPs, kudos to the makers. For what I'm seeing the Hiby R3 Pro Saber may be a perfect solution since it have SPDIF output via USB-C, for which a would have to use a USB-C to COAXIAL cable I assume, connected to my Schiit Modi3+ DAC.
Edit: Also the Fiio M5 has SPDIF through 3.5/COAX output, and it looks great for what I need it.

Thank you so much!


----------



## Carpet

Oscarilbo said:


> Wow! that chart is amazing! Finally a way to compare DAPs, kudos to the makers. For what I'm seeing the Hiby R3 Pro Saber may be a perfect solution since it have SPDIF output via USB-C, for which a would have to use a USB-C to COAXIAL cable I assume, connected to my Schiit Modi3+ DAC.
> Edit: Also the Fiio M5 has SPDIF through 3.5/COAX output, and it looks great for what I need it.
> 
> Thank you so much!


Hiby have a bad rep for battery failures. They do make some good passive DACs and IEMs. Their DAPs are best approached with caution. Hidizs also uses HibyOS and MSEB if you still want those on an affordable DAP.


----------



## mt877

Oscarilbo said:


> Wow! that chart is amazing! Finally a way to compare DAPs, kudos to the makers. For what I'm seeing the Hiby R3 Pro Saber may be a perfect solution since it have SPDIF output via USB-C, for which a would have to use a USB-C to COAXIAL cable I assume, connected to my Schiit Modi3+ DAC.
> Edit: Also the Fiio M5 has SPDIF through 3.5/COAX output, and it looks great for what I need it.
> 
> Thank you so much!


That IS an amazing chart. Kudos to @alignJP for creating it. When I saw it the first time I bookmarked it right away. I hope alignJP continues with a 2023 chart as well. Good luck in your search for the perfect DAP. Now you have a nice resource for quick comparisons.


----------



## Oscarilbo

Carpet said:


> Hiby have a bad rep for battery failures. They do make some good passive DACs and IEMs. Their DAPs are best approached with caution. Hidizs also uses HibyOS and MSEB if you still want those on an affordable DAP.


Since I’m just interested in their line out (S/PDIF) capabilities if the Hidizs have it its also fine. But I think the Fiio M5 is getting closer and closer to what those needs. 


mt877 said:


> That IS an amazing chart. Kudos to @alignJP for creating it. When I saw it the first time I bookmarked it right away. I hope alignJP continues with a 2023 chart as well. Good luck in your search for the perfect DAP. Now you have a nice resource for quick comparisons.


 Extraordinary helpful. A question, if I may. When it says USB AUDIO, does it mean a SPDIF type output or something else?


----------



## mt877 (Dec 19, 2022)

Oscarilbo said:


> Since I’m just interested in their line out (S/PDIF) capabilities if the Hidizs have it its also fine. But I think the Fiio M5 is getting closer and closer to what those needs.
> 
> Extraordinary helpful. A question, if I may. When it says USB AUDIO, does it mean a SPDIF type output or something else?


Edit: Sorry I was wrong about S/PDIF, it's optical and over copper. USB Audio means digital audio out from the USB port. You would use it to feed another DAC/AMP, most people would use it so they don't do the 'dreaded' double amping. I suppose you could get a USB to S/PDIF dongle / converter. The Cowon Plenue 2 Mark II has an optical out which should be S/PDIF.

Edit: For the DAPs that have USB DAC / USB Audio / COAX, the COAX would be the S/PDIF out via copper.


----------



## Oscarilbo (Dec 19, 2022)

mt877 said:


> Edit: Sorry I was wrong about S/PDIF, it's optical and over copper. USB Audio means digital audio out from the USB port. You would use it to feed another DAC/AMP, most people would use it so they don't do the 'dreaded' double amping. I suppose you could get a USB to S/PDIF dongle / converter. The Cowon Plenue 2 Mark II has an optical out which should be S/PDIF.
> 
> Edit: For the DAPs that have USB DAC / USB Audio / COAX, the COAX would be the S/PDIF out via copper.


Thank you. From my understanding SPDIF can be both optical and coaxial. Dont know if digal out through USB could be called SPDIF also. But my Schiit DAC has three inputs for digital audio; COAX, OPTICAL and micro USB. So, the question is…Would USB audio output send as clean digital signal as optical/coax SPDIF?


----------



## mt877

Oscarilbo said:


> Thank you. From my understanding SPDIF can be both optical and coaxial. Dont know if digal out through USB could be called SPDIF also. But my Schiit DAC has three inputs for digital audio; COAX, OPTICAL and micro USB. So, the question is…Would USB audio output send as clean digital signal as optical/coax SPDIF?


Good question. In the end the digital data is gonna process through the same DAC in your amp and you probably won’t hear a difference with a short cable run. I guess if you’re concerned with EMI, then optical would be first, followed by coax, then usb?


----------



## Carpet

Oscarilbo said:


> Since I’m just interested in their line out (S/PDIF) capabilities if the Hidizs have it its also fine. But I think the Fiio M5 is getting closer and closer to what those needs.
> 
> Extraordinary helpful. A question, if I may. When it says USB AUDIO, does it mean a SPDIF type output or something else?


USB on a DAP can be used for; charging; transferring files; input for using DAP as a DAC/Amp from another source; digital output to an external DAC/Amp. Always a combination of the former, usually not all!

DAP also works as an acronym for "Divergent And Pernicious"!


----------



## fooltoque

Giz Audio went to the same audio show I did. This is what it looked like. 

I am not in the video. I checked. There is actually a guy who is wearing the same hat as me, but I never sat down at that booth


----------



## fooltoque

digititus said:


> Would be interested in your EM5 / FF5 comparison


I won't get too into it, because I have a hard time explaining what I'm hearing. But let's take this song for example. 



When I listen with the EM5, I'm really drawn to the bass guitar line. It sounds great, and I think it is a great bass line, so I like the attention to it. I lose some of that with the FF5, and I miss it.

When I listen with the FF5, the vocals command attention over everything else. I think FiiO claims that the FF5 is geared towards female vocals, and some of us were really wary of that statement, because it usually is accompanied by uncomfortable high frequency spikes. But in FF5's case, I think that you can take the statement completely at face value. It definitely does showcase female vocals. 

The vocals in the song alternate between just her single voice and what sounds like a copy of her voice with a filter in the background. With the EM5, I find that background filtered voice come across a bit harsh to my ears. The FF5 is never harsh in anything I've heard from it, despite having plenty of sparkle and fun in the top end. 

I've said this before, and it is also true in this case. The EM5 sounds very true to the source. If I saw the song live, I would expect it to sound more like what I'm hearing from the EM5 than the FF5. 

I've been listening to the FF5 all day. Like literally 8 hours or so today. I actually can't normally do that with headphones, because I get some sort of fatigue. the FF5 is remarkably fatigue-less for me. I've enjoyed every minute of it. One thing other than female vocals that I think it does remarkably well is string instruments. I had a friend who was a concert master in for the Tucson Symphony orchestra, and I didn't have much experience with classical music, but I went to see one of his concerts one day and was just floored by his violin solo. I was really struck by how each sound was made up of so many little fine subtle sounds. It was so much more complex that I had realized. I had listened to violin before on speakers and headphones mostly, but I had never really gotten that sense of impact before. Listening to cello on the FF5 reminded me a bit of that day. 

A hard rock or metal song is not a great match for the FF5. It is not bad, but not great. Although in that case I wouldn't pull out the EM5s, but I would grab the FF3's instead.


----------



## samandhi (Dec 20, 2022)

Oscarilbo said:


> Thank you. From my understanding SPDIF can be both optical and coaxial. Dont know if digal out through USB could be called SPDIF also. But my Schiit DAC has three inputs for digital audio; COAX, OPTICAL and micro USB. So, the question is…Would USB audio output send as clean digital signal as optical/coax SPDIF?


In this case it does not matter. They are all digital not analog. This means that you will be using both the DAC and amplification section of your desktop device. So, you won't be worrying about it being clean or not, you are simply transferring a digital signal into your desktop device. Think of it much like simply copying files from a PC to an external source.

If, however you were wanting true LO, it would normally come in the way of 4.4mm balanced out (analog signal, meaning the DAC is used, but not the amplification section). Some have 3.5mm SE out, but be careful of this. You cannot go out of 3.5mm SE into 4.4mm balanced without a special cable. You can destroy the source device or both devices if you do this with the wrong cable. And don't trust a cheap Chinese cable that "says" it will work. There have been a ton of them that have been proven to still have improper grounds and proven to be harmful to devices.

The point of all of this, is you could use an existing/old phone w/micro SD card and it would accomplish the same thing as using a higher end DAP. If ALL you are using it for is what you are describing, then practically anything with USB Audio out, or Coax, or optical will work for your purposes, and sound exactly the same. 

Edit: I use the Shanling M0 for this purpose sometimes. It was only $100 and works great.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> How did I not know about this!?!?!?  You are awesome brother!  I mean I always thought you were awesome and that was before I knew about this.


Probably because I don't talk much about it... 


dsonance said:


> Those are excellent, brother! You're being way too modest. Thanks a lot for sharing!


They say you are your own worst critic... 

Thanks for the kind words Hermanos mios!


----------



## prakasitp

drewbadour said:


> Looking forward to your impressions too!
> 
> Have you tried others by ucotech?


my first Ucotech buds is ES-P1 which I quite like the sound of it and listen to it quite often.


----------



## drewbadour

prakasitp said:


> my first Ucotech buds is ES-P1 which I quite like the sound of it and listen to it quite often.


Nice! How would you compare them to the rest of your buds


----------



## fooltoque

Just going to throw my thoughts out into the internet for a bit 

Up until now my buds have been exclusively portable. Whenever I'm at my desk I always use my over-ears, a Sennheiser HD560s. Mostly because of ease of use and fatigueless listening. EM5s were never a competitor to the HD560s. FF3's were also not a competitor, but I wanted them to be. The FF3s made me want over-ears with better tuning than the HD560s. But the FF5's are finally a legit competitor at the desktop. 

A-B'ing the FF5 against the HD560s really highlights their strengths and weaknesses. They are both non-fatiguing to listen to over long periods, which is essential at the desktop for me. I much prefer the tuning of the FF5, it sounds so much more rich through the middle region, and honestly I prefer it's bass as well. However, the HD560s tromps it in soundstage and instrument separation. I haven't tried gaming with the FF5, but I'm sure it can't touch the HD560s. 

Well mostly the FF5s have made me realize that it is time to search for an over-ears successor to my HD560s. Something with the same qualities of non-fatiguing, physically comfortable, great separation, resolution, and soundstage, and better tuned to my preferences. Unless anyone has ideas for an earbud that would give the same?


----------



## Into The Light5

fooltoque said:


> Just going to throw my thoughts out into the internet for a bit
> 
> Up until now my buds have been exclusively portable. Whenever I'm at my desk I always use my over-ears, a Sennheiser HD560s. Mostly because of ease of use and fatigueless listening. EM5s were never a competitor to the HD560s. FF3's were also not a competitor, but I wanted them to be. The FF3s made me want over-ears with better tuning than the HD560s. But the FF5's are finally a legit competitor at the desktop.
> 
> ...


I heard that the altiat is a step up from hd600, no idea about the hd560 though, since youre from japan, have you tried the new nobunaga labs earbud? Im interested with that, but i doubt it since they are mainly focused on making cable (?) I was thinking if it legit good or just some mediocre earbud paired with a good cable


----------



## fooltoque

Into The Light5 said:


> I heard that the altiat is a step up from hd600, no idea about the hd560 though, since youre from japan, have you tried the new nobunaga labs earbud? Im interested with that, but i doubt it since they are mainly focused on making cable (?) I was thinking if it legit good or just some mediocre earbud paired with a good cable



The Uguisu? I actually mentioned them a few times on this page. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-4489#post-17300518

I didn't realize they were primarily a cable manufacturer. It's funny, cause I specifically said that I'd switch out the cable if I bought them lol. But again, I am not speaking to the cable quality, just that it is boring


----------



## silverszi

Ronion said:


> The 300DLC can definitely handle some bass boost and get what I would consider bass head levels on the A5.  I have to fit them loosely or else they are just way too warm to me so I tried to mimic it in my rig.  I've yet to hear any earbud sound like this.  Just these ones.  You'll notice that as you fit more loosely, you get more pinna gain as well as less bass.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


what enclosure is this 300 DLC in, I was told it had no pinna


----------



## jogawag (Dec 23, 2022)

Into The Light5 said:


> I heard that the altiat is a step up from hd600, no idea about the hd560 though, since youre from japan, have you tried the new nobunaga labs earbud? Im interested with that, but i doubt it since they are mainly focused on making cable (?) I was thinking if it legit good or just some mediocre earbud paired with a good cable



I purchased NOBUNAGA labs Uguisu from Amazon Japan.

The sound of the Uguisu out of box was cloudy in the treble, so I changed the supplied mmcx ofc cable to a silver-plated cable and had listened to it.
However, after 50 hours of burn-in, I switched back to the supplied cable and noticed the warm sound to my liking with extended treble and bass.

The treble and mid that earbuds have, of course, are very good, but the bass is also very good.
There is no sense of "something missing" as is often the case with earbuds. The sound is well balanced and expansive.
I think the balance is better without the earpads.

The Uguisu also feels good to wear due to the shape of its shell.
Along with the docomo earbuds and DIY 32 ohm N52 BG earbuds, they have become my favorite earbuds right now.


----------



## fooltoque

jogawag said:


> I purchased NOBUNAGA labs Uguisu from Amazon Japan.
> 
> The sound of the Uguisu out of box was cloudy in the treble, so I changed the supplied mmcx ofc cable to a silver-plated cable and had listened to it.
> However, after 50 hours of burn-in, I switched back to the supplied cable and noticed the warm sound to my liking with extended treble and bass.
> ...


Great! I'm glad I didn't recommend a dud  
I'm still planning on going back and listening to them a few more times.


----------



## Ronion

silverszi said:


> what enclosure is this 300 DLC in, I was told it had no pinna


Regular MX500.  Pinna Gain comes from tuning--it's not an inherent driver characteristic.  Pretty much all of them "have no pinna gain" in their naked state.  You've got to tune it in.


----------



## Oscarilbo (Dec 22, 2022)

samandhi said:


> In this case it does not matter. They are all digital not analog. This means that you will be using both the DAC and amplification section of your desktop device. So, you won't be worrying about it being clean or not, you are simply transferring a digital signal into your desktop device. Think of it much like simply copying files from a PC to an external source.
> 
> If, however you were wanting true LO, it would normally come in the way of 4.4mm balanced out (analog signal, meaning the DAC is used, but not the amplification section). Some have 3.5mm SE out, but be careful of this. You cannot go out of 3.5mm SE into 4.4mm balanced without a special cable. You can destroy the source device or both devices if you do this with the wrong cable. And don't trust a cheap Chinese cable that "says" it will work. There have been a ton of them that have been proven to still have improper grounds and proven to be harmful to devices.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I’ve now had my eyes on the Hidisz AP80 Pro, since as the chart states, it has USB AUDIO OUTPUT, but then reading a bit more I encountered the sent signal its been affected by the volume knob, meaning its variable and not fixed. Wouldn’t that mean its not actually bypassing its internal DAC/AMP?


----------



## silverszi

Ronion said:


> Regular MX500.  Pinna Gain comes from tuning--it's not an inherent driver characteristic.  Pretty much all of them "have no pinna gain" in their naked state.  You've got to tune it in.


i put it in a qian/lite shell
don't hate it
but also most drivers I've tried (n52bg, black dot bio, 64wg, whatever the qian driver is) don't budge much from their pinna shape unless i dampen them, but in any enclosure have pinna gain


----------



## Ronion

silverszi said:


> i put it in a qian/lite shell
> don't hate it
> but also most drivers I've tried (n52bg, black dot bio, 64wg, whatever the qian driver is) don't budge much from their pinna shape unless i dampen them, but in any enclosure have pinna gain


that’s how you tune it in…. That shell is easier to tune from the outside.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Oscarilbo said:


> Thank you. I’ve now had my eyes on the Hidisz AP80 Pro, since as the chart states, it has USB AUDIO OUTPUT, but then reading a bit more I encountered the sent signal its been affected by the volume knob, meaning its variable and not fixed. Wouldn’t that mean its not actually bypassing its internal DAC/AMP?


When AP80 Pro X is used as USB output to a dongle or other DAC/Amp, it works exactly like your phone: sending digital music stream to the external device. The internal DAC/amp stops working. 

I don’t recommend using this device with a dongle. Good dongles drain the battery of AP80 Pro X in now time. 

Btw, Pro is an older version. The current one is Pro X.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Oscarilbo said:


> Guys. Since the subject have been somewhat discussed before, wanted to ask you something: *Is there any budget DAP with a true line out that I could use just as a transport to my Schiit stack?* I dont need internet connection, nor computer nor anything fancy, just where I can drop purchased FLAC and WAV files and listen through my stack beside my bed.
> 
> Thanks in advance



AP80 Pro X has a lineout mode. You use an aux cable (3.5mm to 3.5mm) to connect the DAP to your Magni. In this case, your modi is not used.


----------



## Into The Light5

jogawag said:


> I purchased NOBUNAGA labs Uguisu from Amazon Japan.
> 
> The sound of the Uguisu out of box was cloudy in the treble, so I changed the supplied mmcx ofc cable to a silver-plated cable and had listened to it.
> However, after 50 hours of burn-in, I switched back to the supplied cable and noticed the warm sound to my liking with extended treble and bass.
> ...


How is the soundstage? I was eyeing the faaeal lilium, db1e, and uguisu for the past 1 month


----------



## Oscarilbo

o0genesis0o said:


> When AP80 Pro X is used as USB output to a dongle or other DAC/Amp, it works exactly like your phone: sending digital music stream to the external device. The internal DAC/amp stops working.
> 
> I don’t recommend using this device with a dongle. Good dongles drain the battery of AP80 Pro X in now time.
> 
> Btw, Pro is an older version. The current one is Pro X.


I see. Thank you. But what if it use the DAP connected to current? would that be bad?


----------



## o0genesis0o

Oscarilbo said:


> I see. Thank you. But what if it use the DAP connected to current? would that be bad?


Do you mean that you want to charge the DAP and run the Modi with a USB cable from the DAP at the same time? I'm not sure it's possible because the DAP only has one USB port for both charging and data.

Of course you can charge the DAP and use the line out directly to the Magni. The battery longevity would be degraded, afaik.

Edit: maybe you can grab an old phone and connect it permanently to the Modi somehow?


----------



## jogawag (Dec 23, 2022)

Into The Light5 said:


> How is the soundstage? I was eyeing the faaeal lilium, db1e, and uguisu for the past 1 month


I think the soundstage of Uguisu is on the wide side.

The faaeal lilium and db1e did not bite me because of the 2-pin specifications.
It's fun when you are confused about the choice.

Postscript;
After 75 hours of burn-in upper treble and subbass of Uguisu were further extended.
And I became to think the balance is better with earpads.


----------



## o0genesis0o

I have been rocking out with the FF5 for a couple hours. Couldn't stop to measure and write some impressions.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Early impressions of Fiio FF5​










It's _stunning_. 

Fiio has addressed all of my issues with FF3. 

The stiff and ugly cable is gone, replaced by a new MMCX cable that looks good and feel right. It's still a bit too stiff, but it does not tangle easily and does not curl upon itself. I still think that the silver cable packed with TGXear Serratus is more suitable for earbuds (lighter and softer), but FF5's cable is a huge improvement.
The lack of resolution is gone. One of my pet peeves of FF3 is that it does not reveal micro details or separate overlapping instruments on the soundstage very well. Yes, it presents a big, thumpy soundstage that is satisfying, but sometimes I wish for just a bit extra finesses, like Serratus. 
Let's look at some songs. These are impressions of FF5 by itself without A/B against others. *All of these impressions are with balanced foam tips and Fiio K7.*



This songs highlight the bass performance of FF5. The bass is no longer big, rumbly, with loud "BOOM" and "brrrrm". The boomy has been toned down a bit. On the plus side, the attack of bass notes are sharper. The bass line feels snappy, rhythmic, and makes me want to move. Noted that it's not a dry, reference, sub-bass focused bass like Serratus either. It still has the DNA of FF3, but just less boomy.



This song demonstrates FF5's formidable soundstage imaging and separation. I can hear, and pin point the direction of most instruments as they appear on the stage. The choir on the right of the stage appears with texture and details that I can almost hear individual voices rather than a blog of male vocals. 



Beautiful midrange presentation. Both Aurora and her backing vocals sound clear, detailed, and transparent without any mud, any unnecessary warmth. At the same time, the vocals are not bright and thin. The signature Fiio's warmth is still there.



This performance, especially the first song, is the one that I can barely stand with Serratus, due to sibilance. I'm glad to report that there is no treble sharpness or deadly sibilance spike with FF5. Not to say that it smooths over treble peaks like FF3. It's right at the edge in terms of sharpness, but not over.

Early Verdict​
If you are after a slightly more reference tuning like I do, and you want your buds to look fancy (shallow, I know), FF5 might be the one. So far, I like it.


----------



## ttorbic

o0genesis0o said:


> Early impressions of Fiio FF5​
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Many thanks for sharing this so quickly! Looking forward to your full review featuring an epic battle between Serratus and FF5


----------



## Ohmboy

Finally arrived at our boat (thank you Jim) Serattus #0014…ordered 11/11 delivered yesterday and what a perfect colour for the season 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and hohoho I’m now off work till the 3rd of Jan get in there


----------



## samandhi (Dec 23, 2022)

fooltoque said:


> Just going to throw my thoughts out into the internet for a bit
> 
> Up until now my buds have been exclusively portable. Whenever I'm at my desk I always use my over-ears, a Sennheiser HD560s. Mostly because of ease of use and fatigueless listening. EM5s were never a competitor to the HD560s. FF3's were also not a competitor, but I wanted them to be. The FF3s made me want over-ears with better tuning than the HD560s. But the FF5's are finally a legit competitor at the desktop.
> 
> ...


There is a reason that the (aging) HD line is still popular in the audiophile community. 

I am just not sure there are any earbuds that can give that sense of space, staging, etc... that you can get from any of the Sennys at this point (except the HD600 and HD650 which are pretty intimate for open backs). This is also a dilemma for me (having the HD700, which are known to be second only to the OG HD800 for how big the presentation is). The FF3 and the Yinman 2.0 600 have come the closest to my ears. The FF5 aren't too far behind where that is concerned (and has better tuning than the FF3) IMHO.

As for over ears, I am not too up-to-date with the contemporary stuff, but I would think that it is going to cost a pretty penny to get that sort of performance nowadays. Having said that, the HD800 are still a fantastic set. I also think that the HD700 are astounding for the money they can be had for (being discontinued and all), but am not sure the tuning would be ideal for (what seems to be) your preferred signature, though I can't be sure about that. Have you considered any of the Focal line? They are known for their depth (dynamics) being top in the industry. Paired with the staging you can get from open backs, these might offer what you are looking for.

I only have the Elegia, which are closed backs. I DO have to mention though that they have made these sound a lot like open backs, and have read they actually sound bigger than the HD600, an open back so I can only surmise (having the same DNA) that their open backs might be that plus some.


Oscarilbo said:


> Thank you. I’ve now had my eyes on the Hidisz AP80 Pro, since as the chart states, it has USB AUDIO OUTPUT, but then reading a bit more I encountered the sent signal its been affected by the volume knob, meaning its variable and not fixed. Wouldn’t that mean its not actually bypassing its internal DAC/AMP?


That is a product of programming in the OS of the device and is not actually affecting the volume per se'. It is more like gain, and you could just set it to max with no worry because it is indeed a digital signal that won't affect clipping or distortion. That would (more than likely) be a good solution for you. 


o0genesis0o said:


> AP80 Pro X has a lineout mode. You use an aux cable (3.5mm to 3.5mm) to connect the DAP to your Magni. In this case, your modi is not used.


I think he was wanting "true" lineout, and if it is using the same jack as the PO, I highly doubt that it is a true lineout. Having said that, with all the new tech coming out I could be off base here though.

But, you are right. If used in this fashion, you would want to forgo the DAC in your chain because coming out of the LO would be an analog signal and subject to any/all flaws of the DAP being used. It would not be a transport but would be part of the analog chain.


Oscarilbo said:


> I see. Thank you. But what if it use the DAP connected to current? would that be bad?


As @o0genesis0o said, you can't charge it (incoming) at the same time as using USB Audio out (outgoing), so you will have to take it out of the chain and charge it now and again. As long as you don't mind doing that, there shouldn't be a problem. 



Spoiler






o0genesis0o said:


> Early impressions of Fiio FF5​
> 
> 
> 
> ...






On this set of buds, I think we are in total agreement. I think you nailed the bullet points very well my friend! As mentioned by me earlier, I am still a bit shocked that there is not any harshness, sibilance, or otherwise "female poison" at all with these, but remain crystal clear most times and with most music. I can safely say (to my ears) that this even holds true with no foams at all, though I also use the "balanced" foams like yourself. I think that the overall staging is bigger/grander on the FF3, but not as accurate sounding.

As for the bass, I find it to be (almost) "planar" like in its speed, texture, and overall articulation, but it is still present enough to give you the "non boring" sound that might otherwise be missing from a set that could be considered analytical (which I find these to lean closer to). And this is my favorite type of bass. Sure I have my "guilty pleasure" IEMs/headphones that give some deep rumbly bass, but they aren't as accurate as I would want them to be if I am doing any sort of critical listening (they have their place though).


----------



## syazwaned

o0genesis0o said:


> Early impressions of Fiio FF5​
> 
> 
> 
> ...





o0genesis0o said:


> Early impressions of Fiio FF5​
> 
> 
> 
> ...





How holographic is FF5 imaging? it and how far it is from imaging of a headphone (ananda /hd800s ) level?


----------



## ttorbic

Ohmboy said:


> Finally arrived at our boat (thank you Jim) Serattus #0014…ordered 11/11 delivered yesterday and what a perfect colour for the season
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice, congrats!! You're in for a very nice Christmas 🙌🙌

Glad they made it to you before Christmas - my Ripples was sent a week after yours but its stuck in a RM depot somewhere. Hopefully I'll get them early next year!


----------



## fooltoque

samandhi said:


> There is a reason that the (aging) HD line is still popular in the audiophile community.
> 
> I am just not sure there are any earbuds that can give that sense of space, staging, etc... that you can get from any of the Sennys at this point (except the HD600 and HD650 which are pretty intimate for open backs). This is also a dilemma for me (having the HD700, which are known to be second only to the OG HD800 for how big the presentation is). The FF3 and the Yinman 2.0 600 have come the closest to my ears. The FF5 aren't too far behind where that is concerned (and has better tuning than the FF3) IMHO.


Yeah, I also was thinking that this was a limitation of the form factor. I really do find it to be night and day as far as sense of space and laser focus. I have heard that the 560s are one of Sennheiser's best in that regard, unless you want to pay to get into the HD800 territory. 


samandhi said:


> As for over ears, I am not too up-to-date with the contemporary stuff, but I would think that it is going to cost a pretty penny to get that sort of performance nowadays. Having said that, the HD800 are still a fantastic set. I also think that the HD700 are astounding for the money they can be had for (being discontinued and all), but am not sure the tuning would be ideal for (what seems to be) your preferred signature, though I can't be sure about that. Have you considered any of the Focal line? They are known for their depth (dynamics) being top in the industry. Paired with the staging you can get from open backs, these might offer what you are looking for.
> 
> I only have the Elegia, which are closed backs. I DO have to mention though that they have made these sound a lot like open backs, and have read they actually sound bigger than the HD600, an open back so I can only surmise (having the same DNA) that their open backs might be that plus some.


Thanks for the recommendations! I _have_ considered the Focal line. Unfortunately I haven't been able to try any yet. I know that e-earphones sells the Focal Clear MG Pro, but that seems to be the only one they sell, and I don't recall seeing it on the wall for trying out. Now that I'm seriously thinking of an upgrade I'm probably going to head over there and start seriously listening to what they have. 

BTW, @o0genesis0o I liked your song selection for the FF5, especially Rasputin  This was the song from my current playlist that I thought really stood out with the FF5 compared to other buds. I think it's because the brass sounds too strident on other buds, but the FF5s just perfectly allow them to do their thing on the right while you can really get into that driving beat from the left, with the smokey vocals filling out the center. It brings balance to the whole song.


----------



## samandhi

fooltoque said:


> Yeah, I also was thinking that this was a limitation of the form factor. I really do find it to be night and day as far as sense of space and laser focus. I have heard that the 560s are one of Sennheiser's best in that regard, unless you want to pay to get into the HD800 territory.


One of the tricks that Sennheiser uses that makes them stand out in this regard is the angled drivers. Though only the HD660, HD700, and HD800 have this (which is probably why they are known to be so big). The HD660 using the same driver as the HD700, but reworked... 

This is also why I recommended the Focal "high-end" line because they employ this same "angled driver" technology, giving them a natural diffuse type of staging. But you are right, these are going to cost you IMO. 


fooltoque said:


> Thanks for the recommendations! I _have_ considered the Focal line. Unfortunately I haven't been able to try any yet. I know that e-earphones sells the Focal Clear MG Pro, but that seems to be the only one they sell, and I don't recall seeing it on the wall for trying out. Now that I'm seriously thinking of an upgrade I'm probably going to head over there and start seriously listening to what they have.


You are most welcome! 

I have heard SOME good things about the Clear MG Pro, but I have heard way better things about the Clear OG (if you can still get them).

Having said that, Hifiman makes some really affordable open backs, and while some are tuned fantastically, they aren't at HD800 level of staging (pretty large, but not to that level). You may have to make compromises to get what you are looking for in a price range that doesn't make you mortgage your house. You might just be better off sticking with the HD560 now that I am thinking about it... LOL


----------



## hongky

o0genesis0o said:


> Early impressions of Fiio FF5​
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This remind me of Viridis
Anyone can compare FF5 with Viridis ?

Thanks


----------



## samandhi

This song sounds really tasty with the FF5 (if you like Prog Rock) using my PC USB out to Shanling M0 (as DAC/Amp) to FF5 via 3.5mm SE out:


----------



## Xicu

o0genesis0o said:


> Early impressions of Fiio FF5​
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great that you finally received it. Looking forward for the full review. How do they handle EDM compared to FF3?


----------



## syazwaned

samandhi said:


> This song sounds really tasty with the FF5 (if you like Prog Rock) using my PC USB out to Shanling M0 (as DAC/Amp) to FF5 via 3.5mm SE out:



how good is the ff5 imaging? Asking because I can't spend money enough for serratus


----------



## samandhi

syazwaned said:


> how good is the ff5 imaging? Asking because I can't spend money enough for serratus


It is (mostly) on point. I can definitely tell where things are coming from and what direction (though I have yet to try these with gaming). 

Put it this way; I can tell there is a clarinet behind the flute, but I couldn't tell you exactly which chair they are playing it from. So, they aren't quite to the levels of something like the HD800 though.


----------



## samandhi (Dec 23, 2022)

@o0genesis0o Oh! Almost forgot, congrats on your new shiny! 

Guess you AREN'T the winner of being the last one on here to get them.... Not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing... haha

@Ohmboy Congrats on your new shiny too! Those look terrific... May they bring you much joy over the holidays (and a long time thereafter too)...


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Early impressions of Fiio FF5​
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You’re killing me….


samandhi said:


> There is a reason that the (aging) HD line is still popular in the audiophile community.
> 
> I am just not sure there are any earbuds that can give that sense of space, staging, etc... that you can get from any of the Sennys at this point (except the HD600 and HD650 which are pretty intimate for open backs). This is also a dilemma for me (having the HD700, which are known to be second only to the OG HD800 for how big the presentation is). The FF3 and the Yinman 2.0 600 have come the closest to my ears. The FF5 aren't too far behind where that is concerned (and has better tuning than the FF3) IMHO.
> 
> ...


You’re building my coffin.


fooltoque said:


> Yeah, I also was thinking that this was a limitation of the form factor. I really do find it to be night and day as far as sense of space and laser focus. I have heard that the 560s are one of Sennheiser's best in that regard, unless you want to pay to get into the HD800 territory.
> 
> Thanks for the recommendations! I _have_ considered the Focal line. Unfortunately I haven't been able to try any yet. I know that e-earphones sells the Focal Clear MG Pro, but that seems to be the only one they sell, and I don't recall seeing it on the wall for trying out. Now that I'm seriously thinking of an upgrade I'm probably going to head over there and start seriously listening to what they have.
> 
> BTW, @o0genesis0o I liked your song selection for the FF5, especially Rasputin  This was the song from my current playlist that I thought really stood out with the FF5 compared to other buds. I think it's because the brass sounds too strident on other buds, but the FF5s just perfectly allow them to do their thing on the right while you can really get into that driving beat from the left, with the smokey vocals filling out the center. It brings balance to the whole song.



You’ve measured me for my coffin.


In all seriousness, good on you guys.  This is what I was hoping for, but also what I didn’t want to read.  💸


hongky said:


> This remind me of Viridis
> Anyone can compare FF5 with Viridis ?
> 
> Thanks


I think only @JAnonymous5150 has them both, but I’d be interested as well.


syazwaned said:


> how good is the ff5 imaging? Asking because I can't spend money enough for serratus


Do you own a soldering iron?


----------



## jeejack

Ronion said:


> Do you own a soldering iron?


That's my boy that we all know 🤗


----------



## mt877

o0genesis0o said:


> I have been rocking out with the FF5 for a couple hours. Couldn't stop to measure and write some impressions.


Glad you finally got yours. I knew you would like them.


----------



## o0genesis0o

syazwaned said:


> How holographic is FF5 imaging? it and how far it is from imaging of a headphone (ananda /hd800s ) level?



I don’t have much experience with HD800 and Arya beyond auditioning and A/B for an hour or so. I personally was not too impressed with HD800S. I expected their imaging and soundstage to be out of this world, according to the reviews. However, they are alright. Think of them as a more crisp and precise HD560S. 

The staging of headphone still feels a bit different from earbuds because the drivers are literately away from my ears at an angle. To me, there is a clear sense of that sound comes from outside your head, and expands further into the environment. Meanwhile, with earbuds and open-back IEMs, the source of sound is distinctively inside your head and extends outward to the surrounding environment (thanks to open design). With some songs, earbuds are IEMs completely “disappear”, tricking me into thinking that the sound comes from the room or my phone on the table. 

Anyhow, I guess the point is, nah, these buds don’t sound quite like those big headphones in terms of soundstage, if you listen very closely. But FF5 soundstage expands wide and deep, with great layering. It’s a treat to listen to large orchestral music because FF5 is finally resolving enough to separate and layer the instruments in the large stage that it paints. I’m enjoying Bomsori’s album at I write these. Very goods staging size and accuracy. 



Xicu said:


> Great that you finally received it. Looking forward for the full review. How do they handle EDM compared to FF3?



With balanced foam tips, I think FF5 sounds quite similar to FF3, just crisper in the treble and a bit less boomy in the midbass. I enjoyed coffin dance and Polyphia stuffs with FF5 more than FF3, simply because I like things to be crisp and separated (and because I hate the cable of FF3). I can see people enjoying FF3 more due to its thicker and “rounder” presentation. 



syazwaned said:


> how good is the ff5 imaging? Asking because I can't spend money enough for serratus



Serratus sounds different from FF5 in A/B. FF5 is still a warm and thick sounding buds (despite the added brightness), so the soundstage tends to focus around the center where the bass is usually mixed, without ignoring or hiding the peripheral elements at the sides and back of the stage. Serratus has a light and thin tonality (even with the help of Fiio’s foam and Shanling M6U’s warmth), so the stage feels more transparent and spread out. FF5 feels more like “low brow”, warm, enjoyable sound, whilst Serratus feels more “intellectual”, “academic” sound, if that makes sense to you. 

I don’t think Serratus is 100% better in terms of sheer driver performance, but it does sound sharper due to the tuning. The true resolution leans slightly towards the 300ohm LCP drivers and bass tube in Serratus. I need much closer A/B tests.

But I guess in the end, it does not matter. Both FF5 and Serratus give you top notch listening experience. Just grab a good DAP or amp and one of these, and you will have a good time, without compromising sound quality for not spending multi-kilobuck IEM price.

In fact, I was close to get a Monarch MkII, but the arrival of FF5 and FW5 in my collection (plus the influence of Serratus and JD7) might just make me cancel that decision entirely.


----------



## mt877

Oscarilbo said:


> Thank you. I’ve now had my eyes on the Hidisz AP80 Pro, since as the chart states, it has USB AUDIO OUTPUT, but then reading a bit more I encountered the sent signal its been affected by the volume knob, meaning its variable and not fixed. Wouldn’t that mean its not actually bypassing its internal DAC/AMP?


There is a possibility that the USB port is outputting analog signal or digital volume control is in effect before the digital signal passes out the USB port.

Read is article from the Sound Guys: https://www.soundguys.com/usb-audio-explained-18563/

Part of that article talks about USB C port passing analog signal rather than digital, but there may be certain conditions when that occurs.


----------



## syazwaned

@o0genesis0o @samandhi 

Thank you friend. I have a chord mojo2, i want to use it crossfeed function optimally, hd800 and ananda has pleasant result with crossfeed function, i guess it depends on imaging capability of a headphone.

I have not experience the same result with earbuds yet, but I am still looking for one earbuds with exceptional imaging capability.

This boils down to either serratus or ff5.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> You’re killing me….
> 
> *You’re building my coffin.*
> 
> ...


Didn't I tell you that I am also good with working with my hands?   

I totally get it.


----------



## samandhi

syazwaned said:


> @o0genesis0o @samandhi
> 
> Thank you friend. I have a chord mojo2, i want to use it crossfeed function optimally, hd800 and ananda has pleasant result with crossfeed function, i guess it depends on imaging capability of a headphone.
> 
> ...


I have not experimented with crossfeed to this point, but seeing your experience with the HD800, I may just give it a shot. Not sure why I haven't thought of that before, having the HD700 and all.


----------



## drewbadour

o0genesis0o said:


> With balanced foam tips, I think FF5 sounds quite similar to FF3, just crisper in the treble and a bit less boomy in the midbass.


Similar impressions here!

Ff5 has been the most listened to bud in my stable hands down since getting it a couple weeks ago - basically permanently attached to my utws5 now haha


----------



## samandhi (Dec 24, 2022)

drewbadour said:


> Similar impressions here!
> 
> Ff5 has been the most listened to bud in my stable hands down since getting it a couple weeks ago - basically permanently attached to my utws5 now haha


When I first ordered these, I was very nervous about my purchase with the description from FiiO, and that @JAnonymous5150 just thought they were solid, but nothing special. I am so very glad I stuck with the order rather than cancelling it.

Having said that, I don't think I could have cancelled the order even if I wanted to. FiiO shipped them almost immediately after ordering them. 

These have been my "go-to" set since getting them (even over the Yinmans) for wearing at work (in boiler rooms, mechanical rooms, and lots of general walking). Besides the sound being so good, they are just more convenient in almost every way than the Yinmans and certainly the (very stiff cabled) FF3. The only issue I have with them while working and moving around is that they tend to fall out of my ears easier than the Yinman, and certainly the FF3 (those things just don't budge at all), but the comfort, weight (or lack thereof), and other conveniences make up for it in spades IMO. 

Of course, I think the (falling out) issue can be alleviated by using a smaller, lighter cable. The cable is really good (though a tad stiff) but since the buds are so very light, it really needed a lighter and softer cable to go with them. The weight of the cable when it swings as you move is (in large part) what helps dislodge the buds.

Great idea hooking them to your UTWS5! I thought about getting a set of those, but I couldn't get them for a really long time (they weren't available for some reason), and I finally lost interest... hehe


----------



## Oscarilbo

mt877 said:


> There is a possibility that the USB port is outputting analog signal or digital volume control is in effect before the digital signal passes out the USB port.
> 
> Read is article from the Sound Guys: https://www.soundguys.com/usb-audio-explained-18563/
> 
> Part of that article talks about USB C port passing analog signal rather than digital, but there may be certain conditions when that occurs.


Thank you. That’s a pretty interesting read. The thing here is that If DAPs like the Hidisz AP80 were sending analog signal, then external DACs wouldn’t be able to read it, but I’ve read that some users do use the AP80 as a source connected to external DAC. So my guess is that in this particular case it is sending digital signal.


----------



## dsonance (Dec 24, 2022)

hongky said:


> This remind me of Viridis
> Anyone can compare FF5 with Viridis ?
> 
> Thanks





Ronion said:


> I think only @JAnonymous5150 has them both, but I’d be interested as well.


I do have both at the moment, although I would gladly sell my Viridis, if anyone is interested.

I think @JAnonymous5150 would do a much better job explaining the difference (and with much more appreciation for the Viridis ), but I can say that the Viridis and the FF5 have very little in common in terms of the tuning, and the overall feeling they create. The FF5 is very well balanced across the entire frequency range, with healthy bass and great mids and highs. I don't feel anything is missing from a track when I'm listening to it out of the FF5 - there's a kind of "fullness of expression" to it, if that makes sense. It also leans slightly warm. The Viridis, on the  other hand, really lacks bass (just how severely depends on one's bass sensibilities, I guess), and leans bright. The result is that most tracks, to me, sound like they were put through a filter, stripped of a part of their nature, and transformed to emphasize the mids and the highs - an admittedly interesting and sometimes beautiful effect, but not something that works equally well for everything and everyone.

The soundstage is quite large on both, but I feel that I can't fairly compare them, because the problems I had with getting the right fit for the Viridis led me to a setup that seems to reduce its stage somewhat. I also don't feel qualified to compare the resolution, although it sounds pretty good to me on both.


----------



## fooltoque

drewbadour said:


> Similar impressions here!
> 
> Ff5 has been the most listened to bud in my stable hands down since getting it a couple weeks ago - basically permanently attached to my utws5 now haha



UTWS5 is on the way.


----------



## Ronion (Dec 24, 2022)

drewbadour said:


> Similar impressions here!
> 
> Ff5 has been the most listened to bud in my stable hands down since getting it a couple weeks ago - basically permanently attached to my utws5 now haha


You are just as bad as those guys and likely sold them the wood for my coffin.

When you look at @o0genesis0o 's graph, you may think the ff5 would be just as dark sounding, but if it's true what his experience and the consensus seems to be--that the FF5 is more resolving than the FF3--then this experience with tuning would match my own.  I tune my more resolving buds with a little less pinna gain (usually around 2 dB) than my less resolving buds.  It helps them sound more balanced.  Maybe that's why FiiO chose the 'female poison' moniker?  IOW due to the resolution.  I think higher resolution causes you to pay more attention to high frequency content and thus the sound balance seems brighter than it measures.  I certainly could be totally wrong, but I have a fair bit of experience tuning buds now and this has been an observation that holds up over time.

BTW, I've been saying that the FF3 isn't the most resolving from the get go, but it is pretty darn resolving for a low impedance bud.  I've only heard a couple (low impedance drivers/buds) on its level so I'd say it's above average in its class.   All this makes me think that the FF5 is indeed a fairly special bud even if it doesn't get to the level of a 300 Ohm bud.  I personally have a hard time believing that it does (can) while having faith in my brethren that they are not entirely mad in thinking that it might.   Finding the best possible cable for it might present an interesting challenge.  I might be inclined to build my own.


----------



## samandhi

dsonance said:


> I do have both at the moment, although I would gladly sell my Viridis, if anyone is interested.
> 
> I think @JAnonymous5150 would do a much better job explaining the difference (and with much more appreciation for the Viridis ), but I can say that the Viridis and the FF5 have very little in common in terms of the tuning, and the overall feeling they create. The FF5 is very well balanced across the entire frequency range, with healthy bass and great mids and highs. I don't feel anything is missing from a track when I'm listening to it out of the FF5 - there's a kind of "fullness of expression" to it, if that makes sense. It also leans slightly warm. The Viridis, on the  other hand, really lacks bass (just how severely depends on one's bass sensibilities, I guess), and leans bright. The result is that most tracks, to me, sound like they were put through a filter, stripped of a part of their nature, and transformed to emphasize the mids and the highs - an admittedly interesting and sometimes beautiful effect, but not something that works equally well for everything and everyone.
> 
> The soundstage is quite large on both, but I feel that I can't fairly compare them, because the problems I had with getting the right fit for the Viridis led me to a setup that seems to reduce its stage somewhat. I also don't feel qualified to compare the resolution, although it sounds pretty good to me on both.


I think you did a "bang-up-job" in describing the comparison between the two all by yourself.  To me it isn't all about the "lingo" that makes the difference. It is about conveying your thoughts in such a way that others will understand (as best they can by only reading words), and I think you have achieved that very nicely. At least I (think I) understand what you are talking about. 


Ronion said:


> You are just as bad as those guys and likely sold them the wood for my coffin.
> 
> When you look at @o0genesis0o 's graph, you may think the ff5 would be just as dark sounding, but if it's true what his experience and the consensus seems to be--that the FF5 is more resolving than the FF3--then this experience with tuning would match my own.  I tune my more resolving buds with a little less pinna gain (usually around 2 dB) than my less resolving buds.  It helps them sound more balanced.  Maybe that's why FiiO chose the 'female poison' moniker?  IOW due to the resolution.  I think higher resolution causes you to pay more attention to high frequency content and thus the sound balance seems brighter than it measures.  I certainly could be totally wrong, but I have a fair bit of experience tuning buds now and this has been an observation that holds up over time.
> 
> BTW, I've been saying that the FF3 isn't the most resolving from the get go, but it is pretty darn resolving for a low impedance bud.  I've only heard a couple (low impedance drivers/buds) on its level so I'd say it's above average in its class.   All this makes me think that the FF5 is indeed a fairly special bud even if it doesn't get to the level of a 300 Ohm bud.  I personally have a hard time believing that it does (can) while having faith in my brethren that they are not entirely mad in thinking that it might.   Finding the best possible cable for it might present an interesting challenge.  I might be inclined to build my own.


The FF5 are definitely more resolving than the FF3. I even find the bass better (for my tastes anyhow) also. I like to think of the way they are tuned as the best way to get the resolution they were after. Most companies rely too much on the illusion of clarity/resolution that a boosted pina gain will give, and give a generic tuning to the treble; or even reduce it so that it isn't heard as much. I'm guessing that most times it is because they might not be happy with the result of their own venture in treble tuning. I have read that a DD can be REALLY tricky to tune the treble section (especially) properly, that is. Either way, with the FF5 I feel the pina gain is reduced to a normal level, and tuning the treble section properly simply sounds more "elite" to my ears, or at the very least makes the rest of the curve more natural (adding second harmonics to snares, strings, pianos, etc...) or as you said, balanced. 

And I think you are right, that it DOES make one pay attention to the upper frequencies more, which in turn sort of teaches you "critical listening" skills (IMO). And of course, I hate to sound snobby but, once you have learned critical listening skills, it is VERY hard to go back and listen to "crap". It might take weeks of exclusive listening for it to become "OK" again...  It is my belief that this is why a lot of the "elite" reviewers (for instance) give bad reviews to anything that isn't high end (and I mean in sound not cost). They may come across as snobby, but they are simply used to listening to "better" sound. Not that I agree with this necessarily. I think those people need to spend more time than they do with said head gear to be totally fair. 

This BTW, is another reason why I like @o0genesis0o's reviews because (I believe) he gives everything at least a fair chance by getting his ears/brain used to the sound that he is trying to describe before making any snap judgements (whether the likes them or not). 

Yessir, you HAVE been saying that since the beginning. But I have to say that the FF5 are VERY resolving for a low ohm bud. I would put them up there with the 300's and 600's of the earbud world. I can appreciate the engineering that must have went into these to make them that way, because I would normally say that there is no way to get as close as they do in this realm. 

Having said that the comparison is much like talking about multi-driver IEMs and single driver IEMs. Yes, the multi-driver IEMs will naturally be easier to make sound good, and the single driver will need to have a lot of work put into it, but we all know there are some really fantastic single driver IEMs that sound simply sublime and better than a lot of multi-drivers ones. So, bottom line is that I think it IS achievable but only through some pretty hard work and engineering (IMO).

I think FiiO has done just that IMHO >>> End of Line


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> BTW, I've been saying that the FF3 isn't the most resolving from the get go, but it is pretty darn resolving for a low impedance bud. I've only heard a couple (low impedance drivers/buds) on its level so I'd say it's above average in its class. All this makes me think that the FF5 is indeed a fairly special bud even if it doesn't get to the level of a 300 Ohm bud. I personally have a hard time believing that it does (can) while having faith in my brethren that they are not entirely mad in thinking that it might. Finding the best possible cable for it might present an interesting challenge. I might be inclined to build my own.



I do think that Serratus (300ohm) has a higher sheer resolution than FF5. Serratus is easily in the TOTL level, whilst FF5 hangs some where between good (4/5) and very good (4.5). Still, both are satisfying on this resolution front that I don’t consider this aspect as a deciding factor.



samandhi said:


> They may come across as snobby, but they are simply used to listening to "better" sound. Not that I agree with this necessarily. I think those people need to spend more time than they do with said head gear to be totally fair.



I agree that there is an expectation. Some IEMs make me feel “lacking” that I don’t want to listen to. If it is something that I need to review, then, by obligation to both the manufacturer who sends me sample and the readers, I need to gather evidence for my complaint. 



samandhi said:


> Yessir, you HAVE been saying that since the beginning. But I have to say that the FF5 are VERY resolving for a low ohm bud. I would put them up there with the 300's and 600's of the earbud world. I can appreciate the engineering that must have went into these to make them that way, because I would normally say that there is no way to get as close as they do in this realm.



Yeah, I think the engineering put into these are beyond the usual level (foam here, filter there, tubes, etc.) QC is also impressive, given the channel matching (unless Fiio cherry picks a unit for me, which is unlikely since I’m just a nobody)


----------



## syazwaned

o0genesis0o said:


> I do think that Serratus (300ohm) has a higher sheer resolution than FF5. Serratus is easily in the TOTL level, whilst FF5 hangs some where between good (4/5) and very good (4.5). Still, both are satisfying on this resolution front that I don’t consider this aspect as a deciding factor.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


in terms of imaging, how is serratus compared with Blessing 2?


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> These have been my "go-to" set since getting them (even over the Yinmans) for wearing at work (in boiler rooms, mechanical rooms, and lots of general walking). Besides the sound being so good, they are just more convenient in almost every way than the Yinmans and certainly the (very stiff cabled) FF3. The only issue I have with them while working and moving around is that they tend to fall out of my ears easier than the Yinman, and certainly the FF3 (those things just don't budge at all), but the comfort, weight (or lack thereof), and other conveniences make up for it in spades IMO.
> 
> Of course, I think the (falling out) issue can be alleviated by using a smaller, lighter cable. The cable is really good (though a tad stiff) but since the buds are so very light, it really needed a lighter and softer cable to go with them. The weight of the cable when it swings as you move is (in large part) what helps dislodge the buds.


Re: The falling out issue. I think it has to do with the 'bulbous' shape of the backside of the FF5. I have other buds that have the similar diameter but not bulbous. They fit fine and stay in. The FF5 fit my right ear fine, the left side sometimes slip and I have to reposition them. I haven't had them fall out. I think FiiO's own admission that there could be some fit issues is that they provided the silicone rings up front and say that the rings can help with a secure fit. I might try a ring over the foam and see if the fit is better. Hopefully it won't make the diameter too big.


----------



## mt877 (Dec 24, 2022)

Oscarilbo said:


> Thank you. That’s a pretty interesting read. The thing here is that If DAPs like the Hidisz AP80 were sending analog signal, then external DACs wouldn’t be able to read it, but I’ve read that some users do use the AP80 as a source connected to external DAC. So my guess is that in this particular case it is sending digital signal.


It's not that a source is only sending out analog from the USB. The main point is that USB does not always send out digital only. If both source and receiving unit switch to this 'aux' transmission mode as mentioned in the article then analog out might happen and that could be a situation where volume control at the source is working. The volume control working at the source was your main concern in a different post, that's all.


----------



## Ohmboy

Lets see how this audio spaghetti ends up 🤷‍♂️


----------



## qua2k

FF5 owners, I am curious about fit. Does it fit the same as the FF3? I remember some saying the FF3 was loose, wondering if the 5 is the same.


----------



## dsonance

qua2k said:


> FF5 owners, I am curious about fit. Does it fit the same as the FF3? I remember some saying the FF3 was loose, wondering if the 5 is the same.


I am having more trouble keeping the FF5 in my ears than the FF3. Especially on the left side, for some reason. I haven't tried the included silicon rings yet, though.


----------



## samandhi

qua2k said:


> FF5 owners, I am curious about fit. Does it fit the same as the FF3? I remember some saying the FF3 was loose, wondering if the 5 is the same.


The way they fit is very much like the FF3 (to me) in that they fit really well in my ears. Even though the FF3 are much heavier (in comparison) they actually stay in my ears without fail, unless the cable gets caught on something and tugs at them. At that point only the over ear variant of a cable could save the head gear from coming out. 

So, the FF5 falling out of my ears (or generally not staying put) isn't what I would consider due to fit because when I put them in my ears, they feel much like the FF3 do (which is to say very comfortable) and do feel very stable while not moving around. As mentioned in an earlier post, I belive the cable is just too heavy for the contrasting light weight of the drivers. But @mt877 could be on to something also with their bulbous shape.

Bottom line is that the FF5 actually fit very well (for me), they just don't always stay put. YMMV as all of our ears are totally different in some way or another.


----------



## mt877 (Dec 24, 2022)

Here's a pic of FF3 vs FF5 shape. Both are bulbous and actually other buds I have are generally bulbous shaped, but not like the FF5. The FF5 have a more rounded profile which make them not fit as well in the Tragus - Antitragus pocket. I looked at my ears and found the Antitragus on my left ear is slightly looser than my right ear, so that would explain why the FF5 slips out of position in my left ear. The FF3 are solid, they don't move or slip at all. As @samandhi mentioned, the cable weight could be contributing to the overall slip or looseness as well. I'm gonna try a lighter cable and see if that makes a difference for my left ear.






Ear anatomy illustration:


----------



## mt877

dsonance said:


> I am having more trouble keeping the FF5 in my ears than the FF3. Especially on the left side, for some reason. I haven't tried the included silicon rings yet, though.


Look at your ears, most likely not 100% symetrical. I mentioned my issue in the above post, might be the cause of your problem as well?


----------



## o0genesis0o

syazwaned said:


> in terms of imaging, how is serratus compared with Blessing 2?


There is no comparison. Serratus is wider, deeper, and more open, thus more pin point accuracy in imaging as well. Even with my desktop DAC/amp, Blessing 2 does not get much depth and layering.


----------



## o0genesis0o

mt877 said:


> Here's a pic of FF3 vs FF5 shape. Both are bulbous and actually other buds I have are generally bulbous shaped, but not like the FF5. The FF5 have a more rounded profile which make them not fit as well in the Tragus - Antitragus pocket. I looked at my ears and found the Antitragus on my left ear is slightly looser than my right ear, so that would explain why the FF5 slips out of position in my left ear. The FF3 are solid, they don't move or slip at all. As @samandhi mentioned, the cable weight could be contributing to the overall slip or looseness as well. I'm gonna try a lighter cable and see if that makes a difference for my left ear.
> 
> 
> 
> Ear anatomy illustration:


I think the cable is a bit too heavy. For me, the fit was right until I stood up with the DAP in my pants pocket. The earbuds did not fall out, but I can feel the pressure pulling them out from the cable. To me, it’s no different from FF3.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> I think the cable is a bit too heavy. For me, the fit was right until I stood up with the DAP in my pants pocket. The earbuds did not fall out, but I can feel the pressure pulling them out from the cable. To me, it’s no different from FF3.


LOL I suppose I could have saved a whole lot of (digital) paper and wrote just what you said... Nice!


----------



## o0genesis0o

The cable of FF5 looks expensive though. Slap a fancy logo on it and say that “lot’s of R&D has been done”, and you can sell for big money. 

With that being said, I want to try some of those effect audio cables to see how they are in real life. Not keen to review cables, though.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> I think you did a "bang-up-job" in describing the comparison between the two all by yourself.  To me it isn't all about the "lingo" that makes the difference. It is about conveying your thoughts in such a way that others will understand (as best they can by only reading words), and I think you have achieved that very nicely. At least I (think I) understand what you are talking about.
> 
> The FF5 are definitely more resolving than the FF3. I even find the bass better (for my tastes anyhow) also. I like to think of the way they are tuned as the best way to get the resolution they were after. Most companies rely too much on the illusion of clarity/resolution that a boosted pina gain will give, and give a generic tuning to the treble; or even reduce it so that it isn't heard as much. I'm guessing that most times it is because they might not be happy with the result of their own venture in treble tuning. I have read that a DD can be REALLY tricky to tune the treble section (especially) properly, that is. Either way, with the FF5 I feel the pina gain is reduced to a normal level, and tuning the treble section properly simply sounds more "elite" to my ears, or at the very least makes the rest of the curve more natural (adding second harmonics to snares, strings, pianos, etc...) or as you said, balanced.
> 
> ...


Now you're lowering my body


o0genesis0o said:


> I do think that Serratus (300ohm) has a higher sheer resolution than FF5. Serratus is easily in the TOTL level, whilst FF5 hangs some where between good (4/5) and very good (4.5). Still, both are satisfying on this resolution front that I don’t consider this aspect as a deciding factor.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And you've got the shovel ready......... I'm not sure who I'm pinning this one on, but I'm not taking fall.    I'm going to sell off a bunch of stuff to make room for these.  I need them in my collection it sounds like.  I thought so when I saw the tuning, but I was worried that they wouldn't be special enough to purchase.  I own a lot of incredible buds and I don't need anything mediocre in my collection.  Like @samandhi says 'once you hear high resolution, there's no going back'.


----------



## ttorbic

Ronion said:


> Now you're lowering my body
> 
> And you've got the shovel ready......... I'm not sure who I'm pinning this one on, but I'm not taking fall.    I'm going to sell off a bunch of stuff to make room for these.  I need them in my collection it sounds like.  I thought so when I saw the tuning, but I was worried that they wouldn't be special enough to purchase.  I own a lot of incredible buds and I don't need anything mediocre in my collection.  Like @samandhi says 'once you hear high resolution, there's no going back'.


Who's delivering the eulogy 😂😂 I'm quite fortunate for not being tempted by Fiio products, otherwise I'll be a poor man 😅


----------



## o0genesis0o

ttorbic said:


> Who's delivering the eulogy 😂😂 I'm quite fortunate for not being tempted by Fiio products, otherwise I'll be a poor man 😅


Fiio just got competitive this year, IMHO. Their line up last year (is it last year?) like FD7, FA7s, and the likes are quite meh. In fact, I doubt that the younger generation of nitpicky reviewers would ever like Fiio stuffs. They are “the establishment” rather than “underdogs” like some emerging Chi-Fi companies and boutiques, and people tend to root for underdogs.

That reminds me, I need to chase them about a software bug in the sample unit they sent me.


----------



## KokushiTsumo

Planar buds!


----------



## mt877

o0genesis0o said:


> I think the cable is a bit too heavy. For me, the fit was right until I stood up with the DAP in my pants pocket. The earbuds did not fall out, but I can feel the pressure pulling them out from the cable. To me, it’s no different from FF3.





samandhi said:


> LOL I suppose I could have saved a whole lot of (digital) paper and wrote just what you said... Nice!


I tried a feather weight cable vs the original cable, both hanging straight down toward the floor. The bottom of the FF5 stems cant inward with either cable and the left bud gets loose. I know the reason why the left gets loose, it's partly due to my left ear anatomy. When I put in the FF5 without a cable, they are solid. I can shake my head around without them getting loose. I think the key is that the bottom of the stems get canted inward which upsets the stability of the fit.


----------



## mt877

KokushiTsumo said:


> Planar buds!


One of the lucky few to buy a pair from @ClieOS... Congrats on your new toy.


----------



## KokushiTsumo

mt877 said:


> One of the lucky few to buy a pair from @ClieOS... Congrats on your new toy.


These and the TGXear Serratus...Spoiled for choice would be putting it lightly!


----------



## baskingshark

o0genesis0o said:


> With that being said, I want to try some of those effect audio cables to see how they are in real life. Not keen to review cables, though.



Haha cables changing sound signature is a huge source of flame wars on forums, best not be dying on this hill for this LOL.

I respect both camps for sure - cable detractors who say they can't measure or hear differences, and cable proponents who say it changes the sound signature for the better. Well actually on thinking about it, you might save lots of money if one can't hear any differences with cables. And for cable believers, it is one additional toy along the audio chain to play with to achieve audio nirvana.


FWIW, I own some cables costing around $200 - 300 USD, and have auditioned a few kilobuck cables. I have never been able to measure differences for cables on my graphing rig. But some cables do vary with resistance on multimeters, perhaps some cables are so badly designed that the high impedance can skew the sound, especially for sensitive multi BA types?

Personally, considering the cost of a cable compared to eartips/foams, I think that cables are the last area in the source chain I would invest in. Just my 2 cents, I would rather invest in the following order for biggest returns: transducer (IEM/earbud) -> eartips/foams -> amplifier -> source file (eg FLAC versus 192 mp3) -> DAC -> cable last.

Eartips/foams are much much cheaper (and do have measurable and sonic differences), upgrading a source (DAC/AMP) is kind of a one-off investment to future proof your hobby for a few years, and upgrading the transducer itself gives quite hearable differences (well unless you are talking about upgrading to TOTL which has mega diminishing returns). So in the big scheme of things, upgrading to some of these kilobuck cables are not too cost effective in my view, and I definitely won't pair a cable that costs more than the transducer.

I wrote this in another thread, but one audiophile I know locally, uses a $1000 cable from Effect Audio with his $20 BLON BL-03. He says it makes the sound "richer". Well I am happy for him, and I respect our cable believer friends, we all hear differently, and definitely if he hears differences with cables, why not chase this area of sonic improvement?

Though, @o0genesis0o reviewing kilobuck cables is another big can of worms. Unlike measurements of FR for IEMs on graphs, it is gonna be quite hard to objectively compare cables for readers?


----------



## o0genesis0o

baskingshark said:


> Haha cables changing sound signature is a huge source of flame wars on forums, best not be dying on this hill for this LOL.
> 
> I respect both camps for sure - cable detractors who say they can't measure or hear differences, and cable proponents who say it changes the sound signature for the better. Well actually on thinking about it, you might save lots of money if one can't hear any differences with cables. And for cable believers, it is one additional toy along the audio chain to play with to achieve audio nirvana.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I’m not interested in reviewing cable, but I do want to touch the EA cable to see how they feel. I’m looking for something to replace the stock cable of Andromeda, and boy it was eye opening. The cheap cable from XINHS doesn’t sound quite like the stock ALO cable at all. Highly doubt other IEMs are that picky.

My stance is that if the difference requires a lot of ear twisting to hear; it’s not significant enough, and others might not hear it.

Anyhow, back to the topic, I continue to enjoy FF5. Such an enjoyable piece of kit. They work quite well with the Fiio K7 DAC amp, though they sound okay with everything. I still think that the tuning is not high brow like Serratus but still natural and enjoyable. If I want to match Serratus, I’ll use the silicone rings.


----------



## Ronion

ttorbic said:


> Who's delivering the eulogy 😂😂 I'm quite fortunate for not being tempted by Fiio products, otherwise I'll be a poor man 😅


I think that would be @FranQL.  He will read *Dame la Mano* in its native tongue.


KokushiTsumo said:


> Planar buds!


C'mon man, spill the beans!  How does it sound?


----------



## Ronion

Oh, for you FF3 owners: I've been wearing them all day and I think I finally found the perfect foam for them.  I'm doing the cold weather mod with nothing but VE thin and VE thin donuts.  Now they are a very reference-type sound with deep bass, a nice pinna gain and as extended as I've heard their treble.  If you just stick with one layer of thins, the bass weight drops off too much but it still works for some music.  I hear no detriment by added the VE thin donut on top.


----------



## chinmie

baskingshark said:


> Haha cables changing sound signature is a huge source of flame wars on forums, best not be dying on this hill for this LOL.
> 
> I respect both camps for sure - cable detractors who say they can't measure or hear differences, and cable proponents who say it changes the sound signature for the better. Well actually on thinking about it, you might save lots of money if one can't hear any differences with cables. And for cable believers, it is one additional toy along the audio chain to play with to achieve audio nirvana.
> 
> ...



On headphones though, me and my friends did some test (not a scientific/measured test, just swapping cables and note the differences, if any). We don't say anything after all of us tried them, and then say our thoughts and see if they match... And they did match. It was those differences that were really audible (albeit small differences) and everyone says the same thing about the sound change

It's interesting find, though i personally won't be buying cables like my friends do... They would invest hundreds of dollars on a single cable.. Not to mention the size of those things... I'd stick to thin cables  anytime i could. 

On IEMs though... Its a toss up. I mostly don't hear the differences, and if i did find some, it was small and negligible that i don't care much.


----------



## fooltoque

chinmie said:


> On headphones though, me and my friends did some test (not a scientific/measured test, just swapping cables and note the differences, if any). We don't say anything after all of us tried them, and then say our thoughts and see if they match... And they did match. It was those differences that were really audible (albeit small differences) and everyone says the same thing about the sound change
> 
> It's interesting find, though i personally won't be buying cables like my friends do... They would invest hundreds of dollars on a single cable.. Not to mention the size of those things... I'd stick to thin cables  anytime i could.
> 
> On IEMs though... Its a toss up. I mostly don't hear the differences, and if i did find some, it was small and negligible that i don't care much.


I am not saying that there aren't any differences, but I haven't tried to hear any differences cable wise. I just work on the assumption that I won't hear the differences. So for cables I just want to make sure there are no microphonics, and the cables are flexible, light, and above all cool looking. Cool looking cables are the best accessory.


----------



## chinmie

fooltoque said:


> I am not saying that there aren't any differences, but I haven't tried to hear any differences cable wise. I just work on the assumption that I won't hear the differences. So for cables I just want to make sure there are no microphonics, and the cables are flexible, light, and above all cool looking. Cool looking cables are the best accessory.



I agree, those are also how i would make purchase decisions on cables. Sound difference would be the last thing on my list


----------



## samandhi

Spoiler: @Ronion






Ronion said:


> Now you're lowering my body
> 
> And you've got the shovel ready......... I'm not sure who I'm pinning this one on, but I'm not taking fall.    I'm going to sell off a bunch of stuff to make room for these.  I need them in my collection it sounds like.  I thought so when I saw the tuning, but I was worried that they wouldn't be special enough to purchase.  I own a lot of incredible buds and I don't need anything mediocre in my collection.  Like @samandhi says 'once you hear high resolution, there's no going back'.


In other words, we will just wait to hear your impressions once you get them?!   





Spoiler: @KokushiTsumo






KokushiTsumo said:


> Planar buds!


Congrats on your new shiny!  They look terrific.





Spoiler: @mt877






mt877 said:


> I tried a feather weight cable vs the original cable, both hanging straight down toward the floor. The bottom of the FF5 stems cant inward with either cable and the left bud gets loose. I know the reason why the left gets loose, it's partly due to my left ear anatomy. When I put in the FF5 without a cable, they are solid. I can shake my head around without them getting loose. I think the key is that the bottom of the stems get canted inward which upsets the stability of the fit.


Thanks for doing that research. 





Spoiler: @baskingshark






baskingshark said:


> Haha cables changing sound signature is a huge source of flame wars on forums, best not be dying on this hill for this LOL.
> 
> I respect both camps for sure - cable detractors who say they can't measure or hear differences, and cable proponents who say it changes the sound signature for the better. Well actually on thinking about it, you might save lots of money if one can't hear any differences with cables. And for cable believers, it is one additional toy along the audio chain to play with to achieve audio nirvana.
> 
> ...


I would just like to add that I am (now) a believer in different cables having different sounds, though I don't necessarily believe in expensive cables being better just because of the price tag. I think you can have a really good cable for decent prices. I didn't used to be a believer though. It only started back when I bought the Audiosense T800 8 (all) BA IEMs. And then I think it was because it was a bigger change than just "subtle".

Having said that, I don't believe that there is some voodoo happening here. I simply believe that the difference in cable resistance, conductivity (and capacitance), and the conductive material it is made of are what shape the sound differently. It is my belief that it is often chided as "voodoo" by non-believers because of the fact that the change isn't measurable.

It is also my belief that the reason it isn't measurable is because it doesn't actually change the FR curve. Instead, I offer an example of something that we can all agree does make a difference in the sound in a non-measurable way. Take output impedance of a DAP or amplifier as that example. You can definitely affect the sound of head gear by changing this value as we all know from recent discussions. Or if your transducer is under damped (low power with higher ohm gear) your ears usually hear it very well, but it isn't necessarily measurable (as another example).

Essentially when you buy a cheaply made cable (not necessarily cheaper pricewise), it either has a higher resistance rating (or capacitance) or is made from impure alloys (that have a lower conductivity). These are non-measurable things, but they DO affect the sound (to my ears). It doesn't affect the FR curve, but more like the purity of the sound potential of the transducer. This might be akin to switching out amplifiers using the same head gear. It will sound different but may not affect the FR curve here either.

Having said that, if you have pure alloys and low resistance numbers, you will only get 4 different sounds (and those can be very subtle). Copper seemingly blunts the treble a bit, making bass stand out more; probably because it is the weakest conductor, and since treble has a lower energy level than bass, it acts like a filter of sorts. This would be much like having a treble filter in your IEM. Silver tends to give the impression of having more airy treble, and tighter but less quantity of bass. This has the best conductivity, so should sound the most pure (the potential or intended sound of the transducer, although in some cases we all know some manufacturers do this on purpose to "tune" the head gear to their desired sound). SPC is somewhere in the middle (having both copper and silver). Graphene (the newest kid on the block) is somewhere in the middle of SPC and silver. It actually has a better conductivity than silver, but it is not able to be used by itself. It must be impregnated into either silver or copper (usually silver). They CAN impregnate Kevlar with graphene in order to use it by itself, but the process is still very expensive, and you will only (most likely) see this for full sized (and expensive) headphones.

I don't believe these to be night and day differences because of the alloy used, but I notice (on some head gear), it is simply because of better or worse conductivity IMO.

So really the whole cable "sound change" thing is all about electrical circuitry and nothing more. Get the best (cheap) cable that has good resistance, conductivity, and capacitance in the flavor of alloy you like best, and you will get the most pure sound of the drivers that is possible to get. Otherwise, use cables to fine tune the sound a tad bit to your preferred overall sound.

Having (exhaustively) said all that. Most times people without (or with little) critical listening skills will not even notice this difference. Much like some people would never notice that a higher ohm driver is being under damped (muddy bass, blunted highs, lack of separation, etc...).





Spoiler: @Ronion






Ronion said:


> Oh, for you FF3 owners: I've been wearing them all day and I think I finally found the perfect foam for them.  I'm doing the cold weather mod with nothing but VE thin and VE thin donuts.  Now they are a very reference-type sound with deep bass, a nice pinna gain and as extended as I've heard their treble.  If you just stick with one layer of thins, the bass weight drops off too much but it still works for some music.  I hear no detriment by added the VE thin donut on top.


I wish it was that easy for me with these. Unfortunately, with anything less than the balanced foams on them, they are a bit hot in the ear gain region for my ears. And even WITH the balanced foams they can sometimes get too hot. But using the bass foams tends to blunt the treble too much for my taste.




P.S. *I hope everyone has a happy holiday! *


----------



## samandhi

Nothing says "tis the season" like this song on the FF5 with the DX300 Amp12 4.4mm balanced out:

Jim Morrison on steroids


----------



## Carpet

fooltoque said:


> I am not saying that there aren't any differences, but I haven't tried to hear any differences cable wise. I just work on the assumption that I won't hear the differences. So for cables I just want to make sure there are no microphonics, and the cables are flexible, light, and above all cool looking. Cool looking cables are the best accessory.


I place a high value on utility too. Splitters that catch on clothes, ear hooks that pull IEMs out of your ears or are uncomfortable when worn with glasses (or masks). Handling that seems to aspire to forming a bloody birds nest every time you put them away. All of these are things I seek to avoid with cables!


----------



## KokushiTsumo

Ronion said:


> I think that would be @FranQL.  He will read *Dame la Mano* in its native tongue.
> 
> C'mon man, spill the beans!  How does it sound?


As expected, amazing. Easily holds its own against the Serratus. I'd describe it as an (even more) detailed and warmer Serratus, both sound absolutely TOTL. The Serratus is still tuned more to my liking but ClieOS really outdid himself with this one.



Spoiler: Impressions



Insanely detailed (even more so than the Serratus), warmer sounding, soundstage is a bit narrower, less air. They make up for it with their resolving power, they're probably the most resolving transducer I own. Relatively easy to drive (20-25/100 off of the VE Megatron using the SE 3.5 output). The tuning is (like ClieOS said) reminiscent of the ER4XR albeit with less 3k gain (which made the ER4 series annoying to use for me). I'll probably write a full review for these, for now I'm just enjoying them as is


----------



## syazwaned

KokushiTsumo said:


> As expected, amazing. Easily holds its own against the Serratus. I'd describe it as an (even more) detailed and warmer Serratus, both sound absolutely TOTL. The Serratus is still tuned more to my liking but ClieOS really outdid himself with this one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


and cheaper too!


----------



## KokushiTsumo

syazwaned said:


> and cheaper too!


Yep, it's a shame he only made around 5 of them.
Would've been a seriously nice option for people interested in DIY earbuds.


----------



## Ronion (Dec 25, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Spoiler: @Ronion
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm sure I'll give a detailed impression LOL.

I'm sure the pinna gain like this would be a bit too much for you--it's a bit too much for me.  With this mod, it sounds more like, but not as bright as a lot of flavor of the month IEMs.  I'm sure the pinna gain is actually too high like this.  The graphs I made with my own ears basically say that my pinna gain should be 7-8dB up from 1kHz which just happens to be what sounds best to my ears as well--though I tune drivers with extreme clarity more like 6dB.  I haven't measured this cold weather mod yet, but I'm betting it's closer to 10--which seems to be what a lot of folks like and I still find tolerable.  The nice thing about this is that enough treble gets through for me and the bass isn't so extreme.  In fact the bass gets really quick and retains its depth.  I should measure it today to see what's really going on.  Even the balanced foams initially measured a bit hot in my rig.  Not by much though and if you put them in deep and tight, I'd bet they don't.  I'm sure that in a week they wouldn't.  I should add that even though I went out all day yesterday, I never had to adjust the ff3.  I got in and out of the car several times, shopped in several stores, etc...  No issues.  My ears are like that with the MX500 shell now too.  I used to have a terrible time with them in my right ear.  Somehow I think I've Octamomed my tragus/antitragus.

My experience agrees with yours on conductors as well.  I've also heard palladium conductors which were a whole different experience.  I'll deny it if asked.  

Happy Holidays everyone!


----------



## 4ceratops

I wish everyone a Merry Christmas. I would like to ask if anyone here has experience with the RY4S mmcx 300 Ohm and if they would be willing to share a few words about it. Thanks for your willingness.


----------



## Ronion (Dec 25, 2022)

4ceratops said:


> I wish everyone a Merry Christmas. I would like to ask if anyone here has experience with the RY4S mmcx 300 Ohm and if they would be willing to share a few words about it. Thanks for your willingness.


I have a lot of experience with the driver and it's the most separation and composure you can get for the money.  I don't know their tuning however.

With a tight fit, I'm only getting 9dB of pinna gain.  It does have the treble notch in the right spot.




Loose fit=less bass, more pinna:


----------



## o0genesis0o

I continue to enjoy the Fiio FF5. Today, I listen to "Six Evolutions - Bach: Cello Suites" performed by Yo-Yo Ma and do a quick A/B between FF5 and Serratus. For these particular tracks, I needed to twist my ears hard to hear any difference in resolution, and I found very little, if not none. The signature rumble "brrrrm" sound of cello strings from FF3 is back with FF5. The sound of cello resonance across the headstage, similarly to FF3. The dynamic contrast and variation of FF5 are top notch, as are Serratus.

Up to now, I find FF5 and Serratus to be neck and neck. My personal preference leans toward FF5 because it side steps the issues I raised in the Serratus review. Comfort is still a plus on Serratus side, thanks to the excellent cable that TGX chose. 

Btw, all listening impressions were done using Shanling M6 Ultra, which already softens the edges of Serratus slightly. I haven't A/B using K7 (desktop AIO), but I don't expect much difference since K7 is also an AKM-based device.


----------



## baskingshark

4ceratops said:


> I wish everyone a Merry Christmas. I would like to ask if anyone here has experience with the RY4S mmcx 300 Ohm and if they would be willing to share a few words about it. Thanks for your willingness.



The RY4S MMCX 300 ohm was one of the first IEMs I purchased when diving into the earbud rabbithole.

It is a U-shaped set, sub-bass is lacking as per most conventional earbuds. Needs amplification as per the highish impedance. The tonality is kinda all-rounder, timbre is quite organic. It is weak technically though, so stuff like micro-details and instrument separation is not that great.

I honestly think there are better buds out there, be it DIY or purchased earbuds.


----------



## 4ceratops

baskingshark said:


> The RY4S MMCX 300 ohm was one of the first IEMs I purchased when diving into the earbud rabbithole.
> 
> It is a U-shaped set, sub-bass is lacking as per most conventional earbuds. Needs amplification as per the highish impedance. The tonality is kinda all-rounder, timbre is quite organic. It is weak technically though, so stuff like micro-details and instrument separation is not that great.
> 
> I honestly think there are better buds out there, be it DIY or purchased earbuds.


Thanks for the reply. Could I still ask which commonly available high impedance earbuds (especially Aliexpress) would you recommend as a better alternative to the RY4S 300 Ohm?


----------



## baskingshark (Dec 25, 2022)

4ceratops said:


> Thanks for the reply. Could I still ask which commonly available high impedance earbuds (especially Aliexpress) would you recommend as a better alternative to the RY4S 300 Ohm?



Hmm maybe the others can chime in, but personally, I find the Penon HE150 pro (150 ohms) (V shaped) and the Faaeal Rosemary (150 ohms) (L-shaped) are more unique. The HE150 Pro has better technicalities than the RY4S 300 ohm, plus it has quite copious bass. Whereas the Faaeal Rosemary, even though it isn't as technical as the RY4S 300 ohm, it has a thick note weight and is analoguish, kind of the similar tuning to the Final E3000.

So these are all quite unique compared to the usual mid-centric tuned earbuds.


----------



## 4ceratops

baskingshark said:


> Hmm maybe the others can chime in, but personally, I find the Penon HE150 pro (150 ohms) (V shaped) and the Faaeal Rosemary (150 ohms) (L-shaped) are more unique. The HE150 Pro has better technicalities than the RY4S 300 ohm, plus it has quite copious bass. Whereas the Faaeal Rosemary, even though it isn't as technical as the RY4S 300 ohm, it has a thick note weight and is analoguish, kind of the similar tuning to the Final E3000.
> 
> So these are all quite unique compared to the usual mid-centric tuned earbuds.


Many thanks for the reply, Faaeal Rosemary have been piquing my interest for a while now, plus they also offer a 4.4mm balanced version which I prefer. I've had them in my cart on Ali for about a month now, just need to push the button.


----------



## baskingshark

4ceratops said:


> Many thanks for the reply, Faaeal Rosemary have been piquing my interest for a while now, plus they also offer a 4.4mm balanced version which I prefer. I've had them in my cart on Ali for about a month now, just need to push the button.



Wait for a sale bro, they are frequently discounted, and I bought the Rosemary for $12 USD after stacking coupons.


----------



## samandhi

4ceratops said:


> Thanks for the reply. Could I still ask which commonly available high impedance earbuds (especially Aliexpress) would you recommend as a better alternative to the RY4S 300 Ohm?


For me, the Yinman 2.0 600 gets my vote for the high impedance buds. Though they aren't budget, they aren't super expensive either. And I think that you can only get them on AE.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> I continue to enjoy the Fiio FF5. Today, I listen to "Six Evolutions - Bach: Cello Suites" performed by Yo-Yo Ma and do a quick A/B between FF5 and Serratus. For these particular tracks, I needed to twist my ears hard to hear any difference in resolution, and I found very little, if not none. The signature rumble "brrrrm" sound of cello strings from FF3 is back with FF5. The sound of cello resonance across the headstage, similarly to FF3. The dynamic contrast and variation of FF5 are top notch, as are Serratus.
> 
> Up to now, I find FF5 and Serratus to be neck and neck. My personal preference leans toward FF5 because it side steps the issues I raised in the Serratus review. Comfort is still a plus on Serratus side, thanks to the excellent cable that TGX chose.
> 
> Btw, all listening impressions were done using Shanling M6 Ultra, which already softens the edges of Serratus slightly. I haven't A/B using K7 (desktop AIO), but I don't expect much difference since K7 is also an AKM-based device.


That cone (Blue PET) on the 32Ohm version is probably the highest resolution 32Ohm bud I've built.  Unfortunately I was never able to balance that treble no matter what and it eventually made me begrudgingly surrender.  Every 300+ Ohm driver has out resolved every 32 Ohm driver I've tried, so I assume that the Serratus has some serious resolution.  If I understand what you are saying, and I'll paraphrase here: The FF5 has similar resolution to the 300Ohm Blue PET.  That's pretty wild, but it should be possible: aluminum, long throw VCs that are proximal to the magnet capable of maintaining saturation with excursion with a very well designed cone/surround (however they made it).  The only concern I have with the FF5 is the shape of the pinna gain rise.  The slop your graph of the Serratus has from 1-2kHz is what I've found to work best on my rig--not the one that the FF3 and thus FF5 has.  It's not a deal breaker, but the one thing that might keep it from ideal (in my mind).   It's still obviously a very cool/unique bud with a very good build quality that readily available and well balanced.  I'm definitely impressed.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Dec 25, 2022)

Ronion said:


> That cone (Blue PET) on the 32Ohm version is probably the highest resolution 32Ohm bud I've built.  Unfortunately I was never able to balance that treble no matter what and it eventually made me begrudgingly surrender.  Every 300+ Ohm driver has out resolved every 32 Ohm driver I've tried, so I assume that the Serratus has some serious resolution.  If I understand what you are saying, and I'll paraphrase here: The FF5 has similar resolution to the 300Ohm Blue PET.  That's pretty wild, but it should be possible: aluminum, long throw VCs that are proximal to the magnet capable of maintaining saturation with excursion with a very well designed cone/surround (however they made it).  The only concern I have with the FF5 is the shape of the pinna gain rise.  The slop your graph of the Serratus has from 1-2kHz is what I've found to work best on my rig--not the one that the FF3 and thus FF5 has.  It's not a deal breaker, but the one thing that might keep it from ideal (in my mind).   It's still obviously a very cool/unique bud with a very good build quality that readily available and well balanced.  I'm definitely impressed.


I wouldn’t be too surprised. They are (proprietary?) composite DLC drivers in specially designed shells.

My “rig” (which is just an IEC711 coupler) measures very stably the FR from 1k to around 7k. Each driver shows a unique “signature” around this area. FF5 and FF3 have almost identical response, with one exception: the jump from 1k and 3k of FF5 is larger than FF3, if I align the graph at 1kHz. That might contribute to the extra sense of clarity. Fiio’s tuning has more push and pull across FR (boost here, cut there for particular purposes), if that makes sense to you. Serratus‘s tuning has that kind of effortlessness / flatness / open / thinness across the frequency response that “feels” Harman, but with quite spicy mid treble.

Edit: the Fiio’s approach is essentially ”you win some you lose some” in terms of detail retrieval, because of the push and pull. Serratus can reveal everything more evenly (if details are not masked by mid treble peak). In any case, the underlying resolving power of both presents music with lot of nuances and separation.


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> I wouldn’t be too surprised. They are (proprietary?) composite DLC drivers in specially designed shells.
> 
> My “rig” (which is just an IEC711 coupler) measures very stably the FR from 1k to around 7k. Each driver shows a unique “signature” around this area. FF5 and FF3 have almost identical response, with one exception: the jump from 1k and 3k of FF5 is larger than FF3, if I align the graph at 1kHz. That might contribute to the extra sense of clarity. Fiio’s tuning has more push and pull across FR (boost here, cut there for particular purposes), if that makes sense to you. Serratus‘s tuning has that kind of effortlessness / flatness / open / thinness across the frequency response that “feels” Harman, but with quite spicy mid treble.
> 
> Edit: the Fiio’s approach is essentially ”you win some you lose some” in terms of detail retrieval, because of the push and pull. Serratus can reveal everything more evenly (if details are not masked by mid treble peak). In any case, the underlying resolving power of both presents music with lot of nuances and separation.


So it sounds like FiiO is using finesse and tuning to achieve what the Serratus does more naturally (because of the nature and quality of the driver) and with some tuning?! Not to say the FF5 driver is poor, but it much lower impedance transducer.

This is sort of how I feel about the Yinman and FF5, though I have absolutely nothing to actually back this claim at this point. I am just still in awe at how warm and laid back the Yinman can be while retaing its fantastic clarity and resolution. An enigma for certain (to my ears). The FF5 have a sort of tuning that I can believe they achieve this resolution more easily. If any of that makes any sense?!


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> So it sounds like FiiO is using finesse and tuning to achieve what the Serratus does more naturally (because of the nature and quality of the driver) and with some tuning?! Not to say the FF5 driver is poor, but it much lower impedance transducer.
> 
> This is sort of how I feel about the Yinman and FF5, though I have absolutely nothing to actually back this claim at this point. I am just still in awe at how warm and laid back the Yinman can be while retaing its fantastic clarity and resolution. An enigma for certain (to my ears). The FF5 have a sort of tuning that I can believe they achieve this resolution more easily. If any of that makes any sense?!


Maybe technological advances make transducers easier to drive yet still sound good? The new Meze 109 headphone is an example of this trend. Easy to drive well (meaning more than just loud midrange, but to squeeze out every last bit if performance) might be the key for a wireless future. I remember hifiman CEO mentioned in an interview that it’s not just the bluetooth connection but the tiny onboard DAC/amp that is the constraint of wireless gears.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> I wouldn’t be too surprised. They are (proprietary?) composite DLC drivers in specially designed shells.
> 
> My “rig” (which is just an IEC711 coupler) measures very stably the FR from 1k to around 7k. Each driver shows a unique “signature” around this area. FF5 and FF3 have almost identical response, with one exception: the jump from 1k and 3k of FF5 is larger than FF3, if I align the graph at 1kHz. That might contribute to the extra sense of clarity. Fiio’s tuning has more push and pull across FR (boost here, cut there for particular purposes), if that makes sense to you. Serratus‘s tuning has that kind of effortlessness / flatness / open / thinness across the frequency response that “feels” Harman, but with quite spicy mid treble.
> 
> Edit: the Fiio’s approach is essentially ”you win some you lose some” in terms of detail retrieval, because of the push and pull. Serratus can reveal everything more evenly (if details are not masked by mid treble peak). In any case, the underlying resolving power of both presents music with lot of nuances and separation.


The shape of the Serratus's ear gain from 1-4kHz is exactly like the 32 Ohm version's measurement on my rig when it is at its best.  It's a little too high for me, but not radically overdone and I can understand why many people would like it.  @samandhi and I will find it problematic.  I couldn't quite tune that to my satisfaction, but within the margin to not kill me like the SMABATs do.  That's one area where our graphs consistently agree.  The MR/Bass look to agree as well.  The treble in general is the area where our graphs don't agree and that's at least party due to my preamp.  You can still see the same features like the 9kHz dip in the FF3.  I'm tempted and likely will devise a calibration curve based off your measurements just so they'll be more easily comparable and match up with yours and standard  IEM measurements.  I'm 100% sure I wouldn't be able to tolerate the Serratus's treble--just like the 32Ohm's treble and some old-school Beyerdynamic cans as well.  That spike should actually contribute to the sense of detail more than mask anything--the masking shadow is larger to the right side of the spectrum (more so as frequency increases).  That's what I attributed the sense of detail to in the 32 Ohm version--an artifact of the treble resonance. I'll do my best to demonstrate, but bear with me as I'm not the graphic artist that @o0genesis0o is.  Fortunately these images abound on the web.










Excuse my horrible artwork but I think it's a helpful illustration.  Keep in mind that this is just the FR and music is going to make this work a bit differently. It's not like they'll be no air in the Serratus.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> So it sounds like FiiO is using finesse and tuning to achieve what the Serratus does more naturally (because of the nature and quality of the driver) and with some tuning?! Not to say the FF5 driver is poor, but it much lower impedance transducer.
> 
> This is sort of how I feel about the Yinman and FF5, though I have absolutely nothing to actually back this claim at this point. I am just still in awe at how warm and laid back the Yinman can be while retaing its fantastic clarity and resolution. An enigma for certain (to my ears). The FF5 have a sort of tuning that I can believe they achieve this resolution more easily. If any of that makes any sense?!


The Blur PK 32 is low impedance, warm and detailed!  It's neck and neck with the 32 Ohm Blue PET, but the balance is all day listenable.  So I do think this is the FiiO driver.  I think it's just well designed and built.  I'd be exceedingly surprised if it was able to hang with the Yinman however.  The 500 and 600 Ohm driver I've tuned have a different level of detail than any of the 300 Ohm buds I've heard.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Maybe technological advances make transducers easier to drive yet still sound good? The new Meze 109 headphone is an example of this trend. Easy to drive well (meaning more than just loud midrange, but to squeeze out every last bit if performance) might be the key for a wireless future. I remember hifiman CEO mentioned in an interview that it’s not just the bluetooth connection but the tiny onboard DAC/amp that is the constraint of wireless gears.


I've reconed a few dynamic drivers in my day--hazard of a guitar player's job--and strong magnets with voice coils completely saturated in the magnetic field over huge excursions has been possible for a long time really.  There are several patents on it and the Klippel can measure it very accurately.  I bet the machining and tech just trickled into this driver(maybe).  You can tell that a lot of driver manufacturers aren't using voice coil shims in the manufacturing process because a significant number of drivers I've tuned has had an off center or misshapen VC, so there's a lot of room for improvement in earbud driver manufacturing.


This is a car sub motor that would be much harder to design and build than a bud driver.    JVC used to post these measurements of their IEM drivers.  They were impressive YEARS ago.  It could be what they've done.  FiiO likely has the ability and certainly the financial backing.


----------



## o0genesis0o

Ronion said:


> The shape of the Serratus's ear gain from 1-4kHz is exactly like the 32 Ohm version's measurement on my rig when it is at its best.  It's a little too high for me, but not radically overdone and I can understand why many people would like it.  @samandhi and I will find it problematic.  I couldn't quite tune that to my satisfaction, but within the margin to not kill me like the SMABATs do.  That's one area where our graphs consistently agree.  The MR/Bass look to agree as well.  The treble in general is the area where our graphs don't agree and that's at least party due to my preamp.  You can still see the same features like the 9kHz dip in the FF3.  I'm tempted and likely will devise a calibration curve based off your measurements just so they'll be more easily comparable and match up with yours and standard  IEM measurements.  I'm 100% sure I wouldn't be able to tolerate the Serratus's treble--just like the 32Ohm's treble and some old-school Beyerdynamic cans as well.  That spike should actually contribute to the sense of detail more than mask anything--the masking shadow is larger to the right side of the spectrum (more so as frequency increases).  That's what I attributed the sense of detail to in the 32 Ohm version--an artifact of the treble resonance. I'll do my best to demonstrate, but bear with me as I'm not the graphic artist that @o0genesis0o is.  Fortunately these images abound on the web.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I guess don’t take my graph too seriously . From the bottom of the ear gain at 1.5k up, my graph follows Fiio official graph quite closely. The bass hump from 1.5k to below is more questionable. The more pressure I put on the buds, the bigger this bump is, but the 12db gain from 1.5 to 3k is unchanged. This 12db gain might be why Fiio use the term “female poison” tuning. It’s nothing compared to the 20-25db gain or Smabat though


----------



## Ronion (Dec 26, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> I guess don’t take my graph too seriously . From the bottom of the ear gain at 1.5k up, my graph follows Fiio official graph quite closely. The bass hump from 1.5k to below is more questionable. The more pressure I put on the buds, the bigger this bump is, but the 12db gain from 1.5 to 3k is unchanged. This 12db gain might be why Fiio use the term “female poison” tuning. It’s nothing compared to the 20-25db gain or Smabat though


FiiO doesn't state the condition of the FF5 measurement...  It could be different than the FF3 as far as foams go.  That bass hump getting bigger is what happens when I push a bud in tighter.  This is just how it works.  The fact that our rigs agree and my perception agrees--and it seems like yours does--bodes well I'd say.


----------



## baskingshark

Hi, a quick review on the Ourart QJ21 Special Edition:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ourart-qj21-selected-edition-earbuds.26250/reviews#review-29847





Essentially, it is a $100ish USD TOTL earbud that is tuned warm mid-centric. Easy to drive, very full bodied, organic timbre and not fatiguing. Shines with vocal/acoustic genres, and midlovers will like the tuning.

Good fit, build and very well accessorized. Comes with a MMCX cable that has 2.5mm, 3.5 mm and 4.4 mm distal plugs, so it can be paired with a myriad of sources.

Perhaps one small area to nitpick is that some other TOTL rivals may provide better resolution, but the QJ21 Special Edition is a set tuned to be analoguish instead of analytical, something well suited to sit back to chill and to relax to the music.


----------



## prakasitp

Has anyone heard Celsus Gramo One? How is your impression about these buds.

I found a review which is quite a while back, would love to hear how it compares to newer buds.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/review-celsus-sound-gramo-one-a-fantastic-open-backed-earbud.761288/


----------



## FranQL (Dec 26, 2022)

samandhi said:


> So it sounds like FiiO is using finesse and tuning to achieve what the Serratus does more naturally (because of the nature and quality of the driver) and with some tuning?! Not to say the FF5 driver is poor, but it much lower impedance transducer.
> 
> This is sort of how I feel about the Yinman and FF5, though I have absolutely nothing to actually back this claim at this point. I am just still in awe at how warm and laid back the Yinman can be while retaing its fantastic clarity and resolution. An enigma for certain (to my ears). The FF5 have a sort of tuning that I can believe they achieve this resolution more easily. If any of that makes any sense?!


Honestly, I see the plot that I read on this page as too complex and paranoid.

Fiio will have a team of engineers and production who don't care about the rest of the drivers they haven't chosen, in fact they've discarded high impedance to make their toys, the reason? because they will not have been interested in meeting their sales expectations.

blue PET? Well, since they are smart, they have discarded it... LOL, and they have chosen a driver with a consistent compound... really, I understand that it is fashionable, but IMO it has no relevance. Let us bear in mind that these companies have all the alternatives at their disposal and choose what interests them the most or considers best.

The finish of FF5 is impressive, it's a beauty, and there's engineering work and acoustics, I can't say the same about other releases. I will always support innovation, FF5 is a step forward.

On the other hand, I do DIY, I would flee / abandon MX500, pk, dp100, mx760, etc. without hesitation, I would not give any qualms. I prefer innovative shells that bring new acoustics to the game. But these wonders are reserved for the big manufacturers, some take advantage of it like fiio, others launch 7 mediocre models a year... and in a way, they also take advantage of it...


----------



## samandhi (Dec 26, 2022)

Ronion said:


> The shape of the Serratus's ear gain from 1-4kHz is exactly like the 32 Ohm version's measurement on my rig when it is at its best.  It's a little too high for me, but not radically overdone and I can understand why many people would like it.  @samandhi and I will find it problematic.  I couldn't quite tune that to my satisfaction, but within the margin to not kill me like the SMABATs do.  That's one area where our graphs consistently agree.  The MR/Bass look to agree as well.  The treble in general is the area where our graphs don't agree and that's at least party due to my preamp.  You can still see the same features like the 9kHz dip in the FF3.  I'm tempted and likely will devise a calibration curve based off your measurements just so they'll be more easily comparable and match up with yours and standard  IEM measurements.  I'm 100% sure I wouldn't be able to tolerate the Serratus's treble--just like the 32Ohm's treble and some old-school Beyerdynamic cans as well.  That spike should actually contribute to the sense of detail more than mask anything--the masking shadow is larger to the right side of the spectrum (more so as frequency increases).  That's what I attributed the sense of detail to in the 32 Ohm version--an artifact of the treble resonance. I'll do my best to demonstrate, but bear with me as I'm not the graphic artist that @o0genesis0o is.  Fortunately these images abound on the web.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Get with me on PM, and I will send you the FF5 and Yinman to experiment with in measurements if you like. Provided that you haven't already caved and ordered the FF5 anyhow... haha


Ronion said:


> I've reconed a few dynamic drivers in my day--hazard of a guitar player's job--and strong magnets with voice coils completely saturated in the magnetic field over huge excursions has been possible for a long time really.  There are several patents on it and the Klippel can measure it very accurately.  I bet the machining and tech just trickled into this driver(maybe).  You can tell that a lot of driver manufacturers aren't using voice coil shims in the manufacturing process because a significant number of drivers I've tuned has had an off center or misshapen VC, so there's a lot of room for improvement in earbud driver manufacturing.This is a car sub motor that would be much harder to design and build than a bud driver.    JVC used to post these measurements of their IEM drivers.  They were impressive YEARS ago.  It could be what they've done.  FiiO likely has the ability and certainly the financial backing.


I really do think the the days of DD having poor separation up top are over with, even for the lower impedance transducers since the advent of more powerful magnets combined with coatings. All iBasso IEMs (for instance) use their (patented) Tesla magnets. It is my opinion that this gives them an advantage out of the gate. I can't prove this but seeing how popular their entire series (from budget to TOTL) have been received by the audiophile community over the years, it is plausible to me. I can speak to the last part because I have either listened to or owned/own all but two of them. And I have to believe they can't be THAT good at making them and didn't have any failures (especially since they have never been known for IEMs until they started that line).

Having said all of that, the whole thing is just conjecture on my part. I think the tech is approaching high impedance levels but isn't quite there yet. But I would put the newer (low impedance) buds against the old school stuff any day of the week.


baskingshark said:


> Hi, a quick review on the Ourart QJ21 Special Edition:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ourart-qj21-selected-edition-earbuds.26250/reviews#review-29847
> 
> ...


Are these review units or yours?

If they are yours, congrats on your new shiny!


----------



## jeejack

baskingshark said:


> The RY4S MMCX 300 ohm was one of the first IEMs I purchased when diving into the earbud rabbithole.
> 
> It is a U-shaped set, sub-bass is lacking as per most conventional earbuds. Needs amplification as per the highish impedance. The tonality is kinda all-rounder, timbre is quite organic. It is weak technically though, so stuff like micro-details and instrument separation is not that great.
> 
> I honestly think there are better buds out there, be it DIY or purchased earbuds.


With the right tuning we will have a great sound.


----------



## FranQL

jeejack said:


> With the right tuning we will have a great sound.



Yep


----------



## furyossa

Hermanos, both builds looks very professional! 


jeejack said:


> With the right tuning we will have a great sound.





FranQL said:


> Yep


----------



## o0genesis0o

jeejack said:


> With the right tuning we will have a great sound.





FranQL said:


> Yep



Excellent work, folks!

How do you jam the MMCX connector in the shells? I bought a bunch of clear shells and MMCX connectors, but the shell cracked when drilled and pushed the connectors in.


----------



## jeejack

o0genesis0o said:


> Excellent work, folks!
> 
> How do you jam the MMCX connector in the shells? I bought a bunch of clear shells and MMCX connectors, but the shell cracked when drilled and pushed the connectors in.


With the right drill it goes very easily. I will measure it and let you know


furyossa said:


> Hermanos, both builds looks very professional!


🍻🤗


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> Hermanos, both builds looks very professional!



And Yinfran 500 Ohm


----------



## Ronion

FranQL said:


> And Yinfran 500 Ohm


Love it!  Very cool.


----------



## Ronion

o0genesis0o said:


> Excellent work, folks!
> 
> How do you jam the MMCX connector in the shells? I bought a bunch of clear shells and MMCX connectors, but the shell cracked when drilled and pushed the connectors in.


You have to ream the hole!   It's the best thing you can do acoustically for those shells.


----------



## assassin10000

Drill then tap the shell. M3 or M4 tap depending on which type of MMCX connector.

No push necessary.


----------



## fooltoque

If anyone is in Japan and wants a used FiiO EM5, this is as cheap as I've seen it used. https://www.e-earphone.jp/products/detail/1428166/2069/
I actually bought mine used from the same place, but this is way cheaper.


----------



## samandhi

FranQL said:


> And Yinfran 500 Ohm


----------



## nofarewell

Attention, vintage Sony Dudes: Sony MDR-E262 vs E272, pro/contra reasons? I am eager to hear some opinions. I know the 262 quite much, and I am interested in how the 272 compares. Cheers


----------



## mt877

prakasitp said:


> Has anyone heard Celsus Gramo One? How is your impression about these buds.
> 
> I found a review which is quite a while back, would love to hear how it compares to newer buds.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/review-celsus-sound-gramo-one-a-fantastic-open-backed-earbud.761288/


I don't have them, so no comment on that. Looks like they might be hard to buy unless you can find a used set. Penon used to sell them, but not anymore.


----------



## Ronion (Dec 27, 2022)

YinFran
Not just a brand
It’s a way of life
Like when you take a wife
And she takes a knife
Into your chest
And all that’s left
Is your last breath
because you wouldn’t listen
You fed your addiction
One more acquisition
For your Bud collection
And that was it,
She’d had enough
Stabbed your heart
And sold your stuff
Not for what you really paid
when you got it
But for what you said you paid
When you bought it

Sorry, I’m applying to be the next Poet Laureate of the United States and I must be ready for the interview.


----------



## samandhi

nofarewell said:


> Attention, vintage Sony Dudes: Sony MDR-E262 vs E272, pro/contra reasons? I am eager to hear some opinions. I know the 262 quite much, and I am interested in how the 272 compares. Cheers


@WoodyLuvr would know all about those. Unfortunately, he doesn't often visit this site anymore. Though you could discuss it with him on the earbud server on Discord. Otherwise, I will be of no help to you.. 


Ronion said:


> YinFran
> Not just a brand
> It’s a way of life
> Like when you take a wife
> ...


Very nice!


----------



## mt877

nofarewell said:


> Attention, vintage Sony Dudes: Sony MDR-E262 vs E272, pro/contra reasons? I am eager to hear some opinions. I know the 262 quite much, and I am interested in how the 272 compares. Cheers


Sorry, can't help with your question, but wow, so colorful. Sort of reminds me of those Apple candy colored iMacs from the late 90's early 2k's.


----------



## mt877 (Dec 27, 2022)

Posted this in the DIY Earbuds thread. Might as well share here too.

My latest build: 500Ω Be, 4.4mm Pentaconn.


----------



## Carpet

Ronion said:


> YinFran
> Not just a brand
> It’s a way of life
> Like when you take a wife
> ...



Enough of that sort of disturbing talk! We are not obsessive, we just choose to spend more time on really fascinating stuff rather than the inconsequential trivia on which our partners are fixated. How can gardening, decorating, fashion and jewelry even begin to compare with impedance loading, sound signatures and the technology behind new transducers? As for the disparity between pricing, there are sales taxes and shipping to consider, let alone currency fluctuations!

Stabbing... REALLY?


----------



## FranQL

Ronion said:


> YinFran
> Not just a brand
> It’s a way of life
> Like when you take a wife
> ...



I laughed for a while!



mt877 said:


> Posted this in the DIY Earbuds thread. Might as well share here too.
> 
> My latest build: 500Ω Be, 4.4mm Pentaconn.



Ohhh a DIY!!!! Bravo!!!!!!



Carpet said:


> Enough of that sort of disturbing talk! We are not obsessive, we just choose to spend more time on really fascinating stuff rather than the inconsequential trivia on which our partners are fixated. How can gardening, decorating, fashion and jewelry even begin to compare with impedance loading, sound signatures and the technology behind new transducers? As for the disparity between pricing, there are sales taxes and shipping to consider, let alone currency fluctuations!
> 
> Stabbing... REALLY?



Here we are all aligned, but... out there the world is cold and gloomy, misunderstood... some buy televisions, cars, clothes, jewelry, watches, even very expensive panties... but no one understands the cost of our little and wonderful whims.....

Stab maybe not, but maybe it is preferring to receive one to the tremendous reprimand when detecting a new pair that you have left in plain sight or too little hidden!!!!!


----------



## samandhi

FranQL said:


> even very expensive panties


Are you including yourself in this bunch?


----------



## mt877

FranQL said:


> Ohhh a DIY!!!! Bravo!!!!!!


Thanks! Not my first and definitely not my last DIY work.


----------



## Carpet

FranQL said:


> even very expensive panties...


These had better be new, gift wrapped and in your partners size!


----------



## fooltoque

mt877 said:


> Posted this in the DIY Earbuds thread. Might as well share here too.
> 
> My latest build: 500Ω Be, 4.4mm Pentaconn.


I really like the wrapped cable on that. Looks really easy to use.


----------



## mt877

fooltoque said:


> I really like the wrapped cable on that. Looks really easy to use.


It's a flexible cable with a nice feel. The texture of the wrap makes the cable microphonic and easily transmits rubbing sounds up to the buds more than other cables I have. I do like the looks and feel of the cable though, so I can live with the occasional rubbing sound.


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Are you including yourself in this bunch?


Careful.  He'll PM you the photos if you are too loose with your words.


----------



## SergeTheUkrainian

Holy moly! what a collection!!!


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> Careful.  He'll PM you the photos if you are too loose with your words.


ROFL.. True, true!


----------



## syazwaned

Hi, I am selling my Rikubuds Grand Archer for 80 usd. I am open for trade with Tgxear Serratus if anyone interested.

Thanks


----------



## jeejack

syazwaned said:


> Hi, I am selling my Rikubuds Grand Archer for 80 usd. I am open for trade with Tgxear Serratus if anyone interested.
> 
> Thanks


68 ohm ? Do they have a real gold diaphragm or cable for this money?
Can you post a picture?


----------



## syazwaned

jeejack said:


> 68 ohm ? Do they have a real gold diaphragm or cable for this money?
> Can you post a picture?



Here is the pictures...68 ohms graphene. Not sure about the the gold though. I can give more discount if you interested.


----------



## jeejack

syazwaned said:


> Here is the pictures...68 ohms graphene. Not sure about the the gold though. I can give more discount if you interested.


Thank you, but is to much for a $20 build


----------



## ValSuki

syazwaned said:


> Here is the pictures...68 ohms graphene. Not sure about the the gold though. I can give more discount if you interested.


I would highly reccomend using classifieds for this, you'll get better luck i'd say! Riku buds have a name about now, so you should give it a go.


----------



## Mustard (Dec 29, 2022)

Hello everyone! This is my first post here, but I am long time lurker 

I am interested getting new earbuds, because I cannot use my IEMs in the evening (need to hear if my young baby starts to cry for example), and I figure you guys/gals are the best bunch to ask for earbud advice!

My preferred sound signature is neutral with bass boost. For example my daily IEMs are the kilobuck Thieaudio Monarch MK2 and I absolutely love them. My most used IEM after it is surprisingly a much cheaper $99 Tripowin x HBB Olina (with double filter). It has similar sound signature as Monarch MK2 (neutral), but it has a much wider soundstage that I also enjoy! I normally combine both of them to a Qudelix 5k (also a device that I truly adore).

For the earbuds, I would like to experience a truly wide soundstage with similar neutralish sound signature as the IEMs I mentioned above. I have Qudelix 5k that I could use to EQ, but for the earbuds I'd like them to hold them own even without external DAC/Amp for convenience. My budget maximum would be maybe $300, since this would not be my main daily driver.

Based on my reading in this thread, I am interested in FiiO FF3, FiiO FF5 and TGXear Serratus, but I am open to other options also. The Serratus seems like it would be "the one", but the problem is that it's 300ohm and thus hard to drive. Ideally, I would like to drive the earbud from TV or from devices like the Analogue Pocket that only have a 3.5mm jack (can't connect Qudelix to them). However, if this earbud is "that good", I might consider it anyway (I assume Qudelix 5k would be enough to drive it, right?), but overall I would say convenience is a high priority (no extra devices, just plug earbuds and go).

FiiO FF3 seems to have a "fun tuning", which is why I have had my eye on it (doesn't hurt to listen to different sound signatures every now and then!). I am not really afraid of weight or fit, because the Monarch MK2s are very chonky boys and I have no comfort issues with them either. FF5 seems like a good middle ground between FF3 and Serratus (or am I completely wrong?).

Sorry for the long post, but basically I think for the earbud I would like a truly wide soundstage since that's something I cannot get with the Thieaudio Monarch MK2. Is there a easier to drive Serratus for example?


----------



## ttorbic

Mustard said:


> Hello everyone! This is my first post here, but I am long time lurker
> 
> I am interested getting new earbuds, because I cannot use my IEMs in the evening (need to hear if my young baby starts to cry for example), and I figure you guys/gals are the best bunch to ask for earbud advice!
> 
> ...


TGXear Serratus is only offered in 4.4 mm balanced as far as I know. While it has a very impressive soundstage, I do think you'll need to drive them with something at least as powerful as Q5k. 

I'm sure you'll be happy with the FF3 or FF5, but if you want to explore easy to drive earbuds with a wide stage (perhaps not as wide as the Serratus), I'd consider Rikubuds.


----------



## o0genesis0o (Dec 29, 2022)

Mustard said:


> Hello everyone! This is my first post here, but I am long time lurker
> 
> I am interested getting new earbuds, because I cannot use my IEMs in the evening (need to hear if my young baby starts to cry for example), and I figure you guys/gals are the best bunch to ask for earbud advice!
> 
> ...


I recommend Fiio FF5. It made buying a Monarch way less compelling to me. Pairing FF5 with K7 or M6U gets as close to “TOTL” sound as I can imagine.

Serratus is Harman ish in its tuning, with an unfortunate treble peak. It sounds like a kilobuck “high brow” IEM. FF5 is natural but warmer and denser (dare I say “more musical”?). Both are excellent at staging and resolution. FF5 is very easy to drive. Serratus is not that hard to drive, despite having 300ohm rating.


----------



## Surf Monkey

Well, damn!

I haven’t had a set of earbuds in my ears probably since the (horrible) original first gen’ iPod buds. Before that it must have been another ten years or so earlier that I owned a set that I actually liked.

Today I got a pair of these for $10USD:





YINCROW X6

Holy cats! When did the bass response fairies sprinkle their dust on EARBUDS?? These things are really enjoyable. Tons of rumbly, well defined bass, great big (open back headphone style) soundstage. Great tune across the whole frequency range. Man. I should have dipped back into flat head buds sooner. If this is what can be done with a set that runs $10… wow. I’m in.


----------



## mt877

Mustard said:


> Hello everyone! This is my first post here, but I am long time lurker
> 
> I am interested getting new earbuds, because I cannot use my IEMs in the evening (need to hear if my young baby starts to cry for example), and I figure you guys/gals are the best bunch to ask for earbud advice!
> 
> ...


Checkout the RikuBuds Hangout thread.

One of @RikudouGoku's buds, the Grand Alter Saber 2 matches with your Neutral Bass Boosted preference. You could PM him, I'm sure he'll have a recommendation for you.

Here's his description of the Grand Alter Saber 2:
Bass boosted neutral: Very small bass boost that is very clean but has lots of texture and impressive extension, evenly balanced male/female vocals, smooth but very airy treble.


----------



## mt877 (Dec 29, 2022)

Surf Monkey said:


> Well, damn!
> 
> I haven’t had a set of earbuds in my ears probably since the (horrible) original first gen’ iPod buds. Before that it must have been another ten years or so earlier that I owned a set that I actually liked.
> 
> ...


Welcome... back to the earbuds rabbit hole. Flat head buds have come a long way with amazing sound quality these days. Manufacturers have stepped up their game and the DIY frontier is something else. So whether you buy from manufacturers, boutique small scale creators or DIY yourself, flat heads will surprise you with their sound quality and musicality. I have several quality IEMs and a couple of headphones, but I keep coming back to my flat head buds because of their impressive sound.


----------



## Surf Monkey

mt877 said:


> Welcome... back to the earbuds rabbit hole. Flat head buds have come a long way with amazing sound quality these days. Manufacturers have stepped up their game and the DIY frontier is something else. So whether you buy from manufacturers, boutique small scale creators or DIY yourself, flat heads will surprise you with their sound quality and musicality. I have several quality IEMs and a couple of headphones, but I keep coming back to my flat head buds because of their impressive sound.



I have a set of TRN EMX on the way too. So many options! The high impedance sets interest me too. Maybe the ToneKing TO200.


----------



## mt877

Surf Monkey said:


> I have a set of TRN EMX on the way too. So many options! The high impedance sets interest me too. Maybe the ToneKing TO200.


I don't have them, so no comment, but maybe someone here has them and can give you some impressions.

Anyway, here's @WoodyLuvr's personal Flatheads Ranking list to give you some ideas how to empty your wallet... LOL.

(Where have you been Woody? I miss your presence)


----------



## jogawag (Dec 30, 2022)

Mustard said:


> Hello everyone! This is my first post here, but I am long time lurker
> 
> I am interested getting new earbuds, because I cannot use my IEMs in the evening (need to hear if my young baby starts to cry for example), and I figure you guys/gals are the best bunch to ask for earbud advice!
> 
> ...



Welcome to the rabbit hole!

I don't have the FiiO FF5 and TGXear Serratus you mentioned, and I have only the FiiO FF3 and the Nobunaga labs Uguisu 鶯 (released 17/12/2022).
After 100 hours of burn-in, the Uguisu has more bass and a wider soundstage than the FF3.
Also, I only know about the TGXear Serratus from @Ronion's graph.

Nevertheless, I think the comparison of wider soundstage earbuds with bass boost is as follows.
bass boost: Uguisu > FF3 > FF5 > Serratus
soundstage: Uguisu > FF3 > FF5 ? Serratus.

I therefore recommend Nobunaga labs Uguisu 鶯.
I believe Uguisu can be purchased at the following page.
https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B0BNQ5ZXHJ?th=1

Graph of @Ronion


----------



## o0genesis0o

You know that proud moment when your kids grow up?

I have no kids, but my wife just A/B my Shanling M6U + FF5 against her iPhone + Sony XM4, and she says that the Sony is more muffled and has less soundstage. My brainwash effort works   

(She still does not authorise my U12t purchase though)


----------



## syazwaned

Mustard said:


> Hello everyone! This is my first post here, but I am long time lurker
> 
> I am interested getting new earbuds, because I cannot use my IEMs in the evening (need to hear if my young baby starts to cry for example), and I figure you guys/gals are the best bunch to ask for earbud advice!
> 
> ...


Rikubuds Grand Berserker 2, but ask for the new cable termination.


----------



## baskingshark (Dec 30, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> You know that proud moment when your kids grow up?
> 
> I have no kids, but my wife just A/B my Shanling M6U + FF5 against her iPhone + Sony XM4, and she says that the Sony is more muffled and has less soundstage. My brainwash effort works
> 
> (She still does not authorise my U12t purchase though)



My wife can't tell the difference between a $3 usd knock off Beats night bazaar earphone from a TOTL Dunu Luna. No wonder she views all my mailed audio gear with suspicion.

But thankfully - actually my wallet says it isn't something to be thankful - my kid could differentiate a $1 usd vido from a smabat m2s pro. She says the former is muddy and not too clear. So she has stolen my smabat m2s pro unfortunately.


----------



## chavez

Surf Monkey said:


> I have a set of TRN EMX on the way too. So many options! The high impedance sets interest me too. Maybe the ToneKing TO200.


You should have asked here before buying, unfortunately, EMX seems to be a dud.


----------



## Ronion

Mustard said:


> Hello everyone! This is my first post here, but I am long time lurker
> 
> I am interested getting new earbuds, because I cannot use my IEMs in the evening (need to hear if my young baby starts to cry for example), and I figure you guys/gals are the best bunch to ask for earbud advice!
> 
> ...


My bet would be from others' impressions is that the FF5 would fit the needs.  Another option might be these buds or one of their siblings.  The RW3000 is reportedly incredible as well.


Surf Monkey said:


> Well, damn!
> 
> I haven’t had a set of earbuds in my ears probably since the (horrible) original first gen’ iPod buds. Before that it must have been another ten years or so earlier that I owned a set that I actually liked.
> 
> ...


That was my gateway bud as well.  You should hear what can be done with that amount of money and a little DIY.  Do you own a soldering iron?  We can teach you basic tunings that will het you into upper mid-tier sound quality for that price.  Double the money and you're pushing TOTLs.


jogawag said:


> Welcome to the rabbit hole!
> 
> I don't have the FiiO FF5 and TGXear Serratus you mentioned, only the FiiO FF3 and the Nobunaga labs Uguisu 鶯 (released 17/12/2022) which has sub buss.
> Also, I only know about the TGXear Serratus from @Ronion's graphs with high frequency peaks.
> ...


@o0genesis0o's graphs.  That amateur hour art work is mine LOL


baskingshark said:


> My wife can't tell the difference between a $3 usd knock off Beats night bazaar earphone from a TOTL Dunu Luna. No wonder she views all my mailed audio gear with suspicion.
> 
> But thankfully - actually my wallet says it isn't something to be thankful - my kid could differentiate a $1 usd vido from a smabat m2s pro. She says the former is muddy and not too clear. So she has stolen my smabat m2s pro unfortunately.


Glad to know the little one has your ear, but hopefully your wife's looks (kidding)!


----------



## Surf Monkey

chavez said:


> You should have asked here before buying, unfortunately, EMX seems to be a dud.



Well, I didn’t pay much for them. Alternate choice?


----------



## FranQL

Surf Monkey said:


> Well, I didn’t pay much for them. Alternate choice?


I knew you would end up here!!!!! LOL

I am very happy, here you will be the highest quality / price you can find!!!!!


----------



## Surf Monkey

FranQL said:


> I knew you would end up here!!!!! LOL
> 
> I am very happy, here you will be the highest quality / price you can find!!!!!



Round and round we all go, eh?


----------



## sofastreamer (Dec 30, 2022)

got the F5 yesterday, what a great tuning! But is anyone else a little underwhelmed with soundstage (depth)? These are my only buds, that mostly play inside my head while every other of my buds play mostly outside my head.


----------



## ttorbic

sofastreamer said:


> These are my only buds, that mostly play inside my head while every *other of my buds* play mostly outside my head.


Do you mean IEMs? If so, that's quite surprising - earbuds have larger stage than IEMs for me .

Are you getting a good fit?


----------



## sofastreamer

talking earbuds and i can get a perfect fit as with all my buds.


----------



## ttorbic

sofastreamer said:


> talking earbuds and i can get a perfect fit as with all my buds.


Ahh got it - I misunderstood your sentence. What other earbuds do you own that have better staging?


----------



## ian91 (Dec 30, 2022)

Mustard said:


> Based on my reading in this thread, I am interested in FiiO FF3, FiiO FF5 and TGXear Serratus, but I am open to other options also. The Serratus seems like it would be "the one", but the problem is that it's 300ohm and thus hard to drive. Ideally, I would like to drive the earbud from TV or from devices like the Analogue Pocket that only have a 3.5mm jack (can't connect Qudelix to them). However, if this earbud is "that good", I might consider it anyway (I assume Qudelix 5k would be enough to drive it, right?), but overall I would say convenience is a high priority (no extra devices, just plug earbuds and go).




I would recommend going for the TGXEar  (@tgx78) Ripples, at 100ohms it's within reach of your Qudelix from the balanced output. The Serratus is thinner in noteweight to the Ripples and benefits at both ends of the FR from plenty of power, in my opinion.

The Ripples is more akin to your Monarch but with more midbass that still leaves the midrange very clean.

It's at the top end of your budget but I'd highly recommend it.


----------



## Surf Monkey

chavez said:


> You should have asked here before buying, unfortunately, EMX seems to be a dud.



Weirdly enough, the set I ordered seems to be lost in shipping. Last scanned on December 6th. I may end up with a refund on those anyway. 

But to follow up, I bought a set of the ToneKing TO200. They get roundly good write-ups here. I was looking at the Bell LBBS but it sounds like they don’t have the magic buds bass. I gotta have the magic buds bass. At least at this point in my buds journey.


----------



## FranQL

Today I made this PK with original Docomo drivers (16 Ohm) that I have thanks to @jogawag decided to buy them in Japan and send them to me, with a stock setting I built my first pair that already sounds really good, but today I decided to dedicate time to them...


----------



## Ronion

There's really nothing better than a great sounding PK shell bud.


----------



## Surf Monkey

General newb question: is there a better solution than these scratchy foam covers? Is anyone using silicon donuts? Full silicon covers?


----------



## baskingshark

Surf Monkey said:


> General newb question: is there a better solution than these scratchy foam covers? Is anyone using silicon donuts? Full silicon covers?



Full foams generally add warmth and bass.

Donut foams (there's a hole in the centre) generally preserve midrange/treble frequencies.

Earbuds can be used without foam too, if you so incline.

Silicone covers are more to add girth to the earbud so as to give a better fit.

Some of us use double foams in various combinations to tune the earbud and or give better fit.

Even foams come in various densities (you can put it against a light to see how much light passes thru), and generally thicker density tames the treble more.


----------



## Surf Monkey

baskingshark said:


> Full foams generally add warmth and bass.
> 
> Donut foams (there's a hole in the centre) generally preserve midrange/treble frequencies.
> 
> ...



Got it. Back in the early days years ago I wore all my buds “naked.” These don’t want to stay in without foam. I’ll experiment more and get some third party covers to try.


----------



## fooltoque

My daughter uses headphones into the ground.
 "Want me to get you a new one?" 
*"*No, it's fine."


----------



## Ronion

Surf Monkey said:


> General newb question: is there a better solution than these scratchy foam covers? Is anyone using silicon donuts? Full silicon covers?


Which foams do you have?  There are several available densities and some soft and comfy ones.  HieGi probably makes the softest and most dense, but they will reduce treble output.  Venture Electronics make a nice variety pack and their more dense ones are not scratchy at all.  The donut variety are particularly nice because they give the bass a nice warmth and have very little effect on other parts of the spectrum.


----------



## Surf Monkey

Ronion said:


> Which foams do you have?  There are several available densities and some soft and comfy ones.  HieGi probably makes the softest and most dense, but they will reduce treble output.  Venture Electronics make a nice variety pack and their more dense ones are not scratchy at all.  The donut variety are particularly nice because they give the bass a nice warmth and have very little effect on other parts of the spectrum.



I have the stock ones that come with the Yincrow X6. I’ll check out your recommendations!


----------



## Ronion

Surf Monkey said:


> I have the stock ones that come with the Yincrow X6. I’ll check out your recommendations!


Yeah, most of the stock foams with the lower cost buds are not very good.  Usually aren’t very elastic and initially are not particularly comfortable.  The salts and oils in your skin will soften them over time and you can also wash them with fabric softeners to get them nice and soft and comfy.  I’ve done this accidentally and it worked out amazingly well.


----------



## samandhi (Dec 31, 2022)

Surf Monkey said:


> Weirdly enough, the set I ordered seems to be lost in shipping. Last scanned on December 6th. I may end up with a refund on those anyway.
> 
> But to follow up, I bought a set of the ToneKing TO200. They get roundly good write-ups here. I was looking at the Bell LBBS but it sounds like they don’t have the magic buds bass. I gotta have the magic buds bass. At least at this point in my buds journey.


If you are wanting the best of the best for store bought buds, my suggestions would be:

Yinman 2.0 600 (very high impedance buds, but terrific in just about everything)
Yincrow RW2000 (great all around bud leaning more towards fun tuning)
Yincrow RW3000 (great all around bud leaning more towards analytical tuning)
FiiO FF3 (great soundstage, with some of the best sounding bass)
FiiO FF5 (Much like RW3000 but with less of a boost to ear gain region)
Moondrop Chaconne (best mids and highs tuning I have heard to date making them niche for classical and the like mostly)

There are, of course, many other good buds out there, but these are ones to beat IMHO and you really can't go wrong with any of them.

Edit: The FF3 and FF5 come with some of the best foams  you can get IMO, so there is that....


----------



## Ronion

I do love the FF3 foams--I just wish it was easier to acquire more of them.  You can buy them through FiiO and there's a link about how to do it in my signature.


----------



## EJnP

Hello! I made a post in the recommendations forum but was told to try getting some help from the friendly folk here instead. I'm basically just gonna copy and paste from my post: 

I'm still somewhat new to all this, and I'm not too familiar with all the technical stuff so I'm hoping more knowledgeable people here would be willing to suggest some earbuds that fit my criteria.

I already have a couple IEMs that I use, but now I'm looking for some open earbuds to use when situational awareness is a priority. My budget is a somewhat flexible $120. I would prefer to spend less but am open to going a bit over budget if there's something really worth the cost. I'm looking for something easy to drive and has good bass; I'd prefer buds with more of a V shape and are fun to listen to. I mostly listen to kpop/jpop, rock and metal, and some EDM. I also plan to use these earbuds for casual gaming so something with pretty decent soundstage and imaging would be ideal. An inline mic would also be nice to have but definitely not required.

I've done a bit of research myself, but honestly I'm feeling overwhelmed with all the choices out there. Currently, the only buds I have my eyes on are the FiiO FF3, but I would appreciate more alternatives to look into. Thanks in advance!


----------



## o0genesis0o

EJnP said:


> Hello! I made a post in the recommendations forum but was told to try getting some help from the friendly folk here instead. I'm basically just gonna copy and paste from my post:
> 
> I'm still somewhat new to all this, and I'm not too familiar with all the technical stuff so I'm hoping more knowledgeable people here would be willing to suggest some earbuds that fit my criteria.
> 
> ...


I would spend a bit more and get FF5, at least for the sake of interchangeable cable. If you use foam, the signature of FF5 is quite close to FF3, but the imaging accuracy and resolution improved across the board. FF3 has big “wet” bass whilst FF5 has that “tight” and snappy bass like planar transducers. Somewhat reminds me of Sundara but not quite there in terms of bass quantity.


----------



## samandhi (Dec 31, 2022)

EJnP said:


> Hello! I made a post in the recommendations forum but was told to try getting some help from the friendly folk here instead. I'm basically just gonna copy and paste from my post:
> 
> I'm still somewhat new to all this, and I'm not too familiar with all the technical stuff so I'm hoping more knowledgeable people here would be willing to suggest some earbuds that fit my criteria.
> 
> ...


Those are the very ones I was going to suggest. As for the mic, you would simply need to purchase an MMCX cable that has that feature, and you will have met ALL of your requirements. 

For some reason I forgot that the FF3 have a fixed cable. The FF5 are the ones you might want. If you want more quantity of bass, the FF3 are better for you (though a fixed cable), but the FF5 meet all of your other requirements.


----------



## Surf Monkey

o0genesis0o said:


> I would spend a bit more and get FF5, at least for the sake of interchangeable cable. If you use foam, the signature of FF5 is quite close to FF3, but the imaging accuracy and resolution improved across the board. FF3 has big “wet” bass whilst FF5 has that “tight” and snappy bass like planar transducers. Somewhat reminds me of Sundara but not quite there in terms of bass quantity.



A detachable cable is definitely a benefit. As to foam, I’m up in the air about whether I’ll be using it moving forward. Foams on the X6 make them bassier for sure but when I can get them to stay in my ears without foam they sound great too. So with this specific set I’m going to try a couple silicon rings on them to see if I can get a diameter that fits better first. Then I’ll experiment with foams on either these or a future set. The ToneKing is on the way and I’m considering the FF5 for sure. Can’t really go wrong with FiiO.


----------



## samandhi

Surf Monkey said:


> A detachable cable is definitely a benefit. As to foam, I’m up in the air about whether I’ll be using it moving forward. Foams on the X6 make them bassier for sure but when I can get them to stay in my ears without foam they sound great too. So with this specific set I’m going to try a couple silicon rings on them to see if I can get a diameter that fits better first. Then I’ll experiment with foams on either these or a future set. The ToneKing is on the way and I’m considering the FF5 for sure. Can’t really go wrong with FiiO.


Unlike yesteryear, it is difficult to wear buds without foams nowadays for two main reasons. They used to build the silicone ring into the buds (like the Apple Classic Earbuds), though not all of them did. Also, most of the ones coming out of China nowadays are just way too hot in the ear gain to be able to wear them without foams for any length of time (and with no fatigue). 

I would prefer wearing mine without foams also, but I have yet to find a set that one or both of the above reasons keep me from doing so. If you do find that set, then congratulations to you.


----------



## Surf Monkey

samandhi said:


> Unlike yesteryear, it is difficult to wear buds without foams nowadays for two main reasons. They used to build the silicone ring into the buds (like the Apple Classic Earbuds), though not all of them did. Also, most of the ones coming out of China nowadays are just way too hot in the ear gain to be able to wear them without foams for any length of time (and with no fatigue).
> 
> I would prefer wearing mine without foams also, but I have yet to find a set that one or both of the above reasons keep me from doing so. If you do find that set, then congratulations to you.



Oh, I have no doubt that I’ll end up in the same place.


----------



## samandhi

Surf Monkey said:


> Oh, I have no doubt that I’ll end up in the same place.


Yeah, and those that CAN'T be cured with the denser foams (cough cough Smabat newer stuff), can't be cured with full silicones, or even putting double or triple layers. I know this because I have a set of the Modular Smabat M4 (very neat idea, poor execution), and I have a total of double layers of the dense(ist) foams I have, and also a silicone full on each one, and they are only JUST listenable, but now they are just too blunted in the treble also. LOL

Of all the buds I have at this point, only the Yinman 2.0 600, FiiO FF5, and Mooddrop Chaconne don't rely on a boosted ear gain to tune their treble. And of those the Yinman are the only ones closest to being able to listen via no foams (still can't though, they are made of wood, and are just too light to stay in your ears). The FiiO are too bulbous, and the cable is too heavy, pulling them out of your ears. And the Chaconne are WAY too heavy and weight imbalanced to stay in your ears.


----------



## samandhi (Dec 31, 2022)

As a matter of fact, with the Chaconne, even with full foams they are still too heavy when I am active so have to wear these with them:


----------



## o0genesis0o

Surf Monkey said:


> A detachable cable is definitely a benefit. As to foam, I’m up in the air about whether I’ll be using it moving forward. Foams on the X6 make them bassier for sure but when I can get them to stay in my ears without foam they sound great too. So with this specific set I’m going to try a couple silicon rings on them to see if I can get a diameter that fits better first. Then I’ll experiment with foams on either these or a future set. The ToneKing is on the way and I’m considering the FF5 for sure. Can’t really go wrong with FiiO.



I find FF5 to have two completely different signature depending on whether you use foam or silicone ring. With foam, you have a balanced, slightly thick and warm sound (I guess people can describe this as W shape). Without foam, it sounds very Etymotic-like. The shape of the sound stage also changes due to the response. I think FF3 would be more successful with silicone ring.

I should try that combo


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> I find FF5 to have two completely different signature depending on whether you use foam or silicone ring. With foam, you have a balanced, slightly thick and warm sound (I guess people can describe this as W shape). Without foam, it sounds very Etymotic-like. The shape of the sound stage also changes due to the response. I think FF3 would be more successful with silicone ring.
> 
> *I should try that combo  *


I did when I first got mine, and they actually remind me a tad of the Smabat buds. They are just too hot in the ear gain area (though otherwise they sound really good without the foams). YMMV as you don't seem as sensitive as I am in that area.


----------



## o0genesis0o

samandhi said:


> I did when I first got mine, and they actually remind me a tad of the Smabat buds. They are just too hot in the ear gain area (though otherwise they sound really good without the foams). YMMV as you don't seem as sensitive as I am in that area.


I seem to have a standard Harman or even DF ear-gain. My iPhone did a 3d scan of my face and ears recently to make a custom HRTF profile for spatial audio stuffs, and I was surprised how much it boosts the ear gain comparing to stock tuning of AirPods Pro (very inoffensive but correct tuning).


----------



## samandhi

o0genesis0o said:


> I seem to have a standard Harman or even DF ear-gain. My iPhone did a 3d scan of my face and ears recently to make a custom HRTF profile for spatial audio stuffs, and I was surprised how much it boosts the ear gain comparing to stock tuning of AirPods Pro (very inoffensive but correct tuning).


Very interesting to hear. I have yet to use the Linkbuds app (also for the spatial audio profile) to see what mine might look like, but I guess I should give it a try, if for no other reason than to see what it looks like.


----------



## Mustard

Thank you everyone for the recommendations! I will need to look into them more.

Audio equipment truly is a rabbit hole and I almost wish I could be blissfully ignorant again. If it's not the "upgrade-itch", then it's the "itch for something different" or if it's not either one of those, then it's "all aboard the hype train for a new product!". It also doesn't help that in this hobby more expensive does not equal better, and what others like, might not be what you like...

I guess it's all about the journey!


----------



## Surf Monkey

Mustard said:


> Thank you everyone for the recommendations! I will need to look into them more.
> 
> Audio equipment truly is a rabbit hole and I almost wish I could be blissfully ignorant again. If it's not the "upgrade-itch", then it's the "itch for something different" or if it's not either one of those, then it's "all aboard the hype train for a new product!". It also doesn't help that in this hobby more expensive does not equal better, and what others like, might not be what you like...
> 
> I guess it's all about the journey!



I think of it like this:

Headphones, IEMs and buds are speakers. Just like stereo speakers. Except that they also present you with a virtual sonic “room” to listen in. Each earphone headphone or bud is a  different set of speakers in a different room. 

So this (to me at least) begs the question: as an audio enthusiast why wouldn’t you want access to the widest possible range of speakers and virtual rooms to listen to them in?

That’s why I buy new sets. I like to have a wide variety of choices.


----------



## samandhi

Surf Monkey said:


> That’s why I buy new sets. I like to have a wide variety of choices.


Same here. I have a wide variety of sets, and only a very few are alike (and that is only because I never took the time to sell the lesser of the two off). All of which suite me at different times, when I feel a certain mood come upon me (or my ears are cleaner than the day before, etc... ).


----------



## Surf Monkey

samandhi said:


> Same here. I have a wide variety of sets, and only a very few are alike (and that is only because I never took the time to sell the lesser of the two off). All of which suite me at different times, when I feel a certain mood come upon me (or my ears are cleaner than the day before, etc... ).



Agree.

Also, I over night shipped some silicon gaskets for the X6. Sure enough. Better fit, worse bass, sharper treble. So now I’m on gaskets with the stock foams and it’s working pretty well. They stay seated better and the magic bass is back.


----------



## samandhi

Surf Monkey said:


> Agree.
> 
> Also, I over night shipped some silicon gaskets for the X6. Sure enough. Better fit, worse bass, sharper treble. So now I’m on gaskets with the stock foams and it’s working pretty well. They stay seated better and the magic bass is back.


Keep in mind that if you are still not getting the proper fit, there ARE other options (among those, the over-ear hooks I posted earlier, which might not fit the MX shell) or these:



Spoiler



Full silicones



Or earhooks that go over the head (while still keeping the foams on also) and fit into your ears (much like TWS earhooks):






It IS a bit of experimentation, but the good news is that they are very cheap to get (all of these things).


----------



## EJnP

samandhi said:


> Those are the very ones I was going to suggest. As for the mic, you would simply need to purchase an MMCX cable that has that feature, and you will have met ALL of your requirements.
> 
> For some reason I forgot that the FF3 have a fixed cable. The FF5 are the ones you might want. If you want more quantity of bass, the FF3 are better for you (though a fixed cable), but the FF5 meet all of your other requirements.


I'm not sure how to phrase this in a technical way, but I also have an HD 58X and I'm quite content with its bass when I don't need, in layman's terms, extra "oomph" in the bass department. Do you think the FF5 is comparable with the HD 58X when it comes to bass? Yours and o0genesis0o's replies are swaying me over to the FF5 over the FF3, and while I'm not exactly a basshead, I just worry about getting the FF5 and feeling like it's a bit lacking. 

On a side note, any suggestions for an MMCX cable with a pretty decent inline mic?


----------



## Carpet

Mustard said:


> Thank you everyone for the recommendations! I will need to look into them more.
> 
> Audio equipment truly is a rabbit hole and I almost wish I could be blissfully ignorant again. If it's not the "upgrade-itch", then it's the "itch for something different" or if it's not either one of those, then it's "all aboard the hype train for a new product!". It also doesn't help that in this hobby more expensive does not equal better, and what others like, might not be what you like...
> 
> I guess it's all about the journey!



You've figured that out in less than a week here. That puts the rest of us to shame! (well into insolvency anyway)


----------



## samandhi

EJnP said:


> I'm not sure how to phrase this in a technical way, but I also have an HD 58X and I'm quite content with its bass when I don't need, in layman's terms, extra "oomph" in the bass department. Do you think the FF5 is comparable with the HD 58X when it comes to bass? Yours and o0genesis0o's replies are swaying me over to the FF5 over the FF3, and while I'm not exactly a basshead, I just worry about getting the FF5 and feeling like it's a bit lacking.
> 
> On a side note, any suggestions for an MMCX cable with a pretty decent inline mic?


Actually, I would put the FF5 on a similar level as the HD5XX as for quantity of bass. Sennheiser has (normally) always been known for their neutral bass; neither boosted nor regressed. And to be honest, there is really nothing lacking in the FF5 IMO. I also wouldn't call them flat (that would be boring for some). They have peaks and valleys in all the right places to my ears. Keep in mind that they are not tuned to Harmon curve either (which Sennheiser also does not tune their mid to high end phones). 

Having said that, the FF5 actually have better texture and speed in the bass department than older tech (almost planar(ish) if you will). Add to that the fact that it has a bit of a boosted mid bass (to compensate for the slightly rolled off lower bass), and what you have is a great sounding bass that does have some body for everything except pure sub bass music. Keep in mind that it DOES have the sub bass, and it goes fairly deep, it is just at a much lower dB level then you could get from full sized headphones (they ARE very small speaker after all). Having said that, they still sound great with bassy songs, but I would not buy them if that were ALL you listened to (you could do better with the FF3). These lean towards analytical (like the Sennys) with some fun thrown in to keep them from being boring.

Actually, to my ears (I am listening to them now), the bass comes across as just a tad boosted (overall) and gives some warmth, and keeps most all songs from sounding boring, but not even close enough to become fatiguing (or be accused of being called a bass-head). Bottom line, is to me they seem just right (unless I am in the mood for my guilty pleasure, overly boosted sets ). As I have said on the FF5 thread, FiiO has figured out how to tune bass into earbuds, and these last two efforts are done wonderfully in that department. 


Carpet said:


> You've figured that out in less than a week here. That puts the rest of us to shame! (well into insolvency anyway)


I think I figured it out after the first day here, but I was in denial, and ignored that voice completely right up until the first day I had to sleep on the couch...


----------



## EJnP

samandhi said:


> Actually, I would put the FF5 on a similar level as the HD5XX as for quantity of bass. Sennheiser has (normally) always been known for their neutral bass; neither boosted nor regressed. And to be honest, there is really nothing lacking in the FF5 IMO. I also wouldn't call them flat (that would be boring for some). They have peaks and valleys in all the right places to my ears. Keep in mind that they are not tuned to Harmon curve either (which Sennheiser also does not tune their mid to high end phones).
> 
> Having said that, the FF5 actually have better texture and speed in the bass department than older tech (almost planar(ish) if you will). Add to that the fact that it has a bit of a boosted mid bass (to compensate for the slightly rolled off lower bass), and what you have is a great sounding bass that does have some body for everything except pure sub bass music. Keep in mind that it DOES have the sub bass, and it goes fairly deep, it is just at a much lower dB level then you could get from full sized headphones (they ARE very small speaker after all). Having said that, they still sound great with bassy songs, but I would not buy them if that were ALL you listened to (you could do better with the FF3). These lean towards analytical (like the Sennys) with some fun thrown in to keep them from being boring.
> 
> ...


Thank you! That was really helpful. My wallet would've preferred the FF3 but sounds like the FF5 may be worth the higher price tag after all. Really appreciate all the help I've received here, thanks again everyone!


----------



## samandhi

EJnP said:


> Thank you! That was really helpful. My wallet would've preferred the FF3 but sounds like the FF5 may be worth the higher price tag after all. Really appreciate all the help I've received here, thanks again everyone!


You are most welcome!

Having shared all the positives, you should know that there is (at least) one negative that could be a big deal, depending on your ear sizes and shapes. These are shaped in a bulbous way, and the cable is a bit heavy for the (super) light weight of the buds so there could potentially be an issue keeping them in your ears if you move around a lot. This says nothing about comfort. To me the comfort of these (and the FF3 as well) are supreme. 

Also, to your side note, I don't know of a "straight down" MMCX cable with a mic off the top of my head I was able to find a couple listed here, but you can always go here and have them make you one if you can't find one... They are known to make (fairly good) quality cables for a reasonable price.


----------



## baskingshark

Surf Monkey said:


> Agree.
> 
> Also, I over night shipped some silicon gaskets for the X6. Sure enough. Better fit, worse bass, sharper treble. So now I’m on gaskets with the stock foams and it’s working pretty well. They stay seated better and the magic bass is back.



Bro for some of these hard to fit earbuds, I have to resort to a silicone ring internally plus a foam over it. Or sometimes two layers of foams without a ring. Do experiment and see what suits you.


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> Bro for some of these hard to fit earbuds, I have to resort to a silicone ring internally plus a foam over it. Or sometimes two layers of foams without a ring. Do experiment and see what suits you.


That is a great point! For me, the silicone rings being on the outside actually slide (and therefore fits not as well) more than foams do. 

flathead earbuds will show you more than with any other head gear just how lop-sided your ear sizes/shapes are from each other (probably more so than you ever knew before).


----------



## Surf Monkey

baskingshark said:


> Bro for some of these hard to fit earbuds, I have to resort to a silicone ring internally plus a foam over it. Or sometimes two layers of foams without a ring. Do experiment and see what suits you.



It really is a lot more variables than IEM tips.


----------



## Gifting

Ronion said:


> That's definitely not the PK32, but it looks like a relative to the Red Film.  I'm leery of that driver because that description could very well mean "TREBLE HEAVY, NO BASS, RUN AWAY".  Then when people say 'I couldn't make it sound good' they can say 'you are not experienced enough'.  There's a chance that it's awesome aw well, but requires a fairly large sum of money.  By the time you buy good shells for that, you could easily have the 500Ohm Be and the 300Ohm DLC.  Both of which will likely sound better than that.  PK shells are expensive if you want the good ones--and you do want the good ones.


Thanks for the advice. I’ll stay away from that driver.

I have the 600Ohm Be in my cart, but I’m still hesitant to order it. I don’t think any of my gear can play such a high impedance bud. Meanwhile, I’ve been looking for a DAC/AMP and the IBasso DC06 catches my eye. Also the Questyle M12, the Atom 3, and VE Megatron. I mainly use my mobile phone when I listen to music. There are so many options! When I find a suitable DAC, I’ll order the 600 Ohm Be’s. 

Have a Happy New Year everyone!


----------



## Ronion

*Happy New Year Everyone!*

The VE Megatron will definitely drive it.  You should order that and a balanced plug for full effect.  I can give you the tuning formula for perfecting the pinna gain, with maximum bass depth and extended treble.    You can adjust from there, but I’ve definitely hit an incredible great starting point.  Well, okay… it’s literally my favorite audio I’ve heard.  You can have it for around $100.  The elbow plugs are much easier to solder FWIW.


----------



## wolfen68

samandhi said:


> Having said that, the FF5 actually have better texture and speed in the bass department than older tech (almost planar(ish) if you will). Add to that the fact that it has a bit of a boosted mid bass (to compensate for the slightly rolled off lower bass), and what you have is a great sounding bass that does have some body for everything except pure sub bass music. Keep in mind that it DOES have the sub bass, and it goes fairly deep, it is just at a much lower dB level then you could get from full sized headphones (they ARE very small speaker after all). Having said that, they still sound great with bassy songs, but I would not buy them if that were ALL you listened to (you could do better with the FF3). These lean towards analytical (like the Sennys) with some fun thrown in to keep them from being boring.
> 
> Actually, to my ears (I am listening to them now), the bass comes across as just a tad boosted (overall) and gives some warmth, and keeps most all songs from sounding boring, but not even close enough to become fatiguing (or be accused of being called a bass-head). Bottom line, is to me they seem just right (unless I am in the mood for my guilty pleasure, overly boosted sets ). As I have said on the FF5 thread, FiiO has figured out how to tune bass into earbuds, and these last two efforts are done wonderfully in that department.


I use the Senn 650 as my current day preferred reference and I'm really enjoying the FF3.  I'm torn whether to try the FF5, however I fatigue quickly from sparkly treble or any sibilance.  I was a big fan of RS-1's for years until I came to terms with the fact that I could only listen for 30 minutes until I was fatigued by its upfront presentation and treble energy 😢.  

The FF5 curves don't seem to indicate this problem but I wonder if the FF5 is truly a FF3 upgrade or just more likely to wear me out with treble.  Decisions, decisions...


----------



## Ronion

Ronion said:


> *Happy New Year Everyone!*
> 
> The VE Megatron will definitely drive it.  You should order that and a balanced plug for full effect.  I can give you the tuning formula for perfecting the pinna gain, with maximum bass depth and extended treble.    You can adjust from there, but I’ve definitely hit an incredible great starting point.  Well, okay… it’s literally my favorite audio I’ve heard.  You can have it for around $100.  The elbow plugs are much easier to solder FWIW.


I should add that the Megatron is rather quirky and doesn't have the largest soundstage and has reduced output above 10kHz than my amps that essentially measure perfect on other sites.  It is also loud at the first nudge of the volume in balanced mode--loud as in "unable to achieve low volume", but not loud as in "Turn that expletive DOWN!"  The cable that comes with it is too short for comfort, so ask them about their longer USB cables.  I've tried 8 other USB cables with the Megatron and none of them worked.  All the VE cables work on all my computers and tablets.  Also, others are able to get their Megatron to run off of cell phones, but not me.  It's cable finicky.  So it's not a portable solution IME.  It does however have POWER--and it seems like a lot of power particularly for something running off of a USB port.  It sounds a bit more etched and aggressive than most of my amps (barring my Schiit Asgard 2 and my now fallen hero FiiO e12MB), but that's actually what I like about it.  It gives me that character, timbre and separation and I love it even if I think it's possibly just a byproduct of increased distortion. Brass has bite, strings have rosin, singers have saliva in their throats, etc...  I really don't know exactly why it sounds like it does, but all my amps that measure really clean really don't have that sound and it's different from a laid back tube amp....  No measured performance is available so I'd hate to really guess "why".  I don't really like the Line out so much because it's even more of that character IMO/E, but I've only heard it through my FiiO A5.  Speaking of the FiiO A5, if you want neutral, powerful and portable, it's all those things but it does have a battery.  Mine is old, but still works perfectly (and definitely not for sale).  It's older brother, the e12MB just died a few months back however.


----------



## samandhi

wolfen68 said:


> I use the Senn 650 as my current day preferred reference and I'm really enjoying the FF3.  I'm torn whether to try the FF5, however I fatigue quickly from sparkly treble or any sibilance.  I was a big fan of RS-1's for years until I came to terms with the fact that I could only listen for 30 minutes until I was fatigued by its upfront presentation and treble energy 😢.
> 
> The FF5 curves don't seem to indicate this problem but I wonder if the FF5 is truly a FF3 upgrade or just more likely to wear me out with treble.  Decisions, decisions...


I can't speak to whether it will seem fatiguing to your ears or not, but I would look at it this way. The FF5 is tuned to about the same levels (at its largest peak) as the FF3 in a way, just in a different part of the spectrum. What they have done is lower the pina gain and instead tuned the treble properly (rather than relying on the ear gain to give the perceived treble that are more like the how the FF3 are tuned). 

While I am not sensitive to treble (much), I AM sensitive to sibilance which doesn't change with people's ears. Sibilance is heard statically, and everyone can hear when a set is, though some don't get fatigued as much as others do when they run across a set. Having said that, the FF5 are NOT sibilant, or even as treble heavy as a LOT of other sets I have heard. If you are a fan of Sennys then you might know what the HD800 sound like? These are not near as fatiguing as those. 

This is not to say that you may not get fatigued by the FF5, I just wanted to make sure you didn't get the wrong impression and let their treble presence get blown out of proportion. The treble does indeed have an airy presence to it, but it is still fairly neutral and linear in its sound. Put it that way. 

But, as always YMMV! I just wanted to lend a hand so that you can better make your own decision, and not (potentially) pass up a great set only to find out later that what you feared wasn't (again, potentially) true at all. 

Did any of that make any sense? I'm going back to bed....


----------



## Tromick (Jan 1, 2023)

Tromick said:


> I have used Sennheiser MX80, MX170, MX365, MX470. I always loved earbuds because it is comfortable (except that MX470). I have high-end over-ear headphones but they are not comfortable. Also i always loved Sennheiser's sound.
> 
> I tried TC300 and i become so sad. I wasted my time with Sennheiser earbuds. You and other people were saying that TC300 has same sound tune as Sennheiser MX series. Indeed! They have same sound tune. But much more upgraded version! Amazing sound stage and depth! Amazing bass/kick seperation, rich mid/up-bass, neutral highs, neutral mids. My ears are small so i was very cautious while buying them. Thankfully they are small like MX365! Sennheiser MX80 is little bit smaller than both.
> 
> ...



Hi everyone, again... I have used TC300 for 1,5 years then one day, while walking, I heard rattling soung from one side, then from other side. It just happened in 3 seconds. I don't know what happened but since then, one side does not working. I looked for new one to buy Fengru TC300 but UNFORTUNATELLY I have missed the last one in few days in September 2022. After asking about re-stock situation to the seller (at Aliexpress, CKLewis) for months, I have learned that the factory is closed. Since that hard day, I have been using my old Sennheiser MX365 which I am keeping it as my last fully working Sennheiser MX earbuds since whole MX serie is discountinued.

Right now TC200 available but I want it as last option. I really loved TC300's natural sound. Mid-bass were tight and above flat, gives a body to the sound without making it muddy. Mids were absolutely neutral and great. Treble was okay like how it should be. No sibilance yet full airy and open. Soundwise, It had great depth. Depth was absolutely amazing. Instrument seperation was avarage, you could not tell what instrument coming in which o'clock like TC200. Soundstage was also great. The only problem was driver size... I have used MX80 and whole other MX series. Except MX375, 475, 5XX, 8XX, 9XX, all drivers were small so, it could fit my ear. But these 500 serie earbuds does not fit my ear very well. I heard same complaints from other users on forum but there is no solution since nobody produce their own earbud driver.

Mostly, I LOVED it's dark sound which is same with classic Sennheiser sound signature. Is there any recommendings for me?


----------



## syazwaned

Tromick said:


> Hi everyone, again... I have used TC300 for 1,5 years then one day, while walking, I heard rattling soung from one side, then from other side. It just happened in 3 seconds. I don't know what happened but since then, one side does not working. I looked for new one to buy Fengru TC300 but UNFORTUNATELLY I have missed the last one in few days in September 2022. After asking about re-stock situation to the seller (at Aliexpress, CKLewis) for months, I have learned that the factory is closed. Since that hard day, I have been using my old Sennheiser MX365 which I am keeping it as my last fully working Sennheiser MX earbuds since whole MX serie is discountinued.
> 
> Right now TC200 available but I want it as last option. I really loved TC300's natural sound. Mid-bass were tight and above flat, gives a body to the sound without making it muddy. Mids were absolutely neutral and great. Treble was okay like how it should be. No sibilance yet full airy and open. Soundwise, It had great depth. Depth was absolutely amazing. Instrument seperation was avarage, you could not tell what instrument coming in which o'clock like TC200. Soundstage was also great. The only problem was driver size... I have used MX80 and whole other MX series. Except MX375, 475, 5XX, 8XX, 9XX, all drivers were small so, it could fit my ear. But these 500 serie earbuds does not fit my ear very well. I heard same complaints from other users on forum but there is no solution since nobody produce their own earbud driver.
> 
> Mostly, I LOVED it's dark sound which is same with classic Sennheiser sound signature. Is there any recommendings for me?


 Yinman 2.0 600 ohms


----------



## samandhi

Tromick said:


> Hi everyone, again... I have used TC300 for 1,5 years then one day, while walking, I heard rattling soung from one side, then from other side. It just happened in 3 seconds. I don't know what happened but since then, one side does not working. I looked for new one to buy Fengru TC300 but UNFORTUNATELLY I have missed the last one in few days in September 2022. After asking about re-stock situation to the seller (at Aliexpress, CKLewis) for months, I have learned that the factory is closed. Since that hard day, I have been using my old Sennheiser MX365 which I am keeping it as my last fully working Sennheiser MX earbuds since whole MX serie is discountinued.
> 
> Right now TC200 available but I want it as last option. I really loved TC300's natural sound. Mid-bass were tight and above flat, gives a body to the sound without making it muddy. Mids were absolutely neutral and great. Treble was okay like how it should be. No sibilance yet full airy and open. Soundwise, It had great depth. Depth was absolutely amazing. Instrument seperation was avarage, you could not tell what instrument coming in which o'clock like TC200. Soundstage was also great. The only problem was driver size... I have used MX80 and whole other MX series. Except MX375, 475, 5XX, 8XX, 9XX, all drivers were small so, it could fit my ear. But these 500 serie earbuds does not fit my ear very well. I heard same complaints from other users on forum but there is no solution since nobody produce their own earbud driver.
> 
> Mostly, I LOVED it's dark sound which is same with classic Sennheiser sound signature. Is there any recommendings for me?





syazwaned said:


> Yinman 2.0 600 ohms


Yep, sounds right to me. You can order them from here. Though, keep in mind that they don't look like the ones in the pictures on that site (though they are still wood shells). They just have never updated it. They look like this:


Spoiler









 And you will need to contact the seller on chat to tell them the type of connector you would like (2.5mm Bal, 3.5mm SE, or 4.4mm Bal)


----------



## Ronion (Jan 1, 2023)

error--see next post


----------



## Ronion

Tromick said:


> Hi everyone, again... I have used TC300 for 1,5 years then one day, while walking, I heard rattling soung from one side, then from other side. It just happened in 3 seconds. I don't know what happened but since then, one side does not working. I looked for new one to buy Fengru TC300 but UNFORTUNATELLY I have missed the last one in few days in September 2022. After asking about re-stock situation to the seller (at Aliexpress, CKLewis) for months, I have learned that the factory is closed. Since that hard day, I have been using my old Sennheiser MX365 which I am keeping it as my last fully working Sennheiser MX earbuds since whole MX serie is discountinued.
> 
> Right now TC200 available but I want it as last option. I really loved TC300's natural sound. Mid-bass were tight and above flat, gives a body to the sound without making it muddy. Mids were absolutely neutral and great. Treble was okay like how it should be. No sibilance yet full airy and open. Soundwise, It had great depth. Depth was absolutely amazing. Instrument seperation was avarage, you could not tell what instrument coming in which o'clock like TC200. Soundstage was also great. The only problem was driver size... I have used MX80 and whole other MX series. Except MX375, 475, 5XX, 8XX, 9XX, all drivers were small so, it could fit my ear. But these 500 serie earbuds does not fit my ear very well. I heard same complaints from other users on forum but there is no solution since nobody produce their own earbud driver.
> 
> Mostly, I LOVED it's dark sound which is same with classic Sennheiser sound signature. Is there any recommendings for me?


My first question would be: how much do you want to spend?
2) do you have an amp?  If so, what kind of power are we looking at?
3) what do you prioritize: soundstage, separation, or frequency response?


----------



## mt877

drewbadour said:


> For those of you curious, the stem is the perfect length for a great fit with UTWS5!
> 
> This fact alone will likely make this the set that gets the most ear time now


Attached my FF5 to my UTWS5. As you mentioned, it's the perfect comfortable fit. Very stable in my ears versus using the cable and great sound too.


----------



## mt877

fooltoque said:


> My daughter uses headphones into the ground.
> "Want me to get you a new one?"
> *"*No, it's fine."


She respects her hard working Tou-san and doesn't want to trouble you... we know what good Tou-san's do for their kids... Time for an upgrade.


----------



## mt877

EJnP said:


> I'm not sure how to phrase this in a technical way, but I also have an HD 58X and I'm quite content with its bass when I don't need, in layman's terms, extra "oomph" in the bass department. Do you think the FF5 is comparable with the HD 58X when it comes to bass? Yours and o0genesis0o's replies are swaying me over to the FF5 over the FF3, and while I'm not exactly a basshead, I just worry about getting the FF5 and feeling like it's a bit lacking.
> 
> On a side note, any suggestions for an MMCX cable with a pretty decent inline mic?


Here's a couple nice 3.5mm cables with microphone from AliExpress:

8 Strand MMCX Detachable Earphones Cable DIY Upgrading Cable
3.5mm Headphone Audio Cable Silver Plated MMCX Cable with Microphone

If you want a very reasonable cost, nice sounding set of buds with included 3.5mm cable with microphone, try this:

3.5mm MMCX Flat Headphones 8 Strand Metal Shell Earphones Titanium/ LCP Diaphragm Drivers Earphones (AKA NSC Audio 80Ω LCP)

The 80Ω LCP with cable is recommended. Several people including myself got these buds and they do sound good. I didn't get the 80Ω LCP set with cable because I have extra cables with MMCX terminations.


----------



## Tromick (Jan 2, 2023)

syazwaned said:


> Yinman 2.0 600 ohms





samandhi said:


> Yep, sounds right to me. You can order them from here. Though, keep in mind that they don't look like the ones in the pictures on that site (though they are still wood shells). They just have never updated it. They look like this:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





Ronion said:


> My first question would be: how much do you want to spend?
> 2) do you have an amp?  If so, what kind of power are we looking at?
> 3) what do you prioritize: soundstage, separation, or frequency response?


Thank you for your comments guys but this is a little bit expensive. I am looking for that dark Sennheiser sound signature. And most important, natural sound. I want my TC300 back. 

That rich, fuller yet not shouty mids, normal trebles, no sibilance yet full airy and open, making sound crystal clear without killing hi-hats' or sound effects', reverb's neutral timbre. Peak at mid-bass, giving a body to sound yet does not making it muddy or leaking into mids. Up-bass is normal which is it does not leak into mids and male vocals sound right at all! Sub-bass is there but not emphasised like closed-back headphones.

Soundsignature was absolutely my favorite, dark, Sennheiser. Soundstage was okay, not the widest but how it should be at LEAST. Depth was amazing! Instrument seperation was okay.


----------



## fooltoque

wolfen68 said:


> I use the Senn 650 as my current day preferred reference and I'm really enjoying the FF3.  I'm torn whether to try the FF5, however I fatigue quickly from sparkly treble or any sibilance.  I was a big fan of RS-1's for years until I came to terms with the fact that I could only listen for 30 minutes until I was fatigued by its upfront presentation and treble energy 😢.
> 
> The FF5 curves don't seem to indicate this problem but I wonder if the FF5 is truly a FF3 upgrade or just more likely to wear me out with treble.  Decisions, decisions...


I am actually slightly fatigued by the FF3 but not at all by the FF5. They are the last fatiguing headphones I've owned.


mt877 said:


> Attached my FF5 to my UTWS5. As you mentioned, it's the perfect comfortable fit. Very stable in my ears versus using the cable and great sound too.


I got my UTWS5 in as well and attached to FF5. It really does work great. Ideally I like having the cable but practically speaking the wireless solution is really well done and way more  convenient for most situations. I do feel a bit dorky with them on though.


----------



## baskingshark

Tromick said:


> Thank you for your comments guys but this is a little bit expensive. I am looking for that dark Sennheiser sound signature. And most important, natural sound. I want my TC300 back.
> 
> That rich, fuller yet not shouty mids, normal trebles, no sibilance yet full airy and open, making sound crystal clear without killing hi-hats' or sound effects', reverb's neutral timbre. Peak at mid-bass, giving a body to sound yet does not making it muddy or leaking into mids. Up-bass is normal which is it does not leak into mids and male vocals sound right at all! Sub-bass is there but not emphasised like closed-back headphones.
> 
> Soundsignature was absolutely my favorite, dark, Sennheiser. Soundstage was okay, not the widest but how it should be at LEAST. Depth was amazing! Instrument seperation was okay.



Maybe you can read about the NiceHCK EB2S. It reminds me of the Senn HD650 in terms of tonality and timbre (isn't as great technically of course). Very natural sounding, quite smooth and fatigue free, lush analoguish sound.


----------



## wolfen68

samandhi said:


> Did any of that make any sense? I'm going back to bed....


Absolutely, thanks for your impressions.


----------



## EJnP

mt877 said:


> Here's a couple nice 3.5mm cables with microphone from AliExpress:
> 
> 8 Strand MMCX Detachable Earphones Cable DIY Upgrading Cable
> 3.5mm Headphone Audio Cable Silver Plated MMCX Cable with Microphone
> ...


Thank you for the suggestions! I'll definitely check these out!


----------



## houaiss (Jan 3, 2023)

Hi all! I'm happy to be here . My first earbud was an Yuin pk2 that I really liked it, but after almost three years the wire got cut off. So I bought a IEM (KZ EDX) and I didn't like it at all. I found the sound to be very different from the pk2 and I felt the bass very weak. After that, I bought a JVC gumy HA-F160. I was gladly surprised because it reminded me of the sound I had with the pk2. Now I'm planning to buy a RY4S plus mmcx MX500. Hope I enjoy that one too!


----------



## Ronion

Tromick said:


> Thank you for your comments guys but this is a little bit expensive. I am looking for that dark Sennheiser sound signature. And most important, natural sound. I want my TC300 back.
> 
> That rich, fuller yet not shouty mids, normal trebles, no sibilance yet full airy and open, making sound crystal clear without killing hi-hats' or sound effects', reverb's neutral timbre. Peak at mid-bass, giving a body to sound yet does not making it muddy or leaking into mids. Up-bass is normal which is it does not leak into mids and male vocals sound right at all! Sub-bass is there but not emphasised like closed-back headphones.
> 
> Soundsignature was absolutely my favorite, dark, Sennheiser. Soundstage was okay, not the widest but how it should be at LEAST. Depth was amazing! Instrument seperation was okay.


HE150 from Penon.


----------



## jogawag

Ronion said:


> HE150 from Penon.


HE150 is good, but Out of Stock.
https://penonaudio.com/he-150ohm.html


----------



## Surf Monkey (Jan 2, 2023)

jogawag said:


> HE150 is good, but Out of Stock.
> https://penonaudio.com/he-150ohm.html



EDIT: you’re right. Out of stock.


----------



## FranQL

Surf Monkey said:


> EDIT: you’re right. Out of stock.


Well that's a shame, HE150 is a great value for the price....what budget are you looking at? Another great budget bud is Ksearphone K64....


----------



## Surf Monkey (Jan 2, 2023)

Well, these Yincrow X6 phones are real winners for sure. I’m using them with silicon gaskets under stock foams right now and it’s very good. The fit is solid and the sound is perfect. THICK and textured bass. Nice mid forward presentation generally. Sparkly treble with good detail and most surprising of all, pretty great separation to boot.

I know these are old news for most of the buds crowd, but they deserve the spotlight. For around $10 these are easily as good as several of my vastly pricier IEMs.


----------



## Carpet

Surf Monkey said:


> Well, these Yincrow X6 phones are real winners for sure. I’m using them with silicon gaskets under stock foams right now and it’s very good. The sit is solid and the sound is perfect. THICK and textured bass. Nice mid forward presentation generally. Sparkly treble with good detail and most surprising of all, pretty great separation to boot.
> 
> I know these are old news for most of the buds crowd, but they deserve the spotlight. For around $10 these are easily as good as several of my vastly pricier IEMs.


Cheap enough to capture my attention after budgetary indiscretions over Xmas! 

TRN EMA was a ... disappointment.


----------



## FranQL

Carpet said:


> Cheap enough to capture my attention after budgetary indiscretions over Xmas!
> 
> TRN EMA was a ... disappointment.



you can buy VIDO which is exactly the same and even cheaper.


----------



## ShaneyMac

FranQL said:


> Another great budget bud is Ksearphone K64....


... WAS great bud... Unfortunately these are out of stock, too. Probably discontinued. What a shame, indeed...


----------



## Surf Monkey

Carpet said:


> Cheap enough to capture my attention after budgetary indiscretions over Xmas!
> 
> TRN EMA was a ... disappointment.



For real. Best $10 I spent all year.


----------



## SuperMAG

Surf Monkey said:


> Well, these Yincrow X6 phones are real winners for sure. I’m using them with silicon gaskets under stock foams right now and it’s very good. The fit is solid and the sound is perfect. THICK and textured bass. Nice mid forward presentation generally. Sparkly treble with good detail and most surprising of all, pretty great separation to boot.
> 
> I know these are old news for most of the buds crowd, but they deserve the spotlight. For around $10 these are easily as good as several of my vastly pricier IEMs.


Agreed with this, I have bought monk plus and thought those were great then bought vidos, monk were better then bought the emx500 which were the best and much better then both vido and monk.

Then few months ago, I bought this x6 and emx500 again as mine was torn by my kid. And I was never shocked like this, these has huge soundstage and presentation and every sound is thick and big but also clear, I was totally in love, thought I found my endgame that's worth only 10$.

But then everyone was raving about ff3 and I felt being left out, and I finally caved at 11/11, bought for only 61$.

Don't get me wrong FF3 are good but X6 is equally good in some things and better or worse in others and the price difference is no way worth it, but I dont regret ff3, the bass on these things is ridiculous but I wanted more resolution but oh well these are not bad.

I will post my comparison later, but for those who say vido are cheaper and same, A big NO, they are not, I have like 4 different vido, they are not same at all.

Yincow X6 so far to me are the best 10$ you can spend on earbuds, planning on buying another as backup set.


----------



## Surf Monkey

SuperMAG said:


> Agreed with this, I have bought monk plus and thought those were great then bought vidos, monk were better then bought the emx500 which were the best and much better then both vido and monk.
> 
> Then few months ago, I bought this x6 and emx500 again as mine was torn by my kid. And I was never shocked like this, these has huge soundstage and presentation and every sound is thick and big but also clear, I was totally in love, thought I found my endgame that's worth only 10$.
> 
> ...



Truth. They sound great. They remind me a lot of the IKKO OH10, even though that’s an IEM. I continue to be stunned by how big the sound is coming out of these.


----------



## Ronion

What is with all these high value buds being out of stock...

The Vido and the X6 used to have the same driver and tuning...... I haven't kept up on these things but I do have an X6.


----------



## ttorbic

Not quite audio related, but fascinating nevertheless: https://www-wired-com.cdn.ampprojec...-to-get-in-your-ears-and-watch-your-brain/amp

They use a laser 3D scanner to build custom moulds! @o0genesis0o @Ronion you two would especially dig this


----------



## SuperMAG

Ronion said:


> What is with all these high value buds being out of stock...
> 
> The Vido and the X6 used to have the same driver and tuning...... I haven't kept up on these things but I do have an X6.


I have old and new versions of vido and colored versions, the sound is completely different from X6.


----------



## o0genesis0o

ttorbic said:


> Not quite audio related, but fascinating nevertheless: https://www-wired-com.cdn.ampprojec...-to-get-in-your-ears-and-watch-your-brain/amp
> 
> They use a laser 3D scanner to build custom moulds! @o0genesis0o @Ronion you two would especially dig this



Thanks for sharing! Fascinating indeed. I am impressed by the resourcefulness and initiative of the project lead to continue the project despite all the cancellations. A role model for struggling academics like myself, I would say.

AFAIK, the 3d scanning for in ears have been around for a decade or so. I have seen a video from ultimate ears with the same kind of device. Apple does that with the LIDAR nowadays. If you have AirPods Pro and iPhone, you can activate the personalised spatial sound and use the phone to make a 3d scan of your head and ears. In my case, I hear a noticeably increase in ear gain region. When the mix hits just right, the effect of this personalised HRTF can be very uncanny, like the sound actually appears in the room.


----------



## ValSuki

I would like to ask a general question!
What do you all consider to be a TOTL earbud, whether you believe in it or not, thats currently available or was!


----------



## baskingshark

ValSuki said:


> I would like to ask a general question!
> What do you all consider to be a TOTL earbud, whether you believe in it or not, thats currently available or was!


I would consider earbuds like the Yincrow RW2000 to be the kind of benchmark in sound if I would term something as TOTL in the earbud world.

Generally, I would consider $100USD and above as the TOTL bracket for earbuds. But certainly price doesn't correlate with sound quality, there are some very expensive earbuds that are stinkers (eg Smabat ST20 Pro), and cheaper stuff that are very good sounding. The DIY stuff some of our esteemed DIYers here make arguably give excellent sound for low price, definitely more cost effective than some of the so called TOTL buds from the usual big name manufacturers.


----------



## ttorbic

o0genesis0o said:


> Thanks for sharing! Fascinating indeed. I am impressed by the resourcefulness and initiative of the project lead to continue the project despite all the cancellations. A role model for struggling academics like myself, I would say.
> 
> AFAIK, the 3d scanning for in ears have been around for a decade or so. I have seen a video from ultimate ears with the same kind of device. Apple does that with the LIDAR nowadays. If you have AirPods Pro and iPhone, you can activate the personalised spatial sound and use the phone to make a 3d scan of your head and ears. In my case, I hear a noticeably increase in ear gain region. When the mix hits just right, the effect of this personalised HRTF can be very uncanny, like the sound actually appears in the room.


Haha I'm a former-struggling academic, now a less struggling but still insecure scientist in industry 😂 the pace of R&D  in huge tech companies like Google is just mind boggling. I'm glad they're collaborating with academic labs - really need those deep insights as well as practical answers during development


----------



## FranQL (Jan 3, 2023)

SuperMAG said:


> Agreed with this, I have bought monk plus and thought those were great then bought vidos, monk were better then bought the emx500 which were the best and much better then both vido and monk.
> 
> Then few months ago, I bought this x6 and emx500 again as mine was torn by my kid. And I was never shocked like this, these has huge soundstage and presentation and every sound is thick and big but also clear, I was totally in love, thought I found my endgame that's worth only 10$.
> 
> ...


Yeeeeeep, I affirm that they are absolutely the same, that is, the same shell, the same driver and the same setting. I'm not going to get into intangibles, or what each person's mind can perceive... but the difference between Vido and X6 is as big as it can be from one unit of X6 to another X6. Or maybe the cable also works its magic... in that case we would already enter into another debate, in which I can contribute very little.


----------



## ValSuki

baskingshark said:


> I would consider earbuds like the Yincrow RW2000 to be the kind of benchmark in sound if I would term something as TOTL in the earbud world.
> 
> Generally, I would consider $100USD and above as the TOTL bracket for earbuds. But certainly price doesn't correlate with sound quality, there are some very expensive earbuds that are stinkers (eg Smabat ST20 Pro), and cheaper stuff that are very good sounding. The DIY stuff some of our esteemed DIYers here make arguably give excellent sound for low price, definitely more cost effective than some of the so called TOTL buds from the usual big name manufacturers.


Thanks for the response! Never expected someone to reply.

I've found that DIY has indeed been taking over the higher bud priced names. Which in a way is a good and bad thing, but i would like to see buds being picked up again by manufacturers in some capacity. I'm planning on working with some groups to make a high end bud myself, but thats for another day! 

For now, all I really do is endlessly experiment with acoustics and so on in buds!


----------



## FranQL

ValSuki said:


> I would like to ask a general question!
> What do you all consider to be a TOTL earbud, whether you believe in it or not, thats currently available or was!



It's not that I don't want to answer, it's that maybe my tastes aren't the most appropriate to say that something is or isn't TOLT, I have a great facility to say what I don't like or what is wrong when I hear any thing (IMO), but once everything is in place I can't say things like "holographic" (because there can't be that term for sound), or certain technical terms by which people can bring something to god level.

An example is LBB / LBBs, it just seemed rubbish to me, and it is a beloved and loved bud by many.

In summary, something tolt for me cannot be a reference for anything or anyone, and the buds that I consider TOLT are the ones that make me listen to music and while I think... uff my goodness, how does this sound!


----------



## baskingshark

ValSuki said:


> Thanks for the response! Never expected someone to reply.
> 
> I've found that DIY has indeed been taking over the higher bud priced names. Which in a way is a good and bad thing, but i would like to see buds being picked up again by manufacturers in some capacity. I'm planning on working with some groups to make a high end bud myself, but thats for another day!
> 
> For now, all I really do is endlessly experiment with acoustics and so on in buds!



Good luck with your DIY projects. I remember you were making a planar earbud right? How is the progress?


With regards to manufacturers focusing on earbuds, sadly, I think they might do R&D mostly in IEMs and headphones, or even TWS, rather than earbuds. Earbuds are probably too niche for the manufacturers, I think there's not a huge market pie for them to readily invest time and money into making earbuds.

We have exceptions with Fiio making the FF3 and FF5 recently, but most of the big boys still churn out IEMs faster than earbuds. Haha anyway, we'll keep this earbud audio nirvana as our little secret here, it might be good in a way that earbuds aren't so mainstream. I get jaded now seeing budget IEMs being dumped on a weekly basis, and majority are just sidegrades that are forgotten after a few weeks.


----------



## Headcasey MD

Tromick said:


> Hi everyone, again... I have used TC300 for 1,5 years then one day, while walking, I heard rattling soung from one side, then from other side. It just happened in 3 seconds. I don't know what happened but since then, one side does not working. I looked for new one to buy Fengru TC300 but UNFORTUNATELLY I have missed the last one in few days in September 2022. After asking about re-stock situation to the seller (at Aliexpress, CKLewis) for months, I have learned that the factory is closed. Since that hard day, I have been using my old Sennheiser MX365 which I am keeping it as my last fully working Sennheiser MX earbuds since whole MX serie is discountinued.
> 
> Right now TC200 available but I want it as last option. I really loved TC300's natural sound. Mid-bass were tight and above flat, gives a body to the sound without making it muddy. Mids were absolutely neutral and great. Treble was okay like how it should be. No sibilance yet full airy and open. Soundwise, It had great depth. Depth was absolutely amazing. Instrument seperation was avarage, you could not tell what instrument coming in which o'clock like TC200. Soundstage was also great. The only problem was driver size... I have used MX80 and whole other MX series. Except MX375, 475, 5XX, 8XX, 9XX, all drivers were small so, it could fit my ear. But these 500 serie earbuds does not fit my ear very well. I heard same complaints from other users on forum but there is no solution since nobody produce their own earbud driver.
> 
> Mostly, I LOVED it's dark sound which is same with classic Sennheiser sound signature. Is there any recommendings for me?


Maybe try https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803886261908.html.  Sounds like you describe.  Look for yourself on fit.  Qigom 300 ohm driver.  Budget Ks K300 (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255801104924172.html).


----------



## ValSuki

FranQL said:


> It's not that I don't want to answer, it's that maybe my tastes aren't the most appropriate to say that something is or isn't TOLT, I have a great facility to say what I don't like or what is wrong when I hear any thing (IMO), but once everything is in place I can't say things like "holographic" (because there can't be that term for sound), or certain technical terms by which people can bring something to god level.
> 
> An example is LBB / LBBs, it just seemed rubbish to me, and it is a beloved and loved bud by many.
> 
> In summary, something tolt for me cannot be a reference for anything or anyone, and the buds that I consider TOLT are the ones that make me listen to music and while I think... uff my goodness, how does this sound!


Honestly, please do not feel you cannot contribute an opinion to a question! I value all opinions in this thread carefully and this is something I like to see. The LBB is pretty poor imo, and LBBs is ok, not my taste.



baskingshark said:


> Good luck with your DIY projects. I remember you were making a planar earbud right? How is the progress?
> 
> 
> With regards to manufacturers focusing on earbuds, sadly, I think they might do R&D mostly in IEMs and headphones, or even TWS, rather than earbuds. Earbuds are probably too niche for the manufacturers, I think there's not a huge market pie for them to readily invest time and money into making earbuds.
> ...


For the planar bud, I have a few ideas on my table im going to work on for it. It'll be a one of a kind earbud, using a DD and planar with potentially the first earbud with an iem like crossover. However, it may take time.

And you're right! Im glad earbuds arent mainstream because its allowed communities to form around such a niche transducer for us. Probably how DIYers have made it this far!


----------



## samandhi

Surf Monkey said:


> Well, these Yincrow X6 phones are real winners for sure. I’m using them with silicon gaskets under stock foams right now and it’s very good. The fit is solid and the sound is perfect. THICK and textured bass. Nice mid forward presentation generally. Sparkly treble with good detail and most surprising of all, pretty great separation to boot.
> 
> I know these are old news for most of the buds crowd, but they deserve the spotlight. For around $10 these are easily as good as several of my vastly pricier IEMs.


Don't sweat it at all. If you read quite a ways back in this thread, you would see that the X6 were a big deal around here. So big, that if you talked bad about them at that time, people on here would threaten to sic Chuck Norris on you..  


ValSuki said:


> I would like to ask a general question!
> What do you all consider to be a TOTL earbud, whether you believe in it or not, thats currently available or was!


For me there are many, not because of their price (though most are up in that price range anyhow), but because I find them to be, to my ears in some way or another (or in some cases many).


Yinman 2.0 600
Yincrow RW3000
Yincrow RW2000
Moondrop Chaconne
FiiO FF3
Fii0 FF5
Smabat ST10S B&G (150ohm edition)


----------



## syazwaned

ValSuki said:


> I would like to ask a general question!
> What do you all consider to be a TOTL earbud, whether you believe in it or not, thats currently available or was!


Yinman 2.0 600 ohms for me considered as totl tuning. It ticks all of my boxes
Dark signature,
Great treble extension
Relaxing Timbre
Scale with power.


----------



## samandhi (Jan 3, 2023)

syazwaned said:


> Yinman 2.0 600 ohms for me considered as totl tuning. It ticks all of my boxes
> Dark signature,
> Great treble extension
> Relaxing Timbre
> Scale with power.


Interesting how we all hear things differently. Ironically, even though we hear the Yinman differently they are on top of both of our lists... And it ticks all of my boxes as well. 

I hear them as:
A warm signature (which I suppose is close to dark except the mid and especially upper bass are the more prominent to my ears),
Great treble extension (tertiary signature)
Relaxed timbre, but great clarity at the same time (so not really dark for me, though the bass CAN be prominent)
Scale with power.


----------



## Tromick

ounwx said:


> *Intro and Biases*
> I just started looking at this forum, and cheap buds in general, within the last couple months. I’ve used Sennheiser MX365s for years without really knowing of any decent, affordable alternatives. So needless to say, I’ve jumped into amassing these ChiFi buds pretty quickly, and my impressions could change with time.
> 
> I’m making this post to help people who were in my recent situation: trying to figure out what’s worth ordering, but information is scattered all over the place in different threads and posts. Hopefully, having a reference where the same listener directly compares a lot of popular options is helpful, even if it’s only one perspective at the end of the day. Certainly feel free to ask questions or for more clarification on differences between pairs I’ve reviewed; I’ll probably be around quite a bit at least in the short term.
> ...





Tromick said:


> Hi everyone, again... I have used TC300 for 1,5 years then one day, while walking, I heard rattling soung from one side, then from other side. It just happened in 3 seconds. I don't know what happened but since then, one side does not working. I looked for new one to buy Fengru TC300 but UNFORTUNATELLY I have missed the last one in few days in September 2022. After asking about re-stock situation to the seller (at Aliexpress, CKLewis) for months, I have learned that the factory is closed. Since that hard day, I have been using my old Sennheiser MX365 which I am keeping it as my last fully working Sennheiser MX earbuds since whole MX serie is discountinued.
> 
> Right now TC200 available but I want it as last option. I really loved TC300's natural sound. Mid-bass were tight and above flat, gives a body to the sound without making it muddy. Mids were absolutely neutral and great. Treble was okay like how it should be. No sibilance yet full airy and open. Soundwise, It had great depth. Depth was absolutely amazing. Instrument seperation was avarage, you could not tell what instrument coming in which o'clock like TC200. Soundstage was also great. The only problem was driver size... I have used MX80 and whole other MX series. Except MX375, 475, 5XX, 8XX, 9XX, all drivers were small so, it could fit my ear. But these 500 serie earbuds does not fit my ear very well. I heard same complaints from other users on forum but there is no solution since nobody produce their own earbud driver.
> 
> Mostly, I LOVED it's dark sound which is same with classic Sennheiser sound signature. Is there any recommendings for me?





Tromick said:


> Thank you for your comments guys but this is a little bit expensive. I am looking for that dark Sennheiser sound signature. And most important, natural sound. I want my TC300 back.
> 
> That rich, fuller yet not shouty mids, normal trebles, no sibilance yet full airy and open, making sound crystal clear without killing hi-hats' or sound effects', reverb's neutral timbre. Peak at mid-bass, giving a body to sound yet does not making it muddy or leaking into mids. Up-bass is normal which is it does not leak into mids and male vocals sound right at all! Sub-bass is there but not emphasised like closed-back headphones.
> 
> Soundsignature was absolutely my favorite, dark, Sennheiser. Soundstage was okay, not the widest but how it should be at LEAST. Depth was amazing! Instrument seperation was okay.



I bought FAAEAL Snow-Lotus 1.0 and NiceHCK EB2S. I hope there is no difference for FAAEAL since I actually wanted Snow-Lotus 1.0+ version. Let's see... I will reply this in the future!

-Why I don't want to pay too much for earbuds?
+First of all, I am Turkish. We were buying earbuds in bazaar in 90s, early 2000s. This was cheap solution for the music lovers who listens music on cassette players/portable radios. I know how much capacity they can get in the normal situation so I don't want to pay too much because it is called Hi-Fi or whatever. I saw too many example or comments which cheap earbuds compared to expensive/brand ones.


----------



## Surf Monkey

Tromick said:


> I bought FAAEAL Snow-Lotus 1.0 and NiceHCK EB2S. I hope there is no difference for FAAEAL since I actually wanted Snow-Lotus 1.0+ version. Let's see... I will reply this in the future!
> 
> -Why I don't want to pay too much for earbuds?
> +First of all, I am Turkish. We were buying earbuds in bazaar in 90s, early 2000s. This was cheap solution for the music lovers who listens music on cassette players/portable radios. I know how much capacity they can get in the normal situation so I don't want to pay too much because it is called Hi-Fi or whatever. I saw too many example or comments which cheap earbuds compared to expensive/brand ones.



Smart.


----------



## samandhi

Tromick said:


> I bought FAAEAL Snow-Lotus 1.0 and NiceHCK EB2S. I hope there is no difference for FAAEAL since I actually wanted Snow-Lotus 1.0+ version. Let's see... I will reply this in the future!
> 
> -Why I don't want to pay too much for earbuds?
> +First of all, I am Turkish. We were buying earbuds in bazaar in 90s, early 2000s. This was cheap solution for the music lovers who listens music on cassette players/portable radios. I know how much capacity they can get in the normal situation so I don't want to pay too much because it is called Hi-Fi or whatever. I saw too many example or comments which cheap earbuds compared to expensive/brand ones.


There is nothing wrong with wanting to save some money, but keep in mind that the earbuds (at least the ones I recommend) do indeed sound leagues ahead of the two that you named weather they are actually called Hi-Fi or not.  Both of those that you bought are pretty good, but it is the same as saying a set of IEMs or headphones is pretty good compared to TOTL. 

I don't own the Lotus (though I have auditioned them), but they have an overall decent sound, if a bit congested. It has been a few years now since hearing them, so my memory could be a bit faulty. The EB2S, I still own, and I really do like them. They are like a less refined version of the Smabat M2S Pro (a mid-tier offering) but are just a bit more thin and hollow sounding (not totally in a bad way though). For the money, they are both good choices IMO. I truly hope you enjoy them both. 

I will have to say though, that unless you have listened to earbuds in the last 5-10 years, you may be shocked at how far they have come since the 90s-2000s. Some of the ones I have listed as TOTL can rival some open back headphones in most categories (except for being large ).


----------



## Tromick

samandhi said:


> There is nothing wrong with wanting to save some money, but keep in mind that the earbuds (at least the ones I recommend) do indeed sound leagues ahead of the two that you named weather they are actually called Hi-Fi or not.  Both of those that you bought are pretty good, but it is the same as saying a set of IEMs or headphones is pretty good compared to TOTL.
> 
> I don't own the Lotus (though I have auditioned them), but they have an overall decent sound, if a bit congested. It has been a few years now since hearing them, so my memory could be a bit faulty. The EB2S, I still own, and I really do like them. They are like a less refined version of the Smabat M2S Pro (a mid-tier offering) but are just a bit more thin and hollow sounding (not totally in a bad way though). For the money, they are both good choices IMO. I truly hope you enjoy them both.
> 
> I will have to say though, that unless you have listened to earbuds in the last 5-10 years, you may be shocked at how far they have come since the 90s-2000s. Some of the ones I have listed as TOTL can rival some open back headphones in most categories (except for being large ).



You are absolutely right about everything you said BUT there is a fact that earbuds can be the most forgiving headphone types. You ear gets used to it. Yes, some of them capable of giving details but if you are going to use it as everyday driver, outside, work, street, bus and sometimes home. There is no real point of buying something over XX bucks.


----------



## samandhi

Tromick said:


> You are absolutely right about everything you said BUT there is a fact that earbuds can be the most forgiving headphone types. You ear gets used to it. Yes, some of them capable of giving details but if you are going to use it as everyday driver, outside, work, street, bus and sometimes home. There is no real point of buying something over XX bucks.


I totally get that. After all, it is pretty difficult to do any sort of critical listening while in those situations (especially with open type transducers such as earbuds). It seems as though you made the right choice both for your ears, AND your wallet... 

As long as you don't mind a pretty hefty boost in the pina gain region, you will definitely like the EB2S. Hopefully having to turn them up (invoking the nasty Munson Curve) won't fatigue you too much. But with earbuds, there aren't a lot of choices that DON'T have that nowadays (even the expensive ones). Do let us know how you fare with them?!


----------



## syazwaned

samandhi said:


> Interesting how we all hear things differently. Ironically, even though we hear the Yinman differently they are on top of both of our lists... And it ticks all of my boxes as well.
> 
> I hear them as:
> A warm signature (which I suppose is close to dark except the mid and especially upper bass are the more prominent to my ears),
> ...


haha maybe I just confused between dark and warm, mainly my fault bro


----------



## samandhi

syazwaned said:


> haha maybe I just confused between dark and warm, mainly my fault bro


No, not at all.. (my ears ARE getting old haha). 

There can be a pretty fine line between dark and warm where our ears are concerned sometimes. If you hear them as having blunted treble, but are bass heavy, especially in the sub region (e.g. Sony house tuning) then they would definitely be dark. The only real difference here is that warm is (also) considered bass heavy, whether a little or a lot, except in most cases it is the upper bass that adds that warmth to the mids or overall tone, all while still having whatever treble they tuned into it. They can STILL have blunted treble also, but to my ears they aren't on this set. Granted the treble on these is NOT analytical boosted, they still remain focused and clear... But keep in mind, that is MY take on them, and someone like @JAnonymous5150 found them to be too blunted in the treble region for his liking. I found that if they had more prominent treble it would negatively impact the bass to a point that they might sound too much like a V (which they decidedly are not to my ears). 

Adjectives assigned to describe the sound you hear, in words is not exact because really... how DO you describe what you are hearing in an easy way? But the bottom line is that we both agree that at the end of the day, regardless of a "tag" placed on them, they are marvelous earbuds (to us), and that is what is the most important IMHO. And until I hear better, these are still on top of my lists as all time favorites, as far as I am concerned. 

Enjoy the music brother!


----------



## Gifting

Ronion said:


> *Happy New Year Everyone!*
> 
> The VE Megatron will definitely drive it.  You should order that and a balanced plug for full effect.  I can give you the tuning formula for perfecting the pinna gain, with maximum bass depth and extended treble.    You can adjust from there, but I’ve definitely hit an incredible great starting point.  Well, okay… it’s literally my favorite audio I’ve heard.  You can have it for around $100.  The elbow plugs are much easier to solder FWIW.


I looked at even more options and seems like the Megatron is the best choice for me. I will order it. Your personal 600 Ohm tuning formula for $100? Interesting proposition. Will I have to solder onto the Megatron?


Ronion said:


> The cable that comes with it is too short for comfort, so ask them about their longer USB cables. I've tried 8 other USB cables with the Megatron and none of them worked. All the VE cables work on all my computers and tablets.


Thank you, I’ll ask them for their longer cables. 


Ronion said:


> Brass has bite, strings have rosin, singers have saliva in their throats, etc... I really don't know exactly why it sounds like it does, but all my amps that measure really clean really don't have that sound and it's different from a laid back tube amp....


This was the sentence that convinced me to get it.


----------



## Ronion

Tromick said:


> I bought FAAEAL Snow-Lotus 1.0 and NiceHCK EB2S. I hope there is no difference for FAAEAL since I actually wanted Snow-Lotus 1.0+ version. Let's see... I will reply this in the future!
> 
> -Why I don't want to pay too much for earbuds?
> +First of all, I am Turkish. We were buying earbuds in bazaar in 90s, early 2000s. This was cheap solution for the music lovers who listens music on cassette players/portable radios. I know how much capacity they can get in the normal situation so I don't want to pay too much because it is called Hi-Fi or whatever. I saw too many example or comments which cheap earbuds compared to expensive/brand ones.


Let us know how the Snow Lotus works out vs. the TC300.


----------



## Ronion (Jan 4, 2023)

Gifting said:


> I looked at even more options and seems like the Megatron is the best choice for me. I will order it. Your personal 600 Ohm tuning formula for $100? Interesting proposition. Will I have to solder onto the Megatron?
> 
> Thank you, I’ll ask them for their longer cables.
> 
> This was the sentence that convinced me to get it.


Definitely don’t solder it to the  Megatron.  I was just saying that you can buy the parts for around $50 and you can build it to how I have mine tuned and then adjust from there if you don’t like it.  Since the Megatron is around $50, adding the 2 up should give you a great sound for around $100.  It’ll end up being a bit more I’m sure due to shipping costs and cable preferences.  There are also several presoldered 600Ohm buds available on AE that probably don’t sound too bad and might be able to be opened easily and tuned.  You can certainly build a few great buds for $20(ish) that I could give you tunings for as well if you are interested.  Then There’s the Yinman…. Lots of options.


----------



## syazwaned

samandhi said:


> No, not at all.. (my ears ARE getting old haha).
> 
> There can be a pretty fine line between dark and warm where our ears are concerned sometimes. If you hear them as having blunted treble, but are bass heavy, especially in the sub region (e.g. Sony house tuning) then they would definitely be dark. The only real difference here is that warm is (also) considered bass heavy, whether a little or a lot, except in most cases it is the upper bass that adds that warmth to the mids or overall tone, all while still having whatever treble they tuned into it. They can STILL have blunted treble also, but to my ears they aren't on this set. Granted the treble on these is NOT analytical boosted, they still remain focused and clear... But keep in mind, that is MY take on them, and someone like @JAnonymous5150 found them to be too blunted in the treble region for his liking. I found that if they had more prominent treble it would negatively impact the bass to a point that they might sound too much like a V (which they decidedly are not to my ears).
> 
> ...


Awesome, thanks 👍 😍


----------



## drewbadour (Jan 4, 2023)

Hi friends!

Happy New Year!

Regarding the Yinman - thanks to the unfortunate sacrifice of a community member whose Yinman was accidentally destroyed, we now have almost definitive proof (with pictures) that the driver contained is indeed the Qigom 600Bery driver! RIP Yinman but also... for science!



Ronion said:


> Definitely don’t solder it to the Megatron. I was just saying that you can buy the parts for around $50 and you can build it to how I have mine tuned and then adjust from there if you don’t like it. Since the Megatron is around $50, adding the 2 up should give you a great sound for around $100. It’ll end up being a bit more I’m sure due to shipping costs and cable preferences. There are also several presoldered 600Ohm buds available on AE that probably don’t sound too bad and might be able to be opened easily and tuned. You can certainly build a few great buds for $20(ish) that I could give you tunings for as well if you are interested. Then There’s the Yinman…. Lots of options.



I have a 600bery driver on the way and would love to try out your build if you'd be willing to share!


----------



## mochill

Faaeal lilium 😁


----------



## mochill

Fiio ff5 coming soon to


----------



## Gifting (Jan 4, 2023)

Ronion said:


> Definitely don’t solder it to the  Megatron.  I was just saying that you can buy the parts for around $50 and you can build it to how I have mine tuned and then adjust from there if you don’t like it.  Since the Megatron is around $50, adding the 2 up should give you a great sound for around $100.  It’ll end up being a bit more I’m sure due to shipping costs and cable preferences.  There are also several presoldered 600Ohm buds available on AE that probably don’t sound too bad and might be able to be opened easily and tuned.  You can certainly build a few great buds for $20(ish) that I could give you tunings for as well if you are interested.  Then There’s the Yinman…. Lots of options.


Ah okay, I misunderstood. Haha

I added different horseshoe densities, white tuning papers, and foams in my cart. The Megatron, the Be drivers, and some Bio drivers. Hopefully I get them soon.

Of course, I’d be interested in trying out your tunings @Ronion . I’ll message you later once I receive my drivers. Thank you very much. I’ll be posting my graphs for any other future builds/mods here or in DIY earbuds. Let me know if you want the tunings for those future builds, even though I’m still a noob at this haha.

Edit: My 64 Ohm Ti composite drivers arrived today. Can’t wait to solder these  tomorrow and try them out!


----------



## Gifting (Jan 4, 2023)

mochill said:


> Faaeal lilium 😁


That earbud caught my eye. The most showery head earbud I’ve ever seen. Interested in hearing your impressions with them afterwards, if you want of course.


----------



## samandhi

Gifting said:


> That earbud caught my eye. The most showery head earbud I’ve ever seen. Interested in hearing your impressions with them afterwards, if you want of course.


Ok, I gotta' admit, these have the Chaconne beat for "shower head" looking earbuds... LOL


----------



## mochill

Gifting said:


> That earbud caught my eye. The most showery head earbud I’ve ever seen. Interested in hearing your impressions with them afterwards, if you want of course.


Give me some time with them , then I'll give impressions. For now I can say they are built like a tank. And is very heavy


----------



## Ronion

Gifting said:


> Ah okay, I misunderstood. Haha
> 
> I added different horseshoe densities, white tuning papers, and foams in my cart. The Megatron, the Be drivers, and some Bio drivers. Hopefully I get them soon.
> 
> ...


Those are one of the bud bass cannon drivers.  I've never built a set myself, but I've been contemplating for a while.  The Be and Bio drivers are my personal favorites (along with the Carbons).  Show us your buds when you're done!  This will be cool.


----------



## Ronion

mochill said:


> Faaeal lilium 😁


And no impressions!  C'mon man!  Let us know when you think of them early on and post again in a week or two....   This is an exciting set.


----------



## Surf Monkey

Ronion said:


> And no impressions!  C'mon man!  Let us know when you think of them early on and post again in a week or two....   This is an exciting set.



I’m interested in those too if only for the cool industrial design.


----------



## samandhi

Ronion said:


> And no impressions!  C'mon man!  Let us know when you think of them early on and post again in a week or two....   This is an exciting set.


Looking at the diagrams on AE, they look almost impossible to keep in your ears, and as always I don't buy the FR curve for these. Having said that, did you see the numbers? These must have a SUPER strength magnet in them to be 120dB efficiency rating.


----------



## samandhi (Jan 5, 2023)

It looks like there are quite a few interesting designs coming out. These might have already been out, but I missed them?! These might be for those that were interested in having a combination of earbuds and IEMs (from a while back on this thread). Also one thing I noticed on these is that they seem to have a really nice cable, and with Rhodium connectors. Hmmmm.

Though one thing I am noticing on some of these new earbuds is that their pricing is jumping up (since FiiO jumped pretty heavilly into the game). It seems as though they are all wanting to jump in this trend of earbuds being popular again. I guess they just didn't look on here to find out that while they are still considered niche, they have always been poplular. LOL

QIGOM 2022 flagship:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804793902628.html?gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&_t=gps-idcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.40050.281175.0,pvid:9350bef4-156d-4449-9e64-63801b09c9de,tpp_buckets:668#2846#8110#1995&isseo=y&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000031225640541","sceneId":"30050"}

Another QIGOM bud that I haven't seen to this point:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804191747072.html?gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&_t=gps-idcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.40050.281175.0,pvid:ce017ac4-d6dc-4afc-90a0-4268725dc07e,tpp_buckets:668#2846#8110#1995&isseo=y&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000028968064675","sceneId":"30050"}

And here is a metal budget set Final Metal. I don't see any porting on these though, so who knows what they might sound like:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804787709257.html?gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&_t=gps-idcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.14452.226710.0,pvid:3182dd01-ce14-4da2-b16d-24231964ed1c,tpp_buckets:668#2846#8110#1995&isseo=y&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000031206635955","sceneId":"30050"}&ad_pvid=202301050114239666105677365241834119_2


----------



## samandhi

Here is a pretty neat looking kit from QIGOM that has aluminum shells and matched MMCX connectors (if you are interested in a pretty easy looking DIY assemble):

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256...12922"}&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa&_randl_shipto=US


----------



## citral23 (Jan 5, 2023)

Ronion said:


> Let us know how the Snow Lotus works out vs. the TC300.



Wouldn't bother with the snow lotus, like the shiro-yuki they sound literally dead with absolutely 0 bass on top of being dark sounding

The Nicehck B40 are the best I've ever got for 10€ and a balanced sound (as in not über neutral like the moondrop nameless, but not v-shaped super bass-boosted like ry4s either, just good at everything sounding "normal' with nothing wrong or special standing out)


----------



## houaiss (Jan 6, 2023)

sfrsfr said:


> If anyone is looking for a cheap upgrade earbud cable, I can highly recommend the 8-core cables from RY Earphone Store on AE. From RY-C1 to RY-C9 the cables are the same, only their colors are different. I already have three of them.
> They look great, feel soft, are light-weight, have working chin slider and transmit electrical signals perfectly fine.
> I think they are an amazing value for the low price!
> A link for one of them: www.aliexpress.com/item/4000789472494.html


Thank you, sfrsfr! I was looking to buy one of those and I'm glad I found your feedback


----------



## houaiss

Hello everyone! I'm new to this earbud world and audio equipment in general but I really like to go through this thread.

I was thinking of buying the ry4s mmcx plus and was wondering how they compare with the Yuin pk2. I assume the pk2 would be better because they are more expensive (but I know that's not always the case). However I saw that apparently Yuin drivers were modified in recent times:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-17154727
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-17154781

Personally I loved my Yuin pk2 (bought in 2019) until the wire broke. Its the best earbud I have until now. After the wire broke I decided to buy a new earbud but now my budget is lower so I decided to buy a budget earbud. I considered the ry4s mmcx because of the reviews and I liked that the cable is detachable.

I saw that ry4s has a V-shaped sound. I don't know how to describe the Yuin pk2 sound but I felt that it had a lot of bass (which I liked it). I guess I could say that the Yuin pk2 has a V-shaped sound too? My experience with earbuds is narrow so idk...

I understand that is not the ideal to compare two earbuds from different price ranges (yuin pk2 and ry4s), but If anyone could I would be thankful! Thank you!


----------



## Ronion

samandhi said:


> Looking at the diagrams on AE, they look almost impossible to keep in your ears, and as always I don't buy the FR curve for these. Having said that, did you see the numbers? These must have a SUPER strength magnet in them to be 120dB efficiency rating.


When I tried to Google them, I spelled Faeaael wrong as I always do, and my search results were related to severe constipation…. We’ll hope for @mochill that has nothing to do with the buds.


----------



## fooltoque

samandhi said:


> And here is a metal budget set Final Metal. I don't see any porting on these though, so who knows what they might sound like:
> https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804787709257.html?gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&_t=gps-idcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.14452.226710.0,pvid:3182dd01-ce14-4da2-b16d-24231964ed1c,tpp_buckets:668#2846#8110#1995&isseo=y&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000031206635955","sceneId":"30050"}&ad_pvid=202301050114239666105677365241834119_2


I'd be interested in a Final branded bud, but I don't see that on their website even though I see the Final logo on it. Fake?


----------



## samandhi

fooltoque said:


> I'd be interested in a Final branded bud, but I don't see that on their website even though I see the Final logo on it. Fake?


That is a good question. One that I have no idea the answer to. But anything is possible I suppose. You could always message Final and ask, I suppose.


----------



## fooltoque

samandhi said:


> That is a good question. One that I have no idea the answer to. But anything is possible I suppose. You could always message Final and ask, I suppose.


Good idea. I sent them a message


----------



## Gifting (Jan 7, 2023)

Soldered the 64 Ohm Ti composites today. Stock sound with pre-applied horseshoe . Not a bad driver! For a supposed V-shape driver, mids aren’t as recessed as I thought it’d be. The bass is really nice. Of all my prebuilt buds, it reminds me a bit of the Yincrow X6 (which I opened the bass port of). Compared to it, it has more bass, less apparent soundstage, and upper mids/treble not as pronounced. It sounds really good with electronic songs (e.g Crystal Castles - Intimate & Crimewave). If I were to tune it, I’d keep the bass where it is, increase soundstage (if possible) and upper mids/treble. I’ll edit and post a graph comparing the two later. Hopefully my ears aren’t deceiving me.





Edit: Here's the graph comparing both, without foams.






samandhi said:


> QIGOM 2022 flagship:
> https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804793902628.html?gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&_t=gps-idcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.40050.281175.0,pvid:9350bef4-156d-4449-9e64-63801b09c9de,tpp_buckets:668#2846#8110#1995&isseo=y&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000031225640541","sceneId":"30050"}


Those pictures caught my eye, those iem-ish adapters look interesting. I’ve been trying to look for the adapters separately but they always come bundled with buds.


----------



## wolfen68

houaiss said:


> Hello everyone! I'm new to this earbud world and audio equipment in general but I really like to go through this thread.
> 
> I was thinking of buying the ry4s mmcx plus and was wondering how they compare with the Yuin pk2. I assume the pk2 would be better because they are more expensive (but I know that's not always the case). However I saw that apparently Yuin drivers were modified in recent times:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-17154727
> ...


I can't speak to the ry4s but I do find the FF3 to be somewhat similar to my old PK-2's, albeit much better IMO.


----------



## Astral Sun

Hello! New here and have been reading about a few of the models on the very first page of this thread. I'm in Europe and it seems like my options are limited to AliExpress, is this true or are there any European online stores I've missed? Thanks for any help!


----------



## ttorbic

This driver looks dope: https://www.instagram.com/p/CnGlHLBv2Vk/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Anyone tried high impedance CNT drivers before?


----------



## ttorbic

Astral Sun said:


> Hello! New here and have been reading about a few of the models on the very first page of this thread. I'm in Europe and it seems like my options are limited to AliExpress, is this true or are there any European online stores I've missed? Thanks for any help!


Are you looking for commercial or DIY earbuds? There are multiple options available in Europe for both categories


----------



## Astral Sun

ttorbic said:


> Are you looking for commercial or DIY earbuds? There are multiple options available in Europe for both categories


Ah, I see a rabbit hole unraveling... Both are interesting. If you could point me to either or, that'd be very helpful! Cheers


----------



## ttorbic

Astral Sun said:


> Ah, I see a rabbit hole unraveling... Both are interesting. If you could point me to either or, that'd be very helpful! Cheers


Oh, you're based in Portugal? Olá~ tudo bem?
If you want to try earbuds that are pretty good <20 USD, I think you have to use AliX.
If you want to get some higher end ones, you can use sellers like Linsoul, Hifigo, Penon Audio, Venture Electronics, to purchase earbuds like Fiio FF3/FF5, Astrotec, etc. 
If you want to get DIY earbuds (FYI, i'm biased as I think they offer fantastic price/performance ratio), then Rikubuds is based in EU, and TGXear will ship internationally. You can contact both via DM here or instagram.


----------



## Astral Sun

ttorbic said:


> Oh, you're based in Portugal? Olá~ tudo bem?
> If you want to try earbuds that are pretty good <20 USD, I think you have to use AliX.
> If you want to get some higher end ones, you can use sellers like Linsoul, Hifigo, Penon Audio, Venture Electronics, to purchase earbuds like Fiio FF3/FF5, Astrotec, etc.
> If you want to get DIY earbuds (FYI, i'm biased as I think they offer fantastic price/performance ratio), then Rikubuds is based in EU, and TGXear will ship internationally. You can contact both via DM here or instagram.


Tudo, obrigado! E contigo? Great stuff. Thanks a lot!! Do you mind if I send you a DM about some questions about Aliexpress? Cheers!


----------



## FranQL (Jan 7, 2023)

Today I have been listening to the VE Zen 3.0, I liked it a lot, wide, transparent sound and very rich in nuances, quite impressed with this, very good build quality and cables. it is less warm than zen 2, which made me happy.


----------



## digititus

FranQL said:


> Today I have been listening to the VE Zen 3.0, I liked it a lot, wide, transparent sound and very rich in nuances, quite impressed with this, very good build quality and cables. it is less warm than zen 2, which made me happy.


Lucky you! It's definitely on my list


----------



## syazwaned

FranQL said:


> Today I have been listening to the VE Zen 3.0, I liked it a lot, wide, transparent sound and very rich in nuances, quite impressed with this, very good build quality and cables. it is less warm than zen 2, which made me happy.


any comparison?


----------



## GREQ

Calling all earbud historians!

I need help (I know... weird right!??) finding the model number of this vintage Aiwa.

It walks and talks like an *HP-V33*... BUT it has a *stereo/mono* switch, which doesn't match anything on 'teh interwebz'... or any other Aiwa bud I've ever seen.

In the end, I bet it's something like HP-V33-M or something... denoting the mono switch, but any help would be very welcome.


----------



## Angelic

https://stereo2go.com/forums/thread...-aiwa-hp-v-and-others-of-the-golden-era.3388/   There are AIWA Sound GT HP-V20 described, which looks similar, just without label "Sound GT Aiwa"


----------



## GREQ

Angelic said:


> https://stereo2go.com/forums/thread...-aiwa-hp-v-and-others-of-the-golden-era.3388/   There are AIWA Sound GT HP-V20 described, which looks similar, just without label "Sound GT Aiwa"


Good to see some more of those mono switches.
I was starting to think it was a mod.


----------



## qua2k (Jan 7, 2023)

People with the Yinman 2.0 600ohm... i am noticing on ali that there is a black and a gray option. does anyone have more close ups of either? i am thinking about giving this one a purchase soon (or if a fellow member has a pair they are willing to sell?). even though i generally hate mmcx, the positive reviews are tempting me too much.


----------



## SolaVirtus

qua2k said:


> People with the Yinman 2.0 600ohm... i am noticing on ali that there is a black and a gray option. does anyone have more close ups of either? i am thinking about giving this one a purchase soon (or if a fellow member has a pair they are willing to sell?). even though i generally hate mmcx, the positive reviews are tempting me too much.


Mine has wired cables, not mmcx, and I'd call it black with light silver-looking cables. The ali link can be misleading, I think, as others have noted. What ali link is showing you those options?


----------



## qua2k (Jan 7, 2023)

SolaVirtus said:


> Mine has wired cables, not mmcx, and I'd call it black with light silver-looking cables. The ali link can be misleading, I think, as others have noted. What ali link is showing you those options?


This one here,

https://m.aliexpress.us/item/2251832631375111.html

Pictures look a lot like mmcx so if i am incorrect, my mistake! Is this the right link?


----------



## SolaVirtus

That's the same I used a couple months ago, I think, but the pictures haven't been updated. The 600 ohm 2.0 isn't mmcx as far as I know.


----------



## thesoundandthefury

My daily drivers - qian39, zen LL and yincrow x6 all met the same fate: the housing eventually comes apart while rustling about in my pocket then the internals get promptly torn apart. I know using a case is recommended but I feel like this issue could be avoided with improved construction quality.

Anyone else had this problem? 

I wouldnt mind paying extra for an epoxy-glued shell or something, especially if the earbud costs $50+ to begin with
(hint hint
*@RikudouGoku
@tgx78 
@irv003 
@ValSuki *


----------



## chinmie

thesoundandthefury said:


> My daily drivers - qian39, zen LL and yincrow x6 all met the same fate: the housing eventually comes apart while rustling about in my pocket then the internals get promptly torn apart. I know using a case is recommended but I feel like this issue could be avoided with improved construction quality.
> 
> Anyone else had this problem?
> 
> ...



I would dare putiing my wired earphones straight into my pocket or bags like that, no matter how good the construction...it would take only a small force/tug to ruin them, not to mention the tangle nightmare

If i couldn't use a case, i would at least use a soft pouch, just to reduce the risk


----------



## thesoundandthefury

chinmie said:


> I would dare putiing my wired earphones straight into my pocket or bags like that, no matter how good the construction...it would take only a small force/tug to ruin them, not to mention the tangle nightmare
> 
> If i couldn't use a case, i would at least use a soft pouch, just to reduce the risk


I just feel like we've been conditioned to have such low expectations for their construction quality. How many other EDC type products break apart in a trouser pocket?


----------



## Carpet

chinmie said:


> I would dare putiing my wired earphones straight into my pocket or bags like that, no matter how good the construction...it would take only a small force/tug to ruin them, not to mention the tangle nightmare
> 
> If i couldn't use a case, i would at least use a soft pouch, just to reduce the risk


Tangles!​


----------



## drewbadour

FranQL said:


> Today I have been listening to the VE Zen 3.0, I liked it a lot, wide, transparent sound and very rich in nuances, quite impressed with this, very good build quality and cables. it is less warm than zen 2, which made me happy.


Oh nice!! I'm still waiting for mine to ship. I bought it the day it was released but no tracking


----------



## samandhi

qua2k said:


> People with the Yinman 2.0 600ohm... i am noticing on ali that there is a black and a gray option. does anyone have more close ups of either? i am thinking about giving this one a purchase soon (or if a fellow member has a pair they are willing to sell?). even though i generally hate mmcx, the positive reviews are tempting me too much.


You can refer to this post about the Yinman 2.0 600 (including a closeup picture in the spoiler of what they look like now as opposed to the pictures).
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-17326821


----------



## qua2k

samandhi said:


> You can refer to this post about the Yinman 2.0 600 (including a closeup picture in the spoiler of what they look like now as opposed to the pictures).
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-17326821


Great thank you! I actually prefer the look of the updated version with the wood stem. Thank you for the tip on requesting termination, very helpful. I will likely place an order in the coming weeks.


----------



## samandhi

qua2k said:


> Great thank you! I actually prefer the look of the updated version with the wood stem. Thank you for the tip on requesting termination, very helpful. I will likely place an order in the coming weeks.


Yes, other than the cable not being changeable, I like the looks better on the new style also. Do let me/us know your thoughts when you get them and have had some time to listen to them?!



Spoiler: Teaser for you!


----------



## baskingshark

samandhi said:


> Yes, other than the cable not being changeable, I like the looks better on the new style also. Do let me/us know your thoughts when you get them and have had some time to listen to them?!



Bros do you guys know where a Yinman 600 with detachable MMCX can be bought? I am a bit hesitant to spend more than 50 bucks on something without a detachable cable, as I've had non-detachable gear die on me thrice in my audio journey. But more so, I would like to use some balanced aftermarket cables or BT adapters sometimes, so a detachable option is my go-to.


----------



## samandhi

baskingshark said:


> Bros do you guys know where a Yinman 600 with detachable MMCX can be bought? I am a bit hesitant to spend more than 50 bucks on something without a detachable cable, as I've had non-detachable gear die on me thrice in my audio journey. But more so, I would like to use some balanced aftermarket cables or BT adapters sometimes, so a detachable option is my go-to.


You could always chat with them on AE and ask them if they can make a set. AFAIK, and even though the picture shows otherwise, the only ones available are the long stem non removable cable version. Also, you might ask them if there are any 2020 or 2019 versions they might be able to sell you. To hear @WoodyLuvr talk, most of their buds sound similar (though not exact). They even made a lower impedance version from my understanding. 

Your only other option is to purchase the current set and have one of the expert DIYers mod it with an MMCX connector. I thought of doing that at one point (back when I thought I hated the cable), but I have (actually) grown fond of the cable, and I don't really have a need to change. I ordered mine in 2.5mm balanced that way it is easy to convert to 3.5mm or 4.4mm if needed. 

As for using a BT adapter such as the FiiO UTWS5, I am not sure it will be able to properly power these.. They are not only high impedance, but they are also very inefficient (at anywhere between 89-93dB, depending on if you read the site specs, or the owner saying what it is). I have tested on very low output powered devices, and while you will get some decent volume (amazingly), they will NOT sound very good (to my ears). 

Having said all of that, let us know if you manage to get a set?!


----------



## dsonance

samandhi said:


> You could always chat with them on AE and ask them if they can make a set. AFAIK, and even though the picture shows otherwise, the only ones available are the long stem non removable cable version. Also, you might ask them if there are any 2020 or 2019 versions they might be able to sell you. To hear @WoodyLuvr talk, most of their buds sound similar (though not exact). They even made a lower impedance version from my understanding.
> 
> Your only other option is to purchase the current set and have one of the expert DIYers mod it with an MMCX connector. I thought of doing that at one point (back when I thought I hated the cable), but I have (actually) grown fond of the cable, and I don't really have a need to change. I ordered mine in 2.5mm balanced that way it is easy to convert to 3.5mm or 4.4mm if needed.
> 
> ...


When I was getting mine, a few months ago, I asked the seller about the MMCX option. I was told in no uncertain terms that it was no longer available. Also, it took them a while to put together the pair I ordered: they had no ready to ship ones in stock at all, not to speak about 2019/2020 leftovers...

I ended up being perfectly happy with the stock cable as well. There's a bit of microphonics with the wooden stem, but I stopped noticing it with use.


----------



## silverszi

Yeah when they sent me mine they sent me one that was very sensitive and had a tonality that was overtly bright, not what was described, be wary of AVCCK.


dsonance said:


> When I was getting mine, a few months ago, I asked the seller about the MMCX option. I was told in no uncertain terms that it was no longer available. Also, it took them a while to put together the pair I ordered: they had no ready to ship ones in stock at all, not to speak about 2019/2020 leftovers...
> 
> I ended up being perfectly happy with the stock cable as well. There's a bit of microphonics with the wooden stem, but I stopped noticing it with use.


----------



## samandhi

silverszi said:


> Yeah when they sent me mine they sent me one that was very sensitive and had a tonality that was overtly bright, not what was described, be wary of AVCCK.


Per @WoodyLuvr's advice, I didn't even bother using the buttons on the page to order them. I contacted the seller and asked to see a picture of what they were and asked if they were the "New Yinman 2.0 600" with all the specs advertised on the page (other than MMCX cable of course), and I also told him I wanted 2.5 balanced connector at that time. After all of this, I simply ordered through him. He repeated exactly what I wanted, and we were done. Do yourself a favor and chat with them about exactly what you are wanting, and/or exactly what you will be getting. Who knows when they change things up because I got the "puck" style storage case but the naked wood box, where @WoodyLuvr got a really nice box, but no case at all. 

If you are willing to deal with their site being a mess, it is worth it (so long as you know exactly what you are getting for your money).


----------



## silverszi

samandhi said:


> Per @WoodyLuvr's advice, I didn't even bother using the buttons on the page to order them. I contacted the seller and asked to see a picture of what they were and asked if they were the "New Yinman 2.0 600" with all the specs advertised on the page (other than MMCX cable of course), and I also told him I wanted 2.5 balanced connector at that time. After all of this, I simply ordered through him. He repeated exactly what I wanted, and we were done. Do yourself a favor and chat with them about exactly what you are wanting, and/or exactly what you will be getting. Who knows when they change things up because I got the "puck" style storage case but the naked wood box, where @WoodyLuvr got a really nice box, but no case at all.
> 
> If you are willing to deal with their site being a mess, it is worth it (so long as you know exactly what you are getting for your money).


tbh we did have a discussion and it seems like they genuinely accidentally sent me a 32 ohm unit.


----------



## fooltoque

silverszi said:


> tbh we did have a discussion and it seems like they genuinely accidentally sent me a 32 ohm unit.


Oh I think I remember this discussion. Did you end up getting the 600ohm one in the end?


----------



## silverszi

fooltoque said:


> Oh I think I remember this discussion. Did you end up getting the 600ohm one in the end?


Nope because aliexpress doesn't do returns and resends, it's stuck in chinese customs but i got my refund.
And I don't want to suffer through that again.

Oh especially given we know it's the beryllium 600 ohm driver


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Monday at 10:13 AM)

GREQ said:


> Calling all earbud historians!
> 
> I need help (I know... weird right!??) finding the model number of this vintage Aiwa.
> 
> ...


Probably a circa 1990 HP-V33.  Some Aiwa models when bundled with certain devices were rewired with mono/stereos switches and/or volume controllers.


----------



## silverszi

WoodyLuvr said:


> Probably a circa 1990 HP-V33.  Some Aiwa models when bundled with certain devices were rewired with mono/stereos switches and/or volume controllers.


the two vents remind me of a PK


----------



## GREQ

WoodyLuvr said:


> Probably a circa 1990 HP-V33.  Some Aiwa models when bundled with certain devices were rewired with mono/stereos switches and/or volume controllers.


If vintage buds is what it takes to get you back in the thread, I'm glad it worked


----------



## samandhi

GREQ said:


> If vintage buds is what it takes to get you back in the thread, I'm glad it worked


IKR? LOL


----------



## mochill

Fiio ff5 😁


----------



## silverszi

silverszi said:


> Nope because aliexpress doesn't do returns and resends, it's stuck in chinese customs but i got my refund.
> And I don't want to suffer through that again.
> 
> Oh especially given we know it's the beryllium 600 ohm driver


disregard what i said i cannot find the pic of the S600 ohm diaphragm and voice coil


----------



## qua2k

silverszi said:


> it's stuck in chinese customs


This I am afraid of. After hearing in early December than the Chinese postal service quite literally went postal, worries about consumer postal exports considering.


----------



## Ronion

qua2k said:


> This I am afraid of. After hearing in early December than the Chinese postal service quite literally went postal, worries about consumer postal exports considering.


I ordered some exotic drivers that I’m excited to tune, so I’m hoping all goes well.


----------



## silverszi

qua2k said:


> This I am afraid of. After hearing in early December than the Chinese postal service quite literally went postal, worries about consumer postal exports considering.


oh all my exports from China are fine
just not imports to

although it passed customs after over a month


----------



## samandhi

mochill said:


> Fiio ff5 😁


Congrats on your new shiny!


----------



## mochill

samandhi said:


> Congrats on your new shiny!


Thanks bro


----------



## samandhi

mochill said:


> Thanks bro


You planning on doing a full review on these?


----------



## mochill

samandhi said:


> You planning on doing a full review on these?


Yes I am


----------



## samandhi

mochill said:


> Yes I am


Looking forward to it.


----------



## o0genesis0o

mochill said:


> Fiio ff5 😁


Congrats on your shiny! Good stuff right there.


----------



## silverszi

do note chinese new year is coming up so expect stuff from about the 15th to 27th to be delayed from china.


----------



## fooltoque

samandhi said:


> And here is a metal budget set Final Metal. I don't see any porting on these though, so who knows what they might sound like:
> https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804787709257.html?gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&_t=gps-idcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.14452.226710.0,pvid:3182dd01-ce14-4da2-b16d-24231964ed1c,tpp_buckets:668#2846#8110#1995&isseo=y&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000031206635955","sceneId":"30050"}&ad_pvid=202301050114239666105677365241834119_2


I got a reply from Final about that Final Metal bud. 



> Hi,
> 
> Thank you very much for your inquiry.
> 
> ...


----------



## samandhi

fooltoque said:


> I got a reply from Final about that Final Metal bud.


All I can say is... WOW! Glad you decided to write to them.


----------



## Surf Monkey (Tuesday at 9:44 PM)

So I got the TRN EMX today. Reports on this set are actually few and far between here. It looks like it got some negative feedback based on the ergonomics. They’re over ear, not cable down, so the shells want to sit at a specific angle. Luckily the angle they want to be at is perfect for my ears. I’m getting a pretty decent seal and the stock foams are relatively comfortable. The sound is not bad. It isn’t as bass focused as the Yincrow X6 (my only other buds right now) but it is certainly not lacking in bass. The signature is acceptable. Maybe a bit too upper-mid dialed for me, but I did JUST take them out of the box. More soon…


----------



## Ronion

And my new drivers that I just ordered have already arrived in America.


----------



## Carpet

qua2k said:


> This I am afraid of. After hearing in early December than the Chinese postal service quite literally went postal, worries about consumer postal exports considering.


Did anyone else just log in to check tracking on  orders? 

Fortunately all the things I didn't order (due to enhanced fiscal responsibility) are now in the country. Half would even have cleared customs. Which of course they haven't since I never ordered them!


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

RIOBuds was realised on Github 

https://github.com/RomanLikhachev/RIOBuds

New versions will be soon

#new_sound_of_earbuds


----------



## Mr.HiAudio (Wednesday at 5:35 AM)

Some pics


Spoiler



Version X with 3 in 1 tube(long 3x tube)





MMCX:


----------



## samandhi

Mr.HiAudio said:


> Some pics
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Pardon the ignorance on these, but are those @ValSuki designed shells? Those look like the "cat paws" shells that he has been working on.  They look very nice.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

samandhi said:


> Pardon the ignorance on these, but are those @ValSuki designed shells? Those look like the "cat paws" shells that he has been working on.  They look very nice.


I did not see his work(do you have a link?  ), I did everything from the beginning, I can even show prototypes


----------



## samandhi

Mr.HiAudio said:


> I did not see his work(do you have a link?  ), I did everything from the beginning, I can even show prototypes


I did not mean to come across as accusatory (if it seems that way) to you OR @ValSuki. I was just noticing that they look alike and was wondering if there was a connection there. 

I have no links to offer, though I THINK that there were some pictures here on this thread, and over on the Discord server it has been discussed also.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

samandhi said:


> I did not mean to come across as accusatory (if it seems that way) to you OR @ValSuki. I was just noticing that they look alike and was wondering if there was a connection there.
> 
> I have no links to offer, though I THINK that there were some pictures here on this thread, and over on the Discord server it has been discussed also.


Interesting 🤔


----------



## mt877 (Wednesday at 9:01 AM)

samandhi said:


> I did not mean to come across as accusatory (if it seems that way) to you OR @ValSuki. I was just noticing that they look alike and was wondering if there was a connection there.
> 
> I have no links to offer, though I THINK that there were some pictures here on this thread, and over on the Discord server it has been discussed also.
> 
> ...


Could be referring to this post by @ValSuki? It's not the same design, but is 3D printed. BTW, did you notice ValSuki and Mr.HiAudio both have a cat as their thumbnail. Meow!

Edit: I have a lot of reading to catch up on this thread.


----------



## houaiss (Thursday at 7:35 AM)

qua2k said:


> even though i generally hate mmcx


Hello! Could you tell why you generally hate mmcx? I never used mmcx but a few days ago I ordered an RY4S mmcx and now I'm waiting to deliver. Your feedback would be much appreciated


----------



## Tromick (Thursday at 5:31 PM)

Tromick said:


> I bought FAAEAL Snow-Lotus 1.0 and NiceHCK EB2S. I hope there is no difference for FAAEAL since I actually wanted Snow-Lotus 1.0+ version. Let's see... I will reply this in the future!
> 
> -Why I don't want to pay too much for earbuds?
> +First of all, I am Turkish. We were buying earbuds in bazaar in 90s, early 2000s. This was cheap solution for the music lovers who listens music on cassette players/portable radios. I know how much capacity they can get in the normal situation so I don't want to pay too much because it is called Hi-Fi or whatever. I saw too many example or comments which cheap earbuds compared to expensive/brand ones.



NiceHCK EB2S has arrived. Too *unhappy.*

First of all, the things I will say is completely personal. The thing I don't like can be your favorite, who knows?! But sound-wise all the things are true. This is done in first day without burn-in so take it with grain a salt.

*Bass: *Sub-bass is definately there and it does not get blend with kicks or mid-bass. Mid bass is not emphasized, sounds flat, even can be recessed. So all the body of the sound feels like coming from sub-bass somehow. Upper-bass is definately recessed.

*Mid: *Recessed as ***! There is no mid at all... No...

*Treble: *Treble is definately there. All the human voices coming from treble-side and upper-mid. You know that some producers like to brigthen female singers to make it more dynamic, airy, sexy and girl-ish... Now think about it... Even Rick Astley's voice sound like Britney Spears right now. This is terrible... Upper side of treble is fully opened. It feels like somebody turned up 16kHz fully up. Due to emphasized upper treble, you hear reverbs, echos so clear and it kills the whole point of being "echo" thing. You hear them as the same level of vocals. All the effects of, can be vocal, or instrumental, synthesizer, can be heard transparently. Hi-hats, cymbals sound metallic, very sparkly, very much unnatural and disturbing.

*Soundstage:* If you think about recessed mid's you can imagine that there is no air in any recordings, there is no spacious-ness or room/hall like feelings in the recordings. (Imagine jazz or classique music, even any 80's songs) Too much clear sound resulted as narrow and blended soup soundstage. I know this sounds opposite of clarity. How can I say... Yes, I hear effects so clearly from right or left, yes but too much trebles at higher volumes starts to cause soup like sound. If you are going to listen at very low levels, like critical listening, then you will very like the soundstage and will find it *wide*.

*Depth:* There is no depth at all. Everything is so close to your face that you can't feel the layers. There is no mid, there is no depth except emphasized echos. This means there is no darkness.

*Instrument seperation: *Thanks to the upper of treble and recessed mids, every instrument is heard clearly but this is not mean that you can choose it. Trebles are causing something; In industries, machines would beep in very high pitch, it is because our ears responds more to the higher sounds. *This is very tiring and you start to cannot choose anything after 5 minutes of listening. *You start to listen hi-hats and cymbals and air whoosing effects as music.

First 30 seconds, I tried with one layer of cushions, then after hearing it's metallic cheap, 2010's chinese in-ear headphone sound-like treble's, I started to wear it with double cushions. It helped a little bit about mids and trebles but it was too small help about overall sound.
All the female vocals sound like mixmastered Britney Spears, Ariana Grande studio vocals. Autotuned female vocals including Britney Spears sounded like alien. There is no timbre of the vocal, just shhhhhhh sounds I am hearing... All the 80's songs sound metallic. All the male vocals sound like Britney Spears.

Also I have tried it with my laptops from around 2010's at the moment. They lack of treble from headphone output but they got amazing stereo crosstalk levels. There is no leaking and there is amazing depth etc. Even with them, they still sound bright but much much better than new technologies like smartphones and new laptops. Still, sound very fake.

Somebody told me, kind of reminds HD650 and boy, I own HD6XX and there is no any similarity. This just sounds like 2010-ish cheap Chinese, in-ears without mid-bass thump. My ears are ringing now. I cannot believe *how people suggested this to me.*

I only could recommend this to who like to analyze echos, effects, vocal effects, female vocal layering (background double, triple etc.) *at low volume levels. *It has a clarity that makes very very noticable of older recordings which got low repeating sounds in silent parts. Very good detailing and seperation but *only at low volume levels.* I should remind it again, mids are recessed!

TC200 and TC300 was my first shot into earbuds from AliExpress and it was great shot thanks to ounwx's correct ears. Here, you can see his comment that changed my life:

https://www.head-fi.org/goto/post?id=15096032

Now, I am waiting for that FAAEAL Snow-Lotus 1.0 and just hoping that there is no difference with Snow-Lotus 1.0+ version. If I don't like it that too, I will try to buy that TC200 since TC300, my love is already discountinued.


----------



## syazwaned

Tromick said:


> NiceHCK EB2S has arrived. Too *unhappy.*
> First of all, the things I will say is completely personal. The thing I don't like can be your favorite, who knows?! But sound-wise all the things are true.
> 
> *Bass: *Sub-bass is definately there and it does not get blend with kicks or mid-bass. Mid bass is not emphasized, sounds flat, even can be recessed. So all the body of the sound feels like coming from sub-bass somehow. Upper-bass is definately recessed.
> ...


eb2s is warm smooth tuning, yours eb2s have qc issue.


----------



## Tromick

syazwaned said:


> eb2s is warm smooth tuning, yours eb2s have qc issue.



Both sides are the same, how could be?!


----------



## qua2k (Wednesday at 9:27 PM)

houaiss said:


> Hello! Could you tell why you generally hate mmcx? I never used mmxc but a few days ago I ordered an RY4S mmcx and now I'm waiting to deliver. Your feedback would be much appreciated


It comes down to the connection itself. I do hear promising things about Sennheisers modified mmcx that they now use. For IEM, 2-pin is more solid of a connection than mmcx, for me. My first IEM was with mmcx and it was great for a few years but one side became loose and eventually lost sound altogether except if I forced the connection to one side manually. This might be an isolated event but it turned me off of the type right then and there.

I would generally say if you are spending more than $500 on an IEM and plan on keeping it long term (>1 yr), 2-pin or bust imo.


----------



## Surf Monkey

Update: so far so good with the TRN EMX. The fit is great in my ears. Like “I don’t even feel them” great. Stock foams are still working fine. The cable has TRN’s standard modular connections. This example is connecting solidly with the three plug ends it comes with. The cable itself is fine. It’s a little less substantial than I typically prefer but it handles well, isn’t tangly and seems to sound okay.

The set itself is nice. It has a definite W shaped sound with the upper mids being emphasized. Works great for male vocals. I haven’t found it to be “shouty” at all. The treble is smooth and moderately detailed and the bass is well placed and plenty ample. It could use some more sub-bass, but it isn’t non-existent. 

The overall experience is airy without being thin. There’s note weight and decent separation. The mid-forward presentation does bring the sound stage in close for some tracks. On others it sounds nice and expansive with that “outside your head” feeling happening on the right tracks. 

So at least this far into listening to them (6-10 hours or so) I think they’re good. Not world beaters but good, especially if the over-ear design fits your specific ears.


----------



## samandhi

Tromick said:


> NiceHCK EB2S has arrived. Too *unhappy.*
> First of all, the things I will say is completely personal. The thing I don't like can be your favorite, who knows?! But sound-wise all the things are true.
> 
> *Bass: *Sub-bass is definately there and it does not get blend with kicks or mid-bass. Mid bass is not emphasized, sounds flat, even can be recessed. So all the body of the sound feels like coming from sub-bass somehow. Upper-bass is definately recessed.
> ...





syazwaned said:


> eb2s is warm smooth tuning, yours eb2s have qc issue.


They could be considered smooth if you aren't sensitive to pina gain boost (like I am). I would actually not call them warm, and I would say that they are actually fairly aggressive overall. I also don't think they sound anything like what @Tromick is describing. It IS possible that they are defective (maybe the cable???). Or it also is possible that NiceHCK has changed something about them, and the newer tuning is different. Or maybe you are having a fitment issue? Have you tried them in multiple sources?

To me the closest comparison (with the set I have) is the Smabat M2s Pro (which is to say that they are a bit less refined, but sound good overall). Sorry that they sound bad to your ears. I also think that I might have been (at least) one person to have recommended them to you. This being based on my experience with them and reviews you can find on Head-Fi also (which are much more favorable and don't really match what you are hearing for some reason).

While I have not heard them, I have not read too many favorable reviews on the Snow Lotus (though YMMV once again). Maybe if you are looking for budget buds, you might give the Yincrow X6 a try?! I also have not heard those, but from everything I have read, they punch in at much higher than their price point.


----------



## syazwaned

I have smabat m2s pro, and I found eb2s is more relax and warmer. My eb2s is more a like to Zen 2.0 than smabat m2s pro.

hurm...Maybe I pair eb2s with very warm source.


----------



## baskingshark (Wednesday at 8:15 PM)

Tromick said:


> NiceHCK EB2S has arrived. Too *unhappy.*
> First of all, the things I will say is completely personal. The thing I don't like can be your favorite, who knows?! But sound-wise all the things are true.
> 
> *Bass: *Sub-bass is definately there and it does not get blend with kicks or mid-bass. Mid bass is not emphasized, sounds flat, even can be recessed. So all the body of the sound feels like coming from sub-bass somehow. Upper-bass is definately recessed.
> ...



The EB2S doesn't sound like that, as a few other consumers can attest to above. It sounds thick and analoguish. I find them to lie on the warmer side of the spectrum.

Could it be a fitting issue? If the fit is bad, the mid-bass is deemphasized and the treble can be more prominent.
Other possibility is QC issue or NiceHCK went to do a retune/different drivers.

Are u using a laptop DAC with it? Have you tried other sources?


----------



## baskingshark

samandhi said:


> While I have not heard them, I have not read too many favorable reviews on the Snow Lotus (though YMMV once again). Maybe if you are looking for budget buds, you might give the Yincrow X6 a try?! I also have not heard those, but from everything I have read, they punch in at much higher than their price point.



Snow Lotus isn't very good IMO. Am putting it up for sale LOL.


----------



## Gifting (Thursday at 1:34 AM)

I visited my grandma and uncle this past weekend. I brought my earbud collection (or most of it) for my uncle to demo. He mentioned he was interested in listening to earbuds. The earbuds I brought were:


Yincrow X6 (bass port open)
Black Lotus S300
KBell LBBS
Qian 39
Titanium DIY mmcx (YinXue Audio Store)
LCP DIY mmcx (YinXue Audio Store)
RY4S Plus mmcx (white version)
32Ohm BG (stock)
KBear Stellar (modded)
This earbud from Chitty’s store
150Ohm BG, riveted (tuning still in progress)
64Ohm Ti Composite (stock)
32Ohm N52 Red Rim (stock)
64Ohm WG (stock)
NiceHCK diy mx500
Fiio FF3
His favorites were the FF3’s. His second favorite was the 32Ohm BG’s. He said the FF3 had the most clarity, while being the most balanced (bass, mids, and highs sounded correct to his ears). He also said the same of the 32 BG’s, but the FF3 beat it.

Driving source was iPhone 11 with dongle (not really a fair test for higher impedance buds). He was listening to them pretty loud, deafening to me. He used Brian Culbertson and Shakatak as test tracks. He mainly listens to music via speakers.


----------



## samandhi

syazwaned said:


> I have smabat m2s pro, and I found eb2s is more relax and warmer. My eb2s is more a like to Zen 2.0 than smabat m2s pro.
> 
> hurm...Maybe I pair eb2s with very warm source.





baskingshark said:


> The EB2S doesn't sound like that, as a few other consumers can attest to above. It sounds thick and analoguish. I find them to lie on the warmer side of the spectrum.
> 
> Could it be a fitting issue? If the fit is bad, the mid-bass is deemphasized and the treble can be more prominent.
> Other possibility is QC issue or NiceHCK went to do a retune/different drivers.
> ...


Hmmmm. Maybe I also have a different set than others, if you both are hearing them as warm???? When did you two get your set? I got mine as a mystery grab bag off of AE from the NiceHCK store before they were actually released. Or maybe My memory is faulty. I will need to listen to these again to make sure. 

Edit: I feel the need to apologize to you @syazwaned for contradicting you. I just put them back into my ears and you are right. They do indeed present as warmer. I haven't listened to them for a long time, and when I did, to me they did indeed sound a lot like the M2s Pro. Matter of fact, I remember @RikudouGoku debating with me at that time that he didn't feel they sounded like the M2s Pro either. Has my hearing changed that much??? Just disregard my old arse ears.... It might have come down to the boosted pina gain (which hurt my ears with any volume and sort of drown out all the other properties???), but listening to them now, I don't find them as bad as they were in that area even. 

Now that I have them back in my ears, I STILL stand by my (original) recommendation. They sound very good for budget buds. Indeed, much better than I remember (and I have always liked them anyhow). They obviously don't get much playtime with having the likes of the Yinman 2.0 600, FiiO FF3, FF5, etc...


----------



## syazwaned

samandhi said:


> Hmmmm. Maybe I also have a different set than others, if you both are hearing them as warm???? When did you two get your set? I got mine as a mystery grab bag off of AE from the NiceHCK store before they were actually released. Or maybe My memory is faulty. I will need to listen to these again to make sure.
> 
> Edit: I feel the need to apologize to you @syazwaned for contradicting you. I just put them back into my ears and you are right. They do indeed present as warmer. I haven't listened to them for a long time, and when I did, to me they did indeed sound a lot like the M2s Pro. Matter of fact, I remember @RikudouGoku debating with me at that time that he didn't feel they sounded like the M2s Pro either. Has my hearing changed that much??? Just disregard my old arse ears.... It might have come down to the boosted pina gain (which hurt my ears with any volume and sort of drown out all the other properties???), but listening to them now, I don't find them as bad as they were in that area even.
> 
> Now that I have them back in my ears, I STILL stand by my (original) recommendation. They sound very good for budget buds. Indeed, much better than I remember (and I have always liked them anyhow). They obviously don't get much playtime with having the likes of the Yinman 2.0 600, FiiO FF3, FF5, etc...


Previously I recommended Eb2s for those for find yiman 2.0 too expensive.

However, I came across a number or complaint about eb2s being to bright, maybe they change the driver into cheaper one without disclosing the information.

So now, I no longer recommend EB2S due to this inconsistency.


----------



## samandhi

Gifting said:


> I visited my grandma and uncle this past weekend. I brought my earbud collection (or most of it) for my uncle to demo. He mentioned he was interested in listening to earbuds. The earbuds I brought were:
> 
> 
> Yincrow X6 (bass port open)
> ...


WOW! That is a lot of gear to audition in a weekend... LOL Very nice!


----------



## samandhi

syazwaned said:


> Previously I recommended Eb2s for those for find yiman 2.0 too expensive.
> 
> However, I came across a number or complaint about eb2s being to bright, maybe they change the driver into cheaper one without disclosing the information.
> 
> So now, I no longer recommend EB2S due to this inconsistency.


That is pretty sad to think about if that is what they did. Heck the buds were only $20(ish) to begin with. The need for greed over quality just gets me.... Companies that do stuff like that must not realize that they are stepping on their own feet just to make a quick (extra) buck. But in the long-term people will remember stuff like this.


----------



## Tromick

samandhi said:


> They could be considered smooth if you aren't sensitive to pina gain boost (like I am). I would actually not call them warm, and I would say that they are actually fairly aggressive overall. I also don't think they sound anything like what @Tromick is describing. It IS possible that they are defective (maybe the cable???). Or it also is possible that NiceHCK has changed something about them, and the newer tuning is different. Or maybe you are having a fitment issue? Have you tried them in multiple sources?
> 
> To me the closest comparison (with the set I have) is the Smabat M2s Pro (which is to say that they are a bit less refined, but sound good overall). Sorry that they sound bad to your ears. I also think that I might have been (at least) one person to have recommended them to you. This being based on my experience with them and reviews you can find on Head-Fi also (which are much more favorable and don't really match what you are hearing for some reason).
> 
> While I have not heard them, I have not read too many favorable reviews on the Snow Lotus (though YMMV once again). Maybe if you are looking for budget buds, you might give the Yincrow X6 a try?! I also have not heard those, but from everything I have read, they punch in at much higher than their price point.





syazwaned said:


> I have smabat m2s pro, and I found eb2s is more relax and warmer. My eb2s is more a like to Zen 2.0 than smabat m2s pro.
> 
> hurm...Maybe I pair eb2s with very warm source.





baskingshark said:


> The EB2S doesn't sound like that, as a few other consumers can attest to above. It sounds thick and analoguish. I find them to lie on the warmer side of the spectrum.
> 
> Could it be a fitting issue? If the fit is bad, the mid-bass is deemphasized and the treble can be more prominent.
> Other possibility is QC issue or NiceHCK went to do a retune/different drivers.
> ...





samandhi said:


> Hmmmm. Maybe I also have a different set than others, if you both are hearing them as warm???? When did you two get your set? I got mine as a mystery grab bag off of AE from the NiceHCK store before they were actually released. Or maybe My memory is faulty. I will need to listen to these again to make sure.
> 
> Edit: I feel the need to apologize to you @syazwaned for contradicting you. I just put them back into my ears and you are right. They do indeed present as warmer. I haven't listened to them for a long time, and when I did, to me they did indeed sound a lot like the M2s Pro. Matter of fact, I remember @RikudouGoku debating with me at that time that he didn't feel they sounded like the M2s Pro either. Has my hearing changed that much??? Just disregard my old arse ears.... It might have come down to the boosted pina gain (which hurt my ears with any volume and sort of drown out all the other properties???), but listening to them now, I don't find them as bad as they were in that area even.
> 
> Now that I have them back in my ears, I STILL stand by my (original) recommendation. They sound very good for budget buds. Indeed, much better than I remember (and I have always liked them anyhow). They obviously don't get much playtime with having the likes of the Yinman 2.0 600, FiiO FF3, FF5, etc...





syazwaned said:


> Previously I recommended Eb2s for those for find yiman 2.0 too expensive.
> 
> However, I came across a number or complaint about eb2s being to bright, maybe they change the driver into cheaper one without disclosing the information.
> 
> So now, I no longer recommend EB2S due to this inconsistency.



At the end of my original comment you can see that I have tried with different sources. 20Hz-25kHz frequency response was warning I have not cared enough I guess. It was obivious. 

To people say which it is warm, if I push them to my ears yes they sound warm like my all previous earbuds MX80, MX170, MX365, TC300 and more. But it still sounds recessed at mid-side like MX470. The previous earbuds were sounding more like audition of football stadium when I pushed them towards to my ears. 

We cannot call this earbud flat at mids or natural in anyway. It sounds also dark when you push it to your ears, yes, but it sounds toooooo unnatural, fake.

I *hated *it.


----------



## samandhi

Tromick said:


> At the end of my original comment you can see that I have tried with different sources. 20Hz-25kHz frequency response was warning I have not cared enough I guess. It was obivious.
> 
> To people say which it is warm, if I push them to my ears yes they sound warm like my all previous earbuds MX80, MX170, MX365, TC300 and more. But it still sounds recessed at mid-side like MX470. The previous earbuds were sounding more like audition of football stadium when I pushed them towards to my ears.
> 
> ...


Then they HAD to have changed the driver in this one. I can definitively say that the mids are NOT recessed at all on these (though I also wouldn't call them super mid forward either). If I were you, I might be so bold as to writing to NiceHCK and asking them if they changed the drivers in these. 

Hopefully you will find the right set for your ears?!  Do let us know if/when you do? As for myself, I would be curious to hear from you on this.


----------



## Gifting

samandhi said:


> WOW! That is a lot of gear to audition in a weekend... LOL Very nice!


Weekend…..more like 2-3 hours. Haha 

He quickly discarded with sound signatures he didn’t like. I think the RY4S plus and Chitty Store earbud were his most disliked, he spent the least time listening to those.


----------



## Carpet

Gifting said:


> Weekend…..more like 2-3 hours. Haha
> 
> He quickly discarded with sound signatures he didn’t like. I think the RY4S plus and Chitty Store earbud were his most disliked, he spent the least time listening to those.


So sort of like watching Crinacle unboxings then "Junk"... "Meh"... "Has potential" (rinse and repeat).


----------



## wolfen68

Gifting said:


> Weekend…..more like 2-3 hours. Haha
> 
> He quickly discarded with sound signatures he didn’t like.


Sounds like earbud speed dating...


----------



## Sam L

samandhi said:


> They could be considered smooth if you aren't sensitive to pina gain boost (like I am). I would actually not call them warm, and I would say that they are actually fairly aggressive overall. I also don't think they sound anything like what @Tromick is describing. It IS possible that they are defective (maybe the cable???). Or it also is possible that NiceHCK has changed something about them, and the newer tuning is different. Or maybe you are having a fitment issue? Have you tried them in multiple sources?
> 
> To me the closest comparison (with the set I have) is the Smabat M2s Pro (which is to say that they are a bit less refined, but sound good overall). Sorry that they sound bad to your ears. I also think that I might have been (at least) one person to have recommended them to you. This being based on my experience with them and reviews you can find on Head-Fi also (which are much more favorable and don't really match what you are hearing for some reason).
> 
> While I have not heard them, I have not read too many favorable reviews on the Snow Lotus (though YMMV once again). Maybe if you are looking for budget buds, you might give the Yincrow X6 a try?! I also have not heard those, but from everything I have read, they punch in at much higher than their price point.


Yeah the x6 are one of my favorite earbuds. Excellent bud.


----------



## Sam L

baskingshark said:


> Snow Lotus isn't very good IMO. Am putting it up for sale LOL.


I had one ages ago and remember that it wasn't very good at all. I can't find my snow lotus 1+ commemorative, but I seem to recall that model was better?


----------



## Tromick (Thursday at 5:47 PM)

Tromick said:


> NiceHCK EB2S has arrived. Too *unhappy.*
> 
> First of all, the things I will say is completely personal. The thing I don't like can be your favorite, who knows?! But sound-wise all the things are true. This is done in first day without burn-in so take it with grain a salt.
> 
> ...


FAAEAL Snow-Lotus 1.0 is arrived. I suggest you to read my NiceHCK EB2S journey. (There can be some edit.)
This text is written in first day without burn-in. The things I hate can be your favorite but this does not mean whole experience is false. I am just typing what I hear. Again, this is done without burn-in. I have used one cushion.

*Bass: *Sub-bass is touching gently, it is there but it is very weak. You can only enjoy that sub-bass in silent situtations. Mid-bass is definately there with it's being emphasized. It has mid-bass thump so it feels very *warm. *Upper-bass can be blended with low-mids.

*Mid: *Mid is there. You can feel the timbre of vocals, that signature character of every individuals. There is emotion. Upper-bass low-mids blending causes a little bit *muddy* feeling. Upper-mid is heard like flat.

*Trebles: *Low-treble side is recessed, making *muddy* feeling worse in some situtations and making female vocals sound like it is given through V-shape EQ. Mid-trebles is not recessed as low-trebles but still you can feel the veil and it sounds *grainy*. Upper-trebles is almost flat but still, there is a little bit veil.

*Soundstage: *That is very standart for an earbud. That spacious-ness and airy feeling. It's either sounds like room or hall or any enviroment it's given to. It is wide but not the widest and it is acceptable.

*Depth: *Vocal echos are coming in layers rather than strong intensity of main vocals. The veil at trebles results as depthness but it could be better controlled with less unrecessed trebles and without upper-bass low-mid blending. No comment.

Overall it is a very dark and warm earbud. It could be much much better if the company were trying to improve that treble side. Grainy female vocals, cymbals can be overwhelming sometimes. Upper-bass low-mid blending make it sound like warm-blended vegetable soup in any volume levels. This needs to be revised definately. So this is means *we cannot talk about instrument seperation in any way. *(This was something that TC300 professional at.)

If you are okay to sacrifice many of clarity (not talking about sibilance or metallic sounding), this can be your next very very warm and dark earbud.


----------



## waynes world

Well, yesterday was a sad day in rock legend world with the passing of Jeff Beck. Gotta say he was one of my favorite guitarists, and from what I gather, he was a very nice human being as well. As was said a while ago in this thread, all hail Jeff Beck!


----------



## FranQL (Yesterday at 7:16 AM)

I decided to use a PK150 driver fitting it on MX500... the result is a big surprise!




And Hybrid shell version (PK150 driver)


----------



## jogawag

FranQL said:


> I decided to use a PK150 driver fitting it on MX500... the result is a big surprise!


Where did you get ?a PK150 driver fitting it on MX500?
And how is the result?


----------



## FranQL (Yesterday at 4:25 AM)

jogawag said:


> Where did you get ?a PK150 driver fitting it on MX500?
> And how is the result?


I simply used a PK150 driver, I disassembled the faceplate and adapted it to the 15.4 mm metal faceplate that you see in the image (in the faceplate there is an adjustment that if you want to do it I will explain to you as always), the rest of the adjustments were made in the shell.

I already liked this driver in PK shell with modifications, so I was looking to remove warmth from it, and I have achieved it. It's not an amazing or technical driver, but it's very musical and that's why I keep doing mods with it, the result is too soon to say, although now it's my preference / taste, I have to listen to it a lot more and burn it.


----------



## SuperMAG

Gifting said:


> I visited my grandma and uncle this past weekend. I brought my earbud collection (or most of it) for my uncle to demo. He mentioned he was interested in listening to earbuds. The earbuds I brought were:
> 
> 
> Yincrow X6 (bass port open)
> ...


Just A question, where Can I find this BG32


----------



## jeejack

SuperMAG said:


> Just A question, where Can I find this BG32


15.4mm 32 ohm Bass Headphone Driver Speakers N52 Strong Magnetic Drivers for MX500 with Headphone Shell
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKJ1gZG


----------



## SuperMAG

Which cable and shell you used for it.


----------



## jeejack (Yesterday at 1:37 PM)

SuperMAG said:


> Which cable and shell you used for it.


I use the black MX500 shells that you get with the drivers.
Cable
https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0ir6wO
3.5mm jack
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOHnaEA


----------



## SuperMAG

Thanks alot brother.


----------



## jeejack

SuperMAG said:


> Thanks alot brother.


You're welcome 🍻


----------

